Yeah. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Hey, hey,
hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey
hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 5 minutes. Hey,
hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Baby. Happy holiday. Hello. Hello. Yeah.
Do it. Everything. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in two minutes. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.
Okay. All right. Let's rock and roll. Okay. Welcome to the uh August 15th, 2025 Valuchia County Council meeting in just a a moment. We will start with an invocation and the pledge of allegiance.
You can um stand for those when we when we begin if you care to. The invocation is open to any faith group in Valuchia County. If you're a member of a faith group who would like to participate, just please send an email to K, the
letter K green.org, or and she will get you set up. Um, this morning it is my pleasure to welcome Rabbi Paul Faulk from Ariel Congregation in Orange City. U, Rabbi, if you would come forward and
and open us up, I would appreciate it. Aino Hashimay, our father in heaven, we come before you first and foremost to um thank you for the incredible um blessings that you just have poured into our lives here. Um we thank you for the
ability of the time and place where we live because we get to enjoy this freedom and the incredible resources of this county um that you've um created and give us an opportunity to enjoy. We thank you for the stewards that stand
before us right now um that stand up for us and for those resources. We ask that you give them wisdom as they move forward um for this entire place and that it would be a place that is kept as pristine and beautiful so we can pass on to the generations that go forward.
Amen. Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the standy for all. Thank you. Okay.
Who? Christa, would you call the role, please? Mr. Kent. Mr. Kent is here. Mr. Reinhardt here. Mr. Robbins here. Mr. Santiago here. Mr. Dempsey here. Mr. Johansson here. Mr. Brower
here. We have a full house, full disas anyway. And uh we will then start our meeting the way that we always do with public comments. When I call your name, please come up to the podium. Make sure that a microphone is near your mouth so that we can hear you and then it can be
um broadcast to millions of people around the world. And you want to be heard clearly. Tell us uh your name and you don't have to give your full address. just tell us where you live in the county so that your representative up here uh knows that where where you're
from. And we ask that you would keep your comments to uh that pertain to something in Valuchia County that this council may be able to act on in the future. And I would also just ask you to take your um First Amendment responsibilities seriously and just be
um uh considerate of of others around you and let's be respectful with one another and and have a good meeting. First up today tonight is uh John Nicholson from Daytona Beach. Joe Nicholson, Daytona Beachside. Uh
first on all of your desks, you'll see the uh uh form to ask for the New York Post from the City Library. Uh on City Island, they have five newspapers for
liberals. They have one. Uh the um which one? Wall Street Journal is the only conservative one. So, I'm asking for a second one. and the more people I get requesting it, they might do so. Uh I think it's only fair because the county is getting more conservative and
not to have something for them to read, I think is uh not kosher. Uh secondly, there was an article on Chitwood, actually two or three, and there's conversations out there. Uh I did the math. Uh he's charging individually a
couple dollars more than what we charge at the city of Daytona Beach. I think it's fair, but I um I think that the public is the public associates you with Chitwood and the county that an
explanation should be made. All right? Because I don't believe he's in the wrong. Uh I think it was it's equitable, but I think the public needs to know. Uh third, um Dog Beach. Uh you're going to talk about the horses, but the dog beach, they're
proposing that half the city of Daytona Beach be a dog beach. Uh it's almost four times the size of the beach you have in Orand. Um I think it's way too big. So, when that comes up to you, I'm asking that you not uh make half the
city of Daytona Beach because at at that point it'll be all of the beach again and I think it's a bit too much and I don't want to mix the uh horses and the dogs on the same beach. Um A1A, it's it's a mess, guys. Uh they
just talked about redoing it. They came to the city, they said they're going to redo it. Well, they're redo they're going to do A1A next. So at Daytona Beach, I'm asking everybody to pay attention because it's going to come to your city at some point. All right? And
you Troy has already made comments about when it hit Orman. He wasn't happy. Please look at what's happening. You may say, "Oh, okay. It's just DOT. I can't do anything about it." They make mistakes. Troy corrected theirs. They don't is
correcting yours. Correct them in your city before it happens is all I'm asking. uh the courthouse you're doing Foxman renovation. Think about putting uh on the south side of the building your new addition, your new courthouse because you could do a
lot of sharing if it's on the same property. There's already an area there for prisoners to come in. You can come in from Palmetto, take put a hole in that wall. They come in, they go up to the courouses. They don't even have to see anybody. All right? It's the perfect
location. and then put a parking garage across the street. Uh and lastly, you at the end of the meeting. Thank you for your comments. Uh Cindy Harris, Mr. Nicholson, do you want us just to give these to the clerk and you'll pick
them up? Thank you. Photo. Cindy Harris. I live in district three. I'm waiting on Christa. Wrong photo sideways. There we go. Before used a photo of beautiful Spruce Creek. This is
a water discharge area that sits in the centralized location in eastern Valuchia County. It feeds. It's a water discharge area that feeds into Rose Bay. That water eventually makes its way into Ponenid and out.
This is a centrallylo area that is a drainage system for a lot of the area in eastern Valuchia County. Next photo, please. As you can see, that's sideways. Can you flip it to the left, please?
As you can see, it sits in flood zone AE. Next photo, please. Can you flip that one to the right? The other way. Sorry. This is a map of the National Wetlands Inventory. That
entire area is in a wetlands. This has not come before you yet, but it's in the zoning review. It shows the existing developments around it. If this area is developed, it
is not only going to harm the developments that are around it, but there are a lot of feeder creeks into this Bruce Creek area. So, I want you to picture a drain that is backed up in your home. This is going to back up so
many areas north, south, east, and west of this. So, it's not only going to harm district three, it's also going to harm Matt's district, but is could actually potentially harm
the districts south of that. So Samsula, it could feed back into Ostein. It could feed back into Deltona. So this is a very potentially dangerous area to develop. The zoning board has already said that
along the creek it needs to be given back to Valuchia County with a 50-ft buffer. We already know that 50 foot, if you develop around a 50-ft buffer, it's going to get harmed. So when this does come before you, if I pray it won't, but if it does, I want you to seriously look
at this area. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Moren Leta. Good afternoon, council. I'm Morin Letter from Spruce Creek flyin unincorporated Valuchia County near Port Orange. I've been a resident since 2003.
I'm from district 3. I looked at the reszoning request and maps filed with the planning department. The recent request now includes 130 new residences between Quiet Place in the country and the Spruce Creek flyin. from your website and I quote, "The Valuchia
County Council has approved funding for 28 storm water studies totaling $8.6 million. Are we the residents paying for the storm water studies for this zoning variance? How much money are the
developers contributing?" To quote again from your website, "This amount may change as the county receives proposals from engineering firms. Also, the county has received requests for studies from municipalities that the county will work through the process to ensure appropriate approvals. I recently drove
down Charles Street and Russell Road and looked at the neighbors that will be affected just on Springwater Lane in the flyin. Yes, while thoughtful development can foster economic growth, this proposal risks permanent harm to the
critical wetland ecosystem. These wetlands are essential for number one flood control, number two water purification, number three habitat per preservation, and then please protect this Valuchia County waterway system and enhance our environmental oversight. I realize there are lots of moving parts
and pieces to be considered the economic impacts, schools, hospitals, emergency needs, roads, but more importantly, the future of Valuchia County. This council can demonstrate that economic progress and environmental stewardship can can go
hand in hand. I ask all of you to apply this vision and stand against this change of zoning that risks undermining many vital ecosystems. Even if the dishes and pipes are cleaned out periodically, then what? Please vote no to changing the zoning. The residents of both Quiet Place in the Country and
Spruce Creek Flying oppose the Cross Creek development. And don't look at the ceiling. Many of us will be victims of devastating flooding. Be a part of our lives, please. Even if the developers with lawyers and meet FEMA and other recommendations, please. County council
elect you are our elected representatives vote no. The PLDC meeting is in two days from now. Sadly, I believe the PLRDC may recommend and most of you and your friends sitting next to you may probably vote yes. Please take a stand and vote no. At
least four of you can vote no. Can't you? Will you? Please do not approve the change of zoning. Are you listening? I know you can never ever please everybody, but please please us. Thank you for listening.
Thank you for your comments. Uh Peggy Hill. Good afternoon. My name is Peggy Hill. I live on Miller Road in District 1. Miller Lake is still very full. The hurricanes have started for the season and Miller Lake will easily flood. We
need a solution to the overfilling of Miller Lake by the city and county. We also need immediate help in reducing the water level in the lake to handle a storm. Two things that would help and can be done immediately. pump down the lake and revoke the 2017 permit that has
caused so much damage. The council can and should direct staff to do these things today. We need a solution as the water is higher than it's ever been. We also need additional St. John's River Water Management District permits to stop adding to the problem. At the last
council meeting, the new ER in Orange City was discussed. While the county didn't show the flow of water from the ER very clearly, it was made clear that overflow for this and other projects is required. Why is overflow required to be directed
onto someone else's property? Why is overflow necessary if there's retention? If retention isn't adequate, it should overflow onto its own property. Certainly, it should not be directed towards someone else's property. Crown Center Plaza has applied for a new
St. John's River Water Management District permit. Will you ask for it to be rejected? The permit includes this statement. Conveying the overflow discharge from ponds C and D around Pond
B and directly into Unnamed Lake is a substantial improvement. This is Orange City Public's Plaza. um they're uh skipping retention and overflowing directly into unnamed lake. So I'll say
that again. They're skipping the retention on the property and asking to overflow directly into unnamed lake which through Royal Oaks goes to Miller Lake. Yes, this is city but the county and his
residents are affected. If the 2017 permit was 2017 permit was revoked, there would be no direct and easy path to Miller Lake. Please take action today. Implement a solution starting with revoking the 2017 permit
and pumping out Miller Lake. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Gary Singleton. My name is Gary Singleton. I live in the Port Orange area. I feel compelled to comment on the behavior of certain members of this
council during last meeting when you were selecting members of the charter review commission. It was an appalling disregard for the process of representative government and a demonstration by certain members as an utter what I see as an utter contempt
for Valuchia County citizens. We the people of Valuchia County elected Chairman Brower to represent us to the best of his ability. He honored our trust by nominating responsible, conscientious people of good character to the Charter Review Commission. nominees who would make thoughtful,
reasonable recommendations for this council to consider, people your constituents would want on this very important commission. But rather than accept these nominations bait on behalf of Beluchia County citizens, and absent any credible
objections, certain members banded together to fabricate excuses to falsely justify a no vote. This was the blatant demonstration of contempt for Felia County citizens. It was a shameless political maneuver intended to suppress the will of the people and load the
commission with biased pro-development members. Members will be expected to make recommendations that are far from being in the best interest of Valuchia County citizens. A constitutional republic cannot function as designed when our elected
representatives ignore the will of the people. If Valuchia County citizens are ever to regain control of our government, it is imperative that we replace you. That we elect representatives dedicated to serving the best interest of Valuchia County
citizens, not special interests. Thank you for your comments, Maurice Linton. Good afternoon everyone. My name is Maurice Linton, 359 Miller Road. I am part of the Miller
Lake crew and I just wanted to reiterate the things that Peggy really laid out very well. My property, my 5 acres is still 2 acres underwater. Has been since 2019. I understand in our particular basin
there's an eb and flow to the water levels. I've only seen flow the last few years, no eb. Um the request there is, you know, if the water's not going to be
leaving the area, uh the two acres, put me in an offer to buy it. The water's going to stay there. I'll sell it. I would rather not pay taxes on land that uh I'm holding water for
um for no reason. Uh I also have a request. There's a retention area next to Miller Lake that is county property and it is really overgrown with brush and
um little saplings and really needs to be mowed down and we need to get rid of all the critters and such that are in there and that is very close to my property as well. I'm not sure who to ask to put in that request but uh that
would be a big help as well. Thank you. Thank you uh for your comments. Uh Supervisor of Elections, Lisa Lewis. Welcome. Thank you. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the county council. I am Lisa
Lewis, supervisor of elections for Valuchia County. And I just wanted to take a minute to come in and thank you personally for the building that you purchased, not just for elections, but for future growth of county offices. Uh
it has been remodeled. We have moved in. We are just still getting settled, but we have at least our warehouse has moved in. We're all together now. And I just wanted to come and tell you thank you. If you haven't been by there, if you weren't by there before, you may not
notice a difference, but those of us that are local, you notice a big difference on the outside. It has been painted. If you look across the street where Office Depot and Aldi are, that's what it used to look like. We're totally different. As uh the previous owner, he
came to see it and he said, "Were you trying to divorce us?" So, um, but it does, it looks alive now, and I think that will be better for the county. Also, I did want to personally tell you that the chamber has reached out and wants to do a ribbon cutting for
us so we can let everyone know. We're also we've done a mail out, but it's going to be October 21st and your afternoon meeting 2:30 or 3:00. So, hopefully you can come before you come to the county council meeting because without you, we don't have a building.
and it is very much appreciated. It is laid out so much better than what we've ever had in elections and I think it's better for the voters and it is a nice central location coming into the land our county seat. So I just wanted to tell you thank you and look everybody
eye to eye and tell you. So thank you very much. Well thank you for that kind gesture. Uh Jeremy Keragenis. Hello. Uh my name is Jeremy Kerenus. I'm president of Lucia County Firefighters
at Local 3574. I'm here today to just strongly keep advocating for our fire fund to stay flat. Um I just want to thank uh a few of you that have reached out or asking questions or just uh considering how that roll back might affect the
community. Uh roll back directly impacts our ability to show up with the staffing and equipment that our community needs. Whether it's rescuing families from flooding on No-Name Lake, responding to a new motocross track, uh or adding personnel to ease that paramedic
shortage. I don't know if some of you guys pay attention to what's going in the news, but uh we're losing a lot of firefighters and paramedics in this county to surrounding counties and cities, making their communities safer. South Daytona is being forced to go down
to BLS. New Samura may lose a third of their department. And this matters for the county because we contract to those jurisdictions to provide service to the unincorporated areas. So, keeping our funding flat is going to help us make up for their shortfalls.
Um, I'm going to be greater grayer or lose my hair more than George is if I keep hearing that this county wants to adopt this 59minute ambulance response time. Because we're considered rural, our ALS fire engines are filling in
those gaps for that 59 minutes. Fire engines are already delayed waiting for ALS or BLS ambulances or going out of service when our paramedics ride in. That hurts our primary mission, which the NFPA doesn't recognize. And we'll always be there for our citizens. It should never take longer
though for an ALS ambulance or BLS to get on scene than it does to Uber Eats a pizza. With the flat funding, we can increase our staffing and help make up for those shortfalls. Again, this is about priorities. Protecting the community is number one,
and a flat rate is investing in fire rescue. So, thank you guys. Thank you for your comments. Uh Connie Colby. Good afternoon, Connie Colby um Orman Beach. I didn't talk didn't plan to talk right now, but John reminded me of
something that I would like to mention about the courthouse and I this is the um annex in Orange Avenue. Um I don't know that there's something going on that you're planning on doing any renovation or whatever on that but I
have um used that courthouse quite often and the dependency court because I was doing guardian editing for about 10 years and I would like to suggest if there's planning on this that the first floor where the um dependency court are
held there's a long hallway where the parents Um and the foster parents sit and wait for the children with the children. The children have to appear about every six months. So the children have to be there occasionally, but they're sitting there
waiting and their a lot of their parents are in jail and they're brought to the courthouse. They're kept in some place. I don't know where they're kept, but they seem to walk them through the area where the children are sitting and these children are saying, "Hi, mommy and daddy." And
it's kind of a sad situation. So planning forward gives some consideration for how the prisoners are brought into the courtroom so that they're don't have to walk in front of their children. Thank you.
Thank you. Before I call the last speaker, uh, county manager, I'm I'm going to ask you at the end, maybe either in our comments or or whenever you want to interject, um, on two topics that because I think
you have good news for we, you know, we are looking ahead and planning and then also on uh the the firefighter situation. Just giving you a heads up. So, the last uh last speaker this morning is uh Jim
Shepard. Good afternoon. My name is Jim Shepard been a 30 and I'm in district 1. Um, I was here three and a half months ago to address a fire sprinkler condition placed on my permit to build a a new home in Glenwood Reserve. I've been
playing a game of whack-a-ole, if you remember that game, since the since then with the fire services, growth and resource management, and the assistant county attorney. The arguments that have been provided to support their position have been refuted time and time again. Florida statutes, Florida administrative
code, Florida fire prevention code, the development agreement, and Valuchia County code of ordinances are all on my side. The intent of the Florida legislature is clear that the code be interpreted uniformly, reasonably, and cost-effectively.
Staff, including fire services, would like you to believe that the Florida Fire Prevention Code is a rigid and ownorous document that has their hands tied. Let me assure you, it is not. In the fortifier prevention code, there are a number of alternatives to meet the
fireflow recommendations. Yes, you heard me right, recommendations. Staff staff should be able to point to the section of the fortifier prevention code that my plan is not compliant with, but has not done so because, in my opinion, it does not exist.
The times they have attempted to do this, the code was taken out of context or grossly misinterpreted. This is a requirement of of Florida statute 60 633.208. 29 of the 50 homes in Glwood Reserve have been built built without fire
sprinklers. There's only 57 lots in the development. Another one of these homes at 3501 Dunstable was built in 2024. Rachel owned this owned this property and was faced with the same issue. Rachel became very very frustrated and
sold her property on July 7th, 2023. Um, she disclosed the fire sprinkler requirement to the buyer. The buyer said, "I'm a contractor. I think I can get around it." Sure enough, the contractor built a home without fire sprinklers and received a certificate of
occupancy on March 28th, 2024, less than nine months later. The contractor is a large tracked Shell home builder that apparently has connections with the county. What a coincidence. Again, I'm asking for the same rules
that were applied to the developers to be applied to me. You can't continue to explain the 29 homes that were built without sprinklers as a mistake any longer. Please review what I've told you and direct the county manager to cause my permit to be issued. Thank you.
Thank you. Um, county manager, when when uh I don't think there's anybody that sits on this dis that would accept a 59minute response time and um I I'd really like to hear from you or Suzanne
when that occurs. Does that occur? Mr. Chair, members of council, I think what Mr. Kagenus uh was speaking to is that the National Fire Prevention Association, FPA, sets national goals for ambulance response
times and we use those national goals to review our emergency performance in the county. uh in the NFPA goals for both urban and rural responses for
non-emergency calls is 5959. That is what is set across the country. These are non-emergency calls. These think of a sprained ankle or uh another uh call of that uh nature. Now e calls are
emergency time-sensitive calls in urban areas. The goal is to have a paramedic, at least two responders, one being a paramedic, on scene within nine minutes in an urban area and 18 minutes in a
rural area for a time-sensitive emergency call. We're fortunate in Valuchia County because most of our fire districts, in fact, I think almost all of them at the current moment have paramedics on their fire trucks. So, we
have what I'll call a dual response system. Both firet trucks and ambulances are sent to these emergency calls. And the national goal is to have a paramedic and an EMT on scene within 9 minutes.
Our system uh uh response at the 90th response time that is the measurement is 7 minutes 40 seconds in Valush County for urban e calls. So, as a system, we're performing very well to meet those national standards.
We we do have many firet trucks and sometimes our ambulances because sometimes the firetruck is first on scene and sometimes the EMS ambulance is first on scene, often sooner than 740. That is the average of the 90th
percentile. Um, in previous meetings, I think Mr. Carrie Genus has mentioned that sometimes the fire truck is having to remain on scene 15, 20, 30 minutes waiting for an ambulance to arrive and it's taking them out of service to be available for
another emergency call and that is not ideal. But we looked into those response times and when that is happening is generally in rural areas for non-emergency calls and that is something we can you know try to work
towards faster non-emergency responses but that is a matter of cost and resources uh and and we are doing you know our focus is on those emergency timesensitive and emergency non-timesensitive calls. So, you know,
there's there's uh statistics. Uh this is a whole science. I I will assure the council that uh our uh med emergency medical team and our EMS team uh and our fire teams are reviewing our responses
on a monthly basis as a group. They're looking at our performance. They're looking at outliers, any exceptions where perhaps an ambulance or a firetruck was not able to respond within those goals and looking for ways to either reposition equipment or to
improve the system. Uh so that we don't have those 10% outliers occurring any more than we absolutely have to. So, the rub is in our rural areas, like most of rural America, we do have our fire stations, uh, often
positioned in our rural areas, and they're often the first to respond, uh, to those rural calls. We're a big county. I think I've heard it mentioned, we're roughly the size of the state of Rhode Island. Uh, it does take time to sometimes respond. And in non-emergencies, we have to make sure we
send the right equipment to transport someone uh if they do want or need to be transported and keep the other uh equipment in correct position to be ready for those emergency time-sensitive calls. So, in short, that's the
response. I'm very proud of how our fire and EMS teams are working to provide what I think are excellent response times in our community. Uh I know I'm working with Mr. Van Cle, the director of our emergency services department, on some ideas he has on how to even better
improve our rural responses to get those fire trucks back into the station quicker. And we're going to always look at ways to further improve. But that's the mention of the 60-minute. That's the non-emergency, non-timesensitive uh request for transport.
Okay. Thank you. I I that's a when when you hear that I I couldn't just let it go. I appreciate the um the detailed explanation. Um it's certainly not what we want for an emergency call. Uh
Councilman Kent, thank you, Chairman, and Miss Conchin. Thank you for addressing the urban at 9 minutes and rural at 18 minutes and the county's urban. I believe you said the average
time was around 7 minutes. So just has me scratching my head this afternoon when the union president got up and asked us to not go to the 59 minute. What was that about? Well, when I
you can't you can't speak for him. Let let me two clarifications. The rural e calls, I don't think I mentioned the uh 90th percentile response. It's 12 minutes and 50 seconds, which is sooner than 18 minutes, which is the national goal. So, again, very proud of our fire
and EMS team. The 5959, I think those are the non-emergency calls. the person who really probably could transport themselves to an emergency department or an urgent care, but they are asking for an ambulance transport. And when we send a response team there and it's the fire
team that's there, they wait for the ambulance to relieve them, right? And when they and they're out of service, but correct me if I'm wrong, when a when a fire truck goes out of service, isn't there a plan to have a backup to help if the situation arises?
I mean they have a plan in place. That's a very good point. Yes. A agreed. And on any fire call, you have multiple engines that are responding. So that is that is the backup strategy. I I'll just end with two last comments.
I have every confidence and I'm a little biased because he came from Orman Beach and I worked with him, but I have every confidence in Fire Chief Joe King for the county of Valuchia. And I just want you all to know, management to know, I've had people in the community who are
in the know, in the life-saving business who say, "You have the best fire chief in all of Florida." They they they really respect this man and the work that he does. But I'm still scratching my head about why we were just Did I miss something whenever he spoke about
the 59 minutes? Did he did he focus that on non-emergency or was that like making people think that was possibly an emergency number we would get to if there was an emergency 59 minutes? Yeah, you can't answer that. I I know. All right. Thank you, Chairman.
Uh, Councilman Johansson, I apologize to drag this on, but um George Suzanne, I thought I saw Ryan back there. if we we were given a a budget already, but if if we went flat and and
got that money, um would my concern is overt taxing the citizens um uh year to year. So I I think we have
a a pretty good fire and probably EMS uh reserves. Um, now I know what we use reserves for. I know what we shouldn't use reserves for. But sometimes we get money and I'm concerned
that if we tax the public at the flat rate and we have these reserves, the big question comes up every tax year is what about the reserves? Um uh so I want to be clear if we go to the flat rate,
could we adequately spend that this year, uh or or or do we have a plan or should we uh if the flat rate's the place we ought to be or the place that the the union
thinks we ought to be, should we should we better include them in the in the conversation during the budget season uh to to come up with how they would spend that. It doesn't seem like if I say go to flat, George, you you would have a plan to use that money other than for
people maybe. Well, if you recall in our conversation, uh we owe you and we're prepared to come back on the at the next meeting with a plan of how what we would do with the with the money if we we stay it flat.
Okay. So you that's coming to you at the next meeting and um so we'll go over options of what could be uh done and how how it could be spent and uh I think in the short like I said at the meeting uh
you would be looking at capital you know would you could we speed up other things we were doing uh that would be some of the question but as far as uh daytoday uh that was And I and I I do have to say
uh the fire department, all the division heads, you know, uh and department heads, that's who makes the budget. Ryan doesn't make the budget. You know, Ryan is great and he does a lot of great stuff and he makes sure we do things
correctly and he makes sure funds work together, but the budget is created by the division and department heads. They they're the one because they have to live with it. So that's the it's a big mantra of mine. Uh and that's why we don't have you know normal budget
problems and people overspending or anything because they develop it, they bring it to us and we go through it with a fine tooth comb or at least a a comb and we uh and then we all decide and
that's what comes before you guys is the budget. So I appreciate your time. Thanks, Councilman Kent. Yeah, briefly, Chairman. Thank you. And um Mr. Johansson, thank you for your question because I
think it it really does uh hit the nail on the head. And George, I a little perplexed when you first started talking about you're coming back with what where we could spend that money. And then I think you kind of drilled it down into
capital. Um because that was my question a few weeks ago was hold on a second. So our fire chief, our division heads came with a budget to George which was approved and this budget that was presented to us. Everything we needed to
do for our folks in fire is in that budget and squared away because I'll be the first to tell you I I'm not your guy if if you want someone to to play cheap and not give our first responders what they need. I want them to be paid well. I'm going to advocate for the sheriff to
have the best helicopter in the business. I'm going to advocate for our firefighters and our paramedics to have the best vehicles they can they can have. I'm going to advocate for those things, but just to get more money to get more money.
My bosses are the taxpayers of district 4 of Valuchia County and I can tell you right now what they want. They want to keep that jingle in their jeans and I don't blame them. So, you know, uh if if if it was a different story where the county came and said,
"Hey, you know, we're gonna we're going to ask for a flat rate or even even higher than that because we need to perform our basic tasks." Okay. But that's not what I heard. Thank you. And that'd be correct. and and on top of
it I would say and we have money in reserves as we've stated. So if something does happen uh we can always make sure that they can they can do that. So that that part is just being responsible but you again I look forward to the discussion at the next meeting.
Thank you. Thank you Councilman Santiago. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um, I I just wanted to speak up more toward the part of process and uh I'm just concerned that we dove into this item that was unaggended. It
was it was sparked from public comment. That's not how our rules and procedures govern. And I get it. It could be important to you, you or me. So, what is going to be our protocol? If if anything's important to any one of us, then we can just open up and just
deviate from the agenda and just de derail everything and talk about it, then let's have it. Wild, wild west. I prefer that we stick to the agenda. If we have an item we want to talk more about, we either talk at the end or agenda it. So, I just it's not fair to the public either in my opinion. Mr.
Chair, I just wanted to express my I'm not afraid to say David's right. I'm not afraid to say it. Okay. Thank you for expressing that. I think I gave the county manager the opportunity to speak now or at the end of the meeting, but to to let that stand, I think the public deserve to
hear it. It was a pretty hard accusation that we they're waiting 90 minutes for emergency call and people worry about that. And and we also there Joyce said it very very well. We support our first responders and none of us wanted want to
be painted as a council that looks at 90 minutes and says that's okay because we can save a few bucks. That's not what we're doing. It's not where we're at. So, Mr. Chairman, I I obviously I broke protocol, but I wanted to give the county manager time
to to not just leave that on the table. Mr. Chairman, the topic was important. I agree with you and and and it needed to be addressed. I don't have no beef with the addressing the the or clarifying those comments. I think for me, it's more as where do we draw the line on that? cuz I'll just tell you it was a
concern for me that a member of the public came up here and said four of us were unconstitutional basically what he said in some of our actions in the past. I would have liked to address that but I didn't because it's not the process. I'm okay with whatever we decide. Let's just follow it.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Uh that takes us that takes us to item one, approval of the agenda. Motion to approve. Second motion to approve by Councilman Robbins.
Uh second by Matt Reinhardt, vice chair. Uh without changes, uh Danny, you all in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? And the agenda is approved as written. Um
Mr. Chair, we did ask for that one item uh C1 to be removed. Uh yes, if you look on item C1 that was added late has uh been removed uh late to come
back at a a future date. Um so we will skip that one. Um consent agenda. Um I would like to ask for item I uh just for uh comment to have Jonathan Edwards speak on that for comment. As
there are any other items uh for comment, Mr. Chair, I'd like a number uh item A for comment. For comment. Yes, sir. Okay. And Mr. Chair, uh item C and G just for comment by Matt.
And is there uh Danny Robbins? Motion to approve consented agenda minus items I, A, C, and G for comments only. Let me ask another question that I didn't ask. Does anybody have a item they were going to pull for a vote? Okay. Then motion is to approve uh uh
except for I A C and G for comment. Um comment sir. Comment please. Uh Councilman Kent. Thank you. I'm just a little um confused. If if these are only
comments, why are we not voting on all of them right now? We're voting on all of them. We are. The motion on the table is to vote for everything and then we could have comments on Oh, I I misunderstood. I I thought it was approve all these except for these for a comment. I'm good then.
I I might have used the word accept. I'm I'm sorry. Okay. Uh all in favor of approving the consent agenda, please say I. I. Any opposed? Consent agenda is is approved.
um seven to zero. We will start with item A uh from David Santiago, contract task assignment. Thank you, Mr. Chair, uh and colleagues. If Cyrus can come up and um this is
again occasionally I'll pull this item just to have a little bit more discussion more for the general public and this is an economic development uh presentation though I don't want you to go through the whole presentation. Uh uh Cyrus, if you can give us some highlights and then if you can expand a little bit on some of the airport news
that's happening. Well, good afternoon gentlemen, Mr. Chair, gentleman of the council, Cyrus Kellum, director of aviation and economic resources. So, um we had a very informative queue. Um this past Friday, uh Luke Paris gave a presentation kind
of highlighting what's going on with regards to construction and manufacturing activity throughout the county. And um we had some really good panelists that were um personal entrepreneurs um that started out as
single uh business owners and they were able to grow um pulling up their bootstraps and grow their business within the county and and contribute towards hiring individuals to help boost their their um staff and so forth. But one of the biggest things, one of the
highlights that Lou wanted to point out is the fact that uh we have these non-emp employer establishments. So entities kind of like these entities that started out that were um presenting at the queue. And there's a huge
opportunity for us to help those small businesses as opposed to going out and and trying to recruit these large companies to be employers. Uh with all of these entities, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,500
establishments that can actually benefit from the services of our new innovation hub to help grow those businesses from single earners to having being uh employers of people that are in our county. So uh that was the biggest
highlight. And then the other thing, the unemployment rate is up to 4.2%. 2%. Uh for a lot of people would they would naturally think that that was a bad thing, but actually it's a good thing for our economy because it means that
there's more capable employees out there within the workforce that you can actually add on to your your business if you're a small business owner. So, good opportunities there. Airport. Airport. So, we just uh recently had an
announcement. We have been uh fortunate and capable uh to bring JetBlue back into our market. JetBlue will start service December the 4th uh to both JFK New York and Boston. And this will be
daily service. And so I strongly urge everyone here within earshot of my voice to buy tickets. Right now they're $59. They're on sale now. And I would also be remissed if I didn't mention Breeze in our Akran Canton service that starts up
September 3rd. So, uh, airport is booming and so we're looking forward to these opportunities and, uh, hopefully these draw in more travelers and more people that want to come to our area and spend money at our beaches, our hotels, and generate towards our economy.
Two more questions. I'll ask them both together. Um, so that now would that be five individual airlines that we have uh pulling out of Daytona and I heard a rumor that we might be seeing a Caribbean destination. Is that a rumor?
If you can't share, that's okay, too. Well, I've been working with a variety of sources now that we do have JetBlue to have some discussions on uh the potential for some service to the Caribbean since, you know, JetBlue has
some market share in that arena. Uh we're a good ways away from that. We want them to get up and started and and and get established with the Boston and and New York flights. Um however, that is something that's on the table. So, and five airlines now.
And five airlines. That is correct. We got five. Most ever. I wouldn't say the most ever. 1990 was our heyday where we had probably all the major airlines. We had about eight or nine. But, uh, in this new day and age, yes, this is the busiest that we've been since the 1990s.
Thank you. Good job. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Councilman Robbins here. Sars, how are you? I'm great. Good, sir. Good. Hey, how are we looking uh for pad ready sites out at the airport uh or uh anywhere else in
the county? And do we have a uh list that's going to be coming available to uh to share uh with the community or like CEO Business Alliance that that does some recruiting, Team Valuchia, right? Anything like that? So, we're working with team Valuchia with regards to setting up the list for
county throughout since they're our economic development recruiter and they have the contracts with the site selectors. They've been diligently working with that. Now, at the airport, we have a variety of sites, in particular, Parcel 62, where Oral Arrow has announced that they're interested in
coming in. We still need to work out some details with their LOIs and and and get some designs and schematics out there, but um they're coming. And then we have parcel 61, which in partnership with our public works department with Ben Bartlett, we were able to make that
area pad ready. And we do have a variety of interest. Uh just met with one earlier today in terms of pad ready um ready to create some economics on the airport. So good good. What else can we
do and how much more property do we have uh in and around the airport to get more um sites ready kind of turnkey ready for somebody to to come in there and and go vertical? Do we have a list or something that we can prepare?
