##VIDEO ID:FNwm3hYNvPE## I brought all this other minutes the resolution for the municipal contract how many times resolution just that's all we get no time pretty quick cont something I don't know what their time schedule was but it was available the weekend and it's and there is a memo of understanding so that you're not looking at the whole contract you're just looking at those areas that are changed well I mean cont like it's not going to I open attachments on here is there any reason no I don't don't no I'm just saying common sense to me give us some time see we can't you know I don't see think the stands out as a problem I don't want them to have any vacation days whatever you get they get you get none they're that's it already went off oh yeah how much time oh we don't [Music] call the meeting to order will the clerk please read the meeting statement adate notice of this regular meeting was provided to the public and the Press on January 17th 2024 and was posted at the municipal building in accordance with the open public meetings act nj10 4-7 thank you you all please join with me and moving the plan I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all roll call please council member brary here council member D benetto present council member Higgins here council member Sparta present council president rudo here this evening we have a presentation recently the council passed a uh an ordinance is okay I Mar you know he had a family emergency he does sincerely apologize for and we'll put him on the the next okay so the planet networks will go on the next agenda okay um item number six I think about a few meetings back the discussion was uh entered into uh concerning some of the signs that were seen about around town that were in effect not in accordance with our existing sign ordinance uh we talked about seeing if we could have some of these reviewed for modification or reaffirmation and uh our vice president was willing to undertake that and uh perhaps you can Oh I thought we I thought this was a discussion with all of us though oh yeah it is okay um well I I don't unfortunately I want we were um when we first discussed it we were going to dis um meet with um our economic development committee chairman who has been unavailable to get his feedback so I don't know mayor have you touched base with Mr Knight that you should maybe so I've asked um how you come in just just give a little input on okay perfect with the EAC um committee um just to share us with you know some okay is that okay true I did you guys will get a copy of the the pictures yeah the pictures Irene was still did Tina did uh I don't know if IR supposed to no never oh well um all right so I I hand it off to Irene so I have to look and see if she's um okay well in the meantime I yeah we just discuss it and then I'll pass that around for you guys to to take a look at just some ideas and but I'll let Heidi explain little good evening everyone I'm Heidi L representing the economic development advisory committee to encourage promote and assist business growth and Vernon and I'm happy to be here to present some of our findings and discussions we had to the council first an update about Peter KN uh as many know he has been in the hospital and rehab back and forth for a couple of months uh with two additional surgeries I hope we all say a prayer for his continuing recovery so in the meantime the mayor asked me to do this presentation I hope to bring Clarity and a need to address to address many concerns of the burn in businesses and Township interest in improving the signage situ situation secondly I'd like to say that signs give a community character I found that uh while I was doing research and I said boy is that powerful signs give the community character and thought it was important to keep in mind I drove around Vernon a few times with an open mind as a as a newcomer exploring Vernon and as a driver of a vehicle there are some signs that need improve Improvement for displaying businesses of which I'll get into I saw several small signs stapled to polls uh for buying houses or promoting professional work like masonary work and tree surface Etc which are scattered in certain areas they can be an isore if more people do the same which will pop up more and more as a need for work is is is is is escalating perhaps have a certain place somewhere in town where they can promote their services for locals to find newspapers aren't like they used to be where advertising can benefit people since they become less and less reliable with local news as for vehicle signs the no standing no parking in many areas aren't need aren't needed or just needs adjustments cuz they're crooked or old I highly recommend that you drive around look purposefully at every sign and determine the same findings I recently uh read in the advertiser newspaper Sussex County has inspected more than 14,000 signs on County Roads where more than 300 signs have been replaced and about 250 more will be replaced by October according to Chris Carney deputy director of the board for business signs I found by changing the sign's location K have better visual effects such as the one sign with multiple businesses that are um off 94 and that uh the one particular that's double-sided on Church Street and 94 which there are a couple of pictures of and it's it was updated decades ago by the boy Club no nobody seems to own the sign I talked to some businesses and you guys know which one that is right yeah yeah right by the Dunkin Donuts side in front of the floors is it this one yeah that one there yep I know yeah and some businesses have closed since there's the signs are some businesses that are still there but when you drive by um coming from 9 before from the light um from Burger King uh you can see it but it's just um if you're just going by it just says okay I know there's a few businesses there but nothing looks identi um definitive and then when you come from the other direction going towards Burger King you don't see the sign at all that and I have a picture of that as well I was I parked in the parking lot of dunk uh Dunkin Donuts and it's just facing the tree and nobody sees it except you're if you're in the parking lot so um so by placing a better sign across the maybe placing the sign across from Church Street at the corner where the churches the drivers will be able to see from both directions and know there are more businesses on Church Street to explore this would help the businesses that are not visible from 94 I didn't even know there were uh shops on Omega Drive I and I've been here 10 years and the shops around the municipal building area are in need to attract uh the high volume traffic from 94 and uh and I've discussed this with a few business owners one shop used to uh use the feather Flags the flag front banners to help customers find their shop but he was told to take them down and he was upset about it because nobody knows that he's there or can't find him or and that whole area has so much potential as well and as for a mega drive a little sign should Point drivers to explore the shops that are located there they need to to attract tourists to visit the offerings these shops have array finding or directional signs are called could draw more customers to their stores shops restaurant on burning crossing road to 517 with the scenic byway Loop turn um the sign ordinance um is 12 pages long and we at the at the in the committee we just like it would take hours to understand and uh and it's complicated so a simpler method of to understand can be made uh by stating what signs shouldn't be allowed and and stating the town's objective for the perspective and present business owners by notification this would lead lead them to avoid lighted digital displays neon city lights flashing and having gimmicks to promote business I believe this could be done on a one-page recommen recommendation where Vernon could strive having that country field matching the natural beauty of Mother Nature has in our town which is a great asset which helps tourism which is another greatest asset signs attract but need to be on what the town wants aesthetically and communicate to the locals to be on the same agenda Veron should be a business friendly promoting new businesses and signs are necessary being we have one large Road passing through Vernon with little roads without any indication of other business locations tourists use quite a bit of GPS when searching for a specific place but for those who are just driving by and or exploring potential shopping dining etc those Charming signs will detract more business for the owners of the shops in the past brochures displayed choices with local advertisers through hotels to promote but that isn't the case anymore I don't know why but that that's what it is and I like them but I'm oldfashioned um and my personal experience having been in business over 25 years drawing customers seem to be a major concern here in Veron as we discovered it in in our committee I understand the local businesses need help from the town more so than putting hardship restrictions on how to attract customers so in my opinion being on both sides the town needs to communicate to businesses for the common objective Ives about what type of signs to use for example charm and encourage businesses to do the same this should be the objective The Motto the Seal of success to move forward as for flag banners or feather feather banners they should be used not to overwhelm the driver with too much information as they drive by because less is more and the driver has limited sight limited time in isay with the number of large attractions in Vernon Vernon which created a tourist destination we have to find a way to lead them to shop dine and enjoy the welcome experience of their visit which is to have attractive signs when I first came to Vernon to one of the attractions from New York decades ago from one of their advertisements we couldn't find anything on the main road and headed towards Warwick to