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[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] 2025 hearing for the Land Planning and Land
Development Regulation Commission is now called to order. And if I could please get everyone to silence any audible devices that you may have. And if you could please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America. To the
republic for which it stands. One nation under indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Good morning everyone. I'd like to thank you for joining us this morning. And Miss Summers, could I have the roll call, please? Good morning.
Mr. Harrison present. Miss Craig present. Miss Shelley here. Miss Bush here. Mr. Sixma. Mr. Costa is absent. Mr. Mills here. Thank you, Miss
Okay, let me see. We do not have any. We're going to postpone having the minutes today. So, we're going to move right on into discussion here. If anyone would like to speak for against any of the cases being heard today, if you could please fill out a
form at the back of the dis and hand it to what's her what's her new to Miss Summers to my immediate left and uh we will be limiting you to a threem minute time limit. After the
comments have been heard, I will give the applicant an opportunity to address any concerns the speakers have and answer the questions the commissioners may have. And at this time, I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Sora for legal comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And this is for uh members of the public as well
as applicants that decisions by this body on special exception cases and cases which reszone real property from one classification to another pursuant to the zoning ordinance are recommendations only to the county council and do not constitute a final hearing. New evidence may be present uh
may be introduced at the county council public hearing. However, decisions on variances made by this body constitute final action subject to an appeal to the county council. And what that means is that the that no new evidence may be presented at the time of the county council public hearing on the appeal. An
agrieved party that appeals such decision is um confined to the record made before this body. Hearings by this body on reasonzonings, special exceptions and variances are quasi judicial in nature, meaning that this body is acting more like a court and
must take into account all oral, written or demonstrative evidence presented. Their decisions on these cases must must be based on competent substantial evidence in the record and competent substantial evidence has been defined as that evidence a reasonable mind would accept as a poor conclusion. Thank you,
Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Sora. And while on legal comments, I'd like to ask the commission to disclose for the record any exparte communications that have occurred before or during the public hearing at which a vote is to be taken on any quasi judicial matter. And I'll start with Mr. Ursma to my
immediate right. But I have none, sir. That's correct. None. None. None. None. And I have none. Okay. Do we have any items to be continued or withdrawn? Okay.
Okay. And we don't have any unfinished old business. So, we're going to move right into our new business. Miss Shelley, could I get the first case read into the record, please? Yes, sir. Case number V-25-031, application of Hope Hubard, owner
requesting variances to the minimum yard requirements on A1 zoned property. Thank you, Miss Shelley. And this is Miss Tuckers. Good morning, members. Uh so the
applicant is seeking five variances uh for a proposed 3,211qt single family residence and a 15,000 square ft detached metal building. Uh variance one is to reduce the northern front yard setback from 100 ft
to 80 ft and 9 in. Uh variance two is to reduce the western front yard from 100 ft to 40 ft. Variance three is to reduce the eastern sideyard setback from 50 ft to 34 feet. Uh variance four is to reduce the
eastern sideyard from 50 ft to 46 ft and variance 5 is to reduce the western front yard from 100 ft to 42t 9 in. Variances 1 through three are for the proposed single family residence and variances four and five are for the proposed accessory structure.
The property was previously developed with a single family residence that was demolished in 2024. Um there is a right-of-way easement located to the north and west yards that make this a corner lot uh and also reduce the buildable area for a proposed
single family residence. Uh environmental reviewed uh the variance request and had uh no comments at this time. Staff recommends approval as it meets at least three of the five criteria for granting a variance and recommends two conditions.
Thank you, Miss Tucker. Any questions for staff? Hearing none. Is the applicant present? Would you like to come forward? Yes, ma'am. Good morning. And could I get your name and address for the record? Good morning. It's Hope Hubard. Um it's 5883
Winota Road, uh Dailyon Springs. Okay. You've heard the staff report. Is there anything you would like to add to that? No, sir. Okay. Is there any questions for the applicant? Okay. You can have a seat. M. Do we have any public participation
forms for this case? No, sir. Okay. We're going to close the floor for public participation. Open up for commission discussion or a motion. I'll be glad to make a motion. Go ahead, Miss Shelley. That we approve variances to the minimum yard requirements on
prime agriculture A1 zoned property subject to the STO to staff recommended conditions. I'll second. Okay. I got a motion on the floor from Miss Shel to approve variance 2531,
the four variances with the two conditions, and a second from Mr. Ersen. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.
Miss Shel, could I get the next case, please? Yes. Case number V-25-034, variance to the minimum yard requirements on urban single family residential R3 zoned property. Thank you, Miss Shel. Miss Tucker, this one's yours also.
Thank you. Um, so the applicant is requesting a variance to construct a 1,350 ft workshop on a parcel with an existing 2759 ft single family home that was built in 1974.
Um due to the home being uh set back 68 feet from the eastern front uh property line, the rear yard is limited to 59 ft, leaving 39 ft of buildable space after the required 20ft uh rear yard setback
is accounted for. With structures over 500 ft, they are subject to principal uh yard sorry a little nervous principal setback requirements. The proposed workshop will be placed 8 ft from the northern property line and 12 ft from the western
rear boundary. Uh staff recommends denial of the variance as it failed to meet the criteria. Uh but there is uh conditions if the commission chooses to approve. Okay. Thank you, Miss Ducker.
Okay. Any questions for staff? Is the applicant present? Would you like to come forward, sir? Could I get your name and address for the record? Charles Mason, 1174 Tatum Boulevard, New Smyrna Beach. Okay. You've heard the staff report. Anything
you'd like to add to that? Uh, just just aesthetically, it's going to look better in the backyard. And yes, I could turn it sideways, but then it's going to block the rear window of the house. And I could probably put it in the front yard, but that's just going to be an
eyesore when people ride by. And uh I'm just asking for eight feet. Okay, that's it. All right, Miss Bush, you had a question? I do. Um on the survey, there's a dirt driveway. Does that go to
a property that you have access to? That is a a joining lot. Okay. But and you own that joining lot. Is there a reason you couldn't put the structure on that lot? Um, I'm just saving it for a house that it was all bought by my father and it was for for all of our k for the
kids. Okay. Um, are you removing any trees to construct this building? No, she already she uh is her name Lindsay. I think she already came out to do the Yeah, there's no sight view. No, no trees were there. Okay. Um, and then can
you explain why the workshop needs to be so big? Why you couldn't make it smaller in order to meet the sideyard? I just wanted to get half of my square footage of the house. Okay. So, it has nothing to do with the need for the size of the building. I mean, I could make it smaller, but I have uh there's a lot of
stuff in the house and my father built it and I'm never going to sell it until I die. It's going to get handed down. So, understood. Understood. I just didn't know if there were cars or other equipment or things that you're parking. The main reason is I have a couple of cars that I'm going to put in there, too. Okay. Thank you. And it it really would be
like I was thinking for a motor home future if I wanted to put it inside and have it stored. Okay. You know, that way it was undercover, but that's it. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay. Miss Summers, do we have any
public support for this? No, sir. All right. You can have a seat, sir. We're going to close the floor for public participation and open up for commission discussion or a motion. You know, I I'll go ahead and make a motion on this. Uh, go ahead, Mr. KZ25034.
I'll make a motion for approval with staff one recommendation. Second. Yeah, I got a motion on the floor to approve variance V25034 from Mr. Sixma with the one condition and a second for Miss Shel. Any
discussion on the motion, Miss Bush? Yeah, I just have concern. I think the applicant could make it smaller. I think he could do um other things in order to to not support the variance. The variance doesn't support all the tests
that we put it through. So, um I'm not in support at this time. And and I'm uh feel the same as Miss Bush. um very concerned about uh going to the one uh how many how many um
criteria do we allow to be uh ignored and still pass. I'm kind of concerned about where it leads in the next case. But anyway, that's I do have some concerns. Thank you. Okay. Any other discussion, Miss Craig?
I also have an issue with the size of it. seems like it's oversized for um the lot and the whole project. Okay, Miss Tucker, what is the total lot coverage on this? Just one moment.
While she's looking that up, go ahead. While she's looking that up, I what what I look at a lot of times on these is just is how much lot coverage would be because on regular residential, Mr. Ashley, if you correct me if on this, he would only have to have five feet off
the property line. Is that correct? If the if the accessory structure were under 500 square feet, yes, it can be a five foot sideyard or rear setback. Yeah. Okay, you have that number, Miss Kelly. Miss Tucker, I'm finishing up the
calculations. I apologize. Okay, you'll have to speak from You'd have to come back up the mic. I will go ahead and recognize you. Go ahead. What was you saying? I can't use the other side of the yard because there's a septic tank there. So when you
say the other side where on the not the other lot that's not an attachment it's just it's a totally separate lot but yeah on the other side of the actual property there's a septic tank and drain field in the rear in the rear. Yes. Yeah. Which you're okay.
It's 19% 19%. Yes sir. And we're he's allowed up to 35% lot coverage. That is correct. So he's well within the meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet me meet meats of the lot coverage. Is that correct? Correct. Yes sir. That's my line of thought on this is because if it was regular residential, he'd only have
to well, if it was 500 square foot, he'd only have to have five feet off the property line. So, without any objection by the adjacent property owners, u you know, he like I said, he's only 19% lot covered. So, that's where my train of
thought is. So, thank you. All right, chair. If I may add, um, the house was also built well back from the front yard setback. So, if the house did move up 20 ft, this variance would not be required.
They'd be able to build within that rear yard setback. Thank you. Okay. Any more discussion on the motion? Now, we do have a motion on the floor in favor of approval. Uh, just want to let you be aware of that. So, all those in favor
signify by saying I. I. I. Any oppose? I. Okay. Motion carries 5 to one. Okay. Miss Shelly, could I get the next case read into the record, please? Yes, sir. Case
number V25035, a variance to the minimum floor area, minimum yard requirements, and accessory structure requirements on prime agriculture A1 zone property. Which one is that? For some reason, I don't have that. Oh,
there it is. Sink on here. Okay, Mr. Shams, this one's yours. Hi, good morning. Um just to start, this uh application did receive seven letters of support from adjacent neighbors. Uh two of those being the most affected
property owners. The applicants are seeking variances for a proposed 480 ft replacement mobile home, a proposed 400 ft wooden deck, and an existing 118 square ft shed. The subject
site is an atypical lot that is approximately 38 acres. It is located in a natural resource management area and is zoned A1. It does not meet the A1 dimensional requirements, but it was recently vested through land development with a lot combination as an unrecorded
subdivision. The site was previously developed with a 750 ft mobile home which was originally permitted in 1967. The site is within the historic Baxter Point fish camp along the St. John's
River. Um the site sustained hurricane damage and was removed and the mobile home was removed in early 2023. They are seeking to replace it with a smaller mobile home. The site itself is approximately 89 ft
deep from the uh front property line to the ordinary high water line. The lot width ranges from 59 ft to 121 ft. And at the location they are proposing the mobile home, the lot width is about 105
ft. The A1 zoning classification requires a front yard of 100 ft and side and waterfront yards of 50 ft. Uh based on the lot dimensions, there is no buildable area on site. The minimum floor area is also 750 ft, which is
larger than what they're proposing. So in total, there are seven variances being proposed by the applicants. Variances one uh one, two, and three are for the mobile home. They are to reduce the yard requirements and to allow a
smaller floor area for the home. Uh variances four and six are for the existing shed along the western boundary to reduce the sideyard from 50 ft to 75 ft and the rear yard or the waterfront
yard from 50 ft to 39 ft. and variances five through five and seven are for the proposed deck which are to reduce the sideyard and the rear yard. Um also like to note the old mobile home
which was significantly larger. It was about 750 square ft. Um based on aerial imagery, it did not meet any of the yard requirements. It was about 40 in the front, five on the east side, uh 35 from
the water, and 42 feet on the west side. And there was also a porch that was 25 ft from the water. Um so the new mobile home uh meets two of the yard requirements on the west and south, but it needs variances on the north and
east. Um, in addition, uh, the new porch is being located above an existing septic tank, but the the porch or deck is being designed to be moved or
accessed, so it will not be um, a permanent structure. Um, environmental permitting reviewed and did not oppose the application. The site is subject to a 50-oot upland buffer and must meet all environmental requirements of the land development code. Um, overall staff recommends
approval for variances 1 through seven as they all meet at least three of the five criteria. The site is heavily constrained due to its size and the applicants are making every effort to minimize impacts especially to the waterfront yard. Uh, staff recommends five conditions along with the
recommendation of approval. Okay, Miss Bush, you had a question for staff? I do. Thank you. Um, in the staff report, the um looks like it's coming from the environmental specialist talks about the
uh regional resiliency action plan that predicts flooding on the property. Um, and it looks like it could be the property could be inundated with just one foot of sea level rise. And this action plan predicts an upper bound of 4 and a half feet of sea level rise by60.
So my question to staff is how does this um impact one the use of the septic tank if this were to flood? What type of health impacts are we expecting to see in the St. John's River um and upstream um because the river flows north? Um,
and then second, I guess, and this is maybe a larger discussion, um, and I'm trying to find the resiliency action plan. I see that it was approved by, um, the commission or the council in 2019. Um, but what impacts does that have on
rebuilding future rebuilding properties that will be inundated by flooding in the near future? Well, I guess I'll try to attempt to address that. First off, as far as a resiliency situation, uh during the building permitting process because this
isn't a flood plane, the proposed structure will have to be elevated to meet the flood base flood elevation standard we have in our code. Basically, whatever the established elevation is be at least uh 2 feet, one foot to two feet above that. the septic tank situation
that is the Florida Department of Health because of the nature of the location any permitting will and design criteria will be coming from the state. Um my guess it'll have to be plus it'll have to be moved as far away from the water as it can. So it'll be in the front yard
area. Um it may have to go through a state permitting in variance process in order to locate. they have separation standards from sep tank and drain field to a water body. Um so that may require
a upgraded type system given location. But if the entire property is going to be inundated then where would they be able to move this? I I I guess I would want to see that information before approving a variance request to rebuild on the property. Well, I'm I'm sure
it'll will it be inundated sometime if we have a storm such as we had probably about uh 10 to 15 years ago where most of this area was underwater um uh two years ago. So I mean well the first major one that probably 200
seven I think or five was a major storm that affected this area but it has rebuilt u and because these are much older structures they are having to be rebuilt in accordance to the current building standards and that's where we're looking to design make sure
they're meeting the best information we have on the floodbased issues as well as the elevation for those homes. So, in the resiliency plan, does it mention anything about at what point do we not continue to rebuild on these parcels as
they continue to get inundated and destroyed in these hurricanes? I mean, these were questions that were asked during the LA fires, New Orleans Katrina. Um, you know, I I think we have to be able to ask this question because it does have impacts to other residents,
especially up the St. John's River. And I understand and and we are looking at a scenario where um you have an existing piece of property that is owned by somebody. Uh a lot of what the resiliency issue is concerned about is creating more intensive or more density
in areas. Uh we're basically we are replacing what was there. We're not trying to subdivide the property and create two building sites but a single. And actually, if I recall, this is actually was two lots and it's combined into one uh to accommodate and certainly
if there was common ownership, it would had to been combined anyway because of the nature of the zoning. Uh the A1 that's been in place since at least 1980. Uh so I don't have a good answer other than,
you know, we have existing single family residential lot. We're just trying to allow for rebuilding. I know a lot of resiliency and with the comp plan we're trying to limit intensity and increase density in these areas that are going to be have problems and I see the resiliency manager may be
able to answer that question as well. Miss Samantha West online. Good morning. Samantha West, sustainability and resilience manager for the county. Sorry, I just ran. Yeah. Okay. Um the regional resiliency action plan was adopted 2018 2019 by the
Valuchia County Council. In there are a lot of recommendation for ordinances which have been incorporated into our comprehensive plan to breathe. Hold on. Um we do not have spec specific regulations in our zoning ordinance or
land development codes at this time. Right now like Scott said it's just for increases of density or intensity. Um so for this property in the backer point area I believe right um it is all a repetitive loss area that means that if
I could breathe hold on catch my breath before I start talking um it's repetitive loss area which is identified in our um annual CRS audit for our community um plan that we have.
So that means that multiple properties within this area have had multiple flood insurance claims for the national flood insurance um policies. So we have designated as a repetitive loss area. We know that it repetitively floods. It is
an issue but we do not have anything within our codes right now to state that they have to build any higher than the one foot above the base flood elevation that is currently within the affordability code. Okay. Does that make sense? It does. Um, thank you. Um, I have some experience with this, but my I
guess my next question is, is is the county going to consider um adding these types of policies into the land development regulations in the future? And I guess my second question is, what is the liability if we approve this
today? Could the homeowner come back and say, "You allowed me to build here." And then there are repercussions later on down the line from a storm um from the health impacts from the septic tank and this body and the council approved that we you could build there. So what are
what are the liability and the repercussions? The reason I asked that is I dealt with the same case in Orange County and we had to sign all types of waiverss to say that the county that we could not sue the county that the county you know could come back and get damages from the property owner because they
were building in an area that was likely to experience loss. So the liability question I will point to legal to answer but the first question I can answer. Uh right now the environment and natural resource advisory committee ENRAC is looking at our flood hazard management
ordinance and updates to that. Uh they have been I think it's the third or fourth coming up on the fourth meeting we've been talking about changes to that portion of the code. their next meeting, which is July 2nd, we will be discussing um if we would like to incorporate an
additional freeboard within certain areas um like repetitive loss areas or those that are um potentially going to be affected by sea level rise as determined by a regional resiliency action plan um or those that are already affected by storm surge with certain
category storms. So they are actually looking at that at their next meeting to see if they want to do an additional just do two foot of freeboard or anything additional above that one foot of BFE right now. So uh I'm going to chime in and say one you can always be
sued for anything. Anyone can sue you for whatever. Um two the liability to the county itself is minimal. One these aren't county roads private. to this is an existing vested lot that has a an
actual had a unit on there. Um and you know uh rendering a property that had a lot um basically unbuildable or undevelopable has other liability aspects that are more concrete than you
know the the notion that oh you allowed me as a property owner to build something you shouldn't have allowed me to build something even though I told you to issue me a permit right it it kind of not doesn't make sense at that point there's a little bit of buyer beware there. Um the state is kind of
responding in terms of uh you know informing potential purchasers that yes this property has previously flooded in the past. So that's a new requirement um under the law. So people are buying into these situations
knowing that there is going to be a potential flooding issue if it was if it was uh previously flooded before. Can you answer that if if there were to be health impacts? Say the septic tank were to flood into the St. John's and there were to be significant health impacts
further upstream, is the county not liable for issuing the permit or the health department not liable? Well, that would be an a question to the health department. um they would have to sue on some you know cause that you you did not issue me a septic tank or you should
have issued you you know you should not have issued me a septic tank is is the well I'm not saying it's the principal property owner I'm saying it's other parcel owners that are suing because of the health impacts that they because they issued that permit it's it's downstream I mean the county is being sued right now for flooding homes by
other property owners right so it that's the same lines I'm asking ing that question as to what are those liability impacts if the county were to approve that and then somebody downstream were to say we don't issue we don't issue the the septic permit understood but you issue the building permit because we
have to because this is a this is a would be a buildable lot um if you don't issue the building permit you know that that exposes another sort of liability. So does the county have funding to purchase properties that are inundated
like this? We have a small lot acquisition program that is specifically targeted I think Sam works with Brad Burbaugh from our community um assistance department that yeah so the small lock acquisition program community assistance um our public works
department is also looking at acquiring properties that have been inundated or from repetitive loss um then we have other grant funding through FEMA through emergency management to acquire properties as well. So, the county is looking at those repetitive loss areas
specifically to acquire the properties um either just to have um just for storm water management purposes or for you know and when we get applications like this is staff directing these residents to look at these options because of the repetitive loss that they're
experiencing on this property for small acquisition or any of the grant programs that she just listed. or when people come in for a building permit, usually they want to build. Um, so I I can't speak on how the program functions or which properties are being
targeted that is not this department. Um when people want to construct on a property, we apply the land development code and the building code on it. You know, we don't suddenly jump in and say,
"Would you sell your property to us if people want to develop the property that's kind of not within the purview of of the growth and resource management department?" I mean, I would I would disagree, but okay, we'll we'll end there. Thank you.
Okay. Any other questions for staff? What I would like to say also too is of in approve recommendation of approval. You took into consideration personal property rights for an existing structure. Did you not? You you have to. It is a requirement of the state law
that whenever you consider any land development regulation or consider a development order, um you have the property rights element that we put in every single staff report. Correct. And also um I have my experience with the
septic systems. Uh this would be a raised elevated system depending upon the sole profile. I haven't seen that on this. So I don't know what the health department would issue but to keep it out of the water during flooding. they'll take that in consideration as
far as based upon the soil profile and uh the what happened in the past uh as far as getting it up and out of the water. Um now sometimes these mound systems are actually as high as the roof of the building. You know they raise
that portion up but they're not going to let them put septic system in a area where the soil profile shows that it's that it would be sitting in water. Chairman, I have one more question for Steph. Um, on the site plan, it shows
that the deck is going to be built over the existing septic tank, correct? And that the it's going to be a temporary structure that can be movable. That's correct. But if the septic tank is not going to be used, and you mentioned that it was going to be moved to the front yard and that that it could potentially
potentially. So, they could reuse the existing septic tank. We're not sure. That's up to the health department. I've spoken with them and they said that, you know, when he gets to this phase and he goes to permitting, they will assess whether he needs to replace it or he can use the one he has now, but that's not
determined at this point. Okay. So, the comment made um by Mr. Ashley is that it won't be moved to the front yard. We don't know that answer at this time. It could. We don't know that answer at the time. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions for staff?
Go ahead, Miss Craig. It says that the slab was laid in 2006. Are they going to be reusing the slab? For the shed or what are you referring to? Oh, that is for the shed. My bad. Sorry. I thought that was for
the house. No. Okay. Is the applicant present? Could I get you to come forward, please? We have a microphone on the if he would like to speak. There's a microphone right there. A portable microphone. There's a hand microphone right there.
Yeah. Speak. I will. Okay. Yes. My name is Robert Luing. Uh, could I get your address, sir? I'm sorry. Uh, you're fine. My mailing address is 3 what? 328
South Baxter Point MEMS, Florida. All right, sir. And we have been owners or joint owners of this property since approximately 1965
when my father bought the property and has passed through the family since then. It's what I would consider a heritage site. we are doing.
The only thing we are attempting to do is replace the structure that was destroyed in the hurricane. We're not adding anything to it with the exception of the porch being
slightly larger to give a little more room to accommodate the existing septic tank access. And basically we are doing nothing adverse
to the property or that hasn't been in effect since roughly 1965. That's all we're trying to do is maintain family heritage
without any detriment which the environmental study will go into great detail there that nothing adverse is being done and I'd be happy to answer any questions
you may have. All right, sir. Any questions for the applicant? Okay, seeing none, we don't have any questions. Do we have any public participation forms for this case? Do you want to speak? I filled out a form. I just wanted to say we really
appreciate your consideration of this uh Can I get your name and address? Oh, I'm so sorry. My name is Michelle Luking Sunman. Um I live in North Carolina at 1709 Bodwin Lane, Apex, North Carolina. Okay. Um I'm the daughter of Wanita and and Robert Luking. Um, and we greatly
appreciate your consideration, the work of the staff that has gone into this. Um, my parents take very seriously their obligations to the environment and have a deep love and respect for the St. John's River. I grew up going to this fish camp, uh, fished there with my grandparents, fished there with my dad.
