Good evening, West Orange, and thank you for your patience. Welcome to the township council meeting for October 28th, 2025. We are just a few minutes behind schedule, but we're ready to begin. And at this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president.
>> Thank you, Mr. Fagen. Welcome everybody to the October 28th, 2025 council meeting. Madame Clerk, >> this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section five of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public
law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on January 7th, 2025, and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, here.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. Council President Koviaak, >> present. So, just want to warn everybody that I watched every pitch of that game last night, okay? So, I haven't gotten my usual amount of beauty soon. So, if I
mess up and call people with different names and whatever, you'll understand. But, it was well worth the time. Anyway, I'm going to turn this over to Councilwoman Castelino. >> Thank you. And Council President, will you assist me with handing out
boards? Thank you. Alrighty, welcome tonight, Mustangs. Here you are tonight for your West Orange PL 10U Mustangs boys baseball team. So, let's give everybody a round of applause. It's always such a great privilege to be
up here myself as well as council president. I've been a part of the program uh for many many years and it brings back great memories uh to see this team move forward and uh to represent West Orange in such a great way. Uh I want to um just say that the
PAL has been you know been in existence for well over 60 years and rightfully so. It teaches not only then a great uh sportsmanship and camaraderie. It also focuses on our student athletes and to
always work really really hard and have great work ethic. So as you grow in uh baseball, you also uh grow as a great uh student athlete because it's always important to be great citizen as well. And we always appreciate those are the
uh fine attributes that the PAL instill in all of you. So during this summer, this season, the tenure team showed incredible dedication, hard work, consistently improving their skills. Their determination paid off with an impressive comeback in the playoffs. All
right, guys. The Mustangs dominated Randolph 110 to secure their spot in the championship game. They then went on to capture the championship title with a thrilling 119 victory over Westfield. Well done.
On behalf of the mayor who cannot be with us this evening and my fellow colleagues at the township council, we are very proud to recognize and congratulate the 10U West Orange PIL baseball team on their excellent sportsmanship and wishes them continued
success in the future and you all get a certificate that says this. I am now I want to congratulate uh coaches Andrew Merkellinger uh Rob Cost and Carl Sissant on their accomplishment and give them a round of applause for the hard
work. >> And we always have to clap really hard for your families that bring you to all the games and cheer and support you. And we also have to give a big round of applause to our admin who keeps everything together at the PL and that
is Cheryl Merkellinger and she's going to come up and say a few words. >> Hi everyone. Um town council and mayor, thank you for this uh recognition this evening. Um Andrew unfortunately could not be here. um he was trying to figure
out how he could FaceTime and be here that way, but with his classes and the time difference in Arizona uh and he actually has baseball practice tonight, he couldn't be here. But he did said words um that he wanted me to share and read with you. So he said, "There's not a team I could be more proud to call
champions. I made sure to challenge these kids every day and always told them that every day they just need to get 1% better." And I can confidently say they did. Many teams after the regular season would have just packed up their bags and got ready for the last month of summer. But I told them a story of how my own team in my youth with PAL
was winless and went on to win the championship. And sure enough, these kids did just that. Despite the scores, they always held their own and were right there in it. Everything came together at the right time for this team in a full effort of all 11 players. This season could not have been accomplished
without each and every one of them. Every day they fought and persevered and showed the true pride of West Orange and never giving up. I want to thank the players for showing up and putting in the effort even when they may have not felt 100%. But still they did what I asked every time they stepped between
the foul lines. I want to especially thank the parents for getting their kids to fields and for their relentless effort and support even in hard times when the summer season was certainly full full of surprises between rain cancellations and crazy start times in random random towns that we probably
never heard of. But you were always there for your players and coaches and for that I thank you. I would additionally like to thank coach Rob and coach Carl for their help to the team as well. It's never a solo effort coaching and they more than once helped me keep my cool when it was necessary and for
all three of us to put our minds together to help this team however we saw fit. I want to thank the pal, the town council and the mayor and forever go west orange pal Mustangs. >> If coach Carl wants to come up to help out the you want to come up to help give
out the awards. >> All right. Thank you very much, coach, for coming up here and Sher uh Miss Kirkinger. And so now when I announce your name, you could come up to get your recognition. And we want you to continue on the podium to go around and we'll
take a nice picture of everybody when we're all done. So first up at bat, number one, Riley Howard, uh Ethan Sisson. Carter Williams, Nathan Buskin, Neil Tahada, Aiden Davis,
>> Daniel Manton, Noah sir, Jonah Cohen, Nathan Klein >> and Wy Davis. Congratulations. Mustangs. >> Okay. My colleague.
>> Yeah. >> Your coach. >> You guys can move over a little bit more. >> Just sort of stand. Stay out of the way. Okay, everybody look this way. Smile. And we're going to take a couple pictures and I'm sure your parents are going to want to take pictures, too.
>> All right. This young man, you got to look this way. >> Okay. Who hit the most home run? Raise your hand. All right. Council president. Okay. All right. Come on. Look this way. Okay.
your parents to take pictures. >> On three say cheese. One, two, three. Cheese. >> Everybody good? >> Thank you everybody. >> Thanks guys. >> Baseball is all about handling failure.
>> All about handling. >> Yes. Good job, guys. >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh my god. You should let them go. Don't make so this meat is so cute. They are adorable. >> You should tell them. That's the smart guest.
>> I just said, >> they are so cute. Oh my gosh. >> Really adorable. >> Miss that age. Does that bring back memories? >> Yeah, it does. Does I play baseball all the time. I was unfortunately I was a better tennis player than I was a baseball player. Wound up having to play
tennis in college. >> Well, it's okay >> because I wasn't as good a baseball player. I love base. Still, >> son though, he did it. He had a good Yeah, >> he had a great >> a good run. He hit a monster monster home run over at the battlefield.