So, actually we we do have an on call consultant that is actually doing an analysis for us right now that is giving us an idea how much it would cost us to get a lot of the raw land that we have around the airport shovel ready. We have a huge parcel to the south. We call it
parcel 66. It's about 300 acres and it's the first domino in our storm water management program that's required. Of course, as we try to make this land pad ready, we have to make sure that we're meeting all storm water requirements. And so with that, we'll be able to use
some of the uplands that are in some of those parcels to develop property there. But the consultant is going to give us a well thoughtout list with the type of land that we'll be able to develop and how much it's going to cost for us. So that's actually in process right now. So
once that's complete, I'd be more than happy to share it with you. Mr. Robbins, on top of that, I think Team Valuchia maintains the list you're asking about as far as countywide sites. That's something they they're constantly working on and uh we could get with
Keith Nordon. uh but you know they're out selling uh the county uh and recruiting from other areas and they work with the various uh municipalities and um uh realtors so they know what uh land is out there besides the county and
of course we're part of uh that list depending if it's for aviation uses vice were you done Danny Vice Chair Reinhardt thank you chair You hit on the one thing with or I was kind of curious where they're at, but thank you for that explanation because we've heard about that a little while
back and I know it takes a while to get things vertical. I get that, but it's nice to hear. I did have a question with respect to the parcel 66. Is that our biggest? It's our biggest parcel right there. That's what I thought. Where is that at exactly in relation to the roads? So, um, those of you that are familiar,
we have USS Lexington in Pelican Bay. um that intersection there, parcel 66 is northeast of that road. Actually, a portion of I was going to say some of the infrastructure is already in there. Correct. Yeah. It it it kind of slices to the
parcel that's adjacent to that that connects to the new Amazon facility. So, up to where the county maintenance ends. That's exactly up to and and we do have plans to um create an an additional spar on that road to connect up to Belleview
Avenue Extension and then we've been in extensive discussions and we've been working with the the state DOT about what our alternatives are with Belleview Avenue Extension. So that'll have another road out there. That's the one you were talking about naming it after David Santiago, correct?
Well, we can talk about that. landfill. Road to the landfill. No, thank you very much. And the FAA, do they have they have a say in what we can put out there and what we can't? Big say in that. Yeah. Everything that's on airport property, we have to get
I knew that. I just kind of want to clarify that because some people were saying, "Well, you could put this, this, or this out there." And that often times doesn't fly without the approval of the FAA. So, that's exactly it. And I will tell you, I you saw me today. I visited your airport. Um, we still have room. We can bring some more in.
So, I was going to say that, but um that's the mission. Brought a family member in. They only want to fly in and out of Daytona. So, we're telling all our family up there. So, that's music to my ears. And like I said, everyone, it was worth the stop in in Atlanta. So,
they they had a layover in Atlanta for 59 minutes. It was 58 minutes and 59 seconds too long. Uh but they they uh appreciated the service that they got. So, thank you, sir. And and fortunately for those that are traveling to New York and Boston, you will have that opportunity
to fly non-stop here for the holidays. And so we are really looking forward to that opportunity. Councilman Dempsey. Yeah. I just want to applaud your work because uh my understanding is that you know since when we had that huge incentive package that we gave them, we
were able to secure Breeze and now JetBlue which is incredible without nearly as large of an incentive package. Is that right? That is 100% correct. As a matter of fact, no taxpayer money will go towards this JetBlue service. And that is awesome. I think that's great that is it fair to say now we're
becoming a destination for these airlines. Definitely we are. And I was I would be remiss if I didn't speak of our partnership with the CVBS is very important that we had access to some of that airlift capital to help push the message out to some of these markets. So
it's been a huge collaborative effort between all teams and all parties involved. Well, it's a big feather in your cap. Thank you. Thank you. Do you need to get a cap? Uh, Councilman Kent. Thank you, uh, Chairman Cyrus. Um, the
secret sauce seems to be working and the pistons are firing again at Daytona International Airport and positive things are are happening. I'm really pleased that you talked about JetBlue and no taxpayer funded incentives for them this time around.
And I'm I was very very happy when I read that um these were going to be daily non-stop flights. Uh that's that's wonderful. So I just I just I guess I ask you, you know, it's 1986, man. You're in that Smokeoky and the Bandit
Black Trans Am and you you got the the pedal down, man, and you're starting to redline. What do you do? We just keep driving. You redline it. Absolutely. All the way. Don't take your foot off the gas, Cyrus. Thank you. Uh my comment to my staff is once we celebrate, we're already too
late. Let's keep it moving. Mr. Chairman, my screen isn't working. Can I speak? Still not working. Uh yes, Councilman Santiago. Thank you. I just wanted to add uh as everybody said, great job and and I know you guys we have professionals running it, including news and your leadership clearly makes a difference. I I just
want to emphasize that now that they're coming and you know we're building up to whatever that year was um please make sure our teams including our partners outside that partner with us that we're focused on maintaining them. Absolutely. Right. Because it's not easy. It's hard
to get them. Yeah. It's probably even harder to keep them. So I want to make sure we don't lose anything unique from this council to make sure that um you know we're doing everything countywide to make sure that they're successful. um and keep bringing
tourists or being in access for our residents to to leave and come to just that's more of a soapbox statement, but I appreciate that and and like I I want to reiterate wherever we can get the message out to the citizens of Valuchia County to use this airport. It's one
thing to get this air service. It's another thing to keep it. And if we're not averaging 85% load factors and that airline is not making money, they will leave our market. So, we got them here. We are answering a lot of the questions
that people have had over the years. Now that it's here, you have to use the service. $59 flights help. $59 help. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's all all good news. Before we move on to C, we have a public comment on
item B. Uh, Cindy Harris. Thank you, Council Cindy Harris, District 3. If you approve this letter, it's going to it's just one step closer for more flooding in Edgewater. And I wanted to bring to light to the council members
who weren't present last night. CMAX has a terminal for aggregate storage not far from this location just in New Simra Beach. Last night, Edgewater City Council voted unanimously to fight back
against SP80. They voted unanimously to join the coalition. They also voted unanimously to back you on amending SP 180. They stood up for their citizens.
If you approve this letter for Titan Florida to Florida to come in it and do a um aggregate storage right there in Edgewater, it's just going to bring more burden upon them. FOT doesn't need that storage unit right there with CMAX has
storage just a few miles away. So, I'm pretty beg pretty much begging you on behalf of Edgewater not to do that to them. It's just going to bring in more development and they don't need that when they're backing you to amend SB80 and they're joining the coalition,
this little town of Edgewater. So, please don't burden them anymore with more development when they're supporting you. They need your support now. This is just one step forward if you agree with Excuse me if you agree to
this letter. They're fighting hard to protect their city. They're fighting hard to protect their citizens and their businesses. So, they're looking up on you to help support them. This is not needed in Edgewater when just a few miles down the road there's
already one. So, please take that into consideration when you look at this item, item B. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. And item uh C, Matt Reinhardt. Thank you, chair. Um item C, I just want
to bring clarification to this. And George, you and I just talked about it. This is just the um uh just the front part of the building where it uh experienced some of the damage just at the justice center at 251 North Ridgewood, not the annex. And this is
the windows or brick or whatever that right. This is the some damage has occurred to the existing Foxman Center and this is just a facade work, brick work that's uh uh there. It's not anything to do with any expansion, nothing interior, nothing expansion. So, I just want to clarify that. I know when
they saw a courthouse and uh we think that Mrs. Kby brought up some good points. I in my previous career spent a lot of time at the annex over in Orange Avenue and and there are some needs there and we've discussed that and there is a plan in the mix. So, this is a more routine points
uh upgrade to the facade. There's some I think there's again some bricks that have been a problem and and some windows. So, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Okay, we do G and go ahead and do G. Thank you, chair. Um this I just wanted
to commend um Tabitha. I know she's here. Um thank you very much for what you bring to that area. Uh, yes, it's in my district, so I'm a little biased on that, but what is offered at Moaz is truly phenomenal and the use of what you
have done with the echo grants is you write the write the book on it. So, thank you very much for all you do. This is well needed when I went into detail. I thank you for meeting with me about some other issues uh recently. If you have not had the experience to go out there and have grandchildren or children, I mean, dinosaurs, come on.
This is awesome. So, um, definitely I I just want to commend you. I saw you sitting there. I didn't want your time to be wasted and to give you the recognition you deserve for what you do at Moaz. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, chair. Okay. And that concludes the uh consent
agenda discussion. Uh, yeah, that's the one I pulled. Thank you. You weren't going to let me forget, were you? I will if you want. Yes, this is uh cons concerning parking
at the uh around the Ocean Center. Yes. Good afternoon, council members. Jonathan Edwards. I'm the internal auditor and like you said, we're here to discuss the parking operations at the Ocean Center. During 2024, the Ocean Center hosted 118 events with more than 500,000 guests. And the parking
operations include the garage and the South and West Park. Last year, it generated over $3.6 6 million in revenue in the county contracts with LA parking and we are in year seven of the 10-year contract. We conducted direct field obser
observations during four actual events to assess the real world operations. We found gaps in contract oversight which impairs the accountability. Laz promised to conduct customer surveys but those were not performed. LZ has not submitted audited financial reports or
bank statements. Doing so would help enable the Ocean Center staff to independently verify that all parking revenues received were reported and LAZ employs their own internal auditors who go on site and conduct audits of their parking operations and they come to the Ocean Center at least once a year.
However, those reports were not reviewed or followed up on by the Ocean Center staff. Staff did not have a standard operating procedures or a policy and procedures handbook which would help provide guidance for overseeing parking operations. Um before I move on, I wanted to make it
clear we did not find any theft or fraud um by LAZ or any of their employees. However, we did find significant control weaknesses that create opportunities for skimming revenues. Some of the issues creating these weaknesses were differences in pricing for Ocean Center
Vents, um which cost $15 for a parking spot versus the Peabody events um that cost $10 for the same parking spot. Since last October, the Ocean Center stopped accepting cash and receive only credit and debit cards for the Ocean Center events. However, up until this
month, um they were also accepting cash for the Peabuddy events which caused confusion um to some of the customers. We did observe this causing tensions as I said with the customers who became quite upset and essentially to the customer this is this appeared as if the employee was defrauding the ocean
center. In fact, a few customers even accused us auditors of defrauding the Ocean Center. Um, LAZ employees also were using generic login on shared credit card machines and using the names of Revenue Audit or Alan Lzowski. And when auditors struggled with a credit
card machine not accepting a customer's credit card, the customer offered um us cash to pay for their parking spot. And the LZ employee told uh instructed us auditors to take the cash and then charge our own personal credit cards after our shift was done. They said this was common practice in the event that a
credit card machine goes down during operations. La LZ employees use plastic cash bins as you can see here in the picture instead of cash registers to store cash and tickets exposing tickets and cash to weather elements and to the customers.
And we also observed that last supervisors seldom checked on employees throughout um their shifts. Again, these created issues um or these issues created many opportunities for parking attendants to skim revenues. We identified significant safety issues
that could lead employees to rationalize or justify the skimming of revenues. As seen in the picture, um attendants are placed in the middle of the lot and were almost hit by a school bus. This was not a one-off. During those four days that we were there, we're there a total of 18 hours and we observed this on many
occasions. Think school buses, uh, trucks with large trailers, boats, um, being towed. There's also no shelter for attendance at the lots. And we know this is Florida and the daily afternoon storms and showers, but no consideration for the attendant safety. We noted there
were no breaks for staff and no safety clothing, safety clothing, as you can see in this picture. And we also noted a lack of parking space availability and a lack of coordination. The attendants are placed at the front entrance but cannot always see who is leaving the lots.
On April 10th, the Ocean Center hosted a national cheerleading event and the Peabuddy hosted a Frankie Valley concert that evening. On this day, the parking supervisor was using a golf cart to help locate open parking spaces in the back. However, their shift ended 2 hours before the concert started just as the
concert goers were arriving to park. And soon after, traffic was brought to a standstill. As you can see in the picture, we observed very many uh very angry customers, some leaving their vehicles to yell obscinities and vulgarities at the employees. And the city of Daytona had to send a public
works employee to help with traffic, and eventually the police department had to come and help. They described to us which streets were backed up due to the parking situation. As you can see on the map, as I've described, there are several opportunities for parking attendants to skim revenues and there are also several
safety risk present that could lead to attendants rationalizing or justifying their actions. And finally, we have all have pressures from personal bills, medical bills, living beyond means or whatever else life may throw at us. All three of these elements of the fraud triangle are present currently, meaning
that the person is highly likely to commit fraud. Again, we did not detect any instances of fraud, but the risk of fraud is very high. LZ auditors projected an annual revenue loss of $48,000 at the Ocean Center, which sounds like a lot. However, it can be
quite easy when you break down the math. It only takes six tickets an hour if there are six events per month. And the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners estimate that organizations lose approximately 5% of their revenues to fraud. for the ocean center parking that
equates to about $180,000. And again, if there are two people involved colluding together, it only takes five tickets per hour for the six events per month. Um, in 2024, the Ocean Center averaged 10 events a month. Finally, we had 17 separate
recommendations to protect parking revenue and help ensure employee safety. These recommendations will help close the gap on the opportunities and any justifications of the fraud triangle. things that we as the county can help control to help reduce the risk of fraud. We also included recommendations
on contract management and oversight. I will say management agreed with all the recommendations with the goal of implementing them all by the end of this year. Lynn and her staff began working on the recommendations as soon as they became aware of them and I would like to thank the Ocean Center and Laz parking employees for their assistance during
the audit. I'll happy to answer any questions. Okay. Thank you for going through that. That's exactly what I was hoping you would do. When I first saw this, my my first reaction was we need to get rid of Laz. I I've always supported contracting. One of the one of the um uh
reasons that the public will sometimes oppose us on that is because a contractor they say will not take good care as good care of their employees as as we do. That happened here. leaving employees out in the 98 degrees sun in
rain with no no cover, no protection is is uh unforgivable. So again, my reaction was let's get rid of Laz. I've talked to you about it. I've talked to the staff about it and please correct me if I'm wrong. I think you agree that
you're happy with the procedures that the counties put in place to give them an opportunity to do what we're making asking them to do. what the what they should have always done and then so now it's on your shoulders. Uh, Director
Flanders, I hope you have time for it. I know this is important to you. It's important to me also because this whole council is asking you and you you've answered all our call to bring in uh good musical groups. You've hired people. We're looking forward to that.
This will ruin it if if this happens. So, both of you, are you satisfied with uh the strategy of the county to make to correct this and make sure it doesn't happen again? Okay,
you have time to do that. I think Lynn needs to address I would I would like to address something. Um, thank you for the opportunity. Um, I want to acknowledge the findings and I want to um provide clarity on where we stand. Um, I have over 25 years of uh, experience in
parking operations, beginning with the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta and most recently managing large-scale parking operations with thirdparty contractors in Atlanta at the Galleria at the Cobb Energy Center and in conjunction with Truest Park and the Atlanta Braves for
all ancillary game day parkings, including major events for World Series and concerts. That said, when I arrived at the ocean center, um I identified deficiencies um within the first 90 days and we began corrective action. So, this wasn't surprising what we have found in
the audit. Um, I have a very detailed list of all of the items that we put into place prior to the audit, but I will just summarize with saying that some of them that were the most significant to me, having as a CPA and having been an auditor that has actually audited parking operations, we
immediately uh started transitioning events to a cashless parking for the ocean center, not the Peabody, but for the ocean center. We were asked by the pea body to hold off on re uh cashless until they could make proper marketing announcements to their guests because of
the demographic they serve. Um we started standard standardizing rates. We presented to you all twice for an addition to go from different pricing structures to one flat fee of $15 plus an overnight. Um, we started tightening reconciliations for staffing parking
that would eliminate vendors uh vending out staff that may or may not work for the any longer for the for the ocean center. We eliminated an outdated accounts receivable practice and we started writing clear operating procedures with LAS in conjunction with
LAS. As with any third-party contractor, it is important to note that we manage a contract and that we did. We don't manage their staff. So, we look to last for these recommendations and these best practices because they are familiar and upto-date with what happens in the
parking industry. Um, despite our noted improvements that we talked about, we continued to see management issues from our operator. I raised concerns repeatedly, phone calls, emails, even stepping myself into the parking operation on several occasions to manage
it personally. Um, Jonathan and I Jonathan mentioned obviously that they were doing the audit this year. Um, I was excited that they were doing the audit and we deliberately scheduled the audit on a complex date or scheduled of dates. So, I wanted to ensure that all the issues were captured. Um, I could
have stepped in to mask the problems that day, but I chose not to because a candid audit was necessary for for long-term accountability. As Jonathan noted, we have no evidence of loss of revenue and we continue our process to ensure that Valuchia County keeps all
the revenues that belong to Valuchia County. That is a commitment and we continue that. The result was exactly what was expected from the audit. No surprises to me. Most importantly though, Lass who was here with us today. They responded immediately. Um they
terminated the manager within within the day. They installed a knowledgeable replacement Alex who is here with us today who was wellversed in parking operations and they are actively correcting the deficiencies with us as a partner to them. Um, we are also exploring and continue to explore the
enhancements that Jonathan had mentioned but that we all already had in process and that was the uh putting an LPR system on our flat lots and that was also putting a loop counter in which wasn't mentioned there but a loop counter so you can see how many came in how many came out the difference each
day you know is the potential for somebody's theft and you go reconcile those numbers. Um while the audit um was tough um it did validate our concerns and it triggered the changes that we need and um we are confident I am
confident that our operations are on the right track and with a stronger oversight and just a clearer plan moving forward and that is with the help of Lass. So LAZ is here if there's any uh any questions you have of of LAZ they sent their regional VP to talk to us tonight.
Okay. Thank you. We do have another council member that would like to speak. I I would I would accept nothing less from you. I would expect nothing less from you. So I and and that's why I've done this because you needed to be able to speak.
This is like exposing our dirty laundry except that um you had already exposed it. Uh you and Jonathan worked together. Again, I I'm sorry there's last people sitting here. I wouldn't have kept them, but I got to trust you and county staff
that it'll work. Um, so because when Troy gets the Red Hot Chili Peppers here to come, we need parking. And that's the the last thing I'll say before I give it to Troy is I want the count the council to realize, I'm sure everybody read through this
report. um when that happens, when you start filling uh seats and we're going to need more parking somewhere. We don't have enough now when there's two events going on. So, we got to be looking ahead and make sure that we have enough parking. Uh we have two other council members that would like to speak to you.
Uh first, Troy Kent and then David Santiago. Appreciate it, chairman. Thank you. And to George and Lynn, we as a council, we cannot invest the kind of money that we've agreed on behalf of the taxpayers and
put plans in place and then have epic failures with traffic like that where I believe in the past we refunded people because they missed their shows because of of traffic nightmares. That cannot happen. It it just can't
happen. And to Jonathan, I am so appreciative of of your unbiased audit and opinion. And Lynn, I would expect nothing less, like the chairman said, because I feel like you're loaded
to the gills with integrity. No one should jump in and try to change the way things constantly are, how things constantly are. I was shocked when I read through this and when I heard publicly here tonight
about the triangle of opportunities that can happen. This is wildly inappropriate and chairman. I don't know that I'm actually there with you. I I feel like this was so out of bounds. Like I'm I
want to go, George, how long till you can hire people for city staff to run it and we'll just keep all the money and tell me how it's going to work financially because I'd rather have it in house at this point. Like I am I am beside myself. Um that we have a
contractor whose employees were taking the cash and then saying they're putting it on their own personal debit card. What? Like if that doesn't scream
fraud, I don't know what does. I am not at your comfort level. I'm I am extremely concerned. Um Lynn, I have tons of faith in you and I'm glad that you feel better about it. I'm glad the VP has come into town to talk to us and
try to make us feel better. But at the end of the day, I feel like the taxpayers are getting cheated and you know, there's no fraud that was found, but taxpayers, I think you took it on the chin and I'm not okay with that. Councilman Santiago,
thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wouldn't rise to the level of saying that need to change it because there's certainly some areas of needed improvement based on the findings. Um I I don't put it as a three alarm fire.
Um I'd say it's problems that need to be addressed. I think we can probably look across all all entities and find issues that we can fix. That being said though, I don't understand the operations on how the parking works completely. So I'm a novice to that part of it. But there's a
part of me that says to me, why aren't we using um upto-date machinery with arms and people putting credit cards? like when you go to you you put your credit card in the gate opens and lets you out. Why aren't we using that technology? We do have that technology in the
garage. So is deploy the flash system the the uh we have handheld remotes in the um in the in the surface lots with the plan to put in the LPRs in the surface lots. Yeah. But that still requires manual, right? Uh LPRs? No. Well, the LPR is a license plate reader, right? Yes. Exactly.
But it's not going to charge them. Yeah. they'll they'll have to put in their their account information to charge the credit card through the LPR. So, yes. I mean, you'll pull in as the LPR's work and then you get a QR code and you put in your information and then it charges your account.
So, we're going to that 100%. Is that what you're saying? In the flat lots. Yes. In the flat lots. So, what other lots are there? Just the flat lots in the garage. Oh, the garage is already automated. The garage is already automated. So, everything will be 100% automated at after that point. Okay. Exactly. And we're purchasing. Sounds like you got a plan.
Yeah. purchasing handhelds that that directly uh communicate with flash as well. So, it is a it is a it the plan is in place to move forward with with that. How long to deploy that? 100%. We're hoping by December 1st, but
January 1st at the should be the latest. But we have three years left on that cont. We do. What happens at that point? We'll put it back out for bid the contract. No, I mean what I mean is if we keep we keep the equipment and now let me clarify my question. Okay.
If we're going to if we're projecting to deploy this 100% automation, but I'll use that term in by December, you said and we have three years left on the contract with this company. What are the terms of that? If you're not aware, that's okay. But
if you're talking about like there they'll adjust their staff. If you're talking about what happens to them uh you know there still have to be management uh of the site is still on the garage as well
keep and keep in mind even with automation is of course we're getting better and better at every day as we uh what we've done with the beach and other things uh there'll be a burn-in period and you're going to need people there to
uh override things and make sure that uh we can get them to that event. Okay. Thank you. And even at the parking that we have have had sometimes we've had to stand people there to help people use the machinery because we do have, you know, all sorts of people that come to our
events. And I think that's the issue with the Peabody. The Peabody felt like uh a lot of their employees or I mean uh their attendees really still wanted to use cash and they didn't want to be deterred. But we we we just as you see the it's necessary to to
go to a cashless uh given uh again what we're up against to make sure we okay are safe for that makes sense human intervention is still going to be required in some level right um I'll just insert my opinion I don't know how far along you are with the LPR that part but I hate those apps that
when you go to a place oh download this app sign up name address all of this stuff and I'm sitting there angry as you can add in some words there and I got to go through this. Why c can we have if that's where we're going? Can we have a hybrid where I just go put in my credit
card pay gate opens that that works in almost all the major hotels where I just attended a conference and I paid when I left. Here's my credit card. It opened up in 30 seconds or less. I I I'll leave that there. Don't ask that. But if we
can find a way I'm sure I see some head shaking out there when I said I hate those apps. So Yeah, there we go. Anyway, just my thoughts. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt and to the council. Uh,
remember we've got two people from LA here if anybody has questions for for them. Um, Vice Chair, thank you, chair. Um, thank you for the full automation explanation that has come into play and I have to piggyback on what Mr. Santiago said with respect to make it easy, as easy as possible.
And I appreciate that. Um, Mr. Kent, I was that it was probably the biggest thing that alarmed me was that specific incident. Um, I and I respect that because I mean that kind of blew my lid when I when I saw that. Um, even though there was nothing
discovered, that still leaves a propensity of of something bad to happen. Um, however, I've never been a throw the baby out with a bath water kind of guy. You know, my understanding is that hopefully wasn't isolated. I don't know. Uh hopefully that was
corrected and that person's gone. That would be a question I would have. Um but I've never been an advocate of someone that likes to just get rid of the entire company that we've had a relationship with over the actions of one or a
couple. Um I think that that goes negative for us as well. Um but anyway, so I have the discomfort a little bit, but I have the comfort in you and I have um you have my utmost respect and I am very
very confident that you'll take us past this. Um but I am interested to hear a little bit more if there Mr. Kenny wants to speak again. So thank you very much, Councilman Kent. Thank you. And very briefly, um Chairman and Mr. Reinhardt, I I especially Miss
Reinhardt, I hear what you're saying, but I heard Jonathan say, correct me if I'm wrong. The individual that did that said it was the words I heard was common practice. So, it was common practice. That's what they did. So, that's why my heartburn is
still there. Okay. Uh don't see any other comments. Thank you uh thank you director for coming in and talking. Thank you again Jonathan for exceptional work.
We will uh move on to item three. Yes we did. Item three is a confirmation of appointment of Raymond Tiner to the position of department director growth and resource management.
Yes. Uh Mr. Chair, I'm very happy today to uh bring before you Raymond Tiner uh and ask for the confirmation uh of his appointment to the position of department director for growth and resource management. Uh Rey is uh uh got
a lot of experience. Of course, he's going to re some big he's going to be replacing some big shoes with Clay Irvin, but we were fortunate enough in our hunt to not have to go very far right up the road to Palm Coast. Uh Ray has been up there, he provides over 28
years of proven experience and planning and uh growth management. actually began his career as an environmental and safety manager in the private sector before he went to uh the city of Palm Coast. He's been up there in Palm Coast for 23 years as he progressively
advanced the roles of environmental planner, planning manager, and currently the deputy director of community development. He has spearheaded Palm Coast's first comprehensive land development code. uh established innovative special assessment districts for infrastructure
funding, successfully guided the city's qualification for the national flood insurance program, and streamlined permitting processes to be more efficient and customer focused. He's won many awards, received the 2025 regional
award uh for excellence in planning and growth management. Um, he has a bachelor's degree in anthropology from the University of South Florida, nearly three decades of experience, and I'm very happy to bring him forth uh for confirmation today.
Move to approve. Mr. Chair, you're looking at us like, well, what what do I do now? We have a motion to approve the nomination by David Santiago. The second was by uh was it Danny Robbins? Okay.
And we would we would love to hear from you. Thank you. Thank you. And uh good evening, council members. First, uh I want to express my sincere gratitude for the trust that uh our county manager or deputy county manager has in me uh for
filling this uh position. I also want to uh recognize Mr. Klay Irving himself. He uh has many years of dedicated service here. uh he's built a great team and he was uh committed to this organization and I have great respect for the
foundation that that he had uh put in place and I'm looking forward to taking that baton and and moving forward as well. Um after 23 long years at the city of Palm Coast, um the time is right for me uh to move on uh with this new
challenge. uh the role provides an opportunity for me to apply not only the environmental background that I have but also uh the growth management uh as well. On a personal note, I do have to fa thank my wife Carrie uh for 35 years
who has been by my side uh of doing public service pretty much all my life. And also my daughter Viviana, she's 11 years old. could not make it tonight, but she always reminds me how important it is for good planning, growth management uh for the future for our
children. So, I I am really deeply honored uh for this opportunity and um if I'm um if I'm confirmed tonight, I really look forward to working with your team and making our citizens uh top priority. So, thank you for your your
consideration. Comment, Mr. Chair. Thank Thank you very much. We have several questions or or comments. Uh Councilman Santiago's uh queue isn't working, so I'll let you go first. Uh David, I don't know who was
first. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank Thank you, guys. Sorry, I can't see the screen at all. Who's queued up? Welcome. Uh hopefully in a few minutes. And uh I I just wanted to make a statement. Um I your bio speaks very well for itself. I was my ears perked up with the
anthropology thing, but I'll have some private uh conversations with you on that in the future. Um and um I don't know if you heard, you know, when uh we had our last meeting in the position, I made the statement that it's the second toughest job in the county. Um and uh I
I'm happy that you're taking that that on and uh I think this council has been supportive of that role and understanding of the toughness of that role. Um my ask as an individual council member is apply the code fairly to everyone um regardless of where they
come from or from economic scale from the top to the bottom. If there's a problem with our code, follow the channels and we will address it. So that's my ask and that's kind of my mo as an individual council member. So happy to have you here. Thank you, Councilman Kent.
Thank you, Chairman. Uh Mr. Tiner, unless things go sideways here in a few moments, I'd like to be the second to welcome you uh on to Valuchia County. Couple of things I appreciate. I appreciate you mentioned uh Clay Irvin. He has set the bar for me with land use planning um since the beginning of my
political career. So, I'm I'm pleased that you mentioned him. I'm even more pleased that you talked about your wife and your 11-year-old daughter. That's uh it's hugely important to me that you mention your family and um that it brings that center back to you with your daughter when you think about planning
and her life and things like that in the future. So I'm appreciative of that. My last piece is you have a last name I've only heard one other time. Any relation to Tori? No, I do have a lot of relatives in Lakeland, Florida. That's where my dad 11 brothers and sisters. He was a World
War II vet. He's not around anymore, but that's where a lot of my ters come from. Just since you were from the area, I was going to say, you know, Tory Tiner was an excellent health teacher at Seb High School back in the day, and I didn't know if you had any relation to him, but hey, welcome. Thank you, uh, Councilman Johansson.
Thank you. Um, I I'll give you a welcome because I know this isn't going to go sideways, but, uh, hopefully you've watched a meeting or two or you're going to sit down and watch the rest of this when, God willing, the midnight doesn't come. um
and to understand what we feel about about growth and and development. Um uh there are some things that that we all here hold sacred and uh
one of the things that that you know we worked with Clay with uh since I've been here and and even before that is uh try to get to Yes. try to figure out a way to get to yes. Uh your your staff will
do a great job at that. Um but you know, walk in the office every day. How are we going to get to yesterday? And and if you can't, you can. I get that. But uh um you know, we we try to do what's right by our citizens and and everybody
that's a property owner. Everybody that's a property owner, I consider a citizen. So um welcome aboard. Uh you got a great team. I hope we didn't poach you away from our neighboring uh uh municipality, but uh if we did, let us
know and we'll we'll have the right people between you and them to to prevent any um bad bad things that from happening. But welcome aboard. I appreciate you. Thank you. Just a couple quick questions. Have you uh have you relocated from Palm Coast to
unincorporated Valuchia County? Uh no sir. And I actually don't live in Palm Coast technically, but uh we we have a house there with my family. So um have not relocated. You're you're going to commute. Yes, sir. Good. Okay, that's fine. Uh next
question. And um I think I need to ask you to please don't go into any detail, but I'm I'm assuming, and I don't want to assume, I'm curious while you were at Palm Coast if you were involved with the decision uh concerning a fuel
distribution center. Yes, we actually were um they came on board with us. Um, and we actually had a code provision that required a majority, a super majority of our council. Uh, it didn't go very far, but they did they
did approach us for one piece of property. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. Any other questions? Then, uh, we need to vote on Raymond Tiner for the position of department
director, growth and resource management. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? You are confirmed unanimously. Seven to zero. Now an official welcome. All right.
By the way, every meeting is Ben's birthday. Just so you know. Ben Bartlet. Every meeting. It's a tradition. And item four, uh, County Manager George Rectenwald, and I'll let you take this away, too, for another confirmation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, I'm very happy
to, uh, bring before you uh, for confirmation and and introduce you to Gus Sombrano. Uh, he is, uh, going to fill a position that's been vacant for a little bit. Uh, the assistant county manager. Just so there's clear
clarification, Suzanne's not going anywhere. she is the deputy county manager. Uh and then this position actually works out of my office. Uh is the assistant to the county manager. Assistant county manager is the actual title. Uh and it's going to fill a need
that we've had for a while of for special projects. As we all know, we have over $400 million in projects that are hitting the streets uh through our transform 386. And of course the county has taken on the big role of of managing
these projects for the cities as well. Gus will be part of that effort along with other efforts uh uh special projects that get thrown our way redevelopment. He has extensive experience uh and we can go down through that. He's been a transformational
leader for 27 years. He began his career down as a planner in the town of Davyy. He advanced to the city of Mariramar as a senior planner and rapidly ascended to director of economic development revitalization and then director of community and economic development. His
visionary leadership delivered extraordinary results over with over 7,000 new jobs and $250 million in capital investment in the Myiramar community. He also went on to serve serve as the assistant city manager to
Hollywood, Florida where he managed $600 million 5-year capital improvement program. He has very impressive academic credentials. He has a master's degree in urban planning, bachelor's in geography.
Uh I think he he did his master's work up in uh University of McGill uh McGill University in Montreal. Uh he's been recognized nationally including prestigious awards for ICMA and honoring his 25 years of service. And he has
proven expertise uh operating at the executive level and I'm looking forward to having him help us continue the work we're doing and follow through uh on a lot of our projects and goals as we go forward. Motion to approve. Was that you with the motion? We have a
motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt. and second by Danny Robbins. We have a member of the council who would like to speak to you and um do you want to hear from him first or did you have a question now?
