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Welcome to the Valuchia County. The meeting will begin. [Music] >> Test one, two. Test one, two. [Music]
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We will call the uh November 4th, 2025 Valuchia County Council meeting to order at 9:01. giving a little extra time for the for the uh crowd to find seats and they're still coming in which is always good to
see. Um so let me take just a minute to tell you how we'll get started as the last few people are coming in. In just a moment I will ask you to stand if you care to stand for the invocation. If you are a member of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocations
that we have before every county council meeting, please just send an email to Cararissa Green KValia.org. This is Cararissa down here and she will get you all set up to do it. Um
uh and then right after the invocation uh just if you would remain standing, we'll have the uh pledge of allegiance. This morning's invocation is from uh uh a personal friend and a really good uh
preacher from Deltona Grace Life Church, Pastor Tommy Clayton. Would you join me in a word of prayer? Heavenly Father, thank you for this day. Thank you for this great county. Thank you for the gift that government is when
it functions the right way. You have called government uh servants of God. And I know the men and women who are here and leading us today are when they view themselves rightly. They see themselves as as servants, Lord. Servant leaders. and they're going to hear many cases that have layers of complexity and
complication and the people that will be presenting um Lord are are perhaps struggling and and aggravated. So I pray there would be peace today. You would give uh these leaders here as as Solomon prayed an understanding and a listening heart and help the people who are
bringing issues that they want resolved. Lord give them the ability to articulate them without bringing too much of their emotions in. And I pray that justice would prevail and and honesty would prevail, Lord, and that you would continue to bless uh this county and
bless the women and the men uh who are in leadership positions, Lord. And and uh pray all these things in the name of Christ. Amen. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Good to see you. >> I got to tell you that pledge of allegiance with this full house, especially a full house full of uh predominantly veterans,
was um was chilling. It was it was good to hear your collective voices together. Chrissa, would you call the role, please? >> Mr. Johansson >> here. >> Mr. Kent >> here. >> Mr. Reinhardt >> here. >> Mr. Robins >> here.
>> Mr. Santiago. >> Mr. Dempsey. >> Mr. Brower >> here. We do have a full house and a quorum. Um, we will start with uh public participation as we always do. when I call your name, please come to the
podium. Um the podium there is a uh button on the left side so that it will go up and down. Um if you need that, make sure that there's a microphone near your mouth so that everybody listening online um can hear you. You will have
three minutes to speak on any uh any county business, something that we may be able to uh deal with in the future. And lastly, I would just you can tell us what part of the county you're from. You don't have to give your full um legal
address for safety reasons. Um I would just ask you to be respectful of the many people in the room. We're a diverse crowd, a diverse county. If you'd be respectful in your in your language, um you can say anything you want to any of us up here. Please be respectful to each
other and to the the younger members that might be listening online. Um, so first, nobody ever wants to be first, but first today we have Adam Maker and Adam will be followed by Ann Marie
Wilicker. Adam Meer, Deberry, Florida. I am providing public notice pursuant to title 28 USC 1746 regarding violations of title 18 USC 241 and 242. The Valuchia Sheriff's Office is at the center of a widespread criminal
conspiracy involving contractors, clerks, investigators, attorneys, and judges. Evidence of financial crimes and coordinated misconduct is available for public viewing at valucatruth.com. Let me be very clear. When government officials knowingly violate the Constitution, it's not a mistake, it's a crime. If the sheriff's office engages
in unconstitutional conduct in exchange for or to maintain federal funding approved or sustained by this council and if members of this council knowingly permit, enable or conceal such conduct, then each such member may be in violation of multiple state and federal statutes. Furthermore, Florida Florida's
article 2 section 8 declares that that a public office is a public trust, one that must be safeguarded against corruption and abuse, not repeatedly funded without accountability. This provision known as the sunshine amendment requires the establishment of a comprehensive code of ethics to
prevent conflicts between public duties and private interest. It further directs the legislature to create and enforce ethical standards for state employees and non-judicial officers, ensuring integrity and transparity and public service. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land. No state, no country, no court,
commission or council has the authority to create or enforce policies that contradict the Constitution or deprive citizens of their fundamentally protected rights. By continuing to allocate public funds to a department known to be involved in financial misconduct and cover-ups, this council
risk violating its oath of office by engaging in conduct that may constitute both state and federal offenses. This council's failure to properly report or address these violations violations exposes each member to potential liability for official misconduct, mis misuse of public funds, obstruction of
justice, and the concealment of criminal activity. Under both Florida and federal law, the penalties for these acts are severe. Let me remind this council, an oath o an oath of office is not a formality. Is it a it is a binding legal duty. When public officials knowingly ignore, conceal, or continue to fund
corruption, they cross the line from governance into criminality. The law does not excuse silence. It punishes it. In accordance with Title 28 USC 1746, I am providing formal notice of criminal conspiracy. This service is accompanied with a notice of all violations, a response memorandum, and a completed
transmitt letter so you can properly report back to me and so you can properly report all criminal conduct to the FBI and the United States uh attorney for the Middle District. Gentlemen, my life has been destroyed because of corruption in this county, financial crimes, um people like Heather
Bendle, Christina Pilott out here in the audience, um Terau where our constitutional rights have been undermined repeatedly and it's just unfair. We just want justice. We want what's fair and balanced and we want these crimes that the sheriff's office is involved in reported to the proper
agency. So, I'm going to provide service. I do that with the clerk, right? >> Yes, please. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Ann Marie. Willer and you will be followed by Ellen Wintermouth. And I'm just going to tell you while Ann Marie's coming down, we
have uh till 10:05 for public comment. The rest will have to be held um uh according to our rules to the closing comments. So, if you can say what you have to say in less than three minutes, um do that. So, we got a lot of people that want to speak this morning.
Anmarie. >> Good morning. My name is Anmarie Wilker. I live here in Dand. I'm the president of Valuchia Pride. I'm here this morning to speak about the arts. The arts are not a luxury. They are a smart investment in the future of our community. Artsf funed organizations
serve thousands of across every age, every zip code, and every background. These are the same organizations that bring people together, support our tourism economy, invigorate downtowns, and provide educational opportunities that our kids otherwise would not have.
The amount of the county budget allocated to arts funding is a tiny fraction of total county expenditures. Yet, the return on investment is significant. According to the 2024 Valuchia economic impact report, visitor visitors generated 5.5 billion in total
economic impact, supported nearly 40,000 local jobs, and contributed more than 1 billion in payroll to our community. Tourism spending accounts for 31% of all local sales tax revenue, much of which comes from visitors shopping and dining
at locallyowned businesses. Every dollar invested in the arts is a key component of investment in the tourism industry. The arts give people a reason to stay longer, explore more, and spend more locally. They enhance the visitor
experience, and strengthen what makes Valuchia unique. Over the past few years, we've seen efforts to res reduce funding for arts and cultural grants. And this year, one of the justifications used related to drag performances. It's important to point out that drag
performances have taken place at art and cultural organizations for years and have never been an issue for the grant committee or previous councils until now. If it was truly drag that caused the objection, then the fact that the Athens Theater and the Shoing Theater
have withdrawn their applications should resolve that concern. There is no reason not to move forward and fund the arts and cultural grants as promised. The message that we've returned to a time when it is acceptable to single out and demonize constituents who don't look
or live like you is deeply troubling. As elected officials, you represent all of Lucia County, including the people who benefit from the arts, who depend on inclusive cultural spaces, and who contribute to the vibrancy of our region, not just those who benefit from unchecked development.
Your responsibility is to every citizen of this county. The artists, the theatergoers, the children who experience arts for the first time, the older adult adults who find connection through local galleries, and the businesses that thrive because our community is culturally alive. The arts
are not nice to have, they are essential. They are a strategic part of our economy, our education, and our civic life. The budget line is small and the impact is enormous. I urge you to stand by the promise of the arts and cultural grants, to honor
the organizations who built their programming on that promise and to reject any notion that inclusion, equity, and creativity are political liabilities. They are the heartbeat of Valuchia County. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Ellen Wintermouth,
followed by Angela Parra and you will be followed by Greg Wait. >> Good morning, Ellen Wintermouth. Um, I live in Orange City right now. Funding for the nonprofit art community is important because it empowers
unrepresented voices, fuels economic growth, provides social and educational benefits, fosters community identity, and supports the health and well-being of individuals and communities. But you know this
nonprofit art organizations often give a platform to marginalized groups and unrepresented voices providing a sp in support in supporting smaller nonprofits. We can only offer them recognition on a 25- ft screen prior to
a film not their name on a building. This is why for us and many other small nonprofits the grant funding is crucial. Funding the nonprofit art community, therefore, is not just about supporting artists. It's an investment in the
vibrancy, health, and prosperity of the entire community. I'm tired of coming before you men. All right? You need to do the right thing and honor what you already had budgeted, approved, and then slashed at the last
moment after we've spent hours and a lot of time preparing what you asked for. Thank you for your time. >> Angela Par. My name is Angelo Perah and I live in Victoria Park in Dand. I'm a playwright
uh with productions around the country and in Canada. So the Athens Theater, the Little Theater of New Smyrna Beach, and the Shoestring Theater of Lake Helen are important to me. I'm a college instructor with of performing arts, and I'm also the author of Playwriting for
Dummies. Google it. Uh I study at the artist's workshop. I study painting at the Artists Workshop in New Smyrna Beach. And I'm a member of the Museum of Art in the land. In other words, this is all personal to me. Unfortunately, I
think many folks have the idea that the arts are a bunch of folks sitting around all day brushing paint on canvas or molding clay. But the arts are a lot more than that. I think you know that. And the arts are all around us. The movies we watch, the music we listen to,
the books we read are all created by cinema, music, and literary artists. The sculptures and murals that grace our public spaces are all the work of visual artists, many of them local. The efforts of scores of arts organizations make
Alicia a better place to live. French writer Voltater said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I thought our council would have said something like, "I vehemently disapprove of such and such show, but I defend your right
to say it. Say have your say through the arts." As the rug is being pulled out from under our arts organizations, I thought some councilmen would say, "Hold your horses." Studies prove that the arts bring out folks to community events to
sustain our local businesses, as was so eloquently explained. From gas stations to restaurants to shops. I moved to Valuchia because of the exciting arts scenes in Narna, Daytona, the land of
course. And when the funding of the arts was suggested, I would have thought the council might have said, "Uh-uh, no way. You take your biases and restrictive ideas elsewhere. Valuchia doesn't muzzle its arts and culture." In other words, when the relatively
small but immensely valuable amount of funding was cut off, what are we saying? that Valuchia doesn't care enough to nurture its singing, dancing, musicianship, painting talents of our children, our neighbors, your constituents.
As a newbie painter, as I mentioned, I'd like to show you one of my works, not necessarily my best stuff. I'd like you all to take this in. All right. Finally, with apologies to Michael Kolio, and I say to you, this isn't
politics. This is personal. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Greg Wait, followed by Monica Emerson, followed by David Hill. Good morning. I am Greg White from Deltona, Florida.
I'm 75 years old and 65 uh years of those have been an individual. I've been an evangelical Christian 35 years of those at that those years I've uh served in Christian foreign service. So I come before you respectively to
oppose the renaming of the roadway North Beach Street from Grenite Grenada Boulevard to Flaggler County Line as Charlie Kirk Memorial Highway. Renaming a public highway is more than a symbolic gesture. It is a public
endorsement, a way of saying this person represents our community, community's ideals, and deserves lasting recognition. But in this case, we must ask, does Charlie Kirk's legacy truly warrant such an honor? Although he was
influent influential in his p public persona and work were highly divisive. According to sources, Kirk founded the Turning Point USA at age 18 and became a prominent conservative activist. He built a national platform around campus
confrontations, provocative rhetoric, and polarizing political positions. By choosing to honor him in this permanent way, we risk turning our public infrastructure into a political symbol that many in our community may not feel
represented by. Public highways serve everyone. The naming of these roads of those roads should reflect a community shared values and something broadly unifying, not something that potentially alienates
large seg segments of residents. Kirk's legacy includes statements and actions that critics say targeted academic freedom, championed cultural war conflict, and opposed diversity and equity initiatives. for those who uh who
were on the receiving end of those positions rather students, faculty, immigrants, LGBTQ plus people or other minorities, naming a highway after him may feel less recognition and
more exclusion. If you want if we want our public spaces to build community rather than deepen division, then we must choose names that uplift broad values like service, civic union, unity, and compassion.
Such a naming decision sets president. Once the door is open to honoring partisan figures in in our infrastructure, it becomes harder to maintain standards. What criteria we use next? Is it those with highly high visibility only those
aligned with particular politics? I believe that naming a highway should be reserved for individuals whose contra contributions are widely recognized and whose lives work transcends partisan divise. In this case, given the controversy around Kirk's positions and
approach, that threshold is not clearly met. >> Thank you for your comments. Monica Emerson, followed by David Hill, followed by Janice or Jamie Stewart.
Hello, Monica Emerson with Miller Road. Um, good morning. I'm here today to voice my concerns regarding the Tmont storm water drainage application. This application seeks approval to discharge storm water into Miller Lake. Um but my
concern is that the ongoing issues at Miller Lake have not been resolved, nor has a clear resolution been presented. I do not support allowing storm water from a commercial property across Highway 1792 to be directed onto my private
property. Before any new drainage permits are approved, we need to take an honest look at the existing problems and understand their impact. We were lucky this year during hurricane season. The storms could have been much worse. But we can't rely on luck to protect our homes, our properties, and our
community. The next storm might not spare us. That's why it's so important to fully analyze these issues and address them before granting any additional storm water approvals. I urge the board to pause, take a closer look, and make sure we're doing this the
right way. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments, David Hill. And you will be followed by Jamie Stewart, who will be followed by Shyra Aorta. My name is David Hill and I'm here about the flooding of Miller Lake. We've been
asking for a year for the county to revoke a permit that Royal Oaks Professional Center received in 2017. Royal Oaks Professional Center has now applied for another permit. The permit says Royal Oaks Professional Center wants to modify the connection to their
Tmont Drive storm structure to minimize offsite runoff entering their site system. They also want to build a retention pond in an already saturated area and their parking lot. The modification of their Tmont Drive storm
structure will divert all water from Tmont Drive that has been entering the Royal Oaks Professional C Center's Xfiltration system for years and send it all to Miller Lake. Royal Oaks Professional Center has decided it does
not want any off-site water entering their property. Tmont Drive is a private road that is uh Royal Oaks Professional C Center's only road for access. This road is not part of the Miller Lake community. Why should the people of
Miller Lake be forced to take someone else's water? Benjamin Bartlett has said that the county will not object to the permit. The county is saying it is okay to plug a drain that has existed for years and divert that water away from one person's property and send it to
another's person's property. Let me say it again. The county thinks it's okay to plug a drain that has existed for years and divert that water away from one person's property and send it to another person's property. Miller
Lake can't take any more water. We are asking the county council to tell can county staff to oppose this permit immediately. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your comments. Uh Jamie Stewart,
you will be followed by Shyra Accord who will be followed by Douglas Frederick. >> Yes, my name is Jamie Stewart and I live in Valia County. I would like to address the issue of the defunding of arts and culture. I want to start by saying the
quiet part out loud. It's not about the money. $600,000 is only a fraction of the county's annual budget. It's about the moral objections of Councilman Robbins who pulled it from the consent agenda. Now, this council has chosen to
strip its backing of multiple multiple art and cultural events and venues over what I perceive by them, but what is perceived by them as immoral. I dare to say that the morals represented in this room differ greatly.
It is not up to the council to punish those who may have a difference of opinion. This county needs art and culture to make it a vibrant place to live and visit. I moved here when I was 11 years old and I just turned 77.
Therefore, I have spent 66 years in Valuchia County. For most of those years, this county has relied on autoracing and motorcycle events for entertainment and tourism. I have finally seen the art and culture possibilities emerge. Art classes for
children, adult seniors can be found at various locations. Art walks on the streets of most of our cities bring locals and tourists into businesses. Life theater has given local artists and musicians a place to
to highlight their skills. Nonprofit movie theaters that provide a breath of fresh air in the big screen movies are available. It is now the county's time to restore these funds and promote art and culture growth. Let this adults in
this community make their own decisions as to what they see and hear. If you find yourself in the crosshairs of your constituents, your response should be then don't buy the ticket for those events. Thank you,
Mr. Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Shyra Aorta. followed by Douglas Frederick, followed by Mary C. uh Tapen. >> Hello, I'm Shira Acasta. My apologies to
the clerk. My handwriting is not the best. Um I'm a resident of Dand. Uh this is my first time in these chambers. Uh I'm here representing my family. Uh none of whom could be here today. Um, I consider myself lucky to live here and to raise
my family here. I'm here today to advocate for the restoration of the arts and culture funding. It funds activities and opportunities for my family to enjoy together. As Ann Marie and several other people have said earlier, funding the arts and culture is not a luxury. It's a
quality of life issue and the ROI is high. Again, as they said, I want my tax dollars to go towards the items which this already approved. 04% of the budget has already uh said it would provide.
This includes free programs for seniors, veterans and children, scholarships, and reduced fees for local arts camps, special exhibits, historical speakers, and chances for all of Valuchia's citizens to participate in all kinds of
cultural opportunities. this comparatively small amount of money goes a long way towards the hardworking nonprofits that it goes towards. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Uh Douglas Frederick, I keep
wanting to say Frederick Douglas. Come on down. Uh and then uh followed by Katie Tappen, followed by Katherine Levenson. To be clear, sir, people have called me Frederick Douglas since birth.
>> My name is Douglas Frederick and I'm a resident of Edgewater, Florida. With respect and sadness, I come before you today there to present concerns about flooding flood risk. That's a clear and plain view. I started my documentation in 222
of 25 related to a development that was submitted on 8224 with no public disclosure. I have presented documents to the state of Florida Valuchia County and city ed of Edgewater 59 page document submission of evidence
with over a thousand pages of document collection of evidence. I submitted statements on 51925 to city of Edgewater, 8425 to city of Edgewater, 102925 to state legislature, and I testify in
your presence today for the first time. I submitted a cease and desist to Governor DeSantis, a cease and desist request this morning to city of Edgewater. I respectfully request a cease and desist county. Please, I pray
to God, protect every resident in Florida, every community in Florida from flood risk that is clear and in plain view with documentation that I have submitted with clear risk that it's in plain view. I want no harm to the developer of this property. I want no
harm to any government official, but most important to me is no harm to residents and communities within the state of Florida. A complete investigation will determine I maintain that the submission I submitted for legislation request which this
professional person that represents you people is beyond I mean she very professional. My legislation request will protect every community every resident in Florida equally and by my my legislation request is equal protection
via equal prevention. And I'm going to conclude with this one statement. I respectfully request that Valuchia County come together and just simply protect every resident in Florida and be the limelight to this state by showing
that we all care about each other. Please re please submit the cease and desist, not to hurt or harm anybody, but simply protect everybody. A complete investigation I will present anytime you tell me to that shows evidence in plain view. May God bless us and guide us. And
I tell you, the presence of veterans today has made my day. Thank God. >> Thank you for your comments. Katie, followed by Katherine Levenson, followed by Fred Peace.
>> Good morning. >> My name is Mary Katie Tapton, and I hail from the world's most famous beach, Daytona Beach. Um, I want to start by thanking Matt Reinhardt for supporting the arts. It's truly appreciated. I'm proud to have you my as my rep. We don't always agree on everything, but on that
we can find a common ground. Um, when I graduated from University of Tennessee, go Valls, many, many years ago. um with my degree in Bachelor of Fine Arts, with a master's in science for education with the goal of becoming an art teacher, all
we heard about many, many years ago was how Florida was a fantastic place to work in the arts, whether you were teaching or an artist yourself, because Florida supported the arts and it was job security. None of us want to be starving artists. Um I fear that is
starting to change. I moved down here. I taught art for many years, still do with Florida Virtual. Um, currently working at Embry Riddle now, and the arts have been life-changing down here, and it's something we cannot afford to lose. Um, I'm asking that the council please
consider reinstating the funding. It was already applied for. It was already earmarked. It was already granted. It was already awarded. We were waiting for those checks to come in. A lot of negative things are going to fall out because of this. um please find it in your hearts to reinstate that funding.
We can readress it next year. Um and I so appreciate your time. Thank you very much. >> Thank you for your comments, Katherine Levenson, followed by uh Fred Peace, followed by Susie Peace. >> Good morning everybody. Good morning. I
haven't been here in about a month, so I missed you guys. Well, you know, um, meanwhile, I'm calling I'm coming in here because we were lucky this year. We were lucky at our place. Not everybody's place, but we were lucky in our place
for me and my fellow uh, residents that live in Orange, this Orange City part by Miller Lake. We didn't get bombarded with a hurricane like we did last year. We did get one storm that was really bad about two weeks ago where we had 5 ines
of rain around, but our lake really didn't go up till 3 days later when it went up 5 in. So, I guess what I'm doing is I'm here to tell you, please, Mr. Reckenwald, please don't let Ben Bartlett approve of that new, you know, um, thing where they
want to let, you know, the them Oh my gosh, what's the place? Royal Oaks. Let them drain into us again. Please don't let that happen. We've been coming for a year every two weeks and we're begging you to stop some flooding that you can because I know you can't stop it all around the county. I know that. But in
ours, you can. It's clear. It's easy to do. Just stop it. It you guys are flooding us from Orange City. We don't even belong in that area. We are county and we're getting their water. Please don't let that happen. That's what we're here today to tell you. Um, I mean, I know Ben has already said he's going to
do it and we have that in an email in writing and that's not fair. We We are private citizens and we're getting flooded and please please just stop that. And I want you guys to be aware that that is what happened. Ben has already said in an email that he's going to do it. Um, that's not fair. So,
that's what we're here today to do. Please don't let us get flooded more. We already got that last year. We're done with it hopefully. I mean, I don't know what the future brings, of course, because all of us will be flooded in the future again, probably. Um, anyway, that's it. Have a great day. >> Thank you for your comments. Fred Peace,
followed by Susie Peace. Do you know her? >> Fred Peace, Dan, Florida. My wife made me do this. I'm here to support the arts. I graduated from the University of South
Carolina and my first really big job was uh from the South Carolina Arts Commission and a National Endowment for the Arts to be an artist and residents in a rural community in South Carolina. And on my first week of being on that
position, the principal of the school I was working with took me to a city council. It wasn't a fancy DS. It's like you're behind. It was a coffee table. And one of the council people looked me in the eye and said, "You mean my taxes
pay for you being here?" I was dumbfounded. I didn't know what to say. I've lived in a lot of hardship to make arts work for me, but I succeeded. I succeeded through a successful career in
landscape architecture which opened to me when I was in California and in in this state of design hundreds of millions of dollars of pro of infrastructure, fountains, plazas, name it. I'm not here to brag about any of
that. I'm say that the arts gave me a lot. And this month, my wife and I will write two checks to Will Roberts that will total over 10,000. And I would like to think that even a penny of that would go to support the arts. I would like to
think that I was giving back to the opportunities that was given to me. Wake up. The arts were always supported by patronage throughout history. We just came back from a trip where we
go to the uh Museum of Modern Art and to um the Met and into museums of Montreal and you're looking at the worldass art and they were always supported by patrons. Always supported needed. Wake
up. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Uh Susie piece followed by uh Marina Morgan Carver. >> Hello council. Um I'm here to ask you I'm sorry Susie Peace Dand here to ask
you to vote now to restore arts and culture. Come on. This is a this is ridiculous that this has happened again. Uh, have you not been to the Brown and Brown Museum? Have you not been to plays in Daytona or at the Athens? Have your
kids and grandkids not attended Beauty and the Beast or Cinderella at the Athens Theater? And next spring, the C the Athens will be presenting Alice in Wonderland and they're already asking for auditions from kids. Um, there's a
new art show at Stson University of the Hat at the Hand Museum of STSON's Hats. There's a lot going on in the arts and we need them to complete us as people to take them away from our county is
terrible. Uh, what would Bill Dreger say? Bill Dreger, our champion of history, culture, and arts. He uh helped get a a series of murals in downtown Dand that
tell the history of our town. Uh what if Samford or Mount Dora had canled the funding for the arts? Arts need special funding. They can't make it on their own. As Fred said, uh they
don't always have donors. We're bel we belong to Cinematic and we know that um we don't go over there frequently but if we want to we can go over and see a a arts movie. Um all right let me make this and I want
to thank uh Councilman Reinhardt for being a champion and I consider those of you that did not vote for this U Santiago thank you for bringing it back and Mr. Johansson. Uh, I think you're chumps
actually. And I brought an artwork in here to um make my final point. If you can see this. Um, this is a painting by George Bellows called Furpy versus Dempsey. And it
>> nobody can hear you if you >> and this this uh painting portrays a great fight between champion Jack Dempsey and Luis Furo September 14th, 1923.
And the picture shows actually that Dempsey got knocked out of the ring. And I thought that was kind of prophetic. However, however, um he did uh climb back in through the
ropes and he did win the bout. So, I'm asking you to be a champ, not a chump. >> Thank you very much for your comments. You are an artist. Marina Morgan Carver. Am I saying your first name correctly?
>> You are, sir. Thank you. Thank you for your time, all of you. It's not an easy time to be a public uh official elected nowadays. And I have good news for you. Um there is still time to walk this back. There's still time to fix what you've done. Um you've heard our constituents and there's just a few.
There's just a few of us here today, but we each represent so much more more about Valuchia County. Um and wherever we've come from, we bring um the different mediums that we've worked in. uh if we're not from here, which is the case for me. I moved to Valuchia County specifically for the arts. Sir, you were
on my ballot last year. Um so I am in your district and I represent others in your district who feel the same way. Um please walk back your mistake before it's too late. I think the letter from all of the previous um public servants in this area signed together speaks
volumes. I'd like to bring attention to that as well as things that Emory and others have said this morning. Thank you so much. Thank you for your comments. Uh Gretle Abad Astrouski, you're going to have to fix your name
when you get up here. Julia Truillo and then Tracy Grubs. >> Good morning, Gretle Abadesty. I live in Daytona Beach, which is a city in a county that is known for its beaches, the international speedway, golf,
tennis, motorcycles, and if you ask my sister who lives in Port Orange, the pickle ball capital of the world. Anyway, I am here today as others have spoken before me to ask you to restore the funding that was already allocated
and approved for arts and culture funding in Valuchia County. It is what Valuchia County residents want. It is what we deserve and it is where we believe our tax dollars should go and it is a fraction of the of the budget for
Valuchia County. I won't try to reiterate what has already been spoken and so eloquently stated by previous 10 or 11 speakers who have spoken about arts and culture funding. I want to give some personal examples. Last week, my husband and I attended an improv show at
Cinematic. A couple of years ago, I saw one of my very favorite musicals at Daytona Playhouse, Pippen. It was excellent, by the way. I um enjoyed I I can't even I was blown away by the Ottabon exhibit at
the Museum of Arts and Sciences, and we love to go to the shows at the planetarium there. When my son was 5 years old, I took him to see the Valuchia Civic Ballet at Peabody Auditorium. I forgot to tell him about ballet. It
was his first one. About 30 minutes into the show, he leans over to me and he goes, "Mom, when are they going to talk?" He has since become a person who loves the arts. He's a musician.
