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I didn't eat dinner yet. >> He did tell me it was >> you. Okay. >> Yes. >> Township clerk, please read the statement. Regular meeting was provided to the public and the press on January 22nd

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and was posted at the club 104. to the flag, please stand under all.

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>> Roll call, please. >> Member >> here. >> Council member Ols >> here. >> Council member Rudo >> here. >> Council member >> present. here have a proclamation to read from the mayor concerning a park and recreation

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month >> unless you want someone else to read it. >> Yeah, I was just going to pointing at that. So I do apologize. >> Could you read it? >> Yeah. uh designation of July as park and recreation month

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whereas parks and recreation programs are integral part of communication throughout the country including Vernon Township, New Jersey. And whereas our recreation are vitally important to establishing and maintaining the quality

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of life in our communities, ensuring the health of all citizens and contributing to economic and environmental well-being of a community and region. And whereas parks and recreation programs build healthy, active communities that aid in

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the prevention of chronic disease, provide therapeutic recreation services for those who are mentally or physically disabled, and also improve the mental and emotional health of all citizens. And whereas parks and recreation

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programs increase a community's economic prosperity through increased property values, expansion of local tax base, increased tourism, the attraction and retention of businesses, and crime reduction. And whereas parks and recreation areas are fundamental to the

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environmental well-being of our community. And whereas parks and natural recreation areas improve water quality, attract uh groundwater, preventing flooding, improve the quality of the air we breathe, provide vegetate buffers to

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develop and provide habitat for wildlife. And whereas our parks and natural recreation areas ensure that ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate

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outdoors. And whereas the US House of Representatives has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month. And whereas Vernon Township, New Jersey recognizes the benefits derived from parks and recreation resources. Now therefore, be

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it resolved by the Vernon Township Council that July is recognized as Park and Recreation Month in Vernon Township, New Jersey. >> Thank you very much. Before the mayor's comments, like to recognize Mr. Henderson, Alan Henderson

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to attend the meetings on occasion. Thank you, >> Mayor. >> Hi. Thank you, Council President. Um I don't have much to really add other than just echoing um the importance of I I didn't

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I know it's always the running joke. I I really didn't think they value until I got to see how hard they work and how they're so responsible for bringing this community together and they do it

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doing it. So again, thank you to Michelle and Meg again for all that hard work and thank you to everyone who participated in the car show if anybody was there. But it was a event again and growowns.

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Um so again this is what people enjoy. They love uh coming together and and doing events and I I think it's something that uh should be valued a little bit more and I think uh a lot of people want to see it more. So that's it. But that's uh that's all my comments.

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Thank you very much. Next will be public comment. This is limit to three minutes per person and it has to be an item that's on the agenda. If you care to speak, please come up to the microphone, state your name, and whatever you care to speak about. Everybody's welcome.

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>> Open the floor. >> Do we have a motion to open it to the public? >> Second. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> seeing no members of the public come forward. May I have a motion to close the meeting to the public? >> Move.

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Next is a review of the bills list. Any comments from the council on the bills list? >> I do have >> I do too. >> Okay. Start with Carl then Sandy. Um, starting with 60 uh 66203

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uh grant writing at the district, do we have a designated grant writer or is this employee doing it kind of on the side? >> We have a uh we hired a grant writing company. >> No, wait, wait, wait. Is that the one? >> Yeah, right.

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>> Yeah, that's class F. One of our employees took >> Yeah, that's that's the name of the class somebody's taking. >> Oh, okay. So, she's not writing grants. >> No, she took a class to help. >> I thought the same thing. >> We do have a company like the mayor was saying. Um, but she also took a class to

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uh, you know, like some of the smaller grants that we get. We don't have to use the company. She can go ahead and do it. >> So, we're kind of helping do something in house that we're currently outsourcing. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. And then there's another question. Um, it's a 662000.

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Um, Jenner 010 Inc. for general code. Codification. What is that? >> Modification. >> Modification of our ordinances. >> Oh, okay. That was it. Questions I had.

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>> Sandra. Well, I was just looking um six 6 22 um Legends Redevelopment 14,000 >> What's that about? If anybody knows >> what is it

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>> like who's that >> development? >> Yeah, >> McManaman. >> Who's that going to? H that's >> uh the developer pays for that. Um but again it comes through we collect a um >> escrow >> an escrow account. Um they fund that

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escrow and that pays for legal or planning or uh engineering. So it gets paid so it doesn't come out of taxpayer money. >> So this is coming out of escrow. >> Yes. >> Okay. How would we know that?

