Good evening. Welcome to the uh holiday edition of the 2026 Valuchia County Charter Review Commission. Um appreciative of everybody being here. Mark Watts. I'm the chair of the of the commission. Pat Mory, the vice chair is sitting here with me. And um we'll start
off with a roll call. Madam Secretary, and I did that while you were talking to somebody else, so if I can get get the roll call. >> Sorry. I'm just going to let Miss Musey come in through the door, too. >> Uh, Mr. Watts, >> present.
>> Miss Nory, Miss Bright, >> Mr. Clayton, >> here. >> Mr. Ingram >> here, >> Mr. Johnson >> here, >> Miss Quiet, >> Mr. Lewis, Miss Misy, >> Mr. Parker >> here, >> Mr. Sakenovski
>> here, >> Miss Shriber here, >> Miss Wheeler >> here, >> Miss Walford. Thank you. >> Okay, we have almost everybody here this evening. It's great to see you all. Um we have um let me first off start by
thanking staff. They've done a a really good job of kind of taking everything that we worked on at the last meeting and and I think distilling it into a couple of uh good items for us to go through this evening. So um we've got a presentation um which we had talked about at the last meeting. So we've got
a presentation. Uh Mr. Sakinovski, I think uh the the message got out. We're going to keep presentations for, you know, 20 minutes or so at most. Um so, uh in any event, we'll have a a presentation by Lynn Typton um in a few minutes. And um and then we've got some
uh draft charter amendments that um have been included in your materials. Uh this is really kind of the staff's first take on taking everything we talked about at the last meeting and putting it into a text format for us to begin either saying, "Yep, we're good." or um let's talk about these in a little bit more
detail. So with that um we'll go ahead and get into our action items. We've got minutes behind your tab uh from the uh November 10th meeting. So is there any motion on the minutes? >> Make a motion to approve. >> A motion. Got a motion. Parker second
nor the first one I heard. Um any discussion on the minutes? Any changes? All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. Any opposed? All right, minutes are approved. So, getting into our general business for the evening. Um, as always,
we're going to start out with public participation. I've got four cards that have been submitted so far. Three of which I think are here. So, we'll put the last one kind of at the end. And, uh, kick off with number one. Vivian Lord, come on down. If you can just
state your name and your address for the record. >> Uh, sure. Vivian Lord, 89 Chrysanthemum Drive, Orman Beach. >> Okay, you have three minutes. >> Thanks. Um, I appreciate the opportunity to voice my opinions as a resident, homeowner, and voter of Felia County. Also greatly appreciate the investment
of time that you are putting this process, although I do question its value given the state's action in stripping away county home rule. I'll be brief. If I run out of time, I have my statements written and I'll just hand it over to your secretary. >> Thank you. Uh first I think that I have I have four areas that I think that the
charter should include in nice clear statements. The first one is culture in Felia County museum, theater festivals, artistic events. I think the charter should have clear statement of the values that our county's art and science venues support. We value museums that display all forms of science and art. We
value theaters that provide a variety of performances for our citizens to choose from. Stripping financial support from these areas should not be the authority of a few. I have an adjective. I'll leave it out. People and does not reflect the will of the residents. Environmental attractions
and necessities. Conservation. The charter should have a clear statement of the importance of conserving much of Felucia County for the next generation. People visit and want to move here because of the natural beauty of the county's natural areas. They do not visit to see acres of houses and pavement. Parks. The charter should have
concise statement describes different types of parks based on our growing population and changing diverse needs for outside part spaces. Climate change and sustainability. The charter should recognize that the changes in our climate and growing frequency of extreme weather events require incorporating
means of sustainability including low impact development, flood plane and mature tree maintenance and electric mass transportation and other public vehicles. Water management. The charter should include a plan that systematically defines and identifies flooded areas where priority given to prevent flooding. See the other areas
I've talked about and ensure pollution in waterways and springs is minimized. Education public school system. The charter should include a statement of the importance of quality and factualbased education for all children no matter their race, ethnic group or soio economic status. This statement
should support the importance of input from educators who are trained while allowing parents input for their own children's needs. Higher education. Valuchia County is fortunate to have Daytona State and Emery Riddle aeronomic universities. A statement of the
importance of support for higher education should be included. And last, home affordability treatment for all residents. The charter should include a description of the balance between affordable housing for all residents and conserving the natural land in our county, the variety of housing and mass
transer transportation to help residents navigate jobs and local stores should be discussed. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. You did an excellent job. >> All right. Uh, second speaker is Greg Gimber.
Again, if you just state your name and address for the record. >> Hey, good evening. Greg Gimbert, 255 Ullet Avenue, Daytona Beach, Florida. Before I start, can I ask a question? >> Is a city or county attorney present tonight? >> Yes.
>> Hi there. All right, I'm ready. >> Okay. >> Hey, good evening. My name's Greg. I'm from Daytona Beach. You may remember me from years back. Let Valuchia vote. I did a charter amendment petition drive. I'm going to do another one. I'm coming to talk to you tonight so you don't feel
disrespected about why I'm going to do something outside of your committee. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of you, including and especially Mr. Dyer there. The fact is what I'm going to work on is to ban potable reuse. Potable, drinkable, reuse sewage.
Drinkable sewage. I don't think so. So, the reason why I'm not asking you folks to do it is because you can't defend it once you adjurnn. And that's important. It's already going to be a hard fight once I ballot qualify or you
ballot qualify. But we've all seen and as Mr. Johnson knows, there's a lot of people snookered about this wasn't going to come here in our lifetime and it's not a threat. Y'all all seen as Deltona's getting ready to shoot their poopy water in the aquifer. It's not just coming, it's here. and Daytona won't be far behind if we let them. So,
my intention is to not have a big debate about the pros and cons of different alternative water supplies just to say you're not going to rush to the cheapest, dirtiest one out of convenience without a vote of the people. It's a big subject and by all rights, all of you people here were selected for
a reason because you got the community clout to push something through on the weight of your name alone. And that's exactly why I'm here tonight because what we are going to do is a big deal and you all should be the ones leading
it. But Mr. Dyer here is beholden to our county council and our I don't know how many of them are still snookered on. It's not going to come. It wasn't too many years ago we had people saying it's never going to be in our lifetime. They forget forbid the chairman from even talking about it. So, with all due
respect, I can't count on the county council mounting a vigorous defense and directing Mr. Dyer to do so when none of them stood up for it till now. So, again, I'm coming here showing you deference, respect. I would like to have
the benefit of your wisdom and to just get right to the point. I know you've also had people come here and ask you to do the complete opposite. We have a candidate out of the land that came and asked you to mandate, do we keep the poopy water option in the charter? And I'm sure she has good reasons in her
mind to do that. But for any of you folks here that said, "Oh my god, no." Hopefully all of you, I want to invite you to please join the rest of your neighbors. Do your job here and do the part that's not done. Lend your names to
my charter amendment petition as bringers of the petition exactly as I did with Let Valuchia Vote. And some of you may not have been around, but I had the most diverse collection of a cast of characters across Valuchia County from Cynthia Slater at the NAACP to Keith Wilson, the president of the Florida Tea
Party and a lot of people in between. And the people who did that went on to do great things. City commissioner, county chair, hell, I'm still bothering you. But we need more horsepower than me because the state's getting ready to preempt this. M 10 more seconds. The state's getting ready to preempt this. So I can't collect my petitions in 2026,
file an injunction to hold till 2028. I need to get them now. need to ballot qualify now. So, I want each of you to soul search, look in the mirror and say, "Greg, put my name on the bottom of petition and then lean in and help me." Thank you very much. >> All right, Mr. Gimber, thank you very much. >> Any questions before I go?
>> Uh, this isn't a Q&A period. >> Maybe you the boss. >> Well, we've got an opportunity to talk about it as part of the discussion moving forward. >> Thank you. >> Okay, next speaker is I think it's Matt
Mason. I get that right. Go. >> Good evening. I'm a resident of Orman Beach and I come to speak to you on a matter that adds to your workload rather than detracts from it. Uh you you folks have the definition of a thankless job.
Let's face it, you've got folks yammering at you on a whole variety of issues. I've got a big one, right, that I think is worth your while and consideration in the establishment of a subcommittee is it's a dangerous word, but a
subcommittee uh of this commission to determine a citizens bill of rights and and and within that citizens bill of rights would be it would enshrine many of the protections that are already
existing in the county charter. However, they would they'd follow the form perhaps, right, of other of other counties that have similar citizens bills of rights, right, including access to government, truth in government, public records, right to be heard, right
to notice, right to right to decisions, uh, right to county administrators report, right to budget process, it goes on. All right. equitable transa taxation. All of these things are within are subject to and within the Florida the applicable Florida statute. So none
of them would violate Florida statutes. But moreover, here in we have some other issues. We have some persistent issues that should be similarly enshrined in a citizens bill of rights or in a preamble. I don't
care how you do it. You guys you guys run the car. you fix how it's supposed to work. But the idea would be that we have persistent problems. You've heard about some of them, but you and you know of all of them, but there are persistent
problems. Water, flood protection. Water does not respect the boundaries of any particular city. I've been at a number of meetings where mayors complain, but the water comes in from another city. The county should have an oversight
regarding that. The county should have an oversight regarding any infrastructure changes that impact another municipality or any municipality. The county the county should obviously be focused on public safety, emergency services, library services, transportation, everything
that you've heard about, right, and that you know about. But fundamentally, I believe that by enshrining these in a citizens bill of rights and or a preamble that it recognizes the pressing issues that will not go away, the
pressing issues that cannot be mitigated, the pressing issues that are that are persistent in Paluja County that you'd be doing a service and I suggest a subcommittee, right, to study the feasibility issues and practicality
of putting such a such a thing on ballot because it would increase public confidence in this commission. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you very much for being here this evening. Thanks for your comments and u timely Katherine Pentech,
our final speaker. >> Hi. I just want to reiterate um as far as a charter amendment proposal for the county council in reference to disposal of any conservation lands. I would like it to be um by charter amendment via the
public voter referendum and not a uh supermajority of the council. In reference that, I want to add something to do that. I have a couple
written out, but I want to add a blue green infrastructure and climate critical systems to where we protect our wetlands and forests. So, if I can submit these up to you if that's okay. >> Okay.
