Yeah. [Music] Hallelujah. Hallelujah. [Music] The committee will please come to order. Uh quorum is present. Uh the committee meets today pursuant to notice. Without objection, the chair may recess the
committee at any point. Artificial intelligence is uh scaling rapidly and as a result it is increasingly shaping how we learn, how we work, and
how we prepare for the future. Today's hearing examines AI and its growing role in education, workforce development, and uh the future of work itself. Artificial intelligence is often
described as a sudden disruption, but many of its underlying technologies have existed for decades. What has changed is the scale and the accessibility of these tools. Rapid advancements have made AI systems easier to use and more widely available,
reaching classrooms, workforce training programs, and workplaces across the country. AI's potential benefits are significant. AI tools are already helping teachers reduce administrative burdens, better personalize learning, and free up more
time to engage directly with students. For workers, AI can help build new skills, increase efficiency, and accelerate on the job learning. As a result, employers can expect productivity gains that contribute to
economic growth. An estimated 40% of GDP could be significantly affected by generative AI, which could mean a permanent increase in economic activity. That said, AI growth
is not without challenges. Models can make mistakes in education. That raises concerns about academic integrity and over reliance. In the workplace, uh, early evidence suggests AI may change how tasks are
performed, particularly for entry- levelvel roles, which underscores the need for strong pathways into the labor market and strong skills development. It's also important to recognize that many labor laws and regulations have not
kept pace with how quickly work is changing and they too often make it harder for businesses to offer benefits and flexibility. With a rapid pace of technological change, workers are seeking greater freedom and flexibility in how they
work. This highlights the need for clearer standards for independent work and more flexible benefit models to better serve a modern mobile workforce. Today, more than 70 million workers operate as self-employed independent
contractors. Yet, the federal government too often does not provide the statu statutory clarity that these workers need and deserve. In our current age of rapid technological growth, including AI
related development, our policies must adapt to the growing role of independent work. As this committee considers AI, we must recognize that many existing education and workforce policies were designed for a different era. The goal
should not be to rush into sweeping new rules and regulations, but to ensure schools, employers, and training providers can keep pace with innovation while maintaining trust and prioritizing safety and privacy.
US leadership and AI is pivotal in uh to the nation's economic success and security. The Trump administration understands that this leadership requires an AI ready workforce supported by strong classroom instruction and on
the job learning that make the most of cutting edge technologies. Today we have the opportunity to better understand how AI is being uh is being and could be used in education and workforce systems where it's delivering
value and where challenges remain. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses. And with that, I yield to the ranking member. >> Thank you, M. Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you to our witnesses for being with us today.
From chat box to programming to grocery lists, artificial intelligence has rapidly integrated into our daily lives of millions of Americans, transforming how we interact with technology and the world around us. Due to the rapid rise of AI technology, scientists and
researchers have had relatively little time to study its impact on American lives. So, we must act carefully and methodically when implementing new technologies, particularly in settings where they may have long lasting uh impacts, such as our schools, workplaces, and healthc
care settings. This is a time of incredible change and possibility. So, it is up to us to shepherd this new technology with caution and responsibility that the situation demands. As we discussed at an early childhood ed elementary and secondary
education subcommittee hearing earlier this year, AI is already present in our schools. Many educators have found that generative AI systems allow them to offer more personalized instruction to students, streamlined assignments, and provide real-time feedback. This has led
to a rise of AI literacy in which students and teachers have learned to use AI responsibly for the benefit of their education and futures. But it's not without risk. There's a piece this morning on NPR uh titled report the
risks of AI in schools outweigh the benefits. Um while so while the prospect of this new technology is exciting, we don't have enough data right now to understand the full impact on Americans lives. AI tools are created by humans
and humans are flawed. This can lead to AI tools exhibiting biases and unfairness due to bias bias training data um other kinds of discrimination and lack of diversity in AI development. This can also result in unfair decision
makingaking about what students need to learn and how. Discrimination by way of AI has also had ramifications in our workforce. The Society for Human Resource Management survey found that nearly 80% of its members use AI for
recruiting and hiring. Multiple studies have found that some of these recruitment tools have demonstrated biases against women and black applicants. It's important to recognize that AI is not infallible technology and it is not neutral. So we must take
proactive steps to ensure that AI technology does not perpetuate existing disparities and erode civil rights. Concerns about AI in the workplace doesn't stop with the hiring process. As AI proliferates, we've be begun to see
employers use sophisticated automatic technology to monitor and evaluate workers. This includes tracking how workers physical activities This includes tracking workers physical activities on the job such as how often
they go to the bathroom using facial recognition to assess their attention to computer screens and others. Still worse, employers have used data to estimate potential union organizing activity. I don't think anyone on this committee would want their personal
activities tracked by an employer. So she would so we shouldn't expect less from the American from for for the American worker. Fortunately unfortunately the Trump administration's actions to dismantle the department of education have
hamstrung much of our existing capacity to study and regulate AI's effect on education. Decimation of the Office of Education Technology and the Institute of Educational Science Sciences has diminished our ability to
comprehensively research student safety related to artificial intelligence. One of our strongest institutions to fight discrimination, the Office of Civil Rights, has had almost half its staff fired and seven of its 12 regional
office closed. And while the Trump administration has started rehiring some of the staff, the chaos has clear clearly disrupted the offic's operations to the detriment of parents and students. Today, 33 states have released
official guidance or policies on the use of AI in K through2 schools. Virginia, for example, has issued guidance on integrating AI and education and among other things, provides recommendations for teacher professional development and AI literacy programs.
But without clear, consistent federal leadership from the Department of Education, states have largely been left to navigate this complex landscape on their own, creating inconsistencies and exacerbating achievement gaps. AI also
poses significant risk risks to data privacy and child safety. For example, a nonprofit group AI Forensics found in a recent analysis of 20,000 images created by Grock that 2% depicted a person who
appeared to be 18 or younger in bikinis or transparent clothing. A study by Brown University researchers found that AI chat box boxes routinely violate mental health ethics standards, including failing to refer users to
appropriate resources and responding indifferently to crisis situations, including suicidal ideiation. AI recently launched a open AI recently launched the controversial chat GD GPT
health app which can review users health records and generate personalized advice raising concerns about privacy and accuracy of chat box boxes. Um the Meta is currently fighting allegations in
court that downplayed the risks of its platforms to children. The Center for Missing and Exploited Children also reports seeing a dramatic increase in generative AI technologies that are capable of creating child sexual abuse material and a rise in other disturbing
trends related to AI chatbot bots. The organization received approximately 7,000 reports uh through its cyber tip line in 2024 and nearly half a million in just the first half of 2025.
Despite these very real risks, it's become alarmingly clear that the Trump administration is eager to grant large techn technology companies unprecedented access to Americans data. In December, the Trump administration issued an executive order attempting to block
states from regulating AI on its own. Um the um Congress seriously considered doing that by legislation which I think is necessary to override state state laws. Congress should not however stand idly
by where the Trump administration may be ingratiating itself to big tech CEOs and preventing states from protecting Americans against dangerous dangers posed by AI. This is why Congress must take a active role in shaping how AI is
integrated into our lives and develop thoughtful regulations that balance protecting students, workers, and families in fostering and fostering economic growth. Today, we stand at another crossroad of technology, technological advancement, and it's up
to Congress to ensure that AI takes us forward, but not backwards. So, I look forward to the conversations today and yield back the balance of my time. >> I thank the gentleman. Uh, pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish to insert written statements into the
record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the hearing uh record will remain open for 14 days to allow such
statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I'll now turn to our four witnesses. Uh our first witness, uh Miss Chaya
Nyak, the head of certifications and jobs platform at Open AI from San Francisco, California. Welcome. Our second witness is Mr. Adil Khan, the founder and CEO of Magic School AI from
Boulder, Colorado. Welcome. Our third witness is Miss Alexander Reev Given, the president and CEO of Magic School AI. Excuse me, my view shifted there. I guess gave you another title. The the
president and CEO for the Center for Democracy and Technology from Washington DC. Welcome. Our last witness is Mr. Kevin Fraser, an AI innovation and law fellow from the University of Texas Law School from Austin, Texas. Welcome.
We thank the witnesses for being here today. Pursuant to committee rules, I would ask that you each limit your oral presentation uh to a threeminut summary for our for um for your written statement. The clock will countdown from
three minutes as committee members have many questions for you and we would like to spend as much time as possible on questions. Pursuant to committee rule 8D and committee practice, however, we will not cut you off your testimony until you
reach the five minute mark. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware that their responsibility to provide accurate information to the committee is their responsibility. And so I'll first recognize Miss Nyak
for your testimony. Thank you, Chairman Wahlberg, Ranking Member Scott, and members of the committee. My name is Chaya Nyak, and I lead OpenAI's work on certifications and our jobs platform. These efforts are focused on helping people build AI
skills and connect those skills to real economic opportunity. At OpenAI, we believe that AI will make workers more productive and unlock more opportunity than any technology in history. It will help people do their jobs better, help businesses operate
more effectively, and give anyone the power to turn ideas into income and outcomes, and create jobs that don't even exist today. But we know that work will look quite different. Some jobs will actually be lost. We want to do our
part to help workers actually prepare and get ready for this AIdriven economy. Doing this will require us to acknowledge a simple reality. These tools can do far more than workers, small businesses, and communities are currently using them for
today. And if we don't close that gap, a select few will capture most of the benefits of AI, while others will be left behind. That gap is what we call the capability overhang. The distance between what AI can do and what people
are actually using it for today. Our goal is to close that so AI can work for all Americans. Employers are being clear about the value they place on AI skills. More than 70% of business leaders say that they would hire a less experienced
candidate that has AI experience versus a more seasoned one without it. And other research shows that workers with AI skills can actually earn up to 50% more than their nonIskilled counterparts. At OpenAI, our starting point is ChatgBT
itself. For many people, ChatGBT is not just a tool. It's actually a place to learn. Workers use it to practice real tasks, get feedback, and build skills. And um it's really dynamic and super personal. That learning matters, but
only if it helps workers and employers be able to actually acknowledge the skills that they're getting from the use of AI. And this is where our certifications program comes in. It begins with AI foundations. Um we're building a course that actually helps people learn AI skills and um apply
those skills across industries and different outcomes. With the additional coursework, they're going to progress to a full OpenAI certification and that broader credential will show employers that a person can actually apply AI effectively in real world work settings.
Our goal is to certify 10 million Americans by 2030 with AI skills. From there, we're working to close the loop with our OpenAI jobs platform. This platform will launch very soon. The jobs platform is designed to connect
employers with job seekers across every industry. And our goal is to use AI to help people get prepared, get matched, and to actually get hired. We're launching our jobs and certifications effort with a broad coalition of partners, employers like
Walmart, state systems, universities, because each of those organizations brings unique insight into what workers need and what employers actually value. We think there's still time to prepare people for this new AI era, but there's not time to wait and um kind of not
build programs and systems that we need to make people successful. That's why at OpenAI, we're acting right now and we're helping them um by building the tools and technology to support them and make it easier for employers to actually hire them. Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify today and I look
forward to all of your questions. >> Thank you. I now recognize Mr. Khan for your uh testimony. >> Uh Chairman Wahlberg, Ranking Member Scott, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Adil Khan. I'm the
founder and CEO of Magic School, a generative AI platform built for schools. Before this, I was I spent my career in public schools as a teacher, assistant principal, principal, and district leader. I've held nearly every job in a school building. There are over 7 million educators using Magic Schools
AI worldwide, representing nearly every school and district in the US. Teachers are some of the widest adopters of AI in any profession. Many educators are using it in practical ways like saving time on routine work, lesson planning, personalizing
instruction for diverse learners, and communicating with families. That reality is not the problem. The problem is that we do not yet have shared standards and safe purpose-built tools as a default for classrooms without clear guard rails, responsibility
fragments, and districts struggle to protect students and learn what works. The most promising early uses are educator facing. AI delivers the most value when it strengthens, not shortcuts, teacher judgment. Used well,
it helps a teacher prepare faster, differentiate for students, and provide timely feedback while decisions stay firmly in their hands. K12 schools are different. Students are minors. Schools hold sensitive data. Instruction shapes shapes learning
outcomes. Responsible use should be anchored in a few simple principles. Tools purpose-built for education. Humans stay in the loop. Student protections by design and transparency so districts and families understand data use and
controls. Education policy is primarily state and local. The most constructive federal role is to support capacity and protections for children while investing in educator training, evidence building, procurement guidance, and funding so
districts can adopt responsibly. I'll close with a story from last year that sums up why learning about AI in schools from your teacher is so important. Recently, I was spending time with a friend and his daughter who's in the 10th grade. As we caught up, she'd known
me from my former life as a teacher and a principal. She found out about my new work in magic school and excitedly said, "I use that in school." She went on to share with me that in her history class, her teacher uses the writing feedback tool with them. She
gets personalized rubric aligned AI feedback on her essays that she wrote by herself, not without a not with AI from magic school. She was grateful for the chance to get AI feedback and revise her essay before being graded by her teacher. Even as a high school student,
she was so able to so clearly articulate the value of the feedback and how without the AI tool, it would have been nearly impossible for her teacher to give meaningful formative feedback on each individual child's essay before it was turned in.
Naturally, I inquired more. What do you think about AI in general? How are you and your friends using it? She shared an eloquent, nuanced answer, both acknowledging that some use it to cheat, but saying she's made the choice to use it sparingly.
She explained that she knew that she could use it as a shortcut like some of her friends did, but didn't want to because she didn't want to offload too much of her own thinking. She reminded me that her brain is still in a really important development phase and she'd be
tested without AI anyways, so what's the point? The conversation was inspiring. Not only did she clearly know the value, but just as importantly, she knew the risks and had agency to make an informed choice about how she would use AI in and out of
the classroom. The first thought I had was, "Wow, what a thoughtful, intelligent, savvy young lady. I was nowhere near as thoughtful as a 10th grader." The second thought was, "Wow, she must have had a great teacher that helped her
learn about the risks and benefits of AI to make great choices about her own future." Every child deserves a teacher in a school like this. Thank you. I look forward to your questions. >> Thank you. And I recognize Miss Reeve
Given for your testimony. >> Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I lead the Center for Democracy and Technology, a nonpartisan organization focused on how technology impacts people's rights and futures. We have specific projects on workers rights
and the evolving use of data and technology in K through2 classrooms, the research for which informs my testimony today. AI is already shaping how Americans learn, work, and are evaluated. AI can support educators and workers in meaningful ways. But without guard
rails, transparency, and accountability, it can just as easily deepen inequalities and undermine progress. Building an AI ready America means more than accelerating adoption. It means ensuring that AI lifts up all communities for sustained social and
economic growth. Congress has an important role to play through legislation, by ensuring the proper functioning of the Department of Education, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, and other federal agencies, and by providing the resources that workers, educators, and families need in
this transformational time. Turning first to the workforce, employers are increasingly relying on AI in hiring, management, and oversight. While AI tools can create efficiencies, they can also exclude workers and violate US employment laws. For example, AI tools
used to screen resumes have automatically rejected applicants over 55, downrated female applicants, and filtered out résumés with employment gaps, which may be due to medical leave or returning from military service. Risks also arise from AI powered interviews or tests, which claim to test
traits like a person's appetite for risk or emotional stability. In one study, a researcher completed an English language AI interview in German and yet was still determined to be a 73% match for the job. Workers often have little
visibility into how these tools work or what they're actually testing. The harm is felt not just by workers, but by employers who are investing in ineffective tools that may break the law. This is why it benefits everyone to acknowledge these risks and address them through rigorous testing and
transparency. AI is also being used to manage and monitor workers with impacts for their rights and safety. As one factory worker put it, "Any slack is perpetually being optimized out of the system and with it any opportunity to rest or recover."
