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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=nRT4oSebltw

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Okay, >> that's good. >> But what I can say is you never ate. But anyway, Yeah. laid the foundation for a new nation built on the principles of liberty, democracy, and justice. hands. Whereas

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over the past 250 years, the United States of America has grown from a budging republic to a global superpower, continually striving to uphold these fundamental ideas. And whereas this

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year, the United States will commemorate the its 250th anniversary milestone, offering a unique opportunity to reflect on the nation's journey. journey celebrate its achievements and envision its future while standing as a

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testament to the strength, resilience, and determination of its people. And now therefore be it declared that the Vernon Township mayor and council proclaim July 4th, 2026

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American 250th anniversary and in so doing reaffirms the commitment to liberty and democracy. honors the sacrifice the sacrifices made by countless individuals to protect these values and ensures that future

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generations continue to enjoy the freedoms shrined in the constitution. Be it further declared that the proclamation will serve as a powerful reminder of our nation's enduring spirit and a call to action for future

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generations. As the United States embarks on the next chapter of its history, this milestone celebration will stand as a testament to the strength, resilience, and determination of its people. Signed this

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8th day of June, 2026. >> Thank you very much. Next up is the uh 2025 annual audit resolution 26208. I have a motion to approve well not to

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approve it to uh to approve the uh resolution 258 >> 26 >> 26208. >> Got a motion. Second. >> I second it. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. Roll call. >> Who Who

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>> Who made the original motion? >> I thought you did. >> No, I didn't. >> It'll I'll make the original motion. >> Yeah, I thought you said it. >> No. >> Yes. >> Council member Holmes. >> Yes. >> Council member Lazo. >> Yes.

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>> Yes. >> So, President Higgins, >> yes. Okay. At this time, you want to call on our auditor or is there a >> um man is on right now. I believe she can hear us.

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>> Good evening everybody. >> I think you're on mute. >> You're muted. >> I am muted. Let's >> unmute. He's not going to hear us. We need a sign. >> Can you Can you hear me now? >> I unmuted myself. Can you hear me now?

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muted, but >> she may have on her device. >> Yeah, >> she's got to enable the speaker. >> Hey, man. Check your adi. Check your device. >> How about now? Can you hear me? I apologize. Give me a second.

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>> Told me that. >> Um, >> yeah. You know what I could I would say? >> Yeah. She just wanted to check something. I guess she disappeared. >> Trying a different device. >> You want to call in from Okay.

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Well, usually >> the only other thing if they're volume if we're right now. Mom, >> oh no, she >> I think she probably signed off. She'll sign back. >> Probably rebooting. Yeah, >> we'll give her a second because the MUA

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presentation is going to take a while. We hope and shouldn't be too long. I think we we allocated two two and a half hours. >> Yeah, I think so. >> The nicks are on tonight. >> It's going to be quick. >> Go to the minutes. Council president.

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>> Yes, we could do that or even to review. Okay. Approval of minutes. May 18th, 2026 special meeting. Approval of minutes. I have a motion to approve May 18th special meeting minutes.

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>> Second. Roll call. >> Council member Cino, >> yes. >> Council member Ols, >> yes. >> Council member Roso, >> yes. >> Council member, >> yes. >> Then Higgins, >> yes. >> May 28th regular meeting. May I have a

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motion to approve May 28th regular meeting minutes? >> Motion. >> Motion second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Council member. >> Yes. >> Council member Owens. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. Council member Spoila. >> Yes.

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>> Council President carries. >> All right. We still have the problem. >> I just You just text me that she's on audio now. See her? >> No. >> [ __ ] up. >> She's supposed to fall in love. I have

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no idea. I guess they order that. >> Oh, okay. >> The number is um >> She's back. Can you hear us now? >> I can't speak through. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we got you.

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>> Yep. All right. >> All right. I apologize for the technical error. >> No problem. So, we've had a motion accepted to uh have you make your presentation on the

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>> Okay. Uh well, good evening everybody. I really apologize for the mishap with the technology. Uh thank you for letting me present through Zoom. Uh as you know all municipalities and county in the New Jersey are required to

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have an annual audit of the financial statements. What that means that is that as an independent auditors we are required by professional standards to opine on whether the financial statements

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generated by the township is fairly stated and tonight I'm here to present the results in your current fund which is your operating fund. I'm going to highlight some of the uh a few numbers.

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Your total assets is approximately $30.9 million. Of that, $11.3 million is in cash. You have approximately $1.79 million in delinquent property taxes

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as of December 31st. >> Repeat that again, please. Oh, sure. In at December 31st, you have approximately 1.79 million in delinquent property taxes

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receivable. That's the delinquent taxes you haven't collected yet as of the end of the year. about 9 mill $8 million, excuse me, in tax lean receivable and about $9 million in foreclosure

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properties. So, we do have a re uh a management suggestion in the report to review your uh tax lean and properties and your foreclosed properties to see if there's any way to get them back on the tax ro.

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Obviously, if you can get them back on the tax ro, it's going to generate more tax revenue for the township. At the end of the year, you have approximately $6 million in fund balance. That's a $753,000

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decrease from the previous year. And the main driver of that is the I would say the lack of regeneration of fund balance. So in the 2025 budget, you

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utilize 1,650 to balance your budget. And during 2025, you were only able to regenerate a little under $900,000. So the amount of revenue that

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anticipated compared to what you regenerated during the year was a lot less compared to previous year because once you raise the amount of anticipated revenue

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you have less to fall back to the fund balance at the end of the year. And the one of the biggest line item is interest on investments that uh we have about $211,000

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decrease compared to the year before. And another item is the UCC fees. Compared to the previous year, we regenerated 215, but in 2025, we only

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regenerate less than $4,000. In terms of your debt at the end of the year, you have approximately $26 million in debt between zero bonds outstanding loans

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through the NJ bank and bond anticipation notes. Your collection rate for the year is 97% which is a slight increase from the previous year which is good. And lastly

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there is two recommendations in the report. One is the segregation of duty which we have that in a lot of your t uh towns and that's mainly because of each department collecting their receipts and

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issuing permits in the same time. And with segregation duty you have to weigh the benefits versus cost. And the second recommendation is also repeat from the pre from previous year.

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Uh and that's to reconcile the tax title lean receivable that the tax collector has versus what the treasures record has. And this really stem from when the conversion happened a few years ago from

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PHO to admins. Other than that, um I would like to thank everybody your the mayor, the CFO, all the department heads and other staff

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for um the help during the audit. Is there any questions I can help with? >> Any questions for me? >> Good, Brad? I'm good. Okay. So, we're in we're in pretty good compliance, I guess, is the bottom line.

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>> Yes. >> Okay. I have a motion to approve resolution 26209, corrective action plan audit. >> Roll call. >> I'm sorry. Who was the second? >> Carl.

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>> Second. >> Yeah, it was me and Sandy. >> Oh. and it both at the same time. >> Thank you. >> Council member Canino, >> yes. >> Council member Ols, >> yes. >> Council member Razudo, >> yes. >> Member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President H.

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>> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, M. >> Thank you, >> Nick. Presentation the MUA. Everyone's here. Excellent.

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So, good evening everyone. I'm just going to give a brief highlevel financial portion of our presentation tonight. Just give some financial and some strategic updates regarding the MUA, specifically focusing on our sewer utility budget um from 2025 in comparison to the year-end numbers from

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2024 and looking ahead into 2026 budget year. Just bit of a snippet on what we're doing this year. The core message tonight is one of fiscal responsibility, proactive rate stabilization, and strategic growth. Our main goal as an authority has been managing the rising costs of infrastructure and operations

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without passing those heavy burdens onto our local sewer utility rate payments. At the same time, we're looking towards targeted, excuse me, my throat look terrible. Um, service, excuse me, we're looking towards targeted service expansion areas

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designed strategically reduce our consumer rates over the long term, ensuring that the MUA meets its foundational debt, operational, and development obligations to Vernon Township. So, we're going to first dive into some budget numbers. So, these are just straight numbers. So, in 2024, the

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MUA's adopted budget was $3.625 625 million. That accounts for operations and um revenues. Moving into 2025, which was last year's fiscal year, we were at 3.682 million, which is increase of just above $57,000 or about 1.6%.

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Given the broader inflationary pressures everyone's experiencing, um 1.6% is really incredible. Looking forward to the 2026 adopted budget, which we adopted in January, our total appropriations are set at 3.737 million, which is an increase of just under $54,500

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or roughly 1 and a.5% over 2025's annual budget. So across that 3-year period from 24 through 26, um our budget has in remained incredibly steady going anywhere from 1.5 to 1.6% increase year-over-year. Regarding our annual

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financial review, we've recently received our initial reports back from the auditor. The board has yet to see and review those reports, but I'm comfortable in saying um that and confident and sharing that our um fund balance or on the MUA side we called an

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position increased by over 311,000 last year between 2024's ending numbers and 2025's ending numbers. It brings me to the most import course most important part for the rate payers for the MUA. Those funds do not just sit idally. Um

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we let that net position not sit on a balance sheet. We use a significant portion of those funds year-over-year to offset revenues um in our budget so that we can stabilize rates for the rateayers. In the 2025 budget, we used we utilized over

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$166,000 of that position to offset appropriations. And to shield the rate payers from a rate hike again for the current cycle in 2026, we increased that utilization to $265,438 in the 2026 budget. By utilizing these internal funds to absorb cost increases,

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we successfully minimize the impact on our rate payers wallets. But rate stabilization through reserves is only a short-term shield. For long-term rate stabilization, we have to look towards expanding our customer base. Which brings me to a major milestone that we did reach last year in 2025. Our proposed sewer service

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expansion mapping was officially reviewed and approved at the county level by Sussex County. Following that county approval, the expansion plans were officially transmitted to the DP after over a decade of discussions between the board and the D and our engineers. Moving forward with this expansion

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allows the MUA to scale our operations. By bringing in new users, we can spread our fixed operational costs across a larger much larger base, which is the key to driving down our future consumer rates or at least stabilizing them. Furthermore, the strategic growth ensures that we expand our capacity

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safely, allowing the MUA to fully meet its long-term infrastructure, environmental, and financial obligations back to the township. So, to wrap up, the MUA is in a strong, stable financial position. Our budget growth is tightly controlled at under 2% annually. Our net position has grown by over $311,000 from

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24 to 25. And we are aggressively using the financial strength to keep sewer rates stable. With the county approved expansion plans now at the D level, we have a clear path forward to grow our system, fulfill our promises to Vernon Township, and lower the burden on our rateayers. I'm going to pass the remainder of the

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presentation over to James Chappelle, um the sewer engineer for the MUA as well as the township to discuss specific projects the township has undertaken with regards to sewer infrastructure and water developments. All you have >> uh can I stand up? Yes, >> I'll uh

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>> um let me get in. I'm gonna pass out some of these maps. So, in case you guys I didn't print that any, but if you guys want to share and just uh follow along or if you have any questions, let me know. Yes,

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>> I think Dale's in the crib. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um, okay. So, kind of uh we're going to start on the sewer subject first. Both of these are kind of tied together. Um because as Denell said like the long-term strategy here is to basically

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uh increase the user base so that we can disperse the the basically the minimum payments that uh Vernon has uh with schuma and uh can disperse that amongst a long a larger user base. Uh I wrote I wrote down these notes so bear with me.

