The Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions will please come to order. The Republican down DAS is returning from the White House, and so they'll be showing up shortly, but we will begin now. In the nearly 10 years, in in the next 10 years, the US is predicted to face a deficit of nearly six million workers.
Americans are retiring at unprecedented rates and we don't have enough people to replace them. And I talked to my staff about this and I said, you know, on the one hand, we see AI replacing workers and yet here we say we don't have enough
people for the jobs and and and I guess the way I understand it is that AI does not swing a hammer and it is not in a craft. and and there's some other things that we're going to try to address today that are a little bit at this point
beyond the reach of AI. And so I think this is a very good pertinent panel for the health, education, labor, and pensions committee in medicine. I'm a physician. I know firsthand that this shortage is impacting the health care sector. There are there's an aging
population except for this panel, except for us, and there's more patients to treat and fewer to treat them. So, we need to modernize and expand the apprenticeship model, connecting workers with the skills needed for the future. Now, according to the Department of Labor, this is real money. Apprentices
earn a starting salary of $80,000 per year, well above the median individual income. Republicans and Democrats on this committee strongly support apprenticeships. That's bipartisan, proworker, pro business, pro- family. By the way, President Trump and Secretary
Chavez Dimemer understand the power of apprenticeship in strengthening our economy, empowering workers, and President Trump set out a bold vision, create 1 million new active apprenticeships. In August, the departments of education, labor, and
commerce published a roadmap outlining how to accomplish this. And as the health chair, I am working closely with President Trump and his administration to expand apprenticeship opportunities. Now, American workers and employers want to participate in apprenticeships, but
the current system so so workers and employers want to do this, but the current system is burdensome. There's inconsistent state laws which confuse workers and businesses alike. So, if we're going to increase this number of apprenticeships, we must simplify the registration process, making it faster
and easier for employers to offer. The federal government, state government, and private industry should work together, come up with an innovative approach to scale apprenticeships beyond the trades to reach new industries like advanced technology. Now, employees and employers need more input into the
design of apprenticeships, lowering the cost, increasing flexibility to choose the standards that work best, and they should be guided by those on the ground, not a government bureaucrat. By implementing common sense reforms, we can achieve President Trump's goal of
strengthen the American economy and giving more Americans a path to the American dream. I thank our witness for being here. I look forward to discussing your ideas. Senator Sanders is not here. And so, uh, Senator Baldwin or anyone
else, are you subbing for him? >> I mean, if you >> I'm sorry. introduce. >> So, we will um what I'll do is introduce the witnesses. When Senator Sanders comes, we shall allow him to make his opening statement like um Okay,
>> we're joined and so sir, I'll introduce each of you as you are make your statement and if you could keep your statement to five minutes. Okay. We're joined today by Josh Laney, vice president of apprenticeship and work embedded learning at the competencybased education network, CBEN. Mr. Laney
previously led the Alabama office of apprenticeship where he expanded apprenticeship to fields like nursing and launched an interactive dashboard for prospective apprentices to explore opportunities. I know coach Tuberville is sorry that he's at the White House and not here because he would love to
introduce a fellow War Eagle, but he's a graduate of Auburn University and Troy University. I look forward to hearing from you today, sir. Thank you for joining. >> Morning. Thank you, Chair Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, uh, when he arrives. And members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear
today. It is a privilege to provide testimony on behalf of the competency based education network or as we say, CBIN, and to share insights from my experience leading apprentichip expansion at the state and national level. Uh, my name is Josh Laney. I'm a fourth generation Alabama cattle farmer from a family of public school
educators. Until recently, I served for six years as the inaugural director of the Alabama Office of Apprenticeship under Governor K. Ivy. Alabama has been first in more than just the alphabet when it comes to apprenticeship. In a few short years, we went from about six 6% female participation to well over
20%. An upcoming report from New America finds that Alabama has more degree bearing apprenticeships than any other state. We have the first statewide nursing apprenticeships. We have the first master's degree apprenticeships. Alabama achieved all of these things and many other successes because of a commitment to an employer-driven model
of development. In 2023, I attended a CB exchange conference uh stepping in for my friend and colleague Nick Moore. I spoke about Alabama's collaboration with CBN at that time on our five-part test for in- demand occupations and our work on the Alabama talent triad. It took me a couple of days of listening to realize
that these were not typical higher ed people. They were describing a new way of doing higher education that aligned perfectly with the principles of apprenticeship. They understood that colleges must view apprentices as employees who are coming to them for professional development and not just work uh not just students for whom they
are seeking occasional work experience. When I recognized this, it was like the old Reese's commercial. They had gotten chocolate in my peanut butter and I got peanut butter in their chocolate. For more than a decade, CBEN has led a national movement to transform education through competency based learning. Our mission is to center learning on what
people know and can do, connect education to workforce needs, and ensure that systems work for both learners and employers. Cookie cutter degrees do not serve students, and cookie cutter apprenticeships do not serve employers. If we're serious about reaching that million apprentice goal, I estimate
we'll need about 45,000 more employers. And that will only be possible if we can build programs that work for both modern modern learners and modern employers. President Reagan wisely said, "The best social program is a job." Unfortunately, current reports show that the country is still below the prepandemic labor market
participation rate of 63.3%. Our national success depends on creating debt-free paths for entering the workforce. In my new role at CBN, I I lead the national project on apprentichip standards and interoperability, otherwise known as Paisy. Paisy is a national uh project
funded by the US Department of Labor and established through a cooperative agreement with the Alabama Commission on Higher Education. It's a state-led approach to modernize and scale apprenticeship by enhancing the quality and consistency of training, increasing the transparency into what apprentices know and can do, improving the
portability of the apprenticeship credential. In addition to supporting the work of Paisy, there are several legislative actions that I ask you to consider either as independent items or as part of a potential national apprenticeship act. First, some actions about scaling. We should move from our
current bifurcated system of oversight to fully state apprentichip agency system. We would find it odd if the US Department of Education were directly overseeing a high school. Why then should the US Department of Labor be directly engaged with apprenticeship sponsors on everything from pay scales
to printing completion certificates? Along with supporting state leadership, I ask you to implement a formula funding model for state apprentichip agencies, something akin to the Perkins model. It is impossible to build a cohesive system when the participants are whipped back and forth chasing grants just to keep
the lights on. We need your help also by to reduce bureaucracy by requiring the recalibration of apprentichip council authorities. Over the decades, some councils have taken on uh taken over program approval responsibilities that was originally designated by the DO to the state, not
to the council. In too many cases, those councils have become barriers, acting in ways that are sometimes self-s serving. I'd also ask you to support interoperability over reciprocity in any new legislation that is passed. Reciprocity is illdefined and its pursuit is a source of major frustration for employers. Interoperability is the
only way to move toward the goal of off-the-shelf registrations. A few ideas about quality. We must remove time gating and move to competency models. There's nothing magical about a minimum of 2,000 hours of on the job training. Time does not measure skill. Please don't look at your colleagues at this
point, but I bet every one of you could think of a person who's been on the job a long time and is still pretty bad at it. We all must we also must recognize that every job does not require an apprentichip, and that's okay to say. So any new national apprenticeship should use a high impact occupation assessment
to determine scalability and suitability. Lastly, not all apprenticeships represent the same depth and breadth of competency. Some are more like a diploma and some are more like a master's degree. This is why I ask you to direct the creation of a process to codify the levelization of apprenticeships.
In closing, I'll say apprentichips should be about the development and demonstration of competency because demonstrated skills and competencies are the indicators of talent that our employers need and our learners deserve. I thank you all for your invitation to speak this morning and I'd be pleased to take any questions you might have.
>> Coach, I introduced your witness, but would you like to say anything about your fellow War Eagle or uh condolences? [Laughter] I think Senator Kaine will introduce Dr.
McCain. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair, and it's my great pleasure to introduce to all Dr. Leticia McCain. Um, Leticia serves as the director of education for the apprentice school at Newport New Ship Building, which I think is almost the premier
apprenticeship program in the United States. and we've had a chance to work together since she came to that role in 2018, just in time to help the apprenticehip school celebrate its centennial. She's responsible for the overall leadership, vision, and
strategic direction for craft training, academic delivery, student services, accreditation, recruitment, athletics for this student body of 800 folks. Most of the students have previous college experience, at least some before they arrive. Many have previous military
service before they arrive. So, it's a very special group of students. Before arriving in Virginia, uh Dr. McCain had leadership positions at two different community colleges in Alabama. I guess that's kind of a theme today. She earned her doctoral degrees in urban higher education administration and education
administration from Jackson State University and Lacrosse University. And I'm so happy that she could come and share her expertise with the committee today. Thank you, Dr. McCain. >> Thank you. And roll tide. just for the Auburn fans here.