find shopping and dining but we noted Vernon has the beauty of Nature and again this is the greatest asset when driving through and I'll finish by saying local farmers are in need to bring business to their location as well a little guide sign can be helpful to them to their offerings I've seen this in Britney France where the roads are small but they always had little signs with a little arrow to direct a driver for a visit of a special place so um also um there was a um a vote on um the the FL the flags FL the feather Flags um and so I ran a poll just to see about the feather Flags again you know um just I campaigned on using social media as a tool to help you know uh bring some things to the surface obviously you know social media doesn't control how how we govern but just to give us some idea where where the public uh may see things and that poll you know again was the uh in question of of the feather flag as you know Vernon Township uh it's not permitted uh but yet we see them all the time trying to pop up trying to track business um and as a former business owner I I understand the struggles it you know when you especially when you put your your life your life savings into a business you would do anything to try to attract you know customers um so that poll uh came at 187 people voted yes and only 20 something said no to 24 votes said no to feather Flags um again it Facebook and social media doesn't govern us but it's just a tool just just out there to to see that but I I do like some of the the signage things uh that you have here I think a lot of the stuff looks looks very good and I know there's a lot more I think we may be missing a picture or two um but it's it's a good way that maybe you know because of some of the things and how we want to we want our town to look I think there's there's very tasteful ways of doing it that we can we can put these uh again we come up with a design that we can do you know where our businesses are located not can't obviously have it you know on every corner but at least for the majority we can show some kind of Direction in a nice way but like I said like the one on by Duncan Doan it's is kind of yeah it it is it is what it is right so we'll we'll have to review it and I think uh if we come up with some nice signage uh I think that's a a great way to again uh point the direction for for where our businesses are located and um it kind of it helps everybody I guess right um I do want to just make note that I did speak with our zoning officer uh Alison Rock so she's going to come in in in October we we'll figure on that date because I we wanted to get her input cuz she is you know the boots on the ground right she's the one who's going to these uh to these businesses and you know given violations and so I know my experience with talking with business owners what they want um but we also it would be nice to hear uh from our zoning officer as to what her experience is as well um so again I I just you know just we want to get as much feedback as possible um because again we we we're trying we we we must be business friendly I mean we can't afford not to be um but we also have you know uh an appearance that we want to we want to have too so it's it it definitely is a balance that hopefully we can we can all you know come to some kind of understanding and agreement and uh I I thank you for the work that that you you and and the rest of the team put in a lot of businesses are hurting yeah so they become desperate and they thought by trying to attract putting those up I mean if business was thriving they wouldn't be using those feather banners so they're just trying to get more customers and and um so one particular was frustrated because he had to take them down and they've been there quite a while apparently but um I just feel for them because it's like it it seems like there's a lot of positivity in Vernon and especially with the apartments going up that area has so much potential that somehow some way you're still going to have to get people from the drivers in '94 to come make a U-turn or come make a turn here and explore because when we F like I said when I first when we first came here we just went to the um to the attract the attraction and then drove on 94 and look and looking and they said well they have this nothing that made us want to stay so we continued out of Vernon and we wound up uh in Warick so that was my that's decades ago and so as a tourist at that time that I've noted that but I never thought I'd be living in Vernon but we we did note at that time it's a beautiful town the mountains The Greenery um so it that's our greatest asset and if we keep in tune I took the pictures from uh the internet of signs that um that are for sale or you can order and there's one that has like an Appalachian feel to it I thought that was quite interesting um unfortunately I couldn't get to Mark which is which so are there I just have a quick question about the sign so are the businesses impacted willing to work together you know if there was if if they were able to if the ordinance allowed for this type of sign you know at the corner like down this road is businesses a b and c MH um are they you know they would I mean we're not going to provide signs that this is their responsibility or they're willing to pull together to provide this cuz that's really yeah that's why I think the question right I I think if um being we're going through a transition and because money's tight for everybody um somehow aren't cheap yeah right but some of them aren't that expensive either if you can really get creative and um but maybe working with the town um well the town wouldn't provide signs for business businesses though right so we would write an you know we would approve an ordinance allowing certain sizes certain locations certain time frames certain types of this is exactly what's been done with yeah construction but we don't provide signs M I mean if you want to look at some of the signs you can take a look at some of the signs in town where the developers the people who own the property have made the adjustments mhm um the um I mean I I have to find uh that find a way let me finish but before I say that was some a member of the public this meeting may not be on Zoom apparently it's not on Zoom it it keeps disconnecting and it keeps disconnecting because of a Electronics problem and we've had the it individual here almost all day trying to correct the problem and uh yeah we're not able to connect so that's that's the reason why let me just turn this off there's another picture sorry but I think what needs to be done is you can't expect the town to tell you what signs uh you may have or may not have and allow another business to say well you know I was told that I can have this but uh and now another business says that I can't because I was told that I can't I I think one of the things that I'm going to point out maybe the mayor will agree maybe it will not to me that that poll is is rather immaterial because the number of businesses in town the people involved could answer positive to that could float that to the extent where it it would be more than the number of people who try who don't agree with it simply because it's not within the town code the town code I'm glad you picked it up does show an Appalachian look and that's what they've tried to look at but you you mentioned the feather flags and the reason this comes up because I distinctly remember when we were talking about this when we were developing the ordinance the ordinance that you had strip malls where a number of businesses have um you know along a strip area if you allow one of those businesses to put up you know eat my hamburgers and another one to say I like my you know my uh my my Deli or something like that and you have five or six businesses in that area in that connected the hardware store is a perfect example that's that's just had the grand opening if you were to put uh signs along the front of the opening of that particular business you know my major concern there and I think maybe some of the other Council people would be here's a problem because you can't get in or out without risking you know getting into an accident and that's right now without those without those flags you have the hole in between you have two-way coming traffic you have some Shrubbery that really needs to be cut it's a difficult parking lot it's a difficult parking lot and that's probably the not the only one uh coming in on some of the other uh places in town that have that the same situation when you come out of the Acme parking lot when you look at those signs they're more standardized now I agree if you look at some of the like the post office sign or maybe the other ones some are not bigger some are smaller I think it's not the Township's responsibility to tell the developer uh that you know we're going to give you money to to do this you know other it's just not our not our business but I think what the developer can do is standardize those looks and that's between the developer and the uh the business owner and the business owner if he says you know how come you gave the post office a big sign and I'm only getting a little sign yeah I'm not I don't think the township should get involved with it no I I agree with you um council president and I I think I mean perhaps designating an area for a multip designating a an area that would allow for a multiple sign structure at the end of a street corner so if if that was a a possibility again who owns the land right are is it an obstruction there's a lot of things that come into play there um but if that was a direction that was important to business owners and you have several business owners down Church Street as an example and we'd like to have a nice you know sign and an Appalachian style drawing attention and then in our ordinance we designate you know this corner several Corners where that's allowed and then those business owners need to follow the Style Guidelines and the ordinance and as far