>> Oh, okay. Sorry. >> I'm sorry. >> That's okay. They probably couldn't hear us over everybody else. Uh, thank you everyone. And uh now we have a little bit more less exciting little bit less exciting presentation from fire chief uh
uh Veio uh about uh fire pits and a potential ordinance that uh has been drafted by the council who's going through the process. So chief also got his muscle in case anybody gets out of out of line. They they call in the uh
safety official, but uh >> fire official, Captain Mulo. >> Sorry. >> Thanks for having us out. Appreciate that. Um and um so, uh I guess a few weeks ago, uh an
ordinance was drafted for um some regulations on fire pits. So, we just wanted to come out and share some of our um information. We've researched information we researched locally some things about fire pits that you may or
may not know um and our feelings on on regulating them within the township. So um let's get going. >> So first of all, anytime we talk about fire pits, we're going to be talking about chimas or outdoor fireplaces. Um
they are legal in New Jersey. uh but they're they required they're required to be elevated non-combustible combustible containers and must follow NJDP regulations. So uh I want to make a distinction right off the bat that this is not what people refer to as an open
burn because there's there often people say well you know open burns are illegal. These are in containers. That's what we're talking about. So there is a difference between a what you might see as an open burn or a bonfire or a campfire that's built on the ground. That's not what we're talking about
today. Um, we're talking about um fires in containers. Um, so there are restrictions uh to open burning leaves and other materials. Um, recreational fires using approved fire pits must be at least 15 ft from structures, although exceptions may
apply. Local ordinances may be drafted, as we're talking about right now, for specific fire pit regulations, fuel requirements, and any active fire restrictions. also um um to memorialize other things like uh what to do when your neighbor complains about your fire
pit. Um so so I mean we we can read through all these but there are um in the new Do you want to cover this? We're gonna we're gonna share this, but I >> there are there are codes um within the New Jersey Uniform Fire Code as well as
um uh the uh Department of Environmental Protection. So, we just put a few up here so we can go ahead and open that. >> Good evening, everybody. Again, just for the record, my name is Joe Matul. I'm the fire captain and also serve as the pleasure as the fire official for the
township. So basically what here what we have here is our general precautions against fire. Here are codes that that define recreational fires and outdoor fire burning materials other than rubbish where the fuel is being burned and not contained to an incinerator, outdoor fireplace, barbecue grill,
barbecue pit is a total fuel area of 3 feet. Um and also in a diameter 2 ft or less higher for pleasure, religious, ceremonial, cooking warmth or similar purposes. And then 308.3.1 open flame cooking devices and outdoor
fireplaces charcoal burners. Other open flame cooking devices and outdoor fireplaces shall not be operated or stored on combustible balconies or decks within 5 ft of combustible construction. The biggest thing here are exceptions are detached one and two family dwellings which the local fire
prevention bureau we have no authority and also that is covered with the exception where buildings and balconies and decks are protected by automatic sprinklers. some of the uh the places in town they uh we have no jurisdiction to because it's one or two family dwellings, but they're also if their HOA
requires them not to have any of that. I know Eagle Ridge is one of the one of the um complexes that they're not allowed to have uh regardless of um any automatic sprinklers that cover their deck. They don't they're their HOA. I just did a fire safety presentation recently with them and they're not
allowed to have anything on their decks. So, here's some more of the general precautions um against fire. These are some of the more of the fire codes that pertain to for what we're talking about here. 307.2 allowable burning. Burning open burning shall be allowed without
prior notification to the fire official for recreational fires, highway safety flares, smudge pots, and similar occupational needs. Prohibit open and burning. Open burning as offensive or objectable because of smoke emissions or when atmospheric conditions or local
circumstances make such fires hazardous shall be prohibited. We had this issue last year where we had about 42 days worth of a drought and I monitored closely with the state uh division of fire safety and they were sending emails periodically about dry conditions and then eventually they did a statewide ban
of all open burning and we put that out um with the PI with the public information officer that uh reverse 911 social media and we um even for religious reasons we banned all open burn uh for until the division of fire
safety allowed us to uh re res uh to uh do that again. So it was uh um there I don't believe there was any issue with that once the word got out and got to the public. I don't think there was any issue. So that was um we do keep a close uh contact with our division of fire
safety with that. uh some of our key regulations for wood burning fire pits uh for New Jersey like we stated earlier they're elevated containers fires must be contained in elevated non-combustible structures and not on the ground um so also the the
most of them have a UL rating on them where they can they all have everything with make sure they have the stand they're not resting on the ground or not just they make sure they're in that container not just on the grass where they can spread fuel restrictions Only dry, seasoned firewood and approved fire
fuels are permitted. Burning leaves, paper and treated wood is prohibited. Trash, leaves, um, usually you could tell when someone is burning leaves. It has that very distinct smell when people are burning leaves. And, um, you know, we always suggest for any neighbor who
sees that or smells that, you know, make sure that they call immediately. Um, distance from structures. Fire and approved containers must be at least 15 ft from any structure. uh prohibited burning as we stated earlier open burning outside of containers is a violation of New Jersey fire uniform fire code and leaf burning is specially
forbidden our local ordinance specific regulations such as location time and type of fire pit may be regulated by municipality which we're so which we're discussing that's why we're here and here are some just fire safety recommendations for wood burning fire
pits um check obviously check your local regulations on burn bands if there are any, which we always make sure that we have for our our throughout our social media and through reverse 911 and any other form of communication that we can have with the township.
Also, there's a website there for the department parks and services, fire forest fire services. You can write that down and you can check with that. Also, if you do have a fire pit, you can prepare the area by clearing the 10 foot radius around the fire pit. Make sure there's no dry leaves or grass, any
other flammable materials. Make sure the area is safe. Uh especially if there's going to be children in the area. Uh make sure the area is level. Uh make sure there's brick, concrete, gravel. Uh no overhead branches or power lines. You know, be cognizant of that. Um especially in the dry season, we don't
want to make sure that we're not underneath any uh dry branches, especially the power lines, which is which cause even more of an issue. Uh and have a plan to extinguish a fire. The fire code uh does state that you can have one of these that are one of these
um items up here. You can have a fire extinguisher, a bucket of water, sand, dirt, or garden hose or a water um a barrel of water for bonfires. We make sure we have which we don't do anymore, but there's usually a fire truck that is assigned an engine company that is
assigned to that just for that reason. And inspect the fire pit for any rust or thinned out areas that the fire could burn through. If it's an older fire pit, you could have some holes in there which could also land with the the embers could land on the grass and cause a fire spread.
Here's some more fire recommendations for wood burning fire pits. Also be notifi be um mindful of the wind direction. Um the smoke will travel. Never leave the fire pit unattended and there is a fire code for that for leaving your fire pit unattended. Um,
however, it is if there is complaints that is it is kind of subjective to whether or not someone left the fire pit for a minute or an hour. So, uh, but it is a code that you're not allowed to leave your fire pit unattended and you have to make sure that it is completely
extinguished before before leaving it unattended. Use the proper fuels, seasoned dry firewood, wear the appropriate clothing, avoid loose clothing, flammable clothing. Um, use your fire pit tools to avoid any burns
and use make sure that there is a screen on top of the wood burning fire pit to contain any sparks or embers. Here's some more uh after use suggestions. Douse the fire completely with water, sand, dirt to extinguish it.
Confirm the extinguishment prior to leaving the area and dispose of any ashes. This is very important. dispose of any ashes uh after they have cooled completely and place them in a metal container. They have the old metal trash cans. They still sell them. We recommend that. Um there's been issues um not here
but elsewhere where people have put them in combustible containers and they start fires. So make sure that those that those containers are metal when uh when disposing of ashes, but make sure that they are they're completely cooled before removing them from your fire pit.
Yes, Chief. >> So, we did a little um uh I don't want to say a deep dive, but a little dive into some of our uh statistics and unfortunately we we we can't pull out specifics because there is no fire pit
um call for service specifically u but I was able to um pull out some data which I've put here. This is in the last two years. Uh we had seven incidents uh that involved residential fire pits. Seven of them we were able to deter uh determine
um and three uh we can see came from neighbor complaint. The others were usually smoke in the area. Someone reporting smoke in the area. We go. It turned out to be someone's fire pit. Um but I I I bring this up because in two years we had three neighbor complaints.
