##VIDEO ID:h4sTjT1geOA## [Music] [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] a [Music] w [Music] w [Music] w [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] [Music] I [Music] y [Music] [Music] oh [Music] w [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] you [Music] [Music] go spread it around [Music] St [Music] us know myself just noticing I saw I saw the one like two hours ago that replied [Laughter] to oh yeah he did yeah he there's okay if everybody wants to find a seat we will get started wasn't planned fact we were quite appalled this morning motion to approve who's vice mayor oh he left our vice mayor's not here okay thank you all very much we will call the uh County council meeting back into session at 6:00 p.m. uh public hearing on the annual budget um George Mr chair thank you why don't you start this meeting we'll do uh okay what the purpose of today's meeting uh is to uh well first of all it's required by Florida statute 200.0 65 we're here to discuss the millage rates and the percentage increase over roll back we applicable we're here to explain the reasons for the proposed increase over roll back which in the general fund is pretty simple we simply cannot absorb the $3.4 million growth in the cost of SunRail uh it's also the opportunity for the public to speak and ask questions uh this meeting will tentatively set the millage rates the final adoption will be set at the next meeting and we will set the recommended budget uh the same way for final adoption at the second meeting and we'll also uh set that meeting uh at the end here and uh which of course will be uh two weeks from tonight so that being said uh that is our purpose and I'm going to turn it over here to the our budget director Aon van cleat who has along with the team and I I do want to say for those who maybe first time or they haven't been following budget process didn't just start yesterday this is something we've worked on typically it gets worked on in Earnest from January on to to today's date so we'll have a couple months reprieve but we right back at it in January uh I know we've already had discussions here where we'll be talking about roads and other things for next year also our Capital programs uh usually start Capital Equipment those idea those things start really in January and we worked through the year and many of the meetings we've had and of course we uh back in June did the fiveyear forecast which is really trying to budget in a five-year increment so people can see not only what's happening this year but what's uh what we're up against for challenges in the future but we only adopt one budget at at a time and of course the millage rates were tentatively set in July and uh you guys gave us Direction here at the very last meeting in August uh to bring those millit rates back to what we had originally proposed we'll go over that in a minute and uh and that brings us here today to the first of the two budget hearings that are required take it away eron eron before you start let me just add this because it's a little different than our normal meetings where we always start with public participation we would like the public to hear your presentation first and so later on we will have public participation before the council even discusses it so I didn't want anybody to think they were going to be left out go ahead all right so as George mentioned we did have changes from the previous council meeting that we are uh presenting here today the general fund millage rate was reduced from the 32862 tentative rate that was set July 16th to uh the new rate of 3.27 which is uh the general fund rate is at the roll back rate plus the increased cost of SunRail the operating budget was reduced uh from the 1.3 billion uh 1327 to 1322 that differen is the 5 million that we were uh that we were proposing for roads and then the non-operating budget was reduced as well because the the roads were going into a capital fund so while we were leving that money in the operating we were then transferring it to non-operating so it wasn't $10 million it was that same 5 million we just have to count it in both places which is again why I say you should never add the operating budget and non-operating budget together because it is double counting those numbers this gives you a mill rate comparison of all of our taxing funds uh compares to 23 24's adopted rates and also cares compares to the 2425 rollback rate for each fund we have four rates that have been reduced five rates that are kept flat including the forever in Echo programs the voter approved programs and then one rate that has increased which is the law enforcement fund for uh countywide law enforcement services so as far as where the rates are compared to rollback in the general fund this gives you a look at what the 3.27 MS levies and what the 31437 MS the difference of the 3.3 million is dedicated to the increased cost of SunRail so that is the only difference we are where we're at between roll back and and the recommended rate in the law enforcement fund this gives you that same comparison of avalor tax revenue at the 1.5 n94 which is the recommended Mill uh compared to the roll back rate of 13452 the additional avalor tax revenue in this fund is to fully fund the sheriff's budget request and uh to satisfy C countywide law enforcement needs valua forever and Echo this is their comparison to rollback in each of those funds is an additional $78,750 million in adorm tax revenue that revenue is dedicated to the additional cost for police patrol in the unincorporated area so remember the MSD is for unincorp at valua the sheriff is the patrol Agency for unincorporated valua we don't pay for that out of the countywide law enforcement we pay for that with unincorporated so just like a city has to Levy for their law enforcement this is the unincorporated area levying for the patrol of of unincorporated the Port Authority comparison the additional tax uh revenue is going to in coastal dredging and Beach renourishment we are putting aside money for that you guys know the issues that we're dealing with there and then the fire comparison to roll back the additional revenue is dedicated to funding the union agreement that was approved earlier this year I believe it was earlier this year and then the capital needs we have Station 15 Station 22 and station 34 that are all under relocation or remodel uh operations now this gives you a look at the total recommended budget which includes reserves for each of our taxing funds and then what the ADV valorum revenue is going to be for 2425 based on the recommendations that are before you today this gives you a look at the countywide operating revenues by category um the adorm taxes are at 29.6% the CRA pass through is also adorm taxes but it's just adorm taxes we collect and then we pass right through the community redevelopment agencies that we have there's 18 of them this is the countywide operating expenditures by category just gives you a look at a categorical breakdown of our entire Opera budget you see the reserves at 28.4% that ties back to the fund balance from the previous slide you see 36.8% 36.8% of fund balance at 486 million we are using the difference between that 486 and the 377 of onetime money throughout all of our funds in this year's budget so we are using a substantial amount of fund balance to fund this year's budget and at this time unless there's any questions from Council we can go to public participation and then we can go back to the presentation I just just have one it's not really a question but to ask you to uh explain for the public a little bit more about uh the sheriff's the law enforcement budget um that I think it's important for the public to know that you and Ryan don't said that the council doesn't said it the the sheriff department and his employees said it because they know what they need better than than we do um so is that everything I just said true it's 100% true the sheriff does his budget requests they know what their operation and what their needs are and we set the mill Council sets the millage rate based on funding that budget in its entirety so the vote for that tax rate is a vote to fund the sheriff's budget question councilman Santiago yes follow up to that um are are any of those other Lineum milled cap or it's just uh our millage cap I know some other ones are but so there's two different millage caps we could be talking about there's the aggregate because your 10 mil cap right if you're a city you're a 10 mil cap the county has an aggregate cap as well of 10 mills um and then there's the cap for the law enforcement fund so this this year that we're in now is the first year that we levied a millage in the law enforcement fund it's formerly known as the fine and forfeiture fund and so it allows you to Levy up to two Mills for law enforcement needs and so that's what we are doing that's what we did last year by levying that so that is capped at two Ms now if you were to reach that two two mil cap in the fine and forfeiture fund the funding for the sheriff would just roll to the general fund at that point if you were if his budget exceeded that two mil cap um because at the end of the day that was done under a statute an old statute there's only two other counties uh besides us that Levy a millage for the fine and forfeiture fund and it's basically general fund it's still countywide right it's still countywide fund um but it is just for countywide law enforcement so there's two different caps thank you thank you Mr chair welcome one other thing on the same subject uh if the council was to the sheriff submits his budget if the council voted to not accept it um what happens basically um it would go to the governor uh the governor would make the decision on whether or not to uh support the sheriff or support the council correct okay getting I'm getting a lot of questions about that so I just want it to be clear to the public councilman Santiago does anybody in staff know whether or not there's ever been a movement to make all constitutional officers uh separate line item with their own individual millage accountability so you can't do that for the tax collector and the Property Appraiser's office they are did you say can't can't they are commission based offices so they get a commission based off of so for the property appraiser it's a commission based on the adorm taxes each entity levied in the prior year um now the cities and the school board don't pay the property appraiser commissions the county has to pay them by Statute uh but it is broken down like that you're just funding the the property appraisers budget based on the avalor tax as you levied in the prior year by by percentage and so the only other entities that fund the property appraiser would be the uh St John's River Water Management District Florida Inland navigation district and our independent districts within this County the hospital districts the the cities and the school board like I said we pay that that part that commission for them by Statute uh and then the tax collector is also a commission based their based uh percentage off of current taxes levied um and then in the same case the cities and the school board do not pay any commission there so you got the same entities that pay the commissions for the tax collector as well but does does anybody know if there's ever been an effort to do that which would would essentially change not to my knowledge it would have to change the state yeah yeah St okay I mean we try to show it and and we can show things as a as a percentage of the whole in other words we know what their budget basically when you do the calculation you can see what their budget is uh you know and you can take that as a percentage of the whole which would give you not necessarily the millage but it gives you a comparison to see where uh you relative size of each of these operations I I get it George I just think it's a flawed uh system because the general public just feels that we set the rate but yet now with this Constitutional Amendment that happened with all Constitution officers you know they they they have they essentially create their own budgets because if we don't approve it like you were saying chair they just go to the state and they override it and we have to most 99% of the times we have to do it um so um the legislature I'll just say should just say you know what the Constitutional officers you're duly elected and you're held responsible to your own budgets and it should be transparent but that's maybe a legislative priority that County um Association could push but all in the in the interest of transparency thank you Mr chair what that leads to one other question I'm sorry but if I understood you correctly the property appraisers receives a commission based on the property values of the preceding year so not the property values the taxes levied by each entity so the county Le levies 10 different tax levies each city is a levy the school board has three and then the independent districts account for three plus Florida Inland navigation in St John so there's five independent districts all right it sounded like there was a conflict because if he he tells us every year how much the property values one up and if he's getting commissions from that it's a little bit of a conflict no no it's just a percentage based percentage of the avalor taxes levied in the prior year okay sorry Larry where is he don't see go ahead thank you so if there's nothing else you can go to public participation if you'd like chissa did you receive anymore then we'll start with Pamela Walker did she leave uh John Nicholson little problem with Danny Devo behind me um you can lower that stand uh we just did that okay uh at least this is the first time in years I don't have to go on about rollback rate and the problems of rollback rate um secondly uh I do have a problem of not doing the point of o5 millage for infrastructure I know we're kicking it down the can down the road but at some point the can's got to stop we have to do infrastructure uh I know there's talk about maybe sort of kind of possibly perhaps maybe doing it next year but um it's been five six years since we lost the half peny sales tax um and I do want to bring it up I do want to be in a pain in a rear end uh with regard to the need need for infrastructure uh I mentioned earlier in the day the need for um uh drainage and um flooding we need we absolutely need to get a hold of the uh infrastructure the roads the bridges uh things of that nature that half peny sales tax would have put us at almost $300 million at this point uh I'm sure George would have fixed several roads for that kind of money so if we had passed it we would have been sitting pretty good so I'm asking you to think about funding uh or talking or bringing forward the half penny sales tax uh I would prefer a penny sales tax to match our competitors the other counties are at eight so if we go to 7.5 we'll still be below or competing uh competing counties and lastly um I like to be 's uh explanation on the sheriff and his grasp of our budget uh but I would not be able to explain to my neighbors and people who ask me could you explain that and I can't okay so if the chief wants to build this building or this facility or whatever uh your hands are tied okay basically if you say no we can't afford that $400 million facility or whatever it's not in our budget he just says oh well I'll go to the governor and get it passed and then we have to eat it and guess who gets voted out of office he doesn't and there's no relying on Mike Chitwood being in office forever so it goes with the office not the person so when he leaves that uh problem will remain forever so if you could kind of explain that to the public more because if I don't understand it I absolutely know the public doesn't thank you thank you and that completes uh public participation unless you've received more you have not and takes us to uh Council discussion yeah I'm sorry Mr um good yes I um you know I I still would have stood behind the additional monies that we had proposed when we put the original notice out there um and I think we had talked about investing that in um infrastructure projects and and I know the conversation was it's it's a drop in the bucket but it's it's a step in the right move so I guess I'm okay with this budget but I think we have to stop kicking can down the road um with some of these things and if you recall about few months ago we were dealing with things that were kicked prior years and we were up some many of us were upset that prior councils had kicked the can on other topics when they had not uh invested monies in areas that we should have um so I'll just Express that if that were in there I'd be okay with it because we noticed it and uh we have a lot of road projects we have a lot of infrastructure projects that we have to fund thank you Mr chair you're welcome councilman Joe Hansson thank you sir um I concur with what Mr Santiago said and I think it's a coming upon all of us here um uh and and I I alluded to it earlier today that that as soon as the elections are over soon as we figure out who's who in the zoo and come January 1st that that we need to put our nose to the grindstone one of the things I'm going to talk about at our organizational meeting is workshops workshops workshops we like debating we like having casual conversation this budget is important we're we're talking about bonding things already um I'm not opposed to discussing every option out there every option even the ones I don't I'm not too uh fond of because we we have to solve the problems we have to work on our core responsibilities and I'm not saying that the sky is falling but I don't want it to fall on my watch and I want to set the next Council up long after I go for Success not to be yet a couple billion dollars behind yet again more than we are now so um we got a lot to do uh next year's not election year there won't be so many charged discussions let's just do it and do the tough thing and be leaders and and make the commitment to make our County safe prosperous and and free of whatever problem we think flooding being one of them so uh roads being another uh traffic a little bit harder because there's about 80 people who's got their paws in that that process um um but it's an opportunity so I I concur Mr Santiago thank you sir councilman Robbins yeah David I'll EO this the same I know I brought it up but to honor my word to my constituents we found some options to get us up off the ground George and the team did a great job of that um and we've also made a commitment to start Jan uary 1st and uh sit down look at this and I want to use that that millage increase I use it as a little bit of his leverage to get um that unassigned money but also too we planted the seed for something that I think is is is good that's going to get us to towards close towards that finish line so at at the end of the day I'd be remissed if I didn't give the team and this board a chance if I didn't retract uh and hold up my end of the bargain and to take that that militate off the table because we found it and I'd like to give us a uh an option to sit down and talk and at the workshop to see what the best Avenue of approaches before we do that military and I'm not I'm not opposed to it because we we we do need it um so um I think we just uh see where it goes you know here uh first I think we had agreed come back with January County Manager sometime in January for it okay yes 's David Santiago for a question for you Danny s you have the floor um if I understand what you're saying but at that point we won't have the that that millage and we don't set millage in January you know what I mean so basically we're just saying kicking it a year basically but the way I understood it Davis it gives us that planning and Aaron when when we were talking if can you explain that uh that that process to and sort of what plan was where we can figure this uh millage into the budget for this coming year for that so you guys uh voted to direct 3.8 million uh in arpa uh money to the roads uh instead of the millage this year and then you guys will have the workshop in January uh you'll look at where the road program is at what your priorities are uh what the funding needs would be for that road program and then we can determine the best way uh how to move forward funding it and we can work that into our budget request our recommend the county manager's recommended budget next year um your values typically grow each year there have been years in the past where they have fallen um so there could be some value change that could help us uh in achieving that road millage um or we can uh you know find other ways to where we present the the millage rate to you guys it'll include the road funding or at least a portion of it but that 3.3 million May chair is a followup continu yeah where the 3.8 million you're sitting where's that coming from that was arpa reserves that's what we did two weeks ago right correct I get it I get it I just know we have a lot more that we have to done that's that's a Mist in the bucket not the drop no absolutely but um I'll get it jny Dan I'm not beating up on you I just wish you know we uh we just take the bull by horns you know what I mean I'm I'm ready to grab that thing and I've never been to a rodeo thank you Mr chair you done okay um I'll just add this to to that the my concern is that if we add to the military to pay for roads if it's part of the general fund we will never see a roll back again that the need is tremendous for infrastructure um so I'm looking forward to the workshop that we're going to have with looking at at uh how we can Finance it um and like Jake said to talk about things that I don't necessarily like that I'm not going to vote for for a a sales tax increase um but we need to look at it all and so that that I'm just putting it on the table that's my concern with that increase is that it uh it just grows and grows um forever uh I'll let you did you I make motion respond to that okay let me just finish with this I wanted to tell uh staff and councel year ago when we started discussing this um I had asked for a percentage increase and George said that rather than do a percentage why don't we bring you back a budget um that's goes to roll back which was ultimately the goal appreciate the hard work that was done to do that we came just shy of it because of SunRail we don't we still don't know exactly how much SunRail is going to cost us we have a a better idea and it's probably not as bad as what we had feared five years ago but we still don't know and it could be worse than than what we expect depending on what the uh Central Florida commun rail commission does um and and our response to it so um it was uh SunRail still looms out there as a u as a big uh a big hurdle um so uh commissioner councilman Santiago you want to to make a um yeah let's let's let's do it um I just want to do you need me to read all the unnumbered I'll read them in the record there you go uh so I'll read the rates into the record um and then you guys can vote on the rates and then I have to read the budget into record and you can vote on that you ready to proceed with that yes sir okay all right the fiscal year 2425 operating millit rate for the countywide taxing Authority vucha County general fund is 3.27 MS which is greater than the rolled back rate of 31437 Ms by 1.8% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority Valia County Law Enforcement fund is 1. 15994 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 13452 Ms by 18.9% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority volution County Library fund is the roll back rate of 0.389 Ms the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority valua forever fund is 0.200 Mills which is greater than the roll back rate of 0.185 Ms by 88.1% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the countywide taxing Authority valua Echo fund is 0.20 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 01850 Ms by 88.1% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority mosquito control fund is the roll back rate of 0.647 Ms the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Pon Inlet and Port Authority fund is 0.692 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 0.064 MS by 8.1% the fiscal year 2425 millage rate for the taxing Authority Municipal Service District fund is 1. 6956 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 1.56 46 Ms by 8.4% the fiscal year 2425 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority Silver Sands bethon Beach Municipal Service District fund is the roll back rate of 0.0106 Ms the fiscal year 2425 5 operating millage rate for the taxing Authority fire rescue District fund is 3.84 one2 Ms which is greater than the roll back rate of 3.54 59 Ms by 88.3% did you have a motion motion to accept second have a motion to accept the millage rates as just read uh by councilman Santiago and the second was by Matt Reinhardt um any other discussion questions all in favor say I I any opposed and millage rates are set um six to zero all right so the fisal year 2425 operating budget is the amount of 1 b322 million $13,570 7,428 775 motion to accept the budget Second Joe Hanson have a motion to accept the budget by councilman Santiago the second one second was by councilman Johanson and for comment thank you Mr chair just brief comment George I know you got your your team out here your leadership team thank you for the work you do with the the money we give you you guys all do a great job so just want to say thank you since you're all here at the same time thank you George be before we vote on it um I want to put it a little bit in perspective that I printed out something that you and Ryan had sent us in 2015 the millage rate was 6.31 we just voted on 3.2 we've cut it in half basically um in 20120 it was 5.6 5.59 so um we're heading in the right direction we couldn't do it this is a catch 22 if uh if there wasn't new houses being built and new taxes being levied and property values going up because so many people want to to live here so um it it um it's a catch 22 but it's those are significant numbers that in 2015 to have 6.31 and today 3.2 so um with that said we have a motion and a second on the floor to accept approve the budget all in favor say I I any opposed and the budget is approved six to zero so the last thing I need you guys to do is just confirm the second public budget hearing that we will advertise in the news journal uh we are proposing the date of Tuesday September 17th um it says 6: pm on the slide it is a night meeting already um just for full disclosure you can do :01 p.m. or later you just can't do any earlier than that so if you wanted to set it at 50501 you could or you can keep it at the six o'clock I'll be here yeah we're going to be here from 4 on so we can just stop at 6 o'clock and do the the budget what the um David can help me manage the uh agenda well happy to Mr chair keep it going I help motion to have the hearing held Tuesday September 17th 2024 at 6:m or later second okay we have a motion to keep it uh at 6: pm um at the next uh council meeting any discussion on that all in favor say I I any opposed and the meeting is set and we are adjourned at 6:36 Party Time Oh I thought you said a whole line I said you can't make a a motion now I e for --------- ##VIDEO ID:rfDs5U0-d-g## [Music] oh [Music] [Music] n [Music] oh [Music] [Music] he [Music] he [Music] heyyyy [Music] welcome to the Valia County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] sh [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] hey [Music] [Music] he [Music] a [Music] w [Music] w [Music] where [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes a [Music] d [Music] you [Music] I [Music] [Music] you [Music] okay [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] what [Music] okay if everybody would find the seat we'll get started in just 1 minute [Music] welcome you all here glad to see you here just to let you know how we will start as always in just a minute I'll ask you to uh stand uh for the invocation um and then for the Pledge of Allegiance if you are part of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocation um you are welcome to do so just send an email to k the letter K green vola.ro this is Carissa over here and she will get you all um set up to do that this morning uh we have Pastor uh Brad gartney of Stetson Baptist Church who will uh lead us in the invocation so if you would care to stand for that please rise well Council and Community it's good to be here today and an honor to get a chance to pray for you and with you as we see God's work done in our great Community let's pray together father God I thank you so much that you're the great provider and today Lord we have a full day of meetings so we pray for wisdom as as decisions are made and our as topics are discussed God we pray for patience as we do our best to try to make the best of this community God we know that you want to do great things through each of us individually and so God I pray during this time and during this season this would be a moment for us to reflect on where we are with our relationship with you and God I pray that you draw us into an ever closer relationship with you god thank you so much that you're forward to land in your for valua County and I pray that as we do our best to honor you with our time