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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=NGV6lpL_fVs

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Heat. Heat. Hey. Hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Hey, hey, hey.

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Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey,

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hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five

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minutes. Hey. Hello. You ready? Everything. Yellow. Behind you. Baby. Hey. Hey,

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hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 2 minutes. Come on. Come on. Okay, welcome everybody to the uh June 16th Valuchia County Council meeting. We

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will call the meeting to order at 4:01. There's still a lot of people uh coming in. Uh but we'll start moving ahead. In just a moment, I'll ask you to stand for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. But first, I wanted to uh let you know that if you are a member of

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a faith group who would like to participate in the invocation, you are welcome uh to do so. just send an email to uh uh K green, the letter K green.gov, and she will send you all of the uh

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information to get you uh set up for that. We appreciate all those that participate um this morning. Actually, this is afternoon, isn't it? >> Yes. >> Okay. This it's it's morning somewhere. It's five o'clock somewhere.

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Okay. Today uh we have the Rabbi uh Paul Faulk of the Ariel Congregation uh in Orange City. Uh if you would stand with me for the invocation and then just remain standing for the pledge of

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allegiance. AO MCO our father and king we come before you. We thank you for even the rain. Um we so need it in this community right now. Um we thank you for this piece of creation that we get to enjoy.

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Help us never take that for granted. We also thank you um and we bless you that we live in a country that we get to enjoy things and have a a a very different understanding of freedom than most people in the world have today, much less in our history. Help us never

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take that for granted for what as well. I thank you father for the individuals who stand before us who are serving this community. I ask you continue to give them wisdom and the guidance as they stand up in this place and stand the gap

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um for all of us as a community to guide us and lead us into the time to come. We bless your name. Amen. I also indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you again.

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Kissa, can you call the role, please? >> Mr. Reinhardt >> here. >> Mr. Robbins >> here. >> Mr. Santiago >> here. >> Mr. Dempsey, Mr. Johansson. Mr. Kent >> here. >> Mr. Brower >> here. And we do have a quorum and we

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will continue. Uh we'll start our meeting as we always do with public participation. Uh when I call your name, please come to the podium and try and make sure that there is a microphone in in front of you so that everyone can hear you. There is

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a button on the left hand side of the podium that makes it allows it to go up and down um to facilitate that. And please, when you come up, uh, just tell us, uh, what part of the county you're from. You don't have to give your full

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address for safety reasons, uh, but, uh, tell us what part of the county you're from so that your representative knows that you're here. And you have three minutes, uh, to discuss, uh, anything that pertains to the county. doesn't have to be on the agenda on this part of

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public uh participation, but something that perhaps we could um deal with as a council in the future. So, your comments are welcome. And uh to begin, we have a uh a new speaker before the council,

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John Nicholson. They all know him now. John Nicholson. Unaccustomed as I am to public speaking, I just have a couple of things now. Um, last week I wore a shirt for Deon Springs because Amy uh from Deleon Springs introduced me one time as

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saying, "Well, he's only interested in Daytona Beach." And I thought, well, gee, I thought I mentioned at least once or twice that Daytona Beach was the economic engine of Daytona Beach and Blush County. And apparently it didn't get through because only David has so

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far agreed with me. But I do believe it Daytona Beach is the economic engine. And then I went to a uh first up shelter meeting and I was reminded that Roseanne Tornitor just like LOL. remember uh the dog beach

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Lola and Anthony was sitting in the audience and said, "Oh, we'll front the $100,000. No question." Roseanne, when they were discussing uh an outdoor shelter said, "No problem. I'll donate the $250,000." And she built one. And

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I'm thinking, you know, in the past there were names that contributed greatly to Valuchia County. uh Bill France, Tom Steed, Tiffen Davidson, George Anderson, and now Lel are all passed.

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I wanted to say this several years ago that we don't recognize those people that are really putting it all out for the county. Um there's a gentleman uh who grew up in the area.

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We were trying for 20 years to raise $5 million to redo our park on uh Beach Street. We couldn't seem to get the money. And all of a sudden, he said, "Okay, I'll give $15 million because I want it to look like it was when I was a

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kid." He ended up spending $35 million. That's Hyatt Brown. Gail Liarand. You don't hear much about him, but you see his name on buildings all over Daytona Beach. Glenn Richie,

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wealthy man. I'll always love him because he stepped in when Scarlett Golden died and really moved Daytona Beach greatly. There's my Osini. You'll see his name on the building. He's very active in the Republican party.

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Nancy Logan is still alive and still donating like mad. There's Jim France and Lisa Kennedy. You don't hear much about them, but they're always helping. So, I just like to take a minute to thank all of those people

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who are not only for Daytona Beach, but for all of Lucy County who are putting their money to good use. I want to thank them publicly because I don't think they get enough acclaim. >> Good words, John. It's great way to start the meeting. Uh Deborah Dudley.

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Good afternoon, council. Deborah Dudley, Dean, Florida. Truck plazas play a crucial role in our nation's supply chain. However, due to their 247 operation, high turnover, and near total anonymity, they have also

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become significant hubs for two of the world's most detrimental illicit enterprises, human trafficking and drug trafficking. When illicit activity establishes a foothold in a truck plaza, it inevitably

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expands outward. Neighboring properties bear immediate consequences, becoming staging grounds for drug use, fencing stolen goods, and prostitution rings. Local residential streets experience an increase in

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transient loitering, human waste, and noise complaints, compromising public safety, and depreciating property values. Simultaneously, retail properties face an immediate surge in property crime, vehicle

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breakins, and aggressive loitering as individuals seek quick cash to fund addictions. These activities impose a significant financial burden on local business owners as increased security measures are required.

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Once again, I acknowledge the significance of the trucking industry to our economy. However, with the Florida Department of Transportation building truck stops near the I4 I95 interchange, a truck plaza just 9 miles down the road

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on a two-lane service road, a budding Lake Winnam, and a 55 plus senior community appears disingenuous. The upcoming request for a special exception to zoning regulation will require careful consideration.

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The most prudent course of action is to reject the proposal for a truck plaza and instead support commercial enterprises that will benefit local residents without burdening service roads with semi-truck traffic and harming our local ecosystems and

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increasing crime rates. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Mike Ponyattowski and you'll be followed by Gail Grenzig. Good afternoon, council. Mike Pittowski Mook Farms Village. Let's talk about upcoming property tax reform. It's

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coming in November. We're not sure how the voters are going to vote, but between 60 and 80% support it. And if it passes in November, government is going to get a big dose of OEMIC. You're going to need to cut spending big time. $100 million in Blush County. Round numbers.

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So, it's up to you guys right now to work with staff to identify those cuts. Some very painful that you're going to have to make today. Get it done soon so you know what to do once the vote is tallied in November. And if it does not

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pass, you've done a great exercise and you've identified places to cut. So I implore you, if it does not pass, look at the cuts you've identified, the ways you can save money for the taxpayers and make some of those cuts and save the

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taxpayers money. In 1992, Save Our Homes was passed. I believe it became effective in 1995. That was the first shot across the bow by homeowners that property taxes were being going through the roof. It hasn't stopped. In 2017, I

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believe there was $45 billion in taxable value in Valuchia County. In 2025, there was $108 billion in taxable value in Valuchia County. That's a big jump in 10 years. So, is that real money? Is that real inflation? Or is that just

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government wanting to spend our money? So, we need to take a good hard look and you need to take a big hard look, the county manager needs to take a big hard look and staff really needs to dig deep and look at where they can cut. And again, if property tax reform doesn't

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pass, you've identified ways to save us money. And that's your job. And we all want that because everyone out there is struggling. Senior citizens are struggling to stay in their homes as their property taxes increase and they have fixed incomes. The young who want

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to get a leg up and buy their first home can't do it because things are so expensive. Interest rates, property taxes, insurance rates. There are so many things you can do to help those firsttime home buyers in Valuchia County by looking at where you can cut and actually making the cut and the hard

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decisions to save our homes, to save Florida, and to make sure that we can affordably provide the services that are essential to government. Thanks, and I hope you do the right thing. Gail Grenzig and you will be followed by Wendy Weiss.

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>> Good afternoon. My name is Dr. Gail Grenzig. I'm a licensed mental health uh therapist and a university graduate school professor. During the last meeting, I discussed the impact of noise, light, and vibrations from the perspective of nuisance laws and county

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ordinances. This week I would like to continue this discussion but from a mental health perspective. The EPA, Harvard Medicine, and the World Health Organization all state that persistent vibrations, noise and light pollution

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are more than a nuisance is a significant health hazard. Here's some of what the research says. Older adults experience greater and more prolonged stress hormone responses to environmental stressors due to age related changes in what's called the HPA

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axis. And this this system, this axis is something inside of us that releases hormones such as cortisol and adrenaline in reaction to what's happening in the environment. And some of you might have heard like a fight orflight response. That's basically what we're talking about. But for seniors who are exposed

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to persistent environmental stressors, this system is working in overdrive and it eventually fails resulting in emotional dysregulation, anxiety, PTSD, depression, mood disorders, cognitive impairment, and there's a correlation to

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Alzheimer's. Anecdotally, I will tell you that my neighbors are experiencing increased stress, increased anxiety, and increased depression at just the thought of this project. You have to realize that they're seeing their life savings

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and their dreams about a forever home becoming a forever disaster. And this is why FDOT and their truck plaza report specifically stated that it is incompatible to place truck plazas next to retirement homes and retirement

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communities. And if you look throughout the whole state of Florida, there are none privately or publicly owned that are placed next to a retirement community. The World Health Organization and Columbia University have stated that seniors are a high-risisk group. They

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are impacted more than others. They have fragile sleep patterns. They are more susceptible to the adverse effects of environmental noise. There's a 30% increase in depression risk. Insufficient sleep increases negative emotional responses and decreases

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positive emotional responses, making it harder to cope with daily living and decision-m. The Valuchia land code states that all non-residential development adjacent to residential zoning must demonstrate compatibility defined as avoiding

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adverse impacts related to noise, lighting, traffic, and general welfare. Remember, we were here first. Let me be clear. This development is detrimental and incompatible to seniors, a high-risisk group as stated by the state

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of Florida, recognized federal and global health organizations, research universities, and the county comprehensive plan. Thank you. >> Thank you, Wendy Whis. And you'll be followed by Crystal Wells. >> Good afternoon. I'm Dr. Wendy Weiss. I'm

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a board certified family physician and a resident of Crestwind Dand. I'm also a survivor of bilateral breast cancer and I'd like to speak to you today regarding the health implications of a proposed t truck plaza adjacent to Creswind.

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My many health issues were related to the close proximity of truck plazas are caused by traffic related air pollution and noise exposure. The bodily impacts of these factors are multiple and I only have time for just a few today. Respiratory. This is obvious. A truck plaza is a concentration of heavyduty

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diesel emissions generating substantial amounts of a particulate matter known as PM2.5 as well as black carbon which we know as soot and lots and lots of others. Exposure to these admissions is linked to increased asthma, allergies, reduced lung function and worsening of COPD.

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Cardiovascular. A study of in 2019 estimated air pollution was responsible for 6.7 million deaths worldwide. And of those, 3.4 million deaths were due to cardiovascular disease that was caused directly by air pollution exposure.

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Air pollution is the fourth highest risk factor for cardiovascular disease. It's higher than high cholesterol. It's higher than obesity. It's higher than high blood sugar. Furthermore, air pollution contributes to a decrease in life expectancy by about 20 months. This is almost the same as tobacco use, which

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is 22 months. And cancer, as you might expect, I was interested to read about this. In 2013, the ARC, the International Agency for Research on Cancer, designated outdoor air pollution in general as a group one carcinogen.

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Group one is defined as known to cause cancer in humans. The I ARC also designated particulate matter PM2.5 specifically as a group one carcinogen. Exposure to PM2.5 has been linked specifically to lung cancer while other diesel admissions have been linked to

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breast cancer. In addition to traffic related air pollution, noise exposure from truck plazas is also a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. One semi-truck diesel engine idles between 80 and 100 dB. Chronic exposure to that level of noise increases the risk of

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cardiovascular disease by 20 to 404 40%. Due in large part to the increase in the stress hormones that Gail just spoke about. Imagine the impact of multiple trucks idling 24 hours a day. Dand is an active 55 plus adult community. We're considered at risk because of our age.

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Others have pre-existing cardiovascular and pulmonary disease. So this isn't a nimi situation but rather a health emergency for those of us who may find ourselves in close proximity to a truck plaza. Therefore we ask that for the health of the residents of Creswind to land that you as the county commission

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support our position that the special exception application for a truck plaza be denied. Thank you. >> Thank you Crystal Wells. And you'll be followed by Karen Anderson. Good afternoon, council members. My name

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is Crystal Wells. I live outside the city city limits of the land. Thank you to the council members who have met with us. We have learned much from you about the opportunities and the challenges that are before us. Also, we appreciate the time that county staff took to meet

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with representatives from Dand Little League. Their willingness to listen to our concerns and needs was appreciated. During those discussions, we learned that decisions regarding field rental cost ultimately rest with you. We respectfully ask that reducing the cost of county field rentals for youth sports

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organizations be considered a priority. Today, many volunteer coaches are personally paying out of pocket to rent practice fields because there simply are not enough available to our growing program. The land little league also incurs significant costs when renting county fields for games. These expenses

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place an unnecessary burden on volunteers and families who are already giving their time and resources to support our local youth. We have compared to um field rental rates in neighboring communities and surrounding counties. Residents are able to rent

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fields for approximately $10 per hour or $20 per hour when lights are required. We pay more than double that rate in Valuchia County. We encouraged the council to review these rates and consider whether the county's rental structure can be adjusted to better support local youth. Secondly, during

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our meeting with county staff, they mentioned the possibility of the old landfill on Plymouth Avenue that may have potential for a future youth sports complex. We understand that any future use of this property would ultimately may require council approval. Today, I am not asking you for funds. I'm not

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asking you to transfer the land to us or even approve any specific project. Instead, I am just asking the council to support further exploration of this opportunity and direct county staff to work with the city of Dand and Dand Little League to determine whether this

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property could be a viable long-term solution for youth sports in our community. At this stage, we simply want to open the door to evaluating the possibilities. We recognize that future projects must be evaluated in light of property tax revenue and other budget considerations.

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However, we also know there may be opportunities through grants, sponsorships, private companies, and public funding as well as well as community support to help make these developments for youth sports a reality and to help maintain them.

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Respectfully, I cannot stay for the remainder of the meeting because my children need to be in two different places this evening. However, I hope the council will consider providing direction to the staff regarding these two requests. Thank you again for your time and your willingness to listen.

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>> Karen Anderson and you'll be followed by Rosemary Laam. >> Good evening. I want to talk about the end of Marsh Road in Dand. That's where I live north Dand out at that area. And if any of you are from

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this area and travel Marsh Road at all, you it's beautiful. But being from Dand my entire life, it's changed over the years. And now we're faced with large amounts of traffic at

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high speeds. We have semi vehicles cutting. Instead of coming through town, they cut through Marsh Road. Um this morning I was greeted with my trash can, my mailbox, and five other mailboxes in

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a row taken out by a speeder coming out of the corner off of EFG Orchids. If you're familiar with the land, you know where that is. That's and it's become a raceway. And I would just like to speak on behalf of myself, several of us in

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the area, speed bumps, just a few speed humps to slow it down, keep the semis off the road, and you know, kind of bring back a little bit of the beauty that Dand has to offer for

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those of us who like to take slow drives and not fast ones. Thank you for your time. Thank you. And Rosemary, as you approach uh Katherine Pante, you will follow Rosemary.

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Chair Brower, Council, my name is Rosemary Laam. I live in Southwest Dand. The proposed Homestead exemption ballot initiative to be voted on in November has caused some heated debate. Our legislators believe this decision should be placed in the hands of the voters. It

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is now the responsibility of the voters to educate themselves about exactly how this proposed amendment will directly affect each person's everyday life. One of the entities at risk for defunding due to this homestead exemption initiative is the library system. The

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Valuchia County Public Library system is composed of 14 regional and community branch locations distributed throughout the county's major cities and communities. Technology services are provided including public access to computers and

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Wi-Fi office equipment including printing, photocopying, document scanning, and outgoing fax services. There is ELAB instruction which provides basic tech tutoring courses to aid residents with computing skills. There

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is digital and material borrowing involving traditional media checkouts, Wi-Fi hotspots, and Valuchia reads online apps. There are also community support programs. There are inbranch social workers with professional social service

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personnel standing on site to assist citizens in accessing shelter, health and state welfare aid. There is a law library access. There are seed libraries with complimentary distribution providing regional flower, agricultural

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and herb seeds for community agriculture. There is Acuity business resources with premium organizational asset databased tailored directly to support local small businesses.

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Educational and intergenerational support with early childhood literacy, continued lifelong learning, safe afterchool environments. The library provides civic infrastructure and social inclusion.

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There is the third place effect providing a vital non-commercial public space where people can gather and interact. There is community integration bringing diverse populations together under one roof connecting vulnerable

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populations to on-site social workers, housing resources and public health programs. And there is civic engagement serving as trusted neutral ground for local public forums, voting precincts, neighborhood association meetings, and

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community nonprofit events. A library serves as a critical community anchor that produces measurable social, economic, and educational benefits. Its presence alters the community dynamic across several key dimensions. And to lose a library would be to lose the

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heart of a community. Thank you. Thank you, Katherine Pante. And you will be followed by Roy Matson. Good afternoon, council. Today, I am bringing to your attention yet another Florida county with a voter referendum

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requirement, Penllis County. This requirement is found in section 2.07 07 of the Penllis County Charter titled Environmental Lands subsections D and E. Penllis County also requires voter approval for leases exceeding 10 years.

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When will Valuchia County staff attorney stop insisting that a voter referendum protections cannot be applied to safeguard Valuchia Forever conservation lands from being sold or converted to other uses. After all, it is only their opinion. These are facts. Multiple

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Florida counties and municipalities already have these protections in place. Florida charter counties have the constitutional authority to require voter approval before conservation land can be sold or repurposed. The issue is not whether it can be done legally. It

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is being done legally by three counties and five municipalities. The issue is whether the county is willing to relinquish its unilateral authority to sell or repurpose land that the residents paid for and voted to protect through self-imposed taxation. The

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people who funded these conservation lands deserve to have a voice in their future. Relinquishing your authority to the electorate is not considered a strict prohibition. It is a procedural guard rail. The residents of Valuchia County paid for these lands. The county

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merely holds title and trust on behalf of the public. Valuchia County residents who invested in preserving these lands deserve to have the final say if they are ever proposed for sale, conversion, or change to another use. If our elected representatives truly believe in

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protecting Valuchia Foreverlands, they should have no objection to allowing voters to decide via a referendum. Thank you. Roy Matson. >> Good afternoon, council. Uh, I'd like for all to take a second and remember

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Tammy Joe Baker who was killed at the Dot Beach. Uh, I also want to give Clayton from the county and Chipwood a credit for dealing with this because this was a very difficult situation. Clayton put a lot

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of hours in trying to communicate with the public. Uh I've done my research and looked at this in different ways and one of my suggestion and it going to require the county council to look at this. The equipment that we put in the last year

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or so with the arm is a good idea in some ways. But now that somebody had gotten killed in a hurry, how about we consider looking at tag readers do sunb and all them have it where a car

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can drive 70 mph down the road get their tag. Let's put an arch just like we have at international speedway at each one and put their approach on it. the Datton approach because Tammy Joe being killed would be nice to see a memorial set up

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there for her on by the honor of this council. But on top of that, we are able to read the tag when they can read the tag for 10 miles an hour. It takes the safety of the people on A1A from getting in the wreck because the traffic keep

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flowing. At the same time, it only required a few less people to run these approaches. Of all the approaches that are the most dangerous, Granada, Seab, International, Silverbe, and Dant

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basically, if you live in Lima like me, when it's summertime, we don't call it Lima Beach no more. We call it Orlando Beach because Orlando people just take it up. that could be that we will have to come up with a plan for over there.

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But the north side, another thing I like to bring up, I'm very proud of Jeff Brower for what he been trying to do. Let's see if we can open up ISB to Seabbury to allow the businesses to make money by allow beach driving there and

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move that area from Granada to Cardinal where Santo spent most of the day towing everybody out because of the red sand. If uh the wildlife commission for federal will allow us to move that zone

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up there, let's do that because people get stuck up there. It's nice that we have a dog beach up there now. We have it in Daytona. But a little bit more revenue in that area will help all the businesses go a long way. And I believe if you look at the tag reader, it will

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be something that will favor us a lot of money because milshack have already been replaced because of mother natur. You're welcome to reach out to me at any time. You all know me personally and I greatly appreciate your hard work. >> Thank you very much for your comments.

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Uh Gary Singleton. Is Gary here? I see movement. Uh Gary, you'll be followed by Michelle Udder. And to close us out will be Wendy Anderson. >> I'm Gary Singleton, a Valuchia County resident.

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Um, not one of the four amendments serve Valuchia County citizens or fix a problem worthy of a charter amendment. Glaringly absent is a clear is a charter amendment banning AI data centers being

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built in Valuchia County. An amendment we the people can vote for knowing it will protect the citizens of this county. AI data centers will bring catastrophic consequences to the people while providing immense profit for a very select few. It will be Valuchia

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County citizens who will suffer catastrophic consequences. We will be forced to pay for the substantial power grid infrastructure improvements. We will be forced to implement emergency programs to supplement our source of drinking water, the aquafer. And it will

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increase the risk of our properties being flooded. Thank you, Michelle. Letter, how are you doing today? I know you've missed me. I've been at a lot of doctor's appointments lately and I've been bothering a lot of people. So, I

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hope I won't be bothering you today. being vaccine injured especially in the Valuchia County state of Florida being ignored by our government. Governor D Santis Latapo I have put in many complaints and I have a um under

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the sunshine law 119 I have internal investigations done and as someone that's vaccine injured you don't want to put yourself out there but I'm the only one so far that shows that I'm sh I'm making spike in my body that does not come out no matter what kind of detox

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supplement you take it's 1,981 days it's pushing me into cancer all times s and I have more cardiac issues and more. So, I'm counting my blessing and hoping that I can be here to be a thorn in everyone's side. And I know you

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love it when I come here. This has pushed me after losing everything and my medical bills and being erased from the government and my city, my county, my everywhere. I've pushed it has pushed me into putting my own prosay in. It's on the federal

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dockets at the federal court where I am suing Kennedy Badacheria. Well, McCary's gone, whoever has taken his place. It is in Pacer. You can look it up. I put it in in May 14th. And so far, it's going

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well. I'm hoping it's not going to be dismissed. But people need to know that my dying, I'm trying to speak out and help for future generations. And I hope by putting myself out there that it'll save somebody. And I hope one day

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somebody will remind will remember me and also have a special day for me. If not, then I will be haunting a lot of people. With all of that being said, I know there's a lot going on and you've done a lot for me. But I also want to

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remind you that during the pandemic, there was a lot of money that was for the Slesh Fund. And I know that I've written you all letters and you've seen it because I care about you. I'm not going to say what I was going to say, but there was a lot of spending and

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people depended on that money to keep their lights on. $41 million were spent in internal revenue replacement, 3 million for internal public sector payroll and also the the county

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fairgrounds. All that money was spent. And there's a lot of people like me that have absolutely nothing. And there's people, another pandemic is going to come. And I just want you to realize where this money needs to go to and how you need to help people because there's

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so many people like me that need your help and it's our lives are worth more than just a building standing there. >> Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Wendy Anderson. Good afternoon. I'm Wendy Anderson. I

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live in District 1. We are now squarely in the middle of storm season. Meteorologists tell us we are experiencing a super El Nino this year. So whether or not we have a named storm or not, it is going to be a wet

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one. Are we ready? 2022 and 2024 were life-changing for individuals and for the county. Many of us heard at city commissions and this county council at this podium hundreds and hundreds of

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individuals who lost everything in those storms that year that both of those years. Are we ready? Transform 386 has received almost a half billion dollars or the county has received almost a half billion dollars into a program we've

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branded transform 386 that is being used for buyouts of homes and for improvements of infrastructure. A lot of those projects are not yet in the ground yet. Are we ready? Has the county spent any of its storm

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water money to clean out all of the canals that it is responsible for maintaining? I would like an update on this. One example is Deep Creek Diversion Canal out in Ostein. I heard some from some residents who live out there

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yesterday who are very concerned because they still see lots of trees down in and across the canal and they regularly experience several inches or feet of water on their properties. Is the county

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ready for this season storms? Mosquito canals throughout the eastern portion of our county are also the county's responsibility. Most of these canals are und sized for the amount of water they currently are expected to drain from increasingly um large impervious

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surfaces in our increasingly developed landscape. Has the county maintain those? Before we squeeze all of the blood out of next year's budget turnup, I ask, have we allocated enough funds

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for maintenance of our storm water infrastructure and in particular our canals? Have we prepared our canals for this season's rainfall? I'd like an update on that perhaps in closing comments today or some other time. Thank you.

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Thank you all for your comments. Um, this what I'm about to say should be held to uh closing comments, but I'm afraid that um Michelle won't uh be able to stay that long. And I know that this

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council agrees with me. Michelle, you don't bother us when you come here. We are truly uh sorry for what you go through and I know that the staff here has worked really closely with you and

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and helped wherever we can. Um should there have been different spending things. Thank you for bringing that to our attention with federal funds, COVID funds, but you are um you're always welcome to come here and

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uh you're in our prayers and and thank you for standing up and being a fighter for all of those that are too weak to do it, physically weak. Thank you. Okay. Um that takes us to uh item one,

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the approval of the agenda. And before I ask for a motion, I just want to bring to the council's attention that one item, item C, will be uh postponed until uh some future date unknown at this time

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at u at that person's or that organization's request. And then there is a a good change on item B uh for the airport where funding went up from u $500,000 to $600,000 and two grants. I

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just wanted to make sure everybody was aware of that. So with that elimination of C, the change in on B and the consent agenda, can I get approval? >> Motion chairman. Motion to approve the agenda as presented with the changes the chairman just mentioned. >> Second.

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>> Thank you. Motion by Troy Kent and second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any questions? All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? And the agenda is approved six to zero.