He was uh a part of the young actors company at Daytona Playhouse. He was in over seven shows, musicals, radio shows, Christmas productions there, playing the piano and acting. He is not an actor by
profession. He is a pilot in the US Marine Corps. And I believe it was his foundation as an actor and a musician on stage that gave him the confidence, that gave him the composure. And certainly memorizing all those lines and where
your feet are supposed to be really helps when you're a pilot and you have to keep your head cool. These are some of the personal reasons I as a resident of Valuchia County really urge you and I want to thank Councilman
Reinhardt and Councilman Johansson and Councilman Santiago for supporting arts and culture funding. And I encourage you and I challenge you not just to restore the funding for the 2025 2026 year. I
encourage you you to do it far beyond in perpetuity. And I want to close by reading a quote from the letter that was um that Marina mentioned October 14th 2025 signed by 19 council members
including nine chairs. >> Thank you very much. >> Who urged you to do the same and I thank you for your time. God bless. >> Julia Truillo and you will be followed by Tracy Grubs. Good morning, gentlemen. My name is
Julia Truillo and I am here today representing the Valuchia County Cultural Alliance. I want to talk about the cultural arts program. Obviously, as you know, VCCA is an all volunteer group of arts advocates, artists, arts
organizations, and the people that care about them. But we're not grant recipients ourselves. So, we are able to look at this happening with a little more thoughtful perspective. And in thinking about this, I want to suggest to you that we need
collaborative problem solving here. During your time in office, you have had to find some some untangled some knots and and get to a difference of op through a difference of opinion. In doing so, you have worked toward
positive goals to improve the life for the people of Valuchia County. Let's do that again. Let's put those skills to work. There are many citizens in this county who are anxious to see this grant funding restored. 2500 of them have
already signed a petition and many more are doing so on a daily basis. Many of them have, as you know, written, called, and emailed you and they will continue to do so. But most are not grant recipients. They are people who
are deeply affected by the arts and culture available in Valuchia County. So, how can we move forward? The simple answer is to go ahead and release the funds you have already appropriated for in for this item in
this year's budget. It's not a permanent solution, but it does get the issue moving and it keeps the promises you made when you made changes to the grant program last winter and those you made during the budget process. Once you have made that step, the arts
and culture community is ready and willing to come to the table and discuss whatever changes the council wants to make to the grant program. Be it a change in the funding stream or a change in programming, we will act in good faith just as we did last year. All we
ask is that you do the same. We are your constituents and we trust that you have our best interests at heart. Thank you for getting this matter resolved. >> Thank you for your comments. Next, we
have uh a Port Orange City Commissioner, Tracy Grubs. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council. You will be followed by Tara Good, who will be followed by Cameron Vincent. >> Good morning, council. Vice Mayor Grubs, Port Orange.
Cultural Grants. Why we're here today? I think uh you've heard from everybody and what I want to try to do is wrap up a few things that um did not see or hear. As I came to county uh chambers today, I
passed a sign just two blocks away says welcome to the art district. Pretty powerful coming into chambers to talk about this today. We see arts under the bridges of Port Orange. We see art under New Smyrna Beach. Under the bridges as you drive
by, you see arts posted and built in every county park. All of you work hard. I understand that to do your jobs up here being from a city council. I understand budgets.
But at the same time, I understand that when a budget is approved and monies are set to aside and people have their livelihoods and programs set on those funds to be released,
it's hard to believe that it could be denied. Your constituents have asked over and over again. I look at it as part as not just as a council member that has art
house housed in my city, but as a citizen that we look upon you to use the funds that you asked for in our taxes to be provided in the grants that you offer.
You've heard from everyone the impacts that it brings. Port Orange Houses, Art House. We used last year a little over 2,000 kids came to our programs. I sit on the board of directors for Art
House, too. Seeing those numbers and the kids and the impacts and the lives that it does and it changes is pretty remarkable. But at the same time, I'm business owner. I look at the impact that it brings into our community for the city.
The restaurants, the foods, the places that parents may go as their kids are in these programs. That's not just a Port Orange thing. That's every city inside this county that has an art program. Those parents are doing something. Also,
I asked council to approve what has already been budgeted. These funds have been planned for this for years, for most of all programs, but don't let it jeopardize the kids and adult programs. If you want to change it, then change it
next year. Young lady that was just up here talked about that. Reformat the way the grant goes. >> Thank you for your comments. On another note, it would help me probably stick figure
drawer than what we do now. >> Thank you, Tara Good, followed by Cameron Vincent, followed by John Nicholson. >> Good morning. My name is Tara Good. I am a resident of New Simra Beach, Florida.
Now that uh Tracy Grubs has your attention, uh I appreciate the opportunity to speak to all of you. Um, some of you I know personally and uh it's just it's an honor to live in this uh in this county. I've lived in Valuchia County for over 20 years. I'm
an Embry Riddle graduate. Um, I am an active community member. Um, and I just want you to know that I don't have a prepared speech. We've had already wonderful prepared speeches. I'm just here to echo all of the comments that
have been made about the cultural grant. Um this is extremely important um to a lot of us. I don't have children that utilize Art House. Art House um is provided for all of those other children
that need places to go for their cultural um you know experiences. Um cinematic I mean I I don't I don't need to really go on and on. I will save the microphone time for people that are uh
more eloquently um speaking. But I just want to say that I appreciate the opportunity and thank you for listening. Thank you for your attention. And um I'm just going to hand it over to Cameron. >> Cameron Vincent and I probably the last speaker will be John Nicholson.
Good morning, chair and council. My name is Cameron Vincent. I'm the executive director of Art House Foundation. I'm the vice president of the Valuja County Cultural Alliance and I sit on the Valuia County Echo Gallery Advisory Committee. It's good to see you guys again. Feels
like yesterday. I sent you all an email and I wanted to highlight that great minds can differ on fundamental differences and still show respect. Every time I come here, I try to give
you the facts and I try not to pat it at all. I give you cited and sourced facts. I'm going to do that again today. Fact. $611,000 that this grant represents is doubled in direct county tax revenue.
Fact. This grant was pulled from the consent agenda due to moral objection. The two organizations that were highlighted in that both voluntarily and formally withdrew their application so that funding could go forward for the
other organizations. These organizations work together as a team to uplift Valuja County. Fact. The approved budget for the 2025 2026 fiscal year of this amount of $611,000. I understand that you want to put it
towards roads and sidewalks. It will fund less than a,000 ft of improved roads and sidewalks. And that information is generated from the information from the last meeting. I hope that you guys were able to work through that workshop. It sounds exciting. and I I look forward to seeing
what you did with that. Your constituents flooded your emails giving their voice asking you to approve the dispersement of the approved funds this year. I am a Valuja County resident. I am a mother. I am a taxpayer and I am
employed in Valuja County. I urge you to hear your constituents and create a legacy for yourselves defined by integrity. Please approve the dispersement. approve the budgeted grant awards of the 2025 2026 fiscal year. We
are ready and willing and hoping to work with you. This is a partnership. We wish to be your partners to help uplift and generate income for Valuia County so that it can be put to that infrastructure. Thank you. >> Thank you, John Nicholson.
Looks like we'll have room for one more. Time for one more. Stephanie Mason Teague, >> John Nicholson, Daytona Beachside, home of u god knows how many arts and culture. Um,
couple of things. One, when Pat Northy had that list in the newspaper, I said, "Oh my god, it's done. They're going to reverse it." This is history. This is decades of public support from all of
our elected officials that they supported the arts. You also have a program called art in public places. Are you going to cancel that as well? You put aside money every time you build a building to have art in that building.
So by what you just did, you must cancel that because that's wasted money on art. All right. People brought up the idea of patrons. Well, yeah, patrons have given money. That's what some of you have suggested. You dig into your own pocket. You you'll
pay for it out of your pocket. But historically, when you have a king, when you have an emperor, a shogun, a pope, those are leaders. Not elected, but they are leaders of
people. And they all supported the arts. Every one of them. And our history, from what we know of it, comes from the art left behind by elected officials and non-elected officials.
We need this. All right. I teach history, but I also taught math. When I wasn't allowed to teach history because of the color of my skin, I had to teach math. Teachers came to me and said, "Why are you teaching spelling in math?
Why why do the kids have to know definitions? Because I think holistically there are many things that make up a human being, an educated human being, and the arts is primary. The arts are part of the culture that we
bring from one generation to the other. Now, I'm almost positive like you hear Miller Lake over and over again. For a year now, Miller Lake has been showing up. I'm going to guarantee you that the arts are going to come back time and
time again until you do the right thing. You budgeted it, do it, and fix it for next year. Thank you. >> Thank you. Based on the time that we started, we'd have uh time for one more speaker. Stephanie Mason Teague, are you
still There she is. You don't have to run. Hello, I'm Stephanie Mason Teague. I've been a resident of Valuchia County for 35 years and now in Orman Beach. I'm here to talk about the cultural grants and recently I've spoken to several of
you um on the telephone and through email. Thank you so much for your time. And um it was a learning experience. It was also very passionate um just like the talks that we're having here in this chamber. Um they're very passionate. They're about foundational beliefs and
and policies. And I think genuinely we all want the same thing. We want a better quality of life for our children and our residents or the best quality of life for our children and our residents that we can have. Um the conversations ended with an idea that perhaps we
should agree to disagree. And I'm not sure that that's good enough. I'm not sure that that's good enough on something that's so important to thousands of county residents. I'd like to suggest that perhaps a town high town hall style meeting be held where we can
actually converse. This this is a one-way conversation um at times and I think that we need the opportunity to listen and learn from one another in a respectful way. This grant cycle was very different, very different than all the grant cycles that came before it.
the rules were changed, the process was changed, the cultural organizations were put on notice um that this program would likely be phased out over a period of three years. Nonetheless, the organizations, mine included, the Orman Memorial Art Museum and Gardens rewrote
the grants. The Volunteer Cultural Council reviewed the grants and the amounts were added to the county budget. Today, I'm respectfully asking that you keep your word, that you fund this cycle of grant programs. I think it's really a
matter of trust, a matter of honor, and a matter of integrity to the residents of Alia County. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Um, we h we have three minutes left um in public comment and I noticed that the
next speaker up I didn't I didn't rearrange these was uh mayor of Daytona Beach Shores Nancy Miller who may have an update on storm water mitigation. If you'd like to to uh come down and you can wrap up this period. The rest of you
will not be forgotten. I will hold you to the public participation at the end of the uh at the end of the meeting. >> Thank you chair for allowing me to speak. Um so county chair, vice chair, and council members, I am Nancy Miller speaking for just Nancy Miller today,
the co-chair along with Valuchia County Council Jake Johansson. We are the co-chairs of the Valuchia County Storm Water Management and Flooding Committee. and I'm so pleased to be able to share with you today the continuing progress of our subcommittee. At the last meeting
on October 22nd, we had representatives from almost all of our cities in Valuchia County and from the public. We discussed the projects city by city that are underway that address the flooding and storm water concerns. Donna Butler
provide us an over the of the $50 million that will strengthen storm water systems and improve resiliency in six cities. Those are Dand, Deltona, Port Orange, South Daytona, and Poninland along with county and nonprofit
infrastructures. I do see today that you are going to approve more resiliency programs. I appreciate that. One of the gentlemen that spoke before said that he would like all cities to work together. That's exactly what we're doing. Michael Ryan, our information officer, is
working on several programs that will increase public awareness on the numerous county and city projects addressing the flooding. We learned about a new countywide dashboard that will be showing up soon. It will appear on the county website. So we are working
together as shared communities sharing our best practices and lessons learned. In my opinion as serving on the round table, this is the best committee that we have had that we have seen the most effective progress made. We are going to
continue to collaborate and work collectively to uncover every solution and every funding that is available to us as a county. Our next meeting will be held in January of 2026. The date and location will be announced well in
advance. We encourage public participation and will be available for your questions. Thank you, chair, again for letting me speak. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thank you for coming. And just so that everybody understands correctly, our rules state that we have
1 hour 60 minutes for public participation to open the meeting. We will repeat that again at the end of the meeting. You can speak on any item uh when as those items come up that you care to as well. So you actually have three opportunities to speak. Um the
time uh to end public partition participation was uh 10:05. We wouldn't have gotten through this many people if some of you hadn't been very brief and I appreciate that and and thank you. Um
council will move to the next item, the first item, item one, which is the approval of the agenda. And I would like to ask the council to consider moving item 10 uh to uh either the first or
second meeting in January so that the public has more time to go through the 273 or the >> I'll make that motion chair to move that second >> Hansen. >> Okay. We have a a motion to approve the agenda as written except for item 10
which is moved to um you want the staff's choice first or second meeting. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And the second was by Jake Johansson. >> Yes sir. >> Okay. Any comments or questions? All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? And the agenda is approve seven to zero uh with the uh moving of uh item 10 which is is very important. Uh
second item consent agenda. Does any council member have an item they would like to move just for comment or poll for not pull but to comment on after we approve it? >> Uh Councilman Robbins >> just uh excuse me. Item F chair for just
discussion only. >> F for discussion. After voting, does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote? >> Chairman, motion to approve the consent agenda as presented by staff. >> Second. >> We have a motion to approve by Councilman Kent and a second by Vice
Chair Matt Reinhardt. Um, all in favor of approving the consent agenda, please say I. >> Any opposed? Consent agenda is approved seven to zero and we will discuss item F.
Did you need Brad to start or do you want to ask him a question? Just a a quick overview and then I just have some follow-up questions just uh for going forward. Thank you. >> Okay. All right. So item F, this is our crisis support for emergency rental and
mortgage. This is something that we historically have provided internally. Um however last year we did outsource it. There's two nonprofits that were selected. Um the purpose of this was to enhance our program also to save money
um by outsourcing. We no longer have to pay for a caseworker internally and their contract is capped at a specific dollar amount. So we actually save money by outsourcing that way. Um, it also allows us to work with multiple agencies
to ensure to try to eliminate more duplication of benefits out in the community. Instead of just working internally by ourselves, we're working with multiple agencies to try to make sure that people aren't going from agency to agency to receive services. There's also um two main points I'd like
to point out. The cost to maintain housing by preventing people from becoming homeless. Um, these are your people who you're working poor. maybe they had a car repair, maybe they had um you know a medical illness, something come up, we're paying about $1,400 a
month to prevent that. In our rapid rehousing program, when we have to rehhouse them, it's about $16,000. Now, that program, we use federal grants, but there is a huge cost difference. So, we really want to aim to try to keep these households uh in their housing, make it
stable, so that way they can maintain it instead of becoming homeless and then having to rehouse them. Thank you, Carmen. Um, just a couple quick uh follow-up questions, council, and and the reason I I pulled this for discussion, I do see uh just confirm it.
This is coming from the general fund. >> Yes. >> Are we the only municipality that that does this in the county from what I understand? >> Um, we are not. I actually did a little bit of research. Um, there are some other county Oh, you mean within Valuchia County? Yeah.
>> Oh, within Valuchia County. Yes. >> Okay. So, no no cities participate in this? >> Not that I'm aware of. No. >> Um, what other services uh are offered out there? Have we compared these to what the cities are offering? Is there any overlap? Cuz what I'm trying to pretty
much get down to is how do we if council decides, you know, in the future past today to continue this program? How do we do it either through grants to free up the general fund and apply it to other places if we deem so?
>> Correct. So, right now, um there are a few other nonprofits that provide this type of service. um they do have uh they're receiving grants through other resources, but we are the primary provider of this service. We provide over half of the assistance in the
county for emergency rental and mortgage assistance. And I will tell you as somebody who um managed the program, the need for it is significantly higher than the resources we have a um so even though you know being one of the larger providers and there are other agencies
that provide this type of service there isn't enough to go around at this time. as the manager, uh, Miss Hall, where what area or zip codes did you see the most usage and would it be beneficial for the county to maybe partner with
them to see if since we're kind of footing the whole bill uh to partner with those that are using it uh the most within their municipalities? >> I couldn't answer that off the top of my head. I could probably take some guesses, but I think it would be better to get the data and to look at it and then we could look um into having
discussions with those municipalities. >> So, so just a couple things that I would look forward to in the future >> uh for for continual support of this uh that information as well as uh the
oversight now that we're farming this out just a little bit to nonprofits. uh a breakdown of of you know I I saw some staff numbers I saw some program numbers in there um but also to where exactly that money is going some of the
statuses or criteria that we're using to award this money you know if people really need it >> um but also to um just stronger uh oversight but that information for me in the future would
be pertinent um this is general fund money and I I I think we really need to buckle down on it. So, um I I just need that going forward. I didn't call for a vote. Uh but uh I'd like to see that um in the future, see what council has to
say. >> All right, we can do that. >> Uh we have a couple people who have questions, but I'll start with and then we have a member of the public who wanted to speak on this, too. I'll start with county manager George Rectenwald who >> yeah I just wanted to clarify uh on the
one question about the municipalities just a reminder that it because it is the general fund uh so that those monies are collected from taxpayers in the cities and in the unincorporated. So that's it's a function that we do that the cities don't do and therefore that's
why it's in the general fund because it's collected countywide. That's it. >> Thank you uh Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can you give us a a brief explanation as how how are the funds um dispersed in the decision making um for the entities and what they
receive for what specific types of funding? >> Um so this particular item is all for emergency rental and mortgage assistance. Each agency can kind of determine based on need how much goes to rent and mortgage. Um there's definitely a higher need for rental in our
community. Um, and then we did we completed a solicitation and they bid and it's a five-year contract. And so the agencies they receive a percentage I want to say it's about um 75 25% divide between the two agencies based on the
proposals that they submitted. >> Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't they have other entities that are below them that they disperse funds through? >> Not for this particular program. That is for um CFAB. They do. >> Thank you. Just wanted to make sure. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Robbins. And lastly, Chair, thank you.
And and also to Miss Hall, what do they deem or the definitions as an emergency to qualify for these funds? What what is an emergency? House flooding, >> right? You'd have to have some sort of loss of income that's documented. So, it could be a car repair. It might be a
medical expense that came up. Very common is a loss of income. Maybe somebody they have two working household members. somebody lost their job or they could have had a reduction in hours, something like that. So, it has to be documented in the file. >> Thank you.
Okay. And thank you very much, Carmen. >> Sure. >> Oh, Councilman Kent. >> Yeah. Um, Councilman Robin, thanks for pulling this aside so we could have a quick little discussion about it. And I just want to make sure that you know what I'm seeing here is that 5% no more
than 5% of the funds will be utilized for administration and then no no more than 15 will be utilized for outreach costs. So I just want to make sure that that we're all hearing this. So 20% of the funds could be used for outreach and administrative costs that aren't going to the people that need rental and
mortgage assistance. >> That is correct. Um 15% can be used for outreach and outreach is traditionally how you fund a case worker. And so by us eliminating our position within the county, we actually would pay more in salary and benefits to have a case worker than we are allowing under this
contract for outreach. >> Do we know how much more we would have um paid if we kept this in-house with a county employee? >> So with somebody coming in at a base salary, it's a savings of about $5,000 a
year. So but over time that can be much larger as somebody's been employed longer. We've already we've already approved this, but I just to the council I I hate it. I hate 20% not going towards the people that need it. So there I said it.
>> Thank you, Carmen. And uh we have uh Gary Tester who would like to speak on this on this item. Gary here. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Good morning. Uh I'm Gary Tester. I'm
president of Catholic Charities of Central Florida. Uh we're one of the providers of the services that have just been referenced. Uh we have the privilege of providing emergency safety net services to individuals across the nine counties of the dascese of Orlando.
I want to um commend you uh as elected officials for having the foresight to support Brad and Carmen in putting this program forward. Uh we serve over 225,000 people a year uh with basic safety net services. Our goal is to
assess what's going on in a household and do all that we can to try and help them to stay in their home. So it comes under the avenue of preventing homelessness. Uh the last statistics I saw for this county were 2022. 44% of your households were Alice households.
That typically mean Alice is the acronym for asset limited, income constrained, employed. So they're working families. They have very little in the bank. And because of different circumstances, their ability to really progress in income is not there. And so we try and
work with them to make sure that we keep them in their homes as opposed to having them experience homelessness. You go to apartments.com and you ask for the average rental rate of a one-bedroom apartment across Central Florida, the nine counties, it's $1,674.
If you make the average um let's say that you get started at 14 bucks an hour, I'm sorry, which is uh the state's now minimum wage, you have to work out of 160 hour work month, you have to work 113 and a half hours to pay that rent.
If you have a two-bedroom apartment and you're trying to support a family on a true minimum wage job, you have to work 143 hours out of 160. So, the monies that you're allocating out of your general fund actually help keep people in their homes, help them to stay on the
course and actually allow them to continue to be sustaining taxpayers. If they end up homeless, they aren't able to do the things they need to do. And so our case managers use the dollars that you've provided to help families in that need. So I just want to say thank you
for very very much for what you do. We do enjoy uh working with you. We certainly enjoy working with Brad and Carmen and we're privileged to be able to do what we do. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Before we leave the consent agenda, there was another speaker that I I didn't see. Uh
Melissa Lamers, are you still here? Yeah. She wanted to speak on uh item uh H the uh pausing of the ENRAT committee. >> Yes, that was quick. Good morning. Melissa
Lamer's Orman by the Sea District 4. As you know, I have the honor of chairing the county's Environmental and Natural Resources Advisory Committee or ENRACK. It gives me a front row seat to how sections 18 and 28 of SP 180 are
affecting our ability to respond to the impact of flooding. This year you instructed ENRACK to prioritize, excuse me, updating storm water, flood hazard, wetland alteration, and coastal protection ordinances. Last spring, we
delivered updated storm water ordinances to you, and you approved them. But since August 1st, those regulations are null and void. Because of sections 18 and 28 of SP 180, ENRACK, I'm sorry, I'm a little sick. and RA can't continue the
work we'd begun on flood plane management, wetland alteration, and coastal protections. Last week, as a in my personal capacity, I urged our legislative delegation to repeal those sections. When ENRACH met last September, every member expressed their
commitment to continue serving our community. We voted unanimously to ask you to stop the clock on our terms and pause the work of ENRACK until the restrictions of SP 180 are no longer applicable. Today you have the opportunity to formalize that. Thank
you. >> And we did. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um Councilman Robbins >> chair, real quick, no more questions, but um can we have that information on the next go round? uh staff get us uh
this well in advance before this comes back up. It looks like it's a four-year renewal options for you're talking about for item F for F. Okay. Yes, staff. I see lots of heads nodding nodding.
Okay. General fund the nonprofits. That takes us to uh item three and I'm going to turn this over to Councilman Jake Johansson and Michael Ryan uh to recognize Room Full of Veterans. A motion to
approve. >> Second, Johansson. >> We have a motion to approve this uh Veterans Appreciation Day. Uh the motion was by Danny Robbins and the second one's by Jake Johansson.
Was it him or you? Okay. Okay, Jake. Uh, I'm I'm about to read a uh proclamation, so I'll let the pro proclamation stand on its own, but uh November is a a great opportunity to recognize all veterans.
We have uh uh a metric, you know what, ton of them here in Valuchia County. And uh uh Scott Olsen and the team have done a great job with the Valuchia values veterans program. We're we're starting to charge forward with the foundation
and I look forward to uh the next couple of years of success. Um but in the interest of time, let's uh get this proclamation approved so I can read it and Pat can get her pictures. >> Okay, we have a motion in a second to uh
approve uh the proclamation for Veterans Appreciation Day. All in favor say I. >> I. Anybody opposed? there not proclamation with all of you in the room passes seven to zero. Thank you so much
for coming Jake. Okay. >> You want to you want to introduce yourself while he's coming down? >> Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much. So, good morning everybody. My name is Scott Olsson, veteran services director. And uh before we continue, I just want to thank our council and our county manager
for taking the time to recognize and honor our veterans here in Valuchia County as we approach Veterans Day, a day where our nation pauses to thank and honor those who served in the United States military. So when you look around these council chambers, you will see many of our veteran service organizations, our veteran county
employees and professional organizations representing the 50,000 plus veterans across the county. I would like to welcome and recognize the organizations that have taken the time to join us today. So we have the American Legion
American Legion Adam Quinn Post 6, American Legion Historic Baker Post 187, the Korean War Veteran Association of Valuchia County. We have Military Officers Association of West Valuchia. We have our Valuchia Veterans Council.
We have the Vietnam Veterans of America, chapter 1048. There you go. Veterans Enforcement Motorcycle Association out of the city of Deltona. We have representatives here from the barracks of Hope, Bvard Flaggler, and Valuchia County Career
Source, Old Glory Service Dogs, Pay It Forward Packs, Team Red, White, and Blue, Veterans Court, and of course, Valuchia County Veteran Services. So after the proclamation is read, any of these organizations are welcome to come up to the front and take pictures with uh the council, county leadership, and
of course the proclamation. So thank you being a good military guy and knowing darn well that you need a microphone because threearters if not all of us are wearing hearing aids. I'd like to read the following proclamation. Whereas November 11th has
been designated as Veterans Day, a time to honor and pay tribute to all men and women who have served our nation with courage, dedication, and sacrifice in the United States Armed Forces. hand. Whereas the brave veterans of Felicia
County have defended our freedom, preserved our democracy, and protected our way of life through their selfless service in conflicts from World War II to present day operations around the globe. And whereas these heroes returned
home to enrich our communities as leaders, mentors, employees, and neighbors, continuing their service through civic engagement and community involvement. And whereas Valuchia Countyy's trained and
accredited veteran service officers serve as dedicated champions for former and current armed forces members and their families by helping them apply for the compensation, benefits, health care, and services they earn through their
honorable service and sacrifice. And whereas we extend our heartfelt gratitude to the numerous veteran service organizations throughout Valuchia County that provide invaluable support, camaraderie, and assistance to
our veteran community. Now, therefore, we the county council of Valia County, Florida, do hereby proclaim November 11th as Veterans Appreciation Day. And we encourage all residents to take the time to honor our veterans, thank them for the service, and reflect on the
freedoms we enjoy because of their dedication and sacrifice. And it's signed by all of us in county council. Gentlemen, ladies, thank you so much for everything you've done for us. [Applause]
If you would like, I could call each organization forward. So, we'll have uh our team first so they can get back to serving our veterans and uh we could get offices up and running. So, veteran services, please come on up. County. Take a step that way. and Scott also.
[Applause] All right. If anybody from American Legion Post 6 wants to come forward, you guys are good. >> All right. American Legion Post Six. Here we go. It's your time.
Is anybody from Baker Post still here? I know they had to run and take care of some things. So, let's go ahead and move to our Korean War Veteran Association. Mr. Sinski, I believe that's you, sir. What about All right.
[Music] [Applause] All right. And next we could have our Military Officers Association MOA of West Valuchia if you would like to come
up. Hey, Ted. Ted right there. Ted, come on Ted. All right, here we go. All right, we'll move along with Vietnam Veterans of America, chapter 1048. Good [Applause]
All right. Any representatives from Vimma? Vimma. us. Miss Marissa, our commissioner out of Deltona representing Vimma. All right, Barracks of Hope >> doing the great job housing our homeless
veterans. All right. >> Fell down. All right. Our Valuchia Veterans Council. Valuchia Veterans Council. glad. All right, we have Bvard Flagger and Valuchia County Career Source. They have
a designated team that is specifically helps our veteran community. You want me to get one on my phone? >> All right. American Legion Post 255 and War Fighters Motorcycle Club. And we have a representative here.
So this is a representative from American Legion Post 255 and War Fighters Motorcycle Association. All right. Probably the one that everybody's been waiting for. Old Glory Service Dogs. All right, we have pay it forward packs.
Pay it forward packs. Miss Tracy. Okay. County Council, go that way. That's good. Then we got one we got got two more to do. So representatives from team red, white and blue and veterans court are.
And then after this, any of our veterans that were not mentioned in any organizations or any of our veteran county employees, y'all could come up next and that'll be it. Anybody else? Any other veterans? Any of our county employees?
>> Yeah, we have a lot that that came out today. Come on down. Scott. Thank you, sir. Appreciate you. Thank you so much. Before the last veteran leaves, I wanted to ask uh Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. He had a
suggestion that I thought was a really good one. He's going to ask the council if they would consider it. >> Thank you, Chair. Um right before we started our meeting, uh one of our veterans, Mr. Reggie Lord, brought up why we don't have a P flag
flying in here. And it's a very good idea. So I'd like to see what council's I mean we see them in a lot of chambers. I know there is one on site. Uh our chamber does not have one. So I'd like to see what the consensus is to see if we can add one. >> Let's do it.
