Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Heat. Heat.
Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey,
hey, hey, hey. Hey hey hey, hey, Hey, hey,
hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey hey hey, hey,
Hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. Hey, hey, hey. Everything. Wonder.
down. Hey Hey yummy. Baby, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 2 minutes.
Wow. Hey, We'll get started in uh 60 seconds. Well, it's good to see everybody this morning. We uh almost have a a full house. Uh we will call the August 5th, 2025 Valuchia County Council meeting to
order at 9:06. And just to give you a quick rundown on how we start in just a minute, I will uh ask you to stand for the invocation, the pledge of allegiance. You can do that if you care to. I hope that you do. Um the
invocation this morning will be by Pastor Jesse Jarvis from Christ Church in Daytona Beach. If you're part of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocations we have before our meetings, uh you're welcome
to do that. Please just send an email to uh K green, the letter K and then green. That's Chrissa um over there and she will get you all set up to uh do that. All faith groups are welcome. So, if you
uh would stand with me now uh for the invocation, Pastor Jesse, please come forward. Good morning. Let's pray. Father God, we thank you for this day. We thank you for life and breath in our lungs. I thank you for each person who's
here participating in our local government. Thank you for advocates and business owners, citizens, and our county council members and county employees. God, we thank you that you have instituted governments among men for the
rewarding of good and the punishment of evil. God, we pray that today would result in decisions that are good for those in our county, that would be honoring to you, and that would bring justice to those in need. God, I pray that you would provide wisdom and
direction for each of the council members and the decisions that are made. Uh, and I thank you. I thank you that we have this opportunity to speak, to be heard, and to work together. God, thank you for your love for us, your commitment to well-ordered society.
Thank you for the gift of your son, Jesus. It's in his name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Christa, would you call the role, please? Mr. Johansson, here. Mr. Kent, here. Mr. Reinhardt, here. Mr. Robbins, here. Mr. Santiago here.
Mr. Dempsey here. Mr. Brower here. Thank you very much. Um, do we have any public participation? Yes, we do. I will call your name in the order that they came in. And when I do, if you
would just come to the podium, make sure that there is a microphone um near your mouth so that we can all hear you and and the uh millions of people listening can hear you. Don't be nervous. Um, and just tell us if you would where you're from in the county. So, your
representative up here uh knows that you're in their district. Um you don't have to give your full uh address for safety reasons. You will have three minutes to talk about anything that pertains to the county that we may be able to take action on at at a later
date. Please keep it respectful. Um you have a first amendment right. I just ask that you would um handle that right respectfully and respect all those in the room and all those that are listening in. So, nobody likes to go
first, but um Mike Ponyatowski, you're up first today. You have three minutes. Good morning, Mike Ponytowki from the Farms Village. I'm here to talk to you about something, a project that is going to come before you. Probably not today.
You may talk about it later today, but it's a project that you can finally do something about. It's in the county. It's not in a city. You have the power to control it, to change it, to make it what it needs to be. Again, it may not come before you today, but you're going to talk about it soon. And a lot of these people here are going
to talk about it today and other days as well. I'm talking about a small piece of land, probably one of the few pieces of land still untouched by time. It runs along the bank of Spruce Creek south of Taylor Road between the Spruce Creek Flying and a quiet place in the country.
It's currently home to thousands of hundred-year oaks. It's pristine. It has some tim timukin, pardon my pronunciation, Indian burial mounds. It's an important breathing living piece of Spruce Creek that hosts abundant wildlife. It holds storm water. It
breathes in CO2. It exhales oxygen. It holds hundreds of millions of gallons of storm water. and it sends it underground to reach our aquifer. You will finally have the chance to prevent this amazing gift of God from being bulldozed, drained, filled, and built upon to add
another plus or minus 200 single family homes. Once this land is gone, it'll be gone forever. It will shed its storm water onto someone else's property, and it will be up to them to pick up the pieces without help from anybody in this room, probably because it's happening
all over Valuchia County. The local temperature will rise by a few degrees as the asphalt and the roofs absorb the radiant heat of the sun and radiated out at night. The night sky will be dimmer because of the ambient light that will be added. And all of
those trees that have lived for hundreds of years will be knocked over, chipped up, and sent to the landfill. Again, when that land is gone, it's gone. And it will be homes, more homes. So, I'm asking you, the county council, in your
wisdom, I'm asking county staff, I'm asking the PLDRC, and I'm asking anybody who will listen to stop Creek Crossing. Creek Crossing does not need to be developed. That land needs to be preserved in perpetuity. It's a gift
from God. I know it's private property, but there are better things we can do with it. We can purchase it with Val, Valuchia Forever, Echo Funds, Florida forever, whatever we need to do, we need to preserve that land in perpetuity because again, once it's gone, it's gone. And we know what Valuchia County
is becoming. It's becoming a Fort Lauderdale. If you look at any road, the trees are being bulldozed. Apartments and homes are going up in radical numbers. In fact, in 2025, we will have a record number of building permits once again issued in Valia County. So, thank
you for listening. I appreciate it. Please do something to preserve this and other developments as we move through time. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Jan Albert. Good morning, governing body. My name is Jan Albert and I live in a quiet place
in the country. I've been a Valuchia County resident for 45 years and a real estate appraiser for 53 years with a specialty in hydraology. And uh I'm also going to speak about the Creek Crossing proposal even though I
know it's not on the agenda today. It you will be discussing it over these next few weeks. I have never seen in 50 years of land valuation a single property that was more connected to all the other properties hydraologically
than this one. We have the Tamoka Basin pushing southward and then the Leaper preserve being impacted with the Pioneer. So all of the pressure is moving to the east across this area. And
as Mike mentioned, these hardwoods, they've been grow, many have been growing since the 1600s. And even though there's only a 100 foot uh environmental easement, that is in no way sufficient. And if you cut down all this property is
fully treed. And if you cut them down, they the root systems are all interconnected in the hydrochammic soil. So that even if you don't cut the ones at the creek, they will die and be impacted. And then you're going to have
mudslides. And you know, for instance, the 130 homes that would be proposed would usually create about 130 million gallons of storm runoff for every 5 in rain. We I have data for 50 years of how
many rains that we have like that. And we average six or seven of those a year, not including hurricanes. And that's it's it's it's that and the fact that it is the wildlife corridor from the uh uh Farmington
wildlife management. The animals come across through Sand Creek and then into the Spruce Creek basin. So once again, it's a nonrenewable. It can never be brought back. And it just is a shame
that it it is one person's property, but it it it literally it will affect every road, every bridge, and every property east all the way to Rose Bay if it is, you know, built as proposed. So, I'm
asking you to please keep those items in mind and not allow this destruction of a natural resource and a federally protected waterway. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Connie Colby.
Okay, Katherine Pante, you're passing too. Good morning, council. I'm here to express serious concern about what appears to be misuse of funds allocated through Valuchia Echo and Valuchia Forever programs. Specifically, the proposed or ongoing use of these funds to develop a motocross facility. These
programs were created with a clear mandate to protect and enhance our county's environmental, cultural, historic, and outdoor resources. Valuchia Forever was designed to preserve sensitive lands and ecosystems. Echo was built to support quality of life improvements that benefit the entire county rooted in sustainability,
access, and preservation. Using these funds to construct a motocross facility fundamentally violates the spirit and intent of both programs. Motocross facilities are loud, high impact developments with significant environmental and wildlife impacts. They do not align with conservation goals. They do not serve the same broad public
benefit as nature trails, historic preservation sites, or public recreation facilities designed for passive use and environmental education. This decision, if it proceeds, erodess public trust. Taxpayers approved Ekko and Valuchia for Forever with the expectation that those dollars would be used responsibly and with transparency, not redirected
towards niche, high impact recreational developments that contradict programs, purpose, or fund the pet project of a current sitting Councilman Don Dempsey. I want to bring to your attention the comments made during the July 10th, 2025 echo board meeting. During that meeting, motocross track concerns were discussed by some board members. One board member
whose name I do not know said,"I continue to be concerned about motocross." The board continued to say, "Eko has not reviewed the project." Staff replied, "It was sent to you with the other DCE projects and motocross was added in June of 2024." The Echo board member replied, "Review implies input
and it was not reviewed, only presented as information." Board member Nory made a motion to go on record that they do not recommend this motocross project. In addition, Valuchia County resident Keith Chester spoke to the board in reference to transparency concerns and leg legacy
projects. I encourage the public and all of you to listen to that meeting. I want to direct you to the land management mission statement located on Valuchia County's website, paragraph 3 in part as I will run out of time. With the passage of Valuchia forever in 2020, Valuchia County will be adding to these protected conservation lands. These lands have
been acquired for conservation purposes while allowing passive recreation by the residents of Valuchia County and other residents wishing to visit them. Compatible passive recreation includes hiking, biking, bird watching, and wildlife observation. Preserve the integrity of these programs. Direct county inspendures should not be used as
a slush fund for projects that do not reflect the will or the best interest of Valuchia County residents. I urge the council to reconsider and immediately halt any expenditure of Echo or Valuchia forever funds towards this motocross project. Full transparency is owed to the public. Thank you. I also agree with the Cross Creek thing. That land needs
to be preserved. Thank you for your comments, Adam Maker. Good morning. Um, first of all, I absolutely hate public speaking. So, if I'm here is a good reason. Um, and my reason for being here is because I want to get something on the agenda and I was told to come directly to you guys and ask if the meeting would be the best
way. What that is is financial crimes that are facilitated through the Valuchia County Clerk's Office involving pretty much all levels of law enforcement as far as I can tell so far from my investigation. Um, my website and I would encourage everybody to go there. Um, my website is valuciatruth.com.
Pretty simple. Um, the the EV I have over almost 70 victims on my website of financial crimes. The evidence is so incriminating that my site is blocked by FDLE servers, Governor DeSantis servers, and even our local representative, federal representative servers. Um,
uh, outside of that, um, I was as a I want to give you a little depth on how I got brought into this because my main goal is to get this on on the agenda because for example, in 2021, I had almost perfect credit. My credit was an 832 when it was at its highest. Prior to
Valuchia County reporting fraud judgments to my credit profile, um I had, just to give you an example, I had over $100,000 in limits spread across five different American Express cards in 2021. In 2022, all of those cards got reduced down to less than $15,000, about
$15,000 worth of limits. At that time, I didn't know what was going on, but I was researching, investigating, and you know, the results of which you can find on the website. Now, in the process of all this, I filed a federal lawsuit that's now in the appellet process, but I also was able to depose Sheriff Mike Chitwood and Sergeant Jason Stickles.
Both of them pretty much fabricated information throughout. Um, but mainly Sergeant Jason Stickles, who I questioned him about purchasing uh $1.6 million worth of properties, which appear to be purchased in cash. I had one address correct and one address
wrong. He he claimed Well, under I have the deposition with me. I know now's not the time for that, but um he claimed while under oath that he did not own those properties. He did not purchase them. He claimed nothing. Sorry. He claimed nothing to do with any of those properties, which is a lie. The next day on the 2nd when I deposed Chitwood, he
gave me his word. He said that if if if Stickles did and he under oath, I have the paperwork. If Stickles did in fact lie while under oath, he said he would absolutely reprimand him. And no reprimand, nothing. That was months ago and nothing ever happened. You know, um I personally believe this is extremely
high level organized crime. Why else would my website be? Well, you know, I have contacted the FDLE and the FBI many time the FBI get Let me take it a step further. On top of that, I've also was placed on some sort of a terrorist list because when all this was happening to me, I was kind of in shock and I left
the country, left the state. Every time I left the state and country, I was having to like go on a through a special security line. It was it was hell like simply put, you know. But um the comm the my father inherited about $30 million in real estate and used that
money and went on a narcissistic tirade and worked with a bunch of corrupt officers and the results of my investigation can be located on the website. So, you know, please consider it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. That's a lot to unpack.
I'll be back again. Uh, Peggy Hill. Um, good morning. My name is Peggy Hill. I live on, excuse me, Miller Road. Miller Lake is still full. It's still in my front yard. Not only is it fuller than when it's at
was at a lower level, it's fuller than it's ever been. And while Dand and other areas have received a lot of rain, we've gotten very little in our area. Yet, we see very little reduction in the lake level. It's smelly and it's overgrown with lily
pads. The 2017 permit given to Royal Oaks with no objection from the county needs to be revoked. It it was not followed. The county can and should ask for this permit to be
revoked. A drainage pipeline's been created for acres and acres of storm water to go into Miller Lake by way of Unnamed Lake, Unnamed Lake, Royal Oaks, and Tmont Drive. I brought a copy of just one example of this. If you go, if
you slide down to the second page for me, there we go. Highlighted in green. Um, this is a decision uh notice of decision made by St. John's River Water Management District on May 23rd, 2025 for a standalone ER in Orange City.
Notice the receiving body of water is unnamed lake. Why? And why would you be okay with this? Notice all the businesses. Oh, if you go to the map, I'm sorry. If you look on here, you can see where the ERRA is. You can see Unnamed Lake
toward the top and Miller Lake across 1792. That's a long way. And yet, Goose Lake is over to the right, not far away. But as we saw, the decision is made. The notice the receiving body is unnamed
Lake. So along with your responsibility to the residents of Miller Lake, the county also owns property on Miller Lake. It's okay with you to take on acres and acres of other people's storm water. Notice how many businesses are between the er
and unnamed lake. All their storm extra storm water is going to unnamed lake. I don't understand it. It doesn't make any sense when Goose Lake is much closer or keep their own storm water on their own
property. Um, how is it getting from the ER over to Unnamed Lake? It's going up. It doesn't make sense. In the past, St. John St. John's River
Water Management District has stated it must um ha have requests from the county in order to take action. They also said they're willing to help the county regarding the flooding of Miller Lake. Please, council, do something now. The
rains are coming. Ask for the 2017 permit to be revoked. Ask for new permits to be turned down and stop the flooding of Miller Lake. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, County Manager George Rectimal.
Yeah, normally we don't uh respond, but I just wanted to clarify something uh from the picture that was up there. Uh uh I could have Ben Bartlett speak if you need, but the unnamed lake that she's referring to is the wrong unnamed lake. Uh many ponds and lakes are just
called by permit unnamed lake. And so to relieve her uh concern, uh Ben went out and investigated that. And uh and as would be the normal case, they don't allow people to uh move from basin to basin. So they're not moving
water to that unnamed lake. They're moving it to another unnamed pond that's in the basin uh that she described basically uh that heads eventually to Goose Lake. So, uh I don't Ben, can you pull that up real quick?
So, um as Mr. Reckon Wildstead. Uh I reviewed the drainage application by the uh emergency room, freestanding emergency room at the southeast corner of the intersection of Saxon Enterprise. They have it on that map at the correct
location. Um but the uh the system Orange, it's per being permitted within the city limits of Orange City. Oh, not that. I'm sorry. I sent you an email just a second ago. Um, but
they're required to hold not hold the volume on site from a 100redyear 24-hour storm event, which is the uh 11.4 in rain event over 24 hours. Uh, they're actually discharging less water offsite
in the post-development condition according to their calculations than in the pre-development conditions. St. John's also requires an overflow. This is the uh location here and in the upper leftand corner is Miller Lake and uh basically what happens is St.
John's requires an overflow should the storm event exceed the capacity of the pond and that overflow is being proposed for discharge into the rideway of Enterprise Road directly to the west of that uh property. From there, it flows north
into a drainage inlet and is collected into county storm water system that flows east along Saxon towards um Veterans Memorial Parkway. So, it's not even within the basin of Miller Lake. It even any of the overflow that
potentially could occur would not flow towards Miller Lake. And as I said before, they're required, they've done the drainage calculations, they're required by both St. John's requirements and or city requirements which actually match Felia County requirements if they were to be
developing in the unincorporated area. It requires them to hold any additional volume on site greater than what is discharged in the pre-development condition and they're actually doing that according to their calculations. So
um and that is with a foot of freeboard in the pond. So they hold that water and they still have an additional foot of freeboard in the pond which is what we typically require as well. Um so they should be holding considerably more water on their site in the post-development condition than the
pre-development condition. And I if they do have an overflow situation it flows east. As Mr. Rittonwald said multiple ponds in this area have no name. Therefore they're typically referred to as unnamed pond. Jer may ask a quick question. Um, yes.
Uh, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, if I understand you correctly, um, this project that's happening in the Orange City jurisdiction, uh, according to the calculations that are being proposed by the engineers, they are going to retain more water
after the development than in the current status of the land. Is that what the projections are saying? So, their calculations show a slightly less discharge in terms of volume and they have to still maintain during those storm events. they can't discharge at a higher rate. So, it's a lower rate and a lower they're going to hold more water than it
stands as the current and that's to the 100redyear 24-hour storm event. And then in the event that there is an outfall that exceeds their capacity, it's not going to flow towards Miller Lake. Is that what you're saying? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Who who was the engineer?
Uh I believe it was HDR, but don't hold me to that. I I don't remember exactly. Okay. And uh and one other thing just to point out, the Miller Lake uh elevation has dropped how much since June? Uh as of this morning, the lake is down
just over 10 in since the middle of June. Any other questions? This is this is important. It's important enough that we stop the uh public comment to to deal with it. these um
people that live on Millow Lake Sha Shady Lane are here every meeting. Several of us have been out there, looked at the property. So, I I think it's uh I think it's a right thing to do to to uh stop and comment. I appreciate
you doing that. They probably don't agree with what you have said. Have you have you had this discussion with any of of the Miller Lake people? No, I we just this is some research we done being aware of this potential development um
as being a concern for Miller Lake and we just want to make clear that where the water was going and what the uh engineer is doing to hold that water on site. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for Ben?
I don't see any. Thank you, Gary Singleton. My name is Gary Singleton. I'm a resident of District 3. Get this thing up here. I'm here to speak about the Creek
Crossing PUD. From 1,000 ft up, it is obvious that developing this property is crazy. The trees are so thick you can't see the ground or the creek. A single mature oak can consume a 100 gallons of water a day
and transpire over 40,000 gallons of water a year. Imagine the amount of rainwater currently being held by this property allowed to absorb into the ground to refresh our drinking water and pulled up into the thick growth of trees
and plants to transpire before producing any runoff into Spruce Creek. Creek crossing development will destroy an ecological system capable of holding and absorbing and transpiring millions of gallons of rainwater.
You're going to replace this perfect system with impermeable surfaces and grossly inadequate retention ponds. The banks of Spruce Creek have a history of already overflowing and flooding local properties.
The only people who would want to destroy this perfect natural ecosystem, replacing it with impermeable surfaces and retention ponds are driven by greed. This is a challenge for this council to
listen to Valuchia County citizens and not the development lobby. The line is clear. You represent us or you represent them. Every vote is another demonstration of whose side you are on. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments, Dave Kmer. Uh Dave Kramer, Shady Lane, Miller Lake, uh discussing the uh flooding there. And thank you for the previous discussion. If I understand that correctly, the new
Orange City building permit goes into a different unnamed lake, not the unnamed lake that uh flows into Miller Lake. And as far as the lake going down 10 in since mid June, uh if we're talking
vertical 10 in of land, then that's true. But 10 in of water going down, uh that's not what we show. And this is uh also regarding the 2017 Royal Oaks permit to uh please have that
revoked. Um, now last month's uh July 22nd meeting, there was a discussion of Miller Lake. At the end of that meeting, I just want to clarify uh a few things. And Mr. Brower, thank you for noting that the Miller Lake residents do come here and
speak and we do get up and leave, but as you mentioned, we do go home and watch the rest of the meeting and wait to see if there's any discussion on Miller Lake. Um, and we do that because we're not able to talk and have a discussion here.
Uh, at the end of that meeting on July 22nd, Mr. Reckenwald was asked about Miller Lake. He said one of the residents on there is not a home that it's a trailer. So, just want to ensure you that it is a home. If it was a trailer, I'd hook my truck up to it and
move it 30 ft. It's a over,000 square ft single family manufactured mobile home. The previous owner was there for decades and and we've almost been there for a decade. Our homestead exemption was on that. We're in the process of changing it since the home is uninhabitable.
Mr. Rectenwald, you also noted that uh by definition that residence was not flooded. So, uh FEMA came out, they declared that it was flooded. So, by definition it was flooded. They also noted to one or more of the neighbors that they couldn't do anything because it's a man-made
problem. and that's related to the 2017 Royal Oaks permit. Uh now there is a there is discussion of what St. John's River management is is responsible for FDOT or having to work with Orange City or Deerry and and that's all
understandable. Uh just want to note on as you'll see on your website of what the county's jurisdiction is. We'll just read that first sentence. Valuchia County is responsible for storm water management, drainage maintenance, and flood mitigation efforts in unincorporated
areas. All of us are are unincorporated on Miller Lake, Shady Lane, Miller Road, Alice Drive. This is all unincorporated and that's why we continue to come here and and ask for your help, especially in
rescending that permit. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Catherine Levenson. Good morning everybody. So good morning. Um I just want to go through a few things just to remind you
that I have talked to you about all the storm water from the west side of Orange City is coming into Miller Lake. I'm sorry. Katherine Levenson Shady Lane Miller Lake. Sorry, I forgot to say that. So, all the storm water from Orange City is intentionally flooding us. We already know that. We've established that. Um, I want to
establish, too, that I want to remind you that we have a hundred-year grave site from the Civil War on our property, and nobody cares. Um, also, I told you about our animals. They can't drink the water from the lake because it's so polluted. They get sick
and vomit. It's terrible. Also, we are a wildlife corridor for bears, panthers, coyotes, bobcats, alligators, turtles, bats, deer, and we're being flooded and it has killed thousands of oak trees that are 100 150 years old. Thousands. They're dead, dead, dead, falling over.
Um, our lake is still flooded. I I appreciate what Mr. Bartlett said. I don't agree with it. The lake maybe has gone down this way, but not this way. We flooded 19 ft after Milton. 19 ft. a depth. It's crazy. And we're still flooded.
It'll be a year in October and we're still flooded. Um, Mr. Santiago, Mr. Renwald was correct. We do watch these uh shows from our home every single time. It's easier at home because I can go to the bathroom, put it on pause, feed my dogs,
take my dogs out, go on a on a trip, and come back, whatever. We do watch. I see everything that happens. I hear everything that happens. And the reason we leave is because we can't answer. You put a person up like Mr. Barllet last time. I have great respect for him. But
uh he cherrypicked everything he said. He didn't put down actual facts that I believe. He put down cherrypicked things. So it's easier for me to see it at home and throw paper at my TV than to be here where I can't even talk. So that's why we leave. So I watch every
minute of it and so does a lot of people. Um, it's kind of amazing how the texts go back and forth between everyone after those meetings. Um, let me go back. Mr. Renwald, I heard your solutions. I just want to know when
you're going to start them because you said you had solutions. I heard you and some of them are very good. Problem is, you don't want to start them till we flood again. Well, we're already flooded. What's going to happen when we drown? I don't want to face that. I'd rather fix it first. But thank you.
Let's get to moving on it. You got a lot of funds. We know you have millions and millions of dollars. Let's see you do something. And thank you to Mr. Brower for sticking up for us. I appreciate it. You're the only one who did and I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Have a
good night. Uh Denanisha uh Sterns Do I have your name right? Hello, my name is Denanishia Sterns and I live in Samsula Estates uh as part of the larger um Charles Street community
and I'm here today to talk about uh the reasonzoning application um also known as Cross Creek and I want to ask you and tell you how you can be heroes. You can be heroes to the people of Aluchia
County. You can be heroes to everyone here in this forum. I've heard it said that the council has no choice in what a property owner does with their property. I disagree. You get to choose by way of resone the resoning application and by
the permitting process. What happens? You'll get the opportunity to vote on this resoning application soon based on the recommendation from the PLDRC. Um, and it can end in either triumph or it can end in tragedy. Tragedy. Well,
how would that happen? Wouldn't it benefit the county? New houses equals more property uh tax revenue, sales tax revenue, and maybe just a few more people to the local workforce. Well, tragedy is because it's the belief that many people in this forum um that
reszoning these parcels as a PUD would open the door for a housing density that would create more of a flood to a thread uh flood and flood threat to the existing homes as well as to the new proposed homes. Okay? And this is uh
it's just not acceptable. the increase in traffic would increase a threat to our walkers and to our bikers. Um the if we flood the property values will not only decrease but according to um uh one of the gentlemen that just
spoke uh there may not be any uh recourse with FEMA to be able to recoup on the loss. Okay, this would be a tragedy to our people. Uh it would be a tragedy if we lost confidence in our county council
who proposed to speak for us and proposed to make decisions. It would but this vote could also end in triumph. Okay. Not in the creation of a development project that oh wow we did something that um beat the odds and we thought no one else could do. Okay. But
as the heroes protecting uh your county, its communities, preserving the nature of the rural lifestyle in this particular area, defending what can't defend itself, the ecosystem of the Spruce Creek waterway, you can triumph as heroes by refusing to allow any more
pollutants to threaten this waterway, which is a protected water of the United States uh and a repairarian h um protection zone. Uh you can preserve the recreational value of uh the East Brush Creek and
this waterway. You can triumph as heroes by protecting your own comprehensive plan. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for your comments, Don Lombardi. Well, good morning. Uh, my name is Don
Lombardi and I reside at the Riverwood Plantation subdivision located along Spruce Creek. Um, and I have with me a letter from our HOA president saying that our HOA is is
indeed against the Spruce Creek Spruce Crossing or Creek Crossing development. Sorry. I'd like to submit that to somebody before I continue. Is that all right? Yes. Yeah. Give it to Cararissa. Thank you.
Uh so I have um before retiring as a land consultant in the state of Florida for over 30 years um and helping large land owners um developers of all sizes,
commercial and residential ma all the major home builders. Um, I have never seen a project that had so many things wrong with it and made no
sense at all as a viable residential development site. Regardless of all the wonderful um things that have been said here tonight about environmental impacts and all those other things and how terrible it
would be to damage those things. My purpose today and is to say that in my opinion with the bridge that has to be built across there which will cost tens of
millions of dollars to to fit the requirement that it be at least one foot over the flood plane on its entire span which is that's a requirement of the state of Florida and therefore
uh this county as well. So, this concept plan is so vague. It's not really you don't know what you're really approving or I I don't know what you're really approving at this point. Um, it's
my understanding that that PDS, PUDs are plan unit developments that are site plan specific zoning, right? And so this is a concept plan and the development order is written so vaguely that you can put just about
anything on there as long as it's residential. I mean you can modify the sizes, you can modify the accesses, you can do all those things. That development order is baloney in my opinion. It needs to be really tight down. Okay. Uh the the other thing is
that running at 5 seconds. Well, I'm going to say thank you. We're going to be around for a long time. We're going to look at everything very carefully and very professionally and you'll be seeing us a lot of times. Thanks. Thank you very much. And Chrissa, will you make sure we get a copy of of that?
Uh John Nicholson, John Nicholson, Daytona Beachside. Every Sunday I go to about a dozen uh city locations uh to check on them, see if there's any damage um etc. So I can tell David on Monday morning there's been a problem, there's uh damage or whatever.
Uh when I hit city island, the new um memorial, this was lying on the ground. All right. Rather than have somebody steal it, I took it figuring well I'll bring it here, give it to whoever has it, and put it back up. Well, surprisingly within
two days it was replaced. If you look at the back of it, it just tacked on. I fell several others that are loose. Is there some way of making these permanent? Secondly, is there a way of replacing them? It's a bit cheesy. If you look at that memorial,
it's solid as a rock. It this does not fit that. So, I'm wondering if we could uh put something more substantial. If not, make it more solid so that it can't be pulled off. Secondly, uh if you look at the flags,
uh they're all one is sort of kind of not faded. All the others are almost faded beyond uh recognition. It is when I grew up, you did not fly faded flags. They were replaced. So, I'm asking you to take a look at those and if we have
to upgrade the quality of the flags so they don't it's not been that long. It's only been two three months and flags are not meant to fade that quickly. Um, also I want to bring up again half penny sales tax.
We are not made of money. If we put in a penny sales tax, it's an automatic 30 or 40% grant to anything we do because outsiders pay
the tourist 30 to 40% of what the sales tax is. And the federal government is getting less and less grants. We have to find other ways to make sure that we get done what we have to do, especially uh flooding. You've heard it again. Miller
Lake has been here forever. Uh, Midtown in Daytona Beach has been around forever. All the others are coming into place. So, I'm asking you to think about the half the penny, not half penny. And I just realized I I read an article. It was 44 million that we would have raised
for a half penny sales tax. It's now 68 million for a half penny sales tax. That's $150 million a year to help us with infrastructure and flooding. I think we really should look at it. And
lastly, I want to talk about the city of Daytona Beach and its resoning. It's something that you all have to pay attention to. Uh I will talk more about it. I'm running out of time, but that design was 1970. That's 50 years ago.
The next time we have an opportunity is 10 years from now. Thank you. John, before you go, would you go back to the room and see Tim Bailey? Are you coming up here? Tim Bailey, parks, recreation, and culture director. And just to give everyone an answer on what what uh we
were just talking about here. So, um the installer uh was taking off the temporary markers. those were temporary and he wanted to see if they were going to be easy to come off and then if they were without pulling paint off uh he was going to reapply reapply the the
permanent markers the very next day. So that was one of those markers where he pulled pulled off then reaffixed came back the next day and put the permanent markers there. That's why that was there. Permanent markers are in the site right now. I missed what he said. Which memorial is it? That's the Veterans Memorial Plaz
and Daytona. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Thank you, John. Uh Jake Johansson, so quickly, Tim, so so we shouldn't arrest John for removing uh government property. I had alerted the bail. I thought maybe
he does have stolen property in his hands. I I was going to ask him to find an A and a T and a T. And nice. We are also available for questions ourselves before and after the meeting on these things like this. Okay. Thank you.
Yes. Okay. Uh Jeremy Kerenus. Uh good morning, council. Jeremy Keragenis. I'm the president of Lucia County Firefighters Local 3574. Uh I'm here today for the fire fund and the importance of the flat military. Uh we have a social media following,
25,000 people, mainly our citizens here in this county. And this topic's been getting a lot of traction. And I can tell you they're all supporting us. You can feel free to read the comments on your own. But a couple of you asked me last minute to do some convincing, and I did what most middle-aged guys do. I go
to the pickle ball court uh to clear my head. I ended up with this uh 81-year-old uh female named Joyce. Big fan of us. Uh we turned to our opponents and uh it was a formal county councilman. He wasn't a big fan of us
and his decisions negatively impacted us for many years to come. After we beat him, he came up to me and surprisingly made comments about the past and he seemed a little remorseful about his decisions that he had to make.
That moment reminded me of this council. You guys are a good council, one willing to work together, listen, and even change the course when it's the right thing to do. It reminded me of the times when it was the union who went out lobbyed the public for a higher military, not for
payraises, but to prevent forest stations from shutting down and our citizens supported it. And this is the kind of community commitment that was hard-earned and worth protecting. Today, we have a chance to keep moving forward. George has done a lot of good
things for FIRE, and while I don't agree with everything he does, he's been good to us. But let's face it, he answers to you guys and his staff does too. And he's doing his job trying to build a conservative budget that reflects your guys' priorities.
But I think there's a few questions you could ask. Do the fire trucks go out of service leaving areas uncovered because we're riding in on ambulance? Does it happen 2% of the time to 100% of the time? It doesn't matter. That one time is too many if it's your emergency. And
does this council accept that risk? Do we have any potential unfunded liabilities we're not considering? If times get hard, can we pull from the general fund? Can we improve the service, delivery, and quality of life to our citizens by using a flat rate? Can we do this by
adding more firefighters? We're the only ones required to be paramedics in this county. This is about keeping your fire department strong and ready, not just for today, but for tomorrow. Whatever this council decides, I just want our citizens to know our commitment never
changes. We will come for you. Thank you for your comments. Um Stephanie Cox. Good morning, chair and county council members. I don't come a whole lot, but I do send a few emails. I started out I
was just going to mention that I really wanted you to go with the roll back on taxes because our economy and our paychecks haven't kept up with each other. So, when that does come up, I would like you to consider the roll back
on that. But sitting here listening today, I'm hearing a whole lot more problems. I'm hearing about Miller Lake again. Uh I'm hearing about Cross Creek. I agree with a lot of the people that have spoke on that. We have to start
protecting and not let our oak trees go away. We We've lost so many of them. I think Edgewater had what, a thousand recently that they agreed to take away.
You can't replace those in our lifetime and our water recharge needs them. Besides that, they're beautiful. And then lastly, I want to talk to you about SB 180. I know it's on the agenda.
We need to group together with all the cities to join in and amend that bill. That bill is taking away our home rule. It's not right. They don't know what
goes on in our communities. We do. We're the citizens. I've been in Valuchia County since 1978. So, we really need to consider all these things. Like I said, I've written emails. I've got answers from a couple,
but not all of you. I don't know why you can't answer my emails. So, that's why I'm here today. I want to talk about what's going on in Valuchia and correct it. So, thank you so much. I appreciate the time.
Thank you. And that concludes the uh public comments for um for the morning. You also have an opportunity to speak on any item and then we have another um another uh
public comment period at the end. And before we move on to the next item, uh Michael Dyer. Yes, sir. Thank you. Uh just for the benefit of those who spoke, I know they uh spoke on an upcoming project that will come before you is I understand it
will be a quasi uh judicial hearing. So uh I you have not responded uh during a meeting which I think is good. Uh you basically said as a judge upon the criteria at that time. If you do get uh
contacted, that would be just something you have to disclose with exparte communication. Just bring a copy of it. We can make it part of the record. Um but you will have a hearing if the project proceeds at some point. Do we we don't have an idea yet when
that will be because it's got to go to PLDRC first and it's not yet scheduled for there, is it? That's it's still in the planning stage. It's not. Yes, you're correct. All right. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Uh, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was contemplating whether I wanted to comment on this, but I just want to and and Mr. Dyer, thank you for sharing the uh the good legal advice. And to the folks from that community, I have no idea what this project is. Um, it's not
before us. No memos, nothing's come before me. And um, and so I can't opine on it, my opinion on it. But I think it's important to for you all to know from the community our legal obligation here because it's a quasi judicial type
of hearing. We act as judges. We can't and we shouldn't comment on our thoughts on a specific project because then we poison the well and we put the county in huge legal liability at that point. So our our jobs if done it prop properly is
to wait for the hearing to come before us with all the facts, the testimony from the public, the testimony from the applicant and then judge at that point what we're going to do. So, if you don't hear commentary from members of this council, I want you to understand that
we are following our legally required process to give everybody uh justice and and due process to appeal to their government. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay, that takes us to uh item one at
100 um the approval of the agenda. And I would like to request one uh change um and that is to move item uh 17 which is the Senate bill 180 to uh move it up to
item uh 3A. So it would come after the motocross discussion item three and before item four. Uh and the reason is just because we have a very full uh menu today. Um very full agenda and I want to make sure that we get to it. There are
people here that are here for that discussion. Uh chairman um clarification please. Yeah. I'm fine making that motion. I'm just you know I'm a rule follower and it says presentations. Uh never mind. That's other business. I withdraw what I was
going to say. That's other business not presentations. So, chairman, I I'll make the motion to approve the uh agenda as presented with the uh caveat of moving item 17 to 3A. And motion is made by Troy Kent. Is
there a second? Just need a second to move this up so that we get to it today. We can't afford to to uh put it off for another two weeks. No second. It's a simple request.