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My Okay, that takes us to the consent agenda. Does any uh council member have an item that they would like to have pulled for a vote? Yes, chairman. I'd like to pull several items. Items N as

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in Nancy. Item U. And then just for to discuss, not to pull for a vote. Item O. >> Okay. O for discussion. N and you for a vote. Uh, Councilman Rob, >> I'm sorry, >> Councilman Robbins.

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>> I had item N, but it looks like uh Troy for a vote also. >> Okay. >> Motion to approve the consent agenda. Chairman, absent items N and U. >> Okay. All right. Before we vote, we have uh

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three members of the public who would like to speak on the consent agenda. Uh when I call your name and you come up to speak, please tell us the the item. Uh I think the first one is for item S. Gary Singleton.

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Gary, are you here? Oh, they're all three for Gary Singleton. Do you want to speak on items S, items U, and item double A? >> Yes. >> Yeah, they're all on the consent agenda, and that's what we're getting ready to

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vote on. >> I had you as a second. We all got our god. Okay. All right. Gary Singleton. Um, item S.

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When facing the loss of property tax revenue, the immediate reaction should be to review every line of the budget, prioritize essential services and capital improvements, and provide the greatest benefit and list those budget items that can be cut with the least

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impact on Valuchia County citizens. An example that I'll use more than once would be to ask how our quality of life would be impacted if the citizens of Valuchia County had to live without a motocross track. It is only after budget cuts have been

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made should you be searching for new ways to reach into the pockets of Valuchia County citizens to fund both essential services, infrastructure, and projects that we could most certainly live without. It should not have taken loss of property tax revenue to force

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you to tighten your belts. But it is what it took and it is where we are at now. Okay. Item U. Oh, this is the lean red. Okay. In 2007,

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a lean was placed on the property owned by Robert by John Wilbur for $1,500. In 2008, a second lean was incurred by JRW Enterprises, a group of investor LLC, a group of investors for $4,500.

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Those two leans totaling $6,000 were ignored by the owners for 19 years. Now, the current property owner, Vero Atlantic LLC, another group of investors who did not cause the conditions that led to the original enforcement action,

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but still purchased a tax lean default sale in 2017, 9 years ago, with a $19,000 lean, has requested a reduction of the amount of money owed to Valuchia County citizens.

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That's 19,000 now. What was it nine years ago when they purchased the property in 2017? One citizen and two corporations chose to ignore two leans now totaling $19,000 for 19 years. Now, the current corporate

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own corporate owner wants a reduction in what he owes to Valuchia County citizens. Of course, staff recommends giving the debt owed to forgiving the debt owed to Valuchia County citizens. Of course, a majority of this council is expected to show favor for a corporation

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at the expense of your citizens, the people who are owed that money. That is how a pro-development, procorporation culture within our government expresses itself. Valuchia County citizens should be the first consideration.

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We although we are now not even a part of the equation and that ends that uh this will be item aa capital project schedule.

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It should not be taken it should not take the prospect of loss revenue to force an examination of each and every project's cost benefit ratio. Each and every project should be reviewed and evaluated as to the impact of cancelling

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that project would bring. An example of that would be what would be the impact of having to live in Vuchia County, you guessed it, without a motocross track. Again, when faced with loss of property tax revenue, the immediate response by a

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responsible council would be to review each and every project for its essential value. List in order the of essential to public safety and welfare, which improvements will provide the best value for citizens and which projects will

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provide the least essential value to the fewest citizens. It should be clear which pet project I would like to see for cut first from the budget, but how many others will go unnoticed. Okay, we have a a motion and a second on

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the floor to approve the consent agenda uh except for items N and UU which Mr. Singleton just spoke on. Uh they will be voted on separately and then after the vote uh we can discuss item O if that's

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uh satisfactory with you. Councilman Kent, you wanted discussed. >> It is satisfactory. Yes. >> Okay. Uh, all in favor of the consent agenda except for items N and U, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Mr. Brower, can you confirm who made the

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second? >> Uh, Vice Chair, >> I'm the only one that heard it. I think you might have been thinking it. Um, okay. Let's just Are you here for which item?

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>> N, sir. Okay. Go ahead with then. >> Can I can I start? Chairman. >> Sure. >> Just he doesn't we haven't talked about it. He has no idea what my what my issue is or where I'm going with it. >> I don't know that I have an issue, Dr. Burbal. I I very well quite possibly

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will vote yes on this. This was it was just the sticker shock, I guess, for me of almost a half a million dollars for playground equipment. But as I dove into this a little deeper, is this more of a limitless playground for kids with disabilities so that they can

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participate with their peers on very similar playground equipment? And I asked that just because I have my fingerprints all over one in Orman Beach next to the sports complex and it's wildly popular and it's really a

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heartwarming thing to see kids with disabilities being able to use the exact same equipment as others. So that's my question. Is that why this price tag is so bloated and outrageous for playground equipment? So, the the equipment there's

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also a the exit door that we're using requires a ADA sidewalk that kind of rounds a retention pond. So, that's added cost to the project. But yes, certainly the all-inclusive playground costs more money. Um, >> Dr. Burbal, thank God. I thought I heard

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you just say that there are some fail safes in place to keep kids away from a retention pond. Is that what you said? >> Yes, sir. Absolutely. Um but this is um again all-inclusive playground. It shows in the agenda item I heard we heard that from council previously that that's a priority. Uh it shows you how they are

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all inclusive and work together so kids of all abilities can um work together. It's also 85% grant funded this entire project. >> Yeah. And that comes direct echo funds. Is that correct? >> Echo echo and CDB federal CDBG dollars.

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>> Okay. Okay. Um who whose fingerprints are on this from staff? you and Mr. Bailey. >> Uh, actually, um, Miss Kohley Lucindic Cole, our library director. >> Yeah, nice nice work on this. Um, I'm not crazy about the price tag, but I am crazy about what it will afford our kids

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in Valuchia. No more questions for me. Chairman, >> would you like to make a motion? >> Do you have a question or a comment? >> Both. >> Both. Okay. Go ahead, Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Brad. And and I'll I'll echo the same uh as as Mr. Kent. I was a

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little shocked too with this with the sticker price on some of this stuff, but I understand why. Um do we have what's there now and and what have it what are its limits? So it it's a parking it's a parking area that's not uh truly designated as a parking area. There's

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some concrete. Um but this is a interesting story. this lot that was bought um directly behind so directly to the east of the library was bought by the friends of the library in the early 2000s um for future parking and potential playyard.

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Okay. And I was just going through it and and and like Mr. Kent had some questions about this and I was looking at some of the I was going down like you know the pirate ship, the dolphin, all this stuff. All good stuff. Um, my only request is double check some of these

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and triple check them. There's two signs in there that we can probably make in house, but they're charging us about $800 a piece. I know that's chump change in the grand scheme, but that's an indicator, too, that there may be some. >> So, please just just check on that. >> Absolutely. >> The same thing can be accomplished

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literally with a 4x4 post that gives like CO2 emissions for the equipment, you know, in 5 through 12. >> So, I don't think we need to be, you know, you get the point. I think it's good we're using echo grants uh council, but this is one of the things too that I was going to bring up, you know, until

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this tax um referendum um settles and or we see where everything settles just to be mindful uh of this, but I don't see how we can say no um especially if it's coming from grants and whatnot. So, thank you, Brad. >> Yes, sir. Chairman, motion to approve

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item N on the consented >> second. A motion to approve is made by Councilman Kent and a second by Councilman Robbins. Any other questions or discussion? All in favor say I. >> I.

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>> Item N. Any opposed? And item N is pass six to zero. And then uh we have item U. >> Chairman, can I go ahead and jump in on this one as well? always do.

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>> So, I don't like these. Just going to put that out there for everybody. I don't I don't like lean reductions. Um I I feel like the neighbors that had to deal with the isore deserve something. Um but I have a couple questions. First of all, where

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did the 12% interest per year come from? And maybe that's a legal question. I'm not sure, Mr. Dyer, if if you or one of the other staff members can jump in. But you know the gentleman whom I don't know spoke earlier on item U this lean reduction the total amount is $19,7427

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there were two leans one in 2007 one in 2008 the new owner was asking for a total reduction from all of the interest and just wanted to pay the two leans and staff um very smartly

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decided to say, "No, we're going to follow what we've been doing, but instead of paying the full lean, we're going to ask you of 6,000 and some change to pay 9,342." So, where did this 12% come from? Chris

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Ryan, assistant county attorney. I believe it's in chapter 58 of our code. >> Okay. And then who who is Brian Nickel? And I asked because they're coming to us for a lean reduction. Who is Brian Nickel and Vero Atlantic 2 LLC?

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Uh Brian Nickel is the representative for Vlank 2. They purchased the property, I believe it was from Tarpon 4 LLC, which was essentially a holding company. Um they own a number of properties throughout the county that they've purchased usually through taxdeed sales and then essentially in the past uh I've noticed the history of

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them letting them lapse. So, this new company, uh, the representative came in front of CLCA, asked for reduction and said they want to bring the property back to productive use within the county again. >> And and what what use do they want to bring the property up to? I'm I'm just curious, what do they what do they want to do? >> I believe they want to build on it, but

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they didn't get no specifics. >> No specific. And this is up in my neck of the woods up in Orman Beach, 1971 Carolina Avenue, Orman Beach, off of Nova Road. Um, so we're not sure what they're going to build. I don't blame them for asking for the reduction. I

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just council I'm not I'm not crazy about reducing I mean this has been going on 1920 years and uh the neighbors have had to deal with let's just call it what it is nonsense they had to deal with living next to nonsense for a long time and

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their taxpayers just like the rest of us are unless somebody can convince me up here to reduce this down to 9342 I am going to be a no vote on this because I think the residents of Valuchia County deserve the full $19,7427,

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but my mind's open. One of you may say something up here that's going to change my mind and convince me to do it otherwise. Um, this has been going on for 20 years. Is is Mr. Brian Nickel and Vero Atlantic 2 LLC are they are they backing out of this deal if they don't

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get what they want here? is how is that detrimental to the county? >> Okay. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Mr. Kent, I'm not going to try and convince you out of it. I'm I'm with you. I I sat on a code enforcement board for the city of Daytona, worked for code enforcement for

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the city of New Smyrna prior to becoming a council prior after that other place I worked that I won't mention. David always takes offense to that. So, um, but no, I'm I'm with you now. We've had situations like this in the past with Daytona where we had individuals that walked in and bought a piece of

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property. They were made aware of it. Everybody's made aware of it when they purchase a property. Everybody is. So, you're fully aware of what you're walking into and what you're purchasing. Again, don't blame them for asking. Nothing venture, nothing gained, but until I I don't see them here, are they?

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>> No. Okay. So, they're not even here. So, um, how important is it? I'll go back with what you said. what's important to you is important to me. They're not here. So, um I take uh I know that it was mentioned by Mr. Singleton earlier that we would probably agree to this and

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I I I beg to differ. We we don't. So, and and I take exception to that, but uh uh we don't. And so there's two of at least that will be a no on this. Thank you, Chair. >> Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I I sit

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here and think about process Troy, right? And um I thought about this too and I first default into the angry somewhat why is this person even asking you know for this and then when you dive deeper in it right there's precedent. So

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that means that we've sent the message in the past that what the staff recommendation is is what we've done in the past. So there's an expectation somewhat to make the ask based on historical performance of this council. So um you know I think back at that. So,

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we've signaled this as a body, maybe not us, but the council in in in the past. Um, so that gives me a little bit of a pause. Um, and to our staff, Mr. Chair, if I may ask a question. Um, the the

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request to ask for a reduction, is that a ordinance uh or is that a state law where the person has that capability of doing it? >> That isn't our ordinances, sir. So our ordinances say you can ask for this reduction and we've acted on it in

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the past. So, if this C I would suggest this. If this council wants to take a hard stance that we don't do any reductions, then maybe we want to change our ordinance and send a clear message to anyone in the future, whether they

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existing property owner or someone who's going to buy a property in the future that has leans on it, knows that under no circumstances this there a policy for them to ask for a reduction if that's the position we want to take because that's kind of sort of what I heard, right? And I'm kind of like I don't know

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where I'm at with that because I'd like to hear more. So, you know, and then let's think about why fines are in place. Fines are in place to get people in compliance. That's really the threat. That's the hammer, right? And the government's role should ultimately be how do we get someone into compliance to

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follow our code and to to eliminate the the eyesore or the nuisance, whatever the violation is. Um, so, um, I I I'm split on this guys mainly because of the president and our ordinance,

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but I'm open to the discussion also. We want to change the ordinance going forward. You remember, you know me pretty well. I'm a pro I'm a process guy and I don't care the name of the owner, folks. Michael, whatever. I I treat everybody the same regardless who owns it. I try to shy away from the name of

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the owner and I'm not trying to beat up on you, my friend. I I try to stay blind of that. Um I'm not an attorney or a judge, so I like to treat that, you know, that justice is blind, right? That that concept. Um and then I think you you're fair to everyone and apply it to

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everyone equally. So I I don't know where I stand, my friend, for those main reasons, but I'd like to hear more. >> Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. That's an interesting I think there's two sides to this this this whole thing, David. um if they're going to buy it, they're most

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likely going to improve it. If I buy something, I'm not going to let it sit there and rot and continue to de deteriorate and improve fines and and be negative on my community. I'm sure there's other people out there that are not like that, but I think we can all say that that we're probably pretty good stewards with that. Um

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there's two options here really. Either uh change the ordinance, which I don't know if I could support uh because there's always exceptions to policy. You know, you can't go past any property in Valuchia County, including government property, and not find something wrong with it or something to complain about or something that's not in code. It is

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what it is. But there's two options here. we can discourage people from getting involved in buying these properties and cleaning them up uh and uh let it um remain in poor shape uh degrade a neighborhood uh continue to be

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an eyes sore or work with the business community or people that want to invest. Imagine if imagine if we didn't give breaks on Beach Street. Imagine if we didn't give some incentives or some leniency or exception to policy on A1A.

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It would still be like it would be 30 40 years ago in that chain. So there's there's I think we have to look a little bit past the coming down there's a time and a place for for a heavy hand the government come down with a heavy hand. So uh we can either let it continue be

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an eyesore um not collect uh our maximum amount of potential or taxes on it or we can work with uh whoever the new investor is um which I don't think we should punish uh sometimes you know for the actions of the prior. So I think we

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should should be careful with what kind of future presidents we uh we put here. I'm okay with the nine 9,000 some odd dollars. Uh if they're going to put it um on the tax roles and we're going to have some new uh new people in there, uh

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I think they should have a fair shot. So yeah, I'll be a yes. >> County Manager George Recten Walt. >> Yeah, just trying to add a little history. Uh this came uh from previous councils. Uh and Mr. Robbins is right on

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point for where it came from. We had a backlog of properties at various times that sit and if they just wait on the lean and the interest builds, they become almost un, you know, unsellable, unmovable. And it was, I think, a tool

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that was put forth uh to try and move along some of these properties. And uh the formula that they brought forth to you was something that was approved at that time to make sure that we got our money out of it if we had to demolish or if we had to do any kind of work on it.

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That that part stayed and then I believe the flexibility uh was in the area of of the penalty and interest. So, uh, again, if, uh, council wants to take a different stance and change that ordinance, uh, that that's

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fine with us, but I just want to give a little history of why it came around because you had properties that sat and sat and sat um, for a generation possibly and then someone would actually, you know, want to move it, but they'd say, I I can't

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now with with all the costs and stuff that are on it. So, that's it. Councilman Kent, >> Chairman, I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's one of the reasons I love uh local government and politics is because we get to hear from the people

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that put us in these rented seats and we get to hear from each other. And uh and David, I always enjoy your insight into into things, but you know, the ordinance says I believe you can reduce. Doesn't say you must reduce or you will reduce. You can reduce.

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And you know, I'm not saying that 100% of the time I will always be a hardliner on it, but I guess I'll public say 99.9% of the time I'm going to be a pretty hardliner on these things. Um, the county had to incur a cost for this in

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2007 and 2008. And with that cost, you know, there's interest involved in that that the taxpayers that we all paid for with this this and the reason I mentioned the name is because it's it's on the application.

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It's right there. I don't know who this person I don't know who Brian Nickel is. I don't know who Vero Atlantic 2 LLC is. And it doesn't matter. It wouldn't matter if it was my next door neighbor. I I'd be having the same hard line of, "Hey, Miss Chris, my next neighbor, by

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the way, sweet lady, you you um purchased this and you knew that there were some issues encumbered in this property and you thought it was a good idea to buy it then. So, I think it's a good idea to make the taxpayers whole."

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Um, Mr. Robbins, I appreciate your your two cents on this. I'm not saying anybody is is wrong on it. I just know that where I stand on it, not a 100% of the time, but 99.9 I'm probably going to land on this side of it. So, I'm I'm still a no.

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>> Councilman Santiago, >> thank you, Mr. Chair. I I appreciate that. And you you know, I respect your opinion always. Um do I try sometimes? Absolutely. Right. That's the job. Um, you know, I I talked about that and I brought up the code and the precedent

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mainly because, you know, Matt and Troy, I felt that the position was more of a very strong absolutely not under any circumstances, right? And, you know, they owe this money to the government and this is our process and this is that, right? Um, and I wanted to share

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for thought process and discussion to say, well, there's precedents, right? which we discussed and there's code which is which signifies to the people that they have the capability like you said they can ask. It's not a guaranteed ask. Um and to to the public I haven't

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talked to the numbers. This is this is still a sizable amount. It's $9,000 that this new property owner is going to pay and it does include interest to the government. So there is a $3,362.58 that they're paying in interest on top

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of the fine that was acred uh during the time that they were in violation of our code. So um if there is times and that we should consider it maybe this is it because what what other what other facts can be inserted

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um because this person wasn't the person who was the violator. this person has purchased it to take it out of violation and invest and increase the tax roles. So, there's another net benefit to the work that this individual is going to be

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doing. So, uh and I'm going to assume it was a beautifification thing. I don't know what the problem was, but I can't remember. But they're they're fixing the problem. They're paying interest and they're going to add value future to our tax roles if there's not a case and they

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weren't responsible for the violation. So unless I heard anything that says that this person doesn't deserve the right other than that, you know, this is the government's money, I think we should and there's precedents. Um and and I I wouldn't want to change the code, but I brought that up for the fact

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that the code is our signal so that people can read and make a decision. So >> and uh so I would approve this council because I think it's a fair request and people the taxpayers are getting interest on it and we're we're improving the county ultimately. And you, as a

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matter of fact, I'd love to send a signal also to this to this I don't know if they're an investor or what, buy other blighted properties in our county that may be in violation and improve them. Right? Like Danny was saying, let's let's fix some of the problems that might be out there where we have

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some slum owners, I'll use that term, that are making our county lot property. So, Michael, whatever who that was, buy more and let's send a signal. Let's beautify Evolution, improve it more. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Thank you. Uh yeah, I'm not for changing the ordinance either because and I agree

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with what you just said. Each one is different. Each one should be uh the decision should be made on its own merits. But Troy, you've got me thinking about something else and I think uh I'm think I'm with you on this. When I first went through this item, I thought, well,

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the the counties made the right decision. They've kind of meet them halfway. Um, but then I'm I started to think uh we have an issue in Deleon Springs with a property that is running a business based on the county ordinance that we passed for homebased businesses.

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It's a good ordinance and we did the right thing in passing it. Unfortunately, the owner's just given us the finger and what can be done and they do whatever they want and code enforcement goes out there time and time again. They're usually refused access to

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the property, but leans are stacking up. And I keep wondering, why don't they care? Why don't they care that they have all these leans? Well, they don't have to worry about it until they sell. And if we keep getting rid of the leans when

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they sell, they don't ever have anything to worry about. And so, they can sell their property with ease. So, I'm wondering if maybe this is where we do need to draw the line and and say if if you're ignoring the law, you're affecting adversely your neighborhood um

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for whatever the reason is. Um yeah, there's a there's a price to be paid when you when you break the law. So, the leans start stacking up and then um I I I think we just stumbled on the problem why nobody worries about leans and

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because they'll just sell the property and then they can get them forgiven later on. So, uh that's where I am right now. Uh Vice Chair Reinhardt, >> thank you, Chair. Quick question before I comment. >> When the lean is in place, how long is

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it in place for? >> 20 years. >> 20 years. Correct. That's what I thought I I remember from my my code enforcement days. So, and that goes into my statement. I'm still a no guys, but I appreciate what you brought to the table and same with you, Mr. Robbins. But one important thing that always I'm reminded

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of the whole time we're having the conversation when we had those situations in Daytona, and I keep referring to that because of the example it sets, they were here to argue that they were here. they were present from that podium to say this is why I want it

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released because I didn't know or whatever the case was. And we actually had specifically one time where the individual said we we denied the the the reduction and they said well you know I got 10 more years and then it'll go away. That's the

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mindset that if they can hold on to it for 20 years, you just heard it from the attorney that the lean is only in place for 20 years. They'll wait it out until the lean is gone. So there was no way to capture the money anyways. So and and more importantly, like I

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said, they were here to argue it. That's where I keep keep going back to. Thank you, Chair. >> Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chairman. I hope and pray that we none of us ever have to go through this process and never have a

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lean on our pro on our properties u uh for whatever reason. Um, council, this this now is a vacant piece of land. It did have a structure on it, staff, that was demolished, right? >> Yes. >> And who paid for that?

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>> Did we pay for that? >> Yes. >> How much should that demolition cost us? >> Well, the securing of the property was uh 4,920 and then the demo uh was uh 14,000. So,

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at the time, So >> yeah. >> So the uh >> just just for clarification, I I were those numbers correct what he just said? I got I thought it was one was like 1,500 and one was 4,900 or something. >> That's my understanding as well. The the

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securing of the property initially was the 1500 and then the demolition was the 4,479. >> Right. I think that was just an error in speaking. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I did the total. I'm sorry. >> You scared me there. >> Um, guy,

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right now I I think the the the problem, and I appreciate us getting getting deep in this, but the problem was rectified. The structures out of there right now. I looked up the tax bill. It's it's $1,000. Uh, it can increase here. uh if they build something on it, uh you know,

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three, four, $5,000 if not more. Um I I get it. I I get holding but holding folks responsible, but you know, are we really helping the the constituents? What are we going after? Uh it's going to be hurting us in the long run. We're

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not collecting revenue on it. So, do we uh do it's vacant now. I think we need to capitalize on this and move on. That's just my opinion. It's It's getting crazy. >> Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah, I agree with Danny. I I I would

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point out um that back in I'm sorry. Back in 2005, this property was worth I'm looking at the tax assessor's tax appraisers office as well. But it said back in 2005 this was worth $125,000. Uh that's what the property was tax

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assessed. apparently before whatever calamity happened that caused it to warrant the building to be torn down, but and then it was ultimately sold to these people for $7,900 in 2017. So, I don't know what happened, but apparently

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it was something that and like you said, it's a vacant piece of property. It's doesn't just from the aerials, it doesn't look like it's in a a high rent district, so to speak. I mean, it looks like it might be a depressed. I don't know, but the values aren't that high right now. I'd like to see them improve

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it and make it better. Obviously, they're not adverse to sitting on it because they've been sitting on it for 9 years and they may let it just sit for another 11 years waiting out to lean it like Matt pointed out. Now, we got, you know, a piece of property that's sitting idle for 11 more years because

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they're sitting out this judgment. I'd rather incentivize them to be able to give us a break. Zillow has this uh appraised at 66,000. Um the tax assessor has it assessed at 60,000.

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So a third of its value right now is eaten up by penalties and interest. So I'm I agree we should cut them a break. I mean we offer all kinds of financial incentives to other businesses to lure them into the community to develop jobs and you know by building this it might

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be adding jobs for local contractor. I don't know. But I I just I'm in favor of cutting them a break just because it's it's not like it's a million-dollar asset and they're looking to just take pennies off of it. It's it's something that a majority of its value

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unfortunately is is tied up in leans and fines. So I think if we can cut them a break on this to encourage development and not let it sit for another nine years empty, um I'd be in favor of it. Thanks. You want to hear from the chief

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financial officer first or? >> Nope. >> Okay. >> Okay. He gave me he gave me the >> I'm I'm only here to correct the record so that the the audience >> Ryan Os has the right numbers. >> The the leans were attached to the agenda item. First of all, it was $1,500 for boarding up or securing the

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structure. And the cost of demolition was $4,72. Not $14,000. was $4,72 and four uh $47.20 for other costs incurred by the county. So the total principal amount was what

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was stated earlier which was 5,979. That was the cost incurred by the county. 14,000 was a misstatement >> plus the 3,300 in interest and the staff recommendation. >> That interest recommendation is the CPI amount which basically brings those costs up to today's dollars. Sure.

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>> So it equalizes to today's dollars. >> Understood. And I I'll just Oh, I was going to wrap up, Danny, if you >> No, wrap it up. Hopefully your head's going falling asleep. >> Yeah, I know. Yeah, we might be 33. Um, but I I'll just say to Mr. Reinhardt and

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and if if Troy's interested, the 20-year argument supports why we should work with people, otherwise it could sit in blight. So, um, I think this is the right thing to do for this particular property, and we shouldn't punish this owner. U, with that, Mr. Chair, I move that we approve the reduction fine as

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the staff recommendation. >> Okay. Councilman Santiago makes a motion to uh take the county's recommendation of the remove reduce fine to $9,342.

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Second was by Councilman Robbins and uh comment on that Councilman Troy Kent. just briefly chairman um to Mr. Santiago and why why do I try to help the other side sometimes?

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But David, do you really want to make that motion and not a motion to continue? Because if this goes 33, it fails and I win and I love winning. Um, but we don't have a full deis up here. And with Jake up here, I you know, of course, we have no idea where he'd go

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with it, but I'm not trying to I guess I am trying to help a little bit, but I just there's a reason it's an odd number up here. And I'm going to win if your motion continues the way it is.

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And I'm I'm okay with winning, don't get me wrong. >> Can I respond, Mr. Chair? >> Yes, Councilman Santiago. >> Yeah. Listen, and that's why I like the process like you said. So, you know, there's a possibility I could have voted no on my own motion >> like I did

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>> and motion to reconsider when when there's a seventh person here, right? So, but with that being said, if you're okay with a tableabling, I'm okay with the tableabling, too, because it effect in effect is the same thing. So, um and and Mr. Chair, we're deadlocked and and

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maybe it gives an opportunity for the applicant to come and speak before us because some of it asks for it. Um, I withdraw my motion, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. >> And I'd like to make a new motion to table this item to the next regularly scheduled meeting. >> Okay.