and our efforts and our energy that you get all the glory for that father God we love you we thank you in your name we pray amen amen I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all thank you sir thank you ma'am I can move thank you as always okay Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Robbins here Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey here Mr Johansson Mr Kent Mr Reinhardt here Mr Brower we do have a quorum we are uh short one person Troy Kent who is probably on his way does anybody know he won't be here okay all right we do have a quorum though we have uh um some public participation which is how we always start our meetings um I will call your name and you can just come up to the podium podium can go up or down because we would like to have the microphone right in front of you so that everybody can hear you and so that it's properly recorded um you'll have three minutes to talk about uh subjects that affect the county and um there is a a uh a clock a timer on the uh monitor in front of you and overhead on the screen so please try and stick to the 3 minutes because we have quite a few few and growing list of people who want to talk first we have uh Frank gingras and when you come down please just tell us uh where you're from in the county you don't have to give your full address for safety reasons but if you would tell us what part of the county you're from your representative would like to know that good morning good morning uh Frank jingis valuch County resident since 1975 my first time in front of the Council I made a mistake selling a vacant lot I own to honon Landing Marina I thought it would be okay with the 35- foot setback required next to my residence the owner later asked me for a five foot uh setback instead when I refused the harassment has not stopped I tried to ignore this it only got worse I tried to contact him he didn't care to speak to me in March I did have to file complaints with the county the violations are still there since March these include working on boats against our side of home by our bedroom right up against the house parking under historic tree canopies there's two beautiful historic trees environmentally told them they can't but they continue in defiance and I love the nature I live out at the uh St uh St John's river uh and it's sad to see of course on the weekends uh is when he's there all the time during the week he knows the hours of the environmental people so the vehicles move uh employees are living on the house booat the employee harasses my wife myself with loud L Music shouting obscenities at us lining the property with empty beer bottles hanging vulgar signs shining bright lights on her bedroom I've been told the electric and septic tanks on this lot were never permitted I'm asking the county to enforce their own rules the 35- foot setbacks the fence between our property no employees living in the setback area for hun island or sorry honon Landing to comply with the codes these are the things that uh that I am asking and uh I they so far have not been done I'm frustrated it it's gone from a beautiful place to live to hell it it's just it's sad and uh with that I hope somebody can do something I don't know where to go after this if if you guys can and ladies thank you thank you Michael Dyer your name name is on the is that a mistake or did you need to make an opening announcement no it a mistake thank you thank you uh zultan hello everyone my name is Zan carus and um I lived in vua County for the past 40 years years I had the great pleasure and joy to own and manage Theona shirt shop located on 825 East International Speedway Boulevard which is uh the 92 Beach ramp today I am here to discuss a matter that is deeply affecting our business and by extension our community as you all know the 92 Beach ramp currently is under uh where our store is located is currently under Remodeling and renovation I want to highlight the impact of the ongoing Construction in front of our store unlike previous construction projects in our city and Community where streets remained partially accessible during construction this current project has almost completely blocked off our access to our store because the fence surrounding the construction site our store is now almost isolated from the main road there is about 200 ft 6t sidewalk from A1A to our store and also I'd like to state that the beach uh is completely closed so there is no beach access uh to our stores anymore this has caused a significant drop uh in foood traffic and visibility resulting in 80% to 100% decline to our business the financial straight is considerable we are facing expenses rent wages Insurance utility Etc of roughly about $400 a day with these losses it's becoming increasingly difficult to survive and um the approximate 8 months of construction period given by the county given the challenges I'm here to request some some form of compensation in form of some government or state funds for the losses we incurred we believe that with the help and support of the county of UIA we can make it during this difficult time and ensure that we are able to continue serving our community once the construction is completed um we have discussed this matter with Mr Brower thank you very much thank you uh Sam TS okay thank you thank you all I own Sam's Cole fire pizza at 87 East International right next to uh zi and um before signing my lease about a year and a half ago I spoke with the uh director of coastal and I was assured that at that time they will only close half the road leaving the other half open so we'll be able to get some business in June 10th begins our high season June 10th they decide to close down the entire Street completely they shut down the access to the beach they cut both they they Clos both lanes um now everything that we carry is basically per uh perishable I tried to stay open every day I'm throwing out about $5 $600 worth of food the dough Rises you got to throw it out if you don't use it h it just became such a such a problem employees weren't making tip money uh we decided to close with that we still have to pay our rent all our obligations we got to we have to keep the utilities on we have to pay our insurance every single month now um initially like I said I was told that they will keep half the road open work on that half and once it's complete to they're going to work on the second half they have not done that uh it's just been a complete disaster it looks like a war zone out there and um three months now this week is three months and hardly any work has been done um they just uh last two weeks it's just been uh two three people there working so uh they don't have the um uh the seaw wall uh they ordered it late everything was ordered late and uh this project they're looking now another year for it to be completed instead of the 8 to nine months so um I am asking if there's any kind of funding that the county can provide to at least help us cover our utilities our rent just to get us buy through this because uh last thing we want to do is just hand over over the keys to the landlord and then have him come after us for the remainder of the lease it's just been it's it's a nightmare it's just complete Nightmare and um I also saw so much potential in that area that I took the 831 East International locations to bring in a Nathan's franchise in there um and that now I'm obligated under that least but everything else is at halt so I appreciate you taking this time and uh please think of us you know during this time thank you thank you thank you both for coming in uh Paul [Music] Richardson morning Council my name is Paul Richardson of thean I'm glad that you're taking the 3.9 million from the American Rescue plan act to put towards safety and pedestrian safety projects it's good time to do this thankfully we have the funds from the American Rescue plan act to you so we don't have to increase the millage however I I hope that you're not uh not increasing the millage for political reasons local governments in Florida not only have to have a balanced budget but also keep a reserve fund being a fisal conservative is a different thing here than on the federal level you can't guarantee that you won't increase taxes and the American rest rescue plan act funds will not be around forever now it seems that we recently needed a mile millage rate of 32862 at one point up 0.855 from the current 3.200 sub millage luckily we can Mi that plan in these tough times blue County Citizens need any assistance we can get at no point am I saying we have to raise the millage but what about tomorrow once those American rescue plan funds acts are used a future of Lua County Council is going to have to raise the millage all I ask is that you make sure that you're making the right decisions for today and the future God bless Russa County God Bless America and her ATT return Ally Israel thank you thank you nette mckel patrell okay County Council and County management good morning my name is Nanette mckel Petrella I'm a resident of Daytona Beach here speaking today as president of Daytona dog beach Inc this morning after completing 10 months of the dog friendly Beach pilot I bring you a positive message since the launch of the pilot we've seen responsible pet owners and happy dogs enjoying the beach the community has come together to create a safe environmentally sound courteous environment for residents and visitors alike many positive benefits have been recognized and let me share just a few first through July our paw Ambassador volunteers removed 2500 pounds of trash from the dog friendly Beach adding that to the amount from our beach cleanups dating back to July of 20121 our organization has removed 3,800 lbs of trash from volution beaches second latitude Margaritaville introduced a brand wide Day of Service in support of singing for a change a nonprofit created by Jimmy Buffett singing for change supports inclusive Grassroots organizations that Inspire personal growth Community integration and enhances awareness that collectively people can bring about positive change for the inaugural Jimmy Buffett day latitude mark Margaritaville chose Daytona dog beach Inc as their partner organization with a special event permit we hosted a people and Pa Beach cleanup from the Main Street Pier to Silver Beach on Jimmy Buffett day this past Friday 180 Margaritaville residents participated removed 230 PBS of trash from that on Mile Stretch of beach I did provide Karissa with copies of our August news newsletter you'll get them at the end of the meeting which outlines more positive benefits that we've achieved and some that are underway I want to express appreciation for the collaboration responsiveness and assistance our nonprofit has received working with County divisions special thanks to Tamara malford and Len Lewis from Beach safety Jessica Fentress and Terry props from Coastal and Angela MMA from Animal Services their engagement with our organization promotes partnership and helps us achieve common objectives that lead to positive outcomes within our community and Mark Swanson congratulations on a remarkable career filled with dedication and a pursuit of Excellence that has inspired many Mark I wish you all the joy relaxation and excitement that retirement brings may you cherish your time with your loved ones follow your passions and Savor the freedom it offers thank you to all and I'm always available if anybody wants to learn more about what we're up to thank you thank you would you share the name of your uh newsletter it's called Sandy it's called Sandy tals we uh started it in 2021 so thank you I just thought everybody would enjoy that uh uh Barbara from orang City there she is good morning my name is Barbara sainsbury I've been a resident of vucha County for six years in in as I said Orange City I'm here this morning to speak about the amendment four which will be on the November ballot and which will if it gets passed be enshrined in the Florida Constitution and I'm sure many of us are aware that it would be almost impossible to remove that the problem with this amendment is the fact that the wording is uh very vague it doesn't Define any of the terms that are most important such as healthc care provider uh which means that medical doctor would no longer uh be required that it could be any whatever you consider a health care provider it might be a chiropractor might be a dentist it could be anyone it could be an abortion uh staff member and an abortion clinic there are other problems with this amendment it would remove many of the health and safety regulations that would actually support women so this amendment again is not really helping women it also removes the parental consent for minors which would be the only surgery that a child would be able to have without a parent consent the language is very uh vague and deceptive I'm not sure why anyone would write an amendment this way it would seem that you'd want voters to understand what an amendment is about but it definitely endangers uh the lives of women because it doesn't consider so many so many things that are important including uh the fact that uh how a woman is after an abortion as far as grieving Etc uh I am representing uh Little Lives matter which is a pro-life group and all pro-life people that feel that babies have the right as well as women to have the health and safety regulations in place and not have them removed uh that that's my main reason for presenting this today and I appreciate your time thank you thank you very much Elizabeth pompy good morning um my name's Elizabeth pompy and I live on Halifax Drive in t Farms Village you guys have all learned about here recently um anyway I'm going to read from this because it's a couple combined uh um from a couple other of my neighbors so um I'm here today in support of the vucha forever acquisition proposal of the McDonald cattle ranch off Tomoka Farms Road which I believe comes before you on the 13th um so we uh um my n some of my neighbors have forwarded letter letters to the council in support of the acquisition since there will they were unable to come today they have asked me to read portions of their letters to you um Chelsea who lives on Halifax drives mentions in her letter how the acquisition will keep the mission and goal of valua forever program to protect the County's natural biodiversity and resources and preserving this piece of land we can prevent displacement of wildlife avoid water cycle disruption and decrease soil erosion if developed it would cause more flooding and additional contamination into the spr Spruce Creek Basin Mike who lives on tamoka Farms Road remembers when this working cattle ranch that abuts the long leaf Plantation property from his younger days grow growing up hiking hunting and camping on this property owned by the McDonald's whom he knows very well uh he States Miller's Creek runs through the property and is still pristine uh cattle calves deer black bear hogs and Elusive Florida panther can be seen on this beautiful property that Mike States is one of God's great gifts to the community and he States what a what a gift for the future generations of ALU County residents than to preserve this property and others like it to sustain our heritage as a rule farming and open space Community the current land use regulations of the tamoka Farms Village were set in place to do that as many in Valia we are we already have uncontrolled flood flooding in this area that needs to be addressed preserving this area will keep from adding to this issue any further please when this acquisition comes before you consider moving it to a high priority thank you for listening thank you uh John Nicholson John nson dayona beach side uh first of all an item three uh the retirement of Mark swansson I would ask you to deny that um just just for a couple of years like 10 or 15 years when we can find a replacement that's comparable so uh other than that that um maybe you might think about keeping him uh secondly uh with regard to the beach approach I have to admit it is the worst uh bungled Road and we in Daytona Beach we've had some horrible ones A1A several times Main Street Etc um the traffic light for those exiting the beach or from that area is still on the road's been closed for several months and yet you have to sit there and twiddle your thumbs while no traffic is moving for no reason also lanes are closed that can be open to turn because you're stuck there with two lanes one of which if you want to turn at those lights at Grand View or Halifax or whatever there is space to put a turning lane they just block it off for no for apparently no reason they're not doing any work on the area they just closed the lane because that's what they wanted to do it is causing problems not only for the residents our tourists and now you're finding out our business people it is a terrible and I would ask you to look into it uh third um I was asked well actually Jeff brought it up at the last meeting on my voting I get asked all the time who I'm pushing for in Sunday's paper there were several people who were backing his opponent um and I'm asked all the time I ask from somebody from the chamber who are you looking for in your city and in the county County it's unfortunate we don't have a radio station any longer that will be able to be discussing who's good who's bad and what their views are we no longer have a newspaper that's published seven days a week that will discuss who's good who's bad and whatever um Jeff assumes because I voted against him last time I'm going to vote against him this time that's not the case all right uh yes I've been harping on him to grow up and a leader for four years it doesn't mean that he hasn't moved at all all right there's been tremendous movement on this Council uh the previous first two years he was bounced on by only six of the seven members attacked him now he only has two so he's gained a bit of your uh appreciation because he's he himself has changed so I'm asking that uh at some point you all let the public know how you feel because they're not getting it from anywhere else uh I but actuallyy back uh Jeff sort of uh absolutely Mark uh I mean Matt uh excuse me talk to you after thank God that's over Don did you write that he needs he needs to have the disclosure on there is yeah okay um where are we U before I ask for a a motion on item one which is the approval of the agenda uh Mark Watts could would you come up the reason I'm doing this is this will affect the agenda I know that we may have some people here waiting for an item I know there's people online that are waiting to hear uh items five and six and um I believe you have some news on it do uh thank you Mr chairman uh members of the council for the record Mark Watts with the law firm of cob Cole 231 North Woodland Boulevard D land um we had been monitoring just some of the conversation that was happening on some social media platforms over the past couple weeks this item was at pdrc and and did not have any um objection or concern at that we' heard some in the um neighborhood surrounding neighborhoods and so we'd like to ask for a 90-day continuance so that we can schedule a neighborhood meeting give us an opportunity to listen to what the concerns are U Mr chairman I think you you know from our record we'd like to try and come up with compromise where we can if there's things that we can do to revise the application to address some of the concerns we would like to have that opportunity and sit down with some of the neighboring Property Owners so um I'm asking for 90 days because I'm going to be out of town for the next about 10 days it'll give me time to then schedule a meeting uh get notices sent out to the surrounding neighborhoods have that meeting and then follow up with staff with any potential revisions uh the result from those conversations so thank other than so you're going to table it for a Time certain in 90 days and that would bring it to your first meeting in December uh David Santiago don't go away yet procedurally speaking we're going to table it maybe just I'm requesting that's not I'm here requesting correct um I just wanted to say you know uh I'm open to the extension I the I have to make this public announcement and and to you it concerns me um that social media is driving your your narrative I hope that's not the case you hope you're working with our staff certainly we want to address um the neighboring residents concerns I don't want to diminish that but social media has just become such a poison well lately these keyo Warriors and it's normally I'll finish in a second normally there's a small handful of people that try to dictate the the future of half a million people or more in this County so I just warning yeah i' certainly appreciate that and and I don't think we you know look at it and and have that drive are you know what we're asking to do but when we see an opportunity to maybe correct some misunderstandings or provide additional detail and education about how the process is set up to work with regard to storm water design and traffic and things of that nature I just want to take that opportunity uh if you'll provide it um so that we can try and and answer some of those questions before we're trying to do it you know from in front of the Das so Matt rinard thank you chair um and Mr Santiago I certainly understand what you're saying with respect to some some people on social media that may try to dictate that but that is their one Outlet to be able to to voice that and and we've received several at least I have several emails with respect for that we've talked about that therefore I'd like to make a motion uh to agree with the continuance uh for 90 days or or as stated M Mr Reinhardt if you wish to make that motion 90 days would take us a date December 3rd meeting at 9:30 or later 9:30 or later December what third December 3rd and you are your motion includes approving the rest of the agenda as yes thank you yes thank you okay uh so we have a a motion on the floor uh by councilman Reinhardt to approve the agenda with item five and six uh tabled uh till a Time certain which is December 3rd is there a 2 second or I'll second thank you uh motion seconded by councilman Dempsey any other discussion okay uh we have quite a few requests to speak on five and six would you still like to to speak on those everybody's Mr chair we get copies of those we can make sure that we include those folks in in our invitations to the neighborhood meeting can you get copies of these to Mr Watts thank you all right uh any other questions all in favor of the U motion to approve the agenda with this uh exception say I I any opposed thanks for your time this morning thank you motion carries 6 to zero and that brings us to the consent agenda we do have two members of the public who would like to speak to the consent agenda does any council member have an item they would like to pull for either a comment or a vote comment on K and question sorry but not a vote not a vote okay councilman Santiago will have a comment on k um anyone else Mr Brower you do have two public participations wishing to speak um one would only like to speak if the item was pulled and I believe that was item K but I could be wrong say that again one would only like to speak what if the item is pulled it you're not pulling the item my understanding okay uh so we have uh Stephanie and and Amy Amy would you like to speak still come up and do that before we vote and then uh Stephanie and joose of Sullivan you're welcome to speak as well Amy mun is the Delon Springs Community Association I realize this is on the consent agenda but we just want to take time to thank the valua forever advisory committee for including the Caraway Lake parcel um in their uh a group and we certainly hope that you will uh ratify that it's an important piece of property especially for Jon Springs with our Watershed U the wildlife Corridor and uh it does have the possibility of being developed with 44 home sites at this point so it's important to us that that doesn't happen and it stays on valua forever's a list thank you thank you uh Stephanie Joseph morning everyone morning morning ladies first good morning good morning no no that was brief good morning everyone we are just here from Boys and Girls Club Evolution Flagler counties first I just want to say thank you to this Council uh we have a team Center project that is underway in Delan and we just want to say thank you thank you thank you for all your support and I'll let you speak and um my name is Joe I've been here since 1992 yes we always uh compare our bald heads uh but just here to say thank you um again our um Club has been in in Spring Hill for 25 years I think we've made a lot of difference in that Community we still have a lot to do but back in 99 we cleaned up the little building that was built in 1930 that's the one we're going to tear down and rebuild the county put a park across the street for us we built a pavilion there in 2004 the cdbg partnership we raised 432,000 you guys have matched that so it's going to pay dividends for years to come so our club there is going to be named after althia the beautiful she's been our club director there for 25 years but without Valia County support myself and this organization wouldn't be here we're your lead Agency for all the after school programs and we're different we're there for kids every day they can all afford to belong and this is all we do so uh again just here to say thank you and and and um your staff have been wonderful because there are a lot of intricacies when you have to build a building and use federal money that we knew nothing about so they've held our hand I know people complain about staff all the time so I'm here to say thank you to them and thank you to you guys for for making a big difference um again any questions for me or the club uh this is uh uh this is going to be very exciting time for us I also want to say that once upon a time Congressman Micah got us money to build the new Learning Center there too so we've had a lot of good public private Partnerships but our one with you and I can say you guys is one of the best thank you thank you thank you thank you do I have a a motion to approve motion to approve by councilman Reinhardt second by councilman Robins all in favor say I I I any opposed motion carries 6 to zero and we will uh uh councilman Santiago if he would like to discuss item K thank you Mr chairman um and Brad there more question education for make we're all aware and the public I think the last couple times we've been talking about valua forever um one of my colleagues last time I asked about um how much land in valua county is currently preserved in some type of conservation status can you give us an update on that 695,000 acres and what does that equate to relative to the O the acreage in val County 35% 36% 50% is the goal one to one I'll stand by what I said last time I did some follow what's the goal one to one 50% yes okay and we're currently at 36% of uchia county is preserved in some type of environmental category yes sir I will say as any good academic you know that number will it can change um you know based on um the type of land that you're conserving But A good rule of thumb is one to one Goa and then if you could this just popped into my head and through through uh George if if I don't want to give you Direction um if we can get some type of analysis on how a chart analysis that could show us how much we've been preserving over the years you know at yearby year of so many acreage has gone up and that and a chart so I can see over that duration of time um how we're performing in acquisition sure we have okay thank you that's all I got Mr chair thank you Brad and uh George are we we're tbling item three now I I have a quick as well okay I'm sorry I didn't say your name yeah um so sir the vice mayor isn't here uh unfortunately so George again you did a great job with the consent agenda and I appreciate it thank you sir his presence is still felt even when he's not here okay that takes us to uh item three um the proposed retirement of Mark [Music] Swanson it's proposed it's we haven't voted on it yet Mr chair uh it is definitely a Bittersweet uh moment I mean we're happy for Mark but uh we'll get into uh you have to retire sometime right Mark so Mark started uh uh his career back with the foundation Evac back in 1985 um I think he was about 12 years old maybe he was a scout or something he came over uh with a lot of great people uh when the Council made the decision to take uh Evac in house and make it Valia County EMS so he came over in October of 2011 as our clinical services manager and in that function he is very well known I uh when I got to learn a lot about the uh um organization I can see right away Mark was one of the uh key players as he was the person who kept up all of our clinical standards made sure that our folks uh were up to par kept track of all of our uh inventory of drugs and uh Controlled Substances so a very uh important position and then in 2013 uh he came to us and said hey he'd like to uh compete for and he did for the uh Beach Services director and was promoted at that time in 2013 and he served in that function for three and a half years he was then promoted again in 2016 to the deputy public protection director where he took on the operational responsibility of many of the units in public protection at that time public protection