Okay. Uh I'll go ahead and second it, chair. Okay. Thank you. Uh Matt Reinhardt makes the second. Any discussion? David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, I I get it. It's an item on the agenda, but I don't see the urgency, Mr. Chair. We we
have several things that are on here that I don't want to say are are not important or just as important. I just don't see the need to move it. Um as Troy kind of started out on on the rules base, we have a process. I think there needs to really be extenduating
circumstances um to to make changes. And I don't see it. I want to get to it, don't get me wrong, but I don't see the the justification for for making the change. Um, and I I know you're concerned that it may not meet the deadline today. We
we could extend if we so choose to. Um, and if we didn't get to it, the the legislature is not meeting till October, excuse me, November. So, we have time. This is a proposed amendment. So, there's really no rush to make an
adjustment. Now, if this if the legislature were meeting next month, I say, "Let's do it. Let's make sure we get it in." So, this is not shutting it down. I just from a rules and procedures perspective, I don't see the urgency to make the change. I say stick to the agenda and we'll get to it when we get to it. Well, I'm following the the rules number
one. Number two is that there is a there is a huge urgency from the public and you know I I'm hearing it every day and yes, it's true that the session doesn't start to November. The urgency for me is that we get the
the county attorneys have already done the work. They've done really good work and and made very simple, clear, easy to understand changes that helps us to retain local control. This is about local control. I'm not willing to give
it up. I don't think you are either. Um, so the the urgency is that that gives us between today and if if it was passed, it allows the legal staff to begin the process of working with our lobbyists,
working with John Booker, working with all of us and working with the public and working with every city. The cities are asking us, please do something. And so I'm responding to them. Um, I heard from the city of Edgewater last night,
please help us. Um, so, uh, to me, I think the urgency is I don't want to see it put off for another two weeks. Uh, um, Mr. Kent, thank you, Chairman. I made the motion because you asked, chairman, and you you
are in the um unique position that you can't make motions um given your your um position on this elected body. and council, I I would have made the motion if any of you asked. I'm just I'm that guy that's going to try to help you get there. But Mr. Santiago, you bring up a
great point. So, I'm going to vote to do this, but if it gets voted down, I think we're going to get to it today. I'm not worried about it and I'll vote to I'll make a motion to do the agenda as presented. So, either way, I'm good to go. I just wanted you all to know. Last comment, Mr. Chair.
Okay. Councilman Santiago. And I'm okay with voting on it, gentlemen. It's it's just more of a procedural thing for me, right? I I think we're going to get to it. I didn't hear the three alarm siren uh going off. If you remember, I made the suggestion. The chair's leadership took us to this point. I made the motion to do an
amendment to Senate Bill 180. So, it's not it's not the topic that we're going to discuss. So, if the votes up, I'll vote for it. It's not a big deal. I just I I I'm I'm a purist in the perspective of if we're going to make changes to it, let's make a good justification. I think we're gonna get to it. So, I'm prepared
to vote, Mr. Chair. And and David, I'll just say this if I may, Mr. chair. One of the things I admire about you, you're consistent and you're a procedure guy and you've said that since our first meeting and I love that you hold hold true to it. So, thanks. No, uh the whole reason we have item
one, approval of the agenda is so that we can do things like this if if we need to. This is procedure. It's pro there's there's no improper procedure here. And for for me, for the public, there is a tremendous sense of of urgency. Um so,
we'll see. Uh uh, Councilman Reinhardt, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Um, and I second it for this very discussion before we go any further. If that you want to talk procedural, um, either way, I'm I'm fine either way. I think we'll get to it also. But, um,
creatures of habit, you know, we have moved items up before in the past. When we saw the audience, there was a large gathering of individuals here about a specific topic and we have moved items up before. Uh, of course those meetings used to go till 3:00 in the morning, but
nonetheless, uh, and we do have rules for that now, but either way, I'm fine with it. But I wanted to make mention as to why. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Uh, any other discussion? Carissa, would you call the role? Mr. Johansson? No. Mr. Kent,
yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Dempsey? Yes, Mr. Brower. Yes. Okay. So, uh
the agenda is slightly modified. Item 17 will be 3A between 3 and 4. Uh thank you, council. I appreciate that. Um does anyone have an item they would like to pull from the consent agenda for a vote? Let's start there. Uh Councilman
Robbins. Not for a vote, Chair, but uh item C. uh for comment. Comment only. Comment only. Anyone else? Chairman, I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. Second. Johansson makes a motion to
approve consent agenda as presented. And the second uh was by Jake Johansson. Any other questions? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And the consent agenda is passed seven to zero. And we will have a
comment on item uh C. Do you need staff chair? The main main purpose of this uh had some questions from from the public uh to pretty much just talk about the mitigation plan, how it helps us here in Valuchia, the strides that we're making towards
uh some of our goals uh funding funding opportunities. So, I'd love to hear more about that from you guys. So, thank you so much. Good morning. So, uh good morning, council. Uh again, my name is Clint Mikum. I am your county uh emergency management director. Uh the
local mitigation strategy is is um one of the required plans uh that FEMA and the state puts uh forth to us uh that we have to renew every year or every five years, excuse me. And um this is uh the time uh one of the requirements uh in
order to receive uh post- disaster mitigation funding like the hazard mitigation grant program is to have a approved LMS in place. It has been reviewed by the state. It has been approved by FEMA as well. So, this puts us in a good position to make sure that we uh are using those that we're
eligible for those funds and we're using those funds effectively. The uh LMS committee uh the local mitigation strategy committee is the committee that decides the priorities uh and and puts forth uh those things that are on the um uh on the on the project list. Uh the
representation is from all of our communities across um Valuchia County. Uh and they decide on those projects. the the the plan itself is reflective of of what we deem to be uh important as far as strategies and processes by which
we utilize those funds and we continue to strive to make Valuchia County as resilient as possible moving forward. Um that's that's the high level overview. Uh Council Member Robbins, is there something more specific I can answer for you, sir? No. Uh sir, that was that was perfect.
Um this just goes to show you know uh what we are doing in addition to everything else to make sure that that these projects are uh not just identified and addressed but funded as well. So I appreciate you guys and all the hard work uh that that you guys do. Thank you very much sir.
Councilman Santiago. Hold on. Don't go anywhere. Yeah. And I don't know if this is was was your responsibility and I apologize George that I didn't bring this up to you earlier. So, but but I in in addition, I think to that, I want to thank um the staff that put together that website on the flooding uh information, the work that the county
that is huge. Um and uh for those in the members of the public that don't know what I'm talking about, the county prepared a a website that shows all of the details. And if I could, Mr. Chair, maybe if George can just give a quick synopsis of what's going to be available there for the members of the public to
see. Well, the main part is is it's to show the effort of what we're doing on a daily basis. So, if you'll notice, we're putting a lot more information out there about where our road and bridge crews are, what canals they're working on, what things are coming up because
there's a general concern in the in the uh in the county uh for that we're not doing anything. And and again, we're doing uh uh yman's work uh as people are out there every day and uh doing what we
we do best, maintaining, clearing canals, upgrading pipes. Um there are other larger uh capital projects that are on in in planning. Uh we're talking about those as well. Unfortunately, I know people are not patient and I I don't blame them, but uh I'm not either
in a lot of these cases, but we do have to uh do the proper permitting, planning, design, uh in the world that we live in today, uh if if you don't do that, uh it will come back to bite you later on. So, uh we do do that. It also
allows us to continue to get federal funding and funding from other sources when we do it correctly. But that unfortunately does translate into times. I know there was some comments earlier. Um those project uh and a lot of our projects require partners, so other
governments and and that only adds to it as well. But all that's on that website. We're going to keep people updated. What's the landing page for that for people to see? Where should they go? Well, they can start just go to valia.org and and then we highlight it on the one of the first pages. Okay. So,
uh Suzanne can update that. Uh, and just an additional comment, you may have noticed we are starting a monthly storm water newsletter delivered via email to those who wish to receive it and we're taking uh subscriptions, if you will, to
that newsletter. I think it's on that website page as well and those of interest are welcome to uh follow us in that manner as well. Thank you, George, and thank you, Susan. And and I want to I urge the citizens of Valuchia to sign up for that newsletter.
Go to that website. Um in today's world, there's a lot a lot a lot of fake news out there. And at least here you'll see firsthand from us what the county is doing. So when you hear something, go to the source. And if your question the source, reach out to any one of us. I'm
sure we'll get you some answers. But please go to the source. Ignore the social media fake news world. go to our website and hear firsthand. I want to applaud staff for highlighting all of the work because there's hundreds of millions of dollars dedicated out there
that are going to be spent in this county to address many things including probably things that are important to those that are here today or watching. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Councilman Johansson. Yes. I I just like to kind of capitalize on what they've been saying. it it's not
just the county projects, it's geographically countywide. We're starting to uh gather this the city's information too and and put it in the same website. So, and that's the first time for us doing So, so we're talking about collaborative
projects and and information uh uh geographically coinciding with each other. so we're not interfering with other people's projects. We know who's doing what and maybe we can piggy back off of those for good things. So, uh, get on that
website. Uh, you know, we hear a lot here sitting up here about I didn't know, I wasn't informed. How can I find out? That website is going to be everything storm water that that we can come up with as long as the cities
continue to participate in. and we have a we have a little clubhouse of folks that are willing to participate. So, that's going to work out. Thank you, chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Clint. Thank you.
Thank you, Danny, for uh bringing that up. And so, we are we will move on to uh item three. Um staff needs direction on the development
management op options for an outdoor motorized recreation park. Dr. Burbal. Good morning council members. Brad Berbal, director of community services. So Tim Bailey and I who's our director of parks and recreation are going to tag team the presentation. So there was a
comprehensive briefing document along with the agenda and it kind of uh coincides with the order of the slides today. So um we're really focusing uh with a public private partnership on minimizing taxpayer risk while maximizing community benefit. There's
multiple viable pathways on on how to get there and that's what we're going to present to you today. Make a decision on whether to provide direction or not. All right. So, I got the clicker figured out. Brad, yes. Can you hold one second? I just was
informed that the live link for the meeting is not working. I just wanted to let them hear that in the back. So, go ahead. Sure. So, um you know, we're going to we're not going to go over every single slide of the presentation. So we first
are going to this was from the Hunden feasibility study that we hired to do and said uh talking with professionals around the nation. This is what really what you need in order to have a track that uh attracts na uh regional and national events. So two tracks um both
for practice and tournament um RV slips and support facilities. So uh we also have a strategic location and the one that we are uh considering now on 44 uh next to the gun range. So if you look at development models,
what we're asking you today is to look at both a development model and an operational model for the facility. So when we're looking at the development models, you know, it's a full public development. You can look at um
essentially each model has different risk tolerance levels and that's really what a public private partnership does is transfers some of the risk to the private sector. We also get some benefits as well. Um you know private involvement typically reduces taxpayer
exposure as you can see in the scenario the different scenarios and revenue potential increases with private sector expertise involved in the project as well. When we're talking about the investment and risk comparison, I think that you
know the private models are what really transfer operational expertise and market risk to the project or or transferred their operational expertise um and the the risk. County maintains the revenue opportunities while reducing our financial exposure as you can see in
this model. And the land lease models provides a steady income with minimal investment. So that is where we would just put the you know the basically the land lease out to bid and have someone develop uh the track and the amenities. Typically on these you would see longer
term leases 30 40 50 years so that they can uh have a return on their investment. So what is the the process look like for a P3? So P3 is uh the the process is outlined in Florida statutes and it's a different approach and this is you know
we're working with a a consultant that is doing the uh the Bennett Park uh P3 because you gave us direction to do that. And so what they'll do essentially is um want to know what council's goals are. So as we have this conversation,
you know, is your goal to have a capital investment and then no um operational support? you would you like to provide no operational support going forward? Um do you want it to be an economic development focus? You know what what do you what is your
expectation in terms of uh a financial return? So that's important to these consultants as they look at partners and engage partners. So what they'll do is they have six different models uh five on this slide rather. So they
have a financial model for each of these and if we go to the consultant say we want to do a public private partnership they will run the numbers based on the different amounts of money that we're getting um maybe from a public finance option also sponsors they look at they
look at multiple um vendors who will also contribute so it's more of a shared cost development and then they'll bring these models back to you and that's when you will make a decision as to what model you would like to to use to develop and operate the track. So, just
a a quick P3 lesson there. And then once they've um they actually will develop the model, take it out to market, talk to people that potentially would um bid on the project um you know, tighten it up a little, make any changes that they
feel the market needs in order to be successful, and then that's when we would put out a request for proposals for private partners. So Tim, are you up? Okay. So that was the development options. Tim's going to talk about
operational models now. Okay. Good morning. I'm Tim Bailey, parks, recreation, and culture director. And on this, this is where we're really talking about the operational models. Uh some key points on this particular slide. Private operations demonstrate superior financial performance. As you
can see on the slide, uh county operations require specialized expertise uh in the development or the operations of the track. And then concession model uh provides guaranteed returns but minimal risk. And on this slide uh the takeaways here
uh private operations consistently outperform across key metrics. uh the industry uh expertise accelerates the break even point uh or timeline and then the higher attendance is generated uh is generated uh with increased economic
impact. And on this slide here you'll see that the private operations generate substantially higher economic impact. There's an additional $69 million in economic activity over a 30-year time span. And then job creation and tax
revenue benefits extend beyond the facility's operations. And on this slide here, the county operations require we would require uh significant expertise in the operational portion of this uh of the site. uh mitigation strategies would uh involve
hiring specialized external uh experts in the industry. And then the success would really depend on the building of the industry relationships to uh to to build those uh uh tournament play and and uh competitive sports as well as
operational knowledge. And on this slide, private operation risk. Uh we're talking about private partnerships which require robust robust uh partner selection and oversight. Also looking at performance-based contracts but align private incentives with public
objectives. And then regular monitoring ensures the community service standards are maintained. And on this uh partic what we're looking for here is um is to uh review the development model preferences from council and then uh provide direction on
operational approach andor development approach and then authorize staff to proceed with the preferred uh pathway. Um I will say that uh I I invited two industry experts here. They're here uh I think you've heard them speak before. Jason Mororrow and
Jason Jason Mora and Jason Baker uh both have uh constructed sites uh and and their operational processes as well as you know competition and national competition. So uh and they're here during public participation to uh to speak on the topic.
Thank you. Some questions for you. Uh we'll start with uh Troy K. Thank you chairman Mr. Bailey. Um, I'll get you my question just in just one brief moment here. And the question is
for you, Mr. Bailey, but council, I was I was blown away to find out 10 years ago in the city of Orman Beach, and I suspect this is everywhere everywhere, that every recreation piece you provide
in a city, municipality is subsidized by the government. There's not one where the user fee completely pays for what you're doing. Can you go back to
that slide, Mr. Bailey, where it showed the annual cost to the county? It's like 300,000. There we go. So, and
council, I'll just say in Orman Beach 10 years ago, the most subsidized piece of recreation was baseball softball to the tune of $1,400
per participant. And and I was shocked. I tell you that because I didn't know it and maybe you don't know it, but Don, when I see what the annual cost is, I'm not as bashful about that because of
what I know about what everyone else pays to have recreation in a community. Mr. Bailey, here's the question. How do you know? And if you don't, it's okay. You can get it to me and all of us later. I don't mean to put you on the spot.
What is the number in dollars of what the county subsidizes for recreation currently? So, I'm going to answer it two different ways. Sure. Um so when we run uh sports
or some kind of um individually consumed recreational activity, we rec we recover uh we require the recovery recovering of all the expenses that are directly related to that particular uh activity. Right? So and
let me give you for instance. So, if we run um a uh teacher duty day bus camp and we've got uh 30 participants and I needed 35 participants to break even on the costs, we don't run the program. Uh
we have to recover our costs on those particular individual events. Now, when it comes to maintaining a ball field and the revenue we get from field rental, we never break even. That's just from field rental. But if we're running an individual sport, an activity, we have
to break even. That is interesting to learn today. Um I'm I'm surprised I would say pleasantly surprised to learn that for some of those individual sports, you don't run
it un unless it breaks even. That's correct. But I don't know that I'm 100% there with you because if you're taking a group of of students somewhere on a teacher duty day is the cost factored in to purchase the vehicle that's driving them. It's the bus. We have to recover the
cost of the bus to recover the cost of the bus driver. The direct expenses that's an incrementally direct expense related to that. It doesn't cover my time. It wouldn't cover you know the office staff time but it does cover all those direct expenses. Does it do you
have a number for me as to what the county spends on recreation every year? Do not I can get that. Yeah, I I knew you could. We do not. Yeah. And I threw that at you. You had no idea that was coming from me. So, yeah, if you'll when you get a break
y text your text your your uh your team and say, "Hey, if we can get this, find it out, please." Yeah. There's one thing I wanted to add to that. So, uh, there's one recreational asset that actually does recover its cost from from an
operational standpoint, and that's trails. Uh, when I look at, uh, the cost to build and to maintain a trail and the and the increased revenue we bring in because the trail was built, it all it exceeds the cost of the maintenance and
development of that trail, purchasing the property where the trail is located. That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. I I will add uh Commissioner Kent that earlier this year Tim and I did an analysis and we're at about 20% cost recovery when we look at our programs.
So um and that's above the national average. Oh 20%. So the county spending subsidizing 80%. Thank you. Mr. Bailey I have a question for you. Uh before I
ask it, we're Ben always gets this. I I want to say that you are the best in the state of Florida at what you do and I really appreciate uh your leadership uh in Valuchia County. Would you please
I'm going to hold my comments till to that portion of our debate here. Would you just explain to me what the concession model is? Right. So when you're looking at like we would per the county potentially would perform under that particular model. We'd perform the the general maintenance
like the facility access we would we would govern and the general maintenance of this the track we would govern. But in terms of uh food concessions, apparel concessions, special event marketing and promotion, those national tournaments
that would be contracted out with a concession and those would be a fixed fee kind of setup potentially. And then you you could also govern you know a percentage of sales but that's what the concession model is. So the county would share some of the profit from that. Y
okay and then you said that we get income from trails. How how you calculate that? That's really interesting. Yeah. So, we and I we've been doing this a while at the at the state level and doing analysis on economic impacts for
for homes built residential property as well as commercial, but I'm focusing just on residential property within 1,000 ft of a trail. The average house increases in value 3 to 5%. That increased value multiplied by the
millage rate for the general fund goes back into the county coffers to offset those expenses related to the trail development. Okay. And that happens through time. It doesn't happen on the day we built that trail. It happens through time. Right. Okay.
Okay. Thank you. Uh Councilman Johansson on the uh revenue slide. I think it was to uh when we when we first started this conversation, we talked about uh the importance of of the people here in the
county who don't have this venue, the the ability to ride a motorbike, right? Motorcycle and and that we wanted to do this so our so our our constituents youth can get out. Um,
does does the does the revenue It's starting to look like we're trying to do a a booma like field that is uh for national and and statewide competition and less so for our our um for our
citizens. Is that No, sir. This is the assumptions that associated with 130 practice days local residents and 12 U regional and national competitions. if we were to run it and 14 if the private sector ran it. But the 130 days are static
and it will be open for us the remaining times. The 130 days is four locals. Yep. Four locals. All right. Thanks. Thank you. No other questions. Okay, I think we're good. Thank you, Brad. Thank you, uh, Tim Bailey.
Okay, so you need two things from us. A operations model and management uh model. Um can I ask one more question, Mr. One more question for who? Which one? Um Councilman Santiago. Sorry about that because it relates to
your question, Mr. Brad. Yeah. Um now obviously this has been out for you know at least six months longer obviously over a year I think now. Um and more information has come out in the last six months. Are you getting any interest out there
from the private sector and can you share a little bit what what that buzz is and what their interest is and what model might work within that interest? So I think that um I mean you have two track builders here today so there's interest um and I think the fact that
you have a colleague who's involved in the sport who's out talking uh with individuals at national events and regional events has certainly helps the case. Um, I really think the decision needs to be at this point public or private. You know, we don't have to drill down on the models because our
consultant will come back and say, "Okay, we've ran the numbers. We've got, you know, this is a scenario where they told we've got a million dollars from Advent Health to, you know, be the namesake. We've got this much money from, you know, International Speedway Corporation or AMA. Um, this is how much
that the the public will need uh to add to the pot. Um and this is what the operational structure they will give you the options for a private you know there's multiple as you the five that's listed on the slide um is just
the beginning there are multiple others but these are typically what they see in sports and counties the models and I'm trying to go back there and I'm I have the wrong clicker so kind of from a very publicly operated publicly built um facility to a design,
build, operate, and maintain. They're doing these P3s that kind of more private sector um on courouses in the nation where the the county is paying a fee or lease as you know um to keep the budgets from going up and down.
That's a fixed fee for the Brad. As a followup to that, um if the private option were selected, two questions in that scenario. Would we still have uh um a say so in the quality
of the design? And secondly, would that still allow us to have the 130 I forgot the number, the 130 days of open public use? Yes. Yes. Those are things that are important to this council. So, we would make sure again when I ask what are your goals? What is your what would you like to see
in those? They would the consultant would come back and present. Um and you could make changes at that time if you wish. if it if it didn't have everything that you wanted. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I'll just wait for the I'm guessing we have public comments, too. Mr. Chair, we have I was just going to ask we have
uh six public comments. Would you like to hear them now or after debate? I'll leave it up to you now. Okay. The one thing I will say and I think George mentioned this to to many of you and you'll probably hear this from the track builders is if we if we
go straight land lease where we're expecting them to development to develop it. Um I think to sweeten the pot or to add to the value proposition we should take some of the money that we have remaining that this council has approved at this point in time for the track to do some infrastructure improvements like
we've done at the parcels at the airport. So, it's a kind of a readymade where they would come in and build the tracks, but we would build roads and um you know, some of that um do storm water, some of that crucial infrastructure.
One other quick question. I don't need to hear from them now, but you said there's two track builders here. What where are they from? South Florida. So, one's in Winter Haven, I believe. He has built the the PK County Bone Valley. So Bone Valley is a publicly operated, publicly built
track by the PK County and then uh the other builder has I think three tracks and um south south and north or south central Florida. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Uh we'll go wrong. We'll go to the public comment and then
resume u or begin our our debate. First up is uh Connie Colby. and we'll have Katherine Pante and John Nicholson. Good morning, Connie Colby. Um, Orman
Beach. Um, first of all, um, to my knowledge, this has not come up to the council as far as a vote for whether we're going to have motocross at all yet. I'm not aware of it yet. So, it's kind of like putting the cart before the horse here. Um, I did read most of what
was in the report. I'm kind of confused as to whether this covers ATVs and UTVs because that was in the beginning of the report, too, and they require different kind of tracks, I believe. Um, I'm seeing two full-size competitive
motocross tracks and ATVs and UTVs. Um then they've got parking slips for RVs, additional parking, restrooms, saw classrooms there, concessions and training facilities.
Um these seem to add more money to what is already there. We've spent a lot of money on this already with transferring money from one place to another. um the money from $10 million for
the um for that was for anyway um things that I did not see addressed in here and I really hope that council would consider not doing this at all. Um road access. This is building in
environmental properties here. Significant capital investment for us. Um you need someone specialized in motocross facility management. Um event coordinators. They wanted to see children in a um day, not daycare,
but um they would have children that would be there during the week to motocross about 3 hours a day and then a homeschooling. So, you would need a teacher there, I would assume, and someone to watch those kids when they're not there. Our parents aren't there. Um
you need guards there. You dig wells, internet, lighting. They say you need an on-site medical facility facility. Um, probably need some place to gas up your equipment there, too. You need um what
was the other thing? They they showed me that they needed heavy heavy equipment like bulldozers and excavators to go over the tracks while they're be being used between times. Um, there's high cost of maintenance and lawsuits.
The insurance they say is quite high for this as well. Um office space, spectator spa, um space, um storage facilities for the bikes that are left there when the kids are there for riding their bikes. Um,
and as far as the location, um, most of that 60% of that land is wet land and to me it's not appropriate for motocross. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Katherine Pante,
followed by John Nicholson, followed by Jason Mara. Good morning, council. I'm not opposed to a privately funded motocross track being built on private land not owned by the county. If a motocross facility was a profitable business venture, I'm certain the Speedway or another entity would have built one in our community.
What I am opposed to is a publicly funded motocross track. Our county should not be getting into the business of motocross on any level, including public private partnerships. Motocross is a high liability, high- injury sport that Valuchia County residents should not have to shoulder the liability for. The council has voted to do this against
the wishes of the majority of Valuchia County residents. This has been a fiscally irresponsible use of taxpayer money from the outset. $128,000 for the Huntington study, 10.2 2 million or more to build, staff time, ongoing continual maintenance, and over 4 million in land purchased under the guise of
conservation. In addition, why was the needs assessment omitted from the Huntington study, scope of work? This means we do not have a wellfounded idea of the financial viability of the facility. County staff creates professional-grade promotional material via PowerPoint to sell this to the taxpayers who will be continually on the
hook for one councilman's pet project. It is appalling to see a recommendation of approval from county staff back in April of this year or the staff recommendation of the approval of February 2024 when we reached the second reading on the moratorum in reference to the fuel terminal. It is really disturbing to see pet projects like this
pushed to the forefront when we have many pressing concerns in our county. In addition, I am strongly opposed to opening up this land for off-road vehicle trail riding. Valuchia Forever is clearly passive recreation only. Brad Balba once stated in Valuchia Forever meeting, "The whole goal of conservation
is to keep the land intact in its natural state." I would also like to remind Chairman Brower about a Facebook post he made on April 26, 2022 and March 25th, 2022, which I will submit to public record. I am excited to be the first Valuchia elected public servant to sign the commitment to working towards
preserving the Valuchia Wildlife Corridor. The second one had to do with um preserving the Florida Forever Wildlife Corridor. both this project resides in our Valuchia Forever was purchased with our money and it's also purchased it's upside down
and this resides in the um Florida Wildlife Corridor. So please uh I'll I have time. I'm going to go ahead and read it. The Florida legislature passed unanimously and Governor DeSantis signed the Florida Wildlife Corridor Act in 2021. It provides funding to purchase
this beautiful land to preserve this safe and beautiful corridor. The act would protect Florida's wildlife as the state grows and preserve their natural quarter so future generations can continue to enjoy the land and its wildlife. But we need willing sellers to come forward and preserve natural Florida. Listen to these Florida
ranchers urging other land owners protect this disappearing resource for the health of our state. Go here to see our public wells, wetlands, and water bodies. We are not adequately protecting our wetlands and need to create the standards necessary to do that. Encouraging land owners to sell their land they own in a Florida wildlife
quarter for conservation would be a great way to save both. Let's remember that as we vote on this John Nicholson John Beachside. Uh, a little clarification. There was a picture shown originally about this land. If I'm not
mistaken, part of it was already cleared. Uh, so it's not in its natural state. Secondly, it appeared to have um hard surfaces. Uh third, if uh this were to go on this
property, I do not believe there's a lot of hard surfaces uh involved with a motocross. So, Don, you could clarify that if you would, please. Um third, uh I believe we were going to have two
entities acquire this property, Echo and Valuchia Forever. uh if so half of the property or that w part that is not uh disturbed that's in its natural state could be purchased by Valuchia Forever which would match it. Secondly, Echko
could match the already disturbed property and be used for recreation. Uh there is a company that uh the county does business with and has for over 50 years. It's called Daytona International Speedway. It leases
county property and it's quite successful. Secondly, it gives us a very advantageous uh advantage in terms of uh tourism name recognition bodies and uh hotel rooms
etc etc. Uh one of the reasons I would disagree with Don is that Don wants uh bare bones. I would prefer a Daytona National Speedway type uh location that everybody benefits, not only our local
kids because uh unlike his son, I'm sure he would never ride on private property or out in the woods or whatever, but kids do and they need a place to go. Uh I grew up in an era where uh it was
often said idle hands are a devil's workshop. parents were always finding a place whether it's softball, baseball, football, whatever to keep their kids busy. All right, this absolutely fits into that uh frame of mind. So, I look
at this not as a sense of uh win or loss. All right. The idea that you would have 30 kids denied an event because five seats are empty does not make sense to me. The idea that we lose money on certain events absolutely makes sense.
All of our major, we have uh Dickerson that never ma makes money. We have uh Midtown, we have Ivon Scarlet Golden. They never make budget. All right. So, how is this any different than how we subsidize everybody else? I don't
consider this a pet peeve because his son is involved. His son brings an interest. All right. I'm asking you to look at this very carefully. And absolutely. Okay. It Thank you. Thank you. Jason Mara, followed by Jimmy
C. Herring, followed by Jason Baker. Jason Marorrow first. How's it going? Jason, Moto Bros. Um, so I do operate I have a few different facilities in South Florida and honestly
when we look at some of these parks, okay, I know we're we're talking about, you know, when we're looking at conservation land and things like that, how often have you seen some a kid want to go bird watching? Okay, we're all the development. We are taking away property
for kids to go and do things. Okay, so we got to keep that in mind because I do have three kids. That's why I got it. I semi-retired and then I got into this business honestly because I'm watching things dwindle more and more. And I think it's a shame that we do refer to
Don Dempsey as doing this as a pet project and it's not. You know, he does have a child that does do motocross and he knows the sport and he loves it and he gets to see the parents and the kids that are involved in it and what they
love. Okay. So now I do live surrounded by a preservation land where my home is. And more and more these preservation lands, you can't do anything on them. Okay? I know mine, the one that surrounds me, you can't ride a bicycle
on it. So again, when we're doing all these preservation lands, what are we doing them for? Okay, if we can't use them, then what's the purpose? This land is to keep land land. it's not developing on, but it's creating a facility for kids to go outdoors and do
things. So, when we're looking at the model, I know we keep talking about cost. I do have three parks. I did not do this because I want to spend money. It is a money-making park. It is different from a baseball field. Okay?
You can generate income from these facilities and honestly can generate a very good income. Okay. So, when we're looking at costs from the county going out, we're not looking at a continual cost. If it's done correctly, managed right, it is an income generating
business. Now, my recommendation on how to handle it, I do look at probably the public private partnership is a better bet as opposed to putting it out just for, you
know, private because again, it's going to be a unique individual that's going to want to take a private, put the money and finances into it to develop on a land to then turn it back over to the county at some given point. So I think doing a public private partnership makes
the most sense. It keeps both parties in line in the common goal. Um in addition to that I know we had talked about um how to operate it. Okay. Does county operate it or privately
operated? Okay. I would recommend privately operated as opposed to county operated. Um, there's a lot of nuances and a lot of expertise that you need to know. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jimmy Herring.
Good morning. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. I'd like to say it's there is a lot of misinformation out there. I've never seen in my 60 plus years of land being
destroyed by any facility like this. It's always been. You don't see parking lots, asphalt, concrete. You don't see that. You don't see guys out there destroying the land. And you see more kids that do not have places to ride dirt bikes. They don't have basketball
courts in every town and every community. These land, these people do not realize these subdivisions are destroying animal land. I live in a conservation area. I I love animals and
no offense to anybody here, but I love animals more than humans any day. Absolutely. We are the most destructive thing on the planet. It breaks my heart to see the land development that has gone on here, not to mention other
towns, counties, states worldwide that is gone forever. And we complain, "Oh, there's animals in my garbage. There's animals have no home." Well, what about the subdivision you live in
now? You're living in an animal's home. They're not They're not living in your home. You're living in theirs. And since all this land development has gone on, I'm born and raised here. My grandparent came here from Georgia with a dream to
provide ice to this community. We have Todd's Grocery and Ice House. He did wonders for this place and surrounding counties. My mom ran the Luc County Courthouse for 35 years under Vi
Smith. I spent many of days and weekends. My mom worked nothing but for this town. Did married people here. She did so much here while she was here. 35 years almost every week. and I spent in
that courthouse cuz I didn't have somebody to control me. I didn't have a nanny. That was how I was raised. And I know that courthouse very well. And my mom and she always said she did not have friends. She did. She was very when at
her funeral there was over 400 people there. And I just like to say positive community, strong. I need my glasses. Thank you. I'm getting old. This is very positive for this community by providing recreational activities,
family interaction, local for people to ride, memories to last a lifetime, boost to comedy, economy to local business, brings people together unlike we see today in the United States is separated.
We are no longer united. A dedicated space for outdoor recreation promotes physical activities for these kids that you don't see play anymore. Thank you for your time and paper sl
I got to go pee. I think I do too. Jason Baker followed by Rob Pastnac. Uh thank you councel Jason Baker. Uh my company is Dream Tracks. Uh thank you for letting me be here today. I just want to talk. Um I have uh definitely a
lot of experience in uh handling things like this. I've worked with Pulk County uh parks and wreck for uh many years developing their uh Bone Valley park that they have. I've built uh two tracks for them down there. I have my experience. I've been doing this for 22 years. I've traveled all over the world,
built uh courses on six or seven continents. So, um, I've worked for the likes of X, XG Games, Red Bull, um, all, uh, very heavy-handed in the action sports community. Um, like many of your,
uh, citizens here, action sports, it is, it is high demand these days. Um, it's not just baseball, football, uh, ball sports, uh, action sports is is equal part and equal part of the community. So, I appreciate that you guys would um, you know, bring something like this up
for your community. Uh I want to talk uh briefly. You have the three different options. Obviously the public, the public private, and then the full private. We went through all of those uh with PK County. Um initially they wanted to go the private scenario. Uh the the
problem with that is you start getting into um your sovereign immunity and the protections that you have with that that tends to um diminish as you look towards the private side. So then that makes the the operating cost and so many things uh
much higher and a higher or less success rate I should say for the end operator because of the overrun costs and then uh the stipulations that you guys generally would put on um to have a park to be up to your standards because parks and w uh
do things obviously at the highest um the public side of things you guys doing it motocross as uh many have mentioned before me it's very um specific and if you don't understand the specifics of the sport. Um inherent
danger is uh also an associated factor and uh inherent danger and risk if you don't have the right people uh running and managing and operating and building the features. Um that risk increases uh and then injuries and then that's a negative uh public scenario. So, uh, I
personally think that the public private Sen, excuse me, scenario is the best option. Um, that's what the what Pulk County has has gone with. Um, currently involved with them also on a operational side of things, keeping things up to
speed and, uh, and and the the standards um, to keep things safe and and so on. So, uh, that would be my recommendations. I'm obviously here for any questions that you guys want to ask as I've had a a very um broad and uh and depth of of doing this type of stuff.
So, thank you for hearing me. Thank you for coming in. Rob Pastnac followed by Nate Ingram. Thank you for the time. Rob Pastorneck here. I really came for a couple reasons today. I wanted to voice my opinion against this uh publicly funded
motocross track. Um seems like the decision has already been made. You know, if we've already spending over six figures on a study, it was sold to me in my neighborhood basically had a meeting at the landfill that this is going to be a profitable venture.
And I don't think there's any guarantees of that. You know, didn't we just have some numbers about the beach parking, how much that was going to make, and then now we recently see it's not making what we thought it was going to make. Property taxes will probably have to increase to make up for that shortfall.
So, I don't think we can count any chickens before they're hatched. With regard to that kind of thing, um, you know, we've mentioned a lot of terms, a lot of quotes that I have written here. this outdoor motorized park public private partnership public financed option you know but the end of
the day I I feel that this has been proposed to the county by a particular entity a group seeking profit and what I think it I mean how can it be anything else Jason just
mentioned before me sovereign immunity what it looks like to me is that there's a private corporation or some a profit seeking venture that li that looks to limit its liability by partnering with the government because it comes with sovereign immunity.
I is this what people of asking for? And what I've seen is people asking for a lot of flood mitigation stuff and I haven't seen this kind of effort even put into that, you know, where just now the studies are being done. But the for
this motocross track, we've already got a completed study. Is it going to be correct or not? We don't know. There's so many projections, you know, but at the end of the day, this is the government now talking about you are your representatives of the
government, but you are in essence supposed to be representatives of the people. So, how many people of Valuchia County have asked for this a competition motocross track? We're not talking about access to outdoor trails. That makes sense. Where can people go ride their
bikes, take their kids and dogs for a walk? There's relatively few places that most people have access to close to their homes. What it looks like to me is it's a guaranteed liability for taxpayers. You
know, even if these projections are right, we subsidize all these outdoor activities. But how many people are going to be using this competition motocross track geared at profit? We do need access to the outdoors that will have to be subsidized by the government.
