WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=iFO4GlNajIQ

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: iFO4GlNajIQ):
- 00:00:01: Meeting Call to Order and Initial Formalities
- 00:01:30: Authorizing Budget Reading by Title Only; Preamble
- 00:03:06: Budget Introduction, Explanation and Public Comment
- 00:04:11: Public Comment #1 - Tim Cryer on Budget Hearing
- 00:05:05: Public Comment #1 - (cont) Budget Suggestions, Concerns
- 00:12:56: Commission Discussion of the Budget and Defending Increase
- 00:26:56: Motion to Amend Budget and Open Discussion
- 00:27:54: Municipal Fire Department Capital Expenditure Discussion
- 00:34:59: Public Works Bond Issue for Equipment and Improvements
- 00:39:45: Hold on Public Works Improvements Pending Fuel Station
- 00:40:56: Minutes, Ordinances, Resolutions, and Tax Abatements
- 00:44:09: Workshop: Recreation Fees, Focus on Pickleball Fee
- 00:50:17: Commissioners Discuss Pickleball Fee Options
- 00:56:20: Comparables & Legal Opinions on Two-Tiered Fees
- 00:59:01: Consultant Suggests Focusing on Actual Cost Impact
- 01:00:35: Amending Resolution and Moving to Public Portion
- 01:02:30: Public Comment #2 - Tim Cryer, Recreation Commission Figures
- 01:03:55: Public Comment #3 - Pat Harrian, Partnership with the City
- 01:11:04: Public Comment #4 - Beth Torsiello, Concerns about Access
- 01:14:26: Public Comment #5 - Lance Conn, Losing people to other locations
- 01:16:59: Public Comment #6 - Barbara Lombardo, Senior Discount Discussion
- 01:18:19: Public Comment #7 - Diane Burkeback, Recreation Board Member
- 01:26:12: Public Comment #8 - Barbara Miller Balm, Sign Up Genius is free
- 01:27:02: Public Comment #9 - Chris Brennan, Lack of Communication
- 01:28:06: Public Comment #10 - Jack Fineberg, Revenue Source Rejected
- 01:31:14: Public Comment #11 - Paul Rogers, Inclusivity and Fondest Thing
- 01:34:33: Public Comment #12 - Bill Saban, When Does Court Open?
- 01:36:28: Public Comment #13 - Beth Torsello, Will this open up?
- 01:37:04: Reaching Agreement on $100/$120 Rate; Court Reserve
- 01:41:40: Other Court Improvements, Closing Public Portion
- 01:44:59: Formal Meeting: Approve Minutes, Hearings, Ordinances, Amendments
- 01:50:15: Revenue & Finance Committee: Upcoming Events
- 01:52:27: Public Works, Engineering, and Landscaping Updates
- 01:56:43: Updates on Junior Lifeguard Program and Beach Tags
- 02:01:47: Public Comment #14 - Ken Moscow, Thank you for addressing issue
- 02:05:37: Public Comment #15 - Tim Cryer, Right to Speak Freely
- 02:09:22: Adjournment


Part: 1

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Good evening everybody. Sounds official. >> Good evening everybody. Welcome to the May 28th, 2026 commission meeting. Jim, I'm sorry if I jumped the gun there. Is everybody uh in the Zoom platform? Okay. >> Yep. You're good to go. >> All right. So, I call to order the

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meeting. Uh please rise for the flag salute. Pledgiance to the flag of the United States of Americ. >> Thank you. >> Lisa, may I have a roll call, please? >> Commissioner Lang Grant, >> here. >> Commissioner Mento,

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>> here. >> Mayor Creable >> here. Thank you. Uh, Lisa, would you like to read the open public meetings announcement? Pursuant to the Open Public Meetings Act, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. The agenda for this meeting is posted in city hall and on the city's website.

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>> Thank you. Would you please leave read the live stream announcement? >> The city of Vander offers live streaming and the option of public comment via remote access as a convenience to the public. In the event remote access is unavailable for any reason beyond the city's control, the city will not pause

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or stop the live meeting. The city reserves the right to discontinue remote access at the discretion of the city for any future meetings. >> Thank you. So, we have a a slightly different um organization,

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excuse me, this evening. We have uh we first need a resolution the city of Ventner County of Atlantic State of New Jersey authorizing the budget to be read by title only. Um, may I have a motion?

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>> I'll make that motion. >> I have a second. >> Second. >> Lisa, roll call, please. >> Commissioner Langra, >> yes. >> Commissioner Mento, >> yes. >> Mayor Creable. >> Thank you. Um, there is a slight there's a short preamble to that that I'd like to read. And if uh and then after I'd

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like to have um uh Leon if you have any any comments to make on that >> on the read by title only. >> Uh read by title only. >> Yeah. is all that means is that the budget's almost 100 pages long and the clerk would have to read every line of

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it if you don't make that statement. So you just saved her a lot of time, >> right? So whereas um this budget provides to be read by title only at the time of the public hearing, if a resolution is passed by not less than a majority, the full

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governing body provided providing that at least one week prior to the date of the hearing, a completed copy of the approved budget is advertised and has been posted in the municipal building and copies have been made available by the city clerk to persons requiring

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them. And whereas these two conditions have been met. So that preamble has been read into the record. Uh um do we have any um would you like to make any comments on the budget itself? I think we had uh discussion the three of us. Would you like have any any comments

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before we move on to the next uh >> yeah tonight's actual public hearing. So the budget that was presented for introduction back in April, it's the same budget that we have tonight for adoption. there'll be one minor change that you make that shifts uh two items of revenue, one up, one down by the same

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amount. So there's there's no change in the total budget. So it's the same budget that was introduced. Uh there have been no comments, no questions brought by anybody that that I know of. And now it's time that you open it to the public. Let them comment on the budget and we'll field any questions

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that they have. >> Okay. All right. Um so uh we have um we can now open it to the public if there's anyone in the public that can make a comment on the budget as has been

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reported. There will be one uh small one resolution adopting to amend the budget which is a net zero no change in the numbers no change in the budget simply the um uh two line items uh that is a net zero change.

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So, if anyone uh here in the public would like to make a comment about the budget, please step forward, state your name and address. >> Good evening, Tim Chryser, Ventner City. >> You're speaking on the mic. We couldn't hear anything. >> Tim Cryer, Ventner City. >> Thank you.

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Is there a reason the uh public hearing and the resolution is on the workshop agenda and not on the regular work meeting agenda? >> Tom, uh it's just a matter of timing. The the meeting was advertised to start at 5:30,

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so that's that's why. >> Okay. Thank you. So, uh I do have some questions, comments, concerns, suggestions for the budget. Uh, I will try to be as

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efficient as possible uh in order to comply with the three minute time limit uh for public input. Uh, and again, if I say anything that's incorrect, I'm sure Leon will correct me, but I certainly don't want to disseminate any false information. So, if I have any of my

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fingers wrong, please point them out to me. I understand this may ultimately come down to a philosophical difference in budgeting priorities. However, however, as I've raised previously, I believe the city should have a great use a greater percentage of the available

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surplus to reduce the tax increase imposed on residents, particularly in a year when taxpayers are facing increase of more than 6 cents and a $75 or 10% increase in water and sewer flat rates. Residents are already dealing with

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rising costs for food, gasoline, utilities, medical expenses, and other necessities. Many are under significant financial pressure and could benefit from additional relief. A substantial portion of this surplus exists because

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certain 2025 budget accounts were funded above actual expenditures. In many respects, this is taxpayer money that has already been collected. I believe the current budget utilizes 50.8% 8% of the budget or of the available surplus.

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Does that sound about right? >> The budget is using 4,620,000 of 9,078. So it's slightly more than 50%. >> Okay. Uh I would suggest that increasing that

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figure to 56.8%. it would still be remain below the 59% that you used last year while gaining an additional $544,772 in revenue. That adjustment could reduce a tax increase by almost 2.5 cents,

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which would represent approximately a 40% reduction in the proposed increase. Even with that additional use of surplus, the city will still maintain an estimate surplus balance of approximately 3.9 million, which remains well above the 3.1 million balance

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carried into the 2025 budget. For comparison purposes, Margate reportedly what I could see, utilize approximately 64% of its surplus while still maintaining a remaining balance of more than three million. My recommendation would provide

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meaningful relief to taxpayers without jeopardizing the city's financial stability and I respectfully ask the governing body to consider it. I would like to also commend the CFO for increasing interest earnings on investments and deposits to

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approximately $932,000. Whether this was primarily market driven or a result of a more aggressive investment strategy, this dollar amount seems in line with other municipalities. Question. Does a city engage any company

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to provide cash management flow advice? >> It's Mike. Um, forgive me. We do. >> We use the uh New Jersey cash management um NJRM So you do have somebody that provides

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advice. Okay, good. Thank you. Um, knowing the city must track your expenditures and revenues throughout the year. This significant tax increase should not have come as a surprise. Based on that is uh my opinion that the

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city should have moved quicker earlier this year to sell the two Veter Avenue properties at the beginning of this year rather than wait until now. Had these properties been marketed and sold earlier, the proceeds could have been uh used to offset this year's tax increase

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by another 1.3 cents and reduce the uh economic burden being now being placed on taxpayers. I'll I'll touch base on that if I can, Tim. >> Sure. >> We tried to sell these properties twice now. >> Twice >> this year. >> Within the last three years, we've tried to sell these properties twice.

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>> I understand. >> And we've got no bids on them. >> I agree. I understand. >> So, we reappraised them, lowered that appraised value a little bit, and we're trying again. >> I just wish you would have done it earlier in the year. >> I wish I would have sold them two years ago. I >> I I wish you would have too, but you didn't. And so, it's my suggestion that

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wish you would have acted quicker to put them on the market. I can wish it didn't rain last weekend for Memorial Day. So, >> keep moving. >> A lot of wishes here and a lot of wishes. >> There is a lot of >> the taxpayers. >> That being said, I'm sorry. Did I do I

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am muse you as as as the god not the godfather. What was it? Uh, good fellas. Do I amuse you or Okay. Yeah, I'll tell you the residents paying 6 cents tax increase and 10% increase in

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property and water and sewer rates are not laughing. At least I don't think they are. What do I know? Uh so if they were sold earlier, if it was combined with my earlier suggestions to use a larger portion of the surplus,

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the revenue from these property sales could have potentially reduced this increase to approximately two 2.2 2 cents. That level of increase would have been more consistent with surrounding communities and significantly more manageable for residents than the

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current 6centent increase being proposed in the 10% increase in water and sewer. While selling the property later in 2026 may certainly improve the city's financial position for 2027, many residents need tax relief now. That

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raises a fair question. Why was improving next year's budget picture prioritized over reducing the financial impact on taxpayers this year? The city budget is $410,000 under uh classification utility fund ex

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expense allocation. My understanding that this is money that the water and sewer utility pays back to the city for expenses that are initially charged to the city from the general budget. Is this accurate? Yes, that is what the money's for. How

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>> how does that $410,000 determined? >> By let's just take the example of the tax office downstairs. They handle both the water and sewer collections and the tax collections. Even though the numbers are bigger in the tax side of it, the

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number of transactions are equal. So approximately 50% of each gets allocated to make up that 410,000. >> So in her department, you have purchase orders, >> governor officials, Mr. check her own everything >> they all so that figure goes into that 410,000

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>> do I looked at the water and sewer utility budget uh I do not see any expense for health for benefits or for pension contributions >> it's another expense >> are they attributed to the budget to the general budget

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>> it's it's in the utility other expenses >> other expenses >> yeah it's not separated >> all right thank Uh so leaving that out that the city could have with a uh greater use of the

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surplus and putting the properties up for sale could have reduced the uh tax increase on the public. Well, I can see that I'm well over my three minutes. the rest that I have to say I'll leave for another time uh

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uh in another forum. So, thank you for letting me exceed my three minutes and uh thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Um Commissioner Mento, do you have any comments on the budget? >> Just Commission Lang,

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>> look, we don't like raising these these taxes. It's not something we enjoy up here. We worked through this budget. We did something what about five months a four months ago or so that got us out of the state health plan. That would have increased our health benefits for

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our our staff, all of our staff by 36 to 37%. That's what the state health plan went up this year for everybody else who stayed in it. We were able to use our our insurance uh consultant, Terry Flynn. He got us finally out of that system. He tried for years to get us

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out. Um, no one wants a small municipality with a lot of elder elder older folks that are that work for us. They don't want those health issues. So, no health plan wants us. Terry was able to find something where it's a self-insured blend that saved us about

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16, no more than that. About what? 18%. >> The difference between 37% and 14%. >> Yeah. So, that saved us. Yes. Still an increase. still a 14 or 15% increase, but it's not 37% increase that we would have had to have paid if we stayed in

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that system. Um, there's always second guessing to everything you do up here, and we understand that there's there's better way there's we hope we find the best way to do things. Um, we've tried to sell these properties. One is an unbuildable parcel um that's been in the city's

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ownership for for many years. Um, there is interest with one of the adjoining property owners. We hope that they now will purchase it this time. Um, the one that we purchased that is on Ventner Avenue here right in in the downtown that was a fire. We purchased it from

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the owner for a very little amount of money um because they were going to let it go to a use that we didn't think was appropriate for downtown. If you recall that they were looking at that for for a um group home, >> right? >> So, we purchased it. Um we hope that we

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have interest in it this time. You know, I had some calls. I directed them to our QPA uh if they had any questions on it. So, you know, hopefully they will sell. You can't always sell things when you want to. Um these are unavoidable operational expenses that from a

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municipality. >> You know, we have staff that that under contractal agreements, they get increases. We did we were able to benefit for from the the health plan being moved out of that but that's still a significant expense. Um we have

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prioritized infrastructure in this city. A lot of that comes out of my department. There were years where nothing was done to repair our infrastructure. It's aging. It's it's this building costs us more money than than a typical municipal building does because it's an old building. Same with

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our sewer and water lines. Uh we are constantly repairing them, replacing them. Um so that is a huge uh issue with costs. Flood mitigation pumping stations, we're adding those to the heights. Um there's a resiliency plan that we're waiting to get funding from

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the IBank on that would eliminate some of the nuisance flooding along Edgewater and Derby and hopefully Dorset Avenue so the bridge doesn't have to close because of flooding. Not going to talk about the bridge closing for other reasons because we don't control that. But flooding, we're trying to do something there that will eliminate that new bulkhead

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requirements in those areas. Um, finding all these gaps in the bulkhead where you have old storm drains. Um, that's a 7.5 million dollar project that we hope to be working through over the next couple years. The lead uh water service line replacement, that's something that's

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mandated by the state to do that. Um, we we hope to get funding. We hope to get grants for that. We hope to get some loans for that from the I bank. Some of that is is fully forgivable, not all of it. Um we are that's why we are raising the sewer and water rates. We need to

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bank that money because we're going to have to do this. The state is mandating it. It's not our call. And and by the way, our lead service line numbers, lead service, excuse me, speaking too fast. Um our lead in our water is very very low. The threshold for it is 15 parts

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per billion. We're below two really. I think the last test was below one. So, we're not in a in an urgent to do this, but the state mandated every municipality to do it. Those are costs that we can't control. We're trying to do it as best we can. Um, you know, we're looking to protect

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long-term community value, structural resilience in our community, maintain our infrastructure. Uh, we're not paving a lot of roads right now because we're going to have to dig them all up for this leadline service thing. So, I know people are complaining about the bumpy roads. Um, we're we're trying. We're getting there. We're doing them as we

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can and as we do municipal projects, we just bid out and we'll be be doing the Winchester Avenue. We'll replace those water lines as we go through there so we don't have to worry about digging that up. Um, just I wanted to get into some of the details of why these things are costing more. >> Everything costs more. We understand

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that. Um, I'll say more about that a little bit later on in in our agenda, but you know, we've tried to get through this as best we can. We understand the use of of more of the surplus is an option. Um the best recommendations from the guy that does this for almost every

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municipality in in our region is that we shouldn't use that right now. Um you know that's the best practices and we are following those practices. Running budgets is not what I do for a living. That's what Leon does for a living. We trust his judgment on how to do this and that's the recommendation that I think

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we should be following. So I'll stop talking now. I I I just want to add because you mentioned health insurance increases even though going um self-funded reduced the amount of increase which our employees by the way contribute to. So as that cost goes up what they pay also goes up but we also

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had increases in statutory expenses that we have no control over like pension like unemployment like Medicare um our other insurance workers comp and general liability also increased. So these are um expenses and line items we

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have very little control over. Um as I said Medicare, pension, social security, unemployment. We're told what that number has to be. We don't make it up. And again, as um Lance said, Leon is the expert. He is the financial genius. I'm

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probably embarrassing him, but he he does he does about every city in the in in the county, if not I don't know where else >> outside of the county. He advises us on how much fund balance to use. And I feel we would be foolish not to not to follow

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his advice. I mean, we we sat there around the table. We questioned him. We debated it. We argued it. We all, you know, said, "What can we do? Can we do this? Can we do that?" We put a little bit more in there that he thought we could handle. He will tell us what it's going to look like in 2027 if we do X,

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Y, and Z or if we don't do X, Y, and Z. >> So, um, we have to listen to him. That's why you hire experts. >> Go ahead. Yeah, you do it. >> Yeah. So, so that trust is earned. We've been in office together as a team for 10 years. And when we got in office, we've

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been there, there's levers that have been pulled when the interest rates were high and our coffers were were growing. we knew when what levers to pull then and but th and this is a different story. This is a moment in time and in this moment in time as the other commissioners said um the strategic use

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of the reserve is meant to um is meant to to is to avoid uh a v any vulnerabilities in our revenue. It's to make sure our cash flow is stable when things when when we have payments that we have to make for bond matches, things of that nature, that the money is there.

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But it's also on a bigger picture. It's a credit rating protection. Our credit rating has improved over the years because we've kept our our reserve in proportion to a growing budget. Budgets like any like everybody in our homes, our budgets are growing not not always

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through our own um our own actions. In this case, the top five noteworthy appropriations increase. And you've heard this before, public safety. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about where that that that portion of the dollar goes, but public safety is contractual obligations. Staffing levels

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have to be kept and it represents probably the single largest driver. Um health insurance was mentioned 37% um would have been devastating. On top of this, uh 37% rate hike. The health costs are are rising not just in Ventner

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but all over. We found a more uh stable uh plan that reflects uh the increases and and hopefully makes us uh a more stable uh healthcare insurance like like uh Commissioner Mento mentioned the general liabilities and workman comp. These are unavoidable broad market

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insurance costs, statutory expenditures. Um these are all uh pensions and the contributions they go up with the salaries that are going up at the same time. um operations and fuel. Those are the big those are the big hit uh the big

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hit items and the dollars are um are substantial 1.6 million I think is the total from last year to this year. 1.6 million in increases that are not that are mostly statutory or mostly uh things that are

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>> that that are part of these increases that are contractual. So there's no mystery here. the data um that it kind of tells its own at this point in time. Um it it's we we try to balance those those expenditures with as much

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discipline as we can and try to protect our taxpayers while keeping the city on a on a foundational footing. Um but you know there's a lot of misconceptions. The the the the water rate increase that was mentioned by the public and here um the alternative isn't realistic. The

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alternative is that then we're faced with one time large borrowing or a sharp increase in the future or using general tax dollars to subsidize the utility. This is good planning for the future because this is a 10-year requirement that costs 60

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>> our estimates are 65 to 70 million >> $5 million to make sure that your water is safe to drink. Delaying it is going to mean uh is is is just not an option. And I'm I I'll just hit on a couple other things that are I think also

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misconceptions. The ratables. People expect that uh uh there's a there's a perception out there that because there's so much building that ratables are going to leave us with all this money to spend and and and choices. That's not true. That we have a 2% appropriations cap. That means that even

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when the city ratables go up, we can't spend more than 2% year-over-year. Is that correct, Leon? >> Can't levy. >> Can't levy >> levy tax. >> Can't levy the tax. Correct. So the And then there's an appropriation tax. So those two things work in tandem in a

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point where um we're in some ways it's it's it's an analogy is that just because your your house is worth more doesn't mean that you have that much more cash in your hand to spend. That's an analogy that I think makes that appropriate. Um so we're we we have to

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gra we we can only use that um gradually. So, so as Lance and Maria both said, we we uh this is not something that we we uh take any enjoyment out of, but we do take a lot of trust into our finance team and the

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fact that we've all taken these numbers home and try to understand them as best we can. Um this is the the the budget um not the budget we want, but it's the budget that we have. Um at this point, >> um we have an amendment. >> Well, I wanted to mention one other

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thing. One of the things we have to report to the state with our budget is the impact this will have >> on uh >> on the homeowner property the property owner. >> And so you know we have to give them a whole chart from 100,000 to a million5

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of the impact the six cents has. And just as an example if your home is assessed at 400,000 the local tax impact the municipal is about $242 a year. If your home is assessed at a million dollars, then you're going to

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pay $65 more a year. Am I correct? >> Yes. Yes. Y >> So, one of the things we have to give to the state to be accountable for is the impact the the tax rate will have on the

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homeowner at various at every $100,000 level. So, like I said, if the home is assessed at 400,000, you're paying $242 more a year for city tax. If your home is assessed at a million, you're paying $65 more a year. If your home's assessed

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at a half a million, you're paying $33 more a year at the 6 cents increase. >> Yeah. Can we just stress too, that's your tax assessment. That's not your market value. Your home may very well be worth a million dollars, but it may only be assessed at 500,000 because we're

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that's about where the ratio is right now. Right. >> So, this is real numbers based on what your real assessment is. That's the impact. >> Yeah. This is their this is their number that they're taxed on. >> Yes. Even if your home is worth more, you're taxed at what you're assessed at,

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which you would see on the card you get. Okay. >> So, we have an amendment for that net zero. >> Any other comments? >> Any uh any other comments for the public from the Zoom platform >> on the municipal budget 2026? >> Anybody on Zoom wish to question or

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comment on the municipal budget? Please make yourself known in Zoom by raising your hand or within the chat feature and you will be recognized. No. Okay. May >> I have a motion to add at the bench resolution 168 to amend the budget. This

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amends two line items. It's a net zero change. There is no change to the total budget. I have a motion. >> I'll make that motion. Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langra. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creel. >> Yes. I have a motion

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to adopt the 2026-158 resolution. City of Ventner, County of Atlantic, State of New Jersey, adopting the 2026 municipal budget. >> I'll make that motion as well. >> Second. >> A roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langra. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes.

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>> Mayor Creable. >> Yes. Okay. Does that satisfy your course with the course correction? Um, next we have uh no department head reports but we do have capital

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discussion. Speaking of uh dollars, we have a capital discussion regarding um a expenditure for fire department. >> Fire department. >> Tom, do you want to start or >> Well, Chief K's here to talk to you

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about his need for a new fire truck. uh substantial cost and timing becomes critical. It takes a long time to turn these around. Uh the process I'll let let the chief speak, but just so that you keep in mind the timeline. If you

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agree with his request or decide to grant his request for this, we would then need to do a bond ordinance introduced at the next meeting, public hearing and adoption at the following meeting, and then 20 days after that before you can issue a purchase order. We're already probably into July before

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we could actually issue a purchase. >> Okay. >> Thank you for Thanks for coming, Chief. I appreciate your coming in person. We talk about this stuff every Thursday, but I thank you for bringing it to the table. >> Not a problem. Uh the fire department is looking to replace a 32year-old fire engine. Actually about to be 33 years

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old. The engine was there before I came on the job. >> That's amazing. It is a Yes, it's I feel like it feels because it's going into the shop more than it is on the line. Um, it is well past its service life. It did 24 years on the line as a line

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apparatus running every day. Then it did 5 years as the reserve piece that went out of town on mutual aid and now as our deep reserve. We need to replace it to keep our fleet healthy. We don't need something that's broke all the time, is nonfunctioning, and just takes up garage

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space. Um, the problem with fire apparatus, as I was discussing with uh, director Santoro and the the mayor earlier today, is the turnaround time is almost two years to get it. We're purchasing it now under a co-op,

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the Houston Galveastston co-op at X price. The longer we wait, the changes by the federal government on the engine raised the price of that vehicle by $400,000 in the last four years. We have no control over it. We we shopped it. We

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got the exact vehicle we would like. It comes in at $1.1 million. It is a vehicle that will serve the city for 25 to 30 years. If we do not replace our vehicles as they age, we wind up with vehicles that

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don't work. We are inspected by the insurance uh service organization every seven years. They grade us on our ability to protect the city. That's what gives you your fire insurance rates. Since I became chief, we've upgraded the fleet substantially. Our rate went from

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three to two. We're one of 34 municipalities in the state of New Jersey at a level two. Uh and took a lot to get there. I'd like to stay there. If we do not have a replacement for this vehicle, I'm of the mind that we should scrap it at the end of the year and we'll run short because

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I'd rather not pay for services for a vehicle that's in the shop more than it is on the line. financially it doesn't make sense to throw good money after bad. So I'm asking that we do the bond ordinance to get the vehicle again. We'll probably have it by 2028

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and hopefully this thing holds out till then >> and by using the bond sorry >> no just a just a followup um department of public works mechanics uh based report that there's no uh parts availability compounding the issues. They've also um kind of waved the red

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flag from what I understand in terms of uh what they can touch and what they can't touch and their and your service contract said the same. So, >> our emergency vehicle service contractor totally goes along with what public works has said. You put a wrench on one thing, something breaks on the other side. >> We just had to have the entire steering

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frame replaced >> again. 30 30 plus years of service in saltwater underwater multiple times. It's it's paid its dues. It's ready to uh to put out the pasture. >> Remind me not to have those guys in the hospital room when I'm, you know,

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>> right? >> Give up the red flag. No, I get it. I get I'm I'm making light of a situation. Um understood, you know, >> and it it is the crazy the increases that have caused Yeah. since the last engine we we were replaced, which replaced the 1987 vehicle.

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>> So, we're getting to where we should be in a 10-year rotational. Our vehicle's trickling down. That's all I really have. You kind of covered, you know, the maintenance guys have told me that they No, no, no. That's you're you're fine. Um I get it.

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You know, we need to do that. But what I was going to say is the bonding allows us to spread this out over many years. >> So it's not a huge impact to our budgets coming forward. So >> can most likely spread it over the life of the >> of the vehicle >> equipment. Yeah. Right. >> Correct.

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>> Yes. Yeah. So if it's got a 25 year life, you'll pay for it over 25 years. >> Our maintenance program, what we have now, keeps our vehicles healthy from 25 years. This is the oldest vehicle in the city's fleet by probably 20 years, but we take good care of it when we have

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it, but it's very difficult to fix something that won't stay fixed. >> Right. >> So, I've worked with you for about 10 years now professionally. I didn't know you before. And what I learned was to trust your judgment and your level of expertise and that you're also a tough

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negotiator where I've seen you >> uh >> I try >> whittle down some of these prices that you're given or um take advantage of certain incentives. >> Yeah. When I sit at the meetings, I'm not buying a showpiece. I'm buying a work truck.

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>> And a work truck it is. It's it's a it's a devel you know this is a a fully built out community. your your calls have gone up I think 400 calls from this time last year. >> Yep. >> So it's not as though this is but at the same point in time we've had 400 more calls and it's not as though this is a a

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luxury. This is a this is a back this is a backup vehicle. >> Engine 14 was put in service multiple times this year during the snow and the ice storms because we need to put more vehicles on the street and luckily it worked. But then >> then it didn't and it just came back

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from the shop. A lot of money to throw something that sits in a garage and breaks without moving. >> Right. So >> So we we need action tonight to move this forward. >> Yeah. Just uh you know nod of the heads that you're in support of this and I'll

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call on council tomorrow to get the ordinance prepared for the next meeting. >> Okay. I also support it. support it. >> Thank you. >> We wanted to talk about public works, too. >> Yeah. Rick, you want to go through some

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of the stuff? We also have some public works equipment that we're looking at putting in in similar bond issue. Looked at uh dump truck with plow, $350,000, street sweeper, 400k. We tried to get that electric one, but the grant was not

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enough money to to offset the cost to go to electric. Um the the salespeople were a little, you know, um how would you say that? Uh boosting their, you know, blowing their horn a little bit longer than it than than it needed to be. Yes. >> Um would have been nice to have that vehicle if the grant tied to it would

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have offset the cost to go to electric. >> Um because it was a great vehicle, but we're just not spending an extra $400,000 to get an electric vehicle. Um facility improvements, the roof, some plumbing, HVAC, concrete gutters. Is that can that fit

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in that can fit into the bonding because that's we need a lot. We need about 100k in work around the city for that. Another John Deere tractor for for working on the beach utility truck box type for facilities maintenance and um laser grinding which would allow us to

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do some of our own line work. Correct. >> Instead of bringing in Delta line or somebody like that. >> Yeah. Okay. especially if we we relocate and move lines. The um we presently we only have the capability to spray over them. The lines that are down of rubberized epoxy paint needs to be

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crowned down. And just as a note regarding our fleet, we have 35% of our fleet is more than 20 years old. We have inherited the retired police department vehicles, retrofitted them, stripped those of emergency uh lights and we do

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operate uh forced to operate uh in snow and rain and sometimes flooding conditions. Um our our largest big ticket items, our dump truck. We have our last diesel vehicle that we want to convert to gas. it uh is extremely uh

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inefficient and uh is very it pollutes greatly and uh also the the replacement parts and the parts that keep it up to speed, the hydraulics um exceed 18 to $25,000 a year or so. >> Okay. >> And um and we did look at the the street

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sweeper that we're proposing. We demoed an electric vehicle. This is the gas version of that. It has vacuums. Uh it could uh pick up sand, water. It's quiet. Um, it has articulating, um, boom

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brushes that go out, uh, 90 degrees that can get to these, uh, right angles and these, um, areas that, uh, the new, uh, street improvements and handicap lane, um, access make it hard to sweep there because we can't get around that. >> You saw me driving the electric one.

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>> Yeah. So, we they have the same vehicle. Gas powered, diesel or gas? >> Uh, it's gasoline. >> Gasoline power. So >> imagine those bumpouts are difficult. Yeah, >> they are. They become hand cleaning locations. Wow. >> So we have to get out and actually clean those. So if we can run the sweeper

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through there, this thing has an arm that that does that. Helps us keep the storm drains a little cleaner. Um so we're looking at approximately a million two if you add up all these items. So um that's that's where this comes through. So, I think that's what we're asking for is is to add that to that same bond

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ordinance >> and the sweeper. What about the dump truck? >> Um, I was looking at >> one of the things that's not on this list that that came to our attention recently is the fuel station and the ridiculous cost for that. So, I have reached out to Margate to see about

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possibly doing some kind of shared service agreement, but I haven't gotten anywhere with that yet. Let's hold off on these until we can figure out what we're going to do with that fuel station. The fuel station at public works that both the police and fire use in our public works vehicle has far

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exceeded its life. Um we've been told we have to replace that by the inspectors. >> Um and the number was several million dollars to do that. So it was Yeah, it it's it's a concrete enclosed and it just just to remove it was >> 40 years old.

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>> Yeah. >> It's 40 years old. not require this new DP uh vapor caps and locks and and D rules and the companies that install that and retrofit those won't touch the tank because it's it's beyond its um

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certification. They will not certify the fuel tank. And if it does it does provide fuel, it's it's 8,000galon tank. Now it's 4,000 diesel, 4,000 gas. We have less diesel uh now than gas. It would probably be 6,000 gallons. and uh

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two, but it's still um a need that we have because we we maintain and fuel all the vehicles in the fleet and all the small equipment and tools. So, it's it's a critical uh critical piece of equipment. >> Let's reevaluate that fuel station and then circle back with all this.

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>> Yeah, we we can do a separate ordinance. You know, you're not limited to doing just one. So, we'll prioritize the fire truck, get that rolling because that's time of time's of the essence on that. Yeah. >> Uh, I wanted I'll work with Rick and Amy to fine-tune some of this because we may

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already have uh I know that we have money previously budgeted for facility improvements. I'm not sure how much is left there that could could potentially cover some of the HVAC and roofs and plumbing work that needs to be done as well as the concrete gutters. And then the small the small equipment pieces are

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not a big deal to deal with. So, we'll we'll focus on the dump truck, the sweeper, and and fine-tuning the cost on that fuel station. Uh, and look to have something for you to consider at the next meeting, perhaps again in a discussion like this with an eye towards

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then authorizing what we're going to do. >> Good. Thanks, Tom. >> Thanks, Rick. >> Okay. Any signs of slowing? No, it doesn't. >> Um, then we will have minutes from May 7th,

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2026 special meeting. We were all here for that. So, it can be approved by all of us. Um, we have uh no ordinance introductions. Uh, we'll have a public hearing

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and adoption of two ordinances. One is the um the the water usage uh code of bender as it relates to water usage that's uh 009 and the other is uh uh

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010 um is the same as it relates to sewers touched on that a little bit >> um with our rates and how and why um then we have a number of resolutions by consent

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um 2026 uh 155 Five. This is uh just a change in language with the same intent for a grant uh regarding the governor's council on substance abuse. Um that's all there really is to that. Um and the

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next is 156. Lance, would you have any you want to make any comment on Portland Avenue? >> Yes, this is Portland Avenue drainage improvements. Um Marendino, Charles Marendino was the low bidder. Good bids ranged from 204,000 which is what Marendino bid on it up to a little over

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300,000 but the there were three of them clumped right around that two or four. To me that tells me we had good biders on it and good specs. >> So we'll get this this awarded and get this work done. It's it's needed. >> We all saw that over yesterday when everything was flooding.

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>> So we're trying to get this stuff uh in in you know off the streets and into the bay. This is a Portland Avenue drainage improvements not to exceed $24,000. >> Correct. >> Um there's a grouping of ordinances from 157,

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158, 159, 160, 161, and 162. These are all tax abatements, standard issue tax abatements throughout the city showing that we have um improvements being made on our homes. Any questions on that?

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>> No. new construction part of that project program. >> Um then we have ordinances 163, 164, 165 and 166. These are all liquor licenses. These are those liquor licenses among our 15 or so with through

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in the city that are planetary and retail. These are liquor license that were prepared for renewal. Um, if you have one of these liquor licenses, please make sure all your paperwork is in by the next meeting. Um, so that we can keep uh keep your license licenses active. Correct.

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>> Yes, please. >> Yes, please. Um, any com comments or questions on those? >> No. No. >> Um, >> uh, one question. So, just in general, have we had any complaints with these from the police department? Any issues with the licenses? >> Um,

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>> significant. >> None significant. >> No. >> Good. That's all. That's, you know, >> no, we only have the three, you know, consumptions and those are where the the and then No, nothing that hit my radar. >> Okay, that's all I'm asking. It's makes me comfortable.

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>> Uh the last one is probably why we have so many pe folks here in our uh on the on the groom side of the court. Nice. >> Um this is um so this is a workshop

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session. This is where uh we have a a discussion point where the governing body has a chance to discuss within the sunshine law and among ourselves about the matter before us. And then conveniently there is a public portion

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uh just a few items down where folks can talk about anything that's on the agenda and specifically we'll give everybody who wants to step up to the mic time to talk about their comments about this ordinance. There's going to be some discussion here among the three of us um

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uh regarding adjusting recreation fees in the city of Ventner. So there was one recreation fee that was left open. Uh all the other recreation fees have been approved. Um this is regarding um the

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seasonal pickle ball fee. So I I'll I'll give you my two cents. I don't believe we have a consensus yet and I'll leave it to the other commissioners to find their their level. Um I'll just give you my my my judgment on this. Uh recreation

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falls under my department. However, u matters like this require votes. Um we have a recreational um board. We have a wreck board. The rec board um does all the hiring, the firing, and the management of our

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recreation department. Um, I rely on them. I I don't come to every meeting, but I come to as many as as I can. Um, we rely on their recommendations. Their initial recommendation was $200. I'll let that sink in. Then this is a

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this is a this is the day-to-day operating governing body for that department. They they had further conversations and settled on $150. That is the recommendation that I concur with and I'm alone in that. I

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feel like many other municipalities in the country, Vendor uses a combination of taxpayer support and user fees to operate specialized recreational amenities. It's not only common to pickle ball, it's also common to golf

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and marinas and ice rinks and public pools, um recreational leagues and fields. Uh in Ventner, our fishing pier seasonal fe uh currently fees are currently $200

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and for adults uh and it's for seniors and the military it's $150. My feeling is that we balance this affordability, public access, and responsibility of maintaining this highquality facility. The current $100 pickle ball membership

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fee generates approximately $56,000 with uh to a rug uh another roughly $38,000 collected through hourly court rates for a total revenue of about $94,000. the city's annual costs associated with

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the courts, including staffing, equipment, additional windscreens, insurance, payroll taxes, administrative oversight, Department of Public Works, maintenance, cleaning, trash collection, repairs, and approximately $70,000 in annual debt service for the newly

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renovated $1 million court improvements is estimated at roughly $122,000 annually. That means that at the current $100 membership fee, the program operates at an at an estimated deficit of about $28,000 per per year with the

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remaining cost absorbed by the general taxpayer. And when I say general taxpayer, there are 559 active members last year. There may be more. We hope there are. There are roughly 10,000

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taxpaying residents in the city. So for 6% of the residents that play pickle ball and 94 roughly percent do not, it's my opinion that under the proposed under the proposed 150 membership fee,

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the total revenue would increase approximately 30 to $28,000 depending on membership and it would bring it closer to a break even point. This is not a profit center. None of these none of these recreation fees are a profit center. That's a very big

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misconception. This is a small part of the of of the the city budget. The broader question in my opinion is whether costs of a specialized recreational amenity used by approximately less than 600 individuals should be subsidized by all taxpayers in

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the 6,400 residential taxpaying properties in Ventner, including residents who will never use the facility or whether users should contribute to the majority share towards the actual operating and long-term capital approaching that that are that are appro that that approaches this. Uh,

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I will say that this is not an uncommon question in other cities. Ocean City spent a million dollars in 2024 and their mayor asked for a $225 annual fee. He was um uh outvoted to a $100 fee. And

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respectfully, I I this is a this is in my opinion, government should have more conflict and more more uh more resolution in this manner. I I I will vote with my conscience and say that $150 is a fair fee for an amenity like

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this. I will leave it to my respected associates here to discuss whether they want to do something less or more or at the same as a and and vote on it at the at during the commission meeting. We would pull this out of the consent and vote on it separately. Um and that's all

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I have to say about that. >> I I'll jump in. So, I appreciate that detail. Um, some of it information I didn't have before. Um, really detailed breakdown, Tim. I appreciate that. >> Yeah, you're welcome.

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>> Um, I get that it it's not, you know, we don't look to break even on these things, but this would get us to that point. Um, and up, you know, I don't support increasing at this time because of what we just did with the budget. I I get exactly what you're saying. And if

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we just didn't increase our our tax rate by 6 cents, I would probably be right with you. And and it's a it's one of those catch 22s. I guess I'm I'm trying to use that that phrase because we do put a lot of money in. We just put a million dollars

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into this site. It's not all finished. We're going to finish the rest of it in the fall. But I'm I'm hardressed to to put that the 6% that it's it's only 6% of our population that is using this >> and and they're not all they're not all residents. I I I I

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>> So I think for me that that the tax increase is not necessarily >> it's not apples to apples but it's something else that we're tacking on and it and it's that's what it feels like and that's why I I I was uncomfortable with it. >> Yeah. >> But your information was was in

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information was informative. the one tandre. Um, >> and I'm not and I and I think that in the future I think all wreck department fees should have a two-tier resident non-resident uh aspect. That's something that's done in other cities. I think it's something that that we can do as well.

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>> I think it might be property owner nonpropy owner >> property owner nonpropy. >> I think that might be a better way to look at it. And I think you have to you have to you have to prove that because there is there is an argument to be made that that that that you are increasing taxes on folks but you and they are already paying somewhat of the freight

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for these >> y >> specialized but these are to me the tipping point for me is the percentage you have such a specialized user group here and you have such a nonuser group on the other side paying paying for what

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is um something that um it's an amenity It's not a need. >> Agreed. >> I'll I'll leave it to you if you two want to discuss thing. I'm still >> comments. So again, I appreciate everything you said and and I think it's a good practice for government to um be

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able to uh for for things like this to be able to pay for itself from fees. Um I know the ideal is to cover costs. Um, I understand compared to tennis, pickle ball is a bargain, you know, compared to what they pay for tennis. Um, Diana ran

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some numbers for me and uh, based on $150 fee, it costs anywhere from 272 a day to play to depending on how much you play to three something a day. So, none of that sounds horrific, but to me, I will

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tell you a 50% increase I bothers me. >> Yeah. speaking into the microphone. >> Did you hear nothing I said or you can't hear just the latest? >> Okay. So, I was saying I could appreciate what Tim has said and it it's a good way to operate to cover your

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costs for a a um something like this to be covered by fees. Um and I also said compared to tennis, I understand that pickle ball is if you compare it to tennis is a bargain as far as what's paid. And I had Diana run some

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numbers for me. And basically this equates to $150 fee equates to 270 a day to three something a day, you know, depending on whether the weather's nice or not. But I do have um personally I do have a problem with a 50% increase.

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That's what bothers me about this that it's a 50% increase. A1 to $150 is a 50% increase. and um I would be amendable to something less something in the neighborhood of $ 110

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or $120 from 100 and um for us to look at this every year so that there's incremental small increases perhaps every year and not one big increase in one year. Um so that's that's what I would be in favor of. Um so I know we're

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not all on the same page on this, >> right? We just need to uh address a add add it to the resolution. If the two of you have a number that you want to insert, it would become part of the resolution at the end uh during the during the meeting. So I I I appreciate

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what you said and thank you. I think there's also >> thing sadly I didn't get to the beach one time last year, but I'm paying for that. There's no way beach tags pay for beach maintenance, beach monitoring, lifeguards. I know you look at that a

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little differently to this, but >> I look at it as the same. We are not covering our beach fees with beach tags. There's no way in hell we could ever do that without charging a fortune. >> I think there are similarities, but I think the the beach and the and the and

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the activities that go on in the beach are part of the city's identity. It's part of our economy. It's part of our it's it's a wider use and it's a it's part of we're we're really are a a resort. This is a specific lean, a specific channel. I don't think it's I

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don't I think that maybe we are higher than or we are at the high end of the scale today, but we are not necessarily going to be at the high end of the scale a year from now or two years from now when all the other high use. This is a high use facility. It's going to require

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maintenance and all the other facilities in Ocean City and and Sea Aisle, they're they're all going to require the same $1 million repairs that we are absorbing this year. And and I like I said, I I respect your opinions. If you if you

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choose to do I heard 1101 120 if you decide to make that number, you have the ability to vote two against one. And and that's and that's part of the process. So the um we we would just need to know what that that amount is.

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>> We did get we got some comparables, right? Uh Brigadine's 120, Margates 100, Ocean City's 100, Sea Isle is nonpropy and property owner 150 and 100. And by the way, we've always looked at that, but we had the legal opinion that we couldn't do that in prior years. So now

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I'm hearing we can do something like that. So it's not like we never >> thought to do that. It's just that our attorney at the time always said, "You can't have a two-tier rate." >> Yeah. >> Is that something we can Can we do something like that for non for property owners and non-propy owners? Can you

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split fees for that? >> That that that's a no. That look was a no. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and my my reason for pumping the brakes on that for this session is that I wouldn't like I I think you have to do

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it across the board. >> I wouldn't do it now. Yeah, I agree with I wouldn't do it tonight. >> Looking at the rec department saying she's got >> uh dozens and dozens of camps and classes and that that have that are affected by residents and non-residents

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because we grow from 10,000 to 30,000 people. So that is a factor and I think you'd have to do it uh across the board >> across the board. We're all you have to have some type of percentage that would apply towards that. >> That would be something we could look at and cat give cat time to >> Yeah. Just a question for my for my

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curiosity. Is is there a daily fee you can pay? Like if somebody wanted to come from Kate May and just play for a day. There is a daily fee. >> Okay. >> So the JCC is 149. Pickle juice wow is 250 for the summer season

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>> and Pro Shop that is 29. Pro Shop's 299. Pickle juice for the summer season's 250 and JCC is 149. >> What are you saying? We're picking on you a little bit. Sorry. >> You always pick on me.

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>> So, yeah, there's there's there's there's precedent for for we're on the top end of that scale. I I acknowledge that. Um but I again I think I said I said I said what I I said what I said. >> I think I you know hearing both of those both of your comments

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I could be I could lean towards a graduated increase. Like I said 50% is a lot in one year. I I think the 120 is something I could go with at this point. And then we reevaluate next year and see where we are. See if we can do different charges for different folks and and and

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that aspect. Folks that are already paying for, you know, the the bonding, excuse me, that we just did to do the improvements to the site. >> We can look at senior rates. I know we can do something like that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Can I make a comment if you don't mind, please?

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I I I think I think there's a danger in focusing too much on percentages and uh numbers without analyzing the actual impact of what that means. So going back to the budget for example when you talk

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about a 6 cent tax increase 6 cents here might be 1 cent somewhere else. So it's not fair to compare tax rates they become meaningless. They're not an applesto apples comparison. So, the analysis that Maria provided showing the actual impact to people, I think, is is

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the key. Is $20 a month too much to ask people to pay for additional taxes to cover the services that they're used to having? And that's what that six cents translates to. In this case, where you're talking about going from $100, a

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nominal fee, to 150. Yes, it's a 50% increase, but it's $50. And for a threemonth season, that's $16 a month or about $4 a day that we're asking people to pay to help defay the cost of running

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that top-notch facility. So, I personally don't think that there's too many people in this room or in this city that can't afford another $4 a day to enjoy a hobby that they've taken up and that they've committed to. And you know,

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I commend everybody and hope they do enjoy the new facility, but really $4 a day, folks. Come on. >> All right, >> Tom, you're absolutely right. I just can't do it. That's just how I feel. But

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you're absolutely right. >> All right. So, do you want to amend the resolution to be 120 from 150 to 120? Is that what you're saying? >> I I could go with that. Yeah. But that'll come out of the consent agenda and we'll have a public discussion on it in the next right >> when we get to the when we get to the

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committee meeting when we get to the actual meeting it'll come out of the consent agenda and we will have a separate vote on resolution 167. We're amending that resolution to adjust recreational fees to be voted on in the

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regular meeting at $120. It's the All right. So, next we have we'll have approval of bills and payroll. We'll have uh safety.

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Um wait a minute. Did I lose my place here? Put something up here. >> Sorry. Thank you. >> Pardon me for just a second. Um, >> thank you.

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>> It's right there on the top. >> Yeah. So, um, so that is the we're removing that. Um, we'll have approval of bills and payroll. We'll have announcements and safety reports, commissioner comments, and public comments. And then this then we'll we'll

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switch to the um where's the rest of the where's we do public comment now on on items on the agenda. Yeah. >> Wrong number. >> Letter Q. >> Yeah. You like mine? There you go. >> Yeah. Mine mine goes down. I'm down to CC here. Oh, >> I took it off. I'm sorry.

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>> Right. That it's in the same bar. So, yeah. So, we'll have 167 as I mentioned. Uh so, at this point, um uh we'll have public portion. Uh we can have folks come to the to the microphone, state your name and

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address. you can discuss anything uh regarding the workshop items that we've discussed so far. Um may I have a motion to open public portion? So moved. Have >> a second. >> Second. >> Roll call. Lisa. >> Langria. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento.

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>> Yes. >> Mayor Creable. >> Yes. Thank you. >> State your name. >> Tim Cryer. Ventner City. Uh I I read somewhere that this rec this came from the recreation commission. >> That's right. >> Okay. They said they re did they have those figures?

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>> Yes. >> So when you when they made the recommendation, >> our president is here and she does. She's nodding yes. And I believe they did. We had some discussions on it, but they did have those numbers. They and like I said, they recommended $200 as a yearly fee based on their day-to-day and

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their experience and recommended and then felt as though that was doubling it would be too much and came to 150 as their recommendation. >> Okay. And then again, it's just my opinion since you're pulling it out of the consent agenda and you have so many people here. I just wish you would have

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heard from them before you made a final decision on what the dollar amount was going to be that to hear from the people that were actually going to have >> Hasn't been voted on. Hasn't been voted on, but I appreciate >> No, but you decided that you were going to put a $120 figure on it. >> And I just wish before you made that

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determination, you would have listened to the public. Just my opinion. you you don't have to agree with it. >> Thank you for moving on. >> Okay. So, I'm just going to take a few minutes because I wrote all this stuff down even though now you've discussed all this other information. I'd like to

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read what I wrote. >> Okay. >> Okay. Mayor, commissioner, city officials. Um, thanks. Oh, Pat Harrian, Ventner Heights. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of the Ventner pickle ball community. As my

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background is, I brought pickle ball, the specialized sport, to Ventner in 2016. The people on the board did not know what pickle ball was. I brought a paddle. I brought a ball. I showed them. I gave them the de the the dimensions of

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what of what a court looks like. And we began, right? And we started with 25 members was free at that time and everybody came out to play. And I kept saying to Jerry Thomas, if you put another court in, more people will come. And sure enough, more people came. And

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then we started our organization, which I'm president of, and I'm also an ambassador for the United States pickle ball community. Uh so when we started our ventner pickle ball advisory committee, we were at that time advising

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give and take back and forth. I would go to meetings. I'd hear what they'd have to say. I'd bring it back to the population. I'd get information and I'd go back and we'd land on some solutions to whatever our, you know, challenges were. But this didn't get out there at

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all. There was no uh discussion about it. there was no invite to come and and discuss it. I get it. It's a city budget. It's a recreational line, but I felt like we were um held out of any of that discussion. As Tim said, we weren't

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asked for input at all. So, one of the things that I I wanted to say was that, you know, we have different than maybe some of the other sports, we have always been partners with the city. We have given back to the

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city, donated to the city from the pickle ball community. We have hundreds of volunteer hours where we put in free instructions to the city employees and the youth summer camps program. Um, we have six memorialized benches that we

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paid for, six awnings for shade, the six-foot fence that goes down the middle of the uh main court, paddle racks for all the courts. um shadow box outside of the office for announcements, a canopy for the veterary

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court staff so they're not in the sun. Um we've donated uh to the police and the fire benevolent funds. We've also donated two years in a row now $1,500 a year to the special events program. So I feel like we we did our part in doing

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that and we want to continue to do that. That's why we want to be partners. Um the the the fee going to $150 for an eight-week program does seem unfair. There are weekends with tournaments for funky pickle and other things that we

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may be locked out of that. Yeah, we could pay for it because that's a for-profit organization, but it's not something that we do on a daily basis and we can only play five days a week. That's all we can reserve. Can't play seven days a week. So, it's an 8week

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program at $150, which was the proposed rate. A small fee would be understandable. A small increase. Um, given the the recognizing of the hard work and the dedication, the grant monies that put into revitalizing that

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whole complex, it's beautiful. We've been playing there. It's beautiful and we love it. And it's one of the best. People tell me wherever I go, if I go to Ocean City, if I go to Sea, they say to me, "Oh, your courts are beautiful. They're really Yes, they were. Now they're even nicer because they've been

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redone. So, we're asking to reconsider that 150. And I'm proposing that we keep residents at $75, non-residents at 125. I think that's a a fair bargain. I get what you're saying, but we're not asking

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tennis to pay that much more. We're not asking basketball to pay anything. um we're not asking volleyball to increase every member that plays volleyball, you know, a higher fee. So, it kind of seems unfair given that we

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are the specialized sport and it is a hobby and we do love it. >> Thank you. >> You know, one thing I didn't ask, how long has the fee been $100? When did we when did it start? >> 75 and then it went to 100 and now 150 proposed.

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>> So, >> you are a great community. I I see that in uh you know there you know the sport communities that I'm in that there's much more organized you're than a lot of other communities you you uh in a lot of ways self um you know self-govern in a

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lot of ways but we and so I appreciate your comments and I agree. >> Yeah I mean that's what we try to do. We try to self-govern people you know they come and say hey Pat hey Bill who you know they ask us questions and you know if I have a question I I take it to the board. I mean, Diane knows I've been

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there and you know, I've been there. So, uh, you know, I want to be involved and we want to continue to give back. We just want with, you know, with the taxes that we already pay and the increases coming down, just give us a fair a fair shot at a a fair price. >> Thank you,

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>> so I I don't know if you could hear us earlier. We did ask our attorney to look at if we can do a property owner versus a non-propy owner fee, right? We can't do it this year, but she will take a look at the law and see if it's something that's allowed. We've always been told in the past legally you cannot do that.

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>> Why can we not do it this year? >> It there's not enough time to do it. >> We we has to determine whether we're allowed to do it. >> It would have to be done across all wreck >> wreck programs. Can't just so single out one program. You'd have to do it against all of them.

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>> Okay. Um >> and legally we don't know if we can do it. So she has to investigate that. >> Is that you have to do that? Are we talking about court reserve or are we talking about >> a a pro a tax a property tax owner

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versus a nonproperty tax owner rate? >> Okay. Yeah. Well then maybe we could do um seniors, you know, if you can't do that this year. Um I think court reserve can handle a discount for senior members and non senior members up to 60. I mean, I

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know that's what Brigotine is doing. >> Mhm. >> So, something that, you know, is a little bit more palatable in an increase. >> Did either of you want to change your comments based on so far? >> Do you want to leave seniors at 100? >> Yes, >> I'd be fine with that.

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>> All right. Thank you. >> Thanks. >> Oh, hi, Beth Torsiello, uh, Betner. Uh, building on what you know Pat said about um you can't you can't do it until next

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year. Um, but take into consideration that the residents here not going to wear this correctly. The residents here have to you have to get your phone out and you have to push that

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button at 7 o'clock. we have to compete to get a spot. So, you not only are charging or trying to charge $150, uh you are no guarantee of getting on the court. I think that's really totally unfair.

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Uh in within 15 seconds, the sessions fill and so here you've paid the $150 and you are not guaranteed a spot. So, I think you should take that cons into consideration. And if you have to wait

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until next year to do this, then why don't you just leave the fee at $100? And if there's some way to give veterina residents access to getting on the courts first, uh, that would be helpful as well because, you know, like I said,

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7 o'clock, does everybody know this? 7 o'clock, everybody stops what they're doing and has to hit the button and within 15 seconds it's filled. >> Okay? And that's I mean at $150 that's not fair to not be guaranteed. I pay for

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my beach badge. I don't go on to the beach and then they say, "Nope, sorry. You know, you didn't get in on time." And I do pay um for uh school taxes. I pay for, you know, different things that I don't use. And I actually don't go on the beach. I walk the boardwalks. I

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don't go on the beach. So, you know, I think it's fair, you know, for us to have some type of, you know, advantage to use our facilities. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I I' I've seen it. I've heard it that

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there's that the court reservation I've seen people stop eating dinner and >> get on their reservation. I've seen them get up from a table so they could get in sooner. I don't know if there's a I I I imagine things like um like Ticatron when you try to get a concert that's

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highly popular and then and those things I I imagine there may be a way to wire it so that there could be maybe a percentage. I I would I would hesitate to say that all that you could allow uh residents only a certain period of time and then it wouldn't be available to all the people that were played. But I could

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imagine that there might be a uh there might be a way to wire it so that there'll be an early reservation period for a percent for residents at at a percentage, you know, a percentage of slots. And after that's after that time is up or that amount is done. And I'm

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just guessing that that it could be an open um it could be an open, you know, open reservation. So that's something that again that's something that's going to have to be wired and it's going to have to be vetted. I mean, you know, Right.

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>> Progress one one one step at a time. Yep. Did you have something you want to say, sir? >> My name is Lance Conn. I live at 103 North Wyoming Avenue. I've been playing pickle ball in Ventner for eight years now. Um,

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since they open, since we've had courts, I've been playing there for eight years. There's been other public courts that opened up in this area. I see us losing some people to some of these other locations. Also, a lot of people, as they were saying, are frustrated at this 7:00

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thing where you you can get locked out in a second. Some of those people have just joined Pickle Juice and Pro Shop and not playing a Ventner. I look at it this way. Um, I have Margate, it's $100. I have Ocean City, it's $100.

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So I look at this when I come to Ventner I have to find a parking spot which takes time. I have now been cut down from seven days and I play seven days to five days. And I just think the $150

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when everybody else is $100. Everybody has the same cost that we have it. For me personally, Margate is this close to my house. They're closer and their courts are in great condition.

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What is my my incentive? My only incentive playing in veterary is because we have the best people in the world to play with. That's what we have going for ourselves. And I hate to see us, you know, you're talking about we raised $150, we're going to raise this much more money. But that being said, how

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about the people who are frustrated and say, I'm just going to play in Margate. So you will probably lose 50 people. So the money you're making up and overcharging, you're going to lose probably the back end. Thank you very much for the time. Thank you. >> Say

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>> yeah. >> Just to be clear right now that I hear a lot of people saying 150. Right now the the amendment is potentially is going to be adjusted to to 120. Right. So that's that's an amendment that's on the table

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right now. And I think there's some discussion about >> 150 is off the table. >> Is off the table. Right. So, it's 120 at this point to be voted on. >> All right. Sorry to interrupt you. >> Um, Barbara Lombardo, Newark Avenue, Ventner. Um, you're already giving a

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discount to the fishing pier, which I don't use, and I don't know how many people in Ventner actually use that, but why can't you now give a senior discount? >> That's what we the topic that just brought up. So, >> yeah, but you're you keep putting everything off to other years. And last

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year we even brought up the resident thing to the recreation department and you know to give residents a discount and that didn't go anywhere. But why not now a senior discount? You're already doing it. >> We had the legal opinion for years that

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we cannot do a a property owner versus non-property owner which you're referring to as a resident versus non-resident. Right. We are now going ask our new attorney to look at that. >> But you can do a senior discount now because you're already doing it. Yes, we do that on the pier. Do we do that on

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the pier? We do a veteran too, do we? >> We do it. We know we do a a senior uh >> and we have that on the table right now. >> Seniors 150 >> for this year. Yes. >> For seniors and 200 for adults. So >> So what I'm sorry, what was that? >> The Well, that's at the pier. We do do a discount for seniors and there's a

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discussion here now that we would do 100 for seniors and 120 for adults. >> Thank you. Nonenior. >> Non seniors. Non seniors. And then and then just to clarify, there is now a city sele that has done it for

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a year. So there is going to be some groundwork that we can discuss with their solicitor to find out what what if any push back they had. Um Diane, would you like to a round of applause for Diane? >> Diane Burkeback 3 North Cambridge Avenue

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Ventner. um as a member of the recreation board. Uh the recreation board are is made up of residents that have been appointed and volunteer their time to

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uh balance between uh looking at the best interest of the public, looking at the best interest of the city and uh looking at the use of the city facilities.

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With that in mind, our goal is to provide activities for all citizens, youth, middle a teenagers, seniors, adults. Um, but looking at the big picture, not just a tunnel vision on one

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particular interest. Um, Patty, I hate to tell you, but uh I taught pickle ball at the old high school in 200. told me that that night when I >> Yes. So, >> but I brought it in. >> Okay. I didn't have ventner students, I guess.

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Anyway, um the recreation board recom I'll speak to a couple other things that you keep coming up and asking the same question over and over again. Uh, as far as can

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we have an earlier time for veterary residents, the program that the pickle ball group uses, court reserve, does not have that capability. We looked into it and uh, by the way, the uh, court reserve costs

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over $1,000 a year, whereas the city does not have to pay uh, a program uh, computer program for basketball. They don't have to pay for a program for volleyball. They don't have to provide a

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computer program for little league baseball, softball, um pirates football. So, we're looking at uh you know, when you want to compare apples to apples, this is a specialty that requires more expenditure.

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We the city needs to provide employees on a regular basis because of the conflicts that arise at the pickle ball courts. And this year since the there are more

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courts and more availability and um when you're talking about finances, we're forgetting that it's free play from 12 to 4:00. Granted, every day people don't want to play from 4:00 to 12, but there's a lot

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of days that that time is not bad and you can go down and get a group and play for free. So, you're 150, 125, whatever. um to offset the expenditures that

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the taxpayers are subsidizing. I'm on the rec board. I like a lot of activity, but I don't play pickle ball, but my taxes are still going to the people that do. So, the fee that we

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recommended, and I'm speaking for the entire recreation board, um we looked at all the all angles of this. We looked at how much it costs to run baseball, the use of the fields, um how much it costs to have the volleyball on the beach and

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the volleyball in the school, and how much we have to pay. So all of those uh expenditures for all those activities were taken into consideration and you know again it costs a lot of money to run the

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pickle ball courts. It's also creates a lot of issues. We ask people not to put their bikes on the fence that it ruins the fence but then you have to have somebody to come around and argue with somebody that says oh you got all that money I can just do whatever I want.

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Tell them to buy a new fence. So that's your clientele. >> Oh yes, they do. >> And they did. >> They did. >> No more. >> Okay. >> With the with the bike racks down. >> And I was there when they did. >> The bike.

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>> We can Excuse me. Excuse me. I'm going to have to call order here. It's not a conversation between the two between these groups. If you can direct your attention. If you'd like to say something, come up to the mic, state your name and address, and speak. Right now, the president of the recreation board is speaking. And I I understand

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you have a reaction to that, but if you could just continue, I appreciate your >> So anyway, we we we do stand by our recommendation with the uh amount of money that's expended and looking at all the facilities and all the activities that are run through the through the

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city. Um which I think enhances our um community. It enhances uh activities especially for our youth and we try to make sure that the youth sports are as

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um I don't want to say cheap but as less expensive so that our children can be involved in activities and if they have to be subsidized a little bit by adults that that philosophy is there as well.

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So, thank you for all your consideration and looking at all the angles and uh offer you support. >> Thanks, D. >> We don't have a ski slope here, right, with those prices, >> right? Thank you, Diane. And I appreciate everything that the rec board

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does. I know it's um I know it's a lot a lot of time. >> Yeah, Diane, thank you very much for all all your work and all the work of the committee. You know, you obviously you put a lot of time into this, everything that you looked at. I'm sorry that we're not there, but I'm hoping to find a

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balance. >> Sports camp that goes on for all the kids, the the additional uh marine science camps that go on board. These are all things that um that are that are great programs. >> Uh Barbara Lombardo again, um Vetner, I just want to say Pickleball doesn't need

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software, doesn't need court reserve. All the other town, um Egg Harbor, Galloway, Long Beach Island, they don't use software. People just go put paddles up and they play. So, Benter's making a lot of money by doing court reserve and and doing it

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this way, but you don't have to have software to play pickle ball. >> How How is Benner making a lot of money off of >> Well, I mean, they're making money because now you're charging us whatever you're going to charge us and you're, you know, we're limited, but you're making money whereas we could just go there.

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>> You heard the mayor talk about what it costs us for those courts, correct? >> Yeah. This is Yeah. But it cost the other >> they're not making money. No making money on >> pick. But the other towns that don't use the software and people just go and play >> if Yeah. >> They're not getting anything. >> I understand there's a two different

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devices. I just would characterize making money as actually >> well you're making more than G >> more than the cost, >> right? But you're making more than the other towns that don't run software and don't run a program for two months. So I just wanted to say that we don't necessarily have to have software

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playable. you have reserve is is for control over it. You can't have 600 people that buy memberships all showing up at the same time. >> Correct. >> 559 people showing up with a paddle. >> Well, they do it in other towns.

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>> Okay. All right. Thank you. Anybody else in the committ commission chambers would like to speak on pickle ball? >> My name is Barbara Miller Balm. I live on Bentner Avenue in in Benner. >> Okay. I just want to remark that I've been part of many organizations who use

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Signup Genius. Signup Genius is free. You don't I've been doing it for Maang. I've done it for pickle ball with uh uh there's a place in Silver's Point. So, it's free if you want to go to Sunf Genius. It would serve the same purpose.

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>> Thanks. Thanks. We use it for the rowing club. >> Anyone else in the community? >> Yeah. >> Uh my name is Chris Brennan. I live in Ventner. Um I feel as if the real issue here is the fact that basically a fee

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was increased with really not much communication and I think that's probably why you guys got a tremendous amount of push back. But also what I'm hearing that Pat had shared with us is that maybe um some of the ad original

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advisory committee is maybe not included in on some of this decision making. I don't know if that's accurate or not. Sounds as if it is. And I think a lot of this would have been avoided if you guys had communicated with the advisory

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committee and then a lot of people really trust Pat and Bill and some of this would have been avoided. So I would almost think going forward that would be a good bridge to cross. >> Okay. >> And that's all I have to say.

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>> Thank you. >> Anybody else in the commission chambers? wish to speak on ordinance. >> I know there's somebody in >> 17 167 hearing hearing any not hearing anyone. Is there anyone in the zoom platform with a hand raised? Looks like a Jack Fineberg.

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>> Yes, Mr. Fineberg first and then Mr. Rogers would be next after that. So, >> okay. Thank you. >> Mr. Fineberg, you can unmute. You >> speak up if you could speak on your mic so everyone can hear you, please. >> Can you hear me? >> That's better. Yes,

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>> at this point. Okay. Sorry for the confusion. Um, first off, I am a longtime Ventner resident. I currently reside at 109 South Sophomore Avenue. >> Please speak a little please speak a little slower, sir. >> Okay. Uh, 109 South Sophomore Avenue, Ventner. Proudly a alumni of the Ventner

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pirate organization. Um, I'm also a significant uh person involved with pickle ball. I am currently a member of the governing body of pickle ball. I attempted to be involved in your reconstruction and

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financing, all of which was just turned away by the city and the various people I spoke to. Right now, there's an income stream that's very possible within your organization that has been rejected. And at the end of last year, I presented to

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the rec board a plan where the veteran pickle ball advisory committee could run a tournament uh over a selective weekend as a grand opening tournament for the courts that would have raised somewhere between 10 and $20,000. That tournament

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could also be run on a yearly basis to provide a revenue stream. Uh the last time we ran it, uh we were able to donate $10,000 to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and reserve $10,000 that was used for various

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programs along the city. Had there been any cooperation with the Vetner uh board with the uh Vetner pickle ball advisory committee, that revenue source could have been selected and instead a for-profit organization was given uh the

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the proposed date which locked us out of uh an appropriate date uh to provide services to provide the tournament. And additionally, the uh special events committee uh blocked a summer weekend for again a for-profit organization when

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again that particular time frame could have been used for the Vetner uh pickball organization to run a tournament for the benefit of the city. So there are there are alternate sources of revenue that the city could use that have been ignored and I just wanted to

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bring that to the commission's attention. >> Okay. Thank you. If you want to bring those to my attention, I can talk to the rec department again about them. If you've already brought them up to the wreck, we have a good um we can we can discuss them later. I appreciate it. >> Thank you, Mr. Fber. Anyone else in the

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Zoom platform that wishes to speak on >> Mr. Rogers is next >> 167 >> and I'll recap it at the end here. >> Mr. Rogers. >> Paul. >> Mr. Rogers.

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>> Give him a few more minutes. Sometimes >> uh that that should do it. Can you hear me now? >> Yes, sir. >> Uh thank you very much. First of all, I I want to >> uh 111 South Cambridge. >> Thank you.

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and because I am an apartment lei, I'd like people to know there's a difference between resident, non-resident. So, if we do consider non-residents um different than residents, I'd appreciate that. But that's my own issue. But I just want to say one of the

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fondest things that Vendor does is pickle ball. You mentioned a number of 600 people that have come to Vener because of it. Uh there's not another sport that wreck board or anybody anybody in the United States plays that's so inclusive. I guarantee anybody

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there who hasn't played pickle ball at vendor tonight in the room if they went there and played with the people Lance Con mentioned you'd have fun and you'd be welcomed in a community and it's been growing from how Pat pointed out 20

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people five people to now 600. Now that you have more courts and we have orderly fashion to do things the way they use the rep department functions, you will have more and people do say fond and great things about vendor because of vendor pickle ball. So I think it's fair

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to have a fee. I kind of agree with Commissioner Mento about maybe the sh the sticker shock of 50% increases is very tough to take and other local Atlantic county se uh sea communities

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offer more expensive pickle ball expenditures for free. So there is that too. So it's what do you serve? And one more point I'll make it that this does really mean most of the players that are being charged are paying for the 8week for the

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summer of which one was given away to Funky Pickle without anybody's that I think that is a good discussion item that Jack brought up because that's the fee is not really considered an annual fee in most people's mind. It's the

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people coming down in the summer to play with their friends on Saturday and Sunday. And now we have an organized fashion that uses court reserve, which is a challenge to get in and play when you want to play. Yes, you can play in the afternoon. I'm glad you brought that up, but you can't play with the people

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you want to play with because we don't have enough capacity. That will be relieved a bit by adding the three courts. But as the pickle ball use grows, many people are moving to vendor or coming to vendor to do to enjoy that. So thank you for supporting it. Thank

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you for making the course great because we think they are and I think that you'll have continued growth and people speaking kindly of ventner how we are doing it. So that's all I had to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, >> anybody else in Zoom

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>> comment >> wants to comment? >> No, >> just one thing. >> Just one thing. >> We're out of room. >> Uh, Bill Saban, Vetner, Lafayette Avenue. I am on the veterary advisory

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committee. Just a a quick synopsis. Once this all gets done, when will Court Reserve be open >> so people can sign up? >> Tomorrow. tomorrow. >> Okay. So that we can put that out. That court reserve will be open tomorrow

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to play on what day of the weekend you're going to have a ribbon cutting. Is that correct? >> Uh yeah. >> So that means Saturday would be out or >> No. >> No. It'll all be court reserve will operate. >> It's open now. So we're just going to stand there and cut a ribbon. We're not >> I mean

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>> we're not going to even ask people to stop playing. I want to just cut ribbon and let people keep playing. We we need >> there's $150 ticket price for the >> lot. So the Hey, >> I It's a great place. We We love it

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there. We want to continue it on. Uh Pat has been absolutely fabulous. Brought this all here and about. If it wasn't for Pat, we wouldn't be having a discussion like this. So, uh that plaque should be made for her at the ribbon cutting. That's for sure. So, uh, just

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like to know when it opens, what would be the first day we can sign up for? That's what people are going to want to know. If you open it on tonight or tomorrow morning, is it 3 days in advance? >> So, that would be Friday. So, it would be Saturday. So, we we wouldn't be able

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to be on court reserve until Monday. So, Saturday and Sunday would just be free open play. We'll pass that. I'm going to That's above my pay grade. I'm going to pass that on to Diana. >> Don't leave. You'll figure it out. >> We might have an answer by the end of today, but

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Anybody else have anything to offer for the good of the order regarding >> ordinance number 167? >> Just one quick question. If this is going to Beth Torsello from Vetner, um if this is going to open, uh what will

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the price be? >> That's what we're going to vote on in a minute. Okay. Stay tuned. We're gonna going once right now. So, anybody else on the Zoom platform before we close this for a recap? So, there's a couple things on the table

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right now. One is to keep the fee for seniors, a new a new stage for seniors at the original 100. And then uh a blanket fee like I said adults that's what we call them and others for 120

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>> right >> and that would be the amendment to the resolution if you choose I still >> support >> thoughts on the senior any thoughts on that or we do it for for beach badges we do it for the fish and pier

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>> support that >> okay I I could agree with that as well >> just thinking about the hearing And for seniors, >> I keep it at 100 and 120. That's where that's where I'm I should speaking to the mic. I'm sorry. Um what we're

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discussing is the senior fee staying at 100 and the fee increase for anybody else is is 120. >> Correct. >> I have an answer to that to the question. >> We have an answer to the question. And we have another comment from the from the president of the recreation

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department, Diane. If you're signing up on court re when you pay your beach fee, you go in and you say how old you are. When you go to the fishing pier, you go in and say, "I'm a senior or I'm not a senior." On court reserve, I don't know

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that you have that capability to differentiate and differentiate a price if it's a computer, >> right? >> Unless you manually walk into recoort. >> In in the case of the beach badges, they have to come in

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Yeah, >> this will be great. We'll spend some time on this too. >> Another question for Diana. >> Diana? Yes. >> Yeah. The the answer to the question is that uh we'll

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open court reserve tomorrow and you'll be able to play Saturday morning. The three days is only how early you can reserve. You can reserve as soon as it opens for active play. >> So it'll populate sooner than then it'll populate for Saturday. >> Right.