uh had nearly a thousand people uh and we decided uh with the council's support we um split that into two functions and uh in 2021 Mark was confirmed as the Director of public protection so he's had a very distinguished career here in addition to the career with those positions he had another back position that he did very well and he was the leader of our cism critical incident stress management team and Mark was responsible uh and his team to help people when they've gone through maybe some of the worst moments of their life um a lot of uh PTSD type events um maybe also personal tragedy uh Mark was always right there with him and his team to help those people and I think that's uh credit to the person he is and and and he's always been a big believer uh in that for everybody he's been the conate professional he knows uh he's very very knowledgeable in all things public protection uh he's going to go and uh spend more time well he's got a little side gig he's going to do before he totally retires but he has has been married to his uh wife jod for 45 years he has a daughter Caitlyn um one of Mark's sayings uh there's no greater calling than one of a true public servant so he Contin he's going to continue doing that he says even in retirement Mark you'll be sorely missed thank you for uh 40 Years of great public service and is a great public servant we have uh two members of the council that would like to speak but why don't you go first so I have something here that I'd like to read so I don't forget anybody so um County council members and staff first of all thank you for all your support throughout my career County Council has always been there for me uh supporting me and I truly appreciate that um I will say that today is a sad is a great moment but also a very sad moment as I and my 40 40-year career with valuch County my career has been Prov has provided me with many opportunities to grow into the person that I am today my career as a public servant has been purposeful as I've utilized all the tools I've obtained throughout my career to provide the best service possible to the citizens and visit of f County there is no greater calling than one of a true public servant very a very important part of my career was a secret and the secret to my success has been my enormous emotional physical support that I have continuously received from my wife and family it is with that support that I was able to fide for the needs of others A A very wise person told me early in my career to always be truthful to the person that looks back at you in the mirror stand up for others when they when when you should do the right thing even if it makes your peers feel uncomfortable remember there is no right way to do the right there is no right way to do the wrong thing when it comes to your work always bring your aame make a difference every day I wish to thank some key people first and foremost George rectenwald County manager who I consider a great fan friend and who's always believed in me and supported me in the directions I chose to keep public protection moving in the positive direction Deputy County Manager Suzanne conin who has been tremendous Mentor has remained open-minded and has given me a great advice as I have served as a public protection director the guidance and Leadership from both George and Suzanne was instrumental in my success as a public protection director lastly I wish to thank my staff I could not have ever imagined that I would be blessed with such an amazing support I continue to be successful because of the unconditional support I received from them operations manager random matusak senior staff assistant Michelle mallister and management specialist Denise kazinski their unwavering commitment has been and will continue to be remembered appreciated as I Venture on into my career I wish the best for vucha County and I will Contin continue to pray for each of you and your families thank you thank you uh Jake Johansson thank you sir um Mark I am uh um ecstatic that you're moving on because uh I I know you got uh I I know you have some views on what you want to do in the future and um you know public service is something that that I treasure it's all I know as well um and and I very much appreciate every ounce of every day that you've given to to the public and uh uh I I hope You' do it in some other form um I I would uh I would hope you'd make more more than a few more dollars doing it but uh I understand that usually our Our Calling doesn't come with bigone um uh but but do yourself a favor uh sleep in for a day or two read a book spend time with family and friends uh and then maybe hit the ground running next Monday all right uh uh thanks for everything you did for us I appreciate it councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um mark thank you for your service thank you for being a mentor a teacher and a friend uh you've helped me out quite a bit and taught me quite a bit uh during my tenure and it's valued and it will be it will be missed and keep your phone on like you said because we'll still be reaching out to you uh a couple little things um I'm a little jealous because I think more correction showed up for you today than they did for me when I retired so um but we want to thank you and um same thing I mean this is a testament right here uh with the people from Fire EMS and animal control and Corrections and you've done a phenomenal job and a phenomenal career and the fact that you're your next venture will still be you know nearby I'm very very grateful for that so thank you very much councilman Robbins thank you chair who's going to be in the lead for retirements the number Jim judge or you only retired once okay all right we're we're we're we're keeping track he's on his about 18th time but uh mark thank you for for for everything you know it's it's not every day you um you look at somebody that's been employed in in an air at an establishment for this long and for as long as I've been alive not to make you feel old or anything so um we appreciate you if I didn't inject some some humor in it um it just probably wouldn't be me but but we appreciate you the staff appreciate you the public appreciate you and uh we're just so thankful um for your service and your continuing to service in this community so thank you uh thank you again hopefully you get some time in to to relax a little bit and take a breath and re-evaluate and like Jake said hit the ground running here so appreciate you mark thank you so much councilman Santiago what's the effective date this Friday is my last day this Friday I thought there was a law you can't leave during Hurricane Season well that's for insurance policy so thank you for your service appreciate working with you thank you well since the word that we cannot mention was just mentioned um I think I'd be remiss to to not thank you for the community of oin I got to know you well during the two storms which uh whose names we are not allowed to mention by order of our Chief Financial Officer and all storms have been cancelled for this year Mr Jud you uh you remember what happened with extensive flooding everywhere and you became known as the uh the sandbag Champion I don't know how many sandbags were were prepared and placed around the county I know there was a lot of them just in oin itself so um you you learn a lot about about somebody in the face of adversity and um Around the Clock challenges so thank you for your hard work in those kinds of emergencies um and best of luck to you going forward you're not going far okay anybody and cake at 11: all right well we get together for Mark uh it'll be Friday afternoon if anyone wants to stop by over the historic Courthouse okay pictures okay okay before we take his picture should we we should we should approve this or not approve it um do I have a motion motion to approve motion to approve by councilman Reinhardt uh second uh yes you're going to in the Jake Hansen all in favor say I I any opposed any opposed motion carries 6 to [Applause] zero okay are we missing anybody oh good okay all right bottom row giant step that way Jim j he can't hear you he's already retired again no he's not this is good I see you ready one more gotcha about you got [Applause] it boy okay okay that brings us to item four the iupa beach safety collective bargaining agreement um is Dana there she comes good morning good morning morning uh deputy chief Jenkins L County Beach safety can uh somebody raise that for him yeah there you go there we go I learned a few things sitting in the back uh we're here today obviously for the uh ratification of the contract between the county and the uh iupa Waterman's Association uh I just have a few words here that uh I'm going to go ahead and and read off uh that director malfus had sent uh which I thought she did a a very uh good job with um I want to acknowledge the time effort and dedication that both sides have invested in these negotiations the commitment to reaching a fair and Equitable agreement is commendable this agreement brings much needed stability and security to our lifeguards which is crucial given the vital role they play in ensuring the safety of both local and visitors ongoing collaboration between the union and the county is essential and we appreciate the County's dedication to upholding the highest standards and safety of professionalism in the beach Safety Services uh I'd also be remiss in pointing out the support from the council I appreciate that and with that I'd like to hand it over to the union president Sergeant Ben weststein good morning everyone I'm Sergeant Ben wetstein L County Beach safety I'm the vucha Waterman's president for iopa local 6039 um this is my second contract I've worked on so far um this one took a little while was sometimes arduous but I would like to take this moment to thank Dana and Randa for their continuing professionalism throughout the whole deal it didn't go unnoticed and I'm thankful for that um this contract I'm glad to have it done um giv some stability like director malur said for our members um just on a personal note I've done this job for almost three decades now a long time ago I made a decision to make this a career and it's been nothing but fulfilling and rewarding for me and I'm hoping to pass along that to the next generation of life-saving individuals that come through I want hopefully generate that spark in them that gives them that career-minded like not just a job just to be here um I would like to thank the council for recognizing the need for a career lifeguard agency in this County it's an extremely important job and it's my pleasure all these years to have served the public in the capacity that I have when the transition happened it was an easy choice for me I'd weighed the difference between my impact on the public as a lifeguard EMT and as a law enforcement officer when I was doing all three the Lifeguard NP part way surpassed any impact I had like the thousands of families I saw the people that come up to me that recognize me hey you pulled me out of a rip current like maybe was 20 years ago but they still recognize it had an impact on them and their family members um this is the greatest job I've ever had and I'm optimistic about the future we've had a lot more kids sign up we're getting more Tower staff this year than last year it's a good sign and I could speak for the members stating that we're optimistic and we're looking forward to director Mal's Direction and our plans moving forward thank you thank you uh County Manager George rectom yes Mr chair uh first off I wanted to thank uh everybody for working together we had a very good negotiating team and uh the union team and they uh had to wrestle with some difficult issues change is difficult and change at the level that uh that division has had to go through uh can be crushing and instead they've uh taken the and gone in the positive direction I'm very happy to hear uh with the uh direction that they're taking and that we're getting more uh Tower guards um I think we're moving everything in a direction it needs to go and it it wouldn't I agree with Mr w Ste and the impact that they have on people on a daily basis there's not a day out there that they're not impacting people and uh and of course many cases saving their lives so um I'm very uh happy with this agreement I'm and I'm happy with the direction in which they're uh going and I want to thank them because it is definitely been a difficult term and and time for them but they're handling it uh very well and I think a big bright future is in store for them out there thank you thank you Dana anything you're good okay uh David Santiago move to approv the agreement have a motion to approve by councilman Santiago is there a second second by Matt Reinhardt and I I just want to say this kind of a take off on what you said um Matt Matt sits on the uh advertising board and we spend a lot of money attracting people to our beaches there are in the course of your service there not just from you but all of your colleagues there are thousands of breaths being taken today of that might not be there's hearts that are beating that might not be so it's not a surprise to me when people um remember to thank you for something 20 years ago go we pull more people out of rip currents and um dangerous situations um you do a great job um thank you uh please keep building you know Tower guards are hard to find um now and we're we're um doing about as best job as as can be expected um I know you don't leave any a pool undisturbed looking for potential lifeguards but um thank you both please take that back uh to the troops from this Council that we appreciate U Your Service uh we have a motion to approve the contract by uh councilman Santiago second uh by Matt Reinhardt um any other discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and motion carry 6 to zero thank you very much okay five and six that takes us to uh item seven um resolution 2024 [Music] um rezoning and planned unit development and Clay I will let you take it away good morning CLA director of growth and Resource Management before you today is a reversal of a PUD back to its original original zoning to RR this property was previously rezoned to PUD to allow for both a residential and a commercial Nursery to operate uh the original applicants did not follow through the current applicant purchased the property and seeks only to build a single family home so therefore the conditions established in the Pud would be eliminated and we go back to the standard zoning of RR which is rural residential which is consistent with the land use uh your staff sent this forward to the planning and Land Development regulation commission with a recommendation of approval at the pdrc meeting uh there um there was one who spoke in support of this and otherwise it's coming to you with unanimous recommendation of approval from the pdrc or planning and Land Development regulation commission excuse me any questions for staff we'll be glad to answer them councilman Santiago move to approve councilman santago makes a motion to approve is there a second second uh by Danny Robbins Mr chair before you uh you you vote if there's any expart uh Communications you know the now would be the time to disclose it none none we do have uh the applicant if you would like to speak Randall Marshall yes good morning my name is Randall Marshall I live in Orton City Florida sure I can add much more than the gentleman uh present to you already uh I did buy this property in know 2021 uh it was an abandoned Nursery uh I bought it from the owner who also owns the partiel to the north I'm surrounded on this by uh R4 zonings and RR diagonally to the Northwest and then the current owner of the 10 acres is still the mpud mpud is not anything that I need uh and I'm seeking RR Which is less dense than the R4 that surrounds me so I'm really asking for less than I possibly could have asked I'm familiar with that are I live about a quar mile from there myself i' like to see it keep as rural as it possibly can be so I'm requesting for a zoning for RR change thank you thank you we have a motion to approve that request uh any other discussion all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 6 to zero thank you sir item eight special exception for a communication Tower clay irvan good morning again clay director of growth and Resource Management the subject property is located on US 17 uh at 1255 North US 17 near the town of Pearson uh it is property owned by the CSX railroad uh there's you know a small sliver of land that is basically between the railroad and US 17 where the uh applicants are seeking to put a 255 ft High uh cell telephone Tower it's got capabilities for for multiple antenna be located on staff reviewed it for the criteria that are established in our code for Towers exceeding 70 feet it met all of those there were variances that were submitted uh in regards to uh setbacks that the planning and Land Development regulation commission approved subject to the County Council approving this special exception and the planning and Land Development regulation commission did recommend it for approval so it's coming to you for approval from both your staff and the plan Land Development regulation commission if there's any questions for us we'll be glad to answer them and the applicant is available here uh thank you uh councilman Santiago uh no expart from me but I move to approve councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve the second is by councilman Robbins is there anyone else that has any expart to declare none there being none uh the applicant patent Han is here if you would like to speak uh thank you councilman uh Paton Han 1901 6 Avenue North Birmingham Alabama I represent the applicant here today uh I don't have much to add um the staff report is you know indicates we met all the necessary requirements your ordinance the Planning Commission below recommended unanimously and this is to improve coverage along that Highway I'm happy to answer any questions you might have are there any questions NOP thank you very much for coming uh all in favor of the special exception say I I any oppos motion carries 6 to zero and that takes us to uh item nine with Clay Irvin once again uh clay Irvin director of growth and Resource Management this is an amendment to our regulations that the County Council directed staff to investigate uh uh this is coming in regards to the criteria applied by staff in evaluating applications for variances that go to the planning and Land Development regulation commission there are currently five criteria which applicants have to meet all five otherwise staff H is basically necessary to recommend denial uh the council looked to see if we could do something to address that so it's now down to three of the five in other words a majority of the criteria must be met also there's an ability to address the uh date of the survey before uh it was you know costly to the applicants with this change in regards to the survey requirements it provides them with a greater opportunity so again this is consistent with your all's goals that you provided to staff and we are bringing it Forward based on your direction if there's any questions we'll be glad to answer them oh and the planning Land Development regulation commission unanimously recommended approval okay councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman clay thank you for making it easier to work with valua County government I think that's a this council's goals and U it still has many checks and balances within it Mr chair I move to approve councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve and it was seconded by councilman Robbins uh any other discussion question all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 6 to zero moving right along item 10 fee schedule and Aaron good afternoon Council Aaron van cleek Deputy Finance director uh this item before you is for our updated fees for charges for services this is in response to our internal audit uh last year and also council's desire to have a more regulatory update to our fee schedule uh so we do have the fees listed out here uh in the presentation we do have some fees that have already been updated uh listed here for you the beach access fees mass transit fairs are actually one of the next items uh ambulance fees sewer water sales for the fees that we are bringing in front of you we have animal services I'm not going to read every fee you guys have already reviewed this fire Services mainly uh the only fees being adjusted here at the training center uh and it's for groups that come to use the training center so a lot of municipalities other counties and then grm for their lionia Environmental Center uh deals with a lot of their uh daily field trips and education programs and then Library Services the adjustment there is to nonresident library cards Parks and Recreation the only adjustment in the park and Recreation division is to their new Veterans Memorial Plaza Park to set the rental fees for that Plaza and then Public Works you have a CPI uh plus one up to an annual CPI plus one for the garbage and trash collection um index using the garbage and trash collection index and to be adjusted January all of the fees that presented are recommended for October 1st with the exception of these that are uh January uh so that the municipalities will have the time to adjust their budgets to whatever the fees being set at and then the Ocean Center there is not a list in the PowerPoint the list was actually attached to the agenda item because there was too many fees to just list out and in the Ocean Center the main thing that they are trying to do is to create um a more more Synergy through the fees that they're charging then instead of um individual parts and pieces they have a more Collective charge for the entire Center and then some more individual pricing as they uh have Ryan osowski CFO I just want to clarify one thing the the January comment uh we want to adjust it using the CPI index as of January all these fees that we're looking at here would be effective October 1st 20124 with the exception of the solid waste CPI we would not be looking to have that effective for October 1st 2024 that would not give time to the municipalities to adjust their waste huler contracts that one we would use next January's date dat to do effective October 1st 2025 um I guess I'll finish it out from here too the uh departments are here if you have any questions about any particular fees or or um that were listed in the presentation to uh to discuss other than that we have we'll take any questions councilman Robbins thank you chair um Ryan do we have to um accept this right now or is this something we can do after the election to see which way this country is going the the fee scheduled changes are all at the discretion of County Council um the the changes that are listed here were developed in um in a parallel track with the budget although the budget is prepared uh absent any of these fee changes so if they are not approved this does not set us behind in our budget okay uh I'll save the rest for for comments are there any other questions no then uh there's not a motion yet would anybody like to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve so we can open it up for discussion okay Matt Reinhardt makes a motion to approve I'll second it for discussion only discussion and uh councilman Robbins makes that second for discussion uh councilman Robbins thank you chair uh Council just just real quick in excuse me reviewing all this um I don't have some of the problems with uh some of the areas that are addressed for nonvisitors or nonvisitors non-residents um before we start putting on more fees I would just ask this Council to uh please consider let's see what uh if we can get this on after the election or maybe in December the last thing I want to do is we're making a lot of cuts in the in the general fund um I I want to see a lot of our people are struggling I don't want to see us tack on more and more and more fees when um this economy is already heading in a bad dire I don't want to put this burden more burden on the uh on the people if we don't have to I could support something like this uh um after the general election um it would make me feel a lot more comfortable but I I don't I don't think I'd be game for it right now so councilman Johansson yes sir i i u i don't mind waiting but I I don't think an election in November is going to change the economy in December um so so although waiting might be in our best interest I I I I I'm not I'm not sure that December is the right time frame either I'm I'm I'd like to discuss this a little bit and and um see how to move forward in the best interest of the county thank you councilman Santiago so we have a motion pending don't we Mr chair we do have a motion to approve so we could vote it up or down and um or amend it yeah thank you Mr the chair I'm just thinking for a second um sorry I wonder if the uh sponsor of the motion be willing to amend it to a Time uncertain I would and the second there yeah are you making that motion no um no he made it I just suggested it okay okay the uh the motion Matt Reinhardt and the seconder both uh agreed to uh move it to a Time uncertain okay um and we'll we need to discuss the motion before we uh vote on it uh County Manager George reonal well I might ask the council to consider looking at each of these sections individually uh many of the fees we're proposing here are not fees to the general public you have fees for for instance the fire training center that are just between uh the fire departments of the County uh also uh the Ocean Center that's about uh that's for people using the Ocean Center that's the recommendation of our our new uh director who's making things happen over over there and um and again you know has the ability to uh package these things and to U um negotiate but it would be good to have I think that uh in motion as soon as we can so that we can work a little bit towards having the Ocean Center be more uh dependent on the um events that are going on inside it rather than uh is as dependent on the uh some of the um tourist taxes so um if the council would entertain doing that we could bring bring them up uh by section and if there was something there that you guys wanted to defer uh to a later date that might be okay but again we purposely worked through this that most of these would be uh stuff that doesn't necessarily go to the general public um most of them are between agencies or with businesses okay thank you uh councilman Reinhardt I I'd agree to that um there were some and during our discussion during our update I saw jumps in in quite a few that were concerning but it was explained to me for example the Ocean Center um there were some fees there uh that I question but I have the utmost faith in Miss Flanders to be able to be able to negotiate some of those and I was very happy to hear that she has that ability to do just that um so for ones that are not affecting the public uh I I would like to hear one by one if that's I don't know how to word that motion there we can make it uncertain for um can I make a recommendation yeah go ahead yes sure um Santiago thank you Mr chair since we have the motion already to table UNC maybe we can amend that and have staff just bring it back to the next meeting which is just two weeks the ones that we he knows we want to hear and approve it's just a twoe delay does that make sense George um that we we still table it but bring back the inter agency ones at the next council meeting sure that's that makes sense will the council let's we'll we'll have it any other ones will just stay out there W I'll amend to that Tuesday night you don't going through every single one you don't need us to do that right now okay all right so the motion is amended uh the the amendment to a Time uncertain except for um these specific nonresident fees that will come back in two weeks is that acceptable to everybody that that motion uh councilman Johansson Mr sir thank you I I don't want people to lose sight of the fact that that every fee is paid for by the public who's hurting for for the economy right um um if somebody's coming into the ocean center from out of town as an association you know take your P conon whatever that is um they want to come to the Ocean Center we want them to come here um and and and like uh like Mr Reinhard said U Miss flanners can can negotiate that she should have been given that that ability uh early on anyhow um but but raising fire department to fire department fees if if we charge new smyna beach a little bit more to use our our our fire training facility new smrna beach has to pay for that somehow and they pay for that with Ador taxes so so let's not kid our ourselves that we're not raising taxes we're just not raising our taxes right so uh as we bring these things forward next week um uh we need to consider that and and I'm not saying that we shouldn't because again I I had that that that Sunrise metaphor I don't I don't want to ignore our infrastructure until we fall apart um uh like the condos did I I want to I want to pay for what we should be paying for and and I want other people to pay for what they should be paying for and I think the the fire training facility is one of those um I'm sure between cities and a county there's a little quid proquo on on things and and I leave that to George and