The notice in this meeting of the upper township committee was posted on the official township pool board the upper township website emailed to the Atlantic City Press. The office city sent a ledger Herald Times and file with the township clerk. Tonight's meeting is being video recorded up until the close
session portion of the meeting and will be available at the upper township website. I hereby direct this announcement be made part of the minutes of this meeting. Will you please call the role? >> Mr. Cusachio here. Mr. Nappen here. Mr. Sam Palumbo here. Mr. Zack Palumbo here.
>> Mayor Corson >> present. Please stand for the flag. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one indivisibley
and justice for all. Sorry about that. Um, >> has everyone had an opportunity to review the minutes from our previous meeting? >> Yes. Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Please call the RO. >> Mr. Cassaceio. Yes. Mr. Nappen. Yes. >> Mr. San Palumbo. >> Yes. >> Mr. Zack Palumbo. >> Yes. >> Mayor Corson.
>> Yes. >> Motion. >> Okay. Report of governing body members. Uh, >> Zack, let's start with you tonight, sir. >> All right. Uh so public works is still on leaf collection and also snow removal and I guess we're geemy's going to give
a little guidance later on on his report why procedures from what we go to remove snow. Um not to steal some recreation thunder but I would like congratulate the town wrestling association on a successful tournament this past weekend. It's good to see as many participants as
we've had and it's expanded now to two days. Kudos to that organization for bringing, you know, recognition here to our township. I want to wish everyone a happy holidays and that's about it. >> Tyler, do you have any questions?
>> Yeah, I'll be brief. Mayor, obviously, it's our last meeting of the year. Just wanted to uh thank you guys for wonderful year work and commitment from all five of us up here. Uh look look I look forward to these meetings every other Monday and enjoy working with all of you and continue going in the new
year. Um speaking of the new year we'll have our two upper town of gravies clinics that are at the beginning of the year every year Saturday January 24th and sat Saturday February 21st. They're both from 1 to 3 p.m. at Shore Veterinarian Hospital Borson Road in
Seville. That's all I have. >> Jack Sam, do you have anything? I do, mayor. Uh, thank you. Uh, last week, uh, committeeman Zach Palumbo and myself attended the WCK advisory board meeting. Um, and it was very productive meeting
again talking about collaborating with all of our wreck organizations, making sure that they have equity and everything that we're doing and collaborating with public works. Um, and I'm really excited for that year to come. And I just wanted to wish everyone a successful winter sports season.
Obviously things have kicked off wrestling, basketball, cheerleading. So I just hope everyone has a safe season and uh enjoy it. Uh it's for the kids obviously and merry Christmas and happy holidays. That's all I got for you, Mayor. >> Thank you guys.
>> Good evening everybody. I have a few things. Thank you so much for everybody coming out as always. Uh cyber security is the buzz word this week in IT. So we're continuing to come up with uh unique ways to township safe. And uh speaking of safety from an EMS front, obviously we had some icy conditions over the weekend. Please make sure
you're safe out there on the roads and um don't put yourself in danger if you don't need to leave when snowstorms. Please make sure you stay home and stay safe. Um merry Christmas, happy holiday to everybody here in attendance. Tyler, very well said. It's been a it's been a great year working. Looking forward to
accomplishing a lot in the new year with everybody. Uh speaking of the new year, uh we'll be having our reorganization so everybody can come out for swearing in and that will be January 5th. >> 6 pm
>> 6 o' 6 p.m. Yeah. 5:30. >> Well, let's get here early if I can. And uh yeah, the the wrestling tournament was great. Uh I was there with my son over the weekend. He competed. Was a fantastic event. Great job. and uh let's get the Indians on one of these upcoming
agendas as well for their successful undefeated football season. That's all I have. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you all. >> I don't have much to add. I would like to thank everyone who did come out for our earlier discussion and workshop. Um look forward to the new year coming up
and it's been a pleasure working with all you gentlemen. I am looking forward to next year and uh we do want to wish everyone a safe and happy new year. >> So move around. Do you have any words to know? >> Uh, yes, Mr. Mayor. As Zach alluded to, I I just like to to dedicate um the
administrator's report section just to do a brief overview of the township's deployment um for public works in a winter storm operation with and I'll cap with the low cost analysis. Um so take a Yeah. So first it's important to clarify
that we do not have the ability to brine. Brining is pre-treating the roads in advance of a storm. It's cost prohibitive. It's expensive and we just generally do not maintain that capability in house. What we do have is rock salt that we drop and plows that we
drag across the road. Um applying dry salt to roads in advance of a storm is ineffective. Traffic simply scatters the material onto the gutters. The rock salt bounces and diminishes before the snow arrives. Um so our approach is as
follows. Salting. When accumulations are under three inches but above one for minor events in the early stages of a storm, we treat roads with salt to prevent ice bonding. We generally do not lower plow blades for accumulations under three in. Plowing too early scrapes away the salt
layer anyway that we just applied. It leaves the flash freezing and causes unnecessary wear on the on the road surfaces and the equipment. When we do plow is 3 in or more. Once accumulations uh hit that 3-in mark, full plowing operations commence. This depth allows
the the the plow blade to float, protecting the asphalt while clearing the lane. Um of note, fiscal um impacts. You know, when we decide to mobilize the fleet is it is a significant financial decision. A single full-scale deployment
involves substantial taxpayer resources. Um, so for context, one full application of salt in the township requires approximately 50 tons of material. At a current market rate of $75 per ton, that's $3,700 of rock salt for the
initial application. Labor cost. A full call out requires 13 drivers operating for a 12 10 to 12 hour shift. During non- business hours like a Sunday, this labor is paid at time and a half. with an average driver salary of about 70,000
a year. A single overtime event cost the township about $7,800 in wages. So, so to to have the team come out apply initial base layer of salt and to do one run of plowing cost us about $11,000 on a Sunday, right? So, when we start
getting snow on a Sunday, we have to be very judicious with the employment of our public works teams. Um and oftentimes it is cost prohibitive to go out there prematurely because we don't have that brinding capability. So what do we do is we watch the weather diligently. Um and when the conditions
call, we mobilize the team into action and that looks like a an initial run of salt and then subsequent plowing operations to follow. We don't want to do it too soon um because you're essentially spending near $12,000 for an event that clears itself anyway. Um, and
so doing it just right is oftentimes the best call and is consistent with industry standards. And so when you take Sunday into consideration, sometimes the best thing to do um as unfortunate as it sounds is nothing. In this case, this is what we did. Um because you know the the
weather of the subsequent days don't support a full-scale operation. Um the roads were largely cleared in itself uh within hours after the snow hit the ground. um the ice bonding never formed uh which would have justified assault application. And so um you know going
forward we will use these same measures in the same uh SOP when approaching winter storms. But I just you know want to take that opportunity to put that on the record um to educate the staff, the team, the public about how we employ our uh winter storm operations. And I did
ask Jim to put that together because as you know, Facebook seems to be the place everybody goes when something's wrong. There was a lot of people that judged us on Facebook. In reality, it was not fair. Public works was prepared.