Um, so it it's not a uh an epidemic in in our um estimation. Uh, and I think it's one of the reason why we asked to come here and talk to you about this because um I know that there have been a couple of people who have have come to the council and asked for u relief or
maybe that's not the right word, but um I did want to speak from our perspective. Um we also of the reports reviewed uh we have no record of a residential uh a resident refusing to extinguish a fire pit when we ask them
to do so. Uh because we go by the old uh health department ordinance that that states if it's a nuisance and someone deems it to be which go back going back to the code that is something if if someone uh sees it as a health issue for themselves or whatever. We've never had
anyone say I'm not putting this fire out. So, I want to be clear on that. And I'm not saying neighbors are great. And Mr. Rashki, we were talking before um sometimes neighbors and don't get along, but um but when we show up, and I'm sure
the police had the same experience, they put the fire pits out. So, um we can find no fire investigation data to suggest the fire pits have been the cause of any structure fire within the township in the last 10 years. Again, u Captain Matulo pointed out that putting
um uh the contents of your fire pit into a combustible container, yes, that could be a problem. Um but it really it doesn't really happen often. Most people are not they're aware of that. Um, so, uh, but we we so with regard to embers,
uh, we also do require that that a fire pit has a, um, a screen on top to to prevent the the embers from from getting out. Uh, I'm sure people don't always abide by that. Um, but certainly that's
what we expect. Uh, education versus regulation. So, we do occasionally during periods of drought uh and and notifications from the New Jersey Forest Fire Service uh and the Division of Fire Safety, we will put out and thanks be to Joe Fabin for
um coming up with different public service announcements or um some graphic that we can put out that that puts the restriction out. uh even if there isn't a restriction, but we know that there is uh a drought, we will put something out that just kind of u talks about uh
safety with fire pits. Um an annual registration with the yearly permit fee must will create an added bureaucracy for which there's currently no enforcement mechanism in place and limited administrative personnel support. The reason I bring this up is and Kath Matulo had mentioned it before
um in theory without you folks doing something we don't have authority to go to a one and two family home and tell them to do anything with their property as of the fire as per the fire code. So that would be something that you would have to have us do. Um so that doesn't
exist now. I've pointed out that there really isn't a problem. So, we're creating something to address something that statistically is not a problem. And to make every resident that has a fire pit register for a permit fee with a a
violation, if I remember what I saw, of $2,000, it in our estimation that's extreme. Um, West Orange Fire Department data confirms there's not a residential fire pit complaint issue. We really aren't getting the number of complaints. I know they call you guys because they
they but we're not we're not getting a lot. They're not they're not calling 911. We're not responding to those calls as as much as you might think we are. >> Um David confers there's also sufficient fire safety hazard within the township to warrant regulating the entire
community. Again, back to what I said, I there's real it's not happening. You know, we we everybody can say, well, I think this is do people complain once in a while? Yes, they do. But we've never had a problem where they wouldn't extinguish it because the smoke was maybe they were burning something that was um was not right. And we have had a
couple of calls. I mentioned the the seven calls that I was able to pull up. One was someone was burning lead. Someone was burning during the drought. Um but again, we we handle that. There's no there no violation that happens. They they mitigate the the situation right
there and and we're done with it. So, um, again, thank you for letting us come here. For all the reasons outlined in the previous slides, the fire chief and the fire official are of the professional opinion that an ordinance regulating the registration and use of fire pits is unnecessary in that West Orange. If the council is looking to
memorialize what is already written in the New Jersey Uniform Fire Code and incorporate a provision for what I refer to as neighbors recourse, something that a neighbor can do when their neighbor doesn't listen to them, which obviously we know could be a problem. um then uh
that might be something we would support. Um and it would be more of an ordinance that would uh as I said give neighbors recourse and list the types of uh fuel that you should be using. Um the things that we outlined uh earlier in
our slides. Um and then one other thing that I did want to talk about, everything we're talking about does not include uh tabletop. If you've seen those tabletop alcohol burning fireplaces, there's been the Consumer Product Safety Commission has recalled most of those. They are dangerous.
That's not what we're talking about here. But I just But they call them mini fire pits. So that's why I wanted to be clear on that. Um the other thing that I didn't put in a slide, but I did want to address is the use of of gas fireplaces. And I know there were in that ordinance there were restrictions on gas fireplaces. So, u Captain Matulo
mentioned about UL and uh these labs that that certify these products. The gas fireplaces don't produce um the things that can cause the fires. There's no embers coming out. Most of them are designed to be contained.
They're propane gas. Uh most people use them on their decks. I'm sure if you if you started walking the neighborhood, you'll see most people use those gas fireplaces on their decks. Knock on wood, it's not a problem. So again, I don't know why we would regulate something that we haven't seen
as a problem. So we'll be happy to answer any questions we can um to the extent that we can. So thank you. >> Thank you, Chief Veia. That's very informative. Very informative. Thank you. Um council members Gaselino.
>> So Chief, just just real quick just to share with my colleagues. So the complaints have come in. So somebody calls in. You're talking about what was called into the fire department or through the main desk. So So either the Okay. So it went to police dispatch.
>> Okay. That's I just wanted to check to make sure there wasn't two different call centers. It all goes through. They weren't calling you separately. >> Yes. Yeah. No, I know that. I just wanted to make sure. Okay. Good. >> And please stay up to the microphone. It helps uh helps. Please. Uh anybody else
have any questions? Yes. How would I know that? >> How did I know that? >> Okay. So, first of all, one of the things that you've pointed out to to us is that a lot of the protections that the residents are asking for already in the New Jersey state code. >> Correct.
>> Including um 3307.11 which you referenced, which says open burning that is offensive or objectionable because of smoke emissions. Now I think you were looking at it more in terms of atmospheric conditions which we all worried about when there is a drought obviously you
know you want warnings but it also the the first part of it is has to do with offensive or objectionable because of smoke emissions. That's one thing I wanted to talk to you about and um the other thing >> I agree with that. >> Yes I I'm sure I'm sure you agree with
all of this. Um, it also addresses something having to do with the extinguishment authority and how that how that should be done. Um, it also addresses the attendance at the um fire pit.
