[Music] Marco naar s SAR um everybody ready okay
sorry I'm not good evening everybody and welcome to this regular planning board meeting on February 27th 2025 um Madame secretary can you please call rooll Mrs
Parker pres Mr kth Mr Lily here Mr hman here Mr Kodi Mr deal here councilman Roman
manager O Sullivan here mayor Tim Boro present Vice chair fesi here chair Pearson here board attorney masara here engineer Marco
Navaro here and engineer sarine tanir here okay can everybody please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance no if you can yes as you're able iedge Ali to of the United States of America
the for it stands na indivisible lice I apologize um just an announcement General announcement tonight's planning board agenda has been changed and one wedge
would Drive will not be heard this evening uh only 60 Pompton Avenue will be heard this evening one wedgew drive was rescheduled due to a notice issue for March 27th exactly a month from this
evening right here at 7:30 p.m. so if anybody was here for that application I apologize um but the agendas get changed occasionally and they go right back up on the website with those edits um
also uh oh can you read the open public meetings act the notice requirements of the open public meetings act have been satisfied with respect to this meeting of the township of Verona planning board which is being held in person in the ballroom
of the Verona Community Center located at 880 Bloomfield Avenue Verona the time and date of this meeting meeting were included in the annual meeting notice posted in the community center and sent to the official newspaper of the township the Verona Cedar Grove times at
least 48 Hours preceding the start of this meeting the agenda and instructions on how to comment will be provided at the appropriate time all meetings are recorded those wishing to speak during any public common period should only provide their name and municipality
street addresses are not required please be advised that should a member of the public choose to State their street address it will not be redacted from the recording and I'd like to thank uh Kathleen for showing up for us this
evening um Miss ker has uh stepped down from the position um and no great surprise Kathleen saved us this evening so thank you very much we really appreciate you
you um at this time time I will open for public participation anything uh that a member of the public wants to State not including what's on the agenda there'll be time for that after the case comes forth but if there's anybody that has
anything else that they'd like to ask a question about or make a statement about seeing none oh okay sure just uh come up to the microphone and state your name and you don't have to State your address just your town can I um bring up
383 Bloomfield Avenue or do I have to wait um it's not on the agenda so okay on the agenda for memorialization tonight for okay yes um would you please state your name okay I can speak now then or wait
yes you can speak now of course uh Scott primer Verona okay um yes I like to bring up uh 383 Bloomfield Avenue that was uh V oted on last week the resolution um that is improperly
designated and invalid Under njsa 40a 12 A- 5D um I listen to the planner's report I listen to um uh discussions uh from the board and uh I don't does anybody on the
board know of uh a class action uh case or not a class action case a case law regarding Manga versus Township of West Orange it was 20123 Supreme Court decision it went
from Superior Court and uh manga was overruled it went to the appell court manga was overruled it went to the Supreme Court on a RIT and uh basically moranga was uh Victorious on that um it
basically said that um njsa 4A 12 A- 5D which was the same criteria that you guys had last week um was was not not valid what that said
was and I'll read it to you accordingly municipalities and redevelopers intain to rely upon njsa 4812 A- 5D to fulfill the ll's original purpose of improving
residents quality of life and spurring economic opportunities must be conent of the manga decision the parties must ensure that the municipal record retains substantial evidence of the two of two statutory criteria specifically the
municipal record must contain substantial evidence first one that the buildings or improvements located within the proposed Redevelopment area suffer from at least one of the following conditions dilapidation obsolesence overcrowding faulty Arrangement or
design lack of ventilation light and sanitary facilities excessive land coverage coverage delerious land use or obsolete layout and two that there is actual harm actual harm not presumed
harm but actual harm to the safety Health morals or welfare of the community resulting from the condition found to exist exist thus the municipal record must show cation between the condition and the actual harm the two
statutory requirements cannot be separated and the court found in reaching this holding the court noted that the property was still functional in use and attracting 150 visitors a day
the manga uh West Orange case had happened to do about do with a li Library the town the public library in the town it was a 7-year-old Library I believe and U
they uh uh categor they uh put it in for area of Redevelopment and the judge or the court the unan unanimous decision ruled for manga's favor I feel that in watching the video and reading the uh
hard copy transcript from the planner there is no testimony from the planner of actual harm for any category in criteria d as a matter of fact the planner you're
the planner in her in her letter in her plan um uh in her plan that she submitted red Redevelopment of this area is necessary to correct the concerns of safety welfare and detriment posed to to
the safety health of the community it's not actual detriment harm so it's an invalid invalid uh case from last invalid vote from last week because it doesn't meet
the requirements uh just bear with me due to new information that was presented tonight I actually back up two of the two of the members aren't here tonight Mr coody and uh there's another gentleman at the end can't member they
actually asked the planner one one gentleman asked the planner um about harms about a trailer and the planner said I she didn't understand the question and then he rephrased the question and he said was it he he moved
to something else but I believe that the planner was it's hard to believe that the planner did not know about this case case law especially the Supreme Court case law that was only two two years old it's going to be two years
old next month and uh and and it wasn't brought up due to the information that was presented tonight I request the board member to make a motion to reconsider the previous vote on resolution 20
24-1 147 of January 23rd 2025 and have a no vote on ton tonight's memorialization of Redevelopment 383 blomfield Avenue resolution as to circumvent any legal action thank
you sir sir yes you want me just to address that real quick and um the um the memorialization of the resolution is not an action of the board it simply is excuse me the passing of the resolution is a memorialization of the action so
the vote has already been taken the action cannot be nullified um by this board at this point the second thing is I didn't hear you consider subsection L of the um um uh rsis not the rsis excuse
me of the uh Redevelopment Act where um the board also voted that sub that the criteria subsection L that's H you mean I'm sorry H EXC me H is in the resolution I didn't hear you address that and the planner stated and she's correct sub uh that H cannot be
a standalone criteria absolutely okay it has to go with d and if you don't have a through G right H doesn't qualify okay and the um the other thing is that the manga case was the West Orange Public Library correct and the West Orange Public Library was an entirely different
situation um you know given the state of facts I know it was a different because there was public because it was sold and uh it didn't go to public bidding but if you read if you read the court documents of the case from it stated that has no they had no
ruling on that whatsoever had no no ruling on the bidding process whatsoever I'm very familiar with the case and then the last thing is it's interesting that you pointed out the extensive dialogue that the board had with the planner and the seriousness in which the board
considered whether to adopt this as an area needed Redevelopment in fact there were a no vote and I think that says something to there was a one vote one no vote there was a no vote correct and I think that says something to the fact that how the board um considered this considered it seriously and appropriately and wound up with their
vote okay I I happen to disagree um I I watched the video and um Mr coodi basically said I don't think there is harms he's getting into talking about harms and the chairperson said hey did you walk the site did you walk the site
he doesn't have to walk the site he can look at photographs and if there's no actual harm to to the public or the community you know that's that's what he was getting to and then he asked you about Greg should I walk the site and I
forget what I I can I forget what you said but you said don't forget this is smart growth it fills the smart growth well smart growth is is H is H right and but if you don't have the you can't have H no I understand and and that was considered
by the board but my my only point to make was that the board um the board took appropriate action and what I don't mean the vote was appropriate I mean took appropriate action by how seriously the board considered it this was not just um something that that people just
capitulated because they felt that they were supposed to it was something that the board took into serious consideration and voted that way that's I mean we'll agree to disagree but I just wanted to uh uh Point those things out okay now why cannot a board member
tonight make a motion to uh to uh uh to re revoke the previous vote because the vote the vote has already been taken and the the memorialization the resolution is simply is not the action itself the
memorialization uh the resolution is the memorialization of the action already taken okay so there's no vote tonight on memorialization no we're going to vote to memorialize the resolution okay and the memorializing the resolution is not a revocation if the resolution doesn't
pass it is not a revocation of the vote okay okay it would eventually have to be passed or I expect I I I would um um expect it would be it would not be um it would not be
um well I don't know I don't know what would happen if they if if there was not a resolution passed um but it certainly would not revoke or negate the vote now if the planner motion motion
that but that's right yeah but that's right that has not yes I'm sorry I I I thought you were talking I'm sorry no no I I understand we were just okay good the reason why I
bring it up is because the mayor had mentioned last week that this is great for the community great for the town I guess if you're I we're all taxpayers in town I guess I guess if you're a taxpayer it's not so great for the town because again tax exempt
properties we're taking away properties that make that produce tax to the town and giving taxes and properties pilot programs there's been no pilot in association with and we don't know that there will be a pilot associated with
this property totally separate issue I realize that just say Okay um and when you do give Pilots or when you do uh doesn't do that it when you scrap current zoning laws and you give Pilots
it EV eviscerates the pro the protection of competitive bidding to favored developers that work with the town okay well that that's that's you know talk I'm not trying to be I'm not trying
to be snide or anything talk to your Congressman about that because that's the law of the state of New Jersey that that the town can appoint a redeveloper under no bid contracts every town in the state can do that so um you know that's
just what the law is so the the manga decision has no uh uh predicate over this over this matter the Mangan decision was set on its facts and again that was a that that was Mr manga um I haven't read the case in a while but Mr
manga um um argued that the library was still in full use and um there was no reason to um to designate the library the Municipal Library in West Orange as an area needed Redevelopment by itself so I don't remember exactly um you know
what the fact what what what the court based their determination on the language that you said I do recall that there has to be some kind of actual harm but I believe it was actual harm in that because the the library was still in use
and had been in use for 100 or 100 100 years or whatever that that didn't meet that criteria but I think that was case specific I don't think that would well the township said there was asbest this there was this There Was You know the faade was thrwing off but it was
repaired it best this it didn't cause any harm to any any any residents using in the library MH and 383 Bloomfield Avenue is business that's in use I understand your argument I certainly understand your argument um you know I
appreciate your argument you've done your homework which you know I appreciate um but the board as I said you know the board's action was um was taken with due consideration of all of the facts it was not rubber stamped may
I just ask a question while this gentleman is still up here has there been any change in njac 40D 12 blah blah blah to re uh to basically
alter or uh better explain or to change or edit the law to specify what this gentleman has you know basically qualified not as the it hasn't been edit there was a
change maybe 10 or 15 years ago you're talking about the residential well I'm I'm talking about this Redevelopment law that he's saying that that a supreme the New Jersey Supreme Court basically changed how it may be
applied and my question is was there ever any change in the law to make qualifying as an area in need of Redevelopment a little bit more stringent not that I'm aware of anybody
no that that what he saying is correct that's standard okay and what was said in manga was just a recitation of it other case law going back so none of that's new that's just how it's always been interpreted okay so he's he's right
that's what the standard is the question is based on what were the facts in that case with facts in this case okay and you know there was a discussion by Tim trying to put that together right and there were questions trying to put that together so you we
applied the standard the question is is there enough evidence in the record that's what I'm trying to say good voice there was I'm sorry we passed the resolution right now it's just the memorialization stage and per the Redevelopment law all we're doing is
making a recommendation the Town Council has to uh decide whether or not to actually declare this an area in need of Redevelopment so we're done here as a planning board but the process okay because in the Malaga case the the the
the township was sued and the planning board was sued both both entities were Su because we set the record here this is where the hearing takes place we make the recommendation the Town Council looks at the report looks at our recommendation makes their determination
so it's kind of like a two-step process but two entities are involved because uh when she when she gave a report last week there was nothing in the in the report that said there was actual arm to the community and and and whatnot
so she has to meet that criteria she has to meet that criteria uh because that that she didn't meet that criteria it's not that she didn't it's not that she didn't meet it and it's not that well she didn't meet it and relate
