Let me good evening everyone. I call this meeting of the township union planning board uh to order. Uh sunshine notice please. Pursuant to the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting stating the time and place was satisfied by the filing of an annual notice with
the local source and star ledger newspapers of general circulation within the township of union and posted on the bulletin board of the township of union municipal building. Roll call, please. Mr. Alexander here. Mr. Cohan here.
Espinosa excused. Mr. Frame here. Mr. Miller here. Miss Perkins here. Mayor Bowser here. Committeewoman Terrell here. Miss Khan here. Miss Calid. Chairman Lei here.
Uh, first on our agenda is the approval of the meeting minutes from the May 22nd meeting. Can I get a motion to approve? Moved by Mr. Miller. Is there a second? Seconded by Mr. Frame. Roll call, please. Okay.
Mr. Alexander, yes. Mr. Cohan, yes. Mr. Frame, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Miss Perkins, yes. Mayor Bowser, yes. Committeewoman Terrell, yes. Miss Khan, yes. Chairman Lei, yes. Uh, forgot. Can
we swear in our engineer, please? Mr. May, can you raise your right hand? You swear the testimony about to give the truth. About to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you. Okay. Next on our agenda is the resolution regarding the municipal lot municipal
lot redevelopment. Uh can I get a motion please? So I'll move moved by Mr. Cohan. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Mrs. Khan. Uh roll call please. Mr. Alexander. Yes. Mr. Cohan. Yes. Mr.
Frame. Yes. Mr. Miller. Yes. Miss Perkins. Abstain. Not present. Mayor Bowser, yes. Committeewoman Terrell, yes. Miss Khan, yes. Chairman Lei, yes.
Uh, the other resolution that we have was uh for application 2025-06 1331 Stson Avenue. Can I get a motion, please? So, moved by Mr. Cohands. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Mr. Miller. Roll
call, please. Mr. Alexander, yes. Mr. Cohan, yes. Mr. Frame, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Miss Perkins, yes. Mayor Bowser, yes. Committeewoman Terrell, yes. Miss Khan, yes. Chairman
Lei, yes. All right. So, under new business, uh, first we have application 2024-09, which is a continuence of 811 Chestnut Street. May the representative please step forward. Good evening, Natasha on behalf of the
applicant um Michael Puka. Um as we were previously here at the May meeting and we had our traffic um expert go ahead and show the site plan and the I know there was issues with the traffic plan, traffic light plan. So we did revise it.
We do have our traffic engineer here today to uh go through the revised plan. We also have our architect and our planner to wrap up this application. Um, again, we are here for 811 Chestnut Street. Uh, we are subdividing the
existing lot into four proposed lots and constructing three two family homes on three of the lots and one of the lots going to be the road and the like the shared parking for all three um homes. If there are other no other further
questions preliminary questions we can go ahead and start with the traffic. So just just to confirm you you are going to call um how many witnesses saying three three um the traffic engineer the engineer and the architect. No traffic engineer uh architect and planner.
Architect and planner. Got it. Okay. Yes. Our engineer has a conflict for tonight and is currently in Newark. Okay. So, would anyone be taking questions on his behalf? Um, we can try to take as many comments
as we can regarding I guess our traffic engineer can address as many as much as he can, but if there's going to be specific comments that questions that we cannot address, we would need I guess to come back at the next hearing to have his testimony. Got it. Okay. All right.
Uh, who is the f first witness who we would like to call? We have our traffic engineer Craig Paraguli. Sorry. Sir, can you uh spell your last name for the record? Sure. It's Craig Paraguay. P E R E G O Y. Uh Mr. Paraguay, uh will
you raise your right hand? Sure. Do you swear the testimony about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes, I do. Thank you. Um, so if if everybody recalls at the last uh meeting I I described how the the traffic signal would operate and how we tie in as that fourth leg of the
traffic signal opposite fairway. There was some question as to, you know, when we actually laid out the traffic signal, would it impact any of the lots, which I think was a fair uh fair uh question. And also, how would it affect the turn lane upstream uh along Chestnut Street? So, what we
did was go back and actually lay out the traffic signal plan and how it's going to how it's going to look and operate. And uh I have it on the screen now. Let me let me zoom in to where I think one of the board members had a concern. You have two lanes going northbound on
Chestnut Street and then it opens up to three and that third lane is sort of a storage lane for the left turn lane at the next signal. And there was some concern would we be eating into that? And I'm happy to report that no, we're not actually uh with just a slight shift of
uh the striping on in the southbound direction. We're able to fit that left turn lane for this property without really changing anything else. So essentially the way that signal operates now, it's going to be exactly the same unless a car is trying to make a left out of our driveway. Then they'll get a
few seconds of green time and then back to the way it was. So what I testified to still holds true. Uh but we've now verified it with this layout. Um, and I think you know those were two those were two good points that were brought up by by your engineer and I
forgot which which uh which board member was asking about that turn lane but um we are able to verify that we can make that fit and I think that was really my homework from the last meeting in terms of uh uh the traffic signal plan. I think the the site plan was changed to
address some county comments. Nothing substantial, nothing uh really different, just uh uh some minimal things. We do actually now have county approval uh for the plan. They'll obviously have to review the traffic signal plan in coordination with uh the township, but that's something those
those finer details of how the wiring goes and all that and the signal plan comes later on uh in the process. But putting together this layout, I think for all the reasons we talked about at the last meeting made sense and and I'm I'm glad it was able to to work pretty successfully.
I'm not sure if there are any other questions beyond that, but that was I have no further questions. That was my marching orders. Sure. All right. We'll go to questions from the board. Uh Mr. Fran, you want to kick off? So, sir, I'm going to call that going east away from the cannon.
Were you putting the left lane in? Uh, sure. Yeah, we'll call the southeast. So, southeast is fine. So, how many lanes do I see there going? Are there three lanes now? Yes, there's two the two the two lanes that exist today are
staying basically as they are. Okay. And then instead of that median being there, that median will get shortened and we'll have a left turn lane. So this way when somebody's waiting to make a left into this into our project, okay, which be very few in between. But when it happens, they won't be blocking traffic. They won't create any issues whatsoever.
So everything will be a left turn lane only. No Uturn. No U-turn. Okay. and then going. So, we're going to go northwest going towards the cannon. Okay. Is zero reduction
on that on those three traffic lanes. Zero. Exactly. Right. Zero. Zero reduction. Yep. If you see this right here, this dash line is where the the striping is today. And this hatch, that striping is there today that we're removing. The double yellow line
matches that perfectly. So there's not not one inch is taken away from that lane. The west gone. And are you removing the cement divider? Yeah, in that section that'll be removed and it'll be pulled back to before that turn
lane starts. And you can see right here that little bullnose. So this is where the divider is today. It's dashed. So you go. So we'll get rid of that. Okay. But not on the northwest side, correct? Not still be. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Was you were you asked me last time about that? Yes, I did. Yes, I remember. So, just as a followup to that, that diagram does indicate Could you enlarge it again? Sure. The the turn lane. Yeah. Yeah. So, you are taking out a portion
of the the new lane that's created for the left turn at Westchester Street on the other side under the bridge. No, we're not. Well, it appears that you are because you got the dark. This is the lane right here. This is the same lane. See, there's three lanes. This is the lane that goes actually What are the
dark stripes, diagonal stripes to the left of the last gray stripe? Yes, those are the the same ones that are there. These two stay. The rest of these lighter gray ones are removed. So, they're strip that's existing striping. Yep. We meet the existing striping
along this side somewhere right in here. Okay. And then I'm sorry, I I was listening, but I didn't hear you say that the adjustment to the traffic signal, will it be a four-way signal now? Yes, four-way signal. So, it will
it will control left turn lanes out of the property to Chestnut Street South. Yes. If you come out of the property and stop on the at this stop bar, it'll call the signal and say somebody's waiting there. Now, if you make the right turn on red, it'll cancel that. So, it'll never give it green. Only if you sit
there long enough knowing then it'll know you want to make a left or go through. Then it'll give a few seconds of green, whatever the minimum we can get away with because the most you're gonna have is one every once in a while maybe a second car. So it doesn't need that much green and we don't want to take away from uh the bus traffic. Sir,
does DOT have a minimum amount of seconds that the light has to be green? DOT for turn lanes it's uh 5 seconds. It's 7 seconds for through movements. This is kind of an odd situation. So if this was a DOT road, they might want it 7 seconds. It's not it's up to the to
township union and Union County. Okay. So we could go to I think 5 seconds would be the most that you would want. All right. Thank you. I have one just question for clarity. You spoke used the word stop bar. Will there be a stop bar? Yes, there'll be a stop. This is this
right here is the stop bar for coming out. And then you see this dash line. That's the area of detection. So that's the little camera that sees the vehicles when they get there. That's where it'll be aimed to see a car. And we'll have it so it's it's called an unlocking situation, meaning when a car calls that
phase, when the signal gets around to it, it's going to give it green, but if that car goes away, it'll cancel it. Uh because you can make a right turn out of here on red and not have ever have to get a green. So we don't we want it to be as to give green as little time as possible because it's such a small
development, it's really not necessary. It just happens to be because of where it is. This is the only way we can get access to it. Sir, who pays for that? The county or your No, I'm sure my client would love it if the county would pay for it, but not pay for it. Your client. Okay. Thank
you. Any other questions from the board? You're stuck with me. I have some questions. Um, and I know you've presented the plan, but I I think it's also important to establish
um the nature of the intersection in in the current state that it is in. So, when we're talking about Chestnut Street, it is a county road. It's designated as a county road. It's also known as County Route 619. Right. Right. Okay. So are you also aware and agree
with me that that road is also deemed as a minor arterial uh functional classification by DOT? Uh yeah, I believe it is. Yeah. And it looks like it's 627. And according to NJ DOT, um minor arterials
are defined by DOT as highways aim to interconnect with and augment the principal arterial highway system. Correct. That sounds correct. that I don't memorize, but yes, it's um and so some of the principal arterial systems
that we can reference to that may involve county Route 619 would be things such as the Parkway, um Route 22, um on either side. Yeah. Uh Morris Avenue, route uh Route 82. Um those are
principal arteries uh that arterials that um have in some ways connection to that county road and that intersection. Correct. Correct. Yes. Okay. Um would you also agree with NJ do that in
urban areas um minor arterial highways quote serve trips of moderate length at a somewhat lower level of travel mobility end quote. Yes. I'm a traffic engineer. We're not allowed to disagree with the NJ DOT. So, yes. Good, good, good, good. And so, would you also agree
with them um in accordance with the roadway design manual that regarding minor arterials, access to a budding property should be minimized to facilitate traffic flow and safety? Yes. They they have an entire statewide access code that that the goal is to
limit the number of driveways. Yes. Got it. So based on the plans that you're presenting today, can you say that the construction of a private road connecting to County Route 619, as we said, a minor arter arterial, thereby
creating a four-way intersection on Fairway and Chestnut, would increase access to a budding property to a minor arterial. It would add one driveway for six homes rather than six driveways for single family homes. So yes, this would this would be if this were a state highway,
DOT would much prefer this than what you have the down the rest of that road, but it it would ultimately increase an access point to uh you know what it the intersection exists today. So we're just adding a fourth leg to the intersection. So it really doesn't even add
technically a new access point because Fairway Drive is already the access point there. So, you know, in terms of semantics, but but DOT's goal is to minimize the number of driveways. We obviously have to take access here. There's no other way to access this property uh other than this location.
So, it it really fits into what DOT's goals are to min one driveway for multiple residences rather than a whole bunch of driveways for But is what is in place now a road or a driveway? Uh it's a a it's really a driveway. I
mean, it's I guess it could technically be considered a private road, but I don't think it's going to have necessarily a name. It's a driveway to access and what's the current width of that driveway? 24 ft. 24 ft. Uh and interior widens out at the intersection of course. And so as you're building out
the um the road that would um officially make it a four-way intersection, what's the width of that private road that you're introducing based on this site plan? It it's 24 feet, you know, interior to the site.
with the curb radi the curb line opening probably on the order of 50 ft. I don't see it dimensioned here but Oh, okay. I I see what you're pointing to. So, you have the 12 plus 12 in the curb opening. Right. Right. So, where where it's defined as a as a drive aisle or road,
it's 24 ft wide, but you need curb radi so to make turns, you know, vehicles be able to turn in and out of there. So, it's wider at the point where it intersects the curve line of chest line. Uh, how many conflict points does the current intersection have?
Well, it's a three-legg intersection. So, this would make it a four-legg intersection. You mean conflict points in terms of So, a conflict conflict point is basically a point in which two or more road users, whether vehicles or pedestrians, may interact with one
another. So, right. All right. So in this case, you have the the left turn into fairway and then coming out of fairway. So that's two and then we add two more on the opposite side. Does that calculation also take into account pedestrians?
Yes, pedestrians are this this signal is designed with pedestrian. Wait, so can you clarify again how many P1 and P2 are the the pedestrian crossing sign? How many conflict points are at the intersection currently? Vehicular conflict points. Conflict
points meaning basically any point in which any road user, whether ve vehicular or pedestrian, may interact with one another. Vehicular or pedestrian. Yes. Well, you have the the left turns.
So, one, two, and then I don't know if there's any pedestrian. There's no pedestrian crossing on this side. So, the pedestrians are only on the driveway side, which makes sense because you want it on the lower volume side. So, there's two now and there'll be, I guess, five if you count the pedestrians,
but all signalized. These are signalized conflict points. So, the pedestrians, they'll get the walk sign when Chestnut has its green. I'll I'll have more questions on the signaling part as as well. So, with this being County Road and with with this intersection
potentially now having three lanes on one side, three um well, three lanes going on the other side, and I I just I I want to also confirm the current flows of traffic that would traverse that intersection. So, number one, would you agree with me that one
source of traffic would come from the residential area uh coming from Fairway Drive? Sure. I just I just drove through that intersection myself. So, yeah. So did I. Yeah. Um in addition to that, would you also agree that another source of
traffic coming from Fairway Drive would not only be from the residential neighborhood, but it will also be drivers taking the exit off of Route 22 east, making the exit into Fairway Drive. Sure. Yeah. Same as today. None of that's different. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
just simply establishing the record in terms of trying to understand the current nature of of how the intersection works. Now, if by any chance that driver from East 22 um does not go into the residential
neighborhood, essentially they really have nowhere else to go but hit that intersection of Chestnut and Fairway. Correct? Yes. Okay. And for that driver as well, if they would
like to um get onto Parkway South, they would take that route of Fairway Drive, hit the intersection, and make a right onto Chestnut, and then as they're driving down, there would be basically an entry point to Parkway South.
Correct. Right. It's just just beyond. Yes. just And would you say that for a driver on East 22 that wants to make it to Parkway South that that was that's probably the shortest and/or fastest way
to get to Parkway South? I I would imagine. So, I'll take your word for it. You probably drive it more than I do. Yes. Okay. Um, additionally, would you also agree with me that there's that if, let's say, um, a driver from 22 would want to access
Parkway North, that they basically can take that same route, just drive down Chestnut a little bit more and make a right onto Parkway North? Yes. Yes. Okay. Um, obviously because this is uh this is a currently a three-way intersection, would you agree that
another source of traffic would come from cars traveling? I think it's southbound. So on on the diagram here, it's basically they're coming from the left to the right. Um, and and basically all those cars coming in that from that
direction, right? So if you're going from left to right from your from the plan that you're presenting us, Yes. towards the parkway. Yeah. Towards the parkway from 22 towards the parkway. Yeah. So, we covered the all the traffic that are coming from Fairway. Now, we're covering all the traffic that's coming from the
left of the screen here. So, there there are several sources of of traffic that would feed into that minor arterial, right? And so, you know, for example, would you be aware that um one of those sources would be um West Chestnut
Street, for example? I it's probably not on P the map here. No, I was just I thought it would be easier since we're talking a little way to zoom out. Yes, sure. I mean, all these traffic patterns that you're describing exist
regardless either way. And another example would be Elmwood Avenue going into Styverson, which Styverson then merges into Chestnut, right? Would you Okay. And then additionally to that there would also be traffic coming from um Stson in the
direction from from the town center union center. Correct. Okay. So when we think about Elwood Avenue and when we think about West Chestnut Street um I do believe that DOT also have them
classified as major collectors. Correct. Uh probably. I haven't looked up their classification but that would make sense. And would you agree with the township's master plan's definition of major collectors? As collectors gather traffic from local roads and connect them to arterial networks, major
collectors are discerned from minor collectors by factors such as higher annual average traffic counts. Yes. Okay. Um, regarding West Chestnut Street, which I cited, I I do believe there are only two
um other arterial networks that they connect to uh that it connects to Chestnut Street and 20 uh Route 22 West is would you agree with that? I'd say that fairway. So So West Chestnut Street, right? Right. one of the major
collectors. We establish that it feeds onto uh Chestnut Street as one of the U minor arterials. The other u arterial uh system would be Route 22 West, right? If they go the opposite direction, they'll eventually West. Um for Elwood Avenue,
the other major collector, they would connect to obviously eventually uh Chestnut Street, one of the minor arterials, but they would also connect on the opposite direction, Morris Avenue. Yes. Eventually if you just drive all the way down. Yeah. Okay. So, we
established another that source of traffic. Would you agree that another source of traffic would come from those who take Parkway exit 138B, which would essentially have them travel down onto Chestnut Street in that
direction northbound towards the intersection of Fairway and Chestnut? Yes. Sometimes they come that way, too. So, yeah. Good. Um, now obviously as just just to state for the obvious record, another source of traffic would come from folks who want to access 22
East, right? Correct. Yeah. And obviously one way would be if um depending on where you are on Chestnut at the intersection, you would take Fairway and from Fairway you can get on to 22 East. Correct? Yes. Okay. Um, yes.
