Good evening, West Orange, and thank you for your patience. We are just a few minutes behind schedule. Welcome to the township council meeting for November 24th, 2025. Uh, as we prepare for the Thanksgiving holiday, just want to remind everyone that municipal offices are closed
Thursday and Friday. Uh, and have a happy Thanksgiving, everyone. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to our council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan and thank you uh for everybody who's here. We just need to keep these doors closed because there's a lot of celebrating going on
and it makes it hard to hear inside the chamber. So, please don't open that back door. Just let people open and close it, please. Uh welcome everybody. We've got an important event tonight and uh but unfortunately it was originally on the
agenda for the first, but someone just a little bit less important than the new council woman uh is going to be coming here in a little bit later. So, we're going to move around the agenda and we are going to start with the uh mayor's proclamation uh for world uh uh
pancreatic cancer day. It's an annual uh commemoration that we do and have asked uh Mayor McCartney to come and and kick us off. I also want to just apologize. Uh I I may have given uh our assistant
town attorney uh Mr. Greg Pastor uh who was supposed to be providing us Hey guys. Guys, come on. We've started the meeting. We started the meeting. I'm I'm fine. and happy with you guys
talking. Just do it outside, please. It It's really hurts our ability to hear. >> Um, no. >> Anyway, as I was saying, we our new assistant town attorney, Greg Pastor, I gave him directions here. >> He's here. >> Oh, he is. Where is he? >> He's speaking to Peter.
>> Oh, okay. >> So, I thought I had gotten him lost. So, obviously that didn't happen. >> No. >> Mayor McCartney, please kick us off. >> Thank you. >> Wait. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Do this every meeting. I apologize. You don't have to live with this another
month and then I'm gone. >> No, it's >> Madam Clerk. >> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the
Township Clerk's Office on January 7th, 2025, and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present.
>> Council President Koviaak, >> present. >> Mayor McCartney, >> present. >> Okay. Now, Mayor McCartney, please take it away. >> Thank you, Council President. So, good evening everyone. I see we have a full house and I know that everyone's here to celebrate the reelection of Councilwoman
Tammy Williams. So, welcome. We're all here to uh to be celebrated. So on tonight's agenda, we also have a proclamation. We consider November to be Movevember for mental health and awareness month. And each year, Todd,
I'm not really sure how many years we've been doing this, but for many years, we do recognize World Pancreatic Cancer Day observed on November 20th. It gives an opportunity for communities, organizations, and individuals around the world to raise awareness about
pancreatic cancer, its symptoms and risks, and the importance of early detection. And just like we did in October for mammograms and breast cancer, early detection in all kinds of situations is most important. In 2025,
an estimated 67,440 people will be were diagnosed with pancreatic cancer in the United States and 51,980 died from the disease. Approximately 1,400 people will lose their lives to
pancreatic cancer in the state of New Jersey. Pancreatic cancer is one of the deadliest cancers. It's currently the third leading cause of cancer death in the United States and is projected to become the second leading leading cause within the next 5 years. Pancreatic
cancer has the lowest survival survival rate among all major cancers with a five-year relative survival rate of just 13% and accounts for about 8% of all cancer deaths. When symptoms of
pancreatic cancer pancreatic cancer present themselves, it is generally in the later stages and less than 20% of the pancreatic cancer patients are diagnosed when the disease is confined to their pancre pancreas and 87% of the
pancreatic cancer patients die within the first five years. There will be more than an estimated half a billion new pancreatic cancer cases diagnosed worldwide. excuse me, a yearly increase of 3%.
Pancreatic cancer is the seventh most common cause of cancer related deaths across the world. The good health and well-being of the residents of the township of West Orange are enhanced as a direct result of increased awareness about the symptoms and risks of
pancreatic cancer and research into its early detection, causes, and effective treatments. So now therefore, be it resolved that I, Mayor Susan McCartney, and on behalf of the town council, do hereby proclaim pancreatic cancer world
awareness day here in West Orange. And I am joined today by Todd and Lee Cohen, who have brought this to our attention because of personal reasons that they are here to explain to us. Thank you, John.
Welcome. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, council. We're not the Kell astronauts, so don't get us confused with them. Um, yeah. So, we um my brother works at West Orange High
School. I work at Liberty Middle School. And uh at Liberty, we have a year, we have a day every year, uh where we have students wear purple and and raise awareness about pancreatic cancer. Um, our father passed away in 2002 from this terrible disease. Uh, there's a higher
incidence rate in Ashkanazi Jews and also African-Americans. And the problem with pancreatic cancer is that there's no real early detection method. There's no blood test. There's no easy way to detect this disease. So, by the time you
find out about it, it's already likely metastasized. That's why the survival rate is just 13%. When our father passed away, uh the survival rate was 6%. So, it's doubled, but not much has changed about this insidious disease. If you know someone that is fighting pancreatic
cancer, I urge you to go to pancan.org. There's a hotline. All the information is free. Um you can learn about clinical trials that could make a big difference in um possibly surviving this disease. Um we also have a walk. It's called
Purple Stride New Jersey. It's every April. It's in Paripony. Last year, we raised over $600,000 to fight pancreatic cancer. So, you know, we're we're not going to stop. Um we might have lost our dad, but you know, we want to change the trajectory
of this disease this year. 52,000 people are going to die from pancreatic cancer. Um it's unacceptable and more needs to be done from um a congressional standpoint, from a federal government standpoint, and also like I said, raising awareness. contact your local uh
congress person and let them know that pancreatic cancer um needs to be addressed and uh hopefully by raising awareness through this proclamation and uh doing things by wearing purple every year helps raise awareness for pancreatic cancer. So like I said if you
can go to pancan.org or call the toll-free number 8774128735. We're also on Facebook, New Jersey Pancreatic Cancer Action Network, and you can learn more. Um, I just want to thank the mayor once again. I want to thank the council. I also want to thank Melanie uh for setting this up and Karen
in the past for setting this up as well. Um, really it's a this is such an amazing community and uh, you know, it's it's great to know that you guys are helping raise awareness for pancreatic cancer and uh, we thank you for that. You guys have been doing this for about
10 years now. Can you get it straight? >> We'll do the same thing next year. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> So, we still don't have the slightly less important person tonight for
Councilwoman Williams uh swearing in. Just want you to know that this is a secret. When you fill a vacancy in the state of New Jersey, you can get sworn in instantly once the vote is certified.
So, Councilwoman Williams has been certified and has been sworn in, but she hasn't been sworn in by state senator and former mayor, West Orange mayor John McKon. So, that's what we're waiting for. And he's uh he's building suspense.
So, we're going to move on to the next uh item in our conference agenda. And as uh some of you may know, uh the uh West Orange Police and uh the administration and a uh consulting, actually a couple
of consultants have been talking about improving the parking and traffic flow here in West Orange. And one of those steps is to try to address the parking problems uh primarily in uh the
neighborhood uh east of Rollinsson. And as you can see, it takes several police officers to to explain this to us what they would like to do. And uh so I would just
appreciate you giving your uh uh your attention uh to this. This is uh Captain Matula. >> Sorry, I didn't want to get wrong, but >> I'm not related to those other two either. We just have to say >> Okay. Have the same haircut.
>> Yes. Captain Kelly, the third twin. You didn't know about the third Kelly twin? Anyway, Captain Duel, please. >> Okay. So, prior to my promotion to captain, I was in charge of the traffic bureau for eight and a half years. I worked out of the Valley Road substation down there.
So, I basically lived in the valley 10 hours a day, 5 days a week. So, I Where are the problems? I've dealt with a lot of it. And so, I'm going to present some things here that we've been looking for. Okay. So
it is the opinion of the traffic bureau that in order to fix the problem somewhat would be to make the streets those following streets up there one way. >> Can I just interrupt you for a second? Can everybody hear Captain Matulo? >> Sorry. >> Yeah, there you go. Thank you. That better.
>> Thank you. Yes. Much better. Thank you. >> So our suggestion to alleviate the parking problem is to make those streets up there one way. This will be the map. The streets in yellow would be converted to one ways.
The streets in green are remaining the same as they are now. With with the switching of the streets to one way, there'll be parking allowed on both sides with the exception of a two-hour block on each side once one day
a week for street cleaning. So, we have some pros and cons. Obviously, it would increase the amount of parking. It almost doubles the amount of parking in the V. Actually, more than doubles. Allows parking for businesses, improves access to emergency services,
drivability. Obviously, the con cons would be travel time for the residents, and we'd still allow non-residents to park there. I know we had spoken about permits. um per permits bring their own um list of issues. Number one would be
enforcement. Enforcement be very difficult considering from where it is now. There's a few streets I know we talked about Glenn and Oakidge that have permits. Um they have driveways and if you go by there during the day, there's probably six, eight, 10 cars in the street that have to be checked and they
police their own neighborhood. So you usually have to check the ones that they know are not from there. on that area right there. There's 200 on these streets that we have now that we're considering for permits. There's 273 homes. So, one of the issues would be how many
permits are we giving to each household? If you have a household with three families in it and they have three cars each, that's nine cars. That takes up a lot of room on the street. So, right now on the north sides of those streets there, there's 192 spots for 273 houses.
On the south side, there's 171 spots. for 270 jobs. So by allowing parking on both sides are pretty much more than doubling what we have now. Um the other issue would be the process in which permits were issued. I mean in order to
put this permit system in place, you're probably not looking at summer the earliest before it would be done. We would have to have you know ordinance passed custom signage and then the permits would have to be issued. So, the newest system we're getting streamlines the process, but all the
documents would still have to be uploaded and approved by someone and you're talking upwards of the amount of 500 permits. That also eliminates if you live on an area like if you live on Valley Road and you can't find parking Valley Road, you wouldn't be able to park on any of those
other streets. If you go to visit a business there, if you go to visit a friend and they don't know about this, because no matter how much we put out emails, 911s, whatever, people are going to say, "I have no I have no idea you needed permit to park on the street." We were still
dealing with that with a lot of the other issues we have here. Um we're suggesting we do it for six months and reassess see where we're going there because and I know a lot of the issues are the some of the issue is the seat hall students. I mean they're
part of the problem but they're not the problem because between May and September when school's not in session we still get a lot of parking complaints in that area. Uh, another issue it permits is you have people who live in that area who are
undocumented, who do not have a New Jersey driver's license or a New Jersey car registered and would not be able to prove their permits, upload their documents to provide that. This is most of the stuff I was just
talking about with permits. Also, if you depending on how many permits are issued to each street, you may have a permit and not be able to park on your street. You may have to park on a block one or two blocks away. And then you're going to have people who live there saying, "I don't recognize this car and we're going to be going
over there." And I think it creates a lot of undue burden. And I think the most cost effective and quickest way we can get this done is by making the oneway streets. It's basically an ordinance and signage.
Um, also this is in regards to the permits. Also the community policing unit, the traffic bureau and the parking enforcement officer is who doing most of the majority of the parking enforcement. And right now they're doing it by hand because they do not have computers. So
they would have to actually run these plates over the radio individually to check all the cars to see if there was permits issued or not. >> The next one. So I said our stance is that one way streets is the
most effective way to alleviate the parking issue. >> Thank you captain. Uh is there any questions from the deis council ruden? >> Um this does not address the problem that we have with parking from seatan
hall residents. If there is no permit on the vehicle, how do you know if it's a Satan Hall Sedatan Hall student and or a resident? >> Well, no. >> So, you know, as if we do oneway streets, it would be the same way it is now. Anyone could park there.
>> Well, then that that major issue is not being addressed. >> It's part of the issue. It's not the whole issue. The major issue is the parking. There's not enough parking spaces, >> right? So it wouldn't the permits is not going to alleviate the parking problem.
>> I'm not disagreeing with with your first your one time. Counciloman, let let him finish. Please go ahead. >> So this parking spots the way they are now if we issue permits would stay the same. They only be all by the park on one side of the street. So it does that doesn't fix the problem
of there's not enough actual parking spaces for the people who live there, especially on the over. What is your solution to the amount of cars from the seat and hall students that are parking on these streets that are taking up the spaces in a very tight area? I
>> I understand and it's always been like it's a public street and they're allowed to park there just as if you drove down there to visit a friend, you park there, >> right? But they are not permitted to park on the streets above there. And rescending the parking above is still not addressing the problem that the residents are facing.
>> Understand? It's it's a problem we've had for eight and a half years that I've been dealing with. >> Can the would you recommend that the Satan Hall students park in their own parking lot? >> Yes. The problem with that is the Satan
Hall school charges them extra >> and our residents are being charged with tickets. We had one resident who came in with $1,200 worth of tickets. So there's a charge for our residents versus the students.
>> Yes. Well, when they park illegally, they get tickets just like she was parked illegally and she got tickets. >> No, I'm I'm saying I'm saying >> issued them tickets when they're parked on those streets that they're not supposed to or they're blocking the driveway and this and that. And I understand and it is a Satan Hall issue that we've addressed with Satan Hall multiple times. I just don't know the
legality of them being able to force people to park in a certain area. If we had parking permits, wouldn't that make it very clear that the students cannot park on those streets and the preference would be given to the residents? >> Possibly. I don't know if that the legality of parking permits for all the
streets either. And then it would just push the problem further. Then there kids would move from that area to another area of town and then we're pushing permits in those directions also. So, if they don't park there in those couple streets and then they end up parking now above Rollinsson
and those streets, then we're going to have to permit those streets and then they're going to go above that to Gregory and then how further how much further are we going to push permits throughout the township? >> Well, we already have required permit parking above Rollinsson. So why not just make it a policy that
the students need to park in the parking lot and not on residential streets where there's already a constricted number of of parking spots >> portion of the >> well we can with permit parking >> saying they're going to move to streets
throughout where there is no permits. >> Okay. So, if I could just interrupt for a second, I I think Captain Matulo is referencing that it's unclear whether it is legal for us to prohibit anyone from
parking on a public street that is maintained by tax dollars. >> Correct. >> And that indeed we do have that process in place uh to the west of Rollinsson. But the issue at least that we need to consider is that that potentially that
that first we need to do legal research to find out if that's legal. >> Yes. >> And then we need to figure out where we go from there. But it may very well be even though we have uh we do have uh the permit parking there. It may or may not be legal. Uh obviously we still don't
know because nobody seems to have challenged it to the extent that that we could determine that. So that's really what we're we're we're talking about now and we're trying to figure out uh next steps. >> The Glennon Oakidge permits were put into place I think in early 2000s. >> Yeah. >> 2001 when it was old. Yeah.
>> Okay. So Councilwoman Ruden, I I just wanted to sort of step in just to clarify, but please you have the fuller. >> No, I just I I'm just not clear that have many many towns have permit parking. Um, I don't believe that it can be legally challenged that a a
neighborhood that has tight um parking spaces um should be allowed to create permit parking. And we've done it in other areas in the township and it seems like we should extend it to the area that really needs it throughout the throughout the valley and across Main Street
>> where we've done it before are very small controlled areas. Also enforcing the parking when you have cars that are nail nose totail length of all those streets is going to be very very difficult if not almost impossible. >> Yeah. >> And the leg and the manpower we have right now.
>> Yes. And uh this is not a limited area that we're talking about now. So thank you Councilwoman. Councilman, you were next. >> Yeah. Thank you. So, I I don't want to take up most of the conference agenda because this isn't a problem we're going to solve right this second, but have you done a deep dive in having conversations
with the business owners? Cuz it is difficult down there, Councilwoman, because we have a lot of our small business owners in that corridor and their their customers do park on the side streets during the day. So, if permanent parking is going to definitely impact those business owners, that's
where the one-way streets helps the business owners and our residents. And I I encourage everyone to come to the meeting on uh December second uh here in council chambers. It's flex hours 4 to
8. talk to our our uh our consultants and and take a deeper dive and really look at it because I know everybody's hung up on these one-way streets and this has been a conversation for many many years in this area and and and not so much uh on uh the other part in the
heights but again you do get used to if you have to you know uh go a different way and I know it's inconvenient to some but it's also safer because when you drive down and the streets and people are going fast, you know, if the
traffic's not crossing each other, it's it's safer uh with the one-way lane. So, I think it's something everybody needs to take time. They need to consider because I know you're trying to solve a problem for the residents, which I we all are and we've all been trying to do,
but you're also causing a lot of harm to the business owners as well. And you got to find that balance. Thank you. That was kind of like my the reassessment. If we if it works after like six months or so that we're not having the same number of complaints about the seats, then it works.
>> Yeah. >> If now we could reassess then and decide another course of action. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. We've been kind of talking about this for a month. Um I don't understand why we don't have a legal opinion on whether there's permit. There's permit parking so many places in so many
municipalities. Can we get a legal opinion on whether it's viable? >> Yes. So I I I had a question. Um are the permits where we have them in town, are they effective 24 hours? In other words, >> no. >> Okay. So that kind of tells you like
it's during the day you're not going to really get a benefit out of it. So the the students parking on the street during the day permits are not going to impact that. >> Yes. They would be they would be only during the day the permits. >> Right. Right. So I'm saying I if it's residents only
those are just night hours right 8 to 6 or something like that but it's all day. >> No if we did the permits there would be during the day we need a permit to park during the day. >> Okay that's that was my question then. Yeah I I I would definitely look more into that. I don't see any reason I mean I've heard of permit parking in other
locations. Um I just based on what the captain's saying I'm not sure it's practical but we can certainly look into it and make a a legal determination. >> Yeah I'd like an opinion. Sure. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Um, I wanted to ask about this trial period in terms of
what are the what would be the metrics if you've gotten that far of what you would look to see as to whether that might be successful or how successful that it might be. >> I haven't really gotten that far, but I think it would be by the number of complaints that we rece how many complaints we received in that time
period and how well it works as far as with the street cleaning and >> um with with you know resident response to it. >> Okay. All righty. Uh I think that's Mr. SMTO. >> Thank you. So just real quick I want I
want to reiterate what Councilwoman Castelino said. So we have put together a second study so all the residents know those are in attendance here tonight and those were on on TV. Um so next Tuesday the the 2nd we are having an openhouse uh meeting. Our professionals will be
here, the engineers will be here, the traffic engineers, our engineer will be here uh to answer all questions. It is an open forum so you can come and speak about whatever you want from any time from 4 to 8 because we want to make sure that our businesses and our residents are heard. So that's the first thing and the second thing if you could briefly
describe just tell us about one of the questions we've had in the past was about 46 mile Pleasant A and the speeding. So, and our police department has done a a a very good job on uh addressing that issue since our last meeting. So, I'd like the captain to just briefly speak about that.
