Okay, welcome everybody to the August 4th, 2026 Valuchia County Council meeting. Uh, in just a moment, I will ask you to stand for the invocation and the pledge. Uh if you are a member of a faith group who would like to
participate in a uh in the invocation in the future, please just send an email to uh K the letter K green at valucia.gov. Chrissa over here um will uh take care
of it. Um all faith groups are welcome. Uh this morning we have the Reverend G. Comfort uh Keen from St. Barnabas Episcopal Church right here in Dand. So if you care to stand, please stand with me for the invocation.
Let us pray. Almighty God, to whom we must account for all our actions, send down upon those who hold government in this county the spirit of wisdom, charity, and
justice, that with steadfast purpose, they may faithfully serve in their offices to promote the well-being of all people through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen. Lord, give these dear people
courage in their challenges and wisdom in their decisions. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Tissa, would you call the role, please? >> Mr. Santiago >> here. >> Dempsey. Mr. Johansson >> here. >> Mr. Kent >> here. >> Mr. Reinhardt
>> here. >> Mr. Robins >> here. >> Mr. for Brower >> here. And we do have a uh a quorum six of us. So, we'll have to be a careful with ties.
Not these ties. >> Okay. We will start uh public participation. We appreciate those that have come in to speak to the council. Um, you are welcome uh at all of our meetings to come and speak at any uh
county business that uh doesn't have to be on the agenda for the opening or the closing participation, but something that the council might work on in the future. You will have three minutes to uh speak. Please make sure that the microphone is uh right in front of your
mouth so everybody can hear you. Um, there is a timer on the monitor in front of you and in the screens over my head. Um, we're going to hold you to three minutes because we've got a lot of people that would like to participate.
Um, the first up today is Keith Chester. And please, when you come up, just tell us what area of the county you're from. You don't have to give your your full address for safety reasons, but your representative would like to know. uh
where you're from, >> Dan. >> Uh at the at a meeting on February 18th, 2020 that took place at the historic courthouse, there was a joint meeting between the county council, the Forever
Committee, and the Echo Committee. At that meeting, it was uh to be discussed about possibly placing Echo and Forever back on the ballot to be extended for 20 more years.
And at that meeting, the then chair Pat Nory of the Echo Board presented a list of things that they were interested in possibly having changed prior to the uh ballot measure going to the voters.
It was discussed p uh Deb Denny's at that meeting who was a council member at the time said if you change anything before it going to the voters the voters will probably not vote in favor of echo. So it was deceitful and they decided instead of letting the voters know the
plan possible plan changes that they would just present it as it was let the voters vote then come back and then they would make the changes after the vote. That's exactly what happened with many of the the requested changes that were presented that day. One of those changes
was uh prior to 2020 or in 2020 uh there was uh a rule that for the echo grants for restoration grants and expansion grants they had to have a a period of at least 30 years of life. And for new
projects they had to have a period of at least 40 years of life. that be monitoring and and actual operations. Uh unfortunately that was changed after the citizens voted deceitfully. I think
after the citizens voted to 20 years for everything. We were promised legacy projects with Echo and forever. Legacy is not 20 years. Legacy is that park you went to when you were a child that's still there today and you can take your
kids to. I think that this is this is going to become a big problem because we now have changed where grant uh grant applicants can ask for up to $2.5 million and all they have to do is go for a
20-year period. Think about that. All of us could come together and we could start a nonprofit and we get a $2.5 million grant and 20 short years, hell, we could retire and sell it all off because that's what can happen after
after the cycles ran. And we've had several that we've already rescended, the county has, and was able to get their money back. Well, that might not have happened if these new rules were in place for 20 years. You've got grants here from a bunch of
them. uh from uh y'all have the list. It's very important. Please bring it up today and get it moving because you have grants in process. Thank you, >> Keith. Uh Gregory Renac. >> Good morning, council members and staff.
My name is Gregory Renac. I live in Crest Windland. At the July 21st county council meeting, a resident spoke in favor of the truck plaza proposed to be built adjacent to our community near the I4 and State Route 44 interchange. I
would like to address his comments. It should be noted that the speaker did not refute any of the points made in opposition to the truck plaz over the past several months. rather he stated that all services are provided through semi-truckss in some way and that a truck stop is long overdue in this area.
He also indicated that the area already has commercial development. I assume he was referring to the abandoned hotel and the existing gas station and convenience store. We do not disagree that additional truck parking is needed along I4. In fact, an FDOT study identified
the need for an additional 720 parking spaces along the I-4 corridor. However, the study did not identify the State Route 44 interchange as an area of need. State and federal departments of transportation recently announced five
new truck parking facilities to be built along I4. Ground has already been broken on the 132 space Sanford facility. Within a year, ground will be broken on two facilities about 10 miles east of the proposed truck plaza location. One
eastbound and onebound westbound on I4 with a total of 540 spots. Lastly, there are two additional facilities, one each in Orange and Oyola counties totaling 245 spots. These five facilities will
provide nearly 920 additional spots or about 25% more than the need identified by FDOT. In addition, there are several existing full service truck plazas along the I-4 corridor as well as on I95 near I4.
When the speaker stated that truck parking was needed along I4, he failed to mention these new truck parking facilities that most likely will be available before this truck proposed truck plaza would be completed. Given these new facilities announced by state
and federal departments, is there truly a need for a 24-hour truck plaza that will surely disrupt life for the residents in the adjacent 55 plus community? Is this plaza consistent with the county plan? It is not a question of whether or not the property owners can
develop the land. Rather, it is a question of whether or not they should be allowed to do so in this way. There are these are questions that must be answered by the county planners and ultimately the county council. Thank you for your consideration. Thank you for your comments. Dick
McCormack. >> Good morning. Good morning, council and staff. I'm Dick McCormack. I'm a retired neurologist lived in the Dand area since 1979 and uh I live in the Leon Springs. Now uh I'd like to discuss the issue of data
centers. The proposed moratorum of 6 months is a good good place to start and I'd like to point out that I'm not aware of anybody in my circle of friends who is in support of having data centers in our
county. First of all, these data centers are they're purely extractive. They take our water in huge quantities. They consume our energy and produce produce relentless 24/7 noise. They produce large quantities of emissions when running on their generators.
They're like coal mines. They take and they give nothing back. Nothing back to make our communities better. Water extraction. Think about this. Water extraction back in the 80s. And I know many of you remember that for freeze protection produced numerous sink holes
in our area due to the underlying carst geology. Growth beachside also was accompanied by so much saltwater intrusion that we had to drill wells all the way out 44 and currently they extend past Samsula.
These data centers will only amplify the pressure on our already fragile aquafer. We really must listen to the lessons of the past and we really need to learn from them. These centers require huge amounts of electrical energy which our
grid cannot support. Turbines and diesel generators are the option with all of their attendant noise and pollution. Folks living with these centers are experiencing 247 unremitting noise. Scarily, this is really scary. On June
2nd of this year, the US Department of Energy demanded that the data centers in the northeast of this country, which drew from the common grid, go on backup power because the outside temperatures are so high that the grid was in favor in in danger of collapsing. Very scary
employment opportunities. Think about this. locally, they'll be very limited because the technicians, they're going to be provided by the companies, not us. Furthermore, when they become obsolete, and they will, who will be responsible
for the dismantling and cleanup of these centers? In summary, data centers bring nothing positive to our county and will only create more issues related to our already strained water supply and energy supply, as well as our air quality and increasing noise 24/7. And we truly
should look seriously at what we need to do countywide, legally, and with planning and zoning to enable us to ban them effectively. I believe we need more than six months to accomplish this. And in my opinion, an 18-month moratorum
would give us the time to do this effectively, thoroughly, and to take in the needs of everyone. >> Thank you so much for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. John Nicholson. >> [clears throat] >> John Nixon, Dayton Beach. Uh, one, if
you recall last meeting, I made a comment about the property uh uh tax item that was going to go on the uh ballot. Three days later, came out in the newspapers. All right. It really
needs to be flushed out. I know there are two of you that on here that are absolutely in favor of it. I was just speaking to a regular. He's in favor of it. Uh papers say, "Oh, no, it's not going to pass." Well, we don't know that. All right. Uh years ago, we were
doing a half penny sales tax. We were told, "Oh, yes, it'll pass. No problem. There no issues." Sure enough, there were issues lying right underneath the table. the uh uh failure of the county to pass a uh uh
impact fee for 17 years uh graded on the uh residents and they voted it down. We need that in that half penny sales tax, but we voted it down anyway. We may or may not need this, but
there's no discussion on it. We don't know how you all feel about it. It's a Republican issue. Uh, Republicans kind of rubber stamp. Uh, they're in control in Tallahassee. As you know, I'm a registered Democrat. I voted a um
straight Republican governor since Lton trials. This will probably the first year in the 30 years that I'll probably vote for a uh Democratic governor. Uh there is not a good Democrat uh governor
running. It's unfortunate that uh Trump endorsed him within hours of his uh saying that he's going to run before anybody else had a chance to even debate whether there were going to be a better governor than him. So we we may not have
a good governor. Uh as you know, it's the Republicans that are pushing uh to end home rule. I'm a big favor of home rule. I don't like the Democrats pushing the ending of home rule. I don't like the Republicans
taking away all of our uh ability to govern our own city. So, we really, really, really need to discuss this. We need to know how you all feel. So, what side are you on, Matt, and why? What side are you on, David, and why? Because
you always give good reasons why you do what you do. So, if there are valid reasons to pass this, then I don't see a problem with it. If there are loopholes and problems, we're going to find out about it too late. All right? So, I'm asking you, please pay attention to uh
what we as citizens do not know. You know a heck of a lot more than we do because of the uh information that you're fed. We don't get this. All we get is what's in the newspaper and what's on the internet. They're not always right. Thank you. Thank you for
your comments, Greg Campbell. >> I'm taking it's Greta. >> It is. I'm like, >> I'm Greg. >> Hey, Greg. >> Good morning. I'm Greta Campbell and I just write want to um point this out to Mr. Dempsey. Dear Mr. Dempsey and
honorable members of the Dan County Council. I'm writing to bring you to immediate attention to the conditions of Union Cemetery in Dan, Florida. A historic African-American cemetery that has been neglected and abandoned. This cemetery is an important part of our community. History deserves to be
treated with dignity and respect. Many of the graves and the surrounding property appear to have been left without proper maintenance. This is sacred site has fallen into disrepair, which is concerning. I respectfully ask that the delaying county council
investigate the condition of Union cemetery, determine who is responsible for its upkeeps, and take action to restore, preserve, and maintain it. Our ancestors deserves to to rest in peace in their final resting place deserves the same care, dignity, and respect
afforded to all historic cemeteries. I, Greta Campbell, have tried to contact Mr. Dempsey multiple times at his office, cell phone, and email. Unfortunately, there's been no response throughout this process. The only people who assisted me were Kimberly Reading, Valuchia County Council Office, Patricia
Gdusco, and the historic at the Capitol building in Tallahassee, Florida. Thank you for your time, attention, and commitment to preserving the history of our community. I look forward to your response and to seeing meaningful actions taken on this important matter. Greta,
>> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for coming in. Katie Bonner. >> Good morning. Um, my name is Katie Bonner and I'm a Valuchia County resident, Daytona Beach. Um, I am here
today regarding permit number 2026604002 and I'm formally requesting a reasonable modification and financial accommodation under the federal fair housing amendments act in title 2 to modify my home making it handicap accessible for
my minor children. Specifically, I am asking this council to wave $85 zoning variance application fee, the public notice fees, and the legal advertising fees associated with my file. As documented in official letter from my
children's pediatrician I provided to the county, this protective screen barrier is medically necessary and is considered a protective barrier. It is a 12 by 12. I am requesting these waiverss because I am trying to build this safety barrier at my home for my children who
have autism. Safety is a constant roundthe-clock worry and my children need a secure outdoor space where they can safely enjoy being outdoors if they attempt to open the front door and head outside. This protective barrier gives me the crucial seconds I need to catch
them before they enter the street. To compound these challenges, I manage a personal seizure condition myself. Dealing with these chronic health issues while trying to navigate the daily needs of multiple children makes these mounting permitting and advertising costs a financial barrier. Under the
federal law, individuals with disabilities are entitled to reasonable modifications that ensure equal housing opportunities and safety. And that includes relief from financial hurdles that prevent them from keeping our homes
safe. because of um excuse me with the pediatrician's confirmation of medical necessity. I am simply asking the council to uphold the spirit of the fair housing act and grant the waiver of these variance notice and the advertising fees so I can keep my
children safe. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh you'll be contacted when you go out this way if you want to talk to to Ray Tiner who's shaking his head over there. >> Okay, >> we'll start. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for coming in. Uh Rebecca
Manali Good morning. My name is Rebecca Mgali. Thank you. This is my 5-year-old. Last Tuesday morning at approximately 8:30 in the morning, we were walking to our car. We were stopped by a neighbor, a male
figure, who decided to stop and verbally curse at my daughter and I. That's what you call a good character neighbor, right? So essentially what's going on on Hope Street in Horman Beach is this is a picture of our plotted subdivision. There are four highlighted
homes that are seeking permits to have in front of their homes paved because of uh illegal road paving project started in 2024. It is now 2026. Can we go to the next
page? This shows our current road that extends all the way to Harmony. So out of the submitted permit, only four homes are included from the platted subdivision. Next image.
There's debate on who the road belongs to. Initially, when I called about this project in 2024 because we wanted to do this the right way, there was a lot of fees associated with it and this didn't make people happy in the neighborhood. So we continued laying asphalt millings
which you could see here clearly everybody contributes. It asked for collecting of $150 per home. 13 of those paid. Next slide. And there we say wooha 100% of people have paid for the road. But now there's
discrepancy as to why we are not being included in any of the the decisions. Why is it that we are a plotted subdivision, but only four homes have been submitted for permitting when yet you're not conversing with the other neighbors? Next slide.
This once again is showing the drawings that were submitted to the county for permit approval. That is a portion of the road. It shows the part that has already been paved illegally unpermitted and then it requests additional permit and retroactive permitting of those
homes. Next slide. Here shows the paved road. Those are some very nice swailes. Keep going, please. Those roads are expected to drain in canals. This is the drainage canal next to my home in my neighbor's yard that has been filled in with debris. Next
slide. Here shows this beautiful ending of a road going onto the imperous the impervious transitioning to pvious. Next slide. Here is what it looks like during the unpermitted work and all the dust we
have to deal with. Continue. Here are text messages dated from 2025. There's 14 people included in this where we start asking, "Hey, can we have a meeting? Can we talk about proper permitting? Can we talk about proper drainage?" Next slide.
That text message there tells me that someone is going to pave halfway to the middle of the road and exclude mine. This is what I've been dealing with for the past two years. I ask for help. Our neighbors ask for help. >> Thank you.
That concludes uh public comments for the opening of our meeting today. Um takes us to item one, approval of the agenda. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda as presented?
>> Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve by by Vice Chair Reinhardt and the second was by Councilman Robbins. All in favor say I. >> I.
>> Any opposed? And the motion is approved. And so we will move on to the uh consent agenda which is item two. Does any council member have an item they would like to pull for uh discussion or a vote?
Uh, Councilman Kent. >> No, Chairman, I do not. I'm just going to make a motion to approve if no one else has. >> Second. >> Okay. I I would like to pull item I that we can discuss it. So, uh, will you >> item I just for a discussion
>> or do you want a vote on it? >> And a vote. >> Okay. Motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. Absent item I. >> Okay. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Still, Vice Chair Reinhardt.