Um, and we hope that we'll be able to continue to use and enjoy the property into the future. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Sir, did you have anything else you'd like to say, sir? No. Okay. And we don't have any questions for you. And
there's no public participation form. So, we're going to close the four for public participation and open up for commission discussion or a motion. I'll be glad to make a motion. Miss Shelley. I move that we approve case number V-25-035 variance to the minimum floor area,
minimum yard requirements, and accessory structure requirements on prime agriculture. one zoned property subject to five staff conditions. I'll second. Okay. I've got a motion on the floor to
approve variance V25035 one through the variances 1 through seven with the five staff conditions from Miss Shelley and a second from Mr. Ersen. Uh any discussion on the motion, Miss Bush? Yes. So, you know, I asked
all those questions so that I could truly understand what the impact would be to all of us as residents of Valuchia County and continuing to rebuild parcels that um continue to get inundated by um flooding. And I think at some point we do have to answer that critical question
of are we really rebuilding in the same spot expecting a different result every single time? And because Enrach is looking into this currently, I just don't feel comfortable approving the variance at this time. I think that if the applicant were to be willing to wait to see what ENRACK comes up with and to
meet those criteria, I think would be the responsible result and should be what this body and others look for. Um, I understand private property rights. I understand wanting to use this this um piece of property for the uses that
you've been using it for for the last 50 years. Um, but unfortunately the environment has changed in the last 50 years and we're all dealing with the consequences of that. So that's my personal take on it. Um and so I will probably be voting no for this variance
at this time. Um if we could amend the motion to table it until ENRACH comes up with their response, I think that that would be beneficial so that they could then um build the structure to meet those requirements. But um at this time I just don't feel comfortable doing
that. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Bush. Any other comments? Yes, sir. Miss Craig, I have the same concern. And I think that um the regulations are are um in light of a a lot like this, although it looks like a lovely place to be. Um I
am concerned about the water rise and and the issues that that come up. So um I tend to be against this uh case. Okay. Anyone else?
Okay. I'm going back to what I said originally is that the um as far as the environmental situation is the contamination from the septic system, it will be a raised system. I'm almost sure of that being where it's located. Uh and
I'm I'm sure the health department takes all that in consideration of of the flooding. And as far as waiting um this was an existing structure. If this was a vacant proper property, it'd be totally different. uh criteria in my mind. Uh but it was an
existing structure. It was destroyed by the hurricane and these folks would like to get back to normal life. And if anyone's been uh put out because of a hurricane, you realize that uh you know it can be it can be m it can be detrimental and sitting around waiting
for an answer is not always good to the person's sanity. To be honest with you, um I've experienced flooding myself. I understand this exactly where Miss Bush is coming from, but unfortunately I just I'm kind of siding with the property
owner to get back to some sort of normaly. So I'll be voting for the emotion. So if anyone else doesn't have anything else to say, I'm going to leave it there. Okay. All those in favor signify by
saying I. I. Any opposed? I. Miss Craig, are you in? I Okay, he said I Okay, motion carries 5 to one. Miss Shelley, could I get the next case,
please? Yes, sir. Case number V-25-036 variances to the accessory dwelling unit ADU regulations on urban single family residential R3 zoned property. Miss Ray, this one's yours. Good morning. The applicant is
requesting two variances for an existing ADU. Variance one is to allow the accessory dwelling unit to be greater than 50% of the size of the principal structure and variance 2 is to allow the attached ADU to be forward of the rearmost point of the principal
structure. The owner purchased the property in April of 2024. The property is currently developed with a single family residence that was constructed in 1959. The western portion of the residence is one story and the eastern uh portion of
the residence is twotory. Uh the previous owners renovated the residence without the proper permits including constructing an ADU on the second floor. The current owner is proposing to renovate the residence. And with the proposed renovation, the living area of
the first floor will be approximately 1,695 ft. The existing living area of the second floor which is also the ADU is 960 ft which exceeds the maximum size of the 50% by 112.5 square ft square feet
or approximately 57%. The variance requests are for the existing ADU to allow the owner to renovate the residence within the existing footprint and bring it all into comp into compliance. Staff recommend
staff's recommendation is for approval subject to to two conditions. I'm available for questions. Okay. Thank you, Miss Ray. Any questions for staff? Miss Bush, can you um from what I read the staff
report and I read it a few times and I'm just so is it one residents in the single family the singlestory resident and then are there two dwelling units in the twostory? No ma'am. So it is it's a funny shape to Yeah, I was trying to
follow along. And so it's just two dwelling units. Correct. So the first floor is the principal structure structure or the primary dwelling and then there's just on the east side is a little um second floor and that's the ADU. Got it. Um and the entrance is to
the um is on the outside at the rear of the property for that um second floor structure. Okay, understood. Thank you. You're very welcome. Any other questions for staff? Okay. Is the applicant present? Good morning. Could I get your name and address for the record, please? Good
morning. I'm Rebecca Codle with Zevone and Associates, 300 Interchange Boulevard, Orman Beach. Okay. And I'm representative of the property owner. Okay. You've heard the staff report. Anything you like to add? Um, I would just like to add that the owner's intent
is to maintain the single family appearance. Um, the zoning does allow for an ADU, but the owner wants to maintain the existing footprint of the home. The entrance to the ADU would be from that staircase to the rear of the ADU.
And the first floor, um, as Miss Ray mentioned, is the the original existing residence. Um, and it currently has, uh, commercial style glass doors and windows. So, part of the architectural renderings that were in um your packet
that shows what the owner's intent is to also restore residential style doors, windows, and restore it to its original 1950s image. Okay. All right. Any questions for the applicant? I have a question, Miss Shel.
This is not uh actually before us, but what about that fence? The picket fence? Yes. Well, if you want to call it picket. Yes. So, the the owner has already started cleaning up. There was some um some garbage and things in the yard that
he's already begun to restore. Um repainting and restoring the fence is also an objective. Okay. I'm just asking because the fence is in really disrepair there. So, just just a wonder. Okay. Thank you. I know that's not before us.
Do we have any public participation forms for this case? No, sir. All right. You can have a seat and we're going to close the form for public participation. Open it up for commission discussion or motion. I'll be glad to make a motion. Go ahead,
Miss Shelley. Uh, case number V-25-036, variances to the accessory dwelling unit, ADU regulations on urban single family residential R3 zoned property be approved subject to the staff conditions listed on page five. I'll second. Okay,
I got a motion on the floor to approve variance V25036, the variances one and two with the two staff recommended conditions for Miss Shel and a second from Miss Bush. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I.
I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Okay, Miss Shelley, could I get the next case, please? Yes, sir. Case number V-25-037 variances to the minimum yard requirements on urban single family residential R9 zoned property. Miss
Tucker, this one jurors. Good morning members. The applicant's requesting a variance to allow a 235.5 ft addition to an already existing 1,826qt single family residence. Uh the addition is intended to create an
ADA accessible bedroom and bathroom for the owners. uh mother who is in a wheelchair. Property is zoned R9 and doesn't meet the minimum lot size, but is vested under the Orlando Heights subdivision.
With the uh encroaching setbacks, um with the current building footprint, they would only have 5.8 ft of buildable depth. Um, I did take the extra step and I sent the proposed site plan in your package to the uh building department for review and they did say that this is
the minimum square footage uh for an ADA accessible uh bedroom and bathroom. So, they are intending to give the least amount of encroachment to the rear yard as possible. Staff recommends approval of this variance with one uh staff recommended
condition. I'm available if you have any questions. Thank you, Miss Ducker. Any questions for staff? Miss Bush, I correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like there were four letters of support, but those were not included in our
packet. Am I not seeing those? Um, I would have to direct that to Miss Yolanda, but yes, you are correct. There were four letters of support from surrounding owners that were submitted. Okay. Because they're not in the packet.
we can discuss that with staff after the fact. Okay. Um and then I do have additional question and um you should know by now I'm going to ask this, but what's the impervious surface ratio on this property? It looks like it's pretty much completely paved over. Not that this ADU
is going to change that because it's on impervious anyway, but I'm just concerned that it's it's beyond the ISR of 80% at this point. Um, yeah. Um, give me just one moment. I calculate that for you. I had the lot coverage ready for you in case you asked, which is 34.8.
Right on the edge. Right on the edge. All right. Okay. Any other questions for staff? Okay. Is the applicant present? Good morning. Could I get your name and address for the record, please? My name
is Cheryl Bolseanne, 3804 Cardinal Boulevard, Port Orange, Florida. Okay. You've heard the staff report. Anything you'd like to add to that? Um, no. Only that um our mom really needs it that she's in a small bedroom. She moved in
with us three years ago and it's not working for her to get into the bathroom, which is the main reason for doing it. Okay. All right. Okay. Any questions for the applicant? Do we have any public participation
reports for this case? No, sir. All right. We're going to close the floor for public participation and open up for uh commission discussion or motion. Thank you. I'll be glad to make the motion. Go ahead, Mr. Ersen. To approve V25-037
as variance meets four of the five criteria. Second. Okay. And how many did we have any staff recommendations on this? Yes, sir. It's just one. One. One. That includes one. Correct. That
includes the condition. Correct. Yes. Right there. Mhm. Okay. We've got a motion on the floor to approve variance V25037 with the one staff condition from Mr. Ersen and a second from Miss Shel. Any discussion on the motion? Miss Bush?
Yes. I'm I'm just curious if it exceeds the 80% ISR, what does that do for this variance and their allowance to put in this um additional bedroom and bathroom? Right. So, um Mr. Ashley and I did take a look at the site plan. and it does
exceed the 80%. Um, however, this was that way when the applicants bought the property. Um, so the concrete's pre-existing to the early 2000s. They'd be developing on the same concrete. So, I'm assuming they would have to include additional support slabs for the new
extension of the building. Um, but they wouldn't be expanding past what is already existing of the over 80%. Would they need a variance to exceed the 80% because that is a land development regulation? It's not in the zoning code. So, it
would have to be dealt with at the building permit or development review committee stage. Um, and I don't know when the impervious area was placed because that that's
um so this would have to go to DRC, right? Right. So in order to address the ISR issue, they would potentially have to go to DRC for well actually it would be what a code
violation. Um are and can can I ask another question? Are you counting the pavers as 100% impervious? Depends. We don't know what the status of those pavers are. They could be pvious pavers. They could be impervious. Okay. Um, historically pavers are usually counted
at 50% because they do have cracks in them that allow water to seep through. So, I don't know if that is triggering it over the 80%. I think we'd be looking at all of it, but based on our review of the site, somewhere between 2000 2005, most of this is already added. Uh, and
the applicant is only building on top of what was already there. Uh so we're not unfortunately it's there but it's not increasing or creating new impacts or new lot coverage. So that's one of the things that staff recognize but without
it it was not creating a new uh issue if you will or new problem. Uh we did not bring that up as consideration and plus as uh Mr. Sorio just indicated it's really not a a a zoning variance because it's part of the land development code regulations not the zoning ordinance.
And uh based on your past uh questions and inquiries, we're trying to figure out well if that is the case um what would we how would we address it? And as indicated by uh the attorney um we'd have to probably go to the DRC and seek
a waiver. Okay. I'm just trying to understand the process. Not that I'm against what the applicant is asking for. I just want them to understand too that that they there will be an additional step beyond this because of that issue. Mhm. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Miss Bush.
Okay, we've got the uh motion on the floor. Any other discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Miss Shelley, could I get the next case,
please? Yes, sir. Case number V-25-038, variance to the accessory structure requirements on urban single family R4 zoned property. Thank you, Miss Shel. Miss Tucker, this one's yours also. You're a busy lady. I am. They like to
keep me occupied. Um, so there is going to be a correction to the staff report. Um, or I guess more of a clarification. uh we'll be voting as two separate variances, one for the screen enclosure and one for the pool.
Um so variance one would be uh to reduce the waterfront set back from 25 ft to 10.6 ft for the screen enclosure and variance two would be to reduce the waterfront set back from 25 ft to 13.6 ft for the swimming pool itself.
Um so with this lot it is on the canal in Edgewater. Um they have a special condition of a historic tree that's located on the eastern side of the property uh which would prevent them with the root system from developing the
pool in that area which is why we've requested it in the waterfront setback. Apologize too many pages. Um, so staff does recommend approval for this variance and we also recommended three staff conditions um as well and
I'm available if you have any questions. Thank you, Miss Tucker, Miss Bush. Thank you, chairman. Um, has staff inspected the specimen tree since 2003? So, I did speak to our environmental department. Um, they said that because
this is private property that they wouldn't have authority over it. Um, so technically the applicants could cut the tree down if they wish. However, Environmental was very happy to hear that they were wanting to avoid that and keep the tree. I believe they said it'd
be measured in a 40 in the arborous scale. In 2003, it was measured at a 34 or 35. Okay. Um, and you might not be able to answer this. Maybe this is a Mr. Ashley question. What was the reason for the increase in the setback in July of 2021
for a waterfront to go from 10 to 25 ft? Well, the the increase was to address um waterfront scenarios primarily our coastal areas um because the accessory structures could be within 10 ft of a
river and oceanfront area. And so we felt that that was not appropriate. It was really part of the intent of the previous code provision before the adoption of the 10- foot was greater. Um, but during
2004, the change was made to allow a greater flexibility. We found some issues with that greater flexibility because partly because it um conflicted with our environmental upland buffer requirement for any wetlands your coastal areas or we have typically if
you're not in our natural resource management area u you would have a minimum 25 foot upland buffer from any wetland area. So obviously having allowance of a 10-ft setback would uh conflict with that and if we granted that then we're setting up the
environmental staff to have to modify the the uh wetland standards of the code. So that was one of the uh arguments for making the change that we did. In this scenario, you have a this is a man-made canal. It's not quite the
same. It has some of the features obviously, but it's not the same as a a riverfront or water lakefront property where you would have the wetlands. This is an extensive canal uh finger canal residential community where concrete
slab docks run up and down the entire uh canal on each side. Understood. Last question, and I think I had asked this last meeting, but how are the inspections done for the landscaping and storm water requirements within the Indian River Lagoon surface water
improvement and management zone? There were some requirements there. And I know that that's not the purview of this and that's done during building permit inspections, but is that inspected by the building department or environmental permitting? It's done by the environmental pering permitting staff. When it comes in for permits, uh they
would have to include a um landscape and storm water plan that part of the permit package and that is then reviewed by the environmental permitting staff who uh go out and do an inspection of the site and do a preliminary initial inspection and
review the plan and then they'll do a u final inspection at the closeout of the permit. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for staff? Okay. Zap, Miss Tucker, I did want to add that our environmental
permitting staff did go over and review this. They didn't have any objections. Um, but they did notate that the class 2 permit requirements would be available and the applicant is aware of that as well. Okay. Thank you. All right. Is the applicant present?
Good morning, sir. Could I get your name and address for the record? Good morning. James Shanahan, 152 Aelia Road, Edgewater, Florida. And Danielle Shanahan, 152 Aelia Road, Edgewater, Florida. Okay. And if you could pull that mic a little bit towards There you go. Okay. You've heard the staff report.
Anything you'd like to add to that? No, I just want to say thank you guys all so much for the process. It was very efficient and everybody was very helpful, specifically Kelly and Yolanda. Okay. Any questions for the applicant? Miss Bush? I Is that specimen tree still
there and thriving? Yes, I have a picture of it. It's absolutely beautiful. It's over a hundred years old and we could never hurt it. Thank you. We got it cleaned up though. It was covered in vines, of course. Thank you. Okay. All right. Do we have any public participation forms for this case? No,
sir. Okay. We're going to close the floor for public participation and open up for commission discussion or motion. And I would remind you, we're going to have to take this into two different motions. Variance one for the screen enclosure and variance two for the swimming pool because each has different
conditions. Is that correct, Miss Tucker? Correct. It would be the same conditions for both. Oh, it would be the same condition. And well, how many of those are there? Um, it is three. So, it's uh variance is limited to the proposed
inground pool and screen enclosure with a total of 974 square ft. uh the requirement that the applicant is to obtain a class 2 alteration permit during the building phase and that any additional structures in the waterfront yard will uh require a new variance.
Okay. Thank you, Miss Ducker. So, it can be one motion. Correct. Well, they want it in two different You prefer two. Okay. So, go ahead and make a motion. I'll be glad to make a motion. Okay. That we approve case number V-25-038 variance one subject to staff
conditions. Okay. Second. Do I need a second on each one or not? Second. Okay. I've got a motion on the floor to approve variance V25038 for variance one with the three staff conditions
for Miss Shel and a second for Mr. Sixma. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. I'll entertain a second motion for variance two. I'll be glad to
make that motion uh that we approve case number V-25-038 variance 2 subject to staff conditions. Second. Okay. I got a motion on the floor for variance V25038 for variance two with this uh with the
three staff conditions for Miss Shel and a second for Mr. Sixma. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Okay, Michelle, could I get the next case, please? Have a quick question.
It's It's not on the But um your last name is different than it is on the application. I noticed that. Okay. Okay. That's why I just was looking at that making sure we got the right people. Okay. The right owners.
Thank you. Okay, Miss Shel, could I get the next case, please? Case number V-305, excuse me. B25039, a variance to the minimum yard requirements on urban single family residential R3 zoned property. Thank
you, Miss Shelley. And this is Miss Ray. Good morning again. So, the applicant is requesting a variance to reduce the west front yard from 30 feet to 15.2 ft for proposed twostory single family
residents. According to the submitted survey and site plan, the property contains approximately 16,233 square feet of wetlands on the eastern portion, which provides approximately 8,515 ft of uplands and buildable area on the
property. Uh, the applicant is proposing a 30 foot x 75 ft building footprint for the residents and an 11.8T by 30 foot porch to the southern end of the residence. Um the proposed home according to the
site plan will meet the side and rear yard requirements. As previously stated, approximately 66% of the property is wetlands. Um and they are they do have a required 25 ft upland buffer. Um environmental permitting reviewed the request and did state that
they had no objections as long as they met all environmental provisions of the land development code. The applicant is proposing the residence outside of the wetlands and their buffer and is proposing the twostory to further decrease the building footprint and limit the impact on the subject property. Uh staff's recommendation is
for approval subject to three conditions. I'm available for questions. Thank you, Miss Ray. Any questions for staff? Hearing none. Is the applicant present? Good morning, sir. Could I get your name and address for the record? Yes, sir. Good morning, everybody. My name is
William Prince. I live at 6020 Kaye Drive in Winter Haven, Florida. All right, sir. You've heard the staff report. Anything you'd like to add to it? I'm just uh I just want to say that it's been um my wife and I moved from Georgia a couple years ago to the Winter
Haven area and we've always wanted to live in around the uh Valuchia County area and uh I'm glad we potentially have the opportunity to do that. And I also want to appreciate the staff and working with me to go through this process. We're very mindful about the
environmental impact that the house would have. The house itself is only maybe a 100 square feet of it actually is in the wetland um buffer area and I've been I don't know how many communications I've had with environmental to you know um to make
sure that this all kind of works copacetic and to minimize the impact on the property. All right, sir. Any questions for the ask? Miss Bush, we'll wait a moment, sir. Not so much a question, just a a comment. Um, I having
worked with property owners that have had those constraints on their property, I appreciate the fact that you're bringing us something that is you're you're asking for the minimum variance and you are designing it with the property in mind. So, thank you for that. I appreciate it. You're very welcome. Okay. Do we have any a public
participation for? Yes, we do. I do have a public participation form and I'll give you a chance for rebuttal once they have spoken. Okay. Okay. I'll just Yeah. Could I get Miss Margaret Ember, please?
Morning, ma'am. Good morning. Get your name and address for the morning. Margaret Ember, 1755 Tatum Boulevard. All right. And you had a comment you would like to make? I do and I have some real concerns. Thank you, Miss Bush, for speaking for
Valuchia County residents. I've lived on this uh street since uh 1999, and my family has been there since 88. Across the street from the adjacent property, there are homeowners that are
virtually had their houses built right on the ground. That was what was required back then. I can promise you that that 35 ft easement holds water all the time.
We are the only street that doesn't flood. Josephine, James, Pearl are all underwater because of a housing development that went up on Mission Road with Dr. Horton. Tatum has
that wet land. I'm telling you, the homeowners, and there's at least six to seven of them, their houses are eventually going to be in water because if we approve this, there are several other lots between him
and me that are going to go up. The lady that lives uh owns the lot north of me contacts me all the time. What's happening with my property? You're 2 feet underwater. That easement, that 35 foot is all we
have that keeps that water from going in the road and across the road. I don't like the idea of having somebody building a brand new home at the edge of my driveway and then I'm going to take on all their
water. So, even though we have a new Simra address, we're Valuchia County. Someone has to speak up for us. I'm sorry. This gentleman is wonderful, but he bought that property knowing knowing it
was on the edge of those wetlands. Same as me, I lost 25 ft of my north corner. I brought in 100 loads of fill. My neighbor south of me did it and his
neighbor north of him did it. So, listen to your citizens, please. Thank you. Okay. Any questions for the speaker? Okay, you can have a seat. Do we have any other public participation? Yeah. Yes, sir. I'm going to wait. Just
let me see if we got any. No, sir. We have no more. Okay. Yes, sir. You can come back and for rebuttal. Ma'am, I appreciate your concern. You have to address the the members up here. I understand. You and her can have conversation after the show. Sure.
So just a little background about my about myself. I in Georgia I was a Georgia Department of Transportation certified contractor. I was a road and airport builder. Okay. So I did have a survey performed on the property and if
you look at the um the topography of the way the property um the way the property drains. Now, of course, we will have to raise the house higher than the than the existing road bed, but in the area that she's speaking
about from the edge of pavement to my property line is approximately 51 12 ft. Okay. the the if you look at the topography, the the water drains down the front of the area where she's talking about which
is which is the rideway. And then as it goes to the cuz that lot there's three lots and 150 ft wide. And right at the very end of the lot, there is a it's not a ditch, it's a
swell where the water actually drains back into the area she's referring to that holds water. This particular property, I'm going to say most likely over the years when they were building homes, they put fill onto this property. So
there's a clear indicator from where the property fill was put in and where the water actually is. It's about a foot. So all of the property, all of the water, and you know, you can believe me or not because you know, but you know, I did
this for for 30 years, but half a Tatum Boulevard across the front of my property will drain onto it. The um house um that's next door to mine, there's a swell there, so a lot of water will
drain between our two houses. I'm planning on maintaining that and then the water the remainder of the water that comes off of Tatum Boulevard that comes off my lot will follow that swell down the front property line in the easement and then trail back off into
the uh area that currently holds water. Okay. All right, sir. Uh any questions for the applicant? All right. We're going to close the floor for public participation. open up for commission discussion or a motion.
Well, if you fill out a form, you could Okay. All right. Okay. Uh any any discussion on this variance here this morning? I No, no, ma'am. No, we close close the
floor. I'm talking about the commission year. I'll be glad to make a motion to get it on the floor. Okay. Um that we approve case number V-25-039 subject to the staff recommendations on
page five. And how many of those are there? There are three. Three conditions. Okay. Okay, I got a motion on the floor to approve variance V25039 with the three staff conditions for Miss Shel and a second for Mr. Sixma. Any
discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Get to the next case, Miss Shel. Yes, sir. Case number S-25- Z008, a
modification of a special exception for a sea sawmill on prime Agriculture A1 zoned property. Miss Ray, this one's yours. The applicant is requesting a modification to add pallet board assembly as an auxiliary use to a
previously approved special exception for a sawmill. The previous special exception was approved by the county council in November of 2023. The subject property property is heavily treated and contains approximately 24.27
acres of wetlands on the eastern portion. The property is located within our natural resource management area and therefore has a 50ft upland buffer. The eastern portion is also located within our flood zone A. All sawmill activities
including the proposed pallet board assembly are located outside of the flood plane wetlands and their associated buffers. The sawmills proposed in two phases. Phase one will be developed with the already approved special exception and phase two will consist of the proposed
pallet board assembly use if approved by the county council. Uh the proposed hours of operation will remain uh 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Friday as previously approved. Uh the subject property um is surrounded
by agriculture and conservation lands and it does meet um the setback and landscape buffering requirements. Adding the proposed auxiliary use is unlikely to alter the character of the surrounding neighborhoods or be a hazard to individuals or to the public. Staff's
recommendation is for approval with five conditions and I'm available for questions. Thank you, Miss Ray. Any questions for staff? Okay. Is the applicant present? Good morning, Mr. Watts. Good morning. For the record, Mark Watts with the law
firm of Cobb Cole, 231 North Woodland Boulevard, Dand. Appreciate the opportunity to be with you this morning. Um this is really uh kind of a an evolution of a of a project you you previously saw. Um when we came through before u and you approved and the county council approved the special exception
for this sawmill. Um the intent was to actually assemble pallets offsite and ship the lumber out after it had been uh cut. Um since that time there was a modification in our client's approach. Um so they're basically requesting this modification to the special exception.