it to you well you're using her expertise to to to form to form a decision correct she's the expert in the in the field and you're using her expertise to form an opinion to vote on on Cor obviously
her her her report and her recommendation certainly have an impact on people on the board without question that's why she's an expert that's why we'll qualify other people here tonight as experts to to appear on behalf of uh
of an applicant so I mean you know that that's that's why they're qualified as experts and that's why she's the Township's planner so you have to you know a a person making a decision can give as much weight as that person wants to the
expert opinion and you know you heard Mr coody said no and and the other board members I I also heard one Mr cassp I believe he seemed like he was going to go no and uh he asked he asked her he
goes I I don't see the harm to the to the planner he said I don't see I don't I agree with him I don't see the harm right I see what about this trailer that's on the property and he answered a question and
she said I don't understand the question and then he came oh well what about self-inflicted harms correct and then you told him that that would be a board of adjustment matter that would not be I don't remember the context but it would
be a d a d variance perhaps but no no you said it was an applic different type of application I can't remember everything no no no okay but and then we need to let this go if it's okay but the other thing you said about the harm and that's that's
what um Jason was was suggesting is that the manga case was focused on the harm okay and you keep saying you know this says there has to be harm there has to be harm but there are other there are other criteria that can be met so if
you're alleging harm then there has to be actual harm we were presented with with other facts that met other criteria of that subsection can you tell me what they were I don't recall off the top of my head but I know I mean if look at the resolution I think they're in the
resolution well I'm reading what what the court court uh decided that the Supreme Court and they said now this is for subsection D 5D says that the buildings or improvements located within the proposed
Redevelopment AA suffer from at least one of the following conditions dilapidation obsolescence overcrowding faulty Arrangement or design lack of ventilation light sanitary facilities excessive land coverage deleterious land
use or obsolete layout and that two that there is actual harm not presumed harm to the safety they have to go hand in hand that you cannot separate the two well the the obsolute layout I I I I believe there was a testimony or or of
our expert that it was it was a dangerous condition because of the uh Ingress and egress if I I recall hearing that wasn't that wasn't on there well anyway you know I I think we understand your I understand your point um there's nothing the board can do this evening um
about revoking the um the approval the approval was voted on the memorial the now they can vote not to approve the resolution and you know quite honestly I have to look into that about what would happen if if the resolution um did not
pass but um furthermore what we came to last month when this uh hearing occurred um even if the board had voted not to
recommend that this was an air in need of Redevelopment to the council the council could have overrode us and made that determination without our recommendation okay so what Jason said is absolutely correct this is no longer
in our hands it's now going to be in Council hands or it go ahead please mayor it's already been in the hands of the council so the Council on February 3rd during a regular meeting did approve um and resolve that this 383 Bloomfield Avenue was a um an area of need of
Redevelopment so the council's already acted on this so regardless of what the planning board does at this point the council's acted um I I do hear what you're saying obviously there's some research to be done we rely on our attorney as as our expert in land use um
but at the same point what I heard you talking about was concerns about the good for the town and the tax implications and things like that that has yet to be determined so my recommendation is that you now follow the council procedure on this as as the
plans are still in their infancy for this project the council hasn't even seen any kind of drawings or anything at this point as far as what this building may look like what the the plans are all that's happened at this point is that the piece of property itself the parcel
has been declared in area need of Redevelopment so my recommendation would be if your concerns are about the structure about what's happening um and about the potential tax implications no discussion on a pilot has even happened at this point as far as I know Mr um
SUV's the same room that I am right but I always look just to make sure but the other piece that's really important to note is whether or not this is declared an area of need of Redevelopment it can be redeveloped so you know the and one of the the benefits of having an area of
need of Redevelopment that I brought up in the last meeting is it gives the township Council the ability to actually have more of a of a say in what that property looks like like and actually maximize the benefit to the community so
I I want to put out that premise as why this is advantageous and I think in my honest opinion we've known each other for a while um that the area need of Redevelopment is the best in the best interest of the town because it allows us more of that negotiating ability
allows us to help build a uh a better vision for that property but I do encourage you Mr primier to come to our meetings um come to the council meetings we have multiple public comment times there as well and share your thoughts because I can tell you the one thing about the brona township councils we
listen to every word that comes across and for those who watch our meetings regularly you will note that we often make policy changes based on what we hear so I really encourage you to show up um as you have tonight and but I think at this point the the proper venue
for your comments is the township Council and as we move forward so putting it out there I don't think your concerns at this point are over or not going to be acted upon or whatever but do come out to the council meetings and share your opinions with the entire group because I'm only one council
member out of five I appreciate that and my other concern was that approving this sets a precedent quite possibly that you know the Redevelopment area goes from Monclair at the calwell right on Bloomfield Avenue pretty much isn't it
designed I mean not the Bloomfield Avenue Corridor has been declared an area in need of Rehabilitation which is a very different procedure um and it's not an an area leader fre development has to be dealt with on a partial by paral basis okay
because that's my own concern that have uh uh rest uh apartment row right down right downfield that is that is not consistent with the master plan right because if you look at towns that did that little Brooklyn where you don't see sunlight and you got four or five
stories and you know the buildings are right up against the the curb line I wholeheartedly agree with you on that I do too okay well again I want to thank you for your time I'm sorry for going over on my time and uh I want to thank
everybody for volunteering I know you guys put in a lot of time thank you thank you sir thank you does anybody else have a anybody else that wants to come up and ask a question or make a
comment okay um I am closing public comment at this moment um we are whoops meeting minutes from January 23rd 2025 I'll move them um well couple of
the edits were made yes that you don't know well I'm from what I understand they were however I'm just looking at page five and it lists under the vocal vote um Dr kth and I believe he is not doctor he is Mr so I
will I will make that edit you can leave that he'll appreciate it well I I can make I will make the edit back on that okay just so long as the the vote with the addit was the the people
that abstained were abstentions from the meeting minutes not from Miss kester's um uh appointment yes so okay and then uh I think doc changed his death okay
any any other changes okay um the mayor moves can I get a second second Vice chair fresky seconds all members that were present I
I anybody abstain two abstentions Miss Parker and Mr Lily okay the minutes pass um moving along resolution 20253 recommendation of Redevelopment uh
area of Redevelopment for 383 Bloomfield Avenue um can I get a motion to memorialize that vote so move uh mayor mayor makes the motion can I get a
second second Mr fresy Seconds um roll call vote Please Mr Heyman hi Mr deal yes manager Sullivan
yes mayor timbor yes Vice chair fesi yes chair Pearson yes motion pass uh resolution passes second resolution is extension for our planning board attorney through December 31st because
of the change of vote that um so his term extends with our terms extension can I get a motion motion second motion by Mr Heyman second by the
mayor uh roll call vote please Mrs Parker I Mr yes Mr Heyman I Mr deal yes manager yes mayor tamboro
yes yes chair PE yes and finally of that resolution passes cig congratulations um and you're stuck with us for an extra six months um and finally planning board
dates set for the rest of the year once we do this we'll send a memo to Jen Kieran so that she can get them group them together with all of her publication um so does anybody object to
any those are that those are the typical meeting dates the fourth Thursday of every month except for November and then the first Thursday of December can I get a motion motion Mr Heyman makes the motion I'll
second do we need a roll call vote for this all members that approve the meeting dates through the end of the year I any anyone not approve any extensions motion passes and the
resolution passes um can we get a quick Mr hon would you like to give us an update on the master plan subcommittee meeting that we had earlier this month please uh sure so we um met with professionals and uh Township
employees uh February 5th uh to discuss the vacant land adjustment um and go over some of the proposals that we've received um we are getting uh revised data and mapping I saw the
email that came through from Dan uh last week but I didn't actually get a chance to read it I did not uh and then we have a follow-up meeting um in beginning of March so we're plugging along but as you know uh
we do have a deadline of the end of June so we should be um getting the draft uh going after we finish our meeting in March uh and we have the vacant land adjustment I guess not finalized but um
to a point where we have our Target number that we're going to work off of um and then we should be getting a draft to everybody to review oh sorry we should be getting a draft for the Board review um I'd have to guess but I think we're
going to shoot for May mhm so that's that's when you you'll start seeing some subsi um draft documents mhm any questions yeah I have a question um I
know this topic came up in the council meeting is the properties at the end of Brookside in Prospect I know that those were um put as um Green Acres was that part of the discussion yep those are part of the
discussion um you know we're working through all that is part of the um vacant land adjustment okay you guys got to be on your mics a little better get them up there um because can hear um do we have any timeline for when those
particular properties are going to be uh properly registered or certified as Green Acres properties Ross get on them Rossy we've provided updated documents to Green Acres
uh several times over the past year uh there have been some punch list items that Green Acres has requested from us so it we're a little bit at the mercy of Green Acres schedule uh however the documents that we've submitted to Green Acres are consistent with our um open
space plan so I I think we have Solid Ground to rely upon the combination of what we've already submitted in addition to our open space plan that exists so we are working with Green Acres diligently to try to address that as quickly as possible I guess I think what I guess maybe a
looming concern is if those properties aren't quote unquote properly registered before the midsummer date when our affordable housing issue is sort of due
will that have an impact on the available vacant land uh in the town or will it pretty much be put to bed that those properties are in process and they're
not developable do we know how that determination might be made those properties were acquired with the deed restrictions naming them as open space property so they the only impact that it would have is that they are not on the
on the plan for development and they are accounted as open space Parcels but will the DCA see it that way I think that's a good question it's not up to DCA at this point correct they gave us the number that was a recommendation it's really depends on if
fair share wants to push it okay well fair share see it that way and it it we don't know I think that's just I I think we have enough evidence on our side but it's it's part of our ongoing discussions of the next months to continue to to solidify our housing plan
uh through our our efforts in the coming months any other questions okay thank you both um what do we got
ah um new business case 25 20251 60 pumpt and Avenue block 807 lot 16 in the C2 Zone would you please come on
up good evening Madam cherle Council name is G the firm is G [Music] tobacco would you like to proceed an open or you have some preliminaries that you do do uh Mr gel thank you uh Madam
chair the application has been deemed complete notice is proper um the applicant can proceed Mr G I'm sorry can you just put on your microphone your microphone I'm sorry I thought I was so loud didn't matter
thank you sorry madam chair lady members of the board council's name as I said is Robert gassio and Fir is gasio PCO One Bowl and drive in West Orange I represent the applicant in this matter s AR realy LLC my client is the owner 60 Pompton a and
is seeking to convert commercial tenant space to Medical tenant space at this time approximately 33% of the building remains vacant and my client has a current medical tenant pops therapy who
would like to add an additional 2,870 Square ft of space the application however is to allow my client to seek out other medical tenants for the remaining vacant space which is
approximately if you take the total including the section pop therapy wants to take about 11,600 ft can you repeat that number I'm sorry sure excuse me pop therapy is already there as a tenant
they would like to add 2,870 square feet to their space the total space that's my client is seeking to get approval for to rent to Medical is
11,600 that includes the pops therapy 11,600 square feet 116 116 thank you as the board knows the parking requirement for commercial space is one
space for 200 square fet no medical parking no commercial space non-medical office space depending office space office space def in a mixed use
building such as this with medical and office changes Bas based upon on total size the building um no on the particular use within the building well I thought there were two uses medical and non-medical yes so it's
a mixed use building and if your non-medical use is if you're non-medical uses general office space then the general office space under 10,000 square ft is six people
per per thousand not four and the next next is five people through th next 10,000 is five yes but you and then the next is four but I'm trying to deal with a common number here so I'm dealing with
the one space for every 200 square ft of gross floor area and medical is one space for every 180 square fet of gross floor area based on my calculation that's
