and I can't go Thank you for coming. Um, this meeting is being videotaped. Anyone wishing not to be seen on television may be excused. Please rise for the pledge of alle Oh, sorry. We have to go back into public. Can I get a motion to leave executive
motion? I'm so sorry. Can I get a second? Second. All in favor? Okay. So, now we're in public. You're being recorded. Let's pledge. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, hot mic to say this, but the board still has uh more discussion and so we have to go
back into executive to finish that discussion. Then we'll come back out when we're done. So that's why I was I wanted to try and start while everyone was coming in and everyone took a seat because we're going to ask for you to step out again so we can finish that conversation. We can go somewhere else. We go somewhere else. Yeah. Where can we
go? Anywhere. Okay. So can I have a motion to move back into executive in another room? Andbody can I get a motion? Motion. Can I have a second? Second.
Second. Are we doing it now or after? After. All in favor? All right. Okay. That was that was Linda. Can I have a second? Second. All in favor? Motion. Thank you. Uh, we already said
the pledge of allegiance. Let me go back here. Okay. Can I just get a second to get settled? Um, okay. Can I have a motion to open to the
public motion? Can I have a second? Second. Second. All in favor? I Okay, thank you. Um, Raymond W. All right. So, good evening board. Um, thank you for um, hosting today. This is very important. We have the
budget today as we know and we see on there. Um, but with everything going on and what's been seen and what's been heard and everything else, um, just seeing what it is, I'm honestly thinking like I have a like a lack of confidence um, in this board more than ever than I
ever seen so far due to the simple fact that we can't vote on a budget. I know we're voting on it like last minute. not being on a timeline, not sticking to something that's important, having things done with um Miss Bloom saying stuff to having those things in place and not doing them and stuff and why
aren't we not following it and doing things to make good change and we still fight or do this or do that or and I have no confidence like I want to like personally I have like a no a vote confidence on some of you guys on this board to be honest and I need we need better results as a community as things
that we need to see better for and I hope moving forward we can see improvements and not just like the same stuff that's been happening for the last 3 4 months with the new board. So that's just my personal perspective that I've been seeing for the last several months and hopefully we can do better.
Thank you, Mr. W. Didn't you want to do a little bit of silence? Oh gosh. Yes. I'm sorry. I don't know how I Okay. We're going to do we're going to pause for a moment. Um I apologize. As I said at the last
meeting, it's it's sometimes difficult to come out from where we were to hear and just like readjust. Um but I did want to do a moment of silence for the young man um who passed in our district yesterday. So I would just like to take a moment of silence to honor and
remember this young life that was tragically lost far too soon at just 10 years old. His passing is a heartbreaking reminder of the fragility of life and the connectedness of a community. As we all feel the pain, let us pause for a moment of silence to honor his memory, offer support to his
family and loved ones, and hold space in our hearts for healing and peace. Thank you, Joseph Bono. Bono. I watch every week. I try and watch every week. But right here is why
elections have consequences. from the state level to down to the local level. King Murphy is pretty much pretty clear. He's cut a lot with uh New Jersey school districts, especially here in Washington
Township. I'm just honestly disgusted with the board, with the state level, everything. Um my biggest grief is technology in schools. I have two young kids, two boys, kindergarten and in second grade, actually at Burchchous Elementary School.
technology just needs to get out of our elementary school. It's ridiculous. I I don't know how much money we could actually save by getting rid of iPads and Google Chromebooks. I don't know why young kids need it at such a young a young age. The amount of money we spend on these devices, the
apps that we have to pay for as a district, get rid of it. Why? Why do we need that waste? That's waste. Even at the middle school level, why do we need this waste? If we're going to have devices in schools, then why do we have teachers? Give the teachers what they
they should have to want to teach. And I I love my teachers that my kids have. We've loved them. They're great. But get rid of it. Save some money. Save some money right there. I wrote a I wrote a lot down. uh
just it just when you get up here, you don't realize what you want to really say or you know what you have written down. But I hear every week these residents come up and they continue to talk about the ethics charges with this person, this board member, and this
board member. And I never hear when it comes down to the actual education of the kids. Let's stop focusing on the board members as much. Let's focus on the kids. I I I'm I'm tired I'm tired of hearing about ethics charges and this and that.
Again, I didn't want to make this a political statement or anything like that, but come November, think before you vote. It's not always about political party. It's about policy as well. If you don't like something, vote.
Vote in November. That's going to be your change. If you don't like the budget here tonight on what they're going to approve, go vote in November. My wife and I, if we had the choice, and it it it it sucks that New Jersey doesn't have school choice, we probably
would remove our kids from the school district at this point. We're just disgusted with what we see every week on these schoolboard meetings and and what's going on in the school district. A lot of it comes down to to technology. I understand today's day and age, it's a
lot different from when I was I went to Washington Township uh school district myself all the way through high school and live here as a resident now. I understand a lot has changed over the course of the 20some years, but it's just ridiculous. Let's let's save a little bit of money. Let's let's give I
hate seeing people lose their jobs. Let's and maybe we can remove some of that and give it back to and we can hire back more people. It's ridiculous that we have we have one teacher one teacher for a 20 to 25 kindergarten
class. My son comes home sometimes a and it's and it gets too distracting. Let's give more staff back. Let's have these kids have a better education. And I'm going to use up all my time because I hear people talk about this ethics crap and I'm just I'm just
honestly sick of it. I'm sick of it. I I let's let's talk more about the kids, the education that we're giving our kids. If you see some of the rankings for some of the other school districts in the area and where we want to live at, honestly, I I don't blame people for not
wanting to move here sometimes. I I would go to another school. I would go to another township. It's just something's got to change. I hope something changes here tonight. Again guys, people watching at home, November, it's not always about
political party. That's what I'm going to leave with here tonight. It's not always about political party. I didn't want to make this a political statement, but vote in November for if you want change, do it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.
Bono. Um, Maria Mayo. Maria Hello. Hi. Um, I'm Maria Mayo and I teach in um, Bugger Hills autism classroom. Um, I come before you not only as a teacher but as an advocate for the most crucial members of our
self-contained classrooms and that is our specialized assistance. Um, these individuals are not just support staff. They are the backbone of our programs. Many of them have years of experience and deeprooted relationships with our students. In fact, I often find myself
turning to them for guidance and insight because they have been in these classrooms longer than I have and bring a wealth of knowledge and understanding that only time and dedication can provide. Whether I have to step step out for a meeting or I'm absent for the day, I never worry that our classroom will
run any differently than it does when I'm there. The consistent consistency and familiar familiarity that they provide helps maintain the structure our students rely on. And that is no small thing in a setting where small changes
can have big, if not huge impacts. They face aggressive and self-injurous behaviors. They assess with toileting, promote independence, and support students with significant learning challenges. And they do all of it with incredible patience, compassion, and love. They show up every day ready to
give their best and not just to teach but to connect and care ways that profoundly impact our students growth and well-being. And they do all of this despite of the constant worry about their own employment. I urge you to consider the value of what might not
always be visible on paper. These assistants are more than just employees. They are the lifelines for our students and anchors in our classrooms. Thank you for your time and consideration and we hope to see continued support for our staff and students. Thank
you, Jennifer Rodrigo. Jennifer Rodrigo. Hello. It's a little hard for me to talk tonight. I am a teacher at Burchches Elementary School. I'm a member of this community. I'm the elementary executive
representative for the WTA. And most importantly, I'm a mom of a 31-year-old child, almost a grandmother, a Bunker Hill Middle School student, and twin fourth graders at Bunker Hill at Burches. I'm a teacher for 30 years, 12
in this district. I am a Burch's fifth grade teacher and I am that little child's teacher. I realize you have to make decisions on a budget and will most likely vote on this budget this evening. But I would
implore you from this moment forward to set aside your differences, your egos, and whatever else is driving your decisions and make them solely about the children. Lead with the children's best
interest at heart. Like every colleague who walked into the doors of Birches today, I witnessed strength and love for children like no other from every colleague in this district. That is all that matters is
the children, not agendas, the children. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Rigo. And um I just want to thank you also, Mrs. Rodrigo, in advance for what you're
going to be have to experience with your students um and the extra care and everything that you're going to have to give them while you're also dealing with this horrible situation. Um Sandy Fitzpatrick, good evening. Um, my name
is Sandy Fitzpatrick. I'm a kindergarten teacher at Burches Elementary. I'm a Washington Township resident of 20 23 years. All three of my children attended Burch's Elementary. Today, I'm honored to be able to teach in the elementary school that helped shape my own children. Some of you up there have