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>> So, the motion is to reschedule to a time certain the next scheduled meeting. Uh, the same seconder. Councilman Robbins is in favor of that. Any other comments, questions? Then the vote is for tableabling this. Um, all in

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favor say I. I any opposed? Thank God. >> And that passes six to zero. >> Chairman, I know we're going to the next one, but I I love that debate we just had because I do think it also sends a message to not only staff, but to the community as well about where some of where all of us stand actually

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>> and to the code enforcement people. very frustrating for them when they go out and check out a property and and they're sometimes toothless with leans. Um I know you do. Item

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three. Did she >> Oh. >> Oh yeah. We're still on consent agenda. >> Chairman, I was just going to briefly speak on O. That was the one I just wanted to >> Okay. So, I just wanted to speak on O because we had some good debate on item

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N spending 441,000 on playground equipment and that's mostly grant money, but here we're using county money, 138,000 on redoing a whole basketball court and a tennis court, which I thought staff excellent job. I mean, 138,000 for doing

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that kind of work. I just wanted to show the the comparison between apples and apples here of, you know, two types of different playgrounds. But what a great job Tim and and George on, you know, the cost of concrete nowadays. But to get something like that and I believe this

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is over in Ostein. Yeah, very very uh very positive and and a good thing. That's all I wanted to say. >> Thank you. Now we'll move to item three uh which shouldn't take that long. Uh but the the honorable Lisa Lewis is in

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the chambers with us and supervisor of elections office has received honorable mention for the clearary award. She brought her own for innovative early voting that can

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actually be counted in less than three weeks. >> Yes. Kendrick, you come up here. Okay. Good afternoon. I am Lisa Lewis, supervisor of elections, and with me is Kendrick Thomas, who is my operations manager, and it is thanks to him that we

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he submitted this for hopefully getting an award, which we did. Honorable mention, but we have nowhere to go but up now. So, we were recently recognized by the United States Election Assistance Commission with an honorable mention Clearary Award. And the Clearary Award

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recognizes election offices around the state for their innovative ideas and making it better for people to vote, easier access. So, we're quite proud of that. But more importantly is because we partnered with the county IT department to do this. So, I wanted to give some

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kudos accolades to them because they were a huge part of this and we're so thankful that we do have this collaboration with the county and the IT. John Bailey. I saw him earlier. Is he still here? Okay. Well, John Bailey, the IT

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director, and most specifically Brandon Barnett and Patrick Ricker, they are your GIS gurus. If you don't know, they have assisted us with this. And what this did was to help us an they

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analyze the 2024 general election data to better understand voter access to early voting sites. Where are they coming from? Which early voting sites are they voting at? With that being said, we are now opening a ninth early voting site. Due to this data, plus

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since we moved from the south end of town, which you know helped us access the Orange City voters and south end of the land, we're now on the north end. Sorry. We need one down in that area. So, we're opening up at the Sandborn Center in partnership with the city to

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have early voting there. So because of this study and this analytic geospatial analytics that they did, it has helped us to know we do need one down there. So, all that being said, I can't thank them enough, but they you also need to

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know that they assist us with our mapping and redistricting and redistricting and oh yes, redistricting again because if you're following anything, Valuchia County did their redistricting, then Daytona Beach

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did redistricting, then Daytona Beach had to change their redistricting and again. So with their help, we have been able to keep all the voters up to date, the voter roles and whatnot. So I thank them. I thank you. And most

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specifically, I have to thank the county manager, Mr. Rectenwald. I'm going to take a minute to give him some accolades because he always gives us county employees to help with elections. Election day during early voting, the day before delivering equipment. We could not do it without them. And as you

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know, it is an election year this year. So, we will be calling again. So, I just I just wanted a minute to of your time and for everybody, the public that's listening online, that's here in the audience to know that we have a great

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county. We do and we all work together and I appreciate everybody. So, thank you very much. >> Thank you, Councilman Troy Kent. Madam Supervisor, would you come back up, please? Um, Madame Supervisor, first of all,

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congratulations on um the award that you received and you run a very efficient, tight, lean operation, and the voters have appreciated that of you time and time again. So, thank you for that. But

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I wanted to thank you for sharing something I had no I didn't know until you just said it. I had, you know, I'm a fan of George Rectenwald and I've I've mentioned here publicly many times he puts a he has an uncanny way of putting the right people in the right positions, but I had no idea that that he gives you

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help in the way that you did with with boots on the ground. Yes. >> And I love that he's able to do it number one, but then that he does do it to make sure that it is a seamless operation. So, congratulations. >> Thank you. Thank you very much.

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Can I get a motion to approve this award? >> Motion to approve. >> Motion. Motion to approve by Vice Chair uh Reinhardt and second came from Troy Kent. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed?

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And we approve of your awards uh unanimously. Six to zero. >> Proclamations. We will present one in chamber. this time for uh the charter review committee and it will be presented by Vice Chair

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Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Um first of all, before I call everybody up, I want to thank you um publicly for all the hard work that you've done. This is not a very easy task. Um I know from conversations I've had with many of you prior to the commission coming in. I

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guess Mark knew I was going to call him out, so he left real quick, didn't he? Yeah, he had to know. >> Oh, sure he does. No, I'm just kidding. So, but I I did want to thank you very much. It was uh regardless of the outcome, it's still a lot of hard work and a lot of the discussion, a lot of

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time, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into it. And I can't thank you enough uh for all the hard work you did. Uh yes, judge. Even you. So, I appreciate that. So, without further ado, I'm going to read it from up here because Pat, do you want them up here or when do you want to do that?

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>> You call the ball. You want me to read it first? >> Okay. She's taking over. >> She is taking I let Pat take over. >> So, I'd normally come down there, but Pat Nory and Ben Johnson scare me, so

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I'm not I'm not going to do that. >> Okay. Maybe Judge Clayton does, too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Without further ado, whereas on June 30th, 1970, Valuchia County voters approved the home rule charter in defining moment that united a fragmented

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county under one government and laid the foundation for a council manager form of government. And whereas when the charter was implemented in 1971, it set a precedent as Valuchia County becoming one of the first counties in Florida to adopt home rule powers following the

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passage of the 1968 Florida Constitution. And whereas today more than 75% of Flidians live in the state's 20 charter counties like Valuchia, these charter counties possess broader powers of local self-government compared to

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non-charter counties which are restricted by general or special state law. And whereas the diverse 15 member 2026 charter review commission was led by chair Mark Watts and vice chair Pat Nory uh and included Jennifer Bright,

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James Clayton, Ben Johnson, Nathaniel Ingram, Kelly Quiet, Dwight Lewis, Amy Manuzi, Ken Parker, Nick, I'm going to butcher your name. I know it. Nicholas Sagnowski, Suzanne Shriber, Christopher

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Taland, Billy Wheeler, and Stephanie Walford. And whereas the commission worked diligently through 2026 and met 24 times thoroughly to evaluate the county charter and recommend amendments to be placed on the 2026 ballot that

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will ensure a high quality of life and responsive governance in Florida in Valuchia County's future. Now therefore, we the county council of Valuchia County, Florida, do hereby proclaim June 16th, 2026 as Valuchia County Charter Day in Valuchia County, urge all residents to familiarize themselves with

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the county's foundational document and thank the city citizens who served on the charter review commission. Thank you for a job well done. She was instrumental. >> I told Let's get a couple people to come up

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front. Pat and Billy and Jennifer. Will you come up? Be in the front row. >> Okay. Yeah. >> People behind the >> Okay. County Council, take take a big step to your right.

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>> No, no, only them. You guys are good. >> Okay, there you are. I'm getting there. Smile. Okay, one more, guys. Very good. Thank you.

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in just a second. And we got one person that wants to speak on it, too. Before before everyone leaves, we need a a motion and a second to approve uh the pre the proclamation. And we do

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have one member of the public uh mayor of Daytona Beach Shores who would like to uh speak on this item. >> Motion to approve. >> We have a motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt and second and second by Councilman Kent.

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Uh Nancy Miller, would you like to come speak on >> item? >> Hi Nancy Miller, Daytona Beach Chores District 2. Um vice chair, I didn't even know you were doing that proclamation, but I saw this booklet and um I just had

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a couple words to say about the charter review. Remember, it all started with you. I just want to applaud each and every one of you for the diverse background, the expertise for the people that each one of you recommended to be on this charter review. Without your recommendation, it wouldn't have

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happened. Listen to a couple of them, attended one, but what time and effort and thought and dedication that they put into it. I hope I'm not stealing your words. I had them written down first. But anyway, I just want to thank citizens of Valuchia County that give of

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themselves, that care enough about our community to move this forward, and I want to thank each and every one of them for their hard work, their time, their dedication, and the love of this county. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Councilman. Councilman

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County Manager George Rectenwald. >> Yes, sir. Uh at this time I'd actually like to ask uh Ken Parker because the item was really about uh the our charter itself. So I'd like him to come up uh because there's a this is about the

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anniversary of the Valuchia County Charter and he has some specific uh words he wanted to say. My name is Ken Parker. I live in Port Orange. Um, it's my privilege to be in front of you today representing the Florida City

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County Management Association and the International City County Management Association. We'd like to congratulate Valuchia County on 55 years of operating under our charter form of government. If you take go back to 1970 when you when there

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were 22 members appointed to uh to draft that u that charter, there was no template for Florida of what county charter would look like. And once the voters in Valuchia County adopted it, it became the template that other counties

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used to develop their charters. Secondly, there was no template for how it would be implemented and Valuchia County became the model for how did you implement a charter form of government

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under the Florida Constitution. So, congratulations to Valuchia County. God, I kind of have a an unusual perspective. I have known and I have worked with every one of your county managers.

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I had the privilege of also knowing many of those that were under the uh the original charter commission and um and have gleaned a lot of information about the county charter from those individuals during my many years of

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service here in Valuchia County. So I have a sort of an unusual perspective of of it, but on behalf of the two associations, we just wanted to come and say congratulations for Valuchia County.

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You were the pioneers. You were the ones who set the example for the entire state of Florida. So we wanted to come and just celebrate that with you today. I do have a certificate that I would like to present to you on behalf of the two

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association recognizing this council and the past councils for their diligence uh under the Valushia County Charter. So, thank you George, do you have any closing words? >> No, sir. I think we covered it.

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>> You're good. All right. We have a a motion and a second to uh accept and approve of the recognition. All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? That also passes six to zero unanimously.

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And item five, uh, third public hearing and presentation on amendments to the Valuchia County Home Rule Charter by Russ Brown. Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of council. Russ Brown, deputy county attorney, hear you before you tonight for the third and final public

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hearing for your charter commission's five recommended uh amendments to put on the ballot. Um unless there's any questions, I'll turn it over and we can have the public comment period of the uh hearing unless anybody has any questions about the five amendments that you know.

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Well, at the end of the public comment period for this third and final meeting, we will need a motion to approve the resolution placing the items on the referendum for the ballot. Okay. Thank you. We do have several members of the public that care to speak. First up is John Nicholson.

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John Nicholson beside Daytona Beach. If we don't speak, it doesn't get in the record. And I want it known that for a reason, we decided to have a vote on who should be the chair of the county

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council. being a his history person, um, knowing history, families like the Daily family in Chicago,

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uh, the Henry family in Daytona Beach, when certain groups control the council, then it's basically a rubbish champ. So, we were lucky. We got a really good

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first chairman. I knew Frank Bruno personally and I thought he did a great job. For the most part, we've had great county chairs and all of them elected by the residents of Daytona Beach, Orman

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Beach, all 17 municipalities all got together and chose one person. when we choose I don't know I guess there's what 400,000 voters

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it's kind of a a general statement when six or seven guys get together and they vote for one of them their own it doesn't really come out the same way so publicly I would like all of county to

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continue voting as a block for who we think as a whole community rather than a select few who should be the chair. And secondly, with regard to the echo involution forever,

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as Don says, no, I did not read a whole gazillion papers and ideas and uh takes on what forever meant, but the general consensus was that these properties

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were going to be maintained basically forever unless, and And I believe it was intended. The community decided it was needed for something else. Not just a few seven people deciding,

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but all 400,000 of us deciding by majority vote whether we should get rid of a land or not. So when we protect land, it's meant to be protected. I don't like a select few of seven making that decision. Those are my two issues.

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Thank you. Thank you, Amy Manzi. Amy Munzi to Leon Springs. It's unfortunate that Mark Watts was not able to stay um for that proclamation because he was a major reason why we were a success. Uh much has been said on social

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media about the members of our charter review commission. in particular references to non-existent developers. In truth, we had three from the health care profession. a financial analyst, a financial planner, a retired judge, a

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retired sheriff, a retired law enforcement officer, a corrections educator, one retired from the oil industry, a retired city manager, a nonprofit community advocate from the rural area, one from the city, an insurance executive, and a land use

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attorney, Mark Watts, who served as our chairman. Mark Watt is not a social media personality and he's not a fabricated profile. Mark is a native son of Valuchia County with deep roots here. Mark attended McInness Elementary School in DeLeon Springs and he worked hard

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through high school. He graduated from Florida State University with a degree in international affairs and he earned his jurist doctorate from Stson University College of Law to become one of the finest land use attorneys in the state of Florida. It was my privilege to

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nominate Mark to serve as the chairman of the Charter Review Commission and he was elected unanimously by his fellow commissioners. Why? Because Mark Watts had the institutional knowledge of serving with distinction on the previous charter review commission and who is

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known for his ability to collaborate thoughtfully, respectfully of the opinion of others and has the ability to bring a group to consensus successfully. Mark Watt's resume and reputation is quite impress impressive. But I want to

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tell you about my personal story. When I first started as a volunteer advocate 17 years ago for the neglected community of DeLeon Springs, it was Mark Watts who helped shepherd us through what it would take to get clean water to our community after a disastrous fuel plume that

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polluted our water supply. It was Mark Watts who navigated me through environmental issues and Mike Snupstyler from Cobb Cole who helped us work with the state of Florida to obtain two brownfield area designations. That was unheard of for any unincorporated area

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of Valuchia County. And it was all done at no charge to our community because that's who Mark Watts is. I'm sure he's embarrassed by this. I'm sure he's glad he left already. His outstanding qualifications and humble character always precede him. But for anybody who

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engages in the falsehoods of the social media bullies, they should reconsider this information that I just said and thank Mark for volunteering his valuable impartial talents and wisdom to the citizens of Valuchia County. Thank you,

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>> Wendy Anderson. And you will be followed by Gary Singleton. Thank you. A month I'm Wendy Anderson. I live in District 1. Um a month ago, I stood in front of you during the first hearing and and I read to you um some

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language out of the state statute that defines public purpose. And there were several there were several land uses that that were listed in the state statute that um should have given each and every one of us serious pause. And so, um, so I'm here today to talk about

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the the fifth proposed amendment and, um, and to tell you that I still have serious serious heartburn over the third section or the third element of that fifth amendment. And, um, and I just have to I just took a screenshot of it so I could get the exact language here,

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but um, what do we have here? We have uh this section shall not apply when the property is being used for a public purpose by the county. And it goes on to say some things about imminent domain by the state and the federal government. I'm not concerned about that. I'm I'm

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really concerned that this uh item number three is a major loophole that totally disregards a vote by the county council. disregards whether or not it's a vote of of simple majority or

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a vote of supermajority or a unanimous vote. It disregards the need for a vote. And I'm and I'm seriously concerned that the wonderful, brilliant people who served on this commission would have written language that was so so vague.

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Why did it need to be so vague? If you go and look at the fine print in the 2020-80 resolution that is available to everybody on the the Valuchia Forever program website, scroll to the bottom,

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there's a link. It takes you right to the resolution. Anybody can read the eight pages of fine print. It's not really hard to read. And if you if you look in there, it talks a lot about the purpose of the land, the the

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conservation and ecological preservation of the land. And there is language in there that does say I was I was hunting for this cuz I'm like, okay, okay, how can we find the original language, the fine print? And it does say each project must state a public purpose for the

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restoration, conservation, or preservation of environmentally sensitive lands and water areas. And it says and not or and for providing public use. Okay. Public

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use in this case is access to the conservation lands use by the public of the conservation lands. It isn't any other public purpose like fire stations or you know bombing ranges or any of the other things that I that I mentioned

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last time might count as public purpose under state statute. Our own county resolution states it as public use of the conservation lands and I want you all to consider that carefully. >> Thank you. Thank you

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>> Gary Singleton and you will be followed by Cat Pante. Gary Singleton, Valuchia County resident. I will be voting against all four of these amendments. Our charter should not be weakened as to be influenced by whatever whichever way the wind is

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currently blowing. Every amendment listed will either weaken the voice of Aluchia County citizens, remove vital spending restrictions on politicians, attempt to fix something that isn't broken, or ignore the will of the people. Citizens should retain the right

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to choose the county chair, refusing to hand over that right to politicians. The will of the people must be protected. The current term limits are adequate, allowing a reasonable limitation to how long someone may serve the public in an elected capacity. Restrictions on

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politician spending should remain in place. These restrictions are a reminder of whose money you are spending. Our charter is a reflection of our rights under home rule. I'm sure there's a supremacy law that will resolve any conflicts with the state constitution.

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Personnel administration should not require a change in our charter. The citizens of Lucia County overwhelmingly voted for large-scale conservation. The amendment would require a vote. The amendment should require a voter referendum to sell the

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conserved land, not allow politicians to decide if it should be sold. Forever means forever, not until a group of politicians can vote to remove it. This amendment amendment would allow politicians to do as they want, not what

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citizens voted for. >> Thank you. And as to my assumption about the lean, uh, we'll wait until there's a full vote on it because I think I'm still going to be right. >> Katherine Pante.

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Good afternoon, council. Amendment number five titled established registry increasing county voting requirement for transfer of conservation land was approved by the charter review commission for placement on the ballot. 11 members voted in favor while four voted against. I want to thank those

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members who had the foresight to oppose it. A charter amendment to protect Felia forever was requested because of the repeated attempts to undermine the program over several months by Councilman Don Dempsey from Nadas. In addition, Councilman Dempsey and two CRC members have repeatedly signaled their

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desire to keep open the option of using conservation land for a county public purpose, specifically mentioning solar farms, police stations, and fire stations. These are infrastructure projects and should be funded by the development that creates the need for them through impact fees. Using taxpayer

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funded conservation land for such purposes is inappropriate and contrary to the intent of the program. I want to draw your attention to subsection 3 of the drafted ordinance which was conveniently excluded from the ballot language. It states, "This section shall not apply when the property is being

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used for a public purpose by the county or taken by state, federal, or other entity having lawful authority to exercise the power of enment domain over county owned lands. The issue is not the state or federal enemment domain provision. That is a recognized and lawful exception. The problem is that

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this loophole was intentionally created to give the county unrestricted access to conservation land for any purpose it deems necessary without public notice and without a supermajority vote of the council. Subsection 3 effectively eliminates both public notice and a

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vote. How convenient. The council would not need to sell conservation land if it could simply repurpose it for whatever uses it chooses without meaningful oversight. This amendment is not protection. It is a gift to those who want to develop our conservation land. Let me repeat that the chair of the

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charter review commission works as a land use attorney for one of the largest firms in the region representing development interests. Furthermore, one of Councilman Dempsey's two appointees specifically referenced police and fire stations as potential uses for conservation land. The other has some involvement with Dempsey's taxpayer

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funded motocross project and specifically requested an appointment to the subcommittee that assisted in drafting this ordinance. This is precisely why the project is now being referred to as a park rather than a motocross facility. Why call it a park instead of a facility? Because it fits within their definition of public

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purpose. It is a travesty that this is what our county attorneys drafted regardless of who provided the parameters under which they were instructed to work. Valuchia County residents taxed themselves to acquire these lands for conservation with the expectation that they would be preserved for future generations, not that current

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or future officials could quietly redefine their purpose and decide otherwise. Thank you. >> Thank you. And that concludes public comment on item five. Uh open it up for questions. Uh Councilman Santiago or

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discussion? >> Yeah, I think there's no questions right discussion because we're going to vote. Um, if I may, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to to um the public that that may be hearing this from the first time. Um, this charter review amendment document

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that we have before us, and I apologize to those who already know, the the the amendment we have before us, we can't say no to it. We have no authority to say no to it regardless of what is said. Not that we're not listening, we can't say no because the way the charter is written, what they send to us

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automatically goes to the ballot for you all to vote. And you know, I sit here sometimes and I and I and and I wonder, you know, we often get um uh reminded

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that the people voted, the people spoke on other items that have been before us, that we should listen to them because the people have spoken, right? We hear that all the time. Well, guess what? The people will speak on this, too. and we'll know very loud and clear

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whether 60% or more or less want what is being argued for or against. So, the debate really needs to happen amongst your neighbors uh and the information that's out there to make your own educated decision. That being said, to the Charter Review

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Commission, thank you for your courage. Thank you for your service. I want to apologize to you for the unwarranted attacks that some of you or maybe all of you have received in social media. I got a new name. I've had it for years. It's social sesh poolool because most of the

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stuff out there these days is garbage. And and I I I'm disappointed that social media gets hijacked usually by a minority. I want you to know that it's a minority. The work that you do is good for the people of Valuchia County. Thank you for your courage for stepping up and putting your name behind it because the

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keyboard warriors, they're going to do their thing. To the ones that come up here and speak that I may agree or disagree with, I I respect you all because you all have the courage to come up here and try to convince others face to face with your name behind it without all of these fake profiles that are out

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there. So, I and I agree with some of the stuff that's been said. We've had conversations. So, thank you for your courage of putting your face here. keyboard warriors, you know my opinion of them. Um, and with that said, Mr. Chair, I move that we I think we have to do a motion.

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We move to adopt a resolution to send this to the ballot to the ballot. >> Okay. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt, you wanted to speak as well. >> I'll second that motion, but I I did want to make a comment. Um, and to kind of echo what you said, uh, Mr. Santiago,

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I didn't just accept to do that proclamation because it was there because everybody knows how many proclamations I do and I get but I truly appreciate the hard work that you did. I really do. I mean that wholeheartedly and that it doesn't just mean those

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meetings that you went to. It wasn't just meaning the individual time that you took out of your own lives to go do this, but you did it with social media attacking you, with those others attacking you. and I commend you for it. So, we are, you know, we took this this

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role to accept that, but you know, does it bother me? Yeah, it bothers me a little that they feel that way, but does it, you know, look what I did for 30 years. I'll leave it at that. >> You weren't popular. >> No, I really wasn't. But, you know, I made it to Warden for a reason, not because I tucked him in at night. But,

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I'm just saying that that is true. I I really truly appreciate that. Now, we're here to just do this, and I know a lot of other great ideas were brought up, tremendous ideas, and many of which I agreed with, but there will be a time to bring that

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up. And I I've got an idea for the end of the meeting, but for this right here, I just wanted to say thank you, and I'll second the motion presented by Mr. Santiago. Thank you, Chair. >> Okay. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Chairman, and David. Uh, I appreciate you saying what you did and

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and thank you to our our charter review uh commission because um just like us uh you guys take a lot and and this was a long, grueling, painful at times process and and one thing that that

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disappointment I'd hate to be a a negative Nancy at times but just a few days ago and this hints on what Mr. Santiago the truth behind Mr. Si Santiago's words. Everyone knows Miss Suzanne Shriber. Uh

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she made a post Dream Green Valuchia put the picture of this beautiful raccoon call like pretty much a call to action June 16th our meeting amendment taking away perpetuity for land conservation third and final November.

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It's not true folks. It's strengthening the vote. Okay, county attorney, just so we can put this to bed on the record, what did the how does this change from what we currently have? Cuz I've about had a

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belly full of it. So, this uh strengthens your current vote. Right now, under the state statute 125.35, it only takes a majority vote, sell, convey property. It also creates a registry by which you can put property into the registry. And then it denotes

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the transparency that already exists both in state law and property that could be used for public purpose which if a project came before you I would articulate that stage Georgia's staff would come before you for different contracts and different things to build certain things on road. So you would have that ability to approve that

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project even though the property is not transferring out of the county's ownership. So >> So >> it increases the majority the vote from a simple majority to five. >> Okay. creates the registry and it acknowledges the other part. >> So in any way, shape or form, Mr. Brown,

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does this amendment I just want to be clear, does this amendment take away perpetuity for land conservation? >> It it is it strengthens your current vote under the state statute about what's required to sell property. >> So would that answer?

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>> I would say no. so that it strengthens it's it it's a higher threshold for the county council in order to be able to sell property as an attorney, right? The facts always matter and and opinions change, right? So, and then

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you know perpetuity is this thing that we like to talk about and but you know it's it's in perpetuity until it's not, right? So, and that and that's on anything that I don't mean to be controversial. I'm just telling you as an attorney, there are agreements that

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anything can be satisfied in order to be able to do certain things, right? It may cost money. It may be a higher vote threshold. It may be whatever. I think that this strengthens your current and and just to to try to put this to bed here with just one last question.

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I understand the process, but why didn't the makers of this 26 years ago, they must have thought about this, right? And we had some of the original drafters of this policy on this charter commission and it's gone from the voters two times. Um, have we ever sold any

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land to anybody? No, >> sir. My understanding is it's only been imminent domain when we found >> has it have we directed you guys to do policy in 26 years uh that you know of to the best of your your recollection? No sir. And I would say I think it goes as far back I don't

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know if Brad's still in here but 1986 you had the endangered lands process right even goes back further than 26 years where we started buying conservation land. >> Right. Thank you Russ. Good job. I have nothing further. Yeah, I just would add

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and Russ can jump in if I'm overlooking something, but right now uh if you had no charter change, just what you have in place now, you have a Valuchia Echo, Valuchia forever resolutions which were renewed by the voters. Why did those go?

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Why did that go to the voters? It went to the voters only actually legally as a bond authorization. So you could bond those monies um that you levy each year. You

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don't have to levy any particular amounts up to 0.2 mills a year uh per per program, but you know at tax time you decide what that levy is. Uh right now

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those properties are a county asset. It is my opinion your decision on how to handle them. But as Russ had said that you haven't sold any that we're aware we may have had some taken by imminent domain.

