##VIDEO ID:R-z_ScUNin0## [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] he [Music] h [Music] [Music] [Music] w a [Music] [Music] he [Music] Welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] [Music] [Music] he [Music] oh [Music] down [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] he [Music] if everybody will the seat we'll get started in just a few seconds okay we will call the February 4th 2025 Valia County council meeting to order at 9 a.m. we will start our meeting in in just a moment with an invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance the invocation is open to any faith group in valuchi County if uh if your faith group would like to participate please just send an email to k green at volusia.org and she will get you all set up to do this um this morning we have the uh pleasure of having Pastor Tommy Clayton of Grace Life Church in Deltona so if you would care to stand for the invocation Tommy come on down and then just remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance Lord thank you for this day that you have made thank you for the opportunity to just acknowledge you to stop and pause and and thank you for for all you do for for who you are thank you for this Council and and the wisdom collectively that they represent I pray that as always you would give them wisdom for the decisions they're going to make today for the issues that they're going to face give them humility Lord uh to remember that they are servant leaders and they represent this County and uh that they're going to be seeking to solve problems together and find solutions to to issues that are deeply complicated and and have layers of complexity and uh keep them United father I know if there's 10 people in a room there's 11 opinions so keep keep this group United and may they together uh just represent our County well pray for their health I pray for their families I pray that you would watch over them and keep them and and uh we ask all these things in the Name of Christ amen alance to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all oh my goodness a little warm in here sir thank you okay Carissa could you would you call the role Please Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt Mr Robbins here is it working Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey here Mr Brower here so we do have a full house a quorum and we will begin our meeting with public participation if we have any and when I call your name you can just come forward to the podium here there's a button on the uh left side of the podium that makes it go up and down for height make please just make sure that there is a microphone near your speaking voice so we can all hear you and it's recorded and if you would just tell us uh where you're from you don't need to give your full address for safety reasons but tell us where you're from so your uh District representative knows that you're here and you have uh 3 minutes to talk about uh anything that pertains to volucia County uh first we have uh David Hill David Hill Miller Road and it's about Miller Lake uh I get the impression now that the wear has been installed on the Royal Oaks uh system that everybody thinks everything's fine but I measure it daily and uh the exfiltration system that Royal Oaks has in their parking paring lot it's supposed to take water in and disperse it but all it's doing right now it's taking water in it's rising Lake wall now is rising because it has it's not dumping in Miller Lake through the exfiltration system and all the piping that should not have been there so I just want you guys to know though it's not flowing over the wear now just give it this month it will be going over the Weir because I measure the rate and it soon will be going over so the problem's not solved we just put a dam up but the exfiltration system is 85% full and we've had no rain so I just want you guys to know the problem's not solved it's still there the value of our property on Miller Road because this threat is still there is you know people on Miller Road are going to have a difficult time selling their homes because of the disclosure issues now with the Florida statue and Johnson versus Davis in the Florida Supreme Court so we are still doomed and I would like to know what your plans are no nobody communicates to us nobody tells us anything so it'd be nice if you would bring us together as a group and say hey guys this is what's happening or if nothing's happening that's fine just let us know U but I'll keep you posted on the water level but Lake Wawa is rising um and the Royal Oaks uh the first rain in front of the Weir is rising a lot quicker than Lake wahah and we've not had any rain so there's there's more flooding on the horizon and I thank you for your time and I hope you can come up with the solution to this thank you thank you uh Alec reckner Tona Daytona Beach Shores I would like to thank president Trump for sanctioning the South African government particularly the African National Congress for passing the expropriation act which literally legalizes the confiscation of white bores in their Farmland South African president seal Rosa is a supporter of white genocide and white South African Farmers the global white genocide must end diversity Equity inclusion must end and the night circuit just fully blocked a California social media law involving age verification until trial clearly the night's Circuit Court of Appeals sees that digital IDs this stupid excuse called age verification violates the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution which to sanctimonious will be trying to quarter digital troops into your home with these digital IDs Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida failed for several years to disclose his stock trades which involved $1.6 million while he was a member of the House Financial Services committee they might call that a conflict of interest Jeff Brower has stood up for the citizens of this County by listening to their complaints of serious flooding issues and the need to suspend development I think there should be an Army Corps of Engineers to look at the S you know like a survey for the flooding issues Jeet Brower is not bought off by the big corporations and big de big developers his only concern is the issues of the residents of this County uh Jeff Brower for governor of Florida thank you thank you no thank you um John Nicholson John Nicholson Daytona Beachside uh item a on your consent agenda talks about uh redoing the plumbing in the Court Annex on City Island I thought we were trying to move that um why are we spending a great deal of money on redoing the plumbing if we hopefully build it on Beach Street um secondly um again with the Dei uh Trump is pushing the Dei I'm asking you to look at the possibility of eliminating from all of our paperwork anything that suggests that we are or are not discriminating it's been 50 years it's about time to end all of that we don't have to keep saying we don't discriminate we don't discriminate we don't so why keep saying it so and it's an offense when every time I read something I don't don't see it as we don't discriminate I see it as we discriminate against white men because that's what I got in Miami 40 years ago um you applied for a job and they would say sorry we're not hiring white men we need to abide by a court order and we can hire teachers who are white men because you'll take up the space that would go to a black man so those kind of things are in the past they should be in the past and we should eliminate all of that and lastly um I'm pushing the ezone uh somebody gave me a gift of the paperwork for the ezone uh for the city of Daytona Beach it's about an an entertainment Zone around Main Street um the county has an ocean Center a parking garage a um Water Works um amusement park there uh you are a big part of that ezone so uh if I can get the city to look at that almost half of the ezone has already been done completed there is interest on five of the six properties north of Main Street to work on it all of that would enhance the Ocean Center and I think uh one of those is a a hotel for the um Ocean Center so uh I'm asking that uh anything that you can do to help the city Revitalize that area not only helps the city but also helps the county thank you thank you and that concludes of public participation for the opening uh section we will move to item one approval of the agenda as written do I have a motion motion to approve motion to approve the agenda as presented second chairman chair Reinhardt the second is by Troy Kent any questions all in favor say I I any opposed Ed and the agenda is approved as written we will move to the consent agenda um does any council member have an item they would like to uh pull for comment or for a vote I will pull item e just for comment else d uh D chairman just for comment or vote uh just just comment and sta discussion chairman motion to approve the consent agenda as presented second Johansson have a motion to approve the consent agenda by Troy Kent and second by councilman Joe Hanson um all in favor Mr bra you do have a public comment for I'll pull that after but it I don't believe it was I I didn't pull it for a vote I just pulled it for comment we yeah we would need to take the comment before you approve the agenda okay uh Suzanne Shyer item e on the consent agenda good morning Suzanne Shyer representing dream green vucha I'm speaking on item e this is my third time speaking about the specific development April 1st of 2022 at the pdrc and at the council meeting on May 17 2022 and then today the Orman Scenic Loop is a national Scenic Highway and EST State Scenic byway scenic highways have no protections most think they automatically fall under conservation but they do not fdot designates scenic highways because of their resources such as natural cultural recreational and historical fuchia county has a crown jewel in the Orman Scenic Loop and Trail it's known in our state and outside of Florida during the time of raising funds to purchase the 36 acres of land from Mr mitur no one can imagine the phone calls emails and text messages flooding dream green valua the phone mail box was full and still ringing the email box was overloaded with people wanting defend the loop yard signs and 650 were delivered the Spruce Creek Creek student who started the petition achieving 76,000 signatures Natalie pipac was only 17 years years old and took public back lash for trying to preserve land can you imagine people accusing her of not speaking out 20 years earlier she wasn't even born yet time flies she just applied for Veterinary College last week Imagine a development of regional impact where residents show up for 20 years or longer for conservation those who fought during the early years are now in their 70s and 80s and we have been at this for 5 years so why am I going down this Memory Lane this Council wasn't around when the defend the loop campaign happened a few years ago and I don't know your level of knowledge of scenic highways or the Orman Scenic Loop and Trail we are the ones who have not only a loc we are the lucky ones who not only have a local treasure but a national one that comes with responsibilities residents have been trying to save preserve and defend the loop for decades so here are my concerns today there's Flooding at the development to the north the trees in the buffer are sitting in water all the time water runs across the road when it rains the state park across the street has its tree sitting in water now as well I first emailed this issue in August of 2023 so how is it going to be addressed there is no mention of the trail and this agenda item that was on the county resolution that passed for the development on June the 7th of 2022 please follow through in writing today saying the trail will be constructed from Plantation Oaks to to James Orman TB Park and to County staff hold the stakeholder meeting and address the issues the loop has the county signed a resolution supporting supporting the scenic highway in 2006 we all share a responsibility for the future and yes this includes the county that holds the power to shape the scenery of what the public has shown for decades they love thank you for your time thank you and uh Danny when we get done this we'll go to your item d I had pulled Eve for comment I um unfortunately I didn't get to comment before Mrs Shyer spoke uh but this is a uh it's been almost four years um maybe a little bit a few weeks more than four years that we um um bought the acreage that she just referred to on the loop with the uh uh intention of building a a hike and bike trail from there all the way to Orman tomb and so that uh that land was critical for that um the council voted for it um and uh we are on track for that the um this particular um uh subdivision the water stone provides um an excellent amount of buffer along the road so that the trail continue can continue through it and ultimately all the way to Orman tomb um there will be challenges we have to get across a very wide uh drainage um canal and there are several choke points at Halifax Plantation um where we we didn't get as much buffer as I had hoped uh but at Waterstone we did plus 13 acres for a park and I'm I'm very pleased with that so the trail is moving forward staff is committed to um to building that trail um so that's all I had an item e and Clay unless you wanted to add something okay item D chman I had something on item e okay go ahead Mr Santiago thank you Mr chairman um pressed the wrong button um if we could and I'd like for just for clarity purposes um not only for the council and maybe members of the public that see an item uh such as this um requesting approval final plat if we can get uh our legal team Mr Paulo tell us what is our legislative uh function in a final plat and what is the purpose of a final PL um uh thank you Mr chair members Council Paulo sorya senior assistant County attorney um so you know what's the purpose of a plat well the purpose of a plat is to one establish the identity of all lands to allow for the conveyance of property um essentially it what it doesn't do is it doesn't create entitlements it doesn't create density those are done during your rezoning and um comp plan stages so if you want to buy a piece of property usually um you know you you say I want a lot I want I want to buy Lot 56 um and you look at the plat map and you point out the lot and you say I want to buy that and the reason you can do that is because it's a platted it's a platted piece of land um and you buy in reference to the plat and you you know what's around you you know how many Lots there are you know what roads there are you know what the tracks are you know what the open space is you know where the parks are so it is a consumer protection um development order uh so otherwise uh you know individual home buyers and lot owners would have would receive a meets and Bounds legal description with calls and you know distances and things like that and you know they would have to get a surveyor and they would have to determine what their property what they're actually buying this the plat is just for the buying and selling of property and knowing um kind of what you have bought so having said all that uh the approval of plats is very strict you know it's it's we say that it's ministerial in nature because there's a line of case law that kind of says okay what your looking at are just the technical requirements of a plat so what are the technical requirements you know have they put all the monuments in place are they you know have they dedicated all the tracks properly um does it have the appropriate um dedication and approvals from all of the owners um and the courts have said okay if they have met all of that local government even though you are the approval entity your discretion has disappeared once they meet all that criteria so you must app approve so that's why plats are usually on your consent they are not your typical um resoning or special exceptions they are ministerial in nature uh because they come usually at the end of the development process um by the time there's you know you're faced with a plat approval uh a lot of things happen there are road infrastructure in place there's Utilities in place storm water has been um you know constructed so the entire subdivision um except for the ver iCal houses it's there um in fact for this particular um plat water stone you can drive the roads you know if you can go in there everything is there the only thing that's missing are the individual houses and some f correct me if I'm wrong some final plat also do not require the infrastructure to be in place at that time it's it's a dedication and sometimes maybe even a bond yes so one of the options um in fact one of the things that we were recently preempted is you know um someone can bom Bond the improvements and they have they bond to a higher level so they have to bond 130% of the estimated construction cost for all of the improvements and that's kind of a security so in the event they walk away or something happens the county us we hold the bond and we go to the shity and and we say hey the developer has you know violated their uh their construction plans they have not finished the infrastructure you need to come in and fix it and final question Mr chair um and before uh plat comes to us on the consent agenda item I'm going to assume if you can correct me if I'm wrong well let me just ask the question um what does staff do before they put it on our agenda uh I'll actually uh I'll let clay answer that okay good morning Clay irin director of growth and Resource Management your staff looks at for technical compliance to the Land Development regulations as well as doing concurrency analysis so that's to ensure that there's adequate roads water sewer Parks schools all of the infrastructure that we're required or have option to require under our comp plan so uh that that's initiated at the beginning um if they use the typical process which a preliminary plat is approved they go forward do the construction uh then we would conduct inspections throughout the construction phase then prior prior to scheduling it we would ensure that the final improvements are in place and that everything is functioning and we are willing to accept it because with the subdivision that is when roads are transferred utilities are transferred Etc so therefore before it hits y'all for a final plat we would be out there and inspecting it to verify that it's compliance with the approved plans and the plans are in compliance with your code thank you thank you Mr chair thank you uh good good questions it's to go over what what actually happens there because it's probably not real clear to the public I think we have one other comment on item e uh councilman Kent thank you chairman Brower I appreciate it so yeah just a just a couple of comments I'm really pleased that this was this was pulled uh chairman thank you for doing that and I'm pleased we've had a a comment about it publicly I just I want to personally thank Suzanne Shyer and dream green valua because of your leadership on this issue and your steadfast support and the council that was here BT Before Troy um they made a wise decision and and used those public Monies to purchase that property that we're going to have for a park so publicly and personally I want to say thank you for your efforts on that uh and I want to thank the prior Council that made that decision the loop in Orman Beach is an absolute gem that uh I mean there's I've not found any other place like it and it is uh it's breathtaking if you've not been through there you need to take a a drive and and check it out and I I do have a a question for staff that I'll end with but I just want to say and I appreciate Parker mberg the developer showed up and you're here today because this is important to you and Parker I'll tell you um I've been beat up a little bit in the past because I've said what I'm getting ready to say but you know not all devel Vel opers are the boogeyman not all developers are the bad guy or bad girl and when I think of developers that I think are good guys that live in our community so they're not Out of Towners they're not Carpet Baggers they live here and they see the residents in the in the um grocery stores and I know if the surf is up I'm going to see you at the seminol approach in Orman Beach we've bumped into each other in the water several times but I think of people like you and Paul Hollow and the vanar vanacor brothers um and uh myy husseini who live in this community who in my opinion have done great things in Orman Beach and I'm appreciative that you were willing to work with the county a few years ago and we need to continue that type of dialogue back and forth because you live here you want it to be beautiful you all don't just want to pillage the land so um clay and or George or Suzanne Consin um two things I want address please uh Suzanne Shyer brought them up that is the trail and the chairman mentioned that that's on track I just I just want to hear confirmation that the trail that Miss Shyer brought up is is on track and the second thing and you may want to have uh Ben talk about this is the water over that road my daughter lives up there so my wife and I uh every week we we Trek up that way uh to see our grandkids and our daughter but you heard who I said first right um sorry Gabby but that water over the road I want to know what the solution is and how that's getting fixed two things that Miss Shyer brought up I want to make sure we get addressed so whoever wants to talk about the trail and then whoever wants to talk about the water over the road Mr chairman members of council I'll start off and then uh Ben can supplement and and we've got the team here for questions so on your screen uh is a preliminary I sketch of a trail plan from the plantation Oaks Park uh which was referenced we purchased with Echo dollars a few years ago uh the Orange is the park that is dedicated as part of the final plat uh as part of item e on this agenda and then in blue dashes along the uh western edge of Old Dixie Highway uh is a continuation of the trail to an existing Park the James Orman tomb Park um we uh will actually Meander the trail on the orange piece the wetstone park piece uh that trail is showing hugging the road but actually since we own the 13 acres we'll be able to meander that trail further away from the road uh and avoiding any removal of trees uh to get it to its northern boundary which is the edge of the Halifax Plantation subdivision uh uh from there North the trail is most likely to go within the 80 ft of road ravo which we have uh approximately 17 ft of ravo was dedicated