as visibility and all those things I I don't see a problem you know maybe designating certain areas as long as there was land and you know we're able to do it but as far as you know you can't say oh let's just build a sign for these five businesses cuz then the town is in the business of promoting certain businesses over others and that's and spending funds um but but designating an opportunity for a business owner then to take charge and work together for that type of cuz I see the benefit of these for sure and they they even look cute you know you're driving down the road and it's like oh look you know there's several you know and and it might cause someone to go down the road and explore which I think is a great idea um but I think the the limit on what the council would do is perhaps designate areas where those signs would possibly be placed and then the business owners would then go within the framework of the ordinance size you know somebody else to take ownership of that sign somebody has to maintain exactly so they have to own it yeah those business owners need to own it and then if it's in disrepair they're responsible for the upkeep you're going to have one business own oh no he was supposed to take care of them pointing fingers at each other yeah so it's it's it's um it would be yeah it would require a level of cooperation between multiple business owners and then if one goes out of business than the other you know so it's it it's it's um I see the benefit of it but it's not a an easy process as for some of the pictures yeah here this is this this is a this is a sign that was put there obviously by the business owner to get somebody to turn in that's what I wanted to bring and they can easily pick it up and put it back to me this is an invitation to an accident well I wanted to bring that up because um you have also the hardware store down there MH so again when tourists go by and there's no sign there they wouldn't even know there's a brewery I know again but that property is owned by somebody else right that actually that property is for sale but like in in Warwick they have on a post saying more businesses or more shops and that might be done by their chamber of commer I don't know who man we may own right we probably own a section of of that yeah there's probably an easement and if and if the town but the easements are in in the site triangles so you you can't put something in the site triangle oh yeah that's true um that's different than being on the pole but that could have been done by the Chamber of Commerce you don't know who owns that before we go ahead and and try and not reinvent the wheel but say we want to add this we want to add that we need to be able to say that we've tried to to to carry through on is a uh an an appalachi look with skiing and and uh uh activities you know activity centered uh uh places as businesses at where people would be willing to to promote to business to put something in where you're going to put these feather signs uh all along the strip I I see it as a problem and I don't see that fitting within the scope of what the township has decreed previously now that's not to say these things can't be Revisited and in particular areas as Miss bueri was was mentioning that can adjustments can be made but then we run the risk of how come soand so can do it and I can't why is their money and so forth and so on you know well it could be about visibility you know one parking lot might have um a clear area where a feather sign could be put and it doesn't cause visibility issues and then you have the the H&H strip mall that Pat was talking about where even with out any signage that that parking lot is is difficult I have a question mayor and I don't know if if maybe the zoning officer will be able to answer that um are there a lot of denials in sign applications you know is there a a is there a trend you know a lot of businesses are asking for this and and maybe she can speak to that I don't think that's what's happening I and I'm yeah so maybe I'm ask think what I think it's a shoot first and ask questions later yeah and I'm not saying it's not but I'm I'm just curious if there is a trend and if she could you don't have to answer that now but I'm just putting it out there maybe she could come prepared to talk about that um and I know one of the other questions I think we had we were talking about um was providing some kind of uh clear documentation for when new businesses well I that was a great example I think there was a packet don't we have a packet that goes out to new businesses that you guys um I don't think so created it's just 12 pages of no not the sign ordinance but I thought a new business I remember a presentation about a year or a year and a half ago um from the economic development committee with a a packet of information that was supposed to go out to businesses this would be a perfect example mayor and I were discussing this when we're talking about the agenda of developing some type of a brochure of FAQs for coming coming in and asking yeah but we want to simplify right there may be there may be some something that's probably long and and and probably maybe overly detailed but I think maybe uh something that we can just really just kind of narrow down some of the basic well if you have something then you can just pull out the key points from it yeah and I think so and I think there was one created is maybe maybe task our our business coordinator Mindy with with that task to to maybe put down some kind of Y but that we could Right But please understand that in most of these signs in most of these towns a good number of the sheets that are used for in the ordinances are for definition yeah so that we we talking about you know and then as far as where they are or where they shouldn't be you that's a that's a different story uh but you know in terms of the uh that but like for example one of the questions that I brought up the opening of the hardware store I understand people you have a great deal of you know uh money invested and certainly it's nice to see Ace Hardware come into the community it's a well-known brand it's a trusted brand but when you look at that to me it kind of overpowered everything and the other members of that strip who were in D business some private owners some you know had some uh uh actually that's really the only one I can think of that has any type of corporate identification um you know they begin to wonder why can't I do it and when you see that balloon when you see the banners when you see the uh the feather Flags you know all of those things um for a grand opening and they're looking some of these people were looking at 90 days MH well it's kind of is more than you really should have or would want to have but I could also understand that 30 days is you know or weekend is not really long enough because I want to have people know that we've made this change or this is my business so I I think there's a way of identifying these types of uh questions and coming to some type of uh of a compromise on it that becomes part of our ordinance maybe it's instead of 30 days let it be 60 days that way you'll have because I think most people realize that you're looking at weekends and with 30 days you get four with 60 days you get you know uh eight so that might be a little bit better than than uh what we're talking about yeah he did you say that there's no like pamphlet of what businesses are in town at the local hotels there's nothing a brochure like yeah of like local businesses at the hotels the one gentlemen um I think his name is Devin from the Mountain Creek I don't oh Evan yeah I know that's not about signs but I mean it would help they say GPS uh people use GPS nowadays yeah no I know but it'd be nice if there was but I know I know when I I go to hotels like I always look for those brochure things to see what you know what's around yeah anyway it doesn't have to do with signs but it would alleviate but I think with um I think what our our our um we didn't really come to a complete conclusion but what we did talk about is um upgrading um especially the one on Church in '94 and being that it's been there for decades so if maybe the Chamber of Commerce can contact the business and say come up with a way to improve it and work with the town together and okay well maybe across the street might be better double-sided and attractive or even there's there's posts the walk in the walks well I mean if we need to adjust an ordinance but again put those like like they do in Warwick they have several that's several shops or at least maybe just in town center we we we come up with a design and then figure out how we we can and then the businesses that would to you know maintenance purchasing if that is you know the town is not is not fin Al responsible and then there's a process if a business was out of you know close a shop how is that handled cuz you don't yeah so there you know that we need to think a little further down the road right we need to think about different um scenarios that could happen with those businesses I think it's a good idea if they but it's really on them to to work together and to get that to happen and then if it's a safe you know it's a safe place the the land is available to place the sign then I think you know it's government's job to make it you know to make um an opportunity for a business to succeed and then we could you know adjust an ordinance if and allow that but the the businesses need to it's kind of I think it's kind you know what I'm saying like it's really and and because if we could spend time and we could have our attorney draft something and then the businesses never get together and do it right so I don't want to do that either and waste I don't want to say waste time I don't want to sound rude but spend resources and time on our end if those five businesses on that sign say well no what what's it going to cost I don't have $1,000 you know and I'm just throwing numbers out there so if if that's truly a desire from