That's the reason for stuff like this. I think it's it's wrong and obviously it's going to incur additional liability for the citizens of Valuchia County. Please do the right thing even though you might have already made your decision by the
looks of it. Thank you. Thank you, Nate Ingram. And then the last speaker will be Chad Ellis. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My name is Nate Ingram, and I'm actually a Valuchia County resident who asked for this kind of thing. I I know the last speaker was
curious to see, well, I'm one of them. And the reason why I spent a better part of my life in the motocross racing industry, uh, as a senior pastor doing a church service at every event I could get to. So, I was on the road 45 to 50 weekends a year at each one of the
events that we could get to throughout the state of Florida, Alabama, and Georgia. The reason we went, first of all, is for those of us that go to church. There's no church service at the tracks on the weekends. So, we're usually there from Friday to Sunday evening racing at these events. So,
we're gone the entire time. So, the opportunity was there and we did the ministry. And one of the the greatest blessings I received as a trackside pastor was to watch the families interacting at the track. Moms, dads, kids, everybody camping together for an entire weekend at a sporting event. And
just the camaraderie and the brotherhood uh that takes place as a track is second to none. You know, I' I've watched people in the same class as my kids. My son would have a a part break on his bike. Somebody from three rows over would find out that his bike was broken. they would rush over a part to put on
the bike for a kid racing in the same class. You know, that's like the other team bringing me a set of cleats at the baseball field or or something along those lines. I mean, just the spirit is incredible. I I compliment you on doing the correct research by bringing in experts in the field. You're not going
to find a better track builder anywhere in the world than Jason Baker. He knows what he's doing. He knows what he's talking about. When he's talking about building a safe track, what he means is it's easy to push dirt into a pile. I mean, I do it on my farm in Samsula all the time. Usually when I'm I'm burying,
you know, a dead cow or something like that, I can push dirt into a pile. But to make that into a track, to make that into a jump is truly an art form. And Jason has perfected that. So, I'm excited to see that you guys have involved him in this process. One of the things that we hear frequently about the racing and
motocross is how dangerous it is and how scary it is when these fast motorcycles are racing by at high speeds. Did you know there's a more dangerous sport that you sponsor? Every year we have a cheerleading event at the Ocean Center. Cheerleading is the
number one cause of industry injury for children under the age of 17 in the United States. Cheerleading. The county also owns football fields. I provided the study. I think it was from Stanford. I emailed it to council years ago. We're now finding out that football is
leading cause of head injury in players. We're seeing the effects of that now where over time the repeated injury to the head is causing that that permanent CTE injury. How many football fields or baseball fields does the county have? I'm sure they have a bunch. I don't play
baseball anymore. I'm too old, too fat, too out of shape. But I still ride a dirt bike on occasion. I still pay taxes to all of these other sports that I don't enjoy and I I'm okay with that because it supports our county. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for coming in.
Chad Ellis. Morning chair. Morning council. Chad Ellis, Delton, Florida. names like Vince Gould, Charlie Piva, Stony Sixma, Dale Ellis, Bill Billy and Beetlegast, Jimmy Herring, Yansancy McDonald, Jeff Wingard, and many other
names you may or may not recognize. And some may be here in the room or peeing respectively. They are all synonymous at some point in the 70s, 80s, and 90s in the early days of motocross and off-road racing in Valuchia County. We've watched for years as areas we used to openly ride get
swallowed up by overdevelopment places my father who's in that list of names and I used to ride for miles without ever touching a piece of asphalt or concrete maybe just a railroad. Many of these areas are now possibly inhabited by folks sitting behind me. Some of those areas used to contain motocross
tracks such as Spring Garden Avenue and as far as I just learned new Speedway at one point. We have also watched in dismay as multiple attempts to open areas of Tiger Bay have time and time again been thwarted. I'm not saying development is bad and of course it's inevit inevitable. But consider the fact
that every area of inh of inhabited Valuchia County has at some point fallen victim to displacement. A motocross or off-road facility if it ever comes to it is easily removed in a matter of weeks if not days as as the majority of the facility is a naturally occurring material dirt and soil. I drive almost
two hours at least a couple times a month to Kroom and with Luchi State Forest to ride with my father who's rapidly approaching 70 and my brother when he's in town. I can't count the amount of times that we've been able to ride along herds of deer and other wildlife while doing something we enjoy together. We tried stick and ball sports
and while we were watching we enjoy watching them except pickle ball, they just weren't for us. We drive around this county and are amazed at the amount of traditional sports facilities built with yards upon yards of concrete and constantly think when are the next generations of the next generations who
enjoy the same sport we do going to be accommodated. I'm a part of a group of enthusiasts, Florida trail riders and Daytona dirt riders and I urge you to lean on us and we'll do whatever we can to make this a reality. Thank you. That uh that's the end of
public comment. Um, thank you all for coming in and speaking. Uh, we'll start with uh our discussion and and debate. And Don Dempsey, it looks like you're up first. Yeah, I would just like to um to thank everybody for coming out in support of
this project. I know um I get accused of this being a pet project of mine, and it is. I I wear that as a badge of honor. Um I've been involved in this sport for over 50 years. I've seen what it's done for me and my family and others. And uh
it I'm 60. I'm old. I'm old. What um basically uh in my past I've uh I've seen a need for hockey here. And so out of my own money, I started a hockey
uh league at the YMCA back in 1990. 2000, I saw a need for places to ride. So, I tried this very project back in 2000 when we had a NIMBI program. Um, after two years of effort, I ran into some obstacles and so it didn't go
through, but I'm trying it again. Um, I saw a need for a comedy club in downtown Dane, opened one, lost money, but I saw a need for the community. Um, did a freestyle show back in 2000 during bike week during the onset of the freestyle motocross event. Had two really big
shows during bike week to benefit the town. Um, I'm doing this not for me or my son. I'm doing this for the community. There's a lot of kids out there that I come in contact with that live in subdivisions that have absolutely nowhere to go. And that's why
I'm doing this is because I want to offer kids a place to get out. I don't want video game vegetables on my watch. I'm also trying to get more little league fields and baseball fields and uh football practice fields because I want to see these kids get outside and do
things. That's why I'm doing this. Um, I don't think anybody questioned Troy's motives when he did dogs on the, you know, Dog Beach. I mean, he didn't do it for himself in Bad Boy Dudley. He did it for the community. Jake's doing stuff for the veterans, not for himself, but for the benefit of the veterans. We all
have our experiences in life. We bring them forward. Danny's a big fisherman. Danny does this a lot of stuff for the fishing community in the environment. I've just been involved in this sport for 50 years. I've seen what it does for children, what it does for families, and it's a good thing, and that's why I want
to do it. And we're fortunate enough to have two of the best industry people here. Jason Mara and Jason Baker are both top-notch people in the industry. Um, California is no longer the mecca of motocross. Now, California, because of their environmental restrictions,
because of their their politics, everything's come to Florida, Central Florida. So, we're now the hub of motocross. It's actually uh growing in this area. The demand is growing in this area, but there's nowhere for children in Valuchia County to go. And so, I'm trying to get a place for these kids to
be able to get out with their parents and go ride. I brought a a video of a local race. And I don't know if you could show it real quick to just kind of give you a feel for what I see and what these other people see when they go to these races. It's not destructive behavior. It's
parents and their children with a common goal. They the kids learn to work on their motorcycle. My 12-year-old could probably do more engine work and maintenance than most men in this room. My son can jet a carburetor. He can tell you the intricacies of a two-stroke engine.
Most people can't do it. Look at this. This this was this class before my son's race in Louisiana. And I was like, you know what? I bet you people might want to see that. Look at all the parents behind these children. What's that? Yeah, go ahead. And this is this is a
motocross track. This is this the start of a race ahead of us in Louisiana. Now, I don't know what's so offensive about that to people. I don't know why this bothers so many people, but every kid has a parent behind them in support
of them. It is such a good family environment, and it's not destructive. There's no impervious surface. It's not like the 180 mile trail system that we're putting in a paved road for environment environmentally sensitive property. This is what I'm looking to
provide for local children. So, I just don't want to There's no motive. There's no underlying developer trying to get rich off of the sweat of the or the immunity of the county. There's no pet project for my son, which is really
troubling that I see that stuff on social media that somehow people think I'm doing this for my son. This has nothing to do with my son. I started this project 25 years ago, but long before my son was even born. This is something we need and that's why I'm so passionate about it because it really is
good for the community. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Johansson. Thank you, Chairman. Um, a few comments as we move forward. We heard from the public, and I'm I'm glad we listened to
the public uh beforehand. Um, I I I would like to comment on some of the public comments uh and invite Mr. Pastnac to spend some time with uh Tim Bailey uh so he can uh show you the
website and over 120 miles of trails we have hopefully one goes close to your house. Um uh you heard earlier about uh the website, the storm water newsletter and uh all the work we're doing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on on
storm water. So So we aren't supplanting money uh from storm water for uh for a project on a motocross. Also uh a lot of folks have said, "I haven't seen a lot of people asking for motocross." Well,
those people are out there and and they're asking and they're on social media and and it's something that as an elected official we see a lot. If I go to a website that that is uh uh Central
Florida fly fisherman uh because I'm a fly fisherman, we're going to talk a lot about Indian River Lagoon and the fly fishing down there. So everything I see on that social media post is pretty pro Indian River Lagoon fly fishing. I don't
see anybody talking against fly fishing there. So when it comes to a fly fishing vote, I'm going to say, well, everybody supports that. Uh cuz that's where I hang my hat. Well, it's the same thing for the people who don't want fly fishing, right? The anti-fly fishing
social media site is all the people that don't want it. So if that's where you hang your hat, that's what you're going to see. Uh so so you have to open the aperture and and see everybody's opinions on what's going on, not just
what you want to see. And and and that's a bias we all wake up with every day. You got to kind of open the aperture and say, "What's the other side looking at?" Um uh people that are opposed to anything that we do here, they'll email
in. people who are who are for something usually meet you in the hallway and say, "It's a great project. I'm looking forward to it. I hope it passes." Uh uh so so we just have to be careful when we're playing the the the fours with the
against. I would say right now uh I have I have more people contacting me um uh that that are for it or neutral. Um uh there's 575,000 people give or take in this in this uh
county. Um uh and and the balance hasn't really shifted in a direction. Um as as for how we move forward, if we move forward, I think we've all said from this bench before that that we don't
want to spend millions of dollars on this project. We want we want some risk sharing. We've also heard from some people that have done these private public partnerships before that they're willing to help assume some of this
risk. So, it just depends on how we move forward. And I I think there is a a uh a solution here. Uh you saw the area or you should have seen the area in the pictures. It's already kind of a messed
up situation that we can turn into something good. You saw the video that that uh Mr. Dempsey just showed. It's got a lot of dirt. I bet you uh that dirt has a lot of deer tracks in it when when uh the morning comes. and um uh to
uh to help allay the concerns of of Miss Colby. I think most of that stuff that concerned you would be born on the risk of the developer should we go on this public private partnership route. So, uh we won't be looking for teachers and
medical facilities and things of that nature and and doctors. those those would be things uh uh born on the uh on the private sector probably. So uh I'm confident that we can come up with a
plan here to move forward should should that be where council wants to go. Thank you. Thank you, Jake. U I'm going to try and be quick with this and fit everything in that I wanted to say and then I'm hoping to hear from Don again. But but I I do
have to respond like Jake did to some of the public. No, there's not been a decision made. I don't know what my decision is yet. I'm struggling with what I wanted and I think we're going to get whether or not we get motocross is I want to see trails out there for recreational riding where the people
that live in Valuchia County can go and ride. It's a family sport. We don't have one foot of trails on public property where you can go legally ride. So everybody has to ride illegally almost unless you find a private property. So
that's what that's what I want. There's not going to be a decision made yet today either. We're going to give information back to the staff and then they'll come back if if the council votes for it for cost and program of a public, private or whatever we decide.
There has not been a decision made yet. Don Dempsey, I agree with you. I am tired of seeing I I I've known you a long time. I knew before you you before you ran for office. I know who you are. I know that this is not a self-serving
project for you. I know that because I know where you live and I've been by it. And I have seen that you've already taken care of your son's needs. You built him a beautiful track to practice on out of your own finances. You take him all over the country to race. you
are for this because you have more knowledge than any of us do on on motocross and you believe that it would be a benefit for the citizens of Valuchia County, for our businesses and for our economy. That's why you're supported and so I just completely
reject as a hand that this is a selfserving um project for you. Uh I'm glad that it was brought up about my support for preservation because I don't back up from that. I voted to, as everyone on this council did, to conserve this
property that we're looking at a motocross track if it comes. And again, I don't even know if I'm for it. I've got real questions. It's not development. It's it's dirt. We're still preserving. This piece of land is not a
pristine, untouched. It's been ruined by a previous owner who illegally dug spread clay, but it makes it perfect for trail riding and for for motocross if that's what happens. Now, I I have some real
questions. I and and Don, I'm not picking on you, but I I respect you and I hope that you will come back after I speak and answer some of these things. This is where I'm struggling. Uh why motocross here? When we had the
discussion, Troyy's not here for dogs on the beach, you voted no on it and said you could have dogs on the beach in Flaggler. Why not just take your dogs up to Flaggler to go to the beach? And I thought about that through this because
I discovered that there is a motocross track in Flaggler County, PAX tracks. So I went and saw it and I thought, well, why doesn't the same thing in apply? I've heard people that have come before that said, "Well, there's no place to ride." There is. We can go a flag.
There's a beautiful track that's owned by a family. Um, why does that not apply there? You voted no on Voride because you didn't want to put taxis and Uber drivers out of business. We will put that familyowned track in Flaggler out
of business if we do this. I don't I don't want to make that vote to put them I believe they're friends of yours. I I hope that if if this is voted to proceed that he would at least get the chance to uh to bid on it. So I'm I'm um I'm
struggling with those things. I went to PAX Track because I was really concerned. I'm hearing a lot from the public about we're not really conserving this land. We're going to destroy it. I I took somebody with me that was against this. Um, so I could watch her reaction.
And as we rode around the tracks, it amazed me how many deer tracks there were everywhere. It amazed me that there was a whole family of sandill cranes raising their young because people have sent me emails that said, "If you have motocross, the animals won't breed anymore." Well, they didn't get the the
memo for that. The the sandill cranes are breeding. There was an alligator there with young the alligators breathing breeding with that many. Um he said at at night when they're done racing all the hills are filled with deer because there's so many woods
around the deer are you can go out in Ocala right now there's legal places to ride trails we have more bears more raccoons more deer than we've ever we're now we're debating do we kill bears do we have an open hunting season they are
breeding this is consistent with conservation and I'll come back later. Uh, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, we're in debate, right? We are.
I hope you can clarify your position a little bit. Clarify me later. I'll ask you that question because I'm I felt a little bit both sides there. Um, to help me your position where I am. Gotcha. Um, Don, I I'm proud to stand by you on this
initiative. I'm not a motocross guy. Never been to a motocross activity, but since you started this initiative, I've talked to many people that have approached me about it, right? I don't even I probably couldn't even start the bike. I have no idea. But I do know this, people use it, right? And what
makes a good community, diversified, uh, activities, um, amenities. That's what when people come to invest in communities, they look at the quality of the communities. and ballparks and soccer fields are not for everyone. Um that's probably I spent most of my time,
but um I realize that the folks that like the activities that you like, they also pay into the taxes that we're utilizing to fund these projects. Your kid doesn't play baseball, but you pay taxes for uh supporting baseball. So we we can't be so narrowminded to think
that because I don't like it, we shouldn't have it. It's a lot more important than that. Our jobs are to serve as many people as we can to improve our community in many ways and I think this adds to the value of our community. Um so um I'm for it. I Mr.
Chairman I like the fact that you pointed out that the property is not in pristine cons condition. It's destroyed. There's really nothing there to preserve. It's ugly. It's disgusting looking parts of it. I should say this will be an enhancement to that area if
you ask me. All right. So people need to understand that that perspective also and the other large portion of the land is being preserved I think as you were trying to identify also. Um so we we we during the duration of this time we've looked at several sites right several sites. We
were looking for the best site. I think this is the best site because every time we proposed a new site a different segment of the community came out and said not here not here not here I don't want it here. if there's any site in Valuchia County, this is probably the
best uh because of the location and what's already the impacts on that land. So, um I I'll just say I'm ready to move forward. I I this is not my like my initiative, but I want to make sure if we vote this forward, I I want to give a
clear direction to staff to fasttrack this. I want to get this done before the end of the year. At least have a an agreement in place and a vote in place for this council to say this is direction we're going to go. This drip drip drip of constantly hearing about it. Excuse me, I'm losing my voice. Some
some might like that, right? Um but this drip drip drip of the same thing over and over again. Let's just do it. Let's rip this band-aid off. Let's get on with it if the council has the majority of the votes and um give a clear fasttrack direction instead of drip drip. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Councilman Troy Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Um, Councilman Dempsey, it's a good thing I don't hold grudges, man. Some things were brought up here and uh it's just a good thing I I don't hold grudges. My My wife would say differently, but
I I wanted I wanted to um just tell you, Mr. Dempsey, I appreciate your passion and your ability to bring this forward. One of my favorite things I heard from you about this was you promised all of
us if this price tag was disgustingly bloated, you would be the first one to say a absolutely not. And you've taken staff to task in my opinion about numbers that you saw you thought were inflated.
I know this isn't question and answer time, but if off top of your head, because you said this is not a pet project for your family and your son, how many weekends a year would you say, cuz I've heard you talk about this activity that you've
done for 50 years and your son's involved in it, but how many weekends a year would you say you all are gone to a track? So, 52 weeks out of the year, how many are you all traveling for this? We just
That's why I got carpal tunnel from driving so much. I drove the entire month of March and May through June. We just got back from Tennessee for a week and a half at the national championship. Don, how many weeks? Weekends. Oh. Oh my gosh. Trips. 40. 30 40.
Really? Oh yeah. So, I I asked that because I wanted you to have an opportunity to share that if this doesn't happen, are you still going to be traveling with your son 40 trips a year and your family? You he said yes. For those of you
listening online, that's not going to change anything for Don Dempsey and his family. You're still doing that. So, I believe you when you say, "I want to do this for the kids that don't have the opportunity to ride in their neighborhood. There's no place legal for
them to do that." And I'm going to hold you to your words about the price tag and that you wouldn't even support something that's outrageous. I I heard Mr. Johansson mentioned earlier, I think it was I think it was Jake that talked about, you
know, not spending a tremendous amount amount of money on this, but I also think it was important my questions earlier um to Mr. Bailey about what do we spend on recreation? And I had learned a long time ago that all recreation is subsidized by government
taxpayers. It just it is. is I mean when you look at a ball field and you look at the clay and you look at the grass and the maintenance and the fertilizer and the light poles that are 100 ft tall and all of that that goes with it. It's all subsidized. Thank you.
Don, you're up again. Thank you. Um yeah, to address uh the chair's questions and they're all fair questions and I I've been up the tax tracks quite a bit. Um and I like CJ and his wife. Uh they're good people, but the problem is from here, if I just
Google mapped it just now, it's 49 minutes to get from here to PAX tracks. Now, your average child in this community goes to brick and mortar school. Your average child in this community, their parents work 9 to5. So,
you get off, mom or dad gets off at 5:00. Mom or dad has to unwind. You got to load the bikes and then you're going to drive an hour, 49 minutes to PAX tracks, unload. You get there at 6:30, it's dark in a half hour. I mean, it
gets dark in the winter time. It gets dark at 5:30. So, you wipe out all the daylight savings time uh from like November through March or whatever that period is. You can't ride. You cannot go up there. It's not lit. It's not a lit facility. So, you can't go there after
school for probably four or five months. It's not just a Monday through uh or it's not just a weekend thing. I mean, there's this is supposed to be open during the week and that's how these places operate. And these kids, I mean, they need a place to go after
school and they don't allow that video that I showed you were 50 C bikes. They do not allow 65 or 50 cc bikes on that track on the main track. You probably just saw the main track. There's a a small p track in the area in the back for little kids which is in my opinion
is not um it's not it's okay but it's it's it could be better and there's there's absolutely nowhere decent for people to ride in this county Monday through Friday. I believe they only allow 65s to ride on the big track for
15 minutes every hour on Sundays there. I think that's still their policy. Again, I don't even we don't ride there. I've ridden there maybe once in the last year. We don't go there. We train at another facility. Um but
it's it it's again it's not we're not doing this to make it a high top turn everybody into a pro type of thing. This is for your average kid after school. Just like if they want to get involved in football, they go to the football field. They want to play basketball, they go to the basketball courts. Unfortunately for them, most of those
are lit. Little league fields are lit. uh PAX tracks is not lit. There is literally nowhere for kids to go after school when 30 years ago you could ride at, you know, the old where Tanganger Outlet is now or you could ride at Biker's Paradise down in Deltona or Duck
Lake. There were all these places to ride. You cannot ride there anymore. They're developed or you're just going to get trespassed and arrested. There's there's absolutely no place for children to go out and take their bikes. And from day one, my initial goal before flooding became my top priority. But my initial
goal when we had our goal setting agenda meeting the first time, you know, for me it was the motocross and it was for parks and recreation. I mean, I'm trying to get kids out. I started that hockey league in in in the early 90s because I
wanted to get kids involved in stuff. I I really think it's important as government leaders that we help these kids get out and do stuff and not just sit on their phones because doing criminal law and I represent a lot of teenagers and kids in juvenile court. A
lot of it's because they have no outlets. We got to give these kids something to do and this offers that. And I appreciate, you know, the the thing with He's not even here. I was actually going to vote yes for the dog beach, but if you remember my float my
float uh Can we mark that down? But no, I was going to vote yes for initially. I was against it because of the property owners who were fronting, but I I was going to change my vote, but I got held up. We had our canceled flight and I couldn't come back and we had that remember we had the issues with the mic and the audio and so I just couldn't
even attend virtually. But um I just try and vote my conscious all the time and this is just something that I really think is is needed in the community. Um this sport has taught me a lot in life. When I was a kid, I love the sport. I was 12 years old. I mean, I
had a full-time job in 10th grade, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. I had a full-time job after school. I worked 40 hours a week after school so I could afford my dirt bike and so I could afford to race on the weekends because that's how passionate I was about this sport. I learned how to work on engines at 12
years old. Most of these guys out here probably learned how to work on engines as kids because if you're poor, you don't have the money to pay people to work on us. You just have to either not ride or you have to learn how to work on engines yourself. And I learned how to do top ends back then. I mean, I I just I did. And so, and there's a lot of kids
out there who maybe have no interest in mechanical how engines work or getting a job to pay for their bikes in a race, but there's so much love. Once this bug bites you, the dirt bike bug, it got you. And it's going to teach a lot of kids, I think, a lot of important values
in life. And that's why I'm so passionate about doing this. Thank you. Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair Don. Thank you for that. And and the passion I one of the things you hit on you know, being a a criminal defense attorney and what some
of the things that you face and wonder if their lives were different before, how it would have changed them in a positive direction. This would be one of those things. So, I wrote something down that I'd rather see Don's initiative to help with that than go to my initiative
with a second chance job fair for inmates. So, I'd rather see this remove that possibility of them, you know, give them more outside activities. I like that. Um, recently I took a tour with Nick and we went out to uh I think it
was a park right near there because I actually wanted to see and I'm glad you took me down there to this facility because I wanted to see exactly because I was hearing the same thing. We're talking about disturbed property. We're talking about clearing lands and laying asphalt and all these things. And none of that comes into play with this this
area. The area that utilized the echo dollars for the purchase of that land for the outside activity is already disturbed land and the conservation dollars is going to stay weight what conservation. So that
that is staying the same. So the I'm glad that we're here today to discuss what is not true and what is true. um the trail system that runs near there. I would like to see a connectivity with that trail system that we currently have. We talked about that
connecting the one that we went to, we drove by off of 415 and the one off of 44. There is no current connectivity between those, but you know, we discussed that uh and I too chair would like to see some of that utilized through that conservation area. Um, I'm
not in favor of putting down the asphalt type of trail system, you know, impervious. I would like to see it with its natural uh trail system like we and I'm trying to think of the name of the park that we went to. Uh, Longleaf Pine. Uh, so and what an impressive area and
the ideas that we have to improve that area and it's not far from where I live. So, you know, we have a extensive trail system throughout Valuchia County. And I think of the conservation land that we have in Valuchia County already,
I think it exceeds what the size of Semino County is, what Valia County currently has in conservation. That's impressive. And we still want to do more. We want to increase it. And those opportunities will come up. Valuchia forever is not going anywhere.
Neither is Florida forever. So those those opportunities will rise. So I appreciate the the fact that you showed us that. Um so I would like to see where this goes. I I really do and and I can say that if
you haven't had the opportunity to go visit that site, uh the rest of my colleagues, I would implore you to do so. So it is well suited for this type of activity. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Uh, David, I'm going to try
and clarify my position for it because it is cloudy right now. I'm trying to I'm listening and I'm I'm trying to to learn. Um, Don, I will say this to you. You just you told Troy, you spent most of your weekends out with your son. I I
think that's marvelous. It um your wife also is probably gone all those weekends, too, with your daughter on horseback riding. Don't tell her I told you this, but I was concerned with liability. And it turns out that horseback riding, according to Horses
Only magazine, a pro horse magazine says it's 3.5 times more dangerous than dirt bike riding. And yet nobody's ever says a word about horseback. I'm for it. I want We're going to have horseback riding here, I think. Aren't we? Yes.
And access to the to the back right past my dirt bike trails in the in the back. Um but here's where I am, David, and and Don. what what you didn't answer and what this is really heavy on on my heart because I met that family. I met the
husband and wife at PAX Track and he said we'll we'll go out of business. I'll be okay. I'll do something else. You wouldn't vote for Voride because you didn't want to put an Uber driver out of business. I don't understand why it's
okay to put this family out of business. They don't have lighting. I guess are we going to have lighting here? and who's going to pay for that. Where I am, David, is that I don't feel like this is a core government responsibility for us to build it and manage it. If the
council wants to look at a a private or a public private, I'll look at the the numbers. They'll bring us back numbers. Um private management, um private uh maintenance of the track. I don't want to increase a whole another department
or increase your department, Tim, for nine employees to have to go out there and maintain a track that don't know what they're doing yet. Um, so for me that would be the only option. Kind of a hybrid, but a public private where um
and I would like for if we're going to put it out on the street for bids, I hope that PAX tracks would get to build uh to bid because I think that he and a local Dand resident that, you know, that's also really into this sport are
really interested in in maybe uh bidding it. I would love to see that stay local and see our own local business people, one of them here in Dand, the other one in in Flaggler, uh, be able to prosper. But I'm I I'm not there yet until I see
the numbers. Um, we do, the public's right, we have a lot more important things to spend money on. But this isn't coming from general fund. It's coming from Echo. That's money set aside for a lot of things, but one of them is for
outdoor recreation. And I think this is a reasonable place for this kind of act outdoor um recreation. Um I just don't want the county the county has no business going into business. Part of I think what you like about this is that
you see the ability for us to improve the local economy and I agree with that. if it's done with private companies, not with uh county employees. Um I I I just I don't want to grow the uh the
business. Um or grow the uh size of our government. Um we need to we need to reduce it. So I'm going to just stop there. I I hope that you'll take another minute bite at the apple and and talk about um
putting those Sure. If uh who's next? David Santiaga. Do you mind if he makes a quick response? Quick one. Quick one. Well, again, the uh you can't get to Pax. This is 49 minutes from here. Now you get down towards
Orange City and Deltona, add on another 20 minutes each way. Now you're talking about it's it's infeasible. I It's I can't even imagine that people during the week, Monday through Friday, are even going to packs. I I don't even think we're talking about the same
population here because it's feasibly it's just impractical to go up the packs after work Monday through Friday. Do you agree that it'll put them out of business? No, absolutely not. Okay. I I I don't see it because it's like a golf course.
So, you're going to vote for Troy's dogs on the beach because it's you no longer think it's okay to drive 49 minutes to take your dog to Flaggler. Now, you voted for VRod. I did. Yeah. So, and we didn't put any cabs out of business. It's a completely different clientele. So, anyway,
but and then yeah, so I don't I just don't see it. I I don't see how there's nobody in my opinion. There's nobody from Orange City, Deltona, Pon Inlet, Port Orange. There's nobody coming up and driving that far Monday through Friday after work. You can't do
it. It gets dark. You can't. So, I'm looking for a local place that people can go. And this is not money driven. This is like doing a park. This is just giving kids a place to go. This is not supposed to be a money maker. I'm not trying to create a uh a Daytona Speedway which is on county
property and uh you know that's that's a dangerous endeavor as well. So that's why I just I I I don't see any problem with this. I don't want to spend any more money than pickle ball. Thanks. Okay, Councilman Santiago. Oh my goodness. That's two attacks on my
pickle ball lately. You had me when you said pickle ball. I was like, "Wait, wait, wait. I don't know if I trust this guy." I'm kidding. Um, Mr. Chairman, I I move that we direct staff to go to the next step and pursue a public private partnership option with the consultant
to bring back to this council before the first meeting in December. Second. Or tell me the date again. Um, before first meeting in December. Yes. I don't know what date that is. It'll be in November.
Is it? We're not meeting December. Yes. Well, you said before the first meeting in December. Correct. Let me Thank you, Mr. Chair. I say I'll just say on or before the first meeting in December. Okay. So that we can decide on the next step at that point for so bring back information on public
private um building and management everything public private my my understanding and I talking. Let me just say my understanding is that we would bring back the consultants review regarding on how a public private
partnership can be formed for us. Is that correct, Brad? Correct, Brad. Is that what you need? We will work post haste with the consultant and they will be here in December to give you a status update with numbers. I I without knowing their work schedule,
I mean, we will work as extremely as fast as we can to get you the numbers. They've been briefed on the project. Their contract, I believe, is coming Yeah. to council at the next meeting or the um I saw it was being finalized last week.
Okay. But that that that work now with this direction would bring before us what a public private partnership would look like and what it could potentially cost us, sir. So that we give direction to execute on that or not. Correct. Okay. That's my motion. And then the public knows.
Sure. U Okay. So, we have uh that motion on the table by uh David Santiago. The second was by Don Dempsey. Uh Gaddy Robbins, did you before I call for a vote, you want to speak?
Yes, sir. I I haven't spoken yet. Uh good. Yep. No. Uh council, just to let y'all know where I'm at, sitting back, listening to everything, and everybody seemed to be kind of on point with why we started this to begin with. you know,
we want to um add to our diversification of outdoor activities. There's nothing really else like this. We've tried and exhausted other avenues, whether it be Tiger Bay and and some other and some other things out there, which didn't work. Uh we've tried it at a landfill,
which is an industrial kind of uh site. That wasn't uh good enough. We found some disturbed land uh that we had an opportunity to um uh acquire and it it kills a couple birds with one stone.
Even if this thing doesn't go through, but even if this thing goes through uh or is approved where it's still um in protection or in conservation because there is still some value there. But, uh, you know, at the end of the day, uh,
our our investment is is that taxpayer dollars in that property, right? And and and just so you guys know where my head is at, whatever we do to that property, I'm looking at worst case scenario because of our initial investment, you know, if we have to do electric, if we
have to do uh storm water, sewer, all that too, that same stuff can be applied in the future if this thing goes south in 5 10 20 years if it's approved for outdoor recreation. If we want people camping around the lake there, if we want people doing some some other
outdoor activities on the property, it's not going to be money wasted, it's going to be money invested. So, um either way, if we take that minimalist, uh kind of approach done, I think we can get that uh that number down. I don't know if if I would before that got quite a sticker
shock when I saw, you know, saw some of the 10 or so million dollars. I I I think that I don't I don't think that's accurate. So, uh, but at the end of the day, I think there's a good opportunity here to, uh, where we're accomplishing a lot of things that the that the public, uh,
wants. Um, so, you know, uh, I think if we proceed forward with with caution, you know, and and make the right moves, we can make something good out of this in a lot of different areas. So, um, you'll have my support if we can do that. So, appreciate it.
Okay. Thank you. So just to make it clear to the to the public and for each of us for what we're voting on the motion of the table is not to approve motocross. is to take it to the next step to uh have staff and their consultants bring us back what a public
private uh motocross facility would look like hopefully with costs because we we can't vote on it without knowing what it would how much echo money we're spending before the first meeting in December. Clear enough? On or before? On or before
before first. Okay. honor before the first meeting in December. Don, you're still good with that as a second. Okay. Uh Chrissa, would you call the role? Mr. Johansson? Yes.
Mr. Kent? Yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Dempsey? Yes. Mr. Brower? Yes. All right. So, that will come back to us. Um, thank you for everybody that participated.
Um, so now I think before lunch we can fit in item 17. Mike, if you're follow if you're ready. Um, item 17 is a discussion on direction of
seeking the amendment of Senate Bill 180. Yes, we brought back a short presentation that Paula's going to walk you through. Uh, John Booker was going to give the presentation, but he lost his voice. I'll talk fast. Yeah. that uh uh Pauloria, senior
assistant county attorney. This is uh now item 17 now item 3A regarding uh bringing back um direction on SB 180 uh which was chairman. I hate to interrupt. Can't hear. No, I can hear. I um I just looked over.
I know you got a a list of cards. I'm just I'm just wondering if we should take our lunch break now. Lunch has been delivered. I hate for it to sit and get cold. Um, I know there's a presentation here. We've moved this up, so we're definitely going to get to it. I just
I'm I was hoping you could you could you could get the temperature of the council and see what we think. I was too we've got four people. Um, so less than 15 minutes for them. You're five minutes
if that. So, what you would like to do is just uh I I don't want to do this without hearing from the public, though. We have to hear from the public. I certainly want to hear. Okay. If the council's okay with it, um chairman, I'm I'm fine with us, you
know, waiting 25, 30 minutes for lunch. I just hate for it to be okay. Mr. Chair, just add to that. I mean, the public comment is is fine. It's whether or not we bel labor this or not. it's going to be on us. Um,
so I'm okay with proceeding. Yeah. Well, uh, go as fast as possible. Uh, so I'm presuming you've all read SP80. There's two sections that, uh, staff is concerned about. Section 18 refers, uh, applies to future hurricanes. So, you know, if we are
subject to hurricanes this year or any time in the future, um, basically if it makes landfall, um, if we're and within 100 miles and listed in a federal disaster declaration, basically the same kind of like super preeemption applies. Um, so this is from like SP250 last
year. So, this is what it looks like when a hurricane makes landfall and 100 miles from landfall on the left. And that's what it looks like if you continue that track um, 100 miles. So this is uh Ian and Nicole from 2023. So you know even with that future um
preeemption portion like any single hurricane can you know apply a preeemption to the majority of the state if not all the state depending upon how that track works. Um the main one that we're concerned about is section 28 and that is a retroactive preeemption. So, you know, this is the the the kind of
pertinent language that basically makes um uh null and void abonio our storm water regulations and basically anything that is more burdensome or restrictive. Um a lot of the statements that we're hearing um you know and and the
conversation was about this applying to property damaged by hurricanes and you know removing the red tape for the rebuilding efforts. And we recognize that we try ourselves as a county to kind of remove red tape for uh rebuilding and reconstruction efforts
from from hurricanes. So um the way section 28 works is it depends upon you know these federal declaration areas and when you layer all three hurricanes together that's the entire state basically. So the entire state is under this kind of like super preeemption for
more burdensome and uh uh uh restrictive regulations. Um there was some discussion about potential, you know, challenging challenges to SB80. Uh you know, Mike identified, hey, we've we saw some issues and going that down that
route. One is standing. There's this uh public official standing do doctrine that kind of um says you can only challenge the constitutionality of um a statute if you meet certain exceptions. The other one is kind of home rule. Um home rule is basically the ability for
us to act without getting an affirmative state uh state um affirmation or express authority to do so. Um so we have our home rule power but the home power is explicitly limited by you know state law. So we have we can do anything up to
the extent where a state law says you know you need to stop. Um so last uh meeting we got direction from council to bring back an agenda item to discuss seeking seeking an amendment to SB80. So we've got some proposed languages
language. Um this is the section 18 change. This is um for the future hurricanes. So um uh our additions are in blue and uh deletions are in red with the strike all. So, we're proposing to change it to, you know, enforce rather
than propose or adopt um and to keep that kind of um uh intention forward. You know, our proposed our proposal is that it applies to properties damaged by those hurricanes. Um which is, you know, we think is the intent of the
legislature when they um approve this. Uh same thing with the uh section 28 uh retroactive changes, change it to enforce. So you can adopt, you know, any one of these. You just can't enforce it on properties that are damaged by
hurricanes, which is kind of the intent. You know, remove red tape, allow people to reconstruct, don't put more kind of burdensome regulations on people who have properties that are damaged by the hurricane. So those are proposed changes. um you know take any direction
on whether or not to proceed get with our lobbyist um with John Booker and get with our legislative delegation. Thank you Paulo. Yes. Uh so if council did want to go in this direction uh we've kind of outlined what possibly we
could change seek to change in a bill that seems to be consistent with what I've heard some other uh uh jurisdictions are considering at the moment. um and you have a lobbyist under contract. So, the idea would be to get them get that firm this information to
advise on how to proceed. Do you have a question? No. Um after the public, I just want to be queued up. Okay. Any questions for staff before I call in the public? Uh, Councilman Johansson,
I I think I have my own answer, but I want to make sure. So, this would apply to any hurricane, right? So, so if something came up next year from something that happened
three years ago, that's Yes. Yes. So, this language of section 18 applies to any hurricane. Got it. Um, section 28 applies to the three hurricanes in 2024. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And uh Mike Paulo, I'll just
tell you I appreciate uh how quickly uh y'all worked on this. When I read the changes that are proposed, it's so simple and clear and accomplishes I believe what the legislature what I've heard them say in public what their
intention was to help people whose homes were either destroyed or badly damaged. doesn't prevent that, but it doesn't take away uh local control of two of the most important things that we uh deal with
here. That's zoning and and land use. So, uh well done. Um please uh four people from the public. Um Stephanie Cox, you're first. You have three minutes. After Stephanie is Gary
Singleton, then Katherine Pante and U. Brian White. Good afternoon. Thank you again. I know we're all hungry. I spoke last night, oh, I should say Stephanie Cox, Deltona. Um, I spoke last night at the city
meeting in Deltona about this SB 180. I like the changes and the amend amendments and I hope you all agree with those and vote in that direction. Thank you. Thank you, Gary Singleton.
