i don't know what's wrong you know the world could sit I feel like I'm lost i'd rather you forgive one team nine right yep
no response here to come with I know a lot about it it's 1:00 i'm calling the April 2nd 2025 meeting of ENRAT order at this
time could you please call the role if Mr just walked in and I need your welcome okay roll call miss Lamers here miss Gow Miss Anderson Miss Brosmer here mr
burbank here mr fitz Simmons mr hobick here jameson I'm here all right mr dono here mr lights here mr mberg here miss Morsy she is on here
okay so we'll have to vote to allow her to participate when we're done here uh Mr surret here and Miss Whitick okay so we have a quorum we have a forum and if you'd like to allow Miss Morsy to participate
online we'll have to have a move second motion was made by Tom Burbank seconded by Tyler Melmo to Melberg sorry I went to Sweden too many noir TV shows um to allow Sarah Lee Morrisy to participate remotely in today's meeting all those in
favor i any opposed motion carries sarah Lee you get to be with us thank you i think Miss Anderson just joined us online as well so can we confirm that wendy are you here [Music] yes I am here okay so we'll have to vote
for her okay we'll entertain a motion uh moved by Tom Burbank seconded by John Hobck to allow Wendy Anderson to participate remotely in today's meeting all those in favor any opposed motion carries wendy you may
participate okay um we will entertain motions or comments to the minutes from the March 5th meeting am I allowed to make comments i'm not going to be as good as
Sarah Lee sorry to disappoint um I think we're missing a verb or something roll call was taken this is line nine page one roll call was taken with member John Hobck full stop appreciate that and I think the word absent might be might be what was there
so that's one um on page two I I don't know if I'm happy with the phrasing of it um and I I I re rephrased
lines 14 through 16 because I'm not sure what they say is what I thought I said which was Chair Lammer stated that dur during our early 2022 um meetings our orientation really we were advised to review chapter 72 prior
to chapter 50 because chapter 50 changes could have to would have to be approved by the municipalities and because in general we were to update ordinances and I'm belaboring that point a little because at least that's what I had always understood um so we can go back and look at the
audio if you want and just make whatever tweaks [Music] um in line 2627 I'm just wondering if we need to to clarify for the future i realize minutes have to be more um more like a closed
caption more like a closed captioning than than what was actionable but um Madera clarified that the council adopted the changes the committee recommended to the storm water ordinance and I'm just wondering if we need I that's implicit chapter 72 i guess
everyone would understand that so never mind and then our agenda we have old business none but there was there are two kind of follow-up items that appear here on the
minutes that maybe we can just kind of get a timeline on [Music] um one was uh for Miss Swank assistant this is on page 536 through 38 miss Swank assistant
county attorney agreed that the municipalities would need to include it the storm water the chapter 50 um changes in their own ordinances to enforce it that she offered to investigate the matter matter further and bring back additional information future date okay um maybe
next time and on the 6th does anyone know Tad's not with us today does anyone know the timing for the information for us to circle back to Miller Lake i know it's not the big priority at this moment but do we have an estimate of that at all
okay i have not heard from that finally um that's it hold business because we'll be discussing priorities clarin uh yes ma'am in regards to Miller Lake there is uh been attorneys retained by the ownership of the property owner or by
the property owners or Miller Lake so we believe that we are uh facing a lawsuit so at that point any kind of discussion is going to be held until that's taken care uh understood thank you very much um and that's all I have
so I'm not allowed to make motions except like this will you not have those any seconds second motion made by John Pab seconded by Jack Serret to approve the minutes with the minor changes
outlined all those in favor any opposed thank you and Miss Ga has joined us thank you yes for the record Miss Ga joined us at 106 um and if you would indulge me for a minute I want to have a little
discussion about minutes um we have a new I don't know program fancy something that um AI to to do the minutes um we're just testing it out minutes take a very long time um and so Chelsea spends you
know bunch of hours doing minutes and so the new AI program um the first time we tested it out it was much less detailed than the minutes you've been used to getting um we can do it more like a direct
transcript um and I just kind of wanted to have a little conversation here we talked about minutes once before the uh I don't want to speak for the attorney's office but the last time we talked about it they're in favor of having something less detailed um I know sometimes for us it's helpful to have it be more detailed
um and so we're we're going to try to test it out maybe both ways um but the AI version was pretty good saves a lot of time but it was more like discussion ensued motion was made here's the vote
right so um kind of want to know your thoughts as a group about how you want to continue to do the minutes that's the AI part that says discussion in student yeah it's real it's it's much more vague now we we can ask it to do like a very
literal transcription it just takes a lot more time and and either way works just want to and miss Madam Chair if you would like to direct the who's talking where that's gonna jump ahead for a second and then
recognize there i was hoping you would recognize me not as chair um I think the lawyers have to weigh in on on what I would say the two things that are most interesting it or most important to me when I go back to
minutes are the actionable the thinking and the actionable there's a lot that we have to write in minutes that it takes time for us to get to the pith of something and yet we write that into the minutes so I'd love to hear
that Jessica Ga said that that the lizards have to be purple because that's what the federal laws dictate and Mr hobck said "But we don't have purple lizards in Florida." So this is a a mode point and then what did we vote on and
what's that the next step to that and I don't even know if that's possible or to be bolded or or and I do appreciate and I thank Chelsea for doing all the minutes i realize it's a herculean task and I'm also very glad to hear that you're
piloting AI for it that that seems like a good use of AI but I I just wonder if they could be more useful to us if it were easy more easy to find the thinking that let us land on a decision that's my two cents Mr serret
yeah I I think less is more and uh I think that's fine the discussion ensued and uh we we go that route we concentrate on the action items and uh and if there's relevant background that needs to be plugged in there hopefully that will happen but I I think the
minutes are are too much and we've got to wade through them each time and I kind of lose track as I do that so my opinion is that u that we're we're on the right track by reducing the amount of words mr hobick followed by Mr burbank
followed by Mr malber i think I'm with Jack on less is is good um the only thing I would suggest though if you feel like your point that you're trying to make or what have you you just need to state for the record so that it does
make the minutes and I think that helps clarify what we really want or intend to put into the minutes thank you John tom Tyler then Donna thank you uh I'm with that team the less is more team
also and I've seen it both ways um AI will never replace handwritten minutes they just can't do it because there are inflections there are there just things that we do body
language they can't translate to um and I also know that the minutes are not meant for us to look back on the minister meant for posterity for somebody say okay they talked about this and they don't need all the detail and unless it's quasi judicial we don't need that much
detail which is the lawyer question thank you I learn and so I'm looking at this from a I've been using a lot of AI tools the last two or three months um personally professionally and one of the
things that I found is that it it will over reduce on the first path If this is not a labor item if it's literally just an AI tool the computer's going to take some additional time my thought would be have it produce a transcript and then have it produce a summary from the
transcript and have them both be in the document we don't need to check the transcript every time if the AI gets something wrong but it's not the official record the official record would be the reporting from a you know what happened at the meeting perspective if somebody tried to reproduce it but
for the purposes of having the full account there um that's the way that I would approach it and that's how I would actually procedurally do it it is have it first create a transcript and then ask it to summarize the transcript in two minutes and to keep the original
um Miss Brazmer and then Bill and Tom thank you i think Tyler's probably hit on where I would have gone with this because the problem I have with the discussion ensued encapsulation is that when I'm
looking at the minutes of a meeting I've ne I have not attended uh I want to know why the vote was what it was and if we leave all of that out then we might as well just say the vote was this the vote was this the vote was this on each
agenda item and not put anything so there has to be a happy medium in there somewhere i I like to know at least some of the rationale for why we got where we are and so the the summary strikes me as as a good way to do that because
obviously we don't want to read through the entire three hours of what we said because not everything is worthy of being repeated or reread but but to summarize it I think would make the point and and strike that balance
thank you Bill and do we record and it's how long are we going to keep the recording uh we we do record and I think once it's recorded we have to keep it in accordance with the um public records rules is it
online great do you have anything you want to add Morgan you have the ability to have uh action minutes which includes of the motions seconds etc um you can include additional information um that's helpful
it's not required um so we could have something of a hybrid um where you are taking track of all the motions and everything that needs to be included and then if there's discussion regarding the lizards um that you want to incorporate you have the ability to do that thank
you and AI could learn that yeah so I think if if you all are okay with it um what we'll do for for this meeting we'll ask the the IT folks that are doing this to give us what they think are the
traditional minutes they're they're the more brief and the the transcript and we'll kind of see where we go and of course we can train it right this is outside of my area of expertise um but then we could provide both to you and and we could kind of talk about that uh
if that's okay are you in that scenario are you considering the um traditional minute to be what Tyler was calling a summary it's the more abbreviated version i don't I don't know if summary is the
right word but it's the it's the you know somebody came and gave a presentation about this topic and it talked a little bit about that the the one we saw a sample of was the one where um Josh from the regional planning council was here and so it kind of talked about what Josh told us and then
it said you know well member Malberg had a question about XYZ and then there was some discussion about that topic and then you know um so that's the more traditional I think minutes it wasn't like and then he said this and then he said this and then he said And then there was an action right it was a little more abbreviated much more so
than you're used to seeing I think um and that's what you instructed to or try to get into i I think we can we can maybe try to do both and and you guys can look at both if you're willing to do that and and kind of let us know where you want to fall on the spectrum of
detail john and Tom yeah mine's not on AI so I just think that when we list who's present as far as members we don't list the staff as well i think we should
capture staff in the minutes as well yeah that's a good point and because if we're using AI tools and not Chelsea doing it right because Chelsea knows who's all here when she does the minutes but if we're using AI we really need to announce ourselves we really need to use the microphones um and it it did a