Workers also report losing privacy, independent judgment, and professional expertise as they become micromanaged in every facet of a task. My written testimony lists several enacted and proposed laws to address these risks, including the proposed No Robot Bosses Act and Stop Spying Bosses
Act. Research shows workers strong support for these types of rules. Federal agencies also have an important role to play. The EEOC, Department of Justice, Department of Labor, and National Labor Relations Board previously developed valuable guidance for employers to help ensure their use
of AI tools is fair and legal. But these documents have now been removed from the agency's websites. Congress should encourage these agency's role guiding employers and supporting workers at this critical time. In education, AI use in K through2 schools has now reached record
levels with 85% of teachers and 86% of students using generative AI last school year. Each year, CDT conducts nationwide polling that asks students, parents, and teachers about their experiences with AI and how they feel about it, from which I'll share four relevant trends.
First, students are turning to AI for social and emotional purposes. This year, 42% of students reported that they or a friend have used generative AI for mental health support, and 42% reported using it as a friend or companion. This raises pressing questions about students
emotional development and safety and the urgent need for privacy protections as these companies that make these tools learn so much about our and our children's lives. Second, deep fakes and non-consensual intimate imagery are a serious problem in schools, but less
than a quarter of teachers say their schools have clear policies to respond, and responses often focus solely on discipline rather than prevention and victim support. Third, more than half of special ed teachers now use AI to help develop IEPs. While most parents and
students support this, it requires dedicated efforts to comply with student privacy and disability laws. Fourth, most public schools are now using AI powered software to monitor students online activity, even on personal devices and outside school hours. These
tools aren't just used to support kids in distress. They're also being used for discipline. Among teachers we surveyed, 25% knew of a student who was contacted by law enforcement as a result of student monitoring. Five and 10 students agreed, "I don't share my true thoughts
or ideas because I know what I do online is being monitored." Despite these risks, only a third of teachers have guidance on how to use these systems privately and securely. As in the workforce, AI's potential in education can only be realized if we're cleareyed about the risks and help educators and
families to address them. Congress and this committee have an important role to play, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you. >> Thank you. And lastly, but not least, I uh recognize Mr. Frasier for your testimony. Chairman Wahlberg, Ranking Member Scott,
and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. My name is Kevin Frasier. I'm a senior fellow at the Abundance Institute and the AI Innovation and Law Program Fellow at the University of Texas School of Law. The economic normal in the age of AI is and will be marked
by flexibility. Future generations of Americans won't associate traditional work with nineto-ive employment. The career ladder will be replaced by a career flywheel in which individuals succeed due to their capacity to adapt and willingness to learn. In short, we'll soon see more and more Americans
participating in what I call the portfolio economy. Workers will maintain an array of skills that they offer to a range of employers on a project-to-p project basis. This transition will put pressure on New Deal era laws such as the Fair Labor Standards Act. My written
testimony makes three points. The transition to the portfolio economy must be datadriven, worker focused, and flexible. Absent more data about how Congress uh how the economy is evolving, Congress may lack the information necessary to assess whether existing laws are functioning as intended. Many
of the current sources of labor market data are infrequent, imprecise, or inaccurate. The contingent worker survey, for example, is issued on an irregular basis and does not accurately capture the number of Americans in non-traditional jobs. It's also unlikely that Congress has up-to-date and
comprehensive information on AI adoption. According to recent polls, just 10% of workers use AI daily and a mere 9% of small firms have picked up AI. This information, though, is akin to learning that LeBron James played 47 minutes in a basketball game. It's
better than nothing, but it really doesn't tell you anything. It's missing what really matters, like how many points he scored or to return to AI, whether its use is increasing productivity and altering hiring decisions. Updating and expanding the sources of information on AI progress
will become all the more important as the technology continues to evolve. While most experts agree we should expect ongoing advances in AI, they diverge when it comes to pinpointing the specifics. The so-called jagged frontier of AI will cause firms to preserve the option of automating and augmenting
certain tasks and roles. Consequently, they'll prioritize finding workers with specific skills for finite projects. In turn, workers will need to be ready and willing to learn new skills and fast. With a better understanding understanding of AI advances and
adoption, I recommend Congress analyze laws such as the Fair Labor Standards Act with a focus on two aspects. First, to what extent does the law law rely on frameworks and definitions that clash with the portfolio economy? And second, does the law incentivize workers to
engage in the career flywheel, to study, to shadow via apprenticeships, and to work in non-traditional arrangements? Thank you again for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions. >> I thank each of the witnesses. Uh you've wetted our appetite and I guess also
given us a question. Were your testimonies produced by AI? We'll leave that. Under committee rule nine, we'll now question witnesses under the fivem minute rule. I'll recognize myself uh
for five minutes of questioning. Miss Nyak, um I guess the key question I would ask you is what what distinguishes high quality uh credentials in an AIdriven market
from one that is well-intentioned and low value. >> Thank you, chairman. What I think distinguishes high-V value credentials from lower value credentials is actually doing the work to make sure that the credentials are psychometrically valid. In fact, what
that means is that we're not just creating courses that people take passively and not really testing their outcomes or maybe testing their outcomes through really simple assessments, but rather we're working towards actually training AI to be able to assess people
and do so against a common standard. Um, we're partnering with organizations like ETSs um to actually validate that the courses are actually leading to outcomes and we're partnering with our econ research team that's actually following students throughout their learning journey to ensure that they're seeing
the outcomes from taking the course. And so we think it's both a pair of making sure that the course actually has value and content that's worth learning, but then ensuring that the students that take those courses actually can apply those in their roles and then validating that in order to issue the credential
rather than just having them passively observe it. >> So whole well-rounded immediate evaluation, >> correct? >> Both sides of the equation. Okay. Thank you. Um Mr. con there are hundreds perhaps thousands of vendors and more
will be coming all the time I'm sure selling AI products to schools. You mentioned that policymakers uh should help districts and I quote ask the right questions uh before buying AI platforms. What what are some of those questions?
Uh a few really important questions that uh a district buyer should wonder about when bringing on an AI platform to uh their school or district is uh first and foremost, how do you protect student data? Um what data do you record? Are you training models with our students
inputs uh and their outputs into the platform? Um, other questions you might ask are how do you evaluate uh your platform for things like bias, uh, safety, um, ensuring that we don't see some of the the negative, uh, parts of
generative AI, uh, become a part of our district. Um, uh, Magic School has put out several white papers, uh, around how we approach AI safety for students. uh one uh highlights the idea that AI can be uh used potentially for
companionship. Um students sometimes uh will turn any tool into something that can be a companion if it's an open-ended chatbot. So what are the guard rails that you put in place to ensure that uh those kinds of things don't happen um in a public school setting? Um and then
finally h how do you ensure that uh the student is using it for the purpose that has been given in the classroom and not for other purposes? How do you build your guard rails into the platform so that when a student asks a question that is outside the bounds of what you want
to be happening in a classroom uh it responds appropriately? and what kind of controls do you give the teacher and the school district to uh to remedy those things and and create their own guardrails for the platform. Uh we know that schools and districts are different
state-to-state uh and we want to make sure that there are there's an empower district leadership to make make the right decisions for how generative AI will be used in their school or district. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Frasier. Uh when we discuss AI in the workplace, we typically put it into two buckets.
First, its ability to augment work performed by humans to produce higher levels of productivity and second its ability to auto uh automate certain tasks completely and replace replace human effort um with the initial wave of AI in the workplace. What's been the net
impact of augmenting work? >> So, thank you for that question chairman. I think it's important to as you did distinguish between task automation and task augmentation. We're seeing that even when tasks are automated, when AI is completely taking over a specific function, there are
still a number of tasks that must involve some degree of human intervention. We had some people who were predicting, for example, the end of uh certain professions because they thought that AI would automate just one or two of those tasks. Those professions are still alive and well today.
Radiologists, for example, are seeing higher numbers of employment, not the end of their profession as a whole. And so as we look at the initial introduction of AI into the economy, number one, I'd first point out adoption is still very low. And number two, even where there is adoption, we're seeing
that the bottlenecks that remain even after some tasks are automated result perhaps in even more job creation or higher wages for those workers in those industries. >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks for answering my second question without me asking it. I appreciate that. Now, now I recognize um
the gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney for his five minutes of questioning. >> Thank you um Mr. Chairman and thank you to the witnesses for being here today. Um you know I want to go back to um Mr. Scott's opening comments regarding the explosion of tips and calls into the
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Um again the numbers bear repeating. Uh in 2024 the number of uh tips that have been that came into the system was 6,800. In 2025, the number was 440,000
was made just in the first half of of the year. Uh and again, the center's been around for 40 years. Uh this committee actually uh authorizes its operation and funding year in and year out. We just actually enacted the the latest update in 2024. But clearly um
the system has just been rocked and by an avalanche u of um you know incidents that are happening and uh you know miss Ree Given I mean you you alluded to this in in your testimony. I mean, what what do you what what's the response that
Congress needs to make here um to to hold technology companies accountable, help victims, and assist these organizations to to deal with really I I think is clearly a crisis. >> Um thank you for the question and for highlighting this important issue. It's
this is an issue not only for young people and their parents, but it is also showing up in school communities as well. Our survey data this year showed that 12% of students knew of non-consentual intimate imagery depicting somebody in their school community. So that's one of their peers.
It's one of their teachers. Um and right now we really have a lack of resources for teachers knowing how to respond. Some schools are leaning into discipline. Of course that is part of the equation, but we also need to make sure that people are talking rigorously about prevention and support for victims, including mechanisms for taking
this stuff down. Um, there are some laws on the books that can be helpful. So, when imagery depicts minors, it is illegal content that must already be taken down. Uh, companies can be held liable for keeping it up and for generating that content. In addition, Congress recently passed the Take It
Down Act to make it easier for people to take down these images of themselves by filing a request. Just yesterday, the Senate passed the Defiance Act, which has now made its way over to the House for consideration, which makes it easier for people to sue when they are a victim of this. But again, putting it just on
the shoulders of individual victims, is not a solution. We also need companies really leaning into their obligations here. This involves a couple different things. One is about the capacity of your tool to generate these images in the first place. What are the tools in check around the creation of nude images
around the uploading of images of real people and how you allow those to be manipulated? Second is around the detection when those outputs are coming out. Why are you stopping it and how does that work? And then third of course are social media platforms and other places where these uh images can be
disseminated. Oftent times it is already a violation of the terms of service for that to happen but we see that companies are not rigorously enforcing those terms. We advocate directly to the companies to do that. Even where it is not necessarily illegal content, but is still deeply inappropriate, they should
be creating a safe community for their users and living up to the promises they're telling their users about what they do. >> Thank you for that answer. I, you know, when we uh enacted that recent update to for the cent's work, um there was, you
know, basically a budget sort of u trajectory which was fairly steady. Uh but obviously the work that they have been um taking on really just within the last year is just completely been overtaken. So um you know clearly
there's a cost here. You know it's there's a social cost to AI which um you know we uh again as a society have to sort of figure out who pays uh in terms of of dealing with that. But you know this is a completely consensus issue in
terms of the cent's um authorities. uh it goes back 40 years I think as I mentioned earlier and um it should be frankly in my opinion a consensus issue for industry uh as well as uh the political parties uh here in Washington. So again at some point it is come down
comes down to the question of who pays and and it seems that industry has an obligation here given the fact that there's a direct connection um to to you know the scaling rapidly I think was the what the chairman said about AI at the opening and and really what's also
rapidly happening in terms of negative fallout. Uh no um sorry I very much agree and I think the question here is both the technological development so what are those safeguards that should be embedded into the tools and then the will to actually follow through. It's one thing
to write a good terms of service saying that you don't allow this on your platform. It's another to rigorously enforce it. One of the problems we write have right now is lack of visibility into how platforms are complying with their terms of service. uh some of them do do kind of disclosures about it, but it's not a common practice. And we've
actually seen some pullback in recent years. And so when we think about accountability, when we think what it is to make good on the promise you make to your customers and your users about the community that you are building online about the value of these tools, how can we get far more information and honest
disclosures around how these issues are being addressed in a rigorous way? >> Thank you. I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. And I now recognize the esteemed gentleman from South Carolina. >> Thank you very >> Columbia, South Carolina. >> Lexington. >> Lex. >> Anyway, the bottom line, I'm just grateful to be here, but uh thank you,
Chairman Tim Wahberg, and it's really great to see the uh bipartisanship with ranking member Bobby Scott, uh Joe Courtney, the whole team. Uh and it's uh because what we're dealing with is just so important. And then thank all of you for your testimony today on such an
important issue. And Mr. Khan, with this in mind, how, and you've hit on this already, but how can we promote that the presence of AI and K through 12 education is not diminishing a student's ability to think critically, particularly children who are not aware
of the risk? And additionally, how can we ensure the protection of minor students data when they utilize AI? >> Thank you for the question. Uh I think that there are a couple things that we we believe as a organization. One is
that uh if a a student is not introduced to generative AI in the school building, they will inevitably be introduced to generative AI in a different way. So that might be that you know you open Snapchat and you see my AI at the top of it. You might open Instagram and see a
uh an AI chatbot in your search function. Uh, I think that everyone in this room would agree that you'd prefer the first time that a child interacts with generative AI. It's under the guidance of a teacher who's teaching them about how it works, the risks and benefits of using generative AI, the
purposes with which they could find value, and also the risks associated with uh you the use of the technology. One of which I didn't mention in my testimony, which is offloading too much of your own thinking. We don't want students um in primary school having AI
right for them. We want students having the writing done by themselves. Uh I was an English teacher and I think so much about how uh you know writing is beyond the finished product. It's the construction of thoughts, right? It's you are developing your own ideas, your
own opinions when you put your pencil to paper. So we want students doing that and we don't want them offloading that to AI. But that starts with teaching students about the technology and the risks and benefits of it uh and actually engaging with it to understand how uh
they can be um productive users of it in the now and in the future. >> I appreciate your thoughtfulness and Miss Nyak with about a third of Americans reporting that they're using Chap GPT developments like Open AI's jobs
platform has immense potential to affect the community. Could you elaborate on how you see this job platform working and what outcomes you're hoping to see? >> Thank you, Congressman. Yes, our goal is
to certify 10 million Americans by 2030. And with that certification, um what we're trying to do is build a jobs platform that can then connect those Americans to roles across the economy. And so our goal here is first um when we launch, we'll start with a product that's focused on um users of chat GPT
and helping them get career advice, helping them understand where their skills are, what gaps they may have, helping them actually get AI skills if they so choose through our certifications effort, and then finally um helping them connect with employers that really value those skills.
