He owns it. And I and I told I said ordinances for public. Um here beer use more talking >> with these here. >> So >> yeah. So they have >> open it >> for each one of them, right? >> That's correct. >> For each individual
>> the second reading. >> Y this is >> second reading those two ordinances. Right. >> These two are the second. And this one's the first.
>> All right. Hey, are we okay? I got to fix this, too. >> Doesn't go up any higher. Okay. Do you want this? >> No, it's okay. Okay. 7 o'clock.
Welcome everybody. I'd like to call this meeting to order. Am I supposed to >> clerk the statement? >> Doesn't she have to read statement? Adequate notice of this regular meeting is provided to the public and the press
on January 22nd and 26 and was posted at the municipal building in accordance with meetings act NJSA 10 colon 4-7 to the flag of one nation want to make a statement that we have
Mr. Higgins and Brad Sparta on Zoom and they're attending the meeting. >> Yes, for roll call. >> Roll call. >> Council member Canino >> present. >> Council member Holmes >> here. >> Council member Rudo >> here. Council member Subarta
>> here. >> Sorry. >> Did you get me here? >> Yes, >> I got you. >> Okay. >> Council President Higgins >> here. >> Okay. First item is for discussion. New ladder truck purchase. Um,
>> yeah. I I not fire. Hold on. There he is. There he is. Okay. Oh, just came right from there to here. So, >> how are you? John K, the fire commissioner. Um, so the mayor asked me
to come speak about the ladder truck. I jotted a few notes down and you have any questions. Be happy to answer any of them afterwards. All right. So, the fire commissioner is voted by the current chiefs and ex- chiefs of all four fire companies.
That's what I represent. We voted at our last meeting. Well, guess it was in September. The next piece that we would like to replace would be the current ladder truck that's stationed in the Vernon company. All right. So, in 2004,
Vernon Fire Department's envision the growth of the town of Vernon and the need for a second ladder. The latter has served the past 21 years as the council has seen growth on the commercial side. The Appalachian Hotel, Red Tail Lodge, Hidden Valley Resort, residential growth in areas like High
Ridge, Vernon View, Upper Plateau, and Murphy Court to name a few. The role of ladder truck is to get to the fire building and provide exit points not only for the residents but the firemen as well. The ladder not only has the aerial device on but carries multiple different length ground ladders that we
throw to windows on all sides of the structure to provide exit points for us as firemen andor the residents if things go bad. This is why this type of specialty truck needs to arrive quickly to the scene so it's all of its resources can be utilized and they're literally utilized
right now. I just left the call. The main issue with the current ladder, not only is its age, it's a 2005, so it's in its 21st year of service to the town of Vernon, but the manufacturer went out of business over 10 years ago, finding parts, making parts hard to find
in a repair facility that wants to work on the truck even harder. This is why this will be our we had four of these American France apparatus. This will be the last one that we still have. The rest have been replaced in the last three years and one's on order.
Um, this resulted in 2025 of the current ladder being out of service for 157 days and a cost that I received from the DPW $88,211 in repairs. >> Excuse me. Can you repeat that again?
>> Out of service for 157 days. The nominal value was $48,211. That's a nominal cost. But does the life safety of the residents of Vernon have a dollar value? The fire departments have three options we're exploring to replace the current one as technology has changed over the
past 21 years. The current truck is a single axle chassis with a 75 ft aerial device. This was the all that was offered then in the single axle configuration to complement the 105 ft ladder that was stationed at the MAC
firehouse. Um, currently MAC has a 2019 100 foot tower ladder which instead of just having a ladder at the end, it has a bucket which was especially designed with wheelchair width doors to make rescues off balconies in the condos,
ladders and what was proposed in 2019 and now reality 55 and over uh multi-story buildings. Now offered on single axle chassis are 75, 77, and 105 foot.
Um, as well as the 100 foot tandem configuration. Uh, the fire chiefs and myself have we're working on meeting with three manufacturers is scheduled to bring demos of each of the type of units to the town of Vernon to make sure that they will fit our needs and our road
conditions. Over the last 20 years, they make wheel bases shorter, turning ang radiuses, so we might be able to get more with the same spot the current 21-y old one does. As a fire commissioner, want to be confident that we are wisely spending the taxpayers money on a truck
that will get used throughout the entire township. We're looking at what the manufacturers call a stock program, which is a 20 24-month turnaround versus a 48 plus month turnaround of a custom unit. So instead of picking every single
option, you have three choices of each thing. This will get us a truck at a cheaper cost and the sooner it arrives, the less chance of maintenance on the current one. And one of the other things that bothers the fire chiefs,
um, if it doesn't get approved, even if it does get approved, uh, would have to consider raising the dollar amount that DPW is allowed or has in their budget for emergency vehicles because over the last two years, that
current truck took most of the budget. Been other rigs throughout the town unrepaired because of the money was gone. I told the mayor when I met with him, it's a big you have the budget. We budgeted $2 million.
Um, so you can look at is paying the bond note or you pay the repairs. He asked me what we use it for and do we need it? I use the analogy to him. It's like being a mechanic and having one adjustable wrench is the only tool you
have. It's our tool in our toolbox to serve the citizens of Vern. And with the 2 million was the worst case scenario. The 75 foot one on stock version was I think 1.6 million and then they were
like 17 and a half for 105 foot on a single axle and the tan version would be 1085. That was at September pricing. That's how we came up with the the $2 million
part. So, should be under that. >> Can you send us an email with those prices? >> Yeah, I have that email. I could you have I could forward that to you. Y >> just a question. During the time that the ladder truck was out of service, what did you guys do when it was in when
it was called for? How did you manage those? >> We just make do and move resources around. We had a ladder truck from uh Warwick, New York on mutual aid, but this type of thing is timesensitive. So by the time they come, you know, really
we rolled the odds and we're fortunate that nothing happened while it was out of service. >> Thank you. >> The only ladder truck in town is the one you have. >> Um it's this one that we're talking about is stationed in Vernon. Makabe has theirs. It's just stationed in Mcabe.