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>> So when that to answer your question, it'll open tonight. >> No, >> tomorrow. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Oh, tomorrow's Friday, right? >> The meeting's over. I'll let Diana know to get her and Sarah >> Saturday you'd be able to play. >> So the weather is good today. The courts are probably dry today. Tomorrow will probably be a good free day play. So,

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you know, tomorrow will be likely all free and then at the by the end of the day or while you're on the courts, the court reserve may become live for reservation. >> Well, I'm going I'm going to ask for some patience on the issue about seniors as to a what's the cut off? Is it 62? Is

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it 65? What's going to be? And secondly, I don't know off the top of my head where the court reserve has the ability of differentiating. So, we will need to know that. So, if you do the resolution, I'm gonna ask that you do it approve it contingent on what those are being able to do it.

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>> Okay. I'm good. >> I I think we should leave it uh make it the same as beach badges, which is 65, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Beach badges are 65 for seniors. So, I think we should do the same thing. >> 62. That's why I >> Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. >> I don't know why.

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>> Why are they 62? >> I don't know. >> I I guess there was some very influential 62y old fisherman at one time. Can we sort of do what do we call the others? Adult or versus child or just players?

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>> Players. >> We call them masters and growing. Should we say math pick or masters? Because >> I'm not sure who's in charge of court reserve, but brigotine absolutely has from uh up to age 60, you pay one fee.

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Over 60, you pay your senior rate. So, court reserve can do it. I guess we'd have to coordinate with the representative. Ask for everybody's patience as we work through that. >> Well, the person who is um taking care of it is watching the meeting, so she heard your comments.

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>> Okay, >> great. She's pro she's very efficient. Any other? So for the good of the order at this point we have a amendment to the resolution 167 that calls for seniors at the age of 65 to be $100 contingent on

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the ability of court reserve to accommodate that and players to be at $120. Does that make does that >> Yep. Does that make sense? Okay. All right.

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Where am I? Close. So, close public portion. Any other comments before we close public portion? >> Yeah, I I just wanted to ask I know that, you know, this is uh the revitalization is phase one and I guess there's more to come, you know, down in

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the fall. But we're wondering about the continuation of the screens and the paddle racks and the awning. I don't know, >> you know, are they all going to be t taken care of and put up? We've ordered um windcreens. >> Okay.

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>> Got a we were we originally posted custom screens that were >> you can get around >> panels there almost 75 of them $29,000 worth of so now we're putting in an alternative much cheaper $4,000

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dribbling in now. So >> we'll have those up. >> We installed temporary um racks today. >> Yeah, they were put up today. There are the metal ones, but the original wood ones we bought material to construct. We do the ones that you like and I'll

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myself from >> No, no, no. This is you're going to have to come up here again. It's not a conversation between you and Mr. Santo. You talked through the chair. >> Your name, sir? >> Click Lance Cone, 103 North Wyoming Avenue. >> Your question? My question is so we

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won't start we'll sign up for court reserve but we won't sign up the reserve courts until that next Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Is that the way it's going to be? >> No, I don't think you were following along. The court reserve is after the after the vote the date the time that the amount will be set and starting

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tomorrow court reserve will be open. The first available courts will be available on Saturday. Right. >> And open reserve tomorrow. >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, okay. I missed that. Sorry. >> But that that that's for signing up for Betner, right? That's when you paid $100.

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>> That's for paying your $1,000 membership fees >> and reserving your court time. >> The same the whatever you normally do that will be available to you tomorrow. >> So, it's not like a three-day. >> No. Okay. >> Folks are not paying attention. Mark Tom through that and settle. So, just to

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update on the rest of the improvements to the courts. So, we weren't able to get the the landscape area, that brick area that we're going to redo all that. There's going to be a pavilion built closer to the building there, 24x 24 covered structure with picnic benches, places to sit, all that. On the other

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side, in the little area that's kind of the the courtyard inside like surrounded by fencing in the building, that'll all be torn up, rellandscaped, redone, and we have um those sail type structures with with poles to hold to give you shade in there all the time. And they'll stay up. We'll probably pull down the

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winter, but for the most part, they'll be up all summer. So, that's that'll happen in the fall um through next winter. Um I didn't want to hold back the courts any longer, and we don't want contractors there while you guys are playing. So, that's Sorry, it's not done now, but it'll get done. I'd rather do

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it right and not rush through. >> Dirty. Yeah. Dangerous process. That's why we're going to do that. Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> All right. So, I'm motion to close public portion. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Third. >> Roll call. >> Lisa. >> Commissioner Lang Grant. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. Mayor >> Creable. >> Yes. So I will just interject that we

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are just to recap the uh resolution 167 will be 65 will be at age 65 $100 for seniors. players will be 120. Based on the conversation we had, we will look into property owner, non-propy owner. We will look at improving and upgrades to

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uh court reserve reservations and we will also open up uh vehicles for those in the pickle ball community to open uh fundraising um opportunities. >> Yeah, we >> So, I had my own senior moment. What did you decide on the age cut off? 62. >> 65.

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>> 65. >> 65. Okay. Three more years for those folk those youngsters. Uh >> bring your Medicare card. >> Make Medicare price. May I have a motion to close the workshop portion of the

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meeting and call to order the regular portion of the meeting? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langra. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creel. >> Yes. May have approval. Motion to approve minutes from the May 7th special meeting. So moved. >> Second.

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>> Second. Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Lang Grant. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. Mayor Creable. >> Yes. We have no ordinance introductions this evening. May I have May? >> I'll wait till the room clears and we'll

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have some quiet here. May I have a motion to open for public hearing ordinance 009? This is uh amending chapter 220 code of the Atlantic City of Ender uh the rates related to water usage. May I have a motion?

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>> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> I have roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langrass. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Crabel. >> Yes. >> So that's open to the public. >> Open the public for public hearing.

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Anyone wish to comment on ordinance 009 water usage? Nobody jumping up. Anybody on Zoom wish to comment on this ordinance? >> Nope. >> Seeing none, may I have a motion to close public hearing on ordinance 009?

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>> I'll make that motion. >> Second. >> Second. >> Commissioner Lang. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. Fair Creable. >> Yes. I have a motion to adopt ordinance 009 on water usage as described. >> Make a motion to adopt ordinance 2026- 009.

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>> Second. >> Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langra. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. Mayor >> Creel. >> Yes. I have a motion to open for public hearing ordinance 010 regarding uh or regarding uh code of the

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city of Ventner as the relates to water and sewer. This is just sewer. Sewer. I'm sorry. This is sewer. >> I'll make that motion. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Langria. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creable. >> Yes. Would anybody like to speak about

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sewer ordinances? >> Anybody on Zoom wish to comment on ordinance 010? >> Yep. >> Hearing none. Can I have a motion to close public hearing on ordinance 010? >> Make that motion. >> Second.

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>> Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langria. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Creable. >> Yes. I have a motion to adopt ordinance 010 regarding sewers rates. >> I'll make the motion to adopt ordinance 2026-010.

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>> Second. >> Roll call. L. >> Commissioner Langria. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creable. Yes. May I have a motion to adopt resolutions 2026-155 through 2026-166

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by consent as described in lengthy manner during the workshop. >> I'll make that motion. >> Second. >> Roll call. E. >> Commissioner Langrias. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mentos. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creable. >> Yes. And I have a motion to

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adopt resolution 167 with amendments stating that um contingent on the ability of the uh court reserve to um to operate a senior discount a senior rate at 65 years of

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age for 100 for $100 and general player for $120 $120. I have a I'll make that motion. Second. I >> have a roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Lang. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. Mayor >> Creable. >> No.

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>> I have a motion to approve bills and payrolls. >> Make that motion. Get them from her first. >> Please cut you off. >> Can I have bills and payrolls, please? >> Payables for this period is 6,161,34924. Payrolls for this period $714,6762.

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>> Thank you. Thank you. Can I have a motion to approve? >> No, I'll make that motion. >> Second. Second. >> Roll call. Lisa. >> Commissioner Langra. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Mayor Creel. >> Yes. Uh, no. No announcements or safety reports, but I'm sure we have some commissioner reports as we get into

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summer. Would you like to go first, Commissioner Mento? >> Sure. So, uh, revenue and finance is business as usual. and we have our CFO here who's been very busy the last few months. Um, but as far as more um timely

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um events coming up um on May 29th we have the Betner Homeschool Association color run at Ski Beach. So come on out and support the school. That's at 5:00 p. a.m. on May 31st. Also at Ski Beach is the Phillies tailgate

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300 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. So we'll be watching the Phillies game. On June 6 is Lour to Down Beach at Newport Avenue 12:00 noon. June 7th is the American Cancer Society Bikeathon at Ski Beach at

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11:00 a.m. June 13th is Dean Randazzo Cancer Foundation fundraiser at Ski Beach at 11:00 a.m. And uh we should have another meeting before these next ones, but I'll go through them quickly. June 27 and 28 is the citywide yard sale from 9:00 a.m. to

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12:00 p.m. June 27 is schools out for summer concert at Newport Avenue. And the band is Kick It Out Tribute Band. And uh June 29 is movie night at Ski Beach at 5:30 p.m.

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And um stay tuned for uh the concerts that'll start later. And everything is on our Facebook page, Vetner City special events if you want to know what's going on and our Vetner city Facebook page. So everything I just said

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is on that page plus some question. >> Um continuing with getting ready for the summer with uh we're rolling out our our beach mats going over the dunes. Every year we add a couple more um repairs. We had our GIF inspection on the boardwalk

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and and other areas of the city. So, public works will be out doing some repairs on some of the playground issues that are always always pop up. Um some stuff on the board the old section of the boardwalk. None of the new stuff needs to be repaired except one light. One light keeps going out. So, we're trying to figure out why one light's

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going out. Um engineering is on that. Um moving forward with uh I just saw some emails back and forth on the leadline service. We're waiting for the state to approve the IBA bank to approve our specs and and plans so we can go out to bid for those items to get that that

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project started. We wouldn't start till the fall, but we want to get a bid out over the summer and get a contractor in ready to do the work for phase one which will start in the Heights. >> Um I'm sorry, >> another meeting coming up for the public. >> Yeah, we do. I don't know the date of

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that. It's in June sometime. >> Actually, the same day as the yard sale, >> right? Yeah, it's we have another meeting. >> Yeah, I recommend going to that meeting. It's very informative, very wellrun, >> very they answer. It's very well very

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well put together. >> Going to tell Ernie had that posted. >> She's posted a couple times. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Um last you'll notice that some landscaping has been done around city hall. The library still in progress. And then up in North Beach, we re redid

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those um the islands that were done through that landscaping project. Um, and I also update on the Dorset Avenue uh, streetscape program. Um, both Matt and Jim Retellup made me aware and Tom helped me get into this. We're going to get the design stuff, the design process

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of that paid for by state grant. Um, so we won't have to pay consultant to do it. It's through a TAP program. Um, that is paid for through the state. Um, one of our consultant engineers is on that list. So I'm very comfortable with that. be able to bring somebody in that we're comfortable with that we already have in our pool

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>> um collars. We're we're hopeful to be able to use Collier's um engineering to do that work. >> That's great. >> Um so it'll be free design and then free money to do the work. >> That's great. >> So >> but the numbers are huge. So you have to So I I just want to re let you repeat that we have a 940 thou $80,000 grant to

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do the actual physical work, right? and the potential for a grant to do the actual design work over and above that >> 750 >> 700 750,000 >> I don't know it's going to cost that that's what's >> I'm hoping they're not going to charge $750,000 to design a $900,000 the numbers just

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don't work there >> right well you never know >> anything anything we get for free we're going to we're going to try and get so >> right and it's cost >> and we have to work it's actually only two like two >> yeah we do have to work with the county on this so that it's another concern we have to work with the county to make

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sure they're okay with what we're proposing, >> right? >> Um, and move forward. We will have once we kind of get with that contractor, that consultant, we'll have some some meetings like we did with the streetscape up there to get input. Um, more of a a workshop kind of meetings

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where we can bring people in that are interested that neighborhood and folks that have a care to put, you know, comments in along that that uh >> great >> that thing. So, >> bridge is starting to look nice. >> Yeah. Well, I wanted to pull this stuff off, right? That's it. >> I think they ran into more than they

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anticipated every time, but the guys there working are it's really going to be a >> great. Yeah. >> I have one more thing to say. Tom, thank you for all your help on the budget. All our questions, all my questions, even at the 11th hour, Amy also and Leon, you

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know, Leon's the bomb. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, >> I I do want you to know that I complained about you asking questions that quarter after five. But it was a good question. >> It was a good question.