certifications is really the through line um for this whole effort because we believe that um we can actually have employers trust those certifications and then be able to use them to help them um identify roles for different people in the economy. Well, again, all all of
you, your expertise is going to be so helpful. And Professor Frasier, you wrote in a recent op-ed, quote, "The AI debate is being framed by questions that have distracted us from the practical policy challenges we need to address to bring about a better future." End of quote. Will you expand on that point and
explain how you think that we should be talking about AI's potential impact on the workplace? And um I I have a practical uh problem that I've seen and that I have found out that a number of young people don't know how to read cursive. And I'm concerned that they're
so AI focused that um I'm I'm having uh difficulty communicating with people who can't read cursive. >> With respect to cursive, uh sir, I I think I'll leave that to the English professor about the the merits of writing in that style. I will instead uh
focus on the question of how do we make sure that Congress prioritizes the issues that really matter in this AI debate. I think uh to my colleagues point making sure we focus on AI adoption and AI literacy is incredibly important. Right now many people have access to these tools and our polls that
we issue ask them do you use for example chat GPT? Well sure but you may be creating a meme. That's like asking someone if they've ever driven and they say yes, Mario Kart all the time, right? It's not a meaningful metric of whether you actually know how to use the tool. And so we need to have a far greater
focus on making sure we're paying attention to literacy and true skill development. >> Well, I I wish you well. And I've seen the good and the bad. I uh a political candidate actually made fun of me doing the macarina, which I don't know how to do, but it made me look good. And then and then um I don't think they meant for
it. And then uh recently I've got a beautiful picture about a um uh showing uh me showing a a picture of a beautiful lake and so that I was not there. But uh what an interesting time we all live in. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
>> I thank the gentleman for his macarina. And now I want to recognize the gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Vladimichi. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses. Special welcome to Professor Frasier who is in Texas now but via Oregon an Oregonian. Uh so so we
know that AI is rapidly uh reshaping classrooms and workplaces. Uh I'm very concerned about the minimal if any professional development on how to responsibly use AI in classrooms. Mr. Khan, thank you for your mention of guard rails and the human elements. Um,
and I appreciated your story, but the last time I spoke with high school students, they told me they're terrified that their classmates are going to use their images in a way that is uh violating their rights. So, so I'm a member of this committee, education workforce. I'm a member of the committee on science, space, and technology where
I'll note there's also an AI hearing happening right now. And I also served as bipartisan member of the AI task force. And I have heard and raised questions for years about security bias, the ethical use of AI, and also the challenges of enforcing violations of
civil rights and privacy rights in the context of of the use of AI. It's important to note that AI literacy isn't just about how learning to use the tools, but also how to critically evaluate them to critically evaluate AI through the lens of ethics, humanities,
linguistics, and other fields and perspectives that are often underrepresented in these conversations. So, Miss Ree Given, first, thank you for mentioning my bipartisan no robot bosses act, which we have reintroduced in this Congress. Thank you to Representative Moland of this committee for
co-sponsoring that. It's HR 6371. So I invite all my colleagues to sign on uh to require uh employers who use automated decision systems to provide the specific disclosures. But my question today is about the need for a broader perspective in AI and what we
need both in the short term and in the long term. Um I submit that it's not just technology skills as I mentioned. We need people with backgrounds in fluency and ethics and history, linguistics, humanities and other fields that develop, as Representative Wilson was saying, critical thinking skills.
So, how will these perspectives and backgrounds help to equip students and workers and employees employers to better develop, but also responsibly use AI and navigate its challenges, but also its opportunities. >> Thank you so much for that question and for your leadership on these issues. And
I think the way that you frame it is exactly right. To make good on the promise of this technology, we have to have a long view on what some of the immed both what some of the immediate and long-term risks can be and have that grounded in the people with appropriate subject matter expertise. The subject
matter matter expertise is not just AI, it is learning science, it is student emotional well-being, it is privacy and security. Um and so and then in different domains when workers are now having automated management systems, those workers also have domain expertise
where the AI can be used to enhance their skills, but they need a voice in how it is being deployed for them to really make good uh on that specialization and that promise. Um just to reinforce some of the concerns that you were raising about the use of AI in schools, I will say that our survey data very much reinforces what you are
saying, which is that you know 72% of parents, 71% of teachers do worry that AY will diminish students critical thinking skills. They are really thinking actively about what training is needed for teachers and teachers are asking for more. Of course, it is about how to use these tools and how it can
help them in the classroom. But it is also necessary to underscore what the potential risks can be and how teachers can play a role in mitigating those harms. >> You you actually anticipated my next question which was about how the lack of educator professional development uh
which you established. I mean I read the the the statistics in your testimony. It's it's it's pretty concerning. How does that increase the risk of students not only uh improperly using AI but experiencing privacy and security security violations? Well, in two different ways. I f first of all, Mr.
Khan put it perfectly when he said that teachers really can play an important role helping steward students through this transition, helping them understand how to use these tools, how to think critically about them, but the teachers need to be prepared to do that. Um, one of the I think things that's important to emphasize here is right now just the
lack of transparency in a lot of the edtech products around how they address some of these concerns. Mr. Khan also spelled out what some of those considerations can and should be. Are these tools grounded in learning science? Have they been tested for bias? Are they do they have appropriate guardrails for use by young people? What
are their security and privacy protections? Uh but right now we don't have a standardized rubric. I will say that CDT has published one. We have a rubric of eight factors and have assessed a 100 edtech vendors against it. And we're still just not seeing disclosures around this. And that's
stopping educators both at the teacher level, but also at the school administrator level making informed decisions about what tools to use and have a much more evidence-based conversation around this progress. >> I appreciate that very much. But I also note that this administration is trying to shut down the Department of Education
and eliminate or extremely cut funding for things like title 2, which is professional development for educational research. That's we need that more than ever, especially in the age of AI because we know we can't achieve an AI ready workforce without a national strategy, without a dedicated
investments, and we can't lead uh the world in AI by leaving students and educators and workers as an afterthought. Um, as I yield back, Mr. Chairman, I'm developing a comprehensive legislative framework to strengthen the teaching, learning, and dignity of work in an AI enabled economy. and I look
forward to working with my colleagues on I hope on both sides of the aisle to improve AI literacy and workforce readiness while protecting privacy and security rights. And I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> I thank the gentle lady. I recognize the uh chairman chairwoman emmeritus of this
committee, Miss Fox from North Carolina. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank our witnesses for being here today. This really is an important topic that we all need to be concerned about. Miss Nyak, based on your work leading
certifications and the jobs platform of open AI, what is one major misconception policy makers often have about how AI will transform credentiing and hiring and why does that misconception matter
for workforce and education policy decisions? >> Thank you, Congresswoman. I think one major misconception is the speed at which jobs will be impacted by AI. Um what we're really seeing right now in terms of the trends that we're looking at is rather than um jobs being lost
immediately, rather jobs are being augmented and we're seeing people start to introduce AI tools into their everyday workflows like getting um writing advice, guidance um rather than kind of taking over their whole roles. What that means for certifications and
our jobs platform is now is the time to give AI workers skills. And we think we can do that through our certifications effort. And then if we're able to build um on the fact that people are already coming to AI to learn, we can certify them to learn, then we can actually work
with the economy, work with employers to actually then connect them to opportunities that leverage those skills. And I think that will help us transition. Um, and I think it will be a lot less of just this kind of rip of the band-aid where people, you know, lose their jobs immediately.
>> Uh, it's unfortunate we were not able to pass a bill yesterday. We've give employee employees the opportunity to work more on their skill development using AI uh without it impinging upon
their employer. I have another question for you. There are many conversations happening around automation versus augmentation in an AI enabled workplace. Could you speak on what you believe will be the durable skills workers need to
develop to succeed in an AI future and how AI technology can help develop those skills? >> Yes. So, um, one of the things that we're doing with our certifications effort is we're building a series of courses called AI foundations. And we
think those will be the foundational skills that people need to be able to effectively use AI. Our coursework starts with AI foundations. Um, this one's focused on chat GBT, which is how do you actually prompt engineer a model? How do you work with a model to
co-develop outcomes. Our second course will focus on applied AI skills. How do you actually use models in um being able to create agentic workflows? Um I spent a lot of time with frontline workers and that's actually the course they're most excited for because they see it as being
able to take on parts of their job that they really don't like doing. I spoke to people unloading trucks um at kind of large um department stores and they really want to automate the workflow of choosing which truck um to to kind of offload first and rather than having to
you know decide themselves and then make the wrong decision and cost the company money. The third course will focus on how do you actually teach others around you AI and I think this speaks a lot to um what Mr. Khan was saying about um leveraging AI in the classroom and being able to enable people to train others.
Um, we're looking at a AI leadership and training course where people actually learn skills like responsibility in AI and how do you effectively train others around you to co-leverage AI with you. Um, so we think those are the three foundational courses and then um, our hope is to actually build those out to
more specialized courses for industries. >> Great. Thank you very much. Um, Mr. Frasier, your written testimony points to several sources of information for data on AI's impact on the workforce, but you say these sources point only to
uh paint only some of the picture. Should robust information gathering and information sharing on AI's impact begin in the private or public sector? >> So, thank you very much for that question, Congresswoman. I think that we need to put a all hands- on deck
mentality approach to data gathering at this point. Uh if you talk to any good economist, they'll tell you first they don't know what's going on in the economy because we don't have enough information about who's adopting which tools and to what ends. And so having updates to our information gathering
techniques starting with for example the contingent worker survey at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This is issued on an ad hoc basis. uh there was a gap from 2017 to 2023 for example. We know that the gig economy in that window transformed tremendously. So let's start
both with issuing more frequent calls for information and also making it easier for companies, private sector entities to submit and share information. I believe that AI will facilitate that process and I believe that we can make sure that we aggregate and anonymize that data such that
compliance rates are pretty high. I have a short followup and I I'll ask you to just submit the information later. Please let us know if there are ways we can en encourage information sharing that'll benefit both sectors. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
>> I thank the gentle lady and I recognize a gentleman from California, Mr. Tako. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you to the witnesses for being here. Mr. Frasier, I would like to begin with you. In your testimony, you predict that AI will generally accelerate workforce trends that were quote already underway
before chatbt end quote. You predict that the future of work will look far more like a gig economy than a multi-deade career at a single firm. Can you expand on the workforce trends you described that will be accelerated by AI?
>> Yes, thank you very much for that question, Congressman. Uh I want to start first with the trend that we're seeing called fissering. Uh fissurerine was coined by David Wheel who's a member of the department of labor last administration. And this is the idea that we're seeing more and more lead companies. Think massive Fortune 500
company segmenting off certain tasks and skills to what he labels subsidiary organizations. So that janitorial service that used to work at Alphabet, for example, is now purely done on a contractual basis, not housed within Alphabet itself. As we see this
fissuring of the economy, the result is that these subsidiary organizations are held to high standards of efficiency and effectiveness, which means they need to find laborers who can come help out on a project to project or short-term basis and fulfill that very specific niche uh
skill portfolio. So as workers adjust to this fissuring concept and as they adjust to the fractionalization of work generally they'll need to maintain a portfolio of skills so that when the next opportunity pops up or that new project arises they're able to find a uh
organization that wants to hire them for that purpose. >> And this is what you mean by the gigification of work that there's a series of gigs. Uh I'm not sure if I use that term, but if I did, yes. Um so the gigification will result uh more or less in people not working for a single
entity for multiple years. Uh I will point out we're already seeing this for example among Gen Z. The average job tenure of a member of Gen Z within the first five years of their career is 1.1 years. They're not sticking around for a very long time. Well, so to clarify, you're saying that with the inte with
with the integration of AI into workplaces, American workers will have much more varied employment structures and arrangements and less of the traditional 9 to5. Is that correct? >> Very much correct. I think we already see, for example, that there are 71 million workers who have opted into uh
independent work. >> Okay. Well, given those rap rapid changes to the labor market and whether Americans thrive or not will depend on whether labor laws and protections evolve alongside the economy. uh this graph that I have behind me uh shows the trends of in the US labor productivity
uh about labor productivity over the last 50 years with this orange line here uh you know showing uh that productivity it's a shows an increase uh Mr. Fraser, what would you project uh the that orange line, that orange productivity
line to look like over the next 50 years if we continue on our current trajectory with the implementation of of of AI? >> I would project that we continue to see increases in labor productivity over time. As we've noted previously, economists are looking at the integration of AI into the workplace and
we're seeing that in many regards, it's augmenting work, increasing productivity because AI is not at a point where it's automating every single task. Instead, it's leaving a number of tasks that require human in intervention, making those tasks more valuable and more renumerative.
>> Well, so we can expect that productivity to increase potential, but some would say even exponentially. Um, that the line that I'm concerned with, however, the most is the blue dotted line, uh, which which represents real hourly compensation. As you can see, workers wages have not kept up with the
increases in their productivity. In fact, they've increased only about 30% in 50 years, while productivity has increased by nearly 90%. This huge disparity has been a major factor in the increase of wealth inequality in the United States. And as we speed toward a
future in which AI is a standard feature of the workplace, we must ensure that the benefits of this increased productivity are reaped by the workers, not just tech executives and the shareholder class. Although AI rep presents it presents an enormous opportunity, the real risks of worker
displacement and increased wealth inequality must be addressed head-on. Mr. Chair, I ask for unanimous consent to enter this letter from the uh from ASME on behalf of 1.4 million uh of their members underscoring this point. >> Without objection. >> Now, one clear solution uh is through
the strengthening of labor protections. a higher minimum wage, increased overtime threshold, protected uh and protect and protected right to organize uh will be uh the will be key to uh ensuring that AI benefits all of us rather than than making this gap um this
gap here larger. Uh my 32-hour work week proposal, the my 32-hour work week bill addresses the need for greater work protections in the new economy, uh the new American economy. My bill, which will be reintroduced this year, would amend the Fair Labor Standards Act to
make the standard work week 32 hours rather than the 40 hours with no reduction in pay. If the future of work is one with much higher output per worker, varied employment arrangements, and a trend toward a gig economy, then our baseline labor laws must adapt as
well. AI presents an enormous opportunity for American workers, but AI should be seen as a tool uh that works for workers and not again instead of against them. Uh thank you and I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. Uh just to make
sure I took notes correctly, Mr. Frasier. Fissering or fittering. >> Fissering. >> Fissering. >> Fissering. Yes. >> Yeah. I uh I'm still hurting from the Michigan's loss to your school. So I was >> blame blame Arch Manning on that one.