>> Now, the concern that we have as a council is that those three things when when residents call, we're being told are not being enforced. So, for instance, if if there is a residence that is calling about an un unattended
fireplace and I have calls on here that report to me that the they were called out for fire, the fire um fire officials knocked on the neighbor's door and um they said that everything was all fine
even though the even though the pit was left unattended. So, it just seems like if if this was being uh enforced by your fire officials that we wouldn't really have a need so much for that. >> So, I'd have to know more. You're you're you're I'd have to know more about that
particular incident that you're referring to because if it's the one that I'm thinking, which is one of the few that we get, I think there was more there was more to it than that. So I think you're if I remember correct if it's the same incident I think that um person spoke to the neighbor spoke to
the owner or if you're looking for and and the fire was extinguished. So if you're looking for then us to issue a violation notice to the person is that what you >> No. Um they called due to due to smoke. The smoke was billowing out. the fire
officials um appeared on the neighbor's deck and um the homeowners were inside the home. >> Captain Tulos responded. >> Okay. >> The homeowners were inside the home. Um and then the fire officials said that
everything was fine and they left. The pit was lit. It was left smoking. It was unattended for hours. Apparently, there was video that showed that that the pit was left unattended. So, you know, I'm just saying that that if what we have in the code and what is state code is at
the minimum enforced by our fire officials, >> that's great. That's great. Then we don't have to do some of the things that we've we have suggested. Um the other um concern I have is that um Chief Beckio mentioned that that you're not
really tracking the number of calls that come in. So you don't really know how many >> we every call is tracked >> but you're not specifically track you're tracking every call but you're not specifically tracking this is a fire pit >> service call for service type for
>> fire pit enforcement right it's not in efforts it's not it's not something that the US tracks >> it's not something that the USFA tracks so it's it's a smoke condition in the area so that's why that's what I when I was doing my research this isn't the only kind of thing that we have to uh
research a little. We have to use some finesse when we research. So I pulled up all smoke smoke condition calls and from that I was able to get down to where I was and see where the the in the narrative that the officer wrote. It talked about what happened. So that's
how I was able to get to where I was. It's still could my numbers be off by two or three? Of course they could be. Could I have missed four? I could have. But what I'm still saying in a two-year period, this is not something we do that often. Again, you're you're getting calls from specific people who have
specific problems. And the reason what I had said in the presentation, we're comfortable. I we've even said it would be nice if we had some type of a um uh an ordinance that when our officers go, they can say, well, look, as opposed because no one residents don't pay
attention to the fire code. It's it's and for us, we usually are enforcing the fire code with commercial property. So, if there was a a local ordinance that said, to your point, and there could be some type of an enforcement, >> I I personally think $2,000 is it it's
not happening that much. So, that seems extreme to me, but that's, you know, if that's what the council's appetite is, then that's what the council's appetite is. But, um, so what I was saying was I'm in favor of putting something on memorializing all this. Um
I just think you have to be careful um with with how you go about doing it. >> Okay. So um the ordinance that you were probably dealing with was written by the administration without the input of the council. The council worked on a
revision a revision but I don't think you saw that. >> I did see the revision. >> Okay. We were not we were not in favor of you know such high high >> even after even after the revision though there were I mean I'd like to have and Joe as well we'd like to have more input. I think it's it's what we
do. >> Absolutely. We were we were concerned why you weren't brought into the discussion before the ordinance was presented back to us. I know I was in in some emails, but >> we welcome your input basically. But the the the thing that we want to figure out
is how do we craft something whether it be an advisory or an ordinance that when >> is you know one of the issues that you may not be tracking is that people are calling about unattended fires and that might not be something that you can search out and then the officers going
out and seeing unattended fires and saying not a problem but it is left unattended. it. There is no safety um extinguisher, water, sand, nothing is near the pit and you know so so people
are leaving the the the officers are leaving the scene without a without a resolution. >> Yeah. Histo historically what I found is we we there there was resolution. Fire pits were extinguished in every one of the cases that I brought up. Someone called you and said they weren't. Again,
we also have to remember some neighbors don't always get along and they're saying this person did something when and then they have when when Captain Aulla went out, they said something about the neighbor. So to try to um police neighbor to neighbor disputes is
very challenging to do. But again, the data shows that it really doesn't happen that often. And I I know the people who get very upset, they email you guys, but that's it, >> right? But that's why a very clear advisory or regulation or or your
department following the state code and when you go out and you say, "Okay, here this person's called unattended. We that's against state code. You can't do that. It's it's out." >> Mhm. >> Put it out right now. That's that's really what we want. We just want to make sure that the state code is
enforced. >> Right. >> We're not so concerned about the registry and the fines. We're concerned about safety. >> And we agree with >> And you're on the same boat. Absolutely 100%. So >> yeah, I just again I I I I don't think I just wanted to point it out because it was presented to me that this is an
epidemic within the townships. It's not. I mean there are other things. This is not an epidemic. But you're absolutely right. There's also nothing currently other than that nuisance code and that the nuisance ordinance that we kind of use which quite frankly we're not even sure if legally that applies to us or we
have an enforcement >> um authority to do that because it's not even within our realm. So um we would we'd be happy to work to put something together. We think it's a good idea. I just think that what I read even with the um changes
I think went a little too far. That's my opinion. >> That's that's why I think that the council and the and the fire department should sit together to talk about some of these issues and perhaps with some residents. >> Would you be okay if we d if we crafted
something? Absolutely. And then >> and then presented it to the council and the administration if the administration's okay with that. >> So I just want to point this out to you if you haven't already seen it. This is um Medford's um >> Mr. Show this council. >> So, all right. So, this one brings up it
it it more refineses um the code that you pointed out which is 307.11 so that we can really define what what a nuisance is >> and that there can be a better better response
>> um from the fire officials when they come out and are dealing with residents who are affected by smoke. Agreed. Agreed. Gives us parameters as well. So, >> and do you have a copy of this? I do. >> Okay. So, I I think that's, you know, I'm done speaking. I think that's a
great idea. You come up with something very simple. Reinforce our state ordinance and let's just have something on the books so that you have a means to respond to residents >> when they're unhappy. I agree. just to interject with that the the the
call that that we that I investigated personally. Um I spoke with the neighbor who um when I got there, I explained I said, "You can't leave your fire pit unattended." And she was like, "Well, I have a special needs child. I go inside the house and check on him and come back
out." So, I stated earlier, it's kind of subjective. So, someone's 5 minutes could be an hour. And and if we get to a call that says, "Oh, this person's been leaving their firep on their tender for an hour and I and we we show up one of our engine companies or ladder companies," they're going to say, "Oh,
no. I've been here the whole time." So, it becomes where it could kind of go back and forth and then it could create that. But, I investigated that one personally and there was some issues, I guess, with both neighbors that are bickering, I guess. The the other thing that I I believe that you pointed out in
this code which we have no reference for anywhere in the town which is that the distance from a combustible structure. So that is also something that when you're redoing this if you could if you could please address that so that it's very clear.
>> Yeah. We always like to >> and as well as burning you know they it mentions in here things that shouldn't be burnt. Yep. >> Great. Councilwoman, >> thank you. And I think on this one, um, cuz we did all put input in and we were
actually council and I were supposed to meet with the attorney and the and the staff that day and last minute we were told that, you know, the staff was going to work on it together. And so I I get all that, but I think the communication of us having to get a pair of eyes on it
before the meeting would have been important so we wouldn't have all this back and forth. But at the end of the day, I think things will change. We'll have a new process soon and uh things will go smoother. But I I hear you. It's all about balance. I wasn't for the
registration fee. I thought it was a little bit uh too high. And I know the staff, you know, these these ordinances are only as good as we can enforce them. And I I know that one wasn't enforcable. So, but I appreciate your time and looking into all of this. And I think
we'll have a good outcome uh once you get another pair of eyes on it. >> Sounds like we're on the same page. So, >> yes, it's about collaboration. >> Yeah. All good. >> Yes. >> Great. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. >> Question. Can we get something back from you before the next town council
meetings that that you can distribute through our our uh clerk? >> Sure. >> To distribute to >> I think they need to go through legal too. So like >> however it needs to be done, but that we can look at it. >> We do just say we're going to go we're going to give to the administration how
they distribute it. That's we'll do our thing with that. >> Um but um but again, we'll we're going to work off this. We're going to work we'll look at that. Um, and we'll see what we come up with. >> Great. >> Collaboration about collaboration.
>> Good on that. The teachers. >> We got to see more of that here. >> Not to be confused with conflration, >> but you probably do use that. >> So what you did there? >> Yeah. >> So what you did? >> All right. Thank you very much. Uh, next on the agenda. Yes. If I may, just real
quick, uh, while we have our chief Veio and Cat Matulo, today is actually National First Responders Day. >> And I just want to recognize their their contribution, not only them, but we have we have >> we also have Sergeant Granados over here
who was recently promoted to sergeant. Look at those stripes shining away. >> I just want to take time to recognize our professionals. >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Mr. Uh, next on the agenda is a discussion of the 2026 council meeting dates. I
appreciate the uh clerk bringing this up to us so early in the uh early in the process. Uh I am proud to say that I checked with my boss and she said all of those dates are good. So are we done or do you guys have >> good?
I I do. So are we done? So, so last year we had a conflict as a council member on the January meeting. I just asked madame clerk if that would still be a conflict. I know we're trying to be respectful of all religious holidays and whatnot.