No, I'd like to hear from him first. Okay. And then we also uh so we'll we'll do that and then we also have a member of the public who would like to speak on this. But go ahead and introduce yourself. You thank you uh Gus Sbrano. Uh good afternoon everyone. uh honorable uh
chair, vice chair, um it is uh beyond exciting to be here today. Um Valuchia County was the first place I applied to when I considered leaving the South Florida area and I'm here and um it is
as close as I'm going to get as to a a dream, a personal dream, a professional dream. And when I came to Baluchia, it was just magnificent. The I I've grown up in urban areas all my
life. So to see the special nature and the special place that Bluche is, it's something that really needs to be uh preserved and looked at very carefully. I say that because we all know that Florida is being paved like a parking lot. Um we've just been growing, growing, growing. So to find a place
like Valuchia, it's just uh we got we've got to protect and uh but I'm also from an economic development background. So the balance between those two are critical because um the economy needs to flow in order to be able to do
everything else. So it's that balance I think is very important. And I think that my skill set and my love for nature and rural areas and green spaces uh will help try to balance that based on your policy direction and direction of the city man uh county manager, excuse me,
too long in in city government. I apologize, but you know, I traveled a little bit in the county and I'm very impressed. I'm a new resident of Port Orange. Sorry, not uninccorporated, but still. Uh I was instantly impressed by Port Orange. I got off 95 and I expected
what I usually expect when you get off 95 into a community. That's not what I got. And I said, "Wow, they really put some thought into this, you know, and um it is uh it is just it was refreshing." And then uh the land uh everywhere I've
gone and and people I've talked to, they all say it's a gem and I agree with them. Uh so, you know, I've I've uh this is a beautiful place and I'm very proud to be here and particularly proud to be here. uh from a public service perspective. I take that very seriously.
Uh I I been in public service most of my life and career and uh I am blessed to be here today and blessed to be in front of you. And I have to mention also uh my dear wife and my four children, our four children, two boys, two girls are all
grown up now, but uh they couldn't be here today, but uh the the ones that can watch are watching and uh they're anxiously awaiting to hear the news. Very Thank you very much. Very good. Thank you for speaking to us. Uh, Councilman Kent.
Yeah, just a a couple of comments. Um, Gustavo, welcome. And please, Gus, welcome. And um, couple of things that I I really enjoyed hearing from you. I enjoyed that this is
the closest to your dream job uh that you've wanted to have. I uh I love that you mentioned your your wife and four children again and uh and family. That core piece is important, but man, tickling my buying bone when you talked about not turning everything green into
pavement and then that fine balance. So, I I appreciate hearing that. I noticed the smile on the faces of my colleagues to the right when you said that you found your home in Port Orange. So Reinhardt and Robins and and um Jake
Johansson down there all smiling and I thought would it have killed you to just travel 11 more miles north to Orand. But my Orman friends are probably like listen you know we have enough in Orman. Yes. See I see him over there saying enough right there. Welcome Glad Glad you're here.
Thank you so much. Oh. Oh I'm sorry. I'd be remiss. I had one other thing. Council, I don't meet a lot with George. we just don't have a ton of meetings. George and I had this conversation a while back. So, my one question to
George when this came up was, and Suzanne, I'll say this publicly, I don't know that we got off to the best foot whenever I first got elected. Um, and I say that just for a little background information. I wrote George and I basically what the email said was
Suzanne's not going anywhere, right? like Suzanne is staying because she is a task master and she gets the job done and uh that's a compliment for you Suzanne. That's what that was all about. Now I'm done. Thank you.
So I got to be working for a taskmaster. Yes. Yeah, I'm ready. In high heels. Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Welcome, Gus. you. Um, and I actually when I saw your name, I did write down Gus because I could go by
Matthew and I say, "No, call me Matt." So, it is Matt, just so you know. Uh, I'm very excited to hear that you're on the east side of the county in Port Orange and even if it isn't in the District 2 part and and it even if it isn't lie and sell everybody in District 2 that you preferred over there. So,
welcome aboard. Um, George, you get tired of us calling you and is that why you had to No, I just we just know uh so we're going to have one thing we want to keep Suzanne, right? And the idea really is is uh uh
it's uh trying to cut the 60h hour work week maybe down to 55 and uh and get stuff done. So that's really we need a lot of our the projects and stuff will go through Gus. Exactly. And help us with other things, you know, covering with the cities. have I got a project for you
and for us to be out more because we'll get you know as has been noted in my evaluation uh you know to get out more and that's my intent and this helps me with that as well and and I look forward to his skill set though is going to be very
helpful because of some of the things that he's done we'll get into that uh later on but uh certainly uh uh you know P3s on some large projects that may be coming our way, he has experience as
well that we we don't have here today. I would I I definitely want to say that with Gus coming on board and Mr. Tiner, I would love the opportunity to sit down with them at some point so they know more about us. Well, that'll happen. That's important. So, um, welcome aboard. Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us. Very excited to see what what you have in store for us. Thank you for taking me. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gus, welcome aboard. Thank you. Um, happy to bring on board. You know, I did like some of the balance that that Troy said that you said. You know,
there's a balance between those two very important things. And you I one of the things I I don't tell George, but I'll say it now. He makes some good hires. He makes a lot of good hires. So clearly, you know, we're we're members of the
public elected body and, you know, we often get commentary. So to to bring on somebody like him that has that experience on both sides and balance is key. It shows that not only the commentary that we're hearing but you're hearing is a result of what a good balance the public is asking for. I
think I believe in generally not everyone but we got to do generally speaking. And you know Troy I'm the same way. I rarely speak to to George not because I don't want to. It's because he's getting the job done. Um and uh same I'll agree with your commentary on Susan taskmaster. Do you do concrete
Susan? I'll tell you the joke later. Um, but uh, sorry this is joking. Hey, I wanted to say welcome again. We keep it light here. We like fast presentations. You You'll learn that one the right way. And every meeting is Ben Bartley's birthday.
Thank you. Welcome again. Thank you. Have Have you been assigned an office yet? Yes. Did anybody give up an office? No. It was a choice office. Do I do I have an office? Where are you? It's a very small conference room next
to Suzanne. We have him down next to Suzanne and John Booker. Don't know that. Okay, let's hear. Thank you very much. We're going to hear from a member of our public now and then we will we'll vote on you. Uh Cindy Harris, Cindy Harris, District 3. I in my career
of 45 years in management and for the last 25 years traveling the state. Um I had some clients down in Dave and Myramar and Hollywood. I spent a lot of time recruiting
employees and so I took the time and I researched Mr. Zim. I'm going to butcher Gus. Um he's very qualified. I was very impressed with his LinkedIn profile and everything. What concerned me a little
bit was that I couldn't find a Facebook profile or any other social media. It was Yes. Yes. I was very impressed. Um and then I started thinking assistant county manager, he's overqualified, overqualified for that job. And then I
got here and I heard what he's going to do. I think he needs his own department to be quite honest. I really do. and I look forward to speaking with you and I can't wait to meet you and talk to you individually. And I think as a taxpayer,
I think we should actually spend the time to do that on anybody that's hired on our county staff because we're actually paying their salaries. And I think more of our citizens ought to take the time to do that and actually research who we're hiring. But giving a
4-day notice is not really enough. I think we ought to actually give a notice that, hey, we're looking for this position. We've got these candidates. If you're interested, here's their resumes. That's what I think. So, if you confirm
him, I'd like to spend a few minutes with you after the meeting if you don't mind. Thank you. And and so it begins, Gus. Okay. Uh thank you, Mrs. Harris. And um
we have a a motion and a second to confirm. Do you have anything else you wanted to say before we vote? No. Thank you. Okay. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And welcome to Valuchia County. Thank you very much.
Joy Troy's office. Okay. Uh, item five, budget resolution, state of Florida, Department of Environmental Prote. This is going to be a tough one. We have to approve the receipt of 2 million
93,000 of revenue. Move to approve. Second. Oh, go ahead. Anybody? Motion to approve uh by David Santiago and the second was by who? I I heard a number of them by Troy Kent.
Did you want to say anything? Just I want to give Mike Orick credit for going out and getting $2 million for a $4 million project that we were already going to do to increase our wastewater capacity in that area. He's good at that. Aong a long list a long list of revenue
procurements. Good job. Yes. Do you do concrete? Does he do sprinkler systems? No. He supplies the water for the sprinklers. Okay. Sometimes. Okay. Any questions from council? Uh the
motion is to approve. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And the vote is six to zero. Had one leave the room. We'll get him when he comes back. Thank you very much.
Well done. Uh item six, budget resolution for current fiscal year 2425, second midyear budget budget fund reconciliation. Uh Ryan Osowski. Good uh good evening, council. Ryan Osowski, chief financial officer. What
you have here is uh an item that we typically do at year end that this year we took on a mission to break these up into increments as we know about them. These are the transfers that we identified during the budget process. You'll see that most of them say that they were presented during the five-year
forecast as part of the estimates. Um there's one that was not part of the five-year forecast presentations, but it was in your recommended budget book. And then there's one additional one for uh that we've identified for a grant for $61. They're all interfund transfers. So they're all none of this is new
spending. It's all just moving money in between funds. And the final piece of this is authorization for an additional interfund loan from the ocean center to the parking garage uh with the terms identified in the agenda item. If you have any questions, any
questions? Second. We have a motion to approve by David Santiago and a second by flip a coin by Matt Reinhardt. Uh questions, comments? All in favor say
I. I. Any opposed Ryan, you do amazing work. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um on item seven. Okay.
You want to do it before he gets down here? Item seven is a quasi judicial hearing on a on a vacation. Um, so be uh before Tad starts, does anyone have any exparte that they need to declare?
None. And if that was anywhere and Tad, hold on one second. I need to back up to item five. Uh Danny, you were out of the room. So that makes it seven to zero on the u on the revenue
acceptance. Uh item seven, tad for a vacation. You don't need one. Don't we all? Uh, didn't he make a motion? Troy second. Y good pitch.
I've been working on it. Motion by Robin, second by Kent. Presentation was brief. Any questions? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And item seven passes unanimously. Seven to zero.
Item eight, ordinance 2025-20, amendment to chapter 72, code of ordinances regarding special exceptions. This one won't be quite so fast. Welcome. Um,
Carol McFarland, Planning and Development Services Director. This is a second reading for ordinance 2025-20. We talked about this at the last meeting. Um the council talked about needing to have
more time. This is to discuss. This is a fairly short agenda, so we'll be able to um to ease our time wisely. And um at the last meeting, it was uh recommended for approval with no changes. So, um, I
did want to talk a little bit about what is a special exception. So, we all know the the focus of this. A special exception is a land use that would not be appropriate without applying conditions to protect the public health, safety, and welfare. So, we're looking
at conditions that control the location, landscape buffer, safety mechanisms. So we have special exceptions such as borrow pits, communication towers, recreational areas and think of the special exceptions as a way to apply
like only if statements. So this use could be acceptable only if uh they don't operate or they only operate on the weekends or could be acceptable only if they don't use loudspeakers. Um in other words, you may have heard
this called checking the boxes. Um it's a special or quasi judicial hearing. So I'm sure you've heard a lot that if uh the application checks all the boxes that it's uh allowed to be approved um in the special or the quasi judicial
hearings, the council acts more as a board um applying ad uh adequate criteria to the special exceptions. So there is um you know checking all of the boxes. So the board has um in some ways
some limited abilities that if it meets all of those criteria, there's an obligation to approve it. So when we first started talking about this process a little more than a year ago, there was an idea of if we have conditions that have to be met to be approved and we all
understand what those conditions are, maybe we should just go ahead and let them be approved with a lesser standard of public hearings. So um fundamental part of our zoning ordinance is that there are three types of uses. There's uses that are approved
by staff which are permitted by right. There's conditional uses. They're very similar to special exceptions in that they have the conditions of approval, but staff approves those and there's no public hearing. And then um we do special exceptions that have two public
hearings, one with the planning commission and the second is with you guys. So what you see here is it's kind of one end or the other, right? It's approved by staff with no public hearings or it's approved by council with two public hearings. So maybe we
want to talk about a middle ground where there's maybe just one public hearing. Um, we have 137 public or special exception uses. Our zoning code was adopted in 1988. We've definitely done updates to our
special exceptions in that time. Um, but it's it's been a while, right? So, it's good time to go through all of the uses and make sure that we're applying our approvals ac adequately. Most recently, um, in I believe it was 2021, um, we removed the we we started to allow
accessory dwelling units. So, one of the biggest special exceptions uses that we saw coming in over and over again were garage apartments. So, we've and that really substantially reduced the number of special exceptions that staff processed. Um, so we're we're starting
to whittle things down. So again, I think this is a a good opportunity for staff and at the council just to look at um special exceptions over the last 10 years. Um the map shows where these uses were. They they're kind
of everywhere all throughout the county. Um we do about eight special exceptions a year and only two special exceptions have been denied in that 10-year period. And most of our special exceptions are
rural uses which of course considering our size and our land uses that makes sense. Um the top one is recreational areas. Uh we are a tourist economy just like most places in Florida. So we have
uses like paintball and hunt clubs. Um borrow pits and communication towers are also um one of the biggest uses that we process. So, when we first started this process, um, going back to February of last year,
council um, came to you guys looking for, um, kind of a philosophical approach to the ordinance and how we should structure it. Um, because we do have so many zoning classifications. It's a really voluminous ordinance. Um, so there were four key things that we
decided to um, focus the ordinance on. One was allowing staff staff authority for um uses to be approved by right if they are can be adequately controlled by using existing regulations.
The second part was allowing staff authority to approve conditional you nuisances conditional uses if there are nuisances and impacts that could be managed by the special criteria. The third one is that PLLDRC could be
the approving authority for uses that are not compatible with residences or businesses due to its impacts on property values. And lastly, that the county council authority be only used for uses that are not compatible with residential or
business uses due to life safety or quality of life concerns. Um, you've been given the the glorious spreadsheet. You should all have 11 by7s of these. And I just want to point out
as as quickly as I can because I again, we're going to be going over this for a while and I hope I know how to use this screen, right? Um, obviously the special exception uses, that's where you're going to see the 137 uses. This middle
column, these are uses that are already allowed or the zoning classifications where that use is allowed by right. So, we are not moving those. Those are staying where they are. They're just here so everyone can have a frame of reference for where what zoning
classifications it's allowed in and what zoning classifications do we want to take a look at. So the existing special exception classifications are here and these zoning classifications we're looking at changing them to these
approving bodies. So by right conditional use etc. Lovely drawing if I do say so myself. It's very difficult to get this to clear. So I'll just move on hopefully. There we go. So there's 62
uses that staff was looking at taking down to the byite category um and approved by um staff as well as conditional uses. 50 uses um will be moved to um PLLDRC approval and 25 uses
staying in the purview of the county council. So, uh, just to wrap up what this, um, purpose is, it's a widescale change to the zoning ordinance, we're going to be here a little while tonight. Um, we
don't get a lot of special exceptions. So, as far as staff's concerned, it's not like it's going to save us, you know, half of our time during the day, right? This is going to be something that only happens 8 to 10 times a year. So really the benefit is for the business owners who are coming in to get
the special exceptions can save them at least two and a half months in the approval process if not more if you start looking at all the materials and planning that goes into putting in that kind of an application. Um so with that
we're really excited to bring this ordinance forward. it is compliant with the recent Senate bill Senate Bill 180 and that there's nothing in this ordinance that um that makes anything more restrictive. This is all about
having less restrictive regulations. We did have six public workshops on this um most recent being last council meeting. So, for this discussion, we've got four questions for you guys that we
can go through the spreadsheet together and see if there are changes that you want to make. Um, I'm sure I'm sure there are. We kind of expect that with 137 uses. So, we're going to go through each category and see which ones need to
change. So, grab a drink, grab some popcorn, and uh we can go ahead and go through this. So the first question for council is what uses are you seeing um
in the spreadsheet that are listed as by right that you think should have a public hearing or have some sort of higher level of review. Okay. Thank you. Uh Councilman Robbins. Uh thank you chair. I don't have any uh
uh Carol uh by right. I just wanted to ask some kind of preliminary questions as we did last uh meeting because as I um suspected and and could count on, you know, we automatically get uh tagged for
certain things. So, I want to go ahead and put it out in the open again. So, I'm going to ask you some very direct questions. Special exceptions uh you brief briefly went over it is uh in a nutshell property that is already pretty much zoned for it as a permitted use. Correct. It's listed as a special
exception which is alongside the permitted uses in the zone. Right. Uh is there an appeal process uh with a staff level conditional use? Yes. Um the staff level conditional use um and the appeal process for the
PLLDRC, both of those go to county council. So conditional uses, if they're appealed, they don't go to PLLDRC. They would come straight to you guys. as well as the PLLDRC ones. Okay. And uh for uh PLDRC, there's
public speaking available there and an appeal process. Uh correct? Okay, good to know. Um, does any of this um by by eliminating
any of the bureaucracy uh does this uh favor or exempt uh developers, development orders, PUDs, anything like uh to that nature? Because that was one of the things that I had predicted and and it my crystal ball was
right. Uh so um can we just get a a clear answer uh for that? Uh this shouldn't have any um bearing on plan unit developments. Um we're just taking one category and putting it in
another place. So special exceptions as they exist right now don't impact plan unit developments. So it would still be the same scenario. Did did that answer? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Uh in the event we do
make some more of these conditional uses, you know, I see a lot of them the property own industrial, but we want to run them through um 10 additional processes when they have a piece of property that's properly zoned.
um for this type of scenario in the event uh that there is a complaint whether it be noise uh an air curtain uh whatever the case may be. Do we have
code enforcement to uh address that and a system in place for enforcement action to maintain um u a healthy situation for those uh instances? Uh we do we have code enforcement staff
now um that deal with these kind of complaints anyway. You know, we get a lot of businesses that move or expand and they don't think to check, you know, all of the regulations in the local area. So, you know, we have a a fairly robust code enforcement system, but it
is by complaint. Um staff does no not go out looking for issues. We don't do drivebys checking to see if anything bad is happening. It's purely based on neighbor complaint. Okay. And uh when somebody is buying a
piece of property, uh I know the answer to this, but is there a way for people to look this information up? For instance, if they say, "Hey, my neighbor might have backyard chickens. I don't like backyard
chickens. I don't want to live." Is there a is there a means for our constituency to look this up? Uh or is it readily available? um they definitely have a way to look this up. Um so if you're looking to buy a property and you're in your due
diligence period, you can of course access our zoning map on our web page and you can also access our code on municode.com where you can look at your zoning classification and see what uses are listed as permitted or special exception. Um we also even though the
conditional uses and the approved by staff, they're not public hearings, so they don't get public notifications. So, if you're trying to do a chicken coupe, backyard chickens, your neighbor is not going to get a certified letter of it. Um, but what you can do is we do have an interactive map again on our website
where you can see all of the permits that are on a certain property. So, you don't get that notice, but it's very easy to find out what's happening. So, people are able to do their own research where government doesn't have to or they don't have to hold government's pocket every step of the
way. There's a Okay. Correct. Um, that's it for now. Thank you. Uh, I just have a couple general questions. First, if on on the green on the what is currently special exceptions,
um, somebody comes in and they want to buy a build circus headquarters. It's one of them on the list. Um, right now it has to be approved by a special exception which means going through PLDRC and the council or just staff.
It's both. So all of the special exceptions that you guys have reviewed were first reviewed by the planning commission. Right. How does that occur under by right? Somebody comes in and says I'm going to put a a circus headquarters in
I1 and we just say okay. Um, so it would be what's called a change of use. Um, so if you're going from a vacant property, let's start with vacant land and you want to build a cir circus headquarters, there are again
existing land development regulations that if you're going to cut trees down, you need a tree permit. If you're going to um be digging holes or putting in fill, then you need storm water. Um, and those are things that apply to all of
our uses. So, if you're developing the land um under certain thresholds, there are permits that you have to get now. Um does that is that close to answering your question? Oh. So, so if that's from vacant to one use, if you're changing
from an existing use to another existing use, we would be looking at the thresholds of how many trees are you taking down, how big is the storm water pond, and that handles the review on the staff level. Um,
so all those requirements still apply. Exactly. By rate doesn't mean that you don't have to do anything. You just told us what you're going to do. Go do it. Right. Well, yeah. It means you have to come in and get permits from staff, right? Okay. I think there's some some misunderstanding about that. But
there is I keep getting a note from my because the monitor is broken. His his screen isn't working. You can't tell who wants to speak. Um uh I think the public has a concern that
and I happen to to agree and in fact I think I have eight items that I would like to just quickly list and I I would like to see them move from a buy rate back to either at the very least to to PLDRC preferably to PLLDRC and and county
council but the the public's looking at this and saying look we we we know there's zoning we have zoning in place to that gives us the first layer of protection. But then we have you that we elect on the county council because sometimes things change in zoning areas.
We've seen that here on this council and we would like to have you the the people that we can hold accountable, our elected uh representatives to have that last look at it and say, "Yeah, this still this is still good here." I I happen to agree with them on that. Um,
and so I'm just going to list real quick the eight concerns that I have. Um, um, and I can I can tell everybody why when I'm done if if you want, but it's it's animal hospitals, bars and
liquor stores, circus headquarters, farmworker living facilities. Um, Mr. I almost said I almost said Jim can I just suggest something so that we can help it help maybe achieve what you want to if we can just
do one by one and then maybe make your You want to do that now? Okay. That way we can say yeah we agree with you or not agree and move on to the next one. Okay. Animal hospitals and here's my my concern. I'm not against animal hospitals, but um I've had to use them. And I know sometimes
animal hospitals it it require it it it's a lot of traffic sometimes late at night if it's an emergency room. And I I think maybe surrounding uh businesses, neighborhoods might like a little extra protection on that than just by right.
Anybody else have a any pause on that one or everybody's good with it? I'm actually with what you said because we have one in our neighborhood that had just opened up and you're right, the traffic issue was right on US1 and it it increased tremendously late at night. So, you are correct. I I would agree
with you on that, chairman, if I may. Yes. Um, animal hospitals. I see uh just the zoning classifications here. I don't believe it's a a blanket. So, if you look at the zoning classifications,
you'll see A1, A2, which are uh large lots, commercial agriculture design properties, right, that are already pre-zoned uh in preparation for um traffic or commercial farm
operations. So, it wouldn't really divert um much of anything in my opinion. Then you go on to the additional zoning of classification. industrial one that's the high and I2 those are the highest traffic and uses
uh I mean out there the the highest uh properties out there which you know we all kind of supported a few meetings ago and even last meeting and then to MH3 is a mobile home park I know that there's some MH3 left I know we've tried to
phase it out over the last uh 20 years in the county that I know of but also two mobile homes in those zoning classifications. Those are high traffic zoning classifications uh when when it comes to that. So, uh I I don't think
it's out of the the ordinary cheer based on the zoning classifications and what their intended uses are are already assigned. What's FR? Uh I believe forestry resource. Oh, okay. And what's the the minimum uh uh acreage is 20 25?
20. So, if you if you take some of our uh rural settings and our properties are are zoned uh sizewise uh and and already zoned for it, it it's you can't really compare it to a more urban setting uh in
my opinion. So, you know, when I look at at all these uh chair and council, um it's just another another hoop. Uh so that that's my uh two cents. Matt, were you describing your because
you had me on the traffic piece and and and I was going that way, but but are you are you in a more urban setting? Is that okay? So that wouldn't apply to these classifications. Yeah. I mean, I was going there, but once I hear the designations of the of
the property sizes, I think we could just leave it the way it is in my proposal. Mr. Mr. Chairman, that's my thoughts. Okay. Any other thoughts? Everybody else is comfortable with it. Just leaving it as is. Okay. Okay. Bars and liquor stores.
Just just to clarify, chair, we're leaving that one as is. I just proposed. Well, that's the proposed. Yeah. I'm not I'm not sure how I'll how I'll vote yet. I'm trying to get the sense of the council and the sense of the council is leave that by right. How about we just vote on it right one
by one and keep moving along if does that make sense or Oo, why don't we just and then we got to vote for all 180 of them or whatever. Yeah, we we want to get through the, you know, the A's and the B's. But yeah,
eliminate any confusion. Yeah, I think whatever we amend, Danny, or or we agree to, we'll just vote on that and let it fall where it may. Sounds good. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As a group, because right now I'm outnumbered on on that one. I still have a concern u with
it, but I'm trying to get the sense of the council. bars and liquor stores for the uh same reason. I just think we need to be the last uh defense for that for the public. Carol,
can you explain to us what B3, B4, and B5 uh are the these aren't like RR A uh in and some of our So these properties are designed for, and correct me if I'm wrong, tell me what B3 is.
Uh B3 and B4 are general commercial. B5 is a what's called highway commercial. See it on thoroughares. So those where where it's allowed by right under the B8 that is the tourist business area and
then you'll see the OCV and the OMV are um zoning classifications in Ostein. That's the Ostein core village and the Ostein mixeduse village. So this wouldn't allow in your opinion um a bar to be put in a neighborhood off
of Mattown Ostein Road. uh the second left and the third gate on the right. Uh look for the moonshine still. That wouldn't happen, right? Yeah. These are uh those three B8, OCV, and OMV are commercial zoning districts. Okay. What is OUR?
Ostein, urban residential. Okay. Right. Okay. I got it. Mr. Chairman, just for clarification with me, I just are are you suggesting just any bars and liquors, regardless of where they're at, they should come to us? Is that what you're proposing?
Uh yes. To go through at least PLLDRC just so that there's public comment on it. A lot of these if it's by right there's no public comment allowed. So we're not giving uh the public any opportunity to say how this affects them
or not. And I I just think that's part of our responsibility. I I want to try to get there if I could, Mr. Chair. Um, just so I understand what we we're proposed on the paper here. If if we leave it the way as proposed,
if I'm understanding this correct, the the section that says B8, OCV, only those classifications would be required to have a special exception. Correct. The B8, OCV, and OMV. So the B3, B4, B5, SWC, the Southwest activities by right, according to this,
those are by right now. And we actually uh can't change those. That would be inconsistent with Senate Bill 180. That would be adding more restrictions if we wanted to take the B3, B4, and B5 to a public hearing or conditional use. So, it's um
so it's only the ones in the third G. It's only the the B8, OCV, and OMV, but that still would require a special exception. The byite would no longer be a special exception. Okay. Okay. I Okay. I wanted to make sure I was accurate there, Mr. Chair. So, and B8 is what? I know I'm sounding
repetitive. Sorry. Tourist commercial. So, lots of hotel areas and how how many parcels? I mean, I've never seen a B8. Um I know there's some tourism areas right there at across from
the flea market, but those are in the city of Daytona. Um but I it's like one of these things where uh I'll let you go ahead. Sorry. Yes. Uh my my uh encyclopedia, my walking encyclopedia says that's in the
North Peninsula area on the beach. Yeah, Troy. Um that's in what they're saying is in your district. Do you have um I don't want to do something that's going to potentially hurt. Uh,
I don't like laws, but I don't I don't want to um sandbag you either. You know, I just I see this stuff and and chairman, I respect your your your your views on on on this, but um I mean B8, it's a business tourist area if it
complements an area and it's already zoned for it. But yeah, there's tons of of if my recollection is correct up in Norman Beach, there's tons of B8 zoning up on A1A. Um there's also some residential
zoning up there. So, it's interesting what can what can and cannot be allowed. Um and that goes with not not only businesses, but then with um short-term rentals, things like that, you know, it it it ties in as well. So,
I've just been one that I've advocated, you know, like if I I don't live on A1A. I live 1400 feet from the Atlantic Ocean. So, I'm not in a B8 commercial zoning district. I'm in a residential district. And if you buy a house on A1A, you very well could buy a house in a business district and someone
could purchase that property and turn that home into a business because that's the right, that's the land use, that's what it is. I'm big into that. I'm big into like, you know, the land use is what it is. So, it's fitting. It wouldn't be out of the ordinary and you bought into it. It would not be out of the out of the ordinary. B8 would
not be out of the ordinary. So, just for clarification, if I could, Mr. Chair, so for clarification from me, would you be okay with just accepting this proposal for the B8 to be by right or do you want it to go to PLDRC for bars or liquor
stores? you know, you're you're talking to a guy who's always um it's always gone to our planning board or now PLDRC and then to the commission and now at council. That's what I've always known. Um I also
in the back of my head I'm remembering us our first two months together giving staff their marching orders and saying we need to be more efficient and effective. We need to be streamlined. So I'm being very cognizant of that as well. Um, you know, I'm not one of those
that the sky is falling. We're giving staff, you know, uh, an open-ended ability to ruin our area. There are fearmongers that are going to do that and going to preach that and put that out there. I'm just I don't think that's the case.
So, you'd be okay accepting this recommendation here? Okay. Thank you. I I I'll take uh Troy's lead on that. Okay. And I'm Troy. I'm not trying to uh join the fearmonger crowd. I'm try Right now, these are allowed by
special exception. And we haven't had a problem. If we go by right, the public has has no opportunity to voice an opinion on it. if it's next to their house or next to their business or whatever. I I'm just trying to protect
the public to give them the ability to to be able to speak up about it and that can be done with a PLDRC meeting. Yeah. And chairman, I I want to clarify, not that I need to, but I I want to clarify. I was not putting you in that category of fear-mongering. I got to I
got to tell you, I feel like this entire council, whatever this not last year has happened, we've been working more cooperatively together. I don't feel like there have been jabs back and forth. I want you to know publicly that was not towards you, but there are are comments and things I've seen in the community that I feel like it's it's
fear-mongering, but I certainly hear what you're saying about at least allowing this to go to Okay. PLLDRC uh so that the public can can have a a comment on it, but also in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about the majority of this council saying we want to
streamline the process. We do, and I agree with that. I think there's 52 of them in green. I'm talking about eight things that I have a a question about. So, so far the animal hospitals, bars, and liquors, the the majority of the council seems uh fine.
And I don't say that in a disparaging way. That's how it's coming out here. Circus headquarters. Is Ostein okay with having a circus headquarters? Have they anybody from Ostein? We have uh members of the Ostein community on our PLDRC board. They they
did a a pretty close magnifying glass look at the the Ostein categories. Um and that one was not discussed as needing to move. We um don't have any circus headquarters. I've never had a request uh for a circus headquarter.
Something that we did way way way back in the the olden days. Was it Barnum? CL Baman Bailey was actually out in um west of Dand by Sunreil. We we have a member of Ostein on the
PLDRC and she was uh I mean she's she's in touch with the residents of Ostein. She had no problems with us. So, um, the recommendations for changes from
the PLLDRC, which she was a member of, are shown in red on this. Okay. There's just there's none on the first page. If's okay with it, then I I'm just trying to make sure that they're being heard. Can I can I ask for a clarification question? I'm I'm kind of
I I asked inside my brain and then Suzanne says something. I'm I'm looking at the front page where it says circus headquarters by right I1 I1. Yeah. Is that Ostein only? That is not in Ostein. That so why are we worrying about what O
thinks about there is some I1 in Ostein that's existing. Gotcha. Yeah. But it's not in the the O categories which is um where the local plan is. There's also some um there's I1 elsewhere too. Right. There is. Yeah. I think there's a cutout
from the local plan, a little donut hole where there's some I1. I got you. Okay. Thank you. And thank you. Farm worker living facilities. Sure. Which which page is that on? Chairman, it's still on first page threequarters
of the way down. Farmworker living facilities special criteria. And the the reason I bring this up is I've been involved in one before with a cut foliage company and and uh it it greatly affected the surrounding
uh neighborhood in in an A1 situation. Which one are you on, Mr. Chair? Farm workers living facilities. First page is and it's on the first page still. And again, every one of these, my concern is that if we go by rate, the public has no
opportunity to voice their concerns or opinions on it. And we do have special exceptions for those from time to time who have processed those in the last 10 years. But this moves it all to by right. Correct. Chair for I actually agree that you
would that it would go to PLR or PLRDC on that one. Well, I agree with the chairman on that one. I actually I I'd be okay with that one also too, Mr. Chair, of having to at least go to PLDRC on that one. Don, did you have some?
Unless somebody changes my mind, but I I have three names up. I'm still not sure what which one of these you're on, so I'll just I'll go down the road and give everybody a chance. Don, you were just calling them. I don't know if Danny was ahead of me, though. I don't want to cut. Go ahead. Go ahead, Don. Uh well, it says what exactly is the number of units
specified per parcel size? That is over here. Scott Scott Ashley, zoning manager. Um it's based on your acreage. You get one uh if I recall one for every five acres of property, one unit, farmwork living
unit. And how big is the uh the size of this one unit? Um it has to be at least uh I think 720 ft.