Pardon me. Yeah, she didn't take three minutes and you don't get the balance of her time. My name is Gary Singleton, District Three. This is about I just wanted to say there
were some uh comments made um that the state setting aside home rule is an urgent issue. Forbidding our representatives from taking actions that would prevent future flooding is a very urgent issue. Mobilizing our lobbyists is urgently
needed and should be done as soon as possible as possible as fast as it can be done. I've also read where there are municipalities there are um actions in being taken to file lawsuit.
Um, my information is that it would they would be asking from the county a contribution of $10,000 and an additional $5,000 if it went to the Supreme Court. I think this is a drop in the bucket considered how much
considering how much is being spent on studies and various other things in in the half a million to millions. So, this this is very important to preserve our home rule. Thank you.
Thank you, Katherine Pante. Good morning, council members. I'm here today to respectfully request that this council direct staff to partner with Orange County and the city of Deltona to file a court challenge against the state of Florida regarding a recently signed legislation, Senate Bill SP80. This legislation is a direct attack on local
home rule authority and significantly hinders our ability to make essential land use decisions and to protect public safety, public health, and public welfare. From the outset, I have questioned the constitutionality of this bill. And I strongly urge this council to do the same. Let's not forget Valuchia County adopted its home rule charter following a voter-approved
referendum on June 30th, 1970, which took effect on January 1st, 1971. This pivotal move gave Valuchia County greater control over its own affairs, freeing us from direct control of the state legislature. At the state level, home rule authority was enshrined in the 1968 Florida Constitution and further
reinforced by the Home Rule Powers Act of 1973, which effectively ended legal challenges to municipal and county powers. Specifically, article 8, section 2B of the Florida Constitution grants these powers. Valuchia County was a trailblazer. We were the first county in the state of Florida to adopt home rule
powers under the 1968 constitution. That moment in history marked a bold act of leadership by our county government. Leadership that must be honored and upheld today. And yet the county's current strategy appears to be to ask nicely for an amendment during the next legislative session. Frankly, this
approach is weak and conveniently delays progress on a rural boundary charter amendment in time for the 2026 ballot. Let's call SB80 what it truly is, a calculated move by the legislature, aided by our local delegation to strip away local authority and eliminate home rule. It was designed not to be amended,
but to serve powerful development interests that now dominate the legislative process. I urge this council to join a coalition of local governments and fight to repeal this bill. Spending $10,000 to defend our constitutional powers is a small investment, especially compared to the 128,000 recently spent
on a Huntington motocross study. Now is the time for bold action. Now is the time to reclaim our home rule authority and protect the public, just as each of you were elected to do. Thank you. Thank you, Brian White. Good afternoon, Brian White, New Smyrna
Beach. I'm here today as a resident, uh, one of many thousands of residents in our county who lived through hurricanes Ian and Milton and many other named storms. And now we're facing a different kind of disaster. SP80 is a direct attack on local
control. It strips Felia County of its ability to protect people and property in the aftermath of a storm. This law doesn't help residents rebuild. It helps developers move ahead without checks and balances or accountability. It bans
moratoria, blocks comprehensive plan updates, and voids any local rules passed after August 1st, 2024, even those adopted in good faith to prevent future flooding or environmental destruction. Let's be clear. SB80 was written for one
purpose, to let developers exploit chaos. It doesn't matter if roads are still flooded or if our infrastructure is overwhelmed. The law forces us to say yes to new construction, whether we want it or not. And the most dangerous part
is that it sets a precedent. If the state can suspend local land use laws after a storm, what's next? Another emergency? Another giveaway. It's a slippery slope to permanent state control over local zoning. I understand
the legal limitations, but you're not powerless. I'm asking this council to take a stand. Pass a resolution opposing SB80. Join with other counties and jurisdictions to demand its repeal or at least its amendment. Defend our home
rule, even if it's not just on paper, because silence will be seen as surrender. You're elected to represent the citizens of Lucia County, not to bow. Tallahassee lobbyists. Please fight for us. Thank you. Thank you.
Uh and that's the end of public comment on this uh item 17. David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh and and my colleagues, I've read the uh the proposed amendments that have been written up by staff. I think they're very reasonable. sends the message and
accomplishes, you know, maybe not everything that everybody wants, but I think it's a reasonable request to send to the legislature. Uh, with that said, Mr. Chairman, I move that we direct staff to prepare this in a manner to uh, instruct our lobbyists and our team to work towards amending Senate Bill 180
with the proposed language that we have before us. Thank you. Uh, second was by um, Danny Robbins. Motion is for staff to uh prepare this so you don't have to bring it back. If
we vote for this, you're out of the shoots and you have time to to get ready on it. John Booker, it's all on your shoulders if we vote for this. Um a a wellqualified I mean um
individual. So, uh, any Councilman Johansson, very quickly, I I do have a question for Paulo or Mike. Um, what what legal options do we have there? There was a lot of things quoted by the
public. Um Um, can we can we go over those? I want to make sure that I don't want to Yeah. So you know the legal options are you can pass any regulation that is not
more burdensome or restrictive. You have done that. Um low impact development is a good example that we're actually seeing a lot of use um because it was an option. It was you know an incentive based program um that is not um affected by SP 180. It
is not more burdensome. It's not more restrictive. It's an alternate way of, you know, of developing something that, you know, you someone has an option to do so. So, there are are, you know, kind of ways to kind of incentivize some
regulations. Um, the only the restriction is you can't go more uh restrictive. Um, for as for the challenges, um, uh, Mike touched upon that kind of um, last time. One, standing is always an issue. um you know basically there's case law
saying hey even if you disagree with a statute um it is your constitutional and statutory duty um to enforce it um just because you don't like a statute doesn't mean that you have the ability to sue um um that's the public official standing
doctrine and they've carved out exceptions you know if you are required to expend county funds or if you or yourself are personally would be personally liable you know that's kind of the the ability. There's a discussion on home rule and what home rule is. Um
you know going back pre968 um no local government had home rule. Everyone operated under what was called Dylan's rule. And Dylan's rule is you know I need in order to to to enact an ordinance I need to find something in
the statute or in the constitution that says I can do this. Right? So it was a it's a very limited ability for local government to act in 1968. Home rule means that I don't need to look for that express grant of power. Um the charter
itself grants me power and it is limited by the state saying otherwise. So what I look for um is instead I look for a preeemption. I look for as the state says say don't do this. um and that is the limitation of home rule. So in this
case, you know, home rule is basically the ability for us to to draft land development regulations. Um and that home rule authority is limited by the state coming in and saying um okay, your power is limited by this condition. And
this is just kind of an extreme example. the state has like 200 plus preemptions on our ability to, you know, to enact ordinances. Um, so that's kind of where we we, you know, the limits and ability
of home rule. And I'm quoting here from the Florida Constitution for charter counties. We have all the power of local self-government, not inconsistent with general law. So that's that's kind of the limiting power. General law being state law. Yes.
Yeah. So, we talked a little bit about this last time, Mr. Johansson. Um, it was the smoothest council meeting we've had. And I I can now show up more often. I was happy where I was.
I'm I'm joking. Uh, but there's been a lot of discussion with the local government attorneys about Senate Bill 180. Um, and right now you just really I think three paths, you
know, just sit this one out and see what happens. Uh, you you see some that I think Mandy County was the latest I heard this week voted to engage in a lawsuit. Um, and you have others that are talking about trying to seek
amendment to the bill. You could seek a challenge to the bill. uh none of us have a crystal ball can predict uh what the outcome of that would be. Paulo has walked through uh I think some obstacles or challenges you would have to bring the suit and I
get it. Uh I said this last time I people say well I want to defend home rule. I want to defend local government decision-m I understand it. I believe in that. you know, I mean that we're all here because you're trying to do things for the the
the citizens you represent. Um, but we are a subordinate legislative body under the constitution. The legislature created us, even created our boundaries in state law. As Paulo said, I think he has a list that uh he maintains for us
of like 200 some odd preeemptions the legislaturator's already preempted us on. And what does that mean? That just means the legislators decided how we're going to do something rather than us decide it. Um I do want to say though that you know the 1968 constitutional
amendment uh that created home rule is a big deal. I mean there are things that we have because of home rule that we would not have as a non-charter county. beast driving being one of them because state law allows it, grandfathers us in as a
charter county that allowed beast driving as of a certain date. Um, we have the authority to regulate in areas the legislature has not touched. Now, certainly you've seen more regulations come from the state uh dealing with
local government decision-m, but we still have that. And lastly, the third is it the that home rule provides county preeemption to charter counties over cities which we have with environmental minimum u environmental standards that
we have as provided in your charter. Uh our charter when it was adopt when it was amended added that preemption for city power on those environmental issues. Um, so we're happy to talk about any
direction you want to pursue. Um, um, thank you. Uh, I just want to be clear on that since since the the the public made it sound like we had a little more wiggle room that I think we have. Um, the other thing that uh that I've always
said is uh the the knee-jerk reaction that kicks somebody in the shins. In other words, uh uh legally challenge them is is counter to the way I do business. I would rather um uh I would have rather worked through this
collaboratively in the first place before it got there, but uh uh when we saw the the quickness of the tack on SB80 on the back of that, which was I think uh 11 SB 1130 pieces thrown in
there. um uh we couldn't react quick enough, but I still think the best way to move forward is is to work collaboratively to try to get these changes in there um uh without stirring the pot. We've seen a couple counties
stir the pot and and they're not they're not in a in a good place right now compared to us. And I I want to I want to protect what we have from being uh uh preempted in the future as well. So, um
um I'm I'm I'm supportive of the way we're moving forward based on the information you just provided. Thank you. Uh thank you. Uh yes, to Paulo and to uh to Mike Dyer, thank you for that information. The the truth is we are a
subordinate government. The states created us kind of like the states created the uh the federal government. They they tend to forget that, but it's still true that they're subordinate to the states. Um, I think this is the best way to
handle this. Is it weak? It in my opinion, no. Uh, not at all. It It's the way governments are supposed to work together. Most of this bill is really good and really necessary. It covers um
how we handle um our county and the state after disasters. This what needed to be amended was very late. I think the night before the bill uh was finally voted on, very late amendments that made
it so overly broad for things that did take away our local control. And I'm I think what I'm hearing from this council is that they're ready to draw a line in the sand and say, "Quit taking away I mean, we're going to be relegated to the fact where we can go to ribbon cutings
and that that'll be the effectiveness of of a county council if the state continues." So, um, this also works handinhand with those that are choosing to, uh, to sue. I think it makes us a pretty reasonable option to make these
simple changes and make the bill say, um, what the legislature is telling us their intention was. So, I appreciate the work and um I hope that I'm just asking for a unanimous vote here and and
let's um let's work with our state government and try to make these changes. Uh Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. I'll make it quick. Paulo, I just had a couple quick questions. Uh just thinking ahead here.
um SB80 does does this nullify any of our our current uh regulations? It nullified our storm water um uh regulations where nothing in terms of of building uh environmental impacts uh stay everything
stays the same. You just can't make it more burdensome or restrictive. So you basically you just apply the rules as they exist did in August 1st 2024. You can make it less restrictive. you can and we've done that, right? We have um
for sheds um and uh and heavy vehicles, heavy trucks, right? We've made those less restrictive. Not touched by SP 180. You can do that. Okay. I just wanted to be clear on that on on the record, too, because a lot of our laws and ordinances that we have on
the books here are are higher than than state and federal laws. So, uh, and that shows too, like in our wetland study that we just did, uh, our growth study that we did prior to that and and several other things. So, we're still at a high a high standard. We're still sitting pretty well in terms of
standards and protection for for for our people. So, appreciate it. Um, hopefully this works out. Okay. Thank you. I don't see anybody else that wants to uh discuss this. So, we have a motion on the table for staff to run with the changes that we made and
and to work with uh John Booker, our lobbyist, um council, the public, anybody who uh wants to help. Um so, all in favor of the uh the motion, please say I. I.
Any opposed? Thank you very much, council. The motion passes uh unanimously, 7 to zero. And we will take a uh how many? We'll take a uh
yeah, let's take a 45 minute break. We'll be back at 1:00. Test your mic out real quick. Testing. Testing. Podium. Why is your name up here? Oh, I want to speak next on item four.
Yeah, Danny. We are on item four uh which is the appointment to the uh charter review commission and um Russ Brown, are you going to talk to us about this? Yes, sir. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of council. Russ Brown, deputy
county attorney. Before you is the agenda agenda item to select the 15 members for the charter review committee as previously decided by council in your June meeting. You decided that uh each of you would get your nomination uh and then followed by a second and then an
immediate vote for each individual that's nominated that gets a second. Each of you has two selections. They do not have to be in your district. And then the 15th can be nominated by anybody on council with the majority council voting it in. Uh the agenda item
has some dates in there for the charter review committee. The most important kind of immediate date coming up is the first meeting will be the organizational meeting on September 3rd, Wednesday at 5:30 p.m. at the Daytona Beach International Airport on the conference room up there on the second floor. And
with that, I'll turn it over to you. Also with me is John Booker and Gif Chumley. We can answer any questions as well. I'm sure county attorney and the county manager as well if you have I I thought we decided the 15th vote would go to the chair. What's council decision? You must have read that on Facebook.
Instagram. In Okay. Did he just say you were going to say something, too? Okay. We're all here to answer any questions you have and then there's 41 applicants. You have the agendas in front of you with Yes.
members and I'll turn over you, sir. All right. Uh David Santiago, you had a question for staff or um Yeah, I guess for staff and for all of us. just procedurally I wanted to make sure we we we go go we go in knowing the ground rules kind of sort of how we're going to go into this and I
don't think we had spelt that out but I wanted to throw a recommendation if I may miss Mr. Chair unless there's other u parameters but since we each have one um well sorry yes two um that maybe we can use our order of that we're voting
this this week and then and then do the reverse for the second one do one right is that what you're thinking Mr. here. Yeah. And then the second time we just do maybe reverse order like a snake draft. Yeah. A snake draft. Hey, I never heard that saying. Commonly used in fantasy football.
Is that a motocross term? Yeah. Motoc. That works. That's what I I figured that would be the fairest way. the rotation for today which just so for everybody's knowledge it will be Johansson Kent Reinhardt Robin Santiago Dempsey and
Brower and then Brower again in reverse Dempsey Sant Okay and the other thing Mr. chair, I just want to throw off for the council that I think uh whoever we nominate each of us, if we could just give a quick synopsis as to
um why we're nominating that person and what that background is because we have was it 40 of them here and I can't remember everybody's things. So, but if we can just do that because this is a very important committee that we put together every 10 years and um I think every particular person that gets
nominated should have a fairly decent uh conversation, a brief but still be vetted in a certain way before we vote on it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Nobody has any objections to any of that. Michael Dyer, your name is still
up. for you. It is no longer. I apologize. Okay. Which you've done now publicly. All right. Then we will start with uh Councilman Johansson. You want to make your first nomination?
Yes. I'd like to nominate Kelly Quiet. um east side uh district 4 represented uh uh by the healthc care organizations and a uh a lawyer general counsel. Second,
tell me the last name again. Quiet K W I A T E C below Doug Gibson and above Dwight Lewis in the list. And Jake, did you say she's got a legal background? Is that what it is? He is a lawyer. She's a lawyer. Okay.
Oh, okay. Oh, that's right. I didn't recognize the name. And the second was by Troy Kent. And we are to vote on each one of these separately. So, uh,
I'll call for the vote on Kelly. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And she is she is approved and assigned to the Charter Review Commission. 7 to zero. Um, Troy Kent.
Yes. Thank you, Chairman. My first nomination is Christopher Taland. Chris lives in Orman Beach, born and raised there. He is an executive with Foundation Risk Partners, and I think that he would bring um a great set of
eyes and skill set to this position. Second. Okay. Second by Matt Reinhardt. Uh, all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Quick question on that because I'm just making notes here. Uh Troy, if I may, Mr. Chair. So, insurance business
background, right? Yes. Yes. And then the first one was a legal background. Healthare. Healthcare. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh Matt Reinhardt. I'd like to nominate Mark Watts.
He's a attorney, land use attorney, has experience at the charter review uh the last time around. Uh did a successful job, but we're all familiar with Mark. Is he actually here? Does he live in Valuchia? Uh last time I checked, I know he's in behind being in between homes still, but
they're both in Valuchia. Is there a second? Second. Second by David Santiago. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And Mark Watts is nominated. And that
takes us to Danny Robbins. Uh Ben Johnson, retired sheriff, uh 30 35 years, also a member of this council, very familiar with the charter and uh all county operations. Second. And the second comes from Vice Chair
Reinhardt. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? and Ben is nominated 7 to zero. And that takes us to David Santiago. I want to nominate Patricia Northy, new
resident to Valia County. Second. Second by Danny Robbins. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? and Pat Nory is appointed to the charter review committee 7 to zero. And that
takes us to Don Dempsey. Dwight Lewis. Dwight is uh District 1. He was a councilman uh and uh I think he was he's got, you know, all kinds of experience over here on the west side and I've known him forever. So, he's I think he's
a good fit. Is there a second? Second. Second by David Santiago. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Mr. Chairman, if I may for a quick question. Um, I don't know if anybody I just
answered my question. I apologize. I looked at the list. Thank you. Okay. Uh, next one is mine and I will nominate Jennifer Bright. She's District 4 East Side. Jennifer is a financial analyst
and a corporate uh office manager and strategic manager and a very knowledgeable woman. I'll second Jennifer Bright second uh by David
Santiago. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. and we'll go backwards. So, I'll take the uh uh the next one. Um and I will nominate uh where's mine? I'll
nominate Jason Vultz, V O E L Z, who is a Deltona resident, former uh uh uh Army, I think he was army in and uh
law enforcement in Texas and but a long-term resident of uh Deltona. Can I get a second on Jason Vultz? Really? I'll second. Second by discussion.
Yes. I I oppose Jason's nomination um for for a few reasons, but also he's a candidate right now on a on a ballot. He's been very active and vocal in the community. Um and and not that I oppose his
positions, but um uh I don't think his commentary reflects the values that this council necessarily um would support in in strategies on how to effectively u communicate and get
things done. So I strongly oppose that nomination and the candidacy is probably the biggest waiting one for me. Is there uh Mr. County Attorney is there any problems with n Russ with nominating somebody
who's a candidate? Not there's no legal prohibition. No sir. Okay. It's up to council entirely on that issue. Okay. Then uh Chris call the role on on Jason Boltz.
Mr. Jo Mr. Johansson. No. Mr. Kent, I don't I don't know the guy. So, is it too late for discussion? Chairman, we already had I guess we already had a vote. So,
um yes, Mr. Reinhardt, no. Mr. Robbins? No. Mr. Santiago? No. Mr. Dempsey? No. No. No. Okay. And Mr. Brower?
Uh yes, but he doesn't have enough uh votes. Interesting. Um so my uh next nomination would be Emily Bush,
who is a member of the PLDRC in good standing and um also a resident of uh um Ostein. Is there a second on Emily? A second for discussion.
Second by Troy Kent. And you had discussion. I don't know this person either. Okay. My name is up there though, chairman if that's okay. Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. So,
I can appreciate Mr. Santiago, where you're coming from. I don't I didn't know that last person. I've not heard anything about the last person. There are a couple names that have come up that um I say a couple too um that I
would not have chosen, but because my colleagues did, I felt like I'm going to support them because they did. I want them to support mine as well. So, I don't know anything about this person. So if anybody does if they can share it if there's some hesitation
that'd be great. Thanks David Santiago. Yeah, Troy, I I respect that. You know, I think we've generally have worked on this council along those lines, you know, that we try to support our colleagues, you know, as much as possible, and I think overwhelmingly we
do, right? Um, and for this particular issue, this is this is of such importance, this this charter review committee. That's why I kind of threw it out there. Let's give a little background on the individuals we're nominating, right? So, because I don't know everyone, like you just said, you don't know anyone. So, we only go by
what we see out there. Um, but however, I will say this as we continue. We're still we're about halfway through. I'm I'm not offended if any of you think one of my nominees may have challenges or like I I think I made a comment on
the last one doesn't necessarily reflect the values um of this council because that board is a reflection of us at the same time. So if if anyone has a concern of any member, especially in my nominee, I want to hear it. I won't be offended, right? Because this is what we do. We we
we take these make tough decisions. So um re re regarding um Miss Emily Bush, I know it was a struggle to get the second, Mr. Chair. Um isn't that interesting?
Why do you think that is? I I'm going to try to answer your question. I think it's a legitimate question. I I I think Miss Emily Bush is a smart individual. Um I'm very concerned on her advocacy style.
Just my opinion. Um, I've watched I've come and watched two. She currently sits on our um, PLLDRC board and I've watched her tactics on the PLDC
PLDRC board. I've spoken to our staff um regarding Miss Emily Bush on our PLDC board and they the feedback that I receive and what I see is not always of the most
professional mannerisms on how to treat staff and how to conduct yourself in that seat that we all sit in. Um, and not that I disagree with or agree with her opinions because I think she's a very smart individual and I've spoken to
her personally and I agree with some of her things. So, it's not a difference of opinion in thoughts. It is a reflection on this council and I've heard some very concerning things from our staff in how
she I'll be come out of saying it's how she's treated some of our staff and I don't want to put another group of staff members exposed to that. So with that with that comment, if if her nominee would come back up before us for PLDRC, I would vote no for her because of what
I've seen and what I've heard from staff. So it's firsthand knowledge and even very legitimate sources. So I think we have plenty of names to choose from. If we were struggling from names, then maybe would stretch it, but I don't think that's a reflection of what we should put on this board. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You're you're welcome. I'm not struggling for names. Um, I was very pleased when I saw Emily uh applied for this. I think she is extremely uh bright. She's a planner. Um, she does serve on the PLDRC. This is the first
I've ever heard that there was a problem with her on the PL. I don't know who the attorney is that sits there. Um but um you know here we are in public and we're uh criticizing people and and they they
have no ability to to respond and defend themselves and I I think it's I I just think that's wrong. There's three names that have been presented that um I'm sorry to see, but I've deferred to council members, other council members,
including you, um to let you have the people that you think best represent us. I would ask that you would give me that same um thoughtfulness. So anyway, Emily Bush, a planner. Um, yeah, she
she uh probably doesn't um uh lay down. She's able to defend her positions and her points. Um, so your name is up again. Yeah, I just wanted you to finish because I wanted I'm finished. No, this is part of the discussion. This is
what we're doing here, guys. Um, and again, I I respect her as an individual, Mr. Chair, and this is the process. I'm not trying to disparrage anybody, you know, publicly, but we have to discuss why and why not support someone. Um, but um I I I I even seen, so I'll share a
little bit more. I sat and watched even instances where um uh some of the information that she portrayed was accusatory towards staff and it was inaccurate. I seen it. This is not something I made up or heard or read on Facebook. I seen
it and I and I I've spoken to I don't want to put names out there, but um I'll leave it there, Mr. Chair. I just And I didn't think you were struggling for names, Mr. Chair. I don't think I wasn't accusing that. I what I'm saying is I think we have a lot of names. If we
didn't have a lot of names and we were struggling for people, then then we could have them more in depth. But I don't want to uh I think we have better choices. That's belly best way said. Well, and and that's your opinion. I think this is very unfair to to Emily and and to Jason. Uh Don Dempsey.
Yeah, I'm I've got to agree with you, David. Um I watch the PLLDRC meetings and I I just I don't know if it's an even exchange or if if she tends to dominate the conversations and stuff and with the the free discussion that we're
going to have here with all these uh choices, I don't know how it it'll interact. And I've heard other complaints as well. I don't want to disclose anything, but basically everything that you've said, David, in essence is what I've heard as well. So, I gotta agree with you, Dave.
Okay. Nobody else. Carissa, call the role, please. I'm up, sir. Please. Jake Johansson. Yeah. I I I just want to reiterate, I'm sorry and clarify that that um I've heard you say that it's not fair, but
but we all we all knew that it would come to individual uh individual votes on people's names and and and I have a list of of nine because I'm not sure you're going to approve my
two picks either. Um uh and so I I don't know how we can say we didn't know because we all knew we were going to vote for people and that and that there's an opportunity that the vote might not go in that person's way.
Um so uh I'm I'm prepared uh should you say no to mine uh to fight the good fight, but I have alternatives as well. So, uh, I I just don't want people to think, uh, uh, we're we're picking on one
person here. We're picking the best 15 is what we're doing. So, um, uh, having said that, I'm ready to vote. Okay. Yeah. I'm I'm not even going to touch that. Um, would you call the role, please? Mr. Johansson?
No. Mr. Kent? No. Mr. Reinhardt? No. Mr. Robbins? No. Mr. Santiago, no. Mr. Dempsey, no. Mr. Brower, yes. And she So, I'll try one more. Um,
uh, how about Joel Paige, District 3 restaurant owner, lives in New Simra Beach, involved in, uh, the city of New Samra Beach. I I'll second that. Joel Page has a second from David
Santiago. Chair, can you elaborate a little bit more on his does he have a any business background or successful business background? Anything um socially uh does his views kind of uh align with the direction of
this council? Anything that you can kind of collaborate uh or organize for us to give us a little bit better uh idea of who we're dealing with? Yeah, like I said, he's he uh is a restaurant owner in New Simra Beach. He
and his wife has owned uh two successful restaurants. Um his views align um very closely, not just to mine, but probably to this uh to this council. Um
he is involved in the city of of New Simra Beach. which I believe at one time he was a candidate for a a new Samura Beach um city councilman. Um he is not now. Um, uh, I've known him for a long time
and he's a decent decent, uh, man from a decent family and and and chair, I'm you know, trying to take some of that into consideration as well. But, um, yeah, I've known um Joel as as as well. And, uh, I don't
want to get into it, you know, personal life, but, uh, business-wise, you know, there's there's I don't know if there's a whole lot of success there uh to be honest with you. Uh but also to uh with social media and a lot of stuff
where my head is at is is looking to see who we can have to be able to have a conversation uh with a a very experienced group and not confrontation. Uh I think there's a big difference between the two when picking these and and making sure too that they're they're
qualified uh budgetwise. uh legal wise, you know, there's almost specific uh criteria that that I know I look for and probably some of our other colleagues, but um and also to how they would uh represent themselves, you know,
outside of here is is a direct reflection of how they represent this county. Um, I I wouldn't support uh Joel Page. Not not for not for this. Maybe another board, but not for I'm beginning to wonder if anybody will support anybody that I nominate. Joel,
again, this is unfair to Joel. He's a resident in good standing. Um, he's never been arrested. Um, he they do own a successful business. Um, so, you know, you're you're not going to vote for him. I I understand that. Um
question. Sure. David Santiago. Yeah. I I don't know who this Mr. Paige is. I've never met him. So, um but Danny's commentary made me think of something and I hate to put you on the spot, Danny. I mean if you want to elaborate but um you mentioned something
about uh social media commentary and um before you answer my question um I think when I opened also I say I believe people's this is an interview somewhat right a very basic one right so it it
goes back to again it's a reflection of this council we also got to make sure that whoever we appoint on these boards as as wide opinions opinions don't matter to me um as far as you know the what side someone's on as far as whatever decision-m process is but to
make sure that this board can govern properly can work together um and have constructive dialogue is of extreme importance to me right um and then whatever decisions they move forward they move forward so with that qualifier
sorry Danny can can you elaborate on what your concerns are on the if it's social media it's in the public space and I I'm sorry I'm putting on the spot, but it I don't know who he is. No. And and and David, I just gave my my
opinion and in kind of what I see. Um maybe it's a personality confict kind of like Miss Bush, right? And and when I look at this, this is a very um strong role that they're going to play. How
does some of you have to be qualified, you know? Uh, imagine Elon Musk just uh hiring anybody to uh send rockets into space. Um, this isn't like, you know what I mean? This is a very
I that completely goes over my That's That's great. I've I've sat you know, this is again this is just totally unfair to to this man. I have sat in many meetings with I I know but you're you're not saying
this is my nominee and what you're doing is just tearing him down. You don't even know him. I know him. I've sat in a lot of meetings with him where there was discussion amongst a wide variety of people. He's not disruptive. In fact, he
was really helpful. Um and so council, can I have my time back? What just happened? What happened? I missed something. Am I allowed to speak or finish my time? Yeah, you can speak. I don't think we're timing anybody, but
Well, I mean, maybe we should have. Chair, I Well, then I'll reclaim my time, but before I was interrupted, um, but chair, I'll just remind you this was a unanimous vote, including you, for this process.
We do have to vet these people. And I uh you know and I have trust my gut and they have to be qualified. In my opinion, I like Mr. Page as a person. He's not qualified for this
position. Thank you. Okay, let's I don't see anybody. Mr. Chair, before you vote, I I was just brought to my attention. You have a public comment for this item, sir? Uh we do. Katherine Pante, you have three minutes
to discuss item four. Some of the comments from councilmen I feel are really disturbing in reference to residents. Emily Bush, she's an urban planner. She also teaches at a college. She is more than qualified for this position. Danny
Robbins, his issues with Joel Page. Do his views line with the direction of this council? Meaning, are they development interests? He also knows that Joel Page supports his political opponent. Now, I'm going to get into my uh thing that I wrote
actually besides the little notes that I took. Good afternoon, council members. I respectfully urge the council to ensure that the appointments of the charter review commission are made with the public interest at the forefront. It is essential that the individuals with direct ties to development industry, including land use attorneys,
development interests, and former county council members be excluded from consideration for this commission. The charter review commission plays a critical role in shaping the future governance of our county. As such, it must reflect the voice and will of the general public, not serve as an avenue to further the interest of a specific
sector. Stacking this commission with individuals who are professionally or politically tied to development threatens the integrity of the brew process and risks eroding public trust. Please appoint members who are independent, community focused, and representative of the diverse voices of our residents. Thank you.
John Nicholson, John Nicholson Beach. Uh I've attended I think now four of these kind of um nominations dating back to the 80s. Um this is the first time that people have
been vetted which I think is great. All right. Secondly, um I don't know whether call me a gadfly or whatever you want to call. I don't hold office. However, I've noticed on our boards,
there are people that really shouldn't be on our boards. I mean, literally, uh we've got one person on the planning board who asked, "Do you have insurance?" And so, it's like, "What do you mean you have insurance? Can you pay for your building?" This is not in the purview of our
planning board. So, you need people who know what they're doing. And if you have to vet, which is what I think you're doing, and I think it's valid questions, then do it. Uh I don't feel that um
anybody's being maligned if somebody says they're not good for this board. You know how I feel about the diversity of this council. a lawyer, somebody who's been in county, somebody who's been in state, etc. That's a great
diversity. It gives you strength. It gives you knowledge. Why would you pick a board who doesn't have that kind of a background, who doesn't have the depth to do what's needed? Because this goes for 10 years, folks. It affects half a
million people. I like what you're doing. Please continue. Thank you. Okay. So, we'll have a uh David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wasn't planning to talk and again, I don't know this individual, but um
certain commentary has has helped me come to a no for this individual. Um and um what what what I've learned additionally is that this individual may have a radical approach to things. Uh and
that's not true. I I'll give you time to rebut, Mr. Chair, if you can. Um I I I've learned that uh just recently from from from a reliable source um that I think is reliable to me and uh that's not the kind of governing body we should have
there. Um again I don't know his views. I couldn't tell you one thing if he's I don't know if he's Republican, Democrat or anything. I don't know his views. But um I think the vetting process is to make sure we I I don't want to support any radical person or deemed considered
radical on either side of the aisle. Um commentary right now helped me say that my vote no is a good one for this individual and I couldn't pick them out on a lineup. I just want good governance to come out of this without any extremist positions. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. Okay. Joel is not an extremist. He's not radical. He doesn't strike out at people. Um uh maybe he doesn't align with some of the uh current candidates
up here. I I don't know. This is just beyond um bizarre to me. Um, so you know there what what I'm looking for with my nominations. I want to see th
this is a really important uh board and it'll affect our county for the next uh 10 or 20 years. And I'm looking for somebody that is knowledgeable, smart, and like all three of the people that
I've nominated um that can give us a fresh perspective, a new look. What we've got here is people that have been on um all the other board. We we know what they what they think. I think one of the speakers was was right. We're
looking at um continued uh uh development and could make SP 180 pale. Um you you know, you can take Danny's word. I'm telling you, I've been in many meetings with him with diverse groups of
people where Joel was um uh called to participate and discuss and did that without disruption. And um so uh anyway, Carissa, call the role for uh
Jake Johansson. Yes, sir. I I just want to reiterate for the public and and just I guess maybe for for my clarifi clarification, a lot was talked about with land development, but if I recall, any land
development decisions will come back to us. They're not automatic automatically put on the uh Yeah, it's just that Yeah, go ahead. Well, you have two things at play. uh you have since our last charter review
and this is one of the things we'll go over with the commission that you appoint uh any land use related item I'm being general there but land use related item has to be put on the ballot by you by uh and then now you have Senate Bill 180
right which you've changing but that prohibits us from even proposing uh a proposal so Uh, unfortunately that those two things are going to have
come into play for this cycle. Got it. Thank you, Don Dempsey. Oh, yeah. I um I just want to explain why I'm a no vote on this uh chair. Not because um I'm trying to pick on you or gang up on you
or anything of that nature, but I really I would like to see people on this committee who have business experience or people that I know personally. I know you said he's had a couple of uh restaurants, but on his on his resume here, I don't see any listing. All it
has for his prior employment information is retired and he was a fire a fireman prior to that. So, I I I love uh people who have signed the front of a paycheck. I'd like to have people who have been successful in business and know the
struggles of owning a business and operating a business and signing paychecks. Um, this doesn't have anything. This just shows his employment information retired and nothing else. So there really actually is nothing on his
uh there there really is nothing shown on his application as far as his experience. So that's why um apparently you and Danny have your own opinions of him and and David's heard something but so I just my gut is telling me that I
got to be a no vote but it's not because I'm trying to beat up your nominees. Okay. Well, I'm not making up what I what I said about him. He he does currently own a restaurant. He built it with his with his hands, he and his
wife, and and with help. Um it's it's uh on 44 in New Beach. Um so he he is a businessman, but I I you know, I can see where this is uh going
at least with three votes. So, let's just I don't want to beat up these people anymore. Um, Chris, call the role on Joel Page. Mr. Johansson, no. Mr. Kent, yes. Mr. Reinhardt, no. Mr. Robbins?
No. Mr. Santiago? No. Mr. Dempsey? No. Mr. Brower? Yes. And Joel is not uh confirmed either. So, I I hate to do this to another person. Um,
this will be interesting because she's she serves on boards, but I will nominate Suzanne Shyber. Second. Any feedback on Suzanne? Troy Kent. Yeah, thanks, Chairman. Um, I appointed
Suzanne to our our board that she serves on. And I'll be the first to tell you Suzanne was not um in the corner of Troy Kent. She she was not in support of me
or my candidacy. And I was okay with that because I love what she's done with Dream Green Valuchia and the Watergoat idea and the implementation of it in Holly Hill. I
feel like she gives a tremendous amount of her time to make our community better and very selfless acts. I think she's become unfortunately a lightning rod because I
think she's gotten involved in in some politics in the past and maybe hurt some feelings. But in council, I'll just tell you, I'm going to be very raw with you right now. I reached out to my I asked my wife to
reach out to Suzanne to ask her if she would serve on Valuchia forever as my appointment. And my wife was shocked because of the things that she felt had been said about me. And we had Keith
Chester stand before us when I made that nomination. And you remember, I believe his quote was something along the lines of, you know, Mr. Kent, you're a good man or whatever because he knew more about it than I did. But I can just tell you, I have
worked with Suzanne. I have met with her. I feel like her viewpoint on this commission would be positive. Otherwise, I wouldn't have seconded the motion.