by the Helifax Plantation plats over time as they were recorded uh from the wetstone uh Northern uh boundary to Orman TB park there is a 50ft buffer that is part of the platted Halifax Plantation uh subdivisions uh but that is owned by their homeowners association those are not publicly own land so our plan is to stay uh east of the buffer uh within the right of way you'll see in pink an alternative Trail Loop on the east side of Old Dixie Highway we have been in discussions with the Florida uh parks department for uh several years now about potentially offering an alternative Loop if you will on the east side uh in their park property they've gone through some leadership changes as part of uh the buo uh Creek State Park and so we're working with their current leadership there to see what we can accomplish with them um they do have a series of Road and lands uh on the East much of which are wet because this is tidally influenced lands along the state park um but We are continuing to work on this as a potential Loop I'll note that on the east side of Old Dixie as part of buo cre state park there is uh probably eight miles uh or more of existing Trails uh within that Park that these will Loop into link up to and offer a better experience M Miss gunon thank you very much for sharing that and not to give out you know where where you live or anything but I think it's important to note that you're a hop skipper jump from this place of where you live and I know you know you know how special that place is as well so thank you for that that update go on that one okay the second part please good morning Ben Barlett Public Works director so um as Miss uh conin referred to we have a lot of tily influenced areas along the loop and we have a lot of roads that were constructed a long time ago and some low-lying areas so first is the uh stretch of Beach Street um from the bridge up to pine tree that routinely goes underwater tily influenced that project um was uh included in one of the transform 386 projects it's currently under design it's a it's a challenging design and permitting situation because we're going through the state park we're going through uh a wetland area so there's a lot of environmental concerns so we're we're making sure that whatever we uh propose for for construction to elevate the road essentially will uh not harm anything in terms of environmental concerns and then um we did have a situation a little further north Long Old Dixie where we did some repairs to we had a situation where the water was building up on one side of the road and we were able to install some drainage coverts that move that water and that seems to alleviate alleviate the situation um Walter Borman and hybridge are difficult because they are low and they are there's very limited ride away and one second before you move off to that last piece you were talking about so is that fixed now that's a fixed the the one just north of the bridge that you were talking about put the cul in so you feel like the county like that's addressed and that's fixed we're not going to have that water flowing for four months at a time correct I mean you might see in a heavy rain you might get some water over the road but for the most part um we've know we've observed that the water has uh been addressed the real the main concern is really uh the stretch of Beach Street um which requires the road to be elevated that's a safety concern um you know especially the water comes up high enough to at night you can't see the edge of the road um and so you know during title situations we're having to close that road so that is the main focus of our attention right now is to get that stretch open it also provides an evacuation route it's not an official evacuation route but it allows people to get from Beachside Inland and we want to make sure that road is passable in those types of events no no worries oh Walter Borman and hybridge um we've got a a major resurfacing project we're going to do some what we call full death Reclamation we've got shoulder issues and everything you know a lot of that's because the water level uh tidally influence so uh in the next few months we've got a a major resurfacing full depth Reclamation project coming through um it's still going to be affected by the tides excuse me because um you know we're we're limited right away and you're right next to the water and and Ma and raising that road dramatically could affect the overall uh loop experience so we we kind of just have to monitor it and and and see is see how we can do with it but um the it doesn't go underwater near as much as the stretch of beach stream Mr bartett since we have you here at the podium do you have a timeline especially specifically on the issue of right uh north of the bridge on Beach Street that you're talking about it's going to that Road's going to have to be raised you know I know you're designing but what kind of timeline are we looking at getting this fixed so we're we're confident that we'll get the design and permitting done in in the within the next six months and then we'll move to construction and then that's where we've got the funding lined up through transform 386 and at the direction Council we're also making a request to the state for a um a legislative appropriation as well um let me tag on to that just for a second I was going to bring this up at the uh in closing comments it fits a lot better here because we have all the public here and Mrs Shyer is is here I'm I'm a little concerned with your explanation um thinking about the flooding on the um east side of Old Dixie U we've got Heritage Oaks that are dying because they're standing in water and I I think what you just describe prevents water from being on the road but it just conveys that water into the park across the street well if you look at the Topography of that area everything generally moves from a west to east even prior to the development the the topography prior to any of the development you had a west to east movement of of the flow so it's essentially there was a section there where there was a low spot in the road and the water was pooling uh mainly because the road was acting like a dam but if you were to remove all the infrastructure out of there and go back 150 years ago to what the natural topography was everything wants to go from west to east now you've heard me talk about we're in a period of high rain uh higher than average rain high intensity rainstorms so we're seeing a lot more water in that area move in that area but the general uh natural flow of the water is from west to east and uh you can see it through the topography that we have going all the way back you know Maps going all the way back 50 years so to to I'm not here to say that that's not occurring it probably is but it's because we're getting a lot of rain and it's it's that's the direction it wants to go it naturally wants to move to that location that may be and and it is I don't doubt you that the water goes west to east but we've never had standing water there that's killing you know 100 150 year old oak trees so something different is happening um the last development that went in on Halifax Plantation immediately started u flooding the road and sending water across the uh across the road into the park so um I'm not I don't understand how this is going to help save the uh the park and the oak trees there um I I guess we will see so you have multiple culs under the road we installed one recently at a location where the water was uh pooling on the road we have other coverts and other locations okay so we're we're preserving the road we're maintaining the natural flow okay all right uh Troy you were done yes okay and then uh councilman Robbins for item D thank you chair uh yeah item d uh great item and last year council with your help we we engaged uh in this campaign to review and expand uh our Ada accessibility um so that others that are Mobility impaired whether they're elderly uh or U handicapp they can uh experience and enjoy some of the same amenities um that that we all do and enjoy things uh just as much as everyone else uh Brad are you able to uh give a quick um thank you overviews of Eco Rover chairs I think we're um the first county in the state to have one there's other Park system at state parks that have them here in our County but um the feedback we receive from the community um constantly is um we want to be able people who are Mobility impaired to explore our preserves and so this is just one way we've planned to do that in the future we have a plan to do a kind of like the Water Management District does on one of their properties a driving Trail so you could stay in your car and and explore the preserve um but this will be stationed at Leonia it's our only man preserve so in order to remain efficient we'll have it at lion Environmental Center but when we won land owner of the year for our our hunt program last year we asked FWC what could what could take our program to the next level and the the EO over chair was the suggestion because we do special opportunity Hunts on our preserves for wounded veterans so when we have that we'll take the chair from lonia up to Barberville and also Young uh youth hunt so if we have it where we have Mobility impaired youth we'll be able to take the chair to long leaf pine preserve for those hunts as well thank you Bradon if if you can just set your convenience with uh George's support um if we can get out a uh a newsletter or something that we can we can post and I already talked about it this morning good man thank you so much Brad yes and 10,000 of it was grant money from a private Foundation that was the success story Ben are you still down there he's said you could I I just I want to go back to e real quick because I'm just thinking about before you do chairman can I can I have a comment on what uh Mr Robbins pulled up about the Eco Rover chair yes so um Mr bball so the Eco Rover chair $16,000 and 10,000 is is a grant um just at some point not today just I I need some more information on just because like when you when you Google um an Eco Rover chair I mean I I see some of these Ultra chairs that are unbelievable looking look like a tank almost for $8,200 to other ones that are $1,500 and I'm just like $116,000 my question to staff was so how many how many of these Ecco Rover chairs are we receiving and they said one and I was like gosh man that was like 12 times more than my first car you know so um just I need some more information in the future from you about that thank you thank you chairman thank you thank you uh just had one more question about about e you know what what you said is true the water travels west to east but when you have 100 150 year old oak trees dying they've been through hurricanes they've been through fluctuations in water and there wasn't enough water there to Die the storm water plan for the Halifax Plantation the the new subdivision um should have retained their water shouldn't it and who who approved it the city or the county the storm Halifax Plantation was approved in the county it's a it's a unincorporated development um they should retain the difference between the prepost uh so that as we you know we've explained is uh pre-development site certain amount of water flows off post-development you got to retain not just the uh rate the attenuation but also you have to retain the volume so you can't increase the volume over what the predevelopment condition was I can tell you um you know after Matthew we saw some water over the road and after um Ian we saw water over the road and uh our staff went through those developments looking for any uh changes in the permits or discharges or pumping or anything um you know quot to that that wasn't in you know didn't match that their permited plans or anything that would have you know been causing that flooding um due to some sort of uh maintenance issue or something like that we couldn't find anything and uh you know based on what we saw there you know we I even went and walked through the woods on the east side of Old Dixie I got you know five or six tick ticks I had to remove when I got home to prove it but uh you know there it's interesting through there there's um you know kind of the natural topography and everything there's some areas where water can get impounded and things like that obviously being the state park we don't have the ability to to go in there and modify it but um the conclusion that we came to based on everything that we saw and looked at is it was a combination of you know and you said they've gone through hurricanes but as we've talked about different hurricanes have different amounts of rain and then combined with the elevated rain levels that we're seeing the last eight or nine years we really think it's just increase in water level and you're seeing flooding on Walter bman and Highbridge and down by you know Beach Street by the bridge and that's tially influenced there's no development adjacent to those areas either so I think it's a combination of those things and we it's not that we totally dismissed the possibility that there was something going on in those developments we went in there looked at them met with the STA uh the HOA folks that maintained their systems compared what was going on to the original permitted plans and we didn't find any Smoking Gun if you will that would have uh caused this additional flow across the road who is responsible for determining if they're retaining the right amount of water and just letting the normal amount uh travel east um well so during the design process when they're applying for permits from both the county and the Water Management District the engineer of record who designs the system um there's one right there um is responsible for ensuring that they meet the pre-post conditions obviously those plans are reviewed by staff at both agencies to ensure that the engineer is doing it right it's modeled for those different storm events and that's how you and then it's constructed per those plans and that's how you ensure that it's meeting the three post did did Parker design this one so the the engineer designs it is responsible for making sure it work works well he's one Cog in the wheel so to speak I mean the engineer is responsible for Designing it but it's not that there's no checks to ensure that what they're doing I mean that's what we do as far as our plans review our development review staff go through and reviews their calculations their models reviews all their assumptions on the seasonal high this is actually a great primer for what you're going to hear at the uh February 11th meeting when we really go in depth on the uh storm water rules and everything like that we're we going to Tad's going to give a a pretty interesting overview on on a lot of this stuff um we're just scratching the surface of it here today yeah it is a good primer and that honestly that's what concerns me because we keep hearing that you know proper engineering is done to prevent the water from going and yet here we have an area with old growth Heritage Oaks that are dying and it's just well we've had a lot of rain that's what we hear that's what I hear every time and then we go on to the next one and have the same issue so um I'll look forward to the meeting you're going to talk about this on the 11th sir okay actually Tad will be leading that discussion all right thank you and Troy Kent do you have a a question for just a brief comment chairman on what you're speaking about and and I am appreciative of your of your efforts with that and I'll tell you why um my mind is a little at ease and that is at I think our last meeting or the one before that we had a graph posted and it showed the rainfall with 11 in is our our Max by the way 11 in our storm water can handle it over 11 in it's a problem and they showed you know the last 120 140 years and uh for 80 years I think there were three events in 80 years where that rain went over there and in the past 20 years it was either seven or nine events if my memory is right that that has gone over that 11inch threshold so we have had it it's it's unlike what we've seen ever because they've been keeping data on that so that's the only reason chairman where I'm I'm not um pound in the same drum that you are on this issue because I I do believe that the amount of rain that we've had in the past 20 years um has been incredible I wish we'd had it in the summer of 1998 but we done okay thank you then we will I don't see any other questions uh we'll call for the vote on the consent agenda all in favor say I I any opposed consent agenda is pass 7 to Z which brings us to item three continuation of the road program and is Tad going to do that good morning Tad kbear County engineer uh kicking off or picking up from where we uh left off last uh meeting uh we're talking about uh different ways to allocate money that uh may be specifically earmarked from the general fund for transportation projects uh first aspect that uh we were recommending was taking a look at some of our Capital level projects these are projects where the bud budget is rather High the work uh work level would be uh would require quite a bit of time uh that's what separates them from simple uh maintenance level projects overall so we already have two projects in our road program that were previously approved by Council uh the Old Mission Road project uh where we're going from Josephine to park we are relocating uh either the road or the canal that's immediately adjacent to it doesn't meet safety standards uh we aren't adding Lanes we aren't adding Capac capity it's nothing along those lines it's simply just bringing the road up to current safety standards uh which is pretty much what we're doing with all these projects we also have Pioneer Trail from I95 West over to tamoka Farms Road uh we'll be uh relocating either the ditches or section of the road uh adding paved shoulders again just bringing an area up to uh safety Uh current safety standards we have other projects other Road segments where we've identified uh uh safety issues these five in particular have uh what I would consider more pressing safety issues we have quite a few roads that don't have paved shoulders they don't have the adequate clear Zone that they we we would need uh there's so many that uh it doesn't make sense to list them all these five have particular items that that need to be considered and addressed uh Rec Canal Road LPGA both have large canals immediately adjacent to the road very similar to the situation we have at Old Mission uh not quite as dire as at Old Mission there's actually enough room to put guard rail in those sections where we have it um we also have other projects like Jacob's der in Old New York where we have uh ditches immediately adjacent to it no paved shoulders or any sidewalks in an area where we regularly expect pedestrians and then uh County Road 3 uh similar to those uh other two I just mentioned old New York and Jacob's dairy uh with the exception that it also has narrow narrow Lanes with it as well so you don't really have much room to maneuver if there were somebody that were walking along the edge or riding their bike in that overall so these are projects that uh we would look to fund at least partially with uh with that that money uh we have some safety money that we set aside each year from gas tax large portion of that gets eaten up uh with the two projects that we have and uh whatever remains we put generally into intersection improvements turn Lanes those types of things to offset known safety problems so then thanks Tad so other uh as Tad mentioned he spoke through some of the capital projects that we would look to fund using this additional uh money from the general fund um at the uh maintenance level one of the big maintenance uh costs that we incur is resurfacing so um that pie chart you see on there is actually our latest uh information that we have from running the uh Road analysis in 20124 and uh the good news is we're improving um we we had a major Focus on local roads uh during the recession we focused mainly on thorough fares as money became tight and local roads um uh needed some uh needed some love so to speak and so what you can see is our backlog I.E the number of roads with a PCI ranking that's the pavement condition index it's basically a grade zero to 100 um our backlog of roads less than PCI 40 dropped from 2021 uh where it was 11 and a half percent to just under 4% so that is a huge Improvement um we did increase our budget for uh 2425 uh roughly 3% but what we're what we've also seen is our overall PCI if you take the average of the network it increased but our uh thoroughfare uh PCI actually dropped a little bit and so um we anticipate focusing um moving forward on uh resurfacing on thorough fire roads so even though um you know two-lane road which is typically a local Road uh has a certain amount of Lane miles a thoroughfare typically has considerably more and is more expensive to um to resurface so the cost to maintain the current PCI we anticipate it's going to go up a because we're going to focus on thoroughfare roads and B just inflation and general so um you know we want to make sure that we're maintaining that PCI that we're keeping that backlog light so that our road network is is up to standards so we anticipate uh needing additional Revenue to fund uh and and maintain our current PC Uh current uh resurfacing program to ensure the road network is functioning as it should and then the other thing we're looking at we did a uh kind of a little bit of a pilot project this year using um a pavement preservation technique called Cape seal so we uh picked about seven or eight roads in the northern area of Orman by the sea that um some of them were uh pretty low on the scale and some of them were it was a neighborhood so you had a couple roads that were pretty low and then a couple of them that were mid and so we uh utilize this cape seal technique which is a p pavement preservation it costs 40 to 50% of what a typical resurfacing cost and it extends the life of that asphalt so uh with this additional funding we're going to look to expand this program and try to make our resurfacing dollars go further and you know we're focusing on local roads where this that where this will work you know you typically don't see it on your hight traffic roads and things like that but this is something that we can do that extends the life of the pavement and you know as as uh every uh person who maintains roads likes to show the the the the PCI curve there you don't want to let your roads get too too far down the list and it requires a full rebuild so this is a way to keep those roads in good shape and uh and extend the uh