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Um and it is our opinion that the way state law is written that's an area they preempted to say that's your decision. What this does is increases the vote that would be necessary to a majority plus one to sell them. If

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you do not have a change, it would be a majority vote. However, you have not done so. >> Thanks, Mike. And and and Miss Pante's, we're often on the opposite sides of of a lot of things, but we've been good

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here lately. But I think where some of folks frustration come in, Mr. Dyer, is is that why was this program called Valuchia Forever when there's a statutory out or an exception? Does that make sense? That that's where some of

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the confusion I think uh comes in. I know we've all said we support it, you know, and my answer to them is elect people that really support the program. But can you >> Well, certainly your track record has been that, right? Because you haven't sold any uh since the program's

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inception. I I was not here at the time when it was that was written. I came shortly thereafter, but I would assume it was modeled on the state program, >> but it happened a second time. Were you here for the second? >> I was. >> Okay. >> So, nothing really changed. >> No.

436
02:19:20.800 --> 02:19:36.000
>> Uh, wording wise, so you know, it'd be nice to know. >> I haven't been involved. I don't recall any direction from council to prepare any. What I'm saying is that same program was re-uped again in 2020,

437
02:19:36.000 --> 02:19:51.760
Valuchia Forever, with the same outsilar or exceptions, you know, eminent domain and yada yada. But I'd also like to know why it's being called or why it was advertised as Felia forever when it kind of I can see where the confusion can

438
02:19:51.760 --> 02:20:08.399
come in, but uh and it leads to the political hijacking like we're seeing now with with some dragons that don't exist. So, I'm just trying to put this to bed. Thanks, Mike. >> Okay, no other comments or questions. We

439
02:20:08.399 --> 02:20:23.359
have a motion and a second to approve the charter reviews committee recommendation of of five amendments. And as has clearly been stated, I will say this again to the public that um we

440
02:20:23.359 --> 02:20:40.160
we have to approve this and pass it on. But that doesn't mean there might be uh one of these that any number of council members disagrees with and that will be debated between now and November. The fact that they vote if they vote to approve this does not mean that they're

441
02:20:40.160 --> 02:20:57.840
approving of of every every amendment. It's to give you the uh the chance to debate it from now until November and vote on it. >> Uh Russ, did you want to say one more thing before the vote? Okay. >> Um then the motion to is to uh approve

442
02:20:57.840 --> 02:21:13.200
uh the five amendments that have been given to us. All in favor say I. >> I. >> And any opposed? >> And the charter reviews committee's recommendations are approved unanimously six to zero. >> Wait on number six. Pardon me. I'm here

443
02:21:13.200 --> 02:21:28.479
for number six. >> Oh, you're here for number six as well. Okay. Continuing the discussion on charter review. Um number six is a similar recommendation

444
02:21:28.479 --> 02:21:43.439
um uh on Valuchia forever. And um I ask that this get put on the uh on the agenda for us to consider and vote for. And and the reason that I did that

445
02:21:43.439 --> 02:22:00.720
should be very clear at this point. It's become very much a part of the public uh discussion, not just on social media, but debates that I go to for people running for office. Um all it's it's uh it's highly debated. It was important

446
02:22:00.720 --> 02:22:16.800
enough that the charter review committee rightly took it up and came up with the proposal that we've just talked about. Um, I wanted to go take it a step further and give the protection to the

447
02:22:16.800 --> 02:22:32.560
voters of Valuchia County, the the greatest protection they could possibly have, and that is a unanimous vote by uh this council or actually by future councils. Now a reasonable question has come up to

448
02:22:32.560 --> 02:22:49.520
that in that well you're you're giving uh uh someone veto responsibility and I thought yeah that's true because that's how important this is I believe to the public when 75% of them voted for

449
02:22:49.520 --> 02:23:05.840
this actually more than 75% and believe that forever should mean forever um notwithstanding the law every governor in this in the in the uh United States wants a veto. It does not mean that the

450
02:23:05.840 --> 02:23:22.960
legislative body is not respected. Uh it's simply a mechanism to keep the debate centered on what voters who have told us what they want gets debated. It allows robust debate on the reasons a

451
02:23:22.960 --> 02:23:40.720
potential sale of conservation land should or should not be approved. In this case, the voters of Valuchia counties have made it abundantly clear they want in perpetuity protected in Valuchia forever. A unanimous vote by

452
02:23:40.720 --> 02:23:56.880
every future council is the best way to do that within the boundaries of the Florida Constitution. Um, several reasons. It forces compromise. This is this is how the governor of Florida uses it. The veto serves as a powerful

453
02:23:56.880 --> 02:24:11.520
bargaining chip to ensure every consideration is made and provides the best representation for taxpayers. It acts as a passive break to protect the will of the people. It blocks hasty or

454
02:24:11.520 --> 02:24:27.439
potentially unwise acts and puts the discussion in the public realm. It guarantees complete and adequate debate from every corner of our county in every district. It prevents major conflicts.

455
02:24:27.439 --> 02:24:44.000
It gives taxpayers in every district the strongest possible vote and voice to protect land purchases in their community. It protects the will of the people equally in all five districts.

456
02:24:44.000 --> 02:25:00.160
This is I believe the center of the debate today. Taxpayers from every political persuasion, Republican, Democrat, NPA, all of us voted for Valuchia forever and made it clear with

457
02:25:00.160 --> 02:25:16.160
two votes. Um I believe that they intended they they believed uh Valuchia forever meant meant forever. However, let's remember it keeps it in the hands of the county council to ultimately make

458
02:25:16.160 --> 02:25:34.000
the decision before conservation land can be sold. As much as I trust the voters of Valuchia County to make the best decision on how best to protect Valuchia forever, we must also trust the seven members of

459
02:25:34.000 --> 02:25:50.319
this and future Valuchia County councils to represent their constituents and work together to make the best decision or compromise. That's what the veto does. Governor Ron DeSantis said it this way, and this is a direct quote. if they are

460
02:25:50.319 --> 02:26:05.840
being difficult on things that are important to our voters because the fight is really who's going to represent the voters that we got elected to serve and who kind of is doing their own agenda and Republicans get into trouble

461
02:26:05.840 --> 02:26:22.080
when they run on a on an agenda and then they go up and do different things. Dantis said end of quote. So, uh, a unanimous vote simply requires a serious debate of the issue in which every

462
02:26:22.080 --> 02:26:37.280
council member must work together for the good of the people that they represent in their district. While we trust the voters, we should also trust council members to represent their constituents to the best of their

463
02:26:37.280 --> 02:26:54.720
ability. Again, this is within the Florida Constitution. I can't ask this council to vote for something that the county attorney and every attorney I have talked to said is in conflict with the Florida Constitution. But let's be clear on what I'm asking here. I'm not

464
02:26:54.720 --> 02:27:10.319
asking for this council to approve a unanimous vote. I'm asking them to let you make that decision. That's all that's being done here. I want them to put this on the ballot so that you can vote. Do you want a unanimous vote by

465
02:27:10.319 --> 02:27:27.040
the county council or do you want a majority plus one? Which do you believe gives you the ultimate protection? Um, our constituents want and deserve protection from what they feel is changing the protection they voted on.

466
02:27:27.040 --> 02:27:42.399
So, council, that's that's my request to you is that you you may have great disagreements with this approach, but let the public decide and let's debate it from now until November and

467
02:27:42.399 --> 02:28:00.399
let them decide. Um, there'll be two uh competing u uh ballot proposals. If this one passes, it supersedes the other. And the other question I'll just say quickly that I think rightly came up is will it

468
02:28:00.399 --> 02:28:17.520
confuse voters? I I think we should give voters more um credit than that. I think they can read two of them and pick the one that they like the best or none at all. They might reject them all. So let's trust the voters to make this decision and not take it out of their

469
02:28:17.520 --> 02:28:33.680
hands. Um Councilman David Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, um I I listened very closely to your comments, Mr. Chair. Um I personally think there was contradictions even

470
02:28:33.680 --> 02:28:49.120
within your uh your your points that were uh very well said, but I think there were some contradictions in there. Um when you say let the voters decide, but trust this council to decide. I think

471
02:28:49.120 --> 02:29:04.720
you know using the the veto power that the governor has was a good tactic but the veto powers it was set up mainly for the separation of powers between the governments you know the judicial the executive uh and the legislative so that

472
02:29:04.720 --> 02:29:21.600
that that is part of the the premise of the veto uh structure when it was created so I don't think it's a uh apples to apples here that being said it's just a disagreement on procedural Um the fact is one piece was left out of

473
02:29:21.600 --> 02:29:36.319
that. Historically when we've had opposing amendments on a charter uh amendment uh ballot, they've both failed. That's what we've

474
02:29:36.319 --> 02:29:53.600
had historically because it has confused the people. And I'm not saying the people are not smart. I think they probably just get frustrated that this makes no sense. I'm going to say no to both. I think that's what really what and that's me my probably guess but probably an educated guess. Um the fact

475
02:29:53.600 --> 02:30:09.280
here is that the charter review committee made a proposal that is now going to the ballot that strengthens the vote requirement to sell any property that doesn't pass. We're still where we're at today. We can do it by

476
02:30:09.280 --> 02:30:24.880
simple majority. You don't have no registry. If you all decide in the public that that's going to be the the threshold, then so be it. But if you really want to protect Valuchia forever, here's my spin, if you want to call it, because everything here is spin, right?

477
02:30:24.880 --> 02:30:41.439
Um my spin is if you really want to protect Valuchia forever, given the current circumstances that we have now, which there's a ballot already before you that's coming, right? and historically has proven that people deny opposing ballots, we should not put up

478
02:30:41.439 --> 02:30:58.000
an opposing amendment. It is setting up for failure. So, if you want it more protections and you may not be happy that it has the exact threshold or or or or uh challenges or or protections that you feel, and I get it, and I've

479
02:30:58.000 --> 02:31:13.120
publicly said I was okay with additional um thresholds or changes to it, but that's not where we're at today. where we're at today is you put an opposing uh uh charter amendment, it's likely going to fail both based on precedences. And

480
02:31:13.120 --> 02:31:30.720
I'm going to say that I want to protect Valuchia forever and deny this opposing amendment or do other stuff with it, which I will will shortly. Um and and stick with giving what's already been presented to the voters already. And

481
02:31:30.720 --> 02:31:46.240
with that, Mr. Chair, I move that we table this item indefinitely. >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion on the floor to table item six indefinitely by David

482
02:31:46.240 --> 02:32:04.399
Santiago and the second was by uh Danny Robbins. Yeah, we still have a lot of the public who want to speak on this. Um, are there any questions on that uh motion by

483
02:32:04.399 --> 02:32:23.120
council before I go to the uh Okay, question by uh Councilman Robbins. We heard a statement. Uh, let the public decide. Mr. Dyer or Mr. Brown, if you if you may. For 26 years this program has been in

484
02:32:23.120 --> 02:32:41.200
place. What did did the public vote on twice during those 26 years in terms of this this program? >> Tax themselves for the forever program, >> right? What kind of vote did they vote? What kind what did that entail in terms

485
02:32:41.200 --> 02:32:58.800
of the vote? a simple majority >> when you well to to raise funds through tax to be able to buy property for conservation purposes. >> What I'm trying to do is is break down the process of of what the what the

486
02:32:58.800 --> 02:33:15.439
people voted for and how does this deviate from what they voted for? >> Yes, sir. So, it's it was a bond referendum that was voted upon whether the as Mr. Dyers talked about in the last item whether they'd be able to bond based on the millage rate that they

487
02:33:15.439 --> 02:33:32.319
voted to tax themselves up to if approved annually by you up to 02 mills. As far as um the process, you know, it's got to be a will and seller that comes in to to buy to want to sell their property. Um and there are policy

488
02:33:32.319 --> 02:33:48.560
uh requirements or guidelines that the council that is brought before you and you prove and annually uh your advisory group that you appoint red does things and and makes recommendations to you based on the program to continue to improve. >> But it was based on a simple majority though Russ of those votes.

489
02:33:48.560 --> 02:34:02.560
>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. By council, >> right? So that so that's history >> by the lands. Yes, sir. I'm sorry if I misunderstood your question. >> All right. Thanks. Okay, for the public uh to come and speak on this, you hear what the motion

490
02:34:02.560 --> 02:34:27.840
is is to uh table it uh forever. No time certain. Um John Nicholson, you'll be first and following you will be Katherine Pante. Uh John Nicholson Beachside

491
02:34:27.840 --> 02:34:48.240
one no tableabling two the development that we had 25 years ago is nothing like we've had in the last 10 years. The flooding that we had 25 years ago is nothing like the flooding we have now.

492
02:34:48.240 --> 02:35:04.240
the technology, everything is moving fast and furious. Now, I've made my idea clear that I respect this council, the diversity uh of in 40 years of all

493
02:35:04.240 --> 02:35:21.840
the councils that I've seen, this is the most diverse and the best background. And 20 years ago, I got in trouble by saying that when the council was voting on something that they would not be here in 20 years. And none of those that were on the

494
02:35:21.840 --> 02:35:36.960
council 20 years ago are on these seats today. And I'm saying to you all that in 20 years from today, the probability, because I've taken probability and statistics, the probability that you all will be in

495
02:35:36.960 --> 02:35:53.040
these seats again in 20 years is slim and none. Let alone 200 years when Don is talking about we don't know what's happening in the future. So I'm guaranteeing you that. I know the mayor of Dayton Beach says I'm wrong, but I

496
02:35:53.040 --> 02:36:09.600
can guarantee you in 200 years you guys are not going to be sitting there. We don't know who's going to be sitting in your seats. We don't know who's going to be corrupt. I know my commission is corrupt. And when I look at my cor commission, one

497
02:36:09.600 --> 02:36:25.040
family runs it and rubber stamps whatever they want. Who's to say that this commission will always be as good as it is now? That's what they're saying. We want added protection. It's not David that we're

498
02:36:25.040 --> 02:36:41.439
worried about it's statistically it's failed when there's two things. All right. This is a clearcut. Now, Don told me, "Did you read all this?" And I said, "No." And I can guarantee you that not everybody who voted read everything. We just don't do

499
02:36:41.439 --> 02:36:58.800
that. All right? lawyers do that. And you had a lawyer saying that we don't do this. Well, yeah, we change votes all the time. We had slavery at one time. We had women not voting at one time. We changed things all the time. So, we

500
02:36:58.800 --> 02:37:13.920
could have changed and made this more strict if we wanted to. And that's what I believe they're asking for right now. We want to cover our butt. We want to make it absolutely positively because in Daytona Beach a community service is hut

501
02:37:13.920 --> 02:37:31.960
housing and they would vote to take Valuchia forever for hut housing. I don't think that would go for the rest of the county. So I'm asking you give the people an absolute choice. Thank you. Katherine Pantang.

502
02:37:44.479 --> 02:37:59.439
>> Good afternoon, Council Chairman Brower. You're asking for support for your amendment today, but I have to ask, where has your support been for the Elatchua style amendment that includes a strong voter referendum requirement for Valuchia forever? Dream Green Valuchia and I have been advocating for that

503
02:37:59.439 --> 02:38:15.120
approach since January. Have you been traveling throughout the county educating residents at community meetings about the importance of Valuchia Forever program? Have you been using social media to defend the program against the constant efforts to undermine it? You have certainly devoted significant time and energy to promoting

504
02:38:15.120 --> 02:38:30.640
a clickbait proposal. Yet, I have seen little of that same effort dedicated to protecting the very same program you claim to support. a program funded by taxpayers and supported by voters who elected you in part because of your commitment to land conservation. I continue to support an amendment that

505
02:38:30.640 --> 02:38:45.840
requires voter approval for the sale or transfer of conservation lands and I will continue pursuing that goal. However, today following Councilman Kent's playbook, I am prepared to make a strategic decision and support your amendment because it is substantially

506
02:38:45.840 --> 02:39:01.680
better than the version proposed by the Charter Review Commission. My support is contingent upon one important action. I ask that you pass the gavl and make an additional motion directing staff to bring forward a county ordinance immediately. That ordinance should protect Valuchia Forever Lands until

507
02:39:01.680 --> 02:39:17.120
November ballot by requiring a unanimous vote of the council for any sale or transfer. If you choose not to make the motion, perhaps one of your fellow council members will do so on behalf of the public. This is not about politics. It's about protection. Every member of this council claims to support the

508
02:39:17.120 --> 02:39:34.560
Valuchia Forever program. If that support is genuine, there should be no hesitation in adopting an ordinance that takes effect after two readings and requires unanimous council approval for the sale or transfer of conservation lands. The city of Bokeh implemented such an ordinance on May 12th, 2026. It

509
02:39:34.560 --> 02:39:51.359
is in effect today while voters consider a charter amendment this November that would require a referendum for sale or transfer of more than 1/2 acre of protected lands. Let your words match your vote. I'm not finished because there were some questions by uh

510
02:39:51.359 --> 02:40:07.520
Councilman Robbins. Orange County does not have a subsection 3 loophole which we supposedly mirrored ours after. Councilman Robbins selling is not the main problem. It is the county purpose loophole. 12535 is a baseline Florida statute for counties to sell or lease

511
02:40:07.520 --> 02:40:24.920
county assets. Meaning charter counties can create stricter guardrails by ordinance and charter amendments to strengthen protections on certain environmental lands. We need a competing ordinance to make the bad one fail. Thank you, James Clayton.

512
02:40:32.800 --> 02:40:48.240
>> Good afternoon. Thank you, chairman and council members. Jim Clayton, lifelong resident of Lucia County, 72 years, was one of the 15 members of the charter review commission. And we started meeting last fall and uh with a very diverse group of people as you already

513
02:40:48.240 --> 02:41:02.720
mentioned earlier, Democrats, Republicans, NPAs, men, women from all segments of society and we debated these these suggested modifications to the charter. A lot a lot. Miss Pante was

514
02:41:02.720 --> 02:41:18.960
there a lot. I understand her passion. I respect her passion. I admire her passion. But I don't agree with anything she said. And neither did we when we voted. off. We know it was voted. She said 14 um 11 to four. It was 13 to2. I just confirmed with another member a

515
02:41:18.960 --> 02:41:33.760
stud a subcommittee studied this. So we had 15 people that you just honored with a proclamation about how good a job we did. And you're this amendment you're pushing forward counter is counter to that. That amendment collides head on with what we drafted. We studied

516
02:41:33.760 --> 02:41:49.359
Elatcha. We studied Orlando. We debated it. We discussed it a lot. and we get put every effort into it. To put that on there will confuse them. You're wrong. And let me ask you this question. What if they both pass? Your amendment says,

517
02:41:49.359 --> 02:42:06.680
"Oh, it'll supersede what we sub submit." You think it's going to end there? I'll tell you where it's going to end up. It's going to end up over that big building at the other end of the road. It won't be resolved until a a jury or a judge decides it. You're setting yourself up for a litigation you don't need.

518
02:42:08.000 --> 02:42:24.000
I have a question for you. Does a motion to table not take advant take supersede everything? I thought when you made a motion to table, you had to vote on it right then. If y'all had grand that I wouldn't had to talk. >> Ain't that right, Mr. Chairman? >> I think the the privilege of the public

519
02:42:24.000 --> 02:42:39.040
to speak supersedes all >> No, that's pandering. Does a motion to table does a motion to table take precedence over every other motion? Robert Levor says a motion to table trumps everything. I'm just saying I would I didn't want to get up and talk. As you know, I've

520
02:42:39.040 --> 02:42:55.280
passed both LA last time and this time I'm not passing. But I'm I just say if you're not going to table it, I encourage you to vote it down. Don't put it on the ballot. It will confuse them. It undoes what every one of us worked hard on on all those meetings that you just admire just praised us for our

521
02:42:55.280 --> 02:43:22.560
work. Thank you, >> Suzanne Shyber. Hello. Good to see you all. Mr. Robbins, Mr. Dempsey. If you looked at the March 17 agenda, it was easy to see why the chamber was full. The Valuchia Forever agenda item

522
02:43:22.560 --> 02:43:39.200
stated policy considerations. During the December of 2025 discussion, council members raised several policy level concerns. Staff has prepared an analysis and considerations for council in the following areas. Partnership requirements and county control.

523
02:43:39.200 --> 02:43:56.479
Qualification of properties in urban or surrounded settings. Conservation acreage context and tax role impact. Program integrity safeguards. The rationale for public ownership of regulated wetlands and a proposed development application cooling off period. The list of policy items being

524
02:43:56.479 --> 02:44:13.520
questioned from December set off a chain reaction establishing how we arrived here today. Mr. Robbins, you stated on social media that forever meant forever. Mr. Dempsey, you have said that you love Valuchia forever. Mr. Santiago, you said

525
02:44:13.520 --> 02:44:29.200
you have no intention of selling our conservation land. Mr. Kent said, I think your request is reasonable, chair, so I'll make a motion to bring back the amendment. And Mr. Reinhardt, you stated the definition of perpetuity is forever. And chairman, you said it is a wildly

526
02:44:29.200 --> 02:44:45.920
popular program, which generally sounds like Councilman Kent. Sometimes the most obvious is overlooked. The council can pass an ordinance requiring a unanimous vote to sell or transfer property interest acquired through the endangered lands or Valuchia Forever programs. It

527
02:44:45.920 --> 02:45:02.720
strengthens the initial voter referendum and does not affect Valuchia Forever's original intent. Show us that you have no plans to sell our Valuchia Forever conservation lands and that words spoken in support of the program meant something by passing an ordinance requiring a unanimous vote without the

528
02:45:02.720 --> 02:45:19.279
verbiage for public purpose use. The council unanimously voted to bring this amendment back. Please pass the ordinance now and an amendment for the November ballot. We asked repeatedly for the Elatchua amendment. The Valuchia attorneys gave opinions against it even

529
02:45:19.279 --> 02:45:35.680
though there were three known Florida counties with the voter referendum verbiage. Panella, El Sala, and Miami Dade. Anyone paying attention would recognize that no one speaks for me. We support the best policy available that this council can pass to protect our

530
02:45:35.680 --> 02:45:51.520
conservation lands and taxpayer funds and have been doing this since 2020. The item before you today is the current option on the table. We want an ordinance with an amendment and no one else has brought that up pertaining to an ordinance. Nothing changes the

531
02:45:51.520 --> 02:46:09.040
councilors or county's responsibility to protect our Valuchia forever lands and taxpayer funds. It's in perpetuity until it's not. Thank you for your consideration and thank you Mr. Brown for just speaking the truth.

532
02:46:09.040 --> 02:46:34.080
Wendy Anderson, Wendy Anderson, District 1. Well, these are certainly uh interesting times right now. Um I did not expect Miss Pande to stand up here and um go the direction she went, but because she did, I I feel um absolutely confident that what I want

533
02:46:34.080 --> 02:46:49.840
to say um will will not get me in trouble later. So, um, so here we go. I, um, I want the public purpose clause to disappear. I made that clear earlier. And if Mr. Brower's if Mr. Brower's

534
02:46:49.840 --> 02:47:07.200
option comes forward without a public purpose clause, I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Again, like I said earlier, I I don't really care if you all are, you know, having a simple majority or a supermajority or a unanimous vote on something. I want the public purpose clause to go away. I think our voters

535
02:47:07.200 --> 02:47:23.120
are smart. I think our voters are not going to be confused by two different options. I want Mr. Brower's amendment on the ballot. I wish we could have the Elatchua version. I wish we could have a voter referendum. I I saw Mr. Dyer's um

536
02:47:23.120 --> 02:47:39.200
advice to you all that state statute prevents that, that it is the job of the council to make decisions about sales. I understand that that you feel constrained by that. Um, and so as much as I wish we could have an Elatchua version, if the next best thing is what

537
02:47:39.200 --> 02:47:55.040
Mr. Brower is offering, partly because it does require that full agreement. You called it veto power. I'm not exactly I'm sure I kind of agree with Santiago. That may not have been exactly the right lingo there. Although I do appreciate your, you know, political science 101

538
02:47:55.040 --> 02:48:11.920
um, lesson there. Um, what's weird about county councils is you all get to serve as both ex, you know, as executive and legislative and sometimes quasi judicial. You get to wear all the hats. But anyway, we I I am I am excited at the idea that Miss Shyber and and Miss

539
02:48:11.920 --> 02:48:27.279
Pante have offered to you all that we could have an ordinance right now or not right now, but after a couple of hearings, we could have an ordinance that actually protects the original intent of valia forever. Let the amendment go forward. let people figure it out. But yeah, let's go for the

540
02:48:27.279 --> 02:48:41.840
amendment. Go ahead and put the other the other um amendment option on the table, too. But yeah, let's go for an ordinance right away. That makes all the sense in the world. Let's do it. You Ben Johnson,

541
02:48:41.840 --> 02:49:05.520
you get to close this out. Good evening, Ben Johnson. the land. I'm a big believer in good government. I'm a big believer in the fact of you should not take all the abilities for you to govern out of the hands of this

542
02:49:05.520 --> 02:49:21.359
council or any council or any future council. I'm a big believer of trying to tell the truth about and I hate to say it but a lot of what I have seen and heard ever since this started and the attacks on social media and things are being said

543
02:49:21.359 --> 02:49:37.840
up here, excuse me, but there's a lot of unmitigated [ __ ] That's just the way it is. I've sat here and listened to people come up here and stand in front of you know which ones they are and tell you part of a truth, not the whole truth. trying to sell a

544
02:49:37.840 --> 02:49:54.080
story that we're trying to weaken the ability about selling this property. I have always voted for forever and echo. I've always voted for because they are great programs. I don't want to see the property sold or

545
02:49:54.080 --> 02:50:10.240
done away with. But the idea of having to put a 70 vote and Mr. Burrow, you know this. When I sat on that council, we couldn't even get a 70 vote when we had free food in that back room about what time we were going to eat.

546
02:50:10.240 --> 02:50:27.439
Now, that's just absolutely pure fact. Now, a a super majority I feel like was the best way to go. It's a way that we can take and make sure this program stays in place. And they say that I heard also I think maybe I'm getting old

547
02:50:27.439 --> 02:50:44.240
so I may forget some things but I believe I heard that not notifying the citizens I believe isn't there not a 30-day notification that we put in there later that was a lastm minute thing that some of the people came forward with and said hey we'd like a little stronger and we

548
02:50:44.240 --> 02:50:59.439
sat down and did that. Ladies and gentlemen, I think if you put these competing ones up against each other, forget it all. And you might have that council that wants just that majority vote, and they get rid of it.