So they include about a 2500 square foot um structure on the property for the assembly of pallets. So we appreciate the time we've spent with staff uh working on this. Um I defer to their analysis. I think it covers the the criteria in the ordinance. Happy to answer any questions. Okay. Thank you,
Mr. W. So any questions for the applicant, Miss I have one question. Great. This uh 7A to 7P, does that include the um the pallet construction? Correct. That would be all operations and we are in agreement with all staff conditions. Thank
any other questions for the Okay. I just Okay, never mind. I'm not going to get into that. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Do we have any public participation
forms for this case? No, sir. All right. We're going to close the p for public participation. And now I'll entertain a motion. I'd be happy to make the motion to approve S25-00008 to the county council for final action recommendation approval with staff
recommendation conditions on page six and seven. Second. Okay. I've got a motion on the floor for Mr. Er to forward the special exception case number S250008 to the county council for final action
with recommendation of approval with the staff recommended conditions and a second from Miss Shelley. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.
Miss Shell, can I get the next case, please? Yes, sir. Case number CPA-25-00003 smallcale comp small smallcale comprehensive plan amendment from the rural R future land use designation to the urban low inensity FLU designation.
Thank you Miss Shel. Mr. James, this one's yours. Um the case following is also included. Do you want to read them both? Yeah, let's go ahead and the companion the PUD on this case. Yes, sir. read them both in so we can listen
to both of them at the same time. And uh case number PUD-2500-003, a major amendment to Valuchia Land and Timber Planned Unit development PUD. Thank you, Miss Shel. Okay, Mr. James, go ahead. Thank you. Good morning. Uh
the applicants proposing a future land use change from rural to ULI for two parcels that are approximately 19.15 acres. These are located um directly adjacent to on the north side of the existing blueand timber PUD.
The proposed change is to provide necessary entitlements to expand the existing PUD. Um and I'd like to note this PUD is the county's first low impact development project. Uh the inclusion of the new parcels
would allow an increase in unit count from the previously approved 121 to 169 and it would also allow the units to be more evenly spaced and the inclusion of lid practices. So, in May 2024, the
county council voted to approve the original request, which was uh to change 42.36 acres from rural to ULI and commercial. Uh the original approval was for 121 dwelling units and 36,000 square
ft of commercial along State Road 44. The overall residential density was 3.08 units per acre. The applicants proposing to increase the units to 169 but over a larger area which reduces the density to 2.9 units per acre. The commercial area
is not expanding. Uh the PUD is a contingent on approval of the land use change. The surrounding area acts as a transitional area between the more intense urban uses and dand to the east and less intense industrial agricultural
and conservation uses to the west. However, the area south of this site is comprised of the Sun Real Activity Center, which is targeted for high density transit oriented development. The applicant is also coordinating with uh Valuchia County Engineering for trail connectivity with the Springtoring
Trail, which will provide connectivity for the area's multimmoal network. The project will utilize city utilities environmental permitting provided support for this project due to the lid implementation. If approved, the 19 acre site would
increase its potential yield from 19 units to 76 units. However, this is overall capped by the PUD. The request is consistent with the comprehensive plan due to having adequate access to utilities, meeting urban sprawl criteria, and the proposed improvements to the transportation
network. The proposed future land use change on this uh 19 acre site would result in additional 760 trips for the 76 units. Um however, the PUD's total yield for
the entire um I believe it's 63 acre site is uh 1,635 daily trips. This project was reviewed by Felia County traffic engineering and a review of the TIA or traffic impact
analysis methodology is currently in progress. An approved TIA is required during the land development phase. Overall staff recommends forwarding to the future land use change to the county council with recommendation of approval to transmit to the Florida Department of
Commerce and uh Blush County Growth Management Commission. Uh now the PUD as you can see on the site this is their proposed plan. Um it was originally approved as land
timber about uh 13 months ago. They're proposing a major amendment and this PED will be amended and restated as Woodruff Ridge. It'll add the 19.15 acres at the north, expand the residential unit count to 169 and implement LI.
As stated previously, this is the county's first lid project that incorporates strategies from the lid guidance manual which was approved by county council this past May. LID is an ecologically driven storm water management approach to mitigate rainfall through vegetated treatments. The lid
improvements added to this project include amenized storm water ponds and rain gardens which assists in the filtration of runoff from imperous surfaces for safe groundwater recharge while also providing passive recreation for residents. The applicants believe
these improvements will mitigate many of the concerns related to flooding that have become prevalent in this area over the past three years. In addition, they also provide hammock gardens, a playground, a dog park, a gaze gazebo area, and an on-site network
of 8-ft vegetated trails that will connect to the spring to spring trail. The spring to spring trail segment is located along the northern and eastern areas of the site and will be a 12- foot wide paved multimmoal trail developed with Valuchia County. The applicant is
conveying the land for the trail to the county and the county will construct and maintain it. The project also meets the county's PD requirement of 20% common open space by blending the open space with their storm water treatment. The project is required to meet all environmental requirements
of the land development code. Overall, staff recommends forwarding the PUD to county council with a recommendation of approval subject to the master development plan. And I'm available for comment or question. Thank you, Mr. Shams. Any questions for staff
hearing? None. Is the applicant present? Absolutely. Good morning, Mr. Woods. I was wondering how you was going to address our concerns at our past meeting. Absolutely. It's good to see you all. Uh for the record, Michael Woods with Cobb Cole, 231 North Woodland Boulevard here
on behalf of the applicant for both the land use amendment and the PUD. Uh Yolanda, can you pull up the PowerPoint presentation? Uh I have members of the development team with me and specifically Sean Forier. He's a professional engineer with KCG Engineering. Uh he's been working on our projects in the area and has been kind
of the spearhead for our LI projects. Um, as the PowerPoint gets uh teed up, I just want to tell you it's um it's kind of a privilege on this project. Uh we were doing a lot of reaching the first goound because we didn't have LI standards in place. So, we're trying to
do the best that we did with our project. We were able to get this additional property under contract uh shortly after being approved. And what we've been able to do is, I think, improve across the board both from the environmental, from the uh amenities, and from the uh project overall. So, uh,
if you just want to pop that up to Okay. Uh, to to show full screen. I don't know if I've got the control there. Does it? Okay. Just want to make sure it wasn't me doing it.
I know. probably at the top left of the screen should pop up to the to show the slideshow. Okay. [Laughter] The excavation though was very terrible there.
Yeah. So, if you go to the very top of the screen, there's right there. Oh, well, except now that's got notes and I don't have notes. There we go. Thank you so much, Linda. I appreciate it. Uh, okay. So, uh, to give you an
overview of our application and what we're trying to accomplish for today. Um, we've secured the additional northern parcels and obviously we need the land use amendment to bring this forward. We had a a more in-depth conversation about the land use request at the first goaround, but we'll touch
on that a little bit um on our justification for changing from rural to ULI. The important thing here is with the PD, we're not coming anywhere near the full density under the ULI. We're kind of transitioning through that and coming out and I'll show you the breakdown of what our density is coming through. We do get a few more units with
the project obviously. Um but really what acquired what what drove the acquisition of this is um the flourishes that we can do with the LI now. Both because we have standards to hit and then both to be aware and abundantly cautious of the storm water conditions
uh more so over down on Orange Camp Road. This area hasn't really had that many problems, but it is on the tops of everyone's mind. So we're really uh aware of that. Um, obviously we have the um the bike trail. We already provided for that. That was a real focal point
for us getting the project through to begin with. Like that was from day one. We wanted to be able to provide for that. We've fixed some geometry here. We've expanded it and I think it's going to end up being a better route um with some discretion left to the county to kind of figure out the final orientation. We'll talk a little bit about that.
Uh and then obviously the enhanced control and integration of our uh wetlands. Um and as I say down here, we now have the staff's uh standards, but we also are coming with a project that is not in Valuchia County, but is in city of Dand, the same development team,
same engineering firm did that phase one has been finalized using the lands le standard. So you can kind of see a proof of concept of what we're looking to get here both aerial and on the ground. So we're we're real happy with this project. Uh again, 2024, this is what
was approved. focusing predominantly on the residential is about 42 acres give or take 121 lots. We have that commercial out parcel. Nothing's changing with that. Um but what we are being able to do is is bump up the number of lots. The sizes are staying the same, but also our tree protection
and our our open space. So we had about 16.69 uh tree protection before. It's bumped up to just over 20%. and then our open space. And in both of those calculations, including the TPA, we are up to about 38.97. And it's functional
and usable. Uh, which is a really great uh element of our L stuff. We were really getting out of the siloing of how we describe this is active area, this is open area, this is TPA, this is storm water. We give the engineers the ability to kind of make the project better.
Aerial photo. Uh, the orange area there is the uh existing PD. The blue square is the addition additional acreage. You can kind of see just for the frame of reference, you've got the Grand and 44 roundabout down the bottom right corner along our northern boundary. There's a
power line easement that runs east west. Uh to the west is Martin Marietta Materials. And you can kind of see the topography and we'll show you some of the historical photos here as well. Um our eastern portion of the property is where the lowlands where the wetlands
are and the focus of our LI. The western portion is all planted pine. Uh this was Valuchia land and timber. This was a timbering operation. So our focus and development of the home units has been on that western side to preserve the the natural vegetative conditions.
Original concept plan back in uh you know about 18 months ago. uh feels like we've been working on this for probably three or four years now which because we have um but again uh shifting everything to the northeast quadrant because of the existing wetlands and having you know traditional residential area there um
more of a kind of blocky distinction between tree preservation and open space because we didn't have the flexibility to kind of bump that up. what you have now with the concept plan. Uh if you kind of look at the the angled area on the left corner, that's where the line goes through and that's basically where
the bicycle trail was going to kind of shoot down through the Martin Marietta properties and then cut in. I I'll show a little bit of a closer actually you can see that there. That gray or the brown line on the top was the bicycle trail coming through. Even after we got that approved and getting into site plan
because we started going through site plan on this this first part before we had acquired the other property, we are having some geometry issues there. So, we've been able to resolve that historic photo there again 94. You can see clearly the wet area. You can clearly see the planted pine area. Uh but ever
present is the kangaroo or the over the gas station there. That's 99. Um and then for our topography, you can kind of see again the low area uh where we're focusing the storm water too. And then also in the top left corner low area as well we have another retention pond and Sean will talk a great deal about that.
So why we're amending we've secured the additional acreage. Um our density goes overall from 2.85 to 2.74. Um and we get more elbow room to expand our natural storm water. We're incorporating the L standards and hopefully will be a proof of concept for
other projects. That's the acreage there from the analysis to land use overview. Um the focus really on the first time for the ULI was our proximity to the Sunrail station, making our connectivity with the bike trail. Um and I'll show you kind of the the radiuses that we're
dealing with with that. Uh even on that first time through trying to focus on our our wetland preservation, uh you'll have more detail with that now with this new project. Um and then obviously we're allow we're able to change for residential development, but the overall density goes down. This is the analysis
for the urban sprawl. Again, focusing predominantly on our proximity to the to the Sun Rail station. I can go into that in greater detail if you have questions. Previously permitted, what is proposed? So, I'm going to go through what the PUD actually provides about the uh units,
the amenity provisions, um trail. We talked a little bit about traffic. Not much has really changed with that. The additional units don't really change that number and we're fairly along with DOT from our work on phase one. So we're real comfortable. Um we had a good discussion at the first go through with
uh Commissioner Dempsey and making sure that the lanes turn lanes were available and then Sean will do the low impact design. So this is just a breakdown of how we're able to get that density kind of reduced with the original acreage of residential, the additional acreage. So the new stuff on its own is a little
over 2.5. Brings us down to a 2.74. Again, max for ULI, which is really one of the lower residential densities is four. So, we're a little over half of that. Our amenities for the project, um, we we try to do like a full concept for this
to kind of be not berries and bunnies per se, but just the natural aspect of it. When I talk about a hammock garden, that's not, you know, pine hammock. That is actual hammocks being strung up. If you've been on the uh Stson campus, that type of thing. The vegetated uh pedestrian greenways are throughout the
project. um tree protection and natural vegetation retention areas activated so you can go through and utilize them. rain gardens, wherever we can put whether a bioil or rain garden for water attenuation, we've got that. And then we'll talk a little bit about that amenitized storm water trail space.
There's a defined term in the LI manual for the storm water treatment park. We didn't use that term in here, but when we go through approval at site plan, that's basically what we're building towards. Uh, and that brings in the storm water, both the pond and the wetlands. And then you amenitize it with
the trails, picnic tables, gazeos around there. So that there's it's more than just a big ugly retention pond. Then obviously you see some of the other amenities that we've got there, the gazeos, dog park still remains, all that good stuff, and the the decorative water fountain per request at our council
hearing. Um, and then there's the what I kind of call the soft elements of the LI standards. Uh, enhancing uh the the total amount of existing tree preservation, larger wetland buffers, common areas even when we don't meet the
criteria for the LI standard, we go as far as we can and provide for that in the LI. So for instance, when we're talking about natural vegetation, we've got natural vegetation throughout our common areas and we provide for on the plantings and bushes for that as well.
There is some limitations on the actual grass for the individual lots that we think good is better than perfect. So we were working through with that, but utilization of native plantings. Uh we also have a concept with two of our kind of walking areas where we're going to try to plant rather than a shade either
flowering or fruing trees. There's really no provision for that in your code provisions right now, but trying to provide some kind of Florida natural habit habitat, but a diversification of the product is what we're really trying to get with that. Um, and again, I can walk you through
where these items are located, but if there's a pond or or or any type of water retention, there's a trail around it. Um, gazebo uh near the dog park in the in the um I want to call the storm water area. has that northeast portion there. Um, if you go in through the
roadway on Grand Avenue and take that first right, that's where your tot is. And then you go a little bit farther, the dog park is is uh kind of central to the project there. We can zoom in as necessary. Um, and then these are just kind of the elements that you'll be able to see of
how we're going to implement it. Some of these photos are taken from that delay project that we've got underway. So, this is your entrance off of 44. This is probably the most traditional of our ponds. Uh it's based mainly because of the uh the topography in the corner along 44, but even there we have an
intervening uh bioail. That's that E, D, and E lettering in between the roadway and the pond with the trail around it. And you can kind of see in the enclosed circular image. That's what the bio swailes have been looking like on our other project. This is the access point
from Grand Avenue. Again, buffers all along Grand Avenue. Um and then with trails going through that back of house, back of of units, uh typically the bios or rain garden. Here we've got the traditional, you know, playground. Um again, our focus is
more on the active outdoor area, but we are still providing traditional playground facilities for our our residents. Um and then this is the example of when you have like the green stubouts on the ends of blocks providing for a bioail or rain garden. The definition is kind of interchangeable on
the LI standards. So at site plan they'll finalize that. And this is what I was kind of talking about with the uh um fruiting and vegeta or flowering and fruing kind of way in order when we added up the additional units uh to kind of show you there. We
had to we wanted to stretch out and break apart our our blocks a little bit. So you can kind of see the um left to right green areas that go through there uh for our plantings to just kind of diversify that and give you a a non-pervious cut through on the blocks
to get over to again the focus of the amenities is going to be along the retention area. Uh but even on that northwest quadrant you can get down um if you start at that northwest corner that storm water pond goes down to the wetland area. You got the trail that trail leads into the hammock and then the hammock cuts through the green area
over to the dog area. So, uh, again, walkability is going to be key, which should come up here shortly. Dog park there. And then that's an example in the bottom left corner of the hammock garden kind of concept that would go there. So, getting into our trail, again, this
was the peak uh uh amenity for our project, and I think we're really still happy with it here. We've uh buffed that up a little bit more. Uh, the trail will now run east west along our northern boundary. Uh, and I'll show you kind of how it connects to the overall plan. But
what we've been able to provide for here is um, see if I go here. Yeah, gazebo to provide for shade. Uh, picnic table there. We're going to have a bicycle workstand repair station. Again, this is open to the general public. The trail itself is going to be county controlled because we don't want that liability.
Um, but we think from an amenity standpoint and for the for the community. And then obviously because we'll have facilities out there, a water fountain. Having been on the trail up to Blue Springs with my kid two weeks ago, it was the first hot summer day and I hadn't been on my bike since January. I
bonked and uh I was really hopeful for a a water station there. Um so we're we're really we've been committed to that because it makes a lot of sense both for our project and for the county to make this be a a focus and feature for our project. Again, the final alignment, and
I think I can show you here, uh, is going to be dependent upon, um, really kind of staff direction. So, the benefit of what we have here, um, the northern boundary is pretty self-explanatory. There is a power line easement there as well, but we've got it down on our property at the moment, but we provide
for some meandering in case there's some spacing issues that we have to do when we're out there. um along Grand Avenue. Um I think the preferred well it depends what department you talk to, but there is some preference for the trail to cut through into our wood wooded areas and
then there's a preference to kind of just stay along Grand for kind of a simpler maintenance. It's going to come down to the final orientation for tree avoidance uh and trying to make sure we can have a meandering path that goes through there. Um either way, we're solving a really big problem for this area and this segment of the of the
trail. And I I talked a little bit about this this first time, but since we have some new folks here, we are continuing the trail. Basically, I I consider our anchor point the Sun Rail Station. Um county's been constructing the gaps, I'll kind of show you where those are. Uh trying to use the Sun Trail funds,
and that's the state funding for it. Um one of the problems or limitations with the Sun Trail, as I understand it, is once you get into an issue of eminent domain or a taking, you're no longer eligible to use those funds or there's some type of constraint. We are solving a huge problem for the county with our
project incorporating this. Um what our alignment does and and the alignment is originally dictated by Rick Wolfart's project to the south uh along Grand Avenue on the south side of 44. That's under construction right now. Grand Avenue is closed and they're doing the construction. They bring that trail up
along the west edge of uh Grand. It gets to the intersection with 44 and um and Grand. That's obviously a little bit of a of a challenge. you should get off your bike and walk it unless you're riding on the road. But then you pick up to us and what we're able to do is avoid
um the impacts to both Grand Avenue and Minnesota. I'm going to skip this one here real quick and I'll come back to it. These are all the units along Minnesota and Grand Avenue. And by bringing it along the west side, we're avoiding any driveway conflict uh with the houses on the east side of Grand.
And our orientation is going to cut behind the CND site that's there. And I'm going to show you that alignment there. But those lots 1 through 7 that's on Minnesota. Those that part of the roadway is prescriptive. So any expansion there to the north is a taking
onto those properties. Do not want to do that. There's really no feasibility for an expansion to the south because of the way that that site is configured. It is basically asphalt, sliver of grass, trees for screening, and then you're into the CND excavation site. So really
solving some problems there for everybody involved. This is uh the connectivity plan from the spring to spring trail maps. You've seen this before. I'm going to zoom in a little bit, but you know, this gets you all the way down to Lake Monroe Park to Lake Monroe. You can ride over the bridge, get into Sanford, downtown
Sanford, ride out to Titusville. You can do the same thing by our, you know, go north in Lake Monroe, take a take a right, head on down to the Barry Hall and then ride your way out to uh was it Gobbler's Knob and then out to Ostein and then either north to Edgewater or
south into Titusville. Again, I've only done about 40 miles in any one day. Again, I did it in August because I'm not a smart person. The gap that we have here is the one the county has been really working on very hard. So, if you look, you can see where Lake Bearsford is. That's the terminus. That's where
the uh banana tree plant is right now uh that uh that Ed and his gang kind of maintain. Um the county has been diligently working towards extending that uh connectivity. So where that circle goes and then the light pink to the middle, that's basically your Sunrail station. And so within the last
two or three years, we've gotten a couple projects to kind of fill that gap. Um to the bottom here in the pink and the purple and the green hues, that's a Rick Wolfhart project. Uh the portions of that are under construction already. That was a big mixeduse project with commercial single family town
houses and apartments. You can see in the bottom center in the little pink, that's your Sunrail station. So getting from there, the Wolforth project fills all that red line uh for the Sunrail station to get to 44. We pick it up and run it through there. Then as your frame
of reference again in the bottom left corner, you got three colors coming out of Sunrail station. The yellow is the configuration through either of those Pelum, I think it's called Pelum Square project. There's platted rights away that are out there already, but they're probably going to redevelop it. But either way, that's about a mile uh on
roadway to get to the roundabout. And then the other frames of reference is if you're familiar with the area, the red square is Emy's Timeout Tavern and then the blue or the purple square is the Stockyard. So, the connectivity for folks coming off the train to get up to those established restaurants, those
those things have been there forever. Um, it's more than just a new residential that's coming in, but that connectivity allows all of Central Florida to come into the Amtrak Sunrail station with their bikes and get on and then ride north. Then when you get to
our project, these calculations are more or less accurate. But what we've able to do now is the old alignment had to go north before you got to those two squares. So the the green area was a little bit shorter. You cut through to the west along basically what's the
middle of our property now. We had some potential issues with getting that little last jag of of north. So basically where the purple and the red meet. Anything south of that red line, there's a portion that's in conservation easement. And that was kind of a it was
going to be a little bit problematic by extending us farther in and onto the into the uh uh closer to the utility easement area. That utility easement carries on to the west. So that kind of removes some of the issues with that. You've still got to get the rightway uh
approval from that property in order to turn north at 0.19 miles. But then that orange strip uh is a separate project. It's got it's a larger lot subdivision that's already got vested rights in it. uh same development team is under contract to to acquire that and with that we presume running an e if that can
go through running an easement through the eastern portion and then that connects to the trail head where it dead ends on Grand Avenue right now. From there you ride all the way up to Delian Springs and it it it peters out basically by the fire station off of uh
11, but ultimately when FDOT comes back in and redo the Barberville intersection, it'll bring it all the way down and connect you to 40. So, our network, you know, it's an overnight success. It's taken 30 years. We are really focused on trying to fill in this last gap. Uh, and doing so so that the
Sun Trail funds can be utilized. Again, this is just the walkability from the center of our project. That that center point shows you where that dog park is is estimated. It's a little bit easier to see from there. It's about a 5minute walk radius from that. Um, we talked a little bit about traffic. I'm
happy to answer any questions you may have, but the 48 additional units from a peak trip hours is about 45 or 63 other units. We are still utilizing the same driveway connections from the first phase. There was some discussion about putting on a second driveway on the north, but again
to try to discourage traffic from going up that way, uh we've tried to prevent or tried to keep it where it was provided before. Um, the other thought process with our acquisition with the additional 19 acres is we have the ability to connect it into our project. Whereas if somebody else came in and
tried to do it more driveway connectivity, more kind of flow, and we're we're trying to direct that traffic down to our New York Avenue and then down to the lower portion of Grand that they can then access through the through the um roundabout. Uh these are basically the uh the
driveway connectivity uh still providing for the turn lanes. We're still expecting that through FDOT. Um, we had some conversations at the first first step through the at the county council on view corridor. We're great with that. I've just kept those slides in there so I don't lose those images when I go back
to county council. Uh, speed. So, storm water. Uh, this is the important stuff. Uh, just to kind of show you how we're utilizing this from a technical standpoint. Again, Sean is here with U KCG Engineering. He's been
on the on the peak of all the storm water issues both along Orange Avenue trying to figure or Orange Camp Road trying to figure out what's going on out there with some of the pre-existing projects and he's going to walk you through what we're doing with this site and then we'll pull up the the pictures you know to show the full concept and
then happy to answer any questions. So Sean, if you'd like to come up there. Hi, Sean Forier with KCG Engineering. I'm the civil engineer on the project at uh 1700 North Orange Avenue. Um so I've been working on this project for a while and uh so I could talk about this for a
while, but I'll try to keep it brief. Um it is an exciting project because of the le component of it. So that makes me want to talk about it more as well. Um so first just to talk about you know before I get into what we're proposing I just want to give a quick overview of the current drainage out there the
drainage patterns. Um you can see on the slide the LAR which is actually the clearest way to talk about it. Um the western part of the project slopes away. So all those contours you see to the west slope away from us. Um on the south end of the west there's an ex existing
smaller industrial facility but the rest of it's undeveloped. you have the train tracks west of that. There's a culvert or two going underneath the train tracks and then ultimately end up in the St. John's River. Um to the north is that facility he was referring to which actually slopes down into that facility. So there's no flow coming from that
facility onto our property. Um to the south is state 44 and beyond that is the Pelum Square project. Um souththeast corner there that's the uh gas station. On the east side of the property which is where we spent most of our time is Grand Avenue. Um and then just east of
Grand Avenue, there's a few homes over there. Most of that property, those contours are actually going away from our property. Um Grand is kind of a basin divide. There's some depressions over there, some smaller ones. Um so again, most of our time was spent in on that side of the property because Grand
was our our focus. Um internal the project, you can see it's marked by uh three depressions really. Um the most notable ones is the one in the northwest corner. the one in the northwest corner actually when it overflows um based on the contours in our survey we did a full
survey on this as well it looks like it goes to the west towards the St. John's River and then we have the big central one to the on the east side. And as you can see from the contours on that one, those contours do go up into that north property. So, I'll get into it more later, but having that north property
definitely helps with this design immensely because we can fully encapsulate that depression now and use it to our benefit. Um, so I'll get more into that in a minute. the uh getting into the proposed design now.
I go up or down on this. Yeah, that's a good one. Leave it. Well, yeah, that that one works. We'll just leave it on that one. Um so, you know, before I get into the components here, I'll just state that we did as we worked on our stormwater calculations, we did incorporate the new code that you guys
recently adopted. We have the um you know, we did additional borings per pond. We already had at least one, sometimes already had two per pond, but now we have two for every pond. Um, we are incorporating the 6 in above the estimated seasonal high water table for our store starting water elevation. Um,
we're trying to avoid raising ponds or putting raised ponds on the perimeter. So, they're cut into the natural ground, not raised. We're not creating empoundments on the perimeter of the project. Um, but one of the things we were trying to do was trying to mimic existing conditions as much as possible.
One of those things is to put your storm water features where there's already existing low points. It's one of the reasons why you see the road kind of bend around like it's doing because there was an existing low point in that northwest corner. And by utilizing those same places, we're putting water in the ground where water's already going in
the ground. And then you combine that with the LED swailes that we're adding throughout and we're trying to mimic existing conditions as much as possible. So the site is made up of those LED swailes and rain gardens along with some traditional looking ponds, although they will be landscaped and enhanced. Um,
we're trying to utilize natural depression areas wherever we can, and I'll talk about that more in a second. And then we're utilizing the wetland in the on the east side, which is a part of a bigger natural depression as well. Um, most of the again putting the pond in the the low areas does mimic the
existing conditions, but then we're also most of our flow is going through one of these LED systems before it gets to one of those natural depressions. Um, and again, that just it increases the infiltration throughout your site instead of just dumping all the water in
one single point. Um the and then there's also a few other smaller depressions that are kind of softly highlighted on this exhibit that we're going to utilize as well because they're there and I'd rather keep trees there and utilize what's there. Um which is one of the also the benefits of
utilizing the natural depressions is we don't have to clear trees to build a pond. We have something that's already there functioning as storm water retention but it's naturally vegetated and looks a lot better than a pond. So, um, going back to the north property,
um, you can see that there is a pond we're showing up there, but by adding that north property, it did allow us to completely utilize that wetland and the larger depression that it is. Um, which helped us saved a lot of trees and
create a real amenity on this project. And it also allowed us because it is a large depression, we're storing water far beyond what the minimum storm water requirements will be. Um, now to utilize that wetland, it does it is difficult. You can't just dump storm water in a
wetland and say it's a storm water pond. Um, fortunately we've done this quite a bit and we just did one recently which Michael will show you in some pictures. So we um, we have some good data on these types of things. But one of the things you have to do is you have to establish the hydrop period of a wetland. um which basically is trying to
determine the yearly fluctuations of a wetland because you don't want to overhydrate or underhydrate it. You want to stay healthy. Um to do that um we do it a couple different ways. One is we have an environmental consultant biologist go out and set pins in the ground where he thinks the water gets up to on a year yearly basis. We then
survey those pins to get an average elevation. We then take and we model that wetland um with all the off-site basins going into it, on-site basins, off-site basins, and figure out how much that water stages up to in the existing condition. Um then we compare that to
the pins and if it's close, then we know we have a good model. We then have to model the proposed condition and we need to stay within a certain range of what that existing was because again we don't want to overhydrate it or underhydrate it. Um and then the other thing is we have to treat all water before it goes
into it. Meaning um no water can be directly discharged to that wetland. We have to run it through our swailes and our system and do calculations on that before it goes to that wetland. So all that to say, you know, it it does take a little bit more engineering than just building a what people call a big ugly
retention pond. Um so you know, as you can see on the screen, you can see some ponds. I'll real quick say that since we've had more time on this, you know, that system worked. We fully engineered that system, but we've had time to not put the pencil down and we've kept making it better and better. So, as an
example, the big uh blue square kind of on the east side north of the wetland, um we're trying to actually eliminate that and expand our LED swailes to fully treat the water so we can fully utilize the depression um that is the wetland
just south of that. By doing that, we are able to save even more trees, which again becomes a feature. And um so and just to focus on that for more I'll give you some quick elevations so you can show we've been working quite a bit on this. So grand is around elevation 35 at
its lowest point adjacent to our property. That wetland which is again been our focus. Um the bottom of that wetland is around elevation 20.2. So there's actually 15 ft of storage in there currently. I actually went out there this morning just to see there's a little bit of water but not much. So you
essentially have about 15 ft of storage in that depression which goes up into the north property. Modeling the mean annual storm, it came out to 22.5. So again quite a bit lower than grand. The hydrop pins that we set
were 22.3. So that's good because 22.5 to 22.3 that's essentially the same um in engineering for that type of thing. the mean annual storm which we modeled and it it was a very conservative model which I'll tell you the reasons in a second. We modeled that wetland with all
the homes going to it going through the led swailes first and it comes out to 23.2 which is about 710 higher than our existing model. So that is well within any tolerance for keeping that wetland healthy. In fact, it'll probably be more healthy because it does uh look a little
dry at the moment. Then we modeled the 100red-year storm and it came out to 30.3. Again, a very conservative model, which I'll go over the reasons why it's conservative in a second. 30.3, which is over 5t about 5t lower than um Grand Avenue. So, the
reasons it's conservative is because we didn't run infiltration during storm. We just took the straight up volumes coming from the site and put it in that hole. There's always going to be infiltration during storm. So, that 30.3 for 100ear storm will not be 30.3. Um secondly, we are starting this uh starting water
elevation six higher per year new code which makes it conservative and I'm good with that. And then the last thing is Pelum Square to the south. There's about 13 to 14 acres that in the existing condition we think flow onto our property. Now some of it gets captured by some small depressions but we ignored
those in our model. We assumed it all went to that wetland. The Pelum project ultimately will contain all their storm water won't have any discharge to That's going to be 14 less acres going to that depression when all said and done. But our model currently has that in it. So
that 30.3 5 ft lower than grand is still it still has that volume going to it and our calculations. Then the last thing I wanted to do to make this even more conservative is we have no model that would show this emergency overflow ever
having water going over it. But because we had a portion of our project that discharged to the west and there's nothing to our west. I'd like to if I can I'll try to do this but get an emergency overflow somewhere on our west side of our project that basically allows the central depression if it ever
got up to you know close to Grand's elevation it's going to overflow and go to the west before it ever touched Grand. Our goal is to make it bulletproof, you know. So, we're very conservative on design. And then if there's some crazy storm event that's, you know, 10 times bigger than 100 event, which hasn't happened, it still
won't touch Grand hopefully. So then because we did this with a central wetland and really made it part of our design and there's a lot of good trees in that area as well, we as Michael was talking about, we want to adminize it. similar to another project we did, but in my opinion, this one's taking what
we've learned and made it even better. So, it will be a feature of the project. And you'll see in the pictures why, cuz going out there, I was actually surprised how nicely things come out when you use a wetland for your main amenity and use it for storm water. So, um, with that, I'll turn it back over to
Michael and let him show you some pretty pictures. So, I'll be very brief here, chair. Um and mainly what I want to reiterate to you is we are very fortunate with this site that LI is able to be utilized in the way it is. The contours are helping out. We have wetlands with wind within
which to work. We have a large enough size and we've got a team that has the familiarity with it. It is not the end all beall for all projects. If you have a high and dry project, you may be able to incorporate some LI. But I I I think this is we are going to show you what we think is a really really good. I just
don't want I want to measure your expectations that not all projects are just going to have the elbow room and the ability to kind of deal with this. But we think this project will be able to take what we did for the larger project over in in the land at at Trinity Gardens. But um so also to
emphasize in incorporating this you just hit a lot of numbers at you right it is a much more complicated engineering exercise is a much more complicated reviewing exercise. It's a much more complicated management and m maintenance exercise. So just keep that in the back of mind. You guys are on this on this
pling board. You deal with a lot of these projects. Just realize the full scope of what is being asked of when we implement this on other projects too. Okay. So uh this is phase one of Trinity Gardens. Um to give you a frame of reference, this is old photo in 2021. Uh the yellow road on the right hand side
is Kepler MLK just south of State Road 44 where we are going to have a brand new roundabout. the cleared out area there in the bottom of the screen, that is the Bears extension and that's going to run from MLK West to Blue Lake Avenue. That is currently under construction as well. And you'll see
that there's some asphalt in here, but as of 2021, it wasn't there. If you also see the cleared area kind of on the north side uh of that cleared area on the bottom, that's where the multimodal trail is going in um for this project. It's about 8/10 of a mile running along the north side of the Bearsford
extension. It will ultimately help connect to the property that the county and the city bought from the fords for the park down a little bit southsoutheast on Kepler. Frame of reference, there's a square pond that is a county right away storm water retention pond. You'll see how that
looks in real life. And then you can see clearly both a dried out wetland and then an even more dried out wetland in our area. And I'll show you how we incorporated this into our project. So this is basically phase one of Trinity Gardens. This is the roadway on the bottom of
your screen. That's Kepler MLK. The driveway on the right hand side is our entrance. And kind of frame of reference, right where it says Trinity Gardens, that's basically where that driveway cut is. If you see in the top left corner is a little car, that's the first bit of pavement for the Bears extension. So you have your frame of
reference. So that pond in the top left corner of your picture, that is your county retention pond. And then what you have here, I'm going to toggle back and forth. I want you to focus first on the foreground, the kind of reverse Dshape, the little small pond, and then obviously all the wetlands. Here's a
better kind of view of how it kind of gets staggered through for the project. Obviously, you have a big pond there for volume and attenuation, and obviously built to hold a great deal of water. You have a step down to a smaller also engineered pond. Again, Shauna kind of
talked about you can't discharge anything directly into the wetlands, but then you are able to transition that into the wetland area after it it um it it sits. Same picture or same location, but just now showing how a traditional
pond steps in and goes into the wetland area right there. Um and then this is to kind of show now how do you incorporate the units and the building footprint in there. So again, from a frame of reference, top of the picture, dead center is the intersection of Barisford and MLK. MLK is running from the left
corner to the right. Um the clear dirt area, the very top of the property. That's the PIS project on the south side of Beerisford. And what you can see in the foreground is the first bit of residential units in our project for phase one. And then kind of in the in the background, there's that little
loop. We'll show what that looks like, but we have units that go in there. And then along the back side of Beersford, I want you to kind of focus in here and you have your building uh footprint. You've got landscaping obviously, you know, the traditional landscape that you would have for a subdivision, but then
the vegetative trail that runs through and you can see the transition between engineered pond, wetland. You have another engineered pond in between there, wetland, and then the trails walking through there. Uh this is again showing we're going to zoom more into this uh footprint there.
But again, wetland area, wetland buffers, engineered pond, they all kind of work in conjunction bringing the trails into the area. And then you have some hardscape there. Um with this picture, we're going to come from the other angle as well, but you can now see the back of where the units are going to
be. In the bottom right corner, you see the vegetative trail that goes through the engineered pond. Obviously you you can see from the moisture and where the grass has been planted where it can go up to and drop down to. Then you see the trails that go into a more traditional amenitized area and then into the more
you know naturalized wetland area. And this I think gives a really good idea of what our focus was on that phase one. So you see improvements and homes that will come through on the bottom of the screen. The left is is again that little pad that we saw first. Our entrance is on the on the far left off screen. And
then you've got in the heart of it wetlands, tree preservation, uh, and storm water all kind of working together for an amenity. This is what it kind of looks like on the ground. And when I talked about the bioail entering State Road off of State Road 44 for our project, that's
effectively what you're looking for is like an engineered trail. The rocks are there to handle water. There is a weir underneath that trail path so that as water fills in it can flow into the weir and get conducted over to some of the other ponds.
This is that same view uh or aerial view so you can see that trail and as you travel north on the screen um into the more vegetated area. This is kind of the the end all beall of what we're trying to do with the LI. You've got traditional wetland areas on either side
and then you have a engineered area in between there also will have a weir but that's one of those situations where the bioail is wetter and is allowed to have that capacity and then as that fills up it'll fill into that weir and discharge into some of the other wetland areas. But then you're able to walk through as
a pedestrian onto that trail and go through. Then at the top left corner you see one of the more traditional storm water ponds. So it's all working in conjunction. And then here, you know, just as we you have with any storm water pond, you can see this is kind of fairly new construction. You have a retaining
wall because I think that goes into the back of one of the units. Um, and then obviously the soden grass, but you see all the trees that were able to preserve in the natural that are there on day one. But you will have some engineered stuff that is going to take time. That grass will grow through and continue on
to to um to full full uh growth grow out. But this is what the the winning thing is, right? Day one, when you move into the subdivision, because we're able to incorporate open space with storm water, this is the view on the property. You
can kind of see if you squint in the far back, that's Kepler MLK in the far distance there. So that's a view from one of the retention ponds. It's better for kind of the environmental and our storm water capacity, but it's also from our standpoint, and again, this is why not every project works. You need to
have that on premises to be able to amenitize it. But that's day one for that for the folks that move in on on the Trinity Gardens and we expect to be able to do this if not more on the current project. But this is what LI when it's working the right way. This is
what it's supposed to look like. So I really appreciate your patience with this, but there's a lot moving on with this. We're very proud of this project and we have been I'd be remissed to say we have been in constant conversation with staff both planning and environmental working through with them
asking questions as ENRAC was working through the guidelines as the LIB standards were you know what does this definition mean how do we use this what does this count for they've been gracious in helping us this whole way through and we're really excited to get this implemented on 44 grand uh happy to
answer any questions okay thank you Mr. Woods. I was wondering my first concern with the first project was how was you going to address that 19 acres and I see that's what I meant when you come forward. I see how you address that because that was my concern because of
the topography leading towards that way. Uh Miss Bush, you had a question. Yeah, I actually have a few questions. You can put the site plan back up. Sure. Um, being as somebody that works in transportation planning, um, I'm not a
fan of stubouts, especially stubouts to nowhere. Um, any one of those site plans would have worked. Oh, did I go past I'm sorry. That's okay. Okay. That Yep. Sure. Um, the connectivity designs, right? The Right. All right. Well, you've got So,
I'm at So, I want to My first question is, are you planning those stubouts to the west and I guess the northwest to a future development project? Not for us. It's Well, Sean, you may be able to talk to this, but um Go ahead. Well, real quick, that north one we got rid of. So,
it's not there anymore. So, because there will be no connection to the north. So, we left the when they told us they didn't want that connection. uh instead of just adding a lot there, it was a perfect opportunity to build a nice park uh a sidewalk connection. So,
that won't that'll be an HOA owned track now um not a roadway connection. So, there's no roadway connection to the north. Um there is one to the west. Well, I was talking about one the stub out that was like on the northwest corner, not necessarily Yeah, that one
that goes that's like on the jog there. That's just because there's a couple homes right there. Um understood. it dead ends on the um pond so there won't be any future connections there. Right. And same thing with the one that's running east west. You've got the culde-sac on one side which I absolutely despise culde-sacs and then you have the
stub out to the retention pond that would never connect to anything in the future. There's no rightway there for them to continue those roads. I understand that. But if there were to be a development that came in in the future, you could ostensibly connect those. It it would be hard because um
once this gets platted, those parcels are going to be owned by the HOA. So they couldn't Well, you could plat it so that it could be a future connection. Well, let me not plan to Yeah, let me So, let me address that. So, the stubout, let's talk about the northern strip there for the roadway. Uh we had
provisions for potential connectivity to the north into the power line ement that was mixed even for like emergency crash gate or whatever. So that's why you've got that as being kind of our focal point for the bike trail location. Um the lack of connectivity on the northeast quadrant one, we're not trying
to trapes through on the on the trail and connection, but that's to limit our connectivity onto Grand just to limit our driveway access on the west side. We are providing that at the request of of the um county staff good interconnectivity both for that left
area and then for the jog on the north. But the design for it to be kind of like a hammerhead is more to accommodate the uh ability for navigation into the driveways of the homes there. Less of actual connection. Yeah. The likelihood of that actually being connected to any
of the adjacent property. It's it's still a possibility, but it's not a likelihood. And so it's been designed under staff's recommendation for that. Okay. Um, so I understand why then you're not able well I being in this business I get what you're telling me
right but what I'm asking for is for you to make those considerations so that you can have that connectivity in the future because drawing people to the roundabout and to that um southern side of the property your your impact your traffic impact is much greater onto those two
major thorough affairs than if you were to you know vary it out to the other different access points. So, as much as I hate trail crossings for um road rideway, that's my job. Um I would want I would hate to see a culde-sac there
and not have that connectivity. Now, I did see that you have a potential mulch trail. Um I do have comments about using mulch as that surface because it's not it's not great for cyclists necessarily, especially if you're trying to be able to get from that home to that trail.
Thinking about kids trying to ride their bikes to school, right? that's that's difficult. So maybe consider paving that or doing some kind of ADA stabilized surface in order for them to connect there or at least provide some type of better connection in order for that
resident to go from those northern homes to access Grand Avenue on the west or east side. We do have asphalt connectivity at at least two points obviously where the roadway kind of connects and then on the north the limitation of the mulch trail is because of the storm water attenuation park
under the LI standards is to minimize that amount of non or of pvious imperous non-vegetative stuff. That's kind of the encouragement for that. But we still want to make sure that you're on a bike, you can get on there without having to clip out and and step into dirt, mulch,
whatever. You can still access the trail. flipping in. But um my my point is is that there are other pvious surfaces that you guys could explore in order to stabilize that so that you know everybody could utilize those pathways. So the one on that end of that culde-sac
is on our other plan. It doesn't show up differently on this one, but on our other site plan, we do designate that one differently than the other ones because it is considered the vegetated. I forgot the term. You can see it's blue on there. It's not the
brown path. So, it has to be pvious, but we didn't define what that pvious is yet. So, it's something we can look into because that makes sense. There's a trail there. Mhm. So, to do something more stable than mold makes sense. And if you're not if you're not willing and able to provide vehicular access, then
at least provide active an active transportation network to connect to that trail in a for you know, people that are more than just walking. You know, there's a lot of rollable devices these days, wheelchairs, moms with strollers, I hate taking my stroller over mulch, right? Um, and if I'm trying
to access a trail and I live in one of those homes, that's going to be very difficult for me. It's something to look into because obviously rocks aren't always working on strollers too, but there's things like coin and things like that that are still pvious but stable. Yeah, there's other subsurfaces or surfaces that you can use. Um, I also noticed in your example, and I don't
know, have you done a tree survey? I'm assuming you have and note the species of trees because pine trees hate getting their feet wet and in the project that you showed there's a lot of wet pine and they will die eventually. So I know that you tout that you're keeping a lot of
these existing species and these existing trees but if they're not going to have a longevity because they they're not in an environment in which they can thrive then at what point are you going to come in as the HOA? Maybe this goes into the um the covenants, but you know,
replanting the material with maybe a species that does like having their feet wet. Yeah. So, the pine trees are kind of strange in that they they're more tolerant than in oak trees will die pretty quick. Depends on the species, right? Right. But the we do find that
most of the pine we have pine trees in the middle like that training gardens one. It was wet with pine trees in the middle. So, long as it dries out, sometimes the pine trees are okay. So that being said, that is something and you know me and the landscape I'm not the landscape architect, but we've already talked about I want to make that wet look better somehow, enhance it
somehow. So if we could, you know, the plantings in that area to add stuff to it like cypress trees and those sort of things would Yeah, it would go a long way. So if those few pine trees die, there's something else that's growing in its place. Right. Right. Understood. Mr. Ashley, you had a question or comment. I
just want to bring a comment there is about the connectivity that is something from our land development code that that we do require for uh subdivisions to interconnect with other projects when they can especially when we're dealing with a property that's on two thoroughfare roadways to minimize number
of cuts and provide for u first responder accessibility from one project to another. Another uh good reason for this particular uh future interconnection if something were to happen uh for to the west because there is still residential property before you
get to the industrial area with this Martin Marietta on the railroad is the fact that this section of 44 kind of ends with the bridge. So there is a narrow amount of frontage along that roadway. So if there's uh I'm imagine in
the future if there we are looking at a driveway connection for the industrial area it may be allowed for u a connection maybe for the rest of the project property excuse me that may go residential but because of the incline of the bridge to go over the railroad
tracks some traffic if it can come through this proposed project that helps eliminate um left turn conflicts that would probably occur because the limited frontage and with the angle of the elevation as the roadway of 44 goes up
and over the railroad track. So, and those are some of the elements we look at through the site development process and that's why the land development code looks for those interconnection provide for al alternate means of access points and dist distribution of trips created
by these developments as well. Thank you. That's all I had Mr. Bush. Yep. Um, thank you for that explanation. And I figured that that was in the code at some place and that wouldn't necessarily be on you all. That would be on the the
property coming in and and developing in the future. Um, if you look at the stubs of those two roads where the light green is, that does even though it won't be paved by us, that is dedicated as part of rideofway. That's why it's not included in the in the tree. Yeah. Okay. Understood. And I just wanted to make
sure that that like I said was um put into the plat so that those future connections could be made. Like I said, not a fan of how you've configured the north side specifically the step out to the storm water pond and the culde-sac, but I understand you're trying to to get
the density that you need um in order to make the project pencil. I appreciate the connection to the commercial property that somebody doesn't have to go out onto New York or to Grand to access. And I'm assuming that there's a stub out I think on the commercial
property that will connect to the gas station so that there's connections in between. Yes. And there's access via this property through an easement already. The the the commercial is there um one to provide the elbow room if the
gas station ever redevelops. What we did not want to do was necessarily encapsulate it. We we don't have any contact with them or connection point. But having seen older gas stations not have the elbow room to grow, then they become basically the corporations abandon them. They go to the local and
then the quality sometimes deteriorates a little bit. We want to at least give the opportunity for the redevelopment there. Um any of that kind of development is anticipating very limited access off of of 44 and utilizing that stub out probably for like a rear load access point with a roadway kind of
running along through the commercial area. Okay, that makes sense. Um, I did want to mention you you mentioned that the Suntrell funding cannot be used for acquisition. That's not true. You cannot you you cannot do eminent domain for trails. That that's what I was meaning. But Sunil funding can be used for the
purchase of property. Um, but again, it's it you have to it that eats into your construction and design cost that you want to use for Sunrell funding. Um, I did want to ask and I don't know if this and and I think that this is an allowance within Sunil, but I'm not 100%
sure. Um, I saw that Valuchia County is going to construct it. In my experience, sometimes it's better when the developer constructs it and gets the fees paid back in reimbursement because you're already moving dirt and it actually is a
cost savings and a cost benefit to the residents and the the county. Um, has that been explored? Do you want to I we've gone through all the iterations. Um I think the concept that you're kind of mentioning us doing the construction for reimbursement. I
know that from just the uh impact fees alone would not be able to kind of cover the full cost. Um and I think there is some elements and I don't want to speak for for road and bridge who would be doing the construction but I think they kind of like to control their domain when they're when they're constructing
it. Um that's that's still moving forward. We're trying to be as flexible as possible. Um, and we've really, one of the big friction points or one of the things that had us concerned is this kind of took a little bit of a pause as we waited for the LI to kind of catch up
because we were ahead of it. Then we heard the L was coming through. So, we're like, okay, let's hold off. As we waited, state still coming through like they're they're under their time constraint for their grant. And so, we've been in contact with that department at the county just to make
sure that they don't lose anything for a delay. So, we've been kind of filling them in on what our likelihood of alignment is. It's amazing how many different individual departments at the county end up being involved with that because even who ends up building it doesn't maintain it. Um, and that coordination, uh, the county has been
doing a good job, but it's like we're all beholden to to the DOT funds or the the the Sunrail funds, making sure that we meet the letter of it and meet the deadlines for that, too. And we've been we've been busting our butts trying to keep that so that there's no challenge with that. So, the funds have been
provided for this project already. They're not going after the funds. I I No, I think they've got engineering and construction funds now, right? Yeah. The in the engineer that's doing it actually we've in contact with they're they're pretty far ahead on this project. They've been itching for us to finalize
our design so they can finalize theirs. Um so, they're probably going to be ahead of us. I don't think they'd want to wait. Okay. So, understood. But I appreciate the amenities that you're providing. Um that's something that's lacking on the entire Sunrell network. Um as someone that works on that, um
will you be doing any type of signage or working with the county to install signage? Yeah, and that's part of it both along the bike trail and within that storm water treatment facility. Uh there's signage in there for both vegetation and and educational kind of opportunities. Um, you know, I think
it's a good opportunity for the county, although it gets, you know, anytime they have anything posted and then it's prior restraint and, you know, communication and conversation, but this is a nice little stretch of property that you could do something kind of unique before you get to 44. So, um, and if I could advocate it for it to be within the
hammock of your property, that's what I would prefer. The county already maintains several stretches that are within heavily wooded um sections and it's um it's highly it's better used especially during months like this um versus it just being road adjacent.
We're really trying to steer away from that and the sunrail funding as well um prefers this since they combine that with conservation uh in the last legislation cycle. So thank you for all of that. Absolutely. Okay. Any other questions for the
applicant? I had a couple for the engineer here. Uh your uh reclaimed water pond, do you have one of those on site? Uh not at the moment. It's all dry ponds on this at the moment besides the wetland which will be wet. Have you got
a consumption permit yet from the city? Uh not yet. Um we've been working with the city loosely because we haven't got into that part of the engineering yet. Okay. So when you do your storm water calculations, do you consider the
reclamation ponds and the especially in the event if they're not lined? Do you ever consider that? We've only done one reclaimed pond in the city and it was lined. So, if they did have us do one, which they haven't indicated that the
last few projects we did with the city that they did not have us out of reclaim pond, if they later in the game did that, we would line it because I don't want, you know, you spend a lot of money on reclaim that you're not using. So, okay. Because there's a belief in some of the areas that we're having issues. I'm well aware of that. Yes. Okay.
You're very aware of that. So my concern is the amount that you're going to have to bring back to this development site and it be at least being calculated into your storm order, especially if it's a not a line p a line pond. Um,
and if you're not required to have one, what we need to know is where does the city plan on putting this reclaim water? because each one of these units here is going to produce anywhere from 2 to 300 gallons a day. Um, so the city's reclaim
system was on the part of town that has all the reclaim ponds had it didn't struggle with the volume, it struggled with the flow rate. So the reclaimed ponds help buffer that because they can pump from those ponds. My understanding is this spot doesn't have that issue. A lot of cities, municipalities don't need
to do the reclaim ponds to um provide the pressure that the city's own pumps can do that for them. So our hope would be that would this project would be in one of those situations. Okay. What if we need to do one then it's going to be lined. Well, see this is what the city's
having a problem with is during high rain events, they need storage for their reclaimed water. they because because of the resting that they're under that they can't do any open water distribution after a certain period of time right so
they can't send it to St. John, they can't send it to the Halifax or whatever, you know. U but they have to either store it or use it like you said. Um so in your consumption permit that we I would like to see in your calculations
for your storm water to at least include the consumption permit from the city so you'll know what you have to do as far as storage. And if not, we need to know, not necessarily you, where that water is going that is being
consumed by each one of these homes because we don't want it to be a dump, we don't want other areas to be a dumping ground for the reclaimed water, right, during high rain events when they have to distribute it somewhere. So in general, so those are the rapid
infiltration basins you're referring to. If you have a pond that's whole purpose in life is to infiltrate reclaim water. They couldn't use our storm water pond to do that unless it was permanent as that. That's why I'm asking. I didn't see one on there. No. So they don't there's no proposed rapid infiltration basin on this project. So they couldn't
do that with this project unless they made us do it. But at this point they've never said I've never asked the question, do you want one on there? So I want to beg the question, but uh they've not said they want to put one on our project. So that's, you know, that's where the breakdown and communication is between
the county and the cities are on these reclaimed ponds. But um I I believe it's a problem. I mean, especially if they're not these are not lime ponds because you know the problems that we're having in other areas, right? So all right. Um do
we have any other We do have some public participation forms. I'll let them speak and give you a chance for rebuttal. Okay. Miss Amy Rehang. Could I get your name and address for the record? And could I get a time clock, please? My name's Amy Rarig. I
live at 251 Grand Avenue, Dand, Florida. Okay. You had comment you would like to make? Yeah, just just real quick. Um, I just want to say that I know this whole project's in motion. The eyes are probably ready to be given out real real
fast here. I know you're all very excited about this project. But as one of the homeowners who lives in the midst between all of this chaos, I can tell you that I have a lot of concerns. I have Grand View behind me that that they
developed. Very dense population. houses are very close together, retention ponds. Now, directly across the street is this coming and then to the right on uh the left on the other side of the roundabout is all clearcut and more
houses. My concern isn't necessarily the development, it's the density and it's flooding. We've always been high and dry. Never had a water issue there in the 30 years I've lived there. And I
know a lot of other dillandites who are local natives, have been in their homes for years, never had any water, always were high and dry until these developments came around their homes and now they're flooding and now they have issue.
I heard all of the reports made by the engineer and I appreciate all of that knowledge, but I don't think he really knows what's going to happen. I don't think it's been tried. Uh, so I just want to be here to put on
the record that I have always been high and dry. I have never had flooding and if I do, you are on notice and that's all I'm here to say. The other thing I want to say, I heard you questioning
people putting in sheds about if they're going to remove a tree and they're completely cutting down every historical oak tree in the area and no one's concerned, but a homeowner wants to
remove a tree to put a shed in and it's an issue. I just don't get it. So, that's all I wanted to say, but you are on notice. If I flood, the county will be in trouble. Thank you. Thank you. Uh,
Mr. Jeffrey Re, could I get your name and address for the record, sir? Uh, Jeff Ric, 271 Grand Avenue, Dand. Uh yeah, I live right on Grand Grand Grand Avenue there, right in between all this chaos going on
right now. Uh there are three issues that I'm uh a little concerned about. Well, a lot two of them a little traffic and noise. I mean, I just heard them talking about that now. I think in the beginning they said there was a traffic
study in progress. So, I'm not sure how this is all moving forward so fast if they're doing a study. I may be wrong there. But obviously, there's going to be a lot of traffic, much more. I mean,
you got uh the dump there. I I forget the name of it, but there's a lot of traffic from that right there alone. And uh, of course the noise with all those trucks and you got the Valuchia
Mall behind us, uh, Mulsh Place behind us and that's crazy with all all the noise there and this is going to definitely add to it. Uh, my main concern though is the water. I heard a lot of talk about water here and uh,
right rightfully so. And uh behind me, the uh Grand View development they just put in right behind me. Uh I already see the runoff. They built up
five, six, seven feet in the southwest corner, which is right behind me. Now, granted, everything else it flows down this big huge uh hole they dug there and works out nice, but they didn't take
into consideration one corner of it, which leads down to all the houses, you know, the few houses that are on uh Grand View right there. And I already see the difference in the past few rainfalls of that water rushing through
my property. Now, I did hear them say that they're gonna try to make all the water go west and stay away from Grant, and that would be great. I hope they do, but they probably hope to do it behind me, too, and not affect anybody, and
they did. So, I'm concerned about that. And uh then the other thing as far as the water goes is I mean with that dump right there now I don't know if it's going to be an issue or not but there's going to be a lot of runoff and I don't
know how that's going to going down into the ground into the uh over there where the dump where everything's I know it's only uh um construction material and yard waste and
stuff like that But, uh, I'm I'm sure there's a big hole there and ain't filling up. And so, that's a concern there. I don't know if that was looked into or not. Uh, all right. I'm going to have them come back up and hopefully answer some of your concerns. Uh,
unfortunately, your three minutes are up, sir. Thank you. Thank you for your comments, though. Do we have any other public participation forms for this case? No, sir. Okay. Mr. Woods, would you like a rebuttal? Uh yeah, first and foremost, um I
appreciate their their comments. You the design and growth pattern on the east side of Grand Avenue. We had talked about this before the first kind of goaround. Uh they do have it's it's an older development pattern of almost flag lots, right? So they get a similar density, but it's not from a platted
subdivision. Uh most of them out there, I believe, are unrecorded exempt subdivisions. So the infrastructure is not there. But they have done pretty well in in in years past, but you basically have a row of houses directly on Grand and then behind that on a on a flag driveway. They they connect through
there. Um I can't speak to the Grand View on the back side there and what the situation's going on with that. I just know that with with Sean's exercises and the amount of caution above and beyond required by code for the volutric calculations and
the assumptions being made. Um these these are the projects that are trying to take the lessons from what we've had to go through for the last couple years to try to see and make sure everything works through with respect to traffic. We had talked a little bit about that again that first goound particularly with the dump trucks coming off of the
CND site. That's again one of our our efforts to try to limit our access points on the driveway aisle to try to it's it's kind of a catch22 like I prefer connectivity but we're also trying to steer traffic away from those residents that are there. We're trying
to to steer away um the the volume of uh you know any conflict interference conflict with the existing driveways there whether it's bicycle or or car. Um, and then from uh from the from the buildup, I think what you see and again the focus for our overall project is all
of our development, our lot development really is focused Oh, that's not my my picture anymore. Is focused on the on the west side of that pro project area there. So, we are really trying to pull our development off of Grand as best that we can. Um, if you have any other
specific questions, I'm I'm happy to try to answer them or again, Sean's here, too. We appreciate your time today. Okay. Thank you, Mr. woods. Miss Craig have a question. Is your microphone on Miss Craig? Sorry. Is there any way we can see a side by
side of the previous um Yeah. Yeah. Hold on. Let me uh Can you pull up my PowerPoint? Thank you. We all want to live there. That's Yeah, that's going to be my retirement there, right? Okie dokie. All right, let me find where
we've got that. Okay, so this is the approved project. Um, and you can kind of see the current version and then this is what our proposal is. So, the driveway access point remains the same. So, that roadway coming off of Grand is the same, but you can kind of see how
we've stretched out onto the north side. If you want like a frame of reference for one to one. I'd like to see them side by side because I'm having trouble. Uh I don't have a toggle for that. Is that oriented the same? Yes. So to kind of give you a a
reference point, look at the western boundary, right? Run all the way to the top of the western boundary. The farthest most point northwest where there's uh to the left side of the screen. You could say say take the dog park and cut a line across it. right there. That's
the old layout. Everything south of that for the most part. Okay. So, if you see the black line running through the project, right? Yes. That's part of the first phase. That's roughly where that first development Yeah. That corner right there. Right where the where the toggle is right there with the arrow.
Okay. Look at that intersection. That that angle and that angle is where it stubs off right there. So, we just picked up right. Yep. So right where that triangle goes up is right there. So anything north of that line is the new
and anything south is the existing. Switch to the other one again. Yep. Okay. I wish I could see them side by side, but um hold on. I might have a print. When in doubt paper, right? I love paper.
Miss Craig, this is work for you. Yeah, that's that's better. Thank you. Thank you. Well, I think one of the objections that we had previously was the was the density and although it has gone down, it's still
that's a lot. But at any rate, thank you very much. Well, I appreciate it. And and just to kind of re respond to that is the the other difficult balance on all of this with the LI is making sure that the overall yield on the residential can support the cost for the
enhanced kind of project. Um we were very mindful of trying not to push the bounds. I think we were very happy to be able to come in with a reduced density overall because we were aware of that conversation. But ultimately at the end of the day doing the design like this takes much more time and much more
effort than the big ugly ponds. And so we if it's too low of density it becomes you discourage the ability for somebody to be able to do the LI development standard. So there is a little bit of a balance there. Um again with the 2.74
whatever we end up with um in the proximity to the Sunrail station to the south by about a mile mile and a quarter. We think we're not pushing the limits. Um and I've said this before and I I think when I was before you here on
Wolfart's project of the south I thought that density over time we'd be thinking that that should have been higher than what that was. Now, it's a big transition, but from a functionality standpoint and the success of that Sunrail station, at least to the south there, you would think that that would
would be there. But for for us here, staying within the ULI, not pushing for urban medium intensity and trying to stay with the size lots that we have and not trying to push the limits on that too. Um, we've we've tried to be respectful for for everyone. The other
element too is again knowing what's across the street and at their density. I think we did an exercise with that the first go through that again they don't have storm water, they don't own sidewalks, they don't have all the other stuff, but their their functional density is not that much uh less than
what we're kind of coming through. Um but we can't develop that way and we've been trying to limit kind of our impacts to them by pulling our residential kind of away from them and keeping that screening so that they don't necessarily have to kind of from a visual standpoint provide provide that. So all that is to
say I appreciate your concern. We're trying to do we're trying to balance it and and not overextend ourselves but still make a project as viable. Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Okay. We're going to close the for public participation. Open up for
commission discussion or a motion. Um I understand the citizens concerns. I really do. But one of the things that I look at from my point of view is the the hydraulic issue of the water coming back
whether it be from reclaimed water or from the um storm water and from the original concept that we approved um or that has been approved I think this would address that more than hinder it.
Um, so and as far as the development in the area, the density, um, I I looked when when we looked at first originally looked at this, I looked at the development to the south of 44 and it was just, uh, it's obvious
that eventually this density probably would occur here, whether it be done by uh, annexation to the cities. And so I mean if we I'd like for the for it to run through the county that way we do
have some sort of control as far as what actually the PUD will eventually look like. So I think this is going to be a plus to the original one. Not saying that I'm not a big fan on high density developments in the area either, but um
you know it if if they're going to be somewhere, they they need to be done correctly and and that's where I'm at with this one. Any other comments I' like or motion? Miss Bush, go ahead. If you want to make the motion first and then I can comment
after, that's fine. You can make the motion. I don't care. Okay. Um, do you want me to We'll vote on them separately. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Read in. Read it in. We'll case number CPA 25-003. Uh, move to approve.
And I don't believe there's any staff comments or conditions. Not for the comp plan amendment, just that that you find it consistent and and forward to county council with recommendation to approval and extend it to the Futia Growth Management
Commission. I just wanted to make sure. Okay. Do we have a second on that? I'll second. Okay. I'm concerning CPA20003 that we find the future land use amendment consistent with the
comprehensive plan and forward the application case number CPA20005 to the county council with a recommendation of approval to transmit to the Florida Department of Commerce for expedited state review and to the Valuchia Growth Management Commission
for certification for Miss Shelley and a second from Miss Bush. Any discussion on the motion? I do. Yes. Thank you, chairman. Um, you know, I I appreciate all the work that went into this to to try to
approach the new LI um policies and and implement them in a manner that has the least amount of impact on the land while, you know, you still have the project that you need to pencil. This is where I think being a land use planner
um and I've talked to staff about this, having small area plans and studies done before we get proposals like this come in in order to um support the density and the intensive growth that will occur
especially around the Sun Rail station that has come in I think is almost truly needed and we almost need to halt development around these areas until that's done so that residents have the opportunity to come in and look at this
area and how it's going to impact them instead of doing it in a peacemeal fashion like we're doing right now where you come in with a project and somebody else comes in with a project and we're picking these things apart indep individually. Um, and you know this is
you know I'm this is something that I've been a big strong proponent of is that we need to update local area plans. We need to look at where future growth is going for looking at master storm water plans and understanding where the storm water needs to go uh and looking at the environmental impacts because we are all
impacted by this at the end of the day. So while I am in support of this project individually, I think that we as a council and as the Valuchia County Council really needs to take a concerted effort to look at the densities that um
are proposed or look at master planning essentially around these Sunreil stations that really warrant and need the density intensity for it to be successful. um and where they've stubbed them out have especially in Valuchia County has has not been and there's going to be a significant increase in
growth because of that and it's going to be an ad hoc type of system without looking at it from a a master planning or small area scale plan. So I really feel like to um to help the residents be more involved in this process to have
them have a voice instead of having to come up here and fight every single one of these projects. Um it's it's not a good use of our time. It's not a good use of our resources. Um and I really hope that um some of our councilmen are listening today to this meeting so that
they can take this to consideration. Uh and maybe that's something that we can discuss as a board um to ask council to look at these things so that we are not um peacemeal approving these types of densities and intensities in communities that really don't want to see this and
and have no voice. Thank you. Okay, any other comments? Okay, we got a motion on the floor. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.
Okay, Miss uh I'll entertain a motion for the PUD. Yes, sir. Case number PUD-25-00003. A um I move that that be approved uh and be forwarded to the county
council with a final action for recommendation of approval. Do I have a second? Yeah, I'll second. I got a motion on the floor for Miss Shelley for PUD25003 to forward the reszoning application case number PUD25005
to the county council for the final action with recommendation of approval. and a second for Mr. Sixma. Any discussion on this motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.
Okay, Miss Shelley, could I get the next case, please? Yes, sir. Case number CPA-25-00004 smallcale comprehensive plan amendment from the Ostein urban residential or future land use designation to the Ostein transitional
TRLU designation. Thank you Miss Shel and Mr. Shams. This one's yours. Uh good morning again. Uh this application has a separate That's all right. Um, Miss Shel, would you like to read the next one in the Go ahead and read
that in as well. Of course. Case number Z-25-00003 reszoning from the Ostein urban residential OUR zoning classification to the Ostein transitional residential otr one zoning classification.
All right. Thank you. Um so the to start this uh these two applications together did receive a letter of support uh that has been provided to you. Uh the applicant is proposing a feature land use change from OIE UR to Ostein TR for the development of a maximum of eight
units. The accompanying resoning is being heard concurrently and it's contingent on land use change approval. Uh this is a 3.83 83 acre site within the Ostein local plan and is located approximately 36 miles east of state
road 415. Uh the UR future lings designation is unique. Um being part of the local plan, they have their own land use designations. Uh this this designation is most similar to our urban medium intensity which permits four to eight
units per acre. Um though this site is within the Deltona's utility service area, the city has no plans to extend utilities to the site. So on-site treatment is required. Uh the department of health requires a minimum of halfacre lots for septic and
this creates an inherent conflict as the minimum density of UR um is is applied to the site. There is a minimum of 15 lots and based on the size of the site each lot would be approximately quarter acre size quarter acres in size which is
too small for septic. The proposed land use change would result in a reduction of residential density. Uh TR's density is a maximum of four units an acre uh which is most similar to our urban low intensity. If the site is divided into halfacre lots
the maximum yield is about seven which is approximately 1.8 8 units per acre. The surrounding area is developed as large lot residential and agricultural uses. Originally developed in 1960s to 1980s. Uh the surrounding lots range between
half an acre to 1acre with some as large as 5 acres. The site is currently developed with a 796 ft home that was built in 1910, but this will be removed. The request is consistent with the comprehensive plan uh policies related
to on-site utilities and the OC and local plan. Since the request is to reduce density and develop with less than 10 units, no adverse impacts to concurrency monitored facilities are expected. The city of Deltona reviewed this project as part of our joint
planning agreement and they found it consistent. Uh environmental permitting also reviewed did not object. Without the future land use change, the site can simply not be developed. So overall, staff recommends forwarding uh the land use change to county council with a
recommendation of approval to transmit to the Florida Department of Commerce and our VGMC. And the resoning application is very similar to the Lanny's application. Um, since the site is in the OE local plan,
the zoning classes are required to be consistent with their specific corresponding land use designations. The existing OUR zoning has a minimum lot size of 5,000 square ft and the proposed OTR1 has a minimum lot size of 10,000 ft.
However, the applicant is proposing halfacre lots to utilize on-site septic systems. Though the site is within an OUR zoned area and is not contiguous with OTR1, most of the properties are developed in a manner more consistent with OTR1 as
the lots are much larger. Um, and based on the maps on screen, there's about a one one parcel separation from our subject site to OTR1. Uh, the hosting local plan was intended as an aspirational framework to guide
future growth in hosting. The intent was to classify areas along 415 with the most intense uses and gradually reduce intensity as one moves away from the corridor with transitional areas. Uh the site is located in an area between the more intense OIN commercial
village and the less intense OTR1. However, the area did not develop as originally thought uh in large part due to the lack of central utilities. So since the utilities are not available, the site must be developed with fewer larger lots to meet the minimum area
requirements of septic. So as a result, the proposed resoning is necessary. Uh based on recent community feedback, this model of residential development is actually preferred as it prioritizes larger lots, is more consistent with existing homes, and has a reduced impact
on traffic. So overall staff recommends boarding the county council uh with a recommendation of approval. I'm available for comment or question. Thank you Mr. Thank you Mr. Shams. Any uh questions for staff?
Okay. Is the applicant present? I can I can just barely say good morning still. Um good morning for the record. Mark Watts with the law firm of Cobb Cole 231 North Woodland Boulevard dand um here on behalf of the applicant and um I timed it out with Mike um before we
came over here. My presentation is only five or six minutes longer than his. So you're you're you're safe. Um but no, I I do want to compliment that project. I know the peacemeal nature of things sometimes is frustrating, but I think they have done just a really good job of of really synthesizing a lot of the
things that we've been talking about about how our planning and how our growth and development maybe should be, you know, the direction it should be going in and and I compliment Mike and and Sean and their team and their client um for being willing to go along along with that. Got a little bit different
situation here. uh you know as uh as Steven said and I I appreciate the staff time and and work with us on this um we have a situation here where there's a minimum required density that we cannot physically develop. Um there is no central utilities in place. There is no
plan to extend central utilities in place and presently the minimum number of units that are required to be built on this property if you're building it for um you know residential use would be 15 uh 15 to 16. We have a pending um rightaway vacation for an unopened
rideway that I think will bump us right to four acres for this parcel. So um we're simply here asking to to down zone um which is not a common thing. Um but here I think it is much more in keeping if you looked at the maps that you saw in your staff materials. It is very much
in keeping with um you know the the existing lot pattern that you see kind of in this part of Ostein. Um you know larger lots half an acre. I think there was one as small as 02, but generally speaking, half an acre up to an acre, you know, four or five acres. Um, that's
really consistent with that historic pattern of of of growth and development that you've seen here. Um, the other interesting thing, and I'm I'm speaking generally about both the land use and and zoning in this, so I apologize if there's any specific questions on one or the other, but um I'm happy to answer
those. Um but just out of curiosity, I I went through and looked at, you know, the the differences in permitted uses between um you know, the OUR classification and the OTR1, and they're very very similar, but you can see the transition occur as well in
those uses. So, um, the things that we're asking you to approve getting rid of this morning, cluster and zero outline subdivisions, general offices, and multifamily dwellings, those are the things that are in the current list of permitted uses for the OUR
classification for the existing special exceptions that are permitted. Um, daycare centers, group homes, health clubs and spas, medical and dental clinics, nursing homes, and pharmacies. Those are all things that are permitted currently under the the existing zoning.
Um, in what we're going to I'm just going to highlight the things that we're adding because I think they kind of tie into, you know, Miss Vanam was kind enough to send a letter of support. Um, and I think she cited to a lot of the community scoping that's gone on recently both on the on the private side and in the in the county workshops. Um,
and and the general sense was keep larger lots, keep more agricultural type uses. So the uses added with this change, aquaculture, hobby breeder, um those are the only two permitted uses that are added. Um I already mentioned the ones that were taken away and the
special exceptions aquaculture if exemption or if non-exempt excavations are required, dog and cat boarding um uh facilities as long as um it meets the conditions in the in the code. Equestrian livestock event facilities and um processing of agricultural
products not raised on the premises. So, I think this change um while it's different than the JPA plan, I think one of the things that we've heard a lot of feedback on recently is that maybe that JPA plan um doesn't fully reflect uh some of the the long-term plans that the
community out there has at this point in time. So, um to your comment about Miss Bush about updating plans from time to time. So, it's really u I think that simple. I I'll be happy to answer any questions that you might have, but we're we're really looking to reduce the density so that it is possible um to
actually have a use of the property that's um you know can be done without the central utilities. Happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Mr. Watts. Any questions for S I mean for the applicant. Okay. Do we have any public participation forums for this case? No,
sir. All right. We're going to close the floor for public participation. open up for commission discussion or a motion. Okay, I will make a comment. Anytime you reduce density, I'm kind of in favor for that. Caught my ears right there. I like that one.
I I'll go ahead and make a motion. U case number Z25003. No, let's let's do the CPA first. We're doing CPA for We're doing the Oh, the 0041. Yes. CPA. Okay. So, we're
doing that one first. Yes. Um, case number uh CPA25004. Uh, make a recommendation of approval to forward to county council. I'll second. Yeah, I've got a recommendation on the floor to find the future land use
amendment consistent with the comprehensive plan and forward the application case number CPA20004 to the county council for the recommendation of approval to transmit to the Florida Department of Commerce for expedi expedited state review and to
the Growth Management Commission for certification for Mr. Sixma and a second from Mr. Ersen. Any discussion on the motion? Miss Bush. Thank you, chairman. Um, similar to my previous comments on the
last project, um, you know, I'm not a fan of spot zoning and changing the future land use where there's, you know, lots of that other land use and zoning around it. Um, but I know that the discussion for the Ostein local area plan is on the table and I know that
with the community feedback, those will be changed. And I think setting this precedent is a good precedent to set especially if we want to try to reduce those intensities and densities that are currently allowed. Um so where normally I would not be in favor of something like this. I think to everybody on this
board we like the fact that this is downzoning. We like the fact that it's in keeping with what the residents uh of the community wish to see. And I just hope that we expedite the uh the update of the local area plan so that Mark, you don't necessarily have to come before us
to ask to do these types of uses uh in this specific area. So, while I'm glad that there is a local area plan, uh it's just not in keeping with I think the what the community is looking for. So, um hopefully this sets a precedent and we are able to make these changes so
that um we can reduce these intensities and densities in the future. Thank you. Okay, the motion is on the floor. Um, all those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Okay. Uh, I'll entertain a motion for
the zoning. I'll make a motion that we approve case number Z-25-00003. We forward the resoning application to the county council for final action with the recommendation of approval. I second. Okay. Okay, I got a motion on the floor from Miss Shelley to forward the resoning application case number
Z25003 to the county council for final actual recommendation of approval and a second for Mr. Ersen. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries
unanimously. Okay. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Miss Shelley, could I get the next case, please? Yes, sir. Case number, ordinance number 2025-020, the Valuchia County Growth Management
Department Planning and Development Services Division for a Special Exceptions Ordinance. Okay. Um, this is Miss Ray, but I did have brought to my attention before our meeting today. Uh, there was some
concerns about uh, Miss Craig, you had some concerns on the reviewing this today or Yes, thank you. Um, it notes on page three, the paragraph at the bottom, due to the recently passed
Florida Senate Bill 180, local governments are preempted from approving ordinances, so on and so forth, that in fact has not been passed yet. Um, it has not it has been passed to the governor's office, but he has not given it final approval. And I think that that has um
some relevance to what we're trying to do here. Um, I think that we're kind of at odds with the direction that the um, state is going and at least I know I am. Um, and I and I don't know what the legalities are of us going going ahead
assuming that it's been passed when in fact it has not. Okay. Um, so what the way I was taking it, you would uh, do you wanted to try to defer this to a later date? Is that is that correct? or I don't know how
staff feels about that. I'd like to have their it was drafted such that if SP 180 passes, it has no effect on this ordinance because it does not create a more restrictive or burdensome land
development regulation. This was drafted with SP 180 in mind. Um you know SP 180 is effective upon signature and it is retroactive. So if the governor vetos it, fine. Um
our ordinance, you know, prevails. If the governor signs it, fine. Our ordinance prevails. That's the reason why it was mentioned. It was drafted, you know, um with SP 180 in mind to make sure that it is not null and void if it
if it is executed by the governor. Okay. Thank you. Okay. We'll move forward with it then. Okay. U Miss Ray, this one's yours. I I just want to add something to what Paulo just said. Um that um this was the
directed by council to have sorry Carol McFarland planning and development services director. Um so I just wanted to make that clarification that the being less restrictive was the specific direction that staff got. So I just
wanted to make that clear. Got it. Uh Miss Bush. Yeah. Before we continue, I just had a question for probably legal. Um I reviewed SB 180 and it seems like it's more about um being more restrictive when it comes to emergency
response. Um and I cannot find in the specific language. Now it is 48 pages long. It is the very last section. It was very similar to SB250 around two years ago. It is not a numbered statute. So, it is a standalone section in this
bill. I think it's section 25, something like that. Um, hold on, let me pull it up. I was going to say, can you direct me to it specifically so I can read that language? Seen so far has been specific to emergency response and disaster preparedness. Yeah. So, it's section 28
of the bill basically all the way in the all the way in the back. But again, it it refers to federal disaster declaration for these hurricanes. Yes, we are in multiple federal disaster areas. So, we were in
um Helen and Milton is section 28. It's page 46 of the bill. That's of the 180 not not in your not in your ordinance. Right. So they're
talking about the bill itself. Yeah. So if we could go ahead and get the presentation. Is that okay, Miss Bush? Yeah, that's fine. I'm still not okay because we need to as far as what we're doing right now is
actually looking at the spec excuse me the specific ordinance not necessarily how that bill is going to affect the ordinance according to Mr. Sorya it shouldn't have a big effect on it at all. Is that correct Mr. Sorya? That's correct. Okay. All right. So let's go
ahead and do the presentation. Thank you. Um so as um Carol has recently stated, this is a county council directed um staff to review and amend chapter 72 to reduce uh the number of public hearings uh required for uses
identified as special exceptions within the zoning code. Um the ordinance is a result of four public workshops focused on reorganizing um which approving body is responsible um for these special exception uses. It was brought um in
front of the PLDRC in March of 2024. Um and then after PLDRC made their recommended changes, we brought it back to county council in October of 2024. Um and they didn't have further changes to the recommendations. Um the special
exception uses will fall into four categories. uh permitted principal uses, conditional uses, special exceptions requiring PLDRC approval, and special exceptions requiring county council approval. In total, this ordinance uh
amends eight sections of the zoning code and staff recommends forwarding to county council with re recommendation of approval and we are all available for questions. Thank you, Miss Ray. Okay, any question for staff? Miss Bush,
I have a lot so bear with me. Um, obviously, um, being in land use as a professional, uh, I have some significant concerns with some of the proposed by right changes and I'd like to go through those individually, uh, to
understand why maybe some of those were um, proposed. First and foremost, um, thank you. um automobile uses. Right now it is um a special exemption
in the OMV which is the Ostein mixeduse village and I am assuming that this change would then make the OMV by right. Am I correct in that assumption? Yes, I see some head nods but would love clarification on that. and I'm gonna ask
a lot of these types of questions. Thank you, Carol McFarland, Planning and Development Services Director. Uh yes, Emily, that is correct. So, what you see um with all of these is you've got uses that were allowed by right in one res uh
zoning classification, special exception in another. So, these are wholesale changes to all of those zoning classifications. Okay. Um, so yes, you are correct and that and we certainly expect that that we're going to discuss
that today. So that's perfectly appropriate. Awesome. Um, so for it looks like rental agencies and service stations both in the OCV and OMV um, and moving those by right. I have an issue
with that. The um Ostein commercial village and the Ostein mixeduse village are intended to be mixed use and more in dense intense uses. Um I think allowing the very autocentric uses by right is a
is a mistake. You're also not taking this local area plan back to the community to ensure that these uses are consistent with what the community wishes to see. I would argue that I don't know if hosting residents would want to see another gas station um or a rental
agency be added to their community without their ability to review it. Um, so I have I take great issue in that, especially changing specific zoning um, classifications and what those entitled uses are in a local area plan without
going through the appropriate changes to that local area plan and looking at it holistically. Um, the second is also car washes. That's further down um, under OMV. That's currently a um, special exemption that would be by right. I have again
it's an autocentric use in OMV is the mixeduse village. So you don't allow autocentric uses in a mixeduse village. Um so I think that's a huge mistake. Cluster residential development cluster
residential home should be um a special exemption in rural residential. I saw that change and that is not in keeping with the definition of rural residential. that should be transitional uh and allowing zero lot line peeds and homes is a mistake because that is not
like I said in keeping with the definition of that zoning district. Dairies should also be a special exemption in A3 and A4. Um there were a lot of proposed changes in A3 and A4 and that is transitional agriculture. uh by
definition in your zoning code that states that it is basically allowing for a transition between intense agriculture uses and residential uses. Uh and by permitting some of these things by right, you'll see a theme as I continue going through the uses. Um I think that
that should still be uh reviewed with a special um exemption. Um, I live in an A4 and I would not appreciate having a poultry farm or a dairy by right adjacent to my house. That would ruin the um appeal that I have living in a
community where I currently live. Um, off- streetet parking uh should not be allowed in agriculture zoned parcels. I think that should be kept with um a special exemption. Um, did you want to comment? I just have a question as we're going through this. Is it possible to
open it up for comment from? Sure, I can do this one at a time. Because it's going through so much. I'm thinking I can't keep enough notes. I understand. I'm I'm happy if you have if you want to do that one at a time. I'm happy to There has to be like when you group the automotive I actually my point is I
wanted to concur with you. Well, with so I I don't know how we're doing this is what I'm saying because now if she's going through the whole thing I but which is great but then it's like well you know do I have to keep notes on each one and what my comments are and each one you know how does that work? Well, I think that would come up in the
commission comments. Um, what I would suggest, and this is totally up to you, is just making a mark by the ones that she's brought up, and we'll go one by one during commission comments cuz um I don't disagree with you. It's
just I'm thinking this is I mean, I have things too, but I'm thinking, you know, it's kind of like like in through protocol, but I think that's the way we should do it. Talking about automotive, so I I don't know. If I can make a recommendation to look
at these in um groupings of my clusters. Okay. Yeah. What we'll do is go through them each one and then we'll make the reasoning or disagreements or whatever during the commission discussion on the I thought we could go through cluster by cluster and make those. No, I mean Okay.
Yeah, youever you want. The recommendations can be um that council consider reconsider some of these uses um or it could be to direct changes to the ordinance. Um so I just wanted to
let you know that there's a couple of options there as you're talking about, you know, is this something that needs further review or maybe we highlight it to the council. I understand that. But my point is um I mean and if if the council disagree
that's fine. I just wanted to bring it out if you I'm looking at automobile and I'm thinking okay then we go through bar you know if we kind of go through and have people anyway. Okay. I'll do it the way you want. So well I think but I'm trying to write what you like about it because maybe I don't agree with that
but I agree with that. So even on the same issue anyway. Okay. Did you Okay. Um, and I can repeat these if you have and I will, like I said, I have some strong opinions on these. Um, poultry farms is next. And this is
mostly all in the by right section. Um, I really only had a few. So, I understand all that. So, just your classifications is what I Okay. Um, I understand that. So, the off- streetet parking I'll go back because I think I didn't finish that. The off- streetet parking should not be allowed in agriculture zoned properties. I think
that should be kept as a special exemption. Um, part of the reason is because some of those are paid services and again, uh, that is not the intent of an agriculture use property. So, I understand that we're trying to make it easier for people to agriculture businesses in agriculture zoned
property, but off street parking is not that type of use. Poultry farms, I mentioned, um, it should not be allowed by right in A3 and A4. Um, as a reminder to everyone that those have smaller
minimum lot sizes. So the A4 is two and a half acres and I could not imagine living next to a poultry farm uh that's smashed in on 2 and a half acres. that is an intense agriculture use and should remain in A1 and A2 and should not be
allowed or if it is allowed by special exemption um and allow us to review those um criteria in A3 and A4 restaurants with drive-throughs again a very autoentric use and that right now
would be is a special exemption in the OE mixeduse village and the Ostein commercial village um again having any autocentric use that's allowed within a mixeduse village no longer designates that as a mixeduse village. Um I feel
like that is a misnomer and if you're trying to keep that uh with those entitlements then do not allow those autocentric uses. Retail sales um should be a special exemption for those that
are greater than 15,000 square feet. Uh that is your um Dollar Generals, that's your some of your bigger um well not even I think that's like your neighborhood Walmarts and those types of retail stores um should have special
exemption uh review in the OMV and the OCV again because that's a mixeduse village. You normally want to support more mom and pop shops uh and those aren't usually 15,000 square feet or greater. um riding stables. As someone that's an
equestrian uh that does competitive horseback riding, that should not be allowed by right in A3 and A4 because they do have um some they they are noisy. They do bring in uh a lot of trailers and vehicles. Uh a lot of them
teach um and are yelling at their students um out loud day in and day out. So, I think that that should still be considered under a special exemption uh review in order to make sure that it's not conflicting with the neighboring parcels specifically in A3 and A4.
Again, those are smaller lots as well. Um, so that's a pretty big intense agriculture use on a potentially 2 and a half acre lot, which I do not agree with, and I don't think that that land could substain could sustain a true
riding stable at that size. Um, schools should not be allowed in any agriculture zoning. I think that should be a special exemption. Again, sticking with what the agriculture uses are. Um, if it's a school that is designated for agriculture purposes, then we review it
and we approve it. Um, but if it's a um a daycare or not a daycare, but if it's a another type of school, the traffic impacts that that will bring to your agriculture communities would be huge. Uh, and I think that that should still
be reviewed um by either PLDRC and or the um county council. Swim clubs and tennis clubs again I do not feel like should be allowed in agriculture zoned land. I think they should continue to be a special exemption. Um there's lots of
noise, there's lots of traffic impacts and again that is transitional agriculture by definition. Uh and that are all those are all the changes that I um am against in the by right section. Uh I do have a couple questions in the
PLDRC section, but I can pause there if we want to go through other uses in the by right section. We're going to pause here. Um any other comments on what Miss Bush just spoke of? because I had one other
one that she didn't touch on and that was the public utility uses and structures. Um, the reason I'm saying that is because a lot of and I'm looking at it from those uh lift stations from uh
sewage plants being put up against the property. I think the homeowners should have an a voice in this. If you don't believe that, go down on Taylor Road and Blue Lake next to one and you will see what I'm talking about. So, she didn't
bring that up. That was the only other one that I could see. Um and so Miss Craig camps it groups together fishing, hunting and nonprofit organization. And I feel like
hunting really needs to um need at least a special ab uh exception considering how small some of the lot sizes are that that are granted this. Um I think anytime you've got you introduce guns to a to an area that a special exception is
probably a wise idea. Um, as far as the restaurants with the drive-thru, I think in a in an area, what I know of Ostein, which is very little, you know, basically going out to the airport, um,
it would I I can see where it would be nice to have a drive-thru Starbucks, for instance, um, and not force somebody to have to park their car, get out, go and buy a cup of coffee. I mean, it adds a significant amount of time for the day.
So, I I really feel like that's um not necessary to restrict any further. I think that was probably pretty much it. She covered every a lot of things. Okay. Any other comments from the on what was
brought forward in the by right section of the ordinance? Now, how would we address these concerns? Um, should we wait to the end to discuss as far as I would recommend you addressing it now while it's fresh on the on your
mind. Okay, Miss Shel, go ahead. I'm just agreeing with that. I said earlier she started going through it. You just wanted to agree. Well, I I think she made some very good points. All right. And I'm happy to repeat any as well. I
kind of rambled through that pretty quickly. So I'm happy to go. I agree with some I don't have time. Well, when it has effect on the osteine plans, I don't know. I don't think it should be my ride at all. They went through a lot of u
pains developing this Ostein plan and getting it through to where it is today for us just to go in and take out parts of what the plan actually says. And um so I I kind of agree with her. I think it needs to be looked at and how you
want to address it, that's totally up to you. You know, I mean I think Yeah. Review. Michelle, your mic's off. Yep. Sorry. And I believe that um
going through is a suggestion for them to look at our comments a lot of times because I did make a comment on the utilities the last time it was in front of us. I don't know what the discussion was. It may have gotten lost between here and there. So, I would like
specifically possibly for maybe someone to make a motion that the council look at the suggestions that were made here today and at least consider them. I mean, we don't make the final decision. Council does, but they need to There were some good points brought up and uh
I don't know if they're aware of these points or not. So I would like to send it forward um not with just say listen to the comments but actually a motion that they were to be brought in with the a list of the the concerns that we had
brought to them for their when during their decision process. Uh I don't I think it's very clear what Miss Bush said. Uh I don't think we need to send it back to staff to red do it as
much as is just make uh council aware of it. If everyone agrees on that, we'll have to make a motion before we finish here today. I I have one other comment too is I I um disagree um
regarding the drive-throughs. I I think there should be I don't think they should be by right either particularly in the Ostein in that area. There's a certain look and feel and as our chairman said they went through a lot of process to get where they were. So I
would I would think that something like that should not necess I mean I don't think it's putting an extra hoop on Starbucks to to um go through. Well, I'd like to ask staff on some of the things Miss Bush brought to your attention.
um legal actually is can you separate this ordinance to where it wouldn't have an impact on the oine plan? I mean could that be done? Uh yes. Yeah. I mean these are so so these are just
treat think of them as zoning districts and the uses allowed in those zoning districts. So you're shifting you're not changing the the the list of uses that are allowed. you're shifting their approval processes, right? So, a lot of are allowed by right and then
we're creating a new process where PLLDRC is the final stop. Um, and the existing process of where a county council is the final stop. So, um, for anything that is currently a special exception, um, you can move the, uh,
level of authority either by by right, by conditional use, by PLDRC or remain with county council. So that's you know when you do that you can do that on a per zoning district basis. Okay.
All right then. Um should we take each one of these one by one and and get an opinion by this board or should we or should we just uh devise a list and either agree on it or not agree on it? Just to to say it out loud.
But I felt like Emily was very clear. I mean, as long as you guys are speaking into the mic, um, and you're specifically saying the use as it was described in the ordinance and referring back to specific zoning classifications. We've got this audio if we need to go
back and and reread it. Um, but Chris and I are taking pretty good notes as well. So, I just don't want to get lost between here and there. That's my biggest concern, you know? I mean, it's because a lot of times the presentation at the council level,
not intentionally, but there's certain things that it doesn't actually com convey between here and there. That's my concern. And then there, you know, whether they listen to our presentation, our discussion or not, I don't I don't
know. You know, I can't make them listen to it. We could certainly have a um a memorandum uh an addendum to the report that specifically lays out these are the exact uses that were described. Okay. That's just my main concern. Yes, absolutely. Okay. Miss Bush, you had
something else. Yeah, two things. one I whenever this does go to the council, can you let us know um what that date is going to be so that if we would like to attend and speak in favor or bring these
these issues forward to them that we're able to attend and do so. Absolutely. We're looking at August 5th now, of course, depending on what the result of these conversations are. Um so we're looking at that first meeting in August. Okay. I just want to make sure that's on my calendar so that I can be here to
talk about the changes that um I brought up today. Second thing, and I just want some clarification from the attorney, what what were we're proposing even keeping the land uses or the the land uses where they're at with the special
exemption still isn't meeting SB180. So, because right now we just have your your your category of uses are by right or by special exception all the way to council. Yeah. Um so anything that's on the special exception list goes all the
way to council. Um our direction was try to streamline things a little bit. So so in effect anything that the count that the ordinance is proposing is at the very least keeping the status quo which is permissible or making it less restrictive. You don't have to make it
less restrictive. You just can't make it more restrictive. So, you know, having it be heard only by council or having an item that is proposed by right to be heard by PLDRC is keeping uh within the allowance of SB180. Okay. The other
comment that I want to make um is and I'm saying that and I I guess when I was reviewing this I was sticking to what is existing and that is that these are right now reviewed through that special condition process which goes to the council. I don't necessarily think every
single one of these needs council review, but I don't think that it's appropriate for it to be allowed by right. So, I think that there are certain concessions that we can make to say uh a drive-thru for uh Starbucks right in Ostein maybe just stops at
PLDRC. Some of the agriculture uses stop at PLDRC don't necessarily go to the council because I understand they have lengthy agendas. they're trying to do general business for the council. We can, I think, as a body review that information and and weigh in and make
those approvals here um and not necessarily have to take that second step. So, if that helps um for those that might be on the fence as to some of the things that I suggested, then maybe those recommendations are they're not fully special exemptions, but they're not allowed by right that they are a
PLDRC review. And adding to that, uh, the what what what I like about what Miss Bush is saying is at least the public gets an opportunity to have some sort of input. Yes. And
that's where I'm at on the utilities. I want the public to have some sort of an input whether, you know, where some of these lift stations that nature goes. Yeah. I agree. But I I agree with her totally on that.
Okay. So, are we clear on the by right? I think that's going to be your biggest um hurdle. Do you want me to raise my hand when I need to to interject or is it okay if I No, you can go right ahead. Okay. Um so, what I would recommend is
for the uses where um you want some to go to PLDRC, some to go to council, we we do ask that you specifically state that um for each use. Um, so that would that would be very helpful for us. Okay.
So with at the end in our discussion, we'll we'll make a notation on each one that she went through and then we'll have that for you as part of the motion. Okay. Yeah.
And I'll let somebody else put that motion in. I'm keeping track, so I'm happy to make that motion. Okay. And I'm just going to say ditto.
Okay. All right. Now, let's um and Miss Shelley, if you'd like to interject any along the way, if anything else someone makes a comment on, feel free to do so. We'll try to get through this. Okay. All right. Our next would be the conditional
uses. would who would like is there anybody like to speak on those? Wait a minute. Did we go through all the buy rights? Okay. Yep. Okay. Got it. Any any see if I had a comment. Okay.
Discussion on the conditional uses. I have none. And PLDRC. I have a couple questions. Go ahead, Miss Bush. Thank you. Um, there are some asterisks on some of the like for campgrounds, temporary campsites, but I
couldn't find where the definition of that asterric existed in the spreadsheet. So, can you define why those are they have asterisks? Temporary campgrounds. Yes, there's a couple different examples, but that's Yeah, it's temporary campgrounds
because the spreadsheet was um condensed um from what originally went to PLDRC. So, I think those asterisks do um relate back to something that that wasn't necessarily relevant for the spreadsheet. Um
yeah, those are those are internal notes. Okay. um daycarees are listed um as by right and also under PLDRC and the zoning districts are the same. So I'm just
curious as to which one it is the number of students find those kind of things. Um just let us know um which one you you prefer to do and the number it's how many students
I think you mentioned did you not discuss in your I did not mention no I mentioned schools I mentioned schools not daycarees um by right um but it's but that's what my question was because I saw it listed as by right and
I had it originally uh and then it's listed under PLLDRC C. So I well I think it depended upon the on how large they are, how how many students they have, the size of the daycare. Okay. And is that I guess spelled out in the special
criteria in section 72-293-6. That's miss part. Yeah. uh numbered notations at the end of 293 refer to is um where it says daycare center special criteria C section 72-293 um parentheses six that number six is
where the special criteria are um the special criteria have not changed we did not go back to the criteria and change the criteria but we changed were the references to the numbers basically if that makes sense I was I was assuming
because I didn't go in and read all of the specialist the sections for all of these. I was assuming that that criteria applied across all of zoning districts. It does. So that's why I'm asking why the use is listed both by right in all of the same zoning districts and by PLLD
re um review with all the same zoning districts if they still have to meet all of those special criteria. So shouldn't that use be broken out to say under a certain number of students should be by right and over a certain number of students should be PLLDRC because right
now you're listing that land use as the exact same thing. Right? So, we wanted the criteria to apply regardless of whether it was listed in by a right conditional special exception. Um, because we're we're
entering some some fluidity in this, right? Um, and I'm assuming that we can expect other ordinances may come across. So, we really we just wanted to compress everything. So in by right uses
you still have to go through the permitting process, right? So if you have vacant residential lot and they want to put on a daycare center on it, they don't go straight to building permitting, they still have to go through the site plan review process which is outlined in the land
development code. So we do look at that 293 and we do that now. We have leases that are in 293 that we really mostly look at um or we only have to look at them when they come to development phase. So that was intentionally created
that way. Right. So go ahead. No, no, no. I'm just I'm I guess I'm I'm still confused. I am too because you're not you're not defining what what the Okay. Right. You're you're not defining whether or not it's it's less than or greater than a certain
number. Um yeah, they they were all together in the code originally and um we didn't get to that. There's a lot of state statutes that apply at those as well and we didn't get into the breaking apart of uses. Um
so we can certainly leave them the way they are or leave them as special exceptions. We have to be very careful when we break apart the uses that way again that we're not making anything more restrictive or that we're not breaking any federal uh rules by that
because it says it's can be compatible with the density and character of the surrounding residential area. But if we're allowing them by right in um A2, what's the what's the density there? Can they have two kids? like, you know, I I just I think we need some clarity on
what it is that you're requesting. Um, andor I think then we need to determine as a board what that should look like. And I'm I'm okay with it coming just to PLDRC, but it needs to be pulled out from by right by right um and just have
us do that review. Um I'm very familiar with daycarees. they can go into a residential property. Um, you know, it's it's meeting the outdoor space requirement. There are I don't know if the state adopted the ballards and the the distance separation from um vehicular traffic because of the um
unfortunate instances where cars have crashed into daycarees and killed children. Um, and that's again another concern of mine is just by allowing this by right, are we allowing it on a major thoroughare with a 55 mile hour per hour speed limit that puts these kids in harm way or are we allowing this by right in
a in an area where they don't have access to the outside to a playground area? And again, I I understand that you guys do that review, but we need to make sure that that's compatible with the surrounding land uses. So that's why I didn't mention in the by right because I wasn't sure. I felt like it should be
more restrictive and within the PLDRC. Um, but again, where is it now? Because right now you have it listed as it's existing in both of those in in both of those categories. So, or is it special exemption in all of those? Right.
Well, and I I'm wondering if I don't don't know if I understand your your question correctly. So in the the B business uses and the OM and S SWC it's byite whereas in the A and the R4 etc. Um and that's consistent with what you
see on page one and page four. So where it is allowed now is is correctly identified. It's the recommendation is uh what I need input on. Right. And I guess because you have this PLDRC depending on the number of students, but
you don't have that in the by right component. So that's why I think I was confused as to is there a are you saying that with 50 students or less then it can be by right within these zoning districts or 25 students or less. And I have no issue with that. If it's a if
it's a small daycare, an inhome type facility, uh maybe like a a home occupation or business that someone's trying to operate and they only have five or six kids. I really don't feel like that's a huge impact and we need to really review that. But if it's greater than that then absolutely and so that
was not consistent in the spreadsheet which is why I'm asking the question. Um certainly if we want to talk about the number of students that can be part of uh your your motion or your recommendation. Um
okay. Um and then anything else in the PLDRC section? That was it. Thank you, chairman. Anybody else? The buy, right? That was okay. Uh council, it comes through review for us regardless if it's going to council or
not. I mean, I have none. I felt like Yeah, this was me either. These uses were pretty right pretty extreme. So, they should have council review. Okay. So, have we had all of our questions answered that we need to make a motion?
Okay, Miss Bush, take off. Oh, thank you. And uh let me put it this way as she goes through the list and if anybody disagrees or wants to make a comment on the the specific one that she has, would you mind stopping your motion
and and let's Yes. do that? I don't think you're going to have it, but just in case because I don't want to. So, just clarification on the daycare thing. Um, it's 10. So, and and that is because of state statute. So, a family daycare
home is defined under state statute and and um there's a whole bunch of numbers, but it's like a maximum of 10 children if no more than five are preschool age and of those five, no more than two under 12 months of age. Those are
preempted. Mhm. So, uh the statute says that um a local government must allow these as a residential use in a residential dwelling and no special exception provisions can apply for a family daycare home. So, that's why it's
it's it runs you don't see a number because we have to comply with this statute which is you know it's 10 if you meet those criteria but anything above that can be by PLDRC approval. So the the use that you listed is family family
daycare home. Family daycare home. So I went through this when the um state preempted community residential homes and like ALFs and supportive uses within residential. We had to go in and redefine our land uses accordingly. So
that's I think what I'm going to make the recommendation on is that you define that um and say family. Let me write that down. family. So, so when we just say daycare center, um our definition for daycare center specifically says
does not include the family daycare home provisions because that's uh I think the intention was that is it recognizes the preeemption of the statute. Um, but I mean we could essentially say that
a family daycare home could be allowed by right within rural residential um or other zoning districts like agriculture if appropriate if it's under 10 students. I feel like that could be allowed by right. Those aren't
residential districts, right? So, I think that's why it should be defined differently than a daycare and that staff should make that effort to separate the two uses like we did with community residential homes. So, the statute doesn't care about the zoning. It says the operation of a residence as
a as a res of of a residence regardless of wherever whatever zoning is in as a family daycare home as defined by law registered or licensed with the department of DCF or shall consult a valid residential use for purposes of any local zoning regulations and no such
regulation shall require the owner operator of such day family daycare home to obtain any special exception or use permit or waiver or to pay any special fee in excess of $50 to operate in an area zone for resident residential use. So if the zoning allows a residential use, we have you have to allow the
residential dwelling to operate as a family daycare uh home as provided by the statute. Well, can that line where it says daycare centers in the by right section state family daycare center? Yeah. Yes. Yeah, we provided in the
definition. So um Yeah. And you because you already have a definition of the family daycare center. So that puts a number on it. So why can't that just say family day care center in the by right section and leave the dayare? Oh, okay.
Yes. Yes. Leave the daycare in the PLDRC. PLDRC. Yeah. Thank you. That's Yeah. I mean, can't we just do that? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Complicated. Overthinking this here.
I I hope that I can do this. Family. Governor. So to clarify, I'm making a motion to um to send this to the council with the following recommendations. Did I did I begin that correctly? Okay,
I'm going to continue with that now because I don't want to repeat that. Um state the ordinance though. H Okay, let me try again. Um this is We'll help you along. We'll get it figured out. Thank you. They'll have to write it up when it's done. So, um, recommendation of
approval for ordinance 25-006 with these recommended changes as follows. So far so good. I thought it was ordinance number 202520.
No, did I not have the right one? I thought it was zero. Oh, it's that's a type of Yeah, it's 2020. Oh, it's 20. Okay. It's stated wrong on our it's wrong on the agenda. We have an ordinance number and then you have an internal file number. The internal file
number is Yeah. Internal case number is 25. Okay. So we want to say the ordinance referring to ordinance number 25-20. So so recommendation of approval of ordinance 2025-20 with the following recommendations.
Okay. Third times the charm that automobile use both rental agencies and service station type A, service
station type B and service station type C remain a special condition, special exemption, I'm sorry, within the OCV and OMV zoning districts.
Any comments? Yeah, go ahead. Interject. We Let's get this right. Comment that is a special exception approvable by PLLD or C or by council. Okay. Thank you. Um that would it still be called a special exemption? Okay. I the lingo matters. We
didn't have special exemptions. I just dealt with conditional uses um with review by PLLDRC. Okay. Step one. So, you're saying all automobile, regardless of if it's an
OMV, I mean, regardless of if it's an OAN or the OMV, you're saying if it's an OCV or OM, all the others. No, she's saying that the the zoning classifications if it's out of the OMV or OCB
would go by, right? Is that what you're saying? No, we didn't. Yeah, she didn't say that. No, I it said would be reviewed by PLLDRC. Would not be by That's our recommend recommendation. So, you're taking all those zones. I thought we were just doing the OMV. Well, the OCV is Ostein commercial village, right?
And the OMV is the Ostein mixeduse village, right? Ostein mixeduse village is on one side. Oh, they're both the OC. Okay. They're both Oste Okay. I was I was reading below with something else. Okay. Are we clear as mud? No, we're clear.
Okay. Okay. So, that was automobile. I'm going to move on to car wash. That's going to PLRC is what you were saying. Not by right. Cor. Well, anyway, did just say Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Not by right. Gotcha. Okay. So, car wash
the recommendation is that um the OMV zoning district would be PLLD RC review and not by right. Okay. Cluster residential homes would
not be I'm sorry cluster and let me refphra cluster and zero lot line subdivisions would be a PLDRC review for the rural residential zoning district not by right
dare Dairies. Can you scroll? Okay, perfect. Dairies and dairy products with special exemption and a minimum of 5 acre parcels will be reviewed by PLDRC if they are
located in the A3 or A4 zoning district. And why not OCR? That is the I believe that's Ostein, correct? OCR. So I can add that if you would like.
I mean I I just put all three of them in there since that's already there. Yep. So include OCR as well for PLDRC review for dairies. Okay. I'm going to tackle daycare centers
that we're adding family day. Just adding family dayare. Correct. So family daycare home centers. I say centers. Well, we'll stick with the state statuto definition. Family dayare home. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um family daycare homes
um would be allowed by right in every zoning district that allows residential uses. All we have to say is by right because it's including all those. Correct. But daycare centers, right? But you said
family, so we're not there yet. Well, I'm at daycare on the right section. We're going to just change that daycare to family family dayare. So, we're just amending that definition. That it's by right. Understood. So, amending I'm
making that clear, Carol, or anyone correct. Do I need to change that? Okay. You know, so we're changing the terminology from daycare centers to family daycare home off streetet parking. You could
off- streetet parking areas would be a PLDRC review in A1, A2, A3, A4, RR, R A
and do I want to ask the rest of the council, do we want to include the rest of those zoning districts? Those are residential mobile home and SWC. I don't think so because either I think
we Yeah, I think we're making it too complicated. What was the purpose of that being not by right that that you from what I understand and correct me if I'm wrong that off- streetet parking areas are um like pay to park like
they're just parking lots that you pay not necessarily storage um but they could they're not usually tied to another use the special exceptions that I've seen for off- streetet parking areas it is tied to another use um I'm thinking of some areas where if your residential
next to a business. Um like for instance restaurants, the last one I can think of where they had their parking overflow parking was across the street which was in the residential zoning. Okay. So it could be pay for parking but it could also be that other scenario. Okay. I'm
just concerned because if it can be pay for parking that that is not necessarily compatible with at least the agriculture uses which is the argument that I made. Um, and that's why I included rural residential and rural agriculture in
those in that recommendation. But I'm happy to discuss that if anybody feels if you want to add the MH1 and the U to MH1 to MH68 and leave SWC. What is the S SWC?
Yeah, it's defined SWC in the activity center. So it's only there. It's only there 724 zoning area that you're talking about. It's a there's the Southwest Activity Center is an an old DRRI. Um it's at the
intersection of State Road 472 and I4. So that's where the Deltona Halifax Hospital is. Yes, they are. Yeah. And I think that's fine by Right. Yeah. So um but Okay. So I'll in Leave that one alone. Well, I'll but you want me to
include R1 to R9 and MH1 to MH8? No. No. So, in residential, there could be a paid parking lot next door to a residential property by that what we're saying. Yes. Well, if we're going to do that, I don't see this reasoning for I thought it says it's
only in the SW. No, no, no. It's it's off streetet parking areas. It's not You're looking at the second one. It's the one above that. But what what I'm thinking Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we can do that. But the off- streetet parking,
what's the reasoning behind the A1 to A4 because that's not an agriculture use and someone could come into a 10acre lot and make that a paid parking lot and that would have making an agriculture zoning more restricted than the No, no, no, no.
I'm saying that what this is saying is that it would be allowed by right and what it currently says is that it's a special exemption and I'm saying that it needs to be at least reviewed by PLDRC if they're going to put a paid parking lot in an agriculture zoned property because of the traffic. I agree with
that. Okay, that's not what I how I was reading this. So, okay, if that's what it is, I agree with you. I mean, staff, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how it's reading is that that in in these zoning districts, A1 to A4, RR, RA, R1 to R9, and the mobile homing zoning
districts that somebody could come in and take a piece of land and do paid parking. But if they're paving, wouldn't they have to? Council's got to review this approval. Council's got to approve the final. You can't just go pave. So, let them hash that out,
right? You would to do that. If it were allowed by right, you would have to go through the site plan approval, which is at the staff level. It does not go to any hearings. So, the public would not That is a possibility. Okay. So, the public would not be able to participate
in determining whether or not that you should be compatible. I'll go with you. Okay. So, I'm going to add R1 to R9 and MH1 to MH8 as PLDRC review with the rest of those zoning districts.
Okay, next I'm halfway through poultry farms. Um, so remove so poultry farms should be reviewed by PLDRC. Well, and I guess this is a conversation. Should poultry farms
because hog farms are right now a a special exemption and still within the county council purview? I feel like a poultry farm is very similar to a hog farm. Um, and so I don't think they
should be allowed by right within the A3 and A4 and maybe even the mobile home three and the OCR since we made that kind of clarification um with the other agriculture use and that that should be
reviewed through um county council and not just PLDRC because of the intense agriculture use. Happy to discuss that. But that would be that would mimic hog farm. Yeah, I'm I'm good with you on that personally because to me that's not
just having chickens for your own use for your you know eggs in your backyard. This says poultry farm which to me is different. Yeah. It come for it would come for review for a recommendation through us before it
gets to them anyway. Correct. And that's the way it exists now in the code. So I would just leave it. I'd agree with that. Um, okay. public utilities
um would be a PLDRC review or for all of the zoning districts currently listed in the special condition the special exemption category but chairman please correct me if yes as long as we get some public input on
these uh public utility uses I think it's important that the adjacent property owners have a say. And I'm not talking about a water man. I'm not I'm talking more or less the lift stations for the sanitary sewer.
So yes, I think that definitely needs to be made where the public has an input. It can stop at the PLRC level. I agree.
Okay. Um, restaurants with drive-thrus uh would be reviewed through PLDRC in the OCV and OMV. Okay. Um, retail sales and service
greater than 15,000 square feet per structure would be reviewed by PLDRC in OCV and OMV. Riding stables should be reviewed by PLDRC
within the A3 A4 zoning district. I am open to adding MH3 and the other three zoning districts that follow, which are
trying to find them in here. I don't even know what those are. Yeah. What What is OTR? O R E and OCR. I think the O OCR is Ostein, right? So those are in Ostein. Osteining. It's the Ostein trans
transitional residential and the OEN residential estate. Okay. They're larger lots. So I think then we should include MH3, OTR, OE and OCR for PLLDRC review.
Okay, sure. Yep. So, the retail sales and services greater than 15,000 square feet. We've got that. Um, go to PLDRC. What about the retail specialty shops that are great greater than 15,000? Ah,
thank you. Yes. I would like to make the recommendation that those specialty shops greater than 15,000 square feet get PLDRC review because Skips is less than 15,000 square feet. So that wouldn't qualify.
Okay. schools, parochial or private, to have them reviewed by PLDRC in FR, A1, A2, A3, A4,
RR, and R A as well as O T R and O R E. Those are the more agriculture larger lot parcels.
Am I missing any? Is there a reason you're not including the on the residential side? You said, did you include R9? I did not include any of the residential zoning districts um at this time because if it's a small
private school, it could probably go in there, but I can I can certainly amend that and remove I just uh was really the agriculture because the definition of the schools parial or private we it doesn't specifically say what type
of a school you were dealing with if and to be putting into a residential neighborhood if the type, you know, cuz you can have all people construe these definitions sometimes and well, it's a school and really it could be something
else. I mean, the intent was something else. It may be considered a school, but maybe something I don't want next door to where I'm living. At least I would have some sort of public input on that.
Um, if you're going to do it through the agricultural side, I think you should just require to go through a review. Okay. Um, so that will also include R1, R2,
R3, R4, R5. Just list them all. R six, R seven. Just do we want to do them all? Including the business. The business side I wouldn't be that concerned about. Yeah. So R8, R9, MH3 through 6 don't want a school. MH8,
uh, OCV, OMV, O R, OTR, O R E, and OCR. The other is at Southwest Activity Center, and I can't see where it'd be a problem there. I agree. Um, and that, if I didn't state it for the record, would be PLLDRC review.
And I have this list, so if you want me to send it to you afterwards, I can. Um, swim clubs should be PLLDRC review in I'm going to say all the zoning
districts listed for special exemption. and your reasoning for that. Um there usually there is um a pool associated with it. Um there are trainers that are teaching, there are traffic impacts,
there are lighting if the school if the swim club operates in the evening hours and some of that lighting can impact neighboring residential properties. Um, so, okay. But I'm thinking I just don't see
that being being something that's going to be a rash of I mean I know lots of swim clubs and I know where they are and they're not out in the I mean they want to be in the hub. They want to be in the core. They want to be and what what if it's the
infant swimming? Well, that usually people do that in their private pool. Yeah. They swim in the club. Yeah. or it's in like the YMCA where they're designed and design. I wouldn't care if someone was doing infant swimming in their home pool. I don't Does swim clubs Yeah. I don't think that means Well,
well, he brought it up. I I don't think that is a swim club. No, that's what I'm asking staff. I don't think that that includes the swim lessons for littles. But a swim club takes a big, you know, there swimming meets. Yes, I know. I'm involved with swim clubs. Yeah. Business
uses. I just don't see them in there. built for business use of swim clubs. In no way does it affect the ancillary residential uses right on a residence. Yeah, that's what I I mean it just doesn't Yeah. But if somebody were to
buy an agriculture piece of property, then this if this change is allowed by right, they'd be able to open a swim club without having any public input. I won't fight it, but and it was for all the zoning districts
that are listed. Okay? So instead of special exemption going to council, it would stop at PLDRC review. And then the same goes for tennis clubs. Those are the same. So the tennis clubs, those zoning districts listed for
special exemption would be reviewed through PLDRC for the same reasons I listed for the swim. I don't think we'll have a rash of people applying. Tennis is popular. I don't think it'll line up our agenda. Oh my gosh. Another swim
club. Agreed. Next to a tennis club. Are you doing both? Um, and that concludes the recommendations. Or at least Did I miss any? I I had the one about the hunt clubs. Oh, the hunt
clubs. Yes. I apologize. I'd like to see that go at least to PLDRC. So the hunt can you scroll up to hunt club for me? Actually I can see it. I think I think with the hunting under camps the camp camps that's just for a
camp. The camp meaning that people where they stay overnight dur while they're doing their hunting or congregate during the day while they're hunting. We still have local ordinances that prevent the actual
shooting of guns in residential areas. Oh, no, we don't. We do not. Um, we that experience. No, I'm I'm saying that to so to to to be very clear. We don't. The state has preempted the entire field on the
regulation of ammunition and firearms. you can regulate construction of shooting ranges. Um, and you have to treat businesses that sell firearms in the same way as a normal business. We do not at all regulate
um, you know, the use of firearms or the caliber of ammunition or anything like that. Um, so a hunt club is you're regulating the development. You're not rel regulating the activity or the usage of firearms or ammunition. Okay, Miss Greg.
there again. Now, um that use of firearms in a residential district, that is a state statute that's governed by the sheriff. Um there's thresholds of you know, you need to know the density. So that is a first secondderee misdemeanor or if you
recklessly do it, but once again, that is not a county ordinance. That is the state statute. Okay. Okay. So then we will add to the recommendation uh camps hunting that in RC, A1, A2, MH3
and OCR that that is reviewed by PLLDRC. Okay. Does that conclude it? Anyone else? Anybody? Okay. Okay. That was my motion. Do I have a second? Yes, you have a second. Third. I
got Okay. I got a motion on the floor for Miss Bush and to refer to forward the Cordis 2025-20 to county council
with the following recommendation as was stated previously by Miss Bush. Good. You're not going to reread it. and staff has taken note of and a second from Miss Shelly and Mr. Ersen and Miss
G. No, Miss Shelley did speak in first, so I'll go recognize her. Miss Shelly, u any discussion on the motion? Just thank you for allowing me to go through these with a fine tooth comb. I know I was not
a part of any of these discussions and the workshops leading up to it, but um I appreciate the opportunity to bring my concerns forward and for you all to hear them and to forward these recommendations to the council. Um I will do my best to be there on August
5th um to present um the reasoning for these if that's not in the minutes um to the county council so that they understand all of our concerns, including the ones that I didn't bring up as well. So, thank you. Okay. Any other comments?
Okay, we got a motion on the floor. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Um, so Mr. Chair, about that. Um, so it's August 5th. This will require two hearings before council because uh
you're changing the list of uses. Uh, one of which must be a night meeting after 5:00. Um, I don't know which one is going to be the night meeting, most likely the second meeting. Um, uh, I would recommend if
more than one of you are going to attend those council meetings, um, please let us know so that we can kind of notice that the two or more members of the PLDRC may attend and and speak and so we wouldn't have we're covering you in
terms of sunshine. That's basically it. Okay. Um, how much how much notice would you need? Reasonable notice. I mean, for us to let we're going to be there. Oh. Um, uh, it's if if more than two, just say that
because we just cover the entire PLDRC. Literally, it's just going to say, you know, two or more members of the PLDRC may attend and participate at the county council public hearing. The day before, the day of, when would we need to let you know? Um, three days. Okay. Three days is
reasonable notice. Can I put you on notice that I will be there August 5th? Yes. That's a day meeting. It is. And I if not the evening, I'll move my schedule around. But that gives you that gives the county council time to make those revisions staff to bring that ordinance back um for those updates for
that night meeting and for public adoption. I understand that. Um just remember that you know these are all uses that now go to special exception at county council. So whatever we've decided whether it's you know
going to PLDRC instead of byite that's still a reduction. So thank you. Okay. Do we have that covered Mr. Sora? Yes. U I more than likely I'm I'm not going to
be there because Miss Bush obviously is going to cover it very thoroughly. Okay. All right. Are we done with that? Okay. Do we have any other That concludes the
new business. Do we have any other public items? No sir. Do we have any staff items? We do. And Miss Christian Ray is going to go over one of your requests from uh last meeting was the mobile home square
middle and floor area requirements. So, uh Yolanda just passed out a little memo. Uh I did some research with the um surrounding counties and their minimum floor areas for the mobile homes. Um, as you'll see there, um, I went through,
excuse me, uh, Brevard, Flagler, Orange County did have some, uh, minimum floor area requirements for their mobile homes. Uh, however, Seminal County, Putnham County, Pulk County, and Marian County did not have any minimum floor area requirements for their zoning districts uh, for mobile homes.
I'm available for questions if you have any for the memo. Who brought that up, Miss Bush? Did you? Yep. I brought that up. Okay. So, did you this clarify what you needed on that? Um, I mean, this is great research. So,
thank you for this. I would I know that we're not cities, but I would have also liked some larger cities to be included in there. Some don't have mobile home zoning districts. Some do. Um, and I know that in some of those areas, it might just be just in the future, right?
This is very um succinct, but it seems like the average is 600 square feet. Am I correct in kind of just assuming that based on all the numbers presented? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um that being said, I think I brought this up originally that
that resident that wanted to put in that mobile home and I believe it was five it was 500 and change like 640. I think it was 680. I think it was 40. Not not the one today. Okay. This was the one last meeting, right? One in the Tramar
development that was in Edgewater about 6 Yeah, it was around 670 680 somewhere in there. Yeah. So, if if it um pleases this commission, I would like to make a motion to forward
a request to the council for them to review these square footage requirements and direct staff to amend the existing minimum floor area requirement for mobile homes in Valuchia County to be
compatible with our surrounding jurisdiction. predictions. What is our minimum now? 750. Okay. It varies in zoning districts. Um some
have the minimum floor area of 720 and that is a lot in our um MH3 to MH7 have the 720 ft minimum. Um and then MH8
and our bigger agricultural properties are the 750. So it's kind of it's a range. It's a range. Okay. Um, so then yeah, I mean that would be the direction of the county council to then direct staff to either review the ranges
that are appropriate for this zoning district andor eliminate the ranges and just have a minimum um for all of them. It seems like that is not necessarily compatible with Orange Flaggler and
Bvard, but Seinal and maybe some of the other counties since they don't have those minimum requirements. Maybe if we're trying to be less restrictive and we're trying to give back private property rights, then maybe that's the direction that council will give you. That's not for us to determine. Um, but
I would So, let me give you a second on that. Yes, she needs a second. Yeah, thank you. You need a second? gave the second so we can Okay, I've got a motion on the floor from Miss Bush to uh state your motion again. It was to um send
to ask county council to direct staff to review the minimum floor area requirements for the mobile homing mobile home zoning districts within Valuchia County to be compatible with surrounding jurisdictions. has got a motion on the floor as stated
by Miss Bush and a second from um Mr. Ersen. Any discussion on the motion? I think that definition is a little too um general. I think you need to, you know, go ahead and put out a a square footage and and then that way we
uh we know what the target is and anything less than uh gets a an extra hearing. But if we're trying to eliminate the number of of cases that we're listening to. Go ahead and make it 600 for instance and
um rather than make them do the work of figuring out what the what the surrounding areas are doing and put us in alignment with Yeah. Yeah. kind of what these guys are doing, you know. Um I I'm I'm okay with amending my motion to say at a minimum of 600 square feet,
but as staff indicated, there was a range already for the different zoning districts. So, I didn't want to put that in my motion to allow them the flexibility to determine what was best and the council to allow to decide what was best. But just we need to review it because
we're having people come forward to Well, this is just a recommendation for them to review and uh if they feel like they could need the specific uh square footage or more then they can make the adjustments at
that time. So, we could go ahead and put it at 600. Sure. Absolutely. I'll amend it to say that a minimum of 600 square feet. I concur. Okay. Thank you. All right. Any discussion on the motion?
All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Okay. Do we have any other staff items? Yes. Um, in the interest of trying to u make it
easier for you on uh looking at the agenda or getting the information, we have um clustered together our old iPads, Apple iPads um since we've all gone to
new computers staffwise and we can whoever wants one, we're not forcing you to take them, but if you'd like to have an iPad to carry carry with you or bring with you in case you don't want to carry the big notebook of papers. We do have those available to hand out to you to be
used. Um, and there's a little form we do need to have you signed on on the use of them. And if you'd like some instruction, we can certainly do that after the ultimate meeting. But we just want to provide that to you as a service if you're interested.
If you still want to collect paper, we're going to send you paper. But we're looking, you know, ways to save and here's an option if you're interested in uh taking a county iPad for use. Okay.
I don't do Apple. I like I like paper and I'm still waiting for the agenda to get reach my house. Me too. This is again another month and I live the closest. I don't think anyone got them and I
don't know what and I think that's probably to do more with the postal service as opposed to they were sent out the the time frame they're required to be sent and we I did talk to letter carrier about it and she said I am assuming that that the packages that are
sent to us are stamped here. Yes. if you take it to the post office, you can get a tracking number at the very least and and then that way it I think it'd be a little bit more encouragement on their part. Um or even to send them
signature required or you know uh receipt uh green card or something. Yeah. But it I mean it's just it's it's very frustrating to work with a you know this this ordinance was 224 pages long
and doing that on the computer was um difficult. Well, as Miss Shelley stated, she's never home, so I don't know sign for it. Uh but I mean it's okay that way. That's
fine. Oh, yeah. I I understand you know well what the other option would be two day wouldn't that be cheaper two-day rather than ass for it to be signed for I don't know postal fees but this is a problem you know if I knew that that this was going to be a problem I would
have driven over on Friday right and I can get at the same time I'm willing to do some around that and we had some discussion on this before and I think it was coming from staff that they wanted us to take it off the um
internet, but I we felt that there was a problem with that. And so because of taking notes, being in areas where you don't have good connectivity to the Wi-Fi, um
um chair, no, I would just, you know, Miss Summers, you um I send an email when the package is ready and right before I mail it. Um, when you get that email, I can just wait um to see if you want to. I usually put
in there, do you want to pick it up by this date? Um, when I send the email, you can just know that they're ready at the counter. I I don't know about the east side coming over to pick them up, but as I recall, the initial inter the initial email said that the package was being
sent and I forget if it was Thursday or Friday. And so I thought, okay, it should come Saturday, Monday, the latest. And I kept putting off when I was going to do my review of the P of paperwork, thinking it was going to come. And it didn't come. And it didn't
come. So, you know, once again, I feel like the post office has failed us yet again. And in order to preempt that continuing problem, I'd rather drive across the county and pick it up. I was trying to avoid that because I do
live in Orman by the Sea. It's a bit of a hike, but I'm a spoiled brat. Um, so I'll ask staff, what constraints do you have on you or is mailing them out? I mean, you can't do can you get a tracking? Can you get a expedited mail?
I mean, refer to Yolanda. She knows more about the mailing, but I know we go to our mail center downstairs. Well, I I was told that the packet would be ready by 12:00 noon yesterday. So, I had to change my evening plans to go through this entire packet the day before. Well,
Mr. Ericson, you told me um on Tuesday that you hadn't received your packet yet. Yeah. Um I sent the email that the package was being mailed last Thursday. Oh, yeah. I got that. And I waited, waited, waited. I got another email that they would be ready at 12:00 noon
yesterday. Well, um, when you told me that you didn't receive yours, I sent an email to all other members, um, one member actually said that they did receive it, but in an error, he did not receive it. So, um, I don't know where any of your packages ended up. Great.
But, um, as soon as he told me that he didn't have them, we went ahead and reprinted them. But I mean, like you said, the ordinance is over 200 pages plus the other 12. I don't want to
put anybody out, but I can pick mine up. I can make those arrangements. I mean, I can pick it up. Um, more so, I mean, on the east side, that's a little bit more difficult. Yeah.
I mean, the other option Oh, no. I'm not gonna go there. Okay. Yeah, let's get our stipen raised up, right? We'll make those extra trips. Mr. Ashley, that stipen hasn't changed in a long
time. You get $200 and $100 more than anybody else. Yeah, but you know how much gas the gas just went back up over to $3 a gall. It sure did. Well, that's something that's probably the council, you know,
budget is coming up. So, I don't think it's going to happen this budget year. So, here for what you ask for, they'll take it away. Or if you're like me, I haven't even gotten the stipen yet. Like, so, um, yeah, I'm in the same boat and I'm about ready to put that in the record. Yeah. Well, I I just did. Um, I
filled out two forms and nothing's happened. And I know that that takes time. What I was going to say is I don't need the packet. I do all of mine electronic review. There are a lot of council and commissions that only do electronic review. So, we are blessed that they are continuing to print those packages out. Hopefully, you're not
mailing one to me because I I literally recycle it every single time because I do my review online. Um, but I have a pretty good system. So, if anybody is interested in making that conversion, I am happy to review that system because it's notetaking. I use Google Maps. Um, it's a repetitive template that I use.
Um, and then I have a a good form of of keeping and taking notes. So, I'm happy to go over that with any of you if you are interested. Um, because it is time consuming. I do this on the weekend because I work full-time and I also serve several boards. So, I'm my nights
are um taken up. So I have to do it on the weekends and so I usually never wait for the packet for that reason because of my time constraints in order to provide the due diligence that I need to to to represent this position on this board. Um so I am happy to to do that if
you are interested. I don't think the Apple iPad is the I need an actual laptop. So that's just my thing and I'm I am an Apple user. I have iPads, minis, and bigs, um, and have the iPhone, but I prefer an actual laptop for those types
of things. I don't know if that's um, well, it's resource. We have them and they're they're mobile. They're very mobile and since you already getting links to it online to see at home as well as sending the hard copy. The idea, uh, well, then you wouldn't have to carry all that paper. If you made some
notes, then you have the information on a digital format that wouldn't take up a lot of space and heavy. Um, so we just we on staff some of our our computers switched over to laptops. So we don't need the iPads for our mobile use. So we
do have a number of them we've taken and and they're limited to, you know, the internet uh basically usage. So and that's where the information would be from our website. So we just thought we'd make that available to you if you're interested. We've used this at Beach City Hall for years. And the
reason I the Oh, I'm sorry, Miss Craig. Go ahead. And the minutes, will they also be available anytime soon? We're still waiting. That's why I was going to go next. Four months back on those. We're now four months behind. We are not. We need March. I looked and March,
April, and May I had access to was January. Okay. Um, Februaries were signed. March, April, and May are just finished review yesterday from the last reviewer. Um, and that's why they were not in your packet. Um, we were trying to get them
out Friday or Monday. Um, it didn't work due to work schedules. So, um, they will be all in your packet in July, including June's. Okay. Well, I'll I'll I'll make arrangements
to pick mine up because one of the reasons I like mine and paper is because a lot of times sitting here, I'll go back and forth, back and forth and I don't want to be consumed with pulling you up. I know some board people are quicker with their fingers than I am
the wrong key. But anyway, I understand I I used my computer also to look at I did look at the agenda and go through it. The minutes weren't on there, but that but we didn't have those today. Um but it is
nice to have it to make notes on and um to be able to go back and forth on more so than anything. So, I'll pick mine up. I'll pick mine. You don't have to mail You don't have to mail mine anymore. Either I'll pick them up or I have someone to pick them up.
Okay. Uh you may want to get with the other members and see how they prefer to to do it, but and they don't have to make a decision now, but it's not getting through the mail. And I'm not faulting you for that as much as I am the postal service because I know how
they operate. Um it'll be there. And for the record, please stop sending me the packet. Miss Emily, I do not mail you a packet. Thank you. because I've received it two times now and I'm like I don't know how many times I have to ask. So, thank you. Okay.
All right. Any other staff items? No, sir. That's it. Um, no, we have the memo about the uh US. Yeah, I'm I was going to bring that up. Okay. Okay. All right. I'll bring something else up.
Okay. Uh, staff comments, commission comments. I have a couple. Go ahead. Thank you. Uh last meeting um I had discussed um and asked um to review the impervious
surface ratio um and tie it to zoning districts within Valuchia County. uh that is very much in line with how a lot of other municipalities um review the impervis surface ratio which is the um amount of coverage that
a lot has not just the building coverage but the parking lots and uh the accessory structures and things. Um I was unaware that I needed to make a formal motion. We generally agreed on this board. Um, but after speaking with staff on a different item, uh, it came
to my attention that I was not properly informed on the fact that I needed to make a formal motion. Um, so if you if I could, I would love to make a formal motion uh to um have the recommendation go to city council or county council to
um in to direct staff to review the impervis um and tie it potentially to zoning districts within Valuchia County in the hopes to reduce flooding on parcels.
that are not getting engineered reviewed. So that is my formal motion that I'm making and I would I'd love the Got a second from me. Thank you. Okay, I've got a motion to as stated by Miss Bush and a second from
Mr. Person. Any discussion on the motion? I would like to say that um rather than tie it to zoning d to maybe tie it to density
um I think density is more the zoning I can see where like you you know parking lots and things like that commercial zoning so we'll let it stand that but I would um my line of thought is to the uh
density more so impervious area because a lot of times the commercial districts have the ability for the storm water runoff to go to to the utility. Well, and and a lot of
times they are site plan reviewed. So, they have to have engineering. it it's more of um doing that due diligence for when they add certain things and they just go through DRC or they they just go through a building permit and it's not necessarily reviewed. If we tie it to
the zoning district, it does essentially tie it to the density. Um by doing so because the zoning districts vary in specific density um for example, residential in the city that I worked for was 50% imperous surface. So, you have to have 50% open space. Uh, and
that allowed for um drainage. And to be honest, that was because of the requirements that the St. John's Water River Water Management District had on the city for the overall impervious area. I don't know if those are restrictions or requirements on the county because it's such a big area. Um,
but for the city, we had to have those tied to specific zoning districts in order to have enough area for water to percolate, uh, and for us not to trip any thresholds for, um, flooding, um, which is increasingly occurring in our communities, specifically in
unincorporated areas. So, that's why I'm making the request, but again, that's really going to be up to council and their direction to staff, and hopefully they bring that back towards us for review. And it and it might in turn be tied to density. I think that's just going to depend on their research, but I'm happy to include zoning district
andor density in that amended motion. Uh, if that makes you feel more comfortable, chairman, that make him feel more comfortable with me and I have to and go ahead, M. Are you good with that, Mr. Erson? Um, and part of that
discussion I would Frank would kick me in the butt if I didn't mention this, but he's his concern was making it more regulatory lay another regulatory layer to the process and so as long as we all
keep that in mind also. Absolutely. Okay. All right. Any other discussion on the motion? All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously, so hopefully it gets to him this time. Yes. Thank
you. Okay. Any other I do have one more. I apologize. Um and this came up through um a couple different conversations with um some residents that I've had recently. Um as a lakefront property owner, the setback of 25 to 50 feet
depending um for wetlands is not enough. What we find especially in doing development um the experience that I doing development is that you have a a residential property or you have a commercial property you have something come in and they build with that buffer
in mind but then that buffer gets eaten away either by the homeowners cutting down trees and making a path to that water body and it's not protected um andor the commercial space just doesn't maintain it and it dies over time and that buffer is no longer in existence. There's a lot of research that has come
out recently, including through the St. John's River Water Management District, that states that 25 feet is not enough in order to truly create the space that's required for water to percolate when we have um high water events or big
storms. So, I'd like to make another motion to um ask council to direct staff to review the water um and wetland buffer requirements that exist within
Valuchia County. Second that. Thank you. Hey, I got a motion as stated and a second from Mr. Ersen. Any discussion on the motion? Thank you. Well, I do. But whenever you I understand what
your thought process is and I understand your concerns, but there are situations where the elevations from an upland whenever you put that greater buffer on,
you're get you're eating into a lot of the uh areas that really don't need it. So to have a specific setback and I don't know how they would ever adjust that to where and we I guess I guess what I'm trying
to say is what you're doing is a lot of times on the developments then when we get more water in an area that the development took took took then you those upland buffers become more greater because now you've got more water
sitting on the property in the wetland area and so where does this stop at and before it consumes all the property that a person may have adjacent to a wetland 20 years ago but now that wetland has
moved forward and now it's considered wetland and we don't have the buffer anymore and you just keep on eating at their property right so that that's where that's where I'm at on this I completely understand when we go through a site plan or entitlement process and we're looking at these setbacks these
setbacks are at where the water line remains today, not necessarily where it's going to be 10 years from now or where it was 20 years ago. Um, it's looking at existing conditions. Um, and I I understand your concern and but as we continue to reduce those buffers, eat
into those buffers and remove the required vegetation that helps soak up and sponge up that water. um by reducing that buffer in certain instances, we're not doing anybody any favors, including that specific parcel owner. Um so I
think for those that exist on you know water bodies um having that additional buffer and again that's something that it could be a variance that comes to us if the elevation is different and there is more uplands and they don't need that or they're bringing in fill um to make
that considered you know the the the difference in elevation included within that buffer. I think that's something that we can consider. Um, but it's like I said, someone that lives on a lakefront property. My property slopes and has a um a very um you know, it's
not it's not a big increase between the elevations. It's very gradual. And I think that additional buffer, especially now as we're starting to see more significant rain events and moreundred and 500year storms, is really critical,
not only for the drainage that's necessary, um, but for the protection of some of these properties that are being flooded and inundated or are being developed adjacent and are older structures and really do need that additional buffer. So, I I'm not trying
to be more prescriptive on some of these, but a lot of this has to do with, you know, PUDS and residential developments that I think could provide that additional buffer and help that native vegetation become and continue to be the appropriate sponge for the water
to be absorbed. I just have a quick question. Why are u I've been on planning commissions and done. Why can't we ask staff to bring that back? We've never I've never gone through a city commission or county council. You just ask staff to do it and you're saying, "Well, ask the why do
that? We're the planning. We like the thing before. Why is it going to the planning council?" I 100% agree with you. I didn't ask staff to do and they'll bring it back. It's something we're interested in. I was told that it had we had I was told by staff when I had this conversation with them when I
talked about well, you're looking into the ISR thing and they said no because you didn't make a formal recommendation to ask council to That's how it is here. I've never done that before. So I I'm also in agreements and the the PNZs that I've managed and run before, they've had the authority to ask staff to do these
things and then bring them forward. Um so this is really nuance, send it to the county council and they can throw it away, do what they want. That's how I've always done. I agree with you. Um so we don't start officially drafting
unless we got direction from county council. We're not asking you to draft. Yeah, essentially I am. Oh, you are. So, and we've done this before with concerns that these PLDRC has has raised information. You know, we we take the
the the concept brought up by PLLDRC presented to council and ask for direction. Um, administrative variances, you know, started here at the PLDRC after, you know, why are we hearing this? So we took that um we took it to
council um and sought direction and then we you know that direction is to staff to start drafting you know I understand that but I'm thinking I'm not asking to draft anything with drafting of course but I'm thinking it's just information to look at and say is this something we
want to investigate further. It's not it's just like you know here's here's what we have about this topic. um information is fine. Uh but it's it's the it's the you know uh marshalling resources to formally
draft an ordinance um is we're not asking you to draft an ordinance, right? If if you're just asking for information, I think staff can can provide that um from direction from this this commission. Or were you asking for an ordinance draft? I'm not ready for an ordinance. I I'd like to have some
information first. I don't disagree. I was asking staff to do the due diligence to bring that forward to us so that we could consider something like that similar to the mobile homes um research that Kristen brought us. So I I appreciate that and that's what my
that's what I thought my discussion was and what I brought up at the last meeting would do, but I was told by staff that that was that I had to make the recommendation in order for council to then direct staff to do that. So I'm just as confused as you are. um as to
why I'm needing to make a recommendation to make it so um difficult to ask for that information for staff to do that due diligence and research and for us to make that decision. If I was a citizen, I could come up just ask Mr. Ashley, you had something you want? Yes, I I just
got a a message and reminder from our resiliency manager that INRA, which is meeting uh is talking about wetlands. That's one of the things they're supposed to be doing and which you brought up earlier and they haven't directed staff because they're that's
who council directed to hey look at these issues and one of them being wetlands as well as the storm water issues and they haven't given any direction on buffers as well. So um I know that that's something that may be
the better route because council's already directed that group to look into that issue. um for maybe we can convey your concerns and say well buffers are certainly important u perhaps look at do
they need to be expanded uh and I don't know what circumstances in the norma or just normal buffers uh in general and then um you know maybe that'd be the route we could go is instead of us doing it because we're the environmental
staff's already looking into that fork to some degree So my only concern about that is that ENRAC seems to um be on a slower trajectory than we might be
uh in favor of. I can't agree with I I tend to agree. I had this conversation with the chairman as well of the county council and he was in favor of me bringing it to today's meeting and me making this recommendation for us to bring it to council. Um, he even asked if I could
make a presentation on those two items that I'm asking for the recommendation of approval or for motion or whatnot. Um, in order to present why I'm asking for these things and why it's important. The ISR ratio, to be honest, I think is a bigger impact to flooding and to some
of the environmental issues than the setback to wetland buffers is. And that is something that is not on ENRACK's radar right now. So, I do think that it's important for this board to work handinhand with ENRACK and staff. And I know that, you know, at a county level,
it's a little bit more siloed uh than at a city level, but at a city level, we we have those conversations among all of us so that we can make sure that we're doing the best for the residents uh and best for keeping um development continuing within the city as per the comp plan, which is everybody's
responsibility. Okay. Well, we have a motion, right? And we have a second. Um, unfortunately, I can't support it because I can't I'm not in favor of increasing buffers. U, but
that's just me. That's my opinion. So, um, we're going to take a vote on it. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? I tied. Which one is for the post? Mr. J,
I recommend doing a a show of hands or roll call or something like that. You want to do a roll call. [Music] Mr. Harrison in favor. Miss Craig for
it. Miss Shel, no. Mr. Mills, no. Miss Bush, yes. Mr. Sixma, no.
fails for affirmative vote. Three to three. Three to three. What does that do, Mr. Uh, the question fails. Question fails. We just let it interact. Okay. Any other commission comments?
Okay. Now, I'll make a comment here. Uh we've received an invitation from the United States Navy to send a member of the planning and land development commission for a um
review to I guess to watch Navy operations firsthand by spending a day with the on the aircraft carrier and and I just need um guidance. I mean, as far as I volunteer, too.
Uh, we do have to come up with a member of our PLDRC. So, um, I mean, I'm more than happy to take advantage of it. Um, the other thing too would be to uh we do need a um in the event that I wouldn't
be able to make it, we would like to have an al alternate um if it's so y'all uh are okay with me representing our PLDRC that leg.
Well, that's why I even altered it. We don't know what it is. They said this summer. So, I mean few more weeks I'll be fine. But so, um I'm in favor, chairman, of you being
the primary and Michel, if you want to be the secondary. Yep. I'm I'm in favor of that. I would love to do this, but I just depending on when it is. I don't know if they'd allow me on the ship being as pregnant as I am. So, might be a liability.
Okay. So, Oh, yeah. I'm sure they do. Yeah. What a cool opportunity though. Yeah, I think so. When I was told about it, I Yeah, I'll go. And then I said they said, "Well, how do you want to handle it?" I said, "I'd rather bring it in front of the
council to I mean the board to I'm just not going to arbitrarily say, "Yeah, I'm going." you know, but if you guys are okay with it, I would I would definitely do it and hopefully bring back an experience that we could all share in
mind. If not, not in person. I would recommend not singing in the Navy when you board a ship. Uh do we know who the council member is and the um uh the other growth and resource management person is? Uh not
not at this time. No, no. We don't even know when it is. Correct. No. Uh, basically just get the invitations, who's interested in it, and then coordinate from there or the location. Okay. Now, well, you go to Jacksonville to or Virginia. Or
Virginia. Yeah. Wow. You have to go to either Jacksonville or Virginia to be at your own expenses. We're not paying for that already. Okay. I wish we all could. that I think is a great opportunity.
Right. Okay. So, are we good with that? Who who is our alternate? Oh, Michelle. Okay. All right. Okay. Um, do we have any other
commission comments? Do we have any press and citizen comments? This meeting is adjourned. When are you realize Listen, I and I want to tell you per from a personal standpoint, I appreciate you
going over that as thoroughly as you did because I'll be honest with you, we looked at it and we there was some things that we did bring up. Uh whether it got through or not, I'm not sure. You know, this is why I was telling them I wanted it to go through as a motion.
Yeah. You know, so you know, I did this exercise. Sorry. And that's what it's Can you get it? I will I should have told her apologize for not bring Tucker as one of our new planners.
I was a little shaky on the first two fully kicked in yet. Tucker unfamiliar face. Here's the variances. You got any questions, let me know.