Come to order. A quorum is present. Uh the committee meets today pursuant to notice and without objection the chair may recess the committee at any point. I don't want to do that. Let me be honest with you. I'm glad to see you all
back. I missed you all. And uh I would hope that at this point um that this committee, which I think is the truthfully the most vitally needed committee in all of Congress when we
talk about education workforce that we can come together and remind ourselves that the past whether it be the past seven weeks or what is the past and uh now we can get back to the work of the people that they've called us to
do. So, I'm delighted to see you all and hope this be a great and positive hearing. Where we've had some negative hearings um by right of what we need to do in this committee, there's always a good opportunity to have positive hearings looking at innovation in the
space that we are most concerned with. Good morning and welcome to today's committee on education workforce hearing. I want to thank our witnesses for joining us as we examine how innovation in higher education can expand opportunity,
improve student outcomes, and make college more affordable. The need for innovation is clear across our higher education system. Only about 61% of first-time students earn a degree within six years, not four years. and
completion rates are even lower for non-traditional and part-time learners. As a result, nearly 42 million Americans have attended college but left without earning a credential. This some college credential population
underscores a critical gap in our education system. Too many students invest time and money and effort in higher education without ever seeing the return they deserve. At the same time of a a divide persists
between how educators and graduates view workforce readiness. Nearly nine in 10 educators believe their students are ready for the workplace. Yet only half of recent graduates feel prepared for entry level roles. And just one in three
believe their education was worth the cost. And their employers feel the same way. Meanwhile, the profile of the typical college student has changed. Today, most students are non-traditional working adults, parents, caregivers, and
veterans whose needs and schedules look very different from an 18-year-old living on campus. College also faced demographic and economic challenges. A looming enrollment cliff is projected to shrink the pool of new high school
graduates entering college by about 13% between 2025 and 2041. And more young Americans are opting out of college altogether. Just 62.8% of 2024 high school graduates enrolled in
college immediately after graduation, down four percentage points from 2019. These realities demand new technologies, new models, and new mindset uh to ensure higher education truly meets the needs
of students and families. Fortunately, innovation is not a distant goal. It's happening right now, reshaping how students access, afford, and complete college. Artificial intelligence, or AI,
for example, is transforming learning and operations. Students and faculty are using AI to brainstorm ideas, tutor, design coursework, and streamline feedback. Institutions are automating administrative workflows to reduce costs
and improve service. Highquality online and hybrid classes are making college more accessible for working adults, uh, parents, and veterans who need flexibility. Colleges are collaborating through
course sharing partnerships, ensuring students can take required courses from another college, even if they're not offered at their home institution. Partnerships between colleges and job creators are also driving innovation,
ensuring programs align with workforce needs and preparing students for the jobs of tomorrow and today. The Trump administration is helping accelerate this progress by priorit prioritizing AI literacy and directing
competitive grants toward AI implementation in higher education, reflecting a commitment to modernizing our higher education system and ensuring innovation leads to real results for learners. Today's panel represents that
commitment. We are joined by leaders from across the higher education landscape who are driving innovation and helping shape the future of learning. I look forward to their testimony and to today's important discussion. And so with that, I now
yield to my friend from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr. Scott. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, welcome back. Good to see you. >> It's been quite quite a while since we've seen Republicans in town. Democrats came back a couple of times
just to see if we could entice you back. >> I was back and I saw you here. >> Okay. Well, it was good to see you then, but it's good to be back and back at work. Now, innovation and higher education is crucial if we want to ensure that all Americans can access and
graduate from college. practices such as offering flexible learning options, leveraging digital tools, providing student services and financial support can improve students college experience and completion. But not all innovations
make a difference. Some even come at the expense of student outcomes or equity. And our core responsibility as federal policy makers is to make sure that every student can succeed regardless of background. Unfortunately, the Trump administration and my Republican
colleagues are intent upon doing undoing the progress we've made. That so-called big ugly law is a prime example. It eliminates grad plus loans, pushes students into predatory private loan market, makes it easier for predatory for-profit colleges
to to defraud students. Cutting these programs without offering an alternative solution to address the rising cost of college will adversely affect low-income borrowers and those who have less access to capital. This isn't just a policy mistake. It's a moral failure that
threatens the futures of aspiring doctors, nurses, and researchers. In fact, the the limitations on PEL and student loan in that big ugly bill make it impossible for students who can attend medical school today to attend
medical school under the new rules if they can't come up with about $50,000 to complete their education. And it doesn't stop there. We've seen the Trump administration circumvent Congress and dismantle the Department of Education, including hollowing out the
Institute of Education Services. Now we know that without IEES we are robbed of essential evidence and research that helps inform good policym. Without this institution we lose the capacity to measure whether our investments in
education are working, whether students are succeeding or whether we're simply throwing money into programs that aren't making a difference. And the result we lose the ability to hold publicly funded schools and colleges accountable. We can't even properly track student
outcomes, let alone identify the fixed and fix what's broken. Moreever, we've proven that innovate that innovation in higher education can work when we focus on evidence-based best practices. Federal initiatives such as the
post-secondary student success grant, PSSG, uh are perfect examples of how we can help states and institutions innovate and implement programs with proven track records of improving students success. These grants are designed to help
students not only gain access to academic support such as tutoring and and advising, but also help students graduate on time. And regrettably, the Trump administration has already made clear that it has no plan to fund these programs. Despite congressional
Republicans and Trump administration's intent to take us backwards, the world around us continues to move forward. For better or worse, the new technology and artificial intelligence are in our workplaces and our classrooms. Our challenge now must be to understand how
we can best leverage innovations without sacrificing student outcomes. We cannot allow innovation to intentionally or unintentionally leave certain students behind. True innovation can only be achieved if we prioritize addressing disparities in student outcomes and
following and following the evidence and research. We are responsible for ensuring that all students, no matter their wealth or background, can attend college and achieve their dreams. This future must continue. This is a future that we must continue to build. Not one
where access to opportunity is restricted, but a future where we can push forward, expand access, and and lift every student. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. Uh, pursuant to committee rule 8C, all members who wish
to insert written statements in the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5:00 p.m. uh today, 14 days or or 14 days after this hearing. And without objection, the
hearing record will remain open for 14 days to allow such statements and other extraneous material noted during the hearing to be submitted for the official hearing record. I'll now turn to uh what I've looked forward to and giving introduction to
our four witnesses on the panel today. Welcome and we appreciate you being here. Our first witness is Dr. Jeffrey Dcking, the president of Adrien College from Adrien, Michigan, my home area and a uh and sweatshirts that my three little granddaughters are wearing now of
Adrian College. Uh I look forward to your testimony, Dr. Docking. Our second witness is Dr. Colin Napierre, the director of the Mississippi Artificial Intelligence Network from Gulfport, Mississippi. Welcome. Our third witness
is Dr. Will Dell Pilar, the senior vice president for higher education at Ed Trust here in Washington DC. Welcome. Our last witness is Mr. Taday Oay Reinde. I hope I got that right. Close.
That's phonics. phonics help the chancellor of campus edu.edu from New York City. Welcome. We thank the witnesses for being here today. Pursuant to committee rules, I
would ask that you each limit your oral presentation to three minute summary of your written statement. The clock will countd down from three minutes as committee members have many questions for you and we would like to spend as much time as possible on the questions pursuant to committee rule 8D the
committee practice. However, uh we will not cut off your testimony until you reach the five minute mark. I would also like to remind the witnesses to be aware of their responsibility to provide accurate information to the committee. And so I and now I will first recognize
Dr. Ducking for your testimony. >> Well, thank you, Chairman Wahberg, Ranking Member Scott, and uh members of this important committee. My name is Jeff Daki, and I've been the president of Adrian College for the past 20 years. It's a small liberal arts college about
35 miles south of Ann Arbor, Michigan. And I'm happy to talk to you today about one of the most exciting innovations that I've seen during my 37 years in higher education. Approximately 10 years ago, I came to the conclusion that the business model
of higher education is terribly broken. College is too expensive, students are taking on too much debt, large increases in federal student aid programs are unlikely, and state level support is leveling off. In addition to the broken
business model, there's a second problem. Colleges need to do a better job of preparing students for the rapidly changing modern economy that we all live in. Society is changing so quickly, especially in the areas of technology, health sciences, and
business that we need to offer new majors that students desperately want and our nation desperately needs. But because it is so expensive to start new majors, it simply doesn't happen. I'm talking about critical majors like cyber
security, artificial intelligence, data science, neuroscience, even supply chain management. Well, I'm pleased to tell you that I believe we have figured out the solution to solve most of these problems. The solution, which I will explain in
greater detail in a minute, relies on colleges working together in a partnership in a way that they've never done so before to bring massive efficiency to our system. This innovative solution is not theoretical.
It is happening now on 140 campuses nationwide and serving over 10,000 students annually at traditional colleges. Here's how it works. In 2018, when I realized the business model was broken, I identified inefficiency as the
root cause. Colleges are very inefficient, making them very expensive places to run. We need to work together, especially in the areas of teaching and learning to make them more efficient. And we can do this by leveraging technology that makes it possible for
colleges to share classes in a much more cost-effective way. Now, the biggest reason why colleges have not shared uh classes in the past is because there was never a platform to do so. A platform that colleges could tap into seamlessly
to give students great classes from great professors on other campuses. Classes that students can take online either synchronously or asynchronously and for college credit on their own campus. Sharing classes is more difficult than it appears. But in 2018,
I talked two recent Harvard graduates, Kevin Harrington and Conor McCarthy, to join me at Adrien College to solve this problem. And over the next two years, we built a platform that makes sharing classes seamless for everybody involved. We now can offer new classes and start
new majors for only a fraction of the cost. Let me give you one example to show you how it works. At Adrien College, we very much wanted to start a new major in supply chain management, but we couldn't afford the startup cost, hiring new professors, paying salaries, retirement plans,
office space, technology. It can easily cost $500,000 to start a new major. Well, we learned that there was a similar institution to us in Newton, Massachusetts called Lasel University that offered supply chain management. Lasal agreed to share the
five classes we needed to start the new major. We pay $500 for each student who enrolls in these classes. Some money goes to LEL for sharing their courses and some goes to the platform that we call RISE to build it out and
offer additional majors. And Rise is a private company of over 60 employees now and I am one of the co-founders. This platform has made it possible for this consortium of colleges to scale new majors. Now over 140 colleges in our
consortium have passed 785 new academic programs for a fraction of the traditional cost. At Adrian, for example, we've added 36 new academic programs over the past five years without adding one professor.
This platform and shared classes represent what I believe is the college of the future. institutions in partnership with each other to lower costs that can eventually be passed on to students and their families. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you. I recognize now uh Dr. Npier. Good morning, Chairman Wahberg, Ranking Member Scott, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. You have asked how innovation can improve outcomes and lower cost in higher education. That
question defines the work we are doing in Mississippi. I serve as director of the Mississippi Artificial Intelligence Network, otherwise known as Maine, M Ain, and this is based at Mississippi GF Coast Community College. Maine is the
nation's first statewide AI innovation uh initiative in higher education. It unites every public community college and university in the state of Mississippi through a coordinated strategy to make learning more affordable, more accessible, and more aligned with workforce demand. The
challenges you are addressing today are the same pressures we face on the ground. Mississippi's response is to use innovation to solve problems that matter. Cost, time, and relevance. First, reducing cost. Maine in
partnership with industry provides a statewide AI curriculum delivered online at no cost to learners. This prevents every institution from duplicating introductory course development and expands access for working adults who cannot enroll on a semester schedule.