>> Okay. Before I call for the vote, or is there any comments on any of the items? Carissa, do we have any item anybody that wants to speak on the consent agenda? Okay, thank you. Um, all in favor of the consent agenda, um,
excluding item I, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And item I is is passed or the consent agenda is passed six to zero. So, we will move to item I.
um which is uh this is our internal auditor and um Jonathan you're going to tell us about your report. >> Sure. >> Okay. This is Jonathan Edwards are he is the county's internal auditor. He makes
audits of various uh departments and has been since uh starting in December of 2019. All right, there we go. All right. Good morning. My name is Jonathan Edwards. I'm the internal auditor and we're here to discuss the audit of building
inspections within the growth and resource management department. In fiscal year 2025, county inspectors conducted 33,75 inspections across residential and commercial properties. We tested 100 of those inspections. The objectives of the
audit were to ensure the adequacy and effectiveness of controls over the building inspections program and to assess compliance with policy laws and regulations. We identified opportunities to strengthen the conflict of interest procedures, assignment protocols, and
fee controls. control gaps that created conditions where preferential treatment could occur without detection, documentation, or accountability. [clears throat] One tested permit showed all three weaknesses at once. Excuse me. This permit was applied for
by the then chief building inspector. During routine audit testing, we found six issues. Fees were recalculated three times with no documentation. The $55 application fee was not charged. 80% of the inspections were performed by inspectors outside their normal
geographic assignments. A quote sighting inspection on a building that contained no sighting um was performed and that automatically extended the permit without charging a the applicant a $25 extension fee. Unlicensed staff made technical classifications and the
supervisor approval was captured only as a typed comment with no signature or initials documented in the system. What this permit illustrates is not necessarily intentional misconduct, but that controls were able to prevent um but that controls were absent to prevent
and detect these issues. The Association of Certified Fraud Examiners calls conflicts of interest one of the hardest fraud schemes to detect since there is no reliable detection method. They further state that even the appearance of a conflict can be as damaging as the
real thing. without procedures in place. It took audit testing, not the county's own controls, uh, to surface this permit and resulting inspections. When we raised this issue with the GRM director during the audit, [clears throat] he requested an HR investigation.
Excuse me. Prior to its conclusion, three inspectors separated from employment. To strengthen the county's controls, we recommend annual conflict of interest disclosure forms, written assignment protocols with GPS-based review, restricting classification edits to license staff, and removing the
ability to auto extend a permit. On disclosure forms, management partially agreed, pointing to an existing ethics policy and a 1-hour training as sufficient. We see those as different tools. Training teaches concepts. Disclosure reveals the specific relationships that [clears throat] may
affect assignment decisions. Since 2008, over 8,000 permits have expired without final inspection. 4,637 of those involve life safety systems and over 3,800 involve property or structure systems. The Amanda system, which is the
permitting system, generates a daily expired permitting report. However, that report appears not to be acted on. There are no procedures for contacting permit holders, conducting field visits, or escalating to code compliance to close out the permit. The Florida Building
Code anticipates that permits may expire and has procedures for handling those. It gives the county the authority to administratively close the permits after 6 years if the county determines that no safety hazard exists. However, the county lacks processes for making that
safety hazard determination. Code compliance is a county's designated enforcement office, but it operates on a complaint basis. Nobody complains about a permit that quietly expired away in a database. Without a required referral, these permits have no path for review.
To address this control gap, we recommended permit life cycle tracking and escalation process to code compliance and use of the Florida building code to close qualifying permits. management partially agreed, preferring a risk-based approach over mandatory referral for every permit. A
risk-based approach is reasonable in concept. However, the statute requires that the county determine that no safety hazard exists before closing out the permit. Without documented criteria, there's no way to confirm that determination is actually being made.
The audit also identified approximately $400,000 in estimated annual revenue loss across three different issues. When inspections are completed, the inspectors select the result type from a drop- down menu. The system offers several options beyond a simple pass or
a fail, but none of those were formally defined until we were asking questions and asking what the differences were. In working with staff, they also struggled to explain and define those results. That leaves inspectors interpreting overlapping categories with no
consistent guidance. The largest piece, $382,000, stems from how inspectors code the failed inspections. When work fails, inspectors are supposed to mark it as fail, which triggers a reinspection. Instead, the inspectors routinely code
failures as partial, which triggers no fee. Prior to asking us, prior to us asking, the definitions in the system, as I said, had never been formally documented. So, inspectors were using their own judgment, which we found inconsistent across our testing. staff
expressed confusion about these definitions and their differences. The second issue, the $21,500, is a statutory compliance gap. State law allows re reinspection fees to be four times the standard rate for repeat violations of the same deficiency. The
county charges the standard rate regardless. Keep in mind, the statute allows the permit holder to receive one inspection and one freebie to correct any deficiencies. So, we're talking about when the inspector has to perform an inspection for the same deficiency more than twice. As management has
pointed out in their responses, the statute's phrase, if a local government finds it necessary, has been interpreted differently across Florida jurisdictions, and the county retains the discretion in applying the escalated fee. That authority has been given to the chief building official and his
inspectors. However, discretion without documented criteria does not provide more consistency than the current approach. What is needed is clear uh criteria, clear definitions, and further training to help ensure that the county is applying the statute consistently.
Separately, the county loses money on every reinspection regardless. It costs about $86.74 to conduct one, but the fee is only $5846. The applicants who are doing it right and get it right the first time are the ones who are footing the bill for those
repeat offenders. one permit in fiscal year uh 2025 needed five reinspections for the same deficiency issue. The third issue is the all use group, the AUG, excuse me, the AUG occupancy classification, which is used typically
for sheds and garage type buildings. It has been held at $15 per square foot since 2006, while every other classification has been updated. Current data would put the comparable rate at $27.18. Management partially agreed here, citing
a concern about generating surplus revenue in the building fund, which is a very fair concern. But managing the fund balance is a separate question from whether the fee reflects current cost. This council has directed staff to make incremental regular fee updates rather
than infrequent disruptive ones. And this recommendation is simply following that recommendation and direction. If updating the AEG creates a surplus, that's a separate decision for staff to bring back to council, not a reason to leave the rate frozen for two decades.
[clears throat] Our recommendations are to formally define and standardize the inspection result categories, implements Florida statute 553.80, which escalates the reinspection fee, and updating the AEG classification rates. These three steps target the gaps
behind the $400,000 estimate. Excuse me. two two [clears throat] remaining findings, documentation gaps and monitoring gaps. On documentation, we found the certificate of completion was issued on a building with an unresolved flood elevation deficiency. The fix
existed only in an email from the former chief building official and no one else could access it until the plans examiner returned from vacation. On monitoring, the division tracks only inspection volume, which says nothing about the quality or the consistency of
the inspections being performed. We recommend tracking pass rates, reinspection rates, the failure reasons, and the closeout times. These same indicators were independently recommended by their consultant in April of 2025. There's also no independent quality
assurance review. Oversight today is the chief building inspector who is reviewing his own subordinates work. that is useful but is still internal to the same chain of commands and it competes with the chief's own workload of assigning and managing the daily operations. Our recommendation is for a separate
independent reviewer, someone outside that reporting line to periodically ran uh sample a random selection of completed inspections and verify that those results is [clears throat] matching what was done in the field. This would help ensure consistency in applying the Florida building code, help
identify training needs, and integrate customer feedback. To close these gaps, we recommend a formal quality assurance and improvement program with uh quarterly KPI or key performance indicators reporting to the GRM director, a CO or COC issuance checklist
required before permit is closed out. together. These give the division a way to catch and uh quality and documentation problems on its own and not reliance on an audit. These recommendations are opportunities to strengthen the existing controls so that similar issues can be prevented,
detected or corrected going forward. Most of these are procedural fixes and management agreed with the majority and has committed to implementation by September and several have already been uh completed. I thank staff for their cooper and assistance throughout the audit. I know they're very busy and have
a lot on their plates. >> Thank you. I have a a couple questions for you. I think Councilman Robbins uh does as well. Before I start, uh I want to let the public know that uh
the be this has been in the paper. It's all over social media, which is why I pulled it. I I want the public and the press to hear exactly uh the process that you went through. Um, we have talked several times about it. Um, I
don't think that there is no big gotcha that I'm looking for here. I'm not looking sorry to make make news with a gotcha. I want everybody to hear what the county went through, what you went through. You did really good work here and I app this is why you're here. Um,
and I don't think Well, well, let me ask you is in your investigation, this is a question everybody has. There's two. This is the first one. Um, did you find evidence of any of our inspectors taking bribes or illegal money? >> We did not find any evidence.
>> Did everybody hear that? So, there's this is not a bribery case. This is not that we have smarmy people out taking money under the table. Um, that could happen in positions like this. It did not here. As far as as your investigation determined in our audit,
we tested 100 inspections. We did not find that. >> Yeah. Thank you. Um, the other question that everybody has, and this is really where my questions will go, is I want everybody in the public to feel like they're getting treated just like everybody else. That nobody gets a
preferential deal because I know them or my cousins building the house or or whatever. And and then so so that's those are the two big things. You you got rid of the first one. No bribes. Um, the reason the other reason that I
pulled it is that I do think the council should be making decisions on the on I'm going to just go through a couple of things where the the county agreed with you on everything on some items they partially agreed and those are the ones that I want to to deal with. Um, the
first one is fees. You're right. The council has instructed staff to let's raise fees incrementally if we need to because prices go up, not have one great big uh fee raise at one time. Um that is
that was your um one of the first things that the county partially agreed with you on. Um should we should we uh forgive fees for people that are coming back? They failed. So,
we have to go back and reinspect. Now, there's sometimes there's reasons for that, and I think that will come out. But the count the council should give staff directions. Do we um want to make a policy that uh
that people are are charged a reinspection fee when they pass. And if we do that, uh there is a cap to how much money the the department can bring in accord by it's capped by state law. If we do that, there's a possibility
that we could actually reduce the fees of of everybody's first permit fee. This is these are people building their houses or making repairs. They were already spending a ton of money. It's expensive. I'm not looking to pile more permit fees on them. I just want it to
be fair across the board and safe. Um, uh, that's the goal is is safety and fairness and a policy that the the public understands and I I think that will come out here. So, um, I'm going to hold that for a minute, but I want the
council to keep it in in mind. One of the things that you said, the council has directed staff on multiple occasions to provide regular incremental fee updates rather than infrequent large adjustments. that direction is not contingent on fund balance conditions.
Um when the division absorbs years of cost increases without a corresponding uh fee adjustment and then eventually corrects the result as large more disruptive increases which we have um said in numerous occasions. So, I'm
going to ask the council at the end if they would like to deal with any any of the the feeds. Um, and um, as I go through these, uh, Danny, you're the only one up here. If you want to if you want to interrupt anything I'm saying and ask a question on the same subject,
you're you're welcome to. Or I'll save it to the end. >> That that's fine, chairman. Thank you for that uh for that leeway. >> Okay. Um, Jonathan, real quick, in the seven years that you've been here, I haven't heard of many instances.
Uh, like like the chairman said, you do a a pretty thorough um kind of examination of everything and so does our staff cuz the calculations I got is we're we're running at about a 99.9999 in infinite kind of success rate with
the policy that we have uh to date. What what I'm looking to understand um is whether or not we as a council should be getting involved in personnel and and HR issues when that's day-to-day operational and you and I uh had this
meeting where all these instances I see here just for clarity and and our role in this process are all day-to-day operational uh I believe issues that can be handled or should be handled uh here between yourself and and and staff. So, what I'm
looking for uh staff is um do you have kind of an explanation of of what you've gone through just for uh the public and um hopefully it it stays in your court as it should? Thank you. So you're asking me as far as uh the HR
part of it the as he stated in the uh in his report the uh he uh found uh issues uh HR was alerted and people were then investigated.
During that investigation uh several of those people chose to leave so they're no longer with us. On top of that, you've had you had a significant uh retirement of um of chief uh building official and you also had a
department head change. So I can assure you uh with all that happening the uh culture of the whole area of the whole division uh has been thoroughly looked at and is is changing under the direction of the new department head and
the new building official. Well, [clears throat] as a whole, uh, county manager, would you say this is the these issues are we always strive for perfection? But, but, um,
with our track record here, what other policy changes, uh, recommendations do you think, uh, are we trying to hit that 100%. How much is it going to cost us? I mean, I'm I'm I'm >> think that's something that we're working with uh the auditor and with uh
our staff to to achieve. Again, we want perfection. Sometimes perfection, you know, is a returning rate if you as you near, you know, 100%. But, you know, again, we've been pretty effective. We agreed with uh all of his recommendations or partial agreements
where there would be a nuance or a part of that uh recommendation that may be difficult or there may be some other reason. Uh and we're working through those with with them and the team right now as we speak. Uh I think Ray Tiner has done an excellent job already uh
with assessing the situation. He is in the report you'll see attached uh his recommendations and explanations of why some of the things might not uh be exactly as the auditor reported. I mean the recommendations of what he would
like to do going forward and that's again that's that's uh he has been doing these for seven years. We've done a lot of good work together. We'll continue to do that and we haven't agreed with everything that uh has come out every time and we we work and we
improve it. He comes back and he'll look for improvement in this area uh as part of his job as he circles back uh to work with us to make sure uh we're having progress in those areas. So that'll continue and that's exactly the process of improvement that we're trying to
really have is and I I appreciate the chair's comment of saying you know it's not about an I got you. It's about how do we improve, where do we have gaps, and then we try to go fill those gaps. In this case, we did have some employees that uh uh were not doing exactly what
they were supposed to be doing. They're no longer here. And that's the ultimate uh change that uh that I can make in in those situations. And then we have other situations. There were things that he didn't really mention as much, but you know, gaps [clears throat] in our computer system and our software and
making sure things are tied down tighter, who has access, that's very concerning to me when we uh have those things and we've already resolved that some of the things that he brought to our attention and and we go fix immediately. We don't wait for >> [clears throat]
>> um for this meeting to occur, you know, he gets on it and and our team gets on it and and we fix it if we find that particular gap. So, um, again, it's it's a supposed to be a process of constant improvement and, uh, but you have to
start somewhere and Jonathan's work is where we start often with, uh, finding those gaps. So, [clears throat] thank you, George. And real quick, Jonathan, uh, during our conversation, we talked about the building department. Uh, I just want to make sure this is correct. Building department. We're not
losing money, but we're not making money. Correct. >> Correct. You could say it. Yes. Um and we're not supposed to be making money, right? We'll end up like a couple other municipalities that are going through some some issues right now. So, council,
uh chairman, if if uh you mind if I make a comment or going to wait or you have any more questions? >> Can you wait until we get done with questions? Yeah. Two other council member has questions too. I want to finish with uh uh one of the questions on recommendation onee. And this is the
one that was is really important to me because of what I said at the beginning that I want everybody in the public to feel like they're be treat they're being treated fairly that an inspector doesn't go out and his cousin Vinnie is on the job and so he gets um he gets a
pass no matter what on onee the county's response what well your request was that um the county incorporates a conflict of interest policy. And the county has
response was partial agreement, partial disagreement. We we disagree with this part with requiring inspectors to review, sign, and date conflict of interest to closure forms annually. Um, and I I would like to hear from the
county manager or whoever you want to answer this of why why that just wasn't accepted. Why why do we disagree with these conflict of interest forms? >> One thing I uh I can jump in um on the
legal legal side of things and management may want to jump in. So um you know one thing I would recommend whenever we do these I think I know one question I always have is the term best practice
is used a lot. Well when you say that I think it's important to point to who else is doing it. Um I'm not aware of a conflict of interest formed. What I'm aware of is a financial
disclosure requirement. All of you do that. I do that. Other designated staff and statute do that because we're considered what they call local officers. So, usually uh now governments can
expand that list. You can designate other positions to file a financial disclosure form. What's a financial disclosure form? try to disclose uh where you get your income and what other potential financial conflicts you
could have. So, if you're interested in having that discussion, that's what I would recommend you discuss. And I wouldn't say just with this particular group, what classes of employees would you want to expand to make those local
officers? Um these are statecertified positions that were required to go through training uh when they start including ethics. Um and
they could be subject to action on that certification by the state. So that's another layer as well. We also have ethics requirements already in our code that apply to everybody that would address these types of
situations. So, um, happy to answer questions if you have have them. I I think if you do want to talk about it, I think it should be in the context of that financial disclosure discussion. Do you want to expand that list or not? >> Okay. I'm I'm really looking to and I
think I think they they have a policy to prevent now since this has been brought up and maybe before there's a policy to prevent this before there's a financial exchange made I George isn't isn't there don't you have
a procedure to make sure that if an inspector's going out and his brother-in-law or cousin is on the job that he sends somebody else or is it Is there a procedure like that already or is there a procedure? >> No, there's not. Because [clears throat]
just like sending a police officer to a situation, I mean, they have to make decisions and you have and like they say, they they have ethics training, they have ethics rule, they have licenses. So to insinuate that someone would favor and lose their license and their livelihood because their
brother-in-law is hammering nails up on the roof, I think is a uh a little bit of a stretch. Um uh again, you know, if if you bag groceries at Wind Dixie, five years later, you're now an inspector and
you got to go work uh on a project uh rehabilitation uh project on a Wind Dixie. I don't think you're going to favor Wind Dixie because you you bag groceries there or you did something. So, what level where does it start and stop, you know, and I think that's some of the question. Again, we also have a
chief building official who oversees the work and uh there's a lot of u I think policing that goes on by just having good supervision and what's you know what's happening on the project to follow the project. I mean uh Ray can
speak to you know if you had a direct relative or something maybe as the owner of the house but also keep in mind we're a small town. uh we have a limited amount of uh of of inspectors and um so
you know I think we try the best we can to avoid any kind of a of a conflict and again that's what I leave to Rey and his uh folks to do. Um, but I've [clears throat] never really seen a a situation where uh, again, if you've ever worked at that company or had some
connection in the past, you couldn't go back in years later and be an inspector or an engineer or uh, many other things. As Mike says, there are other positions in the government than I think you'd have to take a look at and decide where decisions are made. I mean, you might
have worked at um uh you know, a company that you know, maybe now we're buying stuff from, but again, Mike can go over the levels of where you know, if you're a principal in that company, that's one thing versus being just an employee. So,
>> one thing I, you know, it may be one another presentation on it. Um, if you go to your code of ordinances, um, 86-43, there's a series of, uh, ethical requirements that apply to
all of your employees. Um, and there's a section on conflicts of interest. It's rather specific. Um, it largely follows state law and it's a bit more restrictive in some areas. Um, and I I just think it's important
that folks know that uh that applies to all of us. So, um, if there's questions about that or changes you want to make, we're happy to discuss with you. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm going to let the other council members speak, but I that one
was a in particular a concern to me because I I think it's human nature that if you if an inspector goes to a job and his best friend, cousin, family member is there, it's hard,
it could be hard not to uh to uh fudge a little bit, especially if there's no record through the Amanda system. uh emails or or whatever if nothing has to be reported. It's just u so I I I
still have a concern with that. Um Councilman Kent, Chairman, I only have comments, no questions. So I'll yield until the questions are all asked. >> Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Um Jonathan, I just have one question. So if you can go back uh a couple slides, one more there.