>> Oh, so M McAfee has one. That has a there's a 105 ft tower ladder which has the bucket for doing the uh specialized rescues. This would just have a ladder just a regular ladder on >> Okay. So that's that's McAfee, right?
>> Yep. So we use McAfee's. >> So we had a fire in the meantime. >> Yeah, we used theirs and we used relied on mutual aid. >> Okay. And then any other fire? What about a Highland Lakes? Do they have a L? >> No. Highland Lakes and Pochuk only have uh engines and tankers.
>> Oh, okay. Thank you. >> So, we rely on, you know, the resources come out of the center of town in the valley to the outskirts. Most of the bigger development is here in the 94 corridor. >> Would you be able to supply me or the council
with a breakdown of their rolling stock by individual uh houses? >> Absolutely. I get confused that thank God I'm not I'm not called out with them. You guys don't you don't need me.
>> And as far as the the actual uh usage of the uh trucks, uh give me a better idea of what's going on. >> How much we use each one, you mean? Or >> No, that's not necessary. I just want to know what we're what's what's taking the
place of what, you know? >> Okay. You guys, I don't know if I did I forward you an email, but the 157 days. I'm not sure if I did. I know I forwarded the invoices. >> I saw in the schedule the or the agenda what Pete from DPW emailed me was on
your the agenda packet. >> What size ladder would you need for Legend if you were to be called there? >> The 100. So the problem with Vernon and like if you go into a city type structure, the houses are there's a parking spot,
sidewalk, and then the building. So our problem in Vernon is you have setbacks. So you use half of the ladder length just going from the driveway or the road to reach the house. >> Mhm. >> That's part of the reason we're exploring the option of maybe upgrading
from the 75 to get another 25 ft of reach. >> Would Legends be the highest building in town? Um, the highest, yes. The farthest reach, no. Because you can get pretty close to a lot of the key, >> but for other structures, you need the extra. >> Yeah.
>> Okay, that's good explanation. Does anybody have any questions? Questions? You guys have any questions? >> No, it's good. Good update. Thank you. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Any other questions? The mayor knows my
email and give me a call. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Well, thank you very much. Thank you for your presentation. Thank you. >> Okay. Mayor's comments. President Ronald Reagan first proclaimed April uh to be the National Child
Prevention uh month in 1983. Since then, April has been a time to acknowledge that importance of families and communities working together to prevent child abuse. By rallying around our neighbors, businesses, schools, friends, and families, we can make a difference
in the lives of the children in our community. By promoting safety uh awareness and dialogue, we can prevent abuse from happening in the first place and help keep our children safe. In recognition of the collaborations needed to help prevent
child abuse and neglect, please join us again this year. This is the Jenny's house. Um this year by proclaiming proclaiming April as the child abuse prevention month uh in our town as uh thank you for your cooperation. So
therefore, I have a proclamation, child abuse prevention month proclamation. Whereas child abuse and neglect is a complex and ongoing problem in our society affecting many children in Sussex County. And whereas every child
is entitled to be loved, cared for, nurtured, feel secure, and be free from verbal, sexual, emotional, and physical abuse and neglect. And whereas child abuse and neglect not only directly harm
children but also increase the the like likelihood of child of criminal behavior, substance abuse, health problems and risky behavior. Whereas the effects of child abuse are felt by communities as a whole and need to be
addressed by the entire community. Whereas effective children child abuse prevention programs succeed because of the partnerships among families, social service agendas, schools, religious and
civic organizations, law enforcement agencies, and the business community. Now therefore be it resolved that the Vernon Township does proclaim April as child abuse prevention month and calls upon all citizens, community agencies,
faith groups, medical facilities, and businesses to increase their participation in our efforts to support families thereby preventing child abuse and strengthening the communities in which we are
live. Thank you. Uh this week I will be putting out on the Vernon Township Facebook page is our roads that will be paved for 2026 that is tentative. Um but it just gives
you an idea of of most of the areas that we will be doing. Um which would probably include most of Lake Wanda. um Anastere Road and several other communities. But I I will put that out there um this week so everyone can see
um what what we have planned for for 2026. >> Well, that's that's all my comments. >> Okay. Thank you. Um I'd like to make a motion to open the floor to public comment.
Motion. >> Motion. Moved. >> Thank you. Second. So please note public comments are limited to three minutes per person >> on current agenda items only. Anybody
wishing to speak must state their name for the record. May I have a motion? Oh well, we already opened it. So >> just roll call. >> Roll call. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta.
>> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Is there anybody that would like to come up? Maybe we're in Edwards. Thanks. Um, this is in regards to something on Bill's list. Um, it's Viola Water New Jersey,
Inc. Water upgrade project. I don't know what paint is on it says 046 and as a reference because I screenshot the reference information price on that is $126,710. I'm just curious what that's for if we
give some information as well on that. Um secondly, I'm hoping that maybe at one time point the public can stand over here or sit over here. um could see you very well and I just hate that my back
is to the to the camera. You see going the door with gray hair or whatever. I don't know. It's >> I hear you there. >> And um Oh, and there was also one other thing on Bill's list. 15,000 plus for a um I think a police department car. I
don't know what that was for. That's a that's a big ticket item as well. So those are the three things I wanted to mention. Do you have the numbers and we will ask >> the numbers on what? Uh >> 46. Well, like I said, it says 046. I don't know if I'm going to read the
numbers on the bills list. >> 224 26 that viola is 65534. It's on page six. >> I think it's on the upgrade.