>> Motion to add P flag to the chambers. >> Second. >> Okay. Motion was made by Jake Johansson. Second was by Troy Kent. Any other discussion? All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And did you want to choose
the column? >> No, that's all good. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, chair. >> Is there Okay. Uh, thank you all. Now, I think you're you're ready for item four, which is a quasi judicial hearing um on the
reszoning from rural residential to the transitional agriculture A3. Before we start, does any council member have uh any exparte that they need to declare? >> None, sir. Nope. None other than the emails we received or I received.
>> Right. >> Okay. I'll ask Jake when he comes in, but none. Okay. Proceed. Morning, chair, council members. Uh Ray Tiner, your growth resource management director. Uh this is a uh a resoning from a rural
residential to uh transitional agriculture. Um it is located off of Enterprise Holstein Road as you can see here on the uh the aerial. Uh the uh the resoning is uh consistent with
the surrounding areas. You can see what the uh existing rural residential is on on on the screen. And then the green color is their transitional uh agricultural uh reszoning proposal. You could see it's really uh consistent
with their surrounding area. It's already existing uh similar uh zoning. It's consistent with the future land use map as well. Uh the rural residential um is one unit per acre and their
transitional is also one unit per acre. So there is no change in density whatsoever. The purpose of the resoning is that the property owner would like to sell agricultural product. So within the transitional agriculture area, you're able to sell products such as
blueberries and what they grow on the on the property. So uh the uh PLDRC at the public hearing on September 19th unanimously approved the uh resoning application. Uh the um Enterprise Preservation Society also supports this
resoning and there's been no public comments. Uh we're here for any additional questions you may have. >> Motion to approve. >> Okay. Second. >> Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve. Second one. Second was by Councilman Santiago. Any >> I just had one question.
>> Questions. >> Just one. >> Could you go back to that one map that showed the two properties in comparison? Yeah. Is that showing that one actually already the A3A bleeds into the REA already?
>> Is that a scrier area? >> Okay, it is. Okay, then I'm I'm still good with it. I just was curious about that. Thank you, chair. >> You're welcome. Any other questions? Any other comments? All in favor of the vacation, please say I. >> I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? and it is approved seven to zero. Which brings us to item six, proposed vacation of a portion of the Orange Hill subdivision. This is also a quasi judicial hearing. Does anyone have any exparte to declare? See
>> this is item five. >> Five. Yes. >> Did I skip one? >> Five is item five. >> It's a vacation still. >> Any qu and still no exparte to declare? >> No. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. We have a motion to approve by
Councilman Robbins, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. >> Great presentation by staff. I just wanted to comment. >> Worked hard on it. >> Questions for staff comments? All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And that motion carries
seven to zero. >> I'm going to repeat the same presentation. Now we're on item six, another proposed vacation of the Orange Hills subdivision. Is there any uh exparte to declare here? >> Motion to approve. >> Second.
>> And uh Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve. Second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Any questions for staff? All in favor say I. >> I. Great job, Ted. >> Opposed. And motion carries seven to zero.
Item seven as a resolution awarding non-exclusive commercial solid waste collection and disposal franchise to Atlantic Coast Hands. Director Bartlett, >> it's exactly what it is. It's a a non-exclusive commercial solid waste
collection contract with one of our providers. >> Motion approved. Joe Hansen. >> Second. Okay, we have a motion to approve by Jake Johansson and the second was by Vice Chair Reinhardt and uh Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you. Uh just a comment, Mr. Chair, if I may.
>> Um thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I just wanted for the public's purposes, I I I think we should be proud in the way we do business this way. Uh a lot of people don't understand the complexities of these things, but because the way the county here and what we've selected to do on a non-exclusive option that saves
taxpayers that live in the unincorporated areas of the county a lot of money, especially businesses or new home constructions or anything that where you have to hire uh a a a trash company privately, your fees are lower
in Valuchia County because of the way we do business here. So what many cities elect to do is to do exclusive ones which adds to the cost significantly. So I'm proud of my colleagues on and staff that this is the way we do it for our unincorporated residents. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. >> Thank you. Any other comments? All in favor of the resolution, please say I. I. >> Any opposed? And it is uh confirmed seven to zero. Item eight,
ordinance 2025-23, amending the local licensing ordinance. I believe this is a second reading. >> Uh this is the first reading. We had a discussion or presentation at your October 7th uh council meeting. And the purpose of this ordinance is um per your
direction is to help alleviate duplication and efforts of specialty licensing. The state uh a couple years ago passed uh some legislation where they uh require uh specific state licensing for specialy licensing such as
installing doors, garage doors, sighting, those type of um uh licensing. So, we got direction from council. Uh we changed the ordinance in front of you so we're not duplicating that effort. So, they will get their license through the
state. It probably would save uh some some dollars for our contractors, too. Maybe roughly about $250 a year. >> We're here for any questions you may have. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Councilman Johansson. >> No questions, comments, though.
>> Any questions for David? Okay. Go ahead with your comment. >> Yes, sir. Thank you, Chairman. Um, you know, this fits right in line with our our going on third year of of trying to minimize government interference and get rid of the the red tape and the barriers
to getting stuff done both from this in this case a contractor's uh perspective and um uh it it kind of makes things more competitive. Now, if you can get a state license, there's more contractors that are that are state licensed that are willing to go through the county
licensing process because it's a pain in the neck. So, hopefully this will increase competition as well and and give our our uh homeowners uh a little more of a choice. So, I appreciate it. Thank you very much, >> Councilman Santiago.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I just want to add to Jake's comments, another example similar to what we did earlier where the trash uh contract saves our constituents money. Um, this also saves our constituents money that are contractors here in Valuchia County. It's a
continuence of efforts we've been doing here. If you remember when we eliminated the business tax receipts, we're one of the leaders in the state uh to eliminate the business tax receipts. Others have followed since. another example of uh making government more efficient and
taking less money from our constituents. So, thank you. >> Is there a motion? >> Motion to approve. >> We have a motion. >> Second, Johansson >> by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Second was by Councilman Johansson.
Any other uh questions, debate? All in favor say I. I. I. >> Any opposed? And the ordinance has passed seven to zero. And that brings us to item nine, ordinance 2025-24,
an ordinance amending section 20-113B to add an area in Daytona Beach as a designated area that allows dogs on the beach >> and all the dogs just left. >> Be back. Yeah. Uh Rand Matusak, director
of public protection. Um that's exactly what this uh is. So today is the day for the actual ordinance and this will allow dogs on the beach then from uh Williams Avenue approach to Seab Breeze Boulevard approach. >> Okay. Uh thank you. Questions from council. Councilman Santiago. >> I was going to make a motion to approve,
Mr. Chair. >> Second. >> We have a motion to approve by David Santiago and a second uh by uh Councilman Kent. Surprisingly, >> uh, we also have a couple members of the public who would like to speak on this.
Uh, Councilman Jake Johansson, >> quick question for Random. Can can you verify the yearly cost to government? >> So, um, Daytona Dog Beach, uh, Incorporated has, um, volunteered to cover the cost of, uh, the waste bags.
um uh that is really the the continuing cost there and then uh we have some uh the um enforcement of the dogs on the beach uh will be done or you know the the animal control portion of that. They're just going to kind of rope it into the rest of their other um u uh
zone there. So it's minimal really. The cost here is is from one dog beach to the other about that's about it >> basically. Yeah. So yep. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh John Nicholson
and then uh Nanette Mackielle Petrella. John Nixon. Nona Beachside. I don't mind having a uh portion of our beach uh Dog Beach. Having half of our city dog beach is a bit much. Uh, having been told that
Dog Beach plans on taking all of our beach for Dog Beach, I'm not happy with. Um, we've lost the center of our beach uh to no driving. This was like 30 years ago. Uh, we've lost now the northern half of
our beach um because of dogs. Some of us would prefer to have a dog free beach like we have car-free beach. Um, so the ability to go to the beach and not be hassled, not be bitten, not be uh walked on in the whole
nine yards that people fear. Uh, I've seen it in McDonald's just a week ago. Somebody brought their dog into McDonald's and went after a woman standing at the counter. Uh, we had a woman two weeks ago murdered by her own
dogs. Those things do happen. Rare as they are, they do happen. So, um I don't mind uh actually I do mind giving half of the city. Uh it's three times the size that
Orman got. I'm asking you when it comes before you again or the next council, you do not eliminate all of our beach um for dogs. uh you're not aware, but with your um
ability to uh alter the beach uh from ISB to university, our public, people that live there no longer have free access to our beach because you've allowed your vendors for their umbrellas
to every inch of that area. So when we go down to the beach to put our towels, we have to sit behind the umbrellas. And if it's high tide, we don't get to go at all because the umbrellas have uh preference. So what you do has effects.
So those of us that live there, it's our economic engine, not only to us, but the county. Every time you take another little bit away, we lose something. So I'm asking you now that you've done this, please don't do it for the rest of the city. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh, Nanette Petrella. >> And then we'll have final comments from the council. >> Well, good morning council members, county management, and the staff that's here. My name is Nanette McKill
Petrella. I live in Daytona Beachside as well, but I'm here this morning representing Daytona Dog Beach, Inc. as its president. And I wanted to begin by expressing our sincere appreciation for your partnership, collaboration, and
leadership in helping make dog friendly beaches in Valuchia County a reality. What began as a small vision, a single stretch of sand where responsible dog owners could safely share the shore, has grown into a true community success
story. Together, we've shown that when citizens, volunteers, and local government work together with mutual respect and accountability, we can create something that benefits both people and the environment. Because of your support, thousands of residents and
visitors have enjoyed this experience. Families, veterans, which we saw today, seniors, and animals, all united by the simple joy of spending time together at the beach. And through our shared stewardship,
these areas have remained clean, safe, and well-maintained. Now, as we look into the future, we're often asked by residents and also by you, is Daytona Dog Beach, Inc. ready and able to continue to help? And I do
want to make a statement very clearly. Daytona Dog Beach, Inc. has never made the comment to anyone that we want the entire beach to be dog friendly. So I correct what was said previously to me coming up here. But our answer to are we ready and able
is yes. As a full and committed partner, we are prepared to continue providing trained volunteers, beach cleanup, public education on responsible use, and community outreach that builds pride and accountability. We are prepared to
continue to fund supplies at existing dog friendly beaches and are prepared to fund expansion if and when you are ready to move forward. We believe the next step is expanding access thoughtfully and equitably across the county and it
would be to provide additional areas as you would deem appropriate potentially in Orman by the Sea in the South Daytona Beach area, Daytona Beach Shores, Wilbur by the Sea Pawns Inlet area and New Smyrna Beach. We hear from people all
the time that people want closer access. These are carefully chosen locations that will give residents and visitors fair, balanced access across the entire coast. So today, we respectfully ask that you approve ordinance 202524
and move forward in 2026 if you deem appropriate to continue this process so that our area can be a statewide leader in coastal access, responsible recreation, and community partnership. Thank you >> very much for your partnership on this
all along. Uh I will open this up to uh final comments by county council. Um that does close the public participation. Uh Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, Mr. Nichols comments made me start thinking because I didn't ask this question prior
to the meeting, but um if I may, Mr. Sure. If if staff could answer as a percentage of um if they can of the beach, how much are we taking of Daytona Beaches beach to do this? I don't know the answer to that. Maybe not
percentage, but can you give us a better understanding? >> Sure. So, uh the the Daytona Dog Beach area is about 1.6 or 1.7 miles. Um there's 47 miles of beach in Valuchia County. >> And they have 1.6. How much are we taking again? >> Uh of uh so so 1.6 6 milesi is the dog
beach area. 1.6 or 1.7 miles is the dog beach area. I'm not sure the coastline in Daytona Beach specifically. Five or six miles in uh in uh 5 miles in in Daytona Beach. >> And do we know of again also in in
regarding Mr. Nichols questions. He mentioned about the the beach chairs and stuff like that which limits access to our locals also. Sounds like it restricts it somehow for them utilizing the beach. Do we know how much of that is also being utilized?
>> Good morning. Jessica Ventress, coastal director for county. The contract that the county holds with a master concessionire requires them to leave holes about 10 feet. The chairs cannot be set up closer than 10 feet than each other. Uh they are also the public has
access first and foremost. So if you would like to have your towel or your setup or your truck or your tent or wherever in one very specific location as long as the chair is not occupied, you can request to have the chairs moved and there are signs saying such on the chairs as well. So we we 100% defer to
the public if public access is is not being provided. >> Thank you. And you know, Mr. Nichols, you you you put something in my head, so I got to speak to it. I appreciate your comments. I didn't it I mean I I am concerned now that we're taking almost half their beach in Daytona to do this.
Why did we go so far? What was why when we made we made a smaller area before? >> Right. So at the prior meeting where this was discussed, uh council was presented with three options. This was the largest one. Uh there was also the
option from um uh Zelda I think was the smallest one and then in between that was uh Hartford Avenue. >> Yeah. Um my concern with it the size because Daytona Beach is our tourist >> capital of of Valuchia, right? If you
want to call it that. And it's a different animal, no pun intended with hug, right? But it's a different uh area compared to Orman. Orman. I mean, I know people tourists go to Orman, but Daytona is is is the hub. I I'm concerned now um
that we went too far um in taking uh the tourists because not everybody is a is a dog lover, right? So, um guys, I I I think we went too far. I I I don't think I don't think there's a
demand to do 1.6 miles. Meaning um you know if when you look at roads right how many roads are going how many cars are going down a road you say okay well if a thousand cars are going down this road then we need a fourlane I'm making up the numbers right but I don't know if there's a demand to say that we have to
set aside 1.6 six miles of beach to be dog friendly beach. Um, again, not against it because I was an advocate for you, remember years ago, but I think we went too far. I just want to see if my my colleagues think that maybe we can shrink this down. >> Councilman Johansson.
>> Yes, sir. Um I first of all um I often comment that the worst place for business like this would be inside government. So I I thank uh Nette for for taking care of this and
and and being good stewards of the beach to the best of your ability. Um, number two, there there's kind of like the the the first area that we approved. If if this doesn't work out for us, uh, we can
always reel it back in. Uh, I'm all for trying something that I think is going to work, especially because I don't believe there's going to be that many more dogs on the beach. And by extending the area, we decrease the the the
population density, if you will. Um, if we have 500 dogs on the beach and they're on a bigger portion of the beach, uh, uh, it's less intrusive. Uh, as as you guys are well aware, I've lived all over the country and in some
other places of the world where dog beach is just part of life and and it it kind of becomes part of life. Um, I don't see the kind of dogs that eat people alive uh on the beach. I'm not
saying that they're not there. Um but but we have sharks in the water. Uh we have alligators in the pond and everybody you're you're just pay attention to where you are and what you're doing and and what's going on about you and we can live safely
together. Uh I think this is worth a try. If it doesn't work out, we just reel it back in and and uh um cut it down. But I I don't think I I think after the dust settles, everybody's going to kind of live with
it and go, "This is life." Uh like everything else we do. So, um uh I'm I'm not opposed right now. Thank you, sir. Councilman Kent, >> thank you, Chairman. And u Mr. Santiago, thank thank you for for voicing your concern and I appreciate that instead of
after the fact. I'm glad that we're able to have this healthy discussion. And I'll also say during during my comments here, um that I appreciate Mr. Nicholson. Uh there's a lot that he comes up and says that I I agree with. Um I've told him that after the meetings as we walk out to our vehicles, he's our
our most consistent um attendant at at these meetings. Um and I'm I'm appreciative of of that as well. As as far as um the 6 miles in Orman Beach and the 1.6 6 miles here. I think a couple
of things we need to talk about. First of all, um they mentioned that Daytona Beach, the area is 5 miles. So, this isn't 2.5. This isn't 50% of the beach. Okay? It's about a about a mile shy of 50% of the beach. The other piece is,
you know, that agenda item came to us the first time. The number of businesses and hotels that said, "We want this. We're a dog friendly hotel. We want this in front of our business." um that stuck out to me. I've not we've
not had anybody uh come and scream and yell about how horrible this is except for Mr. Nicholson and and he didn't even scream and yell how horrible it is. He just doesn't like the size of it. Um that being said, you know, I live in Orman Beach and we walk to the beach.
That's how close we are. For for insurance purposes, we're um uh 1,800 feet away from Oh, no. uh little less than that to the beach. So, we walked to the beach and I can tell you that on the busiest time that I've
ever seen the Orman dog beach, my wife and I counted 23 dogs in6 miles. 23 dogs. No one was on top of each other. And I agree with Mr. Johansson. This will allow people to separate more.
Um, and I I just challenge anybody on this council to go down to the 06 miles in Orman Beach. It is the cleanest section of beach in Valuchia County. Uh, Nanette's volunteers. And not only that, but the educational piece that is so
important and people want this to succeed. They've gone 37 years without this. So, I'm a rule follower. So, if you tell me where I can bring my dog, I'm going to bring my dog to that location. And by the way, not just myself, but those individuals who are also rule followers are going to clean
up after their dog because number one, they're not foul, nasty, disgusting human beings that would allow something like that, but number two, they want this to work. So, they want to be good stewards of of their community. Um a and
at the rare um offset that this wouldn't work. I agree we could come back to the table and say, "Okay, it was it was 1.6 miles. We can do the smallest section uh if there's a if there's a problem." But this has been
wildly successful in Orman Beach. that entire city commission supported this 50 and it has been extremely successful and you know I appreciate that Nette came forward and has a plan for other
locations but I'm going to tell you all this publicly right now. I campaigned on this issue. I I I fought for this. I wanted one in every Beachside community and my wings got clipped on that and we we did a a small section to begin with.
But I'm going to tell you all right now, um, someone else is going to have to bring up another location if we want it. I'm very pleased with the Orman location and I'm extremely pleased with the Daytona location. So, I just want you to know, you know, un unless you know, one of you individuals says, "Hey, I've got
constituents in in my district because my districts now are covered. They've the people asked for it. We've given it to them." And um, you know, uh, Mr. Reinhardt, Mr. Johansson chair um and
Danny, not to leave you two guys out, but you don't represent beachside areas. Doesn't mean you can't bring it up and I won't support it. I'm just saying I want you to have a level of comfort that I'm not pushing for the entire beach even though I think it would be it would make
sense and and I I would support it. I probably won't be the one bringing it up. So, Mr. Johansson, I I agree with you. I think this is a smart move. Um, and I think it checks the box for our residents that publicly spoke about
this, asked for this, and it just goes to prove common sense can rule the day and win the day as well. Um, and if there's a problem, we can we can deal with it. But I I get shut off when I
start hearing fear-mongering, when I hear nonsense. Someone sending an email about, "Oh, the dog the dog mess is going to give everybody diseases or the dogs are eating people." Like, you're that's nonsense. >> Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. All good comments.
I I appreciate it. And that's why I I brought up the comment the the the question to hear what you all had to say. Um I think you're right, Jake. Like you said, we can change it if we needed to. Uh my my main concern is to make sure that it doesn't have a negative effect and I don't know the answer. Not probably be positive. I hope it is to
the area that's very important to the economic engine of Valuchia County. So I'm ready to vote, Mr. Chair. Thank you. >> Okay. And I don't see any other uh comments. So uh Christa, would you call the role on this one? >> Mr. Johansson?
>> Yes. >> Mr. Kent? >> Yes. >> Mr. Reinhardt? >> Yes. >> Mr. Robbins? >> Mr. Santiago? >> Yes. Mr. Dempsey, >> yes. >> Mr. Brower, >> yes. And the new dog beach is established with a vote of seven to
zero. >> Uh, good work, Nanette. Good work, Mr. Kent. And let's hope for good success. Item 10 has been postponed, retabled, or
rescheduled for January. And item 11, I would I would like to ask the council um to consider something a little bit different on this
uh on this item. Um but I'm going to let the uh who's who's presenting it? >> I am Carmen. >> Okay. Go ahead and present it and then >> All right. Good morning. Carmen Hall, community assistance director. This item
is our children and families advisory board funding recommendation for this up or for this current fiscal year at $2.6 million. Um, back in as you guys are aware, this program primarily focuses on funding programs that provide services
to the working poor and to our elderly and disabled members in our community. So a lot of these programs just to highlight on some programs that are um funded is afterchool programs such as boys and girls club our wa water safety education initiative which was a council initiative for swim scholarships. We
also fund um through early learning coalition the kindergarten readiness program that's so all five year olds are ready for kindergarten. We also fund cinders retreat which covers for our elderly population that gap between needing elderly services before long-term Medicaid kicks in. there's a
gap so that way their family members can continue working. So we recently completed a nine-month process revamping the CFAB program. So we did that through community events. We had an online survey and then we also had a lot of public participation. We um we also held
stakeholder workshops. So all of the providers at our community attended those workshops and we had great participation by going through this process. um we made sure that all of the gaps and services were covered in our five service categories. At this time, CFAB
did vote to remove contingency funding. And the reason for that is because contingency funding was designed to provide um funds to agencies that did not fit into a service category. Now that the service categories have been revamped, all the um agencies would fit
into a service category. So that's why it was recommended to eliminate contingency. We also align the goals to the workforce targets that are established by the Florida Chamber of Commerce. That's the 2030 blueprint. And so all of these agencies, they will um report back on
goals that align with that blueprint established by the Chamber of Commerce. We include a performance-based milestone. So as if these agencies hit the milestones that are established, they can receive an additional 10% of funding that is already budgeted in this. So we would not be coming back for
more funds. It's accounted for. So, they have to hit the milestones and they can receive additional funds. And then another um really valid point to bring up is the return on investment. For every dollar in CFAB, we're bringing an additional $9 back to the community for these programs. So, that allows us, it's
not just CFAB funding these programs. There's other funds coming into the community to help provide these services. There any questions? >> Questions? Questions from the council? We'll start there. >> I have one question.
>> Okay, Councilman Santiago, >> I'll use the terminology that I We have these primary organizations that also have suborganizations below them, right? >> Um, from a process perspective, um, do we put um suggested practices or
requirements to the primary agencies uh on accounts payable to the subs, if I'll use that word, >> right? And what I mean by that, let me just elaborate. Let me just dig down the great word. Um do we have requirements where they have to pay them within a
certain amount of time um from service because usually it's services provided they build afterwards. Right. >> Correct. Correct. >> So in other words, do we have our primaries are we requiring our primaries to pay within so many days? >> Um I do believe that is a requirement in the contract because we are we do have
the I think believe it's the 30 30 45 days and they do abide by that. But I can confirm that. But they have so they they have our contract is also part of their subcontracts. So we have that requirement. So that would in turn be
implemented for those agencies. >> Okay. Yeah. If you could follow up on that and get it to whoever channels. I just want to make sure that we're holding them to a standard to make sure that the subs are being paid timely. I've heard concerns. Not I haven't collab collaborated it, but this is what I heard. So I just want to make sure we're covering our basis there. Thank
you, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Other questions? Danny, did you have a question? Okay, go ahead. Thank you, Chair uh Carmen. I see the uh the water education um we have a bunch of them, which is great.
How are the usage? Are we seeing a lot of um usage with that uh with those programs? >> Yes, for water safety, we were able We have um the four agencies and last
year we provided 389 scholarships to individuals. >> Um we also provided 374 door and pool alarms to households in the community. So that way they're notified if a small child falls into the pool, an alarm would go off or um the door windows if
they're opened, they beep and so that way they're aware that somebody's leaving. So >> thank you. Mhm. >> No issues with it though. Um, >> all positive feedback. >> Yes, very positive feedback and we were able to really expand this year from how
many we provided in previous years. So, >> excellent. Thank you. >> Thank you. That's it for questions for staff. Um, I'm going to go a little bit different direction because I believe this council has a higher obligation to
then to fund the requests that are listed here today. Everyone in America complains about out of control spending from the federal government down to the cities. Yet we do the same thing um at the city county level. We spend far
beyond our core government responsibilities. Today we're being asked to spend the money we have taken from families to help with the needs of another family. We are a generous people in our county.
Our constituents are always willing to help those in need. But it should be their decision, not ours. We see it. We feel it. We want to help. But are we reducing the needs put before us today?
Or are we exasperating those needs and actually adding to the ranks of the needies with each dollar we take from every struggling family to give to nonprofit organizations? We have more families each year who can't afford
their first house or the exorbitant rents, foods, and utilities. The truth is, we are all taxed more than our founders ever thought would be possible or legitimate. In 1861, the income tax was first introduced. It was going to be
3% for incomes over $800. When considering all the taxes, the property taxes, the income taxes, fees, and assessments placed upon every American, many are forced to hand over as high as
50% of their income to local government all the way to the c to the national government. It's obscene. If we are ever going to reduce the oppressive tax burden government places in our constituents, we must start with local governments. We have a great
responsibility to protect our neighbors and our future generations from the collision course our republic which is based on capitalism and personal responsibility. A collision course with socialism and con communism which relies
on the hard work of other people. To many too many people can't survive on what government so graciously allows us to keep. Both parents have to work. Many forgo having a family. The self-respect of fathers and mothers is destroyed by
the realization they can't provide adequate housing, food, and sustenance for their own children. The reality today is that our con constituents face the crushing force of a burdensome government none of us want, but
governments at all levels sustain. It hurts to see some seniors have to depend on others to bring them food supplied from the income taken from younger families that are struggling themselves.
But we will never break out of this redistribution cycle by adding to the redundancy of duplicated services from every layer of government. Gentlemen, I know this is is tough, but if we really want to reduce the people
with real needs on these pages, we must reduce spending. There is no organization on today's item that is not serving our community. There are excellent, fine organizations. I'm not suggesting we eliminate any of their
programs. We should simply be asking their boards to plan for a future funded with generous donations because our constituents can afford to decide to give to them. Government should not take income from one person to give to a
nonprofit organization that may not be able or want to donate to. That's not a donation at all. It's theft. The way we fight poverty is to let our constituents keep more of their money so they are not
added to the list of potential recipients next year. The best thing we can do for future generations is to focus on our core government responsibilities. We can't take the places of churches and synagogues and it is not government's
place to be generous with taxpayers money. A constituent of Davy Crockett said way back in 1834, "The power of collecting and dispersing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man." So,
here's what I'm proposing. Since we have never discussed ending this spending uh before, I'm suggesting that we approve these funds for this year as the very last year. We thank the children's and family uh services board for their hard
work and terminate that board today. Then every nonprofit board member in Valuchia County should plan for their future budgets without asking for taxpayer donations. I am asking you all to end the cycle of
redistribution and let our constituents choose their own giving after they have provided for their own families. Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, I wasn't expecting that, chair, but I I I get it.