549
02:50:59.439 --> 02:51:15.359
So, right now, it's in your hands if you want this thing to pass or not pass. Mr. Santiago has studied politics probably more than anybody up here, and what he said is absolutely true, and most of us know that. I think it's very wise that

550
02:51:15.359 --> 02:51:32.479
you table this thing as was said. Let's get this thing on the ballot and let's strengthen this thing in a manner that you can work with, future government can work with, and the people can work with. Thank you very much. >> And that ends public comment on this item. Uh, Councilman Troy K.

551
02:51:32.479 --> 02:51:48.800
>> Thank you, Chairman. I'll be very brief since there is a motion um to table this indefinitely. And I I just put my two cents in very very quickly here. I I don't see a problem with your idea of item number six putting this out for our residents to vote on. Fish County

552
02:51:48.800 --> 02:52:06.960
residents are the smartest voters I know about. I don't think they get it wrong. They're educated, well educated people and I don't think it would be a problem. I'm going to be a no on the continuence and if it if it's uh voted down then I'll make a motion to approve this.

553
02:52:06.960 --> 02:52:22.399
You're going to be a no on the continuence >> on the on tableabling it. >> Okay. Uh, Councilman Santiago. >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I I know we I'll just say this and then I'll go my my official action. Um, I I this is not a

554
02:52:22.399 --> 02:52:39.600
testament to this whether or not Valuchia County residents are not smart or not are the smartest. I think they are. And I think that's why when we had opposing amendments, they said, "What the heck is this? You don't know what you're sending to us, so I'm going to deny both." I think that was the smartness from Valuchia County residents

555
02:52:39.600 --> 02:52:55.920
that sent us a message when we put opposing amendments in there. And I'll leave with that, Mr. Chair, because our rules do call for the motion that I made is non-debatable and it should just go right to a vote under the rules that we've adopted. And you were right, Mr.

556
02:52:55.920 --> 02:53:11.920
Chair, the public has an opportunity to speak, my understanding. Um but it is not debatable based on the rules that we've adopted and we should go right to a vote. >> Okay. Well, the public has spoken and one council member has spoken. So, let's

557
02:53:11.920 --> 02:53:27.439
vote on this and then we'll move on according to what this vote is. The uh the motion on the table is to table um in perpetuity um this this item. Uh

558
02:53:27.439 --> 02:53:46.200
would you call the role, please? Mr. Reinhardt, >> yes. >> Mr. Robbins, >> yes. >> Mr. Santiago, >> yes. >> Mr. Dempsey, >> yes. >> Mr. Kent, >> no. >> Mr. Brower, >> no. But the item is tabled.

559
02:53:48.800 --> 02:54:17.680
>> Congratulations, Felicia forever. You're going to be strengthened if you pass it. >> Okay. Item seven is a proposed uh Councilman Robbins, your name just popped up. Okay. >> I was about to make a motion to uh uh

560
02:54:17.680 --> 02:54:32.880
approve uh the proposed abandonment of the portion of the rightway of Orman's Jungle Den. >> Second. >> Okay. Um, Tad, it's getting it's getting to where you don't even have to walk up here. The motions are are made before I

561
02:54:32.880 --> 02:54:47.120
can even read the uh proposal, but the motion is made to uh pass this abandonment of portion of the rightway by um Councilman Robbins and the second

562
02:54:47.120 --> 02:55:08.000
was by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Uh, and for questions, Councilman Don Dempsey. >> Okay. Uh, for questions, Troy Kent. >> It's just a comment if that's if no one else has any questions. >> Go ahead and make a comment. >> Just a brief comment just to say in the spirit of consistency. I I will actually

563
02:55:08.000 --> 02:55:23.680
be approving this one because number one, it's not on the water. It's not a postage size stamp of property where we could put a pocket park or a passive park. Um, and because of those reasons, I'll be voting yes to abandon this. >> Okay. Uh

564
02:55:23.680 --> 02:55:38.960
I don't see any other comments. So all in favor of the proposed abandonment on item seven, please uh say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And that passes six to seven. Good job, Ted. >> Um item eight and item nine will

565
02:55:38.960 --> 02:55:54.720
probably uh go together here. So I'm going to ask uh item nine uh that part of it is a quasi judicial hearing. Does anyone have any exparte to declare? I >> I do not. >> Item nine.

566
02:55:54.720 --> 02:56:13.920
>> I spoke to the uh attorney for the developer >> an attorney as as well. We had a brief conversation. >> Um good council. Uh Ray Tiner, growth resource management director. Uh thank you. Yeah, the these uh item eight and

567
02:56:13.920 --> 02:56:29.920
nine are are two items. We'll do one presentation. And the first one is for a small scale fluent. The other one is for a reasonzoning. Uh the property is located off of Old New York Avenue. It's approximately 2.32 acres. This is an

568
02:56:29.920 --> 02:56:45.920
aerial of it. There's an existing restaurant on the property uh stockyard. So again, uh before you is the future land use map um that shows on your left hand side of your screen going from urban low intensity to commercial.

569
02:56:45.920 --> 02:57:01.760
The resoning portion of the property is going from general commercial, the B4, and transitional agricultural, the A3, the green color there on the left, to plan unit development. The commercial uh future land use

570
02:57:01.760 --> 02:57:17.200
designation allows for a variety of uh full use of uh sales and service activities um with a maximum uh floor error ratio of 55%. what the uh property uh is proposing is

571
02:57:17.200 --> 02:57:33.200
to retain the existing restaurant that is already there and there's already some structures that are out there, an old barn and a house. So, what they're doing is u they're proposing to do an event center um to have like uh maybe weddings and that type of thing uh and

572
02:57:33.200 --> 02:57:50.080
serve food. Um they are proposing to add some more parking spaces where they have a total of 70 uh parking spaces on site and maybe some overflow parking as well. Uh they are doing some storm water improvements and they're going to do some additional landscape off of New

573
02:57:50.080 --> 02:58:07.120
York Avenue as well. This is uh the site plan that's proposed that's in the uh PUB development agreement. On the right hand side you'll have the existing restaurant. There's no proposed new structures at this time being proposed. Uh on the left hand side

574
02:58:07.120 --> 02:58:23.200
of your screen, you'll see where the where the barn is that what they're calling an event center. They have some done some improvements for outside seating uh and to have some people uh for events as well um for for that area.

575
02:58:23.200 --> 02:58:38.160
So the um planning and land development and regulation commission approved this by a 60 vote on March 19th. Um they did have a condition and they're recommended a condition. It's also staff's condition

576
02:58:38.160 --> 02:58:54.319
as well that a resolution would would take place on a hiatus strip that is uh on the it's on the south and north side of the property. Um, and what that is, it's it's a a survey area era. This

577
02:58:54.319 --> 02:59:09.200
survey, the original survey was done like in 1920, early 1900s. And back then, they didn't have GPS. They used chains, right, to do it. So, it's pretty common that you would have kind of highes in in property, but before they

578
02:59:09.200 --> 02:59:23.840
start construction, uh, their survey needs to resolve that issue uh before they move forward. So, uh, I know the applicant is here. Um, Cobin Cole, who's representing, uh, the owner of the property, I think,

579
02:59:23.840 --> 02:59:45.920
would like to say a few words as well. Okay. And are you representing the owner or are you representing Mark Watts? A >> little bit of both today, I think. Good evening and for the record, Michael Woods with Cobb Cole, 231 North Woodland

580
02:59:45.920 --> 03:00:02.399
Boulevard here today on behalf of the property owner and Mr. Watts as well. Um, and I'm happy to appear on behalf of this client. It was one of these uh projects that came through that was a little bit of a scrap in our office as to who got to do the work. Mark got to do all the fun stuff, but he had to be

581
03:00:02.399 --> 03:00:17.760
in another location today. But I'm excited for this because this is a nice mix of preservation and repurposing of existing facilities. Um, just briefly, you know, growing up for me in in town, this this location was Pondos. I'm not quite old enough to remember the old

582
03:00:17.760 --> 03:00:34.160
hotel and whatnot, but one of my first memories of of hearing about Pondo because, you know, it's a little out of the out of the way uh for a restaurant. Uh, the one of the owners of of Pondo, Miss Fischer, and she, amongst other things, they did a culinary cooking

583
03:00:34.160 --> 03:00:49.760
classes for children during summer vacation. Now, I didn't take that class, but a good friend of mine in second grade did, Shawn, and he got a little bit of grief for it. Um, but in that class, he was taught to prepare and bake a pizza that was topped with caviar. And

584
03:00:49.760 --> 03:01:06.160
in 1986, Dand, who on earth would have ever heard about that? And I I bring this up um because it's something that's distinctly deand being in that location to have that opportunity. And I also want to mention that I've kept in touch with my buddy Sean. Uh he lives out in

585
03:01:06.160 --> 03:01:23.359
California now, but his parents still live in Orange City. They had their 60th wedding anniversary in December, and he cooked for them, and he's an engineer. He did not go to the Culinary Rail, but he cooked a seven course meal for them for their 60th anniversary. And I think some of the roots of that comes to Pondos. And I I it's it's maybe modeling

586
03:01:23.359 --> 03:01:38.880
and it's maybe an emotional kind of story, but I bring it up because this is a unique proposal. And we don't always get to do something f fun like this. It's unique because the age of the primary structure dating back to the 1930s. Uh it's evolved over the years.

587
03:01:38.880 --> 03:01:55.520
You know, that used to be a gateway to Dand when people came to Dand via train. Um and now it's a restaurant kind of off the beaten path. It's unique in its geometry in that the property is you saw the concept plan. It's it's oblong, right? It's hemmed into the north by the

588
03:01:55.520 --> 03:02:12.240
railroad tracks. Uh it's hemmed into the south by the roadway. And again, that roadway, if you go out there, I know we've resurfaced it recently. That's the old brick roadway that came in from the train tracks. It was like a single, not even a car width back in the day. So, it's kind of been squished in a little bit there. Um, and it's unique because

589
03:02:12.240 --> 03:02:28.399
this is one of these rare efforts where rather than uh removing and rebuilding, we're repurposing and reusing. And I don't always get to come before you guys on projects like that to be able to talk about that. It isn't easy to retrofit old structures and old layouts and old

590
03:02:28.399 --> 03:02:44.000
uh properties. And given the limitations that were present here, uh it's taken a while for this property owner, this de this this restaurant owner to acquire those other two properties, including that barn to expand to address existing parking issues and to expand the

591
03:02:44.000 --> 03:03:00.640
utilization of his restaurant uh for larger like wedding events that they couldn't otherwise host in the restaurant itself. And it's been a you know multi-year process to do this. um with respect to the land use change, you know, that's primarily being driven by the size constraint under the existing

592
03:03:00.640 --> 03:03:17.760
land use um that the ULI allows for under commercial. Um but the barn has been there for 30 some odd years and we're not expanding that. We're within that footprint. And then with respect to the resoning, not only do we bring the existing restaurant operation and define its uses and buffers formally rather

593
03:03:17.760 --> 03:03:33.040
than it being a grandfather non-conforming use, um we're addressing some additional uh storm water and some additioning additional parking uh solutions. Um and just as it applies to the existing restaurant, this bar facility will also be subject to all the

594
03:03:33.040 --> 03:03:48.880
county noise ordinances as well and the limitations of the operations that are provided in the PD. Um he mentioned the staff uh the um hiatus. I can get into that a little bit further if you have any questions or anything else specific. Uh but this has been a proposal that

595
03:03:48.880 --> 03:04:04.160
staff has been very active in trying to work through resolutions and solutions to allow for this operation uh to come through. We're excited for it. I'm h happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Okay. Questions for the attorney? Uh Councilman Robbins. >> Chairman, I didn't have any questions. I

596
03:04:04.160 --> 03:04:19.040
was going to see what motions need to be made. you have a question. I'll I'll wait. >> I just had one question for you. I think I understood that you just said the only real changes to the property are improvements to

597
03:04:19.040 --> 03:04:35.279
storm water and increased parking. >> Yeah. I mean, so the the physical structures are still in place, right? You've got the barn's been there for a few years. They acquired a house in between where the restaurant is and the barn that's being utilized or contemplated to be utilized for like a

598
03:04:35.279 --> 03:04:52.720
bride's prep preparation room. But from a physical improvements, they've put out some patio walkers out behind the barn, but there will be uh storm water predominantly on the western portion of it. Right? They're not they're not tearing up the existing asphalt at the restaurant, but the storm water is being

599
03:04:52.720 --> 03:05:08.080
improved over on the western side. And where there is additional parking, if you look in the DA, they have shared parking and they have a cross- access um uh agreement with the church school property across the street for off- peak hours. And then for the improvements for

600
03:05:08.080 --> 03:05:25.040
parking on the venue area, that's being kept as grass to kind of minimize the impervious area. Um, so again, you know, when you look at it and the north south dimensions get tight and again you got the railroad behind, you know, to the north. Um, I

601
03:05:25.040 --> 03:05:39.040
think they've done a pretty good job of of kind of tying this project in together, making it more of a linear uh project rather than like a square. So, >> okay. Uh, Councilman Kent, >> Mr. Woods, just two brief questions for

602
03:05:39.040 --> 03:05:55.680
you. Did you ever try the pizza with caviar? You know, my friend did not make it for me. Uh if we just uh teased him, but the next time he's in town, I'll see if he'll make it for me. >> And then my second question is a little more serious. Did uh did he make it for their 60th anniversary?

603
03:05:55.680 --> 03:06:10.640
>> Honestly, uh they I there was some connection to Shalet Suzanne, if you remember that restaurant out in the it was >> he made the menu that they had had for like their uh their wedding night or something like that. So, he's he's a

604
03:06:10.640 --> 03:06:27.520
good dude. uh got a 1,600 on the SATs. He made us all look bad, but uh he's a good friend. >> Gotcha. Um thank you for uh the detailed information about the improvements on this property. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. We uh Councilman Robbins, you can

605
03:06:27.520 --> 03:06:43.200
probably uh say what you wanted to say. We do have one member of the public who would like to speak on item A and then the attorney may choose to um respond. I think it actually might uh >> let them go ahead first. >> Give you an opportunity

606
03:06:43.200 --> 03:06:59.840
with uh uh when we u declared exparte. I said I talked with the attorney. I did I should say I also talked to uh uh Miss Moon, Patricia Moon here tonight when she was

607
03:06:59.840 --> 03:07:17.960
here just very briefly. Um, but she actually had an idea that u you may have heard, you may have not that could be helpful. But anyway, Patricia Moon, if you would like to speak now. You have three minutes to uh tell us your concerns.

608
03:07:20.960 --> 03:07:38.800
>> Yes. My name is Patricia Moon. I live at 2002 Old New York Avenue. And before um that restaurant was built, my house actually was the first house built on that street. So, I purchased this historic home with the idea and dreams of restoring it fully. I am a veteran

609
03:07:38.800 --> 03:07:56.000
and uh unfortunately I suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder which has really exacerbated because um I have a school that is operating on residential property without a site plan that shows any outdoor playgrounds or anything. And uh

610
03:07:56.000 --> 03:08:13.359
so they feel that they can just use any land they want. And they are um 15 ft from my property line and they have forced me to have to pay for their fence and wall that they were supposed to put up. And uh the wall that the engineers

611
03:08:13.359 --> 03:08:30.479
stated would be would help are uh would have to be 54 feet back which it was a 50 foot back setback at that time. If you're wondering why am I talking about this when we're talking about that restaurant, I love that restaurant and I love those people down there. I don't

612
03:08:30.479 --> 03:08:44.399
want to speak against it. I think it's a great idea. Um, I was a hair stylist as well, so I thought, you know, I could maybe help those girls out down there. And my husband sings, so, you know, so I thought this would be great. But the

613
03:08:44.399 --> 03:09:00.000
noise level is so horrendous that um I didn't I did send some stuff to uh Jeff Brower showing uh my medical records but I had suffered a um

614
03:09:00.000 --> 03:09:16.960
kind of like a sorry but I had my blood pressure went up to 211 over 104 because of the noise from the school. And now I've got a picture here. They're already

615
03:09:16.960 --> 03:09:32.800
over there and that barn that they don't have, but 29 ft between me and them and the fence that I paid for at $11,000 for 10 ft high. And the county council gave me a uh hardship variance for that

616
03:09:32.800 --> 03:09:48.800
10-ft fence, and now it needs to come down because it's just too old. I I mean I used solid 1 in thick cedarwood cyprress. I think that's what it was. But it it's already it's seen its better day and it's coming down soon. And the

617
03:09:48.800 --> 03:10:03.920
cost of replacing it will be $74,000 because I have to build it really tall because they won't back up. They've not had permission to use the property at 1972 Old New York. And on the day I put in an

618
03:10:03.920 --> 03:10:22.240
appeal, the very person who held four positions with that school, it's not a church. There's no church. They admitted that in court. Um I've been to court twice. I've spent about $50,000 in court because I can't get anybody here to enforce

619
03:10:22.240 --> 03:10:45.279
this code. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, do we have there's uh three people up. Uh, Danny, did you have other questions or comments? Sure. Didn't I know there's going to be

620
03:10:45.279 --> 03:11:01.439
multiple uh parts? I get I think Mr. Dyer to this uh or array to this motion. How did you want this? I I'm reading some additional conditions. Did you did you need something special put in this motion other than approval? >> No, just approved the condition as well

621
03:11:01.439 --> 03:11:16.160
that they take care of the highus issue with the surveyor part of those conditions prior to construction activities. >> Did everybody hear that? >> Yes. Motion to approve uh with the uh additional recommended conditions. Second.

622
03:11:16.160 --> 03:11:36.640
>> We have a motion to approve uh by Councilman Robbins and a second came from Vice Chair Troy or Vice Chair Reinhardt. Okay. Troy, did you have questions or after that? Okay. All right. Um I don't

623
03:11:36.640 --> 03:11:55.680
have a question on that. Did you have something else you need? The Flume amendment that's first would not need the conditions, but the next vote for the resoning that's where we would want the conditions. >> Okay. Be clear. >> Okay. All right. So, this is just the the vote

624
03:11:55.680 --> 03:12:13.120
on the ULI future land use um the flu designation. Um any other questions? Then all in favor of uh this smallcale comprehensive plan amendment, please say I. >> I.

625
03:12:13.120 --> 03:12:29.920
>> Any opposed? And that passes unanimously 6 to zero. And did you need to say anything else about item nine? That's the companion part of this, the uh reszoning of 2.32 acres? >> No, sir. Uh I I do want to stipulate

626
03:12:29.920 --> 03:12:46.960
though that we actually have additional language in the PUB agreement for uh noise abatement. Uh so there's uh specific in section P of the agreement that calls out uh you know no loud noises horns. They still have to comply

627
03:12:46.960 --> 03:13:04.319
with with our noise ordinance as well. >> So we just did added protections. >> Okay. Uh, is there a motion on the resoning? >> Motion to approve.

628
03:13:04.319 --> 03:13:19.040
We have a motion to approve by Councilman Robbins and a second by Councilman Dempsey. And uh, you don't have to speak to this. I heard something that I hadn't heard

629
03:13:19.040 --> 03:13:36.399
when we when we uh, Miss Moon and I briefly spoke. Um, and she's right. I think I got I think there's four emails in my email today. She had an idea for noise abatement with a product. You already are aware of that. And when I

630
03:13:36.399 --> 03:13:53.520
just heard you spent $50,000 on lawyers, you probably could have done the noise abasement with that with that amount of money. Now, you could around your property, but she >> she just she just told me about the noise abatement materials. We'll talk to the property. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you.

631
03:13:53.520 --> 03:14:11.200
Okay. Um, >> all right. Anyone else have uh questions on this? Then all in favor of the uh resoning, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And the reasonzoning passes six to zero.

632
03:14:11.200 --> 03:14:53.120
And that brings us to uh the star of today's show, the five-year forecast presentation. All right. I'm actually raising it. >> Pardon me. >> Wasn't all the way up. Oh. >> Uh, good evening, council. Ryan Oowski,

633
03:14:53.120 --> 03:15:10.160
chief financial officer. Before you, uh, we're here to do part two of two of the five-year forecasts. Uh as you know, property tax reform could potentially change a lot of things. All of our forecasts were developed with the

634
03:15:10.160 --> 03:15:27.760
baseline assumptions that uh operations would continue as they are. Of course, a lot of changes will have to happen. There's not nearly been enough time nor direction uh to what service levels would need to be changed and to factor that stuff into the outyear. What you're

635
03:15:27.760 --> 03:15:43.840
seeing here is a forecast as if it were not to pass. If it does pass, obviously that would require a lot of workshops, a lot of discussions and dialogue with council after it passes of what service level changes we're going to make in

636
03:15:43.840 --> 03:16:00.479
order to have the cost reductions that will be required to make the budget balance. Uh the structure we're using today is a similar structure to what we've always done before. I won't read through this list. You've seen these enough times. Uh these are the assumptions that are

637
03:16:00.479 --> 03:16:16.880
included in this presentation for taxable value 5 a.5 to 5% depending on the fund. Uh that's that's the numbers that we've actually received uh from the property appraiser for the June 1st values. >> I think we need to get a quorum.

638
03:16:16.880 --> 03:16:50.399
>> We've got uh three members out so we need to wait for a couple of them to come back in. Sorry. And they can hear me in the back if uh council is waiting to restore a quorum. >> Uh continuing on the the state revenue

639
03:16:50.399 --> 03:17:08.239
sharing uh we've seen we've seen an increase this year. these numbers. I'm not going to go over each one. Oh, other than investment income, I will point that out because it's we're back to the uh to uh on the investment income. There's going to be uh something that you see when we go

640
03:17:08.239 --> 03:17:24.640
forward on the forecast where we're seeing a decline and that's because interest rates. We're in a declining interest rate environment compared to where we were a year ago. The Fed has lowered uh overnight interest rates. that has a big impact on our portfolio to the point where I've actually put what I expect yields to be on our

641
03:17:24.640 --> 03:17:40.880
portfolio for the next four years. We create this based off of the Fed's dot plot. The Fed governors come out and they tell us what they expect interest rates to be and they come to a consensus of now are they always right? No. But is there a better, more authoritative

642
03:17:40.880 --> 03:17:55.920
source than the Fed governors, the ones that actually set the rates as to what the expectations should be? I would argue not. they're the ones that are actually going to do it. So, we use those expected yields to determine what we should be budgeting for investment income. And that's why we'll see some of those decreases in our in our

643
03:17:55.920 --> 03:18:12.319
presentation today. Expenditure assumptions are the same ones that we talked about last time. I'll start with the law enforcement fund. Uh this is one is a little bit different because we don't do a 5-year forecast. We just forecast what this budget's going to be. Uh we don't get information from the

644
03:18:12.319 --> 03:18:28.479
sheriff on what their future budget requests might look like. So for us to to make a guess would just be that a guess. Uh with the rest of our forecast, we have some baselines and assumptions and and we build in future projects. We don't have that kind of information for the sheriff's office. So we just present

645
03:18:28.479 --> 03:18:44.960
uh the current year picture. Uh holding a flat millage rate of 1.5994 would generate an additional $5 million of advalor taxes. uh he's generating uh his his allocation

646
03:18:44.960 --> 03:19:00.319
to unincorporated area services increases by $3 million this year. Um he we we have a consultant years ago that between the county and the sheriff's office we worked together to come up with an allocation methodology for how much of his budget is countywide

647
03:19:00.319 --> 03:19:15.760
services and how much of it is unincorporated services and this is following that methodology. The municipal contracts also increased reflecting the the increased cost of providing service to those municipality contracts. The airport contract as well.

648
03:19:15.760 --> 03:19:32.880
Uh the schoolboard contract he is held steady. Um I don't have any background to that. I just get the numbers from him. If you wanted more information, we could go back to that and ask him. Outside detail is now exclusively the contract between the where corrections

649
03:19:32.880 --> 03:19:49.200
in some cases uses the sheriff's office to do hospital duty detail. That is what this outside detail is. His his regular what most police departments would you'd expect to see for outside detail when they do work for private businesses is actually managed by a third party. Now

650
03:19:49.200 --> 03:20:05.200
it's held exclusively outside of the sheriff's office. They contract with that third party. They pay the third party. The third party pays the deputies. The sheriff's office is completely outside of the typical outside duty details. So, this is just that that contract with us. I won't go

651
03:20:05.200 --> 03:20:22.479
through the other two lines. I'll hit the highlight of the transfer to the sheriff's office. That's his budget request. Uh last year was $154 million. This year is $168 million. Uh that is a $14 million increase, but 4.4 million of it is a is a should I

652
03:20:22.479 --> 03:20:38.880
believe will be a one-time increase. He's he's uh his his CFO has shared with us that um they need one-time money to set up their own uh health insurance program. Um they are uh leaving the county's health insurance program effective

653
03:20:38.880 --> 03:20:54.399
January 1st of next year. And to set up their own self-insured program, they need funds to set up a reserve. By state statute, when you have a self-insured insurance program, you have to have a 60-day reserve. And that's that's on top of any claims that have been incurred

654
03:20:54.399 --> 03:21:10.640
but not paid. So you have a full year of claims and a 60-day reserve that you have to have that first year. So that 60-day reserve is kind of seed money or startup money and that's $4.4 million uh of their of their request.

655
03:21:10.640 --> 03:21:25.840
>> Can you hold up right there? Did you have a question about that? >> Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair. does because we have to give the $4 million that's separate from everything else. Correct. >> Everything else we give to the office. >> It is all going to be part of his

656
03:21:25.840 --> 03:21:42.080
combined budget request. He's going to use 4.4 million of it to set up his self- insurance fund which >> But is that going up by 4 million? >> He doesn't have a self- insurance fund right now. He has to set up that fund without getting too detailed into the

657
03:21:42.080 --> 03:21:57.200
accounting of it. It will be considered an expenditure. from the county side >> from his budget. He has to make an expenditure from his government budget to contribute itself. >> How does that affect us in our required reserves? Will it be will we'll be able to offset that in any way in the amount

658
03:21:57.200 --> 03:22:12.880
of reserves that we would require and would it release some funds to us? >> Our when when the sheriff's office leaves our health plan uh effective January, that means that we will have to have less reserves because our average claims for 60 days will decrease. So,

659
03:22:12.880 --> 03:22:29.680
it's it could be potentially a wash. >> Could be. Um, our health insurance program, remember earlier on the slide that I kind of zip by said that we have to have a catchup. Part of that catchup factors in having to to make up for some reserves that were short and we are

660
03:22:29.680 --> 03:22:45.200
making up and planning just to be at that number that's needed without the sheriff's office. >> Without the sheriff's office still. So, so my statement probably still is correct. It'll may it may be a wash. >> There is an offsetting factor. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you.

