I don't know. She didn't say she was ahead to her last >> bill. There are some chairs over here if you'd like. >> Thank you for coming. Uh, will the clerk please read the meeting
statement? >> Adequate notice of this council meeting was provided to the public and the press on December 17, 2025 and was posted at the new children in accordance with the open public meetings act NJSA can't hear you. >> Sorry.
>> Sorry. NJSA 10 col4-7. >> Thank you. Would you all please rise with me and salute our flag? >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for its
nationy and justice world. USA. USA. USA. Before we start, >> I understand your enthusiasm. This is a public meeting. It's conducted within certain parameters. Please, let's
maintain a level of decor. Thank you. >> Excuse me. Wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that you're blurting this out. This is not a meeting where we just take the situation into hand like that.
Thank you. >> Roll call. >> Council member Bushier >> here. >> Council member Denado present. >> Council member Higgins here. >> Council member Sparta. >> Council President Rudo >> here. Special meetings
for one ordinance. Ordinance 25-17, Ordinance of the Township of Vernon, County of Sussex, New Jersey, approving application for a long-term tax exemption and authorizing the execution
of a financial agreement with Omega Drive Develop Redevelopment Urban Renewal LLC. May I have a motion to open the hearing for the public? Mot moved by Mr. Higgins. Is there a second? Seconded by
Mrs. Bucheri. All in favor signify by saying I. I. >> I. Opposed. Motion carries. The me meeting is open to the public for um this item and this item only. If you have um concerns or wish to address the
council, please come to the c to the uh podium and give us your name. >> This one. >> Yes. the time. >> No, this one. Yep. Three minutes, right? >> Three minutes. >> Okay. I'm confused. I thought we were having a presentation tonight. >> The presentation will come after this.
>> Oh, I thought it would be much more bene. >> Sorry. >> Makes sense. >> Yes. >> Ahead of time. >> Have concerns. He might be able to concern so we can sense. >> Excuse me. Address me.
>> Yes. Mr. Mudo. Council President Dory Edwards. >> Yes. Thank you. Please. Yeah. I hope you consider that. >> Yes. It'll be taken care of. >> Okay. So, he's going to speak now. >> Yes. Thank you. >> You want to do it first? Okay. Fine. What?
>> We should close the floor to public comment. We should have a motion. >> May I have a motion to close the floor? >> I'll make that motion. Second. >> Made by Mrs. Bucheri. Is there a second? >> Mrs. Benetta. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Motion carries.
All right, good evening everyone. Uh, as you know, my name is Matt Jessup from McManaman Scotland and Bowman and we are the townships uh, redevelopment council. We're here tonight to um provide you the governing body and of course the public with a little bit of detail about the
action item that's on the agenda tonight, an ordinance that would approve a tax exemption or a redevelopment project here in the township. Um, I want to start by going through the project details, a little bit of the history on the project. I know some of you are
familiar with it, but perhaps not everybody is. This is a project located at 1921 Omega Drive. It the redeveloper owns this property. So, developer already owns the property. It was designated as an area in need of
redevelopment in uh 2018 after public hearings by the township council, township land use board property is subject to a redevelopment plan which is the zoning specific for this property.
Um again that uh redevelopment area redevelopment plan adopted in 2021 again after public hearings at both the township council and at the uh land use board. The project itself is a fourstory
multif family residential building. 27 total residential units including importantly six affordable housing units that are already included in your third round housing element fair share which is to say that these six affordable
housing units count towards your 10-year obligation to provide affordable housing that has already ended. Right? So the project isn't built, but these housing units are required to satisfy a round that is already closed. So we make sure that we to provide that.
>> Can you just back up a second, Matt? So you see the original redevelopment was approved in 2018. >> The property was originally designated area needed redevelopment in 2018. >> 2018. Okay. And could you >> 2018? >> Could you also kind of give us a little bit of background? There have been
changes in the COA requirements and how they were normally handled. Um we are in a round three but we go back to when this started things were a lot were a bit different. Perhaps
give a quick brush stroke on that for the public. Uh certainly and and obviously you know your planner Jessica Caldwell has taken you through the grounds and is an expert in uh with respect to affordable housing. But just a very brief primer, we are currently
today sitting in the beginning of the round four affordable housing obligation of every municipality in the state of New Jersey. Affordable housing has been determined to be a constitutional obligation of every municipality to provide in the state of New Jersey.
Whether you are an urban municipality, a rural municipality, a coastal municipality, anything in between, every municipality in New Jersey has an obligation to provide. Round four, which started in middle of 2025,
that's the process that you're in now. It will govern the number of units that you have to provide that are affordable from mid 2025 to mid 2035. Think of every round as a 10-year period where you are in the process. Now, you
have adopted a fourth round housing element fair share plan. It is publicly available. I was actually just reading it with another resident uh just a few minutes ago. And that sets forth the number of units that you need to provide that are affordable units over the next
10-year period through zoning, through development, through redevelopment. Round three, which is the prior 10-year period from 2015 to 2025, has a separate uh numeric obligation
that the township has to provide in terms of affordable housing units. You had over 300 close to 400 affordable housing units that you had to provide or zone for in your round three obligation. You have another 233
or so units that you need to provide via round for over the next 10-year period. My point in raising the affordable housing obligation here is simply to say that this project and the six units that are included in this project are in your
round three number. These are units that will satisfy your round three obligation which you have not yet satisfied. These do not count towards your round four obligation. However, if you did not have these ready to go,
your round four number would have been higher because you would have carried over basically the detriment of affordable housing numbers in round three into round four. You got credit for these units in round three, even though they're not built because there
is an area need of redevelopment and because there is a redevelopment plan that calls for this project that provides the six units that need to be built. Great. Thank you. >> Sure. Certainly. Um and again, 27 units including the allimportant fixed
affordable housing units, 12 one-bedroom units, 12 two-bedroom units, and three three-bedroom units, along with a host of typical amenities that we would expect in a project like this, gym, community room, outdoor grill area, etc.
The township land use board granted preliminary site plan approval for this project. Um in 2025, two meetings, May and June, public meetings. Uh they granted preliminary site plan approval. Township of land use board then provided
final site plan approval for this project at a meeting in August of 2025 and then memorialized in September of 2025. So this project in terms of what it is, what it looks like, how big it is, etc. All of that A was already set
by by the zoning via the redevelopment plan and B has been approved by the Township land use board over four public meetings um earlier this year. Cost approximately $10 million to build this project. That's $9.3 million certified
by an architect in an application that's been submitted to the governing body and is available to the public. Um and the rest are financing costs. The project's being financed 43% with equity and the balance 57% via 30-year
bank loan. I will tell you that that is a very high equity number and a low bank loan number. We'll talk a little bit more about why that is in a minute, but in short, this is a small project with thin financials. And as a result, a bank wouldn't lend the traditional 70% on
this project. they wouldn't get the uh debt service coverage ratios that they need in order to make a loan uh on a project like this. The redeveloper has made an application to the township for a long-term tax exemption and a payment of an annual
service charge or what is more commonly referred to as a pilot. Uh the tax exemption and the payment of the annual service charge are authorized by the local uh by the excuse me long-term tax exemption law which gives this governing
body the ability by state statute to award the tax exemption and award the annual service charge or the again the pilot. The application was filed on October 8th. Statutoily, once the application is filed, the mayor has 60
days to provide a recommendation letter to the governing body, which he has had done already. You all have a copy of that. Um, when a redeveloper files an application for a pilot, we don't just say yes and we don't just award a pilot
at the number that the redeveloper asks you, right? We undertake the township undertakes a due diligence process of the project of the financials to understand a whether a pilot is necessary at all because sometimes it's
not and b if the pilot is necessary what is the appropriate payment amount that the redeveloper should be making via that um pilot. So to that end, the township engaged the services of its own independent municipal adviser, Phoenix Adviserss.
And incidentally, I believe Brian Morris is excellent. Brian Morris from Phoenix Adviserss is uh on the Zoom. >> We've gone through this process before with other pilots. Know you're familiar with the uh due diligence and the undertaking that Phoenix um does, but I
want to go through it one more time just for the benefit of everybody here, including certainly the public. So, Phoenix Advisors takes a look at the project as a whole and particularly the project perform the financials. They're
looking at construction cost numbers, right? That $9.9 million, $10 million construction cost number. Is that an accurate number to build this type of project in this area of New Jersey? Is it inflated? Is it too low? Right? Are there red flags somewhere in the
construction cost numbers to validate the construction cost numbers? One of the things they're trying to do. Um, second thing, operating expense numbers, right? We we need to know how much it costs to build, but we also need to know how much it costs to run a building like this year-over-year, amenities, services,
debt service, obviously the tax burden, etc. And then finally, the rental assumptions, right? What is the developer assuming they can get from rents in this project? And of course, what we are we on the township side are trying to protect against are
construction cost estimates too high, uh operating expense estimates that are too high and rental estimates that are too low, right? because those three things in that fashion paint a worse financial picture which makes it look
like the developer may need a pilot more than they actually do. So the first thing that Phoenix does is right set those numbers to make sure that we buy the construction cost numbers or we adjust them accordingly. We buy the operating expense numbers or we adjust them accordingly and we're comfortable
with their rent numbers or we adjust them accordingly. Once we go through that process, we have a full understanding of what the what we'll say the real the viable financial proform of the project looks like. And from that
financial snapshot, we can determine whether or not the project produces a sufficient internal rate of return to warrant investment by a the developer and that 43% equity and equally if not more importantly a bank who at the end
of the day has to be comfortable and uh with the financials to provide a loan otherwise the project does not get built. Right? without the construction loan, without the equity willing to be invested, this project does not get built.
If we get to that point where at conventional taxes we realize the project cannot be built, we cannot get the returns that the bank and the equity investors need, then we look to the pilot. At that point, we looked to the pilot.
In this particular case, looking at all of that due diligence and analysis, Phoenix concluded that without the pilot, the project cannot afford to be constructed. And of course, they've prevented, they've prepared a memo that you have that actually details um their
conclusions. They did note, I just want to pull one line out of that report that said under a conventional tax scenario, the project does not produce sufficient cash flow to generate reasonable financial returns. If you think of an internal rate of
return, generally for projects like this in the neighborhood of 7 to 12%, seven at the very low end, 12 at the higher end, this particular project, if conventionally taxed, has an internal rate of return of 5%. So significantly lower than the lowest
metric um used. As a result, the redeveloper has requested a payment in lie of tax, 10% of annual gross revenue in years 1 through six, 11% of annual gross revenue in years 7 through 11, 12% of annual
gross revenue in years 12 through 16, and 13% of annual gross revenue in years 17 to 30. Now, a couple things here. First, annual gross revenue is just that. It is gross revenue. When I talked earlier about how we care about
operating expenses, that's only to determine what the pilot is, whether or not it's valid. But when we compute how much the township gets paid in a pilot, that percentage of annual gross revenue that we receive as a tax payment, it is
on gross revenue. At that point, we do not care about operating expenses. So, in a project like this, what is gross revenue? It's obviously rental revenue. It is pet um charges, right? They, you know, they charge $500 if you want to
have a pet in the apartment, that is revenue. If they charge parking, if they charge storage fees, cleanup fees, basically, if they sell it or rent it inside that inside that building, it is a gross revenue to the project. that is
the percentage that we get the township gets a cut of as its annual service charge payment in lie of conventional taxes. The other thing I want to note is that the statutory minimum percentage circ certain certain extenduating
circumstances is 10%. So the 10% in years 1 through six in the schedule that I just mentioned is the lowest pilot percentage statutoily that you can accept. But as you heard, this number goes up every several years all the way
up to 13%. And finally, this developer is the same developer that did the Theta project and we went through this same discussion and this same analysis, right? This whole um statutory process, legislative process, due diligence process with Brian Morris
with the um with the theta process with the theta project. That project has a pilot schedule that is exactly the same as this one. However, in that schedule, in that project, the developer originally came to us with a much more
beneficial pilot schedule for the developer. And it was through the due diligence process and through Phoenix Advisor's uh due diligence that we concluded that a a pilot yes was warranted but b that the pilot could be
higher to the township than what was originally proposed by the by the redeveloper. At these particular pilot terms the 10 11 12 and 13% the internal rate of return ends up at 8%.
So just above that low threshold of 7% in of 7 to 12%. In addition to the pilot payment that the gross revenue, the developer will also pay an annual administrative fee to the township equal to 2% of the amount
of the annual service charge. So, you're going to get the pilot and you're going to get an amount equal to 2% of the pilot every single year as an administrative charge, which is largely meant to offset the burden to your tax assessor, etc.'s office for having to add a line item onto the bill. You know,
make sure it's um it's ultimately don't. This project, this property currently pays about $3,800 in total real estate taxes, which leads to about $900 annually to the township. First year project revenue to the
township is approximately $73,000 once the project is built. And over the 30-year term, the township is forecasted to receive approximately $3.7 million in pilot and annual service charge pilot
and uh administrative fee revenue. That is net of 5% of the pilot that is required to go to the um to the county. When Phoenix does their analysis, they not only look at whether or not the
project warrants a pilot, but if so, what that pilot should be, but they also look at your cost of constituent services as a result of this project. Now, this is obviously a small project, right, in the grand scheme of things. Nonetheless, we still look at um
what the c what the project will do to your township budget, for example, right? Will this require an additional DPW uh worker? Will this require additional police or fire? You know, what will this do to your fund of constituent services? And Phoenix had
concluded that it's a nominal increase, right? I mean, you have a this is a.3% increase to the population. Um it's has a nominal impact on on your cost of constituent services project. That's going to produce 50 to 60, you know,
total residents, right? added to the um added to the population here. The uh project also produces construction jobs, right? Approximately 29 construction jobs, 14 full-time jobs. And the developer has provided analysis
that talks about additional um tax benefit, you know, local benefit, right? The additional residents to to uh to businesses uh etc. Procedurally, the redeveloper has made an application as required by the
long-term tax exemption law. The mayor has made his reformationation letter and made it available to the township council, which is also required. >> Um, we have negotiated the term of this agreement. The pilot would last for 30 years. That is done to match the term of
the construction loan, which is also 30 years and is also typical for a project, a redevelopment project of this type. Term of the financial agreement itself is 35 years. The term of the pilot is 30 years.