pretty good job of figuring out who was who talking surprisingly um but if there's anybody new that talks that it it might not like again that oh it I don't know what it is but anyway stuff spit out and it was pretty decent who
was talking but I think we we need to be more cognizant of that going forward because it is a machine telling us what happened and and of course it it doesn't replace the human aspect right chelsea's going through them to make sure that what got spit out is accurate and then
you know there's there's more QAQC after that so um but we do need to make sure that we speak clearly into the microphone and it if it's somebody that it doesn't know we need to announce who that speaker is oh Ginger you glanced
off of it does it have a name oh I don't know it needs a name i mean calling it just don't work I don't know it's a It's a program that our IT director created so it's not like a commercial software we call it Steve or whatever sorry i
don't know that That creeps me out to be honest but okay we have a plan okay so so next time you might see two versions an official version that we'll we'll work through it but we're in a period of transition you'll you might
see a couple and speaking of announcing ourselves I see we have a visitor uh we do um so I guess now would be a good time to introduce all the staff that's here so Ginger Dear environmental management director i'm Kelly Matter chief plans examiner for building and
code administration urban growth and resource management swank county attorney's office county engineer Ben director sustainability and resilience manager Chelsea and
Chelse Peterson growth and resource okay we missed people hi G oh you want Jason all right I think we can move on to the next item no business no business flood hazard management regulation overview
discussion oh I'm sorry i'm sorry i I completely bleeped out there yes discussion so I'll do what I did last time how many people watched or attended yesterday's council meeting and and particularly the last item which was the
the discussion okay we have by show of hands Jack John Gonimo Jessica Ga Bill Lights Melissa Landers anybody in line wendy were you there sarah Lee
I was not there and I've been meaning to listen to it but I haven't had a chance yet sarah Lee no no I'm traveling okay thank you so discussion we may now have so I
put this on the agenda to talk about because um we assumed that the discussion at yesterday's council meeting would pertain to the work plan here um so the agenda item was to discuss the seven strategies that the council had voted on
uh in lie of the um moratorum and so uh we had a presentation uh Clay Paulo and um Ben presented about the different the seven different strategies um two of them
really pertain to the work we're doing the no impacts to wetlands and no use of mitigation or wetland impacts um the others were about um flooding and maintenance of canals and um Ben can talk about any of those that
you want to talk about but um the end result was the meeting adjourned before they made any decisions and so there was a a pretty lengthy discussion about wetland impacts and wetland mitigation but they did not provide any specific
direction um so we're going to talk about it at the next council meeting now for their rules that will be the uh next available meeting will be April 15th where they will finalize what their recommendations would be
i did capture that they expressed interest in us returning at least Council member Santiago did to trees that was a lighthearted moment intentionally i just want I don't suppose
I don't know if you thought Oh go back and listen it was there and I you guys snickered i heard you we got visibly snickered yes uh um but what you saw is that the council was listening to us in
regards to some of the uh challenges that we had in the desired implementation that they were requesting um it there's some uh you know until they speak finally we don't really know what they're going to be directing uh
also the conversation between filling on a development site flood plane management and wetlands got very blurred we were trying to differentiate that because again as we said yesterday not all flood planes are
wetlands and not all wetlands are flood planes and unfortunately there was some misunderstanding of that my t-shirt bill and did they direct us to push up wetlands no they did not because they did not as as Clay just said they did
not conclude the discussion so it'll be carried over to the April 15th meeting which is a night meeting uh I thought it was really good to actually talk about all that and get it all out and understand try to tease apart the wetlands versus flood planes versus
spill so I found it helpful as well and I found it a good refresher for what we learned about wetlands which I hope to retain until next meeting so no no no action but um they did talk about you know one of the slides was you know where do you go from here on
wetlands and and part of that is you go to ENRA for recommendations and and you know in um 23 we spent six meetings on wetlands um you did make some recommendations on
chapter 72 not on chapter 50 um so and we have it on our work plan it's not first on the work plan but it's there again for the annual work plan it's number listed as number four um so we may have the council um redirecting a
little bit on the work plan don't know they they didn't you know they didn't get there but uh I would say it's a safe bet that wetlands are on the horizon for discussion and um we'll put another agenda item to recap the April 15th
meeting at our main meeting so with that said um and and Clay just one quick kind of statement is that um those of you all who saw the presentation there was a table that presented the uh summary of
uh wetland impacts that have occurred in the unincorporated area over the last two years and uh I think that's going to spur and we heard coming from the council a desire to look at chapter 50 and seeing what that could be done
because there was acknowledgment that the majority of the development that we see that folks are feeling are impacting wetlands are occurring within the cities and so there may be an effort to try and look at what can be done from chapter 50
to uh again put in place more strict standards or address some of the concerns that are coming from the public thank you um so until next time we have our priorities as we agreed to them at the
beginning of the year and that would make our new business completely correct at this time so now we go into flood hazard management yes and I'm actually going to leave you because I have some deadlines coming up
um so Samantha's going to take over and Samantha and Kelly going to give you all the information you need you're in good hands and I will see you all next month thank you Ginger get situated here we're going to tag team this
presentation so today we're going to go over some basics right we're going to hit all the flood plane management basics we're going over definitions what the different zones mean um the special flood hazard areas and then policy we're going to touch the federal state and our
our local ordinances that we have today it's going to be a lot of information um Kelly is a certified flood plane manager so that's why we have her on board she knows all of the things um so if you have any questions just as you normally do feel free to stop us and we will
answer them to the best of our ability okay hello um I'm going to go over a few few slides um just about some flood plane management basics um with that being said uh that will be flood plane mapping
the national flood insurance program community rating system uh state flood plane management program and Florida building codes uh and local ordinance um so looking at this picture it basically shows a typical flood plane um
you'll see there's a floodway in the center we we have a few floodways throughout Valuchia County there's much more stringent requirements uh for development along a floodway um but and then you see your base flood elevation
um that's the next thing the base flood elevation is is very key to us um for construction purposes when you apply for a permit and and building um but I'll define some of those for you so the flood plane is a flat area of land that's adjacent to a water source
uh such as a lake river or stream uh subject to uh not only during a flood event but times of heavy rain and high tides you could you could have that the floodway is actually like a channel um the channel river water course and the
immediate adjacent land areas it must be kept free of obstructions to allow flood waters to pass without increasing the water surface elevation so you don't want to build on it would you turn your mic off please it is on it's on and could we perhaps two two questions
as you're proceeding will you be I did look ahead but I don't remember did you include these definitions in the deck or can we get a notes view with the definitions is that possible we can send you a notes view and it might be helpful if you have a laser pointer just to show
if is normal channel the same as the uh the flood floodway channel just just so we know on the diagram that it matches the words you're saying and we understand that for the dumb kids in the room like me
okay so there's the floodway that's the one we were just talking about that's that's going to be like your your channels um and the flood fringe uh the flood fringe is a portion of the flood plane located outside the floodway um it's going to experience more shallower
lower velocity flood waters um and it can serve as a temporary storage as as well now the uh 1% annual chance flood hazard uh this one's interesting and there's a lot of confusion on it um especially when I'm dealing with residents that are building they see
that 1% and and they assume I never flooded i got 1% chance what it actually means is you have a 1% chance one out of a 100red chance every year that you could experience this flooding event um
and there's actually there is a 26% chance of flooding over the life of a 30-year mortgage so it increases there too so once you realize what it really means then it becomes a little more serious but I do
have one question the flood weight um so everything in between the brackets are your flood weight but the elevation on the right is higher than the elevation on the left wouldn't those be the same elevations based on your most of the your points
between the two are you talking about the floodway itself yes the floodway elevation stay the same the flood plane elevation outside of that could potentially change based on your floodway elevation should have stayed the
same correct okay yeah okay so these are we'll talk about the flood plane maps that we have to deal with um the uh flood insurance study the FIS uh is actually uh performed by FEMA it's
an engineering study um it determines a community's risk to flood hazards it's developed based on historic information hydraulic hydraologic um meteorologic uh topographic data um so they create
this flood insurance study um the results of this study will then show up on the firm the flood insurance rate map and that's what we use engineers use to determine a base flood elevation all this information is on there and we have
a sample map here where the green is is your zone AES and there will be uh we look for a little squiggly line that that will actually give us the elevation there are two two things when we're talking about
flood zones there's a which is undetermined and then there's AE such as this you'll see the green AE is determined that means that a study was done it's on the flood insurance rate map but base flood elevation has been determined for that area um a lot of our county is actually
in um the undetermined A zone which means no studies have been done you cannot find it on an insurance rate map at that point what we do um up in plan review is when we have to get an elevation certificate for development in
the flood zone it's going to require that surveyor to also contact an engineer to conduct uh independent study of that property based on the same information to determine a base flood elevation so your undetermined zones are going to require a little bit more work than simply just pulling up a map
at some point FEMA I'm sure will update the maps but they're never in a real big hurry to do those things so okay and then um the special flood hazard area we have uh all these different zones yeah you're good
um the most that we see I'm not going to read the whole thing to you for each one the the ones that we focus on the most um is X um unshaded is a lot of what we have that's that's basically when you're
building an egg zone you're not uh in in a flood zone it's it's above the 500year limit um and it's outside the 500year flood so you have the 100year you have a 500year and anything outside of that goes to your your exone so if you're
building an X you're good you don't need the flood insurance or anything like that um and we do have a a few X-shaded areas that are questionable but um and then here's where we talk about the A
and AE zones um that just defines basically what I had just said it used to be the AE zones were called what they say below the A1 through30 that's how the um NFIP the National Flood Insurance uh program determine insurance rates
based on the zones that you were in they no longer do that anymore so now it's just AE and A um we do have uh ah areas in our county uh that's mostly dealing with uh shallow water you know you'll find that around ponds uh any body of
water that's less than three feet um where there can be standing water but nothing you know devastating those are your a zones um the only time I ever really see those zones come up oddly is around mobile home parks um I'm not sure why that is but that's how it is on our
map so is there any questions about the different flood zone then I have one other storm search how does that play into your flood maps as well just you
don't have to give a big explanation but I'd like to know how that comes into play well that's more in your we have these be zones um that's going to be all your coastal stuff um when we're developing in the um be zone rather than
going off of and this is just this is building code related and um D we no longer go off of what the base flood elevation is for that area we're going off what the 100year storm elevation is which is always higher than
your flood elevation that's where that comes in okay it's in the building code as well it'll specify that if if you're developing seawword or the cctl um or in the be zone or both uh it gives
you the option here's three scenarios of what elevation to develop at but it has to be whichever is greater and my experience every time the 100-year storm is greater and and just for clarification in the state of Florida along the coast specifically in Valuchia County we have
the coastal construction control line which is what just Kelly referenced the CCCL this is a state established line which anything seawward has to undergo specific construction methods to assure that it can withstand the storm event
typically what that results is peer and piling type of construction so that that way there's nothing that can be dragged away when the the ocean comes running through it can basically crash through and allow for the pilings to remain
and like uh Clay was just talking um a little bit later on you'll see uh some slides that have to do with that coastal construction and breakaway walls and things like that too this this is perfect um I'm in there and but it's interesting uh I had to do a
slab rightway and it's cut into 4x4 by 6 in so if storm church comes through and it did in Ian in theory
those 12 slabs are going to be where my neighbor's yard mosquito lagoon under the bridge in every canal I mean and I think there's and they also do this the other thing they have is breakaway walls
you know and what happens when they break away I mean where's all that trash go who's responsible Yeah i mean you know those are things when we look at what we might do the sense of this breakaway stuff is a
little pushing mhm i just want to caution we have nothing to do with that we have no capability of changing the standards established for the CCL unfortunately yep I get it
okay I was going and yeah I just wanted to point out on the map here um all of the zones that K was just talking about so zone A is the majority of what we have in Lucia County that's the purple that you see the zone AE is this tanish color you're seeing and it's really hard
to see on this map obviously it's county scale um we have a little bit of zone ah that she was speaking about right in this area zone V is obviously going to be in our coastal areas and then zone X okay so um these map change letters
they can be beneficial um so letter of map amendment is one of them we also call it ALMA um typically this type of letter uh is used when you need the map to be amended because there was an error uh you were incorrectly placed in a
flood zone and it was determined that it's not a flood zone they will amend the map bringing you out of it um the other one we have is letter of map revision we call that a lomar that's going to be um we we do get these um not
on a regular basis but typically when we get them it's because you have someone that's on let's say 5 acres and they they brought in bills specific to the building footprint and they developed at least a foot above the base flood elevation and they don't want to have to
be subject to the the insurance and all the requirements they'll do a letter of map revision um the community us gets involved we have to um sign off acknowledging that it's reasonably safe from flooding based on how it's built and that helps get them out of that
flood zone as well but it's specific to the structure not the property so it's only going to look at where that structure is sitting the rest of the property could still be the flood zone but the structure is not part of that um the next one is uh this is where I
talked about just now F that's where bill is brought in you're you're you um are doing a lomar because you brought in bill and you've developed up out of the base flood elevation and I should say the previous one the lma without the fill you might have that or the lomar
without the fill um when they've done a stem wall or something like that and not brought all this fill in and then you have the uh PLMAR which is a conditional letter of map revision that it the applicant goes directly to
FEMA for because it's a condition it's a condition that as long as you do these things after you develop get checked then when then it'll be considered for a LMAR but it's a conditional letter so a lot of times whenever we do site plan or subdivision development the applicant
will come in and maybe where they're proposing is currently in a flood plane but the proposal will take it out of the flood plane so they're going to go ahead and go to FEMA go through this application process say "Hey this is what I'm going to propose is this okay?" And then they will go through the LMAR process after they bring the fill in or however they're planning on getting it
out of the flood plane so it's just one of the steps well what Samantha just described as a selling point for the developer to sell the last we will be out of the flood zone when it's built is that also apply i'm thinking of an
article that was in the news journal a few weeks ago about homeowners in New Smyrna that had retrofitted their their home and property would let's say that they had a mortgage and they wanted to get out from under a requirement to have flood insurance would this process apply
to them i mean if it's an existing structure it has to meet the the minimum 1 foot above the base flood elevation which you can't do with a right and unfortunately residential structures are not allowed to have dry flood proofing either so I'm
not sure how they would go about doing that there is an option if you get the right engineer that knows how to elevate it the existing structure some are capable of doing that and some aren't yeah and and I don't think they did that with just various mitigation techniques they've taken yeah and and uh one that
I've seen after Ian that's common up in Orman is people are building a second story and then the bottom they're opening up to garage and storage so that's a that's another way they do it and those those different mitigation strategies will not take them out of the flood plane um it'll take the structure
out of the flood plane but the map itself will not change unless they go through this process we've had single lots come in before just with a regular LMAR because their um or LOMA because the the property they had someone come in had an engineer come in determine that they were outside
of the flood plane but the map said they were in it so they have that ability to come in and say "Hey no I'm actually not here's all my documentation." And then it'll take them out of the flood plane on the official map so they do not have to have flood insurance so there are ways but the other ways are you're going
to have to change the the property itself right tyler so there's a couple of these examples that I've had like in my career one of them it was a zone A so at the beginning of the presentation she mentioned zone A
is unstudied we performed a detailed study and removed a lot of structures from the zone A designation and created a zone AE so that's one path that a homeowner could have without having to lift their structures if it is a zone A and it's an
incorrect designation like Sam was saying the other option that we have explored is a lot especially like East Valuchia a lot of our flatland areas are drained by canal systems and those canal systems often have choke points that's a box folder or something else going under
a roadway so you can go upgrade one of those and take an entire neighborhood out of the flood plane by dropping the effective stage and hydraulic grade line in those ditches we've done that type of stuff as well um but other than that there's you know there's not a lot of uh
relief for a homeowner especially if you're on the inter coastal or on the major drainage system and not a man-made network so Okay so that's um with these letters the uh you can see how much acres was added to the flood
plane and how much was removed from the flood plane since 2017 um which is quite a bit I have a question um a University of Miami study I'm reading this found that 21% of housing
built in Florida and I realize we're talking about Valuchia counties all Florida between 2001 and 2019 was within the 100year flood plane so what I'm understanding up until now is we
can take properties so I have no idea if that study means that they were in the flood plane but they took action that took them out of the flood plane i didn't know you could get out of the flood plane um and your neighbor could be in the flood plane is what I'm hearing right yes yeah so that that was
essentially it i I can be in the neighborhood but take myself out of the neighborhood uh Tad Skynet here so um part of the issue with the flood plane is that back when they originally set up these maps they
didn't have the detailed contour information that we currently have so they were using uh when they ran these models basically the 5-ft contours on the USGS maps and they weren't bad they just aren't anywhere near as accurate so
uh part of what happens is uh FEMA on a semi-regular basis uh when they go to burn their saddle they'll go through and update this last time when they updated in 2014 to 2017 time frame uh we had provided we being the county had provided our one foot LAR contours and
now they're able to go ahead and update that so instead of uh prorating between two 5-ft contours they're able to actually shift and adjust in those areas where we know exactly where the blood plane elevation is defined to match that line so in in some cases part of what
you'd see in a change why some of the homes came out was simply because the contour map that everything was based on was incorrect so in some of those cases that's a portion of the uh the adjustment uh you also as you go through
and do the flood studies uh like Tyler was talking about and you're actually getting an accurate read on what that elevation was all the zone A areas and I don't know what modeling software they used at the time but they uh they did something back in the 50s and came up
with these rough approximations for what the elevation for the flood plane was they uh they are you know they're not inaccurate but they're not highly accurate and that's why you have to go perform a study to identify what that
actual elevation is um it could be a couple of feet either way and in a flat state like Florida when you're changing contour lines that two feet could be a difference of 100 feet in terms of your horizontal location it can change quite a bit so the history plays into a lot of
the numbers and when you try to compare well these number of acres came in or came out there's different reasons for that and I wouldn't just take the statistics uh uh at face value there'd be some some questions that would be raised if I were looking at it to go you
know removing 8,000 acres well that sounds like we've just played games um and I don't know where the new acreage would have come from either those are really big numbers uh so I'd be really curious to how that actually occurred other than cleaning up versus the
contour lines overall um so to so just to reiterate to make sure I understand that garbage in garbage out part of this part of changes could be the result of better measurement techniques and establishing better understanding of the topography
right and some of it and that would be no man-made alteration whatsoever necessarily that's just a better read of the terrain and the other could we can also influence as human beings and do man-made things that would change a flow
plane so both of those both of those are correct possibilities and we don't know up there which right I the extent of the the data supporting I don't know if anybody can answer but I'd have a hard time believing that uh there were 6,000 acres of development that caused the
difference between the 2,000 and the 8,000 there that's that's a large amount of development i can't uh can't imagine that we've done that since 2017 in the cities unincorporated areas combined i would have a hard time believing that so um yeah I think it's more about being
more accurate with prevention the one thing to keep in mind too is that uh these flood plane maps we do know that there are uh depending on the definition of flood plane you use and uh staff indicated the definition for you all
it's tied to water bodies fema though also takes a look at areas that are not tied to water bodies we talked about it a couple of different times in our storm water conversations about closed basins closed basins are not connected to water bodies in every situation but they will flood during a
100red-year storm and so when you take a look at the FEMA definition it does factor that aspect in and it's basically any area that floods in that 100-year storm so the maps themselves do not reflect that so you know you see a a white area there for Dand Orange City uh
west of Tiger Bay uh but east of the St john's River there should be more dots in there to indicate these closed basins and the water is uh piling up in those areas and we talk about like Miller Lake we talk about uh over there off the Taylor Road several other areas that
have come up that they in point of fact they are flood plane because water does pond in that area but that's not what FEMA was targeting when they originally did these maps and even after they got the contours they didn't go back and and add that in and that's one of the things
that uh we probably need to take a look at in terms of the next round of modifications to the storm water rule is putting something in there specific to identify those closed basin issues and make sure that anything that gets designed in those areas is uh properly
accounting for that particular situation thank you melissa can we jump into the question queue when I get a chance yes Wendy thank you bills ahead of you okay and then are we going to get to the point
where we talk about flood plane impacts because the way I understand it as a lay person is you have flood plane depending on the depth or the elevation and the topography going down so in some places you have deep flood planes and then it
tapers up to a very very small area and when a developer designs or civil engineer designs a um the flood plane impacts they also have to compensate for them and cup for cup is what they use and I'm going to slaughter this because
this is just layman but if you impact a small you know 2 in of the flood plane here you have to go somewhere else and excavate to make that flood plane whole like it was before so this concept of no
um development in flood planes is kind of misguided because you are yes you might be putting it in a small bit of flood plane but you're compensating for it and changing that part because it's no longer in the flood plane because you
filled right with your lomar your clar whatever Wendy so that's what I wanted to follow up on and thank you for bringing that up Bill um the compens compensating storage point is a good point but does the
compensating storage depending on where you put that on your site does it really capture all of that you know diverted floodplane water because you know I think that's I think that's what we are
hearing from the the homeowners in older homes that have flooded that when a new development comes in builds on fill you know it is displacing water that you know used to
ride along in that floodway or you know flood zone um you know that then got filled and even if there is some sort of compensation that was that was engineered into it some of those flood waters seem to be sort of shifting or
accumulating someplace else you know whether that's because the filled you know site created a dam of sorts you know it isn't it isn't just that you know they're catching their storm water they're you know what I'm saying
it's somehow or another flood water is being relocated onto other people i mean that's what we're hearing people say that's what we're seeing so so I guess a question for Kelly is you know if you do a revision you know Lomar to revise the
maps for the properties that got filled does it also kind of trickle out to rewrite the maps for other nearby properties that might be more at risk than they used to be ed wants to take a stab at that and then
Jessica yeah what uh what I would say with regard to to that aspect is uh if a property comes in single family home in a in an existing subdivision um I think it's the situation you're
referencing like uh something in Daytona Park Estates where the lot was created a long time ago prior to any storm water rules and uh people have built homes in there and now you've got people coming in that prior to our current rules and now you've got people coming in trying to build under our current rules the uh
situation in a lot of those is if there's flood plane on the maps then we go ahead and we do require the cup for cup on those lots and if they can't do it then they can't build there the issue is that quite a few of
those do not have flood planes shown and the storms that we've had are above 100redyear storms so yeah you're probably going to have more water and uh have that kind of flooding where if they fill that volume it's a problem but under the hundredyear they'd be just
fine so uh heck we have one uh that we were just talking about before I came into this meeting before lunch where we've got that same situation somebody wants to build on an old lot the lot is in the flood plane over on the east side of the the county and we're going to tell them look you have to replace cup
for cup everything that's in there now if it uh you went two lots over there's another lot that's vacant it's above the flood plane that would be fine now you take a look at what the elevation is on that versus you know the storms from uh Ian or Milton you know any of those
three hurricanes where uh the volumes were higher than the uh the 100red-year flood then those probably would have had water but the landmark that the county currently uses and just about everybody uses is the 100red-year flood plan if we want to talk about changing that that's
always a possibility but that's what the current standard is with regard to those so it's it's not that the 100red year is wrong it's just it may not be adequate to handle the current situation i don't want to speak out of turn um I I just wanted to note too when
we talk about flood plane and then flow to off-site neighbors I think part of that gets into the storm water kind of rate of discharge discussion that we've had tangled up um because my understanding of comp storage is it has to be connected hydraologically but it doesn't have to be within the same site
and so you may not be compensating for your flood plane impacts on your own property as long as it's you know within the same basin or adjacent in rare cases um and it's hydraulically connected so the the water flowing off site is not necessarily what's being mitigated with comp storage it's the overall flood
plane capacity the water flowing off site is tied into rate of discharge for storm water regulations the uh and in theory that's that's not a bad idea it's pretty much the same thought as uh wetland mitigation but in this
case uh if you don't do it in a close enough location it's very easy to change how flooding works in terms of how it moves through an area overall and then you're back more similar to a situation like
Wendy was mentioning so if it's not on an adjacent property tied into that same exact area I as an engineer would not be comfortable doing mitigation for flood plane impacts very far away because you will change the flow characteristics and where water piles up based on several
different factors including topography and buildings and so on and so forth but thank you so just I'm sorry to interrupt your presentation but it this highlights that there are really kind of three
components about flooding that we have been talking about and need to continue talking about wetlands flood plane and storm water treatment those three things together or not together but separate is
what we need to consider i think we're good to continue so we are transitioning over into some policy and start with federal unless you have any further questions on those flood management basics okay all right um we're going to
talk about the National Flood Insurance Program this is a program that is run by FEMA so federal government um there are different parts to it there's different roles that FEMA has their own role state has their own role and local government has their own role we'll talk about each
of those as you can see on the screen they look at the entire program um they have minimum requirements to be in the program and what you have to do as a state local government um so they're identifying that flood risk they have those basic maps right that we were
talking about they provide some technical assistance they're always encouraging mitigation and um providing that federal flood insurance coverage so the majority of flood insurance coverage within Florida is going to be uh
national flood insurance program backed policy um there are private insurers that people can have their flood insurance through most of the time i'm not really sure about right now um most of the time it is more expensive to go through a private insurer but you might get broader coverage and things of that sort excuse me i looked that up
yesterday yes because I'm I'm not required to have flood insurance but I'm one of those risk averse people that buys it and apparently you can FEMA itself does not administer they don't underwrite the policies you have to go through a private insurer to get that
coverage but there are you can have insurance that's not backed by FEMA it's not a part of the national flood insurance program because there are as we can see there are communities that may not be a part of the NFIP which is the national flood insurance program so if you're not a
part of it you cannot have that flood insurance state's role excuse me real quick just for clarification since we're talking about flood insurance there's been changes in how they do the assessment just because you're in the flood plane doesn't necessarily mean you're the only one who has to get flood
insurance so when you start hearing some of the mortgage companies because they what was it a year or so ago Kelly they did risk rating 2.0 so therefore uh I also who live on the barrier island I'm just waiting for the note that yes I will have to have
some sort of flood insurance because even though I'm out of a flood plane I may be at a higher risk and so they're using factors that they won't disclose it all feeds into the model they shake the chicken bones over top of it and now comes the answer as to whether or not you have to or don't have to have flood
insurance just want to make sure that everyone understands that from of plain simple mortgage and insurance perspective i think they had um about maybe at that same time when that was in the news uh there
were both climate people and insurance people saying anybody in Florida would do well to have flood insurance period true yeah i think it's important to identify that those uh social flood hazard areas are just a level of risk there is
nowhere in the state of Florida that does not have any risk flooding um so moving on to the state's role in the NFIP is that they have their own program oversight and that's where you get some higher standards and we'll talk about the affordability code in a bit um
a lot of their standards come through there and they administer a lot of the federal mitigation grant programs a lot of the time the state is our in between with the federal government for any changes to our flood plane ordinance and once we get into our our local uh regulations and
requirements we'll talk about if we have to have any changes to that it does need to go to the state which will be our go between FEMA to make sure whatever changes we make are in compliance with the NFIP so community's role you would have to adopt your um own local flood plane
ordinance which Lucia County has um so we are within the NFIB we provide technical assistance to the citizens and inspect and maintain records that that's what the land development office does that's what building and code compliance does one of
Kelly's main roles um is looking to make sure that structures coming in are in compliance so this is just a brief description um bullet points of if you're in the NFIP these are the great things that happen if you are not then like we said before you won't be able to
obtain NFIP flood insurance you'd have to go out to that private provider um you also the physical and financial exposure for the losses you're not going to be eligible for certain grant funding so there's a lot of um negative things
as to why you should be within that NFIP now a part of this kind of segus off of the National Flood Insurance Program is that if you want to go above and beyond those minimum requirements then you can be a part of the community rating system um it's a voluntary program that
communities can um opt to be within and unincorporated Blushe County and 10 other cities within Bluchia County are a part of the community rating system in essence it gets you a discount or gets our citizens a discount on their flood
insurance based on those additional regulations or requirements you put into the code um yeah so discount from 5 to 45% and then the 11 local governments there this book it is a huge huge
um certification that the county has to go through every couple of years this all the requirements within the CRS um that you can get points for and it's a huge feat we're actually going through a cycle visit within the next two weeks um and Kelly is heading
that up she's super excited similar to an audit by the arms yes yeah it is a full scale audit it's it's quite a bit um but fortunately um unincorporated county are we do really good we have an excellent rating and as
you see our residents down there at the bottom get a 25% insurance discount on the national flood insurance you know and that's the people that's got the NFIP participation on participation you go private you don't get all that so so
what you want to do here is in the the CRS the community rating system program um the lower the number the better right so if you're doing bare minimum you're level 10 and then you can go all the way up right so we a lot of communities that are level five or rated as a five as you
can see and we have some communities that you know joined at a later date so they are catching up with the rest of us um so what happens is that the the county has a community rating system um coordinator um so there's a full-time position that's dedicated to this
program um along with other planning functions and is their job to make sure that we are meeting all those requirements um most the majority of the cities also have someone it's tacked on to an additional job um that have to do their CRS program as well and they all
collaborate throughout the year and do outreach and all that good stuff any questions on the community rating system we went through it faster than NFIP because we're about to move on to state policy one question I note that the only city in there from the west
side of the county is Deltona i don't see burying i don't see orange city i want to see the land uh is that because they're up on a ridge or just because they're cheap well participation in CRS is optional
they don't have to do it i don't I believe Warren City doesn't even have any zones um I think that's the city that doesn't even have it but and Deand does not participate in the um CRS program no from what I'm aware Dand is working on their their plan is to participate that's what I've heard in
the past year or so go ahead Clay yeah they're definitely floating yes and very Yeah when the CRS program came out it was primarily coastal cities that really jumped on it because as you can see they
were the ones that were subject to a lot of the fighting that occurred early with 2004 with Charlie Francis and Jean so to move on transitioning over to state so FDM
um is the Florida division of emergency management they are the uh coordinating agency uh of the NFIP so we have to work with them report with them currently because of the backto-back hurricanes we
and the flooding we sustained um the 15th of every month I'm actually required to report to them updates on any permits that have come in for repairs who got flooded because there's also a thing called substantial damage um that we have to make sure we're
applying to every permit to uh what's good about FDM though is they also have uh fasttrack a new grant process so if you did flood and you have NFIP and you want it to do mitigation to get your house out of it either rebuild or elevate you could apply for a grant
through FEMA um and if you have NFIP there's also a thing called increased cost of compliance where they grant you the 30,000 and then you would apply for um it's an HMGP I believe it's called grant with FEMA bad news about that and
we learned all this back in Ian is that was a five-year process um they have now stepped up and and uh I think it becomes effective June they're going to start doing it but FDM's come out with Elevate Florida and these grants are actually going through
within six months um so that's really good for our residents that have to meet up with two floodings and are just over and ready to do something but they don't want to lose their home either um it's uh they we we've incorporated their
requirements luckily the Florida building code has recognized some of that so they do uh have put it in the Florida building code which we're going to talk about next it makes my job easier because when you're trying to implement these things and and you can you can actually have an actual building code that backs it up for it
um so the building codes that we look at um basically for residential is chapter um 322 chapter 3 I'm sorry section 322 has to do with the flooding um so one thing we look at when it uh 322.1.6 protection of mechanical
plumbing electrical equipment um we want to make sure HVAC right that that you're at least a foot above the base light elevation you don't want your your utilities to go up underneath we are doing flood reviews and requirements on whole home
generators i do have some people get aggravated about this but in a flood event if it's not above the base flood elevation and it goes under guess what you ain't got a generator and you paid all this money for it so we want to make sure those things work for you so you are required to elevate whole home
generators now as well um uh elevation requirements what we talk about buildings and structures shall have lowest floor elevated to 1 ft above the base flood elevation um attached garages are allowed to go below the base flood elevation as long as they have
flood openings um so most people opt to put the whole thing above but you I do have some that come in and they got uh the habitable space is 1 foot above and the garage is not they have to do flood openings um and there's requirements on
that too uh how many you need how they're supposed to be installed um detach accessory structures they just implemented this um in this cycle at the building code and it's been in our ordinance so it's been kind of hard to enforce it without people getting angry
but now it's in the building code that detached accessory structures if they're over 600 ft they got to meet new building requirements 1T above base flood elevation so if you have a shed or something that's 500 square f feet um you are allowed to do flood openings in
there but you're getting a metal building that's 700 square ft and up it's got to be elevated as well and it's it's the challenge that we run into because of the perception of people is all I'm doing is parking lawnmowers and they're who cares they don't understand
the effect that it has on the flood plane so um you have to kind of explain that part to them i have no idea of the square footage of of the sheds that people buy and put in their backyards but
those are under 600 square feet yes and actually um most of the manufacturers that I deal with the plans come in they do have flood plans that come with the sheds because they're aware of that too so it's it's easy on the customer i just sell them you need
to submit the plans the beer shed and beer shed has a whole sheet it's got the one inch per one square foot one on opposite side and how they're supposed to be installed so they're that too sounds it sounds silly or a lot of times the resident will get stressed out oh my
gosh I got to do all this stuff and I try to make it easy on say just give them a call they know exactly what you're talking about and sure enough they do so um I think it's important to point out you know we started with federal so it's going to be the more broad policy and regulations and now we're getting the state they're going to be more
restrictive that one foot above that base flood elevation that's a state requirement is not an FIP requirement so as we keep going we'll see get to our local ordinance it'll be even more restrictive right um and my favorite one the B zones coastal construction
um we kind of talked about this earlier that the elevation is to be based on the 100year storm elevation which is higher than the base flood elevation um so the bottom of the lowest horizontal structural member which is typically your gray beam um should be at
or above the base flood elevation plus 1 foot this is also where you get into the breakaway frange walls frangible slabs and all that too um the foundations um over on the coast have to be on pilings
um yeah excellent you'll see so I put the picture in here to give you an idea when you drive around and see these houses like that because of all these codes so this is now I'm personal following John's example um I live on
the barrier island in a house that's going to be 60 in June uh my parents bought it when it was new and a lot of homes in the north peninsula unincorporated Valia County are up on the they do look like this some of the
newer homes is there an easy map on our website to see where that coastal because I've understood that we have sort of a forced retreat if your home is damaged to 50% or greater of the replacement cost when you rebuild you have to rebuild to this standard um but
I have not easily found a coastal construction line map we do um it's in our GIS mapping yeah we have a JRM interactive map on our website the coastline thank you yeah I think usually M as things start
getting a little scary but like in the Port Orange and and Daytona Beachores area it's like he said almost yeah and I want to say that the the breakaway and those types of things if I'm not mistaken um that's because of that hydrostatic pressure I think that's
the right term so that the entire structure doesn't float away right bigger issue if you have the whole house moving as opposed to a couple breakaway walls right so you got your wave run up and things like that that's required so
you can Jessica just a quick because I think this type of construction and stem wall construction comes up a lot um can you talk a little bit about how raising the structures and the necessary elements interact where you're served with septic where that kind of doesn't
work if the structure in a flood zone with the septic so obviously the health department has their own requirements and if you're in a flood zone nine times out of 10 you're going to see that giant Indian mound out in the front yard um
so they regulate that um when you're talking about swaming with the elevating equipment is that kind of what you're It's mostly on the septic system itself right so we we've heard from a policy perspective and resident concerns of let's stop bringing in fill to properties let's build on stim walls um
but we have large chunks of unor unincorporated and our local governments that are served by septic still and so the struggle is if you can't bring in fill you can't put in a septic system that meets the requirements yeah we're running into that in Daytona
Park stakes uh we've administratively I've made a determination that uh countywide if you are building a flood plane with on a single family lot that's vested you have to utilize stem wall construction or a similar type of method
which is all said and good because then you minimize the amount of fill for the actual foundation of the home the problem that you run into is exactly what you just said um now I have to have a driveway that will get me into the garage or carport that's associated with
so I've got to fill for my driveway to get myself from the road on my garage then in order to meet the clearances the health department is concerned about the depth of the groundwater table you have
to be a set distance above that so that the water or the septage can filtrate through the ground and hopefully not create problems with the groundwater so that's why you see that they have to have those around it so our efforts to
minimize the filling required for the home we're doing okay but there's just a factual aspect of driveways and garage and septic systems that are causing fill on site and I believe the health department I thought that was
transitioning to Yeah that's hasn't happened yet i guess it's going to D we will it will no longer be permitted out of the Valia County Health Department and it will be out of Orlando to market well and and two other things cuz I have
a real passion for sewage um not just me if if you do have to bring in that fill the health department has required you to have an on-site advanced wastewater treatment um rather than a regular traditional septic system which has different costs associated with it
because it has to be maintained on a yearly basis and the other thing I found out because I do have this passion for sewage um I was very shocked and sad to find out when I had to replace my drain field a couple of years ago that because
my home was built before 1985 my distance from the water table is grandfathered in and I can still be I can pollute like it's 1965 baby with was pardon yeah so that when you look at old
housing stock in somewhere like the North Peninsula uh it's just going to be as bad as it's going to be for a long time so on the subject that's a really good question in the drain field because that it it has to be 12 in the bottom of the
the gravel or the drain field has to be 12 in above the seasonal high that's the or 18 but that's the se same seasonal high as we're using for the discharge for the storm water system um so how are they dealing with that if you have to
raise you want to limit fill and let's say you you have a you know entitled lot and it's even wetlands and you have to do stem wall and but you have to then have a pad for your drain field are you allowed to do that yeah we're we're
allowing for uh the Gota the simple fact is this is that we cannot have a regulation that takes the use of the property in this fashion and with D taken over it's possible that that will change there are things called a performance-based treatment system um
and it's almost a self-contained wastewater system it treats itself in the tank before it goes to the drain field it reduces your setbacks it reduces your height requirements from groundwater and essentially by the time it gets out to these little 1/2 in lines that look like irrigation lines it's
been self treated water and they I I've seen them before they almost act like a sprinkler system in these holes um they right now are being utilized where there's not a whole lot of room to put in an entire subject system because it reduces the size and they're quite costly but hopefully you know that's
something that the kind of enforce too if in a flood zone and they're costly and there's something that communities need to consider when they're given the opportunity to go into sanitary sewer and they decide not to because water flows uphill into the ocean
um in the estimation of many Uh I wanted to mention too that after you know we talk about flooding not occurring so much on the east side of the of the county but after u Milton the the first time since I've been back here and
reading next door people were complaining that their septic systems were backing up into their yards because the water table had risen so high so even though people weren't having problems with flooding per se in their homes they're seeing in an area that
doesn't traditionally flood the impact of lots of rain that's just a side note all right any further questions on building code state requirements going on the local so the um local flood plane
management regulations it rests the local community um granted by state statutes and it's sprinkled throughout all of our documents we're going to it's within our comprehensive plan it's within our um land development code and as always it's to address the public
health safety and welfare of our citizens so um you received or you received an email that directed you to the website with all of the additional documentation i went through the comprehensive plan and highlighted the areas that
referenced flood plane um or special flood hazard area so that on your time on own time you can go through and look to see all of those things um here I've just identified those elements in our comp plan that reference the flood plane or flood hazard areas see it is
sprinkled throughout multiple elements and then there are two divisions really that it's talked about within our um chapter 72 code of ordinances one is the division 4 design and construction standards of improvements a lot of these standards
are implemented by TAD's group over in development engineering and then traffic engineering um going to touch on them because you also received these i don't want to bore you and read every single word um basically you should not be subdividing
or developing land without having flood control measures on the property because we want flood redevelopment and flood-free vehicular access to the site that's a big thing that we look at when a um commercial project or a subdivision comes in is especially that flood free
vehicular access and the development itself so whether that be individual lots or um the structure for the commercial site however it is um the uh specific first floor elevation must be at least 1 ft above the uh base
flood elevation which is really just the same thing that the um what a building code says there are a little bit more specific requirements but it's really talking about um the uh platted lodge and the speaks
to the regulatory floodway and John has a comment john just a question um does anybody know where the one foot came from the basis of it or was it arbitrary in 1954 you
know and we're still doing it uh I couldn't tell you when it was enacted but I don't believe this was enacted in the uh 1954 when they originally set the maps they were they were just identifying the maps they weren't putting these regulations quite
in place those have come since then uh the building code is really where it's established associated with the structures and I think that was after Andrew i don't think that was in place prior to Andrew if it's part of the higher standard we talked about getting in the NFP
the question is it's one two it's actually the uh transform 386 funding any house that's redone with that has to be 2 ft above the line so the federal government's adjustment there
broward County has also gone through an exhaustive analysis uh they use an exhaustive USGS based study of the flood water and or groundwater factored in sea level change factored in storm surge and has identified that in some areas they
can require upwards of four feet depending on your location and they've got a great website on resilience their county website yes thank you the one foot is a magic number that nobody can determine another one we have that we deal with is the 35% rule
most of our land development code says you can't have over 35% of your lot as being impervious and as yet unless somebody here can explain that to me i don't know where that number came from either Dad nobody my my thoughts on it and it's just a
just a thought on it was that that was really before the storm water rules were in place and storm water rules uh were uh non-existent really until 1983 and I think that was really just a means to try to cut down on her surface and that's just it because you go by uh the
storm water rules you go I don't know why there would need to be a percentage established for a particular line because you make an assumption much higher than 35% per line in your storm on our house computer and I want to clarify the 35% is
building area not impervious so it does not we understand that impervious can take upwards of 80% of the lot when you factor in the setbacks so if you build your setbacks for both accessory structures like a pool decks
all that fun stuff you're getting to 75 to 80% impervious on a residential lot given that it's a standard builder's quarter acre Okay but a lot of the uh city zonings at least our included do have a maximum impervious not just
building area but maximum impervious but I think that again that's a holder from three storm water that's just a guess thank you and just I mean the reason for this I I think we're we're dealing with two
things right we're dealing with how how how can we deal with existing structures and the things we've done in the past right what can we do there's not a lot we can do but we're trying to do but the other part is how do we prevent things in the future and that's where the code
and the that's where we we might be able to have an impact you know the future may look a little brighter than past well I think that's part of the substantial damage assessments we have to do too is FEMA NFIP gets tired of
paying out these monies on a on a home that's a repetitive loss or flooded two times so now they want people to come up with everyone else in the new standards so they're they've got these grants and increased cost of compliance i I personally feel that's one way to help
these older homes come up to current standards um the as they come in and we had a ton of them come in for repairs and they exceed that 50% it's okay you got to either rebuild or elevate so you know and that's a house built in 1970
and so I personally I feel that's one way to help get everybody up at some point oh I'm Sorry it's being discreet okay next section of division 4 really talks about the uh roadway sections and street
elevations as you can see it states that they has to be at least 1 foot above that base flood elevation um and a lot of extra words in there too um but the gist of it is the streets are supposed to be elevated and that goes back to that flood free
access now we're going to get into division seven and that's where the bulk of our regulations are within chapter 72 is our flood hazard management board dice it's um it's 2:29 and if this is the bulk maybe it would be a good moment to take our
customary five minute break try to keep it to five if you can is that all right okay so come back at no later than 2:39 everyone is officer um open
yes [Music] but you know we don't do this so I was trying to figure out but really wants to know legs duration drop
off right we don't just go put the ball study to make sure it's warranted you know just like we do with signals and certific I'll talk Would you would you let me know sure i'll give you my card and you
can Yes she knows that way back on how Well you know she's doing pretty maintenance they want
something legal get actually [Music] Yeah they could not be but that's okay i mean construction
okay so this is just starting based on something like that september 22nd all the discussions about army and Washington because there's
no save your time or not save you Maybe they all have No what else halloween professor we didn't start everybody made it back with one minute to spare
so we are reconvening samantha please continue all right so division seven flood hazard management i wanted to underline this specific portion that's at the very beginning of the division because all of
these items that are added within this ordinance are based off that scientific and engineering considerations and that it does not imply that land outside the map special flood hazard areas or uses within those
hazard areas will be free from flooding or flood damage right we're trying to make it better we're trying to reduce the risk that does not mean it won't have any risk next I want y'all to keep that in mind as we're going through
it okay so this division applies to all of the flood hazard areas in unincorporated Valuchia County there is a um a flood plan administrator that is assigned um officially to land development manager right now it is at
um our chief building building official i was going to say you but it's not you um so it's over in our building department right now um and these are the roles that are on the screen that that flood plan administrator has to do a lot of it is
um looking at those impacts to the flood hazard areas so whether that be through a development project a building permit what have you any of those types of impacts they have to look at so Kelly has a lot of work so you know it's all delegated to her
right um this is something that sometimes people get really confused on is that you may need a flood hazard management permit even if you don't need a building permit so areas that are typically exempt from the Florida Building Code may still need a flood
hazard management permit for our code um so that includes those non-residential farm buildings on farms so if you're an agricultural operation and you're putting a building or if you want to dig a ditch on your property in the flood plane you have to come in for a permit
with our office um also temporary building sheds any modular mobile structures um all of the things that are listed here do we actually have any chickies in Mushi County not that I'm aware of yes
yes where two people have had the seminal Indians coming in them they're exempt from the building code but they are not exempt from the flood plane management ordinance so if they are going to build said chicky within the uh flood hazard areas then they would need
to comply with our ordinance any questions on this because this is a a main source of confusion for our citizens in the county and it's becoming more and more of a hot topic as well out of nowhere i'm not sure why but so let me ask on that and it's not about the
act buildings but all of these buildings how many people apply for these permits i mean because you're building in a flood flow i do not have a list or a number do you have a number or an idea and you're you're hitting it right on the head is
because most of the folks who are involved in active agriculture those who have bonafideed a agricultural classifications know their example from the Florida Building Code and the local zoning regulations so they proceeded on and they put in their pole barns their metal buildings and those types of
things as they would anyway um so it's really a complaint driven situation thank you and I'm not worried about the egg buildings in this question it's how many people come and build a structure of that nature in a flood plane i mean
is this a a very common thing or is it um I would say well we have we did have one code enforcement case where it did occur where we had um there was someone who came in for an
a structure and expanded it beyond the act use and when we went back to investigate they did not meet the finished floor elevation but because the original a building was openwalled in other words it pole barn sure there was it met the requirements for a free flow
through it so it did not have to have any like Yeah and I think a lot of them I know that you're not concerned about the the farm buildings and things of that sort but I think that's where a lot of and um I can't vouch for my fellow
agriculture guys who want to build in a blood well because if you don't have to have a a building permit or comply with zoning regulations you just you do it right um so that might be be something that we have to focus outreach efforts on to make sure that people are aware that this is required and these are the
the regulations in our code well I I know we just had conversations with Matt Roth over at Magnolia Farms he's putting in a metal building so the word is getting out in the agricultural world because they they've heard it and he contacted us to verify what was required
to put in his metal building so that was a good sign yeah so as I kind of touched on a little bit ago um this is also for any development within the flood hazard areas development includes any dredging filling grading paving or excavations so
that's another one that trips citizens up a lot because maybe they have an agricultural operation and they are ditching the property for knows what um whatever for their agricultural operation and it's going through a flood plane so in that instance they would have to come in for a permit for
compliance i've run into them a few times as as a complaint driven situation um and as we already talked about the the ones that are exemption of Florida building code also need permit any questions on
that um now we're going to get into kind of specifics so subdivisions they must all show the flood hazard area on the plants it is a requirement and if it's over 50 lots or larger than five acres they have to determine the base flood elevation so as Kelly was talking about
if it is within that flood hazard area that zone A where that base elevation is not determined if it trips this threshold then they have to even if there is no development within that flood hazard area on the property so you
have 5acre property they are going to cluster their lots over here in the corner they are supposed to still do a study and determine that base flood elevation that's the way we can update our maps right um for site improvements there are
requirements that if you're close to a uh a floodway as we were talking about earlier um for distance of how you are or are not allowed to have any type of encroachments that's within the first bullet point there um you can't have any development or that excavating
disturbing activity within that regulatory floodway floodway and um for their specific requirements for coastal high hazard areas as well for the disturbance of uh mangroves or sand dunes so we do get more specific within
our regulations for certain site improvements and a lot of them have to do with grading right um so that's that's where we run into a lot of things because they're changing the topography of that that area or that site and as Kelly said that regulatory floodway is
very important it has more stringent standards within all the tiers we talked about today john then Jack in terms of in that coastal I was in the coastal construction zone my land by
fill had to be beach compatible sand and it and the only place I can get it is in the sand pit over in Oak Hill but I mean it's like I got it Jack I was wondering how this applies to
docs because you're talking about encroachment to a stream so how does that fit is it is it apply the same way because you're talking to you know equal to five times the width of the stream so how do you put a dock in on your
property i mean we don't have nor does the building code have a specific requirement for docks docks are allowed to get wet docks are open they can you know they're not obstructing a flow structure so you're not considering them an encroachment right okay yeah
and for you're not bringing in bill either right or doing any grading activities within that regulator if it's in a regulatory floodway or a but for the majority well that's why there is a plan review that you have plan review to make sure you're not doing that and typically I have not ran across one um
last couple years that's doing anything like that it's just um cut and dry running the dock straight out no fill um they're not altering anything with the banks or anything like that seaw walls same thing yep yeah but you could back fill into the seaw wall and all that that Yeah that that was the question
yeah for seaw walls they they would need um there would be a more intense review if they're going to be back filling within that yeah if it's going to go and alter the floodway and it's going to require a review yes I see that a lot in my neighborhood and it depends if it's in a regulatory
floodway or not and we only have certain areas in the county that are designated by that so we have specific requirements for our manufactured homes um they cannot be in within the floodways or the coastal high hazard areas unless they're already existing um they have to be anchored
you're going to see that within the next few slides everything has to be anchored so it doesn't float away um and also you don't want any collapsing or lateral movement same thing you don't want to float away and the foundations and frame elevations is all in Kelly's will house
on those requirements and making sure that complies with the Florida building code specifics on the um RVs and park trailers can't have it in the zone B that's that coastal high hazard area once again um unless it's already
existing and you can't put any new sites within those areas um so if it is going to be within that flood hazard area it has to there are standards for how long it can be there we have in the code that it's less than 180 consecutive days and we have to make sure that it's ready to
move so if there is an issue you're not keeping it there forever right we don't need something on blocks that it can't get out of that that flood hazard area tanks tanks are a big thing um I think that every flood plane management presentation I've ever been at there's
always a picture of a tank on fire floating down the river um after there's a flood so that's why we have very specific requirements for tanks um so they have to be if they are above ground then and not elevated they are permitted except in that zone B that zone B has to
do with that velocity so you have that storm surge you have those issues happening there um so you definitely don't want them there to float away and then if they are above ground and elevated then it has to be above that base elevation like Kelly was talking about um a lot of those generators are
done with um just lost the word but tanks that power them okay thank you um and we don't want those propane tanks the ones that catch on fire and float down the river right absolutely
and that's part of plan review too on the propane tanks is we we make sure we get anchoring details from them as well and then there's requirements for inland vents on those structures we have additional regulations on those coastal high hazard
areas i did not put in all of the specific requirements cuz there are a lot for each of them but we have it for the concrete slabs the decks and patios the seaw walls bulkheads um the if they're solid fences or privacy walls think about that that's going to be blocking um you know the velocity of the
flow happening with that storm surge so there are specific requirements for if you can or can't or where you can or can't have those solid fences and privacy walls out there um and then for the on-site uh treatment and disposal systems and we've hit everything within division
7 which is the bulk of our flood hazard management regulations without giving you uh line by line word by word questions it was a lot jessica when you have u individuals come in like for flood plane mitigation for raising
the equipment specifically above a certain area or in coastal high hazard do you have typical sections or materials you can give the applicant to say like an AC contractor who has to raise the AC up on an older structure so the structure is not coming up just the
piece of it is like how that installation should work um we reference them in the codes i mean our license does not allow us to give them design input rather design or ideas of how it should work but compliance of
that particular section of building code um we did have actually that come up with an electrical system because in coastal high hazard area breakway walls you can't mount like the electrical service on the wall um so he wanted to do this platform which is absolutely
allowed um and it it checked out with that part of the code that you know the height requirement and you know right down to the size post they were putting in does anyone else have any other questions i we've this is the second
month in a row we've Jessica it's fascinating um I know in the code there's a provision that allows certain um modifications to improvements within the flood plane for like substantial improvements and substantial damage is that utilized i would think
rarely um I know there's discretion in there but it seems discretionary right it when it comes to substantial damage assessment and I've had my fair share of it the last two years I rarely see any kind of modifications that's acceptable
these structures in the flood zone you can't even put paint on without having to be accounted for i mean technically according to FEMA and NFIP you paint your house you got to come in for a flood plane permit it doesn't cost you we're not charging it doesn't cost you but it gets
something in we have it on documents because believe it or not FDM and FEMA do tours of our county and those pack doors they randomly drive around and they mark things down and you don't even know it's taking place all of a sudden get an email we've identified 27 properties and we want the answers to
this and it can be they saw a propane tank they see what looks like an addition and they know it's in the flood zone and we have to produce evidence that we asked for this and that it's compliant and all those good things so with substantial damage it's it's as
crazy as it sounds you can change out the knobs inside the house they're supposed to have house look like permanent but I mean we know people are doing that yeah it's pretty it's pretty inex I just kind of got to elaborate on this is that um obviously we started
back with Charlie Francis and Jean and all the way through all the hurricanes we've experienced um we're seeing greater scrutiny by FEMA for our post- disaster assessment um those are you familiar with what happened down in Lee
County when and also with Cape Coral they basically kicked them out of the program because they felt that they weren't doing sufficient analysis for substantial damage and those types of things that is something we definitely do not want to have occur here in Valuchia County so we've been working
with our partners at FEMA to make sure that we are in compliance we are following all of their u guidance and more importantly we're utilizing their substantial damage estimator when we talk with these folks who have flooded i can tell you it's uh my personal
frustration is reflected from what I see all fine people I work with you're dealing with a couple who are out there looking at their home with water up to the you know the raptors and you're like yeah that's 51% damage you can't rebuild
your house as it was you're going to have to come in it's not necessarily the greatest message to deliver to someone after they've seen their entire uh basically home destroyed so we're trying to work within those confines as best we
can um I can tell you this much FEMA is auditing us on a regular basis after these storms and after the emergency events that have occurred um and so we are taking it very seriously the 51%
standard is in concrete and we have I can tell you very little al you know ability to squeeze out things we do see folks that are trying to avoid it you'll have a contractor saying well the
materials beh donated too bad we have to get the value of that factored into it and it's over a fiveyear period rolling so that means when the event can occurs and you come in Kelly and her staff are over there looking over the
last 5 years of your property and even if the prior owner spent money on it it still counts towards what you're doing and we do have a coastal property where the owner bought the home renovated it spent a considerable amount of money on
it and then two years later it was damaged and that 200k that he spent on it initially counted towards that 50 50% valuation and so he had to demo the home and the new home had to be
elevated so it is a very serious situation and we are following through with it but it's it it it's going to be interesting over the next several years how FEMA follows through with that not to mention how little most people
know about this hello uh that 51% rule we talk about substantial damage uh it's also applies to new construction uh we've run into that with granny flats people want to add granny flats to their homes bring mom in and raise the bone value up to
the point that they get now there are workarounds around that and I've seen these where unscrupulous builders say "Well I'm going to add this piece to your house over here it'll raise the value of your home so the 51% threshold when you come in for granny won't be met." They're sneaky those guys are but
it's not just substantial improvement right it's just not But it's not just for damage it could also be slash damage is set up so those two work hand in hand sometimes it's just an improvement you're doing sometimes it's damage and you're having to improve it
so the term works both ways but you are correct with additions um lateral addition there the whole thing you got to go grab with additions for sure oh Bill so what's our task so that was funny you should ask
um did you have another question okay it seems we've concluded our business for today so and Jessica do you have something right now additional sorry okay so next month's meeting would be to hear from
you about recommended changes to our flood plane management we can come back with recommended changes um and I identify those for you and maybe spark discussion um about if what we recommended is is sufficient or
you know have anything additional to add or remove does that sound good okay one part of that conversation will be from the Florida Department of Emergency Management they have a model local ordinance for flood zone
management so we will include that because it is kind of the lititness test that DEM utilizes when they're analyzing whether or not a local government is doing the best they can to comply with their requirements so it's not a
specified mandate but it's a very strongly implied mandate bill does does the current code reflect um kind of that yeah model code or they
completely rewrite it no no we're pretty we're we're up to date there's there's debates on the definitions where you have your definitions that create some interesting conversations
between the county bureaucrats and the state bureaucrats and jumping in on definitions the division 7 flood hazard management has specific design um definitions within it specific to that division right it's not
in the overall um portion of chapter 72 so we have things that are specific to the requirements of division 7 is there anything you want us is there anything that you recommend we read and study that is in our possession now prior to our next meeting to make it
fruitful um I would definitely if you haven't already just glance at the um policies and goals that we have in our comp plan that I highlighted for you just so that you have a general understanding of what is already in there and like what our goals are for the county right and you also have the
division 4 and division 7 is on the website as well so if you want to get into the nitty-gritty of what we talked about today you you can do that and then start writing your own notes for recommendations but um I would I would think about a holistic view of the county and because this is applied to
every property within the flood hazard area so just keep that in mind when you're coming up with ideas jessica Jessica a question on homework does the county have any mapping available or numbers that could be shared that identify how many structures we know
exist in the flood plane that don't meet these regulations that were are grandfathered in if you will i am not aware of ones that are not that are grandfathered in that don't meet the regulations we do have numbers identifying how many structures within
the flood area um those numbers have been updated they're doing our local mitigation strategy update right now um the emergency management division is doing that so they have gathered numbers for that and our um overall flood plane management plan as well so I can get
that for you but the difference between what's in compliance and what's not sure okay also right now did FEMA adopt that upper northwest St john's update to the flood insurance not
aware i will look into that um for personal notification the FEMA has a website called FEMA Map Store the FEMA Map Service Center and it's just for the fun of it you can type in your own street address and it'll bring you to that flood zone map and then you get
a look at what they look like for your house and the surrounding area it's very enlightening it's a very easy to use mapping service as well so I definitely recommend P if you have a link could you possibly send that uh we can definitely you one thing from a staff perspective just
to give you all a little anecdotal information um our prior community rating service system manager Constance Bentley lives in area South Daytona she's out of the flood zone but her
property is flooded twice because of the the hurricanes that occurred because she's tied to a coastal drainage system so the fact is that the flood plane management standards are effective for those areas
that are in a flood plane that suffer a 100redyear flood event storm event that's 11 in when you start getting into 18 22 28 inches of rain over a 24-h hour period all bets are off because at that
point there's no stone storm water system that's been designed that can accommodate that and also the fact is is that areas that have not previously flooded will flood are you guys working on a flood plane
study or something also in case we're doing uh Ben behind me can tell you how many basis says he's trying to get out in a lab next fight in five minutes right now there are 30 basin studies funded throughout the county through transform 386 four of those are
county uh initiated ones the remaining 26 are city ones um the county ones are looking at Spruce Creek uh Little Hall Creek Dand
Ridge and off the top of my head uh Deep Creek is the other one so those are large those are four of the large uh 16 large wershed basins that we have identified in the county the cities are doing any number of from a master storm
water plan of the entire city to localized subbasins where they experienced flooding to the during the storms and the focus on these watershed studies is identifying the areas that flooded and then coming up with
solutions engineering solutions or potential land acquisition to hopefully mitigate for future flooding and will all these come out just separately we have to watch the cities for those reports no actually um because of
the because they're all funded through transform 386 uh subreient agreements all that money we are the direct recipient of the money from the federal government it's difficult to do subreient agreements because of the federal entanglements
associated with using federal money so all of those studies are actually being procured and administered by the county and so uh not this meeting meeting two days ago yesterday
yeah it all runs together sorry on the consent item there were three there were three studies one was Spruce Creek with the county there were two Orman studies there's some there were some smaller Orman studies that you didn't see which were actually under the manager threshold so those have already been
initiated um but on the previous meeting there was a a a task assignment to one of our consultants that are going to do a large scale it's like a program management where they're going to specify what these studies what the
deliverables are going to be what they're going to utilize the same where we're going to basically be able to hand a set of technical specifications to each consultant that does one of these studies we're not giving all 30 to one to one consultant but we're going to
hand them uh basically a list of specifications on how these studies are going to look so that they all kind of will interact with each other and the goal is to set up a sort of a central repository of all of these studies um so that because they're utilized by
consultants and the public alike where where folks can go and look at them if they have questions just one just one comment is someone who watches an awful lot of council meetings and and we know how upset people are and
we have told them that our part of our storm water work and part of our analysis of of what's going on in the county to help them get out of the flooding problems that they're in are basin studies and I actually made a
phone call to someone who will remain nameless but to ask if those three agenda items yesterday were the basin studies because it seemed like they were but they had a different name and I I'm I'm just telling you from a PR standpoint
yes get around that yeah well Well part of it is we've set up uh we just went live with a flooding and storm water website at the county i've been I've been told that we have to see public works I kind of we've always viewed ourselves as like the umpire or the
referee if you know our name it means we probably screwed up so to to get to get out of that mindset you know I've been told that we've got to get better at PR and talk about what we do and how we do it and all the good things that we do
you know a big part of that was canal maintenance which was touched on yesterday and and uh you know there was a perception that that wasn't being done and and that's a it is being done and it's being done well and it's a fight that we're fighting but um so we are
going to we have gone live with this website that will basically be uh kind of the front page for a lot of the you know there's some news and and things like that in fact the Taylor Road study that was ongoing just got published there yesterday so um you know we're
working on getting the word out on those kinds of things um one thing we're going to start doing is and it's part of our capital projects update is is updating uh all the the flood studies and projects that are going on and then we're also going to be pushing people to
that website using all of the social media and all that fun stuff to try to make people understand of all all all the things that we got going on now to your point um you know I I've tried to say this flood projects and watershed
analysis all those kinds of things take time you know because I've had people say well wait a minute you know hurricane season's coming you haven't done anything well you know I've had projects from you know the '09 rain event that didn't get finished until 2016 you know so I mean that's how long
these things take to go from you know identifying the potential solution to design permitting land acquisition all those kinds of things to get done some can get done faster some will take longer depending on the size so um you know we're working as fast as we can and
in addition to those 30 studies there's 18 projects that are funded through transform 386 when we're going out for round two to the cities that didn't receive funding the first time so there's a lot of you know like anything there's a lot of stuff in the works but once it starts rolling it'll be a
continuous process anything else um just in terms of the next meeting which is May 7th right um we talked at some point about if we're going to have comments that we want as part of the backup that staff would need them at
least a week before is that still true i want to give people deadlines so the week before that would be April 30th for any comments that we want as part of the backup on the draft changes yes so any comments that you
want to send out to the whole group as a part of our email that we normally do make sure you give that to us the week before because we send out your packets the week before right so I have to have them before then yeah that's what I was going to say give us enough time then to review to meet an April 30 deadline
okay with that we are not today i want