Okay. >> Okay. Thank you all for coming. We have a very special treat tonight. We're welcoming our newest recruits in the >> Oh, mayor, would you like to? >> No, no, no, no.
>> Oh, start with that. >> I'm good. Yeah. >> Welcome everyone. If you're able to stand, please pledge uh stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Please be seated. I will put it here. So, this is obviously my first promotion since I'm getting promoted tonight. So, I'm going to be calling up Mayor Susan McCarthy first so she can read me my
oath of office and read my bio. So, good evening everyone. Welcome my council colleagues, my administration team, our brave first responders, and your wonderful families and friends gathered here to witness this pivotal moment. Welcome everyone. Today marks a
profound milestone for our community. We are gathered not just to witness this promotion but to recognize the significant position of fire chief held by our former uh fire chief Pete Smeraldo and our recently retired fire
chief Anthony Veio. The position carries an immense burden of responsibility. They have proven the position requires absolute integrity, strategic foresight, and an unwavering devotion to the many people of our township. We are here
today to recognize Nick Gillow as our new fire chief. And let's welcome our new recruits. Before we administer the oaths of office, I want to address the families joining us this evening because behind every uniform is a family that serves
quietly from home. You are the ones who endure the interrupted dinners, the misss, the sleepless nights after any major incident. this township does and will continue to owe you a debt of gr gratitude. Thank you for sharing
your firefighters with us. Chief, as you take the helm of this fire department today, your mission shifts from managing emergencies to shaping our future. You are now the shield of the fire department, the mentor and the advocate for our firefighters. Lead them with empathy, and let's work together to keep
them safe. and let's ensure they have the training and resources they need to reser return return safely to their families after every shift. During my term on council and now as mayor, our standard of excellent fire service has always been high. My confidence is that
under your command, your motivation and your steadfastness in mind and body will continue to guide us. So, we wish you Godspeed. Uh, Nick's bio. Nick Carmine Gillow was born in Glenn Ridge, New Jersey to
parents Robert and Margaret Gillow, a graduate of Livingston High School. He continued his education receiving a BA in history from Monontlair State University in 2009. His family has been proudly serving the township of West Orange for over 70 years. Mikas began
his career with the West Orange Fire Department, being sworn in as a firefighter in November of 2011. He was then promoted to the rank of fire captain in 2017 and to deputy fire chief in 2023. In an effort to best serve this
community, he continues to better his business acumen with C certifications including fire subcode official, fire official, fire instructor, fire investigator, youth fire setter specialist manager, firefighter 1 and two, EMTB,
CPR, incident command system 400, IS-70 and 800, IML level 3, hazardous materials awareness and combined base trench rescue technician. He is proud to serve the township of West Orange and is
honored to continue to do so as the next chief of the department. Nick is married to his wife Nicole in he married his wife Nicole in 2019 and they have two beautiful children Christopher and Gabriella and they currently reside in Randolph. So
they should come up. Yeah, please family join us. And this Three. Mayor, can you get the microphone? A portable one maybe. >> Ready, guys? All right. I state your name. I, Nicholas,
>> do solemnly swear >> swear >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey >> and that I will bear true faith and al allegiance.
I will bear true faith to the same >> and to the governments established in the United States >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people. I do further solemnly swear
>> uh swear >> that I will faithfully >> that I will >> impartially >> and justly perform >> all the all the duties of the office of fire chief >> the office of fire chief >> according to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability
>> so help me God >> so help me God Oh, >> all right. Is this thing on? No, I have this. Can everyone hear me? >> Yes. >> All right. This is my first one. I'm very nervous. No. Uh,
I'd like to first begin by saying thank you to Mayor McCartney and the town council for being here. our support maintaining the public safety staffing in West Orange so we continue to be effectively and serve the community. I would like to thank my honor guard and the bag pipers and drummer for escorting
us in this evening. Even if it wasn't caught on tape, I think it was still an amazing thing for them to come out for us. Before we begin our promotions, I want to congratulate Chief Anthony Veio, Captain Smith and Hayes, and firefighter
Casano on their recent retirements. Thank you for your years of dedicated service. We wish you the best in your next chapter of life. Now to the uh promotions. Can you uh stand up and come over here, John? First up is John Cacero. He's going to
be getting promoted to the rank of deputy chief. John has demonstrated the ability and desire to take his career to the next level. I'm excited to see him rise to the challenge with his new role. While everyone can read John's bio in
the program, I'd like to share a little more that comes forward from myself. John is a husband, a father, very good softball coach, league champs, right John? and he holds the title in the department
for the best hair. I'm a close second. Like his two uncles who also served the department, John is a dedicated member who takes pride in serving his community that has meant so much to him throughout his life. John has prepared well for
this step and to take it and I have no doubt that he will continue to be a student in the profession while avoiding complacency. Accountability for others increases with every rung of the leadership that you climb and I trust that you'll responsibility seriously and
lead with firm, fair, professional and safety minded approach. I wish you nothing but the success in your new role. And joining John with us this evening is his wife Jacqueline, his daughter Amelia, and his two sons
Harrison and Elliot. We would like to at this time invite them up and come forward as he takes his oath of office. I'm not sure. >> I can. I state your name. I >> do solemnly swear
>> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey >> and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. and to the governments established in
the United States >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people >> the people >> I do further solemnly swear >> that I will faithfully >> impartially
>> and justly perform >> all the duties of the office of fire of deputy chief >> all in your duty of the office >> deputy fire chief according to the best of my ability. >> according to the best. >> So help me God.
And as you might have seen, uh it's a tradition for us to present flowers to the loved ones of our promotes. My wife just got one. Nicole, thank you for everything. Uh, this is just a small token of appreciation for supporting us through the stress, commitment, and dedication
that it requires through the examination and promotion process. I think Jacqueline deserves a little more than flowers tonight, but we'll see how she treats us at Liberties. Congratulations, guys. after. Oh,
John, can you give her to Jamie first? Give him the Jamie brother. Now, as you may have noticed, we have new recruits sitting in the first pew. Exactly. Um, so I'd like to recognize them. I want to start by saying
congratulations to all of you. I know I saw you guys yesterday, but congratulations on being completing your 13week basic fire academy. These members have dedicated significant time and effort to complete rig rigorous training and now are preparing to begin two
months of EMT training. But it doesn't stop here. I encourage each one of you to continue training, learning throughout your careers. Firefighting is a profession that demands constant proficiency and consequences of complacency that can be served. I have
great confidence in each one of you and your addition to the ranks and I wish you nothing but safe and successful, rewarding careers. So, I'm going to start by calling up each one in order and uh bring up one of your loved ones to hold the Bible and pin you. All
right. So, I'll start by Okay, I can call him I'll start by calling up Antonio Cente I will support the United States. >> I will support the Constitution of the United States.
>> And the Constitution of the State >> and Iare >> and to the government established in the United States >> and to the government established in the United States. And in this day >> and in this day >> through the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people. I confer this on this.
>> I confer this on this. I will faithfully >> I will faithfully >> and perform >> perform all the duties of the office of the visionary firefighter >> accord. That's my love you got.
Next up is Cins Des. I state your name. >> Do solemnly swear >> domly swear >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey >> and that I will bear true faith and
allegiance to the same >> and to the governments established in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people. I do further solemnly swear that I will
faithfully, impartially, and justly perform all the duties of the office of probationary firefighter according to the best of my ability. >> So help me God.
Amen. Come on. Next up, Steven McMichel. >> I state your name. I, Steven, >> do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New
Jersey State of New Jersey >> and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same >> and to the governments established in the United States. >> Established in the United States >> and in this state >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people
>> under the authority. I do further solemnly swear >> I do further solemn swear >> that I will faithfully >> that I will faithfully >> impartially >> impartially >> and justly perform >> justly perform >> all the duties of the office of probationary firefighter >> all duties of the office of probationary firefighter
>> according to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability >> so help me God >> so help me God >> Amen Amen. Exactly. >> Yeah. Next up, Christian Elijah. I state your name. >> I trustly >> do solemnly swear
>> swear >> that I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. there >> and to the governments established in
the United States >> and in this state >> and this >> under the authority of the people >> I do further solemnly swear >> further >> that I will faithfully >> impartially >> and justly perform
>> all the duties of the office of probationary firefighter >> firefighter >> accord according to the best of my ability. >> So help me God forward. All right, last but not least, Justin Voss.
>> I state your name. >> Do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution of the United States. >> I will support the Constitution of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. >> And that I will bear true faith and alle
and I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. >> I bear true faith and allegiance to the same >> and to the governments established in the United States >> governments established in the United States >> and in this state >> and this state >> under the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people. I do further solemnly swear
>> do further solemn >> that I will faithfully >> I will faithfully >> impartially >> impartially >> and justly perform >> and justly >> all the duties of the office of probationary firefighter >> all the duties of the office of probationary firefighter >> according to the best of my ability >> according to the best of my ability.
>> So help me God. >> So help me God. >> Thank you. Oh, very nice. Come up. Yeah, he does. Hey, hold for What's good?
Guys, you can go. >> That concludes our promotions and our swearing in for our recruits. I just want to say thank you again to the mayor and the town council for letting us take up your time in your your important meeting. >> Have a great night.
Right on time for public com. We usually don't open or ceremony like that. So we can go to the public meeting agenda. >> Correct. Uh actually
Happy birthday. Yeah. All right. I bet you supposed to be on. >> Oh, no. Goodbye. Yes. >> Yes. Maybe. So, did you see Mr. Sim?
>> Yes. >> Yes. Wanted to make some minor revisions based upon, you know, >> I know. >> No, but if we don't, we don't have the summer above. Just think about the public record that someone made got in
writing from the planning board that they don't even think this is necessary >> necessarily the plan not that we're required to follow this. I'm just saying somebody said thank you for your recommendations.
>> That's right. All we have already Mr. gonna be in here tonight. >> He's here. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. All right. Do you have your paperwork in here too or just tissues?
>> Perfect. >> I don't know. I guess he doesn't know. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I have no idea. >> I didn't see him. Everyone take their seat.
>> Please take your seat or exit so we can start the meeting. Thank you and congratulations everyone. Oh, how are you? Mr. P, he doesn't come in. >> Maybe very busy. Okay, let's get started.
>> Congratulations. >> He looks so happy. >> He does. >> They all look happy when they leave, you know. >> Okay, Joe, let's hit it. We >> We're on air. >> We're on the air. Okay, great. >> Here we go. >> All right. Oh. Sorry.
>> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, Chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on October 30th,
2025. Councilman Koviaak, >> present. >> Councilwoman Luden, here. >> Councilwoman Williams, present. >> Council President Scarpa, present. >> Mayor McCartney, We already did the pledge of allegiance and let the record show that Castle uh
Councilwoman Castelino is absent this evening. Okay. >> Okay. Public comment. >> Yeah. >> Okay. It is time for public comment. Mr. Plei, you want to start us off? I mean, Mr. Mr. Fagan, where was Mr. Plei? I got
him on my mind. He hasn't been here in >> Did we start the Did we start the public meeting? >> Yeah, >> we did. >> We did. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> Uh sorry for a little confusion tonight. >> Um thank you, Council President. Um I want
to uh start off tonight's meeting by saying we have the uh budget workshop uh meeting coming up on uh next Tuesday, June 30th here in council chambers. The Zoom and agenda link are posted online and uh as is the current version of the
budget is posted online at west.org. Um also uh June 25th, I believe that's this Thursday, uh in council chambers here is the council connection office hour. No
appointment is necessary. and the uh mayor's mayor McCartney's open office hours will be July 9th uh here in um town hall in the mayor's office and once again no appointment is necessary. Um I want to point out that the New Jersey
mobile MVC vehicle inspection is coming to 10 circle on Friday, June 26th. Uh this is a first come first serve basis. Uh please bring valid registration, insurance and driver's license. Uh this is for your convenience.
Uh I've been mentioning uh traffic advisory Pleasant Valley Way between Mount Pleasant Avenue and Rand Drive. This started on May 28th and is expected to continue uh for several weeks. We also have online um all the latest
happenings at the Jinny Duncle Pool on westn.org. You can go on there, check out all the latest updates. Uh in case no one noticed, certainly everyone working in town hall, the first floor today, uh they began work on the uh steps in front of town hall and it
was very loud. Um and you should avoid the area. The work is expected to continue through the weekend. Um I want to um mention upcoming summer concert concerts for the West Orange Community Band. Thursday, July 9th will be at the
Ginny Duncle Pool and Thursday, July 14th at the Clipper Pavilion in the South Mountain Reservation. Uh, also online, we have the updated canvasing map for New Jersey American Water. They are door-todoor canvasing for internal
home inspections. This began May 18th. So, you can check this information out at westn.org. I also want to bring up uh something that's very important and New Jersey ebike laws are going to full enforcement begins July 20th. Now the other day I
seen an ebike come around a blind corner on a curb and just narrowly miss a woman pushing a baby in a carriage. So um compliance is going to be important uh obviously but enforcement is going to be
difficult. So, everyone uh with ebike should re uh should uh educate themselves on the uh on the importance of the regulations and as they say they go into full enforcement begins July 20th. Um I want to mention that our West Orange firefighters uh recognized for
life-saving actions during medical emergency on June 18th. Uh members of Coopermanman Barnabas Medical Center neurology team came to fire headquarters to thank uh several firefighters for a call that they had responded to. I believe it was in May. Uh their uh
professional training helped them understand that it was a troke a stroke victim and their quick action actually saved a life and the uh Cooper Barnes Medical Center neurology team wanted to come and uh just give them uh uh recognition and thanks and uh some
additional training. So, our uh West Orange Fire Department where the promotion ceremonies were today uh with our new chief uh they are top-notch and fully trained and deserve our recognition. Um bear sightings have been reported. Uh
there was one the other day, Turtle Back Rock and eventually Turtle Back Zoo uh closed down. Now, what's interesting is most times animals try to escape from the zoo, but this bear wanted in. Uh and there was another sighting today in South Mountain Reservation. So you
should be aware uh information is on our website about uh bear uh bear sightings and bear uh tips on how to uh stay away from bears. Uh downtown Alliance June 25th uh evening markets the second in a
series. This information is on their website. and Fourth of July celebration will be on Fourth of July uh 12:00 p.m. to 6 pm West Orange High School, 51 Conford Avenue. There will be uh food trucks, DJ, kids zone, face painting,
lot live music, and more. Uh, finally I want to point out that um on September 2nd, 1965, a genuine Pullman car arrived in West Orange uh at what was then Rod's restaurant subsequently became the Essex
House. And it uh it's a genuine Pullman car. It was manufactured 1909 when Robert Lincoln, son of Abraham Lincoln, was the president of the Pullman company. And uh after 61 years, that car actually left on June 16th, 2026. Left
West Orange. I had posted this on Facebook and much to my surprise, uh my Facebook post received 77,000 posts, uh likes. So, um there's a lot of interest in this. Uh but the best possible outcome is happening. It's going to the
Cole Brookdale Railroad in Bowertown, Pennsylvania. uh where it's going to be refurbished and put back in service on excursion trains. And certainly thanks to the Marurus family for 47 years, I spelled years wrong, but for 47 years in West Orange and making that generous
donation. Um that concludes my report and unfortunately Mr. Plesi is not here tonight in the audience, but this is his information. He could be contacted uh at a paglei essex new jersey.org or uh if you desire to speak with him. Uh thank
you. I'm sorry for the confusion beginning tonight's meeting. Uh but we had a full house here and I believe everything is in order. Thank you so much. >> Went well. We can adapt change here. >> Yes, we can. >> Thank you. How many people in the audience would like to make public comment tonight? Would you please raise
your hands so we get a sense? >> Okay, great. And uh we'll uh do by topic. So um why don't you start Mr. Panulo and if anybody wants to speak about a topic that a speaker speaks about raise your hand and let me know so that we can hear all the information
about the same topic. It'll be easier to digest. Yeah. Come on up. >> Good evening. Joseph Panulo is expelled within the 200 foot notice area of West Essex Highlands. I came Good evening everybody. >> Good evening.
>> Um I came to just talk about two quick topics. I need glasses for one of them. Um I think everybody knows by now the resolution to not approve the plan for the West Ethics Highlands.