about 1.1% more space if you if we change the entire building to Medical we'd require additional seven spaces also in 2004 there was a zoning application involving this property
where the approval was conditioned on a variance being required in order to allow further medical use within the 60 Pompton building the witnesses you'll hear from tonight are Dr Samir Patel of
s realy LLC Joe sturba the architect and Joe stiger the traffic expert in Planet also available if necessary is Richard Cross of Pops therapy which is a physical therapy
provider for children with disabilities I'd like to call my first witness Dr Shamir Patel here better Dr Patel would you raise your right hand please do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth I do can you state your uh
full name and address for the record Samir Patel the address is 266 King George Road Warren New Jersey 0759 thank you can you please put your microphone on yes thank you
doctor are you a member of s I am a principal of s yes and when was that property purchased by S the 60 pompon was purchased almost 2 years ago on March 8th 2023 and at the time of the purchase
what was the percentage of the building that was occupied by tenant medical or non-medical at the time of purchase a little bit over 50% 50 5% of the building was occupied and what have you done to try
to rent that bacon space we have um retained the services of a commercial real estate agent through wer Realtors to try to um lease the remaining vacant space in the building and is there an existing tenant
who would like to take additional space yes Ops therapy who is the current uh attendant would like additional space in uh to what they currently have and how much additional space approximately are they looking to take uh they are
approximating I believe 2000 I forget the exact I told you 2870 does that sound about right that's right now do you have any other prospects for medical or non-medical tenants in the
building um throughout the two years that we've owned the building all of the inquiries for leasing have been medically related whether they be Dental rehab um specialty offices all have been
medical we have not received any uh non-medical inquiries for the space and the remaining 8,000 plus square fet that would remain vacant should we get approval to allow pops go in there you're looking to have the
right to leash that to Medical should a medical then to come along yes absolutely no further questions is anybody from the board have any questions for Mr Patel I have a
question Mr Patel I understand you bought the building in 2023 yes were you aware of the um of the I I guess the Restriction of
expansive expanding the use of medical use in the building due to parking not fully okay when you purchased the building was the current configuration as it is today according
to your application the configuration meaning meaning the um square footage breakdown of use like layout of the building no no I don't I'm not talking about the architectural layout I'm talking about the configuration of use
percentage wise or square footage wise that was presented in your application by your architect and your uh traffic engineer from two years ago it's about the same no yeah yeah so it's the same nothing is nothing has changed okay
because the the resolution from 2004 stated that the applicant or the prior owner from you was given a
waiver for a percentage of parking which we'll get into I'm sure when Mr stiger comes forward um for the for a singular use from one medical uh business to expand to 10,200 Square ft
and as we can plainly on your application they're already using 13,000 I'm sorry 13,855 it's kind of gone beyond the square footage allowance that was given back then
um so that's one thing and also on your application you asked to use 6,500 additional Square footed feet now it's basically doubled that was a mistake typo and the correct information is on the plans and was on the there's
and your engineer did observe that correct information okay but the board might need a little explanation of that because we we read everything so I'm just asking the number is what your architect
has on his plans or what the the number is what the architect has on the pledge because the the traffic engineer has the entire second floor going medical whereas the architect has
1990 square feet staying general office use which is it we are seeking to have all that be Med at the present time we only have one medical tenant who's taking 2860 s ft I
I'm asking if the you there's conflicting information on their documents so I'm asking you as the owner you want the entire second floor to be medical all 11,000 or so Square ft we we currently have one
non-medical tenant that takes up approximately 2,000 square ft we would like the ability to lease the entire building if so needed to be medical okay the entire building thank you any other questions
okay have you had any inquiries from non-medical potential we have not years of trying to rent it two years yeah no inquiry is that correct correct I have no further questions thank you
wel oh wait does anyone from the public have any I'm so sorry that's okay does anybody from the public have any questions for the building owner please come to the mic state your name and your [Music]
town Paul petrangeli 9 Martin Road Verona New Jersey um I actually live right behind your building um so my question to you is as an owner um what are you going to do as you multiply the
tenants now what are you going to do to take care of that building because right now I have photos if anyone would like to see them of your trash uh your dumpster with garbage can or garbage bags piled up next to them and they were
there uh January 27th and I have a photo of them there last night um your lights on your building all blank I have video of that they two of them have been fixed over about a year but the one on the building blinks non-stop uh I sit in my
living room and I can right out my window I just watch it if anybody in my house had a seizure it's because of your lights so I want to know what are you going to do to maintain your building as you raise the tenants because you also have all your
landscapers everything gets blown into the creek which is about 3et behind your fence at the most so you have a creek there and you have no curbing or anything so everything goes right there and there's actually police reports of me getting an argument probably before you owned the building but or you know
cuz you're what two years you said yes cor so uh the landscapers I believe they are the same but they keep they blow the leaves over the fence or they pile them up behind the dumpster which eventually goes into the creek which blocks the creek which creates flooding so my question to you is what are you going to
do to maintain so I completely understand your concerns with regards to maintaining the property and making sure it doesn't affect your house and your property I would C certainly welcome any feedback from you or the the surrounding
neighbors of what issues you have so we can address it properly okay and I certain I didn't know about the blinking lights but you brought that up to me today we'll address it and we'll try to take care of it I I certainly am interested in maintaining the building for prospective tenants because if
that's the issue they're not going to come lease from us either but we would like to be you know a good neighbor and provide you at least with some semblance of of good maintenance and landscaping for the property okay absolutely thank you and I have notified about once a
month uh the tenants in the building and the people that work late nights and they have said their landlord is eh laate on things thank you I want to point out that the questions although I didn't object and wound object so at this time have
nothing to do with the application itself but I want we want to hear what the the neighbors have to say to try to alleviate the problems well I I I may not agree with that because the problem is the parking lot the there is a
problem with the parking lot you want basically a variance for parking and he was talking about the condition of the parking lot as it is today before the use is expanded before that space might be rented interested in hearing what they have to say I just want to point
out that is not relevant to the application that's all we disagree I I have some followup questions along that line I'm sorry ma'am but before you you ask your questions I want to just continue on that topic uh Dr Patel um
your existing medical tenant does does that tenant have their own medical their own medical waste pickup they they have their own medical waste pickup and then the general waste is um in the dumpster in the parking lot
right and there are separate areas for the medical waste versus the dumpster waste medical waste wouldn't be outside it's it would it would be picked up from within the premises of their office interior yes okay and um do they
contract on their own or um is the land respons cont their own medical waste disposal uh what about the general trash collection that is from the building that's from from our end MH how often is um garbage
pickup I off the top of my head I couldn't tell you exactly it's we have a contract with a disposer I think they're required to do that I I'm not going to put myself in a hole and tell you something that's not true I just provide
the edge yeah okay yeah if you could um yes I'm so sorry all right go ahead I've heard you both discuss having one Medical ten but it's true that you have more than one tenant you're you
have one tenant who's interested in expanding their office but you have more than one medical tenant in this facility absolutely there there are two medical tenants in the building currently and one non-medical tenant okay um and the other medical tenant is not the physical
therapy center that's schwager Dermatology right correct are you aware of how many medical providers schwier has in that office space no so I think it's over a dozen um have you been to the the
uh that facility during the day when schwier is operating I've seen it on occasion yes okay and have you noticed the state of the parking lot when schwier is is open and operating the state as in how how full it is
how I've observed it during the day when yeah I've seen it okay all right thank you I'll I'll res my comments for later I mean one other question and then I'm so sorry the um you bring up a dumpster um
that dumpster is not shown on the plans how many parking spots does that dumpster take up two I couldn't tell you off the top of my head that a reasonable a reasonable assumption would be two spots okay the traffic expert can yes but I'm asking the owner because he just
testified about it understand thank you I understand we'll we'll get back to it sir um and finally I took a a spin through snow removal seems to be an issue because there's really no place to put it what
do you do when you need all those parking spots where you put all the snow because I mean obviously it melted over the last two days but right it was piled up in basically the entire rear of your lot which was all parking spots yeah so
I I think what we need to do with our snow removal is when we have an increased amount of cars in that space contract our snow removal not just to push the snow but to actually remove the snow so the parking spots are open okay
they may not have they may not be able to do that all at once but you have to remove the snow so to make the full allotment of spots available to the attendants it just also does cause concern because that snow melt with all the salt and the chemicals goes right
into that stream understood and that's actual physical removal it's actually against the law now like salt storage and salt uh waste is
just understood just not okay it's so yeah I'm just saying that that snow removal thing really has to change especially because I'm sure you use salt to sure that your clients don't fall yes
okay um EXC me one second I'm getting myself get if this application were to be approved you would agree as a condition of approval that future snow removal would be uh would be private and would be carded off
yes I'm so sorry okay with that all that being said I had no plans on speaking but now y'all gave me a whole bunch more to say Deborah Curry right here Verona this this is question of the Apple okay uhhuh deah
Curry grew up here in Verona so I'm here okay two things I'm there also I'm further in the middle I can see all the stuff everything he discussed I can see except the pictures with the trash and the garbage that's obviously been there
for a minute so that means one of two things it's probably taking two spaces and the dumpster is not big enough obviously if there's trash behind it big bags number two what's in them medical waste is that what we're dealing with
right by the Brook and I'm going tell you right now I've seen your guys because I get on my landscapers don't you throw anything in that Brook you take it away you put it in a bag they I hear your blowers they're not only blowing leaves they're blowing garbage back there miss Curry yes just ask a qu
ask the question I'm saying this because I need to know how he's going to make sure it's going to change you can say it's going to change it's up to them to do the garbage but is there any followup to make sure they're doing it properly is there going to be any followup to make sure they're going to take care of
this stuff because I can see it from my from my debt M Cur that's a question really of the board and not of the witness so the answer is yes there are there are procedures where um people in town hall can go out and inspect um especially if it's a condition of
approval of an application then um there is procedures where um Miss Mish um can make sure that U conditions in approvals are being met so up to you not him I mean it's up to him but you follow up
sure not to the board but but people employed by the town that's what I wanted to know thank you [Music] Tony Fabrizio in Verona um nice to meet you likewise I
didn't know that you just bought this in 23 uh it's finally nice to meet you my mother over there who's hello 87 years old she she's been there 54 years we all been there we've been raised over there
nice house nice neighbors uh your property has a Tree on the corner of our garage in the back it's the biggest tree I've ever seen it's huge I have pictures over here growing mold on the top a lot of
droppings it's leaning the roots are coming up out of the ground going into the garage and breaking up the the the floor in the garage um we've been trying to get the owner to cut the tree down and possibly
you know put some brushes bushes over there or whatever Mr fer do you have a question with regard to the application the application about the parking spots I don't really have a problem but I want to see what you as a neighbor are
going to do about the tree that is right behind my house that's basically the question this is not the Forum the tree has isiv is does the tree have any impact on Park this is not the forum for for for that the only thing I was thinking
because 60 Claremont Avenue where my mother lives is where the driveway that comes out um to Pompton Avy from their property I was curious to see if that was going to be expanded to have additional areas over
there but I looked in the plans and I didn't see that so I think it might be okay there's no plans to make any changes to to the driveway going up correct again I in this public form I want to make sure you understand Mr Fabo
there's not going to be a driveway from Pompton Avenue business coming onto a residential Street Claremont Avenue that's not happening there is absolutely no access between those two streets there's homes lining the street but the
