Um uh we have a committee here which is part of the uh education and labor committee. Uh, normally we have committees in Washington, but on some occasions we like to get out away from Washington and find out what's going on
in the real world. And today we're going to have a hearing looking at 14C certificates and places like opportunities in cure like Green Valley um in which so many of our citizens
work enjoyable uh enjoyable situation from them. Uh I represent 10 counties here in the state of Wisconsin. I think seven of them right now have facilities like this and I always enjoy touring them. They have all been good facilities. I've never seen anything
that I would make any complaints about. Um we brought with us two people. We brought Burgess Owens who is a friend of mine who is a congressman from Utah and he is not aware of any facilities like this in Utah. So we're going to have to
find out about that. Some states have them and some states don't. But like I said in Wisconsin, I think we operate with about one facility for every county and uh very good. Um
um we uh we already did take a tour which is part of in addition to Congressman Owens who's going to bring back to Washington his observations. uh we have some members here from the Department of Labor and the Department of Labor has a lot of influence on the
future of facilities like that and I know in the past one time I attended a committee in Washington and a lot of the people making decisions that would determine whether these facilities were going to continue to stay open had never
toured them. But there are people running around who for whatever motivate motivation we're going to hear a little bit from them today uh don't like this [clears throat] this facility. They don't like 14C certificates and they apparently would
not mind having these these places shut down which is a true tragedy though it has happened in a couple counties around here and then uh the employees have to find somewhere else to work. Uh I have always uh liked these
facilities because not only does it provide um a paycheck for these folks and it makes them like the rest of the society, it makes them like their siblings, it makes them like their friends to go to work in the morning to come home at night to have the pride to be able to
have their own money to buy clothes or food or what have you. Um, I also think it's tremendous and that it provides a social opportunity for people that they would not have otherwise. I know people with um, uh, parents or guardians of
folks in these situations worry about what will happen when someday those folks aren't around and they want very desperately for their children or wards to have a social life like everybody else does. I think for me certainly I
know when you purchase my social life revolves a little bit about uh about the people I know in Congress and the staff and it makes them feel good that the employees you saw today they can be working five or 10 or 15 years with
other employees here both management and other employees on the floor um which means they aren't alone just with their parents watching TV or what have you. So, uh, that's another huge benefit
here. Um, nobody is forced to work here and there people who, you know, like I said, if they want to shut it down, they're kind of making a choice for some of the employees here who wouldn't want that choice. And it's amazing how intelligent
the people are who work here and [clears throat] how they how it would me to be to me it would be just a very sad thing if you ever took the right to work here away from people right I mean if
people are happy working here they should be able to continue to work here we shouldn't create a situation in which um people not in their choose say I know better you shouldn't be working here you should be in day services or see what
else DVR can find for you or whatever so uh in any event I I I'm so happy to be here and uh we'll turn it over to the way these things work we'll turn them over to Congressman Owens for I guess
your opening statement [clears throat] >> thank you Glenn um uh I have the honor of u serving on education workforce with Glenn. Um he always has a word of wisdom very u measured but also very uh very
impactful for the statements he normally makes and points he makes. So I I just want to say this. I'm so thankful for this opportunity. Uh I'm going to bring a little bit of a different perspective to [clears throat] this conversation uh because I've seen the impact of an environment a culture that believes in
hard work. I grew up in one. Uh I was blessed to be raised in the 1960s, the day of KKK, Jim Crow, and segregation, but with communities that truly believed in work and merit. And the way that you command respect is by winning. Uh it was
a community that believed in um faith, family, business ownerships everywhere, um and education. And and part of that was [clears throat] you gain a sense of um pride when you go out there and you you roll up your
sleeves, you work hard, you overcome obstacles, and you give value to other people. And that's exactly what my community did. Uh from the 40s, this these are things that many Americans have not been taught. I think it's always important that I bring it up because I lived it. My dad was a was a world vet, was also a an educator for 40
years and also a business owner. Uh and that was the community I grew up in. There's a community of businesses everywhere. Legacy businesses where Speed Grocery Store, Perkins, Perkins uh uh gas station, Baker's Pharmacy, they had pride in their name. They had pride
in passing this legacy down to their kids. And the most important thing, they had pride in getting up every single day and going out and working. Now [clears throat] what happened to that great community uh that as I mentioned from the 40s and 60s led our country to growth the middle
class men from college men committed for marriage percentage entrepreneurs. What happened to that community when the um great society the war on poverty was really was a war on work happened. Everything flipped upside down. The things we see now is how can we
resurrect this great community and this great culture that I grew up in and hold on to those cultures that still are here. [clears throat] Uh we have unfortunately an ideology on the other side um that because they don't respect
capitalism because they don't understand the the concept of what comes out of that when people go out and work hard and they and they and they give to the community and they get a good name they want to give back. Uh John Deere, we were just talking about them earlier. They have moved some of their operations
elsewhere, but guess what? They still put their time and money supporting this kind of organization because they realize that the greatest [clears throat] thing that we can give as Americans is the opportunity to dream big. Everyone should have the ability to dream no matter what cards we've been
dealt. Um Glenn, we had had an idea. Let's go back and ask people where they where they spend their money. We just had a great tour and hadn't thought about that. So we spent a few minutes uh just ask what do people do with their money and it's amazing groceries, makeup, someone wants to start a
business one day. The ability to dream is is remarkable and no one should be no one should have that taken away from them. Now unfortunately those who uh want to stop programs like this they don't visit. They [clears throat] don't understand that the at the heart of the
entrepreneur, the business owner, those who do things is it is our our American way of giving back to people. That's who we are. We are the we are the society that builds great things and then we want to give back. Our legacy is what have we done to give back to our community. What have we done to give
keep a good name? Uh and [clears throat] that's that's what we have to continue to I think on our side education wise teach our kids about the concept of capitalis capitalism. Yes, it is risk-taking. Yes, it's profitm. But guess what we do? We go out there and we serve people and we give back and make
sure that everyone has the opportunity to dream and grow and feel feel selfworth. So that's what you guys do here. I want to thank you for that. Um uh there was a book that I read years ago uh called the [clears throat]
uh the five love languages. And normally I see the ladies saying, "Yeah, I've seen it. I've read it." And God said, "Huh?" Well, mine [clears throat] is mine is service. And I think that's what America really stands for. We're a country that loves to serve. Um and and when we do that, we
give people a chance to feel worth. And in this community, we have people right now that are serving. They come to work every single day and they have a chance to do little things that make them feel like I'm serving somebody. My my value, my my [clears throat] presence is a value and and that service is just
amazing uh how what it does for us. So, that being [clears throat] said, uh I'm I'm going to I guess leave my questions a little bit later on, but I want to go and go ahead and uh we'll get started. So, thank you. Thank you for you guys are doing here. We look forward to to continue representing you everything anywhere we can.