Yeah. Do you know of any other minor or principal arterials that would allow a driver to get on to 22 East? From where? In Union.
Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. I mean, I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I mean, there's other I think intersecting roadways. Michigan Avenue connects to 22. There's there's a few Michigan remind me where Michigan goes down goes into Kennallorth. That's a that's a
pretty busy road that connects to 22. And then there's other I guess they're private roads that lead to the developments. Oh, got it. Got it. Um and then other examples might be like from Morris Avenue for example and and Voxhall Road or something like that,
right? Yeah. To to connect to Route 22. Um, and beyond that, would there be any other minor RTLS that would allow a driver to get onto 22 in Union itself? Just Union itself? I mean, off the top of my head, I can't think of anything,
but I I it's possible. A lot of roads that intersect Route 22. Yeah. So, three or four minor or principal arterials that allow a driver to get onto 22. Um, if there are only three or four minor arterials, I think it would be safe to assume that a fair share of commuters or
drivers who want to access East 22 um would utilize Fairway and Chestnut to get on to 22 East, right? Yeah. Considerable amount. Okay. Um, would you agree that another source of traffic would come to those uh come from those
who want to access West 22? Sure. Right. Yes. Yes. I mean, just to establish the record. So, you know, um would you agree basically um one example is that uh a driver could
go up northbound, hit the intersection, go through the intersection of chest chestnut and Fairway, hit then another intersection. And I do believe it is um West Chestnut and Cyson and Chestnut that three-way intersection after Chestnut and Fairway and then they get
on to West Chestnut and get on to 22 West. Correct. Yes. Yeah. And I do believe there's another Yeah, I do believe there's another way too if you can confirm that they'll hit that intersection but then stay straight on Stson. Hit the intersection of Stson and
Wana. make a right on Rwanda and they could also access 22 West. Correct. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Okay. I'm trying to, you know, drive this in my head. I should pull up Google Maps if we're going to keep going. Now, I just throw I just thrown two intersections in front
of your in front of you very quickly. So, the first intersection that I was referencing to is that first intersection that will be hit after you cross Fairway and Chestnut um which is um West Chestnut, Chest uh Chestnut and
Styver. Would you on the top of your head know how far away that intersection is from the intersection of Fairway and Chestnut? Would it be Yeah. You mean that that the signal that that we were talking about before just off the page here to the left? Yes. that immediate uh
intersection on the left on your screen. Yeah, I don't know exactly. And between 500 and 1,000 feet, I'd say it's not, you know, th this lane, this this lane going to the left of the page drops into that left turn lane for the signal farther down. And then the other
intersection of Stson and Wana is not that farther away too from that that intersection. Correct. If you go left or if you keep going up towards if you keep on going towards Union Center towards Choppies. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And what how how many and that splits. There's a left
turn there and a through. So these three lanes all go off on their own just to the west. Yeah. So the the intersection of Styus and Wana that's not that's pretty close to the intersection that we just talked about, right? Yeah. Yeah. They're probably equally
spaced between Fairway the signal and then that intersection probably about equally spaced. So you would say from the intersection of Styverson and Wana from the intersection of Sti of of Chestnut and Fairway again around 500 to 1,000 ft. Yeah. I mean just ballparking.
I'm just trying to like I said I just drove through it so I'm just trying to kind of ballpark it but yeah. Okay. Um would you also agree with me that another source of traffic would come from those who would want to drop off and pick up their children from Connecticut Farm School? Are you
familiar with Connecticut Farm School? No, but no, but I'll take your word that that's obviously another source of traffic. There's there's a lot of traffic that goes through the intersection. They're going all different places. I understand. Yeah. Just just to say for the record, that's a school that's right smack dab on on
the intersection of of uh Stson and Wana. So, yeah. Okay. So, I I know you're not aware about the school itself. Um and I I mean would you agree with me that then a school like that
would generate pedestrian traffic and vehicular traffic? Sure. Okay. Um, one thing that I notice also on the property as it stands that can you confirm since you travel through
there today um that there is a guide rail installed abuing the property extending all the way to the um overpass. Is that what it called? The overpass for Route 22. Yeah. I don't know the how the extent of it, but yeah,
there's a guide rail in that area. And then I do believe if you can confirm for the record that there are also guide rails also installed between Buchanan and Globe as you are traveling northbound to the intersection. Correct.
Yes. Okay. And I just not to be obvious here but guy rails are essentially there to ensure that drivers are not going to veer off and you know hit homes or hit sensitive structures. Correct. Yes. So
you put a guide rail to to essentially guide a errant vehicle back onto the road such that they don't hit an obstruction that they can't avoid if they lose control. So it depends on the distance to the obstruction whether a guide rail is put in or not. Right. and and and so I mean it would be fair to to
say that installing a guide rail in itself is a very thoughtful uh decision with regards to um having uh engineering judgment in terms of deeming it necessary to have a guide rail. Yes,
there's very specific guide rail criteria. It's a book about this thick of where you can and can't put guide rail. So overall um based on the current nature of the um the intersection would you agree
that it is an intersection a fairway and chestnut that is heavily utilized that is complex that serves as an important artery to 22 the parkway union center five points connected farm schools other local hubs and it also has
several guide rails in it Would you say that's pretty a complicated um intersection to to begin with? I don't know if I'd say complicated, but it's certainly a busy and important intersection, which was what drove our design to make sure that what we're doing doesn't have any impact to all
that traffic we just discussed. Okay. All right. All right. Um thank you for presenting the plan and now I'm going to go a little bit more in into what you propose for for the traffic plan here. um with with regards to redesigning the
proposed intersection um and as well as providing a a new traffic signaling system. Uh was a capacity analysis conducted? Not at this time, not yet because I we're not we generate such a tiny bit of traffic, but we're going to
want to make sure that this signal I'm sure at one point it was coordinated with the next signal. Those things fall out of sync. So that's going to be something that I'm sure the county is going to require. If not, then you're going to require that we look at that to make sure they match up. But what we're doing here, you know, your your job is to make sure that we're not going to
change impact that and this is such a small amount of traffic and designed to not impact any of those through movements that it would this particular project wouldn't have an impact. So by doing this and improving the signal, you're going to get it reynced up and rettimed properly based on what's out
there now. So that's another benefit to to this happening. But a capacity analysis has not been conducted yet. No. And wouldn't DOT want a capacity analysis done to ensure that that becomes an important consideration when
you're redesigning intersections and putting new traffic signing systems in? Well, we don't need to. This has no involvement with DOT, but at this stage, not necessarily. This this would just be reviewed geometrically at this point. the capacity analysis and optimizing the
signal timing and all comes farther down the road than design. But eventually, wouldn't this be approved by DOT? No, D has no jurisdiction here. Well, Mr. Paraggo, didn't you say on our last meeting and and I pulled it from the minutes here at some point, Union County
had enough of dealing with traffic signals and pushed it to m municipalities and the DOT? Yes. So, county roads. So, now the DOT shouldn't be involved. No, not at this one. This is not on a on a has nothing. There's no state highway here. So Union County is
going to look at this, but they're going to defer a lot of the review to to Union. They don't want to own the traffic signals. Sir, I'm confused. So when you said that dealing with traffic signals and push it to the municipalities and the DOT, now you're
saying that the DOT really shouldn't really care about it. No, not this intersection. No, DOT doesn't care about this one. But there's thousands of traffic signals in Union County. Some of them have to do with DOT. I'm also confused as well because part I know that this would have to go through the
county and the county has their own land development standards and they say that subject to the that an installation of a traffic signal that affects a county road is quote subject to the policy and procedure of the New Jersey Department of Transportation Bureau of Traffic
Engineers for authorization to design, install, and operate. So, can you clarify on on where's this discrepancy where the county is saying that DOT needs to be involved? Your last testimony says that DOT needs to be involved, but now you are saying that
DOT doesn't need to be involved. First, I never said that DOT needs to be involved at this traffic signal. And that that language DO DO's traffic signal design criteria have been adopted by several counties, municipalities, probably even unions as refer to the DOT design. That's what that means. NJ DOT
will not take one look at this. Even though even though that the county land devel land development standards say that DOT has to authorize the design and installation of operation of a new
traffic signaling. Yeah, that's not the case. Many maybe 20 years ago, 25 years ago, DOT had to issue a letter authorizing you to design a traffic signal, but they they got rid of that. I would say 2003 2004 that went away. So DOT does not have any involvement with
local or county signals. Um are you also aware that counties create, adopt and amend transportation master plans? Yes. Are you aware of Union County's master plan for transportation? I'm sure I've looked at it before. Not in the context of something so minor like this,
but yes. Um, I do believe citing from the county master plan that the North Jersey Regional Transportation Model forecasts Chestnut Street as one of the top five largest projected increases in daily truck volume in the county by 2040. So my question is, would that have
an effect on the capacity of the intersection of Fairway and Chestnut? Yeah, sure. How would a fully actuated signaling system deal with that? the same way that this is a fully actuated signal and will continue to be. It responds to the volume of traffic.
There's the little cameras up in there on the mast arms read if it needs to give you the left turn arrow or not. Not that wouldn't that wouldn't change. But like I said, because we're touching this signal now, we're going to optimize it and bring it up to current standards. The last time somebody did anything here, who knows when that was, so it's
it'll get a little bit better. Okay. Um, so I think we've established here that there is significant, you know, there potentially could be significant pedestrian traffic with the school nearby. Um, how would phasings for
pedestrians uh be managed at that at that intersection of what you proposed here? Yeah, the only pedestrian crossing would be across our driveway. So they would have the walk signal as long as Chestnut is green. The through movements when
there's no conflicts. There's there's no crosswalk across Chestnut Street to get to Fairway Drive. Doesn't look like it. There is a sidewalk along Fairway. There is on this side. Yeah, I see it. No, there's no crosswalk.
Okay. Thank you. And there's no pedestrian signals either. This this this signal pole is existing. There's no pedestrian buttons or anything. So, are you saying there's no pedestrian signaling? There's no um ability to um um initiate a pedestrian
call on the intersection at all. Not to cross Chestnut. No, not to cross Chestnut. Right. The only pedestrian crossing would be crossing the proposed driveway. But I would think that would be an issue for the local police department and
traffic control as opposed to egress from your prop the applicant's property. Right. Yeah. There there's a reason which when this was designed that they didn't put pedestrian crossing across chestnuts. So it would remain to not be there.
That would have a pretty big impact on traffic because that's a long crossing. So, you'd have to have a fairly long walk and flashing don't walk for that. I would think that's probably part of the reason why. And I don't know if there's that much there probably isn't that much pedestrian demand across that.
So, let's say if you are a family from the from the Fairway Drive area, that means there would not necessarily be any opport a safe route essentially for them to walk from that neighborhood to Connecticut Farm School. Can you site
any path whatsoever that would be a safe way for them to walk from the Fairway Drive neighborhood to the school? I I wouldn't have looked at that. That has nothing to do with this project. It's whatever it is today is the same. Exactly. There's no No, we're not
changing the pedestrian patterns here. So, they're staying the same. The only difference is when you're walking on the sidewalk on the north side of Chestnut Street, now you walk across a driveway to six units. That's it. Um my next question pertains to signal
coordination and you have here a fully actuated signaling system here. And according to the Institute of Traportation Engineers, they say that traffic signals quote traffic signals within a half mile of one another along a major route in a network of
intersecting major routes should be coordinated with interconnected controller units. So we've established the first intersection of Fairway and Chestnut and the second um intersection of Styson and Wana. Now when we are thinking about other intersections that
are a half mile distance from the intersection, are you aware of any others a half mile from this from the intersection of of Chestnut and Fairway? Not that I can think of that that next signal to off the left of the page here is the closest one that would be the
most critical to coordinate with the two other ones, right? The basically the two that I just mentioned, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Whatever whatever there's a coordination pattern there now that like I said is probably fallen out of date and out of sync that will get re timed.
The signal will get rettimed that that off those offsets will get optimized because we're changing the signal. So, you wouldn't be aware that there would be other intersections such as West Chestnut and Caldwell that's within a half mile. You wouldn't be aware that
there's another signaled intersection of Morris and Styusent that's within a half mile. You wouldn't be aware of another signaled intersection of Park View and Chestnut that's within a half mile. As if they're all coordinated. No, I don't I don't know. They exist. They will.
They if they are, they'll be optimized. Well, what do you mean by optimized? The the idea is you want to get it so the main direction when it turns green they get greens through all of them so you keep that progression of traffic flow and we have we we do that there's software that that that does that and
optimizes the offsets of those intersections that was done whenever the last signal in this system was touched but over the years traffic volumes change a lot of times like you said they they want them interconnected they just do it with a stopwatch and the timing gets off. So whenever we come in and
touch a new signal, we would have to coordinate that. And if this is a a corridor that's highly coordinated, there's ways now you don't have to wire them together. There's radio signals that'll keep them keep them tied together. So all that stuff would be looked at and might happen only if we do this project. If not, it's going to stay
the way it is. But currently, right now, the plan does not call for signal coordination based on what it recommends. Basically, a network of intersecting major routes should be coordinated with interconnected controller units. Well,
we haven't de we haven't developed the signal timing plan yet, but it it like I said, we have to do that capacity analysis and look at that coordination when we go into the the nitty-gritty design of that. And is that the intention? It doesn't need anything physical necessarily. It's
just the timing. It's in the in the controller box that's there. You change the timing. And is that the intention to do that coordination with all the five intersections that I stated? If if they are now, then yes, we whatever whatever the county or whoever did put this signal system in
coordinated, we would update that coordination. No question. I don't know if those specific intersections are all part of it. Mhm. Now, one difficulty of coordination, if there's obviously any kind of human factor into this, and we talked about
how Connecticut Farm School um is located on the intersection of Styverson and Wana, right? Um from my recollection, we have a school board member here, um that there's a crossing guard on Ston and Wana. Obviously, there
is no way a a fully actuated signaling system could coordinate with a crossing guard. No, no, no. So, for that that that 15 minutes a day, maybe it gets out of whack, but that's the idea of the coordination is for the major through movement right now. Um, things can
change at a par parallel parking, you know, there's a lot of factors, but you you do the best that you possibly can. Now, would you say like the drop offs in the morning would basically coincide with morning commuter traffic as well, right? Yeah, it's in that time. So,
there is potential for significant traffic to accumulate in in that intersection. And so if what is the remedy if if a fully actuated signaling cannot coordinate with Styus and Moana with all this
traffic but as well with no ability to coordinate. Could that result in if this project doesn't get approved then there will be no change in the coordination. If this does then that'll all be looked at. That's what that's my point be because we're touching the signal and like I said what we're doing is not
really impacting all those traffic all that traffic coming from all those directions still going to be the same but now we're getting a we're going to be required by the county and I'm sure by the township to give that all a fresh look and make sure that we optimize the signal timing optimize those offsets. So
this that's a side benefit that I hadn't even thought of of this project that and the fact that any development on this property has to do this. There's no other way to get in or out of this property here. We're talking about six units. So, it's such you couldn't think of a smaller thing. I mean, we could put
a a quick check there that would really impact this intersection, generate a lot more traffic. So, this is actually perfect. It's not developer spending a lot of money. That's not part of the approved zoning designation for that area. It's an RB zone. So, Sure. But, well, but it's a
signalized access. They'd come in for a use variance if they could, you I mean it this this is really a developer spending a lot of money to upgrade a signal for a very minimal impact to that signal and the fringe benefit is it's all going to
get a fresh look and get its up timing updated and so on and so forth. Okay. Now I want to go to some of the details that you have with regards to redesigning the intersection and and I know Mr. Fra and Mr. Cohan and and Mrs.