So, that's why I'm I'm in support of the chairman with this nominee um with Suzanne Shyber. Thanks. Thank you, David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Troy, thanks for that explanation there. You know,
I'll add this to that. Well, and and this proves hopefully my my position that um she and I have very differing opinions on many things. All right. Um but what I will say that I felt that every time she's interacted with us,
she's done it in a professional manner. Uh and um it is not necessarily the the content, it's how she delivered it. And I'm willing to accept that. So, it's it's differing views are good. I don't have a problem with that. There's enough strong people that I think we've already
appointed that can give differing views and to me it's to make sure that this this board at the makeup um can work together and I think she's capable of working with others and offering her opinion and let those chips fall where they may. So, I I could live with her
nomination on that one. Okay. Uh, Chris, would you call the role on Suzanne Shy? Mr. Johansson? Yes. Mr. Kent? Yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes.
Mr. Dempsey. Mr. Brower. Yes. So, Suzanne Shiver is confirmed. And that takes us to Don Dempsey. Uh, Nate Ingram. I'm sorry.
I believe Mr. Johansson would be next. No, we're going backwards. It's Don Dempsey. I believe you too, Carissa. Second. Okay. Nate Ingram. He's actually the gentleman sitting underneath the monitor with his
hand up. He's already spoken before. As you may or may not recollect, he's former law enforcement officer, I believe, for 27 years. He's had a certificate. um I believe with Flaggler County is where he served. I serve or in Port Orange. Okay. Um he also is a
commercial residential realtor. He has a lot of dealings with the county in um different projects and uh as he said, he's a pastor. I've known him for a long time. I've heard his sermons and I I just I like I like the guy both in his
business experience as well as his his moral. I just I I like the guy and I just I would feel more than comfortable with Mr. Ingram. Matt, you seconded it. Second by Robbins. I don't see any questions. All in favor of Nate Ingram,
say I. I. Any opposed? Nate's confirmed. Seven to zero. And that takes us to David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to nominate uh Stephanie Wolfford. Um she's got legislative experience background uh and
healthc care and government experience uh and healthcare. Yeah. Second. You already seconded. I third it. Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. No questions on her. All in favor say I. I.
Any opposed? Stephanie is confirmed seven to zero. And that takes us to Danny Robbins. Uh retired Chief Judge James Clayton. Uh his reputation is is renowned. Uh he's
very solid guy over done what 35 years in law. Uh as an attorney. Oh yeah. More than that. 40. Probably. Uh very wide knowledge of uh our our local, state, and federal issues. uh and
overqualified actually for the job. He's my nomination. Second, James Clayton with a second from uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. And um I'm I'm going to have to oppose him. uh
not because you opposed everyone that I came up with, but because I've been uh involved in a um neighborhood dispute um in a very rural neighborhood that uh he
is trying to um to change uh into a heavily uh density the uh development and um with an inability
to work with his neighbors. And for me, if you're talking about somebody who's going to work with a board, if you can't work with your neighbors, um that's a that's a no for me. Um any other
discussion on him than Danny Robbins. Chair, do you have a um the project you can reference uh that way? Yeah. The acorage that he owns with his home. That's Is there a proposal that's coming in? Is
there some sort of conflict uh that would prohibit him staff? Do we have anything on the book? I had no no conflict that would keep you from nominating him. I'm just telling you you've had just as you've had issues
with people that I've nominated that you don't think would be sufficient. I don't like I said if you can't if you can't talk with your neighbors and resolve issues then that's uh Jim was a judge. I don't know him like
that you know. So thank you. Okay. Uh James Clayton. Uh all in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? I So, he's confirmed six to one. And that takes us to uh Matt
Reinhardt. Thank you, chair. Uh my name I can't even talk right now. My nomination is Billy Wheeler. Uh former county councilman sat on numerous boards uh familiar with that process. Uh canvasing boards, TDC,
uh TPO. So, she's very familiar very familiar with this process. Is there a second on Billy Wheeler? Second. Second by Danny Robbins. Any questions? All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Billy Wheeler is confirmed.
Seven to zero. Uh Matt Reinhardt. Uh Troy Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Council, my my second nominee is a gentleman named Nicholas Sakenovski. I'm going to tell you right now on a
national level, Nick and I don't agree politically. We don't. Nick is a retired educator from Miami Dade. He worked in the library system. Him and his wife Alice, reside in Margaritavville in District 4.
I am fortunate, Heather and I are fortunate that about twice a year we get to meet them somewhere for dinner. And I always say Nick is probably one of two people that I've had the pleasure of meeting in my life that when I leave the
meeting, I feel smarter after talking to him than when I arrived at the at the dinner meeting. Um, I think that he would bring a a wealth of of knowledge. He is a studier by nature. He
serves on our housing finance authority right now. I appointed him and you all agreed with that. He was appointed in 2023 of June and I think he would be a good um a good voice on on that committee as well. Second. Thank you.
Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any questions? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Nicholas is confirmed. Seven to zero. And that takes us back to Jake Johansson. Yes, sir. I'd like to nominate uh Ken Parker. Ken is a retired
city manager, 28 years in Port Orange. He is a international city and county manager association advisor. uh well-versed on the uh the forms of government including council manager
which we are and uh I think he would be value added uh being a lifetime member of Lucia County and well maybe not lifetime but uh having lived here for quite quite a long time and been through
uh countless u charter commission um programs both at the county and uh at the city Port Orange. Is there a second? Second. Second by Troy Kent. And chairman, Mr. Johansson, I'll just
say the way I look at describing Mr. Parker, correct me if I'm wrong, was that no nonsense. Like he's a to the point. Very much so. Okay. Very much so. Yeah, that's that's was my recollective. That's that's another good reason.
Yes, I would agree. Okay. Ken Parker with a second from Troy Kent nominated by Jake Johansson. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? He's confirmed seven to zero which takes us to the
uh nominee from the entire board. David Santiago. Now I was sitting here thinking about that. I didn't have anybody prepared to nominate, but I I'd like to hear what my colleagues think in names, but I wanted to throw at least two out there that we could discuss or maybe others. you. Um,
I wanted to see if there's any consideration for Jason Meyer or Sarah Lee Moresy. Jason Meyer. I don't know Sarah Lee well. I know Jason Meyer and I think he'd be an excellent very uh um accomplished businessman
successful and just just I said her name let me and let me Sarly Morsy has got a background in the school I think from a um I forgot what her title was but um operations what was it operations director of operations
of operations and again it's it it's also part of the diversification right of uh backgrounds Um, and you know, obviously Jason's a small business owner in the area. Um, I think they I could be okay with either one of them, but I wanted to throw both names out there because I think they add
different perspectives um and a different value. U I think they both serve us well. Uh Jake Johansson. Yes, sir. I'd like to toss uh Amy into that as well. Um we see Amy quite a bit.
uh when it comes to the western part of of uh northwestern part of the county. Uh she's an advocate for uh Deleon Springs and and and even farther than
that. Uh she's a voice of reason. Uh we we've heard her here a few times. She writes to us occasionally and keeps us up to speed on what's going on at Dillian Springs. And um um overall a god-fearing great person and
and I'd like to see her get a chance as well. Jake, can you repeat what was her background? I I missed that part. Sorry. She is the um she is a representative of the Deleon Springs community Amy, I'm sorry, community association. but she's
the one that sends us uh emails occasionally on what's going on in Dillian Springs and and um and usually thanks us when things are going well and lets us know when there's things that demand attention as the atlarge rep. I get a lot of that, but uh she's also
come up and spoken to us. Would you characterize her as a somewhat member of the like rural community? Very much so. Okay. Very much so. I actually like that. So that's why I asked. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I would I would just add I I would be
opposed to to Amy. Um Jake, I think I think if there's anybody that's argumentative and and uh radical, it's it's her. Um she does live in our my community in Gleon Springs. I believe her and her husband are developers.
Um uh but um anyway, Troy Kent, thank you, Chairman. Um Mr. Johansson, I appreciate the background because I I don't know Amy. Um she
sounds like she would be great. Um I also like that she comes from a rural background. And I'll also just say to Mr. Santiago. Um I I don't know Jason Meyer very well, but I did have a very positive uh meeting with him over over
the summer and I think that he would be a good choice as well. So, you know, our issue is we only have one left. Um so, we'll see where the chips fall with that. Matt Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. And and any one of these are fine with me. Um the reason
why uh Sarah Lee Moresy uh when we were talking about her, she is my appointment for ENRACK and she actually chairs the ENRACH. Um she was in 95 a member of the charter review commission for the city of Daytona Beach. She testified in front
of this charter in 2005 and 2015. I'm reading this right from her uh from her application. She's a board member for the Valia League of Women Voters. uh and uh she the Florida planning conference at the ocean center which is very near and
dear to all of us up here. So very very involved in the community. I've I've met with Sarah Lee on numerous occasions. Uh and we don't see eye to eye on everything. I can tell you that right now. But she's a very very smart, very bright woman. Uh and um I' I'd be happy
with her. I'd be happy with Jason. Very successful business owner. uh thinks outside the box uh from what I witness home. So, and of course I know Amy very well too. So, I'm fine with any one of these. I don't know if it takes somebody to make the motion to put one up, but
I mean it would be it would be a hard choice. Yeah, I think any member of council can make a motion. Yeah, I know. And it's a very hard choice. So, I'm kind of interested to see there's a couple more people that want to talk. So, uh to see where they go, but I'm I'm in support of any of those all three of these. David Santiago.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I just wanted to add, you know, I threw out Sarah Lee's name in there. I wanted to add what Commissioner, Council Member Reinhardt said. Um I I I got to interact with Miss Morsy back when I was on the Deltona City
Commission from 03 to07 and I can assure you that 85% of the times we were on opposite sides of issues. Um and um and uh I think still she would serve well on this board because it's again it's not about the views, it's about diversity
and capable of working with a governing board. I that's why I I threw her name out there and I'd be willing to accept it. Um and um Mr. Chairman, since I got the mic, I'll just make a motion. You never pass up an opportunity.
So, uh, I move that we appoint Sarah Lee Morsy to the board. And I'll second that. Okay. We have a motion of Sarah Lee, second by Vice Chair Kintar, Don Dempsey.
Yeah, I'm just I'm She seems like a good selection as well as Miss Nizzy. But, um, this Jason Meyer, I'm I'm very impressed with his resume. Uh, he, uh, he's just he's a very successful business owner. I think
he would, uh, bring a lot to the committee as far as making sure that we're keeping, uh, the economy here is, you know, addressed in these discussions and stuff like that. So, I I really I'm not going to vote no only because I'm
more in favor of Mr. Meyer. Thank you, Troy Kent. Thank you, Chairman and Mr. Johansson. I'm I'm more in favor of Amy Munisi. So, I put that out there. You know, I was I I put my name up because I was going to make a motion for her. And Mr. Santiago,
who is super sharp and knows when to attack, um, you know, was able to to get that motion there. Um, nothing against Miss Morsey. I I would I would vote for her just about any day of the week, but I like what you said about Amy. I like
the rural background. Um I like the participation. So, I'm I'm going to hold off and see if we can if we can get Amy on there. Mr. Johansson, David Santiago, I just want to ask my my colleagues if they're willing to chime in and opine.
Um that way we can take one vote maybe on on either Amy or not. If we would do what? If if you would opine on some the the name the additional names. Um I know there's a motion in play, Mr. Chair. Yes. But uh you know if there's if they would verbalize Jason, Amy, or
Sarah Lee. Yeah. If the vote's not there, then we'll change it. Sure. All right. Let's start down the with Don. Tell us u Jason Meyer because he likes Jason background. Jason Meyer business experience. Amy for me.
Troy is Amy. David, I made the motion, so I'll stick with the motion at this point. Which was Sarah? Sarah. Yes, sir. I'll be uh Jason Meyer. I'm gonna since I stuck with the second, I'll stick with you David
with Sarah Lee. Danny Robbins. Uh Jake Johansson Amy, Mr. Chair, yes. I want to withdraw my nomination of Sarah Lee Morrisy. Um if my second I don't think I need you to withdraw
withdraw it and nominate Amy we whatever he said for the board. Okay. So now we have a nomination for Amy Manuzzi. Um, call the role again for her.
Do you have a second? Johansson. Mr. Johansson? Yes. Mr. Kent? Yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Dempsey?
Yes. Mr. Brower? No. And Amy's pass 621 is confirmed to the board. And that takes care of item four. Yes, sir. And just so you know, so we'll get in touch with them, let them know
the first organizational meeting September 3rd, 5:30 Wednesday out at the uh Daytona Beach International Airport. Okay. Item five is a special exception for 195 foot tall communication tower at 2665
Vulco Road. Carol McFarland. Good afternoon. Hello. Carol McFarland, Planning and Development Services Director. This application in front of you is a special exception for 190 foot tall
communications tower um an A1 property. So we've actually seen this item before on June 3rd. It was discussed um had a robust conversation with council on June 3rd. Um after listening to public comment and um the discussion, the
direction to staff was to review um policies within the county within the city and the county as well as our history of approvals um and industry standards to see um what appropriate setbacks would be between communication towers and single family residences.
Um on July 22nd, the uh case was delayed again. um to give the applicant additional time to work with their neighbors. Oh, I hit the wrong button. Okay, there we go. Thank you, Carissa. Here's a location map and an aerial map.
As you can see, these are, you know, large lot agricultural uses. There is active a on here. Um there are cattle that are um in some of the larger properties, the larger ones. This
We've got the A1 zoning and the agricultural resource feature land use. Um I don't know how far you want me to get into this since we did talk about it on June 3rd. Um but it's a 195 foot tall um communications tower. Our code does
require that we provide or the communications tower provides antenna space for other uh carriers so that we're not you know every carrier has their own tower. we try to colllocate. So they do have u three future antennas provided and they're looking at a fall
radius of 95 ft. Mr. Chair, I may point of order. Yes. What's your point? Um may maybe for in in the interest of time. Yeah. If she could provide us we heard the presentation on all the tower stuff. We we sent staff back and the applicant
back to talk to figure out if there's additional radiuses or locations of Yes. If we can just stick our commentary to what's different from the last meeting and then we can go from there. That's okay. So, we did review local ordinances as well as our history. Valuchia County
since 2010 has approved 13 special exceptions for communication towers. Out of those, eight of them uh were got waivers to single family resident setbacks. Five of those eight waivers were between 500 and 550 ft. So we do
see an established pattern of giving these waivers for residential setbacks. We also looked at the 16 cities. Only three cities have a setback that's 1,000 ft or more, which is what our code is. The majority of the cities uh look at
the tower height for their setbacks. Um one to three times of the tower height. The applicant did submit some additional information. um I believe it was yesterday and they are here um to talk about they looked at
uh different places on the site and if there was a way to site it so that it wouldn't be as close to um the nearest house which is 748 ft away. So um the applicant is here if you want to talk
about that study that he submitted. It should be available on supplemental information on the agenda item as well. They provided I believe it was three different locations um and they were having a difficult time finding another another place for it to be. I know that
there was a lot of back and forth with the neighbors. I'll let the applicant um follow up with that. As far as as I understand I think there's still opposition. Okay. Be and I'm sorry this is a quasi judicial hearing. I was just going to say before you go
any further this is quasi judicial. If anybody has any exparte to declare, please do so. Now, uh Danny Robbins uh did have conversation with uh the applicant and uh a couple residents in the area that
were concerned about the uh fall um radius, I guess you would call it, of the tower. Did you also have a question for staff yet? Go ahead, Mr. Actually, it's for the for the applicant, Mr. Posey. How are you? Um, I'm just
trying to see that way we don't have to rehash uh everything. Our biggest concern or my biggest concern down there too uh was the the feet away from the house is that's what I'm hearing from from the residents and it's just I I will note that it's just the residents that are close by. They just don't want
this thing obviously falling on the house. Who would, you know? Uh so were we able to uh remedy this or come up with a uh possible solution or something to diffuse um that?
Good uh good good afternoon. Joey Posie, 420 South Nova, attorney for the applicant. Uh and uh well, we made our best attempt to be honest with you. Um you know, we looked and we gave every neighbor an opportunity to try to site a location on their property as an alternative. um the wisdom in that
between whether this property or another property is a better site. You know, I'm not here to judge, but uh we did make that attempt and the um two of the sites just didn't get past the carrier. Uh I submitted letters on behalf of those carriers denying that coverage would uh
be uh acceptable on those properties and they weren't able to achieve the same coverage criteria that the carrier would able to utilize at the current property. One of them um didn't necessarily get the same denial, but we took it a step further and said, "Okay, now that we
have this property, uh what's it going to cost?" And uh the difficulty with this site is it has wetlands that would have to be impacted. And those wetland impacts plus a roadway to connect into the property would add an additional
quarter of a million dollars to the site for just a cell tower. Uh so from the perspective of the well I suspect from the carrier too that it just isn't feasible that you know although it's uh the location uh you know we ran the
numbers we try to get there uh the three that were offered uh by the neighboring property owners just were not feasible alternatives. Uh and maybe for Councilman Dempsey's um uh just to add some clarity and some context um you know there was as part of the original
application and submittal in the presentation that you had heard the last hearing that you know we we went through a full appraisal of alternative sites. We went through and we had the engineers that are both the structural engineers for the tower testify as to the fall
radius and also submitted that evidence. We also had an engineer from the uh the carriers to explain why there's a gap in coverage. Um but again trying to be good neighbors and seeing if there is alternatives. It's just this this site just is the is the site. This is the one
that works. Um you know I do feel for them. Uh the one clarity I think I want to make sure is on the record for their knowledge is I think there's some confusion about this tower prohibiting them from building and that's not how the code reads. uh this is simply a
requirement for the tower itself. It doesn't otherwise regulate the use of their properties. So uh wanted to alleviate concerns from that perspective. But um you know from from purposes of the code criteria uh you know we're only asking about the waiver and I do appreciate the effort staff put
in to add all of that context in the staff report of uh I didn't see any denials for waiverss but the most recent one in 2024 was far closer to the nearest resident than this one. And you know again I do not know the context but we did add uh we do have a fall radius
study from a structural engineer. Uh we do have at least even the additional above and beyond of trying to reach out to those neighbors and make best efforts we could. So um if there's any clarity I I'm happy to run through my presentation again if you'd like me to. But um to
answer Councilman Robin's question uh you know we did make the best effort we could and we do appreciate their cooperation because they are good people. We we understand and you know change is you know I can understand from their perspective. It's just you know it's something that's a little different out there and it it's you know it's having difficulties trying to bridge
that gap. Were you finished Danny? Okay. Uh Joy Kent. Thank you chairman. You know a little something about cell phone towers. Just enough to be dangerous. So, it's 2025 and if I lose Wi-Fi at my house, sometimes I've got to get
aluminum foil just right on my pinky and lean a certain way to get cell service in my house. And I'm just wondering, how did President Nixon in 1969 talk to them on the moon with no delay with all of these cell phone towers? Like when
you drive down 95, like I pay attention to it now. I point out to my family, I'm like, "Let's count the cell phone towers on either side of 95 as you're going down." So, a serious question, but not a serious question. I don't expect you to answer it. Thank you. No, of course. And and that's partly why
this exercise is important because it's my point is that, you know, it's it's it's obviously needed. Jake Johansson, Mr. Posian, just uh a quick question. Did did you the the main concern from the citizens is still there's a little
bit of viewshed but most of it is safety correct right and moving it will cost way too much was there any discussion uh and I'm sorry if it's in the staff report and I didn't read it but is there was there
any discussion about allaying their fears by by helping them insurance wise is would that be cheaper? Like if we guarantee it won't fall on you, but if it does,
will will help your insurance or something like that? Well, that's an interesting question. Uh I think from our perspective, the you the thing we try to reassure them is that you know the fall radius of this is 95 ft. Um it's the closest structure is about
750 ft. uh it's in the in from a structural engineers perspective I imagine that doesn't have a statistical significance as to whether there will be damage or whether will be an issue to alleviate fears and to continue and try to assist in that way.
Uh I I don't know their insurance coverage per se. Um I'm I don't have an objection necessarily to trying to assist them from that perspective. I I don't think additional insurance is the way to solve that problem. I think it's just being comfortable with the fact that um you know there's above and
beyond uh evidence to try to alleviate those concerns and to also put them in a position that um you know the the worst case scenario is not the scenario. That's that's not on the table. It's it's really just how do we how do we
find the appropriate spot and after we have found that appropriate spot, how do we alleviate concerns in a way that just that addresses I think the bigger issue which was just trying to um you know just a general objection to the to a tower itself. And you know, I'm I'm
happy to always be at that table, but I I don't necessarily think I can solve that uh without um I think we're just going to agree to disagree to some respects when it comes to whether the nature of what the use of this property is. I I got you. I'm just I'm looking for a
win-win here. You know, I I um I flew around after Hurricane Katrina and I saw things that don't belong in people's front lawns in people's front lawns. and and the guy that owned that barge, I'm sure, never thought that his barge would be in a guy's front lawn 2
miles inland. Um uh I I don't know. I'm just looking for some way to to get get the folks to to go Yeah, that's worth it to me to assume a little bit of risk. Just just trying to think out of the box and get you where you want to go. Peace.
Uh, Councilman Johansson, maybe a better way to look at this is that I think the representation in the guarantee that the tower itself carries casualty insurance is probably a better assurance. Um, and I just confirm that that is the case. And if that becomes a stipulation that
there has to be evidence of insurance that's carried by that tower, then I I don't feel I don't believe there's an objection from my clients. Yeah. And and if if the residents concerned are aware of that and are comfortable with that, then I'd be more
comfortable with a Yes. Thank you. Don, did you have a question for Yeah. Okay. Don Dempsey. Um I think I heard you if I heard you right you said the fall distance is 90 some feet 95 correct 95 feet but the tower is 100
and how many feet is it tall yeah that's correct 195 okay how is it because this a this is a monopole communication tower so it's a solid pole how does it only fall 95 ft out when it's 190 ft
there was an extensive discussion from the structural engineer the the first hearing and I think what I'll do is I'll defer to the consultant to maybe give a brief synopsis of this to explain the nature of how the poll's designed because it doesn't fall in a static way.
It's it it collapses. It's the way it's designed. Thank you very much. Uh Jonathan Yates, uh 105 Broad Street, Charleston, South Carolina. Uh, I br I brought with us the actual fall
zone determination. Councilman Dempsey, what happens with these? This is what we call a monopole. What is a monopole? Monopole is a pylon steel structure. Uh, you see a monopole in front of a Hardies or Walmart, but we have a Our Pylon is
built with much thicker steel. If I can explain the way the monopole is supposed to work, and I promise I'm not going to break the equipment. I promise I won't break it. Think of a straw. What this is designed to do, and this was designed by Florida professional engineer Robert Beacum. He first designed it to the ANC
TIA 222H standard for the Lucia County of 140 mile per hour wind. I live on the coast also. I hope and pray we do not have that wind this fall. He designs to the Anie standard. Then he designs in what is called the fall the break point.
Can you speak into that other microphone? That'd be more helpful. Thank you. He designs in the break point or fall zone. So in a 500year catastrophic event, what is it designed to do? Think of a straw. It's designed to deflect over, not really detach, but designed to
deflect over. And he's certified that to within a 95 ft fall radius. The purpose of that that contains it on Miss Kempay's property. We want the fall zone contained on the property. In regards to the other properties, this particular
facility is 740 ft 748 ft away from the um dwelling on the property, but we had Mr. Beham design it and it's a factor of steel. He simply has to continue to beef up the steel to achieve that fall zone.
So when you see, and I hope we don't see it this fall, I hope and pray we don't. When you see the hurricanes come come through, for the most part, the towers stay intact. Where we have a problem with a tower, a lot of times we found if a barge or a section of bridge becomes
airborne and becomes a missile, you know, that can take out a section. But it's designed to give with the wind, think of a straw, 95 ft. Why 95 ft? We want it has to be contained on this on Miss Payne's property and he is
certified to that. Mr. Pico, do you do you happen to know if the one in Lake County that went down after the tornado about 5 years ago, was that also a monopole? I do not know. I do not know. Now, a tornado, right,
if you get a direct hit by a tornado, that one fell straight in it. It again, what they're designed to do is just come down where they are. And obviously too after a catastrophic event, the pressure is on. If a facility has been t harmed in any way, whether
moisture got into the equipment, we're under a real push to get up quickly because folks are depending on us. That is the primary. You know, after a storm, when everything's down, folks are trying to let people in the country, rest of the country know they're okay. People
from the rest of the country are trying to see if they're okay. We're under a push to get our sites up back quickly. Failure, if it happens, think of a straw. We got to get it back quickly so folks can talk to each other. Okay. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. We have uh three members of the public that would like to speak on this. Let's hear from them first before we go on. Robert Brown. and you'll be followed by Greg uh Petsac and then Dr. Wendy Anderson.
Hello, Robert Brown. I'm 2695 Vulca Road directly west on the 745 48 ft away. The two people that can't be here today, one is directly to the south right across the street, 5 acres. One is directly to the east, five acres.
One to the south just retired. He's fixing to put a home out there. And if they put this tower up, he won't be able to get 500 feet away from it, no matter what he does. And the man to the east, he will not be able to get 500 ft away from this tower. So in defense of them, I'm speaking. Now, they spoke of the
tower itself. What about what's attached to the to the tower? They don't speak of that. That's a concern in mine. And also there is another viable place that'll get 500 ft away from the nearest house, but it's a little more of an expense. I think they spent minor amount of money
trying to locate another place to put it because they got so much invested as they've said to me, they got so much invested into where they're at right now. They don't want to change it. So that says the real estate guy says it doesn't affect the value of your property. If
you can't put a home on your property, it's pretty much affected from what I see. So, if they can't build get 500 feet away, they can't put a home. If that that's what I understand, they're trying to tell me that that 500 ft is just for them building it. But if the law says
you can't be within 500 ft, then you can't be within 500 ft. So, that's my concern for Mike and Matt who come out be here today to the east and to the south. So, there is another location. If they have to have this tower, it might cost a little more, but
there is another location. I just don't think they want to spend the money. And they tell me I can't look at it from my to the east from my house and use vision as a way out to not want it. It's not that we don't want it. We don't want it. But we definitely don't want two pieces
of property they paid close to 100,000 each for to be useless because they put us 99 ft away from the guy to the east and approximately 100 ft from the guy to the to the south. So that's there is another place to put it.
Thank you. I think you might have an answer to that from staff, right? Um Paulo had a wonderful legal term for it. It's called um the setback is not reciprocal. So you can build within that distance of a communications
tower. It's when the communications towers first goes in, they have to try to be away from the homes. There's absolutely no restrictions on homeowners building structures on their properties. Thank you. Uh Greg, are you here?
Yes. Hi, Greg Petsac. Live at 4721 Lingo Grove Road. Um, my property is just south of uh where the tower's going. And the one thing was when they were bringing in cleared from Bobby's house. They never mentioned from the base of
the tower the clearance from that to my house at all. So, I don't know what the distance is going to be. The other part was um if if you know Vulco Road out there, we flood and we I did drop uh back in
July, I dropped a bunch of packages off and they had some pictures in there of Vocco Road if you got them. They had that was taken at my barn gate right there across from the proposed site and that was under two feet of water. So when we got a we got a good storm, all
the water will run from Cow Creek, Lingo, Tangelo, everything feeds into Vulco and the east end of my property banks up to the uh St. John's which that's supposed to be the flood zone there. It's already filled up now and then you can't put you start putting
more water in there, it's coming back up. So, you know, it's kind of a bad area to put it. And um I've never heard back from them when we offered a couple other sites to where where they want to put it. And it's kind of funny was they need this site here, but why not look at
the other side of um 95 on 442 with Dear Park goes in it. It'll be perfectly right across from that, maybe two miles, and do the same coverage that they're looking for. So, thank you.
Thank you. Uh Wendy Anderson. Thank you. Wendy Anderson. I live in Dand. Um I was asked by the homeowners around this property um to take a look at this uh several weeks ago and I did. I've been I I do this for a lot of people all over the county because I've
kind of gotten known for this. And um and what the first thing I noticed was that this entire area is in the Nurma, the natural resource management area, which does have some some extra restrictions on it for how things can be developed. Um the site itself is not
technically a wetland by St. John's River Water Management District um designations, but the whole area is wetland high hardwood hammock and hardwood swamp. The only reason this particular site is not a wetland um
designated by St. John's is because it was drained in the early 1900s for orange groves and um and so it is drained but the soils are still hydric soils. So I think the structural question for the engineer is not so much about the pole and thank you for the 951
195 question that was going to be my first one like seventh grade geometry you know says right um but but how is this thing going to be anchored of course these all have guywires but are they are they sure that anchoring into
hydric soils which as the previous gentleman just said do in fact stay saturated with water for a good bit of the year. This elevation is between 6 and 8 feet. They can tell us the exact elevation, but the exact but the whole site is between 6 and 8 feet above sea
level. And as as you go east, you're going down into 543 elevation above sea level. And it is swamp land. It is these soils are really soggy and not very stable. So, I don't
care if the wind bends it in the middle, you know, like this. Um, are those anchors and the guywires going to hold? I think that's a really important question. Um, of course, the nearest house is only 748 ft or maybe closer. Um, according to the other gentlemen, I am worried about the people who own the
land just to the east. Um, yes, there may not be a law that preempts them from building that close to a tower, but this tower is being cited on the very far east end of the property. And so if it were to fall to the east, it does
basically take out about half of that other property owner's possibility of building and not have a tower fall in their house. So um so I don't know, this seems like maybe not the best place. And if there is another option, even if it costs a little more, um I would
recommend that they go back to the table on that. And um and then maybe just to end with a um a thing that I don't believe but I saw on the internet once um and that's meant to to get a chuckle but um I do hear and and I'll I know
this my my uh the the other people who are trying to get the tower in won't agree with this. Cell phone towers will be obsolete in about 15 years. So um anyway that's probably not true and we do need them between now and then. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh, Don Don Dempsey, David Santiago. I move to approve the special exception as requested. David Santiago makes a motion to approve. Is there a second?
Second, Johansson. And for uh discussion, Jake Johansson. Um I I think I have something. No, not right now. No, I'm good. I I'll chime in for discussion. Mr.
David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I appreciate everybody's commentary. We gave the the applicant instructions to go work with the neighbors and see if there were alternative sources of locations um and to address some of the concerns and they've attempted that as
we all know we've been in this process long enough that's a very difficult task when um you're trying to combat something you know people's concerns um at the end of the day we need towers uh I it's it's a way of life for us so I
I see it also as as a life safety I'm not a cell phone engineer or tower engineer and we've been submitted a documentation by people that have these credentials. I I have no reason to question them. No, nothing has been presented to us to question these
professionals with degrees to say that what they're saying is not true. So, um while I I'm I'm sympathetic to someone maybe not wanting to see a tower um from their their yard, but ultimately we need these things. I think it's a public
safety issue also. Um and we have to the the reward is is much more beneficial for a greater amount of the population in Valuchia County and those that that um trans transit through I95. So um I
think we should approve this this request. Uh Danny Robbins I'm sorry I'm ready. So, you know, we we talk about some options and some good and bad things. One of the things that that that I was
trying to think about how to say, but uh the ground that this thing is going to be built on uh it was described as is saturated. Um well, at some certain point it probably isn't saturated below
the saturation. Um, uh, I've seen many a wind farm built in the water. That water is saturated. Bridge spans built in the water. That water saturated. Um, if any
of you have been out to the West Coast, most of San Francisco is built on land that that foundationally probably isn't the smartest thing. Yet, they managed it. So, I'm I'm I'm counting on the engineers to to do the right thing.
As I know I know they are, but but uh um um I that's that's just an argument that that doesn't really float with me unless unless we have a um you know, some fly by night guy building a 195 foot tower.
So, I'm I'm good with everything as they engineered it. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. Council, I I still uh share the same concerns as we did before. Uh and it's
kind of compatibility uh in that area. I don't want to beat the dead horse here. I know everybody's working hard uh to try to get uh to a yes. But also too, I see some of the the safety concerns uh uh of of my residents
there. So, um I don't know if I'll be able to support this one. Thanks. U can you respond to the question about the soil? Again, Joey Posie 420 South Nova. We actually were just pulling the topos and
we do not see the same evidence that was um I guess alleged to be the case on this site and again it's it has to be built to the you know the minimum standard of the code. It's not something that is a exercise and to see if it can work. It's an exercise of that these
things are safe. They uh it's being designed to every criteria and the only question that we're asking today is whether or not the waiver and it's what's being requested is an applicable waiver for the special exception. That that's the limited question today. It meets all the other criteria of the
special exception evidence presented. And I I do appreciate the neighbors. I really do. and in and the guys if there was a viable site you know these folks have been open and honest about having and entertaining that but um you know I can't in good conscience say that go spend another4 million dollars and
impact a wetland as the viable alternative that's that's not a fair request for these folks either so and then it becomes a question of you know how long do we move the goalpost until we find something we like um but um just wanted to briefly mention that and um
again I have not heard any evidence of to the contrary to a special exception. But, uh, I do appreciate them and I do appreciate their cander and trying to make this work, too. Well, here's I I'll have one more question for you, but here's how I'm looking at it is move. You just said
moving the goalpost. It's it's Verizon that's moving the goalposts. The the neighbors thought they had 1,000 ft to deal with. Now, we're being asked to change that to 780 feet. So they thought they had a law in place to protect them and now we're being asked to change the
law. So it's 780 ft uh to the closest one, but if they build maybe it's 500 ft. So we are restricting if they don't want to do that. That's their choice, but we're restricting them from from building. Then my question that's really important to me is that I think you said
there is a donut there. There's there's no coverage. Is is that true that there's no cell phone coverage or is there just no Verizon cell phone coverage? There's a coverage deficiency and the maps that were provided at the last hearing illustrate that along that area of Vulco and especially at 95 that
there's a there's a drop in coverage whether you can achieve for Verizon or everybody. It's specific to at present there are two carriers uh Dish Wireless Boost Mobile and Verizon. We've also heard word that T-Mobile also
wants to take a look at this. It's what we call a deficit area. Not a not a complete wasteland, but poor throughput, poor co call call quality. It needs to be improved. It's trying to play off of two other towers. One over two miles to
the north, one over two miles to the south. We're trying to fill this hole so you can have seamless. And again, when you get back to the public safety, if someone's in a situation, you want them to be able to pull a phone off their hip and call 911. You have
alert Valuchia, the emergency notification system. That's real important because it gets information out to folks when storms are coming, when maybe there's an Amber Alert, someone has done some bad running off with someone. It all works if the phone works. And that's all we're trying to do. All we're
trying to do here is provide adequate essential phone service to that area and access to 911, first responders, fire, police, EMS. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, it's it's true. We all we all want cell phones. We get
frustrated when we don't have coverage and then you run into this and there's a uh um a challenge with with a group of of neighbors. Um Troy K to the applicant that was just gentleman that was just
speaking. Is there documentation that people have tried to call 911 and it hasn't gone through? do not have exact data. Yeah. That area, but again, um the volume the average across the country on 911 calls to most
consolidated dispatch about 85% from wireless phones. Yeah. But my question was, was there any documentation that in this area that is not a dead zone by your own words where someone tried to call 911 and couldn't get through?
Do not have that documentation because we don't have the coverage in the area. So, one of my biggest pet peeves sitting up here is having anybody fearmonger. And I felt like, honestly, I got to tell you, I felt like that's what you did. I felt like um you know you threw that in
there at the end and I enjoyed your presentation until that point. I didn't I didn't care for that because I felt like you're trying to pull our heartstrings about when you need 911 you got to grab your phone on your hip and get them there. Well, if you had documentation that there was a problem,
you would have had way more support from me. But I I I felt like that was disingenuous. I don't need a response. Thank you. I apologize, sir. Okay. I don't I don't see any more uh questions. I think we've heard from the uh the residents that and I know almost
every email I've got says we have uh we have fine cell phone service. We just don't have Verizon. Um so um Mr. Chairman, no more question. Yes, David Santiago. Just no questions. Questions for close.