Maybe that's 34. I'm sorry. Yeah. 34. Oh, the water 34. I got to put my glasses on. >> No,
>> page six. >> Okay, we will ask about that and I have a few questions myself. Was that the only one on the appeals list? Oh, he's gone. lease that like 15,000 for I don't know but it's an accident repair
that I don't think I see it I can't find the 15,000 I see the first Thank you. That's it. So 15,000 for dental dentist >> for the dentist. Yes, I see that.
>> Maybe it say No, I don't see it. Dorine, why don't you email it to me your question? Okay. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Okay. Anybody from the public? Anybody
else from the public like to come up >> to discuss the viola thing later or whatever? >> I'm going when we discuss the bills list. >> Thank you. >> Motion to close. Executive or I'm sorry. >> Motion to close to the public. >> Moved. >> Okay. Roll call.
>> Roll call. Council >> member. >> Yes. >> Council member zones. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins.
>> Yes. >> Okay. The review of bills. Does anybody have any questions, comments? Um, >> I do have a question. >> Yes, that I know I have a list. So, we'll add that to the list. Um, so I
just have a question just several. Um, 65493 IT consultant. First of all, is that a yearly charge, monthly charge? And what exactly does the IT consultant do?
>> Well, um, like I said, I I sent you guys an email. Any questions, please send them to us. >> Yeah. Well, I figured the bills, you know, what it people are doing. >> Yes. Um, we'll get is that all your questions on the bills? >> No, I have several others. >> Okay. If you can give me those, I'll jot
it down and then we'll get back to you on those. You don't know what the web designer's doing or >> well explanatory, right? But I'll give you more. Pardon >> me. >> Tell me what those are. I'll write them down and then we'll get them back to you or I could discuss the next council
meeting. I have no problems doing that. >> Okay. >> Make sure we are dotting our eyes and crossing our tees. Okay. So, if you can give me those. >> Okay. Here you go. Go ahead. >> 65493. Yep. Does anybody else want to fill in while
I look for mine? Do you guys have any questions? So question is what does the IT consultant do? Is this a monthly charge, yearly charge? This the consultant fee. Uh number 65526
website design and maintenance $3,38. And are you redesigning the website? It does need work. It needs information uploaded to it. So what is this person going to do for 3000 or did I don't see any changes on
it on the website or is those changes coming forward? You can also just Miss Edwards asked about the Viola Water New Jersey upgrade 65534
$127,560. Anybody else have any questions? Yeah, I see the lease payments. I'd like to question that. So, the car leases, um, if you'd send me a total number of the amount of cars we have, and I see it
was for 77,000, one charge, then you have a separate lease. Um, I'd like to know how many cars we have, and are those lease, is that a payment every month, every quarter? How do we handle that? And then I see a
charge from enterprise. Just curious. I mean, we're leasing these. >> It's like whenever we whenever we um like certain vehicles have certain, you know, times like if you to lease a vehicle now, that'll have its own separate charge and continue on. Just
like if you were to own several vehicles in in in your family, right? Those at different times will have different payment times, too. So that's where those those lease and things sometimes they're bulked together um but sometimes they are sporadic a little bit. So but
we'll get you more lease information. Okay. >> Anybody else have any questions? >> Yeah. I just it's not a question. It's just a comment on 65506 for the CFO as she's putting the budget together.
Fuel oil cost that's rising rapidly. Please take that into consideration. Okay, moving on. Good. Consent agenda. Does anybody want anything pulled out? >> Can I have 26100 pulled, please? Sure.
Okay. >> Motion for consent agenda resolution 26110 to resolution 26117. >> Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Yes. >> For those following. >> So moved.
>> Second. >> Second. >> Second. All in favor? >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Razudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes.
>> Motion carries. >> Okay. Does anybody want to discuss 26-100 amend authorizing signatures on township checks? >> I'll make that motion to NJSA 4A
5-16. >> Motion was made by Mr. Sparta. Is there a second? >> Second. >> And it's to move it and discuss. >> Um yes, just following up on the meeting that we had um with our CSO. Yes.
building. Go ahead. >> Following up on the meeting that we have with our CFO uh last week, uh one of the things I asked her was to explain the purchasing process from the time somebody wanted something until the time it was paid. And she she walked us through it pretty good. And um I think
that, you know, she's the last one that sees the wreck to sign it to make it a PO and that's what certifies the funds. Um, so I that signature I think is the most important signature
in the process. I have a concern that if we have her um sign all the checks that eventually it's going to become cumbersome. Uh there may be issues with holding up payment. Um and I am I not a
fan of having pre-signed checks. Um I think that would be a huge mistake to do. So, um, because of that, I'm going to, uh, I'm going to be voting no on this resolution. >> Okay. Thank you. Anybody have any other
comments or discussion? >> No, I do. It's probably the third time we've discussed it and we spent a lot of time on this. Probably more time than we do on other important items. It is good governance. I think Miss Holmes, you've
uh proven the point with your research that there's some justification in this. If it causes a problem, we can always revert back to a different system, but uh I'll be voting in favor. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Higgins. Anybody else? >> Yeah, I have a question. I'd like to
>> um We're not answering questions. >> Excuse me. >> No questions. You question time. You won't answer ours. It's because I I will get you back, but you're you're over here about to make a decision that can affect >> day-to-day operations of the municipality.
>> I'd like to make a motion to adopt resolution. >> Can I ask why is this issue now being raised? >> Motion. >> Okay. Is there a specific transaction or that prompted the demands? >> Roll call vote, please.
>> Roll call member. >> Yes. Council member Owens, >> yes. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> no. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> But this is, let me tell you something, okay? To me,
>> um, we'd like to heard from the attorney, you've heard from two CFOs, that this process, there's no state law that recommends this, but yet too much. >> Go ahead. >> We would like to move >> something in place. If you're out of
order, not out of order. I am not out of order. You need to read the town lines. I am allowed to be involved. >> The meeting >> and then the meeting. >> End it. I'll go home. It's no big deal. >> Five minutes. Five minutes. We'll come back and do folks here that that don't
show any signs of issues. >> Recess. Five minutes. >> I've taken my vote. >> Oh, >> I'd like to make a motion to recess for five minutes. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I can't have this at every meeting. >> Yeah, exactly.