Perkins touched a little bit of this. Um, when you introduce that left turn only lane on Chestnut into the private road, you are removing essentially a painted
island and a curbed island uh to to make space for that 10 ft wide left turn only lane. Right. Yes. Correct. Okay. And I would assume that there would be a
considerable purpose of why islands are there in the first place. You know, like would you agree that islands are there to help, you know, separate the potential of conflicts or to control the conflicts of the angle of conflicts of
in of cars turning from left and and and right and things of that nature? Not necessarily. Usually the islands are divi you put a divided island to keep side streets and driveways from being able to make lefts in and out. Sorry. Can you clarify that a little bit? Just if if if I'm if I want to put
a driveway on Chestnut Street down the road and there's there's an island there, my driveway has to be right turn in, right turn out only. So that's that's a bigger impact of the island. Okay. A car I mean it's a little concrete island. It's not stopping a car from hopping over it and going to the
other side. So very interesting. Can would you agree with with the NJT uh roadway design manual that also states that islands are there for the separation of conflicts
and to control the angle of conflict? That's why I asked my question. Sure. Yeah. And would you agree that it could also be used for traffic calming and speed monitoring purposes, regulation of traffic, an indication of proper use of the intersection?
um protection of turning and crossing of vehicles. Yeah, those are the things that I mentioned when I said about a a driveway down the road. Now, are you aware that by doing this you are also displacing a do not block intersection sign and a no left U-turn sign at that
curved island? Yes. Where uh where would the signs be re would the signs be relocated? Um, yeah. I mean, you you we'd have to look at that. It could either be up on the mast arm, the no U-turn sign, or it
could just be farther back where the island still exists. It would be up to the county and the town's preference how critical that is. Okay. Um, Stephen, can I ask a question? Sure.
With regard to the left turn, so today you can't make that a lefthand turn, right? So what was there previously? You couldn't make that turn. You had to go all the way around the left into our site. Yeah. Right now, I mean, the site's not developed, but there's Right.
But before it was, and you couldn't make that turn, so anybody who needed to go to that space had to go all the way around. So my question is, is it necessary to have that left-hand turn? I don't know. Well, I believe your police department asked for it, but I don't know that there's anything restricting
somebody making that left. The difference is they have they're going to be yielding to the oncoming traffic and blocking traffic on Chestnut whereas we're making it so they're out of the way. Is there a sign there? Yeah. Trying to picture it. Yeah. So it's not possible.
You're saying that the you you said the police are requiring you to put that there. They asked for the term. Yes. Can can I just and rightfully so. Sorry. Can I just interrupt? According to the police report that re we received it says additionally the intersection should be reconfigured to allow left
turns in both directions on test street. Okay. Yeah. So that's the reason why we went and put the left turn signal. Left lane turn, sorry. Also, just one confirmation. Um, would the guide rails abuing the applicant's
property be displaced as well as a result of this plan? Uh, they'd be reevaluated because we're regrading the property and changing it. Some of those guide rails might be there because of a critical slope where meaning like a car couldn't recover off of the the slope. As we change that, it may change the
need for the guide rail. Like I said, there's an evaluation that very specific. You establish a clear zone, there's obstructions, critical slopes, and there's a length of need. It's it's it's overly complicated, believe me. Um, and I do believe that there are two
school crossing signs abudding the applicant's property. Um, are those being displaced as well? Uh, they'd be replaced if they're in the driveway location. No, no, no. It's it's not on the driveway location. It's Oh, no. They would stay. Okay.
All right. Uh, those are my questions. Are there any other questions from board members? Yes, sir. Yep. Yes. So, when when a when a vehicle's detected here, this this left turn gets the the green arrow and pretty much all the time, right? It's it's
pretty busy left turn. So, if there's a car here, they'll also get the green at the same time for just a few seconds and then the through traffic will go. Sir, I hate to keep you there. too much longer. Um, it's a practical question
and I I assume that you and the developers have already thought through this, but uh, if a family wanted to walk their children to Connecticut Farm School, uh, because that would be the closest, uh, elementary school, would there be a safe way for them to do
that, walking out of this driveway and cross from this development? Yeah, I'd have to look at what's up. I mean, as I think of it, you know, it dawned on me that, you know, these are big enough for families and children. You said there's a crossing guard there. They're crossing chestnut when they when
they get up to Connecticut Farms to get into the building. Yes. But from this place and you we've said that there's no crosswalk to get across to the sidewalk. How do they get safe? How does a family get safely walking children? It's not that far to school. That school it's
worth thinking about. I I don't I don't expect you to have the answer now, but you know, as you planned as this has been planned. That's a practical thought. I mean, there are several homes on this side of there's an unobstructed sidewalk from this property all the way up to the
corner of Lewana. Okay. And how do they get over to that sidewalk? That's they don't need to get overwhel. Thank you. That's my clarity for me. Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. And I also just want to note um since we resubmitted these plans uh prior to this hearing um we have
gotten an updated fire report and updated comments from Collers and we have addressed all their concerns. So I just want to address that as well. The school is on the same side of the road as Yeah. So they wouldn't need to cross.
They just walk up the sidewalk. Yeah. driven by that so many times and I never looked over and saw it was a screen there. Actually, I had one more question with regards to I think you said county county approval on the plan.
When you mean county, who who from the county, the engineering department? We we have received um from the county planning uh department. We got the county approval already. County approval came in June 18th. June 18th.
Okay. All right. So, planning. Yeah. Which is the stage we're at now. When it gets to that nitty-gritty design, that's when the engineering department will Right. Okay. Any other questions from board members? Okay. Questions from the public?
You can come over here so he can stay out by the mic. Tempestuous. So, this is just business. Strictly business. Okay. I actually live in the Fairway Drive section. David Weissber just been there a long time. What else
do you need to know? The address. Name and address. My name is David Weiss. I'm called a lot of things, but I'll answer to Dave. My address is 990 Tin Kettle Turn in Union in the Fairway Drive section. And at the risk of sounding tempestuous, it's completely about
capacity. And to to palpably ignore what goes on capacity-wise at that intersection is foolhardy. For example, when people come off Fairway Drive, that left turn backs up and completely would block then the left turn into your driveway. Not to mention, I'm sorry, is
there a question? the well the question is yeah I don't know how that would then be addressed it's it's I don't the question is how can you ignore the capacity of the traffic because the traffic is miserable especially when the schools let out so if you're not planning to do a traffic study let him answer the question we're not ignoring
the we're making sure that what we're putting here doesn't change the capacity but you said whatever is happening now will continue to happen if this project doesn't come in if this project comes in because we're modifying the signal we'll get a chance to make it a little bit better with With all due respect, modifying the signal does not actually
correct the situation if you've actually lived it for 45 years. So, I'm not suggesting we're going to correct everything. Well, I understand that, but it would actually correct nothing. No, no, that's okay. We We got a moment here. We're having a moment. Okay, I'll ask it in the form of a question. Just
like the game of game of Jeopardy. There you go. Well, you answer the question. The answer in the form of a question because So, my question is this. If this rearranging of the timing doesn't solve the problem and it only exacerbates the problem, how would we then go about
alleviating the problem in the future? Well, it won't solve all the problems. I can promise you that. And it's but it's not going to exacerbate it. It's that's what I'm saying. What we're doing is we're none of our vehicles are going to be blocking that through traffic or creating any issues here. But we are going to optimize the signal timing for
today's current traffic volumes based. Is it going to fix all the problems? No. But based upon a based upon a capacity study. Yes. Oh, yes. Absolutely. We're gonna have to to do that to figure out how the signal needs to be a 24-hour. So, it would not be unreasonable then to
request uh a little bit of a delay while a capacity study was completed. No. Okay. It's a question. This is a question. This this applicant is going to invest several hundred,000 into upgrading this intersection. And there's design that goes into it
that costs a lot of money, too. And if this board isn't going to approve his project, why would he waste that money? Understood. Okay. At the moment, I have no questions. Welcome back. Hi, thank you. Um, Nad Ricket, 692 Rosener Drive. I also live
in the Fairway um area and just need to clarify some questions. I have some clarification questions for you. For example, did you say that you'll be removing that median that's currently there only for this little stretch for this left turn lane? Okay. Were you
aware that that is the median that people do use coming out of fairway as a crosswalk to get across? Were you aware of that? Cuz I think you did testify that said that there was no crosswalk there. Yeah, there's no crosswalk there. I mean people may walk across there but
there's no crosswalk or pedestrians in this. Okay. So do you agree by removing that median now you completely remove any form of access from people coming out of Fairway to get across especially those families who have children coming
out of Fairway? Do you agree by removing that medium you're taking away that safe space for them to try to get across? Well, on this side, but on the other side, the median stays and that left turn lane is going to be so infrequently occupied. It'll be a safe space, too.
Again, the question I don't think I I heard your your answer. That median that you are taking away, that little island, like I said, that was a safe space for families that's coming out of the Fairway area to go across to to walk their kids to Connecticut Farms or
whatever the case is. Do you agree by removing that medium you are taking away the safe space for pedestrians to cross? I I don't believe that medium was designed to be a safe space for pedestrian cross to cross. And if it's being used that way then it's unsafe. So that makes this even a better plan
because it's removing people from doing something unsafe. That is a very narrow median. That's not meant to be a pedestrian. It's not that narrow. It it's actually not that narrow. Okay. Next question. Um you also testified several times that this project is such a small project. So therefore, why go
through the process of adding the lights? It because of where the property is. There's no other place we could put our driveway. We we thought about trying to put the driveway outside of this signal and the county and the township said, "No way. This is the way the only way we
can do it." Is there a way? My client would rather not have to go through the expense of upgrading this signal, but it's the only way that this property could be developed. Would the residents in that property just be able to follow the same, let's say, traffic pattern if they're leaving this particular property, they're just
making a right onto uh Chestnut Street and going wherever, would that was that a question or maybe a thought as to as opposed to going through this entire process, how about the residents there follow the same traffic pattern? Was that something that was considered?
We Yeah, we considered every possible option to not have to do the signal. It's expensive. Okay, then there isn't one. Then why didn't that option of them following the same like traffic pattern that's already there, why wasn't that chosen as opposed to doing the um
traffic signal? Because the county and the township told us this is the only way to do it. Address that. Sorry. The applicant has been working with the township for a long time on these plans before prior to coming to the board and we have considered all options. It's just we
were going based off of the recommendations from the township engineer how to make it work most efficiently. Okay. Now, do you agree that adding this light will now add additional commute time and traffic for let's say the hundreds of commuters that
travel on this road just to have a traffic light for 20 to maybe 30 some odd people that's not using it quite often. Do you agree that that's going to add more commute time especially during peak hours? Infantescently barely at all. Only if somebody wants to make a left in or a left out, will it take just
a few seconds away from the overall signal and then it'll be back to normal operation. It's only six units. The the peak hour traffic, the most coming out in the morning is two trips. So once every half an hour, you're going to lose a few seconds. Was the traffic won't be
noticeable. Was a traffic study done with the the current flow of traffic in that area right now? Yeah, that's what we were just discussing. That's how we're going to develop the timing and optimize it by doing that traffic signal. We're getting 24-hour traffic volume data because you need to that the
signal is timed differently at different times a day and we need to know where those breakdowns are to make sure we optimize it. Right. But a capacity study wasn't done yet. Correct. No. Okay. So, going back to where you're saying you're going to make that that lane a turning lane, the traffic that's
coming off of um Stif Stinson Avenue going onto Chestnut, those are already two lanes that's there, right? And now you will will those lanes now be narrow just to add that third lane there? Yeah, the right the rightmost curb lane will
be a foot and a half narrower. Yes. It's extra wide. Now, I have a lot of questions. I'm just trying to like go through so I'm not repetitive. All right. I'm done with my questions. I have more statements towards the end when it's public comment. Thank you.
Thank you. All right. Uh would you like to call your next witness? Yes. Okay. I will be calling our our architect, sorry, Chris Jucknik. [Music]
Sir, can you spell your last name for the record? It's J U C H N I K Christopher. Sir, would you raise your right hand? And do you swear the testimony about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. Can you please provide your credentials
to the board so you can get become this announcement? I graduated from uh Pratt Institute with a bachelor of architecture in 1988. I became a registered architect in the state of New Jersey and New York in 1994. Um and my license are my license is covered in both states
and I've appeared between many many many boards not in union a little bit but uh but have been in u many many many times. Thank you. Does the board accept him as a uh board stipulates? Thank you. Thank you. Can you take us through the floor plans, please? Yep. Um so you should
have B1 um which is up on the screen right now, which shows our typical ground floor plan. Typical meaning that it's the same for it's three houses, two two three two family houses. That's how we get to six units, not six houses, but three two family homes. Um on the ground
floor, um we have a double garage off to the right in this particular plan. Um on next to that we have a wreck room, a study, uh a uh summer kitchen, a laundry area, and the ut bath and a utility area. Then we have the staircase that
brings you up from this ground level directly up to the second floor level um through the staircase that's here. Um it is directly interconnected. Um there are no other entrances on that ground floor from the outside other than the garage
doors themselves. Um, as you come up the stairs from either the ground floor or you come up the stairs on from the outside the exterior, you have a wide um, landing upstairs allowing you to enter into one door that brings you into the second floor apartment or you go to
the left and get into a staircase that brings you up to that third floor apartment. U, we have the entrances separated on the outside of the building um, so that we do not have to sprinkler the building. I think there were some comments earlier that came from um one of the departments. I'm not sure which
one it is. Um but if you have your uh entrances outside on the exterior um the IRC U 2021 New Jersey edition does not require a sprinkler system in the building as long as all the fire ratings are maintained throughout the building
which if this is built we of course would do that. Um and this is very typical of of many many many homes that we uh design and are are constructed. Um, once you get upstairs, again, either from the from downstairs or you come up the stairs into the main unit, you have an open living room, dining room
combination. Um, then you have three bedrooms off to the side. Um, you have a common bath. Uh, then outside the two the other bedrooms. And then we have the master bedroom uh suite uh up in the in the right hand corner, upper right hand
corner. Uh, we also are um um well, I'll go I'll go to the second floor plan on this. Oh, I'm sorry. We have a uh we have a deck shown coming off of that off off of the same uh second floor level. On our next sheet, which is B2, we have
the typical third floor plan, which again is is typical, we're calling it typical for all three homes. Uh and again, it's the same uh mirror image of the plans downstairs where we have the living, dining room, kitchen. Um we are also um suggesting a deck or proposing a
deck on the rear. Uh then we have our um three bedrooms along with a master bedroom suite off to the right again. Uh then we have our front elevation. Um we did kind of drive around the neighborhood. Um off to the side uh there's that little development there. It's a mixed bag of of of different
types of designs. Couple different uh time frames. Uh we actually designed for um for the owner of this property. Uh their house off to the side. Uh it's like a like a gray blue house there. Uh the siding that's the same kind of siding we would propose for this building where we do have the siding
which are your horizontal lines here. Uh that would be sort of a hardy plank uh board as a as a very nice architectural feature. Then the rest of the front would be brick uh along with some accents uh on this on this little projected window here u which is like a a larger bay that comes out gives the
building a little bit of a 3D effect. uh coming around the side. Uh it's just going to be hardy plank siding with the b the bottom level uh would be uh just plaster over the block. The block would be up to the first the second level and the rest of it will be frame. Uh you can
see these the profile of the decks that we're proposing on the rear uh on this and then um here uh we can see the actual decks themselves. Uh and then um uh that's pretty much it. Uh, as I mentioned, we're very cognizant. We do a lot of drawings and a lot of urban area,
more urban areas in here. And I know one of the biggest concerns is having direct connectivity between the ground floor. We usually call it the the owner's unit, which is the ground floor and that second floor unit. So, there's direct connectivity and no other access other than from inside the unit to try to to
dissuade people from trying to make illegal apartments. Thank you. And and that's basically the building. Can you um please describe how you got how we're complying with the energy conservation ordinance? Uh yes. So we are required a f federalated program which is called the resch check. Uh we have to run the
numbers on these. Uh it basically nowadays 2x it has to be 2x6 construction on the outside walls which allows us to put a certain amount of insulation inside of it. Um and then we also usually have to put insulation around the outside. The the atticss are insulated uh about twice as much as
normal houses are. these that used to be uh insulated, how they used to be insulated, excuse me. Uh and also we'll be using LED lighting throughout. Um so all all of the materials are compliant and once you pass that res check, uh the building is pretty uh energy compliant and we have no problem complying with
Collier's report or any other comments the fire department has or anything. You should be fine with all of that. Perfect. No further comments, questions. Okay, we'll now go questions from board. if um if I can kick off some of the questions here um and I'll defer to other board members. So you have read
the engineers review letter right and um yes and and just confirming comma 3.1 of the engineers review letter states the ground floor is shared by the families living on the second and third floors for garage parking recreation laundry and summer kitchen purposes. That's
correct. I'm sorry. Yeah. Um, no. The the so the ground floor is only shared by the second floor. I actually didn't realize. I must have read that a little bit too quickly. Uh, the ground floor is only interconnected between the ground and the second floor.
