Good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for July 22nd, 2025. We are live streaming via the Zoom platform from council chambers, 66 Main Street. You are welcome to join us. At
this time, I'd like to turn the council meeting over to council president. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Welcome everybody both uh in person and online. I have to defer to madame clerk at this time. Thank you. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in
compliance with section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger and the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman
Castelino, present. Councilwoman Ruden, here. Councilwoman Scarpa present. Council President Koviaak present. Oh, I get to announce we are going to say the pledge of allegiance. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot we're not in
conference. Will everyone please stand for the pledge of allegiance? To the flag of the United States of America. America, the republic for stands, nation, one nation under God, indivisible,
and justice for all. The council is now in their public meeting. So, those of you who are sharp eyed know by looking at the agenda before we started the meeting that we do not have a conference agenda that starts at 6:30. Instead, what we're going to do
is use this half hour to uh go into executive session to discuss the subject of affordable housing. But we first before we go into the executive session, the law requires that the council approve going into executive session. So
at this point I will entertain a motion to go into executive session. Can you just explain that we have to can't do public comment at 7 o'clock anyway, right? Yes, that's correct. Just explain to them. Okay. So we will do ex we will do public
comment as soon as we get back. I can't really project how uh how long the executive session is going to be, but as soon as we get back, we will we will call public uh comment. Well, I'll make a motion to go into executive session.
I'd like to ask a question. Certainly. Well, first we have to get a second before we ask questions. Yes. Okay. So, we have a second, madam. Thank you. Okay. Now, I'd like to discuss something. I um this is an executive session to talk about affordable housing, which I think is pertinent to the entire community. And since we will
not be discussing any litigation or any any um issues regarding litigation um in this uh agenda in in this um session, I would like this to be not not to be an executive session.
Yes. Okay. Well, I would like this to be open to the public. Is there is there anybody else? Councilwoman Scarpa, I I have Okay. No, I don't I don't have anything to say. Councilwoman Skele Celina, sorry.
So, I I agree with Councilwoman that if it we don't have to be in there. We should be here, but unfortunately, I don't think we're going to find out till we get there. So, we could always reconvene back in here. We feel that we're we're speaking we're not covering what we should be covering. We could
come back out here at any time. Okay. Can can we get any information from the administration why this is going to be held in in executive session rather than an open public session? Sure. This is this going into executive session because this is a courtesy. The
the administration does not have to share this plan with the council as is because it's supposed to go to the planning board to be reviewed by them and considered and approved and then it would be back to you for your endorsement at a later date. So, in in what we've spoken about when we since
we've hired the uh the higher grl um is that and in discussion with the council president, we wanted to make sure that you saw what what was being presented to us prior to actually finalizing the plan. So, what we're doing right now is a courtesy um and it's just it's it's
not a final pro uh project yet. So if we're not we don't have a final project, we don't want to start talking about potential litigation or any other issues that we may have in the general public. So that's all this is for. So just so everybody knows, uh there's a
standard form that uh is used throughout the state to ask for an executive session, which is an exception to the state open public meetings act. And it's very limited in what does somebody have a phone on that they could perhaps turn
off or turn down please? Thank you. Uh there's a form that you can use where you can identify one or more of the exceptions. And what is noted on the executive session request is that it is
being done under uh state law that allows for confidentiality. So also under the law, we will have the clerk there. the clerk will take notes and she will publish them publicly once
the situation that caused the confidentiality uh is passed. So uh I have also asked uh Miss Susan Grul who is she and her firm are the affordable housing consultants to the township. I have asked her a
number of questions and I'm certainly certain my colleagues will also ask her questions in the meeting and one of them is what is it that we can dis we are discussing that is supposed to be confidential and what is not because if there's any information we consider uh important to share and that is not
confidential then we will come back here and share it. Council President, I did also want to point out that I believe there is also a fair share housing litigation that was filed. Um, so that if there was any issue with discussing that, it would be better to air on the side of going into
executive for that reason as well. Yeah. Which I would like to That sounds good. And uh the litigation may be the litigation in process. There may be other lawsuits. So uh uh we do need to be careful about that. So is there any other discussion at this
point? No. No. Council Ruden. No. Madame Clerk. Councilwoman Castelino. Uh, yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak.
Yes. The motion carries. Thank you. I now will entertain a motion to uh adjourn until we get back. Do we have to do that? We can do that. Yeah. No, you don't have to. Okay. Thank you.
So we will be back as soon as we can. Hope so. Do you need to announce anything? Yeah. I stared you those into the Zoom audience. Thank you for your patience. Town council has returned from executive session and is ready to resume the
regular meeting. Council President, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. The floor is Madame Clerks. Okay, Council President, I need a motion to return back into our public meeting from executive session. So moved. Second. All in favor?
I. Any opposed? The motion carries. Thank you, Madam Clerk. So, as I promised, we would uh come back and tell you anything of significance that we learned that we could speak uh uh in
accordance and compliance with the strict confidentiality of the uh executive session. And I I don't know if uh we want to just let uh you guys say something, but there's very little we can say. Yeah. Uh but I but I do want to make this
point. This is uh a different process than the third round of affordable housing and the governing body, the town council has much less input and influence over the decision.
The decision is primarily with the planning board and the process will be that the planning board will get the draft uh affordable housing plan and they will go through the process of of
making it public and having a public meeting in which all of you including us the council people that's how we're going to have influence over the plan can go to the public hearing through the planning board and make your wishes
known. The plan will also be made public by the planning board, so you will have a chance to look at it. Is there anything I missed that we can say? No, we're good. Okay. Did you say that it will be noticed 10 days before? I did not go into detail, but please go ahead.
So, when it will be noticed uh 10 days before so that the community will be able to review the entire affordable proposed affordable plan. Um and the real debate or the um the input from the
community is really really necessary at the planning board. It comes back to the town council and at that point we really don't have any input in it. What happens at the planning board is what happens. So please stay involved, watch what's
going on and show up. There are going to be issues of concern for people and you must advocate for your area, your concern at that time at the planning board. Thank you, Councilman. Uh, Councilwoman,
I can't believe I just said that. Excuse me. Uh, now is the time for public comment. I just before we start, I want to confirm uh that we are all on the same page on how public comment is regulated as per our ordinance. But I'm going to see I can see Mr. Fagan
standing up. He's our public information officer and he traditionally kicks off our public comment. So please, Mr. Fagan, I'm just going to save my verbiage till a little bit later. Oh, thank you, Council President. Uh we have a packed uh council chambers here and we have a lot on the agenda, so I
will um get to my report very quickly. Uh I would also like to point out at this time, council president, that uh you had indicated in your email that uh Mr. Plesi would come on directly after me. He is not in attendance this evening. So uh he will not be representing the county uh this evening,
but you did mention that there was a brief presentation uh following me. So uh before we go into public comment, I'd just like to alert uh I believe it was Bev Riley and Sally Malanga that they will be on following uh my public comment. And with that, Council
President, I'd like to uh take me off camera. and begin my comments. Um, I'd like to alert everyone to our website. Uh, some sometimes this is so often overlooked and it is the easiest.
Uh, on our front page of our website scroll, we have all current announcements and these are usually updated daily or every other day or as conditions warrant. And of course, our website is westarge.org org and the website scroll is on the bottom and
you'll see a lot of the announcements, the current announcements and any certainly emergency announcements will be listed there. And at the bottom of the website, we have the township calendar and you'll be able to check that by date and see whatever meetings uh may be going on uh in in the township
of West Orange. Um, one thing that we have listed on our website currently is some uh mosquito control uh tips and important tips on mosquito poofing your home. Uh, this is very useful information and this information is listed on our website.
Also listed on our website. Uh there's been a lot of talk about the um uh spraying in West Orange. uh this this particular event has already happened, but I'd like to point out that when this information comes to us, uh we post it on our website uh as soon as we get the
information and this is not done by the township of West Orange. This is done by the county of Essex and there is contact information uh on west.org about uh whom you can contact for more specific details regarding the mosquito
spring. Um, as you may have heard or be aware that the West Orange Library was temporarily closed due to a um actually a flood and overflow uh a backup auror backup to be more specific and is currently reopen uh but uh it looks like
the lower level remained closed for a while but you go on to their website at woplarmsub library.org uh for more upto-date information. Uh tomorrow night, uh no, I'm sorry, on the 24th, uh there will be
a program at the West Orange Library, New Jersey Property Tax Relief Filing Event. And this is um to discuss many important things that you might need help that seniors might need help with. Uh and this information is posted on the West Orange Public Library website uh
for more information. Uh also um uh on the 23rd uh that's tomorrow uh that um uh representative uh Lam Monica MacGyver will be uh her mobile um uh office is
coming to West Orange Public Library for a presentation. You'll be able to address her for any specific questions. Um as I've been saying at the last council couple council meetings, west.org, or we now have information up there from pets uh up for adoption. Uh you can look at that and uh click on the
link uh for more specific and certainly up-to-date information. Um today is Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, July 24th. Uh we will have our next budget workshop here in council chambers uh beginning at 5:00 p.m. And the uh opac season, as you
may be aware, is underway. Uh there was a successful um uh performance of Jesus Christ Superstar. The next performance is Into the Woods Junior, if I'm reading that right, July 24th and 25th. You can check out uh pleasant
valleyproductions.org for more information and how to purchase tickets uh and what the costs are. We also have on our website uh community notice uh do not feed feral stray cats or feed wildlife. I know that it's very tempting to do that and that's something
you may have been doing. Uh but if you check out the information at westn.org, you'll see why that's not recommended. Uh we also have um scheduled road improvements on um I believe it's South Valley Road. Uh and these details are
posted on our website and this is uh in the scroll as I pointed out at the beginning of my presentation. Uh we also have coming up the lefty bowlan charity golf tournament. Um this is uh this supports uh West Orange um uh sports
events. Uh uh several organizations are involved. Um but I would check out the information uh either on the uh on the wreck web page uh or west.org. This information is posted. Also we have um
important notice regarding rodent control and preventative measures. Preventative measures are very important. Of course, uh you know, controlling the rodent population in West Orange or any town is important and taking preventative measure uh and being aware of them is equally as important.
And with that, uh Council President, that concludes my uh present my report for tonight. I can go on if you would like, but I'm sure you'd like me to sit down. Uh so, at this point, if Sally and Bev come up, I'll ceue up your presentation. [Music] Yes. And just for some background,
because we did not have a conference agenda today, uh Miss Bev Riley and Miss Sally Manga wanted to speak uh in the time that we are working on the budget and so I agreed to let them come up here to have a presentation and to speak for
no longer than 10 minutes. They can combine each of their five minutes of public comment. So, uh Madame Clerk, you only have to call them after 10 minutes as opposed to five. Please guys, please go ahead. Pulling them up right now.
I'll just wait and go. Do I give you my name and address? Bev Riley Lennox Terrace. So, our town council has been working very hard, diligently trying to make
adjustments to the township budget, and we're here to help. We have a suggestion to reduce our township budget by a half a million dollars. How are we going to do that?
Do you remember when we were little or younger, leaves were for fun? They were for jumping in for family time. And then somewhere around the 1970s,
there was a change. As a result of that change, gas combustible engines that were portable, we could now spend upwards of $350
to have all of our leaves blown to the street and make huge mountains of leaves, creating safety hazards for cars in the road. and also having those leaves result in flooding because they would
wash into our storm drains and into our sewers. We bought costly equipment, big machines to collect and suck up those leaves and transport them. Are you aware
that we as taxpayers pay a half a million dollars a year to suck up those leaves and transport them? We as homeowners are now spending on an average $630
a year to buy and spread mulch onto our beds in our gardens. Some of us do it ourselves. Some of us hire people in those leaves that we are discarding
are homes to our pollinators. Moths, bees, moths, caterpillars. Those insects live in the leaves and that's where they harbor in the winter.
So when we discard the leaves, we're also discarding another generation of insects. What should we do about that? We should save money and reuse those leaves. We have a bounty of leaves in West
Orange. We have old oak trees that drop leaves that help preserve insects, feed birds, preserve our pollinators. Let's not blow it. Do you remember when we were little, we
had so many lightning bugs that we could fill jars with them? We haven't seen lightning bugs for a long time, but this year we've seen some and it rekindles our memories of having those fireflies amid amongst us.
Birds are suffering because they don't have insects to eat because we're discarding them. I'm sorry, butterflies, they're missing from our gardens. Our things, our plants can't get
pollinated without insects. Birds and small mammals count on those insects to survive. And so we have three billion less birds than we've ever had before. What are we doing to the environment?
Let's return to a time when leaves were for fun, for mulch, for nature, and not treated as trash. Leaves are resources. It's free fertilizer for us. It helps to prevent
flooding. It enriches our clay soil. It's up to us. It's up to you. It's up to me, our neighbors, to make a change. to save our own money, to save our environment, and to save this township a
half a million dollars. Let's do it. Name and address, please. Valley Malanga Ridge Road. So, our Green West, our Green West Orange members and residents are feeling
more and more excited about this cost savings. Beverly spoke so well about the history of of how we ended up in this corner, this this wrong direction of taking care of our our homes and how costly it is. So, every
autumn, our town spends that money, that half a million dollars. And that's according to the mayor's numbers on something that's actually making life worse. It also costs up us up to $1,000 to blow leaves to the street. That's a lot of
money. And what do we get for it? A town full of deafening gas power blower noise blasting leaves from dawn until dusk for the entire autumn. Other towns have figured this out. They're mulching leaves back into the earth. They're saving money. They're
cutting down on the pollution. We presented a letter in that presentation from the town of Irvington, New York. The letter explains to the residents what the town's position is, why they're
saving the money, why they will no longer be picking up the leaves. So, West Orange, uh, you know, we've been presenting this idea for three years now, and West Orange keeps spending and spending and getting less and less. The mayor wants us to continue
doing something that makes no sense anymore. So, I see that we have an audience filled with West Orange Arts Council here asking for their small gallery to remain open, but the council has to cut the budget and close it. People are
asking for parks, but the council has to say no. But will the council say no to blowing leaves to the streets for 500,000? I hope so. Let's put an end to this waste and stop
losing our advantages in the arts and the quality of life. Let's cancel the leaf collection. Tell people that the residents that we had no choice but to save the money. Everyone will manage just fine. Landscapers will save the time and get
more clients. Our Green West Orange and master gardeners will help get the word out, as well as I hope everyone here will do as well. Let's all save each homeowner a thousand bucks and let's save our town half a million and repurpose it for the arts, for trees,
and for parks. Thank you very much. Thank you. Wait. What's What's What's going on here? What's going on here? Okay. I Oh, I did. Okay.
I'm sorry. I did shut down. Oh, okay. Okay. It's no problem. Uh, just before we start, I just I see a lot of faces I haven't seen here before. So before we get started on this, I just want to explain uh what we what our
process is uh particularly as it's regulated by our ordinance. Uh to start with, we recently returned to the practice of public speakers speaking from the podium next to the deis. It should improve the audience's ability to hear and understand the speaker. We cannot line
up in the aisles as in recent meetings. if you want and to save time between speakers, I would s normally suggest you move closer to the front of the benches, but it doesn't look like there's a lot of room down here. So, uh, what I will do is is call on people and, uh, I'll
call for a raise of hands and I'll call on a couple of people, uh, to keep try to keep the process going. Once you are recognized by the chair, you can speak for up to five minutes. Please be concise to speed up the process and you don't have to use all five minutes.
Please everyone speak directly into the microphone and as loudly as you feel comfortable doing. After everyone has commented we on the deis may respond. Public comment in our ordinance requires the speaker to first state their name
and address. If you don't want to give your street name, just give the street. It helps us with putting together our minutes. Uh our ordinance also says that uh conduct by public comment speakers uh shall at no time engage in any
personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule. Council shall be forth with barred I'm sorry. Well, the person who is addressing the council shall be forth with barred by the presiding officer,
that's me, and further audience before the council except that if the speaker shall submit to proper order under these rules, permission for him or her to continue may be granted by a majority vote of the council. The council is a place to discuss our differences and
often to find compromise to make West Orange an even better place to live. So I urge all of us to treat everyone as they would like to be treated. You can make your point without cursing or insulting anyone. And I and the good officer will enforce the ordinance. So
now I just want to ask right now if anybody would like to speak a public comment just raise your hand and I'm going to pick out a couple of people. We already have someone who's already been up to the so so please come and then there's someone right next to her. Uh oh that's Ms. Latrono. So, Miss Morrono and
then there's a hand in front of her. So, we've got the next three people. You, Miss Matron, and the person in front. Okay. Okay. So, please start by your name and address. Lyanna Theres Vulpe, Ronald Terrace,
30-year homeowner, taxpayer, six-year volunteer and gift shop manager at the West Orange Arts Council. And if there were this many people that showed up to the art gallery every week for a few hours, I wouldn't be about to say the
comments that I'm going to. I'm here tonight to advocate for a new home for the West Orange Arts Council Art Gallery and Gift Shop. It is that my It is my feeling that unless we get more financial aid and volunteer support, we
should not stay in our current location. And I am very very truly sorry if I'm disappointing my beloved friends and family of artists and volunteers, but I believe there is too much struggle to
get support and volunteers. And it is too it's time to consider a new home, a new model. Perhaps the community room across from the library. Maplewood has just done this, placing their art gallery near their library. When
preparing my remarks for tonight, a Seinfeld episode came to mind. The one where Baboo, the restaurant owner, tells Jerry, "But still, nobody comes. Where are the people?" To me, this seems to be
our main problem. Nobody comes. Well, I guess that's not completely true because we do have fantastic robust special events every few months and opening receptions and about every other month where 50 or more visitors come to enjoy
artwork and food and music for a few hours on one day, but the next day nobody comes. The next weeks, nobody comes. Nobody's cleaning up. Nobody's sweeping the front steps. Nobody's washing the windows. Where are the
people? And we struggled to get promotion and volunteers. Did you happen to see News12 New Jersey coverage of our Hispanic Heritage Month exhibition? Anyone? Well, nobody came. Nobody came for days that was airing.
Maybe one or two people in the weeks after. Surely you would think that everyone would crowd our gallery after NBC Universal featured us after Saturday Night Live highlighting the Valley Arts District as the best in New Jersey. No,
nobody came. Nobody came for after that coverage. I asked the few people who come how they hear of us. Usually they are driving by and saw the flag outside. I personally have put in over 2,000 volunteer hours in the gallery cleaning,
soliciting, hosting. You all have seen me giving gallery tours, even a highly descriptive tour for a blind visitor. I planned workshop displaying handmade crafts in our beautiful gift shop and still nobody comes and not I am not the
only one putting in so many hours. I hear many complaints. We are not open enough. We have no parking. I find that people don't even really understand what we are. I handd delivered flyers in our neighborhood and provoke promoted
walking distance activities like rock painting to the Gregory neighborhoods. But still nobody comes and I was painting rocks all by myself. Imagine with me for a moment a group of friends, a young couple or an elderly couple, a
family out and about on a Saturday or Sunday, enjoying shopping in Essex Green, grabbing a Starbucks, making their trip to the library, and then maybe seeing some beautiful colored flags waving in the air, maybe a mural
on the building, or some colored swirls of paint on canvases hung, welcoming passers by and visitors to the community art gallery of West Orange. A place that an artist knows that there will be a lot
of possibility for their artwork to be viewed. Where we can get volunteers to support art, music, spoken word, diversity, creativity, the things that makes Western Orange so special. A location where we can get the attention
and visibility that we deserve wherever we end up. either in the present location, which I'm fine with if you all want to come. Um, we must continue our dynamic
organization. It's a very special group of people who support creativity, diversity, inclusion, and a warm, welcoming atmosphere that improves and enhances all the lives of West Orange deeply. I
should know a few years ago when my mother was 94 she a gallery exhibition just a second uh on her abstract expressionist artwork and on view to the public and the mayor and the council
gave us this proclamation which my family holds dear to our hearts to this day. Thank you. Thank you ma. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. That's
good evening. I have the air conditioner to deal with, so I hope you can hear me. My name is Patricia Matrano and Walker Road West Orange. Council President Graiac, fellow council members,
administration, and all of our our passionate volunteers and uh and um residents of West Orange and surrounding communities. I'm here today on behalf of the West Orange Arts Council where I have the
privilege of serving as board chair. Tonight, I urge our town leaders to maintain support for the West Orange Arts Center. Each year with passion and purpose, our working board and dedicated volunteers,
which you've heard from and you will hear from uh more tonight, design and produce inclusive programming, support artists, and create opportunities for people of all ages to experience the power of the arts. For the last 25
years, the West Orange Arts Council has brought people together, creating unity and creativity. Whether it's our recent Juneenth Women's History or Black History Month exhibits, our current summer love and show
workshops, and an upcoming hopefully Hispanic Heritage collaboration, you only need to visit our website to see the photo galleries and videos that capture the spirit of community, acceptance, and joy that the arts generate in our town. We've built a
welcoming environment where creative passions thrive and new voices are heard. We're proud to support both seasoned professionals and aspiring young artists. Our West Orange High School exhibition celebrates student talent while teaching realworld skills
like gallery management and marketing. The West Orange Art Center is also a cultural anchor. Through our collaboration with Lunar Stage and many other partners in the valley, we've helped revitalize the Valley neighborhood, bringing new energy, new
audiences, and new customers to local businesses. As and we are not alone. Towns like Maplewood, Montlair, and Newark have embraced the arts as a cornerstone of community of community life and local economic development. West Orange sits
right between them. Let's not fall behind. Let's keep building on the momentum we've created to ensure West Orange is seen as a town that values and invests in the arts. We understand that budgets are tight, but cutting the rent subsidy,
a modest investment as compared to the the whole town budget would jeopardize everything we've worked so hard to build. It would send the wrong message that the arts and the people who make them are expendable. To our town council, I invite you to
visit the gallery, explore the gift shop, attend an event, or speak with us directly. Come see the impact yourself. You hear from me, you'll hear from many tonight, and more have already sent letters of and messages of support. And
I have them with me. I'd like to present to the council and to our community. We need you. Join us. Attend an art reception and an arts council board meeting. volunteer behind the scenes. It's not just about what what is
presented the night of the the reception. This programming doesn't happen by chance. It happens because a group of passionate creatives make it happen. But to grow, we need more than artists. We need people with diverse experiences.