The reason that's done is the pilot starts at completion of construction right at cert at at issuance of the first certificate of occupancy. That is not today, right? This project still needs to get financing. It still needs to get any final other approvals beyond
the local ones, the township approvals. It may be in the ground in six months. In fact, that's why we're here tonight, honestly. They want to be in the ground in six months, but it takes 18 to 24 months to build something like this, right? So, you've got a three-year lead
time before a certificate of occupancy and you start charging the pilot. In the meantime, the property continues to pay conventional taxes, by the way. But that two three-year period is part of the five-year difference between the 30-year
term of the pilot and the 35 year of the um of the agreement. What we don't want, if the term of both were 30 years, then in reality, you would only receive 27 years worth of pilot payments, right? Because you'd have a three-year construction period and the term of your
agreement would end 27 years later. you want the benefit because it is a significant municipal financial benefit to receive the pilot for the full 30-year term. So, the total term of the financial agreement itself is 30 years, but the term of the 35 years, excuse me,
but the term of the pilot is um is 30 years. Finally, you have the ordinance on before you tonight which would approve the tax exemption and authorize the execution of the financial which again memorializes the terms of the
pilot as we've laid them out for you um here tonight. And so before I turn it uh I guess back, let me just ask the council whether you have any questions and then I certainly would like to see whether Brian Morris has anything that he would want to add to what has already
been said. >> Council, if the project goes forward and 10 years into it, it's not financially viable to the builder. They can't get enough tenants. They have to bring the rent down.
What what happens at that point in time? It just goes into bankruptcy and then turns into a free-for-all. What what uh what goes on? >> Well, I think there's there might be two different things that I heard in that question. So, let me try and make sure I
un understood the question first. Um in the event that the project is constructed and several years from now it doesn't have tenants, it has to lower rent. If lowering rent changes occupancy, right, obviously the project
keeps going and your pilot is a percentage of those rents, right? So if the project struggles, the pilot number will be less. If the project succeeds, then the pilot revenue will be more. It's actually not unlike a traditional
commercial building, right? Which is assessed basically based on income. If the project does so poorly that they have to close, right, that they cannot get any tenants to rent at any rent level that makes sense in the building,
then yeah, they would declare bankruptcy. They would try and sell it to another developer, another, you know, owner occupier. They would try to do something with it. Importantly, the pilot runs with the land. So if you did
have a sale for example or another transfer, the pilot continues to run with the project. >> Well, the terms of the agreement 55 and over building for example that's under construction almost done 10 years down
the road is not financially viable. That 55 and over be done away with it and then it's open to any age person or does that 55 and over always stay in that pilot program? So, if you have a 55 and older project that is deed restricted, which is done to satisfy your affordable
housing obligation, that deed restriction in round three and prior, is a 30-year deed restriction. Um, it's a 40-year deed, which is going to be in round four. So, any of your new projects that have any affordable housing deed restriction, including one that says it
has to be 55 and older, because you get bonus credits if you do a 55 project. uh the deed restriction would last for 40 years. So in that circumstance, hard to imagine if that circumstance could somebody try and I guess condemn
the deed restriction and try and get out of it. Maybe never seen that before. Um but as a general matter, the deed restriction would survive and so the next property owner would be taking that property subject to the same deed restriction. >> Okay. on the >> can I jump in uh real quick just to um
>> yes >> expand uh thank you to expand on that first question and and hi everyone Brian Morris Phoenix Adviserss sorry I couldn't be there in person uh just to go back to your first question uh we the pilot also uh has kind of a two-prong uh
calculation um there's also a phasing in of a percentage of conventional taxes over the 30-year period so that kind of uh works as a floor for the township to ensure that you won't get less than a certain percentage of taxes even if the
rents essentially went to zero. So just so you you know those those phasins were negotiated um very aggressive to the township's benefit. So really for the last 15 years or 16 years or so uh excuse me or 14
years or so of the pilot uh they essentially have to pay at least 60 or 80% of conventional taxes. So to your point, if 20 years down the road, you know, just take an extreme example, they can't rent them at all, but they don't go bankrupt for whatever reason, they
would still be paying that 60 or 80% of taxes. Each year, the township would say, what number is larger, X% of their revenue or X% of conventional taxes? >> Okay. The second question was, is it proportionately
divided? The 27 unit building that we're voting on tonight for the uh low-income housing, is it one, two, and three bedrooms, or is it all going to be applied to a three-bedroom or all the two or is it uh not uh >> Oh, the affordable housing units in particular. >> Yes.
>> Right. So there is a requirement with any affordable housing project that of the affordable units at least 20% have to be threebedrooms not more than 20% can be onebedrooms and
the rest can be a mix of twos or obviously threes. So in this case we have six affordable housing units at least 20% 1.2 two, which is two units have to be um have to be three bedrooms. Not more
than 20% again 1.2 you have to round down. So not more than one unit can be a onebedroom and the others can be two bedrooms. >> Okay? >> And that's that that 20 and and um remainder applies for any affordable
housing project. See I'm just >> the difference in total income to the township via
u affordable housing. I'm sorry, via the u >> traditional taxation versus a payment in L taxes. How do we handle that? Or not handle, but how do we come out at the end of the the program?
>> Well, you're currently receiving the township is currently receiving $900, right, >> in tax revenue off this property, right? $900 for the next 30 years. Let's say increasing at 2% a year. I don't have that number. It's not a very
>> 38,000. There you go. Ryan had $38,000 in conventional tax revenue to the township if you don't move forward with this project. >> Right. >> If you move forward with this project with the pilot, you're looking at $3.7 million over the same 30-year period.
>> Thank you. So there there is a tax obligation from the time the the owner uh takes ownership and has its occupancy permit to the end of the agreed upon uh
time limit for the for the program. >> Correct. They'll pay conventional taxes from now until the certificate of occupancy for the building. Then for the next 30 years, they'll pay the pilot and the administrative fee. And then once the 30 years are over, the project will
come back on the and the convent the the uh the construction loan has been repaid of that 30-year term, the same time the property goes back to paying conventional taxes. Is there any point during the amortization schedule when
the township can approach the owner and say, you know, some these are coming out of whack where we really need to re calculate something. Are there periods in there when they there can be readjustments? >> No, the the term is 30 years pilot. But
I think what Brian mentioned earlier is important, right? Your pilot is a percentage of revenues, right? So it rises as rents go up. >> Okay, >> your percentage goes your uh your pilot goes up. In addition, every several years, the percentage of revenues that
you get goes up, right? It goes from 10% to 11% to 12 to 13. And then as Brian mentioned, you are in the back 15 years. You are always evaluating what is higher 20 40 60 80% of
conventional taxes or the pilot the percentage of gross revenue. If at some point the 20 40 60 80% of conventional taxes is higher than the pilot, the developer pays the higher number as a pilot. Importantly, you still get to
keep 95% of that number, right? >> But that is the sort of protection against lower rents and lower revenues because you have the 20 40 60 80 that as Brian mentioned is aggressive. >> If for some reason that happens, it's
only a township making that request. >> It's not even a request. I mean, it's contract. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's contractual obligation. Good. Thank you. >> Matt, can you just touch on we we had this discussion um quite a bit when we
were in executive session. The um I guess the estimates or the um yeah, I guess estimates of school children that were were conducted for the project. Talked about that and there was some you
had some information about what those estimates were and you had some professional um information for that. Can you touch on that real quick? Uh uh certainly and that actually comes that's part of Brian Morris's analysis. >> Okay. So maybe Brian can do that. >> Yes. Do you want me to take that one? >> Yeah. And explain how how you came to
that. That would be helpful. >> Uh sure. Yeah. Thank you. Um so so Ruckers, the Blousein School of Planning and Public Policy puts out um studies periodically uh based on housing trends in the state. So they produce
essentially um you know average demographic multipliers that essentially you know it gets into a lot of detail but for the most part it says if you have affordable housing three bedrooms in North Jersey produces x amount of kids per unit uh per unit um you know a
regular market rate twobedroom in South Jersey produces y amount. So, we use those um catered towards this project and to the township of course. Um and based on those multipliers, the 27 units with the current bedroom count and affordable mix that we already spoke
about uh would produce about eight kids. Um, so what we then do to those eight children is apply the cost of classroom instruction as reported by the DOE and
by the local school district, which is a little under uh 13,000 per kid. Uh, the reason we use the cost uh the cost of classroom instruction is because that doesn't include, you know, um administration salaries. It doesn't
include the building upkeep, the utility bills, etc. because it's not like we're building a new school for the eight kids. It's really just capturing the cost of teachers and classroom supplies. Um, so if we extrapolate that out, the
cost uh could potentially be up to $96,000 uh to educate those children. Now, I always say, you know, these numbers are intentionally conservative. um you know, given that there's eight kids spread across 12 grades, you know,
it's unlikely even that they'd have to hire new staff or um you know, the the enrollment fluctuates, you know, year in year out, um naturally, you know, buy, you know, more than eight kids. So um you know I
think that that number is pretty conservative but that's generally the methodology um you know that we um that we employ just to to put forth kind of a a reasonable you know conservative estimate as to the potential cost. >> Okay. Thanks Brian. I I will comment I
think Bill you were on the school board with me when we did the the census and the first time the census was done. Were you on the school board then too when we wanted to see what the like the projection for like a 10-year enrollment would be? >> Yeah. Right. >> And do you remember eerily how accurate
they were? on the mic >> twice the you know so um we I'm sure you've heard we were all school board members except for Jessica in the past and >> twice the school board contracted with a company to to projections for school um
enrollment numbers and uh and they were eerily accurate like I think within 10 I mean it was so um so it is I uh I kind of trust the numbers that but thank you And sorry, I just want to because I know
some people are worried about the payment we receive and the cost of services going up. That's already been analyzed. And it's not like this is a fixed percent. It is a fixed percentage, but if the building makes more money, we also make more money. So, as rents go up, we make >> right
>> more of that rent that has gone. >> I'm not sure everybody understands that based on the emails I've been getting. >> Yes. your pilot is equal to a percentage of gross revenue. >> Yeah. >> So, a if gross revenue goes up because
rents go up and or the other charges that are part of that gross revenue, again, pet fees, parking fees, storage fees. If any of those go up, your pilot payment goes up. In addition, if those numbers stay flat, your percentage of
those gross revenues also goes up over time from 10% to 13%. So if revenue stayed dead flat for 30 years, if none of our living expenses went up for the next 30 years, >> your pilot would still go up by virtue
of those percentages going from 10 up to 13%. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. Also, being that I'm on the planning board, the land use, these are the drawings that were handed out to us at the meetings that you had mentioned twice in the summer and twice later on
when we voted to go forward. And just for clarification, this building is right behind here. This is not the one out on 515. It's not the 99, you know, apartments, the three buildings. Nothing to do with that. It's a small area back here, less than an acre of property. And
the only real concerns after the design and the fitting in with the decor of the area was is there enough parking? And the way they do the calculations and they bring experts to the board, it was 1.4 cars per apartment. That's what they figure on. We know that some apartments
have two cars, some might have three, some might have one. And uh so my only concern there was there could be some people parking on the street if somebody has a party or whatever. Maybe it's a revenue generator for the municipality. We can rent out spaces back here. I
don't know. But uh the building itself is a uh a well-designed building and it's only 27 apartments and it's and it's on and it's going to uh provide u gallons for the MUA.
>> We're paying more per gallon for the sewage because of the plant was done years ago or not done years ago and we're paying that price now. So this gives more use to our obligation to the county users. So it
>> relief to the users that are currently you know use on the MUA and it lowers >> it provides relief to the users that are currently um you know paying higher rates for sure >> right helps to lower their rates >> and helps our local businesses too.
>> Yeah it does factor. >> Thank you. >> Thanks a lot Matt. >> Thank you. Thank you Matt here. And thanks Martin. >> Thank you. Stay right here. >> I'll ask for a motion to open the
meeting to the public for >> I'll make that motion. >> Motion made by Mrs. Bucheri. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by Mr. Higgins. Uh all in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> Opposed. Motion carries. Uh
the public is invited to come forward if we have any questions or comments. And uh Mr. Jessup will be here as well to entertain any questions. >> Good evening, Dorian Edwards.
Well, while I'm not opposed to affordable housing and redevelopment, I am opposed to this specific project. Um there are some great issues. I read over the financial agreement. There's no
good clauses to protect Vernon and the taxpayers like you said is can you renegotiate? No, you can't. You have to do it here and now. We have to protect ourselves for our our future. Um this here,
okay? Um I wanted to ask a specific question. Okay. It's about CPIs. And I guess you should all know what that means, right? If you're sitting up there and you reviewed everything, payments are fixed for 30 years.