Um, Chairman Cassidy, thank you for the opportunity to um speak to the committee and um, Ranking Member Sanders just joined us. Thank you for being here. Um, thank you for the opportunity to testify on registered apprenticeships. Again, my
name is Leticia McCain. Um, I oversee the apprentice school for new producers ship building, a division of HII, formerly Huntington Les Industries. And what's so great about HI is that we spend over a hundred million annually on workforce development, training, and
education from preK to K12 colleges and universities. That's our investment into our community, into our company, and to our people. And so that's what's so amazing about HI. The apprentice school was founded in 1919. It's been around
over a 100 plus years. And what's so amazing about that is that we are actually um we not only have um articulation agreements with colleges and universities but we have our own faculty and staff. That faculty and
staff provide the related technical technical instruction as well as providing on the job training for our 800 plus students. Uh we are accredited by the state council of higher education in Virginia. uh week to award associates
in applied science degrees and we're also accredited by the council on occupational education and we are registered with Virginia Works um as well as department of labor for our certifications. We receive about 3,000
applications for 250 positions. So we are a really um apprenticeship program that people want to come to. And as a matter of fact, last I think two weeks ago, I had about 150 students and their parents at the apprentice school
wanting to learn about the program traveling from all over the country to find out about the apprenticeship program. And what's so amazing is that the students dragged their parents to be a part of it. And most parents had never heard of the apprentice school. And it's
like, I've saved money for I have a GI bill. I've saved money for college. and you want to go to the apprentice school, what what is it about the apprentice school? And so to be able to see that we have um our country is at a point in
workforce development where young people are making a decision that they want to go to the workforce. They want to be a part of apprentichip programs. They want to be able to um start their career at age 18. about 52% of our students come
in at age 18 and so they're walking into middle class jobs and when um chairman Cassidy said that they're making upwards of 80,000 yes we have a four and a fiveyear apprenticeship and when they complete they're making about 80,000
many of them are walking into leadership roles we also have uh a sister apprenticeship program and Pascagoula and it's amazing I grew up in Mobile Alabama. And so to be able to have so many of my relatives to call when I
first got this job saying, "Can you get me into the apprentice school at least school at Newport News? I'm not at less as well as students wanting to be a part of our program is pretty amazing. Um, I believe that we have um what what I call
best practices around apprenticeships as a company. So we have all sorts of businesses and people coming in to wanting to know how to grow their apprenticeship program, wanting to know what to do in the apprenticeship space. And so that that is what make us so
special. So in enhancing and expanding our nation's apprenticeship programs is vital to this effort. So to achieve this, I have a few recommendations. Um, I believe that we need to simplify the registration process for new
apprenticeship programs. We need to encourage the use of intermediaries to be able to connect small businesses with the apprenticeship pathways and for them to understand how to register their programs. Uh, we need to be able to connect them with community colleges to
provide that related technical instruction that is needed in apprenticeships. We need to provide occupational registration flexibility uh to get think outside of the box of just our traditional apprenticeships putting so many other things into apprenticeships like teacher education
did some years ago and I also think that we need to implement workforce pale grants that's going to be very important and it seems as if my time is up. Thank you and I look forward to answering any questions and being a part of this today. >> Thank you Dr. McCain. We'll now recognize Senator Sanders for an opening
statement. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I apologize for being late. I'll be very brief. Thank you to all of the panelists who are here. I think we all know, I can tell you that in Vermont, we have brought billions of dollars into the state to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. And you know what? We
don't have the skilled workers to actually do the work. In Vermont, and I suspect all over the country, you need a plumber, you need an electrician, hard to find them. Okay? So, I think the I and I'll tell you another story. I was in a a school in central Vermont and the kids were all smiling. It was a high
school. I was wondering what was going on. They were really happy. And it turns out they have a program there where for half of the day these kids are going into the real world. They're working. They're earning a good paycheck and then they come back to school and they feel better about the academics in school. It
was a win-win situation. So, I think there is bipartisan support for the understanding we need to go forward aggressively to give millions of young people the opportunity to get their hands dirty, to do important work, to make a good living, uh, and to do the work this country needs. So, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for holding
this hearing. >> Thank you, Senator Sanders. With that, I'll introduce Gardner Carrick, the chief program officer at the Manufacturing Institute. The manufacturing institute facilitates public private partnerships between employers, educational institutions, and workforce intermediaries. He is creating
a new national recognition program for industry-based credentials in manufacturing programs. Mr. Carrick is a graduate of Carnegie Melon University. Thank you, sir, for being here. Thank you, Chairman Cassie, Ranking Member Sanders, and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me
today to testify on behalf of the 240,000 companies and nearly 13 million men and women who make things in America. It is an honor to be able to share our insights and experience with you. I'm pleased to be joining four individuals who have done so much to make apprenticeship and registered an
apprenticeship successful in the US. Thank you for your efforts. My name is Gardner Carrick and I am here today representing the manufacturing institute, the 501c3 nonprofit workforce development and education affiliate of the National Association of Manufacturers. Through
our work alongside manufacturers and through our management of the Federation for Advanced Manufacturing Education, otherwise known as FAME, we bring decades of policy and field experience to this conversation. FAME is a multi-mployer apprenticeship model which
produces global best technicians. The program today is a network of nearly 500 companies operating in 43 locations across 16 states and employing more than 1100 current students and 2700 graduates. The outcomes include an 83%
on-time completion rate, a 95% full-time employment rate with sponsoring companies, and an 88% three-year retention rate for graduates. Those are the numbers. But let me tell you the story. Just this week, I saw a TV news
report from Louisville, Kentucky that interviewed a secondyear FAME student. He said, "Honestly, this program has changed my life. It was the exact same thing I heard two weeks earlier when I visited the new fame chapter in Fresno, California. A student told me, "Fame is
incredible. It has honestly changed my life." He's only two months into the program. Apprenticeship does in fact change lives. In Fame, we achieve these levels of success because the model is employerled, which means we teach the skills that employers actually demand.
Yes, that includes the technical skills to fix the machines and keep them running. But it also includes the critical thinking skills, the professional presentation skills, the show up every day on time skills. It also means creating a culture, a safety
culture where fame students believe that responsibility is mine and every accident is preventable. A lean culture where fame students eliminate nonvalue added work. And a problem-solving culture where fame students don't just fix the machine, they solve the problem.
All of this is done while teaching fame students the technical skills to excel in their jobs which keep American manufacturing running. This is what it means to be employerled in manufacturing. Today's hearing is about expanding registered apprenticeship. Across our
network, only about 15% of famed students are registered apprentices. Why? The simple answer is that most employers find registered apprenticeship nonvalue added work. FAM is successful with or without registered
apprenticeship. One company that's been with fame for 10 years told us recently that they have 39 out of the 42 students that went through fame still with the company. Another company tells us that their fame grads reach leadership positions much faster than other hires.
There are dozens if not hundreds of similar stories. Fame works for this country's manufacturers creating a pipeline of skilled technicians that they need to succeed. Fame works for the participants as well. Students start at a wage of around $20
an hour and complete the program around $30 an hour. And most of the FAME students are 20 or 21 years old when they graduate. The study's a little dated now, but Opportunity America and the Brookings Institution found that after five years after graduation, fame students were
earning just shy of $100,000. The program works for the 83% of students that graduate, launching them on a path to career and economic success. Registered apprentichip has an opportunity to play a significant role in the growth and scaling of the
apprenticeship model in manufacturing. But the program must be value added, which in manufacturing means it must be employerled, offer a sensible balance between benefits and costs, and support the infrastructure needs of our education partners to deliver the skills
and competencies that manufacturers are actually asking for. We know apprenticeship works. I see it every time I look at the fame outcomes. I hear it every time I listen to companies like HIi describe their success. and I feel it every time I visit famed students as
they describe how that's changed their lives. Thank you for inviting me to testify today, chairman, and I'm happy to answer any questions when the time comes. >> Thank you, sir. I now defer to Senator Sandrews to introduce his witnesses. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to introduce John Downey, general president
of the International Union of Operating Engineers. Mr. Downey joined the operating engineers in 2002 after organizing his fellow co-workers in Eastern Pennsylvania. He was elected president in January of this year and represents over 410,000 union workers. Mr. Downey, thanks for
being with us. >> Good morning, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and members of the help committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the International Union of Operating Engineers. My name is John Downey, and I'm the general president. As Mr.
Sanders says the IOE represents over 410,000 operating engineers in the United States and Canada and is one of this country's largest construction unions. Our union represents members who mainly work in the construction and maintenance sectors. We are heavy equipment operators, mechanics,
surveyors in the construction sector and in the stationary engineers. They maintain commercial buildings, hospitals, highrises, prochem facilities, power plants and more. Each year we invest over $180 million in training. With our signatory employers,
we sponsor 100 apprenticeship and training programs across 107 sites in the United States and Canada, including more than 80 registered apprenticeship programs in the United States. Our commitment to training is embodied in our $200 million international and
training education center, itch as we call it, located just outside of Houston, Texas. This state-of-the-art 200 acre world-class campus provides comprehensive learning environment with over 8,100 square ft of conference space, modern classrooms and labs, 12
plus crane pads, simulators, heavy equipment mechanic shop, welding bays, and a central utility plant for hands-on training. We currently have over 150 pieces of equipment for training purposes. Itch includes 227 private dorm
rooms, a fitness center, full dining facilities supporting multi-day and multi-week courses. Itch was built to supplement and strengthen our local union training centers and is pivotal in enhancing the skill development for a skilled, safe, and productive workforce
across various industries. At ITC, our members receive training on the newest equipment from leading manufacturers, ensuring they learn on the same machines and software used on today's jobs. Our industry partnerships with equipment manufacturers uh enable us to train on brand new
donated and discounted or leased equipment, ensuring cutting edge education from building offshore wind turbines in the Atlantic and highspeed rail in California to pipelines like the Willow project in Alaska and maintaining iconic sites like the Empire State Building power plants and data centers
nationwide. The International Union of Operating Engineers leads the way by training the workforce that builds, operates, and maintains America's critical infrastructure. In my testimony today, I would like to highlight the unique relationship between labor and management and our role of training America's skilled trades workforce and
also how policy and legislation that sparks job creation aids in the recruitment and development of apprentice apprentices. First, the IOE in collaboration with our signatory contractors has established a highly successful and self- sustaining apprenticeship and journeyman career
development system recognized nationwide. These privately funded programs are accountable and deliver measurable results without taxpayer burden. Our comprehensive training initiatives are designed to prepare the next generation of operating engineers, ensuring they remain proficient with the
latest technology and skills. Through coordination with our signatory partners, we can address the evolving needs of the construction industry as identified by our national training fund board, which is equally composed of labor and employers. This partnership enables us to offer specific ad hoc
training when necessary. This model trains to real careers so we don't flood the market with underprepared workers who finish training without a job. The IUE is doing our part to responsibly address the need for more skilled workers across the building, operation, and maintenance sectors that we
represent. Last year, itch delivered 167,000 training hours, and we are on pace this year to exceed that number. We have about 11,000 active apprentices, including 3,200 in their first year. Last year, 5134 members trained at ITC
at no cost to them. Their travels, meals, and lodging are all covered. Secondly, the benefit of a labor employer partnership is that both sides have a sense of future workforce needs. This allows us to recruit and train accordingly with the understanding that the apprentice will start their career
and have a job waiting for them at the end of their training. Our model works best when there is funding for projects to put our members to work. For instance, the Federal Highway Administration claims that $1 billion investment in roads directly results in 13,000 jobs. That number
doesn't include the other thousands of jobs associated with road building. If we want to attract and train more skilled trade apprentices and strengthen recruitment, history shows the best strategy is to fund those projects that create the very jobs we're training to do. This is why we don't overtrain. We
strategically train to build America's skilled workforce and ensure we have the right number of operating engineers to meet the construction industry's needs. Finally, I'd like you all to understand and appreciate that when we have a coordinated industry partnership, we can meet the challenges of training workers
to be the world's best skilled trades workforce. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you very much. U Mr. Chairman, I now like to introduce Brent Booker, general president, the Laborers International Union of North America. President Booker
is a third generation member of the Laborers Union. He has served as president since 2023 and represents over 530,000 union workers. President Booker, thanks very much for being with us. >> Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, members of the
committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is Brent Booker, and I am the general president of the Labors International Union of North America, where we represent 530,000 of the most productive, skilled, and safest workers in their industry. Thousands of Lyuna
members are currently at work on tunnel and energy projects like Gateway in New York and New Jersey and the Willow Pipeline in Alaska. They're working on power plants including renewable nuclear and fossil fuels, demolition jobs, water systems, wind and solar energy infrastructure, major manufacturing
projects like the Intel semiconductor factory in Ohio. Registered apprentichip is what allows our union to deliver the skilled laborers required to complete this essential construction for our country. Our training system is a product of labor management collaboration. Why would a contractor
invest time and money into training a labor if they can just jump to the competition who invested nothing? Our labor management model ensures this does not happen to contractors by providing collective funding for a large pool of skilled apprentices available as needed
to all employers who participate. This model has been the gold standard for decades. North America's building trades operate the largest registered apprentichip training system in the United States, adding an average of roughly 73,000 new apprentices each year since 2018 and investing over $2 billion
in training and education programs each year. The only entity that I'm aware of that trains more people than we do is the United States military. It's important to understand that this is a private sector solution to the workforce challenges of our industry. Our apprenticeship programs are funded through collectively bargained
agreements. Our members elect to have their money go into training programs instead of on their check. Even the curriculum and training schedules are developed in collaboration with contractors who have the best understanding of the skills required from their workforce and the specific project demands. This enables us to plan
trainings up to a year or more in advance of labor demand. Apprentices are only as good as the program they're in, and they're only as successful as the amount of work on which they can find employment. Quality registered apprenticeship in other words is fund fundamentally about supply and demand.
