IDs are late, but you could do whatever you want. >> Yeah, there's no >> Yeah. Okay, good evening everybody and welcome to this regular planning board meeting on March 26, 2026. I don't know why this is flashing already. Um, I think I
screwed up the entire PA system at the last meeting and I don't think it's ever going to be better again. Um, can everybody who can please stand and join us for the flag to the indivisible
and justice for all. >> Um, Madam Chair, um, Madam Secretary, can you please read the Open Public Meetings Act and take Yeah, they're notice requirements for the Open Public Meetings Act have been satisfied with respect to this meeting of the Township
of Verona Planning Board, which is being held in the ballroom of the Verona Community Center located at 880 Bloomfield Avenue, Verona. Spec specifically, the time and date were included in the annual notice of meetings. This information along with the meeting agenda was posted in the
municipal building and on the legal notices web page of the township website and sent to the official newspapers of the township, the Verona Cedar Grove Times, and the Star Ledger at least 48 hours preceding the start time of this meeting. The agenda and public handouts for this meeting can be viewed online at
the township's website. Instructions on how to comment will be provided at the appropriate time. Those wishing to speak during any public comment period should only provide their name and municipality. Street addresses are not required. Please be advised that should a member of the public choose to state
their street address, it will not be reducted from this recording. Um, thank you, >> Mr. Magro. >> Here, >> Mr. Day, Mrs. Parker, >> Mr. Lily >> here,
>> Mr. Kamoodi >> here, >> Mr. Presky >> here, >> township manager Sullivan >> here. >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy >> present. >> Mayor Tambbero, >> Vice Chair Heinman >> here, >> Chair Pearson >> here, >> board attorney, Miss Sarah
>> here, >> Dr. Gonzalez >> here, >> Miss Tanwir >> here, >> and Miss Nish here. and Sam, Mr. Siobhan, Miss Siobhan. >> Okay. Um, at this time,
uh, we will open public participation for anything that is not on this evening's agenda. Does anybody have a comment on anything that is not on this evening's agenda? Seeing none, I'm going to close public
comment. Um we uh will move right into approval of meeting minutes. We will be passing two sets of meeting minutes February 26th and the special meeting from March 3rd. Has everybody received and had a uh chance to review those?
I'll answer. Can we pass them both together? >> No. >> Okay. Um that's right. Because people might not have been there. Uh would anybody like to make a motion to adopt the February 26th? I'll move to adopt.
>> Second. >> I guess Mr. Lily seconds. Roll call, please. >> Um, >> Mr. Lily. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kamoodi. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Fresky. >> I don't know which one I wasn't. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. You were absent for that meeting. >> Okay. Um, Township Manager Sullivan, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy, >> yes. >> Mayor Tim Burrow, >> Vice Chair Heman, >> yes.
>> Chair Pearson, >> yes. >> The mo uh motion passes. Uh, meeting minutes are approved. I'll now entertain a motion to uh approve the meeting minutes from the special meeting of March 3rd. Can I get a motion?
>> So moved. >> Deputy mayor makes the motion. Can I get a second? Second, >> Mr. Lily seconds. Roll call, please. >> Uh, Mr. Lily, >> yes. >> Mr. Kamoody, >> yes. >> Mr. Fresky,
>> yes. >> Township manager Sullivan, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy, >> yes. >> Um, Vice Chair Heinman, >> abstain. >> And Chair Pearson, >> yes. Uh, >> minutes are approved and they are adopted. um
a consistency determination. Um the amendment of zoning chapter 157.5 permanent and portable swimming pools and 157.13 mechanical equipment.
Basically, we had um Greg rewrite these, send it to the council. the council accepted them and did the council make any updates to those >> not substituted them
>> we we mad chair >> uh one change was pertaining to I believe we have in here something about uh generators uh not within sideyard we added front yards also just to be specific >> okay does anybody have any issue with
that okay um being that We sent it to the council to adopt in the first place. I will entertain a moment uh a motion to find uh do we have to do these separately? >> Is there two different resolutions? Yes.
>> Uh it's one resolution. >> No, one resolution. >> Okay. Um entertain a motion to >> I'm sorry. Yes. First in first to vote on it and then to pass the resolution. >> Yes. But in mass both are both >> two sections of the ordinance.
>> Two sections of the ordinance in one vote. Okay. So I will entertain a motion to find both of those sections consistent with our master plan. Can I get >> I'll make a motion. >> Mr. Hyman uh Vice Chair Heyman makes a motion. Could I get a second?
>> Second. >> Mr. Fresky seconds. Roll call, please. >> Mr. Manro. Yes, >> Mr. Lily. >> Yes, >> Mr. Kamudi. >> Yes, >> Mr. Presky. >> Yes, >> township manager Sullivan.
>> Yes, >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Heman. >> Yes. >> Chair Pearson. >> Yes. >> Uh motion passes. I will now um I will entertain a motion to adopt
the resolution 20265 that states that um we are sending this to the governing body finding these sections consistent with the master plan. This is in your packets. >> I'll make a motion to approve the
resolutions drafted. Okay. Vice Chair Heman makes a motion. Can I get a second? I'll second it. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Magarell, >> yes. >> Mr. Lily, >> yes. >> Mr. Kamoodi,
>> yes. >> Um, Deputy Mayor Mackoy, >> yes. >> Uh, Tens Manager Sullivan, >> yes. >> And Vice Chair Heman, >> yes. and chair Pearson. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Excuse me.
>> Okay. So, >> Mr. Prosky. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I have a particular absent though on the 23rd. >> Yeah. But this is today is this is a today thing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I just wanted to clarify that
because I I checked my notes and I was here on the 26th of February and I was not here on March 3rd. >> Oh. Can you flip his vote? >> Yes. Thank you, Dave. Um, I'm going to boot the U
table of the subcommittee updates for this evening. Is that okay? Um, and u move right along to the updated bylaws. Has everybody received a copy of the updated bylaws? >> Yes. The only thing missing from those
is reference is a reference to chapter 55 in our code that lays out um the regulations for the township of Verona regarding the planning and the zoning board.
Um I think that should be cited where the X's are. Uh I think >> that was a placeholder. I just wanted to make sure that there were no other um no other portions of any of our ordinances that reference planning board and zoning
board. I just hadn't had a chance to do that. So, that was just a placeholder. So, we can obviously easily fill that in once I have that opportunity. >> Does anybody have an issue with that? >> No issue with that. I I just have three comments.
>> Sure. >> On it. Um the first one's um again Greg great job putting this together. Um one col2-3 responsibilities of the secretary there was the designation of the secretary
for uh completeness review and just administratively is that does DD do that already or is it happily >> is it sort of a dual effort >> want to >> um I take in the applications. >> Okay. But do you do you um communicate
the completeness after review? >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> No issues there. >> Number two. >> Number two. Um 1 col3-11 communications outside of meetings. So
paragraph B. says, "Once an application is submitted to the board, no board member shall in any manner or form engage in any discussion or communicate in any manner with a member of the public about the topic of any application before the board except during a public meeting. I would just
recommend changing topic to, you know, discussing the substance and the merits because topic could be, hey, are you hearing this?" Yes. If you want to come, it's this date. Okay. I would just >> you sent a note. >> Sure. I think it's >> I got it.
>> Okay. >> And then the last one 2 col 2-3 um it talks about the procedure. I would like a provision about any exhibits that are submitted um that aren't submitted
in advance. They be provided digitally um after the meeting. That's a great >> That's a great that because most towns Yeah. most towns now require that. So, right. Okay. >> So, once they're handed out, they need
to also be submitted to our kind of part of the application. Actually, >> I mean, yeah, I would prefer that they get done in advance, but exhibits sometimes can't be submitted in advance, but they are they should be submitted digitally. >> If they're not submitted in advance,
they should have handouts for the board. Okay. Yes, >> agreed. >> Easy to do. Good idea. Thank you. No problem. That's it. >> Any other comments or questions regarding this? >> If not, I'll entertain a motion to adopt
these new bylaws. And once done, DD, we're going to have to renotice to start our meeting at 7 p.m. starting in April. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Okay. to adopt madam chair as modified and >> the modifications will simply be
ministerial in nature. >> Great. So I'll make the motion to approve these um bylaws as amended during this uh discussion. >> I'll second it. >> Mr. Magaro. >> Yes.
>> Mr. Lily. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kimoody. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fresky. Yes. >> Township matter Joe Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Heindman. >> Yes. >> Chair Pearson. >> Yes. >> All right.
>> The bylaws are adopted. Um, next thing we move right to Sam um for the hearing of an area in need of redevelopment for 251 and a half avenue. Please, it's all yours, Sam. Thank you. Can everyone hear me?
>> Yes. kindness. >> Okay, I'll be a little louder. So, as you know, 251 and a half group Avenue area need a re uh graphical investigation. Since the past 3 months, we've done quite a few of these back to back. So, I don't um so I as you know
the area of red development is governed by the uh local breedment and housing law. Uh this is the site which is uh off of a Grove Avenue. Um the township council authorized us to do this and it
would be a non-condemnation reinvment. So no eminent domain or involuntary takings. Um the study area as I mentioned is off of uh Grove Avenue. It's uh surrounded by the commercial complex single family residential in
yellow and our wastewater treatment plant uh along its uh easterly border. Um the read weapon criteria I'm just um simplifying here just to uh remind everyone um there are there are about
eight criteria A for substandard buildings B for abandoned non-residential C for public or vacant unimproved uh land D for dilapidated areas and delriious land use E conditions of title
ownership F natural hazard uh G urb enterprise zone area and in H smart growth planning and the uh weed law describes it in great detail. Um I'm just keeping it short uh because we've
done this numerous times. Um so as I mentioned it's located on Grove Avenue. It's a county road that connects downtown Verona to Cedar Grove. it's within the community uh C2 zone and the revampment designation is aligned with
the township's planning goals. And one other thing just to bring to everyone's attention is that this was one of uh the affordable housing sites that we had reached the settlement and in that we will um uh this is the red route. It
satisfies for sure but through the redevelopment plan we have a greater control over the development of the land uh land. Uh typical to our red investigations we looked at the tax map accident
reports code violations Data um everything and we conducted uh three site visits on February 5th when we went it was snowed in. we couldn't even open the gate. 19th we could open the gate
but it was still covered. Uh and then March 12th so a few weeks ago we went again when everything had melted. So it kind of like you'll see uh if you've gone through the studies extensive uh
coverage of just how um you know awful the conditions are on site. Um so this key map is basically when we were writing the master plan in 202122 we had gone on site and as you can see in here
it's an old area um it was covered with um all outdoor storage which as a part of their settlement agreement with the township which I included as in appendix A they cleared it but it's still
has been vacant for long and abandoned. and it just shows very evident signs of uh uh deterioration. So I uh basically um didn't include a lot of pictures. You all have seen it.
It's um so these are a few pictures as you enter. Um it's throughout the site you can see uh internal buildings how they're in a bad shape and um uh and that's why it satisfies far more um
criterion than any of our prior studies. So um it meets criterion A because it focuses on the physical condition of the building. It's applicable to properties where the gen generality of the buildings are substandard, unsafe,
dilapidated, obsolescent or lacking in light a space. It's uh conducive to unh wholesome living or working conditions. And if you look at all um the pictures and our description um you know I've explained step by step how it meets
criteria A. So moving on to the next criterion which is B. Um this is on the discontinuence or vacancy of one or multiple buildings that were previously used for commercial and industrial uh
purposes. Um and in general properties that meet this criterion has been vacated for at least two con consecutive years and has been allowed to fall into a great state of disrepair as as to be untenable. Um, as per as per the representative for
the owner, they say they've been uh vacant and they had just uh leased out the outdoor space for more uh more than 10 years. But again, that's hearsay. Um, we are basing it also um on the fact
that we have a settlement agreement since 2022 to not use these sites. So, uh it meets that criteria as well. And then last but not the least which is criterion D which decides the outside as
well as inside of the buildings. And basically these this property meets this criterion because um it doesn't it's being used in a manner inconsistent with a modern language planning standards and
practices. Um finally um you know this study again it satisfies criterion A because there's neglect the severe deterioration based on the exterior and interior
conditions of the buildings and overall substandard conditions and it represents the discontinuence of all the buildings previously used for commercial and industrial purposes. They've remained vacant for at least two consecutive
years. And it's um it it uh it really was um very unsafe even to walk through these buildings, let's put it that way. And overall the study area represents uh obsolete site layout, poor sight
circulation um and uh disrepair, dilapidation. The entire site is covered with uh imperous gravel as well as asphalt. Uh very poor sight circulation. So it also satisfies
criterion D. Now criterion H really has no weightage by itself. But uh uh almost the entirety of the uh township Barona is in uh the metropolitan planning uh area one which is designated as the
state's preferred vehicle for redevelopment to um so that's why I've also included that criterion. Um so finally based on uh my report and um
based on all the appendices I would uh recommend that the plan board does uh make a recommendation to the governing body to designate the property as a non-condemnly shared area in need of redevelopment
and I am ready to answer any questions if you may. think the board would uh have it. >> Thank you, Sam. Next question. >> So, as of now, we don't know if any of the contamination that um in the
adjacent property has leeched over into this property. Is that correct? >> We don't know for sure. Uh but they have monitoring wells which I think I've written in my report and it's our understanding uh we looked at the DN data. It's our understanding that it is
uh it is uh due to soil potential soil contamination but whatever was there existing on this particular site has been remediated >> on this site >> on yes on 251 I have
>> you heard from any of the neighbors or did you contact anyone >> we don't need to we're not required to contact I don't >> and and to be honest with you. If I were a neighbor, I would rather see some things. >> Well, yeah. I'm just wondering if
>> if you if you look at few of those pictures, you can actually see how close they are to the residential single family homes. >> View is too question. You know, you you did a pretty comprehensive review of municipal records. there's a substantial history
of um police reports and police activity at the site. Um some indications of of breakins and things like that. Um you know, with the site, you know, being vacant for so long, uh and I did see some pictures, but you know, they don't
tell the full story, but based on your your inspection, was there evidence or physical conditions indicative of vacancy or anything like that? >> It was. And and I have pictures. There's one disgusting picture that
>> I will not want to talk about. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And the report and my report is very sanitized. There was there were a lot of vulgarities. It was just like oh god. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you for braving it. >> Any other questions? Um so at this point I don't think there is any question about the veracity of of your report. Um, I would entertain a motion to
um recommend to the uh governing body that uh this be determined as an area need of redevelopment based on uh subsection A, B, D, and H.