Inflation alone will erode the real value of these payments. While costs for schools, emergency services, pensions, and health insurance will continue to rise. The town could be paying much more in services than it collects. We all know the value of the dollar will probably go down over time. We've seen
that. Eventually, we we won't be making a lot on a dollar, pennies on a dollar. Question to the council and the well, the missing attorney. Uh, how does locking the town into a fixed payment for 30 years protect taxpayers when inflation will steadily reduce the value
of these payments? And, um, I have to ask for clarification. So, I looked online, it said that we had three minutes to speak and now there was a piece of paper on the desk said five minutes. I'm glad it was changed because the fact is it's a
public hearing. That's different than public comment. Public hearing you really even shouldn't have a time limit on it. That kind of defeats the whole purpose, right? So, um I just wanted to say that as well. And I hope you will allow the people who have really good
comments and questions and concerns. >> I'll just do their comments if they happen to run o. >> Thank you. >> That's my ask. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, so I don't know if there's going to be any back and forth. I don't really know how you plan on doing this.
Um, there's many concerns in regards to this um, financial agreement. Why why did they want to do apartments? Why couldn't they have done condos? This way that fair share would have been equitable upon the owners and the town residents. >> Excuse me.
>> I understand your comment, >> but that ship has already sailed. We've it's been the the land use board made their approval on the existing program that's being presented >> apartments. >> So it's apartments and that's where it
is. >> All right. So but why 30 years? >> Why should we give a tax reduction? >> It's not a reduction. >> Well, it's an exemption. Yes, it is. >> No, it's not. It is an exemption. Like the comment that we had that I asked the
attorney on just before was over the course of this particular program. How much does the township make traditionally and how much does it make if we go with the uh with the uh pilot
program? And with the there's a feast to the township of about 373 $3.7 million. Well, that's one calculation. There's other calculations that have been done saying eventually it's going
to cost us$1 something million. I forget the exact amount, but I guess it depends on if you're only thinking eight students. If he's saying 13,000 to educate a student, not including administration, why wouldn't you include
administration? It takes $25,000 per student in Vernon. We know that. So why wouldn't you consider that? That just doesn't make sense. >> The the way you're figuring that supposes that every time a student comes
in, you're looking at $25,000 being added to the cost. But if that student comes in and moves into a particular classroom where a uh the child is educated, we're we're not
bringing on additional uh you know supervision. We're not bringing on additional uh teachers because we're just adding one to the total. So you can't use that type of a a
a figure. What that figure is is simply the division of the total number of students >> uh into costs. >> I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. And all the costs >> into all the costs. Exactly.
>> Take out the fixed costs like the building, the administration, the heat, the electric, the buses. Like you have to take all the fixed costs here on the building. >> As a matter of fact, >> but you have to take out all there's actually another figure that the state has which is 10. I really >> no as a matter of fact
>> about >> what you're looking at the more students you would bring in >> the more that number would go down because you're you know it becomes a function of uh you know dividing the number of students into the total cost
that number is going to drop as you increase the total number of students but what we're looking at here is just the uh the operational effect you're bringing in approximately, you know,
mathematically they they always talk and you know, I always wonder where they get the half cars on some of these things, but it it's simply a case that, you know, if you're going to be bringing in eight more students, we don't know where those eight students are going to go.
Depends upon the any number of issues, >> right? and we don't know if there's going to be any uh students that need special education services, right? >> Could also drive up the cost. >> So, you know, it's it's it's um there's a lot of things that are opened and I
ask that the town council, some of you have financial degrees and financial backing that you think could do to our town going forward and renegotiate. If you feel you must pass it, don't do it
as it is. You have to renegotiation renegotiate it and make sure that you're covering your constituents, the ones that we voted for you to represent us in the right way. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And I'd like to come back.
>> I'm sorry. >> I just want to clarify as far as the the minutes go. So the the public um number five the p the ordinance public hearing that is a three minute time frame and then public comment is a second public comment and that is a five
minute time frame. So you do have another another time Dorene. So the first one is three and then the second one is five. So I just wanted to clarify that for everybody. I'll give it >> anyone else wishing to come forward. Yes, please.
>> And they just a question the five. >> Yeah, the second the second public comment is a fivem minute time frame and the first public comment is free and we do try to keep to the time just to be fair to every person in the public who wants to come up and speak >> after the votes. after the after the
public hearing. Right now, we're in the public hearing for the ordinance. So, this is regarding the the pilot ordinance. So, it's strictly that topic. The second public comment is any topic. >> Yes, sir. >> Good afternoon.
>> Sorry. >> Uh, good afternoon. My name is Alton Kell and Al Kell. >> Anthony. >> Al. Okay. and I live at 26 Mountain Avenue, Highland Lakes. I got prepared
and have been a resident of Burn since I was three. Uh I'm here to vote voice support for the pilots. Um I have numbers for the council to consider. In 1980 for the census, Bernon
had roughly 6,000 residential units. In 2000, we had roughly 10,000. Guess how many we have as of 2020? >> 10,400, >> which is pretty crazy. >> So, some of that is due to the Highlands
Preservation Act, >> right? But um like a role in this absolutely is uh previous administration's not actively developing previously zoned uh commercial tracks as efficiently as they
could. So enrollment in the schools district circuit 2004 was 5600 or 5,500. As of 2025, it's 20 2900
>> 22,000. >> No, 2,900. >> Sorry. >> 2,900. >> 900. Thank you. >> So, enrollment got cut in half. >> And we don't know if all of those 2,900 are going to Vernon schools.
>> These are the number of students going to Vernon. >> Well, that's enrollment. Enrollment. Yeah. >> Yeah. Vernon Township School District. >> Yeah, those are accurate. We're 5,597. We're at 2950 now. >> That's how in 2019 when I was a senior
entire wings of the school. >> We still have six buildings. >> So in the process, our district's budget has been eviscerated because uh state aid the funding formula changed from
Corsine and Chrissy and Murphy. Now it's so majority based on enrollment numbers. So it's kind of the reason why the bud budget has been having such a bad shortfall in recent years. Uh the median age in this town has gone from 30 to
1990 to 45 as of 20 to 2020. So the town is aging and culprit is policy failure of those uh and track mostly for keeping the state affordable. Home prices have gone from medium of 12
median value of 125,000 in 201 uh 11 to 325,000 as of today. All this due to the failure of this state to build like we used in America. So people like me who have graduated
high school and uh college make a decent wage can't afford a h house in this town anymore. And why should we buy a place in this town in the first place? We have no business district, no downtown, spare restaurants, and not a center nucleus
even like towns next door like Warick. It really sucks when I have to drive an hour to go anywhere to have fun somewhere else. >> Thank you. So improving pilots show that burden is
open for businesses jump start in the town center and will make it more likely for future developments and businesses pop up under potential property tax structures. We're not talking about section 8 projects and way beyond the state park. We're talking about fourstory apartment buildings and areas that have been zoned residential for the
last 30 years. >> Thank you. >> Uh appreciate it. >> You're welcome to come back later. >> Sounds good. >> Yes. be nice after >> there's an agenda right on the table
here. You can take >> um I thought five minutes was before voting >> agenda on that paper on that table. You can take it. >> Um can I request to do the five minutes now and that >> there's an agenda. There's an order. Oh, I'd like to do this voting. >> We have your name, please.
>> Jackie. >> Jackie. >> Well, I'll fly through this and do the rest later then if I can't get in. >> Members of the town council. I'm here tonight as a taxpayer, a resident, and someone with nearly 20 years of experience in auditing, finance, and corporate real estate. I've been
directly hired by corporate real estate trusts and worked on contract with large developers and real estate teams. I don't consider myself a financial genius, and I avoid the word expert. It tends to inflate egos, and in this business, there's always more to learn. But I am credentialed, experienced, and qualified to raise the concerns I'm
raising tonight. The agreement before you locks the town into a 30-year term with no renegotiation clause and no CPI adjustment. Protections most municipal attorneys, especially in rural towns, would require. Over time, costs will rise, services will get more expensive,
and infrastructure will age, placing the financial risk squarely on the residents. How many of us here, including myself and likely many of you, would like to freeze our taxes for the next 30 years? I certainly would, but we don't have in between those cycles, families absorb
school tax hikes and rising municipal costs. We live, work, and volunteer here. And if anyone deserves protection, it's the people who carry this town, not a private developer. >> In a rural town without a large commercial base, mistakes in long-term deals appear years later when options are limited and leverage is gone. An
attorney, respectfully, um, an attorney specializing in long-term tax abatements plays an important role, but legal approval does not mean a deal is financially sustainable. A finance professional test assumptions, analyzes long-term risk, and determines who bears the cost. Both perspectives are
essential but not interchangeable. The lender on this project is requiring roughly 43% which is far above the typical 20 to 30%. That signals the bank views this project as high risk and the underwriter's duty is to protect the bank's capital just as your duty is to
safeguard taxpayer money. I want to acknowledge this council's past diligence most recently in reviewing the numbers behind the garbage compactor. That same careful scrutiny need is needed here given the scale and long-term consequences of this agreement. This is not about delay for
delay's sake. It's about getting it right. If a developer walks away because the town asks for reasonable protections or renegotiation, that is not the town blocking development is declining a deal it cannot responsibly accept. Denying or tableabling a long-term tax abatement is
not grounds for a successful lawsuit. Builder's remedy cases are difficult to win, especially when a municipality documents good faith efforts to renegotiate or show terms are not fiscally reasonable. As written, these terms are not fiscally reasonable. While I'm not a lawyer, I consulted with a
partner that I have worked with for many, many years at Freed Frank, a top tier national real estate law firm, who confirmed everything I am saying in this assessment, and I'm confident attorneys in this room can attest that this is correct. I want to be very clear, this is not a mayoral attack. I voted for our mayor knowing I wouldn't agree with
every decision, but trusting I would agree with many. This matter comes down to responsibility, and given my professional background and understanding of this agreement, I cannot reasonably agree with it. People in this town are already stretched thin. School tax increases have put families to the edge.
>> Thank you. >> Can you finish up quickly? >> They're being priced out. Young families are questioning whether they can stay. Maybe the council isn't ready to scrap the pilot entirely, but I urge you to reconsider approving this long-term abatement as written. If you can't vote
no, then abstain, take a capital planning risk analyst whose specialty is long-term municipal risk and at least renegotiate the terms that the town can actually live with. Two final points must be st. I apologize if this is
wrong. I'm going off what I saw on our financial agreement and the information I had. The listed financial advisor, Phoenix Financial, has documented SEC violations and a guilty charge in New Jersey. >> Excuse me.
>> Can you wrap this up, please? >> Yes, I I am. >> No, I mean, >> yes. The woman speak not pursue minor issues. Their involvement signals serious compliance failures. As an auditor, I am very
familiar with their enforcement. The developer behind this project and the pilot has pleaded guilty to bribery of elected officials and has a long publicly documented history of violations and legal trouble, including jail time for one of the founding partners. We cannot be intimidated by
their scare tactics or polished presentations. The developers rely on that disengagement and lack of information. We supported you. We put you in these seats and we are asking you to support us. We are not asking you to move mountains. We are asking you to slow this down, which is very little of
the council, only that you allow legal counsel and a qualified financial analyst to review the agreement, strengthen the terms, and bring it back in the new year with confidence. >> Thank you. >> You have the legal authority to pause. You have the legal protection to say no, and you have a legal and ethical
responsibility under oath you took to protect the people who live here. That responsibility is what I hope guides your decision tonight. And Mr. suggests anything tonight that is even accurate or reasonably correct which I know it is. You are legally required as the
attorney to inform this council of these material risks before any decision is made. >> Thank you very My name is Marty. Who can follow that? Just thought it is assumed the pilot is better than the amount of money we
collect whether it was 23,000 I forget per year on the vacant land. However, receiving that small amount is guaranteed with no municipal cost. Obviously in comparison uh
as mentioned in passing edge roads emergency services water sewage and school cost which could be more than what was said. It was also considered whether these expenses can legally exceed the New Jersey 2% cap
which I don't understand too by myself. And of course cover uh uh other expenses because there's no uh idea about the need for the adjustment of cost for inflation. So
the question is why would the town risk decades of potential losses when vacant land provides guaranteed lowcost revenue? Just food for thought. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Wow. Ann Larson from Vernon. Uh there's
so much there's so much joy out there and I blame Jackie for the wonderful job she did. Few things I wanted to touch on. I noticed that Mr. Trussa when he was speaking was not sporting. I caught several inaccuracies in what he commented on and I think going forward
you had to have these uh witnesses I yes be sworn in because there's no way that that the property taxes on a commercial building are are ranked with the the income it produces but the valuation doesn't change whether the building is empty or not. So that's at least one. I
don't know what kind of guidance we're getting. We're not getting good guidance. Okay. And go from there. Okay. Has ties to organized crime to the Leazi crime family. Okay. Among the things he was charged with is money laundering, bid rigging, siphoning
millions from construction projects, uh bribery again, and other schemes to to to siphon millions from construction projects. So, we have a less than stellar entity right on our hands. I don't know who was in the room negotiating, but if they were there and
our neophite was there, our neopight has checked history as far as financial issues go. There are bankruptcies, there's foreclosures, there's mortgage modifications on a $74,000 loan. These are not financial gurus that should by any stretch be making decisions that
impact us for 30 years. the mention of the birth of $3,000 in um in taxes that the that the entity is paying on vacant land. I paid just about that for one quarter. Here we are selling out the whole township. These people have paid a few quarters of taxes in this town.
That's wrong. That's definitely wrong. Okay? Your weight should be with us, not with them. The prospect of them doing this is is ridiculous. Furthermore, many other towns are being sued over over pilot programs. Montlair is being sued at the moment. They have a 19 to20
million dollar border debt deficiency thanks to the pilot program. Kennalon however has a dollar fordoll um I guess repayment from the builder paying for the cost of the board of edit for every student that goes to the schools. Okay. So other people manage to get money.