>> Sure. Now, uh a quorum is present. The committee meets today pursuant to notice. Without objection, I may recess the committee at any point. Pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements into the record may
do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. Um, and without objection, the hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material
noted during the hearing to be submitted. Today's hearing examines the benefits, opportunities, and impact that section 14C of the Fair Labor Standards Act provides to workers with disabilities. Work is not a dirty word. It's an opportunity for individuals to
receive not only income, but dignity, purpose, opportunity, engagement through their employment. Thanks to section 14C, individuals with disabilities are able to enjoy many of the benefits by having greater opportunities to join the workforce. 14C allows businesses and
nonprofits to employ workers who would otherwise be unable to find employment, often due to a severe disability and pay them a commensurate rate wage. Many organizations operating with a 14C certificate, about 93% of them are what
we call community rehabilitation programs or CRPs. These CRPS provide more than employment. They provide rehabilitation services, training, skill development, social engagement. All of which are crucial for people with disabilities to lead healthy, productive
lives. In Wisconsin, we have more than 40 employers participating as 14C organizations, most of which are CRPs. I've been told by many of these organizations without 14C, they'd likely be forced to lay off employees and close
their doors permanently. Um, I might add that I've talked today to a um one of these facilities that did close, and I don't know how typical this is. I think it's probably fairly typical. Um, well over half of the employees who work
there are either now in what they call day services, which can mean, you know, not working anyway, or just living at home. And even the like 25 or 30% who are with the DVR system in Madison, that
could mean a job and could not be. So, uh, at least in that case where they closed down the facility, the vast majority of people rather than enjoying work are just are not um critics of 14C are um
the these facilities are remarkable and among the my favorite places to live. you see so many happy individuals thriving and learning new skills as they're surrounded by their friends and a team that loves them. Um and and that's one other thing like I said I'll
stress people who work here make uh friends for sometimes decades sometimes for a lifetime. They find both friends in other people who are on the floor working or friends among the u the
management staff who you know always does a tremendous job in these places. And at least in my experience touring places like this, there's not a lot of turnover in the management staff. So you really again are finding friends for life. Um critics of 14C call for its
removal entirely. In fact, the US Department of Labor under President Biden attempted to phase out participation for employees operating under 14C's. This attempt by the Biden administration was we felt an overreach plain and simple. Uh fortunately the
rule which would have shut him down was withdrawn by the Trump administration in July. Eventually I'd like to get the department uh the secretary of labor here to tour some of these facilities there. She's told me she will. Uh there are even members on the Education and Workforce Committee actively fighting to
see 14C erased. What they do not seem to understand is erasing 14C would erase people's jobs and would take away the community and friends they love. And if they were able to get another job, those employers would be unable to provide community services and dignity afforded
their workers with disabilities under 14C. Witnesses today will discuss the importance of having continued access to 14C. They are here to advocate for workers, to represent employers, and to share their personal experience with loved ones who found opportunities in
these programs. One other anecdote I'd like to point out. I remember running into a guy who was making well under a dollar uh up in Oshkosh. He had had a a horrible injury, very bright guy, but had a horrible injury and was a
quadriplegic. And somehow in the bureaucracy, they uh took away his job from him. And like I said, there not many people working are under a dollar an hour, but he was under a dollar an hour. And I I I met with his
dad who talked about how how wildly disappoint disappointed and depressed his son became when he lost I don't know exactly what it was a 75 cent an hour job or 50 cent hour a job and I thought
it was just so tragic that somewhere in there some bureaucrat felt he didn't meet such and such a standard. Maybe it was the rule maybe not. And uh in any event for this guy who was a very sharp guy who then had I think it was a car
accident or motorcycle accident or something. Uh he he wound up so dependent on this job and it was just a tragedy and they took it away from him. In any event, today's hearing will highlight section how section 14C works and will show that it
provides opportunities for growth, stability, and social well-being for the people in need of most. Okay. Now, I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here today. Uh we'll we'll give you each five minutes to share your prepared remarks, after which
we'll have time to ask questions. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um I'll now introduce the uh four witnesses. Our first witnesses will be Barbara Leuke. Uh Miss Leuk is president and CEO of Opportunities, Inc., which
owns this facility and has have over 40 years of experience in vocational rehab. She's worked in community- based employment with 14C employees and roles ranging from intern to CEO. Her organization partners with more than 200 customer organizations throughout
Wisconsin is grounded in the motto success through service. Ms. Luke also launched a grassroots initiative in 2011 that is known as the A team, a 14 uh 10 501c4 organization with reach across
Wisconsin and the rest of the country. Our second witness is Miss Kathy Anderson Armstrong. Miss Armstrong is a local Beaver Dam resident and the proud parent of Clara who works here at Green Valley and is down syndrome. Ms. Armstrong has been an advocate for
choice and disability employment for decades for decades. Entered a bachelor's degree in elementary and special ed from the University of Northern Iowa which has assisted her in making informed decisions for Clara Miss Armstrong. Also served as the special as
a special Olympic swimming coach since 2008. Our third witness is uh Dr. Laura Owens, professor at UWM and the president of Transcend, Inc. in Rockville, Maryland. And our fourth witness is Dr. Kit Brewer, vice
president for the Coalition of the Preservation of Employment Choice in St. Louis, Missouri. I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I'm we're going to go down the line here, but you'll each have five minutes to share your remarks, after which we will
have time to ask you questions. So, as we work our way down, I'll first recognize Miss Leuk. Thank you, Congressman Growthman, Congressman Owens, and members of Cong of the Committee on Education and Workforce. Thank you for being here
today and for the opportunity to welcome you to Green Valley Enterprises in Beaverdam, Wisconsin. We call it America's heartland. I really want to thank you for bringing this out of the beltway. I spent a lot
of time up in the beltway and just have um continue to ask and ask and ask come out to the people come out to see where it's really happened, where things are happening, to feel of them, to touch them, and that you did that today. It just humbles me that you all took the
time in February to come to Wisconsin. So, I do thank you. As you know, my name is Barbara Leuk, president and CEO of this esteemed organization. I have dedicated more than 40 years to serving people with what I like to call diverse
abilities. I began my career as a community integrated employment specialist during my college internship at Opportunities Incorporated and throughout my life's work. I have seen so much dedication and
purpose and dignity of those we support that again I feel it's just humbling to be part of. I wouldn't be anywhere for 40 years if I didn't feel so connected to the people that we have the privilege to serve.
Their commitment to contributing in whatever way they are able reflects the very values at the heart of the American dream. Today I'm here to speak with you about why preserving 14C as a choice is
essential for maintaining meaningful work opportunities for so many. For decades, 14C has been a powerful tool that opens doors for individuals with significant and severe and I want to say
it again, severe disabilities. people who are too often overlooked or forgotten. We wholeheartedly support community integrated employment and we work tirelessly to help people achieve it. I
myself directly supervise our community integrated employment program as the president and CEO of this company. So that tells you our commitment to making people achieve their choice and their highest potential.
But the reality is this. Not everyone can succeed in traditional employment settings even with additional support. Eliminating 14C does not remove their barriers. It removes their choices, their opportunities, and in many cases
their sense of purpose. In the 2025 GAO, they studied states that eliminated 14C. One of the most troubling findings was the lack of tracking
where are the people that no longer work in states that have 14C. We do simply do not know where many individuals went or what happened to them after these options disappeared. That certainly should alarm all of us.
When 14C opportunities vanish, so do the communities of work, friendship, and belonging that people depend on. Even more concerning, under current rules, individuals who try many times community employment and are unsuccessful often
cannot return to their prevoked services. Trying becomes a bit a gamble with consequences that just cannot be reversed. When I ask organizations that eliminated 14C, and I've talked to many, many of
them, as you can tell, I'm quite passionate about this. What happened to those with the greatest challenges and support needs? The answer I hear far too often is, we don't serve that population anymore.