>> Get in. Okay. So this is the report here from Mount Pleasant Avenue eastbound. In three days there was 27,68 cars average of 6,700 vehicles
day in the three. The average speed was 34.9. The 85th percentile was 40. So the speed limit there was 35 down here between 280. Is it 40? Sorry. Sorry. 40 between 280 and Pleasant
Valley Way. >> So >> from to Main Street, right? >> To Main Street to 280. >> Yeah. 280. >> It's 40. >> It's 40 miles. >> The numbers fall right in line with where they should be because the 85th percentile is usually a plus or minus 5 miles an hour, right? See
>> 85th. >> So yes. >> So So can you lower the speed limit? Talk to the county about lowering the speed limit if the speed >> if you think Yeah, we we did conduct five radar details there. We did issue two summones. >> That's the last meeting. That's the
last. >> Yeah. In the past two weeks, all this data was the last two weeks. The radar details were set up 5 days out of the the 11 days or 10 days. So basically every other day since the last meeting, our officers have been out there. They're addressing the concerns and they
and this is the raw data they have and it's here for your your review. >> Do you have any previous data that indic would indicate a change in the speed limit over time? >> I don't think we've ever done anything there. >> Okay. >> Counciloman, >> just just point. Thank you, Council
President. So yeah, 40 mph seems a little fast for an incline coming to a stop sign. And then plus we have the pedestrian or the drive the uh in front of our driveway where you have to watch. So if they're coming speeding down, >> if we could lower that at all, the
county let us lower it. Mr. Pis, >> we talked to the county with >> Yeah. If we can lower it, you know, I I think that's going to help the situation because they are following the speed limit, but the speed limit's a little higher. Absolutely. >> That's all. Thank you, Council President.
>> Councilwoman, >> we have an ordinance currently on the books uh preventing commercial vehicles from parking on the residential streets and I know that is a real problem in the downtown area. How is your department monitoring that? And h have you found
found that this is a problem? >> Yeah, it's been a problem ongoing for many many years. Um, so they're between 9:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. they are not allowed to park there unless they have work going on. So the usually it's the midnight shift that handles that and they do issue a good a good amount of
tickets on it. So it's just they just keep keep when we get complaints we address them in those areas. They just keep moving them around. >> What about what about commercial vehicles that are on the street during the day and not moving? >> You're allowed to park them. You can't park between 9:00 p.m. and 7 a.m.
>> Okay. Unless they're there for more than a 48 hours and they would be abandoned, we've been told. >> Okay. >> Thank you everybody and thank you Captain Matulo. I was going to say I'm sure most of the people here were were here because of you and your
presentation. >> Absolutely. >> And I'm I'm just amazed. But uh state senator and former mayor McKeon has arrived and so we need to get to the main event. And without further ado,
>> my family come up >> somewhere. Senator Holder is there with the oak. >> Oh, got it. I was coming to say what I'm told. the folder. >> Hammy, I'm surprised there's anyone in your family who is shy and is not up
here already. What What's up with that? >> Oh, okay. Okay. No idea. >> I have really no idea. >> I'm happy to be your fan today. >> Well, I family. >> Exactly. >> Senator, I I know you haven't given too
many of these oaths of office. So, if you want to review the verbiage. >> Thank you, Council. >> And then only taken it a couple of times in your career. >> I uh And if I can indulge, council president, please. Happy uh Thanksgiving to all of you personally and your
families and to our whole community. It always makes me feel uh so warm and happy when I'm in town hall in West Arch. Brings back a lot of great feelings. Thank you for all for your service. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Is there a difference between great feelings and great memories?
>> Yeah. What the whatever the great memories here's the great news for you guys. The vicissitudes you forget about. It's the uh all the good things that you'll remember. So, Yeah. >> Where is everybody? >> I got kicked out of the room. >> So, this is Pastor Adams for those of
you all who do not know, close and dear friend and confidant. And this is Carla Malloy, my business consultant, friend, partner um for over 20 years. So, we are going to have them stand in as members of my family.
>> Can you see us? Please. Thank you. >> This is my sora sister. >> My next door neighbor. >> You're in trouble now. >> She She doesn't tell people that.
>> All right. So, uh, pastor, you'll hold the Bible and and if, uh, great friends and surrogate family can get closer. Can are you good shape to take a picture? Uh, Miss Williams, if you raise your, uh,
right hand and please uh, I'm speak. I'll go and repeat after me. >> Very loudly, please. >> I will. Uh, I, Tammy Williams, >> I, Tammy Williams, >> do solemnly swear >> do solemnly swear >> that I will support the Constitution
>> that I will support the Constitution >> of the United States >> of the United States >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey >> and the Constitution of the State of New Jersey. I promise I will bear true faith >> I promise I will bear true faith >> and allegiance to the same
>> and allegiance to the same >> and to the governments established >> and to the governments established >> in the United States >> in the United States >> and in this state >> and in this state >> under the authority of the people >> under the authority of the people >> I do further solemnly swear >> I do further solemnly swear
>> that I will faithfully >> that I will faithfully >> impartially >> impartially >> and justly perform >> and justly perform >> all the duties duties >> all the duties >> of the office of councilwoman >> of the office of councilwoman >> to the best of my ability >> to the best of my ability >> so help me God
>> so help me God >> congratulations what an honor it was to swear you in >> any other Oh, please. >> Oh, gosh. Oh, for I know the plans I have for you. Plans to prosper you and not to harm
you. Plans to give you hope and a future. Tonight feels like part of that promise unfolding. I am grateful for every person in the room and those on Zoom and for the countless hands and
hearts that helped carry me to this moment. Thank you all so much. Standing here tonight after being officially sworn in once the election results were certified last Tuesday fills me with
gratitude, humility, and a renewed purpose. Thank you, Senator McKon, for taking the time to support me in this endeavor. As our former mayor, assemblyman, and state senator, you
always show up for West Orange. This community has entrusted me once again to serve and I do not take that responsibility lightly. I show up not as someone claiming perfection but as
someone whose intentions are sincere and whose commitment remains steady. I am here because I believe in what we can accomplish when we move with purpose, when we lead with integrity, and when we
choose each other even in challenging moments. Over these last months, we have been tested, stretched, and strengthened as a town. And all of you have reminded me that when people believe in a shared
agenda, when we roll up our sleeves, when we trust in the power of community, we can move mountains. To my team, your determination, strategy, and heart fueled this campaign. To the residents
who showed up, voted, asked hard questions, and demanded better from all of us, I thank you. You make this work meaningful. And to my family and friends who stood by me through the long days,
the longer nights, and everything in between, I am grateful beyond words. I also want to take a moment to speak directly to my colleagues. We may not always agree, but we share one responsibility
that rises above our differences. Each of us represents each resident of West Orange. every voice, every neighborhood, every family. And our town
is b best served when we work together, communicate honestly, and lead with the understanding that collaboration is not optional. It's essential. I promise to lead with transparency,
compassion, and integrity. to listen before I act, to uplift voices that often go unheard, to protect the values that we share and hold dear, and to help
West Orange reset and re-imagine a future worthy of every person who calls this township home. Tonight, it's not about me. It's about us recommitting to the promise of
community. I'm honored to serve you. I'm ready to keep working and I'm excited for where West Orange is going. Thank you, West Orange. Let's move forward together. Thank you.
So, thank you, Councilwoman, and welcome. >> Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. >> Well said. Well said. Okay, that officially ends our conference agenda, and it's now time for me to ignore Madame Clerk.
open comment to come. >> Yes. Yes. We we do not allow comments from the audience. Please just state your case very quickly so we can move on. >> Um two minutes and then and then you can come up. You'll call for
>> Yeah. Yeah. public comment. You can come up and do that. You'll have five minutes. You won't even need to use two. So please just hold tight for Yes. So thank you uh madame clerk. >> Yes.
>> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the West Orange, I'm sorry, the township clerk's
office on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16, 2025. Councilwoman Castalino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. Councilwoman Williams, >> present. >> Council President Koviaak, >> present.
>> Mayor McCartney. >> Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for
all. >> The council is now in their public meeting. >> So this is the spot in our public agenda where I first ignore Madame Clerk and then I ignore Mr. Fagan, but I'm not going to do that tonight. Uh, Mr. Fagan,
please take it away. >> Thank you very much, Council President. Um, before I start tonight, I just want to point out one thing. Um, as as you may know, we have this TV screen here, and that's for uh closed captioning to solve a problem in council chambers
here. Uh, it solved one problem, but it kind of created another. And behind that, hidden from view, is a beautiful portrait of former President Barack Obama. And that portrait was done by uh West Orange resident Michael Roach. And
he's here in the audience tonight. And I want to acknowledge Michael and hopefully soon we will have the sound system squared away and once again we'll be able to see his beautiful work of art. Um, I'd like to extend congratulations to the West Orange boys
soccer team for winning the uh league soccer championship. Uh, they worked very hard and I think I read some place the score in the final was five to zero. Congratulations to them. Um
the uh deadline for uh the grace period has been extended to December 22nd, 2025, or I should say, yes, extended to December 22nd. I'm not going to complicate this matter. This information is on our website. I know there's been a lot of confusion and frustration over
this, but you can look on our website and hopefully it will clear it up for you. Uh as Mr. Moraldo mentioned or someone mentioned before on uh December 2nd in council chambers here there is the uh parking study question and answer and it should be pointed out I believe
councilwoman Castelino pointed it out that it doesn't start at a Pacific time. It's run from 4 to 8 but you can come in and you can interact any time with the officials here ask any questions during that time period. So, if you can't get
here precisely at 4, but can come in through those hours. Hopefully, you can get your questions answered. Um, Thursday, December 4th, Mayor McCartney's open office hours. No appointment is necessary. Uh, I don't see Mr. Plesi here, so I'm going to
mention about the holiday lights. This is always a very popular event here in West Orange at Turtleback Zoo, and this is on our website, so you can check the times and the dates. Uh but the kids and
adults love this. Um as mentioned at the uh top of the meeting, uh West Arms Municipal offices are closed on Thursday and Friday. Uh there's no garbage recycling on Thursday. No Jity service Thursday and Friday. Regular garbage
recycling schedule on Friday. And if I confuse you, this information is on our website. You can check it out further. And certainly on behalf of the town council, uh, Mayor McCartney and the town council like to wish everyone a happy Thanksgiving. Uh, the food drive, uh, the townwide
food drive, uh, which has been taking place at West Orange Fire Department headquarters is still ongoing. Uh, it has been very successful. And um just in council chambers uh uh earlier this week
uh a donation was uh made by the AFSCME Union uh to Tony's Kitchen um in Montlair. And uh this is basically as a result of the community food drive set up at West Orange Fire Headquarters. And
this coincided with the thank you note that was received by Mayor McCartney. And it's also worth pointing out that uh special uh note and thanks to the township's uh search team, community emergency response team volunteers. They have been delivering food to homebound
residents since the onset of COVID, which is now a few years behind us. Uh on December 17th, there will be a mobile manog screening at the Ginny Dunle Pool. on December 17th, 9 to 2 pm. This
information is on our website as was mentioned uh during uh antiatic cancer. Early detection with this and I uh dare to say any cancer is important. So please check out the uh information on our website and um uh don't think that
it can't happen to you. So please sign up and uh do your proper screenings. Uh we are looking uh West Orange Police Department is looking for school crossing guards. Uh for more information you can call 973-3254050. Uh this information just came in late
today. It's not currently on our website but it will be. Uh but keep that in mind. You can contact the um Kate Davenport and uh she can uh help you. Uh but as I say, this information will be on our website, but put it on your radar, so to speak, that we are uh
hiring school crossing guards. There is a the annual Township Manora lighting is coming up December 15th uh from 3:45 to 4:45 and it happens right here uh each year at Town Hall 66 Main Street. Also on the website, there's uh weekly
updates for the Jity schedule. Uh each week, it seems presents some challenges. So, please check this on our website for all the latest updates and uh a holiday open house Saturday, December 6th. Uh it's basically an all day event from 9
to 3 p.m. It starts with the character breakfast at Washington School Cafeteria and it ends with the Christmas tree lighting here in front of town hall. Uh this information is on the downtown West Orange Alliance uh web uh website,
Facebook page will be on West Orange as well. So, uh, it's that time of year. Uh, the Christmas season, Hanukkah season is manura season, lighting season is upon us. Uh, I'm sure I misstated something there, but you get my point.
Um, so please check this out and, uh, put it on your calendar. Also, um, I mentioned this at last meeting, Essis County 2026 one-year action plan applications. Uh the uh application deadline is December 29th, but this
information is on our website. And I want to give a quick shout out to West Orange Arts Council. They are seeking volunteers. They are important part of our community. Uh and you can find out info at wo arts.org if you uh uh have the time and are willing to volunteer
for a worthy cause. As was mentioned, this is Movember. It's coming to a close and it's basically focusing on men's health. And finally, uh I found this on Facebook and I thought that this was definitely worth mentioning. The Kowanas Club uh which uh helps kids uh they're
looking to start a uh a chapter here in West Orange. They are a national organization, a state organization, and they're having an organizational meeting on Thursday, December 4th at the West Orange uh Public Library, 6:30 p.m. So, if you want to find out more
information, uh please come uh check that out. Uh as I say, uh it's akin to Rotary International and Lions uh clubs. uh they they do very good work and uh they certainly could do uh use your support and they would make a great
difference here in the community. Uh as I mentioned, Mr. Plesi is not here this evening, but you can contact him at this email address and this phone number if you have any um uh any questions about anything uh from the county. Uh thank you uh council president. Thank you for
indulging me. And um this uh this concludes my report for this evening. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan, in preparation for public comment, which is on the agenda to start now, I want to confirm that we are all on the same page on how public comment is regulated as per our
ordinance. We're going to try a slightly different process for public comment tonight. Instead of me fumbling around with trying to pick speakers, we're going to let you self- select by coming to the front row of benches here in the middle
down the aisle and waiting in line to be recognized by the chair. Once you're recognized by the chair, you come to the podium on my right and speak for up to five minutes. Please be concise to speed up the process and do not feel obligated
to use the entire five minutes. If what you can say can be done in two minutes, please do so. Uh we tend to have very lengthy meetings. So any efficiencies would be greatly appreciated. Please everyone speak directly into the
microphone and as loudly as you feel comfortable. After everyone has commented, we on the deis may respond. Our ordinance for public comment requires the speaker to first state their name and address. Our ordinance requires conduct by public comment
speakers who quote shall at no time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair may or shall excuse me shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule. End quote. Any person who shall
disturb the peace of the township council, make offensive or abusive remarks, or conduct himself or herself in a boisterous manner while addressing the council shall be forth with barred by the presiding officer from further audience before the council, except that if the speaker shall submit to proper
order under these rules, permission for him or her to continue may be granted by a majority vote of the council. Town council is a place to discuss our differences and often to find compromise to make West Orange an even better place to live. So I urge all of us to treat
everyone here as they would like to be treated. You can make your point without cursing or insulting anyone. And I and my police backup uh will enforce our audience. So uh please come forward.
First speaker, thank you for your patience. Thank you and good evening to you. Um, my name is Adrianne Harrison Surgeon. I'm a doctor of education and I
represent the New Jersey Alternative Education Association. >> Pardon me for interrupting you. Just you've given your name. That's great, but that's only half. If you could give an address, that would be great. Just for our minutes. Thank you. Our address is 748 Irving Terrace, Orange, New
Jersey. Okay. So, I'm here to offer commendations of excellence presented to Councilwoman Tammy Williams
in recognition of your outstanding leadership, dedicated community service, and your successful return to the West Orange City Council through the 2025
special election. with deep appreciation for her unwavering advocacy in suicide prevention through the West Starin Stop Suicide
Advocacy Coalition Foundation. Your commitment to service, equity, and the well-being of our communities
exemplify the highest ideals of public leadership. This commendation is presented on Monday, November 24th, 2025
on behalf of the New Jersey Alternative Education Association. Congratulations. >> Thank you. Please. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Please.
Good evening everyone. My name is Ria Randolph um from 1110 Road, West Orange, New Jersey. >> 11 what? I'm sorry. >> Tenny. Thank you. >> I have the honor of serving as teen legislative chair for the Essex Hudson chapter of Jack and Jill of America Incorporated and I'm also a proud white
star and resident. On behalf of our chapter, it is truly a privilege to stand here tonight as we celebrate this moment and join together for the swearing in of Councilwoman Tammy Williams. Representation matters deeply. As teens, we are constantly looking for
examples of leadership, integrity, and community commitment. Councilwoman Williams has been exactly that for us. She shows up for our chapter, she supports our initiatives, and she always makes space for young people to be seen, heard, and valued. Watching her advocate
for our community, and watching her lead with strength and purpose gives us something real to aspire to. She reminds us that public service isn't just about holding a title. It's about uplifting people, building opportunity, and creating a pathway for the next
generation. Councilwoman Williams, thank you for being a role model we can look up to. Thank you for showing us what is possible. And thank you for proving that when we move forward together, we will all rise. So, congratulations, and we're proud to stand here with you tonight. Thank you.
least. >> Hi, uh Mosha Glick. Uh I live in the Pleasantdale section. I prefer not to give my home address. I've been the subject of threats in the past, so I'm a West Orange resident. Um so, first of all, Councilwoman, congratulations on uh on your on your election win. Um I'm
here to discuss uh the um agenda item. I got here a little bit late. The agenda item about Matthew Fuel's uh contract. I'm not sure if that was was on the agenda and I saw it on the website. So, specifically about that, uh, good evening, council members. Most of you know who I am. Um, uh, my name is, uh,
Dr. Mosher Glick. I'm a resident of West Orange and an active member of our local Jewish community. I'm speaking tonight, um, specifically about, um, police officer Matthew Fiola's contract. Um he you you all know this since you've been copied. He's the subject of a uh serious
police um misconduct uh allegations. Um those alleg those uh that complaint was filed on October 22nd uh of this year regarding his handling of the violent and unpermitted protest at Congregation Orura on November 13th, 2024. As you
also know, the US Department of Justice uh recent face act civil complaint underscoring the severity of this incident. Um they have not ruled out criminal charges as well. Uh and I I urge the council to table or reject uh this contract renewal until a full
transparent investigation resolves these allegations. Prioritizing accountability over expedity is essential to rebuilding the trust in our police department. Uh the mayor, as many of you are aware, put out a statement uh and I want to make
sure that things are very clear. Uh the Jewish community, I'm not authorized to speak on behalf of the Jewish community. I'm very involved, as you know, with the Jewish community. She put out a statement uh somehow that you the Jewish community is not supporting the police department. That is 100% uh not true. The Jewish community, strong support for
the West Orange Police Department, but bad actors tarnish all of us. Our Jewish community, our Jewish community stands firmly behind the West Orange Police Department. Grateful for their ongoing partnership that enhances our safety, our safety. We've expressed this through thank you campaigns, collaborative
events, recognizing the dedication of the vast majority of officers who protect us among among historic rising anti-semitism. Yet, unchecked bad actors like police like Mr. Fiola, there are additional five additional officers that
have um in uh in um complaints uh internal affairs complaints. Uh West Orange is currently in violation. The West Orange Police Department has not investigated these complaints. They are in violation of the Attorney General's
manual from 2022. Uh which these these are supposed to have been completed within 45 days. Some of these complaints are are bordering on 180 days. My attorneys as well as myself have reached out for um the Mr. Tran as well as Mr.