>> Exactly. A question. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I was wondering if we could keep it on the Tuesday as opposed to coming right off of um New Year's weekend and having a council meeting and not having time to ask
questions at, you know, because it's the holiday weekend. So, we could keep it on Tuesday the 6th without meeting on January as opposed to doing Monday night the 5th. >> Oh, yeah. That makes sense >> because I know how we all are with our
our questions over the weekend. >> We have a lot of questions. >> Yeah. >> Fine with me. >> Me, too. >> Does it work for everybody? >> Yeah. What did you suggest? The six or the seven? >> The six. I think the I think the holiday is really celebrated on the fourth
>> on that Sunday. I know in my church it is. It's Orthodox uh Christmas >> on that Sunday. >> Yeah, with >> we're going to go with the sixth. >> But I have a question. So when we're not going to get a packet on the first, are we?
>> No, you get it before. >> We'll get a packet when? Because the office will be closed. >> 29th. >> Uh it's a good question. I don't know. >> New Year's Eve. Is the office open on
Friday the 2nd? >> Yes. >> So then maybe could we do it the 7th and so that we can get the package on Friday? >> Well, that's the actual Christmas day for some people. I don't know if you want to do the eth.
>> Well, that for any of any of us up here, it's just Oh, >> yeah. I'm okay. Um, well, I would assume you have Monday and Tuesday for 29th and 30th because Wednesday's Christmas New Year's Eve the
what a half day here New Year's Eve. >> So we could possibly get it on Tuesday the 30th. >> Well, I'm I'm off that week. So I'm off >> from Christmas. >> Oh, forget they upload it online, too. >> Let's do the but
my deputy would be here. Why not on the then has to be done by the 7th by by statute, right? Right. So, let's do it on the seventh and hope that we can get it on the second. >> No, I would just do the six in case it
snows the seven. >> The only thing is that I'm going to be on Pebble, too. So, I think in fairness, if you're going to switch it, then let's switch it to the seven. That's in fairness to everybody. >> We can have it by Zoom if it's news. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Why do you think it might snow on
that day? I'm curious because it's the last day. All right. So, we're gonna do it on >> Oh, wait. >> We're coming. >> I think we're maybe on the seventh.
>> So, we can't do it on the seventh. >> Excuse me. >> No. Well, well, again, it's better than Monday the 5th if you do it the six. Monday the 5th, I mean, you're walking right into a meeting right after the holiday weekend. It's >> up to you. Fresh and fresh.
You guys have to be ready. We're You know, >> it'd probably be do it the second and then we can get everything ready before Christmas. >> What the meeting? >> Yeah. >> No, I'm not. You're not seeing me on January 2nd. On Friday.
>> Come on. Don't be silly me. >> Just Just an idea. Okay. How about if we just set schedule it for the 6th and then your office will figure out when we'll get the packets. >> Okay, >> that sounds good.
>> Great idea. Any other dates? >> Yes. I went over this with with a certain rabbi. >> You know one who may or may not be in my home. Um, and there are a couple of
um, holidays that are a little bit funny. Okay, so I just want to put this down there. On September 13th, it says Rashashana ends. Rashashana is actually that's the second day. That's like a
full day of Rashashana. It ends in the evening. So just put down Rashashana instead of Rashashana ends. Um >> over here this 13th >> on the 20th it should say Yamipur begins
in the PM not during the day P.M. >> It's Sunday. >> Yeah. Well, this that was just more of a reference for us so that we wouldn't schedule anything. Obviously, we're not going to schedule anything on the weekends, but that was more of a reference. >> No, we're not. But sometimes town events happen on these days and that's that
>> that has nothing to do with this. They don't even see this calendar. >> Okay. So, um on the 27th it says that Sukkot ends. Sukkot does not end. It's a week festival. So, just
>> okay. >> Just leave that. It goes on for a week. Um there is on the in October. Um there is
on Friday the 2nd of October and and Simka Torah is that day. So just putminy. It said simra begins on the 2nd. It's actually >> okay. Again this was just a reference so that we wouldn't schedule anything and
nobody else sees this but us but by office. >> But we might have a meeting on a Friday. So I just wanted you to have that. >> So all right can So >> during the day you mean? >> Yeah. So the day is after the extra
>> in case we >> So you're saying >> no you can act actually it's in the evening so that's okay. Um, >> excuse me. We know it won't be a budget meeting on October 2nd, >> right? >> Um, >> I'll be wrapped up early. >> Okay.
And Hanukkah is fine. But what I I did want to put in here was our council connection dates >> and then to lock them in. So typically just for the the public um we have started something called the council connection where you can informally come
and speak to any of us on the last Thursday of the month. And we welcome your attendance and just you know one-on-one we'll talk and find out what you're dealing with and just be able to move it move it quicker so that you don't have to come here. Not everybody
likes to make public comment. So can we just put down the the council connection date? >> Yeah. Let me just grab a calendar in my office. >> And actually, we don't even have to do that right now. If you can just add that in. >> Well, the reason I want to go over it now is because the zoning and the zoning
board, I want to make sure that the rooms. >> Okay. And there are some months. So right now we also we don't have council connections scheduled for for February and and December and I just wanted to know if my colleagues want to
do that. Um we cannot do it the last the last Thursday of the month. We can do it an earlier time if if that works for other people. >> What do you think? >> Sure. >> Like wherever we can't do the last Thursday, why don't we just do the
>> the week before? Okay. >> Yeah. Well, because you have your economic development meetings. >> I'm I'm not a host. That's Oh, yes. Council >> president then. Yeah. Economic development. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, obviously we cannot have for
this year, Karen. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. Um >> clerk, council clerk, >> madam. Madam clerk, um the last Thursday in November is Thanksgiving. >> Yes. So, I don't think anybody wants to talk for us on that day, but we can meet
with them on the 20th. >> It's already scheduled for that day. 20th. >> Oh, it was moved to the 20th for November. >> We did that. Yeah. >> Yeah. I went went back over the video. >> Wait, the 20th on a Friday? >> No, it's on a Thursday. It's at 5 year. Okay.
>> We're talking about this year right now. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then for December, >> there was no date. >> I would have December last week on vacation. We waste. >> So the only thing we could do is if we wanted to to have it on the 18th, the
week before Christmas. >> Such a busy time of year. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So >> Okay. So do you want to go over the connection dates? >> Yes. >> I I would um suggest Mr. that if we can um I know the mayor secretary is sending
out to all the board commissions to find out their dates because they may take precedent if they need the chamber or not. So if we can gather that information for you and then we can maybe make accordingly so we don't have to go back and forth because you got to remember now >> the planning board is meeting in here from occasion the rent leveling board's
now meeting in here so we want to just so we're not I want to try and accommodate everybody's schedule. So if you I know that u the mayor secretary is sending something out very soon. We can put that all together if that makes it more accommodating for you. >> It's fine. It is October so it's not
>> we don't have to do this today but we can we can also meet in in another conference small group. >> Okay. I just wanted to point it out. We're looking to get those states down. So >> Okay. Okay. That's good. >> So we done? >> Yep.
>> Okay. I am going to try to make an executive decision to skip liaison uh yes announcements just because it's uh after well >> I know my laptop is not >> it's after >> 7:34 so it is after 7:30 and uh move on
if that's okay with uh my colleague. >> Yes. >> Great. >> Let's move to the public meeting. Madame Clerk, >> this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public
Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger and the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025, and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. Council President Kobiaak >> pres. >> Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting. >> Thank you, madame clerk. Uh on our agenda is public comment.