So we're talking about one 720t dwelling per 5 acres. Yes, sir. The larger property you have, the more units you can get. And so A2 is one for five, right? That's a five acre parcel. That's the minimum. Yes. A1 is two acres. I mean 10
10 acres. 10 acres. So you get two dwellings. Forestry reserve is 20 acres. 20 acres. Yes. Mr. Ashley, I don't want to interrupt it. That 720 ft. That's a minimum. That's the minimum. Is there a max?
Sorry, Mike. No, it's fine. No max. So you could build a How many families are limited per unit or people? So each single family residence uh
residential unit has um six unrelated people can live together as one family. And guys, my concern is I mean we're all about workforce housing. I mean that seems to be the trend. and why not have
the actual farmer pay for the housing as opposed to the taxpayers? So, I don't know if we want to limit the number of people per dwelling, but I I'm I'm really in favor of doing this by right because we are trying to be less restrictive. I mean, if anything, we got to help the farming community and I want
to be more attractive to farmers. I'd rather them come here looking to set up some sort of industry as opposed somewhere else. So, I'd like to I don't know if I necessarily want to see it as an unlimited size dwelling, but it would be nice to allow certain amount of
housing by right and if we can agree on that as opposed and something to consider to probably make meet a middle ground chair. We approved um garage apartments I believe as buy too, right? So I think
accessory dwelling units ADUs that were 50%. Chairman I I feel a lot like like Don we either subsidize it or we allow it. We we're all promoting agriculture for obvious reasons uh in in the county. I think this would add to
it. I do see some concerns but again they're they're large parcels that are designed for that commercial agricultural use whether it's people or whether it's machinery combines whatever the case is. Um, but chairman, I'd be
open to put a if we have to, uh, just like our ADUs, so we can do it 50% of the, uh, primary overall square footage. Is that something we'd be able to do as a maximum to
I'll let the attorney answer that need a middle? You know what I'm saying? Good news. I'm taking it out of your hands. Um, so this bill, uh, there was a bill passed this legislative session. It's SB700. It is the FDAX bill. So, it's got a preeemption specifically on
farmworker housing. Um, and what it does is it preempts local governments. Um, and it has a lot of well, it's and but it it sets up its own criteria. So, for example, um, and this is something we don't do. So it says okay local
governments you're preempted but here are the new standards. The dwelling must meet health safety uh you know life health safety provisions. Housing must be maintained in a neat and orderly manner. All structures must be located 10 ft apart. You know square footage of the housing may not exceed 1.5% of the
property's area. Housing site must provide you know setbacks front rear side of 50 feet. Um and then you know it can't be located within 100 ft of the property line. It has to have screening or masonry wall. Um you can adopt you
can adopt less restrictive uh provisions but they still need to meet department of health provisions. Um uh so so uh and the housing site must be removed if they're ever if they ever come in violation. um if it's not being used for
legal legal verified agricultural uh housing for more than 365 days, if the property loses his agricultural designation, if their department of health permit is revoked, um or if it's occupied by a person who is not a
legally uh legally verified agricultural worker. So, and then the property owner is subject to increasing fines. So there's there's a new Florida bill that came effect this July regarding farmworker housing. So you can go less
restrictive than the uh the state um on those specific standards, but the use if they have their agricultural designation would be allowed. Does it does it mention um who's who's up right now? Okay. Can I let me just ask a quick
question on that list? Is because I didn't hear it. Maybe I missed it. Is there anything about verified um citizens potentially? Um they that'll that'll probably be a ver a um legally verified
agricultural worker. I think that is an existing system that allows uh workers to uh farmers to sponsor certain members. Um so I don't think so I don't think it's a it's a citizenship requirement.
It is a um you know you are here legally but there is there's a you are verifying that they are active you might be on a visa. Did you have a question? Yeah just a quick question Paulo I I assume because you mentioned the health department they're the ones that are doing the inspection process for that monitoring it.
You said clean and tidy. Yes. And I'm curious just how often them and FDAX. Um not entirely sure. They probably have to craft specific rules for the health department and spec specific rules for FDAX. Thank you. Thank you, chair.
Okay. Uh Danny, your name's still up. Did you get I you know, I think he took took the wind out of everyone's sales there. I was ready to talk about the next one. Dempsey. Yeah. Paulo, um would mobile homes count
towards um would they qualify under this or does it have to be a brick and mortar? I'm not sure because it needs to meet as long as the mobile home meets federal uh housing standards because mobile homes are, you know, they're issued that uh
certification from HUD, they don't get your standard building permit. They're they are kind of a vehicle because they're on a chassis, a movable chassis. So, you know, if they are permitted under the federal regulations by HUD, um, potentially, yes, they could be used
as a, you know, plus it said Plus, it said if they're not if they're not kept tidy or the people aren't aren't qualified, it is to be removed, right? So, that's why I'm wondering if remove Yeah. I'm wondering if we're qualifying mobile
homes as uh acceptable under this Yes. Yes. Ordinance. What's MH3? That is specifically in the zoning class zoning code. Yeah. MH3 is mobile homes, right? But on A1, could you put a mobile home? Yes. Yeah. Uh I think we made a change
around two, three years ago. Well, A1's allowed mobile homes for a long time. We also added it to the A2 and the A3 and the A4. Okay. Here's Mike. I live in an agriculture community and
maybe more than nine times out of 10 this isn't a problem. There's mobile homes that that fern companies put workers in. Nobody even knows they're there. But sometimes there's drug problems, there's crime problems,
there's noise problems, you know, loud music till 3:00 in the morning or whatever and then the neighbors have no recourse. I would like to have the neighbors have a recourse. uh beforehand because I don't think anybody goes in and checks any of it for
cleanliness or any. In fact, unless something's changed, I can tell you it hasn't because I've been have seen some serious problems with agricultural companies that provided it and had major issues. So,
so are we discussing the consensus of PLDRC for this one or not? Yes. Yeah. So, so my comment on that is that that going to PLRDC is not going to judge who
moves into that home and how loud they are. It it does give the neighbor an opportunity to say, "I don't want you to be loud." Right? But, oh, okay, I won't be loud and then I'm loud. And and that happens.
It's not just here. It's any neighbor can be loud, obnoxious, uh work on their cars till 2:00 at night. Um um and no no PLRDC and and no uh elective body is going to going to be able to control
that. If it's not if if we do it at that group, it might not be the next one. So I I don't know how how other than giving people an outlet to complain, which there's a right to. Um, well, let me ask you, you may be right.
And so, clarify this. If it goes to PLDRC, can't they put uh, yeah, you can do this, but you got to turn your music off at 11 or you got to Absolutely. You have to have certain standards. We have standards in code enforcement
and noise statutes right now. We already have a law that tells you you can't do noise. So, why do we put a law in on top of the law saying we don't have noise? That's my point. We everything that people are concerned about, trash,
parking, any any rule that we already have, any noise rule, we already have smoking dope, doing meth, those are all illegal activities that are addressed in other laws. I it's a concern of the neighbor most
definitely but we already say that when we have these discussions that it's already Apollo is always it's addressed by law. It's addressed by law. Um so um we're I think we're in the same boat here. Uh
unfortunately or fortunately Mr. code enforcement. Does it does it give you does it help any at all to have a special condition put on something than just with the the laws that we do have that Jake's talking about?
Yeah. So, the approving body of a special exception is uh it has an obligation in fact to apply conditions that will help the application to meet um the intent of the code and the comprehensive plan. So there there are
times where we talk about conditions for things that don't happen in other circumstances, right? Like um I don't want to pull out individual projects, but um you know, like some of the recreational areas that we've had lately, we've had limits to the number
of dogs that could be on site at one time. That's not something that's necessarily in our code, but in order to beat the code um and the public health safety and welfare um we can add those. The PLDRC can add those to a special
exception. So if it's by right, you only have to meet what's in the code already. Mr. Chair, if I could add to that just to kind of clarify, especially I I get where you're going. And I think we've done that in the past, but for for purposes of this particular topic, in this particular category, what
additional conditions could we add or possibly add that are not already covered like what Jake said in our ordinances that are already I'll just use the term illegal, right? So, what I I'm trying to find a way to thread that needle, but what could we potentially
add to a um what is it called farm whatever it's called? Farm worker living facility. I don't know, David. I take it one step further, chairman, just so we could try to accommodate you better. What What conditions um you know, you listed noise, crime, check for
cleanliness. I'd hate for someone to visit my son's room after a long weekend of fishing. Uh but um I I I get it. and right to privacy and you know the constitution. What what conditions chair
are not addressed that you're concerned about that we can possibly help you with? Well Jake just said all of these are already in place all these conditions. I just asked the question, does it give code enforcement any extra authority to
uh when they get a call about the about music at 3:00 in the morning, which is not uncommon, um does it give us any extra authority or is the sheriff we just call the sheriff and he's got to go out there or not? as
as a byite. Um it would not have any additional conditions that aren't already on the books now. Okay. And but Danny's asking me what other conditions could we add to to make it um I was just asking and I don't know if there are any. So
that's why I say I think it's important that the public gets to have at least one bite of the apple and and say um you know this has been a problem in the past here or not. Um, so,
um, Matt Reinhardt, you had a question. Yeah, I did, Chair. I was looking up, um, back in 2021, House Bill 883, which made it mandatory for, uh, individuals that were reporting code enforcement issues to give their name and address
and made it public. We fell, we saw, and I worked code enforce murder prior to coming to council, we saw a a dramatic drop in those that were reported. So, if we make that condition, I guess maybe I'm getting a little bit too much in the weeds, but it may be applicable to later
conversations about this. Um, if somebody from the public is there and said, "Hey, listen. I want a condition that the noise level be kept or whatever, like we're saying, and the PLRD PLRDC says this is the condition." And then they they say they violated
that condition. Are they going to go right back to the PLRDC and say, "Hey, they violated your condition." or are they gonna have to go to code enforcement? They're going to not go to code enforcement because they don't want to give their name because it's a neighbor. Correct. That is correct. Um code enforcement
complaints have to give their name. Exactly. Unless it's an environmental unless they're safety. Well, their name still has to be given, but their address is protected. It can be protected. But what I'm saying is that may not really accomplish anything
by going to code of enforce cuz they're not going to go to code of enforce if if they go to PL PL if I'm saying if they go to P it's on the record then they're going to they're going to I get it. I get it. I'm just saying I I don't I don't even see them reporting it then to be quite honest. Then it's not big that big enough of an
issue. But at the end of the day though, we're just trying to cut the red tape down. I understand. um you know so there's there's things in place uh um it's no different than any other complaint that
that we get. We have uh um processes or Carol I know we we've done certain things too like um hey let's try this out for a year like the canines hey you have a you guys better be on your best behavior we're or we're taking this you
know do we still have that right to do that or does staff have that right to say hey um no that would if it was by right we would not have that the special exceptions do have a provision in the code that if there is a code violation
on the property on the special exception use that the zoning enforcement official who you just uh appointed tonight would be able to revoke the special exception and make them go back to I did also learn um just little things that you learn every day that we
actually don't have to call it PLDRC we can just call it the planning commission good job I just got used to PLDRC council I don't have a problem with with leaving it by right. Everything uh seems to be enforcable and we have uh methods to enforce it. So,
uh Don Dempsey, is that a new Well, no. Yeah, I just I agree with Danny um and Jake. We already have uh laws in place to to regulate this stuff. If we have a place where controlled sub, I know you were saying drug houses and stuff like that. Anybody who maintains a
a place like that is actually subject to Florida statute 82310 which makes it a thirdderee felony to monitor something like that. So, you know, there's that outlet and we also have nuisance uh 823.01 all nuisances that tend to annoy the
community um or corrupt the public morals are misdemeanors of the second degree. So there's criminal liability if you're maintaining um a situation that's annoying the neighboring property. So that's in place. And you can also as a
citizen if you're not satisfied with the sheriff's reaction to whatever the situation might be or you're upset with the county, you can still file a a civil injunction against that neighbor and to prevent their conduct. So there is recourse. My goal is to make I agree
with Danny. Um, I want to make the agricultural environment more welcoming to to farmers. And so, and we also have to be careful. And Paulo, I don't know if you're here, but we have that uh right to farm act that basically says
you can't classify certain things as nuisances. So, I don't know if this is going to vi violate SP 180 if we start regulating farm activity. I don't know if you've researched that or not. I'm not wellversed. So that's that's in the right to farm act different. Um for the right to farm
act uh basically it says you know farms that are have existing farms that are have been in operation for one year um cannot be declared a nuisance. So um so to the extent that you know one you know
regulation on farms on bonafide agricultural property you know there's more than just the right to farm act. It just basically says they are exempt from building codes and all county codes except for the flood plane. So that's essentially let farmers farm is is the
rule. Um for the farmworker housing, you know, the state preempts it when it is a bonafide farm that is, you know, classified as agriculture. Um so whether you leave it by um you know approved by
PLDRC or by county council um you know this the the the new statute says that government entity may not adopt or enforce any legislation, regulation or ordinance to inhibit the construction or installation for this type of housing. Um so you know that's kind of the the
the check on any type of special exception. And I don't think it specifically says you can't do that, but it says don't use it to inhibit the construction. You can condition some things in the special exception itself. Um, but you can't start adding new um,
uh, regul restrictions in the ordinance. Um, because that runs into a bunch of other things such as SB180. It starts to become a more burdensome restriction. Now that's a part of your land development regulation. But you can leave it as a special exception. Um, and
then so long as it's not inhibiting the construction, put in some conditions on there. So, we've been preempted on it, but we So, we can't say no, but we can put some special conditions. Yes. Yes.
That doesn't affect construction. Oh, okay. That that actually makes sense. um there doesn't seem to be a a taste for that. Again, my my my whole purpose in this is that I think we're robbing the
public of any input at all in what happens in in their in rural neighborhoods in in their community. The the last two I have are are really could be really detrimental. poultry farms. One of the most toxic,
smelly, horrible thing. I mean, I'm talking about an enclosed poultry farm that um they're uh page two, poultry farms and then pulp and paper manufacturing drive-th through Banell
um or Putinham, I'm sorry, excuse me, Benell through Putinham. I mean, both of those things, the neighbors far and wide need to be able to have a a say in that, I think. Um,
chairman, for the the pulp and the uh paper, would you consider that an industrial use? Uh, yeah. Yeah, I think it is an industrial use. Okay. U because it's okay. Because it's I know it's listed as as I too, but it's
not by right now. We're moving it to to buy right so nobody has any say on it but I mean think of whole road but it's an industrial use and it's an industrial area and if you really want to stretch it too pulp and and wood is
also to a uh uh and logging is is a uh a egg product you know a farm product so uh it's you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't a poultry farm I okay I don't think so no but you see what I'm saying though No, I don't. Oh, well.
So, go go go ahead and say it. It's an industrial use. Yep. Where else would we like to have it? We can't put it in RR in our neighborhoods. We can't put it in in in A1, A2, A3. We can't put it in MH3. It's it's in an industrial. It's
not like we're putting it out of somewhere that it shouldn't be anyway. That's the whole point. Again, think of think of whole road. It's industrial. Um, I don't think it should just be uh open-ended that anything can come here. I think that we
should have some control in our county of what happens in our county. Do we want certain kinds of industrial I so right now you'd have to get a special ex exception this if we move this it's by right we can have a
so I'll give you a perfect example a highly to toxic poultry farm or a pulp manufacturing. So, there's a a a pulp in manufacturing right by Sunday Road on 44. There's probably 8 to 10 homes within several hundred feet of it in my
district. Not one complaint, right? It's right along the major highway. Um, good. Homes are next to it. Poultry farms. I kind of feel like Don, um, in order for that business to be profitable, you need a big piece of land. No, you don't.
But I'm farm. you don't, but that's okay. Excuse me, Jeff. Thank you. Um and and and I I grew up on a farm with several hundred head of cattle. Okay. And and all that stuff as well. So, just just staying on on on task here. Um I'm
supportive of whatever we can do uh agriculturally. And where's poultry farms at? It's halfway down on page two. And a poultry farm, I I didn't read your description of it, but a poultry farm that I'm talking about is looks like a
greenhouse to the somebody riding by. It's not a lot of land. It doesn't It's just the opposite. It's packing 6,000 birds in 300 square ft and it's horrible. I I I And I don't want to just I agree, chair, if that's actually the case, but I'm
looking at forestry is 25 acres. I'm looking at A2. How how big of property is A2? Five acres. Okay. So that's a big piece. How about A3? That's scratched out. Scratched out. That's all scratched out as far as Yeah. So if I can, the poultry farms are
a little nuanced because we had PLLDRC um did not want to um they wanted to leave FR as by right. That's good. So when where you see it scratched out, A2, A3, A4, MH3, and OCR,
those categories, the A2 to the OCR, those are in the county council approval category. Will they still come to us? Correct. Everywhere except for the FR, right? Yeah. How big is FR? 20 acres.
20 acres. I think that's farms with that clarity. Yeah. Well, maybe I misunderstood. It was trying to eliminate some of that. So, I don't agree with only FR trying to which FR is one. If anything, you just
buy two A1s and that's you. I mean, we're expanding it, not contracting it. So, it would be make it on 20 acres instead of 10. 10's already by right. But here we complain about we we complain about eggs, but we want to regulate tell them that we we don't want any poultry farms.
Exactly. Is that No, I I I didn't say that. Just to clarify, I didn't say I don't want any poultry farms. I want real poultry farms. I don't I don't I've I've been affected by one of these. My family owned 30 acres next to a farm that was 40 acres and put two greenhouse
poultry farms. They sold the property. My family had to sell the property and move because it was it was so toxic. It was making everybody sick in the neighborhood. So that's to me that's not a poultry farm. chickens should be able to run around and express their chickenness.
So the definition of a poultry farm is for 100 fowl or more. So it's wow it can be a little bit smaller scale than I think what you're describing. Okay. So Mr. Chairman, I wanted to ask you if
if it's FR only, what does that change your opinion because it's only affecting FR? 20 acres 20 acres 20 25 I don't know if it changed your opinion I'm trying to understand it it doesn't but you know it it doesn't change mine because I've been involved
with it with 30 acres and it was it was unbearable you couldn't breathe to go outside so it help I'm trying to thread the needle just so you know my goal so if it was 30 acres the intent here is you kept saying that you wanted the public to be able to say something so
so in that scenario I'm just trying to play that out the neighbors come in and say, "I don't want a poultry farm." That's it. No poultry farm. Happens now at PLDRC or county council. They can come in. They have an opportunity to express their um their
position to either us as elected or PLLDRC as one of the busiest boards in the county. If we do this by right, they don't have a voice. And in that process of getting this um remind me, I know there's different
steps. Is it quite judicial processor oriented you know certain boxes that need to be checked legally uh for a vote a yes or no right the by right um can still have conditions on it in the sense that there
are existing regulations um and we do have some very specific code zoning code requirements for specific uses um let me let me stop you there because I want to hone in my question clearly because I'm trying figure out it stays
whatever it goes to PLLDRC this and some concerns were expressed um we got this farm that wants to come now couple neighbors come out say I don't want it cuz I'm not going to like the smell that's what I think I kind of heard right um is that a category for the
governing body to determine in their way to give this person that request or not you know what I'm talking about right yes that is what in the scenario that you outlined yes the uh planning commission would be able to add conditions that are in addition to what
the code already requires to satisfy that specific complaint. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So, if I were a planner working on that, you know, scenario, um I may say something about well have increased setbacks to where a neighbor's house is
or to add I don't know if there's anything to take smell away or to add some sort of obstruction. You're saying they can do that if it goes to by right? If it if it goes to public hearing. Public hearing, which is not by right. Correct. So by right, you wouldn't be able to put
in some of those conditions. Is correct. Okay. I must ask for something to clarify. Miss uh McFarland, under the the the green belt, right? Florida Statute 1633162 subsection 3. A government entity may
not exercise any of its powers to adopt, enforce any ordinance, resolution, regulation, rule, or any policy to prohibit, restrict, regulate, or otherwise limit an activity of a bonafide farm operation on land classified as aggro land pursuant to
1934. So if it's a a bonafide agricultural establishment, why are we even talking about? So that provision applies if they're compliant with best management practices, right? And so they have to show us that what is does best management practices to
override the standard counting rules, you know, is there a conflict between the BMPs and like a setback provision? Sure. If so, you know, we, you know, we step back and say, okay, all right, that's fine. But under under that, you know, condition, the the property appraiser
looks at that to make sure that everything is BMPPS. I wouldn't suspect someone is going to have 600 chickens for a hobby. Um, it's going to be a bonafideed farm, which we can't do a darn thing about anyway if they meet the criteria. So, why are we here?
This is this is a a very appropriate it's a chicken and the egg scenario. Um, to get that bonafideed farm classification, they have to show it's a commercially viable thing. And to one of the criteria, not the only criteria, but one of the things that the property appraiser looks at is are you adequately
zoned? Is this, you know, is the local government? Is this use kind of allowed? You know, it's it's one criteria. So that it's kind of, you know, which one goes first? Is it the ad classification by the property appraiser or is it the, you know, yes, you can do this under the
existing local government zoning. Um, so you know, a lot of our farmers, you know, they they They're like, "Well, I want to get my ad classification, but you know, this your zoning says I can't do this particular thing until, you
know, I get my ad classification." So, so that's that's kind of what we what we No, I I I I understand it. But, you know, if they I just see it, you know, if if someone's going to go to that extent of getting making that type of investment, it's going to be for commercial agriculture, which falls
under um the the statute and the requirements and BMP and all that stuff. So, J, I I do see what you're saying, but it's a it's a tough spot, too, because we we we we need these things, right? Um,
and really you should think about, okay, what if there isn't a BMP for this type of farm activity? You know, what is if there's nothing from the USDA or FDAX or um, you know, Department of Health that regulates a specific aspect of a farm.
It's chickens, though. This is not a new uh species or subspecies. This just didn't happen. Uh, we're talking about chickens, same as we're talking about cows or hogs, you know. So again, um I'm beating a dead horse here.
Okay. So, uh Don Dempsey. Yeah. Um just Apollo, if you could stay up there, though. I mean, it it sounds like if we leave this as is that there's no remedy for the neighbors, and there is a remedy in in your scenario, chair, I'll bet you dollars to donuts that they
didn't go to the courts to get an injunction. No. Well, they could have, but they didn't. But, well, I'm sure they didn't because people don't do it. It amazes me how people have, you know, after the hurricanes, I mean, my neighbors, they're all out burning, you know, tree
limbs. And so, my whole neighborhood, depending on the wind, I smell smoke around the clock for weeks as people are I mean, that just comes with the neighborhood. And, you know, if if this is a if this is a nuisance though, you have recourse. Even if this is by right,
there's still recourse. It's a criminal. In your scenario, it's a secondderee misdemeanor. So, all nuisances that tend to annoy the community or affect or injure the health of the citizens, it's a second degree misdemeanor. I don't know if you ever
called the sheriff and went to Larissa and said, "Hey, you got to prosecute this case because it smells like chicken crap 24/7. It's affecting our health." But they don't do that. or they don't go and go to the the appropriate court and seek an injunction to stop it. They
just, you know, it's my biggest fear is that we're going to create an environment that may scare off a poultry farmer. They may just go to the another county because they're not as heavily regulated as we are. And you know, it's it's a process to go through this. And I
really want our property rights to be as business friendly and agriculturally friendly um as we can. So I just there are there is recourse for the neighbors other than just making it go through the PLDRC or council. Thank you.
Okay. There may be here the situation that I gave to you was not here. It was in Ohio and it was probably everybody here's dreams. You didn't have to get a permit to build your house. you just build it. So, what it did was clear out
a uh a neighborhood of minimum 10 acre lots because nobody could live there because the the to the ammonia was so strong the workers would have to go in with hazmat suits to work it. And so, um
I don't know if that will happen here. Um, but right now it is a it's a special exception. And so, but you're telling me I think that there's no difference between a special and exception and by right now
because we've been preempted. Um, well, it it depends, you know, when the order of things. So if they do not have an ad classification from the property appraiser, your special exception rules apply and you can you
can condition it, you can deny it. Uh but the moment they get that ad classification for bonafide commercial farm operation, then that heavy preeemption for the under the right to farm act kicks in. Um, and it severely limits what the county can do if there
if if you know a county rule or regulation is in conflict with best management practices on running the farm. Um, that kind of rule or regulation does not apply to that bonafide farm activity. So really it's like it's you know the the scenario
you're looking at is um someone who wants to get uh poultry farm started and they don't have their ad classification or in the event that you know um they want to do something that's not specifically covered under a best management practice of you know the
state or the federal government. Okay. All right. This chicken's dead. What are we doing? Doesn't look like there's consensus to change it. Mr. Chair, that's just my opinion. No, doesn't look like there's any con consensus there. Um, so that
Carol that I think if it doesn't look like anybody else had anything on the green. I did chair. Okay. Just had a couple quick I I apologize for interrupting, but we actually talked about the poultry farms first talking about farm workers. So I
don't think I don't I didn't get a a notation for what we were doing with the farm. There was a majority leaving it the way it is. Okay. Thank you, Carol. Quick question just so I understand it um fully for the schools
parochial or private. It looks like we um we're good on the some of the other zonings, but just to be clear, we don't allow it in B1, B2, B3, B8, I1, I2. Those are currently special exceptions.
Okay. So yeah, so the the crossout that you see the FR A1 etc. those were moved to PLDRC. What were they before this? We had them in the by right category for
the recommendation. So right now they're special exceptions approved by council. Our first round of recommendations was to make all of them by right and planning commission asked for some of the zoning classifications to move to
the PLDRC. So it's it's kind of splitting it so it's not all or nothing. Yeah. It was so the be the bees are are by right but but also too you know schools or private
schools are are are a good thing or or dayc carees uh church catches a lot of different uses we right and and all those are are decent sized properties probably much larger than some of the one or B2 B3 I don't have a problem with allowing those they're they're good things for a
community they bring communities closer I I don't have a problem with those going by right for for those reasons. Same thing with the uh with the uh riding stables. This is uh agricultural horses, stuff like that. You know, we're we're excluding A3A4, which are
agricultural uh classifications, MH3, bigger pieces of property. We already discouraged mobile homes uh in a lot of instances and some of these other ones are are I'd like to make all those by right the schools and parochial private
by right uh Danny I'm I'm I'm lost could you just pick on one stay on one and let's go to the next one well they're already on here for by right yeah but they crossed out they they split them up uh chair and council so you want to add those back in
yeah make them all by right I mean all the crossed out ones Yeah, I don't see why I don't see why not. It's a something good for any area. Um, same thing with riding stables. I mean, that's good stuff. Um,
I was a little confused, Carol, on on because I I have the old list here and then the new one has these crossouts and it's was a little uh confusing. What was your reason for doing that? What was the thinking? Um, that was uh
something that PLLDRC um asked for and I know there was an email from Emily Bush that was sent this morning. Yeah, it was pretty complex for Yeah.
on schools. And it's just like going back to the chairs item for poultry farms. It's you see FR but A2 A3 A4 again bigger pieces of property are crossed out to still go to PLLDRC evident.
So, so I'm like this possibly we could have got. So, the reason for schools I'm reading from an email that I believe was for you guys from Emily Bush who's on our PLDRC seat. Um, says schools can have huge impacts that can cause harm to our
agriculture and residential communities. Therefore, it is suggested that schools Carol, you have to eat the mic. I have to really talk into it. Apologize. Schools can have huge impacts that can cause harm to our agriculture and residential communities. Therefore, it
is suggested that schools in these zoning districts are still reviewed at the PLDRC level. Mainly, schools have traffic impacts that should be reviewed and evaluated by the public to ensure they are compatible and accessible to those using the school and those living
around them. This use does not include public schools, only parochial or private. But, you know, in my my response to to Mi Miss Bush is we have one of the highest uh school board taxes. Uh we have deficiencies there. And I don't want to get ahead of my
skis, but we all know some of the the issues for for something in the community where a private person wants to come in and take that burden off of our people and in the in the community and and be more intimate with with that community. and we have building
standards, we have storm water, we have traffic, we have impact fees. We're going to have all this stuff. Why keep going? And I wish I would have seen this other copy. Why are we doing, you know, um Danny, aren't schools also governed? Uh
they have licensing from the state. They have whether they're private or not. So, there's requirements on the state level, too. That that might be a better question for Mr. Ken. That's not my wheelhouse. I don't because I think they have to make their case to the state in order to get issued a license to be a school and a lot of
those things are it's already covered covered in that. So, uh you know, council, I'd like to allow those uh schools, parochial, private, uh in in all those sections uh by right. Um, we already have requirements that uh
that cover every way till Sunday uh in terms of protection of the community through our permitting process. Councilman Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. I I respect that, Danny, but I'd have to disagree on one point. And the reason being is in my district, right on Clyde
Morris Boulevard, where Clyde Morris and Big Tree are, which is a very busy road to begin with. It's a county road. There is a small parochial school that is there. It's a private school and the school has been around for forever. My my bonus sons both went there when it
was across the street at the church. They acquired this property. It was a small building. It met their needs. But as we see the trend here nowadays, there's a lot more kids that are going either homeschooled or going to a private school. That
school has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger. They're now looking to expand that school. But if you were to drive down Clyde Morris on any given day, and I've already approached Ben Bartlett on it, because the traffic is absolutely horrendous on Clyde Morris Boulevard,
and there's been several accidents there coming from the school coming from the traffic coming from the school. So there's uh the principal takes it upon himself to go out there and direct traffic which is dangerous for him. But I'm just saying that that if I know that in my neighborhood at our
HOA which is right there near there have been people that talked to I wish we had the opportunity to be able to voice our opinion about that. And I'm true I'm only naming one school but I just want to give that food for thought. No. Um and you know I argued the other point where I agreed with the chair on the
other but I I accept it. This one I really got to stand firm on. Um I I think uh to be quite honest that this is accurate to leave I mean that was a compromise made by the the planning board um to me and I think that some of those zonings that they're
talking about should go in front of the of the PLC. Which specific ones Matt? We got Well, the ones that are listed I'm good with. So So you're good with B1, B2, B3, B8, I1, I2. Mhm. And and what different traffic
criteria would those zoning um Well, I think the one we're talking about is, if I'm not mistaken, B1, I'm not sure. Well, it's a a commercial use, but commercial use. Yeah. What different uh traffic um how would they be set up different from from the
other zoning classifications? I think the requirement would have been to add in certain traffic lanes and and things that that could have been conditions that were put on that, you know, on that site. Is there setbacks from intersections where they'd have to do a turn lane regardless of a, you
know, a traffic any of that stuff? Well, yes. There's all kinds of um design standards for traffic. I think when you're talking about schools and uh the creep that you are you are experiencing,
whether one in your neighborhood, and by creep I mean it just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. It creeps up, right? every year it's a little bit more um at some point they need to redesign their parent drop off or add more lanes for buses whatever the case right now there's nothing governing it
so they right because city though it's in the city yeah but I'm just saying if this existed in the county in the unincorporated area the same could apply do we have anything so if if that was in place what I'm hearing then then zoning classification is there any wouldn't
really matter is there any way to um regulate or or say, "Hey, if it goes over a certain square footage, certain number of students, we got, you know, certain number of students, we have you have to resubmit a uh your your an updated site plan, you
know, site plan or whatever." Is there I don't I don't know. I we've never faced this before. Yeah, it's a good question for what we're talking about because special exceptions are so guided by the conditions that we put on them or are allowed to put on the special
exceptions. So, this exercise was a very broad level, right? Um, if we were to look at a certain special exception that we wanted to change the conditional uses, the ones that are already listed in the code, that's kind of a a higher
level um research project um than what we're doing here. Um certainly that's something we can look at in the future. I would I would hate to come up with a condition ad hoc while we're here without discussing it with our traffic folks. So what what I what I can do on
that council if it's okay with you uh approve it as is um or if if there's that that R zoning that's equivalent to the B in terms of the the acreage um I'd be willing to to do that and then
you can bring that back as a single item to say hey this is what we got. Um but I'm I'm I'm good with that Matt. Okay. I appreciate and we're going to see more of it um with popular well that and the schools that I'm I'm thinking about not so much the parochial
school but there are a lot of these homeschool uh that are popping up where they go to the because I taught at one for two years at the over and they're becoming more and more and they're probably going to go into those more rural areas uh
where a lot of those kids are homeschooled and it gives them the opportunity for like two days a week to go to a school a classroom environment for homesooled kids. We're going to start seeing more and more of these. Councilman, this wasn't a jail job. Believe it or not, I did it after the jail. I taught for two years. I I want
to be like I want to be like Troy Kent. I want to be like Troy Ken. Do we have uh Suzanne? Did you have something? Suzanne Co. We'll be bringing this back. I'll just note that in my experience of dealing with school development, the biggest
issue tends to be traffic impacts and whether the neighborhood is appropriate as the schools get larger. So I'll suggest we look at, you know, maybe different classification of review based on the number of students. So a school of 20 students may be very appropriate
by conditional use or some you know low-level staff review. But there is no size limit in this use category. You have Yeah. So, we'll work on it. So, are you suggesting we take this off the list and bring it back? No, I think what I heard council say is approve as presented tonight, which and
then we'll bring it back for further discussion to see if you want a further rev. I didn't know if you were changing that. That sounds good. Or suggesting a change to it. That's fine. And then uh so we have consensus on that or direction riding stables. Uh again, you know, I see where it's um uh allowed
with special exception. And then these have these other a uh and larger uh classifications um uh as well. I'm all for it. Uh getting these kids outside, promoting agriculture, promoting promoting this uh
lifestyle. Uh I think we need more of it. Um, and I' I'd recommend just making that um making that acceptable uh across all those zoning classifications. A3, A4, MH3.
