Two meetings, please make a statement. Adequate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public in the press on January 22nd, 2026 and is posted at the municipal level in accordance with the open public meetings act NJSA 104-7.
Okay. Lifledge allegiance to the flag >> to the republic for which it stands nation indivisibley and justice for all. >> Roll call, please.
>> Council member Cino >> here. Member >> here. >> Member Rudo >> here. presence >> here. Everybody be aware, Marcy, we have a problem with the uh audio tonight.
>> Uh the microphones. >> Okay. >> So hopefully you can hear us. If you can't, let us know. We'll speak louder and when you come to the microphone, same thing goes. So no problem. And we'll work around it.
Tonight's discussion, there's two discussion items. Not an official budget presentation, but a budget discussion. That's a prelude to our new CFO is going to in the future meeting actually make the presentation of the budget. Our CFO
is new. She's here, been on board what, six weeks or so. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> I think I'm going to start my eighth week. >> Okay. So, it's it's a challenge gather all the information. We're we're approaching a point where uh you know deadlines are approaching and and fines
are are committed if the budget's not in on time. And uh we uh I sat I sat with the mayor and the uh CFO the other day. And this is a budget that we don't like. It's a uh we got some holes in the
budget. And one of the reasons we're doing this is to give those on the uh committee and anybody in the audience ideas on where we can close some of this gap. So we we have quite a bit to close and the CFO has identified some of
those. So as a general overview, what we'd like to do is just see what you've come up with, what you've discovered, what you inherited, and where we are. For example, how much did we collect last year in taxes? How much do you have to collect this year in taxes unless
something changes? How much did you use in surplus? Where's the expenditures? Did we improve any of our uh revenues? Just a general overview so we know what we're dealing with. >> Okay. So last year the amount to be raised by
taxes get that information. Last year the amount to be raised by taxes was 20,172838. This 22,799 121. Um so it has gone up. Um just
looking at it um you know we use surplus to you know balance the budget and the goal with the surplus is to at the end of the year you know um replenish it. So at minimum you want to make sure you bring back in what you uh used in
surplus. Last year you used 1.6 6 million and um at the end of the year you only replenished 890,000 of that with a deficit of 760,000
um and again that's due to um revenues um not coming in you uh delinquent taxes you just anything that we used as revenue to count so looking at the
revenue Um there were some items that were down, interest was down. Um and some of the um departments did not collect as much as they anticipated. Usually when we do budgets, we try not to anticipate
more. So we can't anticipate more revenue than we collected the year before, but also too when you do it, you try not to collect at the max either. But, you know, again, always trying to be keeping, you know, at an in um a tax rate, you know, reasonable
and it's done in many towns. They do push the revenues to the max because they push the revenues to the max and you didn't collect it. Now, you have a deficit in the revenue. So you used e you know the additional fund
balance last year and some revenues not um did not meet the goal. So again we have this deficit. We're preparing this budget. I did use the 1.6 again. Um just as a starting point um we're under
again there seems like some additional funds should be coming in this year um with these the pilot and some other um revenues that I believe the mayor has said will be coming in. So, we're hoping that our current revenues will come up to
where they were and that the additional fees that we're not budgeting for will help, you know, bring us back to replenishing our surplus. >> Okay. So, so you were conservative on the revenues coming in that may increase. You didn't you didn't go overboard.
>> No, I what I did is I pretty much did the same thing. I almost all the revenues are close to what we collected last year. >> Uhhuh. same you know so again using the I'm pretty much using close to the max of what I can use on collecting of the revenues and the surplus
>> did you go back a couple years previously were there any high notes that maybe something happened that we can duplicate or it's more of a flat trend >> I I really don't know because I don't I have the numbers of the departments that they bring them in but I don't know like
say let's say construction if they had a huge project that it was a freak thing that they got a lot of money one year. Like I don't know the history of what brought the revenues in, >> right? >> I could just tell you, you know, again, it the the revenues just did not exceed what they were the prior year.
>> So, if I'm correct, I think I heard you say you had six little over six million of surplus, used 1.6 million, what netted out to like you generated $800,000. So, the surplus went down by around $800,000. So what our surplus was
at as as of 123125 was 6,18,000. >> Okay. And you're figuring >> we're talking about maybe using another 1.6 100 1,650,000. >> So that'll bring our surplus down to 4.4
million and as a percentage of the tax revenue 22 million. Now we're getting down to uh you know a uh >> so and we need to um try to replenish our revenues and
um because if we continue at this rate we will have no fund balance in about eight years. >> Yeah. So some of these uh surplus just for the public's benefit some of the surpluses were generated during co towns were getting money from the state to
stay active and the expenses were less. So when that occurs your revenue goes up and then as you get back to normal >> now you're starting to spend some of that uh extra surplus you had on >> and again costs are going up so you're trying to offset the expenses too right?
So um you know you know it's the re again if our revenues um may need to be addressed on fees and stuff to see if they maybe are um if they have if the departments haven't updated their fees lately. They may have
to look at that. Also >> I think I think some of the biggest problems we had was the double digit increases in insurance um pensions. the I have a list of it not here today, but it's a a list of of double digit increases that really
>> So, the biggest thing was contracted increases and pays >> correct. >> As well as health insurance, I guess. >> Yeah, our obligations. Yes, >> like a 20 25% increase in health insurance. Is that projected or are they real numbers? They're >> number real numbers.
>> We've had that for the last several years. So, >> so just as a history, the town for three years in a row had a 0% tax increase that ate up some of the surplus and the town generated a little more revenue than they predicted. Last year it
started to catch up to us and it was a 7% increase. So this year there's a couple new uh labor union contracts and no one wants to get to the point we have a census of the number of employees, who makes what, which department generates
the most expense. No one wants to stand up here and say we have to cut five people or 10 people or one person, you know, because whenever you have a uh a town that's run by unions, they're not going to say we'll automatically take a
0% this year to keep our co-workers employed. It'll be the last one in the first one to go is the way that that works. We we want to avoid that at all costs, but it could happen. We don't know. So, your largest expense is probably the police department. Correct.
In terms of >> uh yes, I believe so. >> Okay. And then beyond that, what where do we stand? What DPW? >> Um I don't know in what respect you're asking. >> Yeah. Just in terms of total tax. >> I mean, again,
I don't think anybody really went up incredibly amount. I mean, it's I know finance actually, but um that's because we're just trying to deal with the transition of having because we have
a contract in with me coming in and the changeover. So, um, and then also too in finance, I had to put an additional approximately $20,000 in for a, um, admin fee for a loan that uh, a New
Jersey I bank loan that you will be um, have a closing on at the end of this month. >> And it's the administration fee and I needed to put it in the budget because it is it's got to be paid. >> Okay. And it's it's got to happen. So it can't >> happen.
>> As we sat and went over the budget, were there any things that I remember you found a few things that >> Yes. So I those are those are they in your new budget or >> So what um last year I guess there was a note to break out the snow and ice out
of um the the road department. So when I moved the snow and ice out of the road department, I had put the overtime of the $100,000 and not taking out $100,000 out of um road department where it's
currently being charged. So I did reduce that uh by 95 only because the other overtime was kind of over like it just was over the balance of the um so was we budgeted 140 and we needed
like an additional 41,000 for just the regular overtime. So instead of taking the whole 100 out I took 95,000 out. Yeah. >> Um, also to fire prevention. Um, for some reason, I don't when his budget came over, he had $10,000 and it wasn't
supposed to be $10,000. It only to be $7,000. So, I did go over the departments and kind of looked at certain numbers. So, we did kind of tweak out some things that maybe were incorrect. So, we probably that day reduced it by about $117,000.
>> Right. So, so for the council, that's what we're hoping everybody could do. Take take good looks. >> Go ahead, sir. >> Change in the uh handling of your snow recovery. Um,
wasn't there a change there? I read that there's a an statement received from the state that we can move what we spent on snow recovery in 76 from
uh using that money to cover that amount of money that was spent. >> 76 being I'm sorry uh 25 26. >> Okay, good. So again, we have what's called a um a snow trust. So we do it
does be it is being you does get used um and that's what it's there for when you have a storm that's you know a little out of control whatever. But >> the money that I put in there is what you budget every year. It's it's not I'm not increasing it because of this snow
million dollars in that account. Whatever we spent whatever we used in Right. So >> this year we can you we use that amount of money from that particular line item. >> Correct. So like I said in the regular
budget I budget what you budget every year. Forget how many snowstorms we have. And then if I go over that, then yes, we would hit the snow trust. And then at the end of the year, if for some reason, not this year, we can't say it, but next year if we have a really mild
winter, anything that's left in this snow, I will put that money it back into the snow trust. So it kind of goes, you know, we have a good mild winter, the money goes into the trust. If we have a bad winter, it comes out of the trust.
>> So that's separate from taking money out of the general surplus. It's specific for the uh >> it's yes >> you can't you can't utilize the snow trust for anything else but >> except for and actually they changed it from the term snow trust to storm because of
>> right storm recovery because of the hurricanes and stuff like that. So it kind of falls in along with those um catastrophic um events. >> Yeah. Some of the other items were uh just reduction $10,000 here or there for
printers or service agreements >> that we can try to live without. Then the mayor is explaining that there's three ways to pave roads. You know, you full ashvault then the slurring process and then uh tar and chips and the
difference between amongst all three is huge. So you're trying out the slurring process. >> Yeah. on some in some developments. Uh Cory's recommended that we I've seen it on highways, but they're recommending that we best to use it in in
developments that have the curbing. So, I I think this year we are we are set to uh do storm estates. Um, I like I said, I think it was like to pave a road and black top is like last year's price was I don't know what this year's price
is, but like $14 a square uh a square yard and and uh then the slurry seal was like $7 and you know what got bigger here. I think it's like $3 for chip and seal, which as you know, no
one likes that. Um, so there's a big difference in in uh in savings. So, we're going to we're going to test the product out this year. Um, and hopefully many areas get have a huge success with it and it's half the cost. Um, not as
smooth as black top, but then again, you know, tar and chip. Uh, I see that on roads where I thought it was just I thought it was black top. So, after years, you know, it gets leveled out. Um, so some of it's not that bad, but I think I think the slurry seal will be
hopefully we we can get more roads done, right? >> Um, half the cost. So, we'll see. >> So, we're looking into it. We're trying to be creative going from $14 a yard to seven. Yes. >> Down to three for the uh the shipping. >> Yep. And another question I had
10 years ago, the governor put into a place thing called chapter 78, which made public workers have to start paying for their health care benefits, a percentage of it, just like the private industry has been paying since 1990 and the public workers were paying 1.5%.
So, it was under Christie that uh that was put into place and those making 100,000 or more have to pay 35% of their health care benefits. Public workers didn't like it, but it was fair because everybody else had to pay. And some towns since that uh six-year period of
phasing it in ended, they're starting to give some of that back, but we're not. We're fair to the employees and we're fair to the taxpayers. So if it was a certain percentage had to be paid, that percentage is still in effect today. If you make less, you pay a lesser
percentage, but if you make more, then you pay more of a percentage and you get a Cadillac plan on top of it. So that's still in effect. There's been no givebacks on that. Others, if this is our draft budget, when are we
going to get the non-draft budget? So again, um, different towns do it different ways. So I'm just kind of figuring out how, um, Vernon does it. So we're going to, this, I would say, would be a draft that would go into the
introduction. So, my understanding is you guys were going to look at it this evening and or look at it and give me some I guess things that you want me to check into or look into and then based off of that we can put that into an
introduction for the next meeting. >> So, it'll be your formal presentation at the next meeting. Yeah. The idea here was to help you and come up with five people or more that have ideas or have some experience. >> Well, again, it's, you know, where the council is comfortable, too, you know.
So, you know, it's I that's kind of why we're bringing it out. So today the budget has to be delivered to you but the introduction I believe is at the next meeting um where it becomes legally
in uh introduced um and then and then after that will be the adoption period. So, but it's good, you know, like I said, you guys have a draft copy of pretty much what is going to be on the uh introduction, but
I think it's good that, you know, we take a look at this and and try to find ways to, you know, save money and um like I said, that's why I brought you in, Bill. I thought it was important for you to see some of the frustrations that, you know, that that we deal with.
So, um, I said we're we're all taxpayers here. We're all, uh, trying to do the best we can for for taxpayers. >> We made a note on uh, uh, Tina lease versus owned vehicles.
>> Just if you do a little research, >> I know we use lease vehicles. We use enterprise. might just be worth checking other lease companies, compare the rates to the two, you know, as a uh as an exercise. Some towns own them, some lease them. Who
knows? Maybe we'll find a way to save some money on that. >> Yeah, we we don't we own some vehicles, right? Um I think the single axle trucks, um we have Digger here. He could probably talk a little bit about it. Um, but then some trucks we do lease. Um,
and I did speak with Harvey about this year, but so we were kind of handing in trucks that had still had low mileage on them and uh kind of upset me because a bit. So I think we should look at purchasing some. Um, I do know what our patrol cars we um I think the term is
like four four years. I think we we then try to flip them and and you want to keep up to date with the police cost, right? Um, nice thing you want is 70 square miles, uh, is a lot is a lot to cover. Um, and these cars are constantly
they're constantly on um, idle. So, they take they take abuse. Um, so we want to replace those every I I want to say four years, I think, is the is the time frame. >> We want we want to flip those. So, >> it's another major factor that affects
municipalities, and that's the state of New Jersey. They like to come in with programs. One program being a senior is a senior freeze. You make underneath a certain amount of money. You'll get back the increase on your taxes for the
previous year, which is which is fine. And it doesn't cost the Vernon taxpayers anything. It comes out of the state. So if your taxes were going to go up 500, you get a rebate check of 500 bucks. There's also the anchor program. Then there's also the New Jersey save, but
and all of those do not cost the town any money. And then there's the veterans program. We've spoken about this before and me and I always say I'm pro veteran all the way, but the the way it is is that that is an unfunded mandate on the
state of New Jersey to the municipalities. A veteran goes through the VA. If he claims a disability or she claims a disability, they're granted that disability. They then get the last year's taxes repaid to them and going
forward they pay no tax and so that comes directly out of the other taxpayers. So at this point Patty said that we have like 2.3 million in a rears and shortage in our taxes. 1.1 million
of it is the veterans uh tax exemptions. So half of our deficit is that. And you'll see on tonight's agenda, there's another 12 veterans that'll will benefit from that as well. So that amount goes up. That's a big big number and it's 4
and a half% of your tax budget. So it's a big program. We'd wish the state would simply say we'll pay it rather than us, but they haven't said that. And uh that's half of our budget hole right there. Anyone
else on the council have anything they found by looking at the budget or want to make any comments? >> My only question is are we going to be doing a work session where we can discuss everything we might want to change or review before the formal
introduction just so that we're not going back and forth. >> Probably a very good idea. I think that would be a really good idea >> because then we could really take this apart, look at it, discuss it, and we wouldn't be there wouldn't be anything else on the agenda. That would be the one thing we have to accomplish.
>> Is that a good idea on your part? You think it's a good uh >> Yeah. Depending on the day. >> Yeah. Cuz personally, I have a family emergency. It's going to take me out of state for one month taking care of a close relative. So I can do everything
remotely, but Sandy will be chairing the next couple of meetings. >> What about CFO being present for these meetings? >> I would like. >> Yes, >> we'll get it done then. Brad, good idea. >> Yeah, I'm fine with >> any other comments.
>> Uh just just a couple of quick ones on the departmental budgets. Uh you provided us back to 2023. Is there any way we can get uh back to 2023 on the revenues? Also,
I just I'd like to look at trends of things. Just to give you one brief example here, uh the short-term rental permits in 25 we budgeted $50,000. 26 we're budgeting $60,000, but last
year we brought in 935. But I don't know what it was like the years before. I like to see if it's, you know, if that's an area we can capture. Um, another one I had too was just a quick line item that caught my eye was the
auditing one. >> Mhm. >> And it had and I [clears throat] lost the page in my fingers here, but >> it's under finance under >> Yeah. It Yeah. I think there's 60 or $70,000 budgeted for it, but we've only spent the last two years. One year was
10,000, the other year was 8,000. What's the extra number for? >> Okay. So, um I would have to So, what happens is they're doing it as a year to all these numbers that you're looking at are
what's called uh are always reflecting as of the December 31st of that year. And auditing fees always get paid the following year because this year when they do so when they did so in 2026 they'll do the 2025 annual debt
statement the the um and help with the budget process that I'm sorry not the budget process the audit and the audit is for 2020. We always pay that the year after. >> Okay. So but then would that show up in year to date for the following year?
No, because it's not hitting that budget. >> Okay. So then shouldn't it show up in the other year? >> I mean it's encumbered someplace. It has to be recognized someplace. >> So what happens is when we run the reports for the year to dates, >> it gets and again looking at this
they're running it that as of December 31st of 2025, this is what the number was. If you ran this same account as of um today, let's just Well, it's hard to say because we didn't do the audit yet, but
if we did it as of in July, as of July 31st of 2026, looking at the 2025 budget, that's where you'll see it because we haven't paid the 2025 audit yet because they haven't done it yet. >> Okay. I'm still I'm still a little
confused why it doesn't show up in one of the years then. But that that I found just now too. But um I would just tend to think then so then some place in in the in the in the calf or the audit has to show up
in which year? >> So again, if you look at if you're looking at >> Yeah, I got it. I got it now. Yeah. So on page 12 if you look it says year to date and it says as of it's that doesn't say as of but it's as of 123125. >> That's what this snapshot is.
>> Now we moved on. We went we started doing 2026 whatever. I'm we still do have charges that and this is in all budgets. I mean the audits obviously only because a big nut gets paid the following year but things do get charged
back to 25. So these items may not reflect what this total is as of today because we could have paid something as you see when we did the transfers, you know, because we had some late bills coming in for um you know the engineer
>> that's all getting charged back to 25. So that's actually even changing the engineers number. >> Okay. So if I So if I were to look at 25's audit that was given to us, would that include those numbers if they were paid in 26 but were encumbered in 25?
>> No, because they were paid in 26. So the only thing I could say is to capture that if you were looking for a particular line item, I could run it that >> that bought it for you as a >> Yeah. >> And again, we didn't pay for the order. I would just like to see what was
actually spent and not you know I I totally understand the accounting end of it and how how that happens but that doesn't do us any good to when we're looking at something and something's budgeted at 67,000 but we you know according to this only spent $10,000 and
$8,000 I I get what you're saying how much do they charge for the audit? So that is um you have approve approved a uh not to exceed on them >> and it should be the not to exceed unless some other cost came up again.
>> Okay. Is it possible to get the revenues back to 23? >> I think that would be a problem. >> Okay, that'd be great. Thank you. >> When will we receive the 25 audit? >> They are due to us by June 1st.
I believe I saw the audits in the mayor's hands at the last meeting. >> What it a books? Those are the old audit books. >> Okay. We haven't Yeah, I was going to say we have not received the 2025 audit yet. Actually, they're not coming in
until the second week of April to uh work on what it's the audit. >> No, late. >> No, it's it's Yeah. No, as long as they
get it to us by June 1st, it's you know, they'll be here for approximately 3 to four days in the data and then >> they'll get back to us. >> Okay. Anybody else? Thank you very much. Next subject that we have for discussion
item is the uh solid waste collection program. Few years ago it was brought up by I guess previous mayor and kind of went nowhere and uh current mayor brought it up but nine months ago or so. >> Bill, do you do you remember what that
what that was even about? I don't remember it but do you remember what that garbage was? Is that >> originally? >> Yeah. >> No. No. >> I'm going more on what I've heard, right? Okay. >> I personally heard I heard other people. It could have been incorrect and you may
have been the first. It's quite possible. >> Okay. >> And uh so some plans were put in place. Some footnote is there. Program was presented. We got into an exchange and tried to define some of the true costs so we could see if it's a viable
program. And uh Brad volunteered to uh be up spreadsheet man on this one. Come up with some uh identify cost and break even points. And Brad, if you care to explain to us what you came up with. Well, I what I kind of did was I know
there was some um discussion back and forth about a break even based off of how many pounds collected and so on and so forth, but you know, it's it's kind of a variable program because it's going to based on whether you have one user or
250 or 500 users because it's going to all that stuff drives how much garbage is collected and then how many trips are taken to to the dump and then the chip tipping charges and stuff like that. So, I have the pleasure of my house going
over to Skuma every Saturday morning. So, I know how much garbage we generate. And over the course of a few months, it's basically it averages about $5 per one of your garbage bags that you're the kitchen garbage bags that you're talking
about. F five pounds. um and we're only allowing people to bring I think it was seven bags um to the uh collection. So I did some assumptions on it. I think all the council members have this as well and uh
took into account of the compactor and spread that out over seven years even though according to uh depreciation most of the national average is something like 17 years on a on a compactor. Assume repairs and maintenance. Assume what an average wages of a person that's
going to be working in there. Average benefits package, pension contribution. Um the any additional hours that the center is going to be open to uh allocate that to garbage program. Open up for um I think it's 32 hours now and
now we're going to be opening up for another uh six hours or I think it's 30 hours and then six hours. So I took all that and I put it in a spreadsheet and then took those numbers and bring it brought it over to the number of users.
One user 25 users because there's fixed costs involved and there's variable costs involved and the fixed cost if we have one user that person's going to assume all that cost right or or the town is going to assume all that cost. But the more users you have that fixed
cost gets spread out and therefore per user the fixed cost is diminishing over time. So, I broke it out and it went up to 500 users, 25 or 50 person increments and stuff. And um when it got to 300 users,
probably at that point in time, you'd have to add another person. Um and I calculated that person in to be there in that area all the time. Um whether that's going to be needed or not, again, it's it's all an assumption. So, um, I
broke that all out. So, the council, if they have any questions, I can kind of explain it more if you need it. But that's basically, um, what it came the tipping charges I have in here at 125. They're actually, I think it's 107
>> um, for the town. >> Um, I guess the municipality gets a discount because for it's 125. And you know, I I figured in a $100 flat rate per per hour for trips to schuma.
That's before diesel went up to 550 a gallon. So that's probably more as well now because I think I did this back in November or December. So um if anybody has any questions, I'm more than happy to entertain them. >> Yeah. So for the public, you know, if you have one person, the program loses
$27,000. As you add people, as Brad said, the deficit becomes less. And then when you get to 150 users, turns into a profitable program. So between 150 and 300, you go from a profit for the town
of $1,700 total up to $30,800. And at 300 people, you've now maximized out the usage of the manpower that's on site. So you have to add another person right away. Then your cost skyrockets
because they is expensive with their benefits and all and then you start losing money. And so right now the break even point and it would be nice to have 300 people and limit it at that or come up with somebody or somehow putting
another person in there from the DPW with zero cost. I don't know where that person's coming from. If they exist, if they exist, that means they're doing something else already. But >> if if you want to comment on that. >> Yes. Um
I I I think we we we need to understand that the compactors that we have now are accepting our township garbage from the parks. that. So even if
one person ties into the program, we don't lose money because we're still going to schoo with our household, you know, our municipal garbage. Anyway, um we do have uh staff, so there is no extra staff required. Uh and that right
now is 44,880 is is what that salary is. Um we we did I did go and I have I have uh Craig here from DPW that can I would like to bring him up just so he could just talk. >> Sure. It's a discussion item. It's fine.
>> We talked about the maintenance on the on the machine um which we we figured it was $2,800. We we looked at the history and I think it was $2,800 uh every two years. Um but I will give the floor to you.
>> Thank you, Council Craig from the DPWK Digger. Um the numbers I came up with for our salary is 44880 for the one person. His benefits would be 14662.
Uh you have our pensions it's 8% it's 7.5%. So [clears throat] down in labor where you have the six hours of $57 an hour his salary is 2157 which brings that number down to 672984.
So, and >> can I inter can I interrupt? Yes, sir. The the $21 is that just his 44 divided by 52 uh by 2080 or is it included salary 215? >> So, the 57 I have here includes his benefits and pension and stuff like that. And so,
>> and his benefits and package you have at 30,000 >> that is 14,662. >> Mhm. >> And you have his salary. >> Yep. >> Okay. Yep. Pension is 7 and a half%.
>> Wrote that down. Thank you. >> Labor, which is going to be different because you have it six hours of $57. >> Mhm. >> 2157. So, it should bring that down to 6,729. Of course, this is not up and running yet with 300 users. I And I'm speaking
for Howard. Not that we can do with the manpower we have. Aka if parks has people out. We put two people in parks. The MUA needs something with our vac truck that we have. Then we take our guys, we go help
MUA. We're very versatile what we do. We can accomplish what we need with the manpower we have. But we don't know until it's all up and running, >> right? And I do not think that we're going to have to pay 88,920 for an extra employee. and how he
believes that also. >> So you you feel that you can go from 300 users to 500 without the extra employee. >> Correct. And we also have a part-timer that only works Saturdays and he's making like $18 an hour.
>> So that would be also an option to just have him if we do get overwhelmed. Um and how he also feels that we don't have to do five days a week, but that's up to the mayor and have late nights we would work around. >> Any other questions?
Thank you. You're welcome. >> When you figured in your cost for pension, would you use the state's contribution also add to that? >> Well, that's what we pay. I >> No, the se there's the salary. There's a 7.5%
I believe in that area for the >> that's what we pay, >> right? >> It has our pensions here at 8%. >> How about the the matching number that comes from we have to give to the state. I believe that's close to 17%. >> But what we have, Pat, >> huh? >> I just had what we pay our contribution.
>> Yeah, but >> I did not get that from >> But the township still needs to make that contribution. >> I think there may be some others. I did not do the payroll taxes. I just left as is like as Mrs. Sparter put in. >> Yeah.
>> And this number you got from Michelle from >> I did I got it from Michelle for uh payroll for the employee. >> Oh, maybe she forgot that one then. But there I think there there's some other ones also that should be looked at. Well, that's good.
>> But I mean that total down what I got with what was figured instead of 118,000 it comes down to 73,42. >> Great numbers. >> How much? >> 73,042. >> If I could just say one item to what Pat
just was saying. So Pat is correct that we do have a yearly payment that we pay make and it's probably around like 17 18% you know so let's just round it to 20 give or take it will go up for whatever but you can take out the 7%
7.5% because that is part of their salary so if they get paid $22,000 that comes out of their $22,000 so it's not over and beyond the salary that you'd be paying them. So it would only be the portion that >> did we did you inc did you also include
the amount for social security that has to be matched >> that would be 7.65. >> Thank you >> for you. >> This is not for me. This is this would be for this employee. >> Okay. For the employee. I don't mean you. I mean I mean for the the municipal
employee. >> I was just going off of what this number came out. >> The township also has to match that payment as well. >> The 7.65. 65 >> right >> has to be included. >> Okay. >> So I I think we need to be careful when we make a decision that we include all
of these matching numbers and uh I think there are some other dis you know some other conditional uh situations we can talk about later but just on these particular numbers. >> Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> Thanks for your time David. Appreciate it. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you sir. So I guess in conclusion there's a potential for a life for this program with all the facts and figures once have them in. Who knows? Maybe we limit it to a number of people but we don't lose money if it goes
>> too big. >> Yeah. Like I said we we we have the stuff in place. Um we have the employees. So he said it doesn't matter if you got one or three. Um there uh when that compactor gets filled we take it to Schummer. be paid, you
know, pay that um that tipping fee. So, he said there was no there was no update, there was no added cost to any of the stuff to me. And like I said, um this was and when I f first discussed it with with Dell and uh and Howie, this
this was a win-win and a this is be a revenue maker for the town. So, >> has potential. Yeah, >> absolutely. Um, in a >> in a way it's kind of good we're speaking now because the winter that we just went through, I don't think a lot of people are interested in driving in
the ice and snow and maybe in the spring it'll be better. And uh it also brings out competition. >> You got you got competitors out there, private industry that are offering pretty good deals now. But >> but I think that I heard that too. But I I think that that that private that's
going there's I think one or two of them, but I think they're only in higher lakes. I don't They're >> They're all over. >> They're all over. As a matter of fact, the cost for the service that the township was willing to replicate was uh
about $10 more with this private individual uh two private individuals. And they also offered uh on a monthly basis included in that amount a bulk pickup item once a month.
I'm sorry. Yeah, once a month as well as the ability to uh include uh you know your uh recyclable. >> So >> and they gave you >> sounds can >> and they of course they give you the garbage cans.
>> Sounds great, right? But the um how long before they're they're up there with the rest of them, right? I think that's the way we we need to look at that. Right. Right. Now, right now is the sales pitch, right? I think um >> I think that's the same thing I could ask you. So, this is a sales pitch.
>> Our costs are a reflection of whatever goes on within the within the uh in in government as well as in private uh private, >> right? These these are the actual numbers right here. >> Our insurance goes up as well as the
average home loans. Our costs go up for fuel as well as the average homeless. We might get a little better deal because we buy in bulk, but you know all of these things. >> My question has always been why would you want to duplicate service on
something that can be done by industry? To me, my concern is that government sometimes, maybe more frequently than sometimes, has a way of pinching up >> because, you know, the fact that there
are union concerns or whatever >> and I just try and avoid getting ourselves into those situations. But we can have a further discussion on it with >> you know with more uh
accurate numbers as as such. >> Okay. Okay. So we'll move forward on that in the future and we may come up with a with a vote. >> I just also add just one last thing. If
that is going to be moving forward, we should just make sure that we are running concurrent a fee ordinance. um because we'll have it up and running but yet we won't have a fee. So we should if that should like I said go forward we should be make sure that we're running
ordinance adop. >> Yeah our attorney put one together uh I think for last time right? >> Yes may have to change but >> next item mayor's comments. All right. As we know, we uh as for our
agenda, um we have um thank you for with the budget and >> I know the the not going to numbers board of eds looking up numbers
coming out this week as well. Been told that's not good either. Um but talk about one of the uh items on this resolution here. One one of these agenda items resolution is this censure. But what we what we're going to see here
tonight is is politics over proping. If this governing body believes the mayor should not have a voice, should not communicate directly with residents and should not challenge the direction of this council, then to be honest with
the public about that. because that is not leadership and it is not what the people elected me to do and this this is not what people elected you to do except for probably a handful of them. I ran on transparency r on
communication and the people of this town have made it clear they want they expect both. For years this town has watched its leadership fight. That's not new. But what did change was when the voters changed the form of
government and creating a strong a stronger executive and clearer accountability to the public and and ever since that change the council and mayor fought. It it has been clear that some of this council still refused to
accept or respect that form of government. I didn't vote for that system. Some of you did. >> [snorts] >> you don't like it, let's put it up for a discussion at the next council meeting or as soon as we get past this budget on
how we can change the form of government because clearly this one doesn't seem to be working or at least not for some of the council members. So the question becomes are we going to move forward or continue repeating the same function?
>> Just speak up. >> You need to repeat that. No one could hear you in the audience. And that's pretty important statements you're saying right now. >> Thank you. >> So you need to say it loud and clear. >> Can't hear you. >> Can't hear you. Can you stand up and read it, please? >> Want to repeat this again? I'll repeat
the whole >> Yes. And maybe >> very loud. There's a lot of people here. Yeah. >> And do you want to make a copy of it and post it on the internet? >> Not on the on the town. >> No, I I mean like the town website. So I
will let me go speak louder. >> I'll start over. >> So what we are seeing here tonight is pol is politics over progress. This governing body believes the mayor should not have a voice, should not communicate
directly with residents and should not challenge the direction of this council. then we need to be honest with the public about that because that is not leadership and it is not what the people elected me to do. I ran on transparency.
I ran on communication and the people of this town have made it clear they they both they expected both expected both. For years this town has watched its leadership fight. That's not new. But what did change was when voters changed
the form of government and creating a stronger executive and clearer accountability to the public. And ever since that changed, the council and mayor has been fighting. It has been clear that some of the council still
refused to accept or respect that form of government. I did not vote for this form of government. Some of you did. You don't like it. Let's put it up for a discussion at the next meeting or as soon as we get the budget passed on how
we can change that form of government, this form of government because clearly this one doesn't seem to be working or at least not for some of the council members. So the question becomes are we going to move forward together or
continue repeating the same dysfunction? because I am not the first mayor to face this kind of opposition. The last mayor, one of the least controversial individuals I've ever known, was publicly disrespected numerous times
and and even removed off the off the dis without justification. The difference is I have a platform that is much bigger than this YouTube channel that the council has and that's what this council
is trying to do by requesting to shut it down. I have been I have made every effort to work with the new council members but it has become clear that their objective is not collaboration it is political retribution.
This central resolution is a perfect example. It was introduced by Councilman Cantino, yet it appeared on a former mayor's social media uh platform before I and even some of the council members were even aware of
it. I have asked him two times how did how is that possible? And I never received an answer. That should be a concern to everyone on who's actually doing the the thinking. So, let me be clear about something. It
is not the role of the mayor to control speech or decide which opinions are acceptable. The page in question is not an official government platform. It is a personal page
as clarified by the Supreme Court in March 2024. A public official must have the authority to speak on any social media platform uh and can only speak if there is a again there has to be a town ordinance
that that authorizes that. Please let me know if you if there is an ordinance somewhere that gives that kind of permission uh for for a mayor to speak on a social media platform. I haven't found one.
Okay. This account does not meet that standard. The content in question I did not post, like share, etc. from the beginning when I created this group.
The rules were clear. Let me quote. The rules were let me begin by saying I believe in the first amendment. So therefore, this page will be uncensored for all. I am too busy to be managing Facebook. Therefore, I will not control
or police Facebook. I will leave that to Mark Zuckerberg. If you don't know who that is, he's the owner of Facebook to do that. If you do not like something or somebody, block them. It's that simple." Unquote.
I have created that space because too often public discourse is filtered and controlled by a small group of people who clearly have a negative narrative they want to project. Our community deserves better than that. It deserves open dialogue even when it's
uncomfortable. Not every comment reflects my views. Not every post benefits me for sure. But protecting the right of a resident of the resident to speak freely on matters more that matters more than
controlling a narrative. That's leadership. Now let's talk about impact and facts. Since taking office, this administration has worked to change the perception of this town to make Vernon a place where people want to invest invest again
and we are succeeding. But since the recent actions of this council, I have personally heard from investors, business owners who are now questioning whether they want to be involved here at all. So ask yourselves, do you invest into this environment?
Recently, a resident who've been a big donor into uh to our police and animal uh null Albert, I'll put his name out there, has uh offered to fully fund a quarantine
room for animal control, something that can cure illness uh in cats in days instead of months and saves animal lives. That offer was withdrawn because of public attacks by a former
mayor, the same one who drafted this resolution by publicly accusing Mr. Albert for wanting to volunteer for self-interest. That is a loss for this town. So, if you're going to take direction
from former mayors who clearly have one objective, and that is to silence me or try and see me fail, you will fail. And I guarantee it. At this time, decisions made by this
council have increased costs, not reduced them. Forcing the CFO to manually sign hundreds of checks a month against the advice of our current CFO, former CFO, auditor, legal counsel has
sh has slowed operations and created risk. Failing to approve essential vendors forced us in an emergency meeting just to keep basic services running. This is not fiscally responsible. This is
dysfunction. I have repeatedly advised you to send me your questions in advance so we can provide clear accurate answers and help you make informed decisions. As of today, we from the last meeting, we have
not heard from anyone about any questions on the budget garbage. Instead, Councilman Cino submitted an updated resolution for the sensor stating, "I replace the word requires with implores
and urges." That is the priority of some council members. This administration is not interested in gotcha moments and games and we will not play them. So I will say this plainly. When you are ready to govern, when you're ready to
work and collaboratively respect employees, respect the professionals and put this town first, I will meet you there. If you think you can silence me by telling me to shut down my personal accounts at coun and at council
meetings, you are violating your oaths of office as well as state law and article 2 section D of our town ordinance. Let me quote our town ordinance under the mayor of office attendance and particip
participation in council meetings. The mayor may attend meetings of the council and may take part in discussions of council but shall not vote except in the case of a tie on the question of filling a vacancy in the council in which case
the mayor may cast the deciding vote. He said I can't be silenced. I don't need to be recognized. Mr. King, does the mayor need to be recognized? Okay. So, so I think this meeting was a
perfect example of h how it works. There was discussion on issues that you presented and there was conversation back and forth in that situation. No, you don't. But if there's a if there's a discussion up here, just like anyone else, I can't even I'm not supposed to
unless it's a legal issue jump in. But you can you can ask to be recognized. >> So, let me ask you let me ask you a question. Just like council min I I because I've asked you this before. Um where it says
the the council may attend. Okay. Uh may take part in discussions of the council. What discussions can I be part of? Just we we had two today. We had the budget presentation. We had solid waste. We had those presentations. There's times when
there's a question on the deis that that >> this discussion let me discussion items. >> Let me finish. when when when there's a discussion on how something works or an employee routinely under the council president who runs the meeting, he's asked for your input.
>> Yeah. Correct. But but when I'm >> I mean there's many times that you've you and and you are and it's permissive. It's not a requirement >> and I and I respect and I and I have this conversation with council president and and we've agreed to actually to work together, but the last meeting I was
shut down. I'm not recognized. I'm out of order. I mean, come on. So, so I I need the legal guidance on this if that's something that you can do. >> I I'll put a memo together. >> Yeah. Based on the law, right? Okay. And so,
let me continue. Um, like I said, if we're going to start silencing, because if we start silencing voices simply because we disagree with them, we risk losing something far more important than any single argument, we risk losing the principles this country
was founded on. I will continue to stand for open communication. I will always stand for the right of residents to speak freely regardless of what this council thinks. Go ahead. The stage is yours.
Um, President, >> thanks. Thank you very much for your comments, Mr. Mayor. >> Gonna go stay on the agenda. You get your chance to uh respond. >> Well, it's we're going to go to the public comments right now. >> Okay. >> Okay. Next up are public comments. And
uh public comments will be items on the agenda only limited to three three minutes per person. Please state your name. Do I have a motion to move to public comment? >> So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> Good evening everybody. My name is Christa Gar. I live in Vernon. Everyone has the right to free speech under the first amendment.
However, because slander or liel can cause reputation, financial, mental or personal harm, defamatory statements are the exceptions. And this is fact.
This can occur when a person makes false or damaging statements about another person. In our town, some people have done this an anonymously. In order to protect its citizens, the town council needs to stop having this
continued. We all need to also realize that a gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger. Speaking or writing in a soothing way to others is
also infinitely more productive than hateful, spiteful or perverse reactions. Our speech and [snorts] written word are much more impactful than we sometimes want to admit. I would like to end with
something we should all reflect on during this coming Easter season. Hope that there will be change is hard to come by and darkness seems to have the upper hand. Christ's resurrection on
that first Easter made it clear that in the end love conquers hate. Light defeats the darkness and hope triumphs over despair. This is why Easter means the worst thing
is never the last thing and there is always hope and I do have hope for our town. I hope you do also. >> Thank you. >> Can I have your name, please? >> Excuse me. Do you need your name? >> Can I have your name, please? >> Uh Christopher. >> Thank you.
>> You're welcome. >> Yes, sir. >> My name is Harris Solomon. I'm a former chair of the Township Historic Preservation Commission. I just like to start this uh statement by asking the board to ask the mayor does did he bring a gun or a concealed carry weapon?
>> Just address your comments to me. >> Does he have a gun or did he bring a a concealed carry weapon to this meeting tonight? >> I don't know. >> I feel uncomfortable making these statements if that might be possible that he did bring one. >> Any comment on that?
>> Well, we I mean I don't know what to tell you. Um I don't >> Is that allowed under uh township ordinance? >> Uh under I believe the state law, any place of assembly or a governmental building or like a court, you're not supposed to have a concealed um weapon
on. >> So we don't know whether or not he has a concealed carry weapon or any weapon here this evening. Is that correct? >> I I sir, I have no idea if you do. >> I do not know. >> Well, I How do I know you're telling the truth?
>> Can you find out? Can you ask? No, I can't go down and and and pat you down. >> Can you ask him? >> Yes. >> I feel uncomfortable for my safety. There is no police officer here. And if he has such a gun, I feel
>> There's anyone in the back? >> Okay. So, there is somebody here. I I didn't turn around. >> Yeah. Does the mayor have a gun? Do you >> you can't it's you have to make a statement, sir. This is where you you can ask, you know, questions of things that are on the agenda, the mayor and whatever.
>> I just feel uncomfortable. I'd feel uncomfortable for my safety if that is the case. >> Thank you. >> Uh the other statement I'd like to make is the mayor um had posted Nazi. He talked about his freedom of speech and he posted uh Nazi pictures and imagery
with my name on it. Um, I would like to know if the mayor is a supporter of Nazi ideology, if the mayor is a Nazi, because um, I find that to be particularly offensive in Vernon Township. To have anybody post on any
page that is associated with this town, uh, Nazi imagery, Adolf Hitler, with my name on it, uh, is inexcusable. And that's why I asked if, um, he brought a gun here this evening. Sir, sir, >> because Nazis always carried weapons.
>> Okay, sir. Um, this is a public comment for current agenda items only. >> Well, he he spoke about >> the his web page and that's why I brought it up here. That's >> those are those are my thoughts that um he brought up his personal Facebook page
and um as somebody of the Jewish faith, okay, he uh posted my name next to pictures of Adolf Hitler. That is inexcusable. And before I spoke here this evening, I wanted to know if he brought a gun to
this. All of you people here this evening. I hope you understand the importance of this. >> Yes. >> Okay, we do. And >> okay, thank you very much. >> What else? >> Matthew, >> come on up to the
>> Sorry, >> Matthew Conway. Highman Lakes. Um, you know, I just I just have to say when I when I saw this um I I just two words came to mind when I saw this resolution about Facebook. First one was
petty. The second one was pathetic. Um it's just I mean that that are that this town council, this body is is talking about censoring a Facebook post or a Facebook group. I think we have a lot of other things to worry about. It's a good
man right here. Gotten to know him pretty well over the last few years. And the attacks on him are are are are out of this world and undeserved in my opinion. Um, and as far as these Facebook groups go, I'll have to say is I'm really not active on Facebook at all
anymore. Um, I take a look at it. But I'll tell you, Vernon became a really nice town, like a great place with a great community the second I stopped following these pathetic Facebook groups. You know, they're toxic, they're mean, they're nasty, and they're
spiteful. And that's what I have to say about this. to to to be bringing this and and to actually be bringing this to this body here to discuss Facebook posts is is is is way below what what you guys should be doing. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Peg Dassy Glenwood. I want to begin by thanking those who have taken action to censor the mayor regarding the recent posts on Facebook page. It is a necessary step in
maintaining the dignity of our local government. It is important to clarify that no one is attempting to infringe upon anybody's first amendment right. Free speech is a cornerstone of our democracy.
But the right to speak does not mean a public official is immune immune from the consequences of their words. New Jersey Supreme Court has held that the digital presence and web pages of
public officials are subject to a higher standard of integrity and accountability than those of private citizens. When an official speaks, they do so with the weight of their office and they
represent their community. In my professional life, I was held to a rigorous standard by the state. I was licensed, required to complete ongoing continued education and tested every
four years to ensure my knowledge of the professional laws of my industry. My right to practice was contingent upon my adherence to ethical and legal codes. In
contrast, there is a sharp lacking of formal requirements for publicly elected official. Beyond the initial vote, there are few structural hurdles to ensure ongoing
confidence or ethical conduct. Because of this, the only real check and balance is the public itself. I have been chastised by many for being too observant of our representatives.
My response is that we should all be. These officials are making critical decisions regarding our town, our property, and most importantly, our children. Vigilance is not a nuisance. It is a
requirement of every resident in a free society. Every taxpayer who is not every taxpayer has not only the right but the obligation to be observant, vigilant and
vocal. When those powers fall short of the standard of their office, it is the duty of the citizens to demand better. Thank you again for the censoring. Hi, Carrie Shortway. Uh, first I have a
comment on the garbage proposal. Um, just a quick one. Something to consider is that the uh proposal tonight said that there would be no additional employees. So if I as a taxpayer don't use the garbage,
doesn't that mean that my tax money is going to pay for the garbage if the worker that I'm paying for is going to use the garb is going to be working that garbage proposal? And the other thing I want to say is I've been blocked from
Mayor Anthony Rossy's Facebook page, not the other one that you guys talking about censoring or maybe it's his whole um everything. Uh but he has a page that was called Mayor Anthony Rossy which he discusses township business on. He has
renamed it Anthony L. Rossy, which he discusses township business on, which makes it a township Facebook page, social media page. Yesterday, it was either yesterday or
the day before. Um, I'm going to read something and it's a little hard to read because it's about me. So, uh, I'm going to read it the way it is posted on the Facebook page. In case anybody has not seen it,
this is the type of thing that is on the mayor's Facebook page. And it was written by a fake profile called Mike Rothburn's. I says it once and I'll says it again.
Shortways are a cancer in this town. Sherry is a smelly old fart who reeks like sweaty ass yoga mat. I was standing next to her at healthy times once and was subjected to her stench. Harry is a conniving thief. Went out on permanent
disability as a police office because he tripped over some boxes. Collects disability pension while running marathons and also collects a pension from being a horrible history teacher. This is called double dipping and is illegal now. Liars and thieves. And
clearly they are still upset Harry lost the election. Big cryb babies. This is still on his page, the official mayor page. I support this censure
of anything that is official for the township. So I I ask you to vote in the affirmative for this. Thank you. Good evening. Heidi Lese, Verdon. >> You speak up a little bit because there's no people in the back.
>> Heidi Lee, Vernon, Jersey. >> The mics aren't working. >> There's no microphones. You have to use your voice. >> Yell. >> I'm Heidi Lee of Vernon, New Jersey. >> There you are. I am presenting to you tonight. This feels like a Facebook page. This feels
like a platform. What people put in, what people put out. Somebody along comes with this crazy idea. Somebody's got a gun and everybody on the Facebook page is, "Oh my god, who is this guy? This is a Facebook page. That's exactly
what's been going on." And it's so sad that every time somebody says something, somebody smarter, somebody funny, somebody was somebody who. It is awful. It is so awful. I am shaking inside with
frustration what I've seen in this town for the past 10 years. I've seen council members. I saw board ads. I tried to be participate in the town and I am just drained. Nothing got accomplished.
Nothing. And this is so important to have this man who I've worked with. I've talked with him. I've seen what he's done. I campaigned for him. And the people who don't like him come from behind him, kick him in his ass. And I think it's disgusting. The town should
get together, unite, and put this past it behind us. I mean, nationally, our country, Trump even says the most vile things on fa on on his page, on other and it's like, oh my god, these people
are freaking out. He's still there because he's fighting for America. America's first. And I think this mayor is fighting for Vernon and he's trying to cut and do what he can best with what he's got. He's got to follow the ordinance by what you do. And when he
does, these people come along and say, "This is an awful thing. Look what he's doing. He's taking control." I'm sorry. Right now, I feel like, what's his name? Jamie Stewart. And in Washington, DC who's can gerrymandering or whatever.
But I think I've had it. This is tonight. I'm discussed with people with humanity where they just let their anger go. They let their anger just come out. And my anger is out right now. And I'm shaking in my knees. I'm just so upset. I hope
you go seek within your heart for common sense. It's a matter of assets, liability, spending, and what we're supposed to do. So, please open your heart. Let this darkness in this place,
get it out. And look what he's done. I'm sorry, but I'm That's all I'm going to say. I'm not going to say anymore. I'm not posting on Facebook anymore because I've seen people post about me. I was called a Froot Loop, you know, and don't bother me. You can call
my heart. So anyway, I can go on all night and I'll have a drink at it while I'm at it. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Judy Miller from the McAfee says section of Verdon. Um, I'd like to circle back
to the garbage issue. Um, I live in Cedar Ridge where 99% of us do not have garages. Um, and we have a bear problem in this town. I am single. I live alone. And I don't
generate a lot of garbage. The private contractors in this in that service our town are not very friendly to the seniors. Maybe we could come up with a solution. I would be happy to pay a fee to be able
to bring my garbage to the center of Vernon instead of driving all the way to Lafayette every damn week because it's not sanitary to keep it in my house more than a week. It's not possible. Um, it's a problem that a lot
of us share as seniors and considering we don't really do much for seniors in this town. Just saying maybe we could come up with some kind of a proposal where seniors could have a pass where we could pay even I'm not saying for free
but pay for a pass. It would be cheaper than the private contractors that are ripping us off >> and we don't have to drive to Lafayette every week. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And I like to make a recommendation that maybe we do something for the seniors for the garbage if we come up with a proposal.
Paying for taxes, you know, quite quite some time. So be nice to get back to the >> Okay. Be something we can add in. Thank you. Anyone else? [clears throat] >> One more. >> Hi, Dad. Uh oh. Uh, hi everyone. My name is Marissa
Rossi. You may know me as Marissa Rossi Simeone over Facebook. Um, honestly, I don't even really know why I'm here. Um, I mean, I do obviously the there are a lot of a-holes over
Facebook, right? Um, you can't control what everybody says and nobody can in their right mind can look through each and every thread and make sure that everybody's behaving. I mean, you go through that Vernon
complaints uncensored page and it's all the same stuff. Um, over the past two years I've also been trying to figure out like is John school my dad? Like is that guy real? like does my like but it doesn't the pieces never
got put together. There were a few times that this John Skull guy went live during like the clock reveal. I'm like okay this guy doesn't even look like my dad. Um, and then there would
my dad al not to offend you, but I don't think that you are very that you are have the video tech to put something like that together. I don't even I can't even edit a video like that. So, the Nazi thing, I don't think that that was
my dad. Um, and that's that's all. Well, another thing, a lot of people say that my dad's a racist, a pedophile, a drug addict, uh a drunk, um all these different things.
That's not my dad, okay? I like I've known him for 29 years. I I can't even remember the last time he's I've seen him drink anything, let alone take hard drugs. Um my dad also just apologized to me about
a week or so ago. He's like, "I'm sorry. I've been putting this town ahead of my own family. I just had a baby a year and a half ago, and because of everything that's been going on, he You've been there. I don't want to I don't mean to make you feel bad or anything, but this town, he's been
putting his heart, soul, everything into it, and it has created tension in our family. So that's all. Thank you. >> Thank you." Anyone else? >> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My
name is John Waro. I live at 220 Canada Lane. Been a resident of Vernon for the last eight years. I've seen three administrations up to Mayor Rossy. Like each and every one of you, as the mayor, I swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States in the
state of New Jersey. With that we have the freedom of speech. We have a lot of freedoms granted to us. With that you sit up here on the dasis high above him like you are better than him controlled by your little people who pull your strings
trying to infringe on his rights. And if that's the case you all should be ashamed of yourself. You all equals here. He should be sitting up there with you, not down here being looked down upon by you all. You want to say it's because of the form
of government. Let's look at the city of Newark. Same form of government. Where does the mayor sit with his council treated as an equal? They don't infringe on the mayor's rights of speech, his postings on social media.
But yet, we take too much time away from the things that are important to this town. Catering to the less than 1% that complain about the mayor. the mayor brings an idea to the to the board, you guys table it. Now, we're going to revisit a garbage pickup that could have
been discussed two months ago. Thank God you don't get paid full-time to do this because then I'd be up here complaining about your salaries for what you're doing. You have a full-time mayor with a
part-time salary. Is that fair to him? That's all I have to say. Anyone else? >> No. >> Okay. Close the uh >> make a motion. >> Make a motion to close the uh public
comment section. >> Moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> review of the bills list. Any questions on the bills list? questioning the mayor. >> You have any public statements to make
on the bill? >> Mailing my questions. He won't answer a question, but I'll mail them. >> Andy, I'll email you. Any questions? >> You can ask them. Um, but I just want to make sure that we're we're dotting our eyes, crossing our tees. So I want to
just so this there's always this because we we're up here and we we talk about this this bills list here which it's a check registry when we do the uh the purchase orders look a lot different than what sometimes the check registry looks like. A lot of
the stuff is abbreviate abbreviated. So at times we we have we sit there where what we think but we're trying to understand what what that is and and and do that translation. Um, and I feel like sometimes we may be guessing and and I just, you know what, instead of
guessing, this is why I asked, send your questions in. If you guys want to know, we're more than happy to to explain in full details what these these checks were for. But sometimes, again, these things are a lot abbreviated and we don't have the full details on that
purchase order in front of us. Um, so like I said, you want to ask, we'll write it down. If if someone here wants to really talk, you know, talk about who's really confident that they really know what that translates, we'll we'll we'll talk about it. But like I said,
it's best that we have this stuff prior. But you could just let us know what that is right now. We'll we'll write it down and we'll get back to you. Right. I think you you >> did that the last time. >> Well, I'll just email them to you. >> Okay, that's fine, too. Thank you.
>> Question, Brad? No, only comment I had was that we noticed that there was a large expenditure elevator $12,000. Then when we sat and went over the budget, there's a possibility you might need new elevator. They're expensive and it was worth fixing the current elevator on an
emergency for 12 grand. That was the explanation, right? It is what it is. >> I think it I think it was a bo's a boiler, right? It needed like a boiler to keep stuff. Yeah. would have thought that elevator would require such a
component but >> okay next up approval of the minutes may I have a motion to approve March 2nd executive session minutes >> motion >> motion second
>> second Mr. Zudo. Roll call. >> Council member Canino. >> Yes. >> Holmes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Member Sparta. >> Yes. >> President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Carries. >> May I have a motion to approve the March 2nd regular meeting minutes? Motion.
>> Move. >> Second. >> Sparta. Second. Mr. Canino. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Yes. Council >> member. >> Yes. >> Sparta. >> Yes. significance. >> Yes. >> Motion carries.
>> May I have a motion to approve the March 9th regular meeting minutes? Motion >> moved. >> Second. >> Second. Mr. Cino. Roll call. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Zuno. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes.
>> Council President Hickkins. >> Yes. >> Next up, we have a consent agenda which includes one, two, three, and 30 resolutions. Anybody care to
have a separate discussion on any of those? And if so, identify it. Hearing none, we'll take a vote on the entire consent agenda. May I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? Moved.
>> Second. >> And a roll call. >> Member. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> President. >> Yes. >> Motion carries.
>> Council President, may I make a comment? Yes, sir. Just on the one of the items of the agenda you mentioned earlier, there is a substantial uh loss to the township based upon the
money we have to pay back to either any refund that goes to uh members of the public when they appeal their taxes. or in a case where um we have to refund taxes to these veterans. Um and I I
agree with you, these are many of these are unfounded unfounded mandates. Is it possible that we can at the future meeting put together an ordinance uh somewhat of a statement of appeal to our
distinguished uh you know our distinguished uh uh member of the legislature Mr. Mike and Ganamort. He speaks out frequently on this and does a wonderful job protecting
the interests many of the smaller communities uh and certainly Vernon being of one of size uh I think he would not that he doesn't listen to us already but he would enjoy the support of our uh our
request that this be uh continue his effort to recognize some type of funding from the state for this type of unfunded mandate. >> It's it's becoming very very expensive
for us to the extent that uh just on the issue that you were talking about, we're looking at over $1 million. And if we're looking at our current uh our current rate for for taxes, we're probably
looking at the area of around three to four tax points, if not more. So, >> right. >> Yeah, I'd support that effort. We reached out to Mr. Gammore just recently asking some advice on his town, other towns. >> Yes. >> Gathering information to formalize that
and invite him. Sure. >> Thank you very much. >> That'd be good. And Jay, we've said this before, just in case people forget, if money is collected, we're the collector. 20% goes to the town, 20% goes to the county, 60% goes to the schools.
A person says, "Hey, wait a minute. I'm going to appeal my taxes, and they win." And let's say it's $2,000 that they get back. That 100% of the 2,000 comes out of this budget. The schools get to keep their money. the county gets to keep
their money. It comes out we only get 20%, we got to pay 100% back. So whenever a pilot is an option, that's one of the reasons a pilot makes sense because we're giving all this money back that the schools get to keep and the
county keeps. So we didn't make the rules. We just live by them and you have to uh do the best you can. But that be great idea to get some new ideas. Second >> public comments. >> Yes. We're public comments. Any item on
the agenda or not, you're limited to five minutes. >> I'll make the motion open. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> I. Once again, my name is Harris Alman. I'd just like to follow up when I was talking about a gun before. We did some
quick checking and according to state law, it is against the law to bring a gun, a concealed weapon to a municipal meeting. Um, we have a police officer here. If he's carrying a concealed weapon, uh, our police department should
take him in. He should be arrested. Is he carrying a gun tonight? >> Sir, this is your chance to ask. >> Right. So I'm asking you if if if he brought a weapon this evening, he should be arrested because that is against >> it's not that we don't go back and
forth. It's not a debate. So you can make his statement. You made a statement about the law. >> My statement is to the town council and I feel uncomfortable saying this. There is no metal detector at the door. Um he refuses to answer or at least make comment in an informal way whether or
not he has a concealed carry weapon. If he is carrying a gun because of all the heat in this town, he is breaking the law and he should be arrested this evening. It is against the law in the state of New Jersey to bring a gun to a
municipal meeting. And if he brought a gun to a to this meeting this evening, he should be arrested. I feel uncomfortable making these comments. We have no metal detector here. He has already he has already made
statements uh which are anti-semitic on his website and I feel uncomfortable about that. So if he has a concealed carry weapon here this evening it's against state law and our police department should take action.
This is a very serious matter. This is perhaps the most serious matter that Vernon Township has ever encountered in a meeting before. I mean, do you understand the implications of a mayor posting Nazi pictures and imagery against a Jewish
member of this community? Do you get it? Do you understand? And then he refuses to say if he brought a a gun to the town council meeting, if he brought a gun, he should be arrested on the way out.
This has never happened. I've lived in this town for 40 years. This is a joke. There's nothing to say. I mean, you look at what's happening in Washington now. I mean, this looks like the same thing. For God's sakes, I'm just going to say one thing. If this
gentleman brought a gun to this meeting, our police department should arrest him on the way out because that is against state law. and it's your obligation as members of the town council to make sure
that the law is abided by. Thank you. Anyone else? [clears throat] He l New Jersey. Someone's making an accusation just like somebody made an accusation on
Facebook page. Therefore, you should take action, says he. This is what you need to decide. Facebook is just a as my man used to call it. It's it's a a platform for That was his
words because when I went on Facebook, I said, "No, it isn't." And now I'm realizing he was right. People can express things what they want. They hide behind the keyboard and say what they want to say. He's bringing something to your in front of you that's not true
and and it's like do something. So as idiotic as it sounds, it's the same thing that you're going to censure a guy based on accusations on hearsay. And so that's that. But anyway, my my
concern too for myself is I have one bag of garbage in my home a week. My garbage just went up to $171 for my one bag of garbage to bring in my car to Vernon, me taking it out of the car and flipping it into his container,
I would save quite a bit of money. So that to me for people who um have smaller families be of great benefit and I appreciate him bringing that up and uh I hope I prayed in beginning of 26 may
it be a year of transformation a good transformation. I still believe in that. I really believe people coming together, uniting, putting all personalities aside, all grievances aside, and I
believe uh we'll get through this by working together. We can really change Vernon for the better in unity. Thank you. There go yelling again. Sorry. I'm here to address the profoundly
misinterpretated law of the state of New Jersey regarding transparency. As you all know, I sent you an email last week about our website be not being in compliance.
In response this morning, I received an in email from the clerk. It was asserted that there is no requirement that minutes be posted to a website and that they will be posted as soon as the
office has time. With all due respect to Marcy, that interpretation expired on March 1st of this year under the new law PL202572. The municipal website [clears throat]
is no longer a digital brochure. It is the primary legal repository for the township. Section C353-2 requires a copious and free internet
archive. You cannot claim, as the clerk did, that this law saves the town money on advertising while simultaneously refusing to maintain the website that justifies those savings.
Furthermore, New Jersey Supreme Court in Kaine versus Morell defined probably probable availability as a function of time, not at the convenience of the office.
Currently on our website, the bill's lists have not been posted since December 8th. Land use board and committee meetings for many of our committees are missing entirely, not
only for now, for a couple of years. In addition, the town council minutes have not been published for all of 2026 approved minutes. We are effectively operating a dark
government while complaining while claiming to be compliant. I am asking the council and town attorney tonight if our website is our legal primary source for notice under
the 20125 act, how can it be legally compliant while missing four months of financial and legislative records when we have time is not a legal
defense. Transparency is a mandate by the state. >> Any comments, >> council president? >> Um, can I speak? >> Sure. >> Thank you. >> Um, Mr. Sassy, what I said to you was um
the open public meetings act does not require minutes to be posted on our website. >> No, not the open public meetings act, but the new law does. >> Just allow Marcy to respond. that and said we were in violation of the open public meetings act. I have the email
here. Um and what I explained to you is we're not required to um put minutes on our website and in the past anytime you've asked me for minutes. I have always sent them to you. >> The clerk's office has been rather busy
and it is very timely to post our minutes on the website and we're getting to it. We're not that far behind. We just approved three sets of minutes today. >> Yeah, but where are January and February? >> Like I said, we're behind. I didn't say we weren't. We will get them on the
website. Um PL 2025C72, which became mandatory March 1st. >> Mhm. >> States that municipalities can now post public notices on our website.
Public notices for legal notices, advertising, meetings, ordinances, bids, >> not minutes. >> Yes, I'm sorry. You're wrong. >> Read it. >> No, I'm not. Minutes doesn't have anything. >> Says most post ordinances.
>> It's this is not a debate. Allow her to answer. She didn't interrupt you. >> That are being introduced. The date I mean, I'm sorry. ordinance that have been introduced, the date of introduction and the date of the public
hearing are legal advertisements. They were normally in the New Jersey Herald. We don't have to put them in the Herald anymore. And yes, that will be saving the township a lot of money. Um, that was my email back to you. >> Correct. >> And I'm not going to argue with you, but
um I'm sorry. Sorry, I know the statutes. So, I'm I'm sorry that you're bringing it up tonight and I had to comment, but I feel that you um in your email said that we were in violation. I just want to make it very clear to everybody that we are not.
>> I am going. >> Ma'am, your five minutes is up. >> I will read what the stature says. >> Ma'am, your five minutes is up. >> Five minutes are up. You did mention other things rather than just what you just spoke to Marcy about. You mentioned land use board. mentioned MUA. That has
nothing to do with us. It has to do with the the way the >> We We took notice. You have your five minutes. You did get your say. We thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Uh Scott Castle from Glenwood. Uh just quickly, you know, I came here to hear
information about the budget. Um most of what I hear are, you know, angry people that like the mayor, hate the mayor. Um you have the mayor posting on Facebook. You have wannabe people that used to be mayor posting on Facebook. And honestly,
it's it's I'm sad. I'm upset that I even came here because it's a huge waste of time. Th this stuff is an embarrassment for the whole town. Um, we should be talking about I think one person had a good comment that we should we have really more important
matters to worry about like the budget. We spent very little amount of discussion on the budget and a bunch on, you know, who's a Nazi and who's carrying guns and just moronic stuff and then comments from the people. You know, when you're you're trying to hear
somebody talk, they're making their like they're doing now. They make all their little comments. You can't hear what's going on. I mean, I just uh I feel like our whole town is we're split into these little groups and nothing is going to get accomplished for
years and years unless this this changes. And you know, I'm just up here to rant because I really don't have any point. I don't have a solution for it. But I'm just uh yeah, I'm just kind of upset that I came here to to waste my time. So, I'm hoping
it'll change. I think uh from what I'm hearing back there, it's not going to change and uh I don't see how we can have a real uh deep budget discussion when we have all this other garbage going on. So, thanks. >> Anyone else?
One more. Uh Kirk Stevens. >> Yeah, that doesn't work. I don't have prepared remarks, but I'm just making my twice a month pilgrimage here to follow up on pilots. Um perhaps in your comments, you can just give us
an update as to, you know, what's happening, if there's any new news. Um my understanding is that the uh the Grove facility is potentially no longer 55 and above for certain units. So, I was just interested in
feedback on that if they've paid their sewer connection fee um and potentially if there's sort of a a new forecast of what that revenue could look like for the pilot. Uh given some potential rent rent
adjustments that need to take place. um understood the points that you made earlier about uh you collect the money and you have to pay it back if uh you know there's people claiming a disability etc and that pilots serve a a bit of a
bridge there. So I'm not even here to debate at this point whether it's good or it's bad or the building's good or it's bad. I'm just curious, you know, based on the latest uh information available, have those pilot financials changed and what do we think that revenue looks like based on the latest outlook?
>> Um, and then lastly, I mean, I'm also a bit frustrated coming to this meeting and it is uh we're all very busy and you want to feel like you're being productive with your time and you know, this is a this is a tricky one here. Um, I
consider myself an observer of things and of people and probably, if we're using the Facebook analogy, would consider myself more the silent majority that's sort of turned off by extremes on both sides and tends to not not say anything at all. Um, you know, this is an interesting one. I
think if instead of being called a censure, it was called something else, you know, uh, the council strongly disagrees with messages appearing on this board, then you probably wouldn't have so much uproar. But, you know, I'm I'm
sort of in the middle. I uh you know, none of us are perfect. I'm not perfect. Um you know, even with all the pilot disagreement, I've I've shaken the mayor's hand and I I've even thanked him for his service and said, "This is a thankless thing." Um I've I've tried to be balanced in in all my uh
interactions. Um, at the same time, I've seen a lot of behavior from the mayor online from his direct account, you know, without that that I would call. I mean, for instance, there's a a member of our EMT service uh who was part of the pilot discussion
and, you know, it was stated that, you know, do you think you know better? Do you don't you live in your mom's basement? you know, just nothing really that bad, you know, but just there's a lot of unnecessary bullying and and talking down to people, which I think turns
people away from participating. So, on the one hand, I do think it's important to sort of keep that behavior in check. Um, on the other hand, people are turned off by censure and, you know, that idea of it. So, how do you how do you sort of land in the middle? Um, I know in the
private sector, a lot of corporations have social media policies that govern employee behavior. Um, and as part of the hiring process, if you're if you're looking to get a job somewhere, oftentimes as part of the background check, they look into your social media. So, you know, this is new
territory, not just in public life, but in in private life as well. And I think there's just a general expectation that, you know, you conduct yourself in a in a reasonable way. So, I'm not here to virt v virtue signal or or say that someone's good or bad. Again, I'm not perfect, but
I as being someone in the middle that hears both sides, you know, we maybe don't want to censor people, but also we don't want to allow people that are supposed to be role models to bully people and participate in, you know, derogatory conversations online. I'm I'm
kind of in that middle ground. So, I just wanted to uh share my comments there. So, um I'm hoping at the end you can again speak about the pilot stuff which is the main reason I'm here. Thank you. >> Hi, my name is Christa Gary and I just
want to say that what might be a good idea is people would post their names. if they would post their names on Facebook, they wouldn't want to say the things that they're saying because they'd be afraid that they might get
into trouble. And that is a big problem because they're hiding behind that behind fictitious names and it doesn't matter who it is. It that shouldn't be allowed. But I don't know how you could take care of that. That be a problem.
I'm not sure. Maybe you knew would know how to take care of it, but I think that would be helped a lot. Anyone else? Seeing no others have a motion to close the meeting to the public. >> So move second.
>> Second. All in favor? >> I council comments. Um, Bill, can I just I want to make a comment about the MUA real quick. Is that okay? I think it's something that people would probably want to hear. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Um, so I've been working
with the devel closely with the developer on building our main street. Um, which is which hopefully will coming with some plans and with the land use bought. Um, at no time have myself or the MUAs ever thought that these
developers were going to try to get over on the MUA fees or not pay. We would, again, as mayor, I try to bridge the gap to try to help connect the dots and connect people to what that process is.
There was a miscommunication that resulted in a in a the co being being given before the MUA fees, but the reality of it was the whole time since early in November, we've been we're trying to figure out what that process
was on doing the hardship. Uh they qualify and they did qualify Thursday evening for the hardship. The developer has always said to me, "Once we know exactly if we're going to get a hardship, we'll make that payment the next day." Well, they stay true to their
word. The next day, the check was brought in. I think it was like 16,000 and change that paid the first quarter of those those connection fees. Um, so that payment was made. Just just to put that out there. Um, and then
just real quick, the second thing is about this this resolution that you approved. I did I did state that I will be filing uh ethics complaint of the finance board. Okay. The DCA on everybody who voted on it. It's a
promise I'll keep. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Council comments. Carl. So, I am um my name was mentioned a couple times. So, I'm going to clarify a
couple of things. First, um I wrote this myself completely by myself. I'm a teacher. I know how to show that I wrote it myself. I prove whether or not children wrote their work on their own all the time. You want me to prove it to you, I will.
Secondly, um the edits that I made to this document this week were not just changing a few words and that was the only thing that I've ever asked a question about. Um I added the section about the mayor's behavior at last
council meeting because it does concern me. Um I'm a teacher of social studies. I know a decent amount about our federal government. I know that the Faulner mayor council form of government is pretty similar to the federal government. It's mirrored on it. This is
a council meeting. Anytime I want to speak, I have to be recognized by the chair of the meeting. The same for anyone giving a presentation, anyone asking questions. I would have loved to respond to a couple of things earlier, but I knew if I asked, I would have to be recognized by the chair, and it would
probably cause more problems than it would solve. So, I waited until the appropriate time to speak. What's that music? Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Um, I I just the way that the mayor was behaving at the last meeting was not in
respect to Robert's rules or the fact that it's a council meeting. It's not that we don't want to hear a mayor talking. It's not that we don't want to hear what you have to say. It's that there's a time and a place to say it. There's an order that has to be maintained and there's a presiding officer of the meeting. You can't
interject like that to a point where we had to adjourn for a five-minute recess because you kept interjecting and not respecting the will of the chair. And you're saying before, you know, this council doesn't respect the authority of the mayor. Well, look at what you're doing at our meeting. This is a council
meeting and you're not respecting the order of a council meeting. That's what I added to my resolution. Secondly, about the Facebook content. I never want to discuss Facebook at a town council
meeting ever again. I am so sick of hearing about this, but it has to be addressed. Since long before I ever sat on this council, I was hearing repeatedly about what the mayor is doing on Facebook. Do you see what he's doing? Do you see what he's doing? Well, I'm
way more concerned about the fact that we're doing the budget this late. But I felt this is something that I need to address now. Um it's not that we can prove the mayor's making any posts on Facebook. It's not about what you're
saying. In the resolution that I wrote, it says by perpetuating posts in Facebook groups under the control of the mayor. Whereas the conduct described above is attributable to Mayor Anthony
Rossi and was undertaken through platforms under his control. Meaning you're the admin of the group. And what I'm concerned about is not feelings being hurt. It's that what's being posted in that group is lielist. We
could be sued because of what's being posted. It's not you said um silencing voices that disagree. It's not disagreement. You're harass. It's people's character that's being harassed in this group. And I'm not saying you're
doing it, but you're the mayor of our town. You represent something much larger than yourself. You're not just someone, you know, a a lay person running a group. You're the mayor. You represent everyone and you represent an
organization. And when you're running a group that's allowing anonymous posts that berate people's character, they're going to sue and then we're responsible. So this resolution, there's
nothing that we can make you do at the end of the day. But it says very clearly, we're not standing with what you're doing. And we It says whereas these actions expose the township to liability. That whole point was lost.
So, also something I want to address. You run a Facebook page called Anthony El Rossy and you run that page and you discuss township business on it. You posted a picture of this resolution and gave your opinion on it on that page.
People are blocked from it. That's against the law. I remember going to a training session when I was on the school board discussing board members conduct online. If you're discussing official business on a page, it's an
official page. You can't block people from it and you block people from it. I don't listen. I'm not here trying to I know the word censure sounds like we're trying to stop you from saying something. It doesn't. Censure is a
function in Robert's rules. It means we don't stand with what you're doing. I can't stop you from saying anything. But we can very clearly state that we don't stand with what you're doing because it opens us up to liability. It has nothing
to do with whether I agree with what you're saying or silencing voices the opposition. It's about the money, the fact that we could be sued. So that's my concern with this. I'm never talking about Facebook again. I
never want this being discussed at a council meeting. There's so many more important things we have to focus on than this, but I was hearing about it constantly. And once again, no one wrote it for me. I can write things on my own.
Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. promised during the week. >> Okay, Miss Holmes. >> Yeah, just a few comments. When the residents when you guys come up and speak to us and give us suggestions
or complaints, I know a lot of people have been emailing me um with suggestions and things that they would like to change. And when they're valid, we do work on it. You might not hear us up here, but we take what you say or I
do at least, I can't speak for everybody, take it serious and we work on it in our own way and try to get some of these things resolved. So, when you do come up with us, come up here. I know we're just staring at you, but I take it
serious and I try to get some resolve when I can. Sometimes I don't get cooperation and then there's nothing I can do about it. Um or keep on trying. I don't want to say nothing I can do about it, but I do work at it. Um so just to
let you know that. So, the other thing I just want to say, and it's a little funny, is and then I'm talking about it because the mayor spoke about it during his speech here, how um having our CFO
sign off on checks, co-sign checks. I got three weeks of push back for it. He had the ex Donnell, our old CFO, write letters. I got many emails from the mayor um and text messages, but it's
so funny. It's in our code. Did you know in our code it says the CFO needs to sign off on all checks? So for three weeks we argued about it. We were arguing about our own code. Just saying. So I thought that was a little funny.
And that's all I've got to say. >> Thank you. No comment. >> Okay. I have a couple comments. I just want to reinforce what uh Mr. Cino said. It was a censure has no legal authority.
It's just our opinion that righteousness and uh nastiness to just take over and stop the nastiness on all sides. I see no reason, and I've said it before, to be a mayor of a town, to be a council person, and to be posting uh on
Facebook. And I know the the mayor took off Anthony Rossi mayor and it's just Anthony El Rossi but in the background shows the Vernon Township logo that I'm looking at right now. That should be removed just because the mayor and he is the mayor be above all that. That's the
point in terms of the uh the guns and the weapons. There are towns and I'm in the security business and we've sold weapons detection to other towns. I've sold turn styles where you have to come through. Those towns have decided that
they wanted that type of security. If this town wants that type of security, it would be an RFP for the cost of it. It would be a person that would cost money to be standing there and uh scanning person for a weapon. And so, so
we have my point is we have spoken about if we want to get to that point, we can do it. there's a police officer standing outside right now. There's no extra cost to this council or this this chamber because he's in the building. If he's in here, it's a different different story.
So, it is something we heard what you had to say. You're concerned and if it's something the council wants to pursue and something that the mayor would agree with, then it's something that we could move forward with. There was another question on uh State of Grove 55 and
over and the number of people that could be less than 55. Well, according to the uh the pilot agreement, 15% of the people in that building 55 and over can be under 55. However, they're all
one-bedroom apartments with a little den. So the goal from the beginning was if in fact there's not enough 55 and over maybe they would be young professionals and uh need just need the one bedroom and enhance the uh the
number of uh people. So far, the pilot payments is next to nothing because the agreement also addressed that because they knew that whenever you have a new building like that in an area such as ours where there's a lot of promotion,
there will be uh more money paid to the town as a year goes by. And it was to give the pilot a chance to take and to take hold. So there will be quarterly payments and it's going to be calculated on the number of people that are actually living there. That was all
addressed up front in the pilot uh program. So once again, just as Mr. Castle said, it's getting old talking about the same things. We the budget was here tonight to be discussed and uh I think we got a
start on it. It's a lot of work to do and a a budget presentation will be done at the next meeting as per the uh the rules and regulations that we have to abide by and then the final vote on the budget is when Patty. So um introduction
we were shooting for for the first meeting of April that stays in compliance with state guidelines stop I'm sorry to introduce the first regular meeting by the first regular meeting after March 31st which would be your April 1 meeting
>> April first meeting >> April you're sorry >> first meeting in April >> April sorry yes which would be April 13th >> okay >> so we have three weeks um to hopefully um get some questions answered and so
when we introduce where council is comfortable what where the numbers lie and that we can just move on with our process >> bill I think it was Mr. cantina or Miss asked about a work session before that. Set that date now.
>> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> Yeah, we can >> know that because we can we can we put our legal notices on our website now. I don't have to have the time constraints for the new 48.
>> So, it's 48 hour notice. >> We set that date. >> We can I'm going to leave it up to four of you because I'll join remotely. I'll be out of town for the next month. So for you, if you decide on a date right now, let's let's do it. And I'll be I'll
be online. >> I have my calendar with me. But are you thinking night? Well, it have to be. We all work, >> right? >> So it have to be in the evening. Um, >> I'm just going to suggest that if >> Saturday
say again going to suggest if you have um questions in about items that you would like me to that you have ahead of time to let me know again I can then maybe have you know answer so we're not kind of >> um >> going back and forth >> going back and forth. Yeah. And just kind of trying to save to keep the the
momentum going. >> Yeah. For example, we were handed a census that came in today that Miss Holmes had requested previously and uh I think you're going to see a request on her part to define a lot more different
uh information than just what we've been given. Is that correct? >> I would May I speak, >> Mr. Higgins? So, I had asked for any per our form of government any one council person can ask for a report. I asked for
a census. No one here knows how many employees we even have. So I asked for a census and I got a whole bunch of stuff back that did not help me. And then they said that's all you're going to get.
So never heard. And you can't do the budget without this. You can't do salary ranges. I don't know how you operated without this. This is very important. >> Yeah. Salary ranges, I guess, fall under salary or union contracts.
>> Say again. >> Salary ranges fall in your >> Oh, I understand that. I understand that. >> But we do need this. We need to know who's in the department. Are they full-time, part-time? Um, do I see the high? I do see hired
date. Thank you. I see salary. I don't know how many hours they work. Most employees here work 35 hours, but some work part-time. I would like to know that. This is not I sent you guys a little
uh template of what I would like on it. I mean, I don't know. Did you sudden I just heard you suddenly found it after I put in a for a resolution to be put on the agenda. You suddenly found something. the insurance the insurance company reached out to us and they had a
copy from last year and they did an update >> and when was it updated last because there's I don't see any date of when it was >> it was updated on Friday >> okay so I would like this let me review this we need to know the department
>> this is all the police and these are >> that was all the information that we had on there that they had >> do know who works here so maybe you could fill in what department and if they're full-time or part-time Hi. Well, could you do that? >> Yes.
>> I mean, I'm not asking for something unreasonable. Just who works here and what do they do and how much money they make and it's very important to do the budget >> and again I don't know how it was done without having these details. >> The the salaries are on there.
>> Yes, they are on there. So you know what you know what the So you know what each employee is making. >> You're right. But I want to know the department they work in and are they full-time or part-time. When we're looking at the budget, I don't know who's in that budget line. So when I
want to find out if I look at say the rec director, right? I don't know how I don't know who the recctor is or how much they make because I don't have on there what department they're in. You only given me
a fraction of the information. So I would like this and very timely please very timely because we're working on the budget now. >> Petty, it's in your it's in your break. You have it because when you go by department, for example, finance
department, you know what the cost is, you know how many people. This is just a lump sum of all those people. >> Yeah. I I have something else that I work off of that's not doesn't have this all this information on it. >> Well, could you walk around and ask
people what they do? I mean, it's just I'm not saying >> I'm not saying I can't what department they're in. That's all. of working part-time. Who's working full-time? >> Is salary. >> If you're salaried, you're full-time.
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, >> it says hourly rate. So, if it has an hourly rate, that's a part-time. >> Part time. >> If they have a salary, that's a full-time. >> And I think we have like seven. >> And it was broken down to two different lists. One list had the municipality and
the DPW workers. The other list was the police department dispatchers and the animal control, >> right? >> Say police animal control believe. >> So if they are hourly, do I automatic think they work 20 hours? If full-time
is 35 hours, is it your part time is >> less than 35 hours is part-time? I think it's how many 28 >> 28 >> 28 hours. >> So 20 hours is part-time. 28 up to 28 hours is part-time.
>> So, is it safe to assume that if you're part-time, part-time individuals don't collect any benefits? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And they don't have a salary part >> and they >> and every part- timerr works they don't
work the same amount of hours, right? Like you can get somebody down in the senior center that could be working 12 hours and somebody up here in one of the offices could be working 25 hours. >> And there's no there's no contribution by the township to a pension fund with
the part- timerrs. >> Part-timers contribute into what's called DCP and there is a 3% uh employee ma employer match. >> Okay. So part- timerrs do get a quote pension, >> right?
>> Which is important information. According to this, counting full-time, part-time, we have 117 employees in the township. That was a number that I didn't know before I just saw this. So more defined information is really what we're looking for.
>> Speaking of defined information, could we set that date? >> Yes. >> Keep trying. possible to do a f Saturday Saturday. >> I can do a Saturday. >> I could do a Saturday. That would be fine. >> Uh this Saturday I'm good. Next Saturday
I'm not which we next Saturday wouldn't be good anyway cuz she the sixes are >> right before this Saturday I'm fine. >> Mhm. >> Saturday. >> You guys talking Saturdays? >> What time?
>> What Saturday are we talking about? >> Uh the Saturday the 28th. I'm I'm not >> all right. >> Sorry. >> It's fine. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Uh what nights are is the chamber in use? >> I would have to go and check in my
office. >> Okay. Well, we know Monday nights are basically free. >> Well, I mean that those are our meeting dates normally. I believe um land use is usually Wednesday and MUA is Thursdays,
but I don't know where >> about the 30th. >> Yeah, it's that's what I was going to suggest. 30th. Okay. For everybody, >> the 30th. Let me double check. That's a >> Monday night from tonight. >> That should be fine.
>> Fine. >> Monday nights are always >> What dates are you guys looking at? >> The 30th. >> 30th. >> Monday the 30th. Make it at six to get you guys people. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> Not for you. >> It might be. >> Okay. Seven.
>> We'll plan on six. If there's a problem, I'll let you know. >> Okay. >> So, you're saying six o'clock? >> We'll advertise it for six. >> That work? >> March 30th. >> March 30th at 6. >> March 30th at 6.
>> You think we should plan a second date? six. >> Anybody? >> I won't be here in March 3. >> Bunny, anybody >> second date? >> Well, we have the introduction. >> Oh, we've cancelled it. >> The What day is that? >> We have the introduction on the 6th, the
following Monday. Anyway, >> I think the 13th. >> The second. Yeah, >> second and fourth. Second. >> Yeah, we changed the dates of the April meeting. >> That's right. So, we're the 13th and 20th, right, for our April meetings.
>> If we need a second meeting, we could >> Yeah, we could April 6th. >> April 6th potential. >> Jeez. >> Well, we can. Okay. >> Can we just meet the 30th and then decide on the 30th if we need one on the 6th
>> because we have time >> we have enough time to advertise that way. All right. >> Mhm. >> And then with the April meetings are the 13th and the 20th. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, did you decide on the 6th? >> No, we're going to decide at the end of
the 30th if we need a >> So, it's the 30th at 6 o'clock. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> You don't know the official work schedule for >> youcept that. >> Yeah. >> Yes. You got the 30th and then the
second is the 6th. >> We're going to decide if we need that one on the 30th. >> Okay. >> No, on the 6th. You're going to decide. >> We're going to decide on the 30th if we need on the >> Okay. 30th and the 6th. Maybe on the 6th. >> Okay.
>> Have a motion to adjurnn. >> Moved. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> So, what are we going to do? They don't come down for this. >> Yeah, we may send him an email. >> Have a good night.