We're always why are we always on the the dirty side of the stick? Always. It never works well. Clark will share the pilot program with the board of the board of ed $55,250. Princeton is contributing $300 to $500,000 in loans. Okay. The the rentals
for these properties that they're speaking of a studio rent at 2660. This project is predicated on failure. The rates will not be sustainable. The project will be empty and then of course our our income will pay down. There is no there is no but I could find and I
went through it more than once. I see no default penalty. There's no acceleration where it turns to a full market rate assessments with these people who fall are delinquent. It doesn't mention a delinquency percentage if they're delinquent on their taxes. The same things are okay.
>> Thank you. >> I see you're trying to cut me off. I guess you think my three times is up. >> Time is up. >> Well, that's what I just asked. I will say no. >> Thank you very much. Good evening, guys. >> Um, for anybody in the audience that
doesn't know me, my name is Bruce Campbell. I own Bubbets Texas Wieners in town. Um, would I like to see more people come to the town to live? Sure. But at the same time, I don't want to see the town become a partner in a
housing development. But what I've heard tonight >> to the mic and people having trouble. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Um, what I heard tonight was stuff I didn't know in the past. Um, like I said, I'd like to see more people in the town, the
right people in the town, but at the same time, if the building's empty, by what I understand, you're getting less money. Unless that building's full, you're not getting a full share and good money.
So, I I think it's a matter of do we support it? You know, I kind of do because it's for me could be beneficial, but at the same time, I don't want to see I lived in this town for 35 years, too. I've had two businesses in town. My
wife had one in town, and I've now opened up another one. But I'd like to see the consideration of if the building is in full, what kind of money are you going to get? I mean, I didn't hear any rents this,
you know, I haven't heard how much the rents are going to be yet, >> but if we rent it out of consideration of people, I mean, I know rent is ridiculous, but I just want to make sure that the town doesn't get the short end as
somebody put it before because that's the last thing we need is to have another building. Like for years we had the white elephant down the road that was empty for how many years that I lived here. Now it's finally being used. That's the
whole thing. It's a place for people as long as we don't have any problems with it. I mean, I'd like I got questions on the building itself, but that's not for this meeting. I'd love to see plans for the building because being a past fireman and stuff, I'd love to see
exactly how they're going to build this building. I mean, Mr. Higgins said it was a beautiful building. That's great. But I'd love to see what the plans look like. But do I support it? On one hand, I do. Yes. On another hand, I just want
the board to make sure you protect the people of this town. Even though I don't live here anymore, I still feel part of this town. So, just do the right thing for the people because that's the way I was was
brought up in my town. If you're voted into a position, do you're voted in to protect the people. I don't care if it's Little Town, county, state, president. You're
elected for the people. We the people. You work for us. Thank you. It's that simple. Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to adjust the council? >> He dassi Glenwood. Uh, as a formal
council person, I will tell you I would vote no because this does not protect our taxpayers. This is to the benefit of the developer. after I had a lot a kink speech but a lot of the questions were answered by
the attorney so I will not ask my questions but what I will say is that he has proven to me that the entire pilot is speculation there are nothing in there that is
guaranteed and Vern and taxpayers will flush the bill in the long run we will end up with another letter >> where we are paying the tax bill on property and paying for students in our
school system and paying for the other municipal services when they default because they haven't been able to rent their building out. The master plan did require
the approval of this unit 27 build unit. That is true. But the master plan did not require that you provide financial assistance. This pilot program is a wrong thing.
I urge you >> anyone else wishing to come forward. Yes. >> Hi, I'm Sherman Ambulator. Uh I know there are different levels of belief in God or non not believe. I believe in God and I believe he's here and everything you say is heard by him. So I'm
wondering could I ask each of you to say that you are not accepting a bribe for any of this. >> Very very disconcerting. I I >> I mean it's rude but >> it's I think it's rude. >> It's very disconcerting. This company hasn't has worked with bribes with
>> it. It is funny, but I am absolutely not accepting a bribe. >> Yeah. >> Three crosses right now. Bring cross necklace. No bribe. I'm not accepting a bribe. Oh my gosh. Holy cow. >> Oh my gosh. Absolutely.
>> Thank you very much. >> Outrageous. >> You can't say it. You can't say it. >> Hey, thank you. >> Oh my gosh. >> Are you accepting one, Mr. Higgins? >> Not that I remember. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Oh my gosh.
>> Oh my goodness. >> Anyone else wishing to come forward? >> Hi, my name is Tracum and I live on M Drive. Um, I actually am just looking for some clarification in something that Mr. Brian Morris had stated before. So,
my understanding is the pilot is all 27 units. Is that correct? >> Yes, it's one building. >> Right. And the affordable housing units is only constituted to the six units. Is that correct? >> Right. >> Okay. So, when Mr. Brian Morris referred to the Rucker's data and using those
calculations to figure out eight estimated children. He stated that that was based on the affordable housing units. >> The whole building >> for the whole building, not just for affordable >> the whole building. He did say for the
>> clarify that housing units. So that's just where I wanted my >> Yeah, I mean >> Brian >> clarify total amount of >> Yeah, I apologize if I I misspoke or or didn't say anything correctly, but the eight students is for the entire
building of 27 units. I I may have just said that I may have just emphasized that it includes the affordables or there's different multipliers for the affordables. Each unit type has its own multiplier. >> The eight kids is for the full 27. >> Thanks, Brian. Okay. And just
clarification, um, when the lawyer was speaking, it's three threebedroom units within the 27 units that's being built. >> 12 threebedroom units, 12 twobedroom units, and the balance are onebedroom
units of 27. >> Matt, it's the other way, isn't it? 121, 12, and 33. >> Let's double check. Let's double check. was the other way around. >> 12 onebedroom units, 12 two-bedroom units, >> and three. You can't even
>> Well, I'm sorry. 1212 >> 33s. >> Yes. >> My name is Charles Smley. My name is Charles Magalia. I just had a couple of questions. Um I've known most of you guys. Some of you guys come to the board meetings. I'm on the quite a
bit. So a lot of my stuff wants to um pertain to that. But I wanted to just ask first if you guys can answer it maybe after I'm done is what the projection of filling these units. If we're looking at a percent of filling these units, what are they planning that they're going to have them filled by?
Are they five years, 10 years? If we're looking at the minimum, it's 60% I believe the number was and it's supposed to increase over the years, right? Are we looking at the 60% that we're only going to get paid or are we looking at a higher number? Right? Because we're looking at number money right now,
right? So, if we can get that um what is the what is the projection if of revenue if we don't go with this plan? What do we what is what what is the what what is it? What do we if we make go with the plan, how much we're going to make going
at the lowest number versus not going with the pilot program um for the for the units that were built already. How many of them are are already on track to being filled? Are we looking at they're not we're not even going to be halfway
occupied when they're completed finally? >> That would show us what is going to happen with these new units, right? Um, and then the numbers were eight students we said at $13,000 which I think they said 36 I'm sorry $96,000 which I think
it was just off 104 104 a teacher so there is a cost to this school district a huge cost I mean do we lose a school a teacher or how do we make up that extra revenue and where is that going to come from from the from the taxpayers right
So, and there's also restrictions on students, right? For some of our classrooms with special needs, can we if what if five of them are going into one classroom? All young couples come here, we're going to go into a classroom. That may push us over the limit. And if they
have special needs, pushes over the limit of students we're allowed to have in there legally. That means another classroom. If it's a classroom in Walnut Wallen Ridge where we don't have room, where are we going to put that? we have to now build another build an extension or go outside to get to get it. So
there's more cost than just the $13,000. So when you're doing this voting tonight, keep in mind that the number is low and we really will hurt our our school district if we're not looking at the school fully. >> Thank you. Thank you.
mic is really low. >> So, my name is Brian Fiser. I'm in Highland Lakes. I'm also a member of the board of ed. I listened to uh one of the gentlemen talk about a lack of development in the town. I also listened
to the revenue numbers, 38,000 versus 3.8 million. So I guess the question that I have that we have to ask as a town is do we really want to trade revenue for our rural taste of life? Is
that what we want to do? Um personally I would rather not. I would rather keep our life the way it is. I think CPI is also a real concern because the the cost of town services
will go up. Now the the agreement as I understand it is that we get a percentage of gross revenues. So that's a percentage of rents and whatever other cost. But because the developer has fixed costs in terms of his mortgage in
terms of this deal, he has no incentive to ever raise rent. So our percentage probably doesn't go up then or or uh his gross revenues doesn't go up. So our revenue doesn't go up as our costs go up.
>> Thank you. >> What else? Well, I'm short, so these mics approve. >> Me, too. >> Um, >> but standing tall. >> It's It's my It's my first chance to uh wish that everybody had a very good
Christmas and um uh I think this has been a a trying year for the town >> and I think >> Can you state your name, please? Peter Knight in Pleasant Valley Lakes. I think the mayor and the council have done a
very good job, but tonight's issue is about pilot program. And I think people mis understand a pilot program is meant uh as an enticement to to develop uh land
or property that there's little uh interest in or um uh thought of any future for it. It's an enticement and the terms of this pilot
as stated by the attorney um it it the finance for the uh um mortgage indicates that it's a a highly risk uh investment. Um,
I I don't understand why we would want to go with a 30-year commitment. The CPI is a is a a very important issue and uh I I think over 30 years um we would
find ourselves very much short of where we should be. I I'm all for um development. I I'd rather see much more mixed use development or commercial development right now. But we certainly
uh in my opinion don't need um just to add population for the sake of adding population. So thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak?
>> I'm short, too, so this is probably going to be really easy for me and I'm loud anyway. >> And Mr. Jessup, have you talked to your please? Patricia Heeney, have you talked to the council about shortening the 30 years?
Have you advised on adding a CPI clause or renegotiation? If not, why not? Why are you not adamant about adding protections to safeguard the town for 30 years?
The answers? >> Keep going. That >> those are my questions. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak? >> Good evening, Mr. Stevenville. >> The microphone that better. >> That's it. Lived
>> here 30 years, heard a lot of promises. Haven't really seen a lot of fulfillment. I have read about this company. They do have somewhat of a checkered past. One of the principles went to prison for um paying a bribe to some building
officials so they would turn their backs so they wouldn't have to use union people. I always think of Nostradamus. I think about 30 years from now. Pat, you and I won't be here. >> Absolutely. >> I'm sorry, but >> you're not telling me anything new and
>> be in the ground. But I have three children that live in the state. One of them lives in town. One of them is trying to get back to town. The other one's in the Air Force. So, we won't worry about her. But I do worry about our children. Our mayor has been quoted on multiple occasions that
if you don't approve this that we're going to get sued. It's also been reported that um this is the land use board's fault. The land use board had nothing to do with the pilot. The land use board approved
the building of the construction of the building because it complied with town code, >> right? >> So, we can't blame this on the land use board and yes, we do have the sewer commitment. I understand that.
If the sewer is the big issue and they need to get over that hurdle, why can't we give them as has been and done in the past by our former CFO? Our mayor always talks about our CFO. I just want to remind you, we don't have a CFO. >> She kind of made some deals with some
people on reducing the amount of money they had to pay to connect. Why can't we do that? or why can't we look at giving them a five-year pilot to help push them over here with the sewers if the sewer is the main issue then I think that's a better way to go
about it. I came here tonight my 41st wedding anniversary >> the anniversary >> and I left my wife because I come to all these meetings and I feel I had an obligation to be here to say something. I believe it's a foregone conclusion and
I believe it's going to be a 40 vote. I hope I'm wrong, but that's what I think. But I think we should really kind of put the brakes on this. My understanding is that we're being told if we don't do this tonight and we let it go into the new year that we're
going to get sued by the developer. I can't imagine why. The promise, the guarantee was made to approve their construction, not to approve the pilot. And I just don't know how any of us can know what's going to be the economical
situation 30 years from now. I don't think, you know, 10 years from now. If we can't get something fixed with legends or if something happened to Mountain Creek, >> we're all doomed anyway.
>> I really would like to compel this council to really think long and hard before we just vote. I've never seen this many people in this building for a council meeting. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I think all of you realize
>> that there's a lot of push back on this and I really hope you guys will do some soularching. Let's put this off. Don't be in such a rush. I don't think it's have the obligation that it must be done tonight. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. If I could add one thing, and I'll
probably sound like a racist, >> but there's three units over there that are going to be for low income. >> We've seen what happens with some of these low income. >> Thank you very much. >> We know what happens with some low income. >> Thank you. >> We could end up with a lot more than eight. That's all I'm saying. You know
that except Yes, my name is Jonathan Kitner. I've owned property in Vernon for my family's own property here for 57 years. We've been living in Vernon now. I think it's five years. I'm not against the building. As a matter of fact, I'd
love to see more residential residents, sorry, residential building in the town centers that will bring businesses. That I'm all for. What I don't understand is how anybody can sign on to a 30-year commitment at any rate when
Vernon has a history of failing in planning. Go for it. Do this. Renegotiate down. If the builder doesn't want to do it with a 10-year commitment or a fiveyear commitment, then it just shouldn't be done. It's a if they're not willing to
do it under reasonable terms, it's a bad decision. >> They're going to force you to do 30 years. We're better off being sued and paying whatever fine there is than agreeing to 30-year commitment. >> We myself here, I own two acres of land.
I'm going to end up paying for this and it's just not worth it. >> Thank you. Joanna Grahan of Mango Drive or Joanna Grahana of Mango Drive. And I'm going to pick up from the last two gentlemen that just spoke. You are correct. And
actually what Jackie said before and the ring, we voted you in. We voted you in to be on our side, not on his Don't smirk. because you ignorance on Facebook.