amount of money that you're spending or extend the uh effectiveness of the money you're spending on road resurfacing and finally um other uh other projects that we uh have identified for this additional funding include our Bridge maintenance projects so in about a month or so we're going to be uh doing a major Rehab on the concrete decking on Knox Bridge up on Highbridge Road up on the loop uh we still need to do the uh East Side decking um and we have that planned for uh upcoming fiscal year we also have Main Street Bridge um Main Street Bridge requires a lot of Maintenance coming up um to include cathoic protection which is the rust rust prohibiting painting um we have to replace the submarine cable that connects both sides and then we are uh in the process of a major mechanical Rehabilitation so we estimate the total cost of these repairs to be around $18.4 million now we're going to break them up into separate projects we're not going to do them all at once but this will be a major uh a major place where we can spend a lot of this money over the next few years and then we do have our scour critical Bridges which are the bridges that um experienced uh erosion uh during the high uh during the the hurricanes and uh we currently have two of these bridges in design uh we have plans to submit them because they were directly related to um storms to submit them for transform 386 funding but we still would like to provide a match and not uh apply for 100% funding on those so we anticipate using some of this money um uh for these projects as well uh going forward as we move through the budget process um and identify the funding uh areas where we're going to apply this money um we'll identify in the budget so Council can see which projects are receiving this additional money uh from year to year and so you can understand where that's going towards and making sure that youall agree to it happy to answer any questions you might have on any of these projects going forward Vice chair Reinhardt thank you chair Ben thank you for pointing out about the the cape seal because I had heard about that and I was curious with respect to I know you use those on Lower traveled roads higher travel roads what is the life expect expectancy of a road that we resurface well um without the cape seal so it depends you know on traffic and things like that local roads you're hoping to get 20 25 maybe 30 years out of a resurfacing uh on your thoroughfare roads you're probably looking around 15 to 20 years um maybe less maybe more depending on the traffic and the type of uses heavy trucks plays a big part if a if a if a thoroughfare Road sees a lot of heavy truck usage um think about like the interstates they're resurf resurfacing those roads pretty regularly uh so it really depends on speed traffic use and things like that we have three companies that we use correct all right and of those three companies that we use which are all local which I love um have we seen their product doing better over time you know like most things they you get better about what you produce you know manufacturer especially these three companies that I'm referring to have been in business for a while and one of which I was very happy to see that we had the issue on Clyde mores they came out and fixed it super related about them so thanks to Massie for that yes so um you know they all whenever you're doing any kind of construction project but especially resurfacing inspection is a very big part of what we're doing make sure they're using the right mix make sure the temperature is right when the asphalt comes out they're using right and we do the core type of study with it as well cores and everything like that so we're to to say one is better than the other our goal through the inspection proc process would be to make sure they're all equally good um I say they are and um and there not to say that there aren't issues like you referenced but um you know that's why we have warranty periods and things like that and we go back and check and if there was an issue uh like you're referencing over there on uh with Massie they came out made the repair which I was and it made it it made it good so um one last uh question the Main Street bridge I know that there's been we we've talked about it over the past year um I'm certainly happy to see that we're looking at doing those repairs I look at on the other side of that bridge obviously we can't build a new bridge um we're I wouldn't say never well it's going to prove to be difficult trying to where those properties are located you might have to push out properties I I don't want to see that there are a lot of businesses on that side there's always an argument about uh how that area suffers because it's seasonal uh and I can only imagine how it would suffer if we eliminated that bridge altogether so I'm happy to see that so well you know maintaining Bridges is kind of a catch 22 and that one proves to be more difficult because it is movable a long fixed bridge with a movable portion in the middle um but you know there all of us who have been involved in maintaining Bridges you know when you let a bridge let a bridge or when a bridge gets to a point where it's in dire need of repair that's when the federal government will step in a lot of times through the state and give you money to to and they they evil those as well correct cor every year these Bridges get actually the movable Bridges get inspected every year because they inspect the movable Parts one year and then the fix Parts okay and last question I promise you say it has to be done in stages is it safe to prolong that over a period of time to do that stages I mean the bridge itself totally well when I say we do it in stages there it's not that we're it like a painting contractor is not the same guy who's going to do the sub cable okay you know what I'm saying so uh there would be separate projects they may be concurrent but they may just be bit out sear okay I got I thinkk you for clarifying I'm going to interject in it you know we're going to put 18.4 million dollars and keeping this bridge going uh because if you decided today you did want to replace that bridge you'd be looking at six or seven years before you ever saw construction so they have to think about that but also you're going to have to think about replacement at a certain time the bridge was built in 1954 I think or something like that so the parts that are in there you know uh well what happens now is and we've had to do this there's only a few places in the country that machine the the parts they make them so when something breaks on that bridge there's no going anywhere and getting apart uh it has to be made because the stuff is that old so U we will eventually have to deal how long do you think we look at that as far as replacement well you had to guess we the dot we've had discussions with the do and they're putting it on their Bridge replacement list um so you know Veterans Memorial was 40 43 million this bridge is considerably longer um you know it's not just the movable part and you know can you the highrise at this location would be difficult because the location of the channel in relation to the west side of the river okay um so can you get the landing and things like that I mean I'm not saying it would it's impossible but it would be difficult so do you you get into a situation do you go back with another movable Bridge you go back with a midrise there's all kinds of questions but it would be very expensive and very timec consuming and in the meantime it's our bridge to maintain and we got to make sure that it's we have to maintain it but we also have to look at economically how it impacts the people on the other side as well as businesses so thank you for clarifying councilman Johansson thank you chairman Ben what do we know the main cause or is there a main cause of of the degradation of our roads is it running from heavy traffic is it cracking is it potholes from moisture and standing water it's a very it's a it's all kinds of things so when we do the pavement analysis you know they're looking at all you know you got scabbing you got alligator cracking you got potholes you got all these kinds of things you know a good uh indication of a unique use would be um uh the Bell viw extension at Clyde Morris where the uh where all the garbage trucks go and they stop because they're all going to that Waste Pro facility right there and you see the ruting and things you see a little bit at the landfill you know entrance at tamoka Farm road so it it it's a number of things but ultimately it really comes down to um the the usage the the amount of traffic on the road and then the type of traffic and and and are are we are we adjusting what we do to that piece of the road based on what's going on or yeah I'll let Tad speak to it but our thoroughfare road construction standard is is different than a local Road standard correct so we two uh when we go in and Rehab a road section and either reconstruct it or add Lanes we do take a look at what the existing usage is you when you think of a road it's not just the pavement on top there's the base material underneath and that adds a large part to the structural capability um benett mentioned quite a few of the factors that can have an effect on your road condition water is one of the biggest a lot of our older roads are lower elevation so that base material can sit in water and that's what creates a lot of those you know you see ruding problems it's usually a situation like that a vast majority of uh of the problems are has been describ that water is a big part of that as well the one thing I would note about asphalt or even concrete is they are temporary there is there's no such thing as a permanent solution the concrete gives you a longer life cycle but it's more expensive upfront and Rehabilitation can be tough uh you've seen uh if you've been around uh on seven on 92 between D land and uh Daytona the dot has been constantly working on that over the last 15 years after a period where they didn't work on it for the 20 some OD years before that so once it gets to the end of its life cycle it can take quite a bit but uh but there's no permanent solution and the Sun by itself will break down a road segment the asphalt thank you thank you chairman before you go away I wasn't going to ask about 17 but that's a um or 92 that's an interesting point will that ever be transferred from concrete to Asphalt or is concrete better through that stretch uh usually usually when you have a high water table that's when concrete is the uh is the best for you it doesn't fluctuate as much as I mentioned uh the base material has a large effect on asphalt it has a minimal effect on concrete so um short of going out there and putting a lot of fill and and uh uh raising that road up I don't foresee them doing that there are situations where if the uh concrete and such bad shape it does make sense to replace that uh an asphalt again is cheaper so they they've done that in a couple locations at either end that I've seen but I kind of like it it keeps you awake at night if you're driving home late um the question I wanted to ask you you piqu my curiosity when you talked about the the um the lifespan of a road 20 to 30 years do you I lived on a dirt road when I moved West um I liked it because it cut down on traffic and the guy whoever you had um um grading that road was just magical they it was an older guy did a great job but we had neighbors that complain probably once a week about about the dirt road um so you you paved it and if my memory do do you remember how long ago that was it's been 20 years hadn't it oh yeah probably 20 25 years yeah mhm if my memory serves me correctly I I watched them pave it and the guy graded it just perfectly and then it seemed like you just put down gravel and asphalt on on top of it um where I'm going is that this is not a complaint 25 years later it it's an in amazing shape and now instead of just getting a few local cars we get a lot of tra not too much um you know it's it's okay but we get a lot of cut throughs to Spartan and from heavy trucks to well we don't allow electric vehicles in our neighborhood but it's it's done amazing is that still the when you're looking at at Paving some of our dirt roads is that still the system you would use they use something different but you're welcome I I I paved that Road 25 years ago but uh that was uh at that time we're using a new method uh called an open grade asphalt we did use crushed concrete I believe uh recycled concrete for the base and then an open grade asphalt and then on top of that several years later we put uh the normal hot mix that they they use today I think after experimenting through the years we came to the conclusion that the uh open grade there was raveling issues and we could if we can't get to it and get that cap on it it would fall apart uh too quickly so I think they went to a thicker base and a hot mix they can explain that but but at the end of the day uh uh those roads worked as long as you got there with that uh hot mix on the top in a timely manner so today we do a lot of our dirt road paving inhouse with our own Paving crew uh actually we do most of it and um so what we you did Dawson Brown in-house yeah yes so what what we do is um so when you build a road you have like basically three layers a local Road you have a stabilized subgrade which is a mix of dirt and a lot of times clay to provide kind of a little bit of a subbase and then you have your lime rock or crushed concrete base and then your asphalt so on dirt roads that dirt road has been compacted like you would not believe typically and so what we do is is almost what you described we come in and we scrape it we scrape a couple inches off uh uh of the dirt and get down to that really hard packed dirt and then we come back in with a crushed concrete base and then we go over the top with asphalt and it works great on dirt roads typically because like you say dirt roads don't see a ton of traffic and so even after we pave it unless it turns into a cut through uh you don't see a dramatic increase in in Paving and and they seem to hold up pretty well okay thank you any other questions at this point no okay thank you oh yeah I mean we'll see the uh you'll see the projects listed in the upcoming budget um but if you have any do you have if you have any questions or anything you wanted to add specifically on this otherwise we're we're good to proceed with applying that money moving forward okay what's the feeling of the council do I have a a motion to approve the amount and the direction in which the money is being spent move to approve Johansson second councilman Johansson makes a motion to approve second by Vice chair Kent um any other questions I'm sorry I got half of it right rard it's old habits um any other questions comments all in favor say I any opposed and I do want to note that Mr Santiago is out of the room you will ask him when he comes back right now it is 6 to zero takes us to item four Community Development block grant uh disaster recovery and Donna Butler morning Mr chair members of council Donna Butler director of The Office of Recovery and resiliency so before you today are three infrastructure projects for nonprofits uh they all suffered greatly during actually both storms they applied for this funding uh after Hurricane Ian when we we first released the infrastructure grants and all three of them have indicated to me that they have had um subsequent flooding or damage uh following hurricane Milton the first in front of you is for uh SMA there's a small request of 371,000 they have fixed the internal um damage to their facility that was even more severe during Milton this um will fix potential um flooding in the future by giring the outside to not allow water in and then also having protection on their doorways which is a huge source of water infiltration uh the pay center for girls is uh requesting $3 million um to build a new facility their current facility is at 20 208 Central Avenue in Orman Beach it's on the historic register of national the National Historic register and so there's minimal work that can be done to that building they are proposing to build a new facility at 410 Clyde Morris Boulevard um to facilitate that um program there finally is the domestic abuse Council requesting $900,000 they too uh receive damage from both storms so this will work to fix excuse me fix that damage and mitigate against future storms um representatives from each of the agencies are here to answer any questions that I not am not able to answer for you thank you uh questions from the council councilman Robbins no questions chair just motion to approve uh as presented the Community Development block grant Disaster Recovery infrastructure grants second or Jake that's fine motion to approve by um councilman Robbins and the second by uh councilman Johansson uh no questions no comments all in favor say I I I any opposed thank you very much and that is approved 7 to zero we'll go back to item three for Mr uh Santiago what's your vote on that one so that it is 7 to zero on the road program item five you know what we had three people that wanted to speak um you got voted on and approved but I'll if you would still like to speak uh Sheila Jordan you can come say thank you is dancing allow on this platform yes good morning I'm Sheila Jordan I'm the executive director PACE Center for Girls valua Flagler thank you all so incredibly much not just for your decision today but for your support of our organization and girls for 30 years nearly we'll celebrate 30 years but I wanted to uh give you an opportunity to meet Gracie who is a recent Pace graduate hi my name is Gracie I'm now a freshman at Daytona State College because of pace and the funding they gave me it helped me to get there so I just thank you very much for everything yeah congratulations you're welcome tooa you still here also from pace so from PACE Center for girls I had a chance to meet you all a couple months back and nothing else to be added but thank you so much thank you um Heather Lovejoy hi I'm also from pce Center for Girls I'm the director of our Capital project so just a a great thank you um as I'll be able to move forward on this project um and we're just so excited to be able to move into a space where our program can be more resilient and I also just want to ensure you that our design includes uh quite a bit of uh designed features to reduce uh hurricane wind impact um and a generator tap box in case of long-term electrical outages so thank you thank you all right item five environment and natural resource advisor committee uh annual report and work plan and The Changing of the Guard good morning Clay Urban director of growth and Resource Management also joining from staff will be Samantha West director of our resiliency as well as Ginger dare our division director for Environmental Management uh part of the uh enabling legislation that created enra the environment and natural resource advisory committee required that they provide the council with a summary of what they accomplished from the previous year as well as a pending work program for the uh upcoming year so today uh we're um able to have molissa Lamers who is the chairman be able to present that information at that time the council can accept the report and uh comment on the uh work program and we'll take it from [Music] there thank you Mr Iran and uh just for the record I reside in District 4 Mr Kent District happy New Year congratulations on being Vice chair Mr Reinhardt um enra is an extension of you the County Council and your Valia County Home Rule Charter responsibility to have minimum standards to protect the environment and to prevent substantial adverse effects on it our role is to bring to you recommendations for updating those standards and the ordinances that will support them to ensure balanced representation there are many professions represented on enra agriculture commercial development environmental science accounting land use law environmental engineering community planning commercial real estate environmental advocacy architecture and marketing so you can imagine we do have vigorous discussions before we bring those recommendations to you our major accomplishment over the past year were the finalizing of ordinances for low impact development or liid and more and for storm water both of these should be transmitted to you um this month in fact next week I believe at the Tuesday special meeting all of us on enra excuse me have been moved by the suffering from flooding of our fellow citizens loow impact development and revised storm water ordinances should help to minimize future flooding but we need a holistic approach our recommended 2025 work plan was agreed upon based in great part on what we gleaned from Council meetings prior to January 14th special meeting at that meeting you discussed the many causes of flooding from record rainfall to outdated storm water ponds to the elimination of or encroachment upon Wetlands by construction and more that's what we've grappled with a sense of great urgency to get revised ordinances to you and an equally great sense of responsibility to get them right and a recognition that there is is no one Silver Bullet we uh at no one Silver Bullet um we need multiple tools and they're all interrelated from nature-based Solutions like Wetlands to engineered Solutions like storm water basins B flood plane management among them ultimately we look to you to give us our priorities as you see them we'll continue to do our best to address them as thoroughly as we're able and last but not least I would like to recognize the very hard work that staff does to help us understand problems and potential solutions from multiple angles I think you got a glimpse of that on January 14th they've been wonderful to work with and we continue to support you as best we can thank you very much if you have any questions you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair thank you for the important update I wanted to I was curious did in any of the um times that the enra committee got together and thank you for your service also um was there any um analysis or conversation on on as it pertains to um low impact development was there any discussion on pros and cons uh on this because this is I'm thinking is fairly new for my understanding this concept cep um Can was that looked at because we we're going to adopt this let's say this and 203 40 years from now the effects of low impact development standards may or may not be up for review again and did we do it right right did we see potential or null warnings on how this could affect so um I'm I'm guessing I'm trying to say um are