Um I I and I and I respect everybody's data that they use for for the decision- making but you know I I the not Verizon or that stuff like that that's Verizon is what either number one or the number two carrier in the nation right and if
Verizon is telling us that they have a deficiency in the area we have a half a million residents in Valuchia County. I don't know what percentage of the car of the business they have, right? But if Horizon's telling us if they have 50%,
let's just say 30%, that's a lot of people, not all of them are going to drive by this segment, right? I get that. But it's still a big segment of our population that is clearly a customer to this provider. If they're telling us that they have a deficiency
in the area, why? Who am I to question that they have a deficient? They want to spend money. I don't know what a tower is going to cost, but it's got to be at least a million dollars. They want to spend a million dollars to improve coverage for people in Valuia. Can you believe that we're having this
discussion? I get the safety part. I really do. And the safety part has to be addressed and it has to be done to the standards that are required. I wouldn't expect anything different. I understand the neighbors concerns, but we have to weigh that an investment in this
community to serve more people in Valuchia. if it done safely, which I would expect that is a no-brainer for me and and not to be desensitized. Verizon's one of the either the number one or number two carrier in the area.
Let's help our constituents and improve coverage because they're saying they need it. It's not like they're asking money from us. They're asking for any nothing other than the need of the type of tower and the setback which our procedures and I'll finish with this mater. procedures and our ordinance
allow them to ask us for this. So, they're only doing what our procedures say. I get it. I'm not a heartstrings guy, and that pisses me off sometimes, too. I use those strong words because I listen for that. Um, and Troy, and I know you're you're like that, too. You don't try to fool me. It's really what it says. Um, and I picked up on that.
Um, but I I I stepped back and say, you know what, they're saying that our people need this. So, that that's what convinces me. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Um the I I would agree with you 100%. Let's
build a cell phone tower. Uh let's let them invest in the area. But the the question is we were told there's not service there. There is service there. There's not Verizon service there. So we're we're we're being asked to change the law procedure. You're a procedure
guy. The law says 1,000 ft. We're being asked to change that to 780 to change the law for this so that Verizon can have service. There is cell service there. There's no doubt about that. So, it's a special special exception. And if
it was within um the thousand ft, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But we're changing the law on these people that are depending on us to protect them. I I Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I think your description of that may be inaccurate. And I with all due respect, I don't think we're being asked to
change the law. I think this is following the the essence of our law, what they're following. Um secondly, let's let them tell us right now what is the situation of coverage in that area. Right. And again, Joey Posey, 420 South Nova, and we were just discussing this.
We literally had a conversation with T-Mobile yesterday about this same exact issue. It isn't just a Verizon issue. I I can't speak to whether there's limited to bad coverage of other carriers. I imagine that's the case and can you get a call out? I have no doubt under certain circumstances you can. The
question is is whether or not we can provide and fill a gap to make sure that all residents have the coverage they expect that in the event of emergencies that it's consistent in the event that you go along 95 and you're trying to reach whoever you're trying to reach
that the the coverage is there. So from Verizon's perspective there's a deficiency. From T-Mobile's perspective there's a deficiency. I can't necessarily speak to other carriers. Uh but I imagine that it's going to be the same situation and again you can do this
in other ways too with satellite or you know I there's other ways to finagle this to to achieve coverage but whether that achieves public coverage no that can't possibly be the case and and like Councilman Santiago had mentioned that you know there you have somebody that's
willing to invest move into this area to identify and capture that need. The question we're asking is regard regarding the special exception is is the waiver of the 250 ft allow is that something that we're willing to allow as
an as to make this happen which in every circumstance that I've been able to identify in your staff report I believe it was 14 is that correct waivers 14 13 waivers that have been granted for this specific purpose with far more
impacts far more residents far closer Uh, and really what we're asking for is the accommodation for the one dwelling to allow that waiver on coverage when we went above and beyond and also explored the alternatives to try to address
concerns as we saw them because if there was an alternative, we're happy to do it. But the alternative, the one viable alternative requires wetland impacts. it requires other impervious coverages that would would be a a bigger environmental
concern I would imagine for where that tower would be. So I I just want to make sure those things are out there and you know they were part of my presentation but um you know but I do I do understand the nature of where where they're coming from too because it is a change.
Okay. Thank you uh Councilman Kent. Thank you. And Mr. Santiago, again, you you bring a ton of um good points to to this topic. The thing I'm wrestling with, because I'm I'm beyond feeling like I got fear-mongered. I'm beyond
that even though I'm still talking about it. Um my thing is is that they're before us because it's a special exception. Um, and I got to tell you gentlemen, I love that we're spending the amount of time that we are on it because we want to get
this right. We want to get it right for the cell phone company. We want to get it right for the residents who took time out of their day two different times now to come before us and express their concern. Um, if they were they wouldn't be before us if
they were following all of the rules. It wouldn't even have to come before us. There would be no special exception. It'd be a staff level check off. Here we go. We're good to go because you're where you're supposed to be. So, we have to weigh in on this and and I'm I'm not 100% there. Uh, David, Mr. Santiago, I'm
not 100% there. I see your name up. You might be able to help get me there. Um, I'm I'm just not It also weighs on me that I believe this is in Mr. Robbins district and he's got some hesitation with it. And you know, who knows Mr. Robbins district better than Mr.
Robbins? I don't know. So anyway, Councilman Santiago, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, you know what just struck me a few minutes ago from the commentary that the the gentleman made a minute ago was he the 13 number
that you shared and Troy was important to there's precedent for this already and I think I heard that of the last 13 it's all the Can you clarify that? I don't want to miss I was I was going to clarify that. I didn't want to interrupt anyone. So, it
was we've had 13 towers since 2010 and eight of them required waiverss to residential homes. Um, how many since this elected body has been together? Um, I can get to that in just a second. Probably zero. That's fair. I'll answer that question.
Oh, one. Oh, sorry. One, two, three. Do you mean with a waiver or how many towers in general? You guys been here since I think with a waiver. 2020. Three. Not 2020.
Three. 2023. We've had one, two, three towers and one waiver and it was at 540 ft. Give me the date and time.
April 2nd, 2024. Yeah. Priy. It was a 255 ft self-supported community. Did I vote yes for that or was I absent that day? I think you made the motion. And I I did not helping. I I did want to clarify Carissa and I
apologize if you can go to page 89. Yes, 89. 89. There there is an an all coverage map. It's very difficult to see. At least I had a hard time seeing it.
I'll close that. Done. Oh, no, I'm not done. Okay. I don't know if you want to show us something related to that question. Yeah. Oh, from my presentation. If you can I don't know if you can zoom in to the uh two on the lower right with the green
and the red or I can just circle it. Um find a good color here. So this is where the new service is going to be. So you see all of this red here that is the gap. So the green represents the deficiency
area. The red represents the deficiency. Oh, now the uh power. Oh, okay. I'm looking at Oh, so the green represents the improvement if this tower is built. Yeah, the one that kind of looks like
three circles right on top of each other and red represents not reliable service. Okay. It means you can connect but it may not be the best connection. You can drop your internet connection might be slow. All of those things possibly, right? Um to Verizon. If you're in a you're in a tree stand
waiting for the deer, your cell phone might work if you need help possibly. That's a that's a Danny Robbins joke. Sorry. Um what I was saying, Mr. Chair, I'll close out with this. Um I the reason I said I didn't know we had one, but there's precedence there, right? And and I think that's why the attorney
being a good attorney um pointed that out to us that there's a practice that the council and you know yes we may be a new counsel but what what the government does follows us right I mean yeah we can do different things right but we we we're held accountable accordingly um
and I I I'll just leave this is it's going to be done safe and they want to invest in our community and give better service that's that that carries a lot away from me No testimony has been given to me to say we shouldn't do this to
improve service because X. There's nothing that carries that level. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Right. Except for the neighbors. And that that's what I was going to say that we the presidents we we can't just look at, well, there was eight of them improved. There's
another one coming next on our agenda today and it's probably going to pass because nobody's opposing it. It doesn't it's not adverse. It's shorter, too, but it's not adversely affecting um the neighborhood. And and that's what I'm looking at is does this fit into that
neighborhood? Um and I I don't I don't believe it does. But so that's one vote. Um Jake Johansson, sir, I um I'm inclined to uh approve this based on uh the the comparative
table that was provided earlier as well. I I said this the last time it came to us that I think the county needs to take a good look at our our existing u rule or existing ordinance and and adjust it to
reflect the the engineering of how these things fall. Um uh the the cities and the in the county are all over the place. Some some are are way far away because they don't want them and some are don't worry about it. Uh so
depending on where where we are or where they are, uh they'd be building without a without a variance at all or without a special exception. So, um, uh, if if 95% of 85% of the of the county right now
would allow this, I'm willing to to to take the blame and assume that risk and and allow it here with the understand that the that changes is available or coming. Thank you.
I don't see anybody else. Okay. Uh, Chissa, would you call the role? The motion on the table is to approve the special exception. Uh, that motion was by Davis Santiago, second by Jake Johansson. Mr. Johansson, yes.
Mr. Kent, yes. Mr. Reinhardt, yes. Mr. Robbins, no. Mr. Santiago, yes. Mr. Dimy, no. Mr. Brower, no. Uh but the uh
the motion is uh passed with the yes votes. So uh thank you all. Hey sir, sorry. Can you just indulge me for a minute? A bit of housekeeping back on item four. It's my fault. I apologize. But if I could get a motion
to actually adopt the resolution that established the charter. I know you already had the nomination. Motion to adopt. Second. Joe Hansen. You need another vote. No, sir. Not on your nominations. On the actual resolution, the motion. Oh, so that actually establishes the charter.
Kind of a good one. In reverse. Okay. Commission. Sorry. Item six is a special exception for 127. We need a vote. Do we need a vote? Thought we just voted. We have a motion and a motion and a second. I just asked him,
"Do we need to vote?" Yes. And Yes, sir. I apologize. I thought you said no. No, sir. I apologize. Yes, sir. All right. All in favor? Yeah. Does everybody know what we're voting on? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed?
Now, we can go to item six at 252, a special exception for 127 foot tall communication tower at North Creek Road, Orm Beach. All right. Thank you very much. Michigan. Carol McFarland, Planning and Development Services Director, and this
is a quasi judicial hearing. So, if any of you have had exparte communication, please disclose it. This is at Timber Creek um in just outside of the Orman Beach area. It's right adjacent to it. Um this is also in
an agricultural area. It's 10.9 acre parcel there. For this one, there are two homes that are within 1,000 ft of the proper of the proposed tower site. And in this case, one the closest home
is 505 ft and is owned by uh the property owner who is who is part of an applicant on this case. And the other home is to the south of it at 833 feet away. and that is uh family of the
applicant. So uh we have not gotten any public opposition to this. Um so this is the site plan. It's a little difficult to see on the screen. Again, we've got um the 127 foot tall tower and we have
three additional antenni for future carriers. This one has a crumple point and a fall radius of 60 ft. The tower is that circle on the site plan that's at the upper leftand corner. So it's on the
um the northwest part of the property. The planning and land development regulation commission heard this item on May 15th, 2025. There was no public participation and the PLDRC voted unanimously to forward to county council
with the recommendation of approval subject to the waiver to the setbacks. Move to approve. Second Joe Hansen. Okay. Motion to approve by Davis Santiago. Second was by Jake Johansson. Uh questions for staff.
Any other comments? All in favor say I. Any opposed? And this tower is approved 7 to zero. Uh item seven is also a quasi judicial uh hearing. It's a special exception for
recreational area on prime agriculture uh on Marsh Road to approve. Second. Before we go any further, we have a motion to approve by Danny Robbins. Second was by David Santiago.
And uh is there any exparte to declare? Nope. Okay. All right. Thank you. Special exception for a recreational area. We're on Marsh Road. Again, we have large lot agricultural area. This is a 10.5 acre
parcel. It has the uh split zoning prime agriculture A1 and the RCA that you see in the kind of brighter green is environmentally sensitive lands. They are not proposing putting any part of the recreational area in those
environmentally sensitive lands. What you can see on the site plan is that the use is really pushed down to the southern side of the property. There is a um above ground pool with a wood ramp that um for the dog diving. The dogs get
up on the ramp and they catch some air and jump as far as they can into the dog diving pool. This is um the result of a code enforcement case. Um there were some events that were
happening on the weekends, dog diving competitions. Um there were complaints of noise violations, loudspeakers, food trucks, RVs hanging out. Um so it was a code enforcement case. The applicant has
since um gone to planning commission on March 20th that was continued because there was five neighbors in opposition. So they postponed the PLDRC action to give them time to have a neighborhood
meeting. So the neighborhood meeting was on April 1st, 2025 and the results of that meeting was to reduce the number of annual events at five to reduce it from 9 to 5 and to delay the start of registration and the start of events on
the weekends. Um they also talked about increasing the landscaping on the south and the east side of the property. Uh the last motion, the last waiver here is that the special exception should be heard again in one year to give the use
time to happen and for the neighbors to um get on board or um to have another decision made. So the third PLDRC meeting was May 15th, 2025. The commission voted unanimously to approve
subject to 16 conditions outlined by staff and they added two additions for additional landscaping and for the one-year review period. There was public opposition. Three comments were in support and three neighbors were in opposition. We do have the applicant
here. With that staff recommends uh approval with the 18 conditions. Um, it looks like they've brought most of the neighbors on board with their plan. Um, and they do have a a pretty detailed presentation made as well. With that,
I'll take questions. Any questions for staff? No. Uh, okay. Uh, Danny Robbins for comment or Oh, I just had a comment on that. Uh Matt Reinhardt,
my dog was going to go ahead and challenge Bad Boy Dudley and um he's opted out. He's he's heard a lot of rumors about Bad Boy. Bad Boy Dudley doesn't play fair. So I just want to let you know formally Troy, he has backed out. So I'm sorry. I I appreciate hearing that. And Dudley's fresh off a surgery, so he'll
appreciate it as well. Are they going to do anything to prevent alligators from going? We have one member of the public who would like to speak. Uh, Lenia Hagstrom Ford, are you here? Who just brought me this?
Somebody else. She's no longer here. Okay. Um, we have a motion to approve. Uh, I haven't talked to the owners there, but I've heard from a lot of the neighbors and they can't figure out why we would
oppose this. So um if there's no discussion all in favor I say I I any opposed and the uh
dog diving pool is approved seven to zero. Item eight. Um, yes, the applicant wanted to uh make a clarification that uh the one-on-one training that's
described in the agenda item that there may be some overlap of more than just one dog on the facility if a family has two dogs or if one person gets in a little bit earlier. Um, there may be multiple dogs on the site very limited
during their one-on-one training. Are you asking to modify the document that council's approving? I Okay, he's nodding his head. So, so the the condition is that one-on-one
dog training is h happens on the week days um between I believe it's 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. The way that the uh condition is worded just says that it allows one-on-one training. It does not
actually mention how many dogs would be in that training. The limit to the number of dogs is for the events it limits it to 30 dogs opinion that's not something dog to instructor ratio not number of animals
on okay so that's the modification we need to revote on it because it's a it's it's different I don't see a I don't have a issue with that um David Santiago oh were you up for this I was up for the next item sorry okay uh the the motion was made by Danny
Robbins you good with it. Second was by uh David Santiago. Yes, it was. You're still good. Yeah. All in favor say I. I the revision. Any opposed? And it passes again. 7.
Right. We just wanted that on the record for the applicants. Okay. Benefit. Thank you. Let us know when it happens. Okay. That takes us to item eight, a modification of approved special exception for a saw mill. Mr. Chairman, down the street for me.
Point of order. Yes. Point of order. Uh, I move that we extend our meeting. We've met our limit, I believe, right? Oh, 3:45 is what it is. Very good. Okay. Continue, Mr. Hold that. Hold that motion. I have another motion
when you're done. Okay. No, I'm I'm done. We're on item eight. Did you want to address this? Move to approve. David Santiago, second by Danny Robbins. I I get you.
All right. Um item eight is a spe a modification to a previously approved special exception for a sawmill to allow pallet assembly. Uh this is on State Road 40 in Delion Springs, just a little bit west of its intersection with Lake
Winona Road. It's um in a very not a lot of homes out there, very large lots. It's right next to the Heart Island Conservation Area and the Valuchia Valuchia Speedway is just on the other side of State Road 40. Um zoned A1 Prime
Agriculture and Sawmill is a special exception within that zoning classification. Um again, this received approval in 2023 for an 11,900 ft pole barn. The site plan that you see on the screen is for phase two um which is
roughly 57,000 square feet of buildings, offices, etc. Um so the original business plan for this was that they bring timber onto the site, they saw it down and then they transport it to another one of their facilities that
allow that does pa pallet manufacturing. So after going through the design on this process, they applicants decided to change their plan so that they are manufacturing the pallets on site, save a little bit of time and gas money for
themselves. So this is just a modification to the previous approval to allow them to do that. There was no public participation at the PLDRC hearing. Again, there's really not a lot of neighbors out there. Um, so staff
recommended approval and the PLLDRC also voted uh unanimously to recommend approval for the county council. Thank you. Any questions for staff? Is there any exparte to declare this is a quasi judicial hearing? None for me as
well. Um, any other comments? All in the the motion is to approve. Uh, all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And the salt bill goes in seven to zero. Item nine um
goes with item 10, which is quasi judicial. Were you going to try and do both together? Uh yes. I I will run through the presentations for both cases. Um because you can't vote for one without voting for the other. So, um, but the votes
themselves will need to be separate. Well, let me go ahead and ask for exparte now since, um, we're going to be mingling them. Uh, I know I've talked to their attorney, um, and the, uh, the developer.
Mine was very brief at the attorney. Same. I've had communications with Mr. Woods as well. Okay. Was Mike Woods. Okay. Yes. So this um the first item item nine is smallcale comprehensive plan
amendment from the rural future land use designation to an urban low inensity designation um on Grand Avenue. This is the northwest corner of uh State Road 44 and Grand Avenue. There is the
lighter yellow that you see is the um Valuchia Land and Timber planned unit development that got approval um earlier this year I believe. And so this application is to take two more parcels, the two parcels that are um boxed in
black on your screen and adding those to the existing plan unit development. So this isn't about the whole plan unit development that's already been approved. This is about adding two parcels to that plan unit development. So if we're looking just at the future
land use, we're going from a density of one unit per 1 acre to urban low, which is 0.2 to four dwelling units per acre. It's a maximum potential yield increase of 76 dwelling units. Um, however, I
will say that the next item is for the plan unit development is only adding 48 units. So, PLDRC heard the future land use and PL and plan unit development on June 19th and they recommended unanimous approval
and go on to item 10. Did you have a question on this part, Danny? Uh, yes, sir. Okay. Can you Carol, do we have a um a view of this uh like maybe on Google Maps, but but zoom
it out a little bit? Yes. I just want to get a better idea. Sorry about that. Just see what's surrounding it. Yeah. And yeah, we we get that information to Chris ahead of time, so it'll just take her a second to load it up. And is this uh consistent with like future land use uh uh the uh utility
boundary? Yes. Uh and all that stuff? Yes, city of Dan is providing the utilities and it's consistent with the comp plan in that and all those other Yes. I mean, this is a change to the
future land use map to add more urban area to that uh area, but it's it's consistent. It's immediately adjacent to it and we have the capacity and our utilities and other infrastructure to allow for it. Are we able to zoom out just a little bit more?
Okay. Are you looking for the train station? Yeah. So, the train station's going to be out a little bit more. I don't think I can do it on this screen. And you want to drag it up a little bit. There you go. So, I think the train station is
Yep. There you go. Okay. I'm trying to figure out how to draw on it. It's a little little dicey. Carol, this is this also within that that overlay. Is there an overlay there for the Yes, there's the the transit oriented um
overlay. There's a in planning there's a kind of a walkability rule of one half a mile means that people will generally walk if they can. So, this uh development is just at half a mile away. So, and the applicant has a very nice
presentation put together about how the walkability of this project and the um building of the spring to spring trail for this missing gap area that this project is going to supply some good walkability features. Okay. Thank you.
They're also doing some low impact development as well. Thanks. Thank you. Okay. Yes. Go ahead. Question. Uh hold up a second. Did I hear the three magic letters? L I D. You did.
They were going to do that on this project. It is a voluntary um from the audience that was passed just a couple of months ago. Um Mike Woods was actually part of um he helped a lot get attention on the low impact development ordinance. So yes, there are going to be some
voluntary elements in this. So someone is using the voluntary option that we put forward. He does. And he does have a great presentation to talk about exactly what those are. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. to item 10 presentation. Thank you.
So the purple is the future or the plan unit developments. You can see again the two um parcels in lighter yellow are being added to it. the previously approved is um what was approved earlier and the proposed lands you can see what
they're doing is they are adding 19.15 acres uh 48 single family lots and the overall addition of 8.88 acres of open space. So they've been able to really have very efficient use of their storm
water in their conservation area so that they can um really be saving a lot of green space. You can see the spring to spring trail uh used to be on the previous uh uh plan go on a straight north south along Grand Avenue. Um and I
I hope you can see it on the presentation. You can see this trail does meander a little bit as it's going north along Grand Avenue and then it turns west and continues along the north side of the property. So there will be um some good improvements that will come
along with this development as well. And this actually decreases the overall density of the entire plan unit development from 3.08 to 2.9. Again, planning land development regulation commission heard this on June
19th along with a smallcale application amendment and voted unanimously for approval. Um, and we have Mike Woods and Sean Forier here as well. Are you going to present?
Um, yeah, I'm going to step out a minute. It's not because you're coming up. I can hear you in there. I am going to step out. Mr. Robbins, you recognize Oh, that's that's Matt's job.
Mr. Robbins, do you have a question? Yes. Um, Mr. Woods, uh, I I reviewed a lot of this stuff. Can you just clarify, too? Sure. You said that there was a net decrease once everything was put together in the number of units. Uh yep. So uh we from a land use perspective we
are increasing uh from the land use uh from from what it currently is to the ULI. So there is an overall increase there, but the overall density for our project because we're adding some units, but we're adding more open space and tree preservation area uh drops down and
the the ratio from from our calculation um still about the same fraction, but we have 48 additional lots spread out over the 19 acres. So where we were previously at was probably along 2.85 units per acre. We dropped down to about 2.74. Um and and really the the point of
all of that is, you know, we we tried to do a really good project the first time we came through. We were able to get this additional acreage after this got approved and this is kind of taking a good project and just kind of giving it some elbow room to be able rather than coming in with higher more intensity of
residential units. Same size is contemplated 50 and 60 foot lots. But what we're able to do this goound because we we moved forward pretty far with this project and then the LI standard discussion was underway. So we kind of paused it, worked within for
that adoption. Um what you're going to see from this project is the benefit of desiloing the tree preservation, the open space, and being able to utilize those areas kind of in conjunction to activate the tree preservation area, to activate the storm water ponds to have an overall
better project. So, what what led practices are you uh going to be implement? I can uh have Sean come up here on that. Um some of it is word word for word from the um the guide book. Some of it we deviate from it, but we're not we were
still going to follow through the guidelines when we go to site plan for the Thank you. Absolutely. And um I can we're really proud of this project, but I'm going to try to go through quicker than normal for some of my presentations. It's been a long uh hearing. If you have any
specific questions, you need me to to dive down in and pause, I'm happy to do that. Um, just use John Nichols as your guide. If you see him dozing off, that means you've gone too long. Absolutely. Um, so the benefit what what I want to walk you through is a
distinction between what is effectively phase two and phase one and what you deal with with any PD project. Then I want to kind of focus on the amenities. One of our biggest amenities, the first go through was the bike trail. We're still providing that. we've made that better. Then we have Sean here to talk
through the LI standards, how we're applying it. And we also have a proof of concept that we can show to you from a project that this developer and this engineer has done in the city of Dand. It's Trinity Gardens. And you can see kind of what LI looks like in practice.
All right. Where am I pointing this towards just to hear? Okay. Oh, this is the one I need. All right. or not. Time's a clicking. It's the white there.
Did I get it there? Okay. So, the distinction here, uh, if make sure you can hear me. 19 acres, 48 additional lots. The size change isn't changing. Our site dedicated tree preservation is increased and our site to TPA area and open space has increased as well. You've
seen the aerial photo. The main point I want to just emphasize to you on this is if you look on the western side of our property under that orange kind of area, those are all the planted pine trees. The area that we're really focusing and preserving, you can kind of see that wet area. Um, and I'll show you in the
topography here in just a second. Um, that's the historic kind of growth that we're trying to preserve, put the trails through there and activate. This is the concept plan that you originally approved. Uh, about 18 months ago, I think was probably how we were walking through it. Again, we've been working on this on and off. on, you know, for about
two two and a half years. Really happy with it. And what you've got now is, if you can kind of see where that triangle on the top left corner, you can see where that shape picks up and you can see the additional area. And what it's really allowed us to do is stretch that are already our northeast quadrant is going to be tree preservation, open
space, and and natural area. Really been able to stretch that over. Um, historic photos, topography, and Sean may get into this a little bit more. You can kind of see with the addition of Burl's property on the north at 20 acres, you can see the low points that we were already contemplating utilizing and we
could engineer to encapsulate and keep that on our property, but we're able to have a little bit more flexibility uh now with Burl's property to be able to bring that whole northeast quadrant into a a managed storm water system. Uh 19 acres, that's the density, more
elbow room to expand natural storm water. And and again, we think this will function as a proof of concept for LI. I have every time I've presented LI to any jurisdiction. It's good. It's expensive. It's harder to do. It doesn't work at every location, but on this one, it
works very well. Uh the one that we had in the delay site works very well as well, but it's not a panacea. It can't solve everything for all all time. But when you can do it, it can be a win-win for the developer and for the uh for the community and for the um residents.
Um the land use uh questions. We did walk through this when we were talking through the first phase approval. Nothing's really changed there. It's our proximity to the Sun Rail station. I've got some maps that will show you to that. We are not within the overlay the district that to that stops at 44. Uh
but that 40 that overlay didn't utilize the full density that was provided for under that overlay. And with our utilization being as low as it is under the ULI, we think we're we're well within the scope, particularly since we're connected with the trail system. Um, as previously permitted, you can see
here, and I'll go through some of the amenities very briefly. Um, let me swipe over here. So, this is this is the stuff that you got to look for for all of your development agreements before you get into the real LI, right? But some of these elements are part of
the LI based on how we activate them. uh of the unique stuff. The gu the hammock garden is just a a hanging garden area for you to set up a hammock for an outdoor activation. We're really leaning into that outdoor utilization of the property as the selling point for the project. Um multimodal trails, both uh
pvious and impervious throughout the property. Uh where there is green space at ends of curbs, either rain gardens um or or uh bioailes. We'll show some examples of that. Obviously, our big selling point is the bicycle trail still. It's a missing gap in the
county's uh rail trail system. Uh but we've enhanced with gazeos, picnic tables, dog parks still going to be there. Uh we do have language in there for the decorative water fountain with any wet storm water pond as well. Um this is what I kind of call the soft enhancements. Uh this is, you know,
larger wetland buffers. This is taken from the from the um LI guide books. is the guidance for how do you make it functionally better in addition to just aesthetically better. Um so additional 5% for tree preservation. We're well beyond that. Uh smart irrigation
controls, education signage. We've got language in there for native plantings. Uh not so far as prohibiting or requiring all native everywhere because grasses are still kind of a point of contention, but where there's public common areas for the HOA to control, that's definitely in there in place. Um,
and then this all gets implemented and verified at ODP. Uh, how it looks. The other things I kind of want to draw your attention to, um, along the northern boundary, uh, that's, uh, south of a power line easement, but then the trail will run along that north or east west on our
northern side. We'll talk a little bit about that in a second. If you look kind of in the middle of the two major blocks on the west side of the property, we've got these green corridors. We're trying to do something a little bit different there with either flowering or fruing trees being put into place there. No real provision in your development code,
but we think it's something different and new to give a shot and give a try to. It's obviously buffered uh along the edges with tree preservation area where it meets those requirements. Um and a lot of um green space. Obviously, we've loaded the development over onto the west side because of the contours of
topography in the wetland area on the east side. Um, just to give you kind of an example. I'll show you in real life a real time uh examples uh with the uh slides at the end. This is one of the more traditional ponds, but it's still going to have a
bio swell around it activated with a trail. This will be at the entrance coming off of 44. Um behind uh most of the homes is either a bioail or a rain garden area. uh trees along the the roadway trail uh throughout
uh traditional hot lot although we're really trying to make it more of an active outdoor area. Uh this is again the bio swailes at the ends of like the curbs and and the uh the blocks where the roadways are. And then this is the idea of that kind of meandering pedestrian area to kind of break up the
blocks. You still have sidewalks on both sides of the roadway but to kind of punch through. Um and then obviously we got a dog trail or dog park in the central area of the property and then the the hammock. So the multimodal trail we're providing a
bicycle station for our residents open to the general public uh with shade so kids you know if you're out on your bike you're not going to die of heat. We're going to have a water fountain out there and a repair station. This is the idea of the network of whether it's sidewalk trails or mulch to get through the property. The big red line on the right
hand side is the main alignment for the bike trail on Grand. You see that blue line there that meanders into our property. We've worded it to allow for staff to kind of make the final alignment subject to avoidance of hitting any big trees in there. Ideally, we think it's going to be better to meander through there, but we're giving
the staff flexibility with that. Um, we've seen that with the trail features. Uh, just from a gap perspective and see how this kind of lines up. This is the project that Rick Wolfhart got approved on the south side of 44 under construction right now with Grand Avenue with the trail connecting to it. Uh we
pick that up and carry it through. And then that's just a frame of reference. The benefit and we talked a little bit about this the first go around. These are the 26 homes along the east side of Grand Avenue and then along the north side of Minnesota. By putting the trail into our property and cutting to the
left, you avoid impact of all these homes, particularly on Minnesota Avenue because those lots one through seven, that roadway is prescriptive. There is no additional rideway. So, it would be some type of taking if you wanted to bring the trail down that way. Instead, we bring it through here along the roadway. It meanders into our property.
That's not shown here. We just wanted to show the distance along the power line easement. There's a gap of 0.19 miles at Mart Marietta. And then you go to the north in that orange area. same developer under contract to to build the bike path there. Walkability to give you frame of reference. We're trying to make
sure that everyone can get to the property within five minutes. Uh traffic, I'm happy to hit on that, but it's all the conversations we had initially with uh Mr. Dempsey at the first uh conversation. The additional units don't change that analysis. We're still in work with DOT. The access and
safety access along 44, we had talked about Viewport, all still the same and still in good good conditions. Um, I guess we can bring Sean if you can come just kind of briefly kind of walk them through the LI and then we'll show you kind of what the pictures look
unless you think pictures first. No. Okay. Can can you go back to the slide with the uh the LAR that one? There you go. Hello Sean Forier with KCG Engineering. Um, I'm going to give a brief but hopefully thorough overview of the drainage of the system. Um, I wanted to
start on this slide our slide because it gives you the big picture. One of those microphones closer to your mouth. Yep. Is that better? So the county lighter is good for giving a big picture of what's going on in the existing condition. So on the west west end side of our property flows to the
west and you can see the contours fall off in that direction. There's a small industrial facility up on the southern end of our western boundary and then you have the existing railroad tracks, a few culverts under the tracks and then west of that's more in developed land and ultimately the St. John's River. So we're not too far from the St. John's
River here on the north um north of the green line is the existing landfill which slopes inward towards themselves. They have swailes and most of their property would discharge if it does to the west so they don't come onto our property. Uh to the south you have state road 44. Uh south of that is the Pelum
Square project which there is in the existing condition a portion of their basin that goes through a culvert onto our property which we're accounting for which I'll talk about more in a second. And then on the east side of our property, which is where we spent most of our attention, you have on the southeast you have the Circle K, but
east is Grand Avenue and east of that are some existing homes which mostly flow away from our property into some existing depressions which you can kind of see um up in the northeast corner flows to there and there's another depression just south of that. So essentially there's sort of a ridge line running down Grand Avenue. Um so I go
you got Okay. Yeah, that's a good one. Le um so Oh, actually go back real quick. So internal to our project, we there are a few depressions. You can see there's one towards the southwest side of the site and there's one on the northwest corner of the site which that
one it's not very deep and if it if during a more major storm event more than likely flows to the west. Um I say more than likely because there is infiltration during storms and these depressions do actually probably hold a lot of water during storm events. Um but that would flow towards St. John's
River, but the focus has really been that big central depression on the east side, which adding the north property um made a lot of things on my drainage couch work a lot better. So, and made us be able to do a lot more interesting interesting things, which I'll get to in
just a second. Um just to start out, um for our proposed design, we are going to meet the new code. I know that there was some talk about that earlier. We're we already got the extra borings per depressional area, per pond. Um, we're going to try to start our pending water measure district criteria. We're going
to start our seasonal high water tables higher than what's determined by the geotech. We're avoiding the empoundments, meaning we're not stacking water up on the perimeter. Those two ponds you saw are where there's natural depressions. Now, we're trying to dig those down deeper, not stack up water higher than the ground. And if there is
a point where the grading works out where there's a slight impoundment because we're blocking water in one spot, we're going to have the geotech do the clay cores. But the big thing is we are going to do the le ordinance or meet the the rules on that. Um he mentioned earlier that there's parts that we are
going to partially meet meaning we're still going to meet the the code which there's a certain number of elements we have to do but there's some elements because of the nature of and size of our project. We can't because you know one of them's like a 10acre minimum habit habitat um management area which
obviously you can't do that on a project this size. And um but we're trying to take little elements out of every single one of those LEDs almost and try to bake them into this project even if we can't fully meet it. But we're going to meet the L guidelines and the minimum number standards and then some. So um the
site's generally made up you can go to the next one. Um of a series of swailes um uh you know L swailes, rain gardens which he previously mentioned. The retention ponds are going to meet um the L standards which you know just pause on that for a minute. The retention ponds
you see here were designed and met. We designed them and um everything's been engineered on this project, but we haven't put the pencil down on this project. We keep working on it. So, you know, the ponds don't look exactly like this anymore. They've gotten better. So, for instance, the one north of that depression doesn't look like that
anymore. We've changed it to look more like a swale and tie more into existing contours and use that, you know, use what we have better instead of building a square pond. And then uh yeah, that's fine. Pause one second, Carissa.
Go ahead. Sorry. Um and then we're trying to use natural depression areas wherever we can because um there's value to that which I'll talk about in a minute, including the wetland that's in the big depression in the center east. Um a couple key points. Um you know, by using those natural depression areas, it does help
mimic the existing condition. We put our final pond locations wherever there was a natural depression or use a natural depression which water goes there now. So that's where we want to put water there in our proposed condition. Um you know pretty much all the water flows through some kind of pre-treatment L
system before it goes to one of those depressions. So the southwest pond you see there's a lot of little LED swailes that it feeds into before it goes into that pond. And we do have checks in place so that water's forced into those LED swailes before it ever gets to that pond. So there could be a lot of rain events that that pond never sees water.
It all goes into the LED swells first. Um the which as I stated before, you know, trying to spread the infiltration across the side is mimicking the existing condition better. Sean? Yes. Are you calling the uh le swailes bio swells? Is that interchangeable?
