Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey,
hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey,
hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes. Happy
heat. Heat. Heat. High do it. Baby, baby. Yellow. Down. Baby,
hey. Here we are. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 2 minutes. Come on. Heat.
org and Carissa will get you all set up to to do that. This morning we have Rabbi Paul Faulk from the Ariel Congregation in Orange City. you would like to come forward and um please stand if you care to for the invocation and
the pledge may go king redeemer savior and shield father come before you first and foremost to just bless you for the opportunity to live in this place
there are so many things we get to enjoy joy that so few in the world in time past or even in a time that we're living in get to enjoy. We thank you that we live in this jewel of an incredible county and place where you've given us such incredible resources.
We come before you too in regard to this meeting and the agenda going forward. Um we thank you for those who stood up to serve the community who stand before us um awfully huge challenge. to give them the support, the wisdom, and strength
going forward for the decisions that need to be made as they serve um us as a community as they seek out what's best, as they seek um to care
and to bless your name. Amen. And amen. I pledge alsy for all. Carissa, would you call the role, please? >> Mr. Santiago, >> here. >> Mr. Dempsey, >> here. >> Mr. Johansson, >> here. >> Mr. Kent,
>> here. >> Mr. Reinhardt >> here. >> Mr. Robbins >> here. >> Mr. Brower >> here. So we have a a full disas and a quorum and we will go to uh public participation. When I call your name,
please come to the podium. There is a uh button on the left side of the podium that will allow it to go up and down. We need the the microphone. We would like the microphone right at your mouth so that it can be recorded and everybody can hear you. You will have three
minutes to talk about anything that pertains to uh Valuchia County that the council may be able to act on in the future. Uh we have a large audience listening in.
So, uh, if you would please keep your language, um, uh, acceptable to people of all ages, um, regardless of what's permitted to be said by our constitution, I just ask for
your cooperation and in respecting other people. Uh, and when you when you come up, please tell us uh, your name and where you're from. You don't have to give your complete address for uh public safety
reasons, but we would like to know where you're from so that your representative here in the dis knows u who you are, where you are. Uh first today is uh is Martha Underriner
and you will be followed by Lloyd Bowers. >> All right. Um good evening council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. Hey, I'm Martha Underiner. I'm a resident and the executive director of the Museum of Art Dand. I'm here to ask you today to
restore the arts funding that was previously approved in this year's budget and then unexpectedly removed. The funding was not a new request. It was planned for, promised, and relied upon. And when it was cut, it did not simply affect numbers on a spreadsheet.
It disrupted real programs, real jobs, and real people in our community. Organizations made commitments based on this allocation and contracts were signed, programs were planned and staff were hired. The damage from loss funding is not theoretical. It is immediate and
it is tangible. It erodess trust and creates instability in a sector that already operates with with razor thin margins. The arts employ educators, designers, technicians, and support staff. When funding disappears, local
jobs disappear. That loss ripples outward. Fewer visitors downtown, fewer meals purchased at local restaurants, fewer hotel stays, and less money circulating through our economy. Arts organizations also reduce pressure on county systems. They provide free youth
programming, senior services, free or lowcost cultural access for families who cannot afford private enrichment. When arts funding is cut, those costs do not vanish. They shift elsewhere. And these cuts fall hardest on those with the
fewest options, students, working families, small nonprofits, and underserved communities. Access to culture is not a luxury. It is an equity issue. And I also want to speak plainly about priorities. The council is considering a major investment in a
motocross facility. And I'm not here to criticize recreation spending, but I am here to ask and say that art deserves every bit as much respect, seriousness, and commitment as any large-scale entertainment or sports project. Arts
organizations already exist. They serve this community daily. They shape economic development, workforce retention, tourism, and civic identity. They are a part of what makes our county livable and competitive and restoring this funding is good for our county and
it's a matter of integrity. A commitment was made and organizations acted in good faith. I urge you to reinstate the arts funding as originally approved and to stand by the value of arts and culture in our community. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh Lloyd
Bowers, followed by Mary Dickinson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Lloyd Bowers, Daytona Beachside. Um, I feel like I should just say what she said and sit down, but I do have a couple things I'd like to say. I'm here today with a similar clear and urgent request. First,
for Councilman Dempsey to once again bring forward his motion to fund this year's cultural grants. and second for Chairman Brower to honor and implement the decision that was made by this council on February the 18th despite being the sole dissenting vote. On February the 18th, this council made a
decision to reformat the cultural grants and proceed to accept and award those grants. That decision was a promise. First to the artists, educators, and volunteers who give their time and talent. Second, to your cultural council, your appointees who did the
work you asked of us and accepted and re you reviewed the grants. Excuse me. But finally, uh, a promise to our residents who benefit from the work of these cultural organizations every day. These grants have never been an abstract number. They have been the lifeblood of
our county's creative and civic spirit. They keep our theaters vibrant, our museums open, our music playing, our festivals alive. And the decision to eliminate the funding in this current year has seriously impacted these organizations. Organizations that
inspire our children, unite our neighborhoods, and attract visitors. Without this year's funding, we risk losing not only programs, but our smaller cultural organizations and their ability to thrive. Councilman Dempsey, your leadership in raising this motion
to fund for the current year was a vital step towards that promise. I urge you to raise it again, not as a repeat of the past, but as a renewed commitment to the survival of these organizations who are suffering after having the rug literally pulled out from under them. Chairman
Brower, I respectfully ask you to adopt and implement the February 18 decision for this current year. Doing so will send a clear message that the council stands by its word and honors the commitment made. As many have already stated, every dollar invested in
cultural grants returns far more in community community benefit. But please, please, please, let's not allow this year to be remembered for what was lost, but rather how we came together to protect and preserve these cultural organizations
that make Valuchia County extraordinary. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Mary Dickinson. And Mary, you will be followed by Craig Upper. >> Thank you. I'm here to speak about the
Marsh Road catastrophe that Valuchia County has created in our neighborhood in destroying our roads, our homes, our property. And the fact for Marsh Road Dand Valuchia County the winding and hilling
nature in Valuchia County's planning and zoning documents Marsh Road is classified as a local collector road because it runs through the rolling terrain east of the land near the Lake George Tiger Bay area transition.
It is only officially recognized for its substandard geometry. The road features horizontal curves and vertical hills that do not meet modern federal or state standards for heavy truck sight
distance. This means a heavy truck cannot safely see far enough over a crest or around a bend to stop for a stationary car, a school bus or a pedestrian pavement condition. It was
hor historically constructed as a low volume road. This means it internal structure lacks the deep reinforced lime rock base and thick asphalt layers required to support the repetitive high
impact weight of industrial vehicles like logging trucks or dump trucks. The commercial ban Valuchia County Code 72-287. The most important legal tool for local
residents is Valuchia County Code section 72-287. While this ordinance is often called a parking rule, it is the primary law used to stop industrial through traffic in residential zones.
the full ordinance. Quote, "No truck, tractor, semi-tra, commercial bus, cutaway van, chassis, cab, truck, or any other truck with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10,500
lb as determined by the greater of the vehicle registration or the manufacturers. specification shall be parked or stored except while being actively loaded or unloaded for legitimate commercial
purpose in the residential and agriculture classifications. How this stops driving and through traffic. The active loading requirement under this law, a vehicle over 5.25 25
tons is only permitted in this zone if it has a specific commercial destination. >> Thank you, Mary. >> Your time's up. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Well, Valuchia County has
>> decided to sell dirt to other counties and they're running their dump trucks down our road. >> Thank you very much. Craig Upper and you will be followed by Daniel uh Krill Cryle Daniel.
>> Well, good afternoon, Chairman Brower and our council members here of Valuchia County. My name is Craig Upper. I have the wonderful pleasure of serving as the president for the Valuchia County Cultural Alliance. I am a proud member of District 1 uh resident. So, I'd like
to take a moment to thank each of you for your individual commitment to arts and culture here in Valuchia County. I can personally attest to the many many interactions I've had with several of you at our local theaters, art
festivals, gallery receptions, community events, and our school events. and especially um one of which uh was back in December at one of our school events where I saw just a wonderful spark of
joy uh in one of you uh and it was just wonderful time to spend time with you. Your presence at these spaces really does matter and it does not go unnoticed by our artists or patrons or families in attendance. I do understand that there
has been some discussion uh ongoing recently uh regarding the previously allocated dollars for arts and culture for the current fiscal year. And I want to share respectfully and transparently what the real-time impact of the
previous decision to withhold current and allocated dollar dollars already looks like. As expected, many of our nonprofit arts and culture organizations have begun to reduce services. So that means fewer programs, fewer free
and reduced cost opportunities, fewer free opportunities, and fewer experiences for our youths and families here in Valuchia County. And these are not hypothetical outcomes that I previously spoke about. They are
happening now. Children are losing access to arts learning. Seniors are losing access and points of connection. Organizations are being forced to make very difficult choices, specifically just to remain in operation and remain
open. And these reductions have directly affected your constituents. For more than three decades, as you know, Valuchia County has recognized that investing in arts and culture strengthens education, economic
activity, and the quality of life. I ask you to consider the impact of the continued uncertainty and to work forward to restoring stability and opportunity for the people we all serve, especially for the current fiscal year. As always, thank you for the opportunity
to be uh heard this afternoon and also is appreciated is your service, unwavering service to our community and beyond. Thank you. >> Thank you, Daniel. >> Thank you. My name is Danny Crowle. I
live in Daytona Beach. I've been a longtime resident of this area. uh and I'm here to speak uh with my friends on uh the support of the arts. I am going to take just a slightly different approach. Um I'm reminded of uh when I
began my teaching career in Valuchia County at Tedit Taylor High School in Pearson uh in the late 1970s. I was not from Pearson, but that's where I started working. And I was having a particular difficulty making a decision about a
project we working on. And one of my colleagues looked at me and said, "Danny, it's time to fish or cut bait." And I looked at him very quizzically because I had no idea what he was trying to tell me because I was not from that part of the country where I heard
expressions like that. I think he sensed that and he looked at me again and he tried again with a more colorful suggestion that I'd do something or get off the pot. Um, and finally he said, "Danny, it's time to make a decision.
You've been studying this. You've asked all the right questions. You've talked to all the right people. You have all the information. It's time to make a decision." And in all honesty, that's kind of the way I feel about where we are with these arts grants funding.
We've been coming, you know, in rather large numbers for not just weeks, but for months. uh we've presented the information, we've presented the viewpoints that people have shared, our patrons, our friends, uh and we've we've
made a case and yet we're still having to make the case. I I know this is a difficult decision for you gentlemen, but as was said, this was a decision that was partly made already. Um and it seems as though it's time to just finish
this process. please uh approve the grant funding that was all um submitted through the process that you agreed to and let's move on from there. Uh as my friends have said, we do thank you for your service. We
know this is not easy. We thank you for hearing us. Um and we will thank you even more when you've decided that yes, we're going to go ahead and fund these arts grants. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh Cameron
Cameron Vincent, not a new speaker here. >> I'm wearing boots today so I don't have to lower it. Good evening. My name is Cameron Benson. Um Port Orange, Florida. I am the executive director of Art House Foundation and I'm the vice president of
the Valuchia County Cultural Alliance. Um I'd like to thank you, chair, council, and staff for giving me the opportunity to speak today. As always, it's lovely to see you again. It's been too long. Before I begin, I'd like to note that several members of our Valuja County Cultural Alliance Executive Board
are missing. They are currently in Tallahassee, Florida right now for art day at the capital. and they are not only thanking our legislators for their continued support in arts and culture funding, but they're also working with them to come up with new and wonderful programming that at the state level can
help provide Valuchia County residents and tourists a wonderful experience when they come into our borders. As you probably figured, I'm here today to respectfully urge the council to release the approved 2026 cultural grant funding. These grants directly support
programs that serve county residents, children, family, seniors, artists, veterans, and underserved communities. They fund free public arts experiences, youth enrichment programs, downtown activations, and cultural events that enhance the quality of life and community connection. For many
residents, these grant-f funded programs represent the only accessible entry point to the arts. They provide safe, positive spaces for youth, support mental and emotional well-being, and bring people together across the neighborhood and generations. The economic benefits are equally
meaningful. We bring people into town. They stay for the festivals. They spend their money. That money goes in taxes to support and better Valuia County. These funds have already gone through the competitive review process. We can't even get the fund dispersements
if you approve unless we can show you what we've spent it on and it agrees and it matches with what we asked for. We can't spend it on something that we've not formally requested and been approved of. For cultural organizations, timing matters. Releasing these funds as
approved allows us to plan efficiently, operate responsibly, and deliver the services our residents expect and that they deserve. Valuja County has long recognized that the arts and culture are essential to a thriving, livable community. Releasing
the approved 2026 cultural grant funding reaffirms that a commitment for our Valuia County residents. On behalf of the organizations, the artists, the families, and the Valuia communities that we serve, I respectfully ask for you to move forward in releasing these
funds. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it and have a good evening. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh Dan uh Polar Per. >> Good afternoon, chair. Good afternoon, Councilman and staff.
I'm here today to talk a little bit about um a fire springer mandate. My name is Dan Poler. My wife and I are building a house here in Valuchia County and currently construction in of a three-story residence. Um, I'm here to raise concerns about a newly imposed requirement by Valuchia County Services
mandating full residential sprinkler system in a in a residential home solely because it's three stories. Despite the structure being clearly classified as a one or two family dwelling and I want to be clear on an important note that the fire prevention code, the Florida building code and the Florida statute
governing this issue have not changed. What is has changed is the interpretation being applied by the newly appointed Valuchia County Fire Marshal in 2024. I am recently retired Simino County Firefighter and I'm currently a state licensed fire inspector. I have spent my
career enforcing fire codes and protecting life safety and I fully support lawful and evidence-based fire safety measures. What I cannot report is the unlawful mandate that exceeds statutory authority. Under Florida statute 553895
section 2, the state of Florida expressly prohibits local governments from requiring fire sprinklers in a one or two family dwelling, including three-story standalone residents. Unless the local government has adopted a more stringent requirement by ordinance
following a very specific process required under section 633 208 section 8 and 9 Florida statute and Valuchia County has not adopted such ordinance. Despite this, we have been told that fire sprinklers are now required based
on an informal interpretation by the Florida Fire Marshals and Inspectors Association. That organization is not a regulatory authority and its interpretations are expressly non-binding, explicitly non-binding, sorry. Yet that informal opinion is being used as a sole
justification to impose a mandate that contradicts straight state law. The selective enforcement is also evident as a three-story home directly behind us on South Atlantic which is also under construction, was not required to install sprinkler system simply because
a permit was issued before the current fire marshall's appointment. Identical structure, different rules. We are advised by Valuchia County Fire Services and the County Legal Department that our only remedy was to file an appeal, which we did on June 20th, 2025,
only to have it rejected the same day on formatting grounds. We corrected the issue, refiled through our attorney on July 3rd, and on July 18th, we were told the appeal was recognized and would be scheduled. After a follow-up call from our attorney via a on August 1st, the
county legal department, we were informed that Valuchia County does not currently have a seated appeals board capable of hearing the appeals process. We were told the next possible meeting would be in November of 2025. We then and even then there was no
certainty of a quorum would exist. As a result, we lost over a month of appeals process that reality did not exist. >> Thank you. Your time is up, your points heard. >> Okay. I mean, only thing I we're just asking no special treatment, just to
follow the state law as as it's written. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Michelle uh Good afternoon everyone. and I hope you're having a good afternoon. Um, I'm Michelle. I am in New Smyrna Beach right now trying to get back into Port Orange.
Um, I am one of the unlucky ones that have worked at a hospital, have been terminated from a hospital because I've been injured by the Fiser vaccine, the CO 19 vaccine. And if anyone wants to look up my name, you Michelle u, and you can look it up. I've been on Governor DeSantis round table and I have
extensive blood work and documentation that I am injured and I'm also blessed because I have to see another specialist um because I have another issue coming up. It just the blessings just keep coming. Um Jeff, I want to thank you for
listening to me and caring about me because not too many people that serve in government, whether your city, whatever, they don't care about the constituents. more people are cared about, care about infrastructure, um,
roads, what have you. And I understand that's important, but we also have to care about the people that are left out on the streets after paying $20,000 for medications to stay alive. I've given up my savings, my 401ks, and then now to
the it's it sucks. Sorry, that you have to give up all your savings, living a good lifestyle, now having to live into housing that's through section 8 or HUD.
Although these opportunities are hard and rare to get into, they're limited where you can go. Most of them are they don't accept certain vouchers. They're in unsafe neighborhoods. The crime rate is high. The drugs are high. And it's
unsafe. Someone like me living al alone with my disabilities and my everything that I'm going through. I don't feel safe in some of these neighborhoods. There's not enough of these facilities to house people. And I know
that we have to work on crime and things like that, but we deserve better than that. I know there's people that get hard places or I can go to a senior living facility and live there um because I'm disabled. I'm allowed to live there before I'm 62.
I will do whatever I have to do. But for people, I have more of a heart for people that go through what I do now. When you go to places, they're not clean. It looks like a blind person painted the place. No one takes any pride in the building. It's dirty. It's not acceptable.
I just think we need to do a better job with the federal monies, the county monies that go into there and there needs to be more inspections because it looks horrible and it's pride. I don't want to live in a place like that, but I have no choice. This is what I'm resorted to. But I thank you for at
least letting me have to find a place, but I just ask for more places to be built for people like me in safer neighborhoods. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, John Nicholson.
John Nixon, Daytona Beachside. Carrying on with what she said, you guys offered or gave $1.8 million to the city of Daytona Beach to create an unsafe affordable housing units. It's unfortunate. She could have gone to a
very nice neighborhood if you had just put some uh regulations on the money you gave. They totally took that money, gave it to HUD housing, and now the cops are there every single day. So, she could
have used that affordable housing that the county provided, but it's an unsafe neighborhood because you didn't look at what you were doing. So, I ask you again to look at Clyde Morris Landing. Uh, secondly, have you been paying attention
to FDOT A1A? All right, it is a mess and only getting worse. All right, we are down to two trees in the five miles of beachside oceanfront. Two trees. They took out 200 and some odd and they left
us with two. They can't put any more back in in the core area because they're putting in signage for the crossing and you can't put a tree in front of a sign. So between ISB and uh university
there going to be thousands of signs that give direction that people are crossing the street. So we cannot have a very attractive core area for our tourism industry. So we've just screwed our tourism industry. They're also doing it on Peninsula by
the Coptic Church, that intersection. They've decided to put blockage in the street. So, they want to where the car is parked, it's a 10-ft wideway for cars to park their cars, they put a 14 foot
bump out. So, as you go down the street, that little yellow line in the middle now curves around the bumpout. It looks absolutely asinite. I'm asking you to pay attention because it's going to happen near you at one point or another.
And lastly, on the cultural arts, again, I asked Don, you were mentioning at the meeting uh the other day that you were thinking about bringing this back up. I hope you do realize what's the value that we're
putting into these buildings. We've put millions and millions of dollars in cultural arts buildings and nobody anticipated that we're going to pull the rug out. So, we'll have these buildings and not all the things that could be going on will go on. So, I'm asking you
on the 26th of November, put a ballot asking if Echko can use 10% for cultural arts. That will cover the $600,000 It's already coming out of budget
already. People are already paying this. You already know they want it. Please consider it. >> Norman Samper. >> Good afternoon, gentlemen, ladies. I also live on Marsh Road like the lady
Mary over here and I'm here to ask if maybe we can work on this problem that we have with the heavy traffic, not just the regular trucks, 18 winners, dump trucks, loggers, and
they're creating a big problem, the speeding, the noise. uh they're overweight tearing up the road of course like you said but also the fact that it's it's a country road and it was usually used by cyclists joggers you know you get down the
roadways and wines and horse farms and so on and so on but uh I'm just here to ask for your help to get this problem fixed it's dangerous people have gotten killed on that road cyclist and it's
just these guys found a way to cut around to Highway 11 and they're they're abusing the system. They're, you know, they don't care. It's not their homes right there. Their children playing out on the road.
So anyway, I ask for your help, guys. I would appreciate it. We get it fixed. All right. Thanks. >> Thank you, Kathy Thompson. You'll be followed by Morgan Denny. Kathy Thompson representing Daytona
Playhouse in Daytona Beach. Why are the arts important? First of all, it is an economic engine. Nonprofit and cultural organizations and audiences generated 1 151.7 billion dollar in economic
activity nationwide last year. That spending supports 2.6 million jobs and delivers 29 billion in tax revenue. But most importantly, local dollars stay local. performances spark restaurant
reservations, ride shares, and hotel bookings. Arts organizations employ across many job sectors in our community. We don't just hire artists. We hire electricians, plumbers, cleaners, pest control, landscapers.
Communities investing in culture, as a proven fact, rebound faster in a downturn than those that do not. Creativity is a top skill for 2025 and beyond. LinkedIn's 2025 skills analysis
shows that 70% of today's jobs will change by 2030. Creativity drives many of those new competent competencies from AI literacy to adaptive problem solving. Live performances is good medicine.
probably something you didn't know, but you step into a concert hall or you perform yourself, it doesn't just lift the spirit. It's actually been proven to measurably lower stress hormones, release dopamine, and boost social bonding chemicals.
Arts education builds strong, stronger students and communities. A study by the National Endowment for the Arts confirmed that children who engage in the arts earn higher GPA, attend school more regularly, and show
stronger emotional skills. STEM synergy. Creative thinking nurtured in art class boosts problem solving in math and science. Collaboration skills, and I know this personally, theater rehearsals teach conflict resolution and
shared leadership skills employers flag as too scarce. And civic engagement, students involved in the arts vote and volunteer at higher rates as adults. The arts are a cure cure for a
loneliness epidemic. In 2023, the US surgeon general called so social isolation a public health crisis. People who attend create the or create or create the arts significantly have higher feelings of belonging and trust
than those who do not. Culture revitalizes downtowns. cities from San Francisco to Jacksonville use cultural dis cultural districts. Oops, sorry. You know what I'm asking for. >> Thank you for your comments. Morgan
Denny, you will be followed by Diane Whiteacre. >> Morgan Denny, historic uh Mission City, New Surn Beach. Um, this first picture is um, it's not a very good one, but this first picture is a uh, it's a
picture of the pipe that the count that drains Mission City. Valuchia County had to replace it after the dump trucks hauling field dirt to Mr. Stitler's property caved it in three years ago. You can clearly see this ditch has to be threequarters of the way full before it
ever starts to flood. In heavy rain, Pioneer Trail is underwater on the curve. someone's going to die. You can't see it at night. Valuchia County has been informed of this and you can see by the scum line where water stands during
during rainy season breeding mosquitoes. Next, this is a second wash out. I've missed one here. Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Stitler has taken upon himself to
put these pipes and a lot of them in the public rideway. The first wash out after 3 days of rain about 4 and 12 in is is this here. Mr. Stitler's property is littered with these pipes restricting the water flow. And every time he does it, he gets another bite at the apple.
Next. All right, this is the second wash out about a month or so after the first one where they've added rock about two days of rain with three and a half inches of water and yet another bite at the apple and there's the fence across the public
right away. Next in the green highlight is the uh the public rideway. The arrows are what Mr. Stitler is proposing. And why would anyone ever push water three times the distance away from the natural flow
and and through four pieces of private property and allow the county to take the people's land to appease one man who was already flooding properties adjacent to him and has violated environmental and code enforcement and has done so for the past three years and continues to do
so. Next, this is the oath you all took. So far, the residents of Mission City have been failed miserably. This should never see a vacation hearing. And could we please get our meeting we have been requesting for the past three years. You can't fit three
years into three minutes. Then this is just 6 months. And with liberty and justice for all, please. It's time. You said so yourself. It's been long enough. That's all we're asking. Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments, Morgan. Diane Whiteacre. >> Hi, my name's Diane Whiteacre and I'm one of those people that Mr. Stitler has blocked the water from flowing properly and for three years since Hurricane Ian,
we have been to this courthouse. We've met with you in meetings. We've come to sit in here. It's frustrating. Another hurricane season is coming. FEMA flood insurance that we pay for will only replace
two times is what I've heard from the FEMA man. Well, I'm paying flood insurance, but there's this magical word called depreciation. So now you think you can rebuild your home, and you can't. I'm a widow. I had to go back to work. I've
rebuilt my home. Three years later, hurricane season approaches and I say, "Oh, please, let the county do something. This one man, Jake Stitler, has decided to close up this area where the water must flow."