It failed on June 10th. Resolution was adopted. Um but in March 4th what was in arguments Brian Pler developers attorney introduced two concepts which are not on the record no one knew about until he disclosed them. One was a will serve
letter provided by apparently New Jersey American water. I have not seen that. I know there was an extension agreement which supports that apparently and I have a copy of that now and I have a question because the site among other
reasons it doesn't meet eligibility criteria under the law. It's not served by utilities sewer, water, gas, electric. The township under the settlement agreement is obliged. The developer is not obligated to to pay for
any expenses that are offtrack site improvements. It is 8/10en of a mile from Warner Road to Eagle Rock. It's not clear where capacity will come from for any of the above. Town engineer is not here. Unclear the
engineering's been done to know sewer capacity, water. I know the water's not there because I spoke to the VP of engineering there three years ago and they only had enough capacity for 300 condos. They didn't plan on 500 units. The town is going to absorb the cost of
all the infrastructure that's going to come from the edge of block 179 lot 32. In this agreement with the the extension agreement with NJW, installation of 260 ft of 12in pipe for Cusk and 460 ft in
Warner Road is estimated at $330,000 for 12 in of pipe. It's not a final plan. It's an estimate subject to change. I have two questions. One, how much is it going to cost if it costs 300 and some odd thousand dollars to deliver a couple of hundred feet of pipe? How
much is it going to cost to bring 8/10en of a mile blasted into the ground because you're on bedrock? It's going to have to get buried. It's going to go up Warner Road over road to Eagle Rock. That's just for water. What is it going to cost the township? Mr. Diniac is down here. I think in December during budget
hearings, he talked about authorize and issue debt for the town to be able to do certain things like infrastructure. Well, some of that money is going to have to get diverted not to repair or maintain or extend things that are needed elsewhere in town, but to serve a new site which is sprawled by definition and isn't served and didn't meet
criteria. So, the question is partly rhetorical only because the math can't be known because the information is not available. But that's times four utilities. It's not just water. That said, one other topic and then I'll leave a question for you, council, if
you don't mind. Um, it was uh July 1st is the next hearing after the planning board did not approve the Highlands application pending. We didn't know it was a traffic light four-way
signal proposed at the Crushmont Country Club. The developer has a contract purchase agreement to buy front of Rock. I guess they're moving forward, but the Cresmont owns the land and they have submitted PB 2603 is the application number proposing to add 38 spaces to
their parking lot and justify putting in a traffic light on the other side of Oval Road at Eagle Rock Avenue. That was part of the developer plan and need for many reasons. The traffic engineering RSI, etc., etc. doesn't meet. The plan
failed anyway. I'm anticipating it will be appealed, but trying to get a traffic light approved across the street to add 38 parking spaces in a parking lot at a country club, which has a fair amount of property and maybe has a need, is requesting relief from a number of
ordinances in the town, including the top of a sleep slope greater than 30%, they need relief. Uh they want to get 10 feet instead of a requirement of 100 feet. There's a disturbed area, 25% greater slope. There's maximum driveway
slope 10 and a half percent to remain 6%'s permitted. There was 90 I think there's 191 trees on a steep slope greater than 20%. You have existing ordinances that are in effect on that lot on our in our case at
the highland steep slope natural features uh everything was suspended design bulk here it's not planning board is I guess going to have the opportunity not to uh grant relief >> this up >> thank you status of confable housing
builders remedy in 88625 if you can sir thank you everybody >> thank you Mr. Panulo. Mr. Goldsman, would you like >> uh Justin Goldsman, West Orange, hope everyone's doing well. Um just a few
questions and comments tonight on resolution 16626, the shared services with Essex Fels for the animal control services. Just wondering if someone can please speak to the annual rate increases for this shared service agreement. Um I don't think it's necessary to argue over $2, but the
rates are not the same annual adjustment because there is a either typo or a miscalculation in the adjustments. Um on resolution 16726 on the agenda tonight for an authorization of 21,000 to repair the HVAC units that sit on the shared part of the library operated by the
Transportation Security Administration. Um, at the last council meeting, I asked about a $25,000 expense for the library sign renovation where we then unearthed that several components of the property are entwined in litigation and potential settlements. Councilman Koviaak rightfully in my opinion asked to see
those documents. Um, so my questions are, can you please explain the financial relationship between the library as a municipal property and TSA? Is this transaction in any way bound or entwined in similar litigation like the aforementioned library sign? When can
the public expect to see those settlement agreements for the library sign? And more importantly, why is the repair work for the library coming out of municipal funds and not the library funds? On resolution 17326, I want to thank the administration for adding that
to the agenda. As a member of the environmental commission, I know that this plan has lapsed. Our community forestry plan has lapsed. It's a helpful tool for us for knowing our trees and our plan for community management of them. But more importantly, we are missing out on tons of grants throughout
the town because without this plan, we are automatically ineligible. So, I know it's a $5,000 uh, you know, ask on the budget, but we are literally ineligible for millions of dollars worth of grant because we don't even have step one done. So, I urge you to consider that.
Um, I'd like to urge a yes vote for the second and final passage on the cannabis ordinance to further support our small businesses and generate additional tax revenue. on 297826. Once again, I'm in favor of the restricted parking spaces for our
residents with disabilities yet. Once again, not to pit communities at odds with each other, but this is two council meetings in a row where we're now seeing the swift speed of government when it so chooses to take action on parking concerns. While issues with parking in the valley on the alphabet streets are
still not resolved, I think the town can and should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. on the bill list. Don't know if we ever got any clarity on the litigation surrounding the library sign renovation. Um, and on the 71,000 for the OPAC project, um, all for the
improvements there, it does say on the bill list partially grant funded. I just think for bookkeeping and for public transparency sake, when something is publicly grant funded, we should know how much the grant is funding. Is the bill list impacted by the grant? Is there more to the bill and we're only
seeing the remainders because it's partially grant funded? Just think for transparency it's important. Um, on another fiscal note, we introduced the budget in April of 2026. We still have important public hearings that are set to continue next week. Um, while the
state does allow flexibility beyond March 20th, that is meant to be a safety valve, not the norm. Most well-run municipalities will adopt budgets far earlier to provide tax certainty and municipal planning stability. We see that lack of certainty reflected in
resolution 16526. That estimate tax estimate is really just a placeholder. It will not reflect the final bill. It will likely re lead to residents paying fines after they've thought that they've already paid their taxes and now we're
going to be told that that wasn't the proper amount that we had to pay. So, I know we have to collect the money, but I am just saying that once those clarifications go out and those adjusted numbers go out because it's not going to be that reflected number. We know that's not going to happen. To have clarity as
much as possible in whatever transparent documents we're putting out to say you paid this, sorry, you still are going to owe this because the numbers aren't reflective in that third quarter payment. Um, I I really just think we should be doing a better job at adopting the budgets on a timely fashion and not uh going through this late last minute
process as a as a norm and we should really be working better. I think multi-year budget projections help us immensely with that so that we can say this is 2026. As we go through the 2026 budget, here is what 27, here is what 28, and here is what 29 might look like.
Just like most households will plan to say this is a payment for this year. I know that this is a payment coming up. So, I think multi-year budget projections would help us a long way. And lastly, I just want to say um thank you um for everyone involved for the Junth events over the weekend. They were very well um put on and I learned a lot
and it was it was great to see some members of the community come out. So, thank you. >> Thank you. He covered a lot of ground. Does anybody want to speak about any of the >> Okay, come on up, Miss Bick.
Joy Bernett Pot Place. So as I look back to my original email regarding this parking situation, it is dated May 2009. My children were 2, 10, and 16. I was told by Mr. Laapour that it was a
simple process. The folks on Glenn and Oakidge had obtained their permits by submitting a petition signed by the residents on the street. I followed the instructions, left my children, and got all of my neighbors to sign my petition. Once the petition was submitted, I was denied. I was told by Mayor Paresi that
he didn't believe in permit parking public streets, but I advised him that he had already done so, but he refused to assist me and my neighbors. After numerous emails and discussions with the mayor, I had a focus on being a mother of three and teaching and a teacher in
town. The council and the mayor changed. So I tried again in 22 23 24. In the midst of laying my two parents to rest, I continued to run to get the runaround by the council and the mayor and was offered nothing as I offered another
petition. Now, there needed to be a parking study was the response that I got. It is embarrassing that my children are now 33, 27, and 20 years old. I am now a grandmother of two with yet
another grandchild on the way, and this issue is still not resolved. This is the tale of two neighborhoods. Residents above Rison submitted one petition and received assistance immediately. I received a 17-year runaround.
>> I ask you, what is the difference between the people above Rison and the people below? All I can see is a lack of melanin and a difference in our incomes. Tonight, I would like a promise that the council will be equitable to my
neighbors and me by providing us with the same permit parking as my neighbors above Rison and kill the idea of this one-way street pilot. It is inequitable. It is injustice and it is discriminatory. And you know, I have
been teaching before school ended. I was teaching my children in my class about democracy and why our forefathers coming up on our 250th anniversary chose this form of government. And what they said, what I taught them was that it was so
that we could elect representatives to actually represent us. So when I come to a meeting and someone says, "Well, Joy, I know this is what your neighbors want, but you got to get more people to come out." That is not what democracy means.
What democracy means is that we vote for you, put you in this space, and you are supposed to help us and do what we need as residents and taxpayers. So, no, I'm I can't keep getting my neighbors to come out here. I had there was a night
there there was 40 people 30 people. We have to work. I am exhausted. I just finished a school year. I am exhausted. I didn't submit the video cuz I don't have the the time. This is taking over my life. I have another baby on the way, a grandchild, and I'm here tonight still
talking about this because they can't park at my house when they when they come to see me. This is ridiculous and it needs to be handled. You have to respect us just like you respect the other people. It like I I don't know what else to say. There's been a news
story. Like I just don't understand what else the council and the administration want. Why will you not treat us like you treat the other people in our neighborhood? It is injust. It is unfair. And it is discriminatory. And I
would like you to take a stand. Last month I heard that it needed to be in three people. Well, there's three people here who cla three people who claim that they want to help us. So, I would like your help and I would like this thing put to rest once and for all. 17 years
is 17 years too long. >> Thank you, Miss Bernett. You're right. Enough is enough. Does anybody else want to speak about this? Mrs. Fields Murphy. >> Good evening everyone. I'm Kim Fields
Murphy Quinnby Place and I'm here to share that I'm disappointed but unfortunately not surprised that the parking issue in my neighborhood wasn't resolved before the end of the school year. However, I expected to have permits in place as
soon as school closed to enable the recip the recipients of the preferential treatment the seat and hall prep students would have so that they would have as much time as possible to adjust to having to park to their park in their own designated parking lot. I'm insensed
that this continues to be an issue not resolved to the benefit of the people impacted by it. It's ridiculously exhausting to have repeatedly make a plea for equity of what has been afforded to residents who literally live
in the same neighborhood but across some magical privileged border. Please implement the permit process that Miss Bernett has been requesting and requesting and petition petitioning since May of 2009.
17 years. It would be immensely appreciated if that process were put in place soon and with no further suggestions or discussions regarding one-way streets. I implore you, please stop ignoring us. We
are not going away and it would be wonderful if you were if we were not treated like children who don't know what's best for us. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak about this topic?
>> No. Okay. Yes. >> Um, so my name is Ridge Kennedy. I have lived in West Orange for 25 years now. Um, I'm here to talk the I'm going
to give you my little handout. Sound thinking briefing prepared for West Orange Township Council, noise pollution and leaf blower use in West Orange. So, I came to a council meeting
um a few months ago and uh there was a little bit of interest. Somebody got one of the members got back to me, but there was no followup. I met with Mayor McCarthy and McCartney and I uh learned more about how she felt about the
problem, what her concerns were. I went I attended a meeting at the New Jersey Department of Environmental uh protection and talked to them about there is a model sound ordinance that the state has created. It's about 27
pages long. It requires uh professional assistance. It it basically would ask the town to send some people to school at Rutgers to learn how to read sound meters and stuff like that. Also, I one point I know something about sound. I
wrote a book about sound. So, I' I've been around it. I understand decibb and stuff like that and the physics of sound. Um, so I met with the mayor. I went to RU. I've also reviewed uh sound ordinances
nationwide. I've looked into the history of the sound ordinance in West Orange and some of that is here. And let's pass these around. Well, heck,
there's a bunch of rooms around >> and basically and one of the Mayor McCarti, one of her concerns was, you know, she had talked to the landscapers and and the people who represent the
landscapers. So, one of the people I talked to was a landscaper. I talked to Jose who's done work for me and basically what I found out the big picture is this. Maplewood has an ordinance banning gas leaf blowers.
South Orange has an ordinance that I think gives people a little uh g gives them a couple of months when they can run the gas the noisy ones. Uh I I don't know whe whether there's a that other town. What's the next one
over? >> Montlair. >> No. Uh, I'm blanking. >> South Orange. >> Well, Maplewood, South Orange, West Orange, and Montlair. Montlair has an ordinance now.
>> And these landscapers all work in all these towns. So, they already have the quiet equipment. >> In West Orange, they don't use it because they don't have to. So basically, they've got quiet
equipment, but they're not using it. And we really need to address that, you know? I mean, come on. Uh, as I point out in the in in the thing, the the leaf blower noise problem, leaf blowers didn't exist when the town passed its
original ordinance or that they did not they weren't used widely. Okay? And leaf blower use is going up and up and up and up because more people more landscapers more people are using landscapers. So
use is going up and at the same time because of COVID and people working at home. Our need for quiet is really greater. You've got people who are actually, you know, working in their home offices and then somebody fires up a leaf blower outside. It's unreasonable. Mhm.
>> You know the old line, if you knew what I pay in taxes and somebody can come out and there is a solution available, it's easy. The landscapers are already dealing with this. So, come on, West Orange. Let's do it. So,
my three asks are this. Is there a point of contact in the town? Somebody that I should talk to about this topic? Is there a leader in the town? who who should I talk to? Is there someone on the council who's
willing to to be a champion and and move this forward that I can talk to and say, "Hey, let's go to a meeting. Do we need to bring, you know, 50 neighbors down or something like that to and and finally, you know, let's just look at this from a consistency label, consistency point of
view. Uh we got three towns around us that have a ban in place. Let's just do the simple thing. The technical me, hey, I'd say, oh, no louder than 65 dB or something like that and and you can get into >> your times up.
>> Simple. Let's just change the law, you know. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak about this this topic? Nope. Miss Bennett? Thank you, Council President. Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. So, I'm actually coming up to speak about the
topic prior. Sorry. Um, I'd like to briefly address the proposed executive session discussion regarding parking in the valley. I understand there are times when the council must receive confidential legal advice. However, the policy decisions that affect residents
should be discussed in public whenever possible. Nothing about the broader question of neighborhood parking policy should be shrouded in secrecy simply because legal advice may also be involved. Parking is not just a transportation issue. It is an equity
issue. Residents across West Orange face parking challenges. Yet some neighborhoods receive permit parking or other accommodations while residents in other parts of town, often communities with fewer financial resources and less political influence. And let's face it,
more people of color continue to struggle with little relief. The question residents deserve answered is simple. What objective standards determine who receives parking protections and who does not? If the answer depends on who has the loudest
voice, the greatest political influence, or the most resources to advocate for themselves, then we do not have a fair system. Every resident deserves equal consideration regardless of their address, neighborhood, or so socioeconomic status. I urge this
council to have the public conversation about parking policy in the open. Explain the criteria, share your data, invite community input. Transparency builds trust and fairness requires that similarly situated residents are treated similarly. West Orange deserves a
parking policy that is consistent, equitable, and visible to everyone, not one that appears to favor some neighborhoods, while others are left wondering why their concerns receive a different or no response at all. Um, the agenda
covers a number of important matters, but I would be remiss if I didn't address the issue that's top of mind for myself and many other residents, the township sewer utility and the fees being collected from taxpayers. I've raised this issue before and I will continue raising it until residents
receive a clear answer. A clear and transparent answer. The question is actually very simple. Is the township collecting millions of dollars in sewer fees because those funds are necessary to maintain, repair, replace, and improve our sewer infrastructure? or
is the township collecting those fees in excess of what is reasonably necessary in order to subsidize or augment the township's general finances? Those are two very different purposes. If residents are being told they are paying a dedicated sewer utility fee to support
sewer infrastructure, then those funds should be managed consistently with that purpose. If instead the fees are being collected at levels designed to generate excess revenue for unrelated governmental operations, then residents deserve to know that you cannot justify
a fee on one premise and then use it for another. If that is what is occurring, it raises serious questions about transparency, public representations, and whether taxpayers are receiving the honest accounting they deserve. This is fundamentally a question of fiduciary
responsibility. Government has an obligation to collect only what is necessary, to spend those funds for their intended purpose, and to be completely transparent about where every dollar goes. So tonight, I ask this governing body and the administration to provide straightforward answers.
Question number one, what is the current balance of the sewer utility? Number two, how much of that balance is actually reserved for current and future infrastructure needs? Three, what capital projects are planned and what is their estimated cost? Four, how was the
current sewer rate determined? Five, has the township conducted? An independent analysis demonstrating that the current fees are necessary and appropriate. These are not political questions. They are questions every rateayer has a right to ask. As someone who has served,
sorry, I lost my place. As someone who has served on the citizens budget advisory board, I believe transparency builds trust and silence erodess it. If the township's practices are appropriate, then demonstrate that with data. If changes are needed, acknowledge
them and fix them. The people of West Orange deserve facts, accountability, and complete transparency, not assumptions, not ambiguity, and not explanations that change depending on the audience. Thank you. >> Thank you,
Miss Miss Sylvestri. Good evening. Claire Sylvestri, 20 Grand View Avenue. Um, I just wanted to speak on the topic that was just brought up about the sewer fees. Um, I've been attending the meetings for some time and I know that the sewer fees issue has
been a longstanding one for a number of years since it was brought up some years ago and as recently as two years ago when um I believe it was two years ago, maybe three years ago when the mayor proposed the budget that had a 16% tax
increase. Um, one of the ways that it was to bring down the uh the 16% tax increase was to increase the sewer fees. I know I spoke at several meetings during that time about questioning the
whole issue of where the sewer fees were going. And at that time, Mr. Gross, our CFO, basically admitted that the sewer fees were going to the operating budget. In fact, um, Councilwoman Williams, who
was council president at the time, actually said in the public response to to those questions, and I was not the only individual, the only resident who questioned that, but she had said, "Yes, if we, you know, I don't like the way the sewer fees are being administered
and being raised and the whole idea of the bedrooms versus bathrooms or water usage." But she said if we do not raise these fees, we are going to have a much more substantial tax increase. So I don't think this has been I I don't
think it is the appropriate way of um managing our budget and generating revenue, but I think it is um it is not true that the township has been um misrepresenting it. um it they shouldn't
be doing it that way, but we are into a situation where we're talking like I believe $4 million. At the time, a couple of years ago, we were talking about an additional $4 million that was going to go into the operating budget to pay for um the expenses of uh the
township. So to to suggest that we can just, you know, pull those that money out and just um uh designate it to sewer fees is I think um not really feasible. Okay. at this point
and perhaps if in the future the CFO and the council wants to look at how to shift that money away from the sewer fee, that is that is a very um admirable aspiration. But I think we we any of us who have
been paying attention to the budgeting process and the operating um costs of the township know that that sewer fee has been uh basically another tax a tax in another name. So, um, you know, I
hope that we can move forward at some time in the future, but to expect that the township I personally would not like to see that's going to mean everybody's taxes go up a significant amount of money if we pull back from the sewer fee
and put it into the regular tax base. So, um I just want to clarify that because I know I did speak at length and did a lot of research back at that time and you know brought it up to the current administration at the time and
we were told then that yeah pretty much that money is going to the operating fund. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would anyone else like to talk about this topic? Any other topic? I'm sorry I don't know your name.
Give us your name and your address. >> Uh, good evening. My name is Luke Russo. I've lived at 7 Ridgeway Court for 5 years with my wife Sylvie, our two daughters, ages five and two, our cat, and our dog. Uh, behind us is 15
Ridgeway Avenue. It is a flag lot that has only 14.8 ft of frontage to Ridgeway Avenue. The owner of this property has submitted an application to the planning board that seeks to subdivide the lot into two flag lots sharing the same driveway. On February 6th of this year,
the owner of this flag lot demolished the existing home. I immediately learned from the building department that this was done without a demolition permit. An Oprah request made by me confirmed there was no demolition permit. Subsequently, the owner of this property began
excavation of the foundation of a new home without any construction permit and he installed forms for footing for a new home in the area of excavation. While this was taking place, apparently the excavation reached the water table
which resulted in the excavation area to be flooded to a depth of several feet of water. There was so much water that it literally became a duck pond. On April 21st, I reported this to zoning officer Janice Gary Adams, and she directed me
to bring up these concerns at public comment during the next planning board meeting in relation to the application for the subdivision. On May 6th, a meeting of the planning board was held, but no formal testimony was given because of public outcry from
neighbors regarding the condition of the property and its water-filled state. The applicant was instructed by the chairman to reapply and resend notice to neighbors because it's because the notice stated there was a two-story dwelling on it when in fact there was no
two-story dwelling. Following this meeting, the property owner brought in a gasoline or diesel powered generator that powered a pump and began pumping the water. On May 27th, the garage floor was demolished using the excavator on site and the material was bucketed into
the excavation hole and perimeter. The area that was excavated to a depth intended to be a basement was then filled with broken concrete from the garage floor and then with six loads of crushed stone. Six trucks loads of crushed stone were brought in and the only compaction that was done was with a
plate tamper. No vibratory roller and presently the excavation area is only partially filled and construction has began on the existing remains of the original house. I believe it is improper to permit construction on a site where illegal and unpermitted excavation and
unsupervised filling of the property has taken place. This unsupervised filling is likely to result in dangerous conditions and settlement for any structure that is built upon it. I have seen water in this excavated pit as recently as June 16th while construction
is allowed to proceed at this site. This morning at approximately 6:54 a.m. workers arrived and began placing lumber into the excavation. This is lumber that has been fully submerged underwater in that pit since March, removed around Memorial Day and sitting outside
deteriorating ever since. Apparently to build formwork for a concrete pore. I request that a stop work order be issued and an engineering study be done so that a proper plan be prepared for an approved design for the dewatering of
the site. I asked the town council and the mayor to assist me to resolve this condition so that it does not become a hazard to future owners of this property, nor does it become a hazard to my own father. >> I have photographs and videos available for review. Thank you for your time and
your dedicated service to our town. >> Thank you. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to make public comment tonight? Hi, my name is Larry Cohen. Uh, I live in Fanwood. Actually, I'm a volunteer with the Humane Society of the United States. I wrote to you last week to ask
you to consider adopting a pet store ordinance. And I was happy to see it's on the agenda tonight. Um, just from listening tonight, I can see that you guys are constantly trying to decide what types of entities, businesses, etc. are right for your
tail, whether it be a cannabis shop, um, leaf blowers. I'm sure at some point you may decide that you need to talk about an AI data center that's right for West Orange. I'm asking you to consider whether or not it's right for the character and the morals of West Orange
to at some point in the future perhaps have a pet store in town that would sell puppies, knowing that the overwhelming evidence is that every pet store in New Jersey sources these puppies from huge puppy mills out in Midwest states. The
law is almost designed to make that necessary. They must get their dogs from federally licensed breeders. Those breeders are governed by the Animal Welfare Act. I don't know if you can see that, but this is what the Animal Welfare Act allows breeders to do to
their dogs. It's a nasty It's a nasty, heinous industry. The great thing about an ordinance like this is that it would not cost anything. It would not hurt anybody. All it would do was would be to protect the status
quo in West Orange. I'm sure you have pet stores. I know they don't sell dogs because I know all 17 of the stores of New Jersey that do sell dogs. You would just be making a statement that the morals and the values of your town do not include working handinhand with a
business model that profits on torture and cruelty to animals. The Animal Welfare Act allows breeders to keep a dog in a six foot cage for its entire life, breeding every cycle, and then when they're done with it, they can kill them.
These are the types of breeders that pet stores get their animals from. And it doesn't say that any store in town would have to change at all. It doesn't prevent any pet store in the future from coming to town. It's just a statement about your values and your
morals in terms of the ethical and humane treatment of animals. I can tell you South Orange has this ordinance. Maplewood has this ordinance. Montlair has this ordinance. Nutley has this ordinance. Livingston has this ordinance. Did I say Caldwell?
>> No. No. >> Caldwell has this ordinance. They are six of 155 municipalities in the state of New Jersey that have passed this ordinance. This is nothing new. You're not being revolutionaries here. 10 states across the country have passed
this statewide. Colorado did it just a couple of months ago. Um New York has done it. Delaware is considering it right now. People are basically waking up. I mean, everybody knows what we think of our own pets, right? How we feel about our own dogs in our homes,
how we want them to be treated. Do we limit that just to the dogs in our own homes? Or when we can at no cost or harm to anybody, can we make a statement and say, you know what, these animals deserve better
everywhere and as a town, we do not want to be a part of this. Um, I have a very simple uh fact sheet that I can give you that you can peruse. In fact, part of this, if you could hang
that up, part of this explains how these laws are working. Number of breeding dogs is going down. The number of bred puppies is going down. I'm sorry if I don't have enough for everybody there. And as I said, there's ample
proof that this is an issue. The Star Ledger did a front page story on this that continued for two full pages inside a couple years ago. The Humane Society is constantly doing reports based on publicly
um received documents that they ask for and get and and go over with a fine tooth and and comb. The evidence is there. I can tell you. Um so I would very much urge you to consider this. I'm happy to stay in case
you have any questions during your discussion. Um, thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you for coming. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to make public comment tonight? >> No. Okay. Seeing none, we'll close public comment.
>> Second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> Any opposed? Public comment is closed. >> Okay. >> Council president. >> Yes. May I just uh >> express one caveat? >> Sure. Uh there were a number of questions regarding
uh the West Essex project. U there were some uh questions regarding or comments regarding the the Ridge Road uh and >> executive session.
>> Uh no no I I I I may be able to uh address some of that gentleman's concerns about 50 Ridge Road. Uh but we should not no one on the governing body should be commenting on uh the West Essex. We
>> are likely we're anticipating litigation. >> Uh and we shouldn't be commenting on pending applications. >> Would you like to start us off now or would you like to wait until after? >> Whatever suits your bud. >> Okay. Why don't you go ahead? >> Okay.
Uh so again on West Essex uh I know that there were some uh interesting questions that were posed by Mr. Pulo. Uh we we shouldn't be answering them. I don't personally know the answers to the
questions. Um and they certainly are complex. So, so I don't think that anyone uh present would even have the expertise to to address those particular questions. Um he did have a question
however about the uh pending litigation the order of housing and and I have some good news uh for for the board and and and for the public. Uh just today we did receive uh the court's order and the court did grant us the temporary
immunity that I had sought. >> Excellent. >> So at least we know we're not going to be getting new builder remedy lawsuits right now. >> It's not a slam dunk. We have a lot of work to do as we we know and we've been discussing in close session. So we have
to continuously move this ball forward. If we don't, the court will likely revoke that. Uh but as of now, no new suits coming. So kind of stop with me. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> My god. Um
with regard to uh the uh 50 Ridge I guess it was Ridge Road. >> Bridgewag. I can't even read my own. 15. >> Oh, 15. I thought it was 15. Okay. um if
you know that's if that's a pending application, we really should not uh be commenting on it per se. However, uh if work is being done for which permits are required and we're not issued, then a
stop work order would be the appropriate thing to explore. And I I think the uh the administration could certainly look into that. Um it would be improper to uh for the governing body to say we're going to assist on an engineering. We
don't have jurisdiction that okay it is regulated. If there's a permitting process that permitting process or our officials in the building department know under what circumstances building permits can be issued. Um,
I could go through a whole dissertation as to reasons why a building permit could or could not be issued on a on a given lot. I don't think that that's particularly purposeful tonight or will be of any benefit. However, I think that
we could look into uh whether or not building permits were applied for and obtained. Uh I I will say this however uh as part of the building permit application process they do look at the
zoning issues to the extent that under certain circumstances a building permit could be issued under other circumstances they're going to say you have to get approval from a land use. So there's a number of reasons why maybe a building permit can't be issued. uh but if it should be issued and it wasn't
then no work should be going on and we should be taking the steps necessary to put a stop in place. >> In terms of the parking permits um on on our last council meeting there were three of us who said that we wanted to move forward and give parking permits to
the alphabet streets and I was going to make a motion to do that. I know there's something in executive session. Should it not be discussed? Is could any of that be discussed here publicly? I'm sorry. >> Oh, well you uh well certainly I mean I
can also answer the one comment and concern that I had. >> Um uh I I just thought that uh the process there were certain things that I it speaking too fast tonight. Uh there was
obviously based upon uh the governing body's suggestion uh a resolution was uh proposed. Uh the problem that I had with that resolution was that there should be some enforcement mechanism in place for
a pilot program to have any sort of success. And I I I could articulate this isn't really deep legal advice. It's kind of like just fundamentally thinking about the process. Uh I think that
uh I'm not sure how we could have an effective pilot if there's not a mechanism to prevent people without the permits parking in the area. Because if uh there's not a mechanism to tow a vehicle or to ticket a vehicle, even if
you don't have a permit, you're not going to really listen to the the fact that the the township wants to have a permitting process. Uh and I do think that if we're going to go that route uh about even running a pilot, I think and
I have to still look at this. I just saw the resolution in the last, you know, several days and and you're right, council president, that was something that was uh on track to be discussed this evening. uh I did not see it in time to really look into this, but I think that if you're going to be
imposing uh fines or penalties that that really has to be done by way of ordinance and not a resolution. So, uh I'm not saying uh yay or nay, but I am saying that there was a little bit of a concern with respect to the process that
I saw was moving forward and that's what I had uh expressed a concern about and we should look at it. >> Yeah, I saw that as an ordinance. I I we can't do a resolution. Obviously, it needs to be an ordinance. Um we cannot not move forward because we don't have enough police or whatever. We have it on
every other street. We're just going to have to do our best to uh to police it. >> Well, you know, th those other concerns are are for the other department heads, but but from a a legal standpoint, >> I did see an issue of concern that we we
should clarify, >> right? So, that would be an ordinance. Hopefully we'll get that done. Uh, is there anything else? >> Uh, no. I uh I don't think >> Okay. The um the issues about the sewer really would be for um I know Mr.
Datiniac has talked about them and um I don't know if you would like to reiterate some of some of those comments. I have some ideas of my own just from being here. >> So, first of all, Mr. Deniac apologizes. he uh he had an un unforeseen family um
event that he had to u that took him away from tonight. So um I I'm not going to rehash what Mr. Diniac has expressed several times in the last few meetings, but understanding that, you know, we are working toward
um from a softwarebased system, we're looking to upgrade our internal mechanisms so that we can look to get rid of the current system that we have or explore the ways of of of um charging for for
fees. Unfortunately, for now, that's staying in place. Uh we I know that they've been working the finance department along with the other departments. We're bringing in Mr. Denniac has spoken about it. We're bringing in Edmonds that they were doing, in fact, they were doing training today on it. Um he anticipates it to go
live in September. Um and that's a system that can actually work with New Jersey American Water. So, so while we meet every two weeks, these things just don't happen overnight. So, but we're working toward that goal of of u of switching that out, but it's just it's
unfortunately it's going to take a little bit of time. And as far as the financing and and how he um administers that, you know, he he has spoken about that and I'm not going to step on his toes and say something that's not may as be accurate as possible. So, u but it's
it's not it's like a lot of other things. We just unfortunately we we're working on it but it's just it's taken us a little bit longer than we >> anybody would like to hear. >> He can address it next about the operating budget, how those monies are. >> I'll ask him I will ask him to uh to prepare
>> talk to us about that next. I know Miss Carbalo has talked to us about the sewer systems and what it would cost to do that. And I think it's important for the um public to understand one of the reasons that we had the sewer fee in addition to the t regular taxes was
because if we didn't do collect the monies as a sewer fee the 501c's the hospitals some of the taxexempt businesses would not have to pay taxes at all. So this was one way of making
sure that everyone paid in which is why uh I remember back with Mr. gross. We decided to collect the monies in that way. >> Um, okay. Yes, >> if I could just follow up with Mr. Sorero, you said you've gotten the court order that is providing us with
temporary immunity so that no additional builder's remedy lawsuits could be filed. So, my understanding is there are six builder's remedies that have been filed against us. Are all six of those continuing or is any of them so so the
effective date of the immunity is February I think it's February 26th is the date I recall. It was the date that we filed the the papers. >> Okay. Because uh my memory is that the sixth builder's
remedy was filed after you made that filing. Is is my memory faulty or >> No. No. Your your memory is accurate. uh that particular project is one that we are still talking to because there seems to be an avenue and we're going to
discuss that more in close session. I I don't want to get too deep into it in public session. Uh but that particular project seemed to be uh it was a smaller project and it seems to be something that we could resolve uh without any
sort of significant impact. Uh so we we'll discuss it a little bit further. >> Okay. Thank you. Just >> and and there was a there was a mild carve out for that one in the event that we do not settle uh that we could
address the issue of whether or not they truly should be included. So if we do not opt it, we still could litigate it. there was a reservation in the order that the litigation is essentially just stalled pending a possible settlement.
If not with regard to that one project, we could relitigate. We could open litigation up again. >> Thank you. >> Okay, no problem. >> And Mr. Smeldo, Mr. Goldsman had some questions about the HVAC system,
about the documents and the where are the funds coming from? Could you answer those? >> So >> litigation. So the it's two different things here. Um so the the um reszo that we're looking to to uh pass tonight or we're
asking you for your consideration is about designing. So the building is from 1971 23 I think it was 72 was built. When we we redid the uh the library added the library to the building the project was funded to outfit the library
not the remainder of the building. We did replace one additional air conditioning unit back in 23 or 24. I forget. I think it was 24 because of of supply chain issues, but there's several others up there that have to be replaced. They're old. They're they're I can't even tell you what year they are,
but they're beyond their service life. Um and they affect our other tenant. And so we need so Miss Carbalo recently went out and did an assessment of all our um our buildings and facilities and the roof structures and and anything that
had to do with that. She received a report. So we realized that these these air conditioners need to be done. So we have to have somebody come out to do give us a cost of what it's going to it's going to take to replace these. And that's what we're asking for tonight. So
this is more of a necessity than it is a you know just wanting to do this and it has nothing to do with the grant for the library. The library was funded. Um, we've heard through the years, you know, we had all these different change orders and a lot of the change orders and a lot of the additions to the library building
wasn't just the library was. So, what we got to remember is that 10 Rooney belongs to the township of West Orange. The library occupies a space. Um, most of the uh the first floor and a part a portion of the lower floor and then we
have another tenant up on the second floor. And when we started redoing that project, a lot of monies that weren't included in the grant, what we realized was accessibility issues such as the elevators. We realized that there was problems with the um water system, the
gas system. New Jersey American water would not allow us to get a CO without upgrading the water system. So, there was unanticipated costs that that weren't planned when they they originally did this whole project. That was long before I got involved in and
several others. And so those were the extra costs. Some of the other costs we and we've presented to the council before how much what we think we need there cuz it's there was a uh five steps that we looked at in five phases of com of upgrading this building and that included um the accessibility outside
with handicap access. That included the air conditioning system. that included replacing all the windows in the building and uh upgrading to the um um intercore, you know, the appliances such as the bathrooms and things of that
nature. So, there's a lot of things that have to go on with that building and its phases and its cost. So, this is one of the next steps that we're looking to do and we need we need to replace those air conditions. This is not you I know you're you're you're big on wants and needs. This is this is a need. This is
not a want. This is an absolute need. Um, and we have a tenant that's paying us good money and we need to we need to improve this property because um, we are going to be in discussions with releasing with them and um, in order to
release and consider having a release, we need to make some of these improvements to the project. So, and we we've been in contact with our our tenant and we've had some discussions with him and um and that's about as far as I'm going to talk about the discussions with them because it's there's some things that I'm not Yeah.
Yeah. the negotiations and there's some things I just won't speak about with the tenant about the tenant um themselves. >> I have also been involved. >> Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Samoer was involved with this too. So, this is something that this is definitely a need, not a want.
>> Understood. um regarding the the signage. So this went back to 2021. There was um I can explain it now to you in the sense of this was a settlement agreement that was was discussed in 2021 and then back in
24 we went to uh put these signs in and then the there was um some challenges with getting the signs because um the board of the library was in a process of redesigning their logos and things of that nature. It literally took us two
years to get this this thing uh done. um in our discussions and looking through the paperwork and everything else, I I would actually was going to tell you tonight that we can uh we should pull this tonight, this bill, because uh I I just spoke to Mr. Samorero tonight and Mr. Diniac and and even Mr. Trink
because this was part of it. We just want to make sure that everything we were discussing about how this money that we were um we settled with the the u the site the the the Clarion I guess it's Clarion the person the people that we we're in the negotiations with. We
just want to make sure that um everything we have is correct. So we're going to we're actually going to pull that for tonight. It wasn't paid. I know there was a question there was a check that was actually cut to if it was approved that it would have been sent but because it was pulled that check was voided. So, we did not pay the the
company KCG that they're not paid. So, or KGC. Um, so they're not paid. So, so that's where we're at with that right now. >> Okay. >> Very good. Okay. Did you want to get us started off? >> Thank you everyone for coming out this
evening. Thank you to those who are on Zoom. Um, as a brief response to several of the questions, uh, thank you, uh, Mr. Goldman for your questions. Many of those um are and have been addressed by the
administration, but as you know, I'm looking forward to the extension of the cannabis uh hours of operation um budget not being finalized and hopefully we can get beyond um having a third quarter um
estimated tax uh bill and um I sent and prepared just a few questions um to the administration that I have not emailed yet. Um, but I do think it is concerning and we do need to um figure out how we can do better as a municipality. We did
receive notice um that our budget is late um and a request to know that when it was going to be approved. Um as far as parking on Pilllet is concerned, um Miss Bernett, Miss Fields Murphy, um thank you for your continued advocacy in
your neighborhood. Um, but I think what you clearly um have um experienced is that the council can only do so much and unfortunately the parking uh situation is a policy initiative from the
administration. Um so we're here, we're continuing to advocate. We're continuing to support your needs. We acknowledge and recognize that permit parking is the way to go on a pilot program, but as you have just heard, um there are still some concerns and enforcement is an issue.
Doesn't mean it can't happen. I I I haven't been here for 17 years. So, um it's just very disappointing that government takes so long to do some of the things that it it has the capacity to do much much quicker. Um I say that
to say that today um unfortunately had to call to help a resident um with an issue in her basement and thankfully the fire department was able to come immediately and support those needs. So again in e situations um government does
respond much quicker and then sometimes again um it does not. Um, what I think the most important thing that I heard all of you say today, not suggesting that it hasn't been said before, but what is the standard and how are the decisions made? And if we can identify
and determine why the decisions have been made in other locations and aren't being made here, um, then perhaps we can close that gap. Outside of that, really, you know, the mayor, the administration has to make that decision. we've
continued to advocate and we're continuing to advocate on your behalf. Um and and at least you have the majority of the council um suggesting that we should move forward with a pilot program. So again, apologies and hopefully there will be some relief during the summer and a and a plan put
in place so that this does not continue when school starts back in September. um executive session. Um certainly those are administrative and legal issues. Um and I think the administration has indicated that minutes um would be
available uh for executive sessions where the information has been resolved. Um, and I'm certain that our clerk, um, who is probably more overwhelmed than, um, anyone else or or just as overwhelmed, should I, shall I say, um,
as every other department, will get to those, um, minutes as, as soon as she possibly and humanly can. Sewer fees obviously still a concern. Um and hopefully we will be able to um address
those fees and the issues and get to a uh bathroom model and usage model um as indicated by the administration. Again, a long time coming discussion three years ago when the transition was initially made. Um and then uh thank you
uh Mr. Cohen for speaking to the um puppy mill pet store issues and I will look to further discussion from my colleagues. Um wanted to also just thank you Justin for attending and others uh who may not be in the room but certainly
may be watching if not now at some point later into into uh the future. um the Junth events this weekend on Friday, Saturday and Sunday um on Saturday and Sunday from basically 11:00 a.m. to 10
p.m. And again similarly on Sunday were um nothing short of stellar um engaging conversation information um to a community that supports the arts. Thank you to all of the community partners uh to the restaurants that opened up their
spaces um and allowed us to uh host different events there. Thank you for your continued and unwavering support. Um, and again shouting out Natasha Gallup and all the members of the Junth committee for your commitment and dedication to making sure that we
celebrate uh that cultural uh federal holiday in our community um as it was celebrated in other communities, neighboring communities around us um with flag raisings and community events. Uh so thank you for that. And
uh Miss Bennett had five questions regarding the sewer fees that I caught and took note of 1, three, four, and five. I was not able to capture number two. Um so if you could, Miss Bennett, please make sure um you email those to
us so that we can make sure the administration um gets those answers to you. And you know, unfortunately, I think that's outside of our purview and would be an administrative response. Um, but if I'm mistaken, I'm certainly happy to make sure those questions are
answered. I think the only other uh statement or concern that was um raised is the sound ordinance and again um would uh discuss that under new business if necessary and the pleasure of my
colleagues. Thank you everyone for coming out and um thank you uh for your comments and concerns. Thank you council president. >> Thank you Councilwoman Ruden. >> Sure. Um, one thing I'd like to clarify. Um, Justin asked about the sign. The
sign was on the bill list at the last council meeting and it was stated that it was going to be paid for by an old bonding. That didn't end up to be the case. The um the bill was p pulled because it was supposed to have been
paid for by Essex Green LLC, which is the Clarion um partners. We were supposed to have gotten $75,000 in November 23rd, 2021. We never got it.
And that's what was supposed to be paying for the signs. So, when I asked to pull that bill, it was revealed that we never got the $75,000 and that's what will end up paying for
this sign. So, I just wanted to point that out. Um, I'm not sure that that the messaging was really on point on this, which is that we never got $75,000 and I'd like to understand why this
administration did not go after a settlement um to pay for this and then it was put on the bill list and we were going to end up paying for it. Um, so that's that's the real um story behind behind the sign. Um, some outrageous
things I heard tonight. Um, I'm really not clear why the planning director would tell a resident to come and speak to the council on an issue that is clearly within her expertise, not our
expertise. When buildings are going to be demolished, they require a permit. And if there is no permit, no construction should start. I'd like to ask that this administration take this
resident's concerns very seriously and let us know as a council and let this resident know really immediately whether or not a stop order should be um issued. When I hear that water was hit and that
a duck pond was created, that's outrageous. And that is something that our department head should know whether or not, you know, a permit is proper to be to be issued or not. And and and that
is the department that issues the stop order. So I'm I'm requesting tonight that we get an answer by tomorrow on why this is happening and whether or not this can be stopped. Um in terms of um the there were some
issues that uh that Mr. Panula raised in in regard to a sign uh a um traffic traffic uh light that m is being proposed um at Crestridge which is very close to another traffic light and really should never even be coming to
our plan planning board. But I I certainly hope that this time the planning board um takes our own home rule ordinances seriously and s and enforces our steep slope ordinance and
enforces our tree ordinance because that is their job to support and not to grant variances to things that protect our township. Um Mr. Con, thank you so much for coming and and advocating for um the
pet store ordinance. Um the ban against puppy mills. I asked for that to be put on new matters. I know some may think that that is a feel-good measure. That is not a feel-good measure. We are in the in a point in time in West Orange
where our businesses are rapidly building particularly in some sections and we can be proactive by saying this is not welcome in West Orange just like it's not welcome in 155 other municipalities in West Orange. So, I hope that my colleagues will see that
there is real value in moving forward on on making a statement about um animal kindness. Uh the sewer fees, you know, it's it's just been a a cover for adding more taxes to our
budget. It's been very clear that it's gone into our general fund and our prior council saw it as an easy way to say, "Hey, we're not raising the municipal taxes 16%. We're just going to offset it by giving you huge sewer fees." And
that's a real problem. Um, it's not something that we can address as a council, but I would I would ask that this be um corrected and that there be a proper utility fund set up for the sewer
for the sewers. Um, in terms of of um the parking um below Rollinsson, we have at least three people on this council who have asked strongly for
parking permits to be issued. I don't think that this is anymore an issue of waiting for the mayor to take a step on this. The mayor has had an opportunity for the past three years to
to move on this and has not. I would like to request Mr. Samero and I will discuss it with the col with our with my colleagues um under new matters and I'd like to add this under new matters that we put forth a resolution that will be on the next agenda that mandates that
parking permits will be issued to this area or an ordinance. um and figure out the steps on how to make this happen. Um we don't need a pilot on PEOT. We need to just get this
through. And if the council can vote with three votes and hope that we will not get it vetoed by the mayor, then we can actually see some progress this year. Um as far as um Mr. Mr. Kennedy and the
um noise ordinance. Um I guess um you haven't been aware of all of the noise that our green west orange has made in regard to trying to bring a sane quiet West Orange especially during this
summer time. I'm at home. I'm working at home also. I hear the blowers from the morning until the evening. It's cerse um and truly what are they blowing in the summer? There are no leaves. They're blowing
dirt or grass. This is there there is a need to go back to a sane way of managing our lawns. Um so, you know, I I just want him to know that there has been a tremendous movement um to bring
quiet to this town. We had an ordinance that came to us last year. It was one of the first things that this council dealt with when I came on board and unfortunately one of my colleagues changed her vote and reversed this so
that we do not have um quiet during the summer. We need to phase this in. This town deserves to have quiet. Um, and the landscapers are doing this in every other municipality around us and they can certainly do it
in West Orange as well. Um, as far as um, speaking about the parking in executive session, is that something that we can discuss publicly now? That's that's my question.
What what is why can't we discuss parking right now instead of moving that >> parking permits? >> The parking permits. >> Well, I had a dis I my concern I had articulated that I think it's got to be in ordinance
>> and uh that I think that there has to be enforcement provisions. I'm going to have to coordinate with other departments obviously to figure out what that language would be. But that was what my concern was. >> So, let's do it. I mean, I don't know
what more there is to talk about in in um executive session, but I think that that you can hear that there are at least three votes here that will support >> well it it's an ordinance and according to our bylaws, I think that we have have to have direction from majority of the
council to do so. So, assuming that and I think that we'll get that. So assuming that then we'll we'll commence drafting but but understand it's I have to coordinate obviously the police department uh and I don't know what else I'll know
as I start so we'll work on >> okay and just on a final note on the HVAC in the library I just think that this points to a um decision that was made under the Paresi administration um to swap drop our library to an old
building. Tonight I heard that, you know, it actually described as an old building, 1971. And as a result of this decision, we are now saddled with expenses for our tenant. I think that all of the costs that we have put into the library with
all of the costs that we've put in and by the way there were never any phase one phase two discussions in terms of the library that we could have had a brand new library in the downtown area. Thank you very much, Council President. >> Thank you, Councilman Koviaak.