Not not my fault. >> Okay. So Fissering. Thank you. Now I recognize the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Goffman. >> Yeah. Miss Nyak. Uh you talk a little bit about credentialism. How do you view a credential or um what
does that mean? I mean, if I'm looking to hire somebody and I want to know if they're familiar um with with this um new certifications, who who determines this?
>> So, thank you, Congressman. Uh for the credentials that we're building here at OpenAI, um what we're hoping to do is create several credentials. um an AI foundation's credential and then credentials that are focused on industries >> and who runs these things. >> Um OpenAI is running it but with a
partnership of employers um NOS's as well as universities. Um and we're kind of partnering across a coalition to build credential. >> And how do you envision that I succeed in that credential? Do I have to take a class? Do does my employer just say
Glenn knows how to do this. He does it very well. We think he's okay. I mean, credentialism is always a potential problem. I think I I don't like it, but I just wondered how, say, five years from now, how do you get an AI
credential? Going to college, you know, um being trained at work, how do you envision that? >> Yeah, thank you, Congressman. The the way that we think about credentials is we have a course that's structured and it's actually accessible on ChatGBT. So
chat GBT is actually taking that curriculum, personalizing it to the user, understanding their needs and then it's um actually judging them on their ability to retain the material similar to how a teacher would in a class. Um the difference is that it's immensely
scalable because anyone can access it. Um and uh you know it's personalized to them >> and and therefore it's something that is unrelated to say what we have a formal college degree today. It could actually be related. So, a lot of credentials.
>> It wouldn't have to be. I'll put it that way. It wouldn't have to be. >> Correct. It wouldn't have to be. >> Okay. Um, I'll ask the other couple. You We'll move over one. Do you think we need more credentialism in this field? >> And I'll put it this way. when you see
people being hired. >> Mhm. >> Um, is the employer looking for some sort of credential or is it just I'm looking at your resume and you say you're Mr. an expert in AI. That's good. You you must be doing in your current
job right now. How how is an AI skill being determined? >> Yeah. So internally, we're a fast growing company and we're hiring folks and we certainly value uh certain skills uh like potential potentially the use of
generative AI. One component of all of our interviews and our processes is doing on the job work as a part of the process. We pay uh prospective employees for that work. Um, and we don't prohibit them from using generative AI in that
work, but rather than uh saying you can or cannot use it, we're saying what's the quality of the final outcome. If you use generative AI a lot and the final outcome of that product is really high quality, fantastic. If you didn't use it at all and it's super high quality, fantastic. Um, but the the focus is on
the quality of the work rather than whether or not you use generative AI. >> Okay. So you have there's no credential right now and it it doesn't affect how your business operates. Mr. Frasier, same kind of same questions down that line. >> Yeah. So something I think that's important to add to this conversation,
Congressman, is the importance of thinking about alternative ways for uh firms to experience bringing on a new employee, for example, through apprenticeships. Right now we have about 600,000 apprenticeships across the US. I think we could drastically increase that
number to make sure that folks have an on-ramp to demonstrating and showing their capacity of certain skills. I'd also argue that in this context, we always have to be asking compared to what. Right now, our main credentiing approach is through four-year universities. Um, I'm not going to talk
about my own uh curve that I have to apply to my tests, but I'll tell you that at other universities, you will find uh at the end of the term, a professor has one of two options, A or B. And so when everyone has a 4.0, uh it's very difficult to assess if that
200 grand in higher education was worth the signaling costs. >> Okay. Now, I'll give you another question on AI. As we generate things, uh there can be a viewpoint with what is generated. It could be affect how one
looks at religion. It could affect how someone looks at politics. It could affect how someone looks at history. And one of the things that scares me as people get a hold of this that uh you'll affect or you'll push a politically correct
view on all these topics. Is this a concern? And how do we deal with it? Uh briefly I'll say this is very much a concern. I think that how you make a cake is the same way you make AI. It involves a lot of ingredients and involves a lot of taste and the
different tastes of certain individuals will manifest in that outcome. The best way forward though isn't to impose certain top- down views on what models have to do or what they must be trained by. But in my opinion fostering competition in the same way you walk down a movie aisle and you can find a
movie for every taste or for every genre. We should make it so that American consumers have access to a wide range of tools with a wide range of perspectives. >> The gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize the gentle lady from Georgia, Miss McBth. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to
our witnesses for being here today. Uh there are few issues that stand to be as impactful to our society as AI projects to be in the coming decades. will look >> from our schools to our job sites and hospital systems and everything in
between. AI is already changing not just the activities that people do in these places but how we do them. We are living through another industrial revolution so to speak and Congress must provide clarity which are hope hope we're able
to do today for states and ensure that Americans understand how to make I AI work best for them. In Gwynette County in Georgia, where I I I reside, the largest school district in Georgia, kindergarteners at some schools have
already began to use AI uh combined with Legos in classroom to solve some problems. At five and six years old, uh they may not understand what AI stands for just yet, but they know how to use
it already and they understand that it will also be a big part of their future. Programs likewette's computer science for all ensure that children are made comfortable with using AI at a ye a very young age and that they understand how
important it is. Yet, these applications can also be used to make funny videos. But it is so important that we cut out the noise for our students and help them understand how our world is changing and
what it really means for them. AI has incredible potential to be a positive force in society, but that doesn't happen on its own. Congress must ensure that people who lose work and possibly their only source
of income because of these changes, they cannot be left behind. We've seen this before. We cannot allow what happened to the factories and the mills across this country to happen to other parts of our economy as well. When
these jobs die, the communities that rely on them, they die a slow death as well. drawn out deaths alongside them. The disappearance of good paying jobs that didn't require people to go into
huge amounts of debt to get them is why the American worker makes less today than they did in the 1990s. Is why there's so much frustration in this country about the cost of living. about how difficult it has become just
to afford the things that they used to used to be commonplace for middle and working families across this country. This can't be the norm when it comes to automation and dare I say innovation.
It has only become more expensive for people in this country to get the skills necessary to afford a decent life. And I'm deeply concerned that if the not implemented correctly, AI might not achieve its full potential to make make life better for people. Instead, it
could make it even more difficult for people just to provide for themselves or just to put food on the table. There are millions of Americans who've done everything right and have nothing in this country to show for it. Despite going to school, paying for a degree of
some kind, or learning directly on the job, so many Americans find themselves no closer to the financial freedom and independence they put all of their effort towards to begin with. With that comes feelings of shame, feelings of resentment towards
only our uh not only yourself but the system that you put faith in. Miss Reeve Given, what sectors of our economy and op and occupations are the most at risk for displacement? And can you give your best estimate for
when we might begin to see major disruptions or significant drops in the numbers of jobs that going that are going to be available for real people? >> Thank you for your question. And I think one of the the things that it ties together nicely from every witness down
this day is I think we're hearing that improved training in AI skills really matters, but it is only one piece of the pie. And if Congress only focuses on that piece, they are overlooking ways that we really can have an AI ready economy and society. To answer your question specifically on worker
displacement, this is less the focus of my organization, but of course we follow the research closely. And a lot of the research does focus on tasks such as in the office and administrative occupation sector. And so one of the unusual turns that we're seeing is that this is less
about the changing of jobs in kind of the factory worker space, although I think that may come as well. But most immediately with generative AI, we're seeing displacement of tasks um for things that do relate to kind of office administration, etc. Research from the Brookings report says that 30% of all
workers could see as many as 50% of their occupational tasks uh disrupted over time. And while that doesn't necessarily mean full displacement and as as Professor Frasier said, we're still seeing how the evidence bears out, this dis does point to significant changes, including in this class um of
administrative occupations which have been the pathway to upward mobility for many people across our society, including those without college degrees and overwhelmingly women as well. So it is a new group of people for whom we have to think about this significant transformational change. um those also
tend to be communities that are not organized by as a union or have representation and so again we need to think about how we protect those rights. >> Thank you very much and I am out of time. >> The gentle lady's time is expired. I now
recognize the gentleman from the mast's golf tournament and chair of the help subcommittee u Mr. Allen. Uh thank you chairman Wahberg for holding uh this hearing and I want to thank our witnesses for your
expertise on this important uh topic today. Uh Miss uh Nyak from OpenAI's perspective and we're talking about worker skills and cred credentials here. What would it
take uh for these skills and credentials to be more transferable across jobs, industries or regions? >> Thank you, Congressman. What we think will make these credentials really transferable and and certainly the way
that we're building them is we're building a foundational set of courses um that we're calling AI foundations, but then we're making it so that they can be adapted by industry. And so, as an example, um, we have our AI foundations course, but we're partnering with employers like Walmart and Lowe's
to think about how can we adapt that course to frontline workers? How can we adapt it to administrative workers and office workers? How can we adapt it to AI builders who are actually using AI to build tools for those workforces? And so, um, the way that we approach it is you build the foundation, but then with
AI, you can truly make those courses adaptable to different industries. >> Good. Uh, Mr. con. I've long believed in the importance of the family and education. Parents should make the final decision in their child's education and responsible parents are key to making
sure students get the education uh their children get the education they need. That principle is especially important when it comes to a to to AI because these tools can often be accessed in the home. What advice would you give to parents who want to make sure their
students are using AI responsibly? Uh thank you for the question, Congressman. For families, I think it's really important that they are having the conversation at the kitchen table. Uh you know, what are the ways that you're
seeing generative AI affect your life as a uh child in school? Some of the dangers that we've heard of generative AI today uh in the hearing are things that should be brought up and questioned and understood. Uh I think that uh
having generative AI be uh a topic of conversation and uh an education that is granted not only for teachers but also for families. Literacy for generative AI is incredibly important for uh for schools and teachers those who are you
know imparting this wisdom upon kids about how uh this technology works and the risks and benefits. uh but you know second to the teacher in the school the family also is a really important part of a child's uh success in the future. Uh I I'll speak to a just I'll try to
make this as quick as possible but a story from when I was a teacher uh uh this was right when social media was taking off. We were seeing cyber bullying uh rampant in our schools and families didn't know what to do. Their kids were coming home crying uh you know worried about you know are they going to
get bullied on Instagram or or Snapchat. And uh I actually held at our school building a uh an information session for families to teach them about the social media tools that their child their children were using that they were just happening under the feet of parents. They didn't even know that these uh this
is before Instagram had really taken off. Uh and you know helping parents become informed guardians of how they choose their own children's use or not use of technology. My recommendation was you probably shouldn't have your middle school child using these tech these uh
these apps. But you know with when you don't even know what those apps are, it becomes really really challenging. >> Uh the school building ends up again being a really powerful place for families to learn about this technology and to make their own informed choices about how their kids will or will not engage with technology. You know, so
many years later, we're seeing cell phone bans in schools. We knew this 20 years ago. We knew this shouldn't have been something that was a part of the school environment. We can't repeat the same mistakes of the past with generative AI. We need to get families informed, schools informed, teachers
informed. Um, and we can write a different uh script for the the future of how this technology plays out for our children. >> That's great. Well, thank you for sharing that that story. Uh, Mr. Frasier, uh, according to a poll published in October, 40% of American voters site cost of living concerns is
the number one issue in the upcoming midterm elections. You have made the case that AI will make life uh more affordable for everyday Americans. How do you believe this technology addresses affordability concerns and can you give some current examples uh or or examples
that come will come in the near future? We got about 22 seconds, sir. >> To describe the full benefits of AI in terms of affordability in 20 seconds is quite the tall order. I'll direct you to uh a oped from me and Adam the in the Hill on affordability and AI. For right
now, I'll just bring one very short story. Uh, the University of Texas at Houston Health System used AI to predict when folks were going to miss their appointments. They saved $250,000 in one quarter. Many Americans can't afford health care. We should be
exploring, for example, in healthcare how we can automate and improve uh scribing and so many activities that dr uh increase our medical costs. >> That's a great example. And be feel free to submit more in writing. uh it would that would benefit the commi committee. And Mr. Chairman, I apologize for
running over. I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Lee. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I represent Pittsburgh and Western Pennsylvania, a region that reflects both past innovation uh and manufacturing and
steel and of course future uh advancement and technology as an emerging artificial intelligence hub. So my district embodies the evolution of industry and the decking to new technologies and also represent communities that were left behind um by
innovations in industry, communities that are still reeling from harms uh and the legacy of redlinining and and underinvestment. Um so I'm here today to urge us to not repeat um some of the errors of the
past. AI's algorithms are trained with human data, right? We we we know and we can recognize that. So they learn every bias and every uh inequity that is already entrenched in our society and it is the responsibility uh of this body to
ensure that AI is not weaponized as the next tool to streamline systemic uh discrimination. Republicans love to talk about the cost of regulation that businesses will be bogged down when spending on compliance standards uh that will hinder innovation. But what about
the costs to say a child who was traumatized by a police encounter because their clarinet or a bag of chips was mistaken for a gun um by their AI's the school's AI weapon detection system or the child that will have AI generated
images of themselves uh living on into perpetuity on the internet that folks would be able to see for the rest of that child's life. for what about the person who's misidentified and then docks because a facial recognition system can't tell black people apart? What about a person who doesn't get a
job because of the AI screening tool uh being used discriminates against their application? How do we quantify those costs? Nearly uh 90% of companies are using some form of AI for initial job candidate screening. So, Miss uh Reeve Gibbons, are these companies required by
federal law to conduct ongoing audits of algorithmic bias or testing for compliance with for civil rights law? >> Not yet. Um but they are liable if they are discriminating against candidates. And so this is why it's in the interest of employers as well as workers for us
to have a far more rigorous approach to auditing requirements to transparency requirements so that employers too aren't buying snake oil products or products that are inadvertently or intentionally discriminating against people that are applying for jobs. >> Definitely and I appreciate that and I agree. But for those who aren't, you
know, how are we to be sure that the tools that they're using aren't exacerbating systemic in inequities and hiring? So there are a couple different pieces to this story and one is the urgency with which employers need to understand what is at stake when they are using these tools. The need for them
to use them responsibly and not just say that as a handwavy statement but genuinely take concrete actions. My organization and others have set out a good list of best practices. The EEOC, the Department of Labor have also put out similar guidance for employers on how to be compliant with employment laws and not discriminate. And the things
that they require are things like notice to workers so you know how you're being tested and knowing how you're being evaluated. Have you done appropriate auditing? Are you checking the system after it is being used in the workplace? All of these are very common sense things. It's not burdensome red tape. It is simple things to make sure that these
tools actually work in the way that they are intended and all workers can be considered equally. >> Thank you. And if I could add to that, um, the AI Civil Rights Act, the bill I introduced with Congress, uh, womanette Clark and Senator Ed Marky, and then the eliminating bias and algorithmic systems act is a bill that I'm going to be
introducing this week with Senator Marky. Again, it will put real guards in place that demand action towards transparency and accountability and strong civil rights protections because we we can't afford to do nothing here. Mr. Klein, last summer, Common Sense Media identified racial bias in Magic School's AI generated behavior
intervention plans. In light of these findings, of course, you all said that you were going to work to improve your bias detection systems. Yet, your website still lists both behavior intervention suggestions and behavior intervention generator under uh all teacher tools. Uh if I could ask, why hasn't Magic School removed the behavior
intervention tools as you work to ensure they're not racially biased? >> Uh thank you for the question, Miss Lee. I was sent in Pittsburgh recently meeting with educators who love magic school. um uh one uh we attempted to replicate the findings in that study
around uh racial bias in those tools. We were unable to rep replicate those findings but we did uh request um request from uh common sense uh their data. Um we still do not uh we still stand behind our tool. We don't believe that there is racial bias in our tools.