I'm I'm not smart with all that, but it makes sense to me. Send the water out. You see trucks of dirt coming. I live not far from him, kind of around the corner. I see the dirt coming and filling it. At one meeting where we had we were led to here that land had been
filled in and we said, "Well, why can't the county dig it out?" Well, now we'd be going on property and we can't do that. We're just asking you that within 3 years, please, is there something you can do? Have a meeting with the environmental code of enforcement, road
and bridge, whatever it takes to please solve this problem. Other people, my neighbor's a widow. She's been through the same as I. Every piece of furniture, garbage. Every piece of clothing that was below three feet in
my closet. Soaked. The rainwateraters so dirty that garbage. After the hurricane, everything in the bottom of our kitchen cupboards had to go out. Soaked by filthy flame rainwater. Who knows could mix with sewer after the storm. Every
time we have a storm, we have the same situation where we're just holding our breath and praying it doesn't happen again. Please do something so that that water flows out and away from our neighborhood. That's all I have to say, but I thank
you and hope that this situation is important to your heart because we're just little people who live in the neighborhood, but it's really important to us. Thank you. Thank you uh for coming in. Kevin Suzinski.
Not even close. >> I teach high school, too. So, when my students see that name, they're like, "How do you say that?" Yeah. It's Seeswick. is it's Kevin Ceswick from uh I'm currently uh in Elimont Springs, Florida, but we're building in New SWA
Beach uh in the Silver Sands area and uh we were coming in to a lot of hiccups with our our building process because of the the permitting. Um our builder would come back to us with, "Well, you have to
add this, then you have to add this." We play we paid $12,000 to get rid of a turtle. Um, so that was the first hiccup. But the the new fire sprinkler system that they're requiring us to have, that's pushed the cost of our
house up even higher. Um, it is a threetory dwelling, but it's cinder block all three stories. So it and uh the first floor is not a living area, it's a garage pretty much. So, the two living areas is on the second and third
floor. So, we're trying to get it to where we don't have to to purchase those sprinklers. We live in Altimont Springs and when we built there in '95, they required us to get those sprinklers put in our our two-story home. Um then then
10 years later they did away with that requirement because we we met people and I meet a lot of people teaching schools. So they say, "Oh no, we didn't have to have those sprinklers." So we don't want to run into that same situation to where we're going to have to put them in. And then couple years down the road and they
say, "Well, you don't have to do that anymore." So asking you uh to try to revisit uh what Dan Polar was up here talking about. um getting that why do we have to have it if the state doesn't
require it? Um it could be something on on the part of did you have any major fires in New Simra Beach where it burnt down a three-story home because it didn't have sprinklers. There's a fire there's a
fire station not even a quarter mile down the street from where where our home's being built. Um, but uh, yeah, I don't want to be in the situation that Dan is to where he's having to go through appeal process already and he's
trying to get that that going. Um, we don't want to make it to that that where we have to do a appeal process and push back our our build date because we would like to move in, you know, within a year. So,
and uh, we uh, we're going to have to do something. And I'm not sure if we have to cut somewhere else to put those fire sprinklers in, but uh yeah, just to have it, you know, to where we're we are
supposed to have that where maybe we don't need it. So, thank you for listening to me and uh have a good evening. >> Thank you for coming in. Samuel Oatley. Uh hello uh members of the Valuchia
County Council and staff. Uh my name is Samuel Oley and I am from Orman Beach. Uh I have been a resident there for 26 years and have experienced uh the many wonders of our county. Much of these positive experiences came from the local
art groups that have been pillars of our county culture for several years. Indeed, these groups were what largely inspired me to pursue my own artistic career and creative writing. The recent discussion about whether these groups should receive county funding has concerned me greatly as many of these
groups have provided wonderful experiences for both myself and others in the county. Uh I'm sure everyone on the uh council have gotten long letters and emails giving extremely detailed arguments about why the arts funding should be
continued. So I am not going to regurgitate those discussion points here. Instead, I'm going to give three brief examples of some of my positive experiences with these groups. Example one, the Cinematic Theater in
Daytona Beach, where when I was a teenager, my family would watch multiple movies from multiple different directors and creators and would often spark many wonderful conversations about art, politics, and culture in general. I
particularly have a fondness for the cinematic because it actually reignited my love for jazz music when they showed the seminal documentary Jazz on a summer's day. Example two, the Atlantic Center for the Arts in New Smyrna Beach,
which was a haven for me and my fellow writers who went there to perfect our craft and get to expand our wings artistically. Many of my professional artists, friends, and family have attended there, not just over the last
few years, but over several decades. Final example, the Pioneer Settlement in Barberville, whose recreation of pioneer Fidian life inspired me to learn more about that era of Florida's history and research the lost art of candle making
as many talented local artisans demonstrated that craft there. Those are just a few of the ways that these cultural groups have touched my life. I could give more examples, but I believe these instances prove the point well enough. These art groups have promoted
artistic and personal growth, not just within me, but multiple residents of Valuchia County. I hope that you take these experiences into account during any further discussions of arts and cultural funding and that we work toward providing many more of these positive
experiences to our fellow county residents, our visiting tourists, and everybody in the present and in the future. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ellen Wintermouth.
Ellen Windermouth. I live in Orange City and I'm a board member of Cinematic of Daytona, celebrating 35 years this year. I'm going to just reiterate what you already know. Without the arts and culture from nonprofit organizations such as ours,
communities lose crucial spaces for connection, identity, learning, and healing, among other se significant economic and educational benefits to the community. The gap is not just in entertainment
options, but in social cohesion, neighborhood vitality, and the emotional health of the residents of the Via County area. We see loss of connection and belonging when we're not there. There's an erosion
of community identity. The nonprofit arts organizations, as you've heard throughout the day, often act as custodians of local stories, heritage, and underrepresented voices. And without them, a community's unique cultural identity becomes less visible and much
more fragile. There's fewer opportunities for learning and youth development. So many of our our great nonprofit pro uh partners supply these in spades. There's a decline in emotional and
mental well-being. It's well documented. Regular engagement with the arts has shown to reduce stress, support coping with trauma, improve overall well-being. And when these offerings disappear, the
lowcost support fades too. The community loses shared emotional release valves like films, concerts, performances that help people process the hard times together. And Lord knows we're going through some hard times.
its economic and neighborhood impacts. You know, nonprofit arts and and culture generate billions in economic activity and support millions of jobs. Losing events and venues means less revenue for nearby restaurants, shops,
local workers. I'd like to think that we contributed to Little Italy two doors down from us who are going to move three miles away because they want to triple the size of their business. Our patrons went there.
Neighborhoods see reduced vibrancy and livability when arts and spaces and programming decline. or an organization like a small nonprofit like Cinematic. This translates into fewer places for thoughtful film, fewer conversations
that build empathy, and fewer reasons for people to come downtown and feel proud of their community. I urge you to restore the funding. And actually, if you read my email last month, I urge you to increase the
funding. It's not enough. >> Thank you for your comments. Wendy Anderson. Good afternoon. My name is Wendy Anderson. I live in Dand in district 1 and um and I am going to ask Mr. Dempsey, Councilman Dempsey, if you will
reintroduce the motion to um to fund the culture and art grants. Um, I am one of my most cherished friends. Um, is one of your most vocal um, uh, opponents of funding the arts and I've heard him tell
me over and over again why we should not be using public dollars to fund private organizations. Um, he himself is a donor to these organizations and he himself is currently as we speak um, in New York City visiting museums and theater on his
own dime. But I am an ecosystem ecologist and I think about the connections among things and some of the things I've been learning about recently are um were from visiting Daytona State Colleg's Falcon Hope Center where I learned about the ecosystem of funding
from both private and public organizations to make sure that atrisisk students have enough clothing and food and other resources to be able to get through school to earn the degrees that they need to have good jobs. I've learned about the EHEA program to help
elderly folks in our community um get assistance to pay their utility bills. I learned about that from the community services desk at the the MLK event yesterday at Earl Brown Park. I know that we have public private partnerships
that fund sporting events and sporting facilities and we value all of these public and private um partnerships throughout our county. and we fund them regularly. Why would we stop funding arts organizations?
They are not depending 100% on public funding, but this funding from the county, as so many people have already explained, really do help them level up to reach parts of our community that absolutely need and benefit from the
arts. We need this. Everybody has skin in the game. Even people who don't participate directly in the arts have skin in the game for the benefits of the arts. I don't mind paying my $1 per per year to fund the
arts. And I think there are probably very few people in this county who do. So I ask you, do not rely on echo funding to fund operational and programmatic um events for the arts. Echo is for bricks and mortar.
Apparently, it's for purchasing land as well. It is not for programming. I ask you to put it back in the operational budget, fund it for last year, fund it for next year, fund it for all future years. But, Don, I ask you to bring it back to the table. Thank you.
>> Thank you very much. And that concludes the uh public comments for the opening. U we'll have another chance at the end of the meeting. And on each item takes us to item one, approval of the agenda. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda as written?
>> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> We have a motion to approve by Troy Kent and a second by Vice Chair Matt Ryan Hart. Any questions? Uh, Councilman Robbins. >> Nothing, Chair. I was just waiting for Senate.
>> Okay. Uh, any discussion? All in favor of approving the agenda as uh written, please say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Agenda is approved. 720 to zero. Um
consent agenda item two. Does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote? Let's do that one first. Uh Councilman Robbins. Item I uh for a vote chairman and uh uh staff to highlight
item S&T and T just for uh discussion. >> I for vote S&T to discuss. I would like to pull item uh X for a vote. And I'm sorry Troy Kent. I didn't >> don't need to apologize chair. Not not a problem at all. Um I too wanted item I
pulled for a vote, but I want to just briefly after we vote talk about item K. just comments on item K and >> K for discussion. So we have uh pulled item uh X and I. Um
so let's vote on the rest of the cons. >> I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda absent items I and X. Second. >> Motion is made uh by Councilman Kent, second by uh Vice Chair
Reinhardt. Any other discussion? All in favor of pro of approving the consent agenda uh less item I and X please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And consent agenda is
approved as stated 7 to zero. Let's uh start with the with those for discussion. Uh first um item Sure. SCT, Donna Butler, Office of Recover and Resiliency, Transform 386, and Ben
Bartlett, public works director. Happy to answer any questions. Do you just want to highlight a >> I just want a brief overview just so uh the people uh in in district three know there were some folks here from uh in that Pioneer Trail uh area that that
some of this could be helpful uh to them for special work and in conjunction with the city. >> Item S is a task assignment with Half and Associates for New Beach's second phase phase two of their storm water master plan. So, it's really significant
for them and we're really looking forward to getting the results of that. But the project itself in New Simra Beach is for the Corbin Park area and it's a very large project. You can probably talk to it better, but I would guess it's probably they're not here.
So, um it's a fairly large project. Uh 4.9 million do $6.9 million. two million of that will be coming from Oh, you haven't switched to item T. Uh two million coming from the city of New Simra Beach and 4.9 coming from our
program. Uh they had actually uh proposed in their grant application that it would come in higher. This is the first time in a long time that something's come in lower. So, we're very excited. So, we took the appropriate percentages um that they provided in their grant application and applied it. So, it's a win-win for us.
But if you want to talk about the project, >> Ben, if you could just tell us what we can expect uh down there. >> Yeah, Corbin Park area. This is a a great project by the city. They actually went ahead and did the design and permitting on their own. Um it was uh
one of the first projects that was ready to go. Um to Donna's point, it did come in under budget. We will be coming back to you with another contract for some CI work. This is a long-term project, but it is storm water improvements in the Corbin Park neighborhood to improve uh
drainage, uh add in new new uh conveyance systems and swelles, and it really it's it's a it's a great project because it involves both areas within the city of New Simra Beach and in the unincorporated areas. So, it benefits um both agencies in that sense. And we're
really happy to get this one going. >> Thank you, Ben. Thank you, Donna. you know, uh if if folks have uh picked up on it the last few meetings, uh some of these projects and storm water master plans and uh basin studies been coming out. So, definitely pay attention to throughout the county. Uh we received
your list. Um thank you for your your hard work and and tackling this. It's a great uh undertaking. So, >> don't go away. >> First construction project coming before you for award. Um we I I want to let you know that it took nine months. They had the design ready and I I told this uh to
the team at the storm water meeting today. Took nine months to get the environmental review complete. I just want you to know that we're not going slow. But you know with federal dollars comes some strings and it takes us a little while. We are doing everything we can to shrink that time frame. But because it's a large project, it takes a
lot of work. They're making us cross every tea and dot every eye. And that's using a consultant that knows what they're doing. So we'll keep pushing and get as many in front of you as possible. And just one last thing because I I saw some emails roll in about it. Ben, can you just briefly 30 seconds or less, the
need uh because none of us like studies, right? Um can you explain why these studies um in in in these cases have to be completed uh for these projects? Yeah, actually um we had a great discussion about that at the
subcommittee today and and I uh some of the studies are coming due and I show that basically with the modeling we can show where the areas that flood and inundate we match that to what we saw during the storms and then you use that model and you come up with a solution. You put that solution into the model and
you see if it actually works. You see if it reduces uh the flood stage and the example I used was in Norman Beach. We've got that study almost finished and they got it to a point where they could show me the the different flood stages with the with the the solution uh implemented and it took uh during a
100red-year storm event it took an area where there was 19 homes that flooded and took it to zero. And then they also cost it out and they show you how much it would cost compared to the to the to the flooding impacts and that gets you your cost benefit analysis which is important for these types of grants. And
so it's really a way of kind of fleshing out what solutions work, what solutions don't. So we're pursuing projects that are cost-effective and effect effective in terms of lowering the flood stage and reducing flooding in structures. >> And a lot of these these uh requirements
too, do do some of these grants require that study to be updated in order to capture that grant? Well, what they require is those costbenefit analysis to determine whether or not they're they're feasible, especially whether it's federal dollars or even if you're going for other grants. They were you got to be able to show that those things uh
will actually work and save money. Um but also it allows us to when we get all these projects in, it will allow us to compare them and to determine the efficiency or effectiveness of those projects and their impact on the different areas. >> Thank you, Ben. Good job.
>> Yes, sir. Um before you all go, uh Councilman Santiago has a question. >> No question, just comment. >> Okay, just a comment. >> Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I just thank Danny, thanks for drilling down on on this subject and Ben and Donna, thanks for the detailed. I thought it
was very detailed because, you know, we often get accused of nothing happening up here. This is just one of several projects that have been going on throughout the county and more to come. So while while some may hear out there in social fake world, there's a lot happening in the real world here with this council and the staff and this
leadership team. So we we're we're doing a lot of projects and thank you for also explaining that the process is somewhat tedious, but you have to cross a lot of tees and a lot dot a lot of eyes in order to do it the right way. So thank you. Thank you, Danny. >> Okay. And before we move on to uh item
I, we had two members of the public that wanted to speak on the consent agenda. One of them is Dr. Anderson at X, but I've pulled X, so you'll be Is she there? But you'll be able to speak then. Okay. Uh, John Nicholson, I'm sorry I missed you. I think you wanted to speak
on H, which has already been voted on. I hope it went your way, but if you'd like to speak on it, um John Non Beachside. Normally I like to speak on it before you vote. It makes it a lot easier. Um on age, the ocean
center gets its funding from taxes on the hotel. As you know, it's a 6% specifically, three of which goes to the Ocean Center and three goes for advertisement, the CBB. Now, you're taking money
from the hotels and are you giving it to the libraries? Isn't that mixing apples and oranges? All right. Uh secondly, I I absolutely don't want you to toss it out and throw it away. All right. which we have done
in the past at the airport at the votran etc. But if you're going to give it to the libraries it's as far what I'm thinking it's not the echo gallery that went around the outside. It's the art that is being put
on the inside which is huge. All right. That alleyway between the two buildings, the old one and the new one is what, 60, 50 sto uh feet high like this, maybe a little bit higher.
So, the artwork that goes in there is not going to go well in a one-story building. It won't even fit in a one-story building. So, I've only been to four or five of the libraries that the county owns. Only
the city of Daytona Beach has a lobby that one of those six artworks would fit because it has a high enough ceiling, but you wouldn't want to put it there because you wouldn't want people ducking under it as they walk past. All right,
it's that big. So, it's just another thing that tells the public about your value of art, your value of culture. What are we doing here? It's just I know
you you want to reuse and rather than throwing it away, but I would ask you again to look at it and if it doesn't fit in the libraries, where are you going to put it? Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Um, that
takes us to item I Oh, I'm sorry, Jake. You just popped up. Is that on on uh >> S&T still? >> Okay. Um, I was going to wait till uh council comments, but since we're talking about
uh storm water, we did have a subcommittee meeting today and um uh there's some things that that uh Michael Ryan and um Ben and and to a lesser extent in this program that that Donna
are doing to share to David Santiago's point that that share what we're doing out in the public and I encourage all of you to uh to repeat those on your social media platforms to get out the information that the county is doing.
When I say the county, Ben's putting out the information, but it's geographic county. He's collecting um all the info uh and and and it's important that we get it out to let people know what we are doing here in the county in the
cities to uh to combat uh flooding. Uh and there's some great things happening uh software-wise, hardware wise and maintenance- wise. So all those things are getting put out in various uh aundary of uh informations. So, just
want to put that out. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Item I and item X were uh set apart for a vote. Um here's how we will we'll do them. We'll discuss who
>> I believe item K was also >> was up for discussion. Okay. Troy, was that you? >> It was me, Chairman. Yes. and um chief and and finance, you don't need to come down for it. I just wanted to pull this
because sometimes things items like this can get lost in the shuffle and our residents don't know that we we just spent $585,920 on a tanker truck for um I believe northwest Valuchia County that holds
3,000 gallons of water. And I just wanted to compliment our fire chief in not only um making sure that we have the correct apparatus needed to protect our our residents, but also piggybacking with
other communities so that we could get this tanker like now and we don't have to wait for it to be ordered and built and all of that. So, you know, sometimes people want to want to beat the county up about this huge budget, but sometimes you have to buy pieces of equipment that
are just under $600,000 to take care of your residents in Valuchia County. Thank you, chairman. >> You're welcome. Um, thanks for bringing that up. Uh, item I and X for a vote. Uh we'll have
staff come up and give us a brief synopsis of the vote and then the council can ask any questions that they have and then we'll have public uh comments afterwards and then the council can discuss it and just like any other item. So item I
>> Yes, sir. Um Brad Burbal, community services director. So in 2014, the county provided a grant for $400,000 to the Halifax Humane Society. Uh the grant had two components to it. One was a a pet services building which was um
described as a a recreational rest area for dogs um and providing services for people who may be traveling and locals and a public dog park. So what you have before you today is a proposal that the staff has worked on with Halifax Humane
Society who was proactive in reaching out their new CEO and telling us that they he believed they would or they were out of compliance. We went out and they were certainly out of compliance with what they were using the building for. Um they made another proposal to use the
building for another use and staff um and our legal team said, "No, this is not an echo use. it didn't fall in one of the EC or O categories. So, what what we have before you is um they'd like to keep the public dog park component of
the uh the grant and operate it. I did pull the data and it averages about 29 20 30,000 visits per year in their annual reports to Echo. So, it is a very busy dog park. Um, the closest dog park uh to that is in Holly Hill, five miles,
and the second closest is 6.5 miles away. So, it is a dog park that's open to the public. Interestingly, and I don't think I've seen this anywhere on Google reviews, it received a 4.7 out of five stars with 250 reviews. So, people
like the park. Um what's being proposed is that they pay us back for the full portion of the building which is 186,539. They've committed to um reinvesting in the dog park um to the tune of I believe over $30,000
and um continuing to operate it through 20 204 as stated in the restrictive covenant. >> Okay. Thank you very much for uh questions for staff. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chairman. Brad, thank you uh for the that that synopsis there. Um,
real quick, I know you had mentioned they were proactive in reaching out. How long were they out of compliance for how many years? >> So, I will say that the the last So, it's our last compliance visit. Um, so it had been within less than three years.
>> So, is it is it three years? Is it two years? So, >> I can find out. I'll pull the data for you >> because what I'm what I'm looking for here and I I see >> a little bit >> August of 2023 we went out and they were in compliance. >> Okay. I see a little bit of a pattern.
And I was just a couple things wondering why this wasn't on the standard agenda cuz I saw we had some other echo compliance issues but also too um what are we doing in the fact of of going forward uh just to maintain the um I guess continuity of this this this
program >> uh which is a great program. How are we uh adjusting our checks and balances so um we can get these folks to stay in compliance and then two most probably most importantly is keep our uh make our residents whole. It's their tax dollars.
>> Well, I think that our compliance program is working because the everything that we've brought back to you um since I've been in this seat has been full reimbursement of the taxpayers. So um we have a compliance regime. So typically during construction
of the project, our team visits two times per year, actual site visits. During the monitoring process, so after they are um after they've complete construction, we enter them into a formal three-year monitoring process. So
I say formal because when we go when our team goes out to do compliance checks let's say if they go to the humane society for their formalized check which they notice the people the CEO will meet with us or the president of the board will meet with us on site and we'll do
you know kind of a walk through however we will also visits visit projects on the way to that site for informal visits and projects surrounding that site. So in addition to formal visits, we're doing informal checks on the projects as well. So that's an additional thing that
we've added to checks and balances. I will say this is on the the consent agenda uh because staff negotiated that with the humane society. They initially wanted to pay us back over installments, several installments like Lake City did.
Um, but we had promised them to put it on the consent agenda in hopes that it wouldn't be pulled if they paid us the full amount by March 1st. Oh, >> I want to make sure because and and I'm hitting on this for a reason. Um, is is
compliance. So, they were out of compliance for up to three years possibly. Uh, they proactively came a uh came forward kind of turned themselves in. So, I I see a gap there. I want to know I want to know um I'm not going to
get into the things why it seems like we're we're on it now. Um I want our people whole. >> I want this money uh back in in the program. >> Yes, sir. >> And I see 180k out of the 400k uh is going to be paid back.
>> What's their due date? How do we enforce it? And then how are we going to get our money back and hold them hold them to the coals just like everybody else? Nothing personal. So we would have found it our so if we went out in August 2023 and they were in compliance that means we would have been back out in August 2026. So we would have found it in
August but they reached out to us in 25. So within our you know and that is a requirement of the grant. We're thankful when individuals do that. It is part of their agreement that when they are not in compliance with the scope they are supposed to reach out. So when we show up at a place and there's compliance issues that we didn't know about it's
already starting on a bad foot with us. So instead of that three years, Brad, can we shrink that to yearly? Is that what you're trying to >> Well, we have 300. >> I would need I would need to weigh in on that. Okay. >> Because then then we're getting into more costs. So we could come back with
we have a compliance system that you guys have approved. If you guys would like that, that's something we could talk about. But that's going to start meaning more people. So more people's more cost. And I, you know, it's something we'll have to talk about going in the budget season. and and my only question, George, to that and follow up
and then I'll I'll be quiet, but we see more costs on that, but we're we're we're losing on this end. So, possibly by them not being into compliance and then us having to chase this money back down and recapture what was already ours. So, how do we how do
we avoid this? What's the easiest way to do it? That's what I and I'll wait for council to weigh in um on a on a plan going forward. That way, we can tighten this up a little bit. Okay. Um, Councilman Santiago for a question. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Good. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, Brad, my my my question inquiry lies more in the remaining funds and the dog park that they've agreed to do. You gave some numbers on. >> Um, my understanding is that humane Halifax Humane Society's gone through a
lot of changes recently in their structure. Um, and who is actually going to be utilizing this dog park? I don't know the dynamics of it. Is it like I don't know if they're a membership driven only. >> It's free public access. It's a free dog park for public the public.
>> And we do know that people from outside are going there. >> Yes. 30,000 a year. >> Okay. All right. Just want to make sure. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, and county manager George Rectal, I just would just ask, uh, can you refresh the council's memory? I I
think Danny makes a really good point. We shouldn't go three years and find out that I mean, we've got several clawbacks on the uh on the agenda today. What is the current policy? How often do we follow up once we give somebody money? >> He just gave it to you. Three years.
three years once the project is complete and during project construction two times. Now they are required to submit an annual report and in that annual report has there been any we ask them has there been any changes to the scope of services you've agreed to. So each year they're they're attesting that they
are still providing those services. So if they if they answer otherwise it's a trigger for staff to go out as well. The other like he also mentioned is when we're in uh in route to other areas they make he called informal I would have called spot checks. Y so the three years
are the formal checks and then in between as they're traveling through they make other spot checks because that we just don't have an exact number because it's dependent on when they're traveling through there. >> So and and we are we have 302 projects now. So that's 100 projects a year that
we're doing the compliance monitoring on. >> Would more frequent inspections maybe have prevented the uh clawback from the two two houses that we're looking at today. >> I don't think so. I mean
I I would have >> Well, you've been working with those all along. So that that's different situation. We've known about those situations. He's been working with them and trying to get them into compliance. So that's that's a different issue.
>> Okay. Councilman Johansson >> and Brian, a couple questions. Um >> when when's the last time they had a u a leadership change? >> 20 months ago. >> Executive director. When when did we when did they tell us that they were not
in compliance? >> As soon as he got hired. >> Okay. So So there's the nexus, right? guy got hired, wanted to clean out, make things right. He's made some operational changes that we're well aware of, and he
probably took a look at all his programs and said, "We're we're out of we're out of compliance here. We need to say something." So, uh, good good on good on them for for announcing. Um, and and he wants to make it right. What
what I guess I'm saying is, uh, maybe in the past they were struggling to survive and that was the thing, right? Somebody else's money is easy to let let go when you're trying to survive. So, um I I appreciate what they
did and and I think uh uh whether we go forward or not, um this is this is one of what we have three of how many? >> 302. >> Three of 302. However many there are. me 320 got
not that it's a good good average but we can't there comes a point of no return for miss risk mitigation and I want to make sure that we're not spending double the amount of money to make sure there are
no lapses in in uh in echo compliance um uh I I defer to you in my case if three years is enough with spot checks that's fine but but we can't catch anything all the time. I just appreciate it that this uh
executive director noticed there was a problem and announced it right away. So, thanks for that. >> Yes. And and is it's incumbent upon them during the annual report and a requirement of their agreement to report any changes in scope of services provided as well. But there's no there's
there's no um there's no punishment for not reporting other than they're not in compliance and and you put them on double secret probation, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Chair. I just want to make sure and just piggybacking off of Mr.
Johansson real quick. So, we're going pretty much on a on a on a pinky promise when they send in the reports. Hey, we're in I'm not trying to be a joker, but hey, I swear, you know, it's we're in compliance. What happens if they fib, which could have possibly happened. What are our protections?
>> Well, we Well, we will find out when we do the three-year check if they fibbed. And that I will tell you and I and I've shared with you that kind of determines whether our approach is hard or soft with them. If we're develop we're finding stuff that's three years old, that's a problem for us. And so
we're much more strict on timelines and getting us a plan uh as to what their plan will be for remediation um as using the restrictive covenants as a stick to say we will force you to sell the asset if you uh do not comply in a timely
manner. So there are things that we do at the staff level to ensure that people take us seriously. Now, if they're lying on an annual report, I don't think we can prosecute them for that. But I'm not an attorney. So, um, but this is a good
faith partnership that we've partnered with these people, and the expectation is that they operate in good faith with us. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> And that brings in attorney Michael Dyer. >> Thank you. Oh, and Miss Mr. Johansson
just stepped out. Um, what Brad is describing are the current rules of the program. If you want to change those rules going forward for future projects, like have a penalty if someone non-complies
or some other provision. You couldn't apply that now on a project that's already recorded, but you could do it for future awards. I think that's a discussion. That's a discussion you can have. You set those rules. Correct. Thank you.
Okay, let me uh read what the proposed motion needs to be. Um a 186,539 lumpsum payment due by March 1st, 2026.
Uh Halifan HHS ineligibil ineligibility for echo funding until repayment is complete. continued operation of the public dog park through May 13, 204, and completion of remediation items, trail
restoration, signage updates, stage structure repairs, and waste receptacle replacement by spring 2026. HHS must also maintain permanent echo signage and all maintenance standards specified in
the grant agreement. Would anybody like to make that motion? Uh, Councilman Troy K. >> I I have one question if that's okay, Chairman. >> Okay. >> Um, Dr. Burbal, during the three-year inspection period,
if a violation is found, does it trigger a more aggressive inspection going forward? our posture is different when we when we find stuff on our own and it's not reported by the grantee. >> Okay. What is what does that look like? >> So, we're much more strict in terms of
the condensed timeline that they have to provide a plan for us for remediation. Um, we also in that first letter um discuss the restrictive covenant and what our legal options are in terms of enforcement uh to help them sit up
straight and understand that we're being serious. >> Thank you. Okay, any other discussion? And we still don't have a motion to uh approve the uh
lumpsum payment. And if if we if we don't approve this, chairman, I I'll I'll go ahead and start with the motion because I had a a conversation with Dr. Burbball earlier today. Um I I was pleased to hear the
numbers of people attending uh the dog park there at the Halifax Humane Society. Um but I am going to make the motion so we can get the 186,000 plus dollars back. So I'll make that motion. >> I'll I'll second that. Chair. >> Okay. The motion comes from uh
Councilman Kent, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any other discussion on the motion on the floor? Then all in favor say I. I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And
item I is approved seven to zero. And that takes us uh to item X on the consent agenda. And this is really for
uhformational purposes, but we do also need to vote on the uh the letter that the county attorney has proposed. >> Yes. Uh Mr. Chair, thanks for pulling this for discussion. I have Chris Ryan here and Ginger Dar is here to give some
background information. you had asked as a council to take a position at your last meeting on uh Senate Bill 718 and House Bill 479. They were identical at that time. >> Uh it's the large water preeemption
bill. Um much of water issues general statement. Much when it when it comes to water is preempted by the state. Um but this made it worse. There's more preemptions. And
so these two bills now no longer match. Um the uh House bill was amended recently to uh be more favorable, but it still preemps.
And uh Mr. Darren and Chris wanted to give you an update on that because the letter that was attached to this agenda was to oppose the bills but they matched at the time. So if it's okay if Mr. Ryan, Mr. Derek could just give some
information to council. We'll go from there. >> Good evening, council. Chris Ryan, assistant county attorney. As Mike mentioned, um back back in uh December 3rd, both these bills were filed with the states. At the time, they're identical. Um, since then 479 was
referred to a committee on the 13th of this month. Uh, it was rep it was replaced with committee substitute that essentially did away with the entirety of the original bill and now has a different level of preeemption. As Mike mentioned, it's much closer to what we would like to see if we see any preeemption. Obviously, we don't care
for them, but it's much more palatable than what's in 718. Now that bill removed the prov the provisions preempting regulation of water quality, quantity, pollution control, pollution discharge prevention and removal and wetlands to the states. It does allow um
well it disallows government to regulates um wetland buffers within uh pardon me greater than uh 15 ft from uh different from different locations from various locations, pardon me. uh 479, the one that was amended, has now been reported to its second
committee, whereas 718 still has no upward traction. It hasn't gone to a single committee yet. That doesn't mean it won't. The assessment is still early. We have until the end of March. Um but it looks like 479 is primed to make a little more motion and there the vote to amend it was 11 to 5. So there was a
decent amount of people who voted toward amending it to be less preemptive. So I'm here to speak on anything regarding the legislative process if you'd like. >> Mr. Chair, if I could, Mr. Derek can give us some background on how this would impact Felia County. >> Good afternoon. Ginger Adair,
environmental management director. Um just a little primer on our wetland code and our wetland buffers as it relates to this um new bill, particularly the change to 479. Um our comprehensive plan and our chapter 50 minimum standards and
our chapter 72 land development code all have wetland buffer standards in excess of what the state standard is right now. Currently the state standard is a 15 foot minimum and a 25 foot average from a wetland. So from me to you is the
buffer. Um in our code the minimum is 25 ft on all wetlands and in certain areas where prior councils have determined that we have um you know really um high quality habitat we require a minimum of
a 50ft buffer. So those areas would include your natural resource management areas and your environmental core overlay which is also sort of coincident with much of the wildlife corridor and then anything adjacent to an outstanding
Florida water. So our code says in those areas the wetland buffer is a minimum of 50 feet. it can be increased based on the site conditions and we have in some cases where we have like OFWs and maybe there's a a habitat um a streamside
habitat protection zone have increased those minimums. So I just wanted you to know what we have currently and how that differs from the state when you're making a determination if you want to continue to object to the the committee substitute.
>> So Mr. there with the changes to House Bill 479 and the impact to or preeemption on regulation of activities of well-in buffers. If that were adopted, how would that impact what we have on the books today?
>> So, there are multiple places in the comprehensive plan that refer to buffers that are in excess of those state requirements. So, those comprehensive plan policies would have to change. That includes our future land use element. Our um Ostein local plan has buffers that are higher than the state. The um
the Farmington local plan, our conservation element, all of those have um requirements that are or policies that have increased buffers. And then we would have to make a significant number of changes to our land development code. So the letter that's attached to this
agenda item was originally um based on feedback from council was opposing these two bills. One question we had and reason why Mr. Dar was here was would we re would your
staff recommend that you oppose both even the bill um and I always get it backwards 479 excuse me that it has a smaller preeemption but still preempts and I think the answer uh if you have any
questions miss can say that they would your staff would recommend opposition to both >> okay that's important to know Uh, we have two PE. Are these questions for
staff? Jake. Okay. Jake Johansson. >> Ginger, real quick. And what what's the science behind our our buffer requirements, the 50 and the 25? Why why 50? >> Um, yeah, that's a great question. The
science actually says the research that's been done in our area says that if you want to protect wildlife, the optimum buffer from a wetland in our part of the state of Florida is 300 ft. Obviously, that's difficult when these buffers get applied to, you know, single family lots, commercial lots. Um, I
wasn't here when we adopted the 25 and 50. Um, I think that was sort of a compromise between what the optimal would be if you're trying to protect wildlife and something that still protects those property rights of of the people that own these lots. Um, the 50
certainly was intended to provide an additional buffer for those areas that are just very valuable wetlands. You know, part of the area that we have decided that we want to protect to a greater degree than maybe the urban areas. Uh,
And this might be a question for for you, Mike, or the staff is is so we'll talk a lot about wetlands, but 718 has more than just wetlands, right? Subject to sewer L. >> That one would have been no pollution
control, no storm water rules, no wetland protection, no water quality protection. It would have severely impacted our ability to even comply with the state rules about water quality. Right now they're asking us to make improvements to water quality that we wouldn't be able to make if they preempted us from being able to regulate
water quality. >> So So I'm trying to So we're going to write a letter and and I know where it's going to land and and the question is going to be well why why why these bills? So, are there
are there people that are are are there other municipalities, other counties that are using 300, 500 foot buffers? And I don't want to call it outrageous. It's outrageous compared to what we have. Um uh to the point where uh the
Senate and the House want to preempt this. >> No, there aren't other local governments that have really large buffers. There have been some changes in um areas on the west coast of Florida. Um Manatee County, I think, was one where they were looking at changing their wetland buffer
requirements. They got sued, it changed, then it didn't change. And so I mean I think this I can't really decide you know why somebody brought it forward but certainly I think in our county we're implementing these rules in a you know
really measured way to protect the things that really need protecting and have you know sort of less of a standard in those areas that are maybe more urban or >> right because you know at least from my perspective and and uh Councilman Robbins has brought things forward as
well that that our goal is to decrease regulation when it doesn't make sense. When it does make sense and and we've we've had these wetland uh conversations before, um then then we want to keep them. I I just want
to make sure that as we send this letter, everything we're doing is based on science, not just we picked so and so because that was a good number. Um because then we don't have a leg to stand on up there. You know, we we might
be we might actually be part of the problem, right? That that's causing the preeemption. I want to make sure we're not doesn't sound like we are. So, thank you, chairman. I'm done with the questions. >> Okay. Don, did you have a question? >> Yes. I'm sorry. One more time.
>> Um so, let me just make sure I'm clear on what we're fighting against. I think we're all in agreement that we're trying to fight preeemption from the state. And what they're looking to do, I guess, is to control our water quality, our water quantity, our wetlands, and including
any delineation and pollutant discharge prevention or removal. Correct. >> Yes, that's the 718 language. >> Okay. So, that's what we're basically fighting against, right? >> Am I right? >> Yes, sir. So they're trying to preempt
us from any activities that would affect the hydraology of our land. >> Correct. >> Yes. And and water quality. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, they're trying to preempt us for that. And they're also going to try and preempt us about commercial water wells on our property. Correct.
>> I don't know that answer to that. Is that right? Commercial water wells. >> Well, it says here they're going to try and regulate our water quality and quantity. So they would be trying to control our commercial wells to keep us from drawing the water out. >> Well, I I think and you guys help me out
would it's more about us being able to regulate commercial water wells. So already right now the water that we withdraw is regulated by the state through our consumptive use permitting. >> I think it's more about us being able to regulate other people um and the
commercial water wells. >> Right. So they would be preempting us. >> Correct. Okay, thank you. That's all. >> So, for instance, I think here's a good for instance. We have a rule that says you can't do certain activities within a certain distance from a a portable water
well, right? Like you can't do things like pour oil down the ground within, you know, a certain distance of a well. We would be preempted from that wellhead protection ordinance if 718 passed in its current format. >> Right. But I would think that 718 would
include commercial water wells that the state would regulate us on what we could do. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all. >> Okay. Uh Michael Dyer. >> Yes sir. So I I think you have a couple of options. One is do nothing. That's
always option available to you. Do not send a letter. Wait and monitor the situation. Um you could oppose both bills. relay your opinion as a council in the past would be a letter
sent behalf of the council by the chair or um you could um say that listen I 718 was so broad I oppose that as much as I don't like preeemptions and house bill 479 it's better than 718 I'll support
that I think you got a variety of options council uh session ended March So, we're still early in the process. >> Councilman Johansson, you have a question for
>> Yeah. Um, I guess another following question. What uh has fact have the fact lawyers weighed in on this? >> Yeah, thank you. I should have said that. Um I am not aware of fact or the full league of cities saying that they
uh I do know they have not agreed to house before 179. Um I did check on that Friday. Um I think they're still monitoring. I think they were speaking against the original bill at the time.
>> Yeah, I'll I'll have more to say about that when we come to discussion. uh mic as well. Okay, let's go to the public and then we can decide what we want to do. Uh Dr. Wendy Anderson.
>> Hello. My name is Wendy Anderson. I live in Dan District 1. Um, I just want to thank you first of all, Jeff, for um, uh, Chair Brower, for taking seriously my request at the January 8th meeting to
take up this topic. Um, it's urgent. It's, um, it's, in my opinion, one of the highest priorities you all should be focusing your time and your conversations on right now. So, thank you for that for in your closing remarks taking the time to follow up on it and
to all of you for for asking staff to generate a letter. I think the letter that attorney Ryan has helped you all craft um was very nicely done. It was clear in its position. It provided strong support for local control. It was
clear in what your requests are. Um I understand the changes that have occurred um in the House Bill 479 since then. do open up some options for you to make some minor edits to the to the letter and hopefully if you decide to do that that can be done as quickly as
possible. I think time is of the essence on this. I think it's important that our legislative delegation hear from you all as quickly as possible about your views of uh supporting local control and and opposing any kind of preeemption.
Um I do think that um of the options that Mr. Dyer has offered to you that continuing to oppose both bills is probably your best option. Um, yes, it's nice when a bill gets softened a little bit, but it is, as staff recommended,
still going to undermine very good ordinances that we have on the books already. Um, I often say when I'm um speaking up here and speaking in other contexts that the county actually does have already very good ordinances on the
books if only we would follow them and uphold them, which we do most of the time. Um, but to have the state come in and actually undermine our very good ordinances is really unacceptable. Um, I really like the line and I wish I had printed out the letter to read it to you
directly, but I really like the line in the last paragraph of the letter that that reminds the state that it is their job to set the floor, not the ceiling on policy that they set minimum standards
and it is up to local governments to decide if they want higher standards than that based on particular situations in local geography and culture. culture. So, um, so I do urge you to continue,
um, your conversation about this and I urge you to support sending this letter or a very, um, uh, very minor edits to this letter to, um, to oppose both of them. Thank you. >> Uh, thank you, Dr. Anderson. Yeah, that
that is a very uh, pertinent part of this letter. It's a well-written letter. Uh, thank you. Um, I don't think any of us mind. In fact, I think we expect that the state would would provide uh minimum standards. That's typically what
happens. And then a uh charter county government can have higher standards. Um and that's that's uh that's what needs to remain in place. But I I wanted to relay to the council because I think it's important for you to know a
conversation that Michael Dyer um had. uh he and I participated in a Florida Association of County conference on all these bills coming up and and he asked specifically about these bills. Uh uh
they don't like it either. Um the changes in House Bill 4 to79 hadn't been made yet, but um asked what we could do and there was a answer, you know, uh contact your local delegation and and then uh another speaker came on and
said, "Wait, um and might correct me if I'm wrong, I think they were talking about uh Senate Bill 180 that when that came up said it it became on the radar screen for entire state of Florida because of the action that Valuchia
County took. And I'm not just saying that to pat uh Mike on the back who worked with all the lawyers at fact to get it amendment. I worked through the committee that I'm on. I'm saying it because he's really they were really
talking about all of you. Um that Valuchia County stood up and wrote a massive number of letters to legislators and said we want this changed. Um, now I think uh George is going to talk about Senate Bill 180 in his closing remarks.
Did I see a a letter at you are? Okay. Because that that's a whole another animal. Um, but what's important, I think, for the council to keep in mind is that the the lobbyists in Tallahassee really depend on on us letting the
legislators um know directly, not just by lobbyists, um what what we want and our constituents that they need to to reach out. And when Mike asked, you know, which ones, their answer was all
of them. Send it to to every state. Uh, senator and legislature, I'm really happy with the with the letter. I I think though that the county the council needs to decide today. Do we do we say anything about 479? I think we
definitely need to oppose 718. Do we reference 479 at all that um it's tend trending in the right direction or or just oppose it? So that those are the decisions I think we need to to make today. Councilman,
>> and I should have added before, if you do elect to oppose both, we would generate a letter on House Bill 475 479 that's largely the same, but tailor it to that bill. >> A separate letter and just a House member.
>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Councilman Dempsey. >> Um, yeah, I I am strongly in favor of writing this letter regarding 718, and I'll just wait to maybe hear other input from you all on 479. Um, but I I do want to highlight something that's been the
topic of conversation over the last few weeks. I guess started by me, but Ginger pointed out that part of 718, the very thing we're fighting against is the state's ability to regulate our our ability to regulate water quantity or
quality. But looking at these uh conservation easements that we're doing, Ginger said 718 would limit our ability to control
um commercial wells. 718 would affect our ability to control our hydraology of our land. So even if we win this and we we fight
718 either by petition or by litigation, we beat it. We've still given it up by contract on these conservation easements in perpetuity because with every single, not every, there's a couple out there, but the majority, according to Dr. Burbball, the majority of these
conservation easements, we're contractually giving up our control of hydraology. We're giving up our control of commercial wells. So, here we are fighting, writing letters, we're going to go to court and fight 718. And even if we win, we've still given it up
because of conservation easements. That's my complaint with conservation easements. You know, we can win this war, but we're going to get preeemption by a thousand paper cuts. with every conservation easement more and more and
more preeemption because we are now not just being subjected to regulations by this big brother state which we could fight legally on constitutional issues but now we've gone into bed with them by contract forever
and we can't get out of it unless all parties agree the state St. John's, whoever we're in bed with, we have to get their blessing to get out of it. We've given up our preeemption. We've given up our local control with every
single one of these easements. That's my beef with the program. We got to stop that. We got to leave it to where Valuchia County and Valuchia County only is involved in these conservation easements because 500 years from now the
local leg the legislature council may say you know what that might have been a good idea in 2026 but in 2526 it's not a good idea anymore. We need to get out. So why do we need to be in bed with the state? Why do we need to be preempted by them? Because again with these easements
you have to get their blessing. We're preempted. That's my point. Thank you, >> Councilman Johansson. Gosh, I forgot what I was gonna say there. Um I I'm I'm kind of leaning
toward um um addressing Senate Bill 718 and I I think Mike Dyer said it. Um say 8 uh House Bill 479 starts to starts to go in the right direction. We like it
better than 718, but we prefer that you get rid of both. I think that would be the the way we we'd want to go. We don't want to be told what to do in any case. Um but but if we have to take the lesser of two
evils, we take the House bill over the Senate bill right now. Sounds like so um that that's just something to talk about and bandandy about. Thank you. >> Okay. So with even with that said, you you're in favor of opposing both.
>> Yes, opposing both. But if we have to suck an egg, the House bill is the one I want to I want to do. >> Okay. Uh Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to Don, your comments made me think of a question. I I was hoping you'd go there
just to kind of close it out. I I would I I I'm curious that if that bill does pass, um would it preempt our contracts that we've done there specifically to the wells or do we know how it would affect
it if possible? >> Generally, it's not going to Well, I I'll let Mr. Ryan start. Yeah, actually the bill specific 718 has a carveout that says it doesn't apply to an inter agency or interlocal agreement between the department and the agency water management district or local government
conducting programs relating to or materially affecting the water resources of the state. So there's kind of a carve out for that. >> There's the answer that it okay uh Don I just wanted to say that I you you bring up a really good
point and I think we need to discuss it and decide. And I know why we do it because it's it saves us some money if we get money from the state or from St. John's or whoever to buy land. So it makes our money go further. Uh but is it accomplishing the goal that we want to accomplish is is what you're saying. Um
however, and I think we need to have that discussion and I'd be glad to put it on the the agenda so that we can discuss it. Um, but it's it's out it's outside of the decision we need to make right now for right now that we need to
decide uh if we oppose both these just oppose the Senate bill and half-heartedly I agree with Jake that we should just uh uh oppose both of them at this point. Um that's just that's just
my feeling. Uh, anyone else? We need a uh a motion on the floor, right? What to do? Uh, right now we have uh the the Senate Bill 718 letter, which I don't see uh requires any changes
personally. Y'all have to tell staff that if you do. And um I think we need to also give them directions of do they also write a letter about House Bill 479. I'd like to make a motion that we um
ask for relief from H uh from House Bill 479 uh and and put some language up front that says although we're aware that the House bill softens up 718, it still doesn't meet the needs of the county.
Okay. Um motion uh made by Jake Johansson, second by Councilman Robbins. I like that. >> And I also think we chairman just uh administrative item. I think we ought to uh >> uh if we're going to approve the um
disagreement with 718 that we send them separately. Yeah. Can we send 718 forward and then work on uh House Bill 479? >> Yes. County attorney's nodding his head. Yes. Um,
okay. We have a a motion and a second on the floor to to go ahead and send the 718 letter. Uh, legal staff will bring back a letter to 479 at the next meeting perhaps or quicker. >> Sure, we can do that next meeting.
>> I mean, these I I know it's early, but this bill these bills are so bad. We need to we need to jump on. chairman. So many times last year and the year before uh when when we've talked to our delegation, I've heard that ship has left the station already, pretty early
on. So, I'd like to get these up there early. >> Chris Ryan has promised that he won't will not leave the building tonight until it's done. >> Okay. Yeah, Jake, you are you are absolutely correct. I'm glad you said that. I'm going to say more about that
when when George talks about Senate Bill 180 because it's it's kind of indicative of what's happening there. But okay, that's the the motion on the floor. 7718 479 will be brought back by staff. Um
any other discussion? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And that motion carries seven to zero. >> Mr. Chair, would you like me to right now? We could speak about that. >> That would it would fit in well. Thank you.