That response should leave a pit in all of our stomach because we keep pushing them down the road, down the road until no longer will there be any option for them. Here at Green Valley Enterprises, when
leaders visit, they are something real and irreplaceable that they see. Meaningful work. Work that brings pride. Work that creates community. work that provides purpose at each person's pace
and ability. The alternative, staying home or spending days without meaningful activities, stripping away opportunities to contribute, to grow, to stay healthy, and to belong.
Many times in a community employment job that's two hours a week for them versus a service that's 35 hours a week. You are here today because you understand that the dignity of work matters. You have the power to ensure
that our most vulnerable citizens are not pushed aside in pursuit of a onesizefitsall approach to employment. Preserving choice is not a step backward. is a commitment to ensuring that everyone has a place in our economy and our
communities. And because it is not our choice, it's not the right choice. Thank you for your dedication to the people who rely on these opportunities the most. Thank you. >> Thank you very much.
Good morning. My name is Kathy Armstrong and I'm the proud mother of Clara, our 37year-old daughter who has Down syndrome. I have a degree in elementary and special education and have taught for 40 years. My background has helped
our family to make informed decisions for Clara and I have been fortunate to advocate for her best interests. Our family is deeply involved in the disability community. I coach Special Olympics swimming, my husband coaches basketball and we volunteer throughout
the year with the Dodge County Special Olympics. Through this work, I have seen firsthand the challenges that many individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities face when trying to find and keep
employment, especially in our rural communities. Many young adults lose their community jobs because they weren't fast enough or the job just didn't need them anymore. They end up at home for most of the week losing
confidence, purpose, and structure. Because of WA WA, [clears throat] individuals cannot work in a 14C work center until age 26. For many, that means years of struggling and failing in
community jobs that are not suited to their developmental abilities. Why should they have to fail first? Why waste years when a meaningful appropriate work opportunity already
exists with 14C opportunities for our daughter. 14C is very vital. It provides it provides her with a job that she can perform successfully at her own
pace. And I want to emphasize every day, all day, Clara takes enormous pride in going to work. She loves her co-workers. She thrives daily on structure uh on the daily structure and she feels just like
her siblings who go to work every day. This sense of normal worth work ethic really matters. We have visited Washington DC and has spoken with several members of Congress, including Congressman Rothman, our strongest
advocate for individuals with disabilities. Clara has shared her story with pride and the lawmakers listened. We speak today not just for our daughter, but for all of her friends and for the most vulnerable population of workers who
deserve to have their voice and their choice heard. If 14C ends, Clara and many like her will lose the opportunity to work every day. At best, she may find a 5 to eight
hour per week job, something that she's experienced twice before, but both jobs ended. But what happens during the rest of the 30 hours of the week? We have lived through the pandemic and
we know the consequences of isolation and inactivity. I am proud to be a member of the A team, a family grassroots organization that works to promote choice for individuals with de developmental and intellectual
disabilities. To our family, Clara's 14C work center is a community job. It truly is a community job. Local businesses send meaningful work to our center and she
contributes to the community just like every other worker. We cannot allow people with intellectual and developmental disabilities to move to move backward to the 60s with no choice, no voice, and no purpose. States
that have eliminated 14C cannot show where all the displaced workers ended up. probably because there is no job or opportunities available. Today, I urge lawmakers,
visit a 14C center. See the pride, the joy, the dignity, the purpose that these jobs provide. Do not take away, the one reliable path to success that so many people depend
on. We need 14C to continue and to be expanded so every individual with ID has the opportunity to find dignity, purpose, and success in the job that
fits them the best. Thank you for your time and compassion. [applause] >> [applause] >> Thank you. Uh, now we'll call on Dr. Owens. Thank you, Representative Growthman, Representative Owens for the opportunity
to speak with you today. I'm Laura Owens. I'm a professor at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee and also the president of transcend a community-based organization that provides employment services for people with disabilities and community participation.
Subminimum wage is not just a disability policy issue. It's an economic issue and a choice issue. Section 14C of the Fair Labor Standards Act was enacted in 1938. It allows employers to pay workers with disabilities far below minimum wage
based on subjective assessments of productivity. While this policy once may have been framed as a pathway to work, the evidence is now overwhelming, it no longer reflects our workforce, our economy, or our values. Studies
analyzing 14C certificate data show that nearly half the workers are paid under these certificates less than 350 an hour. And that's not a functioning labor market. It's a wage exemption based solely on disability. And it produces
predictable outcomes. Poverty, segregation, and lost economic potential. Minimum wage is a floor, not a measure of an individual's output. In every other part of the labor market, differences in productivity are
addressed through job design, technology, supervision, and support, not through wage exemptions. When people with disabilities are paid competitive wages, the economic impact is immediate and local. Higher take-home pay
increases consumer spending, strengthens local economies, and reduces reliance on public services. In my experience, families aren't advocating for poverty wages. They're expressing fear. Fear of isolation, fear of idle days, and fear
that systems will fail their sons and daughters. And those fears are fundamentally about what replaces 14C, not about the wages themselves. Supporters of subminimum wage often argue that some people with more significant disabilities can't succeed
in the labor market, but the data doesn't support that. Subminimum wage environments actually limit informed choice. Workers are often placed early and permanently into segregated settings with few opportunities to explore
alternatives and build transferable skills. Informed choice requires exposure to community jobs, experiences in the community, and supports aligned with an individual's strengths, interests, and conditions for success.
When people with disabilities are given options, they overwhelmingly choose competitive integrated employment. If subminimum wage worked as intended, we would see people regularly transitioning to competitive employment. But decades of research shows the
opposite, that participation in segregated subminimum wage settings actually reduces the likelihood that someone will move into competitive integrated employment. States that have eliminated subminimum wage have seen increases in employment among people
with disabilities. A multi-state study across eight states found that employment among adults with significant intellectual disabilities increased by 14%. And in Vermont, the first state that fully eliminated section 14C rose by
38%. When the wage floor is restored, expectations rise and outcomes improve. We also need to listen to workers who lived this experience. David Pino from Wisconsin earned $48 for two weeks of
work. After leaving that segregated setting, he received seven raises in seven years and eventually bought his own home. Cindy Bentley tells me about her experience earning $45 every two weeks in a subminimum wage facility
doing work that did not reflect her skills or her interests. Her first competitive paycheck was $375 for one week. And she likes to say, "I love to pay taxes." Momentum is already moving at both the
state and federal levels. As of 2024, 15 states and the District of Columbia have eliminated subminimum wage. In December of 2024, the US Department of Labor proposed phasing out section 14C. Federal law also reflects this
direction. The Workforce Innovation Opportunity Act made it clear that subminimum wage should be an exception, not an expectation. The proposed transformation of competitive integrated employment act builds on this framework by phasing out
subminimum wage while providing resources to help states, providers, and employers redesign systems around competitive integrated employment with appropriate supports. Ending subminimum wage is not about removing choice. It's
about expanding it. Ending subminimum wage does not eliminate services. It changes where and how those services are delivered. Ending subminimum wage does not eliminate work. It restores value. And finally, disability should never be
the reason someone is paid less for their labor. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Mr. Brewer. Good morning. Uh, I'd like to thank the committee for holding this hearing and I' I'd like to give special uh, respect
to uh, the two congressmen who made the trip here. Uh, the tour this morning uh, puts this dialogue in an entirely different uh, location. We're we're no longer talking about a theoretical uh, conversation. We're talking about uh
a hands-on experience and we got to see a number of workers uh this morning having a successful experience. Um I I my name is Kit Brewer. Uh I maintain a business called Project CU in
St. Louis, Missouri. Uh, and I will say just a a bit about Missouri because I think that the differences state-to-state uh need to make this a best practice conversation, not a conversation about elimination.