businesses in our town and I'm and I think those signs are a good idea and they're they can come up with a plan to work together and have a design idea then we can use our resources here Township really resources tax dollars and say okay you know ask attorney to to draft something make changes and then and then go forward well I think it's like kind of like the Hometown Heroes project right so um you know what we we provide um you know we we we hang the polls right but someone members are purchasing the are purchasing the B and this is the same thing like we can purchase you know say like we come up you know come up with a design we set the we set the poll and then businesses will have to provide you know their placers EX and we we'll have that directed to to our website where they can they'll have to order it and there's only so many businesses so if you know if you got uh John Doe's you know pizza shop uh John Doe leaves and you know mariio comes in there obviously well and then you have to have the ORD required to join that sign because then you can't have blanks right you only got one person that because if you have businesses changed over and only one guy on there some of those signs especially the yeah one it looks like it's done by rope yeah so I just don't know if that's big enough for people driving by you know it would have to be cuz like but unfortunately when it's too big then it's a danger exactly yeah so there's a balance but I I appreciate that that idea Heidi I think it's you know an interesting idea um and if there's enough interest in you know the businesses are interested in it then I think it's but unfortunately um it's a church 94 because it's so old it's like the Billboards they've been there before all this now if if Billboards are privately owned yeah but aren't they on the roads of the County as well they're on private property billboard are on private property they seem so close to the road so what was done way back then anything went so this is what happened with Church Street 9 anything went so now it to to correct it that's where we need everybody's attention we have a lot of Development coming in right so we have the 55 unit building and I know they want to build some other buildings to so I think there's going to be a lot of foot traffic so this will this will help in that too so we can plan working with the the chamber maybe beautification committee or yeah and a developer and of course not for free but at least help because um some of the cost wasn't that bad MH you know and uh but even as simple as just putting it on the pole where it says walk don't walk just saying more shops this way like Warwick does yeah that's what they did they just said you know this way for more shops which is okay let's go check it out so that's that's that's about it but thank you honey thank you very much we're moving along thank you thank for thank and I feel everybody's energy in town because everybody's excited and with new business coming in hopefully because there's a lot of empty buildings around this area and I think with signs that's going to even be more positive for them to rent the space so cuz that would be a concern for me like how do you get them to come yeah thank you thank you you're welcome any other comments questions if you'll notice that um you spent any time looking at the existing ordinance there are some areas that do have some questionable uh ways of I guess of interpreting them well one of them of course may have brought to our attention is the roof signs uh whether or not there was an existing uh way of supporting a sign previous to being taken over where the name may have to be changed um we've talked about the grand opening and when I and these feather signs provided if there's a move to to allow them in certain areas I think this becomes more of a not so much of a council situation but an appeal to the council from the businessmen from people who want to come and they want to they they they need to know that there's a way of having their concerns addressed and I think perhaps the first person or the first place they should go rather than to the council should be to the zoning zoning the L use board because these are the places that enforce the existing uh Township ordinances and resolutions and if in fact uh these uh ordinance and res resolutions seem to be being challenged or questioned then maybe there is an opportunity or a place where a time where you know there might be a uh a case where they should be revised or a case for revision or case for addition or modification but I think that needs to come from the land you Spore because that's where I believe they're they're bound it was bound for because that's who we handled this for when the addition when the existing ordinance was developed just to bring it to the council uh we're not familiar individually or I don't think as a body was unless we know what's going on by virtual just traveling around but we're not we don't see every area in town and uh we don't see what's going on in other towns in comparison in terms of uh changes in advertising and uh what is being shown uh I think it's their opportunity to work with the appropriate bodies and the uh either the developers or the landowners and come up with something like this moving on com mayor's comments I don't have much to add since last week I just want to put in um put to the record uh two applicants for the historical preservation commission uh that's lamb Clancy and William Ricky I'm sorry I can't hear you I could hear you I want to add um submit two applicants to the historical preservation commission and that's Liam Clancy and William Ricky Jr uh they'll be joining the historical preservation commission so and uh that that's one my comments thank you may have a motion to open the floor for public comments I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs vuer there a second second by Mrs Sparta all in favor signify by saying i i i opposed motion carries please note that the uh this portion of the meeting is donated to comments on agenda items only and is list and is limited to 3 minutes per person anybody wishes to come forward and make any comments on any item on the agenda please do so seeing no one coming forward may I have a motion to close the floor to the public mov second by Mr Sparta seconded by Mrs bueri all in favor I signify by saying I I motion carries closed motion Carri um all members have received copies of the bills list if you'd like to mention if there's any comments or questions on any of these I had a question on 62533 it's not about the money just a procedural there's a payment of 11,250 to the Vernon Police Athletic League who runs recreation in our town the pal or the recreation committee runs the p is different from the recreation committee right so the recreation runs you know all the parks recreation um all our activities but the p l is separate from that right who run they have their own um events and activities that they do down there so if a if a youngster wanted to play soccer another one to play baseball that's under the pal or could be under the rec it could be under either could P has like their own like teams they could the pal could host a team but then also you have your you know your baseball teams your um football teams all of that goes to the community so if a little league reports to the rec committee or they report to P the wck it would be wreck but on the other end the pal also can have their own team so they would if they have a their own like uh they're sponsoring put it that way if they're sponsoring their own team right um they would do you know they would they would be sponsored ing the team through the actual uh Recreation well like some sports are just P like PAL Basketball was always that is different right yeah they still do that yeah okay so they will have like like um Council uh council buer is saying she'll they will have like they'll host like their own like basketball leagues so they would have teams from other townships going in that would go through the pal so a traveling team would be a pal as opposed to an in town team right which could be either one right I don't even know I don't think traveling is I don't think when when I kids did basketball the pal it was not travel it was all and maybe they do it differently now it's been a while but I think traveling I mean don't doesn't the Vernon little league and stuff have their own boards they do and their own fundraising and their own fees so it's not like anybody on on our staff is is is managing that no we just right we just um they just registered through our rec department I think and and we manag the field usage yeah we manag exactly and the time to scheduling scheduling and the calendar like Michelle manages the calendar yes okay so she makes sure that like one team isn't there when another team should be there so she organizes that so we don't have like an influx of teams that are just showing up and then they have no field she organizes all that yeah I think there's some confusion I'm for example Brad just mentioned something we just stepped by the pal does run the travel basketball program that's their gym their program and I run it and he just when he passed by he said no it's not that way I think it is so I think there is confusion I I used to be on a l League board years and years ago and we reported to the uh to the W board the W board had control over us for monies but they didn't have control over it for functionality and making decisions what team or or what we're doing or what leagues we're in or who we're playing with the Williamsport group or anything like that it was just the money you paid for the field usage is that what you did Bill you paid you paid to use the fields like did okay yeah yeah so we had to BU F the use of the fields as a group so but a perfect example though would be little soccer Recreation soccer that's sponsored by the township for the recreation league and then you have the travel team and I think they even