Heat. Heat. N. Here we go. Heat. Heat. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Hey, hey, hey. Hey,
hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey,
hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey,
hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 5
minutes. Hey, hey, hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Baby. Hey. Down. Everything I did Welcome to the Valuchia County Council
meeting. The meeting will begin in 2 minutes. Come on. Okay, we will call the uh June 2nd, 2025 meeting to order at 9:01. And uh we will start in just a
minute. I'll I'll ask you to uh stand if you care to for the invocation and then we'll go right into the pledge of allegiance. If you are a member of a faith group who would like to participate in invocations,
um you're you're welcome to do that. just send an email to K the letter K greenvalucia.org. This is Carissa Green over here and she will um get you all set up to do that. This morning we are
pleased to have uh Pastor uh Brad Gwartney of Stson Baptist Church. Pastor, you want to start us off and please stand if you care to? Council, it's an honor to pray with you this morning. Let's open this meeting in prayer. Father God, there's much work to
do today. So, we take a moment just to give you the honor that you deserve. God, we thank you that you're the great provider today. We ask that you provide wisdom as we do our best to honor you uh w with this meeting. God, you're the great healer and there's so many in our community that need healing today. God,
I pray and pray that you provide the comfort they need just to make it through the day. God, we know that you uh are doing incredible things in our midst. God, we pray that you'd bring our community closer together, God. That we see lives restored, families brought back together, and that the work today
will be done in a way that honors you. God, there's important things to be done. So, let us do it in a way of civility, in a way that is just ultimately honoring to you. Father God, I thank you for uh this city, this incredible community that we get to live in. And God, we pray that we'd see it uh drawn closer to you and that it'd be
just a better place to live. We love you, Lord. We give this time to you. And it's your name we pray. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America to the stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice
for all. Thank you so much. Okay, Carissa, would you call the role, please? Mr. Robbins, here. Mr. Santiago, here. Mr. Mr. Dempsey, Mr. Johansson,
Mr. Kent here, Mr. Reinhardt here, Mr. Brower here. So, we are down one. Uh, Councilman Dempsey, but we have a a quorum. So, we will start the meeting with public participation. When I call your name, please come up to the podium.
Make sure that there is a microphone uh close to your mouth so that we can hear you. when it is going out on the uh uh on the internet. You have three minutes to speak uh about anything that pertains to county business. It does not have to
be uh an item uh uh on the agenda, but we ask that it would be pertain to something the council could act on in the future. Um so, county business. And we also ask
that you would be respectful of uh everyone in the room and the people listening including children that you would be um uh respectful with your with your language. And with that we will get
started with uh Robert uh Flity. Robert Flity, Deltona. I have the deputy's body cam footage um that clearly identifies the man who killed my sister. The driver's brother arrived on scene before the
investigator and lobbyed the officers for blue shield favors. The investigator told Judge Dempsey in court he did not have evidence and declined two offers of a continuence to produce evidence.
He told the internal affairs investigation he did not have evidence. How is this possible when the evidence is his body cam footage? This is blatant misconduct or worse. I need the Valuchia County
Council to discover and share why the Valuchia County Sheriff's Office suppressed this evidence, allowing a retired police officer to be found not guilty. Thank you, David
Hill. Hello, Dave Hill, Miller Road. Uh, Miller Lake is about the same height as it was the last time I spoke to you. Miller Lake has never been this high in my lifetime. It is likely it's likely that our neighborhood will flood this year if we have a major rain
event. Are the people of Miller Lake to assume that yearly flooding will occur now? If we do flood again, does the county have a plan for Miller Road, Shady Lane, and Alice Drive? Is the county objecting objecting to any St. John's water management
permits that direct water into Miller Lake? Currently, St. John's Water Management is going to approve a permit that will direct water into Unnamed Lake, which we call Wawa Lake. Water that is moved into Wawwa Lake will move
through Royal Oaks Professional Center, St. John's Water Management Permitted System and into Miller Lake. For 7 years, Wawwa Lake drained into Miller Lake illegally. Please object to this P permit and future St. John's water
management permits that move water into Miller Lake. Has anyone witnessed Royal Oaks Professional Center 2017 permitted system during a typical thunderstorm? Within minutes, the weir is bypassed and
additional water is flowing over the wear. The three storm drains on Tmont Drive are overwhelmed and water flows west on Tmont Drive and into Big Lots Pond and into Miller Lake. This flow of water has to stop. Please stop the flow
of water from east of 1792 and remove the flood waters from Miller Lake. Help the people of Miller Lake get their land back and our way of life back. I feel because the height of the water now is as high as it ever been in my lifetime. The next flood is going to
flood Shady Lane. Now you're going to have people on Shady Lane that can't get out. And if Shady Lane floods, Alice Drive won't get out. And and I don't understand why you're not doing anything because we are going to flood again. The water is where
it's at. You you've seen the horse farm disappear. That started when FDOT built their pond. So the attack on Miller Lake has to stop or you're or we're going to turn into the largest retention pond in West
Faluchia. and that I can't sell my house now because I have to disclose that you may or may not have access depending on the weather and depending on nothing is being done. So, I'm asking you guys to do something. You you have some
responsibility here. You you dug out and made the lake bigger. That retention pond, you haven't seen that rep retention pond in four years. It's been totally covered. It's up to the top of the covers. So, I'm asking you all to do something. Thank you for your
time. Katherine Levenson. Hard to follow that one. Katherine Levenson, Miller Pond, which is now Miller Lake. Um, so I have a little slideshow for you. It's a little different. I usually tell you all different things. says, "Well, this is a new one for you." Well, maybe not. I
think you guys probably know this. So, Forever uh Florida, which shows the wildlife corridors that go all the way through the whole state. And okay, next slide. It also shows them going through Valuchia County. Go ahead, next slide.
So, here's Valuchia County. You can see the little square at the top, which shows you um Okay, next slide. Here is Miller Lake, which is really Miller Pond. You can see it in the yellow. It's kind of a little thing right there. Um
you see the triangle that's roads. Uh so we are actually in Florida forever Florida which means a lot. It means that it's a cons conservation area. It means that the rare species are allowed to go through there and it means that you guys
are not supposed to be flooding us. It's against the law. Okay, next slide. The the state law. Here it is again. Another highlight one that you can see all the red and pink areas are the areas that are conservation areas where rare species are allowed to go through the corridor and you can see the in the pink
and the red right here next to the road is Miller Lake and Miller Lake community. We are a big part of it. Uh next slide please. So, when you purposely flood a property in Forever Florida, there is penalties and somehow
they got bypassed because I don't have another slide for this one. I'll just tell you in Forever USA, all those restrictions are all gone. They just disappear on the internet. So, there's something going on where you guys took off or Forever took off all the Forever
Florida restrictions. How did that happen? I just would like to know why. I'm not a lawyer. I just see that something changed and Forever Florida has been around since 2001. We've been a conservation area since 2001 and now we're getting flooded on purpose which
is what this slide shows you. And I would just like to have a reason. I want to know why we're getting flooded on purpose from Orange C Orange City and you guys have are allowing it and of course um the river management people are allowing it. It needs to stop. All the animals are displaced. I told you
last time how my dog gets sick every time he drinks the water and I can't stop it because he's a puppy. Um I you know that the bears, the deer, even armadillos are just like they're all stressed out and you can tell I've lived there long enough. I have cameras
everywhere. I watch the animals and none of them are right. Nothing is right. So we've got to fix this and I know you guys can make a solution. You're all smart. You're here for a reason. I need it. We need it solved. We need it solved like six months ago because here we are eight months out since the hurricane and
I still can't get out to my dock. I still can't get out anywhere. My property still flooded. So, please help us. That's what we're here for. Thank you, John Nicholson. John Nicholson Beachside. Uh years ago, there was a gentleman that
would show up at the city commission meetings and uh talk about the flination in water and nothing was done. Nothing was said to him, nothing was anything. And so for six months,
every city commission meeting the C gentleman kept coming over and over again until finally they had a meeting and was resolved. Miller Lake is coming and they will be here every meeting until they're satisfied one way or the other. So, I'm
asking please for the rest of us, you may not be bothered by it, but the rest of us are. Um, did I miss the memo about the loud tie day? I mean, all these ties that are just a little bit bright and cheerful.
Um, looks good, but it's just unusual that five out of the six of you do have loud ties. Um, item H, sand. How far is this sand going to come up? I know we were talking about hopefully that the sand would eventually come up to Daytona
Beach, maybe possibly, and even Ormond. So, how far is this particular sand going to go? Uh, hopefully it's closer past New Beach. Um, and lastly, parking garage. Now, I've talked to uh Troy about
it several times. I can't get to my house because the ocean center is having something. All right. I've talked to Lynn and I talked to our police chief and I talked to our city manager and talked to Mike Chipwood. They're all everybody's understands that there's a problem. Now, this problem goes back 30
years. All right. 20 years ago when we knew there was a problem, you guys expanded your ocean center. beautiful, attractive, more more used. Um, but the problem was you all didn't have enough
money to do it, right? So, the city allowed you not to put in a parking garage because in our city whenever you build something, you have to have parking per square footage, etc. That applies to county property as well. So, you were supposed to build another
parking garage and you guys didn't have the money, so you didn't build it. So now we're having a problem every time graduation comes around every year. Every time there's two events, major events in the area, every Memorial Day, every Labor Day, we have parking problems. Again, this graduations
parking problems you get that will be Yeah. you're going to leave Halifax open for us. Except the fact that at two intersections when the cars back up, the traffic stops on Halifax because you can't get people into parking spaces because everybody
comes in at the last minute. So, I'm asking you to take a look carefully about a parking garage for that area because we absolutely need it. Thank you. Thank you. Mark Karsten's. Hi, how are you doing? Yes,
I'm Mark Karstens's from Orange City and the reason I'm here is is a reminder that uh let me see. Yeah, on June the 26th at 2 o'clock, uh we're going to be having the
historic pres preservation board meeting and uh I usually sit where Jeff Brower is because I'm the I'm the chair of the uh what he call historic preservation board. It's an honor for me to be able to sit there. I I really appreciate it.
And I'm trying to get uh get these seats behind me filled with people to come that are interested in the historic preservation issues in the county and you know making life better and preserving buildings because uh once
they're gone they're gone forever. You know you can't bring these historic buildings back. So we have to and we are a certified uh local government. We're part of the certified local government and uh uh Kimberly Reading is she's a historic preservation officer and uh I
really do invite you to come on uh what was that uh June the 26th at 2:00. I'm trying to get the seats as as full as possible as have as as many people from the local people come to the meetings
because we uh I'd like to fill the seats if possible. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Okay, that concludes the public comments for the beginning of the uh meeting. We
will move to uh item one, approval of the agenda. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion to approve by Councilman Robbins and a second by uh Councilman Reinhardt. All in favor say I. I. Any
opposed? And the agenda is approved as written. Uh six to zero. Um any comments uh wanted on the uh consent item?
Anybody want to comment? on an item after it's voted on. If not, is does anybody have an item they would like to pull for a vote? Chairman, motion to approve consent agenda as proposed by staff. Okay. Uh,
Councilman Kent makes a motion to approve the consent agenda um as proposed. A second was by Councilman Robbins. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? And consent agenda is
passed. Six to zero. Wonder if this is an omen for how the day is going to go up the show. Okay. Item three. Item three is is a resolution to consider extension of the Holly Hill
Community Redevelopment Agency. Good morning. Clay Irvin, director of growth and resource management. Before you today is a request from the city of Holly Hill for two things. One is an extension of an existing CRA and a modification to that plan. Uh CRAAS,
pardon the acronym, is community redevelopment areas. This is something that is enabled by Florida statutes and it is something that um cities and counties have utilized as part of their redevelopment areas for areas that have been deemed blighted. There's a full process that you have to go through uh
that's specifically called out in Florida statutes as to what is a blight study, what is a blight plan, and how you can utilize that to develop policies and strategies to alleviate the blight and create a more vibrant area. Holly
Hill is one of 17 community redevelopment areas that we have in Valuchia County. It was established in 1996 after uh going through a series of negotiations with the county in 1992. I have to clarify that a city of itself
cannot simply create a community redevelopment area. That is why this is here in front of you today. The county council has the authority to delegate that right to those cities and as such goes through this process to ensure that
we have a check and balance that these areas that may be deemed blight by the cities are consistent with what the county wants to see be done. One of the things that Holly Hill is facing is a deadline of December of 2026. They are trying to make sure that
they beat that deadline for a potential extension because they feel that there's still additional work that needs to be done. And it talks about the amount of money that they are currently pulling in and what they would like to be able to do with it. It's roughly a 755 acre area. it it
as you can see in the studies that were provided to us um by Holly Hill and their consultant they've identified the past things that they've done and those lists are listed right here in front of you. One of the things that your staff looks at is what has been the policy
direction established by your county council. uh in previous years in 2010 and then again in 2015 there were very specific guidelines that the county council provided to staff and more importantly to the cities. Um prior to
that time there weren't as many uh restrictions and so therefore many of the existing CRAAS prior to those times had really relatively u free will with the use of the tax increment financing funds. Tax increment
financing is a method of saying that we're starting this redevelopment district at this year and then going forward any increases in taxable value will be kept from going into either the general fund or municipal service district or other taxing services and
will be funneled solely within that community redevelopment area. Well, one of the things that the county council saw in 2010 and subsequently in 2015 was a concern with how that was being done. They wanted to have a little bit better control as to what the projects were. They wanted to make sure that the
funding sources were appropriate and what you see in some of the newer community redevelopment areas such as you see in Deltona where there was restrictions on how it could be spent and there was a requirement that over time the county's contribution was being uh slowly reduced
over the time frame. So therefore what you would see is the first five years would be at 95% and as the it closed out it would be closer to 50% at the end. The other aspect is that the county council really wanted to make sure that these were being spent for capital
projects, not operational needs and those things because county council felt that the t the taxes that were being diverted away from the um general fund and municipal service district needed to go for infrastructure. This information has
been provided to the city of Holly Hill. they are aware of what the requirements are, the standards that were established by the resolutions that were approved in 2015, specifically 201546. And so what they've done is come through and they've provided us with an
updated plan they believe complies with those standards. Uh staff has gone through it right now. Uh you can see that table five in that plan on I believe it's on page 46, correct? um shows the projects that they are
proposing as part of this update. The whole point is that they were uh identifying to us that these are the potential projects understanding that the amount of money that's shown in these tables may exceed the actual amount of money that's collected through the tax increment financing, but it
gives the county an idea of what could be utilized for. So, at this point, it's the county council's decision as to whether or not uh they feel it's appropriate. Uh so, there are two actions that are being requested. One is an extension. The
second is a modification. So, you can approve, you can amend, or you can deny. At this point, staff is uh available to answer any questions you may have. And I know that there are representatives from the city here who will be glad to answer
any questions you may have. Thank you. Let's start with uh with questions for staff of the city. Uh Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clay, can you give us um and and I'm sorry to just throw this question at you. Can you
give us some uh short history as from the legislature on action they've been taking towards CRA over the last few years? Oh yes, sir. They definitely they've definitely identified CRAAS as something they would like to see sunseted. Uh uh several years ago they
passed some legislation which limited the time frame that these things could exist except by approval of a supermajority of the uh local body. Uh there was a pending bill this past year which would have changed that time frame
and shortened it considerably. So yes, there is a uh what you're seeing at the legislative level right now, there is a shift away from encouraging these and trying to curtail them. So it sounds like they keep adjusting or looking at
closing the door toward the future of CRAAS. Yes, sir. That's all I have for right now, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Uh Councilman Kent for questions. Yes. Thank you, Chairman. I have a question for the mayor of Holly Hill, Mr. Penny. Mayor Penny, Mayor, thank you for being here and for
several of your commissioners and your your city manager. I I appreciate it. My question is um as you know, you know, CRAAS and and TIF districts um help areas that are blighted. This area that we're talking about, would you still as the mayor of Holly Hill, would you still consider
this area to be blighted? Yes. I think um the thing that made our city great in the 50s and 60s was US1, US1 corridor. That's our main street. And in the 50s and 60s, the only way to get from New York to Miami was US1. So they had to
pass through our city and all these little cottage motel popped up and they would start to advertise air conditioning or cable TV or pool. It's a nice place to stop, spend the night, and then travel to South Florida. the uh when the interstate came and the
turnpike came, traffic on our street stopped and the motel on our main street fell into a state of disrepair. And um so recently some some of the motel have been redeveloped where my office complex is. It's called
Cottage Row Plaza. And at one time there were 24 uh motel units there, 12 individual buildings. a developer bought that several years ago and with some incentives from the CRA turned that into
12 standalone business condos. So there's uh massage therapists there, there's counselors there, you can get your haircut there, you can buy insurance from me there. Um so that's one of our success stories, but unfortunately there's many much more
work to be done. Um, we have just one of our greatest assets that we have now is Picton Tona and that was uh thankful to Echo and from our CRA that um when I first got involved in politics, I wanted to change the unearned negative
reputation of Holly Hill. I grew up in Valuchia County my entire life and as I got involved in the community, I found out that many of the things that people said about our community just weren't true. But we have a long way to go and we're just starting to lift oursel up. Um I was talking to Representative
Santiago earlier that if you fly down our city on Google Earth, you can get on Google Earth and change the dates and you see the improvements that we've made over the last 20 years. We're getting better, but I'll credit our city manager Joe Forte that we're here. We want to be
here. And how do we get there? One rung at a time. and it's been slow and methodical, but I think our CRA is one of the most fiscally responsible in Valuchia County and in the entire state I'd put that up against. So, um, we have a long way to go. We've brought oursel up, but we there's still a lot more work
to do and we we graciously appreciate the 10-year extension. Thank you, mayor. And I appreciate the hard work you and your commission and and your management staff have been doing in Holly Hill. Um, I mean the the results you can obviously see them like you said if you fly down
Google Earth, but even if you go back in your Rolodex a little bit and think about how it used to look on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest, of course, how important is this to you and in your community for this extension to help get the jobs you want to get done,
the improvements you want to get done in your community over the finish line? How important is this? I think it's a 10 out of 10. Um, and and people will criticize I've heard people criticize that some of the funding from the CRA is um charity
to developers. And I believe that the CRA is in place to make deals happen that wouldn't happen in the public in the private sector. I'm sorry. Um, so if we can incentivize by helping someone with landscaping, helping someone with a sign or helping someone with facade
improvement, we can get some of those deals across the finish line to make the deals happen where we're just that close. Um, one of the things where we try to send out um, representatives to recruit national businesses, a Dairy Queen. I'd love to
have a Dairy Queen in our city. Um, but when we do the demographics, they do a three- mile study. We're a thousand feet from the Halifax River. So three miles is out into the ocean. So we don't have the demographics to support some of these national companies and these national chains to
come to our community because the population just isn't there. Quite frankly, we don't have that much disposable income either. We're a bluecollar working community. We have a lot of people that work hard that just don't have the disposable income. And so the tool of the CRA will help us get
some of these deals across the finish line. Mayor, thank you for being here. Thank you for answering my questions. And I I'll just um end my comment to you with you may not have a Dairy Queen, but um you do have a Sonic and my wife drives there just for the ice alone. So,
thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. My question is actually I only have one. Uh the mayor answered a couple of them for me, but for Clay, currently we have how many CRAAS in the county? Again, you may have 17. 17. And would you say the majority of
them are already at 2036 and there's only a handful that are before that? One of which is Holly Hill 26. 2026. I I don't know off the top of my head, but I would say South Daytona is coming close. Oh, look. Joe Forte right here. He's on it. But everyone else is 2036. 2036. So
So So we're looking at one that is Joe's done the research. Good for him. Yeah, he knew he must have known I was gonna ask that question. So um and there was a comment and my my others a comment if that's okay, chair. Um with respect to this, I'm done with the
question. Um there was a development that was going to go into South Daytona. Uh and unfortunately it fell through. One of the comments that developer had said was it was a luxury apartment complex and they were going to have a uh ferry if you will or a boat taxi that
would travel the inter coastal and the idea was to stop at different locations even go across the the river to the beach shores. But the comment was made at that time and it kind of stuck in my head uh that they had an idea of going down as uh as far north as as Orand uh
into Mr. Kent's district. And I thought that was that would be awesome if we could p put more of that there. Um I have personally seen uh I've been in in Valuch County since 1970 and on the west side but spent a lot of time over here and I have seen the improvements myself
from what Holly Hill has done and um so uh I would like to see others take note of that and and maybe bring theirs up to up to speed. So but that was the only question. Thank you very much. Councilman Robbins for you have
questions. Yes, sir. Good. Mayor, may I call you again? Good morning. Morning. Uh, thank you, mayor, uh, for for your representation, leadership, uh, on this subject here. Just because I'm not as familiar with,
um, Holly Hill as some of my other colleagues are, just have a couple couple questions. She's trying to look at uh, and drill down consistency wise. Sure. uh across the county. If you were to pick top uh out of all these initiatives, what would be your top
three that you must haves uh separate them from the wants? Um I don't have them right in front of me. You have to pull them back. Can you pull them back up? Chissa, can we um that's the beginning of it and then
Okay. Um what would you say the top three issues are in in your city? Um the US one corridor. Um and that is the the one there priority A1 RZWood corridor. So it be economic development,
storm water, underground utilities kind of I'm looking for like a more um intricate or detailed um answer so I can process this a little bit better. Um well if you ask me a year ago I would
say elimination of the the motel on US1. Would you prioritize that over storm water infrastructure? If you were to ask me now I would say storm water. Okay. Um because storm water is is the hot topic. So, in in the present time right now, mayor, yes, and I and I hate to to grill you on it. I'm just it would help me out
so I know your core needs, right? Um so I can uh make my vote uh the best that it can. Um would you say economic development is right up there, too? Can we can we lump that into the US one? How about uh underground utilities and the stormwater master plan on on there? I I
think the stormwater master plan would would go right to the top. And and would you say would it be safe to say uh mayor that with those top priorities can some of this other stuff uh would it be a want or a need? Some of this other stuff
um things we discussed would be needs. Some of the other things would be wants. You know, landscaping, public art, that that's that's a want. Um, but the the needs if we get back to the the core principles of what the government's supposed to
provide, it would be the things that we just discussed. Thank you. I have nothing further. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a question for Oh, I'll pause. I had one more. You had one more? Oh, for Clay. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, Clay. Uh, thank you. I'm sorry.
Got up too quick. Um, real quick, do we have the the leniency um or discretion to narrow down, you had mentioned it, on on what we can uh assign funds if uh this
council chooses to go direction. Could we put more stringent perimeters on on what this money can be used for? Yes, sir. Uh, it's your decision to identify what projects you feel are appropriate for the county funds. Thanks. Thank you,
Councilman Santiago. Thank you. I got a question for our finance team. Here's a whole team. Yeah. Right. Yeah, you are. Now, um, what's this going to cost if we approve this? What's this going to cost us annually?
The extension from 2027 through 2020 2036 at current rates uh would be approximately a million dollars a year. A million dollars a year and that's general that would would that generally be general revenue funds? It would go into general revenue as it's written
right now. The resolution that's in front of you would just be general fund. The current CRA that expires in 2030 2026 is all funds. Gotcha. Do do you happen to know what is the the legislaturator's
um cap um on the lawful millage rate that a city can impose? I believe it's actually in the constitution of 10 mills. Okay. Constitution. Okay. Didn't know 10 10 mills. It's 10 mills. I believe it's in the constitution. Maybe it's both. What
is Holly Hills current mill rate? 5.8. Um, so they have room. There is 4.2 remaining. Okay, that's all my questions for you. Thank you, Ryan. Um, Mr. Chairman, I I think you gave um Matt a little latitude to just shift
into comments. If I could have the same, I'd like to just share a couple items. Um, unless there's other questions. No, I think we're ready for comments anyway. Um, thank you. Um, to to my colleagues and and to the
mayor, thank you for being here and your council. I I have a lot of respect for you coming here and making your appeal. And I want you to know that my comments are not relative to specific Holly Hill. I have a philosophical approach that
still was within me regarding CRAAS and and and a lot of that is driven from historical uh information that I've had over the years, not just specifically to Holly Hill. I today I've seen Holly Hill but throughout our state and um I
generally have an opinion of them similar to what the legislature continues and work towards eliminating them. But my motive today is more Valuchia County centric. And uh to my colleagues
um I think most of us know that as we go into this budget cycle, we're going to be under immense pressure to drive towards roll back, right? Um and a lot of that's going to be driven around what revenues that we have in order to make decisions uh on how much we're bringing
in and where do we want to cut if anything. And I was I I pulled up an an old text message, not old actually, it was probably just a a couple weeks ago from a legislator uh office that complimented Valuchia on
how we have gone on our millage rate compared to most most of our neighbors and compared to the rest of the state. And just to put things in perspective, we you know, I'm I'm assuming they have these numbers, right? It came from them. We went from a just a few years ago
5.59 to last year 3.20 and they were amazed on what we've been able to accomplish here in Valuchia. Um and I think because we've been fiscally conservative. That being said that we have to be very careful how much money we we dish out. What I've
learned in these last two years being in the county council is that we get blamed for everything. Everything. I don't care if it happens in the city limits or unincorporated. We get blamed for it. And people look for solutions here. And oftentimes those solutions, guess what?