Um, what was the title? Uh, Ryan Stables. I remember for a long time we had one in Port Orange right there by uh I think north of Herbert. um uh there right right in the city and it was a dynamite you know until growth
caught up but we need to try to I think keep this stuff alive. Okay. I I like it the way that it is and and mostly it's because uh of osteining that they have a uh they they want to check on it because
it's for some of the same reasons with schools, traffic, uh lights, um uh manure piles, things like that that they just so that they have an input into it. And um I guess tonight I'm for public
input on to eight of these things. Um, I actually didn't have these two on, but so I'm glad you brought them up, but I I because I like riding stables and schools the way that it's been presented to us here and I I agree uh with you, chair, as
well, but you know, do we have standards that already address some of these and and the people I speak to in rural Ostein? Um, you know, uh, when I hear that it's keep it rural, keep rural activities. We don't want growth. We don't want these buildings. So my
thought process is sheriff if there's a riding stable on it. Would we rather have that or would we rather have uh apartments coming in front of us or an industrial business or a land use change? So this is pretty much damage control on the front end as as well and
keeping that way of life uh alive in our our world. That's my thought process with it. I don't know if we can agree on that or not. Uh but um it's better than um just just like the motocross discussion, it's better in conservation
or this than putting thousand homes on it. So um council, do we have uh uh consensus on the riding stables across the board there uh to include A3, A4, MH3, OTR, O, and OCR
to as an allowable? Don, I'm I'm with you. Um, one of the things I'd like to highlight is the fact that when hurricanes come in South Florida and people are trying to evacuate, one of the hardest things as a horse owner is getting your horses somewhere safely.
And so when these people from South Florida are running from a hurricane, they got to load up their their trailers. They got to take their horses somewhere and stable them somewhere. And so having all these additional locations, these maybe single horse or
two horse stables could maybe take that in as a side business to house some of these evacue evacuated horses. Um because that is a big issue. And um yeah, and I just agree with everything Danny said. I mean, we're trying to keep agricultural agricultural and so I just
I don't see the harm in in what's being proposed by Danny. Anybody else have any objections? No. Well, yeah. I I like it the way that it is, but it's okay. We have uh riding
stables as um uh consensus for uh all those all those zonings that are crossed out. So, all by right. Right. All by right. And I promise it's much easier after we get past the greens.
Okay. Yeah, almost there. And then uh did the schools did the poultry. Um Carol, what's S SWC and S SWR Southwest Activity Center and the
Southwest Residential and where would off streetet parking areas? What I mean, what would that really apply to? Because like A1, uh, big piece of property, commercial A, um, A4 or 2
A4, that's all commercial a, RR, 1acre parcel, RA, 2.5, R1, and you know, they're all they're all big parcel. What What's the deal with off- streetet parking? And why is it only allowed in SWC and SWR?
So, off streetet parking. Hold on. Let me confer with the attorney real quick. One of the issues that we had when we were going through this exercise was finding uses that were the same but called slightly
different things in different categories. Um, and I think this was one of those. Um because off- streetet parking areas, the definition is that they're not on the same parcel. So um recently we had a marina restaurant and
marina that had bought a parcel across the street that was in a different zoning classification. So they wanted to turn that into their overflow parking and that was a special exception. So that's that's what off- streetet parking means. So, I think these two uses
probably needed to be combined because they're both looking at 72-293 sub paragraph 14. So, it's the same criteria for both of them. So, I think this may have been um just a it's in two places, right, spelled differently.
Why? So with that being said, why would we limit that on like A1 to A4 when I can park a 100 pieces of machinery on there if I'm agg and associated with it a bonafideed a same thing with RR um you know and there isn't anything you
can do about it uh technically speaking right if if it's a so I'm just trying to see why that's also in the email that I got from the PLDRC member this morning and I I I hate trying to read other people's
words, but because we just got it today. I want your I want your professional opinion, Miss Miss McFarland. I So, it was that the difference is is it paid parking or
is it tied to a specific use? So, do you have a parcel in a random neighborhood maybe that has more than one commercial area and they're sharing a parking area or um paid for parking next to an event like
you know the temporary campsites or some of the bike week speed week. Um so if they wanted to they can come to us and and make the ask the appeal if they had one of those um other zoning if they wanted to do it on like for instance A1
to A4 they can still come to us and we'll be able to review it right to see if it it fits. Okay, I'm good with I'm good with that one. Well, when you say us, um, remember that does that mean that you want this to be reviewed as a special exception at the planning
commission level or at the county council level? The a stuff that's crossed out, the A1 to A4 to R, R1, correct? Um, where is it at right now? PL PLDRC, I believe. So, let me double check. Of
course, right now it's by county council through to public hearings. But I think the question is what is their recommendation? Where was it moved to? That's fine. I'm good with I have this nice big thing. So, yes, it was PLLDRC. I'm I got I got two old old sheets. So, that's why I'm asking these.
I think you have the original sheet that went to PLLDRC. Okay. The one that has the couple of red additions and subtractions is the post PLLDRC. So, uh, thank you. Moving on. Uh, I'm
good with that. Uh, moving on to backyard, uh, chickens. I know there's some regulations with that where you you obviously Wait, wait, that's that's another category. Uh, no, we're Yeah, we're in the pinks. Can we can we finish green first? Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I thought you
wanted to do each one and let's vote on on those with the because where we've ended up is that there's there's uh no changes except for um riding stables. Yep. And and then the schools
they're going to bring the the schools back. Different topic. Okay. Who is we missing? Just David. Uh, and actually I don't know if we can vote on anything with that. We've got two members of the public that want to
speak. Um, why don't we call on them now before we vote on anything and then they've had their say and and know that they've been heard. Um, and they're both still here. Uh, Gary Singleton, did you you wanted to speak on this
item? and then John Nicholson. Okay. Going to say, but I'll repeat it. My name is Gary Singleton. I live in the uh Port Orange area. Special exe exceptions are there for a reason. There are reasons these uses
were not included in the original zoning. There are reasons special exceptions require a separate process. A process that requires public notifications, public meetings, citizen input, and approval by elected representatives who are directly
accountable to Valuchia County citizens. By ignores all of the reasons these exceptions were not included in the original zoning. By eliminates the process that recognizes citizens right to voice their concerns before this
governing body. by right gives developers the proper and property owners the right to grant themselves special exceptions. Just a few examples of special exceptions. They're already listed most of them. Bar or liquor store, pulp
factory, poultry farm, canery. Imagine a developer obtaining a zoning for a business no one finds objectionable, thus avoiding having to address any concerns of the neighboring community, then granting himself one of the above
mentioned special exceptions. Use of the classic and deceitful bait and switch. It's a done deal. No public notice, no public participation, no government reviews, no adjudication by our elected representatives, no accountability.
Developers are accountable to themselves and their investors. The PLLDRC is accountable to those who appointed them. Only our elected representatives on this council are accountable to the citizens who elected you. We did not elect you to
diminish public participation. We did not elect you to presume to know what is in our best interest. We did not elect you to ignore our concerns. We did not elect you to silence our voice. None of what you are proposing is wanted by those who elected you. Your constituents
do not want more giveaways to developers. Your disingenuous claim of seeking to improve efficiency is no justification to eliminate the essential right of Valuchia County citizens to participate in our government.
Valuchia County citizens deserve better. We deserve representation. All overlays with additional protections such as local plans should be exempted from all special exceptions. Valuchia County citizens went through rigorous process to secure additional
protections for their communities. Now you pro propose to simply erase that security to give developers the right to bypass those additional protections. John Nicholson, John Eson, uh, the town of Beachside.
Uh, age has a an advantage. It's called institutional knowledge. Been there, done that. Okay. My where I grew up was the Levit town in Miami. Uh in the middle of all the farm community, they
built 200 houses. We were one of them. All right. Two blocks away was a chicken farm. Okay. Block to the west of us, horse ranch. We had cattle.
We had orchards. Those were my neighbors. They where we played. Okay. Um, to this day it's still the county. There are a million people in the area, but it's still the county. There are
cities all around us, and we are a little isolated county. Um, Southwest 8 um, 87th Avenue County to this day. All right. started with a little school when they
integrated u kindergarten, first second grade because they didn't want them to go to a black school because they were assigned to a black school and these were million-dollar homes. So, they had their little school and then it grew and grew and grew. Then another school started
and the Jewish people wanted their little church because they have to be within walking distance. Remember that group that came before you? They needed their school and it started out as a little school and then Riverier Day
School came in. A thousand kids on this road here and then 500 here and 600 there on one two-lane road. It never grew because all the houses were there and you couldn't expand it. These things
have a way of happening and I'm seeing it for here. I saw things that happened in Miami and I sold uh Daytona Beach when Morioi and Mo uh Margaritavville were planning on coming in to Daytona
Beach made comments because I saw what happened in Miami. If you see it once, it's going to happen. That little tiny bridge on LPJ was going to back up. No, don't worry about it. We're gonna we're going to widen it in 40 years and it's
not going to be a problem. All those houses out there, well, they're not going to be there really for another 25 years or so. It all came and it's going to happen here. So, when you change these rules, yeah, we can go on the internet. How many people do you really
expect to go on the internet every single day to see who's building what? No one's going to do it. So all of these things that you're saying they have by right and they can put in well you can come sue them later that's too late. Once they've invested they've invested
so don't take our rights away. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Um Carol, there you are. I want to make sure that uh I I think you're right. You said when we get past this it's smooth sailing. I've only got two more things after
this. Um, but you did want to take each section and get a vote on it, put it to bed, make it easier. So, um, if somebody wanted to make a motion on the on the green section, the
the buy right. I think that where we end up is the consensus, majority consensus was everything is presented as presented except for writing, stables, and schools. I think that's um
I'll make that motion. Second. So, we we have a motion. I'm going to write it on here by Matt and Danny. Did you make the second? Yes. Okay. Yes. There's another Oh, I'm sorry. I covered it up. Connie Colby, I'm sorry. Um, walk
on up if you wanted to comment on this and u we haven't voted yet. I won't call the vote until you come up. Um, so everything stays the same except writing stables and schools.
Um, we'll listen to you and then and then Yes. pardon me. Um, Connie Kby Orman Beach. Um, I see this is all about chapter 72. And one of
the things I see, um, if it's underlined, it's supposed to be something that's being added. And I, um, I like the fact that during this meeting, Mr. Santiago put in there, apply the code fairly to everyone. Um,
at the very beginning of this section 72, they have an underlined section that says the county, this is new, county uses on county owned
or leased land shall be exempt from the provisions of this chapter. I don't think that's quite fair. If it's I think the rules should be for everybody and
exempting the county from rules is not fair to the people of the s of this county. As far as the um the plc um I'm kind of trying to com see how it goes along with in Orman Beach. We have
the site review planning committee which is where everything starts and then we go to planning and is there a midsection here between this department and the and the council? Is there something that comes in the middle of that? I'm not
sure. But this PL DRC leaves no room for the people to have any say after this. They get to decide for us. We didn't elect these people. Um
I think we should have more ability to have says on what's coming into our county. Um and as far as when the meetings are, it would be nice to have some kind of notification. Is there a notification that could be sent out that we can sign
up for so we know when these meetings are? Or could you put little posts in what meetings for the week in the paper? It would be helpful to know when these are because they're not really well-known meetings as far as I know.
Um, and I think that's really all I have to say for right now. Okay. Thank you. Uh, thank you very much. Um, county manager George Rectenwald, your name came up somehow. All right. Uh, David Santiago.
Um, are we going to be voting after this, Mr. Chair? You have another public comment. Nope. That was public comment. So, this is closing comments. I just want, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to bring attention to, you know, I I'll just come around right out and say some fake news that might have been shared
here. um and that this is some type of developers gift or anything like that. I know Danny, you asked some questions along the lines of that. It's important for the public to understand that most of the developments that some people may not like go through a different process.
They go through the PUD process. That's a negotiated process and these things don't generally apply to them. They go individually on a different issue. So, this is no developer's gift. This is probably for your smaller mom and pops,
a small business owner, a family business on their own farm, things like that. That's who this is applying to. So, if anybody tells you that this is a developer's gift, they are fake news. Thank you.
Okay. Um, I just wanted to make one last comment. Uh, Don, you've talked a lot about, as as you always do, um, your desire to protect private property rights. I don't think there's anybody up here that
disagrees with that. I certainly don't don't. For me, that also extends to the private property rights of all the people around all these affected areas that we're the let's go to the poultry farm. Um, I think we ought to be zeroing
in on what kind of poultry farms we allow. Um, because they're they're not all equal, but instead we're opening up even wider. And and that's the there's 52 items here. I had questions about
seven of them. And that's my only reason why is because I think all of those affect the private property rights of everybody around these seven different items. All all of them. But but most of them are just it's not going to kill
anybody. It's not going to hurt anybody. Um, so I don't know where the balance is when we talk about private property rights to include the people that live in a neighborhood and then
the fuel terminal comes in or whatever wants to come in and um so I I just think we should be more cautious. So, I'm a no on this just for that. And I hate to be because this is really good work that you did, Carol,
and your staff and and the PLD PLDRC and everybody involved, but we're cutting out um the public's ability to have uh a voice in it other than calling the sheriff's department. So, um Councilman
Robbins, thank you, Chairman. And sometimes I try to understand the the motives behind um some of the scenarios that are often presented to us in this this us versus them scenario like we don't care about um the people that live
there other people or this singles out people or this hones in and helps out only these things help out everyone. Everyone and everyone is entitled. What we're doing is in guaranteeing that they
are entitled to the same rights as their neighbors and as as as everyone else. This shouldn't be an us versus them uh scenario cuz that's not the case. This strengthens uh the the the property rights of
everyone. If you go downstairs of everyone, I have not heard one constit well I've heard a couple uh uh in in in some of this that have asked government for more regulations in their lives said hardly no one ever.
Um, so you know, I don't like the scenario that that we get put in, us versus them. And I think we're on the right track, council, uh, when it comes to this, uh, this this list presented, and it's going to get better, uh, here
shortly. And, uh, we're all entitled to the same thing. I'm not falling or or or or buying into this um, and pitting people against each other. That's not the case. That's not why we're here, and that's not why we're doing it. Thank you. Councilman Dempsey.
Yeah. Um, you know, it's it's I'm not proposing that we allow poultry farms everywhere in the county. I mean, I know Troy, you live in a subdivision. I thought you did. I'm sorry. Okay. But but there's more dense neighborhoods. I mean, if you want to be away from the
country life, then you go live in an in a neighborhood. But if you're going to live in the country, you got to expect some of the country. Um, you do. Okay, there you go. But I mean, if you're going to live in the country, you got to expect that, you know, people
are going to be burning, you know, after I mean, you're just going to have to deal with more. There's going to be the odors of cows and and and the chickens and all that stuff and poultry. And I just, again, I just want to make it less restrictive. There are options. I mean, I I don't want to leave
the impression with people that by making it by right that they have no recourse because they do. It's just people a lot of times expect the county government to fix everything. But you know, there's a reason why we have a courthouse and a court system. And if
somebody is violating your rights, what I just recited, a lot of the the rights these property owners have, if it's a nuisance, go get an injunction against them. I mean, you have recourse. My goal is to make this more uh friendly especially for the agricultural
community because I I want to attract agriculture into this community. We want we want more a we want less development and more agriculture. How are we going to preserve all this land for agricultural purposes unless we give incentives for the farmers to come here?
So if we offer a more welcoming zoning policy, we're going to maybe draw farmers who otherwise may have gone to Lake County or Marian County or who knows where. So I want to make it welcoming for the a community. That's why I'm kind of pushing things the way I
am. Uh thanks, chair. Thanks. I appreciate and I'll just say this and I'll be I'll be done. This is quick. Um, again, my my whole purpose for doing this is to give the public a chance for
an input. I I'm Do we remember when the whole fuel farm thing came up on whole road? The reason we have zoning is to prevent stuff like that. And sometimes we get zoning wrong and have to go in and check it.
Sometimes zoning is right, but there's still areas where that shouldn't occur. This gives the public a chance to come in and speak to that. But more than that, it gives us to hear because we don't have all knowledge. We don't get
everything right. Zoning is not always right and our decisions are sometimes not always right because we lack knowledge and lack some specific information. The public has been incredibly effective and good at coming in and bringing us research and and giving us
other things to think about. I don't want to cut that out. And I think we lose something in good government when we keep reducing the public's ability to speak to their government. And yes, we do have recourse afterwards. I've been working on it for years on Audabon in
DeLeon Springs where we approved uh homebased businesses. I was for that. I'm still for it. But there's problems with a a homebased business there that just ignores the law. The sheriff's department is called three or nine times
a week. It still goes on and there's no recourse to those neighbors who are begging for help. Um I want to avoid that where we where we can. So Jake Johansson,
thank you sir. One of the things that that I've been talking about a lot here the past two years I've been sitting up here and and out in town when I commun communicate when people are complaining about so-called overdevelopment is where's the
development happening? It's happening on old farms, right? 40 acres, 60 acres, 100 acres. And in order to to to prevent those developments from happening, we have to keep farmers farming. So in
order to keep farmers farming, we need to make it easier for them or as easy as we possibly can to allow them to use their property in the best means they know. And and I think this takes a good
shot at saying um uh a guys, Samsula folks, out out west guys, people that have farms even I mean heck there's there was a a worse facility on uh Route
One in Port Orange that just sold. We got to tell those people, we want you to stay. we want you to to be successful and and this is how we're going to help you do it. Um and and I'm with Don. Um
uh there are a lot of we get a lot of complaints after we've approved a special exception. Some complaints we've got from people that have had existing zoning classifications by right and
there's still problems. So, so technically if that's if you want to give the public more of a say, move everything to county council. We don't do that. So, we have laws
uh to take care of this stuff. Um the the problem is is everybody thinks government is the answer to their problem. I got a problem. I'm going to go to county council. The sheriff doesn't work for me. I don't care. You're my county council member.
I got a problem. That's a civil issue. I don't care. You're I I voted for you. We have to start taking responsibility for ourselves and be good neighbors. A don't make your poultry farm smell like
you know what for the remainder of the people around you. And number two, um if you have a civil problem with a neighbor, work it out civily. Uh so I I think this sets us in the right foot to
to do what's best for the a community and prevent further development to the development that apparently people don't want around here. So uh I'm all for the the the buy rights wherever we can. Uh and I'm good. Thank you.
Chairman, are we voting on this? Is this yours? Oh, no. No. To vote. Okay. the vote. Uh the motion on the table is to uh Pardon me. Uh I'm going to let you restate the the Okay.
I was going to try to do that. So I'm glad the motion on the table is to approve the uh the first two and two pages and and two uh two lines. The green section except for the changes that were made to
schools and um what was the other one? st riding stables and riding stables. Mr. Chair, I my note said on the schools you were approving as presented by PLLDRC and then we were coming back for more discussion later. So I think I only
have the writing tables changing to all by right and I just was asking for clarification. Yeah, that that was my intent. Okay, does everybody understand the motion? Yes. Okay, thank you.
Uh, all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? I. Can you confirm who the motioner and seconder was? Again, the motion I thought I wrote it on here. Believe I I may have made it. The motion was by Danny Robbins and the
second was by Matt, I believe. You take responsibility for it? Yes. Okay. Matt Reinhardt made the motion. Robins made the second and the vote was six to one on the green uh five right.
Okay, Carol, I'll take a stab at Mr. Chairman. Can I just add guys, we're coming on this clock quick and we took a long time on that last one. Let's let's try to hold ourselves to some level of efficiency. This is a big
okay I'll clarify what I said is we had a lot of repeat there was a lot of duplicative and and I don't need to hear anybody's commentary twice I'll I'm clearly listening to everyone once brother I love you brother but I get you
so looking at the pink starting on page three of your big spreadsheet um there are a few of these here that are already conditional uses that says it um backyard chickens says requires conditional use approval and the farm animals and fowl are
conditional use. Um we're actually taking the mobile food dispensing vehicles which is in a different section of the code but it is a conditional use. So that one is technically already a conditional use. The rest are one special exceptions that we're moving
over to the conditional use criteria. So those are approved by staff. There is a a special permit involved in it. It's not very expensive. Um and uh so we have conditions for all of these uses and it's up to staff to um apply those.
Good. That that answers my first question was under whose conditional use? It's staff according to criteria. I'm good with all of these except for one. I want to make it broader. I am I think I'm the only one maybe maybe except for Danny that actually is in
agriculture. I certainly support agriculture and um so anyway I'm just going to leave that where it is. The first one backyard chickens um it's too narrow. You need to
keep no roosters. you maybe need to have uh because I'm I prefer and most people do prefer this will put me out of business partially from what I'm about to suggest, but people that have chickens usually like to let them run
free. I don't because they tear up my garden where we grow vegetables. Um so you should probably have some kind of a conditional use that they're either confined or there's a fence to keep them out of the neighbor's property. Uh, I'm seeing heads nod. So maybe you already
have that. The other thing would be why five chickens? They need at least 12. They'll get eight eggs and that's not even breakfast for many families. Yeah. Why is it five? So interesting that you bring that up because there were some months ago you guys actually were talking about backyard chickens. So it's on our our
list of um things that we're researching. We're getting close to the end of that research. So, we were actually going to talk to you guys in a couple of meetings um maybe three meetings or four meetings from now um about those criteria. So, but you would prefer today to just
to pass it as is. Yeah. Yes, please. If the chicken goes to the neighbors, can the neighbor have a chicken stool? Yeah. Yeah. There's supposed to be a coupe supposed to be in a fenced area and they're supposed to have a coupe. It's it's a little neighbor chicken at that point.
There's some very specific requirements. Neighborhood dogs gets the chicken if you don't have a fence. Okay. Thank you. Uh uh Councilman Robbins. Thank you. Uh Chairman, I I have a couple. Uh Carol, farm animals and fowl.
I see uh it's it's a conditional use. What are the reasons why that couldn't be by right like some of the other uh a because I'm I'm seeing rural agricultural designations here uh where um um
right but the RR MH4 and MH8 are not those are all rural uh classifications. Yeah, I I that's going to be uh something I'd look at council for for buy, right? We we are pulling up that 290 sub
paragraph 10 so that you have all of the the details on that. Oh, thank you. I see you have to have classification. We'll let Scott Ashley, zoning manager, answer that.
Okay. Um, part of the issue, uh, right now under the rural classifications that are listed, um, they allow only the keeping of, uh, farm animals or raising of crops as a, uh, accessory use to existing residential property. So in the
RR if you have a home you can have for uh personal use only not for resale animals farm animals. Um and also the specific code section you're referencing is intended to prevent farm animals in
an urban classification. It already allows it in the urban and rural I mean excuse me the agriculture and rural areas. It's specifically listing those classifications that are not allowed. So this is kind of reemphasizing some of that, but it might be if instead of
having a pro restriction of having a home, we do it by conditional use through a staff review process. My question, Mr. Ashley, is is um is RR a rural 1acre lot? Is that a rural uh designation or is that
a rural residential classification? Okay, so that's not urban. So we don't have to worry about that. How about RA? That's 2 and 12 acres. That's a rural agricultural estate. So that's not urban either. How about MH4? That's a rural mobile home. Okay, we're on a roll here. MH8. Is that
rural or urban? That's another rural mobile home. All right, council. I'd like to go ahead and make those by right as well. That's going to be my first recommendation. Now we cleared that up. Suzanne, did you want to interject?
I was just going to ask Scott for the council's benefit. Scott, what are the conditions that would not be applied if it went by right? Because this is allowing it by staff review with certain conditions. So in RR, for example, what are the conditions on the conditional
use that would be eliminated if it went by right? Um through the conditional use process, there would be a staff review, there's also a notification to adjacent property owners that uh would be required
Are there standards? Um, pulling that up real quick for you. And what what is a staff review do? Well, we go through an application process where we um we may look at how many animals you're talking about
proposing in this scenario, possibly limit that based on the acreage of your property, estimate. Um, if you want a horse, well, you know, general rule of thumb is like at least one acre per horse because of how much they eat. So, do you want to allow somebody to have 10 on one acre? That may not be
appropriate. So, things like that as far as staff review, but it's no specific to that use. It's just general conditions that would uh evaluate on a case- by case basis on the conditional use. But, you know, in in that case, uh, uh,
council, that's what a feed lot is. You can have a oneacre, you can put 10 horses in there if you have the food to stabilize that. What do you think feed lots are? You know, uh so that that is exactly it. Not saying that I would I would do
that, but but that is standard in in in in practice. And and we've heard uh this is just listen, if there was something that I thought that would would would hurt these rural now that we separated rural and urban uh clearly. Gosh. Um, but this is the stuff we've
all been encouraging and and I didn't see or hear anything that was um overwhelming or compelling to um live as you see fit to now asking the government for every damn thing in your
life. So, this just goes along with with with everything I think we've been talking about. Um, so thanks. Um I I did want to point out I apologize that um the there is a condition the condition is that the use is only valid
for two years. So every two years um those property owners are supposed to come back and get application. But I I can definitively tell you that um we have never ever processed a conditional use for this for farm animals and foul
move to accept Danny's recommendations in this intersection. Second. Uh Don Dempsey. Yeah. As to bed and breakfast, is there a reason why we don't include FR and A1? Oh, I I'm sorry. I didn't know we were moving on just
yet. I I didn't know either. I thought he was commenting on this. I didn't know if we were doing the whole pink plot. No. Well, he he just made a motion for farm animals and foul to uh move them to by right. I'm sorry, Don. I'll try to get through the couple other ones quickly. I'm sorry. There was
just Danny Danny made the motion. Who made the second? Was it S David Santiago or was it vice versa? I have Mr. Santiago, Mr. Robbins. Okay. Okay. So, the motion is to uh move farm
animals and foul to by rate instead of conditional use. Do you I have one question on that. Um do you have any data any of you of how often
um because I know it's happened. I've watched it where too many animals on a farm have had to be rescued and moved off because the horses were emaciated and dying. I think there's a reason that Scott mentioned that we look at this because
unfortunately people don't always do the right thing. Yep. No data. I do not have any data from animal control on that. But there's laws, I think, that that protect that uh that chair that can happen on a 100 acre piece of property or can happen on a
1acre piece of property. Okay. Any other comments? Jake Johansson. Yeah, I I I'm going to ask the question, what would in response to that question, which was a good one, is is what would a
conditional use uh special exception PLRDC or council do to prevent a applicant from raising animals in improperly? H how how
would we would we tell them as a conditional use you got to raise him properly? I would think that would be a given in every situation and and so I just
the the concerns everybody has are are important to me but I don't know how how our stipulations be them conditional use PLRDC or council would prevent some of these things from happening. Some of them are going to happen. Uh we give
people driver's licenses and tell them not to speed. Some people speed. Some people drink and drive. It happens. Um and and we have ways to prevent that. So I I think although we are silent here, I I think there is some public health way
to prevent or otherwise stop because we do it all the time with animal control people from from treating their animals poorly. Uh I I think uh so that's how we would control it. Not not here at the uh
at the um zoning level. Okay. Thank you. But but I think Scott Ashley answered your question, Jake. He said they they go out and look and I I've never heard this. I was really glad to hear him say it. He's actually using
uh pretty widely widely accepted agricultural uh wisdom that you don't put 10 horses on on one acre. Um so it gives them a chance to go out and prevent something before the horses die that have happened
in Valuchia County, have happened in Deleon Springs and and other areas and not just horses, hundreds of dogs, hundreds of cats. Um, so they can go at least they have a crack at it to go out and make sure what is the intent. I
thanks God if I if I understand you right. Is he still there? He's hiding from me. You you go out and look at the property and they're going to tell you how they're going to do whatever they're going to do and then you do you can say
that's not through the conditional use process. Yes, we would. Right this point there are no specific standards for the farm animals but similar to uh mobile um food trucks uh backyard chickens the code already has conditional use standards.
we would be looking at the information provided by the applicant doing review of the site make sure they're in compliance with the standards that are listed and so that would be again if this is to be made a conditional use we'd have to provide certain guidelines and standards that we have a process
standard but in specific standards to the farm animal we would be looking at acreage number all that as part of that general review for that specific use well that right and that's what I I think that's proper and right now that's what you're asking for is conditional
use, but um we're being asked to change it to by right. So then you won't have the opportunity to go in and do that. That is correct. Okay. All right. Okay. Uh Councilman Robbins, I I think
we're ready. U we're at the vote. Okay. Chairman, we're voting on voting on one line, the farm animals and foul moving it from the proposed conditional use to by right. Um all in favor say I. I.
Any opposed? I And I think that was two of us. Then chairman, I'll package this all together because I I see the same trend guys for these conditional uses. I'm just trying to cut this down. So for instance, uh I'll package fishing docks,
warves, and peers. It's allowed in B7 and I3, but here in B8, why isn't B8 uh allowed? It's a commercial use just like B7. So, uh I I I look at this stuff. So, I'm going to
say fishing docks and wararfs and peers uh by right in my motion. Uh group homes, uh you're going to have to explain that to me, uh Carol here at the end. mobile food dispensing vehicles, B1 to B9, that's all commercial zonings. Uh
BPUD, same thing. I1 I4 industrial, all this stuff is business related. Make it buy, right? Why are we uh adding more uh to to to these people's lives in in an acceptable zoning, outdoor entertainment and recreational uses and structures,
all commercial zonings that uh um uh or what's All commercial zoning. So B4, B5, B6, B8, those are all commercial. Wh why why is it even coming to us if it's already own parking garages, special event
centers? Where else are you going to put a parking garage? Why wouldn't it be right by right in a special event center? That's where you want it. So byite um recreational areas, uh we're going to leave that one alone.
single family residence for owner or manager on existing permit or permitted uh uh on B2, B4, B5. All these are commercial and industrial. If they choose to uh own or operator and live on site and they're good with that, by
golly, let them do it by right. So, my motion will include fishing docks by right, um, mobile food dispensing vehicles by right,
outdoor entertainment and, uh, recreational uses by right, parking garages by right, and single family residence for owner or manager of existing permitted by Right. Which was what was the last one?
Single family residence for owner or manager. Okay. I'll second it. I'll clean up a lot of this stuff. Okay. The motion is to make uh one, two, three, four those five categories by right instead of conditional use. The
motion was by Robbins and the second was by uh David Santiago. and then chair I'll after the vote I'll come back to group homes because I have a an example. Okay Paulo uh Mr. Mr. Chair, so the mobile food dispensing vehicles, those are your food
trucks, right? So those um those don't exist by themselves. They are essentially accessory to an existing business. And I think the um this this council had a previous discussion on,
you know, the uh you know, where you want these um how long they can be on there. make sure that it's, you know, someone doesn't just pick a vacant property and put a food truck on there. Um because we had
to balance the the statutory preeemption with, well, what what can we do with food trucks? Um, and also you get into that kind of fight with existing restaurants who don't, you know, they paid impact fees, they've paid
infrastructure, they developed a site and they don't want to compete with just a food truck that sets up on a vacant lot. So that's that's kind of one of the issues with food trucks by right. Um, that's why we made it a conditional use and why it had to be coexisting with an
existing business. What are what are the the ex uh conditional uses? Because I see just exactly what it says, Paulo B1 to B9, those are all commercial uses. If it's a business, same thing. Yeah. So, I I'll tell you um
functionally when because we get questions about food trucks all the time. Lots of people have food trucks and I could say that almost all of the people that we talk to about food trucks don't have the property owner's permission
and they try to get sign off from us without the property owner's permission. So that's that's why we like to get that. I could I could see that uh you know and that that that would leave us uh open a
little bit. I I I'll be open to to possibly uh retract that, but then again, council, that's a that's a that's a private property issue. You know, if someone's trespassing on their property, that that owner has a a a uh a liability
or a um responsibility to to uh um be with the law and run them off if that's the case. I mean, so um or if somebody complains, here we have code enforcement. you go out there and check their license. Where's your permission slip?
You know, that's one of the preeemptions. We cannot license individual food trucks. We can only permit property. So they they have taken away the fact that I like food trucks to be honest with you. So that's so they're licensed directly
with the state under you know certain standards. So, you know, that whole discussion was, okay, we're limited to what can we do with property. You know, each each uh business property that's existing can have as a conditional use
um a food truck or multiple food trucks so long as they meet these criteria. We don't care what food truck. Yeah. But well, I'm happy. I'm happy, Paulo. But um as long as we keep them from setting up in like a residential area, but these
are all commercial areas, right? In industrial IPUD, these are all um fitting. But but then again, too, how about the guys that run the steak trucks through the neighborhoods or the Schwans guy? You know, are we going to regulate?