Summerrera. Uh we've had no response thus far and this uh matter is going to continue to escalate. I just wanted to make sure I know the council is aware of it. I just wanted to make sure that this gets on public record, but what part of my reason for being here tonight is really that that statement that came out
is absolutely false. the the Jewish community supports the West Orange Police Department, but if we allow bad actors to uh to to uh go unchecked, it tarnishes the reputation of the police department, makes us unsafe. I'm sure you guys saw the the events that
happened in Livingston, our township next door. They handled their event. There was a very similar type of event. The Livingston Police Department acted appropriately. They separated they separated the anti-Israel agitators from the Jews looking to attend a an event at a synagogue. Six of the anti-Israel
agitators were arrested. And if you contrast that with what happened in West Orange, there's tons of publicly available video. I've sent it to most of you guys. You guys have all seen this. So, I think it's a real slap in the face to our community to to actually um push
through a contract for Deputy Fiola when he's under serious internal affairs investigations. We have attempted to meet with West Orange Internal Affairs. We have been stonewalled multiple times and it's unfortunate. I'm I'm I love West Orange. I'm a long-term resident of West Orange. I've personally
participated in a number of police thank you events. They know who I am. Uh and to for us to be treated in this manner, but to add insult to injury, to somehow make a statement that we don't support the police is disingenuous. It's, you know, I I can't think of a better word than disgusting. Um and you know, I just
wanted to state my outrage. I hope the new township attorney I'm not sure is that are you the new township attorney? >> I'm the assistant. >> Okay. I hope the new I've reached out to him several times. I reached out to Mr. Tran. We have quoted the laws for him. It's clear as day. So I implore the
council not to move forward on that contract. I implore the council to push the West Orange Police Department to do what they're supposed to do before this thing gets elevated on the state level as well as on the federal level. I thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Dr. Blake. Please
Joy brunette plot place and I am back again. I checked my emails and I started this fight this concern in 2009 and it is now 2025. It is amazing
how much energy has arisen against us being treated as the rest of the neighborhood has been treated. Suddenly now we got the police and they and and the police are against us having permits because it's too hard
to enforce. Well, apparently they en enforce things very well cuz I have $1,100 in tickets in the last year to prove that they seem to be doing quite well with enforcing not against Satan Hall, but against the residents who are already paying taxes. I now pay a
parking tax to park in my own neighborhood. I just want to be clear and I need to say this because >> Michelle, every time I'm here, you have another reason. >> Excuse Miss Bernett. Yes. Our ordinance requires that you direct your comments
to the chair and not to any individual. >> Okay. Please. >> Every time I'm here, >> Miss Castelino makes statements that for reasons why we should not we that we need one-way streets. I would like people to stop telling us what we need
in our own neighborhood because we are here every day and I know what I need. I do not have I want to be clear do not have any problems parking in my neighborhood in the summer months. Okay. So, the parking issue is when Satan Hall
is present. I don't need 20 parking spots on my street because in the last meeting it was stated, well, you'll see when you see the presentation that you'll get more more spots on your street. The condescending tone is not it
it's insulting. It's insulting the the way that we are spoken to as if we are not adults. We are adults, taxpaying citizens. I am a master's degree holder. I can read the parking study and I can see that we are allowed more spots. I
don't need more spots when Satan Hall is not there. I do not need more spots. What I need is to have my neighborhood be treated just as the people above us. And let me just also state it is not just getting rid of parking permits on
Oakidge and Glenn. The entire neighborhood from up the street from Rollingston all the way to Gregory has been shut down for parking for seat and hall students. Please let me share with you that they are not all permit parked, but Oakidge and Glenn Avenue have permit
parking. Mitchell from Gregory uh from Gregory down to Oakidge has a sign that reads as follow. It was quite interesting. No parking from 8 to 10 September 1st to June 15th excluding holidays. And then it says, "But so
seven, zone 7 permits are accepted on a street that doesn't even have permit parking." Then on Hillside has the same sign that says no parking, but zone 7 permits are accepted on Hillside as well, but they don't have permit
parking. Hillside. Um then we go to Brook Drive, Colony Drive East, Colony Drive West, and Elliot all have signs that say no parking from 8 to 10 on school days, which means that Satan Hall
cannot park from Rollinsson from up from uh Glenn all the way up to Gregory. So removing permits on Oakidge and Glenn will not help us because then they still are not allowed to park all over the entire neighborhood. That neighborhood
is shut down where you've they have shut down over 10 blocks and then the people are the kids are forced to park on five or six. So giving us one-way streets, we don't want them. I don't want to have to. It is such an inconvenience already
to have to go down to the end of Valley where valley then turns into a one-way street and you already have traffic patterns that are a problem. Those one-way streets, my understanding that oneway street was done without the consultation of residents. Please stop
telling us what we need. All of this stonewalling reminds me of stories that my parents and my grandparents told me as they grew up in the south when when they tried to go vote that it would be, "No, you can't vote. You you got to do this questionnaire. Oh, well, you passed
the questionnaire, now you got to do this." Mr. Blandon is coming up who was a black history teacher at my high school. He might be able to tell you a little bit more about what happens. The this there are some parallels here that are shameful. It is shameful that in 2025
this town is trying to prevent uh people of a lower so socioeconomic uh class from having the same rights and privileges as the people who have a higher uh a higher tax bracket than they do. People that are predominantly black
and brown in my neighborhood are being told we can't have what everyone else has. And this is shameful. You ought to give us the permits and you ought to back off on these one-way streets because we don't want them. Stop telling us. But he used some of my time. Stop telling us what we can and what we can't
have. >> Yeah. Okay. >> That is not okay. >> Miss Bernett. Thank you, Miss Bernett. Would you do us the council a favor and send those pictures that you were citing if you actually had pictures? >> You mean the pictures of the signs? We actually wrote them down, but I can go take you pictures. >> Okay. I don't want you to go out of your
way, but that's that's very helpful. street. >> Take some pictures when the sun is on all those streets. I can certainly take you pictures. >> Thank you. >> Would you like pictures or video? >> And also make can you can you list all of the streets that have permit parking
or permit parking signs? >> Yes. The ones that you just mentioned? >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Blandon, please. Good evening everyone. John Blandon, Faro Road.
First, I just want to say Councilwoman Tammy Williams, welcome back. And speaking on behalf of my family, they told me to ask you to govern in a manner and set the example that you
would like to see in others and lead. And so that's what we're looking forward to you doing to lead and welcome back again and we're looking forward to working with you as one of our council members. Blessings to you. >> Thank you.
>> I want to start this evening by saying each time we come in these council chambers for a formal meeting asked to stand and salute the flag. And
near the end we say, "Lord have mercy. Help me." One nation under God. One nation under God. One nation under God. And I want to say to each one of you this evening, uh,
Councilwoman Williams read from a most popular book that's read in the world. and she read a little something from it, basic instructions before leaving earth. And she read a little passage tonight from that book. Thank you, my man
Isaiah. And I want to read something to all of you uh this evening, and it's what we all should be exemplifying in this community, especially our council as an example, and the rest of you in the administration as well.
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clinging symbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and can
fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all my possessions to the poor and give over my body to
hardship, that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud. It
does not dishonor others. It's not self-seeking. It's not easily angered. It keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but bejoes with truth. It always protects,
always trusts, always hopes, always preserves. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease. Where there are tongues, they will be stilled. Where there is knowledge, it
will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesize in part. But when completeness come, part will disappear. When I was a child, I talked like a child. I thought like a child. I
reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I put those childish things behind me. For now, we see only a reflection as in a mirror. Then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part that I shall know fully, even am I am
fully known. And now these three three things remain. Faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these things, as the man named Jesus said, is love. Love your neighbor as
yourself. That's the greatest commandment. God bless you all. Have a lovely Thanksgiving, and I hope you're spending time with people you enjoy being with. Eat a lot, but we expect you back here at the next council meeting. Blessings. >> Thanks, John. Thank you.
My name is Stephen Johnston and I live at 49 Sheridan Avenue. I'm here to talk about my work with the West Orange Human Relations Commission as an appointed commissioner. As of the November election of Council Member Williams, I'm stepping down for my position and not
seeking reappoint. For context, according to the 2020 US Census, just under 13% of the United States is African-American. Just over 13% of New Jersey is African-American. However, the West
Orange population is 26.3% African-American, double the representation in this town compared to New Jersey and the country. Our neighbors have presented percentages that are much higher, over 70%. Despite this, the West Orange police force is
only 10% African-American with no African-American leadership, a decrease from prior years. Just 10% of the police force is female. There's no listed non-binary or LGBTQ police officers. Despite the good work of officer Karen
Mango, in February 2022, the West Orange Police Force issued a report called quote bias-based policing annual analysis end quote which has not been updated in 3 years. 36% of motor vehicle stops were of African-Americans in West
Orange. White motor vehicle stops were 33%. Four field interviews took place with three for African-Americans and one for Hispanic individual. No white individuals were subject to a field interview. A whopping 65%
of all arrests 65% of all arrests in West Orange were of African-Ameans. On page 11 of the 2022 report, the author asserts that the most amount of crime in West Orange occurs in the most racially diverse part of the township.
As council member Williams knows, in response to the George Floyd murder, police chief James Abbott agreed to work with the HRC. This can be found in the prior HRC annual reports she authored. When I brought these issues to the HRC and Police Chief James Abbott in January
2025, he responded with the following email in part. quote, "I am writing to you in regard to Commissioner Johnston's accusations and demands for the HRC to self-declare that they are going to analyze, scrutinize, and make recommendations for improvements within
the West Orange PD is inconsistent with your mission and more importantly runs a foul of the law." Any such attempt to do so will be immediately forwarded to the Essex County Prosecutor's Office and the New Jersey State Bar. I have instructed my staff not to deal with Commissioner
Johnston or any individual commissioners. If the HRC has any topics of discussion for the WOPD, they need to come directly from you as the chair to me as the chief. I will not be responding to any retort to this missive from any commissioner in including Commissioner Johnston other than you."
End quote. Not only is this not true, a gross misconduct, it violates the police code of conduct. I have filed a complaint with the Essex County Prosecutor's Office, which is ongoing. The township conducted an investigation through an outside
attorney, Ellen Okonnell, who submitted a report. She told me at the time of my statement that that report would be provided to me when it was submitted. It was not. I've requested the report from the mayor. It has not been provided and she's not responded to my email. I've submitted an Oprah request and that has
not been responded to as of yet. this council before giving police chief Abbott $800,000 before sub approving any leadership for this police department should create a
civilian oversight committee to o review the police. This commission, this council should review the police. This is blatant racist misconduct by police chief James Abbott. The statistics show that there is racist
conduct within our police. That's not to even address the controllers reports about honor card violations in the police in the state and the town spending money on street cop training which promoted violence and illegal
tactics by the police. This town spent money on that. According to the New Jersey controller, the West Orange Police com the West Orange Human Relations Commission needs help from the attorney of the town to go over Oprah, the public re uh records act, Robert's
rules of order, and the bylaws held by this council, approved by this council. Those things aren't being followed. If you don't act, the township will fail to address growing fear, tension, and pain in the community. I act that you ask that you address the
police chief's vile misconduct. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Johnson. >> Good evening, Deborah Mapson, West Orange. Um, so first congratulations and welcome to the new town attorneys. I've never
had a chance to to do that. Um, and Smallville knows I absolutely love him. Um, I wanted to stay back to congratulate Councilwoman Tammy Williams on her
reelection. Right. And admittedly, or I need to admit this, when she first sat on the council, I was not a supporter. Um, I was listening to the noise and in the chatter and you did two things that had
gotten my attention, right? So, I decided to quiet the noise in my head and all the chatter and watch you. And the first thing I thought is, wow, I've been missing out and I've been supporting you ever since. And and I
don't take a minute of it back. Enjoyed working your campaign. I am a stout supporter. looking forward to you continuing to do great things. I encourage you listen, the haters are going to come. All right? The naysayers
are going to come, right? But you stay and stand steadfast and do what you do and you will prevail every single time. I've supported Castle, who I love. I've supported Scarper, who I love, and my council
president, who I love. Okay? So, you hang tight and and we are here for you. Council president, I'd like to address something through your chair that I've been paying attention to. Council colleagues need to be respectful of one
another. If there are any issues um or something that they don't agree with as a body, that should be discussed in close session. Um however you choose to discuss it, but it should not be discussed out here on
taxpayers time. Okay. I've been paying attention to some attacks on uh Council President Tammy Williams, right? And I'm not going to stand for it. And there's a whole lot of us that are not going to stand for it if
it continues. So, I'm requesting through your chair, council president, that you please have conversations with your council colleagues. All right? She is not she's sitting up here to do the work of the people in West Orange. She's not
sitting up here to be attacked by any one council member. Okay? So, I would appreciate it if you could do that. Listen, good evening to you all. Um, happy Thanksgiving to you. And again, congratulations. We're here. We got you.
God bless everyone. >> Please, Mr. Council President, if I could just interrupt for one second. U, >> yes, please. >> Compliments are equally as uh discouraged as criticism uh in uh in this setting.
And and and just to follow up on that again, we're trying to do the town's business so as as much as we can uh keep on point and uh uh uh I would greatly appreciate it. So please go ahead. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Danielle Thomas. Um on behalf of the
NAACP Oranges and Maplewood branch, uh PO Box 1127, East Orange, New Jersey 07019. Um, I stand uh to offer my congratulations to Councilwoman Williams who has acted as our prior to her uh
her campaign acted as our housing chair uh for our branch and I just want to congratulate her. Uh we are proud of you. Um and I stand here again as the president. So uh it sounds like we we
have some work to do uh with the NAACP. So, I would like to >> Excuse me just a second. I I I want to apologize for interrupting you. I just want to make it clear that we do not allow and our ordinance does not allow people calling out from the audience.
Again, if you want to speak or if you want to clap, I'm happy for you to do that. Just please go outside. When you do that in here, it's disrespectful to the speaker and to everyone else here who is who is here to uh hear the towns. I apologize. Please reset the clock cuz
>> No, no problem. I It won't be much longer. Uh just, you know, it's always >> nice to come in person to these meetings um and to hear directly from residents. Uh so again, my name is Danielle Thomas. I'm with the NAACP Oranges in Maplewood. I hope that if you are not a member, you
would look us up and become one. Uh we don't solicit, we don't run to fights, but we are always uh here if you need some support. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh Doug Adams, 9 West over Terrace. Um uh you you'll have to give me some heads
up um when there is some official thing that's coming my way. I'm not a tie sport jacket standing in front of folk with the Bible swearing in person on a regular basis. for all those that saw
that. Um there's a couple things I wanted to come out to do tonight. One, I wanted to represent um the West Orange Mountaineers. We have uh in our community celebrated several championships. The soccer team won the
state championship. The uh boys football team took second in the uh sectional uh championship game. and our band and cheerleading team. They just all doing a wonderful job. And so just like to
celebrate the kids and the school and the program for all that they're doing. Um, and since I was here, many of you don't know, but this is game week. And um, from around the country and around
the world, we all understand uh, the greatest rivalry in the history of the sport, the University of Michigan Wolverines. And for any Buckeye fans, it's great to be a Michigan Wolverine. Um, uh, it's it's the holiday and so we
want to, uh, be thankful. I want to really thank everybody um for their service. I want to thank um I'm going to talk to the council president so I don't get in trouble. Uh I want to uh council president. I want to thank um uh the new
council uh person uh Councilwoman Williams for having the diligence and the tenacity to run after uh the previous election and and um everybody's been quoting ancient texts, so I'll just
say the race isn't given to the swift, neither to the strong, but they that endure to the end. Um, and so I I appreciate that. I appreciate you, Council President, for um standing on business uh with your colleagues and
their discomfort and to some degree disdain uh for um Councilwoman Williams return to the DES. Um, and I think that it's important for in a community where all of our council people run at large, they
are really supposed to be representing the whole community. Um, but I understand that the things that are supposed to be aren't always the things that are. And so there's a large section of the West Orange community, the young man actually gave numbers, he gave
statistics, um but there's a large portion of the West Orange community um that represents a wide range of diversity that is actually happy and celebrating the fact that she's on the council because she got elected just like
everybody else on the council. And so just understand in a small town nothing is as secret as we think it is. And so all of those backoor conversations and movement maneuvering and shifting and all that stuff, it just
comes out. So just be mindful um that everybody is connected to somebody, right? Everybody has mom, dad, kids, sister, brothers, everybody has friends. And when it comes to politics, everybody has supporters. And so I just would want
to encourage you to be mindful of that. Um I also would like to just say that I was very disappointed that um uh and council president, you know me, uh in this way. Um I I'm pretty much 100 about
whatever I'm 100 about. I'm where I'm at. And I do believe that you give people the benefit of the doubt and you also give people the opportunity to show themselves as good people even when they may be on the other side of a particular
issue. And so I was a little bit disappointed when I saw um that uh one of the uh council persons that was strongly against uh snowblowers and and leaves and all of that kind of stuff. um
having um landscapers work in their yard with gas powered snowblowers. That was a little bit um um disappointing for me. And I just want to finish with this because um uh I do think that integrity
has to do with a person's pursuit to be right uh or to understand truth. And so, uh, one of your council colleagues, um, council councilwoman Scarpa, uh, council president, uh, in the last
meeting indicated that I had some of my facts incorrect. And so I would simply ask since you put that on the record, if you would um please um indicate to me, email or put it on the record what facts I had wrong because I would love to be
able to correct them um because I would not want to share anything that someone would consider to be false. Thank you. >> Thank you, pastor. Please But
hi everyone. Uh Lesie, West Sussex Highlands. Um I'm very much new to the neighborhood, Union County, now coming into Essis County. Uh so I did receive a letter in the mail of a
believe a 250 apartment building that would be proposed in my backyard. Um, so apologies for my appearance. I did have come out of work to be here. I wasn't able to come into the last meeting. I just want to voice my opinion
that this is not I do not want this in my backyard. Um, for multiple reasons. A uh flooding. So the highlands is on a slope and with this new development
um destroying the forestry that we have there we depend on that to really it obviously absorbs a lot of the storm water. be the water quality. Um if we destroy those trees, we destroy
that forest uh runoff carrying pollutants, sediments, microlastics into the drinking supply. Third, the wildlife b
next pollution and finally traffic. Um, I work 12-hour shifts. Obviously, right now, I don't have much of a problem getting in and out of development, but with an additional 250 plus individuals coming in and out, there's no traffic light there, it would just end up being
a nightmare. Um, I just moved into the neighborhood. I don't want to have to move again. I'm pretty sure we all understand the pains of having to move. Um, so thank you for your time. Can you just state your name again? >> Lesie. >> Your last name.