property is a little bit um it's it's not the application before us I appreciate not a professional guy like you guys are we're not professional we got the letter two weeks ago and I said you know what we haven't met this guy yet I didn't know anything about it so I'm glad we came I'm glad that we met
and if you ever want to come over we'll talk I appreciate the invitation thank you thank you for listening thank you Tony hello rodina Hudson I live in Verona uh you said you've owned the property for two years I've own my property for 2 years I'm on 17 Martin in
regards to this request to expand the parking spaces and we've brought up the issue of the garbage bins now currently every or not every morning but frequently there is a loud boom between 4: and 5: a.m. it is very disruptive to
the community now if you're going to increase these parking spaces and increase the amount of business occupants what will be done to mitigate that not we understand they're not increasing the number of spaces okay okay there will be no The Proposal
contains no changes to the parking lot at all okay what the applicant is seeking is to allow a medical use in the building to expand a medical use which requires under our ordinance more
parking spaces they can't provide more parking spaces so they're asking for relief from the ordinance and we will hear testimony that the applicant believes will support their application so it has the the the parking lot will remain exactly the same okay it's more
so the occupancy the occupy the the the type of occupancy the request is for permission to allow more medical uses because medical use they need that permission because medical uses historically
utilize more parking spaces so to justify their variance they have to show that there will be no impact on the parking okay but it will not there will be no change in layout okay okay all
right thank you okay any other questions from the board to this witness any other questions from anybody in the public of this particular witness questions that have nothing to do with
trees growing in your garage I'll take I'll take the picture thank you got it okay thank you sir thank you Joe CLE please yes I'm so sorry have a
preference um yeah we can't see that um if you bring it right here I might be able to read any of this is a plan yeah exactly the only difference there's absolutely no way but I mean are
you the architect he is okay um yeah do you swear or affirm that the testimony you're about gives the truth yes I do have you state your name and your business address Joseph sturba s RBA 44 Redman Place
totalan New Jersey Mr sta what is your occupation I'm an architect how long practicing in the field of architecture 52 years what school did you gradua with degreed you obtained I have a degree a bachelor of architecture from Penn
State and have you testified previously before zoning boards yes I have and planted GS yes and you're a licensed architect of the state of New Jersey at this time yes I am Madam charene I submit to Mr Ser qualified as an expert in the field of architecture I think we've seen you around before
yes yeah any any okay thank you Mr sta would you describe the existing site yes uh as you see here this is the same as the site plan drawing that you have in your packet the only difference is that have applied color can you
please take that microphone out of the a little louder thank you okay this is the same drawing that you have in front of you in your packet the drawing sp- 1.1 and the only difference is that we've applied color to make a distinction of the building footprint
versus the site the site is located in the northwesterly side of Pompton Avenue uh it is approximately 81,00 and some Square fet in area and from Pompton it slopes
down towards the rear of the property the building itself is a three-level building the rear portion of the building is partially underground uh and the front portion of the building facing Pompton Avenue
presents two stories the building is a brick-faced building throughout and uh it's fairly common looking type of pro building in this area what's the approximate total square footage of the building sir it's about
32,500 feet and do your does your client plan to add anything to this building no there are no plans for any additions or alterations to the building at all and can you just for the benefit of the board describe how briefly how the first
floor is occupied the first floor is occupied by uh see first floor is occupied by a Dermatology practice which you can see shaded in Orange on this plan and the remainder of
the first floor is currently unoccupied and can you give us a brief uh statement as the second floor or the second floor has the second floor has a large
unoccupied area which is shown in the yellow orange color here and it also has a non-med use and accounting firm which is shown here in green and where is the current tenant
who's seing to span located pop Ser they're located in what we are calling the basement the lowest area towards the rear of the building would you review that please that is this portion of the building in the orange color and it
takes up all of the office space on that level the remaining portions of that level are unexcavated underground or storage area mechanical equipment can you explain what 2860 ft the pop therapy is looking to
add to occupy yes they're looking to occupy space on the first floor of the building the ground floor the area on drawing
a1.1 which is indicated in blue and would include uh common space as well are you familiar with the way the waist is disposed of there were some questions about the waist the the
medical waste is no I mean medical waste that's done I assume the medical waste is done privately by the tend is that correct yes as to the building which there is a dumpster located at the rear portion of the building the West portion
in that corner of the building which is furthest from uh Pompton Avenue um it does not occupy occupy any parking spaces it is got an area into onto its own in that in that
location is that dumpster area screened I big pardon dumpster area is there screening no it's not you have an opportunity to review the Consultants report or the reports provided to the board yes I did and
there's a report from the environmental commission I believe yes uh and did you have an opportunity to take a look at that I did and can you comment on the three entries on the first page yeah so the first the first entry I must apologize it's a scribner's error uh we
do not have a 200t landscape buffer uh as you may well know uh information is copied from one project to another and to copy the format that uh was for a different building in fact an industrial building in another town so the real
answer is that there is a 15 ft minimum requirement we have a 20 foot uh buffer on one side of the property I have no further questions that is witness Mr G young can we just for the record um may not be necessary
but can we Mark these since they're colorized wer subm want to make it what is it A1 a yeah yes please so we'll call sp11 A1 yep A-1 1.0
A2 A- 1.1 A3 and 8.12 A4 [Music] thank you than okay as I indicated I have no further questions to
tr questions from anybody on the board yes sir for pops therapy with the expansion are they looking to move the entire operation
from the basement level to the new area or is it just sort of a a what's the word I'm looking like like a satellite section how was that planning for the best of my knowledge is an expansion of their
operation if it do you happen to know if it might would it be contiguous in the sense of are are you are are there any plans to make changes to the building in the sense of
um adding sort of like uh a different type of stairwell to go easier from you know from one area to the next that type of thing I would suppose that would depend on whether this application is approved there's a pops therapy
representative here and if necessary at the conclusion of Mr steiger's testimony I can put them on the witness stand to answer a couple of questions sorry legal advice told me to not talk tonight never
works um so the answer to his question was that they're going to be on separate floors are they in the same area of the building is that you was kind of trying to ask will they be connected by a stairwell or an elevator that would be dependent upon whether this application
is approved uh we haven't done anything to so the answer for right now is no no okay that kind of what you were get okay I'm so sorry I didn't hear the answer because legal was telling me not to ask questions I have two questions
um first of all I I may just not have understood where you were saying this dumpster is is is it in the section of your plot plan and the back corner by the Brook that shaded out is not having parking or on the
other side that's not shaded the dumpster is located in the rear corner of the property not the striped area but as you look at the plan the upper left corner of the site
Okay so the second there's there's no proposal to change the layout of the parking spaces at all correct yes that's correct did you evaluate whether there's
any way within this to add any spaces um for example by the type of thing where they do you know small cars only and things like that was that a value as whether anything like that's even an
option I would defer that to Mr steer's testimony he's the expert paring the traffic expert engineer is the next witness he can answer your question but obviously if we were to add
anything it would increase the impervious area so there'd be a circumstance I wasn't asking about adding impervious area I was asking about layout of the parking spaces within the existing area ask Mr stiger
you will be my next gr well I I I just wish you wouldn't put Reigns on the board members that are asking questions of the expert who they think could answer those I putting re on anybody I just suggested there's an expert witness who could answer our questions
um okay I'm sorry continue or any um it's all right we can wait for the next okay if the architect didn't look at that then we didn't look at it okay Jesse you have any
questions Jay no doc well my my put your mic on my question gets to when you put in medical and you have a bigger turnover and the number of parking spaces that's my my biggest concern are
there going to be adequate parking spaces or I saw the numbers and they said one number here and then a larger number here when you do the medical and how do you accomplish handling
that currently there are 98 uh striped parking spaces on the property and I would defer again to Mr stiger in his analysis of the adequacy of that parking is is that is is 98 when you add
the med the new medical the new uh let's assume that we get some new tenants uh who are medical is are are the parking spaces enough for what the traffic that's going to come in to the facility
again U I believe that Mr stiger has analyzed that and can give you a definite answer we have a traffic guide coming up next okay dait for traffic okay uh can you just provide an explanation on how the existing parking
lot if there's Reserve spaces for uh occupant or employees of these spaces and how that might change based upon how the building itself is being amended to be or being proposed to be amended there's additional spaces being reserved
for this new occup occupancy face that would be uh up to Dr Patel to determine with his tenants what that Arrangement might be the spaces that are designated now uh I can't recall exactly how many
are few in number uh for personnel within the building uh I do not know that there would be any additional spaces designated as reserved so to speak Mr assal that obviously Joe stiger is an engineer traffic engineer you and
I don't need to be interfering with your question based on the concerns of the chair but he'll be better able to answer your questions understood I I I was just curious if the architect had any recommendations based upon the amendments to the building if there was
a a correlation between the amendments to the building and what Reserve spaces that might translate to for additional employees in those spaces but if that's reserved for the traffic engineer we'll hear a testimony on that then I'm I'm happy to listen and wait for that also
if necessary I can put the proposed tenant on they have a unique uh medical operation it's not one that sees patients on a regular basis they take care of young children with
disabilities mayor reserve my question to the trust okay um I do have a a question concerning your U buffer comment um what is the buffer on the side of the
building that abuts the backyards of Claremont Avenue for the most part there is no buffer at that loc for the most part there is no buffer at that location until one gets closer to Pompton Avenue in which case it varies it's it's um
somewhat wider than 20 ft and you stated that in the rear it's 20 ft the buffer in the rear is 20 did you say that or yes did I miss here yes I believe it is 20 ft
um and of that 20 ft do you know how far from the parking area the brook is how many feet from the parking curb line that that does vary
but it uh in my estimation when I looked at the site it varies from something I would imagine about 6 feet to more like 10 or 12T as the brook meanders is that based on field observation I I'm just saying you're saying that it
that it has a curve in it or something yeah the brook meanders I I'm sorry I didn't hear that Brook meanders okay thank you yeah thank you um yeah and again going back to the
environmental commission's letter there was a recommendation to actually plant trees in that area to help with the runoff and to to
actually clean up the runoff that's coming off of that site because basically whatever the percentage of that site that is paved is all motor vehicle pavement and oil and whatever
leaks off of a car as well as the road chemicals are just going right into that water because obviously the property pitches towards the brook so I don't know if any mitigation tactics were discussed with your client or when you
talked about the buffer and maybe um accentuating the buffer we're not proposing any changes at this time okay that answers my question thank you um can I open where there any other
questions by the board at this moment you can come back okay I would like to open to the public to ask questions of Mr stiger I'm sorry Mr sorry my bad St St
it's so close my bad can you um take that take that microphone please yeah just take it Paul patr Verona New Jersey um my question one of
my questions also has to deal with the buffer um the buffer new state is 20 feet in the backyard um and the brook meanders I just want the record to show that the brook is less than 2 feet right
up against the fence do you have a question or you're not t you're noty what I want to know is um basically if the client expands into medical use for the second floor uh a the hours because
there is no landscape buffer so I want to know about the lights because your whole building is lit up so my question is uh a the hours and if there's no landscape buffer like you know I just don't want to see a whole building that's what I see
so if you're on the second floor that's my question you want to know if the hours are going to change sir is it I want know if it's after 5:00 because since there's no landscape that's required uh you're not I want to know building I'm
be a to see all night like I do now are the hours pops going to go later what time do they run to we're going to the second FL now inad on no side is it it's repairing Z supposed to
have so so the gentleman was saying that there is a repairing it is repairing because it is basically Wetlands right there um it has nothing to they're not changing the design they're not proposing to change and the
configuration nor the um they're asking for a waiver for parking so they're asking for a variance for parking but the other issues are existing they're not asking to add parking spaces or to put in parking
