##VIDEO ID:P9DiKb7WdE0## [Music] [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] back one [Music] two mic check [Music] [Music] w [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] a [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] a [Music] [Music] [Music] take [Music] I [Music] [Music] m [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] [Music] okay if everybody wants to find a seat this is your 60c warning [Music] know they okay it is 4:00 so we will call the January 21st 2025 alushi County council meeting to order at precisely 4 p.m. uh welcome it's good to see everybody here uh we will start uh in just a minute with uh an invocation I'll ask you to stand and anybody who cares to stand can stand for the invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance um this morning uh this afternoon we have the Reverend uh Zack Burke from steton Baptist Church in Delan for our invocation if you would uh come forward thank you sir thank you all for being here thank you for this opportunity let's pray together uh father thank you for today uh father thank you for your grace and your mercy um that we have breath in our lungs we thank you for the blessing it is to live in a place where we can have conversations like the one we're going to have today and father I pray that your spirit would fill this room and it would be a spirit of peace uh I pray for wisdom and discernment on behalf of these council members father that God you would uh work in them uh as they seek to do what's best for us as a community father we thank you and we praise you for your son Jesus and the sacrifice on the cross for our sins the new life that we have in him we pray all these things in your in your holy name amen amen United States ofice um you can do it would you call the role Please Mr Dempsey here Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins here Mr Santiago here Mr Brower here uh normally we would go right into public participation but I don't have any speakers request agenda and we do have a few so as I as I call your name uh if you would just come up to the podium the podium there's a button on the uh side your left hand side will go up and down please make sure that there is a microphone close to your mouth so that we can everybody in here can hear you and and you will be uh broadcast live um you have three minutes uh to speak on any issue that affects Valia County that's not on on the items today um you will also have an opportunity to speak to an item as they come up uh first and if you would tell us where you're from you don't need to give your complete address for safety reasons but tell us where you're from so your representative knows um that you're here first we have Monica Emerson and then you will be followed by dette muzzer push the button or is this good you don't have to okay it's on I'm Monica Emerson I live on Miller Road I haven't had the pleasure to meet you yet but I you've met several of my neighbors so far um 103 days and we are still living in the Twilight Zone we have a neighbor that can't live in their home she walks her three young boys out to a um RV so they can use the shower use the bathroom and uh clean them a pan clean a dish we have a neighbor that can't use their driveway still my two kids are over there they can't use their backyard two steps forward one step back on a day like this what happens when DeBerry is not so gracious to keep pumping eventually they have to look out for themselves what's the plan rainy season is among us we have families that are still not recovered 103 days and a family has mother has to walk out in the woods with her three sons to go to the bathroom what's the plan government efficiency where is it 103 days and we still have a family that can't use their driveway we know the problem it's out there we actually one of my neighbors it turns out to be his full-time job now thankfully for him if it wasn't for him we wouldn't even be here today and actually two of my neighbors I don't have the ability to investigate like they do I have two young kids that I have to take here or there and everywhere he's doing the job that somebody should be doing not you guys but we need action not just words anymore it's getting real old we need action now especially for a family that can't use their home can't use their driveway what's the plan when de Barry is done pumping is there a plan we haven't heard any communication all we hear are words that's it nothing that really is a plan thankfully for Dave and Kathy we have seen what is going on and we know what needs to be done but nothing gets done 103 days and we're still in the same boat we're still receiving drainage into Miller Lake and you still are spending money pumping out of Miller Lake government efficiency at its finest we're we're we're draining into Miller Lake and we're pumping out that's Insanity in my words plug the drains see where this water's coming from then you'll find out all the illegal unpermitted drainage into Miller lake and you'll solve your problem but we don't have two years like it's taken two years for your rezoning development codes we don't thank you detet good afternoon chair and council members Denette muser Miller Lake Community unincorporated Belia County and today is day 103 and as it continues I will continue to to come up here and repeat how many days it's been the moratorium issue is behind us future plans are now in place or in process for water management so today let's talk about our current state Miller Lake continues to remain Beyond capacity we don't need math or science to tell us that there is a flooding issue on Miller Road or Shady Lane we see it every day with our own own two eyes we are very grateful to the city of DeBry for stepping up to do the right thing and help their neighboring Community the water level on my property has decreased by 30 in but it still has 26 in to go what are your plans for Miller Road you created a Causeway that has raised the road 5T blocking access to my property in 2012 you raised Miller Road 5 F feet to mitigate the flooding from Hurricane CA Fay that occurred in 2008 raising Miller Road 5T every time the road floods is not the answer belusa County Orange City fot and St John's Water Management are responsible for the inaccessibility to my home for emergency services deliveries and daytoday normal life I pay $1,500 $100 a month for an RV that I cannot use it would take an industrialized crane for me to lift it off my property so that I could go camping with my family as Leaders of this County I hold you responsible for denying my constitutional rights this act of negligence on your part is a federal offense as a medical professional I made an oath to do no harm if I were to deny you or your family access to health care I would lose my practitioner's license I would lose my job I would lose my livelihood but that is not me I care for you so I'm finished addressing you I'd like to address the constituents with your permission in the room I see the same faces meeting after meeting please continue to speak into the mic or nobody can hear you I continue to see the same faces meeting after meeting that come up here and talk about the same public comments many of you are here two three up to five years with the same issues we cannot do this any longer I cannot take another month with no action it's up to us to demand change thank you Alec rner Daytona Beach Shores we must legalize weed because it is yahweh's gift from the earth and for his magazine did a poll on Florida voters about weed legalization and 66% say it should be legalized but Scientology says no billions in tax revenue for states if we legalize wheed nobody should be going to jail for possessing growing or selling weed scientologists funded the sanctimonious campaign sis against har weed because scientologists are a bunch of whacked out cokehead pedophiles Scientology has had 27 different lawsuits for human trafficking says Fox News ex-scientologists came forward with shocking child trafficking claims that now they're being stalked I have been harassed and stalked by these pedophile scientologists who funded Pam Bondies Republican party and Trump's campaign with millions of dollars now these scientologists want to push a digital ID this age verification digital ID which is a violation of the Fourth Amendment literally Dan sanis wants to quarter digital troops into your home with these digital IDs under the guise of age verification on April 28th 2019 vaska Paris and two other Australian former Scientology sea organization workers at Flag Land base filed a new labor trafficking lawsuit against David miskovich and the Church of Scientology alleging they' been forced into hard labor and harassing punishments while they were children Dr mof a high-ranking Scientologist accused Whitney Mill's family of depriving her of psychiatric treatment that could have saved her life but Dr Minkoff who's a Scientologist the same doctor that led to Lisa mcf's death Financial influencer Scientologist Cardone says he can make you a billionaire with his Investor's claim but it's actually fraud Scientology is nothing but a Amway PID scheme and Alex Jones supports this because he never talks about scientology scientologists are heavily financed by the Chinese Communist party and the China Development Bank and it's all to push these digital IDs and it's clearly a violation of the Fourth Amendment and I think they should not have digital IDs thank you David Hill hello everyone um David Hill district one I live on Miller Road in Orange City since I spoke to you last we found a another modification to the storm drain and Weir across Treemont drive that has been flooding us since it was installed in 2017 in addition to all all the other things that we found that have been attached to this system that were unpermitted the structure is called a weir it's inside the weir box it's it's what's designed to push the water back into the exfiltration system completely gone gone it doesn't exist all all this system is is a drain pipe from Royal Oaks that drains Wawa Pond right into Miller Lake it does not exist St John's water knows it I mean it's it's it's it's the only thing that protects us and it's gone in the permit the permit says any deviations must be authorized in a permit modification any deviations that are not so authorized May subject the permit te to enforcement action and revocation of the permit I am going to ask St John's to revoke this permit because I have that right you have that right you've been damaged you've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars pumping water out of Miller Lake hundreds of thousands dollars of millings raising the road the state has lost money every day I know what it I know what diesel costs $2,000 a day in diesel on these pumps I've seen pumps replaced you have you've been damaged as much as us tell St John you want want this permit revoked your letter of no objection that you issued in 2017 tell them you want to revoke that letter you now object you can help us and you can help yourself you can solve that problem they and again I don't give anybody a right to dump water on my land right now this water is still rolling through millions of gallons of water a week There's No wear in the wear box box and they're fixing to stick one in there probably without a permit not a surprise cuz that's the way it goes over there so please I'm asking you to send St John's Water Management a letter of revocation for the 2017 permit and protect yourself and protect us you have the right to do this so I'm going to do it and I'm asking you to do it and I'm going to encourage everybody on Miller Lake to ask for this per perit to be revoked because it's been modified three times without any permit thank you for your time guys thank you for your comments Peggy Hill you'll be followed by John Nicholson hi I'm Peggy Hill I live on Miller Road um which of course is being ad vely affected by the flooding from Miller Lake for over 100 days as you heard um I'm not going to be repetitive from what my neighbors have said I know you all know that the problem that we have is coming from this 2017 permit you know you have the um ability and to revoke it based on what the permit itself says so I would like to ask you to please today ask um make a motion somebody make a motion and ask that a letter be sent revoking this permit immediately so that the draining stops then you can do your engineering your studies and all that but stop the draining into Miller Lake it's doing so much damage to us as David pointed out it's damaging you as well the county thank you John Nicholson John Nicholson Tona beat side before I start I ask you to have Brad come before before these people leave and explain what's happening because they don't know what's going on and they really need to know all right uh especially about the permit and whether he can or cannot do that um you don't want to have them get their hopes up that they can solve something very simply when it really is a comp Lex issue uh the other day I was at the U mayor's round table and I brought up what I brought up here I know two of you Troy and Danny do want do not want to raise taxes they want to lower and lower and lower you can only lower taxes so far once you get to zero it's hard to lower and we'll never get to zero we always have to have taxes and the question is are they Fair are they equitable and are you spending it wisely we have a problem with flooding everybody admits it we need money to fix it everybody admits it the question is do you gut what we call Quality of Life issues no Library no Parks do we close the public works department do we close the police department lay everybody off so we can have the money there are things that we cannot do you get to the point where you have to raise money I like the idea that the tourist who use our roads would pay almost 40% of all the fix it's an almost a no-brainer we to get okay a half penny sales tax would have brought us $44 million a penny sales tax would bring us almost a million $100 million a year if we had done it originally it'd be nice little $600 million every time we delay it it's another $100 million you don't see it as a lot of money but for those people if you had $600 million you could fix their problem easily and they're just one of many they been people from all different areas coming before you saying I'm having a problem so I'm asking you I know you don't want to raise taxes I know you're all Republicans but it comes to a point you have to solve the problem regardless of whether you raise taxes or not so please give it a consideration that the public comes first and their needs come first thank you thank you for your comments Roy Matson and you'll be followed by Katherine levenson I gave her a packet to give all of you Roy maton from newa lifelong commercial Fishman were issu the pler every year by Val County Beach Department along with ID since we started the new park enforcement they're telling me I cannot make a living from 11: night till 5: in the morning and park in the county parking lot where am I supposed to park when I was side street or Park Mark excuse me no parking toway Z I'm not trying to be unreasonable when we have the count be Patrol doing it B County be Patrol P you had your plet in the window they kept on going anybody else they ran out of parking the church Department had done the same thing they don't for to Gra at the beach Patrol W but the new parking enforcement is getting very aggressive they a lot of people don't believe they work at night well I would wanted the first one t night to get $35 parking ticket for just parking over the line when we didn't even know they were going to come out in a force it that's part two because I went and went try to do a review on that ticket the review came back on the 12 and then I went in on the six think before I would meeting with Mr Brower at a meeting and went to pay the ticket it said right on here pay the amount of $35 when in to pay it no we're not accepting your check they're making me pay $70 I think somebody need to start looking at parking enforcement because I'm hearing from rumors I will not go from here I will give you in person if you want to hear about them because it's an issue that the county needs to be prepared I don't want us to see a black eye on Vala County got to think of this but one thing they didn't think about I know we three month to put program together but if somebody pulls down there and they want to go on the boach and the Tide's high they park in the parking lot they got to pay $20 now a tide drop you got to pay an additional $33 in chain to get on boot that's like $50 to go to the boot for the day or if it by versal to T get to high and you get pushed off the boot and you want to stay at boot you got to pay an additional $20 to park off the boot so something County Council should be looking at and the form had been given to you all I don't expect an answer tonight uh but if you all would like to please uh comment or give me some advice I've already gone to the coastal ofen and they told me the only way up they would approve a chain if it came from the County Council got any suggestion Mr bow uh we'll we will deal with it before the meeting's out okay I great we appreciate that I'll be waiting for a call thank you Katherine levenson Katherine levenson Miller Lake I know you know all of us already first of all I want to start by saying thank you thank thank you to each and every one of you for listening and for some of you for actually coming out I appreciate that um I would like for Don to come out uh I've had other people come out that it's not their District so I would really like for you to come out to Miller Lake and see what's going on there so you can see with your eyes it it's actually kind of eye openening to know that this is a problem that you guys can solve easily solvable all you have to do is shut off that illegal drainage into our Lake that's all it is Orange City City disavows us but yet they dump on us their whole Southwestern portion of their city dumps into us if you go into Orange City today in the southwestern part you will find every single drainage part where they their little their little lakes or whatever you call them every single one is dry why is that because the water's in our Lake still coming in every single day the water yes it's wonderful the Barry is helping us out but they're not going to help us out forever and that means that all water in the future still will come from Southwest Orange City illegally dumping into US completely solvable let them handle their own water I'm fine with that they shouldn't be dumping on us our private water our private Lake shouldn't happen and there's other things we can do to negotiate but I'm not willing to negotiate where they 100% dump all of their water from Southwest Orange City into our lake is not negotiable and it is something you can solve we now know it's illegal we all now know we we all know the permit was modified no let me change that the permit was never modified ever so because the permit was never actually modified it is illegal and should be completely stopped so please Mr Dempsey please come out please I'm inviting you you're welcome to do it I'll give you the tour myself I've done that before I want you to see the road on Miller Road how the asphalt that you guys put out how it's dangerous to drive on I actually give the tour many times and I tell people take your seat off cuz if we go off the side of the road I don't want you to die that's how bad it is it's all crumbling on the edges and very scary um we do not want to sell our houses we do not want you guys to buy them we want to live in our houses we we don't think that's the solution the solution is Stop The Dumping stop it easy to do I know you can all do it I know you can use the power of the pin because I don't expect you to go out there and actually dig the trench or anything but I do expect you to sign away get that done right away it can done in two seconds I will be glad if you want to go to Home Dep will buy bags of cement and pour it in there I'll be glad to do it don't think you want me to I probably get hurt I don't want to do that but anyway please please come out please I invite you okay and all of you thank you again for listening I appreciate it please thank you Dave Ker hi Dave Kramer I'm at 180 and 90 Shady Lane also on Miller Lake um and yes my daughter's house is still uninhabitable and she's still looking for a permanent place to live um now I do want to thank Don Dempsey thanks for your special meeting in December on the flooding and Jeff Brower your moratorium meeting and and the council meeting on January 5th flooding has been brought up in all of those um Ben Bartlett presented I believe at all three of these meetings his slide deck which showed good general information uh I've seen it three times but it was uh probably good for for folks that haven't seen it now Ben said his job is to come up with Solutions and Don you said it's probably a good idea to have a meeting just on Miller Lake and this board asks Ben when based on what pumping when can the water go down to pre uh hurricane and it said months and months and you guys said that's unacceptable we need a solution to get water out now even if it's a temporary solution just to get these folks able to get to their house and you said Ben bring it to the next meeting and other of you said no that's too soon so he said A week well it's been over a week so I don't know if Ben's brought you Solutions I don't know if that me meeting is being set up I don't know if the solutions have come the timing of those um how it's going to be communicated Ben's presentation also shows uh the top I believe four things to do when areas are flooded and the last one the last resort is to buy people's homes and flood them and Don I was a little concerned at the moratorium meeting your final words were we should just buy those homes and flood the people on Miller Road so I'm not sure and it's in it's probably in the meeting minutes it should be but that's that's what you said and I don't know if it was a it was definitely a late night uh but I'm not sure if decisions have already been made or where that comment came from also this this board asked Ben Ben for the next hurricane and disaster do you have a plan that's how long his pause was if you remember but he did answer it he said no I don't have a plan well not written down so is that acceptable I think he's been working for the county for what n years or almost 9 years and no plan for the next disaster that it rain is always different that's not an excuse you know force them follow-up questions force them to have a plan I mean I could force them to just BS better all I had to say is I I have people on call I have call lists I have the preventative maintenance has been done on the pumps we know know how many generators we have we have fuel we'll have communications we know all the people in the city you know no plan year after year to improve on that's unacceptable thank you thank you that's the last uh speaker um if if the uh if the council will indulge me for a minute I think we can solve Mr matson's problem he's a new Mna Beach resident so if if he gets a beach pass is a problem after hours parking and can we make a an exception for commercial fishermen Troy what are your feelings in the past we have um allowed commercial fisherman with a license but I don't know the particulars and I don't know if uh the recent uh uh when we put this plan in place if that was considered or not so I think they may just not know about it right I think that's the new vendor right but uh if you guys wanted to uh I could ask for a motion to allow it and we could go that route um but what I prefer to do would be a to go back and research it a little bit and then I'll come back with the next meeting Council what's your uh councilman Reinhardt I'm sorry I didn't see your name up yet no that's okay um you said George you'd rather look into it is it is it doable to make that motion if they have that placard available to go and allow that for now if there's I mean can we look at that at least for the interim I don't want the gentleman or any fisherman out there to lose his uh livelihood as a result of waiting for information back he's not here anymore is he I was looking for him if so I can make that motion for at least a temporary basis until we can get more information go ahead motion to at least extend that courtesy for those individuals that have that placard the ability to park in those parking areas uh at least temporarily until we get more information is there a second on that motion second we have a motion to allow uh tempor parking After Hours by commercial fishermen until we get more information from County staff um uh second was by Danny Robinson okay discussion and uh yes discussion uh Troy Kent thank you chairman yeah I um I need more information from staff so George I appreciate that you're going to be able to get us that in instead of I've never met this gentleman in Council and the listening audience I'll tell you I'm geeked out about fishing I mean I I take my family out and uh you know if if I was able to make changes I I would say you know as long as you're eating it you should be able to keep it and and not have to throw everything back that that you catch it's frustrating when you run offshore and you catch you know this elusive red snapper and uh I could go down a real big rabbit hole with everybody but I'm I'm not going to so I'm empathetic to this I just want more more more concrete information from staff because I I definitely agree with Mr Reinhardt I think uh I think we're going to be able to to fix this uh this concern um it's the right thing to do for for our commercial fishermen in the community just just my opinion but I'm I'm just I'm a little hesitant to make a change on the fly without background information thanks councilman Johansson sir I feel the same as Troy at this point you know we there's probably 50 other people at home right now that have a very similar um situation either at a ramp or somewhere else where they do business that that requires County property to execute and I want to make sure that we're that we're making this call and we understand the second and third order of facts at least at the at the ramps and the par parking areas if not uh even deeper yet so um um and this is just County ramps right there's more than just County ramps out there so uh there was only County ramps so but there's other opportunities to get in the water other than the county ramps correct there City ramps they all County yeah ramps are ours every every one of them all right um yeah I I still would like to wait one meeting councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman um I support you know uh commercial fishermen having this access however I feel strongly some of my colleagues let's just do it the right way and get a clean proposal from staff uh vetted uh and just do it the right way I just see potential for many holes in this temporary fix thank you Mr chair councilman Reinhardt thank you jar um I guess I just misunderstood what he was saying because my understanding is that he was able to park before and I was thinking he was referring to like the city of New M Beach that charged for parking all along where we didn't but they were allowed if they had that placard that they wouldn't they wouldn't be bothered so that's what I was referring to um so in answer to what he had said yes they allowed it before the cities allowed it before it's when we instituted the parking on the uh in our paid parking which was just recent that's when it IT enacted but they were allowed to park there all this time that's the reason why I made the motion um I do appreciate um wanting to take more time but I think I put in that that it was a temporary uh until more information came back anyways so it's nothing that's going to stay that way uh necessarily if Mr rall comes back with information on the contrary we can certainly make a motion to stop it and again he's been doing it so councilman Robbins thank you chair here uh man I support your motion obviously seconded it I received three calls on this over the weekend it was on my notes to uh to bring up here during Council comments um especially down in bethon Beach down the south end of my district so um looking forward to seeing what options we have if we can uh get those back that would be great thank you councilman Santiago I just want to clarifying question that might help me change my position um what was the process before what did the commercial fishermen do and what is communicated with them currently well before they would park at the r at the uh the off Beach parking and there was no charge and there was no enforcement of the 11:00 because they were the ones who were allowed to be out there late and early in the morning typically they go out there really before um sunup so I think the difference is now we are paid and we have a you know controlled parking situation and it's also till 11:00 so you got the issue of number one the pay and the other issue of um it being after 11:00 and before 5:00 A.M was there any additional identifying markers for them that we issued like he was showing the only that's the only thing I'm aware of that's that's of his own doing no that's issued easy to see so they all used to put that out in their cars before right okay um one followup question all there's not many I mean this is a fairly small and H how long would it take you to bring this back to us if we didn't pass it or you have to bring it back anyway but yeah ordinance next meeting well you can give us Direction at the next meeting it might actually take uh an ordinance change or something that would have to be advertised after that all right I I'll just leave with this Mr chair given that that's already normal practice for them to put that sign up there and there's just a few people I'd be willing to change my position Council and Troy Ken thank you chairman and and David I I don't disagree with you I I think that that is going to be an easy fix but Mr Johansson you know his wisdom he he brought it up he said there's 50 other people probably listening online and I I'll just tell you you know I've been I've been toned to line with this you know I want this to succeed for our County I want this to be um something good for our residents a financial win for our residents and uh better access for our residents and all of that and I can tell you and I I'll say publicly I've had healthy conversations with residents in valuch county and Orman Beach who as Mr Johansson mentioned maybe 50 other things people with ideas coming up some kids having problems parking at cbes high school and they park on the beach approach and they didn't sign up for the registration and they got a ticket and all of a sudden this is the County's problem last I Che I the school should provide parking the school district should provide parking for their students so now the students have been for years coming over and taking the parking on the beach ramp which then takes up your anybody's ability to go and access that part of the beach because the students are using it but the students are vucha County residents so why shouldn't they be able to use it there's just so much I think where this could go which is why I like the idea to let staff bring this back in two weeks and let us um put a fix in at at that time I think it's um I just I think it's it's The Prudent thing to do and something we can we can get done uh rather expeditiously I'm not I'm not against this for the commercial fisherman you know publicly I'll tell you I I I had another gentleman who I'm I'm friendly with but reached out to me and was like you know I've got a business and people park on the ramp and they're not going to want to pay to park on the ramp and it's like well all the all the locals can park for free and anybody out of town yeah this is what they're going to have to pay if they want to but my question to him was the the people you lease from you have zero parking I'm not mentioning the name of the business but they have zero parking 100% of their parking is on the beach ramp 100% I said That's you got to live with that you signed a lease for a business that has provides zero parking places you want the public to provide all of that for you you need to go back and talk to your land landlord and get that fixed that's not government's problem that's not the community's problem to fix for you that's your problem that you need to fix so I only share that because Mr Joe Hansen mentioned it when he said 50 I thought well there's two I can share with you all right now just so we we have that in the back of Minds thank you thank you um it's hard enough to make a living as a fisherman and I don't want this is all night fishing I don't want to make it any harder it might be 50 um to me that's irrelevant if if you have to have a commercial's fishing license so that's trackable if there is a beach parking pass that's trackable if they have those two things um I think I I'm in favor of allowing a uh a temporary permit to let them part if it takes 2 weeks to bring information back and it proves we see that there's a larger problem or some kind of dishonesty then we can change it but I don't want to hold them up for two weeks I I I think we can live through that the parking is working well what's what's happened on the beach is working well I don't think this disrupts it so I'm I'm going to support um your motion Matt to give him two weeks um staff two weeks to to bring us back more information uh councilman Santiago thank you Mr my last bite at this um you know what what's helped me now also uh that I changed my mind a few minutes ago it's like you know this is someone's livelihood you know and um and I think you know we changed the ordinance and we created this parking uh process and the way I see it not to put any blame on anyone I'll just say the county we missed the boat on this one thing apparently this was a practice that's funny right boat um I didn't even I didn't even intend that but we we missed it on this one because we should have um known that there were processes in place already that people were under the normal practice so again not putting blame on anyone other than ourselves and it's it's not up to him to know what those new rules were if we changed it and didn't take a account for it we had no discussion so this is someone's livelihood um anytime government gets in front of someone's livelihood I'm very sensitive to that so I would support the motion thank you thank you uh Council County Manager George Reon wall clarify is this for uh County residents or non-county residents so if there okay just making sure so it does not have to be a County resident with a County Parking PL okay that brings up another issue let's clarify that what did your motion say I didn't mention that just the placard so we can add into the motion about valuch County residents with the placard because we're going to support our local businesses here correct I think that's a little more I it I'm sorry I read more into your motion than was there glad no but it needed to be so I appreciate that okay soing your motion to be include County residents with the placard for the two weeks until right yeah okay yes sir says just second still stand Mr Robbins okay uh Chris would you call the role Please Mr Dempsey yes Mr Johansson no Mr Kent David you're doing a good job of trying to of working me over on this no because you bring up some good points I I this is going to pass I can read the tea leaves I'm gonna pass but i' I've been strong on this since the beginning I'm a no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins Mr Santiago yes Mr Brower uh yes and the reason Mr Robbins is because you're commercial fisherman oh that's true the uh motion still passes um 1 2 3 four yeses to uh three NOS are you making any money two NOS yeah two NOS yeah four two did I say three okay all right um so we'll look forward to what comes back with that and then my only other question this was pretty serious what came up about Miller Lake are we a are you aware County staff of the Weir being completely moved at St John's I know you just reached out to them we actually just had contact with Camy Dewey uh like Friday and uh he can report on Ben can report on the status and we do have a meeting uh we have several dates we're we're looking at for upcoming meetings of St John's just staff just staff in St John's are bringing them here to the council the staff and John's to actually do uh some work on okay what we're going to do out there so you know we have regular conversations with staff at St John's and um