taught my kids the best teachers. Um, some of you up there have been the best coach to my children. Um, and um, you know, you have helped my children. Um, it takes a village. I'm sorry. I'm like
super nervous to talk and just unless you're five or six. Um, I'm so grateful to have you all as part of my village helping raise my children with me. You know how grateful we are. Our children mean the world to us and we want what's best for them. That's why I'm here
tonight. It's to speak up for someone who truly is best for our children, and that's our Burch's principal, Julie Larubio. Like all non-tenured staff, Julie received a non-renew renewal letter last week. In a time where negativity feels loud, I want to speak
louder with positivity and gratitude for Julie. Because what we have in Mrs. Lurio is rare. She's not just a principal. She is best for kids. She's a gift to Burches and to this entire school district. When I transferred from Grenlock to Burches, Julie became my
third principal. Within those three years I was at Birches. My principles were totally awesome, but the constant turnover left us unsettled. Julie brought the stability we needed along with her strong, compassionate leadership. Julie helps me grow as a teacher and as a person. She encourages
me, challenges me. She shows me what outstanding leadership looks like. Let me tell you about the kind of principal Julie Larubio is. When you walk into her office, you will probably see a big halffinish puzzle spread out on the table. And it's not a decoration. It's a
doorway to connection. Julie sits there with our students who need extra support, talking, listening, building trust and connection, one puzzle piece at a time. She greets every child by name, ties shoes, asks about their weekends. She makes sure every single student feels seen and welcome. Because
to Julie, they're not just her students, they're her kids. Each morning, she pops into classrooms with a smile. She's always available to us. She listens. She supports. She shows up with love every single day. Julie brings out the best in her staff so we can give our best, our
students. Julie doesn't lead from an office. She leads from our halls, classrooms, the cafeteria, and our playground. She rolls up her sleeves. She covers classes when when needed. She even assists with our multiple disabilities class when our staffing is low. Julie's at every single school
event, cheering our students on, connecting with families and staff. And beyond our school walls, Julie keeps showing up. I've stood beside her on a Saturday morning on a football field, cheering for our Burch's students. She volunteers monthly at our food bank. She advocates tirelessly for families,
giving them the support and and resources that families in need deserve. And I was even lucky enough to be by her side on Thanksgiving Day when we were all home, but we weren't. We were delivering a warm home-cooked meal to a family in need in this town. And that's
the kind of principle she is. She understands that when families are cared for, kids can thrive. In my classroom, I tell my kindergarters that mistakes are how we learned. And while we understand the why behind those non-renewal letters, we need to recognize the message it sends. When someone like
Julie, who's absolutely best for our kids, receives that message, it says to her, "You're not valued." When in truth, we do value her. We are so lucky to have her. We need to do better. Every single morning, Julie ends the announcements with, "Make it a great day or not. The
choice is yours." So, I say tonight, please make this a great district or not. The choice is yours. We're all here for the same reason. It's the kids. Whatever your differences may be, please take a deep breath. set them aside, focus on our kids. We need to learn from
our mistakes and do what's best for our children and our families and our future. We need to make choices that respect, honor, and hold tight to the amazing people who are best for our kids and the people that lift us up because Julie Rubio is one of them. Thank you.
Um Sandy, thank you for saying that, Sandy. just because we love hearing wonderful things about but I about our staff but um I just want to be completely clear that the notices that went out was just a function of the fact that we didn't have a budget and at no
point in time was it ever discussed that such a wonderful person would ever not come back like that I I feel like I can say that um she has compelled discussion of her to public so I can say that that that was that it was just because we didn't have a budget so
you know I just don't want anyone thinking that that was ever considered at all. Um, thank you Nicole Lenudi. I just have one question. Um, I just wanted to know if anybody attempted to contact the county, the
state, or anybody that you needed to contact this morning to try to ask for an extension deadline to not have to have this meeting tonight. You me you may have. I'm just curious to know if if that happened. Um, there's so many
people here and there's so many emotions for so many different reasons and everybody deserves to be here and be heard. It's just not fair to do it today. Um I also
um I know you guys are approving a superintendent tonight or you on the budget on the agenda. $750 a day at $20 an hour can save six and a half of our support staff.
Thank you. Um, Tom Baldisaro. I I really hope that you guys are all listening to every comment tonight has been about the kids. You can't say the same thing about the actions on this board. You are not
focusing on kids. When you did your preliminary budget, you did not have the agreement to extend a contract in there. You decided to raise taxes significantly to pay for something that
would commit this district to being 1500% above state averages for 5 years. How is that thinking about our kids? You know, I This isn't about outsourcing. You don't want to outsource. I'm used to sitting with unions and saying, "Hey, we
got this delta. Let's figure it out. How do we do it?" We can't be above state average like that, guys. We can't because you're taking away money. Miss Lenudi just talked what, six and a half positions for about $200,000. How many could you save with a million
dollars a year? We cut, was it 31 and a half in the budget you presented last week? Either 30 and a half or 31 and a half certificated staff. How many could you save with $5 million over the next five years? You are not putting education
first if you approve a budget that has that in there. You're not. And if you think you are, I want to I would love to hear an explanation why. When people voted down the tax increase, everybody who voted no explained why
they voted no. Not one person who voted yes said why. Why it's okay. Why are we approving 7 and a2% total almost when we have no plan on how we're going to move forward on how we're going to put the student first. You've not explained any
of that. None. So, I hope you don't approve a budget tonight because I think the state needs to get involved because of all this stuff you guys can't do and work together because you aren't putting the kids first right now. You're not. And everybody that's come up here,
that's all they want. But you don't look at it that way. You haven't acted that way. And you can't explain to me or anybody how that's okay. Why are we willing to say over the next 5 years we can put 5 million above what the state
average does when we could put that to direct education? Wouldn't that be a better use of our money? Again, nobody responds to me when I sit down. Nobody. Tell me I'm wrong. Have have the courage to say, Tom, no. $5 million to to take and take it away
from our kids is the right thing for us to do. And tell me why. Because I will say we we need to put as much money to our kids as we can. And we need to figure the rest out. So, you know, please let somebody else come in. If you guys can't do it, if you
can't focus on the kids, you know, when you when you have everything being a 54 vote, that's a problem. Guys, one of the first things, Miss Gazemple, you said when you took over was, "We have a problem with, you know, the five four." You haven't done one thing to fix it.
Nothing. You have a negotiations committee. You could have four people on it. You put the three people you wanted on it. There's a four spot. How come you didn't put Scott or Carol or somebody else? Why not? Because they weren't going to follow the agenda. Okay? Why didn't you split it up
anyway? Why not? Why have why not have two of your people and two other people? You didn't do that. Everybody who's in charge of a committee is somebody who is aligned with you. That's a fact. How you do that as a leader, you have to recognize that and you split it up. You
make it at least appear that you want to work together. That hasn't happened at all. you want to put $200,000 to an interim super if you you know if you go for a full year we have a super here let him do his job and you want to investigate
fine do that now a question I asked at the end of the last meeting in relation to the doctrine of necessity are you said we didn't invoke it at the end of the meeting because you only you only uh engaged conflict counsel so what are we
doing with Dr. Hibbs to either terminate him or to bring him back because I have not heard you vote on investigating Dr. Hibbs. I believe you have to you have to vote to investigate. If you are using the conflict council to investigate Dr.
Hibbs, people who are conflicted for Dr. Hibbs voted. So that's a problem, too. The risks that we keep adding on to this district are ultimately going to take more money away from these kids. So please just focus on the kids. Mr. Balisaro,
um I am going to respond. You you you continuously put words in our mouth as to what we think and what we do. This board has built consensus several times in meetings and you don't know about that because you're not on the board. We have to have a lot of conversations
about personnel. Our resources are human and nobody here, especially those of us who have kids in the school. I have a rising high school student. Steve has a child that's in first grade. She still has 12 more years to go through school. Linda has a child in the high school.
Carol has a child going into the high school. So, I don't even understand why someone would believe the logic that we don't care about what's happening in the schools when our kids attend the school. Tangential to that, I also care about teachers very much and support staff and
anybody who has I'm talking for myself personally, not the board. Anybody who leases with my child during the day, those people are important to me. It's important to me to keep them happy. And every decision that I make on this board and everyone here, whether they like it
or not, knows that I say, "Does this affect the day-to-day of a child?" And if it doesn't, I'm good with it. because you have to remove your feelings from these decisions, especially when they're financial, which as a numbers guy, I would hope you would understand. Second, I have some numbers.
$25,000 to a conflict attorney to try and conflict me out from being the board president. $5,000 for Baldesaro versus Srano. $5,000 for Hartang and Chilla versus Baker. $5,000 for Baldesaro versus Kazmple. $5,000 for NJA versus
Hibsenchilla. $5,000 for Bisaro versus the WTBOE. Another $5,000 for Basaro versus the WTBOE. And $5,000 for Randy Ford versus the WTBOE. This is $70,000 in insurance payments that we
have to pay. And your name is on four, excuse me, five of them. Ron Lucarini. But I'm corrupt. Well, you wouldn't have to pay him if you acted properly in the first place. Okay. I totally disagree with the
gentleman that was up here earlier. I do agree with him with on the uh computers and the technology uh down in the elementary schools. It is a little too much. But I want them to understand that um and and I was a
teacher in this district for 39 years that politics uh and political motivations of board members closely associated with political parties in this town. Uh when
they affect the school board, you have ethical dilemmas that arise. All right? And you can't let him go because politics does affect education. Uh it's amazing that people are coming up here and talking about the rankings. I think
it was that gentleman, the rankings of the school system very, you know, not what they should be based on our socioeconomic background and our demography and the demographics and the whole whole nine yards. And and there's a reason for that. The reason is we are
too busy playing games behind closed doors. Mrs. Comple wants to draw this picture that oh it's all Mr. Bald Arrow's fault now because he filed these uh ethics complaints. Okay, let me tell you something. If he didn't file these ethics complaints and other people
didn't and and didn't watch this board of education with her running things, you'd have a real You think you have a circus now? You'd have really have a circus. just go back to her last tenure as board president when she was making deals to become and that was part of an
ethics complaint as well to pick the next superintendent before the other superintendent had even retired or announced his retirement. Um, I'm going to talk as just a resident watching the last couple years. Uh, what the guy at home, there's a lot of people here who
have vested interest in a lot of this stuff, but what are the people at home, you know, that's the real audience. All right. What do they see? Well, let's go back a year. I'm not even going to go back to Comple and her and her nonsense when she was the board president the
first time. $7 million dollars supposedly Dr. Hibbs was hiding last year that I heard this from residents. I heard this from teachers. He's there's 7 million missing there. Okay, listen. I have no love for Hibs one way or the other. I could care less. But if you
were going to say 7 million's missing, you got to find it. Okay. Nowhere did it ever show up. And now we speed forward to this year. Okay. And Dr. Hibbs warned everyone. He warned everyone that if we
didn't do what we needed to do to tighten our belts last year and they all came up screaming and yelling that we were going to have a problem. And now we have the problem. All right. So what do we do? We get rid of Hibs because he told us the truth. All right. And we
don't know where that seven mill that 7 million if that was around we wouldn't have the problem we have today. Then Connie Baker supposedly negotiates a contract with the support staff for 5 years at 5%. Okay, that is and listen, I'm a union
guy. All right, but you can't that that's what we're that's the rumor out there. Okay, and it hasn't been announced because it's all part of this budget. All right. Um then you get uh you know the letters from Mrs. director
about what's going on on the board of education behind closed doors and the pressure. You get a guy like Jack McGee who is the consmate ultimate company man. All right, he couldn't take it. He resigns in seven days. And you're going to try to tell us Mrs. Comple that it
was all because he had a medical situation. You know, the conflicting stories behind the scenes are ridiculous. And you're going to sit here and try to tell us that this has no effect on the education and the ranking of the school system, the low test
scores, the nonsense that you are always involved in. This lawyer who conflicts Mrs. She didn't talk about that part. Why does Mrs. uh Chilla have a conflict uh you know whatever complaint? because
he conflicts her based on a letter sent by Tarashi and uh Scardino, who by the way also resigned from the Washington Township Education Association. I'm sure we'll get Miss Julie's spin on that one. All right. But because of the ethics
that were going on behind closed doors, okay, so now you have the situation where you have uh Mrs. Chilllet's got to react to that. Okay, so she reacts. Uh it's a disgrace. You get rumors about a board member. Thank you, Mr. Lucarini.
No, I won't finish. Sitting in a scream five minutes, Mr. Lucarini, yelling racial slurs. You're out of order. And Mrs. Cole says it's no big deal. Safety officer in here. Okay. Uh, can I have a motion to close to the public? Don't
respond to any. He already spoke. Yeah. Can I have a motion to close to the public? Motion to close. Second. Yeah. The next session. Second. Second. Bye, Julie. All in favor? I
I'm sorry. I'm just I am just going to say something. Because of things like that, my children have actually asked that Mr. Srano is sitting next to me because he's a Marine. So, that's where I'm living right now. That's what I'm living in. Um because I'm sitting up here like a like a prone whatever. Anyway, um to
talk about kids for a second, I was at a meeting last night with um it was at the county um schoolboards association meeting and there was a woman who got up to speak. She teaches in Hadenfield and what she said she was like I think she was the she was the county teacher of the year and what she talked about was
that there are students that are illiterate at the high school level that have not learned how to properly read and she said it's very um heartbreaking to sit with high school students and spell out cat and literally teach them how to read but they can't and it's because the type of reading skills that
they had been learning you know didn't really this called them recall but not really reading and so after the meeting I'm like I just want to pick your brain for a little bit, you know, how how did this happen? Like, how did you get started with this? And she said, "We got sued. We got sued by um a student who
went to, you know, graduated and did not know how to read." And so now they have all these really great reading interventions and things like that that they're doing. That's the type of stuff we should be talking about. I'm so sorry. I don't know what's wrong with this mic, but that's the type of stuff we should be talking about and trying to implement. And because I think that that
I think that that's the case with quite a lot of kids. And it might not necessarily be the fault of of anyone. It's just reading has changed over the years and things like that. So these are the conversations that we want to be having. Um that I want to be having and I know a lot of other people have
brought things up too. And so anyway, just look into that because I thought I'm looking into that. That was very interesting. Okay. Just before you go on, I have a concern. I'm not on the budget um the negotiating committee and I know Linda's not either and we've
talked a little bit. We're very concerned that the figures for this settlement have come out. Yeah. That there's a percentage there's a number of years and I'd like to know who knew that information. How did it get released? I don't know because I mean I'm conflicted
too. It was nothing nothing was out there and then I think you eventually had to share with the full board the MOA, right? No, I've never And then suddenly it was I never heard anything about it. The MOA has not been presented to the full board yet. That's not accurate. What was it
that um people were asking Connie for something and for the budget and she had to provide it. I can't remember what it was. It had something to do with negotiations. I can't listen to any of those conversations because I'm obviously NJI. So I believe the board members were
given information about negotiations. I wasn't. No. No. People that were conflicted. You're conflicted. I'm conflicted. So I don't know. Even as closer to your mic, Connie, it shouldn't be out in the public. You know, I'm I'm just wondering uh there have been documents that have
been leaked uh to the leaked out things, you know, confidential information executive. Is there something that can be done that would be able to curtail that? Like for instance, if if you get a
document, is there some something on the document that we would be able to trace if the person was sharing it? That's why everything that you got tonight is watermarked with your initials. We We have to do that now. I told I asked Janine, you know, if people want confidential information, they're going
to have to get it in hard copy. Um, watermarked. So, you can't someone can't say this got dropped off on my porch, which has been happening. So, that's one way. Can we get back to the MOA question? Also, like, yeah, let's And also, I just want to say two things real quickly. Um, we
are not approving an interim acting superintendent tonight. Um, we're going to put that on the agenda for the 13th. So, that's not happening tonight. Um, and the other thing, oh, Mr. Bono, we only have one public comment section for a special meeting. So, um, I just wanted
to respond. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I just wanted to let you know in case you're waiting. I I can't call your other card. Go ahead, Linda. Can we So, I found out about the MOA through Facebook, which is kind of crappy considering I'm on the board, but um, and again, I'm conflicted. know
whatever. But that MOA is on our tax levy. That's just disturbing a little bit because that's a commitment. So do we don't we I just real quickly I
don't think we're allowed to talk about the MOA. It's not ratified. So once it's ratified, so once it's ratified, then it comes to us and but how could we things and number one, hold, the question wasn't related to the specifics of theou. The
question was related to the leaking of theou, which I don't think anybody here on this day has any idea how theou got leaked out. Obviously, if a board member is leaking confidential information, that's an ethics concern. um if it's being leaked by someone else. I mean, I
I don't know how to police that, frankly. I mean, I I can't monitor or you can't monitor who has what information, how they got it, and when they shared it. Um but to Carol's point, you're not going to get into the specifics of the I don't think you're asking to do that anyway. I'm just saying I just think we have to be careful. It's not ratified. When it's
ratified by your correct me if I'm wrong, when it's ratified by your union, I'd rather just not talk about this right now if that's okay. we hear about from the We don't need any more unfair labor practices. We don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about any negotiations, you guys. We cannot afford another unfair labor shouldn't be
allowed to be spoken about. This is about the budget. Thank you. How are we supposed to vote on a budget that has something on there that's not even apparently ratified and no one seems to know about? That's like that seems budgets
are voted on and approved all the time while contracts are outstanding. It's the the time worked into the budget. I I understand and I I could let Janine speak to what's actually worked into this budget. I I think it is worked into this budget, but I I don't want to speak for Janine obviously, but that because
of the timing, most contracts be resolved by the end of the school year and obviously in May budgets due obviously budgets are voted are voted on at times when contracts are being negotiated or ratified. So it happens
every year. Okay, there you go. All right. I I'd like to put a motion on the floor. Wait, can Janine answer? I just wanted just real quick. Um, we did talk about um being allowed to to discuss from the MOA standpoint simply
the dollar impact that would affect the budget, a budget line item. Uh, we were allowed to talk about the dollar amount and the specific line items specifically for the 2526 budget which we talked about in in committees. Yeah, that's accurate. Did I say that right? Yeah,
that's correct. Where are we in the agenda? A little in finance and facilities. We're having our budget discussion. All right. I I'd like to place a motion on the floor. I consulted the
administration several times, each administration several times, and I feel that there wasn't enough cuts made to central administration. So, I'd like to place a motion on the floor to riff the following
positions. Director data assessment and technology, director of counseling services, director of buildings and grounds, director of human resources for a total approximate savings of over half a million dollars. That doesn't include
who will bump who. I know that there is some bumping with two of those positions as well as the benefits that those individuals receive. Uh that's not calculated into this number. So that's my motion.
Is that I need a second and then we can have discussion. Second. Okay. Discussion keeping in mind not all the employees have compelled this discussion to public. So yeah, go ahead. I got a couple things to say. All right.
First, I think you're on really shaky ground trying to cut at the deis. Um, the requirement for that is that it's in consultation with the superintendent. Um, I know you're saying you have had conversations and I'll take
you with you at your word, but I hope you get some documentation on that and some witnesses to back it up. That's point one. Point two, been four superintendent, right? either current superintendents or acting superintendents within the last few
months, not one of them supported the position cuts that you're going to make here, right? They all have probably combined close to 100 years of experience in education.
I myself am not qualified to make a determination of whether those cuts would be harmful to the district or not, but I certainly would take the word of Jack McGee of others that have been in that uh seat that did not support them. Uh and I think everybody else here
except one who's been in a superintendent position, I don't think any of you are qualified to make that decision either. So, thanks Scott. I appreciate it. So, what I'm going to do, I I would like to ask Ralph, you're the only one with superintendent experience here. I'd like
to know your opinion and I'd like to know without you trying to administer the district because that'll come up to just suggestions. Well, I'm I'm reluctant now and I've been reluctant to speak having been a vice principal,
principal, assistant superintendent, superintendent for a long long period of time. Stephen, talk to me about this and and I don't want to administer and say where those positions could be uh uh given those those uh work experiences, but uh
having looked at these, I think they can be taken into consideration from uh other administrators that are in the district. Now, I don't want to I don't want to speculate where uh these jobs will be delegated to, but I can tell you from experience that I
think they can be delegated to the administration. We could save the money and the money that we were saving, we probably would be able to keep a lot of the uh aids that might be um on the chopping block, so to speak. And uh everyone that got up here said they were
were worried about kids. Well, that's where we need the uh the sources, the resources working with the kids. So, again, like I said, haven't been a superintendent. I think that they can be absorbed in uh other areas. Ralph, I respect your years of
experience and and where you've been. My only thing is you haven't been working in here and I don't think you have enough information on the details, who has what responsibility or anything like that. And you know, I think that's critical when you're making this decision. So that's why that's why I
didn't want to comment where these would be delegated to. I mean, if I sat down with the superintendent, I could tell my feelings about it and where I would do it if I was the superintendent. I I believe that we're asking what we're
doing in this budget, we're asking support staff to do more with less. We're asking teachers to do more with less. who are asking supervisors, frontline supervisors to do more with less. All of which those individuals get
paid less money than the salaries at central administration. So what I'm asking central administration to do is more with less. I have a question. Sorry, we you can't yell you can't yell from the back. You can't yell from the
back. You can't do that. Um I just have a really quick comment. We did have this discussion um in the budget. There are all of these cuts already and these people are already doing overtime
working hours that if you look into the hours that they do put in rather than putting on the backs of other administrators who are working really hard. We had this discussion. So, I I understand your reasoning and I do feel we need money more for the children, but
I think there's got to be another way to do it than cutting the head off of a body. And when you cut the head off of the body, then the body is going to die. Well, I'm I'm not suggesting that we cut the head off. What I'm suggesting is that we make the head a little bit smaller.
Also, also, we're talking about Hold on, Ralph. We're talking about positions. Keep in mind, there was several people who came up here and talked about children. these positions are furthest removed from children. I don't think uh in addition
to that, I think that the board's receptive to hiring help to help some of these people at a lesser salary and maybe without benefits. So, we're not trying to to say that they're going to do it alone. I don't think the board is opposed to to hiring some uh individuals
that are certified to uh uh to help these people with a much lesser salary. Ralph, I think what one one thing I was going to say, which I think is what you're you might be trying to say is that none of this is about the people. We don't nobody wants to let go of people. This has to do with positions
and these are very hard decisions to make in terms of salary and stuff like that. Any other discussion? Scott, no. Can we talk about other budget things here? We have to vote on this motion first. Yeah. But after that, it's okay.
Yeah. Um, so you make it sound like there haven't been any cuts. There are cuts in the proposed budget within administration, several of them. Um, so I think that's you have to consider that and the impact of those cuts. And some of the areas where you're proposing
cuts, there's been cuts already to other positions in those areas and I think you're putting the district in a really dangerous place. The other thing is I know you're looking for money to save things. I just find it very crazy that we won't look to an area where we could save potentially $5 million over the
next 5 years, right? That's already been laid out and we're not even looking at that. But we're going to take out some of these critical positions that can get us into compliance issues, lawsuits, and all that other stuff. And you're not considering the totality of the cuts already made in the administrative area. What's the area that you want us to look
at? Sounds like I made a motion about it last last meeting. And if you go back and look, I think we're 1,500% over in the area of food service. We're doing a disservice to not look at that. I said we should put it into the business
committee. And you know, if you're looking for an area, maybe discuss that quicker, but that's an area where we know we're way out of whack. When you look at administration, we're not out of whack. The percentage of salary that we spend on administration compared to other districts in the state of New Jersey, we are on the lower side of
that. So you're looking in the wrong area in my opinion. Scott, what's your thought? Start privatizing the cafeteria, then you go to aids, then you go to maintenance and custodians. No, I'm not I'm not going to talk about privatization because that's not something I think we can discuss right
now. I think it's an area that we need to look at. I mean, there's more ways of cutting costs within foods than just privatization. It starts with a conversation. We're not even willing to have the conversation. Well, Scott, I I would just like to make a general comment about leadership.
um when people don't want you know like when we're we've been asking for information for a long time you know since January and Janine's been providing that for whatever reason everyone on here has you know has different reasons why they voted no for the budget but absent any
leadership we have to decide I mean the buck stops with us and so that's something that has been making me very uncomfortable lately because every time I'm asked a question about what should we do about this what should we do about that? And I answer the question, you
know, it's it's discussed in the public and stuff like that, which I really don't I don't care about that. I don't think Facebook is real, but absent leadership, we we are the leaders. Like, we need to, you know, you know, ask questions and have those conversations. So, if there were more conversations
that needed to be had, we needed to request that. I think we did. Um, I'll just jump in real quick. So I I think to me the most concerning part of Steve your proposed cuts is that we have no idea who's taking on
those responsibilities. We were just in the back room and if anyone saw it which they didn't it was I felt at times like do you want an Italian hogi or do you want turkey like what are we doing? Like it was very to me um not well thought out in terms of where do those
responsibility goes. We can debate um who should we cut, who shouldn't we, we can even debate and talk about um data that I asked for and when I was no longer on negotiations, I asked to do data to see market data of salaries like
if and I don't know again what's all being negotiated, but are we really doing a disservice currently right now to what we're paying to the assistance? Like we don't have that data. So, whatever was negotiated, is that even good enough? I don't know. Cuz I asked
for that data and I said, I really want to do some salary benchmarking. What does it look like? Can we get that data? I never had a chance to sit back on the committee to get the data, but that's I think really important. you know, we're we're talking about and I I think I've
said it a few times in the meetings, you know, in terms of salaries of, you know, assistants that work with a really difficult population in some of these classrooms. Like, are we really are they getting offered the right salary? I don't know that, right? So, we can look at a million different things and say,
did we look at the data? I don't think we did. Unless I'm mistaken, I'm not sure. I don't think we did. So to me that parlays into these other conversations of the director of HR, the director of counseling, right, which handles 504s.
And I I it's to me, we just don't have a good handle on where are those responsibilities going. That's where my concern is. There was no plan that was laid out that said I mean I looked at one of the job descriptions, particularly the director of HR, and I think there was like 46 responsibilities. I just want to know
where they're going. You want me to vote on something that I have no idea who's going to take that over? The director of counseling, several responsibilities, all of them. I just don't know where they're going, right? And then we're going to have to pay others an increased salary to take it on because there's no
way that they're just going to say the goodness of my heart, I'm just going to do it, right? And what is that salary going to be? What is that negotiation look like? So to me, it's just I can appreciate the spirit of wanting to do cuts to save others. I can appreciate
that. It's just that I don't think enough due diligence was done to realize where those responsibilities are going. Which is why I forget what number, superintendent, we're on at this point. None of them agreed to those cuts because the discussion was that they
didn't know where to put them at this point because there was administrative cuts last year and this year already in the budget. So, I just think that I just want to know where they're going. As a I'm just as a teacher, teachers and and staff are constantly asked to do things that are not in their role and to take
things on. I'm just I'm just saying this is this is the the same argument that's being made to keep these individuals is the same argument I'm making in the reverse to keep those who are closest to children. You don't have to get upset. I'm not getting upset. I'm getting passionate. Look, I agree with you.
Teachers are asked to do way more than what they're paid for with way less. I will not disagree that at all. That is not the point I'm making. I just talked about the support staff. Do do they we don't have the data to say are we really is that the right salary that we negotiated? I don't know. I have no idea
because we don't have the data. Just like teachers, I don't know. When we look at their contract, are we going to go out and look at data? I mean, I don't know. Like I I I'm saying to you, I am not making a statement. I am not making a statement to say that teachers don't
go outside their responsibilities. That's false. They do it every single day. Every single day. I mean, Burgess is a great example, right? I'm sure everyone was doing a lot of things on not only today, but every day. I won't argue that. I'm just saying in this
specific motion that Steve made, I don't know where these responsibilities are going. And some of them will cause legal liability because we have no idea where they're going. If you point it to a person, tell me this person's going to take on all of these roles. That's
great. Let me let me let me look at it. We don't know that. Yeah. Pat, did you want to I think what you're seeing is a failure of the budget system in Washington Township. This is my second year to be working on budgets. We know do not meet as a whole
group. I know that that's harder to do it that way, but when you want the answers to all this, we should have been sitting around as a whole group the last two months and tried to figure out where we were going to get money, what we
value. Now, we're doing it at the 11th hour. And this isn't fair to anybody out there that we're doing it this way. And it's the second year I've been on the board and it's the second year it's been done this way. Madame President, I'd like to call the question, please. Thank
you. Wait, what was the what? I'd like to call the question. Making a motion to call. Okay. He wants to end the discussion. He wants that means he wants to end the discussion and roll call. We'll take a vote. So, uh, roll call, please.
Second. Oh, call the question. Okay. Can I have a second on that? Ralph. Okay. Roll call, please. Also, I'm hearing there's a card that I didn't get or something. One on the top of the day, but I don't know if it's that person. I don't know. I already closed
to the public, so I didn't get a card. I don't know who I to me. Okay. Let's um finish our voting. If I didn't I don't know. Just can I'd like to call
the question. Roll call. Lori right now come. We don't have to do that for a special meeting. Please stop yelling from the back of the room. Mr. Ross. Yes. Wait. Why are we starting with Ralph?
We start with I'm Yes. Okay. Is this is this for ending the discussion? This is for ending the discussion. This is for ending the discussion. No, this is to take a poll. This is this is taking a vote on the motion. Ari already said no, this is Steve's motion to call the
question and then you have to actually take a vote. Okay. This is Steve's motion to call the question. So, we have to roll call that. Yes. Okay. This is just to stop discussion and vote. Do you want to stop discussion and vote? Yes or no? That's what this is.
Yes or no? Yes. Ra said yes. Okay. Mrs. Baker. Yes. Mr. or Mrs. Bloom? Yes. Mrs. Clancy. I'm sorry. We're stopping the discussion or are we voting? Stopping the You're You're saying yes or no. Are you ready
to move on to vote? Yes. Do you want to stop discussing it and vote or no? I'll stop discussing it, but I'm going to add information to when I vote. Okay. But you have to say yes or no. No.
Okay. Mrs. Chello, no. Mrs. Harong, no. Mr. Liberty, no. Mr. Serrano, yes. Miss Kazmple, yes. Three back. Five. One, two, three, four. Five to four.
Now we're voting on his original motion to cut these positions. I'm just waiting on Lori. Yeah. Roll call. Mrs. Baker. Yes. Mrs. Blue. Director of HR? No. Data technician? No.
Buildings and grounds? Yes. Counseling? Yes. Can we do that? Can we break it up? Yes, of course. Okay. Mrs. Clancy, director of HR. No. Director of data
assessments and technology. No. and director of counseling. No. Building and grounds. Yes. Mrs. Chilla, I'm going to qualify my vote because I can. Um, again, if we had
the responsibilities that we knew where they were going, it would maybe be a consideration. We don't. So, I'm a no to all. Mrs. Hartung. No. Mr. Liberty.
Following the advice of our last four acting superintendent. No. Mr. Serrano. Yes. Mr. Ross. Yes. Miss Kazmple. Yes. So, I got four alls.
Oh, I don't know if it carries. Looks like buildings and grounds and guidance or buildings and grounds of guidance. Buildings and grounds and guidance. I think whatever pad go for no idea. What? I'm sorry. Order, please.
Lori, what what carried Lori? Uh, buildings and grounds will be eliminated from the budget. The super uh and council, right? The uh I don't know the exact title. Just what did Pat what did Pat vote?
What was your vote again? I voted um no to HR. no to data and I voted yes to counseling and yes to building and and grounds. So counseling pass counseling and buildings and grounds. Okay. Okay. Um next topic.
Anyone have any other you need to state the results. What do you mean to the public? Oh that's what Lori just is said. What was the vote? What was the final? She's making sure she's going to speak to it. No one listens to no one listening to me.
Can I say that in this question? That doesn't matter. No one's going to listen to me anyway. We're counting still. Yeah. BNG and counseling. We're cut director. Sorry. director of school
counseling services and student personnel and director of buildings and grounds. The positions were cut. Can I just make a really quick comment? We're not cutting counseling. Nicole, okay, just a real quick comment in lie of what's going on, what's happened
yesterday, what's going on with our students, the direct the director of counseling being cut, that person's in charge of all of the schools, all of the counselors, the testing. Um, just a quick comment
Hey, are there any other budget discussions before or suggestions before we dis Well, is there anything else actually because we're not voting on the budget tonight. We're just we're voting on it on the 13th. So, I guess we're still in discussion. I just I just wanted to add this effective 6:30 2025.
So, we still got a couple more months. And please clarify. All right. Any any other discussion? Ari clarify the budget process that Julie just uh referenced. So tonight is essentially an extension of the public
hearing. Today is the last day that a district can do that. Between the 7th and the 13th is a grace period where the district could revide revise the budget based off of items discussed tonight. So the key is based off of items discussed tonight. In other words, if the board
brings ideas to the table related to the budget and agrees, Janine can make those changes and the board could vote on it on the 13th. So, when Julie said, "We're not going to vote on the budget tonight." It's it's not quite that simple. And this was all done in consultation between Janine, myself, the county soup, and the county BA. So,
again, there's still discussion to be had so the board can get to a budget that they ultimately could pass. I think the budget will likely be voted on on the 13th, though, just to be clear. Thank you. discuss.
I have one item of discussion. Um, you guys are done with the budget discussion. Yeah. But but I assumed your comment is about the budget since it's what the special meeting is, right? Item E. We on the item E. Item discussion. Yeah. Yeah. But it's just
the special meeting is only for the purposes of budget. So that's why Ari's asking. Are saying are we done talking about the budget? I'm asking if you're done talking about the budget. That that's my go to Eve. You're not Is whatever you're about to say budget related.
Indirectly, yes. Okay. Well, then let's do just things directly related first. Go ahead. I'm sorry. My thing one thing I am concerned about is we are once again cutting health aids. I'm concerned that that's not a safety thing for our
students. When you talk about your students, you Yes. I am concerned that there is a cut for for all of the assistants in the nurse's office health assistance and I'd like to see where we
can find the money to fix that. I'm also concerned that we're cutting benefits for people who have been here for 20 plus years or more so 15 plus years. I know we have to start cutting and I know
that maybe we can't have benefits be part of new hires, but I just don't see how we can at least look at that and see what it would cost. These are questions that there's a few others that I've been
asking since we were off that week um for spring break. Again, we haven't met. So, I sent questions to administration. I got no answers. I have a whole thing here of emails. None of them were
answered. So, here we are. What's the date? And we're sitting here still with no answers. Can Can anyone address that? The um health aids that we were that we were cons maybe you know I asked for the
amount. I don't know just the amount. We we talked about the amounts in detail in budget meetings. They were all on slides, but I can certainly Is that something that we do in public or talk about all this new stuff that's coming up and what the dollar amounts are new?
So any budget related stuff that doesn't apply to specific employees, yes, you could talk about it in public. Now, I know everyone was rised and I know many people compelled discussions to public. So, if we're talking about specific cost to specific personnel that have compelled discussions to public, then that will be done in public. If it's
specific cost to specific personnel that haven't compelled it to public, someone needs to make a motion to go back into executive to have that discussion. I think we need to do that here. Here's my problem with that just real quick. We did discuss things in small groups, but if I talked about, let's say I didn't
want to cut X, and you might think, oh, oh, yes, we should cut X. But once you listen to me and we had a discussion with all nine people, not three people, it might not have been that, well, this group wasn't interested or this group wasn't interested. If we had all talked
together like we are tonight again last minute, maybe some of these things would not have been cut. Maybe we would have found the money for them. That's a big concern I have. I Joel Yeah. Uh just to
kind of piggyback what Pat is saying, I know in a meeting that I attended, there was a concern that certain assistants and food service workers, no matter how many years they had in the district, they're going to have hours cut to lose
their benefits. That was a concern in our committee. when it kind of when it got to the final end when I asked about it, it was well the consensus of the group was people weren't interested in that. So I think kind of what Pat is saying is the fact
that we were in small groups and not every group heard what everybody else had to say. So currently right now there are certain assistants that will get benefits above a certain number of years, eight years and then there are people that
not by position. It's by position. It's positions. You can't necessarily say 100% certain what the years are. It was it was by positions. A certain number of positions. Well, is it to clarify certain positions, then we
should go back into executive session. I I don't know where you're going with this, though. Okay. Well, I I I I because we can bring up tonight things that we want to look at and try to bring back and where in the line items might might it exist. I give you an example.
Last year when we did the budget, we had no idea and the line item was over 300,000 380,000 for new furniture in every building, a classroom in every building of the 22nd century. We didn't know that. Probably if we knew that, we
would have said, "Wait a minute, that's great, but we need to put that on hold. People are losing their jobs." There was another situation where I questioned there was a person that was going around talking to all the secretaries about what they do. We hire
it was like a consultant or something. Never got a report. It was in the budget. It was under a certain amount, but that went on. So there's thing there's things in the line item that the board may agree on these line items and embedded in the line items are
certain things that we're not aware of. There's a lot of line items. You know remember now we had a 2hour presentation before the tenative budget and then you know when the tenative budget was voted on it was voted down and then was voted
down again. we haven't had the kind of information about this budget that we should have and that's what Pat is trying to say that and and I have asked numerous questions. Okay, trying to think about what can we at least do for
people who have been here at least 20 years and above to get their benefits. They they were here knowing that they're going to get benefits in retirement, their health benefits in retirement. Maybe they're here 23 24 years just going to be wiped out in one one one full swoop just like that. So I want to
say here we need to look at these line items and how can we at least for our employees that have been here 20 or more years retain their benefits. probably what's going to happen and and this is the thing that's really
disturbing that we're going to have more and more people just going to leave and these people are directly involved with our kids on a daily basis. They're they have an important job just like the teacher that came up and talked about the person that she works with. People are going to say I'll go to
Wawwa right there just tells you they the kind of money you can make there. We we depend on on this support staff to be a resource to our kids and our teachers. It's the people at the bottom that are really important. Yeah. I'm just I'm just I just want to clarify
um that the line item budget was given the second it was available on New Jersey home room. It was available in multiple committee meetings. The board has received the line item budget, meaning every single detail, not just
line items with dollar amounts, but every single item that's being purchased, this board has had it. We scheduled meetings that no one attended and has circulated multiple information. I have no problem sitting here and talking about, you know, who wants what
and providing details, but that's what we've been trying to do for months. And I'm not going to let anyone accuse me of not answering questions or providing information. Well, hopefully in those line items, maybe we could look at some money to retain these benefits. We had a special
meeting just for you and two other members to come in and go over the line item budget during the day. And you did give it to us, but I don't know how I don't know how to read it. I felt like and I offered multiple times any person could call me day or night,
stop into my office. Again, you had the information you could have taken home and reviewed, come in and talk to me. I would have taken the time. Again, meetings were scheduled and cancelled and I went home for the evening. Janine, I want to thank you because you did meet
with me and go over those line items. So, I just want to add that you did take time out of your day. Um, are we do we have to talk about this evening? We cut two positions. What are we adding back in? I mean, I'm assuming that's why we did it. It's imperative to
your discussion tonight. Absolutely. So, I think we might want to have that conversation, right? Because cut two positions and now what are we adding back? And do we have to have how does that work Ari and a point of clarification right so we don't have a superintendent so we can't consult with
a superintendent so we as a board are just going to add in whatever we want so it's the board's budget so you as a board have that right you always have that right but I thought we had the right to to to cut at the deis in consultation with the superintendent we now have the right
to add back whatever we want you absolutely have the right to move money from one line item to another line item. Huh? That is what you should be doing tonight because you can't get to a final budget if you don't Another clarification because this is new to me.
So, we always had the ability to put whatever we wanted in the budget. Always. when you say put I don't know about put whatever you want in it but you always have had the ability to move money from one line item to another line item in finalizing a budget that is the
board's prerogative and the translation of that that is that we are adding back in whatever we want correct you are correct so theoretically I I don't have the numbers say you save $200,000 the conversation should be where in the budget is that $200,000 now
going because there was a balanced budget previously with the tenative budget and now with the reduction of that $200,000, it's no longer a balanced budget. There's a lot there's a lot that goes into it, too. Um, and one of the reasons why I was comfortable with my
vote is some of these folks are not losing a job. They're still going to have a job. That position is going away. So, needs to be able to do the calculations of that to tell us exactly how much money that saves. But what we
can do is give her guidance. Like whatever you find that that's saved, we want to put towards health aids or whatever. You know, that's what we should be talking about right now. And we have we don't have to consult with I'm going to say a superintendent, right? Like we not not to do that. No.
So we have to get together again to figure out like I'm just trying to understand. We're getting together again before the 13th to figure that out. No, you're not allowed to. Um, well, well, I shouldn't say that, but anything you don't discuss this evening can't be included in the final budget that Janine
finalizes for the meeting on the 13th. So, we're having that discussion right now in public. Correct. Yeah, that's correct. Okay. Thank you. Another question. So, I So, I'm going to propose whatever money saved should go into cap reserve because we have like no money in
cap reserve. And what you're going to do with that is you're going to create a cushion because next year, make no mistake, you're going to have another three to5 million hole. That's my personal opinion because I know how to do math. Whatever you I said it last year and I was right. And uh whatever
you put in the cap reserve will create a little bit of a cushion. It's not going to be much, but it'd be something. One idea, sorry. One idea, I'll make a list is capital reserve benefits. What are other ideas? Benefits. I think it should go back to
the eats benefits for those that we cut specializ I think specialized aids. Um okay. Can I give you an idea? Of course. Can we not pay another interim superintendent $750 a day?
I mean, that seems like a pretty big amount of money when we have a superintendent that's ready and willing. Ari can answer that, I guess. Ari, well, just procedurally, why why are we paying
$750 a day for another interim when the best answer to that is you're not right now. I'm not sure. Well, there's no I mean Yeah, but I'm so tired of not being able to talk about something that's ridiculously I agree. No, no. So, you could talk about the uh the vacant
acting superintendent position. You cannot talk about Dr. Hibbs. Obviously, I think your question to me was why are you going to pay $750? My answer to you, the only answer I could give you is that's not even being voted on tonight. So, it's not happening.
So that we don't have a super though either. You have by virtue of job description in this district, you have an acting I'm sorry. You have a an assistant superintendent who essentially serves in thestead of a superintendent who is not available. Who is it? That's
all. Who is it? It's your assistant superintendent. Either one. There's two of them. It's No. Well, so it would be No, the one is not here. It would be Pam Nathan. That's why that's why in my opinion and I want to say this publicly
that I thought we should have voted in the interim act acting superintendent tonight. We should have done that to comply with what the county superintendent was instructing us to do. Some board members weren't comfortable doing that until the budget was passed. Um and so he will be voted in next week
in terms of why are we like wasting money or whatever you said. My view is the investigation No. Okay. I have a question. I have a question. Um, so let's see if I understand the
line items that you're talking about. In other words, you could take money from a line item and put it to another line item. All right. Take the administrative line item. Uh we had prior to
2014 our assistant principles were 10 months and then they were changed back to 12. Um we have supervisors that at one time were 10
months. If you're going to talk about something that's going to impact a group of employees that are identifiable and have not compelled this discussion or if any of them have not compelled this discussion to public, you can't talk about that in public. Again, well, I'm
not talking about any individuals. I'm talking about the fact that um the board has an ability to riff. Correct. Didn't we already do that? Yep. Am I missing it? No, we're going to do it again. The the board obviously has the ability to riff. Yes. Do it again.
Okay. So that could be in terms of from 12 months to 10 months. Nonrenewals. That is something that is legally permissible. But again, I I don't want to get into a specific position with employees that are identifiable because that would be an executive session conversation. Okay. So then I'll just
answer your question is yes, you can riff. Again, I want to put it on the on the table because if it's not, then we can't consider it for the 14th. Are you making a motion? Well, I'm I'm just trying to understand when you're talking about the line items that if you have a line item here and you move you change
it. Okay. In terms of the amount of No, I get what you I get what you're saying. But if if what you're suggesting where we we need where we need Yes. But so if what you're suggesting is to riff assistant principles, I don't know if how you know you got to make a motion or not like you
that's not in the that no one's getting rifted at the building level. So that has if that's a motion that you're making then you have to make that motion in order for us to Janine to figure out how much that saves and put that back into a line item. Right now, we're
having a discussion about potentially where we would want Janine to put I want to just focus on where would we want Janine to to tell us where she could put the extra money that she finds with the after the the motion that Steve just made passed on to people. Two
suggestions, two positions. No, we have four suggestions. Capital reserve benefits and then specialized aids and then not pay an interim. And I and I have the health aids. Health aids. Wouldn't that be under um
No. No. Yes. Okay. Specific. And my other one is um benefits for our employees that are losing hours with 20 plus years in the district. Okay. 20. That's the benefits one that somebody
said. Mhm. We also have to consider that some of that money is going to have to go to the people that are going to pick up the the job requirements of the positions that we cut. That's not really our purview, but if after the budget passes, the district has a question
about like that, they can ask that. But that's not We can't tell people what to do like with their jobs. But if we would have to consider it to come up with the dollar. I think it's weird. I think it's weird. We're cutting that's administrating the school. Like you can't say eliminate this job and then we
can't say eliminate this job and give these duties to the that's not our role. No, but I'm saying like it has to be worked into the budget that somebody's going to ask for more money to do this 64 whatever it is of responsibilities of that person we let me try and figure out how to explain
this with with budgeting. Um all the board it's the board's budget. All the board can do is recommend what your what we spend the money we have on and we can cut money from it. But we can't and then it's for everyone else to figure out how they're going to do that work. That's why when
you're making these decisions and these votes, it's important to think about like if you voted no, which you did, it's because you have a concern about that. You don't know where that workflow is going to go. And so that's why I just think the one thing we need to consider and we did talk about it is if we're
adding back a position or adding add, you know, cutting a position, but adding additional Somebody mentioned adding additional help. Well, we can't really do that. You can't really do that legally. say like, you know, we're cutting this position and making it a lesser
position. You can't we we can't do that. We could talk about that in executive session, but that's not something that's going to be my point is we need the dollar a dollar amount for I agree with you 100%. I think um based on like just the Janine, I don't know how helpful this is, but just whatever figure it was
that Steve said for four positions with benefits, it was it would have been a million dollars. So, let's just say half it was over with benefits with benefits with benefits. It was it was a million dollars, right? But some of those pe
those positions are going to go away, but those employees will remain and so will their salaries. They'll just go to different positions in the district. And so, she's got to figure out that she has to figure that out how much that's going to net net in the end. Two of the positions were cut. I'm I'm allowed to
say all this, right? I mean, I'm trying to be transparent. Well, you're not identifying anyone specifically. The reality is when a position's cut, if someone has tenure in another position, they could potentially bump someone. That has to all be figured out. I don't know the answer today as to whether or not the positions lost and the people
that served in those position are tenured in other positions. I we have to go through all that and figure it out. The question is though, there's going to be savings. Obviously, the question for the board is where does that money where is that money going to go into the budget? I think that's Janine needs to
prepare for the 13th. I I think that's where we need to give her like some guidance with that. It it you know Scott said should go into capital reserve. Personally, I don't agree with that. It should go into humans. You know, you're saying health aids. We don't know how much these things cost. So, I think we
just need to more say to Janine like the type of um expenditure that we want that money to go to. I think it should go to retaining teachers and and staff, but and I'm however that happens, I'm fine
with it. I'm not going to nitpick that personally. I Everybody needs to weigh in on how do you feel personally about that. I think Scott and I were clear. Linda was clear. Um Pat was clear.
I wanted to go benefits. Benefits. I think we need to see how much money we're saving before we can make any decisions whether it goes entirely to benefits. You guys don't have another opportunity to make a decision between now and the 13th. That's the way the statute reads.
How about this? I um I do agree with the benefits, but I also need to see how much money we're saving to see where it's going to go. And and I think if I'm not mistaken, one of the positions we can't talk about in public. Correct. That's that's correct. you have
to go into executive to talk one of the positions we can but I have a question that I don't know that I can ask in public because it affects other people. Okay. Well then I would probably save it just to be safe. So if it affects other people that have not compelled their uh
any discussion about them to public, it would have to be done in executive session. Okay. So we can go back into executive session to have these discussions because they are important discussions. Does anyone you guys want to do that or do you just want to say please put that money
into saving the jobs of I mean cutting the hours of 77 specialized or 77 aids that to me is destroying a district. So um personally I want every single penny
to go to that. That's my priority is for it to go to that. That's a clear answer for Janine. put it into not cutting those AIDS hours because if you cut their hours and they lose their benefits, they're going to quit. And then what are you going to do? You're going to have parents up here every single day saying, "I can't fulfill an
IEP. I, you know, my kid is getting hit on the butt." All this stuff directly affects kids. To me, that has always been the priority. And the teaching positions, which I do want to clarify for the public, of those teaching positions, a lot of them were people that retired and were just not filling
that role again. So, even though hundreds of people got these riff letters, in the end, teacher-wise, it's not affecting anywhere close to that. Um, but anyway, someone needs to make a decision. Someone needs to make an executive decision here. I'd like to
make a make a motion or a proposal that she looks at just giving people back benefits so we don't lose them. I don't know how many that's going to be. Janine is an expert on that. She can figure it out. How much money is there for that? I think we need to know that. She She needs time. Yeah, she needs time. And I agree. That's why I said we need to know how much money there is before we make
any decision. So, um, can I I' I'd like to um Julie, I'd like No, but even I'm sorry. Just they're they're talking even if we go back into executive, you guys, to talk about this, Janine, that doesn't give Janine enough time to do what she needs to do, right, Janine? Like, we can't just go in executive and you
figure out the savings. You have to look at people's longevity, their benefits, all of that. Yeah. I I think if I get my questions answered, I might be able to tell you better. Sure. Okay. So, she wanted to ask the questions in executive to give like a better I I the questions that I have to ask have to be asked in
executive. Okay. Because I wanted to give you time. Earlier today when we talked when you talked to county superintendent, he wanted to give you a couple days. So, well, yeah. So, my only concern for tonight is we have to be clear about what we're cutting and what
we're adding back. I think we have to talk about the line items. If you didn't get that from the conversation today, I might have to call somebody. Okay. Got it. So, we need to go into executive to finish that conversation. Carol, did you want to say something before we go back? George, hold on. Carol was trying to I
just um Yeah. I mean, I just I see some people with cards. I just wanted to see if I could make a motion to open it back up to public session for the second time because I hate to have everyone here and they weren't aware that there was going to be a second public comment. So, I just see some people with cards. I just want to give the opportunity to make the
motion to allow a second public comment before we go into executive. Julie Well, I mean, she needs a second and then discussion. Uh, wait. I I still have something on the budget. Well, we have to finish her motion. I'm personally against that because I think it's more important for the board to sit down and
talk than it is to sit through another hour of public comment. Like, every time we get together, we sit through hours of public comment and then we are exhausted at midnight and we want to go home. Like, we need to go and work in the back room. So, I'm a no on that. And that's why I just want everyone to know that
that's why we need to go. We need to talk as a board. We don't need Yeah. Like just wait. Yes. There was a second. So now this is the discussion here. Roll call, I guess. Whatever you want. It's all in favor. I'm a no. I'm no. I'm
no. We need to go work in the background. Sorry. I would be a yes if I can stay in the room the entire time. You can't if we're talking about superintendent. the the discussion about what it's about. I'm going to talk about the budget which you can be in the room for.
You're not conflicted from a conversation on the budget. Are we sure? I'm not going to spend another hour. My answer is we go into executive session and discuss the budget. And Linda, that wasn't even supposed to go like that wasn't that went on way too long. Who is a yes? Raise your hand if you're a yes that you want to take public
comment. Okay. If you're a no and you want to go work and talk about specifics. Okay. Can I get a motion to move into exec for the purpose of discussing? You have to wait. I got to I got to hold. All right. Go ahead, Connie. Go. All right. So, I just want to know if it's worth Janine looking
into the letting us know if at the administrative level that there could be a rift from 12 months to 10 months and what would the financial impact of that be? Yes, we're going to we can talk about that. Okay. Okay. Can I have a motion to move into executive? Excuse me. Wait a minute. For the purpose Wait
a minute. Wait a minute. No. Go ahead. Hold on. Go ahead. Go ahead. Hold on. We I think it's incredibly unprofessional to just throw out a random maybe riff and then we're going to talk about it. If that was part of a riff, then bring it up now and vote on the riff. I said,
I thought we were done. She's asking for time to talk same as you did. I'm saying we would have to then are we going to go back and talk about what Connie just suggested and then come back out and talk about it again. Okay. I was about to read the executive session resolution. Can I have a motion? Wait. I
have to question guys. Robert's rules. Every time I say can I have a motion? You all have this book. It's always like wait. No. I asked for a motion to move into executive. I'm sorry. Can I get a second? Okay. Okay. Resolved that pursuant to section 8 of the open public
meetings act, the public shall be included at portion of the meeting involving discussion of personnel related to the 2025 2026 budget discussion. Further resolved that discussion of such subject matter and executive session can be disclosed to the public if any action is taken by the board either at the resumption of the public session at the conclusion of the
executive session or at a public session at a later date. This executive session will last approximately I'm going to say a half an hour and we have to stick to that. Do you think we need longer than that? You have to take a vote. Get a motion in a second. Don't you have to say all in favor? I'm reading what we're
going in for and then we can vote on it. No action will Oh, no. Action might be taken by the board. Okay. All in favor? I I knew who are the naysay. Two. Okay.
Three nos. Every three nos everyone else. Yes. Motion carries. We will be back. Close executive and move back into the public session. Motion. Second.
Can I have a second, please? I'll second it. All in favor? I I Okay. Um the next thing, what was the next thing I was supposed to do? Um no, before that, there's something
else. No, she should be coming. Um, I need to make a motion to reopen to the public for one person whose card was not give passed down. Um, Joseph Rossy. He'll be the only speaker because he was supposed
to be in the first public section. Can I have a motion to opens for Joseph Rossy? Motion. Second. All in favor? I. I didn't have to second it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rossi. Can you Thank you. I'm Joseph Rossi of NJ uh PSA
speaking on behalf of the district's principles and supervisors. We clearly understand the difficult task this board of education faces. Fiscal challenges cause difficult decisions, but we feel strongly those decisions should involve the educators that are employed by the board that run
your buildings and supervisors. With all due respect to the board, what's been happening tonight is the board of education administering the district. We feel that's inappropriate. We feel the super the supervisors and principles should be consulted on how best to achieve a balanced budget. We seek to be
partners in working with a superintendent to best utilize existing resources to provide highquality education and support for children and families in this township. We respectfully request open dialogue and meaningful discourse to seek the best
recommendations and strategies for staffing levels which adhere to the budget and aly provide for superb education the students here deserve. We request the board's attention and adherence to established laws and guidelines for staffing changes if such
decisions are to be made. We cannot arbitrarily start discussing 12 to 10 months without negotiating the impact. We respect the financial challenges before you and we ask you to allow us as daily district leaders to be part of the solution which brings this district
forward. That is the job of the people you employ. They are qualified to do so. We respectfully ask for you to reach out to them to get recommendations that are viable and realistic. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rosie. Motion to close to the
public. Motion. Can I get a second? Second. All in favor? I think I can safely say that that's not being discussed. So, I'm not sure where you got that information. Well, Connie,
but I mean like we're not doing that. So, Well, because Connie brought it up. Um Oh, right. She brought that up, but we're Yeah. And then the other thing I was going to say is I thought the principles and supervisors were part of the budget discussions from the beginning. Not that's what we
That's what we were told. We didn't meet with them, but the administration said they met with them. Okay. Um, go ahead. Go ahead. I'd like to make a motion to amend the previous motion to riff the director of buildings and
grounds. I had the wrong position, so I take full ownership and I'd like to amend that motion. Make another motion to riff the manager of maintenance and custodial services. You want to resend that motion and then make a motion to riff the proper position. Okay. make a
motion to resend the previous motion. He just had the wrong title direct of director of B&G buildings and grounds. Okay. Is there a second? Second discussion.
Um roll call. Mrs. Baker. Yes. Mrs. Bloom. Yes. Mrs. Clancy. Oh, Mrs. Chilla. No. Mrs. Hartung.
Yes. Mr. Li Liberty. This is just to rescend, right? Yes. And this was This was to resend and then to riff the title. It's just the proper
title. Okay. No. Mr. Serrano. Yes. Mr. Ross. Yes. Miss Kazmpo. Yes. Okay. Next up, Janine. Does Janine need to talk now? Janine, are you ready to
Yep. Okay. Yeah. So, um, part of the public hearing, one of the things that we have to do is, uh, talk to the public about changes that we make to the tenative budget. So, if you were at our last public hearing, there were a couple of slides where we have to
publicly detail the line items and the changes. So, I'm going to do that um, right now. and it's just the changes to the budget surrounding uh the positions that were um that were cut tonight. So for the reduction of the manager of
custodial and maintenance services that will decrease line item 1100 26210 by 59,124 um for the reduction of the director of counseling. The line item is
1100000024103 and the dollar amount is 1113,440. um the the reduction of the associated benefits. The line item is 11 0000 291270 48,500 and the increase the
corresponding increase to all of that is um for the addition of health assistance and the account is 110000213110 and the total is $221,64. Okay. Anything else? Thank you. Um, are there any other comments, questions?
Okay. Can I think we're I have one. Yeah, I have one. Just uh this is budget related. Um, I'd put like to put a motion on the floor. Like to make make a motion that uh we bring back the superintendent that we have on leave. Uh that would save us
$750 per day. So that's my motion. Is there a second? Second. I can't. Any discussion? Any discussion? No. Roll call. Mrs. Bloom.
Mrs. Clancy. Absent. She's not here. So, right. Miss Chilla. Yes. Mrs. Hartung. Abstain. Mr. Le Liberty. Yes. Mr. Serrano. No.
Mr. Ross? No. Mrs. Baker? No. Miss Kazmple? No. Can I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion, right? We're done, right? Yeah. Okay. Um second on that
adjourning. Second. All in favor? Okay. On the 13th at our meeting on the 13th, we'll vote on the budget there. Um there won't be any additions or anything like that after today. This is it. This is the end of the budget discussions. We'll be voting on the budget on the 13th.
Thank you.