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Like by looking at this like because I'm looking at and thinking well you know it's coming out of our money. >> Yeah. No. Um >> is there a way that I would be able to tell it's coming out of escrow or somebody else's money? >> I know what Edmond reports don't run it

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that way. >> No, >> but this is definitely coming out of their escrow. >> I would you're >> Yeah. Yeah. Irene makes makes Irene always makes sure that um that especially when they go low on their balance that that she's on top of them to make sure they they put enough and we

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usually get um estimates on what certain things will cost. Um and then and then we we uh communicate that to them and then they'll go ahead and they'll cut us a check to to fund that. We do that with every developer. Um this way it doesn't

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cost the township any money. Okay. Can you assure me it's coming out of their escrow on an account? >> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It's a standard practice. >> Well, yeah, but I would like to be able to identify that to make sure

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looking at this, you would think we paid for it. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it goes it goes to us, but it we pay them through obviously we pay them out of our escrow. So yeah, it looks like it's it's coming out of our money per se, but it's their money in escrow. So >> okay,

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>> and they usually hold a balance of of several thousands. So >> then once a project is done, whatever's left and we cut them to check back whatever's left. Nine out of 10 times ain't much left. Any others?

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Oh, no. No. Thank you for asking. >> I just have one quick one. I just saw it because it's on that same page on 66223. Small amount, $1,255. It's a duplicate tax refund. We're We're duplicating a

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tax refund or what's I don't understand what that means. So what happens is when sometimes when people pay off their houses coming yeah you're getting when the they pay off their houses um Core Logic pays the bill like because you have a mortgage but then the homeowner says oh

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wait I paid my mortgage off so they pay the h they so probably Core Logic paid it and then the resident paid it so then we have to refund one of them so it okay any others Okay.

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>> Approval of the minutes. June 22nd, 2026 executive session. I have a motion to approve June 22nd, 2026 executive session meeting minutes. >> Moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call, please.

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>> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Uh, yes. >> Council member Razudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes. Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> May I have a motion to approve June 22nd, 2026 regular meeting minutes?

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>> Moved. >> So second. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes.

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>> She carries. >> Next item is consent agenda. There's a number of uh resolutions from starting 26 219 through 26 230. If anybody wants to pull out and have a discussion

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separately, let me know which ones before we vote on the rest. >> 219 >> 219. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. >> Questions have >> any uh any others? Okay. >> So then would be a motion on resolution

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262 20 to >> through through >> 26 230 >> 26 230 >> removing 26 219. >> May I have a motion for 26220 through 26 230 to approve?

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>> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Council member Kino. >> Yes. >> Council member Owens. Yes. >> Council member Fudo. >> Yes. >> Sparta. >> Yes. >> Federal. >> Yes. >> Have a motion to discuss 26-219.

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>> Okay. So, I just have some questions. >> Make the motion. >> Oh, sorry. Motion. >> Second. >> I'm sorry. >> Discussion. >> I made the motion. Sandy to discuss. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> Okay.

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>> Yes. So my question is just about these three vehicles. Um one being a Tahoe. Now first are we replace are three vehicles going back to Enterprise and we're replacing three vehicles or are these just three vehicles we're getting?

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>> No, we're replacing them. >> So I know we had a pickup truck. So that one's going back. >> Is that what's on here? >> The new one's coming. >> We're always replacing um >> the F-150. >> Yes. So, the first one, the F-150, the

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first quote is to vehicle 308. >> Okay. >> Um, it's a 2022 Ford F150. >> Okay. >> All right. The second one, uh, the next replacement is for vehicle 316. It's a white 2022

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Ford Police Interceptor SUV. And then the last one is an admin vehicle they're replacing. um 2023 the Dodge Durango um because of inflated costs.

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>> So why a Tahoe? Isn't that a little overkill for an admin car? And it's got a big price tag on it, >> right? >> They're all police cars. >> Oh, >> they're all three of these vehicles are with the police. >> Oh, I thought you just said replacing an

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admin car. >> But they have admin cars. a police admin car. >> They have to have that as their admin car at Tahoe. I mean, that's a big price tag on here, but you're replacing it with something else. This is a replacement. >> Yes.