>> Everybody have the letter that George sent out should be handed out, but what it is uh it's uh regarding Senate Bill 840. I can just read it here quick. We would like
to take the opportunity to express our support for Senate Bill 840, which serves as Senator Digglia's effort to correct some of the unintended consequences created by last year's Senate Bill 180. As you may recall, Senate Bill 180 has been used to block local governments from making
comprehensive plan changes or establishing protection policies unrelated to storm response. Senate Bill 840 would narrow current law to apply only to storm damaged properties and policies that would delay rebuilding while allowing local governments to move forward with
unrelated planning decisions. Furthermore, we support Mr. Diggley's efforts to reduce affected areas from 100 miles to 50 miles from a hurricane's track. This allows local governments to continue certain actions after a storm,
planning decisions, and projects related to drinking water, sewer, storm water, and flood protection. And thank you for the attention to this uh letter and look forward to working with you on this and during the 2026 legislative session. So,
if that's acceptable, uh we'd like to send that forth. Yeah. Uh we'll we'll get a consensus here and I had one question for you or or anybody
else on the tracking of 100 miles to 50 miles. Are they tracking that from the eye or from the furthest outer edge of a storm? >> We asked that question. >> I bet you did. >> Good afternoon again, Council Assistant
County Attorney Chris Ryan. Um, right now there's some clarification that is needed on that and I I believe they're saying from the outer edge, but um I I don't believe that's been clarified yet. >> Okay. It's important given >> Yeah, it is the size of these storms.
So, we'll try to get clarification. >> Yeah. Okay. And um is John Booker here or maybe you can answer this. >> John's in Tallahassee. So, >> good. Uh
we we learned last week that uh this is a a much better bill than 180 was. Um it has some uh uh potency because it's from the
original author who's now correcting his own bill. Um but it had no um house companion bill and I've talked to one of our local delegation and um he wasn't aware that Senator Diggley even filed a
bill. Um but said and I think staff has confirmed this that that doesn't mean it's you know we're dead in the water. Um, it's not impossible to still change it to to amend Senate Bill 180 with just Senate
Bill 840. It just makes it more difficult. Um, um, we're going to have to the legislature is going to have to find, and you might be able to correct me if I'm wrong, they're going to have to find language in another bill that can be then uh, attached. So, it's just
it's a harder process. But again, the reason I bring that up is because of what the committee from uh Florida Association of Counties said to to Mike and I when we asked what we should do. He said what what make what made a
difference on Senate Bill 180 especially was the amount of feedback they got from the public that said please don't do this and um from the staff um and the attorneys. So, um
I don't know if uh Councilman Santiago >> move to approve the letter. >> Second. Johansson. >> Okay. Uh all in favor of sending this letter, please say I. >> I. >> I.
>> Any opposed? Okay, that takes care of the uh consent agenda. Thank you everybody. And that takes us to item three u approval to resend echo grant eh201
and authorized release of restricted covenant upon full reimbursement of the $485,000 from Heritage Preservation Inc. Uh Brad Burwell. >> Yes, sir. Um Brad Burwell, community services director. So this is a uh a
voluntary request from the um Heritage Preservation Trust, which is a nonprofit organization. Um we helped them, I believe in 2009 and 2012, buy two historic homes. Um one was the Hotchkas made their house that is in front of you
today. Um the organization has had some compliance issues that were identified in 23. We've tried to work with them to come into compliance. Um but I think now that they've they've realized that uh maintaining both properties is not
feasible for them given the historic nature and I mean just owning a home on the beach side you know that uh maintenance costs are high. So, um what they have proposed for council's consideration is um putting this house on the market um and
selling it um and reimburse reimbursing the county and taxpayers the full amount. So, $485,000 um in order to do that, they need council's approval to um lift the restrictive covenant when we receive
payment to protect ourselves. We are, you know, Sabrina had has worked out a um a method that we would hold, they would hold the money in escrow uh for the restrictive covenants. So, we would not lift the restrictive covenants
unless the money was in escrow for us. >> Okay. Thank you. Questions for Brad? Uh Councilman Santiago, >> I just want to make a motion to approve. >> Second, >> Johansson. A motion to uh approve the resend by
David Santiago. Second was by Councilman Johansson. Uh Don Dempsey, do you have a question for staff? >> Brad. >> Yes, sir. >> Brad, um I heard through the vine that at one
point the property owner offered to give us the county the property back. Is that true? >> So it would give it back. We never owned it. It was owned privately. Yes. >> I understand. But to give it to us that >> that is what Mr. Dillard said. My staff who has engaged with him since the beginning does not recollect that
conversation happening. It might have happened previous to Daniel being in the seat, but Kendra was in Kendra Hively or Peterson rather was in that seat who's now my ops manager. And so neither one recalled having that conversation with Mr. Dillard.
>> Would there be a problem with asking him? I don't know if he's here today or I just was heard that that was an offer and that might be something we need to discuss. >> Sure. I I I you would take on the maintenance
costs of a house that's in disrepair, but >> Okay. >> I mean I sure >> I mean >> Well, secondly, is there any superior leans on this house that we'd be subordinate to? Uh, good evening. Sabrina Slack,
assistant county attorney. We don't have a title policy or title work, but a review of the clerk of court's website indicates there are no uh mortgages ahead of us on our lean >> or mechanics leans. >> Mechanics leans aren't typically recorded, so I don't know. I don't have a title policy.
>> There's no judgments. So, >> there are there's not >> there are not judgments ahead of us on this. So if if they had a lot of work done by contractors and a lot of materials supplied, but they didn't pay their bills, there would be a lean on the property, a mechanic's lean.
>> If the contractor went and got a judgment, yes, there is no recorded clerk of court judgments prior to ours in time, but I don't have a title policy. So >> have we done a title s Have we done a title search to see if there's any superior lead? >> We have not because we don't I don't have authorization to move forward with
the foreclosure action. So, I wouldn't incur the cost of a title policy search at this point. Um, they are in the process of potentially selling it. So, they will get title work done and the title company would then prioritize our lean.
>> Well, is our lean superior to a mechanics lean? >> It would be in time. So, our lean would be uh under priority. though. Um, if ours is recorded prior to a list pendance and a lean by a mechanic. Yes.
>> Because if this property is in such disrepair that it only sold for 400,000 and they owe us a lot more than that. We just >> Well, I don't know what it's selling for currently. That's what it sold for in 2000. All that, Mr. >> This was This was our portion of the purchase in 2000. I believe the house is
selling well it's listed was listed for over a million and the the price now is just under a million $9.99 I believe >> and they're into us for a half a million basically >> sir >> and my concern is if it only sold for
400 we're going to be out 100 roughly >> no I I don't I don't follow u our our echolan is $485,59 that's all our money the the restrictive covenants state that we would have given
them up to 500,000. We only actually gave them 489,59. So that's our >> But my question I I my question is if it's in such disrepair that it only sells for 300, let's say, then we're out the 185. So, so there's a board member
here who just >> So, uh, as with any foreclosure sale, our our lean is only secured by the value of the property, right? So, whatever the value of the property is is the security of our lean, but we as with any um person who has a lean, we could
go after personal judgment for the balance. So, I mean, we have remedies and options, but as we sit here today, our lean is that amount, and it's the property is the only thing that secures our lean, if that's what you're asking. >> It is. And you're confident that we're
the superior lean over any other lean holders or title. >> So, it's my understanding the current contract is for $875,000. So, we're secure under the contract. >> Yes. I'm just I'm I'm looking at the uh the Hodgekin the Mather home.
All right. And these are historic homes, right? >> Do they have any benefit to the county if we were to get the houses back into the county's list of assets and maybe we renovated?
>> So, as honest assessment is um if I think the Lillian house would be more appropriate given it was the first house on Beachside. um than Hodkus made there. I think it has less historical significance if the council wish to um review that.
But as your director of parks and recreation and understanding our operational co not director but overseeing parks and rec understanding the operational cost of um securing preserving and um maintaining a historic home like the Berry Hall
um it is the cost for operational elevated above a typical asset of the county. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh Jake Johansson, you have a another question. >> So on on Don's line of questioning,
right? >> This 485 will go into escrow before we release the covenant. So if it just just play with me here. If it if it sells for 300, then 4.85 isn't going to be in the
escrow and we're not going to release the covenant. So, the new buyer is going to be stuck with that or or that covenant's going to go with the property, right? If we don't release it and they still want to buy it. Yes. >> Correct. Correct. If we don't release
the restrictive covenants, it would still go with >> So, so basically, this 485 is coming to us one way or another. right now if they sell it for 800 700 whatever we're going to get our money. Um so I I understand Don's concern we're not going to get it.
Um uh now chairman of point of privilege I'm going to make a comment. Our government isn't in the in the business of buying property and and flipping it for a profit or
keeping it. We don't have the manpower to keep it to preserve. Um I I just caution that we not get into that business. Just my caution. Thank you, sir. >> Okay. We do have a a member of the public that's on the board of Lillian
Place, one of the properties uh that's u owned here by Heritage. Uh David Glasser. I only have one card to speak. Is there two of you going to speak? We have We have two members of the board
that are here. Myself and uh and Miss Dillard is here to my left. So, I'm not sure how this works. We both I think we both signed up to speak, I guess. >> Okay. I only got a card for you. If she wants to speak, that's fine. She just >> Okay.
>> needs to fill out a form with the clerk over here. >> Okay. >> Actually, one's coming to her. Thank you, John. >> Uh, thank you. Go ahead. Okay. And just say items three and seven are really closely related. So, we really appreciate the opportunity to speak to
the board. I just kind of give you a little bit of a perspective. Uh, personally, I've been here in Valuchia County for many years. I've been on the board for many years. uh the prior director of the board, Nancy Long, was fantastic. She was enthusiastic. She
really built things up. Uh and then Miss Mr. Dillard, Fran Dillard, husband and wife. They've been really picked up the ball on this particular uh property. There are two properties. There's Hotchka's house as well as Lilian Place. And as just indicated, these are
historical properties. In my opinion, they're priceless. you know, Steven Crane was there, the author was there. Um, I have watched personally the board, the the buildings are old. They've need there's
been leaking. There's been windows, doors, kitchen, bathroom. Uh, obviously the when the the the uh when the bridge was built on Silver Beach, all the pounding loosened up the foundation. Um,
personally, I'm not a shaker and baker on the board to support. I go to the meetings to support, vote, etc., make suggestions. There's a lot of really incredible people that have been on the board over the years. Some former members, unfortunately, passed away in
the last few years. It's amazing that the buildings are intact at this point. There's been a lot of tremendous events, tea parties, dinners, there's been plays, outdoor activities. Uh, everybody's really worked hard. Um,
unfortunately, these buildings are, you know, they're old and they take a lot of maintenance. The one H Hotchkas house we thought we should sell. We voted on that because it's hard to maintain both buildings. Um, so that's what's here today. Um, and obviously we would pay
back the grant. However, the board, however, the council wanted to do that, it would be paid back. Um I kind of if I could kind of bind three with seven but seven involves a lily in place which involves a lot of uh repairs. Um we're
asking um for the monies that are above and beyond to be used for the Lilian place to preserve uh the building. We're doing the best we can everybody to pay for this. And I might add there's been board members that have paid money out of their own pockets to keep things up
here. The buildings are priceless. I think, you know, they're the history of Daytona. Obviously, there's condos going up, etc., which is fantastic, but that's not the history of uh Daytona Beach. We don't have a lot of historical buildings, and I think that on behalf of
the board, I'm sure everybody would agree, we have a terrific board right now. We're really working hard. We have a terrific employee that's been working on maintenance for years. Oh, I'm sorry. >> So, okay, that's what we we would ask. Thank you. Thank you, Mary, very much.
Fran Dullard. >> Hello, I'm Fran Dillard and I'm on the board of directors of the Heritage Preservation Trust. My husband, John Dillard, is the president. He can't be here. He just went through a cornea transplant, so he's recovering from
that. Um, we did talk to Daniel Marsh and Jill Markham about uh giving the houses to the county. That was our first choice because we felt when we ran into a brick wall and couldn't continue to
maintain them the way they needed to. In addition, we weren't able to get the money we needed to do some of the bigger projects like fix the railings that blew down that they would be in good hands with the county that they would be protected. We were told that there was
no guarantee if we gave the houses to the county that they would continue to maintain them and protect them. And they gave us some other options and one of which was we could sell one or both. So, we met again and realized that we could sell H Hotchka's house and take the
proceeds from the sale after the grant was paid off and use that money to continue to maintain Lillian, which is what we're trying to do at this point. >> Okay. Thank you very much, uh, Councilman Danny Robbins. Thank you,
Chair, uh, Council. Um, this question may be directed at at you, Chair. Maybe you would know, and and Mr. Reinhardt, have we uh approached uh Daytona at all to see if um um they would want to get in on the fund uh for for these projects
or share some of this? Cuz I know they only say that just just west on uh Orange Avenue uh the the old bridge there uh across from the stadium, there was an old building there that they that they were able to uh save. I don't remember exactly how they did it, but
just maybe food for thought, you know. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if staff has done. Okay. All right. The motion uh on the floor is to approve to rescend the grant of 485509.
Um, >> if I may make this request so we don't have to bring this back, but the when the county approved this um in 2012, it was the first of its kind, kind of the emergency historic stabilization grant at that
time. The the applicants did not have a public access plan uh in place. So the county as a term of the grant requested a con or an easement a public access easement over um the entire property.
The county came back later when they had a public or public access plan and did the easement over a portion where the road goes down to the river to provide public access because it was a condition of the grant. Um we'd like to request to
lift the easement. Without that, they cannot move to closing. As part of this motion >> is the uh David Santiago, you made the motion. >> Yes, Mr. Chair. I'll amend my motion to include the language requested by Mr. Brad. >> Second, Johansson.
>> Okay. Um Brad, one other quick uh question. If once it's sold, we have no control over what happens to that property. That is correct. could be sold as a condom. >> Well, yes, but the Dillards will, and they mentioned this at the echo
committee, that they made sure to find a buyer who has committed to preserve the house. It's as good as the handshake it's made with, but um they have made a commitment and I believe have done >> restored other historic homes, the buyer. >> Okay,
you were done. Your name's >> Oh, no. >> Okay. All right. We have a motion and a second to rescend the grant. Uh all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And
the motion is approved. 7 to zero. Um to resend that grant. Item four, retirement recognition of John Boyd for 30 years of service I believe in the clerk's office.
Clerk of the court. Hi, I'm Mark Weinberg. I'm the court administrator. John, uh, this is John, our recent retiree. So, we're here to recognize John for 30 years of meritorious service to court administration and uh pre-trial services
and congratulating him on his recent retirement. >> He's not old enough to retire. >> I know, right? Um I do want to tell you just a quick story about John. John has uh worked the majority of his 30 years with pre-trial services. And one of the
uh duties of pre-trial is to to work 365 days a year. One of the things John did was he would volunteer to work on Christmas every year so the other employees could enjoy the time with their families. Um, John
retired in early December. This Christmas I went out to the jail and who did I see but John Boyd. And I don't know if that's just because that was his he had he didn't remember doing anything else on Christmas except
going to the jail. Uh what I think it was though was just his way of uh wishing his fellow employees merry Christmas but also expressing to them the importance of the work that they do. So if you would uh join me in congratulating John on 30 years of
service and wishing him well in his retirement. Yes. Well, he can go ahead then. I'll then I'm gonna >> Thank you. >> I'm gonna You know, you're going to hear from Councilman Reinhardt. So, >> if you want to go first, go ahead.
>> Oh, I just It's been a heck of a ride. I can't appreciate everybody. Mark Weinberg's been incredible. We have a great team from the county. We do a great job. It's been awesome. No regrets. Well, I'm glad to be done. >> I bet.
>> 30 years is a long time. Good. Uh, Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair John. It is an absolute honor to have worked with you. Um, many, many years coming down to booking. And one thing, consistency would be a key word with you. Always making people
smile. >> One of the funniest guys I've ever ran into. Definitely. and and it could be, you know, jail environment is not a fun place, but you you made it that way. So, we appreciate you. Um, you will be missed. So, make sure you check back in with them.
>> I'll be here. I'm born and raised. So, there still here. >> Well, thank you again. We appreciate you. >> And Councilman Don Dempsey, >> John, I'm I'm floored. I didn't know this was the John Void that I know. Um, I've known John since back in the 1900s
and every time Did you Does my wife know you're leaving? >> Uh, I think so. Everybody probably knows now. >> Yeah. I mean, she's going to be really upset to see you go, too, cuz every time I go to first appearance, that's who I deal with is John. And he's always been
very pleasant. And I mean, very respectful to the inmates. And I mean, do you're going to have tough Somebody's going to have tough shoes to fill. You replaced Janet, right? >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I'll work start with Janet, but out there. Yeah. >> Yeah. She's unreplaceable, >> man. I hate to see you go, man. But
congratulations. You've done a very good job over the time I've known you, and congrats. You deserve it. >> I appreciate it. >> See you. >> Damn. >> All right. Can I get a a motion to approve? >> And we're not actually not approving your retirement.
>> Uh we're just we're voting to say congratulations and to affirm your your retirement. Don can twist your arm later. >> All right. So, uh, motion to approve by >> second Johansson. >> Okay. The motion was by Matt and second was by
Jake Johansson. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And congratulations. You wanted pictures, I think. >> I want to get a handshake from everybody. >> Okay, >> there we go. >> How do you want them for pictures? Is that a cold watch?
>> Congratulations. >> Mr. Boy, can you get right in the center right here and then turn this way and then fill on each side? This way a little bit. >> Perfect. There we go. Big smiles. >> Perfect. Thank you all so much.
Appreciate it. >> Take care. >> Where was Pat? >> He didn't say that though. Okay, we'll move to item six, which is a contract with Wharton Smith for the fire station 15 on uh State Road 92 and Red
John Drive. And >> move to approve. Second motans >> motion to approve by David Santiago. Who was a second by? I think there was three of them. >> Johansson had a hell of a speech. >> Okay.
>> Second by Jake Johansson. >> Job Tad. >> And um uh any any questions for staff? No public input? Any comments? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed?
>> Great job, Ted. Great job, Ted. >> Look at all these firemen. >> You've got an applause. He's >> all these firemen here to argue with us. >> Tad's presentation is the one that put it over the edge, guys. >> Yeah, >> I want Tad's job.
>> Yeah, >> he he gets to announce all the vacations. Item six, echo strategic plan presentation discussion and direction. >> Yes. Yes sir. So um one of the the
recommendations for the um from the consultant is we used to have the echo advisory committee chair come and and present co-present not co-present but support on behalf of the advisory committee um the work that we're doing.
So uh we have went back to that practice. it's, you know, of inviting the committee chair. So, I have Reggie Santilly here who is our chair of our echo committee. Um, council, u, she's going to comment on the item. If you'd like to hear it before or after from the
chair, it's up to you. >> Yeah, she can just make it part of the presentation. >> Okay. >> He just took half of your three minutes, so go ahead. >> Good evening, council. My name is Reggie
Santilli. from live and dand and I'm the chair of the echo advisory committee. I'm speaking today on behalf of the committee regarding the strategic planning process and a review of the vision 2040 recommendations. The committee review was comprehensive
and documented. On October 9th, 2025, the committee engaged in extensive review of all five goals and 30 strategies that comprise the strategic plan's final recommendations. staff explicitly stated on the record that we reviewed that what we reviewed
is not going to change between now and council. The goals and strategies will be the same. The meeting transcript, the approved minutes, the video recording document, the committee discussion on all the goals. No requests for additional reviews were made. At no
point during the October 9th meeting did any committee me member request that the final plan be placed on future agenda for a formal review discussion or vote. No concerns were raised about the review process or the adequacy of our
opportunity to provide input. At our January 6th meeting two weeks ago, no committee members raised process concerns or requested additional review. The committee received complete documentation. Echo staff distributed the complete
strategic plan document to all committee members on October 29th, 2025. All committee members had access to the full plan more than two months before tonight's presentation and no concerns were raised. The committee formally
acknowledged the process. On January 6, the committee unanimously approved our 2026 work plan, which included the action items to continue the implementation of recommendations that we be approved by council from the Echo
2040 strategic plan. The vote acknowledged the plan's progression to council for your consideration. While I respect that individual committee members may have different perspectives, the official meeting record demonstrates that the committee
fulfilled its advisory role in this process. We reviewed the final re recommendations. We provided substantial input and we had opportunities to request additional review if we felt it necessary. I'm confident the strategic plan
reflects both professional expertise and community input. We appreciate the county's consideration of the vision 2040 strategic plan. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Uh thank you. Questions for for staff.
Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you. And and and before you sit down because I had a question for you, too. Thank you. Brad, you're first if I may, Mr. Chair. You know, it's interesting to give you gave the update because today I read an email from a
member of your committee that basically contradicts almost everything you said, >> Brad. >> Yes. >> Did you read that letter? Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> Am I accurate in describing he basically is saying that
you're lying and you're lying? >> It's a mischaracterization of the process. Yes. >> The truth. mischaracter. Okay, nice way to say it. Thank you. I use the liar word. Okay. Is he saying also that is a mischaracterization of your comments too?
>> Yes. >> To the body, you know, for for for a member to do that is concern. It's okay to disagree. It's okay to disagree with the outcome, but for a member of a body that we appoint that is a reflection of us, I've always said that people we
appoint to outright lie and call these two individuals and probably the remainder of the committee a liar is very concerning to me. Um, and I'd like for us I guess we're going to deal with the uh the item here, but at the end of this item, I will be making a motion to
withdraw that member from this committee. He doesn't reflect the principles that I believe in and I think that this council should not support to make a clear statement on these two fine individuals in my opinion calling them a liar. So, Mr. Chairman, we can continue and I'll do that after the vote.
>> Uh, Councilman Don Dempsey. >> Yeah, I saw the same email. Um, I know that gentleman. I don't have any reason to think that he I I don't know. I really don't know what's going on here. But my question is for for Brad is
what's the harm if we just push this off to the next council meeting and give them two weeks to get up to speed because I you know we're talking about >> something that's going to be binding through 2040. >> They are up to speed. There's no more work to do. >> I understand. But if if he's not up to
speed and he's part of the committee, I think because this is such a long-term policy decision, what's the harm in waiting couple weeks? >> Well, so we have the grant cycle coming up, so it would push back the grant cycle, which we've already done. Um, so
we have many organizations who are waiting for the grant cycle to open. Um, we also, you know, the individual in question praised staff for our work at the last meeting. >> I I I love what you do. I think you do a great job. I'm just wondering what's the harm in waiting a couple weeks.
>> I think we've kicked the can down the road and previously because this was this was postponed since from November to this date. >> But any other prejudice than just principal? I mean it's two weeks three weeks. Two weeks
>> that So that would be calling an echo meeting or >> No, just just postponing this for two weeks. >> Mr. Chairman, point of order. I don't think that's for up to Brad to decide to tell us. It really is for this council to decide whether we want to table this. >> Well, I think that's what Don's asking.
He's asking the council >> he's asking Brad what the >> what the repercussions would be on. >> Do we have is there something that's going to be catastrophic if we wait two weeks? Is there something due by the end of January or can we wait until the
first Tuesday? >> Can I respond, Mr. Chair, to uh >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Mr. Sure. Is that >> Yeah, I think uh I think Brad said that there there wasn't except that we've already we've already pushed it to to now, but I'm I'm uh Go ahead, David. You
had a >> reply to Don. I think we've we've delayed this a few times already. Um, and without discussing maybe later the individual either he's he's asked the question, we hear from Brad here that
he's asked the questions. The individual that you you're asking to delay this for has asked the questions in committee has participated in the committee. He's either and sending his email. He's either lying to us or he's incompetent in serving the committee. Right? And that's that's a whole different
question. Again, that motion is coming. But for us to delay the public's work for someone who was in the meetings and the overwhelm majority of the board approved this, we need to move forward. We're not I don't think this council should support stopping this for any one person.