Shared materials lower per student costs and return institutional savings to instruction. Second, shortening time. MGCCCC and our partners use stackable micro credentials and self-paced modules that help adults gain skills quickly and
apply them towards degrees without starting over. This model is essential as states confront the enrollment cliff and as more learners balance work, parenting or military service. Third, increasing relevance. MGCCCC provides a
clear example of how institutions can embed AI, data literacy, cloud computing, and cyber security across general education and career programs to keep learning aligned with modern industry practice. Students in fields such as advanced manufacturing,
healthcare, and logistics gain experience with the tools used in real workplaces. The goal is not to replace faculty or technicians with AI, but to ensure that welders can read sensor data, nurses can use clinical decision support, and logistics professionals can
detect anomalies earlier. AI augments human work. Technology enables these shifts. Responsible use of AI can support early alerts, streamline degree audits and scheduling, reduce textbook cost, and help colleges identify where credit lost, go ghost enrollment, or
administrative friction undermine student progress. When governed well, these tools strengthen completion and reduced waste. The lesson for Mississippi's work is simple. Coordinated innovation lowers duplication, expands options for working learners, and strengthens alignment
between education and employment. We are not claiming to have solved the challenges facing higher education. We are showing that when systems aligned around affordability, access, and outcomes, innovation becomes practical, measurable, and repeatable. These
principles are relevant far beyond our state. Thank you for the opportunity to share Mississippi's experience. I look forward to your questions. >> Thank you very much. Now, Dr. Delprar, >> thank you, Chairman Wahlberg, Rank Ranking Member Scott, and members of the
committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. For millions of students, the future of higher education isn't an abstract debate. It's about whether college remains a gateway to opportunity or becomes another barrier to making their dreams a reality. My name is Will Depalar where I serve I
serve as senior vice president at Ed Trust. Our mission is simple and urgent to close opportunity gaps and advance racial and economic justice in education. Education is a civil right, uh, one that too many students are still denied. We're here to talk about innovation, but innovation alone cannot
fix a system where students face rising prices, shrinking supports, um, and pathways that are difficult to navigate. Nearly 90% of PEL students still face unmet financial need. Black, Latino, and low-income students continue to experience gaps in affordability and completion. Today, students are older,
working, parenting, and navigating institutions that were not designed to support their success. The 43 million Americans who started college but never finished are not failures. They're a reflection of a higher education system where affordability and access are roadblocks. Innovation matters, but it
can't replace investment. What changes students lives is EV evidence-based supports paired with resources to deliver it. And we know it works. Programs like CUNI ASAP nearly double graduation rates. Georgia State is boosting retention through early alerts advising and small emergency grants that
keep students enrolled. Institutional partners also help students complete degrees and earn higher wages. States are expanding dual enrollment early college high school. FA is a high school graduation requirement. Direct admissions and community college baloria programs creating pathways to
post-secary programs that lead to economic mobility. Right now, those pathways are in danger. The administration's move to dismantle research capacity at IIS, undermine the Department of Education, threaten PEL and pose controls on universities undercuts the very innovation we claim
to value. And their choice to defund the post-secondary student success grant, also known as PSSG, and other programs supported by the Fund for the Improvement of Post-Secary Education or FIPSY is especially devastating. FIPSY supports several different programs, including PSSG that help students stay
enrolled, meet basic needs, afford textbooks, and access to guidance that keeps them on track. For low-income students, parents, first generation students, and veterans, this support is often the difference between earning a degree or joining the 43 million non-competers. Congress has already
recognized the power of this work by funding PSSG across administrations with bipartisan support. We urge you to fully fund PSSG and all the FIPSY programs in any upcoming appropriations agreement. Our economy cannot afford millions more who start college hoping for a better
life only to be pushed out by obstacles we have the tools and the responsibility to remove. We cannot ask students to innovate their way out of underinvestment. We cannot demand modern solutions while stripping away data, staff, civil rights protection, and the basic supports that make student success
possible. Students are doing everything we ask of them and more. They are working, parenting, and still pushing towards degrees that can change the trajectory of their family for generation. The question is not whether they are ready for innovation. They are. The question is whether we will match
their determination with the investment they deserve. To build a stronger workforce, a more competitive economy, and more equitable democracy, we must invest in what works. restoring PSSG, protecting federal education infrastructure, and scaling evidence-based student success
strategies like those detailed in my written testimony. ETRA stands ready to defend students right to learn today because that dedication drives America's growth tomorrow. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions. >> Thank you. I recognize Mr. Oay Reinde
for your testimony. >> Thank you, Chairman Wahlberg, Ranking Member Scott, and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me here today. My name is Tad O Yearende. I'm the founder and chancellor at Campus, a two-year college reimagining the future of post high school education
in America. At its best, American higher education is second to none on this planet. A system built to cultivate the talents of our young people and prepare them to lead productive and awesome lives. And when it's functioning properly, it it delivers great results
for society. We know, for example, that on average, young people who complete a bachelor's degree will outearn folks with just a high school diploma by more than a million dollars over the course of their careers. But I'm here today because like many Americans in my generation, I've experienced firsthand
that our higher education system has fallen off the tracks. The cost of college is out of control. We all know this. It's like a disease that just keeps on getting worse. And so to save money, millions of Americans are starting college off at our community
colleges, which when they work are truly phenomenal. Schools like Miami Dade and Danza and Certino have the hardest jobs in the world and yet still deliver excellent outcomes for students at scale. But on a systemic level, far too often our community colleges are not
equipped to be successful at actually improving the lives of students. Here's some data. The average community college in our country has a graduation rate of about just 30%. And just 14% of students who start off at a community college will actually
transfer into and graduate from a 4-year university. Just 14%. Here's the worst part. Each year, approximately 260,000 students drop out of our community colleges holding a collective $1.5 billion in student loan debt, $5,700
each. and no degree. They have no increased earning potential and are now in debt. They're worse off than if they'd never gone to college in the first place. This is a crisis for our country. We've turned millions in my generation into unemployable debtors who
started off adulthood with a negative net worth. They can't afford to buy a home. They feel they can't afford to have kids or take any risks like starting a business. And now there's an entire generation after us increasingly opting out of post high school education
altogether asking themselves why should I even try when a good education is so out of reach and AI is about to take all the jobs anyway and so in in an attempt to be part of the solution several years ago my team and I acquired a two-year college to build out a new model one
where students don't have to choose between quality and accessibility. Today, more than 3,000 campus students are pursuing degrees in fields like applied AI and modern business administration. They're taking classes taught by a network of professors who simultaneously teach at our country's
top universities like UT Austin and Stanford. Our classes are delivered live online, accessible, but also highly engaging. Each of our students is paired with a success coach whose sole job is to make sure that they graduate. Students receive a bunch of additional
things needed for success. A laptop, a Wi-Fi dongle so they can attend class from anywhere, free mental health counseling, free math and writing tutoring. And the best part is we've managed to figure out how to deliver all of this while keeping tuition priced
below max PEL, meaning low-income students pay nothing out of pocket. and middle inome students can cover annual tuition with just a summer job at the mall or the movie theater down the street. While it's still early, our models results speak for themselves. Our
graduates who get a 3.0 GPA get guaranteed transfer admissions into dozens of great universities across the country. Our first few cohorts have already achieved graduation rates 30% higher than the national average. And not one of our more than 3,000 students
has taken on a single cent of student loan debt to attend campus. We're able to sustainably offer all of this because investments in student retention are in fact ROI positive. And my team, including our president, Michael Zimmerman, the grandson of our college's
founder, is working around the clock to keep improving our model as we scale. All of this is guided by our board of trustees, leaders who've dedicated their lives to American education, including our chair, Dr. John Wilson of Morehouse, Dr. Gail Melo, Dr. Art Lavine, Dr.
Edardo Padon, and Dr. Joe May. In closing, our country needs to solve these challenges urgently, and we're committed to playing our role in scaling a model that works. I look forward to working with you all. Thank you. >> Thank you.
Under committee rule nine, we will now question witnesses under the five-minute rule. I'll re I will recognize myself for my five minutes. Dr. Ducking, your your testimony and prior work make clear that higher
education faces structural cost crisis u that's not temporary and budget challenges that aren't temporary. uh as institutions continue to close even around the community in which your college finds itself and families
struggle with rising tuition. Uh colleges must be willing to reform. And so I ask you, how does the course sharing model demonstrate that meaningful cost reduction is achievable without more taxpayer funding? And also,
where is business and industry involved? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, traditionally, colleges and universities have been very insular institutions. You might have seven, eight, nine colleges and universities in a 100 square mile radius. And yet, they're all
replicating the same classes, the same services. You may have a German professor on every single campus with very, very few German majors on any one campus. And so by sharing classes, we can have one German professor share
classes with all of the other uh schools that want to participate in the consortium. And so uh we've uh reduced uh over $2 million out of our budget through this already. It's one of the reasons why we have Black Inc. at Adrian College. um the first semester that we
offered shared courses and I can talk more about why students like these so much later but we had about 30 students taking these courses when I got on the plane yesterday to be here we had 1100 so students love these shared courses and they're reporting great um uh
experiences in them to the second part of your question one of the reasons why they love these courses so much is that we work very closely with industry to put these courses together. Google, for example, was a very early uh adopter of what we were trying to do and have been
incredibly supportive. And Google has said to us, "Look, things are changing, you know, monthly, let alone yearly. Would you give us the opportunity to review the curriculum each year to make sure that students are learning what they need to know to get off the commencement stage and actually make a
difference immediately?" And so, we of course said yes. and and and uh the both the curriculum that's put together for the students and the review that takes place at the end of each year has been amazing. And so I'd lastly say that each class ends with a capstone. So all the
knowledge that they've gotten from the class needs to come together in some type of relevant project that students can put on their resume to impress future uh business leaders. So all of those things are part of these classes and and students are um have really
taken to them. Thank you, Dr. Napierre. Um, the rapid advance of AI is reshaping uh both entry level and mid-career workforce expectations. Yet, higher education is still struggling to equip students with
baseline digital and AI competency. From your perspective, what foundational AI and digital fluency comp competencies should all students, regardless of major, master before graduation? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, out of the
gate, uh, from a foundational standpoint, student should students should know how to have practical usage of AI. For example, analyzing data with it. Now, part of that is AI is rapidly changing. It's it's what we call a moving target. That that priority of
what they need to know is going to change and shift over time. So it it provides back to um industry alignment there and ensuring the curriculum is up to date with the latest practices but in terms of competencies it's it's pretty much the basics you know understanding what it is and how to use it and how to
use it in a practical real world manner. >> Yeah. Thank you Mr. Oay Rende. Um, from your perspective dealing with community colleges, what are the most persistent structural failures in our current community
college platform? >> Well, it's really about the students that our community colleges are serving. They're serving, I think, in many cases, the most challenging ser uh students to serve. They're doing the Lord's work. Um and those students need more support um
than most community colleges are currently equipped to be able to provide. As um as Dr. Will Delar said, uh CUNU ASAP has already demonstrated a lot of what works. You provide students with coaches at campus. Every student for every 50 students we enroll, we have
a coach. This coach is there providing the kind of work my parents did when you know they're kicking my butt when uh when I start slacking and they're a shoulder to lean on when things get tough. And that's what we provide to every student. And quite frankly, that's what's needed if you're serious about getting graduation rates up. Well,
because many of these students don't have parents uh who went to college or university like mine did. Many uh we hear from students all the time, their dad's actually discouraging them from remaining enrolled and saying, "Go get a job at Walmart and help me out with the bills." And so what's needed is a lot of students need these wraparound supports.
The challenge that community colleges have structurally is that they can't figure out how to economically offer what we already know and the science has already shown works. Um it is expensive to start off but what I you know here to say today is that ROI uh from these
investments is positive and if you can get that um you know that ball rolling uh it pays for itself. >> Okay. Thank you. It builds on itself. My time has expired. I now recognize my friend from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr. Scott. >> Thank you Mr. Chairman, Dr. Dawing,
excuse me. Um, can you tell me the value of a liberal arts degree, even if it can't be monetized immediately in the job market? >> Uh, yes. Uh, Congressman Scott, the value of a liberal arts degree is that
we, uh, teach students, uh, not necessarily what to think, but how to think. to be lifelong learners, to look at what's presented to them every day in terms of the experiences they have and the people they meet, what they're trying to accomplish professionally and
otherwise, and to learn from those experiences. Uh the liberal arts uh exposes students to uh several discipline disciplines during their undergraduate years, so they're comfortable in everything from math to history to English, speaking, writing.
Um, and so it creates a well-rounded person that's committed to lifelong learning. >> And in a life during the life, is it more valuable as valuable as a technical education where you learn a skill and
can monetize it immediately? >> It is, uh, Mr. Scott. Um, you know, if you look uh 20 years out uh to liberal arts majors, they're doing just as well as as schools in uh more technical fields, uh certainly, you know, right
out of college. If you get a degree in a pre-professional program like engineering, uh you might make more in the first few years, but liberal arts majors quickly catch up because of this emphasis on uh lifelong learning. >> Thank you,
Dr. Delpr. Can you tell me uh the effect that financial support has on a student's likelihood of completion? >> We know from the research that uh students often time leave college because of small uh life events that um
move them off of the pathway. So for example, I was visiting a community college in uh Tennessee where students the average emergency grant that a student received was $80. And that was the difference oftent times between students being able to stay enrolled or students having to leave. So programs
like the higher education emermergency relief fund that Congress invested in years ago make a huge difference. We've done some research looking at programs in Texas and uh during that time the institutions with the most pel students actually had higher than average retention rates because of those
emergency grants that provide students with the resources just in time at the point where they needed them or where they were experiencing oftent times a life challenge that may um put them off track. >> And what kind of emergencies cost $80?
>> Pop tire. Uh you can't pay your electric bill. just the basic things that uh oftent times students may be facing. Uh if you're full-time enrolled and you're working full-time, I a significant number of students are working full-time. Those small life events can
lead you off track. Thank you. And Dr. Napier, um we passed a legislation that enable the PEL program to fund short-term programs. How would that fit into your micro stackable courses?