staff to work out and I I would like to give them the ability to do that as well um um but but when when we move forward to the to the portion next week I I just want everybody to consider that when we're making that decision thank you sir thank you County Manager George reol yeah I just like to say I think we're all cognizant of the fact that somebody is paying for it and I didn't mean to come off to say that uh the Public's not uh at least indirectly but a fee directs the usage uh in other words you know we have a lot of General government is tax based and then there user fees and that's what we have uh here before you today so it helps with maybe get the correct person or the correct entity uh paying for it versus maybe the uh you know general public at large so that that's really you know where fees kind of help us hone in on those who are using it are are paying versus uh you know often and often these things are subsidized so there's that mix of well we lay down the base we have a fire department uh that's paid for through our fire tax uh and the training and certain elements of it are paid through the general fund because they affect the entire County but then when the usage is very specific you know then the taxpayers of that particular municipality should be the ones paying for that particular uh service at that time and again good point with the Ocean Center Center I we're just again trying to have it less dependent on the uh um on the taxes that are the um tourist taxes and have it uh stand a little bit more on its own and we think the value is out there uh again we're not going to do anything to lose business uh and in some cases if you really look at what she's proposing there a lot of it's packaging so we're not nickel and diming uh it's how they package it which gives her a little bit better uh way to sell uh what's going on over there so um that's really what you're looking at there and then some of the other items uh that were on the list uh which we can bring back were uh again uh in like the case of animal services there were complaints really from the public uh from the private sector that uh maybe some of our services were now so low cost that it was hurting uh people veterinarians and stuff who are actually uh trying to also compete and do those services and um and then when it comes to the solid waste uh we are embarking on a absolutely necessary large Capital project that has to be funded correctly and we'll be borrowing money as well to do that so again it's about uh being able to pay for that loan so that we can build a probably nearly $40 million new sell that is absolutely required thank you councilman Robbins yeah and I think this will give us a little bit of opportunity to dig in on some of the ones that will be affecting more of our um our our residents like the the garbage fees uh we've raised some of the Tipping fees I want to say a year or two go cheer haven't been raised in 20 some odd years we raised them and uh what I don't want to do that we've seen in in in in recent events uh and I'll use the this this new phrase I don't want to tax our residents again instead uh at no extra charge because some of the stuff um we do pay for in our taxes and uh I want to use uh a couple things as a model so uh I think uh given a little bit of time to identif those local uh the things that'll affect the locals be U great thanks okay so the motion on the floor is to table uh the majority of this to a Time uncertain but in two weeks uh County staff will bring back uh certain categories that need to be uh dealt with more immediately um any other discussion questions all in favor say I I any opposed and that motion carries also 6 to zero item 11 consideration of changes to Votran uh fairs Janine and Bobby King good morning Bobby King uh Luchia County transit services division director and I'm here to present um a discussion item about a continuation from our May discussion of fairs for V Tran and V Ride uh real quick we're going to go through a very short uh PowerPoint presentation um something that I have to do to um meet the regulations of our federal requirement for title six um so we did six um across the county um public meetings and a few virtuals as well and we did receive a few comments um in those meetings as well as uh via email or from bus cards that um our writers provided and for the most part um most of the fee increases were supportive um obviously we had lots more discussion about the pair Transit rate than any other discussion so just to remind you what we discussed as possible uh rate increases in May uh the only difference um that I'm presenting today is the pair Transit gold service rate we can go up to $4 um it's we're allowed to do double what the um fixed route rate is which will be $2 if you approved today um but we don't have to go to $4 and that is um if we go a whole dollar that's a 33 and a 3% increase all the other uh rates up here are less than 15% or somewhere around 15% or less um for the increases and you can see they're very minimal in increases um so my recommendation would be to do 350 at this point we can always address uh another increase at a later date um but going to move on and let you uh ask me some questions in a slide or two so the V Ride um rates are a little bit different so we charge $2 for one oneway trip and right now it's up to eight miles um we are having a lot of interest Ino ride and so we want to make sure that we continue to provide good service there the availability of rides and um we've been working with our contractor to look at ways to um you know spread it out a little bit uh maybe include another vehicle or two but we're all we're staying within our budget and so they their biggest suggestion was um eliminate long trips and so uh we do um do a free transfer to the bus and so those opportunities are still very much available um but we're recommending that we limit the $2 oneway fair to five miles um so if you want a ride that's going to take you longer than five miles we're recommending an additional dollar per mile um up to 10 miles which would be a $7 um rate and um so that's our that's our recommend recommendation right now so we want to if if approved today make these rates um effective January 1 um with the exception of the V Ride and we're requesting that you allow us to um make those effective as soon as possible so that we can incorporate more volume more um ability to provide the rides and that's my presentation okay councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair um I need you to refresh my memory on the V Ride um that could also take them I think you mentioned also to to the bus you call it to the bus but that's on the bus is only in certain locations much less than what it used to be is that correct correct it's like a like a a hub right we we consider them um our uh our main lines um and those are still in place um through straight through Dand all the way to DeBerry um and then there's another line or two out in the Delona area not the not the old lines that it used to be not those stops right not as many right yeah and uh followup question to that and I probably should ACC this back then but it just rang a bell what are we doing with the bus stops that we're not using so we are going to be removing some bus stops and there's some private companies that have benches there too have they been notified we haven't gotten to that step yet we wanted to make sure that the bow ride was running properly um to make sure that there's no chance of going back to a fixed route line in those areas so we still need just a little bit more time but yes we would work with each of the city's contractors that have advertising um on the shelters or bus benches including our own um so yeah we will we will take those steps when we need to thank you and you do a good job of what you do thank you thank you thank you Mr chair councilman Dempsey have you guys ever looked at what the private sector taxi cab Uber lift charges for the same 10 mile trip so I I did actually um I took talk to a local um taxi cab provider and 10m trip would be 122 to $14 depending upon whether it's in town or out of town okay all right thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair move to approve as presented by staff we have a motion to approve is there a second second by councilman Robbins and the motion is to approve the vde uh immediately and all other is January 1st okay uh David Santiago no okay councilman Don Dempsey we um we're in discussion yeah questions or discussion whatever you as far as V ride goes I uh I've been contacted by a local private taxi cab company and it's it's only inevitable that we're going to run them out of business I mean how can they compete charging 12 to14 for a c R when the government who they pay taxes to is only charging two three four5 dollar I mean just like George said when we offer these cut price uh veterinarian services that the private sector vets are having to compete with the government I mean really veterinarian services are not a government function providing a taxi cab is not a government function um it's it's a losing it's a subsidized Venture I think the government has one straight line buses are one thing because they've been here historically for c for decades I shouldn't say not centuries but as far as cab services and we are directly snuffing out Lyft Uber and these private cab companies locally I I think it it's already in I voted against it but at the very least we should be charging the exact same as the private sector so that we're not going to put them out of business I mean it's one thing to comp compete with them it's another thing to undercut their prices by potentially you know twofold three-fold whatever how how we're trying to create jobs we all talk about how bad the economy is how bad the fiscal cliff is that might be coming after the election and yet here we are using their own tax dollars to to Snuff them out I I'm totally against this but we should be at least charging the same if not more than the private sector so I'm a no on this I would like to address that if you don't mind so the vride um service is not always a door-to-door service it's only a door to-door service for folks that absolutely need it and they have to they have to request that um that special service um otherwise it's a walk to a block sometimes maybe two and I do hear complaints about that they may be willing to pay that additional fee versus aoide um vehicle I me what is the name of the private company that provides this Serv service I well I know Primo taxi does service that we contract I'm sorry sorry via is our contractor and they are a private uh outfit that bid on this contract correct correct just like the contractors that build our roads and do the work for us they bid on it competitively these people bid on this and they are a private sector provider themselves correct thank you go ahead Janine I'd also just like to add that um because we have had a lot of conversations with the private taxi cab services because there is a segment within Transit um that we do have a taxi cab contract for and um we encourage a lot of the people who have taxi services to actually bid on that because it fits a little bit more closely into their normal realm of business the other thing is it's the restricted hours um whereas a taxi cab you can take you know all the way up into the evening and I think one of the comments we got back was your time frame doesn't kind of mesh with what our time frame is they do a lot of evening type of Taxi rides and we're shut down by that time on V ride thank you uh councilman Johansson thank you sir um this more of a question for Bobby your jine do do we or have we ever had a a voucher system for for taxes like instead of instead of $7 for Vite we don't have that service in place I do know of some um agencies in Florida that that do supplement um such rise but instead we have we have taxi cab service on our contract and we can help people through that service so in the in the limited research I've I've done um Mr dy I I think I I I think a a voucher for Uber is cheaper than a bus but more expensive right now than than uh than V rid so um where do you where do you where do you draw the line do you want the individual to pay a little bit more to get there to help the Uber drivers uh or or the or the private agencies of of which V is one of um or or do we um or or do we save the money and and use vde it's I I see both working uh we chose V Ride and Via but uh um I I do see your point with competition with private and and uh um and like George said uh via is private um so uh I like the balance right now because V Ride doesn't work all the time and uh and Uber and taxis go door too which vde doesn't so um I I as a a user although no to that concerned citizen out there I don't use it uh because it's not for me that's not what it's there for um uh I see it given given opportunity and choices for for our folks and and the the fact that we can give choices is uh is good for me and the fact that we can we can serve people that might not be able to afford uh door Todo Service uh the ability to walk uh get a V Ride catch the bus and and head to Walmart or wherever they need to go thank you thank you councilman Dempsey well let me just the million-dollar question is is this running is this covering itself or is this going to be coming to council for subsidies so all of our services are subsidized by um Government Federal State dollars okay so the V Rod is not running it's not breaking even it's losing money it's like sunre on Wheels basically and so we're just creating another form of transportation that the taxpayers are going to have to subsidize and keep subsidizing just because we can give them a $2 cab ride instead of a $12 private market and just I guess kind of Contra what George says I that's not because we had people bid on this that's not a free market that is not capitalism I mean if we have every Private Business have to bid and work for the government that's not free enterprise that's not La Fair that's not capitalism it's not we need Lyft in Uber and Primo or whoever else to be able to compete and offer a quality service for a cheaper price and how are they expected remotely to compete with this I I I think this is terrible that the government is getting into another subsidized mode of transportation it's just going to cost the taxpayers more and more money and I'm just I'm against it and the last thing we should be doing is offer under bidding prices that's going to just wipe out the private sector this is terrible guys councilman Robbins thank you chair Don I hear you um SNF is there is there a point in time maybe um in the next coming months where we can review this to see what kind of other done economic impacts that this may have caused or secondary and third effects how how long we have we been doing this so far uh we've been doing it since December so nine month almost nine months um I would like to say that we implemented this service um to kind of eliminate some of our fix route that was costing us a lot more money to operate um and so we want to still provide service to those folks that needed it um and this is a a less expensive for us to operate service so that was the whole um and I and I understand I know there was a pretty good Savings in there but um you know at the end of the day Don um I I would be open to see exactly you know maybe we let's give this a year uh we're at month n and let's look at it you know the best thing we can do is sit down and look at it and I may I may go your way because we can always if there's deadbeat uh roots that just don't make sense to have you cut them and eliminate them and and that's just it but if this is having other effects to give your people an opportunity if that's what they're they're saying I'd most certainly want to aim as a result of you asking us to look at Votran absolutely and uh and I don't can't even say how many times I heard the complaint of big giant empty buses big giant empty buses so we went to a smaller vehicle which is these are little Vans if you've seen in the little minivans and uh so that's a much smaller vehicle and and again we we competed uh it went out to a company that uh bid on it and provides that service so uh but we certainly will look at it and continue actually the the idea I think where we were going was also to look at the East side we started this on the west side but we'll be looking at it on the East and keep a backbone bus service but eliminate some of these routes as we just did this year uh um on the West Side get rid of The Big Empty buses correct and and I agree with you uh County Manager I'm not saying which way I'd go one way or the other but I I kind of brought this a lot of this forward and I think it's been doing J we make it like I say part of the upcoming uh you know we can start again in January we'll be doing the budget all over again and it' be a great time to review this that's all I'm asking just and that'll give you the 12 months uh of service on this side Don you good we review this I don't want to catch a rock over here I'm still against it I mean it's it comparing George I mean I I understand we have problems with the mainline buses being empty but Mainline buses and taxy cab companies and Uber don't compete against each other directly that's I think apples and oranges but VOD and Uber and Lyft that is Apples to Apples and I you know and bus lines have been around for decades Uber and Lyft and cab this cab company have only been around um more recently so when they opened when they decided to capitalize their businesses when they decided to go down this line of work for their livelihood they already knew going in they're competing with bus lines but now they're having to compete direct directly house to location Transportation they are directly competing with them with an unfair competition it's not fair to expect them to price point their stuff and they get down to $12 let's say the cheapest how do they compete with a government subsidized program that's like me trying to open up a railroad you know what I think I'm going to open up my own railroad to go down to oia from the land how am I going to compete against something that's subsidized that's not fair that's really unfair that's why I want if we're going to compete with them we should at least have the same rates as them that's why I just I don't think this is right okay here's here's my question uh don is public transportation a core government responsibility that's kind of what you're what we're discussing here and is it um is it the same Market or there two different markets are there people who will call um Uber or lift because they can afford it because they don't want to um ride with other people they want to get somewhere faster door too and is um V Ride Votran is it a completely different Market of people that just can't afford that older people younger people that are getting to uh to work or um to the doctor's appointment is it the same market and and but I guess the real question is is it a core responsibility of of County government to provide public transportation is that a question to me yes okay yeah well door pickup no I don't think so it never has been I don't know what cab service was around a hundred years ago or what public transportation there's been you know more than 100 years I mean it's not come on guys I mean we're directly competing with them and somehow we've made it this far I I just I don't understand why we're just we're going to put them out of business I mean if I had to compete in my business with somebody charging you know a third or a sixth of what I charge I mean come on it's just a matter of time you're just going to put them all out and we'll all be working for the government you know and there's there's a term for that when everybody works for the government in some form I mean we're supposed to be capitalists we're supposed to have a free market and let the better product win and I that's why I just I think this is going too far and I think the price point should at least be at the same rate as the competition okay so it sounds like we agree that public transportation is a core government responsibility you you don't see this as that though you think it's just direct I don't think it's a government's responsibility to provide doortodoor transportation okay how much door too do you do and how much of that is um handicapped special needs so we um probably 250,000 rides a year for doorto Door Service for pair Transit service how many 250,000 rides a year wow that's what I said that's what I said oh you're you talking about bde so it's about 2,000 it's not door too um it's a very small percentage of the 2,000 trips a week that vde is providing um for door too or wheelchair accessible needs very small percentage okay thank you uh councilman Johansson yes sir I'm of course I I'm I'm not using it again but I would hope that the general public in fuchia County um doesn't abuse the privilege of VOD by taking it just because it's there uh I would never on the West Side consider looking at my wife after a cocktail or two and going hey they got V ride over here let's take that and abuse that it's only seven bucks um would have to be a daytime cocktail too and and it would be we have lunch in an hour and 15 minutes um so I'm hoping that that that people look like you don't want anything subsidized that's a hope that's a dream in government but a good dream I hope that people don't abuse vde I'm going to take Uber I'm going to take lift I'm going to take a taxi I know V right exists I would never consider taking it because there's people who need it if I take it it's not available for them so um and and the I have this distinct feeling that everybody save one maybe that tests the system I have a feeling that people that need it know about it and the people that don't need it either know about it and don't care or don't care just like the bus I know the bus exists I've got on the bus once to say I did it and that was it I just want to share a a quick thing if you're if you do the app and you get a you actually get a proposal for your trip and a lot of times it is a proposal that includes a trans to the bus right and that shuts down a lot of our users and again I said this is for our Transit using um public and they're familiar with using the bus and they have no problem with that but some folks don't want that transfer to the bus and so if you're living outside of the bus zones you can utilize this for for a trip um much needed service in areas that we don't have we don't have bus but a lot of times it will it will will deter somebody if they see that they have to transfer to the bus so in the big scheme of things I would love to get out of the subsidized everything business I really would um uh it's it's a great dream to have and something we fight for I believe that vde by the way is a step in the right direction cuz we were subsidizing big buses with nobody on them or one or two people on them and those people are using V ride now so instead of using a a big bus and hiding the uh hiding the fact that we're not using a taxi we're using a little V Ride car and now it's become more apparent um so so I think it's a good step I think we need to continue uh on in this direction uh to to work harder and we're doing this in in in every uh general fund uh area trying to decrease the subsidizing of people who are enjoying government dollars so so this is a good step I I like it um it it makes us more this makes us more competitive right now with with Uber and left somewhat um and and I'm I'm I'm leaning toward supporting it thank you Mr chairman just point of order yes what is your point uh I just want to if you can if the chair can tell us what posture are we in right now are we in debate posture that that's what I was just going to do before I called on Don because we've uh I've been pretty generous with time but Don you've been brief each time that you spoke and part of the time you spoke is because I asked you a direct question right that's why so I don't so um we never really did move from questions to debate um you're up again do you have a question a question for yeah Bobby if I could first of all Jeff you seem to elude that um basically this was cutting into parat parat Transit was around way before vde correct yes okay so by me being against VOD is not ipsofacto saying oh Don's against parat Transit yeah and I didn't mean it that way okay yeah because obviously the handicap they need help from the government and I get that and I support that but um in fact we we are having problems with a lack of parat Transit Transportation correct right and instead of using this for par Transit we're using it for other things so that's actually the benefit of vde as well some of those folks have moved to the V Ride service instead of our PA Transit service if they didn't need door-to-door service all this time and they could walk to the curb and they need a quick ride to the grocery store or to the doctor they've transferred to this service instead because they don't have to call ahead days ahead to schedule a pair Transit trip like like all of our pair of Transit Riders do they can get one within a few minutes okay but and then secondly Jeff was saying or the the chair was saying that um you know it's just and Jake was saying he hopes that certain people will will not uh abuse it but this is not income related anybody you know Bill Gates could come down here and take a v ride just like he could do Primo right okay all right I just wanted to make sure we were clear on that no I I understand your point I I think for me the question is is public transportation a core responsibility of local government I I happen I I think that it that it is and I think the reason we've gone to vde is because of what Jake has said this this Council has given direction to cut costs and to make it more efficient um and and vde has done that I I've spent a lot of time outside recently and I see the big buses go by and there isn't anybody on them I mean no nobody at peak hours and then I see a vot ride go by and it has three people in it so I think it's serving the the purpose and it's reduced our cost as which is what the the policy that this Council said so I understand your your uh your concern um Don and and I agree with you I agree with J Jake said I wish we could get rid of all subsidies you know whether it's SunRail or but it's it's a public service that has up until now anyway been a core um government responsibility um councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um something that was brought up just a second ago um Bobby when you when the question was asked by Mr Dempsey and thank you for bringing it up is the fact that we do lack impair Transit transport with respect to to Votran gold um and that any of those Paratransit individuals are choosing vde not all of them can because those vride vehicles are not set up for many of them individual in a wheelchair for example will not be able to utilize V ride because the vehicles are not designed for that they're not and I knew the answer to that but I did want to bring some clarity to it for individuals that are listening that um and also those drivers of for the PA transit buses there's a different training setup for them as well correct right those um the pair Transit drivers um need to know how to strap down Wheelchairs and um of course they assist people to and from their door to inform from medical um appointments I do want to clarify vde does have some wheelchair accessible Vehicles they do have some now okay well that's good they're much smaller than our vehicles and so if you get one one person in there you're then you've eliminated it for someone else yeah okay and I know that we have a very large pair of Transit community on the east side of the County as well so I'll just point that out for CLA thank you okay uh any other questions any other discussion we have a motion on the floor to approve uh vde immediately all others January uh 1st um I don't know where we are so Carissa I'm going to ask you to call the role Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr rinhart yes Mr Brower yes so the motion carries five to one uh good arguments um Don it's a it is a indeed an area of concern yes and it'll be Revisited um next year item 12 to Valia County Consumer appointments to the health planning Council of northeast Florida correct two of the applicants their term is up on October 1st um we've only received an applicant from an application from one of the incumbents that's Miss Carrie be and her application is before you for reappointment if we do get the second um application we will bring her back as well okay thank you um councilman Reinhardt I'd like to nominate Carrie beard uh for reappointment second Johansson okay uh Matt Reinhardt nominates Carrie bear the second was uh by Jake Johansson any questions discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and Carrie is appointed and we hope to get a another soon um item 13 um one appointment to the Housing Finance Authority correct Mr John Adams resigned in December and we have one application of Derek MIRS for this board as well move to approve Derek MIRS as a board member councilman Johansson uh nominates Derek what was the last name Mir Mir and the uh second was by councilman Santiago discussion questions all in favor say I I and Derk is approve six to