Um, you know, philosophically, I I agree with many of your comments. I think my my uh my history here has proven that that as an individual council member, I try to find ways to cut
fees, taxes, and things that that that are unnecessary in many cases. But I I I don't agree with the portion of your comments of eliminating um this program. Um I mainly because that many of these
programs that are in here are services that um that in some cases people would expect or in the past have been provided by the county. Um I'm not prepared to to blow up the pro
boys and girls program, boys and girls club, sorry. Um, and and I know you're suggesting to put it in this continue this year, but and I'm I'm all for encouraging private donations and finding ways for us to get more private sector encouraging them uh to to do
stuff like that. Uh, Council on Aging. Um, this is just a segment of the population that in many cases they they can't provide for themselves. And I also agree that maybe there's opportunities for uh our our faith-based organizations
to to step up some too. But this is a uh I think this is a quality of life service for a community. You know, we live in a civilized community and we help each other. Um and I think these are services, you know, water safety education. Um trying to prevent children
from from drowning. Um, you know, there's there's families out there that can't afford to hire a uh private swim instructor. Um, and I'm I'm not prepared to just pull the rug under
these programs. It's just too much good is done from this. Um, but I'm all for finding ways to reduce the size of our local government. I think it's important to note also in my last three minutes is that Valuchia County is a
somewhat of an example amongst our 67 counties today with what we do. We're an example where they they many state organizations and from from a finance side and others look at us as we we we don't have it perfect but we do it right. We're pretty fiscally
conservative here in this county. Um, and you know, hence why people have said, "Why hasn't Doge come to Valuchia?" Uh, you know, you hear that rhetoric out there, but it's because they've looked at us at a high level and they said kind of gets it right. We're
not perfect, but Valuchia is more of a model that the state leadership would like for us to be um other other uh counties to be. So, um I'm not prepared to do that, Mr. Chair. I understand you your perspective and respect your your
thought process on that, but too much good comes out of this and I'm not prepared to pull the rug from under the I think we could find other areas before we do that. But I am all for looking at ways to improve the program and improving that means also finding ways for them to do better on the private
side and maybe uh less dependency on the government side. I think that's a good model to have in any government program. Uh but I'm not prepared to to vote to eliminate it for next year. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, uh Chair. Uh real quick, uh
Chair David, all all good points. Uh the two things that really stand out to me right a bit right out right out of the gate in terms of like core responsibilities. It's been been the topic. Um Easter Seals, people with disabilities. If anybody needs the help
from the government um um it's the persons with disabilities in my opinion uh because they they cannot in most cases function um by themselves they cannot work uh they cannot provide for themselves. So I think it would be a uh
unwise choice to to um take that away but also to uh public safety when it comes to u life saving programs. uh like this. You know, we serviced close to 400 uh swim lessons. That's potentially 400
lives saved at some point. We've all jumped in a pool after one of our kids or someone else's kid that we don't even know at a public pool or resort, whatever. So, um chairman h have and I don't disagree. I actually uh agree with
you a lot what you said, but um have you got a chance or or can we look at uh before we jump head first in into this or or or it fails? Um, can we look at or have you looked at
each organization? Is it possible we could uh maybe get a menu and separate the core needs versus maybe the the non-core needs or we narrow down and bring it back. There may be some stuff in there that we
could um eliminate. uh what we just have to do is identify the core needs and it's because there and I think there there would be a consensus that there is some good that that comes out of these uh I am a believer in that but also want to give it an opportunity so we can make those
um cuts as this board sees fit just just for consideration for whatever it's worth. >> Okay. U all good ideas. I'll respond to that when it's when it's my turn. Um Jake Johansson. >> Thank you, Chairman. Um
one of our responsibilities is is public uh safety obviously and and when you look at all the programs uh uh at some point uh the Boys and Girls Clubs do great things
to set people on the right track. So, we're not paying for, god forbid, things like drug addiction, uh, uh, uh, juvenile crime, things of that nature. Um,
I if you go down to every one of these, they have a a use for our our core responsibilities. And we keep on talking about core responsibilities. But if our core responsibility is
to save taxpayer money at any expense, well then let's get down to it next budget season. And I'm all for it if that's our if that's what we feel our core responsibility is. But but I think you're going to find um a council or
three or four down the line uh that they're going to be complaining that we gutted the programs to the point where now they're dealing with the second and third order effects of cancelling some of these programs. Kids on the street,
mailboxes being bashed in. Uh, you know, the sheriff's going to talk to us about drug use and fentanyl and he doesn't have enough room for the bodies and all that stuff that happened a couple years ago. I know it's gloom and doom, but um,
but this stuff saves that. I don't I don't want to bury babies because they don't know how to swim or float. This is money worth it for me and it's responsibility in my opinion uh to our citizens. Do we have a responsibility to
the to the people that can barely make ends meet and can't afford a home? Yeah. But we have a responsibility to the other 400,000 people that live here as well. Um uh that that some of them fall
into this category. So, uh, I'm I'm all for as we did last year and as we did, I believe, u Dr. Burba, we did have a community services advisory board uh u
five-year plan or 10-year plan come to us. Didn't we have something come to our council last year? No, you can say no. >> Don't believe so. Not with the >> All right. That that was that was my subcommittee thing.
>> Social services expenditures which um we're preparing for council again this year. Got it. So you can see you know what percentages federal grants, state grants, and uh general fund dollars. And every year we share that with you. We're finalizing it at this time.
>> Got it. Thank you. So I I I like where the chairman's going with with trying to find ways to trim down the general fund budget. Um uh and and I like that that we want to fund this and work it at whittling it down. Maybe there is
dollars to be whittleled down. Um uh but getting rid of it, I think it's uh cutting off our nose despite our face in in this uh in this case and we'll find that years down the road uh it was a mistake or we cut too deep. So uh those
are my comments. Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. And I I I would just respond uh Jade to well to you and to to David that I haven't suggested that we eliminate a single program, but you've un you've you've underscored the larger
problem and that is that we seem to believe that neither the arts or these programs can survive without us taking money from taxpayers and making their charitable contributions for them. They don't go away because we're not funding them.
they go back to their board and plan on how do they uh uh what programs do they fund and how do they fund them. By very definition, a nonprofit is a charitable organization that depends on public giving. I don't think the public can
afford to give. That's that's my issue. That's my problem because they're taxed enough already. between tax and rent and mortgages and insurance and the cost of everything else. We have families leaving. We have young families that are
struggling to get started and we have an obligation to look at them, too. So, I think I I would I'll give you'll be back in a minute. Um the uh so so we're not I'm not talking about blowing up any
problems. Families can't afford to give now. Let's give them an opportunity to make their own charitable giving decisions instead of us making for them. I I don't want to wait till next budget season. We approve the budget and then every meeting we're asked to approve
millions of dollars of spending. That's when it's finally approved is when we vote on it. Um this morning I I think we should work on it all year or we will never reduce uh the budget to the point that we need to. and and I think we are
doing uh a good job, a better job than most counties. I agree. That's why we're not being dogeed. But I also am telling you the state's going to take over for us and and they're going to tell us what's funded and what's not. I'm not against these programs. I'm not against
the arts. It's just not our responsibility to give our taxpayers money out of the general fund to a nonprofit. And um that's you know that's my belief at this point and and Danny um
I really appreciate what you say. All of that is good. This count this council can decide whatever you want. I'm just telling you where I am. If you want to look at each one I think that's that's great. So um Councilman Dempsey.
>> Yeah. Chair, I I agree with you. I really applaud you having the courage to step out and actually make that proposition. I think it's wonderful that you brought out the Davy Crockett story. Um, and just for those of you who may not know what that is, the Georgetown
fire wiped out a lot of the families of that time, and he they proposed to give $20,000 to the victims from the government, citing a war a wealthy country. And one of the voters said he would not support him because it was a slap in the face of the Constitution to
take other people's money to give to what you think is a needy cause. And I'm so glad that you you brought that up. You sound very Ron Paulish. um in your statement and I I appreciate that because I mean a lot of these I I
think if I but I'd like what Danny proposed too is that uh maybe we take a look into this because there might be some programs that really are good, but I'm just seeing like 47,000 going to transportation. Well, we've already got other transportation funds. We've got
money going into daycare services. We um there's a lot of money here that I think could be cut. Maybe not all, but I do like the fact that you are holding close to um forcing taxpayers to fund charities, and I'm I'm glad you're going in that direction. So, I support what
you're proposing. I just want to hear what everybody else has to say, but I do thank you for bringing that up, >> Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair. I'm not going to take long. Um, a lot of what you said I I I will say as well I I I see where you're coming from
and I respect that and I agree with a lot of it. Um, I do like the idea. I mean, if you want to look at this at a later time, I don't think I I've said it before about the arts fourth quarter, ninth inning, don't believe in pulling the rug. Um, to say that we do away with
it alto together today without giving the opportunity for some of these agencies. Some are represented here today, some are not without giving them the opportunity to plead their case. Um, and looking at the list, you know, right off the bat, I don't really see anything that I I differ with uh with respect to
what's core and what's non non-core. So, we'll I heard it said one time before, agree to disagree um just like I did with the arts. Uh agree to disagree uh on what I see as a core responsibility and what others see as a core responsibility. Um,
a lot of these funding from my understanding comes, Brad, you can verify or not is funneled from the federal government. Correct. >> These funds are >> are all general fund. >> They're all general fun. >> All general fund. Okay. So, I know a lot of programs that we do, we do receive
that. >> The vast majority of what we do are is using state and federal grants. You are correct. >> That's funneled through us. Correct. So, and we may see a drastic change in that real soon to a theater near you. So, um that being said, just keep that in mind.
But I think that's something that I've said it before. If you want to talk about this, you know, we we talk about our goal setting in January, then that's definitely I think the time. But to say we approve it this year and then that's it, we're done without giving the opportunity for those individuals to
come to the table. Um, looking at my district, there's a lot of people that are that are hurting uh in the Daytona Beach area, the Midtown area. Um, and that by their choice. So, um, just something
we're to to think about. >> And just to to build on that and share with you that we have over the years, there used to be many more service categories looked at what are our core responsibility, where are there gaps in service in our community. That's what
this funding is about is there are gaps where that federal or state money is not available. Um and we're we're standing in that gap for our community. One of the things that we did aligning with this council's philosophy is moving to
this um using the chamers measures this year, these outcomes and and measures to really say we need and in order to make that 2030 blueprint, we need qualified workers in our community. We need people with employability skills. So, we're
accomplishing we're trying to accomplish two things with this with this money. We also move to performance-based contract. So, you will get, you know, the 10%. Carmen didn't say we're giving you 90% but you got to perform, you know, above and beyond to get the additional 10%.
That's another thing that we've implemented based on the things that we're hearing from this council asking about leveraged dollars. You know, if we're if we're investing a dollar, what's our return on investment? So, these are all questions that we're asking ourselves and asking our subs um
to who are filling this gap really and providing the evidence and outcomes to support that they're moving the needle for us. >> Councilman Troy Kent. >> Thank you, Chairman.
Chairman, I um I mean this only as a compliment. I hope you take it exactly the way I'm going to say this. It was some of the best leadership I've seen from you, if not the best leadership in our going on three years of working
together. I'm appreciative of you being the type of leader today who will bring up something that is unpopular and um you will certainly get beat up over this,
but that's what good leaders do is they don't always just say yes. It's easy to say yes. It's easy to just $2.6 million. Yes. $611,000. Yes, it's easy to do that. It's It's not
easy to say no and to question where we are in this process. Some say it's too late in the game. The budget's already been there. Well, for
four of us and others um that talked about it just didn't vote that way. It's not too late until it's too late. you can create a budget and then still change your mind and make decisions and and we did that with our cultural council and we can do that with this as
well. So I I publicly applaud you chairman for having the courage to talk about this and Mr. Robbins you are spot on and that is exactly what we need to do. We need to go line item
by line item because h how can you disagree with Mr. to Joe Hansen when he talks about those that are disabled in our community. Those are the ones that need the most help and support.
You know, you got to take care of your kids and your elderly and your disabled just as a as a loving community. I'm not saying necessarily government has to do that because I agree with what the chairman said. This should come out of the pockets of individuals instead of government taking the money in a a form
of taxes and then deciding who the winners and losers are. Like I'm still I'm looking at the um the the swimming contracts and I'm like why did why is Easter Seals getting 29,950 and Aqua Journey is only getting
17,970? Like that's a question I had that I should have had with staff. Um because Troy and Heather Kent, we paid for Wyatt Kent to get swim lessons because we could. And and we paid for
our grandchildren, Hudson and Truit, to have infant swim lessons because we could. And our daughter's going to have a baby in the next three weeks. And we're already told them we're paying for Hie to have her swim lessons as well because we can. But you bring up a
really good topic, chairman, because at the end of the day, the we all won nonpartisan elections. Nonpartisan. We represent everybody in our district. Um, but we all have a party affiliation
as well. And we've talked about being fiscal conservatives. And it didn't feel good for me when my city took my tax dollars and spent it in another city for a piece of art that I'm shaking my head
going, why did my tax dollars pay for this whenever I'm sending my own personal money to this? So that could be tied in to this as well. But I think Mr. Robbins, the question may be, you know, how much fat do we trim from this pig?
you know, do we say none or is there is there a certain amount? And it's a it's a healthy exercise we need to desperately go through. And chairman, it wasn't lost on me that you weren't talking about pulling funding right now.
But I want to remind you, it's not too late. We we get that. We get, you know, people are like, "You can't do that. You've already set the budget." No, we can. We We can do that. And I'm not saying it's not going to happen right now because I think after hearing from others it it certainly could,
but I'm appreciative of the way this conversation is going because it sounds like there is movement to make some changes because it's general fund money and there is good that comes from it. But I think we need to kind of dial into
that conversation a little more because at the end of the day, we want great things for our community. I know I do. And I want the biggest and best bang for the taxpayer dollar. It's not lost on me that $2.6 million. That's not my that's not my money to just give. Thank you,
Chairman. >> Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I just wanted to to kind of address a little bit, you know, the I don't see this as taking money from others and giving it to others. I forgot the exact terminology
that was was said. Um because at the end of the day, we receive monies from the general public to provide all kinds of services, right? And when I look at this, I think, you know, the commentary that you said, which I agree, I think Jay said, children's and families. Well,
this is pretty much all this is is children's and families, these programs. Um and I don't see it as similar, and I don't I don't want to use your example, but I will as a statute, right? like you know putting a statute and I agree with you in another city is not going to save a kid's life right because they probably
could have had a hundred swimming lessons I'm guessing for what they paid for that statute right from your city so I agree with you there but this is this particular program is different this is life safety quality of life issues for children's and seniors and we're a civil
society uh I I I see this kind of sort of um almost core core essential cuz I too paid for my grandson's swimming lessons, >> right? But not everybody can do what you and I can do, Troy. And I know you know
that. And that's where we up here to make those decisions, right? How do we find that right balance? Um because that's all we do up here is we we get money at the every year and we disseminate it amongst programs. It could be infrastructure on things that we all feel are important for our
society here in Valuchia County. And I'd like to think that the Boys and Girls Club, the good that they do keeping those kids in after school programs, right, instead of out in the streets, right, for families that can't afford to do paid after school programs because all of this is income um based, you
know, seniors that are by themselves and maybe cannot have their own meal. I know I'm sound like I'm preaching here, but these are quality of life core issues that I would be able to support. As an individual council member, I see that as a priority of ours. I'm all for finding ways to shift and getting public uh
private excuse me private more involved but I and I know chair I agree Troy I recognize that you said fund it this year and I think you said end it for next year. I think those are the words that you use. I recognize that. I'm not even prepared to make that statement to end it for next year. I I want to fund
this. Um and I think as we get into our strategy sessions, I think we're going to start those in January and February. Maybe start talking about how do we get private sector to get more involved. Yes, we have a lot of philanthropists in our community. Maybe they can help us here, too. So, Mr. Chair, I I move that
we approve the program as presented by staff. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilman Santiago moves that we approve the program as uh presented and Vice Chair Reinhardt makes the second. Um Jake Johansson.
>> Thank you, sir. I'd just like to talk a little bit about something that that we use a lot. I even use it. uh is these these people that are starving or hungry or work payday to
payday and and can't afford a home or or can't afford uh much beyond living payday to payday and and and how we have to lower their taxes. But and and we've talked a little bit about
funding these nonprofits and their nonprofits. I see these nonprofits as subcontractors. Uh they they I am giving them money to uh to do something that that we don't want to do ourselves, but they're very
capable of doing. They they are self-funded. We're giving them money to do stuff above and beyond what they what they have the capacity to do by themselves. Thank you very much to those people. So, so we cut this funding and and
your your the folks that pay taxes that are that are middle income, they get a $5 cut in their their fees. The people that make a lot of money get a little bit if if anything. Um um
but the people who are on fixed incomes and living payday to payday, they're not paying much taxes anyhow. So they're not getting much of a break. But what they're not getting is Boys and Girls Club Youth Development
Services. They got to start paying for that because we're not paying for it anymore. Um, uh, Troy and Heather Ken are paying for their grandchildren's, uh, swim lessons, but Bobby and and Jessica in the trenches. They don't do
swim lessons because they can't afford the 45 or $65 that it cost because we didn't pump $2.6 million into the water safety education program. um of all these uh contracts and and uh
folks that were that were supposedly going to give all this money to. Uh there's only two of them I've never heard of before. Uh what why is Easter Seals getting more money than than the YMCA? Well, they probably have the
capacity to do it. That's why um uh I I imagine we'd give them more if they had the capacity to do it. Uh the bottom line for me is that we have a lot of water safety education out there and it's spread around to places where
everybody can get to and the people we are complaining that we care about most are the people who get to use these programs. Shame on us if we're trying to get something for free. uh but but or or
cheap or discounted. But that's for this is for those people, the people in need, the people that are living payday to payday and the people that that work two jobs and they're doing everything they can to keep their family together. and
they need the youth development services of boys and girls, the people that are uh on fixed incomes that are, you know, 65, 75, 85 years old and they need the council for aging for for lunches and dinners. These are the people we're
helping in my opinion. Brad, did you want to say this >> uh um so 47% of our county is considered working poor and we have a large percentage if you compare our county to others part of that reason is an
elevated elderly population. So we have about 30% where other counties have about 15 to 16% as a elderly population. So if you look at the demographics, um, one of the things it's a request for proposals, council member Kent. So
that's why they're separate. That organization will look at their capacity and and and submit a proposal based on that. >> Councilman Robbins, Jake, we're done. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Chair, and and and just try to close this up on on my end. And
that's why I brought up item F on on the uh consent agenda too because you know uh car repair uh roof uh and some of these other safety nets, right? Should we be doing this out of the general fund when
there's a million other societal programs that but we can't be everything to everybody. We just have to I think chairman narrow that down. um government is not the answer
uh to to all of our problems. It's it's it's probably worse. Um so, you know, I think uh chairman, you're you're on the right track, Troy as well. Uh David, and let's
chairman, would you consider I mean, one of us can make the motion or I could probably make the motion. just have uh staff uh bring >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Or or or propo >> or a separate motion or proposal to uh
between now and uh when this comes back up hopefully way beforehand uh before they get into their budgets and stuff. So maybe um uh get us a menu where we can break this down, see what the core is, come together and pick them out off
off the menu or a phased approach, you know, if if if that's what council desires. Um, but I think there's other ways to do this, but I I need to know more about some of these services because some of them do have have value because if not
going to be in our jail, you know, in some cases costing us a lot more money tying up our deputies or emergency services. So, um, we can look at it. I'm I'm good uh doing that. And um and then
two at a later date have we can have staff come back and say or we can ask them bring back all the nonprofits that we general fundwide all the nonprofits. Let's see what let's see where they're all at, right? And get a big list and
and then go through them. You know, it's the only way to really do it in my opinion. So >> Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah, I agree with you, Danny. I I really want to do a deep dive into these programs. I mean, I see
some of them like like I mentioned earlier, Council on Aging for Transportation, 47,000. We've got summer camp scholarships of 358,000. You know, the swimming programs for the children for the number of people served and the cost, it averages like to 5.84
per person. So, I I just I want to approve at this time, but I do want to examine it in the near future for for just what we talked about. Thanks. >> Thank you. Uh, County Manager George Rectenwald. >> Yeah, exactly. Thank you for the input
and and just remind everybody yes that is actually the uh upcoming workshop in January was if you recall was to dive into what the core needs are so that we can start off kind of with that uh that
direction and then we'll go off and things like this we'll come back to you uh once we know what the further direction is then we will through the year build the budget around those items. So again, this is obviously going to be something that'll be talked about and uh once we get that kind of
direction in January, then you'll see it uh through the budget process of where we go. So, and I'm sure this won't be the only item because if we look at our general fund, which is uh just off the top of my head in the middle 300 million
dollar range, could even be 400 at this point, I got off the top of my head. But at the end of the day, uh that's where you know you have the most control and where we'll be looking at uh where we go for the following season.
>> Thank you. Uh I've already had two times to speak. I'm going to call for the vote, but I just want to end it by saying this. I really appreciate the uh the conversation from from every one of you. I know you didn't expect this and you and you might not have appreciated it, but I think it what we've laid out
here is that it's it's almost impossible for government to ever end a program and cut spending. It's really really hard. I can look out into the crowd and I see the faces. They think I'm crazy and
heartless and and a scumbag and I'm I'm sorry about that. Um Jake, I'm not just looking at 47% of our population is the working poor. Um I'm not looking at saving somebody's $5. Um all those
people pay property taxes in their rent. All of them are are faced with economic hardships that they don't know how they're going to make. But I'm also thinking about the people that make $200,000 a year, own a a beautiful home
and their city taxes just went up. We had a tiny tax rates in my description. That's not what I'm hearing from the public, but we had our own tax increase. We have to start working on it. And I there's not a single program in here.
I'm looking at a friend from the Boys and and Girls Club that I want to I don't want to see that go away. They add value. There's no doubt about that. But I'm not willing. I think it's immoral for us to take money from other families
as a and give it as a donation to some. I think they can stand on their own and will whenever um whenever they are asked to. So um with that Carissa would you call the role please? The motion on the
table is to approve as presented. you have public participation. >> I'm sorry. We do and probably more. >> Okay. Uh Tammy uh Cumins and then Chelsea Dulof.
Okay. Yes. So, I don't speak publicly very often. Sorry. Time for making change. This is my first year being >> You pull a microphone. That's all right. There you go. >> Take your time. You're fine.
>> This is my first year of being and making change for drawing for vention. I don't speak publicly or do a lot of that stuff. I'm usually in the background. But we were able to provide funding for 23 kids
with 5,000 maybe a little bit more dollars. This year we had about 27 $2,700 given to us from the public and that's with going out and putting little change boxes in restaurants. Ace Hardware going to um
bike week putting out change boxes because it's making change for drowning prevention. Those 23 kids could have cost the county over $23 million because you have the fire engines, the hospitals, the chiefs, the search, the
rescue dogs. All of that adds up to about that much money. I donate all my time. My time is worth $75 an hour because I'm an accountant. But I'm here today on my dollar helping
children get money to not drown. It's not just about the swimming lessons, about the community. And I have a person that we pay to stay in the water from about 8:00 in the morning till about maybe 6:00 at night teaching those
children how to not drown. Not drowned. Drowning prevention. You teach them how to get in the water if they fall in. I'm sure you've watched your granddaughter fall in the pool or your grandson fall in the pool and being able to swim out. My granddaughter's three years old. We
didn't pay for her stuff. Her parents did. They didn't get a scholarship. But I've seen 23 kids not drown. And there's more that come from all the other um venues, nonprofits that we try to
make up. I don't I don't want to go ask for $10 million. I grew up very poor. We just want enough to save kids, save adults, save families from having to go to the hospital, see their kid
connected to tubes, not not not being able to get out of the car and watch your neurode divergent child run for the lake and know that he's going to fall in and drown and grab to a tree, which has happened in Valuchia County, Semino County, and all
the counties in Florida. We just want to save them and not cost the county's money to do it. We work really hard to get We're just We're just a small piece of the pie. That's all we're trying to do is save one child at a time with a small piece
of pie. Some classes cost $700. We pay $250 to a scholarship for a parent to save their child. >> Thank you. You You are a great public speaker. Thank you,
>> Chelsea Doolof, followed by Roy Young. Good afternoon, council members. My name is Chelsea Doolhoff and I've lived in Valuchia County for nine years. I'm here today as a resident who cares deeply about how our local dollars are being spent, especially when it comes to
families in crisis. I recently became aware of the funding decisions made through the children and families advisory board and I have concerns about the way the money is being allocated particularly how much is going towards administration and case management rather than direct services like food,
rent or utility support. These are basic needs and in a time when so many families are struggling, I think we owe it to the public to make sure the majority of the funds go where they're most urgently needed. It's also unclear to me how organizations were selected and whether those with the strongest
history of serving people here in Valuchia County were prioritized. That's not to discredit any organization, but I believe there should be a clear and fair process that puts service history and outcomes first. As a citizen, I'm simply asking for transparency, accountability,
and a commitment to making sure public funds are being used in the most effective way for our local families. Thank you for listening and thanks for your service to his community. >> Thank you for your comments, >> Roy Young. >> Good afternoon. After all, the morning
is gone. Uh Rory Young. I'm the executive director at Halifax Urban Ministries. We receive a very small portion uh of the CFAB money to be able to offer homelessness prevention. That means
helping once a year pay utilities, rent, uh case management services. Um we make very good use of the money. 94 cents of every dollar goes directly to services, not to case management, not to
transportation, not to administrative staff. I was specifically brought on as executive director to change exactly what you're talking about, to change our dependency on uh grant dollars. Uh right now we're about 65 or so percent uh
grant dollars as opposed to private funding. Uh my goal over the next two years is to make it at least 50/50. With that said, we're a faith-based organization. We rely heavily on other faith-based organizations. I've seen many of you out in the community at one
time or another uh and your organizations uh help to to fund some of our programs. Uh I believe that the model that you're proposing would be successful. I just ask for your approval today and for uh some time to be able to
to ramp up properly. Each year we've received less funds. Each year we raise more money through private um private donations. Uh last Sunday for example uh you know the large large cube trucks with the refrigeration on the top. We
filled two of those going to five different churches and the local realy pros office. Everybody was very kind. But that was for increased services not for maintaining services where they are. Uh and my fear is that over this next
year without food subsidies, we're going to see a lot more homeless people and therefore much more expense uh in and around getting those people back into housing and retrained and and jobs. Most of the people in our shelter are
families, veterans, at risk youth that have aged out of foster care. Uh and there are people that need our help. They missteped. They didn't plan properly. whatever their car broke down. Uh you can tell yourself exactly what you want uh to hear, but the fact of the
matter is we have three families right now in our one shelter. They get up every morning and they go to work and they can't make ends meet because they're paid minimum wage and all of this luxury housing that is going up on LPGA. What does it cost? $1,800 for a
two-bedroom, right? And after you get evicted, nobody's going to rent to you. And so these subsidies allow us to keep agreements with landlords to keep people in their houses so they're not on the street where they're going to cost us 15 or 20 times what it does to help them
get a break once a month during the year. Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Uh John Nicholson There's a phrase, oh sorry, John Nicholson Bside. There's a phrase, pennywise, pound foolish.
There's another phrase, been there, done that. What you're going through now, uh, the city of Daytona Beach did 20 years ago. But Astra was so proud of saying, we can roll back again. Seven years in a row, roll back. We get a new city
manager. We get a 27% tax increase. You've heard me talk about it before. That's what I'm worried about. We went through all of our budgets. Took three days. Well, these magazines. Well, it's $17
for magazines. We'll cut that out. Little penny things that just you didn't realize added up, which is what I think you're doing. You're trying to look through it to try to cut the fat, but you're not cutting the fat. You're
cutting what I believe you're going to eventually find out is your core. Now, you're going to have a meeting in two months or three months to determine what are your core responsibilities. And right now, you're cutting before you even know what you're cutting.
What is your core? What are your core responsibilities? You know, I have a degree in history. And so, I look back history. What has happened in the past? The Roman Empire fell. All right. I'm Roman right Catholic. So at the time
Catholics controlled Italy. What happens when there's no more government? Who runs the water? Who runs the aqueduct? Who runs the streets? Who does what? So the church stepped in and never stepped out. And you're talking about
once you get on the government dole, it's hard to get off. Well, that's what happened. So this I've seen this history with the city of Daytona Beach with my church. You're between a rock and a hard place. But the question is, you've got to find out, I believe, what your core
responsibilities are. You can ask Matt. We talked about what happens with First Step Shelter if it goes away. How much is the county saving when they put up that $400,000 a year
from repetition of people going to the county jail over and over again? It's $111 or so every time they show up needlessly and it's cost $27 if they go into first step shelter. It's a savings. So to me, you have to know where you're
coming from first. What what do you have to have? You have to have a roof over your head. You have to have food. Those things are basics. And when you talk about uh charities, a lot of the things that are nonprofits
are nonprofits because government wasn't doing it. It doesn't mean it wasn't needed. It was the government didn't care to do it or didn't have the funds to do it. These things are important and I think you need to judge what's important
before you start cutting. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much uh everyone for your comments. Um it's important hear from the public. Uh Cararissa, would you call the role on item 11? The motion is that we approve the uh
children and family advisory board allocations as presented and I believe it was with no adjustment in sight. Okay. >> Mr. Johansson. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kent. >> Yes. >> Mr. Reinhardt.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Robbins. Yes, >> Mr. Santiago. >> Yes, >> Mr. Dempsey. >> Yes, >> Mr. Brower. >> Uh, no. And the uh motion carries 6 to1.
And it's 12:13. Why don't we take uh a lunch break until 1 p.m.? Pardon? [Music]
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That guy. Okay, we'll we will resume the November 4th Fuchsia County Council meeting at 102 and we're on item 12 and Director Bartlett is going to tell us about the first year's results of Park Valuchia.
>> Yes, sir. Thank you very much. Uh Mr. Chair, council members Ben Bartlet, Valuchia County Public Works Director. Um, as you stated, um, part of the implementation of the Park Valuchia program was that we would come back to you all with a summary and kind of a
update as to how that program went during the first year and then towards the end we're going to ask for some uh direction moving forward. So the first slide is is kind of a summary of all the the uh infrastructure that was implemented and and everything that we
uh put in during this uh implementation process. All of our off- beach lots, we have 72% of our off- beach parking spaces are covered by license plate recognition cameras. Um they're also uh managing the uh entrances to our inlet parks. Um but the main thing I want to
stress um and it's really, you know, I don't want to bury the lead, but um you know, part of this was implemented with the thinking that we would see an increase in revenue associated with our beach program. And I know we've had discussions during the budget process
about what those numbers were and how and and we might have overestimated a little bit on that revenue, but I will say uh we got some good news compared to what we were talking about during the budget. We're looking at a 1.4 million in dollar increase in the net revenue. That's after all our costs versus the
previous fiscal year, which actually represents about a 67% increase in net revenue over the previous year. So this is gross revenue. This is not net revenue. This is before we take out the cost of the program. And you can see the on beach revenue and the
offbeat revenue there. Um so we're we're looking at um just over uh $10 million in total revenue. And then this is a chart that kind of shows what we're seeing in terms of off- beach and on beach revenue through the throughout the the previous fiscal year
in terms of uh on beach off beach through the month. And then this is a comparison of the gross revenue um compared to the previous fiscal year when we just were charging on beach tolls and did not have the off- beach uh parking revenue that we're seeing. So let's talk a little bit about our
off- beach parking uh program. This is the timeline as far as when we awarded the contract all the way through to the installation of all the LPR uh cameras in the larger lots and then in the smaller lots we have a individual uh enforcement officers that go through
and check um with cameras. So rehash the pricing structure a daily pass to park in one of the off beach lots if you're not a resident is $20. you can purchase in a visitor pass for 100 and then uh residents and hand and those with handicap placards are parking is
complimentary. I will say one of the great things about this program is the amount of data that we're able to now collect on not just people getting on the beach but also those using our parking lots. This is the parking lot data is something we did not have before. A lot of our estimates were
based on historical trends throughout the state as well as new Simrna's for lots that they utilize. But we're seeing just under 500,000 total entries, individual entries. And this is just our LPR lots. Um, and to be clear, that's folks that come in and actually stay
long enough to either park and pay for parking or were issued a citations. A lot of people will pull in, maybe they drop off a cooler and they're out in 10 minutes, or they pull in and there's not a spot and they can pull out. So, there's a grace period there where people can pull in and not park and not have to pay. mainly because we don't
want them we want to make sure they're actually parking and utilizing the lot. Of those 465,000 individual entries, uh 130,000 of those were day pass payments. So those are folks that paid the $20. The rest were majority overwhelming majority uh resident passes and then
obviously we have a few annual visitor passes that were utilized as well. Now we are issuing citations for folks who do not pay when they utilize lots. Um the uh pie chart shows our compliance rate. We're getting about 90.5% compliance rate. Uh 9.5% non uh
violators of the of the uh parking ordinance. In other words, they pull in, they don't pay. Uh we issued 44,700 and change uh valid citations. And in looking at those citations, um out of the 44,000 around 9,000 were appealed.
Uh about half of those were uh the appeals were upheld. In other words, the person was refunded. Um, we did have about another stat that I'd like to point out is we had about 2 2400 folks that were residents that got a citation and immediately registered as residents
afterward and their citations were were waved. So, all in all, um, we had about 5,000 what we call invalid citations, which are citations that were either upheld through the appeals process or we noticed an issue with an officer one in
our nonLPR lots. there was an issue there. Now, those invalid citations could be a number of things. It could be someone who paid that day and maybe entered their own license plate incorrectly and if they were to show a valid uh payment and maybe their license plate digit was oneoff, we would go ahead and wave the citation and note
that they paid. Some of them, the LPR camera might have picked up a seven instead of a one or something like that. But the point I'm trying to make is that of those 5,000 citations that were issued in in some sort of error, whether it be uh on us or on the user, that represents about 1% of the total amount
of people utilizing those lots. So, it's a pretty low number, not perfect, and we're hoping to improve that as we go forward, but we're thinking people are getting the hang of parking in these lots and and registering as residents. And this is just a chart that shows uh the number of citations issued versus
the revenue collected. Um, I will note that the industry standard in terms of number of citations and recovering those funds is about 70%, so 70% of the citations issued, you get those folks to pay the the fee and and the fine. Um, right now we're about 50%, but we're
looking to increase and increase that percentage and get it up closer to that 70%. And then this is the amount of revenue we've seen versus the amount of outstanding revenue on a month-to-month basis. As you can see, it peaked around March and April. Even though the off beach parking program went into effect
in January, when do people really start going to the beach? It's right around that springtime. And that's when we saw uh the citations peak. And then as the summer months went on and people got used to the program, our compliance rate went up. So that's off beach, on beach. Now, we've always had an on beach access
pro uh toll program. Um, but this park valution program we're looking to move towards automation to where we can have all the ramps open all the time. Um, and then we're still going to have at our larger ramps a hybrid approach where you can get on kind of an express way to get on through the automation or if you want
to pay through a toll taker, we'll have that available as well. And we're looking to by the end of December have all of our ramps fully automated except for the ones that are currently under rebuild status due to uh hurricane repairs. On beach access um as far as the paying
structure, if you recall, we we uh increased the daily pass to $30, visitor pass to buck 50. residents are no additional charge um for on beach access and uh handicap those with a valid handicap placard get complimentary entry
as well. Pie chart on the right you know 40% of the folks accessing the beach are residents and uh 33% are the daily beach pass users those are paying the $30 and then we have visitor permits and uh percentages associated with those with
valid handicap placards. One interesting note is we have about 70,000 and change less total entries onto the beach. So I would attribute that to a couple of factors. One, we had a hurricane and two months two to three months of the beach
was almost inaccessible. We're also seeing a general downturn in the overall tourism in in the state. And then also with our uh the situation with the tides and the uh the beach itself, we're seeing less time available for driving. So that kind of speaks to the the total
entries. But when you when you look at some other data, total resident permits, so in the year previous when it was $25 for an annual resident permit, we had about 46,000 people that signed up and paid the $25.
Um, this year we had 137,000 residents sign up. And out of those 137,000, 88,000 used their vehicle that they signed up to get on the beach. So almost double the amount of resident access residents accessing the beach. Um the
difference in that number 137 to 88 is about 49,000. Out of that 49, 7,000 folks use their resident pass to access or off beach. That left about 42,000 people that signed vehicles up and never actually used them to access the beach or the parking lot. total visitor
permits was down by about 3,000 and change. But I will note because we increased the the cost associated with that, the revenue from visitor permits was up. And the same with the total on beach daily beach passes uh was down about 40,000, but because we increased
the fee from 20 to 30, the overall revenue from that particular um act uh pass was up as well. on beach revenue fiscal year 25 versus 24. You can see the green is 25. In almost all the
months it was uh higher, slightly higher. Total on beach revenue uh in 24 was about $300,000 less than it was in 25. And again, keep in mind that's 70,000 less folks uh getting on the beach in total. So, one interesting
trend we're seeing and and this is something I've heard um since I've been public works director and and and worked closely with our coastal staff is, you know, a lot of the residents, one of their biggest complaints is the beach is very crowded. It's crowded with day trippers from Orlando and and other
places. And the trend we're seeing with this data is you're getting more residents on the beach and it's slightly less crowded. So it kind of addresses some of those concerns that folks have and we're making more money at the same time. Yes, sir.
So that kind of sums up the the the program in the first year with some of the data we're seeing and some of the important things I wanted to address. We do need some direction from council. If you recall uh when this uh program was implemented, there was a sunset on the
$25 annual resident pass. Um, in other words, if this council doesn't take action, it would revert back to costing $25 for residents for an annual pass. Um, we need to know from council if you all want to keep that at zero or you want to allow to revert back to 25. So,
we would if you do want it to stay at zero, we would come back at a a meeting here shortly and provide an alteration to the beach code to keep it at zero. Um the citation dismissal for residents who register immediately after their violation. This is something it peaked
early and then dwindled down but you know someone might change their license plate or get a new car. Is this something the council wants us to continue? Basically if a resident, hey resident calls, I thought it was free. Why' I get a citation? Sir, your car is not registered with us and they register
right away. We can wave the citation if you want us to continue that or not. One other thing that came up that we didn't really think about, it happens on these things is folks who are issued citations, they requested a payment plan. Uh that's not something that was
authorized initially. We don't have a problem with it. I think it's another way to collect that citation revenue. So, we're we're okay with that. I added this um item in here because it was noted in the audit for the uh uh ocean center parking cashless day passes. So,
we do take cash still. Uh, off beach is completely cashless. On beach, we do take cash. Um, as we move towards full automation, we're going to have very few ramps that have toll attendants. That's the only place you'll be able to pay with cash. Um, I think from a staff
perspective, we recommend keeping that area. You know, you catch the tourist that's in town and decides, hey, I want to go drive on the beach and they pull up and they got the $30 in cash. We don't want to turn them away. We think that's something that we can manage. we have good procedures in place for dealing with the cash and making sure uh
we're preventing the fraud. Um and then lastly, resident renewals. So, how do you want us to move forward on resident renewals? Do we want folks to log in once a year and review their information and make sure they're still residents? You know, if you get somebody that moves out of the
county, um do we want to verify that they're still a county resident? Um we're still working on the database with the state. There's some issues with that. We're hoping to get that um hopefully settled um at some point, but right now we still require folks to
provide documents. Is it something where they log in once a year, check a box saying they're still a resident? Maybe every couple years or three years they re they re-upload their documents completely up to the council. I know there's interest in making this as seamless and easy as possible on our
residents to make sure that they can access the beach uh for free. So with that, I'll turn it over to you all with any questions you might have or uh any direction you want to provide on these items. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Uh questions.
David Santiago. >> So with the new dog beach, if we registered the dogs, could we get more revenue? >> I'm not going to speak to that. I think that dog registering the dogs was discussed at length when we did the dog. >> I know. I know. I lost that battle. Um,
no. So, on the um the renewals, I I just want to say, yeah, I think you you mentioned I had already pressed my button on the renewals because I know the yearly thing doesn't work out with the whole data database thing in the state and it's it's costly. Um, but the two to three years, I think is is a solution for for people because we don't
want them to register every year. >> Yeah. One one thing we did notice, and I forgot to mention this, I apologize, is with the amount of increased the increased amount of residents going in and registering, it prompted them to see if they wanted the annual inlet park pass because you still have to pay for
that. And a lot of folks, we saw an increase in the amount of people that signed up for that. So, most of those folks would have to come in there once a year and renew that if they chose. So, you know, they're coming back to look at their their account typically every year. So,
>> so you need direction from us today on a couple items, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Councilman Kent. >> Chairman, I don't have any questions. Mine are just comments. >> Anybody else have a a question first? Matt. >> Thank you, Chair.
>> Thank you. Um, Ben, the beach reourishment, could that have an impact also on the attendance that project? >> I'm just curious on that. No, not really. >> No. Yeah. Yeah, I mean we were still letting people access the beach. They did it in such a way that
>> just a different location. Okay. All right. So, I didn't know if it turned anybody off from it. And of course, you don't know. >> I mean, there might have been the occasional oneoff, but I mean, for the most part, that's good to hear. >> They they worked hard to to to ensure we we kept access. I appreciate that. And Tide did, just so you know, Matt, cuz I went to go use my pass for the first
time and I could not get on the beach. >> The water was way up there. is a legitimate reason we saw probably less folks >> the process for projections. You know, we did that before and we talked about well we had
projected getting so much money and we didn't and I and I'll admit Mr. Ken I was I was kind of stuck on that but you know what revenue is revenue so I'm looking at that now. So um but yeah I mean I I kind of planned budgets in the
past based on projections and projections are important. What process did we use in order to make those projections? >> So, we had a consultant, parking consultant. I will admit that parking is not something I'm >> Well, we're new to it. >> Familiar with it. >> Um, but we had a we had a a consultant
that we brought in to look at it. We looked at >> other areas of the state and we looked at we had good data on New Simra Beach's four lots. Now, New Simrna is probably an outlier in terms of they're really it's a really popular part of the beach, so they're going to
see a lot of folks. Their lots are are full. And we tried to be conservative when we looked at those numbers. Um, >> so to your point, I think we overestimated what the offbeat revenue was, >> but now moving forward, we we have actual data
>> and to your point, as far as revenue is revenue, it is still a a 60 plus% increase in >> which is huge. That's good. Especially with what cost I I get it. And the last question I had, you talked about uh some of the larger ramps will have both cash and LPRs.
Will there be signage to that effect? Because you know here and I just see congestion is you're pulling up to a ramp and realize that all I have is cash, but it's an LPR. >> Well, there there will be like an express lane where it's automated and there'll be an LPR that sees your license plate. You're registered and you get right on. The arm opens, lets you
on. Yeah. Then there'll be a lot with a toll attendant. So you can either pay with cash or a credit card or >> at specific locations. I'm talking about is there going to be signage available at the location ramps? Yes. They will be it will be >> so they know they can turn around real quick without causing congestion on A1A.
>> Correct. It'll be clear like you have to have purchased your pass already and you know either the day pass online so your license plates in the system or whatever. So as long as your license plates in that system through a day pass or an annual pass when you pull up to the automated ramp it'll let you in. There will be clear signs. We don't want
again we we don't want folks turning. >> I don't want backing up. I mean, the whole idea about LPRs is that we'd have that through traffic without backing up traffic on A1A on your busier beach days. >> And I don't want to see that happen as a result of somebody saying, "Well, I didn't know which ramp to go to." You know, >> we're very sensitive to backing up and
and having those ramps become clogged. We're trying to get people. >> Jessica's ready to yell at me for something. >> I All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Jake, did you have a question? Yes, sir. >> Ben, I I know that that when we first
started this, we talked about the the state requirement and the the buy down of the residential and Paulo stands up. What does the revenue that we made on this
program solve that problem or are we still buying down our our uh our residential uh cost? >> Yeah, because of the the the way the um beach code is structured, it has to be uniform. So from an accounting
perspective, I don't see Ryan in here. I'll speak speak for him, but he'll come running in here if I say something wrong. From a county perspective, yes, it's still a buy down of the uh the beach pass. Correct. >> And And where does that money come from?
>> General fund. >> General fund. Yeah. >> Subsidizes still $17 million. >> I guess we're having these conversations about about spending general fund money and and taxpayer money to to give to people. And and here's another item that
that that we somewhat use general fund money to to pay uh uh to pay down for people that have a a a quality of life issue. Maybe not maybe not a coral responsibility issue. I just want to be >> Now you're in trouble. Like you said,
Beetlejuice. I want to clearly understand that if we're going to if we're going to stand by that that that u that kind of policy that we're talking about that we were clear here. Thanks Ryan. >> Yeah. With the uh the uniformity requirements of the charter, we are
required to contribute from the general fund the same amount that would have been contributed if we had charged them. So the annual pass is $150 for on beach. So there's 88,000 somewhere around there rounded number of uh residents that
actually used the beach and re they registered and used it. So we will be required to contribute 13 million. The actual subsidy is 17 million. So we're under we're that requirement didn't really trigger any additional contribution that would have been required other than the fact that the
beach requires subsidy to run anyway. >> Got it. So, so, so there are taxpayers that don't use the beach that are paying so us, those of us that use the beach can get on the beach for free or or used
to be for a small cost, now for free. >> And and just real quick, surf, I would note if you were to revert back to what the previous um $25 for an annual pass, I would imagine you wouldn't get 88,000 folks or 137,000 folks sign up, right?
If you went by the previous year's number, you're probably looking at a revenue of about $1.2 million. >> Got it. So, it's it's cost effective still to do it this way, even though we're still charging. The only way to to go back to what I'm talking about is to
charge people $150 basically to to get on the beach a year so we don't have to buy out of the general fund. All right. Thank you. Just a couple um quick questions. You first I want to
take issue with what he just said and and Ryan can straighten me out if I'm I'm wrong, but I think it's an important point. Every time I hear free beach, it kind of makes me cringe. The the beach has never been free. We've always paid for it uh in property taxes and then we
added an extra charge to get on the beach to get to parks. Um, so yeah, everybody in the public is is paying for the beach just through property taxes as as well. Um, is that
true or false? Ryan, >> at current, the beach requires $17 million a year of general fund contributions, which is mostly from property taxes. >> Is this a recording? >> Yes. >> Good. See, this is why we need you because you have real figures and and
they're not >> and that includes beach safety, coastal, >> okay, >> marine science center, the turtle, uh, environmental, all those things that contribute to >> I um my my main question is you said tourism was down. Does that is it
possible that's because all the tourists have moved here? >> I can't speak to that, sir. >> Okay. the uh you said $10 million total revenue. I want to make sure I heard this right. $1.6 million we kept. Does that means $8.4 million?
>> No, sir. That was $1.4 million additional net revenue. Okay. >> So, we had revenue prior to that. >> What are the expenses? >> It's about half. It's about 50% of the program. >> Well, that it was expensive the first year because we put all the technology in. Will that go down now each year?
We're we're we're working on that. As we as we see automation as the automation increase, we have less toll takers. We anticipate those costs coming down. >> Okay. Good. All right. That's all the questions that that I had. Uh so we'll
go back uh to some debate and then we'll Where'd he go? Then we'll answer uh your five questions or however much you had. Uh Councilman Kent. Thank you, chairman and council. Thank you for
allowing us to do this and try this out. Uh I mean that um deep down in my heart. I'm I'm really appreciative that you you had faith to give it a try. And you know, it's interesting that you mentioned that one of the things that
you heard from residents was that certain times of the year and certain parts of the beach were were too crowded. They didn't like that. and now 130 some odd thousand resident passes issued but over 80,000 residents accessing the beach with those passes.
So double the amount almost from the year prior of local residents and I that rings true with me because out of spite I would not buy a pass for years because I felt like I'm already paying for that
beach and my property taxes. Why are you hitting me again with it? And I think a lot of residents felt that way. And I'll just remind the council those individuals coming to the beach and and even from, you know, beachside like me, but you know, David from Deltona or
Dandon, those residents are coming to the beach. They've already paid for the beach and their property taxes, but now that they're there, they're trying out a new restaurant. They're buying a float at a at a sundry shop over there. you know, they're going and doing other
things. And I found it very interesting that the park passes, there was a big uptick in those as well. And I think that's just we have John Nicholson says it, but he and I agree with him on this even though, you know, we've been
disagreeing a little bit lately, but that's okay. The beach is the draw in Valuchia County. It just, you know, there's other a lot of other things to do, but that beach is incredible and and it certainly is is a draw. Implementing
a new program is not easy. Um, and I'm appreciative of not only staff, but our vendor for working through those kinks that we had. But you've got some questions before us, and I just want to tell the council where I am with it. Um,
resident pricing beyond January 2026. I'd like to keep it exactly where it is, which is no extra charge because we're already charging them. They're paying for it in their property taxes. But >> hey, Troy, can I interrupt you? Make those motions. Make that in the motion one.
>> Sure. Um I I'll go through it all and then I'll make it in one big motion. >> Yeah, I was going to go down the list and let's build one. >> Okay. So I'm I'm for and it's it's just and it's fantastic that we brought in more revenue and what did you say was it
67% increase? Yes, sir. >> Mentioned that. What was that, Ben? >> 67% increase in net revenue over the pre uh previous fiscal year. >> Yeah. As far as the citation dismissal for residents who registered after violation, that's just being a good neighbor and we absolutely need to continue to do that. Authorized payment
plans on on citations. Yes, I don't have a problem with that. I think you're right. It helps us collect the money that's owed. Um cashless daily pass sales. Um I also agree with staff that where we have the hybrid that we should accept the cash. I think that there are
processes in place that separate this vendor from the vendor at the ocean center and um it's something that we can check with our checks and balances. So I'm okay with that. Resident renewals. I agree with David. I think it's it has to be every two to three years. Uh but every year it's just it's cumbersome.
It's problematic and I want this to be as seamless and easy for our constituents, our bosses. I want them to be able to access their beach as easy as possible. So, um I will I will put all of that into a motion now that resident
pricing beyond January 2026 stays at no extra charge, which is zero currently. Citation dismissal for residents who registered after violation. Yes. >> Sir, may I make one suggestion? >> Yes. Would you be okay if we offer like
if someone gets a citation and then says they're going to register or like we we allow them one shot at it or do you want to multiple bites at the apple line? >> I think one shot is appropriate. I I do. Y'all okay with that? Okay. And then uh authorizing the payment plans on
citations, allowing cash to be taken at the hybrid locations and resident renewals. What do you all feel comfortable with? Two or three years? >> Three. >> Three years. Okay, I see three popping up. Three years. Everybody's okay with that. >> But with that, with that, just so understand how it would work, and I'm
going to glance over it when I say this. We would require folks to upload their resident docs every three years. >> How will we remind them? >> We will send them an email and let them know probably a month or month or so out. >> And our social media
>> and our social media will get out there. Everybody will have a different date, but we can pre I'll be happy to work with Michael Ryan and make sure everybody knows, hey, beach season's coming up. Make sure you're Yes. You know, make sure you're all registered and everything like that. Get the word out. Sort of like we've got pictures of
the spider out there. And I gave credit, by the way, to Michael Ryan's group for those pictures of that spider. And that was actually your group. So, I take back all the praise for Michael Ryan and I give it all back to you. >> I'm sure he'll appreciate that. >> Sorry, Michael. Look at him. He's upset. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, the are the renewals. >> Yes, sir. >> Are they automatic through the software through the program? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. If you registered as a resident >> and we set it at three years at three years from the date of their original registration,
>> they will get a prompt saying, "Hey, you need to log back in and and and >> 30 days, 60 days ahead of time when >> um we we can do whatever. We've been doing 30. We I I think the more lead time the better. Quite honestly, we've got a an elderly
population, you know, in Valuch County. We heard about it earlier. And I think, you know, I think a 60-day and a 30-day I think is is is appropriate. Easy. We can do it. Good. So, two of them. >> And Mr. Chair, if I could just for for everyone who might be listening or as we
communicate, if you get a new license plate because I think every so many years you're required to get a new license plate, you have to reregister the new license plate because we go by the tag number. So, that is also something we're communicating to people. But >> Michael Ryan, did you you picked up on
you picked up on that? So, that's a big piece of that communication thing is that that is out there out front so people know because that's going to be a problem is I got a new license plate. I was registered. You've hit me with a ticket. >> Right. >> And and we and we want to we want to be kind with our residents. We want to be
soft with them. >> Yeah. We want them to utilize the program. And I think, you know, as we get in, you saw the citation when you know March, April, we can do a messaging campaign, you know, remind residents, hey, go check your park val. >> Perfect. Chairman, anything else you
need for my motion? >> I did. Did we get the difference between resident renewals and residents reverification interval? >> No, we didn't. So, let's talk about that. >> So, it was just it was one and the same. I just split them. So, resident renewal if way you've got worded your motion,
we'll auto every, you know, until that third year, then they have to log back in >> and upload their documentation. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And are we still going to have uh one or two locations for people to go in person? Yeah, we still have two We still have two locations. >> Okay. >> All right. Then you just built a motion
that says keep it same. Yes. Yes. Yes. In three years. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. Chairman, >> I'll second that. Thank you. >> Motion by Councilman K. >> We're not doing cashless. We're still >> correct. No, we're not doing cashless only. We're allowing at those hybrid
locations to take the $30 from the visitors that are here and they want to drive on the beach. >> Yes, sir. Got it. Okay. But then this is this Paulo this has to come back for a supermajority vote >> three-fifths vote of of council presence
because you are uh changing the on beach access right >> so that's that'll be uh when we come back with an ordinance >> when is this coming back >> uh I can do it either December or January >> sooner the better >> well aim for December
>> so polo you're saying he needs some westside representative votes you You know it. >> Got to talk about some parks or don't we done? We have to talk about some >> That's right. >> Tell me what you guys need over there. >> So, about that inmate farm second phase. >> Just kidding. >> I got you, man. We're going to bring
those bees over there, Matt. You know it. >> Okay. So, we've got a motion on the floor to keep resident pricing beyond January 2026 the same. Citation dismissal for residents who registered after violation. Yes. Authorized payment
plans on citations. Yes. Cashless daily pass sales on beach and inlet parks. >> We're allowing cash. >> Yes. Um resident uh renewals every uh three years with the
>> Any other questions on that discussion? All in favor of the motion you need a second. >> I got to say I did second. >> I apologize. Sorry. >> Jeez. Oh said something to me. It wasn't me. Second one's by Councilman Santiago with
a motion by Troy K. I should have repeated that. Uh and all in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> And part Valuchia is renewed. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you sir.
>> Okay. And that takes us to uh let's see we didn't have any public for that did we know. Item 13, a discussion of placement of charter amendment. Question regarding elements of a rural growth boundary. Um
uh you're going to carry this one >> uh for a portion of it. Yes. >> For Okay. >> Mr. Chairman, can I chime in real quick if I don't mind? If you don't mind. >> Yes, chime in. Um, I was wondering the council, um, not just specifically this
topic, if if if we could consider an approach to have a meeting topic to discuss all potential charter um, uh, what's the word? >> Amendments. >> Amendments. Thank you. Um, instead of just peacemailing them, maybe we could
just have a dedicated topic saying these were even a workshop to talk about what county council related. I'm not opposed to discussing this one, but I >> Okay. >> I think we should have one meeting just talk about any ideas of charter review, including this one >> that comes just from the council. Correct.
>> Not through the committee. >> Correct. >> Okay. That's >> So I just that's that's a good idea. >> And then just cover them all in one meeting. That's why I would prefer. >> I tell you why I put this on and why I wanted to discuss it because it's a little fuzzy because it's Senate Bill 180. So, I wanted to get the attorneys
to tell us what parts we could do, what parts we couldn't. And the most important thing to me, because I I think they've uh I I think we can do it, is to um work some changes on the uh uh
annexation process in Florida and and that is not prevented by Senate Bill 18. >> Yes. So, um >> yes, it is or yes, it's >> Yes, I'm correct. In our view, the uh exclusive method of voluntary annexation is not affected by SB180. Um that
remains an authority of a charter county. Um so if you would like me to go through and explain basically kind of here's your legal options at this point in time take into account all of the the statutory um restrictions. We can go for
that. Um, and then the harder question is going to be policy related want to proceed forward. There's a lot of options and a lot of levers and a lot of considerations for county council to um consider if you want to put a charter
amendment um regarding voluntary annexations. >> Correct. >> A lot of options. I think Jake has a question, but before I let you go, I I would like to hear that and if you would weave into that, um, just so that we know, is there is it possible to do a
charter amendment that's retroactive that would produce a rural boundary agreement even though Senate Bill 180 prohibits it now? So in the year and a half, two years before it's passed, um >> that would be a no because SP80, you
know, has a very large effect. It prevents you from proposing any like it's not just enacting or adopting, it's that proposal. >> So we need to amend Senate Bill 18. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, Councilman Johansson, >> the only thing I was going to answer is
I think the rural boundary is a little bit different than the rest of the possible charter because we agreed to kick the can a few months a few months ago and and we're actually past that date. So, uh, you know, we kind of all agreed to bring it up with enough time.
So, I I I think this one is uh is worth talking about today and and we can do the rest and the others uh at another time. Sure. So, great. I'll do the initial presentation. Um, and I'll stop at the legal question of do you want to
proceed um and then you can you can open up your options after that because there's a lot of ways that this council can handle it. So, uh we'll start. Uh Paul Sora, senior assistant county attorney. Good afternoon. Uh uh Mr. Chair, members of council, this is uh at
the request of the chair a item dealing with various names. We're we're going to call it the rural lands analysis. Um some people have called it, you know, the rural growth boundary. Um but it's going to boil down to the exclusive method of
voluntary annexation. So um uh we were directed back in March before SP 180 came into effect to provide information and options to county council. And essentially because of the way some of the bill some of the statutes work, uh
council has two options. uh you can not proceed and just leave everything alone. Um or you can proceed as a uh council proposed charter amendment by a uh twothirds vote of the entire council um to put on the 2026 ballot an exclusive
method of voluntary annexation. And in that consideration, we would request input if you want to proceed on, you know, what type of procedures to apply and what area to apply it to. So there's there's a lot of kind of moving parts to that second discussion. Uh so
fundamental question, what's a rural boundary? Um that term has kind of been lobbied around. It's really two things. Um the first is it is what is statutory called the exclusive method of voluntary annexation under this particular statute
under section 171. Um, and that says that a charter county through its charter can set the exclusive method of an ownerdriven annexation. Um, so normally, actually, I'll get to that later. Um, the second part of the rural
growth boundary is the, uh, county charter supremacy under the Florida Constitution. Um and and a charter county can actually say in the event of a conflict, so long as it's not inconsistent with state law, the charter gets to decide which ordinance applies,
the county's ordinance or the city's ordinance. So that's a very powerful power. Um this is not unknown to Valuchia County. In 2006, uh a former county council um decided to put on uh urban growth boundary amendments in
2006. And what it did is it tried to use that second power that that charter count that um charter uh county of supremacy and said okay uh the county comprehensive plan would prevail over a conflicting municipal plan for a period
of 10 years in a certain area. That referendum failed at a 2006 vote. Um and you know in ex uh after that we entered into various um interlocal service boundary agreements. I'm going to call those ISBAs with five municipalities to
basically um enter into an agreement on certain annexation type um you know expansions. So going back to the uh method of voluntary annexation, this is a power that is only granted to county charters
by the annexation statute. Um and it only applies to owner uh a property owner wanting to annex into a municipality. Uh so normally in that event the county has no role in you know
analyzing and approving the uh the annexation request. We are limited to uh receiving notice and filing an objection or an appeal if the annexation fails statutory requirements. So if the annexation isn't compact contiguous or
if it results in an enclave, the county would object um and appeal if it needed to. Uh so the statute does allow a charter county to basically take that statutory process and say okay it doesn't apply in the county. The county
through its charter will create another process and all voluntary annexations need to follow that particular process. Um this does not apply to what I'm going to call involuntary annexations. So those annexations are by referendum. So
because um so a municipality can annex in two ways. They can either have a property owner request for an annexation or um the municipality can start the annexation process itself and start a
referendum. So it boils down to a referendum to annex a large area and that's what we call a voluntary annexation. uh involuntary annexation requires a majority vote of those you know people affected by that involuntary annexation. This uh charter process um
does not apply to the involuntary annexation. It only applies to the property owner driven one. >> Mr. Chair, can I interrupt there because I want to ask question specific to that if I may? >> Yes. >> Um the involuntary annexation piece, you use the word um uh words of referendum
and you also use large property. What? How is that defined? >> Um large. >> Well, that's usually when it when I I say large, it's usually when a a municipality wants to use the involuntary annexation process, they
want to to annex large portions because it's very expensive to do so. You need to set up a essentially a ballot. Sure. you know um so it is it is behooves the city to identify which area they would
like to annex and annex in in you know large manners rather than say a lot by lot. >> So if a one if a county a city wanted to annex a oneacre parcel and we just play that scenario >> would that still require a referendum?
>> Yes. >> Okay. So the only way is a referendum regardless of size of parcel. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Perfect. So, here's some examples of some procedures that other charter counties have done for their exclusive method.
So, you know, the fundamental is the county is the final approval of the voluntary annexation. You can create exceptions. So, for example, um areas within uh utility service area, areas within an ISBA because those are kind of
annexation related. You can set a voting threshold for approval. Majority plus one, twothirds vote, simple majority. Uh you can provide notice criteria to the county and surrounding property owners that are greater than what's required by statute. You can provide an appeal
criteria and you can provide other considerations such as infrastructure um you know compatibility type things. So there's a lot you can you can build into your exclusive method of voluntary annexation that's more than just the
statutory test of is it compact contiguous and does it result in the creation of enclave. So there's more that's available to a charter county for consideration. Um, so going back to the charter supremacy, this is the other half of the rule growth boundary provisions that
Orange County has done. And this allows the charter to basically dictate which ordinance is supreme when there's a conflict between a county ordinance and a and a municipal ordinance. Our charter has a default. So section 1305 says that
except as otherwise provided, um, the municipal ordinance is the one that prevails over the county ordinance. And there's two large exceptions. There's a unified beach code. The county has exclusive regulatory jurisdiction over the beach. And there's uh minimum environmental standards. So those are
the ones where you know we set under chapter 50 the minimum standards that every municip uh municipality has to adhere to and have to um craft an ordinance that meets our environmental minimum standards. So those are the two
exceptions provided in the charter. um otherwise a municipal ordinance prevails over a a county ordinance. Um this has been used by um charter counties that want to impose a rural growth boundary in terms
of the supremacy of their comprehensive plan. So the comprehensive plan uh you know prevails and is not changed by a municipality. you need to even after annexation, you need the county to change the county's comprehensive plan
even after annexation. So that's one of the the kind of um powers that are granted to charter counties. Um oh so this is basically examples of what I just said. So you can also impose voting thresholds. So for example, to
change a uh a uh comprehensive plan, a county comprehensive plan requires a you know supermajority majority plus one. Um you can do like Orange uh county has done and exclude certain areas like for example the utility service areas um
targeted growth areas and you know other areas from being within that kind of that rural limit area. Um, now let's talk about some of the statutory limitations. The reason why this item is before this council and it
is not before the uh charter review commission is that there was a change under Florida statute and it prohibits a citizen-led charter amendment. So that's either by petition or by uh citizen members. um they cannot put something on
the ballot directly without your approval if it pertains to preeemptions of a development order, land development regulation, comprehensive plan or voluntary annexation. So that's basically describing the rural growth boundary. So you know this statute says
only the local governing body of the charter county can put this type of item on uh a referendum. Um oh yeah, that's what it said. So, county council, you know, you must approve this type of item to get on the referendum.
And under our charter, uh, a count council approved referendum, uh, must be by twothirds vote of the entire body. So, and then we're going to go to SP 180. So, we've taken a look at SP 180. Um, it applies to comprehens, land
development regulations, development orders, and building permits. So that is uh you know the first half of the rural growth boundary amendments which deals with comprehensive plans and land development regulations and you know uh majority votes for those and things like
that. Uh however it does not apply to an annexation. Annexation is not a conference plan amendment. It's not a land development regulation. It's not a development order that has nothing to do with the issuance of permits. It is the boundaries of a city. So um while SB180
affects the uh the rural growth boundary in terms of you know land use authority of a charter county, it does not affect the um the provisions allowed by statute of a voluntary annexation. So that's kind of our legal analysis. if you would
like to go forward, there's some additional information to consider, but that's kind of like the threshold question of we've given our legal advice is that uh a large portion of the of Orange County's rural growth boundary is
not available under SP 180 at this time, but if you would like to proceed, the exclusive method of voluntary annexation is available. >> Thank you. That's very, very thorough uh questions. Um, Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Chair. Just a couple quick
questions like to possibly help me out here. Um, Paulo, how many other uh counties are using a policy uh like this? Um, so there there are two current counties that have uh three have
tried um and but there are two that currently have uh a policy on exclusive method of voluntary annexation. That's Orange County and Palm Beach County. Penllis County um attempted to do the that um and there's their policy under
their charter um was challenged and they lost. >> Do we have we seen like a common denominator or a um why those two counties do we see anything in common between the two issues that they were experiencing
anything like that? Um, >> does that make sense? If we look that far, >> mainly with their charter counties with a lot of municipalities um in them. >> Uh, >> pretty much why did they do it? You know what I mean? I want to see. >> Well, we know if you know Orange County,
why they did that? That was that um response to that. Yeah, the ranch that large ranch in that the eastern portion of Orange County. >> Okay. Um, how many how many large have we identified? Do we have like a a map with
dots of how many large properties? Because I think the whole point of this um was obviously to to protect our rural areas. Um, but how many how much larger parcels of property do we have left? I mean, we almost own I mean, we own 40%
of the the county close to it. what's really left that would make this um I'd say worthwhile. Is that I don't know if that's the right word for it. >> I'm not sure we have that information right now. Um that's that's something that is definitely up for consideration
for additional information. Um uh Ry is here if for >> like pretty much do we have more single family lots, you know, for the everyday person >> for leftovers in the unincorporated area? Right. It's it's a mix um for the
the type of annexation requests we get. About half of those are single family less than an acre, less than half of an acre lots um that comes that they they annex in because they're part of a an ISBA, >> right?
>> But the remaining lots, I can't answer that question. And have we looked in depth to and I think this is all kind of pertinent questions to get to a you know a vote or consider a vote. Um I know in our land use policy we uh discourage or
or maybe even outlaw uh the creation of enclaves anymore uh in in urban sprawl. Have we seen I haven't seen that in the four or five years I've been here but um have we seen that? Do we have any other documentation? Have we looked that that far into it?
uh where possibly urban sprawl happened and why or is that sprawl within the city already and it's kind of being mis identified as coming from the county? Does that make sense? >> Uh a a little bit. I I think what you're
going to show is that a lot of the development occurs in the municipalities >> and not a lot occurs in the county. So urban sprawl is is usually leapfrog development, you know, from an urban
center and then you you just generate a kind of, you know, um uh intense development that you know is >> uh away from those urban centers. >> But if the cities are the ones that are
growing and developing, those are your urban centers. It would be helpful to me, you know, to see if we've had any of that. Obviously, we want to try to curb that possibly if if it's happening. I don't think it has, but I' I'd like to see that that data
would be pertinent for me to make a a decision. Um, and and my last question to wrap it up, um, does this obviously does this take away are we taking away the city's pretty much local control with this or their powers? this is a
preeemption over uh the annexation. >> So in comparison to the SB180 issue, um I know we didn't support getting our local control taken away. So pretty much we would be doing the same thing to to
the cities in this case. theoretics. >> It's it's a preeemption where you are preempting the normal process of of annexation and inserting whatever policy this council wants to put as a charter >> in what and I know like Ostein, Sam
Sula, I have Tamoka Farms village uh those local plans what just for the record what kind of protections do we already have in place that is keeping us like I know I'm in the Tmoka farms village we don't have utilities right out out there. So that keeps us rural.
What other protection just to give my folks a piece of mind, what other protections do we have in place um for our our rural communities that want to stay rural? >> Uh it's like like you identified, utilities is a
big one. >> So in Tamoka Farms, we have an interlocal agreement with Port Orange even though it is in the Port Orange utility service area. um uh Port Orange just can't go and you know serve
unincorporated Valuchia County unless there is an overwhelming public health safety welfare. >> Right. >> So you know that kind of prevents um utilities from going on there and forces a rural type of development because
you're you're limited by utilities. We have our local plans >> strategic purchases um or we've got interlocal service boundary agreements with five municipalities Daytona Orund New Smyrna Edgewater and Oakill
>> right >> you know those are other mechanisms that the county has engaged in to come come to an understanding on annexation um and services >> anything else Um,
>> Paulo, just for the council's benefit, clarify on a in a local plan like Ostein you mentioned, uh, they or Tamoka Farms, I think I misspoke, uh, you can't extend utilities into unincorporated, but if they annex a property, there's no restriction on annexation and then they
can serve them. Correct. >> Correct. Yes. Okay. >> Even from a a local plan into >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. repeat that last part. >> So, um, so there's the like in, uh, the agreement we have with Port Orange
prevents them from, um, providing utilities to the unincorporated area unless, you know, there's an overriding public health, safety, and welfare. If they annex a parcel that is adjacent to the city, um, then they're not restricted from
providing utilities because it's part of the city. So, it's it's a protection for the um unincorporated area. >> Tie, I know you have the floor, but can I just ask a follow-up to that if I may, Mr. Chair? Too. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> But don't don't some cities require people if they're going to be on their
utilities to annex also. How how does this affect that? Uh we have an interlocal agreement that says even if you with Port Orange specifically we don't have an interlocal agreement with any of the others but it specifically says that you know even if you provide um utilities
um you cannot require that uh person you're providing utilities to to enter into an an annexation agreement uh with the city. So that's that's covered by another agreement between the county and Port Orange. So we prevent that situation where a city Yes,
>> I know. But isn't that occurring right now? >> Uh in some cities but not in the Tmoka farms area. >> Okay. Oh yeah, I'm talking about in the county. Sorry. Yeah, in the county. Yes, that does occur. >> That is the typical way um within the utility service areas um a city provides
utilities and in exchange when the time is ready when you know the the city boundaries are are contiguous that parcel will annex it. >> Correct. And then Mr. Chair, this is your time. I'll wait for my time. >> That's fine. >> Um, and then also, but cities are also
allowed to extend their service boundaries, their utility service boundaries. I what is it two or five miles out from their uh from their city limits, >> right? There's the statute, >> right? So, cities that have exercised that, I'll use one for example, New Smyrna goes out pretty far into that uh
I'll just use that wooded area that that rural area, right? M um how would something like this if it were to pass affect all that? >> They would have to go to county council to annex in. >> Okay. Just an extra step to finish it.
And if county council says no, then they get utilities or don't get utilities. You know, that that whole balance >> that's up to the utility provider >> on their end. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll yield to you. >> Yeah. Which is really my purpose for for bringing this up. I I I don't I don't
really want to waste time on on the rural boundary segment of it right now because it's we can't do it with 180. But the annexation we can and the the point um you brought up, Danny brought
up uh I think is is my main concern that right now the county residents who who move to an area that's rural, either agriculture or just um rural residential
for that lifestyle have no um say in changing that. If a city comes in and says, "We want to we want to uh annex a property that's next to numerous farms or whatever, use Tamoka Farms Village."
It's happened um to them with Port Orange annexing land from the county on uh at least to the north of them. And u the residents didn't want it, but the residents didn't have a vote. the the land owner had a vote and with the city
and yeah the the residents could go to the city meetings and voice their concerns. They felt like nobody cared because they don't vote for those representatives and so they had they had no uh um uh nothing in the in the game. So, I I
would like to see the uh and and but but the point that you two discussed about preeemptions was really I've never heard that. To me, it's like a reverse preeemption, the county's being preempted of protecting our current
zoning and land use. If a city comes in and wants to annex and and change all that. So, I it looks to me like we're the ones that are preempted, not the the city. So, I'm not sure I understand your your argument for that. >> Well, it's um well, the the statute
calls it a preeemption. Um so, yes, I spent some time in a city. We we never annexed. Call people go, "Hey, you want to annex?" Maybe they'll fly in once,
but they said, "Heck no. Isn't it the land owner that usually? >> Yes. >> So when we say the cities want to annex, the cities don't want to annex. Maybe they do, but they don't they don't go out shopping for annexation. It's the
land owner. And and again, we we we keep on talking about what color shirt most of us wear up here. By and large, we're land rights people, aren't we? So, so if if the own I don't know I I
got comments coming, but that's I just want to make sure that we're clear. >> Yeah. That the cities aren't aren't annexing county property. >> The people that live in the county want to get the heck out of the county and into the cities as long as they're contiguous. All right, sir.
>> But then the cities make the annexation. That's why I said the cities are Yes. It always comes from a land owner. And yes, that landowner has property rights. My uh my concern is that everybody that lives around them also has property
rights that bought there thinking that they could trust the government zoning and land use that was put there. Nothing lasts forever, but they should at least have a voice in it. So my my only ask is that we allow the people of Valuchia
County to vote on do we want to change the rules of annexation so that if there is uh a piece of property that the owner wants to annex in into the land port orange wherever it is that those
neighbors get some representation in that process that they have a a say in it with somebody that where they have skin in the game, a county council member um that that gives them a hearing to come to say why they are against it,
how it will alter the uh the neighborhood they live in, the quality of life, whatever it is that that they don't want with it. It can't, in my opinion, it can't just be one homeowner that has the ability to to change the
integrity of an entire neighborhood. And this this does that. In in the case of of uh Tamokco Farms Village, it's created terrible flooding with the new
development that went on in to the north that they didn't have any vote in. So alls all this would do alls I'm asking is that a county resident um gets a vote from their county council
that and this council could determine as far as I understand whether or not that's just a majority vote or or a supermajority vote that to uh to stop an an annexation. Um, but it gives the people a chance to come to us to their
elected officials, make their case with somebody that does have skin in the game before their their properties um values go up or down, their way of life is is severely altered. I just
think we we work better when we give pay attention to everybody's property rights, not just the the one uh residential owner or or land owner that doesn't like the limitations of our zoning and wants to probably sell to a
developer and put in um a much higher number of of uh houses per acre. um just give the people a chance to to come before their voting body and and tell us
their concerns and then we we vote on it. I don't see that as as a preeemption. May be defined that way by law, but otherwise we're pre we're preempting all the homeowners around uh an owner that wants to annex. Um, we're
preempting their rights to uh or their chance to have any say in this whatsoever. I want people to have a say. Uh, David Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm not a I'm sitting here trying to analyze this, Mr. Chair. I'm not
completely opposed to that idea. Um, my my thought process I'm thinking about this, how does it play out? Um and uh I think I could support that concept if if the voters passed it, >> right? >> Um with with with with a caveat of
having uh a process for that. And what I mean is that you know what is in the event of an annexation, right? We look at comp plan future all what whatever criteria it is that we spell it out and we identify that these are the important
things that we want to look at when it comes to annexation for us to to review and apply that standard equally to everyone that gets applied. Um again process right what what I want to avoid
without having a detailed process what we would consider is is just random yeses and nos for without any real and I know I want the public to have an input also but you know I want to make sure that that the rights of the person
appealing for the annexation are just as importantly weighed as the people like that that are opposed to it for example for for legitimate documented reasons, not because not in my backyard, right? Because those, you know, uh I think that's kind of sort of unamerican,
right, from a property rights perspective. But if we could have clear boundaries as to what we consider and then you formulate your opinion during a hearing like we do in some of our other qua judicial type stuff, then you gave somebody a fair shot based on the requirements. Um, and I without getting
in too much trouble, which I probably will, I just fear that it should we shouldn't govern by mob rule. It should be a process that's fair to everyone, not just because 10 neighbors came out or two neighbors came out. You know, what do we gauge that by? Um, but but going back to I think to your intent,
I'm okay with the county council saying, "Yes, we want this property to leave uh let's just say county governance and enter into city governance because of it what it's going to be." We agree with it. I I I don't have a problem with that, by the way, just so you know. >> Okay. I I I understand your point. I I
just think and um >> Jake, we've allowed some back and forth here. >> Um that right now the people that live around that property owner don't have any >> I I agree. >> So, a process. Yeah. But I I think I
disagree um that just the fact that they would say no, not in my backyard is not an acceptable reason. I kind of think it is. When people buy into a community thinking that this is going to remain rural, it's the same thing as Belvadier.
Um and then all of a sudden it's going to radically change to something else. I I I don't I don't think that's asking too much to give them um a vote on it. So, we we probably have some minor differences that I think we can work out
on process to make it fair for everybody, but they they need to they need to have a say too in in my opinion. >> Yeah, if we can continue a little bit of back and forth. I I I don't have a problem with somebody saying not in my backyard, but that should not be what I'm saying. that should not be the overwhelming driving factor to decide
something on the other person that wants to be in the city. I think we we can get there. I just what I'm what I'm asking for is if if I could support this concept going forward if we agree that we create a process and what that process looks like we decide. >> I think he you've already said that that
we would have to create a a process and that process needs to be in the charter. >> Yes. >> Needs to be in the charter itself. So the charter language would say can we should the county create this process >> the process itself yeah the process
itself has to be in the charter that's um you know when when I mentioned that um Penllis County tried to do the same process and they they got lost through a lawsuit. It's because they tried to defer the actual process to a county ordinance.
>> That's a pretty long charter amendment. Then the case law is that everything related to the exclusive method of voluntary annexation, you know, needs to be in the charter and the process needs to be spelled out in the charter. >> Wow. Okay. So, even before we put it on the ballot, we have to come up with those terms.
>> Correct. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, this isn't going to get done tonight. >> And just to be clear, that >> annexation process that city goes through is a legislative decision. You know, someone may petition that city to come in, but the city does not have to
annex that property. It's not a quasi judicial proceeding, just a legislative one. >> Okay. >> I think we can get there, Mr. Chair, is what I'm trying to say. And I I me as my individual, I could support it with depending on the process. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Councilman
Johansson. >> Yes, sir. Um, have we I'm asking a leading question. Have we had any cities deny uh annexation um recently?
>> Recently um I believe Dand has denied one or that withdrew and kind of denied another. Um this was I think a property north of the airport um that you know did not annex into the city of
Dand. Um and there was one recently a few years ago where the city actually denied the annexation. This was on the corner of Blue Lake and and um Taylor, >> right? >> Northwest corner of Blue Lake and Taylor
where the city of Dand initially denied the annexation. Um they went through and created an entirely new comprehensive planned land use category. um and then eventually allowed the annexation after it went through count processes um so
that development could fit into Dand's newly created uh comp comprehensive plan >> and and I I think last Tuesday um it happened in Samsula as well Vincent Jakers got denied by
Port Orange which was another annexation um so Can can the intent of this annexation be covered by an ISBA or MOA or something
else that that between uh the cities that seem to be expanding? >> Yes. Um in fact one of the things that uh you should take into account of is um excluding those cities that have entered into an ISBA from this process because
they you know that's another tool to um you know where they both where both the city and the county agree to the maximum extent of municipal annexation um and it allows for the kind of removal of enclaves and the uh the kind of control
of utilities. um and services in that ISBA area. >> Got it. Um that's all our questions I have for now. Thank you, >> Councilman Robbins. >> Thank you, Chair. Um you know, council, real quick, and and chair, you know,
where I think um where where, you know, we say, for instance, we want people to have a um have a say. you know what I can envision or or picture that I've that I've done um and I think a lot of us up here have
done it as well. Uh but when when something like this comes up and it's rare, right? Um what would be wrong with the county representing the county representative advocating uh obviously for his district or or
whatever the case may be with the city officials and appealing uh to them. I mean we are our our people's uh representation in that in that county. But I think there's a way to go about it and that's where some of these relationships come in and and in in the
four or five years we we've been up here chair I've seen, you know, some scenarios where um sometimes right out of the gate I I see folks automatically just know they don't they don't know anything around the
situation what legal steps we do have to follow. It's just no, we don't want it, you know, which I I can understand in in some instances, but I compared to like catching catching with honey. We saw it where we had a um
our LI process is is voluntary, but we've seen a couple of them now come in. They know that's what we want and they're doing it. And they've brought up some good projects here in the last few months that I think has been all uh unanimous, you know. So I I think
approach is is a lot to this uh stuff. Um but um another thing too what what kind of scares me about um David some of these processes uh you know or or
standards is that in the past um quasi judicial hearings for instance um for a long while they weren't worth the paper they're written on because they weren't being followed. Um so and there's many instances I'd have to go back through my
notes where it's clear uh before that hearing things were being said out of criteria and then during the meeting um the criteria wasn't being followed openly right that's why for a while we saw court reporters sitting here for uh
every hearing that we had uh so you know at the end of the day if if I think there may be a way to see what areas are possibly growing. Um, I know we had the the four or five uh that he named on the east side. If
there's development where we have to come up with an ISBA chair, maybe on the west side of town, you know, in certain other places to create that buffer um or or limit limit stuff. I' I'd be open to that, but I don't I don't know how
I don't know how this would um I don't know how it would would would really fit in uh right now. I'm open, but um that's pretty much my my uh my concerns with it uh thus far.
Okay. Any other questions for uh Apollo? No other questions. Um, I'm I'm going to ask if um I I think Danny that we we have to take another step to see what
the process would be to see how it would fit in because it's for me it's it seems pretty simple. just gives uh the residents in an area and you know I'm I'm hearing from people from from Ostein, Deltona, Edgewater, DeLeon
Springs, Tamoka Farms Village um that we we just want uh a voice in the process. I I would like to see uh somebody put forth a motion that we send this to staff to come back with a
reasonable legal process that then we can discuss and know what we're we're voting on. >> Chair, may I? >> Sure. >> Would it behoove us to get um any more data? I don't know if a motion
would be premature. How would we make a decision based on if we I'd say we'd have to see the cases of urban sprawl or enclaves created uh or properties that were not in the cities that were
annexed. There's got to be data out there. Um because if there's no data out there, we're creating to creating a a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. I think there is some some instances where there may be a problem, right? and we have to address it. Could
it be addressed by an ISBA or another means to tighten it up? Absolutely. But going going to third base before maybe going to first base and having the the core information first, I don't know if that's I don't want to say wise, but
maybe just premature um at at this point. I mean, but I I'd need some data. >> Well, that's for me. I've I've feel like I've seen the the data just from traveling around the the county um going to all the places that I've just seen
and and looking at the urban sprawl. I mean that I you have pointed out or David pointed out that we own 40% of the interior of the county. All the easy places to develop have been have been
developed. So now it's it's the harder places and um and it's you know we may disagree on this but I think it's contributing to significant flooding issues. Um so urban sprawl has got an
obvious uh having an obvious effect on on our county. I don't really want to wait for I think the evidence is there. I'm just asking that we look at at the process that Mr. Santiago wants to see. What would it look like? Let's just give
the voters of Valuchia County a chance to decide um to vote on this. Um Jake Johansson, it's a following question for the chairman actually. is is the purpose of the rural boundary as
we're discussing right now uh to to stop development and stop flooding or to give people a voice in the annexation. I I just want to be clear on what the purpose is >> talking about the rural boundary >> multi a rural boundary amendment at all.
I'm I'm focusing just on the annexation. >> So So the purpose >> and the purpose of that is just to give the surrounding neighborhoods a chance to participate in the process because they have none now. >> They don't they don't feel like Yeah.