>> Excuse me, please. >> Address the council. >> Address the council. >> So again, MUA, like you said, yeah, it's going to give a break to the people that have MUA. I don't do MUA. What break do I
get, Natalie? None. My taxes went up $1,500 this year. What break do I get? Please answer me. None. CPI kids. You're going to tell me that you
have this guy sitting there and telling me that we're going to have eight kids there, 27 units. What world do we live in? What world do you live in?
>> And I will talk to him later again. What benefits do I get out of 30 years? Because I've been here for 16. I moved here to leave the crap that was in Bergen County, Essex County, whatever county people
came from to live in the rural state or city for that matter. What you doing is incorrect. What you're doing is not right. And you been on this council for a long time and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Good evening, Jesse Paladini, Vernon Township. I'm going to um address something a little bit different tonight. >> Hi, Jessie. >> First of all, >> I'm sorry. >> Can you pull the mic down?
>> Sorry. >> Oh, you can bend it. >> Okay. I didn't even realize that. Okay. Um, the comment was made. I trust the numbers. We trusted the numbers too with Great
Gorge Village. There was supposed to be zero children. Today, there are over 300. >> Many, many buses come in and out. He trusted the numbers at the Appalachian Hotel. It was supposed to be
a hotel. Zero children. School buses go in and out of there every single day. We trusted the numbers at Hidden Valley. Zero children. Many, many dozens of children. We even
trusted the numbers at 12 Timbers a campground school and I could go on and on in other locations even legends have school children.
So Mayors made the comment the schools do not lose money. The kids will be fine. the schools will be fine. Those are misleading statements
and they're not even relevant because the kids will be fine. The schools will be fine. The schools will not lose money because we the taxpayers will be paying for them. Not the developer.
Many facilitators will be paying for every single one of those students because the developers will not. The mayor posted that the agreement was sent to the DCA for approval. I would like to know tonight, did the
council see or approve anything before it went to the DCA before the mayor submitted it? I'd like an answer to that. This is a public hearing. >> Thank you. >> You saw what went to the DCA. >> The I'm saying thank you. Please continue.
>> You did not. None of you saw what the mayor submitted to the DCA. >> Please continue. It's not necessary for us to see it. he has the responsibility for putting the the the uh parameters of the
negotiations together. >> It's not necessary for the council >> to see the agreement that was sent to the DCA. That's on the record now. Okay. Um, this agreement does not adjust for inflation
or the computer price consumer price index. And um, I'm asking you as a council to vote no tonight and renegotiate it. Make it for five years.
>> Make it for 10 years. >> No. Now, the one thing that I'm going to address tonight that really infuriates me the most that nobody's really mentioned is the sewers. Mayors also said the key drive of the
pilots are the super fees. We have a sewer deficit. I ask you to allow me to continue. It's a public hearing. >> Yes. >> We have a sewer deficit that we have to fulfill. We need to add to our sewers. I
realize now that this is the main driving force of this pilot. >> Thank you very much. >> Promised. We were promised that >> Mrs. Paladini. Thank you very much. You can >> That's it. >> Can continue after. >> May I make one more statement? >> Certainly. >> Okay. >> I want to tell you I wanted to discuss
the sewers but okay. I want to tell you that if you if you vote to approve this tax exemption tonight as written, despite the wide opposition from Vernon residents, it will be the worst thing
ever that you will do to Vernon taxpayers and it will be your legacy. >> Please renegotiate this contract and make it five or 10 years, not 30.
What else? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Did we hear from him at all before he >> Excuse me. >> Mr. Did we hear from him at all? >> Yes. >> Hello. >> Excuse me, please.
>> I didn't hear your name. >> Megan Bridgam. Thank you. >> I've lived in Vernon my entire life and in my 36 years, I'm a little ashamed to say I've never been to a meeting before. I like to hide under my rock. Um, but there's one thing that really has me
hung up tonight and it's eight students. Eight students to you, eight students to that guy. Um, it's not eight students to the parents who send their kids to this district who go and sit in classrooms
for seven hours with 25 other kids next to them who don't necessarily all have the resources that they should have. It might be eight students to you guys, but it's not eight students to the parents of this town, to the teachers of this
town. These kids are going to get robbed in the end. And it breaks my heart to think that they're not going to get what they deserve. They're the future of our world. We should be giving them every opportunity. And to turn around and say, "Oh, it's going to only be eight students. Eight students this year, next
year, 10 years, 20 years. It's not going to be eight students. Class sizes are going to get larger. Kids are going to fall through the cracks. We can't let that happen. and we voted you guys in to protect us as taxpayers to do what's best for our
kids. That's why we're here. Vernon is home. For 36 years, Vernon has always been home to me. And I can't imagine calling anywhere else home. I don't want to be taxed out of the place that I love, that I've spent my entire life. So, I'm pleading with you to go back,
look over all of this, find a better way for us, for the kids. I mean, it's Vernon. We love this place. Let's protect this place. Let's protect the taxpayers of this town. And that's
all we're asking from you guys is to protect us, protect our children, protect Vernon, do what is best for Vernon, and make decisions that we're not going to be stuck with for 30 years and regret five years down the road from now.
Anyone else wishing to speak? >> Speak now or forever. Hold your peace. >> True. >> Let's go. Do it. >> David Virgil. >> Sorry, >> David. Virgil.
>> So, I've lived here a long time. I don't even keep track of the years. Own a business here, own a house here. And the worst part about being here is the property taxes. >> One gentleman who's in favor of the plan earlier mentioned the youth and buying
homes. >> It's not so much the price of the house that's the issue, it's the property taxes that makes up most of your mortgage. And most of that tax is the public schools. So to leave out or look at the best
light possible, the children aspect of this building when it's the most expensive part. If you get it wrong, we the taxpayers will be the ones covering the difference, the issue when
it's more than eight kids, and it will be more than eight kids. This is where you go to have a family when you can't afford the rest of New Jersey. We're the last stop before you got to drive over another mountain. So, this is a very desirable spot to have
kids. And I see the benefit the set terms. I like that as a business owner for myself when I'm taking on risk. But the people who are going to get burned here are going to be the taxpayers because the developer, he's
got the incentive. He's got what he needs to make good money. The investors, they're set up for it. The gap is going to be the children. When there's more than eight and expenses the town has to cover to
keep this thing floating, it's all going to end up on taxpayers because it's set for 30 years. You can't touch it. It's nice to look at the the shiny numbers, you know, versus the land sitting over there only making y many thousand that could be making millions. But that money
goes to the town. It doesn't go to the school. So the people have to pay that difference. There is no benefit for the people. There's benefit to the town. Benefit to
the developer, benefit to the investors, not to the people of the town. There's a great risk for the people of the town because this is locked in for 30 years. I'll be pretty old at that point. And my kids will have to try and
buy a house with a new even higher property tax number. So, keep this in mind. needs to be for the people and there need to be a lot more safeguards in place. Fixed freight is only good
for the developer and for everyone putting money into this thing. It's not good for anybody else. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to address the council? name is Maria Brock
>> over here please in the back I can't see >> uh my name is Maria Brock I have a question because I see the 55 and over there this one bedrooms have a den can they use that den as a second bedroom in the state of New Jersey they took those the rule away that it didn't have to
have a bedroom to be a second a a closet for it to be a second bedroom and is the 27 units one bedrooms going to have a den and are they being charged in the MUA sewer charges for one bedroom or a twobedroom? >> It doesn't.
>> I believe the sewage charges go with the owner. So, he'll have to work that out. Not the not the renter. >> No, the owner's pay the builder's paying for the house because there's no sewer charge to the renters.
Well, it's going to be >> Oh, I I understand what you're saying. >> Yeah. Are they being Are they being charged as a one bed, a second room, a den, not a bedroom? >> There's no den. >> As far as I know, as far as I know, it'll probably be considered a
one-bedroom apartment. >> I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Because to say that >> den where where are we getting there as a den? >> The floor plan is one bedroom.
>> 55 and older. We're not talking >> Yeah. But does the 27 unit building to be the same layout? One bedroom with a den. >> But you're not looking at that. We're not talking about the 55 and older. We're talking about >> But we don't have that layout here. So
no. Yeah. >> It's not going to make a very big difference in the scope of the whole thing because you're talking about >> they they called it in one bedroom. They called it the second. >> I I understand that, but there are a lot
more of those buildings that we're looking >> No mua >> would be. >> Yeah. Okay. That would be the question for the MUA is mostly saying. >> Anyone else wishing to come forward questions? I called this today.
>> Tell them that. >> Yeah, they're listed as a onebedroom with with a loft. >> Okay, thank you. That's the 55 and older. >> Anyone else wishing? >> Evening everyone. Paul Vistante. I'm a new resident here to Vernon and uh this
has definitely got my attention uh and that's why I'm here today. Um it seems to me and with my experience in life that whenever there's a pilot program that is suggested or is that is petitioned for that the number of
students is always and I mean always the point of contention and the point of disagreement based on the Ruters Bloom student yield multipliers the total projected public school students based on this project are 16 which is twice as much as is
being claimed. here. That's a huge difference. That is a significant discrepancy that I would like you to address for us. >> Excuse me. >> I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. >> Oh, go ahead. >> No, I just just a discrepancy that I would like you to address because I
think in every single instance with these pilot programs, and this is not new. We're not reinventing the wheel. This is going on in every single town. And if you look at them, you'll see that the main discrepancy in all of it is the number of students that are being claimed by the proper. They want us to
think there are less students than there really are. Those are the facts. Okay. Go ahead and look at the Rucker study. That's a median example of what will happen. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Mr. such a strong impression about the times that I would be Excuse me, Mr.
Mayor. Please >> I can see you're you're getting upset. Please stop. >> Mrs. Edwards, >> I just want to say one thing that's very very important to this. There's legislation that would require the municipalities to share certain payments in lie of property taxes with school
districts, meaning the municipality would keep less of the annual service charge it collects. The bill remains pending. That was as of December 19th. I don't know if it went through or not. If it is not adopted during the current legislation, it must be reinduced reinduced in the 26th 27th. So, please
keep that in mind. Thank you. >> Because we're not absolved from that either. Thank you. >> Yes. Is there anyone else? Seeing no one wishing to come forward, may I have a motion to close the floor to the back? >> Oh, I'm sorry.
>> We got more since I was 26 years old. I am now 68 years old. I won't be around for 30 years. So, This is going. My kids live in Bernie. I raise four kids. So, I guess I'm above
the average because four is half of eight. I don't believe you're only going to have eight kids. I've been here a long time. I've seen it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, sir.
>> Hi, my name is Jonathan Levenson. Um, do you see a lot of people here today for what's normal? >> No, >> this isn't a lot of people. >> Oh, I'm saying this is not normal. >> Okay. Do you know why they're all here? >> Yeah.
>> Because of this 30-year thing. It's beyond reasonable. Couldn't be more than five or 10. Anyone else wishing to come forward? >> May I have a motion to close the floor to the public? >> Moved. Moved by Mr. Higgins. Is there a
second? >> Second. >> Seconded by Mrs. Bucheri. Uh, roll call, please. >> Council member Buchi. >> Yes. >> Council member D. Benadetto. >> Yes. >> Council member Higgins. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Closing the closing the floor to the public. >> Oh yeah. >> Are you ready? >> Take a five minute. We'll take a five minute >> recess. >> Recess. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We're good.
>> Yes. >> Good. >> All right. Great. Thank you. And there is Brian back. So again, uh, thank you, Council President. I will certainly try and hit a couple of the comments that we, um, heard tonight. Certainly the ones that we heard multiple times. And again, Brian, you may not have been on,
but I would just ask you to obviously jump in wherever you want as I think many of these are um financial in nature andor relating to the student uh computation using the Rucker Blouse model. Um
>> so feel free to jump in whenever you uh whenever you'd like. Um let me start uh council president council with the comment we heard several times about the payments being fixed and not being adjusted based on CPI. So
our payments are not fixed. Our payments will vary every single year. CPI goes up, rent goes up, right? Rent is the largest component of CPI. So as CPI goes up, rent goes up. As rent goes up, our
pilot goes up. >> Can you tell the people why getting a pilot is so important to the people who are trying to find money in the second in in the uh lending
market. >> The um single largest expense in this project that the developer doesn't control is taxes. So the developer needs to make sure and the l for the benefit
of the lender that all of its costs are within a control number so that it can meet debt service coverage requirements uh investor return requirements, bank return requirements. Pilot as a pay as a percentage of
revenue becomes a fixed cost. It is not itself a fixed number. It goes up every time rents go up. But it is a fixed computation which means the developer and more importantly the lender can
understand exactly what that component of the expense part of this project will look like every single year. >> Thank you. >> Brian, anything you wanted to add there? >> No, no, I think that's exactly right. It just provides a level of certainty that
a bank needs to lend um for a 30-year period. And that kind of ties into a little bit about why is the pilot 30 years. Well, it's so that the term of the pilot and that that certainty or at least the reasonable expectation of what
the pilot payments are going to be is set for that 30-year period, which is when the bank who is lending the lion share of the funds to build the project is expecting to be repaid. So it really all ties into
um providing um a level of um uh you know information that the bank needs level of certainty um so that they can ensure that they're going to get you know paid back since you know because again this we're talking about a $10
million project you know a almost $6 million loan to finance this building. Um, so that's really what they're looking for and why um, those terms are what they are. >> Thank you. >> Right. So that's why the term is 30
years. Could it be less? Yes. Would it work in this circumstance? No. So you might as well not give it at all and not have a project. Um, and again the cost again the pilot payment is not fixed. It
does adjust. it will rise with CPI. Um there was a comment about default and remedy on taxes. That's something um I want to spend a minute on that's important. A pilot is akin to a traditional tax from an enforcement perspective.
