--------- public meeting of December 15, 2025 of the township council of the township of Washington. Adequate notice of the meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act by the township clerk in January to at least two newspapers. And this meeting has been posted on the township bulletin board electronic message board WCTV and on the
township website. Please notify the municipal clerk for any disability requirements necessary for attendance at township council meetings. Fire exits are located through the double doors to your right and through the door on your left. Please silence all cell phones. If you are unable to attend the council meeting in person and would like a topic
to be addressed at a council meeting, please visit www.twpofw washington. us contact us tab. Click on mayor and council. Send email to contact all members at once. Could everyone please stand for a salute to the flag?
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, >> indivisible, >> with liberty and justice for all. >> Roll call. >> Councilman Casio
>> here. >> Councilman Sears >> here. >> Councilman Elman >> here. >> Counciloman >> here. >> Council President Denn >> here. Let the record reflect also in attendance. Mayor, Mayor Peter Calamari, Township Administrator Mark D. Carlo,
township attorney Shiran Bailey and township clerk Susan Wakowski. >> Mrs. Mrs. VeZ is on Zoom. >> Tonight we have a recognition of retirement for the police chief John Calamari for 32 years of service for
Sergeant Seario Fasciano for 27 years of service. DPW foreman Gerard Casey for 28 years of service. DPW mechanic Ron Sherer for 24 years of service. The police chief and sergeant are getting another award at the same time. Correct, Mr. Mayor? From the PBA at this time, so
they will not be here tonight. >> And Mr. Sharer is not here tonight. So, we have Mr. Casey here. >> All yours. >> All yours. >> So, if you'd like to come up and Well, I I just want to say a few words
about Jerry. Uh, you know, I'm I'm very happy that you are retiring in good health. Uh, because that is a very grueling job that you guys do every day. And so, I'm happy that, you know, you are still in good health and will retire. Uh, I will remember you always with a smile on your face. Uh, you
always serve the residents with a proud smile. and uh you know that didn't go unnoticed by them or by us in town hall and so it's much appreciated. Uh Mike, would you like to >> Jerry, it's been a p privilege and honor. I've seen you here since 1997. Um
you you started the year I moved into township. So I've always seen your face at the DBW like the mayor said, you've always been smiling and taking care of everyone. So in honor of that uh 28 years of service to the town, we want to present you with this plaque. It says the township of Washington presented to
Gerard Casey, DBW Foreman, Township Part: 2
authority again for an answer and update. The on-ramp from Washington Parkway was resurfaced. Council President Desenna inquired into the stop sign project initiated in early fall of 2025. Most of the locations have had the signs installed. However, a pause in the
project occurred due to the beginning of leaf season and the ordering of more signs and posts. The project will pick up again once leaf season is concluded and the weather allows for it. In the meantime, the police department traffic unit is inspecting the recent installations for proper placement and
compliance with the manual for uniform traffic control. The traffic unit is also conducting a review of additional intersections that need a stop sign. An example of one of those locations is the intersection of northbound Beach Street at Cypress. And that concludes my report. Thank you, Council President.
>> Thank you, Mr. Carlo. General public comment limit to 5 minutes. Motion to open open the public comment period. Do I have a motion? So move second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Would anybody like to come up? Mr. Janos, you have your hand up. >> Good evening.
>> Good evening, >> Kevin Janos. Uh, I'm here in regards to the temporary DPW storage yard at Bethany Church. During the last council meeting, I had asked the following. How was a new driveway and fence installed at Bethany before a final council vote
and before a lease was signed? How was the work authorized? This question was not answered. The council introduced and pass ordinance number 2525 to authorize the lease agreement with Bethany Church. However, before that ordinance was passed and before any lease was signed,
the capital expenditure of nearly $60,000 was made on private property. The breakdown of costs that you provided were fence $18,000, wind screening $3,500, rear access driveway $38,000.
So that's a total of $59,500. Can you please clarify for the community the process by which this nearly $60,000 expenditure was approved and completed?
>> Mr. Pollock, would you be able? Sure, sir. I don't I don't mind answering it. I do respectfully disagree uh that that question was not answered. I believe I did so in its entirety. I'm happy to tell you again. On an early October, a unanimous resolution was passed
authorizing the lease of the property for Bethany. It was determined very uh relatively soon after that that procedurally it needed to go to an ordinance. I had every expectation for the ordinance to pass uh based on the
ordinance I'm sorry on the resolution passing as I explained during the meeting that the driveway fence was needed for the lease of Bethany. The lease of Bethany was not required
in order to do those improvements. So, as we can see, the prolonging of that ordinance, we're not going to commence the lease until January 1st. If I didn't do this before the weather, we certainly would not have been able to make those site improvements in order to
be ready to commence with the um with the lease. The money for that was properly funded. There was open session discussions and ordinances were passed appropriating the money for that driveway for the fence and for the wind
screening. >> Uh is the those expenditures they're not against ordinance 2525. Do you have a list of the ordinances that >> I believe it was ordinance 2522? It's like auxiliary improvements for DPW.
>> Okay. So >> I might have that number I might have that ordinance number wrong sir. just you know. >> Okay. I mean I guess my main question is the capital the expenditure was done before everything was passed. So what would have happened if it didn't pass in
in the last council session? >> I don't know. I mean I understand where you're coming from but like I said I had every expectation in the world that that ordinance was going to pass and that the lease agreement would be valid. and I made a decision based on the
appropriately funded capital ordinance to make those improvements why it was still weather permitted. >> Okay. I I'm I mean I'm definitely going to formally request uh you know written authorizations of all the expenditures
against this. If you have it now or at at a future date, I would definitely want it. >> I think the community deserves to see >> I think you're going to have to open that, Mr. Jones. >> Okay. >> So you have to submit an opra form for that. So, what I can tell you, >> you can't make a request that >> I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. If you go to our website, on the website, you
scroll down to the bottom, you'll see several, I guess, pictures of current and past capital projects. If you click on uh the new DPW construction, you're going to see a recently created expense and funding source Excel spreadsheet.
>> Oh, that Mr. Alman's requested sheet. Okay. That'll be that'll tell you all the capital ordinances and funding sources for those improvements and the cost. >> Okay. I mean, I'll definitely operate myself. You know, I know from I'm not going to go by social media, but I know
a citizen did do that and and you know, found things against other ordinances. And I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. As a citizen, I I just don't understand why everything wouldn't be under one ordinance. like you have a capital expenditure, you have all of
these um monthly lease payments. Why wouldn't it all go against one um why wouldn't it all be voted on? >> So, I started here in August of 22 and from what I understand, this new building was torn down well before that and the funding sources for new building
were were initiated well before that as well. So along the way, different ordinances were funded to get the DPW building constructed. However, for whatever reasons, it just took longer than it was expected to get these done. So
the long and short of it is if you go on to our website, you will see all the different ordinances to fund it. So it's out and and you know, again, politely, I can't be held responsible for any misinformation that might be placed on social media unless it's put by myself.
>> Sure. A I guess you know for those ordinances especially if it was against that line item you know that's burrow property this is private property so I guess I would also question if in fact um money was used on an ordinance for
burrow funded property to me that would be a a big difference versus what was spent on private property at Bethany. So the ordinance specifically lists making improvements on other properties due to the construction of the DPW building and you could see that when you
see the ordinance when you read through it. >> Okay. Well, I guess I will operate that and take it from there. >> Most of it, sir, you won't even have to opra. It's just on our website under the the government pull down drop down andor on the bottom of the website. >> Okay. Thank you very much.
>> Thank you, Mr. I I would just say that um you know I uh am a proponent of clearing up our old ordinances. We have ordinances on our
books going back you know 5 10 probably even more. uh and I have asked on numerous occasions why are we using these ordinance for X Y and Z and
many of the open balances uh the residual balances and in some cases you know it's not uh insignificant money uh were recently
rededicated to the DPW effort so you I feel that uh when we look at the multiple funding ordinances, you know, uh it's just it's the nature of how money comes together
for these types of projects. You know, we have a million dollars that we've allocated to this million dollars in cash that was realized from the sale of a school building in Westwood probably 25 years ago, if not more, that
was sitting on our books for 25 years, waiting to be used. And we're using it now. Uh we've cancelled other ordinances that have been funded uh and we have the benefit of that cash. Uh so you know uh
I do appreciate your questions uh especially about uh making improvements when the lease hasn't been signed. Uh but from a ordinance perspective I you know this really clean cleaned up quite a bit of
noise in our uh in my opinion uh on the ledger with these old ordinances. So I think it's actually a good thing. Uh and when you look at the table that Mr. Daro refers to, you'll see that there's this consolidation that was done uh you know
earlier in the fall for that. >> Is there like a dollar amount threshold for each of these purchases or that that was it? So when you say it was spread to different ordinances, were was like the uh windscreening to one and a fence to another, the driveway to another? No, I
think it's more that um the ordinances and you know uh I'm sure Mr. Carlo will correct me if I misspeak. The the multiple ordinances in many cases they were uh I don't know the proper term the
multifunction ordinances. So, we could have had an ordinance from 10 years ago to buy a police car, to buy uh breathing apparatus for the fire department, to buy new radios, uh
a new dump truck. And after all those things were done, uh they came in under budget or maybe some of them weren't done and there is a residual that's sitting there. uh those were all cleaned up uh or gathered up and rededicated to
the uh effort or for the DPW. So, it's we don't have to go out and get new funding. it's been funded and we have it. Now, in terms of the line items that, you know, the the fence, the
uh driveway, the um other improvements, you know, I believe it's laid out in the table that Mr. D. Carlo is referring to. Uh so you could see the direct attribution of where that uh source of funds is.
So I guess my final question be so in the last council meeting which I think was December 3rd so ordinance 2525 for the lease passed the the driveway and everything that went up at least a couple weeks before.
So at what point do you have a date of when that act when that um expenditure was authorized? And I'm not sure you know I live a block away. I'm not sure when it was installed. Do you have a date of when it was authorized and when it was installed? >> Yes. I just I don't remember them off
the top of my head. Um I don't like throwing stuff out unless I'm accurate. But um the table that Mr. Olman is speaking of has the ordinances that it's associated, the expense, how
much was encumbered, how much was finally paid for. So, the ordinances that are associated with it, if you look them up online, it will tell you when they were passed. Okay. >> But the fence and this wind screening and the driveway were all under that
auxiliary DPW project um reappropriated line. Like Mr. was saying, we closed out old lines and we redirected it because it was funded money. We didn't have to borrow new money. We just had to do formalities of a new vote for an ordinance. And I think it was 25-22
I think or you know could have been 252 24. It's in there but it's all on the table um on the website. >> I mean the perception of the community the past two meetings obviously were very crowded. You had dozens of speakers speaking. So I think the general feeling
is that although it was voted on the lease in the last council meeting, these expenditures were done before that the work was done before that. So, you know, I don't know what we're fighting against, but I think that's
really a transparency issue that I hope you guys can work on going forward because I I really I felt blindsided as a a community member and I know I have a lot of neighbors that feel that way and um I think we just have to do better
about transparency for all these issues. >> Thank you, Mr. Jones. Would anybody else like to come up and address the council at this time? Seeing no, a motion to close the public comment period. >> So move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I
>> I. >> Approval of road opening requests. Road opening permit for water service at 134 Ridgewood Road. Correspondence dated December 5th, 2025 from Lawrence Kip Kramer, President General Counsel Associates.
>> So why do why are we reviewing this? because it's during the period of time where they're not supposed to. I can't think of the word now. I'm blank on the word. Um the morator if you look at the ordinance that's in there. >> Yes. >> Okay. From November 15th, April 3rd. >> Thank you. >> Yeah.
>> And the only way that he can do this is by the council listening to the request and granting approval that way. >> Okay. >> So, you have all the documents I have. >> Okay. >> You just have to decide what you want to do and we let him know. >> Do they pay it back um curve to curve?
And I think this for a curve box of its >> Well, didn't they know they had to open it up? >> Well, there seemed to be a little bit of an issue from what I understand. It came into the office beforehand and it did not go through like Violia
did not do jump on their part, do their part quickly. So, there was a lag time in between when they applied and when Violia >> Would you like to speak, sir? >> Was that you? >> Yes. Kim Crim. Yes. >> There you go. I said he could I said that he could come if he wanted to
explain anything and if the council would allow him to explain the situation. >> So Mr. Kramer could you just explain what happened? >> I absolutely can and council everybody okay if Mr. Kramer explains exactly what happened? >> Sure. Okay. >> So so the um Mr. Fan who is a resident of 134 Rididgewood has been for a number
of years um uh put in gained approval for the work to be done to his home. Um the project was started uh really in the last spring uh during the um the end of the fall. The it was recognized that there was going to be the necessity that
this project would go through the winter months. So we started the process back in June of of communicating with regards to all of the utilities including the water needed to be um a number of correspondents went back and forth. There was just some delays in time. I
can't even really quite frankly um Mr. Shu give an exact answer of what the timing was but it just didn't happen. And of course then what happened is the bottom dropped out on the temperatures uh recently. This particular home is going to be heated with radiant heat. So
water is a requirement and for that process to continue it would be incredibly helpful if we were able to do that. Apologize. We know it's difficult at this time of year to do so. Um but we can assure you that there was a lot of correspondence uh that did go back and forth between it just didn't happen for
whatever reason and our hope is that we can impose on this board tonight for your approval. >> So this work will be performed by your contractor or by Violia. >> Uh it'll be be by V. Yeah. Violia. >> So Violia is going to be responsible for the trench and and the the opening of the road and everything.
>> So they're going to infrared it when they're done like they normally would in the spring. I would hope. >> That's correct, sir. Does anybody else have any questions for Mr. Kramer? >> How big is this opening going to be? >> Shouldn't be that big. >> 10 by4.
>> Yeah. >> Was the building department notified of this problem? >> Uh the with respect to the problem of the the communicating or the fact >> or the problem you had to open up the road. uh they were we communicated
directly with the building department which is what put us in touch with um with Mr. Mr. Towski with respect to now having to go forward with the road opening for that because >> when did you communicate this problem to the the
building department just recently? >> Uh no it was back in June of when we started to communicate was the essence of the communication we need to open this road. >> Yes, it was the filling out the application. There was some back and forth regarding some checks that
happened with uh checks that were dropped off but then had some trouble getting them deposited for whatever reason. And then um quite frankly, you know, from that standpoint and honest answer is is it just because the weather had been so mild, it wasn't that big of an issue, but then suddenly the
temperature shot very quickly. When you say there was a problem with the checks getting deposited on on our end. >> No, there were there were three different checks that were dropped off over those that period of time >> the township, >> right? And were given to the township,
>> but they were not deposited for whatever reason. We kept following up for those reasons to catch up with it. It finally got figured out. The checks got deposited. The application there was a communication that would happen. The permits would be granted about a week from that point. This was in October.
And then of course it it it sort of fell by the wayside. >> That concerns me if we have a problem depositing checks. Mr. D Carlo, is you are you aware of such an issue at >> No, I can certainly follow up. I'd be very surprised because you know the billing department's well aware of our
um requirement to deposit checks in 48 hours. But >> okay, because that's that concerns me not only for this issue. If there's a problem, I'd like to be aware of if there's, you know, something going forward with that department. Um, okay.
>> Three checks, not deposit. Sort of >> doesn't sound right. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I can certainly follow up. >> Please, Mark. Thank you. >> I mean, these this this um house is um ready and heated.
>> What you're saying? >> Yes. I'd like to make a motion to approve this as submitted. >> Just when was the last time that road was picked? It's been it's outside the memoratorium. I don't know the answer, but it's not definitely not within the last three years. >> Okay. All right.
>> And Violia is going to be responsible in the trench. So, we have some Yeah, >> we have some recourse. >> We have some recourse. >> Okay. So, so I'm sorry. I thought it was coming before us because it was within the moratorum. >> No, the road itself like you can't open
up a new road within 3 years of it being paved. I believe >> that's right. But this is the winter month we have in township also. We have a winter. >> You're not supposed to. You wouldn't have even known that. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So I I' I'd make a motion to approve it. Would anybody second?
>> I'll second that motion. >> All in favor? >> I >> I. >> Miss Vez, >> I thank you. >> All right. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, sir. >> Good luck. >> Thank you all. Uh Mr. Mayor, just want to repeat one thing to you and the
council. Um uh I do get the opportunity to do this kind of work throughout really all different parts of the United States and this this process in Washington Township with both your building department and with Mr. D. Carlo has been one of the best I've ever seen. So I purposely waited until this
was done to be able to say that to you. But I just want you folks to know this is it is rare in the opportunity that I have to have the professionalism that we see in what has gone on. So we just want to thank you for that. I want to thank you folks for your service and we appreciate your time. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Ordinance adoption, second reading, none. Introduction, first reading. Ordinance number 25-26, an ordinance amending chapter 212 of the ordinances of the township of Washington titled fees. Motion to introduce and pass ordinance number 2526 at first reading by title. Do I have a motion? So move.
>> Second. >> Any discussion? >> Roll call. >> Councilman Casio. >> Yes. Councilman Sears. >> Yes. >> Councilman Omen. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman BZ. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. Resolution number 25-360. Authorize
public ordinance publication of ordinance number 2526 and schedule a public hearing. Do I have a motion? >> So move. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Councilman Casio. >> Yes. >> Councilman Sears. Yes. >> Councilman Omen. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman BZ. >> Yes.
>> Council President. >> Yes. individual resolution resolution number 25-361 authorize 2025 transfer of appropriations $13,000. Do I have a motion? So move. >> I'll second it. Any discussion?