The third floor has a separate entrance and has nothing to do to communicate with the upper level with the lower level, excuse me. Okay. Because the second floor is the only floor that would have basically access to to that ground floor
without needing to go outside. That is correct. Okay. All right. Um, thank you for that clarification. Um, so based on on your plans, um, in that ground floor area, in addition to that laundry, the quoteunquote summer kitchen, study, and
wreck room, you you have also a full bathroom, right? That is correct. Yes. Okay. And that full bathroom consists like a toilet, bathtub, shower, sink, etc. Right. That is correct. Okay. So, it is a full bathroom. Okay. Um, just
out of curiosity, what was the intention of building a full bathroom downstairs when there are two full bathrooms on the second floor? Um, it's just something that the that my client wanted to have. Um, again, we designed it with the the thought of having the full
interconnectivity between the two and no access from the outside. Um, it's convenient. Um, you do have, you know, rather than going upstairs if you're having a party or something, people are downstairs, you could use that. Um, you know, it's just it's it's convenience.
Uh, I don't know if my client if if again if it's something that the board uh seems that it might be an issue, we could easily revise it to a half bath. I believe so. I don't think there would be an issue, but I think it's more of a convenience, especially since we went kind of out of our way to just to make sure that there was no way to really
convert this into another apartment. The applicant is okay with changing it to half bath if that's a problem for the board. Okay. Um on the what is a summer kitchen? Uh it's just a kitchen that you It's another word for a kitchen that you can use
downstairs. So lower levels are typically the the the coolest part of a home. So this is almost designed like a basement even though it's not in the ground. Um so usually you cook downstairs because heat heat rises. Um so it's just another convenience again if you're having because you have a
large recreck room downstairs. So, you have a formal dining room upstairs, but you have kind of like, in other words, if a guy wanted to create a man cave down here and he wanted to do his wings and all the other things like that. Uh, it's things that we've had in our designs, a feature we've had in our some of our designs. Our client saw it and he
liked it. Before the meeting, I said to him, I said, "Listen, not sure what the temperature would be with the board." I asked him, I said, "If listen, if there's any kind of issue there, we could convert that maybe from a summer kitchen, quote unquote, to maybe just putting a sink and a and a refrigerate down there so you have at least that ability to have drinks and and and a
sink down there." So, he's he's aware of the possible concern and we could easily if it was it would put into the into resolution, we'd easily change the design. And this is more of a question maybe for either for an engineer or attorney. There's there's no legal definition of a summer kitchen in any of
our ordinances or statutes, right? Not that I'm aware of. Yeah. Okay. So, it's just a kitchen essentially. Yeah. I mean, we use the word summer because we already have the main kitchen upstairs. It's just I would say I'll be honest with I'm going to be honest with you. Usually there with the summer kitchen, there's this patio door that goes out to
the back back, but we had had eliminated it from this draw from our drawing. So, you're right. We should have probably just called it a kitchen. But because this way you can come in and outside from the outside while you're grilling and doing whatever. But in this case, we're not going to have that because we're not having any access to the outside. So, it's a it's a secondary
kitchen. And just rec just reconfirm what you're saying um with regards to a door that leads to the outside. There is no door um in in the ground floor that leads directly outside. There is none. There is none. Okay. Yeah. Mr. Chairman,
yes. I could I just just pointed for clarification because I'm I'm confused by who who can use the garage. Um typically in these units it's usually the owner which we call the ground floor and the second floor the owner's unit
the garage itself. Uh and then of course there site plan up but there are two spaces also in the driveway. So, if if the owner on the first I'm getting a little feedback here, but if the owner on the first or the the owner's unit, so
the ground level and the first level is the only one who can use the garage and there's driveway space for the other. So, every time that the ground level would want to back out, they have to ask the second floor folks to move their car. Well, I might have misspoke
when I said that they they cannot use it. It would be an arrangement that would be made between the building because obviously the garage doors are accessible. If the owner wished to share it, maybe they do a, you know, one inside, one outside, one inside outside. I've seen that happen also. So, how they use that, I'm not 100% sure. There is no
access from the third floor down to the garage, but certainly you could park in the garage and then use the stair. I I think that was some of the confusion because I figured there'd be a shared situation and then what'll happen here is that if they do share the garage then they both have access to the wreck room
and the summer kitchen and then I'm not sure where the laundry would be for the second floor. We have a a laundry Oh, they have on the sorry on the I'm sorry the third floor. We have a laundry on the third floor. Um, next to between the the kitchen and
the closet. There is a laundry there. I'm sorry. It's not labeled. I apologize. But there is a laundry up there. There is a laundry room. Yes. Yes, there is one between the kitchen and the closet in this area here. Kitchen, the looks like a bathroom here. I'm sorry. Is it I should have zoomed
this in, but it's right here. Side by side. Okay. Um yeah, I'd be I'd be concerned about that arrangement as far as um cars being shuffled around and and access and um it's it's unfortunately there's really
no other way to to really design you know other I mean even if we had a sliding door in this and and we didn't have a summer kitchen or a full bath there's really no I mean this is typical of two family homes they we have the two-car garage interior and then two on the outside uh and then it's up to the
the landlord to either you know to to uh you know make deals with with the with the tenants I guess but it's a typical I mean I don't know how else you would design a two family home without this situation I' I've just never seen a two family home designed this way uh usually
there's a second they have separate garages separate entrances as opposed to one person has to enter from the outside one person can enter from the inside I've never seen it before I'm not saying that doesn't exist I'm sure it does um I just um am concerned with conflict just
just from experience we probably designed 200 of these just this year alone again and you know I'm not sure if it's new I don't think it's new to union but if you went around a corner you usually have two car garages I mean I mean the only other way what would you do to separate the garages on
either side of the house Mr. Yes, thank you. Uh, so I I heard you say something in the last few minutes that um gives me some new insight. I guess my impression when I reviewed the application was this is three two family
homes and I thought there would be six owners. We're saying there will only be three deed owners of the the there will be a an owner of each building and the owner will then have the opportunity to rent the second unit. I'm assuming so. Yeah. That's that's the
intent. Correct. Okay. All right. That Thank you. Um did you have a question? Yes, I do. Yeah. Uh practically speaking, there's no elevator in this uh twostory
building. No. No. So that um a handicapped person could not uh access any of these stairs to get to any of these apartments. Would that be true, sir? Um, yeah. I mean, it's a two family home. I mean, if if a person's antic. I
mean, we have actually we have a ground floor that's at ground level. Um, so is that not the summer kitchen where the refrigerator is going to be? What was that? Can't live in there. Person can't. No, no, you can't. But you could come in through the ground level and that staircase that's directly interconnected
to the upper level. They could they could put in they could put in a chair they could put a chairlift but there's there really aren't any two family homes that number one are required to have any type of ADA access and I'm not really saying requirements and I respect your
your explanation. I find it impractical. Have some uh questions um regarding the ground floor again. Um I know you just labeled the you know like the summer kitchen really a kitchen. Um the study I mean is there anything it's just it's
just another room essentially right? Study correct. Yes. Office study can be used for any a diverse array of purposes storage. It's just a room essentially. Um that same logic can apply to the recck room.
Correct. It's just a big room, right? There's no Is there not any specialized structures in that room that would have to force it to be used for that for a specific purpose?
No, it's just labeled a rec room. Okay. Um, now you're you're a licensed um architect in in New York and New Jersey for close to 30 years. Um, congratulations on you. Um, I'm I'm
intrigued of the use of the word recck room, and it's because I stumbled upon an article from the New York Times titled, "Rec room is the new way to expand an apartment." And in that article, it stated, quote, "Selling real estate in New York has long involved its
own sort of code. But as developers seek to ring every last bit of space out of their projects, another term has cropped up more and more. wreck room, meaning an underground space that is not legally a bedroom, although many people use it that way. So, as an architect of almost
30 years of licensed experience in New York and in New Jersey, are you aware of this phenomenon as well in New York? Exactly. Why we designed it the way we did? There is no way there is no way to convert this lower level unless you want to to do it sort of like a commune
because you can't access this without going either through the garage or coming in through the second floor. Well, let me let me ask you this, right? Uh, a dwelling unit is essentially if you have a bedroom, a living room, a
dining room, uh, a kitchen, and a full bathroom, right? Essentially. Mhm. Typical definition of dwelling unit. Now, when I look at the ground floor level, honestly, could you simply put a locked
door next to the stairs and insert another door that leads directly outside and that would convert it to another dwelling unit? Where would you insert the door? So, for example, is there a possibility of replacing the front window with the
door? Is there a possibility of putting a door in the study that leads to the outside? Yes, you can. You would have to get building permits for that and it would get kicked back. Now, it would get kicked back because it's an R an RB zone, right? And and that is only for
two dwelling units. Correct. Well, it's not only just the zone, it's also the code, right? This is designed as a as a as a two family. If you created a three family out of this, it would have to be sprinklered. It would the staircase would have to be remodified. So there would have to be a lot of other changes that would kick in that requirement.
Now I I'm I'm kind of intrigued based on our comments from our engineer who hasn't found this type of design for two family home that why with this atypical design from even our township engineer. Why would we build, provide, and propose
this specific type of two family home um on an acre of land when you have an acre of land to work with? We're putting three of the same one on that acre and all that whole acre isn't usable. And we do have restrictions,
zoning restrictions that that kind of uh kept us at the size that we are at and the proportions that we are at. But it doesn't restrict you to basically the configuration that you are proposing tonight with your your your architectural plans, right? It's not
restricting you of this setup of rooms for each floor and basically where each room would go and and etc. Right. I'm really not following that. The ordinances, it's a two family home. It's a two family home. But I'm saying our
ordinances does not restrict you to exactly design your architectural plans exactly like this. That you are not restricted to just that design. Correct? No. But I can get I can get you three other designs from our office that would fit this footprint. They would be the
exact almost the exact same thing. It would be two-car garage, a wreck room, a study, maybe not a secondary kitchen, which like I said, our own the land would I mean, excuse me, the owner would get rid of, but it would really be the same almost exact thing. It would just be a different He happened to like this
one because of the exterior uh and the way it it lays out. But like I said, our most of our typical two bed uh two family homes are the same thing. ground floor, second floor interconnected with a wreck room downstairs because you know we have a formal living room but you have the recck room where the kids would
play. Uh and then the third floor just the mirror image. So um again I'm sorry if this plan isn't the kind you've seen before but like I said we have different versions but they all would be kind of designed very typically. All right. Um I'm done for my questions
for now. Mr. Cohan. Yes. Thank you. So actually I I wanted to pursue this um earlier. I'm sorry I didn't sustain my questioning. So the the one of the the elements of the application is a variance to allow for third floor where
our code only specifies two flush. Is there a way to design this as a two family home without having a third floor? uh to not really unless we were to sink the the building into the ground and then you would have a driveway that
would go down into into the garage. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I have concerns about the the need for a third floor because it's not compliant with uh with the ordinance and there was something else than in your
last statements that generated a question that I'm sorry we do have our engineer that actually made it tonight. So um I'm sorry we do have our engineer who made it tonight. So, um, he can address that, but one of the main reasons why we have
the height variance is due to the grading of the property. So, he can testify more about that after architectural testimony. Thank you. I'm good, Mr. Frank, sir. How are you? I'm all right. How are you? All right.
Did I hear you say that you would be willing to take care of all requests from the fire department? We have already. Yes. So, you spoke to Captain Guzman? Yes. So, Captain Guzman does not want uh NFPA
13R does not want that. No. So we we discussed everything with him and we have an updated report from him from the 19th that says the fire department has reviewed the revised plans. All requests concerns have been answered or explained away. No further comments. So when you
say explained away, he does not want to have the sprinkling building. He said we have the two separate doors that are outside. Sprinkling is not. You're good. Yeah. Okay. Is there any backyard space?
There is a little bit. I mean, I don't have the site plan in front of me, but again, we have our civil engineer here, so he can We have the same plan. It v it varies to each site because there is some configuration. So, if someone had a dog, they could put a dog. Okay. All right. And then
the attorney would you're asking for variance. Who does that? Yes. So, we we do have our planner who will go through the variances we are requesting. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time. Thank you. One quick one. Um, and again, practically speaking, there's no if there's no backyard or a very small Is
there a rear exit? Didn't appear Not a rear There's no rear exit. We do have We have the two decks on. Typically, homes have a back door. What was that? Typically, homes, older homes have a back door. There is no back door here. There is no back door, but
there is the the the two sliding doors from each apartment onto the deck. So you'd go out to your deck to use it, but you could not exit there because there's nothing to go to. Okay. Thanks. One last question. So the and this was
the one that I want to ask before. Those decks are going to basically face route 22, I believe. So yeah, actually I think in the configuration the civil engineer can confirm that. I've seen so many of different versions, but I'm pretty sure
at least two. Okay. Thank you. I have a question, Stephen. I have a question. Oh, yep. Go ahead. With regard to the uh third floor, there's no uh exit. There's no door back there. Is there a fire escape or or And I'm I'm
just surprised the fire department didn't require a back entrance to that third floor. No. So, so we have the deck that's out there. So, two family homes do not require um actually sometimes a three a third family home won't a three family home won't either. Uh the staircase that we have in here, it's
fully rated. It's a fire rated staircase. So, you come it's it's compartmentalized. So, once if there is a fire, you come straight down through the staircase. It's not connected to the second floor or the ground floor at all. So, if there's a smoke condition either the lower level or the second floor
level, it would never get into that staircase because that staircase leads you directly outside. And that's one of the reasons why we don't have to have the fire sprinkler because there's no connectivity between the two in a fire situation. But if the staircase is on fire, how do those folks on the third floor get out? Well, the staircase the
entire building is constructed of 5/8 sheetrock, which is a half hour fire rating. When it's doubled up, it's 1 hour. So, usually usually there's no that usually the fire fire is usually inside the house. the fire staircases, I
don't think fire stairs ever get catch on fire to be honest with you because of that construction. But because of this being a 58 building, the entire building is 5/8 inch construction, meaning that you could take you could take a torch to it for a half hour and it won't catch
fire until, you know, after the fibers start to to work work out. So that that's and again, this is all by code. It's completely legal and and done to code. Um, and so that that's that's typically the way we do these homes. That's why they're safer than than homes
that were built years ago. Hope that answers your question. Thank you. Yes. Any other questions? Just to follow up, I know that there was a letter provided by our health officer, Mr. Gothus. Um, and and you have taken a look at that letter. I don't think I saw
the health letter. Oh, I apologize. But if you have a question, I could try to answer it now. Sure. Basically, the comment that uh Mr. Goff has provided is that buffer for road noise from Route 22 should be installed. Um I'm not sure if it if it's more of a
comment for the engineer or for you as the architect, but I assume that that comment can be addressed either in in either one or both directions. So, well, I can answer to the building itself in terms of Yes, please. the building itself, not the buffer or the the landscaping. Um, if if that if that's
maybe what you might be apply implying, I'm not exactly sure. But with this res check that I I mentioned early on, the windows that we're now currently using um are a certain uh level of soundproofing because of the improved energy efficiency. So, it kind of
doubles in both. So everything, all the materials, all the things that we're using now on these buildings with the walls also being thicker, uh, because they're going from 2x4s, which was typical for 100 100 years, uh, to 2x sixes now with the insulation that so the houses themselves are more a
tighter, they're not airtight, but they're much tighter and and more, uh, efficient, not only in energy, but also in acoustics. Um, and would that also I know we talk about
noise from Route 22. Um, and I I would assume that you are aware of Route 22 being a very hightraed area. I think our master plan says that there is an annual um daily trips of 50,000 to 100,000 trips based on our master plan. Um,
and that it's also a truck route. So with with that highway around 30 ft away from these homes, is the build of these homes sufficient
to absorb traffic induced vibrations that are that go beyond noise that there might be vibrations that can reverberate through the soil to the ground and into the homes. have has that been um uh accounted for and integrated into uh the
architectural plans? It wasn't it wasn't integrated into the architectural plans. There's really I mean as far as the ground goes, I mean we have landscaping around all of these. There really wouldn't be any any uh noise transmission from from from that type of vibration. Most of it would be airborne,
but again that you know we only design it to the certain standards that we have to. There's really not much else you can do. Yeah. uh to to actually soundproof the home. And I think the only other thing that you can do is is traffic calming type of initiatives. And maybe you're not the best person, but
I think we would doubt that NJ DOT would entertain banning trucks on 22 or entertain reducing the speed limit from 45 miles per hours just for for your applicant. You say that that's pretty difficult to do, right? Yeah, I would say so. Yeah.