Yeah. But but Kroger, I mean, all these people, if if I could help, I might be able to add some clarity. What council's not seeing is the portion of your code that has about 15 standards on how mobile food trucks may operate. The the um the food
truck that is there for just less than an hour feeding a construction crew is exempted from these. But previous councils, your code has more than a dozen standards that says you as long as you meet these it's a checkbox kind of a
thing. way this is. Remember now these have to go to two public hearings. So we're taking them from that to a checklist approval by staff. Make sure they're not in the buffers in the setbacks. They're not in required parking spaces for the regular uh
business. So I I just in concept just want to remind you that the conditional use, staff approval, no public hearing, checkbox, you meet these things, you're good to go. And I think without at least looking at the many standards that are in our code that would basically be
eliminated if you just move them by right or at least give us a chance to figure out how to instate them. You you probably need to do that. We've also only allowed them for the last three years. They they were not prohibited until about three years ago. I understand it, council, and I'll I'll
be willing to take that off. Miss Concient is is right and I see the uh Miss Concient's always right, by the way. you took your um but uh okay I see the value uh I see the value in that chair. So let let me jump in one second on here. Suzanne, thank you for that. I was going
to say Carol Suzanne, anybody back there, speak up and defend some of these things. If you you put them on here, you're not going to argue with us, but just tell us why why you see that. What I would like to see I I
happen to love food trucks, too. I would like to see that whole ordinance come back and so we can look at those 10 things because one of our requirements is that you can't leave them there overnight. Why? Why make the owner pick it up and move it somewhere else? So there's things that I think we should
debate and make it easier for a food truck operator to operate. So I'm fine if you want to approve this or if we can get consensus to approve it and just bring it back like we did schools. I'm on board with it, chair. Okay. I like food trucks, too. I'll be
happy to do that. Okay. Does anybody have a bell? Because Danny and I just agreed. Does angels get its wings? He's saying just just hold on. Okay. Go ahead, Danny. Um
so on this package so uh I'll amend my my motion council to uh buy right fishing docks the uh group homes no mobile food uh dispensing vehicles but the outdoor entertainment parking garages recreational use or excuse me uh
single family residence for owner or manager. Um Don do you have any input on the recreational areas for A1 to A4? Those are huge lots. Um, no. Should we do it by right or leave it
alone? Well, I would prefer by right only because it's such large acreage that you're the you're the recreational guy, Carol. What what what obstacles or what for those wreck areas,
what would uh what could we potentially run into? And what's classified as a recreational area? Are we I mean, throwing frisbes? Are we uh jumping monster trucks? A lot are um business establishments,
restaurants, retail areas that like to throw outdoor entertainment events. Um and some of them want to build permanent facilities for those outdoor entertainment events
like stages. And what it does again that that creep factor of well I have the facilities so now I'm going to have those events more and more and more often. Um so with the outdoor entertainment events there has
to be an inspection by the health department the fire marshall to make sure that all of the um accutrants have been removed from the property food truck stages temporary electricity. So adding the permanent facilities kind of
invites violation of the outdoor entertainment events, but can you guys still is there still a check and balance in place whether it's noise if they're up to code? They're not exempt from code and from standards and from ADA and all this other stuff. And
uh I I'm going to add that to to this motion as well. It's it's some of this stuff is redundant, guys. But that's my motion. those. Uh, one, two, three, four. All six of those by right.
I'm okay with that. I seconded a motion. I'm okay with that. I only have five. What's the six? Because I I uh I just added the uh recreational areas once we uh discussed it. I got I already had that down. So, you got single family residence for owner. Uhhuh. Parking garages for
outdoor entertainment and recreational, right? Fishing dogs. Uh the group homes, fishing docks and warfs. I didn't have group homes. Okay. What is which one were you just talking about? Re recreational
the outdoor entertainment and or outdoor entertainment and recreational areas. Oh, it doesn't matter. You're including including both of them. Both of them because if you look at it, chair, they're all we have we have standards. the um again I hate to
interrupt but the legacy dog diving was a recreational area. That's one that you've saw recently. Yeah. If I could just uh add in this is another one where there's several checklist criteria if since we're going from two public
hearings to the checklist. This would be one the recreational area I'd bring back along with food trucks to see if you want to loosen those standards or move them by right because there there's some standards you don't have in front of you that would be okay. I'm okay with that for
I mean I've got to assume you had some reasons for doing this. Tell us. Yeah, the the reasons for the recreational area is that we do have code in place like you know noise
ordinance um nuisances, parking um so we have enough uh criteria that we feel as long as someone comes to us and says what are the criteria? How can I make what I want to do fit into all of the
cate all of the different ordinances that are apply right? Because it can be kind of a a tangle of regulations to get through. So if we just do it by right, we're going to constantly be going out for, you know, every event with code enforcement saying, "Ah, but you need to
move your speakers a little bit. Yeah, but you can't park there. You try to park over here." If we get that conversation done from the get-go, makes things a lot easier for everybody. Understood. I'm I'm open to uh again Miss Miss Conscience uh uh suggestions there. So um
for for outdoor entertainment and recreational use instructors bringing it back. Correct. Not voting on it right now. Correct. And and she can lump or we can lump that in with the uh the food truck discussion. Food truck approve as suggested which is move it to conditional use. But whether
we eliminate it and take it by right, we'll bring that back to you. You can look at those criteria and decide if you're comfortable as conditional use. Okay. I just want to make sure everybody understands the motion. You're good with that? Yes, sir. And Santiago. Yes, sir.
So, that's three. That's the fishing docks, the group homes, and the parking garages. Go to buy, right? Um and the single family residence for owner manager. Thank you. So, for did we also remove recreational areas?
Yeah, we packaged those outdoor entertainment. Okay. Four. Okay. All right. Okay. One, two, three, four. Okay. Suzanne, your name is deputy county manager. You're done. All right.
Um Okay. For all of the red, it's really pink, but you're calling it red. Are you call? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right, we're down to the blue
salmon. Why didn't you speak up? Well, I just Well, I did earlier and then we said, "Well, we're dealing with Danny's now and then we'll come back." That's okay. All right. So, bed and breakfast. Yes. I was just curious why we don't include FR and A1 into the uh
zoning, the acceptable zoning, and those are bigger parcels of land. Mhm. more rural. I mean, I would think those would be the most fitting for a breakfast. So, I I'd like to add FR and A1 into the uh bed and breakfast.
Leave it as conditional use, but just add those two zonings to the uh classifications that are allowed. Is that a motion? Yes. Second it. Thank you, Scott. You okay with that? because they're all they're all owner
occupied required, you know. So why FR and A1? I like that. Yeah. Okay. Uh all in favor say I. I. I. You made a motion. I did. Did somebody second it? Second. Okay. All in favor say I. All of us.
Okay. Now, are we okay for blue? Yes. So, the blue ones are going basically from two public hearings down to one, right? Troy, are you still with us? Troy, I'm trying to make this quick,
brother. I'm going as quick as I can. Red. All right. Uh, Danny. Yes, sir. Well, hold on a second. Don, is your name up for the blue? Okay. Uh, Councilman Robbins. Thank you. Um,
thank you, uh, Chair. Uh, this air curtain incinerator, for for those guys that that don't know, that has to do with u um burning, you know, force feeding air into the fire. Uh, they're no louder than uh a generator or any other piece of equipment. Uh, I've used
them many times. I don't see why we're requiring PLDRC uh to use this um you know when there's air permits and you contract forestry usually uh before you even and use an air curtain incinerator you got to make
sure the weather and the wind is right. This is just another uh requirement on commercial agricultural and industrial um pieces. So, uh, I would say we can do that by right
for the air curtains. Um, yeah. What's your Why is it on here, Carol, Scott, Suzanne, anybody? So, uh, temporary air curtain incinerators are allowed by right.
Special exceptions are permanent air curtain incinerators. What's your concern with them? So, so you've you've approved an air curtain incinerator special exception before. Those are for properties where
debris is brought on site. So, if you're just using an air curtain incinerator to burn um you know, debris that is on your property, you don't need to come to us. Um that's handled by the forestry service. Um, but it's you're really
setting up a kind of like debris uh kind of uh yard waste facility to burn um yeah to burn other people's debris on your property and that has traffic implications you know um usually that
you know uh I think we want to make sure it's located appropriately where you're setting it all up that you know fire is able to look at it. Um, so that's kind of why why would they exempt I1 and I2 the the most intense industrial zonings that we
have? This is an industrial um act, you know what I mean? Or or or process. Why would we exempt those and exempt large properties like A1 or A2? Well, because of the the act itself, it
usually requires a lot of land or is um more appropriate for a kind of a high intensity type activity. How more appropriate can you get than I1 or I2 for this type of service? Well,
usually your your industrial properties are not as your uh kind of agricultural areas where these kind of yard essentially yard waste. So businesses again too then you have larger parcels like A1 or A2 which are
agricultural that now we're saying uh I2 I1 is not the the same or usually as as large but now too we're also putting A1 and A2 through the ringer. uh making them go to PL PLRDC. I'm trying to figure out the
the argument because it's an industrial action or use. We're looking for larger properties in your words and uh fitting to the area. So, so the issue is it's an industrial use.
You're looking for large properties, but usually those large properties are agricultural in nature, right? So, you know, you have that conflict between what is essentially a intense use that requires traffic and you have a lot of
burning um in a rural area. So, that's why where else would you do it? Well, that's that's usually where it goes. But you need um the the concept is okay, where in those large agricultural
areas is it appropriate to have this use? because it's appropriate in large areas, but you like drilling down specifically to making sure that um it is compatible and not disruptive of the agricultural area. And here's here's for instance, they do
this um at in in Ostein right behind the uh Circle K there at the corner of Doyle Road in 415. There's a big lot there that's all uh rural agriculture, right? Houses around all that stuff. They burn there all the time.
during storms and and and this sort of stuff. So, I'm trying to understand and I'm not an attorney or Einstein's cousin, but I I I don't know. I'm I'm trying to realize you're just the the the nuts and
bolts of this thing. Interject something. Yeah. I wanted to ask a question if I could. Okay. Because I'm trying to follow Danny, but I want to make sure I get on the right path. Yeah. Um you I thought I heard you say that this this having it the way it is proposed
that if someone in the event wanted to make it let's say a commercial business to use this air incinerator in a permanent basis. This is why you would this is why this could be needed. Yes. So that you can put conditions around how that commercial business air
incinerator is utilized and where it's placed and those types of things. Okay. So, so the reason I I might be okay with the way it's written is because it's commercial business and and I don't know an incinerator, but I'm going to go out on a limb here. No, I I I I see what you're saying.
Um, but David, let's just say it's not by right and let's go with their assumption. Why can't staff in that event, why can't we cut this process in half with with all this stuff? Make it a conditional use. Make it a conditional use. There's still
checks and balances. I'm okay with that. That's my point. I And I think I I'd like to see staff to have eyes on it to say, "Okay, well, it's a conditional use. It has to be meet these conditions on where you're going to place it." And so it considers all of the, you know, the neighboring properties, where safety and those types of things. And I know
the forestry might be involved, but I wouldn't want somebody to be able to put it on the edge of their property when they have, you know, 20 acres. And I don't know if somebody would do that, but you know, you don't you have and your code does have setback standards for incinerators for that. So I was going to recommend a conditional
use because that sort of ensures we keep that but makes it more expeditious. Do you have a problem? This is a commercial business. That's why if it's somebody's personal property different do you have a problem that way we can get the uh get this over with? Um all the PLDRC stuff. Do you have a problem
with making those conditional uses and cut and and cutting uh this bureaucracy literally in half? Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't want to do that. which which ones um any of them I I would al I would have to to plead um
that taking um very controversial uses and having only staff work on on those all the time is is a bit heavy. So to be frank the reason why air curtain incinerators are were asking for PLDRC
for a public hearing is because they are very controversial. There's it always brings neighbors out. And when you're especially when you're looking at the agricultural zoning classifications, a lot of times those neighborhoods aren't actually agricultural. They're the ranchets, right? People have they're the
backyard farmers or they just like to sit and look at their their horse area, their pastures. So I I would hesitate to put uses that become, pun intended, very incendury only on staff's shoulders
because then we would have a lot of angry neighbors coming to us and saying why didn't we have a public hearing for that? Wouldn't those condition wouldn't those sorry wouldn't those conditions be approved by us though as policy what they are?
Sure. So um I I would expect staff just to follow those conditions and apply them equally to everyone whether it's 50 foot buffer or whatever it might be. So I mean that to me is your that to me is staff's safe harbor if you if you you
follow the guidelines I know what you're saying but I don't think the conditions are as specific and all-encompassing as you would think that they are. So again, the the public hearing and having a special exception that goes to PLDRC allows the board to
impose conditions. So if we don't have our conditions completely nailed down and tight so that it considers every conceivable scenario, that's what the board does. David, I I I can concur with with that.
I I went through it real quick uh and narrowed this down a little bit. Boat docks, residential docks over 500 square foot. We just did one by right. Uh we can we can some of these less
uh intense ones, for instance, boat docks, hunting camps. Uh it says you can't have one in an RC area or A1 tracks or A2 track, you know. Come on. So, some of these stuff like uh
the the the boat docks, uh camps, hunting, campgrounds or temporary campsites, uh I have uh curb market um that could be staff. Um livestock feed lot by right. You can
keep kennels by PLDRC. Uh flea market can be a staff thing. Uh dairies and dairy products with special exception that that can be a staff thing. Um should I should I give you guys that
list right here to to speed it up? Okay, I'll make uh boat docks, residential docks over I think we already So you're proposing all these to go to my right. No, sir. Not at this point. Not after
hearing that the testimony of of of her. I was I I can I can see the the hunting camps. That that makes sense to me. I can see the the boat docks. Even though again, we don't have very specific regulations on that. I would object to the temporary
campgrounds. um those get really big, you know, hundreds of campers and we have had fatalities from entrances and exits not being according to what they should be. So, you're recommending PLDRC for that one still?
Yes. Okay. Which one, Carol? Campgrounds, temporary campsites. How about curb markets? I don't have a problem with that one. You don't have a problem with that one.
How about dairies and dairy products with special exception and minimum of 5 acre? Why isn't that u it's highlighted in red. Why isn't Why is that a not a conditional use or buy? Right. What do you just following?
What's carb market moving to? You've got it. You want to know what he suggest David? I have I'll start I'll start from the top. Boat docks, residential docks, staff approval or conditional use, I'm sorry. Conditional use.
Hunting camps conditional use. Herb market conditional use. Hold on. Hold on. This is not alphabet. I don't see hunting. I don't see hunting. It's camps, hunting. Oh, yeah. Conditional. Okay.
So what what I would would say is as you're going through this list and perhaps I should have mentioned it earlier where you see the uses for instance cemeteries special criteria C section 72-2934 that means we have conditions for it. If you see a use that does not have that
number like right above it cement plant temporary that means we don't have conditions right for that conditional use usually means that you have conditions extra conditions so again boat docks conditional use
camps hunting conditional use curb market conditional use what's a curb market sound like sorry I'm a city slicker I have no idea. Alls I see Alls I see flea
market is is a temporary setup of fruit market fruit uh either by vehicle or a cart temporarily on on a piece of property commercial. Okay. Somebody we've probably done one in the last 30 years on somebody's property a special
conditional too Danny condition I mean because it's it says B4 B5 B6 are all sold next. Yep. All right. uh dairies and dairy products. I think the concern with that is those the CFSOs, the CAFOs, concentrated animal
feeding operations. Sometimes those can not be very pleasant to be around. I are they already allowed under A1 and A2 by right? Correct. Okay. Yeah. Why are we limiting A3, A4, and OCR?
Uh so right now they just have to go to council for approval. So, we're just taking one step back in the public hearings. Yeah. I would make uh dairy products then by right and then by right by right this is it just dairy products or does it include the animal that makes the
dairy products? I'm sorry. Is this just the dairy products the bottled the canned product or it doesn't include the animal? Right. You can have cows if you just have an agricultural zoning
classification. So you want to make that by right, Daniel, or conditional use? I can have milking cows on any piece of property I want if it's bonafideed agriculture. So by right, right. Yeah. Okay. I can have it if I I'm doing it for profit. Okay. I'm just writing it down next to
it. Um what um daycare centers uh staff why would that be better with conditional use or better with PLLDRC? What's the difference? Well, yeah, it is with PLDRC right now.
Um and that's for daycare centers that have more than than five children. I think it's it's very similar to the school discussion that we had earlier. How about a flea? How about the flea market criteria?
Flea market in uh Yeah, but it's again all industrial, high traffic, high noise, high volume. Here we're we're adding this well and and some of these uses, you know, I I think we've done one special exception for a flea market in the last
10 years, but some of these uses, you know, I think I think folks would be really surprised to see how many people that we have come in wanting to set up flea markets in vacant properties all over the county. Um, so I would I would
be very cautious with that. Um, I understand. But how many B5, B6, I1, I2, and I4 uh parcels do we have in unincorporated Valuchia? Probably not that many. See what I'm saying? So, if
I'm not going to fight you on it. No, there's because there's not I don't think there's a lot to fight on, right? Being that we don't have a lot of these parcels, it can only go in these planned areas that were for commercial or industrial. So why and council we can my recommendation is make the flea market
conditional use staff can regulate that livestock feed lots all those exemption or all those uh at the bottom there by right uh to go in line with our agriculture and farming um and you're saying that because those are
a azonings right yep y um livestock feed locks by Right. Mhm. Can I interject here as Danny's going down real quick? I just have one question about that one. Can we include is A1 included for livestock feed lots
by right or is that just omitted? A1 allows all agricultural pursuits. So then when we get to the A2 and the A3, those uses start to break up a little bit. So A1 is allowed to do livestock
feed lots by right. Correct. Okay. And if I can go back to one also the uh daycare centers, are they allowed in A1 by right? Because I noticed that that's omitted as well. I don't believe so. Could we add A1 by right? I'm sorry, not
by right, but just add it to the rest of the uh zonings. Yes. I don't see any legal reason to be able to because it's not Don, you all done? I like you guys are letting me uh do all this so I get blamed for everything.
Yes, appreciate that. Can you Can you define what's your definition of a feed lot? Let's see what it is. Are you guys looking for it? It's a quiz to see which of us could find it the fastest.
Got it. Any limited area designed or used for mass feeding of livestock? Mass feeding of Yeah. All right. feeding. Um, so you wanted that by right?
Yes. And, uh, moving down railroad yards, siding, and terminals. I think we we agreed. Uh, so I1, I2, I4, uh, they're already listed by, right? Why is I3 exempt from that?
I3 is the waterfront. Yeah, it's on the It's on the waterfront. I think we have a limited area, very limited area of waterfront. It's Indian one. We have one parcel.
How about B7, B6, B5? Why are we limiting the rest of those? Uh do you mean why why are the B5 and the B6 and the B7? Yeah. Why are why are all those included? Well, this is
because all kinds of materials come by railroad. Um, so if we have some sort of rules that we can put in place as far as what is on the trains that are coming coming in and being unloaded and then loaded back up again.
Terminals. Yeah. So, what are you what are you proposing? They This is only to PLDRC. What are you proposing? I'm good with that. Those were my questions for that chairman. Um recovered materials for uh facility as regulated under rule 62. Uh I2 it's an
industrial use. I would make that one a staff app or a conditional use just for the I2. I2 and the A1. Okay. Where are you? Which one? Right below the railroad guards. Uh chairman.
And I and I'm not again I'm not arguing with you, but I I will say that the few that we've had have been very very controversial. Well, I mean I too is industrial. It's no different in my opinion than buying next to an airport and complaining about the airplanes. You're buying next to a
heavy industrial site that is zoned for heavy industrial. That's what a about is is the A1. The I2 again, we only have one area of I2 in the county and that's by Hull Road. So, how how about uh leave the A1 the PLD DRC and
leave and uh change I2 to conditional use. Yes, Chris, I hope you're keeping track of this. This will have to come back for a third reading because of the multitude of changes you're making. So, you'll get to see these all again fresh.
Oh, if somebody hasn't I'm trying to record it all. I can I can I have them all marked here. I can repeat them. So, we need to get this over tonight. Taking very good notes. Um yeah, we just clear we we can't adopt
this tonight with the number of changes, which is fine. That's okay. But you've made Yeah. bring a motion to adjourn. Um, what is the uh event centers, schools, parochial? We
already covered that, right? We're going to be talking about that one. What's smoking or airing of sea and freshwater food products? Very stinky. So, so if somebody has a a u uh smoked
mullet, uh they they can't have that as a as a business where that's the only thing that they do. That's this type of use that we're talking about. And again, it's the I3. So, we have one property with the I3.
So, everyone else is exempt from it. Why is I3 exempt not exempt? because it's uh for marine industrial uses. Is that Oak Hill? Where is I3? That's the
edge edge in in the heart of fishing country. Yeah. Who would have thought who would have thought that you can't have a uh a sea and freshwater food products? Uh I'll go ahead and and and uh make that a conditional use as well.
Swim clubs. Conditional use, tennis clubs. I'm sorry. LRDC. Uh, move all those to them. um they felt like the um amount of
traffic that they would generate would be unpleasant. You can have that from a mom or dad that has a uh at home business teaching toddlers to swim every 10 minutes uh like I do uh uh bring my my daughter to
down in in New Simra, you know, every 10 minutes from uh 8 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. in residential area. So conditional use um I'd say same things with tennis clubs.
We want we want people outdoors conditional use for truck and freight transfer terminals. Why is B5 uh eliminated or or PLDRC and not a conditional use? um because it's kind of on its own with
in the B5 area that's usually along thoroughares highways it's highway commercial so a lot of times in those situations you have residential that's backing up to it okay same is that the same thing for the truck storage and truck stops
correct okay um so what' you do to that one uh I was just I'm just going to leave it alone uh chair That's all. So, do would you like me to repeat the uh list?
Yes. Starting with air curtain. I'll start from the U from the top. There was nothing else on the There was nothing on that first page. A3. What? Air curtains. I thought you were doing that. Yeah, air curtains. Conditional use. Uh, conditional use.
Yeah. I think we staff asked if you could keep that at PLLDRC because of the controversial nature we've had those at. Okay. All right. Moving to it's page four. Uh boat boat boat docks and residential
docks is conditional use. And this is all a motion by the way. Uh boat docks and residential docks conditional use. Camps hunting conditional use. Curb market conditional use. dairies and dairy products with special
exception uh is by right by right thanks Carissa um flea market conditional use uh the daycare centers they're bringing
back uh uh to to figure that out uh livestock feed lots by right yes sir on the daycare center and and on livestock feed lots we added A1 as well.
You're good as conditional use. Uh the livestock feed lot is by right. That's the one that it already allows under our all agricultural pursuits. So we don't need a one. Correct. We can list it there, but it's
it's Could we add it just so there's no sure confusion? And what was the other one? We added a zone daycare centers A1, right? Then we had uh moving forward mini
warehouses that was conditional use. We had the moving and storage companies that was conditional use. Uh the offsite disposal of land clearing de debris was I believe that was conditional use
as well was what I have it marked. We have uh the recovered materials facility as conditional use. Smoking or airing of sea and freshwater food products conditional use.
Swim clubs conditional use. tennis clubs conditional use. And that's all for that section. And that's my motion. Is there a second on Councilman Robbins motion? Second, Johansson.
Okay. Any questions? Debate. I'm sorry. I need to clarify. Um the recovered materials facilities the we were leaving A1 as PLLDRC and conditional use for I2. Yes. Okay. Thank you. That correct?
Yeah. Yes. Okay. Uh Don Dempsey. Well, I just I have two more things I want to talk about. I'm ready to vote on Danny's motion. Denied. Done. Good night. Exactly. But I do have two other things. I don't know if you want me to wait. I know there was
Are they in the blue? Yes. Well, then we need to do them now. Okay. Why don't we take care of it all? Recreational vehicle and it's under B6 and B7 only. Is there a reason why we don't have other zoning classifications for RV parks?
Recreational vehicle parks. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question. Well, the only allowable use apparently besides the existing two are B6 and B7. Is there a reason why we're not adding more zonings that would be
uh appropriate for an RV park? Um no, I I would not say that that was something that we were looking at. It's adding additional um zoning classifications on it. staff was looking at this as the scope of looking at existing special exceptions and existing
zoning categories and how can we lower it. We didn't necessarily look at it as where can we add more uses to a specific zoning criteria zoning classification. It's fine that you want to do that. That's perfectly fine, but that's just not the way that we approached it.
Well guys, my thoughts are that we need to make it more expansive. I know a lot of these RV parks are in the agricultural rural areas. And so if we could add some some a zonings as well as a forestry reserve and maybe some uh larger scale, you know, B4 type of
zoning as well. I just want to make it if as long as it's going through PLDRC, as long as the public's going to be entitled to be heard, okay? Let's give the prop the potential investor and property owner the ability to look for more areas to find an
appropriate um location for an RV park because Don, would you be would you be willing for them to bring that back with all and we can add zones to it? And that'd be great because it sounds like it's uh Jake, you just disappeared. Was that
Yeah, I I I suggest we go through this list and look at all these things and and and tweak our ordinance, but uh not not in conjunction with this. Okay. Then the only other thing is I just want to make sure it's clear on riding stables that the A3 A4 MH3 that's
all been redacted. So, we don't want to pass this as is as it relates to riding stables because we got rid of we moved that in a previous motion. Correct. So, I want to make sure we're clear that that's been redacted. Okay, I'm ready to vote.
Okay, no other questions. Um all in did everybody everybody has these changes? All in favor of all the changes um say I I. Any opposed? I I lost me on a couple of
them. Motion carries. Uh six to one. Chair, I'm pretty much done with this uh red list as well. If you want me to uh go through through that one, I can make them suggestions.
Okay. Red list for uh right now it comes all the way up to county council. Yep. It's page six of the seven. Uh aquaculture uh ties in with uh agriculture and stuff like that. I don't have any problem with
that by right. Uh, I don't know why it would uh why it would come to us. Um, health and safety. Do you all have a It's like feeding, right?
At a minimum, I would recommend conditional use because we do have standards around there. You can tell that by the reference to 72 29315. Um, but I haven't looked at it close enough to know any more about recommending whether it goes to public
hearing or not. So, it says including non-exempt excavations, which means usually the way that plays out is first have a borrow pit and then when you're done digging up the fill and selling it, turn it into aquaculture.
That'd be cool. um conditional use. The borrow pits are or what we call non-exempt excavations. Where is that on this list, Carol? It's number just further down. It's under the county council. Somewhat like previous uses, those
borrow pits have tended to be ones where a lot of neighbors come out to voice their opinion about whether they're appropriate in the location they're proposed. Um, rather than put that on staff's shoulders, it's one I'd ask you to consider maybe taking just a
PLDRC so we make it more streamlined than all the way to council. But I'm I'm a little concerned for us that if you're talking about agriculture uh the aquaculture and the non-exempt excavations, right, if you get to that
later. Well, if if that's going to put Okay, now that I understand the a little bit clearer that about the pits now, that that at least needs to go to the PLDRC. Um, is that both for aquaculture and excavations or just aquaculture?
Oh, in the same line. Yes. All right. Gotcha. Why would we not keep the excavations with us? For the borrow pits. I don't I I mean I I hear staff ringing a bell on that and I'm like I'm okay with that. How many borrow pits are we going to have come
before us? But I think I think we'd be better served if we held on to that one. Are we able to separate or both aquaculture? I agree with Troy. So, how about this? The the aquaculture
we can do PLDRC and and if it's a borrow pit, we'll keep it with the council. So, get rid of that including non-exempt excavations. That makes sense. And and I look at uh if you go down from here uh Carol and council ashall batch plant permanent
temporary you see all these are industrial right until you get to equestrian and but you got to jump through all these hoops on industrial property. If it's industrial why the heck can't they that's the I would assume that's
the right and that's why they bought the property. So, you know, uh, council, I'll need your help or David, I'll need your help with this. And we can exclude some of the some of the, uh, like the A1s, but if it's industrial, it's industrial. Yeah. Could they would still be required
to, even if they had it by right, they're still building standards, right? There there are um and and I hate to mention specific things, but you know, we've have had some pretty fiery
um public discourse about allowing all industrial uses in industrial areas. I mean, such as fuel terminals. I understand that. But if we want to go back to the fuel terminal example, we
all know what went wrong with that whole scenario. Should have never gotten that far and it should have never been past y'all's level. So, what what I'm looking at is to simplify this process and strengthen property rights uh and not
expose us to um and expose staff and expose this council to these um weaponized scenarios uh when you're you're looking at an industrial use on industrial piece of property.
I mean, this isn't rocket science. So, what are you proposing there, Danny? I I'm I'm I'm going along your line. Yeah. For those uh asphalt batch plants, uh temporary cement plants, construction demolition, conditional. No, no. Uh PLDRC.
Yeah. Instead of council. Well, Danny, hold on. Because I was listening to your argument in the beginning a few minutes ago on how those things played out. Don't you think that's going to play out the same way in the PL
PLDRC? And then what's what happens if it gets turned down there? It gets bumped to us, right? But at least it has an opportunity to eliminate uh a process here. You know, at the end of the day, I I think I'm I'm making the argument along your original lines because you
said if it's asphalt, right, and it's I2 and it's a permitted use, why can't we disallow it? condition why conditional use would be more appropriate I think based on your initial arguments then it's done based on the conditions but then that would again put it on
staff's back right and it's a right right or you just make it by right yeah I I didn't mean to go that far but but you know what I'm saying we're trying to uh get stuff off of our plate but in the other end we don't want to
get stuff off of our plate yeah I I don't want to get this off of our plate. I'm a hard hard no on this. We Yeah, this is I2 and I1. We need to be able to have some control over what happens even in I2 and I1 because we've
got I1 and I2 zones that shouldn't be that anymore. They're now neighborhoods, but they are. And and we could change it. You're you're backing us up further so that none of that can be changed and neighborhoods will be forced to have
terminals and asphalt plants. That's that's if that's and right now they still have the ability. They just have to go through PLLD and and the county council. That's our responsibility. If if that's what council so desires, by
all means. But I remember a comparison when we had the dogs on the beach. It's our liberty to be able to walk our dog on the beach chair by by you, but it's not your liberty to use your piece of property, an industrial piece of
property for an industrial act. Yeah. The other the dogs on the beach came to the council too. This does because we don't always get everything right, Danny. We didn't get it all right in zoning and we need to change it. And now we can't change it because it's bill 180. I agree, but I didn't make a
Don't tie your hands further. That's all I'm saying. I agree. But that's not what happened. That's the point of this discussion. And I didn't make and I didn't make a motion to do any of that. I'm trying to figure out if there's a piece of the process that can eliminate it and make
it easier an easier process in line with whatever this council wants to do. So, please don't put words in my mouth. Thank you. I I'm not the one putting words in your mouth. I'm giving I'm just telling you if this is if that's what you want to do to change it from council I don't make a motion to do that chair
if you want to change it to count I'm telling you that from how you lose my vote if you want to change it from the council to go by right because it's already I1 or I2 no we have to have uh some control over the future of our
county I agree with you he didn't suggest that I'm just telling you that if he does that I he loses my vote I don't I don't know where he's going yet. I think he first said PLLDRC is what he said first. Council, is there an easier way to cut
this process down uh in any of these circumstances? I'm I'm I'm I'm an open book here. I'm completely open. So, if I can weigh in, chair, if you don't mind. Yeah. So, your name's not up here, but No, that's why I just asked if I could weigh.
Never mind. Get the people on there first. I'll put my name up. Don Dempsey. Yeah. Can I just make sure I'm clear on the process we're talking about? PLDRC versus council. PLDRC means you go to the PLDRC. If you get approved, you're
good. If you lose, you can go appeal to the council, right? Yes, that's correct. council these options that we're talking about now is you go directly to the council and that's your only pitch or do you have to go to both PLDRC pass
and then go to council and pass you don't have to pass PLDRC to come to us you would be keeping this the way we wrote the ordinance would be uh all of these uh ones that say council is keeping the current process and the current process is PLLDRC and then
council so PLDRC would give you a recommendation. So, that's kind of just a waste of time, isn't it? I mean, you have to go through the PLDRC to get a recommendation, and it still goes to council anyway. That that's a a political Well, I mean, I hate to but no, that's
that's effectively what happens. You have to go through the PLDRC just to get a recommendation. It's nothing binding, right? There there's there's no uh permit or approval issued at the PLDRC right now for any special exceptions.
So, So my proposal guys is why I mean the the property rights. Danny's a big property rights. I'm a big property I think we're all big property rights guys. But we also like to have the public be able to come in and be heard. That was their big complaint. We don't want to make it by right because
they want to be heard. So why don't we just shift all this to PLLDRC? the public can come in, air their issues, and the PLDRC will make a either an approval or a denial. If they approve it, it's done.