>> Madam Chair, just that it qualified that in the board's determination that it qualifies. >> Okay. Thank you. So second >> Mr. Froski moves. Vice Chair Heinman seconds. Can we get a roll call, please?
>> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> Point of order. Did we need to engage the public on this before we >> You're very hold that. Um that being said, >> no, >> I don't believe so. But um I do
>> well if any members I I'd rather heir on the side of conservative and be safe. If any members of the public and I apologize um to the members of the public that I left them out. Any members of the public have any comments on this
please approach the mic. Seeing none we will close public comment on this and again apologies. Dee, can you please call roll? >> Mr. Magarell, >> yes. >> Mr. Lily,
>> yes. >> Mr. Kimoody, >> yes. >> Mr. Presy, >> yes. >> Township matter Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor Makavoy? >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Heinman? >> Yes. >> Chair Pearson? Yes. Motion passes. Um, I will now also entertain a motion to
adopt resolution 2026-16. um which remains this in our own way. Um stating very much the same as we just voted, but now we're passing a resolution that says it. So um everybody received this
resolution today. Can I get a motion to adopt this resolution? >> I'll make that motion. >> Mr. Kamudi makes the resol uh makes the motion. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> Vice Chair Heman seconds. Bill, please.
Mr. Magarell, >> yes. >> Mr. Lily, >> yes. >> Mr. Kimoody, >> yes. >> Mr. Fesky, >> yes. >> Township manager Sullivan, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor Mackoy, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Heinman, >> yes. >> Chair Pearson,
>> yes. And just a a correction. These are not memorializations. These are actual resolutions. Um, both 20 2615 and 16 are top day. So they're not memorializing anything. They're
>> Well, the resolutions memorialize the action. >> Okay. >> I sit corrected. >> I just I usually see resolutions follow up. >> The resolutions govern. >> Okay. >> I see what you're saying.
>> Okay. Doesn't matter. It's fine. Leave it. Um at this time, uh we are going to begin the hearing. for application 20261 33 Bloomfield Avenue block 708 lot one
chair while they're setting up I have read the uh notice that was published and I served The application was deemed complete notice and proper so the applicant. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Are we ready, Madam Chair? Yes. Okay.
For the record, my name is Lisa John Bosam. I'm with the law firm T the Shahinian and Jan Mosi. On behalf of that applicant, the property that's before you this evening is the property at the corner of Bloomfield Avenue and Park Avenue, also known as 383
Bloomfield Avenue. And I'm sure a lot of people just simply refer to it as the Hillrest Farms property. The applicants of Flo Family LLC have been a longstanding color of the community for many years, owning and operating Hillrest Farms for over 70 years. The
application that is before you tonight is their next venture. The application is seeking preliminary and final site plan approval in order to construct a four-story mixeduse building with approximately 4,50 ft of commercial space on the first floor. I will note
for any of those that were said to think that Hillrest Farms will not be occupying that corner anymore. Don't be. Uh they will have space within the building for their retail nursery. So you will see those pretty flowers as you round the corner. Uh there will also be
33 residential units on the upper floors. They will be a combination of one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and three bedrooms. And in true Palos family fashion, they are giving back to the community. Out of the 33 units, there will be two unit two units with a total
of five special needs bedrooms and one three family affordable unit for a total eligibility of 11 credits for the municipality for affordable housing. As the board is well aware, this property was designated as an area needed redevelopment. A redevelopment plan was
adopted. The application that's before you tonight is a fully conforming site plan application with the exception of a design waiver for landscaping. There was also a notation that there was a a variance for the retaining wall.
However, we will come into compliance with that and our next witness will discuss that in greater detail. Tonight, we intend to call two witnesses. Paul Anderson who's our civil engineer as well as Greg Schwitzer who is the project architect. We also have in in attendance our traffic engineer um to
answer any questions related to his report that he submitted in advance of tonight's meeting. So, if it's okay with the chairwoman, I'd like to call our first witness and have him sworn. Uh yes, and I just want to say we apologize if our mics aren't working. You have a
perfect voice for this room. You feel it. But I'm going to ask that any other witnesses that speak see if you can try to be as loud as possible so that your speech is picked up by our s by our lacking system.
Can you state your full name and business address for the record, please? Paul W. Anderson on 40 Miller Drive, New Jersey. Mr. Anderson, can you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth? I do. Thank you.
Paul, very briefly, uh, can you give your educational professional background for the board? >> Bachelor of Science and Civil Engineering from Clarkson University 1983, licensed professional engineer since 1988. My license is in good standing. I'm the principal of Anderson Consulting
Services who prepared these plans and I testify on a regular basis in front of boards such as this board throughout the state of New Jersey. >> I have to be qualified as an expert in civil engineering. Anyone have any issues? >> No.
>> Thank you. And Paul, you were the preparer of the civil engineering test and the storm war soil warings and all the civil engineering documents that were submitted in advance of tonight's meeting. Is that correct? >> Yes, I was. >> Okay. Uh if we can then start by orienting the board uh to the property
location and the existing uses. >> Okay. So, it's a 1.26 26 acre parcel on the corner of Park Avenue and Bloomfield Avenue. You can see from the aerial photograph that I have in the PowerPoint presentation that is a fully developed
site. It has uh 68% impur coverage being roots and asphalt. Uh some of the some of the area in the back that probably used to be asphalt is now gravel. Uh hard pack gravel. I did counted I did not count that towards the improper. The
buffer on the eastern side is uh the minimus is probably about three and a half ft. Uh there are two full movement driveways that enter uh the property from Bloomfield Avenue and then that section going across two lanes could be
a hazardous condition with the full movement. Uh we have one access drive on Park Avenue. Uh behind the main building and uh to the uh west of this is uh to the east and south are single family or
uh multif family apartments and to the uh west is the single family and to the north is commercial which is within the underlying uh zone the extended town center zone. The property generally slopes from northeast to southwest or
from the eastern corner on Bluefield Avenue towards the uh far corner on Park Park Avenue. And as as just mentioned, this is an area of redevelopment, designated area of redevelopment. >> Do you want to go into a little bit more
detail about the existing structures on the property? >> Sure. We have uh the main building on the corner. Uh all the this is from the demolition plan. Uh basically everything on site is going to be removed. Uh they will remove the main uh main building on
corner. Uh the the uh canopy over towards the the east or east of that and all the green houses and storage buildings. The asphalt on site will all be removed and the site will be entirely regraded uh for the new project. Uh we
do propose removing the sidewalk on Bloomfield Avenue will be replaced as part of the uh the new construction and be built in accordance with the standards that are being uh promagated for uh sidewalks and
speaking to the new development uh briefly if you can testify to the bulk standard. >> Okay. So we have uh a totally conforming uh application in the zone with the exception of the the one design waiver. Uh this is the zone table that's in the
plan and you can see that it meets lot area density width. All the setbacks are met for all the buildings. The impervious coverage is met. Uh the building heights are met. Parking is met. We have 63 parking spaces proposed
uh on uh on the project on site. And uh we also have three on the street. Uh with regard to uh the the parking, we have what is going to be nine EV parking stations. Uh we are required to have 15%
total eventually, 5% currently uh built and the rest has been ready. But we are going to uh we had proposed seven in our plans. We're going to change that to nine based on comments from the planner and uh build those with the original
build and only have two as made ready. Three of the spaces that we have are ADA spaces. We've made them all uh van accessible spaces with an 8ft access aisle between them. And uh the one waiver that is associated with this
application is the sideyard buffer on the eastern side where it's 11.5 ft. the 15 ft is required. Um the I'll go over why in the next one the next slides
>> just on the easel and also on the screen is is a rendition of the proposed building. You can see the the building very attractive brick building. You can see the uh the stone the loose laid stone wall which is the same type of wall that
we have out there today. uh but it is in a slightly different location uh just reconstructed similar of similar height. You also can see in this uh this the sign that's on the corner the Hillrest Farm sign which is also going
to be moved back slightly. So it's total conformance and it's 21 square ft of area which is conforming and it'll be set back 5 ft. Uh the next exhibit is the site plan exhibit. Um, it as we mentioned is a four-story
mixed use building with 4,50 ft of commercial space on the first floor, relatively small, and 33 residences above. We are proposing to build a new sidewalk on Bluefield Avenue. We also will be building a sidewalk on the first
portion of Park Avenue from the corner from the existing ADA ramp down to just past the proposed driveway. uh that will complete the circulation pattern uh through that area. Right now, there's no sidewalk for that first section of Park Avenue. Um
the sidewalk that's going to be on Bloomfield Avenue will lead to the new standard that was mentioned to us in the technical review committee meeting. We just need the details of that to add to the plan. Uh the we propose one uh driveway to Bloomfield Avenue. Uh it
would be a right turn out, no entrance. Uh so that would be a safer traffic circumstance because there wouldn't be someone uh turning left and crossing the roadway. Um one of the re the reason that we need
the relief for the uh landscape buffer on that area 11.5 versus 15 is the requirement and the ordinance of a sight triangle having the sight triangle on that plan. I don't know zoom in on that.
There's a little triangle there which is uh the ordinance requirement. You're not allowed to have vertical elements in that triangle. In order to do that, I had to slide a driveway slightly to the left approximately uh four uh 3 and 1/2 ft. So, uh that you know that that's why
we are requesting that. Now, in terms of that particular relief, it is only for that small driveway area there. The rest of the site has 15 foot of buffer around it minimum meeting the minimum requirement. Also in that area you have
uh the driveway to the neighboring property right there to uh so where it's not like where buffer is up against the building. Uh there's a little bit of buffer on the neighboring property which is their driveway. And well, just on that note, uh sorry if
I'm jumping ahead, but there was a a fence that was going to be repurposed in this area and now the applicant is going to propose to do board on board fencing at uh board on board at 6' tall. Is that correct? >> Right. We were not noted that we should move the fence onto our property. So we
called for on our plans movement of the existing chain link fence but that is brought to our attention and that it should be a board on board fence and we will be removing the existing and using a board on board fence instead. >> So in addition to the landscaping that's proposed there we will also have more shielding of any light or glare to the
to the neighboring with that fencing. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> So the project itself has excellent pedestrian and ad and ADA circulation. the uh after you're on the come off the sidewalk on Bloomfield Avenue, the
entire uh lower area, the uh patio around the uh the building, the commercial area of the building is all accessible. The sidewalks around the back of the building are accessible. The parking for commercial will be uh signed
uh during uh business hours. uh some of the spaces behind the building for commercial and the access will be through the back of the building unless you want to walk around to the front. And um so there's excellent circulation. We also have u a crosswalk that goes
from the building over to the garden area uh where Pat will have some display. Also has a dual purpose where the residents can actually use this area uh to enjoy the green green space. There's going to be some park benches, some waste receptacles, and I believe I
have one uh you know, dog uh dog bag um uh >> waste dog waste kiosk or whatever you want to call it in there for people who want to uh you know, who forgot theirs upstairs. Uh so we have that. Um so then
uh the next thing we have is the parking under the building uh and and just outside the building in the light gray is the area where it's outside the building. The uh the light green is the uh not building but parking under the building and all those parking spaces
are of the required size uh 9 by8. Uh, as I mentioned before, the ADA is an accessible 8 foot wide space with 8 foot wide access aisle. Uh, we have uh also
parking for bicycles. We have a bike parking outside uh near the back of that uh patio area. We also have indoor uh bike storage for for the residents. I was just on the behavior of uh parking.
There was a comment in one of the review letters to identify the commercial spaces. Um and there will be signage for those commercial spaces. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> And the spaces will be spaces 1 through 8 and then 46 through 52 which are on
site and then spaces 64 to 66 which are on street. Is that correct? >> That is correct. And has there been any communications to your awareness with the county with respect to signing those three spaces particularly for this development site? >> I don't know the outcome, but Pat has
been in conversation with them to have them uh dedicated to the site. So, >> and I can tell you that there have been good communications with the county and they are willing to um sign those three spaces for use by this particular development.
We have one loading space uh with the commercial uses the size that we have. We don't feel we need a tractor trailer space. We designated one as a daily uh loading space which is uh read space
40 43. it it's right >> 45 >> 45 and and it's right next to the access walk to the to the garden area that gives access uh easy access to the commercial space. Uh the way we view it
is uh the users that are going to be in these spaces which such small spaces will have deliveries probably in their own vehicle uh picking up things but maybe in a streeter van which could park in a regular space. And and with respect to the the deliveries that there were discussions
with the applicant related to the retail nursery that there would be approximately um two deliveries a week by by van a sprinter van or a box truck. Is that accurate? >> That is correct. >> And with respect to the two smaller commercial spaces they're 1500 feet or
less that we would anticipate although then user is not known given the size of those spaces that there would only be two to three uh sprinter van type deliveries. Is that >> that's that's what we theorize. Yeah. That the depending on the use being small users, if it's, you know, any of
the permitted uses, you know, would uh not require significant deliveries. Uh there are uh the ability uh to use the uh spaces on the street for deliveries. Uh but they would have to be scheduled with the management of the
building. So, for example, if somebody's moving into an apartment or moving out of an apartment and they have a a bigger truck, they could park out there provided they coordinated that with the building. It wouldn't be without without that coordination.