So it has to do again with workforce alignment there. What what is the return on investment for these programs given the way that they are positioned? You know, is that manufacturing? Is it cyber security, agriculture, so on and so forth? So when we talk about embedding AI into all of these things, what is
that immediate impact in the field? You know, do we know it right now? Will we see it over time? And and so, you know, as we go to launch new short-term programs or adapt those that are currently existing, we just take a look at the critical need, not only in the nation, but more importantly in the
state of Mississippi to ensure our our learners, both the traditional and non-traditional, have a pathway to employment. >> Thank you. Mr. Our Rende, you mentioned a positive um return on investment when you invest
in students. Can you explain that a little bit? >> Yeah, it's really uh straightforward. So, imagine you have a cycle and so the first phase of a cycle is increased investment in student supports, coaches, laptops, Wi-Fi. What that does is it improves in the second stage of the
cycle your retention rates. That means fewer students drop out. What happens when fewer students drop out? That means as an institution you retain more revenue. you actually your balance sheet goes up because each student who drops out previously would have been lost revenue that now you're holding on to
and what can you do with that new revenue? Well, then you can now reinvest in more student support services. So, it's really about getting that virtuous cycle started that does cost a lot of money upfront. We've raised over hund00 million to get going, but it's profitable as a system to invest in
student support services. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, gentlemen. I recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina, the the chairman emeritus, Miss Fox. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I
thank our witnesses for being here today. Uh Dr. Ducking, as president of a private institution, what actions have you taken or considered taking to control administrative growth? And do you believe institutions should be
required to demonstrate that growth in administrative cost correlate with improved student outcomes? Well, my uh college is located in a small uh rural town in um Michigan. We
have a relatively small endowment of about $85 million. And so there's not a lot of extra money to go around. And so we live every day uh reigning in costs and trying to be careful and trying to do everything we can to pinch every penny and then give it back to our
students. You know, 30 to 40% of our students are first generation students. And so I just want to frame this uh from the standpoint that uh administrative bloat at a school like Adrian is simply out of the question. We can't afford to do so. Um and so yes, we do uh
consistently monitor it. Um we um we pay attention to salaries and how many people are hiring and we try to give as much as we possibly can back to uh students through student aid. >> What reforms would most quickly increase
transparency for students and families evaluating whether a degree program is worth the cost? I think a lot of that information is available in the popular press. They'll show you what um majors make uh through the popular press. Obviously, there's a
website that I believe the government set up a number of years ago to show how colleges are doing. But we're a hightouch school. Um personal attention, a large class on our campus is 25 students. And if students are concerned about um you know how much they'll make in a certain major or what they're
learning, they can certainly contact us locally. Thank you. Uh Mr. Ourindi, uh young Americans are increasingly skeptical of the value of college. In your testimony, you warn of a generation increasingly opting out of higher
education, partly due to cost concerns and the fear of AI reacing jobs. Based on your experience, what concrete messages, program features, and supports have most effectively countered that skepticism and persuaded students that a
lean, targeted postsecondary path can be a smart investment rather than a waste of time and money. And I just want to comment too that your comments about retention are so important. Every school needs to be paying attention to that.
But if you could tell me uh give me an answer to my question. >> Yes. Thank you. Um Congresswoman, look, it's it's really simple. Two words resonate with students. No debt. It's that simple. Um for students, particularly the two-year space, they should not be taking on loans when our
completion rates are what they are. Even the best community colleges in the country don't have above 50% completion rates. So with with with um the reality being what it is, most of these students should not be taking on student loans. And that resonates. These students have a cousin, uncle, older sibling who has
taken on a lot of loans and who can't get great work. And that is the most effective anti-ol marketing that you could possibly conceive. And so I think the more that we can do to clarify to students, no, no, you shouldn't be taking on loans to take out to to
complete a community college degree, um, we should figure out ways as institutions to make it profitable for us to serve these students with the supports they need without them having to take on student loans. That resonates really well. >> I have another question for you. Campus edu has grown rapidly with a mission to
lower cost, improve degree completion. what specific design choices allow you to offer degrees at lower cost than traditional institutions? >> Yeah, so number one, it's about live online instruction. I think uh a lot of
the research and the data that we still collect at the Department of Ed on online learning um and and the lower completion rates of online learning misinterprets uh that there actually is a distinction between synchronous and asynchronous online classes. synchronous
online learning, meaning the student is there, the professor is there, and the classmates are all there in front of their computer screens at the same time, is going to have much better retention rates than asynchronous online. And again, when you have better retention rates, you have better retained revenue
that as an institution you can use to invest in more student support. So everything we do at campus is about improving retention and improving that graduation rate, which is in fact demonstrabably profitable. >> Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
>> Thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize the gentle lady from Oregon, Miss Bonamichi. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses. I agree the cost of post-secondary education today is unacceptable and we must do more. But if my colleagues in the majority truly
cared about improving student outcomes and opening doors of opportunity and lowering college costs, they would be fighting against President Trump's unconstitutional effort to dismantle the Department of Education. and they would have opposed the big ugly bill that eliminated subsidized student loans and
slashed federal funding for graduate education. These are policy choices and I want to note of course the cost of college is going up because costs are going up uh and because of widespread disinvestment at the state level as well in higher education. We should be
opening the door to higher education by investing investing in grants, investing in debt-free higher education, or at the very least interestf free loans in work study, but not by opening the door to for-profit groups with a dubious record
of success. And I want to start with Dr. Dolar. We already have several programs that improve student outcomes. the high school equivalency program. You mentioned the emergency program, loan program, the college assistant migrant program, TRIO and Gear Up. But unfortunately, the Trump administration
and House Republicans proposed cutting rather than investing in those programs. So, how important are programs like TRIO and Gear Up, especially for marginalized first generation college students? And why is funding these programs important? >> I think providing students with pathways
and information for college is critical. And so these programs serve as that important social capital resources resource that many times students oftentimes lack. There's really good research. It's called the Wisconsin status status attainment model that shows that students who actually have
one person in their life who is telling them about post-secary education that is investing time in them actually have higher academic and occupational outcomes in those students who don't have that. They've been repeating this study since the 1950s um in rural towns. They've done it in uh in uh urban areas
and they've done it in other areas and it's called significant others influence these >> really makes a difference. I don't want to interrupt you but I have another question I want to move on. >> They serve as that that critical that critical uh connection point for students. >> Absolutely. Um and and Dr. Dipolar um
2024 the digital education council survey showed that institutes of higher education are facing these simultaneous challenges. students are turning to AI tools without a strong foundation in digital or critical literacy and faculty have limited support and how to integrate and supervise AI. So according
to a survey 86% of students are using AI but one in two of them don't feel equipped with the digital skills they need to move into the workforce and the council's um faculty survey this year found that only 6% of faculty feel that their institution provides sufficient AI
literacy development resources. So what do we need to to adapt to this? Um is are there examples of someone or some place where they're doing this? Well, >> I mean I think colleges are still really struggling with how to integrate AI into their curricular model into teaching and learning. And so I would say that
institutions are still grappling with how to deal with AI and deal with it. I think our my colleague from Mississippi um may provide some other examples, but I think colleges are still struggling with the uh with the practical application of AI in the classroom in a curricular setting.
>> Thank you. you and no doubt this is this is a conversation about innovation. We need to talk about that more. Uh Dr. Ducking, I grew up in Michigan, so I I know Albian uh know it well. Uh but I but I live in Oregon now and I and I followed closely the collapse of
Concordia University and eventual closure of Concordia. They decided they'd get some help from one of these OPM online program management companies and it was needless to say a disaster. So, I just have a couple of questions for you because I'm trying to understand this. You are a co-owner of Rise
Education. Is that correct? >> Uh, I have a very small piece of it as a co-founder. Yes. >> And, and RISE is a for-profit entity. Is that >> correct? >> So, so I want to get a clarification here. So, the fewer professors there are on campus at Albian, the more money RISE
makes. Is that correct? >> No, that's not correct, Pam. Uh essentially there's a set price to start like a new major, you know, say subscription price. It may be between 10 and $15,000 and then you pay a per pupil
um you know fee uh that um some of it goes to the platform and then some of it goes to the teaching institution. The idea is to lower costs dramatically on the front end and then colleges can do uh what they want with that. So, it's
not uh that the the fewer professors you have, the more it is for Rise. It's it's not at all that model, >> but it it is a for-profit entity and you do have fewer professors on campus. And Mr. Chair, as I yield back, I just want to say it's disheartening that colleges have to turn to for-profit entities to
keep their doors open. Again, that's a policy choice. Yet, this Congress found $170 billion dollar to give to the Department of Homeland Security to carry out a brutal and inhumane and immoral mass deportation policy that's causing trauma across the country. I find that
pathetic. What we need, and I agree with you, Mr. Chairman, about the importance of this committee, but instead of a mass deportation policy, we should have a mass education policy instead. And I yield back. I thank the gentle lady and take her
comments to heart. I now recognize the gentleman from Georgia, uh the chair of the help subcommittee, Mr. Allen. Thank you, Chairman Wahlberg, for holding uh this important hearing and uh want to thank our witnesses uh for your
expert expert testimonies uh this morning addressing uh higher education, the status of higher education and uh as uh we have discussed uh we've got problems there. Uh well well one of
the problems is a lot of the students enrolled in college uh in fact uh in 2023 13% of students who took a UC San Diego math assessment could not perform at first grade level.
Uh so um and and then of course it becomes the university's responsibility to deal with this and uh so we we've got a lot of work to do on K through 12 and then certainly uh the colleg's uh need
to deal with uh the rising college education is not affordable today and graduates report that the cost of a degree often outweighs the benefits with published tuition rates. increased by 500% since 1970.
Additionally, the number one issue that every business I meet with faces is workforce challenges. Our education uh our education group is not talking to the business group and the business group is not
talking with the education group and uh and we have a huge shortage of skilled workforce in this country. Uh AI and automation are transforming industries, yet higher education isn't evolving fast enough to equip students with the skills
employers demand. Uh Dr. Napier, with AI platforms handling more student information, from learning data to advising records, data privacy has become a pressing concern. Colleges receiving federal funds are required to protect student records
under FURPA. Can you discuss how frameworks such as Mississippi statewide data governance policies and human in the loop requirements ensure that deploying AI in education doesn't compromise student privacy or security? >> Thank you for the question. So when when
utilizing AI, I'd say data is the number one thing you need. So when we talk about student data, it's ensuring that there is authorization but also access to the specific data that you need um and specific authorities who have access to that and the way that they can
utilize that as well. So it's ensuring compliance there with with state and federal laws. It's ensuring the security standpoint of it, but also seeing what we even need it for. You know what what is that ROI on using the data and applying it to AI? >> Bottom line, you have to have guard rails.