have an older group for soccer but then you have the travel team that kind of feeds from the uh those those student those uh athletes that want to yeah I think it's so what you're saying is the travel team has a breakout with a separate group of people thank you and they report to somebody somewhere because there has to I think the Inc team goes through palal from so for soccer it used to and then the travel team was like separate for for soccer can we just clarify that for a future meeting and uh find out what the process and procedure is there's some parents are confused I know how it used to be when I was involved has changed a lot and uh you know there's travel teams there's in town teams there's use of fields there's there's money there's budgets and uh you know even some parents are saying this could be better organized some of them have volunteered to coach some haven't some of them don't know who to even contact so it's uh little confusion like I said the P they're kind of like their own entity right so but but again um and then we have um we have leagues right that um I don't think is again I don't think is controlled by by any one person in Vernon uh Vernon Township I think it's they have their own leagues that manage that we just manage the scheduling of the fields and maintenance of the fields Soh um I'm I'm not a sports guy so um Brad I don't know if you can are you my kids it changed so much since my kids have been through I can't even really on because it it's kind of all over the map I I could understand the confusion that some of the parents have because the travel leags are different from the wck leags and P has some travel leags I guess but you know not all and it's just it's really kind of then you have the club teams on top of it yeah it's just all over the map it's when I was younger it was all done it was easy it was all done through the TRC difficult now yeah it's it's I couldn't answer the questions and you know what I'll have our rec director um kind of give us an overview of how or kind of a chart chart would be good yeah show who who and where to go it out only question I'm sorry any other questions no moving on all members have been given a copy of the minutes of our executive session on September 9th may I have a motion to place those minutes on the floor to be approved approved moved I'm Sorry by Mr Higgins no oh by Mr de benad I'm sorry and uh is there a second second seconded by Mr sparis um any additions changes no no no all right roll call please council member sh yes council member yes council member yes council member yes council president yes moving to our consent agenda please add a notify me if you'd like to have any of these particular resolutions separated we can vote on them separately resolution 24-24 authorizing contracts with fonics document Solutions through educational schools Commission of New Jersey Cooperative contract number 65 MC ccps resolution 24- 245 authorizing change order number one of contract for proposed improvements of various roads within the Vernon Township with within the Vernon Township with the Vernon champ Road Road Safety Systems LLC resolution 24-24 resolution of the township of Vern County of Sussex state of New Jersey authorizing contract through Bergen County cooperative pricing system number 206 BCPS for Striker medical number 438-2327 24247 authorizing change order number one contact I'm sorry contract for approved uh proposed improvements of various roads within uh Vernon Township with Riverview Paving Incorporated resolution 24248 refund overpayment due to state tax judge court judgment uh parenthesis 5:15 Vernon property LLC and parenthesis parenthesis block 413 Lot 10 and parentheses resolution 24- 249 resolution authorizing leasing of certain vehicles for the Department of the police through sourcewell National Cooperative number 060618 dfm through Enterprise Fleet Management Systems Incorporated I'm sorry make that Fleet Management Services Incorporated quote number 82 90694 1 Diamond black unit resolution 24-24 authorizing change order number one of contract for proposed improvements of maple grain lower parking lot with Riverview Paving Incorporated resolution 24-25 one resolution authorizing agreement with claims compensations Bureau to pursue class action funds for EMV chip fees the Discover Card fees and other potential interchange fees resolution 24- 252 a resolution authorizing Award of contract to vendor with national Cooperative contact contracts HG C buuy uh resolution 24- 253 approving active volunteer firefighter for membership in the New Jersey state Firemen's Association emmer in parenthesis resolution 24- 254 resolution authorizing the appointment of Thomas van lven as provisional Fire official for the township of Vernon resolution 24-55 authorizing the collective baring agreement with American Federation of state county and Municipal Employees and Vernon Township may I have a motion to approve the consent agenda I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second seconded by Mrs de benedetto uh any questions comments on uh 24255 mhm it's a very important subject it it it doesn't take effect for three more months want to make sure our employees are treated fairly want to make sure the town's treated fairly and I and we I had 20 minutes just to hear the presentation and I think it's an important enough subject even on the surface it appears to be fine and uh i' just like to move that that particular resolution be moved to the next meeting so we have two weeks just to uh look into any details I don't see any problem with it I'm just saying that it's that important so that that's my recommendation is there a reason why this needs to be approved this evening other than the fine gentlemen who are here see that it is and lady and lady I'm sorry I missed that I move we table it for for uh for you for consideration at our next regularly scheduled meeting we vote something gets tabled yes yes yes okay is there a motion is there uh can we vote on the table did somebody make a motion to table it I haven't heard one yet I haven't heard well that's what I mooved I moved to table it okay so okay okay so there's a motion is there a second you need a second a second on the table table um call the RO please council member are we voting to table this yes yes motion to table no council member dto no council member Higgins yes council member Spa no council president no motion not sorry yeah common sense as it's an important thing do you want to have that resolution pulled out bill so we vote on it separately yes we've already passed it no no we we voting on the table I'm sorry so um we'll just you need a motion to approve agenda minus minus 24- 255 I'll make a motion to approve the cons present agenda agenda minus resolution 24255 motion is made by Mrs buer is there a second second second of Mr Higgins uh roll call please council member bu yes council member Deo yes council member yes council member yes council president R yes motion carries may I have a motion to pass resolutions we have a motion for the agenda made it okay we council member we just okay us to be separate on 24-25 now we're going to vote on 24255 right all right we on the that's what I'm asking for now oh okay so we remov we're voting to remove we have a roll call please so it's included in right it didn't pass is it's not now we're voting on The consent I'm sorry that this is the consent agenda minus that resolution council member yes council member yes council member yes council member Sparta yes Council preso yes motion car and we have a resolution yes so now it's the one now we vote on 24- 255 I'll make I'll make that motion motion is made to um Place 24- 255 on the floor by Mrs bueri is there a second second second by Mr sparter uh roll call please council member buer yes Council membera yes council member hi AB council member Sparta yes council president R yes Mo carry thank you introduction of ordinance an ordinance of the township of Vernon County of Suk state of New Jersey amending chapter 275 of Township Code to repeal chapter 275 and replace a to adopt flood Hazard maps to designate a flood plane administrator and providing for severability and an ex effective in an effective date uh may I have a motion to introduce this moved moved by Mr spart is there a second seconded by Mrs bueri um all in favor I'm sorry roll call council member buer yes council member D yes council member hi yes Council M Spa yes council president yes motion carries adoption of an ordinance this is a second reading ordinance 24-18 an ordinance of the township Council of the township of Vernon County of Sussex state of New Jersey amending certain portions of the chapter 250 entitled fees in escros and chapter 330 entitled fees of the township count code may I have a motion to open the the uh floor for a public hearing on 24-18 moved moved by Mr Higgins is there a second second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I opposed motion carries floor is open to the public for discussion of ordinance 24-18 uh and only 24-18 uh public may come forward and if you have any comments or questions seeing no one coming forward may I have a motion to close the FL to the public I'll make that motion motion made by Mrs bueri is there a second second second by Mr Higgins uh all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed the motion carries may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 24-18 moved moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second seconded by Mrs bueri um any questions or comments on this not questions that I think at the last meeting there were some questions as to uh more detail as to where these numbers came from why they were up in some cases down in others was it a money grab as as one person in the public stated just interested to see if there's any more information on these numbers that were crossed out and new numbers put in where did where did it all come from well I think we provided that for you um can you speak in the microphone