And it wouldn't be that frequent. Hopefully, people move in in a safer one. >> Garbage and recycling. >> Uh the garbage and recycling is a is has a is a program that you probably uh haven't seen before. There is a trash building uh trash room in the building
where uh garbage and recycling will will be kept. Uh staff from the building will take uh totes, 96gallon totes on wheels that they will bring out to the uh what would be normally a dumpster area. It's uh going to be uh brick uh enclosed
dumpster area and uh without a dumpster. and they'll bring roll these totes in and then roll an empty one from the storage area back to the building uh to collect additional garbage in in the following days. We anticipate pickup of the garbage approximately two to three
times a week. It's a private hauler. uh they have uh a smaller truck that is able to get through the building without any problem. And I believe the traffic engineer has provided uh you know turning templates that show that that truck can actually uh navigate through
the building. Uh during garbage day, they would drive to where the dumpster area is. They would unload the totes into the truck and push the totes back into the dumpster enclosure. And as far as hours of pickup, there was a comment that the pickup times would need to be before 7 a.m. and we can accommodate
that. >> Yes, we can. >> And uh going back to the trash rooms, I believe there's trash rooms on every floor of the building. And on the first floor, there's also a compactor is I I know you're not the architect, but we did have these discussion that you're >> We did have these discussions. Yes. >> Thank you. >> And the recycling totes, they're they're
covered. So when they're full, they'll be sitting there covered waiting to be picked up or they pulled up. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not uh I if that's necessary it can be >> think about further like >> yeah no I mean if if there's we don't
want any nuisance you know with so if there's a vermin problem we definitely recover it uh the next on my list is uh snow removal but there's questions about snow removal this being a fairly compact site with snow removal will be interesting
some areas maybe cloud. Uh, but a lot of this will be hand work and Pat has solicited a proposal from the local contractor to actually do the work. I'm sure he can do it with hand work. Uh, the storage of the snow will be shoveled
to the green areas at the perimeter of of the site. And if it is a significant storm has to be carted away, being carted away snow. What's in what's uh important to understand here is that there's a large amount of roof area here where the snow is not going to come down
and there's just the gray area that you see on this plan that is areas that need to be uh shoveled and cleared. So it's it's not uh same as a normal site development. Um
and that's that's it. We have uh lighting for the project. Um it it cuts off very well at the property lines. Uh to the uh south it's I believe zero at the property line. To the uh uh to the west it's zero at the property
line on the Bloomfield Avenue. There's some spill into the street which is uh probably not good for people walking on the sidewalk. Uh and then there's a point4T candle maximum on the east down on the eastern side which we
can try to reduce further. They are there is house side shields associated with uh the lighting and we can look at doing more. Primarily they're underseiling lights where the building is. We have six polemounted lights outside that. Um, we do have some
ballard lights that go along the pathway in the garden and also around the end uh of the building where the trellis is to uh light light the pathway and and there's decorative lights on the front of the building and on the east side of the building uh that provides some light
for the doorway. >> And then the lights will be dark dark sky compliant. >> They are dark sky compliant. Uh I think there was a comment one of the review letters to bring um the foot candles down at the eastern property line to to
zero. Is that that can be accomplished? >> Yes, it is. We will find a way to do that. >> Uh there was also a question with respect to the uh lighting within the parking area. That could posose a limit of dust till dawn. >> Uh yes, dust till dawn. There would be
no turning off at night. Uh we feel strongly that it's a security issue when you're in a garage area. uh that you should have adequate lighting uh throughout throughout the evening. >> And given the vegetation that's going to be planted in those buffer areas along with the fencing, do you send any see
any issues uh related to site lighting interfering with or uh being an annoyance to adjacent properties? >> No, the the lighting analysis we do does not take into account fences or landscaping. So it's a worst case and there's significant landscape plan that the architecture firm has has prepared
for this project will which will only uh make the impact less towards the joinery. >> Okay. Uh if we can then move into uh storm water and storm water management. >> Let me just go over utilities in general.
>> So uh we have a sanitary sewer connection for this property that goes to Park Street. We did an analysis of the sanitary system at Park Street and it's more than adequate to convey the flow from this new development. Uh a treatment works approval will be
required because of the gallantage. We process that with the town. Um the water connection for the property will also be to Park Street both fire and domestic. Uh there should be no problem with uh serving the building. The the flow test
for this showed a pressure of over 105 PSI and plenty of flow. So I don't anticipate any problems with uh water supply for for this building. And the storm water system itself is uh seen on this drawing. Um the the main detention
system seen on this drawing is a new shaver that goes down both sides of the building and across the back. Uh we've designed it to be compliant with uh the ordinance. we believe meets the flow requirements for the 2000 for the current and and the future design
storms. Uh it has uh porous pavement to meet the water quality requirement which is 80% removal of suspended solids which is noted in the ordinance as well as in the DP literature as being an approved way to meet the water quality
requirement and recharge is not required based on the ordinance. Uh there's an ordinance uh provision that indicates that developed sites are exempt from storm water recharge similar to other uh places where uh development
and PA1 areas are do not require storm water recharge. We did try to get uh storm water management with recharge here. We had a problem with mounding mostly because of and that's to the property to
the uh to the uh south it is significantly lower and even though our test pits were 16 ft deep soils were good uh if you compare the elevations mounding would be up against the foundations of those buildings. So we have designed a system because it wasn't
required without it and uh to avoid the impact to the neighbor property. Um, we received a letter, a review letter from the Environmental Commission and reading between the lines and not in the lines. They would prefer to have some type of
storm water uh recharge. And we're willing to look at that and see if we can find something to mount uh as long as the mounding is not impacting the neighbor. And that would have to be about 70 ft from that property line.
So uh but I think what I would suggest is uh if we as we if we are able to get your approval I would like to work with the board's storm order engineer and go over concepts and then come up with a
plan that does that if that's what the board's favor is. Um and um you've had an opportunity to also review the Boswell uh review letter dated March 11th, 2020 2026. And do you
have any um issues with compliance with the comments within that letter? >> I do not. >> Thank you. Which date were you just citing? >> March 11th. I think we should do a brief run through of the engineers
questions especially I mean they worked very hard on their on addressing the issues many of which were complied with already. >> Yep. >> But the ones that are still up in the air we have to um address those. Um and and if you're not done with your
testimony please continue. I just wanted to say that because you you had just landed on that. >> Yes. And I think we were concluding our testimony so we can go through them and well if you don't have them marked I think I I marked the ones that we have not um that were not marked as compliant
yet highlighted >> highlighted one. Okay. Uh the first one is number 11. Under the plot plan, the applicant shall pro provide testimony regarding the days and hours of operation for the retail uh
retail spaces, the number of employees and uh and so and so forth. The uh peak hour shift numbers, we don't have tenants, so we don't really know except for pets. >> Yeah. And that that will be 9 9 to5. The other two tenant spaces, they have not
been identified yet, but it would be in compliance with I know Verona has a code related to hours of operation for commercial uses and it those tenants obviously would be in compliance with that. >> Um I have a question. So regarding the tenants, I know that there's no tenants in the building yet, but would you
happen to know if it's going to be like a restaurant use with outdoor seating? like are you expecting to have a use like that? The reason I asked that is because our traffic expert did his review and his his review said that if it's there's a restaurant, it might
affect the trip generation numbers. That's the reason why. >> Yeah, there is a potential I mean that is a permanent use within the district uh within this redevelopment plan. There is some area for outdoor seating. However, it's not a large area. So I
don't believe although obviously we don't have a tenant identified that there would be much outdoor seating space at all. It was just a few tables. >> Next one. >> So jumping to 14. No, thank you.
>> Um, it asks that the question asks, uh, are both residential retail uses going to be inclusive included in that dumpster? >> Yes, they are >> in that dumpster area. >> You can take over. >> Okay, I can
>> go for it. >> Um, all right. So, you said yes. And do you know if the if they're being used both by residential and retail? Are they etiquette in size for both? >> They are. So we we have a private hauler who was indicated they would pick up 5
days a week if needed. So uh but we think right now it's two to three. That's what we would start with and if the need uh occurred where we had to have it picked up more often, we would have it picked up more often. Um I know you guys are going to use a
private um service for the garbage pickup. >> Yeah. >> The location of the If you could talk a little bit about the location of the dumpster enclosure. It is at a weird like usually the door is at like a right angle, but this one the truck is going to have to come in and be at an angle.
>> Would that affect the traffic flow? If you could provide a little bit testimony. the the system of pickup is unique, but also the dumpster enclosure is somewhat too. I I envision a a door, two small doors opening in and the and the uh
totes being parked behind it and then just pulled shut. That way they wouldn't impact the parking spaces on either side. >> The garbage truck being parked in right in front of that um area, would that affect the cars coming in and out? if
they were coming in and out at 6:30. Yes. It'll be there for like 3 minutes to pick up the garbage and then they're going to be gone. >> And um could you talk about the fire truck circulation and like operation? How would that work? >> I don't so I I don't see the fire truck
coming onto the site. It's not intended to be to be it's not designed to be coming on site. Um I think the uh it'll be fought from the street and uh the important thing will be to coordinate the fire department connection things like that is indicated in the fire chief's memo.
>> Right. I was looking at the memo today. I think um it was responded to um the question from the fire chief who responded to there's just one um I think if you could like provide clarification on something the fire department connection they said it's going to be on
the west side of the building and that's going to be the fire truck. How would the fire truck connect to that fire department connection? How would that operation work? >> They connect to it with a hose. My understanding >> and it will be long enough to connect all the way.
>> Yeah. Yeah, if we need a sandpipe to run out to the street, we could do that, too. So, I think that's more of a coordination with the fire chief as to how he would fight a fire in his building. And uh >> but you don't expect the fire truck coming onto the property.
>> I do not. I do not. >> And that there is this is a corner lot with Park Avenue and Bloomfield Avenue and then I guess the property also to the east. Uh there's a driveway there too. If if there was a need to fight a fire from three sides of the building, you can >> they Yes, they do have access from three
sides in an emergency. >> And and talking about that, have you had a chance to calculate the fire load for the project? >> I I haven't that's the mechanical engineer would do that in terms of uh you know based on sprinkler design. So I
don't I don't know what that number is yet. >> Okay. >> But the the pressure and flow in the street was significant. So I don't anticipate a problem. Yeah, that's that's exactly the I'm going that way because you know it's so so you know so they they run a hydro test. So with the
they basically the hyper test gives three values the static pressure the residual pressure and the flow rate. So with that you calculate what is the flow available at 20 PSI which is the minimum pressure required at ground level. So if
that flow is larger than the regular water demand plus the fireflow then it's okay. So I mean one hydrogen test doing the calculation for the flow um available for at 20 PSI one is is going
to be uh 6430 gpm and the other one will be 4764 gpm which is is pretty high but >> really high. Yeah, but it would be great to have the estimation of the fire for
your project just for the sake of having it and double check. >> Yeah, it normally is a uh a building department uh thing from bas but based on just so you're understand 6,400 uh gallons per minute is
>> yeah it's probably many times more than what's going to be needed. probably just >> probably going to be like 1500 numbers. >> And Paul to alleviate the board's concerns in in the event that the board were inclined to grant the application, could it be as a condition of approval that we would coordinate with the fire
official and provide that figure to him and he would sign off on it before any building permit would be issued? >> Yeah. And it' be part of the mechanical design. Yes, that's that's fine. >> Good. Thanks. But, you know, whether I I just want to say whether it's the building department's job or our
engineer who's overseeing, you know, the the engineering of the site, >> you know, we're not going to assign roles. We're just going to let him ask the question and and make the um >> Oh, I I I don't mind the question. >> Make the request. So, >> Madam Chairman, I don't mind the question. He can ask.
>> Okay, >> that's fine. >> Great. >> I'll just continue on. Um, so if you could talk a little bit about the loading space that's proposed. I know it was moved outside the B the building overhead. >> Yes, >> it is a typical 9 ft by 18 ft space, but
there is like a larger like UPS. Would that do you see that being a problem being parked in that 9 ft by 18t space? >> No, I don't I don't know that they would do anything other than what UPS normally does is park on the side of the curb and
and run in. >> Oh, like outside on the street. >> Yeah. Or Yeah. or or if they they can make they can go into the parking garage and park behind the parked cars and run in, but we have no way to control how they deliver. Um,
so I think you had uh described or maybe you had described how um twice a week a box truck or a van was going to be delivering the flowers that I intend to be buying. So, I just want to make sure
that they have a place to unload. Is there anywhere on the site besides the this truck out front? >> Well, obviously this is a good big concern for the applicant as well since their business is going to be in there. Um, and they they are going to they're satisfied that this space is sufficient
within the underneath the building. Um, but in the event that you need to, there are also those three parking spaces in the front that is is for them, >> right? There's there's no loading space is the is the >> there's no dedicated loading space. That's that's correct. But um
to a certain extent there's the ability of the building management to control those three spaces since they will be dedicated for this project. >> Understood. >> And if you you've said this, forgive me, but the trucks that the owners are going to use for the deliveries for their business are is it their trucks or these
>> deliveries? >> Just deliveries. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So it could be raisins, >> could be unanticipated sides. >> Didn't we say earlier that number 45 was a loading space? >> Yes. >> Okay. So it is there. You do have a loading space. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> But it's not oversized. >> Correct. >> It's the size of a regular parking. But >> but I I had a question about that too. Um cuz you did submit the the turning movements for different vehicles, but
none making that sharp turn into that space. You know, if if a box truck is loading there, like can it can it make that turn or you have a situation where it's just walking? I mean it's almost like 183 unless it
relates to the through the parking area. >> So our traffic engineer prepared that turning template so we can call him to address that. >> Thank you. >> I have a question. So um for the
um nursery of ground use I remember when I've gone on site for the red investigations there were large trucks there. Um will that change now or >> yes they're going to be parked off site um and obviously their operation is
going to be changing given um what is happening to the property. Okay. Um, I do have some traffic questions, but I should save them for the traffic expert, right? >> Yeah, go plug in that. Okay, perfect. Um, I'll just move to the wall. Um,
could you talk about the wall? Um, I believe there's a variance that's required for the wall cuz it's uh, it exceeds 4T more. It's more than 4 ft in height. So, I have that area graded in what I feel is a very nice way, but since there's a variance for 6 in, I'm
going to find a way to eliminate the 6 in variance. >> So, you'll get a resubmitt without a variance required in that uh back corner. >> Okay. In regard to that, >> you're going to have walls in the back
as well. and then the board on board fence that you switched over to from the chain link. My question is where in the landscape buffer is that board where within that landscape buffer is the
board on board going to be placed? Is it going to split it so that you only see half of the plantings and then there's a board on board fence and behind it there are more plantings. How is that going to work? H good question. Normally I would
put it right behind the block on the wall and the landscaping would be inside of it, but that doesn't do much for the buffer. So I think we'd probably give that a little bit more thought. >> So we don't know how that's going to be configured. And and that would be on on
both the uh the east side and the south side. that that's really the only buffer requirement that there is even though there's >> gardens on the s on the uh west side as well. >> Yeah, we do have a a more transparent
railing on the wall on the uh on the other side just because of its height. you know it something is just a railing so people don't it could be done with plant the plants itself but you know I think building code is going to make us
have a a like a small railing there but you're right it doesn't require the uh it doesn't require to be a board on board you know for for buffering >> well I'm just I'm just concerned that you're going to cut off >> I I I hear what you're saying like it
doesn't do much for the neighboring property if you put a fence behind Yeah. >> Um at the same time, um it kind of screws up everything and your maintenance of those plants will be cut off if there's a board on board fence in
between you and your watering device and your access to those plants. >> Mhm. >> So I I think that really needs to be discussed with with your client >> um so we can figure that one out.