Okay. Did you have any other comments or you want to talk about what you're handing out? >> No, I'll just let you read it. You can do it. I mean, it's it's really long. It's going to be longer than three minutes. So, >> Okay. if you would just consider that because I think there is there a proposal for a ballot measure or is it
just for um >> a super majority of the council? >> We'll be getting into it when we get Mr. Dyer's report here in a few minutes. >> Okay. All right. I think we need to protect it. The voters had voted it in. So, we should it should only be able to be removed by voters and not by the
council. >> Okay. And I got copies of your materials. We'll make sure they're distributed to the full board or full commission. >> All right. Anybody else that didn't fill out a speaker card that would like to add anything? All right, seeing none, we'll move
along. Council Chair, can you open up your mic, please? >> Yeah, I just realized that. Um, all right. So, anyway, thank you, Mr. Parker. You uh after the last meeting, you went out and and helped us find a a speaker um for this evening to talk
about government structure. I think we had a number of comments and suggestions that came up during our prior discussions about, you know, kind of the general options when it comes to the structure of government. So, um, I'm going to welcome Miss Lynn Tipton, uh, to the microphone and, uh, thank you for
being here. Appreciate your willingness to come out and and, uh, kind of on on relatively short notice, uh, give us a little bit of an overview of your experience and and, uh, some some thoughts on potential government structure. So, >> thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. Very nice to
be with you tonight. If I just click, will it go to the PowerPoint? Okay, perfect. I didn't ask you that before, and I apologize. I did put a couple of slides together and the reason Mr. Parker asked me is that he and I have had the pleasure of working together for
decades and I am now retired but have kept a hand in with both the Florida City and County Management Association, long name FCCMA and the Florida League of Cities. And obviously both county and city charters come into that. And a part
of my work at the Florida League of Cities in their educational programs was traveling amongst many of the cities to help charter review committees during my almost 35 years at the league. I [clears throat] live in Mount Dora, so
I'm very close by. I have family here in Daytona Beach. My dad, Howard Tipton, was the longtime Daytona Beach city manager. Uh that knows some of you. And so I asked him to come tonight just cuz he doesn't get to see me do this very often. My sister Jennifer is here as well and we're going to go get dinner
after we're done tonight. So just just had to throw that part in. for the material that you're looking at. Just in terms of general background, there is a model city charter and a model county charter that the National Civic League started putting together in the late
1800s for the municipal part, the 1900s for counties. You need to know that this group was started by Teddy Roosevelt when he was trying to take apart Tamonn Hall in New York as a police commissioner. In recognizing that so many good things
can go into a charter for a framework, he dedicated a few years of his own time in forming this group to then nationally work on models. We are in the ninth edition now of the model charter and some of the material I'm sharing with
you tonight is from that. The rest of it just Florida specific data that I've collected in part of the process. [clears throat] All right. Obviously, you know, counties these this is more just background. I knew that other people would be looking at the material
in addition to you. But when you all got appointed, I know the county attorney and others would have talked with you about the establishment of counties in Florida, how they're defined when we made the change from Dylan's rule to home rule. And yes, some of your
speakers mentioned the legislaturator's current work in trying to pull back on home rule, but constitutionally it is still in place, particularly when it comes to the ability of a county to write a charter. So, a lot of these ideas first came about in the 40s and
the 50s experimentally and very academically. Maryland and Virginia were some of the first to really embrace the notion of a commission manager or council manager form like you have and that's where a lot of Florida's early experiences were pulled from were both
Maryland and Virginia. So statistically I wanted to set this up as well in terms of looking at the counties as you know the m 25 out of the 67 are very small as a result when you look for peers I
know that you can look around the state as a map but I think geographically population and in terms of your scope of services manatee Sarasota Breard and Lee are coastal with an established inner develop
county. They are similar to you, very much in the scope of services, population, you've got some variety, but this is Florida. And of these three that are the ones with county charters, Sarasota, Brevard, and Lee, you've got probably the ability to almost go page
by page comp uh comparably and find real similarities. Now, Lee has quite a bit larger a population in the last decade, but their history has been very similar in development to Valuchia. Bvard obviously one county south, but
they have not been a charter county as long as you have been. Yours is the very first Florida ever experienced. And as you know, it put in a number of things that no other county still has yet to do. For example, changing the name from a county commission to a county council.
You're still the only one. So for the forms where I want to spend the bulk of the time, when you think about whether you call it council manager or commission manager, it's 45 out of the 67. It's pretty statistically secure. There are two that
are elected executive, Miami Dade and Orange. Miami Dade's charter, as you know, is completely housed in the Florida Constitution. Oranges was voter approved. Okay. Miami Dade to amend theirs is a dual referenda in the sense that it is voted on by the
whole state of Florida as well as all the voters within Miami Dade. So, you really don't want to compare yourself ever to Miami Dade because it is such a one-off and an anomaly. When you look at the smallest of the Florida counties, there is no form.
Anything administrative is handled within the clerk of the court. These are mostly the counties that are 20,000 in population and less are very small rural counties. There is no manager. Some of them will name a position called a county coordinator. There's also a
position in Florida called a county supervisor. However, it is not a manager. It is someone who goes between the county commission, the five constitutional officers, and the department heads in a coordinating role. And that's all the position is. So
you're really if you focus on the 45, they have a form similar to yours. That is the bulk of Florida's counties. The two elected executives will spend a little time on that as well. That's the other difference. I did go ahead and list all the counties
with the charter just so you had it handy. And again, I'm aware that others are going to review these materials and I wanted the list to be there. You're going to notice Duval is not listed with them because Duval is part of the city of Jacksonville's charter in writing even though everybody just says Jax
Duval for short. Oops. Where did it go? All right. Because of the history with the commission manager form, the best thing is the second bullet. what they wanted to do in the late 1890s into the early
1900s when this was being experimented with uh the notion was to replicate a corporation's role with their CEO and try to put that into the public sector so that the
elected body would have a trained professional to administer the government on a day-to-day basis leaving the council or the commission free to be representative and legislative and to also then have oversight but not have to dwell and
spend time on the day-to-day operations. This was quite a shift from past history where all of the department heads would simply line up at each meeting and respond to all of the county commission questions. Much more day-to-day involvement. As government grew more
complex, particularly in the area of utilities, this was viewed as a real advancement to bring professional management in. So your voters, stockholders pick a board of directors commission who then hire a CEO manager
and that's the model. It is the most prevalent. We don't use the word popular. It's the most prevalent of the 18,000 municipalities in the US and of the 5,400 counties in states where the county gets to choose a form of
government. Obviously, there are states where constitutionally that does not occur. Since World War II, it has been the the absolute trend in selecting it in large part because of the complexity and because whether it's a county commission
or a city council, the nature of not being truly full-time or having a depth of background in the minutia of running a government, the professional manager can come and step in, hire professionals for the various department positions and
make recommendations. ations to a council or commission in in step the hallmarks of the form is that the commission in hiring the manager picks hang on I'm going to go back picks the professional who then prepares the
budget all agenda material hires and fires all staff and makes recommendations with all of the agenda material to the council or commission. Those hallmarks can get varied as you look at the different individual county
charters. Uh there are always exceptions to the rule, but these are considered the hallmarks of the form. And really from the early 1900s forward, it's also what's been endorsed by the National Civic League in their model for both counties and municipalities. In large
part again because of the complexity of government and the need for experience that will transcend the turnover and of terms in office amongst the elected officials. All right. The elected executive form obviously very similar to what is known
in the municipal world as a strong mayor means that the charter defines an elected executive role. In most cases at the municipal level this person does not vote legislatively. However, for Florida, uh, Orange County, for example,
their elected executive does vote with the county commission in their case. Miami Dade, they didn't like the word chair either. They also went with mayor. Theirs is slightly different, but nonetheless, it's someone who is going
to be the elected executive or chief administrative officer for the county, the person who is responsible for the budget. Sometimes they are tasked with attending county commission meetings especially if they vote. However, when they don't vote then they are there to
be administrative either through their own uh individual self or they have a CEO often a chief administrative officer that works for them and then that person attends the meetings to take direction from the commission.
It is not that common. Not in Florida. It is when you look at the news and see headlines, many people assume that it is more common that it is, but I want to make sure statistically that it's understood. This is not Broward's form.
Broward is commission manager. However, they refer to their chair as a mayor. Monroe County also calls their chair a mayor, but they are commission manager. So, it can get very confusing if the only thing you've seen is a newspaper
article to know the actual forms. the commission manager variations. And I wanted to spend a couple of minutes here. How do you then select your chair in a four-year term? The most common in charters in Florida is to rotate or
elect from within the council. Directly electing the chair is not as common. However, if you want to talk about the pros and cons, it gives you the same individual for the length of the term. On the other hand, it has been traditional within the commission
manager form of government to share leadership, which is why rotation or annual election is what is endorsed by both the models for the municipal and the county government. Now, larger cities, larger counties look to have
that same figure head in place year after year. That's what gets weighed against shared leadership. If all five know that at some point on a commission, for example, they're going to have the chance to lead, then that is that shared
leadership model. You'll have a year, you might be vice chair even a year, and when crises arise, vice chairs often have to take over, but the training ground for it traditionally has been that you spent that time getting ready
for your year as chair. So, just some food for thought. Directly electing for cities in particular, which is where I spent the bulk of my time. The issue that used to arise was if you got someone you did not want, then it's
a four-year term. There you sit. If you're rotating, you knew that within a year you were going to be changing the leadership. And that's really where the pros and cons come down. To the public, it gets confusing. Who is chair this year? Who was chair last year? Who's
going to be chair next year? I will tell you in a digital age it's a lot faster to Google that than it was in past times. It meant a call to the county building. It meant a call to city hall to figure out who was mayor. So just food for thought within that.