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>> Did they have a Tahoe in the past? >> So, I think my understanding is that's the one you were saying. I think the reason why we're getting this one because that one when we bought it, I think this is going to be >> it's replacing a Durango. >> Durango. >> Durango. Yes, it went. I believe it's

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>> And just another note too that we're uh we we tried to go with the Durangos because they were a little cheaper and they have been nothing but problems. We've had to replace engines in them already. They're brand new. They've become a disaster for us. So, >> but isn't that on them Enterprise to

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replace and >> Well, yeah. I mean, yes. So, that >> sold down vehicle >> down and you're taking them service. So, we just we don't find them to be that reliable. Um, so we're going to continue on with the interceptors going forward.

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>> Okay. >> Anything but the dodge. So, I like the dodge, too. But >> I had a question on the same resolution. Tina, I sent you a an email today. So, we're leasing this equipment through uh Enterprise.

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>> Yes. And we're using source as the vehicle, not the vehicle, the car, but the way of processing the uh >> that's the co-op that >> that's the co-op. So my question there's a there's a cost to that typically somewhere between 12 and 15%. Sourcewell

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is in it to make money. Sourcewell owns the co-op. They go around the country to municipalities and say, "We have a co-op. If you want to use it, please do. It's a good purchasing vehicle and you pay us a fee. There are a lot of companies that say we don't need

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Sourcewell or we don't need the other people like Sourcewell and usually they're the bigger companies like Enterprise. They have their own purchasing contract. They they short circuit it so that their customer, the municipality, can lease off of their own

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contract. It have I'm in that business. I I do it all the time and I represent a company that just went out and got their own state contract. Up until this year, before they got their state contract, we had to go to the source wells and the others to say, "Okay, will you do

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business with this municipality and how much will it cost?" So, it's a a good question for enterprise. Do you have your own contract? And if you don't, I'd really be surprised because they're a national company and they should have their own contract. makes it easier for

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them, makes it less expensive for the end user, the municipality, and and we uh save some money. It's a good question for them. >> So, we go we use those companies off of Sourcewell because Sourcewell will go

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out to bid to get the the you know, the cheaper prices with the companies. So, that saves us from us having to go out to bid. So we we look at that. We see what vendors are on there and then we know that when we are going to get in

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touch with enterprise we're going to get a quote from them and then they're going to come back with a quote and it's going to be the better price because they're already been bidded through source well. >> Yeah. The the one question to ask enterprise is do you have your own contract? Okay would be the question.

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They may Ford may have their own, you know, Chrysler may have their own, whoever is in that business. And if they do, that's just short circuiting another cost. >> Cut the middleman out. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I hear you. >> Any other questions on 26 219?

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Have a motion to uh move on 26219. >> Second. >> All in favor? 26 219. I'll have to do a roll call. >> You need a roll call. Okay. Roll call on 26219. >> Council member. >> Yes.

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>> Council member Holmes. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yeah. >> Motion, please. >> Next up, public hearing, adoption of ordinances. >> Ordinance 6-12, establishing the salaries of

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certain officers employees, township of Vernon, county of Sussex State, New Jersey. I have a motion to open the public hearing of ordinance 26-20. >> Second. All >> in favor? Any >> oppose?

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Any any members of the public wishing to come forward? May I have a motion to to open it up to the public on 2612? >> We have we have a motion already. >> Okay. >> And a second. Any members of the public

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wish to come forward? Seeing no members of the public, I have a motion to close to the public. >> Moved. Second. >> Roll call. >> And all in favor? >> All in favor? >> I.

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>> Motion to adopt. >> And have a motion to adopt 2612. Motion. >> Second. Second. Roll call. >> No. >> No. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes.

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>> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes. Ordinance 26-14 bond ordinance appropriating 5,700,000 and authorizing the issuance of 5,33,000

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bonds or notes of the township for various improvements or purposes authorized be undertaken by the township of Vernon County of Sussex, New Jersey. May I have a motion to open the public hearing for 26-14? >> Move.

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>> Second. All in favor? >> Anyone from public? >> Any members of the public wishing to come forward? May I have a motion or any any members of public coming forward? Please do do so. >> Seeing none, motion to close.

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>> Seeing no members of public have a motion to close to the public. >> Moved. >> Second. >> Any second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. May I have a motion to adopt ordinance 26-14?

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>> Moved. >> Have a second. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member, >> no. >> Council member Ruro, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes.

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>> Council President Higgins, >> yes. >> Council President, may I have a moment to make a comment? >> Yes, sir. question for our CFO. Um, in your preparation for the budget

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through this past year, how much did we reduce our uh cost for paying off? You know, how much our bonding was paid off? >> How much extra we're paying down on the bonds? >> The existing bonds. Yeah. >> I believe it was 600,000.

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>> 600,000. And um >> but I will confirm >> and right now uh the our bond debt bond debt asset ratio is less than

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88. >> Yeah, I don't have that number. I'm sorry. I don't have >> I believe it is. So, I I just don't want the public to believe that, you know, we're less than one penny, you know, uh for the uh for the level of uh

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debt uh for uh for the count for the township and I I just thought I should bring that up. >> What is our total debt? >> I don't have I can get you that number. because we have it between notes and bonds. I would have to get that number.

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>> I can get to >> about 36 million >> 36 >> in that area. >> Okay. Again, came in running with one thing and trying to catch up with everything. So, >> no worries. >> If I'm off, please let me know. >> What did you say it was?

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>> About 36 million total. >> I will I will get you guys that information. >> I want to do the prices right. without going over. >> At the last meeting, we read uh or I read all the various items that this

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money was going to be used for. Roads, fire truck, large items, all needed. >> Also to um uh Councilwoman had me at the um online put at the end the capital sheet. So

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it's also uh online for anyone who like to see what it we were going out for debt. So the sheet that we had given to council saying what's getting paid by reserves and what's getting paid by it is online also. >> Oh the total debt. >> Well well not the total debt total what

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we're going that the backup for this this uh 500. >> No what's our total debt >> she doesn't know >> that I don't know but that is also online. It is our our annual debt statement is online also. So that is also available online.

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>> Any other questions on that pass? >> Thank you. >> Okay. Ordinance 26-15 ordinance providing for various improvements or purposes to be undertaken by the township of Vernon County of Sussex, New Jersey, and appropriating $281,280

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from the various funds of the township. May I have a motion to open the public hearing ordinance 26-15? >> Move. >> Second. >> Second. Second. All in favor? >> I

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Anyone from the public? >> All in favor? >> Anyone from the public? >> Any any of the members of the public wishing to come forward for 2615? Seeing no members of the public coming forward, may I have a motion to close

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the public hearing for 26-15? >> Moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> May I have a motion to adopt ordinance 26-15? >> So moved. >> Second.

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>> Call. >> Yes. >> Member Rudo. >> Yes. Council member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes. >> Ordinance 26-16, an ordinance amending the Vernon Township Administrative Code,

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chapter 250, fees and escros, section 250-16, zoning and land use. May I have a motion to open a public hearing for ordinance 2616? >> Some moved.

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>> Second. All in favor? >> Anyone from the member of the public comment forward? See no members of the public wishing to come forward. We have a motion to close the public hearing on 26 moved.

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>> Second. All in favor? >> I have a motion to adopt ordinance 26-16. Moved. >> Have a second. Second. Roll call, please.

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>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Item 12, public comment. Limited to five minutes. Anyone from the public on any

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topic? Anyone wishing to speak, state their name for the record. We have a motion open to the public. Moved. Second. All in favor? I >> Anyone from the public care to come

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forward? Yes, ma'am. >> Angelina B with 20 Burger Road in Highland Lakes, New Jersey. Um I don't know if you guys got an email this morning that I sent um but I'm just going to go over it as well in case you haven't had a chance to read it. Um, so the proposed ro vacation was denied as

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you remember back in February uh 2026 ordinance 26-2 but the D records confirmed that this remains township on public right away. However, when I requested there's emails from 2026 describing the vacation as

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quote pending um contradicting your decision that was made back in February. Um there's also an invoice um for the attorney to to the township bill to the township uh for professional services reading burger road vacation through

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April 30th of 2026 um a balance of 1,395 plus there's a deposit made before that. So I just like to clarify a few things. If um what actions did the township take after the council denied the vacation? Why did title search with and legal work

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continue after the denial? Um, were there any additional decisions made after the council without the council approval? Um, and who's responsible for the legal fees if it fell on the it was covered by the verdant taxpayers if there's an escrow because I didn't get

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that information through overall. Um, additionally, the township engineer did say that um they never seen a municipality auction off u right away before suggesting the non-rine options were being explored. Um, I did have a I

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did submit a complaint to the dog running at large ordinance. The complaint was returned without a docket number explanation regarding the lack of probable cause and it possibly because it's not marked at all. It's just the gravel still. So, nothing has been done since February of 2026 regarding this.