We we could talk about it, but I'm just asking. I'm It can be placed um close closer to the property line. So, all the buffering is on the >> back of the buffer. >> Correct. >> Towards the adjacent property. >> Yeah. >> I mean,
I think it I think it needs to be so that you can maintain the buffer. >> That you're correct about that. >> Yes. Yeah, the >> the requirement uh is that the only requirement is that the uh visual visual screen I'll just read it.
Such buffer shall include a visual screen designed to produce dense cover. Um the side happens all the time. consisting of evergreen or evergreen type hedges or shrubs spaced at intervals of not more than five feet located and maintained in
good condition within 10 ft of the property line and then a 6ft high privacy fence should be provided along with the plantings. So it's really >> it could be behind it >> it could be on the on you know whatever
five five in six inches in from the border. >> Yeah, correct. >> Right. I mean, I think that's the requirement. >> So, are you requesting that they go beyond that that they agree to a if approved that they agree to a condition
even though it complies? >> What What condition do you think I want? >> Well, you want it closer to the property line, right? Is that what you're saying? >> I I do I think that that would be the the sage thing to do. Um the only other
issue is because there's a wall and then the fence will be on the wall that extends the height of the wall. >> Yes. >> So that creates another can of worms is the point. >> Turn around the west side or the
>> um on either the south or the west side because I think there's a wall on both. And so when you put a fence on a wall, you are creating a structure that is no no longer 6 ft but 6 plus 4. Now, if
that's acceptable to the board from a conceptual standpoint and a design standpoint, then you certainly can grant a waiver, especially in light of the fact that the buffer language that you're asking the the applicant to
to set up the buffer in a certain manner that they're not required under the ordinance. >> Right. >> And because of that, then there's a, you know, quid proquo. >> Yeah. And to the extent that that is the inclination of the board, you know, we are happy to request that variance and I think for the reasons that the chair
stated, it makes sense for the maintenance and health of the the plants and the the buffering. So for those reasons, um would you agree with Paul that the design waiver could be granted? >> Yes. Um would I mean I I kind of just want to hear
anybody that might be opposed to that or that has any other further input before we move forward. I mean before we continue >> I guess I'm just thinking about the neighbors. So they're looking out >> at a fence
>> at a like a structure, right? Wall >> the wall and then the fence on top. So, I wouldn't be if I was the neighbor, I wouldn't be happy >> to cross a driveway, though. >> Well, that's on one property. >> Okay. To the rear though, it's the
apartments. There's a walkway. I mean, I I I kind of agree with Dave that >> on the back end >> on the back end. I don't like the idea of feds being right on that wall. >> And I mean, I think it's something the applicant can can work out in terms of
maintaining the plantings on the other side of the wall. Yeah, the law, the ordinance doesn't have eyes. You know, it's not going to look at this every day. It's just something we have here. I'd rather give the waiver and let the design, you know, through plantings or others uh ways
being, you know, amendable with with the waiver rather than jump through hoops to match the the laws, you know, whatever like fence things like fence on a wall. Well, play let let it be designed well
and we can decide whether or not >> so I'm not sure where you stand. >> I'm not standing on on the design should drive it that works well for the property. >> The waiver would be if they move the fence all the way to the property line. So you have the retaining wall plus a
fence on top like directly on top. So that you have just >> what's the height of that retaining wall? >> Yes. >> Uh if we look at this property now >> Yeah. the if we're looking at the south side, there's a retaining wall there already that's about 6 ft high. Uh and
it's a nice retaining wall to look at. So they've been looking at this with >> it is >> with shrubbery on top of it already. >> Uh so that side elevator, Mr. Anderson, the elevation's not changing that much, is it? >> Correct. We have a small wall behind it.
>> Okay. So you put another wall behind the wall that's existing. >> Yes. About 5t back. >> Okay. So 5t back. So that doesn't add to the height of that wall. So looking at it now, people on that ground floor or even the first floor aren't going to see much of a difference unless they're
looking all the way up at the four stories. Uh going through the east side, if that wall over there is 6T, there's going to be a 6ft fence on the property line. So when they're looking out, they're not going to see the wall. They're going to see the the new fence that's going up. only.
>> So, can I >> on the on the east side there there's no no wall in the rear and maybe up for a suggestion hearing the comments. There's a 6ft wall in the back already. Can we get a variance to not place a fixt board on board fence there because you have
the wall and then you're going to have all the evergreen plantings as well. >> May I as a person who wrote this? Um I would I would uh suggest to the board that um on the south side I remember going outside and I think
deputy may right if you look at it even today there's a nice retaining wall and tall evergreen it already provides the buffer when we write this language we're trying to protect to the maximum extent so any kind of waiver along that side is
completely reasonable when you look at the eastern property line there's a driveway uh along the uh that's where my int uh intent was that's where we need that board on board fence because that's how you get that you know that uh sort
of buffer because presently that side it's uh pretty unattractive you know so so what I would suggest if you um that to grant the waiver along the southern property lines we just had it all um
and the retaining wall if I recall from last year was in pretty good condition. So I don't think it has changed much and if the elevation hasn't changed I think I would recommend that you grant the waiver um just >> you're saying no fence in
>> no fence how does anybody feel about >> that's what I wanted to say thank you sir what has there been any prior complaints about >> and actually We should going to be doing more flush.
I can't I can't have the public speak yet. I'll I'll bring you up after he's done. >> Um >> I have >> Okay, we'll bring you up and >> when he's done with his testimony. >> Um
so I mean it sounds reasonable to go that way and just do the board on board fence on the on the east side. Is that >> okay? >> Yeah. A lot of Um, continue please.
>> That's all. I went through the whole letter. I do have traffic um questions and some questions for the architect that um I'm going to um ask Alvaro
to to um go through your step. >> Yeah. >> And then we'll come around to all of the questions we have and then open to the public.
I you're not showing us any other site plans. I Okay. So, it's going to be from 43 to 57. So um 43 is regarding the the depth at
which the I'm sorry is is going to be um that you need to provide um certification letter for the um polish payment that you're proposing that is going to be um is
going to have over a 6 in per hour uh This is only going to be used for water quality and 20 in per hour if it's going to be used for both water quality and quantity, >> right? Those are the standards. Uh we would use 6.4 because it's only water
quality. >> And in terms of the certification, I'm not sure. It's not a manufactured device, but you're talking about a certification from the plant we get the asphalt from. >> Yes. I mean, some kind of of of evidence that you're going to achieve that's the infiltration.
>> Okay. So um number four is um I think that we asked that previous meeting and it was about which uh unit hydrograph you used when modeling
>> it's SCES >> the the standard or the Marva >> it's a standard SC >> yes >> so in your report it did not just say standard It it said something else which
is in the BEC's question. Um it looked like a hybrid that like a creation of your own. >> It's not it's not something I created. It's right out of the the software program. It's for New Jersey. It's it you might have seen the rainfall distribution type I think is a type
three hydroraph and it had a different title. Didn't just say standard. >> I'll look up here real quick. Hold on. Okay. All right. All right. My
Yeah, I cited it in um the DEC's review and now I'm like not locating it. So >> somewhere in the uh documents that you must have amongst your pile of documents. >> Well, if if uh Alvaro thinks that
whatever we use makes a difference, we should change it. We would be happy to to look at that. I don't think it'd be a significant change >> so long as it's just a pure standard. >> It's something right out of the software which is compliant with the new uh national engineers handbook. So, uh I
mean I don't think it's the ordinary certainly not something I modified. >> Yeah. The reason why we're asking is that because the the the picking factor of of the two the typ the the typical um uni hydrograph that you is the standard
that has a picking factor of 484 >> and the other one is called the del Marva has a picking factor of 284 if I'm not mistaken. Basically the hydrograph they have the same volume but the only difference is it is it dep that's that's
the question that's why >> we need to know what type of unit we use >> yeah it's the standard standard and I use the the Essex County rainfall data and the what we're supposed to do and uh with for both the current and future
storms. >> Yeah. So because unfortunately this model it um unlike the others that for example say hydrog or swim they show in the report which uni hydrograph is being used. It says clearly the
>> yeah I use hydro >> and so it should be in there. >> Can you >> I think that's what the chairman has found. >> If if necessary can you provide that to >> board engineer? Yeah, there's that one. Yeah, it says
it. It's just that it said um SCS split impervious split pous impervious and I just >> Yeah. Well, that that that's was one of the other questions that it was standard. You want the the pvious and impervious run separately. >> Yeah.
>> So, I I had hydropad separate the impervious impervious as as was requested, which is fairly standard. And uh that's that's what that means. >> So the SCES is standard what? CAD system. >> It's a hierarch.
>> I know I I know I'm just trying to get what SCES actually stands for. >> What's the acronym for? >> Yeah, it's a conservation service. That's was the old name of the entity. Now it's called National Resource and Conservation Service. >> So your report doesn't really say
standard that you're running a standard um hydrograph. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't >> Yeah, it doesn't say. >> No, it it indicates I use that that methodology in the front, but it doesn't say spec specific hydroraph. And I've actually never even modified these
hydroraphs. I just use the ones that are appropriate for this area. >> Yeah. you know. So to solve this issue then could you provide me with the um uh with the file the hydrical file of the model so I can open up in my computer
and then check all the >> So now I believe that Albero asked for that during the site plan review meeting. >> Yes he did. >> Okay. >> I was there enough to have witnessed that one that much. So >> well that that no problem.
>> So if that could be sent to him as soon as possible so that he could just double check everything. >> Um also can this be emailed to Dee and so that it can be distributed to everybody? >> Yes and actually um thank you for
pointing that out. It we can mark the whole package the PowerPoint presentation the civil engineer as A1 and I will email it tomorrow morning. continuously. Yeah. So, um number 45 is is going to be the adjustment of the um
inlet area map, the drainage area. So, just to be more specific as to um each inlet has to be provided a um a catching area. So, currently it is not. So, >> it's listed in the calculations but not
on the map. We will add this to the map also. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the older one number 46 is going to be um is going to be the the LI checklist that has to be revised and adjusted accordingly.
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I'll get into that with you. >> What are you laughing at? >> Okay. Said number 47. We already addressed that about the right. Yeah, we address that. Uh number 48 is is about
the the length to be used for um the calculation of the time and concentration in regard to the seat flow. >> It has to be a maximum of 100 ft. >> Okay. You I used the moli spies formula and and it indicated that it could be
more much more than 100 ft. >> Okay. >> So what I did is I looked at the plan and uh it was an existing just like 104 feet. I picked because um that's where it started to show uh contours that
looked like it was flowing more as a concentrated flow. >> All right, good. >> So I I so even though I could have made it 170 ft, it wasn't physically that in the field. So I so I I didn't change it uh under 100. >> Perfectly fine. Yes.
So the number 49 um it's it's already addressed the capacity of the pipe is is is large enough to accommodate the estimated flow unit. No problem with that. Number 50
um is the um the section of the forest payment um shall be right to show the 50 fabric among the sides and the bottom of the system. >> Yeah, we just missed that. Sorry. >> So number 51
it's about the depth uh for the soil testing. >> Mhm. >> Um so it has to be at the um feet because this has to be because of because at the bottom of of the structure that you're proposing. So, so,
um, we have a I went through the math on that. The existing grade is about 408 where that test was done. It's 12 ft down. And, uh, and then the bottom, so that gets you like to 396. Um, and and there was no groundwater at
396. And, uh, then bottom of our system is at uh, 4 uh, 402. So, that I believe that provides the separation you're looking for. So you said the bottom we said is at what the elevation
>> the so existing grade was um I believe 408 and we're 12 ft down >> so it's 98 actually so and then it's 402 is the bottom system so it's 4 ft >> that's ft that's good >> and it's not it's not recharge either.
So I mean I don't know the separation for not recharging at that point. >> Well, what you just said is you found no groundwork. >> Not not in that bit. No. >> Right. >> Um so >> my concern is that
>> you could be doing some recharge >> and and obviously you could use perforated pipe to be eating off site to flow into the Park Avenue system. And if it by chance
can't be recharged at that time or it's o already super saturated, it'll flow off site as planned, but at least you're giving an opportunity if you use perforated pipe for some recharge to occur. You have
solid pipe running out of this system. And I I just think you know bottom perforated especially with the soil results that you got you have some sand some lom um and it it appears not a lot of modeling so
>> okay so that tends to say that you don't have saturation of water in those areas >> not in not in our test put areas though. So, you do a groundwater mounting analysis from where do you find, you know, how how far is it mounting above groundwater? I can't say that there's no
groundwater. And I don't know where it is cuz I never found it. Okay? So, I have to assume it's the bottom of the test pit. When you assume it's the bottom of the test pit and you see how it mounds up, it impacts and come and daylights to the apartment to the south. Okay? And and
that creates a drainage problem. The width of that bounding is about 65 or 70 ft. And what I was saying to you before is if we keep the recharge element of that system 70 ft away from that back
property line, then the mounding will have taken effect and gone down. The soils are fairly consistent as you pointed out. They're they're very grally and porous. It'd be you know it it is almost ideally suited for that. But if I
brought this design that showed uh a recharge system uh to the board and I showed them my groundwater mounting analysis, Alaro would say this does not work. You can't do this. So I I I want to find that's why I was saying if we
can find somewhere in between >> where we provide where we provide Yes. >> I feel like you need to take advantage of the site's conditions >> and we would like to do that. it it's just it's it's not an easy thing to model necessarily, but uh with you know
the back part recharging and the front part not. But I think that we could work together and come up with something if that's uh if the board's so inclined to do that. >> And and this would be something you you indicated earlier you would agree to. >> Yeah, this is something that I I
proposed in my direct testimony. Yeah. That that I think that there might be an opportunity to do this uh because there are good soil conditions for it. It just has to be far enough away from that lower property in the back >> so it doesn't create a negative impact to to the neighbors.