In Missouri, we have 86 uh workshops, uh, extended employment centers that employ about 5,000 individuals. And I'll give you just a few facts about Project CU. This last month, the average wage at
Project CU was over $10 an hour. The the wage up until this time uh in the year to date is about 8:30. Now, that's not standard. That is not required. But what it does uh impress upon everyone here
that the use of subminimum wage is an inaccurate statement. The special minimum wage created by the FSLA uh 14C regulation is based upon the productivity level of individuals. It's
a highly regulated process in order to form that wage and it is entirely possible for that wage to rise above and below both federal and state minimum wage. And so even though this is a federally
regulated program, there are state-by-state differences, regional differences, community standard differences that have caused this program to develop in many different ways across the nation. And that's the conversation that all of us need to be
having. one of best practice, one about barrier elimination and not uh drawing a line about whether this program should or should not close. I will also say that that the use of the term segregation is a popular term among our
opponents and in my experience the individuals serving served and employed in these programs are a wide demographic. If you measure any other demographic uh measurement other than
intellectual disabilities, it is a diverse population. And the fact that any population would seek to find employment where they are respected, where they are amongst peers and where they have the services needed for their
success uh should not be denigrated and that choice should be respected. uh 16 states have currently eliminated 14C certificates. There are others that are progressing uh toward that elimination
uh or have taken steps to limit it. And I think we should all ask the question why. uh that that can be an ideological question that can be based on a faulty assumption that every individual is both
capable of transition into that competitive marketplace and that every individual desires to make that transition. Both of those statements are false and I appreciate my colleagues thoughts that uh data would disagree
with that statement but data is precisely what is missing in this space. There is not any uh data to show that these transitions have been successful and in fact the 2025 GAO study shows
very much the opposite. First and foremost, many states questioned by the GAO uh to supply data were unable to supply data at all and declined the invitation. The two states, Colorado and Oregon, who did participate were unable
to find more than 1,000 individuals out of a population of 2,000 who had lost their jobs. So 50% there was no data tracking period. And of the other 100 in the two states, 39 to 46% made a
successful transition. So the only data that is available says that less than 25% of individuals forced out of their jobs were able to make that transition. I don't think we can look at that in any
way as a success. I think we have got to mandate a nationwide collection of data. We've got to work on terms such as segregation, such as subminimum wage, and even the definition of what successful transition actually looks
like. And again, I I thank the committee for the opportunity. [applause] Thank you. Under uh committee rule nine, we'll now uh uh question the witnesses. Under committee rule 9B, I'll authorize
members present to ask questions for longer than five minutes. We usually go five minutes, but uh we're going to go 10 minutes here for myself and Representative Owens. So, I now recognize myself for 10 minutes. Uh Mr. Brewer, I I found your testimony kind of
interesting. Earlier today, I talked to um a facility that had closed their work floor, and they didn't give me the exact numbers. They didn't keep track of everybody, but somebody in management there speculated
that of the people they had working on their floor, it was kind of interesting. It was kind of what your larger study that you cited showed that if people were no longer working on their floor, half were in day services, which of course is not the value of work. It's sitting there watching TV or whatever.
25% were just at home. And she estimated 24% or 25% were in the state uh uh rehabilitation uh vocational programs, which who knows what that means.
Um, I'm going to ask you, uh, citing the Colorado and Oregon studies, uh, which they did eliminate access to 14C and take that freedom away from these people, uh, fewer than half the people surveyed were able to transition
successfully from 14C to other types of employment, including competitive integrated employment. Um, from your experience, what do you think? uh why do you think that that was the case?
So few people that they could find. So I I I think there's several parts to that question. Uh as you said uh in in your description when you interviewed the uh the provider uh many of us are having to kind of spitball that data
because the data doesn't exist. Uh there are many reasons for that that data problem as we move from one funding stream to another. I it is difficult to follow an individual. Uh there are privacy and HIPPA concerns involved. But
one way or another we have got to break down that wall so that any decisions that we make on this program are informed and databased. But what is happening to these individuals and again most of us have to be somewhat anecdotal in this is that
not everyone wants to go to a dehabilitation sit situation. Dehabilitation is fantastic for individuals where that's a good fit. uh perhaps someone who is aging out of an employment program, perhaps someone
whose skills and and uh desires do not align with employment. But for someone who has a desire for employment to be forced into a dehabilitation situation is is simply a negative experience.
Additionally, we have to look at the service hours. So if if the employment situation had offered 30 or up 35 hours say uh a week for that individual, they now have to find the same coverage
of services in in other programs. Uh a variety of funding circumstances, eligibility, or just open staffed slots can prevent them from making a clean transition that will send some individuals home. They may not like the
choice. And when they lose services or lose hours uh in service, sometimes family members then have to take on a role as caregiver. Uh that causes them to rearrange their own lifestyles, their
own work schedules or even capabilities. And that can add additional burden uh both in terms of the expense of programmings and the loss of income. not only for the individual who has lost his job but for the family that then has to
convert theirs to services. So it's a very complex situation. I I think that everyone should be able to choose their their own dreams goals uh along the way. uh and I
think all of us can agree that we want individuals to reach their highest capability levels and it's it's a question of what that capability looks like and what opportunities are there another followup question when when [snorts] I deal with people who who
disagree with me uh they throw out statistics of the number of people who are working and sometimes if you dig down a little bit more they will find people who are working six or eight hours a week and say they found a job in
the community, which of course is not the same thing as other people who are working maybe 30 or 40 hours a week. Um could you comment on the degree to which people who do studies and want to get rid of places
like this um kind of say we found a job in the community and that job is just a six-hour job. So the the uh opponents of this uh work opportunity tend to focus on two subjects. They focus on the hourly wage
specifically and they focus on this concept of community integration versus segregation. Outside of that space, there is are rarely measurements taken for whether an individual moved from a 30-hour a week
opportunity uh to a 2-hour or 6-hour opportunity. In my experience, many individuals uh work a lesser daily shift uh in competitive employment than they do if they were working for our facility. They
also work fewer days a week. And I have heard many examples as low as that two or 4hour uh work schedule. Um certainly there are success stories but again that that's that's a data question that uh we
we really do need to address. >> Okay. Um I I'll give you another question. One of the reasons why I think uh some of these statistics are a little bit off and maybe some people in this room aren't going to like what I'm going to say, but
I know a goal of places like Opportunities Inc. is frequently to find jobs in the community and maybe you'll wind up having people work 10 hours a week in the community and 20 hours a week at Opportunities
Inc. Um, I once at the request of a facility had gotten rid of their 14C certificates was asked to shadow someone who had a job in the community.
And she was a very nice person and like so many of these folks, they make you feel good just being around them, you know, big smile on their face and and showing us what she did. Um, but then I talked to the owner of the company that took her in
and I know the owner who is a tremendous, wonderful Christian woman and she clearly viewed it as her um kind of Christian obligation because she was told this is what we should do. We should find a job for can't remember
her name. Uh but when I talked to the owner in her office, the job that this gal had was really not pro providing a lot. In other words, the owner felt kind of like giving to the United Way or something
that I am a good person, so I should find something for this woman to do. But her management staff really didn't feel um well well they felt that what they were doing is to being nice providing a
make work job and uh and as the result she was not going to progress above 12 or 13 hours in in this new job because it was a charity job. Um, and like I said, everybody was happy
that day, but I don't think even the people who found her that job understood really what was going on there. And could you could you comment on that anecdote? Maybe people won't like that, but that's that's what I found.