spaces that don't meet the minimum dimensions of our ordinance did you add parking spaces cuz it said it started at 78 and now all of a sudden it went to 97 and tonight during this discussion any did you restripe to come up with more
because it said 78 and now it's 97 not I thought it said 97 on your plans 98 spaces I believe 97 on your plans I think there are 98 spaces well there is some re there's a note
about restriping for Ada but that's not CH Park there's a note on the plans about restriping for the Ada spaces but that's not changing the rest we didn't restrip okay if we get the approval we're looking to restrip okay but that's not going to change the parking not
Chang okay the um tenant as disabled children and that's why a couple additional disabled spes so believe the plan it says that it'll reduce it by
one adding adding the um additional Ada space it says will reduce the overall number of Spaces by one so so down by one What's the total I
think it's said down to 97 from 987 correctly I'll let I thought it was 98 I wouldn't insist I'll let my traffic expert I think your traffic expert has that on table four but I won't I won't
um speak for him um go go ahead I'm so sorry um there was something I just had right now you have 78 spots and
you're not striping until until or unless is that what the deal is right here I'm not testifying the traffic expent will be next well I know well then can you tell me are there 78 spots currently and then you're you're looking to restripe for 97 or 98 currently 98
spots that I counted this afternoon okay so what needs to be restriped if anything the only restriping was where there are currently um handicap spaces that are indicated with the blue stripes
and the symbol for handicap parking we are re proposing reconfiguring them to provide more space between those parking spaces for better access to those spaces that's all those spaces will remain four
spaces okay so that configuration that you show of the handicap spaces you have two spots that are immediately adjacent to one another right um and there is no
space there are out outboard of those spaces that's current or that's proposed that's proposed that's proposed no he's right so two spots that are
proposed are adjacent to one another yes so how does the driver of the car in the second spot get out of his car there are access aisles on either side outboard of those two
spaces yes but only on the passenger side on one of those spaces on the driver's side on another of those so how does the driver get out of the second spot it's not doesn't S mean wheelchair
okay somebody with a handicap yep somebody who walks with a limp or something like that that's configuration any other speak up any other questions of this witness any other questions from the public for this witness questions about
his testimony please thank you thank you Mr Mr sters Mr tiger would you raise your right hand please you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give you the truth yes I do could you state your
name and address for there yes my name is Joseph stiger s AI g a r business address is 245 Main Street in Chester New Jersey Mr ster what is your occupation I'm a professional engineer
um licensed in the state of New Jersey and also professional planner licensed in the state of New Jersey I specialize in traffic engineering for the most part but I I do site engineering as well um and professional planning as as I stated could you briefly what from what school
did you graduate uh NGIT New Jersey Institute of Technology uh quite a few years ago and um I also been an Adent professor of traffic engineering at NGIT and have you testified before numerous planning boards and zoning boards yes and before this board as well
and we accept that as an expert in the field of engineering and planning on each and every occasion yes Madam chair lady I submited Mr stiger qualified as a planner and a traffic engineer and engineer unfortunately I did not I not
Dan and I did not go to NJIT but you may continue okay thank you Mr tiger would you just briefly describe the location of the property well we're on a state highway um and um we have a
four-lane roadway our at our site um it's an existing building uh with parking spaces uh there are 98 spaces I know the original plans U Mr serice plans had 97 I counted them he counted
them um your engineer in the latest report also finds 98 spaces so I'm I'm pretty sure we got 98 spaces on the site currently and as proposed there's no change in the number of parking spaces that are that are being provided the
only minor change as Mr Sera had pointed out is the restriping to make the handicap spaces ADA Compliant with federal law and that's the only uh the only change really the only change on the exterior of the building at all and are there any change there's been
discussion about drainage any any changes planned to the drain no increase in impervious cover no changes in grading on the site um no so the answer to that is no no changes to the drainage at all any changes to the Ingress and egress to the site no not at all and can
you just briefly discuss the proposal before the board yes um so this building has broken down into uh medical and non-medical office uh in addition to that there are some common spaces
storage and stairways bathrooms and and and so forth um the breakdown of the building currently um is about um 67% occupied so about 2/3 of the square
feet are occupied currently and of that 67% there's about 2,000 square fet actually 1990 1,990 of non-medical uh occupancy that's the um uh the accountant and uh in addition to
that there's 13, 85 square ft of medical that is occupied uh on the building uh in addition to that there is non-medical vacant space will call it uh I call it non-medical but it's vacant space so
it's about 2/3 1/3 um occupied and and vacant on the on the site would you describe the not give a little more detail as to where the parking is there's been a lot of talk about the parking where is the parking located
around the building it around the four sides of the building there's parking in the front two sides and and in the rear um uh so it's it's well it's well spread out uh throughout the site and did you do a traffic study in conjunction with
this application yes well we here before uh the board for a variants for parking and Varian is propagated by the change of U of the uh use of the building uh which is currently non-medical and
medical and we're asking for all medical on this site so I looked at it at at a number of ways to determine the adequacy of parking and I think the most accurate way of determining which which is
spelled out in in our our report was actually take counts in the parking lot how many parked cars are are in the the parking lot what we find is that 67 maximum 67 were determined uh to be
parked on the site so that's the existing maximum parking demand of the current use of the site and that's with and the numbers I think simplistically you look at it we have almost 100 spaces 98 spaces almost 100
67 are are occupied at any one time so about 2/3 of the parking lot is filled and 2/3 of the building is filled so the simple simple math would be okay so if you pro-rated that and you
increase the occupancy uh of of the additional oneir that's currently vacant should be a straight line relationship and which would be conservative straight line relationship that the parking would also increase so whereas we're going uh at at
100% occupancy we'll have 100% approximately 100% of cars parked in each and every parking space we have 98 spaces the projection is that mathematically projection would be 97
parked cars with a full occupancy of this of this building this building is primarily occupied by a medical use currently there's a small portion less than 2,000 ft that is non-medical but looking at it on on a one toone basis
the the difference between uh uh having it as currently is to all medical brings you up to that 97 um number of parking spaces that well mathematically the the
calculation is 97 parked cars in 98 spaces uh so that that was the one way that I analyzed it the other way analyzing it looking at your ordinance I don't believe your ordinance is exactly realistic and reflects the real world but the difference between medical and
non-medical is 0.55 parking spaces so with this theoretically if you take your ordinance and and and uh and if you required uh the amount of parking per your ordinance the difference between non-medical and medical is just an increase of a little more than a half a
parking space and Mr um uh gason had pointed out that your ordinance says uh one space for every 200 square ft for non-medical one space for every 180 Square ft that difference is 0.55 U parking spaces so multiply that by the
size of the building the difference is seven parking spaces that that that is really just a side note uh that that I looked at in terms of how do we how does the uh ordinance apply actually took empirical data the parking
counts in the parking lot and then the last portion which falls in line the third third aspect that I looked at that falls in line with empirical data is the it The Institute of Transportation Engineers has parking studies for
medical office non-medical at a Litany of land uses but specifically medical and non-medical office and for medical office the peak uh average Peak parking rate is
2.63 parking spaces per thousand uh we're finding that we we're the existing um uh use of the building generates 3.16 spaces so the it is actually lower parking rate than uh than what we're
we're projecting I'm sorry what we found in the parking lot again just pointing out that the validity of the number of spaces that uh that we determined uh in that actual parking lot so with that I believe that
this that the um utilization of this building as fully medical office would be could be accommodated by the parking Supply that's on the site currently you'll hear you can hear some testimony to the aspect of that the uh the pops
therapy uh these are children that have physical therapy uh they do not drive they are dropped off by their parents they are there for hours during the day for their physical therapy the parent does not park the car and go sit in the
waiting room for 3 four five hours throughout the day they drop the child off and then they leave so in terms of amount of parking if if we know that the 11 is going to expand has a minimal amount of parking demand because the very nature of um of the use of that
medical use uh again just pointing out that we took a look at I I believe that our projections are conservative there's an economy of scale um you know if you you you expand the amount of um of office space you don't not your employee
rate does not go up on a linear basis the economy scale is going to you don't need you don't need five admin when you only had three before you can probably do it with four admin even though you you make double the amount of space so there's there's there there's that
ability that the space um uh can be accommodated and the last thing my experience with the medical office and and I'm sure everyone has has seen the um uh the same um uh
characteristics is when I was a kid going to going to see the doctor it was a doctor with a stethoscope a chair and table and that was it now you have diagnostic equipment you have a multitude of medical we've become so technical
uh involved with the med medicine medical Fields as it is today um there's a lot more room per person than there were back in the old days I I'll I'll say so the very nature of medical office is that it is spread out and not as
intensive terms of employee and patient as it as it was in the past much simpler to um uh for patients to make uh um uh reservations and and and change reservations uh I know I don't even talk
to the the um people in the office anymore we're always dealing with texting and things like that so it's very easier so my point being is that I believe that the medical office has seen a reduction in the amount of parking that's required uh for instance I went
for my uh just uh Monday I went for my uh semiannual and uh all my information I did not have to have a follow-up uh meeting with my doctor in the office my information was online in the in an app
and then I I had a a zoom call with her as well to go over the results not no need for me to go into the office an additional time again all points that that um uh less parking uh we've seen a decrease in the amount of parking in
this types of this type of land use Mr I believe the testimony was that the tenant pops thy is looking for an additional 2870 s ft is that correct that's correct of that 2870 how many additional spaces would be
required would it be slightly to less than two well oh oh from yes make the point yes um so 2870 Square ft being converted from General office non-med office requiring uh one U one space
every 200 ft to medical office which is one space for every 180 relates to one or two parking spaces now the entire amount for the ordinance I'm sorry for the ordinance the entire amount of additional space that the applicant is
looking for something like 11,000 square ft as opposed to adding medical space What would the number of additional spaces required be should the board determined to give that entire amount of space again per the ordinance would be
seven seven additional spaces now Mr stiger you also have been qualified as an expert in the field of plan yes can you review with the board the planning Concepts involved here and
the issues with regard to Medical space as opposed to non-medical space Etc well I'll talk about the the I think the the smaller aspect is the uh the buffer and uh and the ability to add buffer to this site we only way that we could a able to
add buffers reduce parking on this site which would would serve make make no uh service um to to the site um this site is completely developed in terms of uh the ability put buffers we can certainly enhance the buffers that are there we
talked about the fence uh leaves and garbage being blown through the fence into into the uh into the stream I believe it's a wire fence right now allows for that imperviousness of of of of stuff going through the fence uh we can make that a solid fence we can put
the vinyl slats in there make it a v vinyl add better buffer to our neighbors in the back who are um uh that see the activities that are going on um and things like that there there are areas that we could maybe enhance some of the
Landscaping on the site as well again working with what we already got on the site to make enhancements of what a buffer can provide doing the best that we can the other aspect that we uh look obviously is parking we are asking for a
variance per your ordinance I believe that the analysis that we show is that this medical office uh conversion uh can occur with sufficient parking on the site as the parking exists today not expanding not adding more spaces that
the UN that the parking lot is underutilized and by filling up the building with 100% of medical office will be accommodated that parking will be accommodated by those 98 spaces that are on the site now
so there's no detriment to the uh or negative aspect these are underutilized parking that can be utilized by uh and and support the variants um and without any detrimental
impact um to the um to your Zone plan to the neighborhood in the area so based on the C2 where the benefits outweigh the detriments I believe that this variants can be granted by this board now you work for a engineering firm is that
correct yes dynamic dynamic engineering Dynamic have any employees in that F it's over 400 total and can you tell on board how frequently in the last three or four or five years you've had applications for nonmedical office pap yeah
um I have not I have one done one office building in the last I'd say 25 years uh in of my career um I've worked on more office buildings that are being demolished and repurposed for
residential for warehouses the vacancy rate of Office Buildings in in Jun New Jersey well over 18 to 20% um the only office building I I have done and and actually was built in 2020 was the LG uh North American
headquarters I mean very unique um development um in the sense that LG Electronics wanted to move their headquarters into Anglewood Cliffs New Jersey and uh and that was the only office building that I can honestly say
new one that worked on an application in decades so the the the demand for office I in my field I have not seen at all in fact there's a much diminishment in the amount of uh office space and would you
review the proofs with regard to the zoning with regard to the parking for the medical use yes the uh again I think the proof proofs being the um C2 variants whereby um the benefits
outweigh the detriments here we have pavement that's underutilized parking spaces that are underutilized we have a building that's been vacant partially vacant the owner cannot find attendance has tried uh extensively to to fill it
uh and the only thing that's stopping us from being able to use it for medical office is the parking variants that we seek from this board so I believe that the benefits that would be gained by uh
by sheer zoning uh having a utilized building that's currently been vacant only appears that'll continue to be vacant unless that use changes from non-medical to medical office no further
questions to swi I have a question um not to beat a dead horse but going back to the actual parking space count I look in your report it says 97 spaces yeah I got that from the from Mr stura plans
without counting it but your count is 98 so those the report and the plans will be conformed to I'm sorry the plans and the report will be conformed to reflect 98 yes 98 correct and uh was there any consideration given about um installing
EV Chargers to bring that seven space Delta down you you make a very good point that I that I neglected I believe that we need to comply with the statute uh the EV statute uh and and provide 15%
of our uh of our um provided parking spaces would need to be EV EV charart so we have a close to 100 probably need uh 15 uh spaces now we do get credit of 10%
of what's what's required so if this board approves it based on the 98 spaces we get 10% credit or nine a nine Space Credit our variance is decreased by nine theor in
theory decreased so I mean that that complies with the law and that would be the number that we would be dealing with right um in terms of what what the what the actual variance is uh the differential is nine less spaces than uh
than than as indicated by taking the EV credit right that that's your question that's my question I have a couple meet yeah good evening um so I was looking at your
report and you said that you did your observations on Wednesday between 9:30 to 11:30 and 1:30 to 3:30 right cor right on on one single day yes um and you uh you said it was to coincide with
typical peak hours when you're determining the typical peak hours do you have conversations with the tenants of the building yeah Yes actually the it has break down of throughout the day of when PE I I understand that but did you have conversations with the tenants of the building the existing tenants to
determine whether your sample was representative of the peak times for their offices no I did not have any specific I'm just going from my experience as the traffic engineer when the Peaks occur Peaks are not going to occur during
lunchtime they're not going to occur early in the morning when people are still trickling in or leaving towards the end of the day the Peaks do occur in that midm morning and that midafternoon um for for office any type of office use
I I appreciate that so the answer to the question is no you didn't talk to I didn't speak with the attendant often I don't know and this is why I'm asking I don't know if the existing there's a large Dermatology practice allergy Immunology practice with multiple providers some doctor's offices have
limited hours on Wednesdays as kind of a a cultural norm uh it's golf day or whatever it is I don't know if that's the case for schwager the the tenant um but I am concerned about one day at one
time being used without any consultation uh with the uh with them determine if that did reflect their Peak census uh for individuals in that facility uh my second question let's assume that the variance would be
granted um and we're all wrong that there isn't enough parking because there's obviously a potential for that um Did You observe as a traffic engineer where the next best alternative for parking would
be for individuals who could not make it into the lot well you would have to park park legally um you'd be parking on the street someplace public parking and the next closest street is Claremont Avenue
I yes I believe so yes and you can't park on Pompton so okay you yes you cannot park on Pompton I mean unless you want to you know die a very quick death um but so you did not specifically observe or do any census on Claremont
Avenue um I so you can't tell me what side of the street they Park on my concern is if you look at Claremont Avenue the if somebody could not find a parking space naturally they would turn right out of 60 ppon Avenue the next
appropriate place to park would be uh Claremont Avenue parking is and they would be going driving down the north side of Claremont Avenue but the parking is orded only for the south side of Claremont Avenue which would
necessitate uh K terms or driving through neighborhoods in order to facilitate that um so that is a is a significant concern in addition if individuals were to turn off of Claremont and uh Park on Martin Road the
parking is also ordinance for the west side of Martin Road and not the east side which would be how you would access by a right turn so it does concern me that um there's a Reliance that this number at this time is representative of
that sample and there wasn't much consideration to uh the effects on the neighborhoods where there is relative frequent street parking um can I answer that or sure sure go ahead or at least comment I don't if
there's a question but uh you make a very good point and um I think there are a number of factors that could influence it either way certainly if I was a medical practitioner one thing I would look for do I have enough parking in the
parking lot or are my patients going to have to park around the corner someplace and if they do I most likely will not go there and rent that space so you there's mitigating factors that I believe you can point at it oh my Heavens what happens if I'm wrong and the number is
71 instead of 67 where are four people going to park um but the mitigating factor is that maybe not won't happen because a smart tenant is going to look at what the parking situation is and
decide whether I got a lot more patience than that I don't have enough parking for I may not need or want to go here so I think there's mitigating factors e either way that you know compensate for the possibility what if there were a couple
of more parking spaces on another day at some point or what have you so yeah when you uh when your team did the parking counts and observe um I think I missed this question for
the architect but looking at the plans um it doesn't look like there is a um a sidewalk around the building completely so when your team was there do they observe people walking through the the parking lot um in order to access the
building it doesn't appear that there is a sidewalk completely around the building and does not appear despite most of the parking being on the uh west side of the building or the rear of the building that there is building access as the architect pointed out before uh
the that is unused space at the the back of the building so did was there any observation or any comment from your team as far as people walking in the in the driveway or anything like that that raised any concerns to your Traffic Engineers well there there is sidewalk
I'm not going to say that it's uh 360° around the building but uh about 180° um the whole uh you know one the front of the building this one side of the building and there's a concrete sidewalk on the opposite side um if we
were someone were to park in the back um they would have to walk through the parking lot to to uh get into the building which is a very common way of of any parking lot or just about that to get if if you pointed to any parking lot
I would have to say there's there's the need to par walk in the parking lot it's proper rather than jump on a sidewalk and be able to take a sidewalk into a building that's a very very rare occasion no I I appreciate it it's the over there the um you know the space is
narrowed is a one way there's a lot of you know room to manage cars and people um my last question is you brought up the um the re the increased Reliance on Zoom meetings which always a very interesting point
um the the largest tenant is a Dermatology allergy group uh um do you think that's a this may be out of your expertise but do you think that those are disciplines that are conducive to zoom uh doctor appointments well my
my wife just went today to a dermatologist she has a sample taken of a mole and that's taken to a lab someplace and what she's going to do is get on a zoom call to discuss what the results are she doesn't have to go back into the office and sit face to face
with the dermatologist to find out so I I think any type of medical use has that ability um once you go in some some testing or diagnostic uh you have to wait for the results you can do that
consultation via Zoom rather than face to a face that concludes my questions M chair yeah go ahead Mr S I just want to clarify something on the EV spaces you had talked about the credit it does in my understanding and I've been wrong
before it doesn't apply to commercial space right it's only new residential development no it applies it applies and I don't know this the nuances and the specifics I think that there uh is changes to the use I believe or the site
plan um uh but this is not a this isn't a site plan application right so there you wouldn't get a credit for having EV spaces because our ordinance has to be the it has to be we have to follow the state model ordinance basically we don't
even need an ordinance I'd have to get back beond that cuz I I I don't know um I don't know if it it if voluntarily if you add 15% which is the requirement then you can get credit for it I so I'd have to look into the statute okay and I
believe it's only residential but I mean I just briefly reread the ordinance you know the model ordinance so okay can we take like a minute break make it a little longer I would like to talk to my
client for a couple minutes okay a few minute break please thank you never [Music] it's doctors and it's just it's just the opposite you just never know
I don't was next I met it's where you go oh early on you're new I will be [Music]
tonight mov today they took B I don't think Sy I'm [Music] going this I don't know interested in getting the ranch
than I was not oh no now oh is that [Music] right you're in trouble goodbye thank you for allowing the recess as I
recall it's time to cross we're in in the process of doing that right now right y That's I was just to say that's what I say whatever you want do okay so Mr stiger I just I disagree with some of your projections around and
assumptions around occupancy even though you say some of the parents will be dropping their kids off for therapy I mean just the nature of the way physical therapists work there's multiple patients at one time I'm sure not all the parents are going to be dropping them off some are going to be staying
and um I don't I I don't think your linear progression is I would I wouldn't believe that just just based on my experience with many physical therapists it's fairly intensive and there's
typically multiple patients per time slot per therapist so it's a it's a it's a it's a sharper curve than a typical I think medical practice and then you're also your assumption around around um
sort of video or Zoom follow-ups um yeah I'm not I'm not convinced that that should be um given a lot of weight either I know that that happens sometimes but I just don't think you should make that assumption because
as we were saying earlier is that if we don't get this right and we have people driving around the streets or or can't find a spot then that's what we're trying to avoid we have we have the um the therapist um manager here so we'll have
we'll have better answers for you um yeah the the problem with depending on one particular type of medical use is that that could change right I mean we're not talking about the owner of the building being a
physical therapist and etc etc we're talking about a I mean I don't we're just talking about a tenant but the use is what we're talking talking about not the type of physical therapy versus uh you know Dermatology versus opthomology
you know it's the medical use itself right you could restrict the right I mean I'm just saying you could choose to allow a dentist only or right okay I I and and that's why I took an additional step and looked at the it trip parking
generation as well because that addresses that very question that you what is the general nature not this specific tenant not this specific what is the general nature of medical and dental as I pointed out we what I found
in counting the cars we have 3.16 Park cars per thousand square fet the it which is a more conglomeration of the general um population of medical and dental offices is
2.63 so we're operating higher than what the average is let's say on a national or Statewide Regional basis so that's why I believe we're up in that upper range and if we did have different tenants coming in it more likely would
come down as opposed to go going up so it's again it's probability it's what the most likely will happen but again I believe what we found was we found what the most likely aspect is going to happen sir according to
the use you're supposed to have 141 spots for your ordinance for for your ordinance and your ordinance let me finish please I do have questions that's okay I'm like I do it all the time so go ahead
interrupt me I don't care no I will we're okay um yes per our ordinance and there's a reason for that because some uses medical uses are more intensive than others you seem to be claiming that the
use for this gentleman as a physical therapist is not as intensive as other medical uses um but we don't really know that 100% and we also don't know what other
types of medical uses that the uh client or the applicant may have coming in that being said it's our ordinance calls for 141 parking spots you have 97 or 98 depending on how you want to split the baby in the
backwat on that one um which is about 31% deficient on the site and as the mayor pointed out it's a very big concern because there is really no overflow parking on that two four
lane maybe it's 25 miles an hour but I can tell you people do not go 25 M hour on Pompton Avenue they they they're more it's a it's a great deal faster so your visit on that one
day at those two time slots um in a building that has a great deal of vacancy at this point um and then you counted the cars that were there of course the cars that weren't there because there is a vacancy
and then you extrapolate it up to a number that just seemed incredibly random and Incredibly one day one day event kind of thing and I I see anger or something boiling
um okay so the the the problem with extrapolating off of such a random one day two time slots is what the mayor said you didn't really find out out whether those were like
it's a different medical use it didn't look into which medical use has different you know more ex you know the more used hours the most busy hours I know that I go to the doctor at 7: a.m.