I also wanted to make a note on the number of seats. Five up to 13. You all obviously have seven in the council manager and commission manager form. Five and seven are your most common numbers everywhere, not just in Florida.
So we've got an anomaly with Broward at nine and then of course Miami Dade very strange but 13. Jack Duval is 19. Yeah you know that's also yeah most people who've been on a council always say that hear that 19 and think no way right.
All right I did want to list a couple of resources. The county charters are online in the municipal codes library. The Florida Association of Counties has some very valuable statistics they can share as well. Really for the form
itself though and to dive deeper, ICMA is going to be your better resource. For some of the materials, you'd want to ask Mr. Parker to go in because they're behind a password. You also have members on staff who are members and they can go
and get into that material as well. But if there were other statistics that you wanted to gather, these are really the best of the resources. So, I did want to leave time for Q&A and uh if I can go back and repeat any of my other comments, I'd be glad to do that. I know
I wanted to keep it to 20 minutes. So, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I appreciate the information and I'm going to open up now for any any questions or comments or or kind of followup from members of the commission. So, Miss Nory recognized.
>> There we go. Um, what do you see when when you have an elected chair like we do in Valia County? Uh, what are the constitutional or charter benefits? Not
I don't know if that's the right word, but what is the difference? What do they like in our and I'll direct this to either Mike or or George. I think the county chair here makes more money and gets to sit on in on the agenda process. Is that correct? And set the agenda, add
items to the agenda. Other than that, what does our county chair do? What are they allowed to do? >> Well, they're correct. They [clears throat] can they can add to the uh agenda. They don't sit in directly on the agenda conference. Uh but we meet
with the uh chair an extra time. >> Okay. um after we've established the agenda then he reviews it and he can add >> is that the only >> another another substantive addition
would be at the organizational meeting at the first of the year he selects which other council members serve on different committees. >> But didn't the chairman who was when we elected the chair from body politic didn't that chairman also do that?
>> I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> Yes. That's usually what you see. There can be appointing issues. There's also the face of the council itself, the public face, which I will call the ceremonial role spokesperson during a crisis.
>> There's the intergovernmental component of who you would have testify. For example, say up in Tallahassee on a particular piece of legislation. Many times it's the chair who then speaks on behalf of the rest of the council. So there is both an intergovernmental
>> expectation that they would reflect the will of the governing body. Yes. Correct. Which is usually not the personal which is usually why they go with a resolution so that it keeps them to >> the task at hand. For example, on an assault for home rule, one would hope
that the chair would then via a resolution be able to speak to whatever the specifics are of that particular bill and it would reflect the will of the full body at that time. The intergovernmental piece as well amongst the rest of the 67 counties for the time
that he or she is chair also that's usually the most recognized position. It doesn't always follow that though because of personality. There are times obviously when it's someone other than the chair who is sort of that role. So
it really you kind of >> whether they are elected or appointed >> whether they are elected or appointed. >> Okay. Because I've seen that as well. >> Yes. >> Um may I have one more question? Um cities
mostly have mayors that are elected. Would that be accurate or >> above 50,000 in population? Yes, ma'am. >> Below >> 50,000 and below of below 50,000 we tend to see there's a handful of directly elected but in the council manager form
itself which again is about twothirds of Florida cities. It is the rotation or the election from within which means the same person can repeat. We always share the South Bay story. 25 years in a row they elected the same mayor, right? but
he had to run every year from within the council. The true rotation is extremely popular between 10,000 and 20,000 because of the desire for shared leadership and the chance to develop someone into a potential leader,
>> but o over 20,000 it's a little different. >> No, above 50,000 you don't see it at all. That's where rotation or or um the elected from within the council above 50,000 in Florida you see directly elected. >> Okay. Thank you. You've been very
helpful. I appreciate your time. >> Mr. Saknowski. >> Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Thanks very much for the presentation. I just had a quick question here in Valuchia. Doesn't the chair also have the power of appointing um certain members either from the public or from the commission to
represent the county on different boards? I I it's a little murky but I think it is in the one of the powers >> you kind of more detail >> like every January at the organizational meeting we'll appoint um other colleagues to the idea is that if it's
something he can't do he selects um another commission council member to serve so like uh TPO for example the transportation planning organization's an example that >> and I'm just going to say that can be a significant power that does exist on the
part of our chair >> ex except that if I remember correctly every chairman going back to my day every chairman elected from the body politic made those decisions as well they were not made unilaterally by the
by the group the chairman who was chairman that year >> made those decisions correct >> I believe you're correct >> thank you that if you have the chair for four years and it that power exists for four years. >> That's exactly. Yeah.
>> Okay. >> I have some questions. >> Okay. >> All right. >> You have the >> um a few different all over all over the place. All right. So, for starters, um I have a question. How many councils and how many commissions separately like are within
the state right now? How many councils are there? >> You mean in terms of who uses that terminology? There is only one county commission that calls itself a council and that is Valuchia. The rest of them use the word commission out of 67. >> Okay. And then as far as the discussion
on the chair appointing um if anyone watches the first meeting of the year, he usually coordinates that he comes in with ideas, but I'm just pointing out he usually does talk to everyone. He doesn't demand anyone. that would not
work, right? I mean, people have schedules and jobs and so I'm just pointing that out. I mean, it's not like he walks in with a list and says you you need to do this and you need to do this. I'm saying that there's coordination. That's all. I just that sounded a little strange to me that he's appointing
people and they have to do. That's not really the case. So >> yeah, I think there's historically at least while that authority rests there, I think there's typically been some coordin some level of coordination, >> right? And then um
Mr. Dyer, you brought up I believe it was in our first meeting about preemptions in the state. You I think you said a number. Do you recall what the number of preemptions currently is? I think
>> sorry back there I believe we've counted about 200 neighborhood of 200. >> Okay. So this question may seem silly but it to me it's not. You're saying that our charter is still respected
under our state constitution. At what point is it really not a charter if we have this many preeemptions? on your legitimate question. >> It's it is very legitimate on a day-to-day operational sense. The legislature by and large has weighed in
in a number of larger areas. They have not weighed in on the day-to-day ability per your charter to conduct government. They have weighed in on things like short-term rentals, tree trimming, smoking in public places, right? Gun
control. Those are four huge areas where both county and municipal completely preempted. Right? There is, if Senate Bill 180 stands, going to be an even greater preeemption when it comes to some of the land use decisions both counties and municipalities make, which
is why there's efforts underway to change what happened with Senate Bill 180. heart blah. There are hundreds of both mandates and preeemptions nationally that get studied by NATO for the counties and national league of cities for the cities. Does it mean your
charter has no respect whatsoever? I would say on specific issues we have holes in us shot straight through. Local government does on your ability to function daytoday your charter is respected and by state agencies your
charter is respected. The legislaturator's actions right now are intensely political. And I say that as a retired person and not on behalf of FCCMA or the Florida League of Cities, but it's just intensely political right now.
>> Other questions? Mr. Clayton, Judge Clayton, sorry, >> Jim. Jim, >> on those counties that have uh five or more commissioners, we have five geographical and then two at large, one being the chair. Is there an advantage
or disadvantage to have an atlarge to in the mix or would it be easier to just have five straight? >> It the rural counties for their five, very few are at large. They are district and they go through redistricting every decade. Okay. So your your ability to
blend the two is definitely more in line with the trends both nationally and in Florida because people worry that district only gets parochial and it's actually the model city charter
and the model county charter both speak very specifically to the nature of parochialism which is that with a blend and you know the blend can be 43 for a seven it can be 52. It can be whatever math you come up with. It's the notion
that there will be a voice not tied to a district. >> Any other members of the commission have uh questions or or comments they want to make? I will say incidentally that shift to that kind of you know at large versus um you know individual member districts.
I was in Penllis County as an assistant county attorney when they were talking about shifting over from I think they had five at large at that point in time to five district and the county manager was Fred Marquis and said he was going to quit if that shift had had been made because he didn't want to have to deal
with the fictims. So just was an interesting dynamic. >> Had they elect their chair? >> Uh they were by group >> by group. >> Yeah. By consensus rotating chair. >> Yep. >> So >> all right. Well, I do remain at your beck and call if there is anything I can do while you all meet this year. I will
wish you all the best in your deliberations and I thank you very much for this opportunity. >> Mr. T, I would like to >> uh thank you >> and and on on behalf of the commission, I just want to say thank you for taking your time to to be here with you um with us this evening and for your family to
be here as well and and uh going beyond just the service that you've provided to the state, which I know has been, you know, you've got a long record of service, but your family does as well. Well, we kind of started it at a very young age in my family. So, yes, that's very that's very true. But happy holidays to >> as as someone who got to go to uh you
know, impact hearings as an elementary school student. I understand that. >> Mr. Chair, >> Mr. Parker, >> I have to say this. Lynn started her professional career in Portal. >> I was the city's very first intern. >> Yes. >> My goodness.