we being a little bit trying to be Visionary also and looked at examples of other low developments that may have had challenges that we can be ahead of in our policy Implement so first of all and thank you for that question it's a good one and it's a broad one yes we did have deliberations but I might mention that we look we have to go ordinance by ordinance and liid is the new one we bring to you we brought you a hybrid approach in which um developers would be required to adopt two out of a broad menu of techniques or tactics that they could employ and if they did more than that their choice they would get incentives because at the time that we brought that to you which was October of 2023 you were under the restrictions of sb250 and you could not approve that so we have a completely voluntary Approach at this time and that is what is going to come before you next week um low impact development may not be right in every single situation um or it might be very right in many situations and that choice especially under the hybrid approach that that choice lies with the developer it is one tool in our tool kit in terms of knowing about the future none of us has a crystal ball some of the storm water ponds that are currently not functioning optimally were not designed for the amounts of rainfall that we are having now and really whether you accept a stricter design standard for those stor storm water ponds depends greatly on whether or not you believe that these rainfall patterns are anomalous or if you believe that they are the new normal and we have to look to science to give us their best guidance for that we know that sea level rise is real we know that that brings the water table up and we know that that means that we have to change our design standards to deal with that and there are always tradeoffs and that's why in my letter to you before the January 14th meeting I said it was very important for citizens to understand some of these tradeoffs so that they can be supportive of the solutions to them um I know that's a bit of a wonky answer but we spent many hours on low impact Development I've tried to wrap it up for you please tell me if you'd like to know more no thank you very much I guess you know when we have our our meeting to to going more in depth you know some of that can be vetted out a little bit more but I appreciate that it was part of the conversation cuz you know you right we're up here now but we got blamed for policies of the past and you know I hope happens to another Council in 2025 or 30 or 100 years from now but um we we'll do the best we can I guess that's a good goal to aim for I will see you next week thank you any other questions thank you any other questions for uh Ginger Adair anybody else then um do I have a motion motion to accept the report have a motion to accept second Johansson by Vice chair Kent and the second was by councilman Joe Hanson pardon me no we haven't voted yet okay Vice chair Matt Reinhardt okay we have one member of the public that would like to speak Jessica gal good morning everyone for the record Jessica gal um I'm gonna say with inra but with cob Co one Daytona Boulevard Daytona Beach Florida I'm currently serving as Vice chair of enra but just here to speak as a citizen really um tried not to because Sun sh law but we'll disclose it at the next inra meeting I I do want to focus on something that I think Melissa said very very well which is that inra is really focused on how we develop in the future and the best practices and what we can build in and some of that may trickle down into Redevelopment and maybe some infill um but there's a large gap between what this committee can do in looking at Land Development regulations um to fix existing flooding problems without additional help from this Council and so to any extent that I think all of our members would love to be involved in that discussion um when it goes outside of what the the text of the code says and how we can update that I think that we would be doing so a little bit in our individual capacities unless we got that policy direction from Council that you'd like us to brainstorm those types of ideas and so while we have a lot of passion on our group and a lot of diverse interest that I think is a fantastic group we are also constrained by the policy direction of the enabling ordinance and the direction we get from this Council so we are here to help any way we can and thank you guys for all of the support we've had so far thank you important words uh we have a a motion and a second on the table to approve item five the annual report and work plan um uh questions or comment Jake Johansson uh question comment chairman um um Jessica brought up a a a good point and I think it's important maybe we can address it at the next meeting but if if we had that guidance to enra to take on something that that they aren't currently um that isn't currently included in our Direction but they're all passionate about it I go back to her previous comment on Sunshine if we include it then they can talk about it once a month right now it's not includ Ed and they're talking about it over coffee and they're all passionate about it and they're all they all have access to us more so probably because they're members of the enra I get emails from Melissa and Jessica all the time um so so I caution as I do with most advisory Committees of putting them under the umbrella of an advisory committee which limits their passions and limits their ability to be uh tactical and agile in reporting back to us some uh uh some good thoughts as individual citizens with passion um so those are my only comments on that and NRA thank you chairman thank you any other questions any other comments then all in favor of approving say I I any opposed and item five is approved 7 to zero it takes us to item six which is a quasi judicial hearing so in just a moment I'll ask if there is any exp parte but this is an appeal to the County Council of the development Review Committee condition that the number of canines housed on the site cannot cannot exceed 30 animals xart you said Mr chairman yes um I did receive a phone call from a uh uh valuan county law enforcement officer um advocating for the applicant so did I okay I I did not receive that phone call um but I got emails that I think all of us got yeah yeah so uh councilman Robins uh Vice chair Reinhardt and councilman Santiago all got phone calls the rest of us got emails multiple emails so um Mr chairman before we can I can I get a moment if I can um council members I'm just remembering the last time we heard this um we spent a lot of time and um just making an Ask let's not rehash the questions that we asked last time um and had the debate about that I think staff and the applicant has gone to some several conversations let's see whatever that difference is and make a decision on it I just anyway I'll leave it there works for me clay Irvin good morning CLA Iran director of growth and Resource Management this item was continued by the County Council from December 3rd 2024 meeting in order to allow for the uh business owner who is the appellant to uh meet with neighbors go over the request to exceed 30 dogs on the site and uh discuss what could be done just to clarify the appeal um the uh business owner is appealing the development review committee's approve approval of a site plan for this facility with the Restriction that it cannot be ex uh occupied by more than 30 dogs as part of the operation uh their concern is that uh they have uh more dogs on that at site that historically has been that way uh also just kind of from a historical perspective the previous business owner who is still the property owner uh initiated uh the operation many years ago has gone through several iterations of this special exception has gone through code issues because they have not obtained permits now they are trying to close out all of those issues so that they can close out the site plan close out the building permits fix fix the site for the wetlands and other aspects that they've impacted so that the business can continue to operate uh we um did have communications with the appellant who indicated they did send out notices to affected Property Owners um and that no one was in attendance at that meeting um they also indicated that they are willing to amend their request from 100 dogs to 75 dogs if that is something that the council would be willing to entertain that being the case I will allow them to speak about what other issues may be at hand and we'll be here an available to answer any questions you may have thank you the oh like to speak first thank you uh members of the council my name is Joseph koves I'm an attorney from the ls Law Firm I have a few other members of the appellant team here with me who want to offer some comments on behalf of the business I agree um for the most part with the representations by staff just to sort of set up and remind you all of the history the facility has been operating at its uh location for about 20 or so years maybe a few years more than that my client um southern coast K9 um the client ownership team purchased that business in 2020 the the property owner continued to run it until about 2023 when um the new ownership team took over day-to-day operations when we purchased the property in all candra we had no idea there were you know the ongoing zoning issues issues with with the special exception the owner said he would handle all that stuff right we were not involved in the site plan approval process which was one of the conditions for the special exception we had no idea that 30 dog limit would be imposed until we got the final approved development order uh back in August or September of this year it was not a condition we agreed to it was not a condition we knew about when we purchased the facility there were there were Bays for about $100 and historically it was our understanding the facility it operated with about 100 dogs since we found out about the limit we have done what we can to reduce the number of dogs on site but these are specially trained dogs uh shelters won't take them we can't just open our doors and let these dogs run free so as I said last time we've been working to reduce the number of dogs on site it's currently averaging about 60 dogs that are there um we if obviously if we don't are not successful in this appeal um we ask for some time to come into compliance because again we can't just open the doors and let these dogs out we have to find them homes we have to find them someplace to go but we we do very much want to find a number above 30 that the council is comfortable with and then allows us to continue the operation of our business um we have a lot of support from law enforcement we did hold a neighbor meeting we invited every neighbor to the property nobody came we gave email addresses and phone numbers in there nobody contacted us on Friday I got a few of these emails sent to me that um staff got a couple weeks ago and about 15 minutes ago I got some additional emails that have come in since then so I've had not had a lot of time to go through these I will point out a few of these say they're fine with the number of dogs that are there now there appears to be a mistaken assumption that we currently have 30 and we're asking to increase that to 100 and that's that's simply not the case last time we talked about 75 dogs that would be wonderful that would allow us to continue uh unfortunately to my disappointment staff has not had a meaningful conversation with us about a number um I believe staff was just relying on what the neighbor said and again no neighbors engaged with us directly about the number so we have been unable to um talk to anybody about a different number um again we would be happy with 75 if the council approves that but if there's some other number we'd like to have a conversation about it we'd like to have it considered I'm going to defer to a few members of my team to offer some other comments I would ask to reserve a few minutes I understand there are some folks here um some neighbors who want to speak on the issue I would respectfully request a few minutes to address any new comments or any comments that they have um at this meeting if I may um right now I'll Chris you wantan to I don't have any comments right now just good morning Council Christopher P with the law firm Banker Lopez G please use the microphone so that public can hear good morning Council Christopher P with the law firm Banker Lopez gastor co-counsel for the uh appellant Chris Christina leapold with Southern go K9 I think I spoke to you before um I think that was well said by by our attorney um we just want to come to I would like to work with our neighbors we just haven't had a chance to um I don't know why but um uh they don't know me and um I think that if they got to know me they would discover that I do care and that um we do want to come to a resolution that works for for all of us um thank you thank you uh questions from Council um councilman Santiago staff question first we're here today for a um an appeal correct yes sir of our previous decision of no of the development review committee's approval of the site plan with a restriction of $30 dogs cor thank you for reminding me in our agenda packet we have uh information regarding a variance right right yes options I guess for variance right was the variance approach discussed with the applicant as an option not a variance it basically it's this and and and one of the things that staff has to do is provide the council with the different options they have the first option you have is to accept the information provided by the appellant indicating that they that the DRC uh did not have substantial grounds to authorize the approval of the site plan with a limitation of only 30 dogs and that they can go forward now without any limitation per se um and once they clean up the building permits and clean up the site plan they're good to go that's if you approve their appeal If you deny the appeal they still have the opportunity to apply for an amendment to the existing special exception to come forward uh through the public hearing process at the planning Land Development regulation commission and ultimately in front of you for approval of this um you know subject to any kind of additional information that they want to talk to us about in regards to how they can mitigate fur the complaints that we've received from the residents okay thank you for that and and and one wait one more question um I remember when we dealt with some dog kennel uh issue here in the council also I think it was a variance or it might have been a special exception special exception okay similar and in that process that we dealt with there were certain requirements that that particular property had to do with a burm or trees and um and distances and stuff like that do we know if this property complies or are they willing to comply there any discussions around that similar operations but not 100% uh that was a facility where they were going to actually have dog shows where they do basically the outside agility and those types of things so there were limitations on the hours of operation uh because the residents did have neighbors uh come in to complain about the potential noise they were required to do additional buffering around the property lines where they were adjacent to single family homes so if they went through the amendment of the special exception those standards or or those new I'll just say new standards lack of a better term would be part of the discussion to uh put forward before the council uh that could be again when you look at special exceptions one of the things that the planning and Land Development regulation commission and the County Council can do is identify additional conditions that they feel are appropriate remember what a special exception is uh in our zoning ordinance you have uses that are permitted by right that means you come in you meet the zoning regulation you meet all the other Land Development regulations you get a building permit you go a special exception means this use may be appropriate in some of these areas where this zoning is but subject to certain conditions and we have to go through this hearing process so that that way we're making sure that it is you know a round Peg going into a round hole so again as part of the special exception process staff planning Land Development regulation commission and the County Council can identify conditions that are site specific to address potential concerns okay and if we approv the appeal they're requesting that essentially is just saying no limit uh uh right now uh the way that the application came through back in 2022 there were questions about the number of dogs the uh Property Owners attorney Jo Joey posie from Storage law firm indicated 30 dogs were the maximum this was conferred into the staff report that was part of the special exception if the council feels that that was not s sufficient uh for the special exception to have that as a limitation then there is no limitation other than what they may profer here today okay and then if we deny the appeal they have the option to go toward amending the special exception and go through the staff process and come back yes sir thank you thank you Mr chair um Danny before I call on you want to make sure his questions I'm just reading what's on the screen we could also approve it and allow for the facility to hold 75 dogs today yes sir and then it wouldn't have to come back question yes sir if then okay councilman uh Robbins thank you chairman clay what do we have for enforcement arms in place to protect our residents you know the majority of my complaints that come in are speed in that area speeding and uh noise I know um go ahead metal Lane is a private road so we do not have law enforcement on that um but we do have chapter 50 of the code of ordinances which pertains to the noise ordinance so they could file a complaint they being the adjacent Property Owners indicating and there's two different methods of doing that there's one where a decimal meter reader is a decimal meter is read at the property line to see if it exceeds the limits that are in the code the other is uh basically annoying noise and sound which requires the property owner to file an affidavit and we proess process that through the Circuit Court thank you I don't know if this is out of bounds because um evidence-wise but I I got to ask this question do we know if the um app pellet um is able to uh either proactively I mean they're here today um add any um noise barriers anything uh additionally that they've done to prepare for this ask uh just my biggest concern I said you know is is the residents around there and I'm trying to find a middle ground uh for this anything that they profer to you today can be and I'm looking to mror to address the issue with the appeal if they come up and say they're willing to do X Y and Z and they believe that is sufficient to address the potential noise complaints that's something that the council can take in consideration when making their decision [Music] okay thank you uh Paul Sor senior assistant County attorney that's correct um this is this is an appeal denovo so essentially think of it as a doover you have the drc's um actions and recommendations but you can approve the appeal you can approve the appeal with alternate conditions or you can deny the appeal um additionally regarding noise complaints um you know noise complaints can occur regardless of the number of dogs because it's you know more likely you will get a noise complaint with more dogs but that's not a guarantee you can get a noise complaint with five dogs or 10 dogs we handle and treat noise complaints on you know as they come in and um prosecute them and um uh you know regardless of you know the conditions on the permit do we know if we've been uh if there's ever been any violations there um noise complaints that I believe there were two previous noise complaints I think those persons have moved um there may be one in process right now but that's going that's being processed any of them been prosecuted or held accountable for those noise complaints in the past do we know well we're we're processing them so we can okay thanks councilman Hanson yeah so interesting that thank you chairman interesting that uh we already have noise complaints because I I basically was going to complain to get somebody out there with a with a uh uh deible reader to find out what what it actually is the fact that we don't have that information here uh is is probably something we should ask for last time um so if if this does get kicked down the road yet again I would like somebody to go out there at random times and and check it cuz that's the main complaint on the other complaint in clay I know this is somewhere in the packet I think I read it in this one or the other one but who owns the road it's private road it's basically privately owned by who the property owners are adjacent to it it's not a uh County maintain facility got it so so no one person is it's the whole group of them including these folks yes sir yeah um so a couple things uh bother me I guess were in question so so I'll I'll just tell you that the fact that that these folks can't get together on a weekday or a weekend um and come up with a a speed limit that they all agree including somebody said are our law enforcement zips up and down I don't know what Zips means but um and that we don't have a decimal um reading on the dogs and we do have a law that states you can't go over that to me that's the limit if you can have 500 dogs and they all fit and they're quiet or they don't encroach on the neighbors above the DB limit then then I'm fine with this but uh I'll wait for a debate thank you chairman I do need to clarify there there's two SE in chapter 50 that pertain to noise one is very specific in regards to where you have uh decimal uh levels established then two sections later in 50- 478 it's loud disturbing or unnecessary noises that does not require a decibel meter to be utilized that's basically a neighbor saying that my neighbor has X going on it's loud it's annoying I'm filing an affidavit with this Valia County Sheriff's Office and I want this prosecuted and that is what we are in the process of doing right now those types of um uh complaints we have to process those through the circuit courts so I just want to make sure that there's Clarity in regards and the complaints that we have received so far are not tied to section 476 or 50- 476 they're tied to 50- 478 I hate to split hair but still like to see hear what the decel limit is if I can tie it to that it makes it a lot easier for me and and and it makes it a lot easier to give a little latitude if if it is below because you know what sometimes the frogs in my retention Pond out front keep me awake I I can't do anything about that can I so thanks thank you uh can you bring up uh slide 635 just picture of the area um next one that's is that the one that's the one on the on the right can we get just the right uh that that's good that's fine um I'm curious and I don't know if this is if you know the answer to this or the owners um there there's two things that I'm considering here one is uh has the how long has the business been there and were the neighbors here or do the neighbors uh come in and and then my other concern is what Jake's talking about that they have to be good neighbors they have to protect uh everybody around them from from sound so who the old question who is here first um we do have a code complain excuse me code enforcement case going back to past two 2015 uh that's when we were identified that prior to was when the initial complaints were coming through and that's when we met with the property owner to go over what was necessary to validate that type of use in that area and that's what initiated the special exception over this time frame we've been you know as the appellant brought up is that we've been dealing with this property owner for a considerable amount of time trying to work with him to address the structures that were brought on there without permits the impacts of the site that were done without permits and a use that requires a special exception and so we got the special exception approved twice um both times uh the property owner came in but never completed the process uh we were uh taking them to code enforcement board when the 2022 special exception was uh reapproved back back then and with Clarity that they had to get in to get the special uh the site plan and building permits addressed so you have roughly I would say 10 to 11 years of where this thing has been operating you know uh where staff has been working with them to try and make it legitimate and just looking at the houses this is a pretty rural area but there are houses around it some of them are are fairly close I'm assuming they have been there longer than 11 years I I wouldn't be able to answer that right now but as you can see there has been it is an area that has been subject to residential development and it does have that zoning okay all right uh can I just address a few of the the comments sure and questions so I'll I'll start off by saying that in about 2014 2015 as a part of these applications all the neighbors did sign off on and approve of this operation um you know and that that was part of the background history when my client purchased the business again I represent the business owner not the landowner I am in no way involved with a land owner I was not involved in any of these prior applications I represent the business owner um if you can imagine the mere fact that we're here today we've had some problems with the owner in terms of what we thought we were buying and what we actually bought um in order to apply for a variance it's my understanding under the county code we need the owner authorization as the the business owner not the property owner we can't without the property owner authorization apply for a variance so our only option to bring this 30 dog limit before the council was this appeal right in no way are we trying to skirt the system or or or cheat the system we are really trying to bring this issue to light in the way that we feel we can so we have access we are trying to be good neighbors prior to receiving these emails on Friday and today the only neighbor opposition current opposition we are aware of was from uh Mrs Bowen and her husband who live sort of adjacent to the front of our facility we understood they had complaints we emptied out the housing building closest to their home and we put up a wall shielding it um the other housing areas for for the dogs in an attempt to address her concerns so we just today become aware of of other neighbors sort of behind us that may have some issues too and we do want to work with them we want to be good neighbors um we want to do things to fit into the community not separate ourselves um and again you know we we understand the concerns of council we understand the concerns of neighbors particularly with noise as has been pointed out we're subject to the noise restrictions in the county code regardless of how many dogs are there um so I I again urge the counil to to think about this you this is a quasi judicial proceedure the standard for evidence and for support is competent and substantial as was pointed out last time the the 30 dog number has no basis in anything it was a number that was sort of made up um what we have is historically there's space for 100 dogs there we we bought a facility for 100 dogs we're asking for something between 30 and 100 that will allow us to continue an operation so thank you okay stay right there Paulo can I think you started off this I want to make sure I understand it right that in 2014 2015 all the neighbors signed an affidavit or something saying they approved of it do you have evidence of that was an affidavit that was all part of the original approval of the special exception the applicant at that time who is the pro current property owner was a property owner then went around basically got authoriz letters from the adjacent Property Owners indicating they he did not object to him proceeding with the special exception okay so just a letter among neighbors you also before we go much further I do need to clarify please don't use the term variance we are not seeking a variance variance only applies to a dimensional standard that's applicable for setbacks what we're talking about today is a special exception which pertains to use and so yes when we were seeking the approval of the original special exception to address the code violation which was a use not otherwise allowed um the property owner did what many people do they go around to their neighbors tell them what they're trying to do and get a letter from that neighbor and submit it as part of their application we see that happen in many situations so they are on record they were part of the official file and official minutes when the original uh special exception was approved okay thank you very much uh councilman Robbins uh clay don't get comfortable I got two hopefully two quick questions um in your professional opinion what recommendations today can you make to council to to um for any additional to pretty much profer for any additional noise reduction measures that we can do uh can we do bamboo can we do something um for noise reduction I don't I don't know what you know so uh you know anytime that we're asked from a technical perspective obviously walls fences Landscaping bming are all things that can be done along the perimeter to assist with some of the noise abatement uh this is one where uh I would defer to what the operator would be identifying as well because they know how they operate where they take the dogs in the morning where they put the dogs at night the noise levels that would be expected um so we would work with them in regards to that um so yes when we have a situation where noise light or other such things are impeding on an adjacent property owner we as staff come on and identify what could be identified as specific conditions so it wouldn't it would be within our realm to say if if you said for instance hey plant um this around your perimeter for um noise reduction would that be something we can negotiate today I from your staff perspective we're not ready to sit here and say that you know bamboo pointed you know clumping bamboo just we can sit there and say if the council feels that it's appropriate to authoriz us to proceed without the 30 dog restrictions we would request that you ask uh that you include in that motion that the applicant has to work with staff to come up with noise abatement proceedings that would be incorporated into the final site plan and so then that way we could work with them to come up with as you were saying whatever uh landscaping bming or fence combination thereof could be appropriate in helping reduce the noise and impacts on the adjacent properties that is typically something what we do when we go through the process let me clarify the 30 dogs again it was a question raised where the applicant who is the property owner indicated 30 dogs no more the reason why there was concern about the noise so it's correct there's no magic number as regards to that but that was the number that was sufficient to get them through the planning and Land Development regulation commission to wind up here in front of the County Council so yes it was based on something that was proferred by the property owner as a method of addressing a concern in regards to noise impacts associated with the dog number of dogs on the site similar situation could occur here if yall feel that you know that that uh was not necessarily a hard and fast condition of the special exception and that the DRC overstepped its bounds by utilizing that number but you feel 75 is inappropriate I would say that please send it back to staff so that we can work with the property owner to come up with the appropriate method of mitigating the noise if if we did compromise on a number today in a few weeks few months or a year if this got out of hand does this body have the uh the right to bring this back and say hey enough we have with prior R and revoke the the approval because what I'm trying to do is hold some accountability here I don't want I I have to protect my my people and and I don't want to encumber them and and disturb them any more than than than possible just so people know where I'm coming from but I need to hold I need to hold them I need a tool to hold them more accountable than just a a noise ordinance we have in the past with prior councils when this situation has occurred put in a oneyear to twoyear time frame where staff would come back and identify if there had been any code violations uh that were associated with the the condition of at at hand uh the one that comes to mind I think the latest one was the Stetson golf training facility uh that was one that many of the residents came up and were concerned about lights uh about golf ball landing on their farm and having their cows eat them so there were a lot of things going on there they requ part of the approval was a report back within a year that did occur there was um still some concern that was extended for six months and then it was resolved after that but I have seen that done here um It's a situation where um we would want to make sure it's tied to something that is measurable and that staff can verify and report back understood thanks Clay a reply to that the appellant would agree to those conditions to Chairman quick point of order I've just never seen a a a public hearing go like this where the attorney is going to do a rebuttal after everybody talks I respectfully I heard you ask the chairman if at the end when everybody spoke if you could have a moment to come up which I think is very kind of VI chairman to allow that but if we're going to allow him to come up and rebut everything that is said what about the residents that have cars let them come up and rebut everything that said I think the attorney is more than capable at the end he can keep notes on all of this stuff and at the end he can come up and read about it all but going back to what Mr Santiago said you know this is the second time we've had this in front of us and I want to make sure it's a fair hearing but I want to make sure we're doing this as efficiently as possible chairman okay I think Paulo rebuttal was always part of this process I maybe the question is at what part but I I could tell when he was speaking you you had a question or something you wanted to say and I assumed it would be well-placed after we just heard right what clay said and and I hear that chairman but I heard the attorney ask for it at the end after he heard everybody speak and I'm assuming you're thinking he wanted to rebut because he was standing up but there's a woman who's been standing up over here the entire time as well yeah we we have a about eight people that want to talk as soon as we're done asking questions from the public and we should hear them yes I just for the record I don't intend to reut anything I that was just said I just would we would agree to those conditions that was the only make thank you uh councilman Dempsey for questions he if I could get you to stand up one more time if this was a if this was not a commercial Enterprise and this was just rather a private property owner who wanted to have 75 dogs for his Zone not allowed by our zoning ordinance you're not it would not be allowed no sir what is there what is the limit for just a I want is it five or six five or six I can't remember off the top of my head but we do have a restriction on the number of uh dogs that can be there for the very reason we're talking about because then you become a commercial kennel commercial breeder just merely by the number of dogs yes sir okay that's all I wanted thank you okay that's the uh end of questions so I will call the public that wanted to speak um uh Katie Bowden there's many reasons this should be denied the first one is why are we allowing somebody who's just leasing this land make changes to this land permanently that right there is simple and again I ask I asked last time do you want to sing it next to you 75 dogs barking right by your house you're trying to sit there outside enjoy coffee just enjoy being out in the world you cannot we are prisoners of our own homes we can't even open our Windows because all I hear are dogs I even tried to hold a family event the other day huh guess what dogs were barking oh my God I actually had to reach out and say hey can you please keep them quiet which I will say they did try to work with me but you know what when does it stop and again why is this person who is leasing this land get to make changes and you know what back in 2015 they're saying people sign things you know what maybe he only had five dogs back then now how do we need to have 60 80 90 100 I don't know and you know what this place this variance has been going on since 2021 and nothing is being settled when does it stop when does the kicking the can down the road stop oh and and August 27 2024 the DRC meeting they've had 60 days to do their site permit to make the changes to try to put Burns and such up still haven't done it August 20 27th 2024 we are February 2025 way past their 60 days to make these changes they refuse to do it because the business owner and the property owner are fighting they're suing each other over this place neither of them care neither of them is going to spend the money to make the changes appropriate that you are stipulating that need to be changed so they can operate this commercial business on our residential Road this is a dirt road we have speed bumps on a dead end dirt road because of the speeding that this company is causing our roads so if you increase it to 100 dogs 75 dogs how many more vehicles are going to be doing that we already had neighbors move if I could move tomorrow I would leave because this is just horrendous to live next to but you know what too if they're going to sit there and not even abide by the rules for 30 dogs why should they even be allowed 31 so since let's say what 2015 they've been not fulfilling their terms of this variance or what is it special exemption sorry so this special exemption they are refusing to do it but yeah we're sitting here thinking about allowing them more dogs why I don't understand it if I did something wrong you would call me to the carpet and do it I didn't pull a permit you know what hey that's my bad I'm going to pay monies I'm going to fix it they destroyed Wetlands they built buildings and they erased their amount will this on their own and then they yet to continue to do so oh oh sorry yep NOP that's okay that's okay don't worry about it everybody else can live in complete howl down this road I thank you guys for your time I really really beg you do not allow this thank you for your comments uh next we have Deborah bishop and um I I would just say as you come down to speak if if you're a neighbor if you could fit into your uh three minutes did did you receive the request for a neighborhood meeting and or not Deborah can you use the microphone we did get the letter at my house 685 CAD corner from the kennel um but I had a medical appointment that day that I felt was a little more important okay so um I've been a resident of valouch County since 1961 I built my dream home on metal Lane in 20 uh 2004 meaning we've been on the property since about 2002 at that time the kennel had maybe 15 12 dogs and he was in retired sheriff for getting ready to and I knew him and everything was fine but the buildings built more the more dogs more traffic more handlers more trainers more delivery trucks more construction trucks I even one day went out and stopped a patrol car from some County that had gone down the road twice so fast I stood out in the road stopped him and I said excuse me can you slow down he says I was on a call he was from a different County they don't do that he lied to me he said well my Sheriff's right behind me I'll let you talk to him my my sergeant same thing from him this kind of stuff has to stop it it's just it's my home it they're 2 and A2 acre lots we don't need all this the kennel is too big you can't quiet down 75 dogs or 100 dogs you can't unless you put bark cers on them that's happened with getting sores all over the necks that's happened in the past so we need help we need you guys to say hey this is enough your questions before you asked yeah if I want to build a kennel on my property would you guys allow 100 dogs on mine two and a half acres the answer would be no can we take that 100 dog kennel and put it next to your house or your house do you want it no we don't want it either I wanted a nice retirement Dream Home in a rural community away from everything and everybody it it's going away please help please help help us the people that live there I don't need my rest of my minutes thank you thank you Gerald Bishop the same she does hi southern coast kennel is a working dog kennel primarily buying training and selling dogs the school is only small part of the of the operation the students keep their dogs with them all the time they don't keep them in the kennel nobody keeps their dogs in the kennel so why do they need extra kennel space the dogs on the property are kept outside in a 5x10 kennel chain leak kennel on concrete slabs with metal roofs this is an open air kennel so the dogs are exposed to the elements of the weather severe Hots severe cold the dogs lay on concrete C concrete where they urinate and defecate can you imagine a 100 dogs outside in the cold on the concrete during the last three months where it's really cold how did the county let a 30 dog kennel become a 100 dog kennel for years without the property owner obtaining any permits or permission is it because the property owner was a retired blch County sheriff and he SED dogs to all the police departments in the Valia County and elsewhere or is it that he knows people at work in the county and people in politics I know some of you know him is this some of the good old boy policies you have a h 100 dog kennel that has a quantity of explosive and drugs kept in a residential area do you think the sheriff keeps his explosive drugs in a residential area residents here have been putting up with the barking dogs speeding traffic delivery trucks going down a dead end dirt road for years the road desperately needs 25 loads of shell or more to bring it back to where I moved there 21 years ago the owner of the business lives in Texas the owner of the property moved to venician Bay I wonder why would you like to live next to a 100 dog kennel where a quantity of explosives and drugs are kept as well as barking dogs I have seen the site plans for the property the owner of the business nor the owner of the property are going to spend the money on the for the changes because they are suing each other the property owner will keep asking for special exemptions and fenes so that they can keep getting extensions to keep the business running at the expense of the residents it's all about the money I ask you please not to authorize this to be a h 100 dog kennel thank you thank you uh Janet is it mines or Manz my name is Janet mines I live on the next Road over from southern coast K9 a commercial kennel and it is located in the middle of a really beautiful area our homes are our retirement homes they there are no trailers it's uh no mobile homes no manufactured homes we built out there 20 years ago for our retirement um I even though I said I'm on the next Road over I we hear the dogs I can't tell you how many times we've had family reunions and friends over and we have been forced off of our back porch to go into our home because of the noise but not only the noise the dirt roads are being destroyed we own we are that is a private road and we do own 15 ft of that road that's our road and we've been like where I live on my road the next one over we pay all the neighbors get together and we pay for maintenance of our road but the heavy traffic on sarento to get to meta and the children that we have they have to walk to the bus stop I'm concerned for the safety of the children I'm concerned for the quality of our roads you can't just keep grading it and Grading it it needs work it needs it we need help to allow more dogs is just not a real it's not a good idea I never received a request from anyone for any kind of mediation meeting or I would have been there I and my husband and myself and our neighbors and our friends were all impacted on this we request your kind consideration to not approve any more dogs please we are residential this is commercial and maybe they could find another area that I'm begging you and I do appreciate your time thank you thank you Sandra schlager hi thank you for all your questions today they were really good questions I thought in this matter um so I live on the northwest side of this property um my property adjoins them so um a lot of your questions I've been there since for uh 2010 so I've been there 14 years so I know a lot about the history I've experienced a lot of the history of this kennel um this kennel it has been loud in the past um it uh it has never had the problems that I am experiencing today which has been really the smell the smell of the dogs um poop to put in other words um I can smell it from my house I can smell it from my garage and that is the biggest issue to me today if they can't care care for the dogs that are there today why would we increase the number of dogs they can have in the future they need to show that they can handle the dogs that are there today before we ex we increase the capacity and that is my main concern I do want to address um I think it was uh Jake johannson's question about the noise the dogs are nothing like frogs they are much larger and then the other piece about that y'all talked about bamboo um and adding the BMS and stuff a lot of those buildings do are close to the property line there's not enough room to add a burm there you can't you shouldn't add bamboo because it's invasive to the to the um area so you need there needs to be another solution so that's all I have thank you thank you for your comments Chris slager I umum so my family and I live in the joining parcel to the to the property in question um and you've heard a lot about sound and smells and uh the impact on us and all of that is is not up for debate we live there we know what it is it is an impact to our daily lives and and to our quality of life so I don't want to talk about that I want to talk about your responsibility and I want to ask that you would be mindful of who you represent the owners of this uh of this company live in Texas their clientele are by and large from outside the county even more from outside the state some from outside the Country Carpet Baggers is that your term so uh so I'd like you to think about who you represent do you want to vote to approve this and benefit folks that are from out of town folks that serve a clientele that's from out of the county that don't pay taxes here or do you want to b or do you want to vote to benefit uh folks that live here pay taxes here voted for you put you in the seats that you're in um I just request that you be mindful of who you represent and who votes for you thank you for your comments uh Kent Meyer good morning thank you for the opportunity to speak to you about this issue uh my name is Kent Meer my wife and I live at 690 napol Lane um I appreciate the opport to speak to you today we are one street over from metal Lane and situated almost directly east of the K9 Training Center the uh current level of barking every day by the dogs at various times throughout the day is more than a hindrance but rather it's an obstruction uh to the enjoyment of what normally would be an extremely peaceful setting a shame on me when I bought my place the few minutes I was on the property to view it when it was for sale uh the dogs happened not to be barking very much the next time I was there I was too deep into the contract to back out it was a full-on Onslaught and I thought what did I get myself into me that get into that's my problem for not researching but to approve something to increase the number of dogs at this point that is something that we I can speak to and that we should not be doing uh 75 dogs would literally be an onslaught against the peace and enjoyment of our neighborhood when the dogs are barking it is Extremely Loud where we are located I cannot imagine what what it is like for our neighbors on metal Lane in reality no amount of improvement or installation of fencing Etc will take care of the significant increase in noise level also more than doubling the amount of traffic in and out of the neighborhood would be a major hindrance to our privately maintained roads we have experienced high levels of dogs housed at the property and the noise level is a major frustration driving you off your own porch back inside your home where you can still hear them even at times through in inside your house uh another significant issue for all of us would be the devaluation of our properties an increase of dogs means a decrease of private property value if the southern coast K9 wants to expand I'm a I'm Pro business uh they can do so but they should do it somewhere else not at the expense of all the private residential homes and neighbors uh in the area I want to I just want to ask you to strongly consider the negative impact on all the homeowners in this area if approval is given to increase in any amount the number of dogs housed at southern coast K9 thank you very much I want I want to note I did get the invitation to attend the meeting although I had to work that day I'm off today so that's why I'm here to speaking today thank you thank you for your comments John Nicholson John N Tony beachs side um I was here the the last time this came uh you do realize that there are two different entities the first entity comes in talks to his neighbors I have a couple of dogs I'm going to train okay I work for the uh Sheriff's Department I'm going to train some dogs I said okay sure not a problem lady comes up and says oh I don't know how many they were there probably 12 or 15 most people would say okay not a problem the police department needs the dogs uh um down the line uh he's asked to do certain things all right get this exception do this do that he doesn't do it he builds where he shouldn't build he builds without permits it goes on for 11 15 years and he doesn't do anything he's out of compliance and that he sells not the land but the business and they assume that all of this is kosher well sorry you have to do your due diligence if you're going to lease no what you're leasing okay I feel sorry for them but think of all the neighbors they live there when we were here last time someone said oh the lady that was complaining moved she couldn't take the dog so she moved now I'm hearing another person moved then a lady comes up and says and if I could get out I would move why should all the neighbors leave leave because of the barking dogs it makes absolutely no sense so the gentleman that started this this little tiny business has now morphed not to like 12 or 15 not to the 30 that he said oh I'm only going to do 30 they've been doing 60 knowing that they should only be doing 30 but they've been doing 60 and now they're asking for an extension for time to get rid of the dogs because it's only been 15 years to get down to the 30 right I'm asking you to look at it holistically just because somebody did something wrong 15 years ago you don't have to extend it I'm asking you to deny it because of the neighbors I'm asking you to deny it because if somebody does something wrong we can't just sit there say rubber stamp it okay now that you pay a couple of dollars for a permit you can do something that we would never have permitted in the first place so I'm asking you don't compound a mistake by driving all these people away from their own homes thank you thank you for your comments last speaker is Walter uh bant thank you for allowing me to speak my name is Walter borgan I live at 650 medane um I strongly oppose uh this acception request um as with um with them as a business and having an attorney they had ability to doe due diligence they put a significant amount of investment into this business so to not do what I could do in a quick Google search within a few minutes to find out that there's only 30 dogs allowed there I I just find that unbelievable um according to Valia County Section 72136 the purpose of RA zoning is to preserve and protect small farms limited a agricultural production and to ensure the development res remains consistent with the County's comprehensive plan ra ra zoning um designation does not support large-scale commercial operations only home and hobby home businesses and hobby breeders which align with Florida Statutes 559 and 955 and Valia County ordinance um 02138 this is not a home business it's a high-scale commercial operation forced into a small farm residential area despite the loaning zoning laws uh to prevent exactly that type of disruption um the business brings excessive noise High consumer traffic semi- deliveries uh multiple employees far beyond what's reasonable for a royal Community expanding this operation to 100 dogs will only worsen the impacts and I want you to think if they've gotten away with 30 dogs and now they already have a 100 dogs when we get 100 dogs is it going to be 200 or 300 dogs you know so you know we we need to take those things into consideration um additionally as a res presid on metal Lane I never received the notice I live right at the corner right at the front of it never received the notice no one ever reached out to me not by mail not by phone not by a sign not by anything on my door so um you know I strongly uh object to this because I do not feel that it fits into the community you've heard other people U speak and say the same thing as well the only reason I don't think there's hundreds of people here is because there's only 68 houses on metal Lane and that's going to be the same with the other streets next to it if this was a community like Venetian Bay you would had 200 or 300 people here waiting outside the door thank you thank you uh councilman Troy Kent chairman I was going to wait until um all public comment I think the attorney probably wanted to uh have another opportunity like he asked for but after that I'd love to speak okay and before that does anybody uh have any more questions before we move ahead does your comment include a question one question okay okay uh but you would like to hear from the attorney first if you you want to wrap up yes sir thank you um I I just want to address a few points first I'll talk about the uh due diligence aspect and I want to remind the council that when my client purchased the business in 2020 there was no dog limit imposed on this site the limit was imposed about four years after we purchase the business on September 10th of 2024 just this past year we immediately started this appeal process to get the issue before the board or before you all since the day we found out about that limit we have actively been taking steps to reduce the number of dogs there in a good faith effort to comply as I've said we can't just open the doors and let these animals out at the last Hearing in December there was discussion um you know we we've maintained about 60 dogs on site since then pending resolution of of this hearing once we get the final answer obviously we will act accordingly but I I want to set the record straight that we did do due diligence and we have in no sense tried to flagrantly violate any order from the county any code Provisions we are doing our very best to comply um I I also want to correct one point that it is not our intent with this appeal to make any changes to the site unless required as a means of noise abatement the owner has certain requirements with the site plan approval uh for the special exception to make certain changes and alterations to the property to comply with the approved plans um but as far as what this request entails there's no additional construction no additional building that needs to take place uh in order to move that limit from 30 to some higher number I do want to address the again it's very unfortunate to hear these neighbor concerns we we wish they had been brought to us directly to try and address before today I do want to assure the council that these These dogs are highly trained specialized animals they are well taken care of at the facility uh this is a a very um very nice uh location for these dogs it it's not some you know squalid area this is a nice facility we frequently have federal state and local law enforcement agencies there on site um these animals are very well taken care of I I do want to point out that we do contribute to Road upkeep on metal Lane um there were in fact speed bumps put in to try to address some of the concerns about speed I understand they've been removed um by by other residents but we are actively working to maintain the road and and I'll I'll end with this that I I do recognize the the property owner I'm sorry the business owner principles um do live out of state but we employ many people on site who live here and and you know as a business the business operates here the business is incorporated um but it operates here and we would hope that the council applies the code to us same way it would anyone else living in Valia County um we we believe we should be subject to the same standards as every other resident every other business that operates here and our our site manager um Newton here he lives on site he's there every day with the dogs so we do have a local impact it's not just some operation that's run remotely out of valuchi County um the decision today will affect people who live in valuchi County one way or the other Mr chairman can I ask him a question he just sparked it based on his commentary uh yes did did I hear you accurately say that the the the limit uh this current 30 dog limit and the special exception was imposed four years after your client purchased the business yes sir and did your client participate in that process no sir we tried but we were not permitted to participate in that process now how many dogs were operating at that time how many dogs were in the facility at that time approximately we it it varies because you know people come to train we dogs move out but we've operated I think between about 80 and 100 around that time frame it would fluctuate between 80 and 100 when this was done yes sir is that yes sir um one more question Mr chair I my staff this I think this is an important thing for me at least I would say clay when this was this special exception was put in place in 2024 it was done between the property owner and the county is that accurate for me to understand the last special exception was approved in 2022 it was a public hearing so there was notifications posted on the property so the business owner would have seen the orange placard indicating the public hearing process um the site plan is what was is being appealed that was what was approved in 2024 um we were running into again compliance issues with the property owner uh the special exception was approved we did not see the site plan coming in we did not see the building permits but which were all conditions of that special exception and again trying to work with the business owner and to assure some sort of compliance with the code we finally got the application in it made it through and a site plan was approved during that process residents were concerned about the operation and partic participated in the uh review of the site plan and uh Carol McFarland who is your director of planning and development services indicated that the business owner and property owner were fully aware of the site planing process and the ability to participate with our technical review staff and the development Review Committee so the fact is is that the site plan was approved the residents pointed out that in the staff report that went to the County Council for the approval of the special exception in 2022 the statement was made the facility shall be limited to 30 dogs based on concerns raised through the process with the planning and Land Development regulation commission and that's the whole reason we're here thank thank you thank you Mr chair councilman Kent thank you chairman um Mr Santiago's question actually answered the one question that that I had and uh I I just have a few comments now so you can go a and start the clock on me but M clerk I do a followup question then yeah all right I just got a question following up with David in your answer question clay I real quick I need to clarify something I just said I said that they could participate in the technical review staff meeting that is incorrect they were not available for that they could attend though the development review committee meeting just want to make sure the record was clear clay if you could stay up there real quick I'm sorry um just a followup to what uh Mr Santiago was talking about the the council for the the applicant said that uh prior to the 30 dog limit there was no limit on the on the property is that the case I can't remember exactly what was said I know there was discussion about this in 2015 when the original site plan or special exception came through I'd have to go back and check my records but I have it right here the property owner Mr Heiser obtained a special exception s59 a variance for the property in May of 2013 to allow for K9 training facility for up to 40 dogs housed on the site okay so there was a limit even as late as to or as early as 2013 2015 yes sir okay and if before that it would have been a five dog limit like we talked about yes sir okay the five dog limit's been around for how long uh that was all part of the original zoning ordinance that was adopted I Believe In 1980 okay that's all thank you thank you Jake clay quick question now if this uh if there was a motion to deny this appeal how much time would they have if we didn't Grant extra time for them to get the number of dogs down to 30 uh again we would work with them but I mean again it would have to be a reasonable time frame we don't have something written in stone when that needs to happen like tomorrow well again we're working off of chapter 162 which is the the part of Florida Statutes that pertains to code enforcement so at this point because of the appeal everything is held in basically AB bance pending the outcome of the appeal we understand that there are operational issues that would have to be addressed based on the fact that you do have uh animals on site so we would have to look at what would be 30 days is is that a reasonable time to have the dogs placed those types of things and that would be part of the discussion with the applicant and if they were past that time frame we would then proceed forward with code enforcement thank you Mr Shin chairman if I can I'll start with comments now so um can I'd like to ask one more question from again from clay um the dog limit of whatever it is 30 or 75 is that for just for dogs that are housed overnight does it affect dogs that come in during the day for training and then leave my understanding is it's for overnight boarding okay because the training uh and operation did not necessarily have a specific limit I think the idea was that kenneling of dogs is what created the because the day-to-day operations were approved okay are the special exception because it was clearly identified as a school thank you are both things happening school and kenneling is occurring on site and how does that contribute to the number that we're hearing of 60 80 100 dogs I'll have to have them answer the operationally is that all housed animals or daily animals when you come up with that number so I I sorry I just want to clarify the question um you're asking the what we're talk here today talking about number of dogs you're asking that does that only include the dogs that sleep on site overnight or Does it include dogs that are there just for training during the day correct correct that and I'm just wondering if right now if you're doing both if there's dogs housed overnight and dogs that come and go the same day well there there are dogs that come and go in the same day the dogs that are being trained with with people who um are in the classes but then there are dogs that are being housed overnight that are um being trained in for sale for example or maybe are already purchased and are being trained I don't know if that answers yeah so the the dogs that come in for the day to be trained are over and above um whatever limit uh has been imposed whether it's 30 if we went like there there are some that are removed right that would leave during the the evening if that's what you're asking is yes there would be some that just come for the day and then leave and that's an excess of whatever the total number is that you are housing um the ones when we're talking about the 60 number earlier that includes that okay that's what I was trying to find out thank you uh and I um I I think some of our struggle here is when we give numbers like 60 80 to 100 those are averages of all the dogs on site as I understand it so because obviously you know dogs could come and go every day so so those are average numbers that include dogs there for training include dogs that have to stay overnight for whatever reason um I don't know if that answers your question fully Mr chair yes okay Troy before you start uh councilman Robbins did you have another question I was going to make a motion for denial just before we got into comments so we can uh stay on track okay you have a motion my my comments are going to have a motion in it as well and my name was there so okay if you don't mind go ahead thank you chairman I uh I appreciate it so um I'll just I'll briefly just say I I I think your business is a really cool thing and it obviously helps um in a very Niche area uh and and that's cool as well I am a a dog lover and uh we we have two uh we have Miss Daisy and and bad boy Dudley and they are Miniature dochin and I I'll just say this um it'll get me fired up in my backyard with with two little dogs Miss Daisy does everything perfectly but the bad boy uh when I'm when I'm relaxing in my backyard next to the lounge chair and I smell urine it's because bad boy Dudley decided to lift his leg he's this pig not in the grass but on the lawn chair leg so to the person that talked about you know the smell um it it hit it hit with me with with that the neighborhood showed up to this public meeting so thank you for for showing up because your public testimony is is impactful you know I know at least for me a neighbor mentioned her comment was this is horrendous to live next to another one's called it their retirement home I found the residents to be very nice reasonable people talked about the smell a little bit and someone mentioned they can't care for the dogs they have today why would you want more I've never been out to this site but for the business that they do I I would say the dogs are probably exceptionally well taken care of um especially at the price tag I'm sure what these dogs go for um a neighbor mentioned the noise the smell pushing you off of your porch so there's a lot about this that has been wrong um from not getting permits and not uh following the current rules and then I feel like we're asked to actually endorse and support bad behavior which I can never support and endorse so I'll make a motion at this time to deny the appeal by the applicant and uphold the development review committee's condition limiting the number of canines to a maximum of 30 and um if you all want in the if I can get a second or and if you want me to put a timeline of when they need to comply with the 30 dogs I can do that well or maybe after I get if if I get a second and we're ready to vote on it we can talk about that timeline to get it to the number it's supposed to be thank you chairman thank you we have a motion on the floor to uh uh deny um actually just to uphold uh the development review committee's um and stick with the 30 limit that was by Troy Kent the second is by uh councilman Robbins okay my name was for I had questions they were answered is there any more um discussion on the the motion yes okay sorry Mr no that's all right councilman Santiago I think you know as the motion before goes for a vote I think Troy I think it's it's important probably to put a timeline if because if the motion passes I don't know what happens um for the applicant in what direction staff gets I think it's I agree with you and and staff you know no fault to Clay Irving because you've heard me call him the best in the business but no fault to him but he didn't have a an answer that I thought was acceptable we're going to work with them I mean what what does that mean so you know to the seconder because I need his support on this where are you more comfortable with I was I was going to say 30 days but I could maybe go a little longer 60 I would say 90 uh Mr Kent I'll tell you why these we have uh we don't know what law enforcement agencies are depending on this we don't know their integral business and these are not something they can just get rid of I could do 90 I'm okay I I'll add I'll add 90 to my motion the seconder is okay with that he's okay with it okay so the motion is uh uphold a 30 dog limit they have 90 days to reduce the number of dogs and you with the 30 dogs you have nothing in your motion about noise AB batment correct okay um when we started this I was I was leaning towards probably where we ended up last time uh with 75 dogs uh noise abatement and onee review I I think there are some issues with the owner and the Lei the owner I think is the one that had the permit problems and did things that he shouldn't have done um but that's really right now that's regardless of the point what we have is a a tremendous noise problem in the in the neighborhood I would like to find a way that the business can survive and the neighbors can survive I'm just not sure it's it's there so even with the 30 dog limit I it would be nice if we had some requirement for noise abatement but that is not in the current motion so uh councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair discussion you know throughout this I've been on both sides um my decision on where I was going to fall um and I think ultimately I'll probably land on the side of going with the motion and it's unfortunate for the business owner and uh I think you know you this is just my opinion you have Council maybe you ought to shift that Council looking at that property owner what he sold you but that's just my opinion okay thank you uh any other comments from staff okay clay or the applicant any final comments all right Carissa uh would you call the role and this is the motion is to uh uh uphold the development R reviews committee condition that the number of kin house on the site cannot exceed 30 um with a 90day limit to uh reduce the number of dogs to that number that's what we're voting on Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Brower yes okay thank you it's 1146 you don't think done item seven will be quick pardon me seven will be quick are there people here okay A J right the capital Improvement okay no I'm just saying knowing these guys okay Council what is your pardon me what is your uh what is your desire to knock out item seven um before we take a break or take a break at 11:47 all right let's do item seven because there's no food here all right I'm going to hold you to that let's see how quick it is this is uh ordinance 2025-the schedule of Capital Improvements for concurrency good morning CLA and growth and Resource Management this is mandated by the state's Community planning act it is the basis of our uh concurrency management system it establishes those minimum levels of service it is consistent with the adopted Capital Improvement program if there's any questions I'll be glad to answer them you right that is is a concurrent I don't think he took long enough um move to approve Mr chair okay we have a motion to approve um by councilman Santiago and a a second by Vice chair Reinhardt any comment all in favor say I I I any opposed and that carries six to zero we'll get Mr Kent's vote when he comes in um eight should be quick also um let's do item eight or ordinance 2025-the so half hour 45 minutes okay half hour okay sorry go ahead uh good morning Morgan Swank assistant County attorney uh I will try to be quick um during the 20 uh 24 uh legislative session the Florida legislature adopted uh HB 1365 creating a new section 125.0 231 Florida statute which as of October 1st of last year prohibits counties and municipalities from authorizing or otherwise allowing any person to regularly engage in public camping or sleeping on any public property including but not limited to any public building or its grounds or any public RightWay under the jurisdiction of the county in order to enforce the statutory prohibition against unauthorized camping on public property the proposed ordinance amends the county code to comply with the statute it establishes a tiered penalty system um for violations and creates a uniform notification process for County residents and businesses to report instances of alleged public camping um ordinance uh 202-7788 D1 uh related to use of County rights of way both sections Define public camping or sleeping as it is set forth in the statute which is lodging or residing overnight in a temporary outdoor habitation used as a dwelling or living space this is with or without uh the use of a tent and or bedding uh the term does not include lodging overnight in a motor vehicle parked legally or camping for recreational purposes uh on designated property the prohibition of C public camping does not apply during a declared state of emergency or on property the county has specifically designated for public camping under the statute any individuals found camping or sleeping on County property without authorization will be asked to leave by code enforcement or law enforcement other penalties for violations include escalating fines and trespass warnings beginning January 1st of this year the statute authorized residents of the county owners of businesses located within the county and the attorney general to file a complaint against the county for allowing public camping under Section 78-1 the county manager will designate an email address or other electronic submission uh method to receive written notices for County residents and businesses uh written submissions must include information that is sufficient for the county to take reasonable action to cure the alleged violations including location date and description of the instance of public camping um there were some common miscon inceptions we wanted to make sure we address as well uh in June of last year in city of Grants Pass Oregon versus Johnson uh the Supreme Court found counties and cities May enforce general public camping bans including against involuntarily unhoused individuals without providing alternative Sheltering options without violating the eth amendment while a County May designate property for public camping there is no requirement to identify and designate a property uh for public camping or sleeping this is supported not only by Grants Pass in the current ruling um but also the Florida Department of Children and Families uh which will be certifying properties if the county does choose to designate um their office of homelessness uh frequently asked questions on their website says it is not a requirement there is no immediate civil liability for County alleging allegedly allowing public camping under the statute the county has five business days after receiving written notice of an alleged violation to take all reasonable actions within the limits of its governmental Authority prior to a civil action being brought this is why we've included a notice uh provision within the ordinance um ordinance 2025-the homelessness but to seek compliance of the ordinance and state law while providing services and assistance there are any questions available any questions got a question go ahead yeah I want I want to know how this affects during regarding the sleeping part and how this affects during our night meetings how would this affect John Nicholson would you be in violation I want to make sure we can make an exception in the county counc is not continuing overnight so once the meeting's over it should be okay good Mr chair uh I thank Miss SN for putting this together we've been um this is not intended to go any further than the state law there's nothing controversial intended with this we've been following what some other Counties have been doing as of late some of them been in the news have been doing something like this it allows us if we do get a complaint um a code provision we could point to to implement to enforce the state law that fair statement yes thank thank you um yeah I I think this is necessary to to um protect people that come downtown businesses um I'm just curious though when if there's a if there's a um I forget your description unintentionally um housed person on a sleeping on a bench or in a park they just moved along or what happens to them by law enforcement um initially we do have the the um there is within the ordinance the ability to ask them to move uh initially um there are also other services that are provided through the county that that could be offered um and then the the fines and the trespass warnings those would be um escalations that we would have um as tools if we needed them but they are not the the initial response okay that's great so they're they're given the opportunity to go to the bridge first step or whatever other services are available yes all right thank you councilman Santiago move to approve chair have a motion to approve as is by David Santiago and the second comes from Vice chair Reinhardt any other questions debate all in favor say I I any opposed and that motion carries 7 to zero and real quick I need to go back to seven tro I think you were out of the room on that Vote or were you here and voted you were here so it is it was a 7 to zero a yes for me yes okay and um item nine is removed from the agenda there I am informed that there is uh no uh reason to take a dinner break until about 1220 because there is no dinner um yet so okay let's see if we can knock out item 10 [Music] um which is uh alcohol drug and mental health funding requests to leverage 15.5 million in state funding right good morning Carmen Hall community Assistance director um this agenda item is the matching funds um for our alcohol drug and mental health program it is a 25% match that enables us to draw down an additional 15.5 million from the state we do have a presentation if you would like for us to go through the presentation if not I can take any questions Council care to see the presentation this is uh similar to last year is just the uh the funding requested procedure correct correct I don't need to see it I've seen the background I don't need to see it but I have a question okay go ahead uh for questions uh Vice chair Reinhardt thank you um I was reading through this and first off Mr and Mrs mentoring phenomenal program great program I've had time since last year to do a little more research on yours so I commend you I just had a quick question and it doesn't really explain it um there was a slight increase in this year's ask as opposed to last year everybody else was either equal to or less um can he expand on that or and I'm sure there's a legitimate reason but I think for you know if anybody reads this they say well what you know there was an increase in that as to why just full transparency no worries I appreciate it good yes my name is Derek Collins CEO of Mr Mis mentoring um to be honest I I've I I should have asked for more even than last time but um like I said the first time that we came up for this you guys um suggested that I did some more outside funding which we were doing um and I explained to the type of in kind stuff that we did get um so the following year we did way more than that and we we surpassed um some additional funding that we got from you guys as far as to to equal out that match um but we also lost 100 100,000 over spending which means we provided the services but we didn't get paid that $100 and for a small program like us we technically can't really afford that um so we had to make some some changes to make sure that we can kind of continue the program because I feel like it's too much of a a need for us to just kind of like pass on I figured it was along those lines but I appreciate the the explanation thank you very much well and like I said I'm going to make it work regardless but I did we need everything we can get fair enough thank you no problem councilman Robbins or uh Santiago did you make a motion to approve no yet okay second Johansson okay we have a motion to uh uh approve the expenditure by councilman Santiago and the second is by councilman Johansson um any other questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed and that is approved um 7 to zero thank you thank you all for coming in and um that takes us to uh item 11 appointments to the echo Advisory Board Carissa green you have appointments to the echo board next um this agenda item does have currently two vacancies with the chair and Mr dimsey and um the whole board is up for reappointment of March 31st so I figured I'd just go ahead and reappoint the whole board because we do have a number of boards upcoming with March 31st term expirations and and um but Mr chair and Mr dimsey if you do want to appoint someone just be cognizant that you would need to you can appoint the individual to be from now until um I think 2027 if I did the math correct okay I'm not going to make an appointment on for that temporary time I think the echo board has already received all the uh proposals and they're going through them I'm I'm not I think it would be a little unfair for somebody to step in right now but um so I'll wait until um until March uh don Dempsey yeah I'll pick uh Gerald feaser fizer for the temporary appointment the temporary and to 2027 if you want to do that both second that was a motion right yes yes uh councilman Dempsey nominates Gerald feaser from uh immediately and through uh the next cycle um any question there's three people on the board do you want to talk about Gerald or okay um not about Gerald but I I just had a question because I got a comment I got a message from my appointment Dwight Selby who said he would not be seeking to be re reappointed so is now not the time for District 4 to put someone up no it is it is we let's get we're I'm just getting rid of the temporary app and and he's combined his temporary with longterm so we're killing two birds with one stone there um all in favor of approving Gerald feaser say I I any opposed and Gerald is appointed to Echo okay now for other appointments uh councilman Robins I'd like to make a motion to reappoint J Gerard I'm sorry Pendergast and he's the incumbent for uh both the temporary and uh for the next cycle second Johanson okay we have a nomination of Gerard Pendergrass um he's currently serving so he would just continue on through the 2025 cycle um second was by Jake Johansson any questions on on Gerard all in favor say I I any opposed that motion that nomination has accepted 7 to zero okay uh Vice chair Reinhardt I'd like to appoint Patricia Drago she's an incumbent so she will continue through the next cycle as well okay okay um any questions about Patricia any second any seconds second Johansson thanks D Johansson second Patricia Dro all in favor say I I I any opposed she is approved s to zero uh councilman Kent thank you chairman yeah for the next cycle um Dwight Selby reached out and said that he was no longer going to serve and I certainly appreciate his time for the past two years um I did I did have a conversation with my neighbor who lives directly across the street Doug pet it and Doug is interested in serving on this I think Doug would be a good voice on the echo board so I'm going to put uh Douglas petted up for the District 4 uh position okay does he already have the uh I'm assuming the Clean Hands check has gone through because she's got his name on here or something yes and I would like to let you know Mr Kent that um Mr Selby would finish out his term until March 31st and then that's when Mr petett would take unless you otherwise wanted something no let Selby finish his term okay uh any questions about Doug pedet we need a second second and he is seconded by Don Dempsey all in favor say I I I any opposed and he is approved 7 to zero uh Jake Johansson I'd like to nominate um both my incumbents Reggie seni and John mauso uh to continue through March of 2027 second okay Reggie San Tilly and um where's your other one John mauso right below Ito right under Reggie and that second was by tooy Kent can I can I ask a question sure that's the at large SE right so I got to go back to it yeah at large gets to what with the other uh applicants I'm looking for it I can't see it here for some reason could be anybody one East one West oh it could pick any oh okay that's why because it wasn't a separate section for that okay y y okay all in favor of uh uh Reggie s Tilly and John Macaluso say I I any opposed they are approved 7 to zero and uh councilman Santiago do you have a nomination keep uh reappoint uh Patricia northy second and the nomination is uh Patricia Nory second was by Troy Kent and um all in favor say I I I any opposed and she is confirmed 7 to zero and I am going to defer to the next meeting and that takes us to the last item um item 12 uh appointments to the valua forever Advisory Board correct so the same thing these terms are up March 31st of 2025 so I'm looking for each of you to appoint someone with the chair and the atlarge member appointing their east and west side nominations okay uh David Santiago move to reappoint Mr Julio David salsa second David Sosa is Santiago's appoint appointment seconded by Troy Kent all in favor say I I I and he opposed okay he has confirmed unanimously and that takes us to Vice chair Reinhardt you may not know this one uh Jessica gal I'd like to reappoint and continue on how knowledgeable is she on the issues very was she willing second thank second on Jessica gal is by Troy Kent all in favor say I I any opposed any opposed think she's confirmed 7 to zero all right uh councilman Johansson yes sir I'd like to uh renominate Wanda bondam uh west side and John maloa East Side through 2027 second van and who was your second John mauso he's serving on two huh Y and the second was by Troy Kent Mr Johansson I don't see where Miss Wanda vanam has reapplied at this moment okay uh I'll withhold that one then how about that I'll double check with her and if she bails we'll pick somebody else I'm still good with the second so you just want to go with the the one today I last yes just one sir okay all right all in favor say I I any opposed and we'll come back to you next meeting for the uh your other appointment um councilman Troy Camp thank you chairman and um Council I'll reappoint my incumbent on on this um committee Suzanne Shyer second Johansson councilman Kent appoints us uh reappoints Suzanne Shyer second was by Jake Johansson all in favor of Mrs Shyer say I I any opposed and she is reappointed 7 to zero and councilman Robbins is it one appointment chair or two it's one appointment except for at large and chair both of which get two uh John C gamble please second John C Gamble and this by is nominated by councilman Robbins and a second is made by councilman Kent all in favor say I I any opposed and that carries 7 to0 and um I will nominate uh Kelly frasa for the uh west side and um uh Derek lontine for the East Side second Kelly frasa and La montin second by Troy Kent all in favor say I I discussion on that one sir please okay y sorry I didn't y That's fine they all they all went through pretty quick except um uh as a as a citizen of Port Orange uh Mr lontine ran for uh mayor against Mr sner and there were some questions as to his um not his legal residence but where he lives and and I would like to have that discussion I know he he uh resides up in Gainesville works up in Gainsville U but maintains a a a legal address down here and not not that I don't want them to be on the committee but I wanted to have that discussion between us to make sure that that's the kind of person we want him forever not to say he's not passionate he's very passionate um but to uh make sure that's the intent of who we want on the forever committee um so I just bring it up for discussion to see if we want to talk through that or just let it go because he has a uh his voting addresses here in in Port Orange I would imagine yeah to to my knowledge he holds IL legal residence here in Port Orange he does work go to school and maybe has an apartment or something in in Gainesville is there any legal requirements that he's not not meeting I'm looking up the uh resolution now but I believe either it's either probably has to be a resident of Lucha County it could be Lector in there so if he's registered to vote here and and if he's a resident of the county then he would qualify I I don't know what his status is we did as a pursuant to resolution 2009 101 we did run a good standing check which includes verifying with the supervisor of elections if he is a registered voter and he is is a registered voter um in District 3 incorporated city of Port Orange so the so the resolution is for an elector so they confirmed he okay okay okay that's all I had that answered your question okay thank you um then we need to vote on Kelly uh frasa and Derek lontine all in favor say I I any opposed and they are both approved un iously and that leaves uh you took care of yours Don Dempsey no I think I oh no you didn't that was the pre that was Echo okay Gerald feaser second Gerald Feer is nominated by Don Dempsey for valua forever second by Troy Kent any discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and he is confirmed 72 to Z so and I think I smell food did you go back there uh I just arrived yes okay so so uh why don't we take a break here we'll come back for a public participation and closing comments Mr Dy has asked a question about his appointment and if you could just give me a couple of moments where I can address it when we come back um I don't believe Mr fizer can't serve on Brad just told me he will resign so it won't pause a cause Okay okay then uh 12:14 we will be back at 12:45 