>> Cannot have this. >> I'm sorry. Something is going to have to be seriously done. >> Wow. >> Why don't we let Mr. talk before we >> Yeah, I move him to >> Thank you. Uh Matt, you have to talk on
the ordinances. Correct. >> We don't know why you're here. >> Okay. >> I do have do have questions. >> What ordinance read? >> Okay.
>> So, we can manage to fire up a few. >> Questions. We're just here. We want to make sure >> we do have questions. >> Yeah. We didn't know that you were coming to speak, but since you're here, I got some questions.
Thank you. And thank you also for um your explanation about the pilot payments. >> Okay. >> And that was a question I have that makes sure that now everything is set with that. >> So then when you when you go back, you can do the ordinance for first. It's
easy. >> Okay. And then you know >> read the um um by title. Is that what we do? >> Yeah. You know motion to >> discussion
>> second reading >> ordinance 2605 ordinance to >> uh repeal and replace existing >> chapters. answer motion to discuss it. Second,
>> you discussed things. >> Well, not the first one, right? >> Not the first one. The second, the last two. >> Yeah. So, these are the last two, >> right? So, this one is >> just by first, just by title. >> Yeah. So, I'll just Yeah.
>> Make a motion first reading. to introduce it and then I read it. >> Yes. >> Just we read our town ordinance before you spew out false information. >> No, I'm not reading anything. Oh,
>> this is again, we're going to be looking at the code, so that may change. That's next on the list. >> What are we recessing for? >> Okay. this meeting to order. We'll continue. >> Um, we're going to do item 10,
>> introduction of ordinances. May I have a motion to introduce ordinance 26077? >> On first reading. >> Why does that have a question? >> On first read. On first reading. >> On first reading. 07. I'm sorry. >> Move.
>> Second. >> Second. >> The ordinance number 2607. >> Do we have to do roll call? >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> Council member Canino. >> Yes. >> Council member Higgins. >> Yes.
>> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council. >> Out of order. >> Council member Sparta. Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Can I just read it now? >> Yeah. Yes.
>> Ordinance 26-7, an ordinance of the township of Vernon in the county of Sussex, New Jersey, amending the McAfee Village commercial resort development plan. >> That'll be read uh introduced on second
reading and open to the public. On what date, Adam? >> Be April 13th. >> On April 13th. >> Okay. >> For public comment. >> And we go to ordinances for second
reading. >> Yeah. Just do you want Jessup to come up here? >> Yes. >> If you want. >> Mr. Jessup, do you want to come up? I guess they want you. I don't know. You may want to find out why you asked here. We weren't aware that you were scheduled. I I I think it's probably to discuss the two ordinances that are on
for second reading. >> Yeah. I mean, I volunteered to come in the event that any of the council members had any questions on either the resolution that authorized the execution of an escrow agreement, which has since been approved through the consent agenda
vote, or the ordinance on first reading, understanding that of course there is a process, including a planning board hearing and a public hearing before final adoption. um in April. Nonetheless, this obviously has the potential to be a meaningful project.
So, we wanted to be here in the event that you uh had any questions relative to the items that were on your agenda for today. >> Does anybody have any questions? Questions? Mr. Sparta, Mr. Higgins, do you have questions? >> Not at this time.
>> Okay. I have a question. >> Sure. >> So, the 50,000 escrow, what does that include? >> What does it include? What does the escrow cover? >> Yes, >> it covers all of the township's professional costs in connection with any work that the township needs to do
to get the project from where it is today to where it may potentially be developed and opened >> and it can be supplemented further down. So by the terms of the escrow agreement, it is funded and if it reaches a
threshold bottom amount, it is automatically required to be refilled. So it is an ever replenishing escrow. The purpose of course is to ensure that neither the township nor ultimately the taxpayers are paying for the township's
exploratory investigative due diligence and then work in connection with the potential development of the legends. This is not uncommon by the way. Any of your other redevelopment projects all work the same way. >> So let me ask you this question. So your
due diligence does that require or do you do a background check on the developer and do they show you financials and tax returns? >> So it all depends each of those depend on the circumstance. So whether we do a background check on the developer can
depend on whether it's a developer we or the township or others your other professionals have worked with before, have worked throughout the state of New Jersey before, or are new players that nobody knows. With respect to financials, we do see project financials
um as a part of any analysis. You see project and have seen summaries at least of project financials. Maybe not this current governing body but prior governing bodies in the same position have seen summaries of project financials um of the developer corporation uh in connection with development projects.
>> What about so yeah that's project financials but about their financials? So again, it all depends on how they're being financed. So if they're being financed primarily through a construction loan, we want to make sure we understand the construction loan. We also certainly want to
understand the equity side, right? The balance that's not being funded by the construction loan. We want to know that they have 100% of the money in order to be able to complete their project. >> Okay.