Planners, program managers, realators, fundraisers, lawyers, community champions like yourself. people who believe in the power of the arts to strengthen West Orange. It is up to all of us to preserve this space and all that it represents. Support, please
support the West Orange Arts Center and affirm and affirm that the arts are not extra but essential. Thank you. So, two things. Yes, please come up. Please come up. Uh, two things. Again,
because you're new here, you don't necessarily know that we prefer, strongly prefer that there's no uh clapping from the audience. If you want to clap again, please go outside. Uh, the second thing is because there's so
many here, so many people here, likely a lot of you want to speak. I'm going to try to hold you to the five minute limit. Again, you don't have to use the whole 5 minutes, but when you hit 5 minutes, I'm going to stop you cuz we've got to get these people through and
we've got to move on to the rest of the agenda. So, please go ahead. Lisa Ces Malarkey Drive. I'm a visual artist, an art gallery director, and a curator. I'm also a lifelong resident of the town
of West Orange, having gone through all the West Orange schools, which used to be called Pleasantale, Lincoln, and Mountain. And my three kids also went to Gregory, Roosevelt, and West Orange High. Um, I recently retired. I'm a
founding member of the West Orange Arts Council and I recently retired after serving 25 years on the Arts Council board and I ret resigned. It after 25 years you need to do that.
Um and it really pains me to hear that there is a risk of the art center disappearing. It's Historically, the West Orange Arts Council, and this was mostly before the
Arts Center was part of the Arts Council, they've been part of the most important projects the town has undertaken. The murals that people see throughout the town, the cows, the light bulbs, and
other public sculpture were all created with the support and often the leadership of the West Orange Arts Council. Now we have a home, and it's a home that makes us able to do more than casual programs. We have a real
investment. West Orange is ethnically a very diverse town and the variety of benefits provided by the arts council supports that diversity. Remember that diversity means d a diversity of interests and abilities as well as
ethnicities. The West Orange Arts Council honors the many ethnic heritage celebrations in town by adding an artsbased component which creates artsbased opportunities for residents. In addition to a robust representation
of West Orange artists, artists from nearby towns look forward to participating in the West Orange Arts Council shows and workshops. Our neighboring suburbs have realized the importance of the arts to a town's
appeal. It is a commitment that West Orange needs to make, too. And the West Orange Arts Council and through the Arts Council, the Arts Center is the perfect vehicle for this. They the arts are a meaningful factor when people decide
where to live and have proven time and again to be an important engine for growth. The West Orange Arts Council prioritizes the town's quality of life by acknowledging this fact through its offerings at the Arts Center. In
addition, artists of all media experiences, interests, and abilities have found a home at the West Orange Arts Center. For example, the I'll and I'll do this a little more detailed than Patricia did. The art center has hosted West Orange High School's AP studio art
class annual exhibition having h of their work. Having an exhibit at an outside facility blends a truly professional aspect to their studies. Learning how to mount and
present a show supplements their arts studio arts curriculum. It's the kind of opportunity that would not exist without the art center. The $40,000 that we have been quoted as
a an annual cost to the town to support the West Orange Arts Center annually is but a spit in the financial bucket when weighed against the value it offers it by enhancing our town's quality of life and rounding out its appeal to
residents. Don't be pennywise and pound foolish. Keep the West Orange Arts Council an active commission. Keep the West Orange Arts Center a valuable part of this town's offerings to its residents. Show you understand the importance of the arts to the diversity
of our town. I'm happy to answer questions. Thank you. Thank you. So, I didn't I didn't remember to ask. Please, you can sit down with us. Thanks very much. I need to uh get some other people. We've got two people sitting here in the front
row. Uh yes, you can come on up please now and then you'll be next. And uh I see some hands in the in the back. I see a very far hand on the very far left. I can't see who's raising. Yes, you can be next. Please go ahead. Good evening. My name is Barbara Saxs.
I'm not a West Orange resident. I'm a Livingston resident, Riker Hill Road, but I have lived in living in West Orange for 20 years. I grew up here. I was educated here and it was through the West Orange education system that uh
strongly encouraged me to go into the arts. I was an art teacher for 40 years and I continue to support the arts by being the Arts Council of Livingston president for the last 10 years. We look at the West Orange Arts Council as our
sister organization. We have often been a little bit of jealous of their uh beautiful facility. We have often looked to them for guidance to see some of the things that they've done. In the past 15 years, we have had six different
locations. We understand what it is to lose a gallery. We understand what it is to lose a home for the arts and so in some cases we have had to move very quickly. Our town Livingston has been very supportive of us and just recently
they have given us a green space. Uh it is a former Lucari horse farm, 9 acres with a little house and they said you can use that as your gallery until we find you a more permanent space. Our town council and our mayor understand
the value that the arts bring to the community. We have people who move to our town. as people move to the town of West Orange. I know this because I grew up here. I had property here until 2013 for the education and also for the arts
and culture that we want to give our residents and our children. So, the Arts Council of Livingston and West Orange, we I see us as sister organizations. We work together. We understand how important the arts are to our towns and
to our communities. What we bring brings value to everyone. It brings value to the people who buy homes here, the people who remain here. We are not just a town of budgets. But unfortunately, when the budget becomes tight, the arts
become somewhat invisible and we are pushed into a corner. $40,000 is, as has been mentioned, just a spit in the bucket. And we understand that budgets must be met. We have a very close relationship with our town council and
our mayor. We understand what's going on with affordable housing and everything that has to be uh passed through the town council. But the arts are not stepchildren. We are important. We matter. We matter to
everyone. And what happens to one of us happens to all of us. So to have a good standard of life, to understand what it is to have a community, you need the arts. We cannot do anything if we don't
support our arts. So please, I appeal to the town council. Please allow West Orange Arts Council to maintain their space. It's a beautiful space. it has been used to the advantage of the community and it is a value that we we
actually can't place a numerical value on that. We cannot do that. So I and I hope that everybody here understands that. Please support the West Orange Arts Council. They deserve it. They need
it and so do all of you. Thank you. Thank you. Seth Boyletter. Uh how drive uh members of the council administration guests uh a few different subject matters. First the microphone and audio
system. It's frustrating unacceptable in 2025. They made a previous request was told it's going to be fixed. But this becomes it erodess our meetings during zoning, town council, public hearings with the air conditioner going on and
off. There's already enough frustration. Let's get it fixed. It should be a priority. Priority one. Two, mayor versus town council lawsuit. We're talking about leave saving money. As a resident, I'm deeply concerned about this ongoing legal battle between the
mayor and the council. Regardless of who is right, we the taxpayers are footing this bill. You're for West Orange. This is our money that you're using for an infight. Not fair. There should be full disclosure, full disclosure of all the
legal expenses so far. And as leaders have a plan to prevent this kind of dysfunction in the future. It's still continuing and it's not over. And we're still going to have dysfunction. This political infighting doesn't help. I know we can agree, all agree on that.
It's time to lead like adults, not litigants. We're all losing. Third, developers running rampant without a planner. We need a town planner. How are we approving massive projects without a full-time planner in place? It's like building a house
without an architect. Overdevelopment without a cohesive plan. Vision strains our roads, schools, and public safety. We need smarter growth. West Orange is being shaped by our developers more than by the people that live here. And that's
unacceptable. Without a town planner, there's no strategic vision growth guiding our growth. We're reacting instead of leading and developers are exploiting West Orange like a vacuum, pushing oversized projects, threatening lawsuits when challenged. Just in the
news the other day, there was a lawsuit. We have another one coming. Someone stood here before the town council threatening a lawsuit. Let's be clear, developers should not be planning West Orange. The people should. Until we put a town planner in place and
commit to smart communitydriven growth, we need to stand up and speak out. One, two, three, four. Fourth sidewalk cafe ordinance. I get it. We got to do something with it. We're going to have our first
meeting. are the enforcement of it feels arbitrary. This is not really how we support local businesses and entrepreneurs. Let's work together. Let's find this balance. I also believe that providing the town
downtown alliance with approval for design or economic development zones or improvement districts with the authority to approve designs for outside cafes will make this um a little easier and better aesthetically and be able to work
together not just putting it in our own zoning. In addition with the sidewalk cafe ordinance, we define what an amplification device is. It's a an amplification device refers to
any that is any equipment or technology used to increase the volume or projection of sound. Are we prohibiting speakers, amplifiers, juice boxes, digital music players, karaoke machines? Are we going to permit outdoor TVs and monitors or microphones
connected to external speakers? We're not just focused on downtown and two properties. We're focused on the entire town. This has implications and we need to clearly define what's going to be prohibited and what's going to be permitted
because we got to make sure this is fair for everyone. If you're going to hold a political event at a town council and you need a microphone and plug it in, you're breaking the law and you're you're putting that business in jeopardy. Just saying. Third, on this uh sidewalk
cafe uh chapter on number two on this, it says some form of formal space delineation such as removal fence. I think we need to say the word decorative in there to make sure that we're clearly defining what we're looking for. I looked up removal fence and that can be
about almost anything. So, those are my comments this evening and I think we need to get our house in order. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Weiss Leader. There's somebody from the back. I want to pick some people over here on the right side. I can see a hand up here on the next to
the wall. You can be the next speaker. Um there's someone in a a beautiful pink shirt or peach. You're next. and then uh the person in front of him uh after him. Okay, please go ahead. Sorry. Hi. Hi everybody.
Um Jacqueline Hendy uh Beverly Road. So um I am here today not just as a taxpayer but as somebody who cares deeply about the future of our town. And like many others, I'm angry. I'm disheartened. I'm tired of Sorry. Is
that better? Sorry. I'll eat. I'll eat. We don't do this, guys. Okay. You're the audience. You're listening to the speaker. When you speak out, nobody can hear what the speaker is saying. And that should be what we're designed for. Okay? It's a It's hard to hear. So, I'll speak
up. I do because it's hard to No, I can't hear what you guys hear. Hold on. Hold on, guys. This is not some sort of of group project. All right? This is a council meeting. If you want to say whatever you want to
say, please go outside. All right. It's hard enough to hear as it is without a lot of people saying louder. Please. Okay. I'll try to remind people when they come up here to speak louder, but please stop
speaking out from the from the audience. Is this better everybody? Okay. So, I am just I like I was saying, like many others, I'm angry. I'm disheartened. I'm tired of watching the same dysfunction
play out over and over with accountability. I know that a lot of the things that I'm going to be talking about are kind of done, but I just wanted to air this out so that people can number one put this on the record and just so that you can hear what I and
many people hope for the future of our town. So, I want to talk about the library and it recently shut down because it flooded and it's not just inconvenient, it's symbolic. A vital public institution crammed into a building that was put and now we're
paying the price literally. Compare that with reconstructed library, modern, accessible, and built for the future. We had the chance to do something similar. Instead, we got a money hit. a band-aid
on a bullet wound. And now the person who oversaw this say it even though we stand thank you for your service. Um this person just got promoted and is now our business administrator. How is that on
the table? How does that make sense? Where is the accountability? Why is nobody ever held responsible? Why are the same people wearing multiple hats while this town slides into litigation and financial instability? It feels like
we are exchanging competence for comfortable familiarity. And now we're facing voter remedy lawsuits which I understand starts with this is a direct result of CW and planning and again nobody
answering for it. I understand that the mayor is this town's chief chief executive. The administration department heads day operations are the buck stops at the mayor's office and while the council plays a critical role
in oversight, legislation and budgeting and I commend those among you fighting to do that. I see you. Thank you. Uh the mayor is ultimately responsible for the direction, performance and competence of this administration. So given that you have so little power,
we really needed five voices sitting at the deas. And I'm disappointed that you neglected to fill the seat of Ammerit's departure. And I want to thank Councilwoman Mubin for having the courage to call it out. It certainly look around. You guys are here because
the people, most of you are here because the people of West Orange have said enough. Enough of the same names, the same excuses, the same neglect. West Orange is 70% non-white. Are we really going to pretend it was unclear about what the right thing to do was in
filling that seat? It's disheartening to look around at nearly every leadership position in our town and see no reflection of our beautifully diverse community. And I want to close. I understand the task ahead of you is difficult, more difficult than I and
many others in this room can grasp. I do respect that many of you genuinely want what's best for West Orange. I think you understand how exhausted, financially stressed, and frustrated our residents now. But right now, from the library to
litigation to leadership failures, we are not seeing accountability that reflects the best interests of this community. We are not asking for miracles. We're asking for good government. And we need your help to keep fighting for the change. West
Orange desperately needs. Thank you so much. Thank you respectfully and hopefully. Thank you. I'm sorry. Change the mic. Okay, if you can.
That might isn't as it doesn't project as well as that one. That's why I put that one up there. Thanks. And I want to remind you to speak as loudly as you feel comfortable so that everybody can hear and they won't yell out and drown your words, please. So get as close to the microphone as you can, please. Name and
and address and go at it. Good evening. My name is Kim Alexander Cook. I'm not a resident of West Orange. I'm here representing an organization that did fund the West Orange Arts Council. Uh excuse me. The council did
receive a letter from our president. Um the the organization is New Jersey Arts and Renewal Fund. I serve as a board of trustee member. I also am a board of trustee member for Newark arts. So like my sister from Livingston, we also see
the arts council as a sister organization. So, I'm here to support them to un for and I know that the council will make whatever decision you need to make, but I felt like I needed to be here for you to make an informed decision. You don't want to just look at
the money. Money is real and that's an issue. But the impact that the organization has on the community is also a real issue and also an important factor to consider. The arts bring
communities together. The arts celebrate diversity. It gives the community an opportunity to express what they see and feel in ways that maybe they don't find words for. I can tell you I'm also a member of the arts council. I will tell
you that it impacted me directly during the pandemic. I work in a major medical center and so when everybody was home, we were there every day. My daughter worked in the co ICU and I'm there every day. The arts council did a workshop on
collage. I learned the collage at the workshop. Doing the collage saved me during the pandemic because it gave me an opportunity to express the things that I couldn't fathom in terms of the number
of people that are co-workers that were getting sick with COVID. the patients who were getting sick with COVID ourselves being exposed to a disease that no one that came out of nowhere and was taking people out. So having that opportunity to take those classes, learn
that thing, I still do that now. I even had an opportunity to display my work as part of the the arts council um with other real artists. I'm going to say real. Um and that that healed me. So I
want the council to understand that it's not just about creativity for the sake of beauty. It has a real impact on the people of your community and it gives them if people are better are healed emotionally, they are better able to
function in the community. They are better able to serve as in their families. they're better able to be a part, be productive and and feel good about what they do and about their life. So for me, that's why I'm here. Again,
like my sister from Livingston, we're here as from two organizations, Newark Arts and the New and the New Jersey Arts and Recovery and Renewal Fund. We did fund the the f the the Arts Council. We're responsible for throughout the
state. So, we can't give everybody all the money that they would like, but we're here. You got a letter from our president because we believe that locally it's important for people to have access to the arts. Everybody's not going to the Metropolitan Museum. Everybody's not going to the
Smithsonian. But having access to the arts and the healing powers of the arts within your community is important. And so that's why we're here to state that to you and thank you for your time. So here's to remind you to try to speak
as loudly as you feel comfortable doing as close to the microphone as possible so everybody can hear you. Please. Uh my name is Bruce Lefcon, 22 Okconor Circle in West Orange. I thank you for this opportunity.
Um it's about um three weeks ago that uh everybody in my community along Crystal Lake received notice from an engineering firm hired by the town that we had 15 days to rep to reply to uh a um a notice
about construction um under a new grant uh on Crystal Lake and at the Oscar Schindler Oscar Schindler Performing Arts That grant was uh obtained um about a year ago in August of of 24
and uh this is the first that we heard of it and this one stipulation of this grant was that the work has to be completed by December of this year. So there's a whole rush about this whole project. Uh the project called for
construction of three floating docks on Crystal Lake. Um, believe it or not, the square footage of the docks were 500, 500, and 950 square feet. That's huge. I don't know of any docks in the world that are that big. That's very large.
Um, it also um and then a subsequent uh note came from the town. Well, it's down to two docks. Um, original note from the town said they would make a paved pathway. Uh, now it's down to uh that was crossed out. Uh part of that grant
is also going to improvements at the Oscar Schindler Center from speakers to uh stadium seating. And um one of the docks, the largest dock close to Oscar Schindler Center is uh is
plotted out to be for kayaks or canoes or something. Where people would get those how they would get their kayaks to that area to use them, I don't know. Um, when I first moved into this development 23 years ago, I bought a uh lightweight
uh Khan, if you could just keep your mouth close to the microphone. I apologize for interrupting. Yes, thank you. I took it around the lake to the other side. I put it in I put it in twice and tried to row it and I ended up just donated donating it to a friend of Lake of Patcon. I couldn't row it because the
weeds come up to within 4 inches of the top. I don't know if anybody from the town ever figured that when a when they're making huge plans to put a big dock there. Um there's also in those plans something about some beach sand and a hot and a heated shower. For what
purpose? It wasn't stated whether it would be for swimming or not. Um they say the dock would be for fishermen. Um again I walk around the lake as many of us do. We never see more than a handful of fishermen. And if I
would speak to the fishermen, I don't think they would want to be on a dock out in the sun, but rather in the shade of the trees along the shoreline doing their fishing. So, I'm not sure the dock is necessary for that purpose. Um, sorry,
there's a playground proposed also. Um, the location was not uh cited for that. Uh, basically my position is and the I I live on the lake. One of those docks is supposed to be in the water. It be about 40 feet from my backyard, not exactly
the um millure I thought I was moving to when I chose this area, this house 23 years ago. Um, I think it was hastily conceived and it should be soundly rejected except perhaps for some of the improvement at Oscar Schindler. And I
thank you. Yeah. Thank you. You're the next person, Mr. Panillo. Mr. Penullo, you're the next person. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? I see a hand raised right here in the second row. You're next. And then
there I think it's uh Mr. Ziz, you can be the next person. And then there's somebody in the blue. Uh yes, sure. Is is that you, Dagmar? Okay, you're the third person, please. Thank you. Please speak into the
microphone so everybody can hear you. Yes, sir. My name is Joseph Panulo. I live in Essex Falls within 200 foot notice area of the West Sussex Highlands proposed project. I'm the president of WeCare, the objector at the planning board approaching the 15th meeting July 30th
next week. The meetings that are going on are about a proposed 496 units and four buildings at top the headquarters of Canadrook. Most people by now should know about that. U
I understand this evening that there was closed session because the affordable housing plan for the township of West Orange uh is exposed to builder's remedy. the fourth round in June for which again uh third round ending June 30th wasn't met. Uh we're in the midst
of an affordable housing project that defies public safety and irreparable environmental harm. I would not have anticipated two years ago when I got involved in this that that possibility could be replicated across this town by
design, which is to say by not preventing it on purpose. I know this council is new. I know that the law that brought the new fourth round rules was passed approximately 15 months ago last year. And at that time, it was time
to hire a planner. There are not as many planners in the state of New Jersey as there are municipalities 560 some odd. Every single one of them had to get a planner to have to figure out how to comply with the new rules. that was not possible in two months or three months.