If the property owner is late in pay first their property their pilot payments are due the same time that we all pay our property taxes. February 1, May 1, August 1, November 1. They have the same 10-day grace period. Actually, they don't technically, but they in theory have the same 10-day grace period
that we all have. And on day 11, they're all subject to the exact same laws, enforcement, interest, penalties, lean on the property, tax sale at the end of the year as any other taxpayer in town. >> Yeah. So, the INREM Tax Foreclosure Act,
which is referenced several times in the agreement, applies to this property as if it was a conventionally taxed property. If they do default, you have a right to terminate. You have a right to turn around and um and uh terminate the
agreement, get rid of the pilot, and assess them conventional taxes. what you will see. >> I I'm sorry when everyone else was speaking um there was you know quiet so maybe we can give back the same
courtesy. >> Thank you. What you will see in the circumstance where the um developer is not paying their pilot is the mortgage lender will make that payment because obviously your lean as everybody here
knows if you we any of us fail to pay property taxes. The lean on our property trumps all other prior leans. Trumps our mortgage lean trumps everything other than subsequent taxes. And as a result, if the redeveloper is not going to pay,
the bank is not going to lose their $7 million loan, $6 million loan, the collateral for that loan based on a tax payment. So, they have the right to step in and make that payment. But the property is otherwise subject to all enforcement, no different than any other
property um here in town. Um how long will it take to ramp up units? I would say 6 months. That's really a developer question, but our experience from doing projects like this tells you plus or minus six months to rent up these units. You'll obviously get a lot more view of
that when the Theta project, which has a pilot just like this, done by the same developer and in the same neighborhood uh ramps up starting in January. Um but generally about 6 months. One of the questions was asked if we don't do
anything. Um let's walk through those numbers. If we don't do anything, the town the property currently pays a total of $3,800 in taxes. That presumably would go on forever. Uh the township would receive about $900 of those taxes.
That's the that's the definitive what we all know the do nothing scenario is. the numbers in um Phoenix advisor's report not provided by the developer but provided by your independent financial
consultant is again you know $73,000 in year one and $3.7 million over the over the life of the pilot versus the 38,000 over the life of the pilot in that do nothing um scenario. There are no units built yet. I mean, you you one of you
pointed out where the pro where the project is, so you can see that, but there was a comment about units already already built. Um, I'm not sure if that maybe was reference to another project, but this project has not broken ground. This project does not have uh financing. This project will not get financing
without a financial agreement, which is why it doesn't have the financing today because we don't have a pilot today. You shouldn't. >> Uh because I want to >> a moment, please. A moment. >> No, I understand how
emotional this can get, but I think to sacrifice the quorum, common courtesy is something that you're going to have to reconsider. Each and every one of us sitting up here
have had children, have had live in the town. And all I would ask is the same respect you give your c your neighbors that you give to us and to the people that we
invite to this meeting. I've lived in this community for 58 years. And what have I heard? Why can't we be more like Warwick? We don't have the facilities. We don't
have the tax revenue to be more like Warwick. Mrs. Bucheri has lived in this township for quite a while as as is Mr. Higgins and also Mrs. De Benadetto. So
please, I don't like using this. I've sat through board of educations meetings that were much more contankerous than this one and I never had to use a gavl. Are you telling me now that the
older we get, the less uh cooperative, the less uh >> Oh, excuse me. Mr. >> That's not the answer. The answer is there is a process. This process needs
to be followed. We are following the process right down to the to the to the numbers through the numbers. >> Please continue. >> Certainly. So that $73,000 in year one, $3.7 million over the 30 years, that is
revenue to the municipal budget, right? So that is revenue that you know absent budget increases going up taxes come down to the extent that the budget's going to go up. This money can be used to offset that budget going up which means taxes aren't impacted as much. So
there is a direct correlation between $3.7 million increase to the municipal revenue system and the taxpayers, right, which are one and the one and the same. So the taxes will never go below
the 10% level that we starting with. >> Well, you mean the pilot? >> That's But I >> I meant Excuse me. I'm so used to working with taxes. Pilots are something uh completely uh new. So uh but with the
uh pilot program, that's your floor. >> Pilot revenue that comes into the township is additive. Anything over $900 is new found revenue to the municipal budget. >> Yes.
>> The governing body every single year will decide how it spends that revenue. >> But in a world where the budget stays still year-over-year taxes come down. You only have a couple sources of revenue to pay for all of the
operations of the municipality. >> Taxes being the largest one. maybe grants to the extent you're getting any sale of property and other oneoffs, right? But the largest revenue generator for the municipality is taxes.
We are this project is producing new additive revenue that doesn't exist today that can offset the tax burden on the municipal budget for all township taxpayers. By the way,
just as a matter of note, Newton has Township right up the road a little bit has 13 pilot programs going and it's a tremendous revenue producer
there. Nobody's suffering because of that. >> Thank you. We also um council president, I want to talk about the developer not having the incentive to raise rents. The developer first, this project is thin. We've said
it. Brian Morris has said it. The operating expenses are like 35% of the total cost, which is high for a residential project. Brian can give you um more common numbers. As a result, first for that alone, they will want and
need to raise rent. But secondly, I don't know a developer that doesn't want to make money, >> right? >> Right. I don't know a developer that invests $4 million of their own money to not make money. I don't know that any of us would invest $4 million to not make
money. Right. So, um the incentive to raise rents is there. um the obligation to raise rents is there relative to their thin proforma in the first place and again as CPI goes up um so goes rent.
>> Uh last if I could jump in um oh sorry >> I was just going to say another comment I heard kind of similar in this vein is the upside versus downside protection. So you know we we touched on it fairly briefly. So again, on the upside,
as the developers rents go up, the township's pilot revenue goes up. First just by a matter of 10% of a higher number is is more than 10% of a lower number, but then also by virtue of the 11, 12, and then 13%
uh increases over time. So there's certainly both entities, it's a partnership at the end of the day. So really both entities are sharing in the upside. um downside risk. We talked a little bit about, well, what if the rents aren't where they thought? What if
it's only half leased out? Yes, based on those um percentages, the pilot payment would be less to the township. However, that's when the percentage of conventional taxes phase in that I
mentioned earlier. Um it's statutoily set at um between 0 and 80%. um it goes up in uh 20% um increases. So it's 0 20 40 60 80 for the second half of the term
of the 30-year term. Essentially that floor is 60% for 5 years and then 80% for the last 9 years. Um so even in those years even if the rents you know this is extreme but even if the rents were zero the the
township would be collecting a pilot payment equal to 60 or 80% of otherwise applicable conventional taxes. So, I just want to stress that I think that's important that there is downside protection negotiated into the contract and each year the township um you know
assessor, collector, finance department, whoever it may be does that calculation and says which number is larger and whichever one is larger that's what they bill the pilot payment uh in that year. So, I just want to clarify that. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yep. And Brian, don't go far because the
last thing I wanted to mention was um the number of of school age children projected. We had a a a resident near the end of the comment period quote uh 16 students out of the Rucker's Blouse
model um as opposed to the numbers um given by the developer. And so before I turn it over, I just wanted to be clear that the eight students that I mentioned, I think you've mentioned earlier to the public and to the governing body are not being provided to
us by the developer. They are in fact the township's computations, Phoenix Advisor's computations and it is based on the Ruckers Blousey model. So can you spend a little more time just talking
about how we compute um those numbers? Uh, sure. And I I think that's an important blanket statement, you know, that you mentioned. So, we me as Phoenix Adviserss, a representative of Phoenix Advisors, we work for the township. We've been engaged as an independent
financial consultant of the township to review, check these numbers, kind of help negotiate the pilot and review all this. So, that eight um school children um projection is is numbers that we independently came up with using that
blouse study. I I did hear the gentleman say that he got 16 kids. I'm happy to look at the numbers, but to be honest with you, there's thousands of different multipliers depending on the unit type, whether it it's in North Jersey, South Jersey, what the potential value is, if
it's above the median, uh below the median value. There's uh market rate, low income. So, I I I certainly can't, you know, in this context say why my numbers were different. Um because like I said, there's tons of thousands of numbers in there. So, we'd have to
compare what the source of each calculation is, which I'm happy to do at a later date. Um but we uh got the eight students. Now, I will say, you know, I I I understand the the skepticism. Uh it is just a projection based on the
information that we have at hand today. It could be more, it could be less. It's just the best effort um pro projection prediction for uh purposes of this analysis. You know, it's certainly uh can change. Um you know, it's it's just
using historical data to try to get you a best guess at what the number is going to be in the future. Um what it ends up being, you know, is is what it will end up being. Um, you know, even I will, you know, I don't want to speculate too much
uh on on what it could be, but you know, I'll say that the district's enrollment is, you know, 3,000 um some odd kids. That fluctuates by 60,000 or 60, excuse me, students per year over the last few years. So, again, I I do agree, you know, every child is
important. You certainly don't want um overcrowding or or anything like that. Um but um you know I think relative to the overall district you know this project you know the eight children um
you know it doesn't seem to be a large um you know impact if if that's where the number comes out >> and Brian I just want to so two more things one I just want to clarify um based on the Rucker Blouse numbers you were commenting that there are you know
multiple categories right in order to help comput that number. Your number of eight kids is based on all of the specific characteristics and variables that the Blouseing School provides for this
project in this municipality. And I think your point was that we you can't comment on the 16 provided by the resident because we don't know which of all of those data points he may have used to come up with that number. But I just want to be clear and I'd like you
to clarify for the record that your number of eight uses all of the metrics in the blouse schools model for this particular area in this particular project. >> Uh yes, that's exactly correct. >> Okay. And then the last thing I wanted
to comment on and Brian you can certainly weigh in are the two different cost assumptions for students, right? the the basically the $25,000 number which is the all-in cost per student and the $13,000 number and I just want to point out for the governing body and
public's benefit the state of New Jersey Department of Education publishes those numbers right they publish both a full cost of education and they cover they publish a cost of classroom instruction because the state of New Jersey department of education recognizes that
there is a difference in those two numbers right there is a difference in what you need to what increased costs come as a result of a new child as opposed to what the cost is to educate across all children. Right? So, I just
want to point out that, you know, this isn't a number that we're making up that the developer hasn't provided it at all. None of this is their data. Um, but in fact, this comes from the state of New Jersey Department of Education who publishes these numbers for every school district and they differentiate between
the $25,000 number and the $13,000 number. >> Thank you. >> Any other council? >> Thank you very much. I just want to sorry a lot of people mentioned uh negotiation clause but I
did some reading there's no I mean pilot programs tend to be set in stone from the beginning they don't have negotiation clauses built into them >> correct we don't get to say hey listen uh we'll cut a downside deal but if you do better we want to come back and take more money from you and the bank after
the fact likewise we don't want them coming back to us and saying you know that 60 80% because we're not doing well we'd like you to take less money right these financial agreements are all uniform. They are the same whether you're in the southern tip of New Jersey
or the northernmost section of New Jersey. They are, you know, 30 years is typical. It is not the only term. It is the typical term. Um and you are locking in your deal. Your rents, your um pilot will fluctuate. It will increase, may
decrease over time depending on the circumstances. uh but you are locking in the terms which have that variable component so that your rent your revenues can increase over time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> May I have a motion to >> put it on the floor? >> Put it on the floor. >> That motion. >> Motion made by Mrs. Beri. Second. Seconded by Mr. Higgins. The The ordinance 2517 is now on the floor
for for for a vote. uh ordinance of the township of the Vernon of Vernon County of Sussex, New Jersey, approving application for a long t long-term SAT tax exemption and authorizing the
execution of a financial agreement with Omega Drive Redevelopment Urban Renewal LLC. Motion is on the floor and seconded. Uh >> any comments? >> Yes.
I a lot of people here I know personally. I speak to you about politics. I speak to you about schoolboard issues. I could say a lot the school board issues are predominant here in this discussion. And as former been a mayor, I was like a renegade
there because I was sick of the overspending and the undereducating that took place and it's still taking place. And everybody is here. I'm very very happy that you're here. We you should be at the schoolboard meeting because what's taking place here with this pilot
program is that when you pay your taxes once somebody said their tax went up $1,300 or so, 58% of that went to the school board, we get 20%, the county gets 20%. 20% is all we work. We have $32 million
budget. They have a $72 million budget. Mhm. >> They have one teacher for 10.9 students plus a couple aids in those classes. So, it's not like it used to be when we were kids going to school and one teacher with 30 kids in it. It's a whole
different gig right now. 82% of their budget is spent on people on salaries and benefits. And your taxes went up last year because the school board was going to put a referendum out for a 9.65% 65% increase to raise your taxes.
