Notice requirements of the open public safety act has been satisfied with respect to this meeting. Specifically, the time, date, and location were included in a notice posted on our official website as per PL2025 >> C chapter 72 and posted on the bulletin
board of the administration building. Additionally, to the extent known in accordance with the open public safety act, the agenda for this meeting and whether formal action will be taken was posted in the administration building as per PL25 section uh 72 was also posted
on the official web official burrow website. Clerk, please take the role. >> Sorry about that. Mayor Mayor Gardana, >> I'm here. >> Mr. Bren, >> yes. >> Mr. Martinelloo >> here. >> Mr. Richie, >> here. >> Miss Smith >> here. Miss Wingay here.
>> Everyone kindly rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Have a moment of silence for all the
veterans, all veterans across our country who have given the ultimate sacrifice to serve our country so we could remain free and live in a society as we are living now. be in prayer. >> Dear Lord, grant us your guidance and wisdom. Let this meeting be conducive to
unity and fairness. May our actions reflect our agenda to that assists our burrow's needs, not our personal goals and needs. In his name, amen. >> Amen. >> Good morning everyone. Thank you for coming out to this meeting. Um at this time, anybody from the public would like
to comment, you could come to the microphone. Just give us your name for the record. Seeing none, we will begin with our unfinished business, the 2026 municipal budget discussion. Thank you. Good morning, mayor, and good
morning to the council for coming out this uh morning to discuss our 2026 operating budget. I'm joined here by Colleen and the Burough CFO. Uh we're here available to go through the operating budget after review from our office and present
presenting it to the council this morning for any questions and for your review. Uh Councilman Martinelloo will um assist in moving the conversation along as well as our council president and the chair of our financial
committee. Uh there are multiple handouts that you have in front of you that we'll be uh reviewing this morning. Uh we may be jumping around a little bit, but um feel free to ask questions. Some of the some of the handouts look very similar, but uh they're they're
different in uh in their numbers. Okay. So just want to give you a uh a preliminary starting point uh so that uh everyone understands how this process works behind the scenes and then how it gets
to this point. Our uh 2025 operating budget as adopted uh is our starting point for 2026. The review of that budget was conducted by myself, by Colleen, and Kelly, our
clerk. Uh, in going through the budget line by line, all 37 pages of it, we uh begin to look at what costs we know uh at this time have been already presented to the to the bureau
for uh 2026 numbers. We plug those numbers in. We then take a look at how we landed line by line uh in each account. Did we have a shortfall? Did we budget just right um and did we have
some fluff? Uh never fluff. Did we have some some extra just in case? So um we take a look at all of that. Uh it happens over the course of a few weeks and uh we pay really close attention line by line, department by department on these numbers. So uh what we present
to our auditor uh so that he can present back what the options are for the council in any given year uh is based off of our review. Um one of the first things I'll point you to in connection to that is the 2026
budget appropriations. It's a two-sided page appropriations on one side um I'm sorry on both sides. It looks like this. So there's three columns on there. um for the 2025 what uh was salary and
wages whether what our other expenses were line by line the total for 25 and then what our proposed budget is for 2026 and on the right hand side you'll see the variance so if we went up or down it's clearly stated there on the
left hand side you'll see the department um so we can start to go through there um if you'd like council Martinell Is this where you'd like to start? >> I would. I just want to for other members of the council as we look at the
2025 appropriations compared to 2026, you'll you'll see there there's not much difference um in the lines. The the biggest one that you'll have is, you know, uh our anticipated increase on um police salaries for our new contract. Um
that's in negotiation with them right now. That's the biggest increase. And the other one is what the health line um which is kind of baked in because it's broken up by department. Um right is there not a specific line that you could
point to but overall the health insurance has gone up a lot. >> There is actually one line. >> Which one is it? >> Which line are you looking at for that? >> Uh it's labeled group uh employee group health. >> I got Yep. So um
>> that's the 226616. >> So I was looking at the I was looking at the uh salary and wages side of it. So um the other expense we call it separately. So those two lines they account for 570,000 of our $766,000
increase from 26 over 25. Um so not a lot of wiggle room on any of the other lines because there just isn't that many um increases that we put in. any other lines that had uh any favorability last year, we already took those out. Um so
that's kind of my two cents on it. Um Tatiana, do you want to add anything about any specific line on here? >> Uh so a a little bit more on the background. Um this document um is after we do tweaks after meeting with our auditor. And so what happens is we
submit our recommendations. he submits back to us and lets us know where we are on two appropriate um on two important points, our cap uh and then our appropriations cap and our tax levy cap. So before we ever get to um a number to
present to the council, we have to look at whether or not we're over our caps. And in our preliminary numbers, we were over the uh appropriation cap and we were over the tax levy cap. So, we did have to go back to our working document
to look at what uh we could take out to get us uh to be compliant with both of those caps. In doing that, we removed a line item uh in the amount of $192,000 and that was able to get us to be compliant under the appropriation cap um
as well as the tax levy cap. Uh we tweaked some other items with the auditor to make sure that, you know, we were fully compliant. So, um there was initially 192,000 inappropriations um above what you see here on your chart
that you're reviewing. Um that's been reviewed uh that's been eliminated rather. So, in order to be compliant, that's what we needed to do. Um and the other she and and if you want to take a look at what that means exactly, you'll have two sheets in front of you uh titled 2026 budget appropriations
overview. They look like this. They look like the same sheet, but there is uh there are different numbers on them, two-sided. If you look on the back side, you'll see the analysis of the 2026 tax levy cap on top and then the analysis of the appropriation caps uh at the bottom
there. So, I will um note that before the removal of that $192,000, the tax levy increase um started at 12%. 12% uh is not uh doable because we were
over the caps. And that uh those two uh handouts that you have in front of you give you uh two options for the council to consider uh regarding the tax levy increase for 2026.
>> Yeah. So we had uh the auditor go back and run numbers based upon what would be the max we could uh increase taxes to get um to the number we need to that was at 10% because like uh Tatiana said their original numbers when they came back the
math came out to 12%. Which is uh not doable at all. So when they went back and run the numbers we did it at 10% which only had us cut one line. if we want to get even lowered down to 7%, we would have to go find other places to
cut more dollars out of this budget. Um, so the thing to keep in mind for all of us that we've been talking about the last several meetings when we're talking about the budget process is this also already accounts for using surplus. How do you generate more surplus is kind
of the education we went through a few days ago or a few weeks ago. When you have a budget, if you don't spend that whole budget, you have excess. That's surplus. So, the more we cut budget lines, the closer we get to that budget
every year. You generate less surplus. So, that's kind of what we've been doing over the past few years. If we do that again, we're only going to make the surplus problem even worse. And any lines else that we would want to cut on here, we're talking about services and
we're talking about people. Um, so that's kind of the the danger zone that I don't want to go to. I don't none of us really want to go down that road, >> right? Uh, and if you look at there's another four-page handout uh that you have in front of you. It's the 2026
comparative schedule of tax rates. At the bottom, it talks about your fund balance use for the burrow's use. Uh, starting in 2021 through 2025. uh you'll see them 2023 we had a turning point uh when we're looking at the usage
of our surplus. Um in general the burrow is um con consistently regenerating about 1.4 1.5 yearly but our usage of the surplus um has increased. At the end of 2025 we were at 2.5 million. Uh if
the bureau were to take no action and not do anything for 2026, we can anticipate that we would use an additional 2.5 million in 2026. Um and if you look at page three under the appropriation increase at the top,
you'll see the introduced budget versus um what we have this year. So the total increase we're talking about is 687,911 on the appropriation side and as the councilman noted before about 500,000 of that is just between two lines. So the
increase is extremely minimal on appropriations. Um we have multiple lines where the burrow has no negotiating power or very limited negotiating power. So there are bills that we receive every year that the bureau just must pay. Um whether it be
social security to the state. Um whether it's our health insurance costs to cover our employees, whether it's the bill that we have for the sewer authority. Um our utilities are not uh necessarily in question. Those, you know, continue to
increase same as you're noticing at home with all your utility costs. So, um, the point here is that increase is is substantially just is flat. Um, and that's that's where you find yourself
today and where the discussion leads on where the burrow wants to be in 2026 to address uh the costs that have continued to go up that we really have little control over. >> And I just want to add one thing on the the health insurance line. uh we talk about the increased costs to the bureau
in terms of um supporting those costs from the state. The other issue is that our employees are also getting increased rates. They also bear a portion of those increase just like any of us in our jobs. Our our health insurance goes up every year. Our borrower employees uh
health insurance is going up um potentially at a higher rate than wages. So that means our our employees bring home less pay um than they did the prior year in an inflationary um economy. That's that's tough, you know, for for
folks. So we have to remember that if we said okay this count the town has to bear more of the cost of health insurance that means pushing that cost to our employees um which is not not not workable for many of the people
that work for us and not something I want to do either. So, um, >> and in that regard, councilman, the council has been, uh, very helpful in trying to minimize that cost increase, not only to the burough, but to its employees. Uh, this is year two of the
council approving an incentive program for uh, any um, employee who has gone over to an HD plan. It is a savings right off the top to the burrow and then there is a savings um although you know minimizing a 34% increase in one year is
difficult there is some opportunity uh we took that program very seriously we held meetings with the with the employees and um a lot of one-on-one meetings to get employees to be comfortable to make that change. happy to say that last year um we only had two
employees who changed over, Colleen and I. We lead by example and this year we got that number up to 21. So um we hope that in this year's uh conversations if the state doesn't come through with any other support or relief for health
insurance that we continue to have those conversations with all our employees and continue to get that number up. So, um, that's something that the council has done in in trying to anticipate these increases. Uh, we are told that in 27 the increase is potentially 50%. So, uh,
you know, we won't know that for a while, but that's what we're looking at in terms of healthcare. >> Tatiana, I have a question. >> Sure. >> The $192,000 that was cut, where where did that come from? Is it
>> uh it's a terminal leave uh line that we have. Uh so in in preparing for um you know other scenarios or situations that might come up uh we like to put it there to prepare ourselves for anything related uh potentially to wages or um
you know folks who are retiring or leaving. They're all protected. The amount won't affect anybody who would be retiring, but um it is a bit of an a self insurance policy to to have it there. And and what does that mean if we don't have it? Um you know, potentially
in 26 we might have to do a special emergency and kick a portion of that amount or whatever amount would be needed uh to the 27 budget. So uh we like to prep ahead of time and like to limit any emergencies that we put through. And as you remember that 190 got us from
12 down to 10 >> and compliant with our caps which was you know the number one uh the first step uh but yes it did reduce us from 12% to 10%. Uh, you know, something to keep in mind, our budget is uh is small.
Um, anything about 200 or 500,000 in either direction is impactful in our budget and um we start to really um scrape the barrel if we're if we're going below that. And it's it it doesn't put the burrow in a
position that uh you know, we're prepared for what could come in that particular year. I think uh next thing Tatiana I'd like to talk about a little bit and you'll jump in after I started is from the auditor giving us two different proposals at 10 and seven. What are the
differences that we have to do to get to seven if if 10 is an unpalatable number for the council. The first thing is 10% uh assumes surplus anticipated of 2.2 million or 2.25 million.
At 7% we're using 2.5 million which is the same number we used last year. So um >> right your biggest >> to use a little bit less surplus. >> Correct. >> Next year 7% we still have to use the same thing we used this year. When we
looked at this year's numbers 2.5 we regenerated 1.6 million in revenue. So we lost 900,000 in surplus this year. So, if we stay on that same path where we anticipate regenerating 1.6 and we
use 2.5 again, we lose another million dollars off of our surplus. And council, they um there's charts in front of everyone uh on the large sheets. Um and that gives you a scenario uh with some assumptions at the top, but fact-based assump assumptions uh based on
appropriation increases every year. um and what that looks like if you lock into a 4% tax increase every year versus a 10% and uh the direct effect on your surplus. And um the the the auditors uh
made it clear that they want the mayor and council to understand that we are at a point in our budget that this surplus amount and usage uh needs to be understood uh very clearly by the
council and uh what steps can be taken to minimize usage of surplus just given the trajectory that that we're on right now. Um, if you have any questions on that uh spreadsheet, I know Mike can answer anything specific to to that
sheet. If you want to take a few minutes to just take a look at it, if you want to give them some more background. >> Yeah. Could I just maybe just to provide like a 30,000 foot background here? So, the budget, the operating budget has three structural kind of components,
right? So, the first component is how much do we spend as a burrow, our appropriations, right? I think Joe and Tatiana did a really nice job explaining that a lot of the expenses that are going up are out of our control, right? It's insurance. Uh, unfortunately, we have to negotiate a new contract with
the police. So, those expenses go up. But I think as a burrow, what you see when you look at this, we cut wherever we can every year and we keep what's in our control flat if not not negative, but the costs just keep going up. So, how much do we spend then? How much do
we bring in? Right? We bring in money through taxes and we bring in money through fees and you know construction fees and and grants. And right now there's a $2.5 million gap between what we spend and what we bring in. So we
offset that by using our surplus and we have a $6.5 million balance in our surplus right now. And at the rate that we're going, I think by 2031, we'll be out of money. We'll be out of
service and that gap will still exist. So >> our auditor is now telling us this is serious. >> Um and if we don't taxes by 10%. And just to give you a benchmark, I think last year was was
three or four. Uh the year before was a one. So 10% is pretty unprecedented. If we don't increase that to 10% um we're we're we're in really we're really in rough shape. It's going to accelerate the draw down
of that surplus. So um yeah. So the the model here shows that by with a with 4% increases which is what we've been doing the last year or two of 4% increases we would draw down surplus
to basically less than zero by 2030. Um but if we increase taxes 10% every year for the next six years we'll be okay. That's what the two models tell us. >> Yeah. And I don't even know on the on
the math what we're allowed in tax increases even if 10% a year is even allowed. >> So it depends on the caps things change. So that's just a projection as to what and Mike is being kind of uh
conservative with a 3% increase on cost >> because it could be more based upon what we get from the state. >> This year is a 6% increase in cost. So this financial model assumes a 3% which which would mean we would also in in addition we would also say
yes in in both of the scenarios being presented to the council we are using cap banks and when you use your cap banks um and you don't regenerate them as quickly as we used to that's uh a component to getting to the number that
we need to be at this year. And so there are a bunch of different buckets and some tools that can help us. This year we're using every tool essentially available to the burrow to help us get to that 10%. Uh and then potentially the
7% depending on it really comes down to usage of surplus. That's your big difference between the 10% and the 7%. And just keeping in mind that the leaner the appropriations are, and we've uh we were lean last year. This year um even
more so, we will very likely have very little to put back into surplus at the end of of uh you know, the usage of that budget. And so um you know, that's something that we've uh it's working against us. I I'll put it to you that way.
>> A couple other notes. So, one, just so everybody doesn't point to what's happening in Walton. This is happening all over Bergen County. Um, small towns everywhere, some towns are luckier that they have more ratables or they have more commercial properties that they can
offset some other things. Think Pamis um you know, think Mwa, they have a lot more u commercial properties. Other towns out there are in the same boat. You're seeing in the news items about board of educations in towns like Montlair and Hok is right around the
corner who are having special elections to increase their appropriations for for those uh specific reasons and they're all noting the same thing healthcare. Um so we're not unique in that. Um second question I have is more for Tatiana. If
we told you as a council we don't want to do 10%, we want to do 7%. And that means you need to cut another 250,000 out of our budget somewhere around there. Correct. >> Yes. And I and I just don't know that we
can do that without them looking at um without cuts in potential services um in employees. Uh we would have to start to look at those those avenues. That's the reality of where we are right now. >> I don't think that there's any way to
cut from this budget without cutting services. is unfortunately where we're at. >> I do not want to cut employees. >> No. >> Already bare bones as far as employees are concerned. >> It is. And and for us to get you below that level would be uh fiscally
irresponsible us. We would put you and the bureau in a position that emergencies uh could potentially come up. We had one in 25 that got kicked to 26. Just keep in mind every emergency that you put on is just how you start next year's budget process. And so you're already right off the top looking
at at uh potentially high numbers. Uh we don't have a crystal ball. I wish we did, but uh we really do not feel comfortable cutting this without any other um you know bigger decisions to be made by the council in terms of services. Uh this is the number where we
feel most comfortable. As Joe said before, I just came back from a mayor's uh meeting and all the mayors in this area, they they were all talking about how they are running their town next this year bare bum. Every mayor and
council has done the same uh decision they have to make like we are and every town is bare bum. >> And we we are being told that the state of New Jersey uh presumably our state aid will be flat. We get about 2.4 4 million 2.4 million from the state of
New Jersey. But uh you know we as we get into we go into this process we're always hoping that the state comes through and they give us relief. Um very very minimal relief this year and uh good that they're not cutting the state aid but uh no increase on that end.
>> Yep. And I know a lot of folks will come up and ask questions. What about grants and what about uh those things? So those grants that we apply for, which we just did, 1.5 million. Those grants that we apply for that, those are for specific uses that we have to do. So we want to do work on the sewer system. We want to
do work on the water system. We can go and look for for grants like that. There are other small grants you can get for fire protection things that we do every year. We we go out and get those. There's not a grant that can come in and say pay for your employees. That doesn't that doesn't exist,
>> right? So you have to pay for your employees through town revenue. >> Okay. >> And those grants also require match >> matching costs, >> right? And you bring up a really good point. Um most grants are related or many of them are related to capital projects. So here today we're not talking about the capital. We already
spoke about capital, but the capital projects um and and this year the bureau will be going out to bond probably in October. And when we start that process, they're going to take a look very closely at what our surplus is. And our bond rating uh could potentially be
affected. Uh we have the bureau has generally tried to stay flat in in the bonds. So as we drop bonds off and we pick up new ones, the uh increase to the residents is uh is fairly flat.
With the increase to capital projects, that could potentially change going down the road. And so the impact to the residents could be um you know additional payments to to uh to pay down those bonds and to essentially afford
those projects. And so um you know capital projects are necessary for uh the improvement of the burrow and the maintenance of the burrow. But it does um engage the burrow in very high cost potentially you know matching funds um soft cost associated with those
projects. uh and that number is is important and it will be realized by residents at at some point. So, um that presentation from the auditor will come to the council at some point this year. Uh but that is something as we're looking at this budget um that was
considered as well. We have $188,000 from our debt service um that we were hoping to uh include in our in our operating budget and in trying to stay under the cap instead of the 188,000
towards the pay to the uh pay down we decided to pay 100,000 and uh 88,000 would shift to next year's budget. So, um it's all related and it it does affect the uh the number that the residents are seeing.
>> Just to add on capital, uh council members, you'll remember um a few weeks ago we proposed um a capital budget of around 1.9 million for this year. Um a portion of that we have to pay as down payment which counts towards this year's
budget. Um and given that level of spend 1.9 million and going out to bond our auditor is also suggesting that we reduce further >> the capital expenditure um to one lighten the amount of down payment that you have and also reduce the amount that
you have to go out and bond for every year every 5 years. So you're bonding every 5 years. If you keep your capital budget around 1.1 you're bonding 5 million. If you have budget around two million, now you're bonding 10 million. Um, so that affects the rate that you're
going to get on on the bond and how much interest you're paying. Just like any of us on our credit cards, you know, better credit score you have, the lower your interest rate. Um, so those are things that he's highlighting now for us as a council to look at too.
>> Yes. Thank you, >> Sure. who are not talking about the capital budget, but there I think there is some confusion about a possibility of a purchase of a new firet truck, not the one that's going to be coming at the end of December, which under my understanding was already appropriated 3
years ago. >> Correct. Correct. There are no um there's no plan in the capital budget for 2026, I'm sorry, 26 or 27 at this point, uh for a new fire truck. >> Fire truck. The one you're talking about that was already purchased >> that was purchased three years ago.
Correct. billions ago, but with delivery, we didn't receive delivery. >> Absolutely. >> But that has nothing to do with this. >> Yes. Just trying to clear that up because there is there's definitely just for the public, there's confusion about that. >> Yes. >> Just want to make that clear. >> Councilman Brun could tell us all about how long it takes to build a fire truck.
>> Exactly. Right. I took just to prepare this one. >> So, where are we? Um, you know, as a council, you know, we're ready. we'll be ready to introduce uh a budget in in a couple weeks at our council meeting. Um
the thing that we need to to know from the council is what direction that we want to go. You know, do we want to look at and I'm going to head off a question in in a couple seconds here, right? We have to look at right now what we need to do for 2026 tomorrow. >> Do we need to do you know 10%. Do you
want to do 7%? Find more money to cut out in the budget. That is what we have to do for this year. long-term planning we need to start really looking at as a council. Sure, we've already approved one development that's going to take time before we see any money from that. It's going to take two or three years
before we see anything. What other things do we have? We talked about water. We talked about services. We start looking at other ways to save money on those, but those are going to take time. We can't look at garbage contract for two years. Um, you know,
there's only a few other large items in our budget. So, I think all of us know we have to do some responsible uh development in town to to bring in more revenue. Um, but that's going to take time to get to. And
these numbers are hard to look at. 10% is hard to look at. You have to remember though, 10%, you look at your total tax bill, you pay 17,000 in taxes. We're not talking about 10% on that. Talking about 10% on your
municipal budget portion. So correct >> Tatiana or Colleen, can you give the council members and folks here in the audience what does a 10% tax increase mean to the residents based upon an average home value from our last
assessment of 562,000? >> So the yes 566,000 is the average and I believe we were looking at about $25 uh per average um household >> per month >> for the year. $25 or 250 >> 28
>> I'm sorry 280 for the year correct >> 280 for the year uh and then broken down by by month but again 566,000 for the uh >> so do some you have a larger home your home averaging around 700,000 whatnot
you're probably looking at you know 400 uh a year in tax increases from the borrow so 10% >> again not to make the public go crazy. I think I'm going to get another $2,000 on my tax bill. That's not that, right? 10%
budget increase of our piece of the budget. Remember, there are three components of that full percentage. Our component is one piece. The school piece is a larger piece, 70%. And then you have the county tax as well. So, our
piece of the tax increase is that 10% which is, you know, somewhere between $250 and $400 depending on your home. Then we will get the other piece from the board of education and we'll get the other piece from the county which will be your full tax increase. >> Can I ask a question?
>> Yes. >> Regarding that separation? >> Sure. right now from the taxes that are kind of average tax that comes in on a on a property here in Waldwick. How much above that tax levy average
would be if we increase 10% would be the difference like per year would you know >> per resident >> 280 bucks >> right that's that's what Joe's talking about >> above you know because normally our taxes go up what would be the average would you say on an average resident
>> right so with the proposed uh increase you're looking at about $280 >> for the year >> yeah so last year we did 3 3.2 2% tax increase I think it was. So that was uh probably somewhere around $100 for the year. >> That's what I'm trying to get.
>> Right. So now this year if we did 10 you're talking about 150 to 400. So it's probably it's more than double the increase from last year on our piece. >> Probably like $30 $33 a month. >> Yeah. you know, when you look at it from that perspective and you're looking at
it from an inflation perspective, how much more do you pay for food at the grocery store this year than you did, you know, 10 years ago? Um, that's kind of one way to look at it. It's not a lot for keeping the services that we have in now. >> Everyone has to remember these services
are public safety first for the most part, right? Police, fire, these are things that we need to keep our residents safe. These are things that our DPW does guys do every day to go out and plow the roads and fix water pipes things that you know we get complaints
sure but think of we had less money to spend on those things. How bad would it be then? >> We do the best we can. What would we have? >> And I think our guys do a really good job of it. Especially, you know, our police, our DPW guys, they they work very hard for this town. A lot of them
live here. Uh so a tax increase will impact them, too. But we need those guys to to be here and do the job that they they do for us. And we need to provide them the correct equipment. We need to provide them um the right support from the town to do their jobs effectively.
And I I would never risk public safety over $30 a month. >> I I completely support that. >> So I have a I have a hard time decoupling the near-term from the long term. That's my only hiccup here, right? Because
if what we're proposing today is, you know, it's it's it stinks. But but fine, if we have to do it for one year, it is what it is. >> But by doing this, we don't change anything next year. >> We change nothing.
>> We're like literally sitting here one year from now having the same conversation. And eventually >> we're going to run out of room to tax. The law is going to step in and say you can't tax 10%. Is it not on you? >> So, um
I'm glad the auditor is now saying we have a problem. Um I'm not so sure I'm I'm willing to take their guidance on what to do because for the last two years they missed this. So, I think we need to be as a council thoughtful about
how we're going to make sure next year we're okay, but five years from now, we don't this is not something that we need to continue bringing up. Um, I I am of the opinion that I don't want to cut any services in town for the same reason everybody just
said. I don't want to cut services. I don't want to cut any We're already bare bones. So the question becomes how do we do this without taxation? And there are different runways to do
that. But I would advocate not putting that conversation off until tomorrow or next month or or next quarter. I would advocate that it becomes a comprehensive package that we start discussing now that's added to the to the to the
taxation. um because I I would really like to balance this budget so that we don't have this gap and we don't have this issue and when we do raise taxes it's so that we can reinvest in in the town not to to to basically tread water which is what we're we're doing right
now. So um yeah that that is that is kind of where I'm coming from. Um and I just don't know how to do that. I think that has to come from uh from you Tat Tiana kind of bringing us proposals on on how it is that the town can um do
this without taxation for the next six or seven years. I mean just to give you a we're we're saying it's only going to go up $280 this year. But if we do this for the next six years, which is what it's going to take to balance the budget, we will be doubling the tax. We will be doubling what we're currently paying in taxes right now because you
add 10% on a growing number. So, um, if I pay 4,000 a year to the burrow right now, uh, is that that's about right. I'm going to be I'm going to be paying roughly double that in six years, right? So, >> yeah, >> just a correction when I said the 280
that actually was our original um amount based on the 12%. So, it's slightly under 250. >> That's why I was >> increasing 10% for six years doubles the original number roughly. That's just all I'm trying to say. Yes. Y >> I think there one thing that we we
>> all talked about a little bit last year as a council and I think we have the financial advisors coming up. There's a lot there's a lot of moving pieces to this but um water system is an asset to us. Um we have to seriously consider that you know
we look at that as an asset to sell to get us out of this but that is intertwined with a lot of parts of our budget. So we need a lot of financial analysis. Now, Mike, you're very good at that, but we and we already hired financial advisors to look at this Phoenix, I guess it is, >> right? They're engaged. >> We really we really need that
information. >> Um because >> and part of our operating budget that we're looking at this morning is uh is supported by our water budget. So um you know salaries uh in particular are split
um not evenly but there are some um a percentage of the wages that the water salary um absorbs in terms of all employees throughout the burough. So we are utilizing it to help with the operating budget as well to the maximum that we can.
>> Yeah. And the other thing just also educating, right? If you're looking at the the papers that um we have here that Tatiana handed out on the big pieces of paper, you look for large numbers in my in my business, right? We're we're giving we have a library taxes, $750,000
a year that we pay for the library. U great program in library. I don't want to lose that. Um it's a lot of money. So when when auditors start looking at your pieces of the of the pie, where are your pieces of pie to look at? So we want to keep things like that in
town. We have to find ways to support that with revenue. Pool is another one. The pool, we operate at a loss every year. Operate at a loss. Keep that in mind. Um when we talk about services.
>> Yeah. And when we debate here raising fees on our residents $5 uh to pay for the pool and we hear we can't do that, we're going to make people angry. We operate at a loss, you
know, chlorine goes up every year, we pay people to be lifeguards there, we pay people to run the pool, that cost goes up. Do we look at other options there, privatization or or whatnot? Um, these are a couple of levers that we have to pull. We don't have a lot of
them, but we have to look at pulling them. >> Yeah, I also agree with what was been said before. Uh, we're patching now and we're going to get through the upcoming year, but to think that we're going to
be able to do this for the next foreseeable future is is the wrong thing to do. We do have to we do have to take a look at other avenues of revenue. Um, we talked about services. I remember years ago and it was just an idea that
we were going to cut garbage pickup to one day a week from two. They were coming at us as pitchforks. So, I understand that you can't cut services that you need for the town, but by the same token, if we're all going to live here,
>> we got to we got to bear the burden of the reality of taxes and how much things cost. But I'm wondering now, I understand that there are certain there are certain things there certain line items here that you we can't control. Insurance
being over. Uh, as I'm looking at here, I see some really high numbers, but and just thinking outside the box, if you will. First of all, the 10% I don't want to do, but it's reality and we have to do
it in my opinion right now. Moving forward, I see a lot of line items here. And I'm wondering if perhaps instead of looking at there was a line item that was taken out if I recall correctly. What would happen
if we just decided to save 1% of every line item and build up 1%. >> So I can touch on that. So when we look at um how we're going to start this year in 26, we take a look at what costs were
known to us in 25 and we make adjustments in those conversations and we meet with every department individually. That's really step one. Um so where where were your uh funds allocated? What uh what do you need for next year? What do you not need for next
year? And you'll see if you go through my working document that most lines we we ask the department heads to really sharpen their pencil and to really give us a realistic a view of of where they can function in their department. And I have to say that every department was on
board for that and every department was was uh aware of what we were trying to do and um essentially we've done that already. we have deducted where we can without um bringing you to a position where we just may not have the money to
pay for what we need to operate the the budget. Each year at uh starting in November uh we have the opportunity to do transfers uh between budget lines and this year we've made more transfers than in the
past uh because these line items are getting so tight that you know c could we you know reduce things 1% most likely but then we end up having to do the transfers and then as Mr. Richie had mentioned that uh you know at year end
there's less left over and less to roll into surplus. >> Um so >> an indication. >> So my idea failed at least it was an idea. So just like the you know just back of napkin right when we look at 2026 if you look at the incap expenses you're looking at $12 million. The first
column is salary and wages. So that's employee salaries which go up every year. That's 5.5 million of that 12 million almost 50% just there. Then we add into that million dollars for health insurance which comes down. We're at 6.5. And we add into that at the bottom
the social security, the pension and those things. That is another almost 2 million. That's 7 million already of the 12 million from just those. And then we look at two lines on here. Solid waste and recycling which is a 5-year
contract. That's another 900,000. So, forget all the other lines of the budget. We just talk about salaries, health insurance, social security. It's $10 million. We run the rest of the town on $2 million. Not Not a bad idea, Councilman Brennick,
but we've done that for you already. >> I didn't mean to talk about the way that you No, no, no. I actually think that that strategy unfortunately has yielded the problem we're in right now because we we used to use surplus to balance our
budget, >> but we used 60% of each line item and at the end of the year we were putting more back in than originally was starting >> and then every year we were just trying to skimp more and more but we weren't cutting the services. So we were just
>> allotting less money and then less was going back. >> Correct. Yeah, >> that's what I said when we started this and we've gotten to the point now where there's nothing left to cut. >> If we end 2026 where we ended 2025, we'll be at 4.4 million uh in surplus.
>> Other towns have no surplus, >> right? >> So, keep that in mind. >> Right. And to council's point, >> they have zero surplus. >> They have to cut people. They have to cut services. >> And and our auditors have been following it. I know to to your point, Councilman,
um but in 23, not too long ago, that's when when the tide changed and that uh that has escalated quickly. And so >> that's what I was going to say. There was so many unexpected things that happened here, right? You can put a five-year plan together for something and things happen, right? COVID happens,
inflation happens when we're at least expecting it. So, I think it's prudent to have a long-term plan, >> but to also know that things can change and pivot very quickly >> and then we're left in a position where we also have to pivot, >> right, >> to keep up. So,
>> but I'm totally in agreement with not cutting services. >> Well, I have a question about I guess Councilman Bren mentioned cutting garbage pickup to one day a week, but I I was talking to someone in another town. may have um cut it by a third by
having a rotating schedule. I don't know if that was ever discussed and if that would even cut the budget and I know it's not even on I think that there's still two more years, >> right? So when we sit down with our hauler, we can at that time talk about what services, you know, um the council
would feel comfortable engaging a hauler for and um you know, you you can try to save, but you you certainly will see a reduction in your service. That's the only way to see a savings. >> Yeah. I'm just saying I know I only really do it every once once I do once a week. I'm a family of four, but perhaps
that would be something that the residents would make a small concession over raising taxes. Just a thought. >> Thank you. >> Careful. >> Come to your house first. >> They can pitch for come out very quickly.
>> Don't bring it to your house. >> That's fine. Mine doesn't get full. That did happen to me once in a in a former town where I worked. They brought the garbage right down to uh my front door of my office. So, people take their garbage collection super seriously. Yes.
>> We talked about that once before one day and I think we were we were really hit hard by the residents. They didn't want it. >> Right. So, but I I think to kind of bring this to >> what we have to do >> for future,
>> I I think you know, Councilman Richie, you know, is trying to tie these things together. I think if as a council, if we are able to commit to looking at other opportunities, whether it's water, whether it's the next development project, whenever that comes to us with
a plan that we can control, I think we need to get ahead of that. We need to start working with our development counselor that we have and put our plans together for what we want to see so that we don't get a plan that we have to reject a million times. Like
we've had we rejected a million plans or not a million, I'm over exaggerating, but we rejected a lot of plans because they didn't fit to what we want as a town. Um so we need to tell people what we want. >> And I I do believe that 2026 is going to be the year for that. I think that um we
have to um and and we've been able to sort through a lot in the past 6 months, but I think that the council will find that there will be a road to to get back on track and to start looking at uh potential options to help bridge that
gap. Um so, you know, it's conversations that are happening in the administration office with our professionals um and getting everybody on board. Um and the council has valuable valuable knowledge to share on all of this and um so I do think that the conversation will
continue uh proactively and positively is is our hope for this year. >> I think once we we pass this budget either either way how we do it. I think the next step we should do is we should look at water. That's the main issue. I think we should look at water once Phoenix gives us their reviews and
everything. Maybe we'd have to look at selling it. Maybe not. But I think that's a big item that maybe we should look at first. And we have redevelopment. We could look at that. And we could look at everything else that's going to bring in revenue to the town. I mean, all these things we want to do is going to take a long time. It's
not going to be done by tomorrow morning. Talking about two, three years before we're going to see any type of uh uh money put back into the town if we do anything. But I think right now we got to start with a budget that's going to be putting us right here so that we
could keep on going right here. I mean, what do you think? >> I am definitely in support of redevelopment as long as it's smart redevelopment, like you said, and that it's going to be effective for the town. >> Yeah, we got to look at the long term for the whole town, like Mike keeps on saying, that's we have to do. I mean, we
got away with a lot. You know, the town is a great town. It's in good shape, but we don't want to make it bankrupt. We want to make it go further to have everybody enjoy it years to come because you know we're not all going to be sitting here and we want to leave this uh this deis in good hands and the
public in good hands. >> Yeah. I think we have to look at everything that comes up as an opportunity right >> when when absolutely when people change jobs um we have to look at opportunities for different types of services. we when we have opportunities for the contract
when uh the waste hauling comes up we have to look at opportunities can we change the garbage collection do we look at other ways to collect garbage um we have to look at everything you know do we look at outsourcing the pool to bring
that as a profit center instead of as a cost center um those are things to look at um you know so I'm in favor of doing whatever we can to bring in more topline revenue. I'm a topline revenue guy. I don't like to cut cost because I think
that means cutting services, but it's uh it's tough. This is not an easy situation, I tell you. And of course, it's my first year as finance chair. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um >> it's all my fault. >> Blame me. Um
so, yeah, I I don't have much else to add, um council members, other than than that. I I just want to make sure that we all continue to march forward. We have to find ways to um make this work long term. Uh I know some of you on the
council do not want to raise taxes 10% at all. Neither do I. Um and we cannot, as Councilman Bren said, cannot do that for six consecutive years. I don't think we'll legally be able to do it. And you know, none of us will be sitting up here at that point.
>> I think what the best thing to do also is every meeting on the new business each council person if they have an idea of how we could bring in more revenue into the town, let the administrator know and then once we have our new business, we could talk about it at every meeting. So, we could keep
constant dialogue going, public could hear it, and everybody will know what's going on. And then also the public could come up with their comments after we talk and that'll be a way in which we can hear from the public on what their ideas are because sometimes we have one set of ideas and the public has another
set that we probably didn't think of. Like I always said, more eyes looking at something is better than just our eyes. >> It's a great point, Mr. Mayor. You know, we're we're not we're not not the smartest people in the town and all cases. People might have a better idea
about where we can bring in revenue. Most people when they come to a council meeting or when they post on social media, it's about something negative. It's about, oh, my street didn't get plowed fast enough or um speeding in
town or um whatever service, my garbage didn't get picked up. My recycling didn't get picked up. That's what people come to talk about, come to bring an idea about >> what we can do better to bring in more revenue to the town. >> It might not be it might be halfbaked.
It might be really good. It might be illegal. Maybe it is legal. So we'll have to look at all those things when you bring those ideas. >> You never know until you ask. That's what I always say. So and the um involvement of our residents. I mean we are here representing but we're we're
representing our residents. So your ideas mean so much to us >> and together we can get the job done. >> Absolutely. If we work together that's what I've always said instead of fighting about things or just making complaints. Trying to come up with solutions is not just the job of the
council. It's the job of of all the residents who want to be involved. Yeah. >> So, no, nobody likes tax increases. Um, but one thing uh and I'll take the opportunity to mention again, you know, wherever I can uh about the various uh
tax-saving programs through the state for the seniors. Um, and what it is is a good good uh number of them qualify based on their uh income. uh that uh their taxes are frozen based on the the year that they apply basically. So in as
much as you know you're going to get a 10% increase for these seniors that are part of the program, they're going to have to pay it, but ultimately they do get that back through the through the state program. So you know the seniors is one block of of people. Uh you know
uh and I wish it it could be for everybody, but with the seniors is it won't be as you know hard of a hit. Uh, and you know, they need to to come in and see me so we can we can, you know, do the applications. >> Oh, just an idea. I remember someone
saying there used to be a concession stand at the pool, and I don't know if there is, and I don't even know if that would be an um just a drop in the bucket, but just ideas of bringing in revenue um and maybe giving a a job to a teen teenager.
>> Yep, that's fair. We we've looked at that. In the past, there has been concessions in the past. Uh difficult to fill our concession stand only because our membership is lower than um let's say other other pools or or lakes in the area. So, I believe the last time we
went out um we had nobody come in that you know was interested in running the concession stand. Doesn't mean we can't continue to to look at it. >> So, I I don't again uh always feel like uh the bad guy. Um, but great ideas. How
do we put them in action? I I I think that there are at least two reasonable ideas here to help us solve what's a probably like a $3 million problem. One of the there and and none of them are good, right? So, it's what's the what's
the best bad idea that we can start tackling? The first good bad idea is redevelopment. We have a lot of underutilized uh um properties in town. Um and uh and I think that
you know we just need to uh can we form a committee or something just so that we can so someone can bring ideas to council and the public on a regular basis? It would make me feel really good. even if we deny everything, the fact that we're at least thinking about bringing in tax revenue that's not on
the existing homeowners, I think would be huge. And then, you know, how do we push Phoenix to get the results back from this financial analysis? Because if we're going to sell the water, that has to go to referendum. We can't decide to sell the water. So, if we miss a if we
if we don't go very quickly, we're going to miss this year. And I'm going to be talking about it going to referendum November of 2027. 2027 >> and then we're, you know, two years away from that being a potential problem and then and and and it widens. Um and then
there are there are obviously other ideas too, um that could add up to to 3 million. But I I think if we're going to ask the town something that I I have to just say in my lifetime, I never thought I'd ever be in a place where 10% tax increases. I remember my first year on
council debating a 1% tax increase was uh it created divisions forever amongst the members of council. We're now talking about a 10% increase. So as that is unprecedented I think we need to be unprecedented with our approach to
solving the problem as well. So uh I I won't be able to just feel good about people wanting to do things. like we actually have to have these processes in place and track them um regularly track
the progress and so that's that's kind of where I'm at. >> Isn't Phoenix coming to talk to us shortly? >> Phoenix coming to talk to us. >> No, they they did already. Um >> but they aren't they coming back and >> H2M is coming at the next meeting uh to
talk about water quality findings. >> Okay. when are we getting when are we getting the financial results of the study? That's dependent on rate study first. >> So, uh we've had the initial conversation with them. Uh have to get
back on track because uh anything that they had done in the past is uh outdated information and data. So, >> they need what our capital plan. >> They do need a capital plan. H2M has to give us that >> but they need additional um they they need updated information on the
operating side and then a capital plan as well but in order to get the capital plan the borrow would have to engage H2M to to present that and if it's H2M or some other firm to present the capital >> I tell you that's the mo this conversation on the water is the most frustrating thing
>> in my opinion >> we need this before we can get that we have to go back to this to get that >> like council I want to put some pressure on somebody to say, "How do we move that process?" Because >> we're not getting it on a referendum for 26. We can't at this point. It's not
going to happen. >> So, we're looking at 27. But if we wait until >> September, October, we're going to say we can't do it in 27. >> Um, and the >> the town people needs to be updated on this information. They need to have the information at their hands so they can
make an informed decision at the ballot box. >> Um, so we need to put some pressure on somebody. I don't know who it is. I'm willing to sit on a committee. I know that the mayor has talked to people. I know Councilman Richie would. We need to push somebody to get this information rolling. >> It's all based on your
>> people that aren't our own residents, too. So, if you if you want me to uh put this energy somewhere else, I'd be more than happy to apply it on H2M or, >> you know, do we just find a different consultant? Are we happy with H2M? I mean, it's been a very long process without a whole lot of information,
>> right? Well, when the burrow engaged H2M, everyone was very clear that it was a one-year process. That was not lost in the proposal. They needed an entire year to put those numbers together. March is a year. So, we're at the one-year mark.
They're presenting March 24th. The council also engaged other professionals to look at this process. You you've engaged professionals, but they don't have the data that's required to move forward. Uh so I you know it doesn't mean that the process is not moving forward.
Understand the frustration. Uh but these these professionals can only do um you know the work that our our water department cannot do. They're engineers. They're professionals in this field. But the agreement that we signed on to as a burrow was a one-year agreement to
present all of their findings and and they're right on track with that. Um, so we we continue to move forward, but until that was all completed, you you can't really move to the next step. >> I I get that, but from today forward, you know, I I'll make one of the
audience members very happy. I'm a project plan manager, too. In my job, we need dates and we need to hold people accountable to those dates. And there needs to be a plan with a piece of paper
on it that I could see on April 21st, we are due to get a rate study or on June 30th is the next presentation to the council. That's what I want for my money that we gave. Once this survey is up in March, what do
we do? >> Uh, it's on a survey. They're they're presenting March 24th, and we've already started the conversation with Phoenix. We know what they need for their um evaluation of the sale of the water. Uh, and you know, that process, I believe,
could take up to 6 weeks for them to turn it back around to us. So, um, nothing has been stagnant. conversations have happened, plans are in place, and um you know, the council has engaged everyone needed to to make that decision, but it it does require uh some
time and professionals in different areas. >> Well, when you talk with them before they come here or whoever we be talking to, like uh Joe said, you got to tell them we need to have a deadline. We can't just keep on waiting because the more we wait, the more we lose.
>> Yeah, we're at the end with H2M. what they're presenting to you on March 24th is the conclusion of their one-year study of the water system. So, at that point, at that point, if you wanted to engage them or another firm to talk about your capital project, then you would have to decide and we'd have to go
out for uh most likely an RFP for another firm to put that together. But, uh in the meantime, Phoenix is already working on the evaluation of whether or not the sale is is uh viable. >> First of all, Phoenix is already doing that. They don't need our rate study in order to have that. They need updated information. They already did this
before, but the burrow did it before H2M did their proposal and completed their work, and what they did is now no longer valid. That data has expired, and we need to provide them with all new data. >> Is Phoenix doing the work to untangle
what not having a water budget means to our operating budget, or do we need to do that? >> Uh, I believe that's part of their evaluation. And I mean, I think that they understand the connection to it. Um, but >> they know all the where all the dead bodies are. >> I believe I believe that's what Brian's
proposal is to the burrow. It would include all of that. But I I will confirm that with Brian. >> You got to just But you got to let them know we're serious about this. We want answers like yesterday. But I think that's the consensus of everybody. >> Understood. >> And it doesn't mean we have like we
can't make that decision. The residents need to make that decision. Correct. and of what the impact is to the residents uh at that point. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If we do it or if we don't. >> Yes. >> But it is an option to help us to balance this budget long term. We only
have a few levers to pull. That's one of them. >> And if it doesn't make financial sense, we won't recommend doing it. >> That's a big one. >> Right. Your first question. >> We need your information. >> Your first question is what what can you make on the sale? um how does that uh pay down your your debt on the water side and what are you
left with at the end of the day and then right so >> and then the budget that we're working on today is supported by that by that operating budget and so now you create if you if hypothetically although I don't have the numbers this is not for anybody to do here except for the financial analyst if they determine that
you come out and you're not making money off of this deal you now have a a bigger shortfall in your operating budget on that we're discussing today but we won't know So we ask and that's why we're we're pursuing it. >> We have to make sure that we still get the service we get from them if we'd go there. >> Well, we're not engaged with anybody.
We're we're a financial analyst. Right. Right. >> We know now what we do with our water. They're out there immediately. >> Your referendum is right. Your referendum is to sell. You don't know who will come through on the other side to buy. And if you if you pass a referendum to say we're going to offer
our order system up for sale, people come back to bid, doesn't mean we have to accept that offer or at that point, best bid, we have to take it. >> I I don't think you do. I think you're going to have an opportunity. You have up to 30 or 60 days to accept the bid.
Um but uh you know, you you you could always uh change the terms. You could always go out to rebid. Um, you know, this is why the process is takes time because, uh, you know, we don't have the crystal ball. You don't know what those numbers are going to come in at and you don't know who's going to bid on it.
>> And whatever number they come back with, X million. >> The first thing that has to happen, Colleen, is we have to write a check to pay off our debt of water, not our full town debt, whatever debt we have on the water balance sheet. And then that money
goes to general fund for us to to use as we see fit. >> I think some of the companies realizing that we're thinking about selling because I I've been getting emails from different companies and I've been forwarding them to Tatiana and I just write back to them saying thank you very much for your email. So we have to see
what happens. >> That I mean so there's some demand there from >> watching this everybody. They're watching what they're doing is uh they're watching all the towns. Well, the towns are watching. >> But to clarify, so we'll get the water report from H2M at the next meeting and
then Phoenix will they're the consulting firm that will tell us if it's a good idea, right, >> to sell or not to analyze that. >> Two two separate functions uh but related to each other because after this one-year study from H2M, they um you
know that would feed into what your capital project would be for the next 5 years presumably. Now we have capital budget for water. Um it's part of the appropriation request we put in. We already have some indications of what we can do. Um water main replacement really
being probably the the biggest chunk of this uh and the most costly. So, um, you know, the the water capital is, um, it's it's pretty known, you know, and and it would play into the, uh, study, but Phoenix has to really look at what your
what your rates currently are and and where you would wind up if you sold it at the end of the day. >> Just to clarify, since we weren't here at the time when all this was going on, so H2O was hired to study, right? And then after they're going to make a report of what they recommend,
>> right, which they have, right? And that may >> your responsibility is pretty much done. Your recommendations and then it's up to to the council to decide which of these we want to adopt. >> Correct. >> And one of the options if everything is, >> you know, super high expensive on the
town is to sell the water system. Right. That would >> that's not their recommendation. >> Not theirs. Phoenix looking at >> Phoenix is looking at the propos the the burough's intention to ask is it is it a viable solution and is it something we should be considering >> really kind of somewhat conjoin but not
>> they're separate correct y >> and then we agree if we want to do this it goes on a referendum and then the public decide yes >> right >> okay thank you just wanted to straighten that out too thank you right there there are very uh a lot of moving parts to the water system
>> so now where do we And >> so at the next meeting which is >> 24th >> March 24th we'll have introduction >> introduction >> of budget. Um I I think at this point we're going to introduce a budget that is uh going to show the the 10% tax
increase. Um we'll have a slide presentation that Kelly has been putting together >> um that we'll have for the public to see on our equipment here. We we'll have a a presentation from our administrator.
We'll go through it. We'll make comments. Um we'll or public questions on that. At that point, >> it'll be a regular council meeting. So, yes, there will be a public portion. >> Public questions can be asked on that. >> Public question not public.
>> Just during public portion, the public will be able to talk about anything they want. So, they can introduction is introduction. We just introduce during the public hearing and adoption of the budget. Obviously the public will have two. >> So that will be on >> April something. >> Um
>> second week in April. >> Second week of April. >> Second uh first meeting in April. No second because I have 20 days actually. >> Yep. So >> on the 20th, April 20th, >> I encourage you to take this paperwork home with you and do homework and and come up with any questions that you have
that before the next council meeting so that we are uh fully prepared to answer questions and to support a budget hear um to move us forward with all of us in agreement that we have to seriously keep
timelines on finding other solutions, water redevelopment, etc. We have to, we just have to. You look at those numbers, we can't bury our heads in the sand and say it's going to get better. We We have to find ways to get better. >> And if I may just say, if any of us get any uh emails from residents or you see
anything on social media about what's taking place, please do not respond. Send everything to Tatiana. Let her respond on our behalf because if we start answering the residents, you know, their opportunity to ask us questions is here. to do it on our email systems or
our social media is not really the right thing to do. But Tatiana or Kelly will take care of all that for us. Like we always say, if you get something from a resident, send everything to our administrator or clerk and they will answer on our behalf. Okay. Okay. Do I have a motion to
adjurnn? Motion by Andy, second by Courtney. Everybody have a happy St. mattress day. Hey