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Um, so I just respectfully request the township to formally acknowledge the property as a public rightway and enforce the applicable ordinances and mark the boundaries. And lastly, um, June, I I sent a letter in June, uh, the neighbor did accuse me of paying off my

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neighbors and also council member Carl Cantino to vote against the vacation of this road, which obviously is, uh, not true. And also, it doesn't make sense because I just want it to be public. There's no I don't have any interest in having it public. It's just I was

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supposed to be that's and that's all I'm asking for the um council to enforce. That's all. Thank you. >> Question. >> Yeah. So, when you put in a complaint, go to court for the dog.

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>> Well, yeah, because there's an invisible fence um >> that is installed across the the road and it's it's just it's just there. >> And what happened when you went to court? or did you get a notice back or what's what's going on with that? >> Uh, no, it was no probable cause. So, I

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I don't know why. I just my assumption is that maybe because it's not paved and you can't really tell where the boundaries are. Um, you know, obviously you could have pictures, but you it's really hard to tell unless you have a paved road that shows you this is where it ends, this is where the public property ends, this is where private uh

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property begins. Um, I just got a sticky note saying that it's us and that's it. So, I didn't get anything in writing as to why is that I have a question for the lawyer. When you file a complaint,

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do you just get cuz she's saying she got a sticky note that said no probable cause? Doesn't everybody get a day in court and get a docket number? >> Yeah, that that is the municipal >> without a judge saying it. That's the municipal court which is separate entity but usually there has to be pro probable cause

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>> and I I have I don't see any I haven't seen anything but from what the uh witness is saying or the president is saying >> questioning the process >> well the process is um if if you feel that someone did something wrong you'd go down to the municipal court there's a

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form that's called the probable cause form um the municipal judge would review it to find to see if there's probable cause. If there's not probable cause, then they send some type of correspondence back. I don't know what their policy or procedure is that they

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did not the judge did not find probable cause. >> So, but you would get some kind of legal document and signed. >> I I again I don't know how they they do it here. I don't know if that she was given I don't know I don't know the full aspects of it and I >> Yeah. So, the only thing I had was the

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sticky note that say no probable cause. >> How did you get it, ma'am? Did you get it in the mail? Did you get it? No, I came to the um to the office. >> And was that sticky note on your um >> on my complaint? >> That? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, I just got a copy of the form back cuz I wanted a copy and then I just wanted like a note from the judge

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because if it's no problem cause Okay, that's fine. But I just wanted to get a note, but I didn't get anything except the sticky note because I didn't know why. I'm just assuming it's because it's that's not paved. There's no boundaries. But I don't know. >> So that then the judge read it and found that there was no probable cause.

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>> Yeah. You think they would give her something more than a sticky note that says no probable cause on a sticky note >> without something signed? I mean, I wouldn't think that would be the normal problem. >> I don't know their process or procedure. >> I mean, yeah, my attorney said it was an

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he's never heard of that like a sticky note, but >> that's crazy. >> Again, he's he was the same opinion like he can't really speak to how the body works, but it's very odd that it was Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> One more thing.

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just went bigger. I they I called Matt A1 who said no property client. >> No. Okay. >> Can we take a moment to discuss this though because this has been going on.

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>> This is this is not a discussion. This is um public comment. >> Well, okay. As soon as you close public comment, let's discuss it. >> Um but I don't want to discuss it. >> Anyone answer any of the questions or No. >> No. today >> which

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>> and I can say publicly. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Any other members of the close? >> Yep. See no other members of the public wishing to come forward. May I have a motion to close the meeting to the public? >> So moved. Have a

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>> second. Second. Uh, all in favor? >> All opposed? Council comments. >> Start with Carl. >> So, I wanted to bounce off of what I just heard. Um, I received that email

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with all of the correspondence between the mayor and multiple attorneys way after we voted no on that ordinance. And I can see an invoice for professional services rendered through April 30th about the Burger Road

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vacation in the amount of $1395. And I can see all these emails going back months. Some discussing why we voted no. Some council members were concerned about the fact that we were

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giving the right of way without money. Other council members brought up the lake and how um one of the attorneys did not feel that that was a valid enough reason. Why is this going on after we voted no? That that's what I

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can't figure out with this because I voted no for a myriad of reasons. Personally, this whole situation makes me very uncomfortable. I feel like it's a dispute between two people over their property and it's not really the town's place to step in and give away our right

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of way in order to resolve that dispute. I feel like there are better avenues for solving that problem. I mean, I could go on about this. I just feel the whole situation it it doesn't feel kosher to me. feels like, you know, we as elected

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officials are stepping in now on a dispute between two people and that that's not really the place of elected officials. There's police, there's a court. I mean, I can see you're trying that, but why are we spending money on

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this? Why are we talking with professionals about this? And why are we giving opinions on the way that we voted months after the fact? I mean, I can't figure out why we're still talking about it. That's that's what I

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want to know because I mean, I can look through there's 44 pages of emails between multiple town professionals and the mayor about this topic and I get an explanation >> and the money spent for the title

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search. Where's that all Patty? Where's all that money coming from? Not part of the escrow >> for a title, sir. >> I would have to I would have to see if it was part of the escrow. >> I know they had an escrow account. >> I >> I'd have to charge Didn't it get charged to Jessup?