they informed us late last week that their the permitted plans did show a weir in the control structure as the water exits Royal Oak and apparently that Weir um is no longer there I don't know if it was not installed at the time um or if it was removed um it is a private system um um but uh the Weir essentially prevents the water from moving from Royal Oaks to the Big Lots Pond which eventually drains to Miller Lake but it prevents that water from moving to Royal Oaks when the water is at a certain elevation if you get a rainstorm the water will stage up and Crest over the wear is the purpose of that the with the permit was approved whether or not it was there with the wear WR written on paper if it's not there is that permit revoked um it's up to the St John's to decide whether they're going to revoke that permit in the city of Orange city councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman uh don first let me just say I appreciate your uh your um your service during this very tough time I know you got a tough job so um did I say Don right name I was off to a good start I just rued I didn't realize we looked that much I think you'd rather be but yeah I just wanted to say that now have you ever seen St John's come in and lack of a better term just shut down a specific project shut it down I mean I don't want to speak for them but typically their enforcement action is to you know issue a notice of non-compliance or some sort of consent order basically saying you're no longer in compliance with your permit you have X amount of days or something to come into compliance or they might face a fine or something like that so I'm I'm assume and you don't if you don't know the answer that's okay that they maybe also have some type of emergency Powers too I I honestly I don't know I mean I would imagine if it came to quote shutting it down um you know the only option you would have in a gravity system would be install some sort of pipe plug or something like that um I've never seen them do that typically it's some sort of Enforcement Act typically what we do with code enforcement you know send them a letter telling them they're not in compliance and then they have so many days to rectify it otherwise there's fines Andor other actions yeah and chairman and council member and everybody I now I'm not at you I'm annoyed that that this occurred uh in the past or didn't occur um so now um you know you try not I always say keep emotions out of you know these decisions we make but now I'm angry not at you I'm angry because um my job up here I try to follow procedures and you know the rule of order and how things are supposed to do and hold everybody fairly to that that's kind of sort of in my Mo I try in my tenure but now it it appears that someone didn't follow the rules that's correct right and so that makes me angry um and Mr chair I'll just come out and say it I I'll I'll make a motion that this Council direct our staff to contact St John's Water Management asking them to immediately shut down demand that the property owner immediately close that pipe until the permit is re-evaluated reissued second that motion by uh councilman Santiago a quick second by Vice chair uh Matt Reinhardt now this is an ask right that's all we're doing is an Ask they're the they're the decision Authority but we're making this ask officially that's correct we can't force them that's a pretty strong ask and I I bet the people that live there appreciate it councilman ding um yeah two things first you said it was uh St John's and Andor City we have to ask I believe they both issued a permit for that work I believe we need to make this a ask of both entities I'm not 100% on that let me I can double check but I'm pretty sure um the the or the way that originated is they had a pump in there that they were using without a permit and the city told them can't do that you need to you know have a permitted system and that's where they developed the the gravity line that's connect Don I'll modify my motion and to say that to research if Orange City is also a permitting agency and if so direct the same letter to them second okay yeah I I'm not sure they are I don't know so that's that's good and um one more thing chair um and Ben you heard Mr Hill what he did you hear what he said during public comment about the discovery the weird recently the lack of it yes sir um is is everything he said true about how it was just recently discovered yes yeah to my knowledge um I was not aware um that they were not in compliance with their permit apparently the Water Management District was not either um and so I guess they've been looking at it um closely their staff and they discovered in comparison with the uh permitted plans that it wasn't built according to those plans or modified afterwards I don't know if they know which is which okay thanks and if I could just mention to the Miller Lake people I I talked to M Mr Hill and I had plans to meet tomorrow and he was gracious enough to include you guys all in the invitation as well we're meeting at noon time what's the location Dave did you all catch that so please everybody come um I'd love to hear from you guys and and T that particular area okay let's I'm that's all I had I don't know if we're allowed to engage you you just did and this was I was GNA say this was against our rules what I did anyway I think I could I could think feel for everybody else that these two things that came up I know it affected this Council because you care about your constituents so I chose to deal with it now and I thank you for for indulging me in those two things but we have residents here that are fisherman that's affected but here are residents that are greatly affected in their own homes and so I think it was fitting for us to try and deal with that now and I appreciate the council doing that so the uh uh the motion on the floor is that staff would send St John's and our city uh if required a letter asking them telling them that it's our wishes that they shut it down and reevaluate the issuance of a permit that was a motion by councilman Santiago and the second by Matt Reinhardt um uh we have one more councilman with a question or a comment Jake Johansson quick question do we want it coming from staff or do we want it coming from the chairman on behalf of councel I would say the council I I would too thank you for we should clarify that appreciate it Jake councilman Robbins David uh chair are we allowed to put in there effective upon receipt can they shut this thing down immediately or do we have to you can make it as strong as you want in my opinion but you got to clear it with the with Mr Santiago and and the second if it sounds like we know what the problem is it's been identified let's shut it down until they can regroup and and figure this out yeah that was my intent okay thanks thank you Council um all in favor say I I I any opposed and that motion carries uh 7 to zero Mr chair just so we don't have any confusion or anyone's upset my understanding the motion was just passed staff can work on a letter the chair will sign it on behalf of council we're not going to have individual signatures yes but it's addressed from the council and the chairman signing it on behalf of council yes yeah and you should note in that letter that Mr San dieago is angry yeah I'm pissed off actually sorry it's not a it's not a joking matter but a little levity sometimes um thank you all for coming in and I hope you get immediate results from this okay um now the the item is the approval of the of the agenda um move to approve have a motion to approve by councilman Santiago second by uh councilman Johanson all in favor say I I the opposed and the agenda is approved um now we will move to the consent agenda does any council member have an item they would like to pull for comment or a vote move to approve consent agenda in its entirety I I have a I have two that I would like to ask for uh item f um just for staff comment and I would also like item t uh pulled for a vote I'll modify my motion to uh comment on F and to withdraw T from the motion thank you is there a second on Mr uh Santiago's motion Matt Reinhardt makes the second and staff for letter F Mr Brower I'd like to confirm that the vote was 7 to0 for that yeah yes they all just confirmed all right so I'm sorry f is a good news story This Is Us working with our partners again under George's leadership to um capitalize on our valua forever investment on the steart property in Edgewater so this is the 2500 acre parcel three different Parcels up to 2500 Acres that we bought uh they're at the end of directly at the end of Florida shores Silver Palm behind there's a very large Canal system right now that is in private ownership so the city or nor us was able to get in there previously and make sure that those canals were maintained by purchase of our by purchase of this property we are getting reimburse $3 million for the property from D who did not want to maintain the canal so we have um worked out an agreement with Edgewater to provide access to these canals um to for them to be able to maintain them uh to protect their community community against flooding in the future that's F thank you any questions uh councilman Santiago yeah thank you Mr chair and Brad when did we the council purchase this property we closed today we closed today when did we enter into contract to purchase this property we entered contract to purchase this property um probably 8 months ago eight months ago so and when we purchased this property what was one of the intents of the utilization of this property flood plane protection 8 months before well 6 months before hurricane was a strategic identification of a property and that's what we do as your team and under George's leadership is we we take a a very large view and a strategic approach to these acquisition so it's not just a fun place to go walk around it provides our community multiple benefits and and I knew the answers to the question right and I wanted the public to to hear that because again as a as a followup to our last meeting this council's been working working on flooding types of mitigations not not everything has been solved but we've been on this path for at least two years is that a fair statement it's absolutely fair and and we've acquired about 5600 Acres since re reauthorization of alucha foror over 2500 of that is flood plane protection so it's the green infrastructure in our communities you need green and gray infrastructure to protect against um flooding in the future so it's a investment in in the protection of our folks of of the 67 counties we have in the State of Florida is there any one County that has more preservation than Valia so using local money we are the second right behind Hillsboro but I'm bound and determined to beat them okay so we're number two in the State of Florida with conservation with local funds yes local funds thank you very much thank you Mr cheriff from Dogman yes thank you and item T is um uh Ben Michael this is a utility service agreement um that the the more I read through it it I just had questions about it and I didn't want to vote for it without answers to the questions um uh generally tell me what this is accomplishing certainly Mr chair good evening council memb is Mike G water resources and utilities director this uh agreement is actually repealing a previous agreement which the county had approved County uh County Council approved back in June uh back at that time it was a mixed uh residential and Commercial development in DeBerry Town Center the County Utility is the provider of service for the city of DeBerry this actually reduces the number from 350 erus for the Mixed use and residential reduces it to 297 to just account for the residential development commercial will be determined at a later date once the rooftops are up and uh you know the commercial development the market is there to determine what what would go there perhaps uh uh stores uh restaurants whatever would be in this area but this is just a a reduction right now of the amount of capacity within our water and wastewater treatment plants okay so it's a reduction and will the um when we know how much commercial will be will DeBry come back and ask for another change uh what we'll probably do is at the time in which that occurs um the individual commercial lot will be go to development review and we will approve based on the number of the amount of water uh and waste water that they may need so yes um may not come here but we will give them uh at the time uh of connection they'll pay uh appropriate Water and Sewer impact fees connection fees all of this is unbuilt that's correct so there are no all new water and wastewater infrastructure to support the DeBry Town Center area this is their the plan for their downtown that is correct across from SunRail so there are no 297 houses yet but it we can provide water and sewer to that many potential houses yes sir okay um I just wanted to be clear on that I wanted maybe everybody else up here was clear that um because we're talking so much about flooding adding another almost 300 homes is a is a concern um who who approved the homes DeBerry this would be the city of De yes okay I don't I don't have any other questions or or comments anyone else from Council move to approve item T okay have a motion to approve item T and by U David Santiago second by Vice chair uh Matt Reinhardt all in favor say I I any opposed thank you thank you okay and we voted on the the rest of the agenda you got that 7 to zero okay um item three Award of contracts to multiple contractors for the housing rehabilitation program for Community Assistance Brad bball Community Services director so talked with most of you about the program this is state and federal dollars that are prescribed for affordable housing in our community so it's bringing money back to our community we've heard you loud and clear we've made adjustments to the program that align with your vision um and your principles so we here to answer any questions that you have questions for staff we're we're just approving contractors we're not approving projects that is correct so what we're doing here is we're increasing competition previously when we came to you um we were bidding them out in groups um and we would have one contractor um you know reply to the bid this is these six people will be on continuing contracts so when we have a house to be they will all bid against each other for the work and this is not building new houses it's repairing damaged houses but you said there's 65 and with a total amount that's about $102,000 per home how do how do we arrive at that if you don't know what the projects are it's it's fed it's Grant dollars so it's a state allocation method the 6 million is that what you're talking about yeah and we couldn't go over 100,000 so this Council under your leadership again we have develop a tiered approach we're going to help those very four very poor people up to $100,000 poor people they don't have to spend that much that is correct up to up to you can do less oh absolutely and Carman and I are committed to reviewing each of these to make sure that they address life safety issues okay all right thank you for that any other questions councilman Johansson no question sir comment okay if there's nobody else has any questions go ahead with your comment yes sir I I serve on multiple committees with with kmen and um uh I know it's a a tough job doing what you do when we're directing what we do up here and I appreciate everything that you've done to meet the needs of of our uh as as Brad said our vision uh or or our public policy regarding this and and I know you know that you care a lot about the people that you're trying to help but we're trying not to spend spend $400,000 on a $60,000 home um so I appreciate the balance that that you have put toward this I know you've worked hard uh because we talk about it and I also um um appreciate your neutral demeanor in the in the meetings and and I ask this year that you continue to uh take a hard look at anything it looks like you're going to audit everything that we do here to make sure the money is going to the right place for the right reason granted it's not our Ador money we're spending here but it's a tax dollar nonetheless and we have to be very uh cognizant of of those tax dollars and where they're going U so I appreciate you working hard yeah okay if there's no other uh comments or questions is is someone prepared to make a motion and uh David Santiago makes a motion to approve and can I give the second to Jake Johanson we had several seconds all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero approve these contractors item four is a award of agreement for cdbg Dr multifam housing new construction Gap funding I guess it's good evening council members uh Donna Butler uh o director happy to be here uh in front of you today so we have four projects that have gone through the process uh for Gap funding for multif family housing um and this Pro this agenda item goes through two things um first the discussion of this so this will give us uh four locations uh two of which are senior housing two of which are affordable housing for approximately $10.4 million at this did not come out right on the screen I apologize um at our uh previous meeting you all had directed me after we proposed $18 million worth of money to be moved to move an additional uh 32 million for a total of 50 million to be a aailable for um infrastructure mitigation and buyout so you will see here that funding identified taking the total that would be available for infrastructure mitigation and buyout to 142 m610 th000 and I'm really sorry for the way it looks there on my paper document it does not look that way so if you have any questions I'm happy to answer councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair um in in previous discussions of this Council um there's been discussion about continuing to raise that number of the 50 million um it can you can you briefly give us the parameters around uh the money and can could we do that uh and if we could up to what number could it be so of this pot of funds yes uh I'm sure that you can move more um however it's going to limit the programs that we've got here so um Administration can't really get anything out of that we will still have can we go back on the slide I'm sorry to cut you off can staff go back one sorry Miss Butler see I'm trying to get it to go back just so we know what we're following go ahead okay so at the top it says Administration and on the remaining column um it says 16 million that is to run the program so I would anticipate that we will spend all of those funds the planning uh we've already committed just recently 8.5 million of that for storm water studies as soon as we know how much we need for sure because we have not procured those those are guesstimates by the cities of what they that's in addition to the 50 million yes okay that's to do the stormw water studies to figure out what these projects might be that we would use the 142 million for okay um the next section is housing so homeowner housing we've been taking applications we anticipate spending that 145 million there um the rental repair we going to be close we're going to be doing a oh thank you yay thank you save the day so we anticipate under the rental repair not having any money we're shifting all of that money out we started a program we took applications it did not move forward so we're closing out that program completely multif family proposing that you there I'm sorry where are we proposing to put the 5 million into this program it's already is part of the additional 32 million so you orally had 50 million plus an additional 42.9 million ination so for 90 92 and what we're moving is additional 50 million giving 142 million that 5 million is going to the infrastructure basically correct okay continue multifam was originally 50 million and we're recommending that we spend approximately 10 million here and that'll be out of the 13.5 I'm recommending that we keep that 3 million until we know what's going on with the Dayton Beach Housing Authority before you all had recommended that we make some of these changes and hold these these monies for infrastructure we had announced that we would have multiple rounds of multif family um procurement so the Tona Beach Housing Authority was not ready they were devastated by Hurricane Ian and again that same area by Milton so we have somewhat of a commitment if you all choose not to do that that's your choice but it's a commitment that was made in our action plan to serve our housing authorities and it is a recommendation and a value of Hud that we do so um economic revitalization under Public Services we had identified a million dollars for job training that's going to go away completely is that also going to mitigation infrastructure I mean infrastructure so there's not many more places that you would be able to take it we would have some money probably left over from planning though I do recommend that you keep it there in case cities have more planning studies that they need to have done for storm water but as soon as we know what we're done with we can transfer that remaining dollars over okay um multif family if we do not spend those funds we can move it over okay I I'm good thank you very much Mr Butler thank you Mr chair any other questions for uh councilman R Vice chair Reinhardt thank you chair um so I was glad to see that there's the option of moving those funds later but I was also very happy to hear about waiting till we hear what what Daytona Beach um those people were devastated and I want to make sure that that was taken care of they're hit with the same problem that everybody has been here already for so with that being said I'll make a motion to approve second okay we have a motion to uh approve as put forward by Vice chair Reinhardt and the second was was by uh David Santiago um I have one more question on one of where did it go on the uh on the Wendover housing Partners project um is that already begun it has in our city I don't believe so no they're getting they're very close though I think we're the final funding they need they're hoping that we're going to be able to close very quickly was I think I was by there today and the the property is all cleared would that be this property or am I or am I wrong is it I'm not sure this is if you were uh near Home Depot it's essentially in that big plot of land near Home Depot okay is that ring a bell is that where you were today okay no that's where this behind the Ford dealership no this wasn't in Orange City so that's a different Orange City project that's being funded through um community Assistance this is uh this project is separate from that and is near Home Depot okay thank you uh councilman Dempsey yeah um you guys probably already know how I'm going to vote on this I'm against it um for several reason first I don't think that there's uh a demand by the public and the taxpayers to have their tax dollar go to incentivize more development we're talking about adding another 260 dwellings uh to the county when we've just had a packed house supporting a moratorium just a few weeks ago so I think if you pulled the average taxpayer they do not want to have any of their tax dollars going to have more development more um impervious surface being developed uh more traffic more DW just more residents I don't mind item three I voted in favor of because during the rehab to existing dwellings I'm all about it but as far as creating new impervious surfaces new roofs new residents we're going to get 260 more families in here because when new people move into here somebody's going to move into the previous dwellings so it's just we're just expanding and expanding I don't think there's a need for incentivizing uh any more development the market if you haven't followed the the news is uh on its way down I always talk about lay fair and just let the free market control housing prices uh inventory is uh sitting longer and longer we have more available houses on the market uh new construction deals are falling through so as inventory homes not being sold increases the prices are going to come down so I just don't think it's a government um function to try and inject itself into the free market of real estate and uh the housing market um this is $10.4 million I think that we could earmark for something else I know they much rather would have this money go towards mitigation or infrastructure if at all possible that's what I want and so that's why I'm against this thanks guys Donna can we do that what happens if we vote this down can we use the money for mitigation for infrastructure for flood prevention I can't I can't totally answer that question because I don't know what Hud's response is going to be when we eliminate three programs two of which are housing so we can definitely make a a request absolutely we can make a request that we do that because that will be a substantial amendment to our action plan to shut those down so happy to do that if that's the direction of the council thank you um I don't have a motion yet I'll ask for a motion but Don I'm I'm going to tell you uh I think you have a motion a motion to we have a motion to approve and a second by uh the vice chair um you didn't change my mind but but I'm changing my mind on these for all the reasons that you said the the flooding the constant clamor of victims of flooding and potential victims of flooding have um I agree with you I don't think this is the time to be adding uh more housing um especially when we don't know what the storm water plans are anything about it we're just voting and and hoping that everything works out and I'm losing I'm losing um hope uh councilman Robbins thank you chair and Don just to kind of piggyback off what you said um couple meetings ago we took away some of the um incentives and the tax breaks believe from from this and and a report came out where we I think 1,800 Plus Homes possibly in the positive for affordable housing in vuch County that's why we did that I'd be interested uh in in seeing how we can move this money uh given the data and uh P action that we just did so I appreciate you bringing that up Mr chair may I make a comment please please thank you sir so I understand the position that you all are taking but I I did not clarify something and it's it's on me for not doing so good Housing Partnership this is only 40 units of affordable housing but this is replacing housing that was lost by people that lived in new samna beach in Housing Authority units so while I understand that the rest of these may appear to be completely new these are replacing units that were lost in New SMA Beach the same would happen in Daytona Beach by the Housing Authority a little a little bit different than the others so just please know that I would be remiss if I did not tell you that um in your decision making there's four different projects here correct and good hous right but I just wanted to clarify that that specifically that is replacing is replacement and Daytona Beach as well well day not not none of these other projects are replacement okay that is the only one that is replacement and we identified in our unmet needs assessment that we did um the consultant did for us identified those units and the Dayton Beach Housing Authority units as units that were of affordable housing that were lost due to Hurricane inan so gotcha we'll be back do we have to vote for them all as a whole or can we vote for one up if that's two three or four okay the motion sorry you to we can vote for them individually that way is that what you just said Donna sir if you would like to that's fine well you have a motion on the floor and a second you can amend that motion oh I can amend that motion if you wish or withdraw and make a new motion um I believe it was your would you like to hear the comments from the rest of your Council Members First and then you can amend your why not comment or your your motion uh Jake Johansson yes sir um I you know I'm torn here because like you all uh I'm a fiscal conservative I I don't want people to become dependent on government uh however I have been places uh in my travels where people have turned down affordable housing or or not funding it and it it resulted in terrible gentrification um it it resulted in elderly folks not being able to find a place to live and although I'm not elderly yet in about 3 years I I think I will be um and and it bothers me a little bit that we talk about we'll just buy these people out uh Midtown Daytona let's just buy that place out well where would those people go after we buy them out they they they are in affordable housing now why is it affordable cuz it's in a bowl so uh when they leave where are they going to go um some could say not my problem but a lot of those people are serving you your glass of wine and your pasta when you go to the store a lot of them are are making the beds in our hotels which we rely on for our tourist tax because we're the greatest beach in Florida so I I I understand both sides of this and and I know it's hard but um I look at past history at the federal and state level um you have devout conservatives supporting pro programs like this you have the Senate President approving the live local act which is this on stero and oh by the way you're going to let them put it here so I'm I'm I'm trying to balance uh this versus no I don't want to pay a tax pay or dollar uh and John Nicholson talked a little bit about it earlier you can't do nothing with no money so um I'm I'm in a bad spot here because uh I could go either way on this but I I wanted you to know that that the the the problems with not approving it result in homelessness gentrification our our children are are out selling drugs instead of in a nice home uh not not to mention all the stress of not being able to afford a home in in a family environment so uh just put those in your mind as we as we go through this thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman you know I think staff did a good job in preparing and modifying and modifying and modifying over the last year almost uh in this particular program and they have uh made significant changes to work on the priorities um that we've said which is infrastructure um and you know when when I look at this projects list this what 120 200 256 uh affordable homes some for seniors um in a size of County of ours that's nothing that's nothing um these funds are are are not coming out of our general funds to here on our assessment um and uh the reality is that we have people that need these you know um often times we don't hear from these people I think Jake described it pretty well we probably hear from them when they're serving us our lunch all right or cleaning our hotel rooms after we've stayed and other various jobs um and so those folks don't get to come here they can't they have the availability to come here but many of them work two jobs or not available they have all this stuff going on we don't hear from them in my entire years 20 years of serving the public you rarely hear from that segment of the population you you usually hear from the affluent um which I think we have to represent also in Balance um that's that's our role is to balance the needs of the entire Community 2 50 homes is not going to be a deal breaker for us um we can chew what's that saying chew and walk and chew gum and we can do more than one thing um the infrastructure issues are certainly a priority for me and amongst all of I believe all of my colleagues doing this or turning this down is not going to change that um we have more funds that are coming our way now too we're redirecting I like Miss Butler that you said there were additional funds that are going to be on hold that can be transferred over also not of this bucket but in in addition we have some more federal dollars that are going to come help us with infrastructure projects that we're trying to discussing now we're probably going to be very successful in getting State infrastructure dollars also to tackle some of these things so I'm my colleagues I'm okay with this plan staff's done a great job and let's not forget of these individuals cuz they're real people um we can do this and do other priorities at the same time and be a well balanced County so I think it'd be sad if we turned this down that's my opinion thank you Mr chair councilman try Kent great thoughts um councilman Santiago really really good unfortunately Don Dempsey strikes again and you know you you bring up some points um councilman Dempsey that are hard for me to ignore and councilman Reinhardt if this if if you don't withdraw your motion and we if we don't break this up individually I'm going to be a no on this even though I know it a a county our size you know we can we can talk about how this really isn't that big but until we have the infrastructure in place to handle not only the traffic but the flooding we're experiencing until that happens I'm I'm I'm going to vote with Don now the new suur project that we heard staff talk about you know this is just a replacement of what they had I'm I'm going to support that if this is broken up but we have had so many residents come in here and and I personally have have railed about it you know in in in parts of my district you know I have I have residents that live on LPGA Boulevard and they've they're new to the area and I said to one woman so you just moved here from up North so what do you want you want to move in but then everyone behind you can't move in and she looked at me and said yes that's exactly what I want and I get it and you know we laugh we laughed about it but you know I want Daytona because it's it's part of my district to say no no more on LPGA until the infrastructure can handle it I've said it before if you want a District 4 no growther I'm not your guy I'm G to I am going to vote for good projects I am not a uh put my head in the sand say no to all growth that's not me I will vote for good projects but I refuse to vote or something if the infrastructure is not in place and that's why I have voted no Mr Dempsey on I believe three projects in your District in Dand and by the way part of my district does cover a piece of Dand but the Lion Share is yours um and Mr Johansson's and um Mr browers so Council that's that's where I am although I do see a couple more names up here and and David's been known to sway me here in there as well so I um I hold the right to change my mind Don if I hear something better than what you're selling thank you councilman Reinhardt four sure absolutely I'll yield to uh Mr from councilman Santiago thank you Matt appreciate it Matt I owe you one try I love you brother I want you to know that first but I didn't hear not one thing about any of these projects presented that the infrastructure is not in place so I'm listening to the words you're saying Don didn't make the case staff didn't say there's an infrastructure issue with any of these projects which if there is then I certainly would be concerned I would also hope that our staff would not be using public funds to put something in an area that doesn't support it infrastructure wise especially given the comments that this Council has been making over the years um and I hope I'll I'm going to use your words just now and use your words from last meeting man you're paying attention I am yeah yeah and actually I'm not feeling good today so maybe that's it but I I think you you said that I'm not going to vote for any projects until these infrastructure things are in place that in roundabout you said you're not for a moratorium but that's almost like saying you're for a moratorium no I'm not I won't vote for a moratorium okay but if you're not going to vote for any projects until these things are done okay I don't want to I want get cross words with you but no but I'm trying to understand that my friend but again if if let's go back to the real facts then I I didn't hear did you hear any uh infrastructure issues in these four projects the the the senior housing one or any of that stuff I didn't hear of any staff can you can staff tell us if there's any infrastructure problems in these four projects she could speak to that but I don't believe there's any uh outstanding uh Transportation issue uh as far as flooding uh these some of these are taking place to replace areas that were flooded like the New Smyrna Beach Housing Authority and the cities will require them to elevate so that they're meeting the two B two above BF base flood elevation sorry I get stuck in my acronyms there so before they're giving given um building permits they'll have to be above base flood elevation and and that's probably going to be the norm