>> I don't know if that satisfies you, Jeff. That that that works for me. If they're I just if they're going to be required to bring a concept out or to see what we can do. >> Yes. I I want that to be
I guess worked out and discussed and you know feasibility of design options for that if possible you know >> I mean that that's the whole point of green infrastructure
you know to do that on site to save the municipal system from overflow on a regular basis. So >> I still >> Okay. I'm sorry Alber. >> It's okay. So the two
is um um the the calculation of the uh flow velocity within the pipes has to be provided >> right >> there. >> Yeah. Number 53 is regarding
um the storm water management system maintenance plan to be reflected in the deep notice. That's standard. >> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah. So four um you have to provide the drain
time calculations for the structure that going to be designing. Number 55. Um this you need to provide a note to um on G
SP3 including the the maintenance uh manual. >> Okay. Number 56 is that uh you need to um there's a discrepancy between the elevation of the
15inch pipe in one one hand is 402 and the other hand is 403. >> Yeah, >> you have to check that discrepancy if you can adjust it accordingly. And you has to um number 57 the final um
need to um evaluate and check that the all the structure at one% slope provide the average the capacity in big enough to accommodate the current and the future storm events. >> Okay. So on on the last one that that
would be uh pressure flow. So it's not going to be as gravity flow through that 15inch pipe. But but if you look at a 15 at 1% it is going to have uh about uh 8 and 1/2 CFS and I think our peak total is less than that. >> You say 8 and a half
>> I I Yeah. Do you want to do the water supply or is that >> Yeah, I Yeah, I already I already went through the the the only question I had it was regarding the the hydrogen test and the and the flow calculation >> and that that was something that you're
going to work on him with. >> Yeah. >> And how about the sanitary sewer questions? Oh yeah, the sanitary sewer. All >> good. >> Yeah, all good. Um, I'm going to come over to the board and and go around
to, you know, you don't have to go in order, but if somebody has a question, please speak up. >> Anybody has a question? Did you ask me? >> We have an engineer over here to ask some questions. >> I have some questions.
>> Um, so in your um you have a storm water connection to the existing catch basin on park at uh did you inspect the existing condition of that catch basin? >> Uh not thoroughly. I've looked into it
and we got a survey of those elevations. So, we I asked because we have old infrastructure in town and there's a concern that connecting to a catch basin that may be at or near nearing a point of repair, it may need more than just a connection
to an existing catch basin. There might be >> um additional attention necessary for that catch base to make sure that it it is adequate. >> It might be rebuilding the catch base and it falls apart. >> It could be that. Yes. >> Yeah. Well, that that happens uh periodically.
I think the plan should look reflect that. Uh kind of similar note though is the connection to that existing 8in clay clay sewer line. >> Yeah. >> I'm assuming that clay sewer line is probably also pretty aged. Um you have a 6-in line connecting to an 8 in line. Is that by manhole or how is that
connection being made? >> It was just going to be a regular connection to the pipe. But I think probably better now that you're reminding me it's clay that I do it as a manhole. >> Okay. I I I think so as well. I think uh again um as we were talking about
what that trench looks like um where the sanitary sewer line is connecting if we're making a slightly larger excavation in the street for the uh that manhole right near where the water connection is and then you have some
curb uh replacement for that driveway. I'm just concerned about what the pavement repair in the street is going to look like if you're just repairing trenches or I think a more appropriate repair would be to box out the asphalt to make the travelability on Park Avenue
uh a little bit cleaner at the completion of the project just so you don't have a series of trenches in a row. >> Yeah. Why don't we look at it as one as one patch as opposed to multiple trenches? >> I think so. Yeah. >> Yeah. So the sewer and water normally be
10 ft apart. So it'll be at least at least that. And then the curb itself is normally just up against the curbing where we're cutting out the existing and putting the new press curve to the driveway in. So whatever the the limits of the disturbance are. And I I guess as
you're replacing the curb at that the press curve at that driveway entrance, it looks like you're trying to preserve the majority of the curb on Park Avenue. Um, yeah, >> but as you go through construction, I'm just I don't know if if as you start constructing the new sidewalk or as you
have construction equipment coming and going, I don't know what the shape of that curve will look like halfway through construction. Uh, but so the curve that you're trying to preserve on Park Avenue, I'm not sure if it will last the duration. >> Yeah, I can't control what the contractors do. If they want to go in there, uh, you know, somehow or and
destroy it, then they're going to have to replace it. But, uh, right now it's in good shape. we would like to keep it and I don't know that it's necessary for them to damage it in any way, but if something happens um kind of getting away from a couple
utility questions, but as you're circulating through the site, it looks like you've got potential opportunity for a couple stop bars just internally on the site. You just it looks like you've got them at the main driveways as you're leaving the site, but it looks you've got traffic flow coming
underneath the building and then also wrapping around the building. So, you got a couple 23 probably need to try to control the internal traffic on the side. I'm not sure if that's you or your traffic engineer, but um yeah, I I'll have to look and see what I
think is the best alignment. I would probably have the main through uh continue through from the Park Avenue driveway through the leaving on Bloomfield Avenue and then have them stop on the driveway that wraps around the other direction.
>> Yeah, I mean I think there's a few ways of accomplishing that. I think it's worth just making sure you properly address that so you don't have merging traffic from two separate driveways without that control. >> Yep. Okay. Um,
and then I think there's just one note. It's probably just a typographical error, but you've got on the Bloomfield Avenue side, you have um >> what sheet. >> It's on the site plan sheet, I believe. Uh, you were talking about an asphalt
repair on Bloomfield Avenue to meet the township standards. Um, >> yeah, it's going to be county. >> It's county and it it was just repaid. So, I'm not sure if they have, >> you know, what the process is, but just I I think it's it's important to note that coordination with the county on the
roadway repair is important on that code. >> Believe we have a county application that's in. I'm sure they'll be advising us on those conditions. >> Okay. And I appreciate your comment earlier on the sidewalk design and the um you have a note here for reset
existing brick buffer between new sidewalk and new curb. Uh again, we're uh we're entering into a streetscape design for Springfield Avenue. Um it actually stops just before the limits of this project, but I think it's an opportunity to continue the same
standard which we will provide to you. We should have that in short order. So I think the the general standard of the design theme that is selected for Pink Avenue streetscape should be carried through on on this site for Lincoln Avenue as well. >> Okay. Tying together.
>> Yeah. Right. >> I think those are the questions I had right now. Oh, that ties in a little bit of what, you know, looking at this lovely rendering and of course you want to put the best portfolio, but what I don't you know I
wanted to know about street lights and um if I if I recall there's uh I'm not sure exactly where it is but the traffic light structures are here. How does how does this you know lovely corner on the door with those how does that where are
those in this and are they in the site plan they're in the site plan they're shown on the existing conditions uh you know with the survey is the background of my drawing but in the rendering you're right that the artist uh did not put the the stop lights and stuff
they're right there's one right on the corner uh of that wall to the left of the Hillrest farm sign >> okay >> that That wall, the Hill Chris Farms wall is being moved back a few feet, right, >> to create additional space. The sidewalk
there with the I believe is 6 feet wide with the brick or whatever the the detail will be going forward. The other >> and same with this rendering like I don't see the parking spaces. It looks like you know >> Yeah, >> I think your focus was on the building and trying to show
>> I get it. I see through it. But I just want to make sure that there's no um um yeah no concerns on on that front like so in in your opinion uh are there any concerns with some of the structures and the places in this building with you
know existing lights and and traffic structure? >> No, they're all set back from those uh those features in the street. We're not going to need to touch the signalized intersection at all. So we should be good. Um what
what area was the biggest challenge for you on this site plan? >> Uh the the grading the grading on site is is is difficult to get it in the back. It's you have to create it more level to be functional for pedestrians
and for traffic and the and the site slopes and the the neighbors are lower and uh so it's you know it's >> so it's >> you're creating a platform here and the neighbors are lower so it's it's >> it's challenging to find a balance.
>> Yeah. And you feel that this solution protects the has adequate protection for the neighbors that are lower? >> I do. I think it's a good balance of where you know what it could have been and what it you know you know >> what it is today between those two.
>> You um you also said something in in your testimony barely you know uh snow removal is going to be a challenge. Um, >> do you think that's an obstructive challenge or is that just a, you know, they're going to have to figure out, are they going to have to carve it away?
>> No, he he actually has a contract from somebody that's local to actually clear the driveway, including a large amount of manpower to physically just shovel areas that are really not accessible with a plow and using smaller plow vehicles and things like that to achieve
what he needs to achieve. So, you know, >> like just looking at this, like are you going to fill the the dog park with this or like where would you put the snow? >> Yeah, around Yeah. In the winter, they're going to probably uh dump some over the edge of in there short of the
walk and they'll put some to the east side in that buffer, too. >> And you know, that's space that they have available. >> Yeah. >> Might take up some of the parking spaces, too. >> No. >> No. >> No. other people are parked there, they'll be driving out with snow in
their car, you know, they'll brush it off towards the, you know. >> Okay. Um, and along those lines, the challenges, any any challenges you see that you didn't utter in your testimony? >> I don't think so.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah. I just want to know was was there any testing for contaminated soil in the back portion of of the property? I just have the impression that there was a lot of vehicles back there. >> Yeah. >> Potentially oil. I >> I'm not aware of any. I I mean that's
not my part of the job, you know, contaminate testing or anything like that, but um you know, it's something if they have to remove soil from the site, they'll have to have it tested. So, it'll eventually happen. >> One other question on the on the exit
with the right turn only. is that seems like it's perfect purposely designed to be uh tight enough for only one car to go in like you couldn't have >> you don't want somebody coming in. >> No, I do not. I don't think well they might want >> they they might but you know
>> okay but so that is by design right >> correct. >> Yeah. Thank you. Welcome. >> Uh I actually your presentation was very well uh and the attorney asked the questions that I was writing down. So there a lot of them are answered
already. Uh the I'm I'm happy to see uh I was a little unclear about sidewalk on Park Avenue because your yellow new sidewalk stops partway down. But then I looked on the on the map and it's continues
already. So you're just reconnecting to what's there. >> Uh which I I like. It makes it a safer uh walk around. >> The the buffer variance on the one side. >> Uh I'm looking at it. I'm okay with it because I would rather see that a little
smaller and have that small green area next to the walkway on the east side of the building there. Mhm. >> Uh rather than push the driveway all the way over even closer to the building. So, I'm okay with that. Uh questions about uh you you said there's going to
be bike parking area. It's just for regular bicycles outside. There's going to be an ebike room or a bicycle room. Is that just for ebikes? Uh my question is with that, is there obviously we all know the problems with ebikes. Is there fire special fire ratings for those type
of rooms now? Have they changed? Uh >> yeah specific for them. >> I I don't I don't know that that's my my area for the yard. >> The the the ebikes are outside the building. >> Okay. >> Um and >> regular bikes >> regular inside.
>> Okay. I would think that would be something with all the fires we're seeing. Uh some kind of special fire ring for that room if they didn't put them inside. Uh, the other thing I was worried about, and it was already answered, was lighting
spill over on the east side to the neighbors there, but I also think the sixoot fence will help that a lot. Uh, the other uh one thing I was wondering about uh and it was touched on with the
garbage area and and where it is. Is there any did you consider any other area of this where maybe if the if the garbage truck comes in off of park and makes the right turn this maybe the parking spots straight ahead in the back there or even straight
across on the east side uh obviously going under the building but where the exit starts to turn there like what two spots there or would it I know obviously it would maybe take away from parking Is there any other area considered?
>> There's really not a lot of other real usable spaces to do. We try we're trying to maintain the park area on the uh west side, you know, and and have that that usable and large enough and and if we put the dumpster down there, it' be
pretty much where that circle is. He was actually referring to the east side um right before the curve where the drive leaves the >> or the site. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh where the EV spots are. >> Are those EV spots? >> Yeah.
>> Well, we could put the EV spot lab. Just ask. >> Yeah, >> you could you could put them in the back, but it it I don't know. I I thought it was better in the back where it's kind of tucked away from everything else if you I mean you're you have people all around you. So it's like if
you kept the we just thought that was the best location for the back >> and that's where the the residents parking is as well. So I mean I I don't know if that weed into you but that's probably less in and out with the residents as compared to closer to the driveway where there's going to be the
more commercial parking spaces dedicated. >> I mean I agree. I think that EVs should be in the back where you know they're going to be parked longer. I'm charging outside right now. Um versus, you know, take sort of the prime
prime visitor parking spaces that, you know, someone might just park in. Well, we can slide them in the back. My only criteria for the EV was, well, first I need one by, you know, by the uh ADA space, you know, so I need a couple there, but I also wanted to get the rest
of them outside the building. So, and that uh that eastern side is an ideal location for it. Whether we slide them down a little bit towards the back or not is somewhat unimportant really for Yeah.
>> I don't have a question about these fun. Uh no, I'm good. Thank you very much. >> Um I have a couple of questions. Um the last comment, there were a number of comments that I think could have been better addressed
in your testimony on the um your your low impact development checklist. Did you did you fill that out or did you have an assistant fill that out? Be honest. >> You're under a >> I am under and I and I did fill it out myself. low impact development on a site
that permits 80% impervious coverage is kind of >> Yeah, but you >> you know I mean it's >> negated our ordinances entirely. They're like no no no and we're in a PA1 area so green infrastructure doesn't apply. That's not true.
>> We do have green infrastructure. We we we have the poorest pavement water quality. >> You you actually said that you had zero green infrastructure falling in on your site. >> That's why I asked if you had fill that out. Yeah, that's okay. >> Um, and you cited that because we're in
a PA1 zone that no green infrastructure is required, which is false. >> I don't believe I said that, but if I did, that that's an error. >> Yeah, it is. Um, the last comment we have, so I think that's why Alvaro was like, you might want to go kind of
revisit that section and make it uh a little more comprehensive. We actually do have ordinances that require that. Um and the state requires green infrastructure. But um >> we understand that 5 ft of fill will be
placed at the south area of the site in order to balance it out because uh of this it slopes off. >> Um and an overall net filling of about 900 cubic yards, right? um to make proposed grids that and that
by the way one of my associates on the BEC is a licensed engineer so this what he does for a living he was a little concerned and I I expressed that concern on his behalf that because there are silt and clay present in the detention
gallery he wants to know if you felt or if anybody might feel that future settlement from the additional load caused by the fill might result in issues with um the structural column foundation supporting the second and third and
fourth floors. >> Mhm. >> Um is there a geotechnical report prepared for this site that may have addressed this issue of settlement or consolidation of existing soils below the proposed fill areas? And will there be?