>> Romero. >> Thank you. >> Right. Thank you. Thank you. >> Good evening, Lawrence Cohen, 20 Lincoln Avenue. I'd like to speak tonight on behalf of um some residents
that um they don't they don't pay any property tax >> and uh and they don't really take any uh they don't use any uh benefits from the town services. Uh but they are being um their
constitutional rights are being affected. Um it's it's in dign and it's in Crystal Lake. These are Canadian geese and they are residents. I don't think they uh they might they might have come from Canada so they're aliens but now they're
residents. They stay here. Uh Canadian goose population has gone down over the past three years in the northeast and town of West Orange has been trying to control the population uh by various methods. Uh, one was
severe a couple of years back, maybe three or four, which was killing them, gassing them. The next method they've continued to do is add the eggs, which means put some sort of substance on the eggs, go locate the eggs, and the eggs
don't hatch and then they want to have babies and that's controlling the population. Uh we only have a problem uh of homesteading of the geese really on a little island in Dnan Park and maybe some uh secluded areas in Crystal Lake.
And the the money the taxpayers money going for this is is pretty steep. I um it was about for addling the eggs. It's about 4,000. When they were killing the geese it was 10,000. And now I I think there's a proposal for
uh to continue the addling of the eggs. There's fourth $175 check if I'm not mistaken going toward um permits to do this um in the spring. And when they do it is it's during the molting season of the
geese and uh that's when the the geese are um uh the the the nests are are uh attacked by the uh these I guess people that have a fish and wildlife license that it's and and they uh they do this.
So, not only will it save the taxpayers money, but it will allow these geese that probably have uh maybe three to six golings, little babies, if they ever get uh to have a a family um on these on
this island. And the geese are territorial, so they're only going to allow like one couple. One couple will be there and and have a home. And and geese, they mate for life. So these this a husband and wife, they probably been trying to have a family for about
five, six years since the town has tried to stop them. And uh why don't we give them a chance? Wouldn't it be nice for the kids around the school to see uh little baby goings in in Dnan Pond? Uh it's right by the elementary school and
the high school. And it really won't over contribute to an over overpopulation because it'll only be just one one or two families. And I don't even know if there is a family in Crystal Lake. And I'm just trying to ask
uh the the administration to to squatchch this program and if it need be the council to um maybe even have an ordinance to say this is this is something we don't want to do. uh a lot a lot of towns around New Jersey have
stopped doing these sort of uh uh birth control programs because they've realized the geese geese population has gone down. I even spoke to some people around Dn Pond who had once complained to the health department here about the overpopulation of geese and the the
droppings in their driveway and and lawn and they said no it's okay. the last two years everything has really been very um very mild and and they enjoy they said they enjoy seeing the geese. Um that's basically it. And um as for the the
incident at the temple, I think we should also look at the Essex County prosecutors. They're the ones who are prosecuting the the victims and not the perpetrator. And I think instead of, you know, looking at our police, the I think the real injustice is the Essex County
prosecutor. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Cohen. Please. >> Hello. My name is Alicia Kraock. I'm a little bit nervous, that's why I don't really speak. Um, I live at Unlan Circle. Um the concern I have is that I
know that the um the county is doing the tra uh the lights at the zoo right now. Um one of the first couple days that it opened traffic is really bad. Um there's been times that I've been caught um in traffic and just going I live across the
street from St. Barnabas, so to speak. Um, and just to go maybe the half a mile down Northfield Avenue, it can take 20 to 30 minutes just to get past the zoo. So, I know that's more of a county issue in the sheriff's department. The
sheriff's department is there. I don't always see people um directing traffic. A a concern I also have is that if there's an emergency being so close to the hospital, I'm not sure what South Orange Avenue looks like, but Pleasant
Valley Way is backed up. Northfield Avenue on both sides is backed up. And um I'm sure that South Orange Avenue can also get backed up if traffic is that bad on Cherry Hill Lane. So that's it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Kratic.
Is there anyone who would like to speak at public comment? Please come on up as quickly as possible because otherwise I'm going to uh close public comment at 8:13. I appreciate all the comments
and appreciate you coming here to speak. >> Um just before the council responds, if I can just caution the council against making any comment on Dr. Glick's uh statement. Uh that is replete with uh off thereord issues that should not be discussed publicly by the council. Thank
you, Mr. Pastor. Uh, is there anybody among us who would like to respond? Councilwoman? >> Yeah, I could start. Let me start off with um with uh Miss Bernett and I know you're frustrated
and 2009 is ridiculous that this has not been solved yet. So, I I agree with you as far as the one-way streets. if that's just looking to give you 200 spots in the area. I know you don't need them, but you're not the only resident that
calls us. We have many others that don't come here, but do call. And so, again, to me, something has to get resolved for your sake. Not I'm with you. I I think you need something has to
be resolved. So what that answer is going to be hopefully our professionals are going to figure it out. It you're right 2009 it's it's ridiculous that we're still here in 2025 and it has it it it's not anything to do where you live and what area you live
in. I'm sorry but I you know we're not up here I'm not up here to protect the kids at Satan Hall. I am not what what do I have to gain like protecting kids from Satan Hall? So again that frustrates me. I don't appreciate those comments that you bring uh directed at
me constantly. So, I I had I don't have skin in the game, but I do want our residents to be able to enjoy and and pull up in the parking spot. I I live um down the hill myself
and when I had five vehicles at home when I had my three kids who lived at home at the time, we'd have to juggle parking spots all the time and it was very frustrating because we had five drivers in our home and I and my and I'm fortunate to have a driveway that fits
three cars, but that was two on the street and we juggled carts constantly and got tickets constantly. And I told my kids that's up to you to make sure you don't you you know you have to park in the right spot because it is frustrating. We're hoping to open up 200
parking spots in your area and I'm sorry that if I advocate for that because I think it's a good thing for all the residents of that area and our business owners. The parking permits I don't believe are going to be as helpful as you think they are. And other residents don't either. I
have a letter here. I've had a few letters from people that are worried about that. They don't want to permit parking and lose parking in front of their own household. So again, this has been a constant problem. Anyone with concerns December 2nd from 4 to 8 in
this chambers, please come and talk to our parking consultants. You could stay five minutes, you could stay four hours and ask as many questions as you want. But this is a big community problem that has to be solved and not everybody's going to be happy with with what the
results are. But as far as I'm concerned, I just want what I just want all of you to be able to park, go home and park. And I appreciate uh the zoning off uh director has been out there and she's been doing a great job trying you know since with these complaints and
trying to address the commercial vehicle issue because that is an issue for you know a lot of contractors in the area bring their commercial vehicles home. They park them in their driveway and park their cars out on the street. That's a no no folks. You're not
supposed to have commercial vehicles in your driveways. So, enforcement, enforcement, enforcement. It's not going to get fixed overnight. And and I'm sorry. I'm I'm embarrassed that since 2009, we haven't been able to solve this problem. And I've also personally I
talked to the prior school master and this school master up at Satan Hall. I don't understand why the kids aren't parking in their parking lot and getting shuttled. But as the officer said, I I mean, everybody's open to public uh uh spots. So, um we we have to fix it and
and that's plain and simple. But any case, hope we could we got to do that sooner than later. So, please come to the meeting. In regards to um I'm I'm going to make one statement about what was said about um about our chief and
the HRC uh two years ago. Uh Patricia West, who's who is a member on the HRC, uh came to me to help uh facilitate an award. Uh the HRC honored our police chief with the diversity and inclusion award from two years ago and um for all
of his assistance to the community on what he has done in regards to diversity and inclusion. And so I know folks get frustrated for their own personal interactions. Um I want to thank the chief. He is
retiring at the end of this month. I went to his uh retirement party last week which well over 300 people attended and uh I I appreciate all his years of service to this community for all that
he's done. uh when the um you know 2020 when things were tough here in this township, the chief was front and center with with passing policy, even policies that we, you know, we did have on the books, but but revisiting those policies
and making sure we had out in that June uh June evening or or July, I forget. It was hot hotter than anything that day. I remember being up here in front of town hall and we had about what 4,000 people
uh on on the front lawn here. It was over 100 degrees. People were passing out left and right. We have thank God one incident because the chief made sure that he brought in county representatives and he protected this community with a horrible time in our
community. and um he you know Essex County Mental Health Association given our officer's training and all that's been done there divert a a host of programs that were brought in not just by him but uh also I got to give credit
where credit dues as well with with Mr. Tran. So there are a lot of great programs um that were brought in through the years. chief started when he was 19 year old officer and uh I I wish him and his family well as he retires at the end
of this month. So after 45 years of service to this community uh I want to thank him and I also want to thank Mr. Fuel service as well. So um again I'm just going to leave it there. Um, in regards to the other resident that came
down from West Essex Highlands, I believe she she she had just departed uh left us, but um yeah, she please look up at the planning board notes and go to the planning board uh uh meetings to see what's going on there uh with that project. Um there's been a lot of
meetings and um if you haven't caught up on them, uh you need to do so. And um Alicia, thank you for coming down. Lights of the zoo. I've talked to Mr. Paglesi after the last meeting. U maybe Mr. Smaraldo if you could just touch
base with the county on the traffic with um um with the lights. I know they put extra officers on and they have to be really careful when the weather is nice cuz when the weather is particularly nice that zoo does because the lights it's it's spectacular there. People come
from far to go see them but um it does cause havoc for our our residents. we're trying to get home and whatnot. And thank you to everybody else that came and congratulations to my colleague. Welcome back on the day with us and I look forward with all of us working together to do some great work this
year. Thank you, Council President. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. I just uh wanted to apologize uh for you may have noticed I did not urge my uh colleagues to uh be as uh brief with their comments as I asked you to do. But I just wanted
to uh reiterate that to speed up the meeting. It would be helpful if we could keep our uh thoughts as brief as possible uh just going forward. But that's all. Does anybody else would like to speak? I see a hand. Councilwoman
you, Council President. Sure. Just wanted to again thank you to all of those supporters who came out to see my swearing in. Thank you again to Senator McKon uh for making special accommodations to come and uh give me the honor of that opportunity. Um also
just wanted to say that uh to Miss Bernett um since 2009 and parking that is absolutely a very long time. Everyone always says that government moves slow. Um but there's no excuse for government moving that slow. So um now we do have
parking studies. We have a dyn dynamic parking team. Um and as I stated um hopefully u we will listen as a as opposed to dictate um how your residents and and those in that area will leave live. Um so I'm looking forward to being
here on the second and understanding all of your needs. Um, also wanted to thank uh Mr. Johnston uh for his service on the human relations commission. Uh, wanted to make special note of his efforts to have all of our uh,
single-use restrooms um, changed in our community. Um that is something that was forward thinking uh done in many other towns and certainly uh giving recognition to not just the LGBTQ community but for those who also have special needs or who may be uh just in
in need of using a facility um with no regard to whether it is uh driven by sexual orientation. Um, wanted to also congratulate the teams and hope that our council
president will see it fit to have all of our award-winning teams come in uh before the end of the year um so that we can give them accolades. Um certainly with the West Texas Highlands being an ongoing issue um and sitting before the planning board um there's never going to
be a solution that is going to satisfy everyone. Um but certainly taking in consideration all those points that have been me mentioned um that is something that is um every time there is a planning board meeting on the West Essex Highlands um fervently discussed. Also
just wanted to um make everyone aware um that since my swearing in on Tuesday, I did attend the New Jersey League of Municipalities Conference in Atlantic City, which is an annual conference for local government officials and those in
um government. Um, I used that time to participate in several courses which included building equity, advancing minority participation in New Jersey construction, civil service commission updates on recent initiatives, cannabis regulatory commission landscape,
bringing broadband to your community and the powers and duties of the governing body. Each of these courses are directly relevant to the decisions we make um from economic development and workforce opportunities to infrastructure, public safety, and how we strengthen our
governing processes. I also attended multiple networking events where I met with municipal leaders, state partners, and subject matter experts who offered valuable insights that I plan to bring back to our community. On Friday evening, I was proud to support the West Orange Arts Council at the opening of
its November exhibit. That show features the work of three local artist August, Kathleen Haron, Bismar Trino, and Zitro. And the turnout was incredible. I encourage all of our residents to stop by the West Orange Art Center Gallery
and see this incredible exhibit. Also wanted to share that the sports media uh program will be hosting our December exhibit. We'll have three students um who will showcase and highlight their incredible work. and uh hopefully I will
be able to um share with you the opening date of their reception as well. So those first few days have been full, productive, and energizing and I look forward to keeping the public informed as I continue this work. Thank you, Council President.
>> Thank you. >> Who else? If you don't want to, I can I can go and speak if you'd like. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Uh those of you probably know I don't frequently respond, but I did want to respond on a couple of issues uh respond
to public comment uh just because I'm trying to move the meeting along. But some of the comments tonight uh have uh given me pause and I want to just speak a little bit more at length than I did earlier about public comment.
And I just want to reiterate that we should all have respect for the position up here and the person and we should treat each other as we want to be treated because if the pass is prologue,
we will disagree and our ordinance and Robert's rules of order strongly advise to focus on the issue and not the personalities or the person behind the discussion. And as council president, I will do all
that I can to maintain that respectful interaction and the same for other issues facing us. Many of them spoke in the night. We should treat each other as equals because that's what both our laws and our culture require and with the
respect that each of us deserves. We need to focus on the issues and the facts behind those issues because that will speed up the process of finding the solution and the compromise which are often required. And I just wanted to uh
if the u resident who came and spoke about uh West Essex Highlands since she's newcomer just want to remind her and anyone else who's interested in finding out more about that project because it's actually proposed to be double that size. uh a little under 500
units on the West Essex Highlands in the last uh uh last considerable forest left in Essex County. If you want more facts, you can go to wecarenj.com and that's a good place to start uh to
get more information about what's uh what's going on out there. It's now an application before the West Orange Planning Board and uh you can go to the township website and find that information. uh as well. Does anybody else would like to speak?
>> You want me to go? You can go. >> Okay. Yeah, I'll go ahead. Um Joy, I can't tell you how sad I am to sit here and and how sorry I am to have to listen to
you and your neighbors meeting after meeting after meeting since 2009. Um, and you make a really excellent point. Um, everyone in your neighborhood
needs to be listened to since 2009. You've been coming here and you need to be, your neighborhood needs to be treated like the rest of the neighbors all around West Orange. And I'm looking forward to seeing all of
those different streets that have a different solution than yours does. Um, I just I realize that you and your neighbors may not really
want to have one-way streets, and it's probably the recommendation that might have been made by the parking commission, but they need to listen to your concerns because you, like mothers, know their children better than the
teachers. you know your neighborhoods and your needs better than we do. Uh as colleagues in the school, you know that. And um one of the best courses that I had in when I did my MBA was um a course
by a psychologist and it was called active listening. And um I've had some experiences in the last week or so with my seniors and I just want to encourage our administration to engage in active
listening and make sure that we are listening to all of the concerns of everyone with empathy and understanding for their point of view. even if we don't agree and even if we feel like the
the consultants have the best option, I think it's really important that we listen and internalize what they're saying. So, um I want us all to do that up here. Um Stephen, thank you for sharing your concerns with us. We do have a citizens
review board. Um, and they do, you know, do some oversight. Um, it's important that we understand Robert's rules. You could see even sometimes up here, we're at a loss. And
as I've been working with many of the different committees, I have been thinking about for the last couple years that we need to have a seminar for all of our commissions on proper protocol and Robert's rules. Um, right now we have a new attorney and the
poor man is inundated with so many big problems, but at some point it's an excellent suggestion and something that I've been concerned about and thinking about for a long time. we should maybe take a conference agenda at some point and have a little overview of Robert's
rules and how we all should conduct oursel up here. So, thank you for bringing that to our attention. Uh, and Alicia, uh, the traffic at the zoo, I've heard this over and over. Have, uh, I'd just like to ask our, um,
engineer if there or Mr. Uh, Moraldo, have there ever been any traffic studies up there in in those areas around the zoo when there's >> So, that is a county road and we would have to rely on the county, right?
>> We we listening to um Miss is it Miss Kita is I'm sorry, Brea. Brea um listening to her, we're gonna we'll contact our county engineer, our counterpart to our director, and we can ask them to to look into that. >> Yeah, because we do hear hear that a bit. I think that might be helpful.
>> And to pastor >> and you could provide us if you want to send an email to me, I can pass it along to the county engineer. >> Okay. >> And Pastor Adams, thank you again for sharing um all of your concerns with us. Um I would like to address um things
privately with you. I think it's important to understand that a lot of what happens here is nuance and there are a lot of things related to our litigation and different aspects of what we do that the public does not know and sometimes we can or cannot share but I
will be reaching out to you and we can talk privately about whatever your concerns are. Okay, >> council. >> Okay. Um, first thing I'd like to address is something that did not come up tonight, but I think it's really important because of the number of letters that this council has received
and the number of letters that have gone to the administration, and that issue is the Mount Pleasant forest. Um, on a very very sad note, at the last council meeting, many people spoke to the council urging that the Mount Pleasant
forest be preserved for the safety of everyone who drives around the dangerous bend of Mount Pleasant Avenue and for the residents who live directly below the cliff. There was only one person in the room that night who could have stopped the cutting of the forest, only
Mayor McCartney. Yet the pleas of the residents and over 120 letters into the into our inbox fell on deaf ears. The day after our council meeting, the forest was cut into. It looks like a clearcut in the section that was
denuted. The mayor put out a statement misrepresenting the purpose of the open space fund trust fund. She claimed that the fund could only save land that could be devoted to recreation. This is patently false. The fund has always been
used to help protect environmentally sensitive land. Something and saving the Mount Pleasant forest was definitely that was definitely that it was intended to prevent flooding and erosion and a potential second ranulin
collapse. Mayor McCartney knew this well. She made sure when she was on the council that the land behind her house, which serves no recreational purpose, was preserved with our open space dollars. In contrast, the Mount Pleasant
Forest, with its abundant wildlife and breathtaking vistas, was admirably suited for recreation and hiking. There would have been ample parking on Ridge Road, which while a private road, has always been publicly accessible. As the
mayor well knows, this was a low point for environmental stewardship and preserving not just the environment, but for the safety and well-being of our residents. As to some of the comments this evening,
we had at least three residents address us with different areas having to do with police. I know we cannot speak with uh speak about Dr. Glick's remarks, but I do thank him for um for making his comments tonight before the council. Um
Miss Bernett, uh your concerns about parking and having a parking solution imposed on you, I'm in complete agreement. This has to be a um a situation where the community is listened to. And that is why I so strididently argue to have a second
meeting where your community would be included. I have asked the administration to send out notices to the community and I really hope that that notices can be sent out and not only that the notices be sent out in
Spanish because much of this community does not speak English. So they really do need to know when and where it is. So I am urging again the administration in in whatever fashion you can to drop a leaflet the the neighborhood so that
they can all participate and be part of the dialogue of what will happen with the with the parking um situation. Um there is a simple reason why the Satan Hall students are parking in that neighborhood. This town allows it. We
don't have to allow it and it can be stopped by issuing permits. New Jersey state law 39 colon 4-197.7 specifically says that municipalities may issue parking permits. As Miss
Bernett cited, it's been done all over West Orange, just not in the area that most desperately needs it. So to overlook the urgency and the need for parking um does not make sense. Um Mr. Johnson, thank you so much for coming
out, for writing to us and to um for bringing very very important issues about lack of integration in the police force um to the public's attention. Um, a few months ago, you may be aware that
um, an attorney for Lieutenant John Tito, um, a longtime non-white officer, um, alleged that promotions were not happening in a way that reflect diversity. Um, the numbers and concerns that you brought out certainly reinforce
that. I'd like to, um, understand from the administration why the report that Mr. um Johnson is requesting that was done by Ellen Okonnell has not been released to him that we do have uh compliance requirements with Oprah's. He's done an
Oprah. He wants to see this and I would urge that that report be released um to to him so that he can see um what the study u said. Um Leslie who came and spoke to us about
West Essex Highlands. Um I spoke a little bit earlier about what could be done to save land. I hope that the mayor can can help save this land too. Um this is not a situation where some people will be happy and some people will be
unhappy. There is not a single person who has attended any of the up to 16 hearings from the public who has argued for the destruction of the West Essex Highlands. This is yet another example of where the town could move
and use open space money and green acres money and actively seek to protect this land and all of the residents not only in West Orange but in all the municipalities that have come forward and urged preservation of this land. Mr.
Con, thank you so much for coming out and speaking about our very um our our residents who do not pay taxes but who are part of our community, the Canadian geese. Um I strongly agree with you. I spoke out last year against this
horrendous um practice of killing the geese. Um I was told at that time that the addling was the only thing that was done. I later found out that we have been paying for years for the geese to be gassed. This is a horrific pra p
practice. West aren't proud of this and we should stop this. Recently in the past year specifically we see that far fewer geese are living in our community and this is a loss to our community. I do not support payment of the permit to
continue killing them and I will be pulling uh pulling that that bill tonight. Um as far as um the lights concerned at the zoo, we pay a big price for all of the business that the zoo gets. It's all crowds our street. And
again I somebody else one of my colleagues also asked for um a study or some impact from the from the county as how we can deal with this tremendous influx. They get thousands and thousands of cars and the neighbors cannot get out
of their homes safely. Is there something that can be done especially during that time to help um regulate the traffic? And with that, I think that I've that I've covered everything that I that I wanted to cover tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman.
>> Uh, Council President, I'm sorry. Before you continue, I just have a brief announcement from the West Orange Police Department. Uh, if Sabrina Allen is in council chambers, uh, they're requesting that she move her car because she's blocking a charging station.
parallel at 46 hours. >> Thank you, Council President, and uh pardon the interruption. >> Thank you. Uh is there anything that uh anybody from the administration wants to respond to uh in any of the comments uh tonight that you haven't responded to
yet? >> Sure. just you want to go first. Do you have anything? >> Okay. >> So, first of all, um thank you for letting me speak tonight. Um I we haven't officially introduced him tonight uh as his first meeting. So, this is our assistant town attorney, Mr.
Greg Pastor. I want to welcome him aboard. He has been providing some counsel already, but uh so I want to just, you know, he was introduced a couple weeks ago when we uh when they were selected through uh consent of the the council. So, Mr. Pastor, welcome.
>> Thank you. Um and uh so that's first. Um second um so again uh I I'm hearing what Councilwoman Scarper said. You know we we do in the administration listen to the public. Um and we take in but we
hear sometimes one side or the other but we have to listen to all sides and that's what we're trying to do. Um I know that some of the residents are feeling uh slighted with the parking in the valley. I've been involved with this now for the last 6 months and I think we've really moved it along in the last
6 months and unfortunately sometimes these things take um longer than we expect. So I'm not asking her for forgiveness Miss Bernett and those in the neighborhood but understanding that we are trying to get a common goal for all um and that includes parking and
addressing all the concerns uh whether any of the streets and any of the situations. So we're listening to it all. That is the reason we did the study. That is why we had one public meeting. That's why we're having a second public meeting. Um and that's why
we've asked you tonight to approve a resolution on the dynamic traffic study. Um so that and I could have the director speak about that a little bit more later, but that's what we're doing. That's why we're listening. Um so so that's important to us. That's important
to the administration. It's important to the mayor. So, I want to make sure that we we address that. To say that we're not listening um to other things. Um I would like to address um um the the forest. The forest was approved in a zoning application and it's not a
forest. That is a selfdescribed name by a certain interest of people. That is Ridge Road. It's number 10 Ridge Road. That's the property. That is a lot and block number. It's not a forest. It's a property that's being developed. it was approved through all the proper channels and we cannot interfere with that
situation. So the fact that it was uh taken down and some people are not happy about it, that is not what we can do because it was legally authorized and the and there's an owner of the property who was putting in a home who has also said which was provided to the council
um is providing back more trees that are taken down. I believe the number was 114 or 117 I have in front of me right now. So they are placing back more trees. So to say that we're the the mayor was sitting idly by and didn't stop, that's not true. It was done through legal and
proper channels and that's the that's the status of the property right now. Um the what else? I'm trying to look. So I'm not going to address any of the legal matters that were brought up tonight because that's part of a process
that we have. We have a legal team. So I am not going to address any of that tonight. Um the geese this is not so so we can stre set for the record the director fonino
has requested that the D provide us permits to address the de the geese population. The geese population while some people appreciate what what they can do for their community are a hazard and a nuisance in accordance to the
health the director and others that they cause between the fecal droppings and the matter and everything else is a hazard to the majority of the community. I would say this for on point that while the contract may say gassing we have not
guessed as far as I'm concerned or no in the last two or three years have gassed any. All we've done is add the eggs. We need a permit from the D in order to do so. This this um this um um bill list, this $475 is the permit fee application.
We are not um in the process of doing anything right now with Adeline eggs or of that nature. So, um one of the comments was that that there's uh there's so few and the reason there's so few is because the program is successful. Um, so we're, you know, the administration is moving forward, the health department's moving forward.
We're we're going through the, um, the application process. Um, and and that's the reasons for it. And Director Fino has stated about this plenty of times. I could have him come back and state it again, but he would just all we got to do is, uh, play the the one of the previous meetings and it he'll probably
repeat himself. Um, what else do we have here? I'm trying to look that uh, the congestion on Northfield. I think I addressed that, but that that that is not our road. While it impacts our community, the the nine intersections we have with the with the six county roads
is always been a problem. And we can speak to our our counterparts um um in engineering in the county. And I'm sure that that we can ask them to address it. Um what's going to happen, I cannot promise you, but we can ask them to look
into that. Um there's some time and I think I covered about much of what I can cover as far as the questions here. So the last thing I do want to say um I uh I too want to thank Chief James
Abbott. I have been a colleague, a friend, um a confident um a chief with him. We work together. Um I couldn't ask for a greater partner. Uh he and I together ran the emergency services for
the town of West Orange for many years, him a little bit longer than me. Uh and uh and I'm grateful for um all the things that he has taught me or listened to and all the rest. And despite a lot of the negativity of of a few um there's
a greater amount that have respected him and have thanked him and appreciated everything he did for us. So Jim, I salute you. Congratulations. Good luck in your retirement. You earned it. That's it.
>> Thank you, Mr. Sorado. Could you please make your comments brief and stick to facts as opposed to your advocacy, which is very admirable, but we're trying to get through the meeting, so please deal with the facts. Please go ahead. >> Thank you so much. I always deal with
the facts. I just want to respond to to the remarks that Mr. Smearaldo made about the forest. Yes, it was a privately owned land, but it also was a forest chalk full of wildlife. And this
particular parcel of land will could possibly unleash a major disaster both on the road and on the road around the bend and on the community. And that is why the
environmental community advocated for so long to save this particular lot of land. The only permit that was given before the zoning board on this particular application was to move soil. And at the time the zoning board
officers did not realize what would unleash after the permit for rel for removing soil would happen. There was there are specific storm water requirements that are needed when these many trees are removed. And the storm
water requirements I have asked you and I have not gotten an answer. Not that you're you're being negligent in any way. I know that that it just hasn't been answered. Were not in place when all of these trees were removed and there is a tremendous amount of fear. So
yes, this was privately owned land. Yes, our environmental commission had um repeatedly asked to save this land. Yes, there were funds from the the uh the trust fund to preserve this land and a
decision was made not to preserve it. Thank you. >> Yeah. And I'll and I'll just say I was an advocate for buying the property, but under our form of government, the council cannot negotiate a contract.
That is a power under our law given to the mayor. And as much as we all dislike that law because of the consequences of this, it's it's a done deal. The property was was offered to us. the
prior mayor didn't wouldn't buy it. The current mayor wouldn't buy it and it transferred to uh people's uh a private owner. And as Mr. Smaraldo said, they went through the process. If there are some issues that were not addressed in
in a legal form, please let's take it up. But let's not spend more time at a council meeting uh trying to fight this uh trying to fight this battle no matter how admirable uh it is. And uh uh please
let's let's move on if we could. We're good to go. Great. Madame Clerk, >> Council President, we have a an executive session on the agenda tonight. I don't know when you wanted to address that.
>> Well, what do what do my colleagues want to do? I I would uh I would suggest that we uh pull out the three resolutions that are the subject of the executive session. Those would be 233-25, 234-25,
and 264-25. Uh see if we can get through the rest of the agenda. And uh then go to the executive session. And and uh when I say the rest of the agenda, I'm also referring to uh resolution 270-25, which
authorizes an executive session. >> I see a hand up here. >> Yeah, I I see our labor attorney in the audience. Um, >> who did I? >> Okay, I'll just, you know, I don't mind going now. I know we we're done with public comment, but again, I just wanted
to bring that point up that he is in the audience and we may want to do um those resolutions first in executive session and then come out and do the rest of it to let him leave. >> Uh, Councilman, had your hand up. >> Yeah, I'd like to do it sooner rather
than later. >> Thank you. So, may I move to move us into executive session? >> Yeah, we've got uh we've got a few other things to hit on before we get to the resolutions. And we we have to get through them to get to
the resolutions. I think if that's what I'm understanding you guys want to do. >> Sure. 235 >> and then get to the resolutions and uh >> 265 >> approve them. Is that >> is that sufficient? We've got a you know, the consent agenda is several different pieces. Do we want to do that
or do you want to go to executive session now? >> So I hear one. I hear two. Do I hear a three? >> I think we should do the bills first. >> A motion. >> I did make a motion that we go into executive session. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. >> Uh >> so we've got a second. Is there any further discussion >> that we should do the bills because procedurally we do generally do the bills and then go into the resolutions to do with
>> No, I'm okay. >> Well, we certainly Oh, excuse me for a second. We need to control ourselves. >> Raise your hand if you want to speak and be recognized, please. So, uh, we have a motion and a second. So, we're
having discussion about the motion and the motion is to move to executive session now. >> Right. >> So, we have a first and a second. Is there any further discussion? >> Okay, Madame Clerk. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa,
>> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay, motion carries. So before we go to executive session, we need to approve uh resolution 270-25, which is a
resolution authorizing an executive session for personnel matters. >> Make a motion to approve 270. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Just before we go, is there any any further discussion? Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Um, Councilwoman Ruden,
this is on 270 to enter in uh, not to Yeah. to do an executive session. >> Authorizing an executive session for tonight. >> I'm sorry. What is the question? >> Do >> your vote. Yes or no for >> go into executive session? >> No, you're we already voted on that. To
approve resolution authorizing an executive session. Yes. Okay. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Councilwoman Williams. Council President Kokovia. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you everybody. We will see you
just as quickly as I can make it possible. Orange. >> Good evening, West Orange, and thank you for your patience. Uh, council ch uh council has returned from executive session. As you can see, they are back here in council chambers, ready to
resume the meeting. And at this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagen. And now, I'll turn the floor over to Madame Clerk. >> Okay. Is there a motion to adjourn the exe executive session and >> make a motion? >> Thank you. >> A second. >> Thank you.
>> Any discussion? >> Madam Cler. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman. Yes. >> Council women uh woman Williams. >> Present. >> Well, yes. Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Great. We're back in. And it looks like on my agenda it's 2 agenda item two consent agenda madam clerk. >> Yes. Okay. So approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting October
28th 2025 November 7th 2025 and November 12th 2025. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Thank you. Report of township officers. None. Uh reading of petitions and communications and bids. None. Bill list. Are there any questions on the bills?
>> Yes, >> council. >> Just a second. >> Okay. I would I'm sorry that I did not get the numbers to u madame clerk before the meeting, but I just got a response
from our at um from our business administrator at 501 today. And I don't even have all all of the answers to the questions that that I asked. I'd like to pull bill 189688.
Easy pass. >> I'm sorry. Did you repeat that what I didn't provide you? >> I said that you provided me with the information at 501. So I have not had a lot of time to digest. >> Well, just for the record, I didn't
receive that cuz I was working on all the other council questions. till 4:30 on Friday and I didn't receive that email actually till the next day. Our staff is off on the weekends. They don't respond. >> And unfortunately our our council our QPA was off today and we had other
things we had to tend to. So I apologize for being late but >> when it comes in at 4:30 or 4:30 on a Friday, it's gotten tough to answer. >> I didn't send it in at 4:30. >> Guys, guys, guys, guys, come on. Come on. Let's just deal with the present. If
you have enough information to to make your decision and all of us to make decision, let's do it. If not, we'll we'll table it and and uh uh get it at the next meeting. >> So there's the the point you were making was about easy pass records. >> Yes. >> Can you repeat the number?
>> It's 189688 >> in the amount of >> I don't have the amount. It was not >> It was $200. 200. >> $200. >> It was a refill for an easy pass um
>> that's not accurate. It was a $200 refill, but the charge was $29 for that month, that particular easy pass. >> Okay. So, so it's not $200. We're talking about $29 now. >> It's a $29 charge she's the council
woman is referencing to. It's a $200 charge because it's a purchase order, an open purchase order, right? Replenish it to $200. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Councilman. >> Okay. Do you want my explanation on why I'm pulling this? >> Uh, sure. >> Okay. Um, this is an easy pass that is
being used for our uh current chief of police. I would like to know why it was paid out of petty cash uh police petty cash. I'd also like to know why we are paying for travel to places throughout New Jersey, including
and it's not it's not the the easy path because we as as a municipal um police officer um he's not charged for interstate travel. However, we are
paying for the gas and that that adds up. So I see while I'm looking at the easy pass I'm reading gas and there are charges to Belmar, Asmary Park, Brick South um throughout. We are also paying
tolls to New York City and Massachusetts and I would also like the full easy pass record for this tag since January of 2025. So my my question is basically I understand that the police chief does
not it's there's no fee when he's driving interstate but is it the township's responsibility to pay for personal travel outside of the state? >> So council president >> yes please. So, in the email that I did
send at 501 today, I directed you to the attachment of the letter that was sent out on June 24, 2025, and it says, "In accordance with to the township's policy and procedure 6.6 on the use of township vehicles, which is also included in the email, this office must approve any
vehicle designated as a take-home vehicle as stated in section 6.6-2 B uh Roman numeral uh two or lower lower two I's. Please provide a memo listing members of your staff who are required to take home a vehicle and the need of the vehicle access in the furtherance of
township business. The employee should provide with notification uh with notification that there may be a tax ramification under the IRS fringe benefits general violation rule if the assigned vehicle is not is for non-use emergency. Please note the following employees are exempt from this policy.
Police director, police chief, fire director, fire chief, animal control officer. According to this policy, this office must provide the information to the mayor and the township council within seven business days of receiving the notification. Please provide the information in writing, preferably by separate memo, which can be maintained by the township
permanent files by the close of July 7, 2025. In the event of an emergency, a member of your staff may take home any township owned vehicle with prior approval from this office. Thank you. That was sent out by me. And on July 1st, I sent every the council and the mayor the the uh the letter of those who
are authorized to take home the vehicle. The chief is authorized to take home the vehicle. >> That was not my question. >> My answer. >> Okay. Thank you. But that was not that is not relevant to why I am pulling the easy pass. I understand that the chief is authorized as is the fire chief is
authorized to take home a vehicle. My question it had to do with a use of easy pass outside of New Jersey and the and the tolls that were related to those charges that clearly do not have any
relevance to work inside West Orange. >> Okay. So again, all of this stuff is important, but it's not something we should be taking up our council meeting time. This is this is stuff that if we
didn't get to it before the meeting, we'll push it back for the next meeting. You can make a motion to table or or whatever. But we're not going to is it just me or we're not going to settle this issue tonight? And I again I I agree with Councilwoman Ruden. She
should get the information that she needs. And if we were unable to, we meaning the administration was unable to get her the information, we'll we'll just have to get the information and address it at a future council meeting. So, uh uh
again, I I'm just trying to push the meeting forward to address the issues that we can the business issues that we can address tonight. And I don't know that we need to further discussion. Either you either you request information and if you don't get it, we
have to push it back. It's just as simple as that. Am I missing something? >> One quick comment. >> Councilwoman, one just one quick comment. To my understanding through through all this time, we asked this question and it's a legitimate question. The answer has always been with the the
chiefs that they were required if they have to come back if they're away on vacation, no matter where they're at, that they may have to come back. And that's why that they're covered. And that's something that you want to look into in the future to get changed. That's something you see if you can get
change what is already in their contract versus not in their contract or what is mandatory through statute. So those those are but again like he I agree with council president. We're not going to figure that out tonight, but it's something that we can talk about. I
agree with him. We should move on. >> I understand. But the chief has been on sick leave throughout all of these trips. So I assume that if he is sick, he's not running back from Massachusetts. That's for council. >> So I think now and I'm going to defer to our council. I think we're getting to matters of personnel which are going to
be outside the scope of this meeting. >> I would like to pull that bill and now I will talk about the other bill that that I would like to pull. I'd like to pull the enterprise bill 187041. I have specific questions on that. some
of which were answered and some of which were I would like to continue the discussion on. I'd like to pull bill 186 961 on goose control for 475. I spoke earlier about my opposition to
continuing this practice of uh addling eggs for our geese which basically are very little population in in West Orange. I feel it's cruel. I feel it's unnecessary and I'd like to stop this practice and I'm just surprised that after all of the discussion last year,
this is still going forward. This is not a public nuisance problem. >> So, Councilwoman, you mentioned something about an enterprise bill. What was that amount for? Please. >> The amount was it's somewhat not clear
to me. Um was the bill only 540. >> Correct. So, Council President, if I may. >> Yes, please. >> Um, we also utilize Enterprise to handle a lot of our vehicle maintenance. So, there's not only a capital financing
plan in place, but they they cover maintenance. So, we may bring it to the Mavis um on Bloomfield Avenue in Verona and they do a tire change. Uh, and then we would just pay enterprise. We're not paying Mavis directly because they're
part of like the enterprise maintenance network. So that's what this is. This is a maintenance bill. It's not one of our big capital finance or capital leasing bills. >> Got it. My question had to do with one of the particular leases in that bill.
>> Okay. Um but the purchase order reference is just for maintenance. But if you have a question on the actual capital financing and we can get you that information. Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. >> Uh Councilman, you're still
>> um the floor. >> I have a question of I have a hand raised. Councilman Gling, >> I just have a question about what 110 110 Franklin Street is is a municipal building >> and they have a television there
>> that that is our part of our DPW uh facility that is the u assigned to the um maintenance of the our parks and recreation and a lot of the our um facilities have television stations because of weather and things of that
nature. They're not sitting there with popcorn in their feet up watching a council meeting, I can assure you. Um, but they are um they are um looking at things such as the weather and and a lot of our cable is pretty much free. So they they don't pay for um they're not
paying for paper pay-per- view or on demand movies or things of that nature. It's more about communications. So, I'm just pulling three bills and and maybe I I can go over those bills with Mr. Diniac after the meeting. >> Sure.
>> Oh, I do have one more question. Why is there a shower at 10 Rooney? >> So, because it's part of the section of the building that we lease. >> So, who uses the shower that would cause a a clog in the >> staff of the uh the staff that's assign
that rents the area? What staff would take a shower there? Our >> It's our tenants on the second floor. >> We we we don't >> we don't we don't speak about the tenants on the second floor. It is a private um agency and and they're for the use of the staff.
>> Okay. >> Madame Clerk, do we need any sort of vote to pull these bills? >> Okay. to get done. >> I'm not entirely familiar with your your council bylaws, but if if your practice is to defer to one council member's uh
request to pull something and you can do the rest of the bill list uh on its own, that's accepted. >> Okay, Councilman Castle, I appreciate your patience. >> No, no, no. That's okay. That's okay. Ju, just Councilwoman, we we already approved that goosey contract and I know you didn't support it last time. So my
my uh request is before we get if if we could know when that contract's going to come up again instead of waiting to the 12th hour um to give give notice. So if she has another recommendation
uh for that um >> the beginning of the year that >> so because it was a late delay I think this year what was it April or something like that and we were worried about the time frame of the addling that we couldn't get the uh or or approval from the D that was a late window the
director is in November being proactive and seeking that um license now this this fee is just to get the license it's not the contract that's being issued um it's just given us the permission to do the work in the park which we cannot
get a contract if um if if in fact we don't get the approval from the DEP. >> Yeah. Okay. I I I got that. So I just want to just make that recommendation. If you have another recommendation, get it together, you know, sooner so you have it before we're voting on it that
night. Number one. And um number two, I I do believe it's it's it's a severe health issue and uh and it has been maintained. We haven't gassed any geese and uh but again I'm always open to options but just to give her enough time
to get the options to us. >> Yes, President I I have spoken to director funds you know we will be taking out the gas from that that was an oversight last year's contract that will be removed so we that will not be an option. We will not be gassing the geese or anything of that nature. It is
strictly it is the recommendation of the health director to to use the adult eggs. That's his recommendation. >> Did you want to say it looked like you wanted >> Well, I I just wanted to respond to council councilwoman Castalino. We have gassed the geese. To say that that we
haven't is not true. We have and you can ask doc um Mr. Fonino. It is true. We have and we have documents ago, but not >> not a long time ago. Not last year. >> Hey guys, is this is this something that we're gonna has an impact on what we're
trying to do tonight? Madame clerk, >> I spoke with uh the director and he said it hasn't been done in the last few years. So, >> okay. Thank you. So, the the question is to pull these three bills so that we can approve the rest of
them. Do we need to go to a vote? And I think that's okay. So, is everybody Oh, go ahead, Madam Clerk. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Council President, I move that we approve the remaining bill list. Okay. Hold on. I just want to confer with the
deterren. >> Okay. >> Yeah. What we I think what we typically do is we'll pull out the bills that we want to hold >> to >> and then approve everything else. Yes. But we have a we have a vote because sometimes we don't vote to pull
ourselves orders. I'm just trying to get us >> an admirable vote. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So I my advice was simply so you know every council does things their own way. Sometimes it's 100% by the book by
the statute. Sometimes it's not. But the clerk pointed out that statute dictates that to pull anything off the list, you do need a vote. And um though I would recommend that you call for a motion and a second on Councilman Rhoden's uh three bills to be removed.
>> Okay. And I think we did have a motion, didn't we? >> No, that was a motion on the remaining bills. >> Right. Right. >> Right. First we have to pull the bills and vote on them and then we have to vote on the rest of the bill. >> But we have to vote on whether or not you're pulling the bills. >> Right. A single council person cannot
unilaterally do that. >> So we would ask Miss uh Councilwoman Williams to uh resend her motion on the remaining bills and then you can proceed on the removal. >> It wasn't second. >> We still we the custom has been we just >> resent. Yeah. No problem. I'll resend.
>> Okay. So now do we have a motion to pull the three bills that Councilwoman Ruden spoke about? the easy pass for $29, the enterprise bill for $540, and the goose uh >> the goose control related bill of $475.
>> I'm going to call for division. >> What does that mean? >> Separate those requests, please. >> Oh, okay. All right. So, you want to vote on each one? >> Okay. >> Have a vote on that. Just kidding. >> Okay. So, Madame Clerk, the first bill's
easy pass. $29. Do we have a motion to approve? >> No. >> I mean to pull. Excuse me. Do we have a motion to pull? >> I will make the motion. Is there a second? >> There's no second to
>> What do you mean? No. You want You want >> Oh, yes. Yes. Second. >> Okay. So, that this is for the $29 for the uh >> easy pass. Is there any discussion? Madame Clerk. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino,
>> uh, to pull. No, not to pull. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay, so that was pulled. Um,
okay. Hold on. I just want to get this straight. All right. Now, for the enterprise. Is there a motion to pull? >> So moved. >> Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, uh, >> no. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay, that carries. And finally, the goose control. Is there a motion to pull?
>> Yes, motion to pull. >> Is there a second? Okay, the motion fails, so we are not pulling that one. Okay, >> I move that we approve the remaining bills on the bill list.
>> A second. >> Okay. Um, all in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> No. >> Okay, perfect. Motion carries. Zero. Okay, now resolutions. Are any resolutions being pulled this evening?
We already pulled 233, 234, 264, and 270 was voted upon. >> I am good. >> Is there any polls? >> Yes, I am pulling um 261.
>> 251. >> 261. >> I'm pulling 267. Um I have question on 269. Okay. Okay. And um
I'd like to make a comment on 271. Oh, I had a question on Tuesday. Okay, I'll put that down. >> Is there anyone else who has questions, comments, or polls? >> Question on 265.
Anything else? Enough. Okay. So, should we start to review? >> I think I guess we can uh start with 261. Is that what you're suggesting?
I was going to start with >> for as far as questions are concerned. >> No, you do what you want. >> Okay. Can I go home? >> Other than that. >> Okay. Uh >> I'll go home for you. >> Yeah, there you go. Well, I was going to start with 23325 because that was the
first threes that was been pulled. >> Should we discuss? I make a motion to approve 233. Is there no discussion? >> And a second. >> Yep. Got it. >> Is there any further discussion? Madam clerk. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. Okay. And then 234-25. This is a resolution authorizing
agreement with Michael Kier, Deputy Chief of Police. >> Make a motion to approve 234 if there's no other discussion. >> Second. Okay. >> Any discussion? And because this is a personnel issue that we're sort of limited on what we can say and what we can't say.
>> Correct. >> But both of these were part of our discussion in executive session. >> Correct. >> So eventually eventually you will have you the residents will have an opportunity to see the minutes from the executive session at some point in the future. >> Okay.
>> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> No. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Kakoviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. Next is 261-25.
Resolution authorizing a contract to Servos Parcipony Greenhouses for the purchase of trees, root barriers, and deer fencing in the amount of $79,000 with an additional $12,000 to install deer fencing and root barriers if needed. Uh Councilwoman Ruden, you
pulled this. >> Yes. Um, first of all, I asked some questions about this and I did not get my answers back or if I did get them back, I did not get them till 501 and have not had a chance to digest it. Um, also I have gotten a quite extensive um
report from uh Ruter's cooperative which took a look at at our uh resolution and our practices and gave some suggestions. So, I would like to uh hold this off until we have further discussion and I
will send around the memo from Rutgers and hopefully this will, you know, we can we can bring this back on next time. >> Is is there >> Would you like to make that a motion to table? >> Yes. >> Motion to table. >> I'll second it. >> Well,
>> there's no discussion once it's done. You got to do it right away. >> So, I can discuss now? No, you can't discuss because it was >> I just want to make sure there wasn't a time constriction on purchases. >> No discussion. Councilwoman Castelino
>> to pull it without knowing if there's a time conriction. I'm going to say no. >> You don't know. Okay. >> This is a motion to table. So, >> right. >> It was Did you vote? I'm voting because I don't know if there's a time constriction because if
there is >> on on this purchase >> well that's >> on the contract to servos but you can't discuss it. It's an immediate vote. >> I have to say no because I don't know okay the answer to my question. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden
>> yes to table. >> Councilwoman Scarpa >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. That was legit. Which one was >> the 261-25?
>> Got a hand raised over here. >> Make a note. >> Speak up a little bit more. >> I'm sorry. >> I don't think all the crowds. >> Just wanted to make a note that it was dated for 129 2025. >> That one was >> Yes. >> Oh, so
>> that was state. I apologize, but it's >> going on. >> 261 was answered. I sent it to you guys last week. It was in the one drive. There's an answer here for a 261. >> Okay. >> Sent by director Kabalo and Miss SS.
>> Okay. Thank you. But I I think part of the issue uh is that uh Councilwoman Ruden says she got some input from I guess the Ruters cooperative. I don't know what that is, but anyway, that's something that perhaps we could consider. And uh
>> that's fine. But I just wanted for the record, you received this on Friday. >> Yes. Thank you. >> At 4:30 before the other ones. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. So, we've done with 261. >> Will you be able to circulate that
before? >> Yes, please. >> Oh, last year to order these. >> Yeah. Mr. um concerns. >> I I had asked the question uh about what
was the failure and replacement rate for the previous contract and I think there the answer that I got was a misunderstanding of what I was requested. So obviously it doesn't matter if we've just tabled it but I would like to know what was the failure
replacement rate for the contract for this year. >> Okay. And >> I would I would suggest that as we've been doing if every anybody else has any other questions, direct them to the president and he could forward them to me so I can get them to everybody. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Sounds good.
>> And and just so we know that um there are two sets of answers in the one drive. They're labeled um you have access from the email I sent on Friday. >> One is November 24th questions and then the other one says
it's a file under second. So yeah. >> Yeah. And the and the issue I think was that for some reason only the >> Oh, sorry. >> Only the only the questions that were
contained in the attachment were answered and Councilwoman Ruden's questions were in text within the email and that seems to not have gotten through to whoever needed to see it. So, I think that's the issue that that we
had cuz I I also emailed you about that issue late today and I >> Yeah, I thought they I thought every question got answered and if we didn't, we'll we'll we'll readress it, but um um I made sure we were answering all the questions. Okay. Timely manner, but other than the ones that we received earlier today.
>> Yes. Please tell Miss >> We answer we answered some of them. >> Um well, we'll try to answer as many as we could. >> Please tell Miss Reynolds to never take vacation. Okay. >> Yeah. She's not permitted any to inclusion. >> So, I'll send you please. Okay. And
we'll we'll get to the answers. >> Okay. >> Motion come up. >> All right. All right. Sorry about that. >> I learned fast. >> All right. So, um
I've been told that 263 needed to be pulled um until after the approval of the ordinance 2944-25 on second and final reading. >> All right.
>> So, you have to resend our vote on approving the consent agenda. pull 263 and then do our um >> we don't do the percentage. >> Oh, we didn't.
>> Oh, all right. So then all right, we're all good. So now we just have to pull 263 after all my panic. Okay, sorry. Go for it. Yay. >> Is that the administration that's pulling that? So we don't have to go through a vote. >> Um >> the procedure, right? >> Yeah. You want to you want to pull it?
We yeah we can follow it for the purpose of the second. >> Okay. >> Thank you. So we're not going to approve that until after the ordinance on second and final. >> Sounds good. >> Okay. So now we'll move forward. 264-25
resolution designating Dominic Aliggino OEM coordinator. >> Make a motion. >> Second. >> A motion to >> approve. I make a motion approve. All right. >> Is there any discussion?
>> Again, this is a personnel issue, so >> correct. Councilwoman Castelino to approve. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries.
Okay. 267-25 resolution authorizing a professional services contract dynamic traffic to provide professional engineering services for the implementation plan of the comprehensive parking study at the Valley Heights and Rolling Hill, I'm
sorry, Rolling Green Hills Municipal Plaza area and an amount not to exceed $80,000. Uh, Councilwoman Ruden, >> Madame Clerk, before we move on to that, uh, Councilwoman R. Williams wanted to ask a question about 265. Do we want to do we go through the come back to the
questions or should we >> Oh, that's fine. I'm sorry. I passed over that. >> Okay. Councilwoman, >> thank you. Um 26525 was regarding the improvements at Lafayette Park. Um this is now coming back before the council about eight or nine months after it was
presented. I wanted to understand if the original cost of these improvements is still the same or if the delay has caused an increase in the cost to the municipality and the taxpayers. >> Slight. >> There was a slight increase. I apologize. I don't have it in front of
me, but there was definitely an increase. >> There was a $6,000 increase. >> Oh, director. I'm sorry. I'll turn to the expert. >> There's a $6,000 increase. >> Thank you. And just for context uh for all of you
in the audience both online and here uh what the council had decided uh early this year that because of the priority of putting together a debt management plan, we wanted to suspend any discretionary capital spending until
after we got the plan in place. And uh we've had since then we spent our time on a lot of other things including the budget. We've had one presentation of the original uh debt management plan and we were planning to bring it back uh
today uh to get finalization and resolution. Uh Mr. Diniac was buried uh in a lot of other things that needed it critical immediate attention and so we are now going to address that uh debt management plan at the next meeting. But
that that's what caused the delay and the increase in uh uh the increase in the in the cost of the equipment uh at Lafayette Park. And um I think at the time that we agreed that we would prioritize the debt management plan that
no one expected that we would now be in November uh to try to do this. >> So Council President, >> please. So, I I have to disagree with that respectfully because I did support approving this uh back eight months ago.
uh mainly because it was money that was already approved and was already uh accounted for and I felt it did not uh did not um require another conversation about that was in regards to debt management plan because it was already
debt that was already issued out and consolidated in another bond. So I just want to clear the record because I was in disagreement with that uh vote. So, I'm sorry. I I just, you know, respectfully disagree because I did support this at the time and I'm
disappointed to hear now that it's $6,000 more for the equipment. I didn't realize that. >> Thank you, >> Council. So, Councilwoman Williams, I don't know if that all of that answered or because we have our >> No, I I appreciate the answer. I'm I'm
in complete agreement. This was monies that were bonded uh and approved from the my ser service on the council uh two years ago in 2023. Um and it's very disappointing to hear that we have cost the taxpayers 6,000 additional dollars
um to improve a park and a playground um that is basically a quality of life issue for those residents. Thank you. >> Thank you. Madame Clerk, Councilwoman Ruden, you
picked uh pull sorry 26725. >> Yes. Um I had asked in my questions um that uh for for um sorry for the exhibits A, B, and C which were not attached.