going forward for almost all projects right we're going to have all these are in cities so if they're in areas that flood and they're receiving our funds they have to be that high thank you thank you Mr and thank you for thank you for Matt for yielding I'm done Mr thank you chair um I'm sitting here thinking of what to say because you know I kind of wobbled on both sides and you brought up some very good points excellent points we have the same haircut and we do we do um taking my thoughts away from me George you just said it best replace areas that were flooded and I'm looking 56 units for Senior Living in Daytona Beach we have a massive problem with that that that addresses 50 56 units the newer we already discussed the land for affordable housing we preach about it we talk about it needing the need for it there's individuals here that want to talk about it um this replaces those areas this gives individuals that are homeless right now or could be a place to live or will because their homes were flooded you talk about Daytona Beach Midtown I went through Midtown right after that whole area back there in South Street all those homes all those duplexes every single one of them have been abandoned since hurricane one of the Hurricanes so I mean these we are those people right now so this replaces that so I'm hearing that listening to Mr Johansson listening to to uh Mr Santiago I'm going to go back and leave my motion in play uh for all four projects um thank you chair thank you you um Donna I'm glad that you mentioned elevation CU that was one of my my biggest concerns we every housing projects in vucha County city or county have all been approved for storm water and and yet we still see uh flooding if I'm right that a lot of that flooding is coming from elevated neighborhoods until the neighborhoods next to them that aren't um that that's my problem with this I don't want to approve 56 8440 or 80 units uh that are much needed for um for lowincome rents and put more people out of a home so that they need to uh an affordable housing project and so until we get some of the results of our last meeting of the seven items that we pass forward to or have staff to bring back to to um to combat and alleviate some of the flooding that we have now we don't know how that's going to shake out yet and so I I'm I'm sorry I I'm I'm not going to be able to vote for it until those things happen and we know that we're not creating more flooding and creating even a greater need for affordable housing until those things are done and I also don't I have to resp ful disagree with Mr Santiago I don't think everybody that's having a hard time affording rent um should be or needs to be dependent on the government to to do that I I think we can we can still improve housing Mr Santiago is out of the room so I'll go to uh councilman Dempsey yeah just my second bite here oh here he is now did me try Jee was just talking about you no I um Matt just in response to uh your point um you said that approving this will give flooded people a place to go um but who's to say they want to live in this affordable housing project I mean you're kind of making my point for me because instead of just presumptively thinking well they're going to live in this affordable housing project why don't we take that money and what been proposing along just go ahead and buy out their property if it's habitually flooded real estate buy them out so we can do infrastructure stormwater retention give them the money that could have been gone to this give them the money and let them go live who's to say they want to live in vucha County anymore how do we know they may not want to move back up north they've had it with Florida there's a lot of people leaving here daily as well because they're tired of the flooding the hurricanes and the other issues we have so this is even more of a reason to put this money towards infrastructure and uh strategic buyouts or repetitive flooding buyouts and David I never said I appreciate your support Troy but I didn't really mean this is because of flooding this is not so much about flooding as it is what the taxpayers want I just think if you talk to the average person on the campaign Trail or even afterwards people were tired of development stop the growth and why are we using their tax dollar to incentivize we're offering $10 million in incentives for more development do they really want their tax dollar being used to incentivize more development more Footprints than we've already got more traffic I think they'd much rather have that same a half million dollars go towards buyouts infrastructure more storm water retention and if people are willing to sell their properties and they're repetitively flooded let's buy them out and let them go live wherever they want to live and so that coupled with the fact that we're in a free market if if you guys have been following the real estate market we are tanking right now on pricing housing inventory has gone up just like Danny was pointing out um we have more inventory than before um so we're not even necessarily within the parameters of needing affordable housing so why are we doing it and there's going to be more as inventory goes up and up and up there's the prices are going to come down and by I would submit by the time we build all these the prices will probably be even more down than they are now so I just think you got to let the free market do its thing um the prices will come down on their own like as they have been for the last six months and let's just earmark this money for infrastructure that's what I'd like to see thanks councilman Troy Kent thank you chairman and just to respond to Mr Santiago's um comments and I I appreciate them by the way but I said it before and I'll say it again I'm a no to a [Music] moratorium and you know the comment of well if you're a no to any new development until the infrastructure there sounds like you're you're a yes to a moratorium and I would say certainly not because a moratorium it says no one's playing ball at all doesn't matter where you are what the situation is that's what I'm against but at the same time if you bring a project before me and the roads can handle it there's not a flooding issue School concurrency I'm good to go I'm a huge property rights guy and I'm always going to support those individuals that want to bring good projects before us but I think we're in the predicament that we're in in this County because there have been some communities in my personal opinion where there has been uncontrolled explosive growth and the roads can't handle it I mean you just all you have to do is go to a few places on the west side and the east side and you can pick the time in the morning you can pick the time in the afternoon or in the early evening and our residents aren't happy about the traffic number one but then we've got this flooding issue number two so Mr Dempsey I'm I'm glad and I say you clarified you didn't you you said this from the beginning and and you were spoton about letting staff look at the possibility of utilizing these dollars to help with the infrastructure problems that were experiencing right now and chairman you know you might have seen my face whenever staff said well we would just raise those these developments up and it made me think about the 15 Homes at the end of my street that are coming in and my buddy the sharies that live there at the end of Valencia Drive who that house has been there since the 1920s it's Beachside Orman I mean it's never had an issue there's an issue so um councilman Santiago I don't know that I I've changed your mind I don't know that I'm going to be on the on the winning side of this tonight Don but that's okay you know you can't you can't win them all and I think it's a it's a healthy discussion to have amongst us I appreciate everybody's input with it but that's where I am with it um so thanks County Manager George reonal it might be uh helpful when we look at uh the when I think Donna mentioned the U elevating of the structures I don't believe that the method in some of these areas was going to be to fill I believe that was meant to there were going to be raised like stem wall type Construction in in those areas but what we could do is bring this back and and confirm uh what they're discussing when it comes to uh elevating it may not be a fill situation the other thing I wanted to point out was well in the HUD program the whole point of the infrastructure being a possibility was the infrastructure to improve the area where you're repairing the homes so uh they give the county latitude uh which we hope to use but uh remember the program uh has to be uh also used for a particular um or an area where there's a particular uh average salary and uh there's percentages that we're going to have to meet to do that so again you just can't use this money anywhere you can't it have to be used uh a majority of it in areas where you have lower income and it and the intent of the program was to supplement so that if they put this money back in housing just to your concern that the infrastructure in and around it would also be improved so there would not be further flooding so that's that's the intent of the HUD program and I will point out as Donna mentioned it's not a little thing um if we uh take this from 50 million down to uh whatever's left here uh 3.6 if that's if the new it will be a major Amendment with HUD and we have no idea you know what way they're they're going to go but it will mean a change and and that'll take some time so um that's okay and we're good with that we'll do whatever you please uh but I just would be remiss if we didn't uh you know point that out councilman Robbins thank you chair and uh thanks Mr re and wall for pointing out some of that stuff there um I would just need because you know my residents uh down there and we have to obviously um try to address uh uh the replacement of these cost or replacement of these uh down in new samna beach but I just want to make sure before we do so if we could if the council is uh up to it um just to lock in to see if we can um attach some of these infrastructure dollars just to make sure that um everything in that area uh of these projects is up to par cuz they they flooded for a reason I'd like to know uh was it the 20 or 30 Ines there along US1 uh or or was it something else um so that's what I'm I'm looking for just so we don't make the same mistake twice councilman Santiago chairman Troy I think to answer to to your points I'm thank you for clarifying A little bit more there now that you've said that maybe it's worthy are we on the clock on this are we on the clock meaning uh yes there's a clock but uh I think there's a clock on some of them not on necessarily on new smrna beach so we have time for that if that's the one in particular you want to discuss I know we have some storm water studies planned for newna Beach uh I'm not sure if it covers that area I'll find out and we can bring it back if that's the will of the council what I'm thinking uh councilman Mr chair is that may maybe we we send these Housing Programs the four back to answer the four questions I think three questions you asked right roads flooding and I think there was a school in school concurrency I think those are the three you said maybe you deserve the answers to that to help you come up with a better answer on decision on this if that's what you know and I believe you absolutely um so I think these projects are important enough to to vet it out and make sure we're all comfortable and if that makes you comfortable to make whatever decision you make I'd rather send it back and get those answers for our next meeting if we can get that done staff I don't want to throw out the good work you all have done without making sure that they have all the answers everybody has all the answers to make a good decision so let's you know Mr CH we would either have to withw the motion or table it to uh our next meeting get staff to bring back some answers to the questions that were asked ask regarding some of the infrastructure around these four particular projects we can't table it yet you made the motion to to approve them y if if it's going to and and I respect your your opinions gentlemen very much and if it's just going to be the two weeks to where we can get those answers back I'm uncomfortable with that I just don't want to keep I don't want to be the one to keep kicking this can down the road um very important to know I mean I know that a lot of the complaints that are coming from the Midtown area that you and I both oversee uh with respect to our our districts but there are already people complain about the delay in some respects but there are right there are reasons for those delays that some of them are not understanding I didn't want to point to figure Donna is doing a great job but there are reasons for some of those delays I don't want to delay this and say we're we're delaying it now so I think two weeks is is okay I'll I'll withdraw the motion and send it back to staff to for that two weeks daavid you making a motion he made the motion I'll make the motion then to send it back to for staff to get those answers to those questions so then we can uh be better informed i' second it okay so the motion now is to table for two weeks to a Time certain bring it back for more information um any questions Donna any else you would like to say we're going to identify adequate Transportation School concurrency and any flooding issues and how they might be dealing with that on site I I do know that new smna is still in the process of um working on on-site retention pond so um and and please def Define elevation Define elevation yeah because Mr rectenwald mentioned stem walls right are they going to be raised by Phil which I think is the concern of council Council Council chair in particular or is it stemwall or you know Ray Construction that way right I know some of them actually propose um not necessar these but some affordable housing um modifications propose lifting it and having parking underneath and the living above that that area so we'll find that out for you thank you and if there's anything else that you uh think that you need let me know as soon as possible and I'll ask all four of the applicants thank you Donna so the motion on the floor is a table for two weeks and and Donna everyone up here um I don't want to speak for everybody so I'll speak for me and I think I've already heard David say it that we you've worked really hard on this your staff has worked hard this is not a reflection on on the work that you've done it's a reflection of the concerns that have become so obvious in the community so thank you thank you motion um uh to table is that still your motion Matt and you're still second all in favor say I I any opposed that is tabled 7 to zero for two weeks okay item six uh public participation ordinance Amendment this should be quick right yes good evening Sarah Jonas assistant County attorney um this ordinance amends our public meeting rules which removes the uh requirement that public comments be directed to the council as a whole instead of anyone individually um as a brief background uh The Bard County School Board had a similar rule that was challenged in a lawsuit B uh brought by the group moms for Liberty we have an 11 circuit opinion in that case finding several First Amendment violations and the way The Bard County School Board um enforced their rules and so given the Court's ruling um we recommend amending our rules to remove that provision happy to answer any questions councilman Santiago move to approve councilman Santiago moves to approve is there a motion on that a second on that motion second Troy Kent seconds the motion to approve as written uh questions Jake Johansson yes can you can you is is there any evidence that the the school board did anything outside the ordinary or outside some of of the requests we've made here um uh I know certain Council and board meetings are a little different than ours and and I know we've asked citizens to direct the entire council is that kind of how that went or was it much different than that there were a couple of arguments but I think what it boiled down to is how the rules were being applied and you know what we've always said and I think this Council has applied is you know when you have that Prov when you have that provision which is pretty common in meeting role ordinances doesn't mean someone can't come up to criticize uh it's just meant to like okay direct your comments to the council and so the argument was Sarah can correct me from my recollection of the case that part of it was it was being used the argument inconsistently so some critics were arguing they weren't allowed to speak as freely as those that were complimenting is that a fair yeah I think there's like a natural inclination to allow positive comments and sometimes boards or governments will shut down negative comments there that invoke the rule at that point and that comes off as Viewpoint discrimination and so that's why it's It's Tricky and it can cause a lot of confusion do does that apply to all all rules of procedure and in our councils and boards and whatnot I I know we've I know we've wiggled around a little bit every once in a while is does that put us in in some kind of like this legal danger and and what was the outcome did they have to pay a fine or did they just have to change the rules um well at the 11 circuit the the government had prevailed at the trial court level and so there was an appeal and so it's gone back down for reconsideration not quite sure what the outcome has been at the trial court um presumably they will be on the hook for some type of damage or injunction um likely they'll just change their rules to comply with the 11 circuit's opinion all right I think the general rule to take from the case which I think this Council has applied is you know the the First Amendment rulings have changed so much even since I first started practicing that uh you know uh tolerate criticism when people come to speak about County issues sure um you know because as you can see in this case I think the argument was they weren't allowed to is that a fair statement as much right the rule tended to be inv Ed when the comments were critical and positive comments when even personally directed were allowed to F that's least was the allegation all right thank you Sarah thank you Mike Sarah just a couple quick questions the uh on page three it says generally council members do not ask questions um generally doesn't mean always it means generally we did that this morning um no issues with that at all asking I mean I understand why we don't ask answer questions of everybody that comes up here because our six hour meeting would go till U till you know 9 or 10 hours um go ahead Sarah oh I was just just to clarify meaning when uh the council members asked questions of the members of the public is there any problem with that is that your question no where after the count if the public speaks we usually don't give an answer to their concerns we did to two very important ones tonight because of the nature of the of the complaints and I'm just confirming that that was within our current rules I think Council can deal with that on a Case by case basis I I I agree I think that's how it should be done there's an uh one hour limit at the beginning the meeting is there a 1-h hour limit on public comments at the end of the meeting no okay that's the way it's written I just wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand it um okay and I would like to ask the council if there's any um uh any appetite for eliminating the 1H hour time limit at the beginning of the meeting on General Public comments we'll see what comes up in in comments uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair I'll yield that question because I think it looked like councilman Kent wanted to address that uh so I'll yield to that my question was I think it was pretty much answered by the chairman in the same line if we want to respond to not answering a question but they come up with accusations or whatever the case may be we're we're permitted to respond to that correct so that particular provision isn't addressed by this um ordinance change um and so really what we were concerned about with this amendment is when we're restricting public comment based on sometimes the message that they're trying to express now whether you engage in a uh you know conversation with members of the public that could be a decision made by the chair would you like to respond then I you know I haven't researched that question I don't think as I sit here now that that has First Amendment implications there may be Rules of Order um and you know how you want to conduct the meeting that you should consider um but as far as what the 11 circuit says in this particular case that it didn't address that in that decision so that's something based on rules of the meeting that that we would initiate is that something that we can entertain yeah I mean I think um what I take from reading some of these cases is the first rules just work to be consistent you know if someone feels they're being treated differently then another group that causes problems and can be a basis for a lawsuit I think the premise behind what you have in your ordinance which is very common I see in ordinances is you're allowing input on items not on the agenda County business but not on the agenda and you have a time limit whatever it may be if say I think in this case it was an hour someone said well why do you have that well I think the rationale for it whether you agree with it or not is you have a business meeting to get to mhm um and you don't want your public inut time to turn into a situation where you're having a conversation uh for a couple hours on an issue and you haven't even gotten to your no I think that's something that the the chairman can others can disagree I mean but I think that's the premise for it um understand but I think the council would have the freedom to make changes if they wanted to the only reason I say that is because some of those comments can be inflammatory derogatory against someone's character um you know yeah you could take it to court if you wanted to but as far as a civil issue but um what's said is said and for the record and I think that as much as that individual has the right to say what they want to say if it's inflammatory towards one of these gentlemen up here then they should have the right to respond but I I can also see that it shouldn't go back and forth back and forth because then it gets into a that's yeah councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair I think there's a couple things here I think what what she's staff is presenting is just a protected speech from the public that's really the the agenda item is specific to that right um our speech um um Matt is dictated by us right when we speak and what you know we speak is is is our own um this this is to keep us out of legal trouble um from the Public's protected speech however to answer your question Matt I mean there's always the opportunity I think this Council wouldn't deny anybody if they said I needed a moment of personal privilege right um you say that that to me is like I'm backing off do what you got to do you're responsible for your own speech right that's the way at least I would take it Mr chair um if you wanted to respond to something um since we opened the door to that public comment I mean I think today um was an example of a gentleman that spoke for 3 minutes on nothing to have to do with County Business right um I don't even know what it was just anyway and that wasted three minutes of our business meeting in my opinion because there's nothing we can do for that individual what he was saying um regarding I think what Scientology or something like that's what it was right right so um I think um that I think we those those were protected from shutting down that's what our legal team has if it's got nothing to do with City excuse me County Business then they're not protected speech is that fair can we get clarification yeah I think you know if you do have somebody that is not speaking on an item that come could come before you um you could direct them back to a county issue or discontinue their comments correct that's what I've seen in the past okay so thank you Mr chair but thanks for bringing it before us to keep us out of trouble councilman Kent chairman um Mr Dyer s stole some of my thunder I was just going to say I I appreciate you wanted us to um talk about our 1H hour time limit at the beginning of the meeting I think that goes right in line with most elected bodies that I have seen um I think the three minutes that we give everybody uh people are prepared for the most part most of them speak right up to the three minute marks they know exactly they they've worked on it they've timed it they've been home reading it in the mirror I don't blame them I told you all I've done that when I have something to present to all of you um I'm Mr Dyer's correct and i' I've had uh discussions with constituents who are like this isn't the they say this isn't a business meeting this is our meeting and I I respectfully disagree with them this is a business meeting we get two opportunities a month to come together as an elected elected body to do the work in the sunshine and to make sure that the contracts that need to get done get done in a timely manner these are business meetings so um I was I was personally surprised when I first got elected and uh read through all of the rules that we have a second public comment period at the end of our meetings I think that's very liberal and um i' I've been fine with it we normally only have one person who who stays till the end of those meetings and then takes advantage of that opportunity to speak to us twice personally I happen to like most of what he says I don't agree with it but for whatever reason I've never I never knew the guy until this but but John John does a good job so chairman I am I'm with sticking with what we have the one hour I think is is plenty long and um you know it just I'm for one that if we have a hot button issue and we want to extend it and the majority of the council wants to that's one thing but if we had a hot button issue and we had a ton of business things that we needed to take care of I would be okay with stopping it at an hour getting the business part of the meeting done and then continuing as well so I I'm for keeping what we have councilman Johansson and one final comment this meeting 6-hour meeting is not the only time that the public can communicate with us it's the only time that you can communicate on the podium in front of the TV so you can go watch yourself later but uh but there's a a lot of you probably most of you in here who have emailed us all seven and and probably the the county manager and the lawyer and and believe me that that works equally as well and I'll tell you usually an email gets more than three minutes of my time so um uh there's a lot of other opportunities or phone numbers I think are all in the website and uh I know three or four of us for sure get back to everybody um so um uh I imagine the rest of them do is as well so there there's a lot of ways for the public to make their problems known to council other than being here uh having said that for most of you who are here for these events I I know why you come and there's a lot of great conversation and a lot of great uh points um that that ring true and and help frame our discussion so I appreciate that as well thank you sir okay we do have one public comment I I'll just um respond to what you said Jake I I and and Troy I this is a public uh it is a business meeting but we're doing the business of the the public and you know how I feel I'm always sensitive to the fact that when our employers come to speak to us that we should listen I I'm not sure that Jake that anybody comes here to see themselves on on TV or or a video stream because most people it scares them to death to come here and speak in in public so I I I just I think that's a little unfair I think they come to speak because they think it's really important and there's probably no better way to transmit a message than in person um John Nicholson you're done okay then we have a motion on the floor to accept item six as presented correct M all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero item seven resoning of 10.4 Acres thank you very much 830 do drive and director Irvin good evening uh this is a request from the property owner requesting resoning of 10 vacant acres of land located at 8:30 do drive this is in the oine community uh it went through the staff review staff determined that it is consistent with your comprehensive plan forwarded on to the planning Land Development regulation commission with a recommendation from staff of approval there was a public hearing at the uh planning and Land Development regulation commission uh there was a person who spoke in support of the request so is coming to you now with a recommendation of approval from both the staff and the planning and Land Development regulation commission there's any questions be glad to answer them uh Matt Reinhardt for questions yes yes sir um CL I noticed in this that it talked about it's a 10 acre spot basically to be split in two one of which for a friend or whatever um is he the owner the one will maintain ownership of the proper it's not being split number one the applicant is requesting the ability to change to build a second home okay and and the the critical thing that you have to look at is the land use that's underneath it is rural and a rural would allow for the five acres for the five acres and I guess the one the the concern was Wetlands but the wetlands or Wetlands buffer is not where that home is going to be uh right now they're not at that point what this is just basically giving them the approval so they can come in work with our staff and develop what has to be done to protect Tre to protect the Wetland of the okay thank you now I better understanding thank you and I I think that Matt uh Drew out the answer to my question which I knew but I wanted the public to know the size of the development okay one extra house yes sir um and the wetlands if you look at the map or extreme Edge there's a little corner of it so I don't think it'll be hard to uh to work around that but uh councilman Robbins thank you uh clay just to make sure um the wetlands on this property protected like we're not going to fill in the wetlands and drain this Wetlands correct what would ha what will happen through the development process um and let me kind of talk about staging no one goes through the process of pulling all together the plants until they're certain that they can build it on there and that's where you go through the zoning process to say yes I can now it's a matter of going through the technical specifications what will happen is we'll look at the uh Wetlands the size of the Wetland system determine the size of the buffer based on whether it's in Norma or natural resource management area or environmental Corridor overlay once that data is put in place it basically lays out where it can where the home could be placed bed on the property okay sounds good councilman Santiago to approve have a motion to approve by David Santiago and a second by Danny Robbins any other questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed and the resoning is approved 7 to zero clay that brings us to item eight a special exception for temporary campsites in Pearson uh yes sir this is an existing special exception it was put in place over 20 years ago uh the operation has been in place and continuous out there it's time to do an extension of this the applicants have come in and met with us there were some issues with regards to the length of stay of some of the RVs out there that's been resolved so that they realize that it is a temporary Campground and not a permanent Campground so therefore it's gone through your staff for review staff recommended approval and included conditions that were identified in the staff report to the planning and Land Development regulation commission at the public hearing the planning and Land Development regulation commission recommended approval subject to those conditions those are also identified and included in your staff report so it's coming to you with a recommendation approval from both those bodies and Pao is Whispering my ear about expart Communications has there been any expart on this uh on this item no none none with me no can you also clarify if there was any expar for item seven me none Mr chair councilman Santiago move to approve approve as presented by staff motion to approve seconded by Vice chair Matt Reinhardt any other questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed and item 8 is pass 7 to zero item nine appeal to the County Council of the development Review Committee denial of an overall development plan um good evening CLA I'm director of growth and Resource Management uh what we have for you tonight is an appeal based on the DRC development review committee's denial of an overall development plan uh what we're dealing with um let me kind of skip to the location uh this is back off a ranch at roads uh these this is the area of a paper plat in other words there was no roads water sewers storm water or any other type of improvements authorized for this these were the infamous subdivision or Florida land deals as we are all hearing of so this 2.7 acre track is not consistent with the comprehensive plan which has a land use of Forestry resource which requires a density of one unit per 25 acres so is less than it's approx imately 10% of what's normally required and it's not consistent with the minimum area established for the forestry resource zoning category uh again uh what you're seeing is your staff has gone in there reviewed it as well for determination uh it's within the flood zone it's within uh the natural resource management area and this is the access to the property as you can see it's not a paved road that meets the minimum specifications for safety and other other words our emergency vehicles trash school buses Etc cannot access the property in accordance which would normally be required for any new development that would occur and we have to treat this as new development even though the parcel was created many years ago it did not have all of the things that we require for it to be in place in other words we have now in order to protect and again remember your subdivision regulations are consumer protection standard it means that I'm buying this lot knowing that I have the roads water sewer storm water and all the necessary infrastructure so that I can have a safe location we don't have that in this situation and that is why we've recommended or the DRC denied this one and previous ones in the past and so again there are some issues here there was a home that was built out here in approximately 1996 without any permits this is a very isolated area people can get back in there they constructed the home so we have no proof that the home complies with the Florida building code or any prior building codes that we would have enforced in 1996 uh we've had multiple inquiries about whether or not this property could be renovated occupied and in January of 20123 there were four inquiries about the same parcel all four inquiries got the same respon response no it is not a valid lot and that we would not recommend approval of it here's your process and I got to realize something your staff when we talk with folks we say no we also have to identify the process that they can go through if they feel that they have a right to try for it so we cannot with tell them that they came and make an application so that is what we did in January of 2023 uh the current owner purchased the property in February 2023 and it's been working through the county staff uh they initially were trying to um uh there was a request for determination of an exempt lot that was denied now what we're dealing with is basically a situation where they're seeing that they could go through the overall development plan process like we had done on a previous application and are seeking a uh an appeal of the drc's denial I'll be here to be able to answer any of your question questions but as we said in the prior items it doesn't comply with the comp plan doesn't comply with your zoning ordinance and it does not have the infrastructure necessary to support development before I go to questions is there any experte to declare any conversations with the attorneys the owners anybody uh Jake is out of the room well I'll confirm with him when he