There. And it's just forgive my ignorance when I and I guess what stood out to me the second item $21,500 statute statutory non-compliance county collected $7,178 should have been 28 but it says Florida statute allows four
times that would be up to is that discretionary >> correct >> okay so you're that number is based on the four times >> correct >> so it could be that or it could be a lot less if they went one time correct >> correct >> okay all right so I just it looks like it's a wow, you know, like $28,000 when
it could be significantly less if if that was the case that they didn't charge up to the four times. >> Should should say could have. >> Could have. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that's all I had, Chair. Thank you. >> Uh, Councilman Johansson, did you have a question or a comment? Okay. Okay. Uh,
Councilman Santiago for questions. >> Thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, may maybe this is a question for the other staff. when we because the question is around inspectors. I think that was one of the commentaries. When we send an inspector over to a site to um inspect,
what are they what is their job? >> Their job their job is to inspect to make sure they meet the Florida building code >> that the project the whatever was done was done properly. >> That's right. That's right. They're licensed. They're trained.
uh you know they could be trained to be an electrical inspector or a plumbing inspector and if that inspection is done they're there to make sure that it is uh constructed in accordance with the code. Do >> you think that an inspector inspecting a
relatives or cousins or someone's house would approve of a project that was done subpar? >> No sir I don't. >> Okay. I didn't think so. Thank you. >> Councilman Grant for a comment. Thanks, chairman.
So, Mr. Edwards, um, you can't see what I wrote down up here, but then next to your name, I wrote one word, bravo. Um, you know, when you when you work in the public like this, you know, we we bring people up for proclamations and
some wonderful things and we applaud them. [clears throat] We get pictures with them. But when you work in the public, you got to talk about the ugly things as well. And fortunately, in the three and a half years that I've been sitting in this rented seat, uh there's only been two
moments where I think it's gotten a little ugly. And um the first one was the issue at the ocean center where people were, you don't have give me the cash, I'll put it on my credit card.
Like my jaw dropped. I was like, what in the what is going on? you know, disgusted by that. And some of the things I've read and heard today disgust me as well, but it's it happens in the public domain. So, we're going to talk
about it in the public domain. For me, council, the thing that jumps out at me, in addition to the inappropriateness we heard about and people leaving was the total estimated annual revenue impact of $400 plus,000.
So, chairman, I'll just tell you right now, I feel like if there's a reinspection, absolutely that fee needs to be collected. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. And then I'll just tell you as far as the AUG rate, not updated for 19
years because, you know, I've I've been adamant about you don't hammer anybody over the head with a club. You know, you do small incremental increases, but if this is something that is needed, I am one that if it hasn't been done in 20
years, you know, you got to get it right. You got to get that number correct. So if you have to do a big increase, you have to do a big increase and then moving forward, they're small incremental increases after that time. I
think all of the fixes that you um put out for us to follow, I think they're appropriate and um I look forward to talking to staff about why only some of them partial implementations.
Um because I think that yet again you've done your job very well and and you've presented pro real problems and then also possible problems that could happen and I I'm appreciative of that so that
we can then kind of stop reassess make a plan and fix it so that we don't have these problems continuing to happen. Um, I too like to think, chairman, that if someone was inspecting something and
they knew someone, they wouldn't fudge anything. But man, you're dealing with humans. You know, these aren't angels. You know, these are humans on Earth. And um I almost feel like if something were
implemented in place to where [clears throat] if an inspector had a family member and or a close friend, they could still inspect the property, but there needs to be something on the form that they alert the supervisor,
hey, heads up. I'm doing this, but I want you to know, you know, sort of like we disclose, hey, we talked to this this um applicant met with us privately about something. We we disclose that here publicly. I almost feel like there should be a button they can press so
that their boss at the end of the day or at the end of the week or at the beginning of the week can say, "Hey, so I appreciate you telling me about that. I want to make sure everything's good to go. You know, I I know it is because I know you as an employee type of thing." I think that could solve it. >> Thanks. Yeah, they agree. Uh, Councilman
Johansson, >> thank you, sir. And, uh, Jonathan, thank you for your audit as always. Uh, very thorough. Um, so there there are a few policies that that
I think we can adjust here. They've been reported. George is looking at them. I'm sure he'll bring them to us once he's done his research on on possible fee structure changes and uh things of that nature. Um
but like all things, we can't negate risk unless we stay in our houses and put bubble wrap around us and not go out uh and and sample the beauties of the world. And and I think this is one of them where uh as Councilman Robin said,
we're at 99 something%. Um uh does Mr. Tiner assume some risk? You bet he does. Does George assume some risk? You bet he does. But but at some point uh you can't spend all that time
and energy um to to get to zero risk. Uh I I didn't do it my time in the military. We don't do it every time we get in a car. Uh we try to make our cars safer, but people still die in cars every day. Uh so I I I think we're
tracking here. Um uh I appreciate the the chairman's attempt, not attempt, but uh his his letting the public know that that the social media and the news um uh may have may have indicated things may
be wrong. We've determined that there's fixes that need to be in place, but there's no smoking gun, so to speak. So, uh, I think we I I think we press on with this and and allow George to to give us some recommendations on how to
improve policy. Um, the county manager brings up a good point, though. Um, this is a small county. Uh, I moved here 12 years ago and and I'm sure there are others in this county that aren't related to
anybody in this county, but I've met a heck of a lot of people that are related or otherwise good friends with people in this county. when it comes to uh my time as a city manager, billing officials and and and folks of that nature uh have
either worked for a civilian organization, will go work for a civilian organization, have been in construction or will go to construction, know the people that are that are working on these uh subdivisions and
homes and permits. and um uh and it it's hard not to have relationships. Um, but I rely on the professionalism of the folks here and the culture that that Valuchia County uh, management and folks
have to to keep it as honest as you can, knowing that we have leaders, uh, like Ray and George and Suzanne in this particular situation. They can address those when they uh, when they find them
and correct them uh, uh, as necessary quickly. Uh so uh pinning George's recommendations and and possible policy changes here based on this audit of which some of some of which he's agreed
to. Um uh I I I think we're good to go for now from my perspective. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh George, I'm going to let you close this out. Councilman Santiago has uh another comment before then. Do you want to him go first?
>> Um I I just want to go on the record first. I'm I'm not for any fee increases. Um we haven't been told that this this u silo under our budget approval is short of any funds. So absolutely no for me. And Matt,
thanks for pointing out the the the should have been um where it could be. Um because and I think this this audit um showed certainly definitely some improvements that could be made. Some have already been made. Some faces are no longer here that did find some
problems. Um so I think we're on a path as the chairman said there are no smoking gun. I don't know if we said those words exactly but I'll describe it that way. >> Um and um I think a lot of the what you know I sat down with the auditor and looked over this report prior to this
too as many of us did. Um, I've seen a lot of management type of decisions in here, um, that are in the realm of the county manager, for example, the fee stuff. So, um, I I and when I see an audit, I I would be more prefer
preferable to see where are we in violation of certain statutes or internal policies. Uh, recommendations for what we could have done are are more opinion. um it
should lie in the path of our our county manager. But an audit for me should be we are in violation of X Y and Z because opinions vary. We could we could have hundred different opinions here if I gave you what the problem is. Um and so
my ask is that I will not well my statement will I will not support any fee increases and my ask is that as we move forward with audits that they are uh less opinionated um but more in the factual pieces that
identify violations in county policy or state law or federal laws. So but I thank everybody for the work. I think it was a good exercise and I think we're on the right path. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Um before I call on George, I I just want
to say again to you, Mr. Edwards, that I I've read the whole the report several times. I didn't find an opinion in it. I found you went to other resources and found standard operating procedures and
repeated those. That's not an opinion. That's just this is what's happening in other places. Um, and I agree that, you know, if somebody goes to your home to inspect it and his brother-in-law is there, is he going to pass something
over that would be unsafe? Uh, probably not. But what concerns me, and George can deal with this if he cares to as he wraps this up, is that we've had three people that don't work here anymore that did
uh during your investigation. I think one of them might have retired, two of them are gone. That concerns me. Why were they gone? And so I I do want to see and I appreciate the re recommendations that you made to tighten it up a little bit to keep a problem
from happening. Um I think the county has done a a good job with that. They've disagreed with you on on a few uh things for reasons that you've heard here, but um George is one more person. So, I'm going to let all the council people
speak before you uh deal with this. Uh, Councilman Robbins. Um, nothing other than Chair, I didn't hear any, uh, policy changes from, uh, the council. I was just going to make a motion to accept the report. >> Second.
>> Okay. Uh, motion to accept by Councilman Robbins, second by Santiago. Councilman Santiago. I was going to make uh one we'll I'll mention that after if I need to after George speaks.
County manager. >> Thank you. Uh I do have a couple things I think need to be uh touched on a little bit more or a little bit more clarification. Uh the all use group uh fee increase is in the works. Uh, I want
to point out that there are many building fees and all the others are tied to a CPI, I believe, so already. So that's why you you only got one that somehow got left behind and that'll get fixed. And again, that's
all used structures typically like a a metal building or something like that. So it's not a prepoundonderance of work. So I just want everyone to understand it. That's a unique category that kind of got left behind. The other part I actually like to have
Suzanne Ray speak to uh the potential lost revenue 382,000 and the reinspection. uh there's a [clears throat] there are methods in the field when when you do construction and
when you get into uh the partial failure uh versus the total failure I think that needs to be explained by these guys why the effect of that why an inspector would make that determination um versus just an absolute no what that
does to all the workers and what that does to the project itself So basically um you know the philosophy of our building division is to try to work with that contractor and with that owner to get in compliance. That is the
main thing. We're like like it was stated earlier. It's not up to the building uh department to make money. Um you know our our our our permit fees pay for it. We're we're sitting really good right now. Um but it is to get in
compliance. you know, you got a lot of mom paws that um are are building out there and uh so some small businesses, for example, and an inspector will go out. If it's not a life safety issue and they're going to come out the next day or that week for another inspection,
they're almost there. If you fail it, it it it stops the whole process. Uh you'll you'll have to wait. They would have to wait to come out and get another call inspection to reinspect that. So it is it is to keep that project moving
forward. Uh if it is a life safety uh hazard, we'll fail that inspection and then we'll have to go back and do that. So and then in some circumstances um you may have a phase project like a commercial project where you got
numerous plumbing activities uh going on on that site. So you go there and do like the first phase of the plumbing and um you know kind of partial that because you know you're going to need to come back and do the rest of the plumbing. So it's all different circumstances. These
the folks that have the licenses have the ability to to make sure it's uh you know not a life safety issue and if they can if they can partial that and come out the next day or or two days to do another inspection, you're out there anyway uh to go ahead and take care of
that. So that that is has been the philosophy is to work with these owners and then you know if you do charge the the um the uh more of an inspection fee you know that's going to be that's going to go to the homeowner you know uh
typically we'll pay those inspection fees if it's a single family home for example but that that has been the philosophy. >> Thank you. Um was anybody else going to speak? You spoke for everybody right? Yes. Okay. Uh, Councilman Santiago.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And there's exactly where I think this council has historically talked about making sure that on all levels of the departments in the within the county to make it customer centric, right? The experience that our citizens interact because what
we've heard prior is that how heavy-handed government has been in especially in these silos in the past and amongst other areas. So, um, we we don't want to, uh, risk quality or safety, absolutely not. We won't, uh, uh, give
on that, right? But to work with homeowners and citizens in our county, as an individual council member, I say applaud that amongst all the departments uh, within the county. So, we never sacrifice safety or violating any laws, but focusing on our constituents service
is key number one for me. That's my position. >> Thank you. Uh George, before I call on the vote, did you just say that fees are coming back and someone that we will discuss those? >> Yeah, you're you're going to discuss
fees later today. Uh I don't know if this one's on there or not, but I don't think it is, but the all uh the all user group, that's a specific category of many other building fees. the all the other building fees are tied already to a CPI. So, they're already uh have been
dealt with. This is one category which was, you know, I'm glad was found. Uh I don't know how it got missed, but it got missed. And that is again some of the value of having someone checking behind. They found that this fee had somehow been left behind [clears throat] and uh
and because of that possibly even was being misused as a category because it's an all structure category. So people I think could put stuff in there maybe seeing that it was not the right fee and I think Jonathan addressed some of that in in his discussion. So the idea uh we
needed to tighten that up. It absolutely needs to be raised to where it needs to be. Uh but I also want to let everyone know that that's one little fee out of tons of other fees that were already taken care of. And again that's the value of going back and looking to make sure nothing got left behind. And I want
to reemphasize what Ray said. You know, when you have like a he mentioned a plumbing or electrical, remember when you're building a structure, you it's rare that you would do the entire plumbing or some of these at once. You're building the structure and then you're covering things up and these
guys have to go out there periodically as the project progresses. So, there's going to be a lot of partial inspections on these various areas because they got to get out there and again, if they pass that particular section, then they're free to go ahead and move to the next
section. So they're going to partial a lot of things because they're going to it's going to be phased. So I mean I think that's just something that's uh and they're a charge every single time when they're going to go out there. You don't plum the entire house necessarily
and then and then inspect. You could depending on the size of it, but if it's a commercial builder in another area, you may have to go in and do a section of it and then cover it up and then do the next section of it. So what we're doing in a lot of cases is taking advantage of the fact that our
inspectors are multiple certified. So they can go on out and again they're out there for another reason. Why hit the person with another fee when you're out there anyway and you can go ahead and finish up on some other idea that they were looking at some other item. So again, it's just about being customer
friendly. The cost ultimately does go back to uh the the builder, I mean the owner of the building or the structure. So again, we don't want our fees to be uh part of the, you know, we hear it all the time. Oh my god, I have to pay all these impact fees. I got to pay all this
all before I ever get my house. So, you know, again, we're not trying to be part of that. Uh we're trying to be efficient when we're out there and that causes, yes, we maybe give up a little revenue in doing that, but again, it's being done uh so that our uh people can be
efficient and work and have good customer service. That's really what it's all about. I don't want them out there ever thinking, geez, I can come back and make more money. That's But money should never be part of what they're thinking. Their their thinking needs to be all about the quality. What do I need to do to make sure this is in
compliance, that project's done correctly, and then we'll we'll worry about what the cost of that is. Um, it's, you know, we're not going to balance the budget on with speed traps, you know, and that type of thing. we we
have to do it u with uh you know the correct way but I appreciate it and it is something to pay attention to and I do agree with something that uh he said many most of what he said but the idea is really that's the point is you we we'll manage the balance of the uh of
that fund that's something that Ryan does and we take a look and we'll see where that's at. uh that's not for the guys in the field to be worrying about where the where the you know our fee balance and all that is that this it is a separate issue and that's something that gets managed at our level and uh
and then we'll come to you and say hey uh we're we're obviously uh because of the workload or what have you there's too many fees coming in and we need to we need to cut that fee or give a discount or do something if we're going to go we have not found we haven't had
that happen yet but it in theory could happen as it apparently did in Daytona Beach. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. We have a That satisfies me what you've said about uh fees. That was a a concern. Um
Jonathan, before I call for the vote, thank you for this. You have an uncomfortable position. You're independent and yet you work with all of us. You you pass everybody in the hall. And I I appreciate that you do the hard things and I appreciate how the how the
uh county staff responds to you and um so it's good work. Thank you. And thank you uh Ray, Mike, George for your input. Sunshine uh was the best way to to deal with this because there was too many questions
floating around. So uh all in favor of approving Jonathan's report, please say I. I >> any opposed and the report is re approved six to zero.
All right. And that takes us to item three proclamation which will be presented here in chambers Larry Langden day. And I believe Matt
Run Hart is going to do that. >> Family. >> Thank you. Thank you, chair. Gentlemen, um I said you wouldn't get through the day without me talking about corrections, so here you go. Um, in my 30-year career, while out there, I had some notes, and I I'll refer to some of
them. A letter that I prepared, Larry was honored from Daytona State. He was one of their instructors for our cadetses, uh, that went through the Academy for Corrections. Um, Larry and I, we put How many years were you, Etle? >> 27. >> 27 years. So, in my career as a
lieutenant, we brought this young man on board and he told some stories. Every time I go out to talk to the cadets at Daytona State, Larry would invite me and that conversation went from about a half hour to about three hours, I think. But, uh, oftentimes Larry would honor me by
telling, uh, his cadets about my career. Well, this is our time to do the same for him. Uh, I've often said anybody in the field of law enforcement or emergency services or first responders in general, um, heroes wear either
badges or capes. We wear badges. So, and I came here today, I wanted to make sure that Larry was honored for his outstanding career as a trainer. He's probably by far, I've said this before, the absolute best, not one of, the absolute best trainer that has ever hit
Valuchia County as far as corrections and law enforcement in general. Uh, phenomenal, phenomenal man. Uh, great husband, I'm sure, and great dad. So, uh, but he is a pillar of this community and I think he should be honored. Um
there are several words that I came before I read the the proclamation that came to mind that that make me think of a leader. Uh integrity, accountability, empathy, humility, confidence, respect, reliability, commitment, empowerment,
persuasiveness, but the key one I love is inspiration because you're an inspiration to so many that you have taught. There are so many people that have already reached out to me as we was talking today. Scott Stilner. >> Yeah. >> Our mayor in Fort Orange said, "Make sure to give Larry my best." So, he's probably one of the best he's ever come
in contact. And I and I contradict and I say, "No, he is the best." So, without further ado, I'll get on with all the whereazes. Whereas, Larry Langden began his career in Valuchia County Division of Corrections as a correction officer trainee in 1994, rising through the
ranks to captain in May 2013 and warden, replacing me in 2017. And whereas as captain responsible for training and professional development, he possessed the rare gift of not only teaching policies, procedures, and techniques, but instilling confidence,
professionalism, integrity, and pride in those he instructed. And whereas he stood that every uh he understood that every recruit in his classroom would one day bear the responsibility for the safety and security of others. and he approached every class with dedication,
preparation, and genuine care. Whereas, he ultimately earned the position of warden, and he earned it. A well-deserved honor that reflected the respect of his peers, subordinates, and leadership, and he led with professionalism, humility, and character.
Whereas after retiring from Valuchia County in January 2020, he continued serving profession his profession as an adjunct uh faculty member at Daytona State Colleg's criminal justice department, a position he held from August 1999 to June 2026, preparing the
next generation of corrections officers in Valuchia and Flaggler counties. And whereas beyond his professional accomplishments, Larry is a devoted husband to his wife Renee, a loving father and a person of exceptional character who treats others with
respect, compassion, and dignity. Now therefore, we the county council of Valuchia County, Florida here proclaim August 4th, 2026 as Larry Langden day in Valuchia County invite all residents to honor this outstanding man for his service and dedication to the criminal
justice system. Welld deserved, my friend. >> Oh, thank you, Councilman from Catholic. Thank you for taking the time for this. I appreciate it. >> Want to have a few words. >> Oh, no. [laughter] >> You don't get the proclamation if you
don't speak. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time. You made me proud in front of my family and that means a lot to me in front of this community. But truth be told, um it has been my honor and privilege to serve Valuchia County
for all these years and I am grateful for that opportunity. County Council, thank you so much. >> Hold on one second. County Manager George Rectimald. >> Yeah, I just uh wanted to weigh in a little bit, Larry. I mean uh a lot of
times when I get called out to the jail, it's not always a good thing. And uh uh I but I have to tell you my I've known Larry uh quite a few years and I would just say uh every time I was out there,
every time I interacted with uh Mr. Langden, absolute professional. Uh I don't think uh you could have said it any better in that uh proclamation. I'm glad you are imparting that and you're training people. You are the
example of what I love to see out there. You are absolutely uh you know so positive in a profession that needs it because of what you have to deal with on a daily basis. Thank you for uh continuing on by uh the process of
teaching and training and uh you're just a a great asset to our whole community and I want to thank you because I know it hasn't been easy. So yeah, thank you. >> Thank you so much. Thanks again. >> All right. You got the nice frame.
You get up and I'll >> Thank you very much for your service. Okay. Can I get a motion to approve this uh proclamation? >> Second. >> Motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt, second by Councilman Robbins.
Uh all in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? Motion is approved. Five to zero. We'll ask uh Troy when he comes in if he approves. Item four is presentation on the Valuchia County Medical
Examiner's annual report. And you are here. I know you've been busy the last couple days. So, >> yes, sir. >> All right. We're going to present directly from the PDF today. Did I get a clicker? Oh,
>> lovely. Outstanding. >> Welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate council for having me. Um, I was reminded of a couple things during public comment. Someone mentioned legacy projects. >> And as a board certified forensic pathologist with 18 years experience,
I'd like to submit to the county that the building you built me is a legacy project. I've been in it for three years now. It's performed exemplary at every level. It's built for the future. It is a multi- multi multi-deade
facility. I have no reservation saying that it I will be long dead by the time you repair that building. I promise you that. So, and there's a picture of it. Uh the other thing I was reminded of uh was my my executive summary is number
one, we're fully accredited yet again. we were inspected again and there was some uh comments about uh I guess nepotism and uh you know people doing things that are dishonest. It should be pointed out that the National Association of Medical Examiners their
accreditation of us is an independent audit of our entire practice. They look at everything and it's not Joe Blow off the street. It is a boardcertified forensic pathologist with zero financial ties to this county or myself that comes
in and inspects our entire building, our procedures, our policies and our personnel and our staffing. So that is in some ways a uh an audit if you will. All right, so now onto the presentation. Oh, one last thing for the executive
summary in case you get get bored with me is that uh overdoses are down to baseline. We talk about that every year. Uh we have finally made it back to our pre-COVID baseline for overdoses in this county. Uh if you've been listening me speak before, our old average was about
180. We went up to uh unfortunately 400 in one year and now we're back down to about 180 again. So we've made progress in that. Um I'll just head off the questions before you ask them. Why is that? Uh lots of things changed, but I would point to the recovery alliance. I
would point to law enforcement. I would report to all the projects the county has going that make life better for people and help people in recovery and also bring justice to those uh that need it. So
uh wrong way. Which way do I click? Oh, do I have to actually There we go. Does it work? That's okay. Yeah, this is I can just say next page. It's fine. Uh this is just who I employ. Next page.
Uh this is uh the overview of the death investigation system in Florida. It's in every annual report. Um it shows the manners of death and then the statutes uh that govern my practice. Next slide. Uh this is just basic demographics of the county. Next slide.
Uh this is who we service. Uh this is the people we brought in. Generally speaking, it's middle-aged people. We do a few children, a few teenagers. We have a gross male preponderance. Uh that's because risk takingaking behavior is increased in men. That's just everywhere
in the country. That's not surprising at any level. Next slide. Uh so this is our jurisdictional requirements and what we brought in. These are cases that were called into us. We're autopsying or evaluating about half the people that are called into to
us. This is above the national average. Uh you might may ask why so many people call and we decline. Uh, for instance, there hospice patients are always called into us. It's expected. It's known, but they die at home. So, we just want to be aware of what's going on and make sure there's nothing nefarious. Um, and in
fact, I think that's one of the hallmarks of the good job we're doing is that we do decline and take reports on a lot of natural deaths. If you don't hear about the 80-year-old lady that died with lung cancer, you don't have an opportunity to know that she died of an overdose that no one tells you about it, right? So, we're at least we're bringing
those in at some level or doing some paper evaluation. Next slide. Uh jurisdiction by case. Uh obviously quite a few accidents. Uh very few homicides, only 21 this year. Normally we're a little above that or this is
2025, sorry. Um and of course those are all getting autopsies. Uh so nothing really changed except our uh overdoses uh which dropped significantly. Next slide. Uh this is accepting cases in blue and declines in red. You'll see we're quite
consistent. I would point out there was a very big change between uh 2019 and 2020. That's uh largely due to COVID, but we're still bringing in quite a few cases uh compared to pre-COVID time. Next slide. Cremations. There's an
error in this. I apologize. The actual number is 5,630. We missed a quarter in our calculation. We'll revise this. So, cremation certificates are up uh slightly, which is not surprising given our growth. Next slide. Deaths by manner. This is
something I haven't showed you before, but I thought you might be curious about it. Uh, my practice in natural death cases selects for heart disease because those are people that die suddenly and dramatically. Uh, you know, lots of people have renal failure, but I don't see them because they are seen by a
physician. There's way more people dying suddenly and dramatically unexpectedly from heart disease than renal disease, if that makes sense. So that's why that number is that way and that's consistent across the country. Uh as far as our uh accidental categories, you can see our
drugrelated 178 which is a vast improvement from past years. Transportation motor vehicle collisions slightly elevated. The falls are largely elderly people that fall and break a hip almost all of them like 99% of those. Um
the other ones are kind of spread out across the board. If anyone has a particular question, I can answer later. Next slide. Motor vehicle fatalities slightly increased this year, but not stat statistically significant. We're pretty
much back at our 2023 level. Next slide. Uh suicides as in this as is true in most uh places in this country, firearms are the most common uh cause of suicide in this uh in this category. Uh aphixia is almost always a hanging. Uh the other
categories are less uh common. We did have one undetermined which I know is awkward. Uh we do know it's a suicide. It's kind of semantics why it's undetermined because uh in the categories it involved both a vehicle and a liature. So we didn't have a good
box to put it in. That's why it was called undetermined. Uh homicides mostly firearms, a small conglomeration of blunt force trauma, MVAs, and environmental. Undetermined cases are those in which uh despite our best efforts, we are unsure
of a cause and manner of death. Uh most of those are um there really not that many of them. Uh most of those are ones where we we're kind of between two things and we're unsure uh despite our best efforts and we just call them undetermined. Next slide.
Um those are all peer-reviewed. I should say we do have a pretty robust peerreview program. All homicides, infants, undetermined uh are reviewed, peer-reviewed uh both at an investigative level and at a medical examiner level. We are lucky to have very few pediatric uh cases in this uh
county, which is good. Most of them involve motor vehicle collisions. Our infants are are quite sad, of course. Luckily, we have very few. Um, if you look at the top uh one, two, three, four categories, take out the natural and the homicide, those are pretty much 100%
related to co-sleeping, sleeping with infants, rolling over them in bed, using unsafe unsafe sleeping conditions when you're sleeping with your infant. Uh, the others are obviously uh different, but that's pretty much what we see here. Next slide.
Fetal deaths, we rarely take jurisdiction on those. uh there has to be uh some sort of malicious uh injury to the mother. Uh and then in custody deaths, most of those are natural disease. We had two suicides and three overdoses. Uh luckily the county had the
foresight to build a very lovely tissue recovery suite in our building and our numbers are up for that. So we had uh 45 tissue donors and 76 eye donors from organization one. And then our uh organ
transplants for organization 2 would have been done in a hospital setting. So we're still collaborating with our OPOS's organ procurement organizations. Next slide. And this is what you probably want to see. Uh same pretty much the same bar graph or piraphph as
last year. Uh our we didn't have anyone over 18 this year. So our youngest person that overdosed in Valuchia County accidentally was 19. It went all the way to 77. So when you look at that little small piece of the pie in the top that
goes all the way up to age 25. So that's how many younger than 25 year olds are overdosing. So overdose is a problem of and I'm be very clear and I'm calling out myself. Baby boomers and generation X that's who's doing it. People younger
than us aren't doing drugs like our generations are. They're just not. So that's what we're seeing. Our average age went up again. We were 46 last year. Now we're 48. Our average overdose is 48 years of age. Uh the vast majority are
male. Next slide. Uh there's the male slide again. You can move on. Thank you. Uh these are the drugs represented. Fentanyl is the big player. Often mixed with cocaine and methamphetamine. That is pretty much the common thing we
see. Fentanyl plus methamphetamine. and probably a third of those cases have cocaine. The other players here are at uh much lower concentrations. Next slide. Uh this is our drug overdoses over time. You can see that graph has gone down
quite nicely from our peak in 2021 of 400 as I mentioned previously. And last slide and there we go compared to motor vehicle collisions. Uh you can see we're down to baseline which is great news. And I believe that is all the report I
have for you. >> Well, you did create some questions, although you tried to answer them all along. >> I'm I'm curious about the uh the falls, especially with older people. Um that you said they break a hip, but it led to
death. What what leads to death and what can an older person do to protect himself from that? So, uh, if you look at the medical literature, the morbidity and mortality of a hip fracture, an old person is significant. It's incredibly painful. It decreases respiratory drive.
They're not moving. They could have a clot, a pulmonary embolism, DVT, pulmonary embolism. Uh, it is highly associated with death in the elderly. Uh, they get pneumonia from it. Uh, if you stop moving as a human being, your health degrades. uh we fix and you look
at orthopedic surgeons, they fix a lot of hips in people that are actively dying of other things that are quite old because it's so painful to have a broken hip. Your your quality of life is horrific. So, that's the answer to that
question. What they can do, uh ideally, you live in a one-story home if it's possible. Ideally, you uh don't have rugs. And I'm fighting with my own r mother about this right now. Uh you do not need to have loose floor coverings at any level. Uh the other big thing we
see a lot is rolling chairs, office chairs with wheels, scoot out under them happens all the time. So office chairs, rugs, singlestory home. Um those are the big factors. There are other smaller ones. Great question.
>> Thank you. You you touched on suicides during COVID. They were they went way up. Is it down now? >> It is. Yes, it's down. Yes. Sorry, it's down. Uh, I can probably go back. I don't think we have a bar graph for it or a chart, but it is down. Uh, some
let's see if I can find it. Accidental, fetal. I think I don't think we broke it out, but it is down. Yes, it is down. I'm agreeing. >> Thank you. U motor vehicle deaths in children, is that related to car seats?