They don't feel like they have >> because they have to go to the city. >> Correct. >> All right. Thank you. >> Uh Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm still about the process. So, I don't have a
problem with giving direction for staff to give us options for what that could look like and discuss it. Um, and then make a decision then. Um, I'd be interesting to see what it would look like. Um,
and I I could understand the perspective, Mr. Chair, of neighbors feeling not having a voice or representation. I I could respect that. Okay. I think that's a legitimate comment by people that that are affected by it. So, I'm I'm trying to put myself in those shoes. I'm saying, "Okay, I
have this and all of a sudden this comes I want to be able to have a voice and hold that person accountable as my individual voter voters." So, um Mr. Chair, I I move that we direct staff to give us options with processes
um for voluntary annexations to consider for a possible referendum charter amendment. >> That's that's fair enough. Um,
who was that? Troy Kent. Okay. Uh, Councilman Santiago makes a motion that we direct staff to come back with process. This is really boiled down processes for uh uh changes to voluntary
annexation. Can I leave it with that or do you want to add some words in it? >> Okay. and Troy Kent makes the second. Um, we have now we have something to to debate and we do have uh three maybe more four
members of the public that want to speak, but Vice Chair Reinhardt, >> thank you, Chair. Um, I do understand this more now from what I just first read this. Um, believe it or not, clear as mud. Um, but you brought up a good point. I guess
I'm a home rule guy, you know, and I guess I thought about that and that's why I respected that that was brought up by Mr. Robbins. You know, we and then Paulo had pointed out preeemption on behalf of the county. But you brought up a good point. The ones that are going to
argue this about being annexed into the city are the surrounding properties, not the property owner because he's looking for the annexation or she's looking for the annexation. And they they they should have a say. And I think what hit home for me was the fact that when they
go to the city commission, city commission already knows, well, they can't vote for me. They're they're not in the city, you know, and and I get it, but we don't have to. It's a very, very good point. So, I appreciate the fact that that was brought up because the one that came to mind is right there in the
in in my district and and part Mr. Robbins is Tamoka Farms Village. And I think about what the city had done right across the street. And I'm not faulting the city, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that that was their argument by a development right across the street that uh that
they feel is causing the flooding. Um so I appreciate that that that was brought up. So when you brought up the idea, Mr. Santiago, about getting more information, I do want that process explained to me a little bit more on what that would take. Um anyways, enough said. I just want to make sure that that
was uh that was voiced. >> Okay, Councilman, you went away. >> Uh Paulo, are you good with all that? >> Uh >> yes, we know what to bring forward, we'll provide additional information. Um so if this goes through, depending upon if you exclude anything, right?
>> Um you're looking at this council approving 40 to 60 annexation petitions per year. That's approximately how many I review >> and most >> okay that that's makes it for me a lot more >> 40 to 60 annexation voluntary annexation
petitions is >> go ahead >> is is there a way I'm just brainstorming here guys is there a way that we can in the referendum I'm going to guess that you said 40 to 60 of those in your earlier testimony you said a lot of
these were what I consider small annexations >> yes >> right are most of those one acres or something like that. >> Most of them are 1acres and more than have more most of them are in even less than an acre at least and most of them are in ISBAs. >> Is there a way that we can we can put a
size limit that way? We're not dealing with if does if this does pass we're not dealing with, you know, three or four of these every year. >> You can you can set a size limit on the the maximum size >> certain acreage or higher. >> I don't know what that number is, but I I'm glad you mentioned >> but that's the kind of options we need
to see. That's that's a good question. Uh, >> oh, Don Dempsey. >> Yeah, Paul, I was just curious, is the only possible way to amend what we have now through a referendum? >> Yes. >> It can't be done by a supermajority. There's no way of tweaking it without
>> No, the um the the statute provides the default process, which is, you know, you must follow that statute. And it's the only uh activity or interaction that the county has through the annexation process uh normally is if we object or
if we sue, which we've done before when they annex in a way that we don't think is compliant with the statute. You know, they they create they mushroom out or they create an enclave. You know, we we object to those types of annexations. Um or you can enter into an interlocal
service boundary agreement you know and which we've done with five cities and that kind of uh generates the maximum extent usually following the utility service area and allows for the elimination of those uh unincorporated enclaves.
>> Thank you. >> You know any judges you could ask? Okay, we have is there one more member of the public? We have three uh in order that they came to me. Uh John Nicholson,
John Nicholson, Daytona Beachside. Um, as you know, I came from Miami date county and they had a service boundary at um 30 miles outside of town basically. And um what they said was that we don't want
to develop past that. The farms are there, the houses are there, etc. We're not going to go into that and uh we will wait and we will uh slowly build out because uh what we did here in Daytona
Beach at um uh uh Williamson and LPGA was on steroids in Miami. It was just building up left and right. So they passed this uh god even before Jake was born. So it's been
it's been around for quite a while. Um, and I'm wondering if we can do either a freeze on our zoning, uh, if we have zoning at 10 uh, houses per acre, if we can freeze that for 25 years or 50 years
or 100 years and tie it to the taxation. Uh, I know that farms, uh, which I objected to 35 years ago with the city, uh, NASCAR came in and rezoned their industrial area that they bought
to farm and they were going to grow hay on it. So, the taxes from an industrial area to an agricultural area is tremendous. And they had three or 4 hundred acres and their tax bill went zoop. and our income for the city took a
nose dive. So, if we are saying you have this farmland, whether it's trees or horses or cattle or whatever, and you're going to have uh a tax break on that property, we now say you can have that
tax break at three levels. At one point, 25 years, you can have it for 25. or you can have it a certain another tax rate at 50 years if you guarantee that you're not going to develop it for 50 years or 100 years. It it gives them a break and it gives us a break. Otherwise, they're
land speculators. They sit there and they sit on $2 an acre for 30 years until it gets ready to develop. and they've saved all that money while everybody else left and right of them that have those houses are paying full
fair because they're not ranches or they're not whatever. If we want to try to guarantee and save as much farmland as we possibly can we change our tax the
way we tax them. All right. We buy now air rights. We buy development rights. Why are we div buying development rights if we can deny them taxes or give them tax breaks? If you want to keep your
farm, I'm not going to let you have it for two years. You got to keep it for 25 or 50. Thank you. >> You got that? >> It's I'm open to ideas. Um uh Amy from Dion Springs.
Amy Minzy and you'll be followed by Stephen Crump. >> Good afternoon. Amy Munzi, Dillion Springs Community Association. We know that Senate Bill 180 precludes a lot of what was being discussed here on this
last October. So this time around, the focus is on private property rights to voluntary annexation. In 2006, an urban growth boundary amendment was placed on the ballot and was not approved by voters. But in the
19 years since that time, only 10,000 acres of land has been annexed into municipalities in the last 19 years. And nearly 6,000 of those of those acres was by a cooperative agreement between
Valuchia County and the municipalities. Interlocal service boundary agreements are a cooperative approach between Valuchia County and the municipalities to jointly determine how to best provide services such as water, sewer or road
maintenance and cooperatively adjust municipal b uh boundaries to reduce single pockets of unincorporated lots surrounded by a municipality. Now, we support this cooperative approach. However, some private property owners
may find the expense of maintaining wells and septic systems and the lack of municipal services to be daunting. If they want an adjoining municipality to offer them services, they should not be
forced into an extra level of government intrusion in their decisions to care for their property as they best deem for themselves. We don't believe that impeding a private property owner's ability to obtain municipal services is
the right approach to managing growth. The best way to protect land from development and I believe this is what this is really all about is to buy that land. Valuchia Forever is the mechanism that voters have continued to support for outright purchase of land for
conservation. Valuchia Forever can also offer conservation easements that compensate land owners for giving up an opportunity to develop their land and allow them to continue agricultural activities.
Agriculture is a major contributor to our economy. Valuchia County farm Valuchia County farmers have a very important role in maintaining our food supply through Valuchia forever and other funding partners. Agriculture
easements compensate farmers for agreeing to keep their land in farming. It maintains the value of their land should they wish to sell it to others for continued farming purposes. We continue to support the Valuchia County
Farm Bureau's opposition to rural growth boundaries or any element of rural growth boundaries that devalue their land and devalue their farms. Thank you. Steven Crump,
Steve Crump, uh, Deleon Springs. I'm here today to speak on behalf of Lucia County Farm Bureau Board of Board of Directors. About a year ago, Councilman Brower visited Valuchia County Farm Bureau Board of Directors uh, to get their input regarding implementing the rural
growth boundaries in Valuchia County. At that meeting, uh, Chairman Brower discussed his concern about the impacts of growth in the county and the resulting construction and the need to do something about it. And he shared how other counties had implemented rural growth boundaries. The board members
agreed that new construction is causing problems for current residents, especially flooding adjacent to new subdivisions, that annexation by cities seems to be uncontrollable. We are losing current farmland to development and the cost to purchase
land in the county to start or expand a farmer or ranch isn't financially feasible. But after discussion, the board concluded and voted that rural growth boundaries are not in the best interest of agricultural land owners because by design the boundary land
lines create winners and losers. If your land happens to be on the urban side of the line, the value increases greatly because of its develop development potential. But if your land is on the rural side of the line, it's devalued because it's lost potential
development. The board saw this as an uncompensated devaluation of a farmer ranch's assets. And this devaluation impacts on a farmer's ability to borrow against the value of the land and potentially reduces the resale value of the land,
which is often their retirement plan. Farm Bureau at the state and county level has been supportive of preserving farmland by using con conservation and agricultural easements like Valuchia forever and Florida Department of Agricultures rural and family lands
protection program for two reasons. They are both voluntary and the land owner is financially compensated for reduced potential future usages. Regarding this proposal today though, the Valuch County Farm Bureau Board of Directors recognizes the growth that has
already occurred in and the impacts on both rural and urban residents in our county, but needs more time to research and discuss this proposal with its members before taking a position. We ask that the county staff include us in any
future conversations and communications so that we can ensure that we have the best and latest information. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Councilman Santiago. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks for the folks that spoke today in the
public. I want to make sure um at least I'm very clear the the motion that is in play right now has nothing to do with implementing an urban growth boundary. That's not what we today. The motion in place is to direct staff to
look at uh voluntary annexations and how a language can be placed potentially on the ballot for folks to decide that and processes around that. >> Correct. >> That's all that we're discussing here today. So, >> thank you. >> Uh
Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah. I just want to kind of make my point here. I'm against uh doing any of this discussion. I'm going to be a no on the vote only because uh for one, you know, home rule. I mean, I'm a firmly I went along with SP 180, our petition and
to lobby against or for the modifications because I don't think we like Big Brother State telling Little Brother County what we should be doing. But on the flip side, Big Brother County is telling the Little Brother Cities what they can and can't do with their
adjoining properties. And so I think I don't want to say hypocritical, but borderline hypocritical for us to be telling these cities what they can and can't do with their adjoining properties. Um when we don't like big brother state telling us what to do with
our properties as well. So on principle I'm against it. Um and it's just the other thing is it's just whose rights are we really trying to protect the property owner or the adjoining property owners? because, you know, like we talked about before when we did the uh
special exception discussion and the changes in the land use code. Um I for one are am more concerned about the property rights of the property owners than I am the neighbors. The neighbors should have bought that property when it was up for sale years ago if they were that concerned about it. But I I just I
don't I don't see it to where I I I think it's infringing on property rights to sit here now and tell the property owner that you no longer have a choice of going between the city or the county and doing what you want to do with your own property. If you want to be part of the city and you join the city, why shouldn't they be able to? Why do they
have to go through another layer of government, the county? I mean, they just shouldn't have to do it. And you know, I've said this before and been criticized for saying it. But I'm not a big fan of Echko having
the goal or Valuchia Forever, I'm sorry. I'm not a big fan of Valuchia Forever having this goal of us acquiring 50% of the county land. I mean, and we're talking about doing that in perpetuity. I mean, imagine if the Indians when they sold us Manhattan for beads, if they
said no more than five TPS per acre and that's it. And that's in perpetuity. You know, it's it's very vain for us to think that we know what's good for the community a 100 years from now or 300 years from now, 500 years from now. And
our goal, I'd like to talk about this at a later meeting, but I don't feel comfortable with our goal um being in perpetuity that this land is tied up, half of our county is tied up in perpetuity.
And you know a capital if you research like a capitalist society is almost majority private property. In a Marxist society the government owns all the property you know. So are we really going to be content with being halfway to a Marxist
society? I mean is that really our goal? I'm I want to help the farmers. Um, I want to give them the right to do what they want, but there may be a time in the future where we really need to develop this property. I'm sure at one time New York was farmland and I know
Pennsylvania has downtown Pittsburgh has changed its dynamic over the last hundred years. Everything's changed. So, you know, in law there's a principle called uh rules against perpetuity. In common law, that was a life and being in 21 years. You couldn't tie up a piece of land for more than a life and being in
21 years. And here we are talking about making rules that are going to go far beyond that. And I I just I don't feel comfortable with that. And I don't like this rural growth boundary taking away the option of individual property owners
to be able to go to whatever jurisdiction they want to be under and how to handle their land. And I think that by doing the rural growth growth boundary, it's it's again big brother telling little brother city what you can and can't do. And I really am a big proponent of local home rule. Thank you
guys. >> Okay, I understand that. Uh your point of view on that, Don. Again, we're not talking about rural boundary. We're talking about annexation and we're not talking about the uh I I know you have
the same issues with with the annexation property or process. Um, but we're we're talking about county land, >> right? >> We're not talking about the city's land. We're talking about the city coming in and saying, "We're going to we're going
to bring this land into um our city and change the zoning and change the um land use so that they can build more houses. One of the things that that Steve didn't mention is that when I went and spoke to
the farm beer, the very first directive I was given by by a a friend who in fact I know most of the people on the the farm beer board was um was hollering, not hollering at me, but they were they're sick of it. He said, "Just stop
changing zoning and stop changing land use." And I was stunned. I said, "That's what I'm talking about." And I'm not even talking about stopping it. If we were talking about the rural boundary, what the rural boundary amendment does was just require a super majority vote before zoning and land use could be
changed. But we're not talking about that here. We're talking about annexation. And the whole reason maybe I've never discussed this with you. May maybe you um are against the fact that
in America we have um we should research it and see where it started. But start we have zoning so that you build business here, you build residential here. Um, that's all that this protects is for the people that v that bought
property knowing that it had certain rights and potential. Um, and they wanted to count on that and then their next door neighbor um wants to sell out and completely change the um the the
makeup of that community. I just believe they should have a a voice in it, too. I think if you I think if you research it, you'll find zoning only started like maybe a hundred years ago. It's it's not always been around. Downtown Dand was
built, I would think, without much zoning or at least building codes. And my office is, >> you know, 1892 it was built and it's still standing without any. >> So maybe maybe there's a reason it came in then because people did want to
protect their where they live, where they work, where they play. And I I think it's I think it's wise. Um and again, even with the annexation, this doesn't prevent anything. It just gives um the community that's most effective a
a voice in the decision, >> but it but it adds a layer of bureaucracy to the property owner, which is what I don't like. You know, are you a property rights guy or are you a property neighbors guy? >> Yeah. >> I don't think you can be both. I'm not a
property rights guy with no limits. No. >> Okay. >> No. I I think we have u a responsibility to our neighbors. Um Oh. Um Jake Johansson.
>> Thank you, sir. Um I believe we have a responsibility to our neighbors as well, and that's something that that anybody that has land um ought to really take for action. Um, however, I don't think we on this county council have a
responsibility to a property owner's neighbor. Um, let them handle it. Let them work it out. Um, I I believe and and I know this is a far stretch because I've taught myself
as well. When you bribe property, you ought to be well aware of what it is, what it could be, and what your neighbors are and what they could be. Um, uh, if you live out in the middle of nowhere and you're 50 miles from from a city, there's a good chance during your
lifetime, you're you're not going to be encroached on by urban sprawl. Um, if you live across the street from my subdivision in one of those farm homes, there's a damn good chance you're going to you're going to get uh uh affected by
sprawl. Um, so you got to be a aware of all that. I I believe and and I concur 100% with Don on this that that we all have property rights. We also live in a community and I think it's
it's our obligation to chat with our neighbors. I think I'm going to sell my 40 acres. Man, I wish you wouldn't do that. Well, maybe maybe maybe I don't have a choice. Um but maybe you
can join me and and be part of the fun and we can all live large if that's the case. Um, additionally, I I I want to retain the the rural vibrancy of of what we have. We have we have Valia forever.
We have other incentives at the state and local level. Uh, I want to I want to keep farmers farming. I don't want them to sell by choice, not by uh sell by obligation. I don't want to sell. I want to be a farmer. I want to grow ferns. I
want to range cows. I think that's what you do there, chairman. I want to grow hay. I want to grow corn. I I I want to do all that. I don't want to sell my property, but I also don't want my neighbor to have a say on what I do with
my property. It if I did, and I lived in the country, how would you like it if your neighbor said, "Your cows smell. I don't like it." I want a say in that. Um I if you live rural there's there's things that that that may happen and and again
I I I think that the cities by and large would would communicate and cooperate with us to be aware of what's going on. If if somebody wants to um if somebody wants to annex
uh and and the people around them are opposed, they can contact us and we can go to the city and and talk to the elected officials. I I do it all the time. Um and uh uh we have conversations.
I I I just don't like the added I don't like the added bureaucracy. I think every person has a right to their property and if there's disagreements with your neighbors, you got to communicate. It's the way it was back in
the day with with people agreeing and disagreeing. I think we ought to keep it up and just communicate more instead of bringing everything to the government to help solve the problems. That's all. Thank you, >> Councilman Kent. >> Thank you, Chairman. I just wanted to
say publicly, Don Dempsey strikes again. Thank thank you for for yet again I I was a chump also by the way. >> Why are you smiling about that don? >> I just wanted to just say you know we all add our own piece to these meetings
but when I when I say you strike again I mean here you are you know changing minds at least one of us up here and I'm appreciative of the input. So, thank you, >> Mr. >> Councilman Santiago. >> I want to bring it in for a landing. I call the question, Mr. Chair.
>> Chris, would you call the role? >> Can you repeat the uh the motion is to uh excuse me, is to uh direct uh staff to come back with language on the process for voluntary annexation
uh changes. And then the council would at that time have the uh um we would decide then if we want to go forward with it. So this doesn't create um it just brings back information of how that would be done, what it looks
like. Fair enough. >> Okay, Chrissa. >> Mr. Johansson. >> Yes. >> Mr. Kent. >> No. >> Mr. Reinhardt? >> Yes.
>> Mr. Robbins? >> No. >> Mr. Santiago? >> Yes. >> Mr. Dempsey? >> No. >> Mr. Brower? >> Yes. And the uh the motion barely passes for the three. Um thank you all for your
input and chairman. May I >> chair? >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> Quickly. I I voted yes because I want to bring it forward. But but it's going to take some it's going to take some convincing here to get me to uh uh to
make this go any further. You need a twothirds vote of the entire council to put something on the ballot. >> Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. It's a >> Yeah, this is it doesn't apply to this. >> So, the next vote if we if we want to put it on the ballot, it takes a super majority.
>> Yes. >> Uh chairman, uh can we uh and Paulo, I voted no for a specific reason. It was uh to what I brought up earlier. I I need some more the data and uh the chairman brought up some good points. You know, if there's sprawl or
something, anything to that nature to get me over I I need some clear examples to to see what that's y'all's will wheelhouse. >> Yes, sir. Uh the ne next step as we move forward, we're going to collect the data u because there's going to be a lot of decisions, you know, kind of u where
this area is uh how you delineated uh processes. So that's what we anticipate uh the next step would be and provide that data. >> Yeah. Anything with the large, you know, land parcels left or if it's those single lots like you say, if there's any enclave, any any of that, you guys know
what to do, right? >> That that would help me out greatly. >> Yes, sir. >> Deputy County Manager Suzanne Conchin. >> Yeah. And just to wrap the conversation that just occurred with Rey and Danny, we'll bring a presentation to council
with that data and various language options for the council to debate around that data because there are a few decision points around uh how you want that charter question crafted. So, >> okay. Thank you.
Okay. Item 14, District 1 and District 2, appointments to the West Valuchia Tourism Advertising Authority. >> Correct. I did place an additional application today for a Britney Madson on your um seats. Um she did pass her
background check this morning, so I wanted to make sure that you had her as an option as well. Um it does have to be in a rotational order of Mr. Dempsey first and then Mr. Reinhardt. And >> why does Don get to go first?
>> Yeah. Why is that? >> Because it's a rotational order. >> Um, and it it's adopted that way in the ordinance, I believe. >> Oh, Don. >> Um, I will also say that one individual needs to be from the lodging industry.
So, that is Miss Forest, Britney Madson. Is there a a second on Britney? >> Uh >> and mine will be Christine Forest. >> Okay. Any uh questions, concerns about
either either person. All in favor of confirming their appointment say I. I. >> Any opposed? They are confirmed. Seven to zero. And then item 15 is the
district 1, district 4 atlarge and chair appointments to the code enforcement board. Yes, you have a couple of upcoming um expiring terms as well as a couple vacancies on this board, which is why so many are coming forward to you at
this point. Um I wanted to point out that section 2361 of the code states that the membership of the code enforcement board shall include an architect, business person, engineer, general contractor, subcontractor, and a realtor. And
currently you only have a business person and a realtor. So, um, if you could nominate individuals that are in those other professions, um, that would be great. >> So, you're saying some of these on the list aren't qual don't meet the, uh,
qualifications of the >> They don't have to meet those qualifications, but they shall based on the code. >> Okay. >> Right. Whenever possible. >> Does Mr. Mr. Dempsey, you get to go first again. >> There is no rotational order on this one.
>> Great. I'm ready. >> Did you have a question on the what process? >> No, I I wanted to get my name in there so I can >> get my guy. >> Okay. So, there's no order this time. Oh, great. Okay. Jake Johansson,
>> I nominate Don Needam. >> Thanks, Jake. >> Navy guy. >> I didn't hear you. Who? >> Engineer. Don need. >> Don Needam. Okay. Fighter pilot. Okay. Uh Troy Kent.
>> Um are we Do you want a second for Jake or No. I don't care. >> Okay. We'll do we'll do them all at the end. No, it's okay. Then I'll do a uh a Pete Z civil engineer. >> Okay.
And is there a second for Pete? >> For Pete. And I would say um if they're qualified, if they a marine technician. >> Mhm. >> Uh Edward Pelosi.
>> I'll second. >> And let's see who are we. Uh at large is gone. Chair, >> Mr. Dempsey, >> your remaining individuals are Mr. Ferman, Mr. Richard Hernandez, and Ronald Baxter.
Is it possible I could pick mine next meeting? >> Yes. >> That's not okay. >> Chair, if I could, I'd like to cook mine. So, I'd like to go ahead and uh No, no, it doesn't matter. I I'd just like to look into these a little bit
more before I choose. >> To >> No, that was me. >> That was yours. Okay. I still want to I want to go through. >> Okay. None of them are clients, >> huh? I don't know. It's small world.
>> Um Okay. Yeah. If I could just pick mine next meeting, that'd be great. >> Okay. >> I just want to know. Um Mr. Kent's member is Mr. Pete Z for a term expiring November 18th, 2028. Um Mr. Johansson's is Mr. Don Needle for
a term expiring November 18th, 2027. And Mr. Browers is Edward Tlosi with a term expiring November 18th, 2026. >> Correct. Okay. Any other questions on those?
Jake, your name is still up. Is that a Okay. All in favor of the three nominations, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? And they are nominated seven to zero. And Don will make one next meeting.
>> All right. That brings us back to the public participation for the people that have waited all day. I appreciate that. Um, so we have some new ones, but I'm going to start with the ones that have been sitting here. We'll see who still
remains. Um, again, three minutes. Just tell us where you're from. Uh, Marilyn Goldsmith, not here. Does anybody know Marilyn? She's not here. Gone. Uh,
uh, Lori, go and ring. Lloyd, you're here. This is Lloyd Bowers. Thank you, Mr. Chair. uh Lloyd Bowers, uh District 2 resident and for the last 14 years the District 2 rep on the cultural council. I'm here today
speaking to you not as uh on behalf of the cultural council, but certainly as a member of the cultural council and I'd like to take you back to February the 18th. Uh that was the night or day that uh you were brought forward uh the
restructured program that you requested the cultural council to come up with and cultural council worked with staff and with uh the arts community and came up with a program that that night you accepted by a vote of 6 to1. Chairman Brower, I now understand your position for you. It's foundational and I get
that. But the rest of you went forward with the program this year. And so based on that, all of the applicants had to do a completely new grant application that they had never done before because you shifted it from operational expenses to
programming expenses. And they did that. The cultural council then had their hearings. They scored the grants for you and they were presented to you. And then we had October 7th and that was when uh things were supposed to go through on the consent agenda but did not go
through. It was pulled and you all had your discussions that's been going on for the last four weeks about that. And I remember so cogently because I was one of the people still here uh that night or that day and how many different
motions uh uh were uh failed for lack of a second. And Councilman Dempsey, I think yours was fund this year and then do away the program. And I now see the wisdom of that for for what was done for this year as far as the grant applications because these organizations
uh who have relied upon you since 1989 and have structured their programming for this year already in progress based on the grant cycle and the grant applications the grants being awarded are now literally uh with without a a
branch to to hang on as the river sweeps under them. And although there are some that have a lot of public support, there are some that really have difficulty getting support from the public uh for the programs they do. I I look at like Art House, which does incredible job of
bringing to children in our community. Uh great programming at a reduced or no cost to them. So across the board, children can participate in that. the Army Museum which uh does a great veterans outreach and bringing programmings at reduced or no cost to
them. Senior programming is provided by many of these other organizations. So there is a public good and a public service is provided by these organizations. So I'd simply ask that let's at least approve this year. Let these organizations have what was promised to them. I'll say that promise
to them and then uh save the program and the decision for another day because you will have to make a decision. I mean the cultural council still exists but what are we doing now? I'll leave it to you. Thank you. >> Thank you Danielle Cryle. Daniel Cryle.
>> Good afternoon gentlemen. My name is Daniel Kryle. I live in the beautiful city of Daytona Beach, Florida. Been a Blush County resident since 1968. Around the country, although not in Florida, today's an election day. And that's always important to me, a retired history teacher, because it reminds me
that the very foundational principles upon which our republic is founded is public participation, listening to the people. The people can vote and the people can come here and say what it is that they want to say. and our elected
leaders listen. We hope so. I'm here as part of the people to do that today. And the first thing I want to say is to each and every one of you, thank you. Thank you for being willing to do a job that not everybody wants to do. I don't
suppose I agree with many of you on very many things, but I respect so much what you are doing and your willingness to go through the mundane details of policy, work it out, argue amongst yourselves. I
absolutely have respect for that. But earlier, I was zoning out a little bit while you were doing that. And when I sort of reawoke, I thought as the theater guy, wow, I could be watching a first rehearsal table read of Seven
Brides for Seven Brothers. This is not a diverse group, but you represent a diverse county. And when at any time you scapegoat a minority in that county and use that as an excuse not to continue a policy, you let us
know that well maybe you aren't willing to represent everybody in the county. I'm a very very strong advocate for the arts as you can tell. Uh and I wish we could get that through. Representative Kent, I listened as you were very
impassionate about your support for dogs on the beach. I don't like dogs, so I wouldn't agree with you on that. But the thing that caught my ear is that at least three or four times during your speech on that, you said this is what they want. The people want this. This is
what the people have told me they want. I I guess Julia, we haven't let Mr. can't know enough what the arts community wants because what we want is a little support and with all due respect I will say to chairman Brower
again a most principled man you are one thing you said before lunch however caught my ear and what you said was boy when something gets in the budget it's hard to get it out again with all due
respect you made it look real easy to us 611 $7,000 gone. Thank you gentlemen again for your service. We do appreciate it. Thank you for your comments. Uh June Bar see any movement.
Uh okay. Asher is Asher here. This is a relatively new one. I thought so because Asher's not here. Uh John Nicholson Beachside. What I want to clarify uh
when I spoke um about discussion on the dog beach with someone, it was uh one night at the Stary um gallery downtown. I guess she forgot and that's when she said we're about to
get the whole beach. I assume when she said whole, she meant the entire beach. So that's where that one stands. She did we did have that conversation. Secondly, on renaming uh part of the roadway
system for Mr. Kirk, I personally I read five newspapers uh three mag uh news magazines uh one US, one Canadian, one English. Never heard of the man. All right. Um,
I'm sorry that he was assassinated, but to make a decision on a knee-jerk reaction, I think there needs to be time to let this settle and then determine uh his impact on this community and our relationship to him. Uh, after Kennedy
died, everything and his brother was named for Kennedy and then we had to change back Cape Canaveral to Cape Canaveral rather than Cape Kennedy. So, I would ask you to wait a while on uh naming a road for Mr. Kirk. Um, with regard to nonprofits,
um, yeah, there's a reason why there are nonprofits. Okay. But we've always supported the arts. And what's the difference between sports and the arts?