comes back in um and just one more thing for even though this is an appeal uh this is a appeal denovo so you get to reway all the evidence you get to take into account new evidence you're basically making an independent decision so you can approve the appeal approve with with conditions change any the conditions or deny thank you uh councilman Ken chairman I don't have any questions yet I um I'll hear from if the applicants here and then maybe I may have some questions after that I have one question uh for you clay um the house was built without any permits yes sir but I want to make sure I understand page three it it says that if the council were to uphold the drc's decision to deny the application that the house can remain we right now do not have any kind of demolition order for it what would happen is if you uphold the denial of the appeal then we would be going after the property owner talking to them about the fact that they have a home that does not comply with the code now they can they could come in and get after the fact permits and not utilize it for a residential they would have to take out everything that would make it a home and they could use it for an Agricultural structure as we stated with the prior one the fact is is that this has forestry resource zoning so they are allowed to have some limited agricultural activities and they could modify the structure to be a agricultural structure so then it would be exempt from from the Florida building code but as far as trying to occupy it as a structure they cannot do so after if the denial is upheld so they don't have a a CO correct so they can't live in it correct but the house can could remain well and to do go through the process that you just laid out correct okay thank you councilman Kent okay uh that's the end of of questions Jessica I think we're an evening good evening for the record Jessica gal cob callof from one Daytona Boulevard Daytona Beach Florida um clay had on the brief history of this site um our clients purchase this property um with the acknowledgement that there were discussions with County staff that in order to be eligible for building permits they'd have to go through a review process um the overall development plan process after the fact permitting all of that um what they did not understand and land you surprises me sometimes right so let alone the average citizen um is that staff and I do not blame staff at all the rules are the rules the staff could not find a way to yes here um they are constrained by what the Land Development code says the the house has been there since 1996 um they bought this property you can still look up the Zillow posting it's got great photos it's there there's no additional impacts no changes um and we were brought in as a result of cod enforcement review um for some accessory structures um but a key point to whether you know the decision here today really is can they stay in their forever home acknowledging that this is the start of a process um there are some comments in the staff report that the road needs to be raised and widened we acknowledge that um if an ODP denial or approval is issued we have to go back through with County staff on every item except the lot size and the density um and see how we can comply with the code if we need to go for variances which I know we do there's a setback variance issue already with the existing structure that you can see on the survey the problem is if this ODP is denied you can't apply for permits to memorialize what's already there um clay has noted that it could be modified into an agricultural structure if they had a Bonafide agricultural use but this is a home they spent a large sum of money to make it their forever home and I cannot blame staff again like I said I think this is just something that that if they had the time and resources to go um after their predecessors and interest they might um but right now we're just trying to find a solution and so while on its face it does not meet the zoning and the land use density and lot size we're asking for consideration to bring it as much into compliance as it can be to meet all of the other permitting standards allow this home to remain um this started under n and when she left cob Cole she handed the site over to me and she said this one's important um I think that the the clients are emotional about this they've hired an engineer they know that they need to do Road workor and improvements and all the after the fact permitting um they are ready and willing to do that the question today is can we find a path forward for these homeowners um it is above the base flood elevation at least from the earlier maps that we have but we'll verify all of that during staff review as well I'm here for questions but that's really the overview on this site okay uh councilman Robbins uh thank you mine is more directed for clay mcal clay I appreciate your your your work on this I know um this area along with like Daytona Park Estates is unique in nature and it it poses a bunch of challenges just because of how it was originally done way before I was even on this Earth with that being said what's stopping us from uh when we which these conditions are rare what's stopping us from doing a non-conforming uh lot which is common um and when it comes to the roads the pictures that you shown there and i' I've been out here and I'm not how do I put this right this person should have got permits way back when I'm not uh agreeing with how this came about but um like our staff you know how can we how can we fix this um and how do we do it right because those roads that I saw right there there's legal roads those are ex excellent go back further like on Cedar and a couple of these other roads back in there they're half the size some of them are like a goat path but yet there's legal homes built on them so there's some conflicting we're not telling the whole story about this area um and there's some inherent risks when you buy in these certain areas like Daytona Park Estates like out here um that are that are very unique and there's ways to do it I know there is um can we maybe talk about that well to clarify dno Park Estates was actually vested in 1976 when Bia County decided to put in place subdivision regulations for the protection of the public they went out and conducted the inspections and verified that it met the criteria for being a vested subdivision so that meant that they could continue on developing out in that area similar test was done for this area and it was determined it wasn't vested right so therefore that's how you determine whether something is a legal non-conforming this is a non-legal nonconforming lot and I understand that but how did they vest back then what Lots were buildable and which ones were not it was based on the road conditions amount of sales and the amount of development that uh already occurred it's contained in chapter 72 and article three of our subdivision standards and it talks in in in quite very specific details of what vest something this area never got vesting and the reason why you're seeing staff concerned is that there's over 2,000 Lots in this area that if we continue to take them down one by one by one by one we will not have it will make the issues that we're facing in Daytona Park States pale in comparison to what we're facing out here because these are not public roads they were never accepted by Valia County for owners ship and maintenance and so when you hear us being very concerned about it this is opening the gate where you will have lots of one two three acres where your comp plan says it has to be a minimum 10 acres minimum 25 acres right it's in the flood plane get it it's in Norma so these are all things that when we as planners look at them we're saying this is not the appropriate place for even projects of 2 Acres 5 Acres we're looking that it should be 10 25 acre homesteads on primarily Agricultural and Forestry resource areas we have great sympathy for folks that unfortunately make that unfortunate acquisition it is and as Miss gal said land use and Zoning is unfortunately very complicated we try and help out by providing letters of clarity the owner of this proper property or the previous owner who sold it to the current property owner was well informed of the fact that this was not a buildable developable lot so it's a it's an unfortunate situation we hate it too we wish this had never happened but unfortunately we're facing a situation where we don't want to have the pro proliferation of development in an area that's not appropriate for this level of intensity and the reason I asked clay there's some homes back there that are on smaller Lots like this that have approved homes on it with narrower roads what do as a district rep how do I explain that in a condensed version that hey these ones are are legal they don't they they don't have as good as a road as you um their lot is just the same if not smaller or maybe under 5 acres in the same Corridor how do we start if we're going to shut this area down we need to just shut it down because this has open up a terrible can especially if we find out I mean is this house flood prone can we get people to sign a waiver I mean that hey the county is not responsible for this this this and this and you have knowledge I mean how can we get ahead of this well on that specific issue I would be very very careful because that's what got a lot of places down Southwest Florida in trouble with FEMA because just having someone acknowledge they're in a flood zone and and and is not acceptable to FEMA so we're we have to be very cognizant of the the fact that FEMA is taking Construction in the flood plane very seriously and penalizing local governments if they do not follow the rules appropriately in regards to what can be said you know the fact is is there was a lot of things done prior to 1976 that we have to live with because they were done back then subsequently in 1976 with the subdivision regulations in the unified zoning regulations that came in the 1980s with the adoption of the comprehensive plan with each new refinement where we've identified specific problems that require some sort of regulatory action that is going to wind up with these unfortunate situations where some Property Owners cannot do exactly what they see across the street Miss scow is the applicant open do we know if this house is up to any sort some sort of standard I just listen it shouldn't have been done I don't want to see it happen again but I I I don't know if tearing down the house or or limiting their I I just I don't have an answer I don't know yeah and so I think to that point um a few responses to what clay has outlined is I understand the risk of setting a precedent right one I think that all of these appeals stand on their own legally um but I think that here we have a structure that's been there since 1996 I understand that it is not legally non-conforming um but that also means that if this appeal is approved they have to go through and permit the structure under today's code to the extent possible and so I said at the beginning this is the start of the process one I will say they haven't had any flooding concerns during any of the storms they say it's a great site um but if this is approved we go back through the overall development plan process with the county staff um we see if there are any other modifications we have to go through a variance process to blrc we have to widen the road and raise it um in compliance with fire standards and then we have to open up the walls take a peek at all the architecture and see what needs to be upgraded on the structure to meet the floor building code so this is just a shout out into the void if anyone else has an empty lot in this area or home it is not a process that I would envy or say it's a great idea they're willing to go through all that all of it they just want the chance to make with no guarantees correct well okay J thank you councilman Johansson so I I stepped in the back but and I don't know if I missed but this this was a sale from one property owner to another without a real estate agent it was a cash deal and and to the County's knowledge clay there's no due diligence at the county prior to buying and I will say too I think there was some um they got a copy of the letter that Sam West provided to the previous owner that said in order to be eligible for building permits you'd have to go through this process and check these boxes so they they bought this property knowing that it could not get a current building permit not that they could not stay in their home home the staff report is still a little unclear on that all right that's that's the only question I have Jake before I move on you were out of the room uh do you have any expar to declare on this thank you uh yeah he just touched on the on the problem you you were hired to help solve this problem did you take them through the DRC uh Nico did through the overall development plan review with staff it got one round of review those comments are in your staff report um and it was determined that the overall development plan couldn't be approved um which is not what they thought going into it they thought we go through this process we have some conditions we build it in um so it was a a shock to get there your clients did not build this they bought it correct already built all existing since 1996 knowing that it couldn't Beed pardon me knowing that it couldn't be expanded right you have a tough job I to to do that I mean every um what's your answer to solve this for this I will say that this decision solely rests in all of your hands today on whether they can find a path forward my job is sometimes hard yours is harder um it's emotional U I understand the precedent setting nature of this but I also think that if we can find a path forward for one of our residents that brings this structure that's been there for over third almost 30 years um more into compliance I mean the last I think four or five owners before our client have loved this site they've sold it they haven't seen any issues um like I said it's the start of a long process the road would get better the structure may be improved um we've already had some accessory structures that have been move that were're within a setback and so it's it's a step towards compliance it can never get fully there um but that's where we are okay uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um I think a couple of the questions already answered that I had but all we're doing is if we do is to allow this process to start them knowing that they may not still have a home to live in correct and it just like you just said I think it was best said the possibility to bring it into compliance and I know that we had a recent issue kind of similar to this but they had no home MH uh at all and we allowed a home to be built this home exists no flooding roads like you said that we have pictures of we didn't have the roads of the or pictures of the roads in the last one um and they they fully know that know this that uh even even if we say yes go ahead try the permitting and they may be denied and they're right back to square one they just want the opportunity opportunity to try thank you councilman Kent thank you chairman I'm I'm goingon to make a motion I'm going to follow staff's lead motion to deny I'll second it you have a motion to deny by Troy Kent seconded by David Santiago anything else Mr Kent no councilman Robins now there's a motion on the floor I I I don't have anything I had something else um beforehand but it's okay yeah this this is a tough one and Troy I I um I understand your motion I I don't see any way around it we we've changed the comp plan once recently same area similar circumstances and now we're back with the next one and then will there'll be a next one and the next one the whole purpose of the comp plan was because it's a low area that floods and it's high it's very low density and this is making it fairly high density and I don't know about any other council member here but the the issue that I have with this is that we'll get calls from people Mr Robins correct ly asked can we make them sign something to say that we'll be responsible for it well that's happened in in the past and there's property owners that know they can't that they have to maintain their own roads and canals um and yet when it gets messy they call the county and and blame us that we're not there um servicing their roads and making it acceptable for emergency vehicles so I my concern is that if we just go on and continue to allow this um we're creating a big problem down the road for people to live in an area that they were was correctly uh planned that they shouldn't because it's it's dangerous so it's chairman it's a tough one may I just respond to that very briefly I'll just say this in in in 21 plus years of of of making decisions I have one that bothers me and it was the one we did very similar it was a tough decision then I wasn't happy either way and I'm I'm not going to do it again thanks thank you uh councilman Robbins yeah chair and Mr Ken I think you're I think you're correct I think we're all kind of in that boat I know that we all want to we don't like denying things but the what we have is what we have it's a soup sandwich and so okay at the at the at the end of the day where where I come in knowing what we know I look at the pursuit of happiness this is their Pursuit of Happiness we're kind of giving them as a government a false hope I mean we okay go through this process but I don't know I want everybody to pursue their happiness if we're offering them an out even if as as crazy as it may be I know if you go out there there's other homes on the same amount of lot you know same density lots that were approved that's what make this so hard because they have like properties like this out there I just pulled it up on onx again to to verify my my memory I would just hate that hate to deny them as as as crazy as this sounds that pursuit of of their happiness because we kind of gave them an out as unclear as it may be councilman Johansson thank you sir um I one of the options I believe is they can they can bulldo and build something yes nothing it could only be an agricultural based structure it cannot have any residential serve all right um so many times we have implied or flat out said uh that that people rely heavily on the government to fix their problems this sounds like a problem between two private uh private citizens one who sold knowing something to another person who bought kind of knowing something and now they're in a spot and want to try to get out of the spot um uh I I concur with the with the chairman or whoever just said it but I feel bad on both sides I think it was Troy I do I'm you know I lived in in rural Western New York growing up and I don't think we ever pulled a permit for anything we did in our house glad we sold it I guess but but nonetheless I I it's almost a buyer beware situation can you take a chance can you assume risk um sure the odds are the past five people got away with it well come to find out that they tried to do the right thing and and we started looking into it and find out they did wrong I would imagine that that there's got to be some private legal solution maybe not what they want but what they can get um uh if if they choose to go that route it's unfortunate that they can't rebuild because it sounds like rebuilding might be cheaper than all the mitigation they they have to do to to get it up to up to most of our standards um uh but I fall back on the the the government can't solve everybody's personal problems and unless somebody can tell me why this isn't a personal problem I consider it a private matter thank you councilman Dempsey if I could ask Paulo or maybe Brad or clay huh is there any possibility of doing like a a temporary permit like for instance if we gave them a life estate type of permit to where this would revert to the government I'm not saying I'm just wondering if this would fall within like vucha forever if we could maybe acquire this property under vucha forever and all the vacant ones or for existing structures are we able to to give them a life estate type of permit and then have it revert to the government no because we don't we have no interest whatsoever on in the property so we can't give any any property interest to it um Your Role is is the issuance of um development orders and development permits that are in compliance with the comprehensive plan so essentially what you're what you're being asked is you know uh to wave the uh density and the lot size and the um the uh paved Public Access portion so if you do so um then they would have to comply with all the other codes including the building the floor to building code flood plane and things like that um so that's that's the role rather than um you know the government providing an interest or taking an interest um but I'll defer to Brad on uh whether or not BL forever is an option yeah okay is Brad here in the back he left when he heard your question sorry Brad make you so yes sir uh Brad is there any chance that maybe valua forever might see some value in acquiring a large portion of these properties yes and we have a program for it it's called the small lot acquisition program our team acquired about 40 lots and nine Antiquated subdivisions this is one of the target areas and but I think and clay and I did the analysis of Daytona Park Estates um because it you asked us to do that previously but because there's so many houses built if you continue toow allow houses to be built out there it raises the price so we offered the just value on the property of Appraiser's website because it's a non un buildable lot that's our program is it being advertised in the area yes we have it's a open call so it's but there's also on our web page we have lots of people who have owned these Lots or their parents have owned them since the 60s and they've been paying taxes on them and they just want them off their asset sheet okay and how many did you say we acquired in this neighborhood we acquired uh 40 last year around 40 and then um we can show you the maps there's probably about 7,000 of these Lots across the C County you acquired 40 here in this neighborhood no across the county okay but we can we can do a push we've got some more staff now in blue Shi forever we feel more comfortable with um our workload and we can certainly do a push if that's council's desire okay all right thank you yes sir did you acquire any in this neighborhood I would I would have to look okay okay but there are some that we have over the years yes we have acquired some in in this neighborhood know if that last year was one of the years okay thank you yes sir Jessica I'm going to let you close this out and I have a question for you it's fair or unfair is there did they use a realtor to buy this I'm sure um is there any is there anything uh wow in terms of recourse I I will say this any recourse with a realtor who took a fee and how do they sleep at night well I will say that uh I get a lot of clients who were told a realtor told me this would never happen in our backyard or that we could do this on this property um if it's not something that's that's known and disclosed it's kind of up in the air I don't litigate it but there could be a claim there could not be um these Property Owners bought put their life savings into this home it's less than a th000 square F feet it's one house um that's been there they have been faced with a very long journey ahead of them well very long journey to get here and if a majority of this board says you can keep going a very long journey ahead um to keep that home that they spent their life savings on and so while there could be some private recourse they don't have the appetite the emotion the time the the funds um surprisingly we are actually you know cost- effective as attorneys in regard to litigation um so we're trying to find a a path forward for them I can't say whether or not the realtor told them exactly what I think some the realtor had some discussions with County staff um but I will say even reading the letters in the background and again there's there's no blame it's just a confusing situation I think the the outcome to our client was got it we have to go through this process it was not got it we have to tear down the home we just purchased and so with that again here for questions okay thank you very much uh councilman Robbins chairman I I I uh I sense where the board's at but if I didn't do this uh for for my constituent I'd be wouldn't given it are all here to find find the yes do we have a letter from staff where that where that letter is and what it says it's in your I I must have missed it it's in the packet I'll let me I don't know the page number right off the bat it's from 2023 page nine of the agenda packet is there any way we can put it up on the screen screen Carissa see what it says I'm sorry and I'll I'll shut up after this I just want to make sure we didn't chair are they buying Pizza cuz their phone went off nice chair can me just one second you keep the clock letter from Jennifer Ward to Jennifer Ward from Samantha West who is in the land vment the critical sentence is on the first one of the second paragraph Flur ranches has never been determined to have vested rights the development engineer cards to reflect the Flor is not eligible for be building permits therefore the subject property is not eligible building permits currently it must receive in subdivision requirements in sub two see in a transitions from therefore the sub is not eligible but to make it eligible this let's go to the second page and again this gets back to we cannot tell someone they cannot application right chairman another thought for this too is we talked about this I think it was in the prior Administration um about making some of these areas that are like this areas where in these transitional areas where they're more affordable housing uh or opportunities for more affordable housing you remember that M that and because we talked about the um the single wides and double wides and stuff and and offering some of these areas I don't know I'm trying I know it's hard for but I'm I'm I'm inclined to go with Mr Kent's suggestion at this point and let them go through maybe a legal process privately and till it comes back to us so councilman Kent yeah chairman I'll just add you know they built it without permits non-conforming to the minimum 20 acre area required um it it's it's too many things wrong with this so um I'm I'm going to stick with my motion thanks yeah unfortunately in in this case I'm I'm going to call the ask uh Christ to call the role CU I I don't know where we are um councilman Robbins I you know everybody's heart wants to say you know Grant the appeal I think I think we're doing them a disfavor if we do that that it's we need to let them get along with their lives instead of throwing good money after after bad anyway Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Dempsey hold hold on one second the motion was to go with staff's recommendation of denial so if you vote Yes you're voting to deny yes that was a yes Mr jmsey yes yes Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt back and forth but Brad bbau Community Services director so item before you a request from two of Our Community Partners one is the city of Doo Beach can uh request in our continued support of the firststep shelter and uh the Coalition uh for homelessness here in in Valia county is asking for some funding uh some operational funding to stand up their shelter so kind of go through the brief history of the item you oh he's got it there for me so this is a brief overview of the requests we have from each of the organizations Brad before you go into that so that everybody knows how to listen yes can we take each of these SE SE separately yes please yes you can thank you um so one is as I said city of Daytona Beach uh we provided a significant amount of capital and operating over the previous 5 years they're asking for an extension of our 5-year agreement so it's a $400,000 per year but an overall $2 million ask um for shelter operations the Coalition for the homelessness is 145,000 for their first year they have uh I believe 24 beds 24 beds they've got like uh 10 they are serving the fastest growing segment of our homeless popul population in this County which is elderly so it's for senior citizens um with this funding they'll be able to breach capacity and stand the shelter up over the next few years and develop their own revenue streams so just wanted to provide a a snapshot of you know what we've provided and so if you look at this table here you have the county provided Capital so yes we provided Capital to all of these because our model has been to develop capacity in the system we always want to have capacity in the system um so that there's places for people to go in our community that may be experiencing a crisis um as you will see here and the the years are important and so that we had not provided operating support to any shelter until first step so you can see in 2017 we had a the agreement the shelter that we had helped previously with capital as came back and asked for operational dollars at that time as well so you can see it 2017 really is when they started coming back we have a agree whoever wrote the agreement um understood that the language I've included in the agenda item but it was basically you know we we'll provide the startup don't expect the support and perpetuity uh and but we can still use the shelter was the language and the agreement that we had with everyone so when we talk about different funding strategies you can see here kind of what the county has led on this issue and providing support to those who are developing capacity in our homelessness system so we've spent almost 12 million over the last five or so years trying to help these people um find who who may be in transition and it's a fact of our community and I shared the stat and it tracks with our homelessness population for every $100 a person's rent goes up the homelessness population increases by 9% and it tracks with the data here in vucha County perfectly so there are some funding options for Council to consider what we've provided um we've heard you loud and clear uh in terms of general fund dollars are scarce so we sharpened our pencils and looked to see what are our federal grants so everything we funded before this time in terms of operating and capital with the exception of veterans the um the new veterans facility was arpa funds was from the general fund as I said we've heard you loud and clear so there are two Grant two federal grants that we um get um that we can uh earmark a percentage of the proceeds for shelter operations through public services so here you have an with our emergency Solutions Grant we could allocate up to 89,000 our cdbg grant we could um uh allocate up to 255,000 and then what are some in terms of options for first step is to I'm not going to read the slide to you you guys can see here there's a couple of hybrid options there for you if you would like to consider uh we've tried to hold the general fund harmless as you've seen uh in terms of providing options to council but with that I'll answer any questions you may have I know the mayor is here as well I'm sure he'd like to speak Mr chair thank you yes sir uh which mayor mayor Henry of Daytona Beach yes okay um councilman Robbins the you have a question before for Brad pardon me for Brad go ahead Brad I thank you for for putting this together I understand it kind of puts us in a little bit of a jam just with with our our prior um dialogue or or uh contract with this but nonetheless what I didn't see is the opio advisory committee we approved some funding that I was under the impression that could alleviate this burden and take this from federal funds can you can you talk to us I didn't see that um on here it is yeah that is correct that happened I think before we finalized the PowerPoint or after but we did under council member uh Robin's leadership kind of talk had a discussion with our our opioid advisory Council in terms of allowing homeless homeless shelters um in South Florida they're using it some of these opioid dollars for shelter operations however there are some State rules in terms of um replacing funds so there's certain ways that you can um expand your programs but use some of the operational dollars um to address substance abuse to substitute for some of this money that we've um that's been requested I know that we're having a special um request for proposals right now that's ongoing um that's for the homeless sector only so we have multiple partners in the industry who will be applying for this money hopefully I mean our ultimate goal is to get to functional zero which is as many people are coming into the homelessness system are being rehoused out of the system during that year so can those funds from the opioid dollars can can those alleviate or or this burden if if if it were approved can we um fill this Gap with those o opioid dollars yes or no can I have a caveat to it sure it can't replace current dollars so if it's something they're already doing but if they're expanding like for example I know first step has expanded their population significantly so that would be an expansion of programming and not replacement dollars and is that and how they Wordsmith that is that something that we can get them to where they need to be with with this funding to help my team is committed to helping First Step be successful thank you councilman Santiago just to expand on Danny's question um what what's the potential dollar amount from that funding source so it's over the course of it's to stand up new program so it's not over the lifetime period so it would be for a Time limited period um right now we have people you can request up to $500,000 and the to up to for two years of service or a single year but after that the expectation is that if you are a good program and you're getting good results you should be able to find other revenue streams to support that so it's a thank you you answer my question councilman Johansson Brad can you describe what other possible revenue streams that have been or have not been tapped into yet state and federal grants so I think that um through cdbg CV which is the Corona virus you know we this this body um approved another million dollars to first step to do some some renovations to allow them to do separation that is an untapped market for the first step shelter in terms of applying I know that she's applied in the past but I think there's been some issues the the Quasi governmental kind of arrangement that they have there is limiting um is what I've been told is there any way we can help them un quasy that bureaucracy yes we I'm committed to that it would be if first step's committed to that all right and um and are you confident that state and federal dollars will still be available given the the current Administration or what are your thoughts you know I I've been trying to read on the new HUD secretary's background and what he's communicating out there right he has recognized homelessness as a problem and his his he led the opportunity zones that that Trump had in his first Administration MH and his thing is he said HUD has lost their way in terms of the focus on getting people in houses so their solution is to focus on Factory built housing which I think some of our habitats are doing now as well yeah so it takes I think that we met with habitat our West Land habitat he said it takes eight months to build a stick built house and it takes six weeks to build a manufactured looking at Carmen six weeks so uh with some staff help and some willingness Ingenuity and willingness you you think we can get out of this business in a year or two out of the providing support is promising something over I will say that I think there's always a place for us in the startup right Arena to and may that be federal grants are showing our support because they're we have a really good system for people in crisis experiencing a crisis and they're not chronically homeless of getting them rehoused we're going to share some of that data with you at the next meeting so I think having our goal would ultimately be to have no folks no veterans you know that's one of our targets as well living on the streets but that's not the case but we have great Partners in the homelessness system that I think will help us get there but they know now you know what that what our model is and I don't think that's been communicated before what our model has been um but now they know thank you that's all chairman thank you um before there's nobody else uh waiting for