661
03:22:45.200 --> 03:23:00.800
>> Uh so the rest of these lines, the the sheriff's office facility management, those are projects that the sheriff's office requests that our facilities division does for them. The we use the sheriff's millillage to pay for that. And one new line that we factored into

662
03:23:00.800 --> 03:23:16.319
the budget that the sheriff is also effective October 1st leaving our risk management program. And part of our prior risk management program was property insurance. There are property insurance premiums that are still attributable to the sheriff's

663
03:23:16.319 --> 03:23:32.640
office that they used to pay. He'll no longer be paying them out of the budget, but they are still attributable to the sheriff's office. So, I have put those costs in the sheriff's office, the law enforcement fund. So, that's a new line you see this year. It's not a new expenditure. It used to be paid for directly by the sheriff's office, but

664
03:23:32.640 --> 03:23:47.279
now that he's no longer part of our risk program, we're just paying it internally directly without cutting him a check and him cutting us a check back. >> Can I can I ask another question, Mr. Chair? Oh, I should have pressed the button. >> Yeah. >> Um maybe you or George. Um what is

665
03:23:47.279 --> 03:24:03.920
driving this? Is it an experience um that he's had or just a just a change in mind? In fact, he goes out of his way to praise the job that's been done, especially by uh legal and their team. Uh but it's been pointed out that uh

666
03:24:03.920 --> 03:24:21.359
he's the only sheriff uh left in in the state that is not in the uh sheriff's association program. So, he's going to go into that, but he's has high praise for the service that uh we've delivered and uh and we'll

667
03:24:21.359 --> 03:24:35.840
continue. So there'll be some things that are left over that we'll continue to work on um as well. So again, very good relationship with him. It's just a decision that I think he wanted to make to get with the other sheriff's departments.

668
03:24:35.840 --> 03:24:54.239
>> That's that's good to know. Thank you. >> So I kind of divide this slide into two subtotals. The green lines and and the orange or pink lines. the things that I attribute to as VSO core operations and then administration operations.

669
03:24:54.239 --> 03:25:09.600
We have to pay because it's a tax, it's a property tax, we have to pay property appraiser and tax collector commissions out of this fund. We don't attribute those to being law enforcement expenditures. They'd always been paid for by the general fund in the past. So, we continue to segment those out

670
03:25:09.600 --> 03:25:26.160
separately. So, we don't call them law enforcement. So, we transfer money from sales tax to pay for that piece. >> Oh, I got another one. Sorry, Mr. Chair. Go ahead. I >> I need to understand that a little bit better. You repeat that. It's there there expenses that we have that may be

671
03:25:26.160 --> 03:25:42.160
law enforcement related, but we don't want to call them law enforcement. Help me understand that. >> When you levy a property tax, >> repeat it. >> When you levy a property tax, you have to pay a 2% commission to the tax collector. If we didn't have a law enforcement fund, if we had just the general fund, those expenses would be

672
03:25:42.160 --> 03:25:57.359
called tax collector commissions. They wouldn't be called sheriff's office commissions. they wouldn't be attributed to the sheriff's office. So, we've had a an arrangement for the last three or four years. It's been in this budget every year that we don't attribute those part of the property taxes to the

673
03:25:57.359 --> 03:26:13.600
sheriff. We use the sales tax money to transfer in. That's the the the orange sections that you see in this budget. >> And the reason for that >> because if they if we didn't have a law enforcement mill, we would be paying for it out of the general fund anyway, >> which was more beneficial to us. It's

674
03:26:13.600 --> 03:26:29.200
for it's for transparency for the taxpayers to know that when they're paying for law enforcement, that truly is the portion that's going towards law enforcement. None of our administrative expenses that we would be required to pay anyway. >> Okay. So, there's an accountability for the department. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

675
03:26:29.200 --> 03:26:46.800
>> All right. I covered all those items that are on those bullets there while keeping the slide up. Next up is the echo fund. I will pause if there were any more questions on law enforcement, though. >> I don't see any. Go ahead. >> The echo fund is presented at its uh full uh maximum voter approved amount of

676
03:26:46.800 --> 03:27:02.319
0.2 mills across the forecast. Uh probably the most notable thing that I'll point out on this forecast is in the current year budget the estimate for echo grants is listed at $14 million. Uh as you know the echo program council

677
03:27:02.319 --> 03:27:19.279
went through a series of u recommendations and and approved some of them and didn't approve other ones. One of them was to increase the maximum grant amount. So with the maximum grant amount being increased, we have experienced uh a larger uh amount of grants being requested this year. The

678
03:27:19.279 --> 03:27:35.840
grant cycle actually just closed last week and we have approximately it's very close to 14 million. It's $13.9 million of applications for Echo grants that were just received. We expect that those would be awarded in the October time frame, part of the next fiscal year

679
03:27:35.840 --> 03:27:50.880
budget. That's why you see that $14 million line listed there for Echo grants. And that does use part of your reserves. That uh that blue line in the middle column, $5.5 million. That's reserves of ECHKO being used to fund

680
03:27:50.880 --> 03:28:05.920
part of those grants because the grant amounts are are larger. I we do expect uh a leveling off that it won't be $14 million every year. I think there was some pent-up demand due to some delays in on rolling out the grant program. So

681
03:28:05.920 --> 03:28:22.080
there are accumulations of projects. Uh so we've budgeted or forecasted, that's probably the right term, forecasted $8 million a year in the out years. Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. In light of the pending um charter amendment, I think we

682
03:28:22.080 --> 03:28:38.479
may have discussed this in the past, so I apologize if I don't remember. In the event the amendment passes, how do does it segregate out the echo fund uh assessment? >> If property tax reform passes, it changes your tax base. Doesn't change

683
03:28:38.479 --> 03:28:54.640
any of your rates necessarily. Of course, council can act on rates at any time. So if we um in the echo fund approximately 18% of the taxable value is related to homesteads that first 100,000 that would be the revenue lost

684
03:28:54.640 --> 03:29:12.160
to this fund essentially. Cumulatively in year two when you get to the two the full $250,000 it loses approximately 28% of its revenue. So that is uh 2.4 I think it's like 2.4 2.5 in the first year and 3.6

685
03:29:12.160 --> 03:29:26.800
six in the >> but it doesn't eliminate the program >> does not eliminate the program the program the program still exists >> those reductions aren't reflected in this >> they are not >> yeah that's why I was asking so I mean because >> I want my intent of the question thank you Mr. for for following that up

686
03:29:26.800 --> 03:29:42.479
because is I want to make sure that we don't overextend ourselves uh in issuing long-term echo grants that we may not be able to pay. If property tax reform were to pass in the future, you would have less money

687
03:29:42.479 --> 03:29:57.840
available to make echo grants and we would have to adjust the program at that point. I if you Yeah. by at least by at least a like he's saying a third and then you're gonna have the other question which again we'll get into

688
03:29:57.840 --> 03:30:14.560
later would be and this will be for whoever gets these grants if they're a government agency uh you know typically if you're expanding or putting something new into a park or a lot of these items can will you be able to afford to operate them? Yeah. And I guess I know

689
03:30:14.560 --> 03:30:30.160
we don't have many from what I can recall those multi-year grants. What is it called? The super grant or what? >> No, we don't have many of those >> exceptional. Yeah, there's one being considered from correct, right? >> We exceptional. >> We we >> Yeah, we don't even have any more exceptionals. That's >> council just changed the grant award

690
03:30:30.160 --> 03:30:46.319
amount from 600,000 to 2.5 million. That used to be the exceptional. >> Okay. I just want to make sure we're not, you know, extending our credit too far if that makes sense. There were I think some of the grants that came in at the 2.5 million, but they're all accounted for in this forecast for the 14 million.

691
03:30:46.319 --> 03:31:02.720
>> Now, the other thing is this program has been pay as you go and it's also been, you know, in theory there's a competition, but we've always been able to uh have more revenue than people have actually put in. That may change and it may become more

692
03:31:02.720 --> 03:31:20.319
competitive because what we get will be whatever you know does come in. All right, forever. Uh the math is the exact same on forever for the taxes, the implications of property tax reform.

693
03:31:20.319 --> 03:31:36.560
What you see here is uh we continue to set aside our 15% for land management, which manages all the lands that were acquired under this in the previous program. And we don't uh we don't budget for land acquisitions. We put all of the money into reserves and as individual

694
03:31:36.560 --> 03:31:53.600
land purchases are made, each time council approves a land purchase, we transfer out of that reserve balance. So the reserves is probably the most important number on this slide. That's the that's the number you have available for land purchases. And uh the number for FY27 is currently

695
03:31:53.600 --> 03:32:10.800
$18 million, but I would say that based on that policy of using reserves, we don't have anything budgeted, if there's any purchases between now and September, that would come out of that same $18 million bucket. Uh the the purchase that was approved a couple meetings ago for

696
03:32:10.800 --> 03:32:26.560
23 million really did draw down some of this money and council has previously approved. And if we get to a point where the $18 million is insufficient, uh that would start to tick up towards our need to bond, which was authority that was granted by the voters. And we

697
03:32:26.560 --> 03:32:43.680
now have that IRS uh resolution in place that allows us to consider anything that council approves from here until a year from now for bonding if that's something that council wants to do. that uh using up of the

698
03:32:43.680 --> 03:33:05.920
reserves that you're including the 15% uh maintenance fee. >> The 15% transfer is is on here. It's the second to the last line of the operating expenditures. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. General fund. Before I even

699
03:33:05.920 --> 03:33:23.600
show a slide, the background property tax reform looms. However, uh we did just get through five mini budget workshops in February through April, a review of our core services, seeking direction on what should and should not carry forward into the FY27 budget.

700
03:33:23.600 --> 03:33:39.680
There was one service level reduction that was requested by council and it was just approved today earlier on the consent agenda item related to votran. That saves our general fund $364,000 a year. that has been factored into this forecast. All the remaining services based off of

701
03:33:39.680 --> 03:33:56.399
the consensus that we saw on the deis are still factored into this budget. We have not made any service reductions based off of uh the feedback we received during those workshops. Uh the flat millage is what we've

702
03:33:56.399 --> 03:34:12.080
currently presented. The roll back revenue growth is $5 million and that that is the growth in the revenue that's associated with new construction and with population growth. The revenue that's generated above roll back of $6.1 million is approximately 3% which is

703
03:34:12.080 --> 03:34:26.800
less than inflation is. The FY26 adopted to FY26 highlighted changes that we'll go over in detail are the constitutional offices increased by $4.1 million predominantly driven by the new debt service payment for the

704
03:34:26.800 --> 03:34:43.840
Valuchia Sheriff's Office building. External expenses are up a million dollars and county departments for the second year in a row are presenting a budget that is down from the prior year. Which means that not only are we down, we had to overcome inflation and wage

705
03:34:43.840 --> 03:34:58.800
pressures, health insurance costs, retirement. We'll go through that in a minute. The total fund revenues and expenditures are estimated to be down by $3 million. First slide shows you the the advalor tax number that I was showing there. At

706
03:34:58.800 --> 03:35:16.000
a flat millage rate, it's an 11 million increase in revenues. 5 million from new construction, 6.1 million from valuation changes. sales tax and state revenue sharing combined are up a little bit helps us helps us uh uh fund the ongoing

707
03:35:16.000 --> 03:35:32.560
pressures of the external offices and and constitutional offices and our own internal pressures. Hospital district Medicaid contributions are up, but that's only because the costs are up. As you recall, we split 79.05% 05%

708
03:35:32.560 --> 03:35:48.479
with the hospital districts to pay our state required Medicaid contribution. When the state's budget requirement or their what they make us pay goes up, we in turn ask for 79% of that increase back from the hospital districts. So, while there's a $300,000 increase in

709
03:35:48.479 --> 03:36:03.920
revenue, there's a $400,000 increase in expense. Uh the only other item that I would highlight here is what I've highlighted in orange, and that is investment income. The budget this year was $7.7 million. The budget projected for next year is

710
03:36:03.920 --> 03:36:22.160
$5.5 million. And that uh comes from two different sources. I'll cover that when we get to that slide. And then the one-time revenues. Last year, we transferred in uh the closure of some CARES Act money and some ARPA act money, and we transferred that into the general fund. That's the $10.8 million that you

711
03:36:22.160 --> 03:36:37.600
see in that budget. And we also used $19 million worth of reserves to balance the budget. This year we don't have similar funds to close for ARPA and CARES Act. We do have uh one FEMA related fund that we're trans Hurricane Irma that we're transferring in $2.2 million that was

712
03:36:37.600 --> 03:36:54.880
related to 250 North Beach Street. I'll actually take a second to say uh we had some concerns about FEMA and Hurricane Irma and all that stuff. Uh what ultimately came of that was FEMA ended up denying our claim. What we

713
03:36:54.880 --> 03:37:11.200
ended up getting was insurance proceeds and we got $2.2 million of insurance proceeds. Since that project, uh, that building, what we're working on in that area is the courthouse. The reason I'm transferring that or recommending to transfer that $2.2 million in is because we've already funded the first $5

714
03:37:11.200 --> 03:37:27.680
million of the courthouse in the previous budget. So, it makes sense to utilize some of that insurance proceeds to do that. The other $16.1 million is onetime money that we're using to balance capital. Also, uh, Councilman Kent is not here,

715
03:37:27.680 --> 03:37:44.800
but I have left the military components on the bottom of the sheet. Last year, he had spoke about making sure that, and I think in Orman, they actually did an actual split or a transfer of their money between capital and operating to make sure that they're not funding

716
03:37:44.800 --> 03:38:01.520
recurring expenditures on the back of capital expenditures. because if you decrease your capital expenditures too much, you might end up in the deferred maintenance situation. It's not a good place to be. So he was astutely pointing out that you need to have capital money that's devoted in

717
03:38:01.520 --> 03:38:17.040
your millillage. And we are continuing to have approximately 0.25 of our millillage going towards capital expenditures in this recommended budget. It actually uh decreases in the outy years, but that's only because the capital requests decrease in the out years. That's when you see the additions

718
03:38:17.040 --> 03:38:32.960
to reserves which we would expect to be potential future capital projects that get identified in future years. Um I will mention that on this slide I mentioned before that the uh $6.1

719
03:38:32.960 --> 03:38:48.880
million that we get from holding the rate flat, that part that's related to value appreciation, that part that's not related to new construction is about 3%. CPI for May versus May is 4.2%. And if you were to average it in because May's been a little bit higher than some

720
03:38:48.880 --> 03:39:05.439
of our previous months. So if you take a six-month average and you look at the average for the last 6 months to a year prior to that, it's 3.1%. Either way, 3% value increases is in line with inflation. And for the first time in this budget, I've bolded this, we

721
03:39:05.439 --> 03:39:21.840
actually have major capital that we are funding with recurring revenue. If you've been listening over the last few years, we've been funding most of our major capital with reserves. Reserves aren't there forever. You use it for this capital project, it won't be there for the next capital project. So

722
03:39:21.840 --> 03:39:38.000
eventually, you have to fund major capital with uh ongoing revenues or you don't do major capital. Uh our largest source of um major capital is dedicating $10 million set aside for the courthouse this year. But our second largest expense is the $5

723
03:39:38.000 --> 03:39:53.600
million annual contribution for roads. That's a recurring expenditure. We really should be using recurring revenues to fund the recurring transfer for roads. And this budget actually does that. We finally have gotten to that point. We factored it in and it's part of last year's budget, but we were using

724
03:39:53.600 --> 03:40:09.520
one-time money to do that. >> Ryan, yeah, let me Oh, you you're showing a $6.1 million increase in revenue. That's because of increased property values. But that would also, just to be

725
03:40:09.520 --> 03:40:25.600
clear, would also indicate that that's a $6.1 million tax increase spread out throughout the county of various properties. >> That is $6.1 million of additional taxes that would be on existing properties. Yes.

726
03:40:25.600 --> 03:40:40.720
>> Okay. >> Let up, Mr. Chair. >> Yes. I think also if I to make sure I understand a couple lines down, you're saying that that three that's 3% what the the chairman just described, but

727
03:40:40.720 --> 03:40:56.640
you're also saying that our cost based on if you just want to look at CPI has gone up 3.1%. >> For the year. >> I'm not saying our costs have gone up 3%. I'll show you where the county's expenses have actually gone down. Oh, okay. >> I mentioned before as part of the headline that the county department

728
03:40:56.640 --> 03:41:12.960
expenditures are down. We do have an additional debt service payment to make this year for the sheriff's office. The constitutional officers and the judiciary related expenses are up. External expenses are up. Some of our other the investment income is down. I'm glad to report this year, we'll fast

729
03:41:12.960 --> 03:41:28.720
forward in in a bit, that the beach transfer is is relatively stable this year. So that's last year remember we faced some challenges with that and how do we make up for that revenue was really like a budget issue. The only revenue issue we have this year is investment income and that's due to

730
03:41:28.720 --> 03:41:44.000
declining interest rates. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Chair. >> Investment income. Speaking of uh as we use up our reserves that leaves less cash available for us to invest, which that's part of why our investment income

731
03:41:44.000 --> 03:41:59.840
goes down, but the bigger part of it is the decline in yields. Over the last year, the Fed has decreased invest uh interest rates by 75%. And we factored in future expectations as well. I already covered those lines. Here is

732
03:41:59.840 --> 03:42:16.160
the elected offices uh and external expenses. Uh the property appraiser has pretty much held the line. It was a $40,000 increase. Tax collector. Uh what you're seeing here is a function of the tax collector. We pay

733
03:42:16.160 --> 03:42:31.120
commissions. So if property tax revenues go up, then commissions go up. So you're seeing the increase related to the commissions going up. Uh elections, supervisor of elections did submit a $400,000 increase.

734
03:42:31.120 --> 03:42:48.319
Uh I believe about 800,000 of it was related to capital for replacing ADA voting machines. >> You say ADA >> ADA. Uh the small line that we have for office of the sheriff that still remains in the general fund as a result of the

735
03:42:48.319 --> 03:43:03.120
participation agreements. When we transition for amendment 10, the sheriff's office in in the county through the county council approved a series of participation agreements. We agreed to pay for certain things until uh certain leases until those leases end. So there's a small portion of it

736
03:43:03.120 --> 03:43:19.279
that's still in the general fund. You can see our new debt service payment of $2.3 million. And then the judicial clerk and guardian ad item is the second biggest increase. There's actually quite a few things that make that up. It's not a single line item. The the clerk's

737
03:43:19.279 --> 03:43:35.840
budget in uh request of us increased by 130,000 or about 3%. Uh we fund local funded court programs uh like drug court or teen court uh pre-trial release. Those programs all have staff associated

738
03:43:35.840 --> 03:43:49.920
with them. Those staff we factored in across this forecast a 3% wage increase. There's an increase related to that. They had an increase in capital. We are required under article five of the constitution to fund public defender

739
03:43:49.920 --> 03:44:06.479
and state attorney's office uh it and they've experienced increases in their uh software contracts. So we're required to fund those increases. Uh there's a couple other ones I don't remember off the top of my head but it's not a single line item. It just added up

740
03:44:06.479 --> 03:44:24.640
to about $89 difference. And it is it is a big impact of the 4 million. So, I highlighted those in in pink. That's 48.7 million versus 52.8. That's a $4.1 million increase in external or sorry, elected office expenses.

741
03:44:24.640 --> 03:44:40.960
On your external expenses, I won't read each one out. You can see that they've all cumulatively increased. CRA payments is a big one. as as the CRAAS increase in value, if they increase in value faster than the rest of the properties increase in value, when you keep a flat

742
03:44:40.960 --> 03:44:57.760
millage rate, their val their cost increases. Like this is a 12% increase. Our property tax role only increased by 5%. That's reflective of the value in the CRAAS increasing faster than the value outside of the CRAAS. So, we're required to pay them more. If it excuse

743
03:44:57.760 --> 03:45:15.120
me if if it was this council's uh desire, how how can and this is probably for a future council meeting. How can we uh increase the rate of when we can retire CRAAS?

744
03:45:15.120 --> 03:45:33.279
>> I will defer to the county attorney's office. >> I know that's a whole another we're opening a Let me put this way. If the council is interested in hearing that, um, I could ask them now to vote and you could bring it back next meeting. How

745
03:45:33.279 --> 03:45:48.800
can we retire CRAAS? Because it's taking, we got to come up with $90 million of savings. This is $9 million here that is sitting there that we still have to provide all the services for, but we don't get reimbured for it.

746
03:45:48.800 --> 03:46:05.199
>> Yes, sir. I think this came up uh we sent a memo on it, I think about a year ago, maybe. So, we'll we'll dust that off and and send that back out to you about the possible ways you can handle the CRA. >> In addition to the the legal possibilities, I would mention that if

747
03:46:05.199 --> 03:46:22.239
you're uh if you have homestead properties in those CRA base areas and they are subject to that exemption, then our CRA payments will also go down if property tax reform passed. It will not be a uh >> it won't be a $9 million savings. >> It won't be a $9 million savings. by

748
03:46:22.239 --> 03:46:39.040
about probably about 20%, you know, similar to what the property tax role goes down. That's what I would estimate. >> Okay. >> Did I, Mr. Chair? Thank you for bringing up the subject. I think, you know, CRAAS, and I don't want to go down the rabbit hole. I don't think it's the right time, but um I'll add they're

749
03:46:39.040 --> 03:46:54.960
outdated. Um and you you know, we voted for one and we gave away a million dollars a year if you remember. And I said that what's what's that saying say they come anyway I don't want to say fight against but it's calling you know that frame they'll be calling and I

750
03:46:54.960 --> 03:47:12.800
reminded us then that the day would come here where we need that million dollars and we're here um but and I'll just leave with this is that I think the replacement for the outdated CRA dysfunction is allowing councils to do

751
03:47:12.800 --> 03:47:28.880
independent um partnership ship or agreements based on areas where we want to invest, right? It modernizes it more. But, you know, that's a topic for another discussion. But if we want to invest in an area, we can make that decision individually

752
03:47:28.880 --> 03:47:45.840
based on terms of of our agreement. So, anyway, I just I don't like them. Yeah, I don't like them. >> I'll note two other things on here. A bit of good news on the Sunreil line. Sunreil actually decreased by 300,000 and that is because the partners all the

753
03:47:45.840 --> 03:48:02.479
all the finance folks uh legal folks and the operations folks that worked on Sunrail all came together and basically questioned the state and got our budget down because right now we're the Sunrail CRC commission still relies on the state

754
03:48:02.479 --> 03:48:19.359
to actually provide that service and we pay based off of what the state's requests and needs are. So, we worked with the state to get that down. >> You're I have to add to that because you're being humble. A lot of that comes from the work that you did and with the

755
03:48:19.359 --> 03:48:35.520
working group and and getting that down. So, thank you for that. I'll leave that there. I want to give credit to other people, but I'll leave that. >> I know. >> Uh the cultural arts council uh notably

756
03:48:35.520 --> 03:48:56.479
we we took note it is not funded. That is a $600,000 savings. It helps balance this budget and leaves your external expenses uh increase of approximately a million from 40.3 to 41.3 million. Now, it's the county departments and uh

757
03:48:56.479 --> 03:49:13.199
transfers. I'll highlight the the headline first, the green number, county department budget 154 million currently. the the uh the 27 budget request is $153.9 million. It is a decrease in the face of inflation, in the face of contracts with

758
03:49:13.199 --> 03:49:27.680
CPI escalators, health insurance costs, retirement costs, everything else uh that we're faced with. I have a slide that goes over that in in detail. Uh maybe a couple things to point out as far as if you had any questions. The

759
03:49:27.680 --> 03:49:45.760
PEMT line, the estimate for that up a little bit. That's because the state didn't execute the PEMT program on time. So, we actually have to make up two years of it. We didn't spend it in 25. We have to carry it forward to 26. That's why that estimate looks out of line compared to the rest of that line.

760
03:49:45.760 --> 03:50:02.080
Uh the public protection line, uh good news, it is an increase, but there's a there's a good news behind that increase. Corrections is is almost fully staffed or is fully staffed depending on the day. And that means that we can't count on

761
03:50:02.080 --> 03:50:17.520
some of the vacancies that we used to budget for. So we have to fund the entire budget. Um Joe out that corrections has done and Randa together have done a great job in fully staffing the jail. There is a cost associated with it though.