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I want to the long story and I want to articulate it properly. Um, so and one thing to preface. First of all, I'm very happy to be here. I'm James Chappelle. I grew up uh in the town over in West Milford. I'm very familiar with Vernon. My father-in-law lives here. My best friend

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lives here. We going to Mountain Creek like my whole life. Snowboarding um around Florida all the time. And I've always been fond of Vernon birds from as long as I can remember. Plan development and proposed development when I was in high school and things like that about

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casinos and stuff. So, it's nice to be uh kind of embedded into the into the real deal. Um but along those lines of kind of like that planned expansion, this planned development, right? One of the things that it's tied to is the availabil availability of water and

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sewer utility. Um certain developments in town are not going to be able to develop without both water and sewer. So while we're starting on the water subject first, uh the two kind of go hand in hand. So we start with the uh start with the sewer uh expansion and we can talk about water. Um so around uh

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2011 2013 um uh Vernon ended up purchasing and I actually might have predated this. So keep uh just a disclaimer this is the best of my understanding but the story goes back a long way. So if you guys you're going to like oh that date is not right just keep take it with a grain of

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salt. around 2013 um uh and prior Vernon ended up purchasing the Great Gorge sewer area from uh from Violia or formerly known as United Water Sewers. Um when they ended up purchasing this uh they had it went under the MUA, right?

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And uh over the course of the early 2000s, uh there were several sewer expansion projects that kind of brought more sewer in this area and down in this area. uh somewhere around 2011 was like kind of like a turning point because uh Mountain Creek was proposing to have a

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massive development in town. Uh that development uh was looking for like a demand of uh I guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 645,000 uh gallons per day minimum average flood. What ended up happening is because of all of this contemplated

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development that was going to take place uh the county schuma who operates the wastewater treatment plant they did not have capacity to accommodate all this development. Um so over the years I guess somewhere around 2013 2014

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agreements went went through between Vernon and Schuma uh plant upgrades were completed to in expand the capacity at the treatment plant to accommodate this proposed development. Uh so everything got constructed uh until about 2013 or 2014 somewhere in that ballpark. I guess

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the planned development for this you know large scale buildout uh never came to fruition right. So now what end up ends up happening is we have paid for all of that allocation capacity at the treatment plant but we don't have the

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users to pay for it. they have a minimum amount that we're paying for on a on a uh monthly basis, but since we're so far below that, we're paying more money than we really should and it becomes a uh problem for rateayers because the rates are unnecessarily high for the level of

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uh the level of service they're provided. So, the one thing like Denell had said, the long-term strategy here is to accommodate for uh future development uh which involves two things. So expanding the sewer service area. So the sewer service area is basically where

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the DP says you can put sewers, right? It's part of a larger county plan. Um so like the Nell said, that sewer service area was held up for a long time. Uh it actually started back like right after the plant upgrades were done and where people started identifying that like hey we need to add connections right in

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order to close that that surplus that we have on the allocation. Um so we started looking into uh different areas where we can expand, right? So a big turning point also in the sewer expansion area was ne negotiating this geometry. So you

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kind of see like on this map the the pinkish kind of represents the areas of existing sewer service area with this darker purple representing some areas of planned expansion. If you look at the planned expansion areas, they kind of uh go into neighborhoods, right? And what

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we'll go into is basically like um okay, where is like the best bang for your buck, right? If you're going to invest money into putting mains into the ground, where are you going to get the most connections, right? Aka shrinking that surplus as much as possible with the least amount spent. Um these six

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areas were kind of identified right in the beginning when we started working with Vernon. Um but uh what ended up happening after that after Denell and our office kind of worked through the different areas for expansion and sewer service area uh Dell and and some others with the MUA had applied through Josh

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Godheimer's office for funding for sewer expans. Um so of these six areas while we have a big hitter up here you can kind of see how this pink is kind of separated quite a bit from the existing sewer service area. So, one thing to keep in mind is while there's a tremendous amount of connections up

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here, which would be very good for for Vernon to have, we need to keep in mind that uh the expense to get up here and to either and the latest we've been talking about maybe cutting through the Legends property to get sewer over to this this area here. Um but anyway, as far as the grant is concerned, we have

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$4 million approximately, which of which 20% is uh Vern's money and the other 80% is going to be EPA funded. Um so we need to identify certain areas that best bang for our buck in order to expand. So the areas that we have identified uh were

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areas of uh that areas that are close to existing sewer service area and there's two reasons for that. One we need to connect the existing parts of the system. We can't just put a satellite set of sewers up here and like have it connect to nothing. Right? So that's one of the elements of it. The other element is if we apply

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for what's called approval permit, they won't we're we I would anticipate they wouldn't permit that. Basically, when you submit the application, they're going to look at your plan and say, "Hey, you're not in the sewer service area." And we're say, "Hey, that's because we're not yet in the sewer service area and we're just going to reject the application." Right? So, to

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put our best foot forward, um we've basically honed it down to these four expansion areas, which is uh one up here, which is kind of the burning in, right? >> Okay. That's this is uh what we're calling area one. And then we'll go into more of the maps with the detailed views of these first. I just wanted to walk

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through this. Vernon is kind of up here. Uh this area which is like Dunkin Donuts Taco Bell is kind of like up on this uh portion of the expansion area and then basically going back into Odette or sorry I'm sorry uh I passed. Area two is

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up here by Odell and uh uh forget the other road but right off 94 there. So there's some connection there. That's what we're calling area two. Area three, which is right at the start of this pink over there. Um, that would be area. The

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thing about area three is you can't build area three unless you have area two because there's nothing for it to go to, right? So, two and three kind of go hand in hand. And four is a pretty good area to here, which is the cloud group, the cumulus. Yeah. Yeah,

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>> that's area four, right? Um, area four you can take by gravity. There's a couple other considerations when you pick the areas you have to basically you know if grade doesn't work with you stuff sometimes by gravity um but on the uh the latest thing that

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we've been talking about with Vernon uh is about the the different areas and basically we have areas one two three and four we have $4 million under the grant and I'm estimating those uh if you were to do all of the areas is

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I forget the exact number but it's something like $6 million right so we need to pick we've kind of honed it down to either pick areas one two and three which is burning in Dell and Dairy Queen kind of that's area big or two three and four and two three and four would be

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Odell Dairy Queen and then the cloud group um >> where's Odell you repeat that >> Odell is crossing a pizza station up Guthrie >> okay >> or given I mean up given >> given yeah given Odell it's like the one that makes the And it kind of if you go up straight it like connects back with

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Guthrie I think. >> Yeah. >> Like Main Street. >> Um but anyway we're kind of trying to hone in on these areas. Now one of the things like one of the metrics that we used to kind of compare this uh is like cost per EDU right so we're kind of we estimated how much we think

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the construction for each of the areas would cost and then we divided that by how many EDUs we would expect to get from that expenditure. Right? And then we would have a basically a dollar or EDU type chart. Um the lower that metric kind of the more cost effective it could

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be. I put that in quotes because there are certain things that are not directly financial benefits but are more so benefits to the town. So like commercial properties that maybe uh as the auditor had said, right? Like tax revenues that are no longer coming in, right? So maybe there is a better uh advantage to

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somebody's properties or some of these expansion areas beyond just this metric. So, I just put that like uh disclaimer out there. But when we're going through these uh new maps, these four areas, which are these are kind of what you

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have in front of you. So, this is area one. Um area one, you can kind of see this blown up. So, we have the existing sewer service area in here and this is proposed sewer service area, right? So, there's a couple things and I we tried to put down all the I think

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um okay so basically that's why we basically scope this out to stop where it stops because we don't think that the DP would permanent going up here but there's an additional benefit so right so when we install sewers here and similar to other areas you also now have accommodability for when the sewer

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service sewer service area is expanded to now move into this group, right? For an additional expense, maybe in like a phase two or something like that. Each one has kind of a phase two because we might not get all the way into those areas that are expanded areas, but what we're trying to spend the money on now

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is to facilitate those connections in the future. So, basically, we're thinking of it as phase one and phase two. figure out okay under the grant which we'll call phase one how much money are we going to spend of that grant money and how many EUs are we going to get and what connection potential will we also get that you can

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see here like the connection potential for Malibu Drive is going to be less uh I think I I counted about 23 cells each of these little dots on here just represents a little counter so you can kind of just make sure that we're checking all the boxes um but anyway so there's like 23 units up here some of

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these just got problem um but there's 23 up here so once this is installed for just a short distance, you're getting 23 EDUs. Now, when I was talking about the other benefits that you might realize from my commercial development, right,

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this uh area one is very dependent, it's its effectiveness or benefit to the town is very dependent on the vernet up here, right? That's the commercial property and it's the biggest uh bang for the buck, right? It's 20 EDUs approximately

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based on like about 150 seat count uh for the restaurant which is a good connection and it has that other benefit of having a nice establishment in town that people like going to, right? Um also you get tax revenue with it if you're not getting it currently. Um it's just an overall

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benefit for the town. So you have to kind of like view it as not always just this financial metric which you're looking at right here. Uh $71,000 for ETU. That's the other reason I bring this one up as like something that we need to talk to Vernon about because the one thing when people go to connect and

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especially the commercial users 20 edus works out to be like I don't know $200,000 or something like that. So if this person, right, and and the town has the ability uh or there's the ordinance, right, Rich, that uh mandatory

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connections, right? So you but the thing you have to watch out for is like if this person was like, "We can't afford $200,000 because that's kind of the history of that property in the first place. They couldn't afford the septic system on the first go around." So if they're going to turn around and go, "Well, we can't afford $200,000 or whatever and now they're not going to

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develop." Well, the town shouldn't spend this rent money running it up there because it's really being spent for nothing. Biggest benefit is getting that commercial property in business and then subsequently down the road you can kind of expand up here. >> Um, >> can I just add something there, James? Yeah. >> So, um, the existing commercial

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property, right? So, um, as far as where those are zone town center. So, um, James mentioned before obviously it's your best bang for your buck, but there's caveats to that, right? So, a lot of these properties can be vacant or they could be underutilized because they might be a small operation right now

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because they don't have access to maybe adequate water and they don't have access to sewer. So, by giving them access to water and sewer, those properties might be able might be able to. So, I'm not saying they're going to, but they might be able to do more with their property, especially if they are zone town center um than they currently

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are able to do. So, again, it's for the existing property that we're talking about. Um keep in mind like septic systems have like bedroom counts or like a maximum capacias that the septic fields can take. When you have a sewer connection you have a little bit more flexibility as to what you can do,

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right? Because you know when they designed the sics is designed for whatever seats it is. So if they wanted to build something completely new in that space, uh you would need uh some more robust treatment treatment plant on site if it's on site. Otherwise, if you have the sewer, you're at a uh you could

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be at a potential benefit and just run it down. But anyway, the one thing so we're going to be uh meeting with the Vernon in uh in the near future, although we haven't heard back. Uh we did reach out to them because we need assurances that like they understand everything that's in front of them so

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that the town can make a decision on whether or not that's the best place to spend the money. >> And those and those connection fees are a combination of the MUA and schuma. >> Yes. Right. >> So the bulk the bulk connection fees are schuma. We cannot control this with >> right like even if because I think it

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works out like 3600 bucks is Vernon's connection fee whereas like 9600 bucks >> something like 2400 for us. Yeah >> 2400. So it works out to like just over uh >> eight, >> isn't it? Like 11. >> Uh >> but either way, so like we even if

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Vernon waved theirs entirely, which is not going to be done, but even if they did hypothetical, you still have this the Sussex County uh permit fee and from my days working with them in Sussex Burrow and other places actually not other places.