They cost money. And so I want to uh I'm of the opinion that and I know Holly Hill is probably worthy of it. But I think we should stick to the path of saying, you know, you have room in your millillage. They can self-impose this tax, raise their millage rate for their people to cover this million dollars to
do what they want. And and I wish them the best. Uh Council Member Robbins, you asked questions about storm water. I think he said it was the top priority, which I think is probably a good top priority. We have funds dedicated specifically for those types of needs in our uh the 386. I forgot the what we
calling it. Um but we have plenty of funds available to that and I want to help towards that. So if we have to find a million dollars or a couple of million dollars to help Holly Hill um to accomplish those high priorities of them, I'm willing and willing to champion that. I'm sure their
representative would too. Um, and let me see what other notes I got here. Um, storm water. Um, I just gentlemen, we we in the next few months, we're going to be under enormous pressure. I just want to repeat that. Um, on what we're going
to accomplish here in Valuchia. Um, and I think we need to bring back all of this CRA funds over time as the legislature is guiding us to do. And today is really a a prequel uh what we
do on how the other 16 are going to line up. That's this is unfortunate, but that's what's going to happen. And Holly Hill, thank you for the good work you've done. I think your city has a good image now, and I and I respect the historical perspective. I don't have a negative image of of your city. U but I want to
be a partner in different ways. And I don't think the CRA is good for Valuchia County and our governing body. um as things progress here. So, uh with that, I would ask my colleagues to respectfully decline this and then u
let's find other ways to work with them. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Are you making a motion? Not yet. You want to hear from Okay. Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Um, it's interesting to me how for, and
I'll start with myself on this, how short our memories can be about things and and how areas look. I can tell you it's just my opinion that I know we're talking about Holly Hill and I'm going to mention them, but it's just my
opinion that a properly utilized, incredibly successful CRA in a tiff district is Orman Beach is the poster child of that. If I showed you a picture of downtown Orman Beach 18 years
ago, you would not believe it was the same place as today. It is a thriving downtown that has a synergy that makes you want to be there, shop there, eat there, spend time
there. And that is because we have a wildly successful CRA in that tiff district. The next one I want to talk about is is Holly Hill. I love that the mayor talked about Holly Hill as the
working man's bluecollar community. Spot on. It's a much smaller city in our 16 cities with a much smaller budget.
And Mr. Santiago, I got to tell you, I'll be totally transparent. I didn't even tell Holly Hill this when I met with them four or five months ago. What I don't like about this is that it's another 10 years when they've already had 30. I'm going to be transparent and just
say that. I'm not crazy about that part. But here's the flip side to that. They have made huge strides and they need more help now.
And instead of taking a million dollars out of certain pots of of money that we have in the in the community, I would rather continue with 10 years on this CRA. Mayor Penny, I loved your honest
remarks to Councilman Robbins about needs and wants. You didn't stand there and say everything's a need. You were honest and transparent, and I appreciate that. I like the idea that Mr. Robbins talked
about calling out specific I u areas where we could approve the CRA to specifically help Holly Hill. And I'll just also add Holly Hill residents pay county taxes also. They're also county county residents. And you're
good fine people of Holly Hill. They they pay taxes to the county of Lucia just like everybody else. It's that blueco collar working man's community. And I bet if we took a picture of Holly Hill 18 years ago and looked at it compared to today, we we
would also have our memory jarred. It's interesting also that one of the most blighted areas in Orman Beach 18 plus years ago was our downtown on State Road 40, Granada, right across from City Hall. And I've had Orman Beach talking to me
about now their blighted area is US1 where Holly Hill and Orman meet heading north up to destination Daytona. Okay. So, I get exactly what you're saying, mayor, and to your commission that's here. Um, I'm also very pleased with the
leadership of of the mayor of Holly Hill and your current commission. Um, so I appreciate your honesty. I appreciate you coming forward and and asking for this extension because it will help the city and council. You know, I I'm of
course open to listening to to everybody, but I will make a motion to approve this for another 10 years, and I'm open to an amendment of my motion after listening to anybody, but I know Mr. Robbins talked about specific areas where he wants the money to go. I'm open
to that to making possible amendment to that motion if uh if I do indeed get a second. Thank you. Okay. So, we have a motion on the floor to approve the CRA for 10 years. Second, Joe. Oh, go ahead.
And the second was uh did he just say Reinhardt? Okay. It sounded just like Jake Johansson. Okay. Important thing is we do have a second by Vice Chair
Reinhardt. Okay. Well, I I hate to follow that uh now. Um Mayor Penny, I'm going to tell you that you have served your city well um this morning. You're you're a really good mayor. Um I used to
Is my time up? I used to live in Holly Hills some decades ago and I have seen vast improvement. It's one of the first places my family goes at Christmas time to see the uh all the Christmas lights on on US1.
Um the uh Chris Via and and Joe Forte and and that council served the city well. You and this council and Joe are serving your city well. Now, here comes the however. Um, I
I am philosophically opposed to CRAAS and and to extending them, and I'm going to be a no vote um for this reason. Mr. Santiago mentioned that it's going to be really hard for us to
um to not overspend in our general fund. We are trying to go to roll back. We've been successful every year. Um, and we we have to continue that the CRAAS, not just this one, but all the
CRAAS take money from the county and yet we're still required to provide the essential services that the county provides. So, it it's a it's a double cost. The problem is, as I look around
the county, is I I represent the whole county. I travel the whole county and everywhere I go, people say, "Would you please reduce our taxes? I can't afford to live here anymore because of property taxes, the mortgage payment or the rent
and homeowners insurance. It's it's hard. And so I want to keep uh driving us to go to roll back um and the general fund where this comes out of not not just from Holly Hill but from all 17
CRAAS make that very difficult. So so what actually a CRA is doing is asking every city and the taxpayers in every city to participate in the needs of Holly Hill. Um, that's not a bad thing
except that every city also has needs and they're trying to meet their needs without raising their taxes or to raise them as as uh slightly as possible. Um,
so I I I can't vote for this and and ask every other city in this county to um live within their own means um solve their
problems and and then approve uh other cities um reaching in to their taxes and asking them to help pay for the needs of Holly Hill. I think it's I think we it's
happening at the federal level, the state level. It needs to happen at the county level and the city levels that we we all are reducing um every way we can our expenses. You you do have work to do. You mentioned storm water, probably
the most important one, but so does every other city here and um and so does the county. So, for those reasons, um, I'm opposed not to just the Holly Hill CRA, but to all 17 of the CRAAS. I I
think the legislature has this one right. Uh, Councilman Johansson, thank you, sir. Um, I'm I'm kind of in the same boat as you and David with uh the philosophical uh aspect of CRAAS.
Um, as most of you know, I spent a little bit of time with a city manager hat on. I had uh two of them in Port Orange. Uh, I know some of my other east side cities uh had them as well as Orman and
Holly Hill. Uh, I'm very pleased to see what Orman did and I was very excited to see after the the 2008 uh uh dump in real estate that that Holly Hill was able to come out and and
seal the deal with Ptona which has um which has really done great things for for not only Holly Hill but the surrounding the surrounding areas. uh you all have some international uh uh international folks coming to to
play and participate in pickle ball and I know that that sparked the interest in the area to the point where now you want to get moving and you run out of time. Um, I also appreciate your your answers
to uh Councilman Robbins questions about where the money is going to go. And I think uh I think if this goes that direction that I'd like to see uh a lot of the money going toward infrastructure. Holly Hill
is is the the end of a lot of people's problems, not just Holly Hills. So, uh, infrastructure and storm water is is important. We're going to end up paying for that project somehow anyhow or we're going to keep flooding. So, where does
the money come from? It's probably stacked uhh by every grant known to mankind, including this money. Um, and and as far as the the happy stuff, I know that's important for small business
in the area as well. Uh but but when you run out of money, you run out of money. So um I don't know where I fall on this yet. Uh but but when we talk about getting money back in in our county fund
and and and stop the CRA business, there's still 16 out there, most of which terminate in 2036. So, uh, if if this passes, I'd like to
follow it up pretty close with a hard look at an ordinance that says no CRAAS pass 2036. Uh, so if if this one passes, they all sundown and and we're we're out of
the game in 2036. um a million dollars a year. I don't know what the county millage is. 0.00 something. Um I'm not saying it's not an impact. We we fret over 600
$500,000. Um but but seeing what Holly Hill is doing with the money right now and that they're they're I I'll coin the term they're on the roll. I don't want that momentum to
stop. There are a bunch of other cities who aren't on the roll right now. And I would have no problem saying you stalled. You haven't made movement or or you're not using the money the way we think you should be. U but in this case,
they're they're doing a great job. So, I'm torn right now. Um, but uh uh I'm I'm very supportive of of the momentum piece and uh um and the money and the money piece. Uh it's very possible that
$14 million they're asking for for storm water will will come from us in addition to their CRA money to make it happen quicker. So that's all I have. Thank you, Chairman. Councilman Robbins. Thank you,
Chair. I tell you, it's not an easy one. um with with this uh David's got some great point. Everybody had some great points. Um but at the end of the day, how I'm looking at this and I don't like CRAAS in all honesty, but there's another side to
this uh with the the current uh conditions that we have now. Uh we want to reduce taxes. Which is better? Reducing the taxes or fix the infrastructure. uh which is a better investment is how I'm I'm looking at it. And with that tax
savings that the people would be getting, would it be a better investment or better for them to fix the infrastructure for instance for storm water because they'd be using that tax savings to fix their home, to fix their
roads or uh pay for insurance premiums, whatever the the the case may be. So, just so everyone knows where my head is at, uh, you know, there there it is. Um, we're getting calls. I mean, I've
heard it for the last four years. Storm water, storm water, storm water, storm water. Uh, we do represent everyone. We have to work together with our cities while keeping our tax burdens down. Um, all hands on deck. This can no longer
wait. Ignoring this is not an option. We hear it every day. So what is you know my biggest question is uh what's what's the right answer? So you know um if I do uh vote in favor to
get rid of this, it's only to be on the prevailing side so we can uh further look at this. Um but uh there has to be a way to address the core needs because we do represent everyone and we have to uh address their needs as well and be a good partner in
this community. So thank you Councilman Santiago. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um Danny, I like the line the path you were going you know in infrastructure stuff and and I acknowledge that um you know the other 15 cities have the similar issues,
right? Um, and we're right at the heart of it as far as because most of those funds, the big funds come to the county for us to disperse. And I don't know, we've had a couple hundred million dollars. I may be off, but that we are working with all the cities and including our projects to to get to the
people where they need it. I agree. You know, they all pay county taxes. We do. They all get county services as everyone else does regardless of where you live. So, um, but Mr. Chairman, I wanted to share something if I can get uh our finance team real quick and and and I
want you to understand my motive. Um and it's nothing personal to Holly Hill, like I said, change the name to XYZ City. It applies the same. Um but about a month ago or three or four weeks ago, I went to our financing. I'm in our leadership team and I wanted to find a
way to eliminate the the the 5-cent gas tax for Valuchia County. All right. I said, I want to get rid of that. I don't want to give some people relief. What's it going to cost? What do we got to do? So, I got into this, you know, I got a great idea, right? Even though it's a simple idea, but I wanted to find a way to bring that back to the council and I
met with them and I think it was going to be somewhere between five and $7 million is what I was told annually that we receive for that. And it's predominantly utilized within our resurfacing program. Most of those funds, that's what I learned. And I know we're not in the budget time, but I got a I I got
information from our finance team. is kind of a preview of some of the headwinds that we're going to be facing um as as we get into our budget cycle. And Mr. Chairman, if I could, can you please share some of the concerns that you have that may be headwinds for us to
deal with our budget? You could pause my time because then I'll close for uh I presume that you're speaking about the general fund because that's what the Holly Hill Sier would be coming from. Uh the general fund will be fully covered in two weeks at the 5-year
forecast. However, some of the already identified issues are uh from a budgetary perspective, sales tax sharing from the state is down, probably about $2 million a year impact to the general fund. Sales tax at the state level also
funds a program that the state calls state revenue sharing. um compared to the budgeted level for the current year, we're anticipating about a $4 million drop in in those revenues that'll be available to us. Uh in
addition, uh there's a probably about a million dollar drop in revenues related to corrections phone commissions. That was a change that was initiated by uh changes in regulations from the Federal Communications Commission, FCC.
Uh we've also identified uh through our conversations with the tax collector who has not officially submitted a budget yet, but we do believe that the excess fees that he remits to us will also probably be down by about $2 million. And then finally from from a u
revenue side of things, uh while the revenues for the beach are up versus last year, when you balance a budget, you have to anticipate what your revenues will be. So, in the FY25 budget that we're in today, we anticipated off-
beach parking revenues to be $7 million based off of what a consultant had told us back then. Uh, it's trending towards three. Optimistically, maybe it could be higher. So, that's a $4 million budgetary gap, although it's $3 million
of new revenue. Uh, there's a similar but smaller gap in toll collections. So there's a lot of revenue gaps that we're facing this year even without addressing the fact that we're in an inflationary environment when it comes to expenditures. Some of our external
expenditures like the Department of Juvenile Justice that we're required to pay by the state looks like about a million dollar increase. Sunrail probably another million dollar increase. Uh CRA payments, not just Holly Hill, but all of them together
close to a million dollar increase in new in new contributions. Thank you. continue. Uh, and then county operations, you know, we have some inflationary costs that we have to balance against, but we're also looking to to cut where we can. So, tentatively,
we're pretty flat in the county expenditure budget, which considering the inflation that we're facing uh in healthcare, and FRS rates, and contractor rates, it uh is a good place to be. But just because your expenditures are level doesn't mean that
you can address all the revenue issues that we have. So that's a preview of the five-year forecast. Thank you. And I apologize for putting you on the spot because I know you're still going through that, but I think it's important for this conversation because we're essentially saying we want to give away a million dollars a year for the next 10
years. That's basically the decision that we're making today, gentlemen. Um, and I added up just there, that's $9 million of loss revenue that we potentially face. Again, nothing against Holly Hill. It's XYZ City. And then
separate from that, a $4 million gap. Gentlemen, we can't do this. Especially with I'm thinking we're going to be talking about POS potentially roll back. I'm going to just say that. I think that's going to be the narrative here. If we're going to do that, then we got to cut other services that the
county has to do. The cities are granted by constitution a millage cap of 10 mills that their constituents hold them accountable to them. They have that flexibility. I think they have to make a decision what their priorities are and
utilize that at their discretion with their constituents. I'm all in for infrastructure and let's find ways to spend the existing hundreds of millions of dollars that we have that are not allocated from general revenue funds. Gentlemen, the prudent decision here is
to deny and send a clear message um that we can no longer be in the CRA business, but we'll be partners in other ways that we can. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. All good comments um from every council
member and um and from Holly Hill and even our our u director from finance. Briefly, I'm just going to touch on on the the finance piece about about the beach. And I'm glad that you you clarified uh even though the projections were down, that is still new money off
beach parking that we did not have. And I say let's wait until the fat lady sings. I mean, it's June 3rd. you know, we have a full summer that we need to, you know, just check receipts and see what it looks like. Then it also sounded like um toll revenues were up uh since
you said they they mimicked what offbeat was, but they're not at the projection that um we were hoping for thus far. So anyway, that that being said, council, I am still in favor of this even even uh listening to my
distinguished colleague, Mr. Santiago. um share his his very valid comments and I I'm gonna I'm gonna reach out um to Mr. Johansson and Mr. Robbins and see
what is it we need to do to get a yes on this because Jake, I'm with you on 2036. We say all of these are sun setting and and this is going to be it. I'm there. I'm with you on that. And Mr. Robbins,
I'm also with you as far as amending my motion or withdrawing my motion if the seconder is okay with it and and restating my motion to make sure that this money uh focuses on infrastructure needs in Holly Hill. I think those are both wise and prudent ways to address
this. And I think it was Mr. Johansson or maybe it was Mr. Robbins that said, you know, we've been hearing people screaming about storm water and it's got to be addressed one way or the other. So, um I I appreciate Mr. Santiago
talking about there's there's still meat on the bone for Holly Hill to go up to 10 mills. I mean, that's brutal for your residents. And I'm not willing to tell Holly Hill that because I don't believe this council or any uh past county
council has ever told a community, hey, you you yourselves can go ahead and and and hammer that out on your own. This is a partnership. CRAAS currently are allowed. CRAAS are working in our community. Is the old English phrase,
the proof is in the pudding. And Holly Hill, I don't think that you have spent your money foolishly. Um, you know, you you bring real facts to the table. And I heard, you know, about the benefits of Pictona in that community. But how about
for Valuchia County? How about for the state of Florida, people traveling here just to go to that complex and participate? It's a neat thing that that you all have there. And um that's why I'm I'm still in favor of it. But I want you to know I'm willing to change my
motion to help my colleagues feel more comfortable about this. I think Mr. Johansson and Mr. Robbins bring up some very valid points. Thank you. You don't like my points? I'm joking. I'm joking. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair.
This may be more of a staff uh question and David hit on it earlier. uh stormwater infrastructure. Um has Holly Hill or have we been working with Holly Hill to address or any process any applications from the for some of these
projects uh that that they're asking for? In other words, would they qualify under the transform 386 or Milton funds? Yeah, we already are working with them. They have some projects. Uh I'm not so sure there might have been
some more utility projects, but I do believe they've also got uh worthwhile very uh important um storm water projects and we work with them. We've met with them. We met with the mayor, met with the manager on our canals and and ditches that are in their city as
well. Will we we be able to fund their storm water master plan and some of their other infrastructure stuff with any of those? And what I'm trying to drill down on uh county manager is the residents have always been already been taxed uh you know through through our tax
system all the way up the federal level. So, if we can somehow make these work and address their core needs like the the mayor uh was saying, how do we use it? Uh how can we make that happen with the transform through 86 or Milton money that we're certainly eligible uh for the
on the storm water projects? Not necessarily all the utility, but definitely for the uh storm water. Uh the only thing I must say, remember, it is a competition. So, you know, we can't sit here today and say they're going to get
XYZ because they're in competition with the other uh cities as well. So, I hesitate to just say, "Hey, that's going to get all taken care of." But I'm sure uh uh they will get money uh or more monies through the the program that's
out there today. My concern is this is just countywide again, not Holly Hill. everything is there probably going to be a lot more storm water uh project costs than there is money in in this program. So, it will be very competitive. Um and
we're constantly looking at other ways to uh to fund storm water. Um economic development, what is our leeway? I know we've done a lot of projects and I I know it it's probably a no no uh even suggesting this but I have
to um I know we've had economic development reserves I remember talking about it last few years know we've done some big projects out at the the uh the airport are our reserves that we've already been taxed on are those eligible to help out some of their economic
development needs and like a partnership or grant program is that possible through our economic development reserves. I mean I thought one point if they're doing an economic development project they can always askbody else
or eligible to ask for a grant. You haven't given very many grants and you have a lot of that grant money is already spoken for. So I I would hesitate to again sit here at the dis and uh be able to say exactly what but
they certainly are uh eligible to to uh so that's something we we would be able to help them out with you know or entertain. It's not a guarantee but what I'm looking to do is is um I need something to really help me
justify doing this CRA. But if we if you're telling me that we already have funds or programs that are available to help their needs that would help potentially Holly Hill that would make my my decision uh uh a lot easier. But
um and and anything do we have any programs for the underground utilities or that we can help them out with or any utilities are usually treated differently because they are enterprise funds at least for us. cities I I know
have a little bit different rules, but uh typically uh even our our utilities also look to the state for um help from the D and and other state agencies, but we don't really have anything
uh we have our own utility that we have to sure work with. And and just for the the the residents as as you go down through this list for those uh it's page 47, you know, I look at like Riverside Park improvements and it and it goes back to
to drilling down on the core needs, you know, 125, 150, 250. There's there's echo stuff that we already get taxed on for that. We uh also have a uh a robust uh arts uh cultural arts and and program established public art program. You
know, we can work with uh uh or align them with uh some of the programs that we do support to possibly help them out. Um landscaping, I don't know. But I'm just going down this to I just don't want to see overlap. And it
appears that there's other revenues as as Mr. Santiago uh has alluded to uh that can potentially cover um some of the core needs uh of this and and I'm probably just like everybody else more
than willing to to help out uh wherever we can within our current um um programs that that the taxpayers have already been uh taxed on. So that's it.
Councilman Santiago, 30 seconds. Mr. Chair, and right there is the close. Danny, I agree with you. We need to use the existing uh resources we have available for all of those line items because we have uh other budgetary dollars that we can help Holly Hill with all the other things. And and gentlemen,
if if we're if we're willing to well, I'm not, but give up a million dollars, why don't we just save that and find $4 million and let's give everybody a 5-cent gas tax reduction. Eliminate the gas tax. That's what I'd rather do. That's my thoughts. Councilman Johansson.
Sir, something was brought up that I I just want to be clear on. when when we do the budget, um, a lot of a lot of nonprofits and a lot of cities come to us for echo funding, for forever funding. Uh,
cultural arts comes to us for funding. And a lot of times those funding sources, especially Echo, has a city match. That city match comes from the same people that are paying the same tax for Echo. It's just coming from a
different source, right? You take a a taxpayers's dollar, you give 50 cents of it to Holly Hill and 50 cents of it to Echo and and then Echo approves a grant for a dollar and it's the same person's
dollar. So, so don't think we're we're not double taxing in almost anything that we ask for a city match for. Um uh I I'm I'm hearing what a lot of people are saying, but nobody said it. The the
the priority that we all seem to be concentrated on is this a to address flooding and runoff of water quality. Um and and Mayor Penny has also said now that's his number one priority. And I
know that particular project in addition to all the transform 386 things that that they may or may not be putting their name in for uh SRF funding if you can get it in every other way to to to get utilities and flooding under
control. Um if if we said look that's uh looks like $18 million if not a little bit more. Um, that's not all going to come from CRA money. That's not all going to come
from uh from transform 386. That's going to be stacked any ways if they can do it. Um, but but if we amend the motion to make A2 their AAA1 and say you you will do everything
you can to fund this first before all the the happy stuff. um uh and it can run in parallel. Maybe that's what we do. It's like a 386 grant, but it's done through
the CRA. Um but I I think a lot the the reason I'm aiming toward that is because I think a lot of Holly Hills problems um are are causing problems in other municipalities as well or other areas,
let's put it that way. Um and and secondly, all the um all the updates to LPGA because that's the other thing people complain about the stinking traffic on LPGA. So if if we can stack their
priorities and I I know this tomorrow it could change again, but stack their priorities based on the closest alligator at our ankles, it'll take 10 years to accomplish some of this stuff in its totality. and that's when the CRA
would be over. Um, so if if you guys are up for that, I think Troy made the motion to uh to demand that that not demand but um
put their priorities for spending their CRA money with uh A2 and A1 um in the infrastructure enhancements as as their top two priorities over all others. I think that will spur economic
development. It will make it easier to come in and develop without a subsidy because I don't have a flooding problem because I don't have traffic problems. You're not trying to convince me to live in an area that's substandard because it's no longer substandard. Uh so Troy,
are you up for that? Absolutely. Did he can I get some kind of Yeah or I I won't ann I won't say anything. Okay. Got it. So with with the
stipulation that that's in in a contract, I'd like to uh uh um I'd like to make sure that's in the contract Clay and and Paulo and uh if the motion stays the way the motion stays and that is her priorities and then I'm good with it as
it is. Councilman Kent. Thank Thank you, Chairman. Um I'm going to clean that motion up, Mr. Johansson, and and thank you for your leadership on that. Very briefly, and and I'll repeat it in the microphone. Mayor Penny, what is your annual budget in the city of Holly Hill
right now? 36 million. Is that correct? Approximately. Okay. Um, thank you. Uh, that that approximate million dollars a year is huge to the city of of Holly
Hill. Mr. Johansson, I'm going to withdraw my motion if the seconder, Mr. Rob, um, Reinhardt is okay with it and make the motion again with prioritizing A2 and A1 as Mr. Johansson mentioned with infrastructure
enhancements. And Jake, you hit the nail on the head with spurring economic development. That's exactly the goal of of what I'd like to to see. And Mr. Robbins, do you want something added to that motion? um maybe considering the possible
rewarding with uh priorities where if I you know for instance it must go towards A1 or A2 like if we're to to get thisific to get this across uh the finish line I I would happily make that
motion that the the monies must the priority must be A2 and A1 for in infrastructure enhancements and the secondary agrees What's that miss consing out that what's on the screen is is not the infrastructure section that I
think you're commenting on. That's what I'm seeing. Landscaping. So, I'm reading page 0348 of the uh section 4 financial analysis and resource allocation from the uh from the city.
Looking at the screen, what you see is priority A1 LPGA Boulevard is what we've heard identified and then you have two A2s and what we were hearing is the second A2 address flooding and runoff water quality. Correct. So those would be the two items that would be that the
only way that the county's portion of the TIF could be utilized on those improvements. Mr. Ken, as long as we have must in uh in in replacement of priority, I'm good. I'm good with that. Yes. And I'm I'm okay with that if the
seconder is with with a must. Yes. Okay. So the motion is um A1 and A2 only or did you just change that to um they they must be the priority is what is what I everything on
that list on A1 and A2. Okay. Because there's there's a lot of landscaping, parks, trails. I thought we were talking about storm water and infrastructure. We are we are talking about storm water infrastructure. Jake, do you want to do you want to elaborate?
So A2 is address flooding and runoff water quality that A2 not the first coordinate with St. John's develop master plan facilitate installation of improvements in the Halifax River out floor eval followed by LPGA
Boulevard complete design studies support realignment support improvements identify design constraints gateway and public art installations. So, chairman, this is under the infrastructure enhancements, not under the quality of life. Correct, Mr.
Johansson? Yes. And then and then if they get that done and and there's still more time on the CRA, then then they can continue on. But those two have to be done. They must they must be addressed first. I'm fine
with that. Can you point out where this where this is on this table? page 3-48 on the right hand side on on the right hand side chairman if you look at your screen right the TV screen in front of you right there thank you for marking
that okay so LPGA is um does address flooding and runoff water quality include every does it include US1 is it is it everything in the city? It's the master plan for the
CRA. So that's all 755 acres CR that includes US one. And I'll just say briefly since I I I still had the floor if if this gets us there to help Valuchia County and then
also the city of of Holly Hill. Um, and even if it doesn't, I'm very thankful. I'm I just want to say that publicly. I'm very thankful for this council's ability to um think on the fly, make changes so that we can do something that
we believe will will help there and and and not and even if you're against it, I I respect that wholeheartedly. You know how I feel about your thought process, Mr. Santiago. So, thank you as well. Okay. So, you've got it narrowed it down to these two areas marked. They must be
addressed first and and in that motion and then um to the second or if you're okay with it, as Mr. Johansson mentioned, if there's still time in the CRA after those are completed, then they can come back and we can talk about releasing that money for other other
projects. Okay, one more question for you. We have 17 uh CRAAS that come out of the county fund. How many of them uh retire in
2036? How many of them are coming up earlier? I believe it's been stated that all of them retire by 2036. I know that there's one additional one that's in 2026, which is South Daytona, which we haven't heard anything about. So that's the only early
earlier one. So the rest of them go for another 11 years. Orman crossings would be another one that would be coming up soon. Okay. Do we know if it's coming? I I believe we've had Orman Beach
approach us about the potential. So we have 11 more years with 17 CRAAS probably. Okay. Orman crossings is already extended to 2034. Okay.
I got a question too. Okay. Uh before you go. Yeah. Before you go, Councilman Santiago has a question for you. It might be for you or anybody else in staff. Is Is this thing time sensitive? Do we have to decide on this today? Is there a clock? There is a clock. Um it's
120 days from uh April 16th. So, you need to have a final decision um before August 14th, 2025. So, we got two more months. Uh when are we going to start getting budget numbers, calculations? Yeah, you're right. Later today, we'll
have the first set of five-year forecast. The general fund five-year forecast will be at the next meeting in June. We'll be setting trim rates in July. July. Okay. Uh and then the actual budget hearings occur in September. So, it Okay. So, if I heard that right, we
will have a better picture on the fiscal position for 2026 27. Wait, no, 2025 26, right? um in July. The the five-year forecast that we're going over today and with the general fund forecast covers all the way until
fiscal year 29. So, it'll have an outlook that includes the period in which this becomes effective. And and then some of those potential shortfalls will appear within this next month or so. When we go over the five-year forecast for the
general fund, you'll see all the things that I just talked about, the the headwinds that we're facing and the and the potential impacts of those. Okay. Um and and gentlemen, I I I want to do one of these to my head. Mr. Siago, I want to clarify or Paul's going to clarify
something that he just said. So, it is 120 days normally. It can be extended by mutual consent of both governments. So, okay. Thank you. Holly Hill and the county agrees, you can extend that um decision date out to a future date to be agreed upon. Thank you. Thank you for
that clarification. So, we would have to send it back to the city of Holly Hill to also agree if Yes. Yeah. for for the date. Yeah. Um but it's your decision, your complete discretion on what to do with the delegation of power um that's granted to you by state. Yeah. And and I
did slap my head a little bit here because we we we just heard that we might have a $9 million shortfall from from this year's budget going into next year. I I wouldn't do my personal finance. It's like saying, "Honey, let's go buy a new car and let's go buy that
beautiful Porsche that you want and I don't know what my paycheck's going to be next month." You just wouldn't do it. And I'm not trying to shame anybody into this. I just want I believe that we are all good fiscal conservatives of here and again XYZ city not the name of the city. We
are facing major headwinds and I know the conversation is going to be like putting pressure on George and his staff saying we got to get close to roll back as much as possible which means we don't bring in any any additional revenue. That's what roll back means for just to keep it simple. And if we don't bring in any additional revenues and we're losing
and having additional costs, we wouldn't do this in our own personal funds. I won't do it. I don't think most people will. At a minimum, I'll ask this council this. Table this and let's deal with it in a few
more months when we have a better fiscal picture on where our budget's going to be. Um, a million dollars is a million dollars. We've talked about other projects. So, let's guys I I don't know if there's a motion, Mr. Chair, and I don't think there could
be two motions in play, but let's either withdraw this motion, vote this motion down, and I will promise this. If our fiscal position is worthy of something like this come in a couple months when I think we all have a better picture, I
will be open-minded to consider it from my individual vote. But today, I think it's wrong. and um and we should not do it. This is a bad decision right now. So that that means we have two options. We either have to uh the the motioner, Mr.
Kent and Mr. Reinhardt have to withdraw this or we vote on it and if it's voted down then you can table it. Correct. You see another way? No sir, but if the right if the motion is voted down though, it it would also
fail. Yeah. And I I think if people are open if my colleagues are open to the let's deal with it in a few months, I think it's better that we withdraw the motion, maybe comment to that instead of showing a negative vote towards something towards Holly Hill. So I'm there I'm
looking at Holly Hill um from the perception perspective because it's really not about them for me. If you're open to the tableabling to the motioner and the seconder, consider that and withdraw your motion and then we'll just deal with it in a few months instead of
voting maybe down. It might pass. I don't know. But Mr. Kent. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um just a couple of of brief things and um I I appreciate um Mr. Santiago's passion um for this and
you know we we are fiscal conservatives and believe it or not I actually think by going forward and approving this and helping Holly Hill address their infrastructure
enhancements that they that they desperately need. I think that at the end of the day, fiscally speaking, we get more bang for our buck. And you know, good or bad, I've been involved in
local government for over two decades. And I'm not saying you're you're doing this, Mr. Santiago, but I don't know that I could remember a year ever where I didn't hear people screaming that the sky is falling and there's going to be budget shortfalls
and we're not going to have enough money. By golly, you know, I'll just say I I'll go back to the city of Orman Beach days. I heard that year after year and then I started saying to staff, funny how we have a surplus every year. You're screaming and yelling every year to us about, you know, cutting this and
cutting that. yet at the end of the year we've got extra money and I at this point I'm I'm not willing to withdraw that. I'm hopeful that we're going to get the support. If it if it does get voted down then there may be another
motion by someone um to come back and look at it in in a couple of months. But I think this is the right thing to do for Valuchia County and I think it's the right thing to do for for Holly Hill. So, as the as the maker of the motion, I'm going to I'm going to keep it, especially when we talked about the
infrastructure enhancements that they must be addressed first. Thank you. And I'm sticking with him. Okay. Uh we have a member of the public that would like to speak on this, Mr. John Nicholson. John Nicholson, Beachside.
Um, I live eight houses off of Mason. Mason is the dividing line between Daytona Beach and Holly Hill. Uh, I cannot leave my house and go over the Seabze Bridge without looking at two huge condominiums on the right hand side
that used to be a decrepit public shopping center with a marina that had fallen into disrepair. John was my insurance agent. All right. I remember the motel that the cottages used to look like. I think it's
an advantage. Now for here, you can ask if there's been any increase in taxes because of the conversion. Was there an increase in taxes because of the conversion from the shopping center to the
condominiums? From where I live, I can look out and there are 2,000 new hotel rooms. You cannot tell me that that does not benefit the Ocean Center. You cannot tell me that those 4,000 or 5,000
tourists do not benefit the city of Daytona Beach. None of that would have been possible without the CRA. Now, that was prior to 2004 when Jim Chisum arrived. If you look at Daytona Beach and you go over Main
Street and you look to the leftand side, there are seven huge buildings all before Chisum. On the right hand side, when the conservatives got in and said, "Oh, no, no, we can't spend Tiff money. We don't want those buildings because it costs us money."
Well, it really doesn't cost us money. They pay back the money many times over. When you say there's a million dollar loss, what are these benefits brought to the county with the benefits, the
improvements, all of that brings in additional money. All right? It's not a total loss. You're not giving away like Daytona Beach often does for popcorn and movies and things of that nature. These are drastic improvements. I remember New
Simra Beach. Danny should remember years ago, 20 years ago before uh the CRAAS, what did that look like and what does it look like now? It is thriving. Troy can absolutely guarantee that that Granada is fantastic. All
right, the CRAAS are beneficial. You don't see it, but those of us that live here and remember what these places looked like before and see how they've changed, you can look at your accountants and ask and they will tell
you. We have a property on uh um Ocean Avenue as it pays $47,000 a year in taxes because it's a vacant lot and the city refuses to develop it to get a million and a half in taxes. Thank you.
Thank you. Anyone else? I'll I haven't used my second uh time yet, but I'll make it really brief. U this is a this is a hard vote. Um because I in in your heart I can hear it
in Mr. Santiago. He wants to help city of Holly Hill, but we also want to help the entire county. So the real question for me is do we um do we have each city who is also fighting to keep their taxes
low or reduce them? Probably not possible. Um and do we have each city deal with that or does the county deal with that for each city to absorb um them raising
taxes? we do it as a county or at least um um continue to pay the bill of of 17 CRAAS which is substantial. We we know that we this
isn't Mr. Osowski what you just said about some of the impending bills aren't it's not a guess. Um Sunrail is going up. Um, we already know that, um, one of our primary responsibility is public
safety. The bill for first responders is is going up. It's going to go up tremendously. We're going to we're going to see. Um, so I I appreciate you trying to get us
there with another route. Um, so we'll we'll see where we are. Right now the motion is uh to approve for 10 years um the infrastructure portions of A1 and A2 as the first priority and then if
there's money and time left over then they can spend it on landscaping or whatever. Do I is that is that clear enough close enough to your thinking? Um well we talked about after that they would they would come back. Is that correct Mr. Johansson? they would come back and and we would then give them
those priorities after that. I I it was my assumption that we'd allow them to proceed on with their plan after uh LPGA and the um flooding and runoff have been addressed and have
projects. I I don't see why we would micromanage the CRA. They have a CRA manager that that has a good plan if you look through it. Um um and and I I think we let them go after that,
but all the things on their list for LPGA Boulevard and address flooding have to be complete. Look, look at the the Halifax River outfall backflow prevention. They're estimating in today's dollars at 11 million. Yeah.
It's going to take a while to gather up that money. Yes. That's that's after the after the uh uh after the um the study's done and and I um agree with you, Mr. Johansson, and I wanted to be sensitive
to your wants on this project as well, which is why I wanted to defer and and hear your comments on that, but I I don't I don't want to preempt micromanage CRA. Perfect. Above what we've already done. Okay. The motioner and and the vice chair both
agree with that. So, uh, that's what we're voting on here. Carissa, would you call the role? Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? No. Mr. De Mr. Johansson? Yes.
Mr. Kent? Yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Brower? No. And the motion uh is approved. Mr. Chairman, point for clarification. Now that it's passed, my understanding is that because this will be an agreement uh that'll be modified, that agreement will come back before
this council for final approval. No. Uh it's it's a resolution. Um so I took basically I'm just going to amend um section 2C of the resolution to state that the hold on. We've already voted on a resolution and that vote did not have
specific language in it. The resolution, it's the will of the body. If you want the motion back, excuse me, if you want the resolution back before you after it's amended, it's Yes, I think I think with the corrected language because I believe there's confusion here, at least from me, maybe um on the details of that
direction. So, if that if that gets put into the resolution with the specifics, bring back to this council for final approval. We can bring back the the resolution at the next hearing. Um, but we'll say the the language would read on section 2C, the county tiff contribution
must be used solely for the direct cost of public uh publicly owned capital projects identified for infrastructure enhance enhancements priority A2 address flooding and runoff quality and A1 LPGA identified in table five before any other priority and then the rest kind of
reads I said I think council should see the final exact wordage in the final draft. We can we can put that on the next hearing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Chairman, may I Yes. I I disagree with um my esteemed Councilman
Santiago on that. I think that's what we just did. And I don't I don't feel like it has to come back to us again. If if one of the four that were for this said, "Yes, I think it it should come back because it needs I need to have it again in front of me to be cleaner." But I
think that um legal just said it didn't have to come back. So unless I I hear a majority saying it needs to come back, I'm okay with what we just did. I see Matt chimed in. I'll wait for Matt. I do I do want to say, Vice Chair Reinhardt, thank you, Chair. I I have to agree with Mr. Kent, and I think we're
open up Pandora's box on everything. you know, you're setting precedents on future decisions when we change the language in something that we're going to have to see everything come back and come back and come back and and that to me is the proverbial definition of kicking the can down the so I have to
agree with Mr. Kennel and and where I disagree with that for for one reason, right? Because this is basically a contractual agreement is what this is, right? And what should have happened, right? I didn't make the motion, but what should have happened is that we should have made this specific. You
should have done strike and said insert, right? And you would have said at this point we're going to take this language out and we're going to insert what was said um like that saying insert this and then we would have voted on the strike through and addition of the language.
Right at this point we what we voted on was a concept of make sure they do their primary things and stuff like that. There was no real specific language added to the resolution. So, um, as far as I'm concerned, the resolution that we
voted on was a conceptual one to bring back with your proposed language because nobody said strike and insert. No. And I don't I don't pretend to be a lawyer. I let Mike Dyer and his team do that. But I think that we
satisfied that when Councilman Robbins very wisely used the word must. And because we added that in the motion that these must be addressed first and then we uh hashed it out that we weren't going to micromanage them after that, that once those items on A1, LPGA
Boulevard and A2 address flooding and runoff water quality underneath infrastructure enhancements, everything else could be addressed after that, but those had to be addressed first. So I just I respectfully disagree with that. I'm sorry. I I get I mean you you have the votes but I just want to see the language and let it be seen in front of
everybody in the public what the exact language is and we didn't vote for that language. I I get it. You know I mean just it's procedural and I think it's cleaner on voting on the exact language and and maybe Matt I think to what you just said there probably been I'm certain there have been instances that
we probably should have applied a similar standard in my opinion. Um and but no one's ever brought it up. I did today. All right. Um, and I think we should get into the practice. If we're going to amend something from what was
proposed, we should be very specific in the language, strike through, insert, um, and then vote on what the inserted or strike through language is. I think procedurally is cleaner. I, you know, I'm trying to sound more of a parliamentarian. I I get
that. But I just think it's cleaner for everybody to have a a very clear process and there's no timeline on this. There's no there's no urgency for today. We can vote on this in two weeks with the with the proper language. Right. And and chairman, if you if you I appreciate the
latitude you've given Mr. Santiago and myself, thank you for that. And council, thank you for not piping in and saying, you know, we're done with this. Let's move on. Um and Mr. Santiago, without saying insert and strike, I think that's what we just did
when we said you must do priority one A and then the second priority A2. Um to me, without saying the word insert, that's what we said, insert. Those those must be addressed first. That's how I that's how I took
it. Um I think we're there. I think it was a it was a 4 to2 vote and I I don't think it needs to come back. I think we've we've let staff know where we are. We've let Holly Hill know where we are. I don't think there's any question marks on what the expectation is. If I may,
Mr. Chairman, I know this is good debate though. One more and then I'll wrap it up. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know what you said in the insert, but there's still other language in that resolution that we did not make it clear as to what we were going to remove or
just additional language also has to be added. So, I'm talking about a clean version. In in theory, what you said is accurate, right? But in technicality, I don't think it reflects uh proper parliamentary procedure for um voting on
a uh language. So, I love that you said you liked what I said in theory. I'm I'm going to stop your thoughts after that. Your comments after that, I did not hear. Thank you. I just have a request for the the attorney, David. I I happen to think that you're right because I'm looking at it right here and there's a
lot listed here that's not um infrastructure. Um um so I'll just I move, Mr. Chairman, that we bring the language back before the council at the next commission meeting. Yeah, I was going to ask the attorneys if we're going to see the
language eventually or somebody is, but I I would like to see it even if it doesn't come back for a vote because I'm really interested now and seeing what is because it seems kind of subjective to me what will be pulled out and used and what's if there's still uh landscaping
and I just need a second to bring it back for us to vote on. You made a motion to bring up the exact language back. Correct. For adoption. Is there a second that language? And Mr. Chairman, not here in a second.
I think it's dead. I thought we were going to be done by two o'clock today. Chair, let's make a vote on it. It's uh I I'll make the second. It's the vote's going to fail, but um the the motion on the floor is to
bring the language back at the next meeting for the final approval. Uh motion by David Santiago, second by uh Chairman Brower. Um all in any comments on
that? I'll you think I got to call the role? No, he can make this. I didn't make them. No, no, I'm saying. Okay, Chrisa, call the role. Do you want the the vote is do you want to bring this back the language? Mr. Robbins?
No. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Johansson? No. Mr. Kent? Yes. No. Mr. Reinhardt? No. Mr. Brower. Yes. And the vote remains the the same four to
two. So the uh I still would like to see the language when you get it done. Please send that to the all the council members. Not for a vote, just for our own use. Okay. Item
four is a quasi judicial hearing on a proposed vacation uh of a portion of Plat West Highland subdivision. Not that kind of vacation.
So be before you start, I'll ask if there's uh anyone has any exparte to declare on item four. And we have none for you, David
Santiago. Any exparte to declare? And you're serious. You're moving to approve item four. Yes, sir. Okay. Go Hansen. And second was by Councilman Johansson. I love vacations.
Motion by Santiago. What did they motion? The approval of a vacation of uh portions of the 25 foot alleyway associated with block 113 down in West Highlands. Okay. Any questions on that?
Any comments? All in favor say I. I. Any against? Motion carries six to zero. Troy was right there. Okay. So, we'll get his vote when he
comes back. Right now, it's it's five to was was unanimous with the people sitting here. Item five, uh, is another quasi judicial hearing, another proposed vacation. Is there any exparte to declare on that by
anyone? Um, go ahead, sir. Yes, sir. Uh, Tad Gase, county engineer. Uh, just like the previous, this is down in the West Highlands again. 25 foot alleyways is what we're seeking to vacate. This is in block eight. Motion to approve. Second. Have a motion to approve by Vice Chair
Reinhardt. Second was uh by Councilman Robbins and Councilman Robbins uh for questions or comment. None. Anyone? Okay, we're short. Mr.
Um, all in favor of this vacation say I. I. Any opposed? And it's five to zero. We'll get two votes for him when he comes back. Item six is al also quasi jud judicial. Is there any exparte to
declare on this vacation? Okay. All right. Again, Kpir County Engineer. This is a vacation in the Grand View subdivision. This is uh located uh in the Orange City area on the west side of 472. We're vacating some road sections
in between parcels to allow property under. Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve by Councilman Robbins. Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Questions? All in favor say I. I. Any
opposed? Vacation passes. Five to zero. Item seven. Any exparte on this vacation? Motion to approve. Apparently not. And we have a motion to approve by Councilman
Robbins and a second by Jake Johansson. What is this vacation? So this is up in the Deleon Springs area just east of the uh CSX railroad near Pon Staleon Park. It's just vacating some road rights of way to allow property owner to uh to
utilize the property. Okay, any questions? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And that carries six to zero. Uh before we move on, Mr. Kent, what is your vote on uh item six, the Grand
View? Uh yes. So that vote ended up six to zero. And on item five, the West Highlands vacation. Thank you. I appreciate that. Chairman again. Yes. And that is six to zero. Was that
uh were you here for item four? Item four, the vacation also of West Highlands again. Yes. Okay. So all of those pass uh six to zero. Which brings us to item eight.
Um, also a quasi judicial hearing. Um, give us some background on this and then I'll ask if there's any exparte. Good morning, Claire. I'm director of growth and resource management. This is a special exception for 190 foot 5- foot
tall uh communication tower. Uh, communication towers are treated as special exceptions in basically all of our zoning districts where they exceed 70 feet in height. This one is located at 2665 Vulco Road near Edgewater. The
subject property has a zoning of A1. Uh, this was presented to your planning and land development regulation commission for review as well. There was a public hearing. We have received concerns and uh requests for denial by
adjacent property owners who are concerned about the tower being located on the subject property. Here gives an idea of the location map and our aerial showing the uh um first of all the subject property and then those that are surrounding it. This gives you an idea
of the zoning and future land use. So they are consistent with an A1 zoning and an agricultural resource land use. This gives you the concepts plan that was submitted in support of the special exception. Um again uh we have very
specific criteria as they apply to communication towers. Uh we require that there's a discussion about whether or not colllocation is feasible. Are there alternatives other than the location that is there? There is a requirement that the a RF engineer radio frequency
engineer be able to provide sufficient uh evidence that u this is necessary for effective use of the communications. This gives you an idea of what's going on in regards to the location of the uh tower on the site and
the areas that they're at. One of the major issues that were identified by staff in the pre-application and subsequent processing of the special exception is that the tower itself did not meet the minimum 1,000 ft separation requirements. The Planning and Land
Development Regulation Commission reviewed a uh concurrent application for a variance to that thousand foot separation. This uh image reflects that there's an existing home on an adjacent property which is not going to be within
or it's closer than the thousand feet. So there was a necessity for a variance. The um the planning and land development regulation commission recommended approval of the variance subject to the approval of the special exception and
also recommended unanimous unanimously for the approval of the communication tower. um concerns were identified in regards to property values, health concerns, aesthetics, safety concerns uh for air
traffic and livestock. Um Mr. Sorya can further elaborate on what can and cannot be admissible uh based on federal regulations and requirements. Uh just real quickly is that health items and those types of things have been
identified as non-starters in regards to objections. The primary focus would be impact on property values and those types of things. Even with all this information, the planning and land development recoming land development regulation commission still recommended approval 50
back at the March meeting. This does include the waiver and as you can see the uh location of the tower here are the conditions that were identified and it was again approved
with staff conditions. If there's any questions for staff I am available. We also have staff from the planning and development services staff available. Um and the applicant is here to address any questions that you may have. Councilman Robbins, did you have a question? Uh yes
sir and also qu um disclosure I spoke to uh representation for the applicant also spoke to about a half a dozen uh residents and I have a question for uh Mr. Irvin. Okay, since you did that your exarte
anyone else have to declare on this item? I do. I spoke with the uh applicant's attorney. Okay. None else. Okay. Go ahead. Servin uh you had uh mentioned there's very specific criteria uh for this hence the need for
a variance uh one of those criteria is 1,000 ft uh from a residence. Why is that? Again it was put in place back um when there was beginning of the proliferation of towers uh I would say mid 90s is when that was beginning and
the main thing was the concept of a fall space. So if a tower collapsed, would there be sufficient room to address the issues if that was in place? And so u we have seen similar applications come
forward where variance was requested and was granted by the planning land development regulation commission subject to approval of the special exception. With that being said, um what other examp do we have any other examples of which ones are approved and why hasn't this been updated so we
wouldn't have to it's basic it's one of the standards that we've had um candidly uh it's not been major issue ex and where we have seen situations where we've been able to grant variances it's
a in those confines if the council wants us to go back and reook at our uh special exception criteria for communication towers, we'll be glad to do so. And and Clay is wasn't necessarily busting on you, but it kind of puts for instance uh myself or the
council these rules are in place for a reason. We obviously we can't mention safety, but if the thing if the joker falls, it's pretty unsafe. Uh not saying that's the basis of my decision. Uh but but at the end of the day though, um if
if we have criteria, I'm trying to figure out why staff um and in the board recommended approval if it's not meeting the criteria. I need to know. Understood. And again, the criteria was based uh you bring up a
good point. there may be a necessity to update the standards of the thousand foot separation because again uh back in the 90s when many of the towers were coming in they were uh in excess of 300 ft in height and so what you're seeing now that there has been changes at a
federal level which allows for smaller towers within right ofways and so therefore there m may be a need to update that standard. It was basically a factor of safety that was identified. I can tell you that we were working on similar regulations when I was in in the
mid 90s at Orman Beach. I think what you're seeing is that there's a a consistency of this throughout where uh again it was put in place as a a safety factor and that you know the variances have uh been the mechanism to
allowing it to occur where it's deemed appropriate. Thank you. Uh thank you Clay. Uh, I'll wait till I make a statement. Councilman Johansson Clay, back to the thousand. I
guess this is I'll forego my question, but let's come back to the thousand feet later. I'm I'm not going to I'll comment. Okay. Any other questions for
the the real the reason we're here is because the difference of 748 feet and 1,000 ft. No sir, it's a special exception. The variance has already been approved. If you subject to approval of the special exception, if you approve
the special exception, then the variance to the thousand ft is already in place. If you deny the special exception, then all of it goes away. Okay. Um, was there evidence, any evidence presented on how this affects property
values? Uh, I'll allow the applicant, they have information tied to that right now. So, the applicant has provided that to us via email and there's now written comments or excuse me, written copies of
the variant or excuse me, appraisals. So I and this that we were given this morning. No. Oh, okay. Um, no other questions from council. You're going to do a presentation.
I'm sorry. I got to clarify. I made a mistake. There was not quote unquote a variance. There was part of the condition was granting a waiver to the 700, right, to the,000 feet. I do apologize. I did not mean to mislead the council. You are as part of this if you
approve the special exception, you're approving the de facto reduction in from a,000 ft. I apologize for the confusion. Okay. And you had planned on the applicant making the presentation. Yes,
sir. You're welcome to go in. And and I will try to keep it brief. Uh Joey Posey, 420 South Nova, attorney for the applicant. And uh just to touch on some things that may have occurred at PLDRC, uh uh you know, the post that meeting uh we met with the neighbors, you know, and tried to really just be
good neighbors and work out concerns. Of course, you know, it's going to be maybe a difference of opinion about certain things, but um you know, we wanted to do our due diligence and assure them that the things that they were worried about were not occurring. uh the package you received uh there's actually a full appraisal um with comparable cell tower
locations their proximity to other residential areas and the the appraiser is here to speak to this but his conclusion is his findings were there's no change there is no impact to property values uh the other thing that is also in your packet is a um coverage mapping
and all and we have the actual experts from Verizon and Dish to speak to that that will also come up here too to speak briefly And the need is there. The maps make it it's very easily delineated on the maps that there's a big gap in coverage that uh would be uh otherwise
utilized for by this tower and the need is there. Uh the to the fall zone that's and Clay I think summarized it correctly that you know how towers were once constructed that the thousand foot made some sense. Um, you know, in this case, we wanted to make sure we went above and beyond and we actually had an engineer
certify that the fall radius of this tower is only 95 ft. So, um, again, we've alleviated concerns. I, you know, I understand the neighbors and their perspective about just the nature of a tower. Uh, you know, at each step, we've
tried to address those concerns. The other thing you'll find in the packet is the um, uh, the visual buffer. We actually went out and we took aerials uh of elevations of how this would look in the vegetation. There's only one direction and you can barely see the height of the top of this tower. Uh in
all other directions, it's uh it's hidden. So, um again, that doesn't speak to the nature of their objections regarding the use, but um you know, as I try to remind them that an tower is approved by is an approved use by right
and it's a permitted use if it's under 70 ft. you know, its use and its nature is allowed there. And I think as the chair had indicated, uh, you know, today we're really talking about height and the waiver of the separation. You know, the nature of the tower being there is already a non-starter since it's a it's
allowed by permitted use. Uh so other than that, I I really just wanted to introduce the consultants and uh you know, maybe have Jonathan Yates speak to briefly uh regarding any specific concerns or at least assure folks that are here that you know, we we're we're
here to try to alleviate and to address um issues as they arise. And we've done our due diligence and we're trying to be good neighbors, too. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, members of the council, my name is Jonathan Yates, 105 Broad Street, Charleston, South
Carolina, Tower Cop. Um, what I'd like to first do, um, is thank right there, uh, Kristen. Uh, during the process of this application, I asked a total of 85 stupid questions.
She never laughed at me. She always got me through it. You have a great team there, and we thank you. The meat of the matter is property values. We've been able to meet some nice folks during this process. I don't know if they like me or not, but I like them. What I'd like to
do now is introduce Dave Reed of Reed Appraisal. He's done some work and he's going to run it by it. Thank you. Good morning. I'm Dave Reid, a real estate state certified general real estate appraiser and a designated member of the appraisal institute. I have an
office in New Summer Beach and I was engaged to conduct an impact study to develop an opinion as to whether or not the proposed 195 ft monopole cell tower on the property located at 2665 Vulco Road in Edgewater will affect the market
values of adjacent or nearby properties for residential uses. Based on research in Valia County and application of sales comparison approach methods, it is my opinion that the proposed cell tower will not have an impact on the market values of adjacent or and/or nearby
properties for residential uses. The basic concept of this impact study was to compare sales of similar properties that are within the area of influence of cell towers to those that are not. These comparisons are done to isolate the effects, if any, of cell tower
influence. My impact study presents four study areas with a total of six components, including sales of vacant rural rural residential sites or small acreage and existing residences. For each component, there is no effect on the sale prices or values
of the comparable sale properties within the area areas of influence of a sale tower versus those that are not. I'm going to provide a brief summary of the study areas and their indications. The first study area is a rural residential area along
and near South Glen Co and New Simra Beach. This is east of I95, south of State Road 44 and west of Old Mission Road. The study tower is a guide style with an overall height of 237 ft that was built in 1987. This study area has two
components. The four land the four land sales consist of sale one which is adjacent to the tower property and sales of the next three parcels to the south fronting Gleno Road. The tower was of no concern at all to the buyers of the sale one
property who subsequently built a home in 2018 within 325 ft of the tower along with a pool and a detached garage/barn. The improved residential sales consists of sale one which was adjacent
to the tower property with the sale two and sale three being slightly one over over one half mile to the north within the area of influence of the sale tower. That tower is highly visible from the yard area of sale one in the center of the residence built in 1990 is about 500 ft from the
tower. The second is a rural residential area off of Martins Derry Road, New Simra Beach. This is a guide style tower with a overall height of 248 ft. that was built in 1997. The tower is at the entrance to a private neighborhood and is significantly visible from all the
rural residential lots within this development. The uh land sales and improved sales were concerned. The most significant indications aside from the indications from the sales showing there's not an impact were that I discussed with the wife of the buyers of one of the sales which is adjacent to
the tower site and it was purchased for construction of the res residence revealed that she was initially very concerned about the tower but her husband was not at all. After conducting research, she determined that the cell tower was no longer of concern. And then the buyer of the sale
one residence which was in that development said that she did not care about the tower at all and that it had no impact on her decision to purchase a property or the price paid. The third study area is the Edgewater Lake subdivision in off of US1
in Edgewater. And just to cut to the chase on that one, I analyzed 47 sales over the uh ultimate sellout and buildout of that subdivision and there's no impact. The southern portion of the subdivision is extremely visible to the tower. As you get to the central part,
it's less visible. The northeast part, you can't see it at all. And there's no differentiation in the sale prices per square foot of those sales. And then I did a similar analysis up in the Halifax plantation residential and golf course space development Orman Beach. And that
study had 10 sales, three with tower influence that had pools, three sales, one with tower influence that did not have pools. Same no discernable effect on the sale price per square foot. And interviews with uh people that are in
inspection that study area reflected the same. They had no impact on their purchase decision. you have any questions? And and the next uh speaker is going to speak to the uh the coverage need. Chairman, really quickly, what happened
to the time? The time was going down and now it's like back up to 11 something. I'm in a rush. I saw Joey I saw Joey playing with something. Mr. Kent, they technically get 20 minutes for presentation. It started at 10 and and we're we will keep this brief.
It started at 10. Yes, sir. The clock started at 10. So, it was just reset to give them they had gone eight minutes. I respout of Verizon Wireless and he's going to tell you the why. Uh good morning everyone. Uh this is Amitra. Uh Visan RF engineer. Uh my
address is 7701 East Telecom Parkway Temple Terrace, Florida 33637. Uh there is a need case for this site. Uh the neighbor the neighboring site. Can you the slide please? You don't have Okay. Okay.
That's fine. Oh yeah. So the existing side that you see in this uh presentation is all like uh that's not mine. This is mine. I always have a backup. Oh
yeah. Thank you. the exist the existing neighbor cell of uh Crown Edgewater uh Jeffrey they're all like you know uh they are all capacity limited and all as well as coverage limited so we need
this uh site hunt club 95 to cover the uh you know the our I95 uh uh the poor coverage at I95 and uh the surrounding areas and as you can see the pre and post uh map uh propagation channel that
map that we produced here uh how it fills up the coverage around 995 and the surrounding uh areas and unfortunately I don't see anything to colllocate uh that uh so we need this site to be you know uh built as a new uh as a new monopol in
in uh in that particular area and this is the only location that has been provided to us uh to build a site and uh uh we accepted this that candidate and uh planning to build a uh tower on that on that particular location and uh
provide our uh 4G and 5G coverage around I95 and the surroundings. Thank you. Thank you so much. And Amir will be here if there's questions later. I'd like to now introduce Yogi Sinani of Dish Boost
Wireless. Tell us why you need this. Good morning everyone. Uh this is Yogender Surupani. I'm from Boost Wireless and my address is 2840 Hilltop Road, Claremont. Um so similar to my colleague from Verizon, uh we also have
a coverage gap on I95 um like about 4 miles um and uh the only location that was provided to us was this particular location. And uh to be able to cover I95 and the surrounding area as well, we'll need this tower. Um there's about like
33,000 daily trips that happen on this section of the N95. And as you can imagine without coverage it can I mean it can lead to some drop calls. So uh that's the reason why we need a tower over here. Thank you.
And uh just briefly to summarize. So it's it's clear there's a need uh you know in terms of use we're talking about the SA tower's height and the waiver in respects to the distance which uh we've provided certified engineered uh uh fall
zone that it is within a 95 ft radius. It has no safety implications to adjoining owners. Um, you know, other than that, you know, I I would expect this to be important for you, emergency services and and the like given all of the disasters that we've been having to deal with, um, that I hope are not more
common than they should be. But, uh, we're here available for any questions. I mean, we have all the experts available. you have all the supporting information in terms of appraisals, in terms of engineers, and how they've certified the uh safety of this the pole, its location, and uh other than
that, we we're available for questions and happy to uh address any concerns. Okay. Thank you very much. Uh Jake Johansson, did you have questions? No. David Santiago, is he in the room? No. Okay. I
don't know if he had question or uh so Jake why don't you did you have a question or go ahead Jake sir um uh couple couple comments number one you can't you can't
give this to me while you're talking and expect me to do anything with it other than throw it out right so try to get that stuff to just uh when it's more than two pages uh before the the day of the meeting.
Um number two uh in in my comment about the th00and ft clay um I would I would love for your team to come up with the National Association of tower Engineers or whatever the heck those people
are and find out what that thousand should be. Um, and and maybe it depends on aesthetics. Maybe it I I don't want one in my backyard if I have five acres of backyard. But then again, may maybe I want to lease that 5
acres of backyard and make some money. Um, I'm glad we didn't talk about the um the the radio waves infecting my brain because we all hold a cell phone up to our brain or have some other electronic
device up to our uh head most of the time. Um, the other thing that I think's important to me is um rural connectivity. We spend hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars in Florida trying to get rural connectivity
and and I'm thinking as a traveler going down I95 saying I got to call you back. I'm in the dead zone, but there's people living there that live in the dead zone. So I I think this is advantageous uh in the rural environment. So, uh I'm
I'm very supportive of this and and uh um gravel versus I I don't care about the road piece, but the uh uh I really want to narrow down that thousand ft or or come up with a good reason why it should be a,000 ft in some cases and and
less than other. But I've never seen a a tower leap four times its height to hit a house, even in a windstorm. So, thank you. Anyone else have questions, comments? We do have members of the public that want
to speak on this. Um, Mike Bennett, you have uh three minutes to speak to us. Dear chairman and members of the council, please accept a correspondence related to this application for the variance for the Valuchia County Land
Development Code LDC SC25006. My name is Mike Bennett, the the owner of property located at 2625 Vulco Road in Edgewater. I have an exhibit A. I don't
know if you can see those. Uh as a property directly adjacent to the proposed variant site attached as ex Exhibit
B. As a property owner and neighbor, I have serious concerns regarding the approval of this variance request. Additionally, pursuance of section 2-63F of Valuchia County Code of
Ordinance. I am a member of the public who will be affected if the appro approved proposed variance is adopted by council. Given that his is a
quas judicial proceeding, all decisions of council on this matter must be based on competent substantial evidence. According accordingly the the council
decision must be based on revalent evidence evidence that reasonable person would accept as adequate to support a conclusion and must relate to the merits of this
application. This may include the factual testimony of lay witnesses and the opinion of testimonial of experts. I am here today to provide lay
testimonial as to how the council's decision will material materially affect the not only my property rights but the ability to build, convey, sell, and
develop my property. The various request previously adopts the county's planning and land development regulation commissions indicated that there are several
deviations that the applicant is requesting from the county land development code. Mike, you you've used all your time to uh to tell us about the quasi judicial hearing.
Um how how much time do you need to get to make your point of well in a nutshell that that tower is going to topple has the potential to topple onto
my property which I'm trying to build on. I'm I'm about to retire. I want to come down to Florida, build my home there that I've already purchased the land for, and these guys are
impeding on my property rights. Okay. Now, I'm sorry, but I I have to stick with the time. Um Okay. But let me point this out because I am an affected land owner. You are. So we have given
them options to build this tower in in the same area that is not going to affect all of us land owners. Okay. And I think that should be looked at. I mean not just give them
the green light to stick it right in amongst all of us in there. I'm sorry, but I got to stick with the time for you've got three other neighbors that want to speak. Maybe they'll cover that as well. Um Oh, thank you very much for coming
in. We we get your point. All right. Well, thank you. Yes, sir. Robert Brown. Hello, my name is Robert Brown. I live at 2695 Vulkar Road. I am the property due west of that. I think Mike's point was he's the property due east of it.
So, Terror will be almost right on his property line. He's only 330 by 660 is 5 acres. He may not be able to build on it. There's another gentleman who could not be here. He retires in nine days, eight days now. He's directly south. he couldn't get a thousand feet away from
the tower if he wanted to. And are they going to get a sub special exception or not? They were given. And I also offered them I have another 5 acre piece of property about 1500 ft down Lingo Grove Road which is right across the street. I gave the offer to explore that
opportunity and me sitting on my back porch in the morning watching my horses to the north watching the sunrise to the east. I'll be looking at a sightly tower and and I know we're not allowed to talk about the health benefits, but I think they're real. It's just my opinion. You can't talk about it. I can, but uh I'm
just against it. And I gave them alternatives. And there's two other people that also gave them alternatives to relocate this tower. Not to be on the main road, not to be unsightly. They're saying it's not unsightly. It's only sightly by one side. It's a welltraveled road. We live in the woods for a reason. It's called the hammocks. We want to
look like that. The cell tower is going to be unsightly and way too close to Mike's property and way too close to Mass Property to the south. Mike is what he was trying to say is he's due east. He's coming down from Michigan to retire to build there. Matt retires very soon, 8
days. He's going to build right across the street. So if the thousand ft isn't play, neither one of them will be able to use their property. That's that's the point of that he was trying to make. He was try couldn't sum it up, but I can. Thank you. And I'm the one within 748
ft. That's to my house to my property line's 500 ft and I have horses right on our property line. So just I don't know. It's all I have to say. I'm against it. I think it looks ugly. And we have other alternatives we have offered them. Just Thursday. We just
met. I offered them and two other people did as well. Thank you. Thank you very much for your comments. It's uh Greg uh Petsac, is it you tell us your last name when you get up here and um y'all don't have to give your exact
address. Uh Greg, I believe you're in Edgewater. Yes. Uh Greg Pets. I live at 4721 Lingo Grove Road and my property uh I got 20 21 acres there. So part of my property is on uh Lingo and Vulco Road
there. So, it's going to be right across from where this tower is going. Um, you know, we we have fine cell phone service out there. I mean, their map showed, you know, but I pulled it up on the internet and I mean, we all got 5G out there in
the middle of the St. John's swamp out there. It might be 4G. And who's out there roaming around in that with wood chucks and raccoons and that? But, um, you know, this going right here, it's it's going to sit right on top of everybody's property. My son wants to
build up on my front five, which is going to be right across, you know, the street from this. Um, Mike Bennett to is across from there. It's going to be sitting right on top of him. Mike Matt Victorelli who's on he's on the corner of Lingo and Vulco. You know, he's just
retired from the Valuchia County school system. His plan was, you know, was to build right there. You know, um, you know, this there's other options for the cell phone tower. I mean, if the dead spots out on 95, you got the Dear Park going in, but put it over that way, you
know, put it where the problem is, you know? So, I mean, that's my line on it. I don't I don't want it near me at all. So, thank you. Thank you. uh Web Madison on on all the property on the
north boundary of this property and I'm going to build a house or was planning on building a house there and it would be about 300 feet from where I proposed to put my house. I have 35 acres right there. I offered them to the back northwest corner they could put the tower there be 2,000 square feet or 2,000 ft from anybody else's property.
Wouldn't be where near anyone. So, I offered that to them and I don't say I don't want to build a nice house and have a tower 190 foot tower sitting in my backyard. That's all. Appreciate it. Thank you for coming in.
Uh Mr. Paulo, anything you need to tell us about uh we are allowed to consider evidence that has previously been presented. So the only the only thing I would say is um everyone already talked about it. So
federal law prohibits uh the consideration of the environmental effects of radio frequency transmission. So um there are a few other things you know all your decisions need to be based on common substantial evidence. Any evidence on property values needs to be
you know provided by kind of an expert. Um uh any aesthetic value concerns also needs to be based on comp substantial evidence um which is not you know a general statement of uh it's an isore you know without you know uh factual
evidence to to demonstrate why it's an isore um doesn't rise to the level of substantial evidence. Um I just kind of want to focus um on the thousand foot separation. So that's a criteria for a
tower application. So it's 1,000 ft from any residential structure. The county council may wave it but cannot wave it to to uh closer than 500 ft. Um so you know then and in that consideration
there's some indic uh some federal law provision. So, federal f the federal law, it's the same statute, 47USC 332, says that um you you can't use the zoning and land use authority to prohibit or have the effect of
prohibiting the provision of personal wireless service. And what that means is that you can't use your use your rules to deny someone from being able to make a call. It doesn't rise to the level of they don't need the best service. they don't need to, you know, stream, you
know, 10 YouTube videos at the same time. It's all about making that that phone call. Um, so there's there's kind of a test involved. It's basically, you know, they have to identify is there a significant gap in coverage and two, uh, is this is a proposed tower location the
least intrusive means of kind of filling that that coverage gap. Um, so that's kind of the things for consideration. Uh also you know the uh the applicant does have the rebuttal ability to address any of the concerns. Before that have there
you may have three other questions here. What what about uh the we we were just told there was alternate locations available. Did that come up at PLDRC? Um I think they did a an analysis of what
sites they approached. I'm not sure at that time during the PLDRC there was indication that there you know some of the property owners were not interested but I'll let the applicant kind of fill that out. They did provide a um an tower
analysis on their ability to colllocate on you know on already existing towers to not have to build a new one. Um, and I think their report says that the collocations are like 2.7 miles and 3 point something miles away wouldn't
serve uh wouldn't provide the the required coverage. Okay. Don't don't go away. Uh, Councilman Santiago. Yeah. Are you aware of in the last I don't know last five hurricanes, I don't know if you can answer this. Did any
cell towers fall in Florida? I know we're we are having to accommodate a cell. I think that went down from a fire. Um usually wind. Yeah. Uh I'm I I that's something beyond my knowledge. Gotcha. If you're not aware
If you're not aware, you're not aware. Okay. I don't know if any staffers aware of any cell towers falling in the hurricanes. They're usually built to I'm looking at George. George is not aware of any. Okay. I'm just trying to I think we might have had a piece of somewhere along the line. I think a piece or two
have come off, but I don't know of any time a tower itself has fallen on a hurricane. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Johansson. A quick question for Paulo. I think he answered it, but I want to make sure. Um, we
can't decrease the range less than 500 ft. That's correct. Is that's fedally mandated? No, that is that is your code. Our code. Our code. Your code says um 1,000 ft from residential structures. The county
council can decrease that but no less than 500 ft unless we change the code. Yes. All right. Thank you. Councilman Robbins uh like to make a motion to deny request for 195 ft tower at 2665 Vocal Road. Motion to deny the
request. Correct. Okay. Is there a uh Mr. question on that. We uh the applicant should get a rebuttal before any motions are made. Okay, hold that hold that thought. Go
ahead. Go to uh good morning again, Joey Posie for 20 South Nova. I just wanted to address a few things I heard um just uh from the neighbors. Uh uh the the the alternative locations actually was something that was brought up last Thursday. Um that was not something we were engaged in before then. Um, you
know, again, it's uh I can't speak to necessarily Mr. Yates, but uh again, that was something that has come up as of late, and I imagine that anytime you get close to an approval, there will be alternative locations. And I I can't speak to the feasibility. I can't speak to the suitability, and I can't speak to
any other neighbors that may be impacted in that way that we may be here again to talk about. So, um, just want to make sure that's on the record. Uh, the fall zone was 95 ft. I think I'd uh just to correct a neighbor and uh I was talking to the consultant here and uh Sumpter County for instance actually has a
requirement that's uh set back half of the uh tower height. So that is maybe something for food for thought. Uh the uh uh the other mentions were there's a huge significant gap in coverage. You can see it from the mapping. I mean I can't you know if T-Mobile works out
there I you know I don't live out there. I don't want to say he's wrong, but uh you know the mapping shows there's a true need and uh this tower is rated for uh in excess of 140 mph. So uh you know again that's an engineers uh certification to the safety of the tower and uh just want to make sure those
points are on the record and uh with that uh we're still available for questions. Um Mr. Robbins, did you still want to make a a motion so that we can discuss it? It stands. Okay. Okay. Is there a second on uh Councilman Robbins motion
to deny? Yes. I want to second it for so we can have a discussion about that. Motion is seconded by uh Joy Kent. Motion to deny by uh Councilman Robbins and uh Jake Johansson. Yes. Uh question the
applicant uh if I may. Um so you got these proposals for alternatives last Thursday, correct? Um, are you willing to take a step back and and and talk to these folks about those alternatives? Well, we'll talk to them. I would uh
maybe hesitate to say yes, but you know that my my issue that I think I'm going to have moving forward is is that there's obviously cost and expense and studies that have occurred to get to this point. And I don't want to this become a uh a moving to goalpost type situation where uh you know all of a
sudden we you explore these opportunities and they fall apart for whatever reason or whatever um the whims of whatever neighbors may become involved as part of those discussions. Sure. So so this is a a lease, correct? Correct.
I'm looking for a win-win here. if they're if they're so adamant that that you move it somewhere and they have right and and I'm sorry I'll let you finish. No, if if they're so adamant that they don't want it where you want
it and they have options on their own property, maybe they're willing to do it without the lease to move it to get their way where you don't have to pay anything or very small uh lease amount. And that will tell me that they're not motivated
by money as much as they're motivated by what they truly just said. And and it may be a win-win if you take the time. uh if you don't have the time then I understand moving forward too and part of it is both time a commitment to the current neighbor and we would have to
come back through the exact process we just went through that it's a full-blown re restudying the property to get to that point and I you know I I don't want to say that the neighbors they're very nice people and they've you know they want to do the right thing but the
opportunities to have these discussions I you know I hesitate to say having them in council chambers at the 11th hour. Um, you know, I I'd love to continue that dialogue. I just don't want to take away the opportunity we have today to backtrack to have those discussions when
those discussions can still be had. There's nothing stopping us from still having those discussions after Councilman Robbins. Mr. Posey. Um, thank you. And and and I understand, you know, and I know we have perimeters which we have to
um um stay in, you know, limitations uh in terms of making decision what we have to stay in. How I'm looking at this is is we have a specific criteria for towers and uh on the surface here it doesn't necessarily meet that. Um and
also too once we agree on this um it's essentially a contract. It's a decision. So to me and on the business end of things there is no going back. So um that's where I we're having later
discussions once we vote on this and approve this. That's what makes these these this kind of hard. I have to stay in these boundaries. So, I'm not going to uh talk about anything else, but I believe there's some valid concerns here. I I know you've done your best to address
them, but uh uh I I still think that uh we have these criteria in in place for a reason, and if they need to be changed, we need to change them, figure out why. Uh and if we have to come back, we have to come back. But as it stands right now, I I'm going to have trouble with
this one. So, all right. Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this is a question for for staff Paulo. Help me understand the council.
Possibly there there was testimony from a gentleman who presented himself, you know, as as a lay person giving his testimony and then we had some expert testimony too on value of land and I think there's some testimony on on on capabilities of
the tower uh as far as structure um and benefit to the community. And then we also talked about uh competent substantial evidence. Yes. Right. Are we still held to that standard or is just like I don't want to see a tower does does let me ask you a
little simple. Does I don't want to see a tower qualify as competent substantial evidence under our rules and law is not that you need more. I don't want to see a tower because violates some kind of policy or
or code or, you know, has a there's evidence that it negatively affects aesthetics, negatively affects property values. Um, you have to relate it somehow. Yeah. That that falls under the general and and that's what we're here
to consider in our decision-m. You are here to consider a tower application under using comp substantial evidence on the record. Okay, thank you for wrapping that up nicely. You know, as as much as I I understand the the public's point,
as a purist in the in the rule of law, um we've been we've been very clearly defined that competent substantial evidence has to apply on this. Um reason I asked the qualifying questions is um in the event that it doesn't fail,
excuse me, if it doesn't pass um unless we can someone can clearly determine what competent substantial evidence was presented against it and we were told very clearly from our attorney not seeing a tower does not qualify property
values. We've had a uh professional u appraiser come and give us comps and all of the the things that go along with it. Um and nothing's been countered presented to counter that in substit competent evidence getting into the
words. So um we don't pass this. We lose regardless. You may have a win today, but in the event that they challenge it, you still lose. And the county loses and the county loses
um time and resources spent to try to defend something that nothing's been presented um with competent statual evidence. Um gentlemen, I this I think we have to approve this the greater good for the community in the access that they will get for this as far as
communications. um is is strong for me. Um and unfortunately, no substantial competent evidence is presented to deny the application. And I know some may not like it, but it's the rule of law and um
that's our job when we hold up our hand and when we swear to office is to hold the rule of law for everyone equally. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Uh Paulo or or Mr. Brown? Paula, you your handle on this one is um this is a
we're here because this is a special exception. The law says a,000 ft. This allows 748 ft. Is that not competent and substantial evidence? So that it does not so the request is that the the
current standard is towers are must be located 1,000 ft from residential dwellings. county council can reduce that but to no more than 500 fe the kind of kind of no further guidance. So that's why I went into okay um you know
what is the purpose of that thousand thousand foot it was set back in the 90s everyone was just kind of doing the same thing. Um, so the the when you are considering that type of criteria, granting a waiver, granting a variance, there there
are federal cases that address that and you cannot use your um zoning authority um if it prohibits or has the effect proh prohibiting the provision of personal wireless services. And to do that, there was a de there's a two-part
demonstration in other circuits. It's probably going to be adopted here. First uh the provider must prove there is a significant gap in wireless services. Second the provider must show that is filling that gap in the least intrusive means. So that's that's the test on you
know when you apply these distance provisions or these setback provisions to the to a tower and when you're doing that it has the effect of prohibiting service in an identified area. So that's the comp substantial evidence to consider when determining whether to
grant that thousand foot waiver to 784. And there's been evidence, substantial evidence that has shown that there is a gap in service that this will fill. You are the ones who determine what the
evidence is. Um I will, you know, I interpret whether something is competent and substantial. You determine whether or not it's and I'll give you the standards. You are the factfinders. You determine whether or not that exists. Okay. Thank you. Um chairman, did you get your answer?
It wasn't very clear to me. I I want I was going to have the same question that you had about the thousand feet. Like I'm looking at number three and that's my wonder is the requirement for the tower to be no less than 1,000 ft. This is 748 to the nearest residential
structure is waved by the county council. Is that not enough reason right there? Number three, I I don't know that I heard an answer is where I'm he said we could change it. Um right. Um so when you say the reason is is you can you can
you can deny a tower application for failure to meet the thousand thousand foot. Um, okay. The the the only thing is that uh if you use a,000 ft and it has the effect of prohibiting service in
that area um by demonstrating that there's a significant gap of coverage and this is the least intrusive means. That is a legal vulnerability in the future for for whatever the decision as the outcome on this particular case.
Thank you. I I appreciate that. And I know that our our legal team is very conservative, but we're dealing with Mike Batten a thousand dire facts or facts. So you what what you just heard I
think is what you're thinking is we might be sued if we approve this. You don't have to answer that. Yeah. If we deny this. Yeah, I I at time and I am a huge
May I chairman? You are. I I um I'm a huge fan of of Paulo. I I am. Um it seems like sometimes at these quasi judicial hearings, the answer is not as uh clear
as I' I'd like to hear it. and and um you know I appreciate the conservative nature of you know if this happens then this can happen and um I I'm real interested into hear more about what Mr. Robbins says because this is his district and uh
his his concerns are are might line up with some of my concerns which was number three Councilman Robbins. Thank you Chair Paulo if I can bend you here for a minute. You mentioned uh criteria uh specific criteria uh in order to make uh
find the facts and make the decision. You mentioned aesthetics as one of them. Can you list the other criteria please that uh we can use to uh make this decision? Uh it well it's usually compliance with all the standards of the
um of the land development code. um if there are ev any evidence on aesthetics uh usually that's demonstrated by kind of a mockup of the tower or they do a balloon test. So they shoot a balloon all the way up to the height of the
tower and you know can you see it from there? If you can see that if you can see the balloon how does that uh how does that aesthetically fit into the overall policy goals of that area. So that's the confidence substantial evidence you would be looking for to make any decisions based on aesthetics.
Um the second one is property values kind of standard um demonstrating uh not just by supposition or fear but you need a usually an expert property appraiser real estate um person and they they base
their expert opinion on facts. you know, they've done comps, they've done analyses, that kind of thing. So, usually those are the three main categories of of evidence that you're looking for in cell towers. Uh meeting the criteria of the land development
code, aesthetics, property values. Thank you. Um, uh, council, this is my last, uh, bite at the apple, but I just want to bring attention to, uh, the number one thing that our our legal team had had just said, compliance with
standards. So, that's the basis for my motion for dial, and uh, I stick by that motion. Okay. Councilman Johansson, I Clay or somebody. I'm I'm trying to I'm looking at every piece of paper
handed to me. What's what's the distance from the tower to Mr. uh Psac's property uh line and uh Mr. Brown is it his prop the two that said it's going to be right
next to my house so I can't build 99 ft to the east and 748 ft to the house but roughly 500 feet to the property line. So again, the two property owners that were up here talking, the gentleman who spoke first, he's roughly 99 ft from the
tower to his property line to the property line and then roughly 500 ft to the west. Got it. So So to the property line and I I take it that does he have Well, it's Edgewater, so I wouldn't know, but but there's setbacks to the
property line, too. So he's his house can't be right. It It's zon A1, so you would have a 50 foot setback. Got it. So 150 150 feet, right? All right. Thank you. That's all I have. Thank you,
Councilman Santiago. Thank you. I'm I'm struggling here still to find the the nexus on how to vote on this, meaning possibly how to vote against it because the only
thing that I've heard because we're finders of fact. That's what our attorney told us. The only thing I've heard is not in my backyard. To kind of just really keep it simple, that's that's the only testimony we received. and I respect the folks that are not in
my backyard, but our role is a lot more important than that. Um, so if we try to take the person out of it, I don't think we we we subscribe to the not in my backyard theory um for
governance. Um, it's a scary path to go down. Um, as much as I probably wouldn't like this and I'd probably be sitting over there if if if it were me, but I I need somebody to give me something to for me to really and when I put my hand
on that and I make my my my my oath, give me something to really look in the mirror. I think you use those lines sometimes, Troy. You say, you know, when you look in the mirror, right, and say, "I voted the right way based on the oath I took and try to apply that equally to all." Um, I don't care if it's Verizon.
It could be anybody. Um, but it's it's it's it's the help if someone wants me to vote no, help me get competent, substantial evidence to say that this testimony we received was was worthy enough to
deny this request. And I don't haven't quite seen it yet. So, um, I know some might not like it, but I try to be a purist to keep be fair to everyone. Councilman Troy Kent. Thank Thank you, Chairman. And um I appreciate the time we're putting into this because we want
to we want to get this right for for all involved. I um I think about, you know, driving down 95 or I think about if I lived in that area and, you know, how frustrating it would be not to have service, you know, living there full-time and I also try to think about being um a property owner nearby. But uh
Mr. Santiago, you are um you're masterful at what you do and and I I'm always trying to take notes from from how you um present your your path forward here and and for me and and this may help you and your
response, not that I'm I'm trying to get a response from you, but your response will probably help me as well. But what about number three? The requirement of the tower to be no less than a,000 ft from residential structures. And we we see here 748 ft, but I think Clay just got up and spoke um and said it was 500
and some odd feet. How how do we get around that unless we as an elected body say, "Hey, we're we're okay with that." I if this was 1,000 ft away from a structure like it says, um I think it would be a slam dunk for me. You know, I
I do I just I need help with that one. So you you may be able to help me here either way. I don't know the answer to that, Mr. Chair. I have a little little that's what and maybe we need clarity on that on how we apply that decision-making. Okay, just to clarify the rules as they are written in chapter
72 under the specific criteria that apply to communication towers shall be a,000 ft but the council may and again you're correct it's a may wave that down to a minimum of 500 ft. So therefore,
what our code currently does is give our council the availability between 500 feet to a,000 ft if they believe that it's appropriate. And again, this is where again, Mr. K, Mr. Brower are
saying that it's not appropriate in this location to take it down to or Mr. Robbins, excuse me, under the thousand feet. So that's that's again a decision that the council has to make because they are the authorility to deviate from the minimum
thousand foot separation. Are there parameters around that may I'm sorry Mr. Chair are there parameters for us to consider that may part? That's where Paulo does that help. And and before Paulo, before you do that, Clay, before you walk away, I I'll just say, is it not enough that I call you best in the
business? You got always sound so smart up here quoting section 72 of whatever. I mean, like like stop reading this stuff at night. Right. So there there isn't criteria in the
code itself. And that's why I kind of went through. So it's legislative. Uh no, it's still quasi judicial. Um what you are what you are right kind of coralled by are is the federal law where
okay that thousand foot provision when you apply that does that have the does that prohibit or have the effect of prohibiting personal wireless service and then you know to the evidence for you to make that decision is the demonstration of one is there a
significant service gap two is this the least intrusive means of filling that service gap and that personal wireless service is the ability to make phone calls in the same way as a landlord. So that's the criteria. Can I speak to two clarifications? Uh yeah, apparently the council
really we're trying to dig into this and do the right thing. I I was just speaking to Clay and I wanted to make sure that Councilman uh Kent's uh comment was clarified that it's not a reciprocal thousand when it applies to neighboring properties. It's only an application for the cell tower
itself. So it doesn't otherwise restrict other property owners from utilizing their property. Uh the other thing I wanted to point out is as part of the coverage there there was a full study prepared and analyzing the need base part of this too. So, you know, from the
experts, uh, again, we're happy to have those discussions in detail if there are aspects of it that, uh, you know, are challengeable or if there's some factual, um, issue at play. But I, we do have the experts here and available to have that discussion. uh and maybe to
speak to Councilman Johansson, I I hesitate to say that there's an alternative site uh just from having an anecdotal conversation saying that, you know, please use this piece of acreage. But if that is the direction I'm hearing to come to an affirmative understanding
as to whether or not that's even on the table and possible, uh you again, I hesitate to keep kicking this can just because of the these folks and the time they've expended. That's that's the hesitation I have. And you know, a piece of land in your corner may
not even though you may believe it's developable or may be the appropriate spot, it it just may not work. And again, are we going to be back here having that same conversation over again when we do have expert testimony speaking to his need and the need for it in this area? And this is the site we
have available. And I don't know and I I know we're stretching on your time. Apologize. I apologize. Mr. Reid and his work, which was very well done. I might could we bring him back up just for a second? He'll point out two of the towers and
the distance from the towers he studied and the houses for real estate. Well, let's Well, just to to get you by the thousand ft. I think we're good on that. He can chairman. I have I have one question. He can be there in reserve. Yeah, we have
we have actually two other questions. Go ahead, Councilman Robbins. Um, David, I I always look forward to your your uh testimony as well and and uh I I value it. I got three questions to help you answer
um or or maybe um come to a uh a factf finding. Uh is it a fact that 748 is less than 1,000? Yes or no? Is that a yes? Is it a fact that 99 is less than
1,000? All right, I'm going to get you back on this one. Is 99 less than 500? So, you know, that that's kind of where I'm at. I I think the facts are there. I think the rebuttal is there uh
or the or the challenge is there. Um I see what you're saying uh as well. I think you should if I me cut you off. If I think you should cut me off. Yeah, I got cut you off. I think you should focus to help me personally as an individual vote is the least intrusive part of the the commentary because I
think they've established that there's a need that they have. But I don't know if they've if they have passed the threshold for me as this being the least intrusive and that's what our legal team have told us that's what we have to consider and with competent substantial
evidence. There's really are in my from what I learned those are two positions and I think they've accomplished one I don't know how to determine least intrusive so I think you could hang your hand on that for me
uh maybe the applicant can tell us that this is the least intrusive based on what and what I maybe maybe would help as part of this discussion and exercise you least intrusive in this context most certainly means that what availability
do we have and what's the cost associated with an alternative. it has to and if the exploration that's being asked of us is to engage these neighbors and to have those discussions even though again it was at last Thursday uh
you know I hesitate to say that that's what we where we want to take this but again we're happy to be good neighbors and have that discussion and if you give us that opportunity that may settle the dust a little bit as to this question uh you know from our perspective you know the only engagement we've had is on this
site and you know until as of last week. It's all of a sudden other sites show up. I have no idea if these sites are in swamp. I have no idea if these sites even have access to them. Uh but I do know that we have a currently a piece of property that fronts Vulco. It's accessible. It meets all staff's
criteria. And if that comfort level is what this council is looking for to uh have that discussion, I I think that may be prudent for 30 days to figure that out. Um, and that that would be something that I think as being a good
neighbor that we'd be willing to offer. And I Mr. Chair, if can staff define to us what least intrusive means? You are asking me to read a federal judge's mind. Um uh certainly I've seen at least one
case where a cost was associated with it where it was um I believe the the specific fact scenario was that California put a moratorium on towers um the they wanted to colllocate on an existing tower and uh I think that
specific town denied um and and they said no you know what you are asking them to do is the cost would be so outrageous that this it has the effect of prohibiting um service. So, so in this in this
instance, you know, is 748 feet the best they can do? Are there, you know, you know, if is going to another site would, you know, inflate the cost such that it is actually prohibitive to
have a tower in that area. such as to meet the thousand foot provision, you basically need to, you know, destroy some wetlands, build a road, set in the swamp, that kind of thing. Um, is this the best case scenario given the cost and time involved? Joey, I don't want to
put words in your mouth. Did you pos I don't know where the vote would go if we voted now, but did you allude to the possibility of maybe considering tableabling this and doing a little bit more work? I did for one council hearing. I think that's prudent just to have that discussion given, you know, we haven't had time to review on our end.
And, you know, I at least want to come back to you with some factual findings as to the applicability of those sites. You know, why they wouldn't work. I I hesitate, again, I've probably said this a few times now, is that, you know, the 11th hour, you know, somebody's opinion as to how that site is you, you know, I
just have to be careful about saying that, you know, this 10 acres is may be nice for cattle, but it may not be nice for a tower. That's one of the, you know, at least if we're if we're going into it with that thought in mind, then I I think it's worth having that discussion and I'm amendable to that to
that chairman. Okay. I'll I'll amend my motion uh and to table this. Mr. Posey, you need 30 days. I I think 30 days is sufficient for us to identify the pieces that these folks are talking about and for us to at least bring to the table a factual finding of whether they're
possible. Yeah. You good with that? June 22nd. Yep. Good for the council and the applicant. And I just want to say, Mr. Posie, I'm not against the tower. I want to make sure our bedroom is clean when it comes to laws and following them uh
the best we can. I think this council's done a good job historically uh with with that. And um I think we can get through this. We just got to do it the right way. As the second, I'm okay with that. Is there a uh a date for the meeting
that's close to 30 days out? What's what are the two What's the first meeting in July? July 22nd's your only meet only in July. So it'll be the second mean yeah July meeting. That's good for you. Okay. Table for a date certain July
22nd. And as long as Joey's here, um, we need him to, uh, his and his client to agree to, uh, toll the shot clock provisions for tower applications until the July 22nd meeting. Yes. Okay.
No objection from our Okay. It's a good outcome. Chair, I'll make a second motion to uh, break for lunch. Oh, we got a vote on this one though, right? I'll second that second motion. Not lunch is in here anyway. It is here. Oh,
okay. Everybody's really focused on lunch. Okay, let's vote on this. We have a motion to table to uh July 22nd uh from Councilman Robbins with a second from Councilman Kent. All in favor say
I. Any opposed? And that motion carries six to zero. Thank you. Uh I smell it now. Uh, I guess we could break
for le they have they've been waiting. Okay, let's do item nine and then we can break for lunch. This is the last of our quasi judicial hearings and the uh the parties have been waiting for this a reasonzoning from prime
agriculture. Um go ahead clay I'll let you uh yes sir this is an application to reszone property from A1 to A2 went to the planning land development regulation commission with a re approval from your staff. The PLLDRC held a public hearing. There was no public comment. The
recommendation was unanimous to approve it. 60. If there's any questions, staff. Motion to approve. Second. Presented. We have a motion to approve uh the reszoning from Councilman Robbins and the second was by Councilman
Santiago. Any questions? Sir, for the record, no exparty to declare? None. No. None. Thank you. Uh I to spoke to the attorney um by email. I spoke to the attorney on the phone.
She likes you better. True. Okay. Um, any other questions, comments? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And reszoning passes. Chick-fil-A vote.
And so we will break. It's 12:09. We will break until 12:45. Hey. Hey. Hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, Heat. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10
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12:47 with item 10, 5-year capital projects plan. Good afternoon, council. Rhino Oowski, chief financial officer. This is the five-year capital projects plan. This actually I think there's a slide that talks about it.
The process that uh you have in front of you was actually suggested by your internal auditor through one of his first internal audits on capital improvement projects that we needed to uh cover all of the capital projects that are that are being proposed and
even those that do not have any funding that's been identified such that we can at least annually cover the the capital needs and especially the needs that uh are in excess of the funding that we have. especially in the road
area. Um the projects that are submitted here are identified through our budget system. The department and division directors, constitutional officers, management, council, uh all everybody has input into these projects. Um that
are submitted uh in front of you today and we're here seeking your uh any suggestions of you know moving projects around. If you want to move something up, move something out, or if you like what we have presented here, this will then roll into the five-year forecast
and the future budgets. The five-year capital plan is part of every department's budget submitt, as I alluded to before, and the plan is reviewed and updated annually. uh the first year of the plan 2526 will
be incorporated into the budget and then the years 2 through five are for financial planning purposes only. Years two through four will be uh in the five-year forecast that we present uh because the five-year forecast is the estimating the current year plus the
future four years. The last year of it year five is for capital planning purposes but you don't actually see that in the five-year forecast. got some uh statistics here. This the same statistics from last year about uh how much road assets we have. We have
significant infrastructure and roads as well as facilities. Uh the same statistics that we had from last year. The projects are broken down into three different types. Capital replacement projects, which are any replacement or rehabilitation, small capital projects, and capital
improvement projects. Uh I won't go I won't read through exactly what makes each one of those up. It's the same as last year. The funding request by project type. You can see the five years that we've identified as well as the column with the funding not identified.
Uh the amounts are totaled there through the outy years. The 187,27,598 would be the projects that are anticipated to be included in this year's uh budget. There's some major projects that make up
a good chunk of that piece of money, and we'll talk about those in just a second. Uh, capital replacement projects, um, they're submitted based off of asset life expectancy, environmental conditions, any inspections,
usage. Small capital projects are submitted based off of the the uh and evaluated based off of the needs of the division, community impact, operational needs, and then uh capital improvement would be similar, but specifically on the funding not
identified. Uh it includes the Daytona Court complex master plan at $255 million. We left the number in there that we did that we had for last year because we're still in the process of implementing what council had directed last year. We had allocated $5 million
in this year's budget and there is u a study out right now to see the different options and evaluate proposals that we'll bring back to council. So we really didn't have any new information. So we left the number as it was last year because changing it
would indicate we had better numbers to put there and we really don't at this point. And that same story applies for PFC Emory Bennett Park expansion. that is uh the Westside Park expansion that the consultants came forward and
and we we talked about that and we currently are in the process of procuring a consultant that will help us uh try to get a P3 uh and see if we can get one of those types of opportunities to bring back to council for decision.
So, both of those projects are unfunded. The rest of the unfunded projects are the road projects that were originally identified years ago, except for some that have come off because we've found funding, but years ago um with the sales tax initiative, those same projects,
they're still out there and they're now part of this list where there's no funding identified. some of the highlight highlighted large projects that are in the current year's budget request uh column. Southeast area landfill construction first cell additional
funding and roadway improvements. This uh this project will actually end up being about $50 million in total. There's another $20 million that's being budgeted this year because there was already $30 million sorry being budgeted in 26 because there's
already $30 million that's budgeted in 25 that will be rolling forward. This project is uh paramount to the landfill. The the landfill is running out of space to put garbage. So, we need to get that next uh cell developed and
open. You may recall that council had previously approved a issuance of debt and some ARPA funds for the storm water system for the the acreage out there. But then after they get done with the storm water runoff system, then they actually have to develop the first cell.
And that's the estimated $50 million project. And we'll talk about that a little bit more on the solid waste forecast, which is in the next item, the sheriff's administration complex. Uh I'll take this opportunity to say that again, a little bit of a
preview of next week. Currently in this year's budget, we have $15 million budgeted to set aside for the sheriff's building. Upon evaluation of where we're at in the general fund, it will now be our recommendation to not fund that in the
25 budget for the 15 million nor the 15 million that was originally planned, but instead to take out a $30 million debt issuance to finance that building. That building will have a very long useful life. And the uh intergenerational equity theory of public finance would
say if you have a really long ass a large significant long life capital asset like that that you make future taxpayers pay for a building that's going to serve them as well and you don't put that burden all on your current taxpayers. And what that would do, uh,
if we do that, it would free up the $30 million now to keep it in reserves for emergencies, uh, when the picture is starting to look like we're eating into the reserves quite a bit. and FEMA especially current uh current guidance
that we've been getting from FEMA is that they're going to be pulling back on especially non public safety critical items like beach and parks. So, we have a lot of uh storm
damage that's been covered in Ian Nicole in uh Hurricane Irma uh and Dorian, just the ones since I've been here where we've had lots of coastal damage. If those types of projects are not covered, you could count on each major storm costing us $10
million in coastal repairs. That's that's probably the average over the last four major storms. uh as opposed to the 75% match of that or uh sorry 25% match of that right now. So that's the reason that it's listed at $30 million instead of 15. It
was originally going to be 15, but we're we're changing our recommendation really to to make the general fund reserves look better and we'll see that in the next meeting. Mosquito control facility, uh council's already approved for the design contract of this facility. Uh
we'll talk about that a little bit more when we get to the five-year forecast and mosquito control in uh in the next agenda item. Uh the last major project would be corrections video and surveillance uh project. There is already a budget that
previous budgets that pre there's already an amount that previous budgets have set aside in a capital projects fund for this project. However, it's been some time and the project cost has escalated and we need additional funding to make that project uh a
reality. And uh you've got the totals including the uh the carry forwards down there below. Funding for the road program uh is also here. So council previously adopted a road program on January 21st. Those projects are listed
in our spreadsheet. the actual spreadsheets with all the projects were attached to the agenda item. So, you've had time to look at those if you have any questions. We have directors here if there's questions about specific projects um or if you have questions for me in
general about budget process. Okay. Uh got a couple items that I'd just like to ask about where they're uh where they're going, how they're starting maybe to to move them up. But I
just noticed on uh page 16 under the trail projects um the land sun rail station to Dand $250,000 and it looks like that's the total. But then above it there's an item
to land sunrail station to downtown 2 and a.5 million. Um are those what's the difference between those projects? Mr. Bailey and then really what I'm looking for is how quick can we get that done
and is there a route established? Right. Yep. Uh good afternoon. Tim Bailey, parks, recreation, culture director. So the first 250 that you mentioned is for the station itself. That's a restroom, bike rack, a welcome center, that kind
of thing. The other the larger number is to extend the Delance Unreal station to 44 up to the city limit with a p a trail. That's correct. Okay. when
so uh the restroom is going to be pretty quick. I think it's if Tad's here, I think it's already designed. I think we're pretty close to bidding it out. The other portion uh that's the 2 and a half million. Yes. Right. The Yeah, that alignment is
established, but uh it's it's a little ways out. Okay. Okay. Um, on 10:19 there, and this came up at the last I think that's that's the only
parks and wreck that I had. Oh, sorry. Okay, that's all right. Don't be sorry. Somebody else will need you. Um, I think this came up at the last TPO, the LPGA. That was our road. It's not our road anymore. current went to the state.
So will the are we waiting for the state to tell us when that's LPGA is still ours? Is it? We didn't make the trade yet. We have not made the trade yet. They are still working on uh investigating
uh the condition of all the infrastructure along there and along with we're having to do the same on the peninsula. So that deal has not been made yet. Okay. So does that mean that this the 45
million is in limbo? Is that something we're saving for or that's the cost that that amount you see isn't the funding to be determined. That was the cost of the project as it's been u we've applied CPI construction CPI factors to all the projects that have
been on this list for a long time now. Okay. So we don't we don't know when that'll be funded yet. True. Yeah. There's no there's no funding. That's the Ka and all these that's the difference like he was saying
before we this is all of the capital including stuff that we have identified that we need but we don't necessarily have a way to fund it yet right and that's one of so the DOT Ben Barlet public works director the DOT has a project on the books they funded the
PD&E and the design um we're working on the transfer they're they're confirm I mean they're going to do the transfer we're waiting on you know the as Mr. Director Wall said to finalize the agreement and get that before you all. Uh transferring a road from the DOT is a little more difficult
than like when we do between counties and cities. There's a a whole process. This item and the unfunded or funding yet to be determined was back when before the DOT was going to do a said widening project. So when we do in fact
transfer the road, this will come off because it will no longer be our project, but it's still in here until that actually occurs. Um they do not they have funded design, they have not funded rightaway acquisition, nor have they funded
um uh the actual construction. That's where they are in their road program for that particular project. Okay. There's going to be a lot of rightway. There's going to be a lot of rightaway acquisition. Actually, the rightway is great uh in terms of the road itself,
but they need to acquire some areas for their for the storm water ponds. That's what they'll end up. Okay, good. Um Ryan or somebody on page um I'm almost done. On page 20, there's a million dollar
impact fee for motocross. How does we don't have motocross? How's how's the impact fee come? I think one of the constituents asked this. This is Yeah, Tim Bailey, recreation culture director. Um, so
impact fees are collected uh for new development, new construction. uh and it's collected um to build a new facility or some growth related asset at a park. So it's not like we're just collecting it for that project. It is
collected for all new construction and then those impact fees which are collected in quads or district districtwide is countywide. So uh and those funds uh get collected and then go to build new construction. can't be for maintenance.
Has to be for new construction. Okay. So, you're just you're anticipating motocross. Yeah. Yes. You guys have voted on on having that project. So, I don't remember motocross
coming to us for a vote. You guys Yes. As part you did it, you you did it as far as your goal setting. The same then you did the park uh at Bennett. So, we voted. Now, we haven't said where it's going to be yet. You you happen to buy land and you've had a consultant. You've
talked about it, but you but you it's definitely uh a project on our on our list, but we approved a consultant to bring us back cost um information about it. Yep.
The there's actually a budget that was approved by council of $3.5 million in the echo fund. This is a budget that was submitted as part of this year's budget that would be in addition to that. This point of this pro uh process that we're going through is if the council would
like to make changes and have us go back, we can pull that out of the impact fee fund and uh put it back to reserves if that's the will of the council. That's that's the point of what we're doing here. Okay. Um storm water where I'd really
like to spend money on page 22. There's half a million dollars um a year for different projects it looks like. What is is that just something we've we're going to do every year? We're going to
uh set aside since we know we have a lot of storm water projects that are needed. So we actually set aside a certain amount of money every year for acquisition of property as well as uh small flood mitigation projects. So that's something that you see every year
as things come up. We've uh we'll acquire property as needed. If it's in a we get a willing seller and it's an area that we can generate a project or if it's a situation where I know there was uh back when I was at Roaden Bridge we would buy some low-lying lots and areas that would come up for sale just because
we didn't want people to build houses on them. So we do budget that amount every year. We don't always spend it all but um given the situation we're in now, we're probably looking to generate we just recently acquired a a parcel of land on Grand Avenue. We're going to
look to do a project there where there's some localized flooding. Typically, that's where we fund these types of projects. Okay, good. Thank you. On page 24, is there a list somewhere the future
projects are? You've got year 2, three, four. A lot of money. Sure. You talking about the water utilities projects? Yes. Okay. Uh is there a specific question you have or are you just asking what these projects
are? Yeah, what what they are? Yeah, so the Glen Abbey uh projects, that's the large water plant down in Deerry. Oh, future projects construction. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I apologize.