>> Absolutely. Yes, sir. Uh, Mr. Orine Orier Ryan, did I get that close? >> No, sir. But thank you very much for trying. >> Well, excuse me. I went to Auburn, so you know, you'll just have to excuse that. Uh, got a got a technical degree
there. Uh, but anyway, campus uh seems attuned to workforce trends, offering programs in high demand fields like applied AI, modern business administration, and information technology. How do you determine which programs to develop and how do you make certain your curriculum stays aligned
with the evolving needs of industry and the economy to ensure a clear return on investments for your students? >> Well, as Dr. Ding already said, you have to work with employers. If you're not as an institution spending a lot of time with employers trying to understand not just what skills and competencies are
relevant today, but what are the needs of the workforce going to be 5 years from now, which is more challenging than it's ever been with the advent of AI. you're not going to be setting up students for success. And I think I would advise other institutions to just decide what are you here to do? What is higher education for? You know, some
institutions it's a country club for the affluent children. Others it might be a minor league sports team. Our two-year colleges for for sure need to be preparing students for uh career and workforce readiness. And that's what uh we've decided to do. And and the way you
do that is by interfacing with employers closely. >> Good. Good. Um well obviously uh we've got a lot of work to do u and our education system uh this uh you know technology is moving rapidly. Uh we're
in a global competition on AI and uh and broadband and and 5G and then there's going to be 6G. So, uh, it's moving at lightning speed and, uh, you know, somehow we've got to,
uh, uh, give young people the opportunity to and prepare them for, uh, the future. Mr. Dawan, you got any comments regarding We got 9 seconds. I just want to affirm everything that you just said. We've got a long way to
go. What I want you and the other uh members of this committee to know though is that from the college side, I do believe we're working together much more closely than ever before to bring down the cost for students as indicated by this consortium. >> Great. That's good news. Uh Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
>> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the educator from California, Mr. Tano. >> Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Del Pilar, I want to focus in on dual enrollment and comm and early college. Can you tell the committee how dual
enrollment and early college uh brings down the cost of college? >> I mean there there are lots of positive outcomes that result from dual enrollment, but um in a perfect world, students are taking courses that they won't have to repeat in college, so they're earning college credit. Uh
well-designed pathways model can um save a student from 12 credits up to um the first full two years of college. So early college high school models for example will uh students will graduate with an associates degree that is saving a student two years of college tuition depending on the funding model of the
state. There are states that will will pick up the entire cost of that. Um in some states uh it requires a student to invest resources which obviously creates some inequities and who can participate. >> Okay. So it varies from state to state. Uh can can you tell me uh have early
college or dual enrollment or uh middle colleges uh have these have these u situations been uh increasing uh over the past decade? >> I mean dual enrollment has is increased dramatically over the last I would say three to five years with a significant
number of high school students taking advantage of dual enrollment courses. We've also kind of seen the explosion of early college high schools. Um, there's a lot of really good models in the lower Rio Grande Valley in Texas that have are actually doing quite good work in advancing opportunities for students for
low-income students from the lower Rio Grande Valley who are earning graduating high school with an associates degree the same day they walk across that stage. >> Um, Mr. Delpard, um, my experience on this committee is there's been bipartisan interest in this topic. Mr. Chairman, I would urge the chairman to
consider uh having the committee do site visits around the country where dual enrollment and early college uh and middle colleges are working. Um can you tell me can you tell the committee how dual enrollment
uh whether it's early college comprehensive or not um has improved the prospects of minority students? Uh the re the research on dual enrollment is quite promising. When we look at the the uh results of dual enrollment uh students it increases high school
graduation rate. It increases college enrollment. It increases the likelihood of degree completion. There's shortage shorter average time to earn a credential. We know that low-income students who participate have higher levels of degree attainment than their peers who who do not. And so we know
that it has a lot of positive outcomes for those students who may not see themselves as college student, but with success in one dual enrollment course, they're more likely to go on and earn a post-secondary credential. >> Um, Mr. Wer, can you tell me how has the
federal government historically been a part of helping this this model proliferate or increase across the country? Department of education been helpful in that regard? Uh historically the department uh several years ago they ran a pilot um which allowed students to
use some PEL access uh an experimental program that allowed students to use PEL access for dual enrollment uh through ESA students ESS through ESSA students can also districts can also invest through their title one dollars in helping to pay for dual enrollment. So
there have been resources but by and large states are investing their own resources in this or parents and families are having to invest resources. So it does create that inequity and who can participate. >> Has has um has the data that's been produced by department research been
helpful in helping us understand the the utility of this model? >> I would argue that the best data that we're getting actually comes from states um in terms of the assessment that they're doing of dual enrollment programs that they're offering. So um Texas is one state that has really good data on dual enrollment. Um there
Alabama has really good data on dual enrollment. Tennessee has really good data. We don't have the data infrastructure. If we invested in the college transparency act, maybe we'd have better data. >> Mr. Oryendi, I'm curious about your two-year model. Um, have you looked at
or considered um getting on this this dual enrollment bandwagon or working with the public schools uh to partner as many community colleges do? And and um I mean I'm I I applaud that you're that the low-income students uh don't pay
anything under your model. Um, I'm thinking this could be very exciting if you were to partner with um our K12 schools or the high schools in helping students uh avoid two years of college costs uh by doing some sort of early
college model. Sounds like you've been eavesdropping in some of our meeting rooms, but um yes, that's exactly the plan. I think the best way to market and get the word out about college not being inaccessible, not being lowquality, not being high debt is to give students a
little taste and we're doing that um next year in big way. >> My time is up, but I I would love to know your student uh to teacher ratio uh and how you achieve how that works. But I yield back, Mr. Chairman. >> I thank the gentleman in answer to your question. If you notice, this week is
going to be a rather full um week for this committee. Uh trying to catch up with some things and do it in such a way that'll give us opportunities for things like you're talking about and seeing what's actually going out in the marketplace of education and ideas. So
I I I take your recommendation to heart. I now recognize the gentleman from South Carolina, Mr. Wilson. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Mr. Chairman, indeed this is a bipartisan committee and it was exciting to see the questions by Congressman Tukano uh and Mr. Oendo.
It is fascinating to think uh that these classes can be provided online uh and that the uh cost uh can be um what you've indicated and and what this means as opportunities for young people. And so I want to wish you well and uh and in
line with Congressman Takano uh the ability of providing this uh field to uh high school uh education what uh is being done working with state superintendents of education. >> Yeah. So we're just getting um geared up to uh launch big initiatives next year
um in in the dual enrollment and early college space. As has already been discussed, it's really important to get students there. What we did first was we focused on partnering with four-year universities. So students who come to campus get guaranteed admission into Arizona State University, Morehouse, and
Atlanta, Butler University in Indiana, and many other great schools. Now that we have those guaranteed admissions pathways, we've we're beginning to partner with high schools to do dual enrollment at no cost to students. >> That's terrific. And Dr. NPR, I want you to know your last name is highly
respected in South Carolina, one of our former colleagues, Congressman John Npier. So, I wish I want to wish you well and I'm really grateful for the leadership of President Donald Trump with his executive order concerning artificial intelligence to uh advance AI
uh education. And I think it is more important today uh than ever because we've seen examples of AI generated Facebook videos. Uh we've seen the uh James Earl Jones this week where his voice was fabricated uh in
impersonation. The Dolly Parton uh this week uh was identified with selling pharmaceuticals and maybe not. Uh and then of course we've seen splicing as we saw sadly with the BBC of President Trump's uh speeches and uh just
inconceivable what can be done. And then you can have candidates being mocked uh with fake dancing routines. um by uh AI. What uh recommendation do you have uh for the uh for the identification of AI
generated? What what what should be done and what laws are there that there be uh identification uh prior to um publication andor um uh printing or uh distribution? Are there any requirements? now.
>> So, thank you for the question. And right now, you know, we there's a lot of growing pains that are happening, especially with what we consider generative AI, the this the chat GPT, the Gemini, the the tools we're hearing more of today. Those are still, in my
opinion, in their infancy. So, we're we're learning the good, the bad, the ugly that comes to play. But we're seeing the companies behind these tools become more innovative and find ways to identify um you know generated imagery
or videos or audio to better identify on social media platforms or just for the public view. But all of this goes back to data literacy or AI literacy understanding the power of it uh that the capabilities at hand and understanding that one bad apple should
not spoil the bunch for everyone else. There's a lot of innovation at play, but there is a lot of things we need to consider with the advancement of this. >> And and I'm really grateful that Congressman Tom Keane of New Jersey has offered legislation uh for uh that would
help identify uh by disclosure, transparency of AI generation. uh and in particular uh it's something that I would like to see possibly at the bottom of the screen of anything that has been AI generated that it would be identified
as AI generated. Uh and so with the uh we can respect uh freedom of speech. Uh we don't want to respect uh to reject that but at the same time there uh the public needs to know whether it's been generated or not. uh is it actually the
individual uh who may be doing a dance routine? So, so transparency would be the answer in in this case uh across the board you know from a um enduser perspective versus the company generating it you know that needs to be understood what
what is being done and how it could potentially be manipulated of course but but the transparency is key in that and understanding how it was used and what percentage has been generated by it and of course as always the accuracy or inaccuracy of the things being produced.
Well, I'm I'm really grateful that uh as you're studying this that it be looked into because uh for the American public uh we want to have freedom of speech, but we also want to protect a person's reputations uh and uh and avoid uh the abuses, as you have indicated, of what
could be really good. And so I want to thank you. I wish you well. I'm so grateful for President Trump's leadership. I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentle lady from North Carolina, another former educator for your five minutes of questioning. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
to our witnesses for being here today. I I know we're here today to discuss innovative technologies, but but I want to start with the basics. Beyond tuition costs, students also worry about how they will afford expenses like food and housing and health care, transportation,
and child care. And because of the big ugly law, many students, particularly non-traditional students, will lose access to SNAP benefits and affordable health care coverage. Their dreams and aspirations will be stripped away to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy. Dr. Del
Pillar, uh, can you give us an overview of what basic needs today's college students may lack and and how these challenges impact student retention and completion? I mean, students face sign significant needs and we see states trying to
address this needs, but the reality is we're not going to food pantry our way out of food insecurity for students. I don't think that's a long-term answer to have our college set up a food pantry to address student hunger or to allow students to park in campuses to address homelessness among students. And so, I
do think we need more systemic solutions when we think about the issues that students face. They are facing food insecurity. They're facing housing insecurity. they're facing issues around uh affordable health care and mental health services. And so I think with those type of wraparound supports uh you
know we we do see u among the students who actually get those services we do see increases in retention and graduation students who don't have access to those unfortunately many times don't make it to uh to graduation. >> Thank you. Thank you. I'm a 40-year retired professor. So, I do understand
uh research has consistently shown that students succeed when colleges provide meaningful wraparound student support services. Uh these programs address issues such as food insecurity, child care, technology, mental health. So, can you share any examples of of promising
student support programs that you've seen in your work? And how do these programs impact student retention and completion? I mean I think that there are a lot of examples of colleges doing good work. I think of Compton College for example in California um where uh my
friend and colleague uh who's president there has set up uh temp housing for students. So a community college that offers students housing especially in an area that is u expensive for students to be able to live. I think is he's making significant strides in student housing. I think uh other colleges that are
offered like CUNI ASAP which is one of the examples that I used in my uh in my testimony provide those wraparound support including access to transportation which we often don't think about as a basic need for students. >> Thank you. According to a a 2018 report
from government accountability office 46% of building space on HB.CU campuses need to be repaired or replaced. Uh have uh how have innovative financial models like the H.B.CU CU capital financing program address infrastructure needs at H.B.CU. I
>> mean, I think H.B.CU's faced significant challenges. My daughter attended H.B.CU. She went to Tuskegee University. Um, and I'll just say during the pandemic when uh the instruction moved to remote learning, um, they were using the free version when students at more uh,
wealthier institutions had the full version of Zoom. They would get kicked out of class every 30 minutes. And so I'll say we need to continue to invest in minority serving institutions, HB.CU to ensure that they have the infrastructure. Unfortunately, uh some of the FIPSY dollars were actually uh
dedicated to community to uh H.B.CU. And those funds uh were spent on other uh were redirected towards other other purposes and I would say that we have to continue investing in H.B.CU and minority serving institutions uh because they do face significant challenges especially around deferred maintenance.