Uh but we do receive feedback. We serve schools and districts uh all over the country. I've worked in schools and districts all over the country and we value equity um and uh strive to remove bias in any of our tools. >> Thank you. I I I can appreciate that and I just hope for you obviously the sake
for the students that that is true because what was found there could be uh concerning but it also replicates some of the the findings that we have just in everyday interactions with students that students who are black or brown or poor or students with disability are more likely to be punished more harshly. Um,
so I wouldn't be shocked, but I I appreciate you all looking into that with urgency and also of course trying to innovate in ways that will be helpful in the future. It's important that we continue this work. It's important that we do it in responsible ways. Uh, with that, I yield back. >> I thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize the vice chairman of the committee as
well as the uh, subcommittee chair for higher education workforce development. Very interested in this topic. Uh, Mr. Owens. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And uh first of all, I appreciate this very timely um um hearing as we embark probably one of the
more exciting uh times in our history in our country's history. Um before I get started, I just wanted to um uh to talk about preparing for our muchneeded and robust workforce to highlight that the department of education uh launched the connecting talents for opportunity
challenge yesterday. It marks a crucial first step in modernizing our workforce by connecting the worker skills and credentials to education and job opportunities. I want to thank uh President Trump and and Secretary McMahon for their support on this initiative and look forward to uh to
seeing this further development. Uh Miss Nyak from from your work on on certification of job platforms, how important is interoperable learning and employment records for making AI uh enabled hiring actually work at scale?
Thank you, Congressman. Um, at OpenAI, we think interoperability is essential um for our credential work as well as for our jobs platform because it will mean that people can leverage multiple platforms. They can get educated, get skilled, but they can take it with them. Um, one of the things that we're doing
for our certifications platform is we are connecting to um, technologies that allow people to take their credentials with them and then they can use those um, across their resumes, across their portfolios um, with employers and employers will be able to also validate
those skills. Um, so we believe that interoperability is quite important. I >> I think that term should be uh, highlighted as something that the American people need to be educated on because we we hear that we talk about it. Um but we have no idea that the reason we can now talk from iPhone to Android is because of interoperability.
So uh very very important point. Um Mr. Khan uh I understand the uh immense potential that AI prevents presents in classroom for teachers and students. However, I know their concerns when teachers utilize tools uh that they are not experts in and when students employ
AI outside the educational uses. Uh I think you kind of touched on this a little bit earlier, but um how can schools better protect and prepare educators and students uh to use AI safely and uh constructive purposes on scale? We believe that it starts with uh
training educators, investing in educator literacy around generative AI, both you know how the technology works, uh the risks and benefits of the technology. um an informed educator, one who is equipped to answer questions for students who are in, you know, are
experiencing this technology whether they've chosen to or not, uh through uh platforms, not only like the generative AI platforms that we're talking about today, but also AI as it's embedded in their daily lives on platforms that they might not associated with this AI re uh
revolution, things like Tik Tok, >> Instagram, you know, how are algorithms uh you know, incentivized to keep you on the platform? form uh you know how are you experiencing generative AI in your daily life um I'm a big believer that a rich life is not staring at your cell
phone 247 a rich life is engaging in the world and sometimes when we can educate educators and they can inform students on how you know sometimes involuntarily you're finding yourself glued to a screen uh and it's because of AI algorithms that are powering this it empowers a student to make better
choices about how they engage with technology um and uh we we think that that it starts starts with educators and and bringing that to the forefront of an education. Technology is so embedded in our lives today and uh often uh as mentioned it's involuntary. So we need
to give students and teachers the information that creates agency for their own lives. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Faser, your in your written testimony re uh recommends that Congress thoroughly examine AI usage across the the economy to create evidence-based policies. What are some
of the re uh recommendations that you would offer to strengthen our uh data gathering efforts? >> Thank you very much for that question, Congressman. I think first and foremost, we need to make sure we're gathering data on a more frequent basis. We're seeing that AI tools of greater degrees of sophistication are being deployed at
a faster and faster pace. And so making sure that our data collection keeps up or at least attempts to keep up with that pace of AI development makes a tremendous amount of sense. I'd also say making sure we're collecting data from across the entire private sector. Right now, there's a lot of focus on how major
Fortune 500 companies are using AI, but we've long known that small businesses are the main driver of economic opportunity and job creation in our country. And so better understanding the fact that for example right now just 9% of small firms are using AI, we're missing out on tremendous potential to
help these entrepreneurs and innovators scale up their opportunities and hire more Americans. And then finally, I would make sure we're doing it in a way that's standardized and anonymized. Companies should not be punished for champion innovation and by leaning into AI. And so we need to make sure this data is stored and maintained and shared
in a way that champions innovation and doesn't punish those leading it. Thank you. And I agree the uh small business owners, that's where we drive our culture. So, we need to make sure they're part of this process. So, thank you so much. And I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I now recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina, Miss Adams.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses for being here. Um, artificial intelligence is already reshaping our classrooms and our workplaces, whe whether we're ready for it or not. Students are using it, employers are are using it, and the
federal government is still trying to catch up. Uh, in North Carolina, universities are racing to launch AI majors and research centers, not just to to meet the workforce demand, uh, but out of fear of being left behind. That urgency raises an important question.
Are we building sustainable pathways for students or simply chasing the next academic gold rush? Uh today I I I want to recognize uh Miss uh Vegina McCconor Jacobs who is the CEO of the National
School Board Association in the audience. I thank her for being here. She's a leading she's leading the charge to ensure that schoolboard members are also prepared to create AI policy in in K12 schools. And thank you so much for being here. Uh building an AI ready
America isn't just about speed. It's about trust. It's about fairness. And who gets left behind when decisions are automated without guardrails. And that's where this conversation matters. So, let me just turn to our witnesses, Miss Miss
Reeve Given. Um, a recent survey found that 62% of higher education leaders estimate that fewer than half of their faculty are using AI tools while students are adopting them rapidly, often without guidance. And from your
your perspective, what risk does this uneven adoption create for students and educators? and and how should institutions and the federal government think about supporting responsible AI use without forcing adoption or or or
lowering academic standards. >> When we think about how to make sure that AI brings everybody along across our society and economy, I think there are two different ways to think about this. One is about equitable access. Who can use these tools? Who are getting the skills and the benefits? and two is
making sure that these schools aren't unintentionally creating uh greater divides either through discrimination or bias or harmful uses of of this technology. And we need to make sure we're focusing on both. So the first about equitable access, our research shows that even as we studied K-
through2 schools, 85% of teachers and 86% of students are using AI, there are big discrepancies when you start going in on a geographic basis um and on an income level as well. And so how do we think about the digital divide and guess addressing those gaps on the difference
that you described in colleges of students getting more familiar with this technology than their professions may well be. All of this comes again to the notion of how do you prepare educators to be teaching the workers and the citizens of tomorrow and realizing that they do need to become familiar with this technology. And again the point I
made earlier this is not just about the tips and tricks to make AI help you do your job better although that is very important. It is also taking a more sophisticated understanding of how AI is transforming learning and mitigating potential risks. >> Right. Thank you. The the Center for Democracy and Technology has been been
tracking the use of of automated decision tools, systems that make high stakes decisions without hiring, promotions, or access to credit, often without human review. So, what concerns you most about the use of these tools in the workplace? And do you believe that
the federal government has a role in setting baseline protections so that that automation does not quietly reproduce discrimination or or shut out workers uh in terms of opportunity. >> The use of AI in hiring and other decisions about employment is rapidly
proliferating and of course there are efficiency reasons why employers are motivated to use these tools. But if the tools aren't reg rigorously examined and tested, there are real risks of them perpetuating discrimination uh because they are learning based on the historical data of who has been employed
or also perpetuating snake oil. In my testimony, I talked about an AI video interview. This is a real example where the person spoke in German instead of English and was still deemed a good match for the job. This tells you that employers don't necessarily know what they're buying. Workers definitely don't know what they're being tested about.
And so transparency, rigorous testing, and then avenues for redress are hugely important. >> Thank you. So quickly, how should policymakers think about preparing students for an AIdriven economy in a way that emphasizes AI literacy, critical thinking, and ethics rather
than narrow technical skills that may quickly become obsolete. >> Um, I'm not an educator, but my impression is parents, teachers, and students care about this a lot. And one of the things we need to focus on is realizing AI is a tool. you are still the person that needs to be engaging in
critical thought. And so understanding that comprehensive approach of when AI can help, but also its inherent limitations and the need for safeguards to make sure that it's being used responsibly and well, that is the complete package that we need to make sure teachers are being resourced uh to
provide to their students as well as of course using these tools responsibly themselves when they're using it in an education setting. >> Great. Thank you very much. I'm out of time, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. I thank the gentle lady and I recognize the subcommittee chairman of early childhood elementary and secondary
education, the gentleman from California, Mr. Kylie. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I wanted uh Ms. Nyak to ask you a little bit about the uh the certification uh program that open a eye has which I think is is really interesting uh in equipping people with um uh you know the skills to
effectively use AI tools in the workplace. It seems that one of the challenges you face is that uh you know the capabilities are continually uh increasing and uh you know you guys are always putting out new models and new features. Uh and so you know what a
certification certifies today may you know uh not necessarily reflect um what use can be made of your tools uh you know a week from now, a month from now, a year from now. So, how do you manage the certification program in light of
the everinccreasing capabilities of your models? >> Congressman, this is something that we talk about quite a bit internally and um there's two modes but that we're going to use to address this. One is um you're you're certainly correct that you know
we release new models, we release new tools and technologies pretty much on a weekly basis. We talk a lot internally about how we can make sure that our courses can actually adapt as we actually introduce these new tools. Um AI is actually helping us do that where we're working rapidly to leverage AI and
building these courseworks just like we put it in the hands of teachers um to be able to build these courses to be able to adapt as fast as possible to the new products that we're putting out. So that's number one is actually having the course grow with the technology. Number two is when we think about actually um
giving someone a certification, how do we make sure that that certification follows them as technology changes rather than you know they get the certification once and then they're done and um then three months from now they no longer have that skill. The way that we're thinking about it is unlike
certifications today which are a course that you take an endost that you get and then you get that certification. Our certifications will actually grow with the user as they use chat GPT. Our north star there, we're not there yet, but we're hoping to get there as fast as possible, is actually enabling people to
get certified as they're leveraging the platform. So that certification will actually assess over time that they're actually building the new skills as the technology is changing. And so we're really hopeful about that. Um we think that we can use AI as a tool to actually um grade and certify people along the
way so that it is actually pretty nimble to the technology as well. >> Yeah, very interesting. And um uh I know what a challenge that must be. Um you talked about the capability overhang when it comes to adoption uh in in industry. I think there's also something maybe uh more extreme uh overhang when
it comes to the the policy side of things uh where a lot of the debates we have are about uh you know a state of the technology that we've already uh passed. Um so on the education subcommittee we've been looking at AI and education and I'm very optimistic about the opportunity. I want to bring
you into this as well Khan uh of AI in in education to uh close achievement gaps and to uh really transform uh learning but uh you know sort of by definition we're only able to look at what current tools are being used to do. So um I'll start with you Mrs. Nyak and then would love to hear your thoughts
Mr. Khan. Um does open AAI have a vision for sort of 5 years from now given what the capabilities the new modalities we might have the different interfaces rather than just the chat bot uh interface what education might look like in an AI uh you know with the prog
progression of AI tools um and then I'll uh go have your thoughts as well Mr. K. >> Thank you Congressman. Yes. So we think that AI will augment the systems and structures that we have in place and ideally make them a lot more personalized and a lot more focused on
the individual learner. And I think that we're already certainly seeing this with um efforts like Magic School. And so um what we're doing is a is um in a couple of lanes. One is that we actually need to teach teachers how to use our tools so that they can actually design curriculum that leverages AI and help
their students learn AI as well. Um if we do that then we can have certifications courses or even students can bring their curriculum from their schools into AI and they can get personalized support and we think with that we can actually um grow the ability of teachers to impact so many more
students because it's like every student can get a personalized tutor and um I think in the past you know that was only accessible to the select few who had the means to be able to do that um with workers and with students again um we think that AI will be able to support
them in personalization. So, we're already seeing this trend. Um 30% of conversations today are people actually going to chat GBT to learn and um that's across workers, students. Um what we see is that we're actually allowing access to education in a level never have seen
before. And then if we can capture what people are learning as they have access, we think that we'll have um kind of a microscope into what people actually know in a way that we never had before. >> I know we're running short on time. I think you know the example I gave earlier around uh personalized writing
feedback for every single student at scale can move outcomes for students. We've seen test scores improve uh when a student gets personalized writing feedback rather than uh you know in the moment that they finish writing something rather than waiting two or three weeks for their teacher to get them feedback uh on the essays that
they've given. So we have this personalized learning AI tutoring type aspect that is true today. I think the way schools look, you know, five years from now is a lot more projectbased where students can be equipped with generative AI tools and be centered in the classroom as builders. They're
building and manifesting their own creative work because they have these tools of the future alongside them. They can build their own apps. They can help their their dad was an HVAC technician. I would have helped him build his website for uh his business and maybe the CRM that uh helped him to keep track
of his clients. So, lots of builder experiences we see in the future. Thank you. I think it's very exciting we get it right. I yield back to the chair. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentleman from California, Mr. Donier. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you so much for this hearing. I'm filled
with uh possibilities and anxiety about our testimony. I appreciate all of you. I also want to point out to the chair and thank you for two of your witnesses are graduates of the University of California in Berkeley, a neighbor. So, don't know if you were >> we we planned that.