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Um they're just they like we've tried to negotiate that point with uh a couple properties and it it never never got anywhere. They were they were very unwilling. Um so anyway, so this is one of the things right here we're looking other than that just to give you a synopsis. This would be uh this is a $2

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million construction cost. The other thing with this property, this this this one, it's it's the most complex. We have a deep stream crossing as we go towards uh what Vernon crossing here. Uh, as you go there, you have to cross that big stream, which is the DOT stream. So, we're probably going to need some type of like trench construction methods to

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get down under that. Uh, this is gravity and we need a pump station uh to get this up gradient and through the DPW yard and then back into Church Street, right? So, this is like this is a pretty big complex project. So, again, if when

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we talk to burning in, a large uh portion of our decision of the path forward is going to be dependent on that conversation. Um moving does anyone have any questions on that aspect uh of things? I I do want both. We I

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know we've been in contact with the Vernon in um we haven't dis we have well we didn't know how many seats which we discovered the last meeting how many seats right so and then how many how many edus right so >> he hasn't he hasn't given us an

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indication of meeting in person he had asked for an inerson meeting um he asked a bunch of questions they were answered the best way that we can answer them um and we have not heard back about a date >> yeah so I I think I think when you weigh how much the connection fees would be

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for for sewer opposed to how much it' be for septic systems. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And honestly because uh I think Hower worked up that estimate in the past. So I could probably call them and see if they have like what they quoted them in the past because that would be a helpful metric to be like hey it's better it

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better than what the the situation you had before. >> Right. I'm wondering if that would Okay. Yeah. We'll talk about that. Okay. think um I got something else but okay um yeah so this is like one of the more pressing things keeping in mind uh the sewer

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service area application just to kind of back up into that sorry for jumping around see I've had it all scripted out I'm still hopping around um so the service area amendment like Dell said uh the geometry was a very complicated portion but through ample meetings with

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D we finally kind of came to terms with how this would work. Um, it's a two-part process. This actually, they went through this past, but they were never able to get in 2018. They were never able to get uh through the negotiations on the geometry. So, we were able to get through with that, which is great. Uh,

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it has passed the county pack approval, so it has to go to the commissioner after that. Went from the commissioner, then back to D. Um, so now it's sitting with D. We're planning on getting comments on the sewer service area hopefully beginning of July by July 9th. Talk to them today.

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>> Excuse me. Does it have to go back at any point now to the >> county? >> Uh to mine off now. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I think the county portion is good and we need to get the state's approval. So uh as we move forward with that uh we're kind of running these things in parallel

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but as soon right. So as soon as sewer service area these purple areas become eligible for potential project and really once you get set up right I get into the neighborhood. So we're almost doing like the setup now so we can get

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uh go to area two. Uh this one is pretty straightforward. It does have a deployed um puzzle that I have eliminated here. The reason that right

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not numbered this more over here uh I was under the impression that this building is connected off the side street this uh sewer man over here. I think this is the Taco Bell which is connected back here. I believe Dunkin Donut is connected back there. So these

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connections which are like commercial uh those are kind of already uh taken care of um but you do have two benefits for uh area 2 and you can read notes right here. So additional benefits provides uh access to the connectivity of area three. The problem with area three on

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its own like I said before you need to get it to here so that you get to there because otherwise if you build here there's nowhere for it to go. This one's pretty straightforward. Uh you can see it's a little bit cheaper as far as the total construction cost. It's mostly just gravity. It's all just gravity

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sewer. Biggest complexity is portions of this is are route 94. Um so we're actually working with so the state DOT is actually doing a major I say major state DOT is doing a rehabilitation of Route 94 with different like wall

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improvements and paving and covert replacement and stuff like that. Um, so we do want to talk to them to figure out the paving schedule so we can make sure that these things coincide. We're not going to pave once and then pave again kind of thing. And maybe, you know, maybe we can get some cost savings out of it if the timing works out. Uh, well,

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um, this area 2, uh, we're looking at 1.3 million, $56,000 per EDU, right? So that's measurable. We're spending 1.3 to get 24 instead of two million to get 24 also whatever, right? So 28. Um, so that

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metric kind of shows if you didn't consider the additional benefit to the town of burning in or a commercial property being reopened, uh, that could change this, uh, area three. This is mostly the project's

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a little bit, but it doesn't involve another pump station because there's no way to get the ground. This is uh Baldwin area, right? Um we are putting sewers up here. Now, now the thing is I counted these

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parcels. If you look at the red counts, there's numbers that are red that's pretty hard to distinguish between them. My bad. But uh the red ones are kind of a count for future expansion, right? So the first investment of uh let's say 1.7 million because we do have this force

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man here. You don't get a tremendous amount of connections. Um, but when you do when you have when you are permitted to put the sewer in front of the street, if you are a residential connection, it doesn't require treatment works approval. Even though these parcels adjacent to the sewer are not connected,

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they're still permitted to connect because there's a sewer and the regulations are structured as such that you're connect. So you get basically this swap in here on both sides. But now you have right. So now this is constructed. Now two is connected to three. Now like on the second phase now

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uh and you can see this in the metrics right so the first one is only 16 needs to use for a fixed cost right so that's pretty high but when you go into the additional benefits there's 62 parcels in here that could be connected for a short amount of main because of the density of the properties right so if

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you if you look at that same metric uh the next $2.5 million that you would spend after the the initial one spent on the grant you would get uh 62 EDUs that's like a $40,000 per EDU cost Right. So, that's the lowest of so far. Uh, and if you aggregated both this

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project and the expansion here, you're looking at about $4 million, give or take. Uh, which gives you like an aggregate rate for the the combination of the projects of about, you know, 53,000 per year. So, again, it's just a just a an attempt to get an even playing

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field to compare options. Um on that schematic those two on Baldwin drive those two blue dots. >> Well these holes before we crop it off just erase those from your brain. >> Okay.

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Is it going up or not? >> Well eventually it will. Um and I think when we documented this before I think the layer just like somehow stayed here just these two dots. No. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Just ignore those. They're irrelevant. We could like for example

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there if we put like if we tried to put the sewer there would be like >> put here right >> um right you need a good expansion area here and then this these two kind of connect. So area four kind of starts like a nice dividing line.

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Um and then this is the cloud. Um area three and two this way is kind of the area three connections. And then this goes by gravity this way. of this kind of area three where it's dunin area four would flow through the the medical uh

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the medical building again this is a you're not going to get a lot here that's what you are doing is you're setting it up get into here right because once you get into this neighborhood right the first you know I'm I'm thinking this fine for a million

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dollars 5001,000 per that's once you get the this 4500 ft deepens you're looking at like that you're going to get of these options. Uh and then the aggregate for the two doing this one and the expansion into here gives you 2.8 million for 73.

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It's about uh 38,000 per EDU. So still a pretty reasonable cost. That's why right the decision to be made is burning in in the benefits uh for the number one up there right with that commercial development. You know, it's also, you know, you also want to consider commercial properties in here. If

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there's anything that's been like talked about as far as like, oh, this partial Dairy Queen would turn into uh Disney World if you know, whatever. Uh if they just had the water in the sewer, >> let go. >> Um so those kind of things are just

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things to consider, but you know, we want to be careful so that we're picking the areas that are getting us the best bang for the buck. Once we select those areas, kind of close this out, we're moving forward with the sewer service area. We haven't the EPA grant has what's called a work plan. Uh it's a

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little bit complicated with the work plan because way that we're structuring this application. We want to design all of them and have the options to construct all of them. Um but we want to it makes the application hard because we don't want to tell them like, hey, there's $6 million of projects here and

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we're going to pick $4 million worth. We need to make sure with them that they're not gonna be like, "Oh, no, you said $6 million of projects. You have to come up with the other two whatever million." So, we need to talk to EPA, finish the work plan. Uh the thing with the grants on the EPA side, uh when we talk about

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water, there is a deadline deadline. This one uh to my knowledge and I'm pretty sure your knowledge as well, there's no deadline. So, but everything is kind of moving in parallel as far as sewer service area,

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the design of things, um the EPA grant, all these things are kind of working concurrently. But again, the fundamental reason this is all necessary is to shrink that deficit between to get more users to pay that minimum bill. That's

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the key here. Before we leave sewers, the um what you need from the township then is some type of schedule as to where we would like to see development proceed.

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>> Yeah. >> All right. And if so, um, chronologically, in other words, which goes first, second, and third, and when, what's the soonest you would require that? >> So, I mean, we're looking

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on top of me big time on this. >> Not me. Not going, >> but uh, yeah, we want to get shovels in the ground this year. So, um, everything we can do to get this stuff permitted. That's why we're going with these orange areas. But we do need to, you know, I

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the more like I don't know all of the advantages of each of these businesses, what has been talked about, if there are major plans at all. Um, when I look at the map, that's how I view it, right? Knowing what I know. But, you know, if someone knows like, oh, this parcel is

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like going to be massive and it's going to be really great and whatever. Um, you know, again, it might make this metro bus less important. It might make some of the other benefits that you're going to get, whether it's like, you know, the satisfaction of the the town and the

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people who now can use this or go to that business or or, you know, whatever you get the tax revenue of something that you didn't have tax revenue on before. Like there's there are other indirect benefits other than the water. Mayor, would you be able to have work

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with the um the engineer and the town planner to identify a a a procedural uh direction or or uh

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>> order of progression on this >> on the timelines? >> Yeah. In other words, which actions to start first, second, third begin the begin with? >> I think we already got that laid out, >> Dell. >> Yeah, I think I think burning in is probably

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>> what areas we're going to try to hit first, right? I think we we laid that out already. >> What the only thing is if we're really the the biggest thing is that conversation with the Bernardan because that that's like the one piece that changes a lot for the first option.

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>> Yeah. to figure out, but I think like they don't >> the burning is key for that area. If they're not if they're not committing like 100% it's it's it's a big expense because we

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do have to cross that stream. If they're committing going in that direction, to me, just my opinion, it's it's a good way to go because we have this money from the government. >> Yeah. to spend to cross the stream and build a pump station that we may not have in the future. But if we're not

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going to get all those EDUs and the tax benefits, everything that comes with it, that's what's got to be weighed. That that's >> then you might as well have to look at another order progression >> depending on what we're dependent on what we're told. >> Yeah. Okay. I think um and again just

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just to keep in mind, so the Vernon area is already existing sewer service area, right? So if they if the town decides that the pipe's going in the ground, it is mandatory connection for the regulations for that. Anyway, >> okay. Um, that being said, also the

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whole area that's up past James, if you don't mind going to the very first map, the um map that was submitted to the VP includes the expanded area in the pink portion in the upper right hand side. So, in order to get those those

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locations right, you would have to have that portion. You have to do that portion. That portion is one of the most expensive because of the stream. Um, and the idea for the while for a while from what I've heard from the board, right, is to is to kind of go use the money for

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that just because it's such a large expand such a large cost um that it would that burden that the board and maybe the township wouldn't necessarily want to put that burden for that cost across all the rateayers, right? or what

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even one specific property >> are there other commercially zoned properties up in this area. >> So I believe that they're I would check the Vernon Township zoning map. I can check that. But I believe that they're all zone town center and I could be wrong. Um but I believe that they are all zone town center. So again they

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could be underutilized. Those properties could be utilized for something else. some the permissions of what town centers, >> you know, one thing one thing you got to keep in mind here is the Vernon in could go away, right? That's the risk, right?