Do you get references from other towns? >> Again, it depends on the circumstance, right? There are developers in New Jersey. The typical what I'll call sort of residential over retail, right? Ground floor retail, three to four stories of residential. You know, they
are doing dozens and dozens and dozens of projects throughout New Jersey for the last 30 or 40 years. Are those developers? Are we getting a background check on that developer? No. you know, we and others in the community, other towns are working with them on a daily basis. But if you have somebody that
comes in that we're not as familiar with, we certainly want to undertake enough due diligence to feel comfortable that they have the capability to undertake and complete the project. Remember that the developer is the only one at risk, right? So it's often a
balance of you know we want to know that the person that we are partnering with can get it done but in the event that they can't we are not harmed by it other than the lost opportunity cost. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Anybody any other questions? >> Yeah Matt on this project this is part of land owned by the McAfee firehouse that would be granted to the town. Is that part of this? >> Yeah, that's obviously not the Legends
property, but um in our preliminary discussions with the developer, the proposed developer for the Legends property, we are discussing and would include in a redevelopment agreement um their contribution of land u that is
basically next to the McAfee fire station for the benefit of McAfee firehouse. Thank you. >> Council President, would you like me to uh explain a little bit more about that property? >> Yes, I would. >> Sure. So, once you step foot outside of
the McAfee Firehouse, they don't own that property. So, they just own the buildings. They don't own the property outside of the firehouse. Um, it is owned by by legends. And one of the things that we've been working on um is
trying to have that property donated uh to the fire department. They and they've they've agreed to that. So um hopefully that's that's happening in the next couple of months. Um that would help the fire department be able to do some things with their property. It also brings it it brings a tremendous value
to to their current lot, their current building, too. So >> thank you I think you're good. >> All right. >> But thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, M.
>> He's yelling at me too much. He should be sending them home then. >> You want to try to introduce the ordinances question? >> Okay. Um We have two ordinances. Second reading.
May I have a motion to open the public hearing for ordinance 26 0-5 or 05 rather? >> Moved. >> Second. >> Second.
>> Um roll call. Council member Canino, >> yes. >> Council member, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes. >> Motion carries.
>> Anyone from >> Yeah. Anybody from the public like to come up? >> I'll read the title. The title is ordinance to repeal and replace existing chapter 133 affordable housing of the municipal code of the township of Vernon. Motion to open.
>> I made the motion already. Would anybody from the public like to come up? >> No. >> See? >> I'd like to make a motion to close public session. >> Moved.
>> Second. Well, I made the motion. Roll call. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes.
>> Motion carries. >> May I have a motion to adopt ordinance 26-05? >> Move. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols.
>> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> She carries. >> Okay. The second uh second reading, Ordinance 26-06,
ordinance to repeal and replace the existing article um 14, affordable housing of the municipal code of the township of Vernon. May I have a motion to open public hearing for ordinance 266?
>> Moved. >> Second. Second. >> All in favor? >> I would anybody from the public like to come up and comment? >> I'm Kathy Whitty and I'm from Vernon. I
just muted. Whoops. Okay. Um just an explanation as to what we're doing. What are we replacing it with the terminology? You're saying you're going to repeal and replace? Repealing. What are we replacing with? Doing it. That's what I
want to know. >> New affordable housing laws. >> What's the change? >> Oh, it's very lengthy. I can't say I personally can't say for sure what >> what's the change? Is it a change in in income? Is it a change in what we have
to provide? Now, I understand affordable housing and that's a wonderful thing, but I just wanted to know why we're changing the rules now. And what's what's the change? >> It's to accommodate the affordable housing that we must >> Didn't we didn't we have before?
>> I don't think we did. >> Wasn't it an update to just the verbiage and the amounts or something? It wasn't anything huge. I might be >> It was a lot to digest. I will say that >> there's a copy of it right here.
>> You could ask Mr. Jess. >> Copy. That's all I can do. >> That's okay. I appreciate it. >> Voting on. We don't know what the change really is. >> No, we we looked into this weeks ago and it's most
>> have to trust you. Yes. And we >> trust as far as I can spit into the wind. Especially these days. Thank you. Anybody else from the public like to speak? Okay, seeing no one coming forward, I'd
like to close public session. Do I have a motion to close? >> Second. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols, >> yes. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. Council member Sparta. >> Yes.
>> Council President Hayes. >> Yes. >> Motion carry. >> May I have a motion to adopt ordinance 26-06? >> Move. Moved. >> Second. >> Vocal.
>> Council member Canino. >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. >> Council member Spark. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes. Motion carries. >> I'd like to open to public comment. Do I
have a motion? >> It's limited to 5 minutes on any topic. Do I have a motion to open public comment? >> Moved. >> Second. >> My name is Christa Gary. I >> roll call. >> Wait one second. Crystal, we need a roll
call. >> Sorry. >> All in favor? >> Okay. I >> I >> I >> First, I'd like to thank Paul Cino for his dedication and concern for the people of Bernie Township. >> And I'd like to thank the mayor for
supplying us with a police officer tonight, especially with the crazy people that we have around here sometimes. Yeah. I believe that uh some kind of order needs to take place in our
political scene. I am referring to the oftentimes obnoxious posts on the mayor's Facebook. It seems as if the individual who is transmitting these has multiple fictitious personalities.
This person is a clever manipulator with a facade of nomality whereby those who are supporting this behavior are being deceived. We are dealing with someone who is wired differently than most people and who goes between right and
wrong on a daily basis and is unable to control what he says or writes. Since this person has an apparent personality disorder, he is constantly targeting people that he is obsessed with by
disparaging them and creating conflicts. This person seems to have no remorse or empathy for others as he continues to harm and harass people for the fun of it. It seems as if he never learns from
his mistakes as he believes he's above the law and that he is the victim. Unfortunately, someone like this is only capable of hostility. I also believe that more brave and bold
citizens need to speak up against this abhorrent behavior. For the common good of everyone in our community, moral law needs to be restored and these posts condemned
freedom of speech was never meant to include hate speech. And I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Anybody else from the public like to speak?
comments. One of them is in the last meeting you talked about possibly opening up the um people for the zoom to comment on and I hope you pursue that a little bit further a piece of discussion again um that would afford others to comment um because if they're watching
and they're really interested that's important for the community and they're probably taxpayers as well. Um in the same vein um Mr. Mr. King, you had addressed, well, you really didn't address the issue when the town council was talking about an issue that they
wanted to address the night, the previous meeting about signatures, if I'm not mistaken, and nothing was said whether you could do it or not. People said you couldn't do it because it was on the agenda. I think Mr. King, you should check that um the
law and make sure that that's 100% correct. I noticed tonight there was a question and you didn't counsel the our township council either on what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. So, I'm wondering, you know, are you just there to look pretty or or what?