There are people that live and die for sports. There are people that can tell you every home run, every stat for a given player or team. I can't. All right? And you know how I am with the arts. I would not go to an opera to save
my life. But I appreciate the arts and I see the value of it. So I I admit that will be coming back to you more than once. And lastly, I um we have an artist or they had he now
lives up in I think Flaggler Baller. I would love to have a Baller can't afford it, but he is a worldrenowned artist and he was
born and raised here. I would like to see several more of those. Thank you. Thank you, Steve Tanis. >> Hello, I'm Steve Tanis. I live in Dand in Mr. Dempsey's district. Um, I was stunned when uh you all denied
the funding which had already been budgeted for the arts. Um, I heard some of your discussion today uh on the children and family advisory board and I know it's difficult to assess competing needs and benefits.
But what bothers me is that one form of recreation has been deemed superior to another. I'm not a big sports fan, but I haven't resented the money we spend on baseball fields and pickle ball courts. Uh, and the millions we've been contemplating
for dirt bikes. Uh, so I want to know what makes playing on a baseball team better than playing a role on a stage. If supporting the arts is charity, then so is maintaining baseball fields and pickle ball courts.
If we're going to spend millions on one form of public recreation, we should not be pulling the rug out from under another. The speaker ahead of me cited some of the benefits the arts bring to veterans and children. I want to point out the uh
fall festival of the arts coming up, which brings hundreds of artists, thousands of people into the land, uh has been doing so every year for as long as I can remember. I spoke to some of the uh artists uh one
year and they they love coming here and part of the reason they love it is because we have uh we have a a lively arts program. We we run our festival uh properly. We uh we judge the works. It's
a jured festival and that makes it a very very high quality. So I would uh be one of the many who's uh keeps bringing it back. Uh the arts are uh the arts are important to to many of us and uh they
uh they they bring us uh monetary benefits as well. I don't know what else to say what that hasn't been said before. Uh thank you for your consideration. >> Thank you.
Okay. And that closes uh public participation for the afternoon. Um we'll go to closing comments. Uh county manager George Rectenwald. >> Yes, sir. I just want to start off with
little announcement here. Uh you know, as evidenced by earlier today, the county has a long and proud history of uh serving uh veterans. And I just want to add to uh what we're doing for them. Um
uh the county is going to show it support for veterans by participating in Operation Greenlight for Veterans. It's an initiative sponsored by the National Association of Counties and the National Association of County Veteran Service Officers. So on November 11th, we're
going to illuminate the Ocean Center, historic courthouse, and the Thomas C. Kelly building that we sit in right now. with green lights to let the veterans know that they are seen and appreciated and supported. Just want to let everyone know that. Uh the other thing I was
going to comment on from uh earlier today uh the Miller Lake uh there was some stuff said I feel like I have to clarify. Um the the idea that uh uh Ben Bartlett
somehow is approving some permit is inaccurate. Uh the permit in question is a permit that a uh development um uh in Orange City is applying through St. John's Water Management District. And
and there's a big difference between us approving or denying. and we have no ability to do that. But we did not send in a letter of objection to it. And that's important to differentiate because they're they make that assertion and some other stuff that's occurred.
We've not approved or denied anything. Uh we're just not uh having an objection because we don't have any mathematical or or technical reason to do such. And in fact, I think Ben sent out a nice email explaining that, you know, he has reviewed that project and uh the idea of
the project uh that's going on is to hold more water back. So, it's taking a system that uh maybe isn't functioning as well, uh removing impervious surface and and supplying more um um uh
retention uh on the site. That's exactly the type of thing that you would want to do if you were going to hold water back from a from an area. So, I don't know the complaint uh uh from the folks. They're not uh um uh well informed on
that, I guess. Uh but uh again, we don't approve or disapprove those. We just not did not object. And the reason we did not object is because we see it as actually helping the situation. Uh you also just uh approved previous meeting
uh one of the studies uh that was uh forth will cover the area of Miller Lake. In addition to that, we've been working with the Department of Transportation uh on solutions. We also have worked on potential emergency solutions. Uh so we've been in contact uh with the
district on that, the water management district as well. and we'll be working with uh Deerry because the solutions uh for any kind of emergency or relief for Miller Lake uh one of the major options is going through the Deair system that's
currently in place but that system has limitations and so I believe you'll see going forward Deerry is looking at how they can expand the capacity of their system and maybe get an outfall to the river uh that would ultimately help uh
the Miller Lake or any other uh agency that would need to use that system. So, I just again a little bit of an update um on that. And Ben just uh arrived. Is there anything else I didn't hit?
No, sir. You got it. All right. Thanks. Can I'd like to ask one question just for um for my own knowledge and hopefully the people of Miller Lake if they're listening. George, you just said it would hold more
water back and that would be ideal. That's what needs to happen. I think they're focusing on whatever they read said more water was going to go through and I assume some will. But what I wanted to ask you, Ben, is that we've been talking about this a
long time. But one of the first discussions here in the council, I asked uh I I asked if we dug a retention pond, would it hold more water? And I thought you said no, it wouldn't because that area was so low, but I think I was
talking at the time about the massive parking lot behind the professional center. >> I don't know if you remember that conversation. Yeah, I think there was a discussion about >> acquiring the big lots area
>> and I think >> the Miller Lake folks have a couple of concerns. One is there's there's two situations. There's the catastrophic release of water which occurs in these large events like when 1792 is breached and all that water goes flying towards
Miller Lake and fills it up. So that's happened twice. It happened in Milton. It happened in Fay. in that in those particular situations, digging a retention pond in in upstream in those areas isn't going to help because that much water it breaks free and it's it's going. The
other concern I believe that the Miller Lake folks have is just the steady movement of water through the Royal Oak system which they contend fills up Miller Lake with water moving through pipes and across the surface. This type of pond they're a removing impervious.
So in these in these types of events, they're there's less runoff from impervious. They're removing 14,000 square ft of impervious and they're digging uh I think adding 22,000 cubic feet of storage. So in those type of events and the smaller events when that water might have been moving through the
system through the big lots pond through their system and then ultimately be big lots and then through the pipe under DOT it hasn't it may have an effect or I think it will have an effect based on what I've seen of reducing that flow which is something that they've argued for before
>> where is the location >> of the proposed area that we're going to >> it's actually um near it's on the royal Oak uh parking lot, existing parking lot near the Waw Wa Pond is where they're removing 14,000 square feet of concrete
and there's a natural kind of low area and they're digging out additional area to create retention. And one other thing is they're installing a backflow device to prevent water from backflowing onto them, which will help because that water takes space in their system and and
it'll leave more space for when that water is moving from the other direction. So, it'll help them hold water back. I think I took a look at the plans. I took a look at what's on the St. John's website of what's been submitted. I actually called the engineer of record just to confirm that
what I was looking at, my interpretation matched their intent and he did he did that basically their intent is to create additional storage volume on site to hold more water back. >> Okay. And that that is a location you told me wouldn't work. It won't work in
those large events when you have that catastrophic release of water. >> Is are this St. John's plans? >> Okay. >> It's a permit. There's a modification to the existing ERP permit for the Royal Oak Shopping Center. >> Okay.
>> All right. >> What was the elevation of the lake this week? >> Wawa. >> No. Um Lake Miller Lake. Y'all had received an email um a couple weeks ago. We had had a significant amount of rain. I think I forget. Um I think it was Miss
Kramer Lake had risen approximately six inches. Um and I responded I think in the we we measure the lake level week to week with a staff gauge. We take a photo that's timestamped and geollocated. And I think it had gone up an inch and a
half from that week to the previous week. And then from last week to this week, we just got a new reading today because they read it on Tuesday. It actually dropped down. So, it went up an inch and a half and came down an inch and a half. So, it's roughly the same level it was. >> Yeah. I asked her when they got here and she I thought she said it dropped more
than that. Um but she said they had a good week. It it did drop some, but >> um hopefully we're at the end of hurricane season now. >> Yep. Dry winter and we should see that water. >> But didn't we have
two or one last November? >> It's the end. It's the end of November. So, >> end of November. You got to get to the end of November. And one of the worst >> tropical storms we ever had here, >> Gordon, occurred right in the middle of November. >> But I'm known for my positivity.
>> Right. Were you Were you done, George? Okay, I'm done. >> County Attorney Michael Dyer. >> I have nothing. Thank you. Have a good night. >> Stunned. Okay, we'll go to council members. Uh,
sorry, Jake, but your name is up first today. >> That's what I hear. We're going to try to change that next uh next meeting. I'd like to be last. Put that put that in the record. Um, >> it does rotate. >> So,
thanks Ben and and uh and the county manager for talking about Miller Lakes and that permit. That that was interesting to me. I I I saw it when the emails were flowing back and forth. They said they're building a pond and they don't want it, but now I I kind of
understand what the backflow and the the issues associated. Um I um I'll skip that for now. Uh on November tomorrow on November 5th, I'm going to
CMI, Florida to Neo City to represent the county uh at the East Central Florida Regional Planning Conference. Um I I'll figure it out what we're doing there and report back. Uh it should be
pretty interesting, I suppose. Um but uh we're we're going way the heck out there. Um, you're not going, are you, Danny? God bless America. Um, so, so I got it. Uh, I'll report back on November, November 8th and 15th.
uh I have the the yearly opportunity and and it's they're there two great days for me to uh represent uh the Navy and help our Congressman Mills and Fine nominate the
next batch of US Naval Academy uh candidates to be nominated to go to the Naval Academy. Um, and I know you all can't be there, but what a rare opportunity to see anywhere
between 12 to 15 phenomenal graduates come up before us to try to be a naval officers and the army and the air force does the same thing. Um, it's just a phenomenal
opportunity. And it gives me not renewed faith, but faith but that that the next generation uh has a head on their shoulders and and they're going to lead us and protect the freedoms that we we enjoy right now. So I'm looking forward to that uh on those two Saturdays. And
um uh also I'd like to acknowledge that my own boss um Vice President Cheney uh passed away uh earlier this morning. Um, I spent three years with the gentleman. Um, he cared very much for our country,
cared very much for the freedoms we enjoy. Uh, I enjoyed working with him back then. Didn't always agree with with some of his decisions, but uh um um but it was a pleasure working in the White
House and working with him. and um my my thoughts go out to his family uh this week as they uh deal with that grief. And lastly, I'm very much looking forward to this coming year with our our
goals and uh and our budget. I I think I think we're all thinking in the right direction. Um, I just I want to make sure that we we do the right thing and don't carve to the bone because it feels
good to get down to the um uh to the lowest number. Uh remember that we have an obligation uh to our constituents, all of them, even the ones that don't vote, the youngsters. Uh uh and and um uh we got
to think about that as we move forward and and be true to what this community truly wants and uh not not what we want or not what others beyond our borders want. So, uh keep that in mind. I look
forward to working with everybody. Thank you. >> Thank you, uh Councilman Kent. >> Thank you, Chairman. And um since we're making recommendations, Chrissa, can you put me at the next meeting first and then one after that I'll be last. Um
Dr. Burba, great to have you back in these chambers. Uh it's good to see you here again and your level of um professionalism and your knowledge to your subject matter. Uh it's just it's good to have you. But um
Ben Bartlick gets my my top honors today. You you have been on top of your game lately and I I know I have noticed it >> lately >> more so lately >> and uh I'm appreciative of it. So So
thank you for for bringing that that agame. George, I had a request from some constituents. If you're driving up on North Beach Street to get to say my daughter's house or Suzanne Conchin's house, um when
there is a king tide, that road is underwater. And you don't know it's underwater until you used to not know until you got there. Now, at Tamoka State Park, there's a a reader sign that says, "Hey, turn
around. Water's under roads underwater." The question from the constituent was, "Can a trail cam be put up so that someone they can log on to the Valuchia website and take a
look at it and see if it's underwater or not?" Yeah, we'll look at that and we can look at putting the notice farther back too. >> And that was my next note that I had here was that the notice should be at >> Granada and Beach Street and then again
maybe a mile up the road from there. You know, maybe two notices before you get to Tamoka State Park, which is you're you're right there at that point. It just it makes you turn around and you're you're back 15 20 minutes. Um just a just an idea. Wilm is probably a good
spot because that's the last place you can turn and get. >> That is a great that is a great location. Miss Wisconsin. Yes. And then just because I'm curious, George, I know in Orman if if you're an Orman resident, someone mentioned baseball earlier, but if you're an Orman resident, you pay a
reduced rate to play baseball or any leisure services. If you're a county resident, do you pay a reduced rate to participate in the sports if you're say out of the county participating in the sports or is it the same? Do you know? I I don't know off the top of my head. I don't know.
>> I was looking for Tim, but I didn't see him. >> Do you know Dr. Burbal? You're going to take that top spot away from Ben, aren't you? >> Um I am competitive. Uh >> Ben, get ready. M >> So it is cheaper when you compare versus
out of county versus in county. So in county residents play pay a um a lower fee than ver out of county. >> Okay. I I was just I was just curious about that because it's got something rolling in my head. >> And then also if it's funded by echko we've run this we've run by run this
into this in some of our municipalities will they will charge to use a field uh less than they would charge a county resident versus a city resident? And that's not allowable by echo. So they'll adjust them when we point that out. >> Okay. All right. Thank Thank you. Uh
thank you very much. That's all. >> Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. >> Thank you, Chair Brad. Happy birthday. >> I had to steal that. Uh just a couple things. Um just when you thought it was safe, what am I going to bring up?
>> Nope. There you go. >> Um so some time ago when we first got elected, um the jail the the staffing levels were extremely low. I think it was 60 or 70 positions that we were down and we have brought those tremendously
back up. I may have referenced that uh before. Randa and Joe Deore, excellent job. Um we are we see some of those numbers coming down or going up I should say again which is normal but I also understand from Mr. Deore that we're
going to be doing four corrections classes per year which is awesome. Um about every quarter or so I get asked to go out to Daytona uh State College and talk to the recruits at every every class. So I've already committed to four
times next year. So um the level of individuals that we're hiring is awesome. It's great. Some of the I remember when I did this in the very beginning talking to that class, the conversation lasted about 15 20 minutes. now an hour and a half because you get
asked questions about government, not just corrections, not just law enforcement. So, that's good news I want to share with everybody. Um, >> we do have passed that higher standard back. >> Well, and the jury was still out on you, by the way. I just want to let you know, David. So, um,
the next thing I was going to ask, I know Randa, I think we've talked about I'm glad you're still here. Now that we have the animal control situation kind of bandated, if you will, um, and I know we've talked about it before, we used to have something
similar, uh, a dog program. They're at the jail. And I was doing some research and I know that Bvard County and Marian County have programs in their jails. >> The state prison system has a number of them. um tales program, pause and parole
program, greyhound advancement center, cuffs and collars, some are really cool names, but there is a plethora of programs out there that I don't I think I'd like to get to that. If we haven't started that, I would like to uh I don't know if it takes a vote to do that or a
motion to do that, but or just direction. >> Sure. I mean, that can happen. I think just with direction, it's something like you mentioned we have done before. >> I mean, I don't want to pile too much on, but that's an easy enough pro. It's not easy, I shouldn't say, because they're teaching them. It doesn't just
teach the dogs. It teaches the inmates patience and things of that nature on how to treat an animal. It's under supervision. You're not just letting every inmate out there deal on that. They would have to like we did before, right? >> We started, I think, with the female inmates before and maybe
>> reinvent that, so to speak, >> right? We can definitely take a look at that. >> And we have the dormitories now, so that makes it a lot easier to Well, let me research have the staff research that and then and I need to know a little bit more about what it would cost and staffing and all that. So that >> Okay. So, I'll make the motion for staff
to come back with some more information then. >> Thank you. That's okay. >> Any opposition? >> No second to that motion yet. >> No second to that yet. >> You made an actual motion. >> I made a motion. Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Let's let him sweat for a little bit. >> No. No. See, see, all because I told you
you were >> questions debate. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> I'm not gonna oppose my own. All right. Thank you, chair. And the last thing I have, um, once a year we go on vacation. I will not be here at the next meeting.
Um, I don't >> New. >> Yeah. When did you start going to vacation together? >> No. No. Definitely not with this guy. No. >> Something new. >> So, um, >> all right. So, everybody else show up. We won't have a >> Yeah. I just want to let once a year in
November we do that. I did in the first year because I was sick but I wasn't here. >> See you. >> And then so once a year we do this >> and that's all I have. Thank you. >> Okay. Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chair. Uh no, not a whole lot other than
I attended a U community meeting Sunday at the Taco Shack. Uh we are getting absolutely hammered in southeast Felia um by a group of people uh that are filing um ADA complaints uh and it's
it's hurting a lot of businesses um >> for food trucks. >> No, everything um some of them appear to be frivolous, some of them appear to be legit, but nonetheless uh I'd like to kind of think tank this.
I I and it's but it's for federal ADA um violations. Uh I don't think there's anything we can do at a local level. No ordinances, no um nothing like that, but u maybe think about it for a little while um of how we
can possibly work with our businesses better. I don't know if a um voluntary or complimentary uh inspection is the answer where they're not held liable. Um but um or or maybe a notice at their the
top of their their business receipts, something ADA, make sure you're ADA, but it it's something that uh what's happening isn't right. Um but uh maybe just think about it for a little bit. If you need more information, I'll
get it to you. Uh but uh other than that, everything is uh everything's good. Appreciate it. >> Have you discussed that with the county attorneys yet? >> I believe we hinted on a couple weeks ago. Um and and that's uh that's what's making
it difficult. I know um at the state level they had changed some policy uh a few years ago, a year or two ago uh to combat this uh these complaints, but I think there's like been 30 or 40 of these lawsuits filed in the last like
two years and they're just they're just settling, right? They're just trying to get that settlement money. Um but a couple of them have taken them to court and it's it's been over 100,000 and they have to pay the settlement. So, it's it's a little bit it feels a little bit like a racket, but it's putting my
people in a u bad spot. Um I don't know if we can make an appeal to our our federal um representatives formally. Hey, we need to look at this. >> I was going to suggest that we discuss with our federal lobbyist what the course might be.
>> If we can I don't know if you need direction for that or if there's a consensus, but um if >> I got a consensus, we get good with that. Yes. Good. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Councilman Santiago.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, um, can we get Brad to come up? Do you mind, Mr. Chair? Yeah. It's something I've been contemplating throughout this entire meeting today um to share with you all to see if there's any thought process on this. Um
Brett, how how do you know how many organizations we have out there in Valuchia County that help people with food? >> Um Carmen, >> approximately >> I'm going to turn to my uh right hand here. Um so we have two large ones that
we coordinate with, but they are also coordinate with the individual food banks. So that would be um our our large ones are um Second Harvest and Farm Share which I'm sure in the legislature.
>> Sure. Okay. And they work with other smaller organizations. Yes. Entities. >> Um yeah. The reason I ask Brad about this colleagues is that you know obviously what's happening on the national scale right now um with um the SNAP benefits
um it's you know if this if this lockdown excuse me government shutdown continues we're going to have a problem in our community across the nation there I found out today we have 71,000 people in Valuchia County that depend on the SNAP benefits 71,000 it's huge I never
would have guessed that number And you know, I wondered here today, you know, you know, we talk about core essential um and these are these are poor families that are struggling. And to my arts people out there, doesn't look like
you're going to get what you came here for today since I'm kind of like the next to the last speaker. Um, so I was wondering colleagues if we would support the concept for staff to prepare
something for us to make a final decision on at the next council meeting because I believe I just read that the government funded half a month's worth of uh SNAP benefits. I think the president just did that. Um, and I wondered if they could prepare
something for us to consider partnering with our two organizations to come up with a plan specific to this and whether or not we can redirect the $611,000 that's sitting out there to help our
Valuchia residents with food. Um, it's a real problem. I've met people that are that are struggling with it and you know that's food. So I wonder So what I'm going to ask for is that if if there's consensus to create something for us to
decide at the next meeting because that gives us two weeks if the government just funded it. If the government opens between now and then this is a non-issue, right? Or if they come up with a federal program, but I think in two weeks if we're still in the same position, it's I get it. It's probably
just a drop in the bucket, but it's something to keep people fed for a little bit longer to help partner with some of these food banks that are already stressed. And um feeding people, I think, is a really big priority for me. So, um I'm not asking for us to say
allocated 100% right now, but if there's support to give us a plan to execute with the $611,000 that um we currently have sitting out there still unallocated right now. Dave, >> David, may I ask a question? I ask you a question. >> Yeah.
>> Um >> you said that there was two that the county worked with. >> That that's what he said. >> But all these other the the cities, do we have a list? There's quite a bit. I've seen some activity on social media where there's a lot of places that are
>> rounding up this sort of stuff. >> We do. And so we have the list and we actually we have one scheduled food distribution event for Thursday, November 6th in Daytona. Um we we did one of these a couple of weeks ago as well. Uh so it cost us about $125,000.
This was federal grant money. Um to uh stock all the pantries in the area, you know, get their shelves stocked and then $125,000 to do a couple of these large scale food distribution events. At our last one, we helped nearly 500 families,
I believe. Um, so we wouldn't even need the entire amount, but we could certainly do some good if you the council gives us the direction. >> Brad, with that 450,000 that we approved earlier today for the emergency funds where people couldn't make ends, I see you smirking, but you know I'm going
there. Um, but I'm being serious. Can any of those be used as emergency funds for this? >> Sure. I mean, the council can direct us. It's general fund dollars to use those funds for this. Um,
>> it's almost >> it's all general fund, so it's all the same thing, >> right? But we can also use that other money. >> No, I'm okay. I'm just the same bucket though. >> Yeah, I get it. >> Do you Let me ask him. Were we still on you? Yeah. You or Carmen know if um
whatever the government does open up, is any of would any of this money be reimbursed the federal government? I don't I don't see it being reimbured because it's on an EBT card. So that would be they would get their money eventually. >> No, totally different program. You would
not get reimbured. It would just be it would go to the >> Okay. >> Still food bank >> considering taking a look at it. >> Yeah. Well, the reason I bring it up because I think the government funded half is what I read um or or portion of the month >> and that two weeks would put us in a
position to execute on something here. Make a decision, execute on something and we have these un unallocated funds. We don't have to use it all or use it all. I don't know. But give staff the direction, give two weeks, come up with a plan, but but a plan where all of that money goes, whatever we allocate goes to
the people. None of this 20% stuff, 25% keeping all of it to food. Got it. >> If there's consensus, just to come up with a plan and then we'll decide in two weeks. >> Yes. >> I I move to uh direct staff to come up with a plan uh for the 18th meeting.
>> Is it November 18th meeting? >> Second by Troy Kent. >> Did I hear that? >> Yes, I I I did say yes. and and that's because we're going to have two weeks to marinate on it, have staff come up with a plan and by then this could be over with the federal government like you said it could be a moot point but yes to
have the discussion. >> I was going to say is the direction or could we if it opens between now and then and we will stop that effort. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> There's 97 pantries in our county that we helped stock. So that would be the
the same again. >> Yeah. All I that's all I have, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Dempsey. >> Yeah. The only thing I would add, I think Channel 9 just released a news article. They said there's 38,000 that are households. And the sheriff's
office, I'm sorry. I am so sorry. The sheriff's office collaboration with the Jewish Federation, Walmart, and other donors. They're assisting the 38,000 households. So, there's a lot. >> They still can't hear you. >> Our sheriff and other organizations. And so if we can put that in the mix and our
calculations of how much is being sent to help these people, that's all I'd ask. >> No, I I agree. It needs to be reason it needs to be done responsibly. The number I got, the 71,000 was from the Department of Children and Families. >> Okay. Channel 9 says it's 38. So we can live passionate about. But
>> uh that's all I have. Thanks. >> Okay. Uh thank you. I'll go I'll go last. um is um she's she's not >> I went to um I'm sorry y'all can't read
my mind. Um I went to the uh uh LI conference instead of going to the U legislative uh delegation meeting. I appreciate our capable vice chair of going and but I chose to go to that because I also serve on the Indian River
Lagoon uh council and this conference was unusual. It was all about low impact development and how it affects the um the Indian River Lagoon, all of our bodies of water and it it was a very good conference. Um, and one of the
reasons it was so good is because it was opened by our own Samantha West who who was um I didn't know she was that good of a public speaker. Um, she was very at ease and what she talked about was um
the the lid program that we had here and um she became the the hit of the uh the conference for the the next two days. Um, you've probably some of staff has probably received quest requests for the
lid manual that was created by staff and and ENRAC. Um um it was just honestly it made me proud to be there and see the respect that that she uh uh earned and
um she made the the conference uh um really worthwhile and and changed some direction for for the next one. Um, so thank you, county manager, for sending her and just so that everybody knows she she really hit a a home run and did a
good job for us. Um that's really all I have except I wanted to say one thing because I didn't want to be flimp uh with you Don about um private property when you said should anybody besides the owner have something to do with it and I
said no and I know it surprised you and but I believe that and and here's why up in Deleon Springs where we live um I it took me six months to deal with a
property owner. Um, actually he was he might have even been a renter that was building pools there and he was burning the lungs out of people that lived around him cuz he was irresponsible. And I think that's why we need some zoning regulations. We have
another one on Arthur Road that's uh uh private property. It's got renters in there. They're using the um homebased business ordinance we passed that that I love, but he's abusing it and it's a traffic nightmare. Um staff knows who
I'm talking about because they've gone uh with code enforcement and been refused entrance. The reason that I say it's you can't just leave it up to the property owner is because unfortunately they're not all responsible and they all don't care about the life, health, and safety of
their of their neighbors. I can say if I could respond to that. >> You certainly can. >> But we have the court system. You know, you could have gone and got injunctive relief against your neighbor. I don't know why the government >> is seen as the fix all cure all of every single problem that comes up in people's
lives. I mean, that's why we have a court system. >> And that's the Miller Lake people. I'm glad the Miller Lake people are going to court. And I mean there's they're seeking uh remedies through the judicial system which is in my opinion really
you know the way our forefathers set up our government. I mean if if your neighbor agrees you does something to affect your property rights take them to court and you sue them and get injunctive relief or whatever public nuisance. I mean there's a lot of recourse but everybody
>> thinks that we're the cure all of every single problem in people's lives. And I just I don't agree with that. I think you there's >> well the reason in this case is because it was we we we did have zoning regulations and what they were doing was illegal.
>> So you go to the county who set the zoning regulations. My wife's lungs were burnt bad and we live a mile away, but we drive back and forth and and uh everybody doesn't have money to hire
hire a lawyer and go to court when it's something that should have been settled when he didn't follow the law. >> It's not. If it's illegal, you call the law, you call the executive branch of the government and let them deal either the state attorney or the sheriff's office or whoever's your um police. But
>> can we do that when they refuse entry to their property? Can we turn it over to somebody else? >> Who's it? >> It depends on what we're forcing. If it's a county code, we have code enforcement. If it's a state law, that that could be a criminal violation.
It wouldn't be us. depends on what the issue is. >> So what what Don is saying is true. Then the homeowner I I needed to go get an attorney when my life life when my wife's lungs were burnt.
>> That was my only recourse. We we didn't >> Well, I believe there was a code enforcement issue associated with that. So there was something that the county did >> and did successfully. >> I hear Don say but there could be other legal issues associated with a violation.
uh that go beyond a county code. So that would not involve us. >> I Your point's well taken. Thank you. I just wanted you to know why I >> No, I get it. >> Said what I said. >> I deal with smoke in my neighborhood too all the time. People burning all around
and it's just >> Is it mine? Because we have a lot of bonfires. >> It could be. We get a >> deal. All right. Uh with that at 3:51 we are adjourned.