I'm using that interchangeably. Yes. Describe a bio swell so everybody understands in the public. It's there isn't a a a legal definition in the sense that you know you can't say everyone agrees in the terminology but to me a bioell or
leil is some kind of soil that's vegetated that provides some kind of nutrient uptake so that when the water goes into it it um you know it vegetation is one of the best ways to absorb the uh nitrogen phosphorus the main u things that do pollute our
waterways. So having those the ve so it's not just a dry pond that you line with sod you actually put vegetation in it. Um and then it's in my opinion it's something that you don't just do one and you're done. You do you spread them across the site so you're getting that pre-treat or that water soaking in the
ground all over your project as much as you can because we've found with some of our testing that when you put just a little bit of water on dry ground, it likes to go into the ground. So the more you can do that around your project, you're getting water into the ground rather than concentrating into your storm water pond. So to me, the term
bioell isn't just the biological component, it's also the uh um infiltration component, which I appreciate. So I don't know if that answers it well. And there's usually other components, too, like rocks and those sort of things that help disperse the energy. And yeah, it's more than
just a plain ugly pond. So, um, but even then, we're going to try to make our ponds not ugly in this project. So, um, you know, I mentioned we're trying to utilize natural depressions wherever we can because to me, that's a, you know, that's where the water's going there now. And anytime we can use one of these
holes that are already there, that's less um, scraping of the earth, we can keep the existing underbrush trees and those sort of things in place and just let the water flood what it's already flooding instead of clear cutting those areas. Um and again the north property substantially helped out on this as you
probably saw on those contours earlier. They went up into that north property and now we fully encompass that depression which um for us is big because now I can store the water where it's currently being stored um and again preserve more trees. I stated earlier
how that there was a pond that was being shown on your exhibits to the north of that pond, which I've essentially got rid of that pond and wrapped a big sweller following the natural ground better. So, I can fully use the natural depression now instead of clearing for a big pond right there. I'd rather use the
existing depression as a pond rather than um you know clearing and do a big oak retention pond. Um so again that north adding that north property has helped us preserve more trees substantially and also store more storm water above the code minimum. Um now
there is a wetland there. So anytime you are discharging to a wetland there are extra rules and I do have experience in that and I think it I believe it takes some experience in that. Um, as you'll see in some of these other slides, you know, this is one of the projects we did where we did the same thing where there
was a wetland that we were utilizing for the storm water, but there's some rules of that. So, the first, you know, you got to establish the hydro period for a wetland, and that's where you determine the seasonal low and seasonal high of that wetland so you don't overhydrate or underhydrate it. Um to do that we have
an environmental consultant go out and set pins where based on the soils and based on the um species of vegetation and other things he observes and then we have that surveyed and then we also model it and then we compare our model to those pins and if they're close that means our model is accurate which is
good because we want our model to be accurate. then we have to then do the proposed model and we need to stay within a certain range of that existing model because we don't want to again flood the wetland more than it's supposed to be or like I said dry it out. Um
and then lastly before you can use a wetland for storm water you have to treat the water first. So all the water going to these wetlands are 100% treated in a regular with one of those LED swailes or some kind of retention system before it goes into the wetland. So,
with all that, um, I got elevations for you because I figured that might be important. So, on Grand Avenue, the lowest point of the rideway that touches our property is around elevation 35. The crown's a little bit higher, 36 37, but we'll just stick with that 35. The
wetland that we're sending most of our water to after it goes to the L system is currently at elevation 20.2. We modeled that wetland um in the existing condition and to get the seasonal high basically and it came out to 22.5.
I mentioned earlier and again this is about you know 13 to 15 ft lower than grand. I mentioned earlier we set hydroperiod pins and those came out to 22.3. Again our model is 22.5. So that gave me confidence in our model. Our model is matching the hydroperiod pins.
We then did a proposed model with all of our L swailes. As it currently stands right now, the main annual storm in that wetland came up to 23.2 and that's a conservative number which I'll explain in a second. 23.2 is within 7/10 of the existing which is within the range and
in fact makes the wetland in many ways more functional because it's hydrated. And do I have permission to go just a few more minutes? Okay. Getting into the weeds. I'll tell you about my It is in the weeds. Yeah. But we don't need the weeds for this hearing. Yeah, I think we had enough. Well, I figured the elevations were
important because I know flooding is important in that spot. So, you lost John about 12 minutes ago. I wanted you to know that. I all to say to conclude and I'll sit sit down. Um, we've looked at this project for many years now. He's on on board making sure that any of your your
concerns are there. I won't show you all the pictures, but if you have a chance, go out to Beerisford, the new extension in MLK, and you can see what this looks like in in real life, so that a project comes in. You know, this shows your engineered wetlands, your natural wetlands, your building sites, your paths, pedestrians, and it all works
together, and it works out pretty well. So that when you move into a neighborhood, you're looking at this on day one. Uh we're really proud about this project. I know we got a little wonky on here, but it's it's all we've been talking about. I thought I was at a science fair. Yeah. Well, if you want to give me a
blue ribbon, that's fine. Um but but um yeah, we're just we're excited to to show that this can work for you. That was his short version. That's my short version, too. Happy to answer any questions you have or if there's any speakers to respond to. Um thank you for giving us this opportunity. We're
excited for this project. Okay, questions. Jake Johansson. Okay, Matt, you have a question or comment? I did have a comment or a question. Thank you, chair. um for the engineer. Actually, I don't want to get you going again.
I I'll try to upset um and and correct me if I'm wrong because I heard you make a comment about the ponds. I think you you were talking about the ponds deeper. Was that is that accurate? No. To capture more water because I'd always heard digging deeper is not necessarily
No, no. I was saying we're digging the ponds lower than existing ground. That's why we pound water. when I heard the word deeper, I just thought, okay, I'd always heard differently. And then um also, and I do the other comment. Thank you very much.
Um the thought of the LI swailes capturing the majority of the water and the fact that you're consistent throughout the property with those um actually aesthetically it looks good, too. Um so I have to admit the pictures I know were
not of the project, but of of another project. So, I thought it's, you know, to to go along those lines, it looks good because anytime you have those, you know, plants and foliage and whatnot is going to do better than dirt or even grass. So, I commend you on that. So, but the other was a question. Thank you
for clarifying. Don, did you have questions? A question for I guess Mike. Um, Mike, I I know you commented on this, but um I just wanted to make sure that So, we are standing well with DOT as far as the left in Delturn lane and the right end
delturn lane for Yes, we we were in conversation with FDOT right after this got approved. We're working in conjunction to coordinate with all the work that's being done for south of Grand Avenue as well, right? Because they they've got some commercial projects there as well. But from a from a turnlane perspective,
we're in good place. nothing with what um the additional units do. That doesn't take our away our ability for that. In fact, it makes it higher demand, but very slightly. As you know, we've had another loss of the land, the skydive to land owner just because of that east west sunlight
coming through that area there, Shell Road. And I just that's really kind of important to me to make sure that we give Del 100%. And then um just a comment I I'll wait for comments for the rest you want to know. Okay. Uh, no. Let's let's wait. Keep
questions. Uh, Mike or either one of you, you're using a lot of LI principles. Which of the incentives are you claiming? Uh, mainly like density went down. Yeah. So, you know, I know that the LI standards really got kind of pushed as a
density enhancement. We're not really using that. It's more on the desiloing of the open space tree preservation area and activating that, you know, and that was the conversation we had at the adoption of the first time forward was that we didn't feel like there was a methodology even with the PD to get away
from that. That was what we jumped on to from the very get-go just to again you can kind of see it's very similar to the original project. It's just the enhancements and a lot of the stuff that we probably would have tried to do that first go around, we just physically couldn't because X number had to be open
space and only open space and it couldn't be storm water and you start losing up. So to me, that's the biggest benefit. Now, there will be other projects where that density bonus can come in handy. Um, but there's also kind of a flip of that. If you have any lots of a certain size,
you're not going to really yield much more density. Um, so anyway, but that's that's the main that's the main benefit. Thank you. I just was curious. Uh, David, did you have questions for them? Just comment. Uh, Danny Robbins, questions. Yes, Mr. Woods. I just want to make sure
there's no that we we can put things to bed ahead of time, you know, um, when it comes to we're not filling in or paving over any wetlands. We get accused on that. Every project doesn't matter what it is. Um, no, we basically are building
around them to kind of incorporate them to do their jobs. And I think the best picture that we've got is kind of showing, again, this is that Trinity Gardens site, but if you come off of of um MLK, you can see an engineered pond that's kind of like the reverse D.
There's a smaller pond that's engineered, then it gets into the wetlands. And so it stages in and all of that works in conjunction. He's designing it to the standards that the state requires for a volume standpoint, but it overall works into a a a feasible
practical element in it. I'm just diffusing the the bomb before it goes off. Sure. Yeah, this is this is very sensitive to the wetland preservations. Thank you. Y uh Jake Johansson, you have questions?
No, sir. So, waiting for a comment. Okay. Uh, I didn't have a comment, but I'll make one based on the the bomb comment there. I I know you I've we've met numerous times. Um, I think you're a really good
engineer. I know you care about what you're doing. So, there was there was no bomb coming because you you actually got it and you went out and designed a a project. I think you have been chomping at the bit to do an LI product project
for as long as I've known you. Um, so um, it was interesting that most of the incentives you you didn't you didn't need. You already reduced the the density. The the one question that I've always had and you answered was can we use um
retention areas or bioails to qualify as the open area? I I think you should be able to and uh that's interesting that that was your biggest uh and to clarify I I think the strength on the L is for the projects that have already been kind of approved as a straight zoning, right? Because we were
already PD and we were contemplating putting this in. So we had kind of laid the foundation very early on. What's going to be really fantastic is if you have it a project approved under straight zoning that then wants to apply it. I think then you'll be able to have a product that you wouldn't otherwise be able to compel enhanced improvements.
You're going to be able to do that with the LI standards. Okay. Thank you. All right. To continue with uh with comments, David Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And you know, I appreciate Danny bringing up that point and and I think you know, I know you used the word bomb. I don't think it was a bomb from you, Mr. Chair. At least
from my perspective. I think it's the the commentary that happens out there in that fake world called social media. Um, and because you know, we we we could approve a project in the Sahara Desert and we'd still be accused of filling in wetlands. Um, so the clarity is
certainly very important to put out there in today's environment, especially coming into political season. That being said, two things happened for me here today. I you sold me when uh you mentioned LI and you went into voluntarily. I want to thank you and your your client, right? There were
those that felt that no one would ever take up this option and you didn't even take benefit from the density bonus even though it's out there. A lot people said that they would just want the density bonus. So, thanks for asking that question, Mr. Chair, because I didn't know that. Um, and secondly, uh, what sold me on the project is the location.
We have invested millions of dollars in that sunrail right down the road and it's right in that same geographical area and we got to do what we can we've said in this area to support that sunrail because otherwise it's that continued white elephant that's going to cost Valuchia County residents money. So
we have to make it viable. So those two things si thank you very much. I appreciate the science lesson too. Councilman Johansson. Yes sir. I I would like to echo that. Thank you very much for for doing the voluntary. I know you started this
process when you knew what our uh requirement our new requirements are preb but but but thank you for continuing with the uh post SB80 uh and saying we're going to do that anyhow. core
samples increase capacity in the uh in the retention and uh you know I I hope I hope other developers and and um uh representatives that have clients that are developers uh if there's anybody in
the back of the room listening that uh um uh L is a beautiful thing when you can make it work and you made it work and it doesn't sound like it cost you an arm and a leg and and um I appreciate that a Uh that that goes a long way
for me in the future too. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Point of order. What's your point? I'd like to extend the meeting to no later than 5:30. Second. I'd also like to add add to that, David.
Sure. The next agenda item, I'd like to bump up number 16, Mighty River recovery presentation. Okay. So that you uh the motion is to uh push the meeting to 4
5:30. Okay. Uh yes, Mr. Chairman. Um to move uh number 16 16 up chair the next the next agenda item. Okay. All right.
I I I'll support that second edition. Um, and I asked my colleagues to be brief for the rest of the items so we can get through all of them because you could start. Be brief. I'm ready to vote on this one. I'll call the question. Let's do it. Well, all in all in favor of extending
the meeting and moving 16 to next, please say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Um, who was Jake? Are we still on you? I'm done. Okay. Uh, I'm I was done. You answered all my
questions. We do have one member of the public who would like to uh speak and this uh this will be interesting. Um Dr. Wendy Anderson from Stson University. Wendy Anderson. I'm in I'm into land and uh no bombs. In the five years that I've
been standing at podiums um across this county and the cities and the and the county, there have been three times that I have enthusiastically supported a project. Today is the third. And every single one of those projects has been designed by Sean Forier. Yeah, he is the most amazing engineer. I wish
he could engineer every single project. And I wish he could explain every single one um to the elected bodies that are reviewing them because it might have gotten a little wonky for you guys, but I was just sitting over there going, "Yeah, yeah, that's what we've been trying to say." So, um you know, my only
sadness is that this is not mandatory. I'm just going to say it again. I know that SB 180, you know, that the only way L survives right now is because it's voluntary. So, okay. But these are such good practices and they really do in
fact manage storm water in really natural and effective ways. If we could do more, I'm going to turn around and look at staff right now. If we could do more to encourage our other developers to buy into this because it actually does save money and it is the right way
to do things, it would be really great. I'm really excited to hear about this project today and uh and I know you all are going to approve it because you know you approved most of them. But um but anyway, they've done a really good job on this one. So, thank you. I'll be brief.
Sean, your rates just went up. Okay. Uh, no other comments, no other questions. Um, let's uh let's vote the motion. Did somebody make a motion? Motion to approve. Motion to approve by David Santiago. Second by
Second. Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. The Wendy almost talked me out of it. Um, all in favor of item uh nine say I. I. I. Any opposed? And that carries
seven to zero. So we've got to go immediately to 10. Um move to approve. To approve by David Santiago, second by by Vice Chair Reinhardt again. Any questions? All in favor say I. I.
Any opposed? And nine and 10 are approved. Um good job, Michael. Good job, Sean. See you at the Orlando Science Center. Okay. Um, is your presenters here? Are
your presenters here? Yes. Okay. We're going to move to item 16, the mighty river recovery presentation. And does uh David Santiago have a time limit on it? When John Nichols signals to me, I'll keep an eye on him.
Just got to wake him up. Yeah, that's when the sign is up. Council, may I or uh chair, please? Uh council, thank you uh for for uh supporting this uh idea of getting uh Mr. Blog and the Mighty River Recovery
on our this agenda. You'll see here and uh not just this presentation, but if you follow him on social media, if you talk to a lot of the business on the west side, uh he is a worker. uh he he does exactly what he says he's going to do. Um and he puts his money where his
mouth is and he's a nononsense kind of guy when it comes to this stuff and and very uh passionate about it. So, I know uh these environmental uh issues, especially water quality uh regionally and and statewide is a a huge idea and
these guys, in my opinion, as you'll see, are knocking it out of the park. And uh I look forward to this presentation and seeing how we can help out uh Mighty River Recovery in Valuchia County. Thank you. Danny, quick question. Is there going to be an ask? Is there an ask along with this or is just a presentation?
I may make an ask. Okay. Cool. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for having me. I am Joe Bailog, the executive director of Mighty River Recovery. We really appreciate having us
in and and especially for moving us up. That's a big plus. We've had a lot of people here that have been here since the beginning of the meeting uh and are here to support us. Um, as Mr. Robbins has stated we are a relatively new 501c3
in the area that is working uh on uh the St. John's River. I'll just go ahead and if I make sure my clicker works. Um we are really a response to the continued decline in the St. John's River. And for those of you that aren't familiar with that, we have seen water quality
declines. And I'm sure most of you actually are familiar with it because you deal with things just like the last uh the last gentleman that was up here presenting about some some development and things and you talked about uh the the value of of uh how to how to treat water and storm water. Um so we've had a
lot of declines with the St. John's River for a number of years, for decades really, uh that have resulted in water quality declines, uh big declines in fish and wildlife habitat, uh and and uh an overall decline in users and interest in the river quite a bit. uh our group
established in 2024, you'll see there has has uh been fast growing uh and uh and we're we're already in the water doing projects right now uh to help restore uh habitat issues and to uh help help improve water quality. I see my
tickers ticking down. So, do I have just 10 minutes and then that's it? Pretty much. Okay, then I'm gonna move pretty quick. Uh a little bit there about uh some some fish and wildlife habitat issues. You know, I've got some slides and some some material in here. Uh the big thing with the St. John's River is
loss of vegetation. And if you haven't seen this reported yet, you most likely will. There's been over a 95% loss in in submerged vegetation throughout the river as a whole. Our group is working to help restore that. Uh and that's important both for for users, for fish
and wildlife, for fishing, but it's also very important to other species. You know, it's it's important to manatees, uh, eagles, woods. You see some species of special concern there that you all hear about, but it's important to know that right now, uh, no, none of that
vegetation has been restored. Uh, this is a little bit couple of, uh, scary facts. Again, kind of moving quick. Uh, the lowest catch rates, the lowest numbers, the lowest sampling data ever for game fish in the St. John's River in all our major water bodies have occurred
in the last 5 years. These are FWC numbers. These are not, you know, catch numbers from fishermen. These are catch numbers through sampling data with the state fishing game people. So, so there we have it. Uh water quality is also a major major issue in the St. John's
River and as you're seeing reported, it is not getting better. In fact, it is often getting worse. uh our our maximum daily loads are pointing to to problematic issues. And some of the some of the uh support there you see on the right talks about algae blooms. Algae
blooms, harmful algaal blooms are occurring more in the river now uh than ever. They're occurring earlier and uh they're really affecting how much people are able to go out and use the resource. So So we've got water quality issues. There's there's a little quote there at
the end. tributaries continue to suffer from pollution, high levels of bacteria, phosphorus, and pollutants. That's right, from the St. John's River report from 2024. So, these are real issues that are that are really uh getting worse, and we're very very concerned about that. Uh this we won't spend a lot
of time on, but as you all know, cuz you hear from springs advocates and you hear about the conditions of our springs, our uh maximum daily loads in our springs are in problematic places and they're not improving. So that's the water that's coming into the river. Uh we're already left with with some problems
with uh with high nutrient levels and pollution. Um plants really are the way to to achieve a a uh an improvement here. As as the last speaker just talked about, what you uh what you can accomplish with plants is really
remarkable when it comes to improvement in water quality. Um the example I use here is some storm water treatment areas uh that are undergoing the uh the biggest restoration project currently in the world is happening here in Florida in the Everglades and plants are being
used in all the manufactured wetlands to clean the water and it's being shown by the South Florida Water Management District to be some of the cleanest water in the resources in Florida that are going now into the Everglades and that's being achieved simply with plants. uh they reduce nitrogen and
phosphorus. And a little quick bullet point there, you may note floating plants are shown to reduce nutrients better than than any other plant, nutrients and chemicals. So, so kind of keep that on your radar as we as we move in here. The last couple slides, um we
have my slide got a little screwed up here, but we have uh we have uh several restoration projects occurring now on the St. John's River. Um we're involved in all of them. There are some state efforts that are occurring. There are some private efforts. We have a a series
of study efforts here in Valuchia County that are vegetation enclosures that are giving us a little bit more indication of what's going on, why we're having such a major uh decline in vegetation and habitat and what we need to do to move forward. And we would like to that
has shown tremendous interest with the community. Um, and we would like to move that uh forward even further and really see what are we going to do long term about improving water quality and really bringing more plants to the river. Um,
that is what we call our C, the citizens enclosure project. Uh so we're the only group in Florida that is that is looking at all the variables that may be leading to some of our environmental declines, including herbicide use, including nutrient uh buildup in the waterways. Um
this has got a lot of attention. You know, there's an article this month in Florida Sportsman Magazine about this. Um we're in the media continuously about this. We have uh influential political people, members of the academic community. We have supporters that are going on the water with us all the time,
business leaders, and they're helping us uh to really do our research, and they're seeing firsthand what's going on in our resource and what we're doing to improve it. Uh so, so this has been a really a big home run and and this has been something that we wanted to do in
Valuchia County. We wanted to show um that we are moving towards you know a more holistic viewpoint and and and better care of our resource and responding to these declines. Um moving forward a little bit more um the one of
the main problems and the hurdles we see is that current management of the river especially when it comes to plant management is the same process that's been happening now for over 60 years. Uh the Army Corps of Engineers is the leading group around here that maintains
plant management on the river. You can see from some of those slides and the condition that the current management is leaving the river is making the situation worse uh because of that. We're we're releasing a lot more nutrients into the water. Um we're
losing interest. We're having more and more problems uh with with uh people that are concerned about this. As a matter of fact, when it comes to our membership and people that follow us, the treatment of plants uh and current management is the number one concern by
far of people that are utilizing the river. Uh so what we would like to see is is more dialogue in this regard. We would like to see more study and and more utilization of plants to help get
us out of some of our nutrient concerns uh and and to really start to work in a more positive direction than what we have in the past. Um, you know, I I constantly am presenting about this and people bring this subject up all the time. And when we look at our resources
and we understand the population increase that we've seen since, you know, 1965, we've seen a five-fold population increase in Florida and Valuchia County. We have seen major major stressors as you all uh talk about and see all the
time here in in the council. stressors to the river, urbanization, nutrient concerns, storm water concerns, and we have all these factors and we're trying to do so much better environmentally in so many different areas. But the one thing that keeps
plugging away the same is the current management practice. So when it looks at when you look at a resource and you look at problems and you look at all those stressors and what we have to take into account to keep plugging away uh in the same in the same way is really uh goes
against the grain of trying to do better. Uh so a little bit about what we're talking about doing in the future is we would like to expand our efforts. We would like to see what we can do as far as quantifying uh the effectiveness
of plants and restoration of the St. John's River, especially for water quality issues, but also for use issues, for fishing issues, for outdoor recreation issues. Everything that we see that's tied to that part of our
community has declined. And we see all of these things that that you can't deny on paper when it comes to the environmental side and the ecosystem side of the river as really really suffering. But yet we really have not put a lot of attention into that. We
have specifically made this group to take on this issue. We said Florida Freshwater is not in a positive direction. Everywhere we look we see declines. We specifically put together a full-time 501c3
to address what's happened to the St. John's River over the last 25 or 30 years. Everywhere we go in the community, they're behind us. And and we feel we are in a good point in time to have Valuchia County help us to essentially lead the state of Florida in
addressing some major declines in our freshwater resources. Um, so thank you for giving me the time to to look into that. I believe that's about it. Yeah, that's just about us right there. And I made it in my 10 minutes. So,
harrah. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. I I know that we've had some That was quick. Uh I know we've had some uh preliminary talks with staff and and I think that and Ginger, correct
me if I'm I'm wrong. Are we at a point where we need kind of council direction to to move forward if we choose to to do so? Whether it's uh exploring grants uh echo applications or funding uh possibly through echko if he chooses uh to to to
do that. But ultimately council I encourage everybody to to get out on the river and look at their their citizen enclosure projects. Uh what they're doing is is working. You'll see grass in just about every one of them uh that that has been wiped out in my opinion
over uh the spring uh over the last number of years especially uh uh Mr. Kent you know up there towards Lake George. Uh but these guys every one of those pole enclosures that's the guy these guys and they want to move it uh further uh down
are Joe are you guys still the enclosure project in Silverglenn as well or is that no state? Though there's there's about five different vegetation type projects throughout the St. John's River in this general middle basin area. We're somehow involved in all of them. Whether it's
through volunteer efforts with the FWC, partner efforts with the St. John's Riverkeeper. The Silver Glenn effort is, I believe, through the US Forest Service. you know, it's it's uh jurisdiction there is really limited on there's so many different moving parts between the National Forest, the
National uh uh National Park Service, everything. Um so, no, we we're aware of that. We keep updated and and dialogue with the people that are actually doing that. Most of them are using the same blueprint, but that is not our exact
project. Our single projects that only we're involved in currently are in Lake Dexter, Lake Woodruff, and Lake Beersford, but we're somewhat involved in all of them. Uh so ultimately, council to I believe
satisfy uh uh Mr. Blog's um request uh for help. Uh can we explore um possible funding initiatives through grants or through ECHKO? We don't do a whole lot of environmental projects through Echo
uh as as some of the presentations earlier today and and talks. We we do a lot of outdoor uh recreation. This may be a good opportunity for us to to do that. And I appreciate the leniency. I know it's out of my district and actually met Mr. Blog and and a lot of
these folks when we were uh also talking about the uh keeping the springs uh open until we kind of get this figured out. So, um at the end of the day, council hopefully u we can have some good uh healthy talks about it, but I'm here to support uh Mr. Blog and his initiative
uh any way possible so that he's a a success and so that uh the people of Luchia County uh we can all benefit from this. Was that a motion? Sure. I don't know. Swing that. Yeah. I just need some specifics with like grants I'm on board with. I'm okay
with helping them get grants. I'm I'm You know what? Let me let me back up just a minute just because there are other people ahead of me that should speak first. Okay. Were you done? Are you going to you're going to come back? Yeah. If you want to make the motion, go ahead.
Let him come back after hear everybody first. And we have you you brought a contingency with you. I I believe we have contingency most places. We we're going to hear the presentation again. I just had a couple quick
questions with with the enclosures. I've I've talked to one of your people. Um actually was with FWC a year or more ago. Um are you in the enclosures? You you mentioned that the big problem
with the water was nitrogen, phosphorus. Um how about manatees, tilapias, turtles. Is the grass coming back because they're not able to get in and eat it now? Um if if I can just explain just a little bit when it comes to the vegetation enclosures, one of the big
things that we are doing, the work we're doing in Valuchia County is we're really looking at all of those variables. We're testing for phosphorus and nitrogen and seeing what that, you know, turbidity of the water clarity. Um, we're also ruling out things like tilapia, manatees, turtles, seeing how they're impacting.
Our our units and our study units are looking at all of these things. I also mentioned that we're specifically testing for herbicides in the water and in the soil. No one else is doing that. The state efforts aren't doing that. Uh, the private efforts besides ours are not
doing that. So we feel it's extremely important to start to look at this thing holistically as a big picture because what we've done so far when it comes to vegetation in the St. John's River has not worked. There has been 5 years now of state efforts to try and restore
vegetation without looking at some of these other variables like I mentioned and those have still resulted in no net gain. So we specifically took on this project again doing it here in Valuchia County to be a more indepth
larger broader view of what it's going to take for restoration. Restoration may not look like what we think it might look like. The river may not look in 2025 what it looked like in 1985. So we're really looking at all these variables. Long-winded answer, yes.
We're looking at tilapia manatees turtles in what we're doing. No data yet. Too soon. We have some data with nutrient data and herbicide data, but it's all very very okay. Not collected and and not full to say we
can report on it yet. Okay. Thank you. Uh Councilman Johansson. Thank you, sir. Um this was supposed to be a presentation and uh I'm looking forward to a great discussion. I think it's something that
that merits us looking at. Um uh but it's going to take me a lot of time and a lot of questions. Um A B they're a 501c3. They can apply for Echo at any time. Uh
Echo is not for operations. Echo is for programs. So, uh, if they can apply, apply, but but the the length of an echo and all that stuff has to be you can't just show up and then disappear in a
year. So, uh, you know, we got to be careful how we use the money. I'm all for exploring all these things. U, 90% of them I think staff can probably do uh, without our input. If something needs to come to us, I'm I'm all about
it. Um uh I I want to preserve I I would love to get rid of everything that's going in our water, including the stuff I put on my grass. Um um but but without without uh uh without everybody
agreeing, it's it's almost worthless. But uh I I'd love to discuss it. if we can uh put it on a on a uh agenda meeting to discuss after we get this the stats from uh from staff. So my motion
would be to bring it back uh with a staff report and find out how we can move forward with this and other things like it to u benefit our our water. That's all. Thank you.
Okay. You put a motion on the floor to have staff bring this back. Um, was there a second? Chairman, I I am happy to second it, but before I do, Miss Konchin queued up and I saw the look on her face, so if you don't mind, I'd like to hear from her. Yeah.
Uh, chairman, members of the council, and and I'm going to use Ginger Adair for backup on here, but this this is an important issue obviously uh for the county. Uh there was at least one slide that was presented about uh the Blue
Springs BMAP and that's really you know what I want to just comment on when bringing back a staff report. We are engaged currently with the state on their latest BMAP uh goals which are uh
very high for Valuchia County. I believe uh as it's been explained to me, even if we were able to take every septic st uh system in the Blue Springs BMAP area out of service and put on public sewer,
which is financially impossible, it would still not meet the goals that the state has set for the BMAP. And remember, a lot of those financial obligations could fall to the local government and has in some respects. Uh so we are working with the state right
now to try to get some guidance for them on the BMAP and we'll provide a staff you know we'll provide background information for you on that. Um the herbicide issue obviously frustrating I think for all of us
because local governments have been preempted from regulating their use here so or their sales. So, you know, our our hands are one that we're going to work as closely as we can. We'll bring you information. Just want you to know, I think Mr.
Johansson's right. We'll put uh you in contact with our echo staff to see if there are opportunities in that program uh that we can work with you on. We'll also keep uh in mind any other grant options that come forward. But I think
from the council's perspective, just understand this BMAP issue at the state level is um significant and substantial. Thank you. I'll second Mr. Johansson's motion. Yeah, I think I agree. I think that's the way to do it. You can agenda at that time, bring us back information and to
get staff to work with them on to work with Dr. uh Brad on echo. Um because they can do that themselves. Um, okay. The second was by Troy Kent. Any other There's a lot of people to
talk here. I just had a quick question. Yeah, unless Mr. Kent has another. No, go ahead, Troy. Okay, Matt Reinhardt. Does this address the Gemini area as well? Would that address the Gemini area? Are you talking about the BAP or
That's a separate BAP area. That's a separate BAP. And can I speak real quick to the BAP issue, too? Yeah. just just to fill you in a little bit more on that because I missed and I have spoke about this in the past a little bit and and like you were mentioning the the the B maps are I mean so you're given these numbers for the
springs of of what we're hoping to attain and it's like is it even attainable uh when it comes to the corrections that we can make at septic tanks and things. Um, and that just kind of goes in, we use that slide to kind of show, hey, this these are the numbers and and how we how we debate what those
numbers are is is is not so much what we're talking about. What we're talking about is we're already dealing with such impaired water to start with that everything we can do moving forward will help the river when it comes to utilizing plants and utilizing ways to start to, you know, to reduce those
those nutrients. So, we don't have a solution to how we're going to bring the the numbers down at Blue Springs. What we're simply saying is when that water is coming into the river, we need to start doing everything we can to improve it and and our current uh methods of
management are actually working against that. So, that's all I was and and I think we agree on that totally. Yep. Yep. I just wanted to address so everybody knew that I didn't it wasn't like we were calling out the B maps or something. We're just using that as an example. Thank you, though. Okay. Uh
Danny, you want to say anything else and then we'll we'll go to the public and then vote. I I agree, Chair. Um following the process with this, this gives uh staff kind of a clear idea of of what we're looking for. Um you know, I'm on board with you guys. I see what you guys do
day in day out. But um it it gives us just a little bit of time to uh get with staff, regroup, see what's available uh and uh help you know help you out uh however we can in the meantime. We appreciate that greatly. Thank you all for taking so much time. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman. Just for a point for for procedural purposes, I guess I just made that up, but um we have 10 items remaining on our agenda and this is a presentation and I know we always like to let the public speak as much as possible. if the members of the public on the presentation can keep it concise
because we still have 10 more items to go through and we have an hour and a half to get done. So an hour 15 sorry um that's just my personal request so we can get through all the business. Normally presentations are aren't really a public item wave in support comment. Thank you. Yeah when I call your name you you have
three minutes. If you can do it less, do it less. And if you if you want to pass, pass. Um because there's quite a few. Uh Frederick Marts. First of all, I'd like to thank you all for the opportunity to come and talk to you today and have us here. It's a big
deal. Myself personally, 25 years ago this week, I moved to Florida from Western Pennsylvania. I came here for two main reasons. Financial future for my family because of the fishing opportunities that St. John's River had. Both worked out for quite a while. Uh
2008 there was a crash. Everybody knows that company I worked for. Uh we sold our branding rice to uh another company and I didn't want to go to Virginia so I stayed here. I went to work for Walmart for a couple years. I can tell you something you probably don't think about
when you think about this river. It's the financial impact that this river has in the land area, Valuchia County area. I sold license every day to people from out of state coming here to fish. This
was 2010, 2011, 2012. I mean, I'm talking four, five, six hours a day doing nothing but sell license, selling fishing tackle, selling worms, giving advice, and listening to those people talk. They were staying at
the fish camp from Blacka to Sanford. It's not just a small thing. It's everywhere in Lake Woodruff itself. When I first started fishing up there, which is a national preserve, by the way, it was ringed with hydrilla around
the outside. Bass pros, every time the elites had a fishing tournament, they came here from Paka all the way to Lake Woodruff to fish. That's a long run from them guys. Well, the FWC, who was in control
working with the Army Corps of Engineers, they dropped poison pellets from the air and it killed the hydrella. The lake responded with what we call floating dollar pads and they killed it too. That has killed the economy. We've got to do something
to stop the way the river is being treated. You just you just can't continue to spray and kill everything in the river. We've got to look at other ways. Plus, there's mechanical options. There's other options. We got to look at a different way. We can do it on our own,
but your help would sure be appreciated. Thank you. eight. Thank you, David Williamson. Hi, my name is David Williamson. Thank you all for having us here and seeing this presentation. Uh, I come in here as
a Coast Guard certified fishing captain. Um, a Florida commercial fisherman and also a bait and tackle store owner in Aster, Florida. Um, right on the St. John's River. Uh, the fishing has dramatically decreased. Um, I get clients from all over the country come
in just because they want to fish the St. John's River. And I leave there and go to the Harris chain and do bass fishing because it's better over there. They have hydrilla. They have eel grass, uh, bull rush, they have all that, but
St. John's River doesn't anymore. Um, so we need some help. We would appreciate y'all's help or anybody's help. I've been on the ground with Mighty River since they started. Um, I've done some donations for them and and whatnot. Um,
but any help is is good for us. So, we thank y'all for your consideration and uh look forward to working with y'all. Thank you very much. Uh, Daniel Bass. It's a good name.
Thank you again once again. Uh, my name is Daniel Bass and I am a Valuchia County native. Actually, West Valuchia. I was born and raised in Deair and made it all the way to to Dand. Um, so, uh, I've seen this river growing up. Um, I am an avid kayaker. Um, something that we love to do on the backwaters of the
St. John's River, take nature photography, birds, ducks, things like that. And I can 100% say that uh over the last 10 years, the duck populations, the bird populations have just been on a steady decline. And not only that, the current techniques that are being used
where they're just spraying all of this, it's turning into muck and sinking to the bottom of the river. That is stopping any sunlight from getting in to help these grasses grow. And it's also a safety concern for myself and my family's kayakers. one of us goes out in
that muck. We're up to here in in muck. It's hard to get out of that. So, just these these current techniques that they're doing are safety hazards in my opinion as well as the habitat decline. And I just think that we can do a lot better of a job than what's being done
and what we're seeing happen to this resource that's literally in our backyard. Thank you. Thank you. Well said. Uh Raphael, is it Euro? Raphael still here.
Greg Lawrence. Thank you. My name is Greg Lawrence. I uh was very fortunate to grow up on the St. John's River. And sometimes I tell people I was one of the last to live a Norman Rockwell childhood because when I grew up, my summertime job was catching
crabs and selling them in the local newspaper. Don't ask me if I had the appropriate licenses. It was a different time. And the river had way steep grass u from the shore all the way out all the way to Jacksonville, all the way to the Buckman
Bridge. It's all gone. And uh it's kind of a death by a thousand cuts, but nobody's doing a comprehensive study. You know, you've got a lot of suspects and we all know the water quality has been impacted and there've been hurricanes and there's
herbicides that have been applied for decades and we've got a turbidity problem and a muck problem and nobody's really doing the comprehensive work. and I came across Mighty River Recovery. And I have to thank Joe for his efforts because they are pinpointed on exactly
the issue that bothers me, the loss of vegetation. And it's amazing to find an organization that's so finally pinpointed on the very issue that I see. It's one thing to be a national environmental organization of some sort and try to fight a thousand
different battles. They're focused on exactly the one. And one of the things they're using is science, right? They're taking this anecdotal evidence of people like me and the others who've seen the fishing just get worse and worse to the point where people aren't coming um and
uh applying the science and finding out what is in the the sediment, what is in the dirt, what are the herbicides doing. It takes funding. As as county commissioners, you have applications come across your desk every day that are going to add more people to the county
and invariably that hurts the river a little bit. It does. We We do. We can't We can't help it. But when you get an opportunity to help the river, you want to talk about leadership, you want to have an opportunity to help, not just hurt it a little bit, but help the
river, take it, consider taking it because that's what real stewards do, right? They take that opportunity because we're going to have the growth. We're going to continue to have runoff into the river no matter what we do. So if we can do it scientifically, if we can fund some organizations that are
pinpointed directly to the problem, we should take the opportunity to support those organizations. Whether you're uh on the political spec spectrum staunchly liberal or staunchly conservative, a benefit to the river benefits everybody. Whether it's nature for the sake of
nature or nature for the sake of hotels, fish camps, and property value, it's all benefited. So thank you for hearing us. And uh if you get an opportunity to help this river, please do so. When you were a kid, what was the price of 12 blue crab? You were $2.50.
Gosh. Thank you, Greg. And next we have the amazing Georgia Turner. Hi everybody. body. I'm Georgia Turner, uh the executive director for the West Falia Tourism Office, and I think it's obvious why I'm here. Uh I'm here today
to support my friends at the Mighty River Recovery. We've been along with them for the ride since the very first, too. And their efforts to protect and restore the health of the St. John's River is what we're most impressed with. At Westia Tourism, we view the St.