please I think didn't we uh you sent that request I think I provided you with the answers to that um on where especially some of the uh construction um fees came from uh we we looked at other townships we haven't had a uh a fee ordinance or fee uh increase in in several years um and we were we were trying to bring our building department so it's basically you know self-funded so well not self-funded but but at least you know pay for itself and I think we were shy um 5 to 8,000 uh so we we adjusted it we didn't adjust it to where all the other townships are I think we um I presented those numbers uh as to where they were and then we came down uh we came down off of that a little a little bit um CU again it was just enough we're not trying to make money we're just trying to you know keep things uh you know so so this this way kind of pays for itself and a way the building department pays for itself so that was the uh the the the move for for uh an increase in in certain fees again it's been several years since since uh anything has been has been done and with the cost of everything else that goes into it um we had to make some of those slight slight adjustments I would call them slight adjustments but that that was it I wouldn't call this a money grab um because it was just again a slight slight increase in certain things the pl has there been no feedback about that because that seems pretty significant what what is it the plenary retail distribution linary retail that those are liquor licenses yeah it's just it went up a lot well they have been um adjusted since I've been here um we can only raise the liquor license fees 20% a year up to $2500 we can't go any higher than that okay so that's what I did okay 20% a year up to $2500 okay thank you any other questions no just reification Mr Mayor you did give me those answers on a personal basis reason I asked publicly I wanted to have everybody else here yep what the rationale was no problem thank you R call please council member luary yes council member dto yes council member hiin yes council member Sparta yes council president mudo yes motion carries an ordinance 2419 ordinance amending the Vern in Township municipal code chapter 428 pedaling and soliciting may I have a motion to open the floor to the public on this ordinance moved moved by Mrs de benedetto is there a second second seconded by Mrs buer um all in favor please signify by saying I I I opposed motion carries if anybody wishes to comment on this please come forward seeing no one coming forward uh I will ask to close the floor to the public um on this uh may I have a motion please moved moved by Mrs de benedetto is there a second second seconded by Mr Higgins all in favor signify by saying I i i i motion carries floor is closed to the public may I have a motion to adopt ordinance 2419 moved moved by Mr Higgins second seconded by Mrs dead [Music] um any comments on this questions I do believe Marc I voted no and says yes here oh I'm sorry about I have oh on this okay thank you I will change that thank you all right that being the only comment uh may I have a roll call please council member duary yes council member vetto yes council member yes Council membera no council president yes Mo this time I'll ask for a motion to open the floor to the public for comment on any topic uh time is listed limited to five minutes may I have a motion please moved moved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second by Mrs de benedetto all in favor signify by saying I I I oppose motion carries flooor is open to the public on any comment or any issue good evening Council James rerto president Asing 3181 on behalf of the members of 3181 would like to appreciate and thank you for voting in confidence we'd also like to appreciate miss brigh our management team for working through with the contract this is the first contract in many years it's been extremely smooth everything was good we didn't have to go to mediation everything went exactly as we wanted there was compromise on both parts and we're able to come up with it a good contract thank you thank you thank you sure anyone else wishing to adjust the council Scott Cassel from Glenwood um I've been away so I was just watching the last couple of meetings so couple of the topics I have are slightly older but uh if you could bear with me um the first one was on the that pump track um uh Monument topic that seemed to pretty much consume a couple of the meetings um you know first I wanted to thank uh Miss de benedetto for stating how you know reprehensible the conduct was people were shouting when the woman that I think was giving a kind kind of a firsthand uh account of what went on was trying to give her comments um and I think that was kind of uh was big on her part to be able to do that um and I think you know that can't happen in our meetings you've got to be able to to talk and not have people shout over you so I also want to thank you Mr Ruda for letting her finish her statement when people were shouting you know her five minutes were up and all of that so I think it's big to make sure that we allow people the the time they need to to say their piece and you know not everybody's going to agree on everything um I wanted to commend the mayor as well for taking the high road on that subject um you know I looked into it more because people were asking me to sign a peti petition uh outside the booker store and everything and um there's a lot more out there than what's being stated in public if you look into it um so you know they've slammed the mayor with some to me pretty slanderous statements um and he hasn't slump down to their level and done it and I could say if I was the mayor I would have slumped down to their level so which is why he's a good you know good person to be the mayor as opposed to me um you know I fully support the friends and the fellow bikers coming up you know giving their statements um but unfortunately they we still have that small group that was showing up here that they just will not like anything that the mayor does so they make these little coordinated efforts to try and make it seem like the whole town is outraged uh but it's the same people you know kind of saying the same thing and I think if all the facts were put out there and it was you know a question on the ballot or something I I I think we know how that vote would go um and I know there was one person it's just kind of weird there was one person up here you know pounding the table saying that uh this was cancel culture or something which is actually what they were trying to do by shouting down the poor woman at was trying to get her statement out so that was it on that topic I sorry to bring it up but it just bothered me watching those those couple of meetings um the next is kind of a criticism of the same mayor um I don't want to get too happy he was smiling and everything so I want to put it back down um but actually I mean I'm really happy with the job the mayor's done on everything except for the uh annual assessment that's up there because I think that you ran on the statement of getting rid of it so you cannot then come back and say you know I looked at it further and it's actually cheaper if we keep the annual uh then we go to the 5-year or 10 year or whatever really the time to do that due diligence before you make that stand was before you run um after you do that and people elect you on it you basically have to do that um you know I understand the annual assessments um are better probably for you know the CFO and bringing money in because it brings money in a lot faster um but I really can't stand the argument that you know you you people will be happy though if the housing prices drop because then your taxes are going to drop really quick if we get the annual assessments as opposed to if we wait for 5 years but I think we all know that if the annual or if the housing prices dropped and the tax dollars Dro down we'd be in a couple of weeks we'd be getting a presentation from the CFO saying we've got a big shortage and we have to raise the TA tax rate or something so the money's not going to just go away so um you know just to be clear I'm really happy with what the mayor did I just think you have to stick with the stance that you took um and that's what you got um you know voted in on and then lastly totally different subject but kind of gets to the the signage that was being discussed before um I wanted to Comm in the town I guess it's the recreation that takes care of maple Grange Park um my wife and I go there quite often and it's always maintained well um it looks nice and that's great obviously for the kids in the town because they get to play and do Sports there and everything but a lot of people come from other towns see that and it's a it's it looks really nice and it's it's kept up well we've been there the last two weeks we saw Sparta and Rockaway playing football there all the parents are there it's a lot of people I'm out anyway I think it's just great and last thing I'll just say is they had asked us like is there any place to eat around here so it would be great if we had some signs to tell people you know these are where restaurants are or anything so thanks thank you good evening an lson from Glenwood um since the gentleman brought up uh the annual tax rals I am very personally opposed to that and I just want to make sure we remind people that probably the long-term goal of that is to is to uh implement the unrealized tax gains so once we have a benchmark annually what the houses are worth that would make it very easy to facilitate unrealized tax gains on the profits from our homes so that's only one reason one one little uh arrow that I'd like to throw out there but it's an important one considering where we are in the uh in the election cycle so just a couple other things um I was going to ask again if we could consider bringing back the zoom comments for the for the public I mean just uh just last week the Board of Ed decided they were going to take it