>> Well, can I respond to D? I mean, just can I respond to David or is how this work? >> Go ahead and >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, David, just out of due process, I mean, we're going to kick a guy off a committee and essent possibly uh
disparage his character without him even being here to >> offer himself a defense or explain his side of it. So, we could probably kill two birds with one stone. If we postpone this for a couple of weeks, then he'll have had time to read it. Whatever his complaints are, he may love it. I don't
know. But I've never I haven't spoken to the guy, but I saw the email and I'm just wondering what the prejudice is if we wait because especially anticipating your motion. I I can tell you I'd be a no. Not because I disbelieve Dr. Burbal
and his staff. It's just I you know, you can't that is no due process by not even giving him a chance to come here and defend himself. >> Since he still has the fork, can I >> I know you guys are in there, but I'll wait, Mr. chair, but >> okay.
>> Yeah, >> we're >> we're still in questions. Councilman Robbins, you have a question for staff. >> Thank you, uh, Chair. Um, my my question is, uh, today, Brad, there was about 30 recommendations you had sent. >> U, are can we, um, can we go down
through those? >> There's Yes. So, there's 11 policy questions. >> Okay. >> The rest can be implemented by staff. can be implemented but by staff, but is is this council going to be able to weigh in on those possible things that >> Sure.
>> What I don't want is the buck to stop with y'all per se. Um because I had some questions in there uh with that. >> I I wrote that in the memo. You can certainly bring those up. >> Okay. Um I'd like to discuss those those those 11 going going forward from here.
I think there's going to be some uh spirited discussions on them that that probably need to happen. Um, and I just my my goal uh council just uh just a quick comment. I just don't want to weaken uh the program or or undermine
what the voters voted for, but uh I'm I'm interested to talk about those 11. Thank you. >> Yeah, Brad, just a quick question. What the meeting in question, the last the most recent meeting, is that is there video of that?
>> Yes, sir. Yes, there's video and transcripts which are included in your memo. The meeting where they reviewed it was October. So, they've had the plan since October. So, delaying it again since October is up to council.
>> Yeah. Okay. That's why it's I I think Don's um comments have have merit that this is so it's so different, so opposite because that this member says that they hadn't received the report
that they they had a spreadsheet of it. Um and I I am certainly not going to vote to put him off of the committee without hearing from him and without giving him his day. I I don't mind I I do agree, Danny, that we should go
through the the uh recommendations that are made because there's choices that that have to be made. Um um and then we'll it sounds like we're going to take up uh putting putting this
member off the committee later anyway if you're going to bring a a motion to to do that. Um so >> so if may I add a point for context? So um and it this states clearly in the memo that the recomal areas and
recommendations which the council asks which the advisory role is to review those is what was presented. We had the draft verbiage. We didn't have the shiny report that had the rationale and data points informing it. All of the council member, all of the advisory council's
members have been briefed. Um, and we're fine with us sharing the point, the strategic, the full kind of glossy shiny, you know, deliverable via email without bringing it back at the time of the October 9th meeting. >> Right. That's what you've told me.
>> Yes. >> Before. >> Okay. Want to follow up on that? Well, Jake, >> Jake Johansson. >> Yeah. I That's what I wanted to verify. the the spreadsheet they saw with the recommendations in October are the same as the recommendations we're voting on
tonight. >> That is correct. >> That I know that to be correct, but I'm just saying it for the public. So, what we're voting on tonight, the committee approved in October. >> Yes, sir. >> And the only difference is it wasn't in spreadsheet or it is in spreadsheet in
the final document with the shiny page and >> Yes, sir. But they don't vote to approve on stuff like this. They're advisory in nature. provided their >> Yep. Got it. And and that feedback's been provided to us. >> Yes, sir. >> So, I I understand there's a lot more to this.
>> I I >> But it sounds like nobody is remiss in voting in these 11 policy things tonight. >> And I will share with you that we have briefed the advisory committee at each step on the way. So, you know, in March, we launched the community survey. In
April um at the echo advisory meeting, we presented those survey results so to the committee um in April the the committee as I'm sorry in June as part of the committee's sprint or design sprint workshop, they received a
pre-briefing on the results of the strategic plan where the consultants came in and facilitated a process where we gave them the results of the interview or the survey. We gave them the results of the 52 interviews and said, "Here are the things that we're seeing. Here are the themes. Um, propose
solutions with us." So, it's not the first when we brought those recommendations, it is not the first time that they saw the results. Now, I will share and in this individual's defense, he was not appointed to the committee until April. And so having come in on the back end of the process, we've tried to brief him as much as
possible, but this is just part of the inevitability of reappoints uh based on elections. >> Okay. Council Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And and the individual in question, they were participating in these meetings since October.
>> No, since April. >> But I mean, I got you in April. >> Yes. >> They were not appointed in October. So we typically we reappoint echo in March. So if you're elected in November when you come in in January, you reappoint your echo people and flush forever in
March. >> Okay. But the the question here on these recent votes was done just a few months ago. >> Correct. >> And he was on the board. >> He was involved in the pre-briefing. So the when we brought the consultant in and they shared all of the results with us, he was involved in that. Um
>> he was in all those meetings recently. >> Yes. >> Okay. And and and Mr. chairman and and to my colleagues, the reason I guess you can call it just a drastic matter, I personally am sick and tired of all the misinformation that goes on in this county. We have to take a stance and say
it's unacceptable. I believe Brad, Miss Santelli, I believe you, right? And that's why I want to take the drastic measures. If we deal with it a different way, I'm open to discussion with that and you know, Mr. counselor over the defense attorney. But I don't know if we have any rules of uh procedures for
that. But um to me, I'll leave it there, Mr. Chair. We can deal with the topics, but I want to make it very clear. I am just sick and tired of misinformation and this council needs to take a stance and we won't accept it anymore, especially from people that are appointed by us.
>> Uh Councilman Kent, did you have a question for staff? >> I don't have questions. I just had some comments about what's been said. >> Okay. So, whenever you're ready, >> then let's hear from the public first. Uh, John Nicholson is is uh
wanted to speak on the topic. Did you have another one for this item? Uh, Marissa, >> go ahead. >> Uh, John Nicholson, Daytona Beachside one with this gentleman. To be honest, David, uh, his view is an honest view.
if he doesn't feel that the proc wait that the procedure fit his concept of gaining knowledge about everything that happened before him. It's his fault, but it's nothing that should be uh kicked off the uh the board for. That's an
honest view and people have a right to their honest view. U Troy says it all the time. We may not agree, but so uh secondly, I again want to bring up and explain why I want you to put on the ballot
the echo, all right, for the $600,000. All right? Because from what I understand, when we voted 20 some odd years ago, the concept was brick and mortar. All right? We have done most of
the brick and mortar. there's only so much brick and mortar you can do. All right, so we've done most of it and if I'm not mistaken, we've gone to two uh grant cycles because of the amount of money that we have and the number of requests that we have. It's not
divulging it. So, we have extra money. At one point, I heard a $21 million that was still sitting in there. All right. So if we have two cycles and we have basically done all the brick
and mortar that we can do, the idea of having the buildings not being used does not make sense to me. You've put all of this money $100 million or so into brick and mortar and now they're not fully
used. I like the highest and best use of buildings and the highest and best use is to having them used especially for cultural arts because that was the reason for the brick and mortar in the first place. So, if we go before the
public in November, we have plenty of time to put it on the ballot and ask them if we can use 10%. which is not drastic in any uh kind of
uh group whatsoever to use it for the poor, the seniors, those that can't afford it, those that are creative. All right. All these things that we they can't be used for right
now, but we've asked the art community to make it available to children to make it available X, Y, and Z. Whatever we've requested, they've done it. There are people like myself that cannot
afford it. You guys can 120 bucks for theater, not a big deal. For me, 120 bucks four or five times a month is a lot of money. So, I'm asking you to see if you can change it on the ballot. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh, Greg Gimbert.
>> Hey, good evening. Greg Gimbert, 255 Uclid Avenue, Daytona Beach. So great to see you guys again. It's been a minute since I've been here. You're probably surprised to see me on Echo, but I was original supporter of it and forever
because they felt like the right thing to do. But those were different times and we're definitely different than now. So, the way I see it, we have some large concerns on the table. There's very few we can do anything about. There's insurance,
there's taxes, and there's the water protection. And the only thing you can really do anything about tonight right now is the taxes and the legislaturator's not. So with all due respect of all the things you consider doing, I want to ask you to consider doing just one more. And it doesn't
negate anything you may plan to do or others may propose. I want you to put them on the ballot for repeal. Repeal of Echo and forever. There's a good case to say echo is great, but we kind of can't afford it right now with the inflation and everything else. forever. We've got more
than 30% of our land in government hands in one form of another, which is about two two times too much for me. We ain't enough money to buy it all. If you want to protect it, stop changing the zoning. We can't buy it all. It's crazy. We should stop. We've already overbought and the taxation is oppressive. I'm not
saying it's going to change the world, but it will help. And it's the only thing you can do. Well, not the only thing. Um, you can sunset the CRAAS with the water pressure we have. we really don't need to gas development with tax dollars when we're not sure we can afford the water for the next one. So
that's it. Thank you for the opportunity to participate and good night. >> Thank you for your comments. Um okay. Um, we don't yet have a a motion on the floor if we want to have a motion to go
through the 11 uh items or the motion that Don talked about to table it. Does anybody have a motion that we >> motion to continue with the 11 policy decisions? >> Second. >> Okay. >> Uh, Johansson. Councilman Johansson
makes a motion to continue with the policy recommendations and the second was by Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Okay. Um I'm going to I'm going to clear this screen here because we've got a lot of old names. If you want to speak on this, there you go. Just put your name
back up. Uh Brad, you're going to lead us uh through them. Um before you do that, did you want to say something? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Brad, as we go down these, I just have one very important question >> on on some of these uh whether or not um
this program was renewed um several years ago, but recent, right? We're not at the tail end of this. We're we're in the beginning. >> Um with some of these, why wasn't this either on the ballot or why is it being changed or wanting to be changed now? Or
why are these recommend recommendations coming us for change when we just voted when the voters just voted on it in a certain in a certain way? >> Because council approved a strategic planning process and this is the result of that process. >> Okay, perfect. Thanks.
>> And Councilman Kent, did you want to speak now? >> I did, Chairman, just because of some of the things that that were stated earlier. Um, I want to and these are are some of my comments, so if they want to start my time, it's fine. Um,
I won't I won't take up my time that uh that I'm I'm allotted, but I want to thank this council to begin with because the gentleman in question was my appointment. I had an opening and and you all approved that
appointment 7 to zero and I thank you for that. And David, it is your prerogative as an elected official to do what you want with this situation or any of you to do what you want. But I just tell you a couple of things. I I respectfully
request you don't do what you said you were going to do. At least not now. And I'm going to tell you why. I know this man and I tell you he's a neighbor because I want you to know that's how I know him. He lives across the street from me. So when I'm walking
my dog or taking out my trash, he is a former Marine. He's a good guy. He really is. Um I was as surprised as probably many of you were with the email. Dr. Burbal and I
had a conversation today about it and Dr. Burbal responded to the email and gave me some information. Made me feel more comfortable about tonight, about voting for it tonight. But I agree with Don. You know, I I don't like the idea of taking him or anybody else off unless
we've given them their due process. Um I don't like the way it feels with someone saying something and and don't take this out of context, but saying something we don't like and now we're going to remove you. And I know that's not where you were going with it. Yours was more of a you're saying things that
weren't factual and I believe these two individuals and you're making the the group look bad. So, I I just am of the belief that cooler heads prevail and um
I'm okay going through these 11 items this evening. I'm okay with that. uh and giving them a thumbs up or thumb down or specific direction on on what we want to do, but I'm not okay ripping this member out tonight or any
other member for that matter without giving them an opportunity to respond to any questions we may have and to listen to what their thinking is. And I'll tell you the reason I think this has come to a flash point is listen, let's just say it. There's been some problems with the
echo program. Look at our agenda tonight. I mean, there are some issues with it. And I asked Dr. Burbal point blank. Do we need more people? Because I respect this man. Do we need more people working full-time
on this? And I believe what he told me. And he said, I don't believe we do. we're in a we're in a good spot. And then on the flip side of that, when you have 302 projects, I mean, come on. Percentage-wise, you're gonna have a couple that aren't going to follow through on what they said they're going
to do. I I don't think you're ever going to get 100% alignment with what we want. But we as the stewards and good stewards, I might say, of the taxpayer money is we want to make sure that the public knows we're going to hold you
accountable. We're going to ask for that money back. It needs to go back to the taxpayers and all of that is appropriate. I don't want us to do something that's not appropriate tonight or any night. Which is why I respectfully request you not follow through with what you said
you were going to do and let coolerheads prevail and and let this gentleman respond if he wants to. Not saying he has to, but if he's listening online, if he wants to respond to any of it, you know, he he can. Um, I know he's passionate about it, but we have a
couple of people in our community who send us emails and they're smart people and they're passionate about this echo program and the forever program and they make me stop and think before I'm voting on these things and and I like that. And John, you've heard me say it. There are
things we're going to agree upon and things we're not going to agree upon. And that's okay. That's okay. You know, I mean, not to call them out, but Greg Gimpert came up today and I think had a couple members up here start thinking about possibly a
question they never thought about before. I'm appreciative of that. Thank you for taking the time to drive to the land to do that. Told you I wouldn't use all my time. 32 seconds left. >> Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Greg, you
made me think today, too. I'll say that before, but I didn't know he was your appointee. And out of respect for you, I will not make that motion. But to clarify, um some of the statements that were made
over there, my he didn't make opinion statements in his email. In his emails, he basically said findings of his fact. He said that the consultant's preliminary findings is what was given to the board. It was very clear from these two individuals that it was the
final findings. And again, I won't go to it. There's at least three things in his email that he says are findings of fact according to him. Not I don't like the recommendations. I respect that. Opinions are good. Dialogue is good. It's not what he did. I respect these
individual. I respect your service and and and what's happening in Valuchia and other parts of Florida. I'm tired of the misinformation. That is my motive. And I don't care who it was. Didn't know it was your appointee. But out of respect for you as a colleague, I will not make that motion. But I hope individuals
know, especially when they're representing this council, they have they have to operate to a higher standard just like we all have to also. >> Thank Thank you, David. >> Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah. I don't know if we had the vote yet on >> We haven't had a vote yet. >> Yeah. Okay. On this is whether even to
proceed. Jake, >> Mr. Chairman, >> correct? >> Point of order here. >> We have a open item to discuss 11 public policy for echo. We haven't touched the f first one yet. We've been talking for
20 minutes. Point of order. I request that we start with public policy one and go through all 11 and then in council comments we can we can talk about this some more. >> Jake, I don't we don't have the vote for that yet. So, first I'll call the vote
if we for the motion on the table which is to go through them because we don't know if the council wants to go through them or not. Um >> there's a motion in a second to go through all 11 yet >> and then we'll vote on each of the 11 however many Brad wants to bring us if the council
>> question >> council approves it. >> Did you want to speak to that issue? Don >> speak to the issue of I don't see the harm in waiting two weeks. That's my point. This guy, you know, even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
This guy might have really good points to add that we haven't thought about. Just like you said, David, Mr. Gimbert out there, he brought up thoughtprovoking statement up there. So, I I don't know what's going to come out of this person's mouth, but I don't see the harm
in waiting two weeks. >> I don't understand. I'm not here to decide if bad Brad's the bad guy or he's the bad I don't care. I I trust Brad, but you know, I know of this gentleman and I have no reason. I don't know. But
I just I'd like to hear from him. He's obviously got a lot of time invested in this and he wants to review it more. I just I don't see the harm in waiting two weeks. People continue trials all the time for a month or so because of different things that come up. This guy wants to review everything and give his
input and I don't see the harm in it. So, I'm a no on Jake's motion to move forward and just ask that we reset it for the first Tuesday of February. >> Okay. Then um I'll I'll call the vote and whoever agrees will vote that way
and and um if if this fails then you can make that motion to um to bring it up in two weeks. >> Okay. >> I think just can you repeat the motion for us? The motion on the table right now is to
go through the 11 U items that Brad wants us to make a decision because each one of them has options and we need to make a decision on. Correct. Okay. All right. Uh I don't know again
>> I want Ted's job. >> So um are you ready for me chair? >> No. We have to have a we have to have a vote on whether or not we're going to proceed. Carissa, would you call the role? >> Thank you. >> Motion on the tables. Do we even proceed with Brad's 11 motions? >> Mr. Santiago.
>> No. >> Mr. Dempsey? >> No. >> Mr. Johansson? >> Yes. >> Mr. Kent? >> No. >> Mr. Reinhardt? >> Yes. >> Mr. Robbins? >> No. >> Mr. Brower? No. So we we don't proceed
tonight. Um >> judge or judge chair, I make a motion that we >> do do I get a do I get a raise? >> This is my night shift job and yeah foggy still. I I make a motion that we
uh continue this till the first uh council meeting in >> second. Johansson >> I didn't hear the date the first meeting in >> February if that's okay. >> Okay. Is there uh >> you have a date? >> January or February
>> February >> February >> February 3rd. Okay. The motion on the floor now is to continue this discussion to the February 3rd county council discussion >> meeting. Um yeah. Yeah, if there's no
questions for that discussion on that motion. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, >> wait, we don't have a second yet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Second, Johansson. >> Okay. I must be losing my hearing on my left right here. >> Okay. Motion was by Don, second by Jake
Johansson. >> Go ahead. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And and with that said, if if the maker of the motion is okay to direct through George our staff to make sure they meet with the individual who sent this email and maybe have minutes of that conversation afterwards,
deposition if you want to call it that, but I don't want to call it that. But I'd like to have minutes for the council to say what was discussed at that um at that update. Fair enough. >> Okay. >> I'd amend my motion to reflect what
David wants. amend my second. >> I'm not I'm not clear of how to word the the motion. The motion is to table it, but you want staff to make sure that they discuss well well Don's motive was to allow this individual this time to to do whatever
they want to do. So I I supported that. But I want to make sure that staff has a detailed record of us what was discussed during those updates for that individual so we can proceed for the people. >> I can support that. Yeah. >> Okay.
All right. Uh council uh county manager George Rectenwald. >> Yeah. I just to maybe build on what Mr. Santiago said. You know the individual in question we're blind to all that. He didn't send
any of those questions or emails or anything to my staff or myself. So, we'll be happy to talk with him. Matter of fact, looking forward to it. Uh because I don't understand
uh you know why it went the way it did. There was no reason for that. We're ve very available. So, I I think we should have that conversation before we bother this council's time next time. And I apologize that uh um >> not your fault, George. No apology
needed. Not your fault. Not your team's fault. >> That's why I want the record so we can make a decision. >> Okay. The motion on the floor is to table this until February uh the 3. Uh motion by Don, second by Councilman Johansson. All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? And motion carries seven to zero. Item seven, requesting authorization to enforce restrictive covenants and pursue legal remedies for echo project Lilian
Place historic home. >> Correct. So, the Hodgekus Mather House was a voluntary um request to rescend and reimburse. Um at the same time as we were having compliance issues with uh the Hodkus Mather House, we were also having um problems. I would say not as
many but still same problems with um Lily in place where they have committed to timelines to complete the work and it would not be done on multiple occasions. And so um felt it was prudent to bring forward this compliance issue along with
H. Hot. Hotchkas Mather um even though the grantees have um agreed to use the proceeds from Hodgekus Matherther to improve Lilian Place. What this motion to do today would authorize us to pursue
all legal remedies um associated with the restrictive covenant. Is >> that correct? >> Yes. >> So it would allow us to you know the question was asked at the echo committee could this lead up to us foreclosing on the house and forcing them to sell it
and yes it could. Um that's what we're asking today is to start that process. The Lilian House representatives will ask for additional time. um based on their plan to use the proceeds from Hotchkus Matherther to improve Lillian.
So motion to approve. >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion to uh approve um enforcing the restrictive covenants. The motion by uh Troy Kent and the
second I believe was by Vice Chair Reinhardt. We have a motion. Any uh questions for staff before we go to There's several members of the public that want to speak on this. Any questions first of Brad? Okay. Then I'll call your name and just
come forward. You have three minutes to discuss item seven. First is Melissa Thorne. Good evening, council. Melissa Thorne, Dand district 1. So, I'm speaking tonight about the two
black eyes that we now have with Echko. And I don't know how many other black eyes we've had concerning this program, but it is a shame that we're here discussing these two homes that $900,000
of taxpayer money has gone to with zero results, zero use for the taxpayer. And now we're trying to recoup this money. And we're trying to figure out how to go about doing it. Well, suing is not going to help because that's going
to cost more taxpayer money and technically the taxpayer should actually own this property by now. They've had how much how long how many years have they had since they've had our money, right? So, I'd just like to say I had a
friend in the echo meeting who attended and the friend said that the house is supposed to be sold to some unidentified group for under the market value and while at the meeting we learned that after being sold the house could be demolished and property developed with
condos and someone could end up profiting greatly on property that taxpayers and citizens of Valuchia County invested greatly in. It's quite a bit of money and it is in a very prominent local. So, we don't really
have any say once the properties are sold, who buys it, who builds on it, what happens to those properties. I think we should really consider our options, what we should do. Coming from a county that wants to
represent its constituents, $900,000 is quite a bit of money. Some disturbing little side notes. The Heritage Preservation Trust that received over $900,000 from Echko could sell the Hushkin Mather House and pay
off both grants and own a nice little piece of property on the inter coastal that is zoned for condos. And to think if the 20-year rule was in place as it is now for new grants, they could wait a few more years and have both homes on the inter coastal free and
clear. Just a few thoughts. I do appreciate you gentlemen. Have a lovely evening. >> Thank you for your comments, John Nicholson. John County beach side. Yeah, I guess
that's true. Um, anything's possible. It's in my city. Um, I voted for Echo. I believe in its benefits. I believe in the wording of echo environmental
cultural historic and outdoor outdoor non. So when we look at these things all of us have a u an issue that we would back. All right.
Mine is one of them is historic. Lillian place is an historic place. And Danny, you said the city saved an historic property on the other side of the bridge. No, we just tore it down last week. All right. The city has no
interest in preserving historic. It is uh for one of a better word under a new uh city manager who uh is definitely not controlling city
commission. They are controlling him and the money is going into Midtown. So they don't have any money and no desire to save Lillian Place. So if you guys decide to come down with a hammer, which is what it sounds like Brad wants to do,
uh the city's not going to do anything. It doesn't have the backing. Uh because the way we redistricted, we basically have no representation on the beach side. All right. We have someone who represents downtown and Midtown that
lives on the beach side. We have one gentleman who lives on the beach side and he represents downtown and Midtown. And then we have a third one who is city oriented. She doesn't know what she's doing, but she wants to represent the whole city and doesn't want to represent
Beachside alone. So we basically have no one who's pushing for beatside in which Lilian Place exists. So without you, it has the ability to be torn down. All right. The I met the lady who wants to
buy H Hotska's house. She wants She says she wants to renovate it. She owns property in in Palm Coast, a bar, and I believe she wants to live there. This is what she says. And I generally take people at their word. So, I'm
asking you not to come down with a hammer to give them time because they have not had money. All right? This gives them the money to fix all the things they need to fix. And if they don't, then you come down with a hammer.
But don't put the pressure on them to where they feel they have to sell the property or that they do something stupid and don't fix the things appropriately and and with character of the house. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh David Glasser. >> Yes, sir. Thank you again. Um I don't I'm not going to restate what I just said, but it it is a beautiful building with a long history uh in the city. We've had a number of events over the
years for the public. It's not an easy situation to maintain uh financially. We we acknowledge that obviously if we were able to do that, we wouldn't be selling Hodka's house, but we'd ask you to consider if we receive the monies from
the the remaining monies from the sale of Hodka's house. We have Miss Miss Dillard has formed a plan exactly how the monies would be spent. It's for the benefit of the community and the community's history. Can you imagine
right now selling Hoska's house to a third party private individual? That's that's not easy. But if this happens again, um it's just obvious. There's nothing magical. It's a piece of the city's history that's going to be gone.