Thank you, sir. You know, without infrastructure, uh, modern classrooms and modern classrooms, our schools will will struggle to implement many of the promising initiatives that we've discussed today. So, what work still needs to be done to address chronic infrastructure problems, modernize
H.B.CU campuses, and improve instructional uh, technology to allow the implementation of innovative learning models. >> I mean, I think we need significant investment in these institutions. uh some research has shown from IS that these institution have been starved of resources for years and so I think
additional resources to invest in infrastructure to invest in technology to invest in deferred maintenance. I was also a board member at Lincoln and Cheney University and saw uh with my own eyes the resources and the boarding up of buildings that could be used uh to improve student academic outcomes. And
so I would say dedicated funding towards institutions that are doing the lion share of access work especially for low-income students and students of color is critical. >> Thank you so much. And I absolutely agree with you Mr. Chairman. I'm going to yield those 14 seconds back. >> I thank the gentle lady. That'll be a
credit. Recognize the chair of the higher education workforce subcommittee, the gentleman from Utah, Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Um, I tell you what I'm excited about in 2025 that we're finally uh speaking the
truth about our educational system. Is it broken? It has been for decades. Uh, it's sad that we had to to look around the kids' uh shoulders and during COVID and October 7th to come this this conclusion. But I think we can all agree, no matter which side I were on, that we have millions of our kids getting degrees that mean absolutely
nothing. Uh leaving higher ed with debt they can never pay off, not prepared to go to work and icing on the cake turn into activists who hate our country. So I want to thank uh Chairman Wahberg first of all for the pace of correcting this ship. I was reminded by my team yesterday that this week coming off this
uh this the uh shutdown education workforce be the most active uh with hearings than any other committee. over the last year has passed more legislation than than any of the last 20 plus years. Uh there's something I learned years years ago about u you cannot control the school board but you
can control the the hustle. Uh this this committee is hustling. I appreciate that. I also want to thank uh the panelists. Uh your gift and your vision of innovation is invaluable to our country. Uh the fact you put our kids first instead of institution makes our institutions even better. So I want to thank you for that. Uh we're leaning in
hard for your innovation. We need uh to get this thing done and and done correctly. So that being said um uh Dr. Ding Docking you mentioned uh you mentioned your rise platform and very briefly uh and this you made this point uh it leverages technology in ways never
used before remaking the business model of higher education what uh can be done as is this model can it be replicated and adopted uh throughout our country >> it will be Mr. Owens and I'd be surprised if 10 years from now just
about every school in the country isn't sharing classes in some form or fashion. You know, the beauty of this model is that it really preserves what's best about traditional college education. We didn't want to put together a model where a student had, you know, dinner with their parents and then just went up
into their bedroom to take a class or two from their home. We we love that uniquely American experience of going away to college and building a loft and mom and dad have tears at the door and you're meeting new friends and going to class and you know participating in student government and chapel and eating
the D. All of that is wonderful. We want to preserve that. But we have to figure out a way to control costs and and the way to do that is through technology and sharing. And so we feel like, and it's like I said, it's happening on 140 campuses now nationwide, that this
working together, this partnership, which is a word that we use a lot, can preserve what's best, but bring an element of technology into it to truly lower costs in a much more effective way. >> Thank you. I just want to make a point. I'm uh taking courses now on Hillsdale College in the morning. Um would love to
have that kind of connection with you guys for sure. That kind of stuff is good. So anyway, um uh Dr. Natler um with the implementation based on your statewide work the implication uh uh implementation challenges do you frequently see on the ground that and
and uh which actually supports proven to have proven most practical in helping colleges affordability in AI. >> So I think the challenge still remains making AI important for individual usage whether that's students or faculty or administration. So, if I'm an English
instructor, how can I best apply AI to my practice? If I'm, you know, teaching an advanced manufacturing course, again, how can I best apply? And I think as we continue to see more of the adoption in these specific areas and fields, we're going to see building of trust and comfort. And that's going to in turn um
go back to our students and the way that they can engage with it because our instructors are are trusting. We we're what doing what we call educate the educator and uh turning around and and providing that for our students and the things that are working of course is communication amongst the the faculty
and the students the administration and the faculty but more so the employers the workforce and them turning around and telling academia what they truly need in this current time. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um Mr. Ori or Rende I actually had a little
bit of a longer question but I'm running out of time. I just so I just want to ask you real quickly, how old were you when you uh decided to purchase this two-year college? >> I I think I was 28 or 29. >> Okay. Uh can I can I just ask all of you guys and and all those innovators who
are listening in uh please let's add to your curriculum capitalism free market impact on growing our middle class. Uh we've had so many decades of our system hijacked by anti- capitalist Marxists and we need to be more um non-adverse,
need to be more innovative outside thinking outside the box. So I want to thank you guys for that and let's just really get our kids thinking of how can I run my own business? How can I take risk? How can I appreciate the entrepreneur and how innovation should never come with the word but either we do or we die. And I appreciate what you
guys are doing. So thank you and I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. And I recognize the gentle lady from Georgia, Miss McBath. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, thank you, uh, Ranking Member Scott, and to our witnesses for being here today. Thank you so much. I don't have any formal
questions for you today, but I do have some things I'd just kind of like to say. Um, I do want to say that Congress and the Trump administration should be doing more to lower costs and improve our students outcomes, as many of you have just already expressed. However,
the actions taken by my Republican colleagues are only increasing costs for students and families and making it more difficult for them to succeed in school and at work. Instead of making financial aid more accessible for students who are
raising families or working to put themselves through school, House Republicans voted to exclude part-time students from financial aid programs like PEL. Instead of making it easier for students with disabilities to get
around campus and to graduate on time, they have gutted offices and programs at the Department of Education that students rely on like the Office of Civil Rights and the Institute of Education Sciences, also known as IEES.
In February, President Trump and Secretary McMahon cancelled the Charting My Path for Future Success programs at IIEES. A study that served over 1,600 disabled students and their families across 62 high schools, including Paul
County and my home state of Georgia. It was year round and involved frequent small group sessions to ensure that physically disabled juniors and seniors as well as students with dyslexia, autism, and other disabilities
and their families can meet their goals of transitioning from high school to college or the workplace and succeeding at the same level as their non-disabled peers. Unfortunately, students with disabilities are less
likely to graduate college or be gainfully employed after high school. But it doesn't have to be this way. Seeing your child grow up to thrive, that is the goal of every parent. And it
takes on another level of significance. When your child has a condition that makes getting around or learning more difficult, it takes a different level of commitment to ensure that they can reach the
potential that every parent wants to see fulfilled in their kids to give parents the peace of mind that their child will be okay when mom and dad aren't around. The Charting My Path CR Pro program spent 25 million taxpayer dollars to
actively recruit teachers and families to participate. What was supposed to be a once-ina-lifetime opportunity for families became just another broken promise from this administration. On this poster, you can see the exact
email that was sent out to parents in the middle of the school year. It says the federal funding provided by the Department of Education for this initiative has been discontinued immediately and our district can no
longer continue the charting my path study activities. When I showed this email to secretary to the secretary during her appearance before this committee last year or earlier this year, she couldn't even remember the program. That's how little
our little little our students futures mean to her and to this administration. Making the dream of living independently with a disability a reality. Providing the peace of mind that your child really is going to be okay when you're no longer around. Those things mean nothing
to this secretary and to this president. Let me be very clear. There's nothing innovative about cancelling programs in the middle of the school year without any say from parents. There's no innovation in wasting 25 million
taxpayer dollars only to let hundreds of families down after you promise to be there for them. Time and time again, this administration and the Republicans in Congress ask the people to listen to what they say, but they but then ask
them to ignore what they do. I look forward to working with any Republican colleague on real solutions, not just talking about them when it's convenient, and then cancelling programs that are meant to solve the very problems brought
up in these hearings over and over again. And I yield. >> I thank the gentle lady and I recognize the gentle lady from Illinois, Miss Miller. >> Thank you, Mr. chairman for hosting this
hearing and to each of our witnesses for testifying today and I'm so happy to hear how you're innovating. You're looking for ways and solutions on how to improve our educational system. I really appreciate it. Given that the central
challenge of attending college is affordability, it should come as no surprise that the average cost of a college degree has roughly tripled in the last 25 years. Currently, an instate student attending a public university
spends over 27,000 per academic year. This is a major increase from 1999 to 2000 in which the average total cost was roughly 9,000. In my home state of Illinois, the current cost is even
higher with some instate students spending up to $40,000 per year, which I do want to inject that in Illinois, a sanctuary state, our governor has secured special eligibility and aid and benefits if for students
that are not here lawfully. Um, but that's another subject. But in order to finance this education, 42.5 million students take out federal loans and may take them out for up to 40 up to 20 years to pay for them. In fact, when
you add in student loan interest and loss potential income, some bachelor's degrees can cost over $500,000. Despite the rising cost of giving a degree, getting a degree, colleges are failing to adequately prepare students to enter a rapidly changing workforce,
which I believe our witnesses are here because you're looking for solutions here. Too many students are pressured into getting an expensive four-year degree when more affordable community colleges and trade schools could teach them the skills that are far more
practical and marketable. I believe that everyone should have an opportunity to pursue an education, but we must find solutions to make college more affordable and a better return on investment. My first question is for Dr. Nate Gear.
Could you please elaborate on how artificial intelligence affects students workforce readiness? Simply, how do universities ensure that AI bias does not negatively impact student learning? keeping in mind that most AI models tend
to favor leftleaning narratives. >> Thank you for the question and the key element here is human in the loop having human oversight with implementation or involvement of AI when it comes to the instructional pathway um you know for faculty to student or for any other
operational aspect of that there. So there needs to be clear instructions and policies. There needs to be uh the human oversight as I mentioned and of course auditing and even making a comparison amongst multiple models. >> So when you do find an left-leaning AI
uh model presenting its information, how do you address that then? >> So it could be um it depends on the context uh there. you know, if you're in a development deployment stage, maybe you could fine-tune it to uh re reemphasize some of the the topics at
hand. But beyond that, I think it goes back to how you're talking to it, the the prompting, so to speak, the effective communication there. But it's also very much dependent on the data in which these models were built upon, which a lot of times we as the end user don't know about.
>> And secondly, Dr. docking. Can you share some examples of how your course sharing platform has helped other colleges and universities in developing their online courses? >> Yeah. Yes, ma'am. Um, you know, many of these uh colleges are located in small
towns throughout America. There's essentially 8 to 900 Adrian colleges out there and they're really economic drivers uh for these small towns. uh these uh colleges uh can't even find professors in these small towns to teach
things like AI and cyber security and even computer science. And so this model allows them to draw on the the strength and resources and intellect of various other communities that have these resources so that uh students on their
campus can have the quality of education uh that they'd like to have and it'll make a difference when they hit the workplace. So it really creates a much more robust pool of professors uh to teach these students than we can often find in these small towns. >> That's great. Thank you. And lastly, Mr.
Oier Reende, sorry. Can you share some examples of partnerships with campus edu, how you've lowered costs and outcomes for college administrations? Yeah, look um obviously and I know we're almost out of time. AI to help automate
a lot of back office processes frees up students uh time and professors time to spend time with students directly. >> Thank you. Keep up the great work. >> I thank the gentle lady and I thank Mr. Oende as well. Very seldom do we have
witnesses that recognize the time. Thank you for helping us. Of course, we don't have many members who recognize time either, myself included. Now, I recognize uh for her five minutes of questioning another uh educator on this committee, the gentle lady from
Connecticut, Miss Hayes. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I begin my questions, I'd like to share your enthusiasm that I too am excited that we are back in this committee doing the work that is important. And I agree with you that the work of this committee is
some of the most important work in the Congress. I would like to put on your radar that on September 12th, I sent a letter to you signed by many of the members of this committee asking for a hearing on school shootings. So I am reminding you of that today while I wait
for a response and urge you that as you are planning out the second half of the year and the work of this committee that we address this incredibly important conver this incredibly important topic and begin to at least work towards solutions on this committee.
Uh Dr. Ding, I would like to say to you that I appreciate your comments about the foundational importance of a liberal arts education. I started my education at a community college and went on to earn multiple um graduate and
post-graduate degrees. And you are correct in that it establishes the foundation for lifelong learning. To today's hearing, the educational landscape is ever changing and it's important to embrace innovation in the classroom. We cannot run from cell
phones, AI, or any future technology. We need to be forward thinking about ways that we can best teach students and ensure they are getting a highquality education that will be foundational to their lives. But that starts with ensuring our teachers, professors, and administrators are properly prepared and
have the skills to implement these emerging technologies. As you said, Dr. Napier, the human in the loop. Unfortunately, on February 10th, 2025, the Trump administration ordered the termination of nearly $1 billion dollar in ongoing federal education research
and evaluation efforts at the Institution of Education Sciences and fired an undisclosed number of employees. The IIES is the research arm of the Department of Education. Dr. Dr. Delp Polar, in your testimony,
you mentioned that the IIEES quote assists states, schools, and educators with making da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d dabback decisions assessing the impacts of various education programs and interventions and more effectively supporting student learning. Can you share an example of some of the
research at the IAS that has helped support teachers and administrators in integrating innovation in their classroom and how that could benefit us as we look forward to AI? Sorry about that. One of the things that uh one of the services that I has
traditionally hosted was the what works clearing house. It provides significant evidence of evidence-based practices that impact student learning uh and completion. And I think that that's one of the the um compendiums that provides uh educators uh researchers, college
administrators with significant research on what has been done, what works, and what is effective. Why should this this be done at the federal level? >> I think it's easier to collect that type of data at the federal level. It's very expensive to provide example. Number one. Number two, I think that the
Department of Education previously used to bring folks together to really share those evidence-based practices that are working across states for us to have examples of what is working not only in one place but across the country. >> I was thinking about that when Dr. docking said that sometimes businesses
and education institutions are not talking to each other. Could you imagine the herculean task it would be for every state to administer this type of program when AI is moving so quickly? So at the federal level would be the best place to collect this research and data so that
even the states that don't have the funding or the resources could access it from the federal government. Um without IEES, its knowledgeable staff or the products it publishes, it will be hard for colleges to benchmark their outcomes and ensure that any innovative practice
result in actual student success. The 2026 budget released by this administration cut funding for the teacher quality partnership which is one one of numerous programs designed to address affordability and improve in retention and completion for students.
Back to you uh Dr. Delpalar. Do you believe cutting the funding for TQP or other teaching preparation programs is going to better support the implementation of advanced technologies in the classroom? >> No. I think that those type of uh resources towards states and towards districts. I used to actually administer
it for the state of Pennsylvania. It creates innovation and education. It provides uh evidence of what works in a state and what's possible in terms of partnership in terms of proving outcomes for students. >> Thank you. And as I've said on this committee oftent times that while curriculum is decided at the state and
local level, teacher preparation and the supports that are involved in making sure that the people who stand in front of our children have the best training and resources available is something that the department and the federal government um has historically done. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
>> I thank the gentle lady. I recognize now the gentleman from North Carolina, Mr. Harris. >> Thank you, Mr. chairman and uh thanks to all of you who are serving on this panel today and uh I've been back and forth between other committees and uh but I did have an opportunity to read your
testimonies and uh certainly enjoyed reading those and the work that that you're doing. Uh Dr. Docking Docking, I want to just come to you first. In your testimony, you noted that by allowing colleges to share access to staff and courses virtually through the shared
model that you developed that Adrian College has reduced its academic payroll cost by more than $2 million in recent years. In fact, you projected that these savings could cause tuition to drop 20 to 30% in the coming years. So my
question is, do you think that other colleges could similarly cut cost and tuition without sacrificing the academic quality? >> I do, Mr. Harris. And um one of the reasons why I do obviously is that it's happening in real time at Adrian
College. You know, if you look at what students want these days, especially post pandemic, they want some of their courses to be online. You know, before the uh pandemic at a place like Adrian, we all thought, "Oh, everyone just wants the traditional four walls and a
professor up front." That's not the case. We did a survey with uh around 10,000 students a year ago, and students said that they would like two out of every four classes to be online. And that's often because they work or they're playing a sport or they have
other obligations, maybe even raising a child. And so, uh, online classes have gotten so much better than they were just a few years ago that students are getting a lot out of these classes. The other thing I'll mention and is that, uh, 84% of the students who take these
classes say they're as good as or better than current, uh, classes they're taking on campuses. >> Wow. Well, it's refreshing to hear. I want you to know about your efforts to bring down those costs for your students. It seems that around here uh we seem to be stuck in the mentality
that if we throw more money at the problem that somehow it's going to go away. But you also noted in your testimony that and I want to quote from it, the future of higher education depends on adaptation, not higher tuition, larger federal outlays or
reliance on donors. End quote. So, as we think about ways that Congress can play a part in the solution, I'd really love to hear your thoughts. And uh do you think the government contributes to the skyrocketing college cost through the policies like uncapped loans?
>> Um I don't know whether uh that's the case. Like I said earlier, I I think you may have been out of the room that we really do pay attention to every penny, but I do think where the federal government can be very helpful is in the area of dual enrollment because there are so many high school kids that are
ready to take college classes in certain disciplines and they they some of these high schools literally it cost them money to have one of their kids dual enroll. So, I would encourage the federal government to look at whether they could incentivize uh educators to
push kids onto college. They're ready for it. The only other thing I'll mention related to your first question is 24 students enrolled in these online classes four years ago. Now I have,00 that means that I don't have the need for as many professors on campus and that and we have cut back on the number
of professors just through retirements etc. Sure. >> We haven't cut departments and um and that has uh given us more money to uh give back to students in financial aid. >> Well, I agree. When you subsidize something, you tend to get more of it. In fact, there was a study of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York that
found that for every additional dollar of subsidized loan money available to students, colleges raise their tuition by as much as 60s. And that's a natural response from schools if they know they have an unlimited supply of money on one end. But over time, that policy, I
believe, is breaking our system because it doesn't set students up for success. And it's clear to me today that the private sector is going to lead the way in bringing down college cost, but that the federal government needs to ensure our policies will incentivize that same
thing. And I'm glad that the big beautiful bill we enacted had some common sense caps on the amount of money students can can borrow. In the last 40 seconds, I want to go to you, Dr. Npir, if I may. Your testimony emphasized the importance of the Trump administration's
AI action plan and cautions that federal regulatory overreach could unintentionally hinder innovation from your vantage point. Can you just give us some specific types of federal rules, mandates or reporting burdens that would
be most harmful to the innovation? >> Thank you for the question and and in general any sort of mandates here will slow the progress of innovation. So if there if there needs to be anything enacted, it needs to be clear and and pretty open to allow people to to
innovate in the space and um to allow us to to do great things. >> Great. Well, thank you. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize the gentle lady from Pennsylvania, Miss Lee. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, as somebody
who um, of course went to college and spent or will be paying off loans for the rest of my life, I I college affordability is like one of the more important things to me. One of my concerns is that often times we come in here and we have uh, hearings and then
we have policy suggestions that quite frankly just fall short. They fall short of meeting just how big the problem is. They fall short of making considerations for people who are least likely to already have access to wealth, access to, you know, folks in their lives who
have gone to college communities that have already been marginalized in some way. I wonder sometimes why it is that so many other countries have been able to figure out free public education for all of their students from prek to higher education and we just haven't been able to do it. It's not because we
don't have the money. We're the wealthiest nation on earth. I think we spend more on the military than the next seven or nine countries combined. Is not because we need to invent a wheel. It is already been invented. There are already solutions that exist. Other countries
have figured out free higher education without moving courses exclusively online or making faculty obsolete or requiring everyone to be a STEM major. Higher education in this country is just going to remain broken. Also, as long as we don't fix those root failures that we
continue to inherit generation after generation from preK to 12, we can't skip the steps of making sure kids have early access to learning or of addressing deep inequities in our schools of actually filling the gaps instead of uh outsourcing it out to
PragerU. How are we going to be more innovative in higher education when we haven't addressed any of these root causes? when we have an administration that devalues the very idea of education is stripping away poor kids ability to even go to college in the first place
when our country has been chronically underfunding the institutions serving the largest shares of lowincome uh students and students of color since inception. So Dr. uh Del Palar how does this chronic underfunding of these institutions of higher education impact their ability to meet the students
needs? All right. I think underfunding institutions uh effectively what happens is they're not able to provide the supports that we've talked about on this uh on this uh in this hearing that actually lead to graduation. So if you're underfunded as an institution, you can't provide the wraparound
supports. You can't provide services like ASAP. You can't provide access to uh to uh advisors. You can't provide access to to career advising. And so um effectively stripping institution of resources does does not allow those institutions to then offer the supports
that help students more successful be more successful >> certainly. So instead of actually addressing these issues with solutions we know work because again other countries are using them every day. This administration is working tirelessly to make college even less accessible, less affordable and and essentially less
successful. At University of Pittsburgh in my district I know a lot of folks have been mentioning programs that are successful in their districts. We have a program called the PEL Plus that matches students PEL grant funds to make tuition more affordable. But Trump's budget proposed uh reducing PEL grants by about
20%. And under the trillion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy that the Republicans passed this past summer, fewer students are going to have access to PEL grants at all. So this means that lower income students in my district will lose out on funding that would have helped them to pay for college. or it means that colleges have to find new
innovative ways to navigate new loopholes that are created to make things harder for them. This bill is going to devastate higher education access and affordability. Uh especially for the most vulnerable student. It slashes loan limits. It forces students to take in even higher interest rate debts that they won't be able to pay
back. So, no, not letting us take out loans isn't going to help. The the the interest rates will simply be higher because they will usually be private uh loan sharks. uh it guts consumer protections when for-profit colleges defrauds them and we can't forget how many students rely on SNAP and Medicaid.
What will happen to them when those cuts go into effect? And very quickly, Dr. Delpalar, your organization at first referred to this bill as the great American heights. Can you describe how the policies in this bill are moving us even further away from affordability? >> I mean, I would argue that uh many of
the provisions in this bill actually make it more less affordable for students to attend higher education. We already have an access issue in this country. less students are going to college today than they were in 2019. And I expect for us to continue to see that move as students uh decide to take a different path that doesn't involve
higher education. We know that 65% of the jobs in this country are going to require higher education. If we're not preparing students uh in terms of providing them access and what we're doing is we're we're not preparing the workforce for the jobs that are being created in effectively in this country. >> Thank you. And I would simply argue and
end by saying that the the goal for college affordability is not to push all poor kids into one lane and all wealthy kids into another. We have better options here. I say we can join so many other countries in the world who value educating all of our young people uh and
actually invest in them. I yield back. >> I thank the gentle lady. Now I recognize the uh great member from Indiana, Mr. Mesmer. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. O Yinda uh many institutions have struggled to innovate due to governance
challenges and risk averse models. You describe your governing board as both a guardrail and a catalyst for innovation. What specific governor's policies have most helped you move quickly while still maintaining accountability to students, accredititors, and the public? >> Uh thank you. Yeah, look, uh, our board
of trustees is comprised of the most innovative and experienced educators at the two-year college level and four-year college level in our country. Dr. Eduardo Padron, for example, was president of Miami Dade College uh, for about 33 years and is currently president of ameritus. When I met with
him and pitched him on the idea of joining our board of trustees, he said, "I'll join on one condition, which is that you work quickly. I'm impatient and I'm old and I want to see this problem solved in my lifetime. That's what he told me. And so we've worked really hard to bring folks like him around who are
going to push us, but they also govern us. And so what they do is they institute guard rails that make sure that we continue um to have great outcomes for students in terms of graduation rates and retention rates as we grow. Why? Well, because as one person uh a very successful person once
advised me, design your organization so that an idiot could run it because one day one will. And so we do everything we can to make sure we have the governance structures in place so that long after I'm gone, uh we still have the best outcomes for students as we grow. >> Uh following up on that, what what lessons can traditional institutions
learn from campuses governance model? I think uh number one is innovation and actually specifically picking numbers like uh you would in a normal Silicon Valley startup like what what is your graduation rate and actively making sure that every quarter you're making a
little bit of progress towards it is ultimately the only way to get these issues under wraps we have to innovate our way out of these problems and it takes technology it takes people it takes a com a combination of both and so the campus model is high-tech but also hight touch and I think that's why it's
Thank you. And uh campus and some other the other community colleges uh seem to be embracing alternative education models. Are traditional large state universities readily accepting class credits from students that are trying to transfer uh you know from from campus.
>> Some are and it's really been phenomenal. We work with in your state Butler University. We work with uh Arizona State University. Work with University of North Texas, University of Central Florida. if you come to campus uh and you graduate, you get to transfer into those schools with not only guaranteed credit transfer but also
guaranteed admissions. Unfortunately, however, that's not how it works in all universities across the country. And we need actually, I think this is one thing this committee could work on to make sure that guaranteed credit transfer works. Calculus one hasn't changed since
Sir Isaac Newton discovered calculus. And yet, college A says college B's calculus ain't the same as what we're offering. It's not true. What actually ends up happening is that students who start off at a community college who do transfer into and graduate from a four-year are going to graduate with about 130% of the credits they needed
for the degree. That's wasted taxpayer dollars making students take the same class over. In my opinion, that's what DOE should have started focusing on. >> Uh Dr. Nape, are you seeing acce acceptance from from uh your model to into fouryear institutions traditional
brick and mortars? >> Yes. So it uh with with Maine, it's a partnership between all of our community colleges and universities and beyond AI, you know, in other degree programs. There is a lot of acceptance across the board for for that transfer aspect. Of
course, we want to prepare our learners to go into the job market, but we want to ensure they have opportunity for further education, research endeavors, and much more. So in Mississippi, yes, we have a great uh collaboration amongst everyone. >> Excellent. Uh in your testimony you highlight collaboration with employers
across manufacturing, IT, logistics and other key sectors. Uh based on that expertise or that experience, what approaches have proven most effective in facilitating strong, durable industry partnerships and institutions can rely on as they modernize programs and expand
more workforce aligned training. >> I think a lot has already been said up until this point with the key thing being communication. we we can't get anything done if we don't understand the problem at hand from the workforce employer side and understanding what academia can do to meet that skills gap
component. So that that's been the biggest um opportunity for us but it can also be the biggest challenge at times. So as long as we have that consistent uh continuous feedback loop that's occurring whether that's monthtomonth, semester to semester, academic year and beyond, we can continue advancing and
adapting these programs to ensure we meet critical needs in the state and in the nation. >> Yeah. And technology is changing rapidly. So it's it's a never changing landscape. So thank you. I'll give yield back the rest of my time. >> I thank the gentleman. Now I want to
recognize the gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Courtney. >> Uh thank you uh Mr. Chairman and thank you to all the witnesses uh for your testimony today. Um it strikes me as a little odd that when we're having a hearing about higher education and innovation at exactly the same time in
which um research uh programs and and um grants are being gutted uh by this administration. and I represent um Eastern Connecticut, which is the home of the University of Connecticut, which is uh again, I think an outstanding uh research university. Uh within really
days of the inauguration, um they were getting um notices that grants that had already been u obligated were being cancelled. And we're talking about work that was being done on things like autism, obesity, early childhood education. They have a school of
education there which has been doing, you know, great work for for for many years. And uh Dr. Pard, your testimony, I mean, you sort of alluded um to the fact that the compact um initiative that the administration um I guess is putting out there is going to
be um you know, again really tying uh research to an agenda u that has really actually nothing to do with the actual content of the research um that universities have been engaged in. And uh maybe you could just talk about that
a little bit in terms of you know what um colleges and universities are doing not just for higher education but our whole economy and our health care systems um and putting us really at the forefront internationally uh in terms of
um you know life- saving and um you know uh huge advances in technology um that again are being threatened by an approach that is tying this work um to to politics and and really not to just
um you know learning and um in science. >> I think we're doing a a tremendous disservice to innovation by limiting what could be studied uh by cancelling research grants by cancelling uh uh research that was already underway in this country. I think it has a
significant impact. We know that colleges in most towns are the the are significant economic drivers. Uh they employ in many places the most people. I'm originally lived in Pennsylvania. Uh the the Penn State University system was one of the largest employers in the
state. And so by cutting re uh resources to institution, by cutting research at institution, you're effectively ending a lot of the innovation that happens in this country around technology, around medical research, around education, around so many areas that are critical to advancing uh e economic opportunity
in this country and e and and well-being to be uh really frank with you. And so we by cutting those opportunity I think we're having we're going to have significant and detrimental effect to uh to to not only capital in this country but also to economic mobility. >> So um the latest tally that we had back
in May from Yukon was about $32 million have been cancelled and and we and there has been um more since then. to your point about employment. Um, one of the sort of spillover effects of these cancellations was that graduate students who had been lined up uh, you know,
during breaks and summer um, the summer break in terms of being employed as part of the the work that these grants entail, which is, you know, something that has been part of university um, work for decades and decades. uh basically uh were being laid off um and
really left also in terms of just their own academic um you know plan sort of stranded uh because of um this just indiscriminate sledgehammer that's being taken uh by uh agencies and departments uh of this administration. It's
affecting also people. Uh there's a woman who came into my office from Old Line, Connecticut, who's stage four lung cancer, non-smoker, in her 50s, had been working again with a university-based um treatment program up in Boston. Uh you know, doing well. Uh the plan was to
have her begin mRNA uh trials, uh which again is something that's pretty exciting in terms of cancer, fighting cancer. Uh and that was canceled obviously because of a political agenda at the Department of Health and Human Services. So uh again yes innovation's
good um but I think sometimes you know focusing a little bit on AI sort of ways that to help with you know individual issues is a good thing too but you know the bigger picture right now is that we're we're watching an administration destroy university-based
innovation through um systems of grants that again have I think you know really um put us at the forefront internationally as said and again I'll give you the my final >> I'll just say we are choking off the talent pipeline in this country there are programs Michigan State University
for example is not admitting any graduate or doctoral students in certain programs because there isn't any funding available to fund those students and so we are effectively um choking the the talent pipeline in this country. >> What a tragedy. I yield back.
>> I thank the gentleman and I recognize the gentleman who drove the farthest to the committee hearing today. The gentleman from Guam, Mr. Mouland, >> didn't want to miss this exciting hearing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Really appreciate it. Uh, and it is exciting
for me. I I just recall you as you're sharing their stories for these students that are now experiencing this. I recall when I used to uh go in and buy used textbooks at the book at the library uh at the university and the best used textbook you would get is the one that is highlighted and it has notes in it
from the previous students because it's highlighting the questions for the instructor because they go over the same test every year and every year and I got an A in that class. But but it it's it's just really exciting how how we've been
able to take this so far and and that that used textbook was that was the only AI I had then but now uh this is a a great time and and you be able to reduce the costs as well and I had to pay I had a part-time job. Uh my parents gave what
they could until finally the GI Bill really made it happen for me. Uh but then after a four-year degree uh I had no no real work with the with my degree and ended up working in a restaurant. Fortunately, the army picked me up and I
got active duty. So I'm happy for that. But I want to thank this p panel for your uh having your innovative uh classrooms. And my first question is for uh Dr. up here and as director of Maine, you partner directly with campuses to
help them embed AI competence across both academic degree pathways and short-term workforce programs. Can you talk about how you help them integrate these skills and which strategies have proven most effective in helping
colleges modernize their curricula while remaining financially stable? Thank you for the question and partly this goes back into um we have two routes like a shared curriculum that's pretty general and broad that anybody can take and deploy and what that does
is reduce duplication. It also gives maybe some of the smaller institutions higher quality content and then positions the larger institutions to um you know streamline a process there. They don't they don't have to start from scratch essentially. So on that pathway, it's pretty general. And then what they
can do, whether that's an institutional or instructor standpoint, is pick that curriculum apart, pick and choose aspects they want to embed into their current teaching. So again, if if I'm teaching an English composition course, maybe I I don't need to understand the development of AI, but I need to
understand the ethical and responsible usage of it, and maybe the prompting side, how to write, and things of that nature. So, so there are different um flexible pathways from both an institutional standpoint and then instructor by instructor. And we see that while all of these institutions work together under the main umbrella,
they all have autonomy to approach it in the way that best fits them at this time. >> Uh thank you. And Mr. Or or thank you. Just take that a little slower. Uh the PEL grant has long been
cornerstone of access for needy students, but the program now faces a significant budgetary shortfall. We also own taxpayers assurance that these dollars follow value, not failure. Given your decision to keep tuition below the maximum PEL award so students can attend
debt-free, how should we think about PEL's structure in an era of physical pressure if we want to encourage more low tuition debt-free models like yours? >> It's a great question and look, I think the Pell Grant is one of the most important things that groups like this
have ever done in our country. In fact, if you walk around our office in New York and our headquarters, we have lots of portraits just like this of Senator Pal. It's a little bit weird, but um it's a great opportunity for us to always talk about the great work uh that that groups like this can do. Um I think there's a simple uh solution, which is
that yes, PEL uh has about a $4 billion shortfall uh at current rates. And I think that we can probably figure out how to spend less PEL at institutions where it has almost no impact. We have more than $5 billion of PEL going to institutions like the University of Southern California. No offense to
anyone who who's uh that's their alma moater where the PEL grant represents less than 4% of the annual tuition. PEL is not supposed to be used that way. It's supposed to be the difference maker. It's supposed to be used at community colleges at instate state universities where without the PEL grant students would actually not be going to
college at all. Instead of making PEL a 5% off, let's make it a 50 or in the case of campus 100% off the cost of attendance. >> Thank you. For my last question, Dr. uh docking. As you might know, the University of Guam has been leading the
way as a four-year accredited institution in the Western Pacific, which is a point of pride for us in Guam. But one of the challenges that that can bring this uh limited resource for expanding programs. Can can you
please discuss how the hybrid model you describe can enhance choice for students where academic options might otherwise be limited? Yes sir. Um places like Guam uh are perfectly suited for uh the shared
classes that we offer. And if your institutions were to to join the consortium of what currently is 140 colleges and universities throughout the country, give you access to these classes and you wouldn't be limited by uh borders or anything else uh for the
majors that we currently offer. >> Thank you. Thank you to the panel. I just want to add one final thing. Um, my colleague recommended that our curriculum also include capitalism. I also want to add patriotism too. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
>> I thank the gentleman and I recognize another former teacher, the representative from New York, Mr. Manion. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for uh being here today and I appreciate the opportunity to discuss innovations happening in higher
education and how we can improve college affordability and student success in central New York and the Mohawk Valley. Our community colleges, universities, uh private and public and our K12 institutions are leaders when it comes to embracing new ways of learning and
preparing students for the future workforce. It's also a great part of our history as Syracuse University and the State University of New York environmental science and forestry had a relationship back in 1911 that uh partnership was established. So, we
continue to build on our tradition of growing uh technology uh programs in the area and work with our local employers in the K12 public and private higher ed space to make sure that we're meeting
the needs of those workforce demands in our higher ed institutions and our K12 institutions are um leaders in providing that skilled workforce. Um
for example um there are dual dual enrollment and direct admissions programs that have been streamlined. These educational pathways are expanding opportunities for our students and formal uh articulation agreements between colleges are simplifying the
transfer process by ensuring students can keep all of the credits that they've earned. These innovative models should be scaled up to address national challenges. I'm particularly concerned about programs uh as they relate to the transfer process. Many students do lose
uh far too many credits and can find themselves functionally starting over, putting uh years of work to waste. In fact, although 80% of community college students intend to transfer to a four-year college, only one-third end up transferring within six years, and only
13% ultimately earn a four-year degree within six years. So in that vein related to transfer of credit, I'll start with Dr. Dell Polar. Um you've done a lot to analyze the challenges of the transfer process and offered recommendations for improvement. Can you
briefly explain explain what the barriers community college students face as they navigate the transfer system? >> I mean I think that the transferability of credit is the largest obstacle that students face number one. Number two is navigating a very complex admission system that uh oftent times uh
discourages students from transferring onto an institution. You know some of the GAO did a study years ago found that students transfer students on average lose around 52% of their credit. This is one of the places where I think AI can provide uh significant support and doing that type of course analysis and
allowing for you know if 90% of the course matches and only 10% doesn't match then you have that pairing with the human who can actually look at those differences in curriculum and so I do think that the transferability of credit knowing what transfers and having easy pathways is the biggest obstacle that
transfer students face. >> Uh Mr. Royende, you had mentioned uh the transfer process a few times in your comments. Do you have anything to add? >> Uh well, an amen would be a good start. Um yeah, look, right now it makes no sense. College A has already done an
articulation agreement with college B to say our calculus one is equivalent. College B also already has a guaranteed uh transfer with college C. But then if a student from college C tries to go to college A, they say we don't accept it. It's not equivalent. This is literally
violating uh the sort of transitive property of basic law and mathematics. It drives me insane. And if this group can do something to solve it, I think we'd be in much better shape. >> Right. So, it sounds like you're encouraging us to establish legislation uh that might protect the students or
protect the appeals process and if I hear correctly also uh utilizing AI potentially to do so. That being said, if we're talking about legislation or AI, in your opinion, anyone can answer what should be the overarching
government body that would establish which AI programs are uh are going to do that exact analysis to make sure these transfer credits occur and that that legislation should be shrined under which federal department? I
>> I think the key is just transparency. The data already exists. Every university knows the uh other universities that they've articulated with. I think the same way we have iPads data for reporting demographics and things like that. If we had a centralized resource for reporting articulation agreements and
equivalencies, then we can get around this problem very easily. >> Thank you so much all the witnesses. I appreciate it. I will say that educators understand education best and therefore I will continue to stand up to not dissolve the Department of Education.