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Where the other three areas are are residential. They're there to stay. So, I'm not saying, you know, you don't do one thing or the other. It's something to consider. >> Got to weigh every option. Something to consider. >> This is like the head of the snake right

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here. Burn it. burn it in. We've got that money. It's gonna very expensive place to do and I don't know where we'll ever find the money again to go doing that work. >> Now, James, that the pink area after the burning in. >> Yep. Is that would that all be

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>> gravity down to the pump station that gets built? >> I believe this will go gravity the whole way. Gravity under the stream. >> So then So then crossing that stream and then down the road the expansion into there, the pump station wouldn't be necessary. >> That's right. >> Yeah. because that and that was because

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we had contemplated that's why you see this is area 1A right 1B was basically putting the pump station on burn and inch property and then basically pumping it under here but what happens is you don't this all of these people no longer have accommodation to connect whereas

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can keep this gravity you can basically expand this to any of those people and then if you did put the pump station here they would flow by gravity like a wet well but then you have to get easement and then you're going to be negotiating with like getting access to this property. Um, but to answer your question, it's my understanding that

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this is gravity flow in this configuration to the pump station in that dirt lot down there. >> I also want to point out something financially. Uh, so we spoke a little bit about connection fees. When you have grant funding like this, the grants that are given, the congressional funding

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that's given from um, Congress obviously is not a part of the calculation for um, the connection fees, right? So connection fees are supposed to cover debt services. there's no debt. I mean, there's a small amount of debt associated with this, but there's not, you know, $3 million associated with

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this, right? So, in the future, if you were to use this money for this type of um expansion, this these connections, that large chunk would not be a portion of calculations for connection fees, which is a benefit again to the rate pairs.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. And it and it is very good point. >> Good question. But I I would kind of say like just the just as a general aside like really the the feasibility of this long-term plan is uh going to require routine investment.

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In fact, like once we get through this one, we should just apply for funding again. >> I already Yeah, people I mean we the thing is like even even with everything that we're talking about, I'd rather have this just done.

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>> I have a question. So if the pipe goes in front of your house, you have to connect. No choice. You have to connect. Am I correct in that statement? >> Uh that is like Yeah. Okay. >> You're giving Vernon in. >> Pretty much. >> You're going to check with Vernon in to see if they would want to connect if we

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bring the pipe to them and they have a choice. >> If it's if the town decides to put >> Wait, wait, what? One. >> They're required. If the town decides to put the pipe there, they're required per regulations to connect >> if they can pay. >> But if they walk away from the pipe, Everybody's there. It doesn't matter.

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>> Yeah. I can't I Everybody's talking at once. >> No hardship in this play. >> And there's authorship application process. >> Yeah. >> Can we let the NUA attorney speak? He's got >> I think it's important Rich Warner. >> Uh I think it's important to distinguish between connection fees and service

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charges. >> Yes, I understand. >> So the connection fees that we do have a deferral application that a a user can apply for. uh to defer the payment of the connection fee. There is no such

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mechanism to defer the cost of the sewer service charges. >> So whether you connect to the system, you are still being charged edus. So a 20 unit or a 20U property will be built

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quarterly for 20 edus at whatever the that edu the cost per edu is. The only um benefit that a property that's situated in a sewer service area that has the ability to connect would derive

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from not connecting is to save on the connection fee. >> Right. >> That's it. We're still going to bill them. >> Right. I understand. >> Right. >> So again, going back to my original question, if you brought this pipe to Vernon in, he would have to connect. Am I correct? >> He would have to physically connect, but

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he would have to pay to he would have to pay. He has to and physically connect. >> No, not physically. He >> doesn't have to physically connect. >> Oh, no. He just has to pay then the edus, >> right? >> All right. Well, >> and in that case, he might >> which is really which is really what you want. I mean,

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>> right, for him to pay for the >> our connection fees compared to Schumas are are are lower. So, we give we give, you know, the hardship where they could pay it over over time. Mhm. >> In order for them to go get a hardship

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from Skuma, we have to grant it first, right? >> So, it's kind of like a >> So, but are you giving Vernon in the choice because you're saying you're trying to the cost? >> Yeah. My They have to connect. >> Yeah. >> So, um we just wanted to They reached

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out to us. We've had a conversation a couple years ago. They reached out to us to have an update on that conversation on where we are as far as where the sewer line when they're going in. Um, so they asked for a meeting. We agreed to have a meeting with them to just sort out what their thoughts are and what the

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anticipated thoughts of the MUA and the township are. >> But it stands that if the line goes >> Well, I don't know. I got a bad feeling um because other people don't have a choice. >> Well, they won't have a choice. >> It's literally in the regulations. >> So, there's the pipe out there to them.

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>> Yeah, I agree. >> I could I actually have a question. Uh, >> they'll just bring it there. >> But what if they like what if the same thing like what if whoever owns it now was like, "Well, I claim bankruptcy." >> Yeah. It doesn't meet my business model.

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Like, >> but isn't it still property? >> They're still going to get a bill every month, every every quarter whether they're in it or not. >> I'm I'm not saying not do it. I'm just saying there's that risk. That's all. You know, >> isn't the goal The goal should not be the Vernon, right? The goal should be

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that that whole community. Correct. Exactly. Right. So, like I said, Vernon is is is a >> they're going to bring it out there. He's got to pay too >> to me as if like the residents. I mean, I was involved in a lot of this when I

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was on the council last time and those people in that pink there did not like it. So, I just want everybody to be treated fairly, not just because this is a commercial property. >> Yeah. There'd be no exceptions. The only thing is like I had in my head like um like the same way that the original

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burning in they got the quote for their septic system they're like they're done like it went out of business right so my thought is like well if we're going to run this and they're going to do the same thing be like I'm out and then we just spent that money and then property remains vacant because no one's going to pay the connection fee but you're but

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you're saying it doesn't matter because they're still going to get >> still getting the 20 EDU bill >> each time. So maybe that does >> plus you got to sit down and talk with these people. We can't be making we think it's going to be just sit down and talk to them.

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>> Rich can't happen to >> confirm it. So >> I don't get it. I I think for purposes of the calculus so whether we spend the money which is substantial

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to expand into this area as it relates to the burning in being a potential user. There should be some consideration paid to is it going to be cost prohibitive to operate a business out of that location because of the 20 EDU count as Ed

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pointed out and if so is that going to drive the business away and if that drives the business away we're not might be sending out bills those bills aren't getting paid. So, what's going to happen is just like the municipal taxes, it'll be a lean against the property. And then

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the recourse is to foreclose on that property and take it back and then sell it again at at a at an auction and hope you get another business that comes in and that can pay and can operate. So while there is mandatory payment of

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sewer service charges, edus regardless of whether you connect or not, I I do think the consideration, some consideration should be paid as to uh whether the business is going to be able to sustain that large number. 20 EDUs at what are we at now? 13

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>> 14 >> 1400 $1,400 a year. Um you know, that's not significant. >> So question, you're you're assuming 20 .edu use based on 150 seat restaurant, right? Let's just say it becomes a

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professional building instead. Those edus change? >> Great question. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. And it's an excellent question. The EDU calculation is based upon the D regulations. They assign somewhat arbitrarily >> uh a calculus to determine a single

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family home is one EDU. Three bedrooms and more is one EDU. Restaurants, we're going to go per seats. uh hair salons, we're gonna we're gonna do something else. So depending upon the use that goes in there, that's going to drive the EDU calculation that's applied to that

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use. So yes, it could go from 20 down to two, right? And then and then you wouldn't have to have large consideration of the charge. >> I do think it's a really good point that you're never going to have the money to build that pump station again to reach that neighborhood >> and that that first option. So

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essentially you're asking are we gonna because you said only three of these plans are built. >> So if we don't go with option one then what's the option the other plan again? >> Two three four three four >> or one two and three.

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>> Yeah. >> But this includes that pump station and like you said that's like the head of the snake. How are you going to pay for that in the future if you want to get that other neighborhood? >> Right. you would have >> it won't you have to take out bonds. So historically, right, that the town

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issues bond ordinances and then you would take out bonds for that infrastructure and then that would have to be added into the calculation for connection fees and spread out along that, right? Um but you're never the connection fees never fully covered what your cost for infrastructure is. It like it will never happen.

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>> It'll cost you more. >> So this is the point here which I've said a number of times, right, is that you're not going to have that option. Um, and if your goal in the future, like it seems to be the goal of most of these schematics is to reach neighborhoods in the future once we expand even further.

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If that's the main goal of what we're doing, then that pump station is really important to build with this grant money. >> Exactly. >> And crossing the stream >> and I think the stream is a considerable expense as well. >> Yeah. is that once the

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uh sewer sewers are connected >> identified uh that the value of that particular piece of property escalates not just by the cost of the connection but by the potential >> Yes. >> for that piece of property.

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>> Exactly. >> And people don't understand that. You know what? Do you mean I'm going to be my property all of a sudden is going to be worth 20,000 25,000 more? Yeah, it is because you don't have the headaches of the problems with septic and everything

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else. >> Yeah. And like say like Vernon or say whatever business was here, they wanted to tear the roof off and put like a a rooftop restaurant type thing, right? they're going to be limited on a septic, which they would be too on the on the sewer side of things, but you can kind of accommodate more availability,

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whereas like a septic might be like your three-bedroom house and you're going to sell it and you made a fourth bedroom. Well, you got to close it off kind of thing. You know what I mean? Because you're not allowed to, you know, exceed that >> capacity. >> I happen to be for a piece of commercial property along

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94 there and it was being advertised as water and sewer uh available. >> Yeah. water and sewer and call office for details. >> So I mean >> did you call? No, >> I have no money.

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>> So is the owner burn it in? He's investing money in the building. He's renovating it. There's got to be something being discussed right now. Does anybody know where we are with? >> Like we said, we're trying to get a meeting with him. >> Gez. And is the grant money going to run out at some point in time?