zero next we do have the um appointments to the inra board we only have 13 applicants for 14 positions um and there is a specific nominating order for this where um the chair will nominate first with the at llarge member being second and then we will go through the districts one through five and then we will reverse that 5 to one at large and chair okay we have a question from David Santiago remind me when they thank you Mr chair when they expire I believe it's September 31st if you give me uh 30th September 30th um he knew I was going to call you up C that's why he smiled psychic also Mr chair if I can ask a staff question yes clay can can you um can you give the council an update I remember I don't know maybe 10 months ago so approximately um we gave some direction to narrow the scope of work that intera was working on um to try to kind of I think the intent I think it might have been discussed to bring that committee into a landing focused Landing with some specific task how far along are we on that uh pretty far and uh just to reiterate uh what we heard several months ago uh Tad led a lot of that discussion so he is able to provide the technical expertise to the group um so we're proceeding on and now we're looking at trying to wrap up some of the uh items that were uh left previously pertaining to Wetlands tree preservation and those things Ginger dere can can I give you if you have any specific detail questions because she's been leading the discussion on the other items other than the storm War so I don't want to put words in your mouth but I want to make sure I think I understood what you said um the focus the narrow Focus that we put them on has been accomplished is that what you said and now we're doing other stuff I would say that uh the presentation by development engineering on our storm water has been completed okay um okay Mr chair and and council members I I there was a lot of debate about you know this how far along do we want to continue with this board and you know what it's focused on so I'm glad they've gotten sounds like they've gotten the work done that we have refocused them on oh I do have to point out tomorrow they Ginger just let me know is tomorrow is a final discussion or working towards the final discussion on the low impact development uh handbook and manual in going forward with the ordinance changes for that okay so I'm I'm a little reluctant to a point because I think the intent of the council at least the majority of the council at that time was to bring this this board into a closure um and I think we're there um I I'm prepared to uh let the terms expire until we we need to reactivate them to anything specific I say mission accomplished I'll leave over there for now Mr chair okay councilman Robbins thank you chair uh Mr Irvin just so I understand um where we're at uh the focus was that on adding regulations or getting rid of maybe regulations it was improving some in some situ I mean in all reality there's going to be situations where there are some Antiquated requirements that need to be removed and things that are could have been mandated by state or federal level or identified issues that our staff has uh caught to make changes to the code to improve it now is those those updates that are state and federal is that something that we can we can do without this boort since we have to update them anyway I mean do we need the board to if if we're mandated to do them do we need the board going through and say yep we're mandated or is that something we can do enra was created by the council in 22 20 202 and there 's a long very detailed work list um if yall feel that you don't enra doing that and want to take the planning and Land Development regulation commission going to be a requirement that's your call okay uh enra was again created by the council to focus on these very specific changes and and concerns uh that were identified back in 2022 uh the uh issue that Mr Santiago was we heard loud and clear you wanted us to stop what we were doing at that time pause it look at storm water they've completed their review of our storm water RS and so now they're trying to pick back up and finish up with the low low impact development some of the changes that could have been done to the wetlands and some of the tree preservation stand where did we land just refresh with the low impact development that was pretty much just uh give recommendations or uh the direction from County Council was to come back with an ordinance that allowed that to be utilized voluntary option to our tradition management requirements okay not a big deal okay yeah David I I think I see I see where you're going here if if we've accomplished a lot of this a lot of this stuff um I could be open to to what you're saying so councilman Reinhard thank you chair so my understanding though um I I don't know if I'm on board with that and the reason being as you just said that they stopped work on issues with respect to Wetlands trees other things in order to work on storm water so that other stuff got put on hold so they have not completed the mission or the task assigned to them correct there's some things that are that they've worked well again I have to reference the list that was presented to the then sitting Council for us from so if y'all don't want that prior list to be addressed by enra and just the work they've done up to this point which is again low impact development was the number one priority then we started working through the tree preservation standards and all that got put on hold oh we've gotten through a majority of it we just haven't wrapped up the final recommendations with them and that would if we did that that would put more of a workload on the plr DC as well well everything that they talk about changing in the code would have to go through the planning and Land Development okay all right thank you all right uh Ginger just for we're still in question mode I think um all these terms expire this month end of this month correct Ginger a Environmental Management director yes the terms expire September 30th of this month so that gives you one meeting we have a meeting tomorrow complete to everything finish up on low impact development design manual code changes those that sort of thing I I don't think that's enough time is it it it's really up to the council about if you want the committee to continue looking at the original work plan so on the original work plan were all of the environmental minimum standards the tree minimum standard Wetlands storm water we added low impact development because we had that Grant from the Department of Economic Opportunity um and um you know any of the other environmental minimum standards if the Council wants the committee to continue to review those that is up to you if you have changes that you're interested in for instance here's a change our Wetland code is 30 years old it references mitigation in a way that we don't do mitigation anymore and we're not allowed to do it that way based on state law so um the staff can certainly bring forward changes for consideration to the council to the pdrc if if you'd like to handle things in that way there just are changes that are overdue doesn't take a committee to come up with those things the point of the committee I think at the time the council created it was to get input from all of those different sectors of you know of our uh County um but it's not the only way to do it so there's still work to be done but it doesn't necessarily require a committee to do it and that's really a policy decision and we'll do it however you all direct us to do it okay I I think it's it it's been a hard task for that committee the their meetings are long what three or four hours a piece um these are all people you know professional people but I I think it's really important and helpful to get the um advice and um the information from from this committee I would be more I think it needs to continue what I would say is let the committee um tell us when they think they are done um it could be in two meetings it could be in six meetings could be a whole another year um but I I'm not in favor of of abandoning it at at this point I've waited several years to have uh low impact development discussed and recommended and and um we had it kind of shut down because of some state law interference with it and now that state law is is not there um so I would like them to continue to discuss it um uh we've got three people on the board is this all for questions still no no question you have a question let's finish questions uh Jake Johansson Jinger can you have this great Committee of of professionals if if we did disband them um item imagine they'd keep their same phone numbers and you'd have access to them uh to ask them questions or their opinions uh correct we have professors environmentalists and and there's even people that that I respect environmentally that that don't have time to be on the committee but I imagine you chat with them as well so um how hard will that be for you should we disband the the inter we certainly have those contacts and and anytime we propose a change to ordinances or policies we reach out to the community so we regularly interface with the environmental Community we go to vCard if we have something new we go to the building industry Association so we do that regardless of if we have this Comm and and if we don't they show up on Tuesday they'll be here so um and and so um yeah I I think those people are are are still going to be there for us um uh my question to you is I I know you have some wrapup stuff in a meeting tomorrow and and this should this happen right now it would be a shock to everybody um do do you think you could if you had to wrap up that you could wrap up all the Loose Ends by the uh end of the year in January 1st go to as as I've tried with other other committees um go to some at ad hoc non outside the the the structure of sunshine so people can chat and and and be flexible and have meetings outside Sunshine where they can discuss things and bring them to you uh do you think you could do that by January 1 certainly right thank you that's all I have chairman okay uh councilman Robins do you have a question or you ready for debate debate okay um I have one more question for probably for for ginger um there's 14 members yes sir 13 have reapplied yes sir that means 13 are willing to serve again and feel like they have the ter who there's well it's actually 11 have reapplied we have two new applications so uh if you appointed everybody that's on your list today it would be two people that haven't been on the committee before there'd still be one vacy seat who is the vacancy who did not reapply oh well yeah two two people chose not to reapply um Alex and Suzanne Shyer okay but yeah Mr HBL originally in the agenda item he was misstated as not reapplying he is in fact uh re okay okay in in addition because Mr Kent isn't here today um that also he wouldn't be appointing his to people which means one of the individuals from today wouldn't get appointed and then I would assume that Mr Kent would have the vacancy if one of you chose to um if all of you chose to appoint somebody okay then perhaps we need to let them have their meeting tomorrow and bring this back the next meeting so that we're all here because oh go ahead I'm sorry we um we're missing another council member as well I don't know if he's coming back did anybody know if Don Dempsey had to uh okay he's coming back okay uh somebody said they had a question I did yes yes sir councilman Reinhardt thank you um there he isn't well no he's not he was here he's gone um I'm not a big advocate of kicking the can down the road um but I also know that you just brought up a good point with respect to Mr Kenton the assignments are from him how much impact would it be to to address this at the next meeting when Mr Ken is here plus I mean if we're talking I mean when this was first put on the agenda it was about the reappointments um I see professor and she's here but that's the only one from enra that I see here that if given the opportunity also they're aware of the fact that we may very well be disbanding this group in all fairness to them that they would be here is it would they entertain the idea that we address this at the next meeting well we don't have a motion yet so you I'd like to make that motion to table this to the next to the next meeting and allow Mr Kent to be here as well as anybody else if that's what we're talking about doing disbanding it because it was advertised for reappointments it wasn't advertised for the possible disbanding of this okay we have a motion on the floor to table this to the next meeting meeting so that all the council can be here is there a second to that motion no second if there's no second then the the motion dies on the floor um I think it's a good motion I'm up next Mr chair yes you are David Santiago thank you um Matt I you know I I appreciate where your your motion came from it came from a good place I respect it um I also have a mixed feelings well not mixed but I think we ought to get out of the business of the council members missing that we don't act our our our our Direction and our cause is if we have a quorum we work um and um and I I I I don't think we should you know put off anything that we have to do um that doesn't mean we can't ask for it I get it I just I I stand against you know those types of that premise of uh of work um as far as the the committee on this and making a vote if people are not here the council is an open Sunshine public business I think I I think I've expressed this opinion in the past if the meeting is noticed and we're not violating any type of of of required notices of things this is not in ordinance stuff like that we're here to take care of business um and if something comes up somebody makes a motion if it's within our purview to make a decision I think we should make decisions um and we live with those decisions we don't we don't govern by committee we're the decision makers um when it comes to enra I appreciate the work they've done I think I complimented them at the last time when we kind of narrowed their focus to that because I think if I'm recalling the debate from last time it was really all over the place for what I was getting it was it I I didn't see any real successes coming from it so we channeled it to something that was a high priority I think Mr chair you have often said that flooding is one of our biggest priorities and sounds like staff said they did the work we don't need additional layers of government staff has made it very clear we all know we have the plrc which is made up of professionals also that we qualify and we appoint them based on what they bring to the table so there is a layer of public participation and guidance that's already mandated by Statute we have it let's stop creating additional layers of government Don we talked about you know you made a compelling argument and you almost had me there but this is another layer of government and there's a cost to it I know we're not anytime staff is spending three and four hours in a meeting there's payroll staff time to that the prep time for that we already have one layer let's not continue the additional layers but I think Jake I would support your suggestion of let them go through the end of the year wrap up any loose end that they have and submit their work and thank you and if we need you again we'll re-engage you but at the me at the part this particular time we have pdrc let's stop creating layers of government guys I I came here to reduce the size of government uh um in a reasonable way and there's plenty of checks it's in balance and Mr chair I think said the word you said you don't want to uh abandon low impact development neither do I and I don't think uh this committee going away impacts low impact development I want 31st 2024 second Johansson okay the motion is to uh table this and to extend I'm going to have I'm going to ask the attorney in a in a minute if if this is table the appointments do it this way to table the appointments and but to extend their time of service until December 31st December 31st of this year can we do that uh yes okay and Jake Johansson you made a second I did okay um I know we're done with uh questions um councilman Robbins and Council Johanson are still on I one more question for ginger I don't remember did we get a report on flooding as flooding solved no sir what happened was um development engineering staff um spent a couple of meetings you know because every meeting is a try to understand the issue U meeting and and education of the committee and then they did make recommendations to your development engineering staff about some code changes the staff is now now taking those recommendations and going to bring forward actual language for consideration so you haven't had that report yet because that was um just at the last um enra meeting um you've we've brought forward recommendations on low impact development that's what we've been implementing and uh that we will finish that up tomorrow uh and then um they've made significant progress on the um tree removal issue which is initially why the committee was established if you recall there was um quite a bit of uproar in the community about trees um and they've also um gotten pretty far through um Wetland ordinance so those are the things that I think we could get to you by at the end of this year liid storm water regulations trees and wetlands okay thank you uh councilman Robbins thank you chair David I think you're on point you know as long as I know for me as long as we um are reducing some of these layers of bureaucracy and and not having as much overlap I think we're heading in a better Direction um but you know we have I think we have to remember we have higher standards just because it says minimal stand or minimum standards that doesn't mean minimal uh we do have higher standards than a lot of state and and and federal uh regulations out there so I think that's important but uh in 2022 just that little torical on it and some of the things Matt why we did switch gears is because at one point we had about a 6-in uh proposal of new regulations on top of our already already standards council's changed but the council changed I think 80% of the council it changed as did the direction of the new Council to say hey we want less less less less so that's a little history history on that but I think uh uh uh Mr Johansson recommendation of given time till the first of the year uh is smart and and things could change I mean this is not necessarily final but things can change in between now and then or an issue can come up but I think we've uh addressed uh some of the concerns or all the concerns and and we just heard confirmation that that'd be done so thanks councilman Dempsey I just want to make sure I'm clear that uh we're just talking about extending this current board we're not voting out the board correct we're extending it to right we retable the new appointments or have this up for discussion again when Troy's here I think the motion on the table is that and December uh 31st they all go away with no discussion about whether we're this is actually a vote to end it then yes okay yeah because just like I've said before I mean you know I'm against ending this because I think there's nothing more powerful than a volunteer who wants to get involved in his community and you know we got some Heavy Hitters here I mean looking at these applicants I mean Wendy Anderson Bob Fitz Simmons I mean these are we got an architect we got a farmer we've got um lawyer civil engineer I mean we got some pretty Heavy Hitters and to just sit there and tell them w we don't care what you guys have to say um you know we're going to do whatever we want I'm not an engineer I'm not a a consultant I'm not a builder I'm not you know an environmental expert like Miss Anderson it's just I think to sit there and not listen to what they have to say I think there's uh the old saying there's safety in the multitude of council um we need these people to maybe offer uh better ideas later on and just sit here and say ah we don't need you we're smart we'll take care of it I I think is wrong I mean I think we need to give them a unified platform to be able to debate from and give us a report same reason we have the pdrc we have these other um organizations I think what they do is important and the fact that they're volunteering uh make sure these guys have a a full dance card and they've got a lot of other stuff they could be doing yeah that's probably um more important to them family and business and all that they're donating their time and their expertise to help the benefit of the community so I don't think we should be getting rid of these people at all I think we need to keep them in place and hear them out so I'm I'm a no for disbanding this thank you you just saved me five minutes um said that as as well as it could be said I completely agree I'll just add this I don't think it's making us more efficient to get rid of this organization and giving it uh to staff pdrc um I think the information we're getting from these professionals is is really beneficial and flooding and liid low impact development are two of the most important things we face for our future I don't think we're there yet and I appreciate the fact that they have all decided to except for one decided to reup that says a lot to to me so I'm a hard no on it as well um councilman Johansson yes sir I again I'd like to uh point out that that we we are not taking these people away from government we're we're disbanding a organization that needs to meet once a month and only once a month never to meet ad hoc any other time because they can't they can't collaborate because they're under sunshine and they can't talk and I know Dr Anderson and Suzanne shriber and Melissa Lamers and the rest of the good people don't get together except for once a month to discuss about the issues of our County and the environment that's correct right doctor you do not meet however if we wrap up in January and this committee goes away then they can get together whenever they want this this elective body has a citizen who is not in the plr DC has nothing to do with economic development has nothing to do with growth management and he emails us every day sometimes at 2: a.m. giving us his input on what he thinks is best for the community I do not for see any one of these environmental Advocates shutting down their email going home and planting flowers They're going to keep on emailing us they might be even more Nimble and more I I say in our nickers but more able to engage us to engage plrc and to engage Ginger and to engage each other because they're not part of sunshine anymore I I believe that this is a very strong group of people as as well as the rest of the Committees but I believe after they get over the fact that we're getting rid of a committee a formal committee that they're stronger if they want to be and and the enra folks by and large are very passionate and they're not going to quit and and they may be stronger once they're not tied to Sunshine and so I support this I don't want them to go away I just don't want to have to tie them up once a month for four hours to get it done and if they don't have the passion then they drop off that's that's just how it goes thank you sir councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair well said Jake well said I think they would be more effective in in in how you described it um and you know I I think Don I just want to make sure for at least for me um my statement in in making that motion is not uh uh I don't want to put exact words in your mouth but I'm going to paraphrase I think you said we know everything we don't don't need you anymore I'm by far not saying that I'm saying these are very competent intelligent people um and I'm very gracious of their uh contribution um at the same time my job is bigger to evaluate right we talk about uh size of government right expenses um you know I'm going to quote Ronald Reagan again it's my third time since I've been here right nothing lasts longer in life than a government program right and I think they've done their work I think they continue to be more effective collaborating together um and we still have a Advisory Group that's going to be a layer in there for us there's we still have P pdrc we have a professional staff uh and we have pdrc as that that uh that additional layer I mean under that premise Don let's have another committee for every single committee we have a subcommittee and a subcommittee because people want to volunteer I'm being fous a little bit right but there kind of come the time when when let's keep reducing the size of government when we can and I think like Jake said I think they'll be able to collaborate better and we know many of those individuals are not scared to come up to this microphone and tell us what they think and they'll still be involved thank you Mr chair kelman Robbins thank you uh clay this might be a question for you thank you who gives enra their I shouldn't say Direction but their topics of discussion does that come from Council or is that staff recommendations that was y'all uh when we put this together there was a work program that was identified that the council approved as part of the creation of the uh committee so you guys don't are you there more of like um to explain it or are either there to kind of uh steering committee or or Ginger uh hit it right on the head we provide on the existing regulations we go through we identify as we've referenced Antiquated or perhaps out ofd things that need to be changed we identified changes that have occurred at the federal and state level then we put out what staff sees as uh the changes that need to be done to address some of those concerns then at that point the members debate uh going through the various sections of the code what should or should not be there and if there's something that needs to be modified how that should be modified how is that different from then the plrc uh the planning and Land Development Reg ation commission um is a a state requirement from a land uh land planning agency and um they have to review consistency for the comprehensive plan and so uh from that perspective they're not necessarily they're not currently engaged in uh the making of the sausage they just see the end product and make a determination if it is uh consistent with the comp but they can though if if if so directed they can uh we can bring forward to them I mean it's planning Land Development it's planning regulation commission planning yeah again this is enre was something that the council uh you there was uh discussion about the as you referenced after our April 22nd or April 2022 Workshop a desire to look at the codes and see what would come up would be the best codes available uh we there was a work program yall have approved it if you feel that you want to transfer that over to the planning and Land Development regulation commission as part of this change that's your prerogative and could we uh essentially if we wanted to rotate people in some of uh the volunteers from enra we can also assign them into the plr DC at some point right uh right now your planning Land Development regulation commission you would have to modify how it's created and the membership yeah but but we could essentially and vote people in and as Ginger referenced uh before we bring anything to the planning and Land Development regulation commission be it a comp plan Amendment or a uh U change to Our Land Development regulations or our zoning ordinance we send copies of the proposed changes in advance of any public hearing to get feedback from a variety of environmental groups including the environmental Coalition of volution Flagler counties uh dream green valua we also send it to the Valia building industry Association and to vCard I know that vCard has a standing committee that reviews what we send them and then they'll send us recommendations so we're already beforehand sending it out many of the folks who are on enra are participating in some of these organizations some aren't so again you may not necessarily get everybody's expertise that's currently on enra but there will be availability of feedback from those who have a interest thank you clay and and to David's point we just named about a half a dozen of outside groups and boards and committees and subcommittees that essentially overlap and they all they all talk already so I want to make everything count I I feel like um like like they've accomplished what what what we've said but it's getting I do think it's getting a little redundant and um that's it uh couple quick questions how many staff members are on enra two of you and is there an attorney um the number of Staff members varies depending on the topic there's typically always myself and at least one other Environmental Management employee typically um there's there's three of us we have two U staff that are the admin support we have the folks from um it that come and set up the mics and all that kind of stuff and we do have an attorney assigned to us once a month play is is there as much as his schedule allows yes once a month okay so that's the expense it's a significant amount of staff time I I would say that um the input from the committee is interesting and helpful and um but it does take a lot of Staff time