If it goes, if it's denied, they can come to the council because I, as a property rights guy, like I think we almost all are, if not all, I think we all want to heir on the side of the property owner first, but still let the
public be heard. But I would like to have that appeal process to the property owner because I think property rights are what made this country. And so we have to give the property owner the right to appeal to make sure that he has
due process and some sort of safety net so that if he gets shot down by the PLLDRC, he can still come to the council and say, "Hey, they shot me down, but what do you guys think?" So change all these to PLDRC's. Change them all to PLDRC. Make the motion. I like it.
Thank you. I move to the all the council uh I don't know how to word it, but all these count council recommendations all be switched appeal DRC second. Um I've got the attorney whispering um
that wants to make sure you understand I'm sure you do that um this also works in the reverse. If the PLDRC approves a case and the neighborhood uh doesn't like it, they can appeal and that would also go to county council.
Right. And we've had a few times where PLRDC PLDRC has unanimously approved minimum uh uh citizen involvement and two months later
and two hearings later we approve it. Yeah. We we've had many and and you know last time I did a count a majority of of our quasi judicials have been
70 61 52 votes. So plus it's a there's a cost savings Jake because cost savings for us cost savings for them time savings everything. Yeah. I think if this this goes, guys, we're probably effectively scared off
our two new hires. Okay. Uh, Don, were you done? Troy Kent. Um, Mr. Dr. Dempsey, I I appreciate um your ability to get the council on board to streamline that process and be do that efficient and effective piece, but
council, I look at the pieces that's the council has to approve and I'm I'm wondering in the past three years that we've been together, how many airports, landing fields, asphalt plants, cement plants,
glue factories, hazardous waste transporters, hog farms, junkyards, and rock crushers have we had come before us. I I can't recall one of those. And I'm torn
because uh Mr. Robbins, I I could not I think agree with you more about if it is zoned that way. It is zoned that way. And I'm a big property rights guy.
But the ones I just mentioned to you. I'm also a big property rights guy for the guy next door also. And they may be zoned the exact same way, but they might have a real legitimate reason why they don't want to have a slaughter house right next door or a
cement plant right next door. I just think that we we might be losing sight of this because I haven't seen one of these come before us. So, if they do, it's a it's a once
in a blue moon event. I'm okay keeping it right where it is. I really am. For the council ones, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with us having our our stamp of approval on it. Um, I think that we are blessed with common sense and I
appreciate the hard work and homework we all put into these um, meetings, but I think there are some things that the community expects us to weigh in on.
I just do. Um, and and you know, is that playing politics a little bit? Guilty a little bit. I think it is. I think it is, but I also think that our bosses expect us to weigh in on certain things, and I'm I'm okay with just
keeping it the way it is for the reasons I stated. Thank you, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair Troy. I have to agree with you. Um, and the reason being is I think there was a gentleman that was here earlier, and we don't always see eye to eye. This gentleman was here. One of the things he said kind of kind of
hit home when he said that they elected us, not the PLRDC. And this process that's here today where it says council will have to go through PLRDC than us. And you just said it, how many of these have we actually seen? And
I love checks and balances. I'm an individual property rights guy, too. But I love checks and balances. And um so based on that and based on the fact that our bosses, like you just said, they voted us to make those decisions. I want to make I actually make my decision when
I see what happened at the PLRDC. I actually read that. I see how much how many people showed up for that. We I encourage people all the time online to be involved in the PLRDC. Be involved in your planning boards in your cities.
That's where decisions are made. But now we're taking that out. So I'm actually going to be if that's what the motion is, I'm a hard no. Uh I like the process that it is for what's here today. So Mr. Ken, I'm in agreement with you.
Thank you. I I am too, Troy. I'm glad that you said that. And chairman say, if the motion fails, I will make a motion to keep it as it is, but sorry, chairman, I interrupt you. I apologize. That's okay. Um I I know we're trying to to protect private property rights. I
know we're trying to cut uh somebody said cost savings, but we also have a responsibility for savings to um people's health and our quality of life. And we need the county council needs to have a say even in industrial areas.
What what are we going to allow um because it could be safe or not safe? Yeah, it could be maybe it's maybe it's in the code that Clorox is allowed to come in and set up a gas company, but do we really want that in the very few
industrial areas that we have or or whoever it is? We we between Senate Bill 180 and what we're talking about here, there's no reason to have a county council anymore. We we could go to ribbon cutings. We could do a couple other fun things, but we can't do the
job that the the public expects us to do and be their voice, be their eyes and ears and hearts. I we can still protect private property rights, but we need to make sure that the public is safe and
this there's some of these things I I'd be okay with, but most of them th this needs to come to the council. So, uh I'll go back to the top of the list. Uh David Santiago, you've been waiting for a while because you're not on the list.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, there's precedent for this though. many counties do what what you the motion you made, Don. So, we're not charting new territories or trying to take away things that Flidians don't necessarily have. Um, so that's why I'm okay with it
and it works well in many governments and I think it work well here too because we have a very competent staff. Um, additionally, um, the Mr. Chairman, I think, and I get it you were just saying, but where I disagree is, you know, if we pass this, do we
revert back? I know you're just talking about, you know, to just doing ribbon cutings. Well, um, my friend Troy here just went down the list. We've dealt with almost none of these in the last couple of years, and we've had jam-packed agendas, so I don't know if that necessarily carries weight with me. That's what I'll say. Um,
but they may. Okay. Um, as far as public safety, I don't subscribe to that commentary that that we are ignoring public safety because we have again very competent staff that have rules and procedures and
conditional uses and things and standards that they have to apply. Um, I know I most of the times when these things come up here, nine times out of 10, no one up here is a public, excuse me, a subject matter expert in the topics that come before
us. Nine times out of 10, and we leverage the experts that we've hired with degrees and and experience to kind of guide us, and that's the same audience that helps guide the PLDRC. So, um, I don't think we're charting new
territory here. uh efficiencies for staff, efficiencies for our residents, money savings for us as a county, and money savings for our constituents. So, I think this is a good move. And no,
don't I don't subscribe to and no one should subscribe to the fear of u of things are not going to be safe um because there's no evidence to prove it. I would never say that because there's no evidence to prove it. If there is, I
will certainly provide that or find safeguards. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, Councilman Dempsey. Yeah. And I Thank you, David. I I appreciate that. And Jake, um, I'm not trying to take away people's right to be heard. I'm not trying to
take anybody's right away, but think about it. All we're talking about doing is making the PLDRC. If we leave things as is, like Troy is proposing, then why even have a PLDRC? The whole exercise is pointless because
it's only a recommendation. Well, we get recommendations through emails and everything else all day long. Why Why do we even need to have a PLDRC if all we're going to it's has no bite to it. Um, it's, you know,
going to PLDRC first, um, and letting them make the decisions may eliminate, like Jake was saying, a lot of the stuff they otherwise might see. Now, everybody who comes in who wants to do an airport or gas and oil, I mean, they have to come before the
county council, whether there's any neighbors opposing it or not. So, look at how much time that takes up when it comes up. And it's just the PLLDRC should be able to make their decision, the public can be heard, and if either party doesn't like the results, then
appeal it to the county council and we vet it and see if we want to approve it or deny it. But just to leave the PLDRC to be a pointless, biteless type of step in the process is is meaningless. I don't know why we would do that to them
and just add to their workload. I mean, let's let them have some bite. Like Jake said, a lot of them may end up just okay, if they get shot down, then they go away and they give up. Or if the neighbors don't like it, they'll appeal it and bring it back and then the council has to deal with it. And I mean
like this, it says in the top it says airports and landing fields. Well, we just passed airports and landing fields in the PLDRC section. That was the second one on there. So, there's a lot of things on there that we've already voted on to leave in PLDRC airports.
um helports, helipads, uh recreational vehicle parks, railroad yards. I mean, all those are potentially uh nothing you want in your backyard, but we left all those on PLDRC and I think rightfully so. I don't think they should be by right. I don't think they should be conditional uses. It's
something where the neighbors need to be heard. They need to um have a place to go and express their concerns. And I just think that should apply to all these other ones that are currently in the in the council column. I'm not trying to take away anybody's rights.
Thank you, Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Just briefly to close this out for myself. Um, Mr. Dempsey, I I hear what you're saying about, you know, then why do we have a PLDRC? But I think it could be turned around like why do you have a council if
your PLDRC is going to make those decisions? You know, why why do you have a council? Just something to think about. And then the other thing is is, you know, like we've never approved a rock crusher, but I've watched some pretty cool videos of these rock crushers online.
And, you know, you're right. I live in a neighborhood beachside. And um I don't ever foresee uh an industrial zoning happening where there's going to be a rock crusher near my house. But you on the other hand, I
think you live on some property and I'm worried about people like you who could have next to them an industrial zone piece of property and a rock crusher go in and you coming in here to this council going can can you all imagine the noise I'm
dealing with all day long while this rock crusher is running? You know, I'm just saying it could be within a certain distance to your house to where you're hearing this and it's bothering you. Um, so I'm I'm I'm more comfortable, like I
like I said, where I am with the council with it, but we'll see where it where it falls. Yeah. Uh, thank you. I I'm I'm with you, uh, Troy on this, Don. I I forget the
two word you said. We have a PL DRC. We're making them pointless. And what was the other word? Powerless. basically. But I I don't I know what you mean. I don't see that. I think they do,
you know, they're one of the busiest um boards that we have and they do really good work and when they when we get an item back that they've gave an opinion on, I read through the whole thing because I actually love hearing their arguments.
I think Ronnie Mills, the chairman, does an excellent job. There's a whole board of good members, but they weren't elected and our staff wasn't elected. And we're giving off the responsibilities that the public thought we ran for to unelected bodies. And I
just want that layer of protection. David, you said there's there's no evidence that um there's any safety issues here. And I am not trying to scare the public. I I don't know if there are safety issues here or not, but
we're learning every day. We have the highest cancer rate that we've ever had, and we're not sure all the reasons why. We might we might learn something to be able to make an effect on that. We we have a a very conservative federal
government right now that gets criticized for being so conservative, and yet they're looking at all kinds of standards that are affecting our health. the president appointed uh Kennedy to look at our health standards and say we got to get rid of food colorings. We got to get other stuff that was always by
right that we could just do that. And now we're learning it's killing our kids. It's making them less healthy. So I don't want to give up that ability to learn something and be powerless and and pointless to be able to do anything about it. So, I I think we should keep
all of these where they are and um and let's uh let's take on the responsibility that I think that the public expects us to have and still protect private property rights, but we're not cutting ourselves off at the knees.
Um well, I was gonna respond, but I'll call on you. Um we got Jake Johansson and Danny Robbins and then David Santiago. So, so I'd like to wrap this up, but you call the thought that I'd love to, but
the the thought that that these changes were about to make are are going to put people at increased health health risk. I didn't say that. Is but that's what people took away their
perception. And what I'm saying is is call question I'll second to call the question. Yeah, Carissa, would you call the role? I believe the the motion uh
on the floor. Um I don't even have a second. Did somebody motion it was Danny Robin said move all the council Don motioned. I second it to move all of the council to PLLDRC. Correct. Mr. Kent.
Wait, wait, wait, wait. Motion was by Don. Second was by David Santiago. Yes. Okay. Now you can call the role, please. Mr. Kent, no. Mr. Reinhardt? No. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago?
Yes. Mr. Dempsey? Yes. Mr. Johansson? Yes. Mr. Brower? No. And Wow. Wow. Next item. What do we got?
Okay. And uh just one one request uh council uh staff, is it possible I can just see the headlines now. Mhm. Is it possible we can prepare a statement in terms of the clarity, you
know, on one of our our letterheads that that you guys do of to what exactly happened and maybe the process um of this. so we can put it out uh to our our our people because I can see this going a million different
directions right now and and being drugged through the street with uh the the mass misinformation that we currently deal with. Danny, that clarity should include a and I hate to go because the the narrative that's going to be portrayed
by some is that this is a developers uh dream that developers for projects still go through a different process which is typically the uh development review. I'm sorry. The uh so if we can developer agreement if we can explain uh quickly the uh the
uh PLDRC or the conditional uses just quick definitions of that for these people and uh and and what this was about that would help us out uh greatly. Thank you. Great job. Thank you for uh How can That's pretty subjective. How
can they do that? Remember though this has to now because you've changed it so much it has to come back for a third reading. Yes. Yes. So that's why that's why I'm here. Um uh because of the to accommodate the changes and to preserve the notice. Um I
need someone to say the uh we're doing it next on the 4th. So um that the uh to continue the item to the to the Thursday, September 4th uh meeting at
9:00 a.m. at this. So moved. Is there a second? Johansson. Pella, can all these changes be accomplished and published in time for the publishing of the agenda next week? Yes. Thank you.
If we're pushing it, I I'd suggest we bump it out meeting, but if you think we can make it, I heard. Yes. So, two weeks. How how long does that give us? A little bit over two weeks because it's a Thursday meeting for for the fourth. The reason why I was asking is because
staff's going to have to incorporate these changes into the final document. That's all. So, and wait till No, I I I want to keep it till the fourth. Let's Let's rip this band-aid. Let's vote. Staff can do it. They're very capable. We just hired two very capable people to
help them. A quick quick legal question. Um, the agenda goes out shortly, but does does the item actually have to be 100% complete uh the day the agenda goes out on that
Monday night or can it go out with just the title and give yourself two extra days, right? The state statute says adequate, right? We'll work on it. I think we again you we have a good staff. We'll
see if we can get No, no doubt. But but we're not tied legally to the to the to the Monday at 5:00 agenda. So So the requirement is only that the continued consideration be listed on the agenda or similar communication produced
at the subsequent meeting. Um the whole purpose of this is we receive direction on, you know, on the ordinance. We're making changes. Um, we know what those changes are. We just have to write it. What was the title of the original uh
public notice? There's a short title. Paulo's assured me he will get this done before he goes home tonight. So, the the title was doing what you all did was to shift uses from, you know, the approving authority to wherever. So
you're saying it wasn't broad enough to be compliant that that's it was broad it was you you did exactly what the short title said. Okay, which is list of uses and we are changing the approval level or or those changing the approval level of those list of uses. Thank you.
But you just said you weren't going to do that. You were going to give the public some information. We're gonna get an updated draft. Yeah. If we're just going to publish the title after all this, I That's just That's insane.
The purpose of the motion would be to not have to do the new advertisement and the full ordinance will be on the next agenda for the public to see. Thank you, Councilman Kent. No, I'm I'm up for the next item, Chairman. Okay.
I I do need a vote. I don't think I have a vote. Okay. Item nine, discussion to allow what to vote on your Yes. on the date and time. Okay. Uh, all in favor? I. Any opposed?
Thank you. Discussion to allow horseback riding on the beach. Good afternoon, Jessica Fentress, Felicia County Coastal Director. Um, just to remind everybody, May 20th, we received direction from the council to
bring back an item for discussion regarding the potential uh trial area for horseback riding in northern Valuchia County. I'm going to run through this pretty quickly. It's just an outline. Uh, as it relates to regulatory requirements, there is no
direct federal or state prohibition against the activity. Um, you would have to modify the beach code should you choose to implement this because currently the beach code only allows service animals and then dogs in very specific identified areas along our coastlines. And based upon the direction
you provide today, if um we're told to move forward, we will have to have a coordination with the US Fish and Wildlife Service uh on a consult. We did have a preliminary conversation with US Fish and we do believe that it is not an insurmountable task to get there. Um
there is regional precedent throughout uh our portion of Florida with permitted areas in St. John's Flaggler and we currently have horseback riding in Valuchia County right now at Canaveral National Seashore. Um there is no recent history on horses in the beach in Valuchia, so customary use doesn't come
into play, but if you stay below the wetted uh sand, then the public trust doctrine would allow for those activities. You have eight counties that do allow horseback riding. Um they mostly have common requirements. You're required to have permits, designated times and
areas. You provide for trailer parking and you ask that they ride in the low tide areas. Um there are best practices. Basically, you limit how many can be there. You provide them direct shoreline access and then require waste removal by the um horse owner. And they do have
designated entry points and that's mostly for environmental protection and then safety of the animal and rider. You currently can do beach ride or horseback riding at Malacmpra in Flaggler County approximately 50 m miles north of the county line and at Canaveral National
Seashore down in Apollo Beach. When looking at proposing a feasibility of implementing this on the north portion of Valuchia County, there's a couple of pretty significant things we took into consideration. The first one is the health and safety of the horse and the rotor and then also the um
sustainability of our environment. We didn't do anything to denude our natural habitat. So, we looked for areas that had natural grade or sand ramps for beach access. And then the biggest limiting factor was trailer parking. Uh, preferably east of A1A. Um, we would
also recommend that the horses be in non-driving beach areas just so that you don't get into a scenario where a horse might get spooked. And then do it during daylight hours again below the wetted sand and outside of nesting sea turtle season. Um and then we would require
that the horse owners be responsible for the waste removal. We came up with two potential locations that we thought were the best option uh in North Lucia. One is Al Weeks Northshore Park. It's in Orin by the Sea. It is a no driving beach. Uh you have approximately 7 miles of horseback riding if you exclude the
state park and you can provide two trailer spaces and there is an unimproved dirt ramp called the Roberto Road just north of Alaw Weeks Northshore Park. This is the northernmost uh limits of where you have development east of A1A in Orman by the sea.
The other option we have is through the Grace Lutheran uh off beach parking lease. I did have a preliminary conversation with leadership of the church. They are not opposed to the idea. They would like some more information. Um they would like to limit the number of trailers. There's a potential that they would ask for an
increased fee. They want confirmation that the county would clean up all the mess no matter what we required of the the horse owner. Um it would require them to cross Ocean Tour Boulevard. There is a stoplight there with signalized pedestrian crosswalk and then
we did provide a view of the beach access from the beach so you can see what the horse would be required to walk over. Um ultimately what we are looking forward today is where and how would the council like for us to pursue this? if you want us to
pursue this, we can then use that and and start our consult with US Fish and Wildlife Service. Uh specifically, we would need direction on locations, confirmation that you want to do a seasonal restriction outside of turtle nesting season. Uh confirmation that a reservation system that would help us
operationally having a reservation system, and then confirmation that you want the private property or I'm sorry, the horse owner to manage the waste removal. And we would also recommend a slight education 20 30 minute HCP video online just to
make sure the horses stay out of the dune area. And pending direction by the council if you want us to move forward we will go ahead and consult with us fish and then we will come back with a more solid operational plan based on your feedback. Thank you Councilman Kent.
Chairman um if you're okay with it I would rather hear from the public and then speak after them if that's okay. two. It's all you have. Uh John Nicholson, and you'll be followed by Jennifer,
uh Milco, John Nixon, Daytona, Beachside. When I first heard this, I thought it was a joke. All right. Uh yeah, we would never do it. Uh I didn't conceive of it, but the more you think about it, um it adds
one more thing to our tourism industry. Uh there are people that like to ride uh on the beach. It's unique. You see it on many movies. Um using the north end makes sense.
Again, I would absolutely do not want it at the band shell. it's the wrong place for it. So, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I think it's unique, it's doable, and I think it's something that, uh, the county needs. Thank you,
Jennifer. You still here? Yes. Hello. My name is Jennifer Miko. I'm from Orman Beach Unincorporated and I manage and own Equestrian Adventures of Florida Horseback Riding. Just a little bit about my business for perspective. We've been offering horseback rides on
the beach since 2011 in Flaggler County in Palm Coast. We they gave us a designated place to take our horses and we trailer our horses and meet people at a public beach approach. They've also created a path that we can take over the
dunes that keeps us away from the beach business and and the busyiness. We take um we schedule our rides according to low tide. They last about an hour. We take 10 and older. All rides are reservation only. And it's pictures are
included because I ask people not to bring phones or cameras for safety reasons. We take visitors from all over the United States as well as all over the world. It is definitely a bucket list thing. I have had people plan their vacations because of their reservations with our
company. It is I meet the nicest people. We create memories for anniversaries, for birthdays, for special occasions, tourists, and also residents alike. We've been included in the top 10% at
Trip Adviser since 2018. We've been featured in various local magazines as well as outofstate media. In fact, St. John's County just did a cover on us to top 10 things or top things to do in the St. Augustine area. We are featured in
various hotels in Daytona as well as Hammock Beach Resort. I'm often told that people find us on Google by just simply googling what are the best things to do in the Daytona Beach area. Um, we work well with the residents of Hammock Beach and Flaggler. Beachgoers
are thrilled to see and experience horses on the beach. I can't even tell you how many pictures were included in. As a responsible business owner, I make sure my permits are up to date, my coggin are up to date. I make sure as well Flaggler County has a copy of my business insurance.
Safety is the most important thing to me, the safety of my riders, of my horses, and of any beachgoers. Routine safety checks are performed throughout the ride. This is all to say that I think it would be advantageous for Valuchia County to allow horses on the
beach. Valuchia County is already a top tourist attraction. People from all over Florida and the United States come to this county just for the beaches. Clientele that come ride with me are top-notch, very responsible, and they are amazing
people. It could only add to the amount of people coming into Valuchia County. I believe that responsible individual horse owners will also take this privilege very seriously. No one wants to put their horses or community in danger. I'm sure they would be willing to follow
the rules that Valuchia County puts in place for this privilege. And I know that from social media, the biggest concern is picking up after the horses. I actually get on and off my horse each time. I have a t-shirt bag. Sorry, I'm out.
Do you want me to finish? Uh, you're out of out of time. Well, let me know if you have any questions and thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you very much for coming in. Uh, Troy Kent. Thank you, Chairman. If if the council's okay, I'm I'm gonna I might have a
couple questions and also my comments will be well under five minutes. Um, I might be able to speed this along for the council. So, I'll just I'll just tell you all I have no horse in this race. I don't own any horses. Um, I'm glad you like that. And and also,
council, we're either going to be a yay or a nay tonight. Sure. Would you like me I've been waiting all night for that. Would you like me to make a motion and and we can get into that? Sure. I'll make a motion to uh uh for for discussion at this point
until we can agree on a a direction. That way we can open up the comments. Thank you. Second to discuss for discussion. Second ite. Fine. Motion to approve. Approve what? Nice. We don't we have no idea what we're
approving. I um I I'll just tell you, you know, my my the things I like about it and things I'm concerned about it. So, I do think this adds something to Valuchia County. I think that there are people that it is a bucket list item.
They'd like to participate in it. Um they'd like to do they'd like to do that. I love the uh PowerPoint. The first picture looks like they're probably in Costa Rica. I love the honesty. There was a picture of some horse mess on the beach. I appreciate that that as well because it's something
we need to talk about. Council, if we were to approve this, I would I would only approve it if we mandated that the horses wore a bag because not everybody's like a Jennifer who's going to wait for four, five hours to talk tonight and then gets off her horse and
cleans up after every single person. Not everybody's like that. So, they would have to wear a bag if we were to approve this. And then I'm going to talk to you for just a quick moment about the locations. So, the first one is the Northshore Park. I I I love that it's on the east side of A1A. I can't stand that
it's going to take up 18 parking spots. I'm not okay with that. I'm okay with nine parking spots if we could agree with it. I'm okay with one horse trailer. And the reason being is they have to be registered. They have to register 48 hours with staff so we know who's coming. Okay? And there's also a
lifeguard centralized tower right there so they could participate in that. The other location, the Grace Lutheran Church. I really love the amount of parking they have. I cannot stand that they have to cross A1A. That's less than
ideal. It scares me. I'm not crazy about that. I said, I might have a question or two. My my first question is why did we not think about if we're going to cross A1A, why not Bsentennial Park? There's lots of parking up there. And the other location is why not Hybridge? So,
Hybridge on the east side of A1A, they've got spots there and uh you know, maybe it's because that's FDOT's and that's not ours is my answer to my question. Hybrbridge is actually the state park. So, it would be under their authority. We wouldn't have the ability to make that as an option on their park amenity.
Um the reason we didn't consider bsentennial is we don't have a natural path to get down on the beach at that location. They'd have to go down the wooden ramp and or they would go down a very steep dune and not have a safety buffer between the
top of the dune and the road, right? Yeah. So, I if we were going to do this because I'm telling you, I I I have hesitation with horses crossing A1A and there is a light there and I'm appreciative of that, but I'm concerned with it. I don't think it's ideal. If we
were going to do it for me, it would be one of the sections of Alw Week's Northshore Park. So, we're not taking up 18 spaces, but taking up nine spaces. Um, I I could I could stomach that and if we did a trial period to see how it
was. I would also say that my preference would be that the um horse riders would travel north. So, they would they would get on the beach. Right there, you can see the the map at Roberto Road. they would be able to walk down on the beach and then they would travel north. They
must have a bag to catch their mess. Um, and then everything else that that you've laid out, I think is very well thought out. And you know, this this can work. I I've received some emails with some fear-mongering with, you know, the horses hooves are going to be turning
the sand over. I think my hooves turn the sand over when I walk in the beach. you know, the thousands of people that are doing that, you know, come on. Um, the horses are going to run through the fishing lines. Come on. I mean, you're just you're just
trying to scare people because you don't want something like that. And if we have enough room for one trailer, how many horses can be down there at one time? And we're going to have time limits with the turtle nesting season, you know, all very wellthoughtout things. But council,
this just opens up Valuchia County beaches a little bit more um for other activities. And like I said, I've got no horse in this race. I don't own a horse. My family and I, we don't go horseback riding. Uh this was brought to me by a few constituents and we talked about it
and I said, "You know what? Let me bring it to the council and see what these gentlemen think." Thank you, council. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. um Troy, you know, I think this is um
can be a great idea. I'll tell you why. We have in Southeast Valuchia down in the seashore and also uh there's um a company Rusty Spur that does it out of Oak Hill as well. Do you know how many complaints I've got in five years?
Zero. They're good people. They care about it, especially if it's their livelihood. uh they're not going to risk that. So, you know, diversification is good and we have to look at everything
and convenience as well. Um and I asked the question, why not with a lot of the stuff, why not, right? To get to that yes that Jake talks about, to get to that yes that a lot of us do. And uh you know uh a lot
of the reasoning um why I support like the dog beach for instance uh is cuz we have that down in my district. I know how popular it is. So why do people from Orund have to come down here? So my thought process on this
just wasn't created. There's other people doing it. Why not? Why not make it more convenient for people in Daytona? They can go south or they can go north. Whatever is closer. But now we have or the potential to have these activities and we're not going to make everybody
happy, but we try and this is part of trying. But we have them at both sides of our county if this goes through. So at the end of the day, we can get through all this this stuff. I'm not I'm not too worried about it. It works in my
district. If it keeps our kids outside, if it keeps this um lifestyle or passion or love that these kids can um get with it beats any day inside on
an iPad or uh Nintendo or whatever the heck they're playing these days. Um that's my thought on it. I'll support whatever direction you want to go. Councilman Johansson. Hey, I have a quick question. I Jessica,
how do we know how many horse riders or uh how many people have been down at Canaveral? Yes, sir. I spoke with the um ranger this morning and just for some awareness there there is an entry fee that does apply to the entry into Canaveral
Seashore um and then a special use permit of $75 in addition to the entry fee for each occurrence. Uh they have approximately 20 horse riders a season. Um it's it's not an overly popular
activity there and I will say that Canaveral Seashore does have the ability through their management plan to close the beach on, you know, with no advanced notice to horse riding. If a turtle nest or a protected shorebird shows up, they just shut it down completely. Got it.
Um Yes, sir. All right. Um, since we're in question and comments, I'll throw my comments in. Thank you, Jessica. I'm done. Um, I like the idea. I I like that that we
we are willing to try it on a kind of a temporary basis to see how it goes. Um uh I don't think I care either way because uh with with the uh areas
um because if if they're crossing the road with horses, there's going to be a stoplight. They're not just going to take a chance and run across the road. It's a lot safer when you do it when you're supposed to be walking across the road and there's a light there if I recall right. So, um,
uh, I like the I I like it. I just don't want it to cost the county a lot of money. I want it to be self- sustaining and and the fact that we don't have garbage, we don't have clean up. Um, and and the parking is already taken care
of. Um, and and they'll they'll get a lecture or a class on how to do it. Um, I'd imagine that you would chat with the lady Jennifer that spoke earlier uh about what type of fees, you probably already know what type of fees Flagler
charges um uh and stay in line with them, but but I like it for a tourism perspective. Uh so I'll I'll be for moving forward with this based on on where it best suits us. Thank you. Vice
Chair Reinhardt, I'm sorry. Uh yeah, he deferred to you. We don't know where you are. Thank you. Um Danny, I was trying to understand um you mentioned Oakill, but what beach?
It's right there on um on the way to uh Good Riches. It's not like one of our typical beaches though, right? No, it's a it's a city. It's a city location. And uh but I mean it's not like a new Simra Beach or Bthoon Beach or that prime location. I mean there's a city dock there and
what happens is they they pull the truck off. They unload unload four or five horses from what I can see off the truck right into the Halifax. Take it inter coastal. Inter coastal. Yeah. Okay. So it's not the it's not the same then what we're proposing here. I just want to make sure I understand.
Uh location wise, no. But uh sensitive areas in terms of uh the mosquito lagoon. Yes. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Uh around some residents and restaurants. Yes. And it's highly popular and they're swimming through the water. I mean it's
I'll buy you a ticket. No, no, no. I believe you. I I was because I never heard of Oakill Beach, so I was trying to figure out where the heck that was. No, it's it's it's it's a park down there. Um Um Yeah. You know, I think the difference for me, and I'll just use your example, Danny, you know, I was I think I was the
only no vote, I think, the first time. Um I I I just don't want to take away more beach from our residents. Um when we have, you know, some popular event and and big holidays, those beaches are full and they're jam-packed with cars.
Um and I I don't want to take away more beach from the folks. Um, I I understand the the tourism thing, but I don't think people are searching on Google, where can I fly to to do horses in the beach. I I I think it's more like I'm going to
Daytona. Where can I find horses on the beach? Right. Oh, it's in Lake County or Flaggler County. I don't think I'm looking for horse destinations, but I I may be wrong. I may be wrong. Um I I don't subscribe to the tourism boom piece to it.
Um what and and I'm not saying people won't use it. Certainly people will use it. Um my my main concern are twofold is I don't think the bags will work but I'm not a horse guy either too. I could see those. I've seen them walking with
if they got that bag and they're jumping along in the water this the stuff could still come out I think. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Um and I don't want to mix that. It's very different location. if I can just really with with the bags just since you since
you bring it up they do tend to shift a little bit just so that everybody's informed and um also there was some concern brought up um previously when we were talking through this about the potential of them getting kind of bogged down in the water uh if they happen to
be in the water in addition to um horses if they're private citizens horses um and not properly trained might get spooked a little bit easier with the bags as spooked with cars too was Well, just because Yeah, it's I get you. I There's too many of the
variables. I I see the negative more than the positive and I don't see it as a necessity um to the success of our tourism. I just and I don't want to take away any more beach from our residents. That's that's just my thoughts. Can he get that ticket for him to ride
that horse across the river? Councilman, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. So, I had a few questions. Um, David, first off, let me say this that I was on the same line as you. Uh, because we're looking at probably in the future
trying to add beach driving a little bit more, add this, add that, and yet we're going to take away nine miles uh of beach for this um tourist destination. Yeah, it adds to it, but if there's not that many people, how much more is it going to add? I will tell you this. Um,
when I came in, when I first heard this is coming, I I agreed to let it come back as a discussion, but uh, I've been a firm no, but young lady, you at least had me open to my eyes. U, I will take
what you said into consideration. So, you brought up some very good points. Um, that being said, you're one person and so, uh, and I appreciate that and I appreciate the fact that you stayed here all night to do that. Thank you very much. Um, so it didn't go unnoticed. The
other thing when we had the dog beach, if you remember, I was against the dog beach and when this area was packed with people for the dog beach that made an impact on me and then I've s yet since seen the success and I'll tell you right
now that we're talking about a second one. I know we're, you know, I'm more in line with that now because I've seen the success of it. And you had a group of of uh people that came here, the dog beaches uh group that were willing to go in there and clean it up and take care
of the beach and it added to it. So, but I don't see a group per se coming before us for this. Um so there was uh the beach less beach. The the other thing I I agree um I do not want to see them crossing A1A. Yes, you have a light. How
many times have we seen pedestrians get hit when there's a light? The lights blink and the light's red. I can go right now and go through A1A and Daytona Beach Shores and I guarantee I can count on two hands how many cars run those lights. So, the light that that does
improve safety to me. Um, as far as Yes, you know, I think we all got hammered with the emails about this. Uh, and I agree some of the things that were said were a little bit out. I don't see that happening. I really don't. But what I took interest in is the fact that
if I got 40 emails, 40 of them were against us. When we were going through the dog beach, there was a mixture. When we were going through other things, motocross, Don, there was a mixture. There was no
mixture to this. So, you know, rented seats in the famous words of my my counterpart down there, what the public wants. I don't see the public really wanting this. So, um, Mr. Chairman, point of order.