762
03:50:17.520 --> 03:50:33.920
Uh one other notable thing we have defunded throughout this FY27 budget $1.6 million of positions. So positions that have been vacant for uh a period of time, we've went through

763
03:50:33.920 --> 03:50:49.680
and we've said those are not only frozen, but they're unfunded. We don't have the money to pay for them next year. Uh because we've done so much of that where we've just called it right out of the budget. It will make it harder for us next year to do the $5

764
03:50:49.680 --> 03:51:05.840
million that we've always put in. That blue line that you're seeing on the screen, we've always committed to finding $5 million of savings. Some of that comes from those positions that don't get filled. When we cut positions that have had a long time hard to recruit and we put that right into the

765
03:51:05.840 --> 03:51:21.680
gross budget in the lines above, then we're not going to be able to find those same savings. So, by cutting $1.6 million of positions, it has made it harder to find the $5 million of savings. So, we've reduced that line to to $4 million. Oh, before I go to that next slide, I'll

766
03:51:21.680 --> 03:51:37.920
point out like I said before, the total budget for the beach, the subsidy for the beach has declined uh from 17.3 million to 17.1 million. because it's a decline and it's pretty close. I didn't bring that forecast to you to actually show, but it will be part of your recommended or it will be

767
03:51:37.920 --> 03:51:54.399
part of a book that you get in the future. Uh 3% wage increase, FRS rate increases, health insurance, the correction staffing that I mentioned, uh the contract CPI escalators, they've all been absorbed by doing some of the

768
03:51:54.399 --> 03:52:09.520
other things that I've mentioned there, which are highlighted on this slide. So, the total cost pressures for wage increases, health insurance, retirement, and the correction staffing are about $5.6 million increase. Department reductions and cost shifts, $2.6

769
03:52:09.520 --> 03:52:26.720
million. Part of that is the $1.6 million of positions that we defunded. Another part of that is, if you recall last meeting, I mentioned that in the fire fund that station 15, the uh Tiger Bay station does hazmat and also does

770
03:52:26.720 --> 03:52:43.600
local calls. We've shifted that funding model to have the default place that it gets funded into the fire fund. That's going to save us a million dollars in the general fund. That's the other million of that 2.6 million. I mentioned the aggregate savings available adjustment due to the fact that we've made so much of those changes. Other

771
03:52:43.600 --> 03:52:58.319
operating and transfers. There's a whole list of things that make up that that piece. And then capital and carry forward rolloff. While the millage rate dedicated to capital is stable, we do have less capital expenditures that are in the county manager section of the

772
03:52:58.319 --> 03:53:15.279
budget uh predominantly in the facilities area. We've returned basically to a 2019 2020 level of facilities budgeting even in the face of inflation in that area. So we will have a little bit less money available to do facilities projects. But it's not it's

773
03:53:15.279 --> 03:53:30.239
not unsustainable. It's just back to the 2019 2020 levels. So it is a decrease in capital but I don't think it'll lead to any um adverse effects to our to our facilities. We've been pretty aggressive just in,

774
03:53:30.239 --> 03:53:48.000
you know, several years ago, we really started to invest in our older buildings and you see the work and so like what he's saying is we can cut it back a little bit and it shouldn't hurt us because of the work what uh Jim Corbett

775
03:53:48.000 --> 03:54:03.840
and and Janine Jennings and her team have done to uh you know again put us in good position where our buildings are in good shape. And we don't have to spend quite as much right now except the jail. Well, I was going to say the jail. There's always stuff going

776
03:54:03.840 --> 03:54:20.399
on at the jail. We could talk that later, but that's >> Yeah, the the major capital improvement items you see here are not part of the county department's budget. These are separate tagged items. We're using reserves mostly to fund these. Most notably, I talked about it last meeting, the $10 million. We label it a set aside

777
03:54:20.399 --> 03:54:34.800
for potential design. This is not a commitment to spend. It is just tagging part of our reserves as $10 million for judicial project. It there'll be a lot more discussions uh

778
03:54:34.800 --> 03:54:51.840
on that before we ever move forward. The corrections air handler replacement and fire suppression is actually a carry forward project. Go ahead. >> That is a carry forward project. It was $3.9 million in FY26. It hasn't been completed in this year. They estimate to

779
03:54:51.840 --> 03:55:08.080
complete it in next year. They did add $600,000 to the budget um due to inflation in in cost of projects. And then there's also the corrections window replacement project at $4 million. >> Okay. >> Vice Chair Reinhardt wants to question

780
03:55:08.080 --> 03:55:23.520
the windows >> on the windows. Now, I heard this correctly, George. And um that's something that's just ongoing. That's just going to I mean $4 million isn't going to replace you're talking about exterior windows or interior windows or all. Well, >> the reason why I asked that for full

781
03:55:23.520 --> 03:55:40.720
disclosure is you've seen them yourselves where they're they're stress cracked and and they've been in >> a lot of them are going to go away. What's going to happen? >> That's what I that's where I was going. Okay. So, because you don't have to have the lighting requirement. >> Exactly. So, what we're going to do is fill them. >> So, 19 just for full disclosure for

782
03:55:40.720 --> 03:55:57.760
people out there, there are windows in those cells, but they don't need them. That back in the old requirement of so much natural light had to be brought into the cell, those requirements have changed. So I was glad to hear that they are going away. Okay. Thank you. So that's what that for that money is going towards is removal and replace with

783
03:55:57.760 --> 03:56:13.199
>> brick >> whatever >> or whatever material. Right. >> Yeah. >> So if you want to see the light don't go to jail. >> The there's two projects that I look at as almost recurring capital projects. That's our energy conservation measures because we're budgeting for them in the

784
03:56:13.199 --> 03:56:29.920
outy years. And then the $5 million set aside for roads. Those are projects that since they're recurring in nature, it's it's best if we don't use non-recurring money to fund them. So, the projects that are that are uh nonrecurring in

785
03:56:29.920 --> 03:56:44.080
nature here are the $10 million set aside, the $4.5 million, and the $4 million. So, you got $18 million worth of projects. We have about $18 million worth of onetime revenue balancing this budget. So, we're funding these major capital projects not with current tax

786
03:56:44.080 --> 03:57:01.279
dollars, but with prior year savings. The uh the only project in the outy years is the FC train trestle dredging project. There are no other projects. That's why I mentioned earlier that we don't have major capital forecasted in these outy

787
03:57:01.279 --> 03:57:17.040
years, but something will come up I'm sure. Uh and that's where the gray line where you see revenues less expenditures. That's what we would have available in those years to fund those type of major capital projects if you didn't want to use reserves.

788
03:57:17.040 --> 03:57:35.680
This year we don't have an addition. We're using reserves to balance the budget. This is a summary of where the reserves are. Above it is a category summary. It's the same exact budget you just saw, but based off of category, personnel, operating, reimbursements, capital, etc.

789
03:57:35.680 --> 03:57:51.120
Uh on the reserve summary, the contingency reserves are budgeted at 1% of expenditures. The reserve for future capital is essentially the balance of reserves after your emergency reserves. So you have your general fund emergency reserve at 10% which is the council

790
03:57:51.120 --> 03:58:06.880
policy. I would note that FGFO sorry not FGFA GFOA the national not the Florida the national government finance officers association has a recommendation of 16% for fund balance council's policy is 10. We're funding it at the 10. the law

791
03:58:06.880 --> 03:58:22.640
enforcement fund equivalent emergency reserve. There are no emergency reserves in the law enforcement fund if we did have a big disaster. Uh it is foreseeable that there would be a law enforcement impact to that as well. And so we set aside an equivalent law

792
03:58:22.640 --> 03:58:38.160
enforcement fund emergency reserve. The balance is your reserves for future capital. The reserves are going down from FY26 to FY27 because again we're using them to fund or set aside money for that courthouse design and those

793
03:58:38.160 --> 03:58:54.800
corrections projects, but they do recover in the out years. >> Ryan, if you can go back to uh personnel services uh first describe that for me. What all is that covering?

794
03:58:54.800 --> 03:59:11.760
personnel services covers uh wages, salaries, benefits, those things >> proactively. The county manager has already and you've said we're not we're not filling unfilled positions, so that should reduce that, but it it goes up

795
03:59:11.760 --> 03:59:27.760
every year. Is that a reflection of standard raises every year or >> It's a reflection of the 3% wage increase and the cost of health insurance retirement rates. >> The the state relatively uh held retirement rates relatively flat. There

796
03:59:27.760 --> 03:59:44.720
was an exception and that is the high-risisk retirement rate. uh the high-risisk retirement rate increased uh about $500,000 in the general fund which was it's a state mandate of sorts and that was associated with the fact that the state legislature restored the cola

797
03:59:44.720 --> 04:00:02.160
on retirees for high-risk employees >> just for the high-risisk >> just for the high-risisk >> not for the rest uh I also want to point out one thing in the uh he mentioned the benefits Our intent going into this year

798
04:00:02.160 --> 04:00:17.680
is to hold the employee premiums the same. So last year if for health insurance, so they went up last year, but we're going to hold them. >> Good. >> Yeah.

799
04:00:17.680 --> 04:00:32.640
>> All right. I covered all that. So, uh, my conclusion on our on our general fund, reducing reducing the flat, uh, the millage rate below the proposed flat

800
04:00:32.640 --> 04:00:48.319
rate could could create, uh, fiscal exposure. Uh, as we go into an environment where our property tax base will be declining, declining the rate even further is like multiplicative on top of itself.

801
04:00:48.319 --> 04:01:06.520
uh there'd be a smaller buffer next year for all the cuts that we have to make. Flat rate present uh currently sits below growth and inflation and capital in the $5 million road program are now being funded by recurring revenue, not a draw on reserves.

802
04:01:07.439 --> 04:01:28.960
Before I move to the MSD, any questions? Put some 93 octane in that thing. >> Okay. The municipal service fund, a municipal services district fund is presented at a flat rate. You may recall in prior years that I mentioned that this fund has a

803
04:01:28.960 --> 04:01:46.160
future of of potential trouble and that's without property tax reform. That continues to be the case here. We are drawing down on reserves every year to fund operating expenses of this fund. But you look at the total reserves and we have a very high reserve position. So

804
04:01:46.160 --> 04:02:01.840
we can afford to draw $3 million of reserves for quite a while before it becomes a problem. So we're not recommending anything other than a flat rate. I'm not recommending a millage rate increase because we have a structural imbalance or anything like that. So there is potential trouble in

805
04:02:01.840 --> 04:02:17.680
the future without property tax reform. With property tax reform, everything is going to be relooked at. Um, but it's in the same place that it was last year. Uh, the sheriff's office budget is what drives this fund. Your property tax revenues are 22 million. Your transfer

806
04:02:17.680 --> 04:02:35.040
to the sheriff's office is 29. So, the property taxes don't even cover the cost of the law enforcement that's being provided in the unincorporated area. What's covering that difference is utility taxes and sales taxes which also pay for all the rest of the services that are done in the unincorporated area

807
04:02:35.040 --> 04:02:52.239
like animal control, westside mosquito control. A lot of your growth and resource management only occurs in the unincorporated area. So it's not budgeted in the general fund. >> Maintaining your local roads. >> Maintaining your local roads, >> dirt roads.

808
04:02:52.239 --> 04:03:08.399
>> Last fund is the storm water utility fund. It's our only non- taxing fund that we look at uh that we're looking at this year. We only bring non- taxing funds if there's something we need to point out and start a conversation about and and that is the the uh fee for the

809
04:03:08.399 --> 04:03:23.520
storm water uh assessment. Council did raise it, I believe, two years ago at this point uh factoring in this next year's budget without an increase. and uh its current forecast we would no longer be able to afford

810
04:03:23.520 --> 04:03:40.560
capital projects in FY30. Uh >> yeah, I just want to point out I mean Ryan's right. We we just wanted to start this conversation. We don't we're not expecting anything tonight, but it what you're going to see here or you're

811
04:03:40.560 --> 04:03:56.239
looking at is just about the time all those projects that uh from the studies and the work that we've been doing uh are converted into actual construction projects, you're not going to have any money in that fund to do that. So, we're going to have to really

812
04:03:56.239 --> 04:04:11.600
address that. Most of the cities are are are addressing that and we'll have to do the same. uh you guys had directed us before we uh when we had talked about it uh and we didn't you didn't raise it as

813
04:04:11.600 --> 04:04:29.319
much as we had asked but I think you know the direction at that time was come back when when you have those projects so that's what we're setting it up to do we'll be showing you as they come out uh uh what needs to get done so that's the purpose of today.

814
04:04:32.560 --> 04:04:48.640
So the next steps are we will receive the final values from the property appraiser on July 1st and we'll be bringing the recommended budget at our July meeting July 21st at which time we'll have to set tenative millage rates for the trim notices

815
04:04:48.640 --> 04:05:05.359
and they those budget requests uh that recommended budget will be what you see here which as a recap was based off of service levels and directions for the 3 months worth of forecast that we went through. Three months worth of service level uh presentations that we went through.

816
04:05:05.359 --> 04:05:21.920
Any questions? >> Oh yes, Councilman Troy Kent. >> Thank you, Chairman. Just one brief one. Really, it's mostly for George. July 21st is our next meeting. I'm just double checking. That is an afternoon meeting, correct? >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Yeah, the four o'clock meeting. Yeah,

817
04:05:21.920 --> 04:05:42.720
>> you guys want Unless you guys want to go earlier. That's a busy day. One one other question on back to page 26 I think it is and you talk about reducing the military below the proposed flat rate creates fiscal exposure.

818
04:05:42.720 --> 04:05:57.680
Um it erodess reserves. >> That's my way of saying we're already looking at declining values. Your your tax revenue is values times rate. If you're already potentially about to

819
04:05:57.680 --> 04:06:15.120
have a big decrease in values, if you also have a decrease in rate, it's going to make it even harder to make the reductions next year. That that's only true if we don't look at spending. If we reduce spending, then a

820
04:06:15.120 --> 04:06:32.160
reduced rate is more feasible. >> If we reduce spending and we look at service levels so that we can fiscally sustain, >> it'll affect them. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But we have really difficult decisions ahead. Sooner or later, we're going to have to to make them. Um,

821
04:06:32.160 --> 04:06:49.279
>> it it ties in because like I'm like I I've mentioned it a few times and it's on purpose. Service levels drive budget. We just got done with a threemon series looking at service levels and we didn't we didn't get any feedback to reduce service levels. So, we're going to need

822
04:06:49.279 --> 04:07:04.560
that. >> Okay. When's your deadline for that? not reducing ser service levels of you just said reducing spending levels. This council could could still give you recommendations for reducing spending

823
04:07:04.560 --> 04:07:20.479
before you give us the budget >> last meeting. >> I mean you you can give them going forward but we're going to go forth with a budget as our direction tonight. uh and of course we have adjusted it

824
04:07:20.479 --> 04:07:34.800
you know after that but the the published budget will come out based off of what we've talked to so far and then you know what's happened in previous years in uh August there's usually some more conversation and then of course

825
04:07:34.800 --> 04:07:52.160
final conversation in September at the actual hearings >> budget's not set until the final hearing in September >> that's the answer >> but as far as the recommended budget That's the very next meeting. So if there's changes you want to see based

826
04:07:52.160 --> 04:08:08.239
off of what we just presented, we need to hear them now. >> Okay. >> Thank you for making that clear. >> Good presentation. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh we have before we vote on anything or

827
04:08:08.239 --> 04:08:23.439
give any direction, we have one member of the public who wanted to speak. If he's still here, is Gary Singleton here? He left. Okay. Then we don't have any members of the public wanted to speak on this.

828
04:08:23.439 --> 04:08:39.439
Uh we don't need a vote to approve this. The council or the staff put this on uh the agenda for direction. Um so and you heard what was just said. If you have uh spending recommendations,

829
04:08:39.439 --> 04:08:57.880
they they need them ASAP. So, um, that concludes item 10, unless there's any other questions from anybody, which brings us to the final, uh, public participation.

830
04:09:06.960 --> 04:09:42.640
And we have a couple. Uh, John Nicholson That was an awful lot. Um, so it's not really a hund00 million. It's only sort of kind of a hundred billion if the thing passes. sort of

831
04:09:42.640 --> 04:09:57.279
I have a hard time understanding budgets. My mother was an accountant and I when I ran a business I always gave it to somebody else to do. But it still comes to the fact that uh

832
04:09:57.279 --> 04:10:17.199
it appears that Tallahassee not only does not want us to have home rule, he they don't want us to have any money either because no matter how you look at it, only 100 million is not

833
04:10:17.199 --> 04:10:35.680
only a h 100red million to a lot of us in the public. It's still a lot of money. It's still a loss of something. I don't think any of you guys are going to propose fire, police,

834
04:10:35.680 --> 04:10:56.960
uh, services of any kind. Um, you've got votan public libraries, leisure services, recreation. Which of those do you feel comfortable cutting? And I know I've teased you guys about

835
04:10:56.960 --> 04:11:14.479
finding a Republican. All right. Uh, it's a Republican governor who's proposing this. And I'm told that they are doing this uh with the knowledge that it's going to fail. All

836
04:11:14.479 --> 04:11:31.920
right. That the public will obviously not vote against will vote for this. And uh whether they vote for or against it, we're going to lose. All right. Um because you're being

837
04:11:31.920 --> 04:11:49.520
tight with your money. All right. I don't mind and I understand and I agree that the 25,000 homestead exemption 70 years ago was not a lot of money

838
04:11:49.520 --> 04:12:07.000
compared to today, but it was compared to the housing back then. My mother bought her house for 5,000, bought my f first house for 33,000. You can't get a house anywhere for $33,000.

839
04:12:08.080 --> 04:12:26.160
So raising to 150 would be fine. You would have to cut something back obviously, but with the development, etc., it really wouldn't be a big hit. So how do we convince the public? And I think

840
04:12:26.160 --> 04:12:51.199
that's what your job is, not mine. Convince them that we can't do this. Thank you. Susan Shiver, I'm sorry, Suzanne. I'm a little uh Suzanne Shyber, Dream Green Valuchia. Um

841
04:12:51.199 --> 04:13:06.880
I'm not sure that the council understands the level of advocacy that I've done along with some others. And um for me personally, it wasn't trashing anyone. I've spoken at the round table of

842
04:13:06.880 --> 04:13:22.159
elected officials. Um I think the flood mitigation. I met with five of you all um Chase Traymont, Nancy Miller, Mike Ponatowski, uh eight different cities and 10 cities

843
04:13:22.159 --> 04:13:38.720
sent letters of support back in March. Um you know, team Valuchia, poor Mr. Rectenwald has probably heard me deliver the same speech five times. It's got to get pretty boring. Um, I just want to say, um, when I met with

844
04:13:38.720 --> 04:13:55.279
you, Mr. Robbins, I didn't take it negative or positive. I had no expectations from you, but I did talk to you, uh, the same as everyone else. And um the only thing that I took away was

845
04:13:55.279 --> 04:14:11.439
you told me that I was going to need a lot of Republican votes. I think that was honest. I didn't take it as nefarious or I didn't even take it as political. This is seven Republicans for local government. You're the highest

846
04:14:11.439 --> 04:14:26.960
government in the county. Why would I not come here and speak numerous times? Uh, I don't think I've spoke as many as John Nicholson yet. And um, I don't plan on that, John. So, don't worry about the competition.

847
04:14:26.960 --> 04:14:42.560
Ain't going to happen. But, um, I I've spoken to just about everyone I could think of that I know. And if there was more time, I would talk to more people. I have literally talked to everyone that I could think of on both sides of the

848
04:14:42.560 --> 04:15:00.399
aisle, even. Um, I do understand we live in a red county and I do need Republican votes. You're right about that. So that's why I have come in here so many times to the highest government locally in Valuchia County. And Mr. Rectenwald, I appreciate you listening to me like I

849
04:15:00.399 --> 04:15:16.319
don't know how many times because he literally has probably heard me more than all of you and everyone else. So, um, I'm not going to apologize for advocacy. I'm not um

850
04:15:16.319 --> 04:15:32.880
I would just say it's unfortunate as to what happened tonight. Um I do appreciate Mr. Brown's legal, straightforward advice answering your questions. So, um

851
04:15:32.880 --> 04:16:01.359
thank you all for your time. >> Thank you for your advocacy, Katherine Pante. Good evening, council. The county council and charter review commission continue to emphasize that Valuchia Foreverland has never been sold and that

852
04:16:01.359 --> 04:16:17.279
their proposed amendment strengthens protections by requiring a supermajority vote and enhance public notice before any sale. However, that is not my concern. My concern is the loophole created in subsection 3, which allows conservation land to be used for a

853
04:16:17.279 --> 04:16:33.040
county public purpose. This provision effectively eliminates the requirement for both a council vote and public notice. Notably, this critical exception was intentionally omitted from the ballot language, meaning voters will never see it when casting their ballots.

854
04:16:33.040 --> 04:16:48.319
Omitting such a significant provision from the ballot language is deceptive and prevents the public from fully understanding the amendment's implications. Florida statute 12535 establishes the baseline requirements for sale, conveyance, or lease of county

855
04:16:48.319 --> 04:17:05.040
property. Under that statute, a simple majority vote of the council is required along with public notice published in the newspaper for two consecutive weeks. Without this amendment, the county would still be required to provide this public notice. I will repeat, subsection three removes

856
04:17:05.040 --> 04:17:22.080
the council vote and public notice requirements. Given the repeated assurances from council members that conservation land has never been sold, we be better served by relying on the existing protections in Florida statute 12535 rather than creating a new exception that weakens transparency and

857
04:17:22.080 --> 04:17:37.840
accountability. My concern remains the same. The county public purpose language in subsection 3. One council member and two charter review commission members have repeatedly signaled their desire to use conservation land for infrastructure projects.

858
04:17:37.840 --> 04:17:53.359
Those should be funded through impact fees. The inclusion of this exception creates a pathway for such uses without public oversiz oversight otherwise required. The purpose of conservation land is permanence. The definition of

859
04:17:53.359 --> 04:18:10.399
perpetuity is forever. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. That concludes public comment for the end of our meeting and opens it up to the county manager for Yes, sir. I have a couple items tonight. Uh first off, you

860
04:18:10.399 --> 04:18:25.840
should have received at your desk uh we got a um a request from the Florida Department of Transportation and they need action on this item. um uh here very shortly. It it's uh their request

861
04:18:25.840 --> 04:18:41.199
for support that goes up to the US Secretary of Transportation for their I4 Ultimate Improvements. Uh they're specifically looking uh to get funding for the segment north of 434,

862
04:18:41.199 --> 04:18:56.560
which they're now calling uh the from the ultimate improvement to the northern section. So, this will come up into Valuchia County. Uh I know one of the projects that's uh really pushing forward would be uh to widen the bridge

863
04:18:56.560 --> 04:19:13.520
over the St. John's River and improve the uh Dirkson interchange will be part of that. >> Move to approve the letter. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Uh we have a motion to approve a letter uh by David Santiago, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt.

864
04:19:13.520 --> 04:19:28.800
Uh all in favor, please say I. >> Any opposed? And that carries six to zero. >> I just uh also wanted to mention uh Lyn Flanders brought this forward. Uh the Ocean Center is going to host a

865
04:19:28.800 --> 04:19:44.800
community kickoff event July 1st to celebrate America 250 and Daytona Beach's 150th anniversary. It's a public event at the Ocean Center Lawn from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. for free concert that'll be featuring uh three local bands. So, we

866
04:19:44.800 --> 04:20:01.359
encourage anyone to bring a lawn chair uh and enjoy uh an evening of music as we also try to continue our series of of interacting uh with the local community with our give uh our local bands some exposure as well. >> What's the date of that?

867
04:20:01.359 --> 04:20:19.199
>> Uh July 1st. >> July 1st. >> Okay. Uh lastly, I can provide a more detailed report, but I want to say, you know, there was a mention today about this uh storm water. In all of my uh

868
04:20:19.199 --> 04:20:36.399
um weekly briefings to you, I we try to highlight one or two projects, but I I want to say the road and bridge division, uh which I think we have Lori here tonight, uh they have full-time crews. That's all they do. So there

869
04:20:36.399 --> 04:20:54.399
there's constantly uh crews out there that are in uh I think we have something like over a million feet of uh canals and dishes. So they're and they're constantly in them. Um you they have a they have a schedule

870
04:20:54.399 --> 04:21:11.120
that's based on need based on what they inspect. I think I've mentioned it before. We inspect our canals and ditches I think eight times more than the national engineering standard that's out there. So we do a lot of inspection uh because things change. I mean every one of these

871
04:21:11.120 --> 04:21:27.680
thunderstorms or something that we have a tree could come down into the canal something could happen. So they have to constantly go back around. But they have a schedule. They're constantly on it. Uh they have crews on the east side and the west side. It's a huge county. So, you

872
04:21:27.680 --> 04:21:43.120
know, they're often working in areas you don't see them. A lot of these canals and ditches go out through the woods and so they're out in those areas as well. I think someone mentioned something about Deep Creek. Some of the things get confused, by the way. Uh they're not necessarily canals and ditches. They are

873
04:21:43.120 --> 04:21:59.279
actual natural streams which we don't maintain those. those we have to get uh if we get special grant money from uh the University of Florida and the USDA that they have a program for that uh of course at one time the state used to do

874
04:21:59.279 --> 04:22:16.000
a lot of that if it was ne if it was a navigable uh waterway they would do that they have cut back and I think you know we've had some folks in here before uh talking about some of the uh cases of that like up along Lake Talmage so but I just want

875
04:22:16.000 --> 04:22:33.120
to assure the council So that they're that they're out there all the time and uh they're definitely uh have upped their game, but they've always had good game on it. And and I will also say the mosquito control ditches, remember they were built for mosquito control purposes

876
04:22:33.120 --> 04:22:49.760
and there is an issue uh that was brought out. I mean a lot of them are used unfortunately for drainage conveyances and so it prevents it it it provides a kind of a tricky uh uh funding issue for us because you got

877
04:22:49.760 --> 04:23:05.279
mosquito control uh which needs with their mission is to control mosquitoes and the maintenance of those canals and ditches is different than full-blown drainage. So, we try to work together, but we have areas where we don't have um

878
04:23:05.279 --> 04:23:21.680
you know, for instance, uh mosquito control is kind of they're taxed on the entire east side. So, you can use that part, but our storm water utility, which we just mentioned a minute ago, that's only in the unincorporated county. So, in some of these, you have to figure

879
04:23:21.680 --> 04:23:37.199
out, well, how can we how can we fund these things uh given the the different types of funding mechanisms that we have? But we we're out there all the time. We have very specialized equipment. Uh and I can assure you that

880
04:23:37.199 --> 04:23:53.279
uh they're going as fast as they can keep that equipment going. But a lot of people um if they don't see us for a while, they don't think we're out there, but they're out there. They have again they're all it's a we have crews but you you you dig these things and you clean

881
04:23:53.279 --> 04:24:08.399
them things uh you know hundreds of feet at a time but remember there's millions of feet that you got to get to. So, just want to remind everybody, you know, of that and we'll continue and we have um mapping

882
04:24:08.399 --> 04:24:24.720
that I know they've talked about um and a dashboard that's coming uh if it's not already out there where you'll be able to see more and more where those projects are and what those ditches are. Uh that was uh provided I think at the last round table meeting and so uh more

883
04:24:24.720 --> 04:24:40.479
of that to follow so the people will be able to see exactly where they are working. I'm missing >> George is part of the sometimes the confusion on Deep Creek is a lot of those conveyance canals are on

884
04:24:40.479 --> 04:24:56.560
private property. Well, you have that too, right? There are there are canals that are totally uh owned by other other people. So, uh and you see some of that out in the Samsula area because there were canals and ditches that were built to drain

885
04:24:56.560 --> 04:25:13.439
farmland. Uh and so uh then many of those go back and we have no uh rightaway or no um easements or anything to be in there. So again, we have used some specialized federal funding to help

886
04:25:13.439 --> 04:25:34.159
out with that, but uh in some cases they are they're just not ours to maintain. Right. All right. That's all I have. Yep. >> Okay. County Attorney Nothing to report. >> All right. Thank you. Then we'll start

887
04:25:34.159 --> 04:25:50.720
with uh council members, vice chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, chair. Um first thing, Ben, can I call on you for a second? Thanks, man. Thank you, George, for bringing up the canal systems, and I know it is important. Um I personally live on the

888
04:25:50.720 --> 04:26:07.120
B19. B19 is a very, very large, and you could probably give me how many miles it goes. And it it's multi-ity if I'm not mistaken. >> Yes sir. It runs from where near where you are which are the headwaters from the Daytona International Airport all the way down through Port Orange. >> All the way through Port Orange. So

889
04:26:07.120 --> 04:26:24.399
that's a very large canal system. Um some of which is maintained by the city of Daytona. >> Um there's some feeder branches and I can say that because my in-laws Yeah. But but the the backbone if you will is entirely maintained by the county. And I I will say, you know,

890
04:26:24.399 --> 04:26:40.159
there are things that do happen. Just for full disclosure, uh like uh George had had alluded to with trees drop down. If you remember, I called and said, "Hey, there's a tree down in my neighbor's part of the canal. I see it." And a day later, I'm thinking, "Okay,

891
04:26:40.159 --> 04:26:57.040
that tree better be gone." I go out there with my phone and oh, never mind. I didn't even see you. It was gone. So, I commend you for that. So, it is taken serious when people call and people report it. The canals are cleaned out. This is what I want to ask you. Deeper isn't necessarily better. Correct.