And I know because I've had to hire planners for this project. They're not easy to find and they're even harder to find when there's a demand for them because of a new law. The problem in this town was avoidable, but it was
avoidable before this council took office. And anybody who's ever been a part of anything that was successful, whether it was a championship, a business, or anything that took a lot of effort, would know that the success is not as remarkable for actually what happens, but is more remarkable for
those things which did not happen on purpose. And what could have not happened on purpose here was to have had a planner here a year ago to begin building the plan. Now, there is at least one builder's remedy. I sat here myself two months ago and heard the
threat of another. I know there's more. The case that is going to be the West Sussex Highlands when the planning board is done is most likely going to become unfortunately a case precedent setting example of exactly what not to do with
an affordable housing project. Because under Mount Laurel too and under any rule of common sense principle public health safety morals and welfare public safety and irreparable h environmental harm supersede affordable housing and
we're not opposed to affordable housing. There have been hundreds of comments at the planning board in the last year and not one person has spoken in favor. This is not opposition to affordable housing. there's a right place to do this kind of thing and this was not the right place and that was knowable years ago when
this was entered into and it was knowable by the people that did better and should have prevented it. We'll get into what criteria it didn't meet but what is going to be case precedent setting here because no matter who wins at the point of going to be appealed is that this is an irreparable
environmental harm. This is a public safety threat. Now we will be bringing a man named Dr. John Hassie from Rowan University Geospatial Lab is an expert who I have offered to this town six months ago to help. He will come in and
demonstrate that the entire headquarters of the Cano Brook is a flood corridor that the condos that exist now are in a flood plane. That's knowable. His data is the most current data set available. It is acceptable at the fair share
housing, the DCA, the D. It's recognized. I offer you I understand there is supposed to be a relationship with hierogly and that may be helping the town. I don't know how that prevents a builder's remedy that hasn't started yet. I would urge the council now if
such a piece of paper exists bringing this group in to help build the plan that you disclose whatever paperwork has been executed if they haven't already filed for an extension to mitigate the exposure of builder's remedy. Fair housing has been granting extensions
liberally 30 60 days because of the new law because of the complications with having planners. This is possible. This place is the most forested mountainous town in Essex County which is the most densely populated county in the most
densely populated state in all of North America. It floods. It's got steep slopes. It's got collapses. What the hell is going on here? I don't need to be at the planning board fighting something for years that's never going to get built. It shouldn't happen. Thank
you for your time. Was that loud enough for you? Oh, thank you, Mr. Pulo. I heard you loud and clear. Good evening. Can you all hear me? Okay, that was hard to follow. My name is Seoro. I live on um Hutton Half here in
town. Um I first want to say thank you to each and every one of you for the time that you're serving. I know that it's not easy. I know that it takes time, energy. Um and you get scrutinized. You're under the microscope. So I recognize that. Um I am sometimes one of those people who scrutinize you, but that's because I
care. Um I give credit when credit is due and I criticize when I feel like we can do better as a community. Um I just want to be clear that I wear many hats in the community. Right now the comments I make are my own. it does not represent any other organization I may be part of. Um I attended the most of the the the
budget workshops online and uh they've been insightful. Um I understand uh between um you know the the budget going up and and the reassessment everyone is feeling it from board of education taxes individual there's a real effort to be conservative with the budget and as a
resident I understand that. Um the other side of that, what I'm noticing is um unfortunately some of the line items that the newer council members may not be as familiar with um tend to be quick to be put on the chopping block. Um an example of that is the EAP employee
assistance program. Most of you were not familiar with it at the time. Um uh and the West Orange Arts Council also fell in that category as well. And um it was uh it was interesting to see that just like any other you know commercial
tenant uh some were proposing to give 30 days 60 days to vacate. So that to me lets me know that most don't understand why it was even established or what the value is and hopefully today you've heard from some of the the uh the leaders the board members and and the uh
volunteers on what the value is. So I looked up on on the website. I mean, I've I I know about the council and and you know, I know some of the value, but I decided to look up the website. It looks like it was founded in 1998 by the town. Um, and so my question is, you know, what was the vision when it was
created then? And was there was the plan to provide indefinite financial help? Um, or was there some type of a business plan where perhaps at some point the council would be able to support itself and if so, was the proper support and resources and people been offered? Um it
looks like there was a council lease on before. Um so I'm I'm curious anytime there's a a change in in council membership what your internal process looks like to make sure that these organizations and committees remain to have those leadership um and the support
that you know they were expecting so that we're not leaving organizations to fend for themselves. So here's what it says on the website. Um, out of many other things, the mission is through education, community outreach, arts programming, and facility enhancement, the West Orange Arts Council strives to
enrich and enliven the quality of life of residents of the township of West Orange. I myself included in my own marketing when I list homes, right? So, what does that look like re-imagined? So, has the purpose and the mission of the council changed perhaps from 1998? And what what does that what should that
look like? So many have mentioned there are some u features amenities our town doesn't have that we'd like to have. So we don't have a community center for example right where we can offer different programs for all ages and groups. I would love love for us to have adult school in town as an example. The
town I came from had it. I know that surrounding towns have it. I've kind of you know flirted with the idea on social media about what do you all think right? Um, so this could be that perhaps what we need to do is reimagine what the council can be above and beyond um what
it was set set out to be in 1998. Um, I can tell you that the council um came to the rescue when the library abruptly closed due to plumbing issues. I had about 10 families expecting to be there the next morning. Um, and I found out
about the uh the plumbing issue and it was the council that came to the rescue as I'm offering a free and a personal communication program for middle and high school this season. So, they came to the rescue. That's where um it was and um Lyanna is the face of the organization. She's a volunteer. She
opened the place for me on Saturdays on her own time, right? Um in fact, one of the assignments that I gave the students was to observe the town council meeting and give me feedback. They had interesting commentary about um each of our council members. Um
so my clients love the unique gifts I get them from the council. So have we thought about using resources we already have to create win-win strategies. So the council has volunteer boards. Um we know Lyanna is the organization and I know she works super hard to promote the council and all its offering. She's the one who volunteered to open the door for
me. So have we partnered or have we thought about partnering with the older adult advisory committee for example to come up with a way to cover business hours? because it's a catch22 as she mentioned the problem is there's not enough support to keep it open because it's not open people are not coming right um so I just want to share my
thoughts there and make sure that we're using all the resources we have and how we go about solving this problem is going to say a lot about how we solve every other problem in town thank you thank you please come on up who else would like to
speak I see a hand up here in the second or third row just yes You're next. Is there anybody else? And then there's somebody in a Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I take this back. Hold on just a second. I'm sorry. I already appointed you as the next
speaker, so I I apologize, Miss Hopson. Uh, and then there's somebody next to her with raising his hand with a big ring on it with glasses. You're next. And then there are two people back there. I can see uh uh the hero of Okay. Yeah, you two guys are
sitting together. You guys fight about who goes next. Okay. After after the young man in the blue shirt. Please go ahead, Mr. Ziz. And I'll get back to you. You're you're after them, those two women. Okay. Oh, share those. No, you Sorry. I apologize. I apologize. I'm getting
confused here. So, after Miss Hopson, you're the next person, right? Yes. And then we're going to go back over here. Okay. Please go ahead, Mr. Ziz. Arshad Aiz. I have been living in West
Torren since 2000 and I am a taxpayer also over here. Right. And I joined the art council on its current location um 13 14 years back. For some reason
that place has very negative energy and you will see artist community from West Orange. You will hardly see any artist from West Orange as a part of the art council and
still I'm a member of West Orange Art Council but I'm for my art exhibition I have to go to Montlair and West uh South Orange and and Maplewood and I exhibit
my art over there and I also teach classes art classes in West Orange Public Library and I also exhibit my art work in West Orange Public Library. So if we move art council to the public
library, we will all benefit out of it especially the artist from the west orange because most of the artists from west orange they are not really a part of uh art council and uh you will
see that we uh over here we have artists from Livingston and Newwork and they are defending art council over here but you will not see many artists from West Orange. So being a resident of West Orange I would
like you to move to the new place where uh to the library where we will have more visible place visibility over there. So all the artists from this town west orange we can enjoy our activities
in library because uh we have more parking over there we have more visibility over there and and it's a great place and the building is brand new building uh so that's what I want to
say that uh and I do not know about the diversity in art council and I don't do not know the meaning of diversity but I was never welcome over there even though still I am a current member of West
Orange Art Council I hardly had only one exhibition over there for last 13 years but in in the in the library I had seven eight different exhibitions over there um and
I also show my artwork in Montlair twice a here and in Maplewood and South Orange. Uh I am well I also show my artwork over there but that place for
some reason has a negative energy and I do not have any written speech. So this is what I want to say. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Ziz. Miss Hopson and then you in likely sure. Oh that's Mr.
Hi everybody. Dogma Hobson, 17 Tmont Avenue. Um, I came here prepared to speak about the arts council in support of the arts council. But before I do that, I just wanted to commend my friend Jackie about that excellent speech that
she gave. And I just want to say I support what she said 100%. Um, now about the arts council. Um, I hear that they are about to be homeless and that's what I wanted to talk about. Um, we cannot possibly let that happen.
It would be such a loss to this town. Um, just last week we unveiled that beautiful, gorgeous mural there by PNC Bank between uh, Supreme Bakery and that other building. Why did we do that? We
did that because it's going to rejuvenate and transform that whole area. It's going to make it a whole into a whole different place much more enjoyable and everything. And that's what the arts do for a place. The arts
bring uh joy and life and beauty to an area. Um everywhere you can see in the in the cities where they bring art into the picture, it just makes it into a whole different place. And that's why we
need to support the arts council. Um if it's $40,000, let's do it. Let's do it. It's so so important that we support. Um if you've ever been there to the arts council,
when they have their um receptions, it's such a magical, warm, and welcoming place. It's just wonderful. If you never went, treat yourself and go to it. It's just wonderful. So, here I am. I'm a member and I'm a supporter and I I say
let's keep the arts council alive. Thank you. You're on, Mr. Vina. Is there anyone else who Well, we're sure we're gonna hold off on this so Mr. Vina can speak. Josephina Stone Drive. I didn't expect
to speak tonight. First of all, first off, uh not to apologize to the council, but uh I think rather than having been scolded by the council, I should have been thanked because we cannot hear and all I did was say louder and uh thank
thankfully the young lady who was speaking spoke louder. So that's my comment. But I have a couple of questions which I thought of as I was listening to some of the speakers tonight. Um and other people have been asking these questions and number one uh
with relative to the affordable housing plan. From what I understand the deadline for presenting it has passed from what I understand a plan is being prepared. The question is, if the
deadline's been passed, how long is going to take is it going to take for a an affordable housing plan to be approved and submitted to the affordable housing uh at the state? Uh until that
happens, are we liable for builder remedy suits? I heard two have already been filed and just I don't know I'm not going to ask you what you spoke about at your
executive session. That's up to you guys. But I think the town residents are entitled to some transparency as to the liability that the town may have not having an affordable housing plan.
Someone had asked the question. How come we don't have one? Over a year ago, we were told we needed one and somebody spoke earlier tonight about how we don't have a township planner. That's a disgrace.
When Susan Borg, who was our previous planner, resigned and unfortunately passed away, she was never replaced with a licensed professional planner. All that our town is doing is doing reactive
remedies rather than being proactive. And most of you I've known for years. I've lived in this town for over 50 years. I've appeared before various boards for years. Nobody knows what's going on. And out of
transparency, we ought to be told where we stand with the affordable housing, when it's going to be resolved, and how it's going to be resolved. And more more than anything, we need a legitimate licensed professional planner to sit at
the helm. We just can't be doing things as things pop up. Thank you very much. My name's uh Duke McCall, Lindsay Place, Lindsay Avenue, West Orange, a business owner. My wife and I have a uh photography studio and her business OLED
W photography. We've been here 5 years in West Orange. And when I came, I started to get involved with the city. I joined the downtown alliance with their wonderful director and since then we um when we have workshops we order from
merchants here. We just had a art showing order from a restaurant became involved with the police department. Did a free photo shoot for the senior um prom they had and uh about a year ago I joined the uh arts council and we went
to one or two of their events. So, I came here to learn more about what was going on because I heard bits and pieces. And now that I've heard, I just can say that having an independent place for an art council like this one is very
important. You're not worried about, you know, we can't we have to leave because the library is closing at this state. Being independent is very to me very important. And whether it's photography that we're involved, it's very helpful to uh young people. I've seen what they
happens there with the youth coming from the high school. Um, and I didn't realize this. My wife's a an engineer, but a lot of technical people become artists and photographers and you learn math. That's why I'm not a
photographer because you have to be good in math and and things like that. And I heard the comments about we did this, we did that and nobody came. We went through that when we started our our shop, our workshops and then we
talked to other people and we did things a little different. In the last two years, we've been completely full. So, you know, maybe it's bringing in some new to talk about with the people who are there to try to get more people in. Maybe it's seeing some of your business
partners, the larger ones, maybe can contribute 3,000 here, 4,000 there. and maybe you'll get half of that um 35 $40,000 funded and and everything
we did what I see I got everything from the art council off of Facebook and we did a lot of our stuff on Facebook and when I had to I had to get out of there we had to get out and go to other places like you saw the other arts people come to you tonight and bring their people
in. So I think it could be done. I think it's worth it. It's not just about if there was a if you had to do the budget 40,000 could be found somewhere. I know that. But in this case, I think it's well worth it to keep it even if
it's not where it is, but at an independent site. Thank you. Susan Lanchek, 234 Eagle Rock Avenue. I see that there are ordinances on the agenda whose purpose is to help alleviate the stressful parking
situation in some areas of the township. Thank you for drawing up and considering these ordinances. They should provide some welcome relief to many residents who struggle with finding a place to park their cars. Is this the first step in your efforts
to address parking challenges? Will you be drawing up ordinances for other stressed areas? For example, the streets off the northern end of Main Street, including the Park Drive loop, Ashwood Terrace, Park Terrace, McKinley,
Ridge, and some others off Harrison like Cherry, Chestnut, Elm, Maple, etc. Please, we need parking permits 247 in that area, not just overnight.
Homeowners can come home in midafternoon and not be able to find a parking space. So, it is critical that permits be 247. Again, thank you for drawing up these ordinances to be discussed this evening.
Please don't stop with these. Recognize that this is a serious stressor for people which can no longer be ignored. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else who wants to speak at public comment? I see a a hand way in
the back. So, you're next after everybody. And then there's a hand here. Somebody's uh right there with the glasses. Yes, you're next. After again, please. That's you. Hold your hand up. That's you. Okay. Please go ahead. Good evening, everyone. Um I'm I'm so
excited to listen to my name tonight. Excuse Sorry. I'm so sorry. Karen MK Adams, Park Drive South. I I was so excited by the comments that I heard tonight, by the passion, by the by the commitment to
this town despite the frustrations that we experience. Particularly, Jackie, that was that was so beautifully stated, the advocates that are here all the time. I I just I really respect and and appreciate you very much.
Like my friend Sue Lenick, I'm encouraged by the agenda items eight and nine tonight, specifically ordinances 2932 and 2933. These parking changes seem to be in response to the dynamic traffic
engineering study completed earlier this year and summarized at the council meeting in April. Are these ordinances the beginning of more changes? Can I hope for a full roll out of improved parking strategies,
especially down the hill and along the main street corridor? As I shared with you at the town council meeting on June 24th, unless you've personally lived it, you have no idea how stressful parking issues become and how they negatively
impact someone's quality of life. I do encourage the council to continue passing ordinances like the two tonight. The park drive loop is and has been in dire need of an aroundthe-clock permit system.
Limited permit hours are insufficient in our case. Parking is hard and usually unavailable by 3:30 to 4:30 in the afternoon every day. Today at 4:15 this afternoon, there was one parking space
on Park Drive South. It is highly unlikely, pretty much impossible that I will find a parking space when I get home from tonight's meeting. It is extremely stressful to me, to my young neighbors who just had a baby, to people
who don't have driveways, for everybody in this area. So, are you going to schedule some town hall type meetings so residents can offer their input and maybe you can learn more
about tag team parking, abandoned vehicles, non-residents who use our streets to park while they commute, employees of local businesses that use our streets while they work, and so on. And lastly, I'd like to thank the
council for your persistent work on the budget. I look forward to your presentation of the budget this evening. Thank you for your attention. I appreciate it. I see a hand up in the back to my right. Just went down. Yes. Thank you for
reading my mind. You will be second in line. Is there anyone else who wants to speak? You're first in line. Ma'am, you're first in line after him. Okay, you're next. And then the person behind you is going to be next. Okay, we
clear. Please go ahead. Should I go? I'm sorry. She's Are we ready? Yes, please. Please, Billford, West Orange. That's all right. West Orange resident. Um, I came to speak in support
of the arts council. Uh, before I get to that, I just wanted to uh remind us um a comment was made earlier about uh the lawsuit between the mayor and the town council where the mayor sued the town council to compel the council. It's what she asked the the judge to do. compel
the council to award a contract to a law firm. Uh, in our form of government, that is not legal. The mayor does not get to decide which law firms get contracts. The council does. And so, I would encourage you,
even though it's a waste of money, I certainly do agree. It should have never been brought. Uh, but I encourage you to stay in that lawsuit because the mayor is not allowed to usurp the authority of the town council. Um,
now I came here to uh show some support for the arts council. I find it interesting that um uh this many people have to come out to advocate to keep the arts in West Orange. with so many
renowned artists that live here. Um, so many folks that are involved in the arts, uh, it's curious to me that we can't find a way to cut something else that does not impact the community this
way. The outpouring of support tonight shows that the West Orange Out Arts Council is wanted and needed. Um, and I would suggest that there are other places to find cuts, um, especially since it's only 40,000.
But even if you couldn't, uh, while you find a longerterm solution, uh, to funding the arts council, which I think is underfunded today, uh, let me be clear. I said underfunded today. Um while you find a
longerterm solution to uh funding the arts council um you could also apply for CDBG money and it's only $40,000. It would not affect our CDBG application much if at all. Uh so there are ways to
support the arts um while we work out whatever the long-term solution is and I encourage this council to to do that. Um lastly, you know, uh a couple of the residents just pointed out the issues we're facing with parking. Um that is a
townwide issue, uh but particularly along our main street corridor, valley corridor. Um I would encourage the council to take a holistic approach, the clearly defined strategy, uh not just, you know, the whack-a-ole approach that we've taken before. We've seen the same
type of approach lead to other problems in other areas. Many of them have been um related to us by count by residents tonight. Um but take a holistic approach which I thought was uh being done when you had the parking study, I'm sorry,
the traffic study done earlier this year. Uh take a holistic approach with a clearly defined strategy to address parking townwide. Um years ago, property was purchased to provide uh relief for parking in various streets and various
neighborhoods. Um and while that was not necessarily a townwide approach, it certainly did address uh the issue in a meaningful way at that time. Um, I would encourage us to go back to a point where we look at the entire problem, take our time figuring out a solution to that
problem, communicate with residents, allow for some input, and then execute on that solution. Uh, that's a way to keep people from coming week after week complaining about the same things over and over again. Thank you. Thank you.
Uh, I'm Judiana Fronty. Um, I'm not a West Orange residence, uh, but I am an artist member of the Arts Council. U, most people think of a gallery as a retail space, um, with expensive
artworks and snoody artists. Um, West Orange Out Center breaks all of the gallery stigma. People who would probably never enter uh see the sign outside and come in. Maybe they're there for the free food and drink, but once they're in, it doesn't take long for
them to feel welcome and very much included. Gallery openings are joyous events. Artists are always there. We love to talk about our work not technique or medium but as a reflection
of um of our history, culture, uh our joy, our sadness and share sharing personal experiences with strangers creates an empathetic bond that goes beyond race, gender, and any differences.
Art um is a universal has a universal message that draws people in um to feel a connection not only the art to not only the artist but to the community and the world. Last spring um the art center was part of the Garden State Arts
Festival. The theme was pain. Artists depicted physical, mental, and emotional distress. We we bared our souls, shared our stories, and many tears were shed that night. Um, children wander around
the gallery looking at art that seems no different from the mass- prodduced uh pictures from HomeGoods or IKEA. When they get in close, they see the brush strokes, the paint, the texture, and realize that this is just another level of uh painting what they've done in art
classes in school, if there are any art classes in school. Uh my work is felt and fabric collage, a mixture of snips of felt pieces uh pieced together to create a work of art. Kids love the bright colors and texture. I love to
point out that each piece is just a cut shape. A circle, a square, a rectangle. Creating a creating arts becomes something doable by anyone and has prompted trips to Michaels to buy felt, fabric, and scissors. Sharing my passion
and lighting their creative fires is priceless. Uh West Orange Art Center offers uh free uh workshops led by the artists for children during the shows. Um food and drink at o openings is generous and is
donated by local businesses, local restaurants which we also bring business to or it's prepared by members. The uh gallery space is a major asset to the community. It fosters goodwill, outreach, education,
um, and culture in a sorry um, the term quality of life has been used a lot tonight. Uh, parks and museums and libraries and outdoor events, concerts
um, are wonderful, but nothing compares to the sharing of ideas, culture, and heritage. um at this personal one-on-one level that that can't happen in a large public event. We need to continue our
legacy in our current space um so we can continue to share, communicate, and inspire. Thank you. The person who is next in line, I saw her walk out five minutes ago. So, is there anyone else who'd like to speak
tonight? I can see somebody here. You can be next. and then near the wall. Yes, you are the next person, please. Yes, you're raising your hand in a peace sign. I agree with you. You're next. Is there anyone else who wants to speak? And then, uh, Miss Bennett, you'll be
uh, next in line. Please go ahead. Thank you. Uh, Tammy Williams, Buckingham Road. Um, I'd just like to say thank you to everyone who came out this evening to advocate for the Art Center Gallery location uh to remain at 551 Valley Road. Um, as a member of the
board and an avid supporter of the arts, um, we wanted to make sure that everyone understood that the Art Center Gallery is a pillar to the community and should be uh, and remain in that location. And if there is an opportunity for the art
center gallery to move, it should be an independent location uh where we can have our own identity. I used to think it was just me trying to keep a child in college, supporting my st son, still living at home, juggling real bills on a
real income. But it's all of us. From Ridge to Pleasantale, from the Valley to Gregory, we're all feeling the weight. West Orange is in a difficult place. We are part of Essex County, one of the most expensive counties in New Jersey.
And while we love our treeline streets and community charm, our property taxes are becoming unbearable. Between the recent townwide re-evaluation, a proposed f 6% increase in the 2025
municipal budget, and rising schoolboard costs, which account for approximately 63% of our tax bills, we are watching working families buckle under the pressure. The entry level cost of a new luxury apartment is around $2,500 a
month in West Orange. That's not realistic for a single person earning $65,000 a year, especially if they carry student debt or care for aging parents. Affordability shouldn't be a luxury. It
should be the baseline for any community that claims to serve its people. Behind the deis, it's easy to think policy alone will fix things. But what residents need most right now is representation.
Leadership that is transparent, accessible, and focused on solutions. We are in a metamorphosis in West Orange. The faces of leadership, those who have guided the town for decades, are beginning to retire and move on. And
with that we face an urgent decision. Do we retreat into the past or build a better future? I believe we must choose collaborative forwardthinking leadership. Leaders who not only understand municipal finance
and planning, but who also know how to bring people together. West Orange doesn't need more division. We need unity. The Arts Council Center Gallery provides just that. We need
leadership that brings professionals and residents together, that finds creative ways to balance budgets and preserve services. That's how we honor our traditions while forging a new direction.
Let's advocate for those places and spaces that provide unity to our community. Let's keep the art center gallery at 551 Valley Road until it has another suitable independent location
that can bring our community together. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to speak? Please raise your hand. Okay, you're next. When I say next and after everybody else finishes, I think there might be
uh after Miss Bennett. Greetings, Moren Robinson, Crest Ridge Apartments, West Orange, New Jersey. I'd like to state that a chain is only
as strong as its weakest link. And any end uh adventure that you endeavor, you will always have a Jonas on board. With that in mind, I'd like to inform the council that I've taken legal action
against Crest Ridge Apartments and I will continue to do so until change is realized. Therefore, for the record, I'd just like to state that my floors were never done
and I still have unwanted visitors appearing in my apartment known as carpenter ants. I complained in March and I just received an appointment for the their
exterminator for August the 7th, 2025. That's how negligent the company is. Thank you. Uh, Miss Sylvestri. Miss Sylvester, the
next person is to speak is Miss Bennett. If you could just sit down and let her finish and then come. Miss Bennett, you Okay, fine. Thank you. Thank you for that gracious turn. Claire Sylvestri, 20 Grand View Avenue.
We all know that there's going to be a special election in November to fill the vacant council seat, but I I think we don't have much more information than that. So, I just wondered if perhaps this evening the town clerk could give us a little bit more details about what
the criteria is for getting on the ballot, what the deadline is, um when we'll know when the uh who the candidates are that will be on the ballot, is there any limit on the number of candidates that can make uh the
ballot in November? And um that's it. Thank you. Thank you. Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. So, um I just I didn't I I don't have prepared um comments. Um but I was just
struck uh by the irony um in the room and I think we should be talking about it. Um and and I also think we should be talking about mismanagement. I think it's mismanagement that has led us to the place that we are in almost every um
topic that's been raised during public comment. There would be no talk about builder's remedies if we had properly managed our responsibilities. And to blame this council when it was an 11th hour last minute
proposal that should never have waited that long is a show of mismanagement. Now I don't know if that mismanagement lands squarely on the mayor's shoulders or if it belongs on the leadership um in her administration, but I can say
unequivocally that it is the business administrator's role and responsibility to make sure that this town is run efficiently and effectively. And the business administrator during the period of time when um all of that work should
have been accomplished is also um or at that time it was also the chief of police. Um and I don't know if it's possible to be able to perform two functions like a police chief and a business administrator
um efficiently and effectively by one person. uh that individual and that individual's salary could easily absorb the costs
associated with the arts council. And so I really find it unconscionable that we would consider once again not offering a position out to a fair and competitive process to make sure that we
would have the very best for West Orange and we would consider um negotiating. I I I want to I want to just um I I just want to say um that there are brave people who work in this
building. Brave people who take it upon themselves to get information to people who are willing to speak it into microphones at public comment. Nobody in this room shared with me that we have a crazy
and irresponsible settlement agreement pending. And I know you can't speak about it and I'm not going to get into it, but the idea that you were removing or the council before you was removing the township attorney for a cause and was stopped by the mayor
and that somehow we've embroiled an individual who I'm going to read into the record something that I got uh via Oprah who in a business in town confronted while
under the influence of alcohol a resident in town and threatened him. That individual and you all received this email that I received via Oprah. Every single one of you is copied on this email including
the business administrator. And I want to ask the mayor also on this on this email, every council person on this email, and the business administrator on this email, did you investigate the behavior that's described
within? You have somebody sitting on the deis with you under the title on the deis of assistant business administrator who while in that role is accused of threatening a resident in in a in an
establishment prima vera restaurant in front of other residents and in front in front of employees. And I have in this email it says that there were surveillance
surveillance videos of this. So if that's the case, was that investigated? Because we don't need that sort of management and we don't need to be spending over $300,000. the highest paid business administrator in this county. I believe we don't need
to be spending more than $300,000 for mismanagement. And we don't need to repeat the same mistakes that we make over and over again. The position should be posted and the individuals who apply for the position
should be qualified and we should start managing ourselves to a successful place. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak? Please raise your hand. One last chance. Okay, I will close
public comment. 10:13 and open it up to a response from uh council members. I think there were some questions that perhaps Mr. Smaldo could could answer. Uh who would like to go first?
Mr. Smaldo, perhaps if it's not putting you on the on the uh uh on the spot, uh there were some questions about uh parking and whether some of the ordinances that are on uh the agenda
reflect a a start of uh a a greater initiative uh to I think implement uh the dynamic traffic study that we were presented with uh earlier this year. But if to to the extent that you can discuss. Sure. Thank you.
So the um the traffic study wasn't a direct impact into what's on for tonight the resolution although it may be part of the study though dynamic solution. Um at our last council meeting we did discuss the fact that um we would like to have a public meeting for the
residents to come in and speak about um the the parking itself the parking study. So I reached out to Mr. McCormack who who um presented and he'd be willing to come in to set up a meeting in the future. Um we decided it might be best to do it possibly in at least September
or a little bit later because so we could have more people show up uh do the vacations and things of that nature. But as you you may recall, council president, I it was asked of me the last time and we not going to move forward with any plan right now until we figure
out what kind of capital um funding will be allocated. So um so we're willing to do what we have to do to get this this plan in place. It's it's what the u input we would get from our public and what other kind of appetite we have to
spend on on you know enhancing the um enhancing the program. But in the interim you know if director Kabalo receives a request for something to improve a street somewhere then you know it'll be taken into account and we may be presenting more um ordinances on
first readings for consideration. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Uh any questions of Mr. Seraldo on this issue or do we want to move back to response by council members which is traditionally what we do? I could start. Councilwoman Castelino, please start us
off. Okay. Thank you. Um there was a request earlier by one of the speakers about the air conditioning and the acoustics in the chamber and I you know now speaking with the air conditioning on I don't
know where we're at with capital what we could do but it it really is problematic in the summertime. So hope everybody could hear me there and I hear an echo on my are you I think got it on the phone. I think somebody's got it on their phone.
Probably Council Miss Parpa may have to mute yourself. Oh, sure. Okay. I'll do that now. You're hearing me speak on your Zoom. Oh, okay. Well, now, so I'll talk fast because the air conditioner's off. Any case, thank you everyone for coming
down. I know a lot of you, it's been a long night and most of you have left. Um, but I really do appreciate all the comments in this evening and I do understand and I really empathize with your frustration especially since so many of us looked at our third quarter
tax estimated tax bill and uh, you know, it it it was a you know it's shocking once again. So, how do we do better? Um, we need to start with better communication. So going back to January
of this year, this council and the chambers had a conversation in regards to the arts council very early on the year. I'd say January, no later than February. And the conversation occurred when it was brought to the council's
attention of the increase because I believe there was a resolution on for increase in rent a significant amount uh for the location on Valley Road. And that sparked a discussion and with that
discussion came questions and rightfully so from the council in regards to total cost. So over the years the total cost has increased significantly in their rent in their um utilities and uh and
their security system. So, um, with that there, uh, was a request to have them relocated and at that time um, we decided, you know, right right out of the gate, I I thought I didn't
want to move them right away. So, my decision at that time was not not to move, but to inform them to have a discussion. Um, for those of you who don't know me, many years ago, I sat on our board of education for 10 years. I'm also proud of the West Orange schools,
the arts program very instrumental in my growth. uh my my children's growth uh our students in the community uh when they first started talking about art on the cart uh you know cringed never
wanted to take an art room away uh classroom away because you know just those little faces putting on their smoks and going to that art room to to make a pottery or a picture to bring home uh priceless and very extremely educational
and um you know we continued that trend. And I had Jerry Turnoff as a mentor as when I when he was our superintendent. And you just saw so much talent crank out of West Orange High School as the students got older. And uh that
transformed to the arts council. Um I've been a frequent visitor through the years, not so much this past year. Um, but always look forward to their holiday open house with shop by Christmas gifts for the family and just it's just a
great community feel when you're there. So heartbreaking to hear this year and I'm sure co had something to do with it just like everything else that went downhill in this town and around around the world. Um, very heartbreaking to hear that, you know, the lack of
volunteers. Leanna put herself out there, which was not easy to do. I have to thank her for being brave, very brave and coming up here knowing how much support there is for the arts council, but at the end of the day, as she stated, you know, she's the only, you know, she she's left there. Uh,
Patricia, she works tirelessly as so many others, but again, they're left holding the bag trying to keep the store open, cleaning the windows, cleaning the facility. It's great when people are there, but for the the the many days that people aren't is not going to
sustain the site or the programming. So, this was great that everybody who was here earlier tonight came out and for those of you still here as well, but they need that kind of support all year long. And from, you know, this
conversation started in February and talking to a few of them that, you know, nothing has been done. a plan has like this has not been a surprise that came, you know, that the council was concerned about the budget and and about the the
cost and what to do. We want to see them be successful. I myself being on the downtown alliance and even though they're not officially in the downtown, we partner with them. They're great for the neighborhood and not seeing the neighborhood utilize them and they're not being open, you know, every day,
it's just heartbreaking. So, I would love to see them continue to be open, but they have to be able to sustain more than what they're sustaining. And that hasn't been happening, and I'm not sure if that's going to change. Um, we have a budget hearing on Thursday. I assume
we'll have a conversation about it on Thursday. And, um, but I hope all the support that was in this room tonight could go back and call them up. And we do need to assign a leaison. uh councilwoman, our former council colleague uh stepped down a month ago.
Um for those who comment, uh uh Jacqueline tonight, I'm sorry disappointing you and not reappointing somebody, but we just, you know, hadn't come to a consensus on that and we need to move forward and and build that, you know, that the election's like right
there, right around the corner. Um so, um that seat will be filled and I look forward to having that fifth person. But the budget advisory committee, they've been great. They've been helping us with our uh budgeting and they gave us an awesome report uh uh last night I read
today and um you know so we're going to continue to work together and do the tough work as dire as everything seems and how frustrating it all is because trust me I've been very very frustrated um myself as well as the public and uh
been caught in the middle of a lot between the administration and the council and uh did not want the lawsuit to happen. Actually voted against it. I'm a firm believer of a negotiating everybody could sit in the room and unfortunately over two years ago that
did not happen and we're still not there yet. And I'm not a fingerpointer. I'm part of this system. So, you know, we got to keep working to get that done and not disappoint you folks. You deserve much better than what we've been uh handing out. I will say though, I am
going to defend myself in regards to a township planner. I've been advocating for that for quite some time now and uh made it very known and vocal uh when I didn't vote to move forward um with uh hiring the consult renewing the
consultants contract because we needed the full-time planner and we needed that full-time planner uh you know a a while ago and uh now we're paying the price for it and that's all I'm going to say about the cases and whatnot. Um, tonight
we have a vote on outside cafe. I will um introduce it, support it on introduction. Uh, it it's a start and where we need to go. I know my downtown board has been frustrated with it and so I appreciate the comments that they sent in. I'm not sure what we'll uh look to
to amend, but at the end of the day, um, you know, we have to, you know, we we have to get some things. And again, if we had a planner, this would be helpful in uh working with us to plan out uh Main Street as well as the rest of the
town and whatnot. Um I appreciate um the residents, all the emails from Crystal Lake. I look forward to seeing and going over a plan with uh Mr. Kio. And so I hope
administration comes to us with the the details. Um, I did get I did request a copy uh of a plan to to review to see what the residents were given, but you know, it was a small sketch. I need something
larger. So, um, you know, we look forward to the improvements up there. We never want anything to infringe on a residents directly. So, um, I'm sure Mr. Kio will look at his plan and and you
know see what improvements could be made in that nature. Um so you know we we had a long evening a lot of it was with the arts council
and township's frustration. I will say on dynam dynamic parking we all worked together to make that a very proactive plan. Uh, I see more ordinances come forward. Our engineer has been working tirelessly on
this and um I know I I too don't live far from you, Miss Adams. So I I Oh, I'm sorry that this air conditioning um I look forward to what our engineer will be rolling out with the ordinances. I
live in the downtown uh as not far from you and I know the street my uh husband's aunt lived on it for many years and it's it's tough. It's really really tough and that's why I wasn't supportive of that uh that 410 project because I knew the impact it would do
there. Um but we're constantly on it with the also with the automotives. Um I know they've been problematic uh in the neighborhood with um the parking on side streets and that needs to you know stop but Miss Bril is in
these meetings as well as myself with them. So a lot of the uh challenges in the neighborhoods we are given that direct information to um to the consultant to work into these plans. So, as these ordinates come out and with all
these parking issues, so I know we haven't have community meetings, but all the community input is getting directed to them and and they're working on it. We just need it's it's a lot of work to get done across the board and we have not done our capital uh budget yet and
we're we are going to need some assistance in capital this year. So, um we need to look um move forward with that as well. But again, we'll be rolling out and hopefully we could help your situation cuz I know how how
impactful that is in your neighborhood directly. Um, that's it. Just everyone, thank you for coming out. I know you're frustrated and you know my pledge is to continue, you know, working tirelessly to with all
these challenges because we have a lot on our plate and uh we all need to work together to make sure that we get everything done for our community. You deserve better. Thank you, Councilman. Thank you, Councilwoman. Uh Council President, if I could just jump in really quickly and just remind the
council, there's a bunch of comments and questions about um some of the litigations and some personnel items and the executive session. And I just want to remind the council not to speak about any of that publicly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just to just to clarify, there were some questions having to do with process. Yes.
And are you saying we should not even discuss the process? Well, if if you want to talk about um general, you know, process, but be careful about just talking about specifics to what's happening and what was discussed in the executive session. Yeah, I was trying to Did I do Okay. I
was trying to No, I you were fine. I just want to make sure that remind everyone if if any of us get off off the uh narrow path. Yeah, there's a police officer over there who can stop us or you can we generally pay
attention to legal advice. So, no, no problem. But thank you for the reminder. Uh Councilwoman Scarpa, would you like to respond now? I don't I don't want to ignore you. I haven't seen a sign from Mr. Fagan. So, would you like to speak now?
I I can respond now. Sure. Great. Thank you. Okay. Um, I just want to say thank you to uh Bev and Sally. Um, my fondest childhood memories are of jumping and playing in leaves. And today, I still
enjoy using a rake to rake my own leaves. So, um I'm looking forward to looking at how we could save a half a million dollars and uh thank you for your presentation. It was really enlightening. Um Liliana uh and you know
to all those who came but Liliana I want to thank you for your beautiful vision of what our arts council can be. Um, we you don't really need a marketing degree to understand that the library
might be a better facility where artists can get more exposure. um where residents uh we could share it with residents of all ages, kids would have more accessibility and uh there would be really ample parking as well.
And I I really can share your vision of that being a really wonderful public space which I'm sure we can work out any of the kinks or concerns that you have to make it something that more people in the community can enjoy and participate
in. Um, this is a difficult one. I've had so many residents calling me, not just the seniors, about their inability to afford West Orange. I have a dear friend a few
blocks away who's moving to Delaware. She's been a longtime resident and she just can't afford the taxes in our township anymore. Um, it's just a really really challenging challenging
problem we have right now and we have to tackle it head on and look for economies of scale. And one of the residents even called me and said, "I've been watching the budget meeting and I really want to thank you for doing what you're doing to
get our budget to zero. We cannot afford another scent on the municipal side and we need to lead the way for the schools so that they realize how important it is to get their house in order as well. I
think the biggest responsibility we have to the to our residents to the taxpayers is to manage every dollar that they give us efficiently and effectively. Um, you know, I've learned lately that
I'm the council person for the people who vote for me, the people who don't vote for me, and the people who don't vote at all. We have to all look beyond our own self-interest
and we have to do what's best for all of the residents in our in our community. And you know, we have to make some of these tough choices and provide all of the services that we want efficiently. The arts are so important to me. I my
son took his first steps in the Metropolitan Museum of Art and the Arts Council does provide such a wonderful sense of community for us and I believe that if they are in a location where
more people have access, we will see really wonderful things go, you know, coming out of out of there and they'll have more more help. I know the seniors would probably love to help, but it's very difficult for seniors to get down to that location. It's difficult to park
and in that uh library setting. I would love to work with our seniors to get volunteers. I had 25 volunteers at my house a couple years ago, seniors who want to get more involved in our community, and I would love to work with the arts council to do that.
Uh let's see. Seth, thank you so much. Um, we do need a town planner. Um, we we've been advocating for one. I've been advocating for one for a decade
before I actually sat on this council. And I have to agree with you. We are building a house, our house, without an architect. I think you've heard all of my colleagues say this. We all feel this
way and we really need to get a professional here who will do the kind of strategic planning to make our town all that she can be for all of our residents. Joina,
thank you coming again. I really appreciate all of your advocacy. You're right. It is a disgrace that we have no planner. and to Joe Panulo of We Care. Um, I want to answer your questions. You know, Nish Wayne Group was hired over a
year ago for $150,000 for planning services and another $150,000 for economic development services. So the mayor and the planning department
and our administration had plenty of time to give them that challenge of developing this plan and it was this lack of strate strategic planning and development of our town that is unconscionable and it's put us
where we are today. So, I hope we can use our resources more effectively as we move forward and get a planner in here ASAP. It's been a decade of advocacy for that. Uh, the parking, Susan Lanchek and uh,
May MK Adams and everyone who came out on the parking. I had a conversation with Joy Bernett a couple of nights ago. You may know her. She is a real advocate for the permit parking for the she's been coming to the council for almost a
year c tirelessly talking about the difficulty that people have in her neighborhood and she told me she has people who live three blocks away who are parking on her street in front of her house. She said there are people who
have driveways who don't park in their driveways and are parking on the street. So, I would like our administration to get together with us and if need be the entire township and develop a a
develop a plan to get residents permit parking. It's done all over. We've been talking about it for a year. I think it was Claire Sylvester brought up that they do it in Boston and we need to give our residents this relief and develop a plan to get permit parking for our
residents, particularly those who don't have a driveway. Uh, and I think uh, oh, one more thing. Um, Bruce on Crystal Lake, thank you for coming out. I share your concerns. I was very concerned when we, um, did look at
that that grant. Um, I was very disappointed at the last election when we had a candidate for this council seat who had a flaw. I had no idea what Crystal the administration was looking at Crystal Lake for or to do. And the
person had a flyer for a complete menagerie of that beautiful natural space. It was a beach and a bathrooms. I I was horrified. I was What is this? The council had no idea that anybody was
envisioning this kind of menagerie. That's a beautiful natural space that really needs to be um looked at in terms of the storm water needs and there are many and protecting that space and the beauty for what it is. So um I plan on
following up with that and uh hope to reach out to you at some point soon. And on that note, I think that's it. Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilman Ruden. Sure. We saved the best to last. No, you're the last. Oh, well that's not true.
Okay. Um I'm just going to break it down into categories because there were so many speakers tonight. So first category lawsuit for residents like Jackie, Joina, Bill,
and Susan um who have raised concerns about the escalating legal costs and you know why we're in this situation. your concerns are valid and they're central to understanding to how we got here. I appreciate that former Councilman Bill
Rutherford um gave us a critical reminder. We are in this battle because the mayor chose litigation over collaboration. She sued the very people who were trying to ensure transparency, accountability, and fiscal
responsibility. And the ball is in her court to end this. As for affordable housing, West Orange has also failed in one of its most basic responsibilities, submitting a statemandated plan for affordable
housing. This is not just a bureaucratic oversight. It is a failure of leadership and a betrayal to our community. This entire council spoke with one voice last week when we responded to the mayor's attempt to throw us under the bus for
her failure. Mayor McCartney had ample time and opportunity to act. Instead, she chose to delay inaction and political deflection by not submitting a plan. It is true the administration has put our township at
legal and financial risk while signal signaling to people who are looking for affordable housing that they are not a priority. One has to wonder who is benefiting from this delay. That's how we got here. Now, we are at that line.
And I urge the public, as I did earlier this evening, to attend the planning board meeting where this affordable housing plan will be presented and to speak out, organize if you need to, and if you need
to be prepared to file objections. as for filling the seat of my former colleague um as Gabbor Michael um I guess you can say it was not the will of this council but um but it was not my
will not to not to fill the seat. Um um I my council colleagues did not feel it was um they felt it was beyond their mandate to fill it. Um I objected but here we are. We're in this we're in this
space. Um Dr. Lefken who spoke about um Crystal Lake. Um I want to thank you for helping to organize your community um and speaking out against three oversized floating lakes. That really just seems
like a tremendous overbuild um with kayaking and canoeing and and fishing and all this kind of stuff which sounds great but is really not necessary in that area. Um, it appears that it is poorly thought out and really lacks community input from the people who are
most critical. People like like Dr. Lefkan who lives 40 feet away from where one of these um docks are proposed. Um I'm not sure why you found out at the 11th hour in that way. I wish that that there had been more of a collaborative
plan. Um the plan for the lake, not for the development of the Ospac stage, feels really like an afterthought and not well integrated. And um you know, we we need to sometimes you get money and this money came through through um
Senator McKeen's um office. It's a million dollars. Sometimes free money is not always free if it ends up destroying the things that we as a community really hope to to preserve. So, I I encourage community support. Let's not make this a
hasty, ill-conceived plan. Yes, the time is clicking as it always is in this township with doing last minute t uh last minute planning, but please, the community that lives by by um OPAC, please get together. And I'm I'm
grateful for those who have spoken out to the D um to to help lead on this um environmental issue. Uh tonight there were a lot of speakers about the arts council. I think it's very clear how
special this group is. It is creative and it's inclusive and nobody here is saying that the arts is not important. It is essential to our community. It is essential to our democracy. Um but as the first speaker spoke said um it's
time to change the model um and to create another space that may bring more people together and make the center more accessible with more hours and more opportunities for engagement. The current site simply does not attract
traffic. there has been a substantial effort to outreach to the community and it does not get the traction that it really deserves. Um the cost for opening it up just 4 hours a uh a month um is
about $563 per hour if you do the the math and it's simply not sustainable. by moving the center to a location where art can be more visible and in the center of town, maybe perhaps in the in
the um library adjacent, which we have right here, which was promised to us as a community space. Um we would be helping the arts and saving money. Um these are not mutually exclusive goals. I would also like to remind this
community that if it were not for the efforts of the former township planner, Susenborg, we would never have an arts council and we would not have had a a facility. She made it happen. That is even more of a reason why we need a town
planner to conceive these type of wonderful projects and to help us with the affordable housing plan with with development in Ospac and and all over town that seems very much hodgepodge
without a plan. This council uniformly has urged the mayor to hire a a planner. That is what we want and that is not up to us to to do the hiring that
comes from the administration. So again we are not abandoning the arts. The arts are a fabulous addition to our community but we would like to see that it is not on the periphery of the community but more in the center of the
community. And I would like to see that this that the arts community that came out tonight work collaboratively with us with the with the administration in particular to find a space that really works. Um I want to thank Sally and Bev for for the leave the leaves um
presentation. It was it was um really um very nice to see such a a simple and sustainable and um idea that could save our township so much money. I really hope that we as a community can move in
that direction. I encourage everybody mulch your leaves this season. Don't bring them to the curb. Let's save money. Let's do things smarter. Um to Susan and MK MK who um spoke about parking issues, I hear you. We are going
to be um pulling those um uh ordinances tonight and try to address the very real needs that you broke uh brought up. Um having parking start at 8:00 at night does not address the situation that you're in when you come home. And we
hear you on that and we as a council would like to work with you to make that to make that happen and also to prioritize that the people who do not have parking lots get um get first priority on the street. Um Michaela um
as for an investigation into the behavior that you described um that is not something that we as a council can do. Um, that is something that would come from the administration and um, as far as I know, the
administration has not looked into that. Um, and and finally tonight, Mrs. Robinson, I'm so sorry that your recourse has been legal. Um, I did reach out several times to um to our administration to try and get you the help that you needed, and I'm so sorry
that that hasn't hasn't worked in your favor. And I hope that I hope that you see that that your legal method seeks some um relief for you. So um that's it in some I just urge this community as you did tonight, stay active, stay
involved, come to the planning board meeting, speak out. We need your voices. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. Now might be a good time for Madame Clerk to uh talk a little bit more. I'm I'm going to follow up. You keep saying best to save best to
last. I don't think you're right, but that's what we're going to do. Okay. Um Okay. So, the basic criteria to uh run in the election is you have to be a US citizen 18 years old by election day. You must have resided in the state
and the county at least 30 days before the election. You cannot be currently serving a sentence, probation, or parole because of a felony conviction. Um, 75 verified petitions are required.
