Good afternoon, West Orange, and welcome to the combined budget and council meeting coming to you live streaming from council chambers for Tuesday, July 21st, 2026. The first two hours of this meeting, as indicated, will be devoted
to the budget, and the council meeting will start at 7:00 and the conference agenda is canceled for this evening. At this time, I'd like to turn the meeting over to our council president. >> Okay. Thank you everyone for joining us both in person and on Zoom. Madam Clerk,
>> this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the Township of West Orange website on July 14th, 2026.
Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. Councilman Koviaak. Councilwoman Ruden here. >> Councilwoman Williams. Council President Scarpa >> present. >> Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I >> aliance to the flag of the United States
of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their budget meeting. Okay, it is um time for public comment.
Is there anyone who would like to make public comment? Hey, Mr. Gibbons, come on up. Want to get you on. >> Welcome. >> You ready? Thank you. >> All right. Good evening. My name is Kenneth Given. I'm a CPA and auditor and lifelong West Orange resident of Seven
Rigs Place. I am here tonight to ask for an update on the status of the forensic audit RFP. I reviewed the RFP the same way I would review an engagement request because the language defining the engagement determines its scope, its
deliverables, and ultimately what taxpayers are paying for. That's why the label on this one matters in my opinion. Based on my review, this RFP covers 2021 through 2023 years and primarily compares projected
revenue to actual revenue collected. That's a legitimate analysis we do in my field, but in my professional opinion, it's not a forensic audit. A forensic engagement is typically driven by specific allegations such as fraud,
misappropriation of funds or material weaknesses and internal controls. This RFP does not identify those types of allegations. Instead, it describes what appears to me to be a financial revenue review. That distinction isn't merely
academic. It affects both the scope of the work and the price taxpayers of the pay. And it matters even more in a year when taxpayers are being asked to potentially pay higher taxes. Before this engagement moves any further, residents deserve straightforward
answers. What is the current status of the RFP and has a firm been selected? CPA firm been selected. What is the maximum cost of this engagement? How many firms submitted proposals and who are they? What measurable financial
benefit is expected from this engagement? and how will success be evaluated? Did the citizen budget advisory board uh recommend a three-year forensic audit? And if they did, why? I'm asking these questions as an independent CPA, not as a member of this
council or citizen budget advisory board. I wasn't part of discussions that shaped this page, which is precisely why I'm asking the questions publicly on behalf of the tax res. I'd also like to raise one additional matter tonight, which I
understand is the final budget workshop. Months ago, I submitted a detailed request list regarding the budget to assist in my independent reviews and my professional backgrounds, the CPA and the CGMA. I still have not received the information I requested. With the
township again on pace to adopt this budget very late like last year, I hope tonight's workshop is productive between the town council and the volunteers that work very hard to sit down budget advisory board and hopefully prevent a tax increase on the residents already
struggling to make ends meet. I respectfully ask the council provide an update on the status of the forensic audit RFP. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Bob. Good afternoon, evening. Uh Todd Deovi,
um Bernett Terrace, also CBA member. Um on behalf of CBA, I just wanted to point out that um uh our CBA chair had not been informed of this meeting today.
um from either the administration or the council. So we just ask that you know those communications be made so that we can be prepared for these meetings and contribute something helpful hopefully.
Um, and uh, just to respond to um, uh, Ken's comments about the rationale for the forensic audit, the answers to his questions are in last
year's uh, report that we produced. Um, the the reasons for the time period and what was covered and asked for. So >> would you like to briefly enumerate on them? >> Um >> if they're at the top of your head on this >> uh well off the top of my head I don't
know the details because I haven't even looked at it but I know the the uh reasons for what was recommended were enumerated in that in that report. >> Okay. >> Um and we're still working on this year's. >> Okay. >> That's all I got. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Uh just next. >> Uh good afternoon. Justin Goldzman, West Orange. Um tonight's budget topics are public defender, insurance, and central mailing. So I just have a some
questions. Um on the public defender line item 200 for the relief public defender um 2025 we spent $175 uh,000. This request for this year asks for double that at 35,000. According to
the budget document for March 31st we've already spent $35,000. So for prorating that projected expense that would put us at over $100,000 this year for the public relief defender line item. Can we discuss the rationale for the 100% increase and will there be any leftover
costs after March 31st on insurance um unemployment insurance in 2025 we spent 85,000 the budget asks for 100,000 again as of March 31st we've spent 50,000 so prrated for the remainder two quarters that would put us
at 150 can we explain the almost double expense page 56 general liability again similar topic we spent 1.285. Budget asks for 1.61 million, which is a 300,000 increase. The document also says
as of March 31st, we've spent over 800,000, which prrated would put us at 2.42 million. Can someone speak to the increase of at minimum 300,000 and at maximum $1.13 million difference? Also, on general liability, there's a 25,000
expense for a risk manager. Can someone speak to whom that is? What if that's a program? what the program is and what are their responsibilities for the town. Page 58, workers comp insurance. Um, this actually went down by 50% according to the previous budget. So, I think we
should just uplift that. And if we can speak to what we did well there to translate that to other areas. So, I mean, that's a savings of about $400,000 between the two budget years. So, I think it it's hard for me to understand that one because it's not funible money, right? workers comp insurance, but we're doing things to mitigate our risk and
workers comp liability. I think that's great. So, if we can talk to that, that'd be awesome. On page 60, health insurance, um, more of a philosophical and governance question, but does have fiduciary impacts. So, as the landscape of healthcare continuously change almost
daily, federally, and through state regulation, who in the administration and within the walls of town council are responsible for monitoring those changes? We think of health care costs as access to care, which it certainly is, but it also has impacts on our
budget. For example, if New Jersey finally were to pass meaningful legislation on pharmacy benefit managers like Assemblyman Fryman and Senator McKon are working diligently to do, how would that impact our budgets? Do we have the ability in our budget systems, as they're currently outlined, to
proactively view what our healthcare costs will be? If I tell you that PBM costs are going to go down this year or the price of GLP1s will go up this year, what does that do to our budgets for the next two to three years, I think being able to look at our budgets through multi-year budget projections again and
take the societal and governmental impacts that exist outside these walls and apply them to our budgets as a living breathing document do wonders so that we can actually project out what those costs of health care costs would be. So that's my health insurance question.
page 62 for central mailing line item 110. Uh there's many people in this room who are becoming very familiar with the cost of stamps and postage. Um so postage is about 83 cents a stamp. Um our CFO informed us a few weeks ago that by law we are required to mandate uh to
to mail out tax bills. So that in theory is four tax bills per resident at a a quarter for a tax bill. So at about 20,000 homes times four times 83 cents a stamp that's about $66,000. The budget asks for 12,000 more at
77,000. But somehow as of March 31st we've only spent $671. We've just sent out another tax mailer. So if we can get an estimate or an update as to where the actual costs are because if we've only spent $671 for mailing our tax bills, that's
remarkable. Um but I think that probably just needs to be updated. And then just lastly on a general discussion question that I've seen in the news a little bit lately on social media, but recent council discussion on a library sign
item. Um, it costs the town $25,000. I'm not talking about the settlement. I'm not talking about anything like that, but the sign address is wrong. So, we spent $25,000 to put the wrong address on our library sign. Who will be responsible for funding the remedies to
that sign? Which budget does it come out of? And lastly, just in my last few seconds, I want to thank the council, all the department heads, our CFO, everyone here, um, who has made these budget workshops happen. They're good for public input, for public transparency, and hopefully they found
some savings, arduous or not. Um, it's a good exercise. It helps us be involved. Um, so thank you for good governance, and for our fiduciary responsibility. I appreciate it immensely. >> Thank you for all your wonderful, thorough questions. Uh, any Michaela, did you want to come?
Thank you. Uh Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. So um I'm I'm reserving the um line item specific for when we discuss but um uh two points. Reiterating what Mr. Dovi had shared,
there was no notice. I know I've asked on two prior occasions to make sure that the citizen budget advisory board um receives notice either from the administration or from uh council president. Um it allows us to know what
the final plan is number one. Number two to be present uh number three to be as prepared as possible. if we know that you're moving forward today, we would have tried to have met as a group uh prior to and so um
you know the process I think what we can offer um would work mly and much better if uh notice was forthcoming and timely. That would be number one. And then number two, um just
an overarching comment consideration. Um, I had raised at previous council meetings the issue of the sewer uh tax and um the idea of the sewer tax being included in or the resources from the
sewer tax being included in the general fund, whether or not that was appropriate and whether or not um um you know there should be con some considerations around that. In the event that the sewer tax um is determined to
have been inappropriately managed or or the money from the sewer tax to be inappropriately um aortioned, um I think you need to know in advance of finalizing your budget um efforts to
know whether or not you need to plan for those resources that at least historically were being included in the overall budget. Um and you probably should raise that in advance of closing your efforts um around the budget. Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you. Anyone else would like to make public comment? Councilwoman Castelino. >> Sure. Thank you, Councilwoman. So, first let's address the >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's >> Let's close public comment. >> Thank you. I'm so close. >> Thank you, Councilwoman.
I >> so I just want to address the comments first about this here this tonight's budget hearing because you know you know you folks were here present and thank you for sitting through all the budget meetings. Um I know they're long and we
all get tired. Um but we clearly stated the last time that we would be meeting before the meeting tonight to finish up the loose ends which we stated at the end of the meeting. So, I mean, I didn't even know all of them myself um coming
into tonight, but there was a few pages we had left that we talked about. I believe I myself personally went over the page numbers um when we're at the last meeting. So, again, from there on, I it shouldn't be such a surprise. I get
it. You you would appreciate a document. Um but we we did discuss it. It was only a couple pages. Um but thank you. you know, I know it's hard work and I appreciate you uh reviewing everything. My second comment um in regards to the
sewer tax because I take this personally because I said on the council all those years, I don't know where and why there's statements continue continuously in the public that um that this was you know what's wasn't appropriate. We knew
when we that I say we the council that Councilwoman Williams and I sat on that that year that we had to increase the fees. We didn't want to but uh we had to and we didn't want to even do it the way we did it. But because we weren't set up
uh tech uh with the technology uh we had to do what we had uh what what was done. But we always knew where the revenues were going. It was going into the general fund. it was clearly stated. Uh say what you want about the the prior
CFO. He publicly stated that um and um so we always knew that was going there and I'll let Mr. Diniac, you know, talk to that point with the sewer tax if we should be, you know, doing anything else at this point in time. Uh in regards to
the other pages and the other speakers, I appreciate everybody for coming down and asking all your questions. A lot of them will be discussed on um because I had some my own questions in regard to some of the items on the pages. I I just think it's we need to get to it. Uh
because we do have a public meeting at 6:30. So >> seven rather. So you know we should do it when we get to those pages. But thank you everyone for those questions. I wrote them all down so we don't miss any of them when we do get to those pages. And I think it's best for the uh for Mr.
Diniac, Council President. someone steal your thunder, but you should talk about the forensic order. >> Yeah. Okay. And I was going to say in terms of the sewer, um I know I had mentioned and maybe Mr. Din Din could talk about this before we move on, but I had mentioned that we wanted to capture
some of the 501c's and the nonprofits, which is why we had decided to go that way in the past and that we were working towards the usage model, but as you said, we didn't have the technology in place and I know Mr. Datiniac is doing that. So, I'll just let him briefly
discuss the sewer. >> Sure. So, the the sewer fee, not a tax, sewer fee. Um, correct. Is in the the current fund or general fund. Um, you're right. Putting it as a fee and not a tax
allows you to more easily capture uh the nonprofits, those that that do not have to pay property taxes. Um, also your your pilot properties. um it's easier to to get sewer monies out of that. Um one other option
is to create a sewer utility which I know we've discussed uh in the meetings where you truly would um allocate your revenues to the operation of the sewer utility. In our case, our participation
with joint meeting, um, you know, the existing debt that we have related to sewer infrastructure improvements, specifically our pump stations and and the sewer lines that run throughout the township. Uh and then any sort of allocated labor costs whether it's DPW
salaries and wages or if you allocate administrative staff to any sort of sewer function tax collector for instance you know maybe 80% of the tax collector's day is dealt with property taxes and 20% is dealt with the sewer
billing and and receding sewer payments. So you can allocate some of that. Um so you know we we did discuss some of that. Um as far as moving forward uh we just implemented Edmond's tax which you know
thankfully has been going really really well because we have our quarter 3 um tax payments that are due on August 1st with a um uh with a grace period out to August 10th. So we've been receiving our
payments through what we call the whip. If you paid online previously, you dealt with the Munidex system. Um the whip system allows the township to get our money much quicker. Um we get it the next day. So you make a payment the
night before, we get it the next day because of the way um uh Edmonds has uh a business relationship with a company called FIS. So we we're getting our money much faster and and it's been going really well. This will also enable
us, if we so choose, as a as a township to um potentially move to a usagebased sewer uh fee fee system. Uh right now we're utilizing what we call, you know,
number of bedrooms, which obviously is not if you have a three-bedroom house, you may have a five bedroomedroom sewer bill because of the way that we define bedrooms. Um, and you know, I think there's a feeling there that if somebody
is living alone, uh, and they have what we count as five or six bedrooms, you know, they might be paying more than their neighbor who has three bedrooms, but a house, uh, full of people, and they're obviously putting more into the
sewer system just by way of, you know, showering and, uh, you know, using the facilities. and you know operating a family of five versus a a one person household. So um we have a system in
place. We have worked out sort of the old sewer billing system. We I think we're 99% of the way there. We obviously have to have that in place. And now we're going to start the process of of being able to take American water
data and and apply that to those accounts that we've set up. But we also have to do the work of the study, the the rate study to determine how much money do we need um you know whether
it's in keeping a current fund based system where we have it now. um how does it look when we have a utility? Um so there's my point is there's a whole lot of work that's got to go into revamping and moving to a a a
usagebased system. Ordinances have to get passed. If you're going to a utility, you got to go before the local finance board and they would have to approve. Um so my point is that I don't know if there I don't think there's enough time this year to make that
change. This is probably going to be a 2027 change, but the work has to happen now for for that to even go into effect in 2027. Um, a long roundabout way though of addressing Miss Bennett's um
question of, you know, how much is truly allocated to sewer. I think this exercise will will determine that. But um you know I've said it before that there definitely is some surplus that's
generated and when I say surplus I mean money from the sewer fee that goes to pay for other appropriations in the budget just as you know ABC licenses don't just go to pay for uh Karen's budget it goes to pay for everything
because it's all in in the big pot of of revenue. So um >> and that's legal. >> Yes. I it's it's a fee. It doesn't if it's in a utility then you are
more restricted. So like pool revenue for instance you know I I can't I can't take uh I can't take Karen's assistant and and charge or to the pool. She has nothing to do with
the pool. Um, so I'm restricted in that those expenditures have to be related only to that utility and then those fees that get generated from that utility stay in that utility and that would be the same sort of thing with with sewer
and that's that's part of that whole >> sure >> the work that you'd have to to put into it because you'd have to demonstrate to local finance. they they would have to see proforma um you know how much you going to generate and then and what are you you know what are you charging to that
utility >> thank you um Councilwoman Ruden >> yes um thank you for that report I'd like to know who is currently doing the rate study so that we could do roll this out in 2027
>> so it would be me doing the rate study um we're not going to hire anybody to do it I've I've done them before. Um I I just need that American Water data in a in a place that I can
manipulate and uh so I'm going to have to pay American Water. I will have to pay American Water. They won't release it for free. Um and then I can apply some sort of standardized billing methods
that are used throughout New Jersey. And when you said we need to figure out how much money we need, can you give us a calculation on how much money has spent for the sewer infrastructure this year, last year? >> No, I I mean off the top of my head, I
couldn't I couldn't because like I said, um this has to be carefully considered because >> do you want me because that's it's a question you could get back to us on. Did you want to go next? I >> I don't have anything right now. Thank
you everyone for your comments. We'll address them as we go through the budget. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ren, did you have to respond to public comments? >> Thank you for all the questions um that came up. I hope to go through them as we get to each item. Um but I would like
there to be an answer to the forensic audit even though we have discussed it in the past. It was brought up again. What's going on with the forensic audit? When is that going to start? >> And maybe Mr. >> Sure. Sure. Um I I I can't answer all of the questions um uh raised by Mr.
Gibbons. Um I will say that um we did receive three submissions and one had a fatal flaw. I think I I'm safe in saying that. So we have two viable submissions. Um I've reviewed them. Um, but I still
do need to bring together a a group and and hopefully we can do that prior to the the August meeting uh to review and score. >> Do you think it was unusual that we only got three? What was your expectation? >> Uh, what's the work?
>> I I was hoping for a few more. We had a lot of bites. I had firms reaching out. Um, but ultimately, yes, it was only it was only three submissions. >> You have any ideas why that might be?
>> Um, you know, I I think the firms that know the whole New Jersey municipal audit are somewhat limited and and I think that's probably what kept a lot of people from from
submitting. So, you know, because we have the RMA audits and uh there's only so many firms in New Jersey that do RMA audits and and honestly in the last few years, there's been so much consolidation with the RMA
firms. Uh it's it's limiting the pool not just for forensic audit, it's going to limit the pool for the municipal audits. >> Okay, great. Councilwoman Ren, please. Well, the one other thing I I will add, you know, it's somewhere in the
neighborhood of about $150,000. >> Okay. >> For the audit. >> Okay. Councilwoman Roden, go ahead. >> Oh, no. I'm done. Thank you. >> Okay. Councilman Colleague, >> thank you. I agree with Miss Bennett uh of her use of the word inappropriate
multiple times in her comment in reference to the uh sewer fee. Uh, I was complaining about it a decade ago because a lot of the money that was being raised was not going to sewers and
back then it was only roughly a little bit more than $2 million and now it's well over $9 million. So we have a a huge problem in that we have a a big source of revenue that's much of it is going into the current fund uh and we're
depending on that to run the township. So, as part of the creation of a utility, I think at the top of the list of what we want to do is we have to figure this question out and start reducing this $9 million plus fee
because it's much of it is not going to to sewers. So, I want to ask I think I've asked before, but I I want that to be part of the discussion if if we're going to consider a utility that that we
figure out how to start whittling this down. It's just it's just not fair to uh taxpayers. Um, also wanted to follow up with some of Mr. Gibbons comments. He had asked
for some information going back weeks and weeks and weeks and uh I tried to follow up and and tried to get a response from the administration. Perhaps we can get one now as to uh why he was uh does not appear that he was
receiving the information that he requested. I don't know whose decision that was, but >> Well, either we should >> Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Just answer. Oh. >> Oh, yes. Please. Please.
>> I mean, I I'll give my answer. So, that's not really the standard practice for municipal budgets in that. I mean, listen, you can make an Oprah request and if the OPER request is
is deemed that we have to comply with it, we'll comply with it. But I I I don't know what kind of precedent that would set if we're just having, you know, private citizens say, "Hey, you know, I'm going to do my own study and I'm going to involve you and now you have to give me all these things." I I I
think as a body, you have a citizens budget advisory board that you can work with and that's probably the channel you should go through. But if it's, you know, could be Mr. Gibbons today or could be 10 other people next week and like is that what we want to do? were
just going to be giving everybody information to conduct their own budgets. I I I just it's it's so like out of this world uncommon for for a municipal government.
Not to say that we wouldn't get a good product from Mr. Gibbons because I understand he's, you know, he's a very intelligent man. He's got a lot of experience, but it it's it's just not something that that we do. And I I don't think it's a great precedent to set.
Again, if there's an Oprah request and we have to comply, we'll comply. But, you know, I I only have so much time in in my day. Like, >> so was he asking for information that is either um confidential or would take a
long time for you to >> Again, I just like the budget is for us to do. It's it's yes, we have these hearings, but like direct work on a budget is not Yeah. It's it's it's for us to be accountable for and to
be successful or fail. You know, we've all >> made that choice to either be an employee or an elected official. Like, it's up to us. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, so thank you. I I I appreciate that. It doesn't surprise me what you're saying. Uh, I just thought it was
appropriate that somebody with decision-m gets back to him even though it has to be under a live a live performance. It sounds like you're suggesting that perhaps a possible alternative is is for Mr. Gibbons to work through the CBA because the CBA
does >> that's that's what I would recommend. And I and I know that there was work done with the the pretty big document that we posted and I know that they did some analytical work based on on that document. So you know again I I don't want to seem
like I don't want to help and and be transparent but like there is sort of a limit to the transparency and and and the working with the public. Um >> okay let's go. Yes. I want to just ask questions. absolutely limitations to
everybody's resources. I totally agree. I just wanted to get that addressed. I wanted to follow up on a couple of the comments about notice or at least formal notice to the CBA. I think it's really crucial that we get some agreement on
the process for notifying CBA about this. it's uh I think it's obvious that we make it more difficult for them to do their job uh if we don't give them uh sufficient notice that they can prepare ahead of time. So I just wanted to throw
this out as to who might take responsibility and I don't want to point fingers or anything but we do need to get uh a process so that CBA knows >> I'll take responsibility. So when I do the 48 hour notice I'll do the council and then I'll include cabbab.
>> Super. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Cler. >> Thank you very much, madam. >> That's uh that's all that's all I had. Thank you. >> I just have uh I don't have too much. I just did want to ask Mr. Datiniac in relation to the sewer build. Do we know what percentage of the funds comes from
the nonprofits and the pilots? What percentage of the whole 9 million? >> I I couldn't tell you off top of my head. We could run a report. >> That's important question for I think for us to know. And uh Mr. Gibbons um I will get you
CVAB's uh last uh I think it's on the website as well and and we'll look at it and we can talk more about that in depth offline. Okay. All right. And that's all I have.
>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, so for the public at home, I'm on the the homepage, uh, Township Bus homepage, bus orange.org. Uh, there's on the the news and updates feed. I can
click here and it's got not only the Zoom address but um it's a link to the agenda center and we can click into the July 2021 I mean July 21 2026 meeting and here's our
agenda for tonight and I'll quickly go to where we can find the budget if you want to look at home I was there. Okay. So, I usually go to departments and I go to finance and then you can click budget up here
and here's our PDF copy that is searchable, printable, whatever you want to do. Um, and so when we click into there, we're going to get this 207 page document. And we're going to start
tonight with public defender. >> What page? >> And that was one of our CVAB questions. We're going to go to page >> page 40 in the uh in the PDF document. Isn't that Isn't that
>> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Would uh that's the max out is 35. >> It's page 45 in the PDF. Page 40 handwritten. Um so the the request for 35,000 is for the
full year and the paid or charged is a full year incumbrance. So, uh it's not it's not like one quarter and then multiply that by four to get to to the number. So, um which is confusing because sometimes we have like a
quarterly spend and then other times it's like we encumbered for the full year. So, um basically what um Mr. Marin's fee works out to be is $33,600.
um for the year and then we left a little bit in there if we have any special uh additional um court days >> that he would have to fill in >> doesn't it because we had um not to exceed clause at 35
>> not to exceed is 35. Yes works out to be 33,600. Yeah, >> that doubled. So, we charged some of the money to the
public defender trust last year. I don't regenerate the public defender trust um enough to be able to charge the same amount. >> What is in the public defender trust right now? >> Receive money. >> Hold on. Council pass.
>> I wasn't done. >> Oh, go ahead. >> No, it's okay. Just just >> Sorry. >> No, that's okay. So, so you don't you're not taking it from the other. >> We receive a few hundred dollars every month into the public defender trust. Um, and that comes from the municipal
court. So, we receive three checks, well, three payments from the municipal court every month. We receive the fines and fees, which is an anticipated revenue. We receive the parking adjudic parking offense adjudication act money, POA, that sits in the trust. And then we
we receive public defender money. So we we generate like a few hundred every month. I had money left over um that I had to use otherwise it goes to the state if you don't utilize it. So we offset it in 2025.
Um this year we don't have enough in the trust to offset. So >> council are you finished council? >> Yeah I I just if we can't do anything we should just consent and move on. >> Okay. Councilwoman, >> that let you know exactly how much is in
the trust and if that money can be can be >> we might we might have like a few thousand dollars. I can I can take it at the end of the year but um >> do do you know exactly how much you have because that seems like a lot of money
coming in with fines and fees, parking and adjustment. >> It's it's it's specific to public defender. So every month the court runs a report and there's like a small amount of your not your like if you pay a ticket a very
small amount goes to that public defender fund for for the township and then we get that small check every month. It has built up over the years. So >> what is that? >> It's like it's like a few hundred bucks a month we get. >> Okay. So,
>> so can we reduce this by 3,000 so that you have >> We'll have enough uh in there for 3,000. >> Okay. Yeah. So, then I'll I'll make a motion to reduce this by 3,000. >> Well, well, why don't you just wait till you have a bigger chunk towards next year? >> Why?
>> Because again, I don't you're nickel and dimeming on what we can and cannot do. He only has a little bit this year. Then you could have a bigger piece for next year. That's significant enough. This is going to do anything for you this year.
>> Well, I I think this is the taxpayers money and if we have some money in another all of it. So, if we can save the taxpayers this year, let's save them this year and hopefully we'll have more money in the city next year. Okay. >> And we'll do the same next year. >> So, I'm going to make a motion. Um I hope somebody will second it.
>> Motion to reduce this line item 200 by 3,000. You're good with that? Okay, then I'll second it. >> Okay, Councilwoman Caselino, >> before we go forward, I just want to make sure because my math isn't working in my head. If we have $35,000, we
reduce it by 32,000. >> No, no, no. We're reducing it to 32,000. We're reducing it by 3,000. >> Okay. So, you're reducing it by 3,000 to 32,000. You said that the way that the defender is paid is more than that on an annual
basis. No, no, no. Um >> I thought you said 33,600 >> 33,600, but I'm utilize I'll utilize trust money for public defender trust money. I regenerate, you know, $3 400 a month. So I would have enough to charge
off to public defender trust. >> You've got somewhere between$2 and $4,000. >> Yeah, I have a few thousand dollars right now. So we had 20 something thousand and when I >> Yeah, last year >> 25 budget. >> So last year. So, >> okay. So, this is not going to impair
>> no services. >> No, we'll be fine. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Take the vote. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yeah, I voted yes. >> Councilman Kakovia, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, yes. >> Council President, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> So, we can consent.
>> Okay. Consent on this page. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Okay. Let's go. CBP, did you want to did you have anything on this >> employment 54 insurance on the agenda? Yeah. 54, page
54. >> Okay. So, this is page 54, handwritten 54, page 59 in the PDF. >> Council Castelino has a question. >> So, I'm going to ask Mr. Tiaak to start off each of these because I appreciate uh Councilwoman Ruden. If there's
anything that could be reduced that you think could be reduced, can you please do that right out of the gate so we don't keep playing this? I I cannot stand. >> That would be really useful. >> It should come from you. >> It should come from >> Well, that's not fair because you guys make you guys make your cuts and then
>> and it's like, well, I don't want to cut I don't want to cut anything. I'll tell you right now >> from all these pages. I don't want to cut any % next time. So that's >> Well, no. That's again, this is unfair. You guys vote on it. If you I gave you a budget. If you want to cut it, talk
amongst yourselves. Don't even ask me then because I'm going to say I gave you a budget that you're just blaming me for it. Just you're making the cut and then blaming me for it. This is the same thing that we said last meeting and a couple of meetings is that
you continue to sit with one council person and make recommendations or >> I'm not saying you did today, but you have for several hours. So, you have >> and then that person comes in and makes all the recommendations for the cuts. We
don't call you. We don't harass you. Not all of us. And then we come in and somebody seems like, "Oh, wow. Let's look at what I can do. And again, the recommendation is fine, but if you're not going to recommend it or if you're not going to agree to it, then just like
you just said, don't agree to any of them and let us debate it out. >> Yes. because I I feel bad and I don't want to put you in the middle and and and to all my council colleagues and I get where you're going, but the only reason we have the advantage of cutting
this money is because we are so late in the year and we know the actuals to date. If if we were doing this budget in March, we could not make these cuts that we make because money, you know, we wouldn't know. We wouldn't have that
that crystal ball. So we do have actuals but again then we jeopardize you know getting fined. So with this line item you know it's 100,000 the recommended budget. We spent 50 you have 50 left. Do you need it for the rest of the year?
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. So let's counciloman Kokoviac I think had a question. >> Yeah. Just just very briefly. I I'm not looking to blame you for anything Mr. But you know this budget so much better than anybody else and you have a better understanding in most cases if not all
of them of the actual service or the function behind the number. So I'm just asking you just to rely on on on you and I think you may have said it before that you don't want to cut anything. >> I don't I don't the budget should be much higher. I'm sorry to say that
budget should be much higher. I've said it. I've said it. I said it last year when you cut millions out should have been higher. >> Say it now. >> So >> drifted by a particular >> let me explain unemployment compensation insurance and what this is. So this is
not paying the actual uh bi-weekly bill. This is funding the trust. Then the trust pays the bill. So I want to put $100,000 into the trust and then we will pay down the bill. So, right now we
have $6,000 left, I think, in the reserve. >> Okay. >> And then we're going to put another 50,000 in to get us through the rest of the year. Like, we started with zero. I would rather have money at the end of
the year in in in the reserve, but I think we're just going to basically break even here. So, Okay. >> Did CBA have anything on this? No. Okay. I move to consent. Second. Second. All
>> in favor? I lost. Okay. Consent. >> Okay. >> Now we're moving to page 61. General reliability handwritten 56. >> Did we do the JIP? Right. We did that. >> Okay. That's >> the comment up. Oh, we did we do this
>> 61. Well, I still have I have 56 that we didn't do the chip, but we did do the JIP. >> We didn't. >> Okay. >> So, the question about this one that was raised in the in public comment um the recommended budget amount is the
fullear assessment from um Central Jersey GIF. I had to think of the the new GIF. So we went up because we were originally in in the last year we were in the Garden State Municipal GIF. We got the renewal from them and it
was it was immense. So we went out and in the final hour we were able to get in with Central Jersey GIF. Still an increase. Still an increase. Um, we paid the first
assessment of $86,000 and then we have to pay the second assessment for August one of the same amount. Basically, um, the risk manager is is an individual that we appointed at
the beginning of the year, Mr. Carrera. Peter Carrera. And Peter acts as our sort of intermediary with the GIF. And he also helped uh you
know secure this contract um with Central Jersey GIF last year. Um but he is like our go-to go between between the GIF and their various professionals um whenever. >> He also advises us on our our local West
Orange Insurance Commission. He's he's here to help us risk and and dealing with lawsuits and and settlements and things of that nature. That's his that's his perform. >> So he's relied on heavily >> save us money. Yes.
>> Yes. >> Last question. >> Go ahead. >> No, I'm fine with the line item. Uh well, you know, it is what it is. But I on our list of budget drivers that you did when you introduced the budget,
>> I put insurance $49,424 increase. Is that this line or is that a different insurance line? >> I mean, this one's up a lot. I mean, >> that list you should add it to the list if it wasn't on. >> I'm sure it is. Yeah. I mean it's
>> cuz it's a budget driver. >> What are we saying? It's 326,000 more. Unemployment went up too. So >> Okay. Thank you, >> Council President. >> Yeah, we have two people. >> Thank you. Um I just have a question
regarding a risk manager. Do how do we identify that role? So, >> we put an RFP out for it. Um, >> is it part of the professionals at the end of the year, beginning of >> Yeah, we put an RFP out. It was one of
our uh requests for proposals and it's a professional service. >> We advertise yearly on it and um I believe last year he was dealing with applied. >> No, we we we got more but it was a much higher amount.
>> Yeah. So, the the risk manager, I don't want to say who it was, but the other one that that um applied, we actually we had three, I think, and they were percentages of our premium to the Central Jersey GIF, >> which was
>> significantly higher. I'm talking >> two um >> no, for for the new GIF, whatever the GIF would be. Okay. >> They wanted a percentage of the total premium, and it worked out to be like 60 or 70,000 for the two others that applied. So, he was significantly cheaper.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> Well, we're just on page 56. >> 56. >> Yeah. >> I move to consent. >> On the second question, >> unless there's no questions, I'll
second. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I posted. So, we're moving to page 63. Um, pan written 58, workers compensation insurance. Um, I think the question that was raised
>> was it's lower and it is. Um, >> so for workers compensation insurance, we pay claims similar to how we pay medical claims. So, we're self-insured for workers compensation. So this isn't this isn't just like a premium that
we're paying. Um so to date, you know, we've paid $217,000 in workers compensation claims for the year for 2026. >> So the end of July, June or July or not
at the end of June? >> It's through today. I just paid $5,17260 today. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> it's going to be effective tomorrow. >> Sometimes we have, you know, a check
register for $5,400. Sometimes you have a check register for $19,000, $24,000, $15,000, $46,000 back on uh June 9th. So we have a company CRC that manages
it. Um, and you have workers comp cases that go back, you know, 10 years, 15 years. >> Yeah. 163 left. >> So, my question was, what is the main driver for the workers compensation
claims? Do we have >> I mean, I I don't I don't know if I know the particular injuries, but it's really DPW, police, and fire, and that's going to be everywhere you go. Um, you know, they're the most dangerous jobs.
The thing that's going to happen to me is, you know, I I get a paper cut. You know, a police officer is, you know, potentially going to be really hurt on the job. So, they're our drivers. They always are. We do everything that we can
um to mitigate our workers compensation claims, but you're never going to eliminate them. >> There are guys on 280 that year. >> Central Jersey GIF. actually they've been excellent in providing training and trying to get in front of things for us
um to help us with that uh just as Garden State was was good too. But I feel like I've heard a lot more from Central Jersey GIF. What I will tell you is I attend the meetings every month and we have been
fortunate so far that we've had I don't believe we we've had maybe one claim total with Central Jersey GIF this year which is is quite um good and when we were introduced both Mr. Datiniaak and I said that they told us we're only one of 17 municipalities. They selected us. We
went out when we went out to the process last year. We we um we solicited five different u venues um GIFs private insurance and and there was a I think it was a private company somewhere. I forget the the fifth one. And Central
Jersey GIF was very selective in in picking us. We're only about the fifth or sixth largest municipality in the in the GIF. and they said, "We chose you because of your track record." They they they and they actually offered us a $300,000 less annual fee than the one
that we were currently at. So, our drivers are also the fact that our staff is is pretty well trained. They're conscientious. They understand what's going on, but accidents happen. And as as Mr. Detak said when you when you deliver public safety both in a a police department the size we have and a and a
career fire department and our TBW inherently unfortunately accidents occur and we have to we have to realize that happens to our staff so we take care of them where we can. So >> thank you for the explanation because that really adds a lot of color on it. Thank you.
>> Okay. >> Anybody consent >> consent? Can we consent with this? consent. >> Second in favor I >> I >> Next we're going to move to PDF page 65 handwritten page 60. This is the big
one. This is health insurance >> we actually are not asking for an increase for this year. Um and that's that's based off of um our performance from 2025
and uh we got a reduction actually in our stop-loss um uh insurance premium. So we went from you know 1.2 million to 1.1 million. Um so I kept the budget flat. This is a
trust. Um, I I know this is the the current fund piece of it, but what we really should be doing is keeping a healthy reserve in the trust, and we don't do that. We basically pay as we go um for health insurance. So, I I don't
have the benefit of of taking the good years and having that money socked away to make up for the bad years. So, we're just paying it as we go. Councilwoman Castleina, >> my question. What are the actuals for
line 37 and 38 so far? I'm just curious. I I get I hear what you're saying. Even if >> Sure. you want to build up the trust, I get that. I just curious what the actuals were. >> So, we're at 319,000 for the waiverss
>> for that's 319K >> and 38 38 the the prescription >> and line 39 also for the dental. >> So we're at 1.5
for prescription. >> Wow. >> So we're pretty much up there already. It's >> but again it's it's really one total. >> Yeah, I get it. It's one >> and then >> the the the hope is
so the way this works is that there obviously is the appropriation for all these things but then there's offsets. So we have the major offset listed 040 which is the negative 2.6 million that's what our employees are contributing.
>> Mhm. um you know it works out to be probably around 2,612,000 I think is is our projection for fullear payroll. Um that's what we call chapter 78.
>> The other and why we don't list it is that the library reimbures us. So we pay the library claims and then they pay us Yeah. >> you know right back. Um and and then we have >> about the debt
>> that excess policy. So that what that excess policy that we are paying $1.1 million for per year. What that does is when someone goes over $200,000 in claims, we're going to
continue to pay the claims and the Sunlife policy is going to pay us back. So, let's say, you know, it's an $80,000 bill for someone that they're 80,000 over their their max.
Maybe a month later, two months later, we're going to get a check from Sunlife for or PMA companies, whatever they are now, for $80,000. So, then that goes back in. >> You're talking about the stop-loss. >> Yes. Yes.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. My last you got the >> well so so you have the dental and then I have one other question about >> our switch that we did this year with the coming out of uh self-insured.
>> Yeah. So the well it's a question about the dental. >> Yeah. First with the well the dental you have 275. So you still want to keep that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. It's it's it all adds up to the number that we need. But as of 331, I assume dental you paid out already something towards it yet.
>> Yeah, we've paid 191 or whatever it was. >> Okay. >> 119. >> Forgetting the name. I looked it up before. Yeah. >> I pay it in bunches. Honestly, I I pay it in bunches. I >> They're pretty lax. Delta Dental. I
don't I don't pay it every month. I I pay it in quarters. So, >> and and then just you know we switched it to not from out of the uh self-insured. So, how does all this with this balance you want to keep right into
the our new system? >> So, we stayed pretty conservative because we had the tail that we had to pay. We had to pay that extra month of Ben card. >> The reimbursements, the initial reimbursements take 180 days. After that, it's every 90 days.
So, we're not going to see our first round of reimbursements until the fall. Um because we we just started the program in April or Yeah. So, we'll see what we get back in for prescription drugs. Um I I will say that
paying the claims so far seems to be better than just paying the benefit card. And we knew that would happen because we knew that we were paying more premium than what was being paid out by Benard in terms of claims. We knew that that was a fact.
So I think it was the right decision. And again, this this addresses a question that came from um >> Mr. Goldzman about, you know, the the future. Listen, I can't predict the future. I I know that GLP1s are more and
more popular because they're now finding different use cases for them. What we've been able to do with GLP1s is rather than being stuck with a particular brand, we
can control that now. So, we say you're going to go with Zepbound because Zepbound is going to get us the most reimbursement from the manufacturer. the rebates. That was the other thing, too. Benard was getting the rebates and never passing along any of that savings.
So now those reimbursements that we're going to get, we're going to tailor our program to get us the biggest bang for the buck. As long as we are offering a drug in that class, we're in compliance with our contracts. So again, that now
we have that flexibility. Now we're in the driver's seat for for the you know the the drugs that we offer the formulary that we offer. >> Just a request when we get to the fall and you get that reimbursement back and looking at all this can we talk about it in meeting?
>> Yeah, we'll tell you if it's what we expected or it wasn't as much as we thought. >> Um >> program we trans. >> So we originally were were privately insured with with Benard. we paid a premium every month, so we knew what we were going to pay. And now we've we've
gone into the self-insured um for prescriptions. So again, a a general overview of benefits for the public. Medical claims are self-insured for our active employees and our
retirees under 65. So we get a check register. You know, I'll I'll tell you sort of what that looks like. We get a check register every week that says you must put this money in the
account and then we're going to come in and ac it out. Meritane that is. So my So on March 3rd I got to register for $213,000 for medical claims. So I have to make
sure that there's 213,000 in that trust. But then the next week, March 10th, it was only 84,000 only, I say. But that's how it works. We pay the claims. >> Yeah. >> Along with that, and what we need to carefully monitor is Meritane to do all
of this for us, there's a fee involved. There's an administrative fee. That's the dark side of being self-insured is that, you know, we as an entity >> can't administer. >> We can't do it ourselves. And when I used to be in the city of Orange, I
actually had one person that did retiree prescription benefits. That's all she did. She would they would come in with the receipts and she would check and she would call, you know, it was like a full-time job and it was just for a small subset of retirees that they did
prescription benefit reimbursement for. So we rely on meritane to process all of this and make sure that the doctors are adhering to the contracts that that are you know set forth in the plan. And then we have a third party broker um
Fairview I always forget their name Fair View that is also a part of this and that administrative fee that we're paying to Meritane is is going to them as well. So that that's that's the tricky part about this is that we're
paying the claims, but we're also paying someone to administer this. Um, and it's something that I'm mindful of when I look at the bills and sometimes, you know, can floor me a little bit, the administrative fees, being totally transparent about all this. That's the
medical claims. We used to be, like I said, with prescription benefits, we used to be fully insured and we just paid a benefit card. And like I said, we were paying more premium than the claims that were being paid out. They were making money on us. Then they were getting rebates for GLP1 drugs and you
know, other drugs too, but GLP1 the big one and they weren't passing that along. We saw an opportunity to again get the rebates, hopefully pay less because the claims activity was less than the premium and to control our destiny somewhat with the
formulary um that we offer and taking advantage of drugs that have higher rebates. Um that's prescription. Now, when you talk about our 65 and over retirees, that is a more traditional
premiumbased plan. We work with the Metro Health Insurance Fund. There's a bunch of municipal members. A lot of the members do their their medical and their prescription through there. We only do our Medicare Advantage plan through them. Um, so our retirees 65 and over,
they're in a Medicare Advantage plan. We pay uh you know roughly 3.1 million for those those retirees. Um we have Delta Dental. It's it's a premium type plan um based on your your
coverage type and and we we pay that every month. Um we also have RAMP health. Uh it's um how would you call it? sort of like in-person health services for for our employees. They
have smoking sessation programs, uh blood pressure management, stress management, um you know, weight management programs. >> What is that called? >> Uh ramp health. >> They're like wellness coaches. >> Wellness coaching. >> Set on here. >> It's mixed in.
>> It's within. Yeah, it's it's it's within um their cost is 84,000. So it's >> Do we know whether I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Do we know whether employees are taking advantage of that? >> Yes, we do. Actually, we have good data from them. Um, we've had great participation. They come here every
Friday to town hall, but they're >> actually more than that. They they send us a schedule. They're here three days a week at the various different departments. Same the same representative. He's he'll show up at the police department 5:00 a.m. the DPW at 5:30
a.m. Um, all the different fire stations. He that >> Yeah. They go everywhere. Yeah, >> he he he meets with he goes to the same stops all the time. If somebody's off, that's the only reason they wouldn't wouldn't see him. >> But he's he's here at least three days a week. >> Wow. >> If not more. >> Yeah. They give us data about
participation in the programs and um they give us helpful flyers, you know, every week. And >> yeah, >> all kind of go for a thousand a year. >> Yeah. Again, they're going to every department and, you know, dealing with
all of our employees and, you know, you can use them or you can like I do, hey, how you doing? You know, how are your kids doing? >> Take care. Uh, you know, I I don't use it because I'm afraid he's going to tell me my blood pressure's high and >> it just confirms it. But we do have
employees that use it. And it's also beneficial to, you know, our stop-loss policies because the insurance companies want to see that we're doing something to help our employees. So, you know, that that helps with the stop-loss uh better participation. Uh
>> they also they also provide um um competitions amongst the staff. So like like a weight loss competition, um blood pressure monitoring competition, walking competition, and and you know, they offer nominal prizes, but it's something it's it's just more of an incentive to
and to motivate. That's really what it comes down to. So >> as well, Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Um I would like to look at line item 37, employee uh health benefit waiver reimbursement. A health benefit
waiver is an agreement whereby the employee declines to take our um health insurance. >> Correct. >> What is the practice in private industry? >> I mean private industry can do what they want. They can they can offer a waiver.
They can not offer a waiver. They they can do what they want. >> Okay. And from my my reading about this, if you could confirm this, this is not mandated by New Jersey state law. >> Correct. Is that correct? >> You do not have to have a waiver program if you don't want to.
>> Okay. And I could not find anything in the policy handbook um in regard to this as well. And I believe that it is not regulated by collective bargaining as well. I couldn't tell you off the top of my
head if the waiver program is referenced in any of the collective bargaining agreements and and we don't have labor counsel here either. Um I'm surprised it's not in the manual. I thought it was um but the practice the
long-standing practice here has been if you were hired post 2010 and I don't know the exact date but post 2010 you received 50% of the savings. So, if the plan is $50,000 and you would
contribute $10,000 through your chapter 78, net 40, you would get 50% of that. And we do have some legacy employees, a lot that receive 50% of the savings. >> Is there anything in a contract that
requires that? Because what I'm looking at in terms of the state law after 2010 is that it is capped out at 5,000. >> Right? So that's I was going to get to the the second group of employees. So anybody hired post200
they would receive up to a maximum of $5,000 after doing the calculation. >> But from my reading of that, that is not having to do with the time of of hiring. The law changed after 2010. it. I've been in a bunch of towns and
the law dictates your grandfathered in employees and employees hired after. I I've I've looked at this a lot and I'm I'm pretty confident that we're applying it correctly here just as I've seen it applied in this town. >> This is an area where the township could
see significant savings if we did not if we did not offer this. >> So, >> well, that's a contractual. >> No, that's what I'm asking. If it's not contractual, if it's not in our policy, why are we why are we spending a half a million dollars every year?
>> So I >> I would say >> because they have a spouse or a domestic partner that is and you cannot be off of it unless you can prove that. But there are many people who don't need it and they don't take it and they don't
need to be paid out according to New Jersey state law. So, I understand that we have already paid out the first three quarters. Um, what legally what would it take to stop this um payout? We don't have anything in our
contracts as far as I know and I would like that to be to be double checked. If there's nothing in our contracts, if there's nothing in a um union agreement and and I did not see anything in the policy manual, what what can be done to
stop this >> past practice to deal with >> and past practice is not necessarily best practice. We are spending a half a million dollars a year and and the people who've received this have already received three/4ers of their payout.
This is an unnecessary expense for a township that's in the hole. >> Well, that's I think that's a legal question. >> I think so. Yeah, that's that's definitely >> that's what I'm asking. >> A legal question. My my my other commentary about it is that um and like
our attorney said, you will get people that would take the insurance. I'm sure if we did away with the waiver program, even if their spouse has insurance, um they may choose to take it because hey, >> they become they become a secondary and
it's a draw on the township. >> Yeah. And you have no control over that. you know, it it takes, you know, one person unfortunately to get cancer and then, you know, we're looking at a $200,000 spend on one person. And um so
it's it's not as cut and dry as saying, okay, you would remove the waiver payments and then no one would sign up for the insurance, so you wouldn't see any increase in expenses. Um >> in your experience, do other municipalities in New Jersey offer this?
>> Yes. Yeah. Most schools offer waiver payments. Not everyone. Not everyone, but but many do because they understand that it's better to pay the 5,000 than to potentially, you know, especially like if you're and and we're we're our
situation is different because we are self-insured. So in in and again explaining the self-insured if if I took the health benefits there is a calculated cost to single member spouse parent child and family
coverage but that's not necessarily what that is going to cost us. Now, if you're in a traditional um premiumbased plan like state health benefits for instance, I don't even know what state health family is now. It might be $75,000.
If you're in the plan and you're in for 12 months, I know I'm going to spend $75,000 on you here. If I take the coverage and I don't go anywhere, I don't go to the doctor, I don't do anything, you know, there's a very small carrying cost for me, but I essentially
would cost the township nothing. And and and via chapter 78, you'd probably make money off of me. >> Okay. So, you're saying that the payout should be 5,000 >> for anybody hired after 2010. Yes. But
the the um payout is really has to do with when the when the health benefit was filed, not when the employee was hired. So health benefits that were um given after 2010 should only if there if
there's a waiver given, it should only be 5,000. >> It's true. No, it's we go by the the the date of hire after 2010. And that is how it's been applied in every single municipality I've ever been in. >> So, can I ask that we hold off on this
and that we do legal research? Because what I'm what I'm seeing is that after 2010, the cap out was at 5,000. How many employees are taking advantage of this this waiver? Oh, >> it's over a hundred.
>> Okay. But again, I don't I don't want to make a statement that makes it seem like what we're doing is illegal. No, I didn't say illegal. And that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying just just check this. So, you're saying that of our employees about a hundred of them
>> 100 getting waivers. >> 100 are getting waivers. Okay. And does that equal half a million dollars? >> Yeah. Yeah. Because >> but some are getting some are getting way more than >> than 5,000.
>> So then that doesn't that doesn't add up. Can we see the actual numbers of how many people are actually getting waiverss and what >> we can we can provide we do it through payroll so of course we could provide the list I don't we're not going to do it publicly
um but we can provide the list internally or you can look at the list internally sure >> what percent okay saying that >> what percentage of the of the payout are more than 5,000 >> that that I couldn't tell you off the top of my head I really couldn't I I
could get the the number of those that are pre-210 and what that dollar amount is and the number that are post 2010 and what that dollar amount. We we could do that. We could do that. >> And then if that if the law could be checked to see whether those who were hired prior to 2010 are entitled to
getting 50% payout. >> Yeah, I I'm I'm pretty confident in it, but we will we will ask um Antelli Cancer to to apply. >> So I still have the course. So, I would like not to not to approve this until we we have that information. I see a
savings here and I think that we should we should look into this further. There are three categories. >> Councilwoman, if you want that you have to take a you have to make a motion for >> Okay. Um, I make a motion to request that legal look into whether or not
employees who were hired before 2010 are entitled to larger health benefit waiverss than if they're entitled to 50% of a health benefit waiver. >> I I think your motion is to reduce the
budget by an amount. We can look into it without it. I'm I'm looking for a legal answer to this, not to reduce it until we have the information. >> You don't need a motion to ask for the research. Um, okay. But but I can tell you that >> if you start trying to reduce benefits
that have already been >> paid out in the past, you're invited a lawsuit. But there if there is nothing that is in and I also would like I would also like to um have the information about whether there's anything in the pol excuse me
>> council woman >> if there's anything in the policy manual that that authorizes this or if there is anything contractually that authorizes this. Past practice is not enough. There's no legal grounds for just past
practice. I'd like to know whether or not it's justified at this point. >> Mr. >> Moving on. Um I would just like to know what >> you made a motion. >> Just you just said you don't need a you don't need you don't council to ask for
legal advice. Yes. >> I made a note and I >> No, that this this council wants to do that because there's control legal costs. >> So this is a half a million dollar spending going forward. So it it would
save a substantial amount of money. >> A government employee hate the township. >> It's not >> this isn't a popularity contest. This is whether or not this is contractually required because it certainly is not required by the state.
>> Are they here next week? Let's see. Do we have >> Okay, wait. I have to There is a motion on the floor. >> Okay. >> Is there a second to this motion? I'm sorry. What is the motion? >> It was a very long-winded mo motion. So,
I have legal look into Can you repeat? >> Yes. >> I would I would like legal to look into whether or not um it is legally required to give 50% health um 50% of the dollar amount of
the cost for health for those who opt for health a health care waiver. I would all because according to the law, it seems like after 2010, it was capped at $5,000 per individual. And what Mr. Mr. Diniac
is saying is that what it sounds like is that literally half of our employees are opting out >> because he said 100 people are opting out. >> Hundreds of employees. >> Yeah, we have more than >> 300 full-time employees. >> So, a hundred are opting 100 are opting
out. I'm just asking if that if that is legally required and I would also like to put on the floor the idea that if it is not contra I would also like to know whether or not it's contractually required in our policy manual or in any
of the contracts that that um >> that we labor contracts. >> Sorry. >> Okay. Is there a second? I didn't get all that. I'm going to have to review the video. Um, I'm not going to second that, but I I do
have a question after. >> Okay. Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Now we could talk about it. >> Yeah. Thank >> Okay. So So here's my issue with that. On face value, you have no problem with asking them a question, but you made it
sound like you want hours and hours of research, which are we getting an opinion letter? So again, we get into the cost of our labor council on these on these, you know, running down a
rabbit hole sometimes and and and driving up our bills. Now, to your point, if if if you're right with your with your questioning and it could turn into something, I have no problem with the opinion, but is there any kind of just quick answer we could get as
opposed to hours and hours of research? which I would assume Mr. uh uh Rivera would be able to I'm I'm not opposed to a him answering a quick answer, but I am opposed to a long len lengthly uh chase.
>> Perhaps it' be more prudent if Mr. Datiniac could quantify exactly how many or what percentage of to see if it's worth spending the time and money to research. Go ahead. >> Thank you, Council President. Uh the implication that Mr. Tiniac just made
was that this is common practice in several municipalities that he's previously worked in. You've only been here for two years. Has the law changed in the past two years? >> No, the law changed in 2010 regarding >> Yes. So that would mean that if you have
been doing things incorrectly for the past two years that you've been here and that you were doing things incorrectly in your previous employment as well. um then that would be kind of a serious problem for you in your capacity as CFO. >> Agreed.
>> So why are we then taking time when we know that he is the professional that he has been practicing according to the law? Why are we even entertaining something that we know again quoting you is a rabbit hole? Like we're wasting
time doing things that have no have no merit and and we need to stop. >> Yes, Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Living Livingston, Milbour, Maplewood have all stopped this. This is not common practice all over the place
to offer this type of of benefit. And I think that it is a reasonable thing as a council member and as as as the council body to look into whether or not this is contractually required. This is not a popularity contest. We're not here to be
popular to people who decide to opt out. We're here to decide whether or not this is a good expenditure of our taxpayers money. >> Councilman Kovia. >> Yeah. I just I I I would like if it's if it's a a reasonable economical
expenditure to determine some of these data so that we can make a more informed choice. I just want to I just want to remind everybody this is a riskmanagement tool for the municipality. So what you do if if you
can get them to give up their coverage, you potentially can save a lot of money particularly because a lot of the people who are here were before hired before 2010 and they tend to have a lot more uh health care costs. So, you drive them
away. And I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen because maybe we can we can find a uh if things go well, you can find a lower number than 50%. But if we drive those people away from the waiver, they are perfectly allowed
to get the insurance and make themselves the primary. Not even the secondary, the primary. We have very good insurance. Depending on what the relative decision is between them and their spouse or significant other, we we potentially
open a big can of worms uh by by this. But I I do think we need to get the data and the information if we can. It just we may be opening a Pandora's box. >> Mr. Datin, something that you can do
some kind of risk assessment for us. So >> yeah, >> risk assessments is is difficult. I think >> let let me let me commit to a couple things. I think >> obviously getting the answer from our labor attorney. This should not require
researches. Are we applying 2020 2010 uh waiver legislation correctly? It should be a yes or no. and we come back to you because again being said publicly I would rather come back with an answer to to assure the public that what we're
doing here is is legal. Um, number two, uh, I think we'll look into the the the mechanism upon which we've been utilizing the waiver, whether it's maybe there's something in the code. I don't know something that was adopted
years ago. I don't know. I think Greg, we should we should find that out. Figure that out. >> I'm looking sort of on the fly here. I don't see an ordinance. Um, so it may have been by resolution year over year. It may be contractual. these are this is what we got to figure. >> So, so we will look into that that's
definitely uh worth doing. And then the the last thing I will say um yes, we will give you the breakdown of the pre20200 and the post210 just just back of the napkin I would say if you're pre2010 and you've been getting a pretty healthy waiver and now
the waiver goes away. I would take the coverage because the chapter 78 is going to be less than what you were >> y >> getting paid in the waiver. So it makes sense just take >> yeah just take the health coverage. So
>> I just like to make one comment too hard to do that assessment. >> I know you want to compare to other towns. We don't know what the >> there is an expenditure of funds. It's not like we're going to save the whole half a million dollars. running Kirk Cole, >> right? With with the claims potentially >> our school board, you know, our school
board operates this way as well. Um, which is probably, you know, why, you know, you know, unfortunately they had a lot of people that they let go. >> So, I know we got to look into these things and see if we could have better practices. But, you know, I I know you always
smirk when I say best uh past practice cuz I sat through many times and many cases that came back um where we've lost the argument because of past practice. So, that's all you know I just it's something that you have to consider. I'm
not opposed as I said to have a quick questioning a quick look. >> Yeah. >> And we'll quantify the split. >> But is that what we're voting for to do? A quick look right now? voting on her motion also. There's no court look involved.
>> Yes. >> I think I think the only thing that legal has to look into is whether or not we are applying the 2010 law correctly. I think the rest of it is goes to Mr. Diniac to decide to let us know what the facts are, what the data is in terms of
how many people are getting it and at what at what price and is there any contract or um handbook that that >> that puts that in place. Right. >> So it's one question and more questions
for Mr. Dennia. >> That's not the motion. >> No. So >> okay. Well, I'm going to retract the earlier motion and make this as a motion that the one I would like one legal question to go whether or not we are we
are applying the 2010 ruling correctly. That's it. >> Okay. >> That's the only expense of Has to >> He has to he has to resend his second. >> Send my second. >> I'll rescen that question. >> Can I ask clarification on that? Because I I think the what it sounds like is the
ultimate answer is is anybody hired since 2010 being paid more than $5,000 of this waiver. I don't think you need legal advice on that. I would defer to Mr. >> No, we know that that is the case, but the the question is should whether should that be happening?
>> That's the question. >> If it's not in any if it's not in any contract or policy >> or is it past practice, we'll hold it up. legally obligated if it's not in a contract or part of a statute or a code
section. However, whatever just said >> can lose in litigation on past practice. And that's what I said before. You take something away from somebody in the mid grieve it >> the game >> and they've been here for 20 years
working and they've been getting this benefit all along. I guarantee you're going to lose in litigation on that issue. But we will look into >> put questions >> the laws being applied appropriately since 2010 >> and report that.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. On that second motion, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kakoviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. So, the I think I still have the
floor. I just wanted to understand what these different categories are. We have um I I know that that um 34 I think you sort of explained that um employee excess payments that if if costs go over
that we we cover that. Mhm. >> I'm not really sure why we do that, but um >> because because we have to um ultimately we are responsible for all of
the medical claims that are incurred, whether it's 10 million or 100 million. We have policies in place that say we have individual max coverages uh uh max
exposures of 200,000 then we have like an overall total exposure >> so that you know cost overruns just don't totally bankrupt us. So when we do meet those excesses, we have to pay, but then Sunlife PMA, they're going to pay
us for the the excess. That's basically when we're making claims against that policy. >> Okay. So just so we will be reimbursed for that amount. But can you explain to me what the difference is between line item 34, the employee access payments,
and then 90, which is other HB claims, and 95, which is other administration HB claims. That's another $150 right there. >> Yeah. Um the again, like I wish I didn't
have all these sub accounts because it's >> messy. It it's it's basically that we need the whole 17 million because I have the the breakdown. Um you know the I consider it just all part of of the budget.
>> So when you look at 90 and 95 are those also excess claims? >> No. >> So where what category should that actually go into? >> They really should just probably sit in the employee HB claims. But again, I see it more as the total
the 17,8,362. I don't >> Well, since we're going to be doing this, we're waiting a bit, I I assume, to get the answer from legal. Can you merge? >> Well, I don't think he's going to answer you tonight, right? >> No, I got to go through with Mark >> and your research. It's not going to be
tonight or not. So, >> can we merge this so that we can, you know? >> Yeah. Well, like we did with it, maybe I'll just make them much more simplified into retirey health benefit claims, Medicare Advantage, Part B, and
prescription. Like, I'll I'll consolidate these. Still going to be 17 million 88 8,000, but I'll consolidate them. >> And I just want to understand, and then I'll I'll let this go. What sort of claims are being denied that we then have to pick up? because we we have also
for retiree reimbursements another 53,000. >> So so it happens pretty frequently. Meritane will deny a claim and then there's a an appeal process and and like I said sometimes like months, years can go by on these things
and eventually they get settled. There's even been times, Pete, right, where we've been asked to to rule on a on a particular claim as as the employer. um it it does come to us sometimes. So
you got to understand we have you know hundreds almost like a thousand members consisting of retirees, active employees. There are tons and tons of claims that happen every single week. Um and
>> we have out of network claims, we have in network claim. It's that's why we have a company that manages all this. So, >> so the sky's is the limit. Basically, >> the the sky's is the limit. Essentially, we're we have to pay it, but that's why we have this pretty expensive policy,
this $1.1 million excess policy that that cuts that stops the bleeding. >> And for for line item 27 for retirey HB reimbursement, has anything been spent? >> No, but again, it's all part of the 17
million. So, where is that actually going to go if that's not if that's not used? Where would that move into? >> It can go into, you know, the the the top line. Um, yeah. >> Okay. Because for the past two years,
there have been no uh H uh HB retirement, >> right, >> payouts. So, it seems like it's it's a >> right. But we spent there.8 8 million um in total. So, I'll consolidate the lines
and make them go away. >> Would you need the full amount? >> All right. So, you're going to get back to us with this page. >> Yeah. We'll get the opinion from the attorney and the breakdown of the waiverss pre-210, post200, and I'll I'll
consolidate these. >> Thank you. But again, I I said it in the beginning of this and I it's worth it's worth saying like the responsible fiscally responsible thing would be to increase this budget and start building a reserve
in the trust. Like where we're at right now is is is just paying the claims and you know living paycheck to paycheck essentially. But we really we really need to increase that appropriation um
so that you know we we can get through the really tough years. >> Okay. >> That's not something we're going to do today or this year. No, it's you know who's ever left standing next year to
start thinking about you know building up the reserve. >> Yeah. Just put in another line at it. Looks like you opening up a bunch of line items on this page. Just >> throw another one in. >> Council person. >> Yes. >> Cab. >> Yes. See, Bab,
>> come on up. >> Did uh you guys are already asked the question about the last two 090 and 095. Uh our question was what what are those and what's in that and so that would be helpful. Um CFO said earlier that one of the
issues he was facing was with drug reimbursements. We weren't getting that forwarded to us. Um be curious to know were we entitled to those funds and just be be interested to know about that.
>> That's a good question. Yeah. So, I I asked that question too when I found out that Benard, our our previous um um prescription uh insurance company was getting those and I said, "There's
nothing in the contracts to like return some of that." And and no, the contract that we have with Benard, we do not get anything back to us. There are other plans out there that operate and and I've I've been having discussions with them. um municipally focused
sort of HF GIF type plans where you do get uh a set premium so you know you're paying the same amount per month and then you are getting the benefit of the drug rebates almost like um like a return of premium or a dividend I should
say like uh if anybody has New Jersey manufacturers you love getting the dividend check you get a dividend back um bas bas on rebates. So there are plans that exist like that or they've they've sort of just been created and again you know that's that's the Brian
call. Um so that stuff does exist but the Ben Bennard and I looked at the the contract terms we were not entitled to anything. Um we barely even got the claims data. We had to extrapolate based on the
health care claims to say these are the drugs that are going to go along with the diagnosis to say this is really our spend from from a spend perspective. They wouldn't even release that. So, um I'm happy to be out of the Bennett
um program. Again, nice to know what it is per month, but we're in the driver's seat now. So, and we're continuing to look to the future. >> Sure. >> Like when we looked at sort of these different plans.
>> Okay. I guess one that then begs the question, was >> was that an oversight and in the contract that should have that language have been in there that would have entitled it? Could we even got I mean >> I we probably couldn't have gotten it
because I don't think that's really a standardized practice. Um, I I have a lot of experience with state health benefits and you don't get anything back from them. Um, in the this the few times that I've had like private insurance plans, we didn't get anything back from
prescription. Um, I just think it's there's so many more rebates now for the GLP1 drugs and that is like becoming the medication. um you know our our medication drivers are are GLP1s
um you know MS drugs and again I'm not saying anybody's names I think I'm okay in saying all this but uh and then rheumatoid arthritis like that's our major driver of drugs like you know a statin cost us nothing >> about five there's about five or six drugs that are are really the big
drivers that we've been looking at and as as Mr. Tiniac's point out with the formulary and what we're looking at. Um, we try to make keep those costs down. One of the things we we meet with our our u our broker once a once a month at least um to go over all these costs and
if they see trends and things of that nature, we discuss that to see what we can do to even save our costs more. And that was that was the biggest consideration we had when we were selecting this program was that >> we just saw what the benefit was for us to say I I think we how much was the reduction from Venard? about a million dollars, whatever we
>> when you factor in like a full year of reimbursements. Sure. >> But that that's that's what we're chasing. Like if we're going to be if our members are going to be using the GLP1s, let's get as much back as we can. And that's that's been the goal. >> Got it. Um
I guess this whole discussion begs another question. the the question of, you know, the town is currently self-insured versus policies and um has anybody done a uh
analysis of the comparison of how we would fall if you know if we were to have policies and I know you said that >> you know that but I think a study would probably be over a longer period of time
than just the past year Right. So I mean our brokers sort of shop the plans. Um so we get we get different options and different costs there. But if you really are are talking about policy change we
would have to go back to the unions and dramatically maybe is not the right word to use but we would have to revise what we offer because now it's like it's based on this equal to or better. So, it's like we're always dealing with the
same standard plan with co-pays and you know, we have to get them the unions to agree or or maybe just offer something different. Um whether you know and we do offer the the high deductible
plan. I'll tell you no one takes it. We tell the young people, which I say as I'm an old person now, we tell the young people like, "Hey, listen, take the high deductible plan. Pay less than chapter 78. You don't you don't need to do this." You know, I I spoke about flex
spending last time. We don't get members to take us up on it. Government employees have heard from other government employees or their parents, take take the best plan because if you don't, they'll take it away and you'll never get it again. So, we've had a
really difficult time migrating employees over to to plans that are uh more economical. But getting back to what you said about, you know, different policies and putting different plans into place, yes, that that could be the key to really reducing
the expenses. But again, we we have to get the unions to agree to it. >> Agree. But it's more than that. It's it's comparing having policy versus our current approach of self insurance and >> Oh, you mean like going the private?
Yeah. I'm I'm always I'm always keeping that in the back of my mind. Like there's if there's an opportunity to save us money going forward and have it be sustainable, I will pursue it. Like I take meetings all the time about health insurance. I talk about health insurance
all the time because it is the major cost driver. It's salaries and wages, health insurance, the pension and the debt. That's what drives all of our budgets. >> Understood. >> So tens of millions of dollars insurance for the next. The question becomes,
should there be a an assessment done to compare current practice of being self-insured against what would our cost have been if we had in gone with a policy? >> Yeah. Again, you know, we do have the the I'm sorry,
>> didn't you do that at the presentation? >> Yeah, to a certain extent with the prescription. Yeah. But look in total health insurance, you know, active retiree Medicare that sort of like global um look, we rely on our broker to
to do that, but again, it's more in the sense of of shopping it. Um I don't know if I have the bandwidth to do it myself. I don't know the industry as as well as I think you would need to to do that. So again, I do rely on the
broker. It it is something that, you know, we can address with them. I'm >> sure there's a cost associated with that. Um but when you're dealing with the kind of numbers that we're expending >> Sure. >> or spending every year, it might be a a well worth project to.
>> Yeah. And and again, there's there's there's other there's other vendors out there um you know, that we we could look into. Um there's always competing vendors to say, "Hey, maybe we can do a study like this." Um but we'll definitely bring it to our existing
broker and and see what they can generate for us. >> Okay, we have to um >> Yeah, sorry. >> Pick a date. >> Thank you. >> So now we still need to eight and nine. >> Well, we're not going to do seven. >> No, we can never seem to finish. So
Okay. So is Monday the 27th. Does that work? Yeah. I have jury duty. We have them done by four o' possibly jewelry. I could call in on Friday. >> Great excuse to get out of it. What
time? >> Oh, it's hard. >> What? >> Can I >> So, does July 27th, please? Oh, >> can I get an answer? >> July 27th. >> Monday, Monday. Um,
>> yes. Can we start earlier? >> She has jury duty. >> Well, I'm not sure. I have to pulling on Friday to see if they want to commit. >> And I can't start earlier than 5, >> right? And we should be done because we should have been done tonight. But yeah. >> Yeah, I think we still have >> We'll put up We'll do it for five. We'll
set up a uh >> Council President. Yes, council. >> Uh, Councilman Koviaak, >> I will be far far away on >> Oh, that's right. Good for you. >> So, just make sure I can get in on Zoom, >> please. >> Did Mr. Fagen hear that?
>> We'll make We'll make sure that. >> Okay, >> we'll make sure. >> Thank you, Mr. Smallville. >> I appreciate >> on my vacation. >> Did you ask me a question? >> Oh, no. We're gonna have to set you up for Zoom or someone on Monday. >> Yes, we can handle that. >> Make us another time. I mean, if you're
away, you know, we get >> I'm gone the whole week. So, okay. >> Do you want it at 5? So, 5:00 good for you. Is that too early? >> Yeah, that that happy hour IP. The Yeah, the happy hour starts at 5. So, >> it's okay. You'll get your questions,
right? You could even send us your questions in advance and we'll make sure we get you do guns first. >> So, so council president. >> Yes. >> I see. Mr. Dovi, I know you two are leaving. We're gonna do our next meeting at on July 27th at 5:00 pm. So this way
you know in case >> we will send you out. >> Just want to get that on the record. >> Thank you. >> We have to do central mailing and non-consent items from previous meetings. >> Yes, Councilman.
>> Do we need to adjourn our budget meeting? >> Yes, >> we do. >> We do. Make a motion. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> I I I need a turn. >> Well, >> we need a quick break.
>> I'll take a break when I take a break. >> Who made the motion and second it? >> I think Councilman. >> Okay. >> I think you got to wait to just wait.
No motion. So, we're gonna maybe we can move this one. Have a little discussion about permit. >> We might be able to move this forward. >> You didn't have a lot, right?
>> I didn't have much. They're not Did we do anything about the radon system? >> Right on. That's that was a that was a action item for Mr.
Smearalda. >> We're going to ask him. Hi. >> Everyone got a revised agenda. By the way, >> what was R? I didn't I didn't have anything on R. >> R was revised, but I didn't have anything on R on the on the initial.
>> Were you talking about R >> on the third page? There's after Q you deleted. >> The executive session. >> Oh, that was the executive session. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know what that Okay, great. >> for the judge.
>> Okay. Oh, so Okay. So, >> what? The Redwood School one. >> Oh, no. The Yeah, that was >> I'm sure >> the version I was supposed What are we doing? Where's Where is everybody?
>> Can we get our >> colleagues? I'm sorry. I'm gonna get lost. Okay. >> All right. You're good. >> Either we take official break or we don't break. >> Okay. Um this is also the last
council woman. >> We're live. Go. >> We're gonna get started. >> What? CFL >> and public comment. >> Oh, you know it's 7:04. >> We're going to get started. Everyone,
please be seated. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. >> I have to open the meeting. >> Okay. >> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public
Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on October 30th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilman Kakovia, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present.
>> Council President Scarpa, >> present. >> The pledge of allegiance was done earlier this evening. Public comment. >> Okay, go ahead, Mr. Fitz. >> Thank you, Council President. And I just like to point out briefly during the budget hearing it was mentioned that one
of the health promotional uh programs was an employee weight loss program. I don't know who won that but I can tell you who did not win that. >> I wish I were the lucky winner. >> Uh I'd like to start >> uh
I'd like to start tonight just to remind everyone that on our website there is a details about uh becoming a West Orange firefighter. uh fire department is is hiring and there are all details there online. Uh in addition to uh uh
information uh we are also hiring school crossing guards and this information is online and you can to make it convenient to apply. You can email your application in. So please check out the website for both the firefighter firefighter hiring
details and crossing guard hiring details. We are in desperate need of crossing guards. uh it speaks to uh public safety and it helps alleviate the burden on our police department. So, if you're at all interested, please check it out. Um we have the uh council
connection open office hours coming up July 30th, 6:00 to 7:00 p.m. No appointment is ever necessary. We also have the uh mayor's open office hours coming up uh Thursday, August 6th uh at the mayor's office here in town in
council in town hall council uh the mayor's office. Um and again, no appointment is ever necessary. We have some information posted on our website about uh home improvements in Essis County for Essis County residents. Of course, West Orange residents uh would
qualify for that. Uh if your home is needed in need of repair, there might be some grant money available to you. So, please check it out uh to see the uh details at on our website, westtor.org. Um the um long-standing tradition of the
lefty bowl and charity golf tournament is coming up on Monday, August 3rd at the Rock Spring Golf Club. Uh this information has been posted to our social media so you can find this flyer and find out more information. Um
the new ebike laws took effect on I believe Sunday that was July 19th. Now there are new requirements and I've been pointing this out for the last several council meetings um and because ebikes are becoming a uh uh an increasing
problem with accidents and we don't want anything to happen. So please familiarize yourself. Um, and I do understand that although registration is required that the fees will be waved till January 1st, 2027. So, please take
advantage of that and uh remember uh that uh the police department can enforce it, but uh adherence is more important sometimes than enforcement. Um we have this information on our website about milling and pave uh paving on
Hunington Road, Mars Road, Sussex Road, and Tap and Terrace. doesn't affect all residents. Uh just a um an isolated segment, but you can please check out this information to see how it may may or may not affect you. Um now, this information here uh I I put up over the
weekend when we had some storms come in. Uh and this is how to uh contact uh PSENG to report an out outage. There are four ways to do so. And uh just today we had another uh line of storms come through. In fact, we have two confirmed
tornado touchdowns in uh one in Stanh Hope and one in Paripany and it was heading this way and I fielded two um media inquiries from the New York media if anything had happened in West Orange. I don't believe anything did as I reported. Uh but the storms did come
through our area. And I I want to uh point out that there is a difference between a tornado uh watch and a tornado warning. A tornado watch simply means that it's uh possible that it's going to happen in a designated area. A warning
means that there are confirmed sightings in the uh war in in in the area. So, please be aware of the difference between a tornado tornado watch tornado warning. Hopefully, we never have to talk about this again, but if you need to contact PSNG to find out about uh to
report an outage and find out about when it restored, this information is on our website. and um social media. Uh tomorrow uh on uh Wednesday uh subs at the pool. Uh obviously you there's no time to register, but you can show up.
Uh but if you show up, please be aware that exact change is required at the entrance. Uh two quick things here. Uh our West Orange Police Department Community Service Unit, which does a fantastic job at connecting with the uh community in so many ways. Uh they have
a backpack and school supplies giveaway. This information is on social media. I can't believe we're talking about back to school already. There's still plenty of summer out there, but please consider how you can support them. The uh mayor also asked me to um put up uh to to
remind everyone that the health department newsletter is available online and there's always a lot of good information there. Uh earlier this week it was announced that uh West Orange has received platinum level EV adoption leadership certification. Uh you can
read about this on our website. But one of the many benefits is that this uh helps us with sustainable New Jersey points and gives us uh an edge when it comes to uh receiving receiving grants. So you can read more about that on our website. This information about
door-to-door cameasing for New Jersey American water. The camasing map is updated every Friday on our website. The information about open office hours for a West Orange tax assessor. That schedule is also posted on our website. Um and and here's another important
reminder for the public. Last week, I was crossing uh Main Street and I activated the automatic crossing signal and cars were beeping the horn at me because I was in the crosswalk and uh they're required by law to stop. So, um
I I I think it's nearly impossible that they didn't see me. Uh so I think I want to point out that uh remind any any people wa any motorists watching that when these lights are activated that means that there's a pedestrian about to enter or in the crosswalk please stop
and yield to the pedestrian in the crosswalk. I also want to point out that uh viewing West Orange Town Council prior meeting videos there were two options. Option number one is at westarm.org the best way from our website. I usually have it posted within
two hours after the end of the meeting. You simply go to the government tab, township council videos, and they're archived back to 2012. And uh option two was TV 3645. And but they only air the uh town council videos September to May.
I always send it to them and they always post it up there. They're closed for the summer. However, the only option going forward, at least at this time, is going to be from the website because due to the um uh changes at the board of ed and the laying off of people, that there is
currently no station manager at TV 3645. I don't have any information when or if at all they will be resuming duties. Um now I know a few people rely on watching it on the um on TV 35
3645 but it is very very easy to watch it online and I understand sometimes the computer can be a little bit intimidating but if anyone has any questions please call me uh in my office. The number is 973 325-4133
and I would be glad to walk you through it. It's very easy and there's no reason uh if you're not familiar with computers or laptops to be intimidated by this. It's actually very easy. Uh I want to point out in closing that uh on July 8th, West Stars participated in a uh
actually national but worldwide reading of the Declaration of Independence here at the Thomas Edison uh historical park. It was uh we had a we had a good turnout and uh the the program was wellreceived and as I said it was uh it was done simultaneously around the world to
commemorate our 250th anniversary. Um, speaking of, I will have a a live a presentation coming up at the library to continue the uh, Rev New Jersey theme and it will be unearthing our past that will be on August 22nd at 2 p.m. and it
will be dealing with revolutionary stories and uh, I'm in the process of uh, working on this and I have a lot of good good information coming up there that is relevant to the revolutionary war in West Orange. Uh, that concludes my presentation. Council President, I'm
sure you're happy to hear that. And um uh Mr. Plesi is here, but Mr. Plesi has also mentioned that there is nothing uh really new to report. He doesn't have a report this evening unless he wants to say a few words. >> Uh but he can come up and uh he can say a few words if he likes. But that
concludes my report. Council President, thank you. >> Can I ask you one favor? >> Absolutely. Uh a lot of our seniors rely on watching channel 36, our council meetings. Is there something brief we could put together that maybe we could disseminate to them through Laura Van Djk?
>> Well, I could certainly put the information out on our website or social media, but if uh if they're not watching on the computer and they're relying on TV 3645, uh I doubt very much that they're going to see that information. Um I think it'd be best to try and spread the word.
That's why I wanted to mention it here. I wanted to mention it here tonight. Uh, and as I say, they're welcome to call me. Um, or you can refer them to me. My email is jfaganwest.org. But, uh, don't call me if you're going
to ask me when it's coming back because that's a question that I cannot answer and I do not know. Uh, but as soon as I have any information available on that, >> uh, I certainly will, uh, make that available uh, to to the public. Uh I think >> I think based on the phone calls that I
receive about it not being on the cable channel uh there's only a small handful of people that it affects and and and and and we want to reach those people as well. But uh as I say they're archived back to 2012 on the website and they're
up there uh practically right after the meeting end and it's very easy to watch. It's just a matter of clicking the link. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. Thank you, Council President. >> Mr. Ply, would you like to say hello to us or are you good? >> Hello. >> Okay, great. So, with that, we'll just get started with public comment. Can I have a raise of hands of how many people
will be making public comment tonight? Okay, very good. And we're going to do it by topic or by subject. Okay. So, when the first person comes up for public comment, you give your name and your address. And then if you are
talking about that same topic, raise your hand or come up to the front. Okay. So, Miss Bernett, would you like to start us off? Joy Bernett, Pilot Place, and I am here to talk about
the Pilot parking permit situation. So there were two ordinances listed on the agenda. Um I want to speak about POT place. There were some issues when I
read it um under 747.2. It says B says residential parking decals shall be limited residents of Pot Place four vehicles. Should that be fo u r four or should it
be f o r? Sorry. >> Yeah, >> that's the teacher. Okay, it's I don't know. >> Is it supposed to be four? The number four. Okay, so that's incorrect. >> Um, so if it's the number four, then I'm fine with that. And then it says later
on that it's the second reading. It's actually not the second reading because it hasn't been read before. Um, >> and I guess that's my those are my only issues. Um, and then I also wanted to talk about it
being a pilot. I am not sure why this is still a pilot. No other street, whether it was Glenn or Oakidge or Calvin, uh, ever had a pilot. At the last meeting, we spoke of the amendment that was made
to the Glenn permits based on the resident's request. The residents on POT should be granted the same opportunity of a permanent ordinance. And if we see a need for amendments, we are quite capable or coming and requesting the
same way that those on Glenn did. We do not need the police to decide whether this is appropriate for our street or not. That should be decided by the residents. And as you can see, I don't have a problem coming here after 17
years explaining if there is a problem, if we need amendments, if we need to make changes. So, I would like to ask that this not be a pilot and that we be treated just as the other residents in this town have been treated. I just want to also share that as I go outside of
West Orange, people have been talking to me about the News12 story and they are people cannot believe that in 2026 there is a neighborhood of people that look like me that are being treated differently than another neighborhood.
I've been asked, Joy, how long has this been going on? I thought West Orange was a diverse town. I thought that that was a place that everyone was welcome. And I said, so did I. After living here over 20 years, teaching here for 21 years, I am so disappointed that this is has been
my experience. And as we mentioned, we got summer coming back. School, we're talking about school coming back. I should be resting, right? I should be on a vacation, but I haven't planned one because I can't go anywhere because you guys might decide something that's going to again affect the quality of my life
without me being here to stand here and fight about it. I would like to enjoy the rest of my summer vacation. Can we get this put to bed and be done with it and start treating every resident in this town the same with equity and equality so that I don't have to spend
another 17 years dealing with this nonsense? I do not know why this is starting October 1st. School starts on September 1st. >> Um I would like to start coming home for lunch again and I start school the first week of September. So, I don't want to
wait and give Satan Hall again more opportunities to take space up on my street. Um, the other thing I just wanted to address was that at the last meeting it was made a point was made about how many spots are on the street. If we would be realistic, our families
work just like everyone else's. 8 to 4 is when the permit is. We are not going to have four people from every household trying to park on the street. We need to be realistic. My neighbors will park in their driveway, but just like your households, we have adult children. You might have a mother and a father parked
in their driveway on one day. On another day, you might have two of the children parked in the driveway and someone might need to come home or someone might be taking a day off. We are not going to have we have 63 houses on our block. We're not going to have over 240 cars trying to park on the street at the same
time. It is ridiculous to imply that that is what would be happening. So, I just wanted to speak to the reality of that. And um that's it. And my daughter would like to know that when she gets her license, she will be able to have a place to park. I like that the ordinance
includes four because as I've made point over and over again, I don't have a driveway. So, thank you very much. >> Thank you for your advocacy. We will get this done. Would anyone else like to talk about this topic? >> That's okay. Okay. If it's relates to
parking, let's come on up and I'll get you next. I'm sorry, I don't know your name. >> It's okay. Katrina Katrina Dansby. Uh 25 Tomkin Street. >> Okay. Um on my block, there is no parking on Tuesdays, Monday, and Tuesday on one side of the block. Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, and Saturday on the other side of the block. There's no times. Um they just put a new building there with 17 units in it. Some of the houses over there don't have driveways. So, all of us are never going to be able to park on the same side of the street.
Like, it's a parking war. When when I come home from work, it's like really crazy. And then there's a dumpster that's out there on the side of the street that you can only park Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. There's a a big dumpster there that's taken up like two or three spaces. So, we really have
nowhere to park. there's a private um townhouse right next door and they complain if you like park in their driveway a little bit or next to their driveway and it's it's really a lot and we're just trying to figure it out. Not to mention um I never saw a parking sign
until I got a ticket and the parking signs are like way down the other end. Most of us in the building have no reason to go down that end to you know so we don't know that there's a parking ordinance until we got a ticket. most of us in the building and I'm surprised nobody else is here because they said
they were going to come but it's okay I'll advocate because I need I need to bargain. Um so it like I said and the the sign is faded so you can barely read it. When I did go look at it you can't really see what the sign says. So, you
know, we just wanted to know if that is there a way to get that amended or fixed or even if there was I know it's has to be alternate so they can come clean the streets or something like that >> if they had like a time frame like maybe Monday this side you can't park a few hours or this side you can't on the
other side a few hours instead of like the whole day like there's and then we get tickets like 2 3:00 in the morning. >> So, I just wanted to advocate for >> Okay. Well, thank you very much for explaining your problem to us. >> We'll see what we can do about it. Thank you.
>> Does anyone else want to speak? Park. >> Good evening, board. So, I also Oh, I'm sorry. Carla Ramos, 25 Tomkins Street, apartment 303. Uh, yes. So, I moved here. Sorry, combatic bronchitis. I
moved there in January. was not aware of this alternate side parking. Uh me and my husband both work, you know, we work during the day. We saw somebody putting a ticket. Apparently, they're outsourced to put
tickets, but they told us, which why I'm mentioning it, cuz I don't know if it's correct, is that this ridiculous 5day non-parking, which every town in the state has one
day street cleaning, was made back during COVID for trucks. Now, like the lady before mentioned, now you got a brand new building with probably 20 families,
construction, you have a lot going on. We were not told this when we all moved in. So, again, very ridiculous. I feel with all the other streets, including Scotland and Valley Road, why is there
any consideration or priority to a truck? who could just simply be told, "Don't come on the street. No trucks." I'm sure millions of towns are doing this across the country. So, five days is
with a lot of new people in a building is really, really hard for us. Um, I'm self-employed and I'm literally rushing. I I do and I own a marketing agency. If anybody needs a website uh marketing consulting, I have to stop working no
matter what at 4 because 5:00 on the dot it's a it's a war out there. Um I feel that is very unethical because again taxpaying citizens were a truck driver who could who shouldn't honestly even be going on
that street. It's way too narrow. But again, this is what we were told by the parking people that were giving the tickets. Uh, at first they were coming at 11:00 a.m. Wasn't really a problem because people work. Now they're doing
it overnight, which again, if trucks do need to come during the day, that's fine. 90 50% of us work during the day. I don't know why these parking toll or or or uh ticketing people started coming overnight when everybody's home. So one,
I definitely do highly recommend we get rid of it altogether. CO times have done. Therefore, we need to revisit this and see if it's even makes sense for this town with a brand new building. Uh
two, maybe just do one day a week each side and be considerate of again hardworking taxpaying residents. and three those two days that's fine or you know one day each side but it should be
during the day because to say no one park on this side of the street overnight while everybody's sleeping is again with all due respect ridiculous. So, um, we really need to look at this because,
uh, who's going to wake up at 3:00 in the morning to skip, uh, you know, not get a ticket. And I understand, right, once a week, but I I really I really think we should just get rid of it alto together and just have a street cleaning day. Uh, again, it's it's it's a war out there. There's construction going on.
There's a building that got, you know, I think I was one of the first residents in January. It's now at full. >> So, I don't I don't even invite my family over because there's no parking. My husband also gets up at 4:00 a.m.
He's waking up extra just because your parking people are doing overnight ticketing. And I just really feel like that's unfair. >> So, please let's change this. >> Thank you. We'll take it.
25. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to discuss parking on any of the streets? No. Okay. So, then we'll go to uh Miss Bennett, would you want to come? >> Thank you, Michaela Bennett. uh Old
Indian Road. Um good evening. >> Good evening. So before I get into my prepared public comments, I did want to um encourage one of you, all of you, some of you to make sure that at your next opportunity during a consent
agenda, you can honor and acknowledge Jared Seltzer and Bagels by Jared for the tremendous um opportunity that is still unfolding where he is presenting the very best of West Orange.
I heard today he was on Z 100, brought plenty of food, but I would really encourage you to acknowledge this fine member of our community, business owner, and just all around really nice guy. Um, all right. So, uh, earlier this evening
during the budget workshop, I raised, uh, sewer fees. And you'll just bear with me, I'm going to raise it again. So, I'd like to speak tonight about the township sewer fees and the importance of transparency and how those dollars are collected, accounted for, and ultimately spent. First, I would like to
be clear. I'm not arguing that West Orange shouldn't charge a separate sewer fee. New Jersey municipalities absolutely have the authority to do so. Um, many municipalities do so because it ensures people who use the system, including taxexempt properties, help pay
for its operation rather than shifting those costs entirely onto property taxpayers. In fact, that's exactly how West Orange has explained its sewer fee for residents for more than a decade. In 2013, Mayor Paresi told residents that the sewer fee pays for treatment costs,
nine pump stations, 110 miles of sewer infrastructure, sewer equipment, sewer personnel, and sewer related road repairs. He never once mentioned anything else that's related to the general fund. In 2016, he again explained that West Orange charges a
separate sewer fee because it more accurately reflects the actual costs of operating and maintaining the sewer system and allows the township to recover those costs from taxexempt properties that otherwise would not contribute. It's worth quoting him directly here. I'm quoting from that
document. Several surrounding towns and towns throughout the state keep all sewer charges within the general operating budget. West Orange has always been among the municipalities that charges separately for the sewer costs in order to collect
appropriate costs from taxexempt properties. Municipalities that keep sewer costs within the general operating budget forego collecting the cost from any property that is taxexempt. We do not have a large number of taxexempt properties, but it remains more
beneficial to collect the sewer fee where possible and as allowed by law. That sure sounds like a mayor communicating that West Orange doesn't keep sewer fees within the general operating budget. Then in 2023, Mayor McCartney informed residents that the
township had moved toward fully funding the sewer system, including treatment, maintenance, repairs, improvement, and the amirateized cost of construction from sewer users rather than taxpayers because that was the fairest approach. Across all of these administrations, for
more than a decade, the message has been remarkably consistent. Residents have been told that the sewer fee exists for one purpose, to fund the sewer system. That's why I'm concerned. During this year's budget discussions, we've heard conversations around maybe needing to
bond for major sewer infrastructure improvements. At the same time, we had the DPW department head explain during the budget presentation that our pump stations are at end of life and are in desperate need of repair or replacement. No one disputes that these are critical investments, but they raise obvious
questions. If West Orange has been collecting approximately $9 million annually in sewer fees, which are which is several million in excess of what is needed annually, and those fees have been represented for years as payment for treatment, maintenance, repairs,
improvements, and even construction costs. Why are we now facing the prospect of borrowing substantial additional money? Because our sewer infrastructure has reached its end of useful life. Where have those fees gone? How much has been spent each year
annually? How much has been invested in capital improvements? How much has been reserved for future replacement? How much remains today? These are reasonable questions. I have more. I'm going to send it via my comments. I'm going to send it. I'm going to include all the
supporting documentation, but these are reasonable questions. Questions that you should ask and you should ask them of this administration in advance of closing the budget. Thank you. Thank you for your research. Would anyone like to talk about the
sewer fee? No. Okay. Um, on this side of the room, does anybody else have com public comment? Come on. >> Your name and address. >> Hello. Uh my name is Olivia Wellman and I'm currently living at Montlair State
University which is uh 45 Clove Road, another county over. Can everybody hear me? Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. When you think of a school greenhouse, what comes to mind? Maybe students
planting, watering flowers, or picking leaves off vegetation. But what if I told you that this same space has the potential to feed families in the West Orange community for free? And what if it wasn't just a greenhouse? What if it
was also a community food forest with edible trees, shrubs, and garden beds that are accessible for anyone who needs it? A space that captures air pollution, preserves the neighborhood's only green space, and hosts outdoor programming for
everyone. Today we're honored to be talking about the up andcoming Hazel Living Lab, a local greenhouse and community food forest. And now I'll introduce myself. My name is Olivia Wman. I am part of the green team's program with the PSEG
Institute for Sustainability Studies at Montlair State University serving the beloved Hazel Avenue Elementary School. I am one of five interns helping serve and evolve the living lab and cultivate meaningful engagement for it. So, first,
thank you so much for having us. We all have something very special in common. We are all passionate and important members of society, and we're called to help serve our community. So, in this role, our team is helping shape Hazel, its outdoor space, into a living lab so
that students and community members can prosper. So, let's get real. Many of us are very disconnected from the earth. Students are disconnected from being outdoors. And although recent digital-based learning is convenient, it
also often harms hands-on education outdoors. So, starting with one elementary school at Hazel Avenue Elementary School, the living lab will bring hands-on education to Hazel, encouraging students to go outside of the classroom to learn environmental
topics and reconnect with the outdoors. The lab is developing a community food forest which will supply the Hazel food pantry with free produce and feed our beautifully diverse neighborhoods to relieve the stress of food insecurity.
And of course, it is offering a green space for the community to gather for events, recreation, and to just grow together. So, we are here to ask for your help with securing uh support to ensure the success of the living lab
through funding, community partnerships, and volunteer help. >> Thank you very much. >> Hi everyone, my name is Jasmine Lee and I'm also a Monontlair resident and I'm working alongside Olivia and the rest of our team to build up and support this inspiring and transformative project. We
can do so much more for children's education and for families facing food insecurity with your support. By joining the Living Lab initiative, you make future events possible such as farmers markets, cooking classes, and musical events. And you make interactive activities accessible for all students
to use gardening tools, soil testing kits, and to get their hands dirty. We are grateful for the support of Sustainable New Jersey, the PTA, and the greater Hazel community. Yet, due to the tight school budget, the living lab hasn't been able to take off as quickly as we had hoped. So, we are asking for
your help to change that. Any type of donation, monetary or inind, will help ensure longevity for this project. If you scan the QR code on our pamphlets, you can find more information on the website. So, please reach out with grant opportunities, local businesses, or organizations who are interested in
becoming community partners, or if you have the resources to contribute directly. It starts with just one person willing to say yes. The Living Lab will combat food insecurity, improve ecological literacy, and promote immersive learning, strengthening the community through our collaborative
efforts. Your support will help make this all possible. There are so many opportunities to connect and we would love to discuss with each of you further. So, please come up and talk to us after this. We will stick around and share contact information to answer any questions you all have. And thank you.
>> But thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all you're doing. >> Thank you. >> And and we and I'm an SLP in the schools. I'd love to help you out. We'll talk later. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> Nice job. Okay. Very nice. Thank you for
your community spirit. >> We need more young people like this. Okay. Anyone else on this side of the room before I go to the Okay, Justin. Switch lines. >> Yeah. Okay. Mental gymnastics. Um Justin
Goldsman, West Orange. Um hope everyone's doing well. Couple of important topics tonight, so I'll jump right into them. And again, I hope they're viewed as productive and out of a desire to see our town succeed. On resolution 204, the interlocal purchasing system. While I believe
according to the tips website, membership is free, which is a good thing. I do have four questions on that item. One, how will this system interplay with our current practices for RFQ and RFP procedures? Two, given that this system, according to their website, because I spent a while on their
website, is housed in Texas and they only track Texas state laws, um, how will we oversee this program to ensure compliance with New Jersey procurement laws? Does this mean that TIPS will locate contracts for us? And if so, how do new entities, particularly West
Orange or Essex County residents seeking to do business, apply for contracts? And lastly, since TIPS was originally scheduled as an educational service in Texas, is there an opportunity for shared services between the town entering this agreement and the board of ed on resolution 202, the safe roads to
school 2020 grant? I'm thrilled we're receiving another apparent $300,000 for this program. I do have some questions and they're meant for clarity for gotcha questions. At the March 30th grant presentation that was held in this chamber, I was at it. We were told that this grant and program was for $920,000.
The new modified specs on the agenda say we're increasing it by 300,000 yet the total in the resolution document is $611,000. The math doesn't math there for me. Can someone speak to the total cost being spent on this project? Are the new funds a match system? What's the breakdown
between federal, state, and local dollars? At that March 30th presentation, we were told that 21 intersections were to be improved upon. How many new intersections will be improved upon and where if the grant funding is expanded? We were told that um in this document that this will
culminate by July of 2032. That's five to six years of construction work. Just asking if there's a plan to inform the public about when these repairs will be happening. Coordination with the school system. Five to six years of non-stop sidewalk repairs is necessary and it's a
great effort, but I think just knowing when your route might be under construction is important for our little kids who are walking to school. Um, and then lastly, at that March meeting, residents and the public asked if there was opportunity to opine on, you know, why isn't this street being worked on or
that one? And we were told that it was due to the limited scope and the limited funding. Now that it seems that the funding is being expanded upon, is there an opportunity for community input? And if so, how can that data be collected to see where residents think that there is a gap that needs to be addressed?
Resolutions 207 and 209. Um, this is not a comment on our new chief guillo or chief judge who I think are going to be amazing and I wish them nothing but success and thank you for your service. One of the documents says has been appointed July 1. The other says will be appointed July 1. With all our contracts
and things in the news, I just think we should dot our eyes and cross our tees. So, will be appointed as of today, will be appointed as of the passing of the resolution. Just we should get our dates right. Um, 2980 the parking permits. um
comments about this being uploaded at around 11:00 today. Um that makes it really hard to follow. Um it makes us at odds with our own code because it shouldn't have been technically heard tonight, but the members there have been waiting way too long to get this done and they deserve it. Um I also agree
that there needs to be a number in that ordinance and not just permits per registered number of cars. You will create an absolute nightmare if every single car. you will make the problem worse and exacerbate it by having unlimited amounts of cars just because you live at that house be able to park.
You will shift the concern. In an ideal world, all six of these streets should be operated at once out of fairness to everyone, out of the operational flow of traffic. I know it's not an ideal world, but really um the start time needs to be September and not October because you're going to create habits of students being
able to think that they can park there, arguing that we could start the school year there and now we can't. Um so I think that's needs to be updated to September one. And on the new matters for the agenda, I am glad to see that there's a conversation about data centers. Um at the May council meeting,
I presented everyone here with an ordinance, actually two ordinances. You could have taken your pick. To regulate, define and add data centers to our hope privateed use center. On June 24th, I joined a national webinar of a select few individuals with representatives
from IBW at Leona, a council member from Chicago, and a council member from Lincoln, Nebraska. We talked about the need to do this with diligence. Um, there's an enormous environmental and quality of life risk here. So, I'm just asking that whatever version of an ordinance you adopt, we should adopt one
and do this. Um, and just on a point of public awareness for our residents who receive SSI, um, you will not receive an August payment. You will receive two payments in July. So July 1 and July 31st just due to the timing. So if you're relying on your SSI benefits in August, it will be given to you on July 31st. That's important for our seniors
and those on SSI. So thank you very much for your time. And yes, Kudos J bagels by Jared. Right. >> Thank you. Uh who else would like to speak on the this right side of the room? Mr. Panola. Mr. Panola, why don't you
come? Go ahead. >> Good evening. Joseph Panulo uh 200 foot notice area, West Essex Highlands and Essex Spells. have three uh just three topics tonight to discuss and I will
present nothing to get a response, but I will have a question for council if you have an answer when I'm done. But first, on July 15th, last week, the Essex County Board of Commissioners adopted resolution number 117. I brought a copy for everyone. I just gave town council
uh one. That resolution is to reaffirm support of the preservation of the forest on the second Wong Mountain Ridge. And I'm just going to read a couple of elements from it, but I'll leave it behind. It was uh it was proposed by acclamation unanimously approved. This is the second resolution
the board of commissioners has adopted. Last one was October 22nd last year when they resolved and recommended the township deny the plan and preserve the forest. That plan has been denied. This resolution proposes resolves that the
township should preserve that forest on the 120 acre property at block 179 lot 32 known as west Essex Islands. This because it's a core forest a critical irreplaceable environmental facet of Essex County providing essential habitat water resources waters from the forested
land feed the canuba privary replenish critical aquifers that contribute to New Jersey American water and Essex's water supply etc etc resolved that the bounty county board of commissioners hereby supports the efforts of Essex County municipalities community members
business owners to safeguard the highlands and reaffirms its previous support to permanently preserved the forest on the second watch on mountain ridge respectfully urges the township of West Orange to maintain its denial of the development in West Essex Highlands and further resolved. Copies of this resolution will be transmitted to the
mayor, the town council and members and the planning board members. That's one. I thought everybody should know that you have the support of the county as well as everybody else that spoke here without opposition. Quick up litigation update. I spoke here
last time about the D uh appeals that were reply brief were filed on July 6th. Oral arguments haven't been set yet. With regard to one other matter under litigation, that would be ESXL716725.
We care and three private condo unit owners that brought an action against the town of West Orange, the condo association, the West Essex Highlands. On June 8th, the township of West Orange and the condo association were dismissed without prejudice in a stipulation that
was entered. And on June 10th, the same day, the planning board resolved to adopt the resolution to deny the plan, u the court dis denied a motion to dismiss that was filed by the
developer. And all three counts will survive. uh think everybody here should know that Friday the developer filed an answer and counter claim uh to in the next step of the process. I'd like to thank Brian Pler for the
admissions he made. We look forward to interrogatories. And last question is about the affordable housing fourth round housing element fair share plan and it's a procedural question and counselor. It's directed to you if you know.
We understand that the town attorney Samaro the night that uh the shortly after the council endorsed the plan that the planning board had adopted on November 10th that a motion was filed and ultimately granted to indemnify the
town requesting injunctive relief from further builders remedy lawsuits. That's in force. Town attorney ought to be commended for that. I have a procedural question about what now follows. There is not yet, as I understand, u
uh an order, a final judgment of compliance and and repose to close the project, close the fourth round housing element fair share plan out and make it official must be preceded by a fairness hearing, which must be preceded by a fairness report by the special
adjudicator, Elizabeth McManis. And please confirm or correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not asking a question about the case but procedure and I think if I understand correctly that that fairness report cannot be created written or a hearing occur until unless and until
those existing outstanding remedies and litigation against the town are resolved so that the remaining outstanding affordable housing obligation town is known and therefore can be proposed in a fairness hearing. I would just simply thank you and ask if that's correct.
>> Yeah, that's fair to say. It's it's impossible to get a final judgment of compliance while you still have open builders records. But >> I think that makes sense and I just wanted to ask on I appreciate the time. >> Thank you, >> Karen. You didn't have to throw me away.
>> Thank you so much. >> Yes, Susan. There's always a first, right? Susan Lanchek, 234 Eagle Rock Avenue. My questions this evening are directed to anyone on the council who may know the answers and if none do, to the
administration, which likely does know some of the answers. In December 2024, the planning board denied an application from 410 Main Street Holdings for a proposed development at 410 Main Street. The
proposed building was grossly inappropriate for the neighborhood. The impacts on the community would have been severe regarding safety, parking, and quality of life. No one in the neighborhood would have benefited. No one in the area supported the
proposal. and many many people fought hard and passionately to try to prevent the application's approval so they could save their neighborhood. I remind the administration that the original application included no affordable housing units. A grand total
of two were added at the 11th hour and the last stitch effort to get approval on the application. As I mentioned, the planning board denied the application. I recently learned that the administration has made a deal with the owner of the property. The parties must
execute a mutually acceptable written agreement by August 8th. Questions: Has this agreement been completed yet? If so, what are the details of that agreement? Will the developer be permitted to proceed with
the original building whose application was denied? Will they have to present a new proposal scaled appropriately for the neighborhood and that respects the needs of the community? Will they be required to address the issues that were raised by the area
residents during the planning board's review? If the agreement has not been completed, then I ask that you please consider the needs of the residents already living in the area. Those needs include safety. The original proposed building had an unsafeely
situated entrance and egress. Another issue was parking. The original application did not provide adequate parking for the proposed buildings would be residents in a neighborhood already plagued by inadequate parking for the
current residents and the setbacks did not respect the adjacent neighbors. Whatever agreement the administration makes will have huge impacts on the neighborhood. Please let us know what
the agreement entails. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who'd like to make public comment? Okay, seeing none, we'll close. Can I have a motion to close public comment? >> Make a motion. Second. >> All in favor?
>> Any opposed? Public comments closed. >> Okay. Who would like to start tonight? >> Sure. >> I I don't I don't care. I can start. >> Hey, lots to unpack as usual. First of all, I'm going to start off uh with Miss
Lechek's comments. Is there they were very con concerning. um if anything was spoken and I'm trying to remember in a closed session about a settlement or litigation public should not be aware of that. So that's
that's concern number one and troublesome. >> Um unless the planning board I don't recall this. >> So Mr. If you can Yes. >> I would advise everybody not to respond to this particular question because this
is pending legal matter and any com any conversation as discussed up here would could be construed as being um outside the scope of the legal matter. So um saying we do or not, but >> there should be nothing said or spoken
or responded to by this council or this administration at this point in time. >> That was that was >> anybody does that on on anybody does anything else other than that you're you know it could put us in in some questions with legal. So >> now I >> council can
>> Yeah, I know. It's anything that's litigation or even active legislation that could wind up in litigation should not be discussed in response to public comments. >> No, I'm just cautioning. >> No, no, no. I was very going to be very
cautious with my comment. So >> blessed. >> No, no. I I agree. and and so some of the uh speakers I I'm not going to even address because of that because I take my role as a council person very serious and I do not want to get our township in
further litigation than it's already in. Um so switching gears on that. Um I'm going to thank uh first of all this the students for coming in from Montlair State. um you know great to see that
kind of energy about a particular subject. I believe I might have already donated to them. There was a an event at Hazel Avenue and um you know just you know just thanking them for coming out and how exciting uh they are about their
project. Uh hope wishing them much success on that. Um Justin, as usual, a lot of great um comments which I'll let administration address. Yeah, you rattle a lot of items off. I
know uh uh director Calala is here in regards to that grant. Uh I don't have that in front of me, but again these grants were I know you know lights were added to it, other items were added and you know I'll let council president if
we have anything on the agenda you want her to address anything. >> We can address it now >> if you want to address his comments now >> and then I'll take the floor back. >> Yes, of course. >> If I'm not mistaken, one of the comments was about the $920,000.
>> Yes. So that's for the construction of the project. So typically when we applies for the save rout to school grants, they basically work backwards. They award you the first amount which is the construction but then the township could apply for what is known as uh
engineering assistance which is for the preliminary engineering phase of what is the final design phase. So I apply for the engineering preliminary and then now which is this modification would apply for the final design phase and the addition of those two is the
number that you see on the modification for the agreement. So the 920 won't be used until we go out to bid hopefully sometime next year. >> Yes. >> And do we have some good news with Gregory Mitchell? I believe the paintings had commenced to yesterday.
>> The paintings were actually completed yesterday. both sides of the street. Uh so hopefully before the beginning of school I will have those uh LED pedestrian push button signs up at the crosswalks. >> Thank you very much. I heard from a resident on that today. The >> Yeah, thank thank you for that. Were
there any other comments of Mr. Goldman that you could answer to your recollection, Miss Carbala? Uh, as far as your your communication with the schools, obviously anything that occurs on any of our schools, you're always in communication with with
the board of ed or the chief is through or our our information officer is, you know, there's in regards to >> we ask that information be put out there so that the residents know when construction is happening on different streets. >> That that's the norm is ask. Go ahead.
>> So for the LEDs, there isn't really much construction. And we typically just need one police traffic officer for the day. It typically takes it's going to take at least I would say maybe two days at most or one whole day. They got to do the uh footing for the uh sign and then the sign is installed.
>> Okay. >> So that's a thank you. I think they're best for some resolutions when we get to it. So thank you. >> Thank you. Go ahead. >> Okay. And uh with that thank you Mr. Fagan for uh your note on
just going all over the place here. Just trying to You gave us information with that. I wrote your name. I'm sorry. This is This is the drawback of going first. You got to be quick quick at the gate. Um I'll
get back to when I get to your name. Uh again, so Mr. Goldman, thank you also. I want to thank you as well and Miss Bennett mentioned and I had it in my notes for tonight um to talk about the FIFA and you the the soccer you know we
we started two years ago downtown started bringing it to the attention of our business owners during the year. Um, our chamber as well uh worked it and I got to commend the business owners such
as uh uh Jared and his business. They they took, you know, they got great recognition to have both Norway and Spain buy his product is awesome. It's really awesome and it says a lot to uh
his business acumen and for really working a great opportunity and that's what we've been trying to get across to our business owners in the community on when these great events come our way and
we have an opportunity to get out there and capitalize on that tourism aspect. this is a perfect example and a successful one. So, congratulations to
him and and uh his store. So, um EXJ and it it's really great. Um I was happy to see that. Uh also happy to see just all the the press and Montlair really did a great job. They actually secured Spain
to stay at their hotel. So, uh, again, that's what we've always been striving for with our visit, uh, visitor, um, trying to get visitors here to our community. We saw that last summer and, you know, we're just going to keep working that aspect. So, congratulations
to him. And Mr. Goldman, I got to thank you because you've done a great job with driving traffic to our restaurants this for this event, these events, and uh, you've been successful there. And I know Benji's and many others really capitalize on that. And uh I know Castle
Rock even with the Knicks game. So just trying to get all these events going. Rev 250, you know, Mr. Fagan, you did a great job with that. You know, I really enjoyed your presentation and even more so seeing you in a live full costume.
So, it was definitely you did but you just did a great job and again it's about tourism and working our small businesses and and supporting our museum and and other items. Uh we appreciate that. >> Thank you for your support. >> Absolutely. And I'm glad you mentioned
um channel uh channel 36 and the loss of channel 45. And also, you know, one of I mentioned earlier we lost 350 employees in our school district and I got to uh publicly thank uh Lauren Gratha for she
was one of the casualties and she has done an outstanding job for many years. Uh we I've had the uh opportunity to work with her at the school district uh when I was on the board. I also had the opportunity to work with her uh during
the co years here when we were on trapped in zoomland when I was council president and um tremendous tremendous job and it's a big loss to our community you know um a lot of people depend on that. I know you only had a few complaints but there's many that won't
be speaking up for that. So we we appreciate all that work and all the years uh for that. Um big big um issue of the evening and rightfully so which is an ordinance this
evening uh is is this parking issue that we've had for many years now. Um where I'm disappointed this evening and again this is how these things get lost in translation. Uh we talked about what was agreed upon. Um we left the last
meeting. I was under the understanding that we were going to repeat um what we gave to the other streets because we said that would be fair and that was 8 to 10 which I I have not 8 8 to 4 I'm sorry 8 to 4. Uh which sorry it's 10:00
on another note. So, 8 to four the four uh parking passes for each each uh each household and um but Monday through Friday because that's where the other ones were. This says Sunday.
>> Yeah. So, should be Monday. >> So, but no, this ordinance tonight says to Sunday. So, again, so we'll see where that goes. Um, but and I agreed to uh not do the pilot if we went to Friday,
but if we're going to go to Sunday, it would need to be a pilot because that's too much for that I feel for that neighborhood. So, I appreciate all the residents advocating. Thompson Street should be very simple. I don't think the council needs to be involved in that. I think, you know, Miss Carbala heard them
this evening. I'll leave it to the administration to see what's going on there. Obviously, we had a new build. I don't know where this truck came from, but I don't know where a lot of trucks come from in in in these neighborhoods, uh, which is aggravating a lot of our residents. Um, but sounds like it's
something that the administration could straighten out, but she you're jumping up, so you may have something to say on that. So, the new apartment complex at 25 Tommpkin Street, they do have parking and they park at the garage complex located on Central Avenue
>> that backs Mitchell Street. >> So, all 25 or 22 apartments are have availability of parking at that location. >> Okay. >> But but on the street parking, they have alternate that was the complaint. >> They have alternate parking. Is there
any way we could just look at that and fix that because >> Well, the alternate parking is because we cannot allow parking on both sides of the street because then it's too narrow. >> Oh, it's one of the narrower streets. >> Yes. May Can you explain that for folks who are listening about the 27 ft and
the versus 30t wide? So if the road let's say is about 27 to or less, it is impossible really to have parking on both sides of the street because you need 9 ft width for a car on one side.
Then typically the minimum or allowable travel way needs to be 11 to 12 feet and typically we're more comfortable with 12 feet. So it's figures 12 and 12 that give you 24 and that leave you basically with six. So what we do for the minimum is 11 and 11 give you 22 and typically
lift the eight uh width for a parking. So that right there is basically 29 to 30 ft. So, you really can't have parking on both sides and expect to have a two-way traffic cuz what happens when let's say you have
an emergency vehicle that needs to go through and also if you have let's say parking on both sides of the street, two cars coming in each direction, then who moves? >> True. And I just want to get back to,
you know, just to inform folks that may not have been following the meetings with dynamic traffic. We had a a very thoughtful traffic study done and the with this more narrower streets. There was a recommendation on some of the streets to make them one way, which
would open up the parking on both sides. And that of course brings other issues. I'm not going to debate that now, but I'm just saying, you know, it's something that maybe that street may be interested or maybe not. But again, this is part of the issue um that is ongoing
in these areas. And I mean, these are these are a lot of challenging items that we the police department has to deal with enforcement. The fire department has to deal with traveling up and down certain streets. The streets
that were easy peasy years ago that they gave these permits to are a lot wider. They're uh double lots, different, you know, and you know, different structure on the streets. Um fit more cars on in
front of the homes. So, I know it feels like neighborhoods are being slighted. It's it's we would never do that. It's it's been about trying to to get it done. Now, has we been slow? It It seems very slow, but I have to commend the
administration the last year for trying to get this done. This is hard. So, tonight we have something before us that we'll talk about a little bit later. But, um, again, these are some of the challenges. They're not excuses. They're they're real challenges. But, thank you,
Miss Grabbala. Appreciate you you jumping in. >> Um, and >> she's Council Castelino has she's up here. Okay, quick question. >> Um, didn't didn't one of the residents say that they have parking on both sides on Sunday?
>> If I'm not mistaken, they're allowing them to park on both sides on Sundays because that's what the ordinance is, but it shouldn't really be allowing to park on both sides of the street. >> But is it >> and it's the same thing that is doing that happens in the valley where that is also not enforced and they park on both sides of the street if I'm not mistaken
on the weekends. >> But that seems to work better for the neighborhood. Is there some something we can do? Because it sounds >> how could it be working better for the neighborhood? Think about it. You're telling me that it's going to work better for the neighborhood if I allow to have parking on both sides of the street. God forbid there is a fire on
any of those houses and a fire truck cannot get through. So that's not going to make it any better. First and foremost is public welfare and safety. That's my oath as a professional. And I'm telling you right now, that's not the best solution. If you want to park on both sides of the street, the best solution then will be
to make it a oneway. Obviously, not everybody wants that. Unfortunately, what we have or the area that we have or the space that we have or the frontage that we have for people to park is not sufficient. And that's a reality. People have more
cars now. A lot of these neighborhoods were built back in the days when we have factories and everybody was able to walk to get to work. >> It has changed. that what what the she was talking about the truck >> so that you know Mitchell Street is a
truck route that I know I doubt that Tomkin Street is a truck route what was said or what took place I don't know I wasn't part of the conversation and I could tell you right now I know for a fact that Mitchell Street which is one of the intersecting streets for for Tomkins it is a truck route
>> I just have a quick question are are you done >> no I just want to ask how Does how does having it one way address the emergency vehicles? >> If you have it one way, that means that you will have eight and eight leave you 16. So you have a road, right? You only
need about 15 ft or so for the emergency vehicle to travel. >> So you have enough of a width to park the truck and do what you got to do. But if you have only one way and you be taking that space and you got two more
cars that want to drive in opposite directions, how are you going to make it fit? >> And that's and and I will >> go ahead >> add to that conversation. That's only to drive an apparatus down the street. If some of these apparatus have to operate, they need at least 18 to 20 feet.
>> So um you know, so that's that's a challenge that we have with some of our smaller streets. >> Thank you for clarifying that. It's important for people to understand we want to do everything we can to help them, but there are some real engineering reasons and safety reasons why sometimes we can't do certain
things. And to add what the just the what the director said. So 25 Tomkins just recently received it co. There's 17 parking spaces on the property and the developer also included parking for public uh and for this group uh going to
be at the new building that's going to be developed at 95 units. So that's going to be part of what what's going on there. So we have we have looked to get parking in the area to help alleviate some of the parking on the street. >> Right. One thing Carla did did talk about and I've heard through my research
on this from other residents on other street is that sometimes the parking for the street the street cleaning is for like three days a week and they're saying the street cleaners don't even come one day and they've asked about can we you know change that to more of a
reality of the one day a week for the street cleaning. All I could tell you is this. I have basically I looked at the ordinance for Tommin Street just when I was sitting there. There's about two days for one side of the street and the other three days for the other side of the street. When does DPW is going to
come or not to do the sweeping? That's not under my purview and I am sure that they do some roads and then they go to the next and so forth depending where the zones are in the neighborhoods. >> Right. So the question >> and this area truthfully it needs to be
clean. Yeah, >> I've been in the area and I'm sorry for what I'm going to say, but it looks dirty all the time. And they sweep it and within a day or so it's dirty again. I've been in the area. I know. And we did Mitchell Street about maybe not even
on 2023, a brand new road. And I was actually surprised to see uh some of the condition what it was when I went to visit. >> Think I was with you that >> Yes, you you did. And yes, you did. And I was very surprised. Okay. I was
actually disappointed. >> All right. Are we good? Because I want to get the I got just seems excessive five days with the alternate street option. Isn't there some way that we can coordinate better with DPW? >> Well, that would be that would be a conversation that needs to be have with
DPW staff. I am not DPW DPW is right here. So, so the issue is it's one is that we currently we only have one street sweep the whole town because the other one's broken and need $75,000 worth of repair which is part of the fleet that we want to present. You know,
we have to get some um um you know capital to fix >> and buy new. The other is that even if we had two, we have 135 miles of roadway in this township. So to to do to the street we 135 miles means that you're
not we we our our people are out there and they go and sweep. But we just can't pick and choose five different days. It has to be set days so that they can do their routes because they have routes and they go out and they do the routes and they and they do whatever they can. But um with whether if something like a
truck street where there's equipment going up and down such as Mitchell, you know, part of that is coming in from another municipality. So, I don't know what which way the traveling is going. But, you know, we can only keep up with so much of what we have, you know, because it's just it's it's it's difficult and challenging. So, you know,
we can we can look at adding that. We can discuss with the director, but, you know, I'm not promising that we're going to get any more >> attention to one or two streets or one neighborhood than we do others because if we if we do for one or two neighborhoods, then we're going to take it away from another. >> Is there any other street in West Orange
where there's five days of alternate side street parking? Most of them are. >> Most of them. >> Yeah. >> If you look at the ordinance, pretty much every street is like that. Every single one that is alternate street, you got two days on one side and three days on the other. Every single one is
basically the same. The ordinance was established way before I even worked for the township. They've been like that for years. And that's what we've been trying to clean. Am I good? I got my my time back. Um Yeah. And that and that's what we've been trying to conquer.
with year after year and that's the whole reason why we had dynamic traffic come in do the studies we're trying to get consistency so you know folks if you are discovering on your streets that these kind of situations
you know obviously we can't do them all in one day you know it's going to take time but our director and she gets a little frustrated at time because it's something that she's trying to to get done um a lot of focus was up in the Gregory Avenue uh Gregory Avenue area uh
this past year and and whatnot and and uh now with the Alphabet streets, now we're going to move over the Tomkins Street. Um there's many other areas in the town. Um and you know, we're going to we're going to get through them. So, thank you. And if you look into this
area, but but 22 spaces we're going to be picking up when that development, that parking lot gets done. Correct, Mr. Smiro. >> I believe that's the number 22. >> But they already have parking right now. They have parking at the garage. >> Yes. But this is additional 22 spots in
that area. >> There's going to be an additional 22 spots for the town. Yeah. For the township going to be permit parking >> is coming. Yes. Okay. Go. >> It's coming. That was something that we had done years ago on the council. >> I would like to look for the good news. Go ahead. >> Um I think that's it. You know, I we
talked again. Miss Bennett brought up the sewer tax again. we uh fees and I get your frustration but you know I said a little something early in the evening I don't like to keep repeating myself uh but it was repeated here uh you know we
all know it was going to the general fund and it may not have been the right way but for years we inherited a system and I say we any you know I came in 2015 this was a system that was inherited for many many years uh at this council and
something that Mr. Datiniac had to inherit as well as Mr. SMaldo and all of us up here on the deis is that you know we bonded for these repairs when uh the sewer commission had uh dictated it
dictates what we need to spend and had millions and millions of dollars that we had a bond. um you know that's the way it's been done and so to come out if you ha if you want to pay it all off and put it to the side and that's what we're going to do. I'm not opposed
to that but it's something that's not going to happen overnight. It's something that the uh CFO is working on now. Um but it's it it's not something that wasn't transparent. It was talk at nauseium up here every time it comes up.
But again it's it's it's been a buzzword in here. Um and hopefully we're going to switch over to a new system. A lot of people will complain when their t when their sewer fees will change as well as
some people will be very happy and that's and a lot of things that we do up here. So I just want to just let folks know I've you know we've always discussed it. It's always been transparent and to say that it wasn't is just not fair to the administration or
to former council people. Thank you. >> Okay, Councilwoman Williams. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, Plet, we will get to when we get to the ordinance and hopefully be able to make some adjustments and amendments, some that we have already
discussed independently and then some from uh your recommendations as well. Um, again, I do want to um say thank you um to the Living Lab Initiative and Monontlair State University for their partnership with Hazel Elementary. Um,
that's the fun stuff uh that we like to see and celebrate as a community. Um, we need more green spaces. We always talk about that. Um, but not only do we need the more green spaces, um, but we also need to make sure our younger uh,
residents and citizens uh, have the opportunity to learn, um, experiences like this hands-on. So, um, very excited and we'll be personally making a donation uh, to that uh, organization and to the group. We've talked about
parking at Nauseium. So again, um I'm certain that that will be considered and taken into consideration especially at Tomkins. Um so excuse me. Um so looking forward to uh
some relief u from our administration and police department. Um Justin, as always, thank you so much for your recommendations um and as well as uh just pushing us towards a data center. um so that we can
have that conversation and discussion. Um wanted to also talk uh and just say congratulations to um Bagels by Jared for putting West Orange on the map. Uh once again, um we look to
celebrate um every time an opportunity, one of our businesses is acknowledged for doing great things and and certainly with FIFA being here. Um that was absolutely a great thing. So congratulations and thank you for that. All that you do in the community um that
is what um community service and business partnerships looks like. So thank you very much. All right. I think everything else that has been discussed um we will probably talk about as far as an ordinance is concerned. Um I would
also like to take this opportunity to highlight um with the FIFA the West Orange Arts Council as well as the Wilshshire Grand also had a partnership um and an and an event um this past week. Um, we were welcomed to an auction
of our soccer balls that were painted by residents in the community as well as professional artists. I'm not certain what the totals uh looked like yet, but as everyone knows, the arts council now completely funds its existence at 551
Valley Road. Um, so those type of community partnerships um are just amazing to see everyone come together um to serve uh one of our staple or buildings in the community that serves the public. Also want to thank burn um
and welcome them to our community that is a new location on Pleasant Valley Way right next to the Dunkin Donuts. Um had a wonderful ribbon cutting as well as Ombbertos in the valley. U welcome to Ombbertos. Um, and you know, please
continue to support our small businesses. I have seen um, a little bit of conversation about some of our restaurants and how they're doing and the food. Um, we have a ribbon cutting from the Chamber of Commerce also for Agave Blue. Um, which is a also a new
restaurant that has opened um, on Northfield Avenue right by the um, >> where mom and dads was. >> Mom and dad. >> Yes. Where mom and dads was. I'm trying to say the name of the actual daycare facility which is Primrose um so that everyone will understand where that
location is if you had not frequented um that area in the past. Um but please um support our small businesses, support our restaurants. We often hear that a lot of people go um to different cities, our neighboring communities to dine and
eat and and eat out. Um but we do have several small mom and popop uh restaurants in our community and please please please um support them. They it is hard um it is very hard to be in the restaurant business. We know some restaurants have closed of late um and
it is even more difficult when you don't have a liquor license and you own a restaurant. Um, so please, please, please residents um consider um uh consider uh supporting our small businesses, our local restaurants um
that are entering our community um to to to make West Orange their home. Uh Council President, I think that's all I have for this evening. Thank you so very much for the opportunity and thank you everyone for uh coming and and bringing us your comments and your concerns. We much appreciate it. Thank you,
Councilwoman Ruden. >> Thank you everyone for coming out. I was really um disappointed that we still don't have it right on POT. There absolutely should not be a pilot on POT. This is so um unfair. It hasn't happened
in any other neighborhood. And I hope that tonight we can we can change that. But we also need to address the number of pilot uh parking spots and make it appropriate for that area. Um I just want to get this right and get it done
tonight and stop having this come back. We need to have this um change so that it is in effect on September 1st. Um and again I just want to reiterate that there is absolutely no need for a pilot
on PEOT. Um I I want to thank the um residents who came with another parking issue on Tomkins and I want to look more carefully into that to see what else we can do to to open up parking spaces for
that community. Um I I we can't really we were told not to not to comment on the um 410 Main Street. I know that was a hard-fought battle and it was a victory um when it was not approved at
the planning board and um and I I understand that the community is extremely concerned about whatever could come in there and and again not having community input into this. Uh, and as far as the um the sewer fees, I remember
exactly when this happened. And you know, let's just be transparent. Um there were promises made that this fee was supposed to go um to address the sewer infrastructure and
but we have no accountability for it and we can't track it and it's a large number and it's not it just ended up in the general fund. So, I do think that there is there was a promise that was made um that people voted on and that
did not actually take place. >> That's all I was not on the council, but you're speaking while I'm speaking. >> Yes, you are. Sorry. >> And but I I watched that happen and I remembered I remembered the statements
made. I remember reading the articles and a sewer be was established to address the infrastructure >> and it did. It does. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Councilman Koviac. >> Yes. Thank you. I just want to encourage
uh those in the know to try to answer uh Mr. Goldsman's other questions if if that's possible. I also just wanted to thank Miss Leneek for asking very good questions.
However, uh in a blow to transparency, the lawyers have advised us not to talk about litigation. And I find it particularly disturbing when there are parts of litigation that are totally
public that are totally available to any resident who wants to see them but we are being told given legal advice that we can't talk about them. Uh affordable housing is a tremendous burden on our
township, our infrastructure, traffic, and even legal fees. But I'm not talking about litigation. Just want to make sure everybody knows there are public records about the litigation uh that should be available, but I can't talk about them.
But you may want to recall that there was some litigation in the third round of affordable housing that ended in a settlement of the litiga litigation and the
developer then had to go before the planning board. Anybody who gets a settlement in the litigation then has to take their project to the planning board or to the zoning board to get approval. And as we all know,
West Essex Highlands was not approved. So, there are a lot of different pieces here. There's public information available and I wish you the best at finding that public information. Thank you, Council President. >> Hey, great. Thank you very much. Okay,
I'll be brief. Um Joy, I'll start with you. As I told you on Friday, um this had not appear what we had agreed upon in our last council meeting had not appeared on the agenda and I took the day on Friday rather than getting to the
pool trying to work on this issue and Mr. Samero's office, he wasn't there, but he assigned somebody to get this in the direction that we thought we wanted it. Um, I did uh talk to them that it had to be September 1st because those
seat and hall students would get used to parking there and so that I'm I'm surprised that change was not in there and I will let the administration address that. Um, I am very comfortable I think my colleagues probably are with the Monday through Friday. um and
whether we can make this permanent rather than a pilot um I think is something that we should do and I'm going to ask Mr. um Saraldo to just address those points about you know whether this can happen from September 1st and whether we can do this as an
ordinance rather than a >> council president first of all the administration had nothing to do with the Pot place ordinance on Friday you and I had a discussion earlier and you said that it was supposed to be on I explained to you Mr. Semero said he would be presenting it at the March
August 4th meeting and to the best of my knowledge that was the end of the conversation. I had no knowledge that you contacted Mr. Samero's office. You worked with his office without my input. So therefore I cannot comment on anything about this this uh document.
However, that said it was placed on afterwards and we did discuss and put that on there. So, um, it's it's on for tonight's consideration. If this ordinance passes tonight and passes on second reading on the August 4th meeting, 20 days from then, it becomes
law on August 24th, which will be in time for the September 1st date. >> Yeah. >> At that point, um, we will have to go out and get whatever you is decreed by the the council with this ordinance and whether we get permits and things of
that nature. And we don't know how fast we can get them. We may have to do a rush. It may have to cost us more money. I don't know what's going to cost us for the amount. And it should be somewhat nominal, but but we still have to then get our staff up and running to accept all those permits. And so I I anticipate we have the ability to get it done. But
um you know, if there's substantive changes tonight based on the conversation we're here having here, I don't know if that's going to come through. And I would defer to legal on that because if we're not going to make it into a pilot program, I think that's a substantive change. If you're going to make other recommendations with the
parking, it will be a substantive change and therefore you may have to come back as a first reading on August 4th and therefore it probably wouldn't be in place until after September 1st. But that's going to be the council's decision tonight and we have legal here to opine. So um that's about as much as
I can tell you that I know on this particular um um ordinance. So, and that's pretty much as much as I can offer my my uh suggestion or support on. And and if this passes to the administration and the police department, we will administer and and engineering uh we will we will move
forward with it as as directed by the council. >> Yeah. In my communications with um Melanie from Mr. Seerero's office, she >> Oh, I thought she was going to be reaching out to the administration to see if we can do the September 1st date. So, I'm sorry.
my understanding that she >> we can if we can if this ordinance passes but as I said this we received this ordinance at 4:35 on Friday afternoon so for us to review it you know and and the the clerk was out we couldn't get it posted so for us to make
any substantive changes after the weekend was just kind of it was it was difficult so I mean we you know we can it can I can guarantee you it will go on for September 1st if it's passed as is tonight >> but if there's substantive change if there's substantive change. You know, that's that's a legal question.
>> Is September 1st a substantive change, >> right? So, I was directed to little unorthodox, but I was directed to sort of keep up with any changes the council resolves to make and then to
adopt the ordinance on or to introduce the ordinance on first reading as amended. So we'll, you know, we'll talk about it during the process. >> Whatever majority of you decide is
the result is what will be introduced and then I'll get that back to Mr. Samara's office. They will put it in a form to bring back for August 4th for second reading and we should be able if there's no additional changes needed at that time, uh, we should be able to have
it. >> So we can make it an ordinance and not a pilot. We can make it a permanent order or ordinance and not a pilot without >> published one way doesn't isn't binding on anybody. You can change it however you'd like for introduction. >> Okay.
>> As long as you know there's a majority agreement on what >> okay I think form is supposed to look like and then you know if it's substantially similar >> for second reading provided it's uh published in time 10 days prior u then
you should be able to >> Okay. Well, after reading >> after decades, we're going to get it right tonight. Right, everybody? >> Hope so. >> Fingers crossed, >> everybody. >> Okay, very good. That was my third. >> Okay, thank you. So, we'll make it
happen. We're going to make that happen tonight. Um, Michaela, thank you so much. Jared Seltzer is a pillar of our community. He does uh is a wonderful asset. He's been wonderful for us with the older adults and everything he's
done for fe with FIVA is incredible and I am going to reach out to him tomorrow and we are going to find a way to honor all of the incredible work he does in our community. Um Olivia uh the Feed the Family Greenhouse, you have my support
both financial and as a volunteer. Uh, as you know, you may not know, I'm a speech language pathologist in our schools and I will rally as many people as I can to make this a success. This is the exact kind of activity we need to
bring that sense of community back that we are all yearning for. You know, sometimes there's so many divisive things with which group wants what, but this is something that I think we can all work on as a community and enjoy together. So, I'm very excited about
this. I love the positive stuff. Okay. And Justin had um a couple questions about the interlocking um purchasing some about how RFQS may or may not have been put out and about Texas state laws. Can you speak about
that at all? >> Sure. This is the national co-op that we're joining TIPS. So, um we did verify that uh their policies are um as strict or even stricter more strict than the state
purchasing laws. So, we're allowed to join this co-op and we're joining this co-op because we have a specific product in mind um that we want to get through the co-op. So, um I mean right now it's
it's for that reason, but um that doesn't necessarily mean that's the only thing we would ever use them for. So, it won't change I don't think it will change our our RFP RFQ process. Um we still are going to seek the best price.
Um whether that's going out to bid or using our co-ops, uh the best price is always, you know, at the top of our mind. >> Um >> what's that? We still we may >> we use Houston Galveston because >> which is based out of Texas. We've been using them for
>> that's how you buy fire trucks now years. >> Everybody buys fire trucks isue. >> Yeah. So it's a Texas based national co-op. >> Okay. Great. >> And this particular product is a software solution for for Oprah. >> All right. Thank you. Sounds good. And
that's about all I have. >> Okay. >> So >> Okay. So let's move on. close public comment and move forward with the resolutions. >> Okay. So,
consent agenda, approval of minutes of previous meeting, none. Report of township officers, none. Reading of petitions and communications and bids, none. Bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? >> Yes, I have I'm pulling a few bills. um
1 191503. Um it is for our medical director for 777,000 uh 7750 um $7,750. Sorry. Um it's not an itemized bill.
It's a it's a job description. Um this needs to be corrected. Can you give me the >> Yes, it's it's item number 1 19153 >> and the amount was >> $7,750.
considering that there is another contract up for this same vendor um requesting more money um for services and this is not an itemized bill. I don't think that we should be paying it. Um
the second one is 19156 Millennium. Millennium is our grant writer. Again, not an itemized bill. Says overseeing grant grant money. This is something that I personally requested when I came
on because we were losing track of grants and we're paying them $937.50 to do this, but there's no itemization to tell us what exactly they are tracking.
Um, the third one is 1 191069. Um, these are appraisals for Hendricks Appraisal Company, $4,125. A slew of appraisals requested. I'd like
to understand why we are paying for all of these appraisals, um, including paying for a privatelyowned building at 80 Main Street. Why are we why are we paying all of these? And I I'd like to get the answer to that.
>> What was the email, please? $4,125. Um I'm pulling once again um 1 192085 a $660 bill for Denofrio uh landscaping for 6 hours of cleaning a dog park which has
almost no trees. And I'd like to understand since the the head of the DPW was here, why this is not being assigned to DPW and saving us this money. This is almost 7,000 more than $7,000 a year.
Um, I'd also like to pull 19046 for ZN Construction. This is a very, very large bill reimbursing this company for work that was done at Ospac. Um
online this week there was um talk about interpretive signs that were being put up around OPAC. Eight of the exact same interpretive signs. Um each one costing $2,500, a total of $20,000
that identifies a maple tree. So, there are eight signs coming out of this budget totaling $20,000 for the same sign. I'd like to understand why that is in there and why
more trees weren't identified. Um, I'd also like to understand what what are trash recepticles 2.5 TR trash receptacles. What does that mean? Is there such a thing as a half of
a receptacle? >> Mr. Carbalo, thank you for your clarification. So, the work hasn't been finished. Obviously, there were five or four in the contract. So, he has done most of the footing. So, I paid them for half of the amount. >> Okay, that that answers the question.
What about the signs? Why are there eight signs identifying maple trees and that's it? There is the problem is is that the plans show this the interpretive sign as being the maple tree. So the contractor order eight of those identical signs. We
are in the works of working with the contractor to see what we can do to rectify it. But the problem was that the plans show that. Okay. So this is this is something that needs to be corrected hopefully. Yeah. I got to find out from the contractor how much more is it going
to cost? Why would it cost us more if they made a mistake? >> It doesn't. You're not understanding. They didn't necessarily make the mistake. It is shown on the plants as like that. >> It's shown on the plant. Who who approved this plan to have eight signs saying the exact same thing only
identifying one tree. >> The bid plans. That's what it shows. Unfortunately, that was overlooked during the process. >> Okay. And when we approved the sign, we didn't think that the contractor was going to order eight. That's the problem. So, I need to speak
to the contractor. >> Okay. >> And knowing him, he probably won a change order like in everything else. >> Okay. >> That was omitted or overlooked through the contract. >> Well, this is a small amount in in in the scale of a ver a million-doll contract.
>> Yes, it is. But still a change order. >> What a what a shame. Um, also I noticed that in this same contract there were nine trees removed that were 6 to 12 in and two trees that were moved that were
between 12 and 24 in. >> Yes. Are are they are they under our same um tree ordinance that the replacements will be going in? We have a plan landscaping plan or planting plan that is actually being reviewed by our
forester. the trees that have to be removed were actually I would say this inspected assessed by the tree forester. So I follow his recommendations. Okay. I understand they were assessed to be removed but are they are they going
to be replaced? >> Yes. Like I just said we have a landscaping plan. >> Okay. I I just want to understand that the we're having the exact same replacements and not >> you did receive the bid package from the purchasing agent if I'm not mistaken. In that big package there is a tree
planting plant. If you look at the plants that were there and in the bid items there's a number of trees that need to be replaced. >> Okay. >> And it's a large number of trees. >> Okay. And those were actually put in the bid if I'm not mistaken when we had a meeting with Councilwoman Kascarpa and
yourself when you came to the office last year. And we make sure that we put planting into the bid. >> All right. Um that's it for for that particular contract. Um, I do want to
ask a question in terms of the $25,000 sign for the library that a couple of a couple of weeks ago I pointed out that that was supposed to come from a $75,000 settlement. I'd like to know one, has that settlement since been received? And
two, um, who who checked this sign before it went up? And I mean, how many proofreaders do we need? It's a very big sign. It has the wrong address. And who's going to be responsible for that change order?
>> So, regarding the uh settlement, um I'm still in contact with our legal to get this finalized. And with regards to the sign, it an error happened. And we had a discussion last week between us, the library, and the sign maker. and we're in discussion on how we're going to
rectify this >> and will we be charged? >> We're in discussion with rectifying with the library and the and the vendor. >> Okay. And and finally, um I'd just like to know if there was a um a
salary on this on the bill list because it was very hard for me to to figure this out whether or not there was a salary payment to the new deputy director of planning of planning, which is actually a zoning position.
I'd like to know if that was on the on the bill list. >> Why would we Why would our salary payment be on? >> Because all of the salaries are listed on the bill listed official. >> All of the pay.
>> Oh, so >> be included. >> He would not be included. the gentleman you're speaking of would not be included on this because it only goes up to the payroll that was on July 2nd.
So >> that would only be one day. >> He started on the six. He's not on >> um so no he's not included on this bill list. >> Okay. >> He'll be included on >> the August bill list.
>> Okay. So to my recollection this this body voted four to one not to approve this position. How is it possible that in a Faulner government where we authorize the
spending that a position was offered to an employee without our financial oversight? >> Your attorney. Um, I thought I thought that >> I mean that was >> thoughtful.
>> I thought that it was discussed that that position had not been removed from the budget from last year. Uh, I think there was probably some type of internal investigation by our administration. Uh, and I think that our council had already
advised and disclosed to us that the position had been offered and accepted and that it was going to move forward. >> I'd like our administration to respond to this. Um, also, um, that's not a legal opinion. We as a body voted not to
approve this position. And the position was offered. And actually, I don't even I' I'd like to verify whether the salary is the same as what was put up. And I also went back and checked on the 2025
budget and this was not a position that had been removed. It was not on the 2025 budget. It was added to the 2026 budget. >> How is this legal? Is this legal? >> So, Councilman Williams explanation was
actually accurate. um which means that if there's a position on the books which was funded as part of the temporary budget that that was the explanation that was given. I'm just repeating what was >> it was not on the books as of 2025. It
was added to our budget. We had a meeting with the director and 4 to one voted not to not to approve that position. the the financial mechanics of it, I'll defer to the administration, but the the
actual legal reasoning behind filling the position is exactly what the council woman said. >> No, only if what what that person is saying is factually correct. >> That was the explanation that was given. I mean, it was it was closed session,
but it's over now, so it's no longer uh confidential. But that was exactly the way it was displayed. I mean I like literally >> does this body does this body have fiduciary oversight in terms of if it's
not in the budget and we did not approve it to be in the budget can it then just be slipped back in as if we didn't vote >> according to labor council >> yes >> there was >> that's what he said >> an offer an acceptance contract was entered into and the council can cannot
undo that if the council's elects to not fund the position in the future. I'm not sure what the uh the ultimate outcome of that would be, but that was I mean that was the discussion.
>> What is the salary of this position? >> Um getting into personnel matters. >> It's not performance. That's >> I just want to make sure before we >> I'll stop. >> Okay. the salary um for the for the position is 123,000
and and change. >> So So that's >> a deputy director. >> That's more than actually what was even in our our um ledger which we did not approve, >> right? So the amount that was was put into the introduced budget was for
120,000 for the year. since the person's starting in July, you know, they're only going to make half, roughly half of the 123,000. >> Okay. And just for the record, we were told that we were never told that a contract was signed
>> um a contract was signed. I said a contract was entered into >> entered into and not signed before. If it was not signed when we had already said no, then it's not approved >> legally. Legally, a contract was an offer, an acceptance, and consideration.
The the position was offered, the position was accepted. The salary is the consideration. Thank you. That's a verbal contract. It's valid in every state in the union. >> The the legalities of of who voted for what is is an issue for another day.
>> The administration even said in the same meeting that we'll just have to figure out how to fund it from another lineup. How do you fund it from another line item? We are the ones who approve this line item. >> Okay. I think I think Madame President,
if this was if if Councilwoman Ruden is speaking that this happened during a budget hearing, did this happen? >> Yes. >> It was never No, you did not vote on it. I have all of the >> the work done both the amendments
everything that was done and eventually there was a motion to table the section to a future meeting 5 >> but we did table the entire the entire page but we did vote four to one and I have that in my >> not here I have it here.
>> Okay. There was a motion to read. >> Well, we can we can go go and and play back the tape and and >> well, trust me, I spent hours making these up. So, and I went back at so many times. I literally spent half a week last week
doing all of this trying to get it straight for Mr. Diniac so he could let the council know, you know, where where we were at. But we have a motion to remove 125 120,000 from the line item vacant deputy director. >> That's right.
>> Okay. There was no vote on that. There was a motion to amend the prior motion and remove vacant deputy director position. That was 3 to2. Uh it failed. Motion to remove 120,000 from line item vacant deputy director. 3 to two.
Failed. Motion to table this section to a future meeting. 50. >> Okay. Well, so but this budget has not been passed and that page was not signed off on. And how do you go and authorize
a a contract without the governing body's approval? >> It's I I just explained it. It's not a contract that was written like the police chiefs or the fire chiefs contract. It was like any other like any
other employment offer to a non-contract non union employee. >> The person was offered the >> I would like to request to see the contract. >> There is there is no contract. >> Oh, so there is no contract. >> I'm sorry. I'm I'm finished. It's there
was conditional offer of employment that was offered to the gentleman and and the employee and then they signed off and we entered. That was that's how the procedure. >> It was verbal. You're talking >> No, it's not verbal. That's we any employee that we hire, it's a conditional offer of employment with the
terms and conditions of the of the U position and they have 5 days to decide if they want to accept it or refuse it. Um and then that's how we move forward. So there is no contract >> there. There was no no p no um bid for
this job. No open bid, no advertised bid. It was offered to one individual and there is no written contract. So, >> is there a job description? >> So, Councilwoman, all due respect, the mayor wanted this position. She put it
into the the count into the agenda into the budget. It was presented. The mayor made gave the administration which we have the prerogative of of personnel. We went through the process. We went through a condition of offer extended.
It was accepted and this employee is now working for us. That's the process under the Faulner Act as you eloquently presented before. We are under the Faulner Act. We the administration handle personnel. You hand handle the budgetary. >> Exactly. Thank you so much. I would like
I would like to help like >> I would uh I would like another legal opinion on this. I'm I'm really >> I would like another legal opinion on this on whether or not this is this is this is legal to do and I would like to
know if we in this budget sess next budget session defund that that position if we don't fund it what are the ramifications >> well so what I was referring to was a discussion
with labor council that took place in close session I was not here for the bud budget session mentioned that this was discussed at. So I don't know where all of that went, but what I'm telling you is as Mr. Smaller just mentioned the the administration
handles personnel if there was a written terms of employment >> conditional offer of employment which is standard with every employee other writing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So there is a written at least a memorandum or or an offer. It was accepted by the employee at that point
on on terms that were in writing and understood. Once there's offer and acceptance, the consideration is the salary and and the employment package. That's a contract. It it's it's enforceable whether it's written, whether it's
however you formulate it. That's a contractual obligation that the the township has undertaken and that's within the the administration's prerogative. How the the minations of how it's funded are are handled that
that's something that the CFO has to has to manage within the confines of the overall budget. he has the prerogative to make changes to to different line items to to fit within what the obligations of the township are. If you
don't like that opinion, I apologize. You can ask Mr. Samero, Mr. Rivera, anybody else you like. I'm reasonably certain you're going to hear the same thing, but that's what I've got. >> Would one of those conditions of employment be that the that the position is funded?
Well, that's that's always the presumption, but it was it was obviously in the the initial preliminary budget. There was there was a line item for that position as it was explained to me. I don't go through every line like that,
but if it was in there at the initial uh preliminary introduction of the budget in which is done at Borg in January, then it's half the year, right? the person starting mid year. So whatever that $60,000,
if that full amount wasn't in the introdu introduced preliminary budget, then there's got to be some some shifting around done at the end of the year when transfers can be done. But it you can't it's not just the position is not just
eliminated because the council decides not to fund that specific line. So what would happen if this council decides not to fund that position? >> Can we be sued >> if Well, yeah. >> Well, I want to hear from the council for another year. But >> for this year, if we say we don't we had
not supported that position >> can change around, >> right? And >> you'll just find the funds from some other place >> at least for the rest of this year and then if the position is eliminated by ordinance, you know, that's another another issue. There's a bunch of ways to skin a cat, but at least for now, the
the administration is within its rights to proceed with this person war. >> Yeah. What we're trying to figure out are what are those other ways to skin the cat and what and what are you know what, you know, what really can we do? >> I think it's inappropriate to talk about
a person and their their employment in open public session right now. >> I think we're talking about eliminating a position. I think that is the most unethical thing I have heard >> only because we're not talking about >> we're not talking about any one person. >> We're not talking about performance per
se. We're talking about the position in the abstract. This is the only reason that I'm entertaining it. >> But I think >> this person can very easily be watching and hear and I I just think that's that's >> well I don't disagree. I mean, you know, I don't think it's something that we should contain.
the administration has taken the action it's taken becomes an issue for another day. >> Well, I'd just like to say that you may the the administration can offer a position but it cannot in my opinion cannot just bypass the required
approvals of the governing body. >> Yes, council president. >> But no approvals. >> We approved the the budget amount. We did. So I I think that's that's a good question is that >> when we go through this process, Greg,
>> we are >> we provide this detail of the positions and the salaries. Now the council I think sees it as not only approving an amount but also approving a position. So, I think what
you're saying is, hey, you could take $60,000 out, but can they do they have the power to say you cannot hire this position because we're not we're taking it out. >> The position the the table of organization, the the salary ordinance,
whatever your mechanism is to hire people if it's in there. And we were told at that meeting, I believe it was in April or May, that it it was >> it was >> and that's then the administration has the prerogative to hire the person at
the salary that is in the ordinance and and it and you find the money. There's $1x million in this budget. You you you know, you take a little from here, you take a little from there. Not everything is to the penny, you know, in its in its place on the spreadsheet,
>> right? So again, I think for everybody's edification, when the council goes through the budget hearings and they're making their changes, they're making changes to the amount, not to the actual individual titles. Like you can't say,
you could say take 120,000 out. You can't say take out deputy director. You can't hire a deputy director >> unless that's done by ordinance, you know, two readings and and it can be vetoed. you know, if it's if it's not uh on a veto proof for 41. So, yes,
correct, >> Councilwoman Castle. So, here but here's the biggest problem that we have and go back to past practice for years since I came to this council 2015. We ran these budget
hearings line by line, position by position. and if there was a position uh that the council didn't support, it got taken out. This year we have a new labor council or the past year since
we've been doing this. So, we're getting different advice, which isn't that his advice isn't wrong, but it but the way we've been uh practicing was is different because he doesn't have the history with us. So that's where I think we're having this this issue
>> disconnect. >> That's well that's a disconnect. So I don't know how you solve it. I I think we need to stop talking about it in case >> No, I agree. >> In case council does decide to do something in the future and it it gets problematic. Um but I think that's where
you have the disconnect because um as a I do agree with you the conversation labor council said that the administration was in their purview but again not having the experience of of
past practice. >> Yeah. Well, you're back you're back to past practice and and you know there certainly you know reasonable minds can differ about the the functions the the separation of powers in in the Faulner form of government. Uh but what you
can't differ on is the fact that the administration is entitled to hire positions that are in the table of organization in the salary ordinance and then you know how you go about funding it and whether it gets removed or any of that stuff is an issue for another day
should probably be a subject of conference and and collaboration. Um so we know where we're going before we come into a forum like this. But that's the way it is. And I I do think we should cut off this particular conversation.
>> Yeah. Council member Kobe, >> a close session. >> I was just about to say that that that the unspoken aspect of this is the I won't say terrible relationship between the mayor and the council, but it is a
very troubled one. And it could all be solved with collaboration. But it is it is frequently not this this position to my memory and I have a pretty strong memory was a I think a
total surprise at least to me and I think to some of the other council people that blew a big hole in in the budget and in the plans that we had that we had discussed before about not hiring at $120,000
but to hire at a at a lower level and have the person learn and increase the person's value over the next few years. And there were multiple discussions and I I thought the council made our
position clear. We did >> and and I'm not blaming anybody because you guys work for the mayor, but the the way that this was handled is is so far from uh so
far from appropriate and I think professional and and and a respectful relationship between the two. And it's just something that keeps going on and on and uh I just thought people should should know that as well. And my memory is the same. We had said we'd hire a
zoning official at a ele entry type level or or at a lower level, but we weren't going to hire high salaried employees because of our budgetary constraints. >> Just one last item. I assume
that being that this was tabled this is in for the next meeting when we do the budget under number nine non-conent items from previous meetings >> this will appear.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So I I'll make one last closing statement and and then we can put this to the bed. Um which is simply that as much as this department is overworked
and understaffed, it is interesting that we are talking about a position that is absolutely necessary that is essential to planning and development in our township.
uh of which we have a tremendous amount of developments forthcoming um that we would not want this department to be as efficient as it possibly can. So I think um that is something that we need to take into consideration. This is one of
the busiest departments. This is a functional necessity for this department to be uh and this department has a lot of complaints um about people not being responsive, people not returning phone
calls. And it's $60,000 salary for the remaining of the year is going to relieve some of that pressure and help us to be the best township that we can. I am 110% supportive. Okay, that note we'll move on.
>> Okay, so I have to go back to this was all done as part of the bills, >> right? >> And um you've answered my question that there was no payment for this position um in this bill. So that's not it. I guess I need to go back to each each and
every bill to see if there's a second. My first bill was to pull 191503 um because the medical director position h is not itemized. It's a job description in there. >> Is there a second?
>> If there is if there's no itemization, then we do not know what this individual is doing. >> We went over this. >> I understand we've gone over this and I'm pointing it out again. this last time when I pointed I asked if there was an itemized bill and I was told that it
would be forthcoming. I looked at it and it is a job description. >> So, as I I believe I said last time, but this is the half of the contract that we entered an agreement with Dr. Kelly and services are provided in the contract. This is this is the second payment of
one of the second of two payments. Correct. >> That is not that's not my question. we should be itemizing or he should be itemizing what services he's provided because again I ask every single time why is this not covered by car station
why why are we paying extra for care station what is the actual service that has been provided and I don't think it's too much for us as a governing body to request an itemized bit bill I have asked for that in the past for other
vendors and we have gotten that why would it be so difficult to just have an itemized bill of or a log of the care that he that this vendor is providing. >> The only thing I would caution is that you know it is medical treatment and
there are HIPPA issues. You certainly certainly you can't sure >> itemize the patients for which treatment was rendered but I suppose you could get what treatment was rendered on what date >> and what tests what whatever you know I
suppose that's but that's one reason why you wouldn't get an item >> I don't think we need to to have the the names >> you can't the names >> I'm just asking were services provided and on what days because this is supposed to be a 247 seven contract.
>> All right. So, >> the administrator is saying this is a a a general medical services contract. Uh what if I thought I saw >> it's on all services what it is. >> Mr. Smalda, could you clarify?
>> I'm hold on. >> So, I was going to ask let the council woman ask because that may it may lead into the conversation. >> Um I just recall this discussion from our last um conversation. It was my understanding that this is a contractual obligation of the township and that we
must have this uh vendor on call >> 24 hours, 7 days. It is a statuto requirement and if it is a statutory requirement, an obligation for the township whether he does anything or no thing, right,
>> we are obligated to pay. So, I'm fine with asking him to itemize whatever is eligible for under the law, but again, I think sometimes that might be an invasion of privacy, and that's not the obligation that we have to this
particular vendor. So, I don't understand why we would not pay him under the agreement that we've already had. Um, I think we should just go ahead and move >> the president. So, could I interject now, council president? >> Sure. So again, this and the
counciloman's right. We entered into an agreement. This contract was awarded. I don't know when it was awarded. In the job description, which was sent to everybody last meeting, it describes all the job description what he's supposed to perform. It doesn't go into detail to every single person. This is a contract
we entered into. This is the second payment of two. Um you either pay it or don't. That's the that that's my recommendation. Pay it or don't. So you're not you're it's not going to get itemized any much more than that. So, Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yeah. >> Whether or not this is an obligatory
requirement that we have a medical director, the salary for this is is determined by us. It is not set by anybody outside of us. And I think it is fair for us to see just like we asked for with other vendors who have a
regular um stipend that we have asked I have asked for itemization to show what are they actually doing in terms of taxes. Why shouldn't we have an itemization that of what was going on? This is a 247. It's supposed to be for
police, fire, EMS, DO, do and now we're putting the same same um vendor on for more services that will be $1,250 per firefighter. I'd like to understand
why some of this is not included in this and why we can't see an itemized bill before we pay it. I don't think it's that difficult to ask him to go back through his records and provide what services he provided to the town for the first six months.
>> Go ahead, Mr. >> I'm not sure if she's done. >> Okay. Do you want to go before Councilwoman Castle? >> I think next year I think next year in this professional service contract I'm going to add nauseium to it. >> Great. >> How to treat it. >> So So can I can I just interject?
>> Can I call on council and counseling? Go ahead. Go ahead, Kim. >> We got to move on, Councilwoman. We We've been through this meeting after meeting. It's the way the contract was set up. Make your motion. You didn't get a second. We got to move on. We got to move on.
>> There have been other instances. >> Excuse me. I still have the floor. Council, >> I understand you have. And in those instances, we agree. >> We agree. We're not agreeing. You lost your argument. So, that's it. We got to move on. Paul, there's no vote to call.
So go to your next bill, please. >> I'm making a motion to pull this bill until it's itemized. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Is there a second? >> Okay. Motion dies. >> Okay. >> Next bill. >> Next bill is to pull Millennials bill
for the exact same reason. >> Can you give me the bill number just >> 19156? >> 56 or 563. >> Can we get them? >> Maybe it is. >> Okay. Do do you have the amount
>> for $937.50 who raised them? >> All right. Uh is there a second on that? >> We used to get the list. >> We can I can motion dies. >> Yeah. But I'd like to make a comment >> regarding that. >> Go ahead.
>> Thank you. Is it possible as it relates to Millennium just to go back to them and ask them if they will start moving? >> We can do that. Just send us this administrative fee. This is administrative fee. We'll get that. >> They probably don't realize that. >> Sure that's the case. We don't have to
look for labor this housing. There wasn't a second. We're going to ask for information and we'll move on. >> Yeah, I'm sure they'll provide it. Go ahead, council. >> Um, the appraisals 191069. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, Mr. Neman advised me that was
through our uh tax attorneys who were um for appeals and they needed they needed the service to have these um these pe these properties assessed and that's that's part of the not to exceed. I think it was 33 or 35,000 was the contract. I I forget, forgive me for the
number, but this is a draw down from the not to exceed and it's for the services provided through our at our tax appeal attorneys to and they asked the the appraisers to do the services on their behalf. >> Okay. Um Denafhrio, I would like to ask
you why the DPW is not providing this service. >> Because we have a contract with Denafhrio to do the dog park and they do other areas in ancillary to in and around the executive drive. No, in this bill it it's just for the dog park. >> They do they go outside the dog park.
They they do that. We know that and I've checked with our people. So So >> councilwoman, what was the number for that one? >> 1 19205. >> I I couldn't find that. >> You didn't tell them to specify on the next bill. >> We added that on. >> Council President, no. I I want to be
disagreeing with you on this. You know, this is a contract that we have with Denafhrio. we speak about this particular landscape or that and and another one um for the service they provide. They entered in a contract, they're doing their job, we're paying it for them. I don't micromanage the contract. If if we don't want to award
to Denafhrio next year, then we don't award. But that's the that's the prerogative of the council. We have a contract we're utilizing for the services, >> pay the bill or don't. >> Understood. with this issue because we talk about this every personal vendetta against
this company like what is going on >> council woman I have no idea I don't know what this is >> this is about taxpayer money >> that agreed to pay >> this is about taxpayer money and I'm sorry that you don't understand that
>> I understand quite quite clearly that there was an agreement and that we are obligated to pay I mean when you have an agreement agreement and a contractual agreement and someone is performing the work. I mean, this is like me saying to a contractor that comes to my house,
"Oh, I know you were going to build my kitchen, but I don't want to pay you the $25,000 that we agreed on." Because that's just not how life works. >> The contractual agreement is bizarre. It's three hours with three men twice a
month blowing an area that has no trees and no grass. It's a dog park >> and they clean the poop off the >> No, they don't. >> And they have the parking lot. And guess what? That >> poop cleaners.
>> This is ridiculous. Okay. Make your motion to pull it. I make a motion to pull Denafhrio's bill 192085 and request that that there be some oversight as to why 3 hours is needed to
do that. >> I'm going to tell you right now, we're not doing it. >> I'm not going to do that. I trust that I trust that they're going to do the job and that's it. If they don't do the job, then we we get them for breach of contract. >> Is there a second? Okay, motion dies.
killing me. >> 25 minutes. >> I know. Um the next one, Councilwoman 1 190436. >> That was the director Well, I'll explain that. >> And I I just want to I just want to understand that again about the
interpretive signs. How did that error take place? >> Okay, we This is ridiculous. I Mr. Carbalo, you should not have to go over this again. It was an oversight. Okay. >> Okay. >> And one thing that you need to understand for every single one of this
construction projects, there are always oversightes. Nothing goes perfect. Nothing goes to plan. I hate to say it, but that's just the way it is. And like I said, I will speak to the contractor and we will see what we can do to make sure that we amend this interpretive signs.
>> Excuse me. Isn't 10% of all construction caught >> 10%. >> 10% more than that. Yeah, there's a there's >> there's always some type of change or update. You never know what's going to be behind a wall. You never know what's
going to be missed in an original plan or schematic, >> especially when you're dealing with existing um how to say this infrastructure. It is easier when you demolish and you build from scratch as when you try to do renovation to an existing building or site. And and it's
not anybody's in in particular era. It's an oversight. It's an oversight. It's an it's one of those things that you regret because you end up having to pay more, but it wasn't intentional and it's not a misuse of taxpayer dollars.
>> Okay. Can we move on, Miss >> Is there anything else on or are we finished? >> Any other questions for >> No, sit down. Council President, um, we have to find a better way to go over the bill list. You know, we have all answered on the internet.
>> We have a we have a system in place for the share drive where, you know, everything is up there and the council can, you know, write their questions and get their answers and we could have saved 25 minutes tonight. Um
so >> the the most important thing is that the and I think this is important for the public to understand is that there is a lot of work that we do behind the scenes before we even come to this status. The administration supports every answer
question asked >> and you all do that even up until we have this meeting if you have been unable to provide us with the answers in advance. >> Right. >> What is the most frustrating part about sitting here and wasting our 25 minutes
on questions that have already been answered is you don't even preface it with saying for the edification of the to the public. It is just a redundant exercise that is not useful for anybody's time. We're paying our professionals to sit here. So, thank
you. We do need to streamline this. So, I'm going to ask my council colleagues to please, if you have questions, especially detailed questions like this on the bill list or any other item, >> especially the bill list. Yeah, but especially with the bill list, just get them in in advance and try to get your
questions answered so that we don't >> so we don't spend >> are answered. They're already answered. And and just so we the um back up what the the clerk is saying, Madame Clerk, we put our bill lists and a lot of our
ordinances and reszos in prior to the 3:00 of Wednesday when it's due to her in the SharePoint so that you guys the council has the ability to start working on on a Tuesday. I did send out an an email recently asking for consideration, which most of the questions were sent in
prior to and I appreciate that. But our staff, it's vacation season, you know, and our staff isn't all here. So, so now we have people have to do double duty to try and answer these things. So, we're trying to, you know, and and a phone call, a phone call works better than the banter back here. >> Thank you. We do need to be sensitive to
that. So, let me ask my council colleagues to try to do that moving forward. Okay. Are we finished with the billers? >> Resolutions. Are any resolutions being pulled this evening? to approve the bill list. >> No, we're good. Go. No. No. >> We're okay.
>> No, no, no. >> Okay, let's get the resolutions. >> Yeah. Are any resolutions being pulled? >> Ready? >> Move to accept the consent agenda. Oh, we're not
>> before we uh the two resolutions >> the two resolutions that we probably should pull or yeah table for now or pull I don't know what the right term is >> amend we have to amend the one from the floor for the the fire chief
>> okay so that's this one >> and I didn't strip this yet >> and I do want to pull um 207 >> 207-26 is the appointing Nicholas Gillow chief
>> and I want to pull 20826 the resolution for the professional services >> 206 is pulled >> resolution no >> 207 >> I'm sorry 20 >> 208 >> 208-26 >> right that's what you want >> that's pulled by the administration
Okay. Oh, you're pulling that. >> Yeah, we have to make we have to make an adjustment to that. So, we want to make sure you're aware of that. >> You're pulling two pulling discuss. Yeah, we have to make an amendment to that. Just a slight amendment. >> So, I'm going to pull 208. >> Right. I have that.
>> Um, I'd like to pull 209 for discussion. >> Okay. Any others? Okay. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> So move. >> I'll second. >> 208 207. >> Uh all in favor.
>> Any opposed. The consent agenda is implemented. >> I thought we were pulling 209 for questions, not >> It was >> for questions. >> Yeah. No, it was pulled by Councilwoman Ruden, but you can certainly ask your question. >> No, no, she she said she had questions.
She wasn't >> You You had questions. You weren't pulling it. I I pulled it for questions. >> No, no, you don't have to pull it. >> If you have questions, you don't have questions or >> I want to pull it. That's fine. It was
pulled. >> Okay. Council councilman >> I was just going to say pull in this situation means a very distinct thing >> and question means a totally different
thing >> right >> so I just encourage my colleagues to use the word that is more appropriate for what they want to do right >> you want to pull it say pull it but if you don't want to pull it please don't use that word just say have a question >> and for the public if we pull something
it's because we want a separate vote on. We probably have questions and want a discussion and we might not want it to go right. >> Correct. >> Okay. Just so that everyone understands. >> Okay. So 207-26 a resolution appointing Nicholas Gillow
chief of fire effective July 1st 2026. >> So smile. >> I apologize. I'm scroll down real quick to resolution. So on the cover page, we apologize the language was um a little different than
what we needed to. So um it's just a just a typo in section >> third whereas >> the third whereas >> okay >> so whereas the base salary of the fire chief shall be 230,000 >> one before that.
>> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. And then there was another one John too that was >> Yeah. and then the now therefore be resolved. >> So, so be it further resolved. So, unfortunately what happened was we put that the fire chief his term was put in there till June 30th, 2029. It's not his
term. This is just for the the term of the contract. The fire chief has been duly appointed. He took a test for civil service. He was authorized through a list and promulgation to serve as the fire chief until um uh until forever or
age 65, whatever comes first. So um and he's he has that ability. So we needed to change that language. So we circulated to you that change. Um so that that's the amendment we need to make to this and that's what we're seeking so that you just understand that
this was this was just a a typographical error copy. Where is that? >> The other the older one. >> Yeah. No, the new one. >> So both of them say the same thing. We'll continue. >> No, there's another line. I'm sorry. I'm trying to find it. >> Here it is. P.
So if you look further down it says be it further resolved Nicholas Skillow as chief of fire will have an employment agreement effective January July 21 2026 and it's for a term um I'm sorry the one above now where therefore be resolved by the mayor and
council town of West Orange County that Nicholas Kilo Gillow is hereby appointed the position of chief of fire for the town of West Orange effective July 1st 2026. So it's establishing that he is the chief. He's going to remain the chief. And then the next um be further down talks about the contract and the
salary. >> So we're separating the employment and the salary. >> Did I do that right? >> You're separating the appointment as fire chief which does not have an end um unless it's subject to his age out or
retirement or removal by cause or whatever with the employment agreement. that is >> has a definitive term to it. >> Right? >> So when the employment agreement ends, he still remains the fire chief, >> right?
>> He'll have to renegot he'll have to renegotiate his salary in 2021 >> for his his contract, >> but he remains the chief in in effect. >> In the original form, it's it it made it seem like his appointment as fire chief
would end on June 30th. I understand it. I was >> we wanted to clarify that because under civil service he is the duly appointed authorized fire chief. >> We have to amend it. >> We came in three years. >> So yes. >> So is there a motion to accept that amendment? >> Yes.
>> Second. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Kovia. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. Yes. Okay. The motion >> for the adoption of the uh resolution. A second.
>> Okay, hold on. Okay, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Fovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman William, >> yes. >> Council President Sparkpa, >> yes. >> Congratulations to our chief. >> Again.
>> Again. >> We have many parties. Yeah. >> Has this already been updated on the website? The >> Yes. Okay. Did I do think I did? I'll have to check. I have to double check that council, but I
think I did it. But it's okay. >> Yeah, I'll I'll check. I I could check it right now, actually. Um, okay. 20826, resolution authorizing a professional services agreement with Dr. Michael Kelly to provide testing and screenings
pursuant to NJSA 52, col14-17.29, etc. for colon, lung, bladder, oral, thyroid, skin, breast, cervical, testicular, and prostate cancers in an amount not to exceed $1,250 per firefighter over a three-year
period. Yeah, I pulled this because this had been a real source of discussion and some controversy over the last couple of years with other councils and um there was a feeling that the group that we had contracted to do this had uh significant
expertise in oncology and would be preferable. So I'd like to know if why we're not continuing to use that the group that's done it. All right. So, so we put this out to bid um and the um we received two bids and
this bid was actually one the the most responsive and lowest bid. Um Dr. Kelly is available. Um the reason one of the other reasons was that the other group that we did contract a couple years ago with, they are only set up for a specific amount of time each year.
Typically, it's one week or possibly two total. So that was what was explained to me by the chief. And so if our firefighters aren't readily available for those dates, they have to wait a full year. Dr. Kelly has said that anybody any firefighter who is eligible
and we'll and I sent you the fact sheets on the eligibility of of who can go to see get seek this um examination. He would accommodate them on their whenever they're available, whether it be today, tomorrow, Christmas Eve, if if he's working Christmas Eve or uh any other
day. Um, so we we specified that. So this is a complete reimbursement from the state of New Jersey. This is not any out-of pocket of taxpayers. This is a state requirement. State statute is a law. We have to provide it. No
firefighter uh who is serving under three years is eligible to to uh go into this particular program be examined originally. uh once a firefighter who is eligible to be examined, they can only be examined once every 3 years. So it
prevents an over um um over an extension of I guess the funds and um and they have to wait the threeear cycle. So we have had approximately I think 38 to 40 firefighters already take advantage of the system. We have a lot of young firefighters who are not eligible yet.
So um so while we have an NTE in here, this is really not an this is similar to Mr. Diniac explained about like considering something similar to escrow. We don't feel that we're going to get to that exact number there, but um we are providing the service to our
firefighters because it's it's a requirement. It's a necessity. >> Oh, two questions. Um did the firefighters themselves have a problem with the scheduling? >> No, that that you mean with Dr. Kelly? >> No, with the scheduling of the other company. >> Yes, they did. That's I I spoke to one of the union presidents and he advised
me that it was a very limited window and it was difficult for those who wanted to get it. So they so that's why when we said the based on the the um the professional services that contract or the the bid that was brought back to us and the one it was actually cheaper than
the other and two the availability that was the decision decision to go with with somebody who was >> that makes sense to me because I was concerned because you know I had done some research on this over the years and just what was the difference in the pricing? >> What was it? Um, I think it was I believe it was I believe it was $900 for
the initial price for the initial test and then there's other services that add up to about $1,200 I think or $1250 and and I believe the other one was $1250 a flat fee because I believe if it's in the FAQs that that they they cannot we're not going to be reimbured for more than $1,250. The state's not going to
reimburse 1250. Okay. >> So, >> all right. Right. So, as long as the firefighters are and this is what they feel will meet their needs on the >> I could tell you that the chief was comfortable with this and one of the union presidents was also I spoke to them personally the other day. >> Okay, great. And Counciloman Castle,
>> I've personally talked spoken with firefighters in years past as well. Dr. Kelly's very accommodating to them. When they go to his office, he takes them right away. I this you know I've never
had a complaint and I again I get a little defensive when I hear that you know there was other issues where I there I've never heard of an issue with Dr. Kelly other than a a letter that he was asked to uh write by the former CFO
years ago which wasn't on him. So, >> well, you know, the firefighters have a special place in my heart, and I just want to make sure they're getting the best service. >> Appreciate the service. >> Okay, great. >> Okay. >> I just wanted to raise the issue that this is a three-year contract. And has
has he already done this service beginning this year? >> This is not a three-year contract. It should be a one-year contract. It's for a three-ear >> or you can only receive the testing once every three years. Correct. >> Not a three-year contract. >> Not a three-year contract. Oh, sorry.
Okay, that's okay. Good. I'm fine. >> Is there a motion to approve 2086? Motion >> to approve. >> I'll second it. Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President.
>> I'm sorry. I have a question regarding the testing. Um I will because >> we harped on every three years is when you can have this testing done. But we also know that sometimes cancer
can not be detected one year and then perhaps the next year. So even though they can't get this testing through Dr. Kelly, is this something how how would you what would you do if you were a firefighter and you start? So, I mean, I
would say if you if you have our health benefits, you know, you go to your own doctor and and you would, >> you know, >> try to get your your own screening through your own doctor and see if our plan would would approve it. Uh, if there was, I don't I don't approve
medical claims, but you'd have to, I guess, give a good reason to get it approved. The three-year um window is because it's a state funded program. just to give you a quick rundown of like how it works is I get the invoices from from the facility and then I go into
this website NJDCFS or whatever it is and I have to put in everybody's name and identifying uh identification numbers and the cost of the service what they had done. I have to submit copies of the invoices and
then you know a week or two later I get an email from the state that says hey I accepted 21 out of 22 go back and change this one or something and then once everything's approved I get a check and only then after I deposit the check into
I budget reimburse the health benefits I pay the facility so we don't even front the money for the facility we we get the reimbursement first >> no thank you thank you very Yeah. >> Okay. 20926. Resolution authorizing the
appointment of Dawn M. Donahghue as chief judge of the Municipal Court of the Township of West Orange effective July 1st, 2026 for a term ending on June 30th, 2029 and an annual base salary of $95,000 subject to a 3% annual increase.
Councilwoman Rudy. >> Yes. Um, first of all, I think she the the judge is wonderful and I'm um very proud to have her as our our chief judge of the municipal court. I do not remember discussing and this is a very
big boost in salary to begin with. Um I do not remember the discussion of a 3% salary increase. >> So this was discussed in executive session and Mr. Rivera may put this
resolution together based on the conversation. He he asked for authorization in that and that's what he put it out and we we said that's what this resolution is placed that way. It's 95,000. The judge does not receive pension. She does not receive any health
benefit. She doesn't receive any um any other stipen other than with with this compensation and vacation and I believe personal days, right? I believe something something to that effect in six days. Um the the this was the mutually agreed upon
like I said in the in the meeting and um I think that's basically what we we said we would pay her at and um I think that was >> by statute it's a three-year appointment. >> It's threeear appointment. Yeah. >> Council woman Castleina. So a question because this is when I was away on
vacation. So it's not again no no issue with the the judge or with an increase. My issue or question is the again I wasn't privy to the conversation so bear with me there.
She's not on this position won't be on the salary guide. >> This is so yeah. So the 3% I I should have added to this. The 3% is part of the salary guide. It's part of the management salary guide which is currently in effect that all managers or people within the management are
currently scheduled to have a 3% raise other than the fire chief which was through his contract agreement. This is not a contract. This is the salary guide. So we don't have a contract with her. It's just this is a salary. >> So why does okay so she's on the salary guide. Why does it number one have to be
through resolution and number two is she subject to cola? So she will she get the 3% and a cola? >> No, that's the 3% is all she receives. And the reason that this has to be approved that this is an advice and
consent position. The mayor places this position for your consideration and you're either going to vote it up or vote it down as as the as the chief uh judge of the municipal court. So, it needs your it needs your consent for her to be appointed. And once once and if if
this is successful tonight, then the judge will be sworn in um fairly soon with an effective date of July 1st. >> So, I'm just Okay. So, I get all that. I just don't understand why it's like if she's on a guide and we set her on the guide, why does it have to say 3% on the
rest? >> The guide is the rest of the guide is 3%. And this was again this was all this was put into place because this was the direction that was given to Mr. River. So we and we we did the introduction of the of the salary ordinance the last
meeting. Tonight is the second reading and if it if it's successful this will match up to this the the salary guy that's up for consideration. >> So this position is 95 to this year and then next year >> it's 95 plus 3% >> plus 3% the year after another 3% but it
won't be It won't be an extra bump. It's not like there's they're going to move up a step. >> No, there's there's not a salary step. There's not a step. No steps. >> That's the part I'm wanted to There's no steps in this. It's just based on the >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. Okay.
>> I move for the adoption of 20 >> 209. >> A second. >> You councilwoman Castelino? >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes.
>> The motion carries. >> Thank you very much. And I know that on behalf of the judge, I know she's very happy to be serving this town and you know, we're very happy that she appreciate. We appreciate that. I had a very nice conversation with him and also thank you all to the council.
>> Holding down the fort uh after the uh untimely bin judged out. much appreciated because um that wasn't part of this compensation. >> Ordinance is on second and final reading. 2975-26
an ordinance amending chapter 2 administration section 40.2 judge of the municipal court powers and of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange to consolidate the judge of the municipal court
positions. Is there a motion to introduce on second? Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Council, I'm sorry. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President,
>> yes. >> Uh, okay. Uh, public public hearing. Sorry. Would anyone in the public like to comment on this ordinance? Seeing none, >> post public comments.
>> Okay. Is there a second? >> A second. >> Councilwoman Castelino? >> Yes. >> Councilman Kokoviac? Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden? >> No. >> Councilwoman Williams? >> Yes. >> Council President Scarf? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, is there any discussion?
Okay. Is there a motion to approve? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President,
>> the motion carries. >> Okay. Uh 2979-26, an ordinance creating a reclassification and salary schedule of certain Township of West Orange employees, setting forth their titles, classification, and salary
ranges, and adopting a salary guide, and establishing the employee status as a township employee under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of Personnel. Is there a motion to introduce on second final? >> Second. >> Councilwoman Castelino,
>> yes. Councilman Koviaak. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. Council President Scarpa. >> Okay. Public hearing. >> Okay. >> Move to close. >> Anybody? >> Wait a minute. We didn't even call for
public hearing here. >> Maybe in my head. I'm trying to move us forward. >> All right. Anybody in the public want to comment? Seeing none, I'd like to make a motion to close public comment. Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes.
>> Counciloman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, yes. >> Council President, okay. Is there a motion to adopt? >> Yes. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino,
>> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Councilwoman Williams. >> Council President Sparpa. The motion carries. >> Okay. 2980-26. An ordinance amending and supplementing
chapter 7 traffic section I guess to be determined of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange to establish a residential permit parking at Nutman Place, Osborne Place, Pot Place, Quinnby Place, Rigs Place, and Swain Place for a
limited time pursuant to a pilot program. >> Why is that even there? That should have been removed. >> This is why no >> Cuz it's on second reading and we have to vote it down, >> right? You never voted. You did. You voted to carry 5. So I looked that up because that's a different way of
saying, you know, motion to approve or and it it is an approval. So I had to keep it on the agenda quickly, right? Okay. >> So if you don't want to, you know, you get rid of it as ignore it. Don't you don't have to make any motions. >> But I have to call for it.
>> Okay. Go ahead. So, is there a motion to approve? I'm sorry, introduce on second and final. So, there's going to be nothing about PET on >> No, the new there's a new order. >> Yeah, there's a number a brand new one under first reading a different number.
This is the old one that's slipped. >> All right. So, seeing none, motion dies. >> Okay. So now, ordinance on first reading 2981-26, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, traffic section 13, parking
prohibited at all times on certain streets of the municipal code of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? >> Motion to introduce. >> Now, let's make some amendments. >> Hold on. I have to call for the vote. Councilwoman Castleina. Oh, do you want
to have a discussion before I call for the vote to introduce? No, we can we can introduce and then we can we can call for them. >> Yes, >> this where the bus station is. >> Let's let's talk about that. Once you introduce and vote on the introduction, it's introduced as is.
>> Okay. >> So, I would suggest discussion first. >> But this is this isn't the ordinance for fel. >> No, this is a different one. >> Different ordinance. >> This is a different one. >> All right. And this you want to make amendments to this one.
>> Stand avenue. This is where the So my question was >> the prohibited parking within 100 ft of the northern in um I thought our um we had been told it needed to be 50 ft. So I just wanted to question why
it's a little different. I apologize. >> This is a isn't this where the bus station is? So, this ordinance is basically the same thing that it got approved a couple of months ago for Standish Avenue when we made it a oneway. Once again, I overlooked that one of the
businesses has a double gate and it has large trucks. >> Okay. >> So, it's impossible when the trucks come out to actually make a right turn >> if a car is parked in front. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's the reason why we're extending it from the 50t to the 100 ft. >> Okay. No problem. Thank you.
>> Relax. Thank you. Let's get this going. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> For introduction, yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, the motion carries. >> 2982-26,
an ordinance amending and supplementing Chapter 7 traffic section 10.1, stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets. Section 10.2, stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets. on certain days. Section 11, parking time
limited on certain streets during certain hours. And section 13, parking prohibited at all times on certain streets of the Municipal Code of the Township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? >> Hold on. Let's discuss first because
there are going to be amendments that we will introduce as a >> No, this is not this one. That's the next one's coming up. Next one. Yeah. Not this one. The next one. You're jumping the gun. >> That's fine. >> Yeah. Okay. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? >> I'll make a motion to introduce >> a second. Okay.
>> And then after we vote, I want to make >> So, you have to comment prior comment now. You want to go ahead? >> Yeah. So, I I was on the phone today with the our board of member, Mr. Stevenson. Um,
didn't get a chance to drive up there until today on this. So, >> which one? >> There's been an issue with the kiss and go line up at Redwood School.
Hopefully, this will solve it. But parents, I've asked them to communicate this to their parents when this goes through because we now move to have 10-minute parking on Redwood Avenue
across street from the school. lifting some restrictions on some of the side streets uh in enforcement. And so they're going to have to communicate with their parents because if a parent wants to go in the school and stay longer than 10 minutes,
they're going to have to park them on the side streets or in the parking lot if there is parking available. Otherwise, you know, they're going to be able to walk their kid in and uh come back and move so the next parent could have a spot. have to see. >> It's been in nothing but a nightmare
over there since we changed this and we'll see if this this may be amended again. So, um I'm supportive of this tonight. We got to get it going so the signs can get in place for this beginning of school year. But I've
asked, you know, the the chief and administration and Miss Garbala to, you know, we just we got to keep an eye on it to make sure this definitely solves the issue uh up at Redwood School. Being a longtime Redwood parent,
uh park across street from Redwood Avenue, hight tailing it to school and back may take longer than 10 minutes. So, um, and I know enforcement, we're not prepared to mark tires. >> I don't think >> like we do down like we do down the
shore for the beach. Um, but I do appreciate the time the administration has put into this because all those signs that went up uh did cause issues in the neighborhood. So, I think this this
could possibly solve it, but we'll test will come in September, so we may need another amendment. >> Yes. >> The only question I had was will we be able to repurpose the signs that we installed to move them to another location in the township?
I'm always trying >> Oh, that's a good idea. >> Yeah. Is it >> I believe the signs that we're going to remove from like Nicholas Avenue and others areas is going to be reused for this. It's the same thing. >> Okay. They're using the same um >> you know 8 to 10 in the morning and 3 to
5 in the afternoon during the school days only. Right. >> Just out of curiosity, how much do those signs cost? Do you have a off the top of your head >> how much sign? >> Oh, >> I think they're cost like $50 each. >> 15 or 50? >> 50. >> 50. Okay.
>> The biggest problem is the lead time. >> The lead time. The time that it takes for us to get those special made signs. Oh, >> our staff installs >> our our staff >> our staff installs the sign. Yes. >> Excellent. Great. >> I I would like um administration to
check with Mr. Johnson and our recreation department because our wreck uses those fields. At what time uh you know they are in use at I am I would like to know that. Um being that this goes to 5:00 which I think is too late.
Um get again we could always amend it but I just want to make sure the parents are able to you know park or residents are able to park uh if those fields are in play. Again the whole idea of doing this is to not to force people to dart
across the street from somewhere else because they can't park in one area. So when we make these decisions and we look at these items I just want to make sure we have all the information. So we could check with the recreation department as well. We'll check with them. I just don't know if they actually have it
right now cuz school hasn't started. I don't know what the schedules are. >> Well, they know their spring schedule. So, >> well, it's spring, but we have fall schedule with soccer. >> Yeah, soccer's on the other side, so I think we'll be okay there, but I'm worried. You know, we have time, but again, >> I will ask Director Johnson to respond
to your >> Okay. Thank you, Miss Corb. Did you want to talk to us? Did you have any >> um Let's see. We met at least three times out in the field to discuss this ordinance.
The last time that we were out there, um it was clear that the kiss and go lane is not functional or at least it doesn't function the way that it's supposed to. Um everybody came to the consensus that we will do the parking across the street to
prevent what happened 15 years ago when a student lost its life. Um, I remember it was discussed during that time that we were going to do a 5-minute drop off and then we decided to go for 10 minutes. Um,
the parking is definitely going to go from Woodland Avenue to Nicholas Avenue. We're parking at least I will say 5 to 10 feet after the first driveway at the one home where there seems to be an issue because there's always u I will say parents parking or blocking
this resident's driveway. Um, also there's going to be parking across the street from the elementary school from Nicholas Avenue to Canon Street and also from Canon to Ellis. Uh, the idea is that parents will have a choice uh either from Nicholas to Woodland to use
the U crossing guard at the intersection of Woodland and Redwood Avenue. And the same thing would be from either from Ellis to Canon or from Pinnacle to Canon. They could also use the crossing guard located at Canon Street. We're eliminating the parking at
the dead end of Redwood Avenue u to prevent I would say a flood of parents basically parking at that side of the Redwood Avenue and crossing across Woodland Avenue which seems to be a challenge sometimes I could see for
the crossing bar and to basically minimize the amount of crossings at that intersection we decided to make that one no parking Okay, Councilwoman Castalino, >> I I forgot to mention also and I apologize, Miss Carbala. U Mr. Stevenson
had asked because obviously he's a board member and a parent there. I'm a former parent. Um coming up from Woodland Avenue um towards uh Prospect going up the hill that way. when you go around the Redwood
school parking lot as you go from Woodland um and it kind of like bends there's parents that go to make that right onto Redwood Avenue should there be a stop sign there so that you know we
actually did an RFP okay >> as per the many meetings that we had out there and they all requested that this intersection be made basically like an always stop like I explained to them I cannot just make it an always stop there has to be warrants that need to be met
as part of the uh MUTCD or the manual of uniform traffic devices. >> Um >> the consultant is expected to start once the school starts. I can do anything now. >> Okay. >> Um so once the school starts in September, I'm hopeful that hopefully by
the beginning of October, I should have a report in hand whether or not this intersection warrants an allway stop. I know there is actually like almost like a blind spot there. Um, but you also got to notice too, like it doesn't help the fact that you have a shed um right at
the uh >> Yeah. >> entrance of the horseshoe driveway where the where the uh buses drop off the students. >> What whose shed is that? >> Redwoods the schools. >> Can we ask I'm I'm I'm good. >> Can we ask them to move?
>> I'm gonna I'll take care of it. I mean, truthfully, the the purpose of having a kiss and go lane in a school is for parents to utilize the kiss and go lane. Unfortunately, how would I say this? The kiss and go lane builds up in the morning because
they're only given a 10-minute window to drop off. They truthfully need at least I would say half hour. >> Yeah. >> So, maybe they could start at 8:15 in the morning. Unfortunately, uh that's not under their contractual agreement and right now they only have
basically one person to handle the entire I would say cars as they drop off students and so it takes a long time. I was out there and it be 9:00 and they would still be dropping. >> I've been there at that point the kids
are already late because schools classes starts at 8:45. So, this is the best or the most consensious um approach that we're trying to do, but once again, unrealistic and I'm going to give you the facts. If they don't use it for the
10 minutes like it is intended to, um, and they just decide to just park wherever they want and basically cross wherever they want, the problem is not going to go away. the intent of the kiss and go lane so
that every parent will be basically diverted to that area to safely drop off their child. But given the fact that there is no staff to direct anybody, um we came up with this to assist the
school. And again, >> again, yes, there was also a discussion about having the drop off on the opposite side of the street, basically immediately adjacent to the school, which it would have been preferred because in that way when the students the street
>> Exactly. However, there is nobody there to receive the child when it's being dropped off. So, it doesn't really serve as a kiss and go lane. So, to make it somewhat safer, we're located the uh the parking across the street from the Redwood School. No parking adjacent to
the school. And let's hope that what we were told that everybody uses the crossing guards at these two locations is indeed true. And I I just want to share my colleagues just for a lesson learned in the future.
Um the reason why they don't have enough staffing is because since you know I haven't been there in 2015, I'm not pointing fingers, but you know the teaching staff used to be there longer and it was removed in a negotiation. So
sometimes when you know you think you're saving, you know, money or whatever cases for a negotiation, there's long-term effects of that's something that could happen. And and that and this is one of those effects uh that is unfortunate for the school district
because the principal is really really out there uh on her own now where you know when when my kids went that that kiss and go lane that baby moved. It went in that it went quick. the teachers were out there and they have plenty of
all hands on deck. Um, and you know, they have to work that out. In the interim, um, I I'm grateful to administration. Uh, I know my colleague went up there. I was away. I could not be at the meeting, unfortunately. Um, because I would have definitely
recommended uh, at least 15 minutes. uh being a former parent and and knowing how long it takes to get a a seven and a eight or nine or 5year-old over to the other side of the street and back. Uh just realistically
uh you know and chief but the chief needed to put something down so they can move parents along. Uh otherwise to get a perfect uh it would not be in time for school year. So we really need to pass this tonight. Uh well we did or pass on
the next reading. uh school has to get notifications out there as I recommended to my uh board of ed colleague and um you know they got to make this work. Um it's just for the safety for all the children. Just for note my you know my
my daughter was in the class with the little uh with the child that passed uh or the grade that passed that year and that was that was really sad and tough. So, we got to keep our school safe and I appreciate all the time the
administration has spent on this because this is a lot of time, but it's worth it. >> I've worked at Redwood School and there, you know, there may be a a way to get around that. I don't know. The union can talk with the teachers, but the teachers are required to stay a half hour after school. Not anymore. >> So, yeah, from we can't leave till
quarter to 4. We have to stay a half hour after school. So perhaps if the teachers wanted to come in in the morning instead, that would be a really fine solution to the problem. And I'm sure you'd get volunteers, but that's something the union would have to talk to. >> Yeah, >> you might want to bring up when you talk
to them. >> I I I brought up already, >> council person. >> Yes. >> Um I I appreciate that that suggestion. Um this is not the ideal solution at
all. Um, we are in fact creating another problem by creating a 10-minute drop off, which we don't have the manpower to oversee this and or to enforce this. It's never going to be a 10-minute drop off. We have the perfect solution. We
have the kissandgo lane. It was set up years ago. It used to work perfectly. We're just a little bit short on manpower. All we need to do, the safest thing for our children is to have somebody there 15 minutes early. And and
the uh one of the PTA presidents said um said possibly they could help fund raise for that or they could they could pay for it for one year. That would be the safest and the smartest solution. having these children cross the street at you
know all of these crossings and potential drop offs. It's not going to make it any quicker. It just takes a few people out of the mix. There just has to be a better solution. This this does not seem to be the better the better or the best solution. >> I don't disagree. I actually was told I
I have brought it up to their attention. You need to start drop off at 8:15 in the morning. If you do that by 8:45, >> you're done. >> You're done. And I'm sure teachers would come in early so that they can leave at the end. >> That's not what I was told it was not
part of their contractual agreement. >> We could figure out the the PTA and could possibly fund raise. There could be another solution. >> That's del thinking, you know, council. No disrespect, but here's the reality. We have to talk in reality. And the
reality is people go to work, people run late, people don't always follow what we need them to do. the police can't be out there babysitting everyone. I agree with you that this this will help, but we you took away you
restricted parking in on all the streets all the way surrounding this school. You you parents have nowhere to go. You have people like you ever drive your kid in the school in the morning, you know, you have a kid have a bad day. Mommy, can you walk me in? The kids's crying hysterical in the car. Stuff like that
happens all the time. You're not going to sit on the kiss and go lane while your kids not getting out of the car. You're going to have to walk your kid in. You have little kids. These are a reality situation. You have the kid that's bringing their cupcakes to school that day or their class project. People
walk kids in. This is the, you know, this is the reality of what our parents have to face. We're trying to make it safe. You restricted. So now the least they'll be able to park on Canon and Nicholas and walk down to the school like they used to be able to do. I agree
with you. Not crossing over Woodland Avenue is a catastrophe waiting to happen. Um but we do have a crossing guard on Canon Street and we also have another crossing guard on Woodland Avenue and hopefully with those stop sign looking there that will make it
safer. But you have a lot of kids in Redwood School. that kiss and go lane is a long long time going because there's a many bodies in that school dropping off. Um and and and that's it. I'm just gonna, you know, I speak from experience
of being a parent there and um that's, you know, this is what we're dealt with. Same thing with in the valley with Satan Hall. You know, this is great. Well, going to block these kids off. Um but again, it's it's we're going to have that conversation in a minute. You have kids that come to school late and they
get crazy and they park wherever and we're trying to deal with that. Uh and and you know, god forbid there's an accident on 280 or somewhere else that our cops have to get to. All bets are off because they can't be at all these schools in the morning. >> Okay. Council,
you know, I I often get accused at this table of not listening to the professionals. And right now we have our professionals saying this is not the best solution. No. And this is not and and that we have another solution that would work which is just figure out how
to get some sort of staffing 15 minutes earlier. Safest thing for our students. And I I think that I mean we've discussed to the school board. Believe me it was expressed to the school board. >> We have discussed this. I think it's
really time to take the take this to a vote or to the my school board. >> We take it to a vote or >> Yeah, we can't necess to do. We're trying to get out of here at 10:30 today. >> Okay. Breaking records. >> All right. Is All right. So, there's a
motion and a second just a vote. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. Council President. >> Okay, the motion carries. >> Okay. 2983-26,
an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, the traffic section to be determined of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange to establish a residential permit parking at Pilot Place for a limited time pursuant to a pilot program.
>> Okay. The Monday, the Friday. If I may, I I I think we're going to omit section A, right? It's not going to be a pilot, >> right? No pilot. >> So that's that's section A of the uh whereforce. Are we okay with the definitions? >> Yes,
>> it's in the whereas we have to get rid of that. >> Well, yeah, that I'm not as worried about the wherees. We can go back to that. But it's the substance is really the most important thing. So I'm just going to direct your attention to the section 7-47.2.
two parking apart from zone 12. Let's get through that. The rest of it will fall right into >> and then maybe we could just make the motion to get rid of all the whereas all the um all the all of the um the uh pilots wherever it says the word
pilot. >> So just from experience if if we >> go first potatoes will follow. So >> just let us know what the motion should right. So um so I'm I'm omitting uh
capital A. Anybody have any uh discussion or or comments on capital B residential parking decim? >> Yes. >> Um the other the other um streets in that area each got up to four parking
>> um decals. Yeah. >> For each home. And that's what this should be as well. And frankly, you don't need four visitor passes. It's a little overkill. Two visitor passes is fine. >> Is that a concession? >> This is only between 8 and 4 and that is
not a time when there are a lot of a lot of visitor passes that are that are needed. >> Well, we don't know because there's a lot of sold by residents. I'm just >> and some people I think might need more because a lot of people get deliveries and
services in a kind of a orderly f. So just reading through residential parking decals shall be limited to residents of peel out place. We're okay with >> yes >> for vehicles registered to residential units located on house. We're good with that. No.
>> Well, you don't have an Yes. >> So we're going to have cars registered to >> No, that means that it's an unlimited number of vehicles. >> You can't do per unit residential unit. >> Unlimited number of vehicles for residential units. So if if a >> they're single
>> if one home has has seven vehicles, they're going to get seven. >> So that's that's what we're going through. So we want to put a limit on how it should be per >> four of >> I mean I would but that's a a single family homes there and most people don't have more than
>> well that's what all the other streets have. >> Okay. So let's make it consistent. >> They have four unit four. When you say residential unit, that means apartment, that means home, that means >> No, this street has the single family. >> Her address. >> That's not an issue there. >> Her address.
>> Well, how Okay, so I I was going to say, is there not one multifamily home on Pa? There's got to be at least one. >> I don't know, but the >> there are >> I I think there is at least one. So, I think before we make this ordinance, I
I'm I walked the street just the other day. There's at least one at least one. So, if we're going to be specific in this language, we have to make it suitable for the unit that is a multifamily. >> So, but I'm going to guess that in the
multif family, each unit will not have four or more >> vehicle. There's four. Fair to say? >> So, do we want to limit it to to building or per living unit or h how does the council want it
>> per living unit? I think it should be per living unit because >> well legal per living unit. I'm going to make sure they >> the way it >> if it if it's a multifamily property >> it says per registered >> it's going to h it's going to have to be
documented that it's a two family or a three family and if it's a two family then they get per unit and if there's an illegal apartment which I believe my colleague is trying to reference then they wouldn't be entitled >> illegal you're not entitled to anything
>> anything right that's what I'm saying >> we don't have to address that because by definition illegal units don't fit. >> That's perfect. Yes. You have a basement apartment that you're not supposed to have. You don't get it. >> A registered homeowner. >> Okay. And and are we
>> in agreement that maximum of four stickers per unit? Four vehicles per residential unit. Per legal residential unit. >> Yes. Yes. >> Everybody's in. Okay. So, we're >> up to a term for that.
or vehicle like home >> reser okay uh and visitor passes we want to limit to two is that >> dude what is the what is the consensus what is what well let's not say no >> um just >> um can can somebody
what happens on the other streets that have permits Do they have four? They have four princess. >> They just get four. >> They have four all together whether it's visit. So here here's what I to my understanding maybe the chief could attest to this. Do they get a pass?
>> Guess they get they get a pass. Four passes that they put in their car. They're not getting these special decals. They're just putting the cards. Is that what they pass? >> You know what are they doing online? They have guest passes now.
>> So, so to my knowledge in the past, besides the parking permit issued to the resident's vehicle, some streets had visitor passes that were just like a placard that they would give to a visitor um and put in their car separate
from the parking permit that the resident is issuing. >> This isn't what they did with the Glennon and Oakidge. Yeah, >> I was on hillside. We only had four passes period >> of what is consistent throughout because
that's the biggest issue that we've also heard a complaint to as well is that one street has one thing, another street has the other thing. I am >> I think >> I'm a previous >> people need visitor passes. >> I'm but I've lived there and and Hillside doesn't have visitor passes.
They have four passes per house >> and says visitor passes and and they it was it's been articulated that people have professionals coming to their home. They need places to park. They need the visitor passes. >> Here's the thought. >> Well, so just so so we're clear, the way
this is currently written is you get a sticker for the resident vehicle and and a a portable pass for the others. And and I think that's I mean just intuitively that's the best way to do it because you don't want residents handed their right pass to a plumber while
they're you know you got to keep the resident vehicles kind of static right right so >> tell me how you want to turn >> I think Ford should >> but here's my question on on that because I've heard this in the past you got to make it where they're you know
they're not selling their visitor passing hall kit for $100 >> they should have they should have to sign it with their name on the front of it so that it's clearly identified to their home when they get the they should have to sign it or something. I don't can't speak
they'll I mean Pete tell me if I'm wrong they'll have numbers that are assigned to the unit and and the resident who who gets that's >> well the thought is that first of all with the software that the software that the chief has available to them is that
the people who register the uh the residents will have to register with the police department and then we're going to have to and but these but the officer would have to run every single plate to make sure it's it's a bonafide resident. So, we're going to buy stickers to be placed on the back left window so we can
clearly identify so the officer could see that there is a proper sticker. >> That's for res >> for visitors. You know, first of all, I don't know how many uh was going to be decided here tonight, but if it is truly single family homes, you got to take into account if you I think the
discussion was four visitor passes, you're quadrupling for each household in addition to the bonafide resident. So, so to to to put four extra additional bonus if you my suggestion
I would have one. How many visitors are you really going to have? I mean, how long is the visitor going to be? >> Well, this is >> is this an overnight visitor? Is this going to be you're having a party? If you're having a party, you're not going to >> I mean, what are you going to do? >> Services for your children. >> Listen, Council President, you could
whatever it is you want, we'll do. But just I'm just giving you my opinion. But, you know, >> we we've made several suggestions already and and this is, >> you know, this is for you to decide on. So, >> what do you think? >> That's why I go back to to >> I think it will work.
>> Parties during the day during these hours >> and if it's a problem, we can amend it >> and and somebody can pull them back after they lend them. >> Chief, you want to talk about this? >> All right. And I just want to inject right here um while you're discussing this because then it is going to
snowball to other streets. You're aware of the Ken's Terrace situation and um the resident there has been in communication with me uh that she was dissatisfied that parking guest passes were not going to be issued. We just need to be consistent and I need to know
what that is. >> Are we going to go by street by street? because there was an issue with the guest passes and that that was definitely an issue that they were being sold um creating a problem. So, you are going to amplify this and it's only during that time. I'm sorry.
>> No, no, go ahead. I was going to say, what could we do to make sure they're not sold? Could you put the license plate number of the person? >> How would you vis No. Is there some way to denote? >> Well, if your visitor pass was specific to one car,
>> how would you not Is it Is it possible to register put h have the visitor passes numbered and attached to the to the resident or the registered owner of the the individual unit? >> Yeah. >> But then, Mr. Pass, how would you know
that that resident didn't sell it to a student and just that student has that pass in the car? was the issue that we ran into up on Glenn Avenue. >> Well, if if they sold it then and they'd be there all day get another one, right? >> I agree. It just it just it created an
issue that I have to, you know, deal with. Mr. Really, the only way to do this, and I think we've talked about this in the past, is you adopt a digital system with a license plate reader component, and you you would go either
online or through an app or whatever, and say, "Oh, I have a I have a visitor coming." And you'd input their license plate, and there would be a a duration that they would be allowed to park on the street. And then if that, you know, if it lasts two days or whatever, on day
three, if you know, one of our uh street cars, radio cars goes by and reads the plate and says, "All right, well, you're you're no longer a visitor or you're not allowed to park here," then that's that's really how you would prevent the whole >> day, maybe that will happen >> like black market for visitor passes is
is is like the the digital >> all I'm trying to say is we need to be consistent for each inundated request from individual streets. >> I give you the most simplest of terms that we could do is the police chief has said and many of us had done this in the past.
>> I have a visitor coming to my house. I'm calling the desk and say I need this yellow VW with license to play XYZ 123 is parking in front of my house >> and then the chief or his designate can authorize that car for the duration that's going to be.
>> That has always been the the policy of the township. >> That's the kiss method. Well, temporary parking permission for for somebody who has an overnight guest. We do it all the time. It's a parking permission. >> During the day, would that be >> during the day? There is
>> when you're talking about contractors and stuff, my officers have discretion. If there is a contracting truck in front of a a resident, >> sometimes they're not contractors though. They're just, you know, different service people. >> No, but I'm I'm talking about that specifically because that comes up a lot. If I have a contractor, I don't
want my contractor getting a summit. My officers have discretion. If there's a contractor van in front of a house, I can't answer for all of them. 99% of the time, the contractor van is not going to get a summon. He's there doing work. >> We have to use some common sense here,
too. So, if there is a resident that needs parking permission, they can call in at any time. As long as that's not abused, as long as that courtesy that the township has always extended is not abused, will grant them parking permission. And then the officers working that area will know that this
car license plate 123 ABC in front of one Main Street has permission to park temporarily. >> Yes, that works. >> I don't want to complicate it. I'm sorry. >> That's fine. >> It's the simplest.
>> Yeah, it is. >> Can we just continue with that practice? >> Yes, ma'am. It's in place. >> Okay. Can I'm I guess I'm asking my colleagues. Then that means we're just going to do four parking passes per household and then that's it. >> I think they should have one.
>> All I'm asking is to be consistent township wide. That's >> right. Right. Because then that makes enforcement selected and then I think that nothing you could Oh, sorry council. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. You know you have somebody come to your house, park your car in the street with your decal on and let the person
park in your driveway. >> Not everybody there has a driveway. >> Exactly. >> That's the whole problem. and you're not and sometimes you're not home and somebody somebody's coming to your I think we have to have some amount of guest passes at least one or two >> agree I think we can use the system that it's always been in place
>> with then if if somebody um sells it or transfers it to someone who >> we can't prove that >> well but the same car is there all day >> like the visitor pass it's able to go from car to car so you're not going to prove it's
>> okay so I have a question some of these >> two Some of these people may have caregivers that come to their home on a daily basis >> and they need a guest pass. >> It's a it's a unique situation. That's why I believe that I like that idea of
calling in, but I also think that there there should be >> there should be at least one or two >> for the for the residents in this in this in this condition. So wouldn't you like in the sense of like a handicap stall if you have a special condition
that they can apply to the police department for their consideration to get a tag that we can give them a pass or something like that that may be something you want to put in as a as an option but it's on a case by case basis. So if you do have a bonafide caregiver you know they have they have a doctor's note or whatever the case may or contract
>> you're still going to have you have a caregiver >> you have a caregiver in your >> and you have what two other people in your home that's still not your four passes >> right? Well, if it if it exceeds the amount, I'm saying if it exceeds the amount and then I'm I'm sure we could put an extenduating circumstance clause
in there to to accommodate those people who have that. >> I think that would be fair. >> Yes. >> I think that we would have to write that language in here because >> I'm wouldn't it just wouldn't it make more sense? This is not a very busy time,
right? Usually, you have one caregiver if if that's the issue. Give one pass for a te a caregiver and then the rest call in. >> Yeah. One of them at least something >> one visitor pass is what you're suggesting. >> Yes. >> Okay. One visitor pass >> plus a call in on the
>> it's there. >> Plus a call in opport. >> Yeah. But that doesn't have to be in the ordinance. >> That has to be in the ordinance. >> No, it doesn't fall in and >> that's the standard in West Orange right
now. My my friends, my kids friends have spent the night. All I do is call the desk 3254000. I have a car parked in front of my house. What kind of car is it? They'll ask me what kind of car. They'll ask me what the license plate is. I've done that two nights in a row, three nights. >> I think it has to be in the ordinance
because on Kent's there's been a lot of ambiguity even by the police department about what the ordinance actually says. >> I don't think it is. I heard it from >> the ordinance states what the ordinance states. The ordinance should have all of this in it and it should be clearly
spelled out. >> Okay. And again, this is all possible. >> Do you want to treat the visitor pass and the chronic everyday caregiver >> permit as as a separate item? And do you want it all in the ordinance?
>> Oh, it all has to be in there. I don't think that the chronic caregiver issue should be in the ordinance because we don't even know for certain that there is a chronic caregiver problem. >> We're just going on I I mean I >> No, I mean chronic care we don't know
that somebody is there with that need and until we know why are we trying to pro again that's a casebyase basis and we can make accommodations. >> You don't know what you don't know. So you're you can't provide for everything. We can't. So, should we just focus on
the basics, which is one or two? Let's try with one or two and see if it gets abused. >> Can we agree with four and one? Four P four permanent passes >> from 8 a.m. to 400 p.m. and one G guest pass per household. And there should be
two. Well, on I asked Madame Clerk to look up what's on Oakidge and I I remember reading something about >> a visitor past 2hour window for the again I don't know how we're going to monitor that. If you haven't been there for five hours to enforce that no one this is all this is all make believe
that we're doing >> I mean it seems to me to the extent that you need these visitor passes for whatever reason >> come on >> one at a time is probably it's for somebody coming over temporarily right >> exactly >> if you have a situation where you have
somebody you have somebody who's who's >> injured in an accident and they need somebody to come over do physical therapy every day for four weeks. Well, just pick up the phone and call it in. I don't think you can provide for that in the ordinance. I just don't An ordinance is something that that's for like
always, >> right? These little exceptions are very hard to codify. >> So, yes, I mean, if I may, I think four passes for the household up to not everybody's going to get four because not everybody has four cars, right? and
and one visitor >> that's going to cover you >> because to your point >> if you say that if you don't say the up to >> then somebody can come and get the four passes we don't have to worry about them having we don't even have to worry about them
selling the visitor pass they can sell their regular pass they have four >> not my first day on the job >> there has to be something that they can't be sold I mean that has shouldn't that be in there that they can't be transferred >> I think we can can we go to one I'm going to make >> tell to move on. >> Well, I think we've we've talked about
four per unit, 8 to 8:00 a.m. to to 4:00 p.m. >> up to four per unit, >> not Sunday. >> And >> yeah, Monday through Friday. >> And um one visitor pass per residence. >> Okay. Yeah, >> this only Monday through Friday. >> I'm going to put in Monday through Friday.
>> Miss Brunette said that would work fine with her streets. >> Okay, >> we got Monday through Friday. We got that September one. We got to get in there. >> All right. There's no reason. >> Are we Are we going in your order or we Where are we now?
>> Well, so well, we got through B. Uh, >> did we? No, I don't think >> we're going to give it a shot. We can be later. >> We didn't we didn't get through B because it says application shall become available September 10th. That >> hard. So, >> no. >> Um, >> yeah. Have you
>> the restrictions? Anybody have Well, so all right. filing an application residential parking decal on the website application shall become available. I don't I'm not sure you can necessarily put that date on it, but we'll give it a shot for September 10th. >> Yeah.
>> Along with the application res must submit proof of residency and valid vehicle registration. Everybody good with all that? >> Except except not September 10th. >> It should be it should be available before then. >> They need to have it before then. So it
really should be August. I don't know what day of the week that is, like the end of end of August because she needs to set that date. September September 1st is Tuesday. >> Yeah. But September 2nd is the first day of school for the students >> in in West Orange. August 31st is Monday
>> and news for you. Seat will get started earlier >> because you're you're if you if you adopt this on second reading on the 4th >> published on the 6th, you're not really valid until the 26th. So anything before that is not
>> feasible. So do the 26th. >> Okay. So the 26th of what? >> Of can administration. >> Staten hall begins on August 31st. >> So it has to be As I said to you earlier, first we have
to decide what what is going to be what is what is the council telling us to do. Then we're going to have to order these stickers. We're going to have to get the police department on board on how we're going to do the registration which is going to be online because my understanding and chief can correct me if I'm wrong. Um if there's going to be
valid validation of who the bonafide resident is, they're going to be able to upload their documents so they could prove that the the vehicle there is belongs to that household. And then we'll we'll send out then then they're going to have to come and pick up the sticker because they'll upload they get uploaded 24/7 and when the when the
officers are at at the police substation, they could just come down and pick up their stickers. And um at that point, I guess that that's when they're going to have to validate the um I don't know how we're going to validate the the visitor pass or whatever we're going to create. >> What do we do with the other streets if we're doing it now?
>> Well, let's not worry about that. We're just doing this right now. >> People are going to focus on fill it >> and see how it works. It's our pilot program >> because every street has a different need. >> Right. Exactly. >> So, >> so that would be >> But let's just stick to getting this. >> There are test cases. >> Yes.
>> The applications will be available on >> August 26th. >> No, it's 31st. >> Oh, 31st. February. >> Yeah, that's a Monday. So, that's what I forgot. Also, excuse me, I forgot also we have signage that we have to put in place. So, so for the ordinance. So,
we're going to have to get signage. I don't know what signage we're going to need and how we're going to do. So, if it if it's stock signs that we're stealing from the Redwood section or for other towns that can't then we're going to, you know, we're going to have to bring them down the down the hill and where we're going to have to order them.
And I and I think the turnarounds are usually two to three weeks for a sign. >> Okay. As long as the policy goes to Satan Hall and to the head. >> The policy doesn't go to We don't Satan Hall has nothing to do with this. It's it's an ordinance. students come if it
>> quite frankly Satan Hall we to spoke to them they really have no say in whatever we do we're the town and and if their students park there they get a ticket that's it and they can't read they can't read a sign then they're subject to ticket you know if they park there illegally they're subject to towing you know it's just it's just the way it is
>> um and so but we're going to have to you know we're going to have to put the signage up and if we don't have the signage up in time you know we're going to have to see this is why this has to get passed because that's right >> we can't we're not going to order stuff if it this doesn't go through. >> No, we're going to pass it. >> Well, yeah, but but it's not done yet.
So, I I can't order this stuff till after. >> It's not even 11:00 yet. >> Well, don't worry. We're getting out of here before 11:07. >> Madam Clerk, it's something December. >> It says here along with the application, residents must submit proof of residency
and a valid vehicle registration. >> So, but the proof of residency, you should be more specific as to what that is. Jersey driver's license. >> That's what I think. Exactly right. What do you think? Instead of >> Yeah. >> proof of residency.
>> The >> the residency could be it something else. But I think the license is >> Well, if you don't have a license valid partid exactly. They're going to ask what what can I >> What are they valid? What do they have
to provide when they apply for the uh the parking per uh passes for uh obviously other than disabled information. >> So I'm I'm assuming we're going to use PD links for this the new program that we purchased. I I hoped I hope to use
that. >> Um so they need a valid uh registration insurance and garbage >> license. Yeah. registration to >> you need proof of the vehicle registration and it is insured so it can park legally on the streets. Okay, that's the beginning. >> Get that in the ordinance. Yes.
>> Let me ask the question please before you say yes put it in the ordinance. >> My question is first of all here we go again talking about being consistent. If that's not the language that's already in the other ordinances that do have parking um permits, then we're still
being somewhat more restrictive in this updated ordinance. Are we going to go back? >> We're going to have to go back. >> Can I finish, please? >> Are we going to go back and update the other ordinances so that we're consistent across the board? >> What is the plan? >> If we have the new system, we're going to have to
>> So, council woman, they they So, the plan is going to be the ordinance. the the software is has nothing to do with the ordinance. It's a it's a an administrative function. So, um the police have told me that once these these next round of passes expire, then
then the other streets are going to have to register. That's why we did this program. We're not forcing everybody to do it. It'll be a per expiration of passes. So, then we could do it that way. So, we're going to we're going to implement it. >> This is a yearly a yearly. >> This is being a yearly. Yeah. And then and then we will be able to control
that. we know that what passes have been issued and if something's expired so that this way we can have a better way of understanding who's >> get a new car expired. Do you then mean because a lot of times in other parking places you get a sticker every year
>> with a date on it that says whatever >> I the chief could speak to that more but yeah I believe so are the stickers that we dispense going to have a date on there or a year? Yes, they should. Absolutely. There should be an expiration date and it should be renewed.
>> So, is that expiration date going to be an annual renewal? >> We we anticipate a calendar year 11 to 1231. >> Okay. >> And we could and we could whatever the chief, you know, says we could we could um Well, no, we won't program.
No, we could change the colors so that we know that let's just say for argument sake we use the West Orange colors of maroon and white this year, the old West Orange High from Satan Hall. Um or we could do black and gold next year for mountain because it's it lasts a lot longer. So, you know, go ramps.
>> So, we could do something like that, you know. I mean, we could we could do something where we can change the color so it's quickly identifiable for the office. >> I just wanted to make sure that again we're being consistent in the application so that that's not an issue. This is this is the first this project
whatever ordinance is cast was the first one that was going to utilize the system and then we this is going to help them move forward with the identification and assist our all. >> So then I guess taking that even to the next level if we're going to do this townwide then that means everybody who
has a plaquador or some type of something that may hang or sit we're going to update them as well. as they expire and that's going to be that's going to be a job of the traffic bureau or whoever the chief designates to do that. >> Okay. >> Yes. casting.
>> So my concern is and I have my concern because I have people that don't want to come here or I've had I spoke with people that signed petition that didn't really want to sign them but they felt uncomfortable because people came knocking at the door
and just wanted people to go away so they signed it. Um and you're going to get those people you know. Do we have a good read on that everybody wants this on that street number? Will you say yes, but yet there was a 37%
uh uh response in writing, which I'm fine with moving forward this starting the process today. But now again, moving water. Now we have we know Riggs doesn't want it, but you know, oh well, this going to force Rigs to come back and ask
for it. I think that's a terrible answer. Um, I don't know why we're not doing the whole area like this because this is just going to push this out to them and we're eventually going to be painfully doing this uh as each street
uh realizes that now they're going to get inundated by St. Paul kids so or whoever. So I I don't I just throwing it out there. So tonight I'm willing to move forward first reading with all the amendments but you know again I know how this
council is there could be a a 30 people coming next meeting with a different opinion. Will this pass? >> Well I would suggest like what Mr. Carbalo probably knows like when they did Lington 50% of the street should want it and should have a petition. you know, we'll have to just pull them.
>> But a petition that the township does, not that everybody should send something out, >> goes knocking on with a bunch of people. >> I agree. The township >> and and people feel uncomfortable. That part of it is a problem for me. >> That is a problem >> because people signed petition that
didn't want to sign >> but felt uncomfortable, didn't want to say anything. So again, that's we got to stop operating. >> We might have to ask that one person talk at a time. Sure. >> You all were talking over each other. >> Sure.
>> Can I just one person please? >> Yeah. No, no, I'm done. I just wanted to make that point that you know that >> and I think that is the point that all of us have gone out that all of us have different experiences. woman.
>> Um that all of us are very clear that this is not a one-sizefits all, which is why again we're looking to do where we've had the most responsiveness, which is PEOT. However, I think we're all in agreement to your point, we're moving
water >> and we're just going to move the traffic to the streets that don't have permits starting in September. And so I think it is >> fine for us to understand and acknowledge that come September Mhm. >> Four other streets are going to be lined
up in council chambers >> arguing and complaining and asking and demanding and that's where we're going to be. And I think that's a fair assessment. >> Yeah, I think that's going to happen, too. And the administration's h going to have to do a a some kind of a mailing,
you know, again to each street where we want and make sure that 50, you know, the majority of the people want >> give them money in their budget. traffic service. How what a dynamic traffic do. >> We've already paid dynamic. >> All right. So, we could we could
>> pay them again. You all complain about that. >> We could do it. They're going to come. It doesn't take much to go up and down the streets. >> All right. Are we done with this ordinance? >> We got September 1st. >> No, we got >> No, we have to finish this now. >> Yeah. No, we're finishing now.
So, moving on to section C restrictions. That looks pretty benign. Um, anybody have any concerns? >> No. >> No. >> Pretty standard across the board. >> So, my question becomes on number two,
parking uh zone 12 are available on a first come, first serve basis for residential parking decal holders. What does that actually mean? Because we just said that you're going to get four per household. That has to be screed.
That was from That was from That was when we were talking about the long ways. >> Take that out. >> Scratch it. >> Scratch it right out. >> All right. And >> parking spaces. >> Parking. >> Oh, the parking spaces. Yeah. No, the parking. No, is this the Which? I'm
sorry. >> Spaces. >> Oh, space. I'm sorry. Space. >> There's no reserve space. >> Yeah, there's no reserve spaces. It's a first come. If that if that spot here is open in front of your house and I get it and you're not there that's what it is. >> Okay. >> That's what that is. That's not a strike. I'm sorry. That's not a I thought it was a first come first serve
on the on >> Yeah. You don't get Yeah. >> You're not guaranteed space. >> Yeah. No guarantee you're going to get >> No guarantee. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Because if you like we were just talking about before, you're giving out four of one. That's five. That's That's five parkings. Uh
>> and how many spaces are on POT? We have 63 houses. By how many spaces? >> Can we Are we on D? >> Are we on D yet? >> D expiration. Are we on D? >> Uh, well,
>> no. As far as I know, because right D. >> Do we want to >> Anybody have anything else they want to >> Well, I was just wondering because No, but this is a yearly permit. Do you want to mention that? >> Can we can we get to number three that
we're going two, three? Like we start skipping out of order. Councilwoman, we're we're going to be in trouble. >> The annual renewal Yeah. does need to be in there. >> Are you good with three, four, and five before we go to D? Everything above D is everybody good with? >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, that's basically saying that that this doesn't preempt other existing parking prohibitions. So you're in a loading zone, a fire zone, driveway, alternate site, etc. That that all preempts this. This is just gives
you the opportunity to park legally where nobody else can during the affected time, Monday to Friday, 8 to >> So if you're parked on the light strike lane lanes that are at the corner, then
you're still going to get a parking ticket, >> right? You still got to be 15 >> no matter what. You still have to be 50 feet from a stop sign. You still have to be 25 ft from a hydrant. All that applies. >> True. Correct. >> Absolutely fair. >> Going back to my house.
>> How many? >> 21. >> 21 parking spaces >> and 63 homes. >> Yep. >> Times four >> plus one. Some people have driveways. >> It'll force people to park in their
driveways. So, >> no, it won't. >> How is it going to force people to park in their driveways? >> If I have a parking permit that says I can park in front of my house. Look, some people park in front of their house and they have no cars in their driveway just because they don't want anybody
else to park in front of their house. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> not to complicate them, but I wanted to tell you last after the last meeting, I actually rode to the valley after our last meeting and there was actually three open spaces on POD. >> That's at night. >> 12:30 at night. Yeah. So, everybody's worried about parking overnight. There
was three open spots. I mean, and I confirmed with the chief, we looked I went through with all the other streets um um Osborne, four only four cars were parked on the street. So, to your point, well, these extra people are going to be parking on Osborne and then the next one in there. Yep.
>> Yeah. We're talking about 8 to four right now. >> We issued we issued about five summons that night and I actually witnessed the the uh the vehicles and the chief told me the next day. Yeah. Our officers out there is he thought it was a very low number that night and I actually witnessed the five I witnessed five cars parked illegally and that and whoever
the officer was, they did a good job that night. They didn't get in trouble with the chief. >> Absolutely. Celino. >> Yeah. You know, you you I have times where, you know, for whatever reason, you got a delivery coming in the driveway or, you know, my husband gets lumber delivered or something
>> Amazon >> and and you know, he's we got to park on the street because you got something coming in the driveway. So, you're going to have that too where people aren't going their driveways are going to be jammed up or they're doing construction on their house. You got somebody doing
renovations on their house and they got a dumpster in their driveway when you park. That's when you do the >> You can't force somebody to park in their driveway. >> You can't force people to park in their driveways. Is that when they do the >> give you the numbers? I don't know if everybody's aware, but director Carbal
just told me there's 41 housing units. So that means up to 164 residential passes and visitor passes with 21 spots available. >> Yeah, but they're not all going to be there at the same time. >> 21. >> 21. >> 21 spots available on street with up.
No, that didn't happen during >> being given out. So, I'm not stepping into a bigger. >> Let's see what happens. >> We got We got to try it. >> Yep. >> So, do >> So, you say we got to try it, but then you don't want it to be a pilot. Um,
>> that's crazy. >> And you're a poet and you don't even know it. >> Wait a minute. >> Once we can get out of here at 11. Did we get the September? >> Where does it say till Friday? I can't find the Friday where it said >> doesn't I wrote that by hand. It doesn't
say Monday. >> I but I did saw a version of this. Well, I guess there's a few versions of this over the internet. >> Do we have the September 1st date in and the January 31st? That's in the whereas the six whereas on the first page he
wrote it in I think he >> has to say uh September 1st and M president I'm gonna try and get it through but >> Oh, okay. I think you're done. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No problem. All right. So, um All right. So, D's out. Uh uh the next bar
violation, uh I've got written in on any portion of Philip plays between the hours of 8 a.m. 4 p.m. I I added Monday to Friday. >> Okay, that's Anybody have any other concerns about violations? >> He's putting it here. Violation.
>> Um yes. Typ typically we don't set the fine in the ordinance. We put it in a resolution. Well, or fines are always in an ordinance, but generally they're in a blanket ordinance. All parking >> Yes. >> violations are X,
>> right? >> So, as you like. Do you want this to be 50? You want this to be the same as everything else? >> What is everything else? >> I asked the chief. >> Parking in a residential zone. What you know what the fine is on that? >> Should be consistent.
>> But it should be consistent and it shouldn't be in the ordinance. We should do set that by resolution so that whatever it is, >> it should be consistent with every education. >> It should be consistent, >> right? >> I don't know what it's up to now. >> So, can we take this out of the >> Because I mean, I've never heard of fines that you can set by resolution
because they expire at the end of the year >> and they're supposed to be reinstituted every year. >> What? How about we make this consistent with >> uh consistent with township ordinance violations? >> Perfect. >> I believe it's either 35 or 55. Please
don't quote me on that. It's in that area exactly the same consistent. >> Yeah, 50 is better. >> I don't know. We'll make you. >> Okay. So, you're going to love this. >> Violations. Don't throw any. >> You could call Julie and ask her. She
would be able to tell us. >> She'd have thousands of dollars worth. She could tell you in a minute. >> He would be able to tell us. >> Got Okay. Now, let's go. >> Yeah. So, so the if I'm if I'm correct
in stating, wasn't it on the other street? Again, we need I we need that ordinance. It stated that on school days only. >> No, let's just keep it to Monday. >> Well, here's the thing. What are you going to do on a holiday on like a Memorial Day or a
>> It's Monday through Friday. >> Monday through Friday. >> Monday. >> Monday through Friday. >> It is. Yes. >> Let's keep it consistent. >> Even on a when everybody's off. said, >> "Yeah, but the other >> we also have discretion if it's a holiday, >> right?
>> They may lift parking restrictions for the whole town. >> We can't think of everything tonight." Yeah. You know, >> we can always amend if we have problems. This is, you know, we're going to try it. >> If we have the whereas >> Yeah. the sixth whereas when we have a problem,
>> it has to start September 1st and it has to end on January 31st. Right. That's >> No, January 31. I mean uh December 31st, >> Labor Day. I would uh >> do you want to run the first Do you want to run this first permit till the end of
27 and so everybody's not back here in four months getting >> That's a great idea. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> One in a row. >> Yes. >> Good thinking. That's why we got you. Although although >> if you're worried about a pilot program then
>> we're not doing the pilot effective that then >> it's not going to be in three or four months and then you see how it goes. >> Oh well then that's a point because if this ends up being >> a disaster disaster we would want it to
sunset >> at the end of No that makes that guys that makes sense. I'm sorry. We're just going to do a new ordinance to >> No, we're not going to do a new ordinance. We would just extend the time. That's what Mr. Samero said. You sunset it.
>> No, no, no. Mr. Simero said that when I asked about how do you do a pilot? >> He says you just put an end date on it and you can always extend it, >> right? >> Yeah. I think >> so. I I think that makes more sense since it's not a pilot. We're just going
to make it end so that if we need to make adjustments, we can have that flexibility. >> I'm open on this. Councilwoman Ruth, >> that is a pilot. If it ends, that's a pilot. This should not end. I like the idea of just having instead of having to
order two different stickers in one year, just one sticker that need will need to be renewed at the end of 2027. >> 2027, right? >> Yes. and and I wrote I worded it to
expire December 31st, 2027. And then if you don't want to continue it, you can just you can either >> I don't know if we need to put that even in here because everybody you are creating something where the the um
uh the stickers need to be renewed every year. >> Yeah, we want that. >> So, right, >> you don't need to write that in here. Well, I'm I'm just saying that this round of stickers will expire the end of 20.7 and need to be renewed, right? >> And need to be renewed and will be and
and shall be renewed. >> Do your best. That's going to be this complete mess and you don't want to continue it. Just do a new ordinance. >> Yeah, that's what I would think. We do a new ordinance. >> Yeah. I mean, that'll be easy. 298326. >> Exactly. It's easy.
>> Very easy to do. >> We'll get to Thompson Street after this. Councilman Koviac, we haven't heard from you. You have anything you want to add? >> I'm showing mercy. >> I just want to leave you out there. >> All right. >> Oh, play around.
>> Are we certain on the warehouse? >> I I just want to make sure we're clear that we don't want this to end at the end of 26. >> I'm quite clear. >> Oh, that's good. That's good. No, >> the first set of stickers will be good. It's going to end >> from whenever they're issued till
December 31st, 2026. >> Yeah, I think they should end 2026. >> Do you think just four months >> and then everybody should I because if we're going to make everybody adhere to this program, >> it's going to end on Columbus Day when everybody's home and they can't.
>> Well, and I think an agreement from a uh from an operational standpoint, you do October, you're doing December January 1 to December 31, it's consistent. If we we make other neighborhoods do it, it's all the same because our stickers are going to have to say certain zones and everything else. And what if somebody
else gets in it? Probably from a consistency operational standpoint. >> Absolutely. >> I trust your judgment on that. >> I would I would defer to that. We do every year. >> What about What about costs? There's going to be a cost for a permit. That means that these people have to pay twice.
>> It's only cost us. We're paying for the stickers. >> They're free. >> We're not charging anybody. >> We're not charged. >> Okay. Do >> you have any issue with renewing these after four months of use? Is that no? >> I'm deferring to the council. Whatever the legislative branch >> more
>> whatever the legislative branch says, the executive branch will enforce. >> Administrative leadership. >> No, we'll do whatever. we we'll do whatever >> that way all the other people with parking permits in the habit of coming in getting renewed every year
>> so that we have a system in place and it's consistent across the board >> we have the means for doing so >> and if I may I just want to just go another minute I know it's late I just want to address that because a lot of times that comes up and especially in the public comment tonight pe the public
needs to understand this is the legislative branch you develop the ordinances you enact them you put them in place. The police department just enforces them. I think it was directed that uh a resident didn't want the police department telling the residents where they can park or how they can
park. That's not my job. Our job as the executive branch is to enforce what the legislative branch puts in place. I think the public needs to understand that about their police department. >> Thank you. >> Very good. We'll figure out how to communicate that.
>> Anything else on any of these warehouse climate everything. Anybody else? >> No, but I think the the bottom line is also one of the things that we have not discussed this evening and I think it's important because we are in the middle of a budget process and no one has asked
the question about what this is going to cost the township. So, I realize that this is something that we're trying to implement. Um, but we just made a suggestion that all permitted parking
be redone on January 1 and we have no idea what that >> price tag is going to be. And so I just think that we might need to get that information as well >> before the next meeting when we actually
go into second reading so that we have some real numbers to understand what the financial impact of these decisions actually is. we'll do is we'll see what the cost is to get at least this implemented. That may be a a priority special purchase to get it done quickly,
but then we'll look at the bulk purpose uh you know the amount of we'll have to talk with the police how many permits have been issued and then we had to anticipate that number of >> that data somewhere so we know >> assume they do but I you know I I would defer to the chief on that. >> Do you know if we have the data and how
many parking permits have been issued throughout the town? >> I can get that. Yes, because it is issued. It was originally through the records bureau. Now it's through the traffic bureau. I can get that information for you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yeah, I don't think that that the cost was ever a consideration when all of
these other streets got their their permits automatically. >> It's we're not talking about um the other streets and the people getting the permits now. We're talking about a specific decal that is going to be updated and renewed on an annual basis. And I am very concerned about what the
cost and the financial impact of that is going to be. We need to budget for it as well. So I don't know why you're saying that it was no consideration. It's obviously consideration for anything we expend funds to do and we should not be doing that blindly going into a a a
complete overhaul of the system that we have in place without understanding the financial impact. >> Exactly. It may not even be necessary to do it manually. I think right now it's just so we can update into your computerized system. You want a mechanism of getting everyone in there.
>> Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to say this. I'll say at every meeting I have to say it 10 times in meeting. The reason >> that this has delayed and been complicated. Look at what it took tonight to get everybody somewhat on the same page. These aren't easy streets.
And it's not because you don't want to accommodate residents. The other streets are a lot easier to deal with. They're they're they're a lot easier. You know, the these streets are more compact. There's a lot more going on, not as many
spots. It's it's it's tough. It's tough. And >> but we just we just did dynamic traffic's job on this one particular street >> and it may have taken us about 45 minutes to get here and a couple of meetings, but at the end of the day, we didn't spend $20,000.
>> That's right. It's only 105. >> Yeah, but but in fairness women th this is about >> No, this has been about someone coming constantly for the past 10 years. >> Yeah. No, I just getting to a a real concrete solution.
>> Government moves slow. We all know that. But it it does not move this slow. >> We're going to just stick up the page. >> May I just read I'm going to read everything that was amended so that we're all on the same page of the wagon. So, um, if you're following along at home, sixth, whereas,
uh, whereas the governing body of the township of West Orange, this is as amended, desires to implement a residential permit parking program. the program effective from September 1, 2026, that's going to be August 31st,
August 31, 2026, uh to expire on December 31st, 2026 and and to renew annually thereafter to temporarily permit parking on Peelout Place only to residents of that street who are approved by application. and
obtain a permit parking decal to assess the feasibility visibility viability of permanent parking on Pot Place. >> That should come out. >> Yeah. >> What >> the to assess the feasibility and viability of permanent we're not doing the pilot.
>> Okay. So, it's going to be parking decal. Period. >> Period. Yes. >> And paragraph. Okay. Thank you. >> All right. Now, uh, recital and definitions are going to remain as they are. >> No, no, no, no. You got to go down to
whereas the West Orange Police Department has been directed to detail the outcomes of the pilot program. That paragraph has >> But we do need the detail, just not the not the pilot. We need the program details and out. >> Yes.
>> Everywhere it appears. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> And the one the one Well, that's that's going to be your accomplishment here, Mr. Pastors, to make sure you get pilot, not Pot of every >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Seventh warehouse. Got to take pilot. Also say omit pilot effort. >> Yes. >> This I'm not doing this. >> Pilot as in pilot program, not the street name. >> Yeah. >> Eliminate pilot anywhere. >> Oh my god. Could it be any?
>> Let me ask another question on that last whereas it's saying that the police department is going to give us the detail to review the governing body for review and consideration within 60 days of initiating the program. >> Yeah, that's we should strike.
>> I mean, do we want it in 60 days? Do we want it in 30 days? I mean, how about >> not doing a pilot? What's the point? I think we should take out the whole take out the whole >> question. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I just want to go back to the one,
two, three, four, five, six. Whereas it really should just say that it implement implement this on August 31st, 2026 to only residents approved on the street. And then and then in the permit
parking where it says um that participation in the residential, it should take out the it says residential permit parking. take out the word pilot program requires the filing of an application for residential
parking decal that shall be that shall be renewed every year on by January 1st. >> Okay, I like that. Anybody have any questions or objections to that? >> No, sounds good. >> No, >> so that's a third definition residential
permit parking program. >> You just read that one more time. >> That's on the second page. That's the third definition. >> No, that was in B. That was in part. >> Yeah. Not on the first page. On the second page. Oh, >> okay. We renewed A. >> Um,
>> should be renewed annually. Um, I think you wanted to say by January 1st of each year. >> That's one. >> Send those to us tomorrow. That's okay.
Okay, good. And so then >> and then the >> so we're taking that sixth whereas and it's on the end >> we're going to eliminate the expiration date. >> Right. >> So it's going to read Oh, let me read it off. >> Sure. >> Whereas the governing body of the town
of Orange desires to implement a residential permit parking program. The program effective eight August 31, 2026 to temporarily permit parking. >> No, not temporarily, right? Yeah, that's got to come out. >> Permit parking on Pilllet Place only to
residents of that street who are approved and by application obtain a permit parking decal. >> Period. >> Period. >> Then everything else is fine except we're going to eliminate the word pilot everywhere. >> No, you're the last whereas.
>> Yes. On that page, we're writing that entire paragraph. >> The entire paragraph. That doesn't apply. >> So you'll just ask the chief for update. They'll give it to us >> and they the uh the up above that. Yeah.
The pilot programs. Cross that out. >> Yeah. Got pilot reviewed everywhere on the scratch all these places. All right. So then >> going back to the operative section B again. I'll read it into the record. Residential parking decal shall be
limited to residents of Pilot Place. Uh up to four vehicles uh up to four vehicles. >> It says four visitor passes per res. >> No, that's that's out. No, it's down to one part. Visitor pass. Hold on. Let me make sure I've got the report again. Up
to four vehicles. I wrote individually registered to each residential unit located on Pilot Place and up to one visitor pass registered to each residential unit. Participation in the residential permit parking program
requires the filing of an application for a residential parking decal on the website. applicator shall become available when >> shall be renewed >> shall shall be renewed annually. >> Well, I'm still on when when is the
application going to be available? Let's say August 26th because >> that's the first day that it will be >> realistic. Along the application, residents must submit proof of valid driver's license registration and proof of insurance
>> uh permits to be renewed annually by January one of each year. >> Right. I think that's fine except I don't think you need to say up to one visitor pass. I think you could just say just one. Yeah. >> Get rid of the up to. >> Well, they don't have to apply for any if they don't want to.
I think up two should be fine because if they don't want a visitor pass, that's the same thing as saying up to four passes. You don't have to have one. >> Huh? >> Great minds think alike. >> Yes, we do. >> Okay. Um and then uh C 1 through five
remain. D is out. And then uh 7 43 47.3 violations. No person shall park on any porch or pilllet place between the hours 8:00 am 4 pm Monday through Friday except by permit. Any person who
violates any provision of section 7-47 shall upon conviction thereof be punished by a fine consistent with such similar violations. Uh and each day in which such violation continue shall constitute a separate violation or
offense. Actually, it's going to be by a fine consistent with similar violations per township code >> parking by. >> Yeah. Is that too >> too loose? >> No, not at all. >> That's consistent with whatever they do.
>> That's defined somewhere, right? >> Whatever. No parking in a residential zone already. The courts will know what to do with that. >> Okay. We we could >> we don't have like the way it sounds. >> Anybody want to move that? >> Yeah. I think that's fine.
>> Yes. >> Good. >> I move as amended move as >> amended. Second kill. >> I'm sorry. Who? >> She's Michelle and I second as amended.
>> Amended. Okay. >> Um Councilwoman, >> I I want to say one other thing before we close. I did mention this to council president um when we spoke about this um and that is I think everyone has identified that this is an urgent
situation which is why we have gone through this process here this evening um but I want to be very clear and very transparent that based on procedure alone and the fact that we have not pushed through other items whether they were supported by more of us or none
more of us or not even enough of us to past. This is outside of our normal procedure. >> I don't expect for this to happen consistently or really ever again unless it is something this dire. And I just think we need to put on public record
the reason why we're going outside of our normal practice is to accommodate the residents who have been coming here for such a long time asking for this. But this is not common practice. This is not something we're going to continue to
do. Government has a process and when you violate or go outside of that process, you are setting a precedent to do something that you would not ordinarily do. So I just want to be very clear and very transparent that this is outside of the normal scope of
business. >> Okay, let's move forward >> to just and to that to in that spirit with Tom with the the other street Thompson Street. I think the administration needs not every Tomkins the administration needs to which I
fully believe Miss Corbala will look into deal with that as opposed to us getting involved because I feel like when we get involved every it's too messy too many hands in the soup. So anyway, >> yes, >> hopefully this document is a
>> template for future >> issues that might be said >> because nothing's ever the same. But if it's a similar issue, hopefully you can use this as a >> But I I want to say that because we are anticipating that the other streets are going to come to us. >> Absolutely. And what I'm saying being
very transparent is it may not take you 10 years other alphabet streets but we will be going through the regular procedure of getting the feedback allowing the administration to get that feedback however they decide that that's appropriate and then coming to us with a
regular ordinance it going through its regular reading of more than one council meeting us even being introduced unless it's introduced by the administration We have a process where we get it under pending matters. We agree to put it on
and then that's the normal process. So, it won't be an overnight fix. Even if you're on one of the other streets, it's still going to have to go through its methodical process. >> Okay. >> Most appreciated. >> It's only 111. >> We're not ready. We're not done yet. So,
okay. Uh, as amended, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Okay. The motion carries. >> I do not have the damn do this other
thing. We've been here some >> quick conversation. I got I been up since 5:30. >> Well, I'm I'm I'm comfortable if we want to um push the ordinance to prohibit high density data centers to the next meeting. I think that's fine. Um, we're
going to do the same thing with the popup parties if we're going to stick to the 11:00. Yeah, >> that's fine. I have no problem. I'd be more than happy to make the recommendation to table um pending matters until the next meeting. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor of that?
>> Any opposed? Okay, that motion carries. >> All right. I move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Good evening. >> Thank you. West Orange, >> would you be so kind, Mr.