>> I I would start by saying that every situation and every individual is unique. There are many organizations and businesses that have a willingness uh and a charitable interest in participating in disability employment
and I I commend them. But I I'll I'll give you a simple example that I as a as a provider employ 120 men and women with intellectual disabilities and all 120 of them are available for hire by the
competitive integrated uh community today, tomorrow and next week. And there are very few businesses that are able to take that population on and give that population the services and supports
that are required. And so I think I think we have to again commend that uh individual for making the attempt but I don't know that those are real work situations. The other thing that we have to look at is that the disability
community itself is hugely diverse and broth broad cross-sections of the disability community uh does work competitive employment at a high level and has skills that congressman you and
I will will never have. That's not the population that we are serving. And over the course of many decades, uh, sheltered employment is not the 1938 version of the FSLA. It has also evolved
and changed. Things like the ADA and WEOA and societal change have left behind in that group. uh a a group of individuals that requires more specialized services, a little bit more
job security, and quite frankly uh an empathy that is not available in the competitive marketplace. And I think we we need to stop having this debate take on this monolithic view that one disability is
like another and and they're very different. They're very individual and it just needs to be a conversation in that fashion. >> Thank you. Uh now I'll call on my good friend Congressman Owens. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Um taking
notes as as I was I was talking. So I'm just going to frame my questions around a few things I'm going to say right now. Uh first of all, we have to understand that uh DC is a very heartless place. It's a place of bureaucrats that don't have empathy, don't have compassion, will never take a
a walk around that we just took and see there are people that have needs that we should be addressing very special needs and they're very happy because we're now focused on those needs. uh be DC's in place is a place where people will say
whatever happened to those folks I don't know I don't care they moved on and we need to break that cycle it's heartless that's not compassionate and I seen again I said it before because uh when the great society went
from work to welfare it destroyed a community of people that I grew up in uh and and and by the way to use the word segregated I think is an unsult to these folks. Um, [applause] [applause]
you see a very diverse group of people that are happy they're producing and given a chance to show they have selfworth and only thing that they have in common is they were dealt at heart a a difficult card. Period. Everything else is so unique and so different and so American. So, we need to make sure
that we're calling these people out that use words like they get emotions up to get us angry when it has nothing to do with segregation. I dealt with segregation and I can tell you guys what we have here is nothing close to that. So, I just want to make that point. Uh, Mr. B,
first I really appreciate your insight. Um, uh, I'm going [clears throat] to ask a few questions. Now I understand that in the legislation your state in Missouri adopted a bipartisan joint resolution supporting employment choice of workers with disabilities. This include both
competitive integrated employment and 14C employment which is choice. Uh why why does continued success to 14C's have so much bipartisan agreement in a state like Wisconsin and Missouri? Well, I I will say that both uh
Wisconsin and Missouri uh have strong state associations, strong advocacy group, and so the information regarding sheltered employment is very much out there in the community. Um when Missouri passed its resolution in 2017,
uh it was in full support of 14C as a part of an employment continuum. Uh since then we have passed two more uh bipartisan bills that that arranged uh how the program was funded and in fact
passed a bill that would allow the state department of education uh to supply a special minimum wage certificate should 14C go away at a federal level. Now we hope not to to utilize that because we're in this for
uh the much broader community. I will say that the reason behind all of that is in Missouri there are 86 shops uh located around the the the state. You probably cannot go more than say 45
minutes in any direction. And so you have what is very much a local community-based business uh an organization that is part of that community both in in metro and rural Missouri. and our elected officials at
the state level, most of them have what they would consider a hometown shop. So, they have personal relationships, whether those are family relationships, uh whether those are friends or neighbors that have individuals or uh
providers involved in that workshop process. And I would say that the the federal delegation in Missouri, many of whom came up through the state house, also share that. I I believe there are instances around the country where that ex exists as well, but this this should
never be a partisan issue. Um, we're talking about data earlier and I I really appreciate your your comments, but I was just reading it in some of the notes we had. Um, it dealt with a study found in Maine that eliminated the program and they found
out that twothirds of those with significant disabilities were unable to find jobs. twothirds. Um, and I guess people in Maine are probably saying the same thing. I don't know and I don't care because that's a lot of folks who had opportunities and
no longer do. And the state doesn't seem to be concern concerned about that. Um, Mr. Be 16 states have eliminated access to 14C certification certificates or otherwise required employees to pay a full minimum wage. While this might sound reasonable to some, uh, can you
describe the potential unequ unintended unintended consequences by eliminating these 14C jobs? You've kind of dealt with it before, but if you wouldn't mind expand expanding on that a little bit, appreciate it. >> Yes. So the the main study uh I don't have
the dates in front of me but we're we're talking 2012 2014 era I believe and it is one of of several studies that shows similar data. Um, and you know, I I
think all of us are are really wishing that we had better uh data resources uh everywhere we look. As far as as folks uh thinking that out of sight, out of mind concept, I I want
to take us away from 14C uh just for a little more historical spec uh perspective. And if you look at disability law over not just decades but centuries, uh there there were a collection of laws
collectively known as ugly laws. And the the idea was that it was better to take individuals with disabilities out of the public eye uh to institutionalize. Thankfully, we have moved well beyond
that time frame. And so in in this entire disability employment and services conversation, we have to acknowledge that while we are progressing, we do not have opportunities for every single part of
the disability community. 14C currently serves what you might call a niche uh cross-section of that group. uh it is no more than perhaps 150 to 200,000 individuals if all of the states
were participating. There are fewer than that participating at this time. And in 2024, 45.8 million Americans uh were were recognized as having a disability. So we're talking about less
than 1/ half of 1% of the overall disability community that is focused on this program. So we we need to to determine exactly who it is that we serve and employ and seek to give them a successful opportunity and it's it's
just as simple as that. >> Okay. Have question Barbara for you and then I'd like to ask one a little one other question. Uh, Miss U Leoo, uh, your your written testimony states that, uh, too many individuals with disabilities struggle to find and keep jobs in community-based competitive
integrated employment, CI z CIE. Would 14C centers like Green Valley serve as an alternate option for those who are unable to remain in the CIE? So I I want to be really clear um by saying
the CRP community, the community rehabilitation programs extremely support competitive integrated employment and most of us are the ones that provide all the community integrated employment.
So when people come against us and say, "Well, you're you segregate, you isolate, whatever, it's it's just really really an inaccurate statement because for not the CRP community,
no C very little CIE would be happening. We also subsidized it through. But I think what's really really important because I I think I what I had said is that I started out in community integrated employment and I was like Dr.
Owens. thought that was the end all to be all. And I was a 24year-old young girl coming into a staffing with a parent and I'm telling the parent that their child should be in CIE and I was
adamant about it until the parent broke basically broke down and said you don't understand why we don't want our child in in community integrated employment. They self harm. They harass.