>> There has been a geotechnical report prepared for the project. um not by myself as as we're prepared so that the structural engineer can make the proper design decisions in in designing the foundation. They also have
copies structural engineer has copies of my design. So they understand that there is plastic pipe in the ground and they can and if we do make it porous pipe in some regard then that will change the
parameters yet again and make his system his design foundation design even uh different because you have a saturated condition. Um so being that you do have a geotechnical report you haven't given us the answer
to the main question here is will future settlement from the additional loading cause the fill to result in any issues in the proposed detention gallery which goes all around the parking lot right um but especially at the rear part where the fill is going a gout. He's he's
asking if there's any concerns about the footings of the columns that are going to be holding up the building in that rear portion due to the weight of the new fill. >> Well, I I think the field is going to be compacted in place standard practice, right?
>> And it's in 95% of this maximum dry density and if it's placed in that fashion, the the settlement should be minimal. Okay. Uh, you know, I'm sure this is all outlined in the geotechnical report, but >> which no one's seen yet, right?
>> We have not seen that. You have not seen that? >> Anyone? Okay. >> If there's a geotech report, can we submit it to the board? >> Yeah, it's not my document. It will be submitted by the applicant. Yes. >> Okay. I mean, we may as well have our
engineer take a peek at that. Yes, we will provide the board with the copy and the engineering copy reg. >> No, we have no interest in having a building that settles and have practice. I'm sure we're going to have here being as conservative as they always are in
designing the footings and we do communicate fairly regularly is this is my piece, here's how it works with yours and and so I hope to have no impacts that you're concerned about. Yeah, I I I would just say
get everything over to Dee and and then send your report um to Albero so he can inform it on his >> Any other questions? Does anyone down there have any other
questions? S, anything to add on this section? Okay, everyone's trying to help me out now. Um at this time if there are any members of the public who have questions for
this gentleman only and that I mean it's not a comment time you have to ask questions not a comment you have to come up to the mic and ask questions of only asking questions of the witness.
My only concern was on the east side because I have a pardon. >> Sir, state your name, please. Your name. >> I'm sorry. It's it's it's a hearing, so you have to state your name. >> Oh, Charlie Demick. >> Can you come come on up? Just state your
name. And you your municipality is the township of Verona. >> Yeah. And I I own an apartment there >> next door. >> What's your name, sir? >> I own Charlie Demick. Can you spell your last name, please? >> Dimmick. D I M E C K.
>> Thank you. >> Been in Verona for 54 years. >> Okay. Um, do you have a question for this gentleman? >> Yeah. On this side is next adjacent property
is uh the Verona Manor. I have an apartment there and uh the property on that side has nothing but a cyclone fence on there. I assume you're going to put a retainer wall of some kind because
the property actually is lower than our property. >> So we have in the front where it intersects Bloomfield Avenue where that driveway intersects is just going to be a board on board fence. So the cyclone fence as you call it or chain link will
be taken down and the board on board will replace it. So it'll be six feet high and you won't be able to see through that will continue down the property line and then in the back we do have a retaining wall because you do get too low and we we we step up a little bit
>> as you go back to the back gets lower. >> Correct. >> Even on this property >> in the back we'll have the fence and the wall on that side. >> Okay. So that's that's what I was concerned about and and I was worried about how close the building would be, but it looks pretty good the distance
there between building that's there because there's a driveway on our side too. >> Yes. Yeah. So the 12T drive about a 12 >> and I think it's a good building on your side. >> That's all I have. So thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Are there any other
members of the public that have any questions for the engineer? Seeing none, I'm going to close um the public question period. Do you have any further comments comments? >> No, I'm ready to call next >> here to bring the traffic on.
Good idea. Can we take a three minute breakie? We good. >> Okay. >> Okay. Our next witness is Craig Paraggoy, our traffic engineer. >> Can you state your name and address for
the record, please? >> Sure. My name is Craig Paraguay. P E R E G O Y. Business address 245 Main Street, Chester. And can you raise your right hand? Can you swear or affirm a testimony event to keep the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you. Uh Craig, can you please
briefly go through your education professional background? >> Sure. Uh I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Virginia Tech. I'm a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey. I testify pretty much every night. Um uh I've testified here in Verona, but it was years ago. I don't know if it was this board or so many
board members a long time ago. Um traffic engineer for 25 years. License is correct. Good standing. >> SAB accepted as a uh engineer and with expertise in traffic engineering. >> Are you guys in the final? No, you're not. You got knocked. >> No. >> Yeah. No, he may not.
>> We were a bubble tea. Did not hit me. >> So, Craig, you've been sitting here throughout the hearing. There's been some questions that have come up related to traffic. Can you address the questions that been raised? >> Sure. And I hopefully I've got the sound like there were three issues to discuss.
Um that loading space, you were asking, can a vehicle front end? Any vehicle that could fit in that loading space could swing out the front end. If I was driving it, I back in because that's easier. But >> they physically could do it. You know, a huge giant truck isn't going to be able
to do that. They would use that install. >> But what they would be using like a sprinter van back >> sprinter van, step van, a smaller box truck, a U-Haul certainly could make that that swing. >> Can you speak to um what Mr. Anderson discussed very briefly about uh moving
trucks and what the procedure are for larger uh trucks for resident movements. >> Yeah. And I do a lot of residential work with a lot of residential developers and they tell me that most of apartments like this they usually are using a 14 maybe a 17t U-Haul truck which can park
in a parking space. Okay. Having driven one from Virginia Tech to parked in several parking spaces uh with it. If somebody does for whatever reason have a larger truck or a moving truck, it's usually built into the lease that I have. You have to coordinate with the management and they could either do a couple things. You could cordon off
spaces on the site. But since you got the three that are under our control on Bloomfield Avenue, it would just be those are reserved for you in the middle of the day. You would do an hour times. But that's it's few and far between that. Um, and how do you anticipate
um, regular deliveries, your food deliveries, your uh, >> the same way they do it to everybody? The same way they do everybody else up and down Bloomfield Avenue. Wherever they find a spot, they pull in and they'll deliver. I never You can provide a loading zone and say, "Amazon guy, park here." They'll never pull in the
private property. Too much liability. There were you had two questions, too. the one about the the trip generation with the restaurant if it was a restaurant. So, I did take a look at that retail space. We called it a a strip retail plaza and when you don't know the tenants, it's going to be a mix of multiple tenants. That's the best
land use to to take a look at. But, if I looked at it as all restaurant, it would actually generate less traffic during weekday morning and weekday evening and one extra car during a Saturday peak hour. So, a a restaurant's going to fit right in there. We already know that one of the users isn't going to be a
restaurant. And when it comes to the outdoor seating, which was the other uh thing that you brought up as was mentioned, it's sort of a small area. So unless it's a really large area that like an attraction for an outdoor seating, you generally don't take that into account. The IT data that we use,
the Institute of Transportation Engineer specifically says uh the trip generation is based on the interior space. A couple reasons for that. One is it's seasonal outdoor, especially in the Northeast. You're not going to be eating outside for seven months of the year no matter what. And what happens is when you get that nice weather and people eat
outside, then there tend to be less people eating inside. So it really just the customer is going to eat outside. You don't you don't really add that much more. And in this case, it's not going to be a huge area. It certainly wouldn't be the attractive feature restaurant. It's not an outdoor beer garden sort of
thing uh that would ever go in here. So um the numbers I use were appropriate. >> So >> I hope that was the two that you asked, but it sound like you have more. So >> I think I have a couple more. So um we just like to add our traffic expert. I'm not a traffic expert, but a traffic expert from our office did review the
impact study report and they found it to be acceptable. There were a few clarifications that they needed and they were pretty straightforward. So, I think I can just like ask you the questions and you can like just answer them. There was a question about the side distance calculations on Park Avenue. So right now on the site plan, I know you showed
the 20 foot um 20 25 ft wide like side triangle, but um were there any calculations done for the site to calculate the site distance at the stop signs for both park and full field? >> Yes, we we we did we can we can give you that. We need >> and if you could show that on the plan
as well so we can take a look at it. >> Yeah, and that's fine. And and what's nice is when you're coming out of park, you're you're up high so you have a really good vantage point. Those walls are very low. Um we meet the safe sight distance there. >> Do you anticipate a large youth guest
delivery vent um going underneath the building around the property and do you think it's going to be okay with the clearance? >> I I don't anticipate that. Like I said before, even if you provide a space and say this is reserved on my property for the UPS guy, he's still going to park on
the street because they they don't like to go on private property. But if one did wander in there, the back drive aisle or rear drive aisle, there's a 12t clearance site and those those UPS trucks are 11 ft tall, so they could they could >> it would be tight, but they would be able to make it.
>> Yes. Craig, who regulates the parking on their dedicated spaces? Who who obviously the police have jurisdiction, but what's the policing? >> Well, it's a county road, so it's up to them in terms of whatever signage and
then I guess it would probably be codified into your ordinance if those were to be enforceable if those three spaces were dedicated to this. I'm sure you have a section that says here's the streets that are one way. Here's the streets where there's no parking and snow emergencies. That would probably end up there would be the best way.
>> Is that just so you can risk? >> I I don't know. We're I'm looking at our >> somebody who might know better than Greg on this one. >> Yeah, I don't know if the town has codified by ordinance any specific on street parking uh for specific
businesses. I'm not sure if that exists. Um, so again, it would be uh a unique circumstance for Corona. >> That's what I'm And now I'm That was my next question is basically how often does this happen? But, you know, like I've seen it before. You wouldn't have
to do it. You know, you put the signs up and you trust people that they're going to read the sign and know that they're not supposed to park there if they're not, you know, appropriately parked. If you want to enforce it, then you would need that in the ordinance. But you still probably could
write somebody a ticket. They wouldn't know. If if a traffic engineer like me got the ticket, I'd look in your or say, "Oh, this isn't any good." But realistically, for three spaces, you could probably not worry about it. If you don't have that section in your ordinance, I wouldn't suggest creating it for these three spaces and just let the signs do their job. I think the only
thing that I remember I'm not even sure if it's codified was during COVID there were pickup spa you know like pick up and drop off spaces that were secured but other than that I don't recall anything >> they weren't they weren't
>> they weren't codified >> it it would be up to the temp it's not necessary you know if you trust the signs will do their job maybe it's something if it's becoming a nuisance then you do it but I would go out of my way if I were you I mean because I mean if if I just if I
wanted to run across and see somebody over at Prout and just sneak a spot, >> you know, over in front of Hillrest. >> Yeah. >> Who's going to tell me >> to understood? I think if there there is if the town is not inclined at the
beginning, but if there happened to be a nuisance and noticed that people were doing that, then I think that the applicant would approach the town council and ask them to codify codify that. >> So something to park here. I mean,
>> again, I think that sets a precedent that hasn't been set yet for other businesses in town. And I'm not sure it's something that the council would I don't want to speak on behalf of the council, but I'm not sure if they haven't done it yet that they'd necessarily be inclined to do it for one
specific business. Again, it becomes very difficult, of course, even if they were inclined. Uh again, if you have uh somebody who stops into a business and and picks up a pack of gum, then leaves and walks in the park and and takes a bus into the city and then comes back
and they they were they frequented one of the businesses there 8 hours ago. It's it's hard to enforce >> Yeah. >> of that move. >> Are these spots designated for the businesses, not for the residents?
>> It's correct. is going to be designated for the yeah commercial use >> for commercial use >> and there's going to be signage and there's going to be a building manager that's on site so I'm sure that they're going to be looking at it themselves um you know they're going to they're going to be there as well so >> and and that makes the most sense anyway
because there's no overnight parking on the street >> right >> oh well that makes that makes it easier then because the thing you do want to avoid is somebody leaving their car there for months and time on their way so that's not an issue Oh, go.
>> So, without causing a problem here, the reason they're asking for these three spots is because they're >> how we started >> deficient on parking. Is that correct? >> It was built >> brings it to the number. Correct. >> It it does and it was specifically accounted for within the redevelopment
plan that if you create it because currently there's there's uh two two existing curb cuts along L Avenue. by closing the curve cuts there's now an additional three parking spaces. So now that there's a total of seven along the frontage so the creation of three spaces
was um because they were creating three new spaces that was allowed to be counted towards the required parking count. So to avoid all this and having to go to the council and is is it best that we just >> offer a waiver of parking rather than
have to go through doing something that the only thing I can think of and I'm thinking of towns around us. I've never seen this and the only thing close to it is a designated area for drop offs for schools. >> That's so I don't know if it would be
wise for us to sand your thoughts. Um Kevin, >> I I I think the idea we're probably raised. >> I think the idea of the counts >> the the parking spots counting as credits towards achieving the the
parking requirement is helpful, but having them specifically designated for those businesses. I'm not sure if I necessarily agree with that or think that that's appropriate, but I I think allowing them to to count towards the park and compliance. I think that that makes sense because they created three
new. >> So just to to what uh Kevin what I would also like to add is when we were looking at the revamp plan and drafting it and looking at the different concepts. The reason was that you want to fully
satisfy whatever is required. And my thought process on this was that if you have three designated parking for that business because you if you you know you have like two ingress and egress uh three ingress and eress we
were closing two that um actually um we calculated um that was enough to create three and and at that time we had spoken to the uh owner of the property who said he was going to talk to the county and the county seemed fine with having three
on street parking dedicated to the business. My thought process of having that was because that way you ensure anybody who's coming to visit these commercial spots have a you know have a parking spot and it's not like they're
driving around or anything like that. That's the thing. quite likely they may not need it but I my suggestion would be it would be a good idea to have uh demarcated um designated parking uh for
these uh business users just my two cent leave it as is >> I would suggest that >> I think it'll help the business >> I think the applicant would like that as well >> and people want to run in and grab like a cup of coffee I'm not going to go park in the back just go someplace else so I think it's
>> do we have any kind of u statement in writing from the county that they are >> on board with this or to to a degree. >> Yeah, we don't have anything in writing right now. We could get that to you uh if necessary, but we also did submit the
county application and um I think as part of that application or what have you, we can ask for the county to specifically mark that on the plan. >> Not to mention that we don't have jurisdiction over it and there's no ordinance. So, it really doesn't matter what the county says.