And you would have gotten to vote on it and they knew it would probably fail. And then the governor came along and said, "That 2% cap is now 9.9%." That very day, the school board took that 9.65 off of the referendum and
voted to raise your taxes 9.65%. So all your tax increases came from the school board, whether you got kids in it or not. Now, there's senior freeze that you have. You're allowed to freeze your your increase in taxes if you're over a certain age and you're under a certain income. And when you get those,
hopefully everybody's applied for it because that means that you're not paying for something over and above what you already are. So this pilot program and the reason I say that because of all the talk that all the the taxes and the
schools is 20% goes here. And when a uh person says uh I'm going to challenge my taxes in town and they're paying $10,000 a year taxes and they're overcharged $1,000. They get a refund. Now we in the
town collect the money for the county. We collect the money for us. We collect the money for the schools. We're the we're the ones that look like the bad guys. We're taking your money. And then the day we take our money, we send the school board a check for $3 million, $4 million. So we're we're the collector,
but we don't get to keep it. But if somebody challenges their taxes and let's say they win a $1,000 rebate, we pay 100% of that. The county keeps their portion and the schools keep their portion. That's real fair, right? So, we're the collector and and we take the
brunt of the uh of of all the costs. If there's if there's other benefits given where people don't have to pay their taxes due to disabilities or whatever, 100% us, none of it goes to the schools or the county. And that's all dictated by the state. It's a it's a democratic
state. It's it's it's the teachers union owns the governor and they they control the election. They're great people who are teachers. They do a great job. There's a couple board members here I know that fight those taxes and they lose every time, but they're still fighting. And a couple of them spoke
here tonight. So, of that 20% that we get to keep, this pilot program will give us 97% of that 3.8 million. That's to give you your new roads, your new police department, your new fire trucks, all
the things that the town does for you is that $3.7 million over the course of 30 years. So, it's it's kind of uh selfish on our part. Yeah, we bought the money. Instead of just always giving and not getting any back, we'd like to do some
things for you that that you'd be proud of whenever you you see, hey, it's a new park or a new ball field or something that you can relate to. Please, please. >> And I had a lot of questions and
concerns that the uh Matt Jessup just answered the same as you did, and I think he did a great job answering them. I'm satisfied that the 30 years, it's long. Yeah, there's a lot of unknowns in 30 years, but there are those checks and balances built in. And uh just just
think of this. We have 68 square miles a town, one of the biggest in the state. And we're talking about a 3/4 of an acre piece of property behind the building here on a basic deadend street that's causing all this disruption. And we have
obligations to the uh state. We have to have affordable housing. If not, you want them to come in and tell you where to put them like they're doing in some of the more expensive towns. and they're putting schools and they're putting uh they have to provide transportation because they're saying, "Hey, your
downtown area has room and we're going to tell you how many apartments are going to go up because you didn't do it." That's what happens. And I don't want to lose control to the state. I like the rural I like the uh outdoors. the the Highlands Act forbids building
in 90% of this town and this is one of the areas where you're allowed to build and it's done to protect the water supply and it was and it really kept the population growth down. We went from 20,000 when I moved here to 27 and now we're down to around 24 and the schools
were 5,500 and as the other gentleman said they're 2900. So that's a controllable expense and they have to find a way to keep your taxes down and frankly I think we can do much good with this 3.7 million over 30 years and I'm
going to vote yes on the pilot program. >> Thank you. Thank you Mr. Higgins. >> Yeah. So I was at that school uh school board meeting with Bill and I didn't see even half of the number of the people that are here tonight. So, I agree with Bill on people directing themselves to
schoolboard meetings. They raised our taxes 14% that day and very few, in fact, there were a lot more people there in support of that than there were fighting it. So, I wish you guys would direct your focus there. Um, I do think you brought up good points
that I wrote down and I think Mr. Jessup answered them sufficiently. I still don't know what I'm voting yet. I'm still thinking, but um thank you guys for coming and voicing your opinion. >> Mrs. Bucher, thank um I do appreciate
seeing everyone and I I will echo what Jessica and and Bill said um about the school board. I I would hope that there'd be more engagement at school board meetings and um engagement with the budget and what's going on in our in the classroom. There's a lot of great teachers in our district. Um, I have
four children that went through the the Vernon Township School District and um happy with the school district district, but the uh the budget um impacts everyone. I we all pay taxes here um when we vote on on things like this ordinance or other things. We're
impacted, too. Um we we chose to to run for office and to take on this role because we care about our community, or at least I did. I don't want to speak for everyone else here, but I did. Um, and I I'm happy. I want to hear
everyone's um thoughts. I'm I uh I care about our community. I care about my neighbors. I um I hope that Mr. Jessup answered your questions. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, miscommunication about what this pilot
program meant. um that there weren't safeguards in it, that we weren't able to um you know put a lean on the property if they defaulted. Uh Mr. Jess explained that it was just like defaulting on taxes that we were able to put a a lean on the property um if they
were to default and not hold up their contractual obligations that there is an increase. Um obviously a developer is going to want to raise rent. They're going to want to make more money. So then our um percentages go up along with those increases. I understand if if you
don't like it, everyone has different, you know, feelings and thoughts regarding things. Um we or me personally, I will vote the way that I I think is best supports our community. That's what's important to me. I'm not
going to vote for something if I think it's going to hurt our community, if it's going to hurt the people that are my neighbors. Um, and again, I live here, too. My taxes are high, too. My taxes went up quite a bit. Um, so I understand exactly what that that one woman who said her taxes went up, I
think, $1,300. And I totally understand. My taxes have gone up um an enormous amount, too. And I do support the pilot. >> Thank you. This is a difficult decision, but I can only look at this decision
relative to what else is happening in the community. We need the the growth in this community in order to attract additional commercial ratables. the only way I believe we're going to be able to
work uh this situation out by in reducing taxes. Uh will we be asking or will the board of education be asking for schools? I don't know, but I don't think so.
in n in 2005, I believe, as the young man stated, the the uh the population of the school was 5,600. It's now down to 2900. Uh you you're going to have to do an
awful lot of uh bringing in of people in order to uh go back to that level. And I think if you've looked at the numbers that uh that go come from the state and many from the blouse uh area of
education that one of the key exports of the state of New Jersey is its youth and its people. People continue to leave the state of New Jersey because of taxes. And the only way we're going to be able
to respond to that is with some type of uh increase in the commercial ratables so that the the tax burden does not fall on all of you. Um
I had I was pleased that when I saw the number of people who came here this evening. What I am disappointed is that um so many preconceived ideas and notions about this program had already
been set and it's very difficult I know for people to quickly change their mind but I think with the the the uh the imposition of um Mr. uh Jessup and the
fact that um these programs uh are available uh it's there for people just like us. There's a redevelopment zone right across the street. There's a
redevelopment zone halfway down. There's a redevelopment zone down in McAfee. And these zones are there because you know what? Nobody wants to buy anything in these towns that you got to offer. So
by bringing in some u key uh features i.e. golf courses, restaurants, um some type of unit that brings in some
uh people but not necessarily uh taxpayers, but they do work to protect help our taxes by being part of uh those who visit the community.
uh we we are uh we're at that point where I think we need to begin to look a little bit wider at what is necessary for us to make this
township grow. So on that basis I I can only concur with my colleagues that uh I I will support this program. Ending that I will for a roll call please. >> Council member Sherryi.
>> Yes. >> Council member D. Benadetto. >> No. >> Council member Higgins. >> Yes. >> Council President Mazudo. >> Yes. >> She carries. >> Thank you. >> Moving on to ourbody. I have a motion to open the floor for
public comment on any item. I'll move by Mr. Higgins. Is there a second? >> I'm sorry. >> I'll second it. >> A roll call, please. >> Yes. Council member Da. Yes. >> Higgins.
>> Yes. President. >> Yes. Floor is open to the public on any issue for five minutes. >> I don't know your
pal mentioned by the way Dory there she mentioned how many times we were made promises on different projects in the town and it was all not true. Every single one of the projects I don't know why you think this is going to be different. Here is the ad that I just
saw in Thursday's paper for the 55 and over $2,350 spacious onebedroom, one den, and one den units. >> Yeah, I get >> I called today and she said and I was told by the person, well, the den you
could use as a bedroom. Okay, so there you go. The other thing that I wanted to mention, how many how many units I've drove past there several times. I see one light on at the 55 and and older building where the reception area is. I don't see any apartment lights on. One
truck and parked in front like he owns the road. Right here is here's a here's a release from Advertiser News from May 15, 2024. And this was quoted by the O'Neal group. Pre-releasing of the units
will begin about six months before the building's complete. the building they have their CEO. They just got their CEO early to uh December, by the way. Bill, okay, how many units already leased out? Do you know? Because that would be your due diligence as a town council to find
out, well, how is that other unit going? Because this is what they put on record. Okay. I I don't I don't understand. You know, I'm all for redevelopment. First of all, that's the other question. Redevelopment in my mind is one thing. development is
another. There was no structure that needed to come down. There was no failing building or anything of that nature. It was just an empty lot. How does that fall into redevelopment? I don't know. Anyway, uh I'm disgusted. I You know, I say this every time I come
up. I mean, I am wrong, but I don't think we're going to be wrong. I believe this gentleman here, Mr. Jessup is incorrect stating that 30 years is the norm. That's not what we read. We had people researching
this for over a month. You know how many hours of our time we put into this? And trust me, I learned a lot more. I learned also with public hearings. There's no time limit. Okay? There's a time limit in this section for three minutes, but there's no time limit with
the public sections. So, I don't know what to tell you folks, but I'm done. >> Anybody else wishing to speak? >> I would like >> Excuse me. Can we have some quiet?
sort of vote in those aspects. You have more spine and backbone on that board than every single one of them combined. >> And I hope when the rest of them step down that you run for the highest position you can. As for the lawyer,
>> excuse me, address the council, please. >> Oh, good. As for the lawyer, there are negotiations that you can have. I would like to know what page that renegotiation was on for us because in the beginning he said we have one then he said we don't have one. I would like
to know what page the CBI clause is on and the rent is irrelevant because what if they don't raise the rent? What if the unit is not rented out? Then we're not collecting money on that. Okay. Right. I I I just I can't you know
you have a financial advisor who said we don't know the numbers whatever it will be it will be. What kind of person makes a decision when your financial quote unquote expert says
we don't know. I've heard the words probably. I assume we don't know. and you just locked yourself into a 30-year deal minus you uh
based on we don't know and your expert telling you ah whatever it will be it will be so this can be a total fail at the end of the day I think not enforcing safety precautions for this town is
negligence I think you had a lot of reasonable risk presented to you which is a total breach of your fiduciary duty. And I hope everyone takes this to the state level and reports it.
>> I hope everybody disappointed is a mild understatement. And then observing you mentioned that people don't go to board meetings. This is why these these these decisions are obviously pre-planned and it's unfair to the taxpayers. Okay? And like she said, we've been researching and researching.
I'll give you a couple examples. You know, the the thought that there would be 14 full-time employees working at this one building. Basically, one person for every two units is preposterous. That's dreamed up by organized crime.
Okay? That's dreamed up as a placeholder for non-show union jobs. like they've been doing that for decades and here we are. Oh, 14 jobs. Okay. Okay. How ridiculous a premise is that? We're laying down in the gutter with these people and we know what they are. We
know that the links to organized crime, the Wesi crime family, the time served in prison and this is what we're going to go to back for. And not only once, but twice. Let me guess. Are we going to have nine more requests for relief under
the expense of the MUA sewer hookup fees? Are they going to go that well nine more times? And then right after that, let's guess how bad is it going to be for Legends? Is legends going to do the same thing? You've been set up and played for fools other than Jessica. I'm
so sorry, but thank you for nothing. You've been played for fools by an inep administrator here. Seems like I'm a black sheet here. >> So, I'm sorry. >> Majority of the people I graduated
school with, Jersey City. That's like another thing. >> Thank you. >> A majority a majority of the increase in your property taxes is due to the fact that we haven't built anything in the last 25 years.
The other thing is the schools can support more children. I was there six years ago and a majority of our classes were >> My daughter has 34 kids in the class. >> Excuse me, please. We don't call out. Are you call?
>> No, I'm saying we don't call out. >> Building a downtown doesn't mean we lose our characteristic. Is still rural and it has mixeduse developments, >> right? >> Are you a taxpayer? I'm just >> Excuse me,
>> Mrs. Edwards. >> I was just talking to you. No, you're what you're doing is you're speaking out at a public meeting when you don't where you were not recognized. >> When you were not recognized when you were not recognized speech, >> I wasn't speaking to you. That's
>> No, it doesn't make any difference. >> Well, like I said, >> excuse me, Mrs. Edwards than I should have. I was excuse me, gentlemen. No, excuse me. >> No, >> I don't want to hear Please. >> Anyone else wishing to speak from here?
Yes, you may. >> With all due respect, I just met this gentleman tonight and he seems lovely even though he's badmouththed me many times on Facebook without knowing me. He's confusing something. Nobody here said we are against the development.
This is not about the apartment building. It's about the pilot, >> right? >> We're not against buildings. We're against the the tax abatement, the agreement. So, it's important that people recognize. >> All I know is at the end of this
program, there's a $3.8 million advantage >> using the uh >> guaranteed >> using the pilot program that money. >> Are you gonna be here guaranteeing that? >> Are you going Excuse me. I'm not getting
into a conversation back and forth. Is anyone else wishing to >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. First of all, >> microphone. >> First of all, >> the hazards of being six. >> If you're going if you're going to
address the audience, starting off with all I know or what I assume is not the right way to start. >> Thank you. Statement. Okay. It makes everyone out here really intelligence and we should
that being said I may I get I hate public speaking the there was a point made and I think it's worth it every day here that um I want to say this right and correct me
if I'm wrong the the um the amount that the pilot program stipulates is we're going to get I believe it was 11% at the beginning of gross revenue and then there was a floor in there am I right that if it is
something like below 50% of what the taxes would be we get the greater of the gross revenue or 50%. Can you go over what those numbers are again because it was described in I apologize my only
source of information in this is Facebook absolutely terrible. >> Thank you for admitting that. >> I know my wife Facebook um news all the time but that is my only source of information on this. go over what those floors are again and
at what point they kick in because if we're going to get most of the fax revenue away that could change my perspective and everyone's perspective had to go over >> you have the right can >> Oh yeah,
if I had it first I would run through the president hear what the real numbers are certainly happy to public speaking the way in which you address the people here these section 4.2 of the financial agreement
provides the schedule to compute the pilot. It's broken up into five stages. In the first stage, years 1 through six. Year one being the date upon which the certificate of occupancy for the project
is issued. Right. >> For those first six years, the annual service charge or the pilot is 10% of annual gross revenue. Stage two, which is year 7 through 11.