>> Thank you for the compliment. >> You're welcome. Even though you told me you didn't weren't impressed with me. >> I am now. >> Oh, thank you. Um, so I understand that, um, comment made by the mayor was that a a party, I guess the owner of the property
for McAfee Firehouse Crowns, has agreed to donate the property to McAfee Fire House, which is wonderful, but I'm wondering who is that? Because if that's the same owner of Legends, I'm just curious because that ball has been bouncing back forever back and forth.
They're going to buy it. They're not going to buy it. I don't really know. I didn't research who has ownership right now. So, I don't know. Can I ask permission to >> This is the first we've heard of it. So, I've never known that. So, I can't even ask. Are you I'm sorry.
>> So, apparently there is a developer interested in Legends. Is that what we could take from? >> I think Yeah. >> And that's part of the issues why we're repealing and replacing on the different ordinances to make that happen. Well,
that's the first reading ordinance. Yeah. And it will go to land use, >> right? >> I mean, one of the figures has been sitting there for how many years? We got to do something. You know, it just can't sit and rot even more than
it is. So, you know, it's if we could get our tax money from it, but good governance and dotting your eyes and crossing your tees, please. Thank you. >> Thank you very much for commenting. Anybody else like to come up?
>> Come on up. >> I had physical therapy today. So I am just like wanting to go home. >> That's fine. >> So last week I think I heard you all talking about how >> ma'am just for the regular name. >> Sorry. Kathy Whitty Vernon. Um >> Kathy
>> Witty Wii TT. Actually it's Johnson Whitty. You want the whole name? >> No. Um, last week you were talking about how are you going to build the sewage for uh the Grove? Well, I don't know why it's a
question. It's the same thing with the condos. Great gorge. They have a flat fee. A twobedroom over there pays $291 a quarter. They get a bill beginning of the year just like we get our taxes.
They have to pay $291 a quarter whether they're there or not. If it's vacant, too big. We're still charging sewer. So, I'm going to guess we have separate rules then for the Grove. They have a number of vacancies over there. They're
not being charged for sewer. But if there's a vacant condo in Great Gorge, they're being charged because they don't get metered water. They have metered water, but they don't get metered sewer. I really hope and pray that we are not
we Vernon are not going to give special dispensation to a developer and yet not give that same dispensation to our residents to our voters because that would be I believe in my heart that would be discrimination
on one person. Oh, I'm sorry. You have to pay that. Oh, you're a developer. You know what? It's we don't care. We're not going to worry about it. That is blatant discrimination in my opinion. Okay. And the other thing is they're calling for a hardship over there for connecting. Was that a
surprise? Did they not know that they had to connect? Was that a surprise? And they're going to build something else and that they're going to have another hardship. We are not stupid. But I think people have turned a blind
eye to this developer and this development. And I think maybe it's time, as you just before, time out. Everybody stop, go back, take another look at what we're getting into because I don't think, and I don't care about the pilot, it's just the whole thing. I
don't think that this was a wellthoughtout development. I just don't think it was. They can't rank them. I mean, what they're charging right now, it's ridiculous. They're offering agents bonuses for bringing people in
and nobody wants to go. I thank you all very much and everybody get home safe. >> Thank you. Thank you for your comment. >> Anybody else like to come out? >> Uh good evening Kirk Stevens Bern. Um, I don't have any prepared remarks tonight,
so I'm just going to speak off the cuff and apologies if it's not uh as coherent, but um, you know, as they say, the squeaky hinge gets the oil. So, I apologize for being
being here and being a bit repetitious and but, you know, all these weeks of coming here, I'm asking for how can we fix this? how can we forward how how can we collaborate and it's um you know miss you did sort of suggest
that well perhaps you know the council can create a priorities list and perhaps pilot can be one of the things on there and Mr. Higgins had a very nice bedside manner and was also, you know, acknowledging what has been said and sort of made passing reference that, oh, don't worry, we'll, you know, we're on
it. Um, I guess I just like something a bit more concrete or a bit more impactful to to really say, hey, yes, you know, we hear you. This this is getting a lot of eyeballs and yes we are going to you know involve the public and
we are going to you know take steps to uh have a conversation especially to the extent there's perhaps other development in the works and you know as they say uh an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So you know the more we can get ahead of these things and just have
alignment and have you know cohesion in the community I think that's just a positive. Um, so again, I'm I'm just here to ask you all to communicate more forcefully to the public to say, "We do hear you and and
this is what we're going to do. This is when we're going to do it. This is how we're going to do it. This is how we're going to engage you." Um, I think in the past I had brought up how the board of ed is communicating the new superintendent. And you know, I think when I brought it up, it was dismissed a little bit to, you
know, like, oh, that meeting didn't really accomplish much or oh, you know, didn't really take it that seriously. But whether it accomplished anything or it didn't accomplish anything or whether it was productive or not, you know, the board of ed has has had very good communication and, you know, as a parent
with someone in the school, I'm getting texts, I'm getting emails, I'm on this list, I'm getting reminders to say, "Hey, please come tell us what you want. Please help us come set priorities. please give us your your feedback. And then there's follow-ups to say, "Okay, we heard you. This is what we're going to take away from it, etc." So, you
know, I get that there's a lot of different pressing matters in the town and there's potentially limited resources to do stuff and, you know, it's a bit of a triage situation. You have new staff coming on. You got to get a budget done. And I don't want to be ignorant of that and and think that, you know, this is this is the number one
issue on count. I I get that maybe it's not. Um, But I think we still need to say something to to the community to say, you know, we hear you and we're going to work on it and something a little bit more forceful. Um,
you know, I've been for the last 15 years, I really take pride in the fact that I've managed to stay fairly neutral in this community. I think in the last council session I I lost my patience a little bit and I apologize for speaking out of line outside of the public comment section but
you know I just I am losing my patience a bit and you know I often thought that I was I was I've been called to serve Vernon through farming and and and through that end of it and it it really seems like I'm probably
more so needed here and helping guide things here. I mean I have extensive financial background and budgeting background etc. done a lot of u real estate transactions and so I mean I'm here as a resource. I want to work with you. I don't want to
distract you. I don't want to create issues. I don't want to agitate. Um but there needs to be communication. Um you know I would say the the offer is still open to the mayor if he wants to sit down and just just talk. um and as
as you as you as well. Um but again, the public is agitating and and there's they want to take action. They want to to do more initiatives and you know, I'd rather again do this in a collaborative way. So I I will leave it at that. Thank you for your attention and again
appreciate in the comments if you can give me something a little bit more to uh to go on. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for coming up in your comments. Thank you. Would anybody else like to the podium? >> Okay. I'd like to make a motion to close
public session. >> Some moved. >> Second. >> What? >> Council member Kins. >> Yes. >> Council member. >> Yes. >> Council member Ruda. >> Yes. >> Council member Spla.
>> Yes. Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Caril comments. >> Um, >> so I just wanted to bring attention to something. I had at the last meeting
requested a corrective action plan um in response to the fees that were not paid. Uh let me move my mic a little bit closer. Can everyone hear me better now? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, at the last meeting, I had requested for a corrective action plan
um in response to the schuma connection fees that were not paid by Theta Grove. Um and we have not received that. it's not on the agenda. Um so I'm going to read into the record a resolution that I had submitted um prior that was not on
the agenda where I directly asked for um an investigation and a corrective action plan. So resolution of the council of Vernon Township requiring an investigation report and corrective action plan for Mayor Anthony Rossi regarding the issuance of certificates
of occupancy prior to all prerequisite requirements. Whereas in the year dated 2024, building permits were applied for and received by the O'Neal Group LLC aka OneKey LLC for a 55 unit building with a
55- year age restriction at 7 theta drive in Vernon. And whereas on December 9th, 29th, 2025, approximately 55 certificates of occupancy were issued to the same owners or developers for the units at 7theta Drive, Vernon, without
all the township required prerequisite obligations being satisfied. And whereas there exists requirements to be satisfied in several municipal departments under the authority of the mayor and subsequently the business administrator prior to the issuance of certificates of occupancy. And whereas
there exists email correspondence referring to the breakdown in communications and procedures resulting in the sewer connection fees for 7theta drive Vernon in the amount of $76,972.50 owed to the Vernon Township Municipal Sewer Authority not paid which remain
outstanding to the state. And whereas there exists email correspondence referring to a breakdown referring to a breakdown of communications and procedures resulting in the sewer connection fees in the amount of $213,472.75
owed to the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority not paid which remain outstanding to the state. And whereas the Sussex County Municipal Utilities Authority filed a first priority lean claim on 7th Drive, Vernon with the Sussex County Clerk on February
6, 2026 for their unpaid sewer connection fees of $213,470.75. And whereas the first priority lean claim poses a serious concern to the Vernon Township Council as the lean document states the property is subject to sale to satisfy the amount asserted
by the claim. While Vernon Township has financial ties to this property, it also directs the Vernon tax collect the first pri priority lean um a lot of words first priority lean claim to satisfy the claim amount together with all interest costs, attorney fees,
collection costs and service chars is authorized under the municipal and county utilities law. And whereas there exists email correspondence dated in November 8th, 2025 between Mayor Anthony Rossi and the Vernon Township um utility
authority director Donald Bright 7 weeks prior to the issuance of certificates of occupancy whereby the mayor is requesting a hardship application on behalf of the property owners so they may apply for a hardship payment plan to the VTMUA for the unpaid sewer connection fees. Therefore,
demonstrating Mayor Anthony Rossy was fully aware the sewer connections fees had not been paid. And whereas the obvious lack of sufficient oversight, an improper sequence of events have resulted in um have resulted in placing Vernon Township, the Vernon Municipal Utility Authority, and the Sussex County
Municipal Utilities Authority in a position that could cause severe financial consequences. Now therefore be it resolved that the Vernon Township Council of Ver of Vernon Township Vernon County of Sussex State of New Jersey makes the following demands. Mayor
Anthony Rossi conduct an internal investigation pertaining to the certificates of occupancy being issued for 7th drive Vernon prematurely before all prerequisite township requirements are satisfied to identify how it happened. Two, prepare and submit a
detailed report regarding the same to the council no later than 30 days from the date of approval of this resolution. And three, present to the council a corrective action plan no later than 30 days from the date of the approval of this resolution. So, I just want the public to know that I am doing
everything I can. >> Yes. Um, and also in relation to ordinance 2606, um, a member of the public had stated we need to make sure we do our homework. I just want them to know. I did read through this whole thing. It's
very complex. It's hard to answer on the spot. Um, but I do know what the changes are. I have it highlighted and it's procedural. It's nothing that really changes the world. So, thank you. back. Mr. Rudo, do you have any comment?
Yeah, as we move towards the spring and this happened in my own neighborhood, I see the youngsters moving out into the street before where before it was too cold and now they're playing, running around and I just caution drivers to
please uh be careful uh look around uh watch your uh your travel areas and uh we certainly don't need any tragedies. in the uh in in the township. And thank
you again for the to the members of our EMS and fire the fire officials and the fire departments for their and the police for their uh and certainly the department uh public
works for their great action this past winter. It's been a brutal one and the fact that we had a lot of cars uh on the road very quickly after heavy snowfalls, I think it speaks well of the plans that
the uh heads of these departments uh make for the people uh who are uh employed by these departments. And thank you very much. That's all. >> Oh, thank you, Mr. Risoto. Risoto. Um, I
really don't have many comments. The only thing I'm urging is the council after we do the budget. Um, I believe we're going to have to have several budget meetings with it being delayed. I wish we would have gotten a draft budget. We could start on it.