These buildings are on the beach side. They're not far from the beach. members of the public come, they're set off. It's a beautiful location. I don't know if you've seen it. Um, but inside it's just like going back into time when you're walking through the kitchen and
the living area uh and and and take a tour. Um, it's just it's a piece of the history of Daytona. If it's gone like nothing, it's like an extinct animal. It's going to be gone forever. and and we're we're working hard. Uh Mr. and
Mrs. Dillard are working hard along with the board. We'll work with the city. Whatever needs to be done, if you want the monies earmarked, to work with city officials, I'm sorry, the county. I'm sorry, the county. Thank you. The county to earmark the monies to track them down
where they're spent, the timeline, something along that line as opposed to following what we call legal remedies, which can be done. That's where we'd ask your consideration for more time. Um, we are making progress. We have made a lot
of progress over the years just having events, doing things, fixing things. It's been a prog. It's a process. And if you think about the age of the buildings, it's only I think it's like 16 years. That's not a long period of
time over over a continuum with with the maintenance. So we'd ask you to consider, you know, the reject the request and and to keep this open for us to continue on the progress that we've made. Thank you for your consideration.
>> Thank you for your comments. Uh Fran Dillard, Fran Dillard, Orman Beach. Um, first thing I want to say is Lilian Place is 143 years old. There is always going to
be something wrong. Uh, the second thing is we don't have a history of non-compliance with Lily in place. Uh, we met with Daniel and Jill in April. We got a notice in May. We replied to that
notice as to what our plan of action was to correct the um issues at Lilian Place. What is written up in our opinion is a little overstated. We we do have windows that in the tower that have
blown out u many times during storms, but we're working with a contractor and we told Daniel and Jill this in November. We have a contractor. he's ready to go as soon as this um property hotresses closes. Every bit of that
money is going to go into stabilizing Lillian, not just fixing what Ekko has written us up for, uh but to establish um accounts for capital improvements that we know we're going to need in the future. Uh we have a preventive
maintenance program so that we can go through the problem areas which are the windows, the railings, the porches, things like that. We have um a fund for um doing the painting on the house which was only painted 5 years ago. It might need to be powerwashed. The other thing
we want to do is put a fence up. When the bridge went in on um Silver Beach, the Orange Avenue bridge went in, they took down the fence. So we are overrun with homeless. We have a guy that constantly goes under the porch and shoots up. It scares our volunteers. A
fence around the property. We would be able to do that to keep the property secure and to keep our volunteers safe. Um we did hit a brick wall. The pro project has always been underfunded, but utilizing the funds from Hotchus House
so that we can continue um with Lillian, I think we can stabilize the program, maybe get to the 40-year. I mean, that would the house would be another 16 years old. So, um anyway, uh we just want another chance.
We have the funds. We plan to utilize them. We have a contractor who is ready to go as soon as we have the closing. The prospective buyers are are patient. They're they're waiting for us to work out all of these issues, but they're committed to buying Hotchkus, and we
just need some more time so that we can move it forward. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Um, this is a tough one for me. it um
history and historical places hold a a place in my heart especially over in that area. I guess my question was u she had mentioned a preventative maintenance plan. Um and I guess the very first thing in my head was that
costs money. You know what do you do after after you do to sustain it? You just said it's 143 years old and it's not getting any younger. You it's on the beach side uh exposed to the elements of nature, exposed to storms, termites.
It's a wooden structure. So, I guess that part kind of scares me. Um, but I'd be interested if anybody else had any comments about that before we uh before we vote. >> Thank you, chair. >> If I may share two points of
clarification. So, okay. >> They did propose a plan um to, you know, rectify the situation at Lillian. The plan was not fully executed until 2027. And so another two years of out of or year out of compliance and that's why we
brought it to council. >> Um it's an additional 27 years they have on the restrictive covenant. So 203. >> Okay. Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah. I mean this is such a historic landmark. I mean, I think we should give
them all the opportunity reasonably that they need to try and preserve this property because, you know, it really is uh a miracle that it's still standing after all these years and storms. So, um I'm in favor of just going along with
Mr. Glasser's plan and just, you know, see what happens after they sell the other parcel and hopefully they'll keep their word. I have no reason to doubt Mr. Glasser. I've known him for over 30 years. He's a a wellrespected attorney in the community and I have no reason to think he would lie about their game
plan. So, um I just I would like to go along with their plan and let them go ahead and sell the other property, use it for Lilian and uh see if they can get it back into into good shape. So, it'll be a you know, something for generations
to look at and admire hopefully. Thanks. Uh yeah, brought up a couple more questions for me. I guess we're past the question stage. I'm just looking at the uh the motion that was made. What it requires is that they come into compliance or or remit payment of
$425,000 by February 16th. And that doesn't give them time to cash the check and make any repairs. I'm Brad. What you're telling us is that you you brought it here
because you've already given them a second chance and they went two years and nothing happened. I you know my my heart agrees with Don and Matt that we don't we don't have many historic places
like this available and I would like to see it preserved and not become u condominiums but I also we have an obligation not to just keep throwing good money after bad because it's not our money it's
taxpayers money but I uh I'm searching for a reason of of how they can pull this off. Um, and I'm assuming that the staff doesn't think it's possible. I I I wouldn't characterize I just I
think if we brought May there without Lillian, it would be pointed out that we were, you know, we weren't doing the right thing. I thought it was the right thing to bring them both at the same time. Um, you know, if we do allow, what Serena's just conferring with me, if we
do allow them more time, we would suggest entering into an agreement that says, you know, in lie of the legal action, we give you this amount of time. Um, if not, then we'll pursue the legal action. >> Okay. That that's not the that's not the
motion now. So, we'd have to vote this down and then do another motion or uh >> chairman or your motion. Or I or I could withdraw my motion unless someone else or or amend it. And the only reason I would do that is because Don Dempsey is
is right. David Glasser is an amazing human being. And um you know, I'm I'm appreciative that he showed up tonight to speak on these issues. And um Brad, tell me what you would need in in
the motion because I can amend my motion. So, um, do we need the authorization to enter an agreement with the Heritage Preservation Trust and a timeline to come in a a period of time that you would allow them to come into
compliance? >> Uh, council, how much time are we are we talking about, >> David? How much time >> how much time is required? >> So, I would say six months is what they're mentioning, Mr. Glasser, but I would say 6 months from the closing of
Hodgekus Mather, >> they have to come into compliance. >> Yes, sir. >> 6 months from the closing of >> the mayor you just mentioned. So, I don't want to brutal brutalize the name. >> Yes, >> Mr. Kent. >> Yes. >> May I ask a question before you make a
motion? I just didn't >> This may be a legal question. Brad, you might be able to answer this. Between now and that six months that's being proposed, and I'm sorry it' be such a pain in the butt. If this thing falls in or the termites take out a loan bearing wall and this thing caves in, a storm
comes by or floods and the natural disaster, whatever the case may be. How do taxpayers get their money back if that happens? I'm just I'm looking like like uh Mr. Chairman and and several others. I'm looking at uh money is I understand that
we want to um protect this if we can, but I need to know that our our taxpayers are in district 3 are protected as well from a bad investment. >> Good evening. Experience like assistant county attorney. Uh our protections in the restrictive covenants, we have a lean against the property. So if the
property was destroyed or whatever, then we would have to enforce our lean against the property. And you know, if they couldn't comply because the property is no longer there, it would be through either asking them to voluntarily pay back the lean amount or we'd have to file a legal action to
enforce the lean amount. So, you know, if there's destruction of the property, whatever, um they we would have to work with them to figure out how we would recover our lean. Um, Miss Slack, so if we have 400 some odd thousand dollars in it now and for
instance, if they get more in the line and this happens and that exceeds the overall property value, which will be land value cuz you'll have a pile of sticks. Um, how are we going to get taxpayer money back? >> I think as with the the other property,
we are probably first priority on our lean right now. >> Okay. because our lean is uh was a purchase lean. Our monies were used to purchase the property originally. So, our lean should be first in priority as a purchase money lean. I mean, it's restricted covenant, a
statutory lean, but it's still first in time as far as recording. >> And council, so you know where I'm coming from. Um down there by uh Cracker Creek, the original Disney >> Jake, what's that called? I forget that. I'm just trying to play. >> Gamble place, right? Probably at one
point it was worth saving, but the um degradation and the termites and uh the structural it got to such a point where it was not cost effective or efficient. We'd all like to save it. It's a pet a part of Florida
Florida history. Um but the amount of money to to keep putting in it, it's just not and that's why it's fallen into a state of of primary dis disrepair. I'm going to try to support the board of West I can, but this needs to be a
business deal. This is business and and and that's the way I'm looking at it. >> Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah. So, I can just so I'm clear, what is the historic significance of this property, Brad? So, uh, it was the first house on
Beachside in Daytona Beach and it's on the National Register of Historic Places. >> Okay. And how much land is there? Does it sit on? >> Just under an acre is what Sabrina and that Miss Dillard are conveying. And we
have no best guesstimate of what it would be if if it was just land if everything collapsed. And >> I mean an acre on the river I think would probably go for more than 425. Okay. >> Based on my >> So even if the worst case scenario that Danny poised proposed poised
>> whatever he posed, we'd still be covered to get our money back. >> Yes, I believe so. >> Well, best educated guess. >> Yes, sir. >> All right, that's all. Thanks, guys. >> Councilman Santiago, briefly briefly, Brad. Remind me what happens with this
six months if we approve this. What what >> it allows them so we can move to legal action as as reported in the agenda in February. So next month it allows them six more months till we move to that process to either uh come into compliance >> which means what
>> they'll continue to provide they will make the repairs and continue to provide access um and events for the public. It's all about public access. How much in repairs do they still have approximately in dues or expenses? >> So approximately
so the guess is and I believe they have some quotes from um contractors but $11,000 is what's being conveyed to me. So $11,000 is holding them up from being in compliance. That's why I think they would do the right thing if they had the money. They
just don't have the money. >> And and do they have a do they have an adequate business plan to achieve the money? >> So the the money is coming. So, I think that the money would come from the Hodgekus made their sale, which right
now, if they proceed with their 875 offer, >> um, leaves them $300,000 to create a capital investment fund as she as she mentioned in addition to the >> I forgot about that. Thanks for reminding me. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yeah, we're we're asking we're asking
Brad questions because we have to kind of trust it. It's it's not it's an uncomfortable position, but it's you know I I it sounds like we we want the house to be saved. I'm wondering if 6 months is long enough to get contractors to to repair everything. I mean it's
it's a pretty busy county now. So, you know, we're all going to have to decide that. But chairman, >> so the >> if you don't mind, um the six months is because that's what they said. They they they said six months. So, I'm going to amend my motion to add the six months uh
that we had talked about uh actually that they had they had mentioned um so that they can get the other house hopefully sold and then get this one in compliance. So, that's my my amended motion. >> So, basically, we're giving them and
Matt, you made the second. Would you you still second it? So, basically, we're just we're amending item seven to postpone it for six months before we lower the hammer. And um I pardon me. >> It's it's only been 140 years.
>> Yeah. >> I hope you're successful if this I don't know how the vote will go. We're I'm going to call the vote here in just a second. Um I'd have asked for more time than six months, but um that kind of scares me. Um
uh but that's the motion on the floor is to postpone the uh uh to delay this for 6 months before the we enforce a restrictive covenants. Chris, would you call the role or did you want to say something else? >> Time clock starts when the closing happens for Hodkus Mather not from
today. >> Correct. >> Good. >> Mr. Santiago, Mr. Dempsey. >> Mr. Johansson. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kent. >> Yes. Mr. Reinhardt, >> yes. >> Mr. Robbins, >> no.
>> Mr. Brower, >> yes. >> And the motion passes 6 to one. Um, go get it done. >> Okay, >> it's time for vacations.
>> Move to proof. Item eight. Hold on you guys. This is a quasi judicial hearing. Does uh item eight is a proposed vacation of a portion of Greenland subdivision. Um does anyone have any exparte to
declare on this item? >> None. None. None for me. Move to approve. >> Second. >> This is why he wants your job. He doesn't I don't think once he understands their job, he's not going to want that one.
>> Brad. >> David Santiago makes the motion to uh approve. Who was the second? Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any uh questions for Tad? No. Any uh comments? All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? And that motion also car that vacation is approved uh 7 to zero. Item nine is also a quasi judicial hearing. It is a vacation of a portion
of WH posers subdivision. Does anyone have any experte to declare? >> Motion to approve. >> No. Uh Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve. Don't be so smug, Tad. Is there a second on and the second is
by Councilman Vice Chair Robbins. Any questions, comments? All in favor say I. Any opposed? And that v vacation is approved. Also 7 to zero. Item 10 is also a quasi judicial
hearing and it's for a proposed vacation of a portion of a poinsettto poinsetta park. Does anyone have any exparte due to declare on this one? Motion to approve. There is no exparte. Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve. Vice Chair Reinhardt makes the
second. Uh questions for Tad. Discussion. All in favor say I. >> I. And that vacation is approved. 7 to zero. And he never uttered a single. >> I had a question for Tad. >> Tad, how's your night going? Good.
>> Better than Bratz. Item 11 is uh public hearing for meds transcorporation doing business as Shan's care certificate of public conveyance. Good morning. Good afternoon sir. Good
evening evening. It's evening. Uh good evening. Certificate of public convenience necessity air transport for Medtrans UF Health Shansare. Uh it's outlined in the agenda item in front of you. We have staff and house internal as well as medrans and chanceare if there's any
questions. >> Move to approve. >> Second. >> We have a motion to approve by councilman Reinhardt. Second was by vice I'm sorry by uh by David Santiago. The second was by vice chair Reinhardt.
>> Yes sir. >> Any questions for he or staff? Danny stepped out >> and uh there's no questions for him. Any comments, debate? We have one member absent. We'll ask him when he comes in.
He's out of the room. Uh but we'll call for the vote to approve this. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And it's approved six to zero. So regardless of what the seventh vote does, you're approved. But we will get
his vote. Item number 12 is uh also an open public hearing ordinance 2026-01 amending the merit rules in the county's code of ordinance. Uh Councilman
Reinhardt. >> Yes, sir. Dana, I got your we all got your receipt of your letter regarding the email. Thank you very much for clarifying that. I think everybody up here got the same email uh regarding a citizen that had concerns over that. Um I did try to explain the same scenario.
Um we've had merit rules. I've been with the county 30 plus years. So it's there to protect its staff. I know this. We have a great robust system as far as a grievance procedure that's explained in it. So thank you very much for clarifying that. I appreciate that.
>> Mr. Chairman, move to approve. >> Okay. >> Second. We have a motion to approve by David Santiago, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> You could have sent Tad up to present. He's kidding. >> I'm checking to see if I have uh one
question. I think it was actually answered by your uh your response. Actually, I had the question before I got that email, but um okay. Nope, I'm I'm good with it. So, we have a motion and a second to pass. Any
questions, comments? All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? And that passes six to zero. Is he coming back? You see, Tad, you're not the only one that can do it that way. She did just as
good, but not Ben. Item 13 is ordinance 2026-03, ordinance dissolving uh traffic engineering division. We are actually shrinking the size of
government and saving some money. Is that what you're going to tell us? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, go ahead. Um so before you tonight is an ordinance that uh like you said dissolves the traffic engineering division. Uh we will move the responsibilities for the maintenance of the traffic signals to
road and bridge and we will move the uh engineering responsibilities associated with transportation planning studies and development review to engineering and construction. Um Tad clearly doesn't have enough work to do so we wanted to give him some more stuff. But um joking
aside, this is a you know, this council's been very clear on uh looking at things, looking for efficiency, looking to reduce costs, and that's what we did. Uh here we're going to have a an annual budget savings of about $234,000 through the reduction of funded
positions and reduction in job classifications. Happy to answer any questions. >> Okay, questions. Uh, Councilman Dempsey, >> this doesn't mean more roundabouts in Valuchia County, does it? >> Roundabouts are good. They're safe. I'm
I'm I'm going to >> stick up for roundabouts. The the the traffic a the serious traffic accidents and the safety involved with roundabouts is significantly better. And during a hurricane or when power outages, you don't have to worry about signals going on the blink. So, >> Okay. But is that is that like part of
the uh I know we don't have to have as many traffic light engineers or is this is this all like kind of geared towards all roundabouts and no more traffic lights? >> No, no, no, no. A roundabout a roundabout. No, this has this has nothing to do with roundabouts.
>> No, sir. This is this is strictly um we have our uh our previous traffic engineering director uh left. Actually, we stole them from the DOT. they stole them back and and management is very clear when we have position openings, we should take a look and see, you know, is
there room for efficiency, you know, those kinds of things. And we we talked about it, we we studied it and we felt that this was the best way to go and consolidating uh this functions into other divisions and, you know, eliminating some positions and saving some money.
>> All right. Thanks. >> Uh Ke Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt, you had questions? >> Yes, sir. Um, I already know the answer to this, Ben, but just for clarification, so the public's aware, >> we handle all the traffic lights in Valuchia County with exception to one city. >> Correct. >> City of Daytona Beach. Correct. They
handle their own. >> Yes, sir. >> And we also handle the ones for the state. >> Yes, sir. Through contract. >> Through contract agreement that we get reimbured for. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, and then everything else we handle. Now, there are some roads that intersections. Could you explain that for me one more time? That's the part I
I want a clarification on. the inter some intersections that have a county road that intersects with a state road or if it is a county road that intersects with a city road and namely Daytona Beach who handles that light. >> Basically, for the most part, most of the traffic signals within Daytona Beach
are maintained by the city of Dayton >> by the city regardless of the road intersection. Okay. And same would apply if there was a state road that ran through the city, they would take care of that as well. >> Yeah. The state contract. So we're outside that sir that >> and even on the state system the state still responsible for timing and things like that
>> timing of that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you chair. >> Councilman Kent. >> Thank you chairman and Ben. Not that you need me to stick up for you but I'll just say and um it didn't matter if it was a council didn't matter if it was a
morning meeting or an afternoon meeting. When I left my sweet little Orman Beach and came over to the big city of Dand and got off, I believe on exit for State Road 44, I was always at that stoplight
for at least five, maybe 10 minutes. And since that roundabout, >> I have yet to have to stop. It is constant all the way through to Dand. So your roundabouts, you've you've got me sold on that one anyway. And it's not even finished yet.
>> No, sir. And and I'd love to take credit for it. That is a state project, but we were >> Yes, sir. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um >> and just real quick, the I'm sorry. Um that is an that is an annual savings. So
that's a reoccurring savings that we're going to see from this. >> All right. If somebody made a motion, I didn't write it down. >> Motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Is there a second? Second uh by David Santiago.
And we've already had questions. Any other discussion? Half of us love roundabouts. Well, maybe all of us but done. Um all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And
is eliminated seven to zero. Before I go further, Danny, I need to get back with you on item uh 12, amending the mayor rules vote >> 60. >> That's not the way for
>> 60 to approve it. And then also for the uh public hearing for Medr Corporation, the vote is six to zero and it's now seven to zero. Okay.
>> Item 13. Oh, been waiting for this all night. >> Item 14, discussion of backyard chicken regul. That's right. Carol McFarland, planning and development services director. Um we are here to talk about
chickens. Backyard chickens have been allowed by ordinance since 2018. Um they're allowed with a conditional use in certain zoning classifications. I'm going to try to go through this quickly. I hope you're you're okay with that. So uh we do have 11 conditions.
They're mostly I'm not going to go through all of them. They're in your packet. They're mostly related to public health and nuisances. The specific request from council is to look at the minimum lot size that allows backyard chickens. So, what we find is
that the um one of the conditions is that it be on a a quarter of an acre, 10,000 square ft, 10,890 square ft. And what you see in yellow there is that several of the zoning classifications that their backyard chickens are allowed, they actually
don't meet that the minimum lot size for the zoning classification is less than 10,890 square ft. So we have a lot of properties that are in the right zoning, but if they're built to minimum lot size, they don't meet the criteria.
So we did a little bit of research into uh municipalities and adjacent counties. Seven out of 16 of the municipalities in Valuchia County have backyard chicken regulations. Uh only two have a minimum lot size requirement. The rest default back to the minimum lot size of the
zoning classification. Since 2018, we've had a total of three conditional use permits for backyard chickens. Um I think two of them actually uh never finished going through the process. They didn't pick up their
placard. We've had at the same time period 62 code cases related to chickens. Almost all of them were uh related to having a rooster. And the roosters are terrible. I can attest to that. So, council, we're asking you some
um some direction on where we go with this ordinance. Um whatever we end up doing today, um we would have to take to the PLDRC for additional workshopping. Then it would come back to the council. It looks like you need answers to four questions
>> on this. >> Yes, I have. >> So, you have what? >> I had a question. >> Okay. Um for questions, Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Um and I'm good with all these. Can a requirement also be,
you know, the county has a um program there at the fairgrounds, the training and whatnot in order to is that can that be accompanied into this? >> Absolutely. >> As a requirement. So um right now it's the UF the IFAS um class. So that is a
requirement now um >> to repeat it >> that you provide like a certification from that class. So that's something that's required now if you want that to not be a requirement. >> I'm I'm getting a little bit of >> No, I and I'm good with this gentleman.
If if I'll let Mr. I'll yield to Mr. Santiago then I had a comment here. >> Did I Did I Mr. Chair if I may? >> Yes. Did I hear that they're required to take a class to have chickens? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Wow. >> Um
for me, Mr. Chair, I'll just c can we I'll ask a question and make a big statement. Can we just say in any residential property? We can just do that. It's permitted >> and not worry about lot sizes. >> There's certainly a lot that we can do to to limit those. Um we can allow in a
lot of lot of lot more zoning districts. We can remove the minimum lot size all together. So if you have it in your zoning, you can >> to my colleagues. I mean, this is unincorporated Valuchia. >> I said, let if it's a residential property, let them have it right. >> By right. >> By right. There you go. And I don't think people should have to take a class
either. >> I don't you don't have to take a a class fish. >> Let's Let's finish with questions. Uh did you have a question, Matt? >> Okay. Thank you. Then no, you're then let's go through the uh the four things
real quick so that we know what you know what we're telling you to do. The first one was it's uh either uh eliminating lot size or specifying I' I'd like to see it eliminated. >> Okay, eliminate that. Number two was uh
fencing of pens required um or a hedge. I you know no hedge for me. Don't make it more expensive. Um, >> they don't work. They could just go right through ahead. >> They'd go right through it. So, what about fences?
>> If they have a coupe, why shouldn't they have a fence? >> Well, >> they're not they're not required to have a coupe yet. >> Yeah, because right now the code just says uh that they have to be visually screened from an adjacent neighbor, not that they have to be enclosed. So, so
can the can the chicken can the chicken go to the neighbor's place? >> That's what happened. >> And they do. >> Why would the chicken cross the road though? >> Um >> they're pretty destructive when they do. >> Yeah. I'm not a big fan of that. >> How about How about just to simplify it? Require one or the other. You either
have a fence or you either have a coupe. >> Yeah. >> You have an option. I would say that I I think that's perfect >> to be retained on their property. >> Yes. >> Somehow >> by fencer coupoop. Yeah. >> Yes. >> And if they're smart, they'll go with a
mobile coupe, >> right? >> So, we we do recommend um keeping the operational standards such as the predator proofing, um sanitation, prohibition of roosters, um and composting controls. Um, one option that we do have as far as whether
we get a conditional use or not is would you want the property owners to possibly self-certify for the conditional use that they're just going to meet these regulations or another option is is no conditional permit at all just be allowed by right
>> and yeah >> let's let's deal with this one no requirements just by right >> so the only reason chairman I I could go along with this is because A couple of my fellow council members I think have had or have chickens. Like I I don't I
think staff has this list of things because I think things have gone sideways in the past with people that have chickens and you know you live next to that. I'm always worried about that. I'm I'm worried about I mean I don't live in uninccorporated but I'm worried about my neighbor moving in. It's a
rental house and you know they have 30 chickens and the next thing you know I mean it's my backyard is now not inhabitable because of that. I think staff is thank you rightfully just trying to ring the bell a little bit and say hey. So I have a little hesitation
because it seems like we're quickly like hey just let's get rid of this. If you if you're in the county unincorporated you you can do this. You know just rules are off. Let's just go. I just I just say I don't want this to come back and bite
us. I don't want us to have these chambers filled with people going, "Whoa, what you did was wildly out of control." That's all. But I started this and I'll end it with I've never had chickens and some of you I believe have
and if you're comfortable with this then you could get me there. >> Yeah. Um Matt, your name is up first. >> Thank you, chair. I this item was brought I think it was May the May 6 I I brought it up um due to a a constituent
that had asked for this and I think we're only limiting it to to the five chickens. Correct. >> That's the um limit right now. >> The limit is five, right? >> Um and also based on the property size and whatnot. >> Well, no. I mean that that's up consideration. You know what I mean?