because in addition to the time we spend in the meeting um we have to prepare for the meeting and that's really where the where the time is so you know as an example one of the questions was what do all the other counties do about tree replacement fees so we spent a significant amount of staff time researching every other County and what they do for tree replacement it's not time Wasted by any means it's interesting and um telling information but but that is happening behind the scenes so there's there's a lot of Staff investment in the committee and in the education and work of the committee okay thank you and uh clay how often does the uh planning and the pdrc meet once a month uh they do they not have enough to do is plrc is one of the busiest yes boards in the county yes sir so if they take on this do they fit it in their day or do they do another meeting again we would have to um see what happens uh and I can't does it mean they meet twice a month uh no it doesn't mean that they go till 5 six o'clock at night possibly okay okay I I just wanted to get that out and put it in perspective that these are volunteers and they've already reup to volunteer we're not we're not imposing on them they may get together again um they make come up and talk to us as individuals but I think it's Irreplaceable for them to be in the same room there's an energy and a Synergy that comes from all of them being together and hearing one another changing each other's minds from time to time um agreeing on I just think it's it's extremely valuable information and especially with dealing with some of the most pressing issues that we we face in the county of of the way we develop and and flooding um Danny before I go to you I want to ask I want to remind this um the council um through the uh attorney there's only six of us here so there's a possibility of a tie if there's a tie vote on this then the motion um the fails right motion would not carry yes okay I just wanted to bring that to light uh councilman Robbins thank you chairman I think it's uh important to recognize and stress too that Nothing is Stopping that Dynamic from happening if anything it's probably strengthening it um these folks most of them all communicate they're all part of some of these groups at Auto bonds and uh which we get emails from regularly if anything it gives them the ability to to like Mr H said operate outside of this the sunshine but um I want to be clear nothing is by tbling this that enra board is is not restricting anybody's communication and and ability to uh project their opinions to this this this body so I want to be clear I don't want us painted that picture because that's far from the truth councilman Johansson one last stab Ginger if if they were to disappear on January 1st and wanted to get together but didn't have a space could you find a space for them all they get together and collaborate thank you very much okay we do have uh a member of the committee Dr Anderson who would like to to speak if you would please do that now thank you chairman Brower and since I was invoked as one of the experts um on the committee I thought I should step up and share a few thoughts so um for a little bit of History um councilman Santiago I was thrilled in March when you said hey we really need this committee to focus on flooding I had been begging for a year and a half to get to flooding and storm water issues um in April we then had to finish the work we were right in the middle of on trees we didn't quite finish it but we got it to a a pause so we did trees in April in May Tad Caspar and his team came and gave us our first um educational program on storm water didn't finish but Tyler momberg and Alex seninsky and Bill lights um civil engineers and environmental Consultants asked really good and hard questions um sent those staff back to bring back answers in June they were not ready so they cancelled the June meeting we did not meet in June in July Tad and team came back educated us some more we talked some more in August we did not have a quorum so we did not meet that is what has happened since you all gave us a charge to do flooding we have had two meetings on flooding which were mostly educational we have not started on policymaking on actually working on the language of the code we have a lot more work to do could we get it done between now and December maybe if we speed up the pace and I would love it if we could speed up the pace because as you say we are all really busy people doing really important work elsewhere as well but as chairman Brower noted it is really valuable to have us all in the room at the same time learning from each other collaborating I have learned so much from Bob Fitz Simmons from John noblet from Jack seret from Jessica gaw Tyler momberg he and I used to fight all the time and now we find ourselves on the same page more often than not we are doing the sausage making that yeah it would take twice as much time for pdrc to get in there and do the kind of work that we do um and it has taken a long time two years I'm frustrated nothing is slower the only thing slower than higher education is government and it frustrates me I want answers now but it's important work and you know and and I would love to come up here on every single development plan um Jacob's Road all those things that got um postponed today and say you know what I have to say about all those and I used to do a lot of that I realized it was a much better use of my time to be on a committee that could rewrite the codes that could actually change policy not just fight each little development plan one at a time and that's why I'm there so and that's why you've seen less of me here um fighting individual codes so I know I went over time um I just wanted to say it's been a really valuable process for me um I think we have more work to do between um to get the work done I don't know if we can do it until uh by December but whether you reappoint or you do whatever I I ask you to let us continue our good work thank you thank you uh councilman Santiago we have one more member of the public you want to hear from him before you okay John Nicholson John Nicholson uh Beachside um I was disappointed uh when I heard that the meeting two meetings uh flooding comes up everywhere I go all right I'm not affected by flooding because I'm on a hill but the two streets behind me they go two feet underground underwater all right uh it's out in LPGA it's all over my city all right the idea that you've had two meetings and want to stop them now was beyond me because I don't think you knew there was only two meetings to discuss this all right uh it is a very very important issue we're spending or got $3 million to do a study in Daytona Beach all right and that's not even going to solve anything it's just going to let us know that there's flooding and these are possible ways to solve it uh they don't have enough information and we don't know how many meetings they will have until December we don't know who will be available to put this on the pl DRC doesn't make any sense they're one of our busiest groups than to add on to something I went through this when I was teaching they decided Tallahasse that we didn't need all of these courses all right they were redundant so why did you need jazz or orchestra or band or marching when all you needed was just one chorus class you get rid of all the others why did you need all the sports so they wanted to eliminate five or six of the sports so they were going to eliminate 70 of our teachers from our school because they were not needed they were not part of Education all right are you doing the same thing now by saying we don't need these this is just another level of government I think this is a level that is not being discussed at PL RC that would never be discussed at PL RDC nor would it these people get together and discuss this in the depth that you're asking them to all right they need government help to guide them into this issue and you get the best in the brightest and you learn from them and I think by disbanding it you are eliminating the information that you need to make your decisions thank you thank you uh councilman Santiago thank you chairman and I know probably out of I'm out of order um as far as talking again and uh so I'll call myself out um I I I was a little Disturbed with one of the comments though because I want to make sure that maybe I misunderstand the I understand this group to be advisory in concepts of methodologies not in actual drafting of language um so I want to make sure that I get clarity that uh the way it's been working out the system is we are having them look at specific changes to the codes and they are making recommendations on the language and the specificity on some of those issues okay thank you for clarifying that Cay thank you for sharing that because I didn't know that was the the um and maybe that's my fault um I thought it would be more advisory from concept perspective and then you know we have people put it together um all compelling arguments I still think we can get the work done um as the motion stands thank you m chair thank you councilman Robbins I just have one last thing to add guys what's the number one issue when it comes to solving our flooding problems anybody want to take a poke less rain less besides less rain it's money how many did we just get from transform 386 we just raised storm water fees we just we're getting ready to raise a whole bunch of other stuff Don he brought up a a good point during 386 trying to get another 50 million for storm water it didn't ride it didn't fly where were some of these people in this group fighting for more storm if if storm water was in the at a at a top level um concern how come we didn't hear more people you know um wanting more funds for storm water um I think there's other ways to skin this cat um and uh there's other there's other groups that overlap to do this well I'll tell you where I was trying to get more money for storm water I went to uh to Donna and asked her um asked her how do we get more water more money for storm water and she she came up with a lot more money so we could take it from here through through through the uh transform 386 fund so um I didn't let that um lie our number what is the cost of the flooding um you just related it to to money we just need money and I I disagree with that we need money but the reason is because the way that we're developing and if we continue on there's not enough money that can come into this County to repair all the damage so this committee is extremely helpful in in these areas to recommend um policy um to us to uh to Clay um I I just think it's a complete [Music] um uh we're we're we're not being responsible by telling them um thank you for your service now disband before we get uh and and yeah they can meet privately but it's it we won't have the same energy and Synergy as we do right now they they need to be allowed to continue their work they can tell us when they're when they're done at least give them uh another year um councilman Dempsey yeah I um just being over here on the West Side in hearing uh concerns about I'm a I'm a proproperty rights person as you know I believe developers should be able to develop um there's got to be responsible development I think we all say that in campaigning and uh but flooding is real I mean it it is places that I've gone to 30 years ago that were never flooded now are flooding and I don't I haven't settled in on what the answer is Danny you just asked me the question what's the the cause of flooding or whatever I don't know I really don't know is it overdevelopment is it just the weather in general General and just the cycles of the weather I have no idea and I don't think the problem's fixed I don't think there's a clear answer as to what the issue is I would love to know what their committee I mean these you look down this list these are not just I mean these people are all experts in their areas and they um I think it's we should be honored by the fact that these successful uh professionals are willing to give us their time and time is money and they're willing us to give us I mean how much would we spend on a consulting firm God knows we spend what 50,000 100,000 for consulting firms and here we got people probably warranting that same kind of money to give us advice and they're doing it for free and we're talking about money how much do we spend on Hunden for for that study I mean come on guys we're getting a highquality Consulting Group willing to give us valid consultation advice for nothing and we're going to sit there and talk about the couple hundred extra dollars or whatever it is in staff time and it's great that staff is forced to be there because it forces them to show up and be educated by these experts I I think it's terrible to sit here and just just just not give them the Forum to speak from and I don't know if we've even have we even contacted Ronny Mills and the pdrc and asked them if they even want this extra burden I mean we may lose some volunteers from the pdrc who don't want all this extra work I mean here's people wanting to do it and they're highly qualified I think it's terrible to to get rid of these guys so I'm I'm going to stand by my no vote Mr chairman yes of order I call the question okay uh councilman Robbins wanted to speak do you uh if you want to call the question okay well turn about as fair play Maybe um okay it's fair play Mr chair you shouldn't say that because it's fair play because it's part of our rules I just didn't like that comment I'm playing within the rules I don't really okay fine you didn't like the comment there's a whole bunch of comments you make that I don't like and I just let it go because that's how you are Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Robin with the [Music] rules can you repeat the motion Miss green yeah to table the reappointments and extend the appointment of the current board members until December 31st yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr um Reinhardt no Mr Brower no but it's a TI vote and so the uh so it fails the committee will end December 31st which is um no sir you're you're back in you're back in the situation of appointments correct okay move to approve all appointments uh uh recommended uh for the board we would for a term expiring when it's as listed I'm not going to get into that right now it's it's a two-year term correct correct there is a nomination method though um got it so I'm not legal would have to advise if you can get of the I I then I make the motion that we go individually and get these nominations taken care of individually that's a motion okay he said we can go we have a motion in a second to do the nominations all in favor say I I any opposed I'll start by nominating uh Wendy Anderson and I know this is come up before it's entirely up to council you can vote once as a slate or vote on each uh I made the motion to go individually okay okay and just for clarification uh Suzanne Shyer Alex zinsky did not want to be correct okay do we have a second for Mr brower's appointment for Wendy Anderson okay uh any discussion on Dr Anderson all in favor say I I I I and she is Mr chairman I recommend uh Donna brosmer as my at large rep uh understanding I believe Chrissa that if she gets elected to the school board she canot participate I forget this what is the other board she's on uh she she's she may be on the school board in November it's not a dual office holding got it all right Clay did we have anything when this was created that prohibited being a member of another board okay perfect so we have a second for Mr Johansson's appointment all all in favor of Donna Brer say I I any opposed Donna is nominated can you clarify who was the second sorry councilman Robbins who's next on the rotation um Mr Dempsey is Bob Fitz Simmons second Johansson have a nomination of Bob Fitz Simmons seconded by Jake Johansson all in favor say I I he is nominated Mr Reinhardt is next uh nominate Jessica gal second Johansson all in favor say I I I you got the second Carissa it's Mr Johansson yes sir the next person is Mr Robbins Carissa do I get one or two you'll get a second one later on okay I'll nominate Bliss Jameson second Johansson all in favor of bliss Jameson say I I any opposed she is approved the next person would be Mr camp but because he's not here it's Mr Santiago Tom Burbank Second Joe Hanson all in favor of Tom Burbank say I I any opposed the next person is Mr Santiago second Johansson all in favor of Sarah Lee say I I any opposed next person would be Mr Kim but because he is not here it is Mr Robbins Melissa Lamers second Johansson all in favor of Melissa lammer say I I any opposed she is approved six to zero next council member is member Reinhardt uh Tyler mber second Johansson all in favor of Tyler momberg say I I any opposed he approved six to zero next person is Mr dimsey uh Jessica gal I already did oh you got her oh I'm sorry what br's gone current members that you currently have appointed are Miss Wendy Anderson Miss Donna brosemer Bob Fitz Simmons Jessica GW Bliss Jameson Tom Burbank Sarah Mory Melissa Lamers and Tyler malber John gono all in favor of John geronimus there second second Johansson sorry say I I I any opposed the next council member would be member Johansson I nominate John hoblick is there a second second Matt Reinhardt seconds John hoblock all in favor say I I any opposed public is the final member is uh the chair is there anybody left jacket um jacket and lights lights bill lights correct you would have um Mr Bill lights that could be appointed by Mr Kent and then there would be one vacancy did you say something okay both of the vacancies or appointments would be Mr kin to make all right thank you all right we completed with item 14 you're satisfied okay and that was our last item do we have any public participation yes I believe that those are them Pardon Me Carrie just gave them to you okay I thought it was the one he just did but so uh John Nicholson and then uh you'll be followed by Karen Clark Johnson to Tony beach side I know I boted it earlier about the uh the voting but um it was brought up and I find that the public I mean when people look at your meetings it is generally someone mentions to me that they've looked at it they're from either the county or from a city it's not the general public at large they don't know you guys from a whole noal unless you are in a group somewhere that group will know you but another group will not so the totality of the county all 500,000 or 600,000 people knowing all of you is virtually slim or none um likewise with my city the same thing people ask me all the time what's so and so like um I've attended over 5,000 meetings over the years so I generally know after several meetings what a person is like all right I generally know whether they're conservative or they're liberal or if they have an agenda uh someone's going to talk about the jail oh yeah I know who that is all right someone's going to talk about the East Side someone going to talk about the west side I know who it is all right so they'll ask me what is his view why all right um so when they ask me these things it's like well I know this person and I like with the uh chair's rce all right there were four people I knew three of them personally one I knew of all right and I could generally say that um the runoff would be two all right it would probably be Brower because he had been chair he's done nothing terribly wrong he will get a number of votes the second one was backed by a number of wealthy people well connected people he would be the second one and sure it turns out that way so um when it was said that I was not going to vote for who I'm going to vote for well actually I don't even know who I'm going to vote for like the last three presidential elections I don't know until I get in the boots because both of of the presidential not the chairs the booths the presidential ones are both bad candidates it's very hard to get good candidates to run I think the c three of the candidates that ran for the chair are all good candidates all right um I may end up voting for Jeff because although I said he hasn't moved as fast as I would like him to be I'm worried about his opponent the change you guys are working great together as a team the other councils that I've been over the last 40 years have never work together this well so I would hate to change something that's working well uh my other candidate that would be for Matt for the county for my city would be Ken and for Christa for the Schoolboard thank you thank you uh Karen Clark hello everybody well I'm here to say nice things number one we want to thank the street crew that comes and takes care of the trees um Robert Peterson up in Glen with as you know we have very old trees and when anything gets called in they're there in an instant and they take down whatever needs to be done and you'd never know they were there so we got to give them a thumbs up same thing we need more Hills block view because the cars and whatnot in the Glenwood area which has Hills and you can't see the car in front of you and again Somebody almost went and I have a big truck and the guy behind me didn't see it thank goodness he never hit me he's still still alive um let me see the clay when you go into the zoning department the first two people you see is Breezy and Cat they have to be cloned because they make everybody feel like they're important and I've seen other times when they didn't and I went and called clay and let him know when there's an a person that doesn't need to be around human beings that are somebody that greets you um and this weekend we had cows little teenage five of them running on Grand Avenue and I called the 911 Sheriff's Office non emergency they already knew whose cows they were they were only like a mile and a half away but we were able to for some reason they walked in my backyard we closed the gates on three of them but the deputy was in there they had the lasso I mean it was four horses showed up with people we heard you needed help over here so it was a whole community of various background people coming in to help round out five cows and somebody loaned one guy who ended up being a rodeo man during his as he said younger lighted weight person but he got the two cows but it was a whole Community I mean they come in with a cow trailer coming in you know it was absolutely amazing and that's why we want to keep the west side not housed up make them you know anyway thank you and it's it's a pleasure to be still living here I'm here 30 years and most of you guys know me in the county so thank you guys that's it thank you very much uh Thomas rutage good afternoon thank you for your service to our community um I'm Thomas rled 4112 orial Avenue Wilber SE you've heard from me before regarding the severe erosion on the 4100 Block of uh um South Atlantic Avenue in Wilbur um since that time we've all had a chance to kind of take a look at it uh um Mr reinhardt's been kind enough to come out and take a look amongst others um just to keep you up to date uh Pon Inlet uh since all that time they have had a chance to take a look at it and they have sent a letter to uh the council via uh Matt and also the the staff the staff of the uh government here here the the uh County manager and with a full unanimous vote they have the full weight of the pon Inlet government that wants to take a look at this uh to advance it to the level of U an agenda item with a full Council debate and uh what I wanted to do for some of you who may not have been down there or taken a look yourself is my concern is mainly about the road and the aggressive erosion that will take place in a storm with a a a decent Siz Surge and uh but I did want to go back three spaces because I forgot to say this when I walked up the microphone I want to thank the county and I have gratitude for reupping the Trap bags through there I don't think they'll stand up to a storm surge that comes way above them with huge wave action that's loaded with debris that would puncture them and all that I don't think that would work but for now to prevent the further erosion on the normal hightide of vents it certainly does help and I'm thankful for that that that that happened I think the staff and the government here um one thing I want to point out that may not be re aware is when the road goes it's going to take several more houses if the if the 60 ft of sand goes it's going to take several more houses okay and then when it eats into the road it's going to go into the west side of South Atlantic Avenue on that block and those people are not wealthy people let me break this down for a human interest story for you if you want is the guy on the North End of the block is 95 years old he's vibrant he drives if if his house gets threatened and he's got to go he he's probably not going to survive it to the South there's four small apartment blocks those are the Working Poor you know the people that pay the most in taxes or the Working Poor because of user fees and this and that and the other they're the kind of people that are going to have to look at their daughter and say we're going to have to leave the cat behind uh the guy further south is a fixed income retiree he's a regular guy he put his life savings into building his dream retirement home his is definitely threatened he he has no way to affect this at all except through his government which is you guys to help do something about it so what I'm asking is please let's Elevate this to the next level please back up our representative at least get us talking about it further I'm not asking you to solve the problem now just to get it on the agenda for the future thank you thank you very much and uh that takes us to uh closing comments of the County Manager I have nothing today and that takes us to the closing comments of the County Attorney and no comments thank you that takes us to uh councilman Robbins thank you chair I have nothing other than there there was a couple comments that I'd like to just quickly address uh on a previous item um it was said that we need to change our development pattern and and the way we are developing when it comes to uh what we do in on Incorporated valua but outside of the Cities uh staff did a great presentation a year year or two ago that that gave our development numbers and what we've actually done here in unincorporated valua and and what I would like to do chair is just try to get a bead on what we can do and people are noticing it in the community of of what we can get done and the ability that we can get it done and the speed that we can get it done at but as a team what would you knowing what we know about really the minimal development compared to the cities in unincorporated valua at this point right where we're at we've addressed the LI standards other than that what do you what can you recommend so we can work better together to change our development standards or or the way that that we are developing in unincorporated valua is that something you can direct us on or yeah i' I'd be glad to number one is you just mentioned lad I think what the enra committee did was say um you can do it if you want not do it if you want I think it I think they need to go back and look at it and it needs to be other than that that needs to be some well you asked me so I'm giving you an answer so we uh we need to have real implementation of lad and that might require and working with plrc and Clay's uh group um division of uh not rec not stacking layer upon layer of regulations to to remove some to use a good liid we're we're not we're not anywhere close to um being finished with that yet the um you I think you just said and I'm paraphrasing so correct me if I'm wrong that there's not much development in West Felicia I didn't say West fuchia I said compared to the cities because you're saying we have to change our development pattern other than projects that have been and I'll put this in a a phrase that we can all understand other than projects that have had prior development rights or been plotted or more final plot plans uh compared to the cities we haven't approved and I've been on the same I've been on the council the same time you have chair we haven't approved that much compared to the cities or change the comp plan that that much and that is a fact what I'm trying to do is see how we can all better align and kind of I shouldn't say change your thought process cuz I I I don't want to change who you are but I'm trying to understand and I as a team and a team member when when we get told that we need to change a development plan what would you like to see different other than liid which we've already addressed well we've not addressed it but I so I would like to address that I've also asked when uh when uh John Booker came to me last week and said what do you want to put on the agenda for the legislative I would and uh I don't think this requires legislative action but I would like to see this Council set a requirement for a super majority to change the comp plan or to change zoning because that's the the issue we we are very um cognizant of the uh property rights that somebody who buys land for development has and we're not very cognizant of the property rights of everybody that lives around it who gets flooded from the development that happens the thing that we can so so those are two more the other thing that we could do that