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>> No, not that. Um there's nobody on the sewer side >> just on the the timeline. >> Yeah. >> I mean my conversation with him I mean he wants to connect to the sewer. >> We just got to give him that ED count and dollar amount what that's going to

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be right. And if we give him a a rate payment plan, a deferred payment for his .edus, that'll enable him to apply to this to the county to get a payment plan for his .eduus at that end, which would

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make it palatable. Uh >> yeah, it's going to be a big bill for him. >> Yeah. Oh, it's >> your infrastructure. Isn't that what fine the connection fees supplements the infrastructure and then the sewer fees across all the

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rateayers. So now you're not you're letting people not pay the connection fee. So I would think you're losing a lot of money that way. >> What part? >> Okay. So um everyone pays a connection fee. So whether that's broken out over a

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5-year period where they have to apply before the board and get approved for a hardship or not, they they pay a connection. >> Well, didn't he just say you don't have to hook up? >> So he said, >> I've I've said five times you have >> don't have to hook up, but you got to pay the bill, >> right? >> You have to pay the bill, but that

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connection fee for each .edu or however you >> That's why they're not allowed to use what other people basically establish for them to have convenience to connect, right? the ED like when they say you could wave the EDU and they're still going to be paying they're going to be paying their 20 EDU connection but

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they're not going to be uh conveying any wastewater from their facility because they have not yet paid a connection fee which is like the buyin into the system which is what everyone else has to do right so the connection fee uh right if they didn't pay it uh that's fine

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they're still obligated to pay however they can't connect to the rest of the system they we they can't put their sewage into the rest of this because they paid their fair share like everyone else did to establish this >> to exist, >> right? They would continue to use their septic.

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>> Yeah. Well, or they would just not be allowed to that they don't know. Like there really isn't a scenario where they would >> it would kind of it would no sense, right? If you if you don't connect, you're still going to have to pay user fees. >> So that connection fee and you're also

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going to get high. I mean that but that that septic system >> commercial properties took out big loans to pay that >> that septic system at the veron end from what I understand is is somewhere around to replace that septic is about4 to $500,000 >> how much4 to $500,000

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>> got to be a package plan >> it needs to be completely replaced >> 4 to $500,000 >> when we were talking to about the connection fees uh they would have there's two uh two separate fees. Obviously, there's one to us and there's

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one to the county. Uh in order to apply for uh a hardship plan at the county, we have to approve them first. So, we we've already uh changed our bylaws and we got that squared away so that they can uh put their payment uh pay their fee over

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a period of time. Uh >> but FEMA doesn't have to give you that break though. Well, you have No, I don't know. They don't have to, but they can. >> They can. They don't have to. >> But they can. And I mean, it's And there's actually statuto, it's somewhere

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near statutory about how much they can give you off with at that level. But if we as long as we approve it, then uh whoever buys the Vernon in can approve it apply to Skuma. Um, and if someone

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were to say that the sewer comes to their property, >> they don't pay the connection fee or charge the service fee, but continue using their septic. The building is sold, they can't >> owner, they then have to connect. >> So, so I just I just want to be clear, and I'm sure our attorney would would

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back me up on this. Um, the regulations for the MUI are that you have to connect. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And that involves paying a connection. >> As long as the connection fee exists, right? So, >> and if they don't, is there a lean? just put. >> Yes. >> Um that would be something I put my

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attorney in. >> Okay. >> The question is if you don't actually connect, >> what is the recourse? >> Yes. >> So it would be through the court system. >> Okay. Thank you. >> The lean could go on the property.

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>> That's for non-payment. So there was a there was a refusal to connect a mutal court violation issue a summon because they're in violation of our rules and rights are seen for you. >> One one other last thing I wanted to ask

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you. We're looking at the uh we're looking at the different and we're talking about starting and time frame. How will the freshwater end of your presentation affect our timeline

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and our uh our costs for um uh our cost for installation? Because I'm thinking about I'm thinking about we're going to have to dig trenches. There's going to have to be disturbance to the uh to the town.

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Uh, do we have anything in place or or an idea of when we're going to do this so that we can do everything at one time? >> Yeah, I think I want it because there really isn't any like we have when we

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talk about the water, we need to be able to have more available and be able to wheel it >> to the town center which is upgrading. >> Okay. uh what we're kind of talking about in franchise area expansion which >> which we talk about over there this area

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is not really planned but I see what you're saying because if we're already basically disturbing all of this >> and it's like a matter of like you have to trench over two lines next to each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's a it's a basic >> I would tend to think regulations would have to have some they can't be put in

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the same highway same trench. you know, understand >> they can. >> Yeah, there's there's there's depth >> depth change, right? Yeah. And at least But at least we got to take into consideration as far as if if it's possible to

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make to do it, plan it that way, you're only tearing up the road one time and you're only disturbing the people because especially on the commercial end if you're going to be in the town center, uh disturbing the flow of traffic there and how it and blocking it off and things of that nature can be

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expensive. >> Do it again too much later. Forget >> and do it again too. Yeah, they'd love him for that. James, I I had a question. >> Yeah. >> So, wherever we decide to go, so most of it most of this money's from the federal government, right? >> Yeah.

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Is there a way to come up with and it's kind of really forward imaginary thinking in a way once once everyone's hooked up like a time a timeline for that and and now the revenues are coming in right

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>> at what point after we start the project will we be now having this extra revenue coming in that would afford us the opportunity to then go into other sections without you know what I mean because because we're having all this extra money coming in >> that we didn't we didn't b we didn't

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>> paid a bond back >> so I can work with him >> no I know but I'm saying the money coming in wouldn't have been bonded for it it's just we wouldn't be paying it off it's coming in >> so so I can do those estimates um I've ran them a couple years ago just as like the total what what the estimated EDUs

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would be based on the numbers that we had right um for the existing and for the existing properties and a lot of those are vacant, like even the ones by Omega and Theta, right? Like >> those are going to come on at some point. Um so I can run those and look at

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like my five-year budget projections and kind of see like what that looks like. >> Um and then I know I spoke with um Ed about what the what like the future bond payments would be. I usually just run those through um I bank's calculator um based on what the town's prior bond

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ordinances um to get those numbers and just kind of see what the estimated payback would be to the township for that. And then I can look at what those expanded areas that he has which like we're not the number four right into the the clouds and the actual mod drive what those costs would be versus like what

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that bond would look like. >> You may not have extra money for a few years, right? So, you have to remember too, and it's something that I that I said to you, right? Like sewer infrastructure has a 40-year useful life. So, whereas the township, you're going to bond out a

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various purpose bond ordinance, your useful life hopefully hopefully would be above like 15 years, right? 15 years or greater. Hopefully, that's stuff that you're going to put into a bond ordinance. Um, sewer infrastructure is 40 years. So, if you do a 40-year useful life, I mean, I wouldn't say take it out

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for 40 years. That's a lot of interest, but if you did 30 years, I think that's reasonable. you get the system paid over time by the users that are using it, >> right? But that that that service amount is going to be a lot less than if you broke it out over 15 years or 10 years

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or whatever. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> One one last thing. Sorry about that. Um wondering >> and I think I' I've already gotten my answer, but um how we never considered going up break neck to Hidden Valley,

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all those town houses up there, because that would talking about getting the best bang for your buck, right? >> Well, they have their own system. >> They have their own, which I hear is like another problem up there. Um so I was just wondering if that was something that >> um I actually don't know of anything

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that was done in the very beginning when the MUA first started. Um I haven't seen any maps and discussion from the former engineers and like the former board to include that area. >> I fig Yeah, probably because they have their own already up there. >> Yeah,

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>> I mean I mean if this the expanded sewer service area maps and there is one on the township website um for what was sent to the D. I could probably update it for what was sent to the D. The edus or the gallons, let's just say gallons

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um that could be total on the system exceeds what our allocation is based on that entire expanded area. >> Yes. >> Which is a good thing because it means like we have the ability to expand and at some point we can say yeah no we don't have any allocation left which is amazing because then we'll have all the

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empty air filled and plus some. Right. >> Right. Right. >> So um yeah sorry I have a question on financial. So you're a separate entity from the council. What how do you depend upon the town

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financially to operate? >> We don't depend upon the town financially >> at all. So there's never any money passed through the town. >> We send we send the funding to the township. The only thing that gets sent from the township to the MUA is Mountain Creek's obligation. So um when the Mountain Creek bankruptcy went through

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the um the payment is paid one time. They make one loan payment and it's paid to the township and then the portion that's supposed to go to the MUA has to go to the MUA. So that is transferred um via wire to the MUA and then eventually just paid back to the township on our quarterly payments.

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>> Uhhuh. So you have your own financials, you have your own bank accounts, you have have >> you have budget, our own audit, our own financials. We're entirely separate. Okay. Just like hamburgers. It seems

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we talk about the vi burn veron in a lot of times on our message on our meetings and tonight we're talking about a need that the MUA has to somehow meet with the existing people of

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Vernon in Is there anyone here this room that can set that meeting up. I could >> anybody we've been in conversation about I know but you said that you can't they won't they >> No, we we've had emails and we're just trying to get it we just got to nar get a date, >> you know. Got to get a date.

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>> I'm not an I'm an impatient person, I'm telling you. I can't >> He's He's going to look for and I think he wants to he wants dates, right? When when exactly going to get that connection over? >> Probably not going to get that. >> I've made that clear. >> Yeah. So I and I think I the the

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question really is about what's going to cost advise him as I again we just found out the last way meeting how many seats so I I say get those calculations and and get that meeting to him so he's well aware what's

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>> I mean we got to go you know apples and apples it's what it is. >> Yeah. No, exactly. >> You're not up by your condos >> because otherwise we're just going to be sitting here again. >> But he's I think I think the back from the council >> gentleman the gentleman the owner

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>> is used to areas where there's already sewers in place. So this could be a little sticker shock for him. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Um so >> I mean I just don't know what his plan was for like a sep or anything. I mean so I mean the the the option I mean James has given us options. We don't

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need to burn it in. It'd be nice to go out there. We don't need it. We could spend it on the other three areas. That's $4 million and that's a good expansion, too. >> What's vetting? You you know, >> it's not like we're It's not like we have to go there. >> Yeah. I think the feedback that I I've

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heard from council, from a number of members, though, >> please correct me if I'm is that um the town seems to be in favor of doing section one because of the cost versus having to take out additional debt to pay for that in the future. Whether you expend a million dollars here or $2

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million there, I don't understand. You You have to explain that >> debt service and one's not. >> You can you'll never do it. >> One's a payback and one's not. So, one's a payback, too. That's going to hit our rate >> and and no stream encroachment permits. And >> I still don't understand because you could get more you could get more EDUs,

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but we can go over that some other time. >> So, we we know we know area two and three are a definite, right? >> Yeah. So, what's holding up from putting shovels in the ground on those tomorrow? >> Well, the whole thing needs to be permitted, right? So, we're going through the grant applications. We have

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to come up with the work plan. Uh, which is part of the reason we we want to identify definitively which areas we're going to two and three like you said. Uh, right. I guess that's a good but we know we're doing those. Um, but the whole everything is packaged together. So, it's going in on one grant

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application. Uh, and we're permitting everything as a package. Uh, and yeah, I mean you could you could if you know that we could start doing it, but we still we're still designing it now anyway. So other than being designed together, >> nothing has been submitted anywhere yet.