upon themselves to follow Q it's uh it's not a it's not a good look for a town to have uh you know people saying that they can't be heard at a meeting there are lots of reasons why people can't attend I get it I was there when my kids were younger I understand it there's elderly people there are a lot of uh you know a lot of excuses but we should have that available for for for our taxpayers that said what I wanted to actually get to talk about was the was the um what I think is appears to be a heavy-handed approach to the sign ordinance I think we have to tread lightly um at the moment we have now we had the banks combin themselves so now we've got an empty bank on Church Street we've got the T the uh the hot dog guy posted on Facebook the other day he needs to close suddenly we lost the electrical store um we have a new a new sale which is good a $1,125,000 across from the acne but that's a big mortgage to pay every month so they're going to need to do business and I feel like any you know anything we do could could just you know cause people to go off the edge I mean Miss PIR you mentioned several times about how if we had a you know a larger sign out front that you know when when the business is closed and you said several times when one Le when when closes you know what we're planning on them failing that's the wrong message you know I mean when we say that when they leave they take the sign down the next person buys the sign that means we are not intending for these people to be here long term and they've invested in many cases their entire life savings they don't get bement time off they don't get you know sick time they don't get time for paternity leave they're there working every day otherwise they live and die and the business dies and here we are you know well I don't like this son and I don't like like that sign we got to stop that before we run them out of town you know it's just not a good look for a town that is not overly populated you know everybody keeps saying oh we should have a Panera we should have a this we should have a that no all those people have been here and they do traffic studies and we don't have the traffic to support it we need to recognize that and at least embrace the people that we do have coming here it's just uh it's you know it's a cycle you know we want to treat ourselves as though we're Short Hills we're not short Hills and they're not going to make the kind of money you make in Short Hills and it's just it's just a wrong look to start to start being breathing down the necks of a small business we don't like your signs so I I think that we should think really long and hard before we do anything further to these people thank you very much have a good evening is there anyone else pushing to come forward hi I'm Tom troncone I own Alias Brew Works I just want to talk about the food truck ordinance if I could first I want to thank the council for for addressing what's a really an important thing for our business uh you know serve food to people who come drink alcohol there's a lot of different reasons I won't go into them all now um the process that we came up with with the town on a temporary basis was that food trucks approved by the health department uh by the sus County Health Department um then they get a food handling permit from the town and get a fire permit um and then they come out and then the sus County Health Department comes and inspects them um the fire department the fire um officer comes in um inspection as well that seems to be working um reading through the ordinance uh there's one thing I just want to just kind of see if we can work on or carve out or whatever it may be uh there's a there's provision in here about uh about fingerprinting and and photographing um everybody who who has a food truck um I'm not entirely sure how it would work cuz a lot of them are like you know corporations like how do you how do you do it to like cousins main lobster or something like that right um but I think we're conflating two things the Peddler's license which is basically I go around door too or I go around with ice cream truck through through the town um on all residential neighborhoods as opposed to to you know a a truck that comes to my private property um of a business nonadjacent to you know public uh Street or not on the right away um and they set up and serve food for the day I don't know of any municipality that requires that allows food trucks that requires all the people who operate the food trucks on private property to um to be fingerprinted and photographed and have background checks done um I would just ask you maybe reconsider that one aspect of it cuz it it's probably going to be hard to get a lot of food truck we're pretty far away from where a lot of them are set up anyway cuz a lot of them Union County middlex County because they like to be centrally located in the state um so getting to come up here has been a little bit a challenge anyway um and now tell them that they're going to have to go through like a a a criminal background check um maybe there's a you know an affidavit or something with the application that just that that says you know we're not criminals or um I'm not entirely sure I just wanted to to flag that one part um there's another part of the language that talks about being inspected by the sus County Health Department before you can get the permits from town um it doesn't work like that susus County doesn't come out until they're already there um so you couldn't kind of you couldn't get inspected by susus county and then come get the permits because you have to get it and then susus County stops out the same way the fire per engine stops out when you're set up and a lot of times s County doesn't come out they there people are there on the week weekends and they've told me that they have trouble getting folks to come out to do the inspections on the weekends so they kind of pick it up as they can we've had people come out a few times before the sus County Health Department um even makes their way out um so yeah I would just you know I would uh ask that there's there's there would be three different permits that they would need now um and I would just ask maybe we think about the two permits that they get now which is food handling well three now which is sus County Health Department food handling and Fire Prevention I'm adding another one on top of that the activities permit or I'm I'm not entirely sure what it was um I was asked if we we kind of rethink that part of it um again thank you um I'm I'm available to anyone if they have any questions about how you how it works on a DayDay basis but I'll just tell you that um days we have the food trucks our our business is up like 30 40% wow from from when we so it's it's kind of important to us and uh I appreciate you you all working on it that's great the issue regarding the food truck ordinance is in the hands of the attorney right now um as far as whether or not the there's a fingerprint requirement that will come from the attorney's recommendations not from us I I I I really don't know how that emanates you know where where it begins and as as far as uh you know uh having the county first or the township first again that's that protocol is is developed between the township and the county I know nothing about it I don't know if the council does individually or in total but whatever they set up then of course we'll we'll see that it's uh memorialized I would just ask that we treat it separately from a Peddler's license so I feel like they're two entirely different things council do no not at all right now you are getting a ped's license because we don't have a food truck license and this is um this is how I I don't know if it was zoning or decided to to give a Peddler's license for the food trucks um so that is where the requirement comes in for the fingerprints because that's in our Peddler's license because a pedler right is somebody who does go around the town um so in the food truck ordinance I don't know if that will be a requirement but that's why right now your food trucks are required to do that but they're actually not okay because we we they they give us special uh temporary zoning approval okay so they don't actually have to get theed license if I if I could well yeah as the council president said uh I I'm I'm filling in tonight for for Matt mench who's the township attorney but I know he was working on this so I will um take these your comments under advis with Matt and make sure that we you know I think um if that was in there I think Marcy made the point that it was under the pedaling license um so yeah we we'll take these under advisement and and present uh last we just have to make sure we're following the county and state guidelines on to just the last thing the Peddler's license you know for people going door to door I trucks whatever um to get that if you you automatically get it if you're a veteran or exempt firefighter and I noticed in new ordinance we talk about their exempt from the new permit that was created um so I think we're kind of conflating two things okay Sor okay I think the issue there was you needed a license we didn't have it so we gave one closest to you no no I appreciate that I'm just saying moving forward when we do the ordinance it' be awesome if it if they don't have to than thank you is there anyone else wishing to control council president can I just make I just wanty to make two short comments real quick if you don't mind um I I think this is this the wrong there's some wrong uh perception on what it is we're trying to do with the sound with the sign aits and you know we hear this heavy-handed but we're raising this concern cuz we're trying to make make it uh make the sign ornaments work for our businesses and not we're not trying to put more restrictions on them we're trying to lift it and this lift some of those restrictions and this is the reason for the sign uh why this is coming uh coming to light now so I just trying to change that perception