Like if you had a half acre or more, you know, maybe you would want more chickens. >> If you had more property and and we had the either a coupe or fencing requirement, then they could have more um >> three eggs a day. >> Exactly. >> Breakfast.
>> So, um I I'll wait to hear what Mr. Robinson >> and And this is just this is in urban areas. >> Yes. This is unincorporated. So, so the rest of it is is >> All right, Councilman Robbins. Thank
you, Chair. I'd like to try to follow the same methodology like we did for the um the sh the sheds, right? Let's not over complicate this. They're chickens. If
Matt's chicken or Jake's chicken comes in my yard in the country, it becomes my chicken because it's going to be on my plate, >> right? That's how things kind of work, right? If there's a problem, we talk to our neighbors, okay? If it's destroying us, we talk to them. This is not a big
deal. It's not in the city. Um, I don't want to over complicate this. Like building permits, all this stuff. And the reason we're not having a lot of participation in this because people are saying, "I'm going to do this anyway. There's no enforcement action. Who cares? We're going to have chickens. If I get a call, I'll fix it." So, let's
not over complicate this. I don't want to take a something good thing. We're trying to promote uh uh agricultural stuff and and knowing where your food comes from and you can get rid of your scraps and put it in there uh for them to eat instead of sending it to the landfill. There's a hundred different
pluses to this. Um let's approve it. >> Okay. The uh I agree staff has asked us for answers on four items that it's it's pretty simple and we've taken we've taken care of two important ones. no lot size and we're requiring either a fence
or a coupe and that protects the neighbors. Um and the uh you know no permit required retain operational standards. I'd say if we want to give them something that tells you how tells them how to take care of chickens,
that's fine. But I don't want to require them to go to a class or >> um and and so the only other thing left Well, we building require the only other thing left for me is five chickens is a
horribly low number. I mean the uh the new pyramid for food has been turned upside down. Eggs are at top. Most requirements recommendations say eat three eggs a day. From five chickens, you might get two or three eggs a day.
You're not going to get five. They kind of lay every other day. Um depending on light and weather. Um so if you're a family of of three with five chickens, you can't even have breakfast. So, I would like to see it. And this, you
know, this council can determine it. Um, at least, yeah, I was going to say 10. I just heard Danny say 20. I'd love to say 20. I was trying to >> make sure it would would pass here. But I would like to see the number of chickens uh change since they're
confined and um and not going to be a nuisance to the neighbors. And if they are, the neighbor will will ring their necks. Is that against the law? Will they can they call animal control?
Okay. Uh, so numbers, Don Dempsey. >> Yeah. I'm just I don't know if you guys have ever been next to a a facility that has a lot of chickens. They smell. >> Oh, it stinks. >> Terribly smell. So the I saw that you
had a section in there about sanitation. Um, that's the only thing. I mean, we don't want roosters because we don't want them crowing and waking the neighborhood up all the time. Same thing. We got to think about um just unsanitary coups because it can I
mean it can smell bad if they're unkempt. So that's I'm not necessarily in f I'm okay with roosters necessarily, but the neighbors may not like that. Same thing with having a chicken outfit right next to you that's not kept clean
because it really it reeks. Um that's the only thing I'd like to maybe discuss. Either limit the chickens or require that they not emit odors that you know, you know, infringe on the neighbors quiet enjoyment of their property. >> That's is that something a code
enforcement could handle? >> Uh maybe >> if that was a complaint. >> Yeah, >> if that was a complaint. I'm saying if it was >> I'm sorry, chair. It's just I just threw it out there just to see what you all I'm glad to hear you at least acknowledge that they do smell.
>> If you have a lot of chickens, it smells bad. If if you have 10, that's why I said put them in a mogul coupe where you move it every day. You never have to clean it and it doesn't stink. We've had 200 egg birds. They nobody knew we had them. >> Okay. >> They don't smell because they were
moved. Um I I think the thing just to you know when you're dealing with a code like this, it could be any subject is it's got to be enforceable. >> So you don't want to put your staff in a situation to go out there determine
whether something stinks, do a smell test. So that's why you have number limits and the size of the coupe requirements because you're trying to address it from an objective way more specifically rather than entirely subjective.
>> Correct. Councilman Santiago. >> Good council there, Mr. Dyer. Um why don't we I I think Don's point is is valid because it could get that way. Raising a number. I'm just going to propose another idea. An acre or more can have 10 or more chickens. I think
under an acre. Stick to the five or six, but I'm just How you going to force any of this? I get you. So, I'm with you, but I landed. >> Okay. So, I think this is the last
question to be determined. the the numbers uh currently you you're saying five >> and um we don't have to have that number nailed down tonight. Um this will go back to the planning and land development regulation commission. So if you want them to come up with some
numbers as recommendations, we could do that as well. >> Okay. Okay. So you done with us with what you just got? Um, all in favor of of uh what we just said to go to the PLDRC
and have them knock it around. >> I We have no >> We have a motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt and a second by Johansson. I'm not going to be a chicken
by Johansson. Hansen. >> Okay. All right. Uh, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Opposed. All right. Backyard chickens.
And item 15, our last item, is the appointment of two council members and one citizen member for the 2026 property tax season and selection of the chair and vice chair of the value adjustment board. I think last year David was uh
chair, I was vice chair, and I actually ended up chairing the I think all of them. >> No, >> we only have three. >> I moved I move to make Jeff Brower chair of the value adjustment board
>> and >> and the vice chair >> and you'll be uh vice chair. >> Yes, sir. >> And I would nominate uh Mrs. Patterson uh to be the citizen advisory. She makes every meeting. She did a good job. >> Second.
>> Okay. Uh so Santiago Brower Patterson. Um second was by Vice Chair Reinhard. The motion came from David Santiago. All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? There are none. Do we have any closing
public participation? John's still here. We must >> I can still hear you, John. I promise. >> Okay. Uh, first up, John Nicholson. You may speak on any item that concerns
Valuchia County. Please watch your language. I went to school. Um, couple of things. One, David, I'm glad you're here. Um, reefs. All right. I know you're talking about it. I've seen the documentation
and you still don't have a policy on reefs. Apparently, you don't like reefs or you don't care to look into them. But the idea of replacing the sand year after year, when the city of Daytona Beach took out its cement steps to
replace them with breakaway wood, first hurricane up, they went. And so we went eight months without our tourists being able to get off the boardwalk. That doesn't make any sense. All right? It doesn't make any sense that these
people have to lose the beach every time there's a storm when we can prevent that. All right. Uh 20 years ago, a guy from Coco came up because he was a surfer came up with this plan, put a V-shape reef off the coast, and it adds
not only land, but it protects the property upland. It lowers the insurance costs. There are a lot of benefits. It stops the uh runouts so nobody dies. Okay. So, and it cost $5 million a mile. So, I came up with a plan because we
already do reefs with a previous uh city manager and we would get them for free. Our city uh manager decided no because he can't control it not to do it. But I'm asking you to think about the problem with
hurricanes and the damage to the upland is the force of the waves. So if you break that force, then you don't have a damage to the upland. That's what the islands do on the inter coastal that saves mainland.
It breaks the waves. So I'm asking you to look at that. Uh secondly, I was hoping at your meeting you'd discuss core responsibilities. I still don't know what all of you consider core responsibilities.
Uh I I read history and back I think in Turkey it's 7,000 years uh before Christ they had a civilization that was interested in art and all of the cultural things that we
now are deciding that are not of value. So what is the core responsibilities? Jeff brought it up. One person spoke about it and it was dropped immediately. So, personally, I think we need to know what you all think core responsibilities
are and I think the public needs to know because they can build on it. If it's soft sand and they don't know what's going to happen, they can't build on anything. So, I think we need to know what core responsibilities are. I want to bring up half penny sales tax.
>> A half a billion dollars from tourist is a lot of money. Okay. Uh, Greg Gimbert. All right, we finally get to the one y'all know I was here for. Um, so before I get Greg Gimber, 255 Avenue, Daytona
Beach, Florida. Before I get started on that, man, what a difference from the last time I was here. It's like night and day. Um, I just left Eltona before I came here. They had six cops. Um they had a list of things you could and couldn't do that read a lot like
unconstitutional. Article 58 Soviet tribunal and uh it was not the environment that you have here. The collegiate and I certainly didn't expect it either based on the last time I was here in the room. So bravo to all of y'all for uh
exceeding expectations based on those who came before you. So what have I got left? Two minutes. So, hey, I'm hoping to have a public conversation that I wasn't able to have one-on-one with some of you folks. And we've been trying to have this conversation for a long time. Uh, last council tried to forbid it.
We're going to talk about what we do with the poopy water and Deltona was just there tonight. They're facing a heck of a thing. For years, we've talked about we're running out of water. Running out of water. But any kid that's ever played in a bathtub knows you got the drain going, you can turn on the
water and you can determine whether you run out of water or not. And the rain works the same way with our aquafer, but we can't turn it on and off. And it's pretty obvious the clean water bubble is shrinking the more we the more we pump because we damn near drained Indian Lake and Tiger Bay forest to zero before we started refilling it with Daytona's
poopy water through the rehydration program. So anyway, all over the state, we have this crazy notion that when we overpump, we can be like Indiana Jones and switch the the skull of the clean water with some poopy water underground by shooting treated sewage under there.
And you know, they do the best they can. They scrape the big parts off and they chemically treat it and radiate it and let it settle in a pond and you scrape the clean off the top, put some more chemicals on it. Damn it. We did the best we could as close as we can get to drinking water. And it's still not good
enough to put in the river anymore. And you can't walk around with it on the ground, but all of a sudden it's safe enough to put in the aquifer. If we bury it deep enough where it'll never get to the clean stuff, like there's a magic cavern under there, it'll stay put. So, this is just the beginning of a
conversation that I hope you guys will start to have about the fallacy that we can take treated sewage and stick it in the aquifer and think we're protecting clean water instead of poisoning it if it's not safe to bring straight to tap
and it's not safe to put in the river. How in the heck is it safe to put in the river source? It it doesn't make walking around sense. and and poor Deltona tonight for after really trying very hard not to acknowledge what was going to happen there. They're going to come to grips with it tonight. I believe at
the end of the meeting and that there's no safe way to poison the aquifer. Not if you're going to take a little bit of river water, call it lake water, St. John's River water, and do the poopy water cleaning on it and put that in the aquifer and mix it with some other poopy water. And they're really going to admit
it tonight. And I hope the city of Deltona stops it. Thank you for opening the conversation and good night. Thank you for your comments. We'll go to uh county manager, you've taken care of one of your items and Senate Bill 180.
I have another uh letter request. Okay. this time and I I should have been passed out, but the Department of Transportation has asked on behalf of the uh Sunrail, the Central Florida Rail
Corridor folks, uh to uh put a letter of support from our council to the US Secretary of Transportation for monies to help with a bridge replacement over 1792 in Matland, Florida. This is a railroad bridge. in the railroad
corridor. So the uh Central Florida Rail Quartrer Commission will be responsible along with the Department of Transportation for that replacement. So we have uh penned up a letter of support uh because we would like uh to get that
grant uh to offset any costs we would have. we would be responsible uh if that bridge uh failed or needed replacement uh we uh are part of that uh unit and
it's done based on track miles. So we would share about a quarter of the expense. Move to approve. >> Second. Motion is to approve the uh the letter that we all have a copy of uh by David
Santiago. The second was by uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any questions for George on the letter? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And uh thank you George for providing that.
>> I have uh one more item. Um, I just based off the uh earlier uh comments, I asked the fire chief Joe King and our fire marshal to uh attend here. Uh, they're here to answer any questions. Uh, they do have an update, I think, on
the timing of a decision. Uh, we've asked the state fire marshall to weigh in on this uh sprinkler issue. So, why don't you guys come down and uh tell them tell them what the timeline is. Good evening, Fire Chief Joe King, Fire
Marshal Shane Lenu. >> Um, when the conversations were going on tonight, I spoke to the assistant director at the state just to find out where we were on our deck statement that we sent to the back in August, August 27th. Um, since then they he had told me
that they met this morning and he it was a kind of an apologetic. You know, we know we're required in 90 days to get you an answer. Um, he said you should expect to hear a response from us in the next week or so. Um, so we're hopeful that before two weeks before the council
meets again, we'll have our response back, which at least gives us some guidance on where we should go moving forward. >> Is there any >> response from who? from the state. So we we petition the state to clarify
those three questions. Do sting single family homes uh >> yeah the declaratory statement. >> Okay. Uh Councelman Robbins, you were up first. Go ahead. >> And and Chief, um once you get that
information, we'll be able to clean up that code. >> It definitely cleans up the intent of the language for us to make a decision. And then we talked to um the county's legal about putting together the review board. So if we need to do that at that
point, we can too. >> You know, I just think this is a common sense kind of thing >> to be honest with you. Um the quicker we can get rid of this and and have our checks and balances in place, the better you'll have my support, whatever you need. Um but we've dealt with it on the
west side a couple times, two or three times. Now we're dealing with it in mine. just it's a little much. So, like I I said uh back there a little while ago, you know, we have some of these instances that come up. If they want to sign a waiver and it releases off a
liability, turn them loose. And like I said earlier, you want to go build back 5 miles down Ranchette, you better get a quick pony if you want fire services. But hey, sign a release and we're good. I'm good with it. Whatever we can do to simplify this and get rid of this
headaches, I'm 100% for. Let these people start doing what they want with their property. Thank you. Yeah. Ditto from from me. I'm surprised that um we're suddenly hearing this that you I've I've never heard in that you had to
have irrigation systems in a private home. Does it the state I thought the state law already prohibited that or said you you didn't have to require that >> life safety code doesn't apply to one and two family dwellings but in this this code that we're getting clarification on is in NFPA1 which is
the fire code it applies to all buildings. So that's why we're trying to get this deck statement to differentiate if it does apply to single family, one and two family, single family homes. >> So that they don't have to have an
irrigation system, >> a sprinkler system. Yes. Yes. >> Cuz right now, if you look at the code, it says all buildings three stories or higher. >> Okay. >> And it's from the ground level. It doesn't it's a open >> made consistent.
>> Okay. Thank you. Uh, any other questions? >> Okay, get it done. >> Are you done, George? >> Thank you for bringing that up. It takes care of one of my items, >> right? >> I have I have nothing. Thank you.
Uh, >> Councilman Santiago, you're first tonight. >> Thank you. I wasn't going to have anything, but Mr. Dickles, you're I know why you said thank you for being here because, you know, I do have an interest in that whole uh reef thing. I think I've supported, you know, the concept of looking into it. Um, and and your
persistence is is great. Um, but and to our my colleagues, I mean, the point is true. The we keep pumping sand and pumping sand. The next hurricane comes, it takes the sand and millions and millions of dollars continue to go down the tubes or not down the tubes into the
ocean, I should say. Um, and uh, I don't have property on the beach, but I keep buying sand. You know, that being said, um, I think it's a worthy research. I don't know if if we've had
anybody really look into it. Can we Yeah, go for it. Thank you. Let's get an answer. >> Deputy County Manager Suzanne Konin. >> I'm sorry. Uh, as I mentioned at your workshop, you received some summary information on the Taylor Engineering
Coastal Reourishment Report, which has been comprehensively reviewing all options for the beach for about a year now. That study does include various uh structural alternatives in depth. I urge
everyone to take a look at it. uh that has been about a $400,000 study. So, you have a lot of good information. Uh we're in our final uh period of public comment uh which you can still uh take our
survey and provide public comment on that study. That report will be winding up in its final stage for presentation to the council in the next roughly 90 days. Uh and you'll see that option as well as others and how they work and
compare with one another from costs to permitting feasibility, how they might work standalone and how they may work together in concert with each other. All of them honestly are quite uh uh costly
and there are is no you know monetary source identified yet but that is a part of the report as well and we'll be bringing that to your discussion here I would say by April if not sooner. >> One followup Mr.
in in in your reading of of what's been provided so far, is there's preliminary justification that it could potentially work? These reef systems, >> there's some question on their
permitability, especially in the Atlantic Ocean environment that we have here in Valuchia County, but they don't add sand to the system. And so I think what you'll see this study say is they may be part of a two-part approach with
sand nourishment and uh these reefs or barriers to try to retain the sand uh within your system. Um otherwise what they'll do is trap sand coming down the latoral area and you'll have erosion on one side and build up on the other which
uh can be problematic especially the way that our 37 miles of shoreline are created. But I think you all received a booklet with uh some very helpful summary level information on these and
um I think there were about 10 options that were studied in quite good depth by this coastal engineering firm and I'm excited to have uh Taylor and Jessica bring it to you in the coming months uh and answer all your questions. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm
done. I I'd like a follow-up question on on that. Um when the current u um dredging project came up to place the sand from the inlet on the beach where
we had lost it where we needed it. I think uh the Army Corps's original plan was to to send it what 18 miles offshore or 13 miles. Well, actually it was in what I think they called the nearshore
or about 20 feet of depth of water. I don't know that it was quite that far offshore as you're recalling, but it was far enough offshore that the amount that would come ashore and show any real benefit >> was negligible. >> Was negligible. Yes, sir.
>> And I So I remember being for it to to try and move it. And I know the county staff worked really hard to allow us to be able to use that um sand. Um, now I'm getting uh reports and I'm I'm bringing this up because I'm I'm g I'm going to
go look at it tomorrow or the next day. Um, and I wonder if if this has come up in in your research or reports from the public, but I'm getting calls from numerous people in Pon Inlet um and
actually in in Orman Beach as well that part of the dredging process is depositing um pockets of sewage that they the dredge comes across in the in the inter coastal or in the inlet. that is that
are you experiencing that? Have you seen it? Have you >> during the very early weeks uh and and months of the dredging project uh that place sand in Ponlet, there was some question raised by one member of the
public about some of the dark sand and whether there were some problems with its quality. it quickly bleached out and I what I'd like to do is get Jessica Fentress to reach out to you and to address that when she was here, but that
issue was very short-lived. It had to do with some microorganisms as I recall. Uh that quickly dissipated. I I don't know what you might be hearing from Orman Beach because of course none of the sand got placed that far north. I got a call
from somebody that said it traveled north and came on the beach there. >> Could not have possibly happened in that way. Um, but I'd love to hear what they said and we'd like to get in touch with them and see what they saw and try to help explain what we can to them.
>> Okay, Suzanne, chairman, my interesting. My wife and I just walked the beach two days ago. >> There's more sand on the beach where I live in Orman Beach than I've seen in 10 years. good.
>> It's it's it's wonderful. >> And part of that may be from the Flaggler renourishment project that's coming our way, which is great for our benefit. >> Yeah. But um we do have a project beginning uh
I believe this this month for sure uh where the second part of uh the Rattlesnake Island depletion and placing in the beaches south of the inlet uh is going to occur. Um and we'll have one more batch of dollars to invest from the
monies granted to us from the state and we are looking at the best way to utilize that last batch of money. The idea is to uh dredge some of the shaw areas in the inlet uh which is really our beach sand that has come into the
inter coastal through the inlet and where and how to place that will bring back some options to you in the near term. Okay. Uh, Councilman Dempsey, >> um, I I'm glad Mr. Gimbert was here today
and um I've had the opportunity to speak with him um a couple of times over the past few weeks and uh I've uh been following his uh you know lead felia vote campaign and the toilet totap issue
and the uh deep well injection issue that seems to be circling around us in Florida. And um I just I want to just say it publicly that I'm supporting what he's doing. I support the uh charter amendment that he's presenting and I
just want to tell you why. This has nothing to do with me disliking developers. I I I actually appreciate developers because they're our sixth biggest employer in the community. So my support of what Mr. Gimbert is uh
supporting is not because of any disliking to developers. But I will say, you know, I live I live on 140 acre farm. I depend on wells for for everything. Okay? I'm not on the city
water, but I I don't want to be the guinea pig as to whether or not deep well injections are safe or not. Um, I think that's something that people should decide whether or not they want to be guinea pigs for toilet to tap claims of being safe or deep well
injections claim of being safe. And I I really liken this to COVID and the mandatory vaccines and there was discussion and actually it scared me because I thought the government was going to mandate vaccinations on what
they say was a safe vaccine and we were supposed to accept their science and put their science in our body hoping they're right hoping that it wouldn't cause uh later problems with children who were forced to take it. So, I don't want the
government in any way forcing their science on me and my family. I don't like the fact that once that stuff gets into my aquifer, gets into my well, then now me and my family become guinea pigs as to whether lab rats as to whether or
not their science is correct. Who knows the long-term effects? We didn't know the long-term effects of co vaccines. We have the one lady who comes here routinely and look what it did to her. the science did her wrong and I'm afraid that this science that
some of these purported scientists are trying to shove on us. I don't want it in my water. And I'll tell you, I support the developers because they create jobs. I don't like to demonize them as the bad guys, but I will say this, I will support a moratorum
and I voted against every moratorium ever presented, but I would vote against it if I felt like it was going to endanger the community. That's why I'm arguing so hard against these conservation easements. We are
noly trying to preserve up to 50% of our conservation land, the water. That's what we just talked about today. We're sending the letter to the state because we want to control our own water. And yet we're talking about letting them use us
as guinea pigs so we can build more. I just I don't like that. That's why I'm supporting it. The other thing I like about it is no preeemption. This is all Valuchia County residents voting on this. This is home rule. They're voting on it. We don't have to worry about the
state legislators. What I like about this is if they vote it and they say we don't want it. We don't want to be your guinea pigs. Good. We won't have it. 100 years from now when we can't build anymore, there's talk about a moratorum because we don't want deep well
injections. We don't want toilet to tap. Well, then maybe in a hundred years the science will uh improve and maybe at that point it might be safe. They may have worked out the filtration, but let them decide. Let them try and true it on true lab rats
and not human beings to see if it's right. So, I'm I'm in favor of letting the local people vote because once they put that stuff in our drinking supply, we're trusting the government science and I just I don't feel comfortable with that. So, I really appreciate what Mr.
Gimbert's been doing. I appreciate the effort of everybody who supports this because it really is a big issue. Our water supply, it's huge. And so, that's why I'm I'm supporting it and I'll just leave it out there. And that's that's all I have for now. I don't have anything on the
cultural thing yet. I I can talk to you later about that, but that's all I have for tonight. Thanks. >> Okay. Uh Jake, did you want to respond to that? >> I have a little quick comment. Um um so I'm I'm very supportive of of the public
voting on things that they're well informed about. So I'll ask you this. Um how long has the federal government approved deep well injection of of treated water?
You said we're guinea pigs. How how long has this been going on >> in 50 years? But I trust >> 50 years. >> Okay. >> EPA approved, federally approved and
regulated, highly regulated. I'm not opposed to the public voting on it. I'm with you on that. Uh I just want to make sure that people understand that we're not taking flush toilet water >> understand. >> And putting it in their aquifer, number
one. Number two is our aquifer isn't the Valuchia County aquifer. >> And there are a lot of people in Florida that already do this and have been doing this for years. Deep injection that is.
So your water is already getting other counties treated affluent deep deep oil injected. So um Again, I want to make sure the public is very
understanding of of what we're asking for. It isn't. I don't want the the the verbiage to say, "Do you want poopy water injected in your aquifer?" Because that's very misleading. It's misleading
in social media. It's misleading every time we talk about it. the average individual say, "Well, you know, that's not what I mean." There's a lot of people are starting to believe that, you know, I can't believe you're you're putting sewage into our aquifer.
They don't know any better. So, uh I I think it's important that that we ensure people are are are well informed on what they're voting on. So, that's all I want to say. It's been going on for a long long long long long time. cigarettes
used to be considered healthy. >> I'm not saying it's good. I'm not saying it's bad. But we're not going to be guinea pigs. We're we're well along on this thing. And and there are tons of things in this
United States that are bad for us. Yet, we still do it on our own time and our and our own valition. So, I I'm half with you. Again, I don't mind
voting for it, but I I just I think it's something the people should decide, Jake. >> I I do too. After they're well informed. >> Well, I think as long as we can hold off on that. That's why I said if 100 years,
not in perpetuity. I'm not voting on this in perpetuity. We are taking away the water supply in perpetuity, the commercial wells because of these easements. But you wash your hands after you go to the bathroom. I mean, it's
Jake. I would rather trust God's filtration system for my drinking water than some man-made filtering system. And I have to trust the government that it's good. >> I didn't say I don't believe what you're saying. I'm
saying make sure people are informed. That's all. >> Well, I think that's what they're doing. And I think open debate. I'm not a scientist. I don't purport to be a scientist. >> I I haven't seen any facts. All I've seen is stop the poopy water.
I'm saying educate the people. That's all. >> Okay, that's all I have. >> Michael Dyer. Um, council last discussed this very subject in October of 2022.
Uh, we did a memo on it. We attach it to the agenda. Be happy to share with you if uh I have not seen uh formal charter. I think Don mentioned a charter amendment. Haven't seen it. So, I'm not
going to comment on it. However, I if you want to talk about this, I would encourage you direct have an agenda item. Let's talk about it because there are a lot of things. Water one of the most preempted subjects in Florida law.
uh to the point when I first was with the county, the CA council adopted watering restrictions that were stricter than the irrigation schedule that the St. John's Water Management District
published. We were saving water and the state's position was you are violating the water management district's irrigation schedule. So there are a lot of things that each
of us can have personal opinions on that are good or bad, but I would recommend that we at least talk about what is out there and uh what is the form for
attacking this concern if it is a concern. And I will tell you that um you're looking at Tallahassee. And so I could sit here and be silent and not say a thing and you could tell
me that. That's fine. But I do think you need to know at least what we see kind of where we where we stand and what options are out there. And you can disregard that. That's okay. But I think we ought to have that discussion because
it is a complex issue and I understand a lot of people have strong opinions on it. I get it. But I would be doing a disservice to you if I didn't point out the the legal environment that we're
operating in. Not county rules, state rules. Okay. >> May I respond to that or >> Yeah, go ahead. And I would be remiss too if I didn't point out as a fellow attorney that
we're giving away all our home rule through these conservation easements. Even if we win these petitions and the lawsuits, we're giving away by contract one at a time preeemption by a thousand cuts, we're giving it away. I want to
give at least some sort of home rule protection through a county charter where the people can vote and say we don't want you touching our water because you just heard Ginger earlier today saying yeah we are giving away our ability to control our commercial wells.
Yeah, we are uh giving away u our rights to control hydraology in the county. >> Right. >> We're recklessly just giving that away one easement at a time. No, but I but I do I just want you to recognize though that that's a separate issue and it's a
policy issue and it's governed by this council about the Aggies. I get it. Respect it. Not my call. That's your call. And if you want to tackle that, >> uh we can bring something back to you to talk about it. But here, you know, we're
talking about, you know, for example, if somebody came and said, you know what, I want Valuchia County to be free of all guns and I want that to be voted on in our
charter. There are state and federal laws that apply to that question. That's all I'm saying. I think we need to at least at least have that conversation. I have not had that opportunity to have that conversation with you. Um, and if you
wanted to disregard that, that's entirely your choice. It won't hurt my feelings at all. >> Right. We can challenge the constitutionality of state preeemption. It's going to be a lot harder to challenge contractual obligations to preeemption. >> I, you know, this to me is reminiscent
of the discussion on Senate Bill 180. Uh, I was very frustrated at Seno 180 and I know I wasn't alone. I know there are many of you on this day that are upset about it. >> Me too. >> But Florida,
the Florida, we're governed by the Florida Constitution. I think we can all agree on that. Uh, we're a home rule county. We have a charter. But in that very language in the constitution that allows us to exist, it says we are subordinate
to the laws passed by the legislature. And a lot of people don't like that. I don't like it personally, but doesn't matter what Mike Dyer thinks. I mean, it's the law. And so if you go to tackle
something, you know, our advice was, well, you need to tackle that at the state level. You know, seek a change to the state law. Some other jurisdictions have sued. That's fine. I I wish them the best, but I think they have some obstacles. Maybe they'll prevail, but
there are a lot of folks out there who do not understand what home rule means. It does not mean that Valuchia County government or the city of Dan makes its own decisions regardless of what the
legislature wants. I unfortunately I mean I I wish we had more authority over local issues, but we don't because the legislaturator's taken that away from us. So, all I'm saying is I think at least have some of your staff here talk about
the issues and maybe we'll have some language that is presented. I don't want to prejudge it because I haven't seen the what the final language is, but on the subject of saying, hey, uh, toil the tap, I want a charter memo on it. that
concept in and of itself. I think we could have something for the unincorporated area and regulate that. But if you're wanting to preempt what cities do in their water utility service area, there's state laws
that govern that. I mean, and so I think we ought to talk about what authority we would have as a county to try to interfere with that city utility service area. done. Well, >> I I don't think you said anything that I disagree with.
>> I I don't think we're arguing. >> We could wipe out everything we do. We >> think we had to talk about it. >> Yeah. I Well, I'm available to talk to you about it. I'm not arguing with you. >> All right. Thank you. That's all I have. >> Okay. I I was just going to say something about that. I'm glad you brought it up, Don. I'm glad you're
supporting it. Um I'm supporting it. This This is a citizenled amendment. Um, and the citizens will have to get enough signatures to put it on the the ballot. Um, the what what um
what Jake said is is true. It's and I'm glad that he said it. It's been going on for a while because the last time that I brought it up at this council, it was it's never going to happen in our lifetime. And it had been happening and it's still happening. And there's um um
I I don't know how Jakey said you haven't seen any science yet or the argument for it or against it. You you will that'll be part of the process of >> I've I've seen it. Yeah, I've read the science for and against, but I haven't seen it in the in the local argument.
>> All I've That's what I mean. I'm surprised that you haven't seen that. I I have. It's it's um you can see it on social media. You'll see it other other ways as well. Um, >> can you get it to the Can you get it to
staff and staff share it with us? >> Yeah. Or >> see what you're looking at. >> Or you can just go to uh Valuchia issues or let Valuchia vote. You see it online. But yeah, I can I can do that. There's been some really interesting articles by
>> the uh well research projects by the um >> uh federal um geology geographic survey. >> It says that they've they've been doing it and it's already it's it's safe.
We're putting it way underwater, way underground and it will never co-ingle with our drinking water. And you can't say that they've proved it. They said unfortunately now we're finding it percolating up in other areas. um and
not not just uh cleaned up uh toilet to tap water that even if Deltona says we're going to clean it up to drinking water standards, um we can't put it in the river anymore because it's it's killing the uh the fish, it's killing
the shellfish, it's killing the um the the the grass. Um I mean that's that's been happening for for a long time. So to not do something because it's been going on for a long time for me is a is a bad reason. U we need to stop uh doing
more of it. And I think the the rest of the state is going to get involved in it as well. There's there's nobody there. Well, there's very few people that are excited about injecting uh cleaned up sewage water into our aquifer,
especially here locally because it's it's not, as you know, it's not one giant aquifer. They're compartmentalized and but but the water does move around. Um so now we're talking about Valuchia's aquifer, particularly Westia's aquifer.
Don's right. I don't everything that I produce on my my uh organic or regenerative farm depends on that water. I don't want to be pumping the PAS forever chemicals out that are already getting in our water. So, so
don't make it worse. Um we're just asking to let the people vote on this and that will that will create a very dynamic um discussion. um as we're hearing tonight. So,
Councilman Kent, >> what is wrong with human beings that they would think that they could take any type of water, whether it be from the black tank or the
gray tank, and think it's acceptable to pump it into your water supply. and that it's going to be okay. Don, I don't know why you're hesitant to believe your government. I mean, the food pyramid they had for 40 years told you to eat
between six to, I think, nine servings of carbohydrates and grains a day. It got people fat and diabetic. Said, "Don't eat eggs. Don't eat butter. Don't eat meat." Thank God for RFK.
I don't know why we don't trust the government. I've not spoken to Greg Gimbert about this issue, but shockingly, I had a lovely conversation with Elena Craft on my way to this council meeting today. And Don, I'm here to tell you, I I told her as a
resident, I'll be happy to sign that petition. Let the people vote on that issue. What is wrong with human beings with their thinking? You know, don't worry about saving the money. Just do the reverse osmosis. Pull it from the ocean. Pull the water. Spend
the money. Pull the water from the ocean. Spend the money. Do the reverse osmosis and and drink that water. Goodness gracious. That's all. Chairman. Well, thank you. I'm glad to to hear that. U that makes three of us on the
council that are supporting it. I I hope everyone was. The first time I brought this up, first, second, and third time at a previous council, not this council, it was shut down. and it was shut down by Ben Johnson who actually said you can never talk about it again as long as this council is together. So, and the
reason he said that is because it's not happening and so we don't have to worry about it and it won't happen in our lifetime. I just saw an article that the Dan Beacon did and I love Barb Shepard. She said it ain't happening and it's not going to happen for 20 or 30 years. It was happening then and and now now we
know it. Now the government admits it. Yeah, we've been doing it and um it's not confined. It is coming up. Water travels. The upward pressure pushes it up. Animals don't even pee in their own bed. So, it's
uh I'm I'm supporting it. Mike, you're absolutely right. It's going to be a hard lift. It's I think it will it will go to the state. It'll there'll be legal hurdles and I think it's worth happening. Um Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I I just wanted
to put a little clarification. I I know you made the the statement that at least three of us are supporting it. >> Um I haven't made any comment either way. Um and and I haven't because I value the opinion also from our legal team, right? I look to look at I get get all that. I don't like the concept.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not a scientist. I don't know nothing about that. If you just tell me that from a novice point of view, I'm a no. But we have a responsibility to do things the legal way, right? So, I'm not going to put myself in any position personally yet. Again, I don't like it,
but I'd rather Why don't we do this because they offered it. Let's take staff up on and update. I I don't even know what it is in entails. We keep hearing these things, but again, I call it the social fake world out there,
right? U I'd rather get some folks from who are specialists in this, and I don't know who they are. give us an update. Tell us really what it is. Give us some background and then get a legal perspective as to what position does the county council have in anything. I get
the citizen initiative. I don't have a problem with citizen initiatives, but for this body to make a statement. Let's get some legal guidance and then what we do on our own private lives, we can do. That's my ask, guys. I don't want to put anybody on the spot saying you support it, you don't support it, you might
support it. >> Let's do our role up here. what we do out in the streets is our own cause. So with that, Mr. Chair, I'd like to with unless there's objection, direct staff to give us a full uh explanation of what this is. All right.
Background so at least we get some knowledge on it and the legal position that this county council would have um if a referendum get proposed or something like that, it'll probably help the people that are trying to do the referendum have a different strategy. I
don't know the answers yet. Um, but again, I don't like the concept, but I think unless there's objection, I think we should do that. >> Okay. I was going to second it, but Danny beat me. >> Okay. So, the motion in a second is to give this to the legal staff to discuss
what the county council's position should be on it. >> No, no, no, no. It was direction to get an update on what this process is, this injection well system is, what it entails, so we
could at least some have some knowledge of what the science whether we believe it or not is um what's being done, the history, and what's being asked of some of our local cities from from our our our cup uh applicants. I'm guessing the
second part of that was what Mike Dyer was basically saying to in in the conversation with Don >> that there may be some legal challenges that we may have to consider um based on the Florida Constitution. I think that's what you're saying. >> What can the county really do about
this? >> What the county can really do about this and have a legal standing on it? Again, >> I would say the same thing we did with SE with 180 and just petition. >> It maybe Yeah. But I'd rather get let's get the facts because I know you brought it up today. This is a very preliminary
conversation. I know social world is out there playing with it and hats off to them. But I'd rather get it from >> people who Fair enough. >> Okay. But but it's not just social world, David. It's the it's the people
in Valuchia County. We can do all this that you want. It doesn't matter that the citizens are going to go ahead with this anyway. Vote on I didn't argue that, Mr. Chair. >> I didn't maybe listen a little bit clearly because I said it very clearly.
I said what the citizens do, what the initiative is fine. What we do as individuals fine. I'm talking about us as a body. What we do as a body, that's all it is. >> You think he's talking about a collective vote, >> correct? To our position as a body. >> That's all I'm talking about. >> Yeah. What is happening out in the
private sector? Whatever here, if it's being brought up here, it's being brought up because they want to make it county business. >> Just tax it. It'll go away. I >> I'm not arguing for or against it. I'm just saying let's get information to find out what position as a body we can
take. >> Okay, >> that's it. That'll be good. Okay. I don't know if we're all going to take this long, but uh that was David. Don, >> I'm done. I'm sorry. >> You're done. Uh Jake Johansson.
>> Yeah. Now that we're now that we're done with that curuffle. All right. >> Mr. Chair, >> can I have a vote to vote for that? We didn't vote on motion second to send it to the U to staff to bring back and
educate us on it >> and and tell us what >> if we can take a position or not what it should be. >> We're asking for information and legal opinion. Right. >> Yep. >> Information and legal. I'm wondering if I need to uh call the role, but I'll
just call the vote. All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. >> Jake Johansson. >> Thank you, sir. Um today we were asked about our core responsibilities. I I think I think the
chairman spouted off five of them. Uh and we all kind of looked at each other with, "Yeah, yeah, those sound good, but I guess we didn't formalize them." Um uh so maybe we ought to do that. I think we're having more meetings with Herb
throughout the year. We can um we can make sure that that those are those are clear. I don't want to get into them now, but um I didn't have any problem with what the chairman said. basically um it was brought up uh
that that that bush echo could go away just as easy as it was voted uh for it. Um I I think the the the reason that was said is because we could save money. Well,
we can stop charging the millillage until the the system kind of starts taking care of itself and then and then work it. I don't think we have to get rid of it. I don't think we should get rid of it. I
don't think it would pass. Um but again, uh up to the folks out there. Um I think these things eb and flow. Uh people save up money, they have good projects, they ask for the the echo
match, and then they're out of money for a while. It happened in Port Orange. We we got our act together. We got a few things accomplished and and then we ran out of money. Um so I I think there's merit to keep an echo. Uh what what I
will say about Echo though is it's easy to ask for that Echo money uh to get a project, but sometimes people don't have the foresight and and Brad does a good job of of asking for their
business case, but some people don't have the foresight that with that bigger building, with that more programs comes more operational cost and if they can't sustain that operational cost, um
I don't know if I'm a big fan of of Echo paying operational cost uh versus just uh capital. So, um we'll see how that goes. But those are my initial feelings on that. Uh lastly, I I mentioned at the
beginning that we had a flooding subcommittee meeting. A few points that that were brought out by the mayors. I think you'll hear about him at the next round table possibly. Um but but one of the things that was brought up by Mayor
Cleveland and New Smyrna that that Ben and and Michael Ryan and and Donna Butler are doing great work. Uh but he feels that those folks might be um
neglecting some of their day jobs. I don't know about that. Um but but for George as Suzanne was there, but they kind of talked about a a a new job, a flooding zar, if you will, uh to keep the pressure on for for taking care of
flooding. I don't know if that's necessary, but uh I I report that that was that was brought up. Um Ben Ben did not say I'd love to have an extra person, but but it was brought up. Well, we have added a position. So, we we we
have added one already. Engineer uh just for >> And she was that was the one that was there. She was there. Okay. >> So, um uh ju just so you know. Um and then um
and then we went to uh we decided to go to quarterly meetings. So, uh we're we're no longer monthly. We're kind of in a a maintenance phase right now. So, uh the projects are going, the studies are going, they're starting to turn dirt
on the first project. Things are looking forward. Uh the the biggest the longest pull in the tent, I think I think we talked a little bit about that this this earlier today is the environmental approval process. So, as those uh uh
projects get approved, more dirt will be turned and and more stuff will be done. But we ask you uh to take the flooding newsletters that we get and turn them around in your social media as you see fit. If you see a good picture in
Georgia's uh summary uh weekly summary, uh turn those around on your social media. Again, uh for me it's all about um public information. The more they know, the the less they think we're not
doing anything. And and we as the royal government, we it's every every subject that we deal with. So, uh uh keep up the good work, get the information out there, and I think we'll uh um we'll be less distrusted. That's two negatives, I
know, but uh uh other than that, that's all I have. Chairman, thank you. >> Councilman Kent, >> thank you, Chairman. Just a a couple of brief items. Uh George and Suzanne, just a a thank you. And um to John Nicholson
and and David Santiago, thank you both for, you know, talking about the reef because it's a discussion that should be had. You know, David, I know you like to travel a lot and and back in my younger days, I I surfed a lot. And I I'll tell you, I don't know if you thought about this or not, but any of those tropical
beaches you've been to where they have incredible surf on a reef and then where you are on the beach, for the most part, if there were huge waves out there, it's like a lake where you are. and there's not really any erosion
going on or anything like that because the reef has taken all of the energy out of the wave and I think it's something we should be talking about. So, I'm I'm pleased that that came up today. Uh, council, thank you for almost 3 years
ago agreeing to support the Regrow the Loop and now Regrow Valuchia because Regrow Valuchia and Regrow the Loop just announced their full schedule of environmental education events and they have so many topics. Here's a few of
them. Uh, save the native bees made me think of Mr. Reinhardt with the the honey we talked about at the jails. Uh rain barrel workshop, pruning trees. They have some really good topics that
our residents can participate in free of charge. I just I think it's wonderful. And last but not least, I'd be remiss if I didn't brag on I saw him earlier. Maybe he's already gone. George, if he is, you'll have to just tell him. But,
uh, Tim Bailey, you know, we've got you have some great staff members and you hold them accountable and these people are professional and they're punctual and they're good at what they do. And I've in your evaluation, I always say it
every year, it's one of my favorite things about you is you have an uncanny ability to put the right people in the right spots and hold them accountable to make sure that they produce for our residents. But um I saw where uh
Councilman Johansson and um Robbins are going to have a town hall and I love that for you guys, but I love it more for your residents because I just had my district dialogue on January 12th at Bsentennial Park. There were over 50
people there and they're jazzed up to talk about different things and it's beneficial and it's helpful and it helps me as one of the seven leaders to make decisions in Valuchi County. And I'm just excited for you two guys down in
New Simra to have a town hall like this. I love it, man. I just I want you to know I'm rooting for you. I'm really rooting for your residents because it's going to be good for them. But George, Tim Bailey was fantastic getting that room open, making sure the seats were
there. Um, there was one question that I I told the group. I I have no idea. Tim Bailey knew though. He jumped right up and said, "May I?" And and you know, he gave a threeminute answer and I was so pleased that remember that John John
took the the trek from Daytona to come to that meeting and um it was standing room only, right? I mean, standing room only uh up there in Orman by the Sea and um it put a smile on my face. So, uh
George, if you'll please share and Suzanne, if you'll share with uh with Mr. Bailey that I I certainly appreciate it. And and the next one is um at the Orman Library. Uh and that's in May. I'll talk about that whenever we get closer to it. Hey. Um, great to see you
all again and uh, happy new year and um, have a good night. >> Council Johansson, >> real quick, I I just want to offer up I I've been to Don's uh, Don's town hall when we had it here. Um, I'm supporting
Danny uh, this week and and I'll come to if any one of you want I I I gladly will if invited. Um, uh, it adds a little bit of, uh, staff, uh, taking minutes, but yeah, I'm I'm more than will. I just
don't like encroaching on your district, but I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Well, your job encroaches on all of their districts. So, >> it it does, but I I I don't go meddling without giving them a chance first.
>> Okay. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt, >> thank you, Chair. Jake, you can encroach on mine anytime. All right. Um, two two quick things. I already promised Danny, I make it quick. Um, first thing tomorrow afternoon, the Marine Science Center dedication. I believe you and I
both chair going to that. So, um, encourage those that enjoy that area that we have out there. Number two, this is an apology I have to make. >> Everybody Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna My wife is probably recording this right now. So, the apology has to do with something we
all talked about up here with and staff is bringing it back is the domestic abuse database that we we were talking about and I did a news uh reporter did an interview with me and it
was uh in the studio and I got a phone call right away from my daughter cuz I in the studio I said my daughter's boyfriend had assaulted her. It was her ex. Let me just clarify that because we like the new guy. Okay. So, I made the public
apology as any dad up here would. All of us are dads. We get that. Five of us, I think, have daughters. So, you totally understand that. So, I've made the apology. Hopefully, I'll get out of the uh the doghouse. So, that's all I got. Chair. Thank you. >> Understand that. Uh Jake.
No. Okay. Uh Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, uh Chairman. We we went over the sprinklers. Uh and two, I just want to uh I'd like to address some of the comments uh that were made here um because
they're they're in my district uh with Mr. uh Morgan Denny. Uh if anybody has questions about that, uh do know council that uh we've been in contact with this gentleman and and that neighborhood for years, right? And uh we've been
mitigating certain issues. we highlighted uh some projects that are going to be going going on down that way. Uh but also too, nobody is neglecting him or um others, right? Uh Ben and I uh been out
there several times um throughout the years and you know, we got to give uh with our enforcement system and everything, we got to give people uh a a corrective action, right? uh just because you don't like it doesn't mean that they're not entitled
to that process, right? And they have the same process as well if it happens to them and they make some mistakes and and that's what they're doing. But our our staff is doing a good job. Uh Ben and his team are doing a good job code enforcement on working through um some
of these issues and uh mitigating some of the impacts or if there's a negative impact or was that it gets corrected. So I just want to put that out there in case you guys get some emails. But there's over a 100 email correspondents between uh legal and and multiple
departments uh handling that. So um other than that, the only other uh topic that I might bring back, but I'll get more information. Several years ago, I believe we dissolved an agricultural board and combined it with the value adjustment board. I'm getting some
um contact from members of the agricultural community to possibly restore that. I'm going to get more information and uh I'll have them get that out to to the board if it's even feasible. Um I'd volunteer for it um if
needed, but uh other than that, that's it. Michael Ryan. Michael Dyer. I need to talk to Michael Ryan, too, but he's not in here. Is he here? Um, >> I think you should ask a question of Michael Ryan.
Uh, >> did you just hear what Danny's request? >> Yeah, we're we'll have to talk. We're not quite sure. I I we'll we'll dig into it. >> Okay. All right. Um, everything I had to
to bring up has brought up fire suppression, toilet to tap, uh, um, beach nourishment. Um, and I know I think David, you got little a little uh, um,
frustrated with me talking about the the bills and and uh, but the it goes along with toil at the tap. If we don't get rid of Senate Bill 718 and its corresponding hash House bill, it just gets worse and worse and and so that's the reason I wanted to talk about those
after hearing the um Florida Association of Counties conference. Um they made it so clear that our residents um need to weigh in. So that's why I bring it up publicly. I know they get frustrated. They feel like Tallahassee doesn't
listen. I get frustrated for the same reasons sometimes, but um please don't um don't give up uh contacting your your representative senators um especially
the Valuchia County um delegation. So um with that at 9:04 this meeting is adjourned.