>> Yeah. and Miss Dyk is a constituent who doesn't live far from me. Um, so in the context of the apprehension, uh, Pew says that one in five American jobs will be displaced by AI. Um I think Rand well
I know Rand did a study that said one in eight adolescents asked for mental health advice through chat uh box and that 40 50% of students feel uh disconnected from their schoolroom environment and their teachers because
of AI. So that creates my apprehension um a proud representative of a Bay Area district which happens to be the fifth wealthiest in the country. A lot of that driven by technology and people like Miss Nyak who um live where a lot of
this is happening. But I also grew up in LOL Massachusetts listening to my grandparents tell generational stories about working in the mills and technology and both how that was beneficial but it took a long time for America to catch up to some of the
downfalls and enact minimum wage standards and child labor laws. So, I feel like we're in one of those moments. I have a lot of young people, uh, tell me about ghost jobs. Um, so, Miss Given, first, are we remotely prepared in your
opinion? Sorry to use that word. Um, just in terms of our social safety net, our workforce development, and I can see it happening right now when I hear young people talk about ghost jobs that they just they're applying and the algorithms are just dismissing them. And we know
from research that up to half of those jobs aren't real. That they're just people collecting data. And because social media is protected by section by being immune from section 230 amongst other reasons, this is exponentially getting worse. So, ghost jobs and how
young people are so disaffected um from just trying to get jobs, particularly people who have taken on large student debt because they've been promised if they get a good education there's great opportunity for them. >> Uh thank you for the question and uh I
think one of the things to focus on here is just the incredible rate of change, right? >> It took over two decades for personal computers to be widely adopted. The adoption of generative AI by people has been significantly faster more you know over a billion users in the first four months of rollout in ways that speak to
the promise of the technology but also the speed with which we need to adapt. pulling on a couple of the threads in your question. This this role of, you know, AI in hiring. So, yes, ghost jobs one part of the problem also people, you know, you throw your resume into a pile and have no idea how you're being
evaluated even when it is a real employer at the other end of the funnel, but how are you being evaluated? How are you being assessed? These video interviews where you're just being interviewed by an AI system without having any sense of of what the outcome is going to be. That is one significant piece. It's also a clear intervention
point. The US has employment discrimination laws. We have robust laws here, but we need a lot more transparency for those laws to actually be enforced as well as a functioning equal employment opportunity commission. The other part that I will add is the the the world that Professor Frasier was describing about gigation and what the
future of the economy is going to look like. There are real trade-offs when you think about career pathways, what professional development looks like, the community and identity that we get from being part of a workplace, and of course the questions around worker power. So
what does it mean to have a fair wage and to be able to negotiate when, as is already happening in some places, you're bidding for a job? You're bidding for a shift. The person that agrees to either take the most immediate uncomfortable time or to be paid the least as the person that gets that job. So, this is
where our social safety net and our employment laws really have to accelerate rapidly to be able to keep up with that new world order and make sure that we're thinking not only about productivity gains for the economy, but what does a resilient, self-sufficient, independent workforce look like, what is
it for workers to have dignity and what are the safeguards that we need to help empower them in that way. >> Miss Dak, because you're a constituent, I want to ask you a question. Um, I think of Emily Bender's work from the University of Washington. in her book is titled AICON and she gives the history about how private equity gets most of
the benefit historically in our country. So I've worked with the tech companies I've worked with Facebook but the promise and not inhibiting innovation that challenge I've always felt uh but self-regulation hasn't worked either. So could you address that very briefly?
>> Thank you Congressman. Yes, I I we do agree that there could be a capability overhang where you do have this distance between the halves and the have nots that can leverage AI versus those that cannot. And we think we're actually at a very critical moment to
address that overhang and that certifications and the ability to upskill people to be able to leverage AI, whether they be a small business owner, whether they be a student, um whether they be, you know, someone working in big tech, um is critical and that's what we're invested in. So I
think the the summary is that yes, you're 100% correct. We need to make sure that this technology is accessible to everyone. And we think one of the ways that we can do that is by providing them the tools to learn about it, to use it in their everyday lives, and then hopefully to profit from it. Um not just, you know, the large corporations.
>> So now that I know you're a neighbor, we'll finish this conversation. You probably will regret meeting me, but >> thank you. The gentleman's time is expired. I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Ander. >> Thank you, Mr. chairman and thanks to all the witnesses for appearing before
the committee today. Um I'm very interested in what AI might have to offer to improve education. Of course AI I think has an an enormous potential in various areas of our economy to improve productivity. for example, as a physician. Um, one of you alluded to
radiology, pathology is another area where AI can make the radiologist and pathologists more productive and you know and and let's face it, not miss um some things that if it were just the naked eye. um as well as decreasing
administrative burden. It seems like more documentation is required by the by the year to uh uh to make the electronic health records happy. Um but I am concerned though about potentially unintended consequences of AI specifically in education because we are
dealing here with young people. Um, you know, a teacher recently told the New York Times, quote, "The amount of time my students are inclined to work on something that challenges them has become much shorter over the past few years. There was a time when a typical student would wrestle with a concept for
days before getting it. Now, if that student doesn't understand something within minutes, they're more likely to give up and look for an alternative, i.e. asking a chatbot." You know, the ranking member Scott cited an article from NPR uh today. Um it was
citing um a study by Brookings. Brookings um uh did focus groups around the country, around the world, 50 different countries of parents, students, educators, and tech experts. Um as well as a literature review of
hundreds of research articles. And um it it found some positives and negatives. One of the positives was that AI can help children learn to read and write and that's of course great. Uh at the same time um the study uh concluded in
part AI poses a grave threat to children's cognitive development. Um the concern was a quote doom loop of AI dependence where students increasingly offload their own thinking uh onto technology leading to a kind the kind of
cognitive decline or atrophy more commonly associated with the aging brain and and they commented other technologies can do that too for instance word processors um but it it's on steroids with AI you know and my concerns I don't mean to pick on pick on
my AI experts here because I have similar concerns about smartphones, about about social media. You know, Steve Jobs in 2010 was asked by the New York Times, "How do your how do your children like the iPad?" He said, "My children don't have an iPad." And we
know many technology um uh executives, Bill Gates, Neil Mohan, uh others have have limited their kids use of of technology. But I I'd ask I ask my witnesses, I'll start with you, Miss Nyak. uh how do we harness the potential
benefits of AI in education and yet protect our kids from the risk of of overdependence and of um and I even have concerns just if the if the computers in front of the child every day you know 20 it seems almost 247 how do you how do
you protect kids from all the uh horrific stuff we know is on the internet >> thank you congressman um first I want to start that openai agrees with you that we do really need to invest in protecting our youth and making sure that they use our technology for their
benefit versus their harm and um we're putting a lot of work that's not my area of expertise, but we are putting a lot of work as a company into making sure that there are those guardrails. Um I do want to address kind of your statistics on AI usage and and the harm it could cause. Um we're also seeing that it
could cause immense benefit. Um we're seeing that one quarter of um 18 to 24 year olds use AI every day to help with their learning. Um that's about just general questions, tutoring, schoolwork. Um we're also seeing that um for instance, a study from Harvard
University found that a physics class that actually had a tailored curriculum that was focused on using chat GPT found that um students actually doubled their engagement and actually improved their problem solving skills. And so I think you're right that if teachers um inadvertently kind of have students
using AI, there could be ways where they cheat or they use it in in ways that weren't um kind of meant for the course. But if teachers can actually augment their curriculum to integrate it, um I do think that there's promising ways that they could actually increase engagement, increase critical thinking and problem solving.
>> And I do want to uh also point out I I continue to be concerned about political and ideological bias in AI. Of course, President Trump on July 23rd issued an executive order preventing woke AI in the federal government. But uh as of
this week, in fact, as of yesterday, I did an AI search and uh I was I was pretty darn clear about what I was looking for and it returned uh results biased uh against what I was looking for. So, um unfortunately, I'm I'd love to hear your response, but I'm out of
time. Thank you so much, and I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize now the educator from Connecticut, Mrs. Hayes. >> Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Advanced
technologies like AI are rapidly being integrated into the classroom and can enhance teaching and learning. It can also be difficult for teachers and administrators to navigate evolving AI technologies and to use them safely and effectively.
Miss Reed Given, in your testimony, you state that, quote, "Fewer than half of teachers and students report they have received some training or information on AI use in class, well below the reported use of this technology." Mr. Khan, in your testimony, you state, quote,
"Teachers need support to understand where AI is helpful, where it can fail, and how to supervise its use effectively." I agree with both of you. Um, and I was listening just now to you, Miss Nyak, when you you talked about
teachers getting training to get certified in AI. I have to frame my questions with the caution that while I understand this is important. I mean, I'm a certified classroom teacher. We had a a component in special education. Now, a layer on AI, and we're having
conversations where we don't even want to pay teachers what they deserve to begin with, but continue to add on all of these layers. And I did chuckle a little, Mr. Khan, when you said students have to wait two to three weeks for feedback on an essay. For the record, no
student in my class ever had to wait two to three weeks for feedback on an essay. And that time where I gave feedback, not just what my comments were, but why I made them in a one-on-one setting was valuable and promoted student interaction. I would set a day aside and
either call students up to my desk one at a time or go around the classroom and talk them through the edits, not just make edits on paper. Um, but I understand that this is technology that we have to embrace and kind of learn and grow with it. I do have serious concerns
though about the expectation of classroom teachers to integrate these things. So my question um, Miss Re uh, Ree Given or Mr. Khan, whoever, what are the most beneficial professional development and training tools to
support teachers and administrators in effectively integrating AI technology and schools? And where do we need to allocate more attention or resources to support the educators who will now be tasked with not only the technology, but
the integrity, the ethics surrounding it, and all of those components that come with it. Because when I went, all of my degrees are in education, history, uh, curriculum and instruction, uh, educational leadership, but this is
literally a whole area all by itself that classroom teachers are going to be expected to be responsible for. >> Uh, thank you for the question, Congresswoman. Uh, respectfully, all my degrees are also in education. I was also a high school English teacher.
>> So, you get it. And I do I do get it uh in public schools and uh I um uh recognize that you know teachers already have a immense amount of burdens and training that they are already needing to um be equipped with in their daily
work as educators. I think to to answer your question the things that they can benefit the most from are you know the way that we work with schools and districts that we partner with is first we give them kind of a baseline education on how this technology works. uh here are some suggested use cases on how this could be used powerfully. Here
are the risks associated with those things. And we also empower the local districts leadership, the champions, maybe the technology leaders in the district, maybe uh a department chair in English and they can talk about how uh to your point, you know, it is still really important that the student is
hearing from the teacher about, you know, the how the strengths of their essay, the areas that they have to grow and how can AI be a part of that story rather than the full story. Realistically, how often would that training need to be updated because this technology is evolving so quickly?
>> Yeah. I don't think >> literally you'd have to have professional development every week. >> Yeah. I don't think it's a singular training. I think it's uh just like you know as in our work as educators, we had department meetings every every uh you know for for me in the school that I worked in, we had a department meeting every month and here's what's new,
here's some things that you can use in your classroom. Um but I think forcing this on teachers in terms of how you utilize it in your classroom uh has never worked top down. Um in terms of a baseline education around it, helping you understand what you can and can't
and shouldn't do. And then equipping you with the agency to make your own choices as a teacher is I think something that I've always advocated for as a teacher is we trust teachers. We empower them with knowledge and then we trust them to make good decisions. Um that that's what I would encourage. Well, I guess just
like five minutes is not enough time to question witnesses on this topic. I don't think we are adequately positioned to require teachers to be responsible for this in the classroom. Um, I'm sorry, Miss Reeves, I've run out of time. I I yield back.
>> I thank the gentle lady. I recognize now the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harris. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you to all of our panelists today and the witnesses for uh your expertise and and what you've been able to share. and some very important insights I think and
a lot of food for thought that we've we've heard today. Um Mr. Frasier, I want to just start with you. I I hear predictions, it's been mentioned even here today that AI could replace millions of jobs in the next decade. Some lawmakers and a number of pundits
say that we should impose a tax on employers who adopt AI to replace workers. Now, I know from my research you have publicly opposed this so-called robot tax, and I want to just uh take a moment and give you an opportunity to
explain why you think a robot tax is a bad way to protect American workers. >> Thank you for that opportunity, Congressman. I think that a robot tax is very well-intentioned, like a number of economic policies, making sure that Americans, as we've heard throughout this hearing, thrive in an era of new
technology. But the American way has never been to be scared of technology. nor nor to prevent investment in the technologies of the future. If we want to not only create a thriving economy, but also to realize that we're competing in an international space where we're
not seeing China, for example, impose attacks on its robots. What are they doing? They're investing in creating the next generation of robots that are going to lead to new innovations, new economies, and new sectors. And so on the uh domestic front we need to similarly recognize that when
productivity increases, yes we may see differences in whether that allocation is going more towards capital, more towards labor, but a net increase in productivity over time increases the whole economic pie and that's what we should be focused on. There's no clause
in the constitution that says everyone has a right to the specific job they were born in. Just ask the horse pooper scoopers, right? they don't still walk around the streets of New York cleaning up. Uh so what we need to focus on is creating mechanisms and pathways for opportunity.
>> Do you have any specific ways that you might suggest that Congress steps we could take to protect workers instead of this tax? >> So first and first and foremost, I think that we need to empower American workers by moving towards a portable benefit system. Right now there's a real sense
of what economists will refer to as job lock. folks feel stuck in their job because that's predominantly where they get their benefits from. If we want to make sure that Americans can thrive in this more fluid and dynamic economy, then it's important that they're able to take their savings, their time off from
job to job, and in that way we can facilitate that economy. >> Gotcha. Thank you very much. Mr. Khan. Um, I know you've had direct engagement with the White House AI Education Task Force, which has made a notable effort to thoughtfully engage educators,
parents, and federal uh, leaders. In fact, uh, in July of 2025, as Ari mentioned earlier, the administration released America's AI action plan. I want to just give you a few moments from your perspective. What stood out about how this administration is approaching
AI literacy and safety especially in preparing young people for the future? >> Yeah, in in the committee I heard uh the folks around the table really focused on protecting children. Uh there were there was a lot of conversation around the
idea um of how we've seen technology affect children in our in in recent memory with uh things like the way that social media has affected children in negative ways. Um the way that we've now seen, you know, full circle schools banning cell phones in schools. There
was a remark made about uh how we we don't think that kids should be staring at their laptops every single day, but we think that technology is inevitable. Uh it it will be in our children's lives. So, um you know, there there's a lot of conversation of how can we make
sure that both educators and families are equipped with the knowledge to make decisions about how they use technology. uh you know freedom is only freedom when you have information when you have agency when you understand something um
and and that's what I heard the focus being on in that meeting which I was heartened by. >> Excellent. Well, thank you very much and uh to all of you uh for your time that you've shared and Mr. Chairman, I'll yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. Now I recognize a
gentle lady from Arizona, Miss Ghava. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, the rapid advancement of AI necessitates an acknowledgement of the profound ripple effects this emerging technology creates across society. While these issues may transcend the immediate scope of this
committee, we must address the exploitation of intellectual property, privacy violations stemming from mass data collection, and the spread of misinformation. Furthermore, the integration of AI introduces significant security risks, a lack of algorithmic
transparency, and severe environmental consequences due to excessive consumption of energy and water. As we navigate these changes, it's essential to remain vigilant regarding the risks and inequities that AI can introduce into our foundational systems. in
Tucson, Arizona. Um we had a proposal for an AI site and overwhelmingly the community rejected it and will not be being built within um Tucson, Arizona, but it's moving on to other areas. And so I think it's
important for us to think about all of the the um the things I just mentioned. Puma Community College, also in Tucson, Arizona, serves as a critical workforce pipeline for first generation students and working adults. Through partnerships with regional employers, the college provides the job aligned training
required for a landscape where AI is reshaping everyday work. To ensure a resilient future, we must support these institutions in delivering the skills necessary for a modern economy while remaining focused on the risks inherent to um in the hiring process and in the
classroom. So, this would be a question for Miss Reef Given. Um, what specific federal investments would most effectively enable community college colleges like Puma to quickly expand AI related certificates across fields such as healthcare, manufacturing, and IT?