a question before we go on I'd like to ask uh mayor Derek Henry if he would like to uh speak to the council Mr chairman thank you for the opportunity to share yes sir gentlemen members of the Das um I certainly sympathize with the challenge that you all have in considering this ask and I understand the enormity of the ask because I was the person who asked five years ago and it was just as enormous and then as it is now but what I will say is that I don't think that it uh any reasonable argument can be made that says any anything other than the fact that this has been an enormously successful partnership between Daytona Beach and our partnering cities in the county uh it's it's probably been one of the most successful shelters in Florida if not the most successful uh and I understand that that success doesn't reconcile the challenge of considering using general funds Monies to help us to meet this uh challenge um but I have to say that um the shelter has been very successful uh we never wanted to be in the homelessness business as a city and we too had hoped that after these 5 years that we would be able to divorce ourselves from helping but we recognize that at the time that the shelter started probably started serving 30 or 40 people for the first couple of years the ultimate objective initially was always 100 people well we've met that threshold in five short years uh of being able to meet capacity of serving a 100 people and that's where we are now so our budget has expanded well beyond the original budget and our partners have expanded the other municipalities on the east side as well as Delan are now our partners but I will say this we've talked a lot about getting people out of homelessness into permanent housing and the motto of first step is really a a hand up not a hand out over 1,600 people have entered the firststep shelters doors for service half of them half of them have found permanent housing and more than 90% of those still have permanent housing but the reality is that the shelter needs the money to continue we won't be able to fill the Gap with that $400,000 in the next two to three years I dare say five because we're we're going to grow but and I don't want to be in the homeless business as a city I appreciate uh councilman Robin's efforts to say to try to find a solution and we'll take any solution but I will also say that the more liberated those dollars are the easier it will be for us to continue our service and I want to close with these thoughts um much has been said about Daytona Beach and we know that our city is the biggest economic driver for the community um but we've made a major de dent in homelessness and it's improved our the way that we look the way that we're we're seen by visitors so it's an economic driver for us uh it shows that we can collaborate it keeps us all pottinger compliant um and finally while we realize that we're asking you to have a lot of skin in the game certainly you're not alone we've got skin in the game the other municipalities have skin in the game and we're all saying that this is important to us uh but we do need your partnership and last thing House Bill 1365 is impacted and it gives us a place a space to meet uh the requirements that are um that that we're challenged with from the state as well as being poage and compliant so thank you for hearing me please uh consider and help us to find a way not only keep our doors open but to push forward and to do even more work thank you okay uh councilman Dempsey yeah I didn't know if mayor Henry if you could indulge me for a second abut um sir I understand a partnership with the land was in the works for about $70,000 last year is that correct that's correct that's actually in place now absolutely okay um are you aware of the the problems in Del land with the homeless population um specifically the sex offenders well I can't say I am aware of the problem of the proliferation of not so much the sex offenders okay um well are you understand that about a year ago the land enacted a a no camping ordinance uh basically stopping homeless people from sleeping on the sidewalks unless they're offered a place to go they can't arrest them right okay are you accepting sex offenders into your program no sir okay why is that um I think that would be best left for the executive director to answer the question but it's really a matter of you want to Victoria you here come up and help me with that when that's a little bit above my pay grade which is really good evening and thank you for talking with us um the answer to that question is that in our shelter it's uh non- congregate which what that means is that the women are in one dorm the men are in another dorm we also have a safe Zone area where men and women are together and the where people are is they're they're just always mixed together and so it's a safety issue and you know just to be blunt I mean we on more than one occasion we have people exhibition themselves in our shelter or are masturbating I mean and that's after we already make sure that we don't have any sex offenders so we always have to be vigilant safety is one of the most important concerns we have at our shelter and we do everything to keep everybody safe because everybody I mean when you have a hundred people that come to you with very challenging life situations and medical conditions and psychiatric conditions you just always have to be vigilant and one of the things you've got to do is you've got to make sure to do the best you can that the people who are there are not going to be violent with the other residents or with staff or other things okay do you have security there yes we do okay 247 um no I'm not talking about sexual predators I'm talking about sex offenders you don't allow either classification is that correct correct okay so do you understand that the default is now that these sex offenders are left to sleep on the streets of the land because they cannot be offered a place to go such as your place I'm not aware of any shelter that allows in sex offenders and it's all for the same reason it's because you have to have respect for the other people that are there understood but do you understand by default they're now sex offenders living right outside these Chambers no I I do understand that but I don't believe that the solution is putting them in with the other people yeah and and here's the other issue D land I don't think that's been brought to us as a as a as a board it wasn't a part they didn't Express that as an issue when they chose to sign up uh they recognize as all of the other cities that there are still benefits to being a partner with us uh because we I I understand that that's a challenge but the reality is that the problem is so big that we've got plenty you know enough people that we need to serve that we're missing and I'm not saying it so so maybe we need as a community come up with another solution but for the numbers that we're serving just think about the number of of of persons that have been diverted from jail by virtue of them being in the shelter so we've when we initially started this we believ that it would be a a huge uh jail diversion benefit to us while we don't have the numbers on that that's something that in the future I think we need to begin to try to uh articulate and be able to express the value that we bring in that area as well okay well just to I mean I'm sorry that the land hasn't brought it up to you but I've talked to high ranking officers within the city police department and they've told me that this is a problem uh spefic specifically the ordinance is 20242 that prohibits public camping before they can make an arrest for public camping they have to be offered a place to go and then if they refuse to go then they can be placed under arrest unfortunately sex offenders cannot be arrested all other public campers my understanding is can be arrested because they're offered your place and if they refuse to go to the Shel the first step then they can be arrested but sex offenders they can't touch because there's no place they can offer them to go in light of that do you think your organization would be willing to reconsider the restrictions against sex offenders in your I I would have to say that you know given the numbers and the reason that we've implemented this policy that's that's not a good fit for our shelter understand okay all right I just had to ask thank you sir you be honest I'm not goingon to yeah wel thank you uh councilman Robbins thank you chair thank you mayor ma'am do you guys uh take in children at your shelter no we only we have single adults so no mothers uh single mothers with children none of that we have single mothers but they're not with their children okay all right thanks and and and and the part of that was that this was for single adults originally when we started and and and second guys have have we U lobbied um all the cities that use y all services uh and you guys some of May laugh but uh I compare this kind of like NATO how NATO's broke broken up everybody pays their proportionate share on on usage or defense in that case um is is everyone paying is there any lopsided payments in here there there's a there's one lopsided payment one municipality is not is there any way we can spread this out over the 16 cities kind of equally or by usage or we we don't we don't have all 16 cities okay we have mainly the East Side cities and D land okay um and then the county is considered a partner because anyone living in the county jurisdiction is eligible for this service so we work closely with the sheriff's department thank you councilman Santiago just one question um staff talked a little bit about some different funding options some federal dollars and some states are you uh open to pursuing any of those well we have we have okay and just haven't been successful is that what it is well you have the dollars if they come directly through the county we have and we didn't get them but we did get the early Grant the co Grant where we were able to do the rehabilitation to the to the shelter um but the other funding goes through What's called the Continuum of Care and the Continuum of Care makes decisions about what they want to fund and they have not wanted to fund shelter operations they wanted the money to go to H basically to housing permanent Supportive Housing or rapid rehousing dollars um unless it was a domestic violence shelter so um it's not really my decision um and so after that first year it was there wasn't it was clear that there weren't going to be sheltered dollars or not sufficient shelter dollar coming through that way and just in general it's not a terribly lot amount of money anyway that comes through there and it's divided up not just between the shelters but it's divided between all the service providers who provide any kind of homeless services to people so the dollars that do exist there's just there's just not that that much thank you thank you Mr chair thank you Vice chair Matt rinard thank you sir um just for clarification I know the answer to this already but this for educ purposes because I was asked the same question and actually had the same question before um because of the arrangement or agreement you have with the Sheriff's Office you do um Tak in individuals from Dand and DeBerry because the Sheriff's Office Supplies them law enforcement services and that is part of their contract correct no so we bring in people from D land because D land is a partner um but every city that that is a partner they they all have their own local law enforcement which they have to pay and so for example oakill recently joined us and oakill uses the sheriff's department but they still joined us because they do need to share in the costs in order for us to be able to do that because if if everybody could just use the shariff's department because they're in the county then nobody well Delon and DeBerry don't have law enforcement they actually contract with the sheriff yeah that's what I meant they don't have a municipal law enforcement agency I thought it was part of their contract if they were to uh had a homeless individual and they uh picked them up over in Delton or to Barry because they're their law enforcement agency that they would take them to the shelter I guess I was wrong well I don't we don't keep track actually of where you just say from the sheriff's office they come from the sheriff's office we take them um but originally That was supposed supposed to be yeah it's not really the way that it's supposed to be because they're still not really paying their fair share their fair share and think that led to my point before is because I mean is there a way to define that uh because I think we're we're missing something here with and no no no disrespect to Delon or De Berry but unincorporated valicia County that would be the only two areas they were bringing from because I really don't see them bringing a whole lot of people from Pearson Seville maybe I don't know I would think Deltona being as big as it is and DeBerry getting there that there are a lot more individuals that are coming to you from Delon and DeBerry that are in the city of Delon and DeBerry but because the Sheriff's Office bringing them and and it's not tracked well the sheriff's office I do know that they do bring people even from cities that are already our partners gotcha gotcha so it's not just that they if if there's if the city has their own law enforcement they're the only ones bringing them to us well I was saying it for your benefit I think you guys are missing out I think I understand we've always LIF it up to the cities to decide if they needed Services okay all right thank you very much councilman Robbins chairman if there's um is there any other public comment I make uh no but we have quite a few yes there's a lot of public comment I wanted to go into discussion but I'll I'll wait to uh to hear uh what we have uh Mr Kent yes I have I have a question for our staff okay thank you gentlemen so either Dr bbau or Mr recton wall this was all I believe uh most of this was um except for the 2022 halifi Serv Ministries veteran transitional housing it was all before any of us were up on this Council so give me a little bit of of History a little bit of background here if you don't mind so we did not you haven't heard the question yet Brad oh I'm sorry specific specifically was it the intent of County Council to um provide startup capital and then continue with funding every year after that or was it just a startup Capital that's that's what I want to know he was here yeah I I was here so uh it was intent of the County council at the time to start uh uh to the startup capital and what happened uh they committed more money than what was needed uh by the time the final construction was over so there was some money left over $2 million I believe and then they City came back and and said Well we'd like to keep that money and use it for startup money for the next 5 years so that was the Genesis of uh uh of uh how we got into the business of having the operational money but the original intent was just to help build the uh facility okay thank thank you for that for that background and then Brad refresh my memory because I thought I heard you say when you were presenting it was like a domino effect Council gave to to one group annually and then others others fell in line refresh refresh my memory who was that when we um if you look at the the date on the so that's why we have the two dates there for you so if you notice so Halifax or Ministries got 3.8 in general fund y for operating in 2016 if you look down at firststep shelter 2017 is when we made those agreements see 2017 under operating see when when hope place came back for operating after we sign the agreement with with sure same thing for Neighborhood Center sure so and I want to if I may just a point of clarification so Victoria was right when she talked about they have applied for cdbg dollars those were Capital dollars they were not operating dollars this is another track in public services that we could provide support for that has not been applied for and then then go to the next slide Brad yes sir funding options for shelter operations yes this emergency Solutions Grant and and uh cdbg Community Development block grant I is that for each group or is that total and then could be split up again total that's total yes thank you that's all I have chairman thank you uh County attorney Michael Dyer yes thank you sir Mr sorya could you just clarify a couple things I know it's a complicated topic but sure um so there's been some discussions about uh a legal requirement to fund shelters in order to uh to enforce some of our uh actually all local government's public camping laws I just wanted to update the the council you've been provided a memorandum um uh based on on a US Supreme Court case called the city of Grant Pass Oregon B Johnson and what that says is that it overturns a California n ninth circuit case um uh that that required uh uh shelter capacity in order to enforce um uh public camping laws or uh loitering laws um and the Supreme Court you know took that that ninth circuit case and overruled it and said no you do not need addition capacity in your shelter in order to enforce your public camping laws um so you know that's that's kind of the Genesis of of of the city of D's previous um ordinances uh so that that kind of implicates you know Pinger standard um Supreme Court just basically said no this it is not an eighth amendment cruel and unusual punishment to enforce public camping camping laws against involuntarily home homeless uh persons so I just kind of want to say that you know that is now the lay of the land um there's some some uh Florida uh bills um that uh came into effect in January um that kind of uh uh you know require local governments to start enforcing their public camping um ordinances we're actually bringing forth you know a uh a an amendment to our public camping ordinances to be in line with the state uh requirements um and there's been some discussion from the governor to tweak that language a little bit more in response to this US Supreme Court Grants Pass case councilman Kent you had a follow-up question I do for Dr bbau Dr bbau will you refresh uh this council's um memory and and the public as well how much money did uh the council set aside in our general fund for operating expenses for um all of these shelters 2.5 million of the previous previous budgets this budget none I'm asking specifically about this budget none the past is the past that's already happened so your answer is zero yes sir thank you we've got several members of the public that would like to speak on this all of these uh according to the subjects that they wrote down are on First Step shelter so we'll in order that they signed up uh commissioner skip white from Pont Inlet good evening council members I'm here this evening to speak on the first step shelter at some point this evening chair will grael gavel this meeting to a close we'll all return home to sleep in our beds enjoy the food that we have in our well stocked Pantry let's never forget those Among Us who will not whenever I think about the homelessness I'm remembered of an encounter I had back in the early 1980s when I was still working in sales I'll never forget that one particular difficult morning in my career when nothing seemed to be going my way as I walked to my car my head was down my posture suggested the obvious look of defeat I Came Upon A man walking towards me bearing the troubling signs of homelessness as I said good morning to him he ALS obviously noticed the ejected look surprisingly he greeted my response with a question are you a businessman he said I said yes I was he then complimented me on my appearance I was dressed in a suit and a tie his next words were Stern and forever memorable for me his statement was well then straighten up your shoulders and walk proudly he walked away I'll never will never forget that encounter a gift from a stranger that I carry me with me to this day right now there are thousands of individuals in our County that are one paycheck away from being homeless when All Is Lost and hardworking individuals follow on difficult times I feel it's important for all of us who have plenty to lend a helping hand in the process you're saving lives and light and of Darkness for those who've lost everything please support the first step shelter please support our fellow human beings who themselves often through no fault of their own or without a home no one should live on the streets nobody should go to bed hungry with a council support the first step shelter can help the homeless to straighten up their shoulders and walk proudly thank you thank you Joan companero Daytona Beach Florida I have been a part of the firststep shelter Journey ever since the idea was conceived by the faith committee on homelessness I stood on the podium of Faith meetings asking for support I met individually with City commissioners County counselors and Community leaders i s I stood at the same spot and addressed the counselors of that time on numerous occasions only to be told by them and others that we would never be successful that even if we did build a shelter no one would come there was even discussion about what we would use that empty building for once we failed well fast forward to 2025 the shelter has been in operation for 5 years thanks in part to your support we continue to grow and do amazing things for the cities of Lucha for the citizens of fuchia County we did not fail our shelters now full we're at our capacity um we've had oh close to 1,700 people come through our program of which we've housed 50% of them we've also had another close to 4500 of them in our safe Zone which we didn't mention earlier the staff of the shelter is doing amazing work please do not turn your back on the most vulnerable of our community just because our IAL agreement has expired we are doing all we can uh Dr folberg is constantly applying for any grant that comes across that she can find we're engaging businesses citizens we have plenty of people that are um private citizens that are giving their money on a monthly basis and helping us out but the bottom line is that's still not enough we can't do without your support I urge this Council to vote Yes to continue supporting the first step shelter thank you thank you Father Phillip see there he is I'm Father Phil the pastor of Our Lady of Lords C Daytona Beach good evening I stand before you today with a heart full of gratitude for the five years of support that you have given to firststep shelter and a determination rooted in the undeniable impact of firststep shelter in our community from its Inception to today the shelter has not merely been a place for people to stay it has been a Lifeline a foundation for transformation and a Beacon of Hope for those who have faced the darkest chapters of their lives as we've heard some of the numbers 1,676 people have been sheltered that's not just a number that's 1,676 stories of resilience 1,676 individuals who were given the Dignity of of a roof over their heads and a path toward stability there have been over 321,000 meals served meals that nourish not only bodies but also Spirits reminding people that they are seen valued and cared for 822 residents have been housed 49% of those who came through the doors of First Step transitioned to permanent housing and of those housed two years ago or more and astounding 94% are still in housing today these numbers speak volumes about the effectiveness of the shelter and its programs but beyond the statistics lies the human impact the story told in December's newsletter of Sandy who came to firststep shelter she'd been living on the street for 9 days and her after her boyfriend made her leave her apartment it was her first experience of homeless homelessness but not her first experience of trauma at age two her parents were killed when her freight train slammed into their car after that life became one traumatic experience after another Sandy left the shelter 97 days after arriving and moved into housing Sandy says firststep shelter gave her the opportunity to show you her who she was she said you made such a big change in my life more than you can imagine there are stories of Bill the veteran who found the courage to rebuild his life after years on the streets and the countless individuals who now walk our streets with pride and purpose all because someone believed in them and gave them a chance firststep shelter is not just a solution to homelessness it's an investment in the the future of our community every dollar spent here reduces The Strain on Emergency Services hospitals and law enforcement it is a proactive approach turning lives around before they spiral further and creating safer healthier neighborhoods for all of us the shelter has proven its value time and again it's not a handout as mayor said it's a handup and as a community we must reaffirm our commitment to this Mission if we fail to fund this vital resource we're closing doors of opportunity for the most vulnerable Among Us so I urge our County leaders let us not turn our backs on those who need us most let us not undo the incredible progress we have made instead let us continue to stand together as a community to ensure that hope dignity and opportunity remain within the reach for all together we have the power to change lives to build a community that reflects the best of who we are and to prove that every life matters thank you thank you Karen delile and you'll be followed by Michael Powers and then John Nicholson good evening my name is Karen delile and I live in Orman Beach and I'm a retired psychiatric registered nurse I'm here to address the ongoing support for firststep shelter the bloa county council's mission statement to provide responsive and physically responsible services to to improve the health safety and quality of life for its citizens the council also aims to promote democratic values and earn public trust others will inform you of firststep shelter's success rate in providing shelter medical and Mental Health Services to its clients along with permanent safe housing in the community as a retired Psy RN I can tell you that a supportive environment post discharge from the hospital be it a medical or psychiatric discharge is vital for the individual's continued stability leading to a reintegration into the community for quality of life if not provided the likelihood of interaction with other County Services be it the hospital or the jail is more likely do you remember the massive homeless uh encampment in downtown Daytona in 2016 in front of the former Sears store and the bla County offices do you remember the homeless development on the corner of Clyde Morris and Bevel Road and the worry about what are race fans going to think about Daytona Beach presently in Daytona Beach we still have people soliciting for money at many stop signs this is not a good reflection for our community are we a community that that elevates developers over citizens a county that strives for million dooll Sports complexes over residents pressing demands in activities of daily living are we a county that's going to destroy its natural environment resources from money and disregard the quality of life for current County residences is this what we the electorate want people are hurting in valua County their rents are high their salaries are not we have school children many many who are homeless living in cars Bia County homeowners are still dealing with the effects of flooding in and around their homes that never flooded before please please please redirect your eyes away from overdevelopment and turn back toward the people who elected you to provide a saal community part of that word is Unity for all who live in valicia County I thank you thank you Michael Powers followed by John Nicholson followed by Mike panagio good evening um Mike Powers unincorporated oron Beach um just a high level observation on this issue um I understand the five-year agreement between the county and firststep has expired however in the course of five years A lot can change and in this case specifically HB 1365 my understanding is the onus falls on the county to find a place to locate those in violation of this bill in fact I believe the county can be sued if they're if um if it's in violation I don't know maybe legal has more information on that or maybe that's what they were actually talking about um the county already made an investment in firststep shelter um and to me it seems like now is the time to see a return on that investment by continuing to support the shelter jail should not be an option thank you I'll come back to to legal counsel uh John Nicholson johnon DET Tona beach side it doesn't seem that there really is an issue you really cannot not support firststep shelter I understand there's been some um problems they've not gone away the questions have not been answered and I know Matt would like to to solve it but you guys have dropped the ball on your fiduciary uh obligations you gave a great deal of money to this you've not followed up you haven't made sure that those facts that were given are actual facts that the money is going actually where it's going it is your obligation to do that because you don't realize the firststep shelter now covers about 70% of the county all of the East all of the unincorporated and the land that's a huge amount of population they rely on that shelter especially the outside to be poent or compliant that's why they joined it covers literally their but and you would be denying all the what is it 11 cities now in the county that coverage that they desperately need you know that I've hit you dozens of times about Daytona Beach being an economic engine and how devastating it was when there were 96 people sleeping on the boardwalk permanently there were over 100 people in Breakers Park Living permanently we almost had our major event leave the Ocean Center because of the homeless with the shelter all that's gone we will never not have the homeless I guess it's illegal for me to say it but somebody once said you will always have the poor you will always have people that are poor you will always have people that are mentally ill that will not go to a shelter they will be on your street there's nothing you can do about it but those that you can save it is your obligation to save them even save them from themselves so you because the shelter is saving your money I talked to this to Jim Cameron 30 years ago when this first came up we were talking about eeko and evolution forever and he said you know we can save the county money by some of these people not going to the jail over and over and over again every time it keeps somebody from the jail it saves the county money and if you're going to use this facility you like all the other cities should pay into it thank you thank you before I call um Mike up uh Victoria was next you've already come up would you like to okay back s in front the mirror thank you firststep shelter doesn't just shelter people we help them get health insurance so our hospitals no longer have to foot the bill we help them find jobs we help the elderly or those with disabilities obtain disability or social security income we've helped 122 veterans we've housed 822 people in 5 years when someone successfully leaves us they pay their own way in society we have also helped hundreds of individuals who fight addictions to become productive members of our community they begin paying taxes rather than using tax dollars when our clients go into recovery their lives are transformed which reduces costs related to law enforcement incarceration and the court system we work hard to keep our costs low we have only 10 full-time and four part-time staff to run a 247 7-Day a week facility filled with 100 people with challenge ing conditions and situations last year we brought in over $70,000 in food donations and $14,000 in items like shoes toiletries and undergarments the central Florida Commission on homelessness studied the cost of chronically homeless individuals using public services in Central Florida and found that the cost for inpatient hospitalizations emergency room fees incarceration and other systems associated with homelessness is nearly 42 $2,000 per person per year our shelter program costs are less than 2,800 per person per year the return on investment to the community is extraordinary last year we saw a 67% increase in the number of people daily at the shelter we are currently at our maximum capacity in addition to a 29% increase in people who have been brought to the rosan toror safe Zone over 2024 The Strain has put on our staff is not sustainable and without county Support we will not be able to continue at full capacity we've been faithful stewards of the funds we've been provided by the county over five years 822 people have graduated from our program and 94% who've been in housing at least two years are still there and in the process we've helped them learn to Value themselves by becoming valuable to others they are worth your investment and we believe that firststep shelter is worth your investment thank you very much Mike panagio followed by Ann Ruby good evening Mike panagio Port Orange that's a pleasure to be here tonight great group of people very passionate about first shelter I think there was total of 10 items and I haven't heard anyone come up and voice an opinion except for on the first step shelter now you've heard a lot of Statistics we've got them here and I think that I've played a big part in the success of firstep shelter but then again so have so many other people Halifax Health and Advent Health all our other partners the different cities that have come on board some great great people on our board great staff members you know I'm a business person and let me tell you how I got involved with firststep shelter because it wasn't something that I wanted to go out of my way I had no experience all of a sudden Mike panagio is going to go ahead and be on the board of directors of a shelter no way no way I have a lot of other things to do but at the time in 2016 2017 I was a member one of the members of the CEO Alliance and there was a terrible homeless situation back then as Karen mentioned and so because it was affecting the holy NASCAR you know ball of wax there the CEO Alliance decided we're going to do something about this we're going to get out some Band-Aids and we're going to put some Band-Aids on this problem and guess what I think we gave 145,000 one year and about 175,000 the next year what did we do we enabled homelessness and so they wanted to do it the next year and I said no way I'm out I said this is ridiculous we're not doing anything we're not helping so so when the homeless shelter First Step shelter was birthed they said well we got our perfect person to represent the CEO Alliance Mike panagio Big Mouth panagio he's complained enough so we'll put him on the board well when I get into something I do it right and we've been running that shelter like a real business and that business is performing and it is critical very critical to this community and I know all of you see that and in my last 10 seconds all I've got to say is that do the right thing you all fathers and and business people and homeowners do the right thing and that is support the shelter thank you and Ruby and you will be followed by um Rose and toritori and Ruby 137 Park Avenue in Daytona Beach I support the mission of the firststep shelter wholeheartedly I really do it's an important piece just but what just one piece of helping our homeless individuals however since the Whistleblower complaints have come in I've been very distressed about the operation of the shelter and the lack of oversight from the board please do not allow the concerns raised by the whistleblowers to be dismissed out of hand they're not scam artists it wasn't a failed coup and they weren't simply lazy disinterested employees they cared about the shelter deeply their complaints should be taken seriously since they did raise concerns about the reporting and operations of the shelter the board has failed to take them seriously in my view my EXP experience was when I started asking about the QR code funding I was told that information wasn't available we didn't pay for that reporting as a customer I posed as a customer called kindful and said what kind of reporting do you do oh they have robust reporting reporting then I was told well we don't know how to do it and and learning how to do it would take away from the operation of the shelter later I learned that the reports are coming in every week anyhow so it didn't it didn't make any sense but whistleblower A's report a complaint alleges