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e start with the uh uh public participation there are two requests to speak um first is uh Jessica gal good afternoon now for the record Jessica gal cop call off firm one Daytona Boulevard Daytona Beach Florida I will be brief um you received a letter from our office late last week um asking if the council would consider a motion for reconsideration of the denial of the overall development plan for 4552 Misty Morgan Road um that was heard at this last council meeting I do believe that this Council considers um the evidence in front of it when making decisions and I I also believe that all of you would be willing to look at additional information if you think that that would make a difference um since that time we have found that the date of construction shown in the public records for this structure is incorrect um it is shown in the property of appraiser as 1996 and as a followup to that meeting and discussion we confirmed with FPL that they have a record of turning power on pursuant to a certificate of occupancy in 1985 so I know that records are hard to track down over that time frame um it is difficult to keep track especially in the um world where they're converted into microfilm and not kind of organized and so I would really request that we take the time to reconsider that review um if we are not certain that this property did not go through the proper process and that these individuals who have come to the table with Clean Hands and have done everything they can um we're not certain that they didn't do it the right way and they're willing to do it now um before a decision is made that will irrevocably impact their lives um and the lives of my new favorite client who has been very vocal during agenda items today and just found the public comment cards um I'd ask that you reconsider also attached to that letter was a declaration that would be a voluntary measure by the property owner to restrict it to say that if the house is destroyed it can't be rebuilt until it meets the minimum acreage of the zoning classification um so I know I only have 3 minutes that request is out there um I'd really request that you take the opportunity to to make sure that we do this right um I think that the property owner also has a form and will speak as well thank you and H Brian Vanderpool you're the owner y okay we sorry I'm going to get a motional but um we we bought the house and uh we didn't know of course that the the situation we were in but um since then you know we were there about a week code enforcement showed up said that we weren't supposed to be there week after that we found out she was pregnant um and it's just been hell ever since um it's just been uh you know we can't call it home we can't um we can't uh you know the the baby's had a bath in the in the sink for the last year because we're not going to put a tub in we can't make improvements on the home it's um it's just been really tough and uh I again we're just coming up here today to meet you guys and um just to just to you know so you can put a face to the name and um you know I have spoke with um FPL a couple times in the last few days and trying to get them they do acknowledge that power was put there April 10th of uh 85 um they did say that they received a a certificate of occupancy from the county now getting them to send me an email stating that um they I haven't been able to to have them do that but I've had two of those people in that office that they do show that they that that was received and and but they don't have any proof of it um hopefully that can come to surface or or some hopefully there's some way out of this mess um CU like right now we don't know how to proceed we don't know you know if um we just are uncertain about our future so hopefully we can sort something out you know and um and you know make this go away so that's that's pretty much all I had to say thank you guys for listening thank you uh to the legal staff or whoever wants to deal with this uh Jessica gal has these are closing comments the the council doesn't have to act on this at all um if I'd like to ask the staff if they do the request is a motion to reconsider um what would the next step be Paul Sor senior assistant County attorneys um if you reconsider so uh one of you has it has to be the initial motion needs to be done by someone on the prevailing side um that's all of you it was a 70 um so after that your options you have two options um you can bring it back before you and and then have the you know hear the entire thing again um or optionally you can remand it back to DRC for you know additional finding so those are your two options should you reconsider the matter it doesn't have to go back to you but you can you can remand it back with to DRC and say hey do additional research take into account this is addition additional evidence if it shows some you know uh a CO or some kind of vested right or some other aspect make your determination um and then that gives you know the applicant the opportunity you know if they dislike drc's finding to appeal and come back before you again that would be you know I think my advice to you that if if you were inclined to reconsider send it to your DRC uh which was the original body that heard that and so then if the property owner believes they have information they can share rather than send it directly back to you it may not come back to you it may be resolved or not I don't know but you're not obligated to um Grant the motion to reconsider either that's correct you can make both motions today pardon me you can make both motions today if you so choose you can make the motion reconsider and then the motion to remand um or motion to set another council meeting to hear the matter again okay councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman I move that we motion we re considerer the request and send it to DRC as a first step Second Joe Hansen okay so we do have a motion on the table to uh reconsider and remand it back to DRC um and uh Jake Johansson you made the second I did thank you okay any questions comment Jake Johansson yeah a quick comment um for the record and if this passes and goes back to DRC uh I I think um I think the direction or or the I I guess the the yeah the direction would be for me to try let's try to get to yes on this um I I really would like to see um us find a way to to get them where they need to go so they can live there um um I there's a lot of obstacles in the way but let's try to find a way to make it work with staff and the DRC thank you thank you uh cman Robbins thank you chair just some additional requests I I need uh if we can uh when it goes back to rcer comes before us if we can just make sure we have the property tax records dating all the way back to see what what they've been charged uh or previous owners have been charged as far as I'm concerned if if we're charging property taxes uh and it's good enough for that uh that would weigh into my decision making as well and it it could be good enough for now thank you okay so we have the motion uh to reconsider and remand back to DRC uh by David Santiago by Jake Johansson any other uh comments all in favor say I I any opposed I and the one opposition was from Troy Kent motion passes uh 6 to1 all right it's the quickest legal argument you've ever made that takes us to the county manager's closing uh comments yes sir Mr chair uh honorable Council we have a few items today uh first up uh just a reminder that uh we'll be doing the uh uh upcoming um uh informational sessions for our Coastal resiliency uh uh strategies this was part of the state's sand program that we're enjoying the U money that uh we'll be putting back our Dune restoration system but part of that was to uh also have uh these informational sessions and Outreach so there'll be several meetings uh one February 25th from 5: to 7: at the Ocean Center room uh 103 at the Ocean Center Wednesday February 26 at the Daytona Beach Shores Community Center at 300 BME drive and February 27th at the ballroom of the Brandon Center down in new SMA Beach at 105 South Riverside Drive uh we also have uh the uh uh fuchia county is going to have their veteran standown again this year March 21st and the 22nd uh there'll be free lunch assistant with VA claims health and wellness screenings legal assistance employment resources housing support free haircuts clothing and food uh also can I add to that George my apologies but I also want to let Council know that part of the program this year that Scott Olen and Brad berbau are doing to help uh promote the veterans standown and offer even more services is uh providing sponsorship opportunities so they are just being made available they range from 500 to, 1500 $ with a level in between so if you know of any businesses or individuals who might have an interest in being a sponsor for the veterans standown later next month uh Scott Olen or Brad bbau uh would be able uh to assist and uh there's going to be some information going out on it but I know Council uh may have your own connections and I wanted to make that plug all right and on top of that uh of course we have our upcoming uh state of the county address at be febru Tuesday February 25th at the Ocean Center uh and that'll be uh I'm sure a big highlight Affair as it always is and then lastly I just wanted to um a little bit of sadness uh just inform folks that uh former one of our former stalwarts here at the county Terry Sanders who I I had the pleasure of working with for over 30 years he was a uh uh 35e employe 35 year plus actually most of it with the sheriff's department he was a major but he also came on uh and one of these guys that couldn't retire he uh took on Evac when it was uh the foundation and he's the guy that actually brought it over and became the very first uh director of EMS and later on became the U deputy and then the the director of public protection so very well known in the community he and his wife uh Donna Sue did a lot with the community a lot with the speedway um just a very uh illustrious career and he passed away over the weekend so my condolences to the family and uh and his wife Donna Sue and the rest of the family so just a thought for them if you could and appreciate it thank you uh County attorney I have nothing at this time thank you okay then we will go to uh council members and Jake Johansson you are first today yes sir I'd like to um address Council and uh probably the attorneys um I I think I need a clarification of how we work the uh the consent agenda what it might just be semantics but we say we'd like to pull items A and B but once it's been pulled it's removed from the consent agenda correct is that is that how I understand it and once it's been removed it's no longer part of the consent agenda yeah so so then we have to vote on those even though it's pulled just for comment so I I believe um I believe the correct or the the the least confusing way to do it would be to ask for comments on the consent agenda and you comment on E and F um before we vote on the agenda um and and then vote on the consent agenda if we want to I believe if we want to pull something then it is removed from the consent agenda and it has to be voted separately the alternative would be to pull for comment and if the comment elicits a change of of thought process on that which sometimes happens uh then then we have the option of voting on those um but I'm afraid that if we pull it for comment and it's pulled and we and we just approve the consent agenda and never vote on those separately that it kind of leaves us hanging as to what what's going on with that item um I don't know what everybody else thinks whether it's clear for you all and not clear to me I don't know Mr chairman if I could respond uh yeah before you do it's doesn't sound like there's any legal obstacles either way that we go okay go ahead I was under the impression that when if we bring an item up for discussion it's still part of the original vote to pass all the items only the ones that we say we pull for a vote are removed from the general con uh consent agenda vote that's my impression I'm I'm I'm under the assumption that pull means it's no longer on if we if we're using the wrong terminology happen so everywhere else I've been um uh it's to comment on on the entire consent agend I'd like to com I I don't want to pull it but I want to con uh um comment on E FNG G got it nobody wants to pull motion second comments here's my e FNG G um um I could operate either way I think it's just a matter of clarity in the right choice of words at that time yeah I I just pull pull has that's what it means to me so uh I I'd like to make a motion to not pull for comment to just discuss okay I'm okay with that I'll second that if we want to vote on it okay not full not pull for comment and by Jake second by David Santiago so we only PLL for items that are wanted to be vot on voted on and then just an announcement made that um there will be a comment and you want that comment to be before the vote is that part of your after it doesn't matter to me it doesn't matter I it's okay yeah after okay so chairman if may I so the way I understand that is we're only going to pull something if we want to vote on it and then afterwards afterwards chairman you could say you know counsel would anybody like to comment on anything on the consent agenda perfect and then we if there's something we want to say about an item boom okay any other questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed so we will thank you that's all I have oh uh uh the East Central Florida Regional planning Council Diamond Awards uh are on um February 19th at the Lake Mary Event Center I will be going um I don't know if uh if uh our second representative will be attendant but I will be there are you nominated for a diamond award wrong guy no way but but our County did put in an application this year I I don't know if we got it yet it'll be a surprise if we uh if we do but that's it thank you okay uh councilman Kent thank you chairman I just want to publicly thank Daytona dog beach for keeping us up to date with how successful they have been um in the uh area of of Orman Beach where we've allowed them to um operate and have a dog friendly session on the beach and then secondly I just want to uh give a shout out to all those young adults that are are hardworking and trying to do the right thing and uh personally on on on um behalf of my wife and myself we just want to give a shout out to our son Wyatt keep crushing it that's all I have thank you VI chair Reinhardt thank you chair I've always been a firm believer in Praise in public and that philosophy we've done that you know in Corrections you never want to criticize someone in public it's a great way to hurt morale but that being said I want to thank Mr Bartlett um we had an issue with the b19 canal uh the granite apartment complex we got a notification from some of the citizens in Pelican Bay that they were dumping their debris um which is concerning here we are in the hot seat of trying to control flooding and one of the the key issues is the canal system and uh I'm very familiar with that apartment complex and as I expressed to you but those issues were handled and taken care of so I thank you very much Mr Bartlett um also to uh City Commissioner Dereck fer we had an issue um with some uh concerns that were voiced about some graffiti and things of that nature they've already addressed it before I even place a phone call so I thanks to the city of Daytona very much um also for uh Terry Sanders I had the pleasure of working with Terry as well so my condolences also to the family uh and donu and the rest of the Sanders family so they're in our thoughts and prayers and that's all I have thank you councilman Robbins councilman Santiago thank you I'm G to play the lottery now that I heard no um something different is happening here I might win but I do have one thing Mr chair I wanted to throw a concept out there to this Council um to see if there's a consensus for information and an an idea that many of may have heard of uh in the past um and I realize that it's not within our direct purview to U make a decision on and I wanted to throw the idea to see if we can get staff and I'll tell you why in a second to do some research it's going to be out of state research um to look at the effects of areas in our Union that may have eliminated property taxes and to look at if a consumption tax or other methodologies that may have been used in States the other 49 states to um replace property taxes with a different mechanism um I'm of the opinion that I think our property tax system is broken in Florida and again I realize it's not our decision however the the the conversation needs to start on various levels um there have been some in the legislature that have been brave enough to speak about it there too but um I think if we can spark dialogue interest conversation on a local level and get some of our colleagues in other counties to saying let's look at this um and we may not know the effects yet but um I'm basically I'm asking does the council be willing to support just information second third that's quick you need a third and fourth and and with that information maybe we make a decision to do nothing or we make a decision to Lobby the legislature um to consider alternative methods to our broken property tax system any a motion any time limit when the information would come back um George oh oh we got the attorney raising his hands he gets nervous no we have no interest in delaying anything so if if you could give us but it'll take some time yeah that that's yeah so we will follow we're not looking to delay anything so we'll get back to you as soon as we can that would be working with our office working with Finance how about this at the next council meeting let us know how long you think you'll you'll need okay to get the data together for us fair enough sure and then we decide then okay so we have a motion on the floor to we're giving uh legal staff giving all staff consensus for information uh on replacing the property tax with consumption tax or other alternatives Alternatives that the rest of the Union might have done um any other questions on that comment Don is silent all in favor say I I any opposed and the second did you get the second by Troy Kent re and the third project okay that's all Mr sherff thank you okay uh councilman Don Dempsey yeah I wasn't going to say anything but I like your idea David so if I was quiet I didn't mean to be no I have nothing yeah that's that's that's a great idea but no I have nothing thanks guys okay um I just have one one thing is should really just a reminder for the public on the special meeting February 11th at 400 p.m here in Chambers and I would just like to um ask um staff again we talked about this I guess it was yesterday on the phone just to get us the uh the item information as soon as possible so the public is aware what we're going to discuss and and each of us that that's sometimes a uh a contention that we haven't had time to um adequately consider what's put before us Mr chairman can I add to that if yes please um you're talking about the February 11th special meeting special meeting um if I may ask what process are we going to follow for that uh meeting um from a uh public comment or work product from us did we decide that yet well it's a special meeting uh so you can make decisions you'll be given uh you know we subject coures Li and also uh green storm water uh initiative so uh we'll be asking for direction uh coming out of that meeting so I think Cur currently correct me if I'm wrong but in a special meeting there's not a limitation to public participation it's not about that that comes into if you're going to make a decision if you're going to vote on something then you have to have public uh participation but you could choose not to if you don't make any decision on anything so but in essence what we would probably I'm going to guess what we'll probably be doing on the 11th is listening to the ideas the proposals and then sending back staff with maybe certain ideas to put it in ordinance format for us to vote is that accurate no okay no it's a little more than that go ahead there are three ordinances okay that are going on the special special meeting uh one of which you can take immediate action um the others you can you can vote but because it's a conference of plan amendment process requires transmittal to the state but these are three ordinances um which you can take you know you can take action after receiving public comments so there is action contemplated these are legislative in nature you don't have to take action you can say okay I want you to make these changes come back at another another meeting I was not aware that we had three ordinances coming so that that makes a big difference as far as public comment uh because the special meeting is constrained to those items there's no general public comment at the beginning there's no general public comment at the end but anyone can talk about those three items or related when those items are brought up that's helpful thank you chair yes okay Mr chair if I could only add for the council's uh anticipation because of the nature of these items and they've been both to your enra and your pdrc uh uh our staff presentations are a little more robust than what you see on a normal agenda so I just wanted to let you know that we are going to try to cover those as best we can I consider it a special land use hearing uh because to the nature of the items is green storm water and L is that already is there already some discussion on the NRA um page yes sir there's been formal recommendations by both enra and your planning and Land Development okay uh committee on Li um and so that's why it's before you in an ordinance format so the the public and each of of us could see see that can the public see that information yes the packet should be published shortly probably uh potentially as early as tomorrow okay Mr chairman another thing on that item for me I forgot to mention one thing I apologize Santiago um I just wanted Mr chairman for the council's benefit um I had a already a pre scheduled out of town meeting so I'm going to be attending unless there's objection by via Zoom uh to participate in that special meeting so just wanted to make sure you all aware okay thank you Mr chair I think the state laws still require that at that meeting we'll have to seek approval that he could participate meaning vote virtually okay yes for the special meeting oh yeah all right um that's all I have and it is 116 we just set a record um everybody have a good week have a good day know e