And how can institutions ensure they are balancing the potential benefits of these tools with the risks of using AI for sensitive educational tasks such as tracking student progress or developing individualized education programs? Um, thank you for the question. Mr.
Harris alluded to some of the energy that is coming out of the current administration, including a focus on ramping up AI adoption in education. That creates an important opportunity, provided we are thinking about distributing that opportunity fully and equally across the country and reaching communities that really need it most.
>> It's also an important moment to think not only about AI adoption, but responsible AI adoption. In 2025, the Department of Education put out respon uh principles for responsible AI use that have a lot of good content in there. We have advocated for the administration to follow those own
guidelines put out by its own department of education uh in the roll out of those plans and opportunities. Um the other piece that I would add here, you were very right in your opening to touch on some of the other issues have not raised by the committee yet today. Cyber security threats that schools are facing the privacy concerns. Just to pause for
a moment on the cyber security threats. In our recent research, 23% of teachers reported that their school experienced a largecale data breach. In the last school year alone, cyber security analysts report 4,000 schools experiencing data breaches in a
particular week. And as AI use increases, we're sharing even more data about students, even more personal information that becomes vulnerable to that harm. Yet, right now, the administration has pulled back its funding for SIZA, the government agency that supports this work, and ended the multi-state information sharing program
that helps schools uh school districts respond to these threats. So those are the types of places that might not be top of mind but really need to be when we think about school readiness, school preparedness and making sure that educators again not only are learning about the potential of AI and thinking about its use in the classroom but
actually are equipped to navigate this transformation and get the full benefit that they deserve. >> Thank you. Did anyone want to add anything to to that question? Okay. Um I don't know. All right. What safeguards should Congress include to ensure AI workforce investments are broadly
accessible to community colleges outside of major technology hubs like Puma in Tucson? And given the active litigation against workday involving allegations that algorithmbased screening tools systematically discriminated against applicants, what can be done to the
algorithms underlying these tools to ensure that they do not have a disperate impact on our graduates because of their age, disability, race, gender, or other protected characteristics? >> Sure. I'm happy to talk briefly about some of the the lessons from a
litigation that workday is facing right now about discrimination through hiring tools that it was used without specifically commenting on the merits of that case which um continue to be ongoing. It's a really important wakeup call not only to employers about how these tools can perpetuate
discrimination and also the role of the vendors that are developing these tools as well. Um this includes questions like how easily and rapidly people are being dismissed based on protected characteristics. Um one of the things that I think is important for Congress to know is yes we do have existing
employment laws that can be brought to bear in these cases. But it is very hard to actually discover these instances and to prove these cases because of the lack of transparency and visibility. It used to be there was a bad apple in HR and you could maybe trace back how an interview went badly or you know what
might have happened just from studying the results of one company. But here when you're just uh as the congressman was saying earlier, throwing your resume into a void with no idea what's happening next. In the workday case, a person submitted hundreds of résumés and had them all rejected almost instantly.
And that was how he began to connect the dots. But what we really need is transparency around what these tools are assessing, how they're being used, and then an empowered Equal Employment Opportunity Commission that can be a cop on the beat to protect workers and make sure that employers are making responsible choices when they're
deploying these tools. >> I thank thank the gentle lady. >> Thank you. I >> time is expired. I represent I recognize a gentleman from Florida, Mr. Fine. >> Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And you know, usually when I prepare for my committee meetings, I do research. I understand what's going on. But today I
had an expert that I could go and talk to about the use of AI in education and that is my son Jacob who's a senior in high school and who actually uses these tools and uses your product um quite a bit. Not to cheat, at least that's what I think. But but I will tell you as a parent I have to ask him like wow that
was really well written. Like did you write it yourself? And and he often gets upset but he has shown me himself tools that none of us had and frankly even students five years ago never had. And so the first question is a question he asked me to ask. So I'm interested in
your perspective on this. He says AI can be very helpful to him in a whole variety of ways that you focused on. However, because of negative effects of AI and other technologies, particularly social media, schools are now banning
the use of technology in class. Like he cannot use his phone during the school day. How can you leverage your product? build your products and technologies to sort of allow it to to push back and say, "Hey, we're going to come up with
ways where you can use our techn the good stuff in school, but keep the bad stuff out." Are there ideas that are being bandied about in order to be able to do that? Whoever wants to answer, Mr. Con look like looks like you're raring to go. >> Yeah. Uh so uh we actually built our
product in this way that doesn't mean that the child always has to have their laptop out in class or always has to have a device rather there are specific use cases that the child can use generative AI in the classroom under the supervision of their teacher in a way that is uh prescribed by the teacher for
a specific purpose andor use case. There are tools in the platform. Uh an example would be a teacher has a research paper that students are doing in their senior year. Uh and Magic School has a great uh AI research assistant tool that students
can use as a uh a support for them as they're working through their research papers. A teacher launches that to their students. The student joins that uh activity and they can now use this AI tool uh as a part of their assignment. They're still responsible for the final product, but they can use this tool
that's been built with guardrails informed by what the actual task is that they're asked to be doing in class so that it doesn't write the essay for them. Um, but it does assist them in the way that the teacher intended them to be assisted. Uh, used in kind of a specific
time period with which the teacher has prescribed for them to use it and then it can be closed up when it's not supposed to be used. >> Well, my advice to all of you is this. Really the issue is smartphones more than laptops where smartphones have simply been banned. You just can't have them. And if I was all of you, I used to
be a software guy. Didn't have AI. I'd be trying to work with some of these providers to come up with modes where soft where phones can be disabled >> to do the bad stuff, but they can be enabled to do the good stuff. Because right now, we're having to throw out the
good stuff because frankly, the bad stuff is pretty bad. We don't want kids on Snapchat and Tik Tok all day. And that's the problem. They can't access the good things because of that. But my my my other question is also actually is for you, Mr. Khan. So, you talked about how teachers can use AI to help grade
and assess students. Um, you know, you can understand how this would help teachers save time, but it's also easy to imagine how this can go horribly wrong, having a computer assess um a grade. How do you make sure that the AI tools are are fair and accurate when they're being used for things like
grading? >> Yeah, first and foremost, we do not grade with the platform. So, we don't assign a specific letter grade and or a score for a student on an assignment. We we keep it to things like formative feedback for the child. Um, but we do inform the teacher with sometimes a
suggested grade. So the platform has an idea that it could suggest if the teacher elects to uh get a suggested grade for an an assignment. Uh the way we control for that is we require every educator to review that suggested grade. We uh we have kind of uh responsibility
flags that are held up to the teacher saying you know you are the teacher of record in a classroom. If you've ever been a teacher in a public school you understand this term teacher of record. It means that you are responsible for that child's grade in your class and it's like your name signed to it. So
magic school will never supplant the teacher of record. They are the ones who are making the decision about the final grade. We think of that as a high stakes decision. So it's about educating teachers on how to use this and making sure that they're uh using it in a responsible way and not as as a way to
replace their own thinking or assessment of a child's work. >> Well, thank you. Well, look, I think the challenge for us is this. I often talk about um certain drugs. You know, severe painkillers allowed us to do surgeries that could never be done before and has had extraordinary effect on people's
lives, but misused, they have horrible effects and they're killing Americans. I think most new cutting edge technologies fall into this situation where they can be used for real good or they can be used for real bad. I would say the challenge for all of you and for all of us is to figure out how we harness the
good without unleashing the bad. And I know that's something we'll be continuing to work on. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize now the gentle lady from Illinois, Miss Miller. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With how fast AI is developing, it's
essential that Congress develop policies that promote educational opportunity, workforce, and workforce development while upholding user safety. It's also a matter of national security that the US win the AI race. I appreciate the work
that the Trump administration is doing using AI to ensure students are prepared to enter the workforce while preventing it from being used for woke indoctrination. AI has become especially effective in the classroom as it can personalize
learning experiences while also helping students with special needs and learning disabilities. AI is equally beneficial to teachers as it helps create lesson plans, saving teachers hours of work per week over the course of a school year. This adds up to
nearly six weeks of saved work time. AI is also beneficial to businesses and their employees as it can teach valuable skills at a fraction of the cost. However, as AI continues to develop and and progress, we must address how it may
disrupt the job market as well as teacher student relationship in the classroom. Um, and Mr. Khan, I'm especially concerned about AI's effects on children um concerning chat bots imitating human relationships. How can
we address these issues while still using AI effectively in the classroom? Uh thank you for the question, Congresswoman. Uh we we we share in your concern uh about the uh inappropriate relationship that a student could have
with a chatbot in the classroom. Uh the way that we guard against that is we make sure that any interaction with generative AI through our product and the way we believe all products should be used or or AI products when used in schools should be under the supervision of a teacher. uh teachers have
monitoring dashboards where they are flagged for inappropriate content or maybe an inappropriate interaction uh that the child might be having in the experience. And then of course uh the the experiences themselves are academically focused. They're not intended to uh to create a relationship
between a chatbot and a child. More importantly than that, uh certainly there there are technology safeguards we put into the products, but we equip teachers with understanding the risk that you just described. We help them before they even use this technology with their students in the classroom.
They're introducing the technology with uh letting the child know about what this is, what this is not. This is not a companion. This is not something that uh you should be building a relationship with. And human connection is still the most important part of uh the educational process. Uh so the the
center of our work you know we have a slogan it's teachers are magic but that's very much the ethos of the company too is that the greatest learning happens with the relationship of a teacher and a child um and a parent and a child uh and uh we we keep that at
the center of our work and only use AI to augment their ability to serve the needs of the children in the classroom and avoid the negative effects. I'm glad that we agree on the danger that children could access that. I know um a
school in Illinois recently um the kindergarters were working on a Chromebook and pornography just popped up on it. And so, you know, we just need layer layer layer of protections to make sure our kids' minds are protected. >> Absolutely. >> Um okay. And then also for Miss Nyak,
how can Congress develop policies that will use AI to promote workforce development without sacrificing jobs? >> Thank you, Congressman or Congresswoman, excuse me. Um, we think that Congress should think about how all of the
programs that already exist, unemployment programs, programs to help upskill and educate people, um, they should think about how those can also add AI skills into those trainings. Um, so what we're doing is we're providing a foundation of certifications. We're partnering with governments. We're
partnering with employers to think about how those certifications can enter into their workflows, to think about how those certifications can lead to jobs. And we'd love to work with Congress to think about how um our certifications could also be used in workforce development programs at the state level as well as federally.
>> Would any of those certifications be available to students while they're still in high school? So that Okay. Yes, that's our intention. Um, students, teachers, as well as the workforce. >> Okay, great. My final question is to Mr. Frasier. Oops. Well, uh, chairman, you
want me to finish? >> Okay. Um, what can you talk more about needed safeguards for AI policy in light of student privacy? >> Yeah, first and foremost, very quickly, I would say we also have to be attentive to the fact that today's AI is the worst
AI we'll ever use. And if we want more uh AI tools to be safe and reliable in a student context, we also have to talk about updating and gathering student information. We can't have one without the other. So better data leads to better AI. >> Thank you. And I yield back. >> I thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize
the gentleman from Pennsylvania who's wondering how AI will help produce better whole milk. Chairman of the egg committee, Mr. Thompson. >> I've got a lot of thoughts on that. great applications in agriculture but let's talk education today um which is
the foundation of everything actually so um Mr. Con uh you you had reflected already on how K through2 schools currently integrate AI based assist of technology in classrooms. I want to um I want to focus on students who are learning with uh uh various
disabilities. Uh what do you see as the uh the opportunities there? We you know we uh you know uh the reauthorization of the individuals with disabilities education act is long overdue and so actually this could be good timing.
Uh thank you for the question, Congressman. Uh as a former special education teacher, this is near and dear to my heart. Uh AI can be an incredible assistive technology in supporting students with learning disabilities. Uh within our platform and many AI tools,
uh one of the the uh incredible advancements is in uh speechto text and text to speech. So often students with IE individualized education programs, IEPs, uh students with disabilities will have a readaloud accommodation. Uh AI
can read aloud in a natural voice that continues to have the child engaged in their education with a compelling narrator um individually in the classroom rather than having a teacher kneel down next to them um to have to do that. And perhaps, you know, that's great for the individual child the
teacher's with, but you know, when I was a special education teacher co-eing, I couldn't get to every child in the classroom to give them that accommodation. There was a physical barrier for me able to be able to, you know, implement the required accommodations uh that the children in the classroom that I was supporting had.
Um, and AI uh breaks down that barrier. It gives them the ability to have readaloud in the moments that they need it. Um in addition to that when AI is informed with uh the needs of the child uh especially when they're individualized needs uh that are are
statemandated or or federally mandated through an IEP then the interaction that they have with the technology can be even more personalized to the needs that they have. Another example I might give is uh you know when I was teaching nth grade English uh there were students who
were many grade levels behind in the class and students who were well advanced of uh their classmates. Um AI can give them personalized feedback across their ability levels if informed by uh their zone of proximal development. So you know that that's the
idea that you don't want to give a child um you know work that's so challenging that they disengage. You want to give them to them in a way that's like just stretches them just enough to help them grow to the next level. Uh and AI can help get them into that zone of proximal development based on no matter where
they started. Uh so when we can use the data that we have about kids and their needs, uh then AI can be something that increases the capacity of the educator to serve the diverse needs of the students in front of them in a way that's never been possible before. Uh
that gets me really inspired. special education is probably the thing that that you know is again near and dear to my heart but also one of the most incredible ways uh that we can support the real needs of schools and districts right now and you know special education is a designation but every child learns
differently right and there are students who are uh multiple language learners in schools who can be served with this technology and translating in and out of English and their native language uh there's so many incredible applications uh for the specialized needs of learners in classrooms >> very exciting Very exciting. Great for
the kids. Uh great for the teachers as well. >> Um uh Miss Nyak, how is AI technology being integrated into workforce development to enhance skill acquisition and support career transitions?
>> Thank you, Congressman. Um we're seeing a lot of enterprises actually very excited for AI skill development. And um when we actually speak with our enterprises who are adopting our tools, one of the biggest things that they ask us for is actually certifications and skills-based training that they can provide to their workforce so that they
can leverage these AI tools. And so the way that it's being integrated is um at OpenAI, we're partnering with enterprises to actually build out coursework and curriculum and certifications um that will teach their workforce the skills that they believe that they need in order to be successful
in their jobs in the AI era. And over the course of the next several months, we're going to be releasing several courses that we've built in partnership with these um organizations. >> Very good. And um and how is AI being used at this point in career and tech
education or CTE programs. >> CTE is a a emergent use case in a really really powerful way. We found that a lot of CTE educators are coming from industry. They're folks like my father who is an HVAC technician, welders. They didn't get a traditional training in
education. So, they're learning how to use AI to lesson plan and and build all of these really incredible resources where curriculum doesn't exist to bring this technology in a way that helps folks build these uh working class or or
what I would call living wage jobs, right? They're they're getting access to these living wage jobs and the teachers of those jobs can actually uh learn how to be a teacher a lot faster because they're able to utilize this technology to build things like lesson plans as non-traditionally educated educators. >> Very good. Well, thank you. My time's
expired. I call them essential workers. Actually, >> I thank the gentleman. And now, since we've discussed AI with whole milk, I suppose we ought to discuss AI's impact on bourbon. >> Absolutely. >> I recognize a gentleman from Kentucky, Mr. Homer.