>> Uh thank you. And I would just add that not only have we spent millions of dollars on that property, we're in the process of spending millions of dollars more to bring that back up. I was shocked one day I was looking at the uh property listing for that building and
it was identified as a class C building in in the listing. And uh everything that's happened since then reflects that we basically bought a pig in a poke and it is it is going to be uh
hurting us financially for for years on the parking permits. I recall that Mr. Moraldo said after the the meeting earlier this year when they proposed a making several one-way streets in a
pilot program and it was soundly rejected by the residents who were there at the meeting that he would bring us a new plan. And so I just want to ask uh where's the plan? What's the timeline? Uh when are we going to see it? We we've
got to move forward on this. Uh Mr. Surreal, correct me if I'm wrong, but under our form of government, uh, the mayor's administration has to present a project like this to the council for review for review and to approve any
enabling legislation. But until then, we can't do much more than advocate or and ask questions and and empathize. And uh, I I agree with you. I I don't think a resolution is is the way to go here. And
uh I just found out that there was a resolution tonight. So I'm a little surprised at that, but I really would like more transparency on that. >> I just want to answer because everybody seems to be talking about this. So you and I had a conversation the other day. I just want to follow up on the >> No, that's fine. I've got the floor. You
>> asked No, I asked her. I did ask. I'm sorry. C I point. I'm sorry. >> As long as Councilman Kakovia yield. >> Okay. So, we did have a discussion the other day about that and we were bringing a resolution to I I sent it to Mr. Samaro right after the last meeting. I discussed it with director Carbalo,
the police chief, the mayor. Um, so we did do it and we put the resolution together because under the direction of the council, we wanted to have a pilot program. So, we started putting it together. It was worked on the very next day. So, we did start doing that because based on the the um the the will of the
uh the people coming up here. So, we started working on it. um sent to Mr. Samero and his that the reason we wanted to go to executive session tonight is so that we can have that discussion with you whether it be a resolution or an ordinance is now becoming a public
conversation which is fine but we u we put that together and and it included the permits and um the question became from from legal is that how is this going to be enforceable on the resolution if it's if it is in fact a
pilot program. So, that's where we're at right now. That's what was going to be our discussion. We probably don't even have to discuss much more of that tonight, but we did put it together. We did we did create it. You and I did have a conversation, I think last Thursday or Friday. I did discuss that we were putting it there. So, we're going to bring it forward for the council's
consideration, but based on legal advice, we decided not to put it forward tonight because we were going to try and get this on um at least either tonight or for the July 7th meeting. and um but it appears that it's probably not going to it would be doomed to fail if we do
it that way and we're not going to do things twice. So we're we're trying to put the steps right. So that's where we've had this conversation and that's why it was in fact placed on executive session so we could bring you up to date with that. So um and I will tell you that it's still the position of the administration and the police department
and others that we feel that this permit is not going to be successful. We want that for the record, but we're putting it forward anyway. So, we're not we're going to we we heard you. We listened to you. We said we'd put it forward. So, we'll put it forward. So, if we want to
go through the exercise of an ordinance, that's that's what we'll do. >> But it's but it's at to be has to we're we're we're not supportive of it just based on what we did. But but that doesn't mean it can't get done. Doesn't mean that we won't put it on. And I'm I'm just putting it on the record that we're not in favor of it. So, so when it
does if it if it and and I and the conversation you and I did have, I said if it if it's successful, we'll be the first ones to say, "Hey, we were wrong and okay, it was there, but you know, we're just not confident in that that it will work." And that's and that's our concern. That's why we don't want to put other people who live in that area in a
position that it could become a problem. But we're going to move forward based on the recommendation of the council and then we're going to bring it to you. So, that's what we're going to do. >> On every other street, it's an ordinance, right? Yeah. Well, we our conversations last time was talking about if we if nobody wanted to do the
pilot with the one way. So, we said we'll do a pilot the other way. So, we said, "Okay." So, now we're going to try it that way, but based on advice of legal, that's why we're we're we'll go for the ordinance now. And then we we can present it. But, >> and just for the record, I understand why the idea of a resolution was floated
out because it's going to be temporary. And and I'm sure that the thought was, well then why would we want to put something on the books? Uh but obviously my thought I articulated it isn't going to mean anything without there being an enforcement provision and
we can't have enforcement without being an ordinance. Uh and I went and I had a vacation. So I do apologize not being in a position to do it this evening, but I was away on vacation. I came back just a few days ago. So that's and I looked at it and I at least commented on it. You
you and I had discussed it when I came back. >> Okay, great. >> Council Oh, did you >> Councilman Codia, >> I hope that answers your question, Councilman. I just didn't >> Can I >> Yes. No, you you you've made it very clear that you you think the right way to go is the oneway streets and uh not
this way, but >> you know, that's apparently what the what the people want. >> I'm sorry. Did do you want to let someone else speak because I have not finished my response. >> Go ahead, Councilwoman. We'll come back to councilwoman. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Great. On the sewer fee. So I believe the CFO has said that he is conducting an analysis of the allocation of that revenue from the sewer fee. Uh just to put things in perspective and I think this is important. I started
complaining about the sewer fee more than a decade ago. And at the time, those of you who were paying attention knew me often as 4 to1 Joe because I was often outvoted 4:1 on a lot of important votes. And I was
unable to persuade the council, my council colleagues at the time and the administration that this was not the right way to go. And that was when the fee that was being collected was probably 15%
of what it is now. With all due respect to how the charges are going to be allocated through the new software, this is not a tech problem. This is a $9 million black hole
that will blow up this town if we took it away precipitously. It's almost 10% of our budget and it's not news. It's been around for a long time and it's grown and grown until it's now $9 million and it is part
of the financial foundation of the township. And to knock this down, it will quickly will most likely raise property taxes skyhigh and result in serious cuts in operations and services and employee uh employment. It's one of
the many, many, many daunting financial challenges the municipality is facing and the council is trying to address. So, whatever we do, we need to provide transparency on it and we need to put together a plan to work this down
because it, in my opinion, and I've been saying this for more than a decade, it is a tax by another name and it should not be there, but it is. and we can't just ignore it on uh on the Ridgeway
public comment tonight. I didn't think after I'm in my 12th year on the council I could be shocked anymore, but I am by this these allegations. And I call them allegations because I don't know whether they're proven or not. But I agree with my
colleague sitting next door to next to me that this is just outrageous if it's true. And I thank Mr. Russo for bringing it to our attention. And I ask that you please provide your documentation to the to the council, including any communications that you've had with the
township uh by way of uh the email address council. Orange.org. And I asked Mr. uh SMaldo to provide all publicly available information about this property uh that is held by the township and get it to council as soon
as possible uh including the planning board application and any other related materials including any enforcement or any uh resident complaints about this. This is just this is
like Councilwoman Ruden said outrageous. It's just if it's true, it's it's uh it really needs to be looked into. This is not the way this is not the way our township is supposed to operate. On the library side, uh again, kudos to
Councilwoman Ruden for discovering this. This whole incident goes back to 2021 when there was a settlement agreement of the tax appeals that Clarion had filed for Essex Green and the township had uh
counterfiled. The township wanted to increase the assessment. Claren wanted to decrease the assessment and as part of the settlement, they basically uh uh agreed for the uh the
year coming in that 2021 agreement to drop the assessment of the property by $10 million, which of course saved them substantial amount of money. But part of that was the $75,000
uh settlement for the library signs. Then comes 2025. This is in the material some of the materials we got. In 2025, apparently our previous town attorney finally got around to
drafting a settlement about the $75,000 and it was he asked that it be put on the agenda for a May meeting. Now, I was council president at the time. I probably should have known about this. I had no idea that it was there. it didn't show up on the agenda and it didn't show
up on the agenda for the next meeting and then all of a sudden we get this bill here. So there there should be a a lot less complexity and a lot more transparency on whatever has happened here. So we need a full
accounting. Uh the 2021 documents that I dug up, they're up on the township website. I'll uh I'll put some links up on Facebook if anybody wants to uh uh take a look at them. Uh and then the the I also request the same
information on the Crestmont uh uh application about this stoplight because again as Councilwoman Ruden points out there's there's already a light there. uh can't be more than 200 ft uh from the
existing light to uh where Oval comes into um Eagle Rock Avenue. So, I really would like to know more about this uh if I could because even though it's a planning board application, we already heard from Mr. Panulo about
the substantial costs that may be uh coming to the council. So, I'd like to get all of this material uh and know more about it and provide more transparency um on it. Uh there's a lot more to talk about, but
not from me. Thank you, Council President. >> Okay. You have a question from my mouth trying to stay. >> Thank you, Council President. >> Mr. Councilwoman, >> my question was simply if we made this
an ordinance for the pilot program, can you do a temporary ordinance? If it's a pilot program, can you date that so that it would expire? >> Yes, it it would be known as what's a sunset provision? >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. It looks like my
colleagues have exhausted the library. I have had a a seat on that that debacle for decades when I sat out there in your seat. The only thing that rivals that is the affordable housing debacle. So, I'm not going to say too
much more about the library other than uh thank you for bringing all of the issues out as clearly as you did to my colleagues. Um Mr. Goldsman had asked about the rate increase on the Essex
Bell's animal uh shelter. Um 166 >> 174 >> 174 now we change. Okay. Could you just talk about that Mr. Smearaldo? Um >> the increase in the >> Yeah, it was it wasn't that significant
of an increase I believe, but it was um and I forgive me. It was about $2, I believe he said, if I'm correct in Mr. Goldman here. >> Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't see it. >> $2. >> $2. I I don't know the answer is for the $2. Honestly,
>> I I could just indicate that when that agreement was brought for my review, uh I had talked to to it was Mike, right? I >> and uh I had just indicated that you are
we looking at any increases and >> then then he increased I think it was two or three different charges. Uh one was like a kenneling charge. >> I saw that >> maybe an hourly rate charge. So, uh, it was just to try to bring it up. I'm not
sure what mathematical equation that he did if it was related to CPI or anything like that or just what he felt was the appropriate. >> He's available if we're if we pull it later. >> Okay. Mr. >> Yeah. And I just I I just didn't see any out clause. Is there a clause on that if
we want to cancel that agreement within 30 60 days? >> An out clause to get out of the agreement. Uh I think that there is uh and and I I I could pull it out. I usually you end up having uh a termination provision with I think 60
days notice if I recall correctly. >> Yeah, I didn't see it there. That's why I wanted to know. Yeah, that's important. Yes, that's very important to me. >> What resolution number was that? Do we know? >> 17426. >> 174.
>> Yeah, we changed it. 17426. wait to lead it to discussion on that because I have some additional questions. >> Okay. I I I >> So, he'll look look it up and give us the answer. >> We're gonna I'll I'll let the director know that we're going to be calling him. So, he he said it'd be readily available to answer your questions.
>> Okay. Great. Thank you. And the budget adoption. We need to do better. There's nothing more to say about that. It's ridiculous that we get these budgets so late. Um, Miss Bernett and Miss Fields Murphy, 17 years. Enough is enough. We
should be embarrassed. We really should be embarrassed. Politics has obviously prevailed here and there is absolutely no excuse why we should not do this for you now. why an ordinance should not be created
whether you know whatever the issues are related to enforcement we enforce it on every other street so I don't see why we can't enforce it on your streets something is better than nothing and I I really think we're going to move forward
on this I feel very positive tonight and I'm sorry you've had to come out over and over again for decades it's not fair Um, Michaela, thank you for always your very astute questions. We appreciate all of
them and we will get those answers for you. Uh, Claire, the same. Uh, Luke, since I sit on the planning board, I really can't talk about any of those issues. I don't know why you were not directed by Miss Gary Adams to come to the planning board because that's
exactly where we're here. >> That's what he That's where he was. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, but that that is really the place to do that. And for the administration, who is responsible for the stop work order? Is it Miss Gary Adams or one of
her staff? >> No, it depends on what the issue is. It it if it's the if it's construction, it's the it's uh the construction department, the construction officials. I already have a a call out to him. >> Okay. Because that needs to be resolved like ASAP.
Um, and really that's really about it. um the um the puppy mills. Thank you for coming and enlightening us about the puppy mills and we will talk about that in a little while. >> Council president paragraph number 18
provides a 60-day >> okay >> option determination. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. Okay. And that I'm going to include my public home. Right. Are we going into executive session now or >> No, I would not recommend because the
planning board's meeting of Miss McGovern is she said she'd be available about 9:30. So, we could maybe go to our >> maybe just >> agenda items. >> Let's do the agenda and pull the >> gun that we But we got about till about 9:30 to get to that. >> We were hoping to be done by 9:30.
>> We were too. >> Okay, Madam Clerk. Well, if you have to see what we can also executive session for some other stuff, too, but I mean we want to get through the >> I may be able to to push it along without waiting. So, >> thank you. Thank you. All right. Okay,
Madam Clerk. >> Let's Okay, so consent agenda, approval of minutes of previous meeting, none. Report of township officers, none. Uh, reading of petitions and communications and bids. Rebid for Benson's Pond
Walkway improvements. >> Is there consent? >> Bill list. Are there any questions on the bill list? >> Yes. Um, I I know that some of my questions were answered prior to this meeting, but I would still like to
request that we pull Blow and Blau and Bourne Null and Kenyon's bills. Um that's 1 1 91074 and 1 91077. The reason why I am requesting these bills be pulled is because there has
been absolutely no information provided by these professionals on what type of work they're doing. It's just a monthly fee that we're getting and they are in charge of um residential um tax revalves and we don't know where
they are. There's no record for the public to see. There's no record for us and frankly there's just no oversight. So I know that that Blow and Blau was contacted and they are now going to be providing us that information. I believe that they have provided it retroactively
to the purchasing agent, but I believe that the um township um governing body and the public should see what work is being done by these professionals. Um, I'd also like to question once again and pull bill 191963
for Peter De Archie. I question why we are paying a private landscaper to um mow or blow the lawns on three private properties. And even though this is a very small bill, it seems to be a
regular bill. And um I wonder why our public works department can't be providing this service and saving our taxpayers money. I'd also like to pull um bill number 190789
um regarding AT&T phone bill. Um the phone bill has been reduced um since I've been on council 50% but I went over it again. every single one and found $1,000 worth of
phones um and iPads, etc. that have zero zero usage. Not one uh small amount of of data, but zero. So, for that reason, I
would really like to have that reviewed. Maybe we can bring our bill down to 4,000 a month from what it originally was um 10,000. Um, and I that's it in terms of of polling bills. Do we have to vote on each one?
>> I also just one other thing I would just like to ask and I don't think there's anybody who can really answer this to me, but this month we had a $65,000 overtime charge in the fire department. And um I would just like to really
understand why why $65,000 in overtime in one month. What what happened? >> I I can't explain without looking at it, but I could probably guess that we had recent retirements. We have minimal staffings. U we just swore in five new
firefighters tonight to add to the to the um the staff. um when you're down five people u or more um actually we we were I think we're and we're in the process now of of I think another five or six firefighters for the fall because
we have retirement. So when you have minimal staffing issues that's where the um where the overtime comes plus there's contractual obligations through the time off whether it be comp time, vacation time, personal days or whatever other time that are associated with their
contracts. So, um, that's where that comes from. And we do it we do a, uh, we we do our best to try and replace those positions. But you got to remember, whether it's a firefighter, which is a shorter period of time to get onto the streets than a police officer, you're still talking about 16 weeks for a
firefighter just to get out of the academy. And with the EMT, and a police officer is about 24 months to get out of the the academy. And um and then we have to put them on the on out on onto the operations and and help with the reduction of staffing levels, minimal
staffing and and and the fire department has a minimal staffing of 17 firefighters every every day, every time because we have to run our our engines, our trucks, and and the ambulances to to serve the public. you know, the the Township of West Orange Fire Department,
which I I'm a little bit intimate with, is that it's one of the busiest fire departments in the state of New Jersey, and we we average somewhere around 8,000 calls a year. You know, that's that's pretty much almost one every hour call almost every hour, hour and 15 minutes. So, you
know, it's a service that we provide to the town. So, and that's where that's the operations that we've we've had and through the years, we've kept it at 17. It's been 17 uh person minimal, firefighter minimal for got to be at
least 25 years or more. So, >> Councilwoman 1 19074. Can you tell me who that was for and the amount? >> 1 190 I'm sorry. 1 19074. >> Was that I I didn't hold
>> and blow. Oh, blow and blow 91074. >> Oh, 191, sorry. >> Okay. And the amount >> is 6,000. >> Okay. And then the next one was >> 191077
Bourne Null and Kenyon >> and that's 3250. >> Okay. And then the next one 91963. 1 191963 for Peter Di Archie is $340. >> Okay.
>> For mowing three different lawns, >> right? And the next one was the AT&T, >> right? 1 190789. >> Okay. >> For $5,6.72. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Um, so we have to uh I have
to have a motion on the 191074, the Blau bill for $6,000. Is there a motion to pull? I make a motion to pull. >> I'll second. >> Okay, please. >> Uh, >> if it's time for discussion, I just want
to just make a point here, which is that we do not need to withhold their bills in order to get their the their performance records. I I agree with Councilwoman Ruden that we should have those performance records, but there's no real reason not to, particularly
because these we we have contracts with these guys uh for what they're supposed to do and uh they're being paid this on a monthly basis, but we also should get all of their performance records. I I'd be surprised if you're they're not
already providing it at least to Mr. sorero. Uh because we got to know what's going on with the tax appeal. >> Uh I I verified that the uh the amount they charge was in accordance with what
their contract was. That was what their uh their stipen was. Uh I I I do understand what the concern is and I and I do agree with you Councilman that we we certainly can make the payment. I
mean they they when I I'm going to talk in generality because I never analyzed the expense. Uh but I would surmise that typically when you had a professional that was familiar with what the workload was and then they
agreed to do something for a fixed speed uh that it's to the township's benefit. So, uh, perhaps I I think it would be fair to pay their bill, but then verify, you
know, if you want to, uh, take a look at what the the work that they did during that period of time, you could get that, you know, after the fact. >> So, are you advising that since it's contractual, we should pay it? >> I I I I think so. I mean, look, the the the reality is there's nothing in the
contract that requires them to provide itemized services. >> Okay. Um and uh we're contractually obligated to make payment. So that that would be the right thing to do. >> Okay. >> Uh but you know I I I don't know what
communication took place with Blau and Blau with respect to uh them agreeing to provide information. I I wasn't even aware that so to the to piggyback on that. So yes, I I'm I'm in agreement to
I this is a contract. um this is what we agreed to pay with them, but I'm also in agreement and I I spoke to the purchasing agent today that they that we should have more accountability as to what they're doing. They're getting paid that money per month. Um and whatever it is, but so we we did communicate with
them today. Um I believe it was blow and blow is sent over a detailed sheet um from January till present and we're waiting for born null, I believe. But we should have those answers for you tomorrow. But we are going to provide them to you. I I I I don't disagree with
this and I think we should be doing that. >> Okay. Council, >> I wanted to actually I think Councilwoman Ruden had her hand up before me, so I don't want to go for her if she still wants ahead. >> Yeah, I know. I just wanted to say that that this is not a stipend. Um this is
$6,000 a month. Um, and I think that a proper invoiced bill is and requesting it in advance is sending a message. And that for that reason, especially since Bourne, null um, and Kenyan has not
provided any information that it does send a message. >> What is that? Another law firm? >> It's for the >> Oh. Oh, that was the one for the residential. >> Yeah. On one for residential, one's for commercial. >> Right. And and were they both on a a set contractual?
>> They both are on a set contractual, but they are are not providing any information of what they're doing. >> Well, I understand what your concern. So, I'm not saying that it's it it's not warranted.
They I'm trying to figure out how I how I would phrase this. when you end up establishing, you're not going to be billing on an hourly basis, but you you end up figuring out what your set fee is going to be. Uh, and then you divide it
by 12 and that's what the monthly fee is going to be set. You're you're right. It wasn't a stipen, but it's a fee. Uh, the presumption is is that some months you're going to be below that and some months you're going to be above it. So,
as long as you're not looking for the bill to offset and affect what our monthly obligation is, uh, I don't fault you for for asking for that information. And if they're willing to give it, and
and and they should. I I maybe there's an R the the RPC may require them to give it. I I think it it probably does. Um, but we're still obligated to make that payment regardless what that particular month's
invoices are. So, I would suggest that we just uh make that a requirement that they give us the monthly invoices to show what the work that was done that particular month. Uh, but not necessarily hold it up. Uh,
it's my suggestion. I I and it's based upon the contract. That's what I would recommend. Uh but obviously the governing body makes the decision. >> Councilman Kokovia, >> I just want to raise another issue which is that some of these contracts have an additional payment clause that's
triggered by uh a a maximum of what of maximum of cases that are handled during the contract year. And so we really need to pay attention to that because as they move up in the number of of uh of appeals cases they're handling, then
we'll know what maybe our our cash flow demands might be in the future if they've gotten if they passed over the maximum. So >> these are all very good points. Um, we uh I I extended and and as I think
everyone will recall, I beefed up what the contracts were from what they were before. Uh, and in hindsight, I think that those would have been great additions for me to include. And I think that uh at the end of this year, we could include reporting requirements as part of the contract. Makes good sense.
>> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. So, are we going to vote? >> Sure. >> Councilman Kroviaak. No. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> No. >> Council President Scarpa. >> No. >> Okay. The motion fails.
>> Uh the next one is hold on second. Uh 1 191077 born null Kenyon for 3250. Is there a motion to pull? >> Yes, I make a motion to pull. And I just want to add that no business would pay a bill without understanding what the what
was what the value is and what they're getting. And that's exactly what we're doing here. We're paying a bill without knowing at all what we're getting. And in this case um born null and Kenyon have not responded at all to the
outreach um to provide this information. >> So that was just today they reached out to him. But again, this is the same discussion that Mr. Summer said. We're we reached out to them. So hopefully we'll have that answer tomorrow and if not we can but the it's still the contract and so
>> there's no second. Can we move on? >> Well, I didn't call for a second yet. >> Oh, hold on. Councilman Kovic. >> Yeah, I I was waiting for a second. So, is there >> If there's not a second, I'm not going to speak. >> Okay, there is no second. The motion dies. >> Um Oh, Councilman, did you want to say
something now or No. Uh I I was just going to say uh I disagree with uh my colleague. These guys are charged under the contract with handling all of our commercial tax appeals, property tax appeals, and all of our residential
property tax appeals. So we are getting those two issues covered through these contracts. If what she's saying we don't have the detail of what they're doing, I agree with her and hopefully we will get that sooner rather than later because these are one-year contracts and if they don't want to if they don't want to play
ball with us, then they won't be our our vendors going forward. >> Okay. 191963. I'm sorry, I still didn't get the person's name. >> Peter de Archie. >> Yeah. And I I'd like to I'd like to
understand why the DPW is not providing this service and saving the taxpayers. >> This is a service that's um that Miss Adams uh does with her property maintenance. I actually reached out to to see um I think this is for three cuts. This is the these are the
properties where we have that we receive complaints about where property maintenance is not being addressed. We send them out. It's on a on a need basis. Uh we just haven't done it with the the with the DPW. it doesn't mean we can't look at it. But as of right now, this is I know that's where it's from.
Actually, she's uh I think she may be responding back to me. So, we'll see what she says. But, um that's what this is. I know it's for three cuts or three property maintenance issues. Um and if you give me a moment, um but that's that's where it's come from. I know that's what the what it's
for. I just >> I I know what it's for. And I have raised this issue in the past that this is this ends up being several thousand dollars as this goes on. So that's why I'd like to request that this be done by the DPW.
>> Councilmania, >> I was just going to say if if I understand what's going on here, we have an ordinance that allows us to perform these services and then file a lean >> I believe >> or something similar against that. So we will get this money back. Yeah, I
believe that's what it is. And that's what I'm I I'm just waiting for u the director to get back to me. She's typing back and I I believe you're correct, too. I think it's added to the lean to the property. We just send them out. We once we once we close, we get the money back. So, it must be what she's typing
because it's typing, but I haven't received. >> Can't these these properties also be fined? >> We don't know that they aren't. >> We don't know. We we don't know. Yeah, we would if if they're a lot of times these these properties are also bankowned and we we have to go after
that. So, um let's move on one sec. >> In other words, they're foreclosures. They're foreclosures that the now the bank has now owns. >> They're notorious. They're notorious terrible property managers. >> So, it said this fund was set up several years ago and we get the money back when
the house sells. We're in court. just happened with and I'm not going to list the property out loud here, but she just said there's another property that we just did this morning. >> This is common municipal practice when there's a bank owned property happens in every municipality.
>> Okay, we can move on. >> Is there a motion to pull that bill? >> There was already a motion. It just wasn't a second. >> All right, seeing none, we'll move on. 1 190789, the AT&T phone bill.
Is there a motion to pull? >> Yes. I I will second this motion. >> Okay. Any discussion? >> Could I could I just ask a quick question on this on on an AT&T bill? I assume it's uh it's cellular or and hot
points. Uh do we get in any trouble? Are we assessed fees if we don't pay the bill? Because again, we can get the bill, we can get the information, we can analyze the heck out of it. No, they could just shut us off. >> I'm sorry. >> They could just shut us off. They They have done that before. We have reduced
the bills. We looked at the bills. They could just shut us off if we don't pay lack of payment. So, um I don't know where we're at in the standard, you know, how how far off we haven't paid. I'm sure there's some leeway like in any other bill, but they they they have set us shut off notices before when we
haven't paid them in the past. So, >> yeah, I'm with Councilwoman Ruden. I don't think we should. We can look at we can look at some of these uh these these different ones, but you got to remember some of these cradle points and things of that nature are are police based and it may not be the car is not used and things that nature. So there's there's
some of those there. So we have um >> and we will look at them >> if if I could I didn't get a chance to finish. I I agree that we shouldn't pay anything that uh we we shouldn't we shouldn't waste money. But the the point I was making is if we not pay the bill
and we incur either the cost of >> penalties >> fixing it or late fees, I I I want to avoid that. So maybe we could just find out what the what the timeline is >> and what we could do with some of them if if some of them haven't been used but they're required for whatever various reason, you know, we have to just do
another audit and and and Mr. you know, our IT director, it he does review them from time to time. Um, you know, we have had a reduction. We'll just have him do another audit and he does it fairly regularly to look at these things. Just that sometimes these things, you know, whatever the case may be. So, we'll
we'll look at it. But you know to say that to not pay it I I we we know that there are some that we we can suspend the accounts because if if for various different reasons uh we can suspend keep the phone number there but suspend it while it's not being used for certain
reasons without getting into specifics especially personnel matters um you know but there's there's other reasons why we can do that. Sure. I was just thinking though that it's not AT&T's fault that uh unless they're screwing up their own,
you know, bill. There's no reason we should hold it against them if we're the ones wasting the money. You know what I'm saying? >> Well, and and the council woman has asked us and we have reviewed it. We have knocked the bills down. So, if we if we can knock more down, we'll do it. So, but I would not suggest that we not
pay this because if we could figure that out, you know, sometimes we have change of personnel and sometimes the names aren't there always with that person or the new person coming in. So, you know, we have to we have to rely on our department heads to sometimes tell us too. So, it's it but they are they're definitely reduced. So, we we'll look at
it again. So, Council Moses, >> thank you. Um I recall during the budget hearings um that Mr. Garcia as well as Chief uh >> Bula both indicated that there were several phone lines that may not be in
use that are necessary um for them to maintain um for several different reasons. So I wanted to um second this motion so that we could have that discussion and I could remind um my colleagues that this was very much discussed um when they presented their
budgets to us and Mr. Garcia assured us that that is something that he does on a regular basis. Um to review the the usages, the phone lines, the computers, the laptops, anything and everything that's under his uh purview as far as it is concerned. >> This is part of the administrative
function. So we have to run the operations every day and if we have if we have issues that have to be addressed, we'll address them. Get over >> understood. But I think we need to pay our bills. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So let's take a vote. Councilman Koviaak. >> No. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> No. >> Council President Scorpa. >> No. >> Okay. The motion fails. >> I would like to request a report on this. I did provide every single phone number and if there was an individual attached to it um to make the job easier
to review. So, I'd like to have that. >> I do. I was going to discuss that in private, but you brought it up. That's a personnel matter and that's not your purview. We've said that time and time again. So, if you want me to tell you that in front of everybody again, I'll tell you again. It's a personal matter. You're not privileged that. >> Okay. First of all, first of all,
>> I got my attorney right here. >> Okay, that's fine. That's fine. >> He'll tell you. He'll back me up and he's our attorney, too. >> First of all, um the the council is the the council's main function is a fiduciary responsibility. And if if um
I'm asking for questions um I'm asking questions on a phone bill, I do have the right to have that information. And your response to me, sir, was just plain rude. >> Well, then I apologize, but it's still a personnel matter.
>> It's not a personnel matter. Administrative function. Yes, it is. >> Then the financial should be doing that function. >> Okay. Duly noted. >> Okay. Can we move on? >> Yes. Resolutions. Um are any resolutions
being pulled this evening? I have a question regarding 16626 I'm sorry to 170 right 426 >> okay >> um and then I also had a question regarding
that's been answered uh 17226 whose phone is going off >> not mine And then regarding 17326 I have questions on all of those. >> Yeah. 2, three, and four. Correct. >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Does anyone have anything they're pulling? >> So, which one? I I I'm not pulling anything, but I do have a few uh follow-up questions on or 167.
>> That's the uh the proposal for the library. Uh >> right, the HVAC. >> So, which one we Because I have both directors available by line. So, who do we want to speak with? I'm sorry. I just >> um >> is 16626.
>> 17426. >> I'm sorry. 17426. So, let's go in order. 167 was first. So, >> that was Director Corbal. >> Oh, director Corbal. >> Yeah. >> Let me see if I can get a hold of her first. >> Director Bonzino says he'll be on in a
minute. Okay. >> I I believe so. Yes. I also have a couple of questions on resolution 173, which is the application for the grant for the uh community forest management plan. >> I'm sorry.
>> Yeah, I put I got Okay. >> Yeah, I put both your initials down. Sorry, which one was anyone pulled? >> No, nothing was pulled. Questions. >> Did you go over again? I'm sorry. >> Uh 167.
>> That was Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. 172. Councilwoman Williams 173. >> Councilwoman Williams and Councilman Koviaak and 174 Councilwoman Williams.
Director Ponzino's on. So, if you wanted to address director Ponzino first. >> Yes. >> Just um again wanted to understand the rationale. Um seems like the $2 increase was very insignificant. So, if you could
just share with us why there was such a nominal increase. And then I was also concerned because we had very extensive discussion at our last council meeting about the um dog park uh and the where where the direction of the dog park. Um,
so I'm just concerned that if we don't know what we're doing with the dog park, if it does become a need to remove it, to relocate it because of redevelopment, um, just does it make sense to have to incur that with the responsibility to
another municipality? So, those were my questions. >> Okay. Just just to clarify, are we talking about the dog park or the animal shelter? >> I'm sorry, the animal we talked about the animal shelter. I apologize. >> Okay, no problem. I just want to make
sure I'm on the same page. Um, yeah, I mean, listen, we it it's in the contract that if if we need to get out, we have to I believe it's 60 days notice uh written notice to the um to the um to the Burrow of Essex Fells.
Um so I I I don't I don't see a problem there. Um, you know, it this is revenue for the township. It's not a heavy lift. Um, you know, we've been providing this service for them for 30 plus years and they're
relying on us to provide the service >> and the the nominal fee increases. I mean, food goes up, dog food goes up. If we do have to house them, there are some additional fees. How did we take into consideration just a $2 increase over the previous year?
>> We I I believe we raised it by um I I believe we raised it by either I can't I I don't know off the top of my head. I don't have in front of me, but I think we went up either 2% or 5% each year.
I mean, we're we're not we're not pulling in a lot of animals from from SXL. If you look at the statistics I provided, it it it's really not a lot. >> So, the so the increase was a cost of living increase of 2% or 5%, but you're
not absolutely certain. I >> I I don't have it in front of me. I think I think we increased it by 5%. Okay. Thank you, Counciloman Ruden. >> Um I I'm sorry. I I should have pulled this because I do want a separate vote
on this. Is that possible still to do? Okay. Um I spoke at the last meeting that our animal control center is really it's an animal control center but it's also operating as a as a shelter for
long-term and it's not not in the best interest of the animals that are that are there. I also think that our staff is very um stretched thin at this point. uh we just a agreed to not myself but
this council agreed to a one-year contract with another municipality. I do not agree that this should be a three-year contract especially since there is a lot of discussion about the future of the animal control um
services you know in its entirety. So I would say that if this is going forward, we should do just one year. I also would like to know why if this contract is supposed to run from January 1st, 2026 to the end of let's just say this year,
why we're getting this contract on June 24th and not on not in the first week in January or even in the last week in in uh 2025. Councilwoman, with all due respect, I I have had this contract before our legal
department. Um and um it has taken some time to have it reviewed and then it had to be re-reed for some some some reasons that um you know uh the legal department needed to re-review it and there were
some changes that had to be made. Um, so that that's the reason for the delay, but um I I I I don't understand why we need to um not renew the contract. I mean, it
it's a three-year contract. If if for some reason the redevelopment comes to fruition, we'll give the burrow the 60 days notice to to terminate the contract. I mean, why why are we turning away revenue? You guys cut my
>> opt out and I'm on 60 days post. >> You you cut my you cut my operating budget to zero dollar $1. So now I'm operate operating off a trust account and I rely on this money to help support the division. So I I I don't I don't
agree with you. I'm sorry. >> This does not seem like like revenue. This we are providing a service. It's not revenue if we're providing a service and they're paying for for the service. Um they are pro they are paying for an
expense that they incur on us. And I don't think that contract should be out of line. If you have one contract that is until the end of this year, this one should only be till the end of this year as well. and then the next administration and the next council can
make a judgment on on what is going to happen with the animal control. >> Well, and and the other thing if if if you look in my response to my questions is that you know shared service agreements really helps us with grants. So just just know that you're you're
you're jeopardizing our our um our eligibility with with some of these grants that we get from the Department of Health. what grants are jeopardized as a result of of this and and providing this three-year contract for the for
another purpose that is to get grants does not really address this issue which is my concern that we should not be providing this service at all to any municipality at this point. In fact, we should be looking to another municipality to provide this service for us.
Nobody wants to take on the town west. >> Well, ha have you I don't know if that's accurate unless you're giving me information that that everybody else has said no. >> So, we we have done surveys with with
neighboring communities and we we have gotten out of that survey. I I think I indicated this during my budget hearing. We had a local vet express some interest in assisting
us with providing space for sheltering in the event that we have to vacate our current space. But we have we have pulled other towns and you know we've we've talked with Livingston we've and
it's just it's not it's not feasible. Can you provide us with the data on all of the other municipalities that have refused to enter into a shared agreement with us? >> Sure, >> Mr. Samero. You
>> uh I I don't think that's realistic to look at one year contracts. The the shared service statute permits multipleear contracts. uh you're talking about tripling the amount of work associated with the contract doing it
every year for review. >> Uh so your administrative cost, legal costs associated with that uh increase >> uh the possibility of there being an error or mistake also increases. Uh also
one benefit of interlocal agreements uh that can't be uh overlooked is the fact that it maintains relationships with your neighboring municipalities.
Uh and if you end uh doing them favors, they do you favors and every town at various points in time. I think that we realized that we needed a favor if I recall correctly regarding salt >> uh at the during the winter time.
>> Uh so uh you know shared services agreements are for a global efficiency not not a revenue source. Uh so uh I I
again I'm not here to to poke holes and and anyone's argument. Uh but there are some downsides to uh shortening the contract. >> Philosophically speaking, shared
services agreements are for multiple years for the reasons that I had just articulated. And in the final analysis, the contract can be terminated on 60 days notice if it doesn't financially work out. Uh so rather than leave uh a
neighbor that was relying upon the contract high and drying, uh even if you were going to terminate it next month, I would suggest that I mean you go forward with it and uh
terminate it if you like in accordance with provisions that both sides have already knowledge for reason. >> Right. I appreciate the economy as a scale and especially since we had the 60-day close, I would agree that we really should just move forward. Uh, Councilman Koviac, >> uh, I just wanted to get a clarification. Is there a motion pending
on this? >> We were just asking questions because while I respect Councilwoman Ruden's opposition to everything associated with the animal shelter, and I understand it, uh, there's not anything on the floor. If you want to ask some questions to clarify, great. If if you're if you're
advocating for something else other than that, I I think we need to move on. >> She just say she wanted to pull it. >> Yeah. I I called for the questions and then Councilwoman Ruden asked to pull it. >> She has to pull it, >> right? But we haven't done a motion or anything yet. >> So,
>> okay. Can we move on? >> We have Director Fonino on the line. That's why we were we discussed that. >> Yeah. So, are we ready to I wanted to do all the questions, >> right? I I have more questions. So, >> Oh, um not about that one. I I'm ready
to move on to >> Well, let's just do this one. Are you going to put >> directors? Should she make a motion? >> No. Do that after. >> It's is everybody finished with director Bonino? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you, Director Bonzino. >> Okay. You're welcome. Thank you, Fagan.
Director Carbalo is waiting in the lobby, I believe. She's in the lobby. The poor thing. She's in the No. No. >> The wings. >> Was this for 167? >> Correct.
>> Because I I didn't I didn't have questions on 167. >> Councilman Koviac. >> Okay. While we're waiting, can we go ahead and go to 171? >> 17. >> 172. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But my only note about 172.
>> Well, can I read the title so that people know what we're doing? >> Resolution authorizing reimbursement cost for private garbage collection for the period of January 1st, 2024 through December 31st, 2025 to private home homeowner association/individuals.
>> Thank you, Madam Clerk. Um my comment regarding 172 is if you look on the back for the administration and finance invoice um it's listed under Robert D Paresi John Gross and it's dated 51426.
Oh, I did not see that. Um, well, I don't even know. My question would be, is this a valid invoice? >> It's not the right name. It's not right. >> Invoice on >> if we have to pull that just to get it correct. >> Yeah, I think we should. >> Let's just pull that one.
>> Yeah. Okay. Okay. Good. >> Sorry about I didn't I didn't see that. I don't >> Not a problem. Just we help each other. happens. Okay. So, we're going to make resolution. >> Mr. Smaldo, if we're having uh problems getting uh Miss Carvalo on the phone,
then >> she >> was on >> because I actually have a a question probably more appropriate for you than for her and then we can move on. She just raised her hand and said don't have her. >> She should be able to
>> mute yourself. >> I just did. Can everybody hear me? >> Yes. >> Good evening everyone. >> Go ahead. >> Good evening Miss Carbalo. It's obviously Joe Koviaak. Sorry I keep forgetting I'm the only guy on the on
the council. Uh just really quick questions uh because the the issue of Ten Rooney has come up before in the current council term and I just wanted to sort of connect the dots here. Could you tell me we're replacing it sounds
like uh five uh existing um uh air conditioners? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> There will be five uh units or like you know it's basically past their lifetime. Um, I inspected them myself with the architect when we were up there and each one of them would probably be costing
between$225 to $250,000. And basically this um proposal is to prepare the construction plans and the specifications in order to put the project out to bid. >> Could Could I just ask you to speak a little bit slowly? We've got the air
conditioner on and you know what that does to everybody's uh could you just give me a ballpark estimate as to what you think the total cost of the project is? >> Sure. So the total cost of the project for each one of the units would be about
between 225,000 to 250 each. So figure between the five you're about 1.2 2 $1.3 million and figure another like 300,000 or so also for the roof because the roof is also going to need to be replaced within the next two years or so. And I
will put that out to bid on a separate project, >> right? And we actually need these guys to help you put together the bid documents. >> Yes. Because this is like I said, this is not my expertise. like I know better than anyone my limitations as a professional and this has to do with you
know mechanical, electrical and plumbing. >> So my my second question, thank you. My second question is uh and it doesn't need to be a long answer because I I know that we're not required to seek multiple bids or competitive bids
because it's professional services. I just wondered if you did solicit any more bids behi be besides Herps Musakano. >> Not on this one. No, because it's because we have a tenant and the fact
that they had no AC and during that week when this went down and it wasn't working um it was one of the hottest like days. So my attitude is this is an emergency and to be honest with you I have asked other uh architects in the past and typically they are the lowest
and they also submitted so that you know and the council know they submitted the annual RFQ which is the request for qualifications that professionals submit to the township on a yearly basis. >> Yes, that that's fine. I just just was curious. Uh the the last question I have
is this is related to the proposal uh the the big project proposal last year uh that the council majority voted down uh and it had to do with the project to 10 Rooney. Subsequent to voting that down, we've had some people come and and
and provide complaints about uh uh access and pedestrian uh uh safety issues uh and ease of access. Is that on your radar screen or perhaps the next
project for this? Yes, as a matter of fact, I actually had a meeting with the uh business administrator and our CFO uh to put together the capital budget for, you know, various projects and that one is definitely on the radar and that one
is for the exterior improvements or site improvements at Ten Rooney Circle. >> Okay. Yes, it's just uh we have a very limited budget uh for capital projects now. So I do not envy uh your
attempts to prioritize and and squeeze all the money out. So thank you very much. I just uh wanted to to hear those question question back on this. Go ahead. The director's >> so we did meet with Mr. Diniac and the director and uh we are putting together
I think I may have mentioned this already but if we didn't um we are putting together a comprehensive plan for capital for for infrastructure then we're going to do one for vehicles too and Mr. Deniac said he's going to put it in like a book form or something to that
effect. And we are going to identify projects either on uh one, two, and three or ABC whatever is the highest and middle and lowest priority. And it and it in an estimated time that we should try to get these things accomplished just so we so you can identify and see
exactly what what the challenges we have when it comes to all this capital. And so we will we're putting that together. Uh we did meet just last week again and so we're going to we're going to be putting that together and presenting it to the when we make our request just so just so everybody knows. So because this
is this is a you know an expensive endeavor at Ten Rooney. So >> yes it is. So >> yes I I just I'm just floored and this is absolutely eye popping. We're talking about investing $1.5 million into an old
building that again we we got for a dollar and now look what look what it's costing us in addition to all of the repairs that were needed for this new old library. So what I'd like to know is does the revenue from the tenant
cover even this $1.5 million a year? Do we get enough money? How how are we going to pay for this? We're going to have to bond for this. >> So, I believe we're going to have to bond for that. But we have um we receive
about $1.5 million a year in our current contract. We are in discussions with our tenant um for new terms. I could talk about that, I think. Um and we're we're in negotiations right now discussing that with them. So, um and I don't want
to go too far without >> Yeah. Yeah. I would I wouldn't discuss anything more publicly other than obviously rent for the new term is one of the sub is one of the terms that's being negotiated. >> So we're in the we're in the process of negotiating right now. So and that's
about as far as we really want to go with that. >> Okay. Great. >> For public consumption. >> Okay. Yes, Councilman. But but as summer comes comes on and they don't have air conditioning, it will probably help our negotiating position if we're moving forward with that.
>> And that's part of what we look at. And just so we understand, too, we had to buy temporary units, the portables. So we had to do that. It's not just for there. It's some of our other buildings too. I mean, we're our infrastructure is old and that's why we're trying to identify that to and that's just not the
buildings. That's, you know, we have a lot, you know, >> and we haven't had a capital budget since 2023, >> right? We haven't had a capital budget. So, we're, you know, this is what we're trying to present to you to give you what the reality is and what our priorities are and and what we can try
to start moving forward, chip away at. >> Okay. Thank you. Yes, Councilman. >> I just want to follow up on that about capital budget. There's a difference between having a capital budget and borrowing money. And in the four years before this council term started, the
previous councils uh increased our outstanding debt by $57 million. So even if they didn't have a capital budget that year, we wound up spending a ton of money that is now putting us on a a capital diet. That's why we only have
roughly $5 million uh a year uh for the capital budget because we're trying to work down this $170 million from debt. So, just didn't want anybody thinking that we weren't spending money just because we didn't have a capital budget. We were spending money out the wazoo.
>> Okay. >> Councilwoman Williams pulled 173-26 resolution. I'm sorry. >> Were you are we done with director Carvalo? So, we didn't let her go. >> I believe so. >> Thank you, director. >> I'm sorry it wasn't pulled. She had questions as did Councilman Koviaak
resolution authorizing the township to apply for a grant from the state of New Jersey in the amount of $5,000 to fund the green community's community forest management plan development. >> Thank you, Madame Clerk. President, I
wanted to um ask for questions regarding this grant agreement. Again, um we've had continued discussion about historical information, purpose, etc., etc., etc. Um so I have no idea what the
grant agreement between the township of West Orange and the state of New Jersey um for the Department of Environmental Protection because it's basically no information on the community's forest management plan, what it is, what its purpose is. Um so I had to go look. Um,
and you know, Google said that it is a grant that is in the amount of $5,000 and in some cases $20,000. So, I was just curious why we only applied for the $5 5,000 as opposed to
the full grant amount of 20,000. The 20,000 also included, according to what I was able to find on Google, um, tree implementation. So maybe a tree inventory of some sort if you were to apply for the full 20. >> So we do have a tree inventory right
now. We we um and I don't know if it's the same exact grant, but in the past we had we have received other green community grants and we have purchased um the software to go with that. We we are we have the inventory now. So our foresters felt that this was the next
step for us to move forward with the management plan to be in in conjunction with the what we already have. Is it possible? I'm not suggesting that we have to do anything to modify this, but just more detail. I It should be, you know, I I shouldn't have to go look and
try and figure out what it is, nor should the public. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Y >> Okay, Councilman Kroak. >> Yes. Thank you. I just had a a quick question. Uh in uh our forers's response
to some questions about the resolution, uh he wrote uh quotes were received earlier this year on writing the management plan of $5,000 from John Linson, who's a previous uh >> forester for us, but uh he he used the
uh uh plural term quotes, and I just was wondering if there was a did we solicit more than one quote? >> I don't believe that. That may be a typo. I don't I don't I don't think that was quotes. I think it was just it was Mr. Linton, I believe, because >> Okay, >> this is one of these communities that
there's not a lot of people in them, >> so we're very limited on on the resources we have. >> Okay, that's all I need. I just was checking up. I I like multiple bids even when you don't have to. >> Um, so thank you. >> That's all. >> Okay. Okay. I think that's all the
questions uh everyone had. Now we well we have to vote on No, we have to vote on 174-26. Councilwoman Ruden pulled that. >> Were you going to make a motion? >> Is there a motion >> to approve? >> Yes.
>> Is there a second? Seeing no second, the motion dies. Um, so then just for clarification, um, so that means that we're not going to have a shared service agreement with SX for animal control. >> Correct. >> What what wait I misunderstood?
>> Yeah, that's Wait, wait, wait, wait. >> I understood that. >> Well, I think Did you want to make a motion? I thought you were going to make a motion. >> Yes. I would like to make a motion that that this be equivalent to the other contract that was just passed two weeks
ago, which is a one-year contract. >> So, you're you're you're making a motion to amend it so that the contract refused to return. >> Yes. So, it has to be reviewed every year by the water. >> We decided we didn't want to do that, right? That was going to be costly, right?
>> Yeah. So, >> we just did we just did it for we just did it for Caldwell. Why would we do it for one municipality for a year and and this one for three? >> Just look. >> Okay. So, I'm gonna You're gonna restate that motion to move that motion 174-26.
>> And I'll second it. >> Okay. And what is the motion? What does the motion say? >> Okay. Motion to approve. Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. So, so you you you moved it. >> I second it. >> And you second it. >> So, now we have to vote.
>> Things did get disrupted. Yeah. >> Right. So, generally speaking, you'd have a a motion to move it and then there could be a motion to change to amend it. >> I think in fairness, Councilwoman Ruten
wanted to amend it. >> Right. >> So, let's see if there's a second on the floor to amend it. >> Amend. >> Being none, that motion dies. >> Okay. >> Is there a second to adopt? Yeah, there was a second. Yeah.
>> So, now you have a vote on accepting. >> Accepting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um, Councilman Kovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarf, >> yes. The motion carries
with the rest of the agenda. >> Yes. Is there >> Second? There were questions on 172. It was pulled for questions. And I have a question on 172. >> It was pulled off. We >> It was pulled off the agenda. >> Pulled it. >> We pulled it >> because of the Okay. >> It was pulled off because of I would
like to ask one one more question on that while you're since since it's pulled. Um we are paying for garbage collection and it is not clear whether this >> if I may just just to keep in order if they're going to move were you moving
the consent agenda and this one's off of the consent agenda. >> You're good. >> Okay. So if if there was a motion to move the consent agenda and there's an understanding that this 172 is off of the consent. >> She can ask her a question after. >> Yeah, she should ask the question when
we vote on that one. >> Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented. >> Okay. Councilwoman had a question.
>> Okay. My my question is whether or not this entity is um recycling because recycling is mandatory and we are paying for garbage pickup which is it it actually increases our our fees because
we have both pickup and tipping which is the the the dumping of the of the garbage. So, I'd like to know whether we are checking to see whether this entity is recycling as is our law. >> I will I'll put that to the director and
to follow up on that. I I don't know what the exact I know why we we pick up or we reimburse this person this this property because um I think the director actually explained it in the budget hearing that it's a difficult challenging area. So, um I just don't know the answer about recycling and I'll
ask him for it. >> Kovak, >> I'm just reading from Mr. Diniac's uh response to the questions that you sent back to us. I can't remember whether it was yesterday or today. This property has not been reimbursed for garbage collection since 2024 against their 2023
expenses. We reimburse based on the township's calculated annual cost per residential unit as shown in the attachments to the resolution. The management company for the entity changed and they were unsure of the reimbursement process.
I do not know what they would do to reduce their waste, but whatever they do or not do does not impact the amount they are reimbursed. And that's because we provide an an average of all of our costs from the previous year and that's
how it's applied. >> So, does that answer the question? >> Yeah. and and and and I understand again the the the the curiosity about the question that the council had raised, but the Kelly act requires us to make
payment based upon the calculations that Jonath had articulated. Uh so it if they're paying an enhanced fee for co-mingling, that's that's their prerogative.
We have our obligation. >> Thank you. >> Excuse me. But they're not paying an enhanced fee. We're paying the >> we're reimbursing them for expenses that they're laying out to the extent that we
pay similar prices throughout the town. >> But we might be paying more if they're not recycling. And we haven't checked to see whether they are recycling >> it. That is not relevant. What's relevant is that they have a choice for
us to either do it or to reimburse them. And they opted to do it themselves and that we reimburse them for the expense and and that's our obligation under the act. >> But if they're fe if they are paying more because they're not recycling, we
are now absorbing that cost. >> No, we're not. You're just making they're they're disposing of the garbage. We're just giving them a payment in lie of whatever it is that they're doing. >> But they have more garbage if they're not recycling.
>> Why does that matter? We're paying them how much it costs us on a per household basis, which is our obligation. >> They could they could be doing things that increase their expenses 10fold. They're absorbing it themselves. Our
obligation is based upon what our trash collection expenses are. >> Okay? And what about the drop off fee for the trash bas? >> But are aren't they paying both sides? They're paying the pickup and the drop
off fee. Correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, their drop off fee is based on the amount of garbage that they have, which is why I'm asking if they >> drop off fee is not being factored into what our waste expenses. They're paying it themselves.
>> Okay. So, do you understand what I'm saying? >> They're they took the task off of our shoulders and they're saying if you were to do it, whatever expense you would have paid to get that done is what you now have to
give to us. >> Okay. >> I'm understanding that they're filling in whatever the delta is. >> Okay. Okay. So, moving on to ordinances on second and final reading. Now, 2968-26 is the popup party ordinance, and I
believe we're going to discuss something in executive. >> Yes, I I would ask that that be pulled. Uh the uh bing board did a consistency review, which in and of
itself is a different issue. Uh but they actually made some comments about the ordinance uh that wasn't changed. It was the original ordinance and there was some merit to what they said.
So I looked at the ordinance and I am suggesting that some of the changes that they had suggested along with some other changes that I am now suggesting. uh when this ordinance was first brought to uh my attention
uh at a council meeting, I was told just change the price, you know. So I didn't look at the ordinance for the purpose of rewriting it wholesale. I just changed the price. Um and uh when it was brought to
when I say the price I mean that uh when it was brought to the plane board's attention they identified some ambiguities or inconsistencies at least some issues with respect to what the way that it could have been written. Uh and I think that what I'm going to suggest uh to you um will
accomplish the intended goal and just make things a little bit more clear. I don't want to pull it because it's already the summer and we need to have something in place to protect the residents. I would like to move forward with it and you can we can amend it. So, at least we have something in place and
the residents are protected. This has been going on for months and months and months. It's taken entirely too long. >> Well, you you you you certainly can do it. Their uh their recommendation was that it was consistent with the master plan. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So you just need a simple majority
to do so. >> Uh and I do suggest that we look at it to amend it. >> And that's a ballot way to look at it. So >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> If I could, I would encourage you and and the other members of the law firm to
try to push this forward as quickly as possible because I think we approved this back in March and we're just getting it now here at the end of June. So >> you want to talk? Let me just finish very quickly. So I I just encourage if we if we go this route
>> in my hand to give to you in closeup already drafted. >> That's pretty responsive. I'm impressed >> right now. >> I'm impressed. >> And it also it took a while for it to go before the planning board as well. >> It's going to have to go again. So let's
just move it and then >> otherwise the summer will be over. >> I'm I'm I'm a little concerned with us saying let's just move it. I think we've had several discussions when we are talking about when we draft it's we pick and choose. If we if it's something you
want to push through, then you're saying let's just move it. But we are already being told by our legal that there's some challenges with the ordinance. Why would we pass an ordinance that can be challenged that has legal implications? Why can't we get it right the first
time? If there are real concerns, there haven't been. We have not had any reports of pop-up parties. We only really had two instances that two locations that really were the cause for the for the ordinance to begin with. So,
I don't agree that we just push stuff through that doesn't have a legal basis to support it. It can be challenged in court. >> That's a waste of everybody's time and energy and cost. I mean, let's look at the again the pop-up parties if they're
not that big of a deal. They're not I'm not saying they're not an issue. I'm just saying we've only had two issues. So, it's not like it's rampant throughout town. It's that's not the case. >> They are a big deal to the people who have come here and called us and asked
for this and it's taken entirely too long. It is summer. I I would like to just move it forward and then we can quickly make any amendments to it. So at least we have something in place. >> So So then there So there should be a motion. >> I'll make a motion to move forward. >> Then we follow the process with public
hearing and proceed. >> Okay. I'd like to make a motion. Yeah, >> if it could before the motion. I I just want to ask Mr. Simro what your legal opinion is. I I was concerned about what uh Councilwoman Williams was saying, but I also thought you're not going to let
us move forward on this if you think it's putting us in any sort of uh significant legal jeopardy >> between now and when we get >> comment on an opinion as to enforcability in the public. Uh that would be attorney client communication.
Uh, I understand that we're coming out of closed session for the purposes of the ABC hearing. >> If you want to hear what I have to say, we could do this in close session and you could c, you know, have this carried
until after close session. >> Yes. I I definitely would like to hear what you say irregard. We we that's what you're here for, >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> If you make a motion. Yeah, I made the motion to uh move it forward. >> Okay. I I second the motion.
Um Okay, hold on. >> Uh first again forward. >> Okay. Uh vote Councilman Koviaak to move forward. >> Yes. Council President, can I can I make
a comment? >> Sure. >> There is an ordinance that's already on the books. The only thing that was changing was the final. So, it isn't like you're changing something substantively from where you
are now. That may be something back to >> That's why I said yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. You want to move forward? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Councilwoman Ruden, >> uh, yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no.
>> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. Okay. >> Well, now, yeah. Okay. >> Is Is that the same as introducing on a second and final reading? >> That's what it was. >> Yeah, this is the second reading. Yeah, this is
>> You didn't open it up for public. >> Yeah, we have to open it up for public. Is there anybody in the >> Okay. >> Is there anyone in the audience who would like to talk about this this ordinance make comment on this ordinance? >> Seeing none, we'll close.
>> Is there a motion to close motion close public hearing? >> Is there second? >> Second. >> Okay. Council Councilman Kovia. >> Well, I have some comments. >> Okay, go on. >> Thank you. Um, so some of my concerns with the pop-up parties are events and
gatherings that are political events. Um, if you are hosting something for a charity and perhaps you want to charge or give donations, how is this uh impacted by this ordinance? So, right
now we're saying you can't advertise that you're going to charge. What if someone has a pop-up party and they just ask for donations? Is that a workaround? It's it's not changed from what the current statute uh ordinance is in that
regard. Uh this ordinance does not affectuate a change to that particular provision. But let me call the ordinance up so that you know
I messed up on my file here. Hold on. It says that they're exempted when um on l number four under popup parties on page two. The exemptions are activities, gatherings, or events that may constitute a pop-up party under this subsection shall be exempted where the
proceeds for the same shall be used for any bonafide charitable organization license in the state of New Jersey or for political contributions to any bonafide local, state or federal campaign which has been properly registered with the appropriate authority. >> Okay. So, council, what's your question?
My question was how was this going to affect affect if donations were asked for as opposed to an actual fee? But I guess it's exempt for political events as well as charitable organizations.
>> Yeah, it's it's already exempt. >> Okay. Can we move forward? Let's do Are you finished? >> Okay, let's move forward with the next one. No, we have to vote on that. We >> have to vote on this. And then
>> is there a motion to approve 2968-26? So moved. >> Yes. So moved. >> Well, I I I apologize. Interrupt. >> Was the roll call complete for closing public? >> Oh, I'm sorry. No, it was not cuz uh Councilwoman Williams needed to speak. I
apologize. That was me. Um All right. To close public comment. Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. Council President Scarpa. Okay. So, we have a motion from Councilman uh Koviaak for approval. Is there a second? >> Second.
>> Thank you. Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden? >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams? >> No. >> Council President Scar? >> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. >> Okay. Next is 2973-26,
an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 5, general licensing, article 7, cannabis licenses, se I'm sorry, subsection 5-30 34.8A, operating requirements and prohibitions, permitted operating hours for licensed
cannabis entities of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on second? Motion to introduce Okay. Councilwoman, I'm sorry. Councilman Koviaak, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Okay. The motion carries. Public hearing. >> Okay. Is there anyone in the audience who wants to make public comment on 297326? Seeing none,
>> I move to close public. >> A second. >> Okay. And I move for adoption. >> Second. I have to do a roll call. >> Councilman Kovia. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. Okay. >> Move for adoption on second and final.
>> Second. >> Okay. Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. Okay. Motion carries. There we go. >> All right. Ordinance is on first reading. 2978-26.
An ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic section 32.2 restricted parking zones of the municipal code of the township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? >> I'll make a motion >> to introduce.
>> Okay. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> President Scorpa. Okay. The motion carries. Uh pending matters, new matters. Council
discussion. We have the puppy mill ban. >> Yes. I um sent around a resolution to the entire council on um proposing a ban on creating puppy mills, puppy mill
stores or or stores that sell puppy mill dogs. Um I think it was pretty well explained by um Mr. Con who came to speak with us. and I'd like to see if there would be support for such a resolution. It would
not affect any of the stores in our that are currently operating in town right now. It would only set a standard for what could come. Uh council president make examples of course.
>> Uh I have had some experience uh with ordinances of this nature >> uh both in representing municipalities as well as uh representing a coalition of responses at store owners
a lot of the associated. Uh I know that you and I had a conversation uh and and I was trying to dig out my old research because that was a few years ago. >> Uh I did locate just like yesterday and
I have not had a chance to look at it. Uh I I'm not suggesting that anything that I have would be adverse to the concept.
Uh but there has been in New Jersey. Uh I know for example one there definitely was one. Um, and there's definitely I'm not challenging or or questioning
the need for some regulation. I remember a horrific scenario that happened at Paramis when uh we were Pamis uh attorneys. >> Mhm. Uh but I think uh I'd like an opportunity. I would suggest an opportunity just for me to give a
comment to you as a governing body for the next council meeting. This may be narrow already. I don't know. So I just didn't have a chance to look at it substantively. Uh
and if it isn't, I may have suggestions on how you can narrow it but still give effect. to it. So if anyone is if the governing body would be interested in me sharing the experience that I have because it did involve analyzing and
being involved in litigation on ordinances like this. Uh I just wasn't uh available uh and prepared to be able to discuss it intelligently tonight. I would be able to have a memo in advance for the next meeting and then I would think that we'd have an ordinance for
the following uh meeting in one form or another. >> How many billable hours would that take on your part? >> Not more than like 1,500 >> because you know I I am not want I really feel strongly that we should not be wasting t your time or money on
issues that are not explicitly related to the work that we do. It would at most be two hours uh to to just look at the memos that I have, look at the case law and take a red line if if at all to the proposed
ordinance. Uh but it's certainly up to your your collective decision. I just want to let you know that I did have some experience in it and I am aware of there there being some issues associated with the concept. >> Yeah. So, I would I would I would
certainly welcome your review and input before we move forward with um doing something that again may cause us controversy down of line. That's what you're here for, >> Councilman.
>> Uh I didn't raise my hand for >> Did you want to move forward? >> Oh. >> Uh no, I I don't want to move forward. >> Okay. I don't really want to move forward with this either. I think it's waste of our time and money. It's not an issue. If it became an issue, it would
be a different story. I think we need to stick to our decision not to move, waste your time and money on all these things that don't explicitly affect, you know, you've got the affordable housing. You've got so many things on your plate. I'd rather see you put your time and
energy into those things. I >> I understand. Then then I would just suggest that I I'll look at to make sure that there's no glaring obvious issue with it. If there is, I'll propose it to be redlined for that without spending time on researching the finer.
>> So, so we can we you will review the ordinance that has been proposed and point out whatever you feel is a problem and then present it to us at the next council meeting. Is that correct? >> Those are billable hours, right? >> You're you're billing us for those hours. >> Of course.
>> Yeah. Well, I don't think our process I apologize, council president, but again, we have a process. I've said this repeatedly. Our process is that if we move something from pending matters, it has to be a majority vote. And if we don't have a majority vote, then there
is no reason for us to have him look at anything. >> Exactly. I don't think he should be looking at anything. And Council, are you do you have a different opinion? >> I I don't think we should be wasting time on this. No, I I I think this does not rise to the level of our minimum
standards for ordinances where there's a clear need and a general benefit to the community. But uh because it costs resources and uh we we don't have a we don't have a problem in town. There's a bill pending before the state legislature right now to ban retail
sales of commercially bred animals. We already have laws and regulations in place. Pet shops must disclose the sources of their of their pets. Uh there's a consumer protection uh protecting consumers in the first 14
days if the pets get sick. And there are also potential violations under the New Jersey Consumer Fraud Act. So it's it's not like these these animals are just uh uh in New Jersey are at risk uh in a
general way. It just I just don't think it rises to spending money on it. >> Not to spend money. Not to spend money. >> Okay. >> Not to spend money. >> Okay. >> I see I'm overruled here, but I would let I would say that what we are doing
here is a very simple matter. The resolution has passed in 155 municipalities uh in in in New Jersey. It's been banned in 10 states in our country. This is not something that needs intense legal
review. This is setting standards of decency in terms of how we care for animals. We are an expanding municipality in terms of in terms of um stores are coming in. There's a whole, you know, um plaza that's that's going
to be filled. We can get ahead of this and stop a potential problem by joining every other municipality that has been forwardinking. I think we should just call for the vote. >> Thank you. I'll second that. >> Is there a motion to move forward with this review of the ordinance?
>> No. >> I would like to go I would like it to go forward. >> Are you? >> Yes. >> Yes. You're making a motion to do that. >> Second. >> Seeing none, the motion dies. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So then I will not.
>> Correct. Got enough to do. All right. So now is there any other new matters? Um, are we going to go to executive session or are we going to go into ABC hearing? No, >> we're doing executive session. >> Okay. >> If I could just raise an issue having to do with Robert's rules of order.
>> Sure. >> Robert's rules of order has a provision based upon trying to close discussion and move to a vote. And you basically, it's three-part series. I somebody says gets recognized and say I move the
previous question then it must be seconded and it must be adopted by a twothirds vote. Okay. So again I understand when people want to move past discussion to the vote and
want to use this but I think we need to uh operate under the Robert's rules of order. So um just going forward this has already passed but just going forward somebody needs to be recognized has to move the previous question and then it has to be seconded and then it has to be
adopted by a twothirds vote. >> You're talking about moving this out of committee into a a directive? >> No, we were we were uh in discussion phase. The the motion had been uh there
you Was the motion made? The motion was made but not seconded, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, if we probably shouldn't even be discussing it except that you sort of opened the door when we were talking about what to
do and next steps, but I'm just saying when you say I move the question, it's because the the motion has been made and seconded, then the discussion period, somebody wants to cut the discussion short. That's that's what I'm just pointing out here. So it's three steps.
I move the previous question has to be seconded. >> Someone wants to make a motion to close discussion while it's acted. >> That's right. After it's motioned and seconded, >> it hadn't been made as a motion yet. There was no motion.
>> That's why I was trying to say this doesn't apply. Yeah. >> But going forward going forward when you have a motion on the floor that's been seconded and somebody wants to cut off >> the discussion shortact. >> Exactly. Got it. >> Exactly. So >> I'm I'm move to recess to executive
session. >> I'll second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I. >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Okay. We uh the executive Oh, the public meeting is recessed.
Recess. Okay. >> You sure you don't want to do the ABC before? >> No, let's just I'm doing Well, I just >> Hi, welcome back everyone. Thank you for staying with us. We'd like to adjourn
our executive session and go into ABC. >> Thank you, Council. Hold on. Let me get my >> Councilmaniac. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Rudigen. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President SC. >> Yes.
>> That motion carries. speak confused. >> We do can just leave. Okay. So ABC run through.
Okay. So the first resolution is 793-26. Um, this resolution has the lences who have met the requirements for renewal, paid their fees, have tax clearance,
um, and are ready to be renewed for the next season. >> Um, just make a motion to renew. >> Yeah. So, is there a motion to approve? >> I'll make a motion to approve. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> This is for 793.
>> 793. Yes. 793. >> Okay. Council Councilman Kakoviaak. >> Yes. >> Council, I'm sorry. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scar, the motion carries. >> Okay. The next one is 794 hearing on
renewal for 2026 27 license term Jojo's Restaurant Services LLC trading as the Valley Barbecue at 34th South Valley Road. Uh again, they've met all the requirements. Um, and they are not appealing any of
their special conditions and they're ready to renote. Is there a motion to approve? >> Second. >> Okay. Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes.
>> The motion carries. Next is 795-26, hearing on renewal for 2026 27 licensed term Las Palmer, Inc. trading as Lot Vita Bar Restaurante at 364 Valley Road. >> Yes.
>> Can you go to the microphone? >> Go ahead. >> Sure. >> Good evening or almost good morning. >> Uh Daniel Antelli from the law firm Antelli Caner Rivera. Uh I serve as the township's uh ABC prosecutor. Also
present is uh council for uh the license holder Bobby Williams. Robert Williams. >> Williams. >> Uh I just wanted to just put a few things on the record just so we're all on the same page. Um the resolution that
is before you. Uh there is a slight change to to the resolution with regard to the hours. Uh we had discussed this in executive session, but I just want to make sure it's clear that condition uh special condition number seven, and Bob,
you correct me if I'm wrong. Uh it's a uh the clo the doors closed to new customers at 11:30. Uh there should be no sale of alcoholic beverages uh at by 12:00 p.m. that will cut off and then all customers will be off the premises
by 12:30. So essentially it's a a 30 minute roll back of each of those from what was there previously. Uh number two, as you're all aware, there'll be the remote access for the video surveillance system. Uh if this council passes this renewal this evening, um
I've been advised by council that they will not appeal uh really the special condition dealing with the roll back of the hours. They don't object to the other one, but they will not appeal the resolution. >> Correct. you represent the lency uh that we will
not repeal those solutions. >> Okay. >> Uh and then just just for clarification, I did speak to council uh after our executive session with regard to an issue raised about noise and I know there was a discussion about that, but I
want Mr. Williams just to advise council some of the things his client has done in that regard. And if you'll note that three summones were last issued back in July, September, and October, notwithstanding whether or not the ordinance is enforceable. But I'll let
Bob, Mr. Williams, address. I don't know if you've been down to the site recently, but there have been substantial improvements made. The parking lot's been redone. The outside's been redone. The inside's been redone. Additional soundproofing has been done
inside. Uh even by the police records, there have been no complaints on noise since last October. Uh and one thing I think you have to consider, we have not been charged or convicted of any violations over the last year. So, we're
looking forward to continuing our 15-year relationship with this community. They've been here 15 years. They live in West Orange. I understand there have been issues over the year. It's a difficult area. We have people that sometimes act inappropriately and
we try to discourage that. But I think West Orange wants to encourage and work with licenses and restaurants so that we can keep them open. And I appreciate the assistance of council here and coming to a resolution so we don't have to file appeals that cost everybody a lot of
money. Um, we'll move forward. We'll live by these conditions. We'll review them again. They're only good for one year. Next year, you'll have an opportunity to review them again and have our discussion. Hopefully, there'll be no events during the year and everybody will be happy.
>> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Yes. >> Uh, Council President, as I've done previously, uh, because of this particular situation, I'm need to recuse myself. Okay. Uh, I accepted a campaign contribution from the owner, I don't
know, 12, 14 years ago, and I feel like I need to recuse myself. So, completely respect. >> I'm just going to get off the deis and go ahead. >> Thank you. >> Is there any other discussion? >> No. I move for the adoption of the
application with the special conditions >> and I'll second it. >> Was there something we were supposed to add about the >> uh Yeah. Yeah. It's subject to the
stipulation of waiver of >> Okay. Okay. what he said >> subject to the stipulation um that there will be no further appeals. >> Okay. Waiver. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden.
>> No. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scar. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Yeah. >> Good night. >> Good night. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Good night, West Orange. >> Wait a minute. Is there a motion to
adjurnn? >> Yes. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjourn ABC and the meeting? >> Thank you. >> Good night. >> Good night. >> Good night.