Let me speak about the demand side first. In the wake of historic public and private investment, the demand for apprentices has grown substantially in recent years. The number of active Lion apprentices increased 33% since 2021. We currently have 35,000 apprentices embarking on a career hoping to become a
journey worker laborer. But the future is looking more uncertain. In construction, nothing kills work more than chaos and uncertainty. Chaos like cancelling the Gateway project. Chaos like cancelling $ 24 billion of Department of Energy projects set to be built by skilled union apprentices.
Chaos like cancelling major energy projects that are already 80% complete. And chaos like cancelling major hydrogen hubs in Pennsylvania. When the industry has no confidence in the economy, banks don't lend to developers. Developers don't pursue projects. Contractors can't
win bids. And most importantly, our members don't go to work. And when our members don't work, they don't earn a paycheck. They lose contributions to their retirement funds, and they lose health insurance coverage. The bottom line is that it can become difficult for our members to provide for their families when this happens. In the last
few years, our members and employers have gone from an infrastructure construction boom to an unpredictable series of project shutdowns. This type of chaos hurts the registered apprentichip system. This industry needs predictability. They need a workforce they can rely on to ensure America's critical infrastructure gets built by
highly skilled and trained workers. The industry and the American economy need stability. Now, as for the supply side, the supply of safe and skilled workers is our business. It requires significant private investment, a commitment to excellence, and partnership with the business community. We applaud President
Trump's executive order calling for the goal of 1 million new active apprentices in the registered system. We agree that there's assistance needed for emerging industries that wish to build their workforce development model. And there also is efficiencies we can find in the registered apprenticeship system, but there aren't any shortcuts. There's no
need to reinvent the wheel when the current system is already growing. Maintaining the quality of the registered apprentichip system is of the highest priority of Lyuna. We believe strongly in a labor management model. We emphasize it's the investment of private dollars that drives real workforce development. Employers who are unwilling
to put skin in the game are already showing their hand. They want a free ride from taxpayers for their own private benefit. If we don't fill skill gaps in critical industries such as construction and energy, the US risk losing global competitiveness and leaving workers without viable pathways
to living wage jobs. There may be no greater American labor management success story than the vibrant registered apprentichip system built by the union trades over decades. Leyona remains committed to this successful approach and commits to helping other industries launch a model to advance
both their employers and the workers for whose benefit the registered apprenticeship was established. We don't need any more chaos and uncertainty. We need reliability and predictability. Thank you. I look forward to any questions you may have. >> Thank you, Mr. Booker. I will defer to
Senator or to Coach Tubberville. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, everybody. What a important hearing this is. Morning, Mr. Laney. How are you doing? >> Is your microphone on, coach? >> Pardon? >> Is your microphone on? >> Yes, sir, it is. Pull a little closer. >> Can you hear it now?
>> I I was getting too comfortable here. Um, Mr. Laney, your u apprenticeship program for nurses in Alabama is uniquely successful. Uh, and we're in national sec national
security risk now with our nurses being a shortage. How come it's so unique? >> Uh, thank you for the question. I think the program in Alabama is unique mainly because it was built starting with the needs of the employers. We spoke with our Alabama Hospital Association,
Alabama Nursing Home Association. They were the ones that were driving this because they are the ones that are feeling that pinch. They just don't have enough people at the bedside to provide the service that they want to provide. They went and worked directly with our Alabama Community College system and our Alabama board of nursing. Um, I have
found that our board of nursing, I didn't know at the time, but is is much more progressive in their thought than a lot of the ones across the country. And, uh, our board of nursing created a nurse apprentice license that designates the scope of practice for that person so that, you know, you don't have confusion about what is this person allowed to do
or not do on the job. And because it was designed that way, comfortable employers are comfortable putting these people to work. And they get a return on the investment that they're making. We always say that apprenticeship is an employer's investment in their people. and you don't get a return on investment you don't make. So the employers are uh
seeing that investment, they're seeing the value add to that. Um and they are they're taking it up very quickly. Uh so we have the only statewide model now with over a thousand nursing apprentices, 87 employers, 28 colleges and universities. >> Most employers have skin in the game. >> Yes, sir. Every employer in Alabama has
skin in the game. We have a uh what we call a last dollar scholarship policy. So we do not allow an employ a apprentice to incur any debt for going through the training. Um, if there's a bill left over after things like GI Bill or we owe or appel or whatever gift aid we can find, uh, we call that coupon
hunting. We try to bring the price down as much as we can, but if there's a bill left over, it goes to the employers. And, uh, at first we were kind of worried that they would balk at that, but they absolutely have not. Uh, they see the value in it, they pick it up, and they've run with it. >> Thank you, Dr. McCain. U glad you're
here. Could you tell us about what we can do from the federal level to help with the community college system apprenticeships? >> Absolutely. Um I think one of the things that um we need within community colleges intermediaries to be able to go out and
bring the businesses where they're able to work with the community colleges. A lot of times the community colleges don't have the bandwidth to be able to reach out to businesses. They have workforce development departments. They have people that are working in workforce development. But how do we
ensure that um what the uh small businesses need especially around related technical instruction? A lot of your businesses don't know what related technical instruction looks like. They don't know um what uh they know what on the job training looks like, but how can
we get more of the infrastructure around community colleges and that's done through giving them those intermediaries to work with them. Thank you. Uh Mr. Carrick, you mentioned that in your testimony 15% of the famed students participate in registered
apprenticeships. Can you speak on why employers choose not to register for the program? >> Sure. So when you look at at the registered apprentichip model, um it is uh it is designed with a lot of compliance elements to it. manufacturers
are able to design a program like FAME where they can work directly with the community colleges. They can recruit students. They can train them how they need, allow them to earn associate degree, pay them along the way, and set them up to be global best entry level
multi-skilled maintenance technicians. And we don't need the registered apprenticeship system in order to do that. Now, in some cases, in some states, the the balance between cost and benefit falls in favor of registering the program. North Carolina is probably the best example of this where the state
offers a number of incentives that um in the the minds are in the evaluation of the employers that lead the program. They decide that participating in registered apprentichip made sense in that case. So, it's really a a an evaluation of the balance between the costs and the benefits. Unfortunately,
at the federal level, that balance tends to be um a little bit out of whack. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Senator Sanders. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um let me just uh start off with a question. I think
it's on the minds of many people. This committee had a hearing on artificial intelligence and I would throw in robotics. Let me start with you, Mr. Carrick. Uh who are involved in manufacturing. Many of us want to see manufacturing grow in the United States, but from a workers's perspective, it ain't going to mean much if the work is
done by robots. Uh what impact do you think robotics is going to have on manufacturing and the ability of young people to get jobs, decent paying jobs in manufacturing? >> Yeah. Uh two points. Thank you for the the question, ranking member. I believe that robotics already play a significant
role in manufacturing and some of the best jobs in manufacturing are those that are operating those robots are maintaining those robots and are fixing them when when they break. So robotics is a pretty significant element of manufacturing already when you layer in
AI AI has also been a significant ele element of manufacturing through vision systems and machine learning. And as we look at Gen AI and how that intersects with with manufacturing, when we talk to to manufacturing executives, they believe that the best use case for Gen
AI is actually in the technician workforce. >> All right. You're looking at the positive aspect. I mean, there are other people who will say that the day may come when there'll be very few human beings in a factory. True. >> I don't believe so. I believe that. >> Okay. I I want to ask other questions
and I know there are differences of opinion on that. Let me ask Mr. Downey and Mr. Booka, what impact are you seeing in terms of job creation? Any concerns about AI or robotics? Mr. Booka, did you want to jump in or what's the de? >> Yeah, look the and that's part of why the registered apprentichip system works for us is because we're in collaboration
with our employers, right? So, as technology happens, we have to embrace it. Um, that being said, yeah, there's some fear over AI taking over humans in the workforce. Um, and and I'm here to represent, you know, our members and our future members. And >> you're for the humans, right?