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You had Jessup doing it? >> We talked about earlier. Everything goes through us. >> One of the two litigants paid paid for that escro amount. >> Yeah, I think it was something like $2,000, too. >> But why are we still continuing with this? >> Like, we voted no to it. got a problem

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with a dog now. >> Um, >> but I don't know. >> This is not a time pardon me. >> It's not a time to have this. You know, this there there's two sides to a story, too. And this not a time where we're going to go back and forth and have this discussion. >> We voted no. Why is this continuing? Oh,

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I read those chain of emails. >> You're still trying to get this done for this these people that we already voted no. You're trying to find the historical data because we don't have much information. >> Why are you getting involved with it?

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It's a rightaway. >> If I wanted to vacate a road near me, would you be all gung-ho and working with me to get it done? >> When when our engineer and our attorneys have made that recommendation of vacating that road, which basically says we don't want anything to do with it,

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that's really keeping our nose out of it. So that this >> but you're saying you're not doing anything about it, but you are. You're ordering I >> I feel like it's just not the town Cory Stone or whomever to get it done. >> I I don't want anyone to interpret me

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saying that that I don't feel it's the town's place as being on the side of one person or another. If anything, I'm saying that because this is not something the township should be getting involved in, period. and offering to vacate the road to begin with is taking

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a side and getting involved. I I feel like we never should have been involved in that. But now since we had it on the agenda and we voted on it and now I feel like both parties feel like we are a part of this. I feel like doing something like a stakeout or figuring

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out who owns what it >> that's what we've been trying to figure >> but I think he's talking about staking out the road >> because they do call the police. both parties called the police or the dog animal patrol and they don't want to do

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anything because they don't know where the road is. So maybe it needs to be >> hence why we were doing title searches. >> But mayor, when I read those emails, it's not just we need to do a title search to get this done. It's a discussion about what we thought and why we voted no and how we can

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>> that was that was besides that that that is beyond me. But why why it >> it's emails that were sent between you and two other people. So, how is it beyond you? Forgive me if that sounds snippy, but that's how I feel. And I'm reading through these and it does not seem like we're oh, how can we end this?

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I feel like just figuring out who owns what. That's what we're that's what the tile surf is for. Trying to find out the historical data on that road and then that gives us a clear path until that is done. Then we have a clear path. But that's the whole point you keep talking

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about. You know, we we should know who owns the road. That's what we're trying to find out. But >> mayor, the dispute isn't whether or not one of the property owners owns the road. It would be whether Lake Wanda or the township owns the road. The only reason you'd want to know that is if you want to give up the >> Could be. It could be a property owner owns it, >> right? That's

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>> it could be could be >> it's a little odd that that road goes through property lines like that. Very odd. That's this is why it it it's it's drawn attention as to why that's like that. So to try to find the historical

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like where that property could have been the original owners and they gave right away. Now that the the the uh Lake Wanda has been has been debunked. You know, does that default back to the owners? We're trying to find out the historical

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information on that road. That's all this was was to do to to try to help dispute to end this this ongoing saga between the two neighbors. It's not about taking me sides. It's about finding out what the historical data is

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on that road and how that got to the way it did, which makes no sense. It's very bizarre how that road came about and those property is separated between a road. That's all that was for. So, it sounds like there's consensus that the two people that are arguing over this

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either have to share the cost or pay do a title search and you'll find out who owns the property. >> Not yet. No. >> The title search might be in a way. It seems like that's a general idea here. I don't know if it's ever been done. You may own it all or they may own it all or

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maybe half and half. >> But the question, >> nobody knows. >> But the question arises, >> why is the township involving it? Yeah, >> we it we there was an attempt to get a resolution to this. It did not pass the

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council even though I was one of the ones that to uh to to support it. Uh but it continues to this day. I don't know how much this is costing the township or individuals of the township or

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our own uh particular uh charges that are being assessed to us. But my question is why are we involved if there's a P