The pilot is equal to the greater of 11% of annual gross revenue or 20% of otherwise applicable taxes which is the conventional taxes that the project would pay if it was not exempted.
Stage three is years 12 through 16. And for those dates, the pilot is equal to the greater of 12% of annual gross revenue or 40% of conventional taxes.
Stage 4, which is year 17, the pilot is equal to the greater of 13% of annual gross revenue or 60% of otherwise applicable taxes. And in stage five, which is yours 22
through 30, >> excuse me, please. >> I'm waiting for young lady to complete her comments. So, can we continue? >> Thank you. Go ahead, please. In stage
five, which is years 22 through 30, the pilot is equal to the greater of 13% of annual gross revenue or 80% of otherwise applicable taxes. In addition to those amounts across those five stages, there
is also a 2% administrative fee equal to 2% of the amount of the pilot paid in every year. >> Right? even if the pilot is paid by virtue of the percentage of otherwise applicable taxes and not the percentage of gross revenue. >> Thanks, Matt.
>> Thank you. >> Does that answer your question, sir? >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> I need excuse me, council president. I need names. >> I'm sorry. May I have your name? >> Thank you.
>> Uh Mr. Rudo, uh Mr. Cherry, uh, Miss Deanto, and Mr. Higgins. Um, I just want to say, um, that I appreciate your efforts in governing the town. This is not a, this is not an easy job. I understand. I feel like I'm thankful for
the residents for showing up here today and taking part in the process of government. But I would like to ask you and people in the room, Mr. Mayor, and um, and Mr. Jess as well is if we could
maybe for the new year concentrate on a better and and less lack of the quorum between us and between you um not just for you people behind me as well like I said before I'm a new
resident uh and what I've observed in this town so far since I've been here is a very very contentious relationship between the governing body and the people who are residents here. I don't know why that is. I'm trying to figure it out. Okay. However, um regardless, uh
I am disappointed in this decision to a mild degree, but this is what happens in government, right? You don't always get your way. So, it's about the people that you vote into office. And so, that's when you have your your say. You don't have your say to be um demonstrative or
abrasive. I feel both ways. both ways. So maybe everybody in the room going forward in the new year could realize that we'll be a lot better off if we can just like each other a little more, more friendly, have more,
okay? And I don't mean to preach, not a soap box, okay? But just my two cents for being a new resident. I like the place a lot. Like what you've done with the place, it's real nice and I'm happy to be here and hopefully we can do that in the new year. Nice to meet you all.
>> Thank you. >> Anyone else wishing to come forward? >> Peter Knight. Um, I just want to say thank you for having such an forum for this kind of uh back and forth. Um there
are points of the pilot program that I I may have liked to see uh different, but I uh I understand as an economist um that there are uh benefits
for a growing community. Um it's not just about the cost of education. there are um there are other issues and I I believe the mayor uh understands that and appreciates that and because of his
understanding I I believe that's why um we've had this opportunity. Uh I want to share with you that uh this year I was co-chair of the economic development committee. Um we had uh some some
problems with uh getting quarums at meetings uh which I was part of the problem. It was a tough year for me. But we had scheduled and I'm very pleased to say that for next year and with the
encouragement of the mayor, we're going to have a uh Vernon business and economic development forum. It's going to be hosted at uh um >> Red Tail, >> pardon
>> Red Tail Lodge. >> At the Red Tail Lodge. >> Um it's going to be open to all businesses in in town uh including uh we're inviting developers uh from the area to come and we've already spoken
with several that uh are pleased to come. We're also going to have presentations by uh the New Jersey Economic Development Commission. Um we're having several other economic development
groups come and talk about different pro programs that are available for small businesses because that's what we need to do. We need to attract small businesses. uh we're not going to attract uh chains
um but small businesses are is our business. So I think we're going to focus on what Vernon can do best and that's develop truly a destination for recreation
entertainment and there's many models of successful communities that have done this. Um >> so um this forum will probably be held in the late spring and um I I'm very
optimistic. Uh I can share with you that um in the past year I c I can attest that we have changed uh our reputation as a more businessfriendly
uh uh town. And part of that is because of what the mayor has done in terms of u streamlining u and and creating a
definite line where when a developer or a business wants to do something in town, we we can put them in the right hands um and take away some of um the
the uh uh trouble that that's been experienced in the past. So, we've we've developed a good a better reputation. uh before coming back to Vernon, I uh uh was chairman of the economic development
committee at uh Frankfurt and I can tell you that uh in Frankfurt we were very much involved with the county and I I can share with you I was very sad to to know that Vernon had a terrible terrible
reputation terms of working with developers and I'm pleased to share with you that's that's changed and I think this forum is going to be a big step forward. Um I myself uh
have a project. I'm going to bring a uh essentially a a museum uh which I had served as chairman of for 10 years some a decade or two before
which is now uh essentially um uh existing on paper. It's an forprofit, 75 years old, and I'm bringing that to Vernon. We're going to name it uh most likely Highland
uh uh Cultural Arts Center. So, >> looking forward to it. Thank you very much. >> I think that will uh good good >> step in the right direction. >> Thank you. >> So, uh I wish everybody a happy new year.
>> Thank you. a healthy and uh uh a healthy one and blessed one. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Peter. >> Thanks. >> Anyone else wishing to come forward? >> Seeing no one else wishing to come forward, may I have a motion close the floor of the >> I'll make that motion.
>> Motion made by Mrs. Bucheri. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Seconded by Mrs. Benadetto Benadetto. All in favor signify by saying I. >> I >> I >> opposed. Motion carries. Council comments.
>> This is Jessica's last meeting. Is that the case? >> Mine too. >> You went out in style here. >> Mine too. Matt uh Bill, >> thank you for all your efforts. Pleasure working with you. >> All right. >> Before we go any further, mayor, you
have some >> uh I just wanted to state your time. Uh this moment I to just say thank you to Natalie and Jessica for your service to this town. Um like like many of us know
taking taking that seat is is difficult and at time you have to make those difficult decisions. Um but thank you again. We don't we didn't always agree. Um but but we respectfully did it and uh we we succeeded a lot at least during my
tenure um so far. Um and I want to say especially Jessica, thank you for running with me. Uh we we we put a lot of miles, a lot of walking. Um baby on your hip. Those bugs are packing us. We're trying to get
patience in April. Well, thank you for and really kind of amazing when we both elected. We we really took our own horns. I mean, yeah. But there and uh and at times, you know, like I said, we we didn't agree. Um >> and we fought sometimes like like
husband and wife. Um but but again thank you again and I really appreciate um everything that you've done and again uh working with me and and uh and your service and the reasons like I said I talked to you privately but the reasons
for you not to was probably the most uh it was so heartfelt that you want to take that time to spend with your your son who I know is near and dear. Um, so I I think that was that was such you don't see that often. So, and like he
said, it's the the only time he's only going to be a little so long. So, for you to do that was just you blew me away when that I was like that couldn't be a better answer to to why you're not running again. And uh I do hope that in the future you do run again. So, um when
when your son's like, "Mom, go away." You know, that age, then then you'll you'll you'll come back. But >> um I do have some flowers I want to give you guys and thank you so much again. I'm always here. You guys have my number. You guys could always call me. My door's always open. You guys know that. So I I really appreciate again all
of the service and that you community. Thank you very much. Appreciate. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Oh, that's lovely. Thank you so much. >> Long ones. Uh it's been my profile honor
to serve the residents of Vernon on this town council for the past two years. Working alongside of each of you brilliant individuals in your own unique way has been a privilege I will always cherish. I hope I've served you well. Serving on this council has been one of the most fulfilling experiences of my
life. I moved around a lot, often feeling restless. But returning to Vernon and finding my home here healed a piece of my heart, healed a piece of my broken heart. This town filled a void I didn't know could be mended. And for that, I'm eternally grateful. Thank you to the residents who voted for me,
trusted me, and gave me the opportunity to serve. To my fellow council members, Bill, my favorite conservative, often misunderstood, but so frequently right. Your perspective and brilliant mind have always impressed me.
Time for my cat's medicine. Uh, I hope you'll consider running for mayor. Vernon, would be lucky to have you leave. Um, Brad, who isn't here, your vast knowledge, sharp, critical thinking are remarkable. You're one of the smartest people I've ever met, and it's been an honor to work with you. Pat, we
didn't start off on the best foot, but you shared wisdom with me that made you see me that made me see you as somebody worth listening to. Thank you for your years of service and your dedication and wisdom for our town. Natalie, my fellow broad on the council, your strength and brilliance are
inspiring. Without your guidance, I wouldn't be here today. And you're a role model for women everywhere. >> Uh Mr. King, who isn't here, I've grown to admire you greatly. Your engagement in our meetings and your hard work and guidance have been invaluable. I'm grateful I had the chance to work with
you. Marcy, Tina, and Danell, thank you for your support and guidance throughout my tenure. your strong, capable women and incredible examples for our next generation. Mayor Rossy, our relationship had its challenges. We ran together, but over time we grew distant
uh often due to political disagreements. Actually, always due to political disagreements, but um you run a town that I love dearly, and I wish you nothing but success because a rising tide lifts all ships and I know we both want what's best for Vernon. um your out
of the box thinking and dedication to our town have been a great value and I'm grateful to know I'll see that continue. Uh to the PIL team, thank you so much for all of your hard work. To the police and EMT, uh well, before I got involved here, I
simply lived in Vernon. It wasn't home yet. I always said I wanted to live in all Oh, no, that's not the part. To our to police to our police department. I am terrible at public speaking. Sorry. To our which is why I write everything down anyway. So, our police department and EMS a few months ago, my son Asher um
had what I didn't know at the time was an asthma attack. His nebulizer wasn't working, and it was a full hour before his next treatment was due. Terrified and alone, I called 911, hoping for an ambulance so somebody could watch him on the way to the hospital. By the time everyone arrived minutes later, the
treatment had kicked in and Asher was running around my house like a maniac in a Spider-Man costume. I'll never forget the response I got from our police department and EMS that day. It still brings tears to my eyes. They showed up in force, comforted me when I was the one who needed it, and
were so kind, even giving my some my 60something male neighbor monster stickers. My neighbors rushed over too when they saw the lights who live in the best town. And that's why it breaks my heart to see political groups arguing and dimming such a bright light in our state. Thank you for your incredible
service. This is all I wish I could have uh I couldn't have asked for better service even though my son Asher was fine. Unfortunately, circumstances beyond my control prevented me from running again. I will deeply miss this role, this board, and the work we've done together.
To the residents of Vernon and my fellow council members and our dedicated municipal staff, thank you from the bottom of my heart. >> That's it. >> Thank you, Jessica. Um I am here um I'm in the >> internet. I did not prepare a speech
like Jessica did, but um it has been a great honor. I um I will miss this. As as crazy as this is, I will miss it. Um Bill, it's been an honor to serve with you on two boards
now, school board and the town council. Um Jessica, we'll still get together. >> Yes, >> Pat, I uh I will miss you definitely. >> Thank you. We will definitely keep in touch. I have learned a lot from from everyone and Brad too. I don't know if
Brad's watching. Probably not. But um I will he'll call me and uh we'll we'll talk about it later on when he gets back from vacation. I'm sure he'll he'll be in touch. Um I it's been a great honor and uh a privilege to to serve the community. It's um it's something that
um I've always aspired to do and I've just been grateful that I've been given the opportunity. Um, I've enjoyed every minute of it. It doesn't matter if it's been a meeting like this or a meeting where no one has showed up. I I'm I just love being engaged with the community. I'm um it's just a privilege to be able
to um to work towards helping our community, seeing um change in a positive manner and working with um great professionals like Matt, like Peter, like Marcy, like Tina, like Danell, like our soon new tobe CFO, um
like the mayor. Um it's really just a privilege. So, I'm I'm really happy that I was able to do it. And uh maybe I'll volunteer for something, mayor. I'll fill out a form. You got it. >> Okay. And thank you everyone and happy new year. >> Thank you all for attending. I know this
has been a difficult and emotional meeting and you all spoke from your heart. I think we also spoke from our heart and our decisions were based not on whims but on what we truly believe to be what's best for the community. All I
can say is uh in at my age uh 10 years from now, I hope to be around and I hope to be able to say it's looking pretty good. Uh if not, so be it. But I still think the decision that this council made this evening was the correct one
and for the betterment of our community. And that's the way I have conducted myself within uh with my time on the board of education and my time uh on this in service uh as town council
member. So with that I will say thank you wish you all a very merry Christmas belated and a happy new year coming up. Uh enjoy yourself and have a great time. Thank you. >> Happy new year everybody. >> I'm sorry.
>> Thanks Steve. Thank you. >> Thanks, Peter. Happy New Year, >> Peter. Thank you. >> Hey, Peter. >> Thanks so much for your your your your work this evening and for your >> your excellent handling of of this uh very very trying situation. Thank you.
>> U may I have a motion to journ? >> Motion. >> Motion made by Mrs. >> Yeah, I was excify by saying I. >> I. >> Meeting is adjourned. Thank you. >> You're good.
You'll be back. >> Yeah, I'll have a lot more free time. >> Yeah, you have to volunteer. Have to volunteer. >> So, can you sash Nice? Yep.
You're good. No, that wasn't on. >> Did a great job. Go. Go.