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>> Got it. Yep. Um I I I echo those. Thanks. Thank you. Um the uh in early June, you have Well, I'm looking forward to the tour to Down Beach. Saturday, June 6, there is a bikeon which is kind of independent of the city, but that is always a big event. Brings lots of people from

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Philadelphia >> and it's a big event for our ski beach, right? >> The cancer society. the cancer society. >> June 7th. >> Um we do have public land sale coming up on June 9th. >> Yeah. >> Uh public auction of city owned land. Um

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there is two parcels. One is uh which was mentioned earlier, but I just want to reiterate uh if anybody wants if we can get that word out. the Jackson Avenue uh one on both on Veterary Avenue, one closer to Jackson Avenue is an empty city- owned lot uh that is advertised at the appraised value of

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$152,200 starting that >> that's the minimum bid. It's going to be auction >> and the second parcel is u locally known as the one next to Shalom PETA which is um the minimum bid

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is $138,000. These are these are exactly the appraised values. >> Um so we're hoping on uh to have lots of bidders. Apparently there is some interest in it. >> Um then we have Paddle for Cause coming

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up in June 13th. Um and I do have two uh public safety forums. One this Saturday at 10 o'clock for the Ventner Heights contingent at the recck department. Um, so anybody that lives in Veteror Heights and wants to talk about uh wants to hear a short presentation on the public

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safety departments uh and then have an open uh listening session for uh public safety and uh things uh in that in their specific community regarding public safety. I'll be there this Saturday at 10:00 at the recck department building

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at um and uh then the community yard sale at the end of the end of the end of the the month, June 27th, which is uh and that I guess that entire weekend. >> Um >> both days we changed that. Y addited second day. I have one other thing if I

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jump on >> and this this came to light through some some public comment on our on uh it was an email I guess I got from a resident. Um, folks are defacing our boardwalk. Um, stickers. Um, PD did reach out to that store. They said, you know, we didn't do it. It's people buy these

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stickers and they put them on things. So, if you see somebody doing it, tell them to stop. If you see somebody doing it, call the police. We will prosecute these folks. We spent a lot of money on this boardwalk. We're going to spend a lot more money on the second phase of it. Um, folks just shouldn't be defacing

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it. You know, graffiti, we can deal with stickers. we'll deal with it. But we really don't appreciate folks defacing public property. Um, so I appreciate the PD going down there and reaching out to the store. I'm not going to name them, >> but you know, it's it's defacing our

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property and it's not appropriate. So, just want to make that statement. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Um, thank you. The last thing I had was uh uh junior lifeguard program starts up in uh June 1st will be the online uh signups. That is a huge

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program for us. Last year there were 230 kids ages 5 through nine and 115 kids. On the second week, ages 10 through 14. Captain um uh um Megan um she uh

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Holland, she um runs that and uh with all the younger guards as well. So, it's a place for the younger instructors to to learn um uh the organizational side of it. It's really some like a a just a

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great hometown thing for uh for 35 kids roughly. Uh they get for $20 and they get a t-shirt. I don't know how. Maybe we need to raise that rate. I'm kidding. Um I'm kidding. Um so that is a great

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program. Uh any other commissioner comments or reports? Uh there's one last beach badges. That is the beach badge fees go up on Lisa, fill me in on Monday,

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>> June 1st at 3 o'clock. That is a Sunday. >> May Well, May 31st, right? >> Right. >> Sunday. Sunday's >> Monday is June 1st. So, >> yeah. So, if you want to get the reduced fee of $10 and you want to get your senior tags, you have to do it by Sunday at 3 p.m.

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>> Sunday at 3 p.m. June 1st. >> All beach tags. No more senior tags. All tags $20. No exceptions. >> No exceptions. There's no senior tags after that. So, all tags are $20 after June 1st at 3 pm. Please, Dana, put that

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out there. Um because there will be people that don't hear, people that hear hearsay, but there is no exception after Sunday, June 1st at 3 p.m. Text. >> Sunday's May 31st. So, after Sunday, >> after Sunday, >> effective June 1st. >> Effective June. >> Effective June 1st. $20. Got

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>> it. that we're starting our summer schedule for a commission meeting. >> Right. >> So, we'll just be having one meeting in June, one in July, and one in August. >> Okay. Thank you. >> One in June, one in July, and one in

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August. Any other commission or reports or comments? >> Nope. >> Good. >> All right. At this time, I get a motion to open the meeting for public comment. Anybody has wish to say anything about

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the city of Ventner? Um, I have a motion to open a meeting for public comment. >> Oh, make a motion. Motion to public comment. >> Motion. I'll make the motion. I >> second. >> Roll call. L. >> Commissioner Langria. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento. >> Yes. >> Creable. >> Yes.

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>> Hello. Anybody has something to say about the city of Veror? >> Hello. >> State your name and address. >> And Moscow 209 North Lafayette Avenue. Um, I I want to say publicly what I said, Tim, to you, um, excuse me, privately and to Lance privately. Thank you so much for what you guys did and

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and and Rick is here with regards to our issue at Calvert and and Lafayette. It's a obvious, you know, public safety issue and you guys, as I said privately, you addressed it very quickly. Uh I think there was four

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correct me four major things that you you that you did to correct it and it has worked really really well. So I want to thank you for that. Now we're getting to towards the end of uh Thank you, Maria, but you never picked up the phone. I'm only kidding. Stop it. Stop

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it. I'm only playing with you. I'm playing. I'm only playing. Um, so we're getting to the end of the school year and we know that the traffic situation will get be less and less. It's never going to be perfect. That's why what you did is really appreciated.

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I I'm hoping that maybe next year, maybe prior before school starting, we can sit down and talk about just that corner. I don't know if it needs a um a crossing guard or or or what. It's it's it is still, you know, kind of tough, but it's

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mostly during, you know, pickup, drop off, and things like that. We recognize that, like I said, we recognize that it's never going to be perfect. And just to thank you guys really publicly for what you did. You did it very quickly. And Rick, you too. You got you respond,

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you guys respond so fast. And and and we do appreciate it. One thing on beach badges, Belmar is $80. >> $80. >> $80 is Belmar. $12 for a daily pass. So, I think we have it pretty good here in Ventner. And I think our beaches here

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are wellmaintained. They're well guarded. You know, that's I'm not saying anything that's hasn't been said before. So, I think in in the grand scheme of things, um we're we're really in a good spot with that. And uh thank you. It's good to see you, Tommy, and you too, Leon and Amy.

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>> Thank you, uh Ken. And and just to follow up on that intersection, there was a a bike and pedestrian study done that recommended that there were other improvements done to that intersection. So I'll bring that back >> to PD and and to Lance's department to see what they can do. I know that there

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was some things that were done just in paint, but I think if you see down by it was paint where they where they've added >> some structures at the time, it was just beyond our capacity for financially. But we can look at I think that we can look

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at other calming opportunities. >> Well, look, that's great. I I I know you put the um pedestrian crosswalk signs out. >> One was hit or removed and put back and which is they're they're a big help. The lights the lights around the stop signs.

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>> Yeah, they help a lot. >> And and the sensors, boy, they pick you up pretty far down. >> They do. >> Yeah. Yeah, they do pick you up pretty far down. But, uh, it, like I said, guys, it's never going to be perfect and we know we're going to have an issue pick up and drop off during during this

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the school, you know, during the school year. So, um, but whatever we can discuss in the future. So, so thank you. Thank you for that. >> Get there. Any other comments from the public? Of >> course.

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TKER venture city. Earlier this evening, I voluntarily ended my thoughts and ideas and comments on the budget to comply with the city's policy of limiting the public's input to 3 minutes. I would have thought with a 6-centent tax increase and a 10%

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increase in base water and sewer charges, you would have told me to go on with my thoughts and hopefully maybe a suggestion that would have reduced this burdensome amount on the taxpayers. The potential savings from suggestions may have outweighed the three-minute limitation on the public's input. After

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all, a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then. >> We didn't stop it. >> Not doing so made me think of an irony of another event earlier this week. On Monday, Memorial Day, we heard heartfelt remarks honoring that men and women who

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gave their lives defending our freedoms. Those comments were sincere, meaningful, and appreciated. Two of those freedoms that so many gave their lives for and we speak so proudly of are the freedom of speech and the right of citizens to participate in their government and

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address their officials. Rights secured by those sacrifices. Yet when residents come before this governing body and freedom comes with sometimes a stopwatch attached to it. Sometimes we are told you may speak but only for three minutes. Now I understand meetings must

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be orderly and efficient. I'm not suggesting public comment should be unlimited, but when residents are discussing taxes, debt, public spending, redevelopment, or concerns affecting their families and neighborhoods, 3 minutes often feel less like a meaningful participation and more like a

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procedural formality. The very freedoms we celebrated on Memorial Day include the ability of citizens to petition and question their government without unnecessary restrictions. Public comment should not simply be something we allow because the law requires it. It should

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be something this governing body values and citizens demand because informed citizen participation strengthens democracy. The irony is hard to ignore. We honor those who die protecting freedom while the public is reminded to hurry up when exercising it. Again, I

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understand the need for structure and civility, but perhaps we should ask ourselves whether the current approach encourages genuine public engagement or merely attack checks a box before moving on to the next agenda item. If we truly value the freedoms our veterans fought

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for and the words spoken on Monday have true meaning, then we should strive to make public participation more meaningful, not merely more manageable. Thank you. >> Thanks for your comments. Uh, do we have >> Just to be clear, we didn't stop him from speaking the last time. >> No, >> he spoke for over 10 minutes.

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>> Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Well, we're >> Well, now you you made a comment. I think I should have Do I have a right to respond? >> No, that's typical. I won't respond. >> Stopping you. Go ahead. If you'd like to respond, >> you didn't stop me. But when I said I

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had more comments, you certainly didn't say go ahead. When I voluntarily said, "I've exceeded my three minutes," you didn't say, "Well, go ahead." >> He says, "Let it go." No one told >> you were having you were negotiating with yourself there, Tim. I'm sorry. You're not You weren't conversating with

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us. >> I would I would have thought you would have I thought I would have thought that my elected officials would have said, "Go ahead. We're interested in what you have to say." And not let it go. That's just again my opinion. >> All right. Your opinion. Thank you for your comments. If you have uh may a

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motion to close public comment, please. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Roll call. >> Commissioner Langraph? >> Yes. >> Commissioner Mento? >> Yes. >> Mayor Creable? >> Yes. Do we have any executive session? >> Not tonight. >> No.

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May I have a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Commissioner Lang, >> yes. >> Commissioner Mento, >> yes. >> Mayor Cable, >> yes. Meeting is journed.