If they get upset, they'll hit someone over the head with a pull. Okay? And it really made me think, I don't know better than the p family member that raised their child. And it and it made such an impact on my life
that I believe people who want community integrated employment, all the power to you. You should go through it. You should do it. And if it doesn't succeed, we should have places for individuals to go that they feel another level of
success. And that's where the community rehab programs really are so important. And I I I want to read a quote that I I have from um one of the founding fathers of the A Team um grassroots effort. His
name is Rick Wilson and he's the father to Christopher and in a letter he sent to the assistant secretary um Hulker at ODEP. He says, "I have a son with Down syndrome who is significantly limited both intellectually and physically. Should
his 14C program go away, he will be heartbroken. There's no way Christopher will achieve CIE. I know this because he tried a couple of times already with no success. And I know my son and I know
his abilities better than anyone. And that's the approach that I believe we should all take. This the parents, the loved ones, they know their family member. We can try to advance as much as possible, but at the end of the day, it's about choice. Thank
you. Thank you. [applause] I have I have one one other question with with with Kathy. Um and your written testimony, you mentioned um that you have both a personal and professional experience in disability employment issues uh with your daughter who normally works here but can't be
here because she's a little under. Um can you say a little bit more about about Clara and uh her colleagues and the value of to them of 14C? >> Yes. Um yes um our daughter you know has had a couple
of opportunities to work in the community and um those jobs just didn't they ended you know for um the employer needed somebody different and for whatever reason but we were grateful that we always had
our CRP Green Valley to fall back on. Um the thing that is so important and I think for everybody with a disability is is the fact that they can go to work every single day. They can um be here
all day. And I have seen through Special Olympics and through Clara's friends and through the community um many people that do find a job in the community and it's wonderful. They can handle it.
they can do it. They can go and do that job, but they work six hours a week. So then I'm baffled. Okay. So the government says, "Oh, we have a community job. Check them off the list.
They're working in the community." Okay, but where are they the other 30 hours of the week? What are they doing? What resources do they have? Are they just sitting in their apartment
watching TV, whatever? Are what are they doing? What what success do they have? What can they have to enhance their life as a citizen? And I feel that that is such
a shame that that it's um such a push. Get in the community. Get in the community. And I know some of Clara's friends are nonverbal and those jobs are really hard to find.
Those jobs that would be perfect for that person are a needle in a hay stack. And when you're in rural America, in a small town, they're really hard to find and they're really hard to find um the
right employer, the right person. And even if you do find that, and I'll just I don't mean to be rambling, but um one of the jobs that my our daughter had, she found a lot of success in it, and she was happy. She loved being at this daycare.
But the teacher that was there helped her and made it successful, gave her positive feedback, um and encouraged her to be successful at that job. And it was a perfect partnership. It wasn't out of
pity. It wasn't out of a charity job or whatever. It was a perfect scenario. But what happened is that teacher left and a different person came in and that person
treated our daughter very badly and it was not a good community situation to be in for her or for anybody around. Um, I don't want to go into details of the sad story that happened, but we had to pull
her out of that situation because it wasn't healthy for her. And I look at just that little job and I think about, okay, Mr. Growthman talked about, you know, the person, well, we're just we
got her here for charity. Okay, well, is that really a real job then? you know, if we want people to be in the community, and I think that there are several people that can find success and to do that and more power to it, and I think that's great. But if you have a
population of people that can't handle that for whatever their disability reason is, they should be able to look at these opportunities and say, "I have a job. I have somewhere I can go to
every single day and work every day just like my mom and dad, my siblings, my cousins, everybody else, they can still have that pride and joy. Sometimes I think when I look at some of Clara's friends that do have jobs in the
community and I know a few years ago one of her friends was so excited, I got a job. I got a job at a local restaurant folding silverware. And I said, "That is so awesome. When do you go to work?" I
go to work every day from 8 to 9. 8 to 9. 1 hour a day, 5 days a week, 5 hours. And she was excited that she had that community job.
And whoever got her that community job checked her off the list. She's working at the community. Check her off. Add her to the 100% of people that have found 100% employment in the community. And she's working 5 hours a week. And I
said, "Well, what are you doing the rest of the time?" And she said, "Well, I'm I don't know. I just sit home. I take the taxi back." And I said,"Well, do you think that you could continue to go back to Green
Valley to work? Could you do both jobs? Have you asked?" And she, her first response was, "Well, they told me, I can't go back. I have to just work in the community." And I said, "I need you to talk to your
dad and you ask your dad if you can do both. Have your dad check it out." She did and she is doing both. But to me, that's where some of the misconception comes in and the data and all this. You
know, I'm sure she was checked off a list and said she had a community job, but she only worked 5 hours. That part wasn't said. You were led to believe that she was working somewhere 30, 35 to 40 hours a week, and that wasn't the case.
But I look at, you know, the disability population and there are so many people that have so many high success stories of being a disabled person with um I don't want to I don't want to
degrade anybody, but I'm speaking from my heart. They have a community job and they do well and they deserve it. But you have this low end of the population that if you ask anybody out there today, do you have a job? Yes, I do. Where do
you work? Green Valley. That's their job. I don't care if they're only putting together a hundred pieces or they're only whatever their job is. That is their job. That's their pride. That's
their joy. Nobody asks, you know, are you bothered by not having, you know, the amount of money? Because if you really get into all of that, you're opening a whole can of worms about
um SSI and other funding resources that they get and then they lose that. And you know, there's other things on the docket that could be talked about that need to be changed in the disability money, how how much money they can have or not
have. Um, that needs to be raised as well. But um my point is you know it's time to move forward and quit saying 14 C is from 19 whatever what it came out I don't know 1930s or whatever but to look
forward to maybe there's a a new way a new and innovative way to look forward to having a balance of everybody to have a choice and an opportunity to be a contributing member of society.
And I think that's what a lot of our people feel. I'm a worker. I um have value and I can give back to the community. >> Thank Thank you, Kathy. Thanks so much. [applause] Give my time back to Chairman.
>> I know I have other questions and I think uh Congressman Owens does too. So, we're going to give us both another uh uh ask a couple questions. We're going to try to hit some of the people we didn't hit as much the first time. So, I'll give myself another five minutes.
Um, uh, Miss Armstrong, I really appreciate your testimony. And like I said, it it affected me earlier today when I talked to a facility that uh, shut down their floor. And that could happen here at Green Valley someday. The
facility is still there. They're providing day services. Um but their estimate they you know was off the off the record their estimate was about 50% of the people that used to be on the floor were in day services.