would probably have the most impact is we just approve uh more studies for um uh the different flood zones in the county we we need to complete the studies of of uh all of the the different districts for flooding and come up with the required um storm Order Plan um for each of those and we can also we can affect the cities quite a bit according to the county um Charter in the minimum uh minimal standards that are required I think we need to go back and look at all all of those um minimal standards you know I have kids I I don't want to teach my kids just the the minimum or the minimal standards in in living life and treating other people I want them to to do the the very best we need to do the same in our cities we we continue to wash our hands of it and say we can't affect the cities we can um we have the tools to to do that so that's probably where we could have the most and greatest effect uh chairman in all in all due respect it makes it seem by the statements and given the information the factual information that we have that this council is not doing some of that stuff but if those are concerns then why haven't why are we getting kind of your teammates getting blamed for it why hasn't some of this stuff come up but at the end of the day we all as as Property Owners we all have those same rights but it's getting packaged in a way that I I don't think is 100% on the on on the up and up and we've heard a lot of none of this and and we have minimum standards in Valia County or uh with the bluch County Council on our standards minimum minimum standards not minimal same thing no it's not the same thing chair minimum standards our minimum standards in a probably nine out of 10 cases are above state and federal requirements minimal is you're doing minuscule you're doing minimal you're giving minimal energy towards something that is not if if if we actually sat down and looked at this and we've been both doing this the same amount of time there's two different definitions for that word and we have to start being a little bit more more careful but I just want us to work better together I I didn't hear any issues uh I heard some some new issues but I just don't want us as a team to get blamed for something when none of this stuff has come up in the last four years when when some of this stuff it could just could be packaged together I just want to work better together and try to get us all on the same team and if we're doing something wrong I think we're all old enough that we could can take that constructive criticism but also if we're doing something right I think it's best for the team to also say that we're doing something right so thanks okay well since you asked me I'll just end it with this I'm I'm not blaming this Council but I have spoken at nauseum for four years about the issues of flooding and that we need to deal with it and that we need to look at the way we're developing because we may have the minimum standards but they're not working we have flooding from one end of the county to to the other the enra committee has told us that what we're doing isn't working we have to look even the the chair of the pdrc has said I'm not voting on any more development until we solve flooding issues there is a problem and and we need to address it the enra committee is a great way to address it and um I'm going to bring up in my time uh two issues on flooding that we can deal with so I'll continue to do it and and I get that chair and and I'm not going to be redundant here but um our flooding issues and and the majority of them they've existed since the beginning of time uh we need money for a lot of this stuff we're hold on a second now okay but also too we have to come to the realization and be 100% truthful with the public that compared to the cities when we make blanket statements have we have to change our development patterns what development patterns can we change in unincorporated valua that we have control over that we're not doing right now that's all I'm asking just so we can get and I'm glad you answer that because we've not had the same flooding since the beginning of time we are flooding out entire neighborhoods because of the way that we're developing now where we go in and drain Wetlands bring in thousands of cubic yards of fill and lift up a new neighborhood 5T higher than everybody around it pave it over plant the houses the first rain comes and all of that water is displaced downhill to the neighborhoods around that that never flooded before I just went to Mainland senior high school and met with the school board and all the neighbors around there that when they rebuilt Mainland Senior High School and they lifted the the ground level up they put a storm water uh retention pond with a few feet of fill dirt between this huge pond and a neighborhood and it overflows it goes right through the wall and it floods a neighborhood it has destroyed houses and the school board came and met with them thankfully they did a great job they hired a a um an engineer here and they said we don't take accept any responsibility but we are going to solve this problem for you and so they are spending well over a million dollars to to move um this retention pond so that it has instead of a few feet of wall space where the water just pushes right through the sand it'll have uh 60 80 feet and so that's the kind of thing that needs to be done the school board stepped up and was doing it and I I applaud them for that and I and chairman I'm not disagreeing with some of the stuff that you're saying but what you are saying has to do with State Building requirements and federal FEMA plane uh requirements that's a lot of it's outside of our purview what can this council do we're following the legal guidelines that were given by legal uh by the state and the federal agencies what can we do better together and get through through some of these catchall um statements that are are are are are simply not um 100% that that's all I'm saying we need to drill down on it I didn't hear a specific answer I heard I heard General statements I want to know how we can work better together with actual policy and not um just talk that's all okay well what I just what I just offered to you was not just talk and every member can do that they can go just like I did wasn't I'm countywide so I I went to Mainland senior high school because the neighbor the city and asked the city to rectify that it ain't going to happen so they corrected it themselves that's the kind of proactive work that we need go out look at the flooding issues um find out what's causing it and do something about it on once again shairon I'll put this to bed I'm not disagreeing with you and and and some of the stuff that's within the cities but as a council what can we do for the fourth time I just told you an unincorporate valua that we are primarily responsible for when you say we need to change our development patterns how what can we do to change our development patterns in unincorporated Evolution when we have minimum development and the development that we have approved has either been pre-approved a final plot plan or is something that uh they have the right to do so how can we in unincorporate evolution it's something to think about you don't have to answer it now I know it's tough but how can we do better that's all I just I gave you a whole list of answers Danny and you don't want to listen to any of them I just told you we need to do the the flooding studies that are required and then come up with the storm water control plans the I've brought that up the count we we voted on it we're adding a couple more I think we need to do them all and and the ones the areas that are still flooding like at the uh chairman of the plc's house and that surrounding neighborhood we need to uh to drill down on that and find out what we can do what's happening and a lot of that is affected by the city of Delan we need to stop saying that well we can't do anything about this because it's the city of Delan and go to them and and work with them just like I did with the school board and solve the problem Mr chairman can I chime in on this without time I I think um what what Danny is trying to get to or he's gotten to I should say at least for me um is that that scenario on the school thing and Daytona we don't have jurisdiction we I did it anyway no I'm not saying you can't do it I'll never say that I will never say that what I'm saying is that we don't have jurisdiction from a policym perspective and I think that's where Danny's trying to get to because we're policy makers right we make policy that affects the county and when it comes to development it affects mostly areas and and I know where you were going the the environmental standards that we have in our Charter do give us additional um uh powers and influence over things that occur in the city so I'll acknowledge that and I think we should look at those um but I think um it just if if I I'll speak for myself it uh the impression that comes across um in the public is that this is all Cy fault right and when we have any one of our members of our bodies Our colleagues out here acknowledging that maybe not specifically with those words but in the the the context of how they speak it falls on our shoulders on things that in some many cases don't have anything to do with us and I think that's where Danny was going and I would just say that's how I interpret it and I'm done with that topic thank you okay good um councilman Dempsey Point order no I I um I wish I could tell you what the problem is I almost two years into it I still don't know what the problem with flooding is there is a flooding problem I don't know what the answer is all I can do is swear to you on a stack of Bibles that on Martin Luther King I used to ride all through those woods 30 years ago and they was high and dry never flooding and now you go back through their preh hurricane post hurricane it doesn't matter they're standing water all the time and then you get the lady like last meeting she came in here showed the videos of her house at Daytona Park estate's flooded I know other people there who have problems with flood flooding is a real issue I don't know how to fix it I don't know if the blame is with the county if it's with the city I I do know that um I think well I was told that 30 years ago 34 years ago uh with the County's what 700,000 acres and I was told that cities were made up 100,000 of that now it's doubled now there's 200,000 Acres of Municipal and only 500 of County so the cities are annexing in like crazy and the perception is we can't stop them but Jeff the only reason I'm even talking right now is because you kind of you piqued my curiosity when you said there are stuff we could do to either sanction the cities or control the cities better because if there's anything that we can do to the cities I still see this more of the Cities allowing too much development all MLK was all city of the land they're the ones that did that and created my perception is that they've created that problem through all this subdivision um annexation so can we is there a way staff could give us a briefing on what our options are to do with the cities to how we can uh strong Strongarm these cities to be more responsible in their developments because I I do see the flooding coming up more and more I've got a lot of input from on Jacob's D this project coming up right now I mean there's a lot of people that don't want anything it's going to add to the flooding and I don't know if it is or not I want to see growth I want to see developments I want to see people be able to make a living doing subdivisions and using their property but I I am concerned about the flooding and if there's anything we can do to stop these cities from just annexing in and then all of a sudden you know there's nothing we can do I I just if there's something we can do I'd like to know what that is that's all yes and just to very quickly answer your question um yes we can in fact the next meeting I'm going to put it on the agenda that I've worked for I don't know several months with some people um just residents that are experiencing severe flooding and we've gone through the charter looked at different things I'm going to discuss it with uh Michael more and and bring it to the council at the next meeting so that we can all um discuss it and see what we can do you know honestly I've avoided to I hate the state telling us what we have to do taking our own local control away and i' so I've avoided doing that to our own City saying that we're going to override you this but um we need to discuss it we need to see this is within our legal parameters this is our responsibility so how do we handle that hopefully getting the cities on the same side of the table with us and discussing it with us not forcing them to you'll be glad to know that I am chair thank you okay I'm well he's not had his crack at it yet um that was the first one councilman Robins now go to councilman Santiago okay thank you couple things um one thing was a little bit disturbing to me when I heard some information shared uh today that the I want to make sure I understood it correctly the chairman of our plrc board has made a public statement that he's not going to vote for any development projects can you clarify that Mr chair I think you made the statement yeah I no I I did say that I it's pretty close to a quote that he wasn't going to vote for any more development till we solve our flooding problems I'm not that who sits in the pdrc nobody here um Tak Ronnie Ronnie Mills can can chime in to no no no I don't need them to chime in if that statement was made that's concerning to me because people that come before that board have rights and if the chairman is making a public statement like that um I would I would ask this Council to ask him to re-evaluate that or determine or not whether or not he can continue to serve in that capacity we cannot have people that represent uh us and they have a fiduciary responsibility also to apply the state law and anything they're here I'm not telling him how to vote but if he sent that publicly that's wrong he should not do that um I think it's we'll we'll let him respond but I think it was in our notes from last week I didn't see it Don sees it no I'm just reading the transcript from the pdrc meeting on item six and well I think he said that oh he didn't say that no well no no the transcript may not have it not in this transcript no okay well you know you know what if staff can get us what exactly he said in during that meeting our next meeting and then we'll address it then yeah and I know we've talked about this at different times individually there's a difference between a comprehensive plan and resoning resoning is quasi judicial so but quasi judici also has rights in the process so that that that's the decision has to be based on the evidence and the criteria so having a blanket statement that would be problematic a complant amendment is a legislative decision by this Council and you have the greatest discretion when it comes to a compl um it's not based on criteria so but we can I get and see what was actually said yeah I would check the transcript from the 50 townhouses I'll just let staff tell us tell us you know what what was exactly in what context because and we need to determine from there I I agree policy comp comp plan is policy the other stuff is is is U procedural um thank you Mr chair on that part um you know Mr chair I did uh comment back at you today um after I made my point of order I think I called the question um and we had a little back and forth and I stopped but I think it's important to to discuss it uh in a professional standard uh I think the you you made the comment that talk about fairness I think something along those lines when I called for the question and I was bothered by that because by making that statement and point saying that I'm not being fair in the context of how you said it and I replied that I'm playing I use the word playing by within the rules right we have rules that govern how we do business and I utilize the procedure that's available to any one of us at any time anyone of us can call it and I respect it I could vote with you or not but I didn't appreciate that comment because that's what's heard if I don't respond to it just put yourself out there and seeing it there the chairman is saying what David just did right now is not fair well yes it is it's within the rules that we have all agreed to to operate under so and I think you replied that I've said stuff and I said well then call me out and I appreciate that if I if I procedurally say or do something that's within proper I don't have a problem being called I self- calleded myself out when I was taking the third bite of the apple as we described and I think SE several of us took the third bite in the Apple um and and that's my other comment on here that I think you know we need to go back again and readdress um and refresh everyone uh on um parliamentary procedures and how we're going to operate because we were asking questions debating asking questions debating we're in debate then continue to ask questions it seemed all over the place the reason I think we should have more structure behind that because um I'll speak for myself when when I ask my questions I ask it in a methodology that I think I know I'm going to be shut down at this point um and I prepare myself in in the process for it um but if we're going to be free open then I'll prepare for free and open um or if we're going to have structure let's relook at it um one other question I had Mr chair um Can staff uh the 92 Beach thing can can can can we get some uh I was concerned about you know this business owners I really genuinely feel bad for them if if what they're saying is true can we get some information on that if or if we can relook at it I I'll let George but relook at it to make sure that we're allowing for these businesses to have some type of successful business well we've given them access uh I don't think at any point did we ever say that there'd be a uh the lane would be open um so that part uh I I don't believe ever happened happen but we'll look at the uh kind of uh pedestrian traffic that we can allow in through there uh as we discussed I think at a previous meeting uh if we do if we were to go in an area where we kept part open and not open you're just prolonging how long you're going to be there and I think the goal here is to get this ramp so that uh there would be access through there by February so as we now go into the the end of the you know the kind of the peak or end of the season would have been uh this weekend things start really kind of flowing down from that point he said we're behind on the project is that true one of the one of the speakers uh I don't think we're behind said another year that was not now the other thing that was brought up was about the light and the operation of the light that is now you're into the Department of Transportation project and that's their control and Massie who is a contractor uh that we use and also the Department of Transportation uses they're basically uh as the contractor they're controlling that light so uh we could talk to the department and see uh if there's anything we can do uh and they could talk to Massie it's always unfortunate uh that's why we try to do these things uh as fast as possible because we know that there's going to be a business uh affected in and these urban areas thank you okay um would you like a a quick response to your questions to me it it's I don't want to make a big deal out of it but I think it's it deserves a a question call the question is um I do think it's unfair might be one of the rules but the thing one of the things that I try and do for everybody that sits up here is give each of you an opportunity to speak when you want to speak and when I see people's names on here that are waiting to speak and somebody says has called the question to me what I hear is I don't want to hear from them and I just I think that's I think we should have more respect for one another so that that's I'll respond to your response and and you're right to to you it may feel that way but to me I'm using the rules that we've adopted yeah I know it if you want to change the rules let's propose that right but that's all it is I'm not and and and it's not that I don't want to hear from them if you realize when I called that that question it fell exactly what you said was going to happen 15 minutes prior to that it was 3 to three we were beating a dead horse Mr chair and and since we're talking about I hope that as the chair you can re Us in I don't have a problem with that re Us in professionally right if if if we're going on to long I don't have a problem with for example gentlemen we've been saying the same thing for 20 30 minutes can we just come in and land this ship that's what I would expect of the chair to help us move more forward effectively I do not get offended to that okay and you're right and that's what happened there and that's why I called the question and it felt exactly as you predicted 15 20 minutes before I I I try to treat each of you with respect I would never say you're beating a dead horse to them so which goes to your uh your first question that stay you know maybe we need to uh do another workshop on Robert's Rules of Order I I understand them um well um I often today was one of them them we were having a a a pretty spirited debate we were there was questions I think every one of us asked questions out of turn the questions were over we're in debate we're still asking questions I think it was it was on the inra thing I just give you that leeway because of the respect that I have for this Council and the way I view my job is to allow you every opportunity to speak if you if this board wants me to apply the rule heavy handed I I'll be glad to do that um at your request but um so we'll have questions now we're in debate usually somebody Jake or somebody will call me out you know you're and then I'll say okay we we got to go back to the rules I just try and give everybody an opportunity to uh speak Michael Dyer sure it's council's pleasure we were planning on bringing back the gentleman that um spoke on Robert's Rules uh shortly after your organizational meeting next year if you would like that sooner or different schedule just let just let me know okay all right okay uh councilman Dempsey I wasn't going to say anything but I guess I'm going to follow up and Jeff I think I think the way you handled it today was fine I mean I I like latitude being given to the chair I don't think that you I mean even David with all due respect I me you said this is my third time up I know I'm breaking the rule but here I go I'm going to go ahead and break the rule anyway so I mean well that's fine but you did too so I mean it's just I think we got to give the chair some flexibility you know you cannot I mean just the way that conversation unfolded it it called for more input I think I don't think any of that time was wasted I think all of it was productive your your third comment which was out of bounds actually was productive so I'm glad I got to hear it so I just I think things are fine the way they are I don't I don't really want to see Jeff get chastised for that we disagree on a lot I mean I'm you know here I am the losing voter on a lot of stuff including today but we don't always vote the same but I like the way he does um run the show so I don't think he did anything wrong I I really would encourage discretion to the chair okay okay he can yell at me I don't care all right that's all I I understand what's what was said and and and thank you for that Don anyway uh councilman Johansson thank you sir uh few things um last meeting uh I believe in the uh in the consent agenda we approved an increase in funding for team valua from 250 to $300,000 per year um I I value what team valua does but since I got here in 2015 there's always been a movement to try to get them uh past 50% Public Funding they're at like 53 right now with every um uh everybody kicking in more money um I briefly talked to the chair of of the uh Team valua Economic Development uh Corporation and I briefly talked to George but I I really would like this council's support and moving toward getting them to a number we can all agree to within five years I would like to see 70% uh private 30% public um uh we we already um provide a lot of staff and a lot of Staff work toward economic development and as as do the cities and and here we are in addition right right in a check so I would like to uh uh have us consider and I I can I can make an a motion uh that that we work with Team valua I think uh do we have an elected member George is it you on the executive committee I'm on the ex I'm on the executive but there is a uh we do have it elected right so that that George from the executive committee and who are whoever our elected rep is um work with team to try to get something other than teetering at 50% just so they can come to us and say we're above 50% give us more money um so uh uh I would like that put back on the agenda so team Vala can come and explain the situation to us and and at that point uh we can make that that motion to come up with a percentage somewhere above 53% um and and you'll see uh I I will have a conversation with Suzanne here hopefully in the next few weeks after we can find some time uh we got an email from suzan a couple days ago uh with all the organizations and all the money we give and and how much is matched uh what I what I want to understand is um you know back to Mr demy subsidies things I know a lot of a lot of things are funded by federal and state uh grants and and I'm not saying that's pass through money but people can uh capitalize on that with matching dollars uh I understand a lot of things that nonprofits do uh that we fund are they're almost like subcontractors of ours they're things that we don't want to do as a government but we think are important uh there's culture Arts out there there's plenty of things out there uh SMA does a lot for us um but I want to take a healthy look at that uh to make sure we're given the right amount of money we've talked about this before the right amount of money to the right people for the right reason to do uh back back to those things those those core responsibilities of government um uh I I think a certain bit of of all of it is important um but but what I don't want to do is Spread spread a dollar to five different people who are working on one issue let's I I'll take for instance um um um baby drownings just just because I read about that that's not something I'm I'm concerned about but if there's five different organizations doing it and we can narrow that down to three and concentrate the efforts geographically or whatever takes that I think we owee it to our our uh taxpayers um to do that so I'm I'm hoping to be sitting down with uh Suzanne in the next few weeks to look at that and I'll come up with some um some comments later um we talk a lot about property rights here um in the county and and here in these seats but but we have to realize something with property rights come property responsibilities right um we're always teetering between legal what we can do legally and what's right to do well I got a legal right to do that so I'm going to do that and what's right to do so I want people understand that that what's right to do usually works out for everybody you saw Mr Watts is going back to talk to uh talk to the neighbors I I personally think that ought to be something that that they ought to just do all the time and and normally they do uh I know that happens in the cities a lot um when you when you chat with your neighbors and find out what their concerns on you you realize that they're much more amenable uh to letting you be their neighbors um but individually uh we hear stories about about people that think they have rights but don't don't take care of the responsibilities we are in an insurance problem right now because people with if you have a 22-year- old roof what do you do in June do you put a new roof on no heck no you hope the heck a hurricane comes and your insurance company pays for it when in fact you needed a damn roof before but now you got the insurance company pay we have a responsibility to fix our stuff not a responsibility wait for our insurance company to pay for our 22 uh year roof um uh and and guess what if you can't afford it maybe you're in the wrong house um people wait for hurricanes I I think I think that puts us in the insurance spot we're in people that can't afford uh their property protection and and come to the county for help um or cities for help now now there's certain things that we need to do to protect them from from our own infrastructure but I I think it's important that that property owners um uh pay attention um lastly in addition and we we talked a lot about the enra and Li and putting requirements on people um whether we like it or not we're having a problem with a balance between I'm not going to call it affordable housing as in the program but houses that are affordable and and and where people live so if we want to pile on and make mandatory Li which I'm not saying anybody said but if we're going in that direction and adding regulation with that comes cost so then then we'll have that argument over well my kid can't afford a house so uh by the way um if if you you know we we have somebody that occasionally looks at real or Zillow and says well I see a house here for $300,000 um I I think it's I think it's time that some people consider not living in a two-bedroom house alone picking up a roommate and if you have two people that are making $50,000 a year you can probably afford a $380,000 $350,000 house and there are some of those a lot of those in fuia County right now might not be where you want to live but a last most of you here did anybody live when they moved out of their parents' house where they wanted to live their first year um I lived in an open Bay barracks and then on a ship it wasn't my idea of fun um uh but I'm much happier now so uh some things to think about moving forward um but uh um by large I'm I'm still sticking with the less government U property rights kind of guy thank you sir uh councilman I think I heard at the beginning of that did you want to put make a motion to Puta on the agenda a motion to put team Val's um uh yeah team Val's um our contribution of team volution and where we go from there uh on the agenda and and have a disc discussion with the U good with the folks in team and Matt Reinhardt makes that second any questions discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and and a administrative note that that can happen in January as as we head up the budget discussions okay staff will handle that they're already on it okay um that takes us to uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair uh few few things actually and no nothing no mention of the jail gentleman uh he just did well John actually did it first in all fairness John did it first so um the first thing to expand on uh Mr Johansson uh on your comments and the reason I I'll admit I was the reason for that uh that paperwork coming from Suzanne with respect to the the nonprofits um it was brought up at a town meeting that the county of Valia has separated any ties with nonprofits which couldn't be further from the truth just in the last two years as you all saw in that document and I sent that information to those individuals uh out of the general fund was over $15 million and out of grant funding was 4.3 million that's just in the last two years since this council's been sitting up on this day so that couldn't be more farther from the truth so hopefully the individuals that did not receive that information will get it and hear it um the next thing uh was asked about um The atten Beach Shores with the the ordinance I will bring it up um we are bringing that up for a future meeting so just so those individuals in the shores hear that there was some discussion about the ordinance that uh we've been discussing for some time where I made the motion about the uh at least waiting on that ordinance uh approval until after the Sam replenishment program was taken care of so we are bringing that to a future meeting so hopefully the individuals in the shores do hear that we are working on that um I think Mr Santiago asked the question already I had on here uh as far as an update to the ISB ramp I do know I spoke to a business owner over the weekend that literally uh has moved out and has separated all ties of that area and then we're hearing uh from the two gentlemen that were here to today um and it's true and I tried to talk to that in my updates with individuals in that area that in order to do one lane at a time would have prolong the issue and there is an immense amount of infrastructure to my understanding from Mr Bartlett that would have to be addressed uh I can't believe the the piping and and storm water and all those issues that are associated with that one ramp in itself so it makes sense to do it now unfortunately uh it did negatively impact some of those business business owners but um my qu and then the question was asked I had written down here was that work that was subcontracted and I hear it is that it is subcontracted outw work in other words we're not doing the work all all of our major construction major construction is exactly so that was another question so I'm glad they that was answered thank you um there was another issue brought up about the McDonald Land uh uh young lady said it uh earlier about it coming up on the 13th meeting well the 13th is an R that will be on the forever meeting it's on a Friday if I'm not mistaken is that when the next uh valua forever and meeting is being held and will that item be discussed well today you guys yeah they said something well she brought it the reason I'm ask you guys approv the list the list exactly now it goes into another whole phase of negotiation it could be years when she referred my question is she referred to the 9133 date that will be at a is that an incorrect date yes okay thank you all right I just want to clarify Clarity and the the last item um the 4100 Block of South Atlantic Avenue and I'm glad Mr rutage was here today I did tour that area and I know chairman you did as well um and it there is an O wow factor I mean that that is quite a bit of of uh of land that has disappeared I did in fact receive the letter from Pon Inlet um ask asking for their title Town upon senet support for Coastal armoring I have spoken uh to staff in great detail as far as the what that would require my question to this uh to this day is is whether or not we want to entertain that for a future meeting to discuss it further what can we do and that gives staff the chance to bring so everybody not just the chair and myself are informed but everybody the opportunity to hear uh in detail what what it would require uh in order to do what what is needed or what we can do or what we can't do um I'd like to make that motion uh if to bring it back to a future meeting second by Miss okay we have a motion to bring the 4100 Block back for a future meeting uh motion by Matt Reinhardt second was that councilman Rob yes okay and um yeah since Troy is not here I'll say it for him if it's important to you it it's important to me and and the rest of the the council I think if that's it's your District so yes it is yes it is I think that would be I think that would be um productive I'm not saying what we can do but at least it starts the discussion and we can have that conversation that's right so that's right any uh councilman Johansson I got a quick question for George George George GE is this um is this a oneoff is this the only place we have this issue or or are we opening up uh well not not to say it's not worthy I think we we'll try for this discussion we have proper time we'll put together a map showing everywhere yeah thank you uh no appreciate that yeah yeah I I think it's important that we look at all all the I think it's important that we look at all the places where there's eminent danger or or some type of of some type of issue that somebody's concerned about where A1A is going to go away or or or houses are going to go in again back to property responsibilities but good point thank you okay uh we've got a motion and a second all in favor of bringing that topic back to the council please say I I I and he opposed and that carries six to zero and lastly on that do does this do does this letter need to be scanned as far as because it came to me or was it already done George do you know yeah it already was okay just so everybody has the opportunity that okay and that's all I have thank you thank you yeah that was significant from the from the mayor when they ask for help I'm I'm glad you responded um Famous Last Words I'll be brief I'm going to try and be be brief rather than just put this on the agenda as chair I wanted to bring it up uh to the council to see what your um see what your feelings might be on it I I would like to bring back for discussion um we've done various things to try and increase attendance here we've done nighttime meetings not sure that it's worked um not sure that we're getting a lot of other people at at night especially when we go to to midnight um by 8:00 this room is empty except for um Al and in the news journal and John will sometimes be asleep um I would like us to consider having uh meetings on Don you're going to love this um here on the east side or on the west side and and some also on the uh on the east side either at the uh Ocean Center this is what we'd have to discuss a lifeguard uh headquarters has the ability for that the charter allows us to do that with public notice from time to time so we would have to discuss what does time to time mean is it every other meeting is it once a quarter um and if we were to do it um I'm asking you to consider it and if we were to do it like has become our habit um I would like to put a time a sun sunset clause on it that we try it and if it doesn't work that we stop it because there um um there there's issues that come with it moving people around and um so I'm just asking the council what is what is your what are your thoughts on that I'll come out for I'm not a fan of it okay Don Dempsey now Jake is ahead of me if you wanted to go ahead I'm sorry I'm overlooking Jake all day you kind of called it right Don you're not gonna be happy the county where're the county seat we are like it or not Tallahassee I'm sure we'd want have some of them State committee meetings down in Miami you know to help out but everything is held in Tallahassee everything's held in DC we're the county seat we need to be here out of principle I mean if you want to vote to change Daytona to be the county seat then so be it but as long as we're the county seat all this Annex this and Annex that and you know that's it defeats the whole intent of what I believe was meant to be the county seat all government business should be in the county seat and it needs to stay here because you live here what's that because you live here no it has nothing to do with it it's a county seat if you remember the Branch Jail debate 40 years ago and all these Courthouse annexes we've got I mean there's a reason why they're called Annex and Branch jail and because they're supposed to be in the county seat this is the heart of Luchia County government in to land and it just it it's just uh I've had U constituents on the West Side tell me that you know you go to a board of realtor any type of association meeting they're almost predominately all in the east side and it it gets kind of monotonous as a westsider to know that any type of important meeting in most organizations are they all have to be on the east side which is not right and so yeah I'm an adamant no to anything being transferred to the east side when this is the county seat and this is where where the work's supposed to be done historically thanks okay uh councilman Johansson yes sir um I'm I was going to say the same thing that we built this beautiful building for this very reason it's the county seat I think this is where we need to be and I am an East Side guy and it is a pain in the neck in the morning 3540 minutes to get in with the traffic now the school's back but but it's worth it this is where we this is where we belong um uh but chairman I do concur that things aren't working out and not that I've counted heads like we do at church but I have noted I I don't know I go to church down I'm sorry so so and and I also pay attention who doesn't put money in the in the in the in the pot either so but but the daytime events bring more people the nighttime events especially when they wne in the midnight hours um which we haven't done a lot of but but we've done a few of um it it starts to wear on people to the point where it starts to wear on us you see toward the end of an agenda and and it goes pretty quick and and and usually George teas him up so they can go quick but if if there's an issue that needs to be discussed I'm afraid that after 10:00 we're kind of like ah forget it let's just go home and that's not what we're here for um uh and it might be something you don't realize so Troy's not here he's going to kill me but I would like to make a motion in January to move back to days and keep it here second so the motion is to bring that back to Council in January to to start right going all day all days from 9:00 a.m. to starting in January in the land in in the land and and and the re the reason I said January is because Troy isn't here and if this goes to a yes yes he's going to have to make plans to to get here and and I don't want to I don't want to make him that miserable so and and to some certain extent I'm sorry Don as well okay so the motion by councilman Johansson is to keep the meetings in land um in only in daytime and to bring that back to Council in January so that no to to start day meetings in Jan January not to bring it back so you want to vote well I'll tell you what let's put on the agenda to vote next next well you have a by Char you have an organizational meeting in January anyway so if this motion passes that's Direction enough to Carissa George the proposed meeting scheduled to bring forward will reflect that will reflect that and you approve it at that meeting and that and that organizational meeting just for my clarification that organizational meeting is by Charter has to happen in January right that's right right first Thursday got it thank you question Mr chair on that comment yes David Santiago um want to make sure that I understood what staff said um based on the commentary that's been made that it will reflect that what does that mean the proposed meeting schedule that you approve disapprove or change at that organizational meeting if if this motion passes would reflect if the motion passes all day meeting I I think whatever Direction whatever Direction you give today will be helpful to to George and Chris as they put something together well good I'm glad you add it if the motion passes yes um Mr CH just add my comment to that if that's okay um I'm not my vote is I'm not ready to make that change yet so I'll be voting no on it um I see MO than one value to it I agree the audience participation but I think there's additional value to having that capability and I think staff has done a pretty good job at adapting to the the agendas and the timing of certain things that come before us I know some things are already on a shot clock but I think they've gotten better at managing the um evening meetings with the agenda stuff and uh for other reasons I I would be voting no thank you Mr chair but the the motion is to bring it back so we can fully discuss it now we know how you'll your vote but you could Don could change your mind in January as well Don's been doing a good job changing my mind today not oh um so yes so we we both get what we want in January we'll dis we'll have to discuss location and time and I think that's would be a valuable discussion um and I I hear I think I hear what everybody saying about it Don well I well I didn't know are we voting just to bring it back bring it back on the agenda so Troy can talk and any public input could be yeah it's going be brought back in the in January in January so nothing's going to change nothing's going to be done if the motion passes if my motion passes they'll have daytime meetings on the agenda for discussion if it doesn't pass it'll probably stay day day night day night for discussion I thought I I thought way either way George has George and Chris would bring back a proposed meeting schedule for you to approve or change or disapprove at your organizational meeting right so whether this passes or fails today it's still going to come up in January it is I think the only benefit regardless of how it comes out it gives some direction to what staff helps put together for you well selfishly I'm against it only because I'm kind of like Troy I got a day job and this but you know I'm not it's not about me it's about what's good for the community so I don't know I just think it should be Jake has always said you know we don't want to vote on anything through comment we want it agenda and public notice and give everybody a right to come in and be heard so I just I'm not ready to vote on it so I'm going know as of now but but you're not well we'll see in a minute if you're opposed to bringing it back it's got to come back anyway in January it doesn't matter what vote is coming back uh councilman Johansson yeah so I I just I just want to I do want to beat a dead horse here we go you need a whip we're we got elected to do the job here we didn't get elected to work around everybody's work schedule if you can't if you can't be an elected official during the daytime then then why' you run for office I'm not asking I never that wasn't me that brought this up all right so so that's that's been my rub all the time I we are elected officials and and when we signed up for this we signed up for the 20 boards that the chairman decides to put us on which is an added responsibility we signed up to be available to our public in in a timely manner and and we you know when I signed up I was every other week week on Tuesday for for a meeting during the day uh now we changed it to days and nights um but but I'm I'm just saying that that I think I think that we had we had an obligation and we thought I had a vision of what I thought in El elected office would be based on what I saw in the past and uh uh I just want to make sure that that that we're not starting to change what we do as a council to suit our own best interest that's all we're not here for our own best interest thank you sir wow wow yeah Jake I took this job knowing it was two Tuesdays a month during a day right now I'm should be in court I have coverage okay I'm not asking any the only reason I even mentioned that is to be purely transparent with everybody yes I don't want anybody looking oh he's just doing it for himself no yeah obviously it would benefit me because I don't have to reschedule my my hearings and stuff like that I've got I got a job you know I got to work okay so I didn't bring this up that wasn't my idea that brought this up to change tonight meetings and I even was uh transparent back then that it does selfishly benefit me it does I mean how am I going to say it doesn't it does because I don't have to reschedule stuff I don't have to rej juggle hearings and stuff like that so that's why I even said it but I'm not asking this for selfish reasons I'm asking it because like just David said you know you're the one that always says we shouldn't vote on stuff bring it up at the last minute everything should be agenda I remember that coming up we're not we're not voting to change anything right now we're we're voting to see how it looks on the uh on the uh organizational meeting in January well it's coming up whether we vote Yes or No today or not absolutely right so what what's this all about then vote call a question yes all in favor of bringing this up in the January organizational meeting to discuss times of the meetings and location uh the motion is to stay in the land and to uh and to only have daytime meetings correct correct okay but we're going to discuss it and I have no idea how that vote will go right right now um so that's the motion um Mr chair can you clarify who seconded I was just going to ask was there a second on that motion Danny Danny Robbins councilman Robbins makes the second all in favor of bringing it back so that we can talk about it again say I I not the motion pardon me I don't believe that was the motion okay the motion is the motion is to have have the meetings in the land during the the daytime to be placed on the agenda on January's organizational meeting there it is uh Christy you better call the role because I only heard two eyes coming up I just make sure you understand the what exactly the motion on the table is to bring back in the January organizational meeting is it the 14th would be the first meet Thursday the first Thursday um to discuss uh having this is a motion to discuss only having daytime meetings and only in Dand doesn't say you're not voting to just have daytime meetings in danan we're voting to discuss it in January I guess my question is what's the significance of a yes or a no vote it's coming up virtually nothing call the question okay it just brings it back um Chrissa Mr Robbins Mr Santiago no Mr Dempsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Brower yes so I think it comes back to uh to talk about again all right I had two other quick things is Ben in the Ben is in the room uh Michael Dyer your name is up here is that yes this time wasn't an accident okay uh I won't belabor it now uh you referencing it a little bit Mr chair but sometime before the organizational meeting I'll make sure you have the language from the charter the speak says to meetings and locations okay thank you all right um to this this is concerning flooding that I I think we can do something about um the first one uh Ben is 123 Tree Line Drive in um Timber Creek it's been an ongoing issue for a couple years with a property owner that put in driveways didn't install or removed covers and filled in the ditch so now all the water runs across the street to neighboring properties where where does that stand uh the last um I recall was there was a neighbor uh or a property owner that filled in a second driveway without a permit and I believe we made them go back and pull a permit and build it according to our standards with a covert pipe off the top of my head I don't know but I can look into it and get you that information and see where they're at with that that was the determination you just don't know if it was done yet or not correct I don't know where we are with the permit on that would you yeah I can check on that and and get you the information cuz that would I think I think that would solve the problem at least temporarily correct all right thank you very much they stay here oh cuz the other one is it may be a little bit more um complicated it's on U Red Robin Drive are you familiar with that one the private road issue the private road and we have we can't go in and do anything but a homeowner covered a covert with a metal plate put um uh dirt on it it goes to Jake's statement about should I do a thing can I do a thing what the result of that is is that it's backing up the water to four other homes on this CT and flooding them is it legal for that to happen that they can just close up a covert on a private road does the neighborhood have to vote on it or anybody know turn back I'm gonna look to my friend clay here on this one um we I am familiar with it other than to say it's from a public work standpoint Private Road no public rideway um and I believe there's an HOA involved or defunct HOA I'll let clay handle he's more in the t uh our staff met with the property owner identified the concern um they were identified to do some excavation to free open the area they're going to be doing as best they can but there is underground Utilities in those in that area that would prohibit going down down overly deep um we did uh go out there and identify also there was a larger issue in that the uh actual ditch that would drain the entire area is overgrown That Feeds out to tamoka Farms Road so what you have is a private development with all of this in place and inadequate um Authority via an HOA or anything else and complete lack of Maintenance of the main drain facility to tamoka Farms Road so we're working to try and get the one property owner to do the best they can given the physical constraints from the power that's underground um and also just letting everybody know out there that if they went out and cleared out and clean the ditch that fed to tamoka Farms Road that would probably solve a majority of the issues yeah and I agree um just to I want to make sure I understand this and and nail it down I can and I'm meeting with the neighborhood with couple of residents I'll transfer that what you just said everybody check your ditches he can't do it you have to do it yourselves but covering up the covert it's not I I don't understand how that would and again this is not us but if the excuse is from him from that homeowner that I'll disturb utilities the covert's already there he just put a metal plate over it and covered it with dirt he can remove that without destroying utilities right we were just looking to see what could be done as far as excavation around to help him prove it I went out and talked to him and I I want to know you know yes or no was this the truth he said that he met here with um some legal staff I don't know who and the legal staff said he didn't have to do a damn thing that that's his quote um we did have a meeting with code enforcement and our represent our attorney who represents staff in Code Enforcement I wouldn't say that we didn't say that you have to do damn thing uh we just may have indicated that we have relatively limited options from a county perspective but it's still a situation that even if the county cannot force compliance he still has a a potential issue with a civil lawsuit and and a lot of these flooding issues they come down civil situations where for example a vacant lot is there we've lost we've lost Quorum I'm not asking for a vote I mean we're supposed to be in session when there's a quorum okay so um while we're waiting on the clay this is what this I think hearing all that this is what I need to know since it's a private HOA private ditch um he is that area that ditch is it common area could one of the other three homeowners go out and remove the plate in the dirt and let the water flow so their houses aren't flooded I can't trust my memory on this but if I remember correctly we did not find any uh specific easements or otherwise that would allow for uh an HOA to go in there and do the the maintenance or Improvement there so we I'll have to go back and verify the facts but I don't believe that there was an easement typically in the private road Private storm water you have an easement either on the Subdivision plat or by a separate instrument that would Grant who has the right to come in and do the maintenance and in this situation we did not find that I mean what I I wasn't in this meeting but from what I'm hearing about it because this comes up from time to time is a lot there some issues that the county does not have jurisdiction over does not have a role over it is a private dispute between neighbors and from what I'm hearing about this one sounds like that's the case or very close to it so um and some folks don't want to hear that they want the county to get involved I appreciate that I understand but you know there it may be something they have to bring against the person that's causing them harm and w not a party to it so they have to bring it to court it could be yeah cuz what what they're hoping I mean I can't give them legal advice but yeah what what they were hoping is that this is land that benefits the whole development it's a common Swale can we just go out and and clear the dog on thing without getting arrested so we we can't even give them that advice because that is interpreting their property rights and providing them legal advice um without something very clear like a plat or an easement or something that actually designates who the maintenance entity is and what the actual rights are um it's you know that would have to be resolved by a judge or resolved by mutual agreement about who can come in and clear that area that's you know that's not something we can even kind of opine on on whether or not the neighborhood has a hole has the right to clean the sale in front of your house these lot these Lots were created under our old exemptions so these are the 2 and a half acre lot minimums that we didn't require roads storm water or any other identification in regards to how to address the infrastructure so this is a situation where again the road was put in there's no clarity as his a maintenance there's no uh real true storm water other than a a drainage ditch That Feeds out to there so we're not even aware of any easements on that ditch to be honest okay thank you for the discussion I think what what I'm hearing is the homeowner is going to have to take it to court it's a shame that the action of one homeowner it's exactly what Jake said earlier he's flooding out the rest of the neighborhood and he doesn't care he's given him the finger I'm surprised one of the neighbors didn't go out and just remove what he did um pardon me finger or his finger yeah so okay I'm not going to beat a dead horse yes quick comment Jake um because across the street I had this issue with a uh with a constituent Ben um this Red Robin area will they run into outstanding Waterway D if they clear it out are they gonna are they going to get in trouble um from St John's um and and should we at least tell them look before you do anything I I have been um genuinely surprised at some of the things that uh DP will claim as uh jurisdictional Waters that's why I asked um uh especially of late but uh I would always recommend that they uh in a private property situation if they're unsure to consult uh permitting agencies to make sure they're not German if if you're delivering that message you might want to get yep I had the constituent that uh that ran into a little bit of a problem trying to do the right thing sounds like you had that come before and Port Orange before no that was a an actual BL County citizen that had a ditch in their all right thank you very much I think the message was just delivered um and so we will adjourn at 1 128 until precisely at 6: p.m. for the uh budget meeting and thank you very much