and they open schwager opens at 7:00 a.m. and they close at 7 p.m. for the most part um a lot of people go into the doctor's office before work or at the sort of at the end of their day so they don't miss a full day of
work I I I think rush hour can be a very busy time for those places so I I'm I am very uh skeptical of your numbers your
extrapolation and your report okay and I can I can say again that the it is is a conglomeration of empirical data that professionals have put together done the same thing what I did on this one specific actually go to sites to find
out what is the parking requirements and they've even broken it down into hourly basis and you're right they may open at 7:00 they do but but they're not at their Peak all of the staff is not there at 7 the the uh the patients aren't all
there what the it based on the p data actual counted data is that it happens at 10 a.m. and at 2 2:00 p.m. it's midm morning midafternoon and it makes sense because you have people trickling in
they're not all there at 7:00 on the dot parking lot is is is is full and same thing at at 5:00 or 6:00 and lunchtime obviously is not the peak time for people to uh to for P for patients to be there and or
the staff to be there as well and again that's borne out by the it as well so I I firmly believe that we hit the numbers uh in terms of when we took the counts is one enough is two enough is 10 enough I I can't tell you but I think it's a
valid question and it's something that we can follow up on well it's it's 30 plus perc short of parking for that type of use can I interrupt you for a minute you keep talking about the 30% yeah
because you were given a 10% overage in 2004 can I finish it's a pre-existing use it's there the variance is for seven spaces not 30 or 40 spaces seven spaces the difference
between nonmedical and medical you're talking dirty spaces that's not correct we have the right to be there you know sir I want to correct that a little bit in the 2004 in the
2004 document that we have it seemed to say that there were 78 parking spots and that you were granted a waiver of 10% of the parking in that
lot well they're not 78 spes there are 98 so I don't know what that means I have no idea what it means does that did anyone else see that 78 and then it was changed up in the resolution the 2004 resolution that was
included in the application it doesn't it doesn't have the it doesn't have a number but it just said that the uh 10,200 ft that are subject of this application shall be used utilized
only for a single practice so they got a variance to allow this medical practice and might traffic experts just look through resolution same about 78 spes so again I'm trying to point out that the variance is for seven spaces why do I have
78 because it's on the plan right [Music] here exist this would be existing if you had second Core Business existing to this is what's this is
what's being used now yeah it's based on the vacancy not the approval that [Music] 78 oh Jesus Sor I don't understand understand the difference here so what is the
78 these are on idea with I'm sorry I have no idea what they mean but it says provided 97 I 97 spaces I listen I would like to know what the 78 refers to that was 2004 how can I tell you what
this I I think that's based on the exist it might be based on the existing if it was based on existing from 2004 then your waiver was granted Bas based on that amount of parking
right 10% waiver explain no but the approval is based on what the site plan was and the site plan was 98 spes we don't know that don't know what that was in 2004 it hasn't changed they've always had 98 spaces so that's what the approval was then why does it
say this says this says 78 that's just what it is right now in terms of their vacancy an occupation but the building approval in 2004 is what the building was built here's why because it has previous use and proposed use so with
the proposed use they would need 65 here with the current use they only need 55 that's that's only one floor it's yes second floor ground floor pre that's each Flor I'm not I didn't draft it I'm
just telling you what it means okay that if they have the second flooor for medical dental Chiropractic or Veterinary they would need 55 right now the only people on the second floor the accountants and they need two yeah that's what the existing So
based on the existing use of the building right now they need 78 SP the accountants need more than two if they have 1990 Square ft it's for it's I'm just saying yes they have more than two employees I me I I can assure
you the existing number of parking spaces is not they need around eight for that use I could do math um but bottom line I don't see it as you only needing seven spots that's not from
my perspective that is not how I see it but you might see it that way that's what the fact are seven spaces you you just pointed to the ordinance and said you need 141 spaces for the ordinance but then if you go back to the ordinance the difference between non-medical and
medical is seven spaces so can't you can't have if you're going to use the ordinance you can't use it one way and not the other way use it both ways I have I have a slightly different question related but slightly different um going back to the whatever was 2004
resolution it very clearly says that there will only be a single Medical Practice of 10,200 Square fet so whatever variance was granted for however many spaces and there was a variance
granted was limited to that you've made it very clear that you're seeking to get approval for a potentially the entire building to be leased for medical use so that's obviously more than 10,200 Square
ft and presumably requires 141 spaces that don't exist so my question is this it's kind of what I asked the architect you said today ask you um did you do any evaluation of the existing parking to
see whether it could be adjusted in any way to provide any additional spaces I'm not talking about more Paving cuz I'm familiar with the site um that's not the issue where they're restriping
reconfiguring would add anything or be detrimental did you evaluate that if so what did you find out and if you didn't evaluate it why not the answer is no I didn't evaluate it but it was a is
a good question and um uh based on on on what my recommendation would be in order to get spaces you have to have smaller spaces and if we took the staff particularly since the staff primarily
comes in during the morning and leaves at night maybe go out to lunch in midday it's it's low turnover and if we designated the rear parking for staff parking which is the least convenient uh and not to the general public we could
we could break that down into 8ot spaces as opposed to 9ot spaces and still be functional for for the the employees who Park every day in there or compact spaces I think that was your point can you fit more spaces within the same area
we could do that by by making smaller spaces in some cases either 82 foot wide or 8ot wide spaces so it's something we can look at mam yes please for um Mr gion I think this question is more directed for you and
your client but I'm going to ask it now if this board were to Grant you a variance for the uh um pops therapy for pops therapy and Pops therapy only at this point for the expansion which seems to be the you know um it doesn't have as
much effect on the parking and you could potentially come back to the board you know on the other item would your client be willing to you know would that be amendable to your client as a as a step at this point yes it would because the only tenant we
have pop we've been looking for ten so we're not going to go chase a dream if we can get to 2870 for po thank you Mr my recommendation to the board at this point would be we obviously have to hear from the public they have the right to
question this witness after that I would be happy to make a motion with some conditions to approve that variance for that facility for the physical therapy um with a couple conditions related to buffers things like that to assist the
residents if that's amendable to everybody um think there is a legitimate reason in Need For That facility that would not have a huge impact on parking that would be my recommendation on how to proceed at this point but we do obviously need to allow the public to
ask questions of miger before then I have one quick question how many square feet increase is that total in the building for the Physical Therapy Group 287 so we go up to 15,000 Square ft basically of medical use in
that building something in that in those whereabouts weing 2870 whatever it is I don't okay I'll tell you because I I did I did math for a living two space two space two two additional parking spaces
would be yeah that we would be I actually was just looking at the square footage use that that's really what I wanted to get to hold on counselor while the chairwoman is doing that can you tell me what the legal ramifications would be for the rest of my applicant he asking me
withdraw the rest without pres I think I think you'd be amending your application at this point to apply for only um an additional 2870 Square ft two spaces and then you withdraw the I withdraw the
other without prejudice the other right then you would be able to reapply reapply right that would be fine wait a minute all right so it would be pretty much 16,000 Square ft
15955 it would be that I mean according to the numbers on this gentleman's would you agree yes I think you're right right now based on the plan the amount of medical that's occupied is
13,858 70 was it 2870 top 159 is there a way does anybody have an issue with locking that in as the limit of the building that would be for discussion I
well I'm asking I would let the public ask their questions we could have a motion and a discussion on the motion but the just on a legal basis on a legal basis there's always an opportunity to come in for a variance based on you know other testimony so that's why the
resolution from 200 four says what it says no further medical use unless there's a variance well let me ask you this wouldn't it be putting in an application well for something that was basically anyway okay you know what I'm saying when you have an application for
the same thing not rest you to college that's what Mr Gasol was saying about reserving your rights okay to come in because it could be a medical use that could be you know one doctor in 5,000 square ft that that would be a doctor could be a voodoo doctor
I I just a question for uh mayor Tam burrow on that proposed modification uh when you say you wanted to limit it to the additional uh you know 2,800 or so square feet for pops did you mean just for medical use in general because the
prior resolution was for medical use single tenant so do you now want to a correct I would put the variant for the therapist right now based on the 2004 resolution the pops actually shouldn't even be in
that building based on my reading um it's been it's been an allowed use um so I think if our concern being parking at the facility our variant would have to allow pops number one because it wasn't
allowed originally however after 21 years you know obviously the the the client and Pops what you know there's you know some legal abilities for them to claim that we did not address this from the zoning the planning Point Physical Therapy is
not the same as medical under the ordinance so that's that was my question actually to the to our attorney over here um but I would my my motion would be and I do want to hear from the public before this but my motion would be to
allow for the X number of square feet we add the two square footage together the ground floor and upstairs to be a allowed for a physical therapy office in that time put the same restriction in
that if they any other um desires to use that then it would be have to come back before the board for a different purpose um and to include buffering for that space in exchange for the applicant withdrawing the rest of their current application without prejudice um that's
what my motion would be to allow that does our does our traffic expert want to at this moment based on the mayor's suggestion it and all the discussion that's happened I think we've covered it all
um there there have been other things should you know other potential uses that we don't know about um there were more concerns with that but if that is no longer the case then there's no questions for
me can I be heard just on one thing the total pops therapy space is 63 C 63 what 6370 6370 they're they have 3500 now we're asking for 2870 so the total will
be 637 obviously we have I don't know what the Dermatology Group is Der colge group has been there forever take a couple questions calc what did you say the total would be
for 60 63 7 6370 is what I think I said yes 6,370 okay I'm I see on in the basement it says 3204 are currently used as medical use
am I right well I'm looking he has the same numbers as as Mr yes can you on page three and six that your own report please the traffic report
yes so right now you have existing and proposed at 3204 medical use of the basement that is I would assume toxs yeah okay and then you're asking for
2870 what8 second is what we're asking for 2870 that's correct that comes out to 6074 yeah you're 300 over in your M I only know 2870 the number that I just gave to the mayor came from my
traffic well you added 300 extra whatever the number I gave you mayor was wrong I just was told the existing is 3270 and you have to add on to that 18277 the existing is what I just was told 327
7 and then based on the plan you would want to add 1802.2 s we want it add 2870 so okay it's just on the I need to pull the plan again I'm sorry being told
I'm sorry okay so everyone's charts are Miss labeled is that correct with the square footage I didn't do I'm not I'm asking your your witness I I got the chart from The Architects plan The Architects plan of the basement shows the physical
therapy tenant SP is 32037 and you're saying that instead it's 3270 I know it sounds like a little but I again got a correction 3203 3203 77 so 3204 deal
3204 that's what he has right here okay so 3204 and then the upstairs on the plan it says there's 1,827 s Square ft of unoccupied space which is substantially less than the 2870 I'm just looking to figure out
where those other 900 ft come from yeah there's only 18 3 vacant on the first floor yeah yeah yeah well make sure you're looking at the basement floor basement floor is 3204 that's a 3204 physical therapist okay what are
you increasing into the first floor the first floor only has as 18277 1803 available know know the architect I think that was a question was asked where where where they going where you know where is the additional
space going addition [Music] I'm getting 5 anybody else get 5,000 total because you're add basement to the first floor basement to the first
floor's let's check that out he also asked for 6500 on the appli it's 11 put make itce all Mr Mayor I I have to apologize these are different numbers I'm getting
I think this is now the accurate number again I'm getting it for my professionals I'm not the ACC this is like election number 5647 that's what I have as well I'm going to call it 5,7 and you can have those extra5 square fet if you want I'm very
sorry for the improper calculation so can we just sum it up like this before I open to public um you're asking to convert 183 square feet on the first floor that is currently
vacant to Med to the medical use of uh correct physical for the physical therapy use okay I would called the ground just ground floor really is the second floor okay I'll call it the ground floor
the [Applause] 1883 Square feet of vacant space right now to be converted to use for the physical therapy that's currently and that's it okay does that affect the
amount of parking spots it it does it does it would it increases the requirement by two spots by two it Remains Two okay um does anybody else on the board have any further questions for this
gentleman I at this time I would like to then open to public you have you have your own microphone over here yeah Paul patang N Martin Road Verona
okay um a few things I want to say are I agree uh wait these are questions questions this isn't your end your route all right my question are the traffic study did you take is it just parking study or traffic because did you take into consideration the new light going
on Claremont or right next door less than 15 ft from your property line is a medic Center building which is also medical which has people come in and out every day and then like we talked about before if it's not pops is it going to be later on down the line it could be other medical so that's my other
question the answer that yes you did take that into consideration and was there any was did you understand that even right now traffic backs up and blocks that driveway yes without the traffic
light yes I I I know the I was there during the times of traffic conditions on on so if there's a traffic light at the top of Claremont would that back up even
further it shouldn't it shouldn't because it should it should make it more efficient to process vehicles and again I didn't study that okay traffic signal design it so okay Madam chairwoman yeah wait oh we
have another member of the public sorry no [Laughter] please hi Regina Hudson um Verona in regards to the blanket statement that you made that typically now um most Medical it's our tah Health um I say
most okay I said it's something that has come uh in the last few years that has I believe a beneficial effect in terms of the amount of traffic that's generated and parking that's generated okay my apologies I thought there was some sort
of inference that on okay I could be WR I just want to know was any consideration taken when you make that statement into we're in a post-pandemic era and in healthcare statistically what it's looking like for teleah health versus inpatient visits and then also as it relates to different healthc care
Specialties and um payer contract for medical policies it's more stringent for a telea health versus an inperson so did you take into account the current tenants what their percentage and statistics are of tella Health charges out which can be obtained versus
in-person visits no this was not specific to any any tenant and I I think as the chairwoman have pointed out we need to take a look at a more Global aspect of what the general aspects are and I did not know what a zoom call was 5 years ago I know what they are today
and as it relates to Medical it it is part of the medical industry a good part of it that follow up with uh with the television yes my question is can you quantify that because you just said it's General and I'm saying as someone who's
yeah as someone who's in medical um in a post-pandemic era there are papers that are coming out that are showing the difference in the relationship between continuous tele Health visits the payer relationship that impacts that provider's decision to either bill out for tell health or not I'm just I'm
asking in regards to that statement if it was take into consideration answer is no thank you the answer to that is no I did not take that into consideration are there any other members of the public that have questions for this uh Witness