>> Well, well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I thank our witnesses for being there today. I'm very excited about what AI could mean for my district in rural Kentucky. Uh, in my congressional district in Paduka, Kentucky, a former Department of Energy site that once supported nuclear weapons production is
now being redeveloped for advanced energy projects and AI data center uses alongside uranium enrichment facilities. Just last week, I'm very happy to announce that one company in Paduca received a $900 million task order from
the Department of Energy to enrich uranium and power America's nuclear future. At the same time, local workers are preparing to reskill and upskill to meet the needs of companies re-industrializing the Paduka Department of Energy site. For a lot of folks back
home, this isn't theor theatrical. This is it's about whether they can stay in their communities and move into good well-paying jobs as technology changes. Paduka and the surrounding communities in West Kentucky have a skilled workforce built around energy, manufacturing, and national security,
and they're now being asked to transition into this next generation of infrastructure. I see this as a real opportunity for Kentucky uh uh to be a part of the future of AI, not left behind. Uh, Miss Nyak, how do you see AIdriven industries creating new kinds
of jobs in places like Paduka, Kentucky? >> Thank you, Congressman. And I think Paduka is a really exciting example for how AI could actually move with industries and kind of transition them over time. Um, I think the example that you gave of um, data centers and being
able to leverage their skills to power the next generation of this technology is a very exciting one. Um what we're doing with the jobs and certifications effort is um we're actually leveraging our AI foundations courses to build curriculum for specific industries like the ones in your district um to enable
them to actually gain the AI skills but also leverage the skills that they already have in this new um era. And um we're very excited to see that enabling workers to actually transition with the times and then um actually lead to much more economic growth in new industries
or industries that are just transitioning with AI. Well, that's great and and we talk about it a lot in this committee and I think uh we're all in a majority agreement that uh it's a new type of of job training in America
and uh I guess mak uh what specific kinds of of training or or specific certifications would help average workers uh that want to reskill
move more quickly. ly into these new types of jobs and how does Open AI think about supporting those pathways. >> Congressman, we're investing in several different styles of courses um that will lead to an open AI certification. Our
first one is um something that we think can be valuable to everyone from a teacher to a student to a worker which is AI foundations which teaches them how to use tools like chatgpt teaches them how to build agentic workflows and then also teaches them how to bring their community along and actually train the
trainer and um teach others around them to use AI. Um that's our kind of first set of courses and we're already starting to roll those out. Um we'll finish that full curriculum series this month. Um the second set of courses are focused on AI builders. Um those are the ones who are technologists or even um
like the examples that you give who are operating data centers or operating energy facilities where they're actually leveraging AI to build tools for others to use. Um we're going to start to build out an AI builder curriculum and coursework that will empower those individuals to be able to use our tools.
Um over time we see that we would love to partner with every industry to think about how we can take those types of courses and then adapt them to their industries. Um so examples of that is we've already released a AI um teacher course which takes our AI foundations course and actually augments it and
implements it for teachers. Um we're hoping to do that in the healthcare space as well. So we think it's very exciting. We think that this foundational curriculum can lead to a lot of benefit for many different industries. >> Well well thank you very much for your insight. I'm very eager Mr. chairman to
to see how AI can unleash workforce development opportunities for my constituents in Kentucky. So, thank you all again for being here. Uh, M. Chairman, look forward to working with the committee to see that we can achieve this goal of of retraining a a new
workforce to be able to quickly adapt into the the bright future that AI has. So, with that, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I now recognize gentleman from Guam, Mr. Moland, >> Chairman Wahlberg and ranking member
Scott, thanks for hosting today's important hearing and thank you today to our panel for providing your expertise. So the rapid advancement of AI deployment through the workforce and schools and it's provided untapped opportunities
of course and while we have an unlimited potential we should also be cautious about irresponsible use and the threats of our adversarial nations what they can pose with the new technology and that's why I work consistently with my
colleagues on both sides of the aisle to ensure that appropriate guard rails and strategic planning are in place to generate jobs, ensure AI dominance, and protect our nation and its people. Um, Miss Nia, oftentimes certain areas
can be left behind in innovative workforce development to maintain America AI leadership across the globe and in all corners of the country. What approaches can ensure that no community is left behind, particularly in the
territories, rural areas, and remote locations where AI applications can solve critical infrastructure, logistics, and economic development problems. >> Thank you, Congressman. And we we share in your concern that AI could leave people behind or it could actually help
to accelerate um rural communities or communities that normally wouldn't be reached by technology. and we're hopeful that it will be the latter. Um, what you're talking about is something we call the capability overhang where we want to make sure that people can actually use AI to its fullest and we need to be able to skill them to be able
to do so. And so what we're doing here at OpenAI is um a couple of things. One is we're leveraging certifications and those certifications are available on ChatGpt and so really anyone could access them. The beauty of that is that with chat GPT as well, you could
actually personalize a course towards different communities. Um, so you mentioned territories, you could actually um take a course and you could translate it to different languages or um, you know, different levels of um, education or understanding. And I think that that will actually make this more adaptable so that it can actually be
personalized to those communities rather than um, something that's only focused on kind of urban areas in um, the US. >> Thank you for that. Uh also another question for you. As AI transforms professionals uh like finance services, supply chain management and healthcare,
what mechanisms would you recommend for enabling colleges and universities to rapidly redesign programs and deploy industry recognized credentials that meet immediate workforce needs while students and families are demanding these changes?
>> Thank you, Congressman. We've been working quite a bit with universities, not only um kind of large universities, but also community colleges um and we've been talking to them a lot about how we could leverage our certification programs within those universities. Um one way is that we actually need to
skill up um the professors and teachers in those universities. And so we're building coursework for those teachers to actually understand how do you build AI based curriculum. Um that's part one. Part two is we're building coursework for students. Um, right now we have a student AI lab where as we're building
this course curriculum, we're actually having that lab give us feedback both positive and negative as to how it's actually helping them, where we're actually missing the mark. And that's been super useful um for us in developing this course to make sure that it actually applies to our students and universities. And then third, um, we're
also working with enterprises so that they can tell us where they're seeing the biggest gaps and then ideally we can take that back to the universities and community colleges and actually partner with them to close those gaps. Um, and we really see this as a virtuous loop and we're excited that AI can actually help create and connect that loop in
ways we never saw before. >> That's terrific. Uh and going on that line with the commercial enterprises, how can federal policy support small and medium-sized businesses, local governments, and public institutions like schools and public health systems in adopting AI tools and upscaling
existing workforces, particularly where expertise and training is limited. >> Thank you, Congressman. We're actually seeing that around 40% of small businesses are already reporting UA using AI today. And um the majority of
small businesses actually see this technology as increasingly important to their industries. And so we're we're actually very excited about the impact that this could have on small businesses from um you know businesses that couldn't afford to have specific services where they were kind of stringing together work themselves. Um
now maybe they could use AI to augment it so that they have to spend less time doing things that they don't love and spend more time building their business. Um what we're doing here is um again with the certifications effort, we want to give small businesses the tools to be able to op adopt AI really rapidly um
and to be able to prevent that capability gap so that they can actually use it to increase um their businesses. >> Thank you so much. Uh thank you to the panel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the very patient gentleman from Virginia,
the ranking member, Mr. Scott. >> Thank Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Miss Given, um, we've talked about bias and you mentioned guidance on websites from federal agencies. Can you say a word about the status of that guidance?
>> Um, absolutely. And it comes up in both of the topics of today's hearing. So in the hiring and employment space over the past five years, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the Department of Justice, Department of Labor, National Labor Relations Board did extensive work to put out guidance for employers and workers about how to use
AI in a way that complies with existing employment laws. Unfortunately, all of those pieces of guidance have been removed from their websites. I do provide links to them in my written testimony from people who preserved that record. But unfortunately, that pullback is just a very troubling sign about the
leadership those agencies are showing right now for workers and employers. >> In the education space, I'll just note that the Department of Education through its Office of Education Technology and the Office of Civil Rights also put out very important guidance on how to ensure the use of AI in education spaces
complies with existing civil rights laws. It's important that that continues to be available to people as well. Thank you. And can you on that discrimination guide discrimination cases, can you talk about the importance of disparit impact analysis?
>> Yeah. So, one of the foundational tenants of our civil rights laws is acknowledging that one form of discrimination can best be captured through assessing the disperate impact that it has on protected populations with people based on their protected characteristics in our society. If that
protection is removed, then anybody who is trying to say they've been treated unfairly under the law has to make a very difficult case about what was in the mind of the person that hired 99% white people into their workforce. Just to give one example and that's incredibly difficult to do and it ends
up essentially making our laws almost impossible to enforce. So desperate impact for a long time has been a tenate of how we actually address inequality in these key features of people's lives and making sure that people with protected characteristics that they're not being judged on that basis but on their
ability to contribute to a job in question. >> And if a businessman has offtheshelf software that turns out to be discriminatory who is responsible for who is accountable for the discrimination >> under the law the employer is. Right now, it is difficult to bring those
cases because of the lack of transparency and visibility into how those tools are affecting the workforce. Which is why we need not only enforcement of existing law, but also additional protections provided by Congress to have there be more transparency and testing and when these tools are used and deployed. And in
professional development, if um are there problems we need to be sensitive to in providing professional development with AI rather than the industry providing itself if there's embedded bias in the software.
>> I think in any uh tasking and other training materials, it is important to think about what is being taught and the quality of what is being taught. Um one hopes that that is the hallmark of effective learning and and effective teaching materials. One of the areas we've been focused on in the edtech space is how to make sure that edtech
vendors, just to give one example, are much more transparent about their grounding in learning science so that teachers, educators, school administrators can be making informed decisions when they turn to these tools and are asking not only how are you trained, what is the what is the science, but also how are you evaluating
your impact over time. Some are starting to do this, but the paperwork around it, the disclosures, the standards, as Mr. was saying aren't there yet and it's an important area to focus on right now. >> Thank you. Mr. Frasier, you you pointed out the importance of collecting data.
Um you didn't say what data we needed to be collecting on >> in 72 seconds. Uh I think that there's a tremendous need to focus on adoption. What tools are being adopted? Focusing on the intensity and novelty of that adoption. So not only do you have access
to a tool, but how are you using it and in what ways are you using it? Then I also think we also uh need to pay attention to which tools are explicitly being used in which institutional settings. Getting an understanding of whether a company for example is using
last year's iteration of a certain model or the latest technology can give us real insights as well. So it's really uh a extensive effort that has to be maintained to get a true picture of how AI is diffusing across society. But it's one we must pursue if we want better policy. >> Let me try to get another question. And
um Florida had has has a proposed AI bill of rights for this Florida. You say whether or not it's important for states to uh control the situation or federal
government. And well, you say that executive orders do not override state laws. Statutes do. Is that right? >> Uh that is correct. under the supremacy clause that federal law can over uh overrule state laws that conflict with it. I would say also that in the domain
of AI, states have a very real and very acknowledged role in governing uh AI use cases by end users. If and when we see states try to regulate beyond their own borders. However, that infringes upon our federalist system in which Congress, you all are tasked with governing
interstate matters. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the gentleman. I thank the uh the panel. I hope you noticed the uh extent of the numbers of members on both sides of the aisle that showed great interest in making time to leave other
committees etc and be here to ask questions. This is something that um we will continue as well. So, thank you each of you for for sharing your expertise and uh we know where to find you if we
need more answers. I now would recognize the ranking member for his closing remarks. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would first ask ask unanimous consent for a report from the economic policy institute entitled unbalanced labor market power
is what makes technology including AI threatening to workers. Best AI policy is to protect worker to protect workers is boosting their bargaining position. >> Without objection. >> And the other the um article that was mentioned a couple of times the risk of
AI in schools outweigh the benefits report says it's a national public radio uh piece. >> Without objection. >> Thank you. Um m Mr. um chairman I think um this has been a great panel. Very
very um very very instructive. We've heard a lot about what's going on, the need for uh I think we've heard one one need that we need some standardized um oversight of what um AI programs are.
Um we've heard the importance of asking the right questions. The problem is if you don't have some independent analysis, you don't know what to do with the answers. How how's your um program on on privacy? Oh, it's great. Now, what do you know?
Um we need some independence and also like we have with registered apprenticeships, the certification of programs. Um with a registered apprenticeship, if you have a registered apprenticeship that you completed in um
Washington DC and Washington state, they know what you can do. uh we need to make sure that certifications and AI have the same kind of standardization. So there's a lot we've learned today and a lot we need to continue to working on particularly with
the um sinister opportunities for discrimination that are way below the radar that uh we need to be looking into. So thank you Mr. Chairman and I yield back. I thank the gentleman and yes today it
was very clear uh dangers. Yes. Um innovations and expansions of opportunity. Yes. Both uh job and process changes and eliminations. Yes. Uh job and process enhancements. Yes. It's all there. Um
policy uh makers must uh transparently highlight and expose violations and concerns but with as light touch I believe as possible to foster innovation
not fall into the same trap we fell in with net neutrality. Um the objective is is I think u very bipartisan that we have a system we
have um AI that works for all of us and expands opportunity um with caution but that we don't stand unnecessarily in the way either priorities uh as has been said are litery lit
literacy and true useful development of what goes on. AI will bring about changes in education and the workforce. It has to if we're going to keep up and lead the world. Uh full stop. Uh but a
brave new world has always brought more benefit than had we not bravely move forward with the dangers, the pit potential pitfall pitfalls, but also the amazing successes that it can bring. How
we encourage education and the business community to partner together in the best use of AI is something that we need to cons continue thinking about and do it as quickly as possible. We don't have time to just wait and waste but need to
move forward. The the US will lead in AI or the Chinese Communist Party will. I'm not lying, am I? Uh hence quality and innovative education is a must that is also
fostered by a morality that builds its freedom that comes from information. I think I heard that said and of course factual information that builds on that
uh optimism uh is is what I feel uh AI could help produce more sincere and unified bipartisanship through AI clarification of how often we may be on the same side
but we're unable to clearly articulate our ideas and concerns. And so I'm optimistic that AI can even help in the legislative process um and uh move us forward on a track that says America will succeed and our
kids will grow in in their education endeavors in different ways in unusual ways from what has been in the past but on a trend upward with the freedom that we espouse here in the United States that brings about
success. uccess and achievement. So again, thank you so much for uh participating with us and um with that and without objection, there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned.