Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in 10 minutes. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey, hey.
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to the Valuchia County Council meeting. The meeting will begin in five minutes.
Hey, you know, let's call Yeah, we return. Mic check. One, two. Testing. One, two. Yeah, it feel again. Hey Welcome to the Valuchia County Council
meeting. The meeting will begin in 2 minutes. Okay, it is 9 o'clock. We will call the May 6, 2025 County Council meeting to order at 9ine. Just to give you an idea, as
usual, how we will start. In just a minute, I will ask you to stand if you care to for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. All faith groups are uh welcome to participate in the
invocation. If your faith group would like to do that, please just send an email to K, the letter K green.org and she will get you uh set up uh to do that. This morning we have uh
the Reverend Neil Ganzel of Coina Presbyterian Church in Orman Beach. So if you would care to stand with me, Pastor Ganzel, thank you for being here. Thank you. Join me as I pray. Father, we we
recognize that we are people made in your image. All of us, male, female, black, white, any part of what the human race is like. They bear all of us. We bear all of us your image. And we thank you in the governance of your of of of
people anywhere that you're in you. You're you're interested in that. We thank you for the governance of this body. We thank you for the good service that they have given and continue to give to Valuchia County and its citizens. We ask you Lord in this meeting that you would give them wisdom
as they talk to one another and uh father good counselss and then an ovir father as the uh in during this during this uh meeting the citizens stand up and have something to say. May all be done, Lord. Uh remembering that as that
the teachings of the New Testament and the Old uh say that kings and all those in rulers and authority over people will themselves one day give an account in the great size, the great judgment for all that we've done. Recognizing that
and realizing that the Lord Jesus Christ uh is alive, risen from the dead, and willing to help us in all of these things through the great power of the Holy Spirit. Father, please bless this meeting. Thank you again for the governance of Valuchia County that we
see uh every month working in this building. Give these men and women great wisdom as they do what they do here today. I pray this all in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Would you call the role, please? Mr. Kent.
Mr. Kent is here. Mr. Reinhardt. Mr. Robbins. Mr. Santiago here. Mr. Dempsey here. Mr. Johansson here. Mr. Brower here. We have a quorum. Have a 100% here.
Um I will give the uh the audience, the participants and the council some uh some fair warning. Um, I think I can say this, Don, that uh, Councilman Dempsey will have to
leave right after one for a very important case that involved a local matter. Um, so if we can, if the council can make it, I'm going to try and push push the wall for lunch at that time.
And um, Mr. Santiago is already getting worried. He came in hungry. I did. So, um, so for those of you that are waiting for items, we're going to we're going to try and get through uh everything as quickly as possible,
starting uh as efficiently as possible, giving it the time that it deserves. But we'll start with uh public comments. When I call your name, please come to the front. Make sure that there's a microphone right in in in front of you
so that we can hear you. The podium actually can go up and down. There'll be a timer on this on the monitor in front of you and the screen behind me. Um, you'll have three minutes to talk about anything that pertains to Valuchia County business that this council may be
able to act on. Um, you have a lot of uh uh freedom with the first amendment. I'm going to ask you to handle that in in the sphere of liberty.
Um, liberty says that uh you're respectful of those around you. So, while you can say anything you want about anyone of us, u we ran for office. We'll we'll take it. I just ask you to
be respectful of those around you. Um and if you cause a disturbance then then that is uh a means for um having you removed. I don't want to do that. I our chief
um responsibility as your representatives is to protect your um your rights. So first of all we will start with um Dr. Wendy Anderson.
She will be followed by Tracy Vandra. Good morning. Um, thank you all. I'm Dr. Wendy Anderson. I live in Dan District 1. On February 11th, when the LI comp plan changes were first discussed, Mr. Dempsey used his identity as a libertarian who prefers small government
with less regulation and free market approaches to build support among his colleagues on the dis for a voluntary and incentivized approach to encourage developers to use le rather than mandate it. I'd like to unpack that free market
and incentives don't go together. He used tariffs as an example of incentive but tariffs are paid by consumers to the government government. A better example of an incentive is a tax credit for electric cyber trucks, which is a government giveaway to the consumer, not
something the consumer has to pay extra for. But what's the difference really between a carrot and a stick? Both are ways to tip the scales in favor of one product over another, which is the exact opposite of a free market. But it is the big government's prerogative to
manipulate the economic landscapes to achieve desired outcomes. You all frequently invoke your shared values of small government, lower taxes and deregulation, except when it suits you to do otherwise. Incentives are not small government and reaching into not
just one but two public cookie jars to fund PET projects is also not small government. But you all frequency frequently reference a certain Mr. Chester who writes you many letters. He has trained you all to speak about core government responsibilities. Well, addressing past,
current, and future flooding risk is a core responsibility of even a small government. As I explained to you in the April 15th meeting, all of Mr. Kent's um flood mitigation ideas are low impact development. It would actually simplify
things for developers if we streamlined land development policies into that simpler regulatory framework compared to the current multiple chapters that are rife with mind-numbing details. A low impact development framework is the
small government option that is also more coste effective for developers according to several examples from Florida reviewed by UF professor Penman in 2013 a whole 12 years ago Mr. Robbins in your own district, the largest
development project on the horizon, Daring Park, is committed to LIID. If it were Snake Oil, I don't think they'd be playing along just for the optics. While Miami Corp is committed to using best practices for management of their agricultural operations, wetlands
protection, and urban development, ultimately they are in the business of making money. They wouldn't be using LI if it didn't make financial sense to do so. Other developers require stronger guidance. The LA language in the comp plan needs to be mandatory, not
voluntary. On April 15th, Mr. Kent, you said that you voted for it so you could bring it back up. Today is your chance to do that. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Tracy Vandra.
Vandra, and you will be followed by James Shepard. Yes. Hi, thanks for letting me speak. My name is Tracy Vandra and I'm doing my senior research at Stson University on low impact development and um through that can you hear me? Through that uh research I've
come to a number of these council meetings and I do remember one where everyone was wearing these bright orange shirts that said solutions not moratoriums and then this count this council voted on LIID ordinances to be voluntary. To me that's a suggestion not
a solution. So I sent out a survey to developers. I didn't get a great response, but they did agree that increased rainfall will impact their approach to development. Also, they thought that development strategies would change. Oh, sorry, next slide. In
the manner of cost savings. Uh they didn't think that corporate brand uh corporate responsibility and sustainability would be affected. But what they want you to do is they want you to show you the money. Next slide. So let's show you the money. Daniel Penman of the University of Florida did
a comprehensive costbenefit analysis of four projects in Central Florida. I'll run through them as quick as I can. Lake County, 170 acre acre residential development, used 26 storage areas connected by vegetated swailes,
replacing large retention basins. They had a 40% reduction in grading and an 85% reduction in length of piping. A 92% cost reduction over $2 million. Semino County 28 acres commercial development
used vegetated swailes in lot buffers and designated multifunctional park spaces for storm water attenuation. $1.2 million in savings and they achieved a 10% increase in buildable space by eliminating retention ponds.
Newberry 250 acre mixed development replaced 34 acres of traditional retention ponds with storm trails, bio retention basins, and they maintain 55 acres of green space for recreation and infiltration. A roadway development in
Bradenton implemented pvious sidewalks and bioalailes and they eliminated the use of retention ponds. So that's the key, the costbenefit analysis. You can see they all four saved money. Next slide. Low impact development works. We
did some LI models on four different uh development uh scenarios and LI performed the best in all of them. LI is more effective. It's it's costbenefit and it also take instead of taking the
water piping it elsewhere and letting the pollutants built up, it infiltrates it where it lands. That's what we need to do. Nature has already shown us how to do this development. So the time to start next slide was yesterday. We need
to mandate low impact development. It works. Thank you. Thank you, James Shepard. And you will be followed by John Nicholson. Hi, my name is Jim Shepard, District 1 to land. I'm here today to request that
you advise county staff not to mandate residential fire sprinklers in my new home in Glenwood Reserve. The permit application has been flagged with condition that I must add fire sprinklers to the plans. Glenwood Glenwood Reserve was created by resolution 2004-73. Fire sprinklers are not
mentioned anywhere in the resolution or development agreement. Fire services and growth management site HOA restrictions that state each home shall be provided with a fire sprinkler system. That restriction was removed in the fourth amendment to the declarations after a letter from the former director of
planning and development clarified the matter. Even if the clause was still in the declarations, it is not enforceable by the county as prescribed in the development agreement. The development agreement says that Valuchia County will not enforce private set agreements, covenants, easements or restrictions and
will only enforce what's in the development agreements and county ordinance. In my opinion, if the county would count if Lush County would not be trying to mandate sprinklers if they read and properly applied the development agreement, I have been provided with preliminary plats as documents to justify the fire sprinkler
requirement. The official plats in the plat book do not include any enforceable language about fire sprinklers. Florida statute 633.202 202 PN6 reads, "The fortifier prevention code does not apply to and no in code enforcement action
shall be brought with respect to zoning requirements or land use requirements. 27 of the 57 50 homes built in Glenwood Reserve do not have sprinklers. This was not a mistake, but a conscious decision by prior administrations to not mandate fire
sprinklers. The most recent home built in built last year does not have fire sprinklers. The Florida legislature makes clear through multiple statutes that it does not intend to burden single family residential structures with exorbitant with the exorbitant expense
of residential fire sprinklers. The Florida fire prevention code cited by the staff does not require fire sprinklers and the Florida life safety code does not apply to one family and two family dwellings. I will be sending an email detailing the flaws in the interpretation and application of the
development agreement, Florida prior prevention code and Florida statutes. I ask that instead of repeating the talking points that you undertake a serious review of the pertinent documents and arrive at the appropriate conclusion. Thank you.
Thank you for your comments, John Nicholson, followed by Laura Taylor. John Nixon, Daytona Beachside. Uh Jeff, thank you for saying that we are allowed to say anything we want about any of the commissioners before us. Um it gives me free reign to say um happy birthday,
Danny. It is uh about time that we now have adults across our uh commissioners. Um we have no little no little kids anymore. You're all over 40. Secondly, um I've been reading the Economists from uh England, the Mcleans
from Canada, and of course all of our newspapers are big on AI. Uh what have we as a county done? Because I don't recall over the last 40 years that anything's been said about what we're going to do about AI, how we're going to
change how the county is going to use AI or introduce it. uh if we have not I ask you to think because I do believe that AI is coming down the pike. It's a reality. Uh when I grew up there was no thing as computers. There was no any of
that. So uh you all grew up with no AI. Guess what? It's coming. So I'm asking you to think about how it could impact the county and how can we can benefit from it. Um beach accesses. I happened to go to a beach access and I
was just appalled by the condition. All right, the one up at um Bellair Plaza at Plaza Boulevard, uh it's over a year and it's rusting. The plants are gone. It is just a big cement gray cement area blocking the
beach from the residents. Then as you go down, you hit the approach just south of Belair Plaza. Again, we built this fortress-like uh approach that looks like a castle kind of thing that you have to
uh jump over with the railing to get to it, but no plants, no visual look of attraction. And most of our approaches have none. You just did ISB. ISB is about an acre of cement. No trees, no
plants, no nothing that would uh make you believe you're approaching a beach. It is denuted. It's terrible. Uh it's besides not the appearance is not nice. It's not functional. Um I'm asking you to think about that.
And lastly, they came before you on the um driving on the beach. They did not ask the city about driving on the beach. They did not ask the property owners about driving on the beach. They forgot to tell you that the reason to go to
that location was the amenities that were there. Well, 10 of the 13 amenities are now gone. There is no reason for people to go back to that location. You can go anywhere on the beach and park. So, why would people go to that particular location unless we can put
those things back in? There's no reason to put that there. So, I'm asking you to think very carefully before you do that. Thank you. Thank you. Lori Taylor, followed by Connie Colby, followed by David Hill. Good morning, members of the county
council. My name is Lori Taylor, and I'm a resident of Orman by the Seed, District 4. I stand before you today to plea for a remedy, if not a solution, for the citizens that have been victimized by the lawsuit between the Florida Tax Collectors and Florida Pace.gov.
I am one of 260 homeowners in Valuchia County that was approved by Florida.gov to obtain a loan for necessary home repairs. My loan was approved, but when it came time for the lender to pay the approved contractor, a lawsuit had been filed by the aforementioned parties and
my jurisdiction was no longer available for this program. I remind the county council that you voted for this. However, this program is still available in other cities within Valuchia County such as Port Orange. If I live just a few miles to the south, I would not be in this
predicament. As a citizen of Valuchia County, I am not receiving equal rights. When the loan company did not pay the contractor, he immediately filed a loan on my home for several,000 over the last agreed upon bill. I am now being sued for almost
$20,000 more than what I owe. Larry Bartlett has been quoted as saying his office was protecting citizens from large loans on their property that they didn't understand. I ask, if a homeowner can't understand a loan, will they understand what it means to have a lean on their home? If this loan was for
necessary home repairs, do they have the money to hire legal help to protect their homes? Where will the money come from to pay the contractor now that this type of loan is no longer available as this funding option is an alternative for people who don't qualify for a
typical loan? In an email, Will Roberts recognized this issue extends well beyond individual cases, affecting a significant number of Flidians who are now experiencing substantial financial hardship due to the program's unended
consequences. One unintended consequence is that a door has been opened for unscrupulous contractors to take the homes of your citizens. Constituents are in danger of losing their homes. the very thing that this lawsuit was to protect them from. I
understand that the county chairman is trying to find solutions and I have a few to propose. Identify the homes that are involved in the Florida Pace.gov debacle. Contractors not be allowed to charge exorbitant late fees and interest inflating the money owed
significantly. Leans and lawsuits will not be allowed on these homes until the matter is resolved in court and an alternative funding solution is found. I believe a county council that so quickly stopped this program will be able to quickly enact a
solution. Also, at a bare minimum, until solutions can be put in place, a contact number, a person, someone that knows this situ situation must be set up for constituents to call and be directed on what to do when they have no idea where to turn. I am terrified that I will lose
the home that I have owned for 20 years. I appreciate your time and I look forward to seeing solutions put in place to rectify this situation. Thank you for your comments. Uh Connie Colby, followed by David Hill, followed
by Peggy Hill. Good morning, Connie Colby, Orman Beach. Um I would like to speak to um the code of ordinances as it um applies to motocross. I have not heard a whole
lot about it. I did talk about it once. Um, article 2, park rule, section 8231. The intent of this section is to protect public lands of the county by regulating or prohibiting when necessary the use of motor vehicles in order to prevent
damage to or destruction of said lands. And the definition of the public park lands means any land in the county owned, leased or otherwise assigned over which the county has authority and are used by the general public for recreation or park park
purposes. Article three, rules relating to conservation lanes. There's a whole section I'm just reading skeletal. You need to read the details because I only get three minutes here. The intent is to provide uniform requirements and procedures for the public access and
recreational use of certain conservation lands. 82-43 Conservation Lands shall be open to the public for access on foot except where otherwise restricted or otherwise provided herein. 8249 Motor Vehicles.
Motor vehicles that are not licensed for highway use, including offhighway vehicles, are prohibited except for impaired mobility people or in an activity through which a special use authorization and they must be operated
by a licensed driver no more than 10 miles per hour. Swamp buggies and similar vehicles are prohibited on all conservation lands. Valuia Forever approved an entire property for accomplishing the mission of their board, not 50% of the property.
And nobody voted for motocross attempting to give them 50% of this land. 74% of the voters lost the ability to for echo ranking property as funds were redirected. The echo funds could be
used for restoration of the disturbed area of that property. Thank you. Thank you. David Hill, followed by Peggy Hill, followed by Shaun King. Hello. Uh Dave Hill, Miller Road.
I'm just going to show you some pictures of my front yard. You can hit the next one. That's a 52 year old pine tree. Next. Same one. Next. Next. Next.
Next. Okay. Thank you. So, I just wanted you all to to see a picture of my front yard. This is what I've been living with for probably the last six years. The pine tree that I had cut down in 2020 and 21 was killed by the flooding that started after Royal Oaks installed their
drains on and under Tmont Drive in 2017. From that time, my front yard started to flood. The water would come and go, and in 2021, it never went away. That pine tree was 52 years old. It didn't live in water. And uh you see what the water did
to it. My property used to be 300 ft away from Miller Lake. The county retention pond prior to 2017 went used to come and go with water as most retention ponds
do. After Royal Oaks installed their drains on and under Tmont Drive in 2017, the county retention pond has never been dry. It has always been wet and now is just an extension of Miller Lake. The water at this time in Miller Lake has
never been this high. The FDOT retention pond on Miller Road is close to spilling over into Miller Lake. Please pump this lake down and stop the flow of water coming from the 2017 Royal Oaks St. John's water management permit. If you
don't stop this water from coming into Miller Lake, the flooding of Miller Road will continue to happen. We will start losing homes and portions of Shady Lane will flood. The flooding won't be and hasn't been just docks and sheds. Its wells,
septic systems, tennis courts, driveways, access to homes, and more. The flooding has caused a tremendous loss of value to our properties. It's a lot more than just docks and sheds. Stop the 2017 Royal Oaks permitted system
from flooding Miller Lake and help us remove this water from Miller Lake. Thank you for your time. Peggy Hill followed by Sea King followed by Cynthia Slater. Uh, hi. My name is Peggy Hill and I live
on Miller Road um in Orange City. I have two photos to show you today. The first is Miller Lake as it was prior to the start of the damagecausing 2017 St. John's Water Management District permit which was given the go-ahad by Valuchia
County. The second photo I'd like to show you is from this past Saturday. The lake is still full and still ready to overflow when the drought ends. At your March meeting, the staff said emergency pumping, the emergency pumping order from St. John's
Water Management District had ended, so pumping was stopped. Why hasn't a new order been issued and pumping restarted? We need the water level to go down. Clearly, there's a problem with this permit as it's been modified and is not
doing what it was intended to do. Please tell your staff to send a letter to St. John's Water Management District to revoke the permit today. Thank you for your time. Sean King, followed by Cynthia Slater,
followed by Reginald Williams. Good morning, Sean King Deltona. I have an open letter to the Lucha County Council. This letter is written on behalf of numerous residents of Lucha County who wish to express their thoughts and concerns regarding the use of hate speech and racist
language on March 18th during a council meeting. During his public participation statement, resident Alec Rner used an extremely derogatory and offensive racial slur to refer to African-Americans. His bold usage of this degrading and disrespectful word
was delivered so nonchalant chalantly as if he was attending a barbecue with other like-minded individuals rather than presenting in a very public space county council chambers. This racial slur is discriminatory, hateful, and unacceptable. Once he finished speaking,
he walked away from the podium without correction or censorship from the county council of council of men. The lack of response from any of the council members suggests indifference regarding the harm harmful impact of such language in public forum and
highlights a failure to maintain order and decorum as outlined in the county charter which prohibits disruptive behavior like hand clapping, yelling, using profanity. The chair is responsible for ensuring appropriate behavior. However, no action was taken
against Mr. readers derogatory remarks while another audience comment was immediately addressed. It is acknowledged and understood that every individual has the right to freedom of speech as outlined in the first amendment of the United States Constitution. Still, there is a clear
distinction between appropriate free speech and inappropriate hate speech. Likewise, it is also acknowledged and understood that free speech and hate speech are polar opposites and that the type and this type of free speech used by Mr. Rner is hate speech and
inappropriate public behavior. When speech, which is also hate speech, is allowed in public chambers such as the county council, it compromises the quorum and sacrifice protection that safeguard public trust for all. Later, when interviewed for a follow-up
article, responses from the responses from the council members revealed mixed reaction with some acknowledging they should have intervened. Every resident deserves a civil and respectful environment in public meetings and Valuchia County Council and community must address these issues
collaboratively. We, the citizens of Lucha County, look forward to seeing what actions Lucha County leadership implements to ensure that racist, inappropriate language and behaviors are not used or condoned in a public space such as this county council chamber.
Lastly, I want to offer condolences to the Harris family um who lost a young man and also to uh the Williams family who son will have changes for the rest of his life. Thank you. Cynthia
Slater, followed by Reginald Williams, followed by Katherine Levenson. Good morning. Cynthia Slater, NAACP president for Daytona Beach. The first amendment of the United States Constitution protects freedom of speech,
enabling individuals to express their opinions without government interference. This includes both kind and offensive expressions as well as symbols and actions. However, this protection is not absolute. Types of speech like obscinities and incitements
to violence are not protected. Hate speech is expression that ver that vilifies or incites hatred against groups based on characteristics such as race, religion, sexual identity, gender identity, ethnicity, disability, or
national origin. It targets a de or dehumanizes individuals potentially leading to violence, threats or harassment and can significantly harm societal participation. While some forms may be seen as free speech, they are
still harmful, unethical, and most times will result in retaliation against the offender. Racial slurs, though not always direct threats, are often aimed at vilifying or inciting hatred against individuals or groups based on their
ethnicity, race, religion, sexual identity, or disability. When used, they serve to insult or offend leading targeted individuals to perceive them as personal attacks on themselves and their race. Racial slurs spoken publicly can
disrupt the atmosphere, provoking retaliation and highlighting the tension between freedom of expression and public safety. The n-word is a powerful symbol of hate and or oppression. Using it, even in justest or without malicious
intent, perpetuates racism and inflicts significant emotional and psychological harm on black people. In the past, the n-word originated during the era of slavery and was used to intimidate, harass, inflict emotional and psychological harm, dehumanize, and
degrade enslaved Africans and their descendants. Today, using the n-word continue to be deeply offensive due to its its historical association reinforces negative stereotypes, slavery, racism, systemic oppression,
intolerance, and violence against black people. While some black individuals have re have reclaimed or reappropriated the word within their own communities, this does not negate its harmfulness when used by others. It's important to
recognize the that the First Amendment does not protect all speech, particularly when it comes to ins incitement and obscinity. Freedom of speech allows for expressing opinions, but it doesn't excuse all forms of expression. Where
there's no specific law that mandates eviction for using racial slurs in government buildings, leadership has the responsibility to maintain safety and can remove individuals who create a disruptive environment. Thank you.
Thank you, Cynthia Reginald Williams. My name is Reginald William. I live at 505 West Valuchia Avenue in Dand, Florida. I'm here representing the Valuchia County African-American Leadership Council, which is an organization that has probably 50 uh
black uh entities that that participates with it. Uh also the Valuchia Rebels Coalition that has been addressing historic lynchings here in Valuchia County while also promoting community reconciliation and healing and also representing my
community. I was in the audience the day that Mr. Brad Rednum made his very derogatory, hateful, and disrespectful comment. I was I wasn't paying much attention because of his opening comments and proceeded to talk with the friend sitting next to me. When I heard the nword spoken, my first thought was,
did he say what he what I think he said. A silence seems to come over the audience. Uh at that time, as we all know, nothing was said to correct Mr. Redna as he finished his comments. I'm not here to bash the council because of the lack of addressing this issue at
that moment. I want to thank the council chair and count council members who acknowledged that this comment was inappropriate. However, what matters today is where where do we go from here? I believe we all agree that everyone has the right to freedom of speech. is
addressed earlier. African-Americans uh and or blacks and some whites fought for our civil rights which include the freedom to speak openly without fear of reprisal. However, we also understand that even free speech has limitations
and racial slurs uh and hateful, hurtful and disrespectful speech uh in the public space is inappropriate and should not be condoned. I am here to ask the county council to be proactive and take steps to prevent this from happening in
the future. Some suggestion suggested actions might be develop a code of conduct uh for public comment commentary in this chamber. Another maybe is to post that the the that uh code on the doors of the chamber so that everyone
coming into the chamber will know. Another may be if uh thought needed to train the council, you know, how to deal with this uh these types of initiatives or comments at the appropriate time and also ask staff to coordinate with the
Valuchia Remembers Coalition to promote and hold public forums addressing hard conversations for county citizens. Regardless of what actions this council may not may or may not choose to take, I believe it is the responsibility of all
of us, you know, to stand together and fight against racist, hurtful, and disrespectful speech. Baluchia County is a great place to live to live in and together we can make it better. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, Katherine
Levenson. Good morning. How are you guys doing today? Good morning, everyone. Anyway, um little review. So, Hurricane Milton hit in October of 24. It's been 7 months and we're in a drought, which is great
because we were drowning, at least at Miller Lake, Katherine Levenson, Miller Lake, by the way. Um so, what I'm showing you today is pictures of the dead oak trees. The reason why they're dead is because they were 4 feet underwater and oak trees don't survive in that. What I was told is these oak
trees are at least 150 years old. So that means it hasn't flooded this badly in at least 150 years. So the water has gone down a little bit with the pumping of Deerry which is over now which we would like you to please try to get reinstated because the lake is still super high.
It's higher than it was when after Ian uh and right before Milton. U next slide, please. Here's another set of dead trees. You can see the water line on these. That's how high it got. But notice they're all dead. Eventually,
they're all going to start to fall over, which next slide, please. You'll see they're starting to do that now. There are several trees just knocking into each other, knocking all over. They're a hazard and they're dying. And I I bought my property because of these beautiful oak trees
that are all dying. Next slide. Thank you. Here's another shot of dead trees right at the waterline. If you go around the lake, you can see all the trees that circle the lake are all dead. And it's really shameful and shocking that this happened because all the water came in
from north and south and eastern Orange City and was dumped into us. Unbelievable that it is. And and we had no idea until two weeks after Milton when the water finally stopped flowing in so heavy. Still flowing in but less
heavy. Next slide, please. Uh oh, sideways. Okay, so this one still sideways. It's still sideways. Anyway, that's also dead trees. That's what I'm showing you. Yeah, there you go. Thank you so much. Uh dead trees again. Just
letting you know the the cost of this water influx has not stopped yet. Keep going to the next one. Uh this was the sideways one again. There you go. Okay. So, this is prior to Milton, prior to uh
Ian. It is my property line where it is a dock that is not flooded. As you can see, it's completely You can see the goats on the side where there because that's a goat side and the other side is the dock. Look how dry it is. really crazy. That's the day that I bought my
property. That's the day. Next slide. It's a little sideways. Got to turn it a little bit. Anyhow, um this is after Milton. So any goats I had there, which thank God I didn't, would have been dead. Please, if you could try to
resolve this. Thank you so much. Thank you for your comments. Uh Susan Van Burnham followed by Suzanne Shyber, followed by Kelly Fost. Good morning. Thank you for letting me speak. My name is Susan Van Burnham. I'm the president of Sorba
Orlando. And I'm also a member of Faster, which is the Flaggler area single track riders. Uh two of their trails are Spruce Creek and Chuck Lennon. We are part of Sorba, which is the Southern Off-Road Bicycle Association, and we have 47 chapters in seven states and over 10,000 members. I
wanted to talk about the 356 acres that were purchased for motocross and um bring to your attention that we could possibly add mountain bike trails or multi-use trails to that area. Um we just had a grand opening in Castleberry at Wheels Park. It was a great grand
opening. They have a pump track in there by VO Solutions. Um these parks uh it brought a lot of people. Uh they build resiliency and and self-confidence in uh engagement for kids of all ages. um gets children off the couch and moving. Um
helps moderate emotion, improves focus and concentration. Um so Sorba is um again we have 47 chapters and we help build and maintain uh mountain bike trails and single track trails and uh we help out with parks. So with Castleberry um we
were there for the grand opening and um again it was a great turnout with a lot of a lot of people. So, we just want to promote more uh more mountain bike trails or multi-use trails. Again, if that property is going to be um uh set for motocross, maybe you can think about
adding uh more around the the motocross for uh mountain bike trails, multi-use trails. A lot of what we do is hope that um the pave trails connect to these uh multi-use uh single track trails. So you can ride your uh bike on the pave trail
and then go into the mountain bike trails. Again, we help build and maintain those trails. Um as Orlando, we have eight trails that we build and maintain. Um and again, Spruce Creek is a wonderful place. Uh eight eight 16 miles of trail that are built and
maintained by the faster group. And the other thing I wanted to bring up is the adaptive part of this, which is uh very much needed in Florida. These are uh trails that are designed for adaptive riders. Uh they are uh bikes that are
modified to fit uh people with mobility issues and disabilities. So these adaptive trails are wider and they accommodate these bikes for adaptive riders. I can't think of any uh trails in Florida that have these. And I'm in Orlando. I'm trying to get a mountain
bike uh pump track designed with adaptive section. So, I think the adaptive riders are really in need of trails. And I think if if this property or any other property um can be thought of for mountain biking, single track trails, and adaptive riders, I think it
it would be great. Uh they're not just two wheelers. They're tools for social change, providing sustainable transport while weaving the fabric of a tight-knit community. Um and these are not just ways of getting around. They're community builders. So, I hope you'll think about that. Thank you for your
time. Thank you for your comment. Suzanne Shyber, Kelly Fost, and Susie Peace will be last. Good morning, council. I'm Suzanne Shyberg representing Dream Green Valuchia. Um, I signed up to speak twice today. I'm just letting you know. Uh, on
Earth Day, April 22nd, the Florida Wildlife Corridor Foundation hosted a legislator's reception for Florida Wildlife Corridor Day at the Capitol Observatory. we attended in the photography showcase was the Florida Forever Lands purchase during the last year. It was a proud moment for the
Carter Quell Ranch photo representing Valuchia County's accomplishment. There was an interactive display for land purchased by Florida Forever throughout the entire state. The goal was to show state legislators where the funds went that they had approved by displaying
images of wildlife, land, farms, and nature in the gallery for future funding was the dis future funding was the discussion and the forecast is for a reduction. We all wait for the governor's approved budget. Overall, it
was a highly mo motivational event. June 3rd through the 5th, the same wildlife corridor foundation is holding the summit to take place in Orlando and we will be attending to further own education on land conservation and hopefully look forward to seeing staff
there. Thank you. Kelly Fost, you will be followed by Susie Peace and Christine Wake. Good morning. My name is Kelly Faustst and I live in Dand and uh currently I work at the
ocean center. Some of you people may recognize me. I work as a doc monitor and I've worked and done facility activities that go on at the ocean center. Um, the purpose of me coming to you today is uh the Ocean
Center dress code policy and I sent copies out to everybody. Hopefully I made enough just to show what it is and I'm modeling what the standard ocean center
um policy is. Um, I've worked there for almost two years and this is basically what I've worn the whole time I've been there. Now, the strange thing happened back on May 1st. Uh, I was approached by Courtney Murphy, who is a security
supervisor, and she immediately, you know, looked at my pants and accused me of wearing jeans. And I responded back to her. It's like, "No, these are not jeans. These are the same clothing that I've worn the whole two years I've worked there." And then she stated,
"Next time I see you, you better have a different pair of pants on." And I'm like, I'm not changing my pants because they're fine. So the following day, I was approached by Bill Lai, who is a event supervisor about the same issue.
He looked at my pants and said, "You you can't wear these pants anymore because you're in violation of the dress code policy." And I stated to him and like I'm in full compliance. Then he suggested I need to buy a new pair of
pants. I'm like, "It's not necessary because I'm in compliance." And he said, "Well, if you don't do this by the pants, I'm going to have to take it up to a higher level." So, I'm like, "I have nothing more to say." So, Sunday
afternoon, I get an email from Jacob Smith, the uh security manager, and basically I was supposed to work 10 days in May. he canled all my shifts and I have a copy of the email and it was very
vague and it just said due recent recent concerns regarding workrelated behavior. So, the only thing I could possibly think of is um in closing, I want to say I feel like I've, you know, helped people and I feel like I'm being
targeted and harassed by management and and supervisor people at the Ocean Center. And because of it, right now I, you know, they've pulled all my hours for May thinking I'm in violation of the dress code. I know you guys can't
personally, you know, do anything about it, but I just need to, you know, advocate for myself and, you know, hopefully something positive will come out of it. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, county manager, do you
have a comment now or can it wait till the end? I was just trying to point out that we have an established uh extensive grievance procedure that they were all instructed on what to use. So that was totally inappropriate and uh they should
be following the the uh the uh in-house um procedure for grievance and that's okay. Want to point out thank you. Thank you Susie. Peace. Hello, County Council guys. Uh, happy
birthday to uh, Mr. Robbins. Um, all right. I'm here to talk about the amazing State Road 44 bridge which is now operational. Have you all been across it? Maybe. Um it's quite a
beautiful white gleaming high bridge that's replaced the white hair bridge. Um a bridge is a metaphor for connections uh for past and present. It's an opportunity for naming and
recognizing an important landmark, event or person. And I'm here as a citizen from Dand, a member of Dand Historic Trust, Inc. to ask you to dedicate this bridge to a highly distinguished World
War II veteran from Valuchia County. And I'm speaking about Captain Frank Gardner Gould. Um he was the commanding officer of the US Navy destroyer USS Ste and engaged
with the Japanese in the Solomon Islands islands for which he received a naval cross. um others will be following me today to discuss this with you. Thank you very much. Thank you. And that concludes
our comments uh from from the public. Oh, what is your name? Okay. Good morning everybody. Christine Wake from Save Our Voting Rights Florida about the Silver Glenn issue. I wanted to stop by and bring you guys up to
speed. Um we managed to get our language rule change amendment on the SB1 1388 which was the governor's bill. We are currently passed the legislation. We're sitting on the governor's office desk waiting for it to be signed. What that gives us is the ability to change the
threshold. So originally the threshold was harm. It is now going to be significant harm and it also needs to be predominantly by vessels. And the other part of that rule change that we requested was that FWC now has the ability to modify what type of anchors
that they can use. They they were kind of handcuffed on that last law that was written. So we managed to win in legislation. I wanted to stop by and say one thank you because you guys have led the charge with me which then allowed Lake County, Marian County and everybody
else to kind of get in line. So heartfelt thank you Mr. Robbins. Thank you and happy birthday. Um also I wanted to ask you guys one more favor if we could rally and send an email or a notification off to the governor's office to ask him to please sign that
bill so it can be done and over with. Um, and when you guys take a break today, I'd like to get a picture with the group so I can publicly say thank you for all the work you guys have done with us. So, you're with Save Our Voting Rights? Yes. Did you change your name to match your organization?
Quake. No, that's I've had that name for a few years now. So, the irony in it. Yes. Thank you guys. Thank you. And I believe that concludes Did you just get one more item? Okay, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. I want to take a moment of personal
privilege if I may. Okay. Um, I just wanted to recognize uh former county council member Joyce Cusack who's in the audience, a former state representative for this area. I want to welcome you to the county council and uh thank you for attending. Thank you. And Mr. Chair, I think at the end of
comments, I'll probably add a recommendation as a procedure for any former members. Um, we we uh recognize them at the beginning of each meeting. So, thank you. Okay. All right. Item one, approval of the agenda. Um, do I have a motion to
approve the agenda as motion to approve Johansson? Second. Motion to approve by uh Councilman Johansson. A second was by Vice Chair Reinhardt. All in favor say I. I. Any
opposed? And that passes. uh 7 to zero. Okay. Second for the uh consent agenda and we will have one member of the public who wants to speak on item L. Did anyone have I'm going to ask you two
questions. Anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote? No votes. Anyone have an item they would like to uh comment on after the vote or before the vote? Your prerogative. Danny Robbins. I was just going to make
a motion to approve uh consent agenda as second. Johansson. Okay. Motion to approve by Danny Robbins, second by uh Jake Johansson. Before I call for the vote, let's uh bring the member of the public
up, Suzanne Shyber, for item L. Good morning, Suzanne Shyber, um Orman Beach. I have several important questions for the council and staff on item L. Valuchia Forever is a resource-based recreation land
conservation program. Can staff point to the definitions of resource-based recreation in the policy? I looked at many documents on the county website, but I don't see definitions. Shouldn't they be defined in what is voted in this council chamber today? I'm asking for
clarity and transparency for a taxpayer funded program. Are the resource-based definitions from FD and Valuchia Forever definitions? The definitions for Valuchia Forever. FD subdivides activities into resource-based and user-based recreation. FD defines
activity definitions as resource-based outdoor recreation as usually dependent on a particular element or combination of elements in the natural and cultural environments that cannot be easily duplicated by man. There is also user
oriented recreation in contrast that can generally be provided anywhere assuming the availability of space and funds for development. FD defines resourcebased and user oriented as follows. Bicycling, camping, canoeing, kayaking, freshwater
and saltwater boating, freshwater and saltwater fishing, freshwater swimming, hiking, bicycling, horseback riding, hunting, motorized OV riding, nature study, picnicking, saltwater beach
activities, visiting archaeological and historical sites. With the program in place for 24 years and precedents by conversation on public record, this committee inherited what had been in place for 20 years prior. What raised the question was when Councilman Dempsey
put the state statue on the screen when voting for Valuchia 44. That statute said outdoor recreation on conservation land. But that verbiage is not what citizens voted on in Valuchia County, which is resource-based recreation. Does the state statute take precedence over
resource-based liability purposes? That may be addressed liability, but not in our policies definitions of resource-based recreation. Are the land management plans up to date? Many LMPs on the website have dates from years ago, so it is impossible to tell if they
are on schedule or a one-time LMP. Can staff answer these questions, especially concerning the definitions of resource-based recreation and the Forever policy? There are four pages of FD resource-based recreation with definitions that I cannot cover at the
podium. The criteria the council votes on today with these questions are pertinent to being good stewards of our funding, policy, lands, history, resource-based recreation, and culture for our taxpayers. Thank you.
Thank you. And there is one more member of the public who would like to speak on item T. John Nicholson. John, Dona, Beach, Beach Side on T. Um Troy wanted more
um musicals uh events of that kind at the Ocean Center. Now, Tomstead created the tax on their hotel specifically to do two things. to keep the Ocean Center going and two to advertise to put heads
in beds. All right, those were the specifics when we put events on the one that I spoke on last week about getting caught in traffic because Peabody and the Ocean Center had it at the same time. All right, none of those people
came from the hotels where they could just walk across the street. There are 2,000 hotel rooms within walking distance. So almost everybody at these events will be locals and they'll be driving to the ocean center. What does that do to our taxes? What does that do
to the taxes to run the ocean center? What does that do to the hotels who need the hotel rooms rented? So um I understand the reasoning behind this. I like the idea that it was done at a time when we were remodeling the ocean
center. we're spending mega bucks. One of the best things to do is to make sure that if we were going to have an event there, it's going to be the best. All right. So, I like the idea that we're doing this. I just wonder about where the taxes are going to go up or down or
if it's going to be affected whatsoever. Did we look into that? If not, we need to look into it. Thank you. Thank you. That's the end of public comments on the consent agenda. We have a motion to approve uh by Councilman Robbins, a second by Councilman
Johansson. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Consent agenda is approved as written. That takes us to item three. Mr. Chair, we could I'm sorry. It's all
right. Are you interrupting for the county manager? George Rect. Yeah, we were just uh there was a question on the other item. We have an answer to that if good if would like to hear it. Yes, please.
Good morning, members of council. Brad Burbal, community services director. So, the the resolution before you today is evaluation criteria and some language changes. There are actually rules that were adopted by the council in 2006 that
kind of govern our conservation lands. Um, and those do have the definitions of resource-based. Um, uh, I believe uh or ATV or utility vehicle. Dr. Burbal. Yes. You're speaking on item 11.
No, I'm just so I'm just clarifying that there is I just want everybody to have the context of what you're talking about. Okay. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you. Continue, please. So, that's it. I just think that there are there's a separate resolution that kind of governs and has some of those definitions. I
just wanted to let council know. I'd be happy to share it with you. Okay. Question. You have a question for Brad? Yes. Regarding that. So, what you're saying is the statements that were made were inaccurate. Correct. Thank you. Okay.
Um I Are you here for item three? I'm here for item three. Yes. Thank you, chairman. Before we go to item three, may may I just because I' I'd hate for the moment to pass and not be able to say something about the comments about the ocean center. Okay. May I Thank you. Please,
council, I don't always um agree with Mr. Nicholson and and he knows that. But I'll just say, you know, part of what he said as far as the bed tax, which funds the ocean
center, is accurate, but he didn't mention that the ocean center was built with Valuchia County taxpayer dollars. That part wasn't mentioned. And I hold strong that we have to feed the
people that live here and they deserve to be able to attend their center. And I started with six events a year. I'm now up to a dozen I believe we should be doing. And with our great leadership at the Ocean Center, know where Lynn went, but I saw her. There she is. with our
great leadership at the Ocean Center and and to talk about the thousands of people that are coming and to say that they're not they're all locals and they're not staying in hotels is outlandish in my opinion
because as close as St. Augustine is to us and you've heard me talk about having to drive my wife to St. and Augustine to see musical acts that we're interested in. We will time to time spend the night there and it's 52 minutes from my doorstep to the St. Augustine
Amphitheater. So, we're spending our dollars to spend the night in St. John's County and there are others doing that as well. I just didn't want this moment to go by. I know we had 100% seven out of seven support on this and there's another side to this story and I would
just end with I think Lynn sent us the information. Miss Flanders, the Ocean Center this past year, I believe if my memory is right, was the most successful it has been in the history of the Ocean Center. So, I just say we we stick with
this path that we're on and we continue to offer incredible venues for our residents and our visitors alike. Whether it be a motocross event that I paid for my son and I to go to or a or a circus or the Harlem Globe Trotters or maybe one day
the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Just saying, you know, I won't even repeat what the chairman said. Um but thank you chairman for the the latitude there. Uh thank you. We're probably all thinking that. Uh okay.
Item three is ordinance 2025-11 amending section 1442 classification of dogs as dangerous. Right. So Random Matusi Act Director of Public Protection. This does change our ordinances related to dangerous dogs in
that it adds uh $100,000 liability insurance. This mirrors or it doesn't mirror exactly, but it's it's close to um recent legislation that passed and is awaiting signature right now, the Pam Rock Act, which also does establish up to $100,000 uh uh liability insurance or
at least, I'm sorry, $100,000 liability insurance. So, this this does kind of fall in line with that. There's some additional changes that we might need to um address down the road uh with regard to that statute, but this does focus on that um $100,000 insurance that was
requested back in July. Thank you. Uh questions for uh Councilman Kent. Yes. Why Why stop at 100,000? Why not why not make anybody that is foolish enough to own a
dangerous dog? And I believe to be dangerous, they had to have killed another animal or attacked a human. Why stop at a h 100,000? Why not say if you want to have a dangerous dog, we're going to make you have a writer on
that insurance policy of a million dollar minimum that that that's just the direction that we received. So I think it was at least $100,000 for the state statute currently. Mr. Can I that's awaiting signature. You and I discussed this a little bit. I think council has
discretion to go beyond that. There uh I did send something out. The state law just changed on dangerous dogs. We're waiting for the governor to sign it. It it mandates for the first time in state law $100,000 policy or more. Yeah. And and thank you, Mr. Dyer, for for sharing
that. And council Mr. Dyer and I had a couple of conversations about this issue in particular. And I believe you said that we we mirrored almost what what Orund is is doing with their liability of what they're making them have. Yes, sir. And uh you know, it's a good thing
I don't always rely on my memory because I think in that conversation I said, "Are you sure? I think it's a million dollars that they have there. I thought I voted on Well, you caused me to double check because I was afraid. Yeah. Right. So, um after the questions, well, I'll be happy to talk a little more with the council about that. Okay. Councilman Santiago. Yeah. I don't see anybody
else's ringed up, but you you took my question, so thank you. Um, I'm very scared of Bad Boy Dougley and uh, you ought to have some high limits. Um, Mr. Chairman, my thing is more commentary. I agree with you. We need to raise that up if if state law permits us
to do that. I'm okay with the million dollars. Any other questions for Oh, one other question, Mr. Chair. Sorry. Um, would that be uh, it has to be named? How how how is it written that it has to be named in the policy or it has to be a writer? I know that uh my colleague
mentioned a writer, but I'm I'm going to rely on our legal for that one. It's uh I believe let's see. So the requirement is uh in the amount of at least 100,000 covering any damage or injury which may be caused by the dangerous dog. Um so it has to be proof
of the liability insurance. Uh that includes coverage. So it would be however it most likely would be in a rider but it would just require coverage for dog bites. Has to be named somehow that it covers it. Yes. In the policy. And Mr. Chair, I move that we amend this
ordinance to have a limit of no less than $1 million. Second. Okay. Um I'm going to hold that just for a second. Don, did you have a question for staff before? Okay. Yeah, for I
guess or Russ or Mike or somebody, what's the what's the minimum requirement for auto insurance in this state? No, it's PIP. I know the the PIP is 10,000 if I remember correctly. So, that's all I just wanted to get ask that
question. Okay. Any other questions before we Okay. Uh, and Okay, Councilman Robbins, questions. Sorry, thanks Jake. Getting old.
Um, what classifies again? Can you go through uh the criteria to be labeled as a dangerous dog? Sure. Yeah, I'm going to bring up our expert, uh, Jennifer Meister, field supervisor for animal services. Um there are three
um different criteria um or three different types. So the first most common one is if a human is severely injured um or um killed. Uh severe injury is um anything needing stitches, sutures, reconstructive surgery. Um the
second type um is if a animal more than one animal or an animal on more than one occasion is severely injured or killed. And then the third type um is a dog based off of a affidavit from um multiple reliable um sorry multiple
reliable uh witnesses that a animal approached or attacked a person in a menacing fashion. So it doesn't even have to be specifically that a person or an animal was injured. It just has to be that the person um was approached in a menacing fashion by an animal and they
weren't defending their owner. they weren't um on their own property. Um yeah. And and in terms of uh other municipalities or or local governments, what do you see kind of the standard standardized rate
um for you know for this or are they just going to go with the state statute at this point? Are we seeing a million? Are we seeing 500,000? Trying to figure out the pros and cons. We had a requirement already of liability insurance have an amount set for our county. I'm not sure about the
other municipalities. So, so $100,000 was a little high for the other municipalities. I believe it was um let me see. I have it written down here. Well, all of the other information. So not less than um many
others had not less than 50,000 or not less than a 100,000. So Bvard County, Orman Beach, New Simra Beach, Deltona had language related to that, but 100,000 was kind of on the top end of that. Um uh so I don't believe the state statute specified an amount uh
previously. Uh so you know once it's signed go with you know that if the new state law is signed by the governor we're going to see a lot of amendments and we may have to come back to you with some other updates tweaks not related to the insurance because
before uh a minimum amount had not been established in the statute. Right. And and real real quick ma'am um in order to get classified as a dangerous dog there has to be several incences right. So, no. So, it's it's either a um like
what uh field off Supervisor Meister said. So, either multiple um uh severe attacks on other animals or or killed um a severe attack on a person were killed. Uh and then again that um um an
affidavit saying that an an a dog has approached in a in a mining fashion uh multiple times. Uh that is then our process is to deem a dog dangerous and then the appeal for that goes to a special magist. Because I remember and the only reason I ask is you know there
was a lot of cases in Daytona Beach when I was a police officer that go through this process that take the dog euthanize it. Yeah. Right. So you know once it gets to a certain point uh are they going to really release that dog back out there to now get insurance? It's
it's up to the it's up to the owner. So, um, if there's are there specific euthanasia requirements? Um, so the owner has the right if they choose to surrender the animal for euthanasia, then we would go forth with that. Um, the owner does have the right to appeal our decision, it would go through
special magistrate. Um, if the special magistrate determines that our our criteria is met, they would say that the animal has the final order that they are deemed. After that, the person does have the opportunity to go up to the circuit court to appeal. Um, after that decision
is determined, they can either comply um or they they can either comply with the requirements. So, getting the liability insurance, getting a proper enclosure, getting signage, um getting their animal fixed, vaccinated, microchipped. Um a lot of the requirements are basic requirements, but they're specified in
that ordinance as well. Um and then after that process they have the um they can either comply with surrendering the animal um for euthanasia or they comply with those requirements. Um if they don't comply with those requirements it is outlined that um they receive
citations for the amount of time that they are not in compliance or if the animal gets out an additional time and um severely injures a person or an animal at that point we have the the point to immediately remove and euthanize. Okay, I understand a little bit little bit better now. And do we
have any data in terms of uh how many cases uh this happens um in a year uh or over the last 5 years where um insurance would obviously make a difference, you know, cuz I'm as I'm sitting here and Mr. Dempsey brought up a kind of good
point and we obviously we all want to do um the best we can do but um trying to sometimes logic comes comes into it. Uh do we have any data on how many cases that this would kind of
influence? Sure. So we have um kind of a handful of dogs every year that are deemed dangerous. So 2024 for instance had three dogs deemed dangerous. um and uh three were ultimately um destroyed or
euthanized uh for uh after that. Um there are I mean the the the requirements to own and maintain a dangerous dog are substantial uh and and many people do make that choice uh to to not how many dangerous dogs do we have
in Valuchia County right now that are registered? I don't have those numbers with me but as a for instance so three deemed dangerous and 24 one deemed dangerous and 23 two or um in 22 four deemed dangerous one deemed dangerous and um
and so many are um um uh surrendered by their uh owner you know for euthanasia humane euthanasia um you know because of those requirements but it's It's there's there's not many, you know, that are deemed dangerous, if any. Is
that safe to say? Rare, if any any rare, I would say. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Kent, did you have a question? Let me Can Let me slide a question in before we go to to debate. I I think Danny just got the answer. I I just want
to push it a little bit more. Um, if a person's accused of hurting somebody else, they're innocent until proven guilty. There's a court case. I don't think that happens with a dog. So, I'm interested in the process of say my daughter's walking a dog off of our
property and somebody stops and begins to harass her and the dog rips his bites him. Um, is he how does he how is that proven that it's the dog's fault and that he wasn't uh fairly protecting his
owner? So, every bite that we receive a report from is investigated. And so, as of for instance, just with those same stats that I gave you in 20 um 24, three dogs were ultimately deemed dangerous. There were 191 bite investigations. And
so our ACOs are are well-versed and well trained in identifying um instances where you know somebody might have been um provoked or a dog might have been provoked into an attack like that. So there is sub substantial investigation
that's done to deem a dog dangerous and then um ultimately if there is an appeal then all of that investigation goes into uh you know the the paperwork then that's presented to a special magistrate. Uh so yeah, so ultimately deeming a dog dangerous does not happen
with every single bite that occurs. So it's not an immediate death sentence. It's not No, it is not an immediate death sentence. And again, there's that there are the um requirements that somebody can follow uh if they choose to maintain and own that dangerous dog. Okay. Did you have a question or
comment? Okay. Uh Councilman Kent, sorry. Did you have a question? Question. Yes. Okay. Ma'am, you said earlier in response to Mr. Robin's question that it would be multiple u approaches to a p uh to another animal or a person in an aggressive manner to
be deemed dangerous. Mhm. that using John's idea of using I or AI. It says here that the Valuchia Countyy's dangerous dog ordinance classifies a dog as dangerous, severe injury, dog fighting, but it could also
be for an unprovoked menacing manner, which is if a dog is unprovoked, chases or approaches a person on public property in a menacing way, it can be deemed dangerous provided it's attested to by sworn statement. That sounds like one incident to me. Also, I looked at the
uh the county's definition. Did it go through? Here it is. The Valuchia County Animal Services declared dangerous dog list. And it says the same thing. Dog could be declared dangerous if without provocation chased
or approached a person on the streets or sidewalks or any public grounds in aggressive menacing fashion. So so long as it's attested to by sworn statements. So I might have misspoken or is that she's the expert?
So if if Troy's at the dog beach with Dudley and he goes after somebody's pet ferret, does that count now that Dudley is a dangerous dog? The So the only one that is uh a multiple instances is on an animal. So for a human, if they
approached a human in a menacing fashion um and it is attested to and we do the investigation and it's determined that um it meets the criteria, then we would uh issue paperwork for a sufficient cause for a dangerous dog. um if they severely injure a human on one instance,
that would be um determination for a dangerous dog. It it does require either multiple instances with the same animal or multiple animals for um for for be in the in the ordinance or I mean in the state statute. I don't see I haven't had time to thoroughly research this. I
didn't know we were going to get on this direction um to a million, but yeah, I just don't see anywhere in the ordinance where it says for that scenario, it has to be multiple events as opposed to one because if that person was holding the ferret and Dudley came up after him now,
how is to say, who's to say he wasn't going after the person or the ferret, right? That scenario would classify him then as potentially dangerous. Yes. for approaching the person. The for the animal, it's an animal that's severely injured or deceased on m on multiple uh
occasions. That's the state statute requirement. So, our our ordinance mirrors that. The difference in our ordinances is the the actual um requirements for compliance, but I can I can read all three from the state statute if you would like me to. So, this just completely tracks the state
statute. the ordinance does except for 14 which goes into the actual requirements for compliance. So the difference from our ordinance with the state statute is our additional requirements for compliance. So okay and
the state statute now is is it at 100,000 now insurance or that's what they're talking about there. That's what they're talking about is setting a $100,000 minimum. Yeah. The current state law is like our current ordinance. It did not identify an amount.
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Our current state law did not have any requirement for insurance at all. That was just our county ordinance that we were a little bit ahead of the game with that. Gotcha. We have another question from Councilman Santiago. Yeah. First, I wanted to correct Don. You said Dudley.
It's bad boy Dudley. Make sure you get the full name right. Um um so the the legislature I wanted two questions. The legislature now is just enacting the minimum correct but they did not cap us at a maximum. Is that
correct? That's correct. Correct. Okay. And and I though I hate to kind of bring this back, but I think it it helps in the context of understanding why owners of dangerous dogs should be held to a very very extreme standard and make them
think very much about their decision to maintain that animal after they're deemed dangerous. Question the the the juvenile that was killed by those two dogs. Yes, sir. And I know when it's a death involved, I understand that that
would cause the euthanization of the the animal in almost all cases. Had that child not been killed, this person could have kept those two dogs, they probably would have
been deemed dangerous, but they would have kept those two dogs in that neighborhood. They could have. Is that correct? Yes. That's correct. Correct. Yeah. And this is why I want to make sure as an individual council member that we held them to an extreme high standard. They want to think very
carefully if someone with those two dogs that are capable of doing what they did, they should be held to a very very high standard. And that's why I support the million-doll uh motion that's in play. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Are
there any more questions? Yes, sir. Jake. Okay. Councilman Johansson. So, you know, we keep on picking on Bad Boy Dudley, but if if he's out on the beach tomorrow,
um Mr. Kent's going to have him on a leash. If he's on a leash and he barks in a ferret, he's he's not a dangerous dog yet, right? Till till multiple people go, he was going to kill that person in the ferret, too. So, so and that goes through the process. Mhm. And
then at the end we determine that that the dog is a dangerous dog. Um, and so you're saying that that all those things have to comply. Uh, enclosed has to be, you
know, Mr. Kent's fence needs to be 20 feet high and and and no dog ever in in public can be off a leash anyhow, right? So that dog will be on a leash forever as as with any other dog in the public technically and muzzled, I believe.
Yeah. And muzzled. And and muzzled. Um so I'm I'm wondering I I guess I guess I'm dealing with common sense. So, I'm wondering if common sense prevails and you don't take your dangerous dog to the beach because
you're scared that you might end up euthanizing the damn thing. And that that where I live, I I don't have room for a fence for a dog in an enclosure, but many people do. And and
as long as we have those stipulations, if they not run free and they not menace, uh uh they have a right to their property, I guess. Um uh and and so I'm I'm kind of torn right now on this. I I get that we don't want dangerous dogs
running a muck on our beaches and in our public areas, but they shouldn't be to begin with. And and we should be able to hold uh hold those people accountable. Um so I'm I'm I'm kind of torn, but thank thanks for clarifying all those
stipulations for the dangerous dog. Okay. Yeah, this uh this went in in directions uh I don't think we all anticipated. Uh Mr. Robbins still has a question. Any other questions after
after Danny? Okay, go ahead, Mr. Robbins. Uh thank you, chair. Are you familiar with homeowner insurance coverages and and what they do when it comes to dogs? I am not that particularly for homeowner insurance coverages with I'm just
looking and I I'll just say it real quick and and I'm sorry for putting you on the spot but you know when we're talking about some of this stuff um you know I want to support my colleagues wherever I can I just don't want um when is too far too far and and and
when you see overlapping but homeowners insurance generally covers liability for instance involving dogs uh meaning it will cover medical bills legal fees and damages if your dog causes injury or damage damages uh someone else's property. However, it typically does not cover medical bills for your own dog uh
or damage to your own belongings. Um some insurance companies may uh exclude certain dog breeds uh or increase premiums for dogs. So, I was just trying to see u u if you guys are familiar with that, but not well versed in it. We could we do have our risk manager in the
back if you'd like him to pine. Danny, what you read is accurate. I used to be an insurance agent. I owned an agency. everything you said was exactly accurate with new policies. They ask those questions and some breeds are excluded. So, uh, so my question, uh, David, what
I'm trying to establish is, are we just wanting just to to to set a higher limit, uh, or an overlapping coverage? Um, my personal goal is to make it extremely difficult to maintain that dog
in Valuchia County. And if they want to keep it, they got to pay the premium. Got it. Thanks. Okay. All right. Um Troy, I know you had uh you wanted to start debate. Um and
apparently, uh Don as well, we have an amendment on the floor to raise the minimum insurance to $1 million. uh that was made by Santiago. Was there a second on that amendment? Yes, I second it.
Second by Kent. Um okay, Troy K. Thank you, Chairman. I'll start with the um obvious and that is Bad Boy Dudley. We have family friends that beat
me up because I refer to this dog as Bad Boy Dudley because they love him so much. Um, and my wife says it accurately, it's a good thing he's cute. Um, and and he is that, but if we're going to beat up on one of my dogs, I prefer that we beat up on that one
compared to sweet little Miss Daisy. So, thank you gentlemen for choosing the right one to to beat up on. And those that are fans of Bad Boy Dudley online, I'm sorry you had to hear all this today, but council, as the leading government
body in Valuchia County, uh I I believe we set the tone. And I don't always agree with Councilman Santiago, but he took the words out of my mouth, which is the reason for the million dollars
is if you want to continue to own a dog that is deemed dangerous. I think Valuchia County should make it extremely difficult for you. And if you're going to, then you need to make sure that you have the proper coverage to cover the permanent
disfiguring that happens to human beings when they get bit by a dog or god forbid the death of somebody that we had happen in in Valuchia County. What I have found
is that with any situation, I think most people are rational. But there are some people who become irrational about things. And one of those things I have witnessed
firsthand is people who own dogs that are dangerous. And there are people who they train their dogs to be dangerous. It's a I don't know if it's a sense of pride or a you know it's a
protection thing, but it's absolutely frightening. And and to go with what m uh Councilman Dempsey was saying about a ferret on the beach, which I don't think is legal, by the way, but Mr. Johansson is absolutely right. Every dog on our on
our beach is on a six- foot long leash, non- retractable, where you're holding on to your dog. So, those incidents are very unlikely to happen because the owner needs to be had their dog under control at all times. But if
you have a dog that is deemed dangerous because it has attacked another animal multiple times or attacked a human being then and you want to keep that animal. It is just my belief that you
need to make sure you have a a a policy that can cover the absolute destruction that that dog can bring into the lives of other people. and your own personal life if you're foolish enough to want to
own an animal like that. And then as far as the homeowners insurance, what if you don't own a home? What if you're one of the thousands upon thousands of renters in Valuchia County because you live in an
apartment complex? And I think it's telling, Mr. Santiago, when when you mentioned that, you know, when you're writing a homeowners insurance policy, I believe what I heard you say is there's certain types of dogs that are completely
excluded because of their temperament and the behaviors that have happened. Now, I want to publicly say this is not Troy Kent against dogs because you all know how much my family and I love dogs. I told you my wife and son are the best
two dog owners I know on planet earth. I don't know two other dogs that are more spoiled than Miss Daisy and Bad Boy Dudley by Heather and Wyatt Kent. Um that being said, if if we had a dog that was deemed dangerous and we decided to keep it, I live in Valuchia County and
I'm saying I would vote for myself to have to purchase a million dollar policy on having a dangerous dog in in our home. So, that's why I'm I'm I'm with you, Councilman Santiago. I appreciate the motion. And um it just it
doesn't say you can't own it. It just says if you want to own it in Valuchia County, um this is what you're you're going to have to to come to the table with. And it also lets the other municipalities in Valuchia County know where the leading government body is on this. Thank you, Chairman. Councilman
Dempsey. Yeah. I um I have a lot of question. Don, you got court today. You better save all your good stuff. I uh I I I understand where you guys are coming from. I understand why you guys are so um fearful of of this scenario,
but um you know, we have to remember that the biggest killer in our state are automobiles. I mean, you can't open a newspaper without seeing some tragedy on the highway. And yet we only require $20,000 insurance for people to drive an
automobile. The biggest killer in the state of Florida, an automobile and we only require $20,000 insurance. So there's a lot of tragedies that happen out there without insurance. We just had that whole big debate here with the medical lean ordinance that
tried to come through about the priority and the lack of money that that's there whenever people are significantly injured on the highways in an accident. So, I understand your your commitment, but there's also criminal penalties. If a dog is deemed dangerous and it gets out and injures somebody, there's
criminal sanctions that can happen. So, not only is it a financial thing, it's it's criminal. And I understand the the $100,000. I mean, I guess I get it. I mean, I was kind of okay coming in with this at 100 and our legislator, you know, legislation is kind of apparently
going to be set at 100. I don't know why we should outdo the state legislature by 10fold. If um if they deem it at 100, I think we should keep it at 100. And I hate to be the ones to tell you this to tell you this, but animals are just
property. I mean, so if a if you run over somebody's dog, you don't they don't get pain and suffering. They don't get lost wages or anything like that. It's basically the replacement value of a dog. And so it's not that much money um if an animal dies in a civil case. So
the $100,000 is probably a good benchmark. It's five times greater than the insurance needed to drive an automobile on the streets. And uh I just think a million is is excessive. I think it's going to equate to a death penalty
for the dog because your average person is not going to be able to afford the premiums. We have no idea what the premiums are going to be for a million-doll insurance policy, but I would imagine it's going to be the equivalent of trying to insure a burning building. I mean, there insurance
company in the world going to write a policy for a million dollars for I can't even imagine what that premium would be. So, it's just going to be a death sentence for the dog. And if we I mean if we want to put an animal down because they went after
another animal on the beach more than once, um I mean that just seems pretty extreme because we do have the criminal remedy for it. So I just I I mean I just think it's excessive. I'm on board for 100,000 even though I I think it's a little on
the high side. I think a million is kind of way out of bounds. So that's why I'm a no at the million mark. Thanks guys. Councilman Johansson. Thank you, sir. Um I can I imagine that that that this would exclude
uh any dog who attacks in a trespassing situation? My my my dog who who defends my property. Yeah, these are um I think the the deeming dangerous dogs. I mean, it's all part of the investigation.
Again, we have very few dangerous dogs that are deemed after a bite. um that would um be covered. These are unprovoked attacks really. Is that is what the dangerous dog? Yes. So there there are exclusions um in in there. So if somebody breaks into your home or the
animal um is deemed to be protecting their owner. So also if you're inside of the home and and you're having an altercation with somebody um and it's determined that your dog jumped in to defend you. Um and again that's part of the investigation, but there are exemptions in that. That's in the
current ordinance, right? So, so a solicitor that that enters my gate that says no soliciting when my dog's out playing in the backyard and and and he gets a little nip on the on the calf, that that's we're good with that. Yeah.
If if they if they jump the if they got in the fence, you said in the home, I'm talking about on the property. Property. Yes. Yes. So we have uh again with part of the investigation there's a lot of uh Amazon drivers actually that enter people's property um and uh again that's
part of the investigation but for the most part like we said we have many bite investigations. It's only if it's something severe and if there are exemptions um then that is the case. I believe I had a uh land surveyor who got severely injured but he completely
jumped their fence and um and the dogs defended their property. So, it would meet the criteria if the dogs got off their property um or the person was invited on the property and the injuries happened, but because the person jumped the fence and went on the property without their permission, um obviously
those dogs were exempt from that. All right. And and um yeah, we'll we'll see how the state goes with the with their with their law as well. Thank you very much, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, chair.
Um, it's amazing how council we get into these discussions with relation to dogs, dog beach, the dog kennel issue, now this. Um, I've gone back and forth. I mean, I was right along with you and I I still leaning that way. Um,
you too. Um, to and Don, you're right with respect to car insurance. I I get that, but the I don't see the car attacking people. I think the person driving the vehicle causes the accident or whatever,
but the dog, you know, dangerous dog is going to going to attack the individual. Uh the criminal sanctions, you're absolutely correct, but that doesn't usually pay the bills unless they file a civil lawsuit. Um and that's true. They can probably get more civil lawsuit for
the injury than they could the person that had the animal would receive in the in the civil lawsuit. So, it's kind of imbalance there. And then you got me when you talked about good luck trying to find an insurance company that would insure them. That lean me back to the other way. I said, "You're right. They're not going to be able to find
that." So, but I get I'm still undetermined. So, I hope somebody can swing me the right way. I just want to point that out. I had to point out the car thing. So, thank you though for your input. Appreciate it. Councilman Kent, Mr. Reinhardt, uh, your comments are very well received. Thank
you. Thank you for for sharing those well thoughtout comments. And to Councilman Dempsey, you know, you talked about the state requiring $20,000 for for auto insurance. Just it was interesting. I've got to bring up and that's funny because the state is has
sent to the governor to sign for dangerous dogs to have $100,000, five times more than what they require for auto insurance. Makes me scratch my head. So, we would, another comment was, you
know, we're outdoing the state legislature by 10 times. And to me, putting it at a million dollars does two things. Um, one of those things reminds me of Councilman Robbins whenever he brought
up and we voted on the uh new rules for sexual predators and offenders in Valuchia County, which you had a a great um defense on that and I'm I'm appreciative of that. But part of what Councilman Robbins
did was he said, and agree or disagree, and Don, like I said, I thought your points were were very valid, but basically what you said was not evolution county or if so, we're going to make it extremely difficult for you. So, I think
by doing this, not only are we that leading governing body of Valuchia County, but we also say two things. Not in Valuchia County. You have a dog deemed danger. Not in Valuchia County.
And if you do want it, you can get the insurance on that burning building. You can, but you're going to pay for it because I believe anybody um that has a dog that is deemed dangerous and still
brings that dog out in public to be around other people, other animals. Um, I I question their thought process. I don't want to hang around people like that. I don't want my family around people like that.
Um, there are people who take risky behaviors. And you know, I'm I'm our son, you hear heard me talk about Wyatt all the time, 18 years old, just got home from his first year of college. And we talk all the time about good, healthy decisions. You're not perfect, but gosh, you can't make these. You can't make bad
decisions on on the big things. The big things. I'll just tell you all one of the big things as we talk about is you can't text and drive. You can't do that, man. Distracted driving like you can't. That's a big one. Could change your life and that of others forever. So, if you
want to have um a a dog that's deemed dangerous, I want to make sure that this government body is doing all we can to protect those that are severely negatively impacted by
somebody who wants to have that type of risk in their lives. So, that's why I continue to support Councilman Santiago's I think very well
um thoughtout motion because I I I think it it it says and I I'll just repeat it one last time. It does two things. says, "We don't want that in Valuchia County." And if you do want to have it, you're going to have to make sure that you have enough protection to take care
of the absolute mayhem and destruction that you could bring because of past behaviors on and by your animal. Thank you,
Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I want to share a story kind of of my legislative days and then bring it home to to this particular issue. Um, I remember when we used to have the debates for the Airbnb issues and a lot of the complaints, you know, about the partying that's happening and
the neighbors and just that whole intense debate that often gets very little changes. when the the people that were advocating for strong rules uh against Airbnbs, um I would often tell
them, you know, they they would raise money for their efforts. And I said, "You only have to raise enough money to buy two houses. And where are those two houses located? Neighbor to the speaker of the house and neighbor to the Senate President and rent it out to college
students only." Right? And guess what will happen the next legislative session? There will be tough rules on Airbnbs that you want to see that benefit your cause. Now, how do I make that pertinent to what we're doing here? I hate to bring it up again, but those
two dogs that did kill that boy, had those dogs not if the if the child did not die, that person could have kept those two dogs in their neighborhood under very easy rules. You're their neighbor. You have
four kids. All right. Do you want to make it easy for that person to maintain those two dogs that have now been deemed dangerous and almost killed someone? I don't want to be there. So,
put yourself in that position and it could be it's someone else's neighbor. It's not me now. So, you know, we do rules, you know, for everybody. But if you really bring it down to that perspective, um I said it very clearly and I think Troy, you said it also. I want to make it very difficult for them to maintain
it. Not impossible. They may have to go out for surplus lines coverage and it may not be one of our traditional insurance companies like State Farm or something like that. A product will develop. Now with the state policy, what'll happen? It'll create a marketplace. May not be cheap. I'll
agree. But there's business folks out there that have their algorithms and figure out how to uh sell policies and a product will develop for people that want to make that decision and they'll pay handsomely for it. So um that's that's that's a reason why u I think
this is a good move and I agree Troy. Let's be leaders. Councilman Robbins. Thank you chair uh uh Troy. I appreciate uh the the analogy there and I I I do think it's a and I'm trying to get there. I do think it's a a message when we do um some of this
stuff, but just like uh with the sexual offenders and predators, I could have went up to 2500 ft, but um also understood that if I wanted to um still make a a positive impact, you know, we can't always hit a home run, even though
I would have liked to go to maybe 2500 uh like a lot of other places, but is there um can we still send a message and still gain consensus? and my proposal to the maker of the motion. Uh, you'll have my support.
Um, if we can still send this message and I want to support you guys. Would the maker of the motion be willing to amend it to 500,000? It still sends a message. It's still five times, you know, uh, the amount. I still think it's
going to be very hard uh to get that but but there is an excessive limit here because no matter the price of of a policy no matter any amount of money it's not going to bring that person back. It's a very tragic uh event that shouldn't happen, but it's very very
rare and whatnot. And uh I think would still send a great message, but I'll support you and I'll be interested to see uh I I think you may get some additional support. Correct. Uh yeah. You wanted to reply to
Councilman Robbins? Yes, sir. Okay. Um, you know, I don't know where the count is here, but I but I'll take a deal when I can get one. Um, and if 500,000 gets you to a yes, if my second
of the motion um would support it, um, I'll take that deal. I think it's still a very it's a high threshold. There's no doubt. Um, and I think we still uh would be leaders in in in our in our community. Uh, Mr. Troy, so I'll I'll modify my motion, Mr. chair to amend
from a million dollars to $500,000. Mr. Kent, chairman, may I respond? Yeah. Um, I too will take a deal when when I can get one, and I was counting up here as well, but
we haven't heard from the chairman really on this. I I do I do think it's close. Um, I'm hoping this will get Councilman Dempsey there because with the state requiring $20,000 auto insurance, but the dogs 100,000, it's five times, you know, the amount. This
is five times the amount that we were we were looking at that staff was bringing us. So, yes, I'll I'll I'll second your your amended motion to 500,000. Okay. So, now we're we're debating the amendment uh to of insurance policy of
$500,000. Um proposed by Santiago, second by Kent and uh Councilman Dempsey for debate. Can I ask a question? I allowed it for Jake, so I'm going to
allow it for you and then I'm going to allow it for myself. Oh, well, thank you. That's as fair as you can be. Um, ma'am, did I hear you correctly when you said earlier that the the average claim on a dog bite case is 100 or less? 100,000 or less? I don't think I made
any statement on the on the average claim or not the average, but the typically what they are. So, $100,000 is high. Ours have been general liability. Many other municipalities actually just have don't have insurance requirements. And then others there's some others that
do set a um an amount and it was 50,000 or a h 100,000. Okay. And how many other jurisdictions have set that amount? We have we found I believe let me see one two four and that those fall under kind of both the direction of either not less
than 50,000 or not less than 100,000. So I'm not sure which one's which but in my notes here but uh four jurisdictions Bard County, Orman Beach, New Smyrna Beach, and Deltona. And do we have any idea what those premiums are? I don't. I don't. Okay. Yeah. But most other
municipalities don't actually have the insurance requirement. Okay. Pre the the uh new legislation that's um about to be signed. And once a dog's deemed dangerous, what are the extra restrictions that the owner has to go through to keep that dog? Sure.
There's there's a list of them. So, I'll have Jennifer come up so that I don't miss them. I'm going to go through it for you. Thank you. So, in our county, they would have to register their dog with us um at a price of $1,500 um per dog. So, there are
instances where there are actually multiple dogs involved in a situation. So, that's 1,500 per animal. Um and then they have a annual registration of $500. and they have a annual inspection um where we go through. We make sure that they have uh signage on the property at
every entrance uh to the property identifying that they have a dangerous dog there. that they have a enclosure that um either they have a exterior enclosure that is solid roof floor and all four sides with a lock on it and a
sign on that enclosure as well that um does not allow for entry of children or um people that come to visit that don't live inside of the home or the animal must be secured inside of the home with a lock um and as well as signage to let people know when they come inside that you know that there is a dangerous dog
there. And then if they do leave the property, they have to be on a leash uh attached to a harness uh that is strong enough um for the animal. They have to be muzzled um and they have to be fixed up to date on rabies shots and they have
to be microchipped and that information is provided to us in the annual inspection. They have to have their liability insurance. Um that is that is valid. Um, we check that every year. And then double check that I got through
everything. Um, if they are renting, so if they do not own their property, they also need to have a letter from their landlord stating that they understand that they have a dangerous dog and they are allowing them to have that dog in their home. So, the follow-up question is, does the landlord, if this is a
rental scenario, does the landlord, the property owner have to also carry that insurance? At this time, I don't believe it outlines that, just that the owner of the animal has to have liability insurance that covers dog bites. Miss
Swank, do you want to respond to that? The requirement for insurance is that it be on the premises. So, if a renter was in the home, they would be required to have that type of insurance on the premises within the Who is they? I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Who is they would be required, the
landlord or the tenant? The tenant. Um the uh our requirements for the affidavit currently uh require not only that the landlord uh indicate that they are aware that a dangerous dog is going to be on the property but also that they understand that uh there will be compliance with all of the requirements
both the physical containment of the animal um the signage and also the insurance requirement. So will the landlord be required to carry this type of insurance as well? it would be the requirement of the tenant if uh I I don't believe we've had a situation where the tenant has not obtained
insurance um and that we've had to require it from the landlord, but there is a requirement within the current ordinance that the that the owner of the property renting must include that they understand that uh there will be requirements and that they all must be met. So theoretically that would be
something that could be required, but that is not how it is written currently. Um, it requires that the owner of the dog have it on the premises. Okay. And how many scenarios there been where a dog was deemed dangerous and then went out and
reoffended, either bit an other animal or a human being? Yeah, not to our knowledge. And just to clarify the question earlier, I believe there's 18 dogs currently deemed dangerous in the county. Okay. And those 18 dogs, none of them have gone out and
attacked another human or animal? Not to our knowledge. So, is it fair to say that these restrictions that the county's put in place are effective? The muzzle, the enclosed locked uh cage. That's a judgment. Um, you know, I mean, not to our knowledge that they've been, you know, that they've had
any kind of um, you know, other uh incident. So, thank you so much. That's all I have for questions. Thanks, chair. No, thank you. It's a good questions from everybody. I'm thinking this whole time. Um I What about the owners? We
really should be going after the owners. However, whether it's a million dollars or or $500,000 uh insurance requirement that really does go after the owner because they've got to pay for it. But Don, you brought up something really interesting
that I haven't heard anybody uh deal with. And that's um that's going to be my last question to y'all because I I for me this turns I'm I'm sitting here thinking what are there what are the constitutional rights here that need to
protect it? the the family who lost a child to aggressive dogs, they lost their right of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for a child. Um, and and that deserves to be protected.
U, but I really want to go after the owner. Maybe the insurance does it. Don, you said there's a criminal remedy. What What triggers that criminal uh remedy? Does that come from your investig Are you investigating the dog or the owner
or both? Cuz it's really the owner's fault and the owner's responsibility. Anything that goes towards criminal that goes to the sheriff's office for investigation. So, it could be something like negligence or something like that. But our investigations tend to focus on uh again, you know, what what caused the
bite, what um you know, and the bite investigation to deem the dog dangerous, anything criminal related. And we do assist with those investigations with the sheriff's office, but that would be on them to be able to Well, how does it trigger? How does it get to the sheriff's office? Do you report it? Can
danger? I mean, well, in in the case of this uh of the of the child, that unfortunate incident, they were on scene at the same time and that was that was, you know, for their that was part of their investigation. Then when it's something so the victim has to call the sheriff's department.
Well, no. I mean, it's all part of the response and then we could call the sheriff's uh department if it's something that's significant injury um or you know an an animal abuse type of situation, we would help with those charges. What else would we have for the
um Yes. So, in in that instance, because of um when the call comes out through through dispatch, uh the sheriff's department responded on scene and due to the severity of the incident, they did take over that case. We did um assist with obviously the animal component with
um handling the the custody um and everything since we are the experts in that regard, but due to the the death of the person and we're not able to enforce the um the statutes in regards to negligent homicide and everything, that's when the sheriff's department
does take in take over for that. Okay, that's all that I see for anybody wanting to bait it. So, the the motion on the floor is an it's actually an amendment to the motion. It's to change the $100,000
uh insurance requirements to $500,000. Chrisa, would you call the role? Chairman, uh we have two more people very briefly. someone can if possible. I would just I would just add because we you know the analogy was brought in with
automobiles. But if you're a reckless driver, those insurance companies, they have a way of of making you pay or if uh god forbid anybody has has a DUI, your insurance rates, I would assume, are
astronomical. So I just just share that before before we vote. determine things and Councilman Dempsey. Yeah, I guess I would just ask that we kind of if we could continue this and get staff to give us some basic general idea of what premiums are going to be
for somebody. I mean, we've got a system now that's in place. We're 18 and0 with our current setup on reoffending dangerous dogs. So, whatever is in place currently, I think is working. Once the dog's deemed dangerous, we've never had a problem again. But now, how many of
those 18 people are going to be able to afford the million dollar or $500,000 premium? I know, David, you said the market's going to adjust itself and they'll become vendors of a $500,000 policy, but we have no idea what that premium is going to be. And that may
cause those 18 dogs to get put down, not because they're necessarily uncontrollable, but it's because they can't afford the premium. I mean, a lot of people are losing their homes because they can't afford the the higher insurance rates. I mean, who's to say they're not going to let these these
family pets in a lot of cases. Um, who's going to keep them once we can't afford the premium? So, I'd ask that we continue this um until we get a a better idea of what these premiums are going to be and what we're going to be asking of people because right now we have a 100%
working system. And now we're just going to add another layer that really may be overly burdensome to where people are going to have to just get rid of their dogs because they can't afford it in an otherwise perfect system that protects the public from dangerous dogs. So, that's my request right now. Otherwise,
I'm a no. Okay, that may be possible. I I think to stay within our rules, we have to deal with the amendment first. If it's voted down, then that can be your next motion, but uh Councilman Santiago, thank you. Yeah, I I I ask
that we don't delay it. Um we won't know when those numbers or any of that. There's too many uh variables um to to to consider. Um and I don't think that that that that that's on us. Um the market, like I said, will play out. Um and um it is what it is at that point,
but for us delaying it to get those numbers, I don't even know if we'll even get them. So I I ask that we vote and take action. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh Chris, would you call the role, please? Mr. Kent, yes.
Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Dempsey? No. Mr. Johansson? No, Mr. Brower. No. Uh, but the yeses have it by one vote. Uh, vote is four to three. So, the amendment
passes. And now, finally, we go to the uh um to the main uh ordinance. Mr. Chair, I move to approve as amended. Second. Councilman Santiago makes a motion to approve as amendment. The second was by
Troy Kent. Uh, Chrissa, would you call the vote? Uh, hold on. Any questions or debate? Chissa, would you call the vote? Mr. Kent, yes. Mr. Reinhardt? Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr.
Dempsey? No. Mr. Johansson? Yes. Mr. Brower? Yes. So, uh, the main motion passes as amendment, um, 6 to1. Um, so that's our
really our first big item. Dom, when you leave, we're going to move a lot faster. I'm sorry. Don't be sorry. This is I think it's more important that we try and do the business correctly than um, item four. Um,
uh, well, I'm not going to make any comments. Item four, ordinance 2025-14, an ordinance deleting the animal control board. Hi. So, Random Matusak, again, director of public protection. So, this does basically eliminate the animal control uh board.
In February 2025, um, this council voted to go ahead and utilize a special magistrate for animal or dangerous dog appeals, uh, which was the question when we brought this before. Uh, regarding the animal control advisory board, we have not been able to
maintain or or h hold a meeting since March 2024 due to quorum issues. Currently, we have two members on this board. It's a nine-person board. Uh, so we are asking here to uh eliminate the language related to the board and the ordinance. Thank you. Uh questions for
staff? Any of the two people on Okay. Uh Councilman Santiago. Move to approve. Second. Motion to approve by David Santiago. Uh the second is um by Councilman Robbins.
Debate. David. No. Okay. Uh Don Dempsey. Okay. Is your mic on? Yes, it is now. I'm sorry, guys. So, is this going to go ahead and replace or this is a change to the due process of when somebody's dog is going to be deemed dangerous? It
doesn't actually change anything. We've been using a special magistrate for some time now. And um as I mentioned in February, this council did vote to go ahead and maintain that special magistrate as a as the appeal. So the advisory board didn't have in our current process a role in the dangerous
dog uh declarations. Don, they're at at this point their role is only to make recommendations on uh changes to the animal control ordinance. They don't deal with the um quasi judicial items.
So they have nothing to do with even recommending whether a dog should be deemed dangerous or not. No, sir. Nothing at all. Okay. All right. Thank you. Mhm. Councilman Robbins. Chairman, my name's up there for the next uh agenda item. I just wanted to get ahead of things.
Okay. You think we're going to get to it? Okay. Trying to keep moving. All right. Uh no other questions, no other debate. Um all in favor of uh deleting the animal control board say I. I. Any
opposed? And that carries seven to zero unanimously. And item five is an adoption hearing for ordinance 2025-02 largecale comprehensive plan future land use element amendment to
implement a voluntary low impact development and green storm water instructure program. Uh would you like to hear from them first? We've heard this uh three times. Uh we've debated it
12 times. Yeah. And uh I'm ready to make a motion to uh adopt the the hearing as presented. Second. Okay. Uh Councilman Robbins makes a motion to approve as presented. As presented and uh Councilman Santiago
makes the second. Um Clay, what are we voting on? Just a quick synopsis. Yes, sir. Uh these are changes to the comprehensive plan that are uh ensuring that the uh regulations you put in place for LI are consistent with the comp plan. Uh this
is just really a cleanup item. It went along originally with that ordinance, but because of the comp planning process, it was a delay because we had to send it to the state for review. Okay. Okay. We do have one member of the public that would like to speak on it.
Uh John Nicholson. John Nicholson, uh, the Tony Beachside. Um, since Wendy's is not here, I want to just reiterate, um, she would both like to eliminate the volunteer, make at least part of this
mandatory. Uh for through my own experience, I know when you make things voluntary, most people do not voluntarily do things that are not in their best interest. Uh went through the storms in Miami years ago, you had to
have uh a type of uh nail to nail down your shingles because they kept going. That you had to tie down your roofs because they kept going. It was no longer voluntary. It was mandatory and it really did help. So, I'm asking you to think about that. I know it's kind of
late in the the game, but voluntary doesn't always work. Thank you, Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Uh just a brief comment if that's okay at this time. It is perfect. Uh council, I at the last moment voted yes
um on on this topic so that I I could bring it back if possible. And I'll just briefly say if this is is voted down then I would uh bring back the hybrid approach. I think staff told us in the last 20 years there was one development
um that parttook in the voluntary uh LI Clay looks perplexed. Am I am I wrong in saying that? Uh what I was saying is the conservation subdivision which has similar type of provisions there which was implemented in 2014. We've not had
uh anyone really addressing that until the recent years and during that time frame. At that point we only had one application. Right. So I'll just I'll just say I I am um more for the hybrid approach that we looked at a few months ago and that's
where I am. Thanks, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Sher. Uh, Clay, since we've last made changes to this, um, am I I'm under the impression that we have in the pipeline interested
developers to take up the current uh, we've had we've had two pre-applications where uh, um, they've been expressed interest in utilizing these standards. uh they have not finalized the plans yet. Um so we're we're hearing people
are interested just haven't fully followed up on it. And just from a staff's perspective right now we have something that's all queued up. This is the last thing to do. If the council wants us to go back and work with the environmental
natural resource advisory committee to come back with recommendations on either a hybrid, which they've already done, or a mandatory, we can do so. We would appreciate if you could just vote this through so we can get implementing these regulations
because the actual effective date of those rules and regulations is contingent on the adoption of this. So if this can be adopted today, but if there's a desire for us to go back to the environmental natural resource
advisory committee, we can do so and say that the council wants you to bring back the hybrid, bring back a mandatory, whatever you feel is appropriate, we can follow through. But if we can get through this, it'll help us. So that if is if there are any parties out there
that want to pro proceed with a uh LIID type of development, we want to have the tools in place. Yeah. And thanks for that recommendation, Clay. I hope that that helps. Um I think you know and Troy to to the conservation one that Clay just described from and I looked into
that months ago and the reason why in my opinion we only had one. It was like looking for a needle in the haystack. the requirements to get to a conservation development uh from from geographical desript geographical descriptions and other things that
required it. It made it almost impossible. Um and uh I there is that one developer that that did ask for it and I think when he was here I asked him about you know how he went through that process and he you know um he didn't complain about it but he did say it was
very difficult to accomplish it and maybe that was by intent right so I wouldn't use that description because we only had one in 20 30 years to say that LI may not work I don't know the answer to the LI idea right but I do know this it's gotten a lot of attention across
the state developers are already talking to our staff about it. That's a conversation that has almost probably never happened before. So, I think we're on the right path. Certainly, um it I hope it for it to work, but if it doesn't, then maybe we go to that step.
I don't want to go to that step, me personally, yet until we give this opportunity a try. And I think our staff is very very competent to help guide people this way, especially if they want uh uh approvals from this council. Thank you, Mr. Yeah, Councilman Johansson.
Thank you, Chairman. Uh Clay, real quick, um I we've heard a few uh uh um I don't know who the clients are, but we've heard Cob, we've heard Sto Law Firm coming up here a couple times and and
sharing with us uh uh some requests uh and and those those requests involve aspects of LI. Is that correct? So, so earlier in public comment, I think it was Dream Green that talked
about a few other counties that have projects that involve LI. We in fact have five or six projects in the last year, maybe 14 months that involve a LI as well. They could have
been on that list. Yes. Yes, sir. There's several different uh projects that have identified that they're utilizing one maybe two of the different methods of LIID. Uh the big difference would be that if you look at what we're
striving with this with the adoption of this comp plan and the implementation of the ordinance, it's a more cohesive method. So you are not just doing one or two of the items that are identified as low impact development. It's a commitment to making sure the development meets all of the criteria.
So yes, we have had elements of LID in other projects. This gives them um uh the development community better tools to work within and incentives to work towards that. So that that just goes on to my uh
comment that that or or my conclusion that uh voluntary LI is is starting to take hold and as time goes on and things get more uh uh more common. They will become more common. The only fear I have of making
things mandatory is when when something gets built and they and they cut the ribbon, it's beautiful. LIDs all over the place and then three years later the HOA or or the group of folks start unling their LI and it causes more
problems. Uh thank you very much Clay. I just have a a question. I'll reserve my comments for a minute. Um but I think you just answered it. I I wanted the whole council to be um reminded of in the way it's written right now
completely voluntary, but you just said they have to comply with all of the elements of LI to qualify for the incentives including an increase of of a density, whatever. Mhm. Okay. Thank you.
Is there any other questions? Yeah, I I Okay, Councilman Robbins. Uh, is it question time or are we uh I could have sworn we were in I can do whatever you want. Chair, you're the last one up so nobody else has a question. Everybody else just left the
room. Okay. Um, so you're starting debate, which is fine. I just Sure. Okay. Um, I feel a lot of the same as Mr. Johansson and and M Mr.
Santiago. Um it it's incentivized and and the reason we took this approach uh because there is some additional costs uh that go along along with it. Stem wall uh construction is a a perfect example, you know, for a 32. I've met with some builders and asked them, you
know, what's the difference in price between uh mandatory uh stem wall and uh there's about a $20,000 difference just in the slab, you know, and with what we deal with. We're trying to find affordability. We're trying not to uh add bureaucracy and more red tape. We're
trying to keep the uh cost down, trying to minimize government, but then, you know, we we we want to permanently um put some of this stuff in play. And and one of the biggest things in researching this since day one, we've had this in front of us uh myself and
the chairman uh a bunch of times in the last four years is is roughly only two counties out of 67 uh mandate this. And and there's there's several reasons why. I'm not trying to dog LI as as a whole because some of these things apply or
can apply in certain areas uh geographically better and work. Uh but Florida is is is every countyy's different. Some of them may not work here and once we put uh some of these in place or make mandates um it's hard to
get out of right. But I've noticed too with presentations with uh with Clay and also some of these developments I think it was around Jake Lakema said we had a couple pro uh projects. You know what I do Mr.
Vanic, can you look at this and see um can we do ABC on this? Are you open to this? Okay. Yep. I bring it in front of council and say, "Hey, builders, this or hey, uh Mr. Watts, can you negotiate with your client or talk about this?"
You know, and are they open to this? You know, and and there's certain ways that we can bring this stuff up in front of council and and and implement things. I think we did do it around Lake Winnam. So, you know, um I think it's all about relationship, too, and how we we uh talk
to our uh uh constituents and and let them know that that some of this stuff can apply and um and and and make a deal, you know, and but to mandate it. Um still with keeping it voluntary and
uh yeah, that's it. Thanks, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Danny, I apologize. I stepped in the back for a quick second, and I know when I came back in, you were talking about the stem wall stuff. Um, just refresh my memory, uh, on what we
have here. That's not doing any stem wall, um, requirements, uh, 100% mandatory yet. I think we directed ENRACK to look into those options. Is that correct? Okay. There's a couple different things and I want to make sure we all have a clear understanding. Perfect. The LI
has multiple options for you and what we call our treatment train. So from how you design the site, how you construct on the site, street widths, type of materials you use, there's multiple different options that are available to
the development community to implement this. Part of it would be limiting the amount of fill utilized for the residential lots by utilizing construction methods such as stem wall. That would be part of the treatment train that we would be looking at to see
if they merit some of the uh the waiverss andor density bonuses. So yes, stem wall construction is an option that's available as part of the efforts to limit the amount of fill brought in. That's why when we were going through the seven strategies, we wanted to
emphasize that the LI aspects of this meet a lot of the concerns that y'all were having. What we took from you is that if you're not doing LI, we do need to utilize an avoidance and minimization uh aspect for projects in the flood
plane to come in and utilize albeit not LI but other methods to address some of those issues as well. So we're trying to carry over those same concept for multiple applications so that that way the overall impact to a new development site is minimized. You
you refreshed my recollection and that was my understanding. And and Danny, one one of the other things that I that I did a little bit of research because I talked to a couple folks and and I and and I I agree with certainly what you you've found also, but I also had some um folks say to me that if they were
doing a um let's say a large scale development and if it was all stem wall, then the economies of scale are very different and it doesn't add that much of a cost to it because that's what their standard is across the whole development. Yes, that's correct. Yes, I get you. I
get you. I agree. Very different. I agree 100%. Um, and I think given that it's still optional here, it's just one of the tools, I think we're okay. So, thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Dempsey. Yeah, Clay, if I could just ask you one. All right.
I No worries. Um, in affordable housing, we offer a lot of incentives, right, to get developers to do an affordable housing project. What? And some of those include what? Impact fee waivers. Yes, sir. Well, yes sir. Depending on what happens later today and and increase
density. Yes, sir. Okay. Is it possible we could offer the same type of incentive? Well, let me hold on. And does it work? Do those incentives help draw in affordable housing projects? Yes, for affordable housing. And yes, there's
already in put into this project. In other words, in our LIID program, we do have things such as expedited review. uh I wouldn't call it expedited review but it's handled through the subdivision process. So they are able to get through you know uh and and follow these
standards and they will get density bonuses they will get other things such as alterations in some of the uh configurations and other dimensional requirements that we have in the code so that that way they can come forward with it. So in other words, like if you come
in and instead of doing our standard street detail, you reduce the amount of asphalt and can do so in a manner that still meets emergency management access and meets our requirements for two-way traffic, then you get a bonus because it's part of the treatment train that
you're selecting. So there's all kinds of different options. So you do get reductions in cost, you get reductions in time, you get um density bonuses. So yes, there are incentives that are identified here and I can tell you that's why we're probably seeing folks
very much interested in coming forward with these types of projects. Okay. And how long have we been offering equivalent incentives to LI as we have? Well, there's been density bonuses and expedited review for a considerable time. I would say going
back to the original 1990 uh comp plan for affordable housing, those were some of the strategies we adopted back then. Um, and they I have to say that in the county you don't see it as much because we're not necessarily
where affordable housing wants to go because of proximity to transit routes, schools, hospitals, etc. But we have had interest in uh affordable housing because of the density bonuses. But
would you say that our incentives are as strong for LI as they are for affordable housing? Um, it's a different animal but very similar. I I would say that um affordable housing has more elements
beyond Valuchia County in that they're federal and state authorities that have different uh grant programs and different funding sources that can direct or uh um locate affordable housing whereas the LI standards are
going to be more of a marketdriven aspect. Right. Do you know of anything else that we could do to add more incentive for more LI development than we currently have? Well, I would say that we've put a lot into this in regards to what we feel are
reasonable incentives. Um, this is uh a it is a code change or code. And so if we start seeing that either lack of participation or feedback from our development community as to why they're not taking advantage of it,
we'll be able to come back with corrections. We've done that in other types of things such as the conservation subdivision. But how much more interest have you received than previous years? Well, I again, you know, when you hear from a developer and you want to have a
preapp and they're indicating that they're want to implement some of the LI standards, that's really what we're hearing right now because one, the issue of flooding is a number one issue across Valuchia County, across the state of Florida. I'd say it's it's almost across
the country in certain locations. Sec, you know, the second thing is um they understand that this is something that is favorable to the general public, favorable to this council. So they understand that that's the path of least resistance. So of course they're going to be looking at that. Okay. Thank you.
Appreciate it. Thank you. Um I don't think there's any more questions at least not yet. But stand stand by. Um I I'm struggling with this because I I really want this to I want L to go
forward. Um, I'm struggling with incentives that are completely um voluntary, optional. We just increased
uh the size of government and and government regulations um by requiring $500,000 of insurance for a bad dog. Um and the reason was because we wanted to make a bold statement that not here in
Valuchia County. We've done the same thing with uh distance that a sexual somebody uh convicted of of uh uh sexual crimes, a sexual offender can't live within so many feet. And we did that as it was said because we wanted to make a
clear statement that not here in Valuchia County. Um, in in my mind th this is just as important and in my mind nothing more important than saying if you want to develop in
Valuchia County, you do it in a way that provides the maximum protection to our environment, our quality of life, um uh um uh potentially reducing flooding. Um because I want to make that statement
for Valuchia County. I I want to be known for that that if you want to develop here, you do it according to these standards. And so what I it needs to be mandatory. I I'm I'm afraid to to to just do away with it and not
have it come back, but I'm afraid that it'll never be uh changed as as well. Um this if this was mandatory, Troy, it would cover all seven of the flood principles that were brought to the
council um that we're still trying to deal with, waiting for information to come back from from ENRACK. We heard two members of the ENRACK committee or one member of the ENRAC committee um say that it's it at the very least it needs
to be um a hybrid system. Um, but if we want to be known for a the county, as we've said this morning, that protects our residents, then why are we doing this? Why isn't this just as important to
protect our to prevent flooding? Do will we lose a potential developer? Um, we might, and I can live with that. Um, what I what I would prefer to see is developers that come in and and um have
the same uh respect and love for our community and the residents around where they're building as as we do. Um, in the affordable housing field, um, Homes Bring Hope is already doing this.
Everything they build is on Stemwall and they're building storm water protection. not just for them, even if it's one house, but for the neighbors around them because they don't want to uh put a low income person in a house and then put
the neighbors out of a house. And that's the kind of development I would like to see. I I'm not I'm not sure a completely voluntary system is going to do it. Um um so I'm I'm struggling uh with this.
Clay, I hear you. Give us this. That's a start and and we can build from there. We'll hear back from Enrach. Well, we heard from Enrach today. Don't they said don't make it 100% voluntary. Um so what do we want Valuchia County to be known
for? Councilman Robbins. Thank you, Chairman. And I think a couple couple highlights and I let me try to put this in in a manner that's uh that's acceptable to to to support uh you and and maybe explain it uh the other the other side of this.
Uh but but we ask um what makes us different or let's make something that um um sets us out in front that others can example. And I I must remind uh the council and public too that if you go
through our code of ordinances chapter 50 and 72, there's a couple things that you will find. And Clay and his team have done a good job of of putting on um slideshows and presentations over the
last four years, multiple times explaining uh what we do differently. And you will find that Valuchia County is different way where it's codified in our our charter. Uh that environmental protections is our number one uh concern. And if you actually dig down
and look in our ordinances, as it's been covered before, you will see that probably 99% of everything that we do in Valuchia County is above state and federal requirements in those sections. Right? So what do we to answer the
question? What do we do differently? We're doing it already above and beyond state. So, you know, when we make the comparison of whether it's sexual offenders or whether it's dogs, guess what? We didn't do that stuff, right? We didn't do that stuff. So, we so we
addressed it or addressed it in a higher manner. So, um in terms of the principles, you know, uh we brought those principles forward, those seven principles. Again, I believe five out of seven or six out of seven of those are already covered and uh controlled by
either state statute or federal statute uh or or or limitations. So, you know, I want to make sure when we're speaking about this stuff that we're giving the full we're giving the public the full um story and and not
to discredit you, chair, because you hit on a a couple good points, but you know, when when we want something typically, you know, uh we don't uh sometimes give the full story, but um I just want to ensure that that our team has gone over this uh that we're talking apples to
apples, that we're saying what we are doing in its entirety and not just uh uh what what fits the topic at the time. And um the most important thing with with LI if there was some sort of of of
data that would support our data showing that LI if made mandatory would solve our flooding issues. There'd be no I don't think there'd be any question up here. But there isn't one instance or one piece of data that shows that making
le mandatory would solve our rain events from 8 to 11 in in a 24-hour period. Not one. Not one. So, uh, you know, at the end of the day, we we have to
uh we have to pay attention to the data uh and the facts. And I think it's very important. We've been down this road several times and uh I'm ready to vote. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I don't subscribe to the uh to the
notion that um the Bush County Council doesn't care about environmental issues or flooding issues or that that narrative. Um, you know, sort of sort of along the lines some of the comments that Danny made, I think Valuchia County, when you compare it to
the other 66 counties, we are leaders on many levels. Though it doesn't get paraded or bragged about often and the social media world and the often very vocal advocates for their own cause um
that make the most noise. Um, the truth speaks for itself. Um, I think we're making uh we're being pioneers to a certain level with what we've done here. Mr. Chairman, I hope I can bring you to some uh level to support this with with
the last part of what um Clay had said is we gave the uh NRAC direction on the avoidance and minimization uh direction for them to review that to come up with recommendations. Remember I brought up the stem wall, I brought up the tree preservation stuff. I think I brought up
also the complete land flattening for lack of a better term. I think that work is still to become before us which could probably help maybe with some of your concerns additional. Um but I I think this is um I think we're being pioneers
right now and um not everybody might get what everything they want but we got to balance it at the same time. And and I'll have to say also I haven't received any data that shows that this is the silver bullet either. But I'm willing to try it. And that's where I'm at today to say let's try these L standards. Let's
encourage anybody that wants to develop in Valuchia County to try them. And if they don't work or they they don't do it, then I'm willing to revisit that. Um, but I I think we're on the right path and and rack the additional work that they're going to do is um hopefully
going to help bring some more guidance to I think this good policy. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Dempsey. Yeah, I just want to kind of agree. I I do agree with Danny and uh David as far as uh what we're doing. I think there's been a
lot done by the county already to uh regulate the environment and the the building standards. I don't uh know if this LI like Danny or David says is a silver bullet. I'm not convinced that it's necessarily the cure all for all our problems, but I do think it's
definitely worth looking into. I'm definitely interested to see how we could get this implemented without making it mandatory because um I've talked to Mr. Vana core too and sat down and talked to him about the issues with flooding and all that and what he thought would be a resolution
and he was very like you said very open to the LI type of stuff. I think our developers in general would be more and more uh interested in having conversation with the county about doing it but on a voluntary basis. I don't think we should require anything.
Um you know I I just I don't like governments ma mandating things. We live in a free society. We kind of pride oursel as the land of the free. And I just don't like mandates. And um but I do like incentives. I've actually
witnessed it myself. Like I talked about before in the late '7s. We had the worst economy ever under uh the Carter administration. President Reagan brought us back through the Tax Reform Act of 81 through tax incentives and incent the tariffs right now that we're dealing with that Miss Anderson talked about,
those are incentives. And like President Trump said, there's growing pains. There's going to be a time when you do all these tariffs, everybody's going to hurt for a while, but once it all plays out, I think it's going to be a good end game. The sex offender thing, I don't know if that's necessarily going to play
out well. Every time we do a mandate, there's a ripple effect. And sometimes it could take years to see how it plays out. The uh the vorride that I, you know, the the subsidation of of all this stuff that we've done, sometimes it takes a while. We don't know if that's
the right answer or not. It's got to play out. That's why I want to tiptoe into LI. I want to definitely look into it, but to mandate it when I'm not convinced it's a silver bullet, I think is dangerous territory to act like we know what the cure is when truth be
known, we really don't. We're just trying to steer the ship to get it where we want to be. Um I and the other thing I don't know if you guys are following the real estate market. I mean we are now at a at the cusp of 2007 2008. We're about to enter
a market crash in my opinion and from what the experts are all saying. So we have more we have four times the inventory now for sale than we did two years ago, three years ago. So I think just by the nature of the free market,
developments are going to slow down now anyway. So I don't know if we're going to have this big push for more developments by the developers as we have in years past when the COVID boom was going on. So, I just think we should keep things in a free market setup,
voluntary if that's how you want to do it, but voluntary with incentives because incentives are, in my opinion, a a big thing. We have tons of them in place and I think this is one more area where we should ask staff to give us some incentives. I if anything cut back
on the incentives if possible for affordable housing because I keep you know I keep voting against this affordable housing stuff because here we are adding incentives to create more development. Okay. So I would just like to throttle that back. I don't you know
affordable housing is still development whether it's developments or affordable developments. It's still impervious surface. I would rather see much more incentivization going towards LIID than to affordable housing. So, I
just I vote that we keep it voluntary with a lot of uh good government incentives tacked on. Thanks, Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Council, I I respect your thoughts on on basically everything we talk about and uh there's a lot of what you all said
that I completely agree with. And for anybody that says that we are um not advocates for the environment, I I would just remind them that this council, I believe 6 to1 voted for regrow the loop and then I believe 70
voted for regrow. So, you know, we we are a council that does care about the environment. I just put that out there as a as a reminder. I um I I hear what you're saying, Councilman Dipsy, about the incentives.
I like incentives as well. I am more towards the the hybrid approach. Um I was before I'm I'm still am currently and uh I'm reading the room. This is going to pass. So I'm going to vote uh yes on this just for my own chess move
in case you know one of you I hear I hear you down the line uh teetering on this and changing your mind, I'll have an opportunity to bring it back. So I'm going to I'm going to be a yes because of that. Thank you, Chairman. Okay. I I I want to start by saying this
because three of you have mentioned it. Um I didn't or at least I don't believe I said Valuchia County doesn't care about the environment. What I um in fact Valuchia County is number two in the state for land conservation. I think that's a record that we should be and
are really proud of. Um, uh, Danny, you said that in resp. And because we are leaders in land conservation, I think this follows that we have such a high standard for
development. Not just because I want it. Um not because I think it's a silver bullet. It's it's not. Um but the tiptoeing is over. There's people there's other cities and counties
that have tiptoed for a long time. I've studied this for since before I ever got elected. I've been to every LIID conference for four years that I've been here and I hear um uh example after example of cities in our state that are
already using it in areas on their own property, city property, county property that where parking lots uh flood, where where streets flood. when they switched to this, when they implemented some of the LI standards, it did solve it. Um,
so it's not like it's an unproven uh uh system. Last time we talked about this, I talked about the huge development in Southwest Florida. Went through hurricanes. Everybody else is flooded, lost electricity. They didn't have any
flooding. Farm wouldn't use this if they didn't think it would protect their the timber that's still on the uh um conservation land that they're going to keep. So, it's not an unproven um science. We can keep saying that, but
it's not true. Um it has is it a silver bullet? No, it's not going to solve our flooding problem this hurricane season, but it will it can slow it down in the future by the way that we build. um where we build, how we build, and we
have a responsibility, the people that will live here in in 50 years or a hundred years. Um, we also have a responsibility to people who live now, who live here now, who who want this because they see that it will help our quality of life, preserve more of of the
land that we all want preserved, and um uh will ultimately help in um uh infrastructure problems, reducing traffic. Um it's wildly popular by our constituents.
Um, so if it's I if it's if you know Clay recommends that this is the way to go, please don't vote it down. Get what we have in place there and then we can start um uh improving it as we get uh
information back from ENRACH. Um so we'll it looks like that's the way the the vote's going to go. So, with that, um, Carissa, I'll just ask you to call.
I I don't even think we need to call the role. All in favor of, uh, of, uh, approving item five, voluntary LI um, development and storm water infrastructure program. Say I. I. Any
opposed? And motion carries seven to zero. 11:44 item six uh agreement with RAP Development USA Inc. for transit operations and maintenance contract. Motion to approve.
Second. Was that serious? Has a heart attack, sir. Okay, we have a motion to app. I just didn't know if you were have a motion to approve this by Councilman Robbins and the second was by
uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. Correct. Yes. Okay. What are we voting on? Good afternoon. I have a quick presentation. Welcome to go through it or whatever your uh preference is. Bobby King, transit services director. I do want to introduce um a large team from RATP Dev.
Uh the executive management team is here. They're from all over the country, but we actually do have several members of their team that are Blush County residents. They've been involved with um uh Votrans 50-year uh history in a lot of ways. So, we're happy to have them
here today. Uh so, the following slides, we're just going to go to uh provide you with some information, real quick information about the RFP, the contract, and how the contract is vital to the future of transit in Blush County.
The current management contract with First Transit um ends in August. So, we set out to do an RFP. A solicitation was released in December. Uh we're looking for an operations and maintenance contractor um full service contractor that can take over all the 300 employees
um and uh help us uh run the operation. The uh requirements of the solicitation uh was very specific about modernizing our system using um innovative uh technology systems and um their commitment to efficiencies uh throughout
the entire service. The current management structure is different than what we asked for in the solicitation. We currently have what we uh refer to as a management contract in a in the transit world. We hire um a transit company to provide a general manager. Uh it's a
small um amount of a contract and they oversee the employees um throughout the system. Uh and the employees are in a holding corp. They're not actually employees of the transit company. That contract um doesn't really provide any incentives for efficiency.
Um there's no performance measures. Um so we wanted to change that in this contract. Uh we were looking specifically for a contractor that can help us um reduce cost um and uh are always looking at ways to help us reduce
the cost. Um they also uh take on all of the liability uh which is something we spend about a million dollars a year on uh currently. Um and uh uh so we pay them a monthly a monthly uh fee based on the amount of miles that they operate
for us and that service is dictated by us. Um, they also provide uh lots of corporate support, which is something very key to our success. Uh, we need to be able to have our our on-site team be able to reach out to a worldwide
company. That's what they are, uh, to seek advice on certain things that we're asking them to put into place. So, we're excited about that. Um, so this, uh, we're just going to continue the benefits of this new structure. Uh we're very excited about
these types of things um that are coming to the table, especially the innovative technology. The innovative technology helps us um uh run um the most efficient service. It helps us uh utilize our resources to the best of our abilities.
Um it optimizes the resource use. Um that's key to efficiency in um transit. Um the coal the goal here was to uh keep the general fund contribution um either level. Uh but we're actually uh level
every year. Um sometimes uh we have uh challenges that face us um uh with uh funding. Um we also have uh um uh a big need for the elderly community. Um, and we're always trying to balance those
things, the general fund, the grant dollars, the revenues that we're, uh, uh, getting in fairs, um, with the need in the community. And so, we're trying to do the best that we can to, um, keep the general fund dollars, um, uh, you know, lower every year. And so, this
next fiscal year, we've managed to keep um, the general fund dollars actually a little bit less than what we currently have in this fiscal year. And uh the way we're going to do that is with the help of this company. Um so the the contract will take effect immediately. They'll
start onboarding um but they really won't come into um uh service until August 15th. And uh immediately going to start modernizing the service. Uh and in between now and then we'll be working all kinds of plans for service changes
um cost cutting things like that. Uh so we may be back with you before you know it to talk about some of those service changes. Um all of which we want to take uh uh into effect on January 1, 2026. So uh I would like to open it up uh for you all to ask us any questions that you may
have. Questions from Matt. Did you have a question? I didn't have a question. Just a comment. Okay. Uh David Santiago, what are we having a cost savings with this contract? Um no, not necessarily, but we haven't increased our budget this year. Okay. Now, you mentioned there was
a million dollars that we spend in liability annually. Is that just being absorbed into the the total budget of the per mile that we're paying now? Yes. Yes. They definitely take on that responsibility. Thank you, Mr. There's three names on the board. Are any of
those for questions? Jake. Okay. Uh Jake Johansson, then you're next. Yes. Um uh couple questions I may ask you that I've already asked you. Once you you said that that uh there's no cost savings, but we'll get more service than we currently have, right? That's the goal
is to definitely create more service um availability. And and we talked about metrics, you and I, uh on a one-on-one. Um what type of metrics do we not have now that we will have in the future to to stimulate good service?
Right. So there performance measures included in this contract. um on-time performance, customer service satisfaction, um safety requirements. Uh there's a litany of of items that we will be looking at every single month in data
that's reported to us. And uh and they, you know, know that there's uh disincentives, but there's also incentives for them to do better than the standard average in in transit. So, we're looking for that uh possibility, too. Got it. Here here's a question I
didn't ask before that I will ask now and you may not have the answer to but uh do you know how much money we paid out in claims for bus versus votran versus there may I'll take that answer later
but but put it out there I'd like to no that that's a good it's a good bell weather to get that number down for I figure everybody in a tie represents here so thank you thank you Uh Troy, do you have a question? I do. I do. Yes. Council Kent.
So looking at the agenda item, I I don't understand how it's not a cost savings. It says that the general fund was a decrease of $477,320. How How is that not a cost savings? I mean, the other stuff is like grants and stuff. Well, um I mean, it's not that there maybe isn't some sort of
cost savings. Um everything is going up in our world. Parts are going up. um fuel. Uh although right now fuel is pretty good, but our budget isn't just for this contract. We still maintain a lot of the um costs uh at the county
level. So the other uh we have a $35 million budget. $22 million is for this contract. The rest of it with um the county uh through our own procurement or buildings and maintenance and things like that. So, uh, our general fund
dollars are are are lower, our grant dollars are higher, our revenue, um, uh, are is higher. So, we kind of balance that out. Uh, and we just had the opportunity to take it from the general fund. We have reserves, very healthy
reserves. So, our general fund is lower. Yeah. I I appreciate your transparency with all of that. For me though, like when I see that, you know, the expenditure is almost $23 million and almost 15 million comes from fairs, 5.6
plus million comes from the general fund, and then you've got grants as well. I when I see 477,000 less general fund dollars going in, um I I look at that, and correct me if I'm wrong, George, as a cost savings. Well, yeah,
that's actually I'm up to talk about it. So, actually, I'd like to have Ryan come down and go over the different uh ways, but basically she touched on it. Grant maximization uh this allows us to do a little bit better with grants and take less from
the taxpayer. So, uh, I Right. And and before Ryan starts, I'll just and and chairman, whenever Ryan is finished, I have a second question for Miss King. But before Ryan starts on that, you know, I I I get it. You know, um, the
grants are are tax dollars, but we're getting help from the feds and the state. So, that's why I say when I look at general fund for locally, Exactly. It seems like it's a savings for Valuchia County, but correct me if I'm wrong. You're absolutely correct. It is a
savings from the taxpayers, the local taxpayers perspective. When you compare the two budget years, which this contract is part of, it is a lower contribution by our local taxpayers. There are some more grants that we're going to be able to take advantage of. um this contract method is much more um
it's much easier to bill these grants and get the federal government and the state government to sign off on our grant billings. With our current reimbursement contract, we're kind of in a quasi land of are you in-house staff reimbursement or are you a fully contracted rate because we're kind of
both and sometimes we get rejected on some of our proposals to get cost reimbursement. So grant maximization is a big piece of it and I'd be remiss to say that part of it is this contract but part of it is other things route reductions other actions that have been
taken by this council and recommended by Bobby and Janine uh in the management of votran over the years our total estimated general fund contribution uh if you were to look at just about prior to co where were we estimating we'd be about right now we were
estimating 14 or 15 million we're at 11 so other actions that have been taken by the team. It all adds together to get to that budget savings, but this is kind of the main piece of it. It is twothirds of the budget of the vot fund. Right. And and Ryan, thank you um for that
explanation. And council, I'm not trying to play with statistics here, but that is how I view this that there's almost a half a million dollars fewer general fund dollars from our tax bucket that's going into this. So, I I do look at that
as a savings. And Miss King, how many years is this contract with um RATP deev company? How many years? It's fiveyear contract. Five year. So my my only concern is, you know, so we in my mind I'm looking at a half million dollar savings this year, but I'm
concerned about next year and the year after. I know we don't have a crystal ball, but um I like to hold um companies accountable for hey, your first year you're going to have a savings, but next year, you know, we get hit over the head with a hammer or the year after that. It just doesn't doesn't
sit well with me. I'm hoping that's not the case, but they're in the audience, so I wanted them to hear from me. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh Councilman Johansson, do you have a question? Are you No, sir. Waiting for waiting for debate. Okay. Councilman
Robbins, did you have a question? Yes, sir. Okay. I had to step step out for just a second, but do we also have some cost savings? Just to add on uh to Mr. Kent with our implementation of VORD. I know it's been a couple million dollars. Did you hit on that or are we saving that for We haven't talked about it yet,
but I can talk about it. Um so there's there's so many different ways that VORD has helped us. Um we've uh you know not had to buy large vehicles um for that area. We took away at least five vehicles out of uh large vehicles out of
the west side. Those are $700,000 a piece. The funding uh although the funding is used um from a grant to pay for vehicles, that funding is moved to different other areas to use um in its place. Um and but we do still have
savings on the west side of the county because of the um the vowride and uh and but we still have savings to to recognize still as we as we move this is going to get complicated but when we have fixed route lines in place we also
have to provide ADA paratransit in the same area and so when we take away um fixed route we no longer have to provide that ser that type of service in that area that's our most expensive service. And so we chose not to immediately cut
everybody off um that was ADA eligible and they all have to uh apply for eligibility. Um and as they uh go back for eligibility uh requirements, we'll move them into a different category um or they won't become eligible for ADA
paratransit. Uh either way um we have they can use vorride of course. So those savings will start to to come into play very soon as we start to age those uh eligible ADA riders um into a different category.
Sounds good. And with that council u you know um you got maintenance that we're saving on uh labor uh insuranceances liability all that stuff. So uh good job. Anyone else with a question? Okay. Then
we'll move to uh discussion and debate. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Everything I would put down when I first hit to speak was, "Thank you, Mr. Kent," because I'm like that, too. The very first cost savings is what you look for. And the thing that stood out
to me was the half a million dollars in savings from the general fund. Um, also what stood out to me as the chair of the TPO for disadvantage was the fact that this will provide uh online scheduling for the paratransit
as well which I thought that's something we've discussed at the TPO for disadvantage as well and that was huge. Um other things uh that stood out to me um the contractor uh will help with uh
modernizing services, new software which I just named. Um this would also I love the statement that they used during the 101. This is a possible uh model for other states. So when we say we want to do it different, Valuchia County is doing it different.
So this and I commend that uh for you for that for looking for that um and the fact that it puts customer service as the number one priority. I'm a big yes on this um mostly because of the savings but also namely for the paratransit issues that will be addressed. So thank
you for that. Um that's all I had. Chair Councilman Johansson. Thank you chairman. One of the things that uh we've been hitting on, we talked about it during our our strategic goals uh and and throughout my time here is metrics
driven contracting, metrics driven policies. And uh we touched on this during the question period, but I I I believe it's important that not only do we state the metrics and make it clear to the contractor what our expectations
are, which I I believe you've done, uh but but that we make those results available online, hopefully on your website. So So when when somebody can say, "I wonder how how they're doing. I wonder whether this is
worth it. They can look and and just like we do on Amazon, right? There's there's 50 coat hangers for sale, but you go to the comments and you look at who's who likes them, who oh no, the hanger fell apart after two days on the
on the uh on the coat rack. So, uh the same thing applies here. If if a bus is 90 if a bus route is 97 98 99% on time, I'm not going to go out there in the pouring rain 45 minutes early to hope I
catch the damn thing. I'm going out 2 minutes early because I know there's a good chance it's going to be on time. So, get that data, be good at what you do, and get that data out there. So, I I so I and and other citizens uh know
where where they stand with that. Uh, I think it's great that you have that metric and and we should be doing this with all our programs, Janine. Just add it to everything you would contract. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I'll
I'll be quick with this. I'm also um for this um when you look at what I tell you what the public's concerned about when they when they saw the almost $23 million, they see it as new money.
So, I really appreciate uh Ryan coming up and this is not new money. We're paying for bus service now. We're paying for mass transit. Now, we're going to pay somebody else and reduce the expense by $500,000 to general fund. And I'm
trusting staff that uh this will be better service. Um I I agree with you. I think it will be with especially with the additions of some of the things that were just mentioned here. Um, I'll end with just a a quick question if cuz you
you don't have a um a crystal ball. It's a 5-year contract. Um, what happens in two years? Is there a non non uh
um performance clause in the contract? Um Janine Jennings, business services director. Yes, all of our contracts have a termin termination um for performance clause in every contract. So there is an
out clause if performance isn't there. Okay. I think that's important for for the public and and everybody to understand too. All right. I don't The motion on the floor is to approve. Uh motion by Councilman Robbins, second by
Vice Chair Reinhardt. All in favor say I. I. Did you say I? Sir. Okay. Any opposed? And contract passes seven to zero. Thank you gentlemen for coming in and brilliant presentation. Item seven is community development
block grant block grant disaster recovery action plan for hurricane Milton. Motion to approve by Donna Butler. And we have a motion. Second Johansson. Motion to approve by Councilman Robbins,
second by uh Councilman Johansson. With the motion and second already in the floor, I'll make my presentation super short. Um, I think you'll all be very excited. If you haven't had a chance to review this, we'll go past this basic information of when the storm
hit and then when HUD uh forwarded money to us. 133.5 million is what we've been allocated through the process. Uh, same requirements for spending. 15% of the funds have to be used for mitigation at a minimum and we
have to complete our spending within six years. Here's the process as um we have gone through uh we went through extensive process for Milton's action plan development. We just knew what we were doing this time so we could make it go a little bit
faster. So we've got a great action plan um to present to you today. Um here's the income limits. Again, 70% of the funds have to be used from benefit low to moderate income individuals and we have to have a duplication of benefits analysis for every uh homeowner or every
project that moves forward. We had an unmet need survey with over 500 responses and you can see how the folks um provided us with their feedback. 20% infrastructure, 49% mitigation, and of
the um housing, 55% for buyout. And that is reflected in what we're proposing in our budget to you. Here's some of the data. $248 million and unmet housing needs, uh unmet infrastructure needs, 371
million. So, proposed six-year budget. Um oops, sorry, that zero slid over there on me. I apologize but I this is the really good news. 75% of the 133 million is going into three categories infrastructure mitigation and buyout
totaling 100 million of the 133.5 million. Um we were um extra creative with gathering data from the cities on infrastructure so that we could get to this number because I heard the direction and I wanted to get there. So this will really be able to help our
community. Um, we do, uh, I know that there was a comment out there in the community that we were sneaking buyout in this program. Buyout is allowed under Ian as well. We are just now starting that process, but um, it will be a big component of the Milton action plan and
our process moving forward if you all approve it and then subsequently um, it's approved by HUD. And with that, I'll be happy to answer any questions. Okay, questions. Uh, Councilman Robbins. I have a question. Question Matt
Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Donna, the same requirement. Say a city wants to address an infrastructure issue. Um, they still have to have skin in the game, so to speak. They do. And that's a HUD requirement, correct? Um, it's not a
HUD requirement. It's not. So, but we are required to score applications. Okay. All of the applications that came in last time from cities had some sort of a match. And the more match that they put in, the higher their score. The higher the score. Um, this case, any
project that was eligible in our first round under Ian, we funded and likely will be the same case for this round two, which would allow every city to have made an application for an infrastructure mitigation project. Moving forward, we're going to have to
be more competitive. So, cities are going to have to have money in the game and we are going to have to look at LMI. One of the benefits under this new program that's very exciting is previously you had to have a project had to have a low to moderate income
analysis for an area done and it would only count as LMI which is where 70% of the month funds have to be spent if 51% of that community area that was being served was LMI. Now we can take a percentage and apply it towards that. So
if 40% of that area is considered LMI, that 40% can be charged against the LMI. So we're not automatically eliminating a project from that. It's a great new thing that they've done. The I guess and I was planning on getting with this
later um with respect to uh a certain area. I was actually going to talk about during council comments, but um if this could assist a city in a certain area that we've I went through. I know the chairman had went through this area as well. Uh the Highland Park or Highland
area over there in Daytona Beach where they're next to a high school and they suffered extensive damage as a result of a storm water failure. Um whether or not these dollars could help Daytona uh if they applied uh to do that. But uh when I approached Dayton, I had to sit down
with them, they didn't have the match or the felt that they didn't have the match needed. Are there other programs out there that could assist them with that? And I'm probably getting a little off topic and maybe a conversation we need to have upline, but um yeah, we could have a more extensive conversation. However, um I don't have other resources
and they don't have to have a match. What that happens though, they need to apply. Their score goes way down. Okay. So sometimes um a city may not be able to bring as much to the table, but if they're serving a low to moderate income area, that can kind of balance out their
application. So it just depends on the community that they're or the area that they're trying to serve by the improvement. Okay. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. Okay. Can you take his name off so I don't call him again? Uh Councilman
Kent. uh comments if that's okay. Chairman, okay, one more question from Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um can you go back and and and clarify for me the point where you were saying that uh there's going to be different um going
forward with uh more skin in the game, I think you used the word with matching. Can describe that to me? Well, the reason why is because we're going to have way more amount of projects in a dollar amount than we're going to be able to fund. So, even with the
original, I think it was 92 million plus the 50 million that you've asked for us to put over, that's 142 million plus this 100 million. We're still going to have when we get done with 26 studies, I assure you those dollar amounts for those projects that
are going to want to come forward are going to be expensive. They are going to have land and property and home acquisition in them plus all of the storm water work that has to be done. So, if cities aren't coming with some kind of money, if some cities are and some cities aren't, you're going to see
a scoring difference and you're going to probably have to make some hard choices. How much have we allocated already to the approximately? 60 million. 60 million. How many cities have received that? Um, hang on. One, two, three, four, five, six,
seven, plus the county. Now, they've had multiple projects. You've seen these come forward and it's a total of 65 million. That also includes the three nonprofits that you approved. So some cities received for multiple projects within that 60 million. Yes sir. And
were those matches also? Almost well every single city had some match in. Some had higher match than others and some just had a little bit but every single one of them had some kind of match that they brought to the table. Uh reason I'm asking the line of
questioning is that um I get it that it's going to be more competitive possible. Well, there's going to be more project requests and monies available. Um, and I I would argue or consider arguing that um the the other nine cities that didn't
receive funds, maybe they shouldn't be held to that same standard. Maybe we have a step up. If if you've I'm throwing ideas now. If you've already received one, then your your match should be higher than another of the nine cities that
didn't receive any funding in that first wave. So the we have reopened the process for those that did not receive funds or if they received funds but had indicated and this is a source of potential funding match is their HMGP
grant that they had thought that they were in line for. So they were denied. So they've are back in. So if someone has not before been through the the process successfully, they are in the mix right now and the same scoring criteria is in place. You got where I'm going, right? I mean, if you already
received money, um, okay, then I think you know where I'm going. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Councilman Dempsey, you have a question or a comment. Okay. Any other questions? Troy Kent. Thank you, Chairman. Donna
Butler, you listen to this council and we listen to our constituents and we listen to Don Dempsey and you know um I'm I'm I feel much more comfortable
with with this before us and I'll just say because it was mentioned for me it's not a hard decision uh you know in the future because I believe our cities need to be partners parters and they need to come with money. And if they came with
money and we participated with them, I I might think a little differently than Mr. Santiago, but if they came with money, we participated with them and others did not come with any money, I I'm ready to continue to partner with those that have skin in the game and are ready to continue to bring money to the table. That's that's just
where I am. But you listened and thank you. Welcome, Councilman Dempsey. to reiterate what uh Troy said. I mean, thank you so much for kind of listening to my whining and kind of following that direction. Um yeah, this is this is
beautiful. And I think the fact that you're going to um ask these cities to be part of it and have, you know, money investments as well, I think that's appropriate because when you hear these people come and complain about the situation, they're not necessarily even blaming the county for the problem. a
lot of times they blame uh one of the cities for allowing things to happen, but they're coming to us. So, it's it's good to see that we're going to ask the cities to contribute to the resolution because Yeah, I agree. I don't I think George and I talked. It's going to be
hard to fund after all these studies are done. It's going to be hard to fund what's necessary to fix these problems if we can. So, it'd be great to actually get these cities to put, you know, stake money up to cure the problem. So, thank
you so much. I can't be any happier than what you presented. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Johansson. Thank you, sir. Um, as as you all know, I'm um one of one of the co-chairs on the flooding subcommittee on the round table of
elected officials. And one of the things we talked about u from the get-go and and we're in our third meeting now is that that cities work together with the county to produce no harm to other
cities. So as these projects come up, I'm hoping and praying that that that we make the hard decision to put the money where it's needed the most in the county. We we very often do a peanut
butter spread of oh everybody's got to get a little bit of money. There's a lot of money there. Everybody every city's got to get some. But um you know I'll pick on on Carmen Rosamanda. He he says the berry is doing pretty good because
we prepped for this beforehand. Um, so he might not get or need as much money as Daytona, the Highland area or or somewhere down in in Ostein or something like that. So So we may have to make
that hard decision. Um um but but the good news is is is it seems like on the subcommittee and through the round table that we're getting all 16 cities to think about each other and and come up
with with plans that kind of uh uh uh intertwine with each other and and George and and Ben's back there sleeping. Um uh sorry he's awake. uh they're doing a great job working with the practitioners and the city managers
to make sure that all that data is in one place so uh Donna can do her job and get the right money to the right place and it might make sense to give it to South Daytona and Daytona at the same time because that those two projects
dovetail on each other. So uh uh I think I think we're very much on the right track here. Uh I I wish all I wish all flooding projects could go through Donna and and filtered down to be uh managed by the county because that would make
sure everything works. But that's just not how we do government here. Uh so so these uh networks of of cities, city 16 cities will uh benefit us through through a relationship that the city managers, the practitioners and the and
the mayors and the chair have. So, uh, Donna, thank you very much for for putting putting that money in the right place to get stuff done. Uh, uh, thank you for for being quick at at getting this one out. Um, now now you got to go
execute. So, I appreciate you. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Sher. I just want to clarify. I I I do support um skin the game from the cities. Maybe I my line of questioning wasn't good enough there. Um, I think I was just trying to put some light on um
that the first wave that we put out, not every city was ready to do it um for whatever reason. It could be they didn't respond quick enough, but it could also be that um they couldn't get what they needed to be done in time from us putting out the notice of the deadlines
for re receiving these funds. So, um I just wanted to make sure that the other nine cities are not at a disadvantage now because they did not make those time frames um that their their requests have the same validity um as the initial requests. That was the reason and they
do. Yeah. Good. Yeah. And skin of the game. Absolutely. Thank you, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Real quick and I got to say thank you because it is an answered and we appreciate that. But I also want to make sure you're okay because when Jake made the comment about
all flooding projects going through you, her heart skipped a beat. So you could literally see it from the podium. So I want to make sure she's okay. We're good. Okay. All right. Thank you very much, Donna, for what you've done. Appreciate it. You got a great team between your team, myself, his team, my team. We're all working together to get
this accomplished. We're trying to best as we can with the storm water studies and design in most cases for the big projects that are going through. Um so you'll start seeing a lot of agenda items coming through hopefully on consent and moving right on. Amen. Um
this will take after we submit this in our HUD system uh it will take 45 days for review and um as soon as our um software system is ready to take applications. We will reopen applications for homeowners which will
include for the buyout program as well. So thank you. Yep. Okay. So the motion on the floor is to approve the disaster recovery action plan for Hurricane Milton. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And thank you. It
is approved seven to zero. Item eight, property insurance renewal within excess of 2% savings unlike last year where everything went up it seemed like. Motion to approve. A second. Motion to
approve uh by Danny Robbins, second by David Santiago. Well, and all of the policies are outlined in your agenda items. So, if you have any questions, we'll answer any questions you might have on this, but it
is a savings of over 2%. Nice. Good job. Okay. Great job. No questions, no comments. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? And motion carries seven to zero. Another brilliant presentation
trying to get through for Don. Okay, that was item eight. Item nine, ordinance 2025-13, reducing accessory sheds and fence permitting requirements.
Good afternoon. Uh Klay Irvin, director of growth and resource management. Uh the county council directed staff to look at ways we could improve our permitting process and improve our efficiency. We went forward and what you see before you today is that folks installing sheds under 480 ft will no
longer need a building permit for that. Also for fencing that is not otherwise required for uh swimming pools. U will also not require a permit. Uh these will be handled through a code enforcement process. Additionally, we will be doing public outreach to make sure folks
understand what the standards are so that that way when they do the installation of these items, they will be in compliance with the code. Made it through your planning and land development regulation commission. We're here to answer any questions you may have. Motion to approve. Second. Go ahead. Did
they beat you to it? No, no. I wanted to say something. Okay. We have a motion to um approve by Councilman Robbins and a second by Councilman Johansson and questions. David just comment Mr. Chair. Okay. Just wanted to say freedom and
liberty. Welcome to Valuchia. Keep doing it. Anyone else? Okay. All in favor of ordinance 2025-13, please say I. I. Any opposed? And that also is approved 7 to
zero. Okay. Item 10 is a proposed vacation. Motion to approve item 10. Okay. Second. This is second. The next
two items are uh quasi judicial hearings. Does anyone have any exparte to declare on either item 10 or 11? None here. None. Okay. Uh item 10 and 11 are very similar. They're both in the same uh subdivision. We're just vacating uh
existing uh alleyways at the rear of the properties. Uh property owners uh uh were in favor of it. The utilities had no issues and uh as always, we've been trying to get rid of these as much as possible. So, any question?
Any questions? Is there a motion? Danny. Okay. 10 and 11. Motion to approve on 10 and 11 by Robbins and Kent. Can we do that? We do both of them at the same time. I'll just
write it down so I don't have to ask again when we get there. Yeah. Do you have anything you want to present on 11 or I've already It's the same on both. All right. So, then I think you can. Thank you. Okay. So, we're voting to approve uh both vacations. This is
pretty standard on 10 and 11. All in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? You're getting better at this, Ted. Motion carry seven to zero. Work on his button though. Item 12, ordinance
2025-01. Good afternoon, Claire, growth and resource management director. Um, the county council last year approved comprehensive plan amendments that were consistent with the directives that we received from prior county councils in regards to our affordable housing strategies. This is an ordinance that
implements those requirements. Uh some of these are statemandated such as the expedited review. Uh others are tied to recommended best management practices such as the deferral of impact fees. Um again it's a deferral such that if the u
housing remains affordable for the set time frame then they would get the impact fees waved. If not then we would be collecting them. Also similar situation with uh uh building permit fees. Also, there are density bonuses broken down by the different residential
uh land use categories. Again, um this is implementing the comp plan amendments that y'all approved last year. So, these are the same things that you saw in that body coming forward and being able to be implemented through the zoning and land zoning ordinance. Motion to approve.
Second, Joe Hansen. We have a motion to approve item 12 uh by Councilman Robbins and a second by Councilman Johansson. Any questions from anyone? Any
comments? All in favor of the motion on the floor? Just Oh, yeah. I just wanted to just reiterate to be consistent with all my previous votes. I just I don't like the idea of incentivizing more development. I think um like I've said earlier today, I mean, we're at the cusp
of a bust and I don't I just don't think the average taxpayer in Valuchia County is wanting more development. So, I just don't like the idea of using their tax dollars to incentivize more development. Um I'd like to see if possible this shifted over to LID
um um initiatives or incentives. But again, just you've heard it ad nauseium from me over the years. So, I'm just going to let you know I'm still a no vote on this because I don't like incentivization of more development. Thanks. Okay, we have a member of the
public who would like to speak. John Nicholson. You're reading the Dand Beacon, right? Yes. Okay. John, Daytona Beach site. The city of Daytona Beach has been pushing affordable housing 15 years. Um, two
weeks ago or so, a group came before uh the commission with regard to a affordable housing project that the city I think and the county went in on on uh Clyde Moors Boulevard. Apparently,
um those people living in the affordable housing section are complaining about the quality of uh the construction. All right. Um I'm asking you to think twice uh when you do the affordable housing giveaways that nothing be given away
with regard to the construction or the livability of the people that are in the building. Uh this project is 6 months old or so. uh and they are already having problems with water leakage, the whole nine yards. It's as if it's been a hutous housing project that's 30 years
old and it's only six months old. So, um I'm asking you just to be cautious if you're doing this. Don't give too many giveaways. Thank you. Thank you. No one else from the public. No one
else from the dis. Then we have a motion to approve. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? I. And the motion carries
621 with Don Dempsey uh voting no. Um Don, you were here for most of the you have to leave at 1 or 1:30. quarter to one. Okay. Um well, let's do item 13. Right away
license agreement. Right ofway license agreement with May Shantushi for the University Boulevard beach approach. And I will tell you that if um uh if we approve this then item 14 goes
away uh because the developer will build our approach. Is that correct? Correct. And then explain it to us. You just did. That's fantastic. Uh item 13 is a rightaway license agreement. Usually we bring use agreements. In this case it's a license
agreement. There are some uh legal differences between the two. Uh but uh in this case, what uh the applicant or the uh person we're reaching the agreement with uh Shentohi would be uh constructing the beach approach as uh as
detailed. uh they are um in return getting the use of 10 parking spaces. Uh that they would uh pay basically about half of what we would get if we were um uh receiving payment for those spaces by
non-county uh users uh if it had full occupancy. So that's what they're asking for is the ability to license those spaces for that time frame. In return, they'll pay half the price. They will construct the uh beach ramp and they will maintain uh uh the public portions
of that for five years. So that's the ask. Okay. And uh for questions? Nope. Just a comment for me. Matt, you have a question? I do. Vice Chair Matt Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Part of that re uh the rebuilding of the ramp by
the uh developer, does that include that public bathroom as well? I thought that uh I briefly spoke to the attorney handling that and he had mentioned that. I didn't know if that was part of it or did he not know that? I don't recall that being on and I don't see him here. Right.
Supposed to be back here in a minute, but uh no, I I don't recall and I don't recall that we were constructing a bathroom at that location. Okay. I could have sworn he had mentioned that. So, correct. He's got a he's got a request to speak. So, maybe he'll be back. No, there's going to be a bathroom
whether we constru that you're aware of. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Okay. And for comments, Councilman Troy Kant. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Council, the main reason I am okay with this be allowing them to pay half the price is
because they're also going to be doing those improvements of a little over $300,000 for for the beach ramp. So, because of that and uh and then and then us getting that guaranteed income, um that's why I'm okay with this. Thank
you. Okay, I'll give him one last try. Um, Mark Watts. Yeah, I think he's for it. Yeah, I think so, too. I don't need the answer to that. Then,
um, item 13, the motion. Uh, do I have a motion to approve? Move to approve. Second. Motion to approve by David Santiago, second by Vice Chair Reinhardt. Uh, no other questions, no
other comments. Uh, Mark Watts, I'd suggest you don't talk yourself out of this. Did you still want to speak? Any questions? Did you hear the questions about the bathroom?
So, I I'm sorry. Can you come up to the mic? Because there are there is no bathroom on the plans. Correct. Correct. Okay. Then I heard wrong. Correct. Yeah, there's no bathroom on the plan. Okay. All right. But we want one now. Just we're approving this with a
bathroom. Thank you. You know, I sat here all morning. Thanks so much. You guys go get lunch and uh Yeah. Okay. His, her, and family. All right. All in favor of item 13, say
I. I. I. Any opposed? And that motion carries unanimously seven to zero. I could have I could have asked for a fountain. Oh jeez. Oh blow. Motion to approve item 14. Second Johansson. U Mr. Chair. Item 14.
We don't we don't need to approve item 14 because then we we're paying for what they just paid for. It's withdrawn. Oh, that's right. Y 15. So item 15 then item 15 is the ocean center monthly
parking rate increase and uh director Flanders, are you going to present this to us? Yes, sir. I am. Okay. Good luck. Good luck. Oh, give us one second here,
please. Yeah. Yeah, we'll vote for you. See you guys. Good luck. Yeah. Okay. Uh thank you for for that. Mr. Dempsey had to had to leave. Um we we will have one member of the public who
wants to speak on this. Uh so Director Flanders, please tell us about the parking rate increases. So there are two parts to this request. The first request we presented um I believe two sessions ago to uh for some parking
increases or to basically just uh shore up our parking. We had several different pricing in our model. We inadvertently left off monthly parkers. So we need to add them back. So, we're asking that we can uh increase the monthly or put the
monthly parking back in that we had um uh left off and the price would go from $60 to $70 a month for monthly 75 monthly parkers. Thank you, Troy. Yeah. So, that's the first part. I think we have um question some questions. Okay,
Councilman Santiago. So, they're asking for a $5 reduction. I'm struggling with that. Oh, you're in you're in the next section, huh? You jumped ahead. Nope, it's on this. No, I know it is, but do you want to go ahead and talk about that now? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. We're going
to do both of them at the same time. Okay. So, the the second part is the Ocean Walk Centers has requested um a discounted pricing for five to $5. After talking with Pete, who is here, he's the general manager of the property outside.
Um he is he is now requesting an offseason only a $ five dollar parking rate um limited to restaurants only and he can speak better to that to the reasoning why but it's literally an off in in offseason and non-ourist season
they struggle the the to get people to come there and and eat at their restaurants is the reason for the request Lyn is it $5 or $10 I'm so it's $5 as Pete originally requested did it. But what um we have also talked about
outside is that if we reduced it to 10, if there was not an appetite for $5 and we were able to reduce it to 10 and then his people, his restaurant owners can buy vouchers from us for $5 and then
they pay $5 on their way out. So then everyone has basically $5 skin in the game where we've we've discounted our pricing to 10. They've bought in for $5 and then the customer pays five and this would be just during offseason only.
Um, can I ask please? Okay, my eyes have crossed a little bit. I'm confused. Okay, so is the total fee 15 or is it 10? We charge $15 now for our pricing. So the then the the shop owner would pay five and then the
consumer would pay five. That's where the 10 comes to us. Exactly. In some format. Exactly. and and they have changed their request to be during the off season. When is the offseason and how long does it last? The off season is uh o uh Pete, what do you consider the
off the off season? October 31st to March 1st. Okay. October 31st to March 1st. So basically November 1st through March 1st. I know that's what we consider offseason. I wasn't sure. Yes. Four
months. Mhm. And how many restaurants are there? Seven. I was gonna say four. Seven. Yes. Are they all uh occupied with tenants? Yes,
sir. All right. I'm just interested to see what my colleagues say. I don't I might have changed my position. So, right now it's $15 currently. For how long? However long. However long.
Okay. And so the request is $5 no matter how long. So right now we have a graduated rate. We have $5 for the first hour for one day. Yeah. $10 for the second hour. Then anything over that is $15 and then it's
$30 overnight. Okay. Mr. Chairman, if I could just for clarity because I I know we're struggling with uh the rates here. I think the question to council is are we willing to keep the $10 rate for uh beyond the 2-hour period. Uh what the
rest what the what the property manager chooses to do to buy down below $10 uh will be up to them, but the request to council is to go from a $15 to a $10 uh during that offseason period. That's the
bottom line. Yes, sir. Not not $5. And that's what's changed today from when the agenda was published. Okay. Okay. Uh, Councilman Kent, it just comments, chairman. So, um, for the
first part, the Ocean Center, uh, seeking approval from $60 to $75. I'm okay with that, just so the council knows. Uh, Mr. Santiago, I I share your concern for the second part, and there's there's two reasons why I have concern about it.
Um, I'm scratching my head up here a little bit because it wasn't as clear as it needed to be. Miss Concin had to jump in to try to help us with that, to make it clear. I'm still not completely clear on it. I I don't know how I feel about just for
the restaurants. But what I really don't like is the $48,000 reduction because we helped lead the charge on changing these the price and at what time things changed to benefit the county. And I believe before we did
that, there had not been a significant change in a long time. So the $48,000 uh is what's jumping out at me. It's got me um very hesitant to uh to implement that part. But first part I'm I'm okay with.
Okay. Then it sounds like we might better separate these two and get a vote on on each one. Um so let's do the the monthly rate of $75 the increase that uh Director Flenders is asking for. Yep.
Move to approve the $75. Second. Motion to approve by Santiago. Second by Troy Kent. All in favor of the monthly increase say I. I. Any opposed? And that
part passes seven to zero. Now the the daily rent. Mr. Chair, just for the record, it's 6 because Mr. Dempsey It's 6. I'm sorry, sir. It's been 70 all day, Mr. Chair. Almost. Oh, I was going to make a motion. Uh
you're going to make a motion on the uh $5 $10 $10 uh in offseason. Yes, sir. Okay. Go ahead. I move to deny the request of the reduction in the fee for the reasons of uh the the fiscal impact
on the county. Second. Okay. Uh Councilman Santiago makes a motion to deny the request. and Troy Kent makes the second questions. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt,
mine was more of a comment. Okay, Chair, go ahead. Thank you, Chair. Um, I I get that, too. Um, I understand that. The only thing I'm struggling with is the fact that uh the comment was made about their business suffering during off season. Um, and we we've been a council
that really backs small businesses or any business for that matter, especially in in Valuchia County and what it may bring to that area. And we're trying to increase the Well, you're doing a phenomenal job increasing the shows over there at the Ocean Center. So, we want them to be able to enjoy those
restaurants because my understanding is we'll have those shows during the offseason as well. and we want those individuals not to leave there and just go home, uh, but also entertain some of the local restaurants and and shops and whatnot that are nearby. So, I'll be curious to hear if anybody else has any
comments with respect to that, but that's the one issue I'm struggling with, why not uh to allow that uh that change. Okay, Councilman Santiago. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for sharing your thoughts there, M. I I I was a no and then I was a yes
and now I'm a no. Uh and I'm still a no. Um but you know the people that go to the the events like you said they already passed that two-hour threshold. So they're already going to pay the $15, right? So if they or they pass $10, so they're going to stay for dinner. It's not going to really make it's not going
to influence their behavior. I doubt it. Um and yes, I I I was sympathetic to the businesses struggling during the offseason. Um but all those businesses suffered during the offseason. are we going to start subsidizing some of all of those other people around there or wherever it is that suffers during the
time. So I just see it as picking winners and losers and that's why I I I struggle from that perspective. Um and I I want the business to be successful but I don't think that's our role on this particular scenario. Thank you, Mr. Chair, because of the fiscal impact again. Yeah. Thank you. And and Troy,
before I call on you, I will just uh let everybody know that the uh Peter is it? Pearson. Pearson, your rating is just like mine. Um um he's a manager, correct? And we we
will hear from him and then another member of the public, but go ahead. Uh Councilman Kent, thank you. Yeah, just to um tag along with uh the question that Councilman Reinhardt said or had, you know, the the $10 for entertainment
event parking at Peabody and the Ocean Center. You know, they pay $10 for any entertainment event they're going to and then they can go to dinner as well. You know, with with that, they can come for an early dinner or go for a late dinner and and they're covered there. Uh and I
agree with you, Councilman Santiago. At what point do you say, "Hey, you know, we're doing it for this group, but not for this group." And, you know, where else are we going to jump in and and and help? Um where the
the private sector can can certainly do their part. You know, our our fees and things, our bills don't diminish. We still we still have to provide and pay for those. And this is um government in in my opinion uh interfering in a place
that we certainly don't have to interfere. Thanks. Thank you, Councilman Santiago. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just thought about one thing. One thing that I as an individual would be willing to entertain is the the mechanism to allow for the business owner to buy down the rate. Um because that's part of this
request, right? They're not capable of doing that today, right? The original the original request is a $5 which was on and then we changed to $10 and then any if you even if it's $15 they have the right to buy a $5 voucher. Yes. Okay. So the voucher can they buy a
voucher today without any involvement of us? Absolutely. Okay. Then I'm then we can leave things as it is with the motion to deny. Okay. Uh Pete, you want to come take your three
minutes? Thank you. Hey y'all. Thank y'all for letting me come out and talk to you today. I took over Ocean Walk Shops in uh December. But when I came to Oceanwalk Shops, he was not just saying that I wanted to make Oceanwalk Shops better. I wanted to make all of Daytona Beach surrounding
that area better. That includes Main Street, the boardwalk, the ocean, uh the ocean shops, the ocean center, um you know, the Hilton and all those places, they have their own parking, but everywhere else around us does not have parking. And I came in the time when it
was a slow season. You know, that is a slow season of time, which is October 31st to March 1st, you know, essentially the end of February. I've been doing this for about 15 years. I moved down here from North Carolina and took over businesses here in Florida and I've seen it fluctuate at each place I've been.
I've been in Panama City Beach. I've seen the slow season. I've been in Fort Lauderdale. I've been in Miami. I've been in Daytona Beach. I've been I've been able to see the slow season. And what we're asking for is just help when it comes to people who want to come out
and use the businesses, not just at Ocean Walks, but in the area of that same spot. Again, we're not just helping we're not just trying to help the people here in at Ocean Walt Shops. We're trying to help everybody in the whole area surrounding us. Um, you know, we
did quote it down from everybody gets gets a little share of the pie. Now, I'm just asking for help with the restaurants. And what Lynn didn't mention there is that we we're going to get we are asking for the validations from the ocean from the ocean center that we can buy um from them for their
customers to be able to use. And we're not just going to give them to everybody. We're not just going to say, "Hey, welcome to Ocean Walk Shops. Here's your ticket. You get out." All right. And here's your ticket. You get out. No. they have to come to these restaurants and they have to spend x
amount of money to be able to get that validation. So to be able to get that validation, let's say uh Bubba Gump Shrimp Company sets a $100 minimum. So somebody has to come in and spend $100 to be able to get this validation ticket to get out. So they're still putting the
money into the validation ticket, but they we're not just passing them out willy-nilly. Everybody gets one. Um, also you said sir about the people are coming anyways for the events during the off season at the ocean center. We were
going to take it away during the events. So this is the absolute slow nothing's going on. So there's no events, there's nothing going on. It's just a random week in the middle of the winter time with no absolutely nothing going on. And that's when we're going to validate
passes. But otherwise, no other times. just slow season and when there's nothing else going on just to hope that people will come and spend a little money in our area. Thank you. Thank you. Um before I call on you, Troy, let's
hear from the last member of the public, John Nicholson. John Nicholson Bside. I wasn't going to speak on this, but um it raises the point, you know, I live in the area. I lived there 40 years. I'm sure you're
aware COVID changed restaurants. All right. Uh there have been a lot of uh dieh hard restaurants that have been around for 50 60 years that closed. Uh many of the iconic restaurants in Val County closed. People are not going out
to restaurants. It is really a hard time. uh this particular area uh relies, let's just say, on tourism because what do you do when the ocean center invites 14,000 people to the
ocean center and they go out for lunch or for dinner? Two restaurants are not going to serve 14,000 people. There is a need not only for the restaurants that are there now, but more restaurants. If you've been there at any time when there's a major event, and we have nine
major events in the city plus the summer, you will walk outside and there's a line at the little restaurant right on the corner. So, you're talking about every single restaurant will have a line for lunch and for dinner because there not enough of them. We cannot
afford to lose more. And I understand you're sitting there saying, "Well, we can't sit there and pick and choose who wins and who loses." But we do that all the time. You just did affordable housing. You chose who you're going to subsidize and who you're not going to subsidize. This is just a subsidize for
people that you invited to the neighborhood. Ocean shops is tied to the parking garage is tied to taking cars off the beach. They're all interrelated. It would not have been
done without the parking garage. city-owned parking garage because they were attached to it. They did not have to build a parking garage because the city and the county were doing their bit to help the area. So, this is something
that's been done in the past. And what we're doing is they're asking because of the situation right now, there's a time period in which there are no tourists. So if we want restaurants for when the tourists do show up in mass, we've got
to keep these restaurants going because nobody can go 4 months without an income. So they're helping that time frame when there is no income to help keep them open. So when we absolutely do need them, they will be open. Thank you.
Thank you, uh, Councilman Kent. Thank you, Chairman. my last uh I believe my last bite on this and I I'll just say uh before the gentleman who um spoke on behalf of the Oceanwalk Shops spoke, I was going to say, you know, it'd be nice if the if the restaurants themselves, if
there was a threshold that needed to be hit, you know, whether it be $50 or $100, then, you know, they let their customers know, hey, we're going to pick up x amount of your parking. And it sounds like they already have that plan in place that they're they're going to do that.
So it it it makes me even more resolved to say I don't believe it's government aka taxpayers job to keep x number of restaurants in business at the oceanwalk that I recently I believe read where um
is it Krabby uh Joe's Crabshack had was having a a banter year if I read correctly like it was incredible and the city of Daytona Beach has a contract with them that they receive x amount amount of and if I'm wrong on this I apologize but I believe X amount of whatever their profits are
you know after it reaches a certain threshold and you know the county doesn't have agreements like that with the restaurants at at Oceanwalk and you know my belief is that people aren't going to restaurants as much I can just talk about the Kent household because we
do it better healthier and cheaper at home than what I'm receiving at many basis. Now, that being said, we went out for Cinco de Mayo last night because if you don't go out for Cinco de Mayo, Io, Io, Io, Io, Io, Io, I don't know that I want to hang out with you. You know, it
was a great it was a great meal last night. I ate Italian yesterday. Oh gosh, David, I can't even talk to you right now. But my my my point is is that I don't I don't believe that it is taxpayers responsibility
to subsidize this um any more than they already are. So I'm I'm still with U Councilman Santiago as a I'm going to vote yes on this because we're denying it. Councilman
Johansson. Yeah, I'm I'm not tipping my hand on how I'm going to vote, but I I do want to bring something up that that our conversation has sparked a thought. Um, in the in the offse, is there a Mexican restaurant in the ocean shops? I
I apologize. So, so if I invited you all to Cinco de Mayo and said, "Let's go to the ocean shops," would the answer be, "Yeah, we got to we got to pay 15 bucks to park, but after we get in there, we'll have a
good time, or would we say, let's just go somewhere else where we don't have to pay parking?" Dur during the off season, I would I would opine that a certain high percentage of people that
would go there um are us the taxpayers. Um so the question becomes to me do is 48k um you're actually putting money back in
let's say 80% 75% of of taxpayers pockets so they can go support or go out and eat at least at ocean shops and there's some great restaurants there as well. Um so so have we done that in the past?
Have we done anything that that puts money back in the uh in the pockets of our taxpayers? Not by reducing their their property taxes by but by putting money back in their pockets.
So, here we are looking at an opportunity to put money back in my pocket. If I'm going to go there by by parking at the uh um at the Ocean Center parking lot and going across the street, I'm not going to go there if I got to pay 15 bucks before I put a bite of food
in my mouth uh or or a beer in my belly. So, so that that that's my thought process and and where we are with this. Having said that, Mr. Kemp brought up a a a great or somebody brought up a great idea. When it's going gang
busters, whoever, both of you guys, when it's going gang busters, is there any way we can pay it forward and say, "Hey, look, we're we're making money hand over fist, can we can we throw uh a little payback your way so
in the off season we can get that discount and not have to worry about the vouchers?" I don't know. Uh maybe there's an arrangement can be made when when it's summertime and it's going gang busters. We can prep the battlefield for
the off season. Um so we're we're we're not sprinting and drifting and going from I'm I'm buying cars and boats to I don't have any money. Those are my thoughts. Thank you. Thank you. Uh Vice Chair Reinhardt.
Thank you, Chair. Um try respect your your opinion wholeheartedly. I do. I really do. Um, and I don't often take the second bite, but I I would be remiss if I didn't. So, you're right. Government does not have a responsibility for that. But I do think government does have a responsibility
with respect to economic development. And just last meeting, we approved the fact that we would terminate the UCF incubator program because we could do it better to assist small businesses to help these. This is a way
of helping them. Um, I'm I'm with respect to the city of Daytona Beach receiving money from that uh business out there. They own the boardwalk, so they're going to get paid for that. We don't own those shops at the Oceanwalk, so we don't get that. So,
there's the difference between that. But, I'm still firm in that. I I think uh it's pretty well said where I'm going to go on this. I I still want to help them out during that off season. I respect the fact also and I love the fact that you will have control over uh when the voucher goes out when they
don't. But that's your call that you you know there the businesses that's your call. So there's no say in what we have to say about that. But I did like hearing that. So and that's all I had. Thank you Councilman Santiago. Thank you Mr. Chair. You know the the the problem we
struggle too I mean these these business Oh, let me ask this question first. How long has that fee been in place? the $15 price since April or 23, I believe. And before that was what fee? I'm not I know you're new. Sorry. Well, there's always been a fee. I'm assuming, right? So, you
know, these these businesses again, they they do their due diligence, at least they should, right? So, if I'm if I'm going to open up any business in an area that I know the majority of my customers have to do paid parking to to to come to my business and I would think that I
would should formulate that into my equation on how many people I think I'm going to get to come to my business. So, um I I I I just I think it's still picking winners and losers. Um, and I can probably put 48 thou I know it's only 48,000, but I could probably put
that in a better place that has a better return to our constituents. Um, than picking in this case what I strongly strongly believe is winners and losers. Um, these these businesses should have a model that incorporates how they obtain their
clientele and there's no reason for us to give up 48,000. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? And the motion on the floor is to uh deny the um the daily rate, keep it at $15
uh for the um uh months of October 31th to March 7 for the Ocean Walk attendees. Um would you call the role, please? Again, we're voting on affirmative is a
vote to deny. Correct. Mr. Kent, yes. Mr. Reinhardt, no. Mr. Robbins. Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Johansson? Yes. Mr. Brower?
Yes. And so the denial is approved 5 to one. Yeah. I think this is a good time to to break. We don't have that much left with comments. Um, I was going to suggest you do have the family here for
item 16. They've been waiting. It might be nice if you could get Oh, that'll be fine. That'll be quick to approve item. You've been here all day. Okay, we'll let's complete item 16. I
hope this goes well for you and I'll second it. Nomination of Captain Frank Gardner Gould. And who made the uh I think David made the the motion. You make a motion. Yes, sir. Made a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Second was by Vice Chair Kent.
Reinhardt. Vice Chair Reinhardt. Remember, we upgraded this year. And Michael. Wow. Oh, please continue with your vote. If if I'm okay. I If you don't need to make a presentation or hear one, I'm I'm okay. Okay. We we do
have um the applicant and a member of the family who would like to speak. Okay, we do. We have two of them. Uh so let's call them up. Uh first Steven and then Vincent Gold. I'm Name. No, you're not.
and just tell us which one you are and where you live. Okay. I'm I live in Dand Bluch County actually, not in the city. And um I'm fourth generation Dand. And um let me um I wrote some things that might help me. Are you Vincent or
Stephen? I'm Stephen. Thank you. Yes. I'm Vincent's son. And um Frank is uh my dad's uncle. Okay. Yes. I'm sorry. I wasn't ready. Uh I just got to get my notes.
Well, I just like to read this uh first and then um um let's see. Generations of the Gold family were born here, lived their lives here, and laid to rest here in Valuchia County. The Gold family arrived here in the 1880s. They own and
uh ran the original Putinham Hotel. Uh it was a beautiful woodframe hotel with a large area porch for patron patrons enjoyment. Uh Captain Frank Gold was born in Dand in 1907. The same year his father started the gold agency which is
still here in Dand and being run by the third, fourth and fifth generations. It was decided at a certain age that Frank would join the military. His father brought home brochures for the different uh military branches. It
was natural for him to choose to go into the Navy as he had grown up going to the Valuchia County beaches and spending a great deal of time on the St. John's River. Um he loved the water. Uh the ship he served on was the USS Starret. Uh during World War II, it served in the
Atlantic escorting ships uh while protecting them from yubot. Later in the war, it was moved to the Pacific and was involved in many battles including the um Guadal Canal. Uh one in one such battle, the command tower had been hit
and all the guidance systems were rendered inoperable. Uncle Frank was commissioned to guide the ship back to base by the stars. Um, also I call him Uncle Frank. Um, received the Navy Cross, um, one of the
highest honors given by the US Navy. Um, people that met him would always walk away with the impression of having met a genuine southern gentleman. It would be a a real honor for the 44 bridge over the St. John's River to be
named after Captain Frank Gold. It would be an honor to the family, the community, and most of all, Captain Frank Gold. Thank you. And I just uh this is I meant to hold this up, but um he did get this
for the land. Wow. So, thank you so much. And Vincent, lady and gentlemen, I I'm Vincent Gold. Uh And uh just a little more background as you say he he was born and reared into
land and uh he did spend a lot of time on the St. John's River where there they had a little cabin cruiser. He distinguished himself at the battle of Vela Bay. they where they uh
doing to parlay. His efforts as command commander destroyer sank a three destroyers and one other ship of the Japanese navy and he was instrumental in
excating them from the bay because there was a big Japanese battleship down at the el end of the bay that was kind of a dangerous situation but he was able to get them out of there without a problem.
But uh we come before you in effort to have you support naming the beautiful new bridge over the St. John's River uh in in
memory of Captain Frank Goul. Uh and uh and as I understand it's the state's purview to name the bridge for someone and we hope you will put the your effort or recommend
that Frank be uh named as the recipient of the name on the bridge. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming in. Okay. Uh Troy's name was up first and he inadvertently hit
reset. Um so go ahead. Thank you, chairman. I I I appreciate that. I just wanted to say to this council and to the family that that is out here today. Um there are very few things that come
before our docket that um warms my heart and I absolutely loved this. I loved the background information and the one piece about here on August 6th and 7th,
1943 with Frank Gardner Gold's leadership and tactical expertise to lead his men through that historic battle in the Solomon Islands with the sinking of four Japanese warships without loss of life or damage to his crew or vessel.
You know, I was I was fortunate to have two grandfathers who survived served and survived World War II. My sweet mother's father, John T. Counts, was a US Army
airman who flew B17s and was at Pearl Harbor on December 1741 during that day that lives in infamy. And Mr. Kent, the real Mr. Kent, who had a hoola dancer tattooed on his
forearm and at the age of 85 could still make her dance when he flexed his his right arm. The real Mr. Kent, he island hopped. He was an infantry marine and he island hopped. And I just have to tell
the family when I read this, it made me immediately go back to two incredible men in my life. And I know you're extremely proud of this. I'm proud of
this. The only wish I had is that this had been done 21, 22 years ago. I know the bridge of course wasn't wasn't happening, but to honor people when they're still alive so they get to see it. You all get to
see it. But I am a huge yes on this for all of the right reasons and thank you for being present today and um for having such a bad to the bone awesome
guy in your lives who represented this country in such a positive way and took care of not only his country but his fellow servicemen. It's uh it's it's wonderful to um be able to say these things to you all. Thank you, Chairman.
Councilman Johansson, I have a few questions for Mike. Um where does this nomination go? Commerce. I'm sorry. Did you say when transportation? Where where does the nomination go? Department of
Transportation. That will depend on some on the direction you provide to us today. We would most likely engage John and our legislative delegation with with the easiest path forward is as a letter of support. We would then reach out and re-engage Lake County um to get them
back involved and move forward with a letter of support and and depending on how much direction you give us, we can then got it. Having said that, then I'm understanding that you've done some leg
work with Lake County to no avail or or with with no real step forward to say we support. Their indication was they um are neither supporting nor opposing. I think they're on the sidelines waiting to see what happens.
On the sidelines. All right. Um, I'm I would like to make a motion that uh Valuchia County nominate Captain Frank Gardner Gold Bridge dedication. Go ahead. We already
have a motion. So, I would like to ask if we can amend it. Okay. Um to or or let me do this. Keep the nomination, but I would like to ensure that our nomination gets copied to
um Lake County so they're aware right away uh that that that we're taking care of that because I I wish they had jumped on board early with a joint resolution. So um hopefully they'll get on board. Council, if I may, the applicants both
offered, you'll notice the third bullet point on your screen. the applicants offered the opportunity for us to reach out to Lake County and integrate a veteran from their county into the name as a way to draw both counties into the into the effort. So my understand that
if that's a if that's a selling point then so be it. But but if it is I mean if they're if they're not in if they neither approve nor deny that sounds like they're wishy-washy to begin with. Just let them let them proceed. I want this to happen and I'd like to see
it happen quick and it doesn't sound like they're that interested. We we have been given the um the indication that having both counties in full support would would expedite the request. So, we will after the vote today, we will reach out to them and see what we can do. I'm sure
I'm sure Representative Barnaby can help us a little bit. Thank you, sir. Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Um, Councilman Johansson, thank you for that. I mean, that would look better coming from both as well. I am really psyched about this. I I did have a
question though for the family. I went to school with a gardener Gould and graduated in 1982. Is that the same family? First cousin. Okay. So, lost track of him after 82, so I have no idea. I hope he's doing He's doing well. Okay. Tell them I said hi. So, I'm I'm a
big advocate, big supporter of this. I couldn't uh couldn't be happier that this has happened. You're right, Mr. Kent. There are so many things that we get to do on this council. This has to be one of the more exciting ones and the more beneficial to us uh when we get to do good things like this. So, that's all
chair. Thank you. Uh I just had a question for the attorneys. Um Michael has said, you know, according to the direction that you give us will determine how we go. What is the best direction we can give
them to have a positive outcome on this? Well, my understanding is you're going to reach out Lake County, see if they will participate. Um, I think FDOT is the agency actually we would make application to, but you can certainly involve our legislative delegation and
supporting that effort. Okay. Is that good for the motioners? Okay. Um, and then, uh, I'm going to call for a roll call vote, not because I doubt
how the vote is going to go, but I I I agree. I think it was uh, Mr. Kent that said this is an honor for us to to be able to honor your family in this way. And um I I just would like to
put that explanation point um behind this that we have it on the record that every one of us assuming that every one of us uh vote for it. I I think that's the way it's going to go. Um this is uh a proud
moment for Valuchia County and I hope Lake County sees it uh the same way. And um so no other questions or comments from council. All right, Carissa, would you
please call the role to uh approve this to reach out to Lake County and to submit it to FDOT? Mr. Kent, yes. Mr. Reinhardt, absolutely. Yes. Mr. Robbins? Yes. Mr. Santiago? Yes. Mr. Johansson,
go Navy. Mr. Brower. Yes. And um Donna is not here, but pretty it seems clear he would be also be a yes. But the motion carries uh
six to zero. And good luck with the outcome. And um okay, you are free to go to lunch and we will do the same. It's 1:15. I think we can be back at at 1:45. And yeah, we
before everybody leaves, we need a quick picture with the wake makes you happy. I don't know who's doing the who's taking the picture. He's taking the picture for you. Yes.
Okay. Okay. One, two, one, two, three. One, two, three. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming in. One, two, three. One, two. All right.
Good. Thank you. You already got one. for the That's sad. Okay. Why don't we get started with item 17? And and Russ, what if if you're going to lead us into this one? Yes, sir. Would
you uh include You probably are going to anyway, but tell us um exactly what information you need like start date. Yes, sir. How many members? Yes, sir. East and west, whatever. Yes, sir. You're going to do all that? Yes, sir.
That's your purpose? That's part of my purpose. Yes, sir. Please discuss. Do you want me to start or do you want Why are we waiting? Yeah. Okay. No, go ahead. Oh, wait. Go ahead. He'll catch up. Russ Brown, Deputy County Attorney. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of
council. I'm here today uh before you for item 17, the Charter Review Commission. Specifically, when I get to the end, I'm you're here today to tell me how many charter review commission members you would like to have on the commission. And we'll talk about that process. But as the council's aware,
every 10 years the county charter requires a charter review commission to be commissioned um to review and recommend changes to the county council um for changes to the charter. So it's and those recommendations go to the next
general election and that next general election is in November of 2026. The charter says you can't appoint more than 18 months prior to that next election which is why we're here now. We're at that mark. So what I'm asking you here today is based upon the charter you pick
the number of commission members according to general law. General law says you can have 11 to 15 members of the commission. At least for the last two times over 20 years and I think all the way back to the beginning just haven't found the the records. Uh the
commission has chosen 15 members for to be members of the commission charter commission review committee and that would allow each council member to select two members individually. It doesn't have to be in your district. It can be a greater uh outside your
district and anywhere in the county. And then the last the 15th member is voted on by a majority of council members. Um and then the commission starts their meeting. They have within one year to present the report to you as the council members and like I said they present the
report. You have to have three public hearings uh where those recommendations for what should be on the ballot are heard and the public's given an opportunity to comment and then we obviously have to make the supervisor of elections the requirement to make it on the ballot which is uh in August of
2026. So essentially today I'm asking you how many members do you want? We're recommending 15 and that will then start the process because the agenda item also has the standard application. It's a fillable PDF form that will hopefully go
live tomorrow. I'm looking at Miss Green. I think we've talked about that and getting with community informations to get that posted. applications will be open until June 30th and then at your one and only meeting, I think it's July 22nd if I'm not mistaken. Uh those
applicants will be before you and we'll ask you to each of you if you pick 15 to have two. Majority picks the 15th. We'll have a resolution at that time starting the commission the timeline and they start having their meetings. And so with that, unless there's any questions,
unless Mr. Dyer wants to say anything. I'll ask you how many members you would like to have on the commission and I recommend 15. I I have a question, but I'm assuming some Matt, you have a question? No, I was going to make a recommendation. Uh Danny or David, is this a question? Um, no. Okay,
Danny. Okay. You said uh you each member will get to appoint probably probably two. We appoint and then do we all vote on them? Because you said the last one, the 15th would be voted on by all. They don't all get They They all do. Yes sir.
I misspoke if I said that. I just meant as Who nominates that last one? Anybody. Any member of council can nominate with a second. You select as a group, right? Um and then when you have nominees just like your boards, you'll nominate a member and it's subject to approval of
the majority of council. Okay. Thank you. U Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, chair. I guess it's going to be who hits the button first on that 15th member. Um I if it is and I I would that being said, I I a firm believer if it ain't
broke, don't fix it. 15 has been the rule. It gives you an odd number so you don't have a a split vote on certain issues or items. So I I would recommend the 15 myself. Second. Okay. Um discussion.
Yeah, let's let's discuss each one and maybe we can vote on them all together. We'll see how this goes. But okay, so the number of members and um David would like to comment on that. Yeah, I I I'll support the the 15. It's been the the the norm. Um we can continue with that.
And then Matt, if if you're the one that presses the button first, I'll be voting no on that one. Okay. Uh, Councilman Robbins. Um, yeah, I'm good with the uh how it's been two per person and uh voting on them uh
individually for approval. Okay. And then uh that will happen on July 22nd. Correct. Yes, sir. Vote on today. You're just giving me the number. We start the applications open tomorrow. People have until June 30th to
apply. We come back to you July 22nd with the implementing resolution and your picks uh that form the commission and they start their work probably their first meeting I guess will be sometime in August probably and each of the 15 will have their individual vote
for them their nomination. Yes sir. Okay. So somebody would nominate somebody second you'd vote. Okay. Somebody nominate somebody second. You'd vote. Just like we do. Yes sir. For other they then elect their own chair. Yes sir. and they determine when their
first meeting is or are we telling them when their first meeting? We'll convene the first meeting for them based on their availability, but as soon as we can August, first part of September is what we're anticipating. Okay. So, a little flexibility there. Yes. A little flexibility, but I will say, you know, there are there is a this is a big
commitment. This is a a huge responsibility. It's a lot of time looking on other reports. A lot of time went into it. We have the same rules as any other board where if you miss two meetings, you're off. So members need to be uh present um for that commitment
because it is a big responsibility. Okay. Okay. Vice Chair Reinhardt. Yeah. Just a quick question, Russ. I'm sorry. Um do they have to abide by sunshine? Yes, sir. They do. Okay. That's the other and the other question you just asked for me. Thank you. Okay. Uh
Councilman Johansson. Well, you I got it answered. Thank you, sir. Okay. So, if we could if we can put this all together, it sounds like what we've agreed to is 15 members. Um, two by uh seven here, two by each council member,
one uh from any or all of us. Each one of the 15 gets voted on um nominated second and voted on by the council. Uh July 22nd um um is when that uh picking
all those applicants happen and um I should have put this before but June 30th the applications would go out or be ready. No sir, the applications will be live tomorrow. That's a deadline. Oh, and then the deadline is June 30th. Yes, sir. Is June 30th application deadline?
I have one question. We'll make sure that you have a link sent to you too of the application. So if there are folks that Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Um before we vote, uh Councilman Santiago has a question for you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do we give any guidance on topics or they just decide on their own what topics they want to cover? you um in the in the past there have really they have it's been up to them.
However, if there are things that you want to request being looked at, I know for example, you've talked about the rule growth boundary issue. um you as a council have the authority to put something on the ballot or what I saw the council do in 2006 is they
waited got the report from uh charter review commission and then they then they added one before the general election you can do that as well but certainly if there's anything you want them to look at I think you can suggest that and we can relay that to them and correct me if I'm wrong certain items
that come from this committee uh go to the ballot and certain items in particular land use stuff would have to come and be adopted by us. Is that correct? Yes sir. So uh that's a bit of a change from 10 years ago. Uh state law
has changed. So if basically it's a lish related amendment kind of a bridging the description there. It would come to you council has the ability to say yay or nay whether to put on a ballot or to change it if you did want it to go on a
ballot. If it is not a land use amendment, the uh they make recommendations to you and you schedule them for election. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Okay. Any other
questions? Then let's vote on this setup of 15 members. Um two by each, one by all. Uh June 30th, uh deadline for applicants. July 22nd pick day and
um that's all you need. Correct. Okay. Is there a uh motion? Yeah, I made a motion to second by Johansson. Okay. Jake Jake Johansson makes a second. Vice Chair Reinhardt makes the motion. On those items, we've had
discussion. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed and that carries six to zero. Thank you. Okay. Chairs, east side and west side appointments to the echo advisory
committee and um this is for two years. It's actually technically for the remainder of a two-year term. So, it would be March 31st, 2027. Okay. Uh, East Side, I would like to nominate uh
Lee Washington. West Side, Thomas Lutka. I'll second for you, Chairman. Troy Kent makes the second. Um all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? And they are nominated
appointed 6 to zero. And at 206 we go into public participation. Do we have any? Thank you. Uh John Nicholson. John Nicholson, Daytona Beachside. Two items. You had a meeting about a month
ago with regard to the U oceanfront and the um seaw walls that went down. Uh, having gone to that, I thought and I was told that the concept of reefs offshore
as a way of protecting the um shoreline would be addressed. Uh, there was one sentence and one photograph and that's it. The takeaway was that they were going and pushing for
the uh breakaways. They wanted whatever they put in when the storms came in just to break away and that you would constantly replace these things time and time again. Daytona Beach did that. Uh we had uh cement steps on the boardwalk
that lasted 75 years and they decided to go with breakaways and because that was what the c uh the state wanted. So they put them in and every storm they'd break away and for five or six months the tourists couldn't get down to the beach. All right, which made no sense to me
because we're a tourist town and you do what's good for them. We didn't do that. So the second set of steps we put in were also breakaway in which the steps would break away. So you would have to close it down because all the steps
vanished. So we end up for 6 months without the tourists being able to get down to the beach or the residents for that matter. So, um, I'm asking you to really consider the value of reefs. They're permanent. There's several different kinds. There's heights,
there's widths, there's distance from this the shoreline. All of these things determine what happens upland. So, if we could look at that and that it's permanent, you put it in once and call it a day makes more sense to me than constantly replacing seaw walls. I would
ask you to think of that. Uh secondly, twice you've had a group come in on a one blip item. All right. The gentleman is supposed to have used the word n. Okay. Now I I mentioned before I
sit right over there and the three of us weren't quite sure whether he'd use the word the n-word. The gentleman who was here, black gentleman, said that he wasn't quite sure. So why do they keep blaming the
council? Because there's one of the council members that said, "I wasn't quite sure." And that's his reasoning. Well, if you didn't hear it one, because he said he almost didn't hear it. I just I listened sometimes. Sometimes I get tuned out, right, David? So,
um, I listened and I couldn't quite make out the word because I wasn't really expecting it. I don't think anybody here was expecting it. And I absolutely believe Kent, if he were here, would have jumped all over it. He's done that on several other things. So, I wish we
could at some point make it known. You did what you were supposed to do. You've done it. Let's drop the issue. Thank you. Thank you. Um, county manager report.
Yes, sir. uh come to my attention that uh the waiver for uh the building permit fees for damages due to the hurricanes uh that fee uh expired April
30th. Uh according to my team uh there are still people because of insurance issues that are uh still delayed and and not ready for their permits. Uh so if it pleases the council, I would like to have permission
to bring back a new resolution that would extend the waiver uh to January 1, 2026 for those permit fees for those damaged uh in the hurricanes. I could have it u apply back to the uh expired
date of April 30th, 2025. If so, directed. Anybody opposed? question. Uh, Council Santiago, um, could could we uh narrow that and
make it a requirement for uh settlement on the insurance? I think you mentioned insurance there's delays, right? They haven't gotten their payment yet. Yeah, it could be that and and I would because they show you can show proof of when the payment and the other thing I would say possibly is also some permitting and
engine um engineering for the permitting. It's probably the other reason Clay is, you know, folks are on the front line and they're the ones hearing the what the issues are, but we could narrow it to insurance and maybe engineering issues. I just don't want people to take advantage of something.
I'm I'm I'm for the benefit people that were impacted. There's no doubt. But, you know, people game almost everything and if we can put some controls around there, I'd prefer that. Clay, director of growth and resource management. We have a list of the properties that were identified as being damaged and those
who have provided who have submitted claims to FEMA for flooding and other similar type of things. So, we use that to verify. Someone can't just come in and say, "I've got hurricane damage." We automatically give them that. Okay. Well, so we have a method of verifying that they have been subject to damage
due to the storm. Awesome. That's that's good enough. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Now we know. So, it sounds like you got to go ahead. So, I got to go ahead and uh we'll bring it back at the next meeting. Okay. Thank you. That's uh that's all I have. Okay.
County attorney. Yes. Uh today is also George Rectenwald's birthday. Thought I would mention that. Um for real this time. It is really Ben Bartlett. So, you borrowed one.
Yeah. Uh I did send out to you yesterday just a bit of good news because it's I uh just wanted to touch upon it because I I was talking to Sheldon from the news journal at lunch and she said she's really looking for things to write for the county. So I want to uh give her an
idea. She's not acknowledging my conversation. But uh you have taken a position objecting to the designation of a spring protection zone for Silver Glenn. used a letter uh and adopted a
resolution to participate in the rule making process. So, because of a state law that was passed this session, it's changing the standard on when a spring uh protection zone could be established. Um based on what we're seeing now, the
state agency is not proceeding with the spring protection zone. That could change, but they wanted to evaluate the new state law. So, um I just want to acknowledge I think some of your efforts here were heard uh and voicing concerns
and the legislature reacted by changing the state law. So, obviously it will depend on the governor to sign the law as well. I think Councilman Robbins has a question or statement on that. Thank you, uh chair um county attorney. Uh
thank you for the update and and council just to hit quick on that. Uh it's sitting on the governor's desk. Uh there's still going to be a little bit of time before that uh language uh adoption. Hopefully he adopts it goes through. But uh I just want to say thank
you to to this council within uh less than five business days. Uh we called uh Leak, Wright, Gentry, Traymont, and Barnaby. and uh they also supported uh
unanimously all of Valuchia County. But, uh, what I'm going to ask the council, uh, to do at this point, can we draft a letter, uh, and send it, you know, through our lobbyists to get it to the governor, uh, for the adoption uh, or
him, you know, uh, signing signing this uh, language because it really uh, protects uh, the business and industry, the residents, property value up there. I mean, you name it for for uh, Northwest Faluchia. And I think uh, we're we're almost there. And I think
this letter would would would just solidify help solidify it. Do you have a a number, bill number? Uh, county attorney, do you have a bill number? Um, and you you want that to go to the lobbyist or directly to the governor, however we
get it there. Yeah, we could I'm working with Mr. Booker have a letter if you authorize on behalf of council encouraging the governor to sign Senate Bill 1388 Senate bill uh involving spring
protection zones. Okay. Uh is there anybody opposed to that? No. I would say if you want to work on that with Mr. Booker, county attorney.
Okay. Anything else, Danny? Yeah. And uh county attorney, during our um our uh briefing, you had mentioned some litigation had to do with the uh Matt, you're not allowed to comment on this uh the jail. Um do you have any updates
when it comes to uh it was some just some highlights that you guys were doing? Uh, I guess u when it came to challenging the subsistence fees or some sort of litigation, you guys were really kicking butt on it, saving us some money. Well, um, on
your consent agenda, item R, there was a a resolution. Uh what what happens typically is you have a right to pursue uh the cost of incarceration
um for different uh inmates. And so we've discussed this with council in the past u what that will cause us to do if we do have a say a personal injury case that we will counter claim for the cost
of incarceration to try to make the taxpayers whole in that that sometimes results um uh in in this case uh they uh dismissed their case if we dismissed our
pursuit of the claim. So, I think it's a good um cost-saving uh measure when it's available. Thank you. You have anything else? Sorry, I'm done. Thank you. Okay. Uh then we will start
with uh Councilman Kent. Thank Thank you, Chairman, George and Danny. Um, happy birthday and thanks for showing up on your birthday. Not everybody does, but you showed up both of you in a big way. So, so thank you. And, uh, Ben, of course, going to leave you out. Happy
birthday as well. to Al Iverson in the audience. I don't know why, but far on the east side of this county, I received a copy of the West Valuchia Beacon last week and I
loved it. I love reading through it and I loved your article that you wrote about auto insurance rates and it hit home with not only me but I'm sure with thousands of other people in Valuchia County and I just
wanted to thank you for bringing that to the forefront and you not only brought up the issue but you also brought up solutions possible solutions that the state legislators could could enact. So I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for that. I'm not sure if I told you all two
weeks ago. I think I did, but I did tour Miller Lake with staff um George and Ben. Again, thank you gentlemen for for that tour and that background information. FDOT has been working on State Road A1A and State Road 40 in
Orman Beach. And I had a concern. There was an email that came from FDOT. I responded with some concerns and they called me like within two hours. But council, I want you to be aware and I want staff to be aware. And George, I don't know if it's Ben and his team that
you that you turned loose on this, but in Orman Beach specifically on State Road 40 and on A1A, they have had some medians that they have put out and when you're making a turn, you are hitting those medians. So they came in and immediately took like
some sections 3 feet away, some sections like 8 feet away. You can see on the ground where they laid the concrete and then they picked up the concrete. I don't know how that happens. I don't I don't know how you you have a contractor laying stuff that is quite visibly in
the middle of the roadway and cars are hitting it. My most recent concern was almost in front of Billy's tap room on State Road 40, but definitely in front of Orman Memorial Art Museum. They put a
median type barrier on the right hand side and it literally was between 8 and 15 in into the roadway and cars had hit it repeatedly because there's scuff marks on it. There's chunks of concrete
missing from it. And I'm like, how does this happen? So, they they came in the next day and put some cones on it, not in front of it, but on it. And then I noticed yesterday they did redraw some
lines around it. But maybe projects like that, George, you can turn loose our people to help them to just say, "Hey, this is going to be a problem if you put this concrete barrier in the
road." And I told the gentleman that called me, I said, "Listen, if my car hit this or one of my families and there was either an accident andor damage to the car because of this, like I I would have a real problem." And I'm sure these people do as well. So, I just I want to
get that out there. This is I am not beating up on FDOT. I'm I'm appreciative of the improvements they're making, but maybe if they talk to people with local knowledge and maybe we go and look at what they're doing and just say, "Hey,
you know, this this is going to be a problem because it's in the driving lane." That would be helpful. council. Two weekends ago, my wife and I went down to the beach. We went on at
Millsap. It's the first time we had driven my truck on the beach in years. The attendant went to the back of my vehicle, typed in my license plate, and within 15 seconds, we were on the beach. We parked at the dog friendly section of
the beach. We were planning on staying an hour. I think it turned into four hours. It was a beautiful beach day. I wanted to tell you all my wife and I walked the entire dog friendly section of the beach. We counted 32 pups with their
owners. Everybody had their dogs on a leash. There was zero dog mess on the beach and it was literally the cleanest section of the beach I could have expected to see. I don't know if the smiles were bigger from the owners or the dogs and I I promise you some of the dogs were smiling when they walked by.
It was a great thing to see and if you haven't been over that way, I highly recommend you go check it out. My next district dialogue will be Monday, May 19th, which is coming up 5 to 6 p.m. at the Orman Library to
District 4 uh residents and and anybody else that wants to attend. This is an hourlong access to share your thoughts with me. We talk about anything you want to talk about uh pertaining to Valuchia County. So again, Monday, May 19th at the Orman Library from 5 to 6
PM. Uh, George, can you get a report or just some background information back to this council on summer lifeguards? I'm I'm concerned about it countywide, but I want to focus also on
the the North Peninsula up in Orman by the Sea. And I've had residents asking me about this, where we are with a plan. Um, do we have a plan uh to update and are we how are we with recruiting, you
know, more more lifeguards? But we have a large section up there, a beautiful beach. And I know people feel safer and they are safer when they swim in front of a lifeguard. And um, I'm proud of of our lifeguards and I want to make sure
that we have that taken care of. And my last thing, council, I am requesting at this point, in fact, I'll make a motion that we ask our staff to work with Daytona Dog Beach and bring
back before this council a possible second location in Valuchia County for a dog friendly section of the beach and I'm going to request that we focus in the area of Daytona Beach. Um I would love
for our partner with Daytona Dog Beach to uh to be able to for us to be able to provide a second area. I know that Nette and her team said they have the funding available for several, but going with
the spirit of um slow and making sure we do these things right. And I think it was Mr. Robbins who brought this up about um really a shining example of how a partnership should be with with another group. This in this case a
nonprofit called Daytona Dog Beach. But I end with that just a motion to bring something back for this council to vote on um with partnering with Daytona Dog Beach on a second location. My preference is in the city limits of Daytona Beach.
Okay. Uh you made the motion. Is there a second? I'll second it for discussion. Okay. Second by Robbins. Uh Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. One of the things when we when we voted on uh for the dog beach down in Orand
and it was a great response and I love the fact that everybody was involved and I was approached by an individual afterwards about that very issue about the extension of that and I will I'd be remiss if I didn't say my biggest concern right now is getting through the beach reourishment project where we have
millions of dollars being invested in trying to put sand back on the beach in lie of bringing on more projects for the beach. Um, so that's my only reservation at this point. So, uh, we just started that process for the pumping of the sand into Pon Inlet and the next stage would
be to truck that sand north and from what I understand what we're going to get from that dredging project will accommodate all the way up to uh, past Daytona where initially it wasn't going to, but that's that's my only reservation with that.
Councilman Robbins. Matt, would you be open to um once that reourishment is done, maybe uh sitting down and coordinating Mr. Kent and staff to uh look at a possible section maybe outside the uh the the big
tourism area, you know, because there there's going to be some other issues there. Um and maybe when that reinourishment uh is complete, we can uh do another pilot for that area or uh work in conjunction with him and and uh maybe extend it
further north, you know, where it touches Daytona where where, you know, I want to support you guys wherever we can. And I was hoping, Mr. Kent, you were going to say some bring some horses back for the north end of town. I' I'd really enjoy that. But uh I'll I'll support you guys uh however you want to
do it. Can I respect that? Yeah. And I'm absolutely inclined to do that once we get the project at least close to being completed before we start doing that.
Okay. Uh Councilman Johansson. Yes, sir. Um I'm I'm not seeing the nexus between a dog at the beach and the reourishment, but I'm willing to wait. Uh, however, let's get the show on the road contingent upon the completion. So, the day it's complete, we can do this. The
other thing I'd like staff to to look at is please convince me why we need uh a animal control person on the beach. Um, uh, there might be some stats that that provide that. There might be a very good reason, but I
love having dogs on the beach. I don't like money being part of it. uh the fact that Nette is is doing everything after the capital improvements, the the the garbage cans and the and the doggy bags and what whatnot. As long as that keeps
happening, I'm I'm very supportive of this. If I have to throw another $100,000 at a quarter mile of beach, um we just said no to $48,000 for parking. I don't want to spend 100,000
uh for just another convenience. Um but I think we can do it without it. So uh there there's my thoughts. Yeah, I agree. I I think we can easily decouple this from beach nourishment just because it takes it takes a while to do it. I I
would like I would can I Yeah, the beach reourishment is a year plus project. So yeah, they have to be decoupled. And as far as coordinating anything, that has to be done here. Otherwise, you're in a
sunshine violation. So yeah. Um we uh if you want to, you know, we'll look if as directed, whatever you guys decide. And uh and of course down the road after we're done with the uh the uh beach project, there could be further
discussion. Uh but but like I say, that's that's a year out. Okay. Then I'm then I'm okay with that. Okay. Let me uh let me say what I was going to suggest. Um, and then Suzanne, if you would push back on on this or or Tori, I
was just going to say I I would like to see staff um come back and tell us Daytona Beach to Daytona Beach Shores, wherever wherever the best place places are that they like they did before, we we declined one in Orman by the Sea and
and took the current location and um everything else should probably stay the same. um turtle season and and all that the the leash six foot leash. Um but I do agree with Jake Johansson that I've
I've not understood why we need to have a paid animal control person there, but all that information can come back and in timing. Um does that fit with what you're trying Okay. Uh Deputy County Manager Suzanne
Conchin. Thank you, Mr. Mr. Chair, I did just want to touch on the animal control officer. Okay, was the reason I asked to speak and as council may remember, we did have uh a full-time officer during uh the pilot period. Uh we recommended
going down to a half-time presence primarily focused on the heavier periods of weekends and holidays. that matches what we have done for many years at the dog beaches at each of our inlet parks.
We have one at Lighthouse Point and one at Simra Dunes. And it it is my opinion and I can I can get some of our other staff experts to chime in. If we don't have some presence for enforcement on the beach, then people's behaviors will
adapt to the fact that they know there is no enforcement. our lifeguards have no ability to enforce any longer and the sheriff's office is not going to enforce the county ordinances in any meaningful way uh in terms of leashes etc. It's it's really not their role to do that.
So I I would um urge you for patients let us try to match uh you know that plus or minus 20 hours a week a little less is what it'll equal out to. Um, we're going to try to rotate the hours so we're not
predictable and it's just a means of trying to keep people's behavior excellent the way it has been. Um, we're happy to look for additional opportunities for a second dog beach and I'll work with our team on what we would suggest options would be. I guess my one
question to council on that is we did have the city of Orman Beach step up early in the discussion of locating the beach that we have now. Is there a desire by council for us to work with the adjoining municipalities or not?
I I can I respond? I I think it has to be. Um Orman did play a vital role in that and they were very receptive. It involves their town, a lot of their their citizens that that go to that beach. Um most people that on the east side that go to the beach go to the
beach closest to them. Um now we have more people going to Orman because of the dog beach that that don't live there. So absolutely I think it needs to involve whatever area even though it's not you know it's our beach to to operate. I think it it needs to involve them. Councilman Kent. Yeah. Thank you.
And I I think that absolutely I'm I think that a healthy conversation with whatever city is is chosen needs to needs to take place. Um they certainly should have a a place at the table for their comments and andor suggestions.
That being said, I am also very appreciative of of the comments I've heard today about this and Mr. Johansson and and Chairman Brower, I I tend to agree with you about, you know, I don't want to spend money on another um person for this. In fact, I feel like the
person we have in Orand could split even that part-time because Daytona is so close, that location, they could they could uh bounce between both of those and and we could get a two for one on this deal. I I really think so. I'm also appreciative to hear Mr. Reinhardt back
off of the uncoupling of the beach renourishment and and the timing of this. I also just want to say that I I feel like the reason we did an 18-month pilot was to kind of wash some things out. We did that and it has been wildly successful. I I don't know that we have
to have another pilot in another location. I think we um the proof as I say in Old England the proof is in the pudding and it has been successful and I think that this second location would also be successful. We have an active
partner uh with Daytona Dog Beach who says that they will man it as far as uh patrolling the area. They will provide the bags um uh etc that are needed there. And I do think that we could have the the same um animal control
person go to both of them because of the proximity of where they are with each other. I would think that it would be on the uh northern end of Daytona probably uh would would be a good location, but let's get others involved. And Mr. Reinhardt, it's your district. So, I'm
real anxious to for you to have uh you know, some comments in this and when this thing is as successful as the first one, for you to be able to beat your chest on it and u and have it in your backyard as well. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. Thanks, Chair and and Council. Uh you know, I'd made a suggestion that
pilot, you know, what what what my fear is is the closer we get to population uh or even those tourist areas, our cases may go up. So, I would definitely um see about splitting the uh the use or at least have some presence down there
so we don't take something good and and and then lose it. Um but also too about uh further expansion. Uh we also have to be cognizant um of of some of the other sensitive areas especially down in the shores. uh and also respect to even
though we can do something uh but also respect to uh the residents down there and and kind of their needs and and and whatnot, but um sometimes you can't eat an elephant in one day and and I think if we can systematically do this and say, "Hey, boom, boom, boom, and just go
down the line," I think it'll be a success. So, okay. Thank you. And to to Troy and and Suzanne, I would just uh you would probably do this anyway, but I know Nanette has a list of dog friendly
hotels. Hotels that actually market to people with dogs and say your your dog is is welcome to come here. So they might have some suggestions and to and that would lessen the effect that uh Councilman Robbins just brought up it
being uh something that just affects the the locals. It still would, but um I think that's worth a conversation too to because there's a lot of motel that are are marketing for pet owners. Uh
Councilman Santiago. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not opposed to uh Second Location. Um it's it's obviously popular where it's at now, too. Um my uh only thoughts are it's as for me, we have to
weigh location, location, location, because you know, there's still people on the opposite side of this, right? We had a lot of opposition to it that we pushed through. So, we got to be sensitive to their concerns and it's all about the location. So, open to it. Agreed. And if we could find the right
one then maybe and I agree on the money and I think to answer the question on the uh the code enforcement of the animal control I think that a lot of that was by our drive and our concerns. So we kind of pushed it to hey we want to monitor this to make sure it works and that's why that cost was there. So
um thank thank you. Okay. So, if if we uh I'll call for a quick vote and we're kind of giving staff an open-end thing. Find us locations, make s suggestions. Uh Suzanne, your
um uh your direction on why there's an animal control there. Your comment is um is well taken. Um, and it would probably help us with the public that that is concerned because you're right, there
was a lot of Well, there was opposition. So, um, all in favor of asking staff to pursue this and bring us back more information, please say I. I. Any opposed? Thank you, Danny, for the second.
Is that you? Okay. Uh, Vice Chair Reinhardt. Thank you, Chair. Um, couple things I just uh I won't take long. One of the items that was going to be a little lengthy, I I kind of got my answer already with respect uh to the Highlands community up
there. Chair, I know you have been up that way as well. Um, and I drove through that area um even just recently and the watermarks are still in the houses. So, and those houses are built up. Well, many of them
are built up, but I did get a chance to see that that area where, and I know it's not a county of Valuchia, it's city of Daytona, but that area where the visual drop off from the high school property of Mainland High School to the
Highlands area is significant even with the houses being raised. Um the school board from my understanding has already uh agreed to the fact that that retention failed and they saw a need to expand it but my understanding is their
expansion of such is deeper not wider because they don't have the property for wider and yet deeper Mr. Mr. Bartley, you can agree or disagree. I think you told me that doesn't that's not creating more volume. So that that is a concern where the that would only do a band-aid
anyways on the project. Um what needs to happen is I guess a a canal system of which um which is costly and that's where I recommended the city of Daytona to apply uh for the transform 386 and
hopefully have the match money to where they can score better. So, do you know if the city has in fact put I sat down and talked with the city. I actually made an appointment and talked with the the um vice uh or the um deputy city manager and pretty much said that there
wasn't they didn't have the money for the match. So, my understanding is no, they have not applied. So, I don't know what else we can do to I think the first thing you have to do is come up with it should be studied and then decide what the solution would would in fact be. you
know. Yeah. Because what we're saying is only hypothetical. We don't know if that's the answer. Exactly. I mean that's uh you know that particular area has some unique uh features to it. It does. It does. I just I don't want to see them fail again. So I think the
thing for them to be looking at first is well what would the solution be? And then then we could attack maybe what you know go after construction dollars, grant money, what have you. if it if they don't get it done in time to use the 386 money. Could could somebody
reach out to them to see where they are with that or I can again I don't care. So I will again well we're in contact with them too. I mean we'll see what their lists of projects and things are. I mean but I don't know if they're planning on studying that yet or not. So
I don't know. Yeah, I didn't ask that question. We have a list of what their basins uh I know that they are studying and we can take a look if that's in cuz you also have some near there you've got other issues you know down all the way down
the Nova Canal. No. Yeah. Okay. I'm not sure what the direction would be. So I I'd be interested to hear what my colleagues have obviously jumped in before I go. All right. Thank you, Councilman Robbins. George, what kind of
uh direction you need from us to to look at this? I I received a couple calls on it as well. a good resident out there too that's been there for God 30 40 years was Jack Driscoll and and uh I actually met with a couple other ones out that away and and there there's some issues there and uh what I'd hate to do
is throw uh we got to somehow get the school board um at the table in my opinion uh before they go ahead and spend money that that can be spent somehow or if we can get a uh a uh some sort of study
done for that area or uh any any future construction that they have for that infrastructure for that area before they go ahead and spend that money. Um maybe it could be used for this. How do you what what we'll do I don't need uh I'll have Ben uh take a look and go over the
various uh submitted proposals for uh the studies that'll tell us if they're in that basin or not. And then if they're not, we'll go find out what their what their plan is. That's been a problem. I I know even years ago when I served in that city, it it uh it was an
issue. But also too, thinking thinking forward, um if the school uh board does decide to go ahead with with the project, I know they're exempt by state law for from certain standards, our
standards. If they do go that direction, could we maybe get with them to um make sure if there was a failure in there, can they possibly uh or we work together to adopt our standards? Yeah, we'll talk to them about what their standards are. They're
they're using, I'm sure, an engineer. So, there's an engineering standard. It may not be exactly what ours is. I we would have to find out, but but they are a licensed engineer. So they whatever they're doing, they there there's going to be uh engineering behind it, a
license behind it. Um so I'm not so sure that they're out of our so-called standard that that and and then of course you're also in the city. So yeah, but they yeah, we we'll find out what they're what they're up to. Okay. Thanks. Just I'll just add to that
because I I was uh in a meeting at Mainland Senior High School with Jack Driscoll, all all of his neighbors and the the school board and an engineer that they hired. And while they uh they did say that you're correct that it
failed, they didn't take responsibility for it. In fact, they kind of passed it to Daytona that Daytona was supposed to have an outlet there and they didn't run it. and they went to Daytona. Daytona was not going to still not going to um
install uh an outlet an overflow. Um so the plan that they presented to the neighbors that they were all um very excited about at the time, I don't I don't know if it's changed, but they had money set aside. Um the engineer had
come up with a plan that the um the fairly large retention pond was just too close to the property line. It was couple feet. Um, so they were going to fill all that in and then make that the
an athletic field and dig a larger retention pond in the existing athletic field that would be 3, four, 500 ft away from any property line. Um, I don't at that time there wasn't a discussion
about deeper instead of wider. They seem it seemed like a good plan and everybody was was happy with it, but it sounds like nothing started. Okay. So, I would say if we're going to contact somebody, it's probably the school board. Got it.
For we'll talk to the school and we'll talk to the city, make sure it's okay. Uh, Councilman Johansson. Yeah. One of the things that that uh Ben's helping um Mayor Miller and I do
on the subcommittee is is getting all these reports together and all these studies together. Uh one of the things that Ben, I know you're back there that we omitted is bringing the school board into the conversation. So add them to the list. But um uh hopefully this will
be something that that we don't have to wonder about here in the near future and we'll have all that information in one repository um um and and hopefully be able to to come up with with solutions that that we
can all live with. So, I'm I'm hoping to get there uh in the long run, but in the short term, you know, I I think we all probably need to carry the water and figure it out. The round table is coming up in the next few days. That might be a good opportunity to tackle uh uh uh
Stacy Ku and and the public works director and see what you can get from them above and beyond what Van and George will be doing. That's all. Okay. Still a couple more things. Mr. Chair, the some good things. Um, I
noticed everybody on the council got this and I I I wanted to make sure it was mentioned. I thought it was pretty good that a while back we had um approved for um leveraging Napa's uh auto parts industry to do all of our
auto parts and stuff for our fleet. Um they were recently as that was one of the contributing factors. um they were just recognized um our fleet management uh division recognized a national leader in public sector efficiency and that was
one of the contributing factors. So um great great job by Robert Gilmore and his crew. Uh fleet management maintained a 97.44% vehicle availability rate. Um which was huge. I always thought it was good back when we I I did compliance and
stuff uh for a while for corrections, but I thought it was great that we were getting vehicles back within a couple days, but my understanding is they're doing turnarounds in the next day. So, that's huge. You can't even get that as a as a citizen with your local dealer. So, great job to Robert and his crew.
Um it wouldn't be a meeting without me without mentioning corrections. So, I took the opportunity yesterday. I was going to share the pictures with everybody. Um we have uh some of the mangroves and whatnot that we're growing out there in the greenhouse that we do have um are
really taking off. Uh those will be of course we can utilize those. We're replanting them into our uh Indian River Lagoon uh which will help uh with that area quite a bit and they've already started planting others for uh growth because it takes about 2 to three years
to grow those to where we can replant them. So, uh, great job out there. We actually also started the barbering program, um, that's now underway, the four chairs that were donated by Daytona State. Um, they have a a teacher, uh, who was actually, uh, a barber that's
going to, uh, teach about eight inmates at a time. Is that where you got your last haircut? That's where I'm getting mine. Um, so he's doing a great job. And that will coincide also with the virtual welding. Um, they're going to start a female inmate cosmetology program, a sewing program where we'll be able to
manufacture our own uh inmate jumpsuits and and the bedding and stuff that we have to purchase at now. So, we can actually save a lot of money, taxpayer money, by uh repairing those mattresses and manufacturing those mattresses and whatnot because you
figure 1,400 inmates. Just don't take the labels off. Yeah, it doesn't take labels off. Good, good point. Uh, some more good news. Um, Blush County Fire and Rescue since our last meeting, uh, did their, uh, fire rescue annual award ceremony.
Um, George and I attended. That was awesome. Um, great job by our fire service. I don't think our chief is here anymore, but uh, it was nice to see. I was shocked at seeing some of the ones, uh, make lieutenant in six, seven years. That's incredible. So, there some go-getters. And then to see the
retirements. I mean, it's a mixed emotion there. Some great great people. I hope they enjoy their their lives after the fire services. Um, Veterans Day Memorial, that was a great event there at the uh the bridge. Um, I know that project's what 17 years
in the making. So, uh, it's a beautiful, beautiful area. Um, I love the comment by my colleague when we were there. Somebody asked the question, does the eternal flame continue to burn and as long as we pay the bill?
So uh also um it is National Corrections Officers Week and National Correctional Medical Providers Week, the nurses week. So uh and lastly on that law enforcement
appreciation day, uh I'll be doing a proclamation at the Living Faith World Ministries. They do it every year and this will be the first year they're going to honor corrections. Go figure. So that's awesome. Um, last thing I want to talk about and and it's just for discussion just if if
staff would entertain it. I had a couple people and the last one kind of resonated with me, but I've had a couple people in the past bring up uh we've all seen the prices with uh eggs and how they skyrocketed. You see all the memes that are on social media
where they're dealing money as if it was eggs and it's true. Um, there was the last person reached out to me. They own in in unincorporated Valuchia County and their property is just a little over a quarter
acre and they wanted to do the eggs but our our chickens and abide by all the standards that we have. They have to go to the class. They have to only have so many. Everybody knows that. But uh the minimum size acreage is a third acre
currently. So I didn't know if there was uh any appetite to change to allow it for a quarter acre for a quarter acre and unincorporated county still maintaining the same requirements that they did. Okay. But it was so it was a lengthy
uh I sat through it probably twohour long discussion uh about uh backyard chickens probably before the egg prices went up. Yeah, it was it was previous council probably two maybe even two
councils ago. So, it has been and that's why I think the the amount of chickens that are allowed came out of and and I don't I don't want to change the amount. So, Matt Matt, real quick, when I I was a couple years back when I I bought a
boat uh over in Crystal River, Clay, what what county is that? Let's test your knowledge. Crystal River is Levy. Levy. Levy. Levy. So, in this gentleman's backyard, and it was in a residential area,
uh, I'd say kind of like comparable to Pon Inlet, and I said, "Are those chickens in your backyard?" And they were on a I'd say a quarter acre or maybe smaller on a canal and they were allowed to have the pen. So, uh, I I see
what you're saying, you know, but they I could let me try to research their rules or help staff out. Yeah, they they the they right now the chickens must be contained in a coupe. Uh the coupe meets accessory uh structure setbacks. Um the maximum height of the coupe is 8 ft. The maximum size of the
coupe is 150 square ft. Sounds like the jail. The coupe it is. It's a cell. The coupe is greater if the coupe is greater than 120 ft, a building permit must be attained. Uh the coupe must be screened from view of adjacent property owners.
Uh what was the property size? They currently are sitting on a quarter acre and the the ordinance requires a third acre. That's right. It's um 72-307.
Yes, sir. It It's a conditional use requirement for residential use. So if res and residential use only if they're looking to create a commercial Okay. if they're just using it for residential, if y'all feel like you want to change those standards, we can bring them back for you to review them and update them.
That's all I want. Just so we so we can have and and in all fairness, um I think uh Councilman Johansson brought it best. If you're going to do an ordinance change like that, we need to have the public involved and have their input as well. Um all I want to do is is entertain the idea of a discussion. Um
that's all. Okay. And keeping the same. The only thing that would change is the size. We can bring it back for if so directed. Was there uh Danny, were you done with that? I in the in the
72-307. This is a serious question. Is there any requirement on It's not the chickens, the hens that are a problem. Their neighbors probably never knew they were there. It's the roosters. Right. So if you just say no roosters and it does
it does say no roosters we prohibit roosters. Okay. So that's already there. Just want the and I think it's four hens. I'm not. It is Clay. Is it four hens or five? Yeah. Just bring it back so we can talk about it later. Thank you. Okay. Let's vote.
I think we're all in agreement. You wanted you wanted to give that to to staff? Yes. Staff to come back with Anybody opposed to that? Just cluck up. Just Okay. Go ahead. That's all I had. Thank you, Chair.
Uh, Councilman Robbins. Thank you, uh, Chair. Uh, we were hitting on the beach topic a little while ago and, um, started processing and dissecting this issue. Uh, I know a lot of it other than
district 3 is not in my district, but you know, when the main street folks come in and some of the merchants, it it gets your wheels turning because we all know, I don't have to rehash it all, that there's other contributing factors to why we're at today. So, I'm trying to
figure out what we can control and what we can't control. We know that the state plays a big part in this. We know that we need stakeholders uh as well if we uh even want to entertain opening up a section of the beach. Uh but but what I was most concerned about too is the u uh economy
behind it and and in possibly looking at something or or other avenues to stimulate those businesses. And um what I'm what I'm going to bring up next uh is kind of been a vision of mine. I know we can do it here. I know
this is the council that could do it if there if if there is one. Um Chrissa down south. I brought this up about 3 four years ago about the Tortuga Music Festival. Uh there isn't a spot really down in my district. Um Chris, if
you can go to click on Rock the Ocean. Actually, you can see right there just to give you a visual uh of kind of uh what what they do uh down in in South Florida. I know we have several concerts throughout the
year, but nothing like this. And and to help revitalize things, they have a lot of partners here uh in terms of um environmental protection with all of our marine uh uh sea turtles, mammals,
reefs, sharks, marine habitats. They do and donate so much money from these concerts and a lot of the people uh volunteer and go to Can you uh keep going down? Then you'll see a big sponsor list. Uh keep going. Uh where is
it? Keep going down. Is that it? Maybe it was on the first page. Uh if you could go back. Yeah, there you go. Uh there you go. Right. Right there. Uh well, you'll see uh there's a lot of big names
um that would that would uh that would help out. You can obviously become a sponsor, but I have a possible location, Matt. Um and Troy, it would probably need y'all's blessing. Um and and and I'm all open, but I want to do something
that's within our control or at least have staff. I know the hotel years and and and the bed tax and the businesses, but what I'm seeing is is is kind of that area is uh ever since MTV left uh and and a couple other things, it's like
it's not chicken and it's not fish, but what can we do to revitalize that, capture the current, um trends, you know, and get these people some some businesses other than just the the seasonal uh NASCAR or uh biker events.
you know that that that's it. But um Chris, I I put a map up. So you got the band shell and then you have this lot down here. You have hotels here. Usually at these events I've seen I I've been down the one in South Florida several times. Um they'll have a a north and a
south stage. Uh, and then two, you know, time it where we're we're not going to have those high tides or or whatever and kind of um block that block that off. Danny, that's where the dogs are going. What are we going to do about this? Well, that's something I have to figure out.
But is what do you want? What are you looking for? Council, would you guys be open to um turning staff loose? let them get with the uh their people and and the hotel years to see if this is even possible. Right. I don't I look the whole coastline. I
can't find another spot, but I know it would help businesses out. Uh anything like this I think would help businesses out there around the Oceanwalk, Main Street. Uh and these are Friday, Saturday, Sunday events, but I I'd like to talk about it. Um question for you.
Sure. Would it be more than 9,000 participants? Because if so, I mean, if not, then right across the street, we've got the Ocean Center. Yeah. That holds that holds 9,000. Now, if we're saying it's going to be, you know, 15,000 a day, that's tickling my buying bone a
little bit and as long as there's no one going to come forward with let's give everybody free parking. My know how I feel about that. My thing is when people came to Daytona Beach in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, they came for the beach and to be outside. you know, they
can go out to the track or they can go in other stadiums down to Amway and and if we want to, if this beach is what we say it is, let's put our money where our mouth is, let's give them what they're asking for, but try I'm not saying we don't have to do this, but let's see what we
can come up with here where maybe something like this may may work. I don't care how many people it I I hope we have overflow uh if we can get an event like this, but um to at least explore it to see if it's even even possible. I mean, it's worth a
discussion on my own. The dirt's there. We just have to put it to work. Um Suzanne, I'm hoping that when when your turn comes up, you're going to mention what you did this weekend, but I I was going to say what I think what Troy just said. I think I think we've already started this and it's the money
we're investing at the Ocean Center. Um we should the that's one block um north of Main Street. So we've got the Ocean Center, the Peabody and the Band Shell where you could have a weekend event
with smaller concerts outside. Um the what is it? The Red Hot Chili Peppers at the Ocean Center for the two people that'll go to see them. and and uh yeah, I'm making friends now. Um
so anyway, I'll just end with that. Uh you know, Councilman Santiago, I I I think I think there's a uniqueness to what Danny was saying as far as the beach, what we what we used to do. But I think if we throw this to staff to get creative, I think you could do the best of both
worlds. You know, I Why couldn't you do a a three-day and one of those days is inside the Ocean Center, right? So, you can get really creative and you can have the best of both worlds, right? Yeah. Two beach days and then inside you have an inside concert, too. So, um I think I
think we I'm open to getting more information and supporting it. And and I appreciate that, David, but but the thing is we got to try something new. And if if if if we have to try something new and if we want to if we're sincere and genuine about turning around that
main street area, we have to try something new that the ski ball machines and the and the uh water guns and the slingshot that's 40 50 years outdated uh and and uh and whatnot. But whatever you guys want to do is fine. I'm just
throwing it out there. Suzanne, chairman, members of council, uh really two points. Uh one is is just going to be a realistic comment. The second is going to be what I hope is a good solution and opportunity for us. Uh the
first uh visual Danny put up of the Tortuga Music Festival. Uh the first thing you'll notice if you go to the picture, thank you. That is an engineered beach. The mean high tide line. Oh, no. Please go back to the
picture of the beach. Thank you. The mean high tide line. I don't know if uh you know uh I can draw. I used to be able to draw on this thing. I can't draw anymore. But um is down to the left of Yes, thank you. where that cursor is. That's the problem. We do not have an
engineered beach in front of the band shell. on our width is probably wide enough at our lowest point of low tide, but it's only probably that width for about 4 hours in a way that would be safe to have the large stages and setup that they have. Now, I could be wrong.
We'll take a look at it, but that's been the limiting factor uh for us. Having said that, here's what I think is the exciting answer, you know, to the ideas. One of the things that we have done uh at the Ocean Center is done a
procurement to bring in a music promoter to help us really ramp up our game at the Ocean Center. We uh we went out for furl procurement. The uh assessment, the staff uh team reviewed the proposals and
the winning proposal uh will be coming back to you for consideration. It was Danny Whmer Productions. If you're familiar with that name, they are putting on Rockville next week, this weekend. So, they put on some of the biggest music festivals in the country,
including they won uh at Polestar for the festival of the year, which was in Louisville, Kentucky last September called Bourbon and Beyond. We know we can team up if Danny Whmer uh is approved by council. We'll work with them on what ideas we can come up with
with their guidance because uh this music festival uh was not put on by the city or the county. There are specialty musical promoters who put these festivals on. Danny Wmer Productions, one of the premier of those production companies uh to do it in the
country. So I'm eager to sit down and roll up our sleeves with them to see what we can do. both, you know, their number one target is going to be to fill our arena where we can with musical acts that will fit our capacity in the arena. And then secondly, we'll begin to talk with them about festival opportunities
beachside. We do have a great facility at the band shell. Of course, we have a fantastic facility. I think two at the ocean center, the exhibit hall and the arena could both act. You know, music festival is typically famous for having multiple uh stages. So let us work with
the professionals. We hope to have them if you approve their contract on board here shortly. And whatever the solutions are, whether it's the beach in this area, whether it's a combination of what I've mentioned, uh I'd like to get their guidance and input and we'll bring back
what uh solutions we do think would be best for us. Well said. Perfect. Yep. Uh Jake Johansson though. Yes, sir. Thanks. Um, I I like that idea. I do love um Booking the Ocean
Center. I'm glad I'm glad we have a promoter coming on board. And And I do believe it's important to to keep the beach vibrant as well. And it sounds like uh if we hire this this promoter
that there could be some way where we can have the ocean center utilized and somehow incorporate the the beach because I I know damn well you can't set up a a two-stage presence on a beach where you set up you have the concert
and you tear it down in four hours before the water comes. But there could be some things that where you can go from the ocean center to the band shell to the beach to do something on the beach to go back besides track sand all
over our brand new ocean center. But yeah, something like that where we can we can we can include it and and get that vibrant beach thing going again. So, I appreciate it. It's good. And you you can't sell beer on the beach, but you can sell it at the ocean
center and it's very profitable. Okay. Um thanks uh thanks guys. Uh real quick too, uh got a couple more things. I'm going to call on Ben here in just a second. Um city of New Simra Beach adopted an ordinance had to
do with their flood plane and flood plane management. Uh something that caught my eye is they they added capacity and I'm going to be calling upon Ben to explain a little bit more. I know that we did uh give direction to ENRAC uh to look at it amongst a laundry
list of other things. And uh what I'll be asking uh the council is I think this may be something we can discuss at our level. Uh it seems to make sense to me u but I'll let uh let Ben explain the more uh professional and technical end of
Yes, Ben Barlo, Luc County Public Works Director. Um, so, you know, talking about some of the improvements that we can make to our code as far as looking at uh protection from flooding from future development is impacts to the flood
plane. One of the most important things you can do in terms of um you know ensuring that we have as maximize our protection from future storm events is to make sure that we're not filling in the flood plane because those are the you know more than half of the Valuchia
County is in the 100red-year flood plane. The so that's that area where if you get 11 and a half inches of rain in 24 hours you're going to flood. So, New Simra has implemented um as part of their flood plane protection
um ordinances um uh a stronger rule than what's required by the federal government, which is whenever you add uh fill material to the flood plane, you're required according to the National Flood Insurance Program and and FEMA that you have to basically excavate out a
comparable amount of fill material so that you're not increasing the amount of fill in in the flood plane. You're not taking up space that water will go during that flooding. And the reason you do that is it protects people that are already in the flood plane, but it protects people on the periphery of the
flood plane to make sure that you're not expanding the flood plane. And so what New Simra has done is they've looked at that and they've added uh a 50% factor of safety, so to speak. So instead of requiring one one yard of material added, one yard removed, they're saying
if you add one yard, one cubic yard of material, you got to remove one and a half cubic yards. So it's basically a factor of safety of 50% that says look, you know, it allows for any possible um issues with the calculations or anything
like that. And and so that's something that they've implemented at the city level. I know that's something that we've asked ENRACH to look at as well um to see if that's something that a we want to include in our chapter 72 land development code or possibly as part of
the environmental minimum standards which would apply countywide to all the cities. and and and thank you, Ben. And uh and the only reason, council, that I'll I'll make the motion uh for for our team to to grab this is that ENRAC is still bogged down on things from two to
three years ago uh with tree ordinances and a couple other things. So, pardon me for interrupting. It's on the agenda for tomorrow for the discussion really with ENRAC. Well, because that was tied into the discussion that y'all gave us with the seven strategies. So,
we've accelerated any discussion on the flood plane with the uh with ENRACK. So, they have it on the agenda for tomorrow. So, we'll know we'll know an actual answer. Yeah, we'll have a recommendation from them shortly. Okay. When can we uh expect that back? In a
couple weeks. Uh we'll see what their recommendations are. Based on that, we'll know whether or not we can go straight to uh drafting uh ordinance changes and amendments and then processing it. that would have to go I if it affects chapter 72 it would have
to go to the PLDRC if they select chapter 50 that's a little bit process okay so we'll know a little bit more definitely within 30 to 60 days thank you and and and council that was something uh I just figured if if there was any chance um you know to save them
some time but it looks like uh it looks like they're on it but uh just to save some time and and get the best bang for our buck Jakeham Council, Councilman Johan. Yes, sir. Uh, Clay, real quick, can we can we throw it in chapter 72 in the short term, looking
at chapter 50 in the long term, just to put a put a statement out there? Thank you. Sounds good. You guys are doing a good job. And council, I I've talked to uh Mr. Burbaugh. There's a couple pieces of property. They're pretty strategic from what I can see, and I think staff
is already on it. Um there's uh just shy of a thousand acres that that came for sale off of Mattown Road. Uh great uh candidate I think for our our rural um a lands or farmlands uh program and it has
direct access to uh I believe Deep Creek and and a part of the St. John's uh river. So, uh, and also too in the Tamoka Farms Village where where I live, uh, there's a piece of property that for the last, uh, 30 years, it's kind of
been controversial and and, um, you know, we're, uh, looking to to reach out to the owner of that as well to, see if they're they're willing. I know that this council has uh expressed some interest in in expanding uh equestrian uh and really in the tooka farmers
village along Spruce Creek. That's what this was for for years and years and years uh uh through there. And there's an old covered bridge. There's a lot of history through there. So I've been working on trying to capture that or at least get get uh some of the stakeholders and in uh uh at the table.
So uh other than that uh that's it. Appreciate it. Miss Santiago, thank you. I'll be quick. Okay. Uh, can you pull up the picture for me? I want to kind of jump on the bandwagon of the school issue. Oh, Ben, did Ben leave? Oh, there he is right
there. Okay. Um, this is Ostein Elementary. Um, similar kind of some of the points that were discussed earlier. That's Doyle Road there that goes across County Road, right, Ben? Doyle Road. So that pond there, I guess it looks like a
L or of a boot, um, is the pond that the school built when they rebuilt Oene Elementary. I mean, Oene Elementary used to flood and they built it back in the same piece of property, but that's it's it's here. So, um, and the county, uh,
school board, uh, designed a pond, and I know they have their they're exempt from the rules. I don't know if it was built to standards or not, but Ben, I think you and I met out there after the storms because that impeded Doyle Road, correct? During the weather. Yes, sir. And and to be clear, the school board
doesn't have to get any permits from the local jurisdiction. So, they do have to pull storm water permits from the water management district when But our storm water standards are slightly more stringent in some areas. what we require
and what we've observed in not just this location. Uh there was also the issue with this pond. I think it's um freedom over on Blue Lake, the the one that let loose with the water into Victoria Hills
and then went across Blue Lake. And then I do know of of an instance I forget the name of the school off the top of my head in in Orman that I've talked to the city engineer and and the the work the issue we're see we saw during some of these storms was that some of these um
ponds they basically got full and and overtopped or or or failed and um caused some issues. And for instance, our requirements, you know, you have to treat or you have to provide a certain
amount of volume. We actually require additional freeboard, which is another factor of safety where you add volume to the pond for instances where maybe the pond didn't get a chance to recover for the next storm and things like that. So, so that being said, I'd like I'd like to
ask for two things. one, um I'd like to put it on as consideration for our legislative agenda for next year to take away that exemption specifically to any infrastructure that could impact um neighboring areas, c county roads,
things like that. Um is that a motion? Yeah, I move that, you know, for our legislative agenda for 2026 to add to um removing the exemption lobby for it of school boards from not having to attain local level
storm water storm water approvals. I actually wrote that down in my book. So second absolutely same time. I getting any love for that. Absolutely. You got a second? Yes, absolutely. Got a second. I don't see any questions on it.
And then I have something else after. All in favor of that. Say I. I. Okay. Go on. So this one, this particular site is causing a lot of heartburn for me and I'm sure the others for our my colleagues, but um we always take the blame for it, right? It's it's it becomes the county as as I talked in our
last meeting, the c everything falls on the county shoulders as our fault for all the development and all the problems out there. And this was not of our doing. And I I'd like to if there's consensus, George, through you and this in in this council to also include this
as a conversation for Ben and his team to figure out how do we find a way to fix this site. Um, and if it requires them looking for 386 or for them looking for state funding to improve this because that's a major road um, and it's it's a major headache for me. So, is
there consensus to let staff run with that? Absolutely. Thank you. Um, crazy design. Yeah, it's right up on the road too there. So, I mean, and I don't know which way the water flows. I went over there, I heard two different things because there's a subdivision across the street that the city of Deltona um had
approved years ago. And you know, there that the topic is it it's because of the subdivision. It's not because of the subdivision. Which way does the water flow? I don't know which way it flows. Anyway, it's frustrating. Um, the other thing I have is if I can get consensation for John Tucker, the former
sheriff, and then I think the one of the last council meetings, um, I had recommended from going from a road designation name change to going to the sign similar to the legislature. I'd like to, uh, propose that we have staff bring to us within the next two meetings
a design concept of what that sign would look like. Uh, we would have a standard and that we could apply going forward. And I'd like to consider um having staff to move to the next step with Mr. John Tucker, former deput former sheriff to
consider the segment between um Tamoka Farms Road between uh 92 and 44. So what that would look like is there's a sign on that end of the road where it starts the sign concept that we pick and a sign at the other end of the road basically
saying this segment dedicated by Valuchia County Council on this day as Ben Bartlett Road Ben um that one fell flat. Um are you guys okay with them bringing that because we have to approve a design.
Second. Yes. All in favor? All right. Any oppose? Yep. Thank you. I'm trying to real quick here. PACE program. The lady that brought up the PACE program issue. You know, I know we weren't fans. I've never really been a fan of the PACE program, but I was wondering
legal. Is there if you could research if there's consensus if you could research how many people might be in limbo of this when we we when we withdrew support of the program. If there's a temporary door we
can open, and I'm using that term loosely, if there's a legal temporary door that we can open that allows these people to settle their finances with the bank to allow for closing and then we can close that door. I know it's maybe
complicated, but well, if I could I you know what uh the the citizen did not say. Okay. Is that Russ Brown and Sarah Jonas had
spoken with her uh and tried to call back and left a voicemail and never got a call back because uh I I think there was a concern as number one we can't provide them legal advice.
So, if money was an issue to direct them to a legal aid clinic, but if we could just revisit what this council has done, because there's multiple players in this. That's what I mean. What we've done, if we can open up a door that allows something to be relief, you had a
state law that said uh PACE programs could operate in this county if authorized by interlocal agreement. Prior council authorized commercial PACE
programs, not residential PACE programs proceeded to operate anyway. Correct. Your tax collector has elected along with I want to say it was 40 other tax collector
around the state. It was a very large number. um to not put the uh special assessments these pace providers have asked for on the tax role. PACE program at least there's several
entities companies that are dealing with it have made the one of them has made the argument in court they don't have to get local government approval they can just operate because they had an inlocal agreement that uh one county and a city
I think it was Flaggler County city CMI had approved that's enough for them to operate statewide we're in the middle of that dispute right now it's in in front of the Florida in court. So, what I'm hearing, what this person
was concerned about is, well, I I had a I forget what she said. it was a roof or new windows or solar panels put on my house which had a value but the tax collector won't put
them on the tax role because whether it be a city or the county because some cities have allowed residential pace and they're doing it but whatever the governing jurisdiction is has not allowed them to operate. So the contractor says, "I've
provided something of value to you. I want to be paid." So um in the meantime, state law was clarified last session, last year to say made it abundantly clear, it was
consistent with our argument, you definitely had to have an interlocal agreement to operate in a jurisdiction. So now you have, I think, some individuals that you're pointing to that say, "Well, I got the benefit of the bargain. I got that windows, those
windows or the roof, uh, and I don't want to have to pay. I thought I had 30 years to pay this." I don't know of an easy fix for that. I I heard one of the comments I believe she even said is there some way the government to
um it wasn't bailout but can there be some fund to offset assistance and I'm not suggesting that Mike but uh the here's what I'm suggesting and I know everything you said there and I
don't know if we can do it but it has to do with the tax role uh placement because that's where it gives the guarantee to the lender that they're going to be able to recover their money. That's really where the the hook is for these lenders. Um I don't know if that's
a if we can enact some type of and I don't know how many people are in this boat. You said there was others. I don't know. It's true. But if a lack of a better term, a temporary door opening, would it allow people to be filed on a
tax roll and closed? So I I know it's it's just an idea. Just find some relief. I don't support the um creating a fund. Um you don't have to give me an answer now. You can say you didn't find anything later or you Yeah, I mean we can look
into I mean one I'll be honest with when I hear this story one response I would have is if I were the consumer I would be saying hey not so fast that you want me to pay you. You represented to me that I had 30 years to pay this back. give me back a payment
plan that's consistent with that. That's what I would be saying back. I I just I just want to be careful that I don't see this as a government responsibility. This was a private transaction. Now, we could allow PACE to operate by
interlocal agreement. No, I'm not interested in that. I I know I'm not being sarcastic. I'm saying you could do that and it's not an issue. But I think uh we can have a conversation with the property appraiser on that as well. And I know but I think what happened here
and kind of sort of her defense somewhat I agree with you. She should go to that but it was a government action that was taken that caused that loan to not be able to be processed completely. government. Uh just to be clear, government inaction
because we have a local you as a council did not approve that program and they proceeded but the tax collector was recording them at one point. Yeah. So the beh the behavior was a part of the normal operating procedure.
Sorry, I got to go help Don in this case. some people. No, we can take and I'm not I'm not upset with you about it at all, but yeah, we can take a look at it and see what options I do. We would need to have a conversation with a tax collector. I just want to brainstorm, see if there is something there. If
there isn't, there isn't. If there is point of order, chair, point of order, what? Yes. What's your point? Due to the time constraint, I don't know. There's still two more people to talk. I'd like to get approval to extend this and allow the Mr. Joe Hansen and the chair to be able to do
their council comments. 15 minutes, no max. That goes 3:45 to 3:45. Till 3:45. Yes, sir. I only have one more item. Um, as as I as I mentioned earlier today, if we can make it a formal um procedure
that when we have either former members of the county council or officers of a higher office of the county council and they attend our meetings that we recognize them in the beginning of our meetings. Okay, that's fine. Oh, no
objection. I guess I No, I usually try and do that. I didn't Yeah. No, I wasn't calling you out, Mr. Chair. I just want to formalize it. You know, I got no issues. I It's not easy. That's all I got. Thank you. Okay. Jake Johansson. Thank you, sir. Uh, a couple things. I
would like to thank uh Terry, Carrie, Erica, Bri, Dana, Dana, Carissa, Jenna, and anybody else in the ad admin? Kristen, right? New
Kristen. Uh, admin assistant day was on the 24th of of uh, April and uh, they do a great job for us uh, managing our our lives, our schedules and and our council meetings making sure we have motions and
seconds and votes. So, I appreciate everything everybody does. Uh, not to mention the lunches that they provide. Um, uh, Veterans Memorial. What a great great day that that is the the start for
me of what I hope will be a good Valuchia values veterans conversation. I think the next meeting we're going to have that discuss some other things that we can do for veterans. Um, uh, in the whole proclamation, I'm
trying to catch up, uh, with Mr. Reinhardt on on giving out proclamations. So, I did go to uh Sunrise Community for autism awareness. Uh this is autism awareness month. Um uh I'm going to have them show up for three
minutes at council and and I am going to uh ask each one of you uh the week prior two weeks prior to bring $25 so you all can purchase a uh handmade Christmas ornament that uh that
they make there personally because they'll be bringing them and when they show up for 3 minutes um it'll be hard to say no. So, uh, uh, I implore that you bring your money and if you don't, I'll I'll have a few bucks for you to lend. Um, couple days ago, we had the
flooding subcommittee and, uh, we met, not yet, and we met with uh, uh, a majority of the cities. There's a couple cities that that uh, haven't shown up, but uh, uh, but are otherwise represented somehow. Um, and we've
talked through a a bunch of items, a lot of which we talked about here. Uh, the key points that the the mayors and the council or the members of the subcommittee are that everything they want to do, they don't want to bring
harm to their sister cities or any other city. So, that's the start of that collaborative process. We'll keep doing that. Uh and and hopefully have, like I said, a one-stop shop for everything storm water. And I hope it'll help uh
Donna Butler in the long run as well, uh with her 386 project. She is our next speaker. And uh um we'll we'll we'll move forward with that. Uh yesterday uh I visited John Knox
Village and uh there's a lot of citizens out there that that have a lot of concerns. Fortunately or unfortunately, most of it is is private property. um which which kind of kind of brought home the conversation we had at the
subcommittee and and that's how do we hold HOAs accountable for uh for their storm water u systems and keeping them up to speed and on board with maintaining their their uh their storm
water systems. So Paulo is is given the subcommittee some ideas on how to do that and hopefully we'll get all the cities on board and and come up with a plan to make sure that that stakeholder group that has storm water
responsibilities is also playing their part in the game to keep us all from flooding. Uh I have a lot of other stuff to talk about but that's just a basic update of what's been going on the past two or three weeks. Thank you sir. Thank you. I I think everything I wanted
to talk about was uh was handled. Uh Troy, I'm glad you brought up the uh the A1A situation. I had a meeting in uh in on West Granada on Saturday, and that was the only question I got from from uh
attendees was uh they said drive down Granada and then down uh north on A1A. Um, so I'm glad that FDOT is is uh dealing with that. Um, the PACE program, we've kind of
really gone through that, but just to let everybody know, I I know that the uh uh the tax collector is also working with this uh constituent about that. And the last thing I just wanted to mention
um I I didn't want to wish I didn't have to. I thought we had dealt with it uh properly with the outburst that we had here and we probably you know a few meetings ago we probably all got
questions about it. Um, and you know that my explanation was that I I didn't hear it and people don't believe that, but it's true. I remember when it happened. I turned to Matt and said, "Did he just say what I thought he
said?" He didn't know. I don't think any of us heard it. Ex uh except for Jake. And Jake had hoped that I was going to deal with it, but I didn't hear of it. But I So we dealt with it the very next meeting. I'm trying to deal with it at every meeting now. I realize how
sensitive that is. It It was It's highly offensive. It offends me. I wasn't raised that way. Um I don't I have never heard one of you up here use that language. And so um use that word. I've heard you use other language, but not
that word. And so when it was said this morning that we all I I'm not quoting, but that we reacted like a bunch of guys at a at a barbecue that it just it just fit into our lives.
Um that's offensive as well. And I don't that's not how it was received by this council. And uh we're doing I'm doing everything I can our lawyers are to avoid that within the constraints of the
first amendment. And um it protects uh it protects language that none of us like and but that's what it's that's what it's there for. So and hopefully that's the last time we'll
have to speak about it. Um Councilman Robbins and then Jake just follow him. Thanks, Chairman. Um, Mr. County Attorney, do we do we have any leeway uh or policy that we can adopt uh where Listen, if that happens, boom, you're
out of here. We're not even uh where we're still within our uh protecting our First Amendment uh rights or or do we already have that? You do. You have a process in your ordinance. Um you really have two things to think about. If
somebody's speaking on uh during your public input at the beginning of the meeting, they're supposed to be speaking on your ordinance as something that county business, for lack of a better term, something that's uh relevant, something you could act on. If
they're here to speak on an agenda item, the chair can keep them on point for that agenda item. That's tool number one. The other tool is the disruption tool. So if somebody may be speaking on something that's relevant but is being disruptive in that manner the chair the
ordinance says chair can warn them give them one warning if they don't heed it they can be escorted out. Okay. Can we take that warning away? I mean this is stuff that we learn. You could change the ordinance but um we spent a lot of time putting this
ordinance together. I would say what you have now is been modeled on we saw what others have. Um I don't know of a legal requirement that sorry that was my watch that you have a warning first but well well I guess we'll leave that hopefully
hopefully a warning's enough with most people. I just you know we can't you never know how people are going to act. I mean this this gentleman obviously isn't firing on all cylinders. I I'll say that uh publicly. I think it's quite
obvious, but um uh you know this this stuff we learn in in in preschool um uh and the individual that that did this uh you know knows better and I'm I'm even for not having a warning. If it's uh if something that's that's said
in bad taste uh like that, go on, get on have the deputy escort him right out. I'm I'm I'm open for not even having a warning, be honest with you. Just to add to that, Jake, go ahead. So, so I thought absent the chairman not hearing
what was said, I thought the rest of it, the the interaction went well because then there was an outburst and then he did stop the outburst. So, uh, you
know, I I guess the easy way out to to to keep our First Amendment rights available, but stop it is to have somebody outburst, right? That that's what stops it. Um, but but more
important for me culturally is I I think we're all old enough here to know all the old slang term ethnic slurs for every one of us. Uh, the Italian guy, the Irish guy, uh, the Hispanic guy, uh,
the the Jewish guy, and so but but we don't use those anymore because we don't hear them. Yeah. We have to stop hearing that word. It'll go away if we stop using it. And that's that's throughout everywhere. Just stop
using it. And and until it's stopped being used by everybody, it's going to remain in in our dilight. And and every time it's used, every time you hear it on the radio, it it it's less to our ears. If some other word was used out
there, we would go, "What the heck is that?" I hear that word all the time. And and uh um it's it's it's pervasive, especially in music. So, until we get rid of it, it's going to be around and and we got to do our best here. And I
think given given our our play of how it worked out here, it it probably went the best way it it it uh it could possibly have been. And and I believe the chairman's preamble at the beginning is
is spot on. Uh you know, the only thing the only thing we can do that we didn't do that day and you can't speculate the second the chairman says you're not talking about anything on the agenda or anything that this county can what are they going to do? You go, "Oh, I'm getting to that." And then they'll talk
about something in the county. So, so, um, you you know, we're kind of kind of on defense during that 3 minutes, and you hope to heck that that person is respectful and uses his or her time at the podium uh um um in in the proper
form, but sometimes that doesn't happen. So, I appreciate everything everybody's done um to stop it and and we'll do the best we can to continue. You haven't spoken. Oh, I was just going to say to follow up with Danny's comments, um the warning is what the chairman opens up
with. So that's the way that is your warning and that's the way I accept it. And then after that, if you broke the rules, goodbye. The good thing he hasn't been back. Okay, so we are adjourned at 3:41.