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>> No other time run out >> not to the D. Yes. >> Which can take a while. So time will run out for you guys the money. So there's there's no time constraint on this money. >> Oh. >> So it was already congressionally awarded to the township. The there's a

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process though. >> You have to use it within a certain period of time. >> Process though. So once it's awarded to the township, >> um we still have to go through the EPA feds through the EPA as if it were like a real grant application. So they still have to review everything as if there

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was like an actual EPA grant. Um which is we're in that process. The reason why we needed to meet with you guys tonight is so that when we do that application package, we need to include all of those areas. We can't include one, two, three, and four because it exceeds the dollar amount that we allocated in addition to

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the town's portion. >> Um, so we want to make sure that we're all on the same page when James submits that when we work on those numbers together to submit it to the EPA so that it's exactly what the town wants. >> Okay. So, you're not going to lose any money if this is late. Okay. Because that's what's been floating around. You

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were on a time limit, but I guess that's >> water side. Yes. >> Okay. But not the sewer. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> James, what's the total cost of the one, two, three option? >> Uh the total cost uh where's it? >> Two million.

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>> Five, right? >> One. >> We do one, two, and three. Million. >> It's five million. More than we have. >> Two, three. And so far, it is >> like four million. >> It's four million. >> Do you And you guys per Can I see this one? >> Um >> but yeah. So that's a good point because that's now money out of your pocket

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James >> because it's not or you could scale back. >> So this so in area one, right? Um the original stuff from a couple years ago >> did not completely fix here and then connect which was less expensive. >> Yeah. But the problem with that is you

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can't pick up any pressure. >> Yeah. Because then you pressure on all these. So you don't you can't pick up any of the like if these are commercial properties then you can't pick those up because it's on the force vein side. Whereas if this is gravity, you can run the lines to connect in. >> Okay. >> Um, so we went back to this one and also

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because if you do this, the pump station is going to end up going on one of these private parcels whereas here, this is already town property. So we could put it in that pull out area and then >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But it >> something to consider. So >> if you could take five minutes just to

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wrap it up. Talk about you covered the sewer. Talk about the water. You need water for the sewer to work. >> Yeah, I fly through this by fly. >> Yeah, nice job. >> I don't know how

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>> I don't have this plan to go away. >> Um, all right. So, this is a map from 2014. Similar science, right? Like the whole like we want to expand. There's like proposed development. Uh, but we need water in it, right? So at some point uh right you guys remember the dry

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water man that was installed down uh main street by CVS and around and then there was some here doing uh and we just recently did a project to accommodate uh the 7-Eleven beta and

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back there. So that water got well. Um okay but the the biggest thing is we want to increase the amount of water available so in town center so that we have water and sewers to promote

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uh development in the town center area. So, for example, like parcels, uh, which are on Main Street, right, that they're planning on developing a firehouse, right? I think it's what it's called, like a firehouse development. They'll have some like uh um apartments,

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restaurant with a rooftop, which sounds cool, and uh uh so like retail and stuff like that. So, but again, uh the water and sewer are important in order to get uh those people hooked up because what happens is developers who want to

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connect, they go to violia, they ask for a will serve letter, which is basically a document that states that the water is available to this point. And why that main is dry on 515 is because there was not water uh available under their permit. So, there's two factors at play.

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We have the water allocation permit which is basically how much water you're allowed to take out of the aquafer um before it starts maybe impacting other surrounding communities because as you draw that well down it could lower like in certain areas that have like Bryberg Michigan right Poland Springs comes in d

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pumps out so much water that everyone's wells run dry right so that's why you have a certain amount that you're allowed to take out and then you have something that's called firm capacity so firm capacity is part of like how the water is delivered right so there's a certain permit that equipment you have to have redundancy.

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So basically if one goes out of service it's it's your firm capacity is how much water you have available with your largest pump out of Right. So what we've been working with Napoleia on the and this is started in 2014. So this exhibit right here was done in 2014 which

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outlined what would have to happen in order to get water from down here which is near Mount Creek South up to the town center area of gradient. uh this is representing uh the different projects that uh they had identified. So the one that we are working on right now which

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is uh the the draft design is in here if you guys look at it but this is the 515 water man sorry the route 94 waterman um which basically this is one of the projects that was identified additional projects that need to happen in order to

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get uh the water allocation increase and to get it into this area. Uh we had we drilled a third 400 gallon per minute well or for that >> for the well the 400 >> um

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>> we did pay >> yeah I wasn't sure because it seemed like that was worth going on right so they have a new three 400 gallon per minute well uh now they have three so now with one out of service they have 800 gpm which is now maxing out their

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now what happens is the water allocation permit Now that we jumped the firm capacity up here, one of the other things we're working on is a major modification of our allocation fund that to gain even more water. We have kind of a phase to put the first thing that we are this is this has a deadline at the

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end of the dispenser money. So we've come up with an approach with bead how we're going to do that but um it's contained in these projects. We have the water man here. Uh we have this which is basically a reconfiguration of the distribution system. Basically you have like a high pressure zone or a low

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pressure zone which is being worked on by biol and their consultant through the hydraulic model and things like that which is really water system specific. We're designing this water m here uh because that's kind of like more in our purview. So we're doing this one and then they have an altitude valve that basically manipulates the operation of

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the tank which is up in like the Mount Creek property. Um, and the well, I have all of them written down, but these that's basically the upgrades that need to take place. Um, so far we have the ARP money. The ARP money was COVID money. Uh, the CO money we got was 2.2

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million. So, we've got $2.2 million from ARP money. The ARP money is kind of like less stringent as far as like how it's administered. like the EPA grant, you have to do work plans to figure out like what environmental impacts there might

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be to make sure that the EPA isn't funding something that's going to be like a catastrophic environmental like catastrophe or whatever. Um, right. But the ARPA money set to expire at the end of the year. So, uh, we've spent basically 600,000 approximately uh, of

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which covers wells. Uh, we have a major water allocation study that that that's being done by another engineering company WSP who's a hydrogeeologist. Um but anyway, so these are the upgrades. This is the franchise area. So this is the So the franchise area

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basically like where the own was permitted to like run water manes. So but they can only put things in the franchise area if asked for by the town, right? So the town uh this was also proposed in 2014. So these green parcels

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are the existing sewer service area. This is Route 94 here and this is by 15 for like Burger King sear. Uh then these purple are the areas that we're looking to expand within town center. So each of these parcels what you do is we worked with Violia on a kind of like a

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developers agreement. Um but basically each of these parcels we had uh calculated how much demand we think that they would need. Right? So like the parcels that are on uh Main Street over here like we we have an

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idea of how much water that is. We have this entire list of uh parcels and like what they are planning on using. But here's the thing. So there's a finite amount of water that we're going to get from this development or from

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this this operation, right? And that number is something like, put it in easy terms, we're going to produce enough order to make I think the number was like 300 threebedroom houses or something like that, right? In terms of equivalent

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dwelling units, but let's just picture it like 300bedroom units throughout town. That's like how much water you have approximately. Um now what we have to do is these parcels that are here in purple have basically been earmarked and are like known areas

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of development. So what happens is of the 300 parcels that we could develop, these areas will be uh divied up water on a first come first- serve basis, right? Um but now there's another there's another element of this. Uh so

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we have this franchise area now, uh Mountain Creek and the Mac, you know, the ski shop down in McAfee. >> So they're looking to build a 80 town homes, uh 40 twobedroom, 43 bedrooms. They have a concept plan uh and they're going into that. Um the thing is they're

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looking for 16,000 gallons, but that ends up being about a quarter of it. So they're going to wipe out, let's say, right? That makes sense. Like 75 of the 300, right? That that makes sense. But if we do that, that is

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now taking away that water from this area. So, Mountain Creek went to uh Violia and they said, "Hey, can we get a will serve letter for this apartment?" And Violia, what they do since it's not in what was agreed upon, because the town is spending their money to

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accommodate certain areas, right? So if someone else is going to come through and now use the water the town paid for and it's outside of what was envisioned in the first, we better make sure it's something that is like good for the town because it's taking the water away that we had for town center. So now uh like

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for example, there's two parcels, the McAfee property and the uh firehouse property which is along here. If you look at both of their demands that they're looking for right now, there's only capacity to accommodate one of those two. when the expansions are done, there'll be there'll be enough order to

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accommodate both of those, right? But now I have other people because we've met with the mayor, uh we've talked several times with Violia to basically itemize all of these potential users that are looking to connect. So we have a list of like 15 or so uh uh parcels,

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you know, some of the one key developments uh over here where the right is they're looking to build and build up here. There's a car wash that's going to be going on the corner. Uh that that auto body shop. So, but here the the thing is if you consider all of

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these, there really isn't water for that MCA development. So, again, decisions have to be made as to like, hey, when people are coming from outside of this planned area in town center, do we want to give them a quarter of the water that we're ultimately uh be

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developing? The other thing is that 300 three-bedroom units, there's like a little bit of a card in your back pock. We have a card in our back pocket which is that water allocation modification permit because what that is is soft costs. So when uh

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WSB does their hydraulic uh through geological evaluation um if they send their permit request to increase that cap there's no construction that needs to take place because it's all contained in uh in these upgrades. Right? So now if you can

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get that approved, you up the firm capacity and then what we're going to do is we're going to try to m maximize that firm capacity and water allocation permit. So we can the most that we can pump out is the most we're allowed to pump out. That's kind of the goal. Um so we do have that card in our back pocket where we might

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get more, but that's not guaranteed. So really we're looking at like more of a guarantee the 300 units, right? So if that's not going to be uh enough for like some of the stuff in here, we probably should not be giving

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back water unless people in the town agree that that is while for the public or the best thing for the the Vernon. >> So essentially what you're saying is the township has to set priorities on the

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availability. >> Yeah. And it can't wait >> what drives it. >> Yeah. And we kind of discussed that things in here are like a first come first serve. But uh because we can't you can't like pick and choose, right? You can't be like, "Well, we'd like that first but not that one." So you can you can have the water, but you can't have

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the water. It all went into the into the agreement. So if people are going to develop, they're going to develop under that agreement. Uh and it's going to be first. People are outside of this, which actually brings up an interesting partial on the firehouse. Uh

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thanks It's a lot behind the firehouse. >> Where am I? >> Yeah. So, like this actually right here something that we have to look at because they're proposing to put the clubhouse

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uh pool and apartments on these two parcels, but they're technically not in the sewer service area, which is like I have to go for a developer agreement. We didn't account for them in what we're planning on building. So this again is something that we're going to have to talk about. >> Yeah. Hope we don't have

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>> exactly like this is this wasn't included in the planning. So you know we're going to have to look at you know whether or not the town wants to permit them. But again when they per when we permit that that's for water that's coming out than what was accounted for originally. So um

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yeah so that money has to be spent at the end of the year. We do have a plan. Uh you can see kind of how far along we are on this. This is going to be a big hitter for where the money is going to be spent. Uh Paul, you could you have the the whole draft if you want to produce it. Um but we'll be moving

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forward with that. Um when we award a contract, that money will come off the books, uh the Relius contractor by the end of the year when it's awarded and then the money is out and we don't have to worry about the assets. It's off the

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book. So, uh, we're going to continue developing this. Uh, hopefully by September, we're soliciting, uh, bids. >> Bids. We get the bids, we'll award the bid, town pays the check, money's off the books, and we're gone.