>> They're online. >> Yeah. Pictures. >> Would I know that? Our agendas are posted online on Friday morning. All of our materials are posted on online with all the exhibits. >> Well, I did not I did not know that and
I didn't see that. I was going by >> going by the packet. >> So, in your packet, did you get it in your packet? >> No, >> I did not. Oh, so in the future if that should happen, if you could give a call
to the office and I'll get it to you right away. I didn't realize that. >> Okay. I put that in my questions and >> I know, but I'm just saying once you get your packet on Thursdays, as soon as you look at it and you see that something might be missing, you know, it's just easier. >> I certainly will. >> Yeah, sure.
>> And I apologize for it not being in the packet. I didn't realize that. Um, is there a motion to approve 261? >> Motion to approve it. >> Second. >> Is there any further discussion? And just as a just as a again context, uh,
we discussed this at length at the last regular council meeting and uh, uh, Mr. Samero agreed that we needed to make changes uh, to a lot of the documentation and that was that was done. >> Yeah. >> So, just as just as a reference and
>> I want to thank Councilwoman Ruden for a lot of her suggestions in and within that. So, thank you Councilwoman. >> Are we ready to vote? >> Any further discussion, Madame Clerk? >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman, Councilwoman Williams, yes. Council President Kovia, >> yes. >> The motion carries. 269-25 resolution authorizing submission of an electronic grant application identified as LTPF 2026 Woodland Avenue, Forest
Avenue, Mcccluski 000037 to the New Jersey Department of Transportation on behalf of the Township of West Orange. Councilwoman Ruden, you had a question on this. >> Yes, this was again another question that I submitted in my questions. I would just like an an explanation of
what this project is and the terms of the grant. >> Mr. Smolder, are you able to >> um Which one is this again? I'm sorry. I'm >> This was 269-25. >> Yeah, the director's there, but I'm going to see 269. I believe that was answered as well from the director. So,
let me double check. So this is no different than any other DOT grant. Um basically the project is going to consist of doing milling and paving road improvements for drainage striping. Okay.
This is on all of Woodland Avenue. Forest Avenue. >> No, >> if you look at Woodland Avenue, Willlet Avenue was actually recently paid for Yes. So, it's actually going to go from wherever the seam of the pavement is all the way to Prospect Avenue.
>> Okay. >> And then the other side of streets which haven't been done in I believe probably 30 40 years now. >> Okay. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> And that's a that's a heavily traveled >> street for sure. It says no matter.
>> Yeah. Let's get that contractor back. >> Who was that contractor? Um, >> do you have questions about the other streets or >> No, I I was just I I know that Woodland was recently done as far as that's why I was asking.
>> Yeah. So, Woodland is going to be from Forest Avenue to Terrace Avenue and then Willland Avenue from Terrace to Prospect which is basically like I said from the seam of the pavement all the way to the county road on Prospect. Then you got Forest Avenue from Willland Avenue to the dead end core which is a little tiny
street and then you have Harper Street from Forest Avenue to Redwood Avenue. >> Right. >> Okay. So this is a grant. >> We're applying for the grant. We've been lucky before. Typically we get between 950 to a million dollar. So I figure we
could use it here. The last time that we used these grants were on LTPF 2023 and 2024, which we used them for South Valley Road, which is a long stretch of road. So, I figured we could do the same thing here and that way we don't have to come up with so much money. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. >> Council Ruden, you've gotten you've >> Yes. >> Okay. Counciloman Williams. >> Thank you. Uh, Director Carbalo. Sure. There was um I don't have it in front of me. I couldn't find it in my paperwork, but the terminology for the asphalt
paving, it's is it red hot or um >> HMA hot made asphalt? >> Hot mill asphalt. Yeah. >> Just wanted if you could just give us a little bit of um explanation about the difference. >> Sure. So the hotmet asphalt pavement you have either 9 and a half M which is like
medium asphalt typically that's the surface course then you also have the HMA base course which is typically 19 and a half um that's >> is that I'm sorry is that >> no >> 19 and a half >> yes that's like the thickness so typically the roadway will be DGA which
is 6 in then you have approximately 4 in of base course which is the base asphalt and then you have the surface course which is typically 2 in. So you have about a foot 12 in depth. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome,
>> madame clerk. >> Oh, yes. Sorry. >> Okay, so next is 271-25 resolution approving a professional services contract with Matrix New World Environmental Services for tasks outlined in their proposal for the
property at Rock Spring Golf Club. uh in an amount not to exceed $49,800. Councilwoman uh Kathleen, you had a file. >> I had it down. It was Councilwoman Ruden. >> She pulled that. I just had a question. >> Oh, excuse me.
>> Yes. I I just wanted to pull this to put on the record once again that the reason we now have this cost is because we bought contaminated land and we accepted the land asis in the contract even knowing that there was a bit of
contamination and now the township and the taxpayers are on the hook for paying almost $50,000 to do a cleanup at Rock Spring and we still have not received one penny of money from Green Acres for
the purchase of this property as a result because this is now tying up our Green Acres money. Miss Carbalo, my reading of the uh documentation was that the good news was
they didn't find any problems in in the examination. But the bad news is it's going to cost us almost $50,000 to do one more test to confirm and then to close up shop. >> And yes, and there's not a whole lot we can do about that. But it it is relatively good news. And I'm not
disputing what Councilwoman Ruden was saying because uh that was that was a long time ago and and uh that was part of the issue. But uh >> it's not as bad as it could have been. I guess that's a >> I guess we're lucky the select field was not contaminated which we were
concerned. Um they actually have to test the groundwater in the um wells again. Um they also have to do a site investigation report that needs to be amended. Um the LSRP will
actually fill this out submitted to D. Once that is um I guess reviewed by D then we will do the uh remedian remedial action outcome plan which is basically to close it out. So hopefully we'll be able to do this
I would say maybe in the next three months or so. Question. >> Sure. >> Councilwoman, >> so I guess for yourself and Mr. Datiniacs, where does that leave us? Uh we were approved for over a million dollars for green acres for 2025.
Correct. And when and do we have to wait for that to close out to receive the monies or does this report suffice that so we can move forward with to receive the monies? I believe we have to close out the remedial action report before we
can draw down before we're we're given permission to draw down. >> So So again, when we bought the property, were there any funds held in escrow for any of this remediation?
>> Not that I know of. No. Okay. >> Attorney could look to see I'm sorry. >> I said does Could the attorney look to see to see what >> Yeah, I mean if there's and I'll
certainly take a look. Um but you know sometimes you get property for an extraordinarily low price in con in consideration for no contingencies. is you buy it kind of sight unseen and you know it might have cost you you know x
millions more if you had take you know gone through the phase one phase two process and all that and so it cost you a little something to get past that but I don't know that for a fact so I'll certainly look >> that could be a little bit thanks >> that was not the case here
>> $12 million for somebody to say that >> well could have been 15 >> but I'll check Okay. Council wrote ahead. >> I'm sorry. >> It was noted in the original contract that there was a concern. >> Yes. >> I'm glad to hear that the concern was
not as as serious as it was, but it was noted and and in the contract it said that the township accepted as is. >> So, I don't believe that there were to be any money in an for this. >> No, I don't remember that either. So,
>> okay. Okay. Uh, is there a motion to approve 271-5? >> Second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Okay. Let's pull that reso. >> Yeah. Now we are on to >> Oh, it's already been pulled. 263. Now we >> Yes. Now we have to do Oh, yeah. We have to do the consent. Sorry. Yeah. Is there
a motion to approve second? >> Counciloman Ruden has a question. >> Just just before we do the consent, I just wanted to thank um our new attorney, Mr. Seamero for revising 26825 which had to do with um the helicopters
coming into Monontlair to add >> um as I had requested um a to to make sure that Monontlair Country Club adds West Orange as an additionally insured to protect the township, god forbid something terrible happens with two
different landing events in West Orange. So, I just wanted to thank thank Mr. Samaro for making that quick change, >> madame clerk. >> Okay. Um, so we have a motion and a second on the consent agenda. All in favor? >> Any opposed? The consent agenda is
implemented. >> Now on to ordinances on second and final reading. 24, I'm sorry, 2942-25, an ordinance creating a reclassification and salary schedule of certain Township West Orange employees set forth their
titles, classification, and salary ranges and is opting a salary guide and establishing the employee status as a township employee under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of Personnel. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final? >> Make a motion to introduce.
>> Is there a second? >> Second. Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> I'm going to abstain on this. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak,
>> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Now is the time for the public hearing on ordinance 2942-25. If anyone would in the audience would like to speak, please raise your hand, be recognized, and you can come to the
podium. You can bump our town engineer off to the side and have up to five minutes to speak on this ordinance and this ordinance only. Would anyone like to speak? Seeing no hands raised, I close the public hearing. Madame clerk.
>> Okay. Is there any council discussion? I just wanted to add that the the reason we're passing this is because we're adding uh some titles to the uh salary guide that reflect collaboration
between the council and the administration to add a municipal department head planning director. a long sought a long sought uh position that we uh were able to convince the mayor to do and I think will be a great
benefit to the township. We're adding keyboard clerk/ secretary to the mayor and a transportation analyst. Uh so with that said that I just thought that would fill out the reason why we're doing this. Is there anybody who has any
further comment? Oh wait, we have the do the motion. Did we do the motion? >> No, not yet. >> Okay. So, is there a motion? >> I move to adopt on second and final reading 29- um 2942-25. >> Second. >> Okay. Now, discussion.
>> Any discussion? >> No. >> I sort of drained that. Okay. >> All right. >> Yeah. Good. Good. Good job. >> Describe it. >> Councilwoman Castalina, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> same. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes.
>> Okay, the motion carries. House President >> just to um echo your sentiment, you know, on behalf of the mayor, we appreciate the collaboration that we have here. You know, we everybody seems to be able to move forward with a lot of the different programs we're looking at
and I for one appreciate the support of the council as well. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Amen, >> Madam Cler. >> Okay. 2944-25 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 19 sewers subsection N 19-1.3
and chapter 20 streets and sidewalk subsection 20-3.2 of the revised general ordinances. These amendments to the sewer, the street, and the sidewalk ordinances will delete the fee schedules for inspection of sewer, curb, and sidewalk repair or replacement
by contractors working in the township and establish that the new fee schedules will be prescribed by a resolution of the township council. Is there a motion to introduce on second final? >> Introduce. >> Thank you. Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden,
>> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarf. Councilwoman Williams, yes. >> Council President Kobia, >> yes. The motion carries. >> Thank you. Now is the time to for public hearing on res ordinance 2944-25. If anyone would like to speak, please
raise your hands, be recognized by the chair, and you will have five minutes at the podium, up to five minutes at the podium to discuss to comment on this ordinance and this ordinance only. Do I see any hands? >> Is Isn't that what we just voted on?
>> No, this is No, this is the next one. You got to keep up with us. >> I've got Okay, >> got to keep up with us. >> I I know. I know that we've been trying to break you in. I missed something a couple of uh votes ago. So >> Oh, no. You were spectacular. You paid for yourself tonight with uh stopping us
from screwing up the approval of the resolution associated with this. >> You're an allstar. >> If you need any information, you can always reach out to me. I'll give it to you. So, seeing no hands, given a an extended period of time, I'm closing the public
hearing and uh turning back over to Madame Clerk unless there's any discussion. >> No, I move for the adoption of 2944-25. >> Second. Thank you. >> Uh, Councilwoman Castelino,
>> yes. Councilwoman Ruden, this is what I >> Yes. Councilwoman Sparpa, >> yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Great. Let's go back to the resolution before. >> Yes. 263.
>> Pastor, >> we leave him behind again. >> Okay. So, >> I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. >> We're back at 263-25. Resolution prescribing fees that says as set forth in ordinance 2944-25
and ordinance amending and supplementing chapters 19 section 19-1.3 and chapter 20 subsection 20-3.2 of the revised general ordinances. Is there a motion to approve? >> So move.
>> Second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Um, >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Kobia, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries.
>> Now we are on back on ordinances on first reading 2945-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-21, multi-way stops of the revised general ordinances of the township of West
Orange. The ordinance, which amends the traffic regulations of the township, designates the intersection listed as a multi-way stop intersection with stop signs on all approaches. Due to the safety concerns and multiple requests from the township residents, the township's engineer
engineering division authorized a traffic study by Bright View Engineering that determined that a multi-way stop intersection would allow safe movement of vehicles and pedestrians, especially during rush hours and school dismissal hours. Is there a motion to introduce on
first reading? >> Second. >> Second. Thank you. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. >> Councilwoman Spa. Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> We have Miss Carvalo because she doesn't want to go home.
>> Yeah. >> Could you just explain just to everybody? I I think this is only one item in this ordinance. Could you just explain why we're doing this? We're doing this because I received um a couple of emails actually from a few parents who drop off
their kids in the morning in this area by the uh Roseville Middle School and they actually said that um they were close encounter um accidents. So since I received more than I would say probably three or four emails, I decided to
contact Briiew Engineering to conduct this study and indeed it does call for a full waist stop. >> Okay. Yeah. because what's exists there now because that's sort of in my neighborhood is a two-way stop. >> Yes. Right now the uh stop signs are only on Dharmmouth
>> and now we're going to add them on Forest Hill Road. So next council meeting hopefully um we just got to put up the signs. Already have it strike. >> Okay. It was one of my favorite intersections in Gregory because I could there wasn't a stop sign there. So >> and the park's right there too. Everything else. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. It's a good place. >> Okay. 2945, I'm sorry, 2946-25, an ordinance amending chapter 28, sections 1 to 111 of the revis I'm sorry, 1-11 of the revised general
ordinances of the township of West Orange establishing certain standards, procedures, and fees for tree protection, removal, and replacement. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? I >> Is there a second?
I'll second. >> Okay. >> Discussion, please. >> I would like to table this. >> Yeah, I was going to second that, too. >> You don't want to talk about trees. I meant >> No, >> I do not. And it's not even debatable.
>> Okay. So, here's here's the situation. Um, if it's tabled, we only have one more meeting in the year. So, you would have to bring it back at the next meeting. you'd have to start all over for the new year. >> So, I could just explain as to why it was presented this way. Um,
>> we do know it. >> Just a second. Just a second. Just a second. Just a second. Just >> Yeah. Just I just want to give the explanation for the public. That's all. So, our our our forestry division had asked for this request because they feel that there's about 33 or so um minor changes that need to be addressed. Some
of them have to do with either like a typo or looking for the word viable as opposed to nonviable for trees. Um, and the biggest concern I had was for the amount of money that's in the tree replacement program because, uh, the previous council had set it at a lower
rate um, than it was originally uh, presented at. And what they're finding is that the $250 rate that we're collecting for a tree is way less than the cost of the trees that were we're planting that that are the option for the homeowner or the business. So, um,
that was their concern. That's why we've brought it. Um and if uh if there's further disc and we wanted to try and get this done prior completed approved prior to January 1st because we have the renewal of all the licenses for our tree uh services and providers and things of
that nature. So, we were trying to cut down some work for the staff so they don't have to do it twice cuz if it if this doesn't get passed or it doesn't get approved, then they're going to do it uh you know they were going to administer based on the previous or the current and if it does get approved and if it is approved on the second time we
introduce then they're going to have to do duplicate work. So, they were trying to to reduce the amount of potential. So, and we part we apologize for the the late uh coming in, but this was something that we thought was um as it was told to me that that this may have been given some consideration. So, I'm
just giving the explanation and the council could do whatever they would like to choose to do tonight. So, okay, that's all. >> So, procedurally, if you want to proceed with the motion to table, you'll need to uh resend the second and the motion. uh
and then you can proce you'd have to remake your motion of >> table. Let's discuss. >> So my recommendation is >> because we already we already >> you already have the motion in the second. >> We have the motion to approve it on first reading.
>> Right. If there can't be if there's going to if we can't come to resolution with this with any amendments for second reading that um then we either pass it or we vote no and
we move to next year. >> Right. Councilwoman >> amendments on second reading would mean that we would start over anyway. >> Yes. And I just have some couple of substant it would it would change
substantially the the the ordinance. So I mean I just think we could wait because there's some other things that I'd like to discuss with my colleagues since I'm just getting here um with concerns from when we passed it originally. I just think that the replacement for non-viable trees is
punitive and I'd like us to reconsider um that part of the uh contribution to the fund. I I've just had a lot of >> residents who have had to remove trees.