There were people on standby. We were ready to go if necessary. We were not necessary. It would have been a complete waste of resources and money. I can just say I was out plowing many of my properties and about 50 60%
of them all didn't have to all >> and the last thing I'll say is merry Christmas. Thank you. >> Joanne, do you have anything for tonight? >> I have nothing. Thank you. >> John, you have nothing. Mr. Mayor, thank you. >> Just to wish everyone merry Christmas and happy new year.
>> And the state police, do you have anything for us tonight? >> Thanks, sir. Okay, let's Okay, at this time we'll open it up to the public. Is there anyone that would like to talk about anything on the agenda? This public portion is limited
to agenda items only. >> So, we'll limit this just to the resolutions. The ordinances will each have their own public hearings. This is related to resolutions on the agenda >> hearing. No public portion. We'll close the public portion. Move on to our consent agenda. >> Okay. All consent agenda items listed
below are routine in nature and will be enacted by one motion. If the mayor or any committee member wishes a particular agenda item to be considered separately, it will be removed from the consent agenda and acted on separately. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Mr. Cassaceio. >> Yes. >> Mr. Nappen. Yes. >> Mr. Sam Palumbo.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Z Palumbo. >> Yes. >> Mayor Corson. >> Yes. Motion carrying >> ordinances. We have 19 public hearing and final adoption of ordinance number 12, 2025 and ordinance amending ordinance number two 2025 known as the salary range ordinance for the calendar
year 2025. Is there anybody who'd like to comment on this? >> If not, we'll open a salary ordinance to the public. This time we'll open our ordinance number 12 of 2025 to the public. Is there anyone that' like to comment on the salary ordinance?
Hearing no public input, we will close the public portion and ask for an ordinance to for introduction of final adoption of ordinance number 12. >> Motion to uh adopt ordinance number 12 of 2025 and amend number two. >> Second, >> please call the role.
>> Mr. Cassaceia, >> yes. >> Mr. Nap, yes. >> Mr. Sam Palumbo, yes. >> Mr. Zack Palumbo, yes. >> Mayor Corson, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> 20. We have the public hearing and final adoption of ordinance number 13, 2025, an ordinance establishing salary ranges for the township of of upper for the
calendar year 2026. This time we'll open it up to the public. Is there anybody that would like to comment on p public comment on ordinance number 13 of 2025 salary ordinance again?
Hearing no public portion from the public will close the public portion of ordinance number 13 of 2025 and ask for adoption. >> I'll make the motion for ordinance 13 of 2025. >> Second. >> Please call the role. >> Mr. Cassaceio, yes. >> Mr. Napp, yes. >> Mr. San Palumbo, yes.
>> Mr. Zack Palumbo, >> yes. >> Mayor Corson, >> yes. >> Motion carried. Public hearing and final adoption of ordinance number 1420 2025 an ordinance amending chapter 3 section 17 noise of the municipal code of upper couch. >> At this time before we ask any comments
from or open to the public I'm going to ask John to take >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh I'd sent an email out to each of you earlier uh which included four different letters that were received by members of the public uh who indicated they couldn't be here this evening. Um, it is certainly
not a requirement under the Open Public Meetings Act that you entertain any public comment from those that are not actually present. Uh, it's really within your discretion to do so. So, knowing that, knowing that we don't have any prohibition on the books in terms of resolutions in effect right now, I did
want to send these to each of you so that you could review them in advance at tonight's meeting at least take them each into consideration. Right. So, can you each just indicate that you you've received these correctly? >> Yes, >> we're correct. Okay. Um, so take them as you will. You understand the concerns addressed in each of the letters, but
those um can be noted for the record that they were received and considered by the committee tonight. With that, you can open to the public that is here. >> At this time, we'll do any of my colleagues. >> Beat this to death. Yes. At this time,
we'll open up public portion for ordinance number 14 of 2025 and only 14 of 2025. Is there anybody in the public would like to address town committee? Yes, sir. Please come forward and state your name and that goes for correct.
>> My name is Mark from West Winrop Strapher. Um, if it would be all right, one of those letters was from my wife who can't attend. It's one page. Would it be okay if I read that into the public record? >> It's that's up to the committee. >> It's up to you if you would like to read it. Thank you. I'll use part of my five minutes to read her letter.