Okay. Um, any other questions from the board? Okay, hearing none, we will now go questions from the public. Yes, Eric O's 1083 Mayfair Road, Union, New Jersey. Uh, I'm not near here, but um I
pass here very often. Um, I have a question for the architect. Um, in a number of questions. Could you zoom into the elevation? I'd like to know what the maximum building height is because well, first thing, what is the floor to floor height per floor? Because it looks like the lower level is higher looks like and
there's no dimension it appears. So, you got 10 three I'm sorry. So you have a n 9 ft on it's a 9 foot ceiling height for the second floor and it 8 ft for the sec uh for the third floor. 8 ft uh 98. Okay. So the maximum what what is
Okay. Look at the dimension to the side. The overall dimension. What does that say on the elevation? Yep. To the right. Yep. 346. Okay. The maximum permitted building height is
I'm ask that was the question. What is the maximum permitted building height per the RB? Uh 32. I'll tell you 32. So you're asking for another variance in height. Correct. Yes. Okay. Didn't understand that as being one of the variances. Um
what was what percentage did you pass your rest check by? Do you recall? We haven't we haven't done the rest check yet. Oh, you I just thought you just mentioned that you did resident res check on this building. We do the res check when we do the construction drawings. That'll let us know whether or not So, how do you know that you're
passing the energy code? Well, the h the house itself the the actual guts of the house haven't been designed yet. So, the insulation So, what mo more than likely what'll happen when we do the rest check, it will let us know due to the square footage of the
house and the windows how much exterior insulation we'll have to put on it. We already know 2 by sixes only received R21. We can get about R60 up in the roof. Understood. That's the best. So the it's it's the exterior envelope. So it could be anywhere from a a quarter
inch up to an inch of exterior insulation. Exterior continuous insulation. Am I correct? Yes, you are. Is that what you're I'm I'm asking you to tell me. Yeah. Continuous insulation. Continuous. Okay. So you're going to have continuous insulation on the outside. Then you're
going to have cavity of what? cavity insulation between the studs, the 2 by sixes, sir. Yes. Okay. Okay. What would that be? It'll be R21. Okay. And on the exterior, the continuous insulation. Don't know until we run it. You're not sure. Okay. So, I was under the
impression that you did run a res check. That's what I thought I heard. No, I said that's what we'll be doing. I thought I heard Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I'll make it brief as I can. I'm almost done. Oh, hold on.
Okay. Um, hold tight. So, you're asking for variance in stories as well as height. Um, you haven't done the res check, but you're confirming that you're going to be compliant. I was asking for the percentage. I was curious, what
about the outside indoor air uh sound transmission on the windows? Did you do that? No, we don't do any of that until we start running all the calculations. Okay. So, how do you know you're going to be compliant? That's my question. We're not saying you're we have sir, we have to m pardon me. When we submit the
drawings to the building department, they review all of this at the same I'm aware what they do. Yes. And they would kick it back if we're non-compliant. My Yeah. But my question to you now is how do you know you're compliant when you haven't run the check and that's on everything I just
mentioned. I'm talking about energy code as well as the outside inside uh uh sound transmission. This particular house was probably built a few times over the last few years. Not here. Not here. But but you guys are in the same where they were built would be the same
energy zone, the same climate zone, excuse me, as this house. Um, but again, it's really going to be a question of just the continuous insulation that's going to change. But we do, by the way, we do put an STC rating. We put in uh rubber on the floor. We put insulation in the floors. We put resilient channel
underneath the ceilings. So, we do comply to all the STC ratings. Again, it's code it's code requirement, but at this stage, it's the planning board stage. So, we don't really or zoning board stage, depending on what where we are in this case, planning, we don't go that far. Okay. Just because we know
it's going to work eventually anyway. Okay. Until it doesn't. Um, but that's just a statement, pardon me. Only only questions. Let's go to the third floor plan. Oh, it's right there. I'm sorry. Could you So, which is your rated stair as you call it? The the rated stair.
This main staircase. That's your main state. That's rated. Okay. What rating is it? It's a 1 hour rating. It's a 1 hour rated door between the second and between the ground and second. It doesn't have to be rated for itself because it's on its own level, but it
will be because that wall that you see there will have 5/8 inch sheetrock on both sides. Okay. Cuz my understanding of a rated stair is that it's compartmentalized. Could you show me how that stair is compartmentalized? because it looks as if it's open to go down and then there's a door to go
out. But how is that stair rated? And it's how is it compartmentalized? The entire apartment. It's continuous. So the stair is not rated. The entire apartment is rated. That's the question. Yeah. It's rated to as an extension of the staircase. I
guess you'd put it that way. Because that's not a rated stair. Because the thing is a rated stair has rated doors and on a one hour sir may I question or I I understand it's a question but I'm following up your question I just asked the question and what I'm saying is that the stair is not
compartmentalized therefore it is not rated it's a it it doesn't it it doesn't need to be rated from itself because it's one continuous path of egress that runs from its own unit straight to the exterior.
So it that's how it it it that's not the definition by code of a rate of stair is a rated stair is compartmentalized and a one hour stair has a 3/4 hour rating. A 2 hour stair has got a one and a one and a half and you know that. So therefore that stair would need to have a door
that is rated door for that to be a fire stair. So and but it's not required to have a door. Therefore it's not a rated stair. Am I correct? It's it I I get I don't want this to be a grilling session. I apologize.
No, I am but um I'm not getting answers, ma'am. So that's why I'm trying to Does a rated stair need to be compartmentalized? A fully rated stair has to be compartmental. Yes. So is that a rated stair? Uh it's not a rated stair for its
purposes. No. Okay. So it's not a rated stair. Correct. I don't I'm not exactly sure what it has to do with his application, but but I Okay, so but it's not but it's not that's what I'm getting for that. Thank you. Okay, that's what I'm getting at. All right, not done yet.
Okay, I don't want to get into statements, but my understanding of what Mr. um indicated about the article he read in the times. It appears that is there a
question with this it promise as as I say it's like Jeopardy just stay in a form of question. Yes, absolutely. Okay. How do you keep someone from renting the first floor when there is a door from
grade well not the exterior grade but from the driveway into that unit? How do you get someone not to rent that unit as a one-bedroom? By the way, I would love that as a onebedroom is big enough. My has had smaller apartments in Brooklyn. Um, that's the question. You'd have to
go through the garage into that door to get to the rec room. So, the owner, okay, if I may, the owner has the second floor. He's renting out the third floor. How do you get him not to rent out the first floor with that
door from the garage? That's the question. I wouldn't get him to do anything because I'm not the code office. But that is first of all extremely highly illegal because the only means of interest this apartment would have is through a garage. Illegal,
yes, but done all the time. And you know that. Again, I'm only designing the home, sir. I'm not renting it. I'm not. Okay. But you know as a licensed professional you also have got to do things that you know are code for now but also kind of prevent your clients
from doing something that's not exactly code and you know again you made it almost as if you could design as questions right you couldn't design a lower level without that ever happen without that possibility what is the okay not topography because
I know you're going to defer to the civil engineer Did you have anything having to do with the building's positioning on the site at all? No, that really was uh designed by the civil only because of the way the contours work on the site, which the site does have many.
I'm not speaking topography. I'm talking about building location in relationship to the lot lines. Well, topography does have No, it does not. Okay. Let him answer your question. Okay, go ahead. Topy has a lot to do with it because depending on where some of the
site some of the site slopes or doesn't slope, we might have to turn the building slightly, move it over slightly. So some in some instances it might be closer to one lot line and closer to another. But to answer your question, the civil engineer designed the site based on our footprint for the best most efficient design that he
thought would work. Okay. So you had nothing to do with the location of the building on the site. I did not. Okay. Okay. No, that's the answer. Okay. No. Um, so you don't know what the setbacks are. I mean, I was familiar with them, but I don't have them memorized. Okay. So that's why you don't have that's why
you don't have a site plan. You got any renderings of this? Just not the elevation. I'm talking about renderings. Little color so we can have an idea what this looks like. No, just curious. No, sir. Next one. Next time around, would you? It'd be great. Um,
no further. Okay. All right. Thank you. Any further questions from the public? I would like to make a note if if the whole wreck room and study in the kitchen is an issue with the board, we are willing to just make it storage
space and call it a day if that's if this is a main concern for the board. Okay. Noted for the record. Thank you. No further questions from the public. Just want to make sure. Okay. Um would you uh we would like to call our
engineer on con. Okay. Mr. Khan, can you spell your last name for the record, please? K H N. And sir, uh do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. Can you go ahead and please provide your
credentials for the board so you can be accepted as an expert please? Uh, sure. Uh, I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering, masters in construction management. Doing this for 35 years, testified in front of federal court, superior court and hundreds of boards throughout New Jersey. Uh, I was here
yesterday in the zoning board, but I have been I have appeared in front of this board as well as well as over hundreds of boards throughout New Jersey. board stipulates. Thank you. Thank you. Can you go ahead and take us through the site plan? Uh
yeah, let me find the site plan. Okay. Okay. I believe a lot of things you might have already heard uh about the variances and um things of that nature and the zoning. Uh I will just probably
quickly touch uh through some of them. Okay. So the property is located in RB2 family residential district. Uh the currently it's one single lot. Uh the proposal here is to subdivide the lot into four
lots. Uh three lots will be for residential uh two family uh dwellings as you heard in the testimony. The fourth lot is a common lot which will be which will be under a common ownership or HOA which basically consists of uh
access roadway uh lighting uh street lighting improvements and circulation and parking additional parking. Uh we are complying with the park again uh since the total unit count is six residential components so it
automatically qualifies for the New Jersey state EV requirements. We are over five units. So we have to comply with the state EV requirements and we are proposing EV charging stations and of course at the same time you can take credit based on what the state gives you
10% of the required. So adjusting all those parking numbers the requirement is 14 spaces for this project and we are proposing 18 spaces. Okay. So the sheet that is in front of you is
the existing uh site the way it exists currently. Uh it as I mentioned it's one lot uh and it extends to the north sorry to the north uh by route 22 and as such
since uh route 22 is to the north of the site we have a dot embankment easement along the northern property line as sh as shown in the shaded plan here. So this area is out of um basically it has
restrictions that we cannot touch or we cannot develop or we cannot do any grading to it because this is an embankment easement from DOT for route 22. So the area that is available for development is anything but that easement portion.
Okay. So the way we are proposing is as I mentioned like uh we will have our access uh from uh Chestnet Street. It will be uh through uh the access will be on lot uh what we calling is I think
20.04 let's see 2.04 2.04 sorry 2.04 so the 2.04 for lot is the lot that mostly can consist of the excess driveway, a
circulation, a turnaround and additional parking and access to the drivers for each dwelling unit. The rear of lot 2.04 04 is uh partially is the DOT embankment area and uh we leaving it as green or
pvious surface and we are doing some uh planting there for landscaping purposes like some shade trees and some shrubs. The residential lots are lot 2.01 which is to the west uh of this lot 2.02 O2
which is to the east and up on the top or further east is lot 2.03. As you heard the testimony from the architect uh the houses are pretty much identical and uh they are placed and I think there
was a question regarding the placement of the houses. There are a couple of concern a couple of uh uh reasons that we placed the house. They were they were like this. First of all the bulk requirements we have to maintain certain setbacks uh rear setbacks front setbacks
all those uh requirements. So that was one of the uh main reason to comply with the bulk requirements for this project. The other uh as you can see in the existing conditions plans the site slopes considerably from north where the
embankment for Route 22 is and all the way up to Chestnut Street. So there are very steep slopes present on the site. So the consideration was to provide uh flatter area for the lots which will have uh uh residential houses. So that's
what uh was the other uh placement or the other criteria for the placement. And the third uh criteria was the circulation uh having uh easily easy access from the proposed driveway that
will serve three lots in and out of the uh driveways for each individual lots. So there was there were all these criterias that pretty much blended and we found this as a more uh acceptable as far as the grading uh as far as the
elimination of any bulk variances and of course the uh safety and circulation of the driveway. Uh so once you enter from Chestnut Street, we have a full service driveway 24T wide which is a standard
two-way driveway that serves uh uh the cars or the vehicles entering from Chestnut. And then we have driveways, individual driveways for lot 2.01 and 2.02 where the owners or the tenants can then just make right or left to get to
the garages and get to the driveways. If you go further up, uh we are providing additional parking spaces uh and EV charging spaces. These are common parking spaces for guests or other individuals uh who might be visiting or
any deliveries that might be uh coming into the property. Uh and then of course we have the driveway that again serves uh the last lot the eastern most lot. Uh we are providing one handicap van accessible handicap space uh which is
fully compliant and also the trash and uh uh rec solid waste and recyclable area. Uh right here uh we are proposing a turnaround and again I'm going to when I'm going to go go through my circulation plan I will show how that
circulation works. The idea here is that this turnaround area is designed to accommodate a fire uh fire vehicle or a fire truck to basically enter the site in case of an emergency and they have enough room to turn around and leave uh
Chestnut Street. Okay. Then again uh the next sheet is uh basically the grading plan. As you can see with these dark lines how steep the site is. We try to maintain as much as possible
uh to match the existing grades while providing positive drainage and the drainage uh for each individual houses as well as the roadway and not to create a steep slopes for the driveways. So but again the overall idea here is like again just to make sure like
everything works uh seamlessly with the grading as well as the houses and one of the reason uh for the height variance is of course the grading as well because as you can see the grades falls very drastically throughout the site. So that creates that third story
third story situation as well as the height situation to uh some of the houses. Okay. Uh we are proposing uh all new utilities. Uh uh one one one thing actually I just want to touch base
before I go further into this is uh before we finalized this particular layout we had couple of meetings with with the town engineer and I think it was uh Mr. header at that time and we presented quite a few concepts to him.
uh and we got feedback and this was the concept that we all agreed and I believe we got the blessing that okay this is probably more doable concept uh and that's the reason I originally we started with the municipal roadway and
then I believe because we have to run the utilities all the new utilities from chestnut which include water gas electric uh sewer as well as the stormwater management system that goes uh for the individual houses as well as
for uh the roadway lot. So that was discussed and it was said like okay it's better to have a private road so that the owners for all these uh maintenance will be on the homeowner association. So just a brief history like again this this particular concept that you see
went through quite uh few iterations and finally this was the one that sign was signed off and then we we proceeded with the design of this project. Okay. Uh so the next plan is the lighting and
landscaping plan. As you can see, we are proposing a a good chunk amount of uh new landscaping including uh uh evergreen trees and deciduous trees. Plus, there are some shrubs and also the other improvement that we are doing is
like we are proposing decorative street light. And the way the the street light is like this decorative fixture uh that uh we selected to give like more residential look for the driveway and uh
uh for rather than looking at it as like a just another driveway entering into the thing like it will gives a more like a residential development look uh for this particular type of lights and again these lights are all LED type light fixtures that we are proposing and we
did prepared a lighting plan which uh complies with the requirements as well. Uh the other plan as I mentioned is uh the fire circulation plan and we run the template for the fire truck uh which shows that the fire truck can enter
through Chestnut Street. They can access any house or any of the three houses and then they can back up into this turnaround area and they can leave the Chestnut Street. The same thing is true for any passenger cars or any delivery
vehicles that they have ample room to circulate around without backing onto the chestnet street. Uh as part of this uh project we also contacted the county and uh based on I know like Chestnut
Street is a county county road. However, there is and I believe our traffic engineer probably went through in detail about the traffic signal and uh alterations to the traffic signal which uh is under the jurisdiction of the township, not the county. But we got a
letter or a letter of exemption from the county that they're not concerned with this project. It is not going to impact any of the county infrastructure whether it relates to the traffic light or it relates to storm water management. So we pretty much comply and they give us a
letter of exemption uh uh as far as for this project we did received a letter from Kier's engineering and uh there are I think uh again this is uh the letter that we received and some of these comments are
already incorporated into the plans but most of these comments are mostly housekeeping type comments which I don't see any issue if this project gets approved we will uh comply and will comply with these uh requirements I believe and I'll take any questions if
anybody has any question I have no further questions okay questions from the board yeah you go start with Mrs. and then committee woman ter uh so so as I don't know if uh if you all know
like uh township uh union township has a very strict uh drainage requirements strict standards uh where usually they require a much larger system to capture cert certain amount of rainfall. So we designed these drainage systems in accordance with the
township ordinance. So if you look at the plans uh each lot will have a dry well system which incorporates like which basically consists of two dry wells and all the roof leaders are tied into tied for the for each houses is
tied into those dry well system. uh and again um uh this is uh one of the in uh system that we designed is called infiltration system. Of course it's really it's heavily relies on the permeability of the soil and one of the comment in Kalar's engineering is is
that we need to do a soil testing in order to make sure that the permeability of the soils in the project site will work for these rival system which uh we we will do as part of the resolution compliance. In case if that uh system
infiltration system doesn't work, we have an option of going a detention based system which basically consists of uh pipes and that can hold the water uh and then slowly discharge. So I mean there are options but again for now we are designing the infiltration system.
We have two drivables for each house and as well as we have a drainage system for the roadway runoff or the driveway runoff and where we are showing uh these dry systems for that too. What is that again? you have to do soil testing. Soil
testing we have to do and uh based on my experience in the area I believe we'll have decent permeability but in case just in case if the soil results comes out that it doesn't have good permeability we will design an alternate system that of course will be reviewed
by the engineering department and uh the board engineer and we'll work with them if need to be. Mr. Mr. on the um one question I had regarding that that dryw wells in that in the driveway area. I I know that it's tied to the trench drain, right? It's
going to go into the drywalls. Was there an overflow for those dry wells? Uh right now, basically there is no overflow, but I think I got the comment and I think what I'm thinking is like to run an overflow pipe to the low point from these dry wells. We will
incorporate that. I just want to make sure that in the event that we have it overflow that it doesn't we don't have an issue with the water pushing back onto the street. Maybe we can look at there is an inlet at the frontage of of that property might be able to tie into. Understood and I think that was a very
valid comment and we will incorporate that. Thank you. So so my question is um related to the six parking space the guest parking spaces. So, I just I just want to clarify. There's six guest parking
spaces. There's three EV EV spots, and then there's one handicap. Are they deducted from the six or are they in addition to the six? No, they are part of that. They're part of the six. They are part of the total 18 spaces. Okay.
Thank you. So, I have a question that I would like to know the answer to and I don't and you likely do. uh when there are EV parking spaces. I understand there's credit given and so on. My question is must an EV vehicle occupy them?
Uh again it's a homeowners association types uh setup. So it doesn't need to be okay but again like if if any of any of the tenant has an electric vehicle they will get the priority in getting those spaces. Then the question I also have then is if you have an EV vehicle and
you you live there, is that parking space, are you allowed to keep that parking space as your own or to to occupy it overnight? In many of our uh situations, it is allowed to be used while it's being while you are charging
your vehicle and then it must be moved. Is that the case? That is the understanding. Usually the how the EV parking stations work like a car parked there, they get charged and then they move back. In this case, they will move back spaces are it's it's questionable whether or not they're they could be
occupied um as valid spaces for those who live or visit for any distance of time. Yeah. As actually as part of uh the houses themselves, they are self-sufficient for their parking. So
this is just an additional parking that we are proposing. So let's see like if one of the owner yes uh park has an EV and they park there and they charge after the car is charged they can move it back to their And the other question just because I'm not certain of how this
is laid out is that the only handicap space there and why would it be an EV space because they're free? It's required by the law uh by the state law that I understand that handicap you know handicap as well as that has to be EV. So that is also in the state uh
regulations that at least one uh EV charging stations had to be handicapped. Are there any other handicapped uh locations available? No. Handicapped can't use these apartments anyway. So I got you. Thank you. So there's a handicap space but no handicap entrance
into the to the building into the Yeah. No, I'm talking about there's no handicap accessibility into the house itself, but there's a handicap park except for through the garage as the architect testified. Mr. Cohan. Yes. Thanks. U
Mr. Con, I'm not sure you're the you're the right witness to pose this question to, but the proposal to create the private road from the fourth lot, um, it gives me great concern, frankly. Okay.
I I note in the technical comments in the engineers uh letter that there will be a homeowners association setup. But I guess the question is and maybe this goes through council in the event that owners who may be part of the homeowners
association um are disincined to pay the cost of the maintenance of that road. What happens? The maintenance is going to be handled regardless. It's just whoever normally how HOAs work, if you don't pay your dues, eventually the
HOA can put a lean on your house for the price of that whatever the overdue pay like the non-payment dues are. Um, but the rest of the HOA when you have your fee, you pay your monthly fee, there's an extra buffer in there for reserves
and all that. So, the the property is going to be maintained regardless. It's just whoever is not paying their dues if they continue the HOA can file a lean on the property. Has there been any estimate of what the cost will be to maintain this this street surface? Not
as of yet. Normally that's builders during the process. The builders do that and I have been talking to the board attorney and it would be a condition of approval to provide that prior to any uh cos or anything.
I mean, that's a that's a set of facts that I personally am going to need to be satisfied that I can I can support this application. I I would imagine that I mean, I know what the what the township budgets and pays for street
reconstruction on an annual basis. Now, it's for the entire town, but it I'm certain it would run into six figures if the street needed to be rebuilt or repaved or whatever. And that amounts to an awful
large bill for any individual homeowner. I think that's something that this board needs to consider before approving this application because if we if we approve an application that can't and for a property that can't be sustained, we're buying a problem for the community and I'm not interested in that. Understood.
I just want to clarify something. The the HOA, do they own any of the driveways or is it just the the one lot? The HOA would own the entire just that one lot. Just the one lot and then not Okay. I just wanted each homeowner will be responsible for their own driveway. Okay.
I guess one more question. Are you aware of any other private streets that are owned and maintained by a homeowners association such as being that's being proposed here in the township of union? Not in union personally. Right. Thank you.
Any further question Mr. Frank ask will there be a a fire hydrant installed in his property? Uh that is one of the comment and yes we will address the Thank you sir. Mr. on the um other question regarding the uh I guess
it's kind of a circulation question within the site, but you know, I'm I'm a little troubled by the um by this parking arrangement that you have you're going to have two cars that are going to be owned by the the owner uh which is
going to occupy the second floor in the garage and then you're going to have the other cars in a driveway that's not that wide. So the shuffling of cars, can you envision, you know, any other situation that would make that better? I know that we don't want to run into an impervious issue. So you don't want too much
pavement, but um it it does concern because the driveways aren't even that deep. You know, we're looking at 20 foot deep driveway. So you could barely fit a car in there. Then you got to move it out. So you're going to have it move backing up onto the onto the driveway. So I mean, it's obviously not ideal, but
is there anything you could think of that might make that better? Usually I I mean situation like that that the way I I suggest to my clients is that it's if you do a tandem uh parking like one in the garage, one behind it and give it to
one unit and the next one to the next unit that eliminates that shuffling and this thing and that's what I usually do and usually that can be written into a lease agreement. Yeah. which traditionally that that's that's what I've seen, but then you have the issue of, you know, the being able to access
that main level and and then the second level. So, it becomes an access issue. So, I think that's something that may guys may want to talk through and and try to figure out how that that works. Sure. Any other questions from the board? I have some questions. Um,
going back to that parking space with the EV and the handicap, if I if let's make believe if I was a handicap driver of a none vehicle, how would I know that I could use that spot?
Uh, we we can always put a sign. Number one. Number two like I mean like we are not required we are required to provide an handicap parking spaces but it's not for the residents we are not by by requirement like again the these
individual houses I mean like like any single family or two family houses they're not required to have handicap unless if there is a person who needs these services then they usually put the ramps and things like that but we are not required but uh as part of the overall parking number that we are
providing we need to do that. So usually what we can do is like and again like right now we are showing three EVs maybe three stations but the EV technology has advanced randomly now they have like one unit a very small unit and you can put
it between the two parking spaces that can serve one unit can serve two spaces. So so what I mean and this is just for depiction that we are showing it. So depending upon what the developer will select as far as the EV unit, we can put one unit of course it can be handicap
and we can put a sign as well as it can become an EV charging station if they needed to. So there are different options that we can work through uh with the parking and EV requirements. So are you saying in your testimony that it's not required to have a combined EV
handicap spot? uh it's not required but if you're providing one handicap it has to have a EV access let's say if we have two handicap in this project then we can only we are only required to have one EV handicap
okay but that spot if that's a sole handicap spot a non-EV vehicle can park in that spot uh yes it can and again uh we can provide a sign as well like again we will have a handicap sign parking sign as well there and we can always
tell the person who will be using that space that they can park. Okay. So, um I know our engineer also talked about soil testing and and I can you just remind the board was soil testing done for the
property? Not yet. Not yet. Okay. So that means you're not able to uh basically determine the nature of the soil or determine the hydraologic group of the soil. We did actually we did I mean not the actual testing on the site but we have a lot of data available
through county soil surveys. Okay. So so we did review when we designed this system we did review the countywide uh database and based on that we designed these systems but again again the county data is in gen is general it's not sight specific. That's why usually most of the
engineers recommend that before you install the system you do your own soil testing just to confirm that. Okay. So based on the data that you have extrapolated from are you able to describe the nature of the soil at the at this moment? Yes. It's hydraological
soil group type C. Type C. Yeah. Okay. And and remind uh can can you explain to the board what does hydraologic uh soil group C mean? It's the composition of the soil like how the soil looks, how much silt, how much clay and the permeability, the rate of discharge
through the soils and all the all that uh physical properties. So A would be um high infiltration, D would be the lowest infiltration rate. That is correct. Okay. So C is is basically around the
slower end. Uh it's the slower end, but it doesn't preclude it from not having a detention basin. Okay. All right. Um now on the site plan with the introduction of a lot of these um homes
and and and a introduction of a private road, obviously impervious coverage is going to increase. What's the current percentage of impervious coverage now? And what would be the proposed postdevelopment impervious coverage percentage? Uh, I can probably give you
that number. Okay. Okay. Existing lot currently the lot coverage is uh 23.04%. and uh impervious uh yeah so 23 and uh the proposed is
38.28%. Okay. So impervious coverage is going to basically a little bit more than double correct uh no not necessarily yeah I would say probably se 75% wait 23 to 38. So what's what's the
pre-development again? I'm sorry 23 23.04 4. Sorry, what what's the first column of this chart is the ex sorry it's 17 sorry my my bad yeah 17.31 is existing and is
38 yes so it will be doubled so it will be more than double okay yes um as you are uh I I took a look at your storm water runoff calculations um you use a rational method in in
calculating it right okay um I'm I'm very interested to to understand um how you utilize the the coefficient uh and determine these coefficients for buildings to be 0.9 pavement to be 085
and lawn area to be uh 02 can you elaborate sorry can you elaborate on how you arrive those coefficients yeah uh Union Township they have their own criteria how to design storm water so they give us these coefficients they give us the uh uh
strong depth that we need to contain over the impervious coverage. So it's not typical rational and modified rational that we did here. It's basically it's a onepage sheet that usually is uh provided or it's on your website as well from the engineering department and that tells you exactly
how to calculate the storm water uh storage and we comply with those requirements as per your ordinance requirements. Okay. because are are you also aware that there are coefficients that that I know I know you're following the
engineering department's template and and that's fully acknowledged but I there are also other guidances out there from the New Jersey best practices manual for storm water management right right and basically they establish your coefficients based on what land use and
what your hydraologic soil group is correct so if I pull from that table I know the town should provide a 0.9 9.85 and 2. But um are you aware that the storm water best practices manual um
state that for basically any paved areas which includes parking lots, roofs and driveways and etc. regardless of a hydraologic soil group your C would be 0.99. Right? Yeah. And you acknowledge that. Correct. Um and then based on your response that
this hydraologic soil group is C. Um and it really depends on the lot size. Um actually your uh your C would be I think based on the table 63 instead of 2,
right? I have to look at it. You have to look at the chart. Yeah. But considering that you have n here and then.99 for the best practices manual
considering for pavement you have 8.5 here and.99 in the best practices manual. Um those are pretty significant discrep like differences. I'll say differences because it's not your discrepancy it's a difference. Right. Correct. So if we
utilize the state best practices manual coefficients, we might actually deal with a higher runoff number essentially. Correct. That's possible. Yes, that's possible. And that could ultimately affect the design of your dry wells as well, right? Uh yes. Yeah. Okay. But
just for to clarify again, we followed the ordinance. Ordinance says design the system based on this the method the way we designed it. So I think yeah, you might need to amend the ordinance. uh to basically explain like okay yeah you should do best management practices
versus do it this way. I think Mr. Davi we might someh have we might have some homework to do then. Um okay that that's thank you for that clarification. Um just
to kind of um tie into some of the questions that I had the architect with regards to traffic induced vibrations. Um now you cited from the county um data and and and extrapolated that the soil is is more clayish. So most likely is
that is that a harder type of soil? It's not clayish. It has more composition for clay but it is mixed with sand, some silt, some gravel also and again that is based on the uh Union County soil data. Yeah. How how does traffic induce
vibrations especially from let's say route 22 truck traffic and vehicular traffic. How would those vibrations um um pass through such soil of that nature? I I don't think so that will have an impact for route 22 because if
you walk the site today usually if there is an impact for vibration you can see it on the surface of the land that you might see some cracks you might see some settlements here and there the lot is like I mean it's it's basically whatever the slopes are so I don't think so it's one of those things that if the truck
moves uh moves through Route 22 it will start vibrating and all the houses and everything will go down trickle down it's not the thing the only way that the vibration can affect if you do a blasting in that area like in the rocky area where people do uh land blasting to
demolish or to take down the rocks formation. That's when you have the vibration issue. Otherwise, this highway is there for like what 70 80 90 years probably. And again, it's no different for this particular lot versus any lot on that route. For any highway, you will
see houses right next to the highway. Mhm. I the way where I live, I have 287, which is probably about a uh 200 300 ft from my house. I don't see any Yeah, I hear the noise, but I don't hear any vibration.
Okay. All right. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. Sorry to cut you off, but um I do notice the time and there are two other applications after us. Um and my after his testimony, my plan is to ask so we can adjourn this to the next meeting. Sure. so our team can regroup.
Um I don't you can continue your questioning, but I just wanted to throw that out there. I don't know if we want to open after his testimony to the public or it's I'm just trying to be time efficient here. Sorry. Actually, what my thoughts are based on what you
said is that um we would probably um do questions from the public for for the uh engineer. Um, and to be fair to the public as well, we'll have comments from the board, comments from the public, so that at least you have some additional feedback that you can go back to. I
don't know as a result of that if if we're going to have sufficient time as a result for the two other applications for the for the night. Um, take a break and at least have in the middle of it release one application. Sorry. Yes, please. Yeah, if you could approach the
mic and just identify yourself and who you're representing. Stephen H. Murman of the law firm of Jabberbound War Morgap Hicks Khan Witstrom and Sinnins on behalf of both applications. You're smiling, Michael. You know, because it's so hard for me to get all those names
out. But I you I usually say I get paid extra if I do it right on the record because I can bring it home and I know I did it. But in any event, I uh our firm uh not only is working on this application before the board, but we also have the other two applications which I have been sitting in the wings
for. Uh so with regard to chestnut 367, Mr. Chairman, that's the last matter to discuss that with my client and our professionals. We would ask that that matter be carried to your July 24th meeting with no further notice. Uh we would be ready to proceed on the July
24th meeting for that one. With regard to the 7-Eleven before we'll we'll we'll entertain the motion for that so we could just get that out of the way to allow that to be 367 to be moved to the next meeting with no notice. Moved by Mrs. Perkins. Seconded by Mr. Cohan.
Roll call, please. Mr. Alexander, yes. Mr. Cohan, yes. Mr. Frame, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Miss Perkins, yes. Mayor Bowser, yes. Committeewoman Terrell, yes. Miss Khan,
yes. Chairman Lei, yes. Chairman, with regard to the other application, Mr. Mr. Chairman, uh even though it is late, we recognize that. I understand the u proposition and and how the board wants to proceed with this application. I'd like to have an
opportunity, if I may, to address after this application is complete. I believe that the uh 7-Eleven application was rather quick application from my understanding. We could probably knock it off relatively quickly. I only have basically a planner and the engineer and
I have no one here on behalf of 7-Eleven. So it would be a quick application. So if the board's okay, we're just going to stay and wait. We'll wait you out. Doesn't want to continue and do that. That's fine. This way. I just want to make sure I release one of
my sets. Duly noted. And um we'll see how how far we get with with um the rest of the period. Um maybe we'll be quicker, maybe not. Who knows? But um if we do have time, we we will bring forth that application. Okay. Um any further
questions from the board? Questions from the public. Uh Eric O's 1083 Mayfair Road Union, New Jersey. Hey, how are you? Could you uh call up the um the site plan that shows all of the dimensions the setbacks? Sure.
Okay. No, no variances required for setbacks. It doesn't appear to be correct. Uh that is correct. I can actually let me go through. Yeah. The only variance we are seeking is the building height. Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, the only variance
we are seeking is the building height. Everything else complies. The setback complies. Okay. Setbacks comply. Go to Let's take a look at your grading plan, please. Okay. Grading with topography, please. Okay. Um, okay. If you could go towards the the
site, the vehicular circulation entry and exit. Yeah. Zoom in a little bit. I happen to be looking at the photographs and it looks as topography. There's actually a steps, four steps to get from the sidewalk to the existing grade. I don't see that there's any
regrading in that area. like um I think your proposed contour says 72 at the front you know hold on 72 and when what is it at the roadway at the sidewalk yeah what is it there it's 72 at the sidewalk then it goes up to 74
but the reason we are doing is like we this is 72 this is 72 so this will be a high point will create like 72.5 so this will be regraded will be you're leveling the site over there that's about that's what I'm asking okay okay And it looks like there's 75 over there. I I happen
to look at the photographs and I see that there's steps. Yeah. Actually, four risers to get to grade level. Yeah. I mean, that's the whole idea like it's going to be regraded completely within those. Was there ever any consideration when regrading to maybe entertain
either retaining walls or anything to make the topography uh flatter? If I may, could you just go behind the first building? Yeah. Go to the No, the other one. The other way. That other way. Right. Correct. Okay. So, look at all these contours that are very, very close to each other. They're I would say
within five feet of each other, would you say? Uh, yeah. Along the, you know, Yeah. about a foot drop like every five feet. Yeah. So, you've got a foot drop in five feet. Would you know what that slope is? Uh, I would say one is to 20 I
believe. Yeah. There you go. 20%. Yeah. It appears that number one, beside it being hard to mow, I mean, you're going to get a lot of storm runoff with that steep of slope. So, entertaining retaining walls, would that not alleviate that? That's the question. Not
necessarily. Okay? Because again, there are a couple of things when we do like there are drainage like there are certain standards that we have to maintain. We cannot just change the direction of the existing runoff flow or runoff area. So you have to maintain certain aspect because otherwise what
will happen if you put retaining wall the water is still going to run off from this surface. If it's not coming to our house it's going somewhere else someone's else property or maybe to the street. So it's going to start impacting the neighbors. So that's the reason that there are certain standards or
principles that we have to follow when we do the grading. I understand that. I'm just, you know, I'm looking at this and again I'm seeing the slopes that I'm seeing and it just appears that you've got a hill and in a flat portion and there was any opportunity. Okay. Can we
look at this uh the handicap space? Was there any rationale to having the handicap space cl across the flow of traffic across the cross the flow of traffic? If I'm handicapping, I'm getting out of that car. I've got to cross the flow of traffic just to get to this house. Yeah.
But probably you might have heard like it's not one of those uh shopright kind of a traffic that we're talking about. I I know shop right. So it's it's a residential six units. Oh, I understand. So So you're not talking about a constant flow in and out of that those spaces. But handicap space is a requirement by by zoning, right?
Correct. Uh by the uh federal government. Okay. Right. Okay. That is a requirement. Your requirement. You're meeting the requirement. Correct. But your location is crossing the flow of traffic. That is my only observation. There are no restrictions as far as where it can be. I mean except for it
has to be a shortest distance to the access. That is the only restriction. Okay. And this is very typical anywhere you go. It's an engineering standards. It's an RSIS residential site improvement standards which tells you like if you are providing a 90°ree parking you just need to provide enough
backup space on and I no I I I agree with that. I appreciate that. I'm just saying not from a code standpoint, but just from a feasibility standpoint, crossing the flow of traffic, if you happen to be in handicap, don't you think it would be a little bit more convenient? Like for example, I mean,
are there any sidewalks on site? No. For a person from a the handicap spot to at least get onto a sidewalk to traverse around. Yeah, we have a fire lane, marked fire lane. So if handicapped person is uh getting off in the space, they can come, they can travel the fire
lane and then we have a sidewalk. Okay. But that's still in the bed of the roadway. It's still part of the roadway. The the fire lane, the strip that you have hatched, that is that still part of the roadway. That that is correct. But again, this is not where the cars will be. I mean, the fire the fire truck is
not coming every hour to I that's correct. I appreciate that. What I'm saying to you is that if I'm handicapped and I'm getting out and I'm getting into that handicap striping area, the only way for me to get into that house is to cross the roadway. Correct. How is it
different than any other situation? I'm just asking you to answer. That's correct. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Um, a lot of trees. Thanks. We like trees. That's good. Could you look go towards the front? Do you have any concerns about any of these trees impeding
visibility of the traffic on Chestnut? No. Okay. Um, I think that's it. Thanks. You're welcome. Okay. Any further questions from the public?
All right. Hearing none. Um before we do entertain the motion to um to carry this do carry this to the next meeting in July. Yes. Yeah. Uh without further public notice, I assume. Yeah. Um, I'm going to ask for a comment period from
the board and then a comment period from the public just because they've been very patient to come here and be with us for the for the past 3 hours um to offer them the ability to provide any feedback as necessary. So, comments from the board.
Mr. Chairman, um given the fact that this application is going to be continued forward to the next meeting at which I will not be present, um I'd like to get my comments on the record despite the fact that I won't be able to vote on the application. Um
there's been considerable testimony tonight that has have addressed many of my concerns moving into this hearing, specifically the ownership question um and the mod the modification of the design that uh
have been offered to eliminate the concerns regarding the first floor. But I continue to be concerned about the height, the variance requested for the height requirement and very specifically related to the proposal to to established the private road managed by
a homeowners association. I just don't personally find that to be feasible. Um we have a very well-managed community. Our Department of Public Works, our our township administration are very very
meticulous about maintaining the quality of life in the community and making sure all of our streets are maintained uh snow removal, all of those things. And while I don't doubt that that is the intent of the applicant to ens ensure
that those standards are maintained based upon this application, I don't feel that we have sufficient asurances because we don't have the evidence before us about how uh road maintenance and repair will be financed. We don't
know what the rules of the HOA are. Um, I would not be satisfied if I were voting tonight on this application relative to that particular variance. Um, that being said, I am going to ultimately defer to my colleagues on the
board because I will not be among them the night that the application is uh voted on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Cohen. Uh, further comments from the board. Yes, I I would like to make a comment as well uh relative to almost a compilation of many of our
concerns. Um our engineer has brought up a very practical question. I believe I have brought up a very practical and um open-minded thought relative to a handicapped individual accessing,
buying, using or visiting the particular apartments uh that will be owned by the first floor, second floor person owner. Um I'm very sorry to see that. Um it's it's not something that exists in most of our
buildings. I'm concerned that there's not an a rear exit uh from from these circumstances. I understand the testimony was very clear about the fact that the stairwell will will be uh safe and with no sprinklers. I understand
that too. But I have great concern about the practical nature of this design. Thank you. Any further comments from the board? I would like to provide some comments as
well. Um, this application is very incomplete. Um, to come forth. Number one, as seen tonight, one of my concerns is with regard with regards to traffic to come forth with a traffic plan with
no capacity analysis, with no traffic impact study. It seems very odd to me. It it's a cart before the horse type of issue that you would propose a design but not do the study beforehand to support the design.
I would think it's very pragmatic to say do your study first, produce the empirical evidence and then come before this board in terms of how that supports um the redesigning of an intersection. And it seems like it's very much
inconsistent with the practices provided by NJ DOT, the practices provided by the county that also leans on the DOT and a myriad of other um organizations like the Institute of Transportation Engineers. So to me this seems very
backwards and I and I'm sure as well as other colleagues are not simply going to take a leap of faith to approve an application based on faith that it's just not going to exacerbate conditions
on an area that is deemed of concern not only by residents, not only by the town, but also by the county as well as an area that is in concern. concern of congestion and that should be noted. And
this board needs to uphold our goals when it comes to the master plan of encouraging a well-maintained, efficient and safe circulation system to improve the capacity and efficiency and safety of our intersections
and to ensure that that circulation is compatible with our land use goals and public safety. And so when we see and hear that the pedestrian is completely removed from the consideration of this intersection, that's concern for me. Um
secondly, uh I'm sure that there are other concerns with regards to the architectural design. And thirdly, um, as I noted, um, we probably have some homework as a township to revisit, um, how we calculate runoffs, um, and and
advise applicants on on doing runoffs, but I would feel more comfortable with the coefficients and and and the and the guidance provided by the state best manual practices because they seem to be more stringent and because we have a
myriad of flooding zones scattered all throughout out the township. I think it's it's better to be safe to um overestimate the risk of runoff rather than lean on um underestimating the risk
of runoff. So I do feel that we need to revisit that the calculations and how that might change as well the the proposed uh storm water detention system through the dry wells. So those are my three main areas of concern. Um again
this feels very incomplete. I don't think the board can take a leap of faith of a design before a study. And those are my comments. So any further comments from the board comments from the public
again. David Weissro 990 tin kettle turn in scenic Union. I just want to e echo um Mr. Chairman your remarks which were made far more eloquently than mine. Uh to ignore the capacity someone making a right turn out of the new development
wanting to cut across to make that left turn onto West Chestnut isn't going to work. The turns are backed up. The traffic is ridiculous. If a capacity study would eliminate that, I would be dubious of it. But traffic is a main concern, especially when school lets
out. People coming from Globe trying to make a left onto Chestnut as well as people coming from Chestnut trying to make a left on the Globe creates a huge backup. And and because Union has no regulations regarding 24-hour overnight parking, those particular side streets
are clogged. Fire trucks have difficulty getting through from Pond Drive when they go down that way. So for us from the fairway drive section which we will have greater attendance in July um know that it's just a logistical traffic nightmare. So thank you for your
considerations again Rickett 692 Rosener Drive. Um, chairman and esteemed board members, I greatly appreciate you all looking into this application, asking the thorough questions. Um, but we've heard testimony from
several witnesses and as Mr. Chairman said, it is incomplete. Specifically, the capacity, which is one of the most important factors regarding this project. Again, I live in the
Fairway neighborhood and one of my neighbors, as you have heard, traffic can be a complete nightmare, especially during peak hours. There are times where traffic is backed up from 22 East coming onto Fairway Drive just to get onto Chestnut. It is absolutely backed up.
The light tends to be very short for us to turn. Everyone is in a rush. So, guess what happens? They block that intersection. Once they block the intersection, guess what? We can't turn and we cannot when we have to wait and we have places to go as well. Doesn't
that happen? Fairway Drive only has two ways to get in and out. Either 22 or Chestnut. So therefore, it does significantly put a strain on the residents there to now add
a fourth intersection regardless of this is going to be something so short, the light and whatever the case is. Right. Another thing that was not taken into consideration, as Mr. Chairman pointed out, is the pedestrians. You're taking out the middle curb, which is there for
a particular reason. It's there so that people don't make illegal U-turns or don't do anything else. However, there is no type of thought process taken into consideration. The pedestrians, we do have a lot of children that live in our area that do go to Connecticut Farms,
and there are people that that do cross that. I can't remember if there is a particular uh traffic light that says cross don't cross but I have seen people that have crossed there children especially they wait for the light and then they go but no type of consideration was taken into account for
them which is completely unfair to accommodate maybe 20 or so people while hundreds of people that commute You're putting them at a disadvantage, which is completely unfair. Completely unfair.
your boy. The traffic experts repeatedly said this that this is such a small project which would mean that other drivers would be permanently disrupted because the times where let's say people in that particular development are not using the traffic
light because they're not really coming in and out often. But what about the other people that constantly use Chestnut Street, Fairway Drive? Chairman had pointed out the various ways people get on 22. Fairway is one of them. What about us? What about us people that have
lived there for years? And again, thank you board member Cohen for expressing and explaining that the township does take pride in taking care of our roads, our streets, and everything else. So adding additional
traffic to the place that's already extremely busy to me is unfathomable. For that reason, I do ask the board not to approve this simply because again, consideration was not taken specifically
for the residents in the Fairway area, for the pedestrians, for the Connecticut Farm School as well. This application is incomplete. Many questions are unanswered. The capacity study was not even done. However, testimony is being
given saying that this this is going to be a short light. This is just a small thing. testimony has been given for that. However, the actual data and proof has not been provided. So, for that reason, I ask the board to strongly consider denying this application. Thank
you. Thank you. Any further comments from the public? Thank you, Chairman, um and the board. Um I do have concern as as a union resident not close to here but passing
by um for vehicular circulation as well as a number of things that I just felt uncomfortable with. Um it appears and I think a lot of people have intimated that and I'll use it in my own terms. The documents are halfcooked. No one has really really vetted this here enough.
And it's simple enough for certain of the licensed professionals to do some of the due diligence that's involved to know the statements that they're making can be substantiated. You know, you run a test. You know, you can do a res check. It's not that difficult. I mean, take some hours to do this, but just
don't tell me that yes, it's going to comply with energy code, but you can't tell me what this is going to be. the outside inside air u um trans air transmission sound transmission rather um that was just mentioned about oh yes we're right near highways but we're going to comply saying that you're going
to comply is not enough do the due diligence and come with a presentation that is worthy of consideration versus a pipe dream that's just again halfcooked that's all I have to say thank you thank god thank you uh any further comments
from the public hearing none Uh, chairman, I would like to um request an adjournment to the August 28th meeting if possible. Sure. So we can, you know, digest all the comments and regroup and decide what we're going to
do next. Okay. All right. Without prior notice. What? Without additional notice. Without additional notice. Yes. Thank you. So move. So second moved by Mr. Cohan, seconded by Mrs. Perkins. Sorry, Mrs. Perkins. Have you had any comments?
I think it's a wise choice. All right. Roll call, please. Mr. Alexander, yes. Mr. Cohan, yes. Mr. Frame, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Miss Perkins, yes. Mayor Bowser, yes.
Committeewoman Terrell, yes. Miss Khan, Chairman Le, yes. Thank you. Thank you. All right, we're going to try to fit this in very quickly. So, um, Mr. Murman, uh, can you please approach with application 2025-09711?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. Stephen Murman already identifiable with law for a moment, but I'd like to reiterate it for everyone. Um, Mr. Chairman, members of the board, this matter has been before the board previously for a site plan waiver about
a year and a half ago. The application is related specifically to the road widening project that was done on Mars Avenue and this particular site um there is continuing an eminent domain action uh in superior court. In fact, we had a
case management conference on it yesterday. uh which is why I asked uh to have the opportunity to try to quickly put in the application tonight because we are under the gun with court in order to finish the application because part
of the court case are damages related to the closure of the driveway and the effect that the actions of DOT had on the operation of 71. So with regard to tonight's application,
we are here to tie up these loose ends so that we can finish because basically this is an amended site plan. This board had previously approved the site plan decades ago, right? In fact, I've been around town so long that I remember when
that was a Jiffy Loop. Okay. We were I think a bunch of us were around that time too. Yes, we know it was a Jiffy Loop, right? So we know that this site has had a lot of different variations over the years. So when it was originally approved, it was approved
as it was and there were variances that were associated with the project. So what we're going to do tonight is I'm going to introduce um Doug Cleland of Inside Engineering. He's going to run very quickly through the site plan concentrating on the changes, what has
changed. We're also going to introduce tonight uh very quickly a turning template because one of the issues that is before the superior court is whether or not this site can accommodate certain size trucks. And if the board makes a
determination that it can't, that goes to the damage claim by 7-Eleven against the state because prior to um them closing the driveway and taking the site operated that would allow these trucks to to go through with no issue.
Then after uh Doug, we're going to go very quickly into Dave Baylor, who's going to give the planning testimony to support the variances, both those that were existing and those that are newly created. I believe the only one that really is newly created maybe parking. We've lost two parking spots. Without
further ado, I Sir, can you spell your last name for the record, please? Sure. Uh, C L E L L A N D. Uh, can you raise your right hand? Yes. You swear the testimony about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you.
All right. Could you uh give us a very brief rundown of your educational background and professional qualifications? Sure. Um, I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. Uh, currently work for Insight Engineering as an associate where I've worked for the last 11 years.
um working on a variety of projects from single family homes to larger commercial site plans. Um I've testified before about 35 other boards in the area. Um have not had the pleasure of testifying before union before. Um I also had the privilege of serving as the board
engineer for the planning and zoning boards of Asbury Park. Um and my license is in good standing. Board stipulates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, you uh worked on the original site plan, did you not? Our our office did confirmed
it. I think you may not have been uh licensed at that time. That is correct. All right. But you do you have gone through the old files and and you have a comparison. Yes. Of what the site plan is. So we put your plan up on the I have a thumb drive. I just don't know where
to There it is. Look at that technology. Okay. Steve left. All right. So, uh, just to orient the board, uh, the location is 1174 Morris Avenue, block 504, lot 18. It contains
18,76036 square feet or just under half an acre, point43 acres. It's zoned affordable housing district 2, AH2 zone. Uh it's on the corner of Lehigh Avenue and Morris Avenue and surrounded by commercial use.
Uh Morris Avenue is a state highway 82. Lehi is a a local road. Um and as was stated, the applicant is requesting u preliminary final site plan approval to address conditions created by the NJ DOT's eminent domain um taking from uh
for improvements along Morris Avenue. So as part of that taking, several changes have already occurred. Um one egress on Morris Avenue was closed and we overlaid this over uh some aerial imagery so it's a little clearer for the board. Um,
right about here is where the uh, one of the egresses existed. We have a second um, plan down right here. And there's a third egress on on Lehigh Avenue that exists. So, the one egress on Morris was
closed. A freestanding sign was relocated, which is located right here on this corner. U, one parking space was also lost. Um the overall lot area was reduced which worsened an existing nonconformity. The property was already
undersized relative to the zoning requirements. Um the closure of the Morris Avenue curb cut also affected truck circulation on the site. Um to address that, we've propo proposed some minor modifications including um
widening the access on Lehigh Avenue, um modifying some of the curb islands, and uh removing one additional parking space by increasing um the loading zone striping. So, um on balance, there's a
loss of two parking spaces. Uh one was lost in this area. Uh the first was lost as part of uh as part of the DOT's work and uh a third is lost here where we're increasing the loading zone striping. Um
but one additional space was added here. So on balance two two net parking spaces are being lost. Um while I have you right here, could you explain the reason why we we did the striping and and the loss of that parking space? Yeah, it it's it's all
relative to uh truck circulation. So, um what used to happen is I believe on Morris Avenue there was there was two egresses. So, a truck could pretty easily angle in u through one egress and
utilize the loading zone and then pull straight out back onto Morris. That's not feasible anymore. Um, so the main entrance that we anticipate being used is going to be on Lehi. Um, so that was widened. Um, as I mentioned, some of the
curb radiuses were increased to allow for a smooth transition around this curve. Um, and then this parking space here, uh, we've increased the loading zone striping to prohibit anyone from parking there, which will make it easier for a truck to be able to make this
turn, uh, and access the loading zone. And then they would, as they did previously, pull out onto Morris Avenue through that existing curb cut there. Now, I know we have we have our outline. I'm going to jump off the outline for a minute. Could you throw up those park those uh, truck templates that we
prepared? Mr. Mr. Murman, can we mark that as exhibit A? And then so here we have uh this is known as a multi-top truck. Um WB50 is the design vehicle. Um this is the most common
delivery truck to the site. Uh, and you can we show the movement here from from Lehi Avenue, uh, through the new modified entrance. Um, making a turn, avoiding any parking spaces, and then entering the loading
zone, uh, ultimately leaving back out onto Morris Avenue. Yeah, that that is not a box truck. That is a tractor trailer. That is a tractor trailer. Um it's not the largest design vehicle that's that's out there. Obviously that's the WB62.
Um that's something you would see more um you know arriving at a warehouse with the full sleeper cab in the back. Um this is more of a multi-stop day vehicle. Um so we do have a turning analysis with the WB62 as well. It is
possible. I don't anticipate um that it'll be used very often, if at all, but um we do have that turning template as well. Does that other turning template does it accommodate the movement as simply as the one that you're showing the board right now? Close to it. It's
um there's a a few spots where uh we did need to use mountable curb um particularly on this curb island. Um but it does it is able to navigate the site uh given the modifications. So, so the proposal is to use the the modified
curbing to to allow these trucks to to access without um damage to the trucks or to the property. That is correct. Yes. Now, we had an opportunity, did we not to uh review the effects of the changes with the operator with 7-Eleven
and we did run through those with the board? Yes. So, um, you know, they've they've spent a lot of time watching how things have worked since the DOT made their changes. Um, you know, that elimination of the the one egress on
Morris Avenue has greatly impacted them. Um, you know, it's created a situation where, uh, the trucks are having a difficult time entering. Um, you know, probably needing many, many movements to get into the loading zone. Um, and then
even sometimes when they're getting into the loading zone, they're not properly oriented and and are causing a bit of a uh, you know, poor circulation for the other vehicles on site. So, uh, we do feel that the modifications proposed will allow the truck to get in there and
pull uh, closer to the building to allow, you know, it cars entering from Morris to be able to uh, circulate the site better. But yes, from from from what we've seen and what we've witnessed, um you know, photographs were
shared with me, um you know, basically they have told us that, you know, it's not wide enough for two cars to enter or exit at the same time. Um and we believe this will make it much better. Now, I just want to run through uh the
variances uh with you that uh were created specifically by this uh DOT action um as well as the ones that have previously been approved. Let's start with minimum lot area. Um in the uh original approval, the um there was a
4.30 uh acres, 18,736 square feet. that was reduced by the taking. Yes. So, uh in the proposed condition after the DOT taking
the resultant area is426 acres or 18,543 square ft. Um you already referred to uh one sign being moved. There were three signs that previously had been approved uh on this site with with the exception of the one sign that we already referred
to and talked about with the site plan waiver application. Was there any change uh relative to that uh variance that was requested? Uh no change. No minimum setbacks. Was there any change as a result of this?
So um the minimum setback for the sign um the requirement is 15 feet. It exists currently at 3.08 ft. We're not proposing any change. The sign was relocated as part of the taking and that
setback is a direct result of the taking. Um minimum setback from the street for parking areas. The requirement is 10 ft. um existing is 8.9 feet to the new curb that was installed by the DOT. Um again another direct
result of of the taking um minimum set back from property lines for parking areas. Uh required is 10 ft. It exists currently at 2 feet. Um and that was I believe previously approved. And then as part of the
proposed condition with the space that we are adding um the proposed setback is 0.7 feet. Um again this parking stall was added in an effort to maintain as closely as possible. the original number of approved spaces um and then park uh
number of parking spaces as was discussed requirement was 20 spaces um existing after the DOT has done their work 19 spaces exist and we're proposing uh 18 spaces uh again we're trying to maintain as
closely as possible the original number of approved spaces uh but because of the DOT's work and trying to maintain adequate access especially for the for the truck traffic. Um, two spaces did need to be eliminated. And then, uh, a couple more.
Uh, we have the minimum aisle width, which is required at 24 ft. Um, in the original approved application, it was, uh, 24 ft. um after the DOT has done their work uh 21.3 ft to the new curb
that was installed uh by the DOT and under the proposed condition uh 18.8 ft also driven by uh adding the parking stall on the corner of Morris and Lehi uh in order to try to maintain an adequate amount of parking for the site.
Um parking space location is required to be in the rear sideyard. It was originally approved under the the original application in the front yard. We're not we're not proposing to change that loading space size. Um loading I'm sorry, loading space location uh rear
sideyard but not abudding a street. It existed um and it was originally approved in the sideyard abudding the street um and we're not proposed to change that. And then finally uh minimum setback from the building for a parking area requirement is 10 feet existing in
the front uh by the adjacent to the sidewalk is 5.8 ft and then in the rear there's three employee parking spaces um that bought the building. So the z there's a zero setback um behind the building for the existing employee
spaces. Again that was originally approved under the original site plan and we're not proposed to change that as a result of the changes. Um, was there any need to address uh the storm water management on the property? No. So, uh, we've graded the property and modified
the curb in a way that all existing and previously approved drainage patterns will be maintained. Um, and we're not proposing any additional storm water management. Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions. Questions from the board.
saw truck size trailer. So, uh the overall length is 55 ft for the WB50. So, the trailer itself uh from the center. So, it's a 45T trailer. Is that what you're
talking about? It's 42.5 ft. the trailer itself. Yep. Would the um I'm back here. Sorry. Yes. Um the the tractor trailers would enter on Lehi Avenue. Is that would they also be
able to enter from Morris Avenue or it was just that one way they can come in? Yeah, there's really no feasible way to get in from Morris Avenue. So, that option's pretty much off the table. And the ent the egress that's on Morris Avenue, is that uh both an entrance and
an exit for cars or is it just an exit? It is. It is technically a two-way uh entrance. I I have a feeling as people, you know, that live in the area will probably get used to going in on Lehi because of it. It's probably it's a little difficult to get in from Morris.
Uh I know when I visited I I went in on the Lehigh Avenue uh entrance. Um, so people that are familiar with it will probably go to Lehi, but you may get the rare scenario where someone may try to enter from Morris. And that's where um our our our client has noticed the
issues occurring and then the tractor trailer entering can only go one way on Mars Avenue when they exit. And they'd have to figure out if they need to go the other way, they'd have to figure out. That is correct. Yep. They can only exit um to the right when leaving the
property. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Mr. Yeah. I just have one question. Um, and maybe it's just a it's more of a comment, but we've previously approved
an application for a child care center across Lehigh Avenue. Um, I guess the the question is what kind of traffic volume needs ingress egress off of Lehigh
Avenue into this property? And I mean, that's a that's an awful area. I, you know, I live in that area. I know that I know that the intersection, it's not a good place to get in and out of. um even now I mean I I understand the challenge that the applicant has based
upon uh the action of the DT but do we think that any of the current traffic issues will be exacerbated as a result of these changes? I think the the first question that we really need to answer is how
many deliveries come in during the course of a day and I think we have that. Yes, I do. Uh give me one second. So the number of deliveries per day varies but varies between one and four deliveries a day really. Um timing of
the deliveries two of them are overnight during very quiet hours. Um the rest are what are known as DSD deliveries during the day. Um the timing of those deliveries does vary significantly depending on availability. Um the types
of trucks that are delivering, they vary in size from box trucks, SU30, SU40. Um the multi- stop trucks, which we we talked about uh earlier tonight. Um and then also refrigerated trucks, which okay really was the same as a box. Yeah,
I guess I'm I'm really more concerned about customer traffic. Uh but and then I believe you answered this to a previous question. Customers can also make egress directly on the Morris Avenue from that other curb cut.
They can pass through the loading zone to thank you. Yeah, practical. Yes. That is correct. Yes. Um and there's also it's double yellow and I believe there's some uh traffic striping in
between as well. Um, and if anything, you know, our client has noticed, um, you know, a drop in traffic because of these. Um, you know, maybe it's not as convenient as it was before. U, so no, I don't anticipate any traffic issues the other way around in
terms of more. Um, if anything, they've seen a decrease. If there's a truck in a loading zone, um, would that block the Morris Avenue entr entrance/exit? So currently they've they've noticed
some issues with that. Um the trucks are having a difficult time making that turn around the corner. Um so our proposal is to try to increase the ability of that truck to make a sharper turn and get closer to the building to allow um you know some space within that loading zone
for a vehicle to be able to um to pass by. So you you're going to reconfigure a bit more to so that it's wider for the truck so that there's space. Is that what you're saying? Right. Right now this where we're proposing the striping here.
This this is currently a parking space. So if a car is parked there, um they've got a tough time making this turn around the corner. Um, so we're eliminating that parking space by striping it with a crosshatch pattern to allow them to make
that turn earlier and get closer to the building during loading operations to allow um, you know, it's certainly wide enough here to allow other cars to pass through. Um, you know, the difficulty is practicality, right? and then is the
driver going to um you know get over there as far as possible um you know to allow that to happen. One thing I will say I mean there the the three parking stalls below here um in the original approval were designated as employee parking. So I would imagine a lot of the
in-n-out is going to happen on Lei on Lehi. Um but again our goal here was to try to improve uh you know a difficult situation for the applicant. Do you have any information on how long? So, I know you said there's four
deliveries, two are overnight. Um, the two that are during the day, is there any information on how long those deliveries typically take? I think they're they're relatively quick. Uh, you know, um, just based on
experience, I I probably um, you know, 10 to 20 minutes for them to unload. Um, you know, they come frequently. You know, they're there pretty much daily, so um, you know, they're not unloading a whole lot and it can usually be done pretty quickly.
Okay. Thank you. Any further questions from the board? Questions from the public? Would you like to call your next witness? Yeah. All right, she's all yours. Mr. Chairman, I know Mr. B has testified
before this board on several applications. On behalf of my firm, I ask. So, order. U Mr. Ba spell your name for the for the record. For the record, can you just spell your last name? Sure. It's B A I L E R. And do you uh can you
raise your right hand? Yes. You swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you. Uh thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the board. As Mr. Murman mentioned and uh the applicants engineer mentioned
that these are variances related to eminent domain taking of the improvements by DOT. Uh I have a photo board just to give the board some context of the existing conditions. Uh this picture right here when the cursor
is over, this is where that previous ingress and egress on Morris Avenue was that was closed off by the DOT. Uh so that resulted in a loss of ingress and egress along Morris Avenue. Uh this one right here is the they expanded DOT
expanded this green area and resulted in also the sign having to be removed. Uh so and then this area right here is where there's going to be new park. Uh it it adjusted parking uh previously was approved for six parking spaces. Now
it's going to be four parking spaces. Uh in front right here uh it's going to be adjusted parking spaces as well because we're going to lose one of the spaces related to uh expanding the for the delivery. So there's going to be uh seven parking spaces here. And this
parking is going to be the one additional parking spot uh as mentioned to provide as much opportunity for parking resulting from the loss of the parking related to the DOT improvements. And this is the existing ingress and egress along Morris Avenue. Um in terms
of variance requirements, I'm sure the board is familiar. There's a C1 variance and a C2 variance. What is a C1 variance? The C1 variance is in cases of hardship hardship such as exceptional narrowness, shallowess or shape of
specific piece of property or by reason of exceptional or unique topographic conditions, physical conditions or an exceptional situation uniquely affecting a specific piece of property or the structures law lawfully existing
thereon. Uh and then C2 for the record is where the purposes of zonings would be advances advanced and the benefits derived by the variance we outweigh any detriments. I don't use this often but this is a classic example of a C1 variance. This is result of eminent
domain from DOT resulting in the variances that are required for one minimum lot area required is one acre existing. It was an existing non-conforming condition that was previously approved in 2012, but
existing is 18,736 367 uh 736 square ft. Proposed is 18,543 square ft. A reduction in 193 ft due to the New Jersey uh DOT taking uh number
of signs permitted is one existing three. This is a uh previous existing non-conforming condition that was approved. Uh in terms of the freestanding sign that was also existing non-conforming condition that was approved. Uh minimum science setback
required is 15 ft. What is now is three uh three 3 feet and 8 uh 3.08 ft and that's result from the eminent domain uh of the expansion of the green area. The minimum parking setback requires 10 ft.
What is exist what is existing is 8.86 feet and this is resulting from the taking of the new curb. Uh no parking spaces in the front yard is the existing condition that was approved in 2012. Uh minimum parking setback from property line required is 10 ft and what's
proposed is 0.7 ft and that is for that one new parking space in the corner uh to provide as as much uh parking as possible. This is also a result of the minimum parking aisle width requires 24
ft. What's proposed is 18.8 ft and that's result of this parking space and the expansion of the no loading zone where you lose that one parking space in front of 7-Eleven. So the result of that is 18.8 ft. And then the last variance
resulting from the eminent domain is the required number of parking spaces. what is requires 20 parking spaces. What was existing was 20. Uh now it's 19 and will by removing the one additional parking spaces is going to be 18 parking spaces.
So a variance is required. This is something that the applicant did not want to do. They did not want to lose parking spaces, but as a result of the reconfiguration, the DOT eminent domain resulting in the loss of the parking space. And to provide the necessary
turnurning radius, we're going to lose one additional parking space in front of 7-Eleven uh the store itself. So that result in 18 parking spaces. Uh this is result from the eminent domain. But uh my opinion, I don't think there'll be
any significant detriment from resulting of losing two additional parking spaces. Now, with regard to your overall testimony, as you and the board are well aware, uh we have to show special reasons uh under the municipal land use law. Could you identify which of the
purposes of zoning this application falls under? Uh I think this is the benefit just in terms of appropriate uh uh population densities, appropriate uses in the area. Uh so I think this serves the purposes of of the municipal
land use law on that. Uh and this all goes into the purposes of the eminent domain. You know, this is the result of the eminent domain itself. Uh so I this is something that the applicant did not want to happen but it did and we're here
to go through the process of making the jurisdictional uh approvals necessary to continue with this. Do you see any negative impact to the zone plan or zoning ordinance of the township of union which you reviewed prior to the
application? No. No. And this this is the AH2 zone, but it was this when this was previously approved, this wasn't the AH2 zone. Uh but you know, this in terms of the uses uh for this property and the surrounding area, the commercial is
appropriate for this surrounding area. It's been a commercial use for a long time. It's been 7-Eleven since 2012. So I see no impact to uh the tent of of the zone plan or the master plan itself. And as to other properties, uh, do you see
any negative impact to surrounding properties? No. That, Mr. Chairman, I've concluded my questioning of this witness. Okay. Questions from the board. Questions from the public. All right. Thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. Chairman, normally I
would make a submission, but I'm just going to submit tonight. All right. Thank you. Comments from the board hearing. None. Can I get a motion to approve the application, please? Mr. Chairman, I uh move we approve the application as presented subject to all of the conditions and comments made in
the engineering review letter. Moved by Mr. Cohan. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Mrs. Perkins. Roll call, please. Mr. Alexander, yes. Mr. Cohan, yes. Mr. Frame, yes. Mr. Miller, yes. Miss
Perkins, yes. Mayor Bowser, yes. Committeewoman Terrell. Yes. Miss Khan, Chairman Lei, yes. With no further business, can I get a motion to adjurnn? So move. Moved by Mr. Cohan, seconded. Seconded by Mrs. Khan. All those in
favor say I. I. All those opposed. Meeting adjurnn.