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procedure that we could that the people could follow which would be get an attorney bring it to the attention of the attorney have the attorney bring it to a real estate court and get a decision from them as to based upon the

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available information. This is the determination of of the court. Why would the township make that determination? >> This title search process has begun long before your council decision. Mayor

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>> Mayor, wasn't there an issue with regard to paving this portion in front of that garage? >> Well, that was another issue. >> Okay. >> Mayor, when I read these emails, like I just want to read this. This is from Corey Stoner. How do you want to proceed? I have never seen a

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municipality auction off a right of way before. This may be a question to the town attorney to provide some direction on how to proceed with auctioning off a right of way, which is township property. So, the way you're phrasing it to me is we're doing a title search so we can find out who owns what and settle

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the dispute. But then in the email chain, you're talking about auctioning off the right of way. That doesn't sound like you're just trying to end the dispute. It sounds partial. And that's what's making me uncomfortable about the whole situation because we should not even be discussing auctioning off a

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rightway. That's for the property owners to talk about doing after we find out who owns the road in the first place. And even then, >> right, when we find out who owns the road, we can have that discussion. >> But then why are you having it already? You're talking with the attorney why

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they haven't found it yet. >> Yeah, but Jessup is attorney expensive than a third party title search company. you're using Jessup is probably $200 a half an hour >> and that email like >> you're getting ripped off.

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>> You're talking with professionals about the possibility of auctioning off the right of way, you know, like that's not just trying to figure out who owns the lot. >> Wasn't wasn't this the big concern was we were giving away property where we

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should be selling this property and and trying to collect on it. That was your biggest thing. So yeah, that was, you know, can it's something that we can just auction off and let someone bid on it. We're trying to get this out of our money are assuming that we want to get involved. We don't want to get That's

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why we were trying to vac it. >> But now that >> since that time >> since that time, we don't even know who owns the property. >> Open the auction up something you don't own. >> Exactly. >> Only way to find it out is do a title search. >> We don't want to pay for it. >> And that's what we're that's what we're

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trying to find out. So, let the two may own the property now, >> right? They may own We don't know until Matt Jessup finishes his title search investigation. That's it. Then we find out then there's closure on it. That's all. That's what we're trying to find out. I >> I just don't understand why we're

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talking about auctioning it off in an email chain with township professionals. We haven't even established that yet. And I feel like the whole situation is just really not the town's place to begin with. like even the potential of auctioning off. My concern was yeah, we

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shouldn't be letting people have the road for free. Feel like that's pretty understandable. But on top of that, especially after I've learned more about the situation from being bombarded with emails, more I learn it's like why was this even on the agenda? Why are we even talking about this? This whole situation

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is not the town's place. like it. All this money we're spending on professionals, all the emails, all the time spent on it. It's like this is a dispute between two neighbors. It's not our place to auction anything off until

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they've settled it themselves, which they haven't. We seem to be opening up an avenue as a way to settle that dispute through the township, and that's not our place. Do I make sense on that? Like that makes sense. Okay, that's >> all I have to say.

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>> Yeah, Mr. Rudo, >> I have no comments. Thank you. So, >> okay. I really don't have any just to just intervene here for a second. If that right at this moment, it's a town road and if they're blocking that road

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or if there's a dog running at large up and down that road, why are we not enforcing it? Because right this moment that road is a public road. So, why isn't our police department or animal control

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helping these people out? Both of them, I believe, called the police. No one gets resolved cuz they don't. Or what about the dog? They say they have to come and watch the dog. She's got pictures of the dog. So, why aren't we enforcing anything? >> That would be the municipal court.

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>> Pardon me. >> That would be the municipal court. >> Well, she got it back on a sticky note. That what are we? >> Wow. >> Tobacco Road. I mean, come on. >> Now you know why I'm trying to vacate the road, right? >> Oh, no.

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>> That their dog is running loose. >> No, because all the >> Why are we not upholding the law when it comes to this section? Because right now we do own that section. >> How are we not upholding the law? >> Well, from what I'm understanding is she calls animal

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>> one side. That's what you're hearing. No, the woman writes to me and tell >> Okay. She So you >> So I do both one side. >> I know both sides, >> but I see pictures of dogs running up and down the road. You know, so why isn't these things

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getting enforced, blocking the road? That is my question. All right, continue. >> Mr. part >> uh we voted on tonight rejecting all bids for the AV project for council

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chambers and according to resolution is because there's had to be more specificity in the bids. Is that correct? So I assume we're going out to rebid again. >> We did. >> We already did. >> Yes, we did. And we um were waiting we

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were waiting for the bond ordinance to to you know to uh tell you what happened with the second bid. Um >> you had to approve tonight's bond ordinance. We have to wait the 20 days. So the resol second bid will be on the next meeting. >> Okay. So the second bids have already been received. Yes.