>> Uh, some of it. Uh, to be honest, I mean, most people are using a car seat. Some aren't, but the vast majority are. Our motor vehicle collisions in this uh county, which we have quite a few of them, um are largely based on aggressive
driving, some drunk driving, uh but a lot of aggressive driving for sure, a lot. I think that's the biggest factor. >> So, is the parents? >> Absolutely. No, I mean, get on Interstate 495 and go the speed limit and see how many people pass you. It's crazy.
>> I mean, it is what it is. I I don't know that Florida has the um motivation to be more draconian on their speed limits. Uh I'm from Virginia and if you go 2 miles and over the speed limit, you're getting a speed ticket. The state police will pull you over for 3 miles an hour. I guarantee it's just it's it's a cultural
thing. I don't know. >> The uh the last you've every time you're here, you talk about uh fentinol deaths and it's usually because it's mixed with other drugs. What I didn't hear this time in in your list of what it's mixed with was marijuana. Is are you still
seeing that? >> Yeah, it's very sporadic. It does happen. We do see fentanyl and marijuana, but it's infrequent. Uh to be very clear, uh if you buy drugs on the street in Valuchia County, and sometimes if it's marijuana, it doesn't matter
what your drug dealer's telling you you're taking, you're almost certainly getting fentanyl, >> cocaine, and methamphetamine. That's what we see. I I have not seen Well, look, does heroin even appear on this slide? I have families call all the time, well, they didn't do fentanyl,
they did heroin. No one's ever No one's done heroin this county for years. It doesn't exist in this county. I would know about it because I do a lot of autopsies and we do talks on everybody and we test for it every single time. You cannot buy heroin in this county.
>> It's 100% fenty. >> Wow. >> And why is that? It's easier to smuggle across our southern border. That's the bottom line. It's a more potent drug and you can package a small amount in a shipment of whatever and you're done. So, yeah, fentanyl is a very big
problem. It continues to be a problem, but that's nationwide. This is not unique to our county. >> Good question. >> Thank you. Uh, Councilman Johansson, >> I noticed that the um under 18 drownings work too. Are those the only ones you
see or is that countywide? So I do the entire county. So the caveat is if a drowning of a child gets moved to another county and they die technically die in that county like it's a near drowning and they die in the hospital
later that county takes jurisdiction. Medical examiner jurisdiction in this state is where the person dies not where the event occurs. So outside of that yes that's all we had. >> Just surprised me. I I hear about, you
know, infant deaths and infant drownings all the time like they're happening five a day. >> Not at all. No, it's not common at all. >> Not to say I want to stop any program that prevents >> The most dangerous place for an infant in Valuchia County is co-sleeping with its parents. >> Yeah, >> that's and that's across the board.
>> The most dangerous place for an infant in Valuchia County is if they're co-sleeping with their parents. Bed sharing. >> Yeah. >> Roll over. >> That's Yeah, they roll over. I mean I mean I've had people argue, well I know where my body is when I'm asleep. Well that's crazy. You're asleep. You have no idea where your body is. And we see it
all the time. Infants are obligate nose breathers. Yeah. >> If it's not malicious, but you just roll over and put something on their face, they're going to die. >> It happens. >> And [clears throat] I mean it's it's very common uh unfortunately for infants. >> And the uh the chairman uh asked the
other question about uh what the main thing is for the elderly. So, thank you for that. >> You're welcome. >> I'll be probably during council comments talking about moving a pergo floor and I'd like all the windows off our chairs removed by the next [laughter]
>> I want zero defect and zero risk. So, just kidding. Thank you very much, Doc. Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Dr. Pure, thank you very much. Thorough report as always. We're fortunate to have you. We really are. Truly are. One of the things uh a
question environmental homicide. >> Yeah, that was the child that was in the hot car. >> The hot car. Okay. So environmental, that's what you're referring to. Okay. And then um to say fentanyl still is still on the rise. >> Yeah. >> And the mixture, do you see it mixture
with opioids? And you know why I'm asking that question? My brother had passed away from an overdose due to it. So >> the answer to your question is generally no. And I think you're getting at the fake tablets and pills maybe. >> Yeah, that's what they
>> the as best as we can tell when you get those pills, they're pretty much pure fentanyl. Um it is cheaper and easier for them to make the fentanyl because that's what their process is designed to do and they're just taking the powdered drug and pressing into a pill. It >> So that's why you see a lace, maybe a lace of the opioid, not
>> you might. Yeah. Or maybe they took another pill, but when you test the actual pill, it's generally just spent. If you're if you're in the business selling drugs, why would you put something less powerful in it? Like just use pure fentanyl and then cut it. >> Like, you know, take a 2% fentanyl and
90% baking powder or whatever, push it and make your pill. Don't take oxycodone, which is much more expensive, and put it in. >> That's what his was. Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. And um the overdoses being down given thanks to V. I appreciate that. I'm realizable
job. So, and I think a lot of it can be attributed to them. So, thank you for pointing that out. >> The community support is is a big change. And then and I mean I'm not going to lie to you, enforcement matters, too. The sheriff's efforts, everyone has a great job. >> Yes, he has. >> They have. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilman Kent.
>> Thanks, Chairman. >> Doctor, we get to see you once a year and um that's a good thing, I think. >> Come back again if you want. >> Well, I [clears throat] think it's a good thing that we see you once a year and you come and give us this report. I have a question and then a quick comment. So my my question is looking at
the drugs and of course you know you you've already touched on this a little bit but this stuck with me last year when you talked about it the year before that when you talked about it. So fentanyl's number one and then you know methamphetamine cocaine it goes all the way down but in the past you had told us
that you're buying drugs on the street if you're doing that there's fentanyl involved in it for the most part like almost 100%. Yes. >> Is that still true? >> Yeah, that's correct. It's almost certainly true. At least the people that are dying, right? And um my my comment
to you was, you know, I just want to remind everybody in the audience uh and and on the deis here that before this council was seated, the um medical examiner's office was sometimes in the newspaper and on the news and it
wasn't a good thing. >> It was not. And I just want to say it has been smooth sailing with you and I'm appreciative of that smooth sailing. So keep the ship going at its current rate and and as Mr. Reinhardt said, we we
appreciate the hard work that you're doing. Thank you so much, sir. >> Thank you, Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you. Can [clears throat] you elaborate a little bit on the pedestrian deaths? >> Sure. Pedestrian deaths. Um do we have the slide on that?
Pedestrian deaths. uh generally occur uh in certain areas of the county. Um I won't lie to you, our unhoused population is a significant portion of those. People that are jaywalking on beach side. Um if you are sober and
using a crosswalk, you are likely not to be a pedestrian death. Um but we see a fair number of people laid out at night drinking, other drug use, jaywalking. Those are the people that die. Um same thing with bicycles. Uh I know cycling
and ebikes has become a hot topic recently, but uh in our uh bicycle fatalities, the most of those uh that when the bicycle's at fault, the person is either running through a stop sign, breaking some traffic law, uh intoxicated
um or uh just uh using it for primary transportation uh in an unhoused situation. the the people that are wearing spandex and uh like the sheriff are not getting killed on bikes at a high rate at any level. These are people that are using the bikes for transportation. Probably not in a safe
way. I should point out half the time the vehicle's at fault though. Uh and this is on my analysis and I should just say it because I ride a bike for exercise. When when people riding bicycles die in this county, it's because of two reasons. someone's
passing them too close and gets impatient and basically runs them off the road or hits them. And the other one which is an engineered problem is when you have a bike lane and then a right turning lane and the bike lane splits the two travel lanes and that's I don't know what the solution to that is. Um
but it's it's tough and people aren't thinking about it and the bike's there and there's a speed differential and we see those too. So that is that's I don't know how you fix that one though. The reason I asked about the pedestrians, I wanted to know the trends because I think a few years ago there was a report where I think Valuchia ranked really
high compared to the rest of Florida on that. Is that trend going down? >> I believe so. Um I would have to pull that exact data on pedestrians. I have transportation broken out and I believe our transportation includes pedestrians. So uh to my knowledge it is uh at a
normal level for this county at this point in time. But I normally it's the stable from previous years. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Um and now you mentioned ebikes. Interesting. It's been a very big topic. Um have we had any ebike deaths? >> Only a handful actually. When you look at I I I was prepared for this question.
It's only been one or two a year. It's not nearly as many as you'd think. It's surprising. >> Age. >> Age. Uh most of them uh older people unhoused. >> Okay. Uh >> yeah, I don't think we've had we may
have had one child die, but it's been a it's it's a small number. >> Okay. >> And my last question is regarding the overdoses. Again, I like to see trends, right? I know you show us how we did here. I also like to see how and you may not have this added, so I apologize. >> Um how do we compare to our neighboring
counties to the rest of the state? Because I like to see how well are we doing here in Valuchia. So uh we have a annual report of the uh the Florida Association of Medical Examiners. We have a drugs and deceased report and I think we are uh probably average for the
the state. I would have to pull those numbers exactly to see but in a general sense I think we are we've made vast improvements internally and I think our current baseline is uh near our peer group average. And and I when people ask me where do we go from here with the
overdoses, the answer's down. You know, we have room to improve. 178 sounds great when a couple years ago it was 400, but it's still 178 people that should be alive. >> So, yeah, I think the answer is we are at baseline near peer groups, but have
room to improve. >> Great question. >> County Manager George Real. >> Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want [clears throat] to make a quick comment. Uh first building off of what uh Councilman uh Kent said. Uh I just want
to thank you being part of the group that that got you here. Uh you've done everything we asked at the time and you said you'd do and then some. And and I want to brag on the fact of, you know, he gives this report here, but uh Dr. Fulture is very available to the
community and and has spoken in many places. Uh I get compliments all the time. Um, again, he's a teacher. He goes out. He He's doing a lot of uh training and teaching of other folks. Uh, I think honestly I'm I don't want this to get
out too far, but uh I think he's the best in the state and [clears throat] uh we're very very fortunate to have him because not only how great of a scientist and everything he is, but how great of a person he is in our community, what he's willing to do, he cares. And I think that's one of the big
things that uh you know in a position like that uh he takes care of this county very well. We're very I'm very proud to have you and work with you. >> Thank you. I do I should have made one other comment. We're still doing all our educational stuff as well. And uh I am
currently now not the secretary of fame, the Florida Association of Medical Examiners, but the president-elect. So I'll be uh serving as the president next year of the Florida Association. So we'll be guiding some policy there. Good. Just to uh recap what George said,
I I I think this has come out every year you've been here. It always blows my mind. How many of you are there in the country qualified degreed professional medical examiner? >> It's approximately 5 to 600 and the as
the national >> 50 states. >> Yeah. The National Institute of Justice thinks we need about a thousand people. So, we're still missing about half our workload. uh the fellowships, which is the training program right before you get out on your own. They only filled halfway last year. So, there's still not
as much interest in what I do as you'd think, which is sad. That's one of the reasons my efforts with the local FSU med school chapter is so important. And then we also actually we had to buy it, but we have an insurance policy now. We can take students that aren't in that program uh that are coming to us from
all sorts of states. We just took someone from South Carolina. You you know that UF has a med school too, right? >> Oh, yeah. I work I teach there. I teach there. I teach at UF. And I will point out that uh my UF colors that are normally in the annual report were not
ADA compliant. So, we changed to red and blue instead of orange and blue apparently. >> Who knew? >> Well, 500 of you. We have 67 counties in Florida and so every state has a bunch of counties. So that that's we we are very fortunate to have you and this
facility that you you go together well. So thank you for your service. >> I appreciate it. >> Yes. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Can I get a motion to uh approve his report? >> Second. >> Motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Second was by uh uh Ken
Johansson. Um all in favor say I. >> Any opposed? You are approved. Six to zero. Thank you again. >> Thank you. I appreciate your time. >> And Troy K, I need to ask you on item three, the proclamation from uh I was a yes. Thank you, chair.
>> So that was six to zero there, Cararissa. [laughter] Okay. Um item five is first, this is a chicken ordinance, isn't it? First reading of ordinance 2026-05 amending chapter 72 of
the code of ordinances to amend zoning classifications and on backyard chicken regulations. >> That is correct. Good morning. Carol McFarland, planning and development services director. Um we have talked about
right one here. Nope, that's not it. Help me out, Carissa. All right, there we go. There's two of them here, so it threw me off a little bit. All right, good morning. So, we've talked about this ordinance before. Um, this was directed
um by council to staff last year. This uh proposed ordinance that you have in front of you, um, one of the things that it does is allow backyard chickens by right instead of a special conditional use permit. um eliminates the need for building permits, eliminates slot size
requirement, um eliminates the need for an IFAS course. Um what we're really trying to do is enable the uh citizens to have this without having to go through any kind of special permission or courses through UF. It also increases the number of chickens
allowed. Prior ordinance only allowed five um chickens regardless of lot size. So we've instituted a sliding scale The benefits are saving money for county residents, um, efficient staff use of
staff time, expands eligibility into the backyard chickens program, and we're keeping all the existing provisions that, um, helped with the public health and safety. Uh, mostly the roosters is the biggest problem by far. Vast majority of our code complaints about
chickens is because of the roosters. Those were never allowed and they are still not allowed. So, this is a a summary of our public hearings that we've had throughout the process. Um, went to PLDRC twice. The first time they had some suggestions and
some input from the public to help make a better ordinance. And it was recently, uh, forwarded to county council with the recommendation of approval on May 21st. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Thank you very much
for bringing this. This is something I brought up a year ago. Um, so thank you for bringing this back. Um, and we still have, real quick question. Um, we still have the UF instructors, there you go, University of Florida out there at the fairgrounds that assist with training in that aspect as well, which is good to
know. And we'll have that information out there for them. But that being said, motion to approve. >> Okay, we have a motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Second was uh by Councilman Robbins. Just one question for you. Do you Roosters are the big
problem? >> Yes. >> Do you know how to get a rooster to not crow? >> Let's hear it. >> Pressure cooker. [laughter] >> Sorry. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve the new chicken ordinance.
Uh, sorry, Suzanne Ki. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a reminder to council, this is first reading. Um, so this will come back to it. Is it scheduled for the next meeting, Carol? For second reading. >> Um, it is not. We're looking at September.
>> That'll be your final adoption. Just >> Okay. >> of the community. >> Okay. Uh, all in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And first reading is approved six to zero. Thank you very much. >> Chair, can you clarify who made the second on that?
>> Uh, Councilman Robbins. Item six, resolution of proposed vacation for a portion of plat number two of West Island. Motion to approve spear. >> Second. Oh, Matt beat me. No, Matt got it.
>> Okay. Motion to approve came from Councilman Robbins and the second was by Councilman Santiago. Uh, any questions for Tad, who has not yet opened his mouth? Any comments? All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? Vacation is approved six to zero. Um item seven, ordinance 2026-11, smallcale comp plan amendment of 1 acre from the OEN vill commercial villages
OCB. >> Right. Good morning again. Carol McFarland, planning and development services director. This is um items seven and eight are companion cases. Item seven is the future land use amendment and item eight is the
reasonzoning. If we approve one, we have to approve the other. Um item eight is a quasi judicial hearing. So uh council would need to disclose exparte communication. This is going from in the Ostein area going from Ostein commercial village
feature land use to Ostein transitional residential feature land use and the resoning is from Ostein commercial village to Ostein transitional residential-1 zoning classification. This one one acre
parcel 200 Longwood Drive. There is uh an existing single family residence that was constructed in 1997. So the purpose of this these two applications is to make the property conforming with uh zoning and
comprehensive plan regulations. So the Ostein local plan which was approved in 2008 really identified this particular area starting at Longwood Drive and going north as a mixeduse commercial village. As you can see from the aerial
map, there's still quite a lot of vacant land. Um everything south of Longwood Drive is uh transitional residential and the majority of the properties are developed with single family residences as is this property.
So you can see the property outlined in black here. Um again it's got the Ostein commercial village to the north of Longwood. So, this is really kind of um this one property is going to take on the uh regulations of the uh all the
properties that are to the south of it. And you see the same thing with the proposed zoning map. So, again, the Ostein commercial village um is for mixeduse development. It's got a minimum density of eight and that's really what uh trips up some of the
approvals or the the ability to have single family residences here even though they were in existence. Um they were basically created to be nonconforming uses. Um this is something that was negotiated between Valuchia County and the city of Deltona. So
approval of the transitional residential will allow uh gets rid of that minimum density and allows for single family residences. There was public hearing on June 8th with the planning commission. There was no public participation and the PLDRC
voted unanimously for approval. And I will say that the uh both applications were sent to the city of Deltona staff and they had no objections. >> Okay. Thank you, uh, Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. I didn't have any exparte. Uh let's let me let me deal
with that real quick since seven is uh if we pass seven uh we have to pass eight. Eight is a quasi judicial hearing. Has any council member had any exparte they need to declare? To our students in the blue shirts out
there. Do you know what expparte is? So you've learned it. No, it's communication with anybody involved in this. So that for full dis full full disclosure u points I think there's a lot of people in the public that don't know. Go ahead Councilman Robbins. Thank
you chairman. I just uh want to be clear. Uh we didn't have any um um negatives from the the community. Correct. >> Correct. There was no public participation. Due public uh notice requirements were met. We did not receive any emails and no one came to
the public hearing. >> Correct. Neither did I. Um, and this is a down zone, correct? >> It is. Yes. >> Okay. Motion to approve. >> We have a motion to approve. Uh, item seven by Councilman Robbins. Second was
by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any other questions? Any comments? All in favor say I. >> I. >> And uh any against? Motion is approved. Six to zero. Uh, so item eight. Can I
get a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> Motion to approve by Councilman Robbins, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Questions, comments? All in favor say I. >> I.
>> Anyone? Disapprove. Item eight is passed six to zero. Thank you very much. And you're staying right there for item 9, resolution 2026, uh double xx resoning of 5,249
square ft from light industrial to urban single family residential. >> All right. Um so item nine uh say from light industrial to the R5 zoning classification at 13631
Granada Avenue. address of Daytona Beach, but it's uh right next to Holly Hill. There is a single family residence. It's very similar to the last case that we just looked at that doesn't the single family home does not match the zoning
requirements that it's within. So, here's a a location in an aerial map. This is along um Nova Road or backs up to Nova Road, which is of course a commercial area that also has some light manufacturing and industrial uses.
This property, it's it's really kind of a remnant of what should have been a strict development of uh light industrial. There's a couple of other um single family homes within that area as well. So the light industrial requires a
minimum lot size acre of uh one. So that means that the properties not only is the use non-conforming but the size of the property is non-conforming. Single family residences are not permitted under the R5 zoning. Um the lot size as well as the use would be allowable.
Again we had no public participation. Due public notice was met. Uh there was no emails in opposition and again this is quasi judicial so we can just disclose exparte. >> Does any council member have any communications they'd like to declare?
>> None. >> Is the owner of the property here? >> They are. Yes. >> Thank you for being here. Um >> we have we're glad that you want to stay and get in compliance. Um, we have a
motion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Is there a second? We have a second. Scared you for a second, didn't it? [laughter] Hansen. Any uh questions for Carol, for the attorneys, for the owner? Any
comments? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And you are approved. Six to zero. Congratulations. Good work. >> Thank you. >> Item 10 is the fee schedule annual CP
CPI adjustment policy. Ryan Osowski, chief financial officer. Good morning, council. Uh just as a matter of uh background, uh there are a lot of fees that we already have CPI adjustments for. Um
this policy is to really catch the remaining fees that we don't have some sort of CPI adjustment for. Uh but we did not propose the resolution to be like any future fee. It is a list of the fees that we've that we've identified so
you can see exactly what we're talking about when we talk about the catchall. Um but that was the main intent. This is meant to keep whole dollar increments so that when you have something like admission to the marine science center uh when CPI catches up to increase the
admission uh a dollar at that point we would apply it. Uh that way you don't have a bunch of uh change issues that you have to work through uh for cash. Um what you see on your screen is the fees that are already outside of this policy. You you've had this in material ahead of
time, so I won't read them, but a lot of the fees, especially the high dollar ones, were already adjusting automatically. uh the applicable fee highlights. We're talking about uh what this resolution would cover is applying a CPI adjustment to to the fees that you see on this
slide and the next slide. Um I won't cover each one unless you have any particular questions, but this is really a summary of that nearly or somewhere around 100page schedule because there's a lot of details in that schedule like the on fire rescue with this fire
prevention permit. It's probably seven pages of that schedule of the different types of fire prevention permits. They're all the same amount, but they all have like these subclassifications. Uh, with that, I'll take any questions. >> Questions. Council Councilman Robbins,
>> which uh parks and wreck fees um are we looking at? >> Uh camping, Strickland range passes, summer camp, pavilions, and ball fields. whatever fees that are currently in place. This this is not to do some sort of adjustment to market value or
anything. This is just to start applying CPI to our existing fees. How about the junior lifeguard fee? >> That is under beach safety and that is a fee that would be covered by this currently unless you want to remove
that. We can we can remove certain fees if you'd like to do that. >> I'll stay up there for some comments. Um, chairman. >> Okay. Councilman Santiago, >> I was kind of going along the same lines as Danny. Um, and then I know you did
what we directed you all to do on making sure the fees tie into CPI. So, um, so we don't have those big fees like Troy frequently reminds us of. Um, at the same time I don't know if I individual would want
to apply them to everything and I don't have an answer for you other than that. Thank you. >> Any other comments or questions? I think >> comments chairman. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of
council feeling the same way. Um I I know that incrementally there's some things that we want to bring up, but I'm I'm seeing some of this thing some of these I feel is it's kind of nickel and
dimming everybody. Um, I get the position of some where some of these we need to we need to uh raise occasionally, but um a part of me um
I I know we have some challenges here in the future and and the perception doesn't look good with this to be quite honest. you know, um we're supposed to be kind of cutting some of this stuff and like I said, some of this is nickel and diamond in my opinion and
um I don't know if I can support uh support it as presented. >> Councilman Kent, >> thank you, Chairman. Um [clears throat] yeah, no one likes to be nickeled and dime, but you know what they dislike more than that? Being quartered, half dollarred, and
dollared. And that's what's going to happen. So, we either do these small incremental increases that we've talked about as a group or we don't. I'm not going to say play politics. I'm not going to go down that road, but I wasn't going to talk on this because just voting yes for it
means I'm in agreement with it, which I am in agreement with it. These these aren't outrageous. They're not inappropriate. They're extremely appropriate. They are in fact they are extremely appropriate. And if you don't charge people
for the things they're utilizing, all the other taxpayers that don't do it, they're the ones paying for it. So, at what point do you say, "Hey, small incremental nickel and dime is okay because I don't want to hit anybody over the head with a club and make them have to pay huge amounts because we didn't do
it for 5, 10, 20 years." Thanks, Chairman. >> Thank you, uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair Troy. one thing you said um I have to agree you know well no I mean basically the whole thing you just said but um you know you said it a
long time ago about large impact fees and and large things that coming up and and you hear now on the news in light of things that are happening in possibly in November um where certain municipalities are talking about implemention
implementation of fees um and that's going to hurt them um and I'm not for that. Um but however, these are existing fees that have to go with the times. So, um I am in agreement with this.
>> U county manager George Rectal. >> Yeah. [clears throat] I just wanted to uh ask Ryan off the top of your head, what's CPI, uh percentage this year? >> We have it defined in the resolution as to what point in time we'll do CPI
adjustments. CPI is actually a a number that gets measured every month by the Bureau of Labor Statistics and depending on which month you pick and doing that percentage change, it's roughly around 3% right now. >> Right. So, I know we mentioned about what's coming
in the future possibly and all that, but this is something I know we've talked about uh for some time and I would be recommending this uh and have recommended this u irregardless of what's going on. All we're trying to do here is just keep up with inflation and
and and and as Councilman uh Kent said, instead of the big jumps, uh I think uh PE people that I've talked to anyway prefer the uh more uh the smaller jumps over time. So that's
really what we're trying. >> I would add that we we've been working on this for a little while. Um this is not something that is a response to property tax reform. But that being said, if if property tax reform does pass, um CPI might not be enough, you
know, you're looking at either service level reductions or much different type fee increases. That's not what we're talking about here today. What we're talking about is just scaling to keep up with inflation, >> right? >> Well, th this council has given you directions repeatedly to have
incremental increases in fees. What what's happening here? These are tiny increases. We're not creating any new fees. These are existing user fees. Some paid by uh cities, some paid by
individuals. Um it's not to replace property tax. This is something that that has to be done, as you said, to keep up with inflation, keep up with rising costs. So, um I'm in in favor of it. Nobody likes fee increases, but I
like to keep them really small. And and again, the important thing to me is that we're not creating any new fees. Is these are existing fees that we're going to bump up uh just a little bit. So, uh any other comments, questions? Is there
a motion to approve or disotion to approve by Vice Chair Reinhardt? Second. >> Second. Uh second by Councilman Troy Kent. If there's no other comments or questions, uh call for the vote. All in
favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> I. >> Okay. I believe the uh the opposed was uh Santiago and uh Danny Robbins.
So the motion passes 4 to two. All right. Item 11, budget resolution, contract with Hendricks Brothers Construction Company for fire station 22 in Oakill. Motion to approve. >> Is it just you? Don't say a word.
Okay. The motion I believe was by Councilman Robbins and the second was by who made the second? Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Um
this is for improvements to fire station 22 and Oakill which is needed. Fire stations are expensive. Don't say a word. And uh um any comments, questions? All in favor
say I. Any opposed? And resolution passes six to zero. Item 12, appointment to the Florida Association of Counties
Board of Directors for District 8. And I'll ask the the council who is interested. Uh, David Santiago, you were uh my appointment last year. I got a letter from fact that said you weren't reelected. I don't I didn't know they
reelected it, but it was strictly an appointment from here. So, >> yeah. No, >> what do you know about that? >> I I don't know anything about that. Um, but yes, uh, I'd be considering to continue to serve. So, okay. >> My schedule has has changed drastically, my daily schedule. So,
>> you'll continue, you said? Yep. Great. I'll make the motion for David Santiago. >> Okay, we have a motion to approve David Santiago to be a representative to the fact uh board of directors. Uh motion by Troy Kent, second by Vice
Chair Reinhardt. Any uh questions, comments? All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? And you are reappointed six to zero. Uh item 13
is uh an appointment of a consumer representative uh to the contractor licensing and construction appeals. We need three nominations, one from chair, one from the atlarge, and one from district three
uh member. But there's only one applicant, and he's an excellent applicant, Craig Bruce. So, uh, would anybody, any of the three of you, uh, uh, Jake? >> Motion to approve Craig Bruce. >> Okay.
>> Second. >> Have a motion to approve, uh, Craig Bruce, by Jake Johansson, and the second was by Councilman Santiago. All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? And he is approved. 6 to Z.
Uh, wow. 11:22. Item 14, uh, resolution, uh, one appointment to the Valuchia County Industrial Development Authority. And Chrissa, any member can make this nomination.
>> Correct. >> And you do have two applicants, Miss Kieran Wrath, who's the incumbent, and Reginald Ray. >> Okay. Do it. We have two applicants. Is there uh
Councilman Robbins? Chairman, I see uh employment uh information. I see commercial banking. What's the second? Um I'm just trying to see the background of Ronald Ry. Where is that? Regginal
Reigns. Regginal >> Chris. Do we have >> Mr. Mr. reigns were he his occupation is rental retail and it says he works at Walgreens >> chairman I don't I don't remember this coming up for for a long time if if ever
during our tenure here is it typical council I'll speak freely for a second that kind of fit fits kind of what the board is are we looking for somebody that is involved in industrial ustrial or commercial operations or are we going to
just put anybody on this board? With no offense to to the applicants, I'm just we kind of want people that are qualif uh should say qualified or or have a background or an understanding in the board. I don't know. That's just a thought.
>> Yeah, >> maybe we should hold off for I don't know. >> I understand the Yeah, it was advertised. We got two applicants. Uh Karen Wrath is a uh banker as you said, probably has
uh pretty close experience for uh industrial development authority. This is a 4-year term, so it doesn't come to us often. >> The last time it came, um it looks like
it was in 2024 or 2025. interest. >> Okay. >> And when chairman or staff, do we know when this board is really used or where do they where do they >> they issue your industrial bonds for so they'll come before you for bond
issuance and stuff for >> Okay, I'll go with the banker. >> Okay. So that motion >> making a motion for Karen Wrath. uh made by Councilman Robbins and she is seconded uh by Vice Chair
Reinhardt. Karen Wrath. Any questions, discussion? All in favor of reappointing Karen Wrath, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? She is nominated and appointed uh
unanimously six to zero. Item 15 is another appointment to the code enforcement board. Uh it's chair atlarge and district 2 Matt Reinhardt appointments. Unfortunately, we only
have how many nominees? >> Four um five. >> So we have enough for all all three of us. I'll make the nomination for I'll go with Regginal Rain since he was
on the last one. I'll give him this appointment. Retail. >> Okay. Matt nominates Regginal Reigns. Is there a second for Reginal Reigns? We'll Let's see if we can get all these
together. Um, second was by Danny Robbins and trying to get back to the full list. Okay. I would nominate Tad Olmstead, general contractor, nominated by Brower, seconded by
Reinhardt, and uh we need one or >> Yes, sir. It's as me. Um, I'd like to preface my uh my appointment with um
first of all, I'd like to appoint Don Don Nem and and there's there's a little bit of discussion I've [clears throat] had with him. He did miss uh three meetings last year. He had a lot of conflicts.
Um uh and and I'd like to appoint him with the understanding that uh any failure in his part to to be part of the code enforcement board and that be a priority uh I I will uh
make a decision to pull him and pick somebody else if it doesn't work. Um but his uh three missing meetings uh um were due to a a a competition he had with
another board that's been deconlicted. So I'd like to get him back on the board >> and he you feel secure he's given you assurances that he'll this is one of the busiest boards in the county. I want you to know that I will be watching it and if it if it doesn't work out uh I will
pull him and and pull somebody else uh in at that point. >> He wasn't on our list of applicants but he's the current uh >> yes he's in a supplemental >> and you have clean hands everything that you needed for him. Okay. So Jake
Johansson nominates uh uh Don I just need him. Is there a second for Don? Second was by Vice Chair Reinhardt.
Okay, so we have uh uh three. Come on. Three appointments or nominations. Uh, Reginal Reigns, uh, Tad Olmstead and Don Nem. Any
questions? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And they their nominations are confirmed. Six to zero. And believe it or not, that is the entire agenda at 11:29.
Let it be written. We will uh we do have some public participation. And first is John Nicholson. Please tell us what area of the county that you're from.
Beachside, Daytona. >> Absolutely. Uh, couple of things. One, um, Jake, I haven't heard age used like that since Ronald Reagan. Um, but I don't think
we're we need to pull the uh rollers out from underneath the chairs. Uh, secondly, uh, David, I read the article in the paper with regards to the Jones Act. I'm glad that someone from the county as you know I grew up in my uh Miami but I was born in New York. New
York I think has the largest Puerto Rican uh entity in the United States and Miami is second. Uh my neighbor in Miami was Puerto Rican and constantly had to buy things in Miami and bring them to Puerto Rico because it was cheaper. This
act absolutely needs to be gone. It's outdated and it costs money and there should not be anything that we do to cause harm to American citizens and this does that. So hopefully David you'll continue. Uh third data centers we
talked about it. I'm not a big fan of moratoriums. Uh I'm absolutely a huge fan of knowledge. Uh I know basically nothing about a data center. I can turn my phone on. I can turn my phone off. And that's about it. I don't
know what a computer does and I don't care. I don't know the internet and I don't care. But it's all absolutely necessary. Data centers are necessary. The question is do we have the knowledge to know whether they fit into the
county? All right. Uh someone I won't mention any name Mr. Kent came up with the idea concept that when I read this the fuel tanks that I thought was these little tiny things. All right. And they turned out to be huge and absolutely
inappropriate for the location. I don't know anything about these. These can be absolutely huge and inappropriate for our county. But I don't know that from what I've been able to ascertain the amount of uh water that is needed. we don't have to worry about because
we're throwing it in the uh Halifax every day. So, they need like three million gallons a day and we're throwing in the Halifax 8 million a day. So, we've got more than enough. Size-wise, they go from a container to huge, you
know. So, they would fit any almost anywhere depending on the size. The last thing that I don't know is the sound, the humming. I know overhead uh lines many people complain about overhead huge massive lines for electric solar power
and light they hum illnesses blah blah blah blah I don't know that we need to find that out but I don't know what we need a a moratorum we can do that because there's nobody knocking down our doors to put a a data center on the beach side that I know of
so um all these things are important but I absolutely encourage you tell Tell us what we need to know about that property tax. >> You It's coming. Uh Mike Ponyattowski. Morning council. How you doing? Mike Ponittowski Moa Farms Village. So a home
valued at 2 $200,000 5 years ago is now assessed roughly at $224,000. Trash collection fees went up in the county from $297 a year to 303 plus $6. Blush County taxes will increase about maybe $56 on average for the property
values um in increases of $10,000 in value. $56 is what I pay for my supplemental health insurance and Medicare. Schoolboard increase of 3.5% $85 uh a year. That's what I pay a month in my hearing, dental, and eye plan
supplement. Plus any increases the cities pass on to their citizens. It all adds up. estimated losses in the permitting department, about $400,000 from inadequate oversight. Who is watching the spending and who's watching the spenders? You know, 4,600 of those
missed inspections involved life safety. 29 involved um seaw walls damaged or destroyed by Hurricane Nicole. They never got their final inspections. Uh the audit that y'all did by your auditor identified control weaknesses across all stages of building inspection and
operations, including insufficient safeguards to prevent and detect conflicts of interest, thousands of expired permits without final inspection, significant revenue loss due to inconsistent fee practices, and gaps in permit documentation and system oversight. That's the statement from
your own internal auditor, Jonathan Edwards. EMS had pay discrepancies earlier this year. Actually, from May 2023 to January of 2026, 213 employees were underpaid, while 55 were overpaid. Four by over $10,000, one by over $60,000. The school board incorrectly
paid 307 transportation workers, among others, with overpayments between $2 and $500. In a year when our elected officials should be riding tight reigns on budgets and spending, uh we see that there is a lot of outofc control spending, things that you may not be aware of, but things
that are happening. We have concrete proof and it's the money that we're paying in our tax dollars incrementally. They all add up. They all add up. They come out of our paychecks. They come out of our fixed incomes. We're paying to the government. We don't have a choice of what we pay to the government. We just have a choice of what we spend on
our own selves. But when in the time of property tax reform that may be happening in November, regardless of whether it happens or not, you, the staff, the elected officials should be looking for ways to cut and save us money. Roll back is not enough. Flat is
not enough. The people need a break. They want cuts in their in the spending because when you add it up, it's money out of our checkbooks on a yearly basis and we have less to spend on home life and our own prosperity and more to spend
on the government. So, please do your due diligence, work with the people to reduce their taxes and reduce spending. But in any event, watch the spending, find out where it's going, why we're having these inconsistencies and these problems, because we need help. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh Wendy Anderson. [clears throat] >> Good morning, Wendy Anderson, District 1. And uh yeah, good job on keeping the the meeting to under three hours this morning. Um I wanted to follow up on Dr. Dick McCormick's um remarks earlier at the beginning of the meeting when he
gave you um a lot of information about AI data centers and and Mr. Nicholson may not have done as much research as Dr. McCormack has um but but the you know the information is out there. There is a reason that AI data centers are in the national news as something that that
cities and and counties are currently looking at banning. Um, the state government has for a brief moment given cities and counties the freedom and the opportunity to make their own decisions about this. And I think that you all um should seize that opportunity before
that before it goes away. The state government doesn't very often, you know, give us more control. They're usually taking it away. Um, you know, Mr. Santiago, I really appreciate your idea of, you know, of proposing a six-month moratorum. Um, m Dr. McCormack earlier
suggested an 18-month moratorum. You know, I'm just going to come right out and say it. I'm all for a ban and a ban right now. Do it now because we do know the environmental impacts of these. We don't need to do our own research. The research has been done. We do know the
environmental impact of these. We know the impact on our utility rates. We know the impact on our water supplies, on wildlife, the physical area footprint of these. um we do not want these in our county. We do not need them in our county. We do not need these jobs. And
so I would I would urge all of you to just jump straight ahead to banning them and you know, let some other counties in the state figure it out. Let other states in the nation figure it out, but we don't need them or want them here. And I just want to be on the record saying that. Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments. And that concludes the uh public participation for this meeting. Uh we'll move to uh closing comments. Uh County Manager George Rectal. >> The only thing I have is a quick
clarification. It didn't come up in the item, but the uh open permits I just want to report uh that's number is significantly different now. It's like 800. So, it's gone down from in the thousands where it was to to that. And that's a statewide problem. That's not
unique to Valuchia County anyway. And uh a lot of times, you know, we it gets corrected by the fact that uh people need other permits or other work done and then that's how it's often caught. But it's a not a life safety issue as
was portrayed. And u that's all I have. Thanks. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, County Attorney Mike Dyer. >> No. >> No, sir. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh, we'll move to uh, council members and Councilman Santiago, you're
first today. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, and George, thanks for for clarifying that. And, you know, you're you all and your positions are tough right now. And, and it's more intensified since we're in the political season. And so everything that that looks or smells or even
can be construed is going to be uh as we go through this November spring, then we get back to normal in December, everybody acts normal again until the next election cycle. Um and uh thank Mr. Nichols, thank you for your comments on the Jones Act. Yes, I've been advocate
for that for a long time. I wish the county had more power other than just uh being vocal about it and as as I was in that op-ed and regarding the the uh the a data centers um and you know you're right there is a
lot of information out there and you know I'm learning more as I go along and and Mr. Nichols is right from the perspective of saying that we need these technologies all going that way. Whether we like it or not, we probably interact with data centers
several times a day, right? Um and so the purpose for the moratorum was um to give us time to really figure out what can we do legally. A lot of it is constrained by federal and state laws.
We can't do a permanent ban. Um Wendy is illegal. If we've talked to our legal department, they have researched it and we're prohibited from doing a permanent ban. It's not a permissible. So, you can just take that off the table. If we do it, then we're violating the law. Um,
but the moratorum allows us the opportunity to figure out what works here, right? And how do we guide it and send the right signal to anyone that wants to invest in that? Here, AI data centers are bigger than regular data centers. There's a there's a data center
on I4, that interesting building going towards Altoont. I didn't know it was a data center until the news pointed it out. It's a very pretty building, but it's I don't know what type it is, but it's a pretty building. I just look at it every single time. That being said though, we need to do it right. If we
don't do the moratorum and someone applies, guess what the next criticism is? You had an opportunity to do a moratorium and you didn't while you fixed it. So if we put this moratorum in place if staff when staff brings it to us it gives us the pause and sends the right signals on if you want to do one
in valuia this is how you got to do it. So um I think we're the right path and and 6 months is usually the statutory norm for doing moratoriums. If you go outside of 6 months you get into the trouble zone for being in violation of the law and taking people's rights away.
So, it's a safe space for us as a county to not uh put the county uh treasury in liability. We all talk about taxes. Come up right here talk about rate lowering taxes and stuff like that, but actions that we take that violate people's
rights cost you money, which raises our taxes. So, it's it can't go both ways. Um, and that's why sometimes the tough decisions have to be made and they're not popular, but I think the majority of the council always considers the outcomes um on how it impacts us in in
many different ways. So, that's where we're at with that. And the only other thing I I I have to our staff, Mr. Chair, is could somebody give us an updates on this Hope Street or Drive paving? I have no idea what's going on with that. And is it a county project? Is it not a county project? because
we're being thrown into this battle with the neighbors. >> And it's not a county project. I think it's a non county non-maintained road where people were uh I think citizens have gotten together and we're trying to do something. Uh >> it's an HOA thing
>> more or less. I mean, it's they still have to get a permit and work with us because it's, you know, right away dedicated to the to the county, but uh it's not maintained by the county. So at the end of the day uh uh it's really kind of a neighborhood fight amongst
those who want to do it and some of course went out and as was pointed out and went ahead and did it took some you know kind of initiative which hard to fault but unfortunately uh in a public rideway and it does affect their neighbors so uh they have to come back
or they are I think Tad's coming in uh they'll have to work and get a permit for the popper or drainage and stuff. Maybe he does have to say something this time. >> Yeah. So, I'm guessing that they would have to normally in the normal circumstances submit engineering plans and things like that for us to review.
Has that happened? >> For the initial southern portion that was paved without the county's uh uh information or a permit from us. We don't require uh a permit for constructing of a road except for the aspect of storm water. That's uh that's
what's needed. They had paved the portion in front of the six lots to the south as uh as Miss Mangali showed and then another group wanted to go ahead and start paving the four lots just to the north of that. That's when it came to our attention. She brought it to our attention that uh that was being done.
We notified them that they needed a storm water permit. We also realized at that point that they had paved the section to the south and so we said that needs a permit as well or it needs to be ripped out. uh they can allow we allowed them to go ahead and mix the two of them
together and get a retroactive permit for the original and provide the storm water. It's necessary for the whole thing. >> So the only approval they need from us, correct me if I'm wrong, is the storm water aspect of this. Correct. We don't say you can put a road there or not. >> Correct. It's not our rideway as as
Georgia mentioned. Uh this is uh private rideway. uh it was initially platted and it said county rideway and then that was corrected with a later plat and there's some confusion over that aspect of it but our legal department has clearly uh
reviewed the documents and issued a straightforward opinion makes it very clear that is not the county's right away. So therefore, we don't issue a use permit or anything along those lines, but uh any amount of pavement over uh thousand square feet requires a permit for storm water purposes.
>> And we're enforcing the requirement for the storm water permit. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm done. >> Uh Councilman uh Jake Johansson. >> Thank you very much, Chairman. I uh it's interesting to me has been here a while.
Well, I haven't seen that camera turn on. I'm interested to see what's coming. Um, we >> You're on. >> Wait, they're filming now. >> Oh, there you go. That's That's why I wanted it. Perfect. Um, uh, I I I had a
very um a very nice text from Representative Mills today uh that that may give us some great news about our our beach phase feasibility study. I'm going to spend some time with him tomorrow. Um,
and and I'll I'll see what what comes of that good news and and and uh talk with Jessica and George a little bit later on. And uh uh if uh if things work out well, it looks like we're moving in the right direction for the beach
feasibility study. Uh secondly, um regarding the the data centers, I I think we're I think we're making some headway on what we want to do here. But um I I caution that that when speak when
people speak, including us up here, um uh the term we is is very relative, right? Uh the we I hang out with is not the we that some other people hang out with. So I'm I'm very cautious when I when I say
we don't want or we want. Um I I work with chambers of commerce and and they are pro business, they are pro development, they are pro economic development. Um uh I also spend some time with people that are very uh
environmentally minded and they are not prodevelopment and they are not pro economic development. They want things the way they are. So, it depends on where I'm sitting and what venue I'm at, uh, who we is. So, uh, our job here on
council is is to decide what's in the best interest in the county based on everything we've heard from all the we uh, and make a decision that that that benefits the county as a whole based on
our wisdom, our knowledge, our history, and and the public's input. Uh, not just the vocal minority, not the vocal majority. Um but but everybody uh so realize that that we hear you, we
listen. Uh um but but what you say is based on what you know and uh I'm not saying we know more. Um um but we do our best here to make a decision that that benefits uh the the the what's in the
best interest of the council. Um, and we had a conversation during the audit about about permitting and and where we sit with permitting. Yet, during public comment, you heard a
lady up here with an autistic child that wanted some latitude and permitting. And it and it was a very touching story, right? She wanted help with her autistic child and and
Folks like us are like, "God, we'd love to help, but our rules say we can't help you." Uh, so so what's a building inspector to do? What's what's a permitting person to
do? uh we do have roles but but one of the things that I hate about government is it's so easy for us to open up the page in a book and say nope can't do that yep you can do that when the right
thing to do is to try to get somebody like we've all talked about up here to get to yes how can we help this person um uh they definitely have a need that our hearts go out to them. Uh, our rules
say probably not, but let's find a way to get them to Yes. And and that's what that's kind of what we've been trying to do up here. And I'd like to continue to do that and not tie the hands of the people that work for George and Suzanne
and and uh prevent them from doing what's right. Um, I've always said that that if follow the rules and if the rules are wrong, let's change the rules. Uh, so, uh, you've seen us doing that
throughout the last 9 to 12 months, if not a little bit longer, and I'd like to continue doing that for the length of my stay here. That's all I have. So, thank you. >> Wow. Jake council, can I get an amen to what Jake just said? Thank you. Um,
Uh, Troy Kent. >> Uh, thank you, chairman. Uh, I just have one item um for this afternoon. George, I I happen to agree with Keith Chester that 20 years is not legacy >> in order for us to change that because I
mean I I would be more comfortable with 30 years at a minimum. Uh, is that something that has to come back before this council? >> I heard Mike Shaky said yes. Yeah. >> Okay. So, um, >> council, I'm going to make a motion that we have the
that piece come back to us about what legacy is. I don't think 20 years is long enough. >> Second. >> Thank you very much. >> Is that the only part? Just the uh the years the the dollar amount? >> No, no, no. The dollar amount as well. I'm okay talking about the whole thing.
>> Good. >> Is a secondary okay with that? have a perfect we have a motion uh by Councilman Kent, a second by Vice Chair Reinhardt to bring that back for discussion. Uh any questions on that comments? All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? And you your motion passes six to zero. >> Great. And uh I said I had one item and that was it. So thank you chairman. >> Okay. Uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. Charlie, I'm going to throw it right
back at you real quick. I read somewhere this week, Orman Beach earned the 2026 Main Street America accreditation this year. It's one out of 838 nationally recognized. So kudos to Orman Beach. So I had to throw that your way.
I wrote that down. And then uh there was an incident I read about also um for our beach safety. Two of our lifeguards saved a child's life, brought him back, which I thought um was phenomenal. and I don't think they get enough recognition.
So, kudos to them. So, well done. Uh I saw the TV interview. They did a phenomenal job in the interview, too. Do a lot better than I do. >> So, and then lastly, uh Ray, can I bug you for a minute? Sure, I can. You like that?
>> I'm going to bug you, too. So, when he's done, just stay on the front row. >> So, going with what Mr. Joe Hansen said, "How do we get to Yes. I am absolutely positive that you had the opportunity to talk to that young lady in the back about her situation?"
>> Yes, we do. >> Could you fill fill me in on that on what we can do to help her? >> Well, I was here or >> I know Carol spoke. I didn't >> Oh, Carol did. I'm sorry. Okay. >> I think Katie is still here.
>> Katie is in the back. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, so, uh, Paul Sor, senior assistant county attorney. So, the request is couched as an ADA, um, Fair Housing Act accommodation. Um, so, but the request doesn't fit those reasonable
accommodations. One, we're not providing a housing service. We're not providing a service. This is about construction. So, it doesn't fall under that automatic, you know, reasonable accommodation, fair housing act accommodation in term because she's requesting a waiver of fees. uh council,
>> which we've done waiver of fees before. >> Fees are completely waved. >> I figured you were gonna say that. That's where I'm going next. >> So, you can you can wave the fees. The the thing you you um can't wave is the advertising costs because that's paid to the news journal and that's part of >> you have to do that.
>> Right. So, you can wave the >> So, we can wave the other fees in in ex in exception of the advertising fees. >> Yes. >> So, if I made that motion, which I'm doing right now, >> perfectly fine. to based on her situation. I mean,
>> yes. Hi, Carolyn McFarland again. Um, Paul, is that >> we verified that information first before we do that? I guess >> um she has submitted paperwork. >> She has. Okay. So, there >> I'll take stick with that motion. >> Staff has no objection to that. >> Would that include >> Wait all fees, inspection fees,
reinspection fees >> with exception of the advertising fees. >> Okay. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt makes a motion to wave all fees other than the advertising fees uh for this person and
project and the second was by uh Councilman Santiago. Any other uh questions? You're up for something else. >> Um something else. >> Uh all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed?
I hope that helps, Katie. That was the quickest action I've I've seen. So, thank you for coming in and making that appeal. So, >> and she waited the whole day to hold it >> successfully. >> She waited the whole day to to see if we were going to bring that up. >> Maybe the news journal could donate.
>> Please let us know how it how it goes, how your situation is. I know it's personal business, but >> that's all I had. Chair, thank you. >> Okay, >> Mr. Chair, I just wanted to jump on something Matt was saying, and thank you for the additional time. Troy, I seen
this morning you were talking about the beach. Um, Matt, I seen this morning California had the World Dog Surfing Championship and I thought that was here. What What is going on? >> Listen, I all I can tell you is this. All right. If California wants to bring
some, they can go ahead and bring some to the East Coast because next year's dog surfing contest with the triad of Daytona Dog Beach, the Hang Eight Dog Surfing Group, and the county of Valuchia. Uh, I have it under good authority that Nette McKill Petrella
will be before us in the near future and uh, she's going to be doing a presentation and I don't want you to worry about California. If you would have seen if you would have seen what I saw on the beach here uh, six weeks ago, >> you wouldn't be worried either. So, don't worry, David. We We've got this.
>> All right. They made national news, so you got to step up your game a little bit. That's a challenge. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Uh, Councilman Robbins. Okay, I'll see if I can wrap it up before noon. Um, you took care of the
first thing. Thank you for that. U for Katie. Uh, second one, Rey, I just had a I I think I heard your answer to this. On the Hope Street that Rebecca brought in, the beginning of the street,
the south end was paved without a permit. What? And so what h No, that's not the wrong You got the wrong guy. >> Yeah, it's Tad. >> Tad said that. But >> yeah, Tad Tad would be also the permitting person out on the rideway. Ray is on private property.
>> All right. C Can we have we gotten Rebecca all the information she needs uh on how it's supposed to proceed? And if not, I'd be glad to meet with you and her and maybe somebody from legal.
We can't give her legal advice, but we can tell her what the county's supposed to do. >> Sorry, >> we heard part of the question. So, >> uh I believe that you said on Hope Street that the beginning the >> the southern southern end of the street
was paved without a permit. So, what happened with and they didn't have to pick it up. They just brought storm water up to code. Well, we are requiring them to go ahead and upgrade the system and show what they're doing for their so when they went out there and did it. Uh
the uh road had some roadside swailes in it uh similar to what you'd see for most rural road sections. Uh not very well defined, but they were there. Uh and they just paved the existing section that they had. Uh it used to be uh either dirt or millings, I don't know
exactly before the paving occurred. Uh so as a part of the permit to put in the asphalt in front of the four homes to the north of that, we have them going ahead surveying that area, working with those property owners and incorporating the storm water system for the whole
section into uh one consistent system is what we have them doing. So >> since it's a it's a private road, right? >> Correct. >> Does everybody on the road have to agree? Uh no, we uh the way we've handled it is uh the property owners the
road sits on the property owner's property for those southern portion for the southern section is already paved. It's a little bit different than the uh portion that Mr. Mang Mrs. Mangalia lives on where the road is actually in a defined rideway. It's by easement on that southern section. So each of those
individual property owners is ultimately responsible and if uh they don't rectify the situation then code enforcement would pursue all six of them to get it rectified. >> Good. You know the public listening in and maybe even the council here might wonder well why wouldn't somebody want
their road paved and and that is the problem is that there I've heard from numerous residents on that road that it's causing flooding. It's a it's a wet area anyway. that's across the street from uh wetlands.
Um so I'm glad to hear that that's being enforced. It it needs to be. Um I'll talk to Rebecca again and perhaps talk to you and just because it's this has been going on for a long time, >> right? And we've been in consistent contact with Mr. Mongali every time she
>> I know Ben has as well or his staff. >> Sorry. That's why I don't speak. >> All right. I don't want to hear anymore from Thank you for your help. I appreciate it. >> Tad, we're going to call you back in a minute because you're getting the opportunity to talk. So, >> yeah. Tad. Tad or Ray, either one. I
don't know who who the right the person that came in this morning about the AfricanAmerican cemetery. That's probably the city of Dayton or Dand, correct? >> No. Uh, not necessarily. Uh, there is a list. I don't know. She used the term
Union Cemetery. I'm not sure that's located. Um, so go ahead if you know. >> Yes. So, so that's um in western DNA. So, it's in the unincorporated area. Um, >> is that the one on Uklid?
>> Yes, it's on. >> Oh, as a matter of fact, I go that way to work and I saw the uh Felia County Corrections uh on that site this morning with a trailer and uh several people working in that uh in that uh cemetery.
So, Okay. So, I'll confirm uh where the issue was, but they were there working today. >> If I could share because I remember that cemetery coach Bailey, his crew has been doing that. >> That's correct. >> That cemetery for a long time >> a level of service. Uh you know,
that cemetery had there is some issues with ownership and stuff on that. Uh we I think about 26 cemeteries countywide. >> They're abandoned. They're becomes kind of wards of the county. uh there's a process. Um it's just
something that we we we pick up. But at the end of the day, uh you know, we we worked we've tried to work using our inmate uh labor out there. They do a good job, but uh it is
in a challenging situation. There's a lot of old trees and things in there. Uh again, they do the basic mowing, weed eating, and that type of thing. Uh But obviously it's not to the same level of a privately uh um maintained and you
know much higher level of service than what we could provide with what we have. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Uh Councilman Kent, >> just on this issue, Chairman, and and I want everyone to know I knew I know nothing about this situation in the
particulars. I heard the people come before us today. But I'll I'll just caution everyone that years ago in the city of Orman Beach, there's a cemetery near my home called Hillside Cemetery. Lot of wonderful people from our community are are laid to rest there.
And we had a group come to uh me as an elected official of War Beach years ago and say, "Ah, you know, um we'd like for the city to take it over, aka the money that they had that they're supposed to have in perpetuity to take care of the cemetery, someone wasn't handling the
money correctly, and then they want the government to come in and take care of this in perpetuity and now it becomes a taxpayerf funed problem." I'm not saying that is I'm going to repeat I'm not saying that's what this situation is. I know nothing about it. I
need to be briefed on it, George, but I'm not for that. I'm not for putting that on the taxpayers's backs whenever maybe somebody didn't do what they were supposed to do with the finances. Thanks. >> Thank you, Matt. >> Yeah, I did. One more thing with respect
to that that cemetery is true. Um, we've been doing that particular cemetery for years and that was brought up I think I wouldn't even say it was Joyce Cusack that brought it up if I'm not mistaken. Um, and uh cuz I remember as a lieutenant at the jail when I oversaw
those crews, they were going out to that particular that particular site. the individuals from the community that brought it forth that brought this to our attention years ago. Um we told them we're going to give you just the basic service because some of the trees that need to be cut and things of that nature. You can't put the inmates at
risk like that. You can't. >> So um but nonetheless, if they wanted to do that level, we told them it may need a a community type of event that they themselves take care of. We'll take care of the basic. >> They had need to take care of the rest. and this has been explained to them
years ago >> because of the the safety issues with with the inmates. So, I just want to put that out there. But, thank you for bringing that up, Troy. >> Often a church or someone's involved and sometimes they change leadership or something they may not be aware, but it
just so happened, like I say, I I I just happened to be go by there today and saw our trailer uh in there. And so, I know crews were actually in there today working. So very timely, but certainly serendipitous.
>> Okay. Thank you. Good information. Um uh it's on it's afternoon. Uh I'll try and be real quick with the last two things. We've talked about the uh the data centers. You want data centers. Nobody else in the room wants them.
We've got a moratorum. David's right. And election time. There's there's a lot of opinions. There's I forget exactly what he said. Sometimes it's it's crazy season or silly season. Um that that's
worries me about a moratorum for 6 months which really just takes us past election season. I would like it done now, but I agree with with uh Wendy that I would prefer a ban. I disagree that it's not that it's against the law in
Florida. I'm talking with the county attorney about it about it. He It's It would be hard. I think what I've heard from you so far, Mike, is that it's the difference is can you do it countywide or just uninccorporated county, but that will come up. I don't want to get into
debate now, but it will come up when we talk about the uh moratorum on uh for data centers. I believe that it can be done um according to our environmental 202.4 for because we're a wet county and I don't want to use up all all of our uh
water and pollute the water that we have left um to cool a data center. So, I'll continue to talk with the county attorney about that, but I'm going to invoke the Jake principle. Let's how do we get to yes? Um it's it's hard, but we
can do it and and you'll be able to disagree with it and and give your reasons as of the council and the public will. The the last thing uh that did you want to speak on that? >> Yes, Mr. Chairman, if I may only because I know you mentioned that it is legal and not legal. I want to make sure
because then that that puts out a state of confusion out there. I'd like to ask now our council tell us is it illegal for us to implement a total ban on AI data centers or data centers in Blush County and why or why not?
>> Um the short answer is it depends. Um thank you >> which is not an answer anyone wants to hear. Um the uh moratorum uh in concept is a timeout. It gives you
time to give direction to us on what how you want to deal with an issue. Um, we have, um, it's a little bit of an unusual period because we're under Senate Bill 180, which essentially has prohibited things
are more burdensome, more restrictive. The legislature last year passed a law uh that uh, sorry, I'm distracted by Al here. um passed a law that basically said local
governments you have the authority to regulate in your comp plan and land use plan large load uh AI data centers that's a very quick summary of that um well that's authority local governments
already had right u so there's been uh this been a big topic of discussion with other counties over the last few months that I've taken part in. Um, and you see some governments, uh, of at least 20
counties by my account, um, that have begun taking steps in some way to change regulations on data centers, many of which have enacted a moratoria during that period of time to allow uh,
the elected officials and staff to work through that issue. Um so that is um it's not as uh clean as you know I would like to see it but I see the argument
that exists that uh doing so in some way even if it's more burdensome or restrictive does not violate Senate Bill 180. When I say that what do I mean? Well, I wish Senate Bill 180 or the new AI data center bill
addressed each other >> and spoke to that issue. They they did not. But um I think a reasonable inference would allow us to enact moratorum or basically not subject us to
sample 180. Um when it comes to AI data centers, um we have the Burj Harris act and so we've talked about moratoria in the past. uh there's kind of this rule of well 12 months 12 months well where does that
come from that comes from the Bertie Harris act which basically says a moratorum under uh of 12 months or less um is not a taking that's an informal term a
compensible act under BA Harris meaning you can do it anything beyond 12 months could be BJ Harris issue so a lot of times you see the advice given hey uh we know what we need to do. Let's operate within that up to 12 months
um to avoid the Bur Harris risk. Could you go beyond 12 months? Yes. Um would it be Harris risk? Yes. Um and that's really going to be fact intensive. Um
kind of a general rule on land use is well you got to allow a use to be somewhere and you got to you can restrict it in a reasonable way. Uh really avoid bands.
Um, if you wanted to talk about a ban here of some sort and bands could take different shapes and your staff's going to be here at the next meeting to discuss it because you direct us to come back with this topic next meeting. Um,
but really the only way I can we could get there would be declare it some type of nuisance. And there's a whole body law on what constitutes a nuisance. Some people may say, well, of course it's a nuisance.
Well, it's more difficult than that. If that is something you want us to go uh to research and use what's say the moratorum time to pursue that, we could um you know,
we just got to be cautious about how we go about it and do we have a defensible basis for it? I haven't seen it. Could be out there. I haven't seen a jurisdiction yet in Florida um invoke the nuisance route. Maybe it's
happened. I'll find out to research it. But most everything I've been seeing has been the moratorum route because jurisdictions are that are doing it are [clears throat] trying to get time to to figure out how to deal with the issue. >> Okay. Thanks for the the long answer and
it was it was very detailed and >> sorry. >> No, no, it was good. That's good. And and for me personally, I'm okay with pursuing the nuisance route that I think that's a interesting route to look at. Um and and thanks for clarifying that, you know, it may or may not apply to
180. I think you you leaned on it. 180 kind of sort of applies here because we're subjected to it still. Yeah. And that was kind of the general consensus early on in this debate and it's kind of evolved because you've seen a number of other cities and counties invoke decide
well we're going to do a moratorium and they're pointing to that statute. So um I think there is a basis to argue why we would have that authority to do a moratoria and not uh violate 180. Could somebody come forward and challenge what
we're doing under Senate by 180? Yes. >> So Mr. Chair, I think I know where you're going. I think we're doing it the safest route um so that we can get to make some good decisions. I think the mortorium is is the wise idea for now. >> You know, if you decided to do a moratorum regardless of the length um I
the way I would see it's a timeout. >> Yeah, >> it's time out from application to give a structure on what to do. It doesn't preclude uh a regulatory option one way the other. It gives you time to do it. >> Correct. The other route could be risky, but there may be paths so as to get there. That's what I read what you said.
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yeah, that that is what you've been saying consistently. Um, but you also just said that the moratorum we could safely do one for 12 months without I think it'll take 12 months. So, that's
where I'm leaning to start with so that we can study uh the ban. And what I really heard you say is that the ban would be hard. It it might even be um un unwise but we have to make that decision. Uh I
>> what I what I would recommend is you know if you did go in that direction give us time to >> yeah 12 months >> to put an argument together if you did a moratorum of 3 months 6 months 8 months whatever whatever the amount is it would
come back >> to maybe you extend it. So to us as staff it doesn't really matter that I think that 12 month line in the sand is relevant just to avoid a BJ Harris claim. Right. That's where that comes from. >> I say I'm sure that you could come back
with information in 3 months but I'd said 12 months because it's probably going to require uh some conversations with the state of Florida as well and that will slow it down. But anyway, we'll see. That'll come up in the next discussion. >> And I, you know, just as a side note, I
I am curious to see what's going to come out of this legislative session, too, because you're getting faced with the that issue. I'm sure your legis legislators are as well. >> It'll be interesting to see what happens with 180. Right now, it's just wait till
next year. Well, it's next year now. So, uh, Jake, if you get there, we we're going to give you the football. Get rid of 180. Write the Okay. All right. The last thing I I want
to mention, everybody probably heard uh was it last week the national discussion on TV about the um the COVID uh
uh shots and um I don't want to get into the politics of it. That's not that's not important for the discussion. I want to bring up I'm I'm going to talk with the uh county attorney about it. I haven't yet. I wanted to run it by the
council here. Um there we have somebody in our audience that suffers from uh and I'm I'm not even going to say your name because this is personal and I don't want to drag all your information up here. um she has been uh vaccine injured
and from those national hearings we all learned that there are thousands and thousands of people that have been vaccine injured. Um and the pharmaceutical companies are held harmless. There was a bill passed that something goes wrong, it's not their
fault. Um it was a national emergency. What whatever. Um I but the fact is that we have these people that are suffering that are dying that have been fired from their jobs because they're suffering and
dying. And um I believe that whatever has been done with the pharmaceutical companies um I would like to have us as a council appeal appeal to the uh governor of Florida and to our national
representatives to ask them to pursue um providing care for these people because what we've heard from our local resident who is dying of this injury um can't get local help. She has to go
out of the country, spend tens of thousands of dollars. Um there ought to be care in the US for people that were injured. We there a lot of people died from COVID. Now there's people dying from uh the vaccine that was supposed to
prevent it. Um, so, uh, County Attorney Mike Dyer, can can you bring us back information of how or Russ since you're looking at me, um, uh,
to draft a letter to appeal for, um, state and federal help to, uh, provide care for these people that have no insurance because they've been dropped. nowhere to go and so they're just dying
alone at in their homes. This county has worked hard to find and successfully to find a home uh for this person. Um but it doesn't solve all the problems. So before I ask the council, can is that
something you could could do and bring us back to us? >> Yes, sir. So, what I hear is that you want us to draft a letter for council's review asking the governor and other national representatives to >> Yes. >> uh help uh these individuals and their long-term care that council would
approve and sent >> not just abandoned. Yes, >> that's what I'm asking. >> Draft a letter for the for council. Is that >> Yes, chairman. Great. Great idea. >> That come back. >> Great idea. Yes. >> You need someone else to make the motion. You need a motion. >> Yeah, you can make a motion.
>> I'll make the motion for that. Second. >> Okay. All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? Okay. Thank you. And council would you just voted to bring it back. I'm not I'm trying not to hang you out, but this is important. And um I
thank you for uh making this so apparent to us that there is a need. And um so sounds like it feels like a little tiny effort but it's it's an effort that that we can do. So that's all I have. At
12:20, we are adjourned.