So a lot of times we have various upgrades that have to be done to our water and wastewater plants that are in could be involving replacing pumps or filtration units. So we put in an amount every year to cover those kinds of projects. We don't always spend that amount. It's an enterprise fund. So if
we don't spend it, it goes back into the pot of money to stay there. But typically we water we, you know, we we have multiple water and wastewater plants, package plants. You could have a well that goes down, pumps that could go down, all those different kinds of things. So, we allocate a certain amount
of money every year for that. Okay, good. So, we're not cut short. Correct. Yeah. It's just you never know in the utility business something can break and you want to make sure you have the money to cover. And that's why it looks like that's why you hear from the public, you've got all these reserves just
sitting there. You don't, you know, stop taxing us for a year. We're actually putting money aside for uh Yes, sir. projects that we know. We put money aside for projects that, you know, there's unknowns. And any type of anybody who runs any large organization that requires a lot of maintenance,
whether it's roads or or or utilities or whatever, there's always that unexpected event. And the thing about, as Mr. Recall alluded to in an earlier discussion, it's an enterprise fund, so that money stays there. Um, and we've been very successful getting grants and those kinds of things for capital
projects as well. So, I think that's something very important to understand that we the projects that we do in utilities were all mandated. We had to do them. And I don't know where we'd be if Mike over there hadn't uh gotten uh
the grants that we got uh on both of our pro our big uh treatment plants. I mean, they're in the tens of millions of dollars. and we would have been footing that and a lot of other utilities across the state are in deep in the red because they have to meet those same
requirements and they did not get those grants. But we got those grants because the the council uh was um forwardlooking enough to make sure that we went forward with advanced water
treatment in a time when nobody else was getting there. that'll freed Mike up to uh work with the state and get the grants that we got. So again, that we're it's one of those kind of quiet things we do. We do it behind the scenes. He
gets it, but that would have all gone to the utility. It would have all been to the rateayers and our water would cost a lot more uh if he hadn't done that work. And just one other quick thing, you want your utility to have it be healthy to not be struggling or pay paycheck to
paycheck, so to speak. And um like a lot of things in public works, whether it's the signals or, you know, the road can't have a giant hole in it or whatever, the water and the sewer service has to work. And uh so we have to make sure that when those unexpected
events occur that we have the money to uh to cover those costs and make sure that we're still providing the service to the rateayers that we need to provide. Absolutely. Good job, Mike. You're not in drop, are you? No, he's around for a long Okay.
Another 30 years. Okay. Last last one for me. And I think I've I talked to Director Ryan about this. He said the uh the county manager shared my concern with on page on page uh is it 30 or 36? Anyway,
it's the the money for sound systems here in the sound booth downstairs in the overflow area. I just I said I how can we move that up? How can we get it done as quickly as possible? And Michael said, "The uh county manager has already
directed me to get that done as quick as possible." I didn't misquote you, did I? Did I get you in trouble? What page was that, Mr. Chair? Is it the page that's up here now? Is it 30 or 36?
I can't read your writing. Well, that's my writing. What line item? Yeah. General fund rebuild of council chambers audio video system. Where is it? Right there on the screen. I don't know. It's the No, that's not
It's on page 10-36. The very last item. It's not on your screen. It would be on your laptop. You need to go to the next slide. Our next page. There you go. Now it's on. The the pages that uh that the team is flipping from are different than the ones that are on the website. So
that's why there was a little confusion. Okay. Questioning, Mr. Chair. Uh what what what are we proposing to do there with that 300,000 chair council Michael Ryan, your communications director, the proposal would be to basically rebuild the entire system for the the substantial parts of
it. There may be some pieces that that still work for us, but the system has been uh built and rebuilt and layered on over years and years and years which creates some of the um problems and troubles we experience and several of the pieces are more than 10 to 15 years old. Does that include the video from
here in the chambers? Uh yes sir. It would for the generically speaking it would include all the audio and all the video for here and TCK downstairs because they talk to each other. Okay, good. I I support them Mr. Chair because I think the video here isn't very good. when you try to watch after I've had people commented to me the video's There
you go. It's messing up right now apparently. Thank you. Nice job over there. Cue the glitch. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that visual effect. Did you do that, Cararissa? Okay. All right. Uh that's all for for me. Thank
you. Uh Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had a question on the trail head funding uh stuff. Is that a dedicated line item sourcing of funding? Where's that come from? Uh, we have $1.5 million year-over-year from the echo fund that gets moved over into the 320.
Okay. Um, and help me understand somebody the million dollars allocated for the fairgrounds. Oh, I don't know what page I was glancing through it. So, this is echo funds as well and it is a um it's implementation of the council approved
master plan for the fairgrounds. If you've been by lately, you'll see the construction with phase one. It's looking pretty good. Should be open in the next month. So, I encourage you to go to the fair. Um, so you can see the improvements we've made. But phase, this is for phase two, which would be adding
some shading, um, having some permeable pavers off the Hester and Dowardy building, so you could have people sit there um, during the fair, during events. We really want to make it more rentable so we can improve our revenue cuz correct me if I'm wrong. Um there's there's three there's three three parties that are involved in that whole
area. people know as fairgrounds cattleman's uh fairgrounds association in us right yes sir and the improvements are only on the county owned portion and that's kind of sort of on the northwest side I think right north where that long building is I forgot what it's called yes hester dowertity building that is
correct so directly behind the a center all the way up to the center of the the culde-sac is county owned so that's about 19 acres is the county own what are we doing there help so right now we have so when you walk through it you we have shelled roads and the drainage is
is pretty bad. Um, so we have completely redone the roads. Everything will be paved now so it's ADA accessible, nice for people to access. We've added some bio retention elements, you know, with cypress trees that we're planting. We use kind of we tried to use green
infrastructure that the whole midway will be lit with um LEDs. Uh we're using some permeable pavers in different areas as a demonstration for folks as an option for them. We're allowing access to the Hester Darity building bathrooms. So now you don't have to rent the
building to have the bathrooms if you have an outdoor event. And um some other improvements to the building. So the rollup doors that are now metal. This is what our consultant said with the master plan. You have a warehouse in the middle of a field. Uh so we're going to do the the rollup doors that are see-through.
We've added some storefront windows along um the side so it it's um gets more light and it's more conducive to rentals. Awesome. Thank you. Appreciate that answer. Um the other thing, Mr. Chair, is uh now I'm going to get into
I'm going to get into sensitive area the jail. Um what's talk to me about that 8 million video? That's actually the total, it's not just video when when they're talking the security system in the jail, video is
part of it, but think about it in terms of uh all the control of the of the cells. You know how when they they you or if you were to go in there, how the doors work in such a way, you go in, one shuts behind you, another one. So you
you know, it's all the kind of uh You seen the movie Mission Impossible? How they hacked into that and they opened all the gates? Well, that's we'll be putting stuff in there to hopefully that there won't be any hacking. It's $8 million. That's what it is. But right, but it's not when we say security system, it's not like what you think
just cameras. It is the really the operation of all those cells and all those corridors and think about how you know, say you're running down a corridor, boom, the door is going to shut because they're controlling all that from master control centers. So,
it's it's it really is controlling the jail electronically, tying it in with the um uh the video as well. And and so it's really the meat of the jail. I mean, it is the it is how they run that thing
daily. And it's a big deal. And that's why it is a big cost. Is it Matt Reinhardt approved? I'm fixing to tell you. We're going to put him in and see if he can escape like an escape room thing. So, we're going to charge uh on weekends. Um this I see this $200,000
for the historic courthouse. What's going on there? We put a lot of money into that building over the years. What's up now? I'm happy to answer anything else for the for the jail. No, no. I'm sure Matt will get Mr. Corvett and and Mr. Jennings are coming down to
discuss the building. Now, of course, that is a historic building. So everything you do in there, it's um probably a little bit more and and uh things it's it's a little bit of a bear to keep up. There's no doubt. But go
ahead. Good morning, council. Jim Corbett, facility management. So the 200,000 for historic courthouse. Uh we have um again, it's a historic building. We have a lot of issues going on right now. Um if you haven't walked around in it, I encourage you to look up at the
ceiling. There's some plaster issues. uh the doors outside are some large historic doors, very expensive to replace. So, um we want to get in there and ensure that the uh prestige of that building is maintained. So, we're going to tackle those issues at So, it does get a little bit expensive to do work in
those older buildings because we have to find qualified craftsmen to do that type of work. Is that general fund? Yes. Aren't there I may be making something up. Aren't there like historical preservation building grants out there, stuff like that? If there have we pursued any of that? We do. We work with
Brad's group for echo grants where applicable. Yes, sir. Okay. I'm talking about state and federal probably. I don't know. I'm guessing we a lot of those went away. That's actually one of the problems that occurred uh with some of our echo projects for private folks that were getting historical grants on a
regular basis to match and that went away and kind of left them hanging with half the money. And that's why, you know, one or two of them I know went away because of of those loss of those grants. Gotcha. Um and then on the ocean center improvements, it's just this is
more of a not that I have any concern with them other than, you know, that bill that's pending in the legislature for TDA uh funds. Um, last time I read it, it it mentioned uh something along the lines that certain fundings or or
loans or commitments that were made up to a certain date. I thought it said July, but I may be wrong. I'm just kind of putting it on the radar um to make sure we've looked at that we can be ahead of anything if we need to because it could save us some of that money.
Yeah, it'll be an issue if it if that comes to fruition. The main part of it, of course, is the debt that we took out. Yeah. To expand that building uh back in uh the mid 2000s. So, that's the the
biggest part of it. Now, since then, of course, we're trying to keep it up and maintain it on a pay as you go uh uh a method because we have such a large debt already tied into the expansion. I think where where I'm going is that if I'm correct on my understanding of the bill,
I think it said that any funding or debt that's issued before a certain date in July would be sort of grandfathered into being utilized as the TDA funding before you have to do other things with it. Um, and the reason I bring it up, instead of
paying cash for some of these things, maybe it's better for us to I don't know, I'm guessing I don't know if it's a half a million dollars, whatever it might be, borrow that money and then we secure the funding from the TDA side instead of taking it out of our general fund. So, I may be off on the dates, but
I think it's worthy to check. I get what you're laying down, so we're uh we'll talk more about that. Yeah, we find a loan officer to give us a little loan. Yeah. Okay. That's my thoughts. Yeah. Anyway, just trying to be ahead of it, be strategic. Okay. Um, and the only other thing I have uh to my colleagues,
I do have one ask. Um, and and and I don't have the dollar for dollar and if you want, I'll try to work it and give it some some suggestions, but um the Saxon Boulevard um that's a major issue uh for me. It might one of the major issues, but Saxon Boulevard, Finland to
Normandy, I'll kind of paint the picture for you. That area is like super busy coming off I4. And what we have there right in front of the Publix where the Halifax Medical Center is, we have three lanes coming in from the highway and
then you have I'm going to guess about a 100 ft to merge into two lanes and it's it's a lot of car in the evenings coming out of there. When you're on that third lane all the way to the right, you got to gun it to try to get into uh into a
right position. So, it's a safety thing. And I see that we have allocated $6.7 million. Tad or Bren Bren, happy birthday, Ben. What is that money for? What are we doing with the 6.7 million that is not funded? I want to try to see
if we can escalate that and possibly swap it for something else if it helps that situation. So that project was part one of the uh projects that were identified as part of the uh halfsent sales tax push. Um what I would recommend is
um we can definitely take a look at it and study it. That would probably be the first thing we would want to do. But I believe a lot of that area is tied into what the DOT plans on doing with an interchange in that area. So um you want to speak a little bit more and uh you
may recall as a part of the road program presentation there were a group of projects that we did not purposely include for your consideration. Not that they couldn't obviously add it but that was one of them because it that uh interchange um and at this point all the way up through a procra prospective
interchange up at Rhode Island are part of the DO's beyond the ultimate plan. So, we didn't want to spend a bunch of money in that area. Understanding that it is a problem, but uh and then have DOT come through and then redo all of that. We didn't want to spend that much
money on a what would effectively be a temporary process. We uh we do plan on coordinating with the Department of Transportation and then trying to build off of what they're going to do when they get to that stage so that we've got an improvement not just there at Finland, but even quite a bit farther
east is the plan. So it would allow us to stretch our dollars a little bit farther. DOT taking care of everything basically west of Finland cuz they would that's what I was going to ask a DOT would come up how far would they even go up to Finland? I would expect that they would. I mean anything that you're going to do I mean they try to try to set
logical termini and you know if you go stop west of Finland then you're basically stopping in the middle of nowhere. You know you're stopping in the middle of those two shopping centers. uh public's on the south side. And so um when we put I know it was done the 50
cents like you said back then. Um do did we do any uh due diligence or research on any of that when we parked the 6.7 million or was just an arbitrary I'm I'm not critical. I'm not being critical. No, what we were using for those numbers was the DOT has their long range uh
recommendations for calculating and that's what we used and it is and that was the conceptual number four or five years ago. So uh I don't believe it's actually been factored for growth and certainly does not account for any interchange. They've been adding to it
based on CPI. I will say one thing the DOT came and recently met with us regarding their plans. they they had that beyond the ultimate kind of look ahead and they're actually resurrecting that and they're uh basically updating the PD&E on that and we had a discussion
with them that included that ba that stretch from Saxon actually all the way up through Rhode Island and the discussion what we had relayed to them is we really want to see that Rhode Island interchange either tied to maybe the express lanes if they take them that far. So that could lead to a pretty
unique situation, you know, depending on what they come up with, where you end up with like a an access road, if you will, because those interchanges are so close to each other, you could end up with a situation like you have down in Lake Mary between 46 and Lake Mary Boulevard where you have that fly road. So yeah,
um it when as they're updating the PD&E, we'll work with them on that and then any improvements that they identify, we can tag on for that section between I like what you're putting down. I guess my ask to the council is um if if they already starting that process, we got to
start putting money towards it is is where I'm going with this, right? Um because that's to it's unfunded at this point. And um Miss County Chair, how would you recommend me to go about that because it's $6.7 million. Do I need to find $6.7 million elsewhere and say swap
this for that? Yeah, go door to door. Um I'm going to start. How much did we just spend in the start of Holly Hill? Yeah. One one of the reasons we switched from a road program that was being approved by the council to a priority list was because we didn't have enough money to fund
everything on there and um as funding sources became available, you know, they'd come before you anyway for approval of this contract or that contract. So, in this case, what I'd recommend is that uh you know, we wait to see how DOT schedule progresses. I haven't looked at their schedule lately
to see where they are in terms of uh that interchange on their 5-year road program. If it's out three years or more, you know, the only funding source that we have for transportation that is consistent is that new nickel that that five or six million that's typically
marked for capacity style projects. Outside of that, our funds are based on impact fees and proportionate fair share. And really two three years out we don't really have a very good crystal ball on what those numbers are going to be. So we generally don't spend those on outlying projects.
That's something would but I would have to I would have to in essence find uh and and the council would have to agree if they if they so choose um money to take it from somewhere else. Well, we put it on the priority list and then as it uh as it comes forward, we
would fund it based on the money that we have at that point in time and and we shift it around. But that's why we've got a priority list so that you can go ahead and say, "Hey, this is more important to me than say yeah, you know, um making changes up there at um um Lake Helen Ostein Road, something along those
lines." We've got several different projects that could be bumped just based on um what your priorities may be at the time. So, and if DOT's schedule is a little bit ahead of, you know, moves forward, then we can go ahead and make the adjustments on that list. Gotcha.
And and so, I'm sorry if I sound repetitive, Mr. Chair. Um I just I I'll find a way to to present to this council uh an idea to make that section a priority of ours that can potentially be funded within the next cycle, at least a
set aside because we don't know what it's going to cost, but start putting money away uh for it. And if if the council so agrees, we'll go from from there if that's okay. Right now, with it being tied to a DOT project, obviously, especially something with the interstate, there's going to be quite a bit of lead time on a lot of these different things. We'll just shut down
the train station. They'll give us the money. I'm joking. We won't need all that money right up front. We'll need design money first, right? Rightway acquisition, and it's going to take for those processes quite a while for That's what I figured. Yeah. And then for us to do the rightway acquisition and identify
and all that. That's why I want to start putting money away to it now. Sometimes it's easier for us to get property than them. So, that's something we we'll work on. Again, it it's very thoughtful to be out ahead like that because there are some things maybe we can do uh to prep
it because we're going to have to do something there. That's unacceptable the way those those three lanes just it's it's a it's a rush. You've seen it. It's dangerous. So, anyway, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. The the first question I had um on page 1038
um the court safety and security measures I saw on the previous pages about the historic courthouse. Of course, we've we've talked about that and I saw year 2, three, four, and five. Is that addressing these concerns
for the Foxmen and the Henderson courouses? Yes. So essentially th those court safety security measures are for all the courouses that we identify. Um considering that we're doing the judicial space study and we've got that
effort undergoing. So the efforts may shift from one courthouse to another depending on what the re Yeah. Because I know that they they just brought on two new judges. Um and of course space was an issue. Courtroom space, office space, things of that nature were an issue. Not sure where they were going to put them. know that was a concern. In addition to
the fact of some of the antiquated antiquated uh ways of security from the Henderson courthouse um seeing that over the years, there are some concerns that obviously you're aware of. Yes, it's a continuous process and we're working with sheriff's department to identify those
deficiencies and rectify them. Does that just address interior or exterior as well? Both interior and exterior security measures. Yes. Okay. Thank you. And then um Danny's yelling at me not to bring up anything about the jail, but sorry buddy. Um page 1034
um to answer or go along with um my colleagues concerns about cameras at the jail. uh some of the and um you can attest to this as well that some of the cameras that are in there date back to at least the framework of
that date back to the opening day of that jail in 1987. So that I mean right there and you want to talk about grainy footage um it is absolutely necessary to be able to get a clear picture uh to some of the activity
especially inside the blocks. Oh for sure. and Random Inusak public protection director. We do try to up update and upgrade you know uh cameras as we identify issues with them but certainly it's something that we have to budget for consistently and then that video v uh video surveillance system
will further update the cameras and um we actually try to reduce some of the cost with that to um uh comparing it to how we typically um budget for cameras and replace those cameras um uh because we did see some additional costs with that project. Uh and so we are trying to
kind of reel it in a little bit. Now that addresses the issues in both facilities, the correctional facility and the branch, too. Yes, sir. So, um David, for just Oh, he's not even here. Uh FYI, um there have been over
the over time frame, especially as we add new buildings over the correctional facility of the dormitories, there are many blind spots that we identified years ago, even more now. So that would um obviously need more. Um there is an
interface also uh just to inform people that when an officer approaches a door and presses the button to gain access to a specific area of the jail when they press that button for the camera or there's an interface between the door and the camera itself. So that's a
security issue as well that that we need to hold on to. Um, and lastly about the jail, um, I noticed that years 25, 26, um, with the window replacement, we've talked about that for many, many years.
Those windows are are in bad shape. We've been using a a filler, if you will, to Matter of fact, on a on a security inspection, we're looking for u jagged edges in those windows um, as windows deteriorate and break. and they've I know that um we talked about
this a long time ago when I was working there. Um I just don't want to keep pushing this back because the cost of those windows are extremely expensive and the cost is only going to go up. You think cameras are expensive? Those windows have that steel mesh that's in
them, right? And they're they're about yay thick. So they're not they're not cheap. We've been looking for alternates with that one as well. Um because we have several of these. I mean, you can see this, you know, we have the video visitation. We have the portable pipes that we're trying to kind of phase because that does require shutting down
units and things like that. Um, for the windows, we're trying to find ways to uh be a little bit more cost effective with that. Well, because it's not just the cost of the windows, it's actually that they have to the windows as they are right now are built into the wall. So, there's a lot of masonry and all of that
kind of stuff that's involved with that. Unfortunately, there are uh legal issues that under Florida model jail standards that you have to have so much natural light and it's actually measured. I think it's actually just light uh is what we've kind of verified with that. So, they have changed that. So, we are natural. So, top priorities for us of
course is to follow and make sure that we're passing and abiding by FMJS standards and of course safety. Uh and so we have we stay on top of the condition of the windows right now and we are monitoring that you know and and taking that into consideration as well when it comes to timing out the the
repair of those. Some options that we might be looking into is replacing some bricking over others you know to be able as long as you add the the illumination as long as we meet those requirements right for FMJS standards. Sure. And now that they've changed that that may be even better and more cost effective.
Makes it a little easier. All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. Said a couple quick um items just want to talk about. Had approached by uh business community in Edgewater and they were inquiring uh
about getting uh I guess Josephine to Air Park uh or Park Avenue uh maybe upped on the list. You know, I I've been down there several times, obviously, and and uh there's also been some major um storm water uh issues and drainage
issues uh down there. Uh didn't start recent uh 30, 40 years from what uh some of the residents have said. So, I want to try to focus on that. And that's also to uh one of the entrances to the
largest uh this goes back to a little bit of David's push last meeting for uh enhancing our industrial sites and our industrial community and jobs, but it goes into uh one of the largest industrial or contiguous industrial areas in in the county which is uh right
down there off of Old Mission and Park. So if we can uh look at that, see if we can prioritize that. Josephine and 10th to Air Park. Uh that'd be a focus of mine. I'd support that. And uh also to
Ben, I saw the uh the 2 million uh in there still for the dredging of Spruce Creek. I know that cost is going up by the second. Um, do we have any idea if we can um or what kind of the forecast is looking like to get that project
funded? I'm going to turn over to Jessica. She's been working that. There you go. Good afternoon. Jessica Fentress, coastal director for county. We have been working diligently on the Spruce Creek dredging project. Um, since it's an outstanding water of
Florida, there's a lot of feedback from the environmental regulatory people, from the DEP mostly where they want to reduce and minimize the impacts to our oyster beds that are in the area. So, they're trying to reduce the footprint.
Um, a couple of recent bids came in through our consultant DMC on a similar project. Last fiscal year, we were estimating about 1.2 2 million for construction and the bids that are coming in have just absolutely skyrocketed. Um we're looking at
reducing the footprint to come into compliance with DP a little bit more. We're also looking at the al alternatives of doing hydraulic versus mechanical judging and the numbers have just kind of blown out the water right now. So, we're at about 2 mil. I'm I'm carrying
about 700,000 balance on the project, and I'm hoping that by next fiscal year, these numbers will hold firm and we can uh go to construction. We also still need to negotiate the approval from FEC, who actually owns the trussle and owns the land under the trussle um for their
permission to actually do the work as well. So, we need about 700,000, you said. No, we're we're good right now. Um that's why we pushed it two years out is we don't believe we can physically go to construction before FY2627 just with the FEC and the
regulatory comments that we're getting back. Okay. Um you had uh one of the chairman chairman and members of find you know reach out to Buddy and his crew and I guess too to u capture some of their funds if we do need it. I guess
they need a Spruce Creek that side has to be accessible. So, we've been talking about that, but this is definitely a I appreciate you guys uh prioritizing what you're what you're doing. So, thank you. Um Ben, see flood mitigation project
600,000 and then land purchases. Do we have any expectation to uh bring that number up or is that what you were talking about earlier? It's just pretty standard that you figure into your budget. Well, the uh the storm water fund, as you know, we we raised
the fee to the maximum allowed under the current amount. We had the discussion a few months back about um you know, doing the notice and setting the uh meeting to increase not to necessarily increase the fee, but to increase the cap. What I would say is
any increase in the storm water utility fund for capital projects at this point is going to require a fee increase. Okay. I would also add just a reminder what you're looking at here is what's going to be in the adopted budget. What's not included in this plan is any
grants. Grants are done through amendments and the CDBGDR money which has millions and millions, hundreds of millions is not included in this. So obviously there's a lot more storm water money out there. Okay. All right. I
think everybody else covered uh covered everything. Thanks. Councilman Johansson. Thank you, Chairman Ryan. Real quick, um uh facilities. Um I was just there. Facilities for
courts. I lost it, but I was there till I touched my uh um that 255 million is it in the outyear total? Yes. Uh as I mentioned earlier in the presentation, we really
don't have a better number for that. That's the number that we had in uh in last year's presentation. This would be the number that was previously discussed from it's been carried over for many years. Got it. And inflated a little bit based off
of the original east side courthouse issues. So like uh the sheriff's new building, would this be another opportunity to bond? Any project of that size would require bonding. With the sheriff's facility, we actually
could in theory you could fund it, but you wouldn't have enough you wouldn't have probably as much money as would be recommended to have for reserves. And and what other looming projects out are out there that
that you're eyeing for bonding in this budget? We have three different projects that would be looking at bonding. That would be the sheriff's office facility, the solid waste uh landfill phase one, and the mosquito
control building. Got it. And and so the the solid waste would be paid for out of fees. Paid for out of the solid waste fund, which is wholly fee driven. Mosquito out of the mosquito tax out of
the mosquito control millage, which we'll we'll cover that five-year forecast here in a minute. Okay. But I'm going to ask you about the last one. The court would be the the if if you were to bond the court facility that would be out of general general fund. Yeah. Right. Thank you.
Councilman Kent. Appreciate it. Chairman Council, just a couple that there's actually a lot that jump out of me, but the two that I just briefly want to touch on the the land courthouse chiller $975,000. It just it always blows my mind to think we're going to spend a million dollars on a on a chiller, but
it is what it is. You know, it's the cost of doing business. The other one is the branch jail portable water pipes at $5.4 million. Um, it brings me back to most things on this list to me are
renewal and replacement. And it's just a good reminder for me and I think for all of us with anything we're going to build new. We have to keep in mind there is a cost associated with making sure we keep it in pristine
condition and it's going to need air conditioned. It's going to need heat. It's going to need a new roof. It's going to need to be repainted. It's going to need new water pipes. And these are things that aren't lost on me. And I know they're not lost on you gentlemen either, which is why I think it would be beneficial to the county residents. I
think it would be beneficial to this council and I think staff would appreciate it. Um, and I've not spoken about this with staff, but a designated millillage for renewal and replacement every year. So, a piece of our millillage, you know, this way staff
knows and we know here's a a pot of money that we're going to spend every year on renewal and replacement because we know that a roof lasts 30 years. We know it's going to have to be repainted in 10 years. We know all of these things are going to happen and and it takes
some of that guesswork out because we are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this. It's a real need that we have. It's not a shell game. It's more of a this is what we are dedicating every year. So Georgian company, cut
loose and make the decisions on where you want to see this money spent. Um and prioritize our buildings and and then it comes back down to every new building we
build, we we have to care for. Um because I refuse to ever be part of a government body that doesn't take care of what they have. You know, we have something like recreation. We can never ever say, "Well, we got to shut down this this indoor basketball complex
because it's raining and you know, the roof needs to be redone." That's a big no no. Like we we've I think we're doing a good job of taking care of our stuff. I want us to have something implemented that says boom, here's amount of money every year. It's dedicated. This is what you're going to get to make sure things
are on the up and up. Thanks. Do you have any feedback on that? Well, the way we operate I I will just say uh and he can elaborate more. The the good news is we we haven't added anything new and so we are operating
kind of under that premise. I mean the suggestion of having a dedicated millillage we could work at it from probably a dedicated dollar amount which translates into a millillage and and make sure we understand it. It's not that u you know the department of
transportation has actually in their statutes certain amount of money that comes in the door the first dollars in have to go to resurface and maintain the what they already have. So yes, it's that same premise of hey, we got to take care of what we have before we build
anything new. And we are this team is uh been operating under that premise uh you know for many years. So uh it wouldn't be that hard to to translate it into a millillage and and come to you before and show you that we're making
those um needs. And and like I say, we have been able to keep up with what we have because we haven't added a lot of new things. the sheriff's building would be the first uh one uh that's to that's
new uh uh and and kind of an additional uh than what we've had in a long time. The other things we've had have been replacements. You take like the evidence room that was out of the old jail. Uh it was a nightmare. Um and we were able to
replace that building. Same with the medical exam building. It was a replacement. So, you know, we we're working under that kind of idea. We don't have anything right out there right now that jumps out at me um that's in the shape that those facilities had
gotten to uh because we have worked towards modernizing. So, um you want to add to that at all? Uh I I would add um the budget for the county is we have hundreds of funds. So when
you say a dedicated millillage, you would almost be talking about that in a variety of funds. Like if we were to dedicate some of the fire millage to maintenance and dedicate so it's it's a little bit different than perhaps a city where the general fund does most of the work. Um road work right now is funded
with the county transportation trust fund. So there's not really a millage tied to that. Same thing for the ocean center. So there's a little bit of we we try to make sure that we're setting aside the right amount of money for for facilities. It's actually you can ask George and Suzanne some of the analysis
that I've been doing is what are we what kind of money are we setting aside for capital because uh you'll see it in the five-year forecast presentations. We have capital replacement and maintenance type items that are in the operating budgets of
each of these areas. But then we also break out at the bottom of every forecast for the general fund specifically major capital improvements and then we usually are using one-time money to do those types of projects. Um some of those major capital improvements
are a little more aligned with repairs like the pipes project or the security project. Some of them are purely new things like the sheriff's building. uh having enough money set aside for recurring capital is something that we need to have and it's important that
we're we're making sure that we do that. Setting aside a millage rate for it. If you were to just look at the general fund, we can calculate what we're doing today and we can easily bring that back and then maybe set a goal that will set aside part of it. It wouldn't be a separate millage rate the same way the
sheriff is a separate mill rate because there's actually a separate specific state statute that allows us to levy a fine and forfeite fund millillage which is legally what the law enforcement fund is called and that allows it to be on the tax bill. There's no equivalent
thing for renewal and replacement. So it would really just be diving up our current millillage and say that we have a goal of setting aside this much of our current millillage to those types of things. That would just be the general fund pieces. So, it's it's there's complexities to
it, I guess. That's what I'd say. Thank you. Does that help? Okay. Well, um, you've got direction on Dan. I actually have one more thing. Okay. the that uh just adding on to that
making sure that we have funding for all of what we need in the future including capital is a part of why we do five-year forecasts for budgets as well. So that's a critical part of looking at this. Uh it's not just sustainable from a maintenance and capital perspective but from an operating perspective as well.
So that's why we go beyond just setting a current year budget. Okay. Then while you're here, why don't we do the five-year forecast in item 11? All right. Can you get the PowerPoint to that?
Thank you, directors. ESPN version. All right. So, I actually want to point something out on the title slide. It says part one of two, and that's because we're only covering six funds here today. will be at least six, seven, maybe even eight funds. I'm not
quite sure where we're going to land on the last presentation. Just things that we want to point out to council on these five-year plans. We actually do way more than that in five-year forecast. We just don't present them here. They become part of your recommended budget book that you'll receive in July, but we do
financial forecasting for all of our major operating funds, not just the ones that we're presenting to you. we present the ones to you here in chambers for all of the taxing funds uh because there's a direct you know a rate that has to be set and then any other funds that we have uh things that we want to point out
to you critical uh junctures if you will. The five-year forecast uh each forecast that we show you is for an individual fund and individual funding stream. Uh it shows you the adopted budget for this year and an estimate for where we're going to end the year. Uh that estimating process is very
important to us in the finance office because it kind of tells us what are we going to have left over. We plan ahead especially in the general fund. Uh you'll see that next next meeting. We plan ahead for anticipated savings like we'll find grants or we won't use the
entire budget. We plan ahead so that we can reduce our millage rate in the in the general fund. in some of the other funds where it's not as critical like uh the the solid waste fund for example if they don't spend the entire amount that's allocated towards that construction project that just stays in
that enterprise fund and it rolls to the next year. Same thing with the water sewer fund. So those estimates are important to us because they tell us where we're starting the year. Then there's a column for the budget request and a column for three out years which encompasses your five years. uh the top
of every forecast is the revenues and the bottom of every forecast is the expenditures. Some of the assumptions in this presentation the funds across the board we got our values from the property appraiser last Wednesday depending on the taxing district uh the growth on property uh
value taxable value specifically was 7.4 to 8.1%. 8.1% was where the majority of the funds were, including the general fund, which would also be where Echo, Forever, the library, and the law enforcement fund would be because those are all countywide taxing districts. In other
words, countywide taxable values went up by 8.1%. Of that 8.1%, 2.6 of it was new construction. So, revaluation made up the remaining five 5.5.
uh in the out years of these forecasts, we still anticipate taxable value going up by 7% a year. Uh to to people that are watching this online, perhaps you might say, "How are they saying that taxable value is going to go up by 7%. Don't you see that property values are
going down?" If if Councilman Dempsey were here, he'd be nodding right now. Uh yes, we do see in in just values that some of the sale prices are being reduced out there and values have stabilized if not going down a little
bit. However, the way that property values work for taxing purposes is we have an assessment limiters. The 3% limit for homestead property, 3% or CPI, which this year will be 2.9% by the way.
that limiter has people way behind in their property values as far as what's actually being taxed. So just because your just value may be a little lower or maybe it's stable and in some neighborhoods the property appraiser would tell you it's still going up. It's all over the place. Uh just because it
goes in whatever direction it goes doesn't mean that the assessed isn't so far behind that it's just going to grow by that 3% cap. All nonhomesteaded properties have a 10% cap. So, when property values were shooting up during COVID, like maybe 50%
over the three-year period, we weren't seeing that in our taxable values. If you go back and look at our taxable values, they went up by 13, 11, 10%. So, we're still uh the beneficiary of those delayed value increases when it comes to taxable value. That is why we can stand
here comfortably and say we're still projecting 7% increases in taxable value. between that and new construction. It's actually been confirmed with the chief I don't know officially what his title is with the property appraisers office, but Mark Wright, he's in charge of all the
valuation. He's confirmed those values with me as well as far as what we should expect for the 10% cap and the 3% cap. Solid waste disposal fees are important to this budget because that's one of the forecasts that we're presenting. Um we're estimating 12% above budget and
4.8% above estimate. Uh and again that estimate process now we're another year into the process. We're here talking about 26's budget. A year from now I'll be talking about 26's estimate and we'll only be six six months away from year end instead of a year and six months. So
those estimates we've already taken into account the fact that things are doing better than they were originally b uh budgeted. So that those estimates are are why you see the two different numbers there for the outy years 6% a year. that is an um that is an important revenue forecast to that fund. It's the
main source of revenue for that fund. That's how we're going to pay for the need for that capital that large capital project out there. That's also why staff uh took and council approved our CPI resolution. So now our solid waste fees
will go up by CPI plus 1%. Add on to that an anticipated 2% growth in garbage volumes just based off of new residents and increased use of the landfill, which we've historically seen. That gets you to the 6% that we're we're projecting. Fuel taxes, that 9% is a bit
of a misnomer the way that it says that right there. Uh we're not going to see that kind of growth in the out years. However, in 2024, when we closed the books for 2024, we did see a bump in gas tax revenues compared to where we thought we would be and we're now
catching up and recognizing that 9% increase. But historically speaking, prior to 2024, we were only seeing like 1% changes because the gas tax is not indexed. It is a flat it is a flat 12 cents per gallon for the for the local
county levy tax. And uh so the only changes in that revenue would be increased use investment income. This is not the rate of return. You you're all count you're all copied on the quarterly investment reports that we put out where we're how we're doing and how we're
doing against benchmark. The investment portfolio is around 4 and a half uh to 5% return right now based off of government portfolios. However, we see those rates dropping. So, these are percentages on top of percentages. These are the amount that we expect the dollar
amounts to go down. And we do expect them to go down because government portfolios are invested in short-term securities. And if you're paying any attention to the bond market right now, well, maybe there's some instability in long-term rates, like the 30-year
Treasury just crossed 5% and Moody's downgraded uh our credit rating, and there's some increased uh yields in some of the Treasury auctions because the Treasury has to continue issuing debt. The shortterm side is what we're
affected by. We're more affected by the Fed's rates as opposed to what the Treasury can issue 30-year bonds at. Those Fed rates, if you look at the Fed Open Market Committee, like what does the Fed think they're going to do? They actually put projections out and we use
those projections to factor in here. They all uh the consensus of the Fed board members is that rates will come down and so we factor that in. I won't go over each one of these lines to to Danny's request for the ESPN
version, but I do I do want to highlight a couple. Health insurance. Health insurance is a major cost driver for our personnel services. Uh you'll notice in fiscal year 2526 that it doesn't just say a percentage, it says based on enrollment. We are changing our methodology this
year and this is in response to everinccreasing costs for health insurance. There are some areas, some participants in our health plan that have um elected free family coverage. That changes the model. We provide the health
insurance as the county through our self- insurance fund and that self- insurance fund charges everybody that participates a rate. Corrections pays a rate. Solid Waste pays a rate. Sheriff's Office pays a rate. Everybody pays a rate. We operated off of a blended rate. That blended rate worked the way that
the plan was historically balanced. But as you have more and more people that are coming on with family coverage in the constitutional officers that have allowed for free coverage, it shifted that rate. Uh the county has uh a nice
um health plan and the amount that we charge for above for an employee to go to a family plan does not fully cover the cost of bringing those family members on board. So when you add a bunch of families and spouses, it has impacted the plan. So, we're shifting
our model. We've communicated this to all the constitutional officers. They've included it in their budgets, but we're shifting the model to actually charge based off of usage as opposed to a blended rate. That has allowed staff to keep the county maintained funds relatively stable because we haven't
made that shift where we're changing coverage. So, the overall increase for county funds is 6.4%. The percentages you see in the outy years are what we anticipate medical inflation will be. And this is based off of uh our healthcare consultant. Medical inflation has historically and is estimated to
continue to be significantly faster than regular inflation. The other two lines that I'll call out are liability. Sure. Is he taking questions as he goes or no? Sure. Okay. Matt was before me. Go ahead, Matt. I real quick just to clarify, you made a comment a while back something
about our credit rating going down. No, no, no. Not our credit rating. I thought you said hour and I was like I got a little concerned. I am a citizen of the United States. Gotcha. Okay. When you said our I thought oh my goodness. I thought we just The US credit rating was downgraded by Moody's. I'm sorry if I led it to believe that it was the
county's credit rating and Councilman Santiago. Thank you. Um about a minute ago I I I don't I'm kind of confused. So I need you to clarify what you mean. A minute ago you were talking about free family coverage
constitutional. What are you talking I What are you What are you referencing there? Our constitutional officers, the sheriff, the property appraiser, and the tax collector. Uh part of their benefits package is free health insurance for for family coverage. Is that any wherever they're at? Uh I believe the tax
collector is proposing to do it for this year and the property appraiser did it in the current budget year and the sheriff's has done it for a few years. And how much does that cost the county? It cost the sheriff through his budget. Um I'm just how much it cost Valuchia
County taxpayers when it's hard to put a a real number. We can bring that back for the with the next we're doing general fund of which is Yeah, I wasn't aware of that. So you're saying that the county doesn't do that? We don't do that. No, we don't. That's something new a trend that's
happening, right? The constitutional officers, they can do their own benefit package. We have an agreement with them to use our insurance. Um but uh but yeah, they can do their own benefits packages and so theirs right now uh not
all of them. I I think uh the elections has stayed with us and does exactly what we do. But uh the others have moved towards uh uh for their dependent uh offering uh full they pay for the full
coverage for the dependent. We do not do that. Corrections. They don't get that in corrections either. Oh, no. No. So, I mean, I I did not know that. Um there seems to be a new trend. We need to know the public needs to know what that money is because you're saying that Will Weatherford, our tax
collector, Will Weatherford, what is it? What is his name? Will what? Will Roberts um is now proposing this year to give free health coverage to all of his employees families. Is that what you just said? That he has not officially submitted his budget, but that's what we've heard. Okay. I don't like to
suggest news stories, but that's a good one. Thank you. The amount the taxpayer and I know that's not you and George. I know it might be a sensitive topic, but in times like this, people need to know where their tax dollars are going and where they're being
increased. So, thank you. We need to know the amount. Liability insurance and property insurance are the other lines that I'd like to call out. It's not that the this council just approved the premiums for our property insurance. They did not go down by 17%. But what the delta is is between the budget uh
for 25 and where we're going for 26. We had previously built in larger increases for property insurance. And by seeing that savings and then seeing um the savings in the liability lines, we're able to make a one-time reduction
to those lines. The first fund that we're covering for the 5-year forecast is the Vuchia Echo fund. It is presented at a flat rate, the 0.02 mills that was sorry.20 mills uh as the maximum millage that was
approved by the voters and the current millage rate. Uh you can see that the revenues across the top um with the growth in our estimated property values that I previously talked about. This fund uh also sits on a a
significant reserve as you can see on the bottom line that allows this fund to make investment revenues uh investment income as well. And then the third line is transferring interest back from the echo direct expenditure program. So as council approves echo direct expenditure
allocations, we transfer the money to a special capital projects fund just for echo county approved uh projects. That money earns interest while it's sitting over there, but that's not been approved towards that project. So when the project is done, we transfer the interest
back. Tax collector and property appraiser excess fees. Uh every year when the tax collector and property appraiser close the year out, any money that they have left over, they have to refund back to all the county funds. And this is one of them. uh personnel services, uh operating
expenditures, tax collector property appraiser commissions, and CRA payments comprise of what we call the operating expenditures, the year-to-year expenditures of this fund. You can see the $ 1.5 million trail set aside that Tim was referring to earlier today. The next line is the transfer to the Echo
County direct expenditure, and that is in line with the council approved plan that was previously approved. So, these are the amounts that would be transferred in each one of those years. The next line is the motocross facility. This was part of the approved budget from last year. This is what I was referencing before, chair, that this
fund did have an approved budget for that. Uh, and then the last line is the amount that we've set aside for echo grants. So, you can see that we've set aside $4.5 million for echo grants uh across the forecast. Last year, we set aside a little bit more because we knew some large grants that were coming through, but right now it's set at the
the 4.5 million. This fund does have reserves that grow, but that enables us for future large projects. We're aware of some community projects going on out there that may require some additional funding. The Valuchia forever fund, the
advalorum taxes are identical to the echo fund, so I won't go over that. The investment income, as this fund has increasing reserves, it increases its investment income as well. Um, that's why it's increased for 26. The inflation factor for the negative is why it
continues to go down. Operating expenditures are as listed. It continues to set aside 15% for trails management. And in this fund, we don't actually budget for the actual land acquisitions. As council approves them, we transfer that money from reserves. So all the money that's sitting aside for land
acquisitions is shown in the reserves. Um as council approves for for any of those purchases, all of those reserve lines would be impacted. Mosquito control fund. Mosquito control is presented here in the forecast at the estimated roll back millage rate. I say
estimated because we haven't gotten our July 1st property tax values from the property appraiser. That's when we can determine the official roll back rate. And then a flat millage rate in all future years. This fund uh has the the major story in this fund
would be as I referred to previously in the capital projects uh story the u uh agenda item the building right now we're transferring $1.7 million a year that's the transfer to capital project fund for new facility construction that is the last expenditure line on the forecast the
last expenditure line before the green operating expenditures is where it takes over in the outy years at the same amount being transferred for debt debt service. So basically, instead of transferring it to save up, we'll be transferring it to pay debt service. And it is anticipated that we would be able
to fund it at the exact same amount for debt service and construct it today. Hold on one second. That new facility that you're talking about that will be built on the same land it currently sits on now. So we won't have to acquire new land. That's correct. It's part of an agreement we already have with the
airport at uh New Smura Beach. Yes, sir. It's a lease. We did expand the lease to the adjacent vacant parcel so we can build and and keep the facility operating. But no, we're not acquiring any. What will happen to does that land in other words when the new facility is
built? Does that tear down the old structure and then give that back to them or do we No, actually what we're going to end up doing is the way the spacing works out is a lot of the areas where there's existing buildings will turn into storm water ponds. This fund can be uh present as it's
presented at the roll back rate. It can still fund the the capital needs and to fund that debt service. The Pon Deon Inlet and Port District is a similar story to the mosquito control fund. It's presented at the estimated roll back rate with a flat
rate in future years. This rate enables the fund to continue to set aside money for dredging projects which would be beneficial to the beach. Any spoils from those dredging projects can be used as as beach sand. Uh and this fund can afford to uh based on the submitted
budgets go to the estimated roll back rate. The first non- taxing fund is the solid waste fund. Uh the main reason that we're showing you this fund is because of the debt issuance. uh anytime that we're proposing a debt issuance, we will bring I will bring you that
forecast uh so that you can see that that's part of the proposed budget. Our budget document is very large and this needs to be called out that this is part of the plan because you will be asked to approve a debt issuance in the future. Um the way that we can afford the $50
million project for the new sale expansion is by issuing an estimated $ 38.7 million worth of debt. I'll tell you in the background, we've actually done more than 5-year forecasting on this fund. We've gone out 10 12 years to make sure because we know that the next
cell will have to be built approximately FY30. So that means we're going to need to take out another debt issuance anticipated in FY30. And we want to make sure that we don't have overlapping debt and we get to a place where we can't afford our debt payments. So we're we're planning well ahead in this fund and it
can be done. And this forecast can be executed to enable the landfill to continue to have space to put the garbage for a long time to come and uh at our current rate structure. Main reason we're showing you is because there's a debt. It's not because there's
a problem. And finally, the county transportation trust fund, the last fund that I'm presenting today. Uh you can see our different gas tax uh revenues, fuel tax revenues that are in the revenue section. We've broken them out separately so that you can see the 12 cents that county council is actually in
charge of levying versus the fourth line which is the state shared fuel taxes. There are actually uh a constitutional fuel tax and a county fuel tax that is levied by the state that's shared with us. The other lines are levied by the county. The 9th cent is not 9 cents. It
is a single cent just so happens to be called the ninth cent because that's the ninth cent that the legislature authorized between state and county levies. It is a single penny. It is not shared with municipalities which is why on a prata basis it looks higher than the other ones do. The other ones are
shared with municipalities and then the 5-cent does not have any diesel levy. So again on a pro rata basis it looks off if you were to try to compare. This fund also has charges for services. This is where the um road and bridge and traffic engineering divisions
if they do work for other entities especially traffic engineering with maintenance of state roads they charge outside entities for that work. Uh it has investment income from the from the reserves that it sits on and then of note we transfer $5 million a year from
the municipal service district taxing fund for the care of unincorporated roads. Total operating revenues are the green line subtotaling that. The blue line is the amount of money of reserves that we're using every year in the forecast to actually balance this fund
and they're going towards capital projects andor resurfacing. It really is just a matter of a flow assumption between those items. The expenditures um the personnel services operating uh capital outlay.
I've skipped resurfacing. um those are all um estimated to continue with the regular inflationary factors. Those are all for caring for our existing road system, road networks, traffic signals uh and uh everything that we take care
of with our existing assets. Resurfacing is also for existing assets, but it's separately called outline item because it's a contract that we bid out and it is of size. As you can see, the final line in that section is reimbursements. So, not only does this
fund charge out external entities like the FDOT or cities for work that they do on traffic signals or other traffic work, but it also charges out other departments or divisions in the county like storm water or if they do a project out at Solid Waste or they do beach
ramps out at coastal maybe on like a hurricane project or something like that. All those reimbursements are shown as negative expenditures under an accounting standard. If you add the two together, this fund does $5 million worth of work outside of the fund. That
helps offset those ongoing maintenance expenditures that you see. The percent of total operating revenue, which is the two green lines, how they relate to each other. Uh this year in the 25 budget, they were at 98%. because of the fact
that we were able to see that we had like what appears to be a one-time bump or correction in gas tax revenues. Perhaps some of it's related to BIES. I'm not sure. Uh because of that, the percentage dropped to 91%. It's mainly
because of the extra little bit of gas tax revenues, but we don't anticipate that kind of growth in fuel taxes going forward. That is not normal. Normally, fuel taxes grow at a very steady rate. So you can see by the end of the forecast, we get back to that 96%. So that's telling you that of all the
revenues you're collecting and the operating revenues, the operating expenditures are that percentage of it. So your resurfacing program, part of your maintenance is part of what those operating revenues help cover. Um again there is a flow assumption that
you can make that maybe it's the reserves that are paying for resurfacing and the new money is going towards construction projects but you can see the relationship between the two green lines. The capital improvement program is very similar to what we presented already. It's just shown that this is
the pieces related to this fund. So I'm not going to cover all those items. You can see the reserves in this fund at the very bottom of this slide going from 26 million to 17 million and all of that's being spent on capital. The next steps is the second
set of forecasts will be at the next council meeting which will be the rest of the taxing funds and the funds that relate to the general fund. So emergency medical services and beach management. uh final values we'll receive from the property appraisers office on or before
July 1st. Then we can take the word estimated off of our roll back rates and figure out the actual roll back rate. That being said, in the past there's not been a very big difference between these values. They're pretty consistent. And the recommended budget will be presented to council on July 22nd at which time tenative mill rates will be set for the
trim notices. Any questions on the remainder of the forecasts that I presented? Councilman Johansson. No questions. Waiting for comments. Go ahead. You can start. Thank you, sir. Um, a couple things. Ryan, thanks for
the brief. Um, I you said many times and that comes from reserves. Um, a lot of times during the during the year, especially this time of year, uh, people start communic
communicating to us that our reserves are plentiful and why why are they so why is the reserve so big? Um, and and then I see you shifting millions of dollars out of it to pay for things. Um,
uh, in this year and the out years. Uh, is there any way that you can not staff a slide but but citizen a slide that shows what our reserves are and where
the money is going. Uh, a simple slide. It doesn't have to be pretty. It doesn't have to be multicolored. just to show people that of the millions of dollars we have in in reserves, it's not just sitting there for us to use for whatever
we want. It every dollar pretty much is there for a purpose, right? With the with the note one, FEMA might not always give us what we want in the future. And note two, um we have some coastal stuff
and other big projects that that we haven't really even talked about yet. we have and we can work on maybe reducing it. In every budget book there is a reserve section where it has all the reserves all on a single place.
That's ugly. And we need a citizen it. We'll work on trying to reduce that. Yeah. And I think for for me actually Yeah. What we've tried to do and we'll continue to point out what's really an emergency reserve. That's really the
true uh unassigned unassigned money. Right. All the other is really a savings account where you guys have picked out and previous councils have picked out these projects and things that we want to do or we need to expand or we have to
rehabilitate and it's a savings account. Sure. For that the fire truck we're going to buy in 10 years. Exactly. So, it's not truly when I know some people think of reserve, they think of it all as an emergency reserve and that's not really the case. That's a much smaller percentage and you'll see that in the
general fund thing next week, too. I mean, he is burning these things down and these projects as we tick them off, you're getting uh that number gets down to a number that starts getting us a little nervous, especially with this talk about FEMA and
reducing FEMA. Uh, you know, there there are guidelines when we go to FEMA meetings and such, you know, as a coastal community, they would want us to even have more money than we than we do today. and that's their signal of saying we may not be here or we may not be able
to fund you uh in the manner that uh has occurred in the past. So that's that's that's very important. So we'll work out a better way of showing if we can just make it something that people can glance at and go ahuh. The other thing that I would add to that is just for the vast
majority I'm sure there's an exception somewhere like the echo fund is a good exception to it. the the reserves are growing in the echo fund and and the forever fund until we make pro uh purchases for the good majority of funds when we're pulling from reserves that is
just carryover from last year. So the reserves are almost exclusively funded by last year's carryover. So you see the same number over and over and over again because we're keeping that money aside for emergencies or we're saving for future capital projects and then one project comes out and another project
keeps saving. So it looks like there's a static amount of money, but some of it is for emergency reserves as George was alluding to, right? But other of it is saving for capital projects and that money is being carried over and it counts in every budget year after year after year. That is not the actual
revenue, the the the new money that we're getting or the new money that we're spending. There's a big difference and and sometimes when you're comparing to a city budget, sure, that is where it's the most predominant because by state statute, we are actually required to budget for all of our carry forward
money. In a city budget, the only fund balance that you'll see spent is the amount that's needed to balance the budget. The rest of it, you don't see in that number. We have to budget the whole fund balance and then budget end with a fund balance. Right. No, I'm I'm perfect with that. Uh the
second thing is is kind of a a shot across the bow to my fellow council members that that uh um now is the time to dig into some of this stuff and talk to Ryan and and and George and Suzanne
and the team uh to come up with brilliant ways to start knocking down the millillage if that's what you want to do, not not the end of July. Um so uh I know it makes you sneeze. Um, and so,
um, uh, I I suggest we start those those conversations in earnest early and, uh, if you haven't done so yet. So, that's all I have. Thank you, chairman. Thank you. At this stage, we can be surgical and the and the knife wounds are
smaller. Later, we have to pull out a chainsaw and then it's a lot more indiscriminate and there's a lot more uh, pain and suffering. So, earlier the better. Thank you. All right. Thank you,
Ryan. Good job. You've got some direction. And uh is Tad in the room? We'll go to item 12, contract with GPS Civil Construction, Inc. for the roundabout. Motion to approve. Second.
Don't sell it. You'll sell yourself. I like roundabouts. Okay. The motion to approve the funding for the roundabout at Pioneer Trail on Tammoka Farms Road was made by Councilman Robbins. And I didn't catch who made the
second. I did. Second by David Santiago. Any questions? Amazing presentation. Any comments? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed.
Is Mr. Kent in the room? No. Good job, Ted. I believe Mr. Kent left the meeting. So that is 5. He won't. So he won't be coming back at a doctor's appointment. Item 13, approval of public housing
agency 5-year plan for fiscal fiscal year 2025 to 30. Good afternoon, Carmen Hall, community assistance director. This item is really quick. It is our five-year plan for our public housing agency. This is our section 8 program. It is a um
public hearing. At this time, we haven't received any public comments to include in the p in the plan unless there are any now. Carissa. All right. So, with that being said, all we need is approval so we can submit to move the motion. Second. We beat you, Danny. Motion to
approve by David Santiago. Second was Was it you or Danny? It was Vice Chair Reinhardt. Questions, comments? All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? I'm so That one's approved. 5 to zero as
well. And the last item of the day is an appointment for the educational facilities authority. Anybody can make the nomination. We have one one applicant. Correct. Correct. You have one applicant. Um and the previous
person their term expired and they did not wish to be reappointed. Um at least one member needs to be of uh higher education. However, they we've already met the requirement. So, well, this person is higher education as
well, aren't they? Correct. Chairman, I'll make the nomination. Uh, Mr. Jose Bernier. Okay. Second. Councilman Robbins nominates uh Jose Bernier and uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt
makes a second. Any questions? All in favor say I. I. I. It's approved. Five to zero. Mr. Bernie. Okay. And we have uh one person
for a closing public comment. Uh John Nicholson. Yeah, you know the drill. John, dide. Couple of things. One, I noticed in your uh presentation about the courthouse. Um I'd like to get my
two cents in before it gets too far. I'd like you to think about selling the property uh that portion that the county owns facing or on Beach Street so that the city can put in uh condominiums.
That location would probably bring in million-doll condos. It is across from a park. It Riverview, Ocean View, it is near downtown and it is across from the News Journal Center. So it is all the
attributes of having a very good uh sale on condos. Uh we absolutely need bodies in downtown. We have very few and those that are living downtown are basically hut housing um which you don't get a lot
of sales from. So secondly um Tori is gone but um Orman has a builtin uh millillage for infrastructure for their roads. I I brought it up before. So, now that you're thinking about it, I would encourage you to I
know you're planning on all these other things and getting all this money from wherever, but having a basis for money doesn't hurt. Uh especially when you're applying for grants and you need a match. So, uh it doesn't have to be huge, but at least some money coming every year dedicated to roads helps
because the federal grants are not coming like they used to. Um again, half penny sales tax. No, there's an absolute two nos on half penny sales tax, but at $50 million a
year, you guys can do an awful lot with 50 million bucks a year. And I know you don't you Republicans, you don't like taxing, you want to lower the millage, however, but these things have to be paid for. At some point, you're going to have to dig deep and pay for these
things. And the idea of, well, we can't afford it right now. we'll wait another 10 years and then we'll be able to do something. That doesn't work anymore. There just too many people coming into town and you absolutely need to to have that. Um, and lastly, when we talk about
affordable housing, uh, I know, uh, that again, picking on Jeff, um, that you don't want any more development. You don't want any more houses, but you have to realize, I was listening to a a comment on the radio that this poor guy has a hard time
paying rent. It's only 6,400 a month. All right. Now, we don't have that yet, but we do have some that are four and 500,000 uh four and 5,000 a month. But if you don't have housing, the housing that remains, the rent is going to go
up. It's it's supply and demand. So, if you limit the amount of housing that you have, then that housing that you do have will increase in value. The rents that you have will increase in value. So, be careful about cutting out housing. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, John.
And that takes us to the county managers. Uh, I have nothing today. Thank you. And that takes us to the county attorneys. Nothing today, sir. Okay. Uh, for the council members, uh,
Councilman Robbins, you're first today. Nothing today, sir. And this is we're starting a trend. Will we keep it, Councilman Santiago? Wow. I was going to say nothing but it's it's uh it's comment's fault that I wanted to share a story. Sorry, Mr. Chair, but that's
okay. Regarding affordable housing, I just wanted to share a story. I went to uh our local one of our local banks uh about two or three weeks ago do normal banking and I met this young lady young family um and she recently bought her
house and um the second year came around and I don't know how we got into the conversation but we started talking about taxes property taxes and um she told me that when she bought the house she knew that the previous owner was paying about $900 a year in taxes. is
and when she got her first tax bill in the final follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow fin follow final year was almost $4,000 and I just want to highlight that to show that how the tax system in our state is broken because the person that was there at 900 didn't get any less services than the person who is now
there at 4,000 and it was kind of sad to see the look on her face because young starting family now paying $4,000 for taxes on a property so I don't have a lot of confidence that the legislaturator is going to find solutions this year, but I I am I am
optimistic that they have this committee together to try to come up with solutions to fix our broken property tax system in this state. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a good point. It's a story we all hear, I think, because nobody shows them or talks about
u our local property tax laws. Uh Jake Johansson. Oh, I didn't think I was uh going to be up that quick. And it is interesting, but that that person that paid
900 also bought that house 30 years ago for 50 grand and enjoyed Homestead, right? Um I moved here 10 years ago and the same thing happened. And then the guy said, "Well, look at the price of your house compared to what it was originally sold for." or so. Um, so I I
get it, I guess. Uh, I don't like the tax, don't get me wrong. Um, we heard uh the item on the tower today and the the the fact that we have
some arbitrary what I think is an arbitrary number of a,000 ft because somebody said how about a thousand um which is what it's sounding like was um at
It bothers me. It bothers me. And And so, you know, my mantra has always been, let's follow the rules, right? That's what we all want to do. When it says a thousand, Danny brought it up. Is 748 less than a,000? Yes. Then we're
going to follow the rules. But if the rules are wrong, let's change them. And I think it's very important that we take a good look at why a th00and's a thousand and if it should be 500 or should be three
times the height of the of the tower or based on the engineering 94 ft which kind of would scare me if I was living 100 feet away from a 250 uh foot uh uh tower that that we do
that. So, I would like to make a motion to to look at all regulations like that if you can, Clay. I don't know uh how many there are and come back with some scientific
reasons why we're doing what we're doing. or at least provide me a list and and take a stab at this one now and provide us a list of of all the other arbitrary setbacks and standoffs uh of
things that we do here in the county and and try to fix them. And I I know that's in the bigger picture of of speeding up regulation and permitting and things that are preventing people from doing what they should be doing. Um but if you
can take a look at that, that's my motion, sir. Second. Okay. Is there a short version of your of the motion? Yeah. take a look at the the tower standoff regulation and to see
if that based on based on science to see if the thousand ft is okay. Yes, please. Okay. And Councilman Robbins, you made the second. Yes, sir. All right. Any questions or comments
about that? All in favor of say I. I. Any opposed? So staff will bring it back for us. And uh the last thing I have is uh I'm a member of the um Ahack affordable
housing advisory council. U we met at the EOC and and one of our members is a a huge uh ADU tiny home supporter and he mentioned to me that we don't allow
manufactured homes. Um, I had a conversation with uh Donna Butler and she said, "Actually, we're using manufactured homes, I think, for transform 386. I don't particularly know where.
Um, but I want to be able I think a couple a couple months ago, last year sometime, we allowed u mobile homes on uh on properties that we didn't previously do that to. I'd like to make
sure that that we're maximizing the ability to use ADUs um manufactured homes and and less so tiny homes. I don't think tiny
homes I don't know maybe that's more of a a a municipality thing but um is there any is there any way we can maybe do a tiny home beta program somewhere within the county or partner
with the city to see if that would work. Um I know there's a church in Deltona that was going to try it but I don't know if it worked out. Um, but I'd like to to kind of dabble in that and see why we can or can't do it. Uh, we just
talked about, Mr. Nicholson just talked about affordable housing. Uh, I know these aren't for everybody, but Valuchia County uh, leads the way in a lot of areas and and this might be another opportunity
for us to try something and if it works, stick with it. If it doesn't work, then go, hey, it's it's not for us. It's not working and uh um it it needs to happen more in the cities, in the inner cities than than it does in the in the county.
Uh but maybe we can lead the way. I'm I'm not sure. So, I think that's worthwhile. Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. In relation to that, Mr. Johansson, over two years ago, there was a list of properties. you know where I'm
going on this and I asked for one of them to be removed from that list to sell. It was a 20 acre parcel that was in district two. Uh we had issues with gaining access to that property, but I guess we've gained access to that property now. Could that be a possible
location for this idea of Mr. Johansson's or have we gotten another plan since then? I I know we had brought up about the tiny homes before. there wasn't much of an appetite for it, but this may be the perfect location for that. I don't know.
So, as as Russ is sharing with me, that uh property is in the city of Daytona. We're still going through the process to get it get the easement to provide access to us. We haven't we haven't gained the easement yet, right? I just got an update last month and I believe uh through the attorney from the developer and they're in the process of
going through the city review and they're supposed to give us an easement once they get through. If that easement is on the forefront, is that something we can look at to entertain the motion made by Mr. Johansson? Yeah. I I just want to see one work or see if it works. See it built and see if it works. I
don't even if we took a portion doesn't either. Yeah. It might be something Daytona wants to partner with even though it's our our property. So, as you remember, we went out um to bid to try to sell some of the lots. We went out twice and we're successful with about half of them. So, we still do have that
list and several others. We'll look at it as we explored the the uh request by Yeah, this is the 20 acre parcel. Okay. Thank you, Deputy County Manager Suzanne Con. Thank you, Mr. Chair. On the uh house size discussion that council's
been uh talking about the last few minutes, we do have a minimum home size requirement in our land development code. I know it came to my attention recently because of a a mobile home uh uh request that came in within a mobile
home park and it occurred to me that might be one worth exploring. If it's uh the pleasure of this council, I'd like to add that to our list of things to take a look at. It may not be appropriate to change it for all properties in the county, but maybe for
some. So, yeah, in designated areas. I Um Jake, that that's a that's a worthy thing to bring back to us. I I would love to see a some kind of a tiny home village for um for vets that
are that need low income housing. Um is there property around First Step that could be used for that? I know there's a lot of extra property. Well, I think there's a lot of extra property there, isn't there? Well,
the city the city has 600 acres. I know they have plans for a lot of land, so I don't know. I mean, a lot of it's slated for uh they're going to build a regional uh park in there. So, but we can
certainly inquire, but that's and once you get to the other side of that, now you're into the um Tiger Bay State Forest, right? Yeah. And I'll just say I think Victoria did have some she's applied for some grant funds to do that in the past um but was not successful.
So I I know that there are conversations about that going on as a transitional. Happy to report though and this relates to veterans that you know last year our point in time count in January counts our homeless veterans in both shelters and um our street outreach where there
was um a little over 65 the previous year. this year. Happy to report 21 reporting veteran status. So, we've made a significant impact there. Good. Uh, one more thing. Thank you, chair. Um, with respect to transitional
housing, uh, and other people that are looking for that. Um, I'm on that DAC board, domestic abuse council, that property that is in that location is huge. uh and there has been uh conversations amongst the board that to start going in that avenue to look for
transitional housing smaller. In other words, not all of the we can't accommodate uh the total space inside designated for that, but those individuals will need some sort of housing transitionally to go on to other locations. So, they are looking at that as well. Just future reference, but that
also in the city of Daytona. Has has anybody else, council or staff, seen I've I've seen this often on social media, so you know it's got to be true that there's a there's a tiny home
uh by Tesla for under $10,000 that also doesn't require power because it's solar. It's got Tesla batteries in it. Nobody's seen it under $10,000. I'm shocked. The batteries alone are probably Well, I've seen I've seen some
social media discussion. I don't know. Again, I don't know if it's true, but yeah, there has been some stuff out there that says he's developed a uh a battery operated home, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. And they also have a picture of me with hair up to salesman.
Joking. Okay, Jake, did you wrap it up? Yeah. So, that's all I have. Yeah. If I need to make a motion or do we have consensus to to have staff bring that? You got enough, George? Yep. I have enough. Yeah. All right. I think you got That's
all I have, sir. 100% support. Uh, Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. Thank you, sir. Um, yesterday I had the opportunity to do a a ride along with um Beach Safety, uh, which opened up my eyes to a lot of stuff. we had approved
the software for them that I saw what it's capable of. Kudos for that. Um to be able to geograph exactly where hotspots are for everything from jellyfish things to rescues. Um so that is great for staffing purposes. I know
that was a concern of Mr. Kent with respect to lifeguards. Um I finally got to meet Jack Driscoll. Did you? Yes. Yeah. What a beast. He went out there and schooled those young kids out there in their drills. And then when I got to watch drills, what you
went through, I I commend you. Um, were you were you wearing a suit during the No, no, no, no. That won't be won't be necessary. Um, also, um, yeah. No, I do have some pictures, but not of that. U, the,
um, my thanks, uh, go out to, uh, Chief Malf and Deputy Chief Jenkins, who I rode with. um 29 new recruits from what I understand uh for the summertime. So that's amazing. Uh great great recruiting efforts done by beach uh so
the beach services. So I commend uh all that staff out there doing that. Um that being said, um Jenna, if you could pull up those pictures. I took some pictures yesterday. I know, uh Mr. Nicholson.
There's our our barge that's out there right now. That's one of the two barges actually that are out there right now. I know John Nicholson had asked about the progress. So, I'm going to I'm going to show you some to the next one. That's our new walkway there that's completely open
now and finished. Awesome job. Way to go, Jessica. So, that is the stockpile of sand right there. And you see the water running out. Um, I will tell you, Jesse, I have to share this with you. I know that in social media about the catfish
issue and but there was one catfish that was flown out, one and Deputy Chief Jenkins literally got out of his truck, grabbed the fish, and threw it back in the water. I love that. There's just some more pictures of
the huge dredging project. John, it is happening. Okay, I think another one there. There was There we go. That was an awesome site. Those trucks going back and forth and they're starting at Sunung Globe and working their cell their way back. Uh
just so you know, um the entire if I'm correct me if I'm mistaken, um the dredging of the inter coastal waterway that that you saw that barge that was doing that uh in addition to what we'd like to do with respect to the sholes will give us anywhere from 1.7 to 2.2 2
million cubic yards of beach compatible sand for the beach, which is huge. So, and there was just another picture of uh the trucks that are there were more people out there taking pictures of the trucks. They were just an amazement. They thought it was the coolest thing. I did too, as you can
see, I'm taking pictures as well. So, and there's of the Sunlow Pier where it's when they're coming back. I don't know if I got any pictures of actual Sununglow here where they're where they're stockpiling the sand. Yeah, they're coming back from lunch. There it is. Yes, I did. So,
that's where it's being laid out to start with and it'll work its way south. And we hope that we'll have enough to go north of that afterwards. Here lies the problem identified. I didn't really think about it. Getting those trucks underneath that pier. I don't know if that's you might have to
hit the hard top in order to transport that sand north of any pier. So, that is a concern. But day one, this is day one of the trucking of it. Uh I wanted to make sure we had pictures of that. I'm very proud of uh our staff and the way they're handling it. There were no incidents that we had, but they're
already looking at safer ways to do it. Even though no problems were identified, they're looking at a specific lane just for the trucks. One thing I observed, I know there were some social media issues about uh the towing of vehicles that get stuck out there. Our staff do a
phenomenal job letting know, hey, you need four-wheel drive to get through this. And yet minivans are getting stuck left and right. And uh my favorite was uh somebody had a minivan yesterday and they got themselves stuck. It was a front-wheel drive. They literally got
out and broke and ripped up a uh cardboard box from a Dr. pepper box like you know how thin that cardboard is to stick it underneath the tire. We had to break their hearts and tell them that wasn't going to work. So needless to say, but thank you very much Jennifer showing that. I just wanted to make sure
we showed that. And um also some of the safety issues that our beach protection is doing. Um I noticed a couple times throughout the day and I talked to you Suzanne yesterday on the phone that they literally get out and look around the vehicle. If their vehicle sitting stationary for a period of time, they get out and walk around the vehicle.
that is a policy of theirs. So, I commend them for taking the measures necessary for everybody's safety. Uh on another issue, uh I mentioned the domestic abuse council that I do sit on uh coming up in the future. Uh it's not until August, the end of August, but I want to make sure everybody is aware of
it. They're doing a a bolathon fundraiser uh for the purpose of raising funds for that domestic abuse center. If you've not seen that center, it needs a lot of love. It is it is deteriorating. Uh so they um are trying to raise the funds in order to fix it up. Um so they
are encouraging there will be some flyers coming out. They're encouraging teams to get together. Uh we as a council could take on a city of Deltona. Just a thought. So anyways, and then lastly
um that I want to talk about uh storm preparation and the sandbagging uh the staging of which um I know we talked about it briefly before. Um you know we are now officially Sunday into hurricane season.
We talked about preparation. We talked about helping people. There have been a couple cities that have reached out um asking for help. Um the uh I had some data that I thank you for uh EOC that supplied some data with relation. I'm not going to get into
all that, but it did not go to waste. I want to let uh EOC know that I I'm going to hang on to that data. it wasn't wasted, but um I'm not going to take and go through the all the numbers and whatnot, but they were astronomical with respect to homes, single family homes
that were damaged. Um and if you remember the lines, and we talked about this a little bit last time, uh with respect to uh the sandbag uh that we were giving away at the jail, um the lines that went all the way down 92 that were blocking traffic and and safety
wise, I don't think that's the safest thing. So, I'd like to see if we could look at We already have a plan. You do? Okay. And it involves not being at the jail uh like we Okay, good. So, we can stage it elsewhere. So, some of the cities were Yeah. The fairgrounds will
be the place where there'll be a a pickup, but again, we'll be encouraging that for the elderly and for people who can't do it. For everybody else, it's going to be like it has been for the last 50 years. uh um they're preparing
well and we'll have places for do-it-yourself. Uh you know those those at the jail were at the time we're supposed to be identified for those that couldn't do it and everybody started hopping on it. But we're moving that to the uh fairgrounds but it will be again
we're asking people reserve that for the for the elderly and the and the you know people who can't do it themselves and the rest do it yourself. So we will will we have other locations other than the fairgrounds as far as what you're saying? Yeah, but the fairgrounds will
take the place of the jail in terms of So some of the other locations I was thinking about Edgewater. Um Danny, well they have a list of where we do it and we work in and we work in conjunction with the cities. Okay. Thank you very One of the issues we get into just why it's not maybe a little bit more
integrated is because in some cities they want to limit uh just to their residents and then that becomes a little bit more of an issue. If they drop that and it makes it a lot easier to work together and just you know go ahead and
get the bags and get and get moving. So but we've worked deals with some of them where we provide maybe the bags, we provide the sand, one or the other. But again, we have a lot of good cooperation. Don't don't get me wrong. But I just think where there's been a little bit of sometimes has to do with
with that issue of where are you really from? You know, when they show their ID and all that. So, uh, as we hopefully migrate to a little bit more integrated, we'll make that a little bit easier. Okay. And, um, the last thing,
uh, Marine Science Center. We're getting ready to open that back up. Very excited about that. I'll be out there for that. Uh looking forward to I forget the date of that is I think June 23rd ribon cutting and uh the fourth 24th they
actually are officially open reopen. Excellent. Looking forward to that. So that's been closed for a while. Looking forward to seeing what they uh modifications that were made. And that's all I got here. Thank you. Okay. Um, I'm not picking on you, vice
chair, but um, if I could make a motion, I would make a motion that this council and staff is not allowed to use the, uh, h word anymore because we can't a we can't afford to participate in any more
county Yeah. any cyclonic activities counterclockwise this season. Um, absolutely. And yes, I was going to mention the marine science center. George, you just said that the ribbon cutting is 23rd.
The the the uh real opening to the public is the 24th. For the 23rd for the public that comes, is there a a charge to get in? I think on the 23rd it's an open house and and celebration. So I don't ex with
limited space. Do you know Clay? Well, we'll confirm that to council. It is limited space, but I I would encourage the public to come out. It's a it's a fantastic facility. It's going to be even better. So, I'd encourage people to come out and and take out a a family
membership or a yearly membership uh for the Marine Science Center. Um, and last uh Russ, I didn't I didn't ask you in advance. I was looking to see if John Booker's still here. I I don't
see him. Oh, can one of you, whoever is best prepared, just give us a quick rundown? There's a lot of people still asking about bills that haven't either gone to the governor, haven't been signed, they're still in session, we still don't
have a budget. So, bills like Senate Bill 180. What is the deadline for those? Is he you told me last week or this week that they had to end of the month? Somebody told me no, that's not
true. Well, you would probably know this. June 30, get paid. So, uh I just checked this morning. Senate Bill 180 has not been sent to the governor. So, once that bill is and they do this in tanches. So,
they'll send 10 bills to the governor's office. Excuse me. Let him um sign or veto those bills and then they'll send another 10 bills or so. So, right now the um waiting on those bills to be sent
to him. As of this morning, they had not been. And then he has 14 days to sign this. Okay. From whatever that date is, correct? Even if they're out of session. Yes. Yes. Been. Okay. So, they're they're still technically in session. I
mean, well, right now. Right now, they are. But if they said it the last day of session, it's still 14 days. He still has 14 days out of session. Okay. Thank you. They'll even send bills after session, will they? Mhm. Okay. As long as it's
passed both chambers. Okay. And then the last question. Uh let's see. Jessica Suzanne, you would probably know the the sand. All the pictures he just showed us that's all part of that deal is that it will be planted and it will be planted. I
thought that was for a sand castle tournament soon before the northeasterlys come this winter and remove it all. Jessica Fentress, coastal director of Alicia County. Uh in addition to placing the sand on the beach, we are doing trap bag debris removal simultaneously as a requirement
of a permit. So that's important to get out there. We are removing county installed trap bags as part of the sand placement. It will be planting the dune as well. The pictures that Mr. Reinhardt showed, uh yesterday was truly day one. Um they got about 80 loads on the beach.
They have not gone through their final grooming of the slope yet and they're still trying to increase their efficiencies. Um just like riding a bicycle, every project you have kind of a ramp up phase and then when you figure out how to do it cleanly and efficiently, you start running. Uh they will do it in segments. Um once we get a
good stretch of dune built, then we'll go in behind it and plant it. They'll be required to water it and maintain it for a while. Sand is sacrificial. I cannot promise it will be there next week. Um I'm I'm honestly praying for a really good tide event that comes over the burm just to solve some of these four-wheel
drive problems that we have. Um but we are moving. We're moving efficiently. The Army Corps of Engineers is supposed to wrap up their dredging project by the end of September. The dredge should be leaving town. They have until the end of October to fully demob out of the park and and pull all their safety
requirements and all that stuff. So, we anticipate to be running trucks with sand probably through this winter. Um maybe March is when we're hoping, you know, favorable seas uh to get through the full 900,000 cubic yards. But starting in October, we give we're going
to give the green light hopefully in the next council session, we're going to bring the Rattlesnake Island before you uh for offload to New Smyrna, which in addition to Mr. Reinhardt's numbers is an additional 550,000 cubic yards specific for New Smyrna Beach. Great. That will be planted as well.
Thank you very much. Appreciate it. And with that, at 256, we are adjourned.