25% just stayed at home and 25% were in department of vocational rehab which doesn't necessarily mean they get a job. I know two people in in uh in rehab that I've talked to. They won't even have college degrees, but they have
kind of social problems and they can't find him a job. So, I don't know how many of in this uh in this county's place uh how many of the people they they had to lay off, how many found jobs, but I have a feeling it was, you
know, 10 or 15%. Uh if they if they got rid of the floor, what do you think would happen to your daughter? Well, she would be very sad to lose her job. It's her job. Um, this, you know,
this crossed our mind. I think it was back in 2014 where I first, you know, we came, my husband and I and my daughter and my our other daughter came out to Green Valley for this big meeting, a letterw writing campaign because there
was a threat to N14C or to close our facility. And that was the first chance that I really took notice to really get involved and stay involved in this um mission. But we all wrote letters, you
know, explaining about how important this job was to our daughter. But at that time too, it was important to my husband and I. We were both still working. So you look at um the fact that one of us would have to totally alter
our job jobs for the future and our retirement and our um that sort of thing because we cannot leave her at home all day unattended without anybody without
any help. So, for one thing, you know, losing an opportunity to be here with a job all day, every day. Yeah. She would um we kind of saw it with the the pandemic. She's at home. Um
I'm retired now, so I was able to provide all kinds of opportunities. you know, we um didn't go places, but it's not the same. Sitting at home, doing crafts, watching TV, um whatever, you know, just trying to
fill the day is not the same as being able to say, "Go to work." And during that time of the pandemic, she was always like, "Okay, is it over? Am I going back to work tomorrow?" Meaning the pandemic, is the pan is it over? Can I go back to work tomorrow? and she did
get to go back because they did do a super job of separating everybody and keeping all those um protocols in place, you know, to come back after after the pandemic. But it
would just be such a loss and such a letdown for her because it is so important for her to be like her cousins, her siblings, neighbors. Everybody goes to work, everybody has a job. they don't just sit at home and so
it would be detrimental. >> Thank you. I I don't mean to leave Miss Owens un not not I could ask some questions. So I I should ask you a question. Um I have you gave us some anecdotal evidence of people who found
very high paying jobs and I once attended one of these hearings in the Washington area and they found a woman who was blind who was making almost nothing. Very bright woman. and I think she went to law school and uh they found a very nice job for when they adjusted
the fact. So you can get anecdotal evidence and unusual case which you have a very you know very very bright woman who was able to work and make whatever she's making $80,000 a year or something. But
that's anecdotal very rare. Uh I have a feeling most people are like uh the facility that shut down in which almost nobody is finding jobs or if they're finding jobs it's a six-hour a week job where they check the box and say we
found a job. Um in in your experience because you're obviously a big advocate for for not having these 14C certificates. What percentage of people really wind up with? I mean, you saw the people out
there on the floor today. If if Green Valley would shut down, what percentage of those people do you really think are going to find a 30 35 hour a week job in the community uh that they're going to be happy with? Like I said, a lot of
times people have maybe a little bit of emotional problems. Uh, I'll give you one other anecdote before I let you answer the question. I remember uh at that hearing there was a a gal there with her son in a county north of here and uh they and he had two
jobs. He had like a 10-hour a week job in the community and 20our a week job in a facility like this. And they asked him which one he liked and he said, "Well, I like my job at, you know, uh, wherever
he was working, McDonald's or whatever. I don't know. I like my job, but I really like the job in a facility like this because this is where all my friends are." And I thought, how horrible it would have been if he would have lost that job. But really brass
tax, when you look at the people out there on the floor today, where do you think they're going to wind up if if you ever succeed in shutting down Green Valley? >> I mean, I think um what Mr. Brewer was saying as well, you know, every
individual is an individual and yes, there's lots of stories out there that are positive and successful and there's lots of stories that people are struggling just like any person in the population struggles. Um, personally, I will be honest with you, I when looking
at all of those individuals doing work, um, I I think they could all work in the community. Absolutely. And I think they could all have 20, 30, 40hour jobs if that's what they were looking for. It's a matter of a job match. It's a matter of looking at the work environment. Um,
it's a matter of connecting people to the right business and customizing opportunities so that person adds value. Um, I would suggest that for example, all those folks are doing real jobs from
John Deere and other places. Let's bring those jobs back to John Deere and have people with disabilities who want to do those jobs work in the community in John Deere. We can support them in that. Then um we run a project search uh program
transition from school to work. And I think that I don't think that anybody is saying like tomorrow shut down Green Valley or any segregated um work facility. I think there's a process. It's a phase out. It's it's really
looking at how do we provide those supports and services to people in the community based on their individual needs and certainly data speaks loudly but I think individual stories speak loudly as well. Um and we have to look at every person as an individual. So I
would work with each person on an individual basis and say what are you interested in? What would you like to do and how can we make that happen? It's kind of the starfish scenario where you you one you save one starfish at a time. Um I I work with people with significant
disabilities in Milwaukee and we have been able to find meaningful work and then combined it. So if they're only working 20 hours and they have to be out of their house because their family works, um then we find meaningful participation. they take classes at the
technical college or they go to the YMCA to work out. They they do other things that other people do when they're not working. So, I think it's it's not an all or nothing. It's really looking at the individual and what they want to do. And then helping businesses see that
people with disabilities can be contributing members to their business and add value. I I I'll guess ask you to to respond to that, Miss Armstrong. I mean, you obviously uh know your daughter very well. Um we're talking about taking away
freedom to work here. You've had plenty of opportunity to look for jobs for her around the community. Uh do you feel looking at the whatever we had on the floor today, 40 people, 50 people, whatever there were,
do you feel that there jobs in the community that your daughter would be like I guess you kind of answered the question already that your daughter is going to feel satisfied with that uh are going to be able to have the right match
for years, which is what it takes, the right match for years. Um, for all those people out there, I mean, you certainly know a lot of people other than just your daughter, right? Over time, it's kind of like a family and, uh, you know, everybody. Uh, could you comment on the
idea that people think that if you just look harder, you're going to find a job in the community for 30 hours? >> Okay. So, I guess I'll just say this. Clara's been here since um, she left the high school. She did the DVR contract
thing and we had those two opportunities, but that took a long time to even find those opportunities that would match and fit her and they were only for the 6 hours a week, you know,
the eight hours a week opportunity, but um I lost my train of thought. Um but part of it is is the fact that um if she could have if all of those people out there all of her friends could be
working in the community, don't you think that they would have the community um partnerships or businesses would have opened up a long time ago and made that happen. I think that we've been trying this for a long time,
getting people in the community and and um when you're looking at a very unique population of citizens that are the most vulnerable, I think it the the situation has been
tried over and over without success. And I think if if there were to be that many jobs in the community and that was available, then they probably all would be there, right? But if that hasn't happened by
now, when it it's not going to magically happen tomorrow if this place closes, it's it's not going to happen. you're taking away an opportunity where um they find success and and can say
that they come to work. I know that when um our daughter did have her two jobs, one different people would say, "Well, which job do you like? Which you know, how do you like your jobs? Which job do you like?" Blah blah blah. She goes,
"Well, I work at um the the school system, you know, and the in food service. I work at Jefferson School two two days a week, but my real job is at Green Valley." And that always made us
proud because that said it all. She was happy to work in the community, but when she would say, "But my real job is is at Green Valley." to me that as a parent that says it all that she's feels safe.