But before we have public comment, I'd like to just uh uh talk about two things if I could, if I can find them on my screen. First one, uh the first thing I want to talk about is something that's on our
agenda. It was a very very very late addition to our agenda. It is uh resolution 242-25 and uh it essentially is the settlement of litigation that the mayor filed
against the council uh more than two years ago. And uh because all of the materials and it's I don't know seven or eight um different pieces of of uh different documents. I want to just go
over it because we didn't get this up until uh uh a short time before the meeting. So, you may not have had a chance to review this. I'm just going to go over a few things about it. But, uh once again, I
have let Mr. Fagan come up to the deis because he's been doing this for years and he knows when to do it and I have been ignoring him. So, I apologize to everybody and especially to you, Mr. Feen. So, please you take it and I'll I'll come back.
Bill in. >> Uh, thank you, Council President. No apology is necessary. We all have a job to do here. And I just want to say before I begin, uh, something chief said before, anytime the fire department has any sort of announcement, uh, to go out, any sort of emergency announcement
regarding fire pits, drought warnings, uh, fire warnings, uh, usually uh, as soon as I can get the graphic done, it's usually up on the website, ei, and uh, social media. So, uh, we work very closely with the fire department and getting any important messages out. Um
I want to begin with um the uh grace period uh extended for fourth quarter taxes. I I spoke about this last meeting. Uh the it's the date is still to be announced and this information will be on our website. Um the milling
and paving is going on Eagle Rock Avenue October 27th to 30th. Scheduled improvements. The details are uh on our website westtor.org. This is happening overnight. Uh so just be aware if you're in that area that there might be some uh travel restrictions or detours in place.
And uh you may have heard there's an election coming up. Early voting has already started. And uh this there's information on our website uh about important dates and links. And uh we also just put this up this afternoon that there is uh transportation for
seniors needing transportation to general election polls. The information is up west.org. Of course, this is for West Orange residents. Um, something I also spoke about briefly last meeting, but this information is on our website and it's very important that uh we don't
think about deers and bears uh in this environment today, but they're uh both their uh wildlife on the move. Uh they're getting ready for the winter. Uh, and there's important details up there about some uh tips uh from New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife and uh uh some good information for
motorists regarding uh animal movements. Uh tomorrow night uh is the uh at Liberty Middle School is the uh West Orange Community Band. Uh I believe this is a free concert starts at 7:30. Uh, as was mentioned earlier, the
council connection is Thursday, October 30th in this room, 6:00 to 7:00 p.m. No appointment is necessary. Uh, you're welcome to come in and uh, talk to uh, council members. Uh, this information uh, came to us Halloween Festival 30th October. Uh, but it was cancelled. I
don't have any information other than that it was cancelled. So, if you're planning on coming, please be advised that it has been cancelled. The mayor's open office hours are November 6, 6 8:00 p.m. Uh, of course, no appointment is necessary as well. Uh, November 11th
will be upon us shortly and that is Veterans Day, our annual town hall ceremony. It takes place uh here in Veterans Plaza uh right by the police station. Uh so please uh plan on attending uh join us uh at 11 o'clock in
the morning. Uh, by the way, uh, November 11th, 11 o'clock. Um, I'm sure everyone knows this by now and is probably tired of me saying this, but it it originates from the armmesus that ended World War I was on the 11th month, the 11th hour, the 11th day, and that's
why it's traditionally held on November 11th at 11:00 a.m. Uh, now that we've advanced more into fall, leaves are falling and the leaf collection procedure is up on the website. And um uh I've I've been seeing the county trucks on the road uh because
if if you live on a county road in West Orange, there's a different schedule, but both these schedules are up on the website. Uh also, we've been getting a lot of calls for uh street light outages and uh it's certainly very helpful, but residents should be reminded that uh you
can report that directly to PSENG and uh pro provide the poll number which they will need in order to correct the problem. Uh, also another reminder that West Orange Police Headquarters, the lobby at uh 60 Main Street is a safe exchange
zone. Uh, it's open 24/7 and uh there's video surveillance. So, if you're conducting any um Facebook Marketplace, any uh transactions between unknown individuals, uh having it in a safe exchange zone is a good place to uh to
accommodate that. Um this Friday, October 31st is Halloween. Um, please be advised that there's going to be kids on the road. Uh, please, you know, do your best to, uh, be aware, follow all traffic regulations, and, uh, the end of the night, we want everyone to go home
safely. Uh, the mobile manog screening is coming to West Orange. This is just to save the date, December 17th. Uh, details are have been posted to the website this afternoon. This will be on the east sign. And I also have a Spanish version
uh that will can be posted on the e sign that will direct everyone uh to the uh to save the date uh this weekend. That's hard to believe it's upon us. Fall back. Set your clocks back one hour Sunday, November 2nd at 2
a.m. I'm sure we could all use the extra hour of sleep. And um as we speak, uh Hurricane Melissa is bearing down on Jamaica in the Caribbean. It's a category 5 hurricane. Uh sustained winds of 180 mph. It's going to leave a
devastating effect. So uh in the upcoming days, weeks, and certainly months, uh Jamaica is going to need our assistance. And by our assistance, I mean our collective assistance. So, if you uh want to make any sort of donations for hurricane relief, I would
suggest you do it through redcross.org. Uh because all the money then uh is concentrated on going to the people who need it the most. Uh Mr. Plesi is not here tonight. He sent an email earlier. The only thing that I have to announce for him, uh there's probably other
announcements, but you can check them out on the website at um essex county uh neww jersey.org. But there is uh safe hallowing coming up at on Friday, October 31st at Turtleback Zoo. Uh and I
believe it says on there that the last uh emission is at 700 p.m. This information was posted on our social media today. Uh thank you council presidents for your indulgence. Uh I hope I've covered everything. I'm sure I left out a couple things, but as always, thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Feen. And again, I
apologize for going out of order. Uh, so as I was saying, there's a uh there's a resolution with several pieces to it. I don't know whether everybody's had a chance to review all of this, but I just wanted to let you know before public comment. Um, it's it's for us
it's a us meaning the council. It's potentially a monumental day. The council will consider a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the mayor against the previous council in April 2023. The council brought our town attorney Richard Trink and his law firm into the case. He has been town attorney since
roughly the turn of the century. And not to rehash the history, but I and many others in the township thought given uh his long record here that it was long past time for him to move on, which became the nexus of the lawsuit.
This legal dispute has been very costly to the township, adding heightened distrust and conflict that speaking for this council that took office in January has greatly slowed, but thankfully in several cases not prevented council's plans to make West Orange a better place
to live. The council made a good faith efforts to settle this even before our term began in January. If the council approves this tonight, we will have a new town attorney and a new assistant town attorney that council members believe
will bring together will together will bring a new era of trust, professionalism, and expertise to our municipal government. We believe you will agree. We hope this settlement sets our conflict aside and empowers the mayor, her administration, and council
to collaborate on your behalf to make significant progress serving you. The settlement solves issues with several professional services advisor contracts and it will help uh to continue our progress. It settles the issue of the business administrator who will serve
co-terminus with the mayor for the rest of her term. It has been extremely costing and costly in legal fees directly and indirectly related to the lawsuit and the time and focus of council members especially this council president. the in anticipation of
unhappiness with one aspect of the settlement, the mayor insisted as part of the settlement that the business administrator receive the maximum salary in our salary guide of just over $29,000 annually plus another 10.5%
uh bonus for a retirement account. We were able to negotiate out additional significant proposed compensation, but in the end, a council majority decided that the benefit to residents in other areas of the settlement outweighed this cost to give us the opportunity to end
the conflict and get back to serving residents better. I also hope that this is a lesson to many of us that our municipal charter is designed with separate powers for mayor and council that require us to discuss,
negotiate, and yes, compromise. We're basically here today where we were several months ago. I personally thank the lawyers from Gova Burns and Antelli Caner Rivera uh that served the council aly during this time. I thank the
administration directors and employees who kept their eye on the ball by continuing to serve residents despite the conflict. I thank former councilwoman Gabbor Michael who resigned early this year but not before providing invaluable advice and insight to getting
this done. I thank the mayor for her willingness to collaborate, there's that word again, on this settlement. I thank residents for their patience and support as much of this drama played out in courtmandated confidentiality. I thank my council colleagues for their
efforts, input, and keeping the faith that we could get this done even when I wasn't so sure. So, I apologize for the late addition uh on to the agenda tonight of all of these materials and of not giving you much time to review the
proposal. Uh the final pieces of a complex and lengthy negotiation came together quickly. That was a welcome change to the often two steps forward, one steps back cadence of nearly a year of discussions. Assuming this passes tonight, we can turn a page to address
the many challenges ahead of us. These include a plan to fix our broken budgeting process. Reduce our crushing debt problem that eats 12% of our budget and fix our affordable housing problem that includes a failure to file a statemandated plan to deal with our
quota and five builders remedy lawsuits filed by developers who want the courts to help them build big projects in town in our increasingly strained and crowded municipality. So, I hope the uh council uh also agrees with me to move the settlement consideration, settlement
resolution consideration to the top of the of the uh agenda uh very soon after public comment uh just so we can go into it uh in a little bit more detail. So, we wanted to also move it up if you're here about this resolution, if you stick
around for uh a little while, and I'm thinking maybe uh uh 15 minutes to a half an hour uh so we get through public once we get through public comment and response to public comment, you'll hear more discussion about this. >> Sound like a plan? >> Yep. >> Okay.
My other treaties is on the co public comment process. Uh and in preparation for that, I want to confirm that we are all on the same page of how public comment is regulated as per our audience, excuse me, our ordinance. If you would like to speak at
public comment, I will request raised hands and call on you to line up to line up a few speakers at a time. I'll say, "Okay, you're first, you're second, you're third." So, we'll we'll move that way and try to move things along. Once you're recognized by the chair, you come
to the podium to my right and speak for up to five minutes. Please be concise to speed up the process and don't feel obligated to use all five minutes. Uh, please everyone speak directly into the microphone and as loudly as you feel comfortable doing. After everyone has
commented, we on the deis may respond. Our ordinance for public comment requires the speaker to first state their name and address. It also specifies time limits and requiring particular conduct of the
public comment speakers who quote shall at no time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule. And if this actually happens, uh, the person will be called to order and and
will be forth with barred by the presiding officer from further audience before the council except that if the speaker shall submit to proper order under these rules, permission for him or her to continue may be granted by a majority vote of the council.
Uh those of you who have watched these meetings while I've been council president this year know that I'm a big uh first amendment and constitution US constitution guy and I want everyone to have a chance to seek redress from their government. I'm also a big fan of civility and I think a lack of civility and manners contributes to our political
conflict and inability to reach a middle ground. Council is a place to discuss our differences and often to find compromise to make West Orange an even better place to live. So I urge all of us to treat everyone as they would like to be treated. You can make your point without cursing or insulting anyone. And
I and the good sergeant will enforce our audience. So public comment gentleman in the front with the mask. Uh there's someone behind him with his hand up. You can be next. And is there is there anyone be behind
Mr. Waldman? Mr. Goldman, were you raising your hand? Sure. >> I'm not encouraging you. >> Okay. I I just saw there was a bunch of So, I'm just going to do these three and then I can see Ms. Iorio in the very back. So, we'll line up these four.
Please come to the and and then Mr. Wman and behind him, Mr. Goldzman and then M. Iorio. And then at that point, I'll call on some more people to speak. So, please go ahead. Thank you. >> Um, my name is Charles Upshaw Jr. I reside at 105 Roosevelt Avenue, West
Orange, New Jersey. Um, first I want to thank Mr. Suraldo for uh recognizing uh first responders. I'm retired North police officer, Northern New Jersey police officer and uh and I also uh well, let me just start.
Um, I rise uh this evening uh on behalf of three of my neighbors at 119, 121, and 123 Rosevelt Avenue. um as you know uh well behind their
properties uh there's a steep slope and their property is right at the ridge line of the steep slope and the steep slope is uh 25° steep slope and um back during the uh co uh there was a uh uh uh
the um builder was uh uh trying to get a variance to build on that steep slope. And I was uh opposed to them building on that steep slope because I did some research and I found uh information with
regards to uh bu building on deep slopes. And I found that um disturbing uh deep slopes could be catastrophic. And uh I'm just thankful that you know we didn't have um that much rain this
season. Uh it was pretty much a drought. But uh I know that my neighbors um have been experiencing um uh uh erosion uh behind their properties
even though we haven't had a uh um uh significant amount of rain. And because of that uh I'm I actually I recommended uh to my neighbors that they seek uh uh
legal uh counsel uh to uh obtain uh some resolution uh with regards to the peril that they're that I believe that they're in. Um, so I'm just, you know, asking, you know, the council if they can, you know, look
into, uh, you know, uh, how you can assist, uh, these homeowners, uh, in a what I presume to be a very perilous, uh, situation. And, and I, you know, would, uh, encourage you all to go to their properties and see for yourself.
Um, and I know that, you know, my one neighbor here, I know that she's extremely nervous about uh the situation. And I know I would be if I lived on a steep slope and right and my property was right at the ridge line. So, it's something that, you know, uh uh
should be uh dealt with, excuse me, dealt with. And I feel like uh the canary in the coal mine, you know, uh I'm, you know, explaining to you that, you know, there's something uh serious about the half and uh I pray that it
doesn't, but um you know, something that needs to be looked into, you know, right away. Um let's see, one other thing. >> Oh, I have some uh I don't know if I can submit this to you guys. >> Certainly. >> You know, just take a look at it. It's
some information. Um and uh let me see one thing. There's a a town in Pennsylvania, Kilb Pennsylvania. Um they had uh some uh building on a uh 25 degree uh um steep
slope and they suffered catastrophic uh results as a result of building on a 25 degree uh steep slope and uh it cost the town you know quite a bit of money because of allowing that variance. And
and and the other thing is that this company got a variance to build on this steep slope and and they had to get a variance because you shouldn't be building on a steep slope. As a matter of fact, we there's a city ordinance, you know, that prevents you from
building on a steep slope, but the zoning board decided they were going to just allow it anyway. So, and and that puts the town uh uh in um uh respons puts the town in in a responsible position because you know
the town allowed it to happen. So, I want to thank you all very much, you know, for your time >> and um I hope that, you know, you get an opportunity to come and take a look at the property and ask somebody in the town to start, you know, uh looking at, you know, what's actually transpiring
before something catastrophic happens uh in this situation. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Up, and thank you for your service. Mr. Waldman, please come forward. Thank you. Good evening. Um, I've just heard what this gentleman said, so I want to sort of change the order.
>> Your name and address, please. >> Everybody knows who you are, but >> I'm sorry. We all been West Orange. >> I'm sorry, Howell, who you said? >> Connell. >> Connell, thank you. >> I was just listening to this gentleman who I don't never imagine, but I wanted to bring something up that's going to happen at the planning board, and I'm
sorry the mayor's not here to hear this. Um, in September, a resident of Powell Drive asked the planning board to uh have a study made of the rockfall danger at in the cliff behind his house
and from the West Essex Highlands. And I called the board secretary yesterday to ask whether a report which the chairman ordered CME to prepare had come in yet. And I was told it hadn't come in.
And uh my concern is this. Um I've spoken to people on How Drive and I also have some questions about the uh rockslide potential and the the person on how drive and I both want to see this report and we don't want to get it, you
know, I don't know when it's going to be made public. The board uh uh secretary told me it's not going to be made to public until it's presented at the hearing. Well, that doesn't give anybody a chance, including board members, to read it, digest it, and ask questions about it. So, I'm asking, I guess, your
council representative, to make sure that we're not in a position where we have somebody testifying about this rockslide potential with a report that the public hasn't seen. Uh, that's the first thing. The second thing also tomorrow night at the public is I
believe public comment is going to start soon. Now, this hearing has been going on, I think tomorrow night will be the 21st meeting. Uh, they began in July of 2024, 15 months ago. There have been over a hundred documents submitted. And I'm
told that the board chairman intends to limit public comment to three minutes. Now, even tonight, I have five minutes. Uh, people have been at the going to these meetings for 15 months. I believe some have attended all the meetings.
This isn't, you know, the rule might be in usual cases three minutes. This isn't somebody putting a deck on their house. This is a a complicated application. It's got a lot of public importance. It directly impacts a lot of people's homes
and I think three minutes is really unreasonable. Um, and as a matter of fact, members of the of the council have have commented in the past how valuable they found some comments when people come up and and educate you and tell you things that you didn't know. I think
that the people who have come to these meetings have a lot of knowledge. They're talented people. They have a lot to offer. I think uh three minutes is really unreasonable. The next thing, the Open Public Meetings Act requires public bodies to have minutes and to make them
promptly available to the public. That's the quote. Instead of preparing minutes, the planning board is posting the transcripts of the meetings. That's fine. No problem with that. The problem is that the last trans transcript that was published was from the June 30th
meeting. There have been six meetings on West Essex Highlands since then. Uh, I know I've had hundreds of transcripts prepared over my career. It doesn't take this long to get them uh done. And the Supreme Court has weighed in on this. This is not going to be this is not
going to pass muster in court. Uh, and it's not fair to people. Um the final thing um Princeton Hydro is an engineering company that's experts for the objectors in West Essex Highlands and they issued
a report on September 3rd which is published which was submitted to the planning board. It's part of the public record. Yesterday I got an email I I was in a chain somehow from from the from the uh attorney for the objectors who had received an email from the planning
board attorney to the attorney to for the objectors reporting that quote someone sent the Princeton Hydro report to Tap into West Orange which is the website and it's their lead story and the attorney said the chairman is concerned that this was an attempt to
influence board members outside of the hearing. It's alarming for me that the attorney didn't simply tell the chairman, you know, there's a first amendment in this country. Uh the press has a right to publish what they want. And in fact, people, I don't know who published this, but people have the right to try to
influence their elected and their appointed officials. That's the heart of the first amendment. That's what it's there for. Uh this is all very disturbing in light of the history where several letters have been written to the council threatening the council with litigation for speaking and for allowing
people to speak. Uh I think this is a horrible commentary on our democracy. Uh and I think that somebody should try to put an end to it and I think it's incumbent on all of us to speak out against this. uh however the planning board uh turns out uh it should be a
fair open democratic process and I'm afraid >> time is up >> based on things I've said tonight I have s have sincere doubts that that's going to happen thank you >> thank you Mr. United. >> Uh, good evening, Justin Goldzman, 14
Maran Road. Um, thank you for that. As someone who has been subject to those threats about silencing and being sued at council meetings, I appreciate that very much to keep our democracy what it should be. Um, just some questions tonight um, in advance of the agenda as it relates to the Howard rule contract.
Um, can you please elaborate through your discussions as to what the $14,800 um fee relative to the West Essex Highlands will be for Howard Grul? Um, the description says that they'll just be reviewing the transcripts and given that the decision is rested with the planning board, can you please just
elaborate as to what Howard Gr's role will be um moving forward with the West Essex project as to why we're paying them just to read based on the descriptions. Um, as it relates to the no bid contract, it says that Malkea Apti will be the principal planner and the associate planner, Megan Adam, will
attend future meetings. Can you please, again, this is just for transparency sakes. Um, can you please just elaborate why two planners are needed for a combined $300 per hour and what are the differences in services and capabilities between those two planners and how did you come to that determination that both
individuals are needed? Um, Howard Grove presented the fourth round housing plan and while we know that this contract does not include those services for the housing plan, um, I believe most people in the town at that meeting were not satisfied with Howard Groul's um,
presentation. So, can you please I I know there was an executive session and you can't share what was said there, but can you please um shed some light for the public as to why that contract was um unanimously voted upon? And can you please perhaps assure us that the product that we'll be receiving moving
forward will be more satisfactory than the information that we had based on their previous presentation. Um I I was not satisfied, nor do I think many people were satisfied with the presentation we got about housing. So, I I know these are separate plans, but you
presented us one product that was not great. Can you please give us some assurances that the next product will be? Um, I know you're talking later on on the agenda about the Redwood School traffic updates. Um, updates are great. I've spoken to a lot of residents over there. I went to school there. Um, I
very much know that traffic and speeding has been an issue there for many years. So, while I think it's great that ordinances and um you know some speed limit adjustments are great, can you please just elaborate as to what enforcement changes might look because we do have speed limits right now there. Changing the speed limit really isn't
the problem. It's the enforcement of the speed limit. So, if you could shed some light on that, that would be great. Um as it relates to the Curry Lane sewer reimbursement, um I'm glad that that resident is being reimbured the $50 that he was overcharged. um maybe you can tell us why that was overcharged, if it
was just an overpayment or if that was an overcharge in and of itself and what we're doing proactively to ensure that residents don't have to seek mediation and we can just have the processes done correctly to begin with. And lastly, in a show of good faith, uh council president, on behalf of the town, as it
says in the agenda, can you please send Santa our warmest wristers when he comes to the golf course? So, I appreciate it. Thank you for your time tonight. Appreciate it. Is there anyone else who would like to speak after Miss Aorio? Please raise your hand. I see two I see three hands
over here. Same thing happened. Uh you can be next is and then the person behind you was raising his hand and then the person behind you raising your hand. You guys will be the next three in that order. Does that sound good? I'll I'll get the rest of the people. It's uh in a few minutes. Please.
>> Good evening members of the council. My name is Jennifer Aorio, Belleview Terrace. I'd like to address agenda item number 2943-25, an or an ordinance on second reading regarding Red the Redwood School Zone. This afternoon, I spent four hours
walking in the media area around Redwood School during the dismissal time. The amendments proposed in this ordinance are absolutely essential for public safety. I observed firsthand how these changes will improve safety for children and their families, especially
during drop off and pickup. Safe streets initiatives like this one are critical and should be expanded throughout West Orange. I continue to be shocked by the lack of sidewalks on Gregory Avenue, