WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=7AW68SJBPnA

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: 7AW68SJBPnA):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Commences: Public Notice, Flag Salute, Roll Call
- 00:08:56: Opening Public Comment Period; No Participants Present
- 00:10:20: Closing Public Comment, Approval of Prior Meeting Minutes
- 00:12:04: Old Business: Calamari Brick Road Application Approval
- 00:13:23: Status Report Review: Manhattan Avenue Cabana Issue
- 00:18:14: Cabana Construction Issues: Fines, COs, and Regulations
- 00:30:23: Discussion on 660 Pascack Road Settlement Agreement


Part: 1

1
00:00:00.880 --> 00:07:31.039
You're All right. Good evening everyone and welcome to the public meeting of May 19th, 2026 of the Patrick Washington Zoning Board. Adequate notice of this meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act by the board secretary to at least two newspapers on January 15, 2026.

2
00:07:31.039 --> 00:07:45.759
And this meeting has been posted on the Township Bulletin board electronic message board WCTV and on the township website. Uh public announcement, Governor Murphy signed into law on June 30th, 2025 a new law which reflects the transition from traditional print

3
00:07:45.759 --> 00:08:01.919
newspaper to online platforms as of March 1st, 2026. You'll find on our township website a tab on the homepage named public notices where all official public notices are required to be posted and may be obtained or viewed. These documents in

4
00:08:01.919 --> 00:08:21.919
addition to uh will have a hyperlink to the secretary of state's public notice web page. Please join me in a salute to the flag to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,

5
00:08:21.919 --> 00:08:39.760
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The roll call, please. >> Mr. Dagustinino >> here. >> Mrs. Grimmaldi >> here. >> Mr. Lrada >> here. >> Mrs. Osman >> here. >> Mr. Rivera is absent. Mr. Zitko >> here.

6
00:08:39.760 --> 00:08:56.480
>> Mr. Bellon >> here. >> Mr. Todros will be late. >> Okay. >> And Chairman Gats >> here. Let the record reflect also in attendance our attorney Gary G Antonio, board engineer Johnny Kimmick, and board secretary Grace Gish. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we'll open it up to

7
00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:11.200
the public the public portion. To participate in the general public portion of the meeting, please click the link on your website uh and listed on the agenda to join the webinar. If you're at home, um you'll be asked to state your name for the record and be

8
00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:27.200
asking only one person speak at a time. This public comment portion is only for non-aggenda items. Time is set aside later in the meeting to address questions or comments about current agenda items. If you're participating by phone, press star 9 to raise your hand

9
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:43.200
and star six to unmute. At the end of the general public portion, no further general questions or comments will be accepted. And of course, if you are in the audience uh physically present today, just raise your hand and you will be acknowledged for the public portion as well. Can I have a motion to open the

10
00:09:43.200 --> 00:10:00.240
public portion? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Anyone in the audience? Anyone at home that has any general comments or questions for the board,

11
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:20.560
please raise your hand. If you're on your phone, press star nine. If you are physically present, raise your hand. All right. Seeing no one in the audience raising their hand, seeing no one online

12
00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:36.399
uh raising their hand, I'll ask for a motion to close the public portion. >> Motion >> close. Second. >> All in favor? >> I uh approval of minutes. Uh those members with a strike through are

13
00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:55.279
not able to vote due to absence or not being a member at the time of the meeting. uh January 13, 2026. Any issues, comments, corrections? >> No.

14
00:10:55.279 --> 00:11:12.480
>> All right. Um so I'll ask for roll call on approval of the minutes for January 13, 2026. >> Motion to approve. >> Motion. Second. >> Roll call. Mrs. Grimaldi,

15
00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:28.480
>> yes. >> Mr. Lrada, >> yes. >> Mrs. Osmond, >> yes. >> Mr. Zika, >> yes. >> Mr. Bellon, >> yes. >> Chairman Gats, >> yes. All right. Uh, April 21st, 2026.

16
00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:46.000
Any uh those minutes? Any issues, comments, questions, corrections? Y hearing none. I'll ask for a motion to approve the April 21st, 2026 motion. >> Second. >> Roll call, please.

17
00:11:46.000 --> 00:12:03.560
>> Mrs. Grimmaldi, >> yes. >> Mrs. Osman, >> yes. >> Mr. Zitka, >> yes. >> Mr. Bellon, >> yes. >> Chairman Gats, >> yes. >> All right. New business none. Uh, old business. Resolution number ZB-26-09

18
00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:25.839
to approve the application uh approval of application of Dawn Calamari Brick Road for a two-story addition of front porch at 112 President Road 451-03 lot 8. Any uh questions, issues,

19
00:12:25.839 --> 00:12:47.200
comments, corrections? Gary John good >> good Gary and I yeah >> we spoke numbers >> are good things and conditions which >> you know conferred on and you know if anybody had any other questions or

20
00:12:47.200 --> 00:13:03.839
concerns and >> so hearing none I'll ask for a motion to approve resolution ZB-26-09 motion Second. All right. Roll call. >> Mrs. Grimmaldi. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Osman.

21
00:13:03.839 --> 00:13:23.040
>> Yes. >> Mr. Zitka. >> Yes. >> Mr. Bellon. >> Yes. >> Chairman Gats. >> Yes. All right. Moving on. The status report review. What do we got? >> Where you want to start? Go ahead. >> Have one thing on it.

22
00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:40.399
>> What's that? >> You only have one thing on it. >> What? What's on? I I didn't bring >> Manhattan Avenue. >> I'm sorry. >> You want my coffee? >> Yeah, sure. >> Manhattan Avenue. >> I don't know what you're talking about. >> You don't want to know what you're

23
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:59.680
talking >> Okay. So, um just Mr. Zitko was kind of on the right track at the last meeting. Uh I think if you recall we had a journ we got a opinion uh from the zoning officer

24
00:13:59.680 --> 00:14:15.279
um and I I'm paraphrasing basically saying that um this cabana um and this additional shed was I got to choose my words carefully here

25
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:31.600
um approved by Beckmeer Engineering I believe was the statement by the zoning officer. Um and you know obviously um Beckmeer nor myself approve of

26
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:49.440
anything that's not we we have no approving authority whatsoever. >> I talked with Mr. Beck Meer Glenn Beckmeire today. I left him a message yesterday. Um I also looked through the drawings

27
00:14:49.440 --> 00:15:06.880
again. Um the original drawings from the whole history of the application, the addition to the house which was under our review as engineer, the pool and the pergola

28
00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:24.160
which was the original application for the pool which I did not review but Mr. Beckmeer review and then we got it got referred back to this board because Mr. Beckmire found the driveway to be more

29
00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:43.040
than 22 ft. During our review, we also found or questioned the impervious area which was which occurred before the maring council um passed or the council passed ordinance. However, what

30
00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:58.639
remained were the two accessory structures in the rear yard. The asbuilt shows now a cabana twice the size of the original pergola and the old shed if you

31
00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:16.320
will way in the back which um which pre-existed you know the the first expansion. So having said all that, the pergola became a cabana somewhere

32
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:31.600
during construction. And if you read our code, the pergola technically does not have a roof. It rain goes through it. It doesn't have a roof. A accessory building is defined by a structure

33
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:48.959
having a roof. So, I'm summing that when this application came before U, the zoning officer, they missed the very large shed in the back, which is over 80 square ft. It's slightly over. It's about 100 maybe

34
00:16:48.959 --> 00:17:05.919
square feet in the back. Our code only allows 80 square feet for an accessory structure. And so, when they saw the pergola, it didn't fit the definition of a building. So therefore, you know, the pool was never really

35
00:17:05.919 --> 00:17:23.360
referred to to a board um at that time. And then construction occurred and when construction was over, excuse me for chuckling a little bit, but the um the pergola magically became a cabana with a roof that was twice the size of the

36
00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:37.840
pergola. So quite frankly uh yes absolutely this board you know should have heard it. Um what I propose is to um after I talked

37
00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:56.080
with Mr. Beckmeer. Uh today I proposed to um send a an email to Joe Sedic case and basically saying Joe my research has found this and what has transpired

38
00:17:56.080 --> 00:18:14.000
and my opinion is that this board should hear this again for this. I have no power to send it back to the board. However, the zoning officer can. >> Okay.

39
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:29.600
>> Can I ask a question? >> What how long I mean this has happened a few times and but it doesn't happen that often. Is there any rules or restrictions about when you start a project? This is a project. There was one other house in town in 20 years. It

40
00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:46.400
took them that long to finish what the original project was. Is there anything because this is how something like this happens. Do we have any restrictions or is there any restrictions building codes or anybody know anything? construction permit is typically uh two years I think

41
00:18:46.400 --> 00:19:02.799
but um 99% of the time u you know you could ask for an extension and it's >> extensions and and then add things to it like this to have this type of >> well quite frankly when they add things to it and if it it has to go through

42
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:20.160
zoning and it and if they add things much the same way that 754 Cotch Peak um during construction changed something and that was caught and that came before this board. So, um this was something

43
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:37.200
that, you know, incredibly um just fell through the cracks. >> Yeah. I was just wondering if there's a time period that, you know, so things like this don't happen. >> What What happens if the applicant says, "I don't want to come back to the zoning

44
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:53.360
board." What's our next step? >> They knock it down. fines. >> Is it Is that legal? >> I I believe that's what our code talks about. Yeah. >> So, >> it's happened plenty of times before,

45
00:19:53.360 --> 00:20:10.960
but overbuilt and they had to knock it down like in remember the place on Vanburg that built parapits on top of the uh house and they had to remove them all uh because the board didn't pass the those things. So, yeah. they will get

46
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:28.960
fined until they come back or knock it down. Um, so are the fines in force? >> Pretty much. Yeah, they are. >> Yes and no. >> I mean, that's not not our purview. All we can do is, you know, hear the

47
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:44.880
application or not hear the application or, uh, listen to the zoning board, uh, zoning enforcement officers recommendations and the recommendations of our professionals and see what next

48
00:20:44.880 --> 00:21:02.480
steps are. Um, but, um, I believe that's probably a excellent next step. >> Yeah. >> And then we'll see where it goes from there. What about the escro balance? According to the report, they're insufficient. So, does that have to be >> Did they Did they make that up?

49
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:20.000
>> They have not made any payments. >> Okay. >> How much money do we know the amount that they owe? >> They uh Well, it depends on >> So, in that case, would there be a stop work order issued if the fines are if the >> they're they're they're done.

50
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:36.400
>> Are they are all the permits closed out? But I think their CO is should be still be open. >> Yeah. So their CO is open. So can we CC that to the building department too and let them know that there are open escros

51
00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:52.960
that are not paid and that the CO should not be issued until >> Does that mean they can't open their pool? >> Yes. Well, u if they have any loans out, I would think the bank would want to see the CO,

52
00:21:52.960 --> 00:22:08.799
>> right? >> And then you mentioned that he did have a loan. This was a while back >> and he was asking for a CO because of that and he may have gotten it. This was a while back, but um >> the last time I still think that we

53
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:23.039
should send >> needed it for the bank. We should still send the building department a letter and they can always remote the CEO if >> yes they can. >> So >> okay >> can I under I I might not be understanding. >> Okay.

54
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:39.200
>> They uh they completed they they came did they come to the board? >> Yes. >> So they got >> to the board for for what? >> An original there was an original application to the zoning department. The original application was permitted

55
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:55.120
or denied. >> So the original application was to expand the building uh the dwelling. That was in my in looking at my files that was variance-free. Okay. >> And they were they were within the

56
00:22:55.120 --> 00:23:11.039
setbacks and they accomplished that. Then their next phase was a pool, a patio, and a pergola in the backyard. uh that also the zoning officer decide

57
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:26.480
ruled that that that did not have to go before a board and the pergola then we got and then they did a final inspection. Uh Mr. Beckmeer says he only inspects the area

58
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:42.960
fronting the road. He doesn't inspect the rear or things that are in the purview of the zoning officer. So he found that the driveway was more than 22 feet. And so at that point he sent the letter and said, "You have to go to the board of adjustment to get approval for

59
00:23:42.960 --> 00:24:00.159
that." Being totally blind, no fault of Mr. Beckmire, of that in the rear yard, they built a cabana. >> Mhm. >> And not a pergola. And then so once they build the cabana uh it's an accessory building and there

60
00:24:00.159 --> 00:24:16.480
hope they need they need a variance for it. >> So did I answer your question? >> So I guess I can ask it. So the it was the pergola was not really permitted per code but it was it was >> the pergola was permitted if you read the code.

61
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:32.720
>> Oh so they illegally built a structure. >> Yes. Right. >> So then I don't see why what's the conversation here right? Isn't it >> the zoning officer is reluctant to Well, we we're getting the sense he's reluctant to uh >> he did nothing wrong. The only reason he would do something reluctant is if he

62
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:49.440
made an error. It doesn't sound that way. Sounds like he was presented with one thing and that's like somebody applying for a one family house and putting up a two. There's no difference, >> right? He did he did nothing wrong because they Yes. They somehow this

63
00:24:49.440 --> 00:25:04.559
structure transformed into something that should have come before the board and now we have the driveway issue and that structure issue that needs to come >> before the board. The driveway came before the board. The board ruled on the

64
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:21.440
driveway. Um however this this other issue is is you know they they approved it with some caveats. Um and so this seems to be a lingering issue um with regard to this

65
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:36.159
to the per to the cabana. >> John, if it wasn't for the driveway, this conversation would be talked about. Am I correct? >> That's right. I think that the most disturbing thing is that something this egregious by the homeowner fell through

66
00:25:36.159 --> 00:25:53.200
the cracks and somebody needs to check that. um whether it's the zoning department, whether it's the engineer, whether it's um the building department, you know, somebody somebody needs to check that.

67
00:25:53.200 --> 00:26:08.320
>> Yeah, it doesn't make sense. >> I mean, I get I've gotten personal phone calls about rocks in front of a house I owned. So, that is is crazy to me. >> I know. >> You know, >> but I mean, as far as everybody knew, they were approved for everything. So,

68
00:26:08.320 --> 00:26:24.320
they probably didn't make any complaints or anything. It's just >> how do you get a footing inspection, right? You build a cat cabana, presumably there's a foundation. How do you get a framing inspection? How do you get >> insulation? It was a res check submitted, >> right? >> Because it was done illegally,

69
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:40.640
>> right? Which is why the building department should be notified and CCD on the letter. And they also have the power to revoke the CO if that's not corrected or they don't come before the board. I'm I'm okay with that. >> So, I think that's the next step and I

70
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:56.320
think that's a good step. >> Everybody in agreement with that? >> Yeah. >> But you think the zoning officer doesn't want to pursue it? >> Well, we'll find out. >> I don't think he wanted to pursue it with um

71
00:26:56.320 --> 00:27:11.600
>> was he the zoning officer the whole time of this going on? I believe so. >> We've changed people in between. I've seen >> Yeah. Well, I was when I landed here, John Seattle was essentially >> John Seattle. Yeah. Which I I started with John >> and and you know, very thorough. So,

72
00:27:11.600 --> 00:27:27.679
>> yes, exceptionally. >> I think he Yeah, I think that um again, no fault of him, but he's uh got to follow up on it and I think the building department needs to be uh know that there's an issue going on as well.

73
00:27:27.679 --> 00:27:43.520
>> So, I'll I'll compose that email. Mr. Beckmeer said he he wanted to get back to me uh one final he was going to check with his staff on this to find out precisely who checked what etc. Uh I talked to

74
00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:59.200
Glenn Beckmire senior today. Um so I'll wait for Glenn to call me back one last time before I type this email out. Uh, you know, I >> I said I was going to be probably using your name this evening and I was going

75
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:15.520
to tell him why, you know, just fair notice that um, you know, you're going to be drawn into this maybe. So, >> can I can I is it standard for engineers only to check the front and not check the rear? Is that standard policy?

76
00:28:15.520 --> 00:28:33.679
>> Johnny Kimick checks everything because I'm just telling you what I do and I don't know what other engineers do. I cannot speak for other engineers, but >> I mean this is actually a very I actually just got another case today in another town very similar issue with

77
00:28:33.679 --> 00:28:47.919
this where my client was approved for all his permits and everything and then um they wanted to move the the gazebo 54 in off of the house and that put them in a setback and then just things started

78
00:28:47.919 --> 00:29:04.399
spiraling and um he's probably going to send back and uh his $20,000 gazebo now and just go ahead with his permits because it's now an accessory structure that the town was now made aware of and

79
00:29:04.399 --> 00:29:21.679
now it has to come under zoning. So, um, these things do happen and, uh, yeah, the pergola, if the pergola changed into a cabado, that's an issue. >> But if the pergola never changed, then this conversation would be happening either. >> Right.

80
00:29:21.679 --> 00:29:36.799
>> Right. Well, we still had the the old shed in the back that was >> But that would ft. >> Right. >> Which I don't think is the offensive issue really here. >> It's only the back on the right hand side. So, you're right. You could tell

81
00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:53.600
from my reports and typically uh I find variances associated with accessory structures because when people put in their application you know typically they're blind to that but you know I try to you know you're an open book

82
00:29:53.600 --> 00:30:09.600
>> and we wouldn't fault someone for that I don't think either um because that does happen quite often. However the transformation I think is an issue. So, all right, we'll go ahead with that. >> I'll copy the chairman Gary and Grace

83
00:30:09.600 --> 00:30:23.919
and my correspondence. >> Thank you. We appreciate that. >> And we'll move on to uh any board memory. Any other issues? >> Yeah. What What are we doing with this thing? Reading it at home.

84
00:30:23.919 --> 00:30:41.039
>> One thing the uh Yes. So, uh we were Gary, you want me to uh show where you're talking about 660 act real estate? So, I was advised today around 3 or 4 3:30 from this afternoon. >> Thank you, Grace. >> Plenty of time. Um,

85
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:57.159
>> you must have killed yourself. >> Yeah. By uh Siobhan Bailey Township attorney that the um 660 Pasc, as you may recall, came before this board, I guess, was denied back in 202.

86
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:15.679
>> And yeah, what does it say? They they applied in 22 and I think it was decided in 23. Yeah, it's been three years and we denied it. >> Yeah, >> they appealed it. Their first their appeal was denied. Then they went to the court of appeals

87
00:31:15.679 --> 00:31:29.600
which is what's been going on I guess the last year or so and they have come up with a a settlement agreement between we're we're involved in this because we're a named party. The town's

88
00:31:29.600 --> 00:31:46.799
a named party. We're a named party. And >> because the board originally denied their shopping center, >> correct? So, >> I wasn't on this board. So, I'm just trying to >> Yeah. Yeah. The board, the board denied. It was initially a shopping center. So, now they're going through the motions of

89
00:31:46.799 --> 00:32:03.039
the, you know, of the court and they had their oral arguments back in March. So, a decision has not been rendered yet by the court of appeals. >> It hasn't. >> No, has not. because they tried to settle this as

90
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:20.000
part of this settlement agreement. U and as part of the settlement agreement, again, I just got this an hour or two ago. I spoke to Siobhan about it, so I'm getting up to speed myself. Part of this settlement agreement was that the mayor council was going to reszone that

91
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:36.240
property in conjunction with their obligations for fair share housing and affordable housing. all tied in together because it partially resolved that and from what I could see in talking that they basically reszoned it to allow you know residential town houses.

92
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:51.760
>> Does it say in this I'm sorry I didn't read the resolution we may have does it say how many town houses and what are we approving? >> We're not just saying >> this is a dismissal. So basically Dave it's part of this agreeing us to sign

93
00:32:51.760 --> 00:33:07.519
off on it. It's a dismissal >> which we really cannot not do. >> Oh yeah, we can. But >> as a formality, we kind of just have to hear it and say we are >> removing ourselves from the lawsuit.

94
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:23.039
>> You're talking about what you're signing on and signing. The concern is that the judge has not rendered a decision. The judge can come down any day and approve grant their appeal for what the original >> appeal on the original which is the shopping center.

95
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:40.559
>> Correct. So the cons I mean or they could deny it again. I don't know. But there's a risk there that if this is not done >> always the threat is there always a risk >> if this is not done in time that that judge could rule in their

96
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:57.519
favor and this would wreck their the whole affordable housing obligate. It would be a major issue. Um it's for for our purpose it's just it's being dismissed which is a good thing. their case is being dismissed and then they will have to go in front of the planning board with a whole new application

97
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:12.800
because now it's reszoned. So what they're trying to do is permitted but subject to whatever variances they may ask. only have to come in front of the zoning board even though it's reszoned >> unless they need >> unless they need but now yeah what

98
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:29.760
they're applying for is not >> it's not the same project that came for us and now it's been reszoned >> to allow again I like spent 10 minutes looking so just have to fall within the zone for townhouse or whatever

99
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:46.079
they're reszoning it >> and if it doesn't in some case then it would come to us again in that aspect >> right So the town has signed the agreement was my understanding. >> Well, the town passed an ordinance as part of this agreement. They had a certain time frame to pass which is by June 22nd they have to adopt an

100
00:34:46.079 --> 00:35:02.640
ordinance which they just apparently did. >> So let me ask you a question. Somebody said there's 32 town homes being built. Uh so the it says here in this settlement agreement that they agree to make 660 PAS tag agrees to make

101
00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:18.480
application of the planning board to develop the property for construction of 32 unit inclusionary townhouse development a minimum of seven affordable housing. >> Okay that's that's what they have to go back they have to go in front of a board. So 32. So >> and it's my understanding this is you

102
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:34.640
know this was before the mayor council. They had several readings talked to Siobhan. So they have input from neighbors. They've been >> they went behind closed doors a lot on this one. >> Right. But but they will have to go in front of the planning board to present their formal plan subject to this

103
00:35:34.640 --> 00:35:51.040
agreement for the planning board >> because at which time the public comment question >> but the town but the town gets credit based on the >> affordable housing >> affordable housing is it co-op >> co-op right so let me just play devil's

104
00:35:51.040 --> 00:36:07.440
advocate for one second if the board said no let's say It goes back. It may go back to the original plan which >> well the judge if it's not if it's if you don't sign off on it and it's lingering there

105
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:22.240
>> the judge could grant their appeal for their original application strip mall >> and remand it back to us and say you have to >> right >> that's that's the risk. So, right. So, if I had a choice between 32 town homes and a strip mall,

106
00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:38.720
>> my my belief is I'd rather have the the strip mall for one reason is because who knows if the infrastructure can handle 32 town homes with school kids going to the school. How many buildings going to have to be built to

107
00:36:38.720 --> 00:36:54.560
handle all this stuff? the traffic of 32 town homes, you know, I mean, there's more involved with 32 town homes than there is on a certain wall. So, deny that. Hold on. >> Oh, I disagree with you. Answer.

108
00:36:54.560 --> 00:37:10.880
>> I disagree. >> You have no choice. You have no say. If you would like to appear in front of the mayor and council and argue this against the ordinance that they passed, then you may do so. But the board is going to

109
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:26.640
pass this or if we do not pass this, you will be individually pulled and most likely the judge will just do the same thing and the judge will they will the town will then make a motion to probably have

110
00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:43.680
you the u zoning board nullified the zoning board's opinion nullified and remove them from the case. So, it's kind of pointless to argue it right now, okay? >> Because if you want to argue this as a

111
00:37:43.680 --> 00:37:59.599
private citizen, you're absolutely >> right >> free to do so. But as a zoning board, we are not here to argue this. We are not here to hear this. We are advised the township

112
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:17.119
has passed an ordinance and has agreed to a settlement in the lawsuit that has gone to the appeals court and we are a minor party and they've changed the reasonzoning anyway. So the first part is moved.

113
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:34.480
So if we reject this, we would be >> doing so in >> as a bad, >> right? >> It's sign off to dismiss that application that was before us. >> However, we do have to go through the formality and we will probably have to

114
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:52.240
have a um special meeting. >> So >> unless we wait till next month, >> right? Because we just got this and I told, you know, I get it >> because they wanted us to sign off with this tonight and I said, We don't even have a signed agreement. >> I spoke with Siobhan because it's not

115
00:38:52.240 --> 00:39:08.880
something you could dillydally for three months and spend, you know, deciding because there could be repercussions to that. So that's why I said, well, we just got it. Let's get it. Let the board members >> Yeah. The town itself took a long time because they've been in close sessions with this. Well, and what happened

116
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:23.839
things finally get moving forward the way they want us to work, you know, like they did their oral arguments and there have been involvement from neighbors which is part of the delay because they have to listen to their concerns and they've changed this. So this wasn't

117
00:39:23.839 --> 00:39:40.079
done in five minutes. And you also have more kind of control over things as you're going through this process leading the town then not approving it and then oh it just got stric which this board denied. So it's

118
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:56.160
basically >> signing something that's agreeing with your decision to deny this application. >> Yes. That's really how to look at it. they could always go and do whatever they want to do, but for the town and it also helps the town with the affordable

119
00:39:56.160 --> 00:40:10.480
housing requirements. So, there's pros and cons. There's a lot involved that the town gets out of it as well. >> Yeah. Well, again, regardless of anyone's opinion, unless you have a

120
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:27.599
legal reason that is reasonable and you can back that up with uh whatever proofs that you can that you must vote against this, um you might be subjecting the board and

121
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:44.960
yourself to liability. And that's why I would just caution you that this is a formality and we are just really excusing ourselves from the case because we have no jurisdiction anymore anyway. >> It's being dismissed.

122
00:40:44.960 --> 00:41:00.079
>> It's being dismissed >> is what you would why can't we just vote on it now? >> Um well that's up to you. We could too. >> We could I really uh

123
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:15.599
>> and you could have Siobhan appear and you know or Zoom or B ask about it if the board has questions to her because again I've had no involvement in this. Again, I want everybody to have the opportunity to read it, to understand it, and to know that. And

124
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:34.000
we'll have either the township attorney or the uh township uh or yeah, we'll have the township attorney appear at that special meeting if if there is a special meeting, if it doesn't go to next meeting. Um but um to make sure

125
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:49.760
that everyone's questions are answered. But again, I just don't want to be ar rearguing this issue uh because it's not good for >> I think the way you guys explained it answered any question. >> Yeah,

126
00:41:49.760 --> 00:42:05.680
>> it's a it's a done deal. >> Yeah, >> it's just taken us out of it. >> Exactly. And we're already out of it, quite frankly. >> So, if it is a special meeting, when is it? >> I don't know. Well, that's what we that's what we should probably decide. >> Yeah. >> Before we adjourn. And the only thing

127
00:42:05.680 --> 00:42:21.520
that's gonna happen is Siobhan appear and answer some questions of it. And I don't >> I'm just working that that's going to change anyone. >> Yeah. So >> So if there was if anybody would be amendable to a special meeting, would

128
00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:38.800
you think two weeks from now or our meeting is the 16th and the idea of special meeting >> discussing a settlement agreement? >> We have to read. >> Yeah. make it >> next Tuesday is the day after.

129
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:54.880
>> Well, there's also a question notice required. So, we could >> which what's that? >> We could have. >> No, it wasn't on the agenda. >> So, I would think two weeks would be ideal because again, next weekend is Memorial Day weekend. So, the council

130
00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:11.359
meetings probably move >> Tuesday. >> It can't be the second the Tuesday because that's elections. can't be the second and it's Tuesday because we just >> right June 4th >> which is a Thursday if the room's

131
00:43:11.359 --> 00:43:25.520
available. >> Yeah, that sounds good. >> Did anybody do that? >> Yep. June 4th is fine. >> Raise your hand if you can make June 4th. >> I think they can. >> I'm half half. I don't know. >> Um >> probably. So >> you can appear by Zoom. You don't have

132
00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:42.640
to. Yeah, you can. You're by Zoom, too, if you >> So, I think we would just have a >> Okay, we should have a corp. >> All right, >> that's fine. >> What do you need? >> Uh, let the record the board members join. >> Mr. Tadros

133
00:43:42.640 --> 00:43:58.960
has joined us. >> How are you guys? >> Okay. >> What do you need for a forum for that special meeting? >> Five. We need five people. >> Five need that. So, if Fred comes, then we'll have five. You're not sure, right? Not sure. It's very possible I can. I just without

134
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:13.599
>> Okay. >> Looking at my calendar on you where I know. >> No, I could go. >> Oh, you can come. >> Yeah, I don't. >> Oh, all right. All right. Then we should have five. >> All right. At least >> I'll figure out if it has to be like your resume. >> Okay. >> Does it require 20 days notice?

135
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:30.400
>> Not 20 days. In my head, it's always 10 days, but only two days. >> It's a special meeting. >> It's a special meeting and it's public. >> Okay. public. It's not it's not an application in front of us with the munual land use law. It may only be 48 hours.

136
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:45.200
>> We're not gonna hear it within 40, but it has to get noticed. So, >> and I know Gracie's very busy. She's got a graduation tomorrow. >> Why can't we have it at the regular meeting? I'm sorry. I must must have missed why. >> Well, it's just trying to expedite it. >> Trying to expedite it because if if

137
00:44:45.200 --> 00:45:01.119
>> a judge comes down next week or two weeks or three weeks. >> Yeah. But they could come down the day before we have it on early. So, I mean, I just >> it goes to why just >> we could most likely if the judge knows that they're in in there is discussions. >> It's the summer time and you know, I'm

138
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:16.960
sure the judges are rolling too. >> Yeah. >> Um, so we'll have it if we get a quorum, we get a quorum. If not, it'll be on the next meeting. >> All right. So, we'll try June 4th. >> So, June 4th, Thursday, 7:30 p.m. here.

139
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:32.800
>> Yes. Okay, >> that's the floor. >> Yes, >> any other issues. >> All right, motion to motion second. >> Roll call.

140
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:39.520
>> All in favor? I >> off the I send it