Well, wait. The county it is a town. >> Well, that's between the them like the town has if if there's no ordinance, the town cannot enforce it. >> So, if the town can't enforce it, then it's really it's really the the agreement between
>> the county, >> the owner and the county. >> So, wouldn't it be nice to just have a copy of that? >> Yeah. I mean, yes, but it shouldn't be a condition or anything like that because >> but if we're going to approve a plan that kind of inherently states that those three spots are connected to the
development, don't we want to know that the county is on board? Three spots on Bloomfield Avenue connected to the businesses. Don't we want to >> Well, see that's going back then. So I it's so the redevelopment plan and Stan's going to just clarify this but it
was just the creation itself of the three spaces. We are just doing this extra effort with the county um to have the county say okay these are dedicated for this but per the redevelopment plan just the creation of the three extra spaces without any signage. we were entitled to this great parking space
credit. But for us and for the operations and everything that we talked about, we we would like that and >> right. >> So I remember when we were even when I was writing this too, >> you know, we thought that because the rule is under the county's jurisdiction,
it just made sense not uh writing that in the readap plan. But uh we but like like um uh Lisa said, it is just there the three spaces can be provided because they're newly created. >> But but going back to the original
question which was about enforcement the applicant doesn't feel that there's a need for enforcement at this time. Correct. So we don't need an ordinance. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah. What I >> I don't see on the site plans though are any signage proposed to reserve those
spots. Is that something that >> Yeah, I think we need to work out the specific language with the county, but that is the intent to have. >> So, I mean, my thought is if we get conformed plans with the signage plan that reserves the spots, we signed off on it, the county signs off on it, I
think that's all we need at this point. >> That makes I mean, we can Yeah, >> but we don't ever do anything else in terms of >> the council getting involved, >> right? There's no there's no actually known hardship satisfying parking spots
actually make less permanent parking spots on the space and then get more but in the city the county >> approved the plan with the signage that reserves it for businesses. >> That's an approval. >> That's fine. >> What if the county doesn't?
>> It's not part of the requirement. >> That's exactly what I was saying. So what the county does does not matter to this board. >> Technically it does not it shouldn't >> because the county might say no. >> Right. >> Right. >> But we don't think so. But >> it's not part of the reason. >> But the fact is that in front of the
building there are three extra spots. That's my purpose. >> Newly created. >> Newly created. I think that newly created spots. >> They are not permanent ones built into this site because of that. And I'd say like that's an upside of >> No. And I I want to emphasize it's newly
created because you know moving down nobody should say oh we can use three spots outside our our business. This is new because the egress was closed. >> Yeah. So if anybody complains say get rid of your cur and you can you can have
those spaces. So I think I think about the spots. >> You can block your own cur. No, >> no, because I know Bloomfield Avenue, we do have spots. So, that would be >> I haven't heard anything about meters.
>> And that could be a way to enforce a big 2hour parking so people don't just camp out there. >> There are no meters up there. It's all 30 minute parking. All 30. And >> maybe the signage would be would be from the county of Essics rather than
>> Oh, it definitely will be from the county. Yes. So that is the worst traffic light in the world right now. >> No, it is not. >> Yes, it is. >> I I disagree. >> You just don't
like that is so not the worst. >> It's the worst. >> Try getting out of here. That's the worst. >> You got to speed. >> All right, back on track. >> Yeah, I know. >> Um >> Um So I'm I'm I'm worried. I feel like these numbers are a little optimistic.
So I want you to you know >> what numbers >> the the traffic numbers traffic generation numbers um what is the real dayto-day of like what do we got 33 units like what is what is the real patterns that we're looking at? What are
the what are the times um that residents aside from the peak times, you know, they'll be just give me give me the I want to know dig deeper into these numbers and say what is what does life look like Monday through
Friday and on Saturday. >> Yeah. And and and those numbers are from the IT, the Institute of Transportation Engineers. They're what we use to forecast them. Invariably, every time I've actually done on the ground counts and compared them to it in New Jersey at least, we're generating less than what they say,
>> less than transit availability and and since co the numbers have come down, especially for residential, a lot more people are working from home. So, that's probably an overestimation, but I I always double check this. The census gives you the time that people leave home to go to work. So, I go to
the census track that my project is in. and make sure that there's nothing on the wagon. In this case, the busiest hour, it's about 33% of the people who leave in the hour. So, that's why people say, "Oh, having 33 apartments only five or six cars leave."
It's because we're only looking at 1 hour. They're leaving between 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 a.m. and coming back between 3 and 7. So, that's that's where those numbers come from. cuz you knew like you actually like you spotted what's real like the UPS truck's not going to find a spot underneath and they're going to
park on they're going they're going to find the most expedient place right so you know same thing with the regular folks coming in and out um do you think that light would need to be changed
because of this and talk about talking with the county um would they be um They open to, you know, I don't know, changing the timing on that light. Right. >> Yeah. It's it's my understanding the county is upgrading some of these signals along Bloomfield Avenue that
they should work there. They'll ret time them and then hopefully have the better technology to detect vehicles and things like that. So hopefully that's going to improve. But just from this alone, even if we were put even if this was a vacant site now and the garden center wasn't there and we were adding this, I don't think the numbers will be enough that it
would change the operation of this rapid light significantly to the point where you might touch it. Um cuz there's also there's school I don't know if you calculated in this but you know it's residential there's there's school up the road. I'm
trying to think which way they would go. They couldn't make a right turn. Um, but they also could go out park in the lab. I'm not sure they would, but um, is that have you, you know, you see any concerns in that or is that in your calculations
like school pickup and drop off and then coming back home there? >> Yeah. No, that would all be included because these are research counts at other similar buildings throughout the country. So there that's school activities involved. What those other ones that I base this on don't take into account is that there's an express bus
to New York City right at the corner >> right there. >> So some people who drove at those other buildings are going to walk out the door and get on the bus. So you're going to have less traffic in that regard. >> Do you >> I just want you to know that she said
that the traffic expert for Boswell had looked over this impact study and found it to be acceptable. I I know that you have questions. I just wanted to >> I heard that. >> Okay. I didn't know if you would have >> give me an A+. >> So I want to get I'm trying to get some
insight into this. >> I get it. >> It is. It's not a pleasant, you know, there's a lot of traffic there and we're, you know, significantly impacting this. You know, permanent new patterns. The, you know, the shopping there is um
seasonal, right? It's it's you know empty in December. So now you know we're putting a very to me the impact of this I I believe you know great respect to the assessments here you know has potential to be understated. So that's
my voicing my concerns. >> Correct. What's what is the threshold trip generation that DOT uses to decide whether or not a particular development is going to have a a significant impact
warranty? What's that threshold? >> It's it's 100 trips per hour. Basically, if I if this if Bloomfield Avenue was a state highway under DOT jurisdiction, we would need a permit because we're changing the driveways. But if you weren't touch if you weren't doing any work in the road and generating up to 99
more trips in and out in the peak hour, any peak hour, they'd say they issue it's a letter of no interest is what it's called. It doesn't generate enough traffic for them to bother looking at here. If if you don't even consider the garden center on the site, we're at 56.
So we're about half of what that significance is. >> Do you want to continue? Do did you finish your >> That's all I have. Yeah, >> that's all you had. Um, any any guys down here? Anyone else? Any any concerns from the
planning perspective? Okay. Thank you very much. >> No. >> Oh, damn it. Um, any members of the public um have any questions for this expert? Please come to the mic.
Seeing none. Did I screw that up again? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you very much again. I I'm closing uh public question. >> What do you think? >> No. >> No. >> Well, >> we have one more witness.
>> We have one more witness. >> Let's take Let's take a vote. >> Let's get it done in 25 minutes and get out of here. >> We'll be done in 10 or on you. >> Are you a speed speaker? >> Yeah.
>> No, we didn't start again. >> 10:30. >> We can take a vote on that. >> Absolutely. I'm I'm just, you know, >> I'm here. >> Well, why don't we see if we can get you 25 minutes. >> All right. Right. There shouldn't be, if
you're starting with them, you shouldn't have to >> there shouldn't be a time. >> What you should do is take a vote of the board to make sure that the board because the the rules say that there's no new testimony after 10:00. >> So, you should take a vote of the board to proceed or not to proceed.
I don't You don't have the authority to continue without the vote of the board. >> That's right. >> I move that we uh take a vote to decide where That's not how you do it. You move to either keep the meeting open
>> or you move to close the meeting. That it's one or the other. You can't have it. >> So, it's a the board will not hear a new application nor conduct new business or begin any new witnesses testimony after 10 p.m. Board will not take testimony after 10:30 p.m. Timeline set forth
hearing in the extended upon vote of at least twothirds of members hearing any suchation. So, >> you just wrote Yeah, I know. Don't >> let's make a motion to extend the time for testimony till 10:30 and then extend
the meeting till 10:45 to take a vote. Is that that that's the motion? >> Let's move our butts if we're going to do that. >> Second. >> Okay. It's been seconded by Mr. Magarell. >> You can just take a voice over. You need
twothirds to say yes. Raise your hand if you We're just gonna do it. Okay. >> Okay. Our next witness is Greg Spitzer, who is our project a project architect. >> Can you state your name? Spell your name and uh business address for the record,
please. >> Sure. My name is Gregory Schwitzer. G R E G O R Y. Last name S Wii T Z E R. My business is located at 7 Oak Place, Montlair, New Jersey. And can you raise your right hand, Mr. Schwitzer, do you swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give is the truth? >> I affirm so yes. Thank you. >> And Greg, your license is current. >> My license is current. Yes. >> Would you like us to go through his qualifications or do you accept it as a expert in architecture? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Greg. Um I'm have your slide
presentation up if we can mark the whole slide presentation as A2. Y >> um and if we can start by discussing the exterior design of the the building. >> Sure. and to make this real quick without going off track. I prepared some quick notes and it'll be very quick and
easy to read. Um, what you're looking at now on the screen is the north and western elevations of the building. Um, >> please try to speak up a little. >> The mic's not working. >> I don't think the mics are working. >> This mic is working. >> Okay, thank you.
>> Perfect. Okay, so I'll start with the uh primary uh frontages of the building. uh starting with the Bloomfield Avenue, also known as the Northern Elevation. This functions as the primary front frontage of the building and is treated architecturally as the main commercial
face of the project. Uh the Park Avenue elevation, also known as the western elevation, serves as the secondary frontage and is intentionally activated along Bloomfield Avenue at the ground levels and in also includes a portion of retail storefronts with a
large transparent glazing and pedestrian streetscape consistent with the goals of the redevelopment plan along Park Avenue. The building continues the commercial activation with storefront glazing and there's a tenant fitness facility which provides activity and
visibility along the frontage. This treatment avoids blank facades and ensure the building contributes positively to both the street environments. Next slide please. Okay. Uh what you see here is just a continuation of the design on the other
elevations, the southern and eastern elevations. It's consistent with the materiality and the administration shown on the other two elevations. Next slide. Okay. What we're looking at now is the first floor. The first floor clearly
denotes the uh demising of three commercial tenant spaces. The light blue area shows the residential u entry and uh amenity spaces that are located in that area. Obviously, there's a sidewalk and a portion of the parking area that's
separating the second condition, which uh has the fitness facility that I just spoke of. There's even a dog washing area over there for the tenants and storage for uh building maintenance and other operations. Next slide, please.
The first floor, actually, my apologies, the second floor, um, shows a typical configuration of residential units in the building. Um, what we're looking at currently is a floor that has this up. Okay. A total of eight
two-bedroom units with dens, one three-bedroom unit, one affordable threebedroom family unit, and two supportive housing units connected internally by connected door. There is a space that is in between the two units and that space is used for a 24-hour
attendant to uh assist the supportive housing element. Um it is located in the plan and indicated in the pinkish colors. The yellow and the purple colors indicate the other uh
apartment dwellings on the floor. Next one. Third floor. Nine two-bedroom units and three three-bedroom units. The there's a uh fluctuation in color between the yellow, the dark gold, and the light
gold. Just simply to help you denote the difference between adjacent units of the of similar site of type. The purple is the three apartment unit. Yes. Mhm. Same with the fourth floor. The fourth
floor shows the same. Uh what we have here on the fourth floor is one one-bedroom unit with a den, five two-bedroom units with dens, and three three-bedroom units. Again, purple indicating three units, the yellow indicating two-bedroom units, and the
blue is indicating the single uh bedroom unit. >> And there's also the rooftop amenity space. >> There is a rooftop amenity space uh that is open to um all tenants. It's a common support area to the building. Is that available to everyone in the
building? >> For the residents of the building. >> That's right. >> Yes. >> Including the >> including the supportive and affordable housing. All residents of the building. When I speak residents, it's everyone in the building >> and what type of amenities are are
proposed. >> Uh in that area, it's a p patio area, soft seating, some flexible seating, perhaps some umbrellas. Uh the building will maintain and provide a couple of grills outside in that area. That will be the only area in fact in the entire
property where there would be any outdoor uh collection of people and uh the ability to use the outdoor uh grilling areas. And what you see here is just a simple roof plan. Um what we provided is a
diagram. The dark gray indicates the solid flat roof areas. The white areas are just the areas that pop up just a little bit above some of the uh accented uh design features that we have on the elevations of the building. And then in the center you see the series of little
circles with the squares that's just representative of condenser units and around it there's a screen of which uh conceals that so it's not visible from the street. By the way, the building is 100% fully sprinklered and has a fully automatic uh and monitored fire alarm system.
>> The height of that screen uh what what is the height of that screen that's proposed around the units? >> Well, generally speaking, we would put a screen about 5T to 6 feet, but it really depends on the final equipment design and clearly that's something that we can pass with the readable.
>> Absolutely. Yes. That was goes to the question I had about the visibility especially because of the slope of the road. Yes. Um the lower level it doesn't matter but just the higher end of the panal of Bloomfield. This concern a lot of the
visibility. >> Understood. And just keep in mind that this is pushed back quite a bit from the Bloomfield uh street uh elevation and as well the uh park uh elevation. So it's it's pretty concealed uh even by a
portion of the popup roofs that you see that surround it on the perimeter of the building. >> The mechanicals are placed in the center of the roof. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> What kind of system is going to support the roof gardens with respect to weight drainage?
>> I didn't quite hear his question. what's going to support the or the roof >> the green root system like what sort of system is going to water and allow for runoff >> of any of the planting the green roots.
>> Okay. So, are you're talking about the terraces that we have along the front where the landscaping comes in and it kind of drapes the side of the building. >> Yeah. Yeah. That would be managed and maintained by uh the building support staff. However, I would assume that it
would be a very basic simple drip system that would water and irrigate the plants. >> So that sits on top of >> on top of pavers >> on top of on on top of Yes. Concrete pavers. Yes.