>> Sure. >> Uh, dear committee members, thank you for your attention to reviewing and updating Upper Township's noise ordinance. Residents throughout Upper Township need a noise ordinance that is clear and enforceable and provides guidelines to help create livability
throughout the township. Their proposed ordinance does not accomplish this goal. The Upper Township Committee has received numerous complaints of noise that is disruptive to residents and negatively impacts our quality of life. Upper Township has received testimony in
many occasions of how disruptive these noises are. The ordinance states that the aim of noise ordinance is to prevent is to prevent noise that may quote annoy, disturb, injure, endanger the comfort, repose health, peace, or safety
of others. Without applying plainly audible standards prior to 10 p.m. as well as after, this goal cannot be achieved. Much of the noise that disrupts our quality of life occurs prior to 10 p.m. through afternoons and evenings. These disruptions come
amplified come from amplified music from commercial establishments as well as residential deck parties with blurring music. How is music that is so loud that residents need to go inside one's home, close all the windows, and turn on air conditioning not an annoyance which
disturbs and endangers one's comfort? Why is one's quality of life only considered after 10 p.m.? Why is the inability of a family to enjoy a meal on their porch because of over-the-top music not the top concern for the committee? The ordinance is woefully
insufficient. Communities all around us have enacted clear and enforcable noise requirements that are in effect throughout the day and evening as well as the night. Most set the distance of 50 ft. Why can't Upper Township enact an ordinance that mirrors the standard
throughout much of South Jersey? Many of these municipalities have robust tourism and thriving business districts. They implement such noise restrictions and simultaneously support local establishments. I feel upper township could do the same. In addition, the fine
for violations does not seem adequate. A commercial establishment could decide to just pay the fine for each violation. I feel there should be escalating fines for multiple violations. Otherwise, there's no deterrence for an organization that can afford receiving multiple violations. In addition, a
commercial institution that repeatedly violates the ordinance should have their license to operate put at risk. I respectfully implore you to one reconsider the 100 foot distance for commercial establishments and consider a
property line standard or shorter plainly audible distance 20 to 50 ft consistent with Kate May County and other municipalities. Next, apply the noise requirement during the daytime and evening, not just after 10 p.m., and
have a clear nuisance test, such as a plainly audible at a reasonable distance or at the property line. And finally, three, include an escalating fine for multiple offenses. And it goes on to say why she couldn't attend. So, those are my wife's
comments. I I think she says it very clearly. I would just like to emphasize that a part of the impetus for the township to create this ordinance was complaints from residents of Strathmir about noise from commercial
establishments, noise in the afternoons and evenings. I salute you for what you've put together here for the night and the attention to uh landscaping work and and leaf blowers and such. However, our quality of life is so impacted in
the evenings and in the afternoons and this ordinance doesn't address that time window whatsoever. There's nothing in here. >> We It is addressed and I'm going to let Mr. Amnow respond to that. >> There's no >> We'll let him finish. >> Yes. Thank you. You're you're left with
the same problem that you wanted to remedy, which was there was nothing objective. There was nothing enforcable. It's at the discretion of the individual who's working for the township to determine whether or not it was reasonable, appropriate, and necessary. That's the problem that you're trying to
fix, and this doesn't fix it. So my my request would be that you, as both Cape May, the city of Cape May and Sele have done, have a plainly audible standard at at the property border. You want to go
100 feet, great. But something that someone can say, "Yeah, I'm 50 ft away from the source of the sound. It's the evening. I can hear it plainly. This is unacceptable and you don't have that unfortunately. You do have it after 10 p.m. But you have discretion in the
evening and the afternoon. So with all this work, I implore you to include restrictions at a plainly audible standard for evenings and afternoons, which any of your enforcement officers or or the state troopers can come and
say, "Yes, no, I heard. I didn't hear. It's black and white. You don't have that right now. There's nothing that can be done to enforce excessive noise disturbing the quality of life which you say in your preamble you want to address during evenings as we do this.
>> That's the that's the whole meaning of us being here and I think Mr. Adam can answer these question >> when you're finished. We're not back. >> I mean I'm not limited in five minutes unless somebody's >> Yeah, that's fine. >> We're going to have a discussion here. We're going to put this to bed.
>> Right. Thank you. So big big picture. We we we've come to this committee. We've met with Jimmy. We we brought you to the township. We've sent recordings, etc., etc., etc., because of afternoons and evenings. And you have an opportunity now to address this clearly as you have
for after 10 p.m. And unfortunately, my interpretation, and John, correct me if I'm wrong, my interpretation of this is is there's latitude, there's discretion, it's vague, you lack the plainly audible standard at a set distance that many of
the surrounding communities have. And this is an opportunity to address that. Those are my comments. >> I'll let John respond and then >> Yeah. Can you explain it to me and then we obviously you're still on the floor if you want. >> Thank you. >> So just plainly um I I don't have much
of a dispute. There is we do have an ordinance right now that is proposed that would create a subjective criterion for what is unnecessary or unreasonable for any hours in which there is noise that is complained of that's not strictly prohibited between certain
delineated hours. So in other words, you're correct, Mr. green and and let's envision a scenario where at 2 p.m. someone's trying to eat lunch outside and the neighbors are playing really loud, obnoxious music. What would have to happen at that point in time is that there would have to be a call to the enforcing agent and a complaint of noise
who would then have to come out and make a determination as to whether or not there is a noise that is unnecessary, unreasonable. It is subjective in that sense. However, if it occurs later in the evening during the restricted hours that we're putting in place, there is an objective test, right? If you're 100 feet or more away and you can hear it
plain plain as day, it's a violation. So, we do have these two different scenarios, right, in test and it's the first of which is sort of how your ordinance currently reads at all hours is this subjective test with an additional objective test for certain
restrictive uses contained in subsection 17.4 during certain prohibited hours. So, I I'm not arguing that that is actually what it says. Your interpretation is correct. Um, and that that's how we have set this up. We're essentially giving our code enforcement andor state police,
if they're the enforcing agent, the discretion to determine whether or not noise is unnecessary, unreasonable if it's outside of those certain restricted hours. That's what this ordinance does. >> This the subjective discretion criterion is currently in place and it's not
working. That's that's why we've come to the township on so many occasions. And I will repeat that both Sea Isle City and City of Kate May have 24 hours a day not audible past the property portal. Kate
May City of Kate May has something additional. If it's inside sound and I can read it to you. I brought it printed out with me. In if their sound is inside an institution inside a building, the windows have to be closed and you can't hear it more than 50 feet away. But for outside amplified sounds, the sound has
to the property water both for Sea Island and the city of KMA. So why can we not have the same objective standard after that you currently are proposing after 10 p.m. during evenings and
afternoons? Why would it be okay to disrupt our evenings, our time with our families on our porches to the point that we have to leave our homes during certain evenings? Why can we not address that with the same objective standard that you've proposed for night after 10