>> I mean, every time I'm for the All right, let me ask uh again the union guys. Um President Trump has canled about a 100,000 clean energy jobs. Uh and that includes 7 and a half
billion for 223 clean energy projects. What does that mean to uh decent paying jobs? Mr. Downey, you want to >> Thank you. Um, so those clean energy jobs, they're real hours for us. We've done tens of millions of hours due to
the labor standards that the that were tied to the inflation reduction act. So the shutting down of those projects uh were a direct hit to our members learning wages. >> Mr. Chaos and uncertainty, you know, when you when you look at people who uh
take the revolution win example, they were on a barge in the middle of the ocean on Friday. Uh get a stop work order. they've got to get back on shore and they don't know when their next check's coming. Um, so that uncertainty, that chaos, imagine not knowing when your next check's coming from when you thought you had a job. I've met members
in Minnesota who are working on solar who had a 10-year plan that he was going to go from solar project to solar project to solar project. Uh, who had bought a house, who is raising his kids there, who doesn't know after he finishes this job if he's going to have his next job and where that's going to come from. So, imagine the stress.
Imagine you don't get your pension benefits. You don't get your healthare. um the the stress that you have as an individual to provide for your family is overbearing, >> right? Uh Mr. Laney, tell us how extensive is the nursing crisis in this country.
>> It's massive. Sir, the the nursing crisis is everywhere. Um and it's not just nurses. Uh our our hospitals and nursing homes are facing shortages of rad techs and all kinds of other things. >> Um and and the nursing model for us, >> by the way, if I can interject. >> Yes, sir. What will massive cuts in
Medicaid mean to nursing homes? >> If they don't have any money, they can't pay any people. It's that's as simple as I can make it. I don't I don't uh track Medicaid payments very closely. I'm trying to >> But nursing homes are highly dependent on Medicaid payments, >> as far as I understand. Yes, sir. >> Cut Medicaid payments. You're going to
make it harder for nursing homes to survive. >> But go on, talk about the nursing shortage in nursing homes, etc. And how do we solve it? >> Right. I think we solve it by establishing uh scalable competency based apprentichip programs that are directly tied to the skills that the
person needs on the job and then we make those programs more affordable in nursing and teaching both good examples. People are expected to go to work for free for a period of time and that blocks out a lot of people from participating. >> Help me out on this one. One of the problems we're having in Vermont and I
think it's national, we don't have enough nurse educators, people with graduate degrees to train nurses. Is that a problem you're addressing? >> Yes, sir, it is because you got to get them in as nurses before they can become nurse educators. So, we we do look at that full pipeline. >> And are you raising salaries for nursing
educators so they'll stay in education rather than going into a hospital, for example? >> Uh it's actually the other way around. We're not We don't raise salaries. It's up to the employers what they're going to pay, supply and demand. But we one of the problems is there are so much higher paying jobs beyond the bedside, right,
>> that people are are steadily pulled up out of that. And so, uh, employers are having to pay more, uh, for those people beside the bed, but as we say, you you can't pay your way out of a skills gap. You have to train your way out of a skills gap. And so, we we look for those opportunities to create options for people to be able to afford to go into
those jobs. >> Okay. Thanks. Thank you all very much. >> For the record, I'll note that the the one big beautiful bill did not affect nursing homes. Just to uh say that, >> the record, it devastated nursing homes. For the record, we can do that because that's a question of fact, but I
challenge you to bring that up. >> I will bring it up anytime. When you make massive cuts to Medicaid, when twothirds of nursing home revenue comes from Medicaid, you devastate nursing homes. >> I look forward to your apology, Senator Marshall. >> Mr. Chairman, I I just want to agree with you that I'm so proud of what we
did in the big beautiful bill that we prour we protected, we preserved Medicaid dollars for nursing homes. that's exactly what they're meant to do and that's exactly what we did in that bill. Uh not to mention that we got rid of the nurse mandate uh as well to help protect our nursing homes. But anyway,
Mr. Chairman, have I ever mentioned that I I graduated from a community college. My wife graduated from community college once or twice. Okay. I want to make sure that I'm that I'm just so proud of the work that community colleges and tech colleges are doing in Kansas. They're absolutely the bright star of education
in Kansas. As a matter of fact, they've been working to better align the registered apprentice system with higher education institutions, including implementing pathways that employers design for high wage, high demand occupations. We're also creating pathways for union apprentices to earn
associate and bachelor's degrees. Nearly all our community and tech colleges are acting as group sponsors, providing strong support for employers to start new registered apprentice programs. I'll have the same question for Mr. Laney, Dr. McCain, and Mr. Carrick, how do you
see Perkins CT and other federal funding initiatives supporting these efforts? Maybe kind of briefly, one minute each or 30 seconds each. >> Yes, sir. Perkins Perkins is a very easy fit. Um, and I heard mention of 18 year olds uh working in manufacturing, but you can be a registered apprentice at
16. And that's where I think a lot of that overlap occurs is where we start our high school students uh in youth apprenticeship programs uh which is still needs to be a registered apprentichip with all the same training requirements and safety and all of that. But there's no reason to wait until they are out of school. People have a a
tendency to continue doing what they've started doing. And so if we can get these students engaged in work-based learning while they're in school, then we'll keep them in there. >> Chris, thank Dr. McCain. I think the Perkins funds can be used for infrastructure purposes on college community college campuses, especially
the equipment that's needed. Um, there's a lot of technology now. Uh, we build ships for the Navy, so there's a lot of technology and because of the technology changes, we need more of that infrastructure within the community colleges. So, we can use our Perkins funds for that. We also need PEL grants
uh for students to be able to pay for the related technical instruction the tuition to be able to do that as well as when you think about the on the job training some of that Perkins fund some of those dollars can be used for the on the job training as well. So I think it's very important that we have all of
these braid these dollars together to be able to use it to be able to help not only with infrastructure but with the students as well. >> Yeah. Thanks for reminding me. In the big beautiful bill, we added flexibility to the Perkins grants which would can be used in these apprenticeships as as as well. So, uh, M Mr. Carrick, I think you're next. I
>> I would reiterate the the infrastructure at the community college. The average manufacturing lab at community college probably has over a million dollars of equipment in it, right? >> So, being able to outfit that with the latest technology to ensure that we're staying current with the skill requirements would be the top priority. >> Yeah. All over whether it's the nursing
programs or learning to run big equipment. Uh today's a uh HVAC systems were not my grandfather's HVAC systems. Welding in today's world is so much different than the shop class I took in my grandfather's barn. It's very technologydriven and each high school
can't afford uh the investment. So these these centlo tech colleges, community colleges can make an investment and all the high schools can use them. So it's working. I'll follow up um with Mr. Downey, Mr. Mr. Booker. I'm so also so proud of the union's engagement across
the state of Kansas and their the their own apprenticeships and then using apprenticeships engaged with our community colleges and technical colleges. How are your unions engaging with higher education? Sure your members can take full advantage of these pathways. Mr. Downey, you're first please.
>> Thank you. So our itch is affiliated with the Houston Community College accredited. Um we have outreach all throughout the country with many community college programs. We've even started our own um programs where we can try to reach out to younger students
even at the high school level so that we can capture their capture them at that level. Um we have a couple programs affiliated with community colleges in Missouri and in Kansas that have been wildly successful and have spread out from there.
>> Great. Um Mr. Booker, go ahead. >> And and I'd also like to focus first on the high school. You know, we have a learn our what we call as our learn program where we put in curriculum to learn the trades in high school settings. So that not college isn't for everybody. So those that uh want to continue into the trades, they get into the registered apprenticeship through
there. Once you're in the registered apprenticeship, there's a lot of our programs who partner just like you described with a community college that upon graduation of your apprentichip, you're also handed a two-year associates degree from your local community college that will then set you up to either continue your, you know, your skill set, applying your skill set, um, living the
American dream and building our nation's infrastructure or continuing in and higher education from there. But you got both of those while you you earned while you learned. >> Yeah. I just want to brag one more time. The world champion welder is from Southeast Kansas Community College. World champion welder. Um, another one
of their students when he finished high school had completed the welding program at that community college. His starting salary is over $100,000 a year. And guess what? It's not in green new energies. He's working on an oil pipeline, a gas pipeline as well. And if we had time, I'd love for you to talk
about the salaries of union workers on oil and gas projects as opposed to some of the green energy uh jobs that you were talking about, but I'm out of time and I'll yield back to the chairman >> and uh Senator Baldwin. >> Thank you uh Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you
to all of our witnesses today. I am just a huge fan of registered apprenticeships. Um, I will uh share that uh I have bragging rights as a a represent senator from Wisconsin. We were the first state to pass uh an
apprenticeship law back in 1911 and it is um certainly a model for other programs across the country. Um it was uh uh not until 1937 that the US followed suit and uh passed our national
apprenticeship laws. and they haven't uh particularly been modernized since that time. Uh I lead a bipartisan bill to uh do that. Um but look uh to grow our economy, to expand the middle class, to
meet business workforce demands, um we need to make sure that workers have access to the skills training uh to land these good paying jobs and registered apprenticeships are going to be a centerpiece for that. Um but continued
growth and success of apprenticeship programs depend on there being job openings for apprentices to fill. And uh I I want to uh shine a spotlight again on the unprecedented uncertainty that we
are seeing right now associated with federal funding. Um this uncertainty uh directed by the Trump administration is completely unacceptable. Even grants for infrastructure and energy projects that have already been awarded are no longer
a sure thing, putting the jobs created in jeopardy. The administration's stated goal is to enroll 1 million new apprentices. And if they want to work together to reach that goal, then sign me up. But we will not get there by
cancelling billions of dollars in projects and scrapping tens of thousands of jobs. As just one example, the city of Milwaukee just lost $34 million in funding and $450 jobs because
Republicans voted to rescend a grant for streetscape improvements in their big ugly bill. Um, President Booker, you've talked a bit about this in your opening statement. Uh, so I'm going to first uh ask uh President Downey to uh to sort of
um talk a little bit more about just the example I gave in Milwaukee. How does this current uncertainty related to federal funding impact registered apprentices apprentice programs? >> Thank you for the question. Um, so the
one great thing about our apprenticeship programs, it allows us to scale or pull back on apprentices as we look at the forecast of work uh that's upcoming. My home locals, eastern half of Pennsylvania is probably similar exper
experience or example that you just said. Huge project in an area that's pretty rural. our local ahead of time with our partnership with our employers. We look at the work for forecast knew this this big 2025 billion dollar project is in the pipeline. We raised
our apprenticeship levels six by 65% uh in two years in a row to be prepared to do that. So the uncertainty that creates just in just in the construction industry when a job like that is pulled um it has that ripple effect for us
because now we have a bunch of students in our apprenticeship program that we're now trying to find work for and when you don't have work for them they end up finding work somewhere and then they go out of the program. I mean it's that's just not good for the industry. >> Appreciate that uh explanation. Another
issue that endangers the growth of apprenticeship programs is the administration's actions against those who face barriers to employment. So earlier this year we fought against the administration's attempt to eliminate job core which can provide students with
pathways into apprenticeship programs through partnerships with labor unions. Um, the Department of Labor uh recently published a proposal to eliminate the equal employment opportunity requirements that apply to registered
apprenticeship programs which are designed to ensure that under reppresented individuals in apprenticeships, including women, have a fair shot at participating. The department claims that the proposed rule will quote streamline and simplify
sponsors obligations, but workforce advocates have shown how equal opportunity protections are necessary to expand apprenticeships and are not a high burden on program sponsors. So, President Booker, what are your views on
the administration's proposal? How will the roll back of protections impact the goal of reaching 1 million new apprentices? >> Right? And we we oppose that rule because our programs are designed to bring people into them. And and we have specific programs to bring veterans in, to bring underserved communities, to
bring women, uh to bring minorities into our program. I don't want any constraints on that because I want to be able to lift people up. And that's the whole idea of registered apprentichip. The whole idea of our union is to let people live the American dream. bring them in, teach them skills that last a lifetime, and let's not have any
constraints as to who we're bringing in the door. Once they come in the door, they have to pass different levels and different skill sets and different requirements to get there. Let's do everything we can to open that door to as many community, as many people as we can without any restrictions. So then we can teach them those skills to let them live the American dream.
>> Thank you, >> Senator Hen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh thanks to all of you today for joining us. I I have uh it's actually a topic I've been very involved in because I led workforce development efforts when I was in Ohio
as lieutenant governor and Ohio has the third most apprenticeships of any state in the country. Over 26,000 in our state, number three, we're number one in the Midwest. Uh we know that the changing work environment is a place
where employers value skills over degrees. So helping more individuals become apprentices, earn credentials certainly. Uh very good. What I love about the apprenticeship model is the earn while
you learn aspect of it is that people can uh they don't have to pay tuition to get a job. They actually get paid to learn and go to work, which is a model that I I think America would benefit
from. Even in Ohio, we created that process for teachers to do an apprenticeship into uh becoming a teacher rather than having to go get a four-year degree. I think the one other thing that we did here recently is workforce PEL, allowing PEL grants to be
used for workforce credentiing. We did that in uh the budget reconciliation bill. So, all of those things are progress and we talk about college, but we can even dig into high schools. high schools. I've been to many, many, many high schools, career centers where we have students who are already partnering
with labor and business to earn credentials uh that to begin that apprenticeship, pre-apprenticeship process while they're in high school. And I'll I'll talk with you, Mr. Downey, because I know I've had a great relationship with the operating engineers in Ohio, Michael Berlone, and
and even his predecessors. Um and and uh uh Senator Sanders raised this about technology, but when I visited the operating engineers, you were incorporating technology into the machinery and equipment that you're training these young people on, some of
them not so young sometimes. Tell me about the process that you use to do some really high-tech training for operating engineers that go out under the work site. >> Sure. Thank you, Senator. Um, so you know, we want to lead in that space. We
have relationship not only with our signatory employers but also with the equipment manufacturers. So we're doing our best to get in on the ground floor as they develop that and they take input from from our union because they know that, you know, we're the best skilled
operators in the world. And so we have partnerships with some equipment manufacturers uh for that autonomous equipment. We've been businesses are working with you on this. They're helping you, you know, >> correct? Because they need the the input, >> the talent >> from the worker.
>> Yeah. Uh and and how can we how can we do more in that space? Is there any quick thoughts on that? >> I think it's still pretty new. >> Yeah. >> Um we're not seeing a whole lot of autonomous stuff yet out on the job site. Uh I think it's coming, but I think it's going to need humans with it.
There's a big safety factor there. Yes, I think Jeremy Cassidy made the remark about we're not going to replace people swinging hammers and uh you know I think you'd be naive to say that it's it's not going to happen eventually and who knows if it is. We don't know that. I think
>> I want to ask another question. I want to I want to let Mr. Booker answer a couple questions because I know we've worked very well with the laborers in Ohio whether it was well Ralph Cole or now Clint Powell who leads the locals there. Um what
one of the things we did in Ohio is allowed for direct uh entry uh using previous workforce experiences to account toward your apprenticeship. Um you know is that is that common across the country and and can we do more of that?
>> It is common and and that's how you attract people when you people who have experience in the construction industry. We don't want to set them back at a at a scale you know that that doesn't make sense for their skills. So, we bring them into our world-class training facility. We have our instructors who get their direction from both labor and
management. They assess their skill sets and they say, "Hey, you know what? You've got the skills to be a level three out of four." And you earn that money. You you do your hours. You you you show your skill sets and then you can progress very quickly through the apprenticeship if you have those skills >> and and earning while you learn through
that process. It's >> the only way our system works. You have to go to work. You have to learn on the job and you have to make money. And then as part of the making money that you're doing, we've elected to put money back into the training center to fund that training center. >> So, so I'm just going to conclude with this. I appreciate I wanted you to share
those because I've had just great relationships in seeing this happen, but I think we should do this with more of our education system, not just go away to college and have it unconnected to a job and a and a work experience. that we have people who are earning and learning
and doing that right through high school in into that postsecary world that doesn't have to be college but could be if if if people wanted to but it's it's that connection between education and work experience that we've lost. We've got to get it back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
>> Thank you, Senator Huststead. Now, Senator Kaine. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. What a great panel. Glad that you're all here. Um I uh son of an iron worker. My dad ran this iron worker organized ironworking shop. A lot of folks in the shop had come through the apprentice programs
with the iron workers saw the value of the public private management labor model. Um I associate myself with Senator Sanders questions as well as a big promoter of career and technical education. Kids in high school who are in career and tech programs, they love
their academic subjects better because it turns out that in the classroom they realize it's not just about the memorization of facts. the involvement in technical education gets to enables them to see, oh, these aren't just facts, they actually have real world applications. Um, so I'm glad that we're focused on this this topic. Dr. McCain,
I'm very familiar with the apprenticeship program, but you said something that interested me might have picked up a little bit on the point that Senator Sanders made that you are now seeing students that are having to kind of convince their parents that, hey, this is a good model. So I I imagine you must work with guidance counselors in
the local school systems. Um folks who may not consider technical or apprenticeship type careers. We need to sort of broaden their aperture. Describe a little bit about how you make the case to parents, guidance counselors, and others. >> Absolutely. So we started a pre-apprenticeship program. We realized
that we needed to go back into K12 and invite parents to be along in the process. And so to be a part of the pre-apprenticeship program, you have to bring your parents to get an overview of what the program is all about. And so, uh, once parent parents come in and they
lock into what we're doing, um, and understanding that we're giving their students, um, augmented and virtual reality around ship building, understanding ship building. We also allow the parents to be able to go through the training as well. And so to be able to bring the parents along with
the students, uh we have guidance counselors that actually come to our school. We actually have a whole day where we expose the the guidance counselors to ship building and what we're all about. And so to be able to bring all of the stakeholders to the table to be a part of the journey with
the students and get them on board early, we found that that to be very very essential for the growth of our school. >> That's excellent. Thanks, Dr. McCain. And and to Mr. Mr. Booker, Mr. Downey, thank you guys for your important leadership. You know, you talked about
the chaos factor and I and I want to focus on that, too. President Trump has canceled a ton of economic development projects in Virginia. And I'll tell you what my suspicion is. I wish it was otherwise. I don't think he liked the fact that it was a Joe Biden bill. I mean, I don't really think he's
intentionally trying to hurt the economy. That's in fact what he's doing, but I think these projects are being cancelled because they were part of a a Biden bill. I hope he'll restore them so that the economy can get back on track. The economyy's got all kinds of smoke coming out of it and red lights flashing right now and these projects need to be
done. But here's an opportunity for President Trump and Congress in a bipartisan way. We did the bipartisan infrastructure law in November of 2021. Five-year investment, $1.2 trillion dollar of infrastructure money. Five um
about 750 billion of it had had already been programmed. It was existing funding sources, but it was an additional add-on of 550 billion over five years, 100 billion a year. Many of the projects that you're describing that the operating engineers and the labors are
working on have been funded because of that money. But the the revenue sources and the program expires November 2026. Here would be an excellent opportunity. It was bipartisan and it can be bipartisan again. President Trump and Congress, Democrats and Republicans, we shouldn't let those revenue sources
expire. we should continue them. And then President Trump can focus on a number of his own infrastructure priorities. He's talked, for example, about modernizing the air traffic control system. That's not cheap. We put 12 billion in it in the reconciliation bill, but it's going to take at least another 20 billion, maybe more. Would it
be a good idea for the folks that you guys represent if Congress in a bipartisan way were to work together with President Trump to extend that bipartisan infrastructure law for another five years? >> Without question. Absolutely. it's going to create jobs. Um, and and Senator Marshall left. I just want to circle
back on one of the things he said of of, you know, what's the the the scale of a labor on an oil and gas project versus a solar project because of the infrastructure bill, because of the IRA, because of the CHIPS bill, that rate was the same. Um, and those laws made sure that they were highcale
living wage jobs. >> And so, and as far as you're concerned, they're all good. >> And they're they're they're good jobs because they're people who are firmly in the middle class. Same thing with this. If we let the infrastructure bill expire, uh if we let you know the the IRA, what the reconciliation bill did with with taking those tax credits away
from uh the IRA, it means that it's going to be low road unscrupulous contractors um going back into these markets. If Congress works together and do what they did before, um in a bipartisan way, transportation bills, infrastructure has always been bipartisan. Um let's lift up our
citizens. Let's lift up our members. Let's lift up Americans to build our nation's energy and and physical infrastructure. Thank thanks so much. We can we can do this together and it can be a big win not only for workers and the economy, it can be a big win for President Trump because again he has some key priorities that will need that
funding in order to you know enable us to get there. So I hope we can work on that between now and next November get it done. Thanks Mr. Chair. >> Senator Kanum actually there's so many bipartisan bills on this we can actually do this piece of legislation. Uh I just want to stress that because when we were doing the preparation and there's a lot
of overlap between your two stuff again Mr. Booker, you started off by saying, "My gosh, you don't want a pipeline discontinued and then restarted and discontinued." That was the Keystone XL. So, I think every site has their grievances. We need certainty and stability. I actually, Senator Kim, I'm going to go ahead and go this time. I
apologize. Um, Mr. Downey. Um you um submitted comments to the Biden Department of Labor on registered apprenticeships saying curriculum design should be left to plan sponsors who are the best position to craft a curriculum that fits their industry. So very
briefly, I've got a bunch of questions. Why are program sponsors in the best position to craft that curriculum? And how can the federal government promote flexibility for industry and programs? And be tight with your answer, please.
You want the perspective from the contractors out there doing this work? >> I want your perspective. >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat the question then because I I mis the International Union of Operating Engineers submitted comments to the Biden Department of Labor proposed rules on registered
apprenticeships saying that curriculum design should be left to plan sponsors who are in the best position to craft a curriculum fitting their industry. >> They're in the industry. You got the workers perspective and the employer's perspective creating that curriculum. >> So, so again, not somebody in Washington
DC kind of imagining what might be the best fit, but rather you guys deciding what the best fit would be >> because we're in that business. Correct. >> Okay, Mr. Laney. Um, registration requirements are inconsistent state-to-state.
To what extent does this deter registration at state levels? How can and should this be streamlined and standardized? >> Yes, sir. It makes registration especially for multi-state employers very difficult. Um similar to how there are uh you need to be close to the
workers and close to the employers to understand what the curriculum needs to be. You also need to be close to the people in the states to understand what those local differences are whether it's prevailing wages or apprentichip ratios or whatever. So we are advocating to move away from the concept of
reciprocity which would ask Alabama to just accept a set of standards walking in the door from Pennsylvania or something like that. Move towards interoperability where we make the description of the work and the description of the training. That's the part that we need to look at the meat and potatoes of the apprentichip, the
RTI and the OJL. Prevet those across states so that any employer can go and say I need to work in this state, this state, this state. pull down a set of standards off the shelf, as you will, and know that those standards are going to be acceptable in the state that they move to. >> Let me just say, I once had a patient who taught me that the southeast United
States is a like like a walk in terms of there's a job in Lake Charles, Louisiana, and the workers go there and then there's a job on a nuclear plant in Georgia and they go there. But the flexibility would be needed across all states. So, that makes sense to me. >> Absolutely. >> Um, you also, um, um, let me ask this.
Where do you strike the balance between creating standards flexible enough to meet the workforce need but uniform enough to encourage the apprenticeship program registration? >> You strike it at the employers and at the workers. You go to those people and ask them what needs to be done. You
mentioned earlier um and and previous comments were made about not starting in DC and then telling everybody what needs to be in a training outline. So our project Paisy is working in exactly that. Let me ask you would that end up restricting that particular employee to a particular hunting and engage
establishes what it is could the employee then go someplace else with the same training maybe to Engles I don't know what do you think >> yes sir if it is written in terms of competencies then we're not nailing this down to something that's only done at that particular place these are the broad skills and the competencies that the abilities of that person so they are
portable and transferable between employers the worker has mobility but also on the whole, just like that walk example you gave, I don't need ship builders right now, but somebody on the other side of town does need ship builders. We've both satisfied our worker requirements because we've built these training outlines in a way that
are applicable across the board. >> Miss McCain, Dr. McCain, I'm sorry. Um, registered apprenticeship programs currently must fall under a DO approved occupation code before an apprenticeship can be registered. U, but these occupations are evolving. Man, we just
been hearing about this. So um do these requirements give you the flexibility to position a worker to succeed in an occupation and if the occupation evolves etc etc. >> No it does not um because you have when
because it's so restricted a lot of times your small businesses they can't fit um their program within the registered apprenticeships what are already registered. So how do we come up with new apprenticeship programs? We need that flexibility to be able to do that because right now it's too
restrictive. >> Mr. Mr. Booker, I'm very impressed with the work you and Mr. Downey are doing. It does seem like if you have an occupational code, the occupation is is evolving. Um, how do you or Mr. Downey, how do you all handle I only got 16 seconds. How do you handle this? Does
there need to be more flexibility in the occupation code? >> Specific to the code, I can't answer that. But I can tell you what we do practically is is when our career evolves, when it changes, we go to the state to the federal government and say here's what the the the skills um of of the labor of the general labor
classification and we get uh we get that squared away. So that there's flexibility within the current system that we use today as our careers and our and our and our classifications evolve over time. >> Mr. Downey, I have to hold on you because I got to discipline myself as well as everybody else. Um Senator Kim,
>> thank you, Chairman. Uh thank you all for coming here. Mr. Downey, I wanted to start with you. Uh I was struck by something in your testimony. You said, quote, uh "Our model works best when there is funding for projects to put our members to work." You want to say, "If we want to attract and train more
skilled trade, skilled trade apprentices and strengthen recruitment. History shows the best strategies to fund the projects that create the very jobs they're training to do. Uh this is why we don't overtrain." And what I take away from that and I think this is an important nuance you know is the
importance of that calibration right that that sense of of making sure that the pipeline is there so that you can ensure that there's a job ready for them afterwards. Is that right? >> Thank you, Senator. Yes, that's correct.
The system the system is designed today to be able to have enough people in the workforce when they're needed. >> And then when they're not needed, you know, we're not bringing new apprentices in and they're not working. >> And you're so and your work there needs to be in terms of calibrating. You're assessing what are the needs that are
out there and trying to understand and trying to meet where the number of jobs need to land to be able to uh to meet those needs. Right. >> That's correct. And we don't just do it with our signatory employers. We do it with all stakeholders. We get the input directly from the owner client community
as well. I >> I I think what I really take away here is is not just in terms of yes, we need to do more to be able to increase that demand, you know, project, you know, efforts like what we did with the bipartisan infrastructure law, but you also talk about uncertainty. You know,
both you and Mr. Booker have talked about this and, you know, for instance, I just think about in terms of my own home state. You know, right now we have the largest construction project in our region is there, but there's a lot of uncertainty about the Gateway Tunnel project right now because we're just not certain what exactly is happening when
the president says he wants to terminate it. When we hear from the Department of Transportation that, you know, things are hopefully going to continue on. We got workers there from both of your unions still working on that on a day-to-day basis. I'm trying to do everything I humanly can to make sure that that's keeping forward. But I'll be
honest with you, the uncertainty is uh deeply frustrating. I guess I just wanted to ask you, I'll start with you, Mr. Downey. Just when you're seeing that kind of uncertainty, when you see this type of just politicization sometimes of our infrastructure, how does that affect
your calibration? How does affect your ability to try to understand what the needs are? Well, I I think it really when we're we're having the discussion that we want to attract the younger generation into our field or our line of work when they
see that un that instability um I think it it makes them look somewhere else. So it creates a not necessarily a road block but some some apprehension in when they want to consider what career path to head down. So it's affecting the recruitment you
think you know in terms when people are looking is this going to be a steady job for me you know is this something that I can count on that that that gets a little shaky is that right m >> Mr. Booker I mean you also talked about that saying that you currently have 35,000 apprentices embarking but the
future is looking more uncertain. You use the word chaos several times. uh how does that affect you know your mind when you're seeing things like this uncertainty around the gateway tunnel project which again many of your uh members are working on.
>> Yeah, it's it it creates an environment where people don't want to go uh and join the trades and and when they not sure like we do a lot of community organizing. We do a lot of member outreach. Go talk to them. Go visit them in their neighborhoods and see where they're at. When they're in their community, they talk about a steady job and many of our people have been working
for a long time. But when you turn on the news and the job that you're on, there's a, you know, everybody's talking that it's going to be terminated, it's going to be canceled, it's going to be held in in in limbo during these negotiations, that the the the human capital that's being played here uh should never happen. We we we should
fund a project, we should permanent a project, and we should let our members go to work. And when you don't do that, it creates a negative strain against registered apprentichip and trying to bring in that next generation of workers to build our infrastructure. I had the chance to be able to sit down with some laborers in in New Jersey that are working on these projects up north like
the Gateway and they talked about it in terms of they built a life up there. They built a whole family up there. And with something like the Gateway, I mean, we're talking about 13 years worth of work here. I mean, that is generational in terms of the amount of support. So, you know, it's not just about the recruitment, right? It's also about the
people that are there that are trying to know whether or not they're going to have steady work going forward for the families and the kids that they got in school. And I I was on that project about a month ago and and and met our members. There was father sons working on that project that they handed that down to the next generation um to do
that. And imagine that imagine that stress on your family if you brought your son into this industry, worked on a project you thought you'd be working on for the next 10 years. And and now you have to turn on the national news to see be talking about whether it's terminated or not. >> Yeah. Well, look, I'll just close here and just say, you know, we deserve the
workers deserve certainty about this. I'm going to continue to fight tooth and nail to get that certainty about Gateway as well as all these other projects around the country. And with that, I'll yield back. >> Senator Mowski. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for for your
contributions here before the committee. Um I wasn't here when Senator Baldwin was asking her question, but uh we visited outside and and I felt both of us made some pretty good progress um uh with the National Apprenticeship Act that we had worked on in the previous
Congress. And and one of the things that uh uh I had really taken away um from the leadup to the introduction of that bill, I reached out to um to our uh our unions around the state of Alaska. I
reached out to those that have apprenticeship programs and I said, "What's what's really the big challenge here um when it comes to to apprenticeships in a state like Alaska that is not only rural, it's really rural." And so, uh, one of the things
that we heard and we heard it repeated was a shortage of what we will call wraparound services. And it's everything from child care, it's everything. I need to take care of an aging parent. It's education. It's housing. I mean, it's
all the things that go into those barriers that keep someone from completing their apprenticeship uh training. And so, I I' I'd throw this out. You know, you've got ship building here, you got different uh interests represented, you've got some of our our
unions here. Um, is this an issue beyond just the state of Alaska? Um, can the federal government be helpful in in ensuring that those who have the interest, those that have the talent are going to be able to participate in some
of these programs or do you just have to kind of figure it out on your own and if you're if you're lucky enough to be able to do that? Um, but if if yall can can weigh in on that. Now, I'm not going to identify anybody to go first. Whoever
wants to weigh in. Go ahead, Mr. Downey. >> Thank you, Senator. I would just uh point out two areas I think that the federal government can uh help and it's already been discussed today and that would be in the pre pre-apprenticeship uh world where we can attract the the younger generation to come into the
trades. Somebody had mentioned JobCore. Uh the IOE runs 10 job core centers in the United States. We had 300 graduates last year and of those 300 we put 40% of those into our apprenticeship programs. So I think there's uh an opportunity
there to uh attract younger people. >> Okay. Anybody else? Mr. Laney. >> Yes. Senator McCowsky. I would say that Alabama has a lot of similarities there. We are rural, not as rural as Alaska, but we do face some of those same challenges with wraparound services. the
uh integration uh registered apprentichip is the only program that automatically qualifies for uh WEOA uh go on the ETPL eligible training provider list. Uh the integration of those two things is not effective right now. There's there's money there. It's too difficult for the employers to access. Many of them would rather just
not fool with it because it's not the juice is not worth the squeeze as we say. Um so we need to work on those integrations of existing programs so that we can take advantage of weo is there for those wraparound services. Exactly. Registered apprentichip doesn't need to try to take that on
independently. We need to address that with the existing programs. >> Good. Let me let me go ahead, Mr. >> I would just just add to that real quick. Some of the wraparound services, child care tax credit is helpful to get people to allow to afford childare where they're gone. We as a union have uh
embraced and embarked upon providing a maternity leave policy uh for our female laborers who have who have been working to make sure that they don't have a choice between they or their baby's health and their career. that we're going to pay for them for while while they're out. And the last thing I would say is sign a collective bargain agreement. There's no disparity between
a man and a woman, uh, race, color, creed, anything like that. When you're working under a collective bargaining agreement, your wage is defined in that agreement. Um, and that is a pathway and and a way to to participate. >> Let me let me ask another question. We are uh a state um where we've been very
keenly focused on on on oil production and that has been our backbone for for a while. Um but we are also a state that recognizes that um uh we've got an all of the- above energy uh uh uh
opportunity, but how we build out that workforce. So you've got workers who are very skilled in the oil and gas field. Um but we also need them to be equally skilled when it comes to to uh uh wind
turbines um uh solar uh um projects. How how do we make sure that you've got this nimble nimleness? I don't know if that's a word, but the ability to be nimble between um between the the training
programs again for for what we would say it's all of the above in the energy world. Mr. Booker, >> I'll start with I mean the first thing that we have us the operating engineers at UA and the teamsters have a joint training facility in Fairbanks that is specific to pipeline 88 acres.
>> We're very excited and very pleased about it. >> I was there I was there at the end of February and that's another barrier to work on a pipeline. Go up on the North Slope in February and that's going to be a barrier to entry as well. But uh >> it just proves what your medal is. >> Yeah. Exactly. So, but you know, you have those training facilities that you
do that that we jointly train with, you know, and then our training curriculum is based off of training a labor to be effective in all fields of construction. So, a construction craft laborer gets training across industries so that they do have the skill sets they need, whether they're going to work on a pipeline or whether they're going to
work on a wind or a solar farm, they can go back to that school if they need a very specific 20, 30, 40hour class. But the general registered apprentichip train that we provide them is that they are a well-rounded and a skilled labor that can perform uh uh you know they can they can produce safely uh productively
and quickly um across the industry >> versatility. Thank you Mr. >> Macowski. Can I just say state apprentichip agency? State apprentichip agency. Your your people in Alaska are looking at this idea already. That gives you exactly the kind of local control flexibility to meet that varied need
that you have so that you and Alaska can say these are our unique challenges with a registered apprentichip program. That's what we need across the country. Every state needs to be in control of their own destiny for these things. >> Thank you for adding that. >> Yes. Thank you, >> Senator Blunt Rochester.
Thank you, Chairman Cassidy, and thank you to our witnesses. Um, in Delaware, I was the former Secretary of Labor. Uh, in the House of Representatives, I was the, uh, founder of the Bipartisan Future of Work Caucus. But more important than any of that, I am the
granddaughter of two steel workers, uh, Lillian Lucille Jackson and Floyd Julius Jackson. um folks that were able to um working in a steel ball bearing plant uh make a good living for my family and
uplift them into the middle class. And so um I can say I am a witness uh to the importance of apprenticeship opportunities uh in connecting people to good work and also building a skilled
workforce for our country. I I'm also proud that in Delaware we continue to invest in apprenticeship system in our system especially when it comes to expanding opportunities for young people. And for me um some of my proudest moments in Delaware in recent
years have been um working with our building trades and seeing shovels go in the ground on these massive programs. I actually said at one of our press conferences, when I hear beep beep beep, I think somebody's working. That's good news. And so for me, this is what you're
doing is critically important and this conversation is as well. But we also know that if there are no jobs, what happens is that these apprentices are not on the path to the American dream. They're on the path to unemployment. And so again, this conversation is important. And we know right now that
our economy are we have seen worst job market since the great recession in 2008. Amazon just laid off 14,000 people through through Yes. Amazon just laid off 14,000 people
and basically AI while that's not necessarily the cause they're saying they're not going to replace people because of it. So to President Booker and President Downey, do you think that the skilled jobs your apprentices and members perform are
resilient in the face of AI related automation? I think there's a certain extent of resiliency. I mean, when when you look at these data centers that I've toured a bunch of them, somebody's got to pour the concrete, they got to tilt up the walls, they got to build the cages, they got to they got to do that. So, I mean, it takes skilled hands to do that. And
that's what we pride ourselves in in doing is to actually have the people that do that. At the end of the day though, if you know these data centers and this AI has the ability to take human capital away, which I think that's the future, we've got to figure that out. And that's that's not a partisan
issue. that that's a that's an an American worker issue that we've got to figure out collectively. How do we protect jobs? How do we protect people while embracing the future and embracing technology? And I don't have the answer, but I do know if you if you train people, they're going to be able to to
to participate in this economy, they're going to live the American dream, and they're going to be able to provide for their family and in their community. >> Thank you, President Downey. I would just like to add that uh we've been around for 129 years and we've evolved from steam to diesel to hydraulic uh GPS
equipment and we're going to continue to evolve and be right there uh as technology changes. >> Thank you. I'm going to shift briefly to um Dr. McCain. I'm the ranking member on the Coast Guard maritime and fisheries
uh commerce subcommittee and um I want to emphasize our maritime and ship building workforce is truly the backbone of our industrial base and without the skilled men and women to build the the ships and maintain the fleets um we will not sustain our competitive advantage.
Dr. M McC McCain with automation advanced materials and digital design changing the nature of ship building what skill sets are most urgently needed in today's workforce >> we definitely need students with that science technology engineering and math
background and we realize that and so that's why we have invested in our pre-apprenticeship program giving them those math skills and the technology skills where we invite them to actually come on our campus um and we train them and give them those opportunities uh
before they are actually employed. So we move them from pre-apprenticeship into apprenticeships and it's amazing to see the maturation of that and now they're into u jobs that they can actually handle and they can handle the technology. >> Thank you. And uh last question to uh
Mr. Booker. Uh Delaware is working to expand registered apprenticeships to non-traditional fields like community health workers. Um in your testimony you mentioned the uh that assistance is needed for emerging industries looking to develop apprenticeships. What lessons
learned can you share with emerging industries who want to build successful apprenticeship programs that maintain high standards for both workers and employers. >> I think it's collaboration with your management partners. I think putting uh employees or workers in with uh
employers and management is the first step. Figure out how you're going to fund it yourself. Don't don't look for a government handout. Don't look for a corporate bailout. Let's figure out how we're going to fund this ourselves. Um come up with the curriculum. Come up with a real collaboration and relationship for a path forward.