>> Very good. Well, welcome summer. So, yes. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you again. Thank you very much for your time this evening. >> All right. Okay. So, um any other questions or discussion? We're going to get into some further discussion on other topics here
in a minute, but uh and we'll have an opportunity to come back to anything on this as we get to kind of our planning our next steps. Um moving to 5C. I >> I just have one question. >> Yes. >> In listening, I wasn't here at the November meeting. I was out of state,
but in listening um to that meeting, there was a discussion about coming back with information about the Valuchia County Growth Management Commission. Is that going to be put off to another time? I don't see it on the current agenda. So, I just didn't know >> based on some of the input um from the commission at the last meeting, we
wanted to limit the number of presentations we had at any individual meeting. So, I think we were going to be doing that at the January meeting if I remember correctly. >> Yes. >> So, the goal is So, I met with with staff to kind of talk through how to organize everything. um after our last meeting and we kind of thought, okay, we
would do that this meeting or have Miss Typton come in this meeting and she was available. So, we we scheduled her first and and we wanted to kind of keep the length of the meeting a little bit shorter. So, >> thank you. >> We will be coming back to that at a future meeting. >> Okay. Um
moving on to 5C. Um we gave a lot of in of work uh to staff at the last meeting. Um, I want to thank them for the the their response and and the work that they put in um to kind of take what we gave them and distill it down into um
the draft language that you see behind tab C. Um, and I don't want to necessarily go through these one by one like we've done in the past. Um, I wanted to see if there were any that we wanted to kind of talk about specifically. So, let me just go around
the table and see if if you've got any numbers we want to specifically talk about. Um, chime in and and let me know and then we'll kind of go through. Now, I don't suggest that we're going to um, you know, approve final language tonight. What I what I think that the
goal here is approve the ones we want staff to move forward with drafting, you know, uh, ballot language and a summary for because that's the next step. When we look at an actual, uh, amendment that would be going to the charter that we would be recommending moving forward, there's got to be ballot language. There's got to be a ballot summary
that's included in it. What you see in the 16 um proposed amendments that have been drafted are basically staff's translation of what we said at the last meeting or the last couple of meetings. Um, so now that we've got that in a form
where we can kind of look at what the meaning of each of those changes would be, um, what I'd like to do is, you know, get your input on, you know, are there any of these that you think, okay, now that I see what this looks like, there's no reason to move forward with this or any that you want to talk about
any any more particularity before, um, you know, we we ask staff to continue working on developing these. And you know, I think just one of the things that jumps out to me personally is I think we're going to lose voters if we have 16 items on on there. So, um I
think that's one of the other things we need we may need to think about as we're as we're kind of looking through everything that's on the list here. So, um in any event, >> yeah. Well, and this is by no means the the end of the proposal. So, there's this just where we are now. >> This is where we are with the the
information we've talked about. >> Yeah. Um thinking that I understand where you're headed with this 2 47 and 16 is I would have questions about >> okay two 47 156
okay >> minor minor well really language questions >> okay >> any others Mr. Lewis, >> I would hope that we could get this down to three or four amendments. When we get it won't pass that, then the public
tends to just know all of them. >> They don't read them. They just know them all. >> Yeah. >> And uh I think we could consolidate some of these that deal with the constitutional officers of the changes. >> I think just certain be addressed. That should be able to be done with one
amendment. that it's they have the authority to change it based on that thing. >> And I'm going to ask Mr. Dyer in a minute to kind of talk about some of these that may be able to be combined into into a you know kind of a a more streamlined single amendment. >> Any other specific ones that that
anybody wants discussion on? Mr. Clayton, >> I have no questions about that. But some of us are very picky about dates and things. I believe our charter form of government came out Sep 1971. Y'all have
73. It was voted on in 70, passed in started January 1st, 1971. How do I know that? I graduated from high school in 1971. It happened while I was a senior, I believe. I might be wrong on that, >> but that was three or four years you
were a senior. >> Maybe that's the year I got my GED. I can't remember. >> Nothing further, Mr. CL. Okay. You had to say that, >> Miss Nory. >> Yeah. I I'm I like Mr. Lewis. I think there are some that we could probably combine. And I was going to ask you
specifically, are we going to break into some kind of committees to review this or do this holistically because this is quite a large group and >> yeah, um I think that's part of the discussion for you know once we kind of look at what's here. Um I wanted to see
if if there's you as we talk about topics for the next meeting I think we may need to talk about whether we need to form any group to try and work on consolidation. >> I had one quick question I can get back to first of all let me tell you I would like to see us I think we have to talk about protecting
conservation lands. Uh if anybody watched the the meeting on Tuesday they would know how important this is that we do something. And I don't know that I agree with the language particularly on the registry and how that does but I've got some ideas on on language that I
think probably the staff would could guide us there. But uh I think that is an important amendment. >> Yep. >> I think I think the uh amendment on how we our makeup of the council which would include uh compensation would include
how they're made up. I think like Droid was talking maybe we could consolidate all those together and and I would like to to see that >> if I can suggest if you could specify by number so it' be easier to follow what you're saying. >> Okay. Um 14,
>> right? >> Let me go back here. >> 14 is the one relating to conservation lands. We'll talk about >> Yes. Y 12. >> And and I have a question. Well, I'll wait till we have hear from the staff,
but then there would be I don't think the council organizational meeting date is something that needs to be in the charter. Um, hold on. I'm sorry I didn't write them down by numbers, but I'm getting to them. number four.
Number three, and well, I don't see it as a number of what we just spoke about with our uh presentation. Maybe that comes under >> don't know that we um I think there was
a general placeholder for government structure at number 12. >> Number 12. Okay, that that would go there. >> Okay. And then I I guess I'm going to ask for some information from staff about um section uh the administrative departments of the
government, the name changes, whether that could be done by resolution of the county council as opposed to going into the charter in an effort to keep those charter amendment uh down, keep the charter amendments down. So that's it.
>> Okay. Any other specific items you want to talk about that haven't been named already? >> All right. >> Four and 14. I'm I'm just agreeing. I just want to make sure and 14. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And just
in terms of consolidation, I agree with Miss Nory that for example, if if what I considered a number of these to be were I would call housekeeping amendments, for lack of a better word, they do not housekeeping amendments at least in the past because I've looked at them,
>> they were they were just consolidated. So there's certain things like the department um there was one I think they called it a department director number 10, for example. uh there's no reason 10 wouldn't be consolidated with number one type of thing. So basic
critical changes but they're let's say updates. >> The other things are separate issues and I think deserve for sever. So I don't think we should get hung up on the number of these because so many of them can be consolidated. >> Okay. >> The only thing I would say just be cautious is there's a single subject
requirement. >> So so Mr. Dio I was going to turn to you. Can you talk a little bit about the idea of what you view in this current list that we could consolidate potentially into, you know, kind of a more limited amendment that's a housekeeping amendment, if you will. >> If you're interested, we certainly can
look at it. I would say one is your largest amendment, which was the implementation of amendment 10 just because there's so many references have to be updated, but that's okay because that's still a single subject. I think if you start deviating be beyond
implementing amendment 10 to the constitution, you start maybe running a foul of that simple subject requirement. It would need to be a separate ballot question. >> Okay. >> Can I take a question? >> So take amendment 10 updates. Are you is
all the language here like on the five pages or so that would all have to be on the ballot or is there a way to explain it conceptually? >> Yeah. So when you get your ballot and you go in to vote, what you required to
have is by statute a ballot title and it's capped at how long that is and a ballot summary up to 75 words. So you actually don't see all the language changes, but you're supposed to describe it, which is some of the, you know, in
litigation involving referenda is, you know, you can't be misleading, you got to be clear. Um, and it it's got to be a single subject so people know what they're voting on. >> Thank you. >> So, just expanding on that, Mr. Dyer,
can you um are there other items in here that may address different changes or different sections of the charter that could be lump lumped into sort of a single subject of of revisions to um I mean, I know we we're specifically
talking about an amendment to implement you know or you know potential amendment to implement constitutional amendment 10. Could you have other another amendment that may address multiple sections or multiple items in here that address modernization of of the charter for example?
>> I think beyond amendment 10 my initial X is no. >> Okay. But it depends on what you know for example uh the item sorry I had it here the one on directors uh item 10 on page
12 I think that is a separate issue even though you're kind of administratively updating a charter is different than implementing amendment 10 I think that would be a freestanding amendment >> whereas >> but for example 10 and 13 where you're
talking about department directors and human resource director or personnel board. >> That would be one one you possibly can look at. I mean really the impact of 13 is the your HR director is not independent of the county manager
reports to the county manager. Uh so when it was but when this was written when Mr. Clayton was graduating high school >> in one of his senior years. >> Yeah, you you didn't have first rules in place. This pro probably was the first
time an HR director was required. So, you know, I would say if you did uh the the qualification section for HR director very broad already. Um I think the current charter says they shall be
selected on the basis of professional training and experience in personnel administration. That's pretty broad, right? But there's it's still a director. So the title would be department directors and it would include both. That's I mean I don't see
any single subject issue with that at all. >> I'm sorry. What what are you saying? The reference would be on if we were to approve this then it would just be the reference would be to department directors there's department directors
is a broad obviously the HR director is a director so it's just the subject is department directors >> okay if that yeah it depends on what you do and what you want to do >> right these aren't >> approve you have a structure now in the
charter you had a preliminary list of what those departments were but then it said those departments can be updated by council by ordinance which they have done over the decades. That was just a starting point.
>> Thank Mr. Chair. I I read these and the language is pretty clear in that it uses the word director, but it uses it in a completely different fashion from an HR standpoint. Uh it looks like we're describing exactly what the HR
director does. they are not an elected official and we're cleaning up that and so but on the other side we're answering the question of department of director she'll be the principal officer the department responsible we're talking about the same person but two completely different subjects and so I I understand
the need Nicholas has on combining everything and I agree because I like short and sweet to the point but these really are two separate issues with the same director so I I understand why staff would want to look at these as two separate issues
I'm just suggesting that the other option would be to you could eliminate the entire section if it's HR since it's already covered by the right to appoint directors anyway. There's a lot of there's a we haven't even begun to discuss this. >> No. And I I think this and and kind of
structural stuff may be kind of where we go into do we need to deep deep dive into this. Mr. Parker, it's >> very unusual to see in the charter to have a listing of departments and all of the other types of things.