She feels happy here. She feels success here. She's confident here. She knows this is her job. She knows this is where she wants to be. And yeah, so I >> thank you. Now I'm going to give it back to uh Congressman Owens. Just just one
other comment on that. Um I I think Dr. ones you talked about what we could do with other time and it sounds to me like day services you know you can you can take a class you can go on a trip you can watch TV but that's not like having
a job right and >> no and what I mean by that is it's in the community so they go to the YMCA because that's what they want to do so there's there's not a facility there's not a place they go the community is the place that they go outside of work
>> it's not like having a Okay, this will be the final thing and then we'll wrap it up. Congressman Owens. >> Okay, thank you. Thank you so much. Um, Mr. Bureau, uh, you served as vice as you serve as vice president of coalition for the preservation of employment
choice. Uh, will you describe your organization's effort to increase employment opportunities for workers with disabilities? So the coalition is specific uh to making sure that a continuum exists across a broad spectrum because
of that direction. Certainly 14C is at the heart of our current uh conversation because we see that 14C opportunity being pulled away from so many individuals. But the coalition has 22
states represented. It has providers of all types of services. Uh and it also has parents and families. Uh our our scope goes so far as uh things like the benefit cliff, like Medicaid uh dollars
that are not being expended uh in the ways that we would like that that may or may not affect our programs directly but certainly in affect our populations. So at this time what what the coalition has enabled us to do many strong state
associations were doing instate and even federal outreach but we ran into a constituency cliff where I had a great relationship with my Missouri delegation but if I needed to move outside of that in DC I I was unable to to move in that
sphere. So, we've now contracted with a a talented uh firm. Uh we've expanded our outreach and we are engaged also in that best practice conversation that I keep referring to because Missouri and
Pennsylvania and Wisconsin all have subtle but important differences. And it's important that we learn what those differences are, that we we try to identify how we might take those great ideas back uh to our own regions and
states. And uh the overall mission is to knock down barriers uh to employment. And and we absolutely celebrate every single individual that uh achieves a goal. And if that goal is to work in my
facility and try three different jobs they haven't tried before, then we celebrate that. We have a line lead position where uh individuals have progressed to where they have a full mastery and I think you saw some of that on the floor in the tour today. And if
someone has a goal to go into a com community job and they're successful in that, again, we celebrate that fact because person- centered planning is about the individual. They need to be able to speak to their their own goals,
their own expectations, and they need to be a vocal part of whatever their future looks like. And and so I don't want any of us to be pigeonholed into thinking that that I'm here to die on the hill of 14C. I'm here to die on the hill of
these men and women deserve an employment opportunity, whatever that may look like. And again, this is not 1938 and this is not that program. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank [applause and cheering] you. Um I I'm going to wrap up. Um,
and I'm going to highlight again, I think, why I'm here, why here commerce to be honest with you. Um, my background after coming out of NFL was corporate environment, business ownership, but I've always for 40 years had this desire to work with atrisisk
kids because my dad did the same thing. He was a professor, but his heart was working with atrisisk kids. Well, finally getting to Utah about 12, 13 years ago, I decided to open up a a nonprofit called Second Chance for Youth. Keep in mind that I had never
experienced really what it was to work with youth, but I always knew I wanted to. So, in my mind, it was very hypothetical what would work because I had never done it before. Well, after doing it for a while, I began to turn into an innovator because
I realized what I was thinking would work isn't what works. What would work is getting back to DC to make sure our kids can think, can read to write, can have hope. So, that innovation allowed me to say maybe coming back to DC will be the
place to do that. My big ask is this. We've never had a window like we have now. We have an America first administration that believes that every American should have an opportunity to dream. Whether it be those around the table that are getting up every single day,
we're excited about we have to get done to those working in the back. I think his name was Matt Blind, but he's doing something very important every single day. Making sure there's a hole. So, this part that goes in the trailer works. And he does it every single day.
And he's proud of it. cannot see himself around the room, but boy, is he dreaming right now? So my ask very simply, there's never been a time like now to think outside the box to ask those questions. How can we help this this
group of people who have been invisible up until now and you're the voices you're out there, you're doing it, you're every single day, you have the empathy, you have the compassion, you have the innovation, and we now have administration to listen. So I I I can't say this. I'm going to pass it back over
to to Glenn. How much I appreciate this this opportunity really. Uh you do have at this point uh that DC is going to listen to what you want to to have done. Um be as creative as you can. Think about the areas that you never have been able to get outside yet, but now we might
have a chance to do it. So that being said, uh thanks again for everybody who's here and Glenn, I'm going to pass it back to you. [applause] I I'd like to thank uh wrapping up here, I'd like to thank Congressman Owens for coming here. Um I know yesterday when I left Washington, I was pleased to come
back home and uh for uh I'm sure Congressman Owens would love to have just come back home, but instead of coming back home, we left the floor yesterday. He decided to come here and visit Green Valley. So I I I really was a really great sacrifice for him. I'm
glad he's here. Uh my final comments, I've commented kind of throughout this on what I think. First of all, I believe in freedom and this is a tremendous opportunity for the people you see working on the floor. And to say that you don't have the right to this job,
we're going to send you out in the world and assume that there's going to be something that's going to come up you like better is kind of an insulting thing to do to people when when we're hypothetically supposed to be all, you know, treating everybody the same. No, you're not treating them the same.
You're depriving them of an opportunity they want. Um there are two kind of things they come back. uh you know they don't like subminimum wage. This is not all these folks are living off of, right? Most of
them are as high or something. It's not like you're expected to make the wage here to to buy a house or something. Um they don't like the they they keep repeating this. They don't like the segregated thing. And I never know why.
I I mean when you're here and I I had I have to represent 10 counties. the all the others are all kind of similar to this. There's always a wonderful staff of people in management. I mean, if for some reason it's so important to work
with people who are with disabilities, you get that here, right? I don't even know how many people work. I I should have asked Barb, what do you have? A dozen, 15 >> of staff members. >> Yeah. >> Um on the floor, we probably have about 20 with all the programs.
>> Okay. Okay. So there's no shortage of people who work here who uh don't have these these problems and they all these places if there are shortage of people on the for individual day they will
bring people in for a week or something or other from the community if working next to somebody who you barely know but doesn't have disabilities is that important. Um, I I overwhelmingly think the people who are trying to shut this
down don't play with success. You know, I mean, like I said, there's one in my in my district that did shut down and they were bright people. Half the people were on day services. A
quarter of the people are at home and a quarter of the people they tell me are uh are going uh for a department of a vocational rehab which does not necessarily mean they're getting a job. So, I would say if assuming what I was
told was right there, that was a disaster because you had all these people who were perfectly happy at that facility and now they're they're just at home or maybe working six hours a week or maybe doing who knows what, taking a
class and something or other. They don't have that structure and pride of work because that facility was shut down. um quite frankly by by by people who who
viewed the world like you do. And uh it was just just tragic. And uh I gave you the anecdote earlier, another one that shut down. They they brought me in to see their pride and joy. The best example of
somebody working in the community. They're working in the community because I was the congressman. They didn't really care about this issue. Oh, we're going to bring Congressman Growthman and we're going to have a great day. and he's going to see how wonderful our program works. So, I go for the wonderful program. They have some gal working 8 to 10 hours a week and the
owner of the business is privately telling me that, well, we can we can do this. If the economy gets soft, we'll have to let her go, but if the economy is strong, we can keep her around here. In other words, it was really not a a real job. And that was what that was
what their their success story was. So, it will be just such a tragedy uh if Green Valley ever has to and Green Valley will hang around. I would think either way, like these others, I haven't talked to Barb about it. I bet they'll do day services
if if they shut down the work. So, um that's what the other ones do. But it it would be just a tragedy, I think, of all the nice people over the years. How long was Green Valley open? 40 or 40 years or 50 years, something.
>> Yes, actually. um opportunity the green valley is celebrating their 60th anniversary. >> 60 years you think of all the people the all the people who over that 60 years this has been so much of their life and it's a good thing they didn't talk about
all this segregation and oh horrible having subminimum wage 60 years ago or green valley never would have got off the ground. you think all the people who had so much enjoyment and so much of their life uh built in a place like this
and we just hope they've had 60 years. We hope they're here another 60 years and we're able to beat these people up. But thank you very much for being here. Um like I guess one more time, thanks for uh Congressman Owens and um
Yep. That that's it. We're done. >> [applause] >> Oh yeah. Ajourn. [applause]