892
04:26:57.040 --> 04:27:12.800
>> Correct. Um, in a lot of places, you know, you're constrained by the water table, the tide, title conditions, all those kinds of things. >> So, those are, you know, we're a titly influenced county, so many much of that goes into a larger basin and therefore you're going to have that water

893
04:27:12.800 --> 04:27:28.800
backflow. If you dig it deeper, you have to dig it deeper the entire way, which is now associated with a cost, >> including any pipes that might be in there with >> movement of those pipes. >> Typically, you're going, we call them pipe inverts, but it's the bottom of the pipe, invert to invert. And make sure you got proper.

894
04:27:28.800 --> 04:27:44.720
>> So, thank you for clarifying that. But then wider, >> I don't want you taking my property. So, in order to do wider, you're talking about eminent domain and taking away people's property. And and I kind of like my backyard. So now you can take away as much as you want from the

895
04:27:44.720 --> 04:28:00.080
apartment complex behind me. I I'm not going to complain. But um but that being said, it would require that and that often times upsets people like me if that was to happen. So thank you for clarifying that. I just want to put that out there. But thank you for a job well done with maintaining those. So

896
04:28:00.080 --> 04:28:15.359
>> yes, sir. Thank you. >> The next thing um George, you spoke about the 4th of July or the 1st of July. Um, I will tell one one important thing that that Miss Flanders told me, bring your own chair. >> Correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, bring your own chair. So, I

897
04:28:15.359 --> 04:28:32.000
plan on being there. So, front row seat right right next to Troy. Um, the next thing I want to talk about, Troy, um, last meeting you brought up, um, Tammy Joe Baker and and it was brought up tonight by a constituent and

898
04:28:32.000 --> 04:28:46.800
I thank you for that. that happened right there in my district and uh since that time I have actually reached out and spoken with the family. I talked to the granddaughter Hannah. Um the family's taken it very hard obviously but we talked for a little bit about you

899
04:28:46.800 --> 04:29:02.800
know some of the safety measures that uh thank you Suzanne for letting me know um and thank you for letting me know what the other measures were that we are taking measures to to protect that better and there are some ideas for the future to do that which I won't get into tonight.

900
04:29:02.800 --> 04:29:17.840
But that being said, because of that horrific accident and the fact that she was a longtime county employee before she went with the private industry for the toll collection, um Tammy Joe Baker, um I'm just going to put it out there. I'd

901
04:29:17.840 --> 04:29:35.600
like to make a recommendation if it's okay with you guys, if I can get support on it, to kind of rename that ramp after her. >> So, I'll make that motion. Danny made the second. Thank you, Danny. >> East ISB,

902
04:29:35.600 --> 04:29:51.120
>> East ISB, the Dunlton ramp, the beach access ramp. >> And I know that there are some ideas about a park bench being placed there, and I love that idea, but I just think uh I'm going to use that word, Suzanne, in perpetuity. >> Can I can I interject?

903
04:29:51.120 --> 04:30:07.680
>> Sure. Uh I I'm supportive of the idea. Maybe we should direct staff to look at all the traps and pitfalls and what they may have to >> Absolutely. Bring it back to us and then we vote on it. Yeah, bring it back to bring back the information. >> Yeah, if I may, the my intent was to

904
04:30:07.680 --> 04:30:23.040
bring it back. Well, the following meeting, we're ready to bring back the naming policy that you guys had. >> Oh, that's right. That's right. Thank you. >> So, if if we could, I'd like to bring that back. Uh and then if you guys approve that policy, we would follow

905
04:30:23.040 --> 04:30:38.080
that procedure. Uh and how >> Thank you for reminding me of that. I had one other uh question for you, George, on that because it that is um it's such an important ramp. It would

906
04:30:38.080 --> 04:30:56.800
be great for a memorial. Um it also, and this is no disrespect for the woman that was killed, but it would also be a possibility to re actually rename the ramp for revenue purposes that we're going to need um in the future. Is it

907
04:30:56.800 --> 04:31:13.680
possible to do make it a memorial ramp that doesn't actually change the name of it? Uh but a memorial ramp like we had considered. >> Yeah, I think we definitely could look at that. I mean that's the type of thing I we should kind of hash out a little bit. I mean >> Okay.

908
04:31:13.680 --> 04:31:29.199
>> So I don't necessarily think you have to one has to preclude the other. So I think we can work uh together on that. >> Okay. Well, thank you and thank you for reminding me about that. I appreciate that. And the last thing I want to break up um and I'm putting it out there for

909
04:31:29.199 --> 04:31:45.680
discussion we talked in ad nauseium about it. I know um and I said it before there were a lot of aspects about the forever issue and the elatch model and I understand I've and listen I liked it. There were a lot of things I liked about it. I'm not going to rehash that. I'm not going to

910
04:31:45.680 --> 04:32:02.479
get into that. There were six different attorneys now that have come up to me and told me and I know what you what you said and I I respect that but I'm being told you know quite the opposite. But that that's irrelevant now at this point. So we voted on that tonight. And if this does pass

911
04:32:02.479 --> 04:32:18.960
um at the polls, is it possible that we can at least because one of the biggest issues I saw in this whole thing was public access and that whole issue about public access. So let's say that that goes forward. Say

912
04:32:18.960 --> 04:32:35.359
it does pass. Can we at least have the discussion about defining public access? And what I mean by that is your Florida area ratio, your uh limited functions directly tied to the protection ma and the management of that property, public

913
04:32:35.359 --> 04:32:51.199
access itself, security, conservation of the land, boardwalks, park ranger stations, things of that nature. We need to have some sort of instead of the broadstroke of what that is, at least define it. We're not saying we're changing anything. We're just going to define what that that's in

914
04:32:51.199 --> 04:33:07.279
that referendum. That's already there, but can we define that part of it is all I want to say. Can we discuss that? >> Councilman Santiago. >> Yeah, Matt, I you you and I were thinking the same because I was going to talk along those lines during my comments. So, I think we should have the discussion. >> We're not talking about changing anything, just defining it.

915
04:33:07.279 --> 04:33:22.799
>> Yeah. To have that discussion to what to define it to is what I mean and bring clarity to what >> even an ordinance that could that specifies what that is. >> Yeah. And I don't know what the answers are, but I think we should have the conversation. So I I'll make that motion to at least bring it back if this does in fact pass after it passes after it passes

916
04:33:22.799 --> 04:33:39.680
>> that we can bring that possibility of that discussion back. >> Bring it back at >> time whenever time whenever Yeah. We also you will also >> on all these properties you also put on a uh you vote on a management plan which is often where this stuff gets

917
04:33:39.680 --> 04:33:56.639
discussed. So there's already been and some of the properties that we have, you know, uh and of course they're constantly, you know, trying to stay up with things, but you've seen things like primitive campsites, you've seen things like you said, trails and pathways.

918
04:33:56.639 --> 04:34:11.600
>> Yeah. >> So, but we could but we can definitely bring that forward and and and maybe it's a list of things that you want to see in a management plan. >> Just define it better. Yeah. Define even define the management plan better. Absolutely. >> Right. >> Okay. Well, thank you. That that makes me happy. something we're working.

919
04:34:11.600 --> 04:34:27.279
>> If there's no opposition to that, we'll just approve it by unanimous consent. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Works for me. Thank you. And that's all I had. Chair. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, Councilman Robbins. >> Uh, Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just got one

920
04:34:27.279 --> 04:34:43.279
thing. Um, in in following up with your beach safety stuff, um, Matt, I'll just use that terminology. I I have a discussion that I'd like to share with you all and and ask for support for some options. Um I want to share a personal

921
04:34:43.279 --> 04:34:59.199
experience that I had this weekend um as it pertains to beach safety. Um in light of you know the the most recent death that we had, not just the mother, excuse me, the the the worker, but the the child that was killed a few weeks

922
04:34:59.199 --> 04:35:16.879
uh ago also. Um, I had the uh my my my family decided to do a birthday party at the beach for one of my granddaughters and you know they called me the paranoid grandpa and I'm like let's go to the non-driving beach but I got voted out so we went to the

923
04:35:16.879 --> 04:35:32.320
driving beach and you know my daughter isn't joking with me. Dad's going to be you know freaking out the whole time uh because I have six grandkids and so I I went I joked with them. I said, "I'm coming out with a whistle and red shorts." All right. Um, even though

924
04:35:32.320 --> 04:35:49.359
I didn't do that. So, we set up our our camp. We went to New Smyrna and we set up our two tents. Um, and we parked in the safe area where it says we're supposed to park. And then we set up our tents just outside of the driving lanes because we have driving lanes on the

925
04:35:49.359 --> 04:36:05.520
beach where people are supposed to drive. So we we we had our what I call my little family safety meeting with the kids and say you all stay from this side of the tent forward. That's where you stay. Nobody comes to this to the backside. And I even had my chair on the

926
04:36:05.520 --> 04:36:22.080
back side of the tent, you know, playing uh uh border guard, I guess you could call it. U and a few times we had the kids test the border and we had to correct them. You don't go that way. You stay over here. You play in this area. Yeah. If I played CO. So, we did that.

927
04:36:22.080 --> 04:36:38.320
Um, and then after maybe halfway through the day, we had a gap in between our tent and another tent, maybe about 20 feet, um, two jeeps come flying in. I'm exaggerating a little bit on the flying in, but they were, let's just say they were already

928
04:36:38.320 --> 04:36:53.279
violating the speeding rule, um, of the beach. They fly into our side and my family, my son-in-laws, and immediately we're like, "Hey." We start yelling, "What are you doing?" you know, whistling the cars stop and the response

929
04:36:53.279 --> 04:37:09.760
from one of the drivers immediately was, "Read the effing tag." That was what he said. You know, I mean, yelling that out, we're like, "What are you talking about?" You know, we don't know what's happening. Read the effing tag. So, like, it's handicap tag.

930
04:37:09.760 --> 04:37:25.760
And then he yells back, "I can drive wherever the f I want to anywhere on this beach." And we're like, "What is he talking about?" So, that was a few words that went back and forth. They decided to drive away and went up to another area,

931
04:37:25.760 --> 04:37:40.240
driving through the pedestrians that are in the safe zone and parked probably about from here to the the blinds close to the water because it was low tide. So, they parked there. So, I asked one of our staffers, I understand

932
04:37:40.240 --> 04:37:57.279
that we have uh an ordinance that allows people with disabled tag to drive anywhere on the beach. So, by the way, at the time that that car came flowing in, flying in, my six grandkids were playing in that area.

933
04:37:57.279 --> 04:38:15.199
So, um I Oh, we got somebody coming up. Maybe we can get some direct I first of all I want to know if that is an ordinance that we allow that and that's not safe and the reason I say that is because parents and me and myself we have the expectation when we go to the beach that anything that way is the safe

934
04:38:15.199 --> 04:38:31.840
zone because we have driving lanes and why if we had that ordinance if somebody can clarify that um I'd like for this council given the recent attentions um and I'm by the way I'm supportive of beach driving but we need to make beach driving safer because that could have

935
04:38:31.840 --> 04:38:49.359
been a horrific scene that I experienced and I don't want any family to go through it and this guy obviously if it's true has a privilege that he was abusing in my opinion the way he was acting and the way he drove is that permissible >> right so the beach code does establish the random TCI public protection um uh

936
04:38:49.359 --> 04:39:06.320
the beach code does establish that we can establish where the parking areas are um it does not speak specifically in legal please correct me if I'm wrong but um it does not speak specifically to where um disabled parking can be. Now, operationally, we have allowed um

937
04:39:06.320 --> 04:39:23.119
disabled parking to park east of the traffic uh or the travel uh lane or the traffic lane and as close to the water really as they can. Not to say that they can just drive anywhere that they want to. I think that would be uh probably an incorrect statement, but yes, they have been able to park um through an

938
04:39:23.119 --> 04:39:38.320
operational decision um east of the traffic. >> That's policy. >> That's policy. >> That's policy. So, so we can't >> typically that's just against the it's just on the east side of the lane, not not down to the edge of the water. Now, what's happened, of course, we have high

939
04:39:38.320 --> 04:39:54.160
tide. We have things occurring that that shrinks the beach, but but basically they can park on the east side, which is typically the flatter compacted side so that people can get out of their vehicle that are in a disabled situation with

940
04:39:54.160 --> 04:40:10.400
maybe a a wheelchair or some, you know, device like that. That that's the genesis uh of it. but that they can't go willy-nilly driving like they were trying to do apparently by your description. >> Yeah. And by the way, I don't want to

941
04:40:10.400 --> 04:40:26.400
take away any capabilities of someone who's disabled in a wheelchair or something like that having access to the beach. That's not the intent. I think the problem we have here is that the general public doesn't know that. I think it's fair to believe that most parents will know that this beach lane

942
04:40:26.400 --> 04:40:44.000
from here forward is the safe lane. It's the safety spot. So maybe maybe we could consider alternatives to that where there are designated areas where beachgoers like myself, I go once or twice a year or somebody near to the beach knows that from here it can be

943
04:40:44.000 --> 04:41:00.400
disabled parking uh privilege and cars can't cross that area because all you see when you drive in the beach, you see the signs that say drive lanes and right here I obviously I serve on this council. I had no idea they could do that, right? And think about a visitor

944
04:41:00.400 --> 04:41:17.760
coming here, right? They wouldn't know absolutely nothing. So, if we're going to allow that capability, is this council okay for staff to consider uh maybe designated areas with signage that people can come there and see that disabled vehicles or persons can use or

945
04:41:17.760 --> 04:41:35.440
park in this area. Obviously, that would have to be managed based on high tides and low tides, right? Clearly. Um, but if we have the signs that say drive lanes, we can there's nothing to stop us from having few more signs that say disabled or whatever handicap parking areas and

946
04:41:35.440 --> 04:41:50.638
not allow that anywhere else other than the designated areas. >> Councilman Kent, do you have a >> um Councilman Santiago, I couple of things for you. First of all, I I

947
04:41:50.638 --> 04:42:07.120
publicly applaud you for your vigilance in protecting your family, number one, and being the leader of that family. I I applaud you. Um, number two,

948
04:42:07.120 --> 04:42:21.920
I am sorry that you had the experience you had with someone who was um sounds like not only driving wildly inappropriately, but their language was again out of bounds and not okay for a

949
04:42:21.920 --> 04:42:37.600
wholesome day at the beach or anywhere. Um, I'm chairman, if I can have a little latitude, I'm going to give a a very quick true story of something I witnessed 22 years ago. I tell you that because my sweet baby boy is 19, getting

950
04:42:37.600 --> 04:42:54.240
ready to turn 20 and he's going to be having a fit when he hears that I called him my sweet baby boy at a council meeting and he's darn near 20 years old. But 22 years ago, I was on the beach with now my wife, but my girlfriend at

951
04:42:54.240 --> 04:43:10.080
the time, and we were down there, and what I'm going to tell you happened, in my opinion, no one did anything wrong. Sometimes there's just accidents. There was a person driving below the 5

952
04:43:10.080 --> 04:43:25.520
mile per hour, 10 mile per hour speed limit. Both hands on the wheel, windows down, paying attention. Radio not on. There was a mother holding her child next to the drive lanes, holding the child's hand. Child was holding the parents hand. There was a seagull that landed on the other side of the drive

953
04:43:25.520 --> 04:43:42.718
lanes. The kid darted out to go chase the bird and got bumped by the car. Child did not die. Looked like they had a broken collar bone. I witnessed the whole thing. I'm telling you this because you may or may not like my answer for you on what to do in the future, but I

954
04:43:42.718 --> 04:43:59.440
am a huge advocate for beach driving. And I made a decision right then and there that I would never take my child to a drive area of the beach while they were little children because the mom

955
04:43:59.440 --> 04:44:14.480
didn't do anything wrong. The kid didn't do anything wrong. The seagull didn't do anything wrong. The woman driving didn't do anything wrong. I mean, she was beside herself with what happened. Evac was there. Uh, back then, County ran the beach, of course, they were there. It

956
04:44:14.480 --> 04:44:32.638
was just an unfortunate situ situation and an accident, but I made the decision never until my boy Wyatt was about 10 years old. Now, we walked to the beach from our house. Not until he was over 10. I went to Tom

957
04:44:32.638 --> 04:44:48.080
Renick Park up abnorm by the sea. I went to Northshore Park Nor by the sea. I went to Andy Romano Park where there's no drive sections cuz it scared me what I saw. It scared me. And I'm sorry your family outvoted you. You should have

958
04:44:48.080 --> 04:45:03.360
used your veto power because when I have little kids with me, we don't go there. But in the future, I would tell you take your family to Andy Romano Park in Orman Beach. Take your family to areas of

959
04:45:03.360 --> 04:45:19.360
Daytona that are no drive sections because then you don't have to worry as much about what you're experiencing because those people with handicap placards, they do get to park closer to the water. And many of them, I mean, they absolutely use it appropriately.

960
04:45:19.360 --> 04:45:35.920
You had an unfortunate situation. I'm sorry that happened. It was it was not okay. I don't know if we as a staff, George, need to revamp everything because of of that. I think we would be better getting the message out to people. If you have

961
04:45:35.920 --> 04:45:52.798
little children, go to no drive sections of the beach. And that's listen, that was just the Troy Kent style. That's that's what I did. Uh, we didn't walk across the street until he was over 10 because I knew that I could twist him into a knot and he would listen to me,

962
04:45:52.798 --> 04:46:09.520
you know, and not run after a bird or something. I'm sorry that happened to you. >> Yeah. And Troy, let me bring clarification a little bit too to a couple things that to my colleagues because I'm going to make this statement first very clear. This is important to me, right? And I'm not doing it for me.

963
04:46:09.520 --> 04:46:24.480
>> I know you're not. I'm doing it for the thousands of other kids I seen on that beach. No matter what kind of signage we say, you know, it it's not going to make a difference. And and yes, I probably should have used they would have told me to stay home probably because I was

964
04:46:24.480 --> 04:46:41.360
freaking out at the beach. But the point here is we have set the parameters for an unsafe situation, right? Are we going now that we've had someone that ran through a a a toll collecting I forgot what we call it, but a toll collecting person, we're putting barriers in front

965
04:46:41.360 --> 04:46:57.040
of it. Are we going to wait for a child to be run over when a handicapped person goes into an area where the average person would believe that they are in a safe area that's not drivable?

966
04:46:57.040 --> 04:47:14.480
Because we say we the county says driving lanes. We don't we don't put that driving lane sign all the way at the water and on the side. So our visitors that come here think that cars can only be here. And

967
04:47:14.480 --> 04:47:30.000
George, going back to your point and and I think you're trying even if they could only go just east of the driving lanes, people don't know that. So you could have a tent just east of the driving lane and you have an open spot and your

968
04:47:30.000 --> 04:47:45.280
children are playing right there and someone can just pull up into the spot next to you east of the driving lane. So we have the conditions that scenario probably hasn't happened. Who would have ever guessed a toll booth? Someone would

969
04:47:45.280 --> 04:48:01.760
fly through it. They never would have guessed it. Maybe you know Lun's law, right? So when I seen that, I'm like, we can't allow this because we are setting the stage by lying to people, by saying that the driving lane is here. And again, I'm not trying to take away

970
04:48:01.760 --> 04:48:18.718
anything from anybody disabled having access to the beach. We have designated parking areas for disabled everywhere. Everywhere. And usually it's closer, right? And maybe that is I'm not going to tell staff what the ideas are, but maybe that is immediately when you go

971
04:48:18.718 --> 04:48:35.920
onto the beach ramp that there's a I don't know, I'm making numbers up. There's a 50 yard section where people can park east of the drive lanes and there's a sign there that visitors and everybody can see. Okay, cars can go here. So, I I know where you're going.

972
04:48:35.920 --> 04:48:52.638
Listen, I'm a freedom guy, right? But, you know, we have a privilege here of being able to drive on the beach in this county, which I support, but we have an obligation. Yeah. We have an obligation to make it safe, and that is not safe. Again, I

973
04:48:52.638 --> 04:49:08.240
just happen to see it because it happened to my kid, my grandkids. >> There we go. Uh, Mr. Chen, thank you, Troy. And I appreciate always. I didn't think you were against me. I just want to I'm a little passionate about this one cuz I seen it firsthand and I can see it happening again. And Mr. Chair,

974
04:49:08.240 --> 04:49:25.040
with that I I'd like to get support from my council to direct staff to look at options to address the situation that I just described. I'll just leave it there. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> I think we can approve that again by unanimous consent.

975
04:49:25.040 --> 04:49:42.480
>> Yeah. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Dempsey. >> Uh, just one thing. We had the lady um here first off today um talking about the issues with Little League and um as we've been discussing over the last

976
04:49:42.480 --> 04:49:58.718
three or four years since I've been here. Um there is a shortage of Little League fields and access and uh so um and affordability apparently too. I didn't know if we could all agree to have staff come back and give us a

977
04:49:58.718 --> 04:50:15.680
report on how our current rental rates compare to adjacent counties and municipalities and >> and just maybe give us a report on where we are and also uh give us a report on um the potential use of the landfill for

978
04:50:15.680 --> 04:50:32.000
little league fields. I know there's been some talk of other areas in the county, but you know, again, these kids are getting older and older, and it'd be nice to get them a place to play because I I I think the deficit or the the shortage is still there. So, it'd be nice to see if we could look at other

979
04:50:32.000 --> 04:50:47.680
options than the ones that have been presented. Yeah. So, a motion to have staff come back and give us a presentation on those two things. A >> second. >> Motion and a second and approved by unanimous consent. There you go. Nobody's against that. And no time certain. >> Oh,

980
04:50:47.680 --> 04:51:04.000
>> just soon. >> Sooner the better. Yeah. All the time you want, not a second more, right? Yeah. >> Okay. >> And that's all. >> Uh, well, since you mentioned that, can Mr. Santiago chime in about time certain on his idea with the beach getting that information back?

981
04:51:04.000 --> 04:51:19.680
>> Well, let's say time certain would give the next month, >> a month. A month from now. >> August, right? >> Yeah. The last meeting. Yes. Yes. July. A first meeting in August. >> Yeah. First meeting in August. Thank you. >> Because your July means already. It's the only one you're going to have and it's going to be stuffed. >> A month to get work done.

982
04:51:19.680 --> 04:51:34.480
>> I appreciate that with mine, too. >> Sometime in August. Yeah. >> Second in August. >> Thanks. >> Is that okay with staff? Did you you heard Mr. Dempsey? Okay. >> Thank you. >> Uh Troy, are you done or you need more time?

983
04:51:34.480 --> 04:51:55.840
>> First. >> Thank you, chairman. Um, yeah, just just briefly, uh, I just want to wish all of the good dads out there a happy Father's Day coming up. Um, my dad's getting ready to turn 80 and and he and I are getting

984
04:51:55.840 --> 04:52:12.240
ready to spend some time together. Um, I'm taking him away from all of his other kids, but you know, there you only have one dad and I got a good one. So, um, happy Father's Day, Dad. Early to you, but to all all the dads out there. Um, actually I said all the good dads. I'm

985
04:52:12.240 --> 04:52:27.680
going to stick with that. All the good dads out there. Happy happy Father's Day to you. And, um, with that, um, happy early birthday 250 to America. Um, and I'll see you all next month. Thank you.

986
04:52:27.680 --> 04:52:45.120
I just have one thing. It came up uh, today in the first public comment period. It was uh the lady from Marsh Road and um uh Don, I think we're finally getting to it. You've been you've been blamed for Marsh Road for

987
04:52:45.120 --> 04:53:00.878
hauling dirt to your property from your property. None of that was true. Um but I've traveled the road to check it out as we've had people here and there are people that speed and there are police officers there stopping them. Um she

988
04:53:00.878 --> 04:53:17.040
suggested uh speed. I think she really meant speed tables. Um, what is the procedure for looking into that? Is that is that that's our road, correct? >> Yeah, but it's a thoroughare road. So, the problem with that is we don't put speed tables and speed bumps on

989
04:53:17.040 --> 04:53:33.200
thoroughfare roads because of the danger of >> So, it's really a law enforcement issue. >> Yeah, it really is because if you put those out there, you'll be launching people and creating an unsafe situ. So, yes, it's along be more along the lines of law enforcement.

990
04:53:33.200 --> 04:53:48.400
>> Okay, >> Don, there I know the corner she's talking about and I've seen some horrific accidents on that corner and uh there's a tree there especially that seems to be the subject of a lot of these >> wrecks and uh

991
04:53:48.400 --> 04:54:04.878
>> so is there anything we could do to mitigate a little? >> We can look at that. We can look at a corner. There's definitely some maybe striping and other uh traffic control devices we'll look at. >> Yeah, because it is a it's like an S turn almost and it's it is dangerous. I

992
04:54:04.878 --> 04:54:19.520
know what she's talking about. >> Thank you. >> That's up by the orchid >> right by the Stson practice area, >> the golf and right that bed right there. Yeah, that's pretty dangerous. >> Okay. All right. And with that, we are

993
04:54:19.520 --> 04:54:23.240
adjourned at 8:40.