It's a great book. >> It's very good. I can tell. >> Interesting. >> Good evening. Welcome to the holiday edition of the 2026 Valuchia County Charter Review Commission. Um, appreciative of everybody being here. Uh, Mark Watts, I'm the chair of the of
the commission. Pat Nory, the vice chair is sitting here with me. And um we'll start off with a roll call. Madam Secretary, >> be coming through the door too. >> Uh Mr. Watts >> present. >> Miss Nory >> Miss Bright.
>> Mr. Clayton >> here. >> Mr. Ingram >> here. >> Mr. >> Let me first off start by thanking staff. They've done a a really good job of kind of taking everything that we worked on at the last meeting and and I think distilling it into a couple of uh
good items. Um, so, uh, in any event, we'll have a a presentation by Lynn Typton, um, in a few minutes and, um, and then we've got some draft charter Matt for us to begin either saying, "Yep, we're good." Or, um, let's talk about these in a little bit more detail.
So, with that, um, we'll go ahead and get into our action items. We've got minutes. >> Make a motion to approve. >> Got a motion. Got a motion. Parker second. Nor is the first one I heard. Um, any discussion on the minutes? Any changes? All in favor signify by saying
I. >> I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Come on down. If you can just state your name and your address for the record. >> Uh, sure. Vivian Lord, 89 Chrysanthemuman Drive, Orman Beach. >> Okay. Florida, you have three minutes. >> Thanks. Um, I appreciate the opportunity
to voice my opinions as a I think the charter should have clear statement of the values that our county's art and science venues support. We value museums that display all forms of science and art. We value theaters that provide a variety of performances for our citizens to choose from. They do not visit to see
acres of houses and pavement parks. The charter should have concise statement describes different types of parks based on our growing population and means of sustainability including low impact development, flood plane and mature tree maintenance and electric mass transportation and other public
vehicles. Water management. The charter should include a plan that's quality and factualbased education for all children no matter their race, ethnic group or socioeconomic status. This statement should support the importance of input from educators who are trained state and emry riddle aeronomic universities. A
statement of the importance of support for higher education should be included. And last, home affordability treatment for all residents. The charter should include a description of the balance between affordable housing for all Again, if you just state your name and address
for the record. >> Hey, good evening. Greg Gimbert, 255 Uclid Avenue. Disrespected about why I'm going to do something outside of your committee. It has absolutely nothing to do with any of you including and especially Mr. Dyer there. The fact seen
and as Mr. Johnson knows there's a lot of people snookered about this wasn't going to come here in our lifetime and it's not a threat. Y'all only seen as Deltona's getting ready to shoot their poopy water in the aquafer. It's not all of you people here were selected for a reason because you got the community clout to push something through on the
weight of your name alone and that's exactly why I'm here tonight. It's not going to come. It wasn't too many years ago we had people saying it's never going to be in our lifetime. They forget forbid the chairman from even talking about it. So, with all due respect, I can't count on the county council
benefit of your wisdom and to just get right to the point. I know you've also had people come here and ask you to do the complete opposite. We have a candidate out of the land that came and ask you to mandate do your job here and do the part that's not done. Lend your name to my charter amendment petition as
bringers of the petition exactly as I did with Let Valuchia Vote. And some of you may not have been around, but I need to preempt this. May I have 10 more seconds? The state's getting ready to preempt this. So I can't collect my petitions in 2026, file an injunction to hold till 2028. I need to get them now. I need to ballot qualify now. So I want
each of you to soul search. >> Right. >> Good evening. I'm a resident of Orman variety of issues. I've got a big one, right, that I think is worth your while and consideration in the establishment of a subcommittee
is it's a dangerous word, but a sub would they'd follow the form perhaps, right, of other of other counties that have similar citizens bills of rights, right? Including access to government, truth and government, public records, right to be heard, right to know in a
citizens bill of rights or in a preamble. I don't care how you do it. You guys, you guys run the car. You fix how it does not respect the boundaries of any particular city. I've been at a number of meetings where mayors complain, but the water comes in from
another city. The symbol that it recognizes the pressing issues that will not go away, the pressing issues that cannot be mitigated, the pressing issues that are that are persist. >> All right. Thank you very much for being
here this evening. Thanks for your comments. And uh timely Katherine Pentech, our final speaker >> of any conservation lands. I would like it to be um by charter amendment via the public.
Add something to to that. I have a couple written out, but I [snorts] want to add a blue green infrastructure and climate critical systems. Okay. You you want to talk about what you're handing out? >> No, I'll just let you read it. You can
do it. I mean, it's it's really long. It's going to be longer than three minutes. So, >> okay. >> If you would just consider that because I think there is there a proposal. >> Okay. And I got copies of your materials. We'll make sure they're distributed to the full board or full commission. >> All right. Anybody else that didn't fill
out a speaker card that would like to add anything? >> Excellent. Chair, can you open up your mic, please? >> Yeah, I just realized that. Um um I'm going to welcome Miss Lynn Tipton uh to the microphone and thank you for being here. Appreciate your willingness to
come out and and uh kind of on on relatively short notice uh give us a little bit of an over >> do that before and I apologize. I did put a couple of slides together and the reason Mr. Parker asked me is that he and I have had the pleasure of working together for decades and city charters
come into that and a part of my work at the Florida League of Cities in their educational programs was traveling amongst many of the cities to help charter review committees during my almost 35 years at the league. Tipton was the longtime Daytona Beach city
manager uh that knows some of you. And so I asked him to come tonight just because he doesn't get to see me do this very often. My sister Jennifer is here as well. And we're going to go get dinner after we're done tonight. So just just had to throw that part in. for the material that you're looking at just in
terms of general background there is national civic league started putting together in the late 1800s for the municipal part the 1900s for counties you need to know that this group was started by Teddy Rosenheime in forming
this group to then nationally work on models we are in the ninth edition now of the model charter And some of the material I'm sharing with you tonight is from that. The rest of it just obviously you know counties these this is more just background. I knew that
other people would be looking at the material in addition to you. But when you all got appointed I know the county attorney and others would have talked with you about the establishment of counties in Florida, how they're defined when we made the change from Dylan's rule to home rule. And yes, some of your
speakers mentioned the legislaturator's current work in trying to pull back on home rule, but constitutionally it is still in place, particularly when it comes to the ability of a county to write a charter. So, a lot of these ideas first came about in the 40s and
the 50s experimentally and very academically. Maryland and Virginia were some of the first to really embrace the notion of a commission manager or council manager form like you have and that's where a lot of Florida's early experiences were pulled from were both
Maryland and Virginia. So statistically I wanted to set this up as well in terms of looking at the counties as you know the m 25 out of the 67 are very small. As a result, when you look for peers, I
know that you can look around the state as a map, but I think geographically population and in terms of your scope of services, Manatee, Sarasota, Brevard, and Lee are coastal with an established
inner developed county. They are similar to you, very much in the scope of services. Population, you've got some variety, but this is Florida. And of these three that are the ones with county charters, Sarasota, Brevard, and Lee, you've got probably
the ability to almost go page by page comp uh comparably and find real similarities. Now, Lee has quite a bit larger a population in the last decade, but their history has been very similar in development to Valuchia.
Brevard obviously one county south, but they have not been a charter county as long as you have been. Yours is the very first Florida ever experienced. And as you know, it put in a number of things that no other county still has yet to do. For example, changing the name from
a county commission to a county council. You're still the only one. So for the forms where I want to spend the bulk of the time, when you think about whether you call it council manager or commission manager, it's 45 out of the 67. It's pretty
statistically secure. There are two that are elected executive, Miami Dade and Orange. Miami Dade's charter, as you know, is completely housed in the Florida Constitution. Oranges was voter approved. Okay. Miami Dade to amend theirs is a dual referenda
in the sense that it is voted on by the whole state of Florida as well as all the voters within Miami Dade. So, you really don't want to compare yourself ever to Miami Dade because it is such a one-off and an anomaly. When you look at the smallest of the
Florida counties, there is no form. Anything administrative is handled within the clerk of the court. These are mostly the counties that are 20,000 in population and less. Our very small rural counties. There is no manager. Some of them will name a position called
a county coordinator. There's also a position in Florida called a county supervisor. However, it is not a manager. It is someone who goes between the county commission, the five constitutional officers and the department heads in a coordinating role
and that's all the position is. So you're really if you focus on the 45, they have a form similar to yours. That is the bulk of Florida's counties. The two elected executives will spend a little time on that as well. That's the other difference.
I did go ahead and list all the counties with the charter just so you had it handy. And again, I'm aware that others are going to review these materials, and I wanted the list to be there. You're going to notice Duval is not listed with them because Duval is part of the city of Jacksonville's charter in writing,
even though everybody just says Jax Duval for short. Oops. Where did it go? All right. Because of the history with the commission manager form, the best thing is the second bullet. what they wanted
to do in the late 1890s into the early 1900s when this was being experimented with uh the notion was to replicate a corporation's role with their CEO and try to put that into the public sector so that the
elected body would have a trained professional to administer the government on a day-to-day basis leaving the council or the commission free to be representative and legislative and to also then have oversight but not have to dwell and
spend time on the day-to-day operations. This was quite a shift from past history where all of the department heads would simply line up at each meeting and respond to all of the county commission questions. Much more day-to-day involvement. As government grew more
complex, particularly in the area of utilities, this was viewed as a real advancement to bring professional management in. So your voters stockholders pick a board of directors commission who then hire a CEO manager
and that's the model. It is the most prevalent. We don't use the word popular. It's the most prevalent of the 18,000 municipalities in the US and of the 5,400 counties in states where the county gets to choose a form of
government. Obviously, there are states where constitutionally that does not occur. Since World War II, it has been the the absolute trend in selecting it in large part because of the complexity and because whether it's a county commission
or a city council, the nature of not being truly full-time or having a depth of background in the minutia of running a government. The professional manager can come and step in, hire professionals for the various department positions and
make recommendations to a council or commission in in step. The hallmarks of the form is that the commission in hiring the manager picks, hang on, I'm gonna go back. Picks the professional who then prepares the budget, all agenda
material, hires and fires all staff, and makes recommendations with all of the agenda material to the council or commission. Those hallmarks can get varied as you look at the different individual county charters. Uh there are
always exceptions to the rule, but these are considered the hallmarks of the form. And really from the early 1900s forward, it's also what's been endorsed by the National Civic League in their model for both counties and municipalities in large part again
because of the complexity of government and the need for experience that will transcend the turnover and of terms in office amongst the elected officials. All right. The elected executive form, obviously very similar to what is known
in the municipal world as a strong mayor, means that the charter defines an elected executive role. In most cases, at the municipal level, this person does not vote legislatively. However, for Florida, uh, Orange County, for example,
their elected executive does vote with the county commission in their case. Miami Dade, they didn't like the word chair either. They also went with mayor. Theirs is slightly different, but nonetheless, it's someone who is going
to be the elected executive or chief administrative officer for the county, the person who is responsible for the budget. Sometimes they are tasked with attending county commission meetings, especially if they vote. However, when they don't vote, then they are there to
be administrative either through their own uh individual self or they have a CEO, often a chief administrative officer that works for them and then that person attends the meetings to take direction from the commission.
It is not that common. Not in Florida. it is. When you look at the news and see headlines, many people assume that it is more common that it is, but I want to make sure statistically that it's understood. This is not Broward's form.
Broward is commission manager. However, they refer to their chair as a mayor. Monroe County also calls their chair a mayor, but they are commission manager. So, it can get very confusing if the only thing you've seen is a newspaper
article to know the actual forms. the commission manager variations. And I wanted to spend a couple of minutes here. How do you then select your chair in a 4-year term? The most common in charters in Florida is to rotate or
elect from within the council. Directly electing the chair is not as common. However, if you want to talk about the pros and cons, it gives you the on the other hand, it has been traditional within the commission
manager form of government to share leadership, which is why rotation or annual election and the county government. Now, larger cities, larger counties look to have that same figure head in place year
after year. That's what gets weighed against shared leadership. If all model, you'll have a year, you might be vice chair even a year and when crises arise, vice chairs often have to take over. But the training ground for it
traditionally has been that you spent that time getting ready for your year as chair. So just some food for thought directly electing for cities in particular, which is where I spent the bulk of my time. The issue that used to arise was if you
got someone you did not want, then it's a four-year term. There you sit. If you're rotating, you knew that within a year you were going to be changing the leadership. And that's really where the pros and cons come down. To the public, it gets confusing. Who is chair this
year? Who was chair last year? Who's going to be chair next year? I will tell you, in a digital age, it's a lot faster to Google that than it was in past times. it meant a call to the county building. It meant a call to city hall to figure out who was mayor. So, just
food for thought within that. I also wanted to make a note on the number of seats. Five up to 13. You all obviously have seven in the council manager and commission manager form. Five and seven are your most common numbers everywhere, not just in Florida.
So, we've got an anomaly with Broward at nine. And then of course Miami Dade very strange but 13. Jack Duval is 19. Yeah that's also yeah most people who've been on a council always say that hear that 19 and think no wayers are online in the
municipal codes library. The Florida Association of Counties has some very valuable statistics they can share as well. Really for the form itself though and to dive deeper is going to be your better resource. For some of the materials you'd want to ask
Mr. Parker to go in because they're behind a password. You also have members on staff who are ICMA members and they can go and get into that material as well. But if there were other statistics that you wanted to gather, these are really the best of the resources. So, I
did want to leave time for Q&A and uh if I can go back and repeat any of my other comments, I'd be glad to do that. I know I wanted to keep it to 20 minutes. So, Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I appreciate the information and I'm going to open up now
for any any questions or comments or or kind of followup from members of the commission. So, Miss Nory recognized. >> There we go. Um, what do you see when when you have an elected chair like we do in Valia
County? Uh, what are the constitutional or charter benefits? I don't know if that's the right agenda. Other than that, what does our county chair do? What are they allowed to do?
>> Well, they're correct. They can [clears throat] they can add to the uh agenda. They don't sit in directly on the agenda conference. >> Is that the only >> another another substantive addition would be at the organizational meeting
at the first of the year he selects which other council members serve on different committees >> of the council itself the public face which I will call the ceremonial role spokesperson during a crisis. There's the intergovernmental component of who
you would of the council. So there is both an intergovernmental >> expectation that they would reflect the will of the governing body. Yes. Correct. Which is usually not the personal which is usually why they go at that time. the intergovernmental piece
as well amongst the rest of the 67 counties for the time that he or she is chair also that's usually the most recognized position >> I've seen that as well >> yes >> um may I have one more question um
cities mostly have mayors that are elected would that be accurate or >> above directly elected but in the council manager form itself self which again is about twothirds of Florida cities. It is the rotation or the
election from within which means the same person can to run every year from within the council. The true rotation is extremely popular between 10,000 and 20,000 because of the desire for shared leadership and the chance to develop
someone into a potential leader. >> But o over 20,000 it's a little >> no above 50,000 you don't see it at all. been very helpful. I appreciate your time, >> Mr. Saknovski. >> Yeah. Hi. Thank you. Thanks very much for the presentation. I just had a quick
question here in Valuchia. Doesn't the chair also have the power that the idea is that if it's something he can't do, he selects um another commission council member to serve >> on the part of our chair.
Ex except that if I remember correctly, every chairman going back to my day, every chairman >> Yeah. >> made those decisions. Correct. >> I believe you're correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> If you have the chair for four years and
it that power exists for four years. >> I have some questions. >> Okay. >> All right. >> You have the >> um a few different all over all over the place. All right. So for starters um I have a question. How many councils and how many
commissions that discussion on the chair appointing um if anyone watches the first meeting of the year he usually coordinates that he comes in with idea but I'm just pointing out he usually does talk to everyone. He doesn't demand
anyone that would not work right. I mean people have schedules and jobs and so I'm just pointing that out. I mean it's not like he really the case. So >> yeah, I think there's historically at least while that authority rests there, I think there's typically been some
coordin some level of coordination >> about preeemptions in the state. You I think you said a number. Do you recall what the number of preeemptions currently is? Okay. So, this question may seem silly,
but it to me it's not. You're saying that at what point is it really not a charter if we have this many preeemptions? Good question. on your legitimate question. >> It it is very legitimate on a day-to-day
operational sense. The legislature by and law right there is if Senate Bill 180 stands going to be an even greater preeemption when it comes to some of the land use decisions both counties and municipalities make which is why there's efforts underway to defories.
Does it mean your charter has no respect whatsoever? I would say on specific issues we have holes in us shot straight through. local government does on your ability to function daytoday. You're >> on those counties that have u five or
more commissioners. We have five geographical and then two at large, one being the chair. Is there an advantage or disadvantage having at large in >> Okay. So your your ability to blend the two is definitely more in line with the
trends both nationally and in Florida. And it's actually the model city charter and the model county charter both speak very specifically to the nature of parochialism. A voice not tied to a district. >> The members of the commission have
questions or or comments they want to make? I will say incidentally that manager was Fred Marquis and said he was going to quit if that shift had had been made because he didn't want to have to deal with the feoms. So just it's an interesting dynamic. had they elect
their chair. >> And and on on behalf of the commission, I just want to say thank you for taking your time to to be here with you um with us this evening and for your family to be here as well and and uh going beyond just the service that you've provided to the state, which I know has been, you know,
>> I have to say this, Lynn started her professional career in Port Orange. >> I was the city's very first intern. >> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. Very good. >> Spent a whole summer. So yes. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you again on this as we get to kind of our planning our next
steps. Um moving to 5C >> I just have one question. >> Yes. >> In listening I wasn't here at the November meeting >> presentations we had at any individual meeting. So I think we were going to be doing that at the January meeting if I remember correctly. >> Yes. So the goal is so I met with with
staff to kind of talk through how to organize everything um after our last meeting and we >> moving on to 5C. Um we gave a lot of of work uh to staff uh at the last meeting. Um I want to thank them for we gave them
and distill it down into u the draft language that you see behind tab C. Um, and I don't want to necessarily go through these and then we'll kind of go through. Now, I don't suggest that we're going to um, you know, approve final
language tonight. What I what I think that the goal here is there's got to be a ballot summary that's included in it. What you see in the 16 um proposed amendments that have been drafted are basically staff's
translation of what we said at the last meeting or the you know we we ask staff to continue working on developing these and you know I think just one of the things that jumps out to me personally is I think we're going to lose voters if we have 16 items [laughter] on on there. So
>> 247 and 16 is I would have questions about So I have two and 15 well really language questions. >> Okay. >> Any others? Mr. Yes, >> I would hope that we can get this down to think we could consolidate some of
these to deal with uh the constitutional officers of the changes in that have to be >> addressed that should be able to be done with one amendment that it they have the authority to change it >> specific ones that that anybody wants discussion on. Mr. Clayton,
>> I have no questions about that. But some of us are very picky about dates and things. I believe our charter form of government came out Sep 19771. It happened while I was a senior I believe. I might be wrong on that.
>> But that was three or four years you were a senior. [laughter] >> Nothing further Mr. Clay. Okay. You had to say that. >> Yeah. I I'm I like Mr. Lewis. I think there are some that we could probably combine. And I was going to ask you specifically. Are we going to
>> topics for the next meeting? I think we may need to talk about whether we need to form any group to try and work on consolidation. >> I had one quick question on I can get backation lands. If anybody watched the the meeting on Tuesday, they would know how important this is that we do
something. I don't know that I agree with the language particularly on the registry and how that does, but I've got some ideas on on language that I think probably the staff would could guide us there. But uh I think that is an important amendment. >> Okay.
>> I think I think uh compensation would include how they're made up. I think like Dwight had was talking maybe we could consolidate all those together and and I would like to to see that >> if I can suggest it. >> Go back here.
>> 14 is the one relating to conservation lands. We'll talk about that one. Yep. >> 12. And and I have a question. Well, I'll wait till we have staff, but then there would be [sighs] see I don't think the council
organizational meeting date is something that needs to be in the charter. Um number three and well I don't see it as a number what we just spoke about with our uh present. I guess I'm going
to ask for some information from staff about um section uh the administrative department, the name changes, whether that could be done by resolution of the county council as opposed to going into the charter in in
an effort to keep those charter amendment uh down. >> Okay. Any other specific items you want to talk about that haven't been named already? >> All right. >> Four and four.
>> I'm just agreeing. I just want to make sure and 14. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And just >> in terms of consolidation, I agree with Miss Nory that for example, if if they were they were just consolidated. So there's certain things like the
department um there was one I think they called it a department director number 10 for examplees but they're let's say updates >> the other things are separate issues and I think deserve a separate spot so I don't think we should get hung up on the number of these because so many of them
can be consult >> okay >> only thing I would say just to be cautious is there's a single subject requirement >> so so Mr. I was going to turn to you. Can you talk a little bit about the idea of what you view in this current list that we could consolidate potentially into, you know,
>> because that's still a single subject. I think if you start deviating be beyond implementing amendment 10 to the constitution, you start maybe running a foul of that single subject requirement. It would need to be a separate ballot question. you required to have is by
statute a ballot title and it's capped at how long that is and a ballot summary up to 75 words. So you actually don't see all the language changes. >> Are there other items in here that may address different changes or different sections of the charter that could be
lump lumped into sort of a single subject of of revisions to charter for example. >> I think beyond amendment 10 my init. Okay. >> But it depends on what you know for example uh the item
sorry I had it here the one on directors uh item 10 on page 12. I think that is a separate issue even though you're kind of administratively updating it one you possibly can look at. I mean really the
impact of 13 is the your HR director is not independent of the county manager reports to the county manager. uh so when it's required so you know I would say if you did uh the the qualification
section for HR director are very they shall be selected on the basis of professional training and experience and personnel administration that's pretty broad right but there's it's still a director so the title would be I'm sorry What
what do you say >> the reference would be on if we were to approve this then it would just be the reference would be to department directors there's department directors is a broad obviously the HR direct structure now in the charter you had a
preliminary list of what those departments were but then it said those departments can be updated by council by ordinance which they have done Thank Mr. Chair. I I read these and the language is pretty clear in that it uses the word director, but it uses it in a
completely different fashion. They are not an elected official and we're cleaning up that. And so, but on the other side, we're answering the question of department director. She'll be the principal officer, the department responsible. We're talking about the same person, but two >> section if it's HR since it's already
covered by the right to appoint directors. Anyway, there's a lot of there's a we haven't even begun to discuss this. >> No. And I I think this and and kind of structural stuff, >> the charter to have a listing of departments and all of the other types
of things. >> It seems like that is uh a just a simple statement that the county council can establish. Ours is so detailed. It's very detailed >> and and I raised that question with the
county attorney when we were talking about the HR director. You could argue that the HR director that I think that from my perspective that whole section really is non-gerine. It should be the power of the council to establish the
same departments. Matter of fact, they're not. >> I think that's a a very good point. So I think there's there's probably a handful of things inated um you know amendment singular uh versus the list um and and
perhaps even you know that's that's where additional time from some members in the commission or uh you know to to kind of weigh in on that and and work on organizing that to bring it back to the full body. Does um from the commission standpoint would you group the the
discussion of or do we keep that as a separate discussion? >> I I I would say as that's a significant change whether we continue with the current process or whether we return to a more to the process we like within the
body politic. I think that's probably for right now. I think that's probably a separate just >> a little bit more focused get some of the you know some of this cut down so that we can get everything under a single subject. >> Um Mr. Senovski >> yeah about that issue of structure right
now we had a great presentation I think a lot of people learned a lot tonight I think that if you wanted to select three or four people to kind of maybe review options that's great to have a report in January but >> subcommittee level and and I'm thinking
Mr. chairman, we might need to meet more than once every one once a month uh to get some of this work to do some subcommitteees work. One of the things that I'd previously asked um staff to look at was you know the avail you know
January February in particular additional meeting nights where we could and even some of this discussion on consolidation like how could we >> even the name change you know from council to commission you you really probably could have a committee that's looking at that >> I think so >> um and um okay so we'll get to that
commission >> in reference to name change and I agree with it the name change. >> Do we have to put that in charter or I think we have >> by resolution. >> So, Mr. Dyer, though the charter refers to the elected body as a council, could
the council pass a resolution saying it identifies as a commission? >> I think that [laughter] that's one of those changes that I think you could maybe roll in with, you know, something dealing with the compensation and the,
you know, you know, >> council for a reason. I believe it should be changed but you can't I don't believe the county council can change it. I think it has to be changed the other way but it was made council so it looked like they were all together because they work >> in those have a fiscal impact a dollar
amount say if we decide to increase the salary of county council versus a simple name change or legislation. So, for instance, if I if we had a measure put on the ballot to rename the council to a commission and combined it with the
motion to increase the salary, those two wouldn't fly. We'd have to separate those out. Going to have one. But in talking about salary or benefits, uh I would imagine that those two definitely have to be separate. So, we just have to be careful in trying to combine too much
>> to shorten it up. And this may not be able to be done, but to shorten it up, if you just put in the sentence, the Valuchia County Council of Commission to be known as the council, the council or the commission that's formerly going to be known as Valuchia Council, then go
into the subject. Now, you put it in there and they're voting on requested information about how much it would cost to change it. And I believe you gave us5 to $10,000 and plaques, you know, that are already up and things
that are >> correct. >> That's correct. >> Which is often virtual as you said. Yes, >> that was our best guesstimate at the time. >> It's not a big expense. And I think that the part of that was typically when there's an election there's all those things are updated anyway um you know
after 2026 when some of the council or commission members council members whatever they are um may be different. >> So >> what would yeah I have two other areas that I think I would like to explore charter when it's already in the comp
plan and the council pretty much ignored comp plan language. I mean, I guess comp plan language was written so that up to a certain amount. Some kind of a a certain level of funding to the charter. I don't
like normally doing those kinds of things, but they, in my opinion, they ignored the comp plan. They ignored their own. I happen to like this very much. I just don't know whether it belongs in the charter as much as whether it could be a comprehensive plan
issue. >> What number is that, please? number 16, which would be a new my city is guilty of not provide not not participating the way they should, but I'm wondering if that could be done a different way. I
don't know, George. >> Well, it would have to be an interlocal agreement for them to >> you could do by interlocal agreement. >> Mr. Johnson, >> I think we're making a agree
that we should be following. I agree that we should be doing it. I'm not saying that, but you're running into a big problem. We don't know what's going to happen next year and the state could you have to cut some kind of very important funding in order to do this. I think this needs to be the citizens
pressuring the county council on what to do. Let the you know, I know it's it's a tough thing and I signed that letter right along with you because I agreed on it. But it's something we need to leave in the hands of the council because we can't tie the hands on funding in the future when we don't know what the
funding is going to be. >> We I I bring it up only because we've heard about it from the public several times and I thought we needed to discuss it. >> That's what I was about to say. Uh Mr. Johnson's made a motion to have 15 removed from our our discussion with
regard to cultural amendment as it at least as it's currently reflected in here. I'll second that. >> All right. So, any discussion? >> Yes. I didn't >> Mr. Saknowski. Well, Miss Shyber chimed in first >> right now either. >> Okay. Um,
the item doesn't currently have any funding attached to it. So, we're looking at >> of Valuchi County. So, we have to pair down somewhere. And I think this is one rather than putting especially what we can put out doesn't mean a damn thing.
So, I think, you know, let's let's just do away. Mr. Saknowski, >> thank you. The way I see this is that this again would be something that can be lumped in with a number of other issues that were brought up to by the public including this would be tailor made for a subcommittee. So in if that
if there were to be a subcommittee created to look at that option to include these various things says we something happening and right now they don't perceive that it's happening and it while it may not mean anything to us individually it definitely means something to the voters. So, we'll make
a motion to refer to a subcommittee along with the other issues that have been brought up because I think it's a generic thing, but so I agree with the idea of removing it. >> Motion. >> Okay, Mr. Johnson, >> that we put this in our recommendation letter to the council that they support
it. >> I second that. >> We second that amendment. Your motion and make a different motion. >> No, we would have to vote. I'm a I'm adding to the motion. >> Amended his motion. You're amending your motion. Okay. I'm amend
board. Can you modify aspect? Let's vote it down and start over. Let's get going. >> Okay. >> All right. Let's make We've got a motion on the the original motion on the floor. Do you want to just >> No, you can't do that. It's already on the floor and >> second's there's come back.
>> There is a textbook answer. Yes. And there's a practical one. Often what I see textbook answers is once you restate not spelled you're not supposed to withdraw it. However, in practice it is common for committees elected by IC to
ask a second if it will withdraw. Eagle answer. >> I would prefer to do that and allow Mr. Johnson to amend his original motion. That way we don't have to go through the practice of a vote and then we can proceed. Do you withdraw your second >> on our letter to the council
recommendation letter to the council that they we recommend strongly that they support the c encourage support or culture in the community and the council that they follow the will of the citizens about
supporting these this issue >> and I there's a motion >> and I reconfirm my second on that >> miss >> 16 because I I agree with 16. I think it's great. I just feel like it might be better suited for a recommendation
letter. >> And and I will say so I I drafted 16. So let me let me kind of tell you what my could incorporate or other specific things that you could incorporate into the charter. And I personally don't think you should put specifics of that nature into the charter
>> if we grant soy to have a little bit more leverage in that ordinance that they adopt. So either you go chase 16 interlocal agreements or you have an ordinance that the county council is empowered to pass that says
>> Mr. Chair I come from a law enforcement background as Sheriff Johnson does and we see on the ground the impact of too many layers of supervision when it comes to asses. We have the EOC, we have all of these other services in place where
we see this coordination already. And my concern is is we add yet another layer. There's a hurricane or or whatever and they want to look at that and and work with the different parties and great. But we already have all of these systems in place and there's already a time consuming process to make things happen.
So >> I mean we got to take good ideas and take them out. I think this is another one that we need to make a strong recommendation in our letter to the council and because uh like I said we got all kind I is your motion still in
place? >> Um I don't know that I made it a formal motion but >> she didn't make a formal motion at this point. >> I could make it as a formal motion and see the will of the >> What is the transportation planning organization? >> What is that? >> PO that's they do traffic. I know, but
what is it? It's It's capitalized. Is that a stat? >> Federal spend uh federal uh transportation dollars and it's actually >> So, what is that? A statutory organization? >> Yeah. >> Federal or state? >> Federal. >> Well, it's required by the feds. I think
it's established by the >> the less complicated the better. This is a great idea, >> but I don't know why it needs to be in the charter. >> So, that's why I support it. >> And if it doesn't work, you can't fix it for 10 years. >> That's right. >> Fair. back to my own city to ensure that
everybody is at the table. Charter language doesn't do that one way or the other, but but when we make a recommendation to the uh maybe not for the law enforcement side, I maybe but but I can tell you that I have specific
times when Delton >> and and I think you I agree with everything that's been said. Again, this is something I drafted based on just kind of watching what's happened after the last um storms really where it is. Um I will ask those who was on the council 10 years ago.
Who was on the county council 10 years ago that's sitting here? >> I left in 14. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Billy was there. Ben was there. I guess my only question to you is do you remember the things that were in the recommendation letter that came from the charter review commission? >> Can we get a copy of that?
>> Mark. Yes. I'm sorry. Sorry, Mber. >> I'm sorry. I have to interject. I have a question. Or when are we going to discuss what was brought to the podium tonight with us? Because trying to keep from voting no here, but to be honest, I would like to discuss that. So, I I'm curious when we're going to reach that
point. So let's talk about committees because I think we well you have a >> okay >> let's talk about some of the practicalities okay because you know I go back to 2004
when we had some there were a group of cities that came together and said county many of the major infrastructure the drainage system now I'm talking about the and I can just name the my what we were finding is that
there was some that's where all the major outfalls are at were saying we need to have somebody who coordinates details but I read this as a coordination which I think the county
could do but I uh but I because of their infrastructure that it's belongs the county has to assume that role because they are the major people who maintain that infrastructure. If you go back to the pre71
charter, okay, evolution and mosquito control, if you go back and read it and in fact the major canals were dug by them and are to be maintained by them, which then I think put
>> That's correct. Yeah. If you want me to >> add to that, I I would just say a couple things. Uh >> number one, >> if you want to work with us, then you're going to have to come to the meeting and attend or you're not going to get the
you're you're part of the money way to bring them together. Uh that'd be great. If not, we can bring them together other ways. Money usually being one of the quickest uh to do that. say in recent uh times isn't just from the outfalls that
we control. I mean, there are a lot of neighborhoods and things that have nothing to do with the county. >> Absolutely. >> Uh and so, but yet the county we want to help all either way you go, uh we're good. If you're into the thinning out mode, well, we do have another option
and I think that's a good way to look at it. If if you don't think it's going to make the final cut, then cut it now and and >> is sorely needed, but I don't know that it needs to be in the charter since we are trying to whittle down and we see that the county county manager office has really worked hard on this,
>> right? >> And it's at the forefront in everybody's mind >> and so he's already got another option there of making cities come to the table and work together on this. So, um, >> so we >> county manager's office for for working on this so strenuously since the
flooding. >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we have a motion and a second on the floor. Uh, any further discussion on the motion? >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat >> in the recommendation letter that goes to the county council that that general concept of coordination on the infrastructure?
Any further discussion, clarification? All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. I. So point of order then, Mr. Chair, >> Mr. Saknowski. >> Yeah. So are we going to create a subcommittee to draft this recommendation letter? Because there's no doubt that just based on my
>> things this evening, I think probably the best next step is to say what are the subcommittees that the group thinks we need to have. I think a drafting subcommittee is probably one of them that looks at uh the preparation of that amendments as well and put that into a committee that could bring forward a
proposal. I I I I really think based on the fact that the c that the state has their own uh item in their in your constit >> Yeah. If I could, it's entirely up to the commission on how they want to proceed. So, uh some here may disagree
with me and that's fine. You have seven you had 16 ideas. Well, here's my advice. I think you proceed at this point with concepts that either you support or you have an interest in exploring.
Rule that out. I mean, if you end up supporting what your colleagues have mentioned, you would be reserving uh sending seven of these topics in some way to >> Mr. Dyer, can you run through the the ones that um that you've got in your
list of seven to be pulled off? We have >> uh the contract one which is basically implementing the changes to Florida's >> two on page seven um the voting threshold
between uh >> correct >> uh excuse me three >> no no well I'm re Hold on a second I'm restating what you all have suggested >> restating is the ones that people have said we want to talk further about not the ones that we're eliminating. >> It's not what he said, but I got it now.
That's what I said. >> You got rid of some stating what the members of this commission have said they want and report. The next I have is 12
>> which was the 14 which was protecting conservation lands. >> I believe that's it. twothirds majority if I remember correctly as opposed to a majority. >> Yeah. Okay. Number two. I guess it is
number two. >> Number two. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. It's my understanding that the council doesn't vote on any of our amendments. We go directly to the ballot. Whatever we >> except uh the only minor exception is because of state
>> mentioned the uh I think it was six. Let me just double check here. Yeah. So number six it Having read read it again I only and it's not a it's just one want to consume the the commission's time this evening it's again something I'm happy to discuss in a subcommittee but
yes there is a lot behind that >> well yeah then >> conservation land as the additional one any other topic >> I would I would just include in the conservation the whole idea that of including it it because
>> conservation lands and I think that we have to be very specific in Valuchia in our Valuchia charter because if you had listened to the last council meeting you'd be >> and we could put it even if it was assigned to governmental structure just the idea that we have to respond to some
of these suggestions that we've been receiving agree so far we haven't been >> Mr. Dyer from a procedural >> with what we would like >> I would like yeah thank you that's a good >> I don't think we can do that him directly to him that would be an improper communication >> I was going to redirect in public Mr.
Saknowski, I was going to redirect that to staff. So, I'll appoint a chair and we'll move forward um with hopefully scheduling subcommittee meetings between now and the next meeting recognizing we also have the holidays in that in that gap. So, the other thing that we areing amendment committee and then a committee
to get into the discussion on conservation and other potential um kind of um I think it addresses conservation but also some of the other specific >> preference for any of those three. Please feel free to voice that >> and let us know. Uh we can
>> and and that was going to be I'm going to ask if you have an interest in being on it, you know, working with any of those specific subcommittees, if you'll email Mr. Booker. >> Uh I I would just say I would prefer that method that we did in the last two meetings. >> Sure. >> Yeah.
>> So, um I appreciate that. I will say and I apologize. I think the the page by pageuh probably is most effective going forward. All right. So, we're going to work on establishing those committees. Mr. Brown. >> Hey, Mr. Chair. Russ Brown, deputy county attorney in January. But I think
it needs to be done in in the open of the sunshine. Otherwise, I just don't want to create a situation where Mr. Booker is a conduit between you and the >> we could do if I have a question. I'm a little Mr. >> Help me out with the drafting committee
versus government structure committee. So drafting would be looking at the things that we've talked about not including in the charter and coming up with state >> structure >> government structure would be looking at taking the the presentation we looked at this se or heard this evening looking at
our current council configuration you know strong strong mission the pay the council to commission change things of that nature um I can go through and work with staff and specifically put the put those things together um but that would be the committee that's doing that work and then the a possible violation of the
sunshine law if we do directly to Brooker but not the rest of the rest of us. I don't think that I I might I have to respectfully disagree if we share with Mr. Booker >> Mr. Chair I think it's when the chair now gets involved is when the conduit
>> I think that's the point is me making the the uh out you know assignments outside >> want to push anything off I just >> Okay, Mr. Chair. >> Well then go around the table and ask everybody what they want to do. Let's go. We're going. >> How do we not violate sunshine? >> We would have to notice them publicly
and we would have to take minutes. >> Yeah. >> So, we're not going to violate >> by having the committees because we're going to operate completely. >> If we if we're using that conduit, it would be my action and in appointing those committees outside of the meeting.
That's the point that uh Mr. Brown's raising. It's not it's not the committee work. It's me taking that action >> and the letter to the council will all be one committee. Is that what we're saying? >> Drafting is a separate. >> Okay. >> So drafting is basically the the additional messaging that we want to go along >> getting it lumped in. Just making
>> government structures >> plus other issues raised by the public. >> Correct. So miss >> the government structure housekeeping is basically covering number one >> all those cleanups from >> I think you can include number two number three
number four number on personnel board and directors and everything else. So I think that there's a lot of work in that committee clearly. So, >> what are you going to do after everybody goes to one committee? You don't get any volunteers to the other committee.
>> I'm going to point you think might have the experience and and background to to hopefully, you know, help with this section of the of the work. Mr. Sakenovski, if I can ask you to be on that hands back up people that were interested in that, Mr. um let's see how many do we have there? One, two, three,
four, five, six, seven, eight. >> I can >> Yeah. Let me let me ask Miss Quietitech to be on that. Mr. Johnson, Miss Bright, and Miss Wheeler. Uh Mr. Johnson, Miss Bright, and Miss Wheeler.
>> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Um I um Mr. Lewis, Miss Shyer, Miss Walford, Miss Nory, >> let me let me see where we go on this one.
Correct. We good with that? >> That's five. >> That's five. >> All right. >> And then last the drafting committee or >> um that I think that's wise. I just would suggest asking staff to summarize
the various because we've had many meetings, many deferrals to the some we need to have a documented in my view. >> We we can work on pulling all that together. Um and then I think from the standpoint >> and then appoint your committee. >> Yeah. Um I think from the standpoint of
organizing committees it probably on the first committee. Could I ask you to chair that just based on your experience in government? Um I think you're probably the most qualified person at this >> I mean careful. [laughter] Right. And then um I think just based on uh kind of
the experience of working through things, Miss Nory, would you mind sharing the the other committee? Okay. So I will get with scheduled moving from here. I appreciate your willingness to work on that. Again, I apologize for the meeting uh running
the way that it did tonight. is going going to be completely different in my mind but this is sometimes I'm talked really about getting into the organizational items next steps we've got committees um put together um my suggestion for coming back and dealing with agendas we may or may not have
committee then I think our next agenda will kind of put together some presentations from the committees on the work that they're doing and kind of plans to move forward Mr. Clayton, >> I have a question about u as as a practical matter. Shouldn't we meet at the county administration? >> I I would imagine Miriam might be
appreciative of that as she sets up the >> I think we did committee meetings at the EOC. Um but it was at a it was at a in a >> other business any other business from the commission. Is there a motion to adjurnn? Second.
>> All right, we'll stand adjourned.