Uh, we do a background check on each person that is applying to run. Um, the deadline to return the petitions is August 21st by 400 p.m. in the clerk's office. Uh the names of the candidates
will be announced once they are certified and there is no limit on how many can submit petitions to run and currently we have 10 people who have picked up but not everyone returns the petitions and that's why I don't you
know announce the names until they're actually certified. I think I answered everything. Did I? Are there any deadlines for when this all has to take place? Like the deadline to return the petitions is August 21st. So they can contact the
clerk's office any time prior to that. And obviously they need time to get signatures and things like that. It's it's 75 signatures, right? 75. Yes. And then is there any limit to how many people could be on the ballot? No. But you've had a lot of requests for
10. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we'll see. Everybody wants this job. So, thank you. Thank you, Miss Carnival. Uh uh I I want to say start off by saying thanks to everyone who spoke and and your your valuable insight and input
is much appreciated uh and is is vital to how we do our job. But before I go any further, I just want to start with the reality that council members live with. We are the face to many residents with our meetings, but we are not omnipotent as much as we would like to
be when you ask us to improve your lives. We have to live with the laws, the regulations, and the ordinances that we operate under. We take an oath to do that. And we can legally do certain things, but we can't do other things because of the law. Under our form of government, we have a separation of
powers. The mayor runs the municipal operations and is given the power to negotiate contracts and appointments and then present them to the council for review and vote. That's a power that the council has. The mayor drafts the budget and the council reviews, amends, and adopts the budget. The separations of
powers sometimes result in conflict and stasis. Nothing gets done, which in some cases is what you're seeing. Council members have advocated, for example, for a full-time planner with economic development experience for years and
years, but the last two mayors have not agreed. And so, we do not have this planner. As much as we believe that it's crucial to our future, this is not an excuse. It's just reality. But no matter what the law, council members remain
your advocates, and we will continue to take your requests forward uh as much as we can. We have uh uh my family has been uh benefiting from the West Orange Arts Council for years and years. and our house. I won't say it's full of art that
we purchased through the to the council, but there are uh several pieces that we proudly put in our in our home and and uh and we want we and I want the arts council to be as strong and as vibrant
in our community as possible. But we do have to deal with this financial issue no matter how much we want to focus on the art. And I just want to there was a speaker today who came from outside the town who came from an organization that
funds uh the West Orange Arts Council and I got an email from or the council got an email from uh him uh earlier today and I just sent an email back to him and I just want to try to put this in perspective in context. Here's here's what I wrote back. Thanks for your
gracious note which recognizes the role of the West Orange Council in the township and regionally. As you may know, council is deliberating on a number of difficult issues related to its role developing and approving the annual municipal budget. We're trying to balance the needs of residents, many of
whom are under financial pressure with those of the municipality and residents as a community. I welcome reasonable and informed discussion and civil debate to try to reach a solution that takes this dynamic into account. I don't know if anyone connected with the arts center or
this uh I'm sorry, arts council. I'm I'm sorry. I'm focused on the building instead of the the entity or this campaign to contact council has the accounting of the estimated cost of the location or has requested it. But this the information I'm about to give is
from our CFO. This seems like a good starting place to see if we can figure out a solution that works for all parties. The township pays nearly $33,100 annually for that location, including an annual budget allocation of 200 $2,500.
So, I've heard the $40,000 number. Uh, according to our CFO, that's not correct. It's in the ballpark, but but it's actually a lower, you know, hurdle uh that we have. So, we give the council, I'm sorry, we give the West
Hororns out Arts Council uh $2,500 a year in in an allocation and then the council, the Arts Council pays the township $6,000 annually uh towards uh the upkeep and the lease of that
property. So, the town actually pays about $27,000 to subsidize the location. Um, and I won't put in the rest of the letter, but now we have a target. Now we have, I think, a shared understanding of what's the bogey that we're looking at
here. And I certainly welcome uh uh the director and the board to uh um enter into discussions with uh people from the administration and and the council. But it this is going to be something that
the administration is going to uh have to uh work with. And I thought that they had been working on it because as Councilman Castelino talked about, we've been talking about this since February. So uh we need to get together and figure out if there's some way to uh uh to work
together to a solution that that that works for all of us. And I'd like that I'd very much like that to happen. Um, I'm just going to rip through some of the comments and try to answer them as as uh as quickly as I can, particularly
as it as it may be uh correcting some uh inaccurate information. Um, uh, Mr. Weisser uh asked for the legal expenses related to litigation. I think that's a darn fair comment. uh we are
going to put that together and get it to everyone put and I hope to be put it up on the website again when I talk about separation of powers we don't control the website the mayor has been adamant that she controls the website she controls the email addresses and uh we
we have to deal with that until perhaps we get a new uh town attorney uh but we'll get the we'll get the uh legal expenses and and post them uh on as Ospac my understanding is that three uh fishing docks have been reduced to two
fishing docks and and I I don't I'm not involved with the discussions but the residents uh near Ospect are discussing this I believe with the administration and uh uh uh so I I hope that comes out
to a a a a good uh conclusion. Um there were some questions about about the affordable housing and the planner and I just want to focus on on the process and not what we're what we're going through now. Uh there was there
was discussion that we need a planner. That's there's a I think a strong sense on the council that we we need a planner and we're hoping to get something done. There's uh if I understand correctly, we have now put a full-time planner in the
budget in a budget line and uh we may have agreement with the uh with the mayor to to fill that. I I I don't know exactly what's going to happen with that, but uh uh we're hoping we're
moving uh we're moving closer to it. Um we answered we tried to answer the question about the parking. Um and there was a comment that the business administrator is is earning
over $300,000 uh in an annual compensation. I assume that that's what it was. uh it is not that high and uh it's I I won't belittle the significance of the amount but again uh
in in uh settlement of litigation you cannot you're not omnipotent you have to negotiate uh if you're trying to reach a settlement so I'm going to leave it at this it's uh almost 11 so let's uh close
it out and let's move on to Council President. I just wanted to follow up on a couple items that were brought up so that we do clarify Crystal Lake. Um first of all the um that was a grant that was given to us within this past you know so many months. I think it
was around December or so um and we have until December to get it done. The director Carbalo, director Kho and myself met with um our our engineers. We came up with a plan because there is wetlands involved. We were required to
contact the DP and we're also required to notify the residents in the area. So, we weren't trying to hide anything if that was part of the process. Um, I did speak to Mr. Lewitz, I think it is Lufkin. I'm sorry. I apologize if I said the wrong name. I I advised him that, you know, we're looking at reducing some
of the plan. I also spoke with the points um president the last two days. He he sent me I met with him. we had he sent me his comments and we spoke and we're actually meeting this Monday to have more discussion with with our professionals. So, we are going to
discuss that with them. Um just so we're we're working with the residents in the area to try to make an improvement to to the uh the Crystal Lake area. Uh so we will have that and so we should have a may I may be able to report more to you um after uh the next meet at the next
meeting. Um, so that's that one. And and in regards to the arts council, I did speak with Miss Matrono. Um, and we had a good conversation and I told her that as far as like like everybody else up here, we do the administration does
support the arts and we're trying to help her out. So, we're looking to try and get some meetings together to see if we can find alternatives for them with some other solutions based on whatever the council decides on their budget and we're we're trying to do what we can to help them out. So, I'm waiting for her
to get back to me to set some dates. So, we're we're we're working on it. And again, I mentioned I think earlier, but I'll repeat it again, is the the the parking. We are we're just as concerned about the parking. And um I will talk to Mr. McCormack about setting up a meeting and then in the probably sometime after late night.
Sounds good. Thanks for that. That's that's uh uh very informative. I'm glad to know. Okay. Uh and I don't there's anything else you need to speak about, but that's about what I have. I think we're good. Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry. I
uh it's it looks like we uh I've been advised that we should take a fivem minute break. Does that work for everybody? Yes. Okay. So, we will Yeah. Yeah. I just ran but yeah. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to. Then we'll be back at uh 11:04.
Mr. President, before we take a break, I just want to point out to members of the Zoom audience, I had the wrong date up on the screen. It was an inadvertent error on my part. I made the correction and I apologize if it confused anyone, but if you're watching this meeting from home, this is the July 22nd, 2025
meeting. Did you at least get the year right? I did get the year right and it was only for a short period of time, but I just wanted to point my out. So, we'll be back uh in uh 11:04. Please, this is a problem. This is I just asked
It sounded good though. Thank you, West Star Zoom Audience for your patience. We are returning from a short break and at this time I'd like to turn the floor over to Council President. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Uh let's let's
move forward in this agenda. Madame Clerk. Okay. Uh consent agenda, approval of minutes of previous meeting, June 24th, 2025 public meeting and July 9th, 2025 special meeting. Consent.
Oh, I got to abstain from the 24th. I was not here. Okay. Seeing years ago. Yes. Yeah. Right. Okay. All the benefits of Warma. Norma benefits. Okay. Um, but we have a consent from the
other members for June 25th. Thank you. Um, and let's see, report of township officers. None. Reading of petitions and communications and bids. We have snow plowing, salting, removal, and snow hauling services. And
wasn't there one added today? Didn't show up on my agenda. Are you there? There was another one added. I apologize. Guys, I don't know why it's not on my agenda. This is the revised one, too.
Um, bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? Yes. Okay. Um, I would like to to pull some bills.
Um, I have pulled many many times before. I'd like to pull the the bill for Da Stokes. Um, I'd like to um pull for discussion with the administration
the um business admin actually for for response from legal for the um business administrator um SNW. Um all right. Can you tell me where that is on the uh bill? Yes. 188483.
Okay. for for DA Stokes it's 186949 um sorry about this um I'd like to to pull all of the bills for U Matrix and CME. And the reason why I'm pulling those
bills is that um I have repeatedly asked for um each of these entities to have a contract with the not to exceed clause. We are nearing almost a million dollars in costs for both of these companies and
it's really out of control. I the the remediation projects have gone on for years and years and years. I know that you cannot always anticipate, but we need as a council in order to be responsible with the money to know where we are at all times and there should be
an NTA clause and until that is done, I would request that my colleagues support me in pulling that. Um, and hopefully it'll be done by next next time and then we can approve all those bills. Um, I'd also like to tell us where they are
to um, Excuse me, Councilwoman. Can you tell us where the CME ones are? All of All of the CME. Yeah. Can you tell me what page? Not Not offhand. Can I get that to you after?
Well, Councilwoman Castle is asking for it. Okay. We'll open them up. While we're on the subject, I I do want to I think I've suggested this before that you get all of this information ahead of the meeting and and just you
can just email it to everyone and it will save a huge amount of time. Uh okay. Again, I just want to ask that you consider that. Council, I I have a question for administration in regards to what she's pulling. That's So my question is with the CME
um we were waiting on a report from them for uh downtown redevelopment. Did we receive that yet? We're waiting for the re report from that meeting from last week. Did we receive that report yet? We have not.
Okay. I don't know if we've received that from CMA. No. Okay. So then I'm going to um we'll take a separate Yeah. Yeah. I need a separate vote on that cuz I'm going to second her full length CMA. Okay. So I'm I'm
seeing where those bills are. They're on page 67 of 74. Yeah. Um and um finally, I'd like to hold the um bills for um for Chief James Abbott um 188614
um and that should be discussed um with the administration. 188614 you said. Yes. Okay. see of Matrix, CME, DA Stokes, James Abbott. Um,
there was one other one I threw. I think it was for the VA. The VA. Well, it's not being pulled. It's that's just I'm just flagging that for discussion. You can't you can't really pull a um SNW salary and wage. So, I just want to I just want to have a discussion
with the administration on that. And when tonight you want No, no, no. Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. because that's a okay that would be a closed discussion and I okay and and then finally I just have a
question that I did ask from the administration I just want to understand small bill here for care station for $90 for um I assume it's a employee who had a post accident testing my understanding
is that Dr. Kelly is on according to his contract 24/7 and I'm just wondering why if we have Dr. Kelly 247 are this is like this is only one on this this month but on the previous previous months we
had many many um care station bills and I'm wondering why we're having these this additional bill. Do you know why? I don't know what bill you're referring to, so I can't I can't It's It's from It's from Care Station. I I look at Mr. Kelly.
It could be that an employee had an emergent need and maybe we couldn't get a hold of Dr. Kelly. I don't I don't know without you showing me that piece of paper. I have no idea what you're talking about. So, you have to you'd have to share it with us so I could at least we can at least look into it. Right. Well, I I did ask that in one of my questions. I just didn't get a
response to that. I got the bill, but I didn't get a response to my question. So, I think that's it for right now. Thank you. That I could I can tell you by looking at this right now, this was probably a um
one of our drivers who um uh has a CDL that if there's a um an incident that occurs while they're driving, it's it's a requirement, a federal requirement to get this test to perform. That's all I can really that's about as far as I'll go with the
discussion on that. Okay. So, um I'm assuming I'm going to have to take separate votes for everything. Well, uh I have some questions. So, I don't know if now is the appropriate time. Maybe we wait till each line item that you want to vote on and then we can
discuss it. All right. So, the first one was matrix. Um, so I guess I'm gonna do a motion and then a second and then see who want who who wants to vote for it in whatever. Okay. So, uh, is there a motion to pull
the bills for matrix? Um, so moved. Is there a second? That I can Sorry, did you second it? No, I can't I'm not supporting that one. Okay. I I'm not necessarily supporting either, but I do want to have some discussion, so I will second it. Okay. now that you can have your
discussion. Okay. Um Mr. Diniac, I recall and perhaps that's incorrectly that you said that uh even without a formal contract that these two vendors
uh have I think purchase orders and so they are considered legally to be uh sufficient contracts. So many times when we have specific projects and and our our township engineer can speak to this, you know, we do a separate resolution
awarding whatever that project is to a CME or a matrix out there. So um you know some of these costs might be supported by by those resolutions. you know, we also have general engineering services which
we do um use matrix and CME from time to time that might not be project based and I I think the engineer again could speak to more detail on that. Um you know in which case uh you know I don't believe we've done a
resolution this year for those general engineering services. So being completely transparent, I I don't think we've done that this year or CME or Matrix. Okay. So that sounds like from what you just said, we need to get that done. Can
can you get that uh in a resolution for the next council meeting? Yes. Perhaps working with the town engineer that that would be that would and the administrator. Yes. Yeah. Um, and I also recognize that the work that they're doing for the
remediation is running up significant bills. Uh, uh, so I don't necessarily want to uh withhold the the payment, but I would like to hear more from Councilwoman
Ruden about about uh her concerns because uh I I certainly don't want to to interrupt them. Uh but I do want to hear what else you what has you concerned about this.
Okay. So um this year um Mr. Datiniac if you could if you could just give a summary of how much CME and Matrix have have um built those those um records.
Yeah, I think I we might have given it time. Um I think you gave me the figures and um do do you have that at your fingertips? Okay. So, it's quite a lot of money and
last year in total um CME CME um build $577,000 and matrix 90,000. This year we are we have well exceeded that and we're not even done with the year. So all I'm asking for is that what I asked for
almost from the beginning is that with a company that is doing this much business that they have a not to exceed clause so that we as a council know how much they have how much we have paid matrix we're at 423,000 423
correct and and um and CMA I'm pulling that one up. Councilwoman, so I hear you. And part of why I'm going
to support you with the CME one is because we're waiting for a report that we have not received. So I had made a recommendation that we hold off on any uh payment until we receive this report. They're waiting from last year which we
were build out all that funds. Um, a lot of it's going coming from the escrow account for um for the Lakeside Avenue uh site. But, um, matrix, I'm going to leave that up to I'd like to leave that up to our engineer because we're on a a
tight time frame in getting this remediation uh uh moving. We're way behind schedule. uh council president and I attended a BDA meeting um last week um and um we're
behind so we need to get a lot of uh you know the testing done and so I don't want us to hold them up. I get it where you want to see the bills. So, I don't know what we could come to terms with so we don't slow that
down for Matrix cuz Matrix I was quite impressed with them in the meeting and maybe uh council president uh could also comment on um you know how they're working to progress to to to to get
these done. I'm not want to give too many more details on the meeting until a later date, but um yeah, I would I would get these paid, work on what we could see, and um but I do want to put a hold on CME. So, I will
support you on that. So, I would just like to ask the administration if we could have a commitment um that not to that that both of these firms, which we do an incredible amount of business with, have contracts with
set fees and a not to exceed clause by our next council meeting. Set fees. They have set fees that they provide. So we should we should know what they are. We have that though when the resolution
when you do the resolution. No, no, no. They have their own they they provide us with their with their fee list as they did in the past. Sometimes they're billing us more than what their set fees are. But I'd like to have that list back again and a not to exceed contract.
It's it's been have that reviewed by legal. Okay. We we've got to just have one person speak at a time, Mr. Ziac. So please, yes, does need to review that resolution, but um I'm I'm sure Mr. Moraldo will will agree with me that we
can work on that before the the meeting on August 12th 12th um and have an an NTE to cover the general engineering services anything that's not been covered by a a previous awarding resolution for specific
projects because I think that's what we're missing here is more the general engineering services um for both firms and uh we can come up with an NTE and integrate whatever particular hourly
rates that that need to be into that. But again, we need legal department to obviously review that. Um, getting back to CME, we're at $450,000 for the year for CME. Okay.
So, that that's very close to a million dollars. Yeah, I know. So, oh, we know that's way over way over last year and but there's there's like an open open check. No, please go ahead. So I'm sorry but yeah there are reasons behind that and
and um because of the extensive testing and the problems that you know have been found there and again so working with the BDA and all the agencies um with helping us uh uh get the grant
awarded to us was a very productive meeting. So um you know and all you know hopefully all this going to be covered. So that's the end game. And the NTE is not an exact science
because uh of the lag time between the time they do the work and the time they bill. Sometimes it could be a month or two. And uh I also I I just want to confirm this. Our town engineer reviews all of these bills. Yeah. Correct.
Okay. So she's at least saying that when she looks at it, nothing sticks out to her as something that needs that needs to be challenged. So I I just I don't want to complicate things further to take more
time to do this if we if we don't need to. But I certainly recognize Councilwoman Ruden's uh fiscal uh concern and and want to meet that. It's just I'm I'm not sure we're ever going to get to where we want to, but but perhaps what we should do is just at
every council meeting just update these numbers. That would at least give uh Councilwoman Ruden uh the information that she's looking for even with or without an NTE and that way you can you can see what's being what's being spent.
I'm not sure what we can do to control it. So I I think the NTEEs are important for both sides. Um so that the vendor also knows that I can't bill past this amount
without going back for the council's approval and increasing it. It's supposed to protect the budget line items. Um so if you have a budget line item of $100,000, your NTE shouldn't exceed the $100,000. and you know, without having it, the
vendor could just say, "Okay, I'm I'm going to build." Not that I'm saying that's happening with either of these vendors. I'm just saying in general, um, you know, it it it keeps it should keep everyone in check. So, um, you know, I'm in favor of having the NTE on all the
professional service contracts. Sounds good, Madam Clerk. Okay. Is there any other discussion? Councilwoman Scarpa, you have been noticeably quiet. I just want to make sure you It's I think you guys have covered it all. I'm
Okay. Okay, good. You're there. I just wasn't sure you might be having a a technical problem. Okay, great. Okay. Um, so the vote on the matrix polling matrix, Councilwoman Castelino, uh, no. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa,
no. Council President Koviaak. Yeah, I think I think given the agreement that we have that that I should vote no and uh and just continue to move ahead to get this done. I don't think this is going to speed up or slow down the process. The motion failed.
Um okay. So, uh motion to pull CME bills. So moved. Second discussion. Yes, counciloman. So, please send the message tomorrow. We need that report. I'm more than happy to
pay these bills, but we need that report for the BDA uh project. So, I'm sorry, Miss Carvala, if you want to just come up here so we can Thank you.
Well, the day after the BDA meeting, we had a meeting with the business administrator, Matrix New World, CME, and myself. During that meeting, it was agreed that they're going to move ahead with it was was agreed upon with the
delineation by interpolating the data that got been collected by CME. So, they don't have to do any more testing. That being said, notifications need to be sent out to the residents within 200 feet of where this testing took place,
which is basically by the soul shed of the DPW. So, Matrix New World is going to be doing that work. So, we don't have to pay any more funds to CME because they have exhausted basically that contract.
And then once we get the um receipts or the notifications from the residents, then we're going to put it to that she's going to put it together with the report to be submitted to D, which is what you're looking for. Well, so let me be fair to CMA. Did they
give Matrix what they needed to put the report together? Yes, they did. They actually did it this week. Okay. So that LSRP Manaba from CME, she sent the information to Matrix. Matrix New World reviewed it. They said they were okay with it and they were uh preparing the
uh letters for the residents because they don't need anything else from CMA. You have everything for that. Well, up to that point, the report is not going to come until the notifications come back because typically when you do notifications, you need to send them with uh return
receipts. Okay. So my concern was I know you're waiting quite a long extensive time to get what you needed to get where you are now. So you're telling me you have what you need from them as and you're satisfied. Are you waiting on
something else? We hold up matrix to do their part which is to send out the notices. But that's on matrix not CMA. That's not C. Okay. Then I'll be okay then. Yes. Um the notification does that affect the um
animal control is that within the 200 ft? The animal control is basically right next to the shed. Okay. So bless you. Bless you. Bless you. So how does that affect I mean what I want to know exactly I I want to make
sure that I understand your question. What do you mean by affecting the animal shelter? Notified what you when you you're notifying surrounding residents, what are you telling them? It's basically a a letter telling them what the findings were at the DPW.
Got it. So, does that affect the health of the animals at that location? I honestly and truthfully cannot answer that question because I am not an LSRP professional. Um,
so no, I cannot answer that. I don't know if they have done any further studies inside the uh animal shelter to say anything about the air quality of that facility. So no, I cannot answer that. That's out of my professional uh
expertise. I understand, but shouldn't shouldn't that be considered? You know, we have it the animals in in an area that is obviously you've discovered some toxic materials and you're notifying neighbors of it.
Maybe ask uh Matrix what they think. Could you just speak up a little bit? Well, maybe ask Matrix if that quality pass the information to the LS director and see what what their response is. I could have them, you know, write us a letter or something in response to your
concern. My concern is that is that now that you have have discovery, is it is it not a safe environment? So that you understand the issue at hand right now is with the sodium that was found on the groundwater
because of obviously the soul shed. Mhm. how of a harm or a hazard to I don't know animals in the animal shelter are I honestly don't know like I said I can
pass upon your question to the two LSRPs and once I get an answer I will let you know that's the best I can do I cannot answer your question right I have heard that the animals I mean if that if there is a concern there then in no way should the animals be
allowed in that area are on that ground and from my understanding they sometimes are well let's put it this way right the PW staff and engineering staff that building yes okay yes and we have vapor intrusion studies done
so I'm assuming that if it is safe for us it is safe for the animals is it safe for you as of right now based on the results that we have received it seems that the numbers are negligible
in comparison to the ocean standards. But once again, what are the long-term ramifications? We don't know. Right. Okay. So, are we agreed you're going to pass this along? Uh, Miss Carbalo, you're going to pass this along to the LSRPs and and then forward back to Okay,
great. Thank you. Anything else? So, I guess vote. Okay, vote. Yeah, I just I just want to make sure I understand this. Uh we're Counciloman Ruden, you're asking to hold the bills, but I'm not sure what that
does to the desire, which is to get the contracts that that it was my intention was only to put pressure on the honestly the administration so that we actually get this because I've been asking for this since I almost you know almost the beginning of of getting on council and
we keep getting the same bills and I keep asking for the same thing and nothing is done. So my goal in in in asking to hold the bills is just to put pressure so that we get an answer that this can be done. Okay. Cuz it sounds like we got the answer that's going to get done. If I I haven't gotten that that
commitment, but if I if I hear that commitment, then I'm okay with it not not being held. Do I have that commitment? I think the CFO just told you that we're going to work on it for the August 12th meeting. We'll we'll have resolutions for both.
Thank you so much. then I know need to pull it. Okay, great. So, and I resend mine second being that the engineer has what she needed. Did you resend? Yes, I will resend mine. I'll resend mine. Second. Great.
All right. Thank you. Uh Da Stokes, is there a motion to pull her bill? Uh yes. So moved. Is there a second? I'll second just to find out what's going on and the implications. Okay.
So, I second. I got that. Okay. So, what's the discussion on on this? Cuz my memory is that you've been pulling the bills and I thought that once we hit uh June 30th or July 1, that was going to stop. Yes. is that
well it says that this is a final bill but we have all the back bills also that I have pulled. So um I would like to I do not think that this is a proper thing for the for the township to be paying for and so I'm I would like to pull the bills
to to what end though to what end towards not paying the these bills. I don't think it's I don't think it should ever have been authorized. Okay. So you're not delaying it to achieve some other goal. you want to correct pay. Okay, Mr. Burke, I think
you've I think you've previously uh I'm not sure with ruled is is the question, but you've addressed this question and I I'm not going to put words in your mouth. The the issue of uh Miss Stokes bills. Um could you just
tell me whether you believe they're legal and whether we should we should pay them? Uh yes, Council President. based on what we've reviewed, um it doesn't it was approved by a prior council. It doesn't appear to be an issue. Um and I think it's been referred in in the past that
the um mayor has has discontinued the service. So, it's not going to be a bill in the future. So, um we would recommend paying it. Yeah, it's uh as much as I hold my nose at this because I don't think it's proper, things can be things can be legal but
improper. Um, and I I wonder if that's the situation we have here. Well, I I still have not received a response from the ethics board of the state. So, while I respect Mr. Burke's opinion, I am holding out for another for for another opinion. Um, to me, this
this is improper use of taxpayers funds. And do you have any sort of timeline on your uh No, I you know, response. No, it's it's been a while. I've reported this months ago. Oh, so you you filed it in July. Is that what you said?
No, I I filed it maybe in March. Oh, okay. And you still haven't heard, right? Okay. Oh, wow. That's long. Yeah. And who knows how much longer. Mhm. Um, again, from my in my opinion, it's
improper, but it's legal. And I I have to assume that Miss Stokes entered into this arrangement um thinking that she was doing the right thing. And I I I don't want to deny her
funds if they're not illegal. And I don't want to put, you know, on hiatus. Who knows how long it could be. Um so I'm I'm uh I'm a little torn with this. I uh yes, Mr. Bravo,
council president, you know, even if there was an ethics complaint lodged, I don't think it was toward Miss Stokes. She performed services on behalf of the mayor. The mayor asked her to do it, recogniz the mayor recognized that that there was a conflict with this. And so instead of
continuing this conflict, she ended the services with June 30th. The fact remains that Miss Stokes performed those services under the contract she entered into with the mayor, not worrying about ethics. Um, and um, it's it's not that it's any more or any less than anything
else, but it's it's a it's a nominal amount that you know that she could probably use. And um, you know, uh, and based on advice of the council, our legal counsel, it you know, this is is this a a fight worth fighting? And I and I know it's important to the council
woman, but um you know I I think in fairness to Miss Stokes, if there is a legal and ethical problem, I think that is the mayor's issue, not Miss Stokes issue. I don't think she violated anything. So I I I would recommend we pay her and then whatever wherever the chips fall with with the the mayor's
with the complaint, then we have to deal with it accordingly. Yes. Yeah. I'd like to say that if the the mayor has recognized that this is a problem and she is stopping this practice, then it is on the mayor to pay
for this bill. I have raised this since the beginning and she continued this practice and only recently have I just heard right now um that she admitted that it is a a problem and that's why she's stopping. I didn't say she's hold
on hold on that she that that this was called into question and she is stopping this practice. Now if there was no problem with this she would not stop this practice. So for out of respect for our
taxpayers who have paid over almost $20,000 and with these bills additionally it will be it will be um I don't know what the grand total will be like 27,000 um for a service that Miss Stokes has
provided I'm sure with the best intentions but this hire should never have happened and it should be on the mayor to pay this bill. So, so the mayor didn't say it was she she recognized that there was a a conflict with this.
So, she decided that it was time to stop the services. She didn't say it was something wrong. What she did say was that she would stop services based on that till June 30th. The $27,000 or whatever figure you're coming up, I don't have the figures in front of me, is a total of several
years. We're talking a year and a half. Please let him $450 a month or something to that effect. And I think we're only talking about three or four months right now. So it's not so this is the this is the bill she performed this person performed the services. She performed it on behalf of
the mayor from the through the mayor's office through her budget and therefore we we think we should be coming out of out of the budget line. So, um, and again, going back to our our legal advice, um, this is a bill that's been submitted and it should be paid.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Yeah. So, I I hear you. I I you know I think the mayor heard you by you know knowing the council wasn't favorable of the service but again you know social media started becoming a thing with the
last mayor's um term and um you know he had a uh we had BuzzFeed here as a consultant for a while uh handling mayor uh the former mayor's page just like this mayor has a dedicated secretary you
know you see other elected officials have them in other towns. So I agree with the council on his determination. I think this is you know sore spot because you know she works closely with her in her other profession and I get
that. I think she realized that um um that was a problem for us us not for her. She still thought it was fine. So I'm not going to hold up payment. I I think we got a long night, Councilwoman. We've heard you a couple times and I respect that, but we we need to move
this forward. I I I I think we got to, you know, finish our agenda. I I respect that you do your your investigative and due diligence, but um this one I it's, you know, I think we're we're beating this one
and it's time to move on. Um just I'd like to call the vote. Okay. But just for the record, this is coming out of the business administration marketing campaign. So it's not coming out of the mayor's mayor's budget. I apologize for mis speaking, but fact remains the bill's got to be paid.
Thank you. Yeah. I I think if you really wanted to close the loop on this, the mayor should just I don't know how much money she has in her campaign fund, but maybe just I don't agree with that because if she wants to Yeah. What I'm saying is
if she wants to clear this up completely, that's what she could do. She hasn't done it so far. And uh but I I think that would really end it. So please Yeah. No. No. And I I I respect we all have our difference of opinions and uh no one said anything when the former
mayor had, you know, his social media person do his social media and and like I said, you know, you see the other elected officials on social media with their own pages. So I I don't think this is as far off as as we think and it was
a minimal amount. So well it's it's it's over one at a time. I my response to that is as I've said many times two wrongs don't make a right and if she had her secretary posting this which were basically reposts of
things that that our PIO did I would not have a problem. But the fact that she paid a personal employee from her o own place of employment, that's that's a problem. It's not having a not having a Facebook page. That's fine. It's who who
is reposting. And that that's to me seems like it crossed the line. I get it. Let's call the vote. Let's call the vote, Madame Clerk. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Uh I'm not going to pull it.
So, no. No. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, no. Motion bails. Okay. To
Okay. Um All right. Next. Is that all of them? Councilwoman, there was one here from uh Chief Abbott. Is that just for discussion? No, that is for that is for discussion after. I would just like to pull it and
not pay it right now. I don't want to have I don't want to have discussion on it. We have to vote on that then. Okay. Um is there a motion to pull it? Yes. Second. That was salary. I'll second. No, it's not it's not SNW. It's a it's a bill that he submitted.
Okay. Uh All right. Discussion. We're not discussing it. Well, you have to discuss. You don't have to. There's a motion on the floor. We can discuss if we want. Perhaps if you could explain a little bit without without violating any sort of
I can't find it on the bill. So, these are um bills that that chief submitted for attendance at a conference at a at a police chief conference. Oh, that that's probably in his contract. There's a reason why I want to have discuss.
Well, let's let's track it down. It's It's not that much money, is it? I have all the bills. It's 1,500. Yeah. I I don't think that's that's really a lot. I don't think he's going to miss it if you hold it next time so that so that we can discuss it with the administration.
Okay. Any other discussion? Don't believe so. All right. Councilwoman Castellino to Cole. Uh, yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Kakoviaak. Yes.
Motion carries. I think that was it. Okay. Um, do we prove the rest of the bill yet or? Uh, I guess we can, you know, do that now. Well, no. It's just a consent. Is
there any other Yeah. All right. Thank you. Resolutions. Are any resolutions being pulled this evening? Excuse me, Councilman. before we it it's midnight and I have two of our staff here. Um and we're going to start going into I I I think in fairness there are two employees. We should at least
discuss their like get them out and find a reasonable hour. Okay. Let uh Mr. Fonino's might be a little bit easier than Miss Carbalo. So what's the uh what's the resolution? 167-25
resolution authorizing addendum to the professional services agreement with Essex Regional Health Commission for a registered environmental health specialist. Is that being pulled? Uh, no. Does anybody want to pull this or have
any questions about resolution 167? He sat here all this time. No, he has the ordinance. Okay. So, Oh, you have the ordinance. Uh, Mr. Fonzo. Okay. So, we've we're done with 167. Yeah. No action at this point. It's going to
be consent. Okay. Okay. So, yes. 166. Yeah. No action on 166. Oh, I'm sorry. I missed that one. Resolution 166-25. Resolution authorizing interlocal
agreement with Burrow of North Caldwell for animal shelter services for the year 2025. Is that one being pulled? I have some questions. Questions? Good. Okay. Mr. Fonina, please. Okay. So, sorry. I'm so sorry to keep you here so late.
It was really crazy. Um, so, um, my concerns are that we are at capacity at the shelter right now with the dogs from my understanding. And that um I'm also concerned from what I just
heard today and what I've always been concerned about is the placement of the shelter and continuing a um a contract with an outsider um who was bringing dogs into our into our um
I don't even we don't call it a shelter. What do we call it? A animal control. Animal control facility. Um, it does not seem like a great time to do that given given some health concerns and space concerns.
I mean, we've been doing this for a number of years. Um, I pulled the statistics. I I know the the uh the agreement says um four to six animals a year. That's an estimate. Um, in the past five years, they've brought in three dogs.
In the past five years? Yes. Are any of their dogs still here? No. Usually the case is with the Burough North Cwell, they have to have a legally have to have a place to bring animals that are picked up in your
municipality and you have to hold them for seven days and then they become, you know, property of the burrow. So they contract with us. It's like an insurance policy, but ba basically it's
like anything that in in the past since I've been here, anything that's brought in is pretty much redeemed immediately like the next day or when somebody discovers that, you know, their their animal has gotten out and animal
control impounded it. So, nothing's really staying longterm. I mean, there may be cases where that has happened previously before I've been involved, but to my knowledge, since I've been in this position, it's it's a
short-term hold. Okay. So, what do you do in right now if the if the facility is at capacity and animal control from North Caldwell has a dog? What do you do? Who's telling you about capacity? I thought it was. That's what I heard. I
mean I I don't have the current census on me but we're not at capacity. We always leave a we always we provide services for Roseand Essex Fells and Rosa right for sheltering. Okay. So it let's just say that the that
the shelter that the uh animal control is at capacity would you accept it? Would you accept a dog? We would never be at capacity. We have to make allowances to have room for those towns. Okay.
All right. So, um I think that's all. Do you Does anybody else have questions? Nope. And you know, frankly, my other concern is is that this is one of the spaces that should be moved and we don't have
we don't have another space even in the feasibility study. I I've been doing some independent research. Um I haven't done it recently, but we you know, this has come up before. What are we going to do if the property gets, you know,
redeveloped? So, we we've we've had some conversations with some other towns in the past. Um and we're revisiting that now. Um, in terms of your questions, I have to say this is the first I'm being told that there was any concerns
um in the shelter. This is the first time I'm hearing of it. So, you mean tonight? Yeah. So, I' I'd be curious to know what those issues are and we could always have our vet weigh in if there's concerns for the welfare and health of the animals.
That would be great. I I knew nothing about it. So, Right. Well, that would be I I would appreciate that if I mean I know there was testing going on on that site, but I didn't realize that there was testing done in the animal control facility. There was asbestous testing also and we never heard back what the what the
outcome was. Asbestous testing where in the shelter what we had a resolution on that in the shelter? Yeah. Mhm. Resolution. I'm sorry.
Asbestous testing in the shelter. No, we didn't have I mean, the shelter was built in the 90s. There shouldn't be any asbestous in the shelter. Okay. I thought we did at at one point. I can go back and check. Yeah, I'm not aware of that either. Yeah. If that happen. I mean, usually, you know,
I would, you know, I I would have some information when they're coming in doing things like that. So I'm I'm not I'm not sure if if a vet would be the proper person to assess the safety because they don't know the safety if there if there's been chemical carbal
about the health of the animals. I was talking about that. So I'd like you know if we want to have the vet weigh in on I whatever the hazard that was determined there. I'm talking about the health of the animals not safety or anything like that. Mhm.
[Music] Well, I would suppose we're going to hear back from the LSRP. That might be uh the next step we're waiting to to hear from. The building was built in the 90s. There should be Yeah, there shouldn't be any asbesus at all. Shouldn't be anything at all. Whether it be tiles on the floor or anything?
No, there's no tiles are not right. They're 12 by 12 tiles. Vinyl tiles. Councilwoman. Yeah. And I just just a reminder for the council and the public who's watching, you could get out of this at any time if we have a you know we could move forward
if it does come up sooner that we need to space or god forbid if there's negative you know testing comes back that we should be moving uh the animals out of the space we could get out of this any time. Yeah, I think it says we have to go and find them in writing in 60 days. So I
believe that's the clause. We're okay. Anything else? No. Mr. Panzino, you can go home. Was there any other questions on the ordinance or? Yeah. Oh, there's an ordinance, too. Uh, sorry. 2935-25,
an ordinance amending chapter 25, section 11.10 regarding outdoor cafes. We could um I can make a motion to introduce or you want to go out of order. Okay.
Well, if there's only questions. No questions. No questions. 29:35. We have no questions for Mr. Fonino. Uh I I just think he I just want him to explain because for the public record
just you had had added language to that ordinance. It's back on for first reading to go along with what the state requires. So which you know I think people misinterpret it um why you did
that or why we did that but that's we how we you know when we have these ordinances that the council writes and actually it was taken off the old ordinance where somehow right it got like deleted or by accident. Well, so
again, this this is not out of the health department, but obviously we're involved because we approve the food part of an outdoor cafe. Um, but in general, I guess when the governor made outdoor cafes permanent, there was
a statute that was passed. Yeah. And in that statute were things that the municipality can do, require. So, it was like a guideline to I guess create our own ordinance. And um I think when legal
initially created the ordinance, we were kind of rushing to get it onto the agenda and some things were inadvertently left out. Some important things were inadvertently left out of the first u draft and um you know it was it was done
inadvertently but there were important things. So, we brought it back to legal and um you know had that stuff added in. So, now it should be complete for review by the council at this point. Yeah. And I want to thank you for your
time because you spent extra time on that. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Thank you for getting it right. Just get it right the first time, you know, so that there's no no problems, you know, going forward. I appreciated that. Thank you. You're welcome. That's the only question I just want.
Okay. I' I've screwed up on telling him to go home, so I'm not going to do that anymore. Somebody else is going to have to You can go home now. Thank you, Mr. Fino. You're always Thank you. Okay. Now, we are about to give preferential treatment to our town
engineer. What What does she need to address so that she can go home? Getting everything done. And so there's the resolution 16. Resolution
168 is director Carbalo 173. 178. Yes. And I think that's it. So, are there any questions for the director on 168-25?
168-25 resolution authorizing a contract. Yeah. For the rehab of Franklin Avenue and Oxford Place. Yeah. We've got a I think that's a CDBG grant and then the municipality pays for the balance. That's correct. Okay. Okay. Yep.
So, any questions? What number? 168-25. Oh, okay. Okay. Um, so we're done with that. Next. 173-25. Resolution authorizing final accounting of asbuilt quantities
for the fire station number four, site improvements project with Crossroads Paving Corp. for the electrical and fence removal and replacement work. No, I've already got my questions answered, so I'm good. Oh, mine are answered.
Okay. 178.25. Resolution authorizing an emergency appropriation in the amount not to exceed $442,71063 without authorization to Shoger Property Services for emergency storm sewer
investigation, repair, and roadway restoration within the township's right of way at Rooney Circle. So, I had asked you in my questions this week, I don't know when this resolution got in, but I think it was after I think
it was the second part of our our resolutions and ordinances, you had said in your original emergency contract memo, which is required under the state law, uh that you were going to get an estimate
from Shoger. And I just wanted I asked for it. I didn't see that it came in, but I know we've had some some uh blips in in uh the directors getting the questions both last week and this week. So, I don't know whether you had a
chance to take a look at that. I'm just reading from your face that you didn't have a chance to look at it. Okay. So, I'm not going to I'm not going to hold this up because the state law says we have to pay this, but I I would like your estimate that you referenced
in the uh I think it was in the emergency contract. It might have might have been the follow-up uh letter to the council, but I think it was the emergency contract memo, but it it doesn't matter. I'm not going to hold that up. I'm not sure if I put in an
estimate in there or I was going to just basically give you the invoice at the end. Okay. That project when honestly when it started and it kept on growing and growing and growing um Oh, we paid the final number. That's for
sure. It was very difficult even at the time what I was discussing with the contractor how to do it in a way that will minimize the cost which we did because we didn't have to actually go into the Cambria hotel
property and excavate on their side which would require you know parking lot restoration and a lot of other things. So,
no, I did not get an estimate. Okay. When we found out about the problem, when I was out there and I saw what it was, I was just like, "Okay, we we got to put our thinking hat on here. What are we going to do?" And that's when we came up with um you know, replacing the pipe basically by putting a pipe inside
the existing one, cutting out the top. That's cool. So, that way you could um do do both ends, one at each manhole. You basically hold the pipe. You put concrete around it to set it in place and then you have
the other end of the pipe do the same thing with the manhole. So that way you don't have to excavate ah on the other side. So it was a little tricky, but it was done. So in case you're wondering what the heck we're talking about, there were two
different failures of uh I think it's sanitary sewer, right? Yes. Uh, no. A storm sewer. Oh, Storm Sewer. Yes. Uh, on um Rooney Rooney Circle in front of the Cambria Hotel and it was an of an emergency
nature because the road was collapsing too. I I'm not sure if collapsing is over over description, but there was there was concern. There was definitely a depression on the road that was concerning. We put a cone and it kept on.
So at that point we had to do an investigation. The investigation started with a CCTV inspection and to be cautious I had them all done because we're also going to be doing a roadway project in couple of months at Rooney Circle. So the last thing I want is to
put brand new pavement on a road that has have more issues. Yes. So, if and when you get the the email uh with my follow-up questions, I still would like to know uh I think there's another question that I asked as well, which was which was I think there
was a reference to uh asphalt. Mhm. Uh on at least a portion of the 10 Rooney Circle property as part of a project that covered two other streets
that weren't anywhere nearby. Anyway, when you get to see the email, I'm not going to hold this this up or you up. I just wanted to please when you get that, just respond if you can, please. Mr. President, yes, I'm sorry.
So, yeah, I I was all go with this. I had an opportunity to speak with Miss Carvala earlier today and I just want to bring to administration's attention because it's something that the council had spoken about um I guess about last year or a year or two ago. Um I don't
know if it's all one big blur lately, but uh um in regards to you doing a report because we have so much old infrastructures with these pipes that there, you know, there was going to be
some kind a study done uh townwide with all of this. And I know there's not enough hours in the day or money in the bank, but um I'm not sure what's possible and and you know impossible at this point.
Just like I mentioned on last year's I will say capital budget with the previous council, the township needs what is called an asset management plan. That's and an asset management plan is basically what you need for your assets on the road. in this case would
be for the township just be the sanitary uh sewers as well as the storm sewers. If we were also handling the water then I would say yes also our water system but in this case is not the case because New Jersey American water takes care of that. So we need to find out exactly
what we own and what we have and where is located. We also need to find out the conditions of all of the infrastructure. We're basically dealing with emergency repairs on a month-to-month basis. The time it is getting to the point where like
when I get a phone call or somebody comes to my door to tell me that something is failing, I'm just like, you know, like I have to go out there and take a look at it and then figure out which contractor am I going to be able to send out there or even if it wants to do the work because right now
it's summer time is the time to for contractors to be working. So it's very difficult to even get anybody sometimes to sometimes that first choice is not interested because they're already working somewhere else. Um so it is important I think for the
township and I think I'm going to be working with our CFO and put it on our capital budget that we do have an asset management plan for both and I would like both to be done simultaneously. The reason being is because when you go out there and you got to do whether you locate things with GPS or whether you do
an actual survey, it will be a lot quicker and I would say less expensive because it's only one trip out. If they locate this assets all at once, for example, if you're on a road, right, each road probably is going to have at least two manholes, one at each end of
the intersection for the sanitary. You could have let's say four inlets and the pipes that connect those inlets the network. So you could locate all those assets simultaneously at the same time get depths and elevations which will provide me
something to work with and then we could do a CCTV inspection of our network that will give us the conditions of that network in order to be able to prioritize and not wait until there's actually failure. Yeah. Right now, I'm basically working
in the dark. I'm just being honest. If somebody calls me and they say, "Well, we found a manhole." Guess what? It is nowhere to be found. How much would that cost? It depends. Honestly,
you're looking at hundreds and thousands of dollars. But maybe what we can do is divide the township into four quadrants. Okay? North, east, northwest, southeast, southwest, and then it start maybe with
the area of the township with the infrastructure might be the oldest downtown and work our way up and and that way we could like start, you know, filling. Is there is there a company that you would work with?
There are various engineering companies and there are various ways and methodology basically to like collect this data. You could do it with GPS. Some people like to do it like that and then tie it in with the survey, which I probably think it would be probably the quickest thing to do. And
then others might have to do survey for some of them, you know, actually set up a sto station and get how quickly could could it be done? Oh, that is going to take time. That's time consuming. Mhm.
Um, and we're going to have to work with the company too because we're going to have to be popping men holes and inlets for them in order to be able to get, you know, depths, right? Okay. C, could I just I apologize for interrupting. This is not something that we need to address tonight. I think we
should move on. It's already past midnight and uh, you know, I know that Miss Carbalo will talk about this for at least an hour and it will be fascinating, but we've got to move on. And uh uh if you if you think uh
councilwoman that uh we should bring her back for a presentation on it, um I'd be happy to accommodate you on that. Yeah, it's important. Okay. So, we've done the three resolutions. Yeah. Now, we have ordinances on second and final 292825,
which is a traffic ordinance for a handicapped parking stall in front of 25 Tommpkins Street. Is there any questions or discussion on that? Well, we have to have a public hearing, too. Right. But in order to get Miss Corbalo,
is anybody here for it? Yeah, I can see I think everybody's going to be speaking tonight. God bless. Both of you hung in there. Are there are there any questions uh for Miss Carbalo on 2928? No. Okay.
Okay. So, we don't need you for that. What else? 2930. Uh, another traffic um ordinance for let's see, one-way streets designated. Parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance. Night
parking restricted. Parking prohibited during certain hours on certain days on certain streets. Um, this has to do with Stish Avenue between Lakeside Avenue and Park Avenue. Yep. We already approved that during the first reading so I guess.
Yeah. So is there any any questions or discussions? Question. This only has to do with alternate side street parking. This one? Yes. Yes. Do you need to look at it?
Isn't Standish both sides? Is Standish is going to be No, one side only. Okay. Because it's too narrow to do two. It's too narrow and it's going to be a oneway. And we also need the area for the um fire trucks to deploy. Yes. Okay.
Okay. And the permits, the night permit restricting restricted. What does that mean? That means it's going to be basically for the residents. There's going to be a number for them. And then two permits per dwelling, which is about I think only three dwellings on the whole street. And then the rest of it is going to be
businesses. Okay. So, um you heard my comments earlier. I would like to to make sure that the um residents have parking earlier than than 8:00 p.m. and um I'd like them to have priority at all times.
There's not that many resell. It's not possible to give them parking at all times at any time of the day. That's not feasible. If the if the sign said permit parking only, then they would only be it says permit parking only. There are
times of the day that they got to move and they cannot park because our DPW needs to be able to sweep the streets and do their cleaning. And that's we do that's the reason why a lot of the streets in the township are alternate parking. you know, one day of the week
this side could park and then the next day or so they they move over to the other side on the way that DPW can sweep at least half of the street and so forth. So, it is not something that I can accommodate. And I got to be honest with you, I'm looking
at Park Avenue or Park Drive. That road is extremely narrow. Yes, it is. The width of the houses, okay, doesn't give me enough length to park a car. And I don't see how like I'm going to come up with parking there. I could come
up with parking on Ashwood Avenue to give you 15 spaces and then it be basically a 10-minute walk. But it is very difficult to create I will say this pavement when there is none.
Yeah. And tiny when the road is are narrow. I can't I cannot allow parking on both sides of the road. That's just not happening, right? And and and unfortunately, like I said, I have gone
out there myself. We have taken measurements and like I said, it is very time consuming and we try to, you know, do what is best in terms of like, you know, got to understand too, if if
there's, god forbid, a fire on a street, the fire truck needs to be able to be deployed. So, if we got parking on both sides on a very narrow street, then what's going to happen? Wait, no, I I wasn't requesting that. I was just saying that can there can there
be certain streets which have very limited parking be only for residents who live live there and and priority given to residents who lack driveways? I that's what we try to do here on
Standitch Avenue is one of them. And then for the permitted parking, I have to speak also with the West Orange PD because they also they're the ones who issue the permits, not the engineering department. And there also got to be a enforcement issue. Right.
Okay. Right. But yes, we we will look into that. Okay. So then will we need to change the ordinances, the other ordinances just until that is that issue is addressed because that's what the residents have spoken to us
about. and I want to be responsive. Ordinance are you referring to the the ones um well I'm not I I'm really unclear whether it it applies to 2930 um because it says night parking restricted um but for the the other two
90 uh 2932 and 2933. Yeah, they were there. I would like and since these are both on on first reading, I would like I would like it to be adjusted so that the the concerns of
the residents are are addressed. C can I make a comment real? Just want to make sure Council Ruden, are you finished? Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. Didn't know that. Go ahead, Councilwoman. So, so, um, just
the one feedback we got from dynamic parking, and I'll leave it up to Miss Carbalo is that we had so many different signs on these side streets with different requests from the residents. I guess when it's a permanent parking
it only don't you have to um don't you have to lo I'm sure the whole street wouldn't mind it but don't you have to um um pull the street to see who agrees to the permit parking when we do a street? I don't think so.
No. Didn't we do that like on Wilfred Street and Calvin Terrace over there? Didn't the residents have to vote if they wanted permit parking or not on their street? That must predate me. I don't rec I remember that's how because that's how we used to do it. I mean there I
could see them all wanting it but yeah there there are certain streets where it rose one way and we asked the residents and and they voted it down. So Okay. Well, no, but this is not with even with the permit parking, right? Because not everybody may want it on
their street. The problem with Long View and Linsley Avenue is that there's mostly apartments. Yeah, there are apartments there. There's mostly apartments and we're basically adding plus or minus 30 parking spaces which are going to be basically first come first serve.
I mean, do you really want to be doing permit parking? No, you that wouldn't work there because it's all apartments. What I'm trying those residents have aart have cars. Okay. But we only could only I could only add 30 parking spaces.
She added parking. But if people who don't live on the street are parking there, then it's going to it's we're just perpetuating the problem. Well, it's just it's difficult. It's it's difficult to regulate because the people
in the apartments, they're they turn over a great deal. They need to have a per a sticker on their car that somebody will drive. And who's not going to get nobody's gonna force it. Well, what's the point in doing all this traffic stuff and issuing permits if there's no stickers are different when you're in
the spot? See, I guess I see it differently because I live down the hill where we have all these parking restrictions. So, what you have to understand is that the mechanism in place right now is so many hours. So you you can't just leave a car
go away for the week and leave your car in the street and you know and take up all that parking parking permit. Um you could have a permit and people could residents could leave their car parked there for a week if they go on vacation
which isn't fair either. A lot of people have driveways that they don't utilize or they have driveways that they're parking commercial vehicles in and parking their cars on the street. So like it all depends. It's enforcement and it's what we've been working on.
There isn't any perfect mechanism in place. Um you know other than the police department driving around and and looking for those issues. We have um uh some of like the automotive uh places we complain about that they're not parking,
you know, during the day they're taking these cars and parking them on side streets. Um, so there's other reasons that to help this get cleaned up and it's it's with traffic we got to talk to it. The commercial vehicles, we have an ordinance against that. You're not
allowed to have a commercial vehicle here. And if that's enforced, then they shouldn't they shouldn't be there. The neighbors got to call on their neighbor. That's true. That's what we do. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Okay. Mr. Sorado, are you guys Did you guys drain this? Mr. Sarto wanted to
speak. I think I was just going to comment. I don't recall doing them um for the permits but I you know just to add I I know that we've done that for speed tables. Oh speed tables. So that may that may be where we're confused. I don't I don't recall doing with the one way street.
Okay. Yeah. We've had we've had residents inquire like down in the valley said we said you know to get signatures to try to do that but that it was more grassroots than it was us trying to to start it up. That's correct.
Okay. Okay. So, have we drained 2930? Yeah. Let's let's keep our focus reading. Yeah. Keep our focus on getting through the agenda, please. Nothing on 2930 and nothing more. Okay. Is there anything else, madame clerk? First read on first reading 29325,
an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic temporary parking prohibition for snow plowing and removal for street cleaning and maintenance. Which one? 2932. Any questions? This is for the parking on Long View in
Linsley. Yeah. Adding 30 parking spaces and allowing them to park overnight, which is one of the issues with the I I receive a multiple emails from the residents. So, I think this will alleviate the problem because right now there's no parking permitting in Lensley Avenue.
Wow. Well, good. So, this is adding approximately 30 parking spaces. So hopefully this will solve some of their issues and dynamic looked at this street. Yes. And is this are there permits for the
residents? There is no permits. It's basically 30 parking spaces that are going to be created. It's going to be allowing them to park because right now they're getting tickets and there's no parking allowed on Lindsley Avenue, but it's wide enough to have parking. So, we're
adding 30 parking spaces and it's basically first come, first serve for the uh residents that live in the apartments. Any questions? 2933-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic temporary. Let's see,
let's get to the meat of it. The ordinance, which amends the traffic regulations of the township, updates the parking regulations on Franklin Avenue between Main Street and Cherry Street to allow for more parking for local residents, including those on neighboring side streets. Accommodations
were made to allow for snow plowing and weekly street cleaning and maintenance. This was in response to local residents demand for more on street parking in neighborhood and in part suggested by recent comprehensive parking study undertaken by dynamic traffic
engineering for the township. Any questions? Yes. Well, it's all all on these same ordinances. Is there a way that that we can work with the police department who issued this to have the parking permits
be for the residents only on some of these streets? Okay, I got to I'm going to say this. Yeah, it is very difficult to just be like let's say permit parking for the residents when we don't have enough
parking permits for the residents. You understand what I'm saying? If you have more dwellings and let's say each dwelling has two cars, the space that is available for this cars to park in the street is not
enough. Right. And there's also a section of Franklin Avenue that is too narrow. So what we did, we drove the strip up and down. There is a section by the curve which is definitely too narrow for parking. So we match let's say from I
will say it starts at Colgate Park the entrance at Colgate Park and we are matching and adding parking on that one side all the way to the Monontlair line which is what is also existing closer to the Monontlair border. So we're adding parking in there
and we're also adding some parking on the front. It is like I did speak to the uh police department on this one. Yeah, I did make a phone cut because I'm not going to put something. It's not, let's put it this way, it doesn't serve anybody me to be writing a
bunch of ordinances if they're not going to work. It's the same thing as me putting a bunch of signs on the street and nobody pays attention to them. Right. But don't do you feel that this is adequately addressing the concerns of the residents who have come here several times with I understand they have come here several
times but there's something's got to give and we got to be realistic too. A lot of these dwellings were built at a time where there was no cars
un and as time has go on and technology and advances have come you know everybody now has a car and not just one it is two and three and there's also the problem too that a lot of people have driveways and they don't want to park in
their driveways they rather park in the street yeah that's that's something that I can't control and I spoke with the police department on this and it's very difficult to do the permits is that because of enforcement
I don't know but it's also like for example even if you are to give them a permit right how are we going to do it [Music] like is it it's going to be fair how we going to like provide this permit to the residents you you eval evaluate whether or not
they have a parking uh park parking um driveway and and those that do don't get first priority and then the other ones get first priority because if they're using their vehicles for commercial vehicles,
their driveways for commercial vehicles and they're clogging up the streets, that's not fair. So, and and the permit would be for like in a region, not just for a street. Okay. I I I just want to flag this
again. Is this something that is pertinent to us uh voting on this ordinance tonight because this is on first reading and I would like to really address that permit parking be instituted for the residents based on on um whether or not they have
a parking lot. I would agree. I'd like to have that addressed. Counciloman Scarpa, just a second, please. Uh, okay. So, Miss Carbalo, did you respond to that? You're responding. If I summarize, it's
very difficult to do that, right? Is that is did I understand that? Yes. I mean, theoretically, it's doable. Yes, it is. But practically, it's it's it's much less doable. Exactly. Okay.
I mean, we don't have a system. We don't have anything really like to be um how to say this telling you that this person is parking in there and they don't have a permit. And what if they have a permit and they decide to stay there for days? Yeah. It's not
that's what's going to happen. At least at least in this manner, like if you think about it, it provides parking not only for the people who live on Franklin Street, but also provides parking to some of the neighbor streets to park if the space is available.
Right. I I understand that. So that's why I'm saying it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be specific to the block. Do you live on on Franklin Avenue and here's your Franklin Avenue parking sticker? But I mean they enforce this in in other
communities. They they have permanent parking. Councilwoman Scarpa, please please. Oh, sorry. They have permitted parking in in areas all over, you know, that I see that this is only for residential parking. You're not allowed to park here otherwise.
I I know it's it's cumbersome cumbersome, but it doesn't seem impossible. It's just another it's another step that we'd have to figure out. We are we are missing a key element of this whole issue which is the police. I strongly suggest we pass it on first
reading. You and and Miss Carbalo and somebody from the police department get together and decide whether this is something that's doable. But I we're not going to solve that tonight. Yeah. We will not be able it will have to go back to first reading if we pass it on.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, one at a time. You have the floor, but I think you're finished. Is that correct? Well, my concern about passing it on first reading is that if we cannot make substantive changes after first reading. Sure, we can. We just have to start all
over. But it's much better to get the ordinance right. At least in my perspective. Yeah. So, so I I'm going to uh give uh Councilwoman Castelino the floor and see if we can work this out and then I'll and then Councilwoman Scarpa is is next in line.
I I'm going to keep this short. So, so Councilwoman, I I hear you and I see it because again, I I live down in the downtown corridor uh behind Lady the Lord's Church. And you know, I I I
actually one of these residents when I walked in this area last summer, uh you know, working because the Colgate uh the pools there, the park's there. But here's the problem with with the downtown area and with lot of multiple
family residents. The problem is much bigger and deeper than just giving a permit because you have stacking issues in some properties. If you go down there and you look and you see multiple mailboxes like so we have a lot of enforcement that needs to be done in
that area. Mhm. I think what we need to do for tonight is to trust the study that dynamic did and like this one's labeled dynamic. Also, I don't want to start giving out permits. Let's trust the study. We we we
had the study and they studied. They were there for multiple nights. Like they they did a true study. Took them a while. You know, we we're fortunate we're getting the grant money to be able to pay for it. I we have to trust it. The other problem is look at
the next one 2934 and I'm always asking the police and I also wait is this one with a handic handicap resident. So people are always looking for their um parking stalls. That's another problem because if you go down right down the
street from the arts council I reported there was like six stalls in the row I I forget on Mitchell Street. So we have people that abuse this system that where you know you you know should she did I think last year the director went back
and took some stalls away cuz some people are getting stalls and you know rent them out like you drive by and you see us you see cars that don't have handicap plates on them. So a lot of this goes on and again there's a lot of
different issues. You go on Shepard Terrace, you see cars parked on the front lawn. So, there's a lot of enforcement. I have one on Mississippi Avenue. I got a report that there's a car parked and there's a driveway there. So, there's a lot of different issues. We need to talk with the police
department to see the enforcement could improve. But, um I we got to trust the study instead of us, you know, spinning the roulette wheel for the permits and what street we're going to put permits on. Trust the study. Let's move forward. and I would
love to have you in in a meeting to help with uh you know talk about this and get some enforcement done because it it that's what it's all about is the enforcement. Thank you, Councilwoman Scarpa. Um yeah, I just feel like we have to do something particularly for people who
don't have a driveway. If they don't have a driveway and their neighbor has a driveway that they're not even parking in and they're parking on the street, it just doesn't seem right. I think we need to figure this out and we need to give certain people parking permits.
Thank you, Councilwoman. Mr. Smaldo, I I was just going to add that, you know, we don't know what we can uh enforce. We have we really have to include the police as everybody mentioned. So, I just wanted to add that in there. Um, but you know, we got to realize too that as much as we want to do all this
enforcement, you know, we we don't have we only have one parking enforcement officer. We're trying to hire others. Yeah, you know, this is a big undertaking, especially when you're talking in an area such as, you know, down the down the east side of the h the town with with the density we have. Um,
and for us to just or to do this without getting consultation with the police department to see what works, at least right now from the relief we're hearing from the people in the audience speaking, we're going to provide them at least some relief and then we can always
address a global parking issue. Yeah, in one one project. And I and I I would, you know, suggest we do that. We are going to set up, as I I stated earlier, we're going to set up a a meeting with dynamic for the public so we can get
that kind of input, too. But it to to not implement these particular policies now for short-term relief. I think it's just something that we should Yeah, we should consider right now to help people out. Thank you, Mr. Smaldo. We are ended our discussion with Miss Carbalo on 2933. Is is do we also need 2934? We We've got to
move on. We can't. It's It's 12:30. We've got to move on. We've got a ton of stuff to do. You You guys take it up later. Is there Is there another ordinance? Just 2934. Is there any questions for Miss Carbalo?
Uh, yes. For the You're saying restricted parking and I assume that that mean Oh, no. I'm sorry. For the handicap. This for handicap. No, no questions. Any questions? Any more questions? So, thank you, Miss Carbala. Is there
anything else that we need her for? No. No. Okay. We are now going to move on to introducing the municipal budget. Uh we we didn't do consent. We pardon. We
Mr. Diniac promised the gods that be the regatory gods down in New in in Trenton that we were going to pass introduce this budget. I think on July 22nd. It is now July 23rd.
And as someone who has to pay that $25 a day fine if they decide I want to save the 25. So, uh, there was a an extra resolution added to make sure that we introduced
this sucker and that we could send it down to Trenton. So, uh, where do we go from here, Mr. toiac on that. Sorry. Do you want to drink some more coffee and wake up? I can't drink any coffee. I I'll never
sleep. Um Okay. So, uh the the budget we're introducing tonight um we did give to the council on April uh 16. Um it's two months later than I said I would give it to. Uh we originally
um started off with a municipal increase of $243 on the average home. uh with the help of this council and with the um dedicated members of the Citizens
Budget Advisory Board, um I'm I'm happy to say that we've gotten the increase down to uh $80 and we'll give you the exact change. So in other words, we've decreased the increase substantially.
of course my uh council president. Well, John or Mr. I was just gonna So, we got it down to $80.83 on on the municipal side. So the the
piece that we can control um because obviously let me move my mic. So talking over uh the tax bill is not just the municipalities piece. Um it includes the
library. So um the average increase uh I mean the increase on the average home for the library was $18.21. Um, as I mentioned before, the local tax, we've got it down to $80.83.
Municipal open space is a $0 increase. Um, the school district tax increase is $26327. That's on the average home. And then estimated right now, the county open
space increase is $8.29 and the county tax increase is $45.17. So, um, uh, there's still work to be done. Obviously, we we have a budget hearing on Thursday where, um, the
governing body, we're going to go through and do the traditional um, sort of line item voting. And if the governing body sees an opportunity to
reduce um the increase on the local tax, you know, we can through your your voting um can reduce the the increase even further. Um
so I guess that's really all I have to say about that. Um this is the introduction. Uh we are going to have a public hearing on September 30th. We will advertise in advance of that public hearing. Um and
at the public hearing there'll be um uh a presentation to go over the budget in in in sort of a different level of detail. uh the public will be able to speak and we potentially may have
amendments at uh that public hearing or if the amendments turn out to be what we call major amendments, you know, we'll have a separate hearing and a separate advertising um at the first meeting in October. So
uh the timeline right now is we're introducing tonight and then September 30th look to adopt and you know if we have amendments that are are major we would have uh an adoption first meeting of October.
So, question just my memory. Um, again, we're doing this later, but September 30th, I mean, first fourth quarter tax bill's due November 1st, correct? Correct. So, you're not giving people much time to
I mean, can don't we have another meeting in September to Right. to to pass this because when you say you're not giving people enough time, what do you mean? They'll it's still the same due date. That doesn't change anything.
Yeah, but third quarter was an estimate. The fourth quarter will be more accurate. Well, I guess it's less than the third quarter, right? So to address the the third quarter, the third quarter was so dramatic for so
many people because of the the revaluation. It's not what we're estimating for the increases essentially. It's it's that the revaluation hit. So, first and second quarter bills were based off of the 2024
tax levy, which was based off of a a reduced rate for 60% of of West Orange resident, a reduced assessment. And when that assessment went up and now they're paying a larger portion of the
taxes than they did in 2024, third quarter, it it's just such a monumental increase. So you're right, fourth quarter is not going to be as bad because again you took into account the revaluation in the third quarter. Um so
even if we had a Z increase introducing tonight and had that as part of the estimate, third quarter still would have looked like a nightmare for 60% of people. And that's because of revaluation. Uh and and there's nothing I can do about
Yeah. No, about that. Um, so I understand that the, you know, West Orange residents getting that third quarter bill was, you know, not what they wanted to get in
the mail. Yeah. But I I think we still have work to do and I that's why we have some time between final adoption. You have to have time between intro and final adoption. And I know that the citizens budget
advisory board is here taking notes and you know at 12:40 and they're still working hard on pro giving you advice and and and counsel on on this budget. So um you know again my hats off to them for all their hard work.
Yeah. So I implore the members at the deis and uh on online to vote um in the affirmative in introducing this budget even if you still think that zero is your your
target um this is only the introduction. Uh it's not the adoption and I strongly advise as we've mentioned in budget hearings um to avoid any fines from the state. So, you know, again, I I advise
you to introduce and if you feel that it needs to change, it can be changed through amendments. Go ahead. You still got the floor. So, we have a meeting Thursday, our eighth one. Our eighth one. And I know there's been a So, I know
what Madame Clerk sent us. Is that the latest updated version? Yeah, we're gonna I think we're going to start there and we're going to go through the pages. Yeah, because we got to make sure we caught everything and and if there's anything that you
know you feel we missed or you know we can we can make the changes and you can vote. Okay. Does he have the pool? I didn't see the the a page for the pool. I'm not sure if I missed. So the pool's just the utility budget. I mean I can I can give you that utility
budget. It's I mean there's really nothing. It's you trying to vary by user fees. So it's in it's in Yeah. because we used to get it broken out by the staffing and whatnot and from the pool and all that. It used to be like a whole
we can give you that. Yeah. That's that's that's easy. I noticed that. That's all. Um okay. So I look forward to that on on Thursday and then whenever we do the capital because now when would we do the capital? So,
and we could start talking about that in September. Yeah, I would say September, you know, because I don't I don't think we want to put a bond ordinance forward. I think we need to have a meeting or a presentation or
workshop at a bit and get your input before we put a bond ordinance together. So, you know, see, as we've been talking about, I think she talked about the the study with the AI for we have
I may have like fallen asleep for 30 seconds there, but you know, we've the one of the things we talked about with the capital. So, all right. Thank you, Council President. Thanks. So, I just want to go ahead, council. Um, did you did you get a response from the state to your request
that they not penalize us? They didn't write back that they were going to penalize us. So, I'm assuming that means pass this on the 22nd and you guys are okay. Um, the only response I
got officially was from local finance board and they said, "Well, this isn't a local finance board matter, so you don't have to make application." even though the letter we got from the director was you need to make an application to local finance board and they said it's up to
the director. So they they sort of kicked the hand down the road on that. So I think you're okay. Okay. And I also just just want to follow up on um council council member SC um's question. Can't we can't we move this a little quicker?
Well, you need to have 28 days between introduction and adoption. Okay. And then I wanted to make sure that we had enough time for budget hearings and amendments. And
so we, you know, we picked the 30th. There's not a we're not being penalized now. No. As long as as long. The penalty was on introduction. Okay. Not not adoption. not adoption. Uh so are are you done?
Yes. Uh I just I just want to be sure that we give people the important correct information. So whenever I talk about municipal tax, property taxes, I combine the three. I combine our municipal, our library because we pay the library and
also the open space. So, uh it looks like from what you said that the increase is somewhere around uh 90 $99. $99. Yeah. Three cents. Yeah.
Okay. So, that is the that's what the average uh residential property owner will pay in in addition this year from last year. Uh so it's not it I won't say it's not big
but it's it's a lot less than uh what was originally proposed. I think I think the increase is I just did some math real quick and I I I see 2 and a half% in the in the average increase. Is that did I do that?
Yeah, it's pretty close. Yeah. I mean, if you just look at the components of the tax levy, um, so the amount to be raised in 2024 for the local tax versus the amount to be raised this year, um, the levy itself from a whole dollar
perspective went up 1.895%, less than 2%. Okay. Um, the the library tax went up 11.57%. And that's the third of the mill calculation that and it's such a large increase because
of the assessment which really which greatly raised the taxable uh value taxable property in town. Okay. So just a couple other highlights and then we'll move on. Um I guess we need to vote on this. Uh the debt service which became a real concern in
2024 and we're really working on it. It's actually prop uh last year. Last year, this is the debt service that was taking up almost 12% of our of our budget. This year, it's going to go up slightly. It's going to go up uh about
2% uh about $240,000. It's going to be increasing slightly for the next couple years before we get to the beloved, what did you call it? The debt debt cliff. Yes. Where we jump off the cliff. Yes. Um uh spending spending is down
slightly. uh about $340,000 to 100.35 million and the debt service is proposed to rise 3.1% as I just mentioned uh if I did the math right. Yeah, that's correct. And uh so I would like to uh see if
there's any more discussion. If there's not, I'd like to move to a vote to to Well, we didn't pull any resolutions yet. We have to do that. We vote on this. I understand, but they need to pull it in order to do that. Nothing was pulled yet.
Yeah. So, but I think you can go home if there's no more questions, Mr. Diniac. Uh, appreciate it. And please drive safely. Okay. You You won't go to sleep until you do. Either either will one of our
two. Okay. Madam clerk, please take over. Okay. So is there are other than 165A-25 are there any resolutions being pulled this evening? Yes.
Uh 169 and one on fellow 170. Okay. Any others? Yes. I'd like this is I think you want to pull 171 and 172. Yes, 171 and 172.
Thank you. Okay. Is that it? Okay. Uh, is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? I I.
Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented. Uh, resolution 165A-25, a resolution to introduce the 2025 municipal budget. Is there a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve the budget.
I mean on introduction. Introduction. A second. I'll second and I'll second. Right. That's we all want that. Too many way too much enthusiasm. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden.
Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Kakoviaak. Yes. The motion carries. Woohoo. Perfect. Sorry. Excuse me. 169-25. Resolution granting Library of New Jersey, Inc. a renewal of its local
license to operate a cannabis retail business with the township of West Orange. Uh, Councilwoman Castle, you know, I had abstained the first go around cuz uh cuz I had um Oh, I did the the closing for the
property. So, I didn't want to Oh, okay. Yeah. Not for the the le but Okay. Is there Oh, so is there any other discussion? So that was it. Okay. Is there a motion to approve
169-25? So moved. Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, you're abstaining. Yeah, it's abstain. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarfa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes.
The motion carries. Okay. uh 170-25, a resolution to increase the public bidding threshold from $44,000 to $53,000. Councilwoman Castelino. Yeah, I I just think at this time I
think we should just leave it at 44 and I'm just going to leave it at that. It's late. Okay. Tired. Thank you. Thank you. Is there any anybody else? I agree. Okay. So, let's take a vote.
Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Oh, wait. No. No. See, I told you I was late. Yeah. This is to approve. So, yeah. No. Councilwoman Ruden, no. Councilwoman Scarpa, no. Council President Koviaak.
No. So, the motion fails. Okay. Uh 171-25, resolution authorizing execution of professional services agreement with Steven K. Warner of Savo, Shaw, Corsini, Warner, Gillespie, O
Grodnik, and Fiser as zoning board attorney at the rate specified in the agreement. Uh, council, well, both council president and councilwoman Ruden, you wanted this pulled. Yes. Um, I I think this is a longer
discussion. I think we just need to pull this and and clarify some issues over in between the in between this session and the next session. Do you need my reasoning? No, I just want to know if you want to table it. I think I want Yeah, I want to
Yes. Go ahead. I think you do need her reasoning because I didn't get a chance to call you today on this because we had so much other stuff today. But to to her point that we had passed a a resolution what two years 2023 and we did all the fees
and and whatnot for the escro fees for the escro fees. So we we need to I guess it's not coinciding that 125 we had escrow fees for it. That's what we got to check that out for Steven Warner. You're saying
not for Stephen but it as a um as a policy decision when we did the fees. Oh I that I don't see. So that's what she's saying. It's not it's not inconsistent to now I'm not and I explained this if if we went to 195
because we couldn't find anybody at 125 uh then we need to change the resolution. So I'm not opposed to the service being higher. I'm just opposed to you know we just need the consistency. Okay. And then they may be there there are
several problems with with both of these contracts. The first one is is that for the first three months of the year, Mr. Warner build at 195 an hour. Um, and he build that without having had a contract. Um, thereby increasing his
salary by almost, you know, 3,000 some odd more than um, Ms. McGovern's. And the two positions are supposed to have parody. So that's a problem and we as a council with the with the executive branch need to discuss how to correct
that problem. The second problem is that the um the fee schedule is is not in alliance as as um council council member Castelino was um referencing. It's not in alliance with our with our code and
with our resolutions. And we are opening up ourselves to potential lawsuits from applicants because they are being build at 195 for escrow fees when our ordinance says 125 and the online
application um uh for the for the applicants says 150. So, we got a we got a a mess here and we got to get the numbers straight and we have to follow our code. And that's why I want to pull those two.
And I and I just want to say I really appreciate how far we've come. If you look at where we were in January, we actually now have the contracts now. We just got to make a few amend make a few changes and we should be good. We should be good to go. But, uh, I I think we
should vote to table this. Okay. Any other comments? No. Okay. So, is there a motion to table 171-20? So moved. Second. Um, Councilwoman Castelino, uh, yes.
Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay, the motion carries to table. I just want to write that. And is there a motion to table 172-25?
So moved. Is there a second? Look. 17. It's a second. Okay. Thank you. Um, Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa,
yes. Council President Koviac, yes. Okay. The motion carries to table. Okay. And I assume you'll bring that back to the legal department. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, that takes care of the
resolutions. Uh, ordinances on second and final reading. 2928-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-32.1
handicap parking on streets of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final? Make a motion. Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden,
yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Now is the time for the public hearing for ordinance 2928-25. Come on. If you would like to speak uh like to speak at the public hearing,
please raise your hand, be recognized by the chair, come forward, and you will have up to five minutes to speak on this issue and this issue only. Is there anyone who'd like to speak at public comment? Public hearing, excuse me, please raise your hand. Seeing none, I
close public hearing, Madame Clerk. Okay. Is there a motion to approve 2828? Second. All right. Please, can I please don't do that to me at this late hour because it gets very frustrating. Thank you. Um, and I really need to put
on record 2928-25 on second and final reading. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Okay. 2930-25
an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-18.1 one-way streets designated subsection 7-12 parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance subsection 7-14.1C
night parking restricted subsection 7-46.2 Two, parking prohibited during certain hours on certain days on certain streets servicing residential land uses except by permit and 7-46.9C
permit parking exceptions of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? I'd make a motion. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino.
Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, I'm torn on this one because I don't think it's right. But that's okay. Yes or no? Uh, no. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay, the motion carries. Now is the time for the public hearing
for ordinance 2930-25. Anyone wishing to speak on this should raise their hand, be recognized by the chair, come forward to the podium to my right, and you'll have up to five minutes to speak on this issue and this issue only. Is there anyone who'd like
to speak at the public hearing? Please raise your hand. Seeing none, I close the public hearing. Madame clerk, is there a motion to approve 2930-25 on second and final reading? Yes. Oh. Uh, I second. Thank you,
Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, I thought we just voted on this. This is for second and final. Second and final. This is to approve it. Yes. First one was to introduce. Okay. All right. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa.
Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. The motion carries. Ordinances on first reading. Ordinance 2932-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-7.3
temporary parking prohibition for snow plowing and removal. Subsection 7-12 parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance. Subsection 7-14.1C night parking restricted and subsection 7-14.7
alternate side parking of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? Yes, I make a motion. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden,
no. Did you say no? I'm sorry. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay, the motion carries. So, question, how is this there are permits
being issued for nighttime parking? We had a whole discussion about permits being difficult to to um enforce to to give, but there are permits being given. So, I'm really confused about how is
will there now be a discussion with the police to see how we can do this? I thought that the council president said that perhaps uh the administration, the police, someone from the police department and yourself could sit down and discuss it,
right? Which is why I I my preference would be to get it right the first time instead of instead of So you introduced on first reading um and now there you can have the discussion between now and August 12th and then
Yeah. and then recommendations can be made. And if the recommendations were to be made, I would do it ahead of time before the meeting. And that way you'll find out if they're substantial or not and whether it has to be reintroduced on first reading. Got it. And Councilman, I'll work with you
because I I think Well, not only that, the dynamic parking people may want to weigh in on it. Oh, yeah. And and I'd like to have the neighbors, the residents involved, too. We got a lot of neighbors area
get that done. But I I stated earlier we're gonna we're going to set up a meeting in in September with dynamic in order to get this done for August 12th. This is going to happen. We can't meet with all the neighbors and not all of them, but the ones that have come here should be included. They've they've been very clear
selectively enforced. We're not now we're now we're only fining to certain people. If you're going to open up to the public, you got to open up to the public. So, we we'll get our we'll get our professionals in there to give it an opinion to see what it is. And then when we have our meeting in September, we can open up to the general public.
Like I said, trust the study. Got to trust the study. We got to let it work. We did all that work. Let it work. Okay. Gotcha. 2933-25. Okay. An ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-7.3
temporary parking prohibition for snow plowing and removal. Subsection 7-10.2 stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets on certain days. Subsection 7-12 parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance. Subsection 7-14.1
night parking restricted. and subsection 7-14.7 alternate side of alternate side parking of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino,
yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. 2934-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-32.2
restricted parking zones of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? Motion. Thank you. Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Kakoviaak,
yes. The motion carries. 2935-25, an ordinance amending chapter 25, section 11.10 regarding outdoor cafes. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? So move.
Is there a second? Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Pending matters, new
matters, council discussion. We have a matter here. Council consensus appointment economic development commission. I'm not sure if anyone had an opportunity to talk about that. Does that even No, there are no appointees to that commission. Sure, there are.
There's a council consensus. I go to them monthly. Yeah, there is a council consensus. What position? That's Ros. Is she stepping down? No, she wants to continue. Oh, well, yeah. Can we just You can have her continue. I
make a motion for Ros to continue. I'll second. Yeah, I'll second. Okay. Um, there you are. Any discussion? He's doing a good job there. Keep up the good work. Yes, Councilwoman Scarpa.
No, I didn't have anything. Oh, okay. I'm all for Ross. She's doing a great job. I I have a little problem. Okay. Okay. um for the the cafe ordinance that we just passed. I did want to make a a
small amendment. Is there any way to do that? Go back. No, but I mean not right now because you already approved it, but you can certainly do the amendment and then again bring it to legal before second
before August 12th. They can implement I mean go to a planning board and it's going to the planning board. Why can't we just She can do amendment tonight. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, I don't have it in front of me, but we have we we have in the
ordinance that it says that you have to have all um Oh, yeah. doors shut to preclude um sound from the inside to the outside.
And I would like to just add that the doors must be um sound like some sort of sound barrier. Um like a a solid door, not a they question it now. I believe
not a screen door. Okay. I thought you meant like a soundproof door or something. A a a solid door. Not a screen door. Okay. And can you tell me what section that's
in? Um um it says here all doors and windows that open. It's at letter M in section two. It says um all doors and windows that open to the
outside shall remain closed. Okay. So you want I want to include and those doors and those doors must be solid must be solid not storm or screened or
screen doors open. I also I'm gonna I'm gonna also ask because Mr. Well, we have to take a vote on first. Okay. Um Okay. So, the motion is for it to
read door must be solid not form or screen in section letter M section. What is it? Letter M section two. Two. Sorry. M section two.
Okay. Um, it's Does someone want to make a motion for that? I make a motion. Thank you. Is there a second? I'll second it. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Kakovia,
yes. Motion, please for the amendment. Okay, I'm looking who are where and also in section two where the languages for the fence to make it decorative or the
barrier. Trying to find out where he see tables space. Okay. Move such as a rem removal fence shall be required. It's it's C. It's
number two letter C. Yeah. So yeah, and just when that language was first written, don't forget that with this was co times of co and people were put outside. So we just had metal barriers and you know we were just now they have all different decorative
kind of uh spaces which is nice. Um, some form of space deloonation such as as a removal fence shall be required in a parking lot or on sidewalks.
Um, some form some form of formal decorative space where we put the vote in. it. Um, Councilwoman, is that really necessary? Because a lot of people put
up their their little um tables in front of their their stores and people walk by. Do you you want to have a Well, he just made a recommendation because he's from the downtown committee. We try to make things decorative and and whatnot.
So, I don't know where would be appropriate, but I don't think it's a substant. So, we could think about it and Okay. add it. So you want to just put in aesthetically pleasing. Fine, that works. Okay. So tell me what it how it should be. Some form of
a formal space delineation which is aesthetically pleasing. Jeez. Okay. [Music] Such as a removal. Uh is this is the wrong word. Such as a removable not
removal fence. such as a removable. Yeah, that word has to be removable. Removable because now like downtown we had we found these stansions that or screens
that so it's a barrier. Yeah, you want something to look a little nicer. Okay. So, is there a motion for that? Um, I'll make that motion. Second, Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes.
Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Kovia. Yes. The motion carries on the amendment. Okay. Now, I'm just so the design
[Music] Are we waiting for council president to move the meeting along? No. No. I was I I I can't think. I My eyes hurt. So, I'm going to There was one or two other recommendations. I'll figure out where to put in this and I'll
give to somebody. I I lost the rest of my planning board meeting. They wanted to know. Okay, here we go. Okay, ready to move on. Um, okay. Now we are on to ABC matters. So,
I need a Hold on. I'm so sorry. Uh, Council President, point of clarification. Can I close out the uh, Zoom meeting or do we need to continue? Yes, you certainly can. We are finished with the public meeting. We're moving to
uh, yes, there are uh, 115. No, 15 people are on. Thank you. Thank you to the 15 and to Rob for sticking with us. Um, council, you guys have to call me before I close out the meeting. Councilwoman Scarpa has her hand raised.
Yeah. If you close the meeting, are you going to lose me? Do you have to call so Joe could go home? Um, yes. If I close the meeting, I mean, it doesn't look like you're going to be long in the ABC meeting. If there's no objection, I'll just keep the meeting running. Well, I I rather close out, but I got to
There's Yeah, it's not going to have any audio. My audio is not working tonight, so I would suggest that he stays. Yes, I can do that. And sorry, Jan and then cut this out. No, we don't have to cut it out. There's no reason why the public can't see this.
Oh, yeah. Um, so is there a motion to enter into the to adjourn the public meeting and enter into the ABC hearings? Second. Uh, Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden,
yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay. Okay. So 76925 hearing on renewal for 202526
license term Angelito's LLC. Is there a motion to approve? I'd like to make a motion to table it. I'll second. This has to be This is the renewal for his license. It was due on June 30th. He
did not have tax clearance. He is um he has met all of the criteria. He's paid his fees. He has received tax clearance. He received an ad interim permit from the state ABC which will expire prior to
our next meeting. Um and he would have to get special permission in order to have another ad interim permit. There's no guarantee that will happen. Um so here okay. So I get all that and he has special conditions. I just
he has special conditions that were implement I would like to speak to this. Apologize. No, that's fine. He has special conditions that were implemented when the prior Good night when the prior owner of this license owned it. I spoke
with the police department and he has not had any complaints on his license. The last complaints were 201 and 2011 when the prior owner owned this license. I wrote an email to everyone today.
The only complaints that they have had in 2024 was a parking issue and there were two medical calls to the facility and that's it. There was nothing more. There is absolutely no valid reason that
you should not pass this tonight. They checked the CAD report to make sure and spoke to Lieutenant Karns. I had at least three conversations with him about it and that is what he told me. So, are we open for discussion now?
Well, we didn't make a motion or anything. Yeah. No, I was going to just table it. I wasn't going to not not, you know, I just wanted to get Yeah. I see you talked to Lieutenant Karns. Lieutenant K. Yes. Yesterday and today
just reading it. They They've done literally nothing wrong at all. Nothing. I got to tell you, I I go there frequently for dinner. It is great food. They have the license. It is it is always just very civil. You don't get
any of the stuff that was that was going on there under the previous lency. Right. All right. And I'll be fine then. And I encourage you to go just to try it out. It's if you like Peruvian food, it is Yeah, I do. Out of this world.
Okay. So, anything else? I just have a question. In terms of the hours of the establishment being open, is that something that we as a town can regulate? I know we can't do it right now, but is that something that we can regulate? Well, the hours are set by state
ordinance, but we can we can be stricter as a township. I don't know if you can I'm not an ABC attorney. I don't know if Mr. Burke would know, but um I don't I don't think there's a way that you can tell an establishment to close sooner. I don't
know for sure. Yeah. If there are special conditions there are, right? Only if there special. But what what would you base that on? They haven't done anything wrong. They haven't had any complaints. I I wasn't asking about the
Oh. Oh. Oh, I thought you were generally I'd have to find that out. I don't know. I mean, I don't know if you pass a townwide ordinance to have to be townwide and but Yeah. and state supersedes town because that did come up where where
many bars had wanted us to stay open later because they get a later crowd and we denied that and even holidays they they want yeah and we denied that us to wave that which we don't do that so
okay can we move to the issue at hand is there a motion to approve 769-25 thank there a second Second. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Kovia,
yes. The motion carries. The next one is 779-25. This is uh hearing on renewal for pleary retail consumption, distribution, and club, I'm sorry, club licenses for the
202526 license term. The two lences on this um resolution have met all their criteria. Um I have a question. And have paid all their fees and are
ready to renew? I have a question. Why are we calling this a club license? It's not a club license. That's the only club license we have in West Orange is the Elks. that this just groups them all
in. Both of these on here are consumption licenses. Okay. But that's just the title. Okay. It made me nervous. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Only the only club actual club license is the Elks Club. Made me nervous at what is it?
122. Yeah. Hey, we can make the board. Yes. Is there a motion to approve on 779-25? Yeah, I'll make a motion. Thank you. Second. Second. Second. Councilwoman Castelino.
Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Okay. Is there a motion to adjourn the ABC hearing? So moved.
Okay. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. The meeting is adjourned. Good night, West Orange. Good night. Good night.