p.m. >> I think at the end of the day it comes down to do your trusty or enforcing agents, right? You're giving them subjective discretion to make a call if there is an ordinance complaint or a noise complaint. >> Yeah. As somebody who's involved early on in the process, um this was an
incremental step towards something objective to ordinance without doing a very substantive overhaul of an ordinance, right? And so, you know, in in my opinion from the meeting is um you're trying to hit a target that's moving because the intent of of the
complaint is to let the dough bill not operate and not make sound, right? In my estimation, it's to silence the dough bill is what I left that meeting with. Right? And so no matter what substantive iterative steps you take employing an ordinance, anything short of quiet time
year round on shrare, I don't think you'll ever hit the mark that that you know this contingent is is for in my opinion. That's I don't have anything else to add. >> This time we're not going to respond to
anything. I mean, yes, >> I would say pick a distance. Let it be objective. The current system of subjective determination is not working. The fact that it's not working was one of the primary drivers in getting this thing written by you. I appreciate that. You're not addressing the problem that
we brought to you. This isn't moving the needle at all on the quality of life for Strathia residents afternoons and evenings and I appreciate all the work that's gone into this. It's a big document, but you haven't addressed our primary concern. Unfortunately, >> I think it does if you follow like John
or legal council said it gives you an option, but it's up to then and the state police might determine or or zoning guy might say 2 o'clock in the afternoon, well, it's not that bad. It'll go away in an hour, you know. But
it is subject to interpretation and it is discretion >> with with respect mayor. That's what we currently have. >> Yes. And it's not working. That's what we came to. It's not working. >> What we currently have is it's not enforceable any hours of the day. This
current iteration will enforce it from 10 p.m. to 8 a.m. Currently, there's no way to enforce it at all. Right. Well, >> this is a massive improvement in what we've had currently. If we vote no for this, it'll stay the way it's been. >> Not with respect to the problem that Jimmy mentioned. The issue then he mentioned Doville. I did not. I had more
generic commercial properties. The uh planning board resolution 06 from 2021 has a sound cut off at 9:30 for the Doville both for live music and amplified sound. So anything after 10:00 doesn't impact that. Doville already
does and they comply with this. They stop at 9:30. So this new thing after 10 o'clock doesn't help us evenings and weekends and evenings and weekends many times the enforcement officers aren't available. The state police are very
busy. The cape may person who can come out with their device has to be scheduled. We have no way to assess and there's no way to enforce. That's why we implore you to come up with objective criteria. you can define the criteria
but 24 hours a day so we're not left to the subjective determination of an enforcement officer. It's just too great. That's what we need to fix. Anyway, you've heard my piece. Thank you for listening. >> Thanks. >> Is there anyone else who would like to
speak on ordinance number 14 of 2025? >> Hi, my name is Chris. I live at uh 90 West Willard Avenue in St. So um with this I just want to share an example of like how things have been enforced sometimes
in Stratbury when there is this objective situation. So we have a parking authority in Strath and I know this is this is just one example that happened to me and my family but we have a parking authority in Strathmir that you know
they're supposed to you know look out for the the citizens and when people are parking in the wrong spot and that sort of thing uh they deal with it. So last summer we had a car parked in front of our driveway. Not like a little bit. It was literally parked in front of our
driveway. My wife and I were going to a mass that was being said for both of our fathers who passed away. It took two and a half hours to get that car moved from the front of our house.
>> Okay. So >> I I I get it. Does that have anything to do with the noise ordinance? No, but it has to do with the subjective approach, >> right? >> Parking authorities is not authorized to tow. They have to all this New Jersey state police. So the >> state police were there.
>> Yes. >> And it still continued like it. So I guess my point is if if the thing is if the car should be towed, right, it should have been towed. I shouldn't have
had to wait two and a half hours for the car to be towed, which is what happened. >> And I'm sure it was a weekend and I'm sure it was in the middle of July or August and that wasn't the only illegally car parked in South Jersey with limited tow trucks. I mean,
>> I understand that, but the tow truck was never called. That's kind of my point is like exactly what you said. These problems occur in the middle of the summer on weekends when there aren't people to deal with the issue and that
is what uh Mark was saying and that's kind of what we've witnessed as citizens in Strata. I know that um Mr. Vanzite, you brought up this idea that, you know, this contingent is only happy if there's
silence from from the Doville. And I don't agree with that statement. I really don't. And one of the conditions a couple years ago when they attached the um the uh the liquor license renewal to the Doville,
they they put some restrictions on the Doville. One of those restrictions was a um a governor on their music on their amplified music outside. So there was this there was a a level that they could only play the music to. And for the
first summer after that, it was pretty good. It was better than any time before that governor went on and it was better than what's happened in the last two years when that rule just kind of faked it.
>> Well, that that rule was put in place by their planning board resolution >> and it hasn't gone away. >> It has not gone away. >> Okay. But well, okay. >> And this that planning this ordinance does not supersede that planning board resolution. >> I understand that >> board resolution is in place.
>> I understand that. But that is not being enforced because we complain, people complain that it's really noisy and it doesn't happen. And I've gone to the Doville and I've spoken to them and I've asked, they said, "Listen, man. I'm in the my backyard
with headphones on garden and I can hear your music. Could you just turn it down a little bit?" I mean, that's not an unreasonable request. I'm listening to headphones music on my headphones in my backyard
and I can hear the music coming from the do you cannot tell me that they are operating with that governor on their sound machine. Right. So that's I think the the complaint isn't I
I I appreciate what you're doing. And I think what you're doing is great and I do think it's a first step, but when it is that subjective and it is a pain for someone to come out and listen to us and I and that's I get
that. But when it's not being enforced by the township and it's not being enforced by the people have the rules set, you know, that they are supposed to follow and they're not following them.
we you know we we do feel helpless and so I think that's the point that if those things are are clear and made clear to the uh the businesses or whoever to the citizens all these people
whatever that are engaging in this activity that's fine but it it just doesn't seem that it's being enforced the next question I have for you is what is the difference if you're sitting in
your home and you hear a leaf blower or you're sitting in your home and you hear music? What is the difference? >> Absolutely none. >> Okay. Then why are we restricting when leaf blowers can operate at a
different time than we are when music? >> Because what happened years ago, all our neighboring municipalities, Ocean City, Avalon, Harbor Sea landscapers were done at 6:00. Then it looked like the seagulls leaving the
landfill. They converge on track and till dark. You have leaf blowers and mowers going. >> Again, my question is what's the difference? You can now have that same music that you could hear inside your home with the windows shut and your
television on. >> So, but are that was to control the landscapers because the landscapers were out of control. Okay. >> But if you've been in Strat for more than five years, you knew it happened. You see him come over the bridge. >> But I I guess what I'm saying is what's
the difference? In the end, you have a business making noise after 5:00 and it's a landscaper, right? Noise that is annoying to the people inside their homes who are trying to eat dinner. Then you have another
business that's making noise after five o' winners and losers here. Everyone, >> but you are because your time is different. >> Well, we're trying to write an ordinance to cover the whole township. We're not to target one business.