Thank you. I yield back. I thank the gentleman. I recognize now the doctor from Missouri, Mr. Ander. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the witnesses for being here. It is clear that college costs have
skyrocketed in recent years. Since 2015, the average tuition at a private 4-year university has increased from $35,500 to $51,300. A staggering 30 a 44% jump. Likewise,
average tuition at instate um instate for four-year universities uh in the public sector has risen from $9,800 to $12,700 since 2015. Even more concerning, the return on
investment of a four-year college degree has not kept pace with rising tuition. In fact, it has substantially declined. One recent analysis found that more than a 100 programs at colleges with acceptance rates below 20%, so our most
competitive colleges have a negative return on investment. Students in these programs, which are often in arts and humanities, may be better off financially if they had not attended college at all. Another study uncovered uh uncovered that 16% of high
school graduates and 28% of associates degree holders earn more than the median worker with a bachelor's degree. So clearly expanding federal student loans has not curbed college uh soaring college costs. If anything, it has exacerbated them. As more students rely
on federal aid, institutions are investing more resources in complying with federal regulations rather than improving classroom instruction and those with higher administrative costs are ultimately passed on to students and families. And because institutions know
that the federal government will cover this tuition, they face strong incentives to raise prices faster than inflation. More government intrusion in higher education has not lowered college costs. However, private sector innovation can lower costs. Higher new
higher education models are emerging that maintain instructional quality while reducing administrative overhead. Adrian College is one of these institutions embracing innovation. Uh Dr. docking. In your testimony, you described how Adrianne's partnership
with RISE has enabled the school to launch 38 new majors, um, minors, and certificate programs without hiring a single new professor. According to your testimony, they accomplished this by supplementing onampus courses with
shared online resources. And 84% of students reported being equally or more satisfied with their shared online courses than with traditional onampus um onampus classes. That is encouraging and good to hear. Um I'm curious about the
other, you know, 16% who don't who don't necessarily report the same and 86 84 is overwhelming. What further improvements do you think can be made to this model and what what what can we do to cut the regulatory uh red tape um and uh improve
the model even further? >> Uh thank you Mr. Ander. Yes. I think that if you uh look at the reason why students go to college these days, 90% of them say that it's because they want to get a better job. They want to make a better salary. They want to be able to provide for their families and live in
safer neighborhoods and ultimately send their own kids uh to college. >> Yes. >> Um I think that means that all of us in higher ed need to have a closer relationship with um the business community, the nonprofit community to say, "What do you want students to know
getting off the commencement stage? what can we do as colleges to prepare them to not have to do essentially a two-year internship to learn about whatever industry they're going into. So, whatever the federal government can do to encourage those uh partnerships, I think will uh be very very helpful to
students and families. >> And um you testified, Dr. Docking, that your model's been adopted by more than 30 colleges nationwide with over 10,000 students enrolled in the College of the Future network. Uh, do you believe this collaborative model could scale further
and what challenges would you anticip anticipate based on your experience so far? >> I do, Congressman. And I think because it's simply gotten so expensive for all colleges to to operate that you will see colleges really being forced to get into a more collaborative model. And um I
think that's a good thing. I think you know when when we sit before Congress and we say we want you know increases in PEL and SEOG and work study I mean that's important. We all, you know, like additional monies, but I think the federal government probably wants is saying, you know, what are you doing colleges to hold down costs and I think
this is the biggest initiative uh of its sort in in in several years to truly hold down costs. >> Well, thank you so much for your testimony. Again, thank you for all all you for being here. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. I recognize my
friend from California, Mr. Dier. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My friend from Michigan. Um, thank you to the witnesses for being here. This reminds me a little deja vu all over again, Yogi Bear and arguments in this committee some years
ago about forprofit colleges and whether they were developing efficiencies overall and preparing young Americans for critical thinking and actually going into the workforce and being productive. Uh, Dr. Dr. Dell Peller in that regard
as a member from the Bay Area who has had conversations with um skeptical investors who invested in technology 20 years ago and did quite well but now are similarly skeptical um about AI being
oversold by investment community. I just finished a wonderful book on the subject matter the AI con. So uh 85 86% of teachers and stu students according to the center for democracy and technology uh used AI in 2425 and a similar amount
were skeptical about the practical application and the value both from teachers and from students uh and their experience. So good ideas can be bad just like old ideas. What kind of guard rails do we have to thoughtfully look at? Uh and I'm not against using um
technology and I'm my district surrounds the University of California and is in between three um national laboratories. So using technology but it's how we apply it and make sure it's done in such a way that there's a benefit that is measurable um that's sometime well it's
frequently difficult to measure. How do you prepare young people to go out and have successful lives? >> Yeah. You know, I'd say that one of my concerns especially around AI is is bias. The the presence of bias and who it had biases in these system. There was
a study recently that showed that uh a a person of color who with a an ethnic sounding name actually when they were asked a question around selling a bike actually were advised on to to um pay a lower price or a higher price than a
person with a non-ethnic sounding name. And so that bias exists in AI. We know that if you have bad data that goes in, bad data comes out. And so I would say one, we have to protect bias. Two, I think data protection is critical. We continue to look for a silver bullet. Uh not only in education, but in society at
large. Um and I would argue that in in education, higher education, we talked about the internet being an innovator. We talked about MOOs being an innovator. We talked about tablets being an innovator. And still we use these things as props. And so I would I would say that you know while uh while I think we
need to continue to think about the guardrails uh especially around AI um we need to protect student and we need to we need uh we need to ensure that we're protecting against bias. Uh the most disruption we saw in education and higher ed was uh during the pandemic and
so uh when we're forced to change oftent time is when we see change in higher education. So on the full student experience, spending a lot of time um looking at that particularly for disadvantaged communities and being in a state where the CSU system, the
community college system, and the UC system work really well and efficiently, particularly community colleges where transfer students uh regularly in my district can get their AA and have a a pathway to a UC or a CSU. But we've been spending more and more time for a
variety of reasons uh technology foremost amongst them um on behavioral health support for the students. So speak to that a little bit. All this disassociation in technology we now know how that has hurt younger people and cognitive development but also college
age students. So getting this right is first do no harm. Let's make sure that we're not inhibiting innovation, but also that it's not uh we're not investing in it in such a way that there's so much damage we have to go back and repair that damage generationally. >> And we shouldn't be innovating at the
expense of students or at the expense of anyone to be to be perfectly frank with you. And so I do think as we look at the challenges especially post pandemic uh students are struggling with the mental health uh struggling with access to mental health services. And so I do think we have to be thinking about how
we provide those services that not only provide students with their basic needs, but also those needs that allow them to thrive. And so as we think about how we're supporting students, we have to think not only about if we're providing them access to the internet or to the most innovative curriculum, but also if
we're providing them access um to those other services that are critical for student for student supports. So on one level as a former small business owner reducing cost I get the efficiency of having uh teleasses and using the scale but you've got to figure the whole cost
um analytically. So if it's beneficial for bringing down the cost but if there are societal costs how do we analyze that and prepare ourselves for that and be at the least aware of it and with that I'll yield back. >> I thank the gentleman. And now I recognize the good representative from
Wisconsin, Mr. Grothman. >> First of all, I'd like to respond to what something was said from the other side of the aisle about a half hour ago. Um there was a strong implication that uh it was superior to get ahead that you ought to be involved in a
4-year university. And I don't think that's true even remotely. Um I don't think it's true financially. Um, not that I'd suggest everybody drive truck for Walmart, but I pointed out that one of those Walmart truck drivers live better. You see on the back, I
guess they're making about 140 grand a year, which I'm sure is more than most college graduates make. I think since I've been a politician, uh, I um, one of the things I do is I ask kids at Eagle Scout Awards what they're
going to do in the future. And I've noticed we've gone from maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago was all I'm from the Midwest. I'm going to go to Northwestern. I'm going to go to Madison. Now more and more are going to tech school. More and more are going to trade school, which means they're
catching on. But I'm still afraid when people say things like uh the congresswoman from the other side of the aisle said that you're leading kids to believe that college is the answer, a four-year college. It's not the answer.
Um, now next question I have, I'm not sure we're going to give this to is it seems to me over time, uh, tuition rates go up and it seems to me also the number of non-eing personnel in colleges has been going up somewhat dramatically the
last 30 years, which kind of concerns me because I don't know what you're getting for these people. Does someone want to comment on the apparent increase in number of uh uh employees who do things other than teach
on campuses? >> I'm happy to start. I served as deputy secretary of higher education for the state of Pennsylvania. Um we had 42 unfunded mandated reports that that the the state senate and congress demanded every year that no one ever looked at.
When you have reports that no one looks at, when you require data reporting that no one looks at, then you're creating a position for somebody um that doesn't support teaching and learning. >> Why Why don't you get us uh after we leave here a list of reports that you
feel are unnecessary? >> This was for the state of Pennsylvania, not federal reports. So, this report, >> not our fault. Okay. But there are, for example, the Trump administration for the the the most recent requests for admissions data, uh there's been some estimates that show that it's going to
take 200 hours to collect that seven years of admissions reporting data for institutions. Those are those are >> what was the purpose of the reports? >> Um to effectively have a better sense of who's getting admission and how colleges are determining who gets admitted uh to
their institutions. >> I'll just jump in here. Look, the reality is that we have to get much more much more efficient at actually running these administrative processes. Things like data gathering should be fully automated if institutions have modern
systems. And that's possible today. >> Exactly. You would figure in gathering paperwork, you'd have a lot less people working there than were working there 30 years ago >> if you've got the modern systems. That's right. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Um, couple of you are running uh colleges that do a lot of
online teaching. Percentage-wise, how much does your TU And by the way, I'm from Wisconsin. I know in Wisconsin for a while they were charging more for online classes than inerson classes. I never got a good answer for that. But, uh, how much lower do you think you can
cut tuition if you go online compared to everybody's got to show up? Well, our goal at Adrian College, and we're a very traditional private liberal arts institution founded in 1859, but as we look at um the future of
higher ed, we uh absolutely believe it's hybrid that students that even go to traditional schools will be taking some of their courses online. It is less expensive for uh for us to do that by a substantial amount. I said earlier that it cost $500,000 to start a new major.
In the traditional system with this new um shared system that we have, it's about $15,000. As we look out, we hope to drop tuition 20 to 30% over the next several years because of the tremendous efficiency that's brought to the system when our
schools work together. >> Okay. Anybody else want to take a swing at that one? >> Well, yeah. Look, we've already done it. We've demonstrated that we can keep tuition priced below max PEL by doing live synchronous online. If you do do asynchronous, I think you're going to
see as uh Dr. Polar said, poor results as we saw with some of the mukes. But when you focus on synchronous, people can still have that human connectivity that is so important when you want young people to stay engaged. >> Okay. People on the other side also commented on how they do things in Europe. As the great Ronald Reagan said,
we didn't found this country to do what Europe did. Right. Okay. Thank you. We're out of time here. I thank the gentlemen. Seeing no other members uh at the dis right now than than the ones that have
already spoken, um we've come to the end of our questioning of witnesses. And may I quickly state you've been an excellent panel. Thank you. Excellent panel to start start back in with this committee and our deliberations.
So now I turned over to the ranking member uh Miss Adams. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, and uh thank you uh to our witnesses and I certainly support that statement. They've been a great panel. Um uh today's discussion has made one thing abundantly clear.
Innovation in higher education is only meaningful when it improves student success, expands opportunity, and promotes equity. We all agree that technology, new learning models, and student centered practices can transform higher education. However, as we've
heard, innovation without accountability, evidence, and a focus on outcomes is not progress. It's a step backward. A and that that's precisely the direction the Trump administration and my Republican colleagues have have taken us. Their big ugly law cuts
essential financial aid options pushes families into predatory private loans and makes it easier for bad actors in the forprofit sector to exploit students. The efforts to dismantle the Department of Education, especially
hollowing out the Institute of Education Sciences have left left us without the basic research and data needed to understand what works. We cannot innovate respons responsibly if we are operating in the dark. We've
demonstrated that that when we ground the innovation in evidence, we can help students not only increase enrollment, but but also complete their degrees and find rewarding work. Programs like the post-secary student success grants show
what real student centered innovation looks like. innov initiatives that improve uh advising, expand tutoring, support basic needs, and ensure students stay on track. Removing federal funds
for these programs is not just shortsighted. It puts us on the back foot on on the world stage. And so as we confront rapid changes in technology and the growing presence of AI in classrooms and workplaces, we must redouble our
efforts on evidence-based solutions that close gaps rather than widen them. Our charge is simple. Ensure every student, no matter who they are or where they come from, has a fair shot at a high
quality degree and the brighter future that it provides. Thank you again, Mr. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. >> I thank the gentle lady. It pleases me to uh have a hearing where
my notepad is filled up um and encouragement. Um I appreciated several comments today. No silver b silver bullet. how true that is, especially if we're thinking of academia meeting the key
issue and that's educating a workforce. Uh and so when we are stuck in in a setting where uh the same old is the same old and that's what we're going to do, we will not achieve the success uh that I think
our commitment has today to be committed to. Um, I like the concept of a key issue for education that will sell education to the students of the present and the
future is no debt. I like that. That does sell. And I appreciate today that we have evidences of institutions who have not shied away from the one big beautiful bill and its efforts to give
encouragement to reduce the unnecessary costs to our students in education. Uh to make sure that that no debt is something available for more and who have been willing to say no excuses. We
will find a way through innovation, through pressure points in our own setting to find what works and makes an impact for the incoming students that says you will be educated. You'll receive better quality
at more efficiencies and reduce costs. And I think that's what we're looking towards. I'm also hesitant to state it, but sometimes I go where angels fear to tread and say, you know,
did we notice that the Department of Education was out of business for seven weeks? Did your institutions, Adrian College, and others stop working, stop addressing student needs, stop teaching?
Sadly, probably we're still filling out some of the paperwork that comes from the federal government, but I think the innovation is out there. I think when push comes to shove and we say have at it,
we will allow you that ability to to innovate, to move forward with credible oversight. Yes, especially where their federal dollars do come. incredible oversight, but not oversight that that opinions people down from moving forward
in the system. You know, I I I think attention to the customer is the key. And we've heard that today, the customer, that student, that parent, and and the teachers as well who sometimes are are hobbled by all that presses
against what they desire to do and have dreamed about doing when they were educated themselves. Student success is what we're looking for. I would quickly state that while we've looked at some of the
uh lack of clear immigration standards that are there, the world is still coming to the United States for higher education. This is where they want to be. And given the opportunity, they will come here.
And I believe that that is a motivator for us to make sure that we give uh the education community the opportunity to do what education needs to do in the real world. So I appreciate the fact
that uh today was on innovate innovation and that we see that there are tools to be used that'll produce efficiencies and ultimately ramp up success. And I also appreciate the term that was
put out today impatient and old. I am that I am impatient albeit older. I want to see uh our educational institution expand exponentially
because of now what we've seen take place and some of the disinterest that has come in in some of our students that have decided to go other directions that if we're willing to to to to compete will pull a lot of those back to
the good of this country. So again I want to say thank you to this panel for being here today. you've been very helpful to us and a lot of reams of information will have been taken down and the opportunities for other hearings in the future to move us forward.
Um, without objection, uh, there being no further business, the committee stands adjourned.