>> And I will be asking questions for the record because I also want to hear particularly from the nursing perspective. We have a nursing workforce shortage bill. So we'll be asking more questions for the record. But thank you to the witnesses. >> Thank you, Senator Blunt Rochester. Now Senator Hickinlooper.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, I thank each of you for being here. I appreciate all your work on this issue. That's it's so important. Um, let me start with Mr. Downey and Mr. Booker. Um, President has canled billions of dollars worth of energy infrastructure projects and investments. Just in August, the
Department of Transportation terminated $679 million in funding for upgrades in 12 at 12 ports to support wind uh projects offshore. Um they they've issued stop work orders and rescended permits for nearly almost every offshore
wind project. Um uh earlier you guys shared that with these cuts, apprentices in your programs will find other work and drop out of the programs. What impact will this have ultimately uh once the
industry inevitably needs more workers if the if the students drop out? I I'll I'll take the first shot at that because we we spent a lot of time and resources in developing the curriculum for offshore wind to make sure that our members who are going to work on the water, which is extremely dangerous, that had the skill sets that they need,
that the safety train they need, they had the uh global wind organizations, you know, the the the safety credentials they needed to get out there in addition to a skill set that they haven't done before because we haven't built much offshore wind. So, we invested a lot of time, energy, effort, money in collaboration with our management
partners to develop curriculum that cost tens of thousands of dollars that we've trained this group of people together um that yeah, they might finish this job, but there's so much uncertainty on offshore wind. How are you going to get that next group of workers? So if it comes back, so that's just more of that uncertainty that it's an investment that
we made not only in dollars and cents, but in actual human beings, people to teach them skills that aren't going to be able to apply those skills and provide for their family going forward >> that affects the pipeline. Johnny, you want to add anything? >> Thank you. The only thing I guess that I
would add is that the disruption, you know, the the way that our programs work is over time we develop through that curriculum a a bigger workforce and we have more people to be able to put to work and now we'll we'll have that gap there with this work stopping and so it's going to be like starting all over
again uh with our membership. >> Thank you. Uh Dr. McCain, uh your work at the apprentice school is really is a fantastic model. Um it's integrating education directly uh with high-skll careers. Um one challenge is that the
average age of an apprentice nationally is 30. Um and I think we're genuinely missing an opportunity uh with students while they're still in high school. Um and the apprentice school specifically offers youth apprentichips and
pre-apprenticeship opportunities. Um, what have you found to be the most successful strategies recruiting high school students directly into your programs? And how do you break through to those students and to their parents that this is the right direction? >> Um, I think the best thing that we've
been able to do is offer them our academic courses, what we call related technical instruction while they're in high school. So, they get an opportunity to interact with our faculty. They get a chance to interact with our technology. We bring them to our campus once a month. We interact with them on a weekly
basis where we're preparing them for transition into the apprenticeship and it's required that you have to bring your parents in order for you to be a part of the pre-apprenticeship program. You have to bring your parents uh to be able to um sign you up. Of course,
they're 16, 15, 16, right? So, we want those parents uh in this space as well to understand who we are because we're competing with colleges and universities. And so, how do we make and and ensure that parents understand that um your kids are actually in a good
place? They're going to walk into highpaying jobs. They're going to own their own house by the time they're 21 years old and they don't have to sleep on your couch. Those are the kind of things that we tell parents and then they jump on board. >> I like that argument. Um I go back to do
uh Mr. Downey, Mr. Booker. um the that urgency I feel an urgency that we have so many youth out there that uh aren't getting into uh apprenticeships. Um do you see a pathway for federal support to complement and strengthen the overall
pipeline for funding youth apprenticeships um and pre-apprenticeships uh provided they adhere to, you know, robust quality and and and the highest standards in terms of safety? Uh like I mentioned earlier, I think there's uh an opportunity there for the
government to look at the pre-apprenticeship model. Um we do some things that we've funded oursel where we guarantee uh entrance into our apprenticeship programs at the high school level when they complete classes uh designed for a heavy equipment
operation. Uh if they complete that class, they're they're guaranteed a spot in the apprenticeship. But I think there's opportunity there for the government on the pre-apprenticeship level to attract the the youth. >> I would echo what John said and the only thing I would add to that um look I think the federal government should help
us create the jobs to great to have our apprentices go to work um and through infrastructure through the the different things that the that they have the control over. We've figured out registered apprenticeship as an industry for decades. We are we know how to train people. We pride ourselves on that. So,
uh, I would I would ask for the federal government. Let's go find some jobs. Let's let us figure out how to train people to do it. >> Senator Banks. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In Indiana, 25,000 people participated in apprenticeships last year, nearly a million. Uh,
nationally, apprenticeship programs are helping Hoosiers fill critically needed jobs like electricians, boiler makers, operating engineers, metal workers, and the building trades. Hers who complete a registered apprenticeship program earn
an average salary of $70,000 a year. That's $30,000 more than the average starting salary of a worker with an associates degree. Hoosiers enrolled in registered apprentichip programs earned an average wage of $20.28
earning while they learn critical skills. Mr. Carrick, we all agree that apprenticeship programs have huge benefits for workers and employ and employers, but government bureaucracy is holding registered apprenticeships back.
How how significant are the barriers created by administrative costs, compliance paperwork, and accreditation rules for instructors in registered apprenticeships? >> Thank you, Senator. Uh they're significant. um they're very significant from on just the straight paperwork
side. Small and mediumsiz manufacturers are not set up for for that level of compliance. They just want to train the next generation of workers and have them fill the jobs that they have open. So right sizing those regulations to ensure that that those companies and the the
sector as a whole are able to meet the quality standards yet not be burdened with undue paperwork is significant on on the educator side. We have hundreds of thousands of men and women that have decades of experience in manufacturing
and would love to teach the next generation, but accreditation rules require specific credentials and degrees in order to be able to do so. So, looking at how we lighten those could really free up a significant uh teacher workforce. Your organization, Federation
of Advanced Manufacturing Education, is operating in 16 states, but only 15% of your students participated in registered apprenticeships because of that regulatory burden. How can we cut red tape for those programs and make them
more workable for employers? >> Yeah, I think it's a balance of things. Number one, it's the the cost of compliance. We've talked about ratios. We've talked about some of the the EO actions. We've talked about uh the the process schedules. All of that is
paperwork. All of that any changes then requires permission from the government. So allowing employers to really run these in the way that best fits what they need is ideal for manufacturing because the apprentice and the company both have the same goal which is create
the best possible in this case for fame technician that you can because we want to keep them at the company for the long term. You you mentioned um how it could be a struggle to find qualified instructors. Uh h how should the accreditation
process change to allow people with with deep uh industry experience but not a formal degree to train uh apprentices? >> Yeah, I I think we build on some of what Mr. Laney's talking about here, which is really a skills-based model, right? So, it's not about what what your piece of
paper is, it's about what you know. So being able to align your experience with the skills required to teach becomes I think the keystone for this. >> Yeah, great conversation. U Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. >> Senator Marky.
>> Thank you, Mr. uh Chairman. Donald Trump has waged an allout assault on Union Clean Energy jobs in Massachusetts alone. 17 projects, $ 8.6 6 billion dollar of investment and almost 17,000
clean energy jobs have been axed or stalled in just nine months. And because of Donald Trump's attacks, from cancelling permits to repealing the inflation reduction act tax credits, union workers are seeing job offers
evaporate and work sites shutter. A port development project in Salem with hundreds of union jobs under a project labor agreement. Axed a cable manufacturing plant in Somerset that would have created hundreds of union
jobs. Axed 3,000 good jobs from the solar forall program that Trump cut axed. the offshore wind projects up and down the Massachusetts coast, which were going to have thousands of union
workers, putting those workers out there in a new industry. They're all in the crosshairs to be axed. So, so far we have lost nationwide 158,000 clean
energy jobs in just nine months. That is an economic record. Look at that destruction. That's the most destruction that anyone's ever taken to one industry such a brief period of time. That's Trump's record. Union building trades workers are starting to see the unemployment
roles for the first time in over a decade. It is a shameful uh uh situation and Trump's attacks will have a chilling effect on new projects for years to come. Union apprenticeships actually require highquality education programming, but they also required
mentored on the job experience. And with Trump and Republicans shuttering these work sites, apprentices cannot train. So, General President Booker, how are President Trump's attacks on clean energy sector affecting your workers, including your apprentices?
>> It's, you know, it it's the chaos, it's the uncertainty, it's the inability to recruit new members into it. It's the inability to have our current members who are in the system um not be able to graduate the system because they don't have a job to go to. They're going to finish their current job. They're not
going to have their next job. So, it's just this chaos and uncertainty is it's it's it's creating an environment where it's going to be very hard to bring people back into the construction industry at a time where we should be bringing people into registered apprentichip and in the construction industry. >> General President Donnelly, could you
add your perspective to this situation as it's unfolding? No, I I would echo um I would echo the same sentiments from President Booker. You know, the one other piece I guess I would add would be that um you know, we put a lot of time, energy, effort, and resources into
training to do this offshore wind work and uh that all just came to a screeching halt and so now we have a bunch of members with a bunch of credentiing that we don't know if we're going to be able to put back to work in the future. >> Thank you, President Booker. Lyuna runs a world-class apprenticeship program
that includes training on esbestos abatement. Many old buildings were constructed and renovated when asbestos laden products were industry standard, including the White House. Are you aware of any permits or other indications that the
White House that President Trump took any of the appropriate safety steps when Trump demolish the east wing of the White House to protect against asbestos exposure? >> I'm not aware of anything that they would have done to protect. >> So the White House could have exposed
workers and passes by to deadly asbestos. Is that your view? >> They could have. And I can tell you had it been a union workforce, we would have access to that. Um, this administration chose to use a non-un workforce to go do that on a on a union project, one of the
the the first things we teach in our apprentichip is to have your brother or your sister's back. And if you see something, you say something. If something's unsafe, you can stop that work. This isn't a union job site, so we have no access to it. So, I don't know what's going on out there. >> No, thank you. And and those safety standards, they exist for a reason. It's
to protect workers. It's to protect innocent people who may be nearby, even working in the White House from exposure to asbestos. Uh, and those standards just don't disappear on the whim of President Trump. They're there because of all the lessons we learned,
especially because of asbestos workers who died at unbelievably high levels before we actually put protections in place. And that's why I wrote to the contractor who tore down the East Wing to demand answers on whether and why workers were
put at risk for Trump's big donor ballroom. It's just another example of how Trump is the most anti-UN president, anti-safety uh president in history. Uh and that is something that absolutely we have to get
to the bottom of. I've received no answers yet in terms of any asbestos protections, any other safety protections that were put in uh in order to ensure that workers were not unnecessarily exposed to health endangering uh situations. So I thank uh
both of you for your work on these issues. Thank you, Mr. For the record, every merit shop that I visited emphasizes and takes great pride upon their safety record and they're they are subject to the same OSHA regulations as regarding maintaining safety and exposure to asbestous or anything else.
So just for the record, >> no, I agree with you. The question is does the president think he can wave all regulations because it's the White House and not any other property in the United States? And if that was the case, then these workers were exposed. Um, I ask for unanimous consent to enter letters
into the record pertaining to the issues today's discussed from Reach University and the Associated Builders and Contractors. For any senator wishing to ask additional questions for the record, they will be due 5:00 PM Thursday, November the 20th. Thank you for being
here. It's a really good informative panel and again, I think there's a real opportunity for bipartisan work and each of you have contributed to that. So, thank you very much. Committee