John's as the heart of our tourism economy, and we deeply value the work that these folks are doing. So, as someone who serves on a lot of boards and different committees, I'm especially impressed that they're putting their money where their mouth is. They are getting out there and doing the work and
it's really showing. So, any support that you can give them in our uh presentation that we gave to you earlier in the uh earlier in the month that was earlier last year, that was one of our main things that we were talking about and they've really become an important partner. So, I just thank you today for
recognizing them and helping them in the future. Thanks. Thank you, Captain Flowers. Ladies and gentlemen of the council, thank you for having us and thanks for the consideration. I'm Captain Red Flowers, born and raised in Dan 65 years
ago, and I'm a second generation uh guide, charter captain, and it's obvious that I've seen the river decline. And I knew um the gentleman before me spoke when I saw these local guides start leaving the area. They lure we lure them
to the St. John's and then we shuttle them over to another area to take them fishing. I knew then that we had a big problem and um I I'm going to um give up a lot of time right here, but I thank you for your consideration. We certainly appreciate it. and not only
am I a advocate of uh the mighty river recovery, I'm on the board of directors since day one and uh gladly appreciate you guys. Thank you. Thank you very much. Katherine Pante is our last speaker.
I'll keep it brief. I support this project. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Uh the motion on the floor, Danny, is for staff to to uh put this on the
agenda, bring it back, and um we we have to keep pushing forward. And also, if you would let us know, not not right now, but somebody can leave a card or something, how can us as we as individuals get involved and and join you? So, I I would really like to know
that. So, no, we don't have time. We don't have time. No, we don't have time. They don't want you to. Can you Can you handle a card? Just leave a card with Cararissa,
please. Okay. Um, all in favor of bringing this back say I. I. Any opposed? And that carries. Thank you, council. Seven to zero. Good project, Danny.
Okay, thank you all for coming in. Um 10 11 we'll do 11 and 12 uh together. Smallcale comprehensive plan amendment for Ostein urban residential. Um 12 is a quasi judicial hearing. Does
anyone have any exparte to declare on item 12? Email. No, I had an email. Oh, you did an email. Okay. All right. Thank you, Carol McFarland, Planning and Development Services
Director. Um think this one will go fairly fast. We'll do item 11 and 12 together. This is a smallcale comprehensive plan amendment and a reszoning from Ostein urban residential to Ostein transitional residential at
305 Carpenter in Ostein. So this um is a 3.8 acre parcel. It's surrounded by parcels of similar size and uh to the southwest or yeah southwest a little bit smaller sizes
and it's uh future land use um is the same Ostein urban residential and uh they're going to the Ostein transitional residential. The OUR has a density range of four to eight dwelling units per acre. So the
four is the minimum density and um at that minimum density requires central utilities because the health department will not allow um septic systems on parcels that are less than half an acre. So because of the minimum density here
um this parcel is essentially not eligible for subdivision. So the uh reasonzoning and the future land use change will um result in no minimum density and they would be able to get up to a maximum of four dwelling units per
acre. However, again that that uh department of health limitation will restrict them to just halfacre lots. So um PLLDRC heard this on the June 19th 2025 meeting. There was no public
participation. This is in essence a downzoning. Um so the community did not um have any opposition to this and the planning and land development regulation commission voted unanimously to find it consistent and forward to growth and resource
revolution county growth management commission. Motion to approve. Second. Okay. We have a motion to approve by Danny Robbins and the second was by David Santiago. Any questions for staff comment? All in
favor say I. I. Any opposed? And 11 is approved unanimously. 12. Is there a motion on motion to approve by Santiago, second by Danny Robbins.
Questions for Paulo, for staff, for anybody? Okay. All in favor say I. I any oppose? And that also we like down zonings. Okay, next item. I'll be quick. Paulora, senior assistant county attorney. This
is an ordinance that establishes the Dean River Community Development District. Um so here's approximately where it is. It's uh located on Old New York Avenue, 1520 ft west of intersection with the H Road City of the Land Utility Service Area. Um it serves
the uh Dean River Conservation Subdivision. That is a subdivision that has already been approved. It's approximately 230 units, probably less over 217 acres. 122 acres is conservation area. Because it's conservation subdivision, it requires a conservation management plan. The
approval or denial to CDD does not affect the conservation subdivision. In fact, it's already under construction. Um so, you know, this is just as um it's it is while it's technically a a special purpose government entity, think of it like a financing mechanism. Um, so a CDD
has all these things that they can do if you choose to create it. Um, there's 15 to 60 CDDs um, already existing in Valuchia County. All of them are in the cities. Um, as a government, they're subject to sunshine law, public records, code code of ethics. Eventually, they're going to be subject to um, to election.
Um, so what you're being asked in the petition is essentially four things. create the CDD, name the CDD, define the legal boundary of the CDD, you know, identify the five initial board members, and they are asking for two special powers, recreation to, you know, for parks and security in case they want
security guards to gate something like that. It is not a development order, and the statute specifically says no debt or obligation to the county. Um, these are their proposed facilities and services with the estimated costs and the proposed operation and maintenance
entity. uh they're proposing to take out the roads, the storm water ponds, the conservation area um you know and fund the utilities. Uh this is kind of their proposal. It's not binding. Uh here's the statutory factors you are supposed to take into account. Staff has reviewed
them. Um they, you know, it's consistent. It seems to be meet all the criteria. So recommendation is for approval. Thank you very much. Uh Councilman Santiago. Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, CDDs are are a great option. It offers the county
a lot more tools. It offers the community a lot more tools and it also allows for a lower entry point for people to purchase homes. I move that we approve. Second, Johansson. Motion to approve by David Santiago, second by Jake Johansson. Um, looks to
me like it also saves the county some money. They're going to do their roads and Yes. Yes. The proposal is that for that to be uh CDD roads. Yeah. Uh for an already approved subdivision. We're not we're not
approving the division subdivision today. It's that's been done in the past. Uh any questions for staff? Any other comments? The motion is to approve uh creating it. Um all in favor say I. I.
Any opposed? So, it's six until Danny gets back. All right. We need to Are you covered for naming it? And do you need to go through all of those other things? No. Uh, approval of the ordinance approves everything. Okay.
Well, item 14, proposed vacation of of a portion of section number six. Tell us about the vacation, Danny. We just voted on the CDD. Are you yes or no? Yes. And motion to approve on 14.
So 13 was 7 to zero. Uh item 14 is a quad quasi judicial hearing. Mr. Chairman, and there's already a motion to approve. Yes, sir. Um just I have a conflict on this one, so I'll be abstaining from the vote. And I I know you said this last time.
What's the nature of your conflict? Uh it's my daughter's property. Thank you. Okay. Does anyone uh he's already recused. Does anyone else have uh expparte to declare?
None. Okay. Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Tad Case Bear, county engineer. Uh this is a request to vacate uh approximately 18,000 square feet out of two 35 ft rights of way in the uh subdivision. County has no issues
with that. Uh we have had no problems with the utilities and we recommend approval. and second. Okay. Motion to approve was by Danny Robbins. The second was by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any questions for staff? Any comments? All in favor say I.
I. Any opposed? And it's approved. Seven to zero. Say so. Who's out now? Oh, six here. Yeah. Well, he secretly said yes.
Item 15 is the first reading of ordinance 2025-20 amending chapter 72 code of ordinance regarding special exemption uses. All right. Thank you, Carol McFarland.
Again, um this ordinance is per council request. This is a a widecale change to the zoning ordinance. the zoning ordinance um has every zoning classification has listed permitted uses
and listed special exceptions. So, we're only talking about the listed special exceptions with this ordinance. There are 137 different uses in the various zoning classifications that require special exceptions. And special exceptions are uh they go through two
public hearings, one with planning and land development regulation commission and one with council. So, the purpose of this ordinance is to reduce the number of public hearings um for those 137 special exceptions. Um I'm I'm going to go through try to go
as fast as I can while also giving you the information necessary, but uh for most of the uses, what we've come up with in the end is a reduction in the amount of time to process those applications by up to two and a half
months. there. Um the whole ordinance is based on reducing regulations. So we were very very careful that nothing that we were doing is more restrictive um consistent with Senate Bill 180 in that
respect. Um as I previously said, there's there's um the permitted by right, which are the listed permitted uses and special exceptions. There's a third type called conditional uses. It's backyard chickens and food trucks that are only approved
by staff, so they don't go to the council level. So, those are the three types of uses that we have in our ordinance right now that we work on. This ordinance um has gone through five public workshops. This is the sixth
public workshop. on February 6, 2024, staff got um took the approach that we wanted to take with the ordinance to council to get um kind of an idea of the structure of the ordinance. So, what we came up with was that there will be now instead of the three types of uses,
there's four types for certain uses that have life safety or quality life concerns such as junkyards and borrow pits. Those will maintain approval through county council. So they would get the two um workshops with PLDRC and
county council for the types of uses that may have some compatibility issues and may have an impact on property value or have nuisances. Those will now only go to the PLDRC.
Those are things like kennels and self- storage units. The third type are the conditional use conditional uses. These are st uh uses where the nuisances can be controlled and managed by meeting special criteria. Those again it's a
special permit but it's approved by county staff. And the fourth category is the by right uses um and the tactic we took on that is if we our current regulations can control any nuisances that staff should have the ability to
approve those as well. The second public workshop was with the PLDRC and what we did was we took all 137 uses and we put it into an Excel spreadsheet. You should have these 11
by17s on your desk um that are part of the it's kind of our cheat sheet for the whole ordinance. Um what you'll see is your special exception uses on the left in the middle. It's a column that shows which zoning classifications that use is
allowed by right. The um third column are zoning classifications where those uses are allowed by special exception. And on the right hand side we've recommended who the improving body should be. We've broken them up so all of the uh special exception uses that
should be by right are kind of grouped and colored light green. And then the same with conditional uses are kind of like a light pink. PLLDRC is blue and the county councils are light orange. So we showed that spreadsheet to the PLLDRC
on March 21st, 2024. They made certain recommendations and changes to the spreadsheet. We'd made those changes and took it to county council on July 23rd, 2024. Again, there were some movement of uses from one areas to another based on
um you guys' input. There was another meeting on October 1st, 2024 with council um where we basically took the spreadsheet that we'd worked on on July 23rd and and got confirmation um that these were the the things that we were working with so far
that we were on the right track. So, when we did our fifth public workshop with PLLDRC um they also had some recommendations. There is a memo in your agenda item that very clearly lays out what their recommendations were. There were a few
uses um that are in the spreadsheet as underlined in red. Those are the ones that the planning commission wanted to change. So at that point after PLLDRC um we started drafting the or sorry before PLLDRC we drafted the ordinance
based off of that spreadsheet. We've made changes to the ordinance based on PLLDRC. So the draft ordinance you have in front of you um is the result of the PLLDRC uh meeting. And just a quick clarification, one of
the thing components of the ordinance is there's a clarifying statement that county owned and leased lands operated by the county are exempt from receiving special exceptions because you guys already go through the whole approval process um already. So we don't also
take those to public hearing. The ordinance also includes updated definitions of special exception and temporary campgrounds. The fairgrounds is has been asking us for a while to make it set in stone that um temporary
campgrounds are a permitted use for them that they don't have to get special permission to do those. So, we've added that into the definition sess section um as well as in the spreadsheet as well. So, what we ended up with is 51 uses
that are now going to be by write and that will save our applicants um 2 and 1/2 months in the development process for those 51 uses that are going from county council to approval by right. 11
uses um will become conditional uses that will save two months in the process. 50 uses are to be approved by the PLDRC that will save one month and then the 25 uses that remain approved by county council are keeping the same
process. We also um had to do some housekeeping with those changes. There was uh some tables in the landscaping code that we had to just change the terms so that instead of saying special exception use groups, we're saying use groups. Um that
way it doesn't matter which category it's in. We know um which ones apply to that per use. And then um there are special criteria for a lot of these 137 uses. They're found in section 72290, 72293
as well as 304 to 309. So, we're just moving that all into one section. So, PLLDRC made the the changes. I already talked about that. That's starting on page 214 of your agenda item if you want to look at that. The Valuchia County Association of
Responsible Development sent a letter of support for the ordinance. Um, and we did get one email that um, I think there was some confusion about whether this ordinance was written to comply with Senate Bill 180. It it was not. It was
at the behest of the county council and we just made a statement that it's consistent with Senate Bill 180. So, with that, we Oops, I pushed the wrong button again, but I guess it's okay. Um, with that, we are here for questions. Um, we spent a really long time working
on this. It was a little more than a year going through all of the process and these six public hearings and especially uh right before planning commission drafting the ordinance. Um myself, Christopher Ryan and Kristen Ray um who's not here today. We spent
probably the last four to five months. This was pretty much all we did for a really long time. So, um we've gotten really good input from the public on it. Um from the PLDRC, it was a very robust but a very productive conversation. Um, so I just want to thank my staff members
in the PLLDRC for getting us through that. And with that, um, we are here for questions. Okay. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, uh, chair, staff. Uh, thank you. I know this was a big undertaking, um, uh, for you guys to do over the last
year. Uh, just have a couple quick quick questions, not just for for you guys, but for council as well. I know, uh, we focused on um, reducing uh restrictions and liberty with our property and property rights.
Uh cutting down the amount of uh wait time, which I think is probably a lot more uh than than two and a half months uh for some of this stuff. Um spending money with uh getting attorneys um the the list the list goes on. So
looking this at a perspective of where we can ultimately save more money and I like the proposal where it's going, but I still think we can we can do better because if you look at some of the the zoning um classifications council, you know, like industrial stuff, uh which
this whole council has said, hey, we need more industrial to um offset our uh or diversify our tax base. Uh so you know but if you look through this the only way you know from local government up to federal government to get more
industrial is for government to get out of the way. So here we have uh business and commercial sites that are zoned for this that communities were uh built around for the last however many years.
There's these areas where it's acceptable. They're few and far between, but we're still making them jump through. Go to this board, go to this board, go to this six hearing, go back to council, go back to here. No, no, no, no, no. We can't have our cake and eat it, too. Uh and David, you know, if we
want to sling that pistol, uh and if we truly want to reduce the size of government and all this bureaucracy that we see, if it's zoned for it and our comp plans or and our communities or or uninccorporation is was built on this
all the way back from how we grow and what in the ' 70s uh when this whole thing started. uh why why for all these additional things cuz this stuff costs money and it's a deterrence. It's a uh economy killer. You know, this will
improve property values. This will help create some jobs. This will reduce costs across the boards. Um I'm ready to get better on this if if if council's willing to. Uh you know, I I I I'll say it again. I've
said it before, but um you know there are some HOAs in unincorporated Valuchia, but all of unincorporated Valuchia should not be an HOA, and I think we need to get out of the way. So, I'm interested in in in hearing what my colleagues have to say, and hopefully we
can come to a uh a u a better proposal. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. I just had a question for Danny and and then if we have public comments, Mr. Chair, we do. I have three. Okay. and then I'll speak maybe after that. But but Danny, um could you uh
are uh can you be a little more direct on what you're suggesting what you want to do and see how I I support it? Well, it's it's going to be pretty complex. I would I would have council look at
the we know we know what the hot topics are, right guys? Um the like for instance dog kennels, right? We've had one or two calls. That was a major case for us. Listen, there's some areas where cell phone towers are going to be an issue. Some of that stuff, we can have
staff go over it, right? Staff approval. Some of the major stuff like your um what was it? Es excavations and um where else was it?
Like livestock feed lots. Why do we have that going back to the PLRDC if they get it aged? You know, all this stuff is waved. So, there's certain things where we'd have to go down as a unit. Gotcha. On a P like the stuff that goes back to the PL DRC and see
if if if we're willing to it's it's too complex for right now. Yeah, I I I get it. Um, so maybe I mean after we hear the public comments, maybe this is more worthy of a just a dedicated workshop to go down the list. Absolutely. And every single one and then we tell
staff bring it back to us to vote on. So you making a motion to do a work on this. What do you real quick? You know, I don't want to make Listen, um, I'm I'm all for getting making all this stuff by right, but that also wouldn't be right. Right. Okay. So
there there's some things on here that deserve attention and all of our areas are very unique and and and that would be selfish of us to to to do that. But I think if we look at the stuff that that is maybe a conditional use or the PLDRC, if we can cut this process in half,
anything is better than how we're doing it now because we're we're so anemic. It's unbelievable. I I like where you're going. I think worthy of workshop. We go line by line and say yay nay whatever we wanted to do and then bring it back to vote on. So, I move that we schedule a workshop to go
line by item on this dedicated to this this item so that we can give staff direction. Schedule a workshop. The uh motion is to take this to a workshop. The second was by uh Danny Robbins. Um
I it would take too much time to do it today. I completely agree because I had a lot of questions on this and um I don't want to have to hurry through it. It's too important. Um, it's good work. Thank you for everybody who participated in it for
the last year. We asked you for it. You've produced it. It's It's very good. But it you had questions, I'm sure, along the way and and we will, too. Um, Suzanne Ken, uh, thank you, Chairman. Just as a reminder to council, we presented this
list to you before we ever started down the road of taking this to PLDRC. So, this would have not been the first time. We're happy to set this again for you to spend more time on it so late in the day. I understand it it's not appropriate today. I don't think a
workshop is appropriate. I think we put it on as an agenda item. If you want to look at this again line by line, we'll happily go through that with you. But I think at this point because we're noticed, having it in the public hearing format is probably most appropriate and
we'll we'll keep working on it. Yeah. And that will allow you to make a decision. At a workshop, you wouldn't be able to make a final decision. You want to change your motion? Um, yeah. I think wanted to make a comment. Let's say, uh, David, I I think, you know, staff did spend a lot of time on this. Um, I
think I'd be open to uh to support your motion to to adopt this stuff as as presented. They made some great headway here. Gotcha. But but what I can do is is um or what we can do, we can get this adopted, but also too now cut this pie
down and say, "Okay, now the stuff from the PLDRC, can we do better?" And I think that would that would narrow this this down. All right, Mr. Chair, I I'd like to withdraw my motion and then let someone make a motion accordingly. Motion to approve uh Valia County
Special Exemptions Ordinance 2025-20 as written. Second. First reading. Okay. The motion from uh Councilman Johansson is to approve as presented
here today. The second was by Danny Robbins. Um I'm uh uh questions or comments on on that. Did you have a
Well, I just want to clarify that um you know this is first reading so we will have a a second reading at some point. Um it is noticed. So um if you're do going to delay the August 19th meeting um just that that we
do so at that meeting um for another workshop. August 19th. We're not doing Yeah. We're not doing a workshop. Okay, that's fine, too. Not doing the workshop. The motion is to approve what you've given us. I'm not
there yet. I can't vote to approve. I have too many questions on it. But that's what the motion is and the second. Um and and just to be clear, you're not you would not be adopting it today. You would have to come back to you second reading to adopt.
And go ahead, Mr. Kent. Thank you, Chairman. And and that's why I put my name up on the board was I was going to say, can can we not do a workshop? Can George put this on a future agenda where we have some time? We've had presentations today, multiple
that were hours. So this way we have this we can do we can do the homework and when we come back to that meeting we can go line by line and and get this thing knocked out and it's a public hearing where we can vote on it, not a
workshop. That's all I was going to say. Okay. Uh somebody just disappeared. Okay. So, your your motion, Jake, is to uh approve this,
allow it to go to the second reading. Okay. Where changes can be made. Okay. Uh any questions on that for Yeah. And if you know if you need to have a third meeting on that, you can do that.
Second meeting is still August 19th at a certain does it have to be a certain time? After five. Just after five. Just after five. So we'd have to have it a nighttime meeting. But that's when the decision Well, that's when it's already been advertised. And again, we can make a when we look at the agenda at the agenda
conference like Mr. Ken said we'll try to work make sure the agenda is such that uh there's time to do this one. Uh it may mean moving something else around but we'll we'll we'll do that right now. Tenatively from what I've been able to
see we probably would have time. So okay we've got till what 5:30. We have uh let's hear we have three members of the public that wanted to opine on this.
Gary Singleton. Yes. My name is Gary Singleton. There's a reason property owners are required to apply for special exemp exceptions. There's a reason the process affords neighbors, excuse me, an an opportunity to voice their concerns
about any adverse consequences to be suffered by their community. By right abolishes this process. By right ends citizen input. You, our elected officials, are directly accountable to the Valuchia County citizens. allowing
special exceptions to be approved by right or the PLDRC abolishes the right of Valuchia County citizens to voice their concerns before this elected body. It is wrong to silence Valuchia County citizens in the name of efficiency. It's wrong to sherk your responsibilities as
elected officials because you find citizen input time consuming and annoying. An example, my personal example, someone buys a house, a residential house in the Tmoka Farms village. They transform this
home into a church. Then they decide to do a K through2 school, which is contrary to the local plan covering this residence. Can they get this by special exemption? Currently, we have a voice. We can con we can bring our concerns and we can
insist that you obey the letter and the intent of the local plan. By right would remove this means. You would silence an entire community in favor of making it easier for an individual to fully exploit their
property with no consideration for the consequences to be suffered by others. I'm going to mention what happened here today over the cell tower and a dog pool. Someone wanted a dog pool. And look at the discussion. There was a
community had concerns. They brought it to the owners. There were public meetings. It was resolved equitably, but in public and with citizen input instead of just giving the owners the by
right. This is just one of the examples. I still have a little more time. Uh dogpool, consider what that was and compare that to someone wanting to build a pulp factory
or a paper mill by right. And you know, we can't say anything about that. We have no say in that. So, no, I'm against this. I'm against silencing citizens and and reducing our ability to input. Thank
you. Thank you, Katherine Pante. Good afternoon, council. I'm writing to express my strong opposition to the proposed amendments on chapter 72 of the code of ordinance concerning the treatment of special exceptions by right uses. Granting special exceptions by right eliminates critical opportunities
for public input particularly during county council meetings where residents have traditionally had a chance to voice concerns and provide feedback on development projects. This reduces tr this shift reduces transparency and diminishes the role of residents in shaping the future of our own neighborhoods. It is especially
troubling that development such as motocross facilities and car washes would be permitted by right under the proposed changes. Activities that can significantly impact noise, traffic, and environmental quality while ordinary residents must still obtain a conditional use permit for something as simple and low impact as keeping
backyard chickens. This amendment creates a double standard that favors commercial development while burdening individual residents. It is essential that all uses with potential impacts on surrounding communities retain subject to a fair and open public review process. The last thing we should be doing is creating fewer permitting
restrictions for developers. I respectfully urge you to reject and propose changes to Chapter 72 and preserve the community's right to participate in decisions that directly affect our quality of life. Thank you. Thank you, Wendy Anderson. Wendy Anderson. I live in Dand. Um I do
want to thank staff for the incredible amount of time that they put into creating this and the um six five six public meetings that they have hosted um to fine-tune it. Um although although I do appreciate all the time they've put into it and the fact that you all have
already seen it at least once. Um I do agree with Mr. Singleton and Miss Pante that um I think the public input process is really important. I'm all about efficiency and and certainly streamlining government processes. I don't like, you know, too much regulation. I don't but I do think it's
important to hear from the public particularly when you know it's in somebody else's backyard. I think that is critical and um and I would like to see us be a little bit more thoughtful. I'm glad we're going to take it. We're going to bring it back and line item it one more time. sorry staff and you know
and really consider um the impact of all of these things. So um I'm I'm worried about certain things stopping at PLLDRC. If it needs to go all the way to PLDRC, I think it probably needs to come all the way to council because the council are the elected officials. They're the ones that the people actually choose to
represent them. PLLDRC is not chosen by the people. They're chosen by the council. So, you know, there's less um there's less accountability of the PLDRC members to the public than there is for the council members. So, um I'd like us to I I will look forward to the
continuing discussion. Thank you. Thank you. And that, uh ends the public participation. Uh Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chairman. I just had a couple clarifying uh things. I'll make it quick. Does the the PLDRC do public comment?
Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. So we do have a means uh for the public to speak. It doesn't silence them. They are publicly noticed as well. And and during the staff refuel process, is there an appeal process uh in with the staff refuel as well? That way if
there is uh special circumstances or curveballs uh in the mix, it can come to council in the event it can't get settled. Right. that every decision um in
development has an appeal period, a 30-day appeal period. Um the difference with the by right and the conditional uses is that there would be no public noticing that a decision had even been made. So the PLLDRC and obviously the
council meetings, there's that public notice, right? So that um people can come and and voice their concerns. But with the byite uses and the conditional uses the we don't have that. So they would have to been talking to the neighbor the neighbor talking to them and letting them know
that it was happening. And and Carol real quick uh and thank you for that. Uh say if if a developer uh comes in uh you can't build a multi- uh stage subdivision or a commercial like a PUD under uh a special exception. You and I
know that because we do that every day. But that's not going to be the message. that's unfortunately going to be portrayed out to our community. Does this favor uh a developer uh per se? Cuz what what I see in this whole thing, guys, and and and public and and Carol
is the individual uh land owner uh that has this this uh 30 and 40 50y old pol wet blanket policy uh that uh just uh continues to to to smother them. So, um, you know, I'm glad you're able to to to
answer this stuff and clarify it cuz it's going to help us out, I believe, in the future. So, I think we're going in the right direction. Thank you for for everything and your hard work, uh, everybody's hard work. Thank you, Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, staff, thank you for your herculean effort and the
yearslong work you put in to this list of special exception uses you've given us, many of them by right. I will not try to speak for the other members on this council. I've heard a couple say it, but I know that I have questions on some of these that will have to be answered. I'm going to approve it today
and then at our our second hearing that we have on this, that'll be an opportunity for us to go line by line and and make the changes if we can get others to agree with us. So, I just I want the public to know. I also have some questions and I'm sure I'll get all those answered from now until then and
then I'll share those answers at that time at that second hearing, second reading. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Danny, for asking a clarifying questions on whether this is a developer friendly initiative because it isn't. I know commentary might have led that way by
others, but it's further from the truth. I see this as the the lack of a better term, the layman's that that really don't understand the process or maybe even a small business owner that wants to do something in their property. But more importantly, what what I like about
it is that it is and correct me if I'm wrong is these things that are are permitted by special exceptions. So or so there's already a capability of having that in there. Why add additional government bureaucracies to go through
it? Right? So, um, at least all of the special exceptions that I can recall, staff typically comes with a checkbox for the type of use for that special exception. And those boxes are normally, I think, for what I recall also, are all
checked before it comes to us. Um, and eliminating the additional steps in the cost for a homeowner, I'd be okay with that, right? So, if we don't like something that shouldn't be on a specific area or a parcel as a special exception under a certain zoning
category, then let's remove it, right? But if we can put it in there as a special exception, why have these additional bureaucracy steps? So, I and then let the property owner do it. That way, all of the neighbors, anybody that's going to buy a property, if they
do their due diligence, they know what the zoning is. they know what the neighbor zoning is if they want to look it up and they'll see what are permitted uses in the area. Um I so I am for eliminating bureauc bureaucracy and let's discuss the individual exceptions see if we like them or not and maybe
create a different process for those more sensitive things that we think we should have this governing body discuss. So I'm okay with it and look forward to the next discussion. Councilman Dempsey. Yeah. I just want to make sure there uh nip this in the bud before there's any
misinformation going out. The uh the motocross by right in this proposal is for bicycle motocross which is BMX correct? Yes and thank you for bringing that up. Um so the
by right is in the um straight to it is in a business zoning classification and it's bicycle only like strictly. Right. Right. But the actual motocross that we were talking about earlier today type of facility is right now proposed to go
before the council to where the public can comment and all that. That is correct. It's it's at the bottom the very last line of the spreadsheet just based on alphabetical order. Speedways, racetracks, and motorized vehicle/motocross courses in the A1 and A2 zoning classifications approved by
council. So, I do want to make it clear to you that that is about a a commercial motocross facility. Does not affect a residential course at home. That's perfectly fine. You're allowed to do that now. Yes, that's all I have. I thank you guys.
Okay. So, the motion on the Thank you, Carol. The motion on the table is to move this to the August 19th meeting at after 5:00 p.m. Motion is to approve the first reading.
Okay. We can still change it on August 19th after 5:00 pm. I think that's important, Jake, for the public to know that because I otherwise I can't vote for it. I No, I I concur. I just want to make sure that we're not moving the first reading.
We are approving the first reading for allowing the second reading to happen after 5:00 pm on the 19th. Correct. Okay. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? and second reading will be August 19th.
Mr. Chairman, yes. I wanted to uh make a motion that the remaining items get carried over to the next council meeting and to start council comments immediately. Closing comments.
Okay, I will. Yep. Second. Okay. All those other items we can deal with at the next one. A motion to uh move the appointments to the next meeting. The second one's by Troy Kent. Uh
Mr. Chair, quick edit if we can take the public comments first and then go into closing comments. Yes. Okay. I have a question before we keep moving forward. Mr. uh county manager, um you know, probably have an idea of
what's coming. Um, how does this affect your next meeting? Uh, the appointments will not be a problem. Okay. Okay. Uh, all in favor of moving what would that be? 18, 19, and 20 to
the next meeting and starting uh public comments and council comments. Now, uh, all in favor say I. I. No. Opposed. And we had one opposed. Yes, sir. I I thought the the motion was
to start council comments. I did I I made a slight edit there quickly to allow for the public comment to come in first. Okay. Thank you. 21 then. Yes. I'm sorry, Carissa.
Okay. Uh John Nicholson. John Nicholson Beachside. Thank you. Uh, two things on motocross. One, uh, for the staff, our lease with NASCAR, how do we handle the liability because that keeps popping up. Secondly, uh,
with regard to uh, Don on the property that we're considering a motocross that would go there is in the small, the medium, or the large size of the norm. So you go to these events, you see their
size of motocross the properties. Is this a very tiny thing? Is it on average? Is it large or is it something that we could have an international size uh event
large? Okay. Uh then also um I've remarked several times on the size and the value of Daytona Beach in terms of the economic engine for not only the city of Daytona Beach but the uh county. Um I still believe the county should get
involved because every dime that the city loses, the county loses. All right. Uh we've got a CRA. Nine times they've rejected buildings. buildings that produce a million dollars a year in
taxes and they turned them down. All right. The mayor um on his re uh re-election campaign put out a a flyer during his tenure. He spent $60 million
in Midtown, $50 million in downtown, $750,000 on Beachside. Your economic engine got less than a million bucks. All right. They're going to reszone. I'm asking you to pay attention. The zones
that they have now were created in 1970, 55 years ago. All right? They are five years late in doing the resoning. This is the 2020 zoning that they're just now doing. All right?
The zones were changed or modified a little bit in the year 2000. It was all race-based. It took them three hours to move blacks around to create a racebased zoning.
Those are now illegal, but they're going to keep those zones because they want to. All right? Every time they vote and the beat side loses, you all lose. All right? So, I'm asking
you to pay attention because it's money in your pocket. not only money for those of us who live on the beach side, but it's money out of your pocket when the beach side and downtown doesn't prosper because when they prosper, the money comes into the coffer
of the county. Thank you. Thank you. We'll we'll now start with council comments. Jake Johansson, you're first. None. Uh Troy Kent, have a great evening for me. Matt Reinhardt, none, sir.
Danny Robbins, David Santiago. I'm not going to let it go by. Sorry, guys. Um I just uh colleagues um the West Faluchia Hospital Authority, I think we had directed our attorney last time to get some information for us on
status of that and see if we give him guidance on um if we want to take any next steps. Yes. Uh so since the last meeting uh the time to appeal to Florida Supreme Court was after last meeting. We have no record that an appeal was filed. So if
you would um like us to have an agenda item coming up where we can discuss that with you, happy to do that. I move to bring that agenda item as offered by the county attorney. Is there a second? Any questions? All in favor say I.
I. Please agenda it. Any opposed? Please agenda that item. Um I have another thing, Mr. Chairman. Um I just wanted to throw out there, Mr. Chair, um this is Bless you. Oh, yeah. Bless you. Um this is to all of us. I think we are all guilty of
this. Uh today, um and um I think we ought to have another discussion. Not right now probably, but I think we're all guilty of being all over the place. Today was an example of our hearings. We did questions, we did uh debate, we did
discussion, we did cross talk. We all did it. I'm pointing on myself too. I think that's why this meeting got to to this late point that we did today. Um we didn't hold ourselves to to that. And and maybe we can talk to it more. I I would really like for us to see us go
back to questions done, you know, uh and then a public speaking, then motion and debate. But we have to be disciplined in the fact of once we're done with questions, I really think we need to be done with questions. And I
know it sucks because sometimes like darn it, something else came up. I think once we get dis self-disciplined and trained and I'll say better prepared. We'll ask all our questions during the times that we probably should. Um, will I get stuck in that? I I will if I fall out of it. I don't I'm
not afraid of being called out. But I think today was a byproduct of us being all over the place and some of these hearings just went way too long because we were not structured. So, we can talk about that more. I wanted to throw my observations out there and and and self
uh confession. Yeah. And and the other thing is maybe at the next time and when we do talk about this maybe on a meeting that we have uh time uh today we had a presentation um from the the water people. I just call them I forgot the title which is a
great presentation and I don't have a problem with that. I'm glad we put the timer, but I I think we should also discuss should presentations have public comment. It's a presentation to us. We're not voting on anything because that that could add time and our meetings are getting stacked and then
we're rushing very important items that we have to deal with. So, um not trying to shut out the public. When we go to vote on something, we'll certainly have the public piece. I think that's our our narrative. But when we have presentations, I don't think we should have opened it up for all of this
dialogue. It's just not efficient. And I just wanted to see if there's I see heads bobbing that there's a yes. Um and I think we just need to practice that for efficiency. And I'm off my soap box. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Jack Johansson.
Yes, sir. Um, I was going to talk about the presentation piece, but uh, also I I I would ask the the county manager and the chairman who developed the agenda to some extent to to try to speculate what
the what the tough tough items are going to be and and throw them up front so we're not uh um I I know that uh that you all voted on on a little bit on the fire thing and then we heard from fire
and we've heard from EMS. Uh uh that probably would have been more time would have been spent on that during this time if we had time uh uh to address some of the the public comments. So if we can
stack the the contentious stuff up front where we can give it the time it needs uh I think that's important too. Some of it you can't plan for. I understand that. So, thank you. Thank you. Uh Don Dempsey, nothing.
Nothing. And um last uh I was going to pass too, but uh just to answer a couple things that you said, David, I think it is to tonight's not the right time to uh to really hash it out. Uh but yeah, it
was long uh disjointed at times for me. the the questions. I look at it as not just a matter of efficiency but a matter of us all being effective. We do uh questions first and then comment.
Sometimes there's times when as you said every one of us do it come back with a question. Um, I've been allowing that because I think it helps us to to get it right. And if it creates a question in somebody's mind, um, I don't think it
means that we're unprepared or anything else. I just think it's we learn from each other. We learn from speakers. And so I think uh, limited uh, second round of questions is important. Time is time has to be
managed, but it's it's not it's not everything. Um, I I know you don't want to discuss and I'm sure I'll just have one thing if I can. I I don't I don't know if I necessarily mind that the second round of of questions. I think we we're all guilty of the first round of questions
where we're doing debate, commentary, and questions. And I don't think it's fair to the public if the public clearly understands that this is the steps. They're going to ask questions sit right now. Staff will present or whoever it is. Then we'll ask questions. Then we open it up to public. then everybody
knows what posture we're in at the time. So I I know we're all guilty of it. I'm not trying to point any finger at you, Mr. Chair, or anybody else. I think it's healthier to hold everyone to a standard and then the public knows it and we know it. I I think we did that today. I think we
had questions and then we had debate and then we went back and asked some more questions. But it's I'm I'm not going to u debate it with you now. Um the uh if if we want to decide in the future, do we have the public speak in a
presentation? I think it was I think it was exceptional. Um it was a very good presentation and I was glad to get the public input u from people that are involved um and so that the people listening into these meetings could hear
it because it's such a critical need in Valuchia County. I mean, they said it well, our water's in trouble, and I I I'd give them all the time they wanted to to uh to educate us and to educate the public because we need to make some
changes. But with that, 520, if our county manager, we got 10 minutes. I'm sorry. Um, county manager. And that's all right. I have only about 30 minutes of stuff. No, actually, I have nothing. All right. I think Mike might
have something. Deputy County Manager, County Attorney. I addressed mine already, so I have Good evening. Okay, now you can swallow. I have something for Brad. I'm just I'm just kidding. Looking good, Brad.
Okay, we are I do like the jacket. We are adjourned at 5:21. How are you? Thank you, Wendy. Thank you for all your input. Yeah, mute, too.
Thank you very much. That obvious? Well, I just happened to catch you shoving it in your mouth. I hope the camera didn't. Yeah, I know. Wait, right.