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>> I had a question. It's probably more for Violia than for you. >> If someone Violia for that will serve, >> can't hear you, Paul. If someone approaches Violia for the will serve, like they will give them water. Is there a timeline that they have to

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use that like just like you know a liquor license, somebody holds it forever and now nothing's happening with it? >> So, I think there is a one-year period uh when a will serve letter is received before it expires. There is an expiration date in the willerve letter that is issued. Um to my knowledge I

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don't know that there's like a definitive plan if like 10 people got will serves because on an individual basis they all had water for all of them but combined they don't. I don't know what would happen as it went down the line right >> but I think that's why they put the time frame because the real the reality of the situation is like as you're

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developing something by the time like the likelihood of everyone getting to that point simultaneously I guess is like so low that it doesn't really occur. It's me speculating on what I know from like just hearsay of EA, but I know >> if you could make a summary statement so

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we could wrap it up because it seems like >> water >> going whatever you want to talk about. Seems like there's three conversations that taking place here. Water, sewage, no money competing with Viola. I I have no confidence that we're moving in the

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right direction. It just seems >> seems like we're disjointed. It's it seems to me. Well, to be clear, the water project is a township project. Um, but I can give information on that. So, James explained with Violia, the township passed um a

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uh developers agreement with them for to the tune of just over $3 million for the entire project to bring water into town center. Um the current allocation is a certain number of gallons. A portion of that project is drilling a third well to be able to reach the max current

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allocation that the town's able to bring water into town center. However, by drilling that well, you are you actually are able to increase your allocation even more provided that you do the additional permitting which the town opted to do when they did the developers agreement with Violia two years ago now,

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right? I think so. I believe you were on the board. Um, and then that's been moving forward. the town in the developers agreement um pays out funding requests to Violia. You can check with your CFO on how much exactly has been sent out on that. Um we get

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reports from them monthly now because I requested them and the mayor has been nice enough to do that. So the MUA is aware that obviously affects sewer in the townships. >> Um I believe it's like 600,000 but she would know exactly. um when you've talked to Biolia they they constantly say it's nice to see

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this project moving forward the way it is haven't been seen from people who have been around. So I mean there has been commentary like that I can't really speak to because for me but it does seem like uh from the people have been from the early early days and maybe back to

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like 2014 it seems like uh this is like the most momentous people have seen a little bit of time. So >> right so to speak >> true it's encouraging. >> Yeah. so to speak to that. So, Violia is moving in the process again to bring additional water into town center. Um, that involves a number of things. Um,

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which again was provided to the council a couple years ago with regards to like a high pressure bait pressure enough to bring the water into town center. That's say the goal. Um, it involves a lot of engineering and hydro whatever that is beyond my mental scope. I apologize for

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that. Um, but that is being taken care of. They are well aware. I've had numerous meetings with them um when I used to work with the township. They're aware of the deadline. Um they have given, you know, pretty much a guarantee that that money from the ARP, the cash will be spent out by the end of the

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year. Um again, if you guys want monthly reports, you can check with your CFO regarding that. And I think the town is on track to have more water in town center, which has been the goal for >> Is there anything we can do for the Emmy now >> over a decade? >> Council, is there anything we can do?

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Well, Kathy, >> we go because I think the general consensus that I I wanted to convey is that some decisions need to be made by uh like a representative from the town who has more intimate knowledge about

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some of these folks that like hey is definitely not in the town's best interest to give water to Macy or it definitely is in the town's best interest like up towards uh you know again if you just look at the number metrics like it doesn't always paint the full picture. So by

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just making sure everyone is feeling on the same page, we want that transparency that so that we're making decisions both in our judgment, but also with what the town, you know, what the town knows and their input. So the mayor has been very helpful on the water side of things kind

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of uh bridging the gap between some of the stuff with the MUA and the meetings with Bolia just to make sure that because again like Danell said the water is a town project but uh sometimes it was like hard to be like hey like we're from the town is like the quarterback or the the champion of that to make sure

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that the town is being represented right >> not just the MU right so it's the mayor has been very helpful in kind of coordinating some of those things to make sure that at least at least someone on the town side is aware and that's why Paul was adamant about having a joint meeting so

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that we kind of explain some of the stuff that's been going on now that things are really you know gaining a little bit of momentum to make sure that we're making decisions in the best interest of everyone >> and I think if the town council because this has been discussed on the MUA side we've discussed it with the mayor um and if the town council is comfortable with

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the MUA continuing the conversation right I mean obviously it's up to the mayor but continuing the conversation with Violia and kind of having um a lot input. There's a lot of knowledge in this board um about water in general and obviously it feeds into the sewer issues in the town, right? Um the board is more

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than willing to do that, right? Um yeah, and I've already given like the okay because you know, you've been you've been at this from the beginning. Um this is something that I don't think anyone's going to try to sit here and try to learn this and take take ownership of it. I know uh thank you very much for

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for for running with that. Um, again, it's not something that was part of the MUA, but again, you guys have been at this. Um, I see you guys the expert at it. And, um, like I said, we all have the same goals, right? And and, uh, and

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and we'll get there. So, thank you again for stepping up and and willing to take that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> When's your next MUA meeting? >> Two weeks. Two weeks from now. Uh, two weeks from Thursday. Yeah. >> Weeks that you meet twice a month.

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>> No, just once. >> Once this stuff gears up, it'll probably be twice again. >> When this really gets moving, we'll probably going twice a month. Once once actual work >> once we get shovels in the ground and we're ready, then we're going to >> Yeah, the 18th. >> Okay.

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>> It's Thursday the 18th is. >> Great. Thank you. Thanks. >> Thanks, John. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all very much. >> Thank you all. All right, for your time longer than probably any >> better to spend the time now than worry about it later.

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>> You have any have any comments? >> That's what happens when you let the engineer run. >> They'll geek it out for you. Anyway, thanks J. >> Yeah. So, just just quick we had the uh PBA had their fundraiser

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at kind of a weird weekend. turnout wasn't as great as I will open but anyhow it was there was a great day. Um after that fundraiser um I joined uh

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our commissioners and mayors uh throughout Sussex County um for the 250th year um anniversary celebration. Uh, one of the things that that we also did um was a um this time

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capsule that the county has put together. Um, and we took a few items um, which was this uh, proclamation and also a Vernon Township sticker and also a challenge coin from the Vernon Police

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Department. Um, that went into I'm gonna I'll post the pictures. um that went into the time capsule which will be opened up in 50 years. Um we were kind of uh commissioner the Groot I think we kind of volunteered him to be the guy because I don't how many of us

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>> yeah I think we'll be gone at that point about it. >> So um anyway so that that was put into the the time capsule as well. Uh tomorrow is our uh senior Olympics. Um so wishing our seniors the uh best of

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luck. I have some early morning meetings and but I'll I'll get out there after to join them towards the end anyway. Um and June 13th is Vernon day. It's also again our uh celebration. Um the VFW is is

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kind of heading that up. Um but I said we're we're we're always here to we are going to help them in some capacity. I am meeting with them on Thursday at BFW just to sit in and offer whatever we could to

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um and that is that's all my comments. So it's going to tell us >> public comments >> draft design otherwise it's for >> public comment the water >> three minutes for person any items that's on the agenda have a motion to

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open public comment >> motion >> second all in favor >> I >> any members of the public here to speak no members The public wishes to come forward. Have a motion to close the meeting. >> Motion. >> Second. >> Second. >> Nothing else. All >> in favor?

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>> Next. Review. Review of bills list. >> I have one. Uh, Patty 66033. Repair of the fire truck from the accident for $19,500. We get insurance money to offset that. Okay.

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>> So, what we'll do is whatever money we get from the insurance, we will reset that. We will reverse that line item. Okay. Thank you. And may I make a comment? >> Sure. >> And again, uh, the cars, I think we can buy a new car every month

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what we're paying in leasing. So I I know you said you will take a look at >> um I we met with Enterprise um weeks and we're going to be meeting with them again. Um just had a quick um of

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our first meeting and I did want to I sat down with the administrator and I'm thinking um again I'm learning more and more each time we sit with them. It sounds like for the patrol cars and the cars that are on the road a lot have put a lot of

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hours on it they call it seems it's beneficial to have the lease program but some of these vehicles that are like the admin vehicles that we're not using as much um is not. So we do have the fire prevention people coming up that technically is the lease is over. He's only got 21,000 miles on it.

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>> We're buying it out. I I just So, we're looking at that type of um uh what the So, Tina sent out an email to all department heads that when their leases are up that they need to set a meeting with us for us to look at each thing

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instead of just split leasing companies going, "Oh, it's only $30 more a month and you get another." And we're like, "Yeah, yeah, but it's now, you know, so are we are starting to fine-tune that." >> Okay, great. Right. >> Thank you. >> No problem. >> Yeah. So, let us know. Keep us. >> Yeah. Again, we're meeting with them

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again. Like I said, they kind of It's a lot. So, they came the one time. We're going to be going over some more stuff, but I met with See, Sergeant >> No, >> Lieutenant >> Lieutenant Deart. Sorry, I don't know my

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ranks yet. Um, Ashley from the police department who deals with it a lot. myself and Elizabeth from my office and the four of us sat with them and after they left we all just kind of agreed that we need to dig deeper into this and really kind of because I agree with you

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it just seems like >> a lot of money for a car that they're like yeah but it's only we can get a lot of money back for yeah because it's only got 20,000 we could sell it for a lot of money too I mean >> but I don't think we need to and especially some of the vehicles >> and I don't know off the top of my head

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if fire prevention has it but then you have to upfit them too and like if we have to upit them it's that much more. So yeah we are going to be looking at as these leases are up on which ones make sense to move off of that and to what what ones make sense to stay on. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Yeah. >> Any other comments on billhost? Okay. We did approve all the minutes on both already >> glasses. And next to the consent agenda, number

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of items on the consent agenda if anybody wants to pull any of the individual ones out. >> I do. Please. >> Okay. Which one? >> And it would be just a quick question. Um 26197 26196. They're sort of related there.

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>> 1 197. >> Uh yes. >> 96197. Okay. Anyone else? So the consent agenda would be resolution 26 193 >> 26 194

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195 and then 198 through 207. >> That's correct. >> So there would be a motion for that consent. >> Have a motion to approve the consent agenda as >> second. >> Second. Roll call, please. >> Council member Cino,

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>> yes. >> Council member, >> yes. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council President Higgins, >> yes. >> Okay. So, may I speak? >> We have to move. >> Okay. So, my question probably is

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>> need a motion first. >> Oh, have a motion to enter in. Okay. No, you're you're asking have a motion to discuss. >> Yeah. 196 and 19. >> Yes, please. >> I'll make the motion. Second. >> Second. All in >> favor. I

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>> Okay. 196 is authorized. Cancel reserve balance small city's house >> and then >> you were going to get pulled >> right because you know I about that. >> Yes. >> I guess when when I spoke about this when we had our work sessions I did

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speak about this extra grant money. So now that >> so we'll start with the small cities one the 196. >> Okay. So, that is a reserve that's going to be go back into fund balance. Um, we were under um state review this year and

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the state says this is not a legal um reserve to have. >> Oh. >> So, because of that and that it was only $1,700, we're just going to cancel it. >> And you put it right. But does that go in a particular line? Like when you say fund balance, I mean

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>> fund balance is like our like the s the surplus that that >> but so you can't use it in a sense. It's just in the surplus. >> We'll go to the surplus and next year if you ever wanted to use it like it's kind of like your savings account. It's going into your savings account. It's just that it's not a they would not let us

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have that as a dedicated uh reserve. >> Okay. So now with the MAC grant so >> Okay. Yeah. That's a lot of money canceled. Okay. >> Yeah. We spoke about that. Now in my world I have to give grant money back. Yes, >> I don't spend so I don't know about this work.