>> Strath is not the only municipality or burrow in upper township. >> I understand others and this ordinance has to not be Strathmir specific. It has to be for the entire township. I do understand. I'm not asking it to be strapped here specifically. >> It sounds like you are, >> but
>> you're talking about I had a feeling this was going to get here and I'm sure it's going to get worse. My suggestion and you can adhere to it or not would be to hear the comments from the members of the public and respond when they're finished. Otherwise, we're going to get into a tit for tat. We're going to be here till 11 o'clock tonight. That's what's going to happen.
>> And and that's fair. And and I'm not again, maybe I'm not being clear with that analogy, but if you're if you're sitting in your home and it's 8 o'clock anywhere in in the in upper township and it's because of a noise blow, you know,
a leaf blower and you make a rule saying, well, you can't do that after a certain time, right? But other noise after that certain time is acceptable, right? How is that treating everybody the same?
>> Landscaping businesses and restaurant businesses are not the same. >> I'm not Okay, let's just say that your next door neighbor has a band that plays every Friday night, >> right? >> So, I can I just I'll respond quickly.
When you look at the determination as to unreasonable or unnecessary noise, right? This is spelled out right in the ordinance. One of the factors to consider is whether the noise is unreasonable or unnecessary in relation to historical or customary uses or activities. Historically, people don't go out and blow their leaf blower and do
landscaping at 9:00 at night. However, commercial businesses that are licensed premises often have live music beyond those hours. I think you have to consider these things in different perspectives, not all in one pot. >> I appreciate that answer. I do and thank you for that. That that helps me put
that into perspective. All right, that's a that's a phenomenal answer and I appreciate it. I do. Um, so when we came here to bring our complaints and our concerns, they were very specific and
they were within those hours that preceded 10 o'clock and 9:30 really. I mean, the one thing about the Doville is they do stop at 9:30. they don't really push it ever. Um there was a time when they did, but then that was
taken care of with that uh what I referred to earlier about the u the restrictions that were put on that. >> Actually, if you look at this ordinance, we've given you a lot more than you ask for as far as like construction times and all that. I mean, we're stopping stuff that people don't even realize was
>> and to and to right right now >> to Curtis's point too with some of the restrictions that we have in place, it also alleviates not just the noise ordinance, but also it gives you parking as well because of it puts like kind of a parameter in that regard too. >> Right now you can have a construction
project in Strath Mirgo seven days a week. We've eliminated that during the season. We've eliminated holidays. I mean, right now with the if you have a non-traditional American crew,
they they work holidays. They will I mean, so you can have a crew of framers framing the house next to you on a Sunday morning. Do you want to wake up to that if your neighbors remodeled? Nobody does. You can't even get a day off.
That's so this ordinance is actually given a lot more And I I understand that, but >> it's a it's a balancing act. >> I and I and I get that. I understand that you as as as the the committee and the mayor and the council have to treat
it as such. But personally, it doesn't matter to me what the noise is. It's the noise. >> Yes. >> Right. So it doesn't matter where it's coming from. So that's that's that.
That's how I feel um about that. So, I just hope that as this moves forward and we and we get into that period that the that you know, if these things come up, if they are a concern as the the year goes on and as
the summer begins and that sort of thing, that enforcement is taken seriously and that, you know, we do have some kind of a, you know, a say and hopefully a a fix for the problems
But >> you know, I guess it remains to be seen. >> So, thank you, man. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Ted Kingston, 5 East Willard in Strathmore. I support the ordinance that you do. I
hope you approve it tonight. That doesn't mean everything is great. my neighbors, I'm here to support them. This has been going on for five years. The idea that you're taking incremental steps, but that you don't feel that the
neighbors would ever be satisfied. I think as a community, the people that live in Strathmir are extremely accommodating of the businesses in town and go way beyond. I sit on the planning board and I hear
some of the people on the mainland complaining when something's going on on their street. It's like we passed that in Strathmir like 40 years ago. These people have been complaining about the Doville and the noise since
the planning board resolution five years ago. So while I hope you pass this, I'm asking you to swing hard like there needs to be some relief. And you know, one of the I don't go over and survey what the
Doville is doing every day. Somebody just told me the tent has been taken down, but the tent is up like forever. I don't know what I forget what we said in the planning board resolution, but that tent is up way more than what was specified in the planning board
resolution. And that tent is where the weddings are and the noise. That's where a lot of it generates. Like push back. If they won't turn down the noise, tell them they can't have the tent. Like come on, man. I mean, five
years, it's time to stop pussyfooting around and push back. You have cards to play. Like, make them stop the noise. You know, I understand the ordinances for the whole township and all. That's great.
But, you know, you've got people that have been I'm far enough away. I run the air conditioner in the summertime. I don't hear it that much. But when you go outside, you hear. And if I was live where these neighbors
live, it's unbearable. And if you live there, you'd be here like bitching, too. Like, give these people some relief somehow. So pass this ordinance, but make it stop. The the noise needs to
stop. It's just tell them to take down that freaking tent, you know, and then see where it's see what the volume is. Like push back. >> Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, Mr. >> Hello. Amy Lombardo, 90 West Willard.
Um, Tyler, you know, for what you said, I only know Strathmir because I've only ever lived there since 1999. So, I can't compare myself to offshore upper township. Um, I want to see the Doville succeed. I want to see it do really well. I want to
enjoy going there. Um, I just I need to understand how to make this enforceable and I need to understand on a Friday at six o'clock when my house is pumping with base like what as a resident of
Upper Township I can do to enforce this. >> John, yeah, I there's a section of the proposed ordinance that indicates who the enforcing agents are at specific times. In order to make it enforceable, you have to contact that applicable
enforcing agent and tell them to get out there. There's a problem, come out and and view it. And if in fact it's a problem, we have to they've got to cite it, right? It's subjective. So, they're going to make the ultimate determination if it's outside of those hours, but they they've got to act in the event that
it's unnecessary or unreasonable. That's how this reads. >> So, there's somebody we can call on a Friday, Saturday that needs to come I mean, or go on for four hours, so they got plenty of time to get there. >> Yes. Yeah, >> there is there listed specifically in
section 17.6 of what we're proposing. >> Previously, there was no routine for them to come out and enforce this type of action, >> right? We didn't list them as an enforcing agent in our in our ordinance. >> And that would be doing normal business day hours would be code enforcement through town hall.