>> It seems like that is uh a just a simple statement that the county council can establish the departments, >> okay, is all it's really needed. and these other items. It seems like it's just extraneous information and language
that shouldn't even be in the charter. >> So, for example, a charter a ballot question that says, "Shall the the charter be updated to provide that the county council may by an ordinance establish the structure of the director?" >> To me, that's what needs to be because I've looked at charters and ours is so
detailed. It's very detailed >> and and I raised that question with the county attorney when we were talking about the HR director. You could argue that the HR director, for example, is a charter officer because it is named
specifically in the charter. Now we had that discussion whether or not that was legal or not but you know it could be argued that I think that from my perspective that whole section it really is non-gerermanine. It should be the
power of the council to establish the structure and uh because you know think about what was uh applicable in 1971 and what's applicable today may not be the same departments. Matter of fact, they're not.
>> I think that's a a very good point. So, I think there's there's probably a handful of things in the in the current list that um you know, I think we either um you know, can ask staff to go back and look at, you know, kind of collapsing them down into a more
consolidated um you know, amendment singular uh versus the list. Um and and perhaps even, you know, that's that's where, you know, we may need some additional time from some members in the commission or uh you know, to to kind of weigh in on that and and work on organizing that to bring it back to the
full body. Does um from the commission standpoint, would you group the the discussion of structure into that? Do we stay with council manager? Do we u you make any changes to that or do we keep that as a separate discussion?
I I I would say as that's a significant change whether we continue with the current process or whether we return to a more to the process we like within the body politic I think that's probably it
for right now I think that's probably a separate discussion but it might be appropriate at some point to roll that into some other stuff so >> yeah agreed Okay. >> So, I think that would help us to to kind of get that a little bit more
focused, get some of the, you know, some of this cut down so that we can get everything under a single subject. >> Thank you. >> Um, Mr. Steinowski. >> Yeah. About that issue of structure. I think that's tailor made for a sub company because right now we had a great
presentation. I think a lot of people learned a lot tonight. I think that if you wanted to select three or four people to kind of maybe review options, that's great to have a report in January, but to to involve all of us where there's no specific proposal made
so far to change the structure, I think would be unwise. So, I think that's a subcommittee would be great for a sub. >> Okay. What's the >> I I think I agree with that. In fact, I think that most of this work should now transition to a subcommittee level and and I'm thinking, Mr. chairman, we might
need to meet more than once every one once a month uh to get some of this work done because we have a deadline of what March or April >> May. And so after tonight, you would have five monthly meetings unless you
>> I I think we need to do some subcommitteees work. One of the things that I'd previously asked um staff to look at was you know the avail you know January February in particular additional meeting nights where we could pull people together >> knowing that we would probably be getting into some of this discussion but
I do tend to think that that you know some of the stuff on structure of government um and even even some of this discussion on consolidation like how could we >> even the name change you know from council to commission you you really probably could have a committee that's looking at that >> I think so
>> um And um okay, so we'll get to that in a in a couple of minutes. Um and and as we're talking about how to to move forward to the next meeting, we'll talk about maybe setting up a committee to to do some work on that and then we can coordinate that committee from there. >> Mr. Chair, the commission
>> in reference to name change and I agree with it the name change. Do we have to put that in charter? Or I think we heard a while ago that we could actually the county council by their ruling could call themselves something different. So why not just forget that
and let the county council do that? You know, that's one thing you could just knock out of the way and take out some of the confusion and let the county council >> I was actually wondering that with some of the other stuff too by resolution. >> So Mr. Though the charter refers to the elected
body as a council, could the council pass a resolution saying it identifies as a commission? I >> think the [laughter] I think the council's sorry the charter specific they're known as a council. >> Yeah, I think I think that's the one
thing we've got that's a little bit unique is that we did make that choice when we in sometime between 1971 and 1973 um to say we're a council of Valuchia County. Um and uh and that's that's how we're referred to. Um but I you know I do think that that's one of those
changes that I think you could >> maybe roll in with you know something dealing with the compensation and the you know you know >> it's minor >> some of those you know some of those other things. So okay >> you know if you read the organizational
uh minutes of making the charter they made it council for a reason. I believe it should be changed, but you can't I don't believe the county council can change it. I think it has to be changed the other way. But it was made council so it looked like they were all together because they were commissioners. They
were having problems with being being you had your own little fight there and you're trying to organize it back together. >> No, I agree. It was an intentional intentional change at the time. Okay, Mr. Chair. Yes. A question for Mr. Dyer. Mr. Mr. D, in making recommendations to be put on the ballot, is there a
difference between those that have a fiscal impact, a dollar amount, say if we decide to increase the salary of county council versus a simple name change or legislation modifying the charter? >> Procedurally, it would be the same process. It would just the amendments
have to cover a single subject. So, you couldn't have five or six subjects rolled into one ballot question. >> Sure. So, for instance, if I if we had a measure put on the ballot to rename the council to a commission and combine it
with the motion to increase the salary, those two wouldn't fly. We'd have to separate those out making separate issues. >> Yeah, that would be my recommendation. Yes. >> And that was my concern in looking at combining so many different things that there is a fiscal impact like that. I mean, simply changing the name of
council is going to have a huge fiscal impact because we're going to have to rename everything under the sun. So, that's definitely going to have one, but in talking about salary or benefits, uh, I would imagine that those two definitely have to be separate. So, we just have to be careful in trying to combine too much and increasing your
workload by going, "Wait a minute, that's too much in one jar." >> Agreed. >> Nice, Mr. Johnson. to shorten it up and this may not be able to be done but to shorten it up if you just put in the sentence the Valuchia County Council of Commission to be known as the council
has and and just add in the sentence so it just kind of slips by the state does that to people all the time but just you know instead of making a deal about it just a sentence in there that it the council or the commission that's formerly going to be known as Valuchia
Council then go into the subject now you put it in there and voting on something that's important and change something that's simple, >> right? >> Okay. >> Commissioner Clayton had requested information about how much it would cost >> to change it and I believe you gave us5
to $10,000 and plaques, you know, that are already up and things that already up wouldn't need to be changed. It' be simple things like stationary and >> that type of thing. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Which is often virtual as you said. Yes. >> That was our best guesstimate at the
time. It's not a big not a big expense. >> And I think that the part of that was typically when there's an election there's all those things are updated anyway. And so that you know would would likely follow you'd be doing a lot of those updates anyway. Um you know after 2026 when some of the council or
commission members, council members, whatever they are >> um may be different. So >> what would >> Yeah, I have two other areas that I think I would like to explore. I'm not number 15. Um, I I don't normally would
would say enshrining that into the into the charter when it it's already in the comp plan and the council had pretty much ignored comp plan language. I mean, I guess the comp
plan language was written so that up to a certain amount they could that gave them the ability to say no, no, we're not doing but but this is the cultural activities issue is still out there. We're still
hearing about that and and I don't know whether there's interest in adding that some kind of a a certain level of funding to the charter. I don't like normally doing those kinds of things, but they, in my opinion, they
ignored the comp plan. They ignored their own uh ability to tell. Well, I mean, not their ability, they told people what they expected and then they they came back and they kicked their butts on it. So, leave that one out there for for some
thought. And then interlocal infrastructure coordination amendment. I I happen to like this very much. I just don't know whether it belongs in the charter as much as whether it could be a comprehensive plan issue. >> What number is that, please? >> Number 16,
>> which would be a new item. It's less last last one. I I like it. I think we should be doing all this coordination. Um, my city is guilty of not provide not not participating the way they should, but I'm wondering if that could be done
a different way. I don't know George [clears throat] >> you council does uh put these things together from time to time does not have to be in the charter I mean we have the council with the >> but but how would you get the the cities
to engage that I think >> that's well it would have to be an interlocal agreement for them to >> you could do it by interlocal agreement >> Mr. Johnson, >> I think we're making a mistake on number 15 of even looking at it. Now, I agree
that we should be >> following I agree that we should be doing it. Now, I'm not saying that, but you're running into a big problem. We don't know what's going to happen next year and the state could totally destroy your budgets and you start putting in something here that you don't have the ability to fund or you have to cut some
kind of very important funding in order to do this. I think this needs to be the citizens pressuring the county council on what to do. And it >> councils don't stay the same, but we need to pair down things. I'm going to make a motion that we take number 15 and
we pair it totally out of this thing. We got more important things right now. Let let the you know I know it's it's a tough thing and I signed that letter right along with you because I agreed on it >> but it's something we need to leave in the hands of the council because we can't tie the hands on funding in the
future when we don't know what the funding is going to be. >> We I I bring it up only because we've heard about it from the public several times and I thought we needed to discuss it. >> Okay. >> There's a motion on the floor. That's what I was about to say. Mr. Johnson's
made a motion to have 15 removed from our our discussion with regard to cultural amendment as it at least as it's currently reflected in here. >> I'll second that. >> All right. So, we've got a motion and a second on uh discontinuing the discussion on what's currently proposed
as uh amendment 15 or at least the the example number 15. >> Any discussion? >> Yes, I >> Mr. Saknovski. Well, Miss Shyber chimed in first >> right now either. >> Okay. Um, the item doesn't currently have any
funding attached to it. So, we're looking at getting rid of the item even without funding attached to it. Uh, I'm asking, >> yes, without a doubt. Because if we go more than three or four items, we're not going to get any of them done. We have to go back to what's most important to us that we can maybe get passed through
that's going to have the most effect on citizens of Valuchia County. So, we have to pair down somewhere. And I think this is one rather than putting especially what we can put out doesn't mean a damn thing. So I think you know let's let's just do away with it and get to more important
items. We got to take and pair them down so we can get this this job done with the chance of getting important things passed. >> Mr. Zaknowski. >> Thank you. The way I see this is that this again would be something that can be lumped in with a number of other issues that were brought up to by the
public including this evening where and by the presentation if we look at what other counties do and the way they word this they they do put concepts like priorities of let's say transportation funding or arts funding. There's many things that can be lumped in to a
preamble or to a you know of a bill of rights type. That's the kind of thing that would be tailor made for a subcommittee. So in if that if there were to be a subcommittee created to look at that option to include these various things as we've gotten a lot of as Miss Nory mentioned there's been a
lot of different members of the public mentioning different things. That's the kind of thing that this job that is our job to look at. It doesn't matter what we individually may think. The the question is what does the public want and the public definitely wants to see
if anyone who listens out there and I do they want to see something happening and right now they don't perceive that it's happening and whe it while it may not mean anything to us individually it definitely means something to the voters so I would just encourage us it this
this amendment can this prop motion can pass as but I would then I will sub if it does I will just say to I will make a motion to refer to a subcommittee along with the other issues that have been brought up because I think it's a generic thing. But so I agree with the
idea of removing it as an individual item, but I don't agree with removing it from our thinking. >> I I would like to amend my motion. >> Okay, Mr. Johnson, >> that we put this in our recommendation letter to the council that they support it. >> I second that.
>> Second that amendment. >> Okay. All right. Got an amended motion on the floor and a >> No, no. There's an amendment to the motion or is it because we still have a motion on the floor. >> Would you like to withdraw your motion and make a different motion? >> No, we would have to vote. >> I'm adding to the motion.
>> Amended his motion. >> You're amending your motion. >> Motion. Okay. >> I'm a corner board. Can you modify the I'm I'm not commenting on the validity or not valid. Can you modify a motion after it's been seconded it? >> No. That's the point. Only the group can
second or agree >> or or we can vote it down and then >> Mr. Dyer, can I get you to weigh in on the procedural aspect? >> Let's vote it down and start over. Let's get going. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's make We've got a motion on the the original motion on the floor. Do you want to just >> No, you can't do that. It's already on the floor and seconded.
>> There's a There's a motion that's been made. Hold on. Motion's been made and properly seconded. And that was to withdraw uh from consideration uh uh charter draft charter amendment number 15. Mr. Any further discussion? >> Mr. Dyer, if I withdraw my second, does
that allow Mr. Johnson to correct his amendment without us having a vote? Do you want to come back? >> There is a textbook answer. Yes. And there's a practical one. >> Often what I see textbook answer is once you restate the motion after it's
seconded, you're not spelled you're not supposed to withdraw it. However, in practice, it is common for committees elected by IC to ask a second if it will withdraw. He withdraws this motion and restates it. It just depends on how formal this body wants to act on that.
There's not a legal answer. >> I would prefer to do that and allow Mr. Johnson to amend his original motion. That way, we don't have to go through the practice of a vote and then we can proceed. >> Do you withdraw your second? >> I'll withdraw my second pending a modification to the original motion.
>> Mr. Johnson, back to you. I I will modify my amendment or motion that we take number 15 off the books, but we take and on our on our letter to the council, recommendation letter to the council that they we recommend strongly
that they support the c encourage support of culture in the community and the council to maintain and adopt or as deems no not to do that. back up here. I'm about to get screw
this thing up. Good. Um, we withdraw number 15, but we send a letter in our letter to the council that we suggest that they follow the will of the citizens about supporting >> these this issue.
>> And I >> Okay, there's a motion. >> Can I reconfirm my second on that? >> Miss Munzi seconds the the motion. Any further discussion on this motion? >> All in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Any opposed? >> Miss Munzi, >> I was wondering if we might be able to
do the same thing with 16 because I I agree with 16. I think it's great. >> I just feel like it might be better suited for a recommendation letter >> and and I will say so I I drafted 16. So let me let me kind of tell you what my my thinking on it was and and then I'm
I'm more than happy to go with the will of the commission on it. What this reflects is what actually occurred after the last series of storms. And in the context of Senate Bill 180 and the other preeemptions that we're dealing with in this current setting, um there's limited things that
you can do with regard to saying there's a specific set of standards that we could incorporate or other specific things that you could incorporate into the charter. And I personally don't think you should put specifics of that nature into the charter if we grant. So looking at the charter as a thing that
creates structure for government, my purpose in in proposing that you put a committee like this into the charter because then it helps the county to have a little bit more leverage in that ordinance that they adopt. So either you go chase 16 interlocal agreements or you
have an ordinance that the county council is empowered to pass that says if you want to participate in funding that comes through the county then you will be part of this this um this committee. >> Important point. Thank you. >> And and so that was my point in in in putting it into here into the structure
as a charter body that the council is authorized to to create. So >> thank you >> Mr. Chair. Yes. I come from a law enforcement background as Sheriff Johnson does and we see on the ground the impact of too many layers of
supervision when it comes to actually assessing the needs on the ground during these emergency services events and I'm sure Mr. Parker has seen it more than a few times in the city of Port Orange. My concern if we do this we add yet another layer of people that decisions have to
be made through when we already have emergency management services. We have the EOC, we have all of these other services in place where we see this coordination already. And my concern is is we add yet another layer of supervision between what's actually
going on on the ground and the decision-m. Now, if if it's a a review committee to go back and look at the critical incident, whether it's a hurricane or or whatever, and they want to look at that and and work with the different parties, then great. we already have all of these systems in place and there's already a time
consuming process to make things happen. So, so that would be my concern with that. >> Mr. Johnson, >> I think this is a good idea. There's no doubt about it. I really truly believe it's a good idea, but we're on a pairing mission somewhere down the line. I mean, we got
to take good ideas and take them out. But I think this is another one that we need to make a strong recommendation in our letter to the council and because u like I said we got all kinds of stuff going on but we cannot take everything in this booklet and get it passed and
we're going to take and we have to get back to the more important ones. So I is your motion still in place? >> Um >> I don't know that I made it a formal motion. >> Should make a formal motion at this point? I could make it as a formal motion and see the will of the the
commission, but I move that item 16 be moved to the recommendation letter. >> Is there a second? I'll second. Got a motion and a second. Any further discussion? >> I ask a question. I ask Mr. Parker in private. What is the transportation planning organization?
>> What is that? >> PO that's they do traffic. >> I know, but what is it? That's it's capitalized that statally uh >> Yes, it is. Yeah, that's a fally required committee and uh spend uh federal uh transportation dollars and
it's actually >> So what is that? A statutory organization? >> Yeah. >> Federal or state? >> Federal. >> Well, it's required by the feds. I think it's established by the state because the state collects the federal monies and then just for the sake of
discussion. What if that was done away with? Then that that messes up the language of your charter. So I really support what Miss Newy said, I think this is something I look at the charter as our constitution, >> right? >> The less the better. The less wordy the
better. It gets the less complicated the better. This is a great idea, >> but I don't know why it needs to be in the charter. So, that's why I support it. >> And if it doesn't work, you can't fix it for 10 years. >> That's right. >> Fair fair points. >> Wait, we have to h I I agree. But we
have to have a way that and I'm going to go back back to my own city to ensure that everybody is at the table. charter language doesn't do that one way or the other, but but when we make a recommendation to the uh council, we
need to make somehow or other make that recommendation that and I don't know whether you have some ideas on this or not, but I can tell you there are cities that do not participate and it causes some grief and we need to figure out I
don't know how how to do that by language, but certainly that's a problem. Maybe not for the law enforcement side. I maybe but but I can tell you that I have specific times when Deltona did not show up at
the EOC. >> Well, and and I guess >> No, that's true. >> Yeah. And and and I think you I agree with everything that's been said. Again, this is something I drafted based on just kind of watching what's happened after the last um storms. I think the the the effect of what I've
recommended is the thing I'd like to see happen, not necessarily where it is. Um, I will ask those who was on the council 10 years ago. Who was on the county council 10 years ago that's sitting here? >> I left in 14. >> Okay. Dwight, were you there?
>> No. Dwight was there either. >> And Ben, you were on it. >> Billy was there was there. >> I guess my only question to you is, do you remember the things that were in the recommendation letter that came from the charter review commission? Can we get a copy of that? >> Yeah. >> Oh, I see which where you go with that.
>> Good point. >> Yeah, Mark. I have them framed in my office. [laughter] >> Really? >> I figured you did, >> Mark. >> All right, let's do this. >> Mark, yes. I'm sorry. >> Sorry, Mr. Shy. >> I'm sorry. I have to interject. I have a question. Are when are we going to discuss what was brought to the podium
tonight with us? because we're voting on some things that would be impacted by one of the items there. So, I I'm trying to keep from voting no here, but to be honest, I would like to discuss that. So, I I'm curious when we're going to
reach that point. >> So, let's talk about committees because I think we I >> Well, well, you have a motion on the floor. That's the problem. You're go you're allowing all these motions but we're not you we started out with this discussion going around what are you interested in talking about further and now we started voting on things so I
have a concern about the order >> okay >> let's go back to the motion on the floor then thank you for the point of order we have a motion on the floor and a second order >> speak >> Mr. Parker to the motion. >> Okay,
let's talk about some of the practicalities. Okay, because you know I go back to 2004 when we had some major storms and I look at there were a group of cities that came together and said county
of the major infrastructure the drainage system now I'm talking about the and I can just name in my city the B19 canal the B23 canal actually legally the Cambridge canal belongs to the county uh
and all of those types of things. And as they were coming through, what we were finding is that there was some that's where all the major outfalls are at were saying we need to have somebody who coordinates
between cities because you control the county controls most of the major infrastructure that is out there. Now, I'm not talking about, you know, uh, you know, getting into some of the other details, but I read this as a coordination, which I
think the county could do, but I, uh, but I because of their infrastructure that it's belongs to them and they are responsible for the maintenance of it and we're putting the and cities and
counties are putting the city and the county are both putting water into that and so whether it is a charter amendment or not I think the county has to assume that role because they are the major
people who maintain that infrastructure and if you go back to the pre71 charter okay is that there were all these drainage districts that were then merged into the mosqu over on the east
side into the mosquito control district. These mosquito control if you go back and read it and in fact the major canals were dug by them in order to be maintained by them which
then I think puts the coordination back in the county's responsibility. That's just me and uh George and I have had this discussion before. But what if what the problem is is that there are some players who don't want to play.
>> Correct. If you want me to >> add to that, I I would just say a couple things. Uh >> number one, >> we could block the flow and people would come. Uh it's it's uh one way to get everyone at the table, but uh and the
other of course $400 million uh which is what we have out there right now brought everyone to the table because if you want to if you want to work with us then you're going to have to come to the meeting and attend or you're not going to get the your your part of the money.
So there are ways of doing it. I think this is a good idea. we can put it in the charter and then therefore like you say you would have a little an automatic way to bring them together. Uh that'd be great. If not, we can bring
them together other ways. Money usually being one of the quickest uh to do that. And and Mr. Parker's right. I mean uh yes, those are the major outfalls, but a lot of the flooding and stuff I will say in recent uh times isn't just from the
outfalls that we control. I mean, there are a lot of neighborhoods and things that have nothing to do with the county. >> Absolutely. >> Uh and so, but yet the county, we want to help all neighborhoods because again, people forget everybody in a city is also a citizen of the county. So, we so
we're going to help everybody. Uh and I think that's the right thing to do. So, e either way you go, uh we're good. If you're into the thinning out mode, well, we do have another option. And I think that's a good way to look at it. If if you don't think it's going to make the
final cut, then cut it now and and we'll move on to other things. If you want to keep it alive for a while, uh it's certainly a good idea. >> And I think that was sort of my my point. Um it's excellent. I think what you wrote here is is sorely needed, but
I don't know that it needs to be in the charter since we are trying to whittle down and we see that the county county manager office has really worked hard on this, >> right? >> And it's at the forefront in everybody's mind >> and so he's already got another option there of making cities come to the table and work together on this. So, and
>> so we have a >> I have to applaud the county manager's office for for working on this so strenuously since the flooding. >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we have a motion and a second on the floor. Uh, any further discussion on the motion? >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat the motion now?
>> The motion is to strike number 16 um uh from the uh list of amendments and included in the recommendation letter that goes to the county council that that general concept of coordination on the infrastructure. Any further discussion, clarification?
All in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Any opposed? >> All right. >> I opposed. Okay, >> I'm going to oppose as well. >> So that's two in opposition. >> So a point of order then, Mr. Chair, >> Mr. Saknowski.
>> Yeah. So are we going to create a subcommittee to draft this recommendation letter? Because of there's no doubt that just based on my memory, we've already put at least four or five items into a recommendation letter and I but it's not been cohesive and I haven't seen a document on it. So,
uh, could I request that you actually create some subcommittees at this point so we have a better idea of where we're going? >> Yeah, I think based on where the conversation's gone in general on the on this list of 16 things this evening, I think probably the best next step is to say what are the subcommittees that the group thinks we need to have. I think a
drafting subcommittee is probably one of them that looks at uh the preparation of that letter. uh and I think a government structure um you know that uh committee that could look at that general question and then also some of the the cleanup amendments as well and put that into a
committee that could bring forward a proposal. I I I really think based on the fact that the c that the state has their own uh item in their in constitute I'm sorry has their item in their constitution regarding a disposition of
land that we need to put something into the charter for that that I think would be a committee that we need to talk about that. >> Okay. So I've got a total of three potential subcommittees that we're going to talk about forming. Is that >> Mr.
that Mr. Dyer. >> Yeah, I if I could, it's entirely up to the commission on how they want to proceed. So, uh, some here may disagree with me. That's fine. You have seven, you had 16 ideas listed in this packet.
You have narrowed it based on the comments I've heard, just if anybody wants to correct me, to seven. So, I I guess my question would be, well, here's my advice. I think you proceed at this point with
concepts that either you support or you have an interest in exploring. If it's something, which I think you've done, if it's something that you're not interested in pursuing, rule that out. I mean, if you end up supporting what your
colleagues have mentioned, you would be reserving uh sending seven of these topics in some way to a committee. Mr. Dyer, can you run through the the ones that um that you've got in your list of seven to be pulled off those
>> uh one which is basically implementing the changes to Florida's constitution from amendment 10 in 2018. >> You have item two
on page seven. um the voting threshold between uh for CRC and council to put changes on the ballot. >> We have yet to discuss that one. >> We haven't talked about that. >> We haven't talked about that yet. But >> but you have uh number four. We have yet
to discuss number three. >> Correct. >> Oh, excuse me. Three. No, no. Well, I'm re Hold on a second. I'm restating what you all have suggested. So I I'm hoping you do talk about them. So >> I I think what Mr. Dyer is restating is
the ones that people have said we want to talk further about, not the ones that we're eliminating. >> That's not what he said, but I don't know. >> That's what I said. >> We got rid of some. You said >> stating what the members of this commission have said they want to discuss more.
>> Correct. >> So item three, which was the name of the county council. Number four, council salary and expenses. And if I'm misstating these, correct me. Um, I believe the next was number seven,
which was the preeemption report. The next I have is 12, which was the governmental structure and the presentation you had this evening. 14 which was protecting conservation
lands. >> I believe that's it. >> And then 15 and 16 we've had motions to remove. >> Yes sir. >> Can I ask a question? >> Mr. chairman. Uh the the one about the um 2/3 versus the the
um 50%. >> What number is that? >> I'm trying. >> Is that what it is? I'm reading I'm trying to find it. >> Oh, I thought I'm sorry. >> No, that's the organization >> is the number two. Is that Yeah, number two. The CRC and county council to vote uniformly on proposed charter amendments. No, it's it's how we vote
whether it's by twothirds because right now it's twothirds majority if I remember correctly >> as opposed to a majority. >> Yeah. Okay. Number two, I guess number two. >> Number two. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Um is that something that
that that we need to talk about or can we just is that >> is that in the charter, Mr. Dyer, that about how we how we vote that we vote by supermajority.
>> Yeah. Council has a twoird vote requirement to put somebody on the ballot. >> The CRC is really silent. So >> So we're silent. >> So it's been this but it's my understanding that the
council doesn't vote on any of our amendments. we go directly to the ballot whatever >> except uh the only minor exception is because of state law on the land use items that would preempt a city but beyond that yes and that's changed since 10 years ago.
>> Yeah, I was going to say because that wasn't 10 I was on the committee 10 years ago. Okay. So, is that really something that we even need to talk about? >> Yes. >> Why, Mr. Senovski? >> Okay. Again, let me just say in in
looking at the you mentioned um I I had requested to discuss that one further and the the other one was that you mentioned the uh I think it was six. Let me just double check here. Yeah. So number six it having re read it again I
only and it's not a it's just one word but the idea of between shall and may the char just like we talked about constitutions this being our constitution constitutions are are mandatory they're not suggestions
and so if we're going to do this it should have the word shall not may if we're going to include that I'm just suggesting that that's why I didn't catch that earlier, so I'll add six back in. But going back to two, there's a lot of layers to two that have not been
discussed on this. It is I don't even I mean I don't want to consume the the commission's time this evening. It's again something I'm happy to discuss in a subcommittee, but yes, there is a lot behind that. >> Well, yeah, then to a subcommittee, please.
>> Okay, so we need some committees. I think that's going to be the most effective way to be able to move some of the discussion forward with regard to a number of these these topics. Um I've mentioned a drafting committee um
mentioned a government structure committee that I think a lot of the housekeeping would also kind of fit into looking at the charter making those kinds of recommendations. Um and then I know we've we've got the discussion of the conservation land as the additional
one. any other topic >> I would just I would just include in the conservation the whole idea that of including it it because I've really listened to a lot of folks about how >> we don't want to get too specific in the thing in the charter but there's a lot of issues that the public has expressed
concern about it's conservation land's for sure one of them but I would in encourage that assignment to that committee be to include other concerns that have been raised by the public because we haven't been responsive to many of the things that have been brought to But that was definitely the most
significant. >> This specifically Cole pulls out in section 18 dispositions of conservation lands. And I think that we had to be very specific in Valuchia in our Valuchia charter because if you had listened to the last council meeting,
you'd be on fire. >> Which which number though are we talking about? I >> think we're talking about 14. >> The number 14 again. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry, George. Was that the wrong thing to say? Hair on fire. Number 14, I think, is the one that that relates to. >> Gotcha. I I
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> I would just I would just suggest that we have at least one more and we could put it even if it's assigned to governmental structure, just the idea that we have to respond to some of these suggestions that we've been receiving. Okay. So far, we haven't been.
>> Mr. Dyer, from a procedural standpoint, forming the subcommittees, is that within my purview as chair or is that something that we need to do from a body standpoint? >> I think You could do it either way. I think it's within your perview. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And do it.
>> Okay. >> So, I'm going to go ahead and form those committees. Um, with regard to putting members on those committees, I will follow up from here with staff. >> I guess to email you with what we would like. >> I would like Yeah, thank you. That's a good >> I don't think we can do that him directly to him. That would be an
improper communication. >> I was going to redirect in public man. >> Mr. Saknowski, I was going to redirect that to staff. Um right. >> So if you if you are interested uh I think we've enumerated three key subcommittees that we'll be looking at uh populating. If you will email Mr.
Booker um and uh let him know your interest in in being on any of those committees. Then I will get together with staff and we'll form those committees. I'll appoint a chair and we'll move forward um with openly scheduling subcommittee meetings between now and the next meeting recognizing we
also have the holidays in that in that gap. So the other thing that we >> those three are would you name again what those three? >> I think it was a drafting committee to look at the things that would be kind of going along as recommendations to the um council um or commission uh to be named
later. um a uh government structure and kind of the the housekeeping uh amendment committee and then a committee to get into the discussion on conservation and other potential um kind of um I think it addresses conservation but also some of the other specific
items that been brought up in the staff or in the discussions with the public. >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> Mr. Ryer. >> Sure. And if I could uh while I have the benefit of you here, if you have a preference for any of those three,
please feel free to voice that and let us know. Uh we can >> and that was going to be I'm going to ask if you have an interest in being on, you know, working with any of those specific subcommittees, if you'll email Mr. Booker so that we can get together with staff and work on populating those committees. I will work with them to do
that over the next week um so that we can get those formed and working in the near term. We got a sidebar with Mr. Brown here. >> I have a general request, Chair. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um I'm just going to request that in the
future meetings that we actually run down through the numbers even if there's nothing. Um, and hopefully that's the case on many, but uh I I would just say I would prefer that method that we did
in the last two meetings. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> So, um I appreciate that. I will say and I apologize to my fellow commissioners. This went completely different than I was expecting it to. Um you know, and and we uh we probably should have done that from the beginning. So, I
appreciate that input and and I think that's uh you're right that we we probably need to go through that in a little bit more structured format. Uh, I thought we might be able to kind of deal with some quickly, but uh, you know, I think the the page by page uh, probably is most effective going forward. All right, so we're going to work on
establishing those committees. Mr. Brown. >> Hey, Mr. Chair. Rush Brown, deputy county attorney. I don't mean to throw a wrench in here, but I think you may be creating a sunshine issue with the booker being the conduit. So, it would be better if you picked your committees in open form. However you want to do it,
like you come up with a list or people volunteer right now. you select the committees, you come back in January. Uh, but I think it needs to be done in the in the open of the sunshine. Otherwise, I just don't want to create a situation where Mr. Booker is a conduit between you and the in the >> I think we could do if if it's your
preference. I think you have the authority to appoint different members to these committees. If anybody has a preference for a particular committee, voice it now. >> All right, let me do that this way. Show of hands for somebody that's interested with for the drafting committee. May I
have a question? I'm a little confus helped me out with the drafting committee versus government structure committee. >> So drafting would be looking at the things that we've talked about not including in the charter and coming up with statements that would be part of our letter being transmitted to the commission letter of recommendation to
the council that accompanies the proposed charter amendments. >> The point was made that there was a a number of things that have been raised which we're not talking about as charter amendments but which we do think is important to communicate through. And so that was a great a group to work specifically on enunciating those
points. you know, government structure. >> Government structure would be looking at taking the the presentation we looked at this se or heard this evening. Looking at our current council configuration, you know, strong strong mayor, elected mayor, elected chair, you know, what we
want to do with that. And I think in that committee, you also have the housekeeping items within the charter. So the things that are the amendment 10 implementation, the pay, the council to commission change, things of that nature. Um I can go through and work
with staff and specifically put the put those things together. Um but that would be the committee that's doing that work. And then the other would be looking at more specifically the conservation and environmental protection issues and any other issues that have been raised by the public that um that we want to come back and and deal with a specific
amendment on. plan. Um, and how is it a a possible violation of the sunshine law if we do it directly to Brooker but not the rest of the rest of us? I don't think that I I might I have to respectfully disagree if we share with Mr. Booker
what our preference is because I might not know right now. I might make up my mind when I get home. >> Yeah, but I think Mr. Mr. Chair, I think it's when the chair now gets involved is when the conduit >> I think that's the point is me making
the the uh out, you know, assignments outside of the public. I think that's the concern. So, we can do one of two things. We've got three committees that we've talked about. We can appoint them now based on people's interests or we can do that as the first order of
business at the next meeting. It just pushes our work off a little bit. No, let's >> I I don't want to push anything off. I just >> Okay, Mr. Chair. >> Well, then go around the table and ask everybody what they want to do. Let's go. >> We're going. >> How do we not violate sunshine if we're
meeting in committees and have an official committees will be open >> public for sure. And they'll be >> we would have to notice them publicly and we would have to take minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, we're not going to violate >> by having the committees because we're going to operate completely in the sun.
Correct. The meetings have to be announced. >> I'm with Jim. >> If we if we're using that conduit, >> it would be my action and in appointing those committees outside of the meeting. That's the point that uh Mr. Brown's raising. It's not it's not the committee work. It's me taking that action and
coordinating with staff and making those selections outside of >> it's an indirect form of communication with another member of the commission that is not allowed under the sunshine. >> Correct. >> Okay. With that, Miss >> Okay. Uh so the drafting of the language for the amendments, the government
structure and the letter to the council all be one committee. Is that what we're saying? >> Drafting is a separate. >> Okay. >> So drafting is basically the the additional messaging that we want to go along >> getting it lumped in. Just making sure >> government structure is the second one >> and then looking at the environmental um
and conservation issues that have been raised and coming up with some recommendations based on that based on what we've developed >> plus other issues raised by the public. >> Correct. So, Missy, >> the government structure housekeeping is basically covering number one, >> all those cleanups from amendment 10.
>> I think it would cover number one. I think it would also cover uh I think you can include number two, number three, number four, >> number Let's see. Seven, eight, nine,
>> plus whatever else the subcommittee comes with. >> Yeah. I mean, those are the ones that are you kind of looking at the structure of government. That's our the whole discussion on personnel board and directors and everything else. So, I think that there's a lot of work in that committee clearly.
So, >> what are you going to do if everybody goes for one committee? You don't get any volunteers from the other. I'm gonna appoint people. [laughter] All right. So, let's start. Let's start where I think it'll probably be popular. Government structure. Show hands. One, two, three, four, five,
six, seven, eight. Well, that's the entire commission. >> All right. So, um, keep your hands up. >> Yeah. Keen. >> Yeah. All right. So, I'm not going to do this to offend anybody. I'm going to do it
based on who I think might have the experience and and background to to hopefully, you know, help with this section of the of the work. Mr. Saknowski, if I can ask you to be on that, hands back up. People that were interested in that. Mr. Parker,
Mr. Clayton, let's see how many we got three. >> This is for government structure. >> Yes. Okay. I think I'm gonna go with >> them. Right. >> I I I went to the to the structure first
because that Yeah. All right. So, um let's see. How many do we have there? One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. >> I can I can >> Yeah. Let me let me ask Miss Quiet to be on that. Mr. Johnson, Miss Bright, and
Miss Wheeler. I think that gives us seven. If you're good with that, Mr. Vice Chair, >> you got long as they >> I think we can make sure to do that. >> All right. >> And I'm sorry. Could you restate that one more time? Just make sure we have everybody.
>> So we have Mr. Sakenovski. >> Yep. >> Mr. Parker. >> Yep. >> Mr. Clayton. >> Yep. >> Miss Quiet. >> Uh Mr. Johnson, Miss Bright, and Miss Wheeler. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Um,
I think probably from the standpoint of interested parties working on things, the next one probably ought to we ought to talk about the environmental and uh kind of figured your hand would go up on that one. Um, Mr. Lewis, Miss Shber,
Miss Walford, Miss Nory, >> let me let me see where we go on this one. Nate, you good at Okay, Mr. Ingram? I think that gives us an odd number, right? One, two, three. >> Correct. We good with that? >> It's five.
>> That's five. >> All right. >> And then last, the drafting committee or let me ask this. Is the drafting committee something we can defer until we know what all of the messaging needs to be? >> I think we wait on the on putting
together a drafting committee until we because we may have more that comes out of this work. Yeah, I u that I think that's wise. I just would suggest asking staff to summarize the various because we've had many meetings, many deferrals to the some we need to have a document just anyway. So that's a staff function
that can be done by January in my view. >> We we can work on pulling all that together. Um and then I think from the standpoint >> and then appoint your committee. >> Yeah. Um, I think from the standpoint of organizing committees, it probably would make some sense for us to have a chair appointed uh at this meeting as well.
Mr. Parker on the first committee, could I ask you to chair that just based on your experience in government? Um, I think you're probably the most qualified person at this >> I think I think Jim is qualified to tell you whether you're right or wrong, but I think you [laughter]
>> All right. And then um I think just based on uh kind of experience of working through things u Miss Nory would you mind chairing the the other committees? Okay. So I will get with staff so that we can coordinate with each of the chair um person to um get
those meetings scheduled moving from here. I appreciate your willingness to work on that. Again I apologize for the meeting uh running the way that it did tonight. was going to be completely different in my mind, but this is sometimes a messy subject and a messy discussion to have when you're talking about these types of changes. So, all
right, >> good job. >> Thank you. So, we've talked really about getting into the organizational items, next steps. We've got committees um put together. Um my suggestion for coming back and dealing with agendas, we may or
may not have committees that have been able to meet by our next meeting. Um, I think let's um kind of play that by ear. If we've had committees that have met, then I think our next agenda will kind of put together some presentations from the committees on the work that they're doing and kind of plans to move forward.
Mr. Clayton, >> I have a question about um as as a practical matter, shouldn't we meet at the county administration building? If you're going to have to publish it and make sure we comply with the sunshine law that's instead of trying to do all this stuff we do here, wouldn't it be easier to set up in a conference room at the county administration building? I
it's your pleasure. I I would imagine Miriam might be appreciative of that if he sets up the >> I think we did committee meetings at the EOC um but it was at a it was at a in a conference room. Wasn't anything this elaborate.
>> Okay. >> So, but I think um we can work with staff to to schedule those either at the the uh county administration building or or some other convenient location. All right. >> Other business. Any other business from the commission? Is there a motion to
adjourn? >> Second. >> All right, we'll stand adjourned.