Um, but after we get through the budget, I would like to have work sessions and develop objectives and goals. I see a lot of things that need to be changed. I think we have to take a good look at the code. There's lots of changes that need to be done and updated in the code. Um
there's a lot of other changes that we've been discussing. Some of these resolutions need to be reconsidered and written differently to be compliant. Um we have to take a look at a lot of a big long list of things that need to be examined and we would like the I would
like the public input. I would like to invite you to the work session. mature town, too. So, um I would just hope that everybody takes this serious and that we could do some work and change for the better going forward after the budget.
>> So, that's all I have to say. >> Mr. Spartan. >> Yeah. Mr. Sparta, do you have anything to say? >> Any comment? >> No, I'm good. Thank you very much. >> Mr. Higgins? >> Yes, I do. I have three or four different things. First off, there's
been a lot of talk on uh Facebook and other means of communication around town. And tonight at the meeting, one of the residents spoke about the mayor and some of his comments. So, my goal in taking the position of uh council
president was to really establish a working relationship with the mayor and we attempted and we are attempting to get that done. there are some important things on the agenda but posts on Facebook and uh you know all the uh
statements made and the public being upset just gets in the way of progress. So, uh, there was a resolution that was I was going to put on the agenda for censure of the mayor and before I did
that and it was, uh, I called him up and I told him that we're probably going to censor your behavior and he didn't like it, of course, and I'm surprised that he just left the meeting. So, I called uh, our council, Mr. King, and Peter uh,
gave me 10, 15 minutes. I called the mayor and he told me he just got off the phone with Mr. King and he told me the opposite. So I said, "Well, there's one way to settle this. Let's get Mr. King on the phone. I have a three-way call." So we did. Half hour later, we agreed to
work together. I agreed to pull the censure off of the resolution with the promise that the behavior was going to stop. My recommendation to the mayor was not only stop posting, but get off of Facebook altogether. you're a public
official and of course he has his own individual rights. This has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with right and wrong. So, uh, we agreed the next time anything happens, he's not I'm not censuring him and the council and he's going to censure himself by by his
actions. And if he does, then the resolution will go on the next meeting. I hope that it doesn't happen. I'm not I'm holding out hope that uh it just doesn't happen. But it it has to stop and uh if it doesn't then whatever
censure means I don't know like impeachment of a president doesn't seem to do much either but at least it'll be a statement on our part. We owe that and I want to work with the mayor and I want to get things done and uh the the budget is going to be one of the key elements
to take place and I've asked the CFO concerning the budget topic number two when she makes her presentation do it on a macro level. Don't just come in with individual numbers as others that have presented a budget have. Make it an overall view of where the town is,
what's happened, what's in the future that she's heard about. For example, cannabis was a big thing for many years. Well, we're generating revenue and I think we should all know if it's a positive or a negative. Are we making money with that? How much? Where's it
going? What are the expectations of increased cost? All the above. And I'm sure she'll do a great job. I have great confidence and and I think it was a good hire. uh the pilot on 7th Elma, the the 55 and
over building that's open was a pilot as well as the 27 unit uh uh building. So my question was where's the money our down payment that has nothing to do with the sewer connection has to do with just
the pilot payments. And I spoke to Mr. Jessup and he explained that in the resolution you do work with the developer in the first year if a building's up and all of a sudden 50% of it is rented in the first two months you
can expect more payments upfront in the first and second quarter. It's a quarterly payment system. If if rentals are slow then your first and second quarters are slower payment and then they have to catch up in the third and fourth quarter. So those numbers are now
dependent upon the number of units. I've heard a couple different stories on how many units have been rented and uh it's not going very quickly from what I see, but some payments will be due to us and uh that's going to be figured shortly
because the first quarter is over and it has to be done through our tax collection and it's done in the same way that you collect taxes. a a private pilot is is a payment in lie of taxes, but it is a payment. So, that money will start flowing to us shortly.
Uh I also had spoken to two of the people on the MUA concerning Carl's comments tonight, which were well done, well documented, and that was Dell Bright and Paul who runs the MUA. They both said that they would come to the
meeting and describe to us and explain to us what happened. I know they were out of town and uh they owe us an explanation and that will be on the next agenda if if if they don't come and uh
they will they'll come and I'm sure they'll explain themselves what happened and how to resolve it and how to really get into when are we going to get our money. That's a lot of money outstanding. the developer owes they've been connected and we're due the money and we have to get that money
and uh I think that's it. It's plenty and there's uh a lot of good things going on. So I look forward to the next meeting at the budget presentation as well. Thank you very much. >> Madam Vice President, could I have the floor for one second again?
>> Could I have the floor for a minute? >> Oh, absolutely. Just so everyone knows, um, the reason I wrote the other resolution that was mentioned tonight, sorry, just so everyone knows, the reason I wrote the other resolution that was mentioned tonight is because I
firmly believe that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from accountability for what you say. And this council, the people that I sit with, we believe in that accountability. I just want to make sure everyone knows that. That's everything I wanted to say.
>> Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Anybody else have anything to say? No. I'd like to make a motion join the meeting. >> All in favor? >> We need a motion. >> Motion. I'll get the hang of this.
>> Moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Roll call or cons. All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. Thank you guys for joining via Zoom. Thank you. >> Very nice. Good job. >> Have a good night. He wasn't good,
right? You still >> Yeah. I don't pay attention. I just say motion. I don't know. >> Yeah, you'll get used to >> Well, I don't that. >> I think there's I think not. I'm hoping he won't. Thank you.
Thank you. I don't want him at the meeting. If I wasn't I wouldn't have him on the agenda. You'd have to come up to the podium the council meeting. >> You're still live there, Marcy. >> Go ahead.
resolution. She wants to work with