>> On the second floor. But there >> if you go to the elevation or the perspective of the building, it gives you a much uh clearer image of what we're talking about. If you could see in this perspective, there are a whole bunch of terraces that step back from
the building, which uh was in keeping with the master plan um creating really nice visual breaks and and and changes in plane and materials to make the building look interesting. So at the second floor and at the third floor and
even at the uh perhaps even uh the roof uh there would be some uh green planting materials. Uh there would be in separate planter containers and that would be resting on concrete pavers and it would receive a
drip irrigation watering system. >> This isn't just the model, right? This is what like when you go to a condo and you see the model and this isn't included. That's that this is that's included. That is included. >> And to correct
>> the brick. >> Yes. >> In the in the um angle in the pictures of the east west elevation pictures, it looks orange. >> And this picture. No. See that's orange. No. No orange brick. Right.
>> Yeah. It's like a red brick. >> Understood. And to satisfy your curiosity about the materials, I have a box on the table back here. >> Oh, that's >> and we have the actual materials and have provided samples that we can leave here for the board. >> Thank you. >> That's in the after.
>> Yes. >> Question on the um on the the the supportive housing unit. >> Yes, sir. >> Can you just clarify where the connecting ones are? I see some reddish ones. There's like a third one in the corner. >> Sure.
>> Let me move to my plan. Okay. So, if you look at the drawing, uh the two on the top starting from the left corner moving to right, those two are the supportive housing units. And as stated, there's a
connector to where they'll have 24-hour support. And that person will actually monitor the occupants of this space and support and conversely do the same on this side. >> And that's the office. >> That is correct. >> And and is that is that um um for
physical support, mental support? Is that like like or is it open like this could be what's the what's the applicable use of those? Well, I am not certain per se um what that is, but supportive housing, whatever support
that provides, that's that's what that person does. My my my guess would be if there's someone that needs some physical assistance, there would be someone there. If there's someone there that, you know, needs to be monitored, make sure that they're taking their medication, that there's someone there
to make sure that that is being done. It's that sort of thing. >> Okay. Yes, Madam Chairman. >> No, no, no, no. I'm I'm just waiting for you to get to my favorite part. >> Okay, perfect. And Okay. So, uh
Okay, perfect. So, what we are showing you is a uh landscaping uh plan that we've prepared. Uh we're doing a total of 390 shrubs and trees, 242 tornado plantings, and all of this is supported
with a drip irrigation system. Um the plants that you see there are clearly identified with color and species. Most of these were uh decided upon to ensure that there's some visual interest and it's constantly changing uh seasonally.
So you just don't have a green patch. There's pops of color coming up around the space. The plants that you see here um we did take an advisement with the issue of putting in um trees that were uh deer resistant. So we tried to make
sure that that >> So you still have American arborite listed on this. I think you meant it was supposed to be green giant. >> It is supposed to be the green giant arborites. That is correct. >> That's we already discussed this. >> Yes. Yes, we did. And uh on the side you'll see some of the landscaping
materials as well of which I've brought samples of those of which we have. Um the others are pretty quite simple where we're using permeable tiles uh for the meand the uh the sinuous path that takes you along that uh setback walk on along park and we have uh the field stone uh
Pennsylvania field stone that we're using for the retaining walls at the corner um anchoring the site as it currently is current now. And I have samples of that here as well. >> Sam, do you want to ask some questions that you might have had?
>> Yes, you might have these from your >> Yeah. Um, so the uh on the second floor, unit number 12, there's a 10 by3t 10 and a 9 ft 8 in x 12 ft bedroom. the
den seems larger than the bedroom. So, you know, what like what's the rationality behind that? >> Quite honestly, um we u also noticed that and and and very pleased that you pointed that out to us and unfortunately they were incorrectly labeled. So, we'll just switch the two.
>> So, then what I would suggest obviously, you know, a den there are different ways, right? A den cannot be converted into a second bedroom, third bedroom. In this case, there are ways of doing that. One is
closet, but wayfair has wonderful um you know wayfair that website. You can get a cupboard or that's what I'm trying to say. >> Okay. >> So, that's one way. The second way is you don't you have a a larger door
opening, right? you as an architect, you know, so whatever you can um show us where you know we ensure that it it it cannot be potentially converted into a third bedroom. That was the only concern.
>> No problem. And it was never our intent to uh >> I know but yes >> but it's it's not your intent but whoever comes and >> understood. >> Um so that was number one. Um and then there was I had another question about
the repurposed uh rot iron railing this um engineering plans talk about having that rot iron railing on top of the retaining wall and we have like fence height and things like that in section
um 7.3 and all I want to in you to tell us because we didn't see the rot iron reference I I didn't it. Uh so basically whether it would be in compliance with the uh zoning ordinance or do you require a waiver from that or parents in
this case? So >> to my knowledge the rot iron railing was removed from the uh project. So that is no longer a contributing element to the project. >> Oh, I thought it was just removed on each side. the whole thing.
>> No, there there's the road iron that is in in front that you like if you drive past today, you see that that's going to be repurposed and placed elsewhere, but um after seeing this comment and the height potentially, we're going to remove it from the the plan.
>> Yes, totally. So, because that I think um the uh I believe there was another Yes. It says uh uh that it looks like you know if I look at the engineers drawings the side panel drawings it
shows a retaining wall along Park Avenue right and then they show a rot iron fence so that will be removed too correct >> yeah because it's 3 foot >> so are we all okay with that >> so what do we need the broad iron for
>> nostalgic >> oh nostalgical Sorry. >> I just don't want to push for Thank you. >> All right. Hold on. So, a little confusion. If if it triggers a a variant that the client would like to retain it
but does not want to. If it's an issue for the board, we'll remove it. But if it's a non-issue, we'll request a way what the variant if necessary. >> Deviation. >> It's up to you. What are you nodding at? Tell me. >> Yes. All right. We want to keep it. >> We want it. Okay. >> Does the architect like it? >> I want it. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Go on.
Okay. >> No, I don't have I didn't have a problem. It's just that they need to practice that. >> I have a question because at the beginning when you opened up the entire evening, you said something about fully comporting, but we're going to
change the wall. So, what did you mean by that? You said that we're going to >> Yeah, I'll clarify that. So, that was the with respect to the height of the retaining wall in the front yard that >> which is on Park Street or and curves around. Speaking of the wall itself, the
the what's permitted is 4T 4T and we were at 4.5. So, we're going to reduce that to the 4 ft to be I just wanted to understand what that was. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I don't think we ever explained that. >> Oh, I apologize. >> That's okay. It's okay. Um Sam, I'm sorry.
>> No, no. I I think that was it. Um everything else was covered in the testimony like mechanical equipment was under the architect. Can we not define but clarify
where the where the road iron will be? >> Yeah. >> And what height whatever so that I have something to >> Yeah. >> to write in my res. >> Well, is it existing on the plans?
>> It is on the It's on the plan. Yeah. >> And it's going to remain. >> It will remain. >> So, it's going to remain remain. So what was shown on the site plans will remain. We are not withdrawing it from the application. >> Can you tell me what sheet it's on? Can you can whoever did the civil plans site
sheet page. That would just be helpful. >> Probably a site planet. >> It's on the site plan sheet. It's primarily by uh Yes. >> Okay. >> Primarily by Park Avenue entrance or park Yeah. Yes. >> Site plan sheet two, I believe, is what
was said. Sheet two of seven is the utility. Are we talking architectural sheet? >> No. >> SP2 SP sheet 208. >> Yeah, it's not the problem.
>> I have sheet 207 called remain. radio utility >> says repurpose existing lock. >> So that's what that said. So it's not changed until >> we on the same.
>> Yeah, it's in here. >> Repurpose existing iron railing. >> It's along the entrance to Park Avenue on Park Avenue at the top of the wall there >> going south. uh going in both directions actually for
for but it frames that entrance >> the entrance into park uh the ingress ingress point into from the park avenue entrance. I know I'm on the wrong >> and I can show you here. You can see it even on here on the screen. It's right
here. >> Repurpose existing rod iron railing over there. >> Okay. Um and before anything else, this is going to be A2. >> Yes. >> I just have one super quick question. Um
pre preface it by saying that I think the building architecture looks really really nice. Um is it or was there any effort made for it to be lead certified or did you come close to it being lead certified? >> We have made no effort to make it lead
certified. However, most of our practice is around selecting materials and finishes that are consistent with lead practices. >> Um, is there thought to discon I I know that you can't do them all, but
some of them could probably run into the gardens. Sheet flow into the gardens. disconnecting leader pipes is sort of like a good practice. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> So, anything else? Right now,
>> I just want to say the design is is thoughtful and um well represented. >> I don't know if that's a joke. Um, >> so you said awful. >> That's awful. >> Oh, I I heard awful, too. I'm like
>> my heart just went to the floor. >> Like all over the town. >> And he said it with such a straight face. I was like, "Oh my god." >> I remember. I'm >> It's late. >> Understood. And sugar on the table. So
before we close, I I just want to open to the public. If they have any questions for the architect, if any members of the public have any questions for the architect, please step up to the mic. >> Comments are not open yet. We do that after we close the application and
that's not happening right now. So can you come back next month? >> Can we can we we're done with our affirmative testimony. So, I mean, we're >> not quite um because something is going to happen between Alvaro and your um
engineer um in terms of checking some numbers and all of that and I think that they should be present for the next meeting. >> Could could we do that as a condition of approval between the engineer? No,
absolutely not because this board has to approve the storm water management plan and that's just the way it is. We don't we don't say as a condition of approval. They'll work things out in the back room. >> But the the difference with this application is it is compliance with the ordinance and with the state ordinance
for for storm water management and what the client is. >> We don't know that yet. >> Well, we don't have any condition. If it doesn't, then they don't have the approval. >> Right. Well, so what what is your you don't want to bring anyone back. You don't want to continue.
>> Well, I think I think we presented the application. We agreed to a number of conditions which were great and thoughtful by the board. This is a really technical engineering storm order. >> I think you're rushing a closing argument right now and we're not ready to do that. I I appear I mean you have
your own practices obviously but this I to this is an engineering issue to be worked out between engineers which I typically see as conditions of approval and it's our position that the stormware plan today is is compliant. >> I don't buy that yet. I have to hear
that after the thoughtful work is done in in his office once we get >> Can we Can we take a a poll of the board as to whether this >> I I really don't think that it's up to you to ask the board if they should
grant you conditions of approval without hearing a final say so by the engineer. I have already I thought that this was already agreed to as a condition of approval. Um but >> I don't know what you're t we have not
been given 100% solid understanding of whether the storm water management system works the way that we were told it could work by your engineer. So Albero asked actually he had asked at
the site plan meeting to please send him the file so that he could run it on a system which never happened and had that happened this wouldn't be happen. So I I mean there was there was sworn testimony as to the system that was used and the
model that was used and we will provide that backup data and it seems that it was acceptable to the board's engineer as far as trying to remodel system. We're in compliance. What we're trying to do is is you know wait we're not done
testimony yet because he said that he was going to attempt to do some groundwater recharge. So, I'm not willing to just say as a condition of approval, we don't need to see anything again. >> But it was it was a good faith effort because it is in compliance today with
today's storm or waters. It was they were looking at the environmental commission's recommendations and we were going to take it under consideration and try to make it work. >> Taking it under consideration means that you have to come back and discuss it again. So, that's just >> the condition was because >> this is not a condition.
>> It was >> we don't know that it's compliant. >> No, it is. We don't know that that is that it is compliant because he hasn't run the numbers on his system and he's not convinced that it's 100% compliant either. I mean would you like to give your opinion on it?
>> I I wish to run the model and see the inputs there. So, please stop pushing, you know, >> it's not unusual for the board to hear the final say. So, and if there are any changes, I I mean, you could be upset with me and
that's fine. I don't care because the bottom line is we want to make sure that the system runs the way that it's supposed to run. And if there are going to be modifications to that system in so far as groundwater recharge and there are going to be perforations in the pipe
that run off to what could be a faulty strong drain on Park Street, then we want to we want to see the new calculations. And I think that that has to be brought back before this board with those new calculations if any.
And and we have to hear the testimony on it. and and that will be that I mean I I don't see reason to argue against that. >> I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just this is very highly unusual in my experience of appearing before boards
and having such a technical engineering issue when there's sworn testimony as to what the system was used and they're going to provide backup data. But it's the pleasure of the board. I don't I don't see a problem coming back and sewing it up. It's >> it's just another month and get and you know
>> it's not another month. It's sewing up one issue and then you can give your closing argument and we could be done. Okay. So, I don't understand why you're giving so much push back about something that is going to change. You're making modifications to a stormwater management
system and you don't want to talk about it in public. I'm not >> It's not about talking about it in public. It's about where we are today. It's the end of March. We're not going to be back here until the end of April. Then at the end of May is a resolution is going to be adopted. And then we're down X number of months before we can
submit for resolution compliance and put a shovel in the ground on this project that we're we're hoping to get done. So that that's the reason for my comments and I don't mean to be argumenting at all. So I don't mean to be disrespectful. Listen, I will make
best efforts if you can get the report to Alvaro as soon as possible. I'll make best efforts to have a resolution prepared at the next meeting in anticipation of the board's action and >> that would be its terrific.
>> We can so so this way you're accommodated but you know I recognize the chair's concern. We this board has been burnt in the past and and by people who are saying in good faith they're going to come back. Oh, and then we
couldn't do the new calculations or we you know we couldn't accommodate we couldn't do this. So I understand fully where where the chair is coming from. So I'll have the resolution prepared in anticipation of what the board's actions
will be. It would help if Alvaro could could happen sooner rather than later so I can incorporate that >> into the resolution. >> 100%. Thank you. And that that would be wonderful. >> Thank you all for your time. >> Thank you.
>> Um any other any new business? >> If we are uh if we are >> adjouring carrying can we do it to a deep >> without notice? without knowing. >> Just stated what date? Just state the date, the time. >> Uh, it will be April 23rd at 7 p.m. I
think April 23rd. >> We're now starting at 7 p.m. >> Yes. Um, we do have a matter that will proceed your matter, but because I I think it should be a relatively
simple, straightforward um redevelopment plans. to redevelopment plan for 251 and a half. >> And briefly guys, we will have a master plan update of our OSRP
where we're just wrapping the rosy properties back into the park. So the master plan update will be noticed as such and it will probably take three minutes because we already adopted the updated proc.
>> Yeah, I I just want to make sure that it's stated again. So, so this application is being carried to April 23rd at 700 p.m. in this chambers and there will be no further notice provided to the public. >> Thank you again. Thank you for your time and coming and we will get all those
reports to you as soon as pos. >> Thank you. >> Motion. >> Yeah. Motion to put that onion list. I got it.