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>> So the biggest number on this is the um in 2021. >> Yes, >> they awarded us a lot. Um I forget the exact amount but then they reduced it and they we didn't get all the money. So they the county did not give us the amount of money they awarded. It was

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right after COVID and with everything going down they took money back. So this is just to cancel. So, so let's say for simple numbers, say in 2020, uh 21, they told us they were giving us $20,000. They only gave us $5,000. So, I have to cancel this off the books. So, this is

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what I'm doing is >> So, we basically never had the money. >> It didn't. >> Correct. We never got it and we weren't we're not going to get it. So, these balances are just to write off money that we either didn't get or um well, didn't spend. >> So, the money that you didn't spend will then go into fund balance then? No, we

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never get So >> I never got any of this money. >> So back. What happens is you have to spend it and then send it to county for a reimbursement. >> Okay. >> So we never spent it. So it's just a wash. >> Okay. >> So this money will not go into fund ballot.

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>> Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Welcome. >> One one comment on on resolution 26206 that I meant to pull out. I didn't. authorizing

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approval of Sussex County contribution to Vernon EMF. If >> I'm correct, county always gave us $15,000, $5,000 for each of the uh units, whether it was EMS, fire,

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ambulance. >> So, I heard um Right. And but now they're only giving us 5,000 everybody >> them together. >> Right. So I think we were discussing was it we were discuss in your office trying to remember who we were discussing it with that um yeah now that they merged

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only give them five and we thought maybe a conversation with them would be nice to say hey look you used to give us 15 we merged the three now you're giving us five for the whole thing. So, um I think >> taking the action or you're taking the responsib

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Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Could be $10,000 left on the on the books. So, we should get >> Yeah, absolutely. >> You just have to go back to resolution 261 196 and 197 to approve them. >> Oh, I got you. Um >> Okay.

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>> What resolution was that? So resolution 26 196 was pulled out 197 and now 206 >> 206 we already voted on >> vote on that. We didn't vote on 196 or 197 >> correct >> have a motion to vote on 196.

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>> Second please. >> Is this just for 196 and >> 196? >> All right. Second. >> Roll call. >> Council member Canino? >> Yes. >> Council member Ols. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. Yes. >> Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins.

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>> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Have a motion to vote on resolution 26197. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Yes. >> For member Holmes? >> Yes.

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>> Council member Rudo? >> Yes. >> Member? >> Yes. >> Wiggins? >> Yes. >> Ordinances introduced. Ordinance 2612, ordinance establishing the salaries of certain offers and employees of the Township of Vernon, County of Sussex

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State, New Jersey. I have a motion to introduce ordinance 26-12. >> Second. Roll call. >> Council member Canino. >> Yes. >> And if I want to make an amendment, do we vote on it after we can

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do that in a second? I want >> this is just for introduction. >> I can't do an amendment on the introduction. So then when we the final it's done. >> They've amended introduction before. >> We haven't.

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>> Well, I amended the >> Yes. The center one on introduction. >> I think you you what you did is you amended it before, >> didn't you? >> Before it was introduced. >> Y. >> All right. So, can we unintroduce it? Well, this is to introduce only which

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later on at a future meeting will be the discussion. >> Well, on on second, usually what you do is either vote for or against it. Uh, usually the ordinance, you know, was discussed and is is >> No, I think we can amend it on the first

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reading. You guys have done that before. >> Oh, I guess you could make a motion. >> Yes, I'd like to make a motion to amend this on the first reading. >> I have a second. What are you amending? >> Just one one item. >> You have to say what the amendment is.

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>> A second to do the amendment. >> People don't know what it is. So, how why would anyone second something? >> I can't second something. I don't know what you're amending. >> Okay. So, all right. So, I'd like to bring tax collector from the low number 75 to 115.

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>> Wait, wait, wait. From 75,000 to 15. That's the spread. >> The spread 95 115. So, I'd like to make a motion to amend the first reading of the salary ordinance for the tax collector uh minimum and maximum to change

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to 95 to 115 as the high the max. >> And what is it currently? >> Say again. >> Currently, what is it? >> 75. >> Currently, it is 75 to 115. So, I would like to make a motion to amend that. >> May I just ask a question? is the tax.

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What's So some of these >> she's making that much. So then are we gonna >> and you're giving her a raise? So some of So some of these are statutory. So if you raise >> Yes. So if you raise a percentage on certain statutory like the clerk's

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office, >> she's missed all those raises. >> If you were to raise I'll say >> you'd have to raise the other statutory positions by that same amount. same percent >> I caution >> but then shouldn't she be even with everybody else then

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>> excuse me I caution discussion without a rice notice we have one particular person in that position >> and the fact that you're talking about that position immediately uh establishes the identity

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>> okay >> so >> so is this some you might want to pull it. >> Let's I'd like to make a motion to >> Well, wait. >> Hold off on this.

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>> So, you you already have a motion to amend. You're you're trying to articulate what you want to amend. You want to there there's a question and that's why it's important to kind of bring these questions before the meeting. As I was trying to say before, certain statutory positions, the clerk,

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the tax collector, uh the assessor, um >> CFO, >> the CFO, >> there's four >> there there's four of them. If you raise one of them, you have to raise the other ones the same percentage. So any type of manipulation of one and and by the way, you can't take you can't treat them

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those positions different. Um, so I I again I don't know where those four statutory employees. Um, >> wouldn't they all be in the same salary range? >> Well, some of them have higher ranges. So some of them were higher like this,

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this CFO was hired at a different range than the previous >> Mhm. >> CFO. Um, so >> so but so we changed that range. So shouldn't we have then given everybody else an increase? No, because this is a new employee

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>> when you this this was a new employee. So they were hired >> about the other people are getting raises higher than somebody else. >> I'm trying I'm trying to explain. You just keep cutting me off. >> Sorry. Go ahead. Explain >> again. So if you have these current

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employees, if one of those that you're trying to change is a current employee, you you could affect the other three, which then would they would the statutory would trigger and they would be required to get that same um increase. And I don't think you

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allocated the money in the budget for a significant change. That would be a question that the CFO would have to uh answer, but I don't think you >> we were kind of tight. >> So, have to double check, but we were kind of tight on our numbers.

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>> So, to table this ordinance. >> So, can I just say though >> because there is another question on the same ordinance that may cause it to be tabled as well. >> All right, then. I was just going to say if it was the only instance I was going to say we could still pass it with

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because it that 95 falls within the range. It would just be more of a discussion if you wanted to give her an increase. I don't know if the salary like if you decide to pay the person that number, it still falls within the range. So the ordinance wouldn't had to been amended

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>> to raise it to the you know what I'm saying? As long as you pay within somebody within the range that's on the salary ordinance, you're okay. So it would have just been more to want to give the a person a raise. >> So if that's the only question, but apparently there's another one. >> That makes sense. Yeah. But that

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wouldn't assure the bump up. >> But what was your question? >> Yeah. My other question on it was uh underneath the uh public works, are we adding a new position here? >> No. >> No. Someone's already like in that role.

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I think we I think that the I think the point of this whole uh salary ordinance thing was to do housekeeping. Correct. To to tie into um civil service, right? >> Well, no, because this one >> the super hiring a position for it.

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>> No, but it's a new position in the salary ordinance, >> right? This was not in the original. So, so yes, other items. So, all of this was a lot of this was housekeeping. We had to change titles to match CI civil service, but there was an addition of one.

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>> So, the answer is yes. There is an additional title in there >> on there. Yeah, that uh it's a title. We're not hiring. >> Well, it shouldn't be on there if we don't. Is there someone that's currently employed that's looking to move into that position? And then what happens

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position? You have to >> the whole the whole process, the whole civil service process. Um but uh >> I think this all should have been discussed and instead of just sitting up here and we find that so you're looking to take a person who's employed create a

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new position moving into that at a higher rate and possibly hiring a person in his old position >> unless of course you redo you omit or get rid of the previous position. >> No that one

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>> he's he's already kind of in that role. um this is just to I guess label it um properly and I think same with same with some of these other um positions but we are not hiring for that position you say

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we're not hiring employees uh at the DPW for that for that role but you created a position move somebody into it on your own and now there's still the vacant position that he was in before which >> I I Just can't imagine you're doing that.

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>> I think it falls again falls under the housekeeping of of setting the a ruling from our >> that's another employee added. >> No, the money has hire whatever employee whatever position is it would have to have been funded in the budget >> and it wasn't

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>> correct. So then you can't hire someone or spend money that you don't >> right. So how can how can you do that? >> We're not hiring. You're from >> So is it just that is it is it just a title change mayor? >> Yeah, >> it is.

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>> Where did someone is already in that role? >> Where did the money come from? >> Sounds >> It was a total of $50,000 that was being spread out. Where did this >> They're not They're not They're not getting um that raise.

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That's not We're not creating a a position. At least to the best of my knowledge, we're not creating a position. He's someone already in that role. Um, >> he created a role and >> just wasn't in it. >> You created a role, moved somebody into it, right?

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>> He He's in a uh he's in a role already under that. So, it's just labeling what he actually is doing. I think that's like I said, I think it's more of a housekeeping >> doing before. >> What's that? >> What was he doing before?

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I don't know if I want to could go into it here. Um, >> can you pick that up? I'm sorry. I didn't hear what you said. >> Personnel now. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's it is Peter. >> It could be. It's not something that we should be talking about u on public notice the employee. You're going to

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talk about his role. >> Um, I would motion to this. >> Yes. I second that motion >> to do what? >> Table it. Table it >> till we get some more answers. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> I motion to table and Sandy seconded. >> Okay.

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>> Roll call, please. >> Council member Canino, >> yes. >> Council member Ols, >> yes. >> Council member Rudo, >> yes. >> Council member Sparta, >> yes. >> Council, >> yes. >> Motion carries to app.

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Ordinance 2613 authorizing the sale of certain land of Ver Township sold a public auction in accordance with New Jersey SA4A12-13. Have a motion to introduce ordinance 26-13. >> Second

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>> second. >> Yes. >> Holmes. >> Yes. >> Council member Rudo. >> Yes. Council member Sparta. >> Yes. >> Council President Higgins. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> I've got a question about it though.

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>> Friends this auction. >> Max span. >> Is it Max Span company? >> Yes. Okay. Public comment five minutes any topic. Have a motion to open the meeting to the public. Move.

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>> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I see. No one from the public. Motion to close the uh meeting to the public. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Council comments. Mr. Cina. Um, I want

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to thank the MUA for coming out to do the presentation that they did. I definitely learned a lot from it and I hope other people watching the meeting did too. And I'm excited to >> No comments. >> Oh, no. No comment.

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>> No comment. Mr. Florida, >> no comment. >> All right. And no comment from the council president. Have a motion to adjourn the meeting. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> You got a second?

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>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> motion the meeting is your stair was like >> you call me before. Yeah.