>> I just have one question. How do these um how do these transfers factor into the budget process next year uh or the coming year when
you know office supplies are needed uh in the clerk's office. Um there were uh less less money spent in these other lines. uh financial appraisal services
and the LOAP program. So, how does that work its way into the uh budget process? Uh if we do a run rate or do we do bottoms up? Um I I believe I understand what you're saying. So,
it was actually initiated for these two fire cabinets um for budgetary requests for next year. And in order to reduce the budget for next year, I thought we could purchase some this year out of, you know, some of
the the money that wasn't spent. >> Where are these fire cabinets going, Mr. Carl? This is in the clerk's office. >> My office went downstairs to hold all the books cuz that is the history. >> They right now are in. >> So, we're sure that the floor can hold this fireproof cabinet up on that second
floor. >> I should I hope so. I had a municipality where we moved a building department because the building was going to collapse because they put all their fireproof cabinets on the second floor. Yeah. And the building was actually sagging so much that people were afraid to walk under it. So, we had to
>> restructure the whole building. So, just want to make sure it's going in a place that >> Well, one's going up and one's going to go down. >> There's no way both can go down. Did you say >> one? Oh, >> I mean, we could try. We've been in Northern >> I just I get concerned when I hear >> No, it's valid concern. And I just
didn't. >> They had 20 25 side by side and they didn't realize the detriment to the building, the 100-y old building they were doing. So, we had to move everything. >> No, I I just didn't think as far as where they were going to go. I was just trying to buy them. >> All right. >> For now. >> Uh but to to answer Mr. Alman's
question, you know, purchases like this, we it's not that we want to go Christmas shopping at the end of the year, but this is when we get through, you know, 99% of the year and we know for certain that an expense like appraisal services from the finance or tax assessor's
office isn't going to be needed. And that's one of the, if you remember, that's always the budget line I I fight to to keep uh the council budgeting it because you never see it used, but it's kind of one of those ones when I need it, I'm going to need all of it. Um, and then the length of service program, you
know, the anticipation of how many people are going to fall within compliance to actually get LO SAP. We feel that the the budgeted line is 95,000. So, taking 5,000 down to 90. Um, we should definitely be fine lent the service because I look back what we had
spent on that the last couple years. And the let the service program is one of those that we we fund based on the fact that we believe everyone is going to meet the criteria to get paid out. That's why we fund it with the 95,000. And the reason we are going to put it in the clerk's office supplies is that's
the department that's asking for it. And that way you guys can see um a track of what was purchased out of the office supplies. We have no intentions of requesting that much money in the actual operating expense sign for the clerk's office. >> Okay.
>> This will really this will help us reduce the ask for next year. >> Thank you. Any any other discussion? >> Roll call. >> Councilman Casio. >> Yes. >> Councilman Sears. >> Yes. >> Councilman. Yes.
>> Councilwoman BZ. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. >> Resolutions consent agenda. The following items have been determined to have unanimous consent of council and will be enacted in one motion. Should any item require independent consideration, any council member may have such item removed from the consent
agenda. Uh we're going to have uh 25364. We're going to remove that. That's going we're going to remove that for closed. Right. >> Mhm. >> Uh 25364. Gotcha. >> Any others, ladies and gentlemen?
>> Um, can uh No, that's that's fine. >> We're good. Resolution number 25-362 certification of the 2024 audit. Resolution number 25-342, approving 2026
towing services. Resolution number 25-363 authorized refund of engineering escrow and cash performance guarantees for various projects as listed in the total amount of not to exceed $21,214. Resolution number 25-365
authorized renewal of shared service agreement for vehicle maintenance and repair by and between the burough of paramis and township of Washington for a year of 2026. Resolution number 25-366 authorize shared service agreement for vehicle maintenance or repair by and between the burrow of Hillsdale and
township of Washington for the year 2026. Resolution number 25-367 authorize execution of amendment to the shared service agreement between Saddle River and the township of Washington for shared service agreement for court. Motion to approve consent agenda resolutions as presented. Do I have a
motion? >> So move. >> Second. >> Roll call. Councilman Casio, >> yes. >> Councilman Sears, >> yes. >> Councilman Omen, >> yes. >> Councilwoman BZ, >> yes. >> Council President, >> yes.
>> Ajourn to conference agenda. Do I have a motion? >> So move down. >> We're going to do that in closed. >> Anybody second it >> to conf. >> All in favor? >> I. Next meeting of the township council
will be on Monday, January 5th, 2026. Sai meeting 2026 reorganization meeting beginning at 7 p.m. Sign up for Nixl 07676 to 888777 key code TWWP Bergen. Thank you
everyone. Okay, moving over to conference agenda, building department, the mayor and Mr. D. Carlo. >> Yes, thank you, Council President. Um, I'm going to be a little vague and you'll see why in my explanation. Um, but in the building department, uh,
because it involves a a personal matter and a personnel issue, um, there is an expected, um, that one of the individuals working in the building department will be out. They've been out since the beginning of the month and they may be out uh, a
little bit into January. Therefore, leaving only one employee to do the work of scheduling inspections and issuing of permits and certificates of um occupancy and such. So, what I was proposing is
the accounting will ultimately be correct, but I would like to offer the one individual working in the building department extra hours to make up the work that's getting left behind by the uh the individual that's out for the
month. What we would do is that individual works 35 hours. They would have uh the opportunity to work five hours at straight time which is 2975 that's out schedules all the inspections and does most of the issuing of the
permits. The funding source ultimately we will over encumber the appropriate salary line for um for that individual. However, the funding will come from the building department special project if
you remember. >> Why not the line item that that person would be paid from? >> Because the salary lines are um exact. So if someone makes like 42,3113, that's what we put in the line. So ultimately what I'm asking you for is
I'll come to you in January requesting a transfer from the building department special project line and transfer it into the person's appropriate salary line. So you will see the accounting correct as to how much they made. But there's not enough money in that
person's salary line because it's essentially down to the penny. Believe really it's like down to the penny. The line that >> if that person's off the whole month they're not getting paid for it. they are getting paid. Again, I I'm more than willing to discuss offline. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah, that person getting offline. So,
just to remind the council where it's coming from, you had given me 15 thou I'm sorry, 5,000 wishful thinking. 5,000 uh to do that building department special project. We were able to get it done without using very many work hours. And I have a balance of 3,600. I'm not
expecting all that 3600 to be used by this individual because we have, you know, Christmas and the holidays coming up. Um, but it will give me the ability to offer them a few hours overtime most likely on a Saturday or Sunday to come in off hours and catch up on the work that's left behind from that. And
>> this person has the knowledge and ability to do this work. >> Yes, it's the only other person that has the knowledge and ability. >> And is this person exempt or non-exempt? >> Uh, they are. So they are not exempt from getting overtime if I think I you're if I understand your question
mean like are they can they earn overtime? >> Yes. >> Yes. But they have to work they only work 35 hours. So they wouldn't be privy to overtime until they exceed 40. So the first five hours would be at a rate of 2975 which is their hourly rate right
now in the job they do which is the technical assistant. and the overtime rate if it exceeds 5 hours in a week, which again it may. I'm I'm not really counting on it, but I don't want to tell the council it's not going to happen. Any hours over 40 in
one word Greek would be $4463. And again, it's essential because it's the residents, you know, the residents will they will things will fall behind. >> I'm okay with Anybody else have any questions for Mr. Carl? Everybody else okay with it? >> I'm okay with it.
>> You're okay with it? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mark. >> Thank you, sir. >> Council, uh, miscellaneous 2026 meeting dates. >> Does anybody have a chance to look at all the meeting dates?
>> I'm good with >> everybody okay with the dates? >> Yep. Yes. >> All right. We're good with the dates. Masks. >> Thank you very much. We'll move on that >> usage of meeting room at the firehouse seniors. So, um
>> I'm sorry. We don't have um the township doesn't uh have a holiday on the 19th >> of January. >> Nope. >> No, there's not a >> recognized here. >> Do we want to move it to the 20th or we can't because somebody else has the
room? Last year we left it on Monday, right? We >> left. Look, we were here. >> We were here on the 19th place. >> I know. I thought there was discussion about not having it on that day, but >> I'm I'm okay with leaving it out that
day. Is everybody else okay or anybody wants to move it? >> I'm fine with it. >> Mr. C, are you okay with it? >> Yeah, I'm fine with it. >> M, you okay with it? No. Yes. >> Mike, you all right if we have it that
day or you we uh >> No, I mean I mean I prefer not to but it you know consensus then. >> Okay. >> So next thing on the miscellaneous agenda is usage of the meeting room at the firehouse for seniors. Um I was I
was got a emails and phone calls. Uh I know Mr. D. Carlo and I spoke and uh a decision was made by the administration to move the senior meetings to the firehouse because of the ongoing construction at town hall. And I know a
bunch of the um fire personnel and uh I haven't spoken to anybody from the ambulance corp, but fire personnel is a little uh concerned about this with the seniors parking in the lot and pulling in and out of the lot and the seniors being there walking possibly when a truck is going out or when the men are
and women are arriving. Um, so I I didn't know if maybe we could ask Val Valley for a few more spots for senior days and bust them up here with the bus so we can keep the meetings here and kind of alleviate the concerns the fire department has or or are we we have to
have it at the m president. If I may politely just correct you I don't the decision wasn't made. The idea was broach and it's topic. I just wanted to make sure that >> All right. I'm sorry. I thought that's why I was >> Yeah, it was a discussed topic. It wasn't a decision made. >> So, I was so I want to do that.
>> So, one of the one of the um you know hopefully we can come to a compromise and have Valley let the seniors park there and we can bring them here by bus um or let and let the certain seniors that need to come here and can't come by bus and we could
keep the meeting here to alleviate some of the possible concerns that the fire department has that were laid to a bunch of the council. Well, um, if I can, uh, let me give you the whole story as I was in on it from the beginning. >> Yeah. Again, we just found out about
this through emails and through put it on the agenda. >> It's not a done deal yet. Hence, it's still good enough. >> Yeah. The seniors came to me uh with concerns while the construction's going on because the parking lot's bad enough without the construction and uh so it's
uh it was a concern of theirs and we share the concern uh the administration. So, uh, we researched one or two other places and then, uh, you know, we said, "All right, well, maybe we can use the firehouse." So, I spoke to the, uh, the director of it who brought it to the
officers and, uh, let me say, we we plan on having a meeting to discuss all the concerns. Uh, you know, in that meeting will be uh, administration, a member of the seniors, and uh, whoever, you know, fire wants to bring to discuss the concerns that, you know, I'm just glad
it's not cuz the way it was presented in emails. >> Well, that that that's why I don't like when things get out. >> That's why I wanted to put it out here and put it be transparent about it. Let's >> And that's Yeah, that's why I hadn't brought it to the council yet because it was still, you know, it's not a done deal yet. Let me say we're still
researching it and we'll talk about it. I'm hoping that meeting will happen as soon as sometime later this week. >> Okay. Everybody okay with that? >> Yeah. >> Anybody have any questions? My only thing is that um
when the building was being put up uh I had raised the uh possibility of using it for um >> town events. not not so much town events
but uh in the event of an emergency uh where people can shelter and was advised that you know the amount of activity uh really precluded it and it wasn't
advised that the public be there uh to uh you know shelter there or uh because of the amount of activity. And the only, you know, my only observation
would be is that if you park in the commuter lot or the fire department, >> then there'll be no place for the firemen. That's what my concern is. >> Well, not even that, but you know, based on my recent tour of the building, you
have to walk across the the five bays, >> correct? >> Um, so, you know, it's not ideal, I don't think. The if I may, Mr. President, >> go ahead. Mr. >> The original firehouse was a
staging area in case there was a disaster. The old firehouse, the new OEM regulations took that firehouse out of the book. So, responding and storing people there. Uh, during the the hurricane
that went on, the firemen were sleeping on the floors and everything, too. and realize you can't have a mixed group going in between, you know. So hopefully this will come to a solution.
>> Okay. All right. I just wanted to, you know, >> there was a lot of concerns. >> There was a lot of concerns presented to myself and to others on the council. I'm sure address them and it'll take its path. >> Thank you. That's why the next thing I wanted to see is if we had any uh
schedule, Mr. Mr. Mayor, in the last meeting, we talked about meeting with the ambulance squad to follow up on the on the June incident. Um, if you able to set up anything on that. >> I I was and uh um I'll I'll just make an off-the cuff comment, but then I have a little statement to read about it. Um
and it was not to purposely omit you, council president, but just so happened on this past Thursday, all the right people, including myself, were in police headquarters, and so I wanted to get the information out to the public quickly. And uh you know if anyone on the council has any further questions after my
statement I'll be happy to uh you know get them answered. Uh but like I said if it was just happen stance that all the right people happen to be there. So if you can indulge me I'll just take a moment to read this. >> Um the following explains the specifics
of the incident in question while also explaining what procedure takes place for any call received for emergency medical service. A 911 call was received during which the operator provided first aid instructions to the caller while simultaneous contacting our dispatch
desk to request the necessary resources. Due to both local and mutual aid ambulance services being out of service at that time and date, mycom was contacted. Uh I'll just give a quick little explanation on my according to their website. The Northern New Jersey
Northern New Jersey Emergency Medical Services Communication Center aka MCOM provides emergency medical dispatch services to the emergency medical community. Their responsibilities include the dispatch of basic and advanced life support, air medical
dispatch, emergency medical dispatch call screening and pre-arrival instructions, ambulance mobilization for large-scale or high-profile incidents, mass casualty support services, hospital diversion tracking, and dispatch education.
Now, returning to the details of that incident, our officers arrived on the scene within 3 minutes of being dispatched. They administered oxygen to the patient who subsequently became responsive. After approximately 5 minutes, our dispatch followed up with MYCOM regarding the status of the
requested assets. Both units were in route. One was located on Soldier Hill Road in Oridel and the other on Washington Avenue in Westwood. The ALS unit reached the scene within 19 minutes after the initial dispatch. Um, also
since the previous council meeting, I have spoken with County Executive Tedesco about ALS and BLS response times. He indicated ongoing efforts to improve these metrics and anticipate sharing positive develop developments in the next few months.
So, you know, basically, if I had to kind of summarize that, um, you know, it it's a matter of resources where they're placed and and if you know, if you happen to call at a busy time, you know, it's very unfortunate, um, what happens,
it seems, but, you know, that's that's all I can say about it. Um, you know, I'm not here to place blame or anything. It was just a fact. >> Nobody's placing blame. the fact finding >> just that you know the parents have reached out to both you and I both personally and >> yeah and the police chief also
>> police yes we had we had the child signed up with the police so they know when that house calls and all that and appreciate all Mr. uh your Mr. Chief Calamari did with the family. They appreciated it. But still 19 minutes for a child that is unresponsive is
>> Yeah. I >> I just want to make sure that if there's something that this council can do, um I I know we talk about, you know, the 10% and all that BS all the time in politics, but there is no 10% when it
comes to a life. And 19 to 25 minutes of a of a of a mother or father or any adult or any human being waiting for life uh support is too much in my mind. And you know, I don't know what the council wants to do if we want to look at other avenues to
>> we have mutual aid. We have volunteer ambulance. You know, same thing like volunteer fire department. >> Yeah. >> You hit that perfect storm. You have to keep going to the next level, the next level. And that happened to be the perfect storm.
>> One thing I should add is just because the person became responsive, uh, that was not even conveyed to my com. So they were under the assumption that he unrespons Yeah. that they were still needed. But as as council just said, unfortunately the perfect storms do happen. Okay. Uh you may recall that I
think beginning of last year or end of the prior year, we looked into maybe a shared service with the Hillsdale and Rivervale. But again, that's far from perfect and the amount of money they were asking was too much for what >> Well, but when you have a situation like this,
>> you know, I I I I tend to think money is no, you know. >> Yeah. Nobody's going to complain about an extra $20 in their tax bill to have it. And that's why that's why I want to make sure we're entertaining all the avenues we can. >> That's exactly what I said to the county exec also. I said people don't like when
their tax is going up, but for something like this, they will certainly understand even if it's a county tax as opposed to and he's very optimistic. He didn't go into detail, but he's like I'm very optimistic. >> They bought 50 ambulances for our reason. >> Let's hope for a good reason. >> Yes.
>> Thank you. But so Mike, I appreciate your comments, but there is a ultimately there's a cap on this, you know, because we could we could put uh
you know full-time rigs in the uh ESB. >> Well, that's what I was asking. Do we need to go down that avenue where like cuz I know a lot of towns have a full-time rig there and they bill the insurance companies and I know we did get some initial feedback on that and I
was told that if your your insurance doesn't pay for it they will not go after you personally. So, is that an avenue, you know, the council wants to go down? Because I still look at it as, you know, it it had to have been 19 minutes of hell for
those parents and for the officers on scene. And God bless them. They the parents said the officers got there within like it felt like no time, which is true. It was like under two minutes, 3 minutes. >> Um, but >> and again, they were thrilled that, you know, when the police got there and did
the oxygen, the child became responsive. Um, and again, uh, just to say one other thing, um, the the county exec even said to me because I said to him, uh, you know, did we do something local? He said, please don't throw money at this. I think what I'm going to have to announce is that good that, you know,
don't throw money at a local level just yet. >> Okay. >> So, what do we know what is the escalation process? I mean, is it first to go to the Washington Township volunteer?
It's to go to them or one of the other local partners if they are in service. >> So them or Tri is it Tribar? >> No, Tribar is further up north. I don't I forget if ours even has a name these days or not, but >> Okay. >> So that would be Hillsdale and uh
Westwood. >> Um I I'd rather not misspeak. I I don't know. >> So one of the local volunteer uh >> Yeah. And that's that's first then if if they're in service and if they are not on a call already.
>> Okay. And then it rolls over to the county >> to this mycom system. >> So there the county is part of my >> um yes the county ambulances are part of my >> and my then takes over and dispatches.
>> Yeah. They they work with either the hospital units and nor the county units. And on this particular dates uh based on what based on your meeting >> that first level of response was not available. Either they weren't in
service or if they were in service they were already responding. >> Um no uh we we checked no one was in service of the locals. >> Okay. And uh yeah, if if I can just bring to council's attention, I don't know if you were waiting on that to uh vote on this
uh this resolution for the uh ambulance contribution that was tabled at the last meeting. Uh cuz it's not I don't see it on the agenda and it was not in the >> I don't think it was it t >> Well, it was voted on the bill. Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's why >> but that's why there's a special resolution tonight because that's the
right procedure when something gets voted off the bill list. Um, >> y >> and I just don't see it anywhere in the in the conference agenda. >> No, we >> No, because it was basically prepared so that if the council decided to move on it, we had to >> Yeah. So that's now might be the
appropriate time. >> Yeah. >> To take a vote on it, if you will. >> Are there any actions coming out of that other than >> um, you know, we're waiting for the county to provide some further
explanation? That is that is the only one. However, as part of this, I have uh reached out to the ambulance corps um and per our budget discussions earlier this year, they have uh detailed stats uh for this year's calls as does the uh the police desk since they get the
calls. So, into next year's budget season, we'll have a lot of statistics to make, you know, better decisions with. >> Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. I'd I'd like to uh make a motion to suspend the uh agenda and introduce
resolution number 25-368 for payment of the ambulance contribution um resolution number 25368. Do I have a motion? >> So move >> second. >> Any discussion? >> Yeah. Have we what have we contributed
to them already >> this year? >> Um we we do it quarterly. So, they got 30 of the 40. >> Any other discussion at this time, ladies and gentlemen? >> Roll call.
>> Council, excuse me. Councilman Casio, >> yes. >> Councilman, >> yes. >> Sorry. Councilman Sears, >> yes. >> And Councilwoman Veles, >> yes. >> And then Council President, >> yes. Thank you.
Uh, item number four, County Dispatch Police Shared Services. Mr. Alman, you want to start on this or you want me to? >> Um, I just uh wanted to raise the uh topic again of county dispatch. Um
I think LA uh over the course of this year it's come up in uh passing uh two or three times. But I I think it's worth putting on the agenda and you know having a serious discussion on
utilizing the county uh for dispatch for full dispatching. Uh so that's that's why I've added it and you know if there's uh >> I'd like to receive a proposal on it to
at least see what the costs are and what the cost >> and their services >> and their ser we is there is it possible Mr. Mayor to get a detailed proposal for >> it. It was brought up uh during the budget season this year and the police did uh work on a list of things that
would have to happen um to outsource it. So, uh, seeing it on the agenda, I reached out to them. Uh, it had been, you know, quite a few months since they put it together. So, they will now look at it again, make sure it's still good and, uh, you know, we can bring it up in not, you know, maybe not the reorg
meeting, but subsequent meetings. >> So, have we reached out to the county? You're saying to the county or to our just our internal police department? >> Um, just our internal police department so far. Um, I can certainly reach out to the county also and start a dialogue with them. I I think in order for us to
to to to move to do have any discussion on this, >> I think we need to know what the costs are and what the services provided. And I don't know if it'd be too much to ask of like after we receive that, maybe we could sit down with the police
department and determine what we provide right now and what we would get from the county and if there's a course >> there's a there's a a minus or a plus uh you know so we could weigh all our our uh >> I would also include the fire department in the ambulance score because some of
the fire departments are getting dispatched out of the county so they could bring more information on the quality and response that we're getting from the county, the fire department side and the ambulance also. >> Okay. >> I also think I don't know if we want to
limit ourselves to county because I don't think that's who we use for d 911 at the moment. We use >> we use no uh northwest >> northwest. Yeah. >> So >> yeah, I guess can we get a proposal from both? I mean is >> um Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If we're
going to go in, let's go in. >> Yeah. I mean, because if if the numbers come back that it's it's it's economical to leave it the way it is or if there's, you know, a value in in, you know, whatever we could do to the taxpayers, that's what we need to look at. >> Yeah. And again, you know, I I'll
probably say this multiple times, but I think you all know it. Uh it shouldn't just be a monetary decision because there are certain intangibles that, you know, having it on site, you know, bring to the table also. So, I just ask you all to keep that in mind as we're going through this process. >> Okay. And Mike, it has changed
drastically since it was um you know conceived up at MAWA. I mean their their services have gotten better. I think that's one of the reasons that we didn't initially go with them because they were still in growing pains. >> Fairly new. Yeah. >> We talked to Westwood about doing it together. It was the same thing. they
had the same concerns, but it has gotten it has improved uh dramatically over the last I mean >> well a lot of our surrounding towns are fully dispatched but a lot of our surrounding towns and talking to other chiefs and officers of surrounding towns >> use the service and don't have an internal dispatch anymore if that's the
only reason I just like to look at it and see what it could do. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Mr. Alman, the ESB tour. >> Yeah. So, um I have to apologize. Uh I don't have a uh hard copy of uh what I
wanted to speak about and I can't get into my email. Uh but basically uh m at my request uh Mr. D. Carlo was uh kind enough to meet me one morning and take a tour of the emergency
services building. Uh a very uh detailed tour. We walk through all the bays uh both on the ambulance and the fire side. We walk through all of the common areas, the offices, the meeting rooms. Uh so I
appreciate uh Mr. D. Carlo uh taking that time. Uh there were a couple of things uh or one thing that really stood out uh to me personally and was addressed immediately uh was the uh sheet wall
>> in the rear of the building, >> the steel >> which uh you know Mr. Connley says is okay but requires uh regular monitoring, monthly monitoring. I guess my only question with that is uh he recommended
I think that someone on the uh fire department do it. >> Yeah, our engineer is going to do it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh but and there were but the reason I had added this there were a few uh sort of less significant issues. Uh
there were uh some trees that were laying on top of the building. Uh there were um uh nests in uh some of the signage, the exterior signage. There was some damage uh within the building. So I I wanted to
review that or walk through that. Uh but unfortunately, >> Would you mind sharing your uh >> I have your list with me, Mr. If you want to read it off what you sent me. >> Oh, sure. >> I was going to ask him to share. >> I have the answer, but I never tell them.
So, um, okay. Uh, in addition to the steel retaining wall, there was a stone retaining wall that's adjacent to the, uh, fire department and, uh, commuter parking lot. It backs up 669 and 665
McKinley. That had some It looked like visual issues. >> Yeah, it looks it looks a little wavy. So, you know, my concern is uh it's up only I don't even know how many years and it's already showing signs of uh
possible um fail I don't know failure is the right word but it's certainly showing signs of uh trouble. So, I ask that you know that possibly be looked at. Um within the parking lot there are
lengthy uh cracks that run both north and south and east and west. I don't know if that's related to you know settlements uh if it's related to underground pipes
um but to me the parking lot shouldn't be cracking like that. So I don't know if Mr. D. Carlo has a >> was it the retaining wall and the the cracks. The only thing I don't have an answer to. >> So the first two for two.
>> No, the first was the steel. >> Okay. Um there was uh on the ambulance side there was uh some damage done to one of the doors uh to one of the sleeping quarters. It just
um and it didn't look correct. Uh and since we have the county uh also using the facility, you know, uh how did it, you know, how did it potentially happen and is it being corrected?
>> Yes. So, it was not the county, it was um one of the ambulance squads and the story I got was that the individual actually became locked in the bunk room. So, in order to get out, they had to kind of like knock out the handle. So, it looks like looks like the police got
through it like, you know, a ram or something, but there's a hole in it. I spoke with the the president. They are paying for it. You know, it's not coming out of our budget. Um, and they are repairing it and they are getting quotes from different different contractors to fix it.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um the other thing ju similar to the uh steel retaining wall on the rear uh within the building there are a number of cracks
that are visible on the first and second floor and they appear you know to my unprofessional eye that they run along a similar line through the building. Uh I don't know if that's normal. I mean the
building is three years old. Three four years old. So if that So is that something we should be concerned about? >> Has Mr. Conley reviewed these? Mr. >> So in September, well before the tour of Mr. um man, myself, the mayor, our uh
uniform construction code official, I think a representative from the ambulance and a representative from the fire department went did the exact same thing Mr. Man did. We went around the entire outside uh the entire inside and all those little um I guess I'll call
them stress fractures um were shown. So So they were showing you their sheetrock and what they do is they follow like if it's a cinder block it doesn't go through the integrity of the it doesn't affect the integrity of the cinder block. It follows like um the concrete
joints the grout line. >> So and then when after Mr. Olman when I met with Mr. Connelly just last week or maybe a week and a half ago about the steel. I showed him all to get a second opinion and they everybody agrees it's nothing that's infecting the integrity
of the building. Nothing that's a safety issue. It's essentially a cause cosmetic. But it it is it is kind of where um if you've been in the building or if you can picture it, it's kind of where the the ambulance is the bays end
and then upstairs. So, I think it's kind of like where concrete was meeting wood. And again, I'm not a builder. Um, and that's where some of the stretch fractures are in the hallway leading to the bump rooms. Like the there's like concrete floor, I think, that goes from plywood to to concrete, if I'm using the
right terms. So, everything was viewed by the the construction code official, then again by um the architect, and they're all essentially saying it's like settling settling um you know, indications. nothing to be concerned about.
Um and then the last item uh was uh again there were trees that were uh overhanging or laying on the roof of the firehouse on the rear as well as uh in the
uh commuter lot in the far corner uh adjacent to 680 Washington. There's a tree that, you know, just looked a little overgrown and, you know, could those be elevated and or uh trimmed back and that was the items uh that I had
asked follow up on of Mr. D. Carlo. >> So, Dab's Tree Service came and topped those those trees with the branches that were hanging over towards our roof. um it was completed more on the fire department side and as we got down to the EMS side, the resident that's on
McKinley uh became a little upset. I did speak with her. She just wanted to maintain like I guess the aesthetics of her tree. So, we kind of halted for a second and then the tree that's kind of down by the commuter lot behind the the fireman shed that didn't get done yet. I think DPW probably will be able to get
that. But, uh most of the tree branches that were coming towards our building are done. maybe almost be done, but uh we're going to reconvene with that resident and kind of agree on the how we're going to do this. The uh the nest and the emblem in the front, it's a
closed back emblem, so the nest of the bird isn't going to get into any electrical or cause any type of fire. And uh the only other thing that you forgot was the fit test machine. Um, you wanted to know if it was possibly an avenue for revenue and the fire
department reminded me it's not our fit test machine. I guess we utilize it with another town. Did you actually >> I thought we got a grant for that. Wasn't >> apparently it's not ours but but they also told me if it was theirs, >> they wouldn't be looking to do that only
because they wouldn't want to assume the responsibility for for other agencies. But um I think you know >> it might be a discussion you can have better during the budget season when they're on but other words it was told to me that we kind of share that device.
It's not ours to make the money off of but even if it was it's something um you know I'm not doing a great job of explaining why potential liability potential liability and I uh I think that it's a >> that was everything should be >> Thank you. Anything else John? So on the
commuter retaining wall that you notice was a problem and I don't know if it was resolved that the person that borders that wall put his leader and gutter straight back towards that wall. So when
it rains and when it it it freezes it's expanding that wall. Now, I know the code official told him he needed to cut that that pipe back, but that could be some of the problem that the water is still flowing in there and it's expanding.
And also in the bay of 44, you notice that the floor is all cracked and peeling up again that they put that special coating on the floor. >> Yeah. It's all broken up under the wheel. And then if you you're looking
out towards Pascak on the Bay of 44, right to the left, there's starting to be a sinking uh section right by the bay door. And you can see pile of water always building up in that section there. >> Is that inside or out?
>> Inside. >> That's the first time I've heard of the pooling of water. When I was there with the architect, I tried to find the spots on the bay floor on the fire side. I think the fire engine tires were probably covering it, but they said, >> well, yeah, it was covered because when you're back with chunk,
>> it was probably the same. So, um, but they said that the the contractor for that would be more than more than willing to come back. And I heard the contractor myself say that he would do it. What they explained is that if it if it's kind of like um, forget it. I'm not
going to even do it. what he said made sense. But other words, the contractor will come back. If if if it's not the floor's not totally level and it just kind of peaks in one area, that's where it's going to, you know, lose its integrity and the rubbing from the tires of those big trucks is what's doing it. That's what I was told to me. But
regardless, he said that we can be able to get them back and uh you know, but we usually try and coordinate that like we did last time. It was in May once it got warm enough for the trucks to be outside overnight. And um you know politely I don't I don't think what Mr. Sears is
describing um is responsible for the integrity. We knew that that um leader was there. We worked it out with the homeowner with the engineer and where Mr. Olman was talking about was closer to the generator not over there. But when you look at it most likely the wall
settled a little bit. So it gives the appearance of being wavy. It's a very long run. But um when I get a chance I will speak with Mr. your Kim because it was the engineers that dealt with the site, not not the architect, but we can, you know, maybe I'll get a little more information from Mr. Sears on the
pooling of water and we can look into that. >> Thank you. Uh, Mr. Alman, you had the next item number six, director's conflict. >> I'm going to put so many on next time. Uh, >> you made your waties again. So the
uh this was uh I had raised it uh in one of my uh comments uh a few meetings ago. Um and specifically
it is where a you know I feel that a employee should not be a director of themselves. uh basically uh the employee is a director and the
department that they work within is under their directorship. Uh I feel there's a uh you know the director should be an independent source or independent individual not uh within the
department. Uh so I wanted to bring that up. Uh we're coming into the budget season. We're coming into the reappoint of directors. I think we approved them. I think so. Um,
you know, I didn't know if there was, uh, an appetite to discuss it, uh, or anyone else feel it was a concern. Uh, if not, you know, I'm happy to let it go. But I do feel it's something we
should uh, look at look at and explore. And >> I believe there are two instances currently. >> Okay. >> Um >> you had some Mr. Cassio. >> Yeah, I was just going to agree with
Mike. I know in the past we've had um directors working in different uh areas that were employees of the town and um the director should be in charge of just directing not employee so to speak in the town that's want to get a stipen of
the I don't know what's it up to $1,800 now 50 I believe. >> Okay. >> I think it's 1850. So I mean again there there can be a conflict of interest if one is employed and a director but I can understand um
sometimes you can't get a director too. So I can understand that as well. So there's two sides to that but I I understand your uh concern. >> Yeah. And I would just say that I I think we have another situation where we
have an employee who's a director, but they're not directing themselves. Uh, you know, I have lesser concern or no concern with that. It's where there's a direct line of the department into the
directorship. >> Understood. >> Can I just make a break? Okay. So ju just to make a stab at it, I recall this discussion, Mr. Omen, so I I did start to take a look at this um and then we got busy with other things, but as a
starting point, there's no there's no statutory prohibition when you're talk when you're talking about appointed positions, just for the benefit of the council, just so we know when we're talking about conflicts of interest and so forth, there, you know, elected officials can't hold to elected offices.
there is a statutory prohibition toward that not for appointed positions. So I think I recall we were talking about CFO uh was that one of the positions that's one that's one of >> all right so let I I can speak to that because I I did recall that when I saw
this on the agenda I went back and took a look at that precise one and then maybe if you want to identify the second one I can take a a further look at that. So as far as the director of finance CFO being the same person again starting
point is there's no statutory prohibition. >> So what you do is you look to uh the commonwealth for guidance on this type of a a question and there's a concept called the incompatibility of offices and it's a kind of a test that the cases
apply to see whether or not the offices are incompatible. um for example whether or not you know uh a person would favor one duty over the other that's in you know the exact that's that's one of the tests there's
several tests but in terms of the CFO and director there's a case on point I think that's close where the court held that the um the treasurer uh was the same person as the tax collector and that those were appointed positions is
believe it was a Faulner government maybe not but that was held to be not an incompatible situation. Your own ordinances say and as you probably know that the director of finance may also be the CFO probably in
recognition of the fact that I would imagine this issue was hashtag at the time that ordinance was adopted. Um there and the the other factor we have to consider when we're talking about incompatibility of offices is there's a
trend toward more flexibility in allowing for um dual roles. the CFO is a is a you know one such example. There's shar shared services now even though that's not directly on point but there's a statutory and a legislative trend
toward permitting municipal flexibility for the purpose of efficiency. Um and unless there's something glaring um there's there's a tendency toward finding toward a finding toward
compatibility versus not compatibility because of that that legislative recognition that there has to be flexibility. So rounding out in looking at all of these things including the township's ordinance I would say it's pretty clear that the CFO director dual role is not a problem under the
compatibility and you also have an annual audit. So you have a look at everything that the CFO is doing uh statutoily mandated. So I think that one is pretty clear in my mind my my opinion it would be but I could take a look at
the the other ones on the case. >> I understand what you're saying. So it, you know, to uh sort of sum it up succinctly, it's not against the law and it's not against our form of government. It's not against, there's nothing you
could find that says we shouldn't do it uh from a uh regulatory or a statutory perspective. It's allowed. That does not negate the need or the want for independence. I
mean you know again I have a viewpoint from uh the private sector but you know there are independent there's a requirement uh for independent directors on publicly traded
companies. I mean there's a reason why and I you know in my opinion I am not saying that you know anyone is breaking the law by having the director and the CFO be the same person. I'm saying I
prefer to see someone independent. That is you know my personal opinion. I'm not saying that the role is being done incompetently. I'm not saying that I suggest or you know uh imply that
there's anything wrong. What I am saying is an independent voice to me would be better than to have a captive voice and I don't know if that is enough to you know say no to an appointment. Uh, but
that would be my argument and that's what I'm asking. You know, do does the council because it's going to come before us sooner rather than later have that same opinion? Would they prefer to have an independent director in that role?
>> And I would only say that that's one of many factors to consider. It's not the only because you're right once there's no prohibition there is this engaging in a balancing and there are many other factors that need to countervail in the CFO director position as I said there's
an auditor that goes through all of that I don't I I think that one's pretty cut and clear but that's that's of course you know not my decision other roles you have to go fact case by case how hard is it to get these positions filled um all
of those things have to be considered against the concern you're raising, Mr. Roman. It's just a fact analysis and you have to consider it as one factor in others. >> Swan, did you say that you couldn't you couldn't be a director and an and an elected official?
>> Two elected officials, you you can't have two elected positions. So, a county uh >> can you be >> there can't be a >> can you be can you be an elected official and a director of a department >> in Faulner >> in the same in the same town? >> Yeah,
>> I would think that that would violate our ordinances. >> Okay. Thank you. >> A director and director you mean like a councilman and an employee? a councilman and a director who gets a who gets a who
gets who gets a stipul and a director. >> The same person is a council person >> as a director. As a director. >> Yes. >> Uh I would take a look at that. Take a look at that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I I'm not aware of that. >> Anything else for this item?
>> No. >> All right. Moving on to number seven. Capital project source funds and expert expense tracking. Mr. I believe is this similar to what you had posted on that Mr. D. Carlo posted on the website regarding the uh DPW building. Is that
>> No. Well, so first thank you Mr. Carlo for doing that. I think >> it looks great. So thank you. >> We'll see the benefit uh as residents become more familiar with it. Uh my only I just um
Mr. D. Carlo reached out regarding this because he felt uh probably rightfully so that he was surprised to see this on the agenda again. And my only question was um you know we have two other
potentially large capital projects uh 450 and the swim club and should we be doing something similar for those two uh items? >> Yep. I I mean as long as it's okay with Mr. Mayor, I have no problem.
>> Mr. Mayor, is that a fair request that Mr. Alman's making for Mr. D Carlo to have that done? >> Uh yes, based on Councilman Alman and for the citizens to see it as Mr. Janose was uh you know interested in it also. >> I think I think what's up there right now if we could have that the other two
projects that would be great for the citizenry of of the township because it does it does answer a lot of questions like Mr. D. Carlo said there's no reason to open because all the information that was requested is on that link now. >> Correct. So, um, >> if we could do that for 450 in the swim club, that'd be great.
>> Doesn't have to be done tomorrow. >> Just tonight, >> by Friday. >> Anything else on that? >> No. >> All right. Your next question number eight, vacation policy. So, this was a question that came up in our close
session uh as it relates to uh a contract that we were reviewing. And I had a question and I don't know if this is for discussion uh now or does it need to be
discussed in close session but I did have a a question about the manner in which vacation is earned and credited. >> If my opinion matters it's not specific to the individual we're talking about in close session. So
>> no I think it's a we're making a general general for everybody >> Mr. on. >> Mr. Whist is on. Yes. >> Mr. Whist, you with us still. >> There he is. >> I am. >> There he is. >> I mean, we could probably both because I I know Mr. Coleman had kind of two-part
question. one um about the recent employee release agreements and then how he just expressed the um how it's how it's administered you know I think uh uniformly between the the contractual
employees and the civilian non-contractual employees. So if I convey that correctly, you know, more than happy to discuss it um now. >> Okay. So Mr. West, I'll start. I I know uh one
of the questions Mr. Holman had is um when we were speaking when we were talking about the recent employee agreements um and I imagine I can tell say the names right because it's in Oakland but but the two police officers that were recently uh the employee
release agreements uh Mr. Elman thought that it may have been explained or maybe he interpreted it differently. Um but the way I understood it is sir is when we were talking about the recharging of acrruel banks time acrruel banks
where police officers we had said starting January 1st their time acral banks are you know their fault they're recharged. My understanding how we explain it is on January 1st they're recharged and they have a value of X.
Mr. Man again if I'm speaking incorrectly for you just just correct me. Um he felt that we were saying that that value was then um I guess payable immediately upon that officer and that's not how I remembered explaining it. So I
better explain it. There will be a recharging of the time acrruels January 1st January 1. those time acrruels will have a value of X, but they don't get paid out for it. They could essentially sit at home, you know, receiving full pay until all that time is is expended,
saying, you know, it could bring them to April 1st and then at that time they could retire. Um, that's how I understood. So then, you know, Mr. Roman I think was understanding as the recharging of the banks had a value of X and they could trade that in for that
value say day two and and retire and that's not how how I I understood it. So I didn't if if I misrepresented that conversation with Mr. Alman or how you felt if you can correct it and then see what um Mr. W
one is wanted to say, but that and let me say that is not what we do if if an officer did retire that they are not entitled to a payout. Specifically in the PVA's contract, they're only entitled to sell back half of their vacation time throughout the year. Has
nothing to do with retirement, but they can sell back vacation time and then they can also sell back um some personal time. I just don't remember how much. both of those are budgeted lines in the police budget, but I'll turn it over to
you in case I represented that wrong. So I I guess my question is um the recharge on date January 1st is that 100% of the time is available or
is it acred through the course of 12 months? So >> yeah, if I may, if this is if this is helpful, um and and obviously um there probably needs to be some historical
context for the township, but not unique to the township, vacation banks, personal day banks are very often recharged as of January 1st of a given year. Uh it but they're recharged in contemplation of being used throughout that year. So, by way of example, if I
have four weeks of vacation uh in 2026, my vacation bank as of 126 is 4 weeks. There have historically, at least as I understand it, in the township been no parameters on when I can use it during the year. So, if I'm a ski buff and I took my four weeks of vacation in
January and February, I'd have none left for the balance of the year. If I didn't take them because I'm a beach guy and I didn't take them till July and August, that's when I take them. So it is in contemplation of the entire year that the bank is recharged as of 1. But historically there have been no
parameters on when an employee can take that time. >> So when arises is if somebody for instance uses the using my example the four weeks of vacation in the first quarter of the year and then separates from our employment as of April 1.
they have in essence been on vacation on our time in a disproportionate way during that first quarter. So, in the context that Mark was just referring to, the the two police contracts, the um the veiled and threat, excuse me, use that
word, but the veiled threat is that if I get to January 1 of the next year, I can essentially be on vacation using my vacation days, my personal days, um during the first part of the year where the township is essentially paying me to be on vacation. And the quid proquo that
has been negotiated, if you will, for at least two of those contracts is for some cheaper price in a separation agreement. Uh, I will forego the recharging, that is the staying on into January of the ensuing year when essentially I'll be on
vacation. So Mark's right. It is not a dollar trade-off except we're permitted, you know, by contract up to 50%. But there is a dollar value to not having somebody on vacation for the beginning of a new year. Um, and maybe separating
from an employment as of 1231 at a cheaper value to the township. And that and that's why we had recommended and I think uh uh the the council was very smart in agreeing that in the most recent contract that we're doing that we've added a proration clause u because
it sort of um undercuts the negotiating posture of those contracts that we did recently. Um so that that basically you're only getting credit for the amount of time that you are there in the ensuing year even though your bank was recharged as of 1 one.
>> Well Mr. Whis if somebody was to retire on day one of quarter two and used let's say they got four weeks of vacation. Right. >> Right. >> So in theory in quarter one you would acrew one week of vacation but you took all four weeks of your vacation. Would
we be entitled to a do would we be entitled to a three-week refund on their last on the separation agreement because we've overpaid them for the three quarters that they didn't work because they separated from us on the end of quarter one. >> Am I I'm I'm just totally hypothetical.
I'm not not looking to go back, but I'm saying so so we have an employee, right? he or she takes four weeks in January, let's just say, because they're a ski buff, like you said, on on April 1st, they decide that they no longer want to
be a township employee, and they and they sign a separation agreement with us. Would we have a right legally to say you owe us 3 weeks of vacation because technically you did not work for those three weeks of vacation and acrew it? Is that the way our contracts are written now? I don't know if that's
>> Yeah. And I think that's why the pration Yeah. That's why the proration clause I think becomes important because the historic practice because I don't think that there was anything ever written in any contracts or agreements here to for the the problem was that there were no parameters on the ability to use the
time in the manner that you talked about. Uh and and I don't think that anyone ever bird dogged anyone on a proration. So >> and I'm not saying I want to bird dog. I just I was just looking legally like do our contracts state that now or they don't until this one the last. >> They do not. They do not. This as far as
I know this is this is a a first off where we've added the proration clause. >> Mr. Mr. West, I'm sorry to to but it's Mark. The police do not have a proration um clause. The DPW does. And I I I gave uh you you don't have it in front of you. I should have sent it to you too so
you had it right in front of you. But the council has it. They have the DPW, the civilians, and the and the police. And >> you and I had talked about perhaps even adding a a parallel provision to the employee handbook just to reaffirm the uh the proration >> right for vacation. Yes. But DPW clearly
states exactly exactly what they're asking. >> Okay. So if you separate before you separate early and you've taken it all Mark you you're you're required to pay it back. >> I don't know. I mean that's probably a better question for for Mr. WIS, but the
DPW specifically says all vacation time accured during the year shall be prrated based on the number of completed months should their employment be terminated for any reason prior to the end of the calendar year. And then you know the civilians it doesn't specifically say
that B but based on precedent um you know and that that's what Mr. Whis has seen it. We can we can very um easily add that. But the civilian uh handbook and policy does not allow for any type of payouts. Not for sick time acral, not
for personal time, and not for vacation. Um, DPW is the only one that gets uh paid paid for sick time acral and it's capped it's capped very low. I think it might it might be that 15,000 but again
um and and also I'm sorry vacation sellback can be for DPW. I haven't seen it since I've been here. No DPW employees. >> Yeah. And I think Mark, what we're trying to guard against is is not the the payment issue, but the disproportionate usage of time before
separation. And I think that that's what the proration clause that we just added to the one agreement does. It it makes it it avoids the situation we've had in the last several negotiations where the the veiled threat was if I stayed on to the new year, essentially you're paying for me to be on vacation.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Does that answer your question, Mr. For DPW, it's explicit in the contract. >> Yes. >> Police department, it is silent in the contract. So there is no proration. >> Yes.
>> For town hall or facil or civilians, >> it is silent, but we historically have done a proration. >> Well, I can kind I can say that not in Jess, but since I've been here, that
circumstance hasn't happened. The only two civilians that have um retired since I've been here have been DPW. So, contract covered them. And it's been at the end of the year. I haven't had anybody, you know, >> leave early. >> Well, um actually there was well, it was
a part-time a permanent part-time person. It was a you know, a clerk in the uh shared time between the the court and the um uh what was it called? And the purchasing payroll department, but again, they they had a few days and they used it. So we did not allow any type of
payout um for it. They they were told they had to use it um you know as part you know wherever it was. >> Okay. So there's there's pretty much it would be an easy enough provision to add. >> Yeah.
I mean you know again we have it in one it's silent in another. It's silent in a third, but we feel that there's um I guess prior precedent for civilians. I mean, is it worth
document? I mean, you know, the language for the DPW sounds pretty good to me. Uh, you know, if you're a full-time employee and frontload your vacation and leave mid year, >> you almost half your vacation, man. you
know, >> do you, you know, claw back that? I mean, I know I can't, you know, I have a, you know, I'm allowed, uh, uh, five weeks or four, four or five weeks, but I acrew that through the
course of the year. Uh, I could take it. You know, my manager allows me to take, you know, two weeks in February, for instance, if I wanted, but if I left when I came back, if I, you know, hit
the lottery and came back uh, and quit, I would have to, they would claw back that money because it hasn't been earned. To me, that's really what I'm concerned about. you know, we don't have that issue today in town hall. Uh, and
you know, maybe if we document it, we won't have to worry about it in the future. >> And, and I think that that I think that is the very point. It would be easy enough to add a provision to to our employee handbook to guard against the situation you just described. I think we've done it in the in the recent uh
agreements uh um you know, with the the two police officers. Um, but I think that uh it would make sense to add it to the handbook and I think that it should be something that is uh part of the discussion in the next negotiation with the PBA. >> Anything else, Mr.
>> That was it. >> Mr. Casio, you had LEAP grants on here. >> Yeah, LEAP grants. Uh, when I went to the league, there were some grants out there that I want to make sure that we have availability to. LEAP grant is um local efficiency achievement program.
And what that does that um helps us if we want to go into a shared service there's a couple different grants that go along with that. Uh I'm sure Mark is probably aware of them and um I sir just want to make sure that the council is aware of them and that we can use them
because we especially talked about you know the shared service with uh the county with the ambulance and um possibly uh dispatch and you know working with Pamis and Westwood and everything Hillsdale you know and there's there's
two types of grantes. ones called the challenge grant and those funds can be used to support a variety of costs related to investigating, developing, and pioneering a new shared service project with these other towns. Um, and I can send you the the form on that.
There's also another one under the LEAP program called the imple imple imple implementation grant. >> There you go. >> Implementation grant. There you go, Miss. Right. the the embro that's if you find something that you
can >> there is there's something that you want to do you can actually fund to implement it >> and and then the last one there's another one down here what's it called uh oh they uh there's one for cyber security which is big obviously these
times and then one for using the county coordination grant you know we coordinate something with the county like the ambulance or um who knows road crew or something like that we can use it for that I'll send that out to everyone by email, but I want to make sure that we're aware of it and that we're using it. There seems to be a
significant amount of money that they're really pushing that we can use. So, it's money that we get from basically the CDA and the state >> for the township and other towns locally. >> Correct. >> Let's take a look at that and, you know, save the taxpayers some dough.
>> Recording in progress. >> Okay. Okay. >> I guess I wasn't recording. I don't care about >> anything else. >> Uh yeah, Mr. >> There was one other thing and I was talking to Mr. Sears about it. You know
that um they have a carry, you know, concealed carry ordinance now or open carry in the state and there um townships and burrows are charging a particular fee. Um and I don't know, Mark, maybe you know more about it than I do. Um, most towns charge $150 fee.
Um, and a $50 fee goes to the victim's fund, I think, if there's a an issue. And there's quite a few towns that are uh giving that $150 fee back. They're not charging it. And I think, you know, in order to um start to go in line with
those other towns, I'd like to have a resolution to put those monies back. >> Mark, can you find out? >> What's it for, sir? >> Carry. carry fee for the police department. I'm not sure if they do. I mean, I know the state police has a fee. I'm not sure if
>> I don't even know if we have it. That's why I'm asking if we do have one. I'll send you the information mark. Just take a look, >> but I don't think >> Oh, that's true. >> Is this Is this an application fee or is it a fee? >> It's an application fee. >> Application fee. >> It's a $200 fee. $50 goes to the state,
I believe, for victims fund and the other goes to the municipality for processing. Okay. >> So, um that's my >> we have it. I don't even know if we have it. >> I don't even know. I have I didn't see it on the books, but if we do, we should. >> Chief, >> and you know uh we should definitely
maybe file that resolution to give that money back because it, you know, basically uh it impairs people to uh apply for that particular permit. >> Thank you. So, >> Council President, if you didn't mind, um Mr. West messaged me. Do you feel he
will be necessary during the closed discussion um for >> the personnel for police? >> Yeah, for the personnel for police. You want to stay on? >> Yeah. Can you just stay on for a couple minutes? We'll let him go first and then we'll be fair share housing after. >> Perfect. And then just to comment to Mr.
Casio, well aware of the leap. Um nothing so far unfortunately. Well, I don't know if it's unfortunate that um we can apply for, but if we do do any like studies of, you know, feasibility for service agreement, we can certainly get into that.
>> And then uh I also was messaged um by the attorney that was here for the the road opening permit and he's apologizing profusely and said the check issue was not with the township rather with the water company. Um >> Okay, good. >> He said he's he's he's happy to send a
letter to >> No, that's fine. That's all. Thank you. It's not. Sorry. I'll tell him. Thank you. >> All right. Resolution. Close session. Resolution number 25-369. Fair share housing and personnel police department. The township council anticipates that an open session will be necessary. Motion to enter into close
session. >> You might want to add in that other resolution that we pulled just >> easement with Valley National Bank. >> Oh, we're going to do the easement with Valley Bank. Also um resolution number 25-364 is also in
close session. Authorize entry into a grant of temporary easement with Valley National Bank. >> Those three item and the township council anticipates that an open session will be necessary. Motion to enter into close session. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> We'll take a fivem minute break for
Ricky. Hi. >> Thank you, Daisy. All right. Soon as Ricky turns the cameras back on, we'll go and finish the meeting. >> Ricky's ready. Okay, Ricky's ready. >> All right, hold on. I got to get myself ready, too. Give me a second.
>> Of course. >> Two things that go on now, right? >> Three things. >> AJ you. Washington Township Council is coming out of close session on 1215 2025. We are voting on resolution number 25-364
authorize entry into a grant of temporary easement with Valley National Bank. Do I have a motion? move. I >> have a second. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Councilman Casio, >> yes. >> Councilman Sears,
>> yes. >> Councilman Omen, >> yes. >> Councilwoman, >> yes. >> Council President Dennis, >> yes. Resolution number 25-370 authorize the mayor to execute employment agreement between the township and our Sanio Pakora to serve as chief of police. Do I have a motion?
>> So move. I'll second it. Roll call. >> Councilman Casio. >> No. With exclamation. I've never entered into an agreement with giving a contract with police chief. It costs us additional money in the end and I don't think that position
warrants a uh a contract as no other accounts employee has one. >> Thank you. >> Duly noted, >> Mr. Sears. Yes. Councilman Sears. >> Yes. >> Councilman. >> Uh I'm going to vote no. Uh I don't
question uh Mr. Fakura's qualifications. Uh the reason I am voting no is uh I don't believe that uh we should be extending an employment agreement to a
civilian who is uh leaving the PBA and being you know protected uh in a very similar manner or uh having a contract that uh has many of the um
terms terms of the PBA contract. So, uh I feel like they should not similar to Dr. Casio. Uh and therefore I am voting no. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Counciloman BZ. >> Yes.
>> And council president. >> Yes. Resolution number 25-371 authorized entry into a mediation agreement with the fair share housing center. Do I have a motion? >> So move. >> I'll second. Roll call. >> Councilman Casio,
>> yes. >> Councilman Sears, >> yes. >> Councilman Omen, >> yes. >> Counciloman BZ, >> yes. >> Council President, >> yes. Motion to adjourn. >> So move. >> Second. All in favor. >> Thank you everyone. Have a good night.
>> Have a merry Christmas and a happy Christmas. Happy New Year or whatever you celebrate. Happy holidays.