>> So that's Monday through Friday though, right? >> Monday through Friday >> till 4:30 >> till probably 4. Okay. >> Right. whatever our business hours at the township are. >> The other avenue is parking authority is working Friday, Saturday or Sunday,
which they traditionally are. >> Mhm. >> They also double as code enforcement. >> Okay. >> They can be notified. If that fails, the New Jersey state police. So when I notify a parking authority, because I see them all the time because
they're always in front, you know, on our street, >> what do they have the capability of doing? the parking authority code enforcement. >> They can actually issue violations. >> I mean, the first thing they would do is probably knock on the door and ask them
to turn it down. >> Mhm. >> If that didn't succeed, it would escalate to a summon. >> Correct. >> Okay. And is there any possibility of going back to a governor for the music
because it really was not that bad for two summers. >> I don't know. >> The only thing I'd say is if that was a restriction contained in the planning board's resolution, then absolutely. It's still effective. >> That would have to be researched at this level. I I couldn't answer that if
that's still in. >> So, we have to find out if that's still enforceable. >> It should be as long. >> If it's in the resolution, then it's it's going to be enforceable. That's just a different body than this. The the planning board is not the the committee. We can research it though and find out.
>> Okay. I appreciate it. I appreciate everything you're doing. I know you put a lot of time in. >> There is teeth to disordance. It's just sometimes you don't want to really chew on the bone if you don't have to. >> Right. And I know there's a lot. It's a big >> I'm hope
>> of noise, but I only know what affects me and that's what affects me and that's why I'm here. I'm not pointing the finger. >> Hope the reporters here do are doing a great job. >> I'm hoping the businesses in place see this report and actually take notice and turn it
down. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> We are going to try and like if we have to revisit it again, we will, but right now this is a lot better than anything we have now and we're probably going to adopt this tonight. I can't speak for my
colleagues, but it might be subject to changing again >> if it doesn't work. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Ba. >> Certainly. >> Just for the record, she needs you.
>> Yeah. Chris Kicki 90 West Willard. >> Um, one of the concerns I remember I came back with before was um delivery trucks in the more like 5:00 a.m. 6 a.m. in the summer, things like that. How is that
where does that fall in this? when can >> that's something that's not one of I guess it would be an unreasonable noise but I can tell you I live across I live on the mainland >> I live across the street from Echoarm campground >> they have
>> they have a front loading dumpster service they've come in at 5:00 in the morning >> and I've sat straight up in bed and I live >> 200 feet off the road >> Yeah. >> So it's Is that an reasonable noise? An unreasonable noise. Yeah.
>> Is that something that this ordinance would control? No, not really. >> Okay. >> Um it's kind of they get deliveries and and you know it's just like they don't they don't pump their septic before 8, but you living right across the street
from the Duville can have Capri come your septic at 7 a.m. >> Right. When's it not fair? >> Right. Uh and well that's what I was wondering and it you know so this doesn't deal with
anything like that but I guess the question is could it I mean could >> is that I mean I mean you're talking talking about one business but the other business can get a delivery early >> well the
only other thing I'd say and Ted you may be able to play on this it's probably part of the planning board resolute solution as restrictions on hours of of delivery. I would think again I can't say with certainty, right? >> But those are the types of things that would typically during a site plan review I think be considered by that body, >> right?
>> And in the event that that's a condition of any approval that they give, we can't change it. >> It that that is their requirement. >> Oh, so there could actually be a requirement is what you're saying. Yeah, we could have something in an ordinance, but if the planning board wants to be more restrictive to an individual entity
or business that wants to operate and they put that in a resolution, the more restrictive standard is what's going to govern against that individual or entity. >> And a lot of these businesses, and I'm not saying it is, but like Kramer Beverage comes or US food or whatever, they're coming out of Philadelphia and
they have a list of delivery stops. They're not going to change these stops to accommodate one business. They're just not going to go there. Um, and I'll take it a step further. We had >> Township was in violation of its own orders, >> whatever. I mean, we had this situation
with the portaotties on the beach. >> Now, could you imagine renting a house, beachfront house, 8 10,000 >> and a week and then all of a sudden here comes Star to pump the portaotti out at two in the morning. >> Right. >> I mean, we nip that in the bud, but I
mean, I got some great videos of of two in the morning. a couple times over. >> Uh so, >> so we have >> Okay, so >> we were lucky because it was a contract and we could get that changed. >> Sure. >> But some of these delivery trucks if
they're coming out of Philadelphia or Pleasantville or whatever. I mean, sometimes that's not something we have any control or even the business. If they want the delivery, this is when it comes deal with it. >> Right. That said though, I I'll just that being the case and I don't think
it's inaccurate. I think you're right. If it's occurring outside of restricted hour during restricted hours, it's still technically it's still a violation that that can be enforced regardless of whether or not they're out of luck if they don't take delivery during the allowable times. >> So,
>> right. So, what would be what under this ordinance, what would be the allowable time? >> Well, I guess if it was an unreasonable noise, >> anytime. >> Anytime. Sure. Sure. Sure. But
Okay. All right. Thank you. >> I'll let you come back. >> You want to try to get this? >> I'm just going to follow up on your response to Amy when she asked about the mechanisms for enforcement. And I understand during working hours that
there's parking enforcement, but I also recall having read the minutes of these meetings that in 2024 there was a cost sharing arrangement between the Doville and the township for reimbursement of the parking officer salary. There was um that really has nothing to
do with our salary ordinance or our our ordinance noise ordinance but what happened there was a cost sharing because they were policing the duo which we've stopped doing that. >> Okay. So that cost sharing arrangement doesn't exist any longer because it would be I think a conflict of interest
if someone's salary was being supported by the entity that it needed to police. >> You're absolutely right that was put in place by the last administration. And basically I thought it was almost like extortion.