if not mayor I'll wait I am going to I am going to close public participation on this for questions but it will be reopened for comments in a in a few moments before we do um do you plan on calling the
tenant yeah I don't think it's necessary okay well before you do because I had a question I was reserving for the tenant but Mr sagger if you could answer it generally um with respect to the medical use is do you know whether this tenant or medical practitioners in general do
they have the ability to control patient intake by way of appointments versus are they subject to walk-ins oh yes absolutely by appointment only this this specific T this specific is by appointment only yes and most medical It
Is by appointment this there's an emergency of some sort do you know if this tenant handles emergencies as a in this situation these are very severely disabled children and they're here for hours at a time they have appointments and they're there for
extended period of time they do not see that many patients for this particular situation so unlike in a like a retail or traditional commercial setting where you have your hours of operation and you could get slammed with a rush that you don't expect here it's controlled this
it controlled because it's a five point know and if the uh tenant determines that hey the parking is insufficient they can modify how they uh schedule that's correct yes that's all I
have yeah before you do any are you going to propose something yes I would like to open to public first I'm just on anything or do you open Public public make statement St I they don't do that
during discussion at this time sorry at this time I open to public comment General comments um regarding this application the application the application okay not just a question for
him all right so uh basically on the application I don't have an issue if this was deemed just to pops uh pops like they said helps the disabled the serly disabled seriously disabled um
they don't have crazy flow of traffic I do hear the kids outside I do see them every so often they do drop the kids off my concern is for later on down the line when pops leaves the Dermatology place to me is the biggest traffic and the
biggest problem with it um I just I had no issue with what's going on in that building I have an issue with what's going on and after talking to the owner and everything he's going to hear a lot from me in time to come but I believe as
long as he keeps a good relationship the residents will keep a good relationship and that's all we ask for um the only issue I have is basically pulling out onto Pompton the parking yes I believe you can uh change some lines and move
some things around uh I work civil engineering I'm a land surveyor uh I've worked for with Dynamic alongside many projects uh and I know you can totally revamp this parking lot to make it fit more Cars Plus have a dumpster Corral
and instead of changing the fence to a vinyl fence you have a chain link fence which is basically brand new cuz your plows pushed it over a few years ago and I would just suggest a curve along the back line with a depressed curb towards where your dumpster is to get the water
out of your property and that would stop all your stuff from going down and like the trash going through the fence otherwise I'm okay with just pops nothing else after that can I ask you a question you want the water from their site to run off onto the back they're
not going to change that there's no sight plans I if it was up to me I would want drainage I would want uh the Water to be stored and then cleaned and then dumped back into the brook down the brook uh you would need to go there was so much you would have to pull the curb
three foot off of the fence line now because you don't have an existing buffer you have 16 feet I objected can we stay wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute sir he's making a comment and I just asked him what not relevant to this case he's he's allowed to make a comment it's not relevant to so I get four
minutes as a public speaker so not public speaking all right you made your talk question but then you kind of went off she you were trying to answer question because of your knowledge but yes I would not want the water to be
drained into the creek because it is legally not allowed to have be drained into the creek but okay thank you yes thank you any other members of the public have a comment General comment about this
application seeing n no more um I am closing public participation mad Madam chairwoman yes I move that the board Grant a variance to allow for
5,7 square ft of physical therapy space that the space be restricted for a physical therapy practice um and as conditional for this approval would be some attractive
buffering be installed by the building owner um visual buffering between um you know long Martin Road and and uh Claremont Avenue those borders you mean a fence or or yeah something are you
talking a fence or plantings buffering or plantings correct so something attractive visual buffering so they don't have to see the par can we do that is there we can is there is there practical room to do that there is
room I mean there was testimony that they could do additional landscaping or put up privacy fence so I I mean a privacy fence would be fine too my my traffic check engineer says we could put a fence there's not much room for solid
fence a solid fence I would include as um part of the motion to install that um to provide that buffering along both along along bar and clemont the back driveway correct the South and the West ends of
the parking lot and would there be a stipulation added to that stating that that limits medical correct my medical use to my motion 15,000 square ft my motion is for 5,7 square ft to be for
physical therapy I understand what you're saying but I'd like to add to it I think it needs to be clarified for the entire space so I'm not I do not agree with that okay for my
motion the reason being is that I differentiating between General Medical space and the physical therapy space so on that motion though um you know I did a quick look at the code Physical
Therapy space is not a defined term it's called in under Medical yes I agree so I I have an issue with it's medical cre it's it's medical I agree yeah I'm sorry
yeahor he thinks that yeah under the code we don't have a a definition for physical but you can you can I I know but I you know my preference my two sentes I think it should stay medical um so you don't want to restrict
it just to physical therapy right you just want to you want to Grant a variance for an extra 50007 no it's yeah 1,800 square feet okay um but I I would also like to add additional conditions that we had discussed
um uh there were some open questions about trash collection whether it was sufficient while we didn't have uh any testimony specifying what the collection schedule was um I would like a condition
of approval that the applicant provide that information to our engineer um for determination whether the uh trash collection is sufficient and if necessary uh increase the frequency uh as well as limit the hours
of pick pickup to after 7 a.m. um I would also like a the dumpster to be screened with that privacy fencing uh the dumpster to be scened so there's actually a trash enclosure um the reason being that you
know if if the parking spaces are going to become uh more utilized uh if we are at capacity I don't want a situation where the dumpster is moving into parking spaces trash is spilling out
into parking spaces so I want to enclose dumpster um also the condition on snow removal I think uh attorney uh noted that but I just want that on the on the record no
um and also a condition that they would add the uh EV uh charging stations what how I mean because it's noted for commercial use so they they they I I would say the the seven parking
spaces that is the Delta between uh the existing office use and if it was a fully medical building seven EV well yeah seven EV charging stations as a
condition of approval so um being you know I had made a motion at this point you're asking we're adding yeah so well well that has to the cons on the motion so can make a motion so here the well we have to
either defeat this rather rather than dueling motions I just want to put that out there to see the may I don't really like the process here I'd really rather talk about it well you have to have a motion to discuss um otherwise you're discussing non-specific items right so I'm happy to
amend the motion to include the the trash components and the sow removal as discussed um I I do wish for the motion to remain that that area is restricted physical therapy because from the testimony that we have heard that has
the limited impact on the parking um and that's why I'm inclined to do that we also have to make sure that we're not actually we're adding 5,000 s 57 Square ft of medical because based on the 2004
resolution the other 3200 is not technically an allowable use now because it was not taken before the planning board uh between those times so we're actually adding 5,7 so if we want to I perhaps if we want to say that it's
Medical but the use of that medical space is restricted to physical therapy I think that would beat Mr hinman's um legal goals and then my goal of making sure that the parking piece is dealt with um I understand your point about what's in the code so that is a
great Point um I would include that the part about the EV Chargers I I think it's the expense of the of the EV charger um I don't know based on how many people like use this space there's no residential here so I'm not sure
requiring EV Chargers is necessary for the application um as it stands now for the parking piece my concern also is is that if people are not going to charge their vehicle and pay for it that that actually pulls back on the of available
parking and could potentially make the problem worse so I would pull that if the building owner wants to install EV as a as a service to the tenants because many might start requiring that in the future that would be up to them but my concern is putting more restricted
parking on site um because if people are going to use that either the building owner is providing free electricity which is an added expense or they're now charging because you can't buy State Statute right park in an EV spot unless you're actively puring your vehicle so that's my I think you can on private
because they can they can make their own paring uh requirements for Ev like you could anyone could park there I mean I think at this point I would because the concern is parking I think we limit parking uh with that I also think having
the EV Chargers there invites a security concern for the building where people that that live in the area might try to use those spaces especially if they're not going to be metered and now the police are patrolling you have cars there it invites Towing issues and all
the stuff the police department deals with it's they're almost like an attractive nuisance over there where they are and then you have people walking to various different points so I'm just not convinced about that so I would amend the motion to add the I'll just restate the motion
57 square fet of medical restricted to physical therapy a privacy fence on the south and West sides of the building facing the residences only on Claremont and Martin
Road um the um trash pickup after 7:00 um a notification to the township engineer of when that trash and how often that trash pickup is a privacy fence around the dumpster as well um to
screen that and snow removal um with truck out from the S um I think those are the appropriate conditions based on discussion I do have some items for comment but I'm not going to comment now because all I'm doing is making a motion
at this point I'm going to reserve my comments for the discussion period um that's that's my motion as a same comments we need a second on the motion in order to discuss a second
Mr uh Vice chairy seconds discussion on on any other further issues on this amendments suggestions tweets I just have one item for discussion well I was reserving my
discussion own I discuss I want to provide my rationale for the public this is this is the opportunity to do that um I am compelled by the the use of this building for therapy um and The Limited impact does have on parking I find that
compelling the reason I made this motion is I did not find the rest of the parking study or testimony compelling or credible um so I'm that's why I'm focusing on this piece um in addition I've asked the township manager to
direct our zoning construction officials to take a more active role in monitoring that site in order to meet the the needs of the neighbors and I and now that the building owner is more aware of some of the issues involved um I think that I have confidence that you'll be a good
neighbor and address those issues based on the understanding and your opening this to that uh but I do want to point out that this does not limit the ability of the municipality to make sure that that um facility is meeting our obligations in accordance with rest our
code um and that that's my the conclusion of my comment thank you for listening I have a question regarding the scant of information that was included in the resolution passed in 2004 which
is no great surprise CU we were W I would really like there to be a suggested or a
figure of allowable usage for that medical Andor other that would be um 14888 Square ft or if you round up 15,000 total for that use at this time
there's 13,858 1803 that brings you up to around 15,000 square ft would like to as a summary to just to say no in the in the resolution no but as a summary in the
resolution because the resolution allows something that the code doesn't allow otherwise the code stands so we would so I'm I'm saying that the details should be drafted because we are we really didn't know
what was happening how much expansion occurred in 20 before we only know that the expansion occurred from X to Y up to 10,200 sare ft we didn't know how many parking spots were I'm just asking for
details to be drafted into this limiting the medical use to 15,000 square ft in the building unless the applicant comes back for a variance the same way I don't understand what you don't get do does anyone else understand what
I'm saying don't I'm just turn it into an argument I'm not turning it into an argument I don't understand why I'm not sure curious so if I could just procedurally sure the motion is to add 57 allowable Square fet
we already have the 24 resolution that allows for the X that right well that's that's there now we're adding 5,000 I don't think we need to have a necessarily a total number because we have those two things added together if
we wanted to more realize that because actually that resolution had a limit of 10,200 right that adding 5,000 I think that goes to to Jessica's point is that it it isn't clear because you're operating under the
assumption that this 2004 resolution approved 10,200 ft of medical total but that's not really what it says it says subject that's the subject of this application we don't know what the medical use was
in the big building that this 10,200 ft was I think maybe it was 5 I think so that that's why I I I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of parsing it out Clarity in terms of well this is physical 5,000 physical therapy this is
like we should just allow the use uh for medical as defined in the code either for the whole building for us what's on the plans exactly or deny it like right no I don't like the idea
more comp it's getting far more complicated than it needs to be you're asking me not for what's approved you're asking me on how to write the background in the resolution no I the resolution is
not I'm suggesting that there's a limitation of 15,000 square ft in the building that's that's exactly what we're passing I'd like that written clearly and stated clearly in the resolution as listen he's giving you his conditions the minute I
ask for something you're like no just look I object you can't put a total amount when you don't have the history you don't know what you're allowing the what the mayor has proposed okay that's what should be it's on the plans of
what's medical and what's not and we're adding 5,000 square ft to what is on the planet that's fine right so in in the factual recitation could you just take the numbers from the plan just say hey existing condition there's this much Medical but it's not it's not part of
the conclusions absolutely okay and I just want to know for the record that what's currently listed as Medical on the plan however was not approved we're actually approving the level you don't know that medical you don't know that well we do know that only
10,200 Square no because there could have been existing Medical already this was an existing building before 2004 it was existing medical and the zoning allowed for medical and office use so we have to take a step back and look
Medical's An approved use in the zone I understand that this is a very specific condition of this resolution so it's not even really a variance it's an amendment of a condition yes there is a variance for parking because they're they want to add more um more Medical
uh office and it's exacerbating the variance that they received but the restriction on medical is a condition of the approval it's not so what is your suggestion for it's not indicative of what the approved medical
use overall in the building was because the original site plan they could have gotten a variance for you know x amount of medical already and then the 200 before was adding 10,000 on top of that corre and they could be they could be
under that total amount right now that was a messy one so that's I'm was very if Greg just identifies in the recitation what the existing medical square footage is and
then we take uh the mayor's uh resolution saying we're adding you know 5,000 plus or minus square feet of additional medical restricted to a physical therapist's office then I think
that that clarifies the record agre same well I yeah but you were like not going to put num no no no it's just not part of the findings of fact it's part of the recitation of Prior facts right this was medical
this this I got it okay I just want it I want clear because that as you stated that resolution was very murky yeah any other
I did no the the the the resol the uh motion stands can you please take a roll call vote a second uh yes we did Mr Vice
chair pres quick does this motion include the um charging stations or does not okay I wish there could be a couple but I understand the fear of people parking overnight and charging their
vehicles for free not that it would cost that much but yeah I'm sorry Mrs Parker hi Mr yes Mr Hinman
yes Mr deal yes yes Tom jro Sullivan yes mayor Toro yes yes Vice chair fing yes chair Pearson yes the motion passes
and thank you for your time and attention got close I have to go no we yes we are Jing our public meeting no no we're not going into are you're not go back
counil thank motion motion to adjourn thank you