They were dead. There was nothing that they did to cause the tree to die. when you have to spend eight or $9,000 to spend to remove a tree, any contribution is still punitive towards our homeowners. So only the portion when
it's a nonviable tree or when it's a tree that's >> and the other issue too is that the difference between viable and nonviable is that we're saying that viable trees can be no more than two which is which is whatever the code is but it doesn't say if the person has two dead trees or
two viable were taken down and then there's a third dead tree that it may become an emergency and we can't take it down. So there's there are there are some things that we think that should be, you know, re-examined and and addressed. And so I mean, if that's the case and, you know, we don't want to
pass this forward, that's fine. We could sit down and talk about this. We could have we could have a couple of council members sit with our experts and let them then we could hash it out, make something that's more presentable for after January. >> So, uh, you know, we just wanted to put this forward now so it would be under
some kind of consideration. So, >> Council, thank you. Yeah, I you know I've kind of said this a number of times and um I really feel like we have to think about this. I we we cannot get something as important as this that
takes some time to digest on like Friday afternoon and be expected to vote on it. Um I I am not going to I'm going to vote no or table anything that's of the like this that really needs some due diligence. And I really want to ask that
we stop doing this, that we stop putting things on at the final hour. >> So, so Councilwoman, this just so um the council president could say, you know, I did advise him this a week or so ago. I thought we had a conversation. Unfortunately, um the attorney who was
preparing this was ill last week. So, this wasn't intentional to put on this quickly. We, you know, we and we understand this is very important. That's why we wanted consideration. At least we're having a conversation about it now. and and you know, we're willing to pull this to work with you on this, but it was just that only because we
have two meetings left that we didn't know if there would be consideration or not. That's all that that's the only reason. This wasn't to try and jam something through. It was just about trying to have that communication. So, and so and I understand the future. Let's really try not to >> Oh, no. We we are we're we're making
that effort. We're making concerted efforts, you know. So, Well, >> thank you. >> Councilwoman Kelina, did you have a question or a comment? >> No. So, what do you want us to Well, what what I I am going to ask of Thank you, council president. What I am going to ask of administration is
in regards to what residents have been having to pay for replacement costs this year. Can we get some kind of record of it? >> Yeah, I can ask. Yeah, but I I like I like to see a record of it because I again maybe I lost that part of the
amendments with the vote with the non uh viable trees to have to replace if you know I thought we took that out. So >> if I may um council president if you want to have all the questions directed to you again and then this way you can forward them to me and then we'll
>> you know including the information. >> Great. Okay. >> Just a just a quick question. It's procedural. If we have a council meeting on the 9th and it is approved on first reading, how much longer do we have to wait in order to have a second meeting? Because maybe we can have a special
meeting if it's convenient for everyone. Particularly >> 10 days. >> 10 days. Oh. So we could >> 10 days after publication. >> So that's be a few days after. So, we could we could uh possibly pass it this this year if if if we spend between now
and the 9th working out all those details and then uh maybe present a slightly different version. What does everybody think about that? Councilwoman, >> um the I don't know where you're you're seeing that that dead trees have to be
replaced. That was removed. that is not part of this ordinance. >> So, I didn't >> it was removed. If you see it, let me know where it is, but it's I had a big hand in this and and I remembered this council removed that. So, that's that's
not part of it. As far as the fee schedule, we are not adhering to the fee schedule that was posted and I don't know how to address that. trees are being taken down and and the are going into the tree fund and it's a
very arbitrary amount that is being determined. Um and I I don't know if that should be addressed in this ordinance that there it should be mandatory that the the fees that we are assessing for replacement
based on size be adhered to. Councilwoman, how how do you know? Do you have any documentation that that's going on? How is the documentation? Could you circulate it to everybody so we could >> Yeah, we needed Sure. Well, I did point it out all of the trees that were taken down at
>> um at at the manor, the assessment for the for the tree was $48. >> That's litigation. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Just >> although the trees that were just taken down at Mount Pleasant Forest, >> they were $250 a tree when they should
be either $500 or a,000 based on the circumference of the tree. The DBH, it was very clear in the in the ordinance. And if you look at the permit that was just circulated about the Mount Pleasant Forest, we are not adhering to those fees.
Any information on that? We were waiting to see if we I provided a response on the amount of trees and everything else. I wasn't asked the amount of money that was spent on it. So that's a question again if you send it to us. Well, we can we can certainly get
that information. It's from what our our staff have been telling us is that it's they're having a difficulty administering the fees. That's in comparison there. there was some contradictory. So, I think that's part of the conversation we need to have. You can shake your head. No, I'm just telling you what they told me. So, um
that that's what they told me. Um I've had these conversations. So, um you know, let's have that conversation. We can meet with the staff and you know, I know two council people can meet and we can set up a meeting. So, you you pick amongst yourselves who wants to attend the meeting and then we'll we'll set up
a meeting with them. This way, we can try and get this if if it is the will of the council to try and get us on for the next meeting, we could do that. we can even get our attorney, one of our attorneys involved. So, I would suggest that maybe early next week at some point after the holiday that we set up a meeting if you and I'll I'll find their
availability and I'll send you a couple times and see what we can do. >> Is is this something in terms of the fees that are documented? I would think so because if we're taking in money, we got to have a record of it, right? They're from what I'm being told the money is being collected and they and
they they keep that within the the the software that they're they're um okay administering. So I will ask them. I don't know the exact numbers. I will ask them and we can provide that for you. >> Well, let's get the details and just circulate them to the council so before that meeting. Um
>> yeah, I'd also like to know if the fees that are charged in court also make it to the tree fund. That's a question we have to ask um the the courts. Maybe >> I'd be shocked if they were >> if they were >> if they were I mean municipal court
money is >> administered separately but it it may based on policy but I would be surprised >> for a fine for removing trees they get who gets that money >> local ordinance fines collected go into the general fund as a general matter. I
mean, in other words, if you get a littering fine or if you get any other local ordinance type fine, that's why in the municipal courts, the the the court loves ordinances over statutes because a lot of the statute money goes to
Trenton, but the ordinance money all stays home. But I'd be I'd be shocked if it was getting reappropriated to the tree fund. >> It's probably just part of our monthly turnover from the municipal court. It's an anticipated revenue, as our attorney says. Uh, so it's not I don't see a
detail. I just get a check from the municipal court. >> But if it doesn't go to court, we keep it. >> The replacement >> Well, if if if somebody just pays their their replacement um money, it goes into
our tree trust. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But if it goes to court, >> but if it's going through the court, no, I don't get like a breakdown that says, you know, $500 is tree fund and $500 is penalty. That would be part of the it's it's all lumped together just in
their check to us for the fines and fees. >> Go ahead. >> Is there any way to to change that? because apparently we got $13,000 from um from the manor from one of the parties at the manor and that is just going into the municipal and that was
for tree removal. It really seems that that should go into the tree fund. >> I need to type >> I mean I I would have to know about it probably take that. Oh >> I I have a lot of experience municipal courts that that's governed by the
judiciary. their um their bookkeeping is guided by Supreme Court guidelines. So, I don't know that they have latitude to make that distinction. Um I don't know, they might. So, that's something we have to check out with the court because they're a completely separate
>> branch of government, their judiciary. So, how their books are handled is beyond this the uh the jurisdiction of of the municipality or even how executive action is taken. >> Yeah, that me too. So, so just as a followup that that Mr.
Smaldo said, let's try to schedule a meeting sometime next week. Is there any two of us that want to attend that meeting? >> I do. >> Okay. Is there anybody else? >> Um, >> I'll go if nobody else does, but >> yeah, if you want to go go at the end of the week, I can't
>> you express some interest if we wanted to. Okay. So, we got our two people for this. >> Okay. I will send out an email to both and copy BCC the rest and uh and try and get it scheduled. >> That sounds good. And if you could just provide us any of the documentation to everybody, that would be great. Ahead of the meeting, that would probably be
helpful. >> What was the other thing that we needed to have two people meeting, >> but I hope we bring that birthday cake on December 9th. >> Yes, sir. >> Congratulations.
>> Cupcakes or something? Was there was there something else that we wanted to meet Mr. Smartle with you about? >> I I I'm sorry I'm having I don't believe at this time. I think we were discussing that and um
I believe we um I know I believe the other thing we wanted to speak about was already passed the salary some second reading. I think that was something we're going to but I I sent you information and we reviewed it. That's what we spoke about earlier today. Oh, I I there was another meeting that you
wanted to have with two of the council members, but I can't remember what it was. >> Um I don't recall this time, but if we do I don't recall this time, but if we do, we'll >> Okay, I'm happy to be wrong. >> Yep. Madame Clerk, >> are there something? So, we have a vote on the floor to introduce on first. I'm
sorry. We have a motion and a second on the floor to introduce on first reading. Well, >> well, >> you would normally do that, but you already had a a motion and a second. So, uh to approve >> go two ways. You can either withdraw the second, then withdraw the motion, or you
can just take a vote and vote no. >> Either either is the same because if you want to make revisions to the text of the ordinance, then you might as well vote no and start from scratch because tableabling just means you take the same thing and kick it down the road,
>> right? So that's down. >> That's cool. >> Okay. So So you want to >> resend my motion to No. >> Are you just you're going to resend the motion to table? >> Okay. >> Vote it down. >> Any further discussion, Madam Cler? >> Well, there was no motion to table. It
was a motion to approve changing. >> And that's what we're going to go forward on because I think right there may be enough votes. >> If you don't want to go forward with it, vote no. So Councilwoman Castelino, >> no. Councilwoman Nuden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> no.
>> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Koviaak, >> no. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> No, we have >> You wish. >> Pending matters. >> Pending matters. >> Pence of pending matters. >> Now, now motions to adjourn are not debatable.
>> That is true. That is true. >> That I can tell you for sure. >> That is true. >> Well, those need a second though. So, is there is there any uh new business? >> Um, >> I don't see anything on the agenda. No, but I'd like to add I'd like to to
revisit because um we have had some some I guess stall in a couple of the ordinances that I've tried to bring forward and now now that we have a new attorney and assistant attorney, I would like to bring back for the next for the
next um meeting the noise ordinance and the fire pit ordinance and the tree of heaven ordinance. So, those have already there's been considerable work on each of those and I can send them to to the attorney's
office with the revisions. >> So, you feel like those are ready to go is almost >> almost in their current form >> almost. >> Okay. >> And I I have also seen um the fire pit ordinance that Mr. Seorero suggested and I can send comments back on that one as
well. >> And if it gets to first reading then I mean it won't be so different from what everybody has already seen. >> Right. >> Um if people want to make amendments at that time then we will and we'll go back to another first reading. >> I'll report that back >> if just a second. Um I just want to
bring up that I've had separate conversations with Mr. Schwaraldo and Mr. Samero because there's such a backup. There's a lot of ordinances that are outstanding to just put together a table with a status report so that we can identify everything that needs to be considered. And uh it sounds like
Councilman Ruden has uh left me in the dust. Uh but what I'd like to do is certainly move ahead on these, but also get this status report because there's I think there's seven or eight of them on there that I could think of uh that's been backed up.
So, if you can Yeah, if you I'll I'll provide a list and if there's anything else we can do because I know like the fire pit um u Mr. Seamar's office has um provided some information on it through the chief and the noise ordinance. I don't know where that was. That was
actually handled through Mr. Tran's office. Um we'd have to go through that again. >> Commentary >> was waiting for commentary. Yeah. So, the clerk and I can uh we can caucus together and figure out what was owed. >> I don't know. I don't know. I don't know
if if you know the numbers I mean know the ordinances that we're talking about. I don't know exactly every single one we're talking about tonight. >> Okay. >> Something to to refresh our memory. We'll >> Okay. I'll make sure that the three that uh Councilwoman was working on gets added. I'm not sure all three of them are there. And then I'll I'll circulate
it like >> and I'll check back with Mr. Samar's office and can explain the council would like to see these for introduction on the night. >> Okay, sounds good. Council, >> thank you. Um, just procedurally, my question is I thought that we had to have a majority vote to move something
to the next meeting. >> Has that already been done for these three? >> So, why are we putting them on without a majority vote from the council to do so? >> I don't know. >> I was under the impression there was a they there was a consensus. I there may
have already been some of this stuff has been sitting around for months. >> Yeah, not the fire pit. I'm sorry. Let's just one one at a time. One at a time. These >> Hold on just a second. Counciloman Williams have the floor. So >> each of these that I mentioned, we already >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Please.
Councilwoman Williams has the floor and we'll get to you just as soon as she's finished. Please go ahead. >> Thank you. Fire pit ordinance. I've not seen any indication, any preview, any discussion um from this body in a total before it can move uh to the next
meeting. So I think the recommendation has to be based on past practice and my understanding um that it has to come before us for a majority vote before it can go on to the next meeting. >> Right. >> That's typically what we've been doing.
>> Hold on. Councilwoman Ruden had asked, do we have an answer to Councilwoman Williams? Because Councilwoman Ruden really wants to talk. I I believe that it's council president's discretion. But if that's not if that's not the way you've handled it, it's, you know, then
if you've historically done it by because I don't think there's statute on that as far as listing it. Um, so I, you know, then take a vote and and see if the uh the council would like to see it on the agenda. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Okay. So for each of these we have we
have discussed it under new business some of these two to three times and each time the body agreed to move it forward. At that point something else was given to us. For instance with the fire pit ordinance we asked for we
discussed some of the few points that we wanted the um the legal department which was then tran put together an ordinance that had really nothing to do with what we had talked about. that didn't negate the fact that what we had initially
spoken about was to move forward the ordinance that we had suggested. So then there was another backtrack to have hearing from the fire department which was worthwhile and then they were going to uh have some input. So, we have gone
through the motion several times to get the fire pit ordinance on and as well as we have talked about the noise ordinance. We talked about it extensively. It went through new new business and then a version came on and
then it was and then it was stopped. The tree of heaven, the same thing came up under new matters. We discussed that at least twice that that would be moving forward and it again was stopped. So I'm bringing up matters that this council
previously agreed to move forward. So the way it was originally explained was that they were essentially in the can in introductory form and we could just put them on the table and and if that's not the case then I think you should take a vote just
to be sure that a majority wants to see it on since you only have two meetings left. If something gets put on it's now going to need substantive revisions. It's kicked back to January anyway. Well, actually with one meeting left, unless you have a special, you're not
going to get it done. >> Uh I don't know when your signed die is, but um you don't generally second read and hearing on ordinances in your signed die. So >> I mean, unless it's some sort of urgent
matter, I I think you're probably better off kicking it into January and doing it as part of the new year because with one meeting left, you know, legally, you can't >> Why couldn't it go up for first reading? Yeah, >> because you've got a you've got a second read in the same calendar year as the
introduction. >> Yeah, you have enough time enough meetings. >> You won't have a second meeting >> Christmas >> in 2025 December >> in order to finalize. >> Okay. So, I'd like these to go up so that they will be on in the first week in January.
>> Right. I mean, maybe drafts for discussion. Yes. You know, on the 9th would be >> Yeah, because I can't remember some of this stuff. So, it's been that long. It's been that long. Councilwoman. >> So we did just for council to know late at night we I I you know I forget how
the vote went. I didn't vote zombie time. >> Yeah. Yeah. But there was discussion for it it to move forward and I remember I worked with councilwoman. We were on the phone with Mr. Rivera when you were when you were away and um I think we agreed
then with Mr. Rivera that the tree of heaven wasn't really going anywhere with the support from the council. So, I'm not sure that's how I remembered it. The fire pit um the chief wasn't excited about that when he came, but um he had
no issue if we came to consess consensus on uh something that would work for for the public. We don't want to ban the fire pits, but we we just want to make sure people aren't burn are burning what they're supposed to be burning. And um so that one I could see what was the
third one? >> Noise. the the noise we got stuck on because it's about the decimal reading. >> No, it's not. We're not using decimals. >> Please, please don't interrupt, please. >> Okay. So, I Yeah, January, if we see a ver a version of that, we could start looking
at um I think the closest one you'll have to maybe passing would be the fire pit one. I wasn't I wasn't going to support the tree of heaven as it was written at the time. So, um, anyway, but we did they in fairness to councilwoman,
it was pushed forward because we did vote. >> Thank you, >> Council Ruden. >> Okay. >> So, um, if I may, who where are these ordinances coming from? is legal writing them or
>> well that's part of the that's part of the issue that I think we need to address because we talk about them at new business and unless we have it written down so that we can modify them before we vote on them sometimes we're just agreeing to something sight unseen
because uh Mr. Trink was uh strongly in favor of of the uh legal department writing the ordinances. >> It's in the ordinance. It's in our ordinance. >> Right. Right. But but there there there
is a uh a perspective that I share which is that we should draft something in writing so that we can discuss it at new business and then at least give a a a good draft to the legal department so that they know what we're looking for
and then they can vet and say, "Oh, this is illegal or this is not whatever." >> Do we have a standing ordinance committee of the council? >> No. >> That would be a really good idea. Well, most places I've worked, they've had an ordinance committee that works
with the the municipal attorney to to do these things. So, >> right, our ordinance does not allow >> standing K committees. All we can do is committees of the whole. >> So, maybe we need a ordinance committee to put together an ordinance that allows
>> ordinance committees. But anyway, that >> the ordinance. >> Yes. Hold on a second. I I I'm not sure who had their hand up first. Did Who did you have your hand up? Okay, please go ahead. >> So, the whole reason why we during this vote was not to back up the attorneys
because, you know, we start just throwing ordinances at you. We have to make you know that you have enough time to get everything all done as well. So, >> and you don't want to be guessing either. We want to know what you want to see and so it >> make sure you have the support from your you know that we have a general
>> idea. Understood. >> You know. Yeah. >> Not to waste time and money. >> Mr. Simro, I've talked with him and I think he's talked to the council that he agrees with that. >> I have a question. Um, can't the council president um create committees as he sees fit or she? >> The ordinance does not allow that. It
just allows committee of the whole. >> Yeah. >> But it that certainly is something to look at. But I I would think that that's going way back to, you know, when we originally when we originally Yeah. adopted >> 1872. >> Yeah. I This is my first foray into
Faulner government, so I know I know the stuff pretty well, but I'm going to be learning for a few months. >> The number is not that deep. Come on. Perhaps >> about what you can and can't do. Exactly. >> If you could just look into that and see if there's any way that we could create committees to do different things like
that through the council president or whoever. I >> Yeah, it seems to make sense. >> Probably not allowed if it makes sense, right? Yeah. >> Motion to adjurnn. Well, just one comment just to that again like we we we
don't have the authority for that. We could vote to see who if we wanted to go forward, but we could also have a work meeting where we all work together to make sure that we give the attorneys something substantial that we know that
is passable as opposed to uh wasting time and money. We could do that. just >> it's pretty difficult to pull everybody together, >> especially with the holidays coming up. >> Is there any is there any other issue? >> I have another question. Could we use a conference agenda to do that kind of
thing? >> No. >> Uh it it's right there in the ordinance. There's there's no allowance for committees. That's the bottom line. And that's the that's our ordinance. That's second,
>> right? >> Can we Can we rewrite it? I mean, maybe >> that's what I was suggesting. If that's what we want to do, we can we can take a look at that. >> We need 8 million committees. I It's just insane. >> A working session would solve those problems. That's why most municipalities
have them. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> I'm allowing that. Second. >> Um. >> All in favor? I any opposed? Meeting is adjourned. >> Great motion.