that no money had been raised by the QR code program and when I went around finding donating through the QR code program the complaint alleges that they were instructed to make deposits so that the final number would be $874 and5 which is what was reported to me the entire success of this shelter is being built on numbers being reported that may not be trustworthy there are some very touching success stories but there are others who have less Rosy stories to tell I am extremely grateful for every success story they have I really am but the need for the variety of services for homeless people goes Way Beyond what local governments can provide afford to address that's why it's so important to make sure uh oh our limited resources are used judiciously it hurts me to ask but please do not approve this funding for the full term give the board a notice six months to get their act together and provide a thorough investigation independent review of case management and operations the physical plant and the current state of former residents I'm asking that you protect the vulnerable residents of the shelter and the taxpayers with the power of the purse it can only such an investigation can only improve the services offered thank you thank you Roseanne tornator I I have to I started my life out very poor okay no hot water no bathtub no shower all my life I started my little store with 3,00 ,000 and everybody made fun of me then I got asked to be on the board of the first step shelter and it gave me my heart to give it back to my parents who had hot water and a shower the last 10 years of their life I love the shelter we the $400,000 doesn't even begin to help R run the shelter electric bill 20 $5,000 a year employees $6 $700,000 a year we don't even own the buildings but we take good care of it when I got on the shelter I realized we weren't pottinger compliant so I took a hundred from my business and 150 from Roseanne toror and I built the safe Zone and loving memory of my parents there will always I have 15 employees we have 14 employees at the shelter there will always be difficulties with certain employees they don't always love me every day at my store some days they really don't like me but and you'll always have people that will say things that are really not true if they're not really knowing what's going on and when you're in a lawsuit as you know you cannot respond to certain people that say things that are not true I just want you to remember that and thank you for your time thank you that's the end of uh public comment uh Vice chair Matt rart thank you chair um one of the very first places U I visited I think I was even just campaigning was a firststep shelter and I was impressed with the operation back then and I'm still impressed so um we see a homeless issue there being in Daytona Beach the mayor and I can agree I mean not just there it's everywhere and it's no one more area uh our population's more so you're going to see more homeless uh if you're out more you're going to see more homeless we tried to make the efforts to um stop the pan handling and that was kind of stopped um I want to see it succeed um I I'm actually and and I don't know where everybody else cuz I haven't heard anybody else talk yet really ask a few questions I'm in favor of helping them out and I'm just going on the record as that um how we get there I don't know I don't know what that answer is I don't know how much but I I'd like to be able to find a way uh to be able to help him out and because I I do think we do have a responsibility um true the legal question was asked and answered I get it um I truly get it um so it's it's not doing it for that reason it's because it's the right thing to do it's not partisan it's because it's the right thing to do and that's all thank you before we go on can can one of the attorneys address the legal question that's been asked or stated not asked but good evening Morgan Swank assistant County attorney um House Bill 1365 um it does allow the county to uh open an outdoor shelter it does not require one in fact the Florida Department of Children and Families which is the one that will be providing certification if any of these are asked by municipalities or the county uh they're frequently asked questions on their website specifically states that um the uh counties are not required to designate a property for public camping or sleeping so it is not a requirement under the new bill or the associated uh Florida statute how are we compliant with Pinger um this Pinger was initially a Miami uh case it was an agreement um between the city to to come into compliance to make these offers um it actually is no longer in effect um because they did come into compliance and additionally with the uh Supreme Court decision that allows uh municipalities States uh cities to all make their own decisions on what works for their area there is no requirement um that a shelter be provided um if someone is uh engaging in public uh camp camping or sleeping okay thank you very much I appreciate that councilman Danny Robbins thanks Sher um Matt not to uh I don't want to cut you short but it sound like you you want to make a motion for discussion that way we can I do like I'd like to make a motion to find a way to to be able to continue to uh help the first step shelter so we can at least have the discussion second discussion on the motion uh yes were you done D you just wanted a motion on the table I just want to go through process correctly if we're going to go into discussion we need a motion on the floor I apologize I went into discussion prior to okay the the motion on the floor is pretty is pretty wide open that we find a way to help no that's why I was going to comment specific amount or the motion's really uh not to be anything the motion isn't really nothing doesn't really solve anything um yeah there's a request for a for a dollar amount yeah so um I think we just need to have that conversation and then make the motion BAS on that conversation I would prefer that yes that's why I wanted to jump in because I don't know if the motion really accomplishes anything I know you want to accomplish something don't get me wrong I do let's get I just don't know what that amount would be let's get in it okay would you like a motion for discussion in other words no okay rules here because so it doesn't get off give us a motion for uh discussion with a number I can help pleas thank you thank you um to the so if you're looking at these Grant funds in front of you which we have not allocated from the general fund these are funds that we have coming in the door we would trying to find here on their list of the money that's given by each so if we so you have $165,000 request from the safe haven as our safe place as well with these funds so if you did my calculator just run away you have 165 so you have 180 would be the remainder of these federal and state Grant funds that you could provide that would still make you the second largest contributor to First Step let's just talk about First Step first because that's what so what is the request for First Step 400,000 over five years $2 million 400,000 over five years that's the request on the that were asked um do you have a motion on that or would you like to hear some discussion motion to approve the funding uh as presented and uh open up for discussion second okay there's a motion on the floor to approve the $400,000 uh by uh Danny Robbins and a second by uh Vice chair Matt Reinhardt um for discussion um I'll start off uh I chair I still had okay um everybody would we vote on the motion oh pardon me did we vote on the motion no we don't vote on the motion till we have a discussion oh okay all right um getting into it here uh folks Council the public uh if we look at this it's just not a quality of life issue just for uh the folks that were uh intending to help but it's actually a quality of life uh issue for each and every one of us um in in Valia County County uh when we talk about quality life it it encom encompasses a lot of a lot of things and if you look at our economic driver and where we invest our money um it increases property values downtown on our beach side on our Boardwalk on our beaches in our parking lots with our part you know in apartments you you name it our tourist areas heads and beds um more people possibly uh supporting our beaches and our business businesses reduces crimes of opportunity right uh car breaks in our paid parking lots which we just had uh which we just approved uh burglaries trespassing helps with sleeping in public helps with parking issues where you see homeless sleeping in vehicles taking up business parking lots on our beach ramps uh on our beach approaches serves us with public health issues uh or it helps clear up public health issues um the burden on law enforcement will have increased calls for service higher Demand on law enforcement taking them off of of priority calls um I see a value in all that as much as I I shouldn't say don't want to take money from the general fund if you add up all these other things a lot has changed in five years I understand all my colleagues stance and really it's my stance as well but when you take all this stuff into consideration if you just look at the the funding needed to hire one officer or one Deputy you're looking at several $1,000 for the year when you have equipment vehicle insurance uniforms health insurance I mean you name it the list goes on That's not including the the the burdens that sometimes that our public and our businesses have to deal with um my thought process right now is if we don't support it are we going to be going backwards in this community look how long it's taken Beach Street to turn around I've seen all this stuff firsthand and I know where it can go I know where it's been um and this is a regional issue this is a state issue a a much larger issue but I know firsthand of where we were and where we are and I can firsthand say that because of the firststep shelter and some of these other programs we are better not just better but much better than where we were 20 years ago 10 years ago or 5 years ago and to me we're going to be paying for this a lot more we it's a catch22 situation somehow in my opinion whether general fund or not I'd much rather it not be but this is good money spent when you start thinking about all the other effects that could possibly happen um for whatever it's worth thank you thank you the the goal of the county that we had have previously set as Brad said was to to uh develop capacity and increase capacity and the county has done that um all along what we can't do is develop capacity and then also um maintain everything that that is established and and support it with operations um we we could we'll have to take money from somewhere else um we we have done the right thing and we have not abandon the homeless we won't abandon the homeless everybody here has uh in one way or another voiced a commitment to help the the the question for me is how much help we've given Millions we gave Millions to establish it with the very clear um idea that that's that was our role to help uh increase capacity to get it established and then we went beyond that for operation and then we've gone beyond that again and I'll point out that through much of that through the millions of dollars that we gave the uh shelter operated far under capacity I don't even think you're at capacity now maybe you're bumping close to it but for most of your years you were far under capacity and now you are asking us to provide another $400,000 more millions in the next few years um I don't think that that council is our um is our role in this if we're going to to continue to develop uh an increased capacity I would be willing to um do a a a far less number if this is voted down um I would and and here's why I think that I I asked County staff it was asked tonight how many people is unincorporated valua sending to the shelter they don't know nobody knows there was even confusion tonight are we sending people from Delona and DeBry um if they can't tell us how many people that Valia county is sending to the shelter how in the world do we figure out what our fair share is so I would I would do a far smaller number and I would also say that I'm not willing to contribute more to firststep shelter until they get a new director um Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um Mr Robins thank you very much for pointing out all the other things that it could lead to financially and what it already cost us and one of the things it was brought up about um the jail everybody knows my familiarity with the jail and if they're not going to take them to the firststep shelter they're going to go to jail and we're sitting here at least my focus is and my f Focus will be for four years on how to reduce the recidivism rate in the jails all that's going to do is contribute to it it's going to go completely in the opposite direction um so that was one of the things I want to point out before I missed on that opportunity um I think as far as obtaining the information from the cities of Deber and Deltona I think that's an easy fix I think that we could make a contingent on that is that we find out where those individuals that's a question that that's a verification of of where uh from the deputy that brings them in where was this from you know I think the sheriff would accommodate that it doesn't it's not like we we required that information on a on a arrest affidavit so the same thing there has to be some paperwork accompanying that individual some sort of report that's written from the Sheriff's Office on where they ascertained that individual from and that they delivered them to the firststep shelter so that's easy I think a copy of that if that's if that's an issue cuz I agree I think that there are some and I said that I think there are some that are coming from there um so respectfully I disagree um so I think that we have a we need to continue but i' I'd like to hear what my other colleagues have to say as well I'm going to still stay with the um Mr Robins original motion thank you councilman Troy K thank you chairman you know looking at the history here the county of Valia invested significant dollars which by the way is every taxpayer in vucha County the startup capital of $2.5 million and then came back with another 400,000 a year for five years for an additional $2 million so the the County's portion out of the general fund $4.5 million and staff came back to us tonight with some options that don't tap into the general fund for those that are um publicly already saying they're going to support it and I may but for those that are publicly have already said that they're going to support this making motions and seconds with the same amount I just need some help to get there so we didn't budget for this so either tell me how where you're going to find $2 million over five years or where you're going to find $400,000 for at least this year and then I could vote on it on a yearly basis if you only had a plan for one year but to just put this on staff and say hey George uh find 2 million bucks that we didn't budget we didn't do that so now that the budget's done we've gone through that whole process it's up to you you go ahead and find it and uh and by the way make sure no other services get cut because that's what I want to hear I want to hear what they're going to cut because last I checked there's not much meat hanging off of that bone so I just need some help gentlemen to get there and then I can get there with you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair uh appreciate everybody's comments um you know I've come to the conclusion that I I think few minutes ago this is a Economic Development question also for me not only the uh The Human Side to it right I mean it's all been said I want to acknowledge that but at the same time it has an economic development benefit to it some of the information has been shared on how the Improvement uh specifically I think some examples were on the east side um are they they they they hit home with me I've said it several times in here the East Side specifically Daytona Beach is our economic engine for Val County we've invested the most money as a County uh in things uh infrastructure and entertainment and various uh things over the years in that area so it's important to us um Danny I think the feedback you gave you're in that area all the time you have history in that area I think that that's very important to me to to uh validate that position you know I I visited a city I was going to say the name of the city but I won't uh it was it was in another state but I sitting here I recalled that it's a pretty nice city very a lot of people know the name of it but I remember visiting there on a work trip and my first uh opportunity there was during the day and I said okay this is a nice city very nice I'd like to come back here with my wife uh for maybe a a short vacation and then the evening came and the homelessness I had to walk around people on the sidewalk that was just there was a lot of drug problems in there um it was disgusting and guess what I said I'll never go back to that City so you know I've lived here 35 years and you know I've been to Daytona in the east side died a few times but I'm not a regular so I can't really speak from experience but I've seen things but not enough to be an expert in it but I do know that if folks saying that this was a problem in the past and it's gotten better since the Inception of this I see that as an economic benefit for the entire County so at the same time I think the real reality is we're a governing body too so we have to play a part in it we should play a part in it um and I think other cities should play a part in I think my city where I live should play A Part in it and I'll do my part to to to Lobby uh those elected officials to say why aren't you playing a part in it because certainly some of the people from my city are going there too and they should participate um so you know I think the question was $400,000 a year I think that's what we need now I will also say this I think the criticism is fair to say why aren't we more aggressive and maybe and I don't know all the answers I heard some stuff but I think we need to be more aggressive in the finding other sources of income um if particularly the cities and other venues partnering with Brad and his team to see how we can get other sources of income to help offset this I think that's an important piece but I think the first year if we do support the 400,000 which I would we only need to find 220,000 because I think Brad in your number you said there was 180 already in cdbg correct sorry Mr chair I asked a question but as part of the council's goal is is to find Solutions and so this was a stop Gap measure using some Grant funds that will become available to us it's not an in perpetuity I got it yeah I got that that's just this first year um and so council members I we got to we have to participate in this um I think the benefits are certainly there economically on many levels like Danny outlined um and uh we should be good partners here and but at the same time I think we need to be tough partners and when I'll leave with this Mr chair there's questions regarding data um I I would like to change that motion or modify that motion with requiring data that includes um location of where people reside that they're coming to but that data I think needs to come July of every year the reason for July of every year because we vote on our budget in September so in July you make your case right this is what it is this is how we're doing and then it helps the council better understand um unless after things they needed earlier I I'll I'll refer to that but I think July is sufficient for us uh to make a decision based on our budget vote that will happen in September so that dat is important um and then U we can get some more information to make better decisions so I support it thank you Mr chair celil and Johansson couple items um some of it's triage for the future but um I know most of the board members I I wish we uh we had taken the time maybe two or 3 years ago to to get together and and realize that we were not going to win ourself off this $400,000 and come up with a plan I know there's a bunch of smart people Mike Rosanne you guys run businesses you know how to come up with four $400,000 given enough time um in my opinion Victoria's too busy trying to run a run a uh a program to come begging for money all the time so no matter what happens I I think we all probably need to meet up and and discuss a way to do this I I do um fall into the David Santiago category that that this is a u this is a good idea uh mayor Henry I think it's a great idea I know you use it a lot you being the city of Daytona um I'm I'm a little concerned that we don't put a lot of pressure on our nonparticipating cities unless they can prove to us that they don't have any homeless uh that they provide um I think uh I talked to Victoria a while ago about that about trying to put some pressure on on the uh on the cities who by the way the last time I talked to them a long time ago they said well the sheriff takes care of that so now the sheriff not that he ever did the sheriff took care of it through our budget is what happened and and and I'm not saying that doesn't happen now but um uh I would like to see the cities who don't have their own police departments um Pitch in some money as well to offset the cost of the county um and then and then in that conversation with some of the some of the board members or all the board members is has come up with a Sundown plan if we can um uh 400 200 100 done something of that nature uh we talk about Sundown plans all the time I don't like cutting people Cold Turkey um this is a little a little bit different because this cold turkey was coming 5 years ago um based on the contract so but but I want to get them there but as with most other programs I want to wean people off of uh grant money where we can and be able to provide it that the people who need it the most so uh those those are my comments thank you chman councilman Robbins thank you chair chissa are you able to put up where it says December 19th through December 2024 those stats I just gave you Council if you if I could draw your attention uh Chris if you can slide up just a little bit it'll give you the total numbers there why this wasn't in this report I I do not know um but let's take a look at it together you'll see in 2020 20 21 22 23 and going into 24 the data for the different uh law enforcement agencies and and authorities that that handle this sort of stuff and you'll see of no to no fault of their own because of state laws and things that have just trickled down to local government you'll see the numbers rise because indeed they're handcuffed in a lot of areas um out of their control which is obviously leading leading to them to to utilize this service um you'll see that vucha county is a big uh one of the I'd say second largest user um of this service uh next to Daytona and several others um so you know I i' I'd like to really consider this consider the economic value of it uh Mr Kent has a a great point there um where where I'd be able to modify my um modify my motion to um look for funding sources I know we have that subsistence fee program I I don't know if uh um if if any of that money is available that's 350,000 a year roughly um something to to try to maybe piece meal this together uh guys but um the numbers don't lie I think it'd be hard to ignore uh so um DAV let's see if we can put our head together on this I I think I think that 400,000 is achievable um we just got to give staff direction to see what what's available and either what can we cut or what revenues we have coming in that we can make it work George is that how how we looking on those subsistance fees for this year or projected fees and and is there any available well they go to run the jail I mean uh they're I don't know the exact number but they're just a small fraction of what uh what it takes to run the jail so and to Matt's point they're also restricted so we have to make sure where they could be used or how they could be used so I would point out on that chart as long as it's up the 77 is for V vcso that's the that's what we were talking about before that that number includes the cities of Deltona and DeBerry so we don't really know the breakout and it's significant because depending on where we do go with funding uh I have to it would be good for me to know because we have you know is it coming out of the MSD is it would be coming out of general fund or some other one-time possible source that we could we could try to identify like Brad's uh done with a cdgb so that's all I got for now where where did this chart come from this first step okay first step has a monthly report and that's where this this data comes from and that's what I would ask Council if you you know decide to support first step is that we renegotiate the deal and have some common terms so we understand what's being reported as well okay here's a again I I'm I'm not against helping the homeless quite the contrary I'm not against firststep shelter I want to put our money where it's going to get the most benefit and I I see two big red flags here the the first one is they're asking for $400,000 a year and when I asked in staff well let's pay our proportionate fair share how many people uh are coming from unincorp corpor in valua um they couldn't answer the question because they hadn't been given those numbers I said those numbers aren't available so now we see valuch County Sheriff's Office so some of that's from from unincorporated some of it from De I think we talked specifically about that number I mean that is the number when we talked to you that was that number but specifically how much just from unincorporated volu that's what we can't determine that's the part that's what I'm saying to me that's a red flag it is asking us to pay our proportionate fair share I want to know what that is what is the proportion what's a percentage it's that's just a a red flag and it's also a red flag to me that I don't think we should just ignore the whistleblowers um there's whistleblower laws for a reason and I think there's some serious uh issues that have brought forward and I I think they need to be dealt with and I don't want to just ignore them so that's that's my hesitation in giving the the full $400,000 um even for one year um uh councilman Dempsey I pass come back councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair you know I I Mr chair I I don't think um well I speak for myself I'm not ignoring the whistleblowers um I think they play a part like like you said um I do believe that it's it's it's not our role though to make um Staffing decisions that's what they have a a governing board um to do that's how these things are set up um that being said what did open my thoughts to maybe a modification that maybe it can get more people on board is we're asked we're being asked to do a fiveyear right um I think uh Jake was talking along the these lines what if we approve today or modify the motion with a 4 3 22 um I'm saying hundreds of thousands right um I think the county should always play a part in it I'm convinced of that um and that's why I said 2 two the reason for four is because we're already into this right the reason for three is that it helps push and give incentive to go to those other cities uh and and make up that Gap uh on year two gives them a little over a year to go make up $100,000 we getting other cities and if something happens bad then maybe we can talk then but I'm giving a little incentive to push for the extra 100,000 by pushing those other cities and it reduces our amount to 2ou 200,000 so um I don't remember who made the motion I don't know if you be open to that 4322 um with the reporting that we suggested um as as a five year um I think it kind of splits the splits it in the middle almost but with support I'm I'm I'm with you but to to further gain consensus here on the council David um like I said in the beginning about uh comparing it to Nato everybody I I don't think I'm I'm wrong I don't think the Chairman's wrong in in getting that information and if it pans out but if it pans out that the county does do it and I do know they transport within the cities as well from pelican and from all over um but maybe getting us a little bit better number drill down on that um what would hurt if we just uh table this uh for it to come back and we get some more data you know and and we may get consensus I don't know uh I'm supportive of something but I don't know the exact number just just yet that's this is the whole problem so um I just wanted to open up for discussion I don't know if we're going to if I still have the floor Mr chair I don't know if we're going to be able to get that data and and the data that we need that I think we deserve in I I threw out there July uh because I think that has to be collected at time of in uh intake right like where you live right um not where who brought you here right so I don't know if we're going to get to that granular Point that's why I suggested it for July so that we make that decision um and maybe we don't throw the dollar amount I'm gonna back up for a second Maybe we're all over the place here George so sorry but maybe for the the July decision or the next budgetary decision we base it on that July report yeah I might ask uh if that you change that to the June June guys more time yeah a little B More Time Yeah by July you'll have a budget in your hands towards the end of it um but Danny I don't think they'll have the data as granular as we we would we would need it to make that decision because I agree with you that's the pressure campaign that we can put to the cities right um so maybe it is just a first year support and we determine from there but I think we need to make a decision today let's hear from uh your other colleagues and then we can Mr Robbins can decide if he wants to amend his motion or not uh don Dempsey are you ready yes if you all are ready okay yes um I uh recently observed a report from the Florida Office of program policy analysis and government accountability this was their December 24 report and the first thing they cited is this is going back to my position about the homeless sex offenders and what a problem we have now in Valia County um just a quote this is from you know the state after doing their research the transient offender population continues to present monitoring challenges and has grown since opa's last review approximately 7% of the registered sex offenders and 12% of sexual predators living in Florida communities are homeless or transient seven 7% of sex offenders 12% of predators are homeless or transient and the rates vary from County ranging from 0 to 34% the sheriff's offices that reported transient populations often site residents restrictions as contributing factors to the sex offender transience and this goes back to our meeting where we extended The Residency restriction from 1,000 feet to 1500 feet and my uh pitch against it because it was going to add to the homeless sex offender population well out of the 67 counties in one unaccounted County so apparently 68 in this study volucia ranks ninth okay our surrounding counties Marian County has zero transient sex offenders seal county has zero transient sex offenders Lake count I'm sorry Flagler County has eight transient sex offenders Lake County has 16 transient sex offenders and I've provided the listing of all 67 counties which is being shown on the on the screen and you can see for yourself Flagler Having Eight Lake County having 16 Marian zero I'm sorry good to page two please Marian has zero seal zero Valia County 61 homeless transient sex offenders living on our streets and this is what I was talking about I know there's the the new statutory change that came about but the problem is the city of the land is still practicing their old ordinance what they're doing is they're allowing these they're they're arresting homeless people who refuse to go to the firststep shelter or any shelter for that matter but if they're sex offenders none of the shelters will take them I'm not picking on First Step none of the shelters will take them and I understand why but nobody's taking them so to highlight your point Matt um you take them to the jail they get right back out where are they going to go they go to First parents the next morning they're right back on the streets they have nowhere to go and law enforcement has no place to find them so they're living the streets sleeping on our sidewalks so I would like to see a push to create some sort of shelter to house these people so we can get them off the street so we can match our neighboring counties and have zero TR transient homeless people sleeping on the streets and to help law enforcement keep track of them because that's what we talked about before when I was arguing against it was we got to track these people if they have a place to reside they can't move for more than three days or else it's a it's a felony with minimum mandatory sanctions but when they're transient they're unaccountable we need to provide a place to house these people so they cannot be unaccounted for in roaming our streets that they currently are we rank ninth in homeless sex offenders walking our streets here in vucha County we need to find some incentive where we're going to put them I'm not I'm not picking on First Step all I'm saying is this is a problem that we need to include in the conversation thank you guys how does that apply to the motion on the table well I mean I I wish somehow home I wish First Step would start accommodating because they do have security we don't have armed you know guards walking the streets of the land but they do have some type of security out of First Step so I would you know if we're going to table this to re-evaluate I wish that would become part of the conversation that maybe they would be willing to put a section of their place to house some of these homeless sex offenders Don those counties with zero and ones do you know if they have shelters that accept so we don't know if that's the real solution then yet well they under they have to have a place to go but I mean because I'm listening I'm sorry Mr chair but you you you gave examples of other counties that had zero and one but we don't know why they have zero and one we don't know if it's because they have a a a homeless shelter for predators and offenders well I know M Mr chairman uh point of order councilman I know it's coming it's a great subject has nothing to do with the item yeah has nothing to do with the funding of First Step shelter great subject though it's a conversation another conversation I think great yeah I think your point is if if we do table it that needs to come back that information yes sir that's the point of it okay David you're still up are you done yeah um I no I'll be up and just kind of close out the piece of the debate because it's kind of like it is part and not part of the conversation I I think it plays a small part yes but I would ask you Don um I think it's a worthy conversation on how we would solve it and I'd be willing to get engaged in it to find Solutions however I wouldn't hold First Step shelter punish I'm not suggesting you would I'm just when we get ready for vote don't punish them for it until we figure out a solution councilman Kent thanks chairman I um those in the audience I after four hours I have to stand up it just hurts sitting so long um so while I was standing I I saw some paperwork over there and I I asked the clerk what is this and uh she said that Dr bbau was at yours okay so I I see that there and I want to leave that up so the council can look at it and public can look at it kind of marinate with it just for a moment and while you're looking at that I I didn't say I'm a no to this um I may be a no for five years tonight at 400,000 I haven't heard anybody say um you're right we didn't budget for this and it's going to come out of general fund and I'm willing to take it out of uh what we give the jail you know I haven't heard that you know I haven't heard anybody come up with something and say this is where I would recommend we take this money out to put it here because this was not budgeted you know and um I've been I've been real cognizant that anything I've brought before this council is going to cost money um I've come with I've come with ideas to to create the dollars to make sure that it's it's there so looking at this and I think Mr Santiago said it all 16 cities should be participating and we either have eight or nine that do not participate and there's a few that jump out for me like first of all I want to applaud Daytona Beach Daytona Beach you know going to provide $400,000 same amount that they're asking that the county of vucha provide now I think the biggest benefit is to the city of Daytona Beach as well um but you know you look at what was requested and what these cities agreed to pay Daytona Beach Shores is one we probably should talk about you know 48,000 requested they're going to provide 20,000 it looks like look at Holly Hill Holly Hill was requested 21,000 and they're going to give 25,000 jump down to Port Orange 855 almost 86,000 requested they they they're going to give 35,000 when you look at the far right 0.07% everybody else is 15 17 21 24 13 this is the same city that with the school district just said we're not going to provide any more police officers in the schools we're just not going to do it and then the school district comes here it's like hey County solve our problem well what if every did what if every city did that you know so I'm not pointing fingers at certain cities like Port Orange and Daytona Beach Shores the fingers are already there because there's the data if this is indeed accurate I'm assuming it is Dr bbau quickly I've got a minute 55 provided by First Step okay data provided by First Step so like to me there's there's a couple things we need to solve in the year if we table this and bring it back to to provide funding for a year something a couple things we need to Pro we need to fix I agree the west side is benefiting from this and I also applaud the land for stepping up because they weren't partners and now they are we need to convince the best way that we can all 16 cities participate and the percentage needs to be the same on the far right if it's 13% 177% 21% it needs to be the same so that you don't have Port Orange given 07 hundreds of a percent and you've got others giving 1300s 2400s 1700s that that is a a rub that doesn't sit well with me and the only other thing I need to get on board tonight if we're going to vote any dollars tonight I just need someone to tell me the plan where they're going to get the money from and if the answer is I don't know that's okay I just want to hear you say I don't know and then I can say I can either get behind that or I can't but it's un unfair to staff to look at George and George you have got a problem here because if if we tell you to find the money how are you finding it there's the problem why why do we have a budget with an extra $2 million doll hanging in it and why are we not giving that back to our taxpayer put you in a bad position thank you thank you uh Danny Robbins you have 25 minutes left in the meeting no we're good I don't think it's going to take 25 minutes David I'd be willing to retract my motion if you have something to propose but we I think we need a little bit more data on this uh before we can go jump in head first but also too we got some very important data within the like the last 10 minutes this could have helped this conversation out if it was in the report I I don't I almost feel like I I wasted a couple hours trying to wrap my head around this it's a good initiative we all know it is we all know it helps it so we just got to figure out how we're going to fund it and all this could have been fast-tracked but I'm just curious Danny what's their budgeting timeline I don't know their budget cycle how this would affect them if we tabled it for what I don't know that's something staff maybe can can can answer or or you no no on a second ma'am staff do you know do you know when their budget cycle starts I I do not but uh during this conversation that I had with Dr falberg um I think that she has enough reserves to get her through if we delayed a month or so based on that conversation which was 900,000 in reserves so you are you pulling your entire motion or coming up with a different number or or David's 4322 I it looks like there's a lot that needs to be considered we can modify it to one year I wanted to have this discussion because I don't I don't have an answer for this I know we have to do it somehow I don't have the answer so I'm going to retract my motion for now okay and hopefully we can make a decision with something okay so right now there is no motion on the floor is there a motion Jake Johansson yes I make the motion for 43 22 two right five years I'll second that Jak Johansson makes the motion for a 43222 plan Mr chair uh to the motion provider would would your motion include the reporting information annually in June heck yes okay good the reporting and more of a breakdown over who's I like the who's spending what but more importantly I want to know who's using the services too are just as important okay uh you're done councilman Johansson are you done it councilman Santiago yeah um my my friend here is looking to see where we're going to get the money from and I think that question where do we direct it right what what direction do we give staff to the motion provider I mean I think we have the 180,000 that is available for this first year as a presented by staff from cdbg all right and um George is can we pull from reserves is this something that's reserves eligible yeah what I would ask is uh we could look at reserves let us go back and and you know it's always better we a little time to peruse through there may be some interest uh money um available onetime interest money from uh the covid money we had we'll take a look at that um so with a motion to approve it just as it is and you'll let us know where you pull the money from yep that would be great we the there also might be a few operational things if we're going to do that I if we could bring that back things like I want to make sure it's clear that uh it's used as a homeless shelter during hurricanes and other natural disasters get the conditions you need all right thank you we'll we'll we'll negotiate what other things we need the Motions please so then what what are we voting on 43222 going to staff and they'll come back and tell us if it'll work or not no staff will just tell us where they pull the funding from and he wants to make sure that it's used as a homeless shelter correct hurricanes hurri this really doesn't pass then until it comes back with with his funding options I don't know can we just give you guys a green light to pull it I think that's the question you're asking right can are we in proper posture just to vote it that way and let staff figure out the funding is that what you say Mr chair we could we bring back the contract well so whatever you decide this evening whatever your direction assuming it is to cont continue funding we're going to need to bring back to you a revised contract um and I'm not trying to undermine the motion at all but I just want to make sure that council's if you did decide to do it there's nothing magical about the five years it could be a one-year contribution two years three years it's up to council it just happened to be the prior agreement the one we're under now was a 5-year contract contct I'm hearing also um you got the level of funding and I know the the motion now is 43222 uh reporting requirement I've heard several of you also ask for additional things you can give that direction now if you continue or later but um there could be conditions to it which I think you've all realized cuz so of you have um mentioned those councilman troen thank you chairman pull that up again that you were showing us earlier if you don't mind please there is no doubt in my mind that homeless shelters benefit all of Luchia County not just the unincorporated not just Daytona Beach not just Orman Beach um you know interesting when I was looking at this because and I was very pleased to see it because I'm you know publicly I'll say it I'm I'm a big fan of councilman um skip over here you know he's he's he does a great job in Pon Inlet and Pon Inlet showed up to the party so you didn't just come up and talk but you voted as well with your community to do that and Council I'll I'll tell you I can be a yes on this tonight because I've got to have good answers for my as we all do but I'm just talking about about me for my constituents my constituents want this and I can be a yes on this tonight but not with a 5year 43 3 2 1 whatever remainder to the 14th power I can't do that I can do a onee $400,000 request pulling it out of our savings account and I'll publicly say I'm ringing the bell because I hate doing this I hate spending recurring money and and paying for it out of a savings account it's a horrible idea should not be done and then we can either get our act together and put it in our budget but one of the reasons I don't like doing The Five-Year Plan right now is we have eight Partners who aren't at the party and we have two of them who are not at the percentage that they should be at and I think if we just go with we're going to continue to fund it it enables them to continue to miss the party and they need to be there I'm going to repeat something and effective public speakers don't repeat themselves right Mr panagio they don't repeat themselves but this problem and these Solutions at these shelters affects all of uchia County no city is exempt I don't care if you're as small as Pearson or as large as Deltona the largest and one of the smallest I don't care it affects all of them and everyone should should show up to the party and participate so I'm a no on a five-year deal because I think I think by us talking about this it's going to get better just think if everybody's participating you've got eight or nine cities that aren't there but maybe because of this discussion we get them there so I'm a no on a multi-year but if that's the way this goes and the maker of the motion doesn't change anything that's okay I want you to know I'm with you I'm going to I'm going to do everything I can to support you and I would vote for 400,000 tonight out of the savings account and it's a bad idea but I think we're up against the clock and I think you need the money and I think it's the right thing for the residents of valuch County but I think that it will give staff some time because George already knows the answer you know and listen I I gave George the valuation and I was raving about him but he knows that we have interests coming in I me goodness gracious we have a $ 1.4 billion budget of course we have interest you know of course so Council that's that's where I am um right now thank you I I'm close to you um I'm not ready for a 43222 I'm ready I I would do one year um for all the reasons I stated but not at 400,000 so I what's your number that's let's say we have 10% let's say we have 20% of the population of the year so should we act like the behavior of Port Orange and Daytona Beach Shores or should we should we lead the way I'm I'm just asking I I don't think that is I don't think saying that we send 20% of the people there is acting like Port Orange I think they need to step up I think everybody needs to step up but we're being asked to carry the whole deal and you're willing to take money out of savings um to do it um I don't like it either councilman Dempsey oh okay I'm sorry yeah I agree with Troy um just so uh see I'm not against first step I think they're a wonderful organization uh since the land has signed on with them the downtown has gotten better it really has there is far less homeless people sleeping on the sidewalks than there used to be so hats off to you guys because it's helped significantly the only reason I highlighted that other issue because I do think the fact that we ranked ninth in the state in sex offender transients is something we have to address but not tonight but I think the one-ear idea we can't leave them in a pinch so I'm for funding something just for the one year until we can try and address other problems that need to be dealt with and I also agree the fact that we did this upfront commitment of 4 and a half million so that was originally intended to be kind of like that's all our stake in this and everything else is you know on other entities to kind of support it but I mean here we are and we have to make a decision so I'm up for the oneye commitment and I kind of lean with chair maybe maybe 400's a little bit too much but you know I don't even I have no there's a motion here let let's just take care of this and then re bring it up okay so I'm a no on the vote right now but for those reasons because let's let's okay call the rooll and find out I think we're going in circles yes Carissa would would you please call the role Troy k your name was still up and I was going to ask for some for some leniency this will be less than 20 seconds but Brad really quickly we didn't address any of the other like Halifax urban ministries Neighborhood Center those what about those are we not talking about those we're we're taking these one at a time one at a time goodness never mind Brad I heard it one at a time it's okay and we only have two tonight this one in safe place Chris would you call the role on First Step shelter funding Mr Dempsey five years four years no five years 43222 no Mr Dempsey no I said Noor I'm sorry Mr Mr Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Brower no but the uh motion carries um four to three M so okay we will return with a revised contract for you okay now safe place the request is sorry um yes the request for safe place is 165 I believe and um the executive director of the Flagler fucha Flagler County Coalition for the homeless is here if Council has any questions about this new shelter that they're standing up in Daytona Beach for seniors I got to Li for seniors which is the fastest growing segment of our population of homeless people okay the uh any questions for Brad it's $165,000 and this is not startup this is operating expenses it's startup operating expenses so they're not at capacity right now if they get this funding they'll be able to they'll be able to stand up basically be at capacity they have a significant waiting list who who else is contributing to operating there's multiple partners so I'll let Harry speak to that um there individuals providing support here here's my real question you can please come up I just want to know a lot of times if it's if it's uh you're asking for operating funds that means there's a problem you're not getting contributions there there's something wrong I just want to know if if there's any issues uh we we need homeless Shel this one is I think is is also really important so I'd like to find a way to to say yes to it well yes sir um we started safe place um out of a community need and in partnership with the um Council and aging for Valia County um we found that there was a um a gap in services for individuals that were 62 and over so we started it based on community need we did not have a funding source at all um we own owned the building um we partner with Council of Aging to provide um some specific Case Management Services geared for the needs of seniors and um also um there is a program fee so we contribute about um about 30% of the required need right now based on a population of 10 now we have 24 um single room occupancies available we just started small because we again didn't have a funding source so we wanted to um demonstrate that the program will work that we could um help to um keep seniors from falling into homelessness thank you very much think Harry's very humble he won't say that the 24 rooms were decorated and the furniture provided by 24 Community Partners Brown and Brown other organizations within the community that came together to basically provide furniture for the 24 rooms great so good Community Support yes all right thank you uh Santiago thank you thank you for what you're doing a growing population that needs more and more help move to approve Mr chair a motion to approve the 165,000 second the motion was by David Santiago second is by uh Vice chair Matt Reinhardt this is for one year one time yes sir the conversation that Harry and I had is you know these are cdbg funds came to you um the grant um let's let's develop some performance metrics as part of the the agreement and then we can talk once he shows me their performance thank you any other questions just if I could so would that requires to return with an agreement with this one for this one as well yes sir okay um I don't think I need to call the role all in favor say I I any opposed and that one carries 7 to zero um let's see we've got an hour and a few minutes yeah the cultural Community has been here all night um the rest of it is us and staff so anybody opposed to moving forward to item 12 go for it item 12 Brad thought he was getting away item 12 oh shoot he just went to the restroom we have two restrooms all right CH all right cultural Council I have a presentation for you so the background the document provides a sufficient background I think to the council what we've done is basically align the program with your requests which were to stimulate new cultural growth enhance existing programs and improve the Gres ability thank you to increase revenue and funding from other sources there are some staff recommendations I think that um you know the cultural council did some thoughtful work over the course of our time together and doing this but understanding uh an analysis of other programs across the state that you um directed us to do at the staff level we were still an outlier in some of the areas so we provided some alternative recommendations as well so what they have recommended is to go away from the the general Community cultural Grant and break it into three separate programs so the first program and this is to address the help those startups individuals new or small cultural organizations this is something that um council member Santiago had asked for how do we help these people get stood up on their feet and how do we um move them on to bigger and better things in their revenue stream so you can see here um what's being proposed uh it's a $8,000 with or without match and then how many applications so this is a decision point for Council do you want to have them uh max out after five years of applications or do you want them to max out after three years of applications do you want to have a $8,000 Max Grant Award with no match or 8,000 up to 8,000 with match do you want me to go through each of them and then we come back is there any questions at this point go ahead okay so the next is moving to a project-based support Grant so rather I will tell you my conversations that I've had after doing the analysis of the other programs across um the state is you know several of the individuals and counties that I had talked to called our funding status quo funding it's you know you're you're getting money based on your operating dollars that was by Design though I will be very transparent about the cultural Council who have educated me there are not a lot of Grants out there that provide straight up Operational Support to organizations and that's was unique and that was done purposely back when this program was established but understanding the direction from Council they have um developed another category called Project based support grants so this is you have to have a project you got to do something now full transparency this could be current projects like free Tuesday it's highly impactful it's successful things that have a proven track record um may be eligible or new things as well so the the funding model adopted um and recommended by the cultural Council keeps the old funding model in place so it's you're using operational dollars as a source of funding for a project so it's it doesn't match having that kind of um Operational Support as the impetus for a project based support grant program so our for our formula is there as you can see which is um 20% of the first 40,000 of their operational budget and 10% of all amounts over 40,000 what this does and I heard Council say this is what if you have a small But Mighty organization what if you have an organization with excellent volunteers who could get up to the 25 you know you you're Li you we are limiting them by using their operational so make it more competitive and so that's kind of what this does is if we do an up to 25,000 it makes it more competitive um so as you can see there kind of some decision points for Council on this do you want it to keep the max award the funding formula and the match so those are decision points we bring before you today and then the the the third is what they have talked about we've talked a lot about this in organizational capacity building how do we get the right people on the board how do we get the right person um who's employed by this cultural organization to un improve their entrepreneurial Acumen how do we improve their fundraising skills how do we get them to where they need to be and this is something that Council the cultural Council recommended you know up to 25,000 which um you know there's an alternative recommendation of 10,000 for one: one I hear you loud and clear you tell us all the time they better have skin in the game so that's why we have um provided the onetoone match because I think it's important to maintain these programs they do provide an economic development benefit to our County but I think sometimes the the the cultural Council was out of alignment with your thinking so cultural Council recommendations the council adopted a a per capita recommendation for funding I believe in 200 7 for of a $150 it was repealed a couple years later um what the cultural Council recommendation here is let's take a snapshot of what our population is today and if the population increases the funding would increase for Cultural Arts if the population decreases the PO the funding for Cultural Arts would decrease and then lastly was and I think this is a good suggestion and we're willing to do it as direct staff to develop a grant transparency and accountability dashboard they should also develop Collective measures what is the return on investment how many new people have attended events so all of this was in your packet um here to answer any questions I know the cultural Council um is here to defend their recommendations as well and we do need to make some decisions and I will go back to that first slide and these would be our first two decisions Max Grant award and restrictions okay let's start start with questions uhk David Santiago thank you Mr chair um couple just I think I have two questions but what we're going to be deciding here today is uh alternative recommendations cultural Council or whatever wherever we go correct those count based on that assuming that you're going to adopt their approach with these three programs correct yes yes we have options here right yes sir um can you go to the next slide maybe it's the next one there we go eligibility cultural organizations whose primary mission is arts and cultures and employees at least one permanent full-time employee there are organizations out there that have totally volunteers that's correct would would they not be eligible based on this recommendation they would not and what's the rationale behind that volunteers are transient and so this provides some um what this provides some based on my understand based on my my experience um we can certainly change it to volunteers I think Mr chair from my I I get that but I think at the end of the day is how good whatever the program is and how effective it is people come and go everywhere right um I wouldn't penalize a nonprofit that doesn't pay any employees that's got 100% volunteers and they got a great program that happens year after year I I would would not I don't like that just to the council we'll do that in discussion but um I want to make anybody that's doing something good of eligible I'm done for now Mr chair any other questions for Brad at this point okay well we don't have a motion on the table we do let's hear from the uh I want to hear let's hear from the public um I'll call you and in the order that we got your name Paul Richardson uh evening councelor my name is Paul Richardson of the land uh I want to be starting quick uh this is a really good plan uh I know you might want to change a few things based on recommendations uh that's okay but again I want to uh quote a longstanding tradition do not let the uh perfect be the enemy of the good this is a good plan I highly recommend it uh maybe we want to change that one to from per one Perman employee to but again let's improve it and I uh make changes as you see fit but I highly endorse this and I like to thank Dr uh bur ball for guiding us here at the cultural Council through this we had a great discussion great meetings and and this is hopefully what you guys look at and approve thank you Kathy Thompson Cathy Thompson Daytona Playhouse Daytona Beach first I want to apologize to every one of you for perhaps the tone um that I took in my email to you it was not professional and I am an advocate for civic civil discussion but I will not apologize for my passion and you know me well enough to know what I mean by that and I hope you will seriously consider many of the questions I asked in my email I won't go back over all those today I will ask you and you probably are not aware of how I feel and I'll only speak for myself but every time I'm here I feel like you are brating me and that I am bad and not a good business person and I am failing because we are not self-sufficient you hold that over our heads and I have looked through the country to try to find where there is self- sustaining models of arts groups and there aren't any gentlemen Arts requires the support of its Community the federal government the country if we lose the ability to get a grant from you I lose donors I have to be able to say to a donor that my County supports me and supports the organization or they don't give us money and that's why losing the state and then being threatened with losing you is extremely serious to us it isn't just the dollar amount it is what that represents to other donors what will happen slowly over time if you keep reducing this don't allow us to apply for Grants every year is we will just slowly die the quality will drop and you will see more organizations go out of business I will tell you the thing I learned most when I ran large marketing departments for City Bank was keeping an existing customer was a hell of a lot cheaper than getting a new one doing away with the organizations that currently apply for Grants the 32 to 34 and trying to replace them will cost you in the end far more money I am not against the seed money that would be wonderful Mr Santiago we do need to encourage new organizations to come up and the difference between us and businesses we Foster that the theaters all get together we share props and everything that we do we are not competitive in that sense We Believe The More arts there is the happier everybody is and the more successful we will all be but don't throw us out just trying to get new ones thank you thank you George papis good evening as you know I'm the chairman of the uh cultural Council and I kind of have a couple of procedural problems with this it may have been my being a lawyer you task gave us a task to find solutions to this we had a public meeting public meeting on November 13th crowded with people that we then took the recommendations we had then and then went to our regular meeting on the 15th with staff there and staff I believe was the public meeting also and we finally banged something out then we brought it to you um December I believe something like that and you seem to be fine with it then I don't see anything about this until this weekend this last weekend it didn't even come in an email to me to I believe after 5 o'clock on Friday and frankly I think you got my emails we didn't have any input into this now with the staff all of a sudden they're making the decision and we have no input at all and that to me what's the point of the cultural council is there some sort of disrespect for us here I agree I think there is or it feels that way we were given a task we did the task you seem to be okay with it all of a sudden Here Comes staff and changes things now I would propose I would like to see I like I love Dr burbar everybody Tim they're all great what I would hope is that we're allowed to meet with staff and hash out what we're talking about here and then come back with you with a proposal instead of more or less being blindsided and that's what I would hope we could do I hope you would go our initial proposal now real quick how long do I got real quick this matching of um this matching of small organizations for example on a what was it say ,000 yeah with one to one match well a small organization to match it would want $6500 would need $3200 matching money some of these small organizations haven't got that kind of money or they've got it in another program they have to drag it from the naval station for example African-American Museum there's all the the banto banto singers all these people do wonderful things in this in this County for the taxpayers at 25 cents per partial people this is not a rich County and a lot of a lot of these senior citizens don't have a bunch of money but you know what they can do they can they can go to the banto singers they can go to the museums and they don't have to pay as much money to get in and and and Congressman didn't I mean Congressman sorry I just gave you a raise big raise I just gave you a promotion I'm not sure if you want it though anyway councilman dimsey the you you're right it your comedy shop couldn't make money and you're an entrepreneur you're a smart guy I'm sorry thank you which shows that it's the government needs to support things thank you very much I'm sorry I took to time thank you Lloyd Bowers thank you Mr chair Lloyd Bowers 1424 North Halifax Daytona Beach um I almost think I should say what he said and then just sit down but what George had have espoused you is actually correct we met back in November we had a big public meeting here we took the heat for you that you all were getting in some of the prior meetings and we had a dialogue then we had an open meeting the following Friday at Art housee and reviewed all of this with staff and then we were through we presented our our recommendations then Friday just this past Friday January New Year we get this we were now I can't say we because I'm only speaking for myself we haven't had a meeting yet that's the whole problem we were not aware that uh staff was going to then come around and do alternate recommendations and bring those to you these should be evaluated if these are actually the recommendations by the cultural Council before they come to you if we don't why else do advisory boards exist we sit to advise you and if staff says this yes but no not this this yeah then give us the chance to respond we meet this Friday we could do it this Friday it's our first public meeting since and since uh the holidays and we could actually do that so what I'm going to ask you to do is please table this give the cultural Council a chance to evaluate the recommendations of staff and then report back to you in our advisory capacity thank you thank you Cameron vincon good evening County Council staff thank you for being here and allowing for me to speak my name is Cameron vinon 2193 Sherwood Drive South Daytona Florida executive director of art house foundation board member of the valua county cultural Alliance and I sit on The Advisory Board committee for the echo Gallery um I'd like to present to you figures for 2023 is um figures for the cultural Grant returnal investment I promise you guys I would give you a happy update every year when I came and I'm hoping the spring smiles and makes you proud of Legacy you're leaving behind 4,234 186 in free and discounted programming for vuia County residents Museum Gallery exhibits performances and educational programs that we provided for them free and reduced $3.6 million in household income via 490 administrative jobs $2.1 million in household income via 610 artistic and educational supplemental jobs $583,000 on average for local Municipal revenue from free programming this is all validated and cited and I would be happy to send these to you with our sources figured 1,486 669 in total local County government revenue that's 2.4 times cultural Grant investment you invest in not nonprofits you're not investing in US you're investing in free and reduced programming for our taxpayers that can't afford it for children going on field trips for those on fixed income unable to go to the beach every day but want to do something cultural with their lives 2% no I'm sorry 2% of the general budget is essentially what this grant is and yet our return on investment is over 1 .4 million this grant pays for itself and we are so happy and so blessed that you are leaving a legacy of your service here behind to invest in the cultural enrichment and programs of our taxpayers and our residents this is not a handout this is you actively providing enrichment for our citizens which is so needed in today's day and time our cultural Council appointed by you spent hours public meetings created your requested modifications to this grant process and have presented them to you however staff has decided or has been asked to supersede those publicly involved modifications utilizing staff recommendations over those of cultural Council experts in their field seems a bit irresponsible and I'm not trying to be insult insulting at all particularly when staff members in question lack fundamental knowledge of this grant program who at the November meeting stated falsehoods about the grant requirements um applicant responsibilities and the chart in which the grant was established please let our cultural council do what they're meant to do and what you appointed them to do thank you and have a good day Craig upper have you been here since 3:00 Craig well I was here and then I came back okay good evening council members Craig upper uh d man resident and I wear a number of hats as Jake Johansson reminded me earlier at the tip and Davidson award uh but this evening I come to you as the president for the vucha county cultural Alliance so just to kind of reiterate what you've heard this evening what is at stake here um of course citizens of all ages who benefit from free and reduced cost programming large Cuts in a governmental grant program such as this mean fewer concerts fewer exhibit exhibits and fewer historical events and activities like our organizations are very uniquely equipped to provide just across the street for example the Athens theater a very strong organization that could lose valuable funding that supports scholarships for underprivileged youth ASL interpreted shows audio description for the Blind and discounts for seniors I can promise you that the common phrase less is more will not be the case here for arts and culture in fuchia County it will in fact be that less is less programming less support less discounted tickets or participation dollars the cost will be higher under the staff's plan maximum awards for new project grants would drop by 70% and capacity building grants by 60 % meanwhile meanwhile higher matching requirements would stifle smaller organizations that you heard this evening who are trying to expand or innovate imagine being forced to cut an existing program just to cover the match for a new one these changes will not deliver the positive outcomes that you are seeking you also heard that local cultural groups are already providing more than3 or4 million in free programming each year and we employ over 500 full-time workers and generate $1.6 million in local and state tax revenue by undercutting cultural funding we lose far sorry we risk losing more than we save and I use the word we because we as a community should be in this public private partnership together so this evening I just ask you to please adopt the cultural council's original proposals or allow its members with more public input to refine them further thank you so much for your time and consideration thank you and that the end of the uh public participation on this item uh questions for Brad if I may I would I'd like to chair as I see my role as an advisement is role as well to give you the best advice each of these recommendations were discussed at our meeting and rejected outright by the cultural Council so it was not me making things up I asked about a matching program and they didn't want to do that you know each of these things that are alternatives this is not the first time they're hearing them we discussed all of these items correct we did okay well you just answered my question um and did we we did not well I'm sorry go ahead cuz more these were the staff recommendations when we started the conversation it it started the conversation and you and then it morphed you're not suggesting a reduction in the total money that's given just in the way that it's distributed correct the 600,000 has been budgeted right okay um are there any questions okay we do have uh comments we'll start with Vice chair Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um mine was a comment I I I respect that Brad thank you for bringing that information up um couple things um Miss Thompson I don't hold it against you I I love the playhouse um and Mr papis no disrespect not at all I'm not disrespecting um there are I I made it a point to visit many of those organizations um the art housee what you do is phenomenal I left there with what you do with those kids is phenomenal and the the playhouse you know we bought tickets there we've uh unfortunately due to illness we couldn't attend but we still bought the tickets we actually donated so um we feel very uh very good about the ROI what what's coming back to the community and thank you for providing those numbers I appreciate that um I actually liked what was brought from you after you were asked a question unfortunately I wasn't here during the meeting when when the cultural council issue came up uh we were away um so I didn't have a say in that um my apologies but uh I did like what you had to the table but I'd like to see what the rest of my colleagues would say before I go making a motion I was ready to make a motion until I heard that last bit of information thank you um yeah I I was hoping we would finalize this tonight I didn't I think it caught all of us off guard that they said they hadn't heard about this you said they have I actually like the cultural Council recommendations but I like it with all of the alternative recommendations I I think we should approve it with every one of those so um I I think you listen to the council and the goals that we set I'm I'm proud of our Arts Community I think they provide tremendous service to the public um I was hoping that this would allow um more participation from smaller upcoming organizations and so I'm sorry that it's it's um not been received that way but I like the work that you presented to us councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman uh I kind of feel somewhat similar um you know for me my my journey and I think I've had a conversation with a few of you on the on the Arts Council my journey over the last few years has been interesting around this subject and I've I've learned a lot and um where I started is not where I'm at today right um I I thought about sharing a story here I'll share it quickly um because part of that Journey uh early on and uh understanding the value of the cultural arts program in our County uh evolving I remember this only because of the location I was at um I was in Puerto Rico uh and there's a historic Cemetery if you've been to Puerto Rico right next to the Fort Moro and maybe I'll start singing a little bit little Mark Anthony right um but my wife and I were just touring the area and we said there's a historic cemetery and we just decided to walk through the cemetery and start seeing cuz it's very very nice right on the ocean and um I get a phone call from uh a big supporter of the Arts I'll just say that in vucha county and um I remember sitting down one of the benches and I probably spent about 45 minutes on the phone sitting on one of these benches with this individual and what was very helpful to me is a historical perspective of Arts in valua county and and how it affects communities so that was probably I spoke with many of you we all had an impact the one that I spoke with but this one really just hit home for me because we really this individual was very very effective um in what uh he explained to me that being said I'm kind of saddened a little bit that we don't have some type of a thing here um I'm hopeful depending what my colleagues say do we go through each one do we send them back to to work um I think what staff has done I want to send this message to the culture staff has done kind of sort of where we've guided them so I'm not upset with staff from the perspective of they're trying to stretch the dollar they're trying to come up with ideas to bring in new organizations so it's that creative um ideas that have come up based on our Direction um where we land we'll see I'll tell you I don't like the eligibility so if that's in there I'm a no make that very clear that's my position on one of the items um I think there's some I I I I was I'm hopeful that we could have gotten some information from some of the people that are in the ARs program saying what is like a deal breaker I mean I know it's our decision our policy that we make but what is like a the de nail to something that you all are trying to do or some of you are trying to do based on this policy so I without knowing that it's tough for me gentlemen I don't I support it we just got to figure out where to we we land I'll stop right there Mr chair councilman Dempsey um I had the the unique opportunity to go out uh this past week with my wife to celebrate our anniversary we don't get out much but thank you we made it but um so we went out downtown Delan and then caught the beetle show at the Athens and uh knowing this is coming up and so I walk we went down had a nice dinner the town was packed with people then we went to the Athens packed with people beautiful sold out event all four shows I believe were sold out and um and I remember catching myself walking out of there thinking man they're making a lot of money and then it hit me I used to get when I had the comedy club and I'd have three shows in a weekend and people would say man you're killing it you're making I lost so much money in that show lost my tail but I did it just for the betterment of the community I think I said at the last meeting that you guys transcribed I never thought to have the taxpayers subsidize my comedy club so maybe why should I ask the taxpayers to subsidize the Athens but I caught myself because this was the first time I was not the business owner who was losing money and just kicking in my own money just for the betterment of the community I came out thinking wow this is really helping the downtown this I mean we went to cred there were a lot of people there eating dinners walking around having a few drinks and then they go to the show everybody came out of the show and an incredible show came out all in a good mood I'm like wow this really does benefit the town and then when I caught myself thinking that as a guest as opposed to the owner thinking oh they're making them money no you guys are only open eight hours a week you had four shows two hour shows so you're only open eight hours basically the rest of the time your facility is dark and that's what I with the comedy club and I lost my tail even though it had the appearance of Manis thing's making a killing so I get that you guys are probably on a thin budget even though the appearance seems like you're just raking in the cash so I I do have an appreciation for it and I I just I respect what you guys do and there is a a benefit to at least the Delan community so I guess what I'm proposing is that we at least give the cultural Council the benefit of going back to the meeting and discussing this further trying to work out some sort of cohesive deal I have all the respect in the world for Mr Bowers Mr papis and Mr Richardson I don't have the benefit of knowing the rest of you guys but I'm sure you're equally uh as honorable so that's kind of where I am I just uh I do think there's a value to having these types of organizations in our community and I want to see them all stay However that can be thanks councilman Johansson thank you sir a quick question for Brad are the are the cultural Council meetings recorded yes got it I can find that on the website absolutely not not on the website but we can get to the recording okay please um you know one one of the things that that Loosely applies here that that I don't know if I have a concern yet about but I'll share it with you anyhow um we have we have the echo program and and Cultural Arts are are part of the echo program and and one of the things that I don't want us to get into is a a grant to increase your capacity with the echo program or a grant to make your building bigger or Grant to build buy another building and then have have an organization come back to us and say now we need more operating money because we got a bigger place or a better place or something um I haven't done any investigation on that it might just all be something I'm thinking that's not happening but but I don't want it to happen um and and I think the other thing I don't I don't see any problem with the with the uh uh with the cultural Council recommendations you you probably had a hard time meeting the needs of County Council because that's not the way you did business in the past and I appreciate your your ability to kind of Ratchet down and and take what we said and try to make it work for you all um and additionally I I think there was a a comment that nobody in the nation or nobody in the State uh uh makes money or or breaks even and then they need Federal not state but local money now um but but Brad tells us I'm hoping rightfully so that not too many people in Florida do Cultural Arts funding like we do either so you can't say this is how the state does it this is how the the other counties do it why aren't we doing it that way except except for this piece if you want to mimic other counties and and the way they do business I'm not opposed to giv grant money to culture um because I love it um but but I also believe that um for things like build it and you will come if things are that good people will come if things aren't that good or not run well um then then people won't come if people won't come I don't want to put County money to it so I I think we have oversight at the cultural counsel at the staff for stuff like that but that's the stuff I like to pay attention to and make sure that that for every dollar we're given it's going to the right place and I think I asked this last time uh a lot of the people that come up here with passion talk about all the kids they served does the fuchia county schools give a dime to all these kids they serve and and so not that I speak to the public but I heard they don't have money well we don't have money either uh it's it's a taxpayers dollar whether that dollar leaves your hand and goes to the county or the school board it's the same dollar if they either they can pay for it or we can pay for it why are we paying for it so I think back to Troy's original comment on uh a couple items ago I want to see more I want to see more people paying in to have have skin in this game and be part of our cultural success here in blushia County uh at least the people who who support the youth and whatnot um you know lastly in my 28 seconds um I come from a family of pay to play my kid played in the band he had to pay to play we played baseball we had to pay to play we had booster clubs everything was paid for by us because we wanted it we're asking people that don't want some of these things to pay so that's all I have thank you councilman Kent thanks chairman so don I don't I don't know that I subscribe to everything that that you're saying about the Athens theater because I haven't you know pulled back the curtain and looked at their books you know and I I don't know but and just from the audience you could shake your head yes or no but like are the actors paid okay so and and the um and the answer just for those listening online was was some and then like the Usher are they are they paid they're they volunteers I think organizations like like that have a lot of volunteers and and people that love the Arts and I just don't know how you can have four soldout shows and it not make money and I love that theater by the way I have not been back and this is a personal thing I got to get over it I know I do but when they sent that young lady in here she didn't beat me up but she beat you guys up publicly and I said not again you won't get my dollar I mean personal I was I was I was upset that that that happened I thought it was unprofessional it shouldn't have happened to you move beyond that I'll go back I love the venue and we've had great times there I need to go eat at some restaurants down here too so not that I should feel badly for staff but like staff just did what what we some of you asked them to do and came back with with these options that now it's like no we got to go back to the drawing board and um so obviously if this goes back I mean staff you're you're smart this is not um gonna set well with some of the members up here because they want to see some changes but for me when I looked at the staff report I said okay same amount of money that hasn't changed but I was like oh what are some of the big boys in town meaning the organizations not individuals going to say because they can't receive the same amount of money that they've been receiving every year it's the same amount in the pot of money but we were trying to allow others to feed at the trough a little bit longer because when the top three or four take the Lion Share of the money I thought that's what we were trying to do and now there's like been this seismic shift you know I don't know why um but I had a feeling there would be some concern from the big three or four and they're the ones that showed up tonight you know I don't I don't see I don't I don't see you know in the in the past you know when the idea of of the all of the funding the $611,000 going away you know they had a representative from almost every organization here so I'm okay with this going back if it's going to go back I'm okay with allowing smaller organizations an opportunity and if you want to allow the you know the ones that that get the Lion Share of the money to continue to have it I don't know I don't know how I feel about that but we'll talk about it it looks like thanks councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair um I looked through the list again and um I don't think we're that far apart when you really look at some of these items um I I I could land personally in between if that makes sense uh some of these items right um I've already said I didn't like the one individual one paid employee uh but it doesn't look like we have support to vote for this today um but I think the council I I well I'll speak for myself um there are some good thought processes in what staff put together um if we don't vote for this today I would encourage the parties to try to find a place in the middle the land all right because there are some of the things in here that staff recommended to do because that's the only way we can foster an environment for other entities to come in and get a share of the PI right so if we don't change those numbers there's no other pi to give out so we have to we have to go to the right I'll just say that uh in this because the way the chart is is spelled out so um Mr chair I will uh I move that we table this item I understand the committee is getting together this Friday and if staff can accommodate a meeting with them to discuss this and um with an urging to fulfill some of the county council's requests second table to a date certain or next next council meeting I think we need to put this be done I don't know is that possible staff we're loading you up tonight I guess understanding what is the request to come together in the middle kind of sort of where I'm saying yes thank you there's a song called Meet Me Halfway I won't sing it okay there's a motion on the floor to table this until the next County council meeting be what February the 5th say we're starting to get stacked up so uh I would like if possible the leeway to use both meetings in February to see which one I can fit it on that's fine okay fine with me on the motion is there a second U Don seconded I'm sorry I'm not sorry that you seconded it I'm sorry I didn't hear you any other questions comments com comments staff thank you I know it was a tough job for for for you guys to go through this and it's been two years in the making really is what it is so uh I want you to know I appreciate you all in favor of the motion to table to one of the two meetings in February say I I any opposed and the cultural Council recommendations are tabled until the two parties can get together and okay I think we can get through item 11 quickly say yes we can I do that okay Brad since you're up there we'll stay on thank you we stick we'll go back to item 11 uh revision to the path forward strategies for success 5-year plan so this is again where your staff had heard you last year when we adopted this that um you wanted to see some changes and we made those changes mostly verbiage um to the 5-year plan with the exception of the trust fund we have fund we uh requested that Florida housing develop a white paper for us to see what the options are in terms of developing a trust fund we've included that and it's up to the council if they'd like us to bring that back or just have it for informational purposes otherwise very minimal changes that align with your direction good thank you I hope it gets approved as presented um Mr chairman move to approve David Santiago Johansson we have a motion uh by David S Iago to approve was that a second Mr Johansson yes sir okay second by Jake Johansson and a question or comment no okay any questions any comments all in favor say I I any opposed and that is accepted 7 to zero okay that brings us to 13 we didn't miss any skip anything else did we no okay fiveyear Road program Tad casbeer County engineer along with uh Ben Bartlett it's his birthday so we're g to get this over with quick we got 19 minutes for our meeting's over 19 minutes I'm pretty sure I can beat that uh I know this committee or this Council hasn't sat through this before but it's uh very similar to the previous one uh we have discussed a lot of this uh in different meetings uh we're charged with basically three different types of road projects we have capacity projects where we add Lanes whether it's on a uh uh Road section or at an intersection uh we're just adding uh more capability for a road to uh to add cars uh we also have safety projects these are projects where we are uh not widening the road adding Lanes to it but it needs to be improved to meet to today's safety standard so uh we've got that in there as well and then last is resurfacing projects this has now been moved over to our Road and Bridge group we've talked about this several different times uh they've got a um system for evaluating which roads uh need uh work and they go ahead and Tackle those each and every year with a certain budget amount overall uh our road program is funded primarily by a combination of different uh fund sources uh local option gas tax uh pays for um large portion of our road program uh for uh road construction we earmark uh the new nickel and we collect approximately $6 million 6.2 this last year um and uh we pay uh for the road program with that portion of it we have a set loan that we're paying back for the extension of Williamson down to uh uh Pioneer Trail so that gets subtracted from the amount we have to use local option gas tax is nice because we can spend that anywhere in the county County uh we have impact fees that we collect per Zone and those have to be used in that zone so that's one of the ways they're different from local option gas tax these are collected when a new development or a building is constructed and adds capacity to our road network uh you can see each of the different zones on there Zone one is the Northeast zone two is the southeast zone three is the southwest and zone four is the Northwest and you can see the money that's collected in each of those zones uh obviously the sections that are have lot more development collect more than the others uh overall uh we did go ahead and identify the balances uh that we had at the end of fiscal year 2223 we're always a year behind we don't spend any of the money that we collect in Impact fees until the next fiscal year um overall so we're always a little bit behind in that total another funding source for us uh also develop or provided by development is the proportionate fair share funds that are collected if there's a uh development that creates a failing Road Network whether it's an intersection or a road segment they pay us to offset their share of the traffic that we'd be created if we were to widen that road network uh you approved quite a few of these agreements uh overall this gives you a little bit of a history of the amount we've collected uh over time uh this is not up to date because year-to date was uh uh when we originally proposed this to the uh public uh so this is pretty much back in September of last year so those numbers are a little bit out of date along those lines so what kind of money do we have available that hasn't already been budgeted for projects we already had in our five-year Road program uh you can see between the uh local option gas tax we've pretty much spent a majority of that we're left with about a million dollars uh that we can use anywhere in the county uh Zone one between the impact fee balance and proportionate fair share balance we've got $23 million uh with what we have budgeted in the system we're over that amount but we also know that this doesn't count last fiscal Year's funding or this next couple years fisal funding that budgeted amount is for the 25 26 year uh overall it includes things that are just starting design and construction uh overall uh you can see for example Zone 4 is the one where we have quite a bit of money available we've only budgeted 9.8 million a large part of that is one of the projects that we're going to be proposing uh on Orange Camp will eat up uh that balance and a little bit more overall just for uh everybody's edification is there in uh in Orange uh at the bottom but the cost of one mile of a two-lane of Road whether we're creating a new two-lane road or we're adding two lanes to an existing Road can take anywhere between five and10 million overall so you understand what we can do with the budget that we have from those Revenue sources uh our road program this is what uh our issues were prior to the last Road program the uh red and orange indicate that we've got roads that are near failing or just past failing and the black indicates projects that we were working on in our road program to tackle those particular issues from a capacity standpoint you can also see certain sections where we don't outline a red or orange section uh in Black those mean that uh we're doing a Safety project uh instead of a capacity project uh overall so those are the things we were tackling last time and uh this is the previously approved priority list um those are the projects that we started funding uh with the uh funds that we collected uh through our various sources these are the projects that are already in the system they're either in design or in construction uh if you have any questions about any of them in particular we can certainly go over that but just to save a little bit of time uh wasn't really planning on going through each one individually uh overall but we got them Broken Out by Zone uh the blue indicates that it's a capacity project uh if you see a number next to it uh so in this case dun Avenue extension from Tomoka Farms to LPGA is number three that was on the previous priority list that was the number on it overall so um orange indicates that it's a Safety project so we just put that in there to make it uh simpler to figure out whether it was a capacity or Safety project uh overall now there are certain projects that we are not recommending for this next priority list and some of the reasons for that are that uh either case of like LPGA we're turning that section of Road that's got a capacity problem over to the Department of Transportation it does not make sense for us to go spend money uh it's we'll let them spend all the money we like doing that uh you can also see that uh Kepler is on there for example um they're working on the roundabout there at 44 and Kepler uh it's the section of Kepler from the roundabout North to Minnesota indicates that it's got a capacity problem we're waiting to see what happens after the roundabout is put in to see if uh that road Network traffic cleans up a little bit so to speak uh we certainly wouldn't start anything until after they're done with their project at the earliest anyway uh we've got uh Timber Creek the road extension on there we got a developer uh much like uh some of our other projects that would be responsible for constructing that portion which is why we don't recommend it uh did skip over Saxon there's potentially work at the do's interchange there at Saxon so again it doesn't make sense for us to spend money on it until we see what uh what they're going to fix or create problems for us on so the projects that uh we are proposing to add to this year's priority list uh tamoka Farms Road the intersection there at Belleview and International Speedway you've actually seen this we've collected money specifically for this project but it was never specifically added to the five-year Road program so uh more as an administrative thing it's on here as a recommendation uh we also also uh recommend that uh Timber Creek which was previously widened from State Road 40 North to Peruvian way that that uh project be continued from Peruvian way up to Airport Road it was previously designed and uh was not constructed due to funding uh construction issues so we'd like to go ahead and recommend that that get done in this area um now uh this next project is actually an alignment study tamoka Farms Road uh currently terminates at uh LPGA and uh we think it makes sense for this road to continue on North it had actually previously been studied about 20 years ago but the council never adopted that alignment so what we'd like to do is go ahead resurrect that take a look at things compare it to what's been approved particularly with the Avalon uh project in that area and see if we can't uh identify an alignment what this allows us to do is work with the uh Avalon developers to make sure that the alignment for that road uh works best not just for their development but for our development opportunities our property owners to the south of that uh it certainly puts us in a better footing to uh to move forward and not not leave ourselves with uh Wetland properties that uh we want to develop along with those lines so uh Williamson from uh mateline down to Town West uh the section from mateline North to uh Bellevue State Road 400 was uh under the previous priority list we're working on that now this would take care of that last segment of Williamson and widen it from two to four lines does include the overpass uh over I95 and of all the ones that are recommended this is the most expensive because of that zone two down in the new SM Beach Edgewater area we're recommending uh Williamson the extension of Pioneer Trail down to State Road 44 in this case what we're recommending is the design of this portion of it uh we do know that this section will be uh rather expensive when it comes to construction uh we think that this section uh also makes sense as a potential reliever for any traffic in this area and so by getting the design this puts us in a good spot to potentially pursue Grant funds either at the state or federal level uh to help reduce traffic either on I95 or any of their facilities in the area um we also recommend uh along those same lines uh St Road 44 uh has a real problem uh between uh the interstate and uh the coast and uh on a Saturday or Sunday when it's good Beach weather we know that quite a few people are coming from Orlando and that section is miserable for the residents in that area so what we'd like to do is study uh a connection that would give the people that live south of State Road 44 an alternate route as opposed to having come up to State Road 44 if you're familiar with the area so I know Danny is almost all those roads you have to come north to 44 to go east or west and uh we'd like to give uh a good alternative for that 10th Street since we've been working to forlane that for years makes the uh best location for that it also uh put uh uh traffic access to uh new SMA Beach High School make that easier uh as well in zone three uh we've got a couple of projects that we'd recommend uh Lake Helen oin Road as one of the few capacity issues there's a section between uh Captain drive and Hall over onake Lake alenin where the truck traffic is going to or from uh the interstate and uh that particular area is gummed up during those uh rush hours we'd like to solve that we'd also like to take a look uh we finished Howland so it's time to start again and uh so we'd like to study and then move into potential design for the widening of Howland uh from the interstate East over to cin and Boulevard uh that section is already at a point where uh we're having problems safety problems we've got uh some sight distance issues uh that we'd like to resolve as well as the capacity problems through that section is one of the three access points to Delon on the west side because of the interstate there's only three ways to get into Deltona uh this being the northernmost it makes sense to go ahead and take a look at uh putting it in a better spot from a capacity standpoint in zone four we'd recommend uh as I mentioned earlier the orange Camp project this would relieve a lot of the congestion at the West End that's where a majority of the the uh the work would be this would actually be a dual purpose project that's not how it was initially intended but will accomplish that goal uh after the hurricane uh you may remember that uh the pond there at uh uh at the supermarket at Publix uh blew out uh that wasn't the only cause of flooding in that area but there was a lot of water there's a low spot in there with uh uh no room for that water to go and it flooded out several homes both on the North side and town homes on the South Side as a part of this project we and purchase those areas we need pond space for our Pro our project as well so it would serve a dual purpose for alleviating some of the fun uh flooding in that area unfortunately by buying homes but uh would still accomplish and relieve that burden from some of our citizens but also uh propos to study Kepler Road our the section there North from 44 from the roundabout all the way up to 92 uh there's quite a bit of uh sides roads where people are stopping and uh turning there's no turn Lanes in portion of that uh this road was clearly not intended to be a high-speed facility but it is basically that so studying different possibilities in that area make a lot of sense so those are the projects we'd identified we took uh took those we generated some estimated cost for them and then came up with a proposed prior list and then uh per our uh previous methodology we take this out to the public we go to each one of the four zones we present uh we talk to the citizens and and uh get their input which projects they like which projects are not on here that they'd like to see and then uh we generate a recommended list that uh combines their information or their desires with ours uh the one difference between this time and the last time is not only did we go out to the public and and uh meet with people uh we also had our uh uh public information group set up a website and go ahead and people had the ability to just get online if they weren't able to come to one of the meetings and and uh go ahead and vote on their projects uh overall this was the um tabulation specifically from those votes at the uh public meetings and online uh at the bottom you can see uh the number of votes per Zone and you can see for example Zone one uh uh won the number of votes they uh they clobbered everybody else um so obviously the top three projects came back Zone one so uh we did find that interesting so what we wanted to do as much as possible was to try to offset that balance a little bit we did go ahead and identify the top five per the voters of those particular zones and uh put those in there and then basically counted each one of those as an equal vote and they basically came up with a prata with uh a new public uh presentation of uh what their what their goals were uh we took a look at this and we came up with our own recommendation uh understanding like for example number two is Williamson as I mentioned that $23 million that is the largest uh cost on this and being able to accumulate that amount of money uh we did go ahead and move that down um we do think that uh in conversations with the dot we might be able to qualify for a grant on that particular project as well which is another reason we bumped it down a little bit just because it's ranked lower doesn't mean that we aren't potentially puring getting it taken care of it just if if we had a certain amount of money and it was a difference between number two and number six we'd give it to number two um I don't know that you'd recall but last time actually number six was the first one not on this list but on the previous list number six was actually the first one we had fully funded the section of Williamson South from uh Beville down to to mateline because we had some projects in that area uh that were providing proportionate fair share we had some arpa money it just made sense to go ahead and tackle that PR again number six didn't didn't matter so this was our recommended priority obviously you have uh have your own opinions we certainly you can certainly vote it in however you like to you can add projects you can take projects off uh at this point uh we'd ask for you to take a look at it make any recommendations and uh and vote preferably the top 10 priority list we still have two projects from the previous priority list that we have not uh started funding as yet so we still have other projects to do but this would at least tell us in the future um what your goals are in terms of uh road construction projects so all right um we have also a discussion on uh you want us to bring back specifically to this meeting a discussion on the uh uh middle Ed potentially $5 million for road projects overall I don't know how you'd prefer to do it Ben's got his PowerPoint and he's ready to go or we can talk about the priority list however you'd like to do it is there questions from Council on the priority list Mr chairman our meeting is ending in two minutes then I'll go faster now do do anybody have any quick questions we may have to extend the the meeting but Ju Just real quick you mentioned somewhere in the report 90 miles of dirt roads I don't see them anywhere are we we've been knocking those out little by little is are there any dirt roads on here no not not on this list we uh those are not considered capital projects so no we don't include those in our fiveyear road program we do have a program to pave dirt roads which is under our road and bridg grade correct we've been funding roughly $400,000 a year to Dirt Road reduction and Paving dirt roads and we've knocked that number down I think closer to 80 where we're at now we're we're planning on continuing that from where's that money come from gas tax okay um alignment studies is there a general cost to it looks like they were does it depend on the project I see a million two for one on Williamson or something yes it does depend on the project a large portion of this is uh investigating the different options so for example uh you know it's rather straightforward like smoka Farms Road the path is pretty well set there aren't a lot of places you can go you've got the interstate on the east side you've got tamoka River on the west side it's just how you're going to cut through some properties we also have the advantage of a prior study State Road 44 alternate road alignment there's quite a few different ways that road could go from 10th Street over to the West um so there's a lot more options to study that's why it's more expensive so yes we do base those on chairman do you have questions David Santiago I was going to move to adjourn there's a motion a second chairman I just say it's 10 o00 and I was going to make a motion to approve the recommended 10 that the staff has so if if you if if you'll remove yours David and I'll remove my motion to adjourn to we could take that vote um a motion to to approve the recommended priority top 10 list by the county that we see in front of us now second all in favor say I I any opposed have a good night Mr chair move to you have a motion to Johanson all in favor say I I I so we will we almost 100% almost made through it e e