that we're you know right now there's like there's a lot of restrictions on things so right now we're trying to adjust it change it so we can be more business friendly uh that's one thing and the tax reassessments there's going to be another um there's going to be another meeting U that we're going to have on the tax reassessment program but it is not going to be another uh uh demonstration it's it's it's going to be more of a QA it's going to we're going to be closely uh one-on-one with with with the people my goal and my responsibility is to make sure that we we look at The Good the Bad and the Ugly of the tax reassessments um I I've made no position on it um like I said I know what I ran on but again this is we're going to have another um another meeting and uh again with the tax assessor and we're going to have that Q&A it's not going to be another you know slideshow and presentation so it's it's again to to bring the the good and the bad and ugly to people um and looking to hear their feedback and concerns and we can address them uh you know basically almost 101 so thank you that's that's all wanted to add a little little to that so anyone else motion to come forward if not I'll ask for a motion to close the meeting to the public move mooved by Mr Sparta is there a second second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I I oppos motion carries may I have Council comments Mr Higgins yes just a one question from last meeting to Tina and DaNell there was a large understanding and a description of the new it system the phones and all the networking and the question was remaining are you leasing it or are you purchasing it that was to be looked into for tonight's meeting do you have an answer to that so the phones are for the term of our contract at the end of the contract we would have to go back out to bid for a new company so if the company stays the phones would stay if we went to a different company then we would get new phones again so you're leasing it then yeah okay just be aware that we got we're we're going to be charge monthly payment which is going to be the use of the phones so it's going to be like a phone bill all the other right right so at the end of that term they own it right you have to decide then to replace it you can't just keep the equipment and get new so you're leasing the equipment okay that's that's answer thank you and yeah and we we would have to go out anyway because of the the contract term stipulations right for public contract have okay thanks that was it for me Mr rero thank you Mr Higgins Yeah you mentioned the uh I guess it's the tax assessor is going to do a Q&A on somebody okay is that going to be during a council meeting no no I it would be good if we could do something during a council meeting cuz that's when everybody's here and I know it's going to be a hell of a meeting but well we'll schedule we you know like last time I scheduled it you know I didn't schedule it for like noon time I did have it at evening um could you get them at a council meeting I I just feel like that's when everybody's already here this that's not really Council business the tax assessments no you wouldn't you wouldn't if we have to vote on them again it would be though right that's how we would gain our information it's contracts and stuff no doing it you know I just feel like nobody shows up to these additional meetings and then they come to the council meetings and ask we had people show but we give it you know we do give some uh advanced notice and and again it's something that I took the initiative on to to try to yeah not nobody get that out there so and we we'll we'll have it in the evening on a specific day all right um I did have something else but I sidetracked myself with that so that's it for me okay Mr spart uh I have two com it's one or both of them uh pertain to the county I hope the mayor can help out with this uh we had another truck lose its breaks on 515 um the other day so there's plenty of signs on that road says it's prohibited there's a rumor out there that the county never passed an ordinance to enforce that or what can we have some sort of clarification as to what's going on with that I mean luckily the driver uses head and went off the road before Breakneck before he came down to the bottom of the hill where the stoplight is where there's just cars stacked up just waiting to get run over so that's number one the other one was about a year and a half ago I brought up about the intersection on 517 veran Crossing roads and the dangerous accidents that happen there constantly um I think even um the chief was at that meeting I kind of asked him that um ask around for the county if they could do another traffic study there if there's uh another way that traffic could be handled in a different manner where uh we don't have these accidents I think it was January of 22 is when I brought it up uh January 23 I'm sorry and I think in the first week of January there's four accidents there I'm sorry it's 5:17 in where 517 in burn and cross road by the Glenwood all right there was another accident there earlier this week um and not for nothing my daughter was boled an accident there four years ago so um I I think that's something that needs to be looked at I know I know the chief had because when I brought it up I know the chief had his his ideas as to what was occurring there and um whether it's accurate or not is is another thing but yeah I think right it's it's important that we do these the these studies and I think we just for example right out here um we just did a traffic study um because we've had several employees almost get hit by cars that came through here so we were looking at some kind of speed bump and I think what was the number how many cars was it 15,000 in in a day right it was 15,000 cars what where right in front up front on Church Street yes you driving back and forth are you yeah is somebody just driving back and forth this is what this is what was reported that's what I did all day that's crazy 15 I mean I I know not for nothing I come home 5:15 every day I follow log trucks down the hill followed tractor trailers down the hill I've called the police department on the way to ask them to send somebody out to please get this person turned around that never seems to happen so something has to be done somebody back in '94 a lot of casualties happened in that bus accident MH it's going to happen again if we don't do something about that and and also I think Hardon has to be involved in it as well the Haron Police Department sits at the end of the exit on 23 getting people for rolling through the stop sign and they sit by the old municipal building across from the Methodist Church almost daily mhm and they see these trucks going by and they don't do anything for them either so it it's a you know we need to get the county involved we need to get hardest on board before a tragedy happens here and barring that if we can't get them up we need to know why right so we can make it we can go after that because you know I I like I sympathize with Mr spart I I remember going up and down myself when I was working but now now I don't and I don't see it but I know it's happening my question is is there a reason why our local police are they are they uh prohibited from giving any type of that's what told because it's a count County Road because of the signage or something like that no they could still the issue some it's still within our Township uh and I believe they we do we do have areas where they do traffic um traffic Patrol um I I don't exact forgot the the exact term uh they use traffic enforcement or um I just you know I don't think it's you know a 24/7 thing but I think uh but I I'll and I'm sure he'll probably call me tomorrow and and discuss this so we okay I I will make mention to him about the the situation one more comment about 515 as well and and I I called you about it uh on the way home one night about the political sign that was on the top of the mountain it has been removed it was removed last Thursday or Friday I don't know if it was our it was yeah um enforcement that did it or not but um you know those those I know everybody runs for Council or school board or anything else they adere by the 30-day notice and uh I don't care if you're running for congress or senate or whoever you abide by it as well um some conflicting information uh was given to a zoning officer and uh you know certain things about about political SS being on State Property um but ultimately the munici after further research ultimately the municipality has the the the final say on on sign sign uh you know ordinance you know on sign ordinance and and when they should be put out there and of course so uh we we did take action and did remove it so and whoever put a sign next to it said rules for me and not for thee I appreciate that oh that's funny I didn't know that y yeah I never go that way thank you that's it thank you um no comment um I do have a comment mayor and I will be meeting with [Music] um a a group of concerned members of various townships with regards to the jcpnl situation with the the uh the high costs uh my compliments to the office for Mike and Gort for his getting involved and his staff for uh jumping on the uh the the accelerator on this and getting it going and uh it's going to take place early in October and we'll see what we can do it'll be brought back um yeah I raised that concern I had a mayor's meeting on Saturday so um I raised that and there was other municipalities that that uh got weighed in on it too so uh they were pretty upset especially with you know the uh I mean triple quadruple in in the electrical cost I mean it's been through the roof so um yes it's October 3rd we're having that meeting so um looking forward to that one thank you um motion to come motion to adjourn moved moved by Mr sparter is there a second second second by Mrs bueri all in favor signify by saying I opposed motion carries meeting is adjourned wait how are truck supposed to get e e