>> So it's no longer in place. Is that do I understand that correctly? >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. Thank you, >> Chris. Just to cut because I'm looking at this a little further. I think number 16 would would be applicable to your scenario. And the hours in which it
would be allowable is after 6:00 am, but it looks like between the hours of 6 PM and 6 a.m. it would be restricted. That's that's how I'm reading the ordinances drafted. I think what you're talking about would fall into this exception there. Or this restriction, I should say. >> Deliveries.
>> Deliveries would fall into that. Yes. >> Yes. What time did the deliveries happen? >> But it would be >> Yeah. >> Not just one business, it' be all the business. >> Yes. Okay. Yeah.
>> Well, what happens? And I don't know exactly what happens, but I can tell you I'm familiar with delies because I like delies. They they get their bread and rolls delivered and some of that's 3:30, 4:00 in the morning. >> And it's sitting outside on the doorstep
and you know >> Yes. >> Yeah. Is there any board public comment? >> Yes, sir. >> My name is John Cameron. I was in a couple weeks ago talking about the noise ordinance part.
Kind of expounded on that a little bit. I'd like to uh just let you guys hear what I was dealing with a couple years ago. I remember >> remember you were here. >> You lived on Poet's Woods if I remember
>> with a garage band next door. >> That wasn't the garage band. That was 10 years ago. This was about three years ago. >> Okay. >> Needless to say, the noise ordinance that was in effect at the time both times was worthless. >> Yes, it was. >> This
>> I can just I'm going to tell you my personal experience with the this incident here. This went on every day, five days a week, Monday through Friday, 8 to 4, 9 to5. I had the state police come out multiple
times to deal with this problem. And basically, I was told using the old noise ordinance that it's we can't enforce it. It won't work. It's too subjective. So
just expounding more on what Mark says, the subjective nature of the ordinance outside of the prohibited limits is worthless. It cannot be enforced. It the plainly audible standard should be in in
effect 247. That's the only way this thing is going to work. I'm telling you from personal experience, it will not work. Subjectivity does not work. Mayor, if you came out and heard that, you might say, "I like the music. Not so bad, not so loud." Or the other scenario might be
you go, you're the enforcing person at that point. You go over and tell Mr. Neighbor guy, "Hey, it's too loud. Lower it." He lowers it. He or she lowers it to a level that you think is acceptable, but I don't. It still becomes, you know,
you thinking what you think. I think what I think, and it's all subjective. So I just want to reinforce that the way the noise ordinance is written out and >> I will say it is much improved over what it was which is what we were talking
what you were talking about before >> it's better to have what we have what you're proposing than what currently exists but it is not going to be effective during those hours beyond the prohibited hours
particularly when it applies to music, amplified sound, that kind of thing there. There's plenty of plenty of cities and townships around us that have 247 plainly audible standards. Why can't we have it in this township? And I
understand it's kind of unique when you're when you live around a business that has music. That's not my situation. I don't have any danger of that in my and there's plenty of neighborhoods like mine. Southgate, you know, Windgate,
Calonia, they don't have any danger of, you know, a business playing music. And I sympathize with all folks dealing with that. That's not my situation. What I'm dealing with is somebody that wants to play loud music, amplified music, you know, seven, eight hours a day. And
>> I have a feeling our code enforcement officer would find that eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. I don't think uh I think that's something code enforcement would take up quite seriously as a complaint and with this new one. >> I I really can't I'm sorry. I really can't hear you. >> If you had I'm hard of hearing too on that music.
>> If you had 40 hours a week consistently of Garage Band music from your neighbor, I have a feeling code enforcement would subjectively view that as unreasonable noise and the teeth would sink in with this. >> Correct.
>> Correct. may not be loud to you or the mayor. >> That's why I said that's why we have our code enforcement officials. They make subjective calls like this every day. And with an ordinance that they can kind of sink their teeth into more, I think they'll be more willing to
step up and write ordinances and citations, excuse me, knowing that uh they have more teeth and have more cause action. >> I agree with you 100%. That's that's where you have the teeth is when it's objective and not subjective. When it's subjective, it has no teeth whatsoever.
It's all just your opinion, my opinion on what's loud, what's noisy, what's reasonable, what's unnecessary. So, >> I think anybody, whether it was our local code enforcement or the state police, if if they were standing in your backyard and heard that,
>> they would agree that it's >> mayor, they were. And one of the tr and I don't even I don't want to point in the previous ordinance. >> But the previous ordinance, >> wait a minute. No, because you were talking about when it when the noise occurs outside of the prohibited hours,
then it becomes subjective. That's what this noise was going on at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I had the troopers out there and one of them said, "I don't think it's that loud, so we're not going to approach the person." Another one at another time said, "Yes, we will go over." And they went over. You know, the
noise got, you know, the music got turned down a couple of degrees, but it was still loud. >> Still subjective. And the trooper said, "F, you know, he turned it down and everything's fine." But to me, it was still loud. >> It's made you deaf. >> What's that?
>> It made you deaf. >> It did contribute. >> But I agree with that. You know, you know, I that kind of noise, that kind of music is is disturbing. you know, it it it can definitely uh you know, ruin your quality of life. I mean, you know, I I does it's that kind of noise is not
necessary at all. >> I think this ordinance is going to help. If it if this ordinance doesn't work, we'll take it to the next level. But I think if we don't do this ordinance is we we almost need to do this ordinance because we've got so much work into it.
And if it doesn't work, if we can't enforce it or it becomes, then we'll take to the next level. But right now, I think with this proposed ordinance, I think it's going to give the New Jersey State Police, it's going to give our code enforcement, it's going to give
them the ability to take action. >> It won't during the, >> you know, outside. >> That's all going to say that. >> Thanks. >> Thank you, John. I want you to hear that. >> That sounds like a car on the park.
>> It's not a car in a park. You listen, you listen to that 8:00, 9:00 at night, couple hours, weekends, nights, >> that's a basketball being bounced, slamming against a ring. So, I was brought that up the last time
about recreational style noise. If the ordinance can be more specific, not just, you know, what's, you know, what's loud or unnecessary, >> more specific to recreational style noise. This is beyond the music part of it.
>> Now, that's a like is a basketball net set up in the driveway or something. >> Exactly. I got one of these. I got one on either side of me, two of them in front of me, one behind me. So, that's what you get to hear. And I'm not trying to stop people from having fun and
recreing doing things like that, but there should be in this case I think there should be some prohibited hours for recreational style noise. I'm not saying 247 on that because how you going to really monitor
that? But I feel strongly that if you're subjected to that kind of noise or any other kind of recreational style noise, what if somebody decides to set up a a paddle ball, a temporary paddle ball net on in their driveway and start doing paddle ball back and forth, you know what that paddle ball sounds like when
that ball hits that hits that paddle. >> We have new pickle ball courts they can go to. Make sure you tell them >> you could say the you could say the same thing about playing basketball. Why don't you just go to the park and play? But, you know, not everybody has the ability to get to a park. Yeah. >> So, I understand that. Hey, listen. I was a kid. I had a basketball thing in
my yard. >> I did it. >> Well, I'm just thinking, >> okay, >> it's amazing that the kids out actually playing basketball instead of sitting on the computer. >> Yeah. I mean, you know. >> Yeah. >> And it happens often often enough and I listen, I close my windows, put my TV
on, whatever, but you can still hear the pounding and the banging and all that kind of stuff. >> And again, I don't want to stop people from recreating, having fun. That's not my point. My point is there should be some limits on when that noise takes place. Kind like same thing with you know landscaping and all the blowers and
lawnmowers and construction. So I don't know if that if the township would consider something like that when it specifically when it's dealing with recreational style noise just you know any kind of noise. It's got to be more specific like you are with construction
like you are with music. It's got to be specific. So that's, you know, that was kind of my uh >> just out of curiosity. So that was 8 o'clock at night. >> That was like 8:30, 9 o'clock at night. >> What time of year was it? >> That was that was that was probably a couple days ago.
>> Okay. >> It was dark. >> Obviously, there's street light out there. >> You know, like a spotlight, whatever. Again, I don't want to stop kids from having fun. That's not my point. I have, you know, I got grandkids are going to grow up. They're going to have fun. They're going to do make noise. I understand all that stuff. I was a kid. I did it myself. But I just want to ask
if there's a way to incorporate that into the new ordinance at some point. >> At some point maybe, but it's not >> I know it's not going to happen with this one, but >> yeah. >> I mean, what's it going to take to get something like that to happen? A 100 people coming in complaining or just me?
>> Well, I think it's a it's a viable complaint. It's not the first one. I remember there used to be on White Oak gentleman by the name of D McD passed away. He was He had a problem with basketball and then uh years ago Ted Cleback I
don't know if you remember >> I remember sure I remember >> he lived behind me backed up to the firehouse the firehouse I was a member at the time this was in the 80s you put basketball hoop out back he raised hell about that >> I said Ted you're not going to beat him why don't you just join the firehouse and he did
>> that was >> I understand so Mr. Mayor, my question is what would it take to get that more, you know, on the radar? >> Right now, what we need to do is just move on this and then revisit as we go by. >> Revisit it. >> Maybe. Who knows? Let's just see how this goes first.
>> I mean, that could be that could classify as an unreasonable noise. >> It depends on when it happens. I understand during the day. What are we going to do? I'm not have a problem with that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you, John. Thank you for >> Is there anyone else who would like to
comment on ordinance number 14 of 2025? >> Hearing no more public input, we will close the public in portion of ordinance number 14 of 2025. And we're going to just have another discussion before we ask for a motion to approve
um or adopt. John is if we were to change to from let's say the the ordinance is that a substance change if we were so that >> yes >> we would not be able to adopt it if we changed it to >> yeah if you were going to object different or if you were going to
prescribe a different criteria for evaluating noise >> that would be you'd have to renotice start the process over again which yeah we don't want that would be set in respect >> but this could be amended in the future
if it had to >> anytime you wanted to it could >> yes >> I'm just wanted that on the record but if we were to change it >> we'd have to go through the or the me to start over and >> my opinion is it is yes >> yes
>> well hearing that gentleman what is your pleasure adopt. >> I'll make a motion to adopt ordinance number 14, 2022. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Is there anybody else who would like to comment on this?
>> Okay. At this time, we'll call the role. >> Mr. Cassaceio, yes. >> Mr. Nefen. >> Yes. >> Mr. San Palumbo? >> Yes. >> Mr. Zack Palumbo? Yes. May >> Coren? >> Yes. Motion carried. >> If we see this is not working, we will be right back here.
Okay. Payment of bills. What's your pleasure on the bills, gentlemen? >> I hereby move that all claims submitted for payment at this meeting be approved and then incorporated in full in the meeting in the minutes of this meeting. >> Second. >> Would you like to abstain on some? >> No.
>> Okay. Please call the role. >> Mr. Cassatio. Yes. >> Mr. Nappen. Yes. >> Mr. Sam Palumbo. Yes. >> Mr. Zack Palumbo. >> Yes. >> Mayor Corson. >> Yes. Motion carried. >> At this time, we'll open up for public comment. Is there anybody would like to address
the town committee on any subject at all? At this time, we'll close the public portion and uh move to entertain a motion to go into close session. I hereby move that a resolution be incorporated into the minutes authorizing the township committee to
enter into executive session for the following matters pursuant to open public meetings act. Matters are as followed. One, pending litigation sharp versus upper township. Two, safety and security cyber security. Three, contract negotiation cannabis licensing. Four,
contract negotiation annual annual appointments. I also include in my motion the estimated time and circumstances under which the discussion conducted in close session can be disclosed as follows. The it is anticipated that the matters discussed in close session may be disclosed to the
public upon the determination that the township committee that the public interest will no longer be served by such confidentiality with respect to contract negotiations. Such matters will be made public when negotiations have ceased and there is no longer a reason for confidentiality. With respect to
litigation matters, such discussions will be made public when litigation is complete and the full appeal period has expired. >> Second. >> Please call the role. >> Mr. Cassaceio, yes. >> Mr. Nap, yes. >> Mr. San Palumbo, >> yes. >> Mr. Zach Palumbo, >> yes. >> Mayor Corson. >> Yes. >> Motion carried.
>> We're going to take a brief intermission. I need to refill my coffee. Congrats on how we win.