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>> Correct. So updating the microphones in here is still >> Yes. Yeah. So we the first bid you have the five that were rejected. it was either they were over budget or they didn't have all the credentials and everything for the specs. >> Okay. >> So, that is why and that was the first

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bid. So, that is the only one that you're seeing on here now. >> Okay. >> Um the August one you'll get the the second bid. >> Okay. I was hoping it wasn't >> No, it's not completely done. >> Okay. Thank you. Mich had one other question.

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>> Yeah. So, when looking back at the um leftover money from the bond when we brought up the issue of pickle ball, >> okay, >> and there's extra bond money that we never use and for how many years, five years, if not more, paying interest on

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that extra money. Is that now going to go back to the general fund or to debt rather to pay off? Um, I would, so what I have to do is I have to since I wasn't here when they did that ordinance, I really need to see who put that

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ordinance in and what the intent of everything that they were going to put in and make sure that they cover everything that they originally were. >> Well, I don't Isn't it two different projects? Like pump track is different than a pickle ball? >> No, because it's still the same area.

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It's in that ordinance. It allows for that area. It's in the audience. You give me the idea, you give me the stink eye, but it's in the audience. Really? >> To use um money from open space, but there's not a lot of active. It has to

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be passive active money left over. So, >> well, we we we have about a half a million in open space money. And then we have money that's still in in >> not all of it goes to active recreation. You have to go way back to the beginning

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short way and the ballot question. So, what's in that fund? All can't be used for active recreation. There was only 30% of that total fund that could be used. That was a ballot question. So, there's not a lot left for active

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and the rest has to go for passive. So, I don't know if you have enough there in active. So, you have to go back all the way to the ballot question. But at any rate, that extra money as I see it, you can only use it

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for that pump track. >> And like I said, if it right, but and then I don't know if pickle pool wall was a part of the original, but something came up to that value. And I just want to make sure that we're not missing something that was in the original plan. But then after that

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if I get directions to cancel the balance then that >> I think legally you have to do that right >> at some point. At any rate, with going forward when the future bonds, can the council get a list as the money is spent

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from each item be listed, notified so we know what was spent out of that bond money so something like this doesn't happen again. Extra bond money that just sits there and we're paying interest on it. >> Yeah. Let me see what kind of reports I

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can get. And >> that would be great. That would be great. I I mean I'm sure something but I just off top again new and admins. I'm sure there's something I can come up with that but uh I will look into that. >> Yeah, thank you. That would be a big help. So we just know what's being spent

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and how much and how much is left over. >> I think there's over 400,000 that's left over. >> It was about around 400 sounds right. >> Oh wow. and about 200 >> on that particular line item of that ordinance,

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>> right? That by pump track or >> ordinance >> with the bond ordinance for the pump money executive session. So don't journ. We have the B. We have the um executive session right continue. Yeah. So don't

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adjourn. We have to we have to turn this meeting and open it back into executive >> and then go back out and then close this meeting. >> Yeah. I want to do that. >> Well, that's what you guys want to do. I want to go home. >> Yeah. >> But you get your comment.

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>> Yeah. So, there's a couple comments. One quick question, Patty, just as a refresher. We approved the gazebo money, the 30 grand, >> right? So, that was part of that $75,000. >> So, the Yeah. The question is just for the public, where did that money come from?

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>> Uh, it's a local improvement recreation improvement grant. >> That was a grant, right? Wasn't it wasn't taxpayer money? Yeah, that that's what I wanted to hear. Yeah. So, the uh other question for the council is do are

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you satisfied with all the answers? Do you want to go into an executive session to continue these discussions? >> What would be the discussions in our prior executive session? We had three items. So, we were only going to continue on one item and that was the personnel issue.

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>> I would like more time to discuss that. Yes, >> the personnel mission. >> Yeah, just that. Nothing from the meeting itself because that would have to be discussed publicly. >> And we we didn't advertise to go into executive session for that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we'll stay here and uh we'll

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end this meeting. And may I have a uh >> motion? I'll make a motion to go in executive session. And we have a second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Thank you all for coming, but unfortunately you can't stay in on our executive session, so you'll get to go

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home to your loved ones >> by the December. >> Exactly. Knowing you, yes, they did. Now,