Oh, timewise, our meeting is technically expired. I'll make a motion to extend the meeting. Um, 30 minutes. 30 minutes. Okay. Is there a second? Second. A motion by Troy Kent to extend the meeting till 10:30, seconded by Vice
Chair Reinhardt. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you. And I'll make it short, guys. I'm sorry. Um, you do see it on TV and stuff, but I noticed on those beaches that they're completely open. There's no people there. So, um, I do understand,
uh, I I have another important question. Who's going to regulate it? Is that going to add staff man? Yeah, mates. No, we got them enough doing the So that Well, that would be uh we don't enforce on the beach. Exactly. So, you're So, we're adding
sheriff's office the sheriff's office to this without them bringing they they are they involved in the conversation at all. Staff would have to manage the reservation system and the fee acceptance system, but the sher So, that's still an additional duty. Something we don't do right now. Yes, sir. Okay. So, that is an added function.
Force the ordinance requirements to do ABCD and to do it. Okay, fair enough. But that's still an added. Okay. Thank you. So, um, anyways, I'll defer to my counterparts to see if they can convince me otherwise. Thank you, Jessica. Uh, two other quick questions.
Um, you talked about the South Beach um down by the Canaveral Seashore. Is um I didn't hear you say, you probably said it, I didn't. Uh, is there is there a reservation system there? How many are you getting?
Yes, sir. So the key restrictions at Canaver National Seashore, they are closed starting on April 15th. They open back up on October 31st. You have a maximum of six horses and two trailers per reservation. There are two time slots available, 9:00
a.m. to 1 and 1 to 5. Horses must be led, not ridden over the boardwalk. They're not allowed to access the dunes. They're not allowed to grage. Uh owner must provide all forage and water. owners are responsible for newer removal from all areas. The ranger did say that
was a problem with enforcement. Um, and then it's subject to cancellation obviously because of conditions and weather. And how many reservations are you getting? They said they were getting approximately 20 a season. 20 horses a season. Okay. At a time
about six months. Yeah. April 15 through October 31. How many horses at one time? Any any idea? Maximum six horses in two trailers per reservation. But are you are you getting that many at one time?
I I believe they are. I believe there are oneoff excursions. I'm okay. Um and are we suggesting this? Probably the staff is waiting for us to tell them. Is this going to be like this woman said a concession or are we just talking about private residents in their
own trailers and private horses? We would recommend not to have a concession so that we're not involved in the welfare of animals. What do you want, Mr. Kent? I wanted both. I I want if you own a horse, you should you're able to make a reservation and go down and if you're a
company and you want to offer a horseback riding down there, you should be able to do that as well. A a county managed concession or a third party problem. No, no, no. I'm I'm talking about, you know, there may be a there may be a fee that they pay the county like they pay
the park that you're talking about. There's a fee that everybody pays, not just the company, but anybody that owns a horse that wants to go down. So, yeah, I'm not talking about a full-blown county concession. But I don't think that we should be saying to a business,
you you can't come and do this. You just have to be a individual horse owner. Okay. Um, just a couple other I I don't know where I am on this, Troy. I'm in a bad spot. When I go home
tonight, I'm going to have four horses in our barn that my kids have already brought up and fed, and I'll spend some time with it. I'm going to need it tonight. And a and a a tall u um IPA. Um
the it absolutely can't be on the east side of the the road. Horses don't follow red lights. The west side of the road horses can't follow red lights and they they may um I
we have really well-trained horses and even better trained riders. My my wife does Dr. riding. My wife has been thrown from a horse and the horse gashed up his leg because he freaked out at some uh
water in front of him over a path. Um so crossing a street with cars that are whizzing by up there um just it wouldn't it wouldn't be safe. Sanitation is the big problem. Um I agree with you that
they'd have to have bags. I'm not sure. Saf would have to come back and tell us I don't think a horse can run with a bag um and or or jump or or anything else. Maybe that's a good thing, but it's you know it works in St. Augustine when
they're pulling carts. Um I'm not sure it's it's going to work uh with just a free horse. Angela Mun, director of animal services. But uh just to answer your question, sir, thank you. They can run only because I've seen them spooked and physically
they can run but um it's discouraged and I think it would only go to spook them further. Who discourages it? You mean the bag discourages the horse from running? No, I would like discourage it because you know the likelihood that it goes to spook them further. I would discourage
it based on them galloping or anything. Typically in trail rides they're not going beyond a certain speed. side. So, how do we deal with sanitation? What happens to the bag? What's inside the bag? Great big What was that, sir? What happens to what's inside the bag when they're running?
Uh, it gets thrown everywhere. Um, but I will say just as a previous mounted unit deputy, um, we did not utilize the bags because of the dipping. Um, it would fall out periodically. Um, and so we did actually get off our horses as well, um, and would go pick
up. So, I'm assuming I I'm not going to assume anything that you you may hear from the council that we would require the horseback rider to stop and pick up horse manure. That That's correct. And like everything
else on our beach, if it is made if the county is made aware of it, we will remove that as well. Okay. Ultimately, um it's, you know, we we are getting a lot of email on this. Uh vice chair is
right. I I haven't gotten any in favor. I've got some in favor verbally from people at my house. Um, so, um, but from the public that uses that beach, and I understand it, they're
they're afraid. Horses are large animals, and they, even well-trained horses, can be unpredictable in a strange environment, which the beach is, uh, to them. So, I I really have
concerns about it. I don't know how we manage it. And I I actually can see horses running through uh lines with people fishing. Um it depends on the rider and it depends on the horse. But so there's a lot of variables that we
would have to um we would have to find a way to manage just for the safety of the people that are there enjoying the beach. um and uh that aren't for this. Anyway, so um th those are my concerns.
I'm not sure how we we get there yet. Um Troy Kent, thank you chairman. All good concerns and um part of that healthy conversation and and just to our vice chair, u Mr. Reinhardt, I just wanted to tell you because you're worried about them taking cars, you know, off of the beach. This area north of Granada, there
are no cars on the beach. Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I I hear you. I just don't think that they're I would love it if they would open up cars more north of Granada, but I don't think that's not that's in the cards with the federal take permit for for that to happen. Um, and then staff, if this does if this
does get some approval for you to bring it back to us to vote on. I I'm just curious looking at this picture of Alw Week's Northshore Park. There's some green space directly in front of the parking and I'm wondering, you know, why couldn't horse trailers pull up right
there, you know, just just unload right there in the in that green space and save some of those spots because I also agree that it would be more ideal to have it on the east side. With that being said, council, I'll make a motion to um have staff bring I haven't heard
from Don yet. I'm sorry, Don. I'm going to make a motion. um a motion to have staff bring this back to us with some options and I'm not going to take either location out. I think both locations we
should talk about as a council. Um, at a minimum I I would like to see uh the bag placed on the on the horse and I would also like for um the the riders to have to stop and
pick up if anything falls out of the back. Um that's my motion. Is there a second on a motion? Yeah. Just to confirm, sir, you want to do it from Northshore Park North to um Flagler line.
The state park state park limits. Yep. State park limits. Chair, may I just make a comment before I I I second? Yeah. And and also I was going to say yes, Northshore Park, but I also said um let's look at the other location, Grace
Lutheran, because even though I don't want them crossing A1A, they've got a really good parking situation there. And they weren't a hard no on that. Just it won't hurt to come back and we can, you know, we can hash that out.
Okay. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. Um guys, listen. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to um support uh Mr. Ken on something that's successful down in in in my area that I don't hardly hear anything uh
about. Um but sometimes too on on some of these emails you can use them uh to judge to a point, right? Uh but sometimes too uh sometimes no answer is your answer. uh in in some of the cases
that we um uh get uh when there's no objection uh so different than us when somebody else says something why are we going to say it and repeat it. So um the you know like anybody I don't want to take away 9
miles of beach uh but to me this adds nine miles of beach and I'll tell you why. Um, horses and people can coexist. We proved it uh when we did or tried the
dogs on the beach. My suggestion, my suggestion is to possibly follow possibly that model where we say, "Hey, come back with some rules and regs. Let's see if we can solicit possibly a
group if these folks can get together where they can police themselves. It's working with the dog beach. I haven't had one complaint, right? In terms of cleanliness. These folks, this is what they do. They love this. They enjoy it. But I'm not opposed I'm not opposed to
having a trial period. If it comes back a disaster, I don't think you'll M Mr. Ken may say, "Hey, um, you know what, guys? We tried it. We gave it a shot. Let's put a 12-month uh stamp on this thing. But but but you guys are right
when it comes to the safety and crossing. I mean, horses are just like a motorcycle. It's not uh if it's when uh but there's an inherent risk like with them. Uh just like there is with a vehicle, just like there is with a
motorcycle, just like you you cross the street, if you don't follow direction with the crosswalk, you get hit by a Mac truck. Uh, so people do have a lot of, you know, responsibility, but I think it can be handled. Uh, we're not talking about a lot of numbers here. Mr. Ken, take it as you wish. Um, if we can pack
a package together, maybe we can get it across the line for at least a trial. Yeah. And chairman, if you're okay, I would I would ask staff in my motion. I think it should come back as a trial period. So So please, you have six up six months. Is that what you're saying?
you know, because it's a six-month amount of time that they can be on the beach. I'm I'm fine with that actually as a trial. That way, we'll have, you know, some data to come back and and uh and make a decision either, you know, up or down at at that time. Um even though I did mention both sites, I think staff
should look at them, but I I do agree with what I've heard about east side is better. So that Northshore Park and I do like the idea of them heading north to the uh state park line there. And would was there is there a second to
his motion? Second by Councilman Robbins. Okay. Don Dempsey. I don't dare not support Troy at this time. No. My uh my question for staff though, do the equin protection laws
still apply to this? Mike, do you have an ecoin lawyer on staff? We um can we maybe get some clarification on what exactly you're looking? Well, you know, for well, Jeff probably knows the horse owners, you know, if you
have an equ if you have a sign up, you're protected from liability if somebody gets hurt. I just want to kind of make sure that we're still with under that umbrella. We can report back to let us look at that and we'll report back to you on that. Fair enough. Yes. Yes, Don. There is AI just told me
there is. There is. Okay. Thank you, AI. Um and then um the only other thing is is it possible we could explore I know with the motorcycle thing we're doing different options of how it's going to be operated. Could we do this as a
public private partnership or something of that nature? So, we have a a partner who's going to ensure that the the horse poop's going to be picked up and that everybody's going to be operating safely and then do it by appointment only type of scenario where we don't have
everybody rushing to the beach on a Saturday morning that it actually has to be by appointment. So, there's kind of with 48 Yeah. in like a some sort of booking procedure online where you can book in and get your slot and even, you know, something like that. Is that something we could ask staff to explore
as well? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. That's all. Uh David Santiago, last bite. It looks like I'm in the minority. Maybe maybe my the my friend has got the same haircut. We're going to be part of this club. Um but uh Danny,
you I was looking for to you to sell me, but I got to tell you, you sold me most of the night, but using Oak Hill is not is apples and oranges. You know what I mean? to say that it works well there and it's going to work well on the regular beach, but it's not busy over there. It's not like a Valuchia Beaches, I'm guessing. I
I don't know. I don't know how busy it is up in the north end of Dodge either. How not busy over there? I would say it it is busier than on the south end. Um but there's such limited parking. the the people that are are
utilizing that beach, most of them live up there and they walk from the north peninsula where they live down to the beach. So, you're saying not a lot of like from the west side, I'll just use that example, drive over to that area and go to that beach. Certainly not.
All right. Well, um there's such limited parking, David. There's only a few places on the east side of A1A that you can park that the state has some areas they've got a ton of no parking signs, but there's and staff, correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, up in Or by the Sea, there's just such limited spaces
where if you're not living in that area, it's very difficult for you to find a parking spot there. Gotcha. And I guess um I'm I'm still going to stay no because the the amount of participation we're getting where we have one already is low. Maybe it's because of the location. I don't know.
But I don't see this as a huge industry that's going to be uh impactful for us to put so much resources and planning behind it. We got a other fish to fry. So, and I don't want to take away more beach regardless. I'd rather open more beach like like you were saying, Matt.
So, thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm ready to vote. Councilman Johansson. Uh Jessica, one last question as as we're going through this. Um, you know, most of the people that sent us email, a lot of them talk about it's a very busy beach. You know, Troy just mentioned it
was busy, but can't we control when the horses are there and not by reservation saying look July 4th? No. U in any other time it's busy. Um uh and and is there
any other way to control to to give them some some schedule, but maybe not half a day and a half a day? I I I just nine miles of trying to get David to Yes. Nine miles of beach,
four or six horses. Um as long as they self clean. Um, uh, I'm thinking that's not as big of an impact as we think it is, especially if it's
20 horses in six months. Now, if Jennifer comes and and brings her six horses every other day, it's it's a different story. Um, but but I I I don't know. I'm I'm I'm back to torren
here because I I I see the the issues, but but I also want to try to try to get us there to just to move it forward to see if it works and to see if it's going to cost us money and and to see if if we can control it enough that
it's something that we can all agree on. I don't know. I if I may, the reason that the the six horse um limit was in place at Canaveral, the the location that Canaveral has is basically an open maintenance yard. There's no improved parking. It's just a clearing and
there's ample room and space for the trailers and the horses to be tied up and and accommodated. I don't believe we can sustain horses at um utilizing one parking area of that. I we probably limited it two um per reservation. That's even better. Yeah. and and if we
know it's there, we can have check-ins. We can do a trash patrol immediately after. We don't have any major holidays other than Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's and maybe Easter, depending upon where it falls. Well, yes, Easter will always fall before May 1st. So, yeah, I just I don't see the impact of
of two horses, but thanks. Don't go. One last question for you that uh think about the I haven't been up there recently to the northshore. U actually two questions the secant wall
eventually going to come down there. No sir. Well good. It will go through the area that uh Councilman Ken is proposing to have his horseback riding area up to the state park because there is a the Marlin Capri portion of Orman by the Sea is getting the sea camp wall. So you would have
horseback riding in front of it, but it would not come down to the park. Okay. So part of it would have that wall. So that brings my next question. Is there enough beach or is this does this have to be time or tide restricted as well? Well, just kind of so where the seaant
wall is going, there is also going to be a beach nourishment seawward to the seaant wall to basically bury it when it's finished. And it's going to be planted. And Mr. Kent can attest to this. The winter in Orman by the Sea is very brutal where you have higher than high tides. Uh typically you start getting your
norers in the January through March portion of our year. So I think you've got about half of the year you've got usable space. As long as we put them on the lower portion of the tide, there's going to be days that you're not going to be able to ride because you've got a midday high tide that's going to conflict with the reservation time
period. So about every other weekend you'd have the ability availability to do it. If you are an athome rider, you just have to schedule around the tides and we're just going to have to manage that reservation system. Okay. And you're you probably anticipated that. That should part be
part of the information that comes back to I did and and I felt like staff would bring that back, chairman. And also when you're looking at where the horse trailer can go, I mean, it's not it's not like there's going to be 30 horses there. Can't we can't accommodate that. So, you know, the other thing though is
is, you know, it's a little shocking to hear there could just be only two, you know, like, well, what are what are we doing? You know, like really I said really, right? So, I look forward to hearing what staff, you know, is saying and I might change my mind instead of the one section to two sections, but I
also wanted to look at that grassy area in front. You know, there's some options. Not that we're going to I don't want to spend any money to make any changes to the grassy area, but why can't a a horse trailer park on the grassy area? I don't see why. I'll just I'll just say this and then uh
Danny Robbins wanted to speak that I'm I'm not there yet just because there's so many questions that you've asked and all of us asked, but I cannot vote responsibly without having the answers to those questions. So, I want that's that's what I'm trying
to say. So, I I I can't vote a no for it until I hear all the information that they bring back and see if they and and all of us agree that it could work. I don't know yet, but so I have to hear the information. Um, Councilman
Robbins, I I chair, this is uh probably two or three times in one night. I I agree with you. We can't uh shoot it down um because we need more information. But to put this in just a little perspective, how many emails we get? 20
25. We have 110,000 people. 110,000 people in our districts and 570,000 people in our in our beautiful uh horsefriendly uh county. So when you look at things like
this uh with a lot of our decisions, I think we can uh uh look at getting some more information on this. I'm not saying one way or the other, you know, I agree with it, but there may be some things that come up and if there's something bad,
Mr. Kent may not even vote for this. Come on, David. 30 second response, Mr. Chair, if I can't No, denied. 30 second. If Mr. Sure. The the difference there is is of whatever the half a million people with 100 thousand I'm going to go out on a limb and
probably say 60% of them have dogs, right? The difference is I don't know what percent, but I'm going to believe that it's under in single digits. That's the difference. I can include in the motion to uh include Howland Boulevard and Deltona for this as well.
Troy, let me try and let me make sure I have everything captured in this motion. You want where are the two locations? Discussion on that information on that sanitation. How do we provide and require that um uh you
wanted to see concessions and just private people. Um and then of course that the staff will tell us time limits, times of the years, tides, all the stuff that you have to manage there. Um and
then uh in a trial basis and I want staff to look at the grassy area at Al Week's Northshore Park. Got it. Okay. Okay. That's the uh motion. Um
down one. Oh, here he is. Okay. All in favor of the motion on the floor say I. I. Any opposed? Nay. Was there two? Yes. I tried my horse voice. No, David. Okay. All right.
Five to uh two with Vice Chair Reinhardt and uh David Santiago voting no. The information. Thank you for sticking with me, Matt. Yes, sir.
Thank you all. We're giving you a lot of homework. Okay, we've got uh four minutes. Do we want to try and make some uh Sure. And then we're going to have to skip all
the closing remarks. Okay. Item 10, District Three, District 4 and District 5, appointments to the cultural board. Uh district three, give me just a second here.
Marie Downey and Sarah Casey Blaton. Marie Downey for district three. And you have Mr. Hart and Mr. Sanchez. Mr. Yep. Uh David Hart, District 4.
David Hart for Troy Kent. Five. Caroline Shine. Motion to approve. Shine. Shine. That's right. Second. Johansson. Any questions? All in favor say I.
I. Any opposed? And they are confirmed. Uh seven to zero. Uh item 11, one appointment to the Valuchia Growth Management Commission. I believe we have one applicant. Correct. And his term expired June 30th.
He's just seeking reappoint. And then so we we need to do something with him, but you're still going to need two more applicants. Correct. Correct. There are two vacancies on the board aside from Does anybody want to confirm the current applicant or nominate the current applicant?
Um, I can make that nomination. Second. As long as he's in good standing. And what's his name? Mr. Melazowski. I always wanted you to say it, not me. Malazoski.
Okay. All right. Uh Danny Robbins. Oh, that that was it. Chair. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? He's confirmed. Uh 7 to zero. One appointment to the Valuchia County Industrial Development Authority.
Mr. Sharpel's term expired July 19th. Um any council member can make the nomination. And you have two applicants. Mr. Sharpel is the incumbent and Mr. Ernest. I nominate Kent Sharples. Second.
Uh D Johansson nominates Ken Sharples. And who was a second by? Danny Robbins. Mr. Robbins. Second was by Danny Robbins. And um and the Valuchia County Industrial Development Authority. Um, I'm I'm not
going to be I know Ken. I've visited with him. I'm not going to be able to support him on this. I I don't believe he brings the uh the uh same perspective on development that the entire council does. So,
but all all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? I. Chairman, point of order. Yes. What's your point? We're coming up on our time limit and we had some residents that stayed here till the end. Um, I was going to have a comment for
them, but I'd like to hear from everybody. I wanted to see if the council was willing to extend the meeting for 15 more minutes to 10:45 after we heard from the public and then if we could all be very brief. Motion to extend for 15 minutes. There a second.
I'll second it. Make sure we're brief on our comments so we could all get in. 10:45. Uh, all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And we do have three members of the public. Let's start with them. Uh John, do you mind going
first again? Is Gary Singleton still here? I think he left. So, we only have two. John Nicholson Beachside. With regard to the horses, eight counties are
successful at it. It means it works. Two, you had a woman here who does it. You never asked her how many people or how many horses and how often she uses it in Flaggler. You asked for the Cape
Canaveral that charges $75. $75 could be a reason why. And because of the location, it's not used as often. All right. Um I think we we really need to to see um how it works. All right.
And why you're saying that we can't have people on the beach the same time we have horses on the beach. If we can have cars on the beach with people and we can have dogs on the beach with be people, why not horses? Especially so few. All right. Uh and lastly, I know you you're
going to say it's none of your business. It's um you don't want to get involved with the city, etc., etc., But I think I've made my point that Daytona Beach is crucial to the economic well-being of
the county and they're reszoning uh tomorrow night. All right. It's been 15 years since the last resoning. That's a long time. There is districts they're proposing tomorrow night one district will have 27,000
people and the other district will have 11. You're not supposed to do that. They're supposed to be equal and 27,000 and 11,000 are not equal. Also, it's been years since you were allowed to do gerrymandering,
racial gerrymandering. You remember Karine Brown, Jacksonville, down 95 to Daytona Beach, down I4 to Spring Hill, down I4 to Orlando. That's no longer acceptable. Daytona Beach spent three
and a half hours using race to make their zones. Three and a half hours discussing nothing about moving nothing but moving black people from one zone to the other to give it an advantage to the black population. All right, that was
acceptable 20 years ago. It's no longer acceptable and they are going to do it tomorrow. So, I'm asking you to get involved because it's illegal. They were already sued once last year over the way they did it. It's
been a hundred years since we had corruption in Daytona Beach. Armstrong 100 years ago, the governor had to come down to remove our mayor. I don't want that to happen again. I don't want to be sued again. So, please, if you can be
involved, it really is crucial for the county to be involved. And I would like you to put somebody back on the uh CRA, the Main Street CRA. There used to always be a county council member. Please put one back on. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh Jim Shepard, you've been here since 4:00. Yes, sir. Jim Shepard, District 1. Um, you heard me this this afternoon, I guess I was going to say this morning, but I forgot to mention that 12 of 29 homes that were
built without fire sprinklers were built by Miranda. Miranda being a developer. Okay. I just want to ask that the same rules that you apply the same rules to me that you apply to Miranda. And the staff knows about this, but
there's yet another application for a building permit that was submitted June 19th. That's about two months ago at this point for 3505 Dunstable. The bu the building permit was issued last week, but it has not been tagged with
the fire protection language and there's no fire permit. Um, so the builder is is the same builder as 3501 Dunstable. People have put in a home without fire fire sprinklers. I'm
told that the owner is voluntarily putting in fire sprinklers. Voluntarily spend $15,000 on fire sprinklers. Come on. Um, you'd heard me allege that that uh the
staff is playing favorites with developers. Carissa, can you put up the overhead, please? While we're waiting, I'll say something. My wife would like to know if the other if the 29 other homes that were built without fire sprinklers had
to go through through the same thing that we're having to go through. We got the uh overhead Okay, so this is the headline in in Sunday's paper. It was actually not a headline, I guess, but it was on page four
of the news journal. Valuchia fumes over new law favoring developers. How do you think my wife and I feel when you play favorites with the developers? I've been asked advised to file an appeal and ask for non-binding
interpretation of the code. The problem is that I've not been provided with anything by fire services citing the the part of the plan that does not comply the section of the code or language of the code. I can't file a an appeal or
move forward with appeal uh without this information. That's in Florida statute 633.208. I know this isn't going to happen, but I'm going to ask for it anyway. I'd like for the council to ask for an independent investigation of this matter
and report back to the county manager and county council. Thank you. Thank you. That's the uh end of public comments. Um Mr. Kent, you were first today. We're not going to let staff
I'm fine going right now. I'm going to be less than 90 seconds. Um, George Jim Shepard just spoke, but I had a note here. I wanted to find out about those 29 homes and why he's treated unfairly. He mentioned someone named Rachel um about their home. They sold
their home. Nine months later, he said that the new builder, owner, developer got a CEO doesn't have sprinklers in it. I need information on that. Please share it with the entire council. That one's done. George or Ryan Assowski? I've got three quick ones if you can answer. With
Pearson ending their policing contract with the sheriff in November, are they, the town of Pearson, relying on resources dedicated to the unincorporated citizens? Well, that's question depending on how the sheriff's department uh would manage
it, but uh Ryan can go over the finances of how that that contract works. And Ryan, while you're there, I'll do my second question. It seems like Pearson wants police services, but they're not willing to pay for them, and now the county must supplement them. Is that is that sound right?
So, the sheriff's office is funded with law enforcement mill, MSD millage as a transfer into the law enforcement fund, and then they also provide us back all the contract revenue that they have. If that contract revenue does not come in, then there is a deficit. And that
deficit would end up being made up by the law enforcement fund, not the MSD. We've been work I've been working with uh Brian Henderson uh talking about what we do with this matter. And um we're going to we're going to need the
sheriff's office to actually account for some cost related to this cuz there is some provisions where we should not use um unincorporated area taxes to subsidize incorporated area services. So that means that it would fall to the law
enforcement fund. So, in other words, all countywide residents will end up being taxed for uh the the provision of the basic law enforcement services that would be provided in Pearson. That's what I thought. And I saw that the news
was reporting where Pearson claims they collectively already pay over $100,000 to the county for the sheriff's office through their adorum um taxes. Can you talk to that point? Yeah. So, I'm like I mentioned at the beginning, there's three major funding sources for the sheriff's office. Their
contracts, their law enforcement mill, and the transfer from the MSD. I know the the countywide uh law enforcement mill uh pays for countywide services. The residents of Pearson pay into the law enforcement fund, as do all city residents. That pays for countywide
services such as court security, the major crimes unit, narcotics, those types of countywide services. There are patrol units that we do a transfer from the MSD and the unincorporated area pays for that. Ryan, thank you very much. I'm going to stop you there. Thank you, chairman.
If you can give us a summary email on that, probably be better, too. Yeah, and I think the point is like he said, major crimes get co covered uh by uh the general fund or the law enforcement fund now. Uh but what they
won't have is patrol because patrol is what we do. Uh that's the city-like service that's occurred, you know, throughout all the cities. They will not have that um uh going forward. Thank you, uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Uh Mr. Kent, thank you
for bringing that up because I was actually going to ask the same question with respect to that. And uh I guess my understanding is that you have an area just north of there that does fall under the MSD. So that is patrolled under that. So that would literally take that
deputy away to respond to calls in the city of Pearson. Number one. Number two, that the entire county is offsetting the cost for the operation of police services in the city of Pearson, which I have issue with as well. So I did want to bring that up. So I'm glad you asked those questions and
brought it up as well. Other than that, Mr. Chair, I have nothing else. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. Uh, a couple quick things. Uh, as you guys remember, we created a uh LI LI voluntary handbook. Uh, and as you saw
last week, Mr. Woods did a in that whoever that engineer was did a phenomenal job. I think I had unanimous support that never happens, right? Even though, you know, by our wetland standards, all that stuff, we are following the rules. We don't have the wetland impacts as
some of it's portrayed. Um, but it's proof that um that some of this stuff does work if it's voluntary. What I'm asking is prior to SB80, we adopted some storm water other storm water um uh
methods, right, to mitigate some of this stuff. With SB80, it obviously clears it out. What does council think about doing another voluntary storm water uh kind of like we did with the LI? Hey Can you guys work
with us with this? Right. Just like LI, I think you'll see that people would want to work with the council if we can keep our emotions together and uh get some of this uh information out there. I think you'll see more people like Mr.
Woods that would want to help and um maybe work with the community and work with us if they had the information uh in a handbook just like LI. if it's something you guys want to uh talk about. Are you saying in the meantime while we're waiting for 180 is impending? We
flipped that to a voluntary thing to see how it works while 180 even though we can't do it. Hey guys, hey Mr. Developer even though it's not that much. Didn't we ask for that already? I don't know. I I think I think we asked that they encourage
those things even though 180 uh u rescended them. Uh, we should double check that, but I concur. Staff, is that do you guys remember us? Do we ever give any concrete um direction? I mean, is it something hard
to put together? Just No, actually, I think we're already asking our developers on our our uh the items we had were so technical in nature. uh and I've asked uh the our
engineering team to still go and ask them at least voluntarily to take the extra core and look at the one foot freeboard. So, we're going to go forth and and and try it voluntarily and see what uh how that goes, but we're not going to force we can't force them under
the current, right? But my my whole thought process, hey, we we saw something good in my opinion a couple weeks ago. It was voluntary. They went the extra mile. Maybe we can we're able to keep it together and get some of this stuff out there. We'll be pursue that.
Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Two things. Staff, thank you very much. Great job on the unveiling of the sign for for the former sheriff. Fantastic job, Mr. Rekenwall. And my last minute, uh, I just wanted to say that I want this council maybe at the LA next
commission council meeting to discuss for all appointments that we do. I think we should do background checks. anybody that we appoint. I understand that we don't do them. I'd like for us to consider that for all future appointments, for all anything that we
put somebody to represent us besides a clean hands check, you mean? Yes, sir. Background check. Again, we can discuss it later. I know we we're pretty much done with time, Mr. Chair, but I wanted to put it on your radar. But as I said last time, anybody we appoint there is a reflection of this
council, and I think uh we should do a deeper dive. Councilman Dempsey, Councilman Johansson, I'll pass for now. Okay. I I've got two really important things, but they'll take some time, so
I'm going to skip them tonight. But, uh, Mr. Sheepard's been here all day. He asked for um I think he's called it an an independent investigation. Um George, I'm going to ask you um to
investigate and let us know by next week. I think Mr. Kent's basically done the same thing, but I really want to know how Miranda Holmes got 12 houses built without um what the fire marshall says is required by law. It makes it
doesn't smell right. It makes it look bad. And I don't want to just hear that mistakes were made. I've already heard that. I want to know who made the damn mistakes and why these 12 houses got passed by one builder and and this
couple sitting here who's going to be in a neighborhood that's already protected with ponds and pumps. why they can't get this just is this is not right. Um uh
so can you do that? Yeah. Well, we'll look into it. I mean, I could tell you right now sitting here that the the people who uh let that go through and it was a mistake. I I'm sorry you don't want to hear that, but
that's what it was. Uh I don't think any of them even work here anymore because these are mistakes that occurred following in the mid 2000 time range. So uh there might be one or two since then that slipped through. I don't know. The problem is and and it's not he's talking
about two different things. The the issue is about the plat the final plat and he's been offered four or five solutions to that including removing himself from the plaque. So, but the idea is the developer that built
the place back in the early 2000 early uh yeah around 20056 somewhere in that area rather than putting in the proper water they decided to uh go with a well and septic and then every individual
would have to be uh put with a sprinkler. So that's what uh was decided back then by the developer, not by the county and that was the agreement. Unfortunately, when you have those onesie agreements that slipped through the cracks and somebody ran through the
hole, apparently uh Morand at the time and and that's the situ we'll go back in records to find out who was actually uh uh doing that particular permit at that time. Uh and and we can at least track track down everyone who worked on it.
And find out about this Rachel that bought a lot and then sold it and because they couldn't they didn't want to do the sprinklers and nine months later he's saying someone built a home and they don't have sprinklers. That one too, please. We'll definitely do that if that's the case. And is it He also said I want to know if
this is true. Um, there's a permit flagged for pickup right now that's not flagged for a sprinkler system. We don't know of that. I mean, I asked the f when they said that, I just looked at the fire marshall who's sitting right
there and and uh he does not know of that. So, we'll have to check into that as well. But again, it has to do with, you know, the street might be one thing, but I don't know if that's in that subdivision sitting here today. I got I have to go back and look at where's the platted subdivision and those are the
ones that are affected uh because they were in the agreement. It has nothing to do with the uh some of the other statutes that are thrown out there. Uh, a single family home generally does not have to have a sprinkler system, but these people
agreed to that, the developer, because they put a development in. That's different than a single family house of record. And okay, who who is responsible for telling the fire marshal that there's a building
permit there? They're forwarded to him if if if it's needed through the building department. And did that not happen? Apparently not in the early mid 2000s because more than likely I'm talking about this week. The permit
that's ready that's that didn't require a Mr. Chairman point of order. I I don't think we should get in that level right yet right now. Let them do their work. Get back to us and then we question. Okay. I'm letting him know what I want to hear. No, you're questioning them. had a family sitting here all day.
David, and they deserve some answers. It's not a soapbox. It's our responsibility to stand up for our residents. So, I'm asking to You could woe me all you want. I want to have answers to this. I want to know how somebody could
pick up a permit and not have it be flagged for for a fire station. The county manager has told us he's going to find those. That's what I'm trying to say. It's not a It's not a trial yet. Let's find out the information. I want you to get the answers, too. There's a process, not a
trial. Okay? So, I learned a long time ago that when you're angry, um, don't talk. So, I'm not going to pick up the last two items that I have, and I need more time to do them, but I'm going to say this, and
it's not going to go over well, um, but it needs to be said. What we did today with this zoning and taking sharking our responsibility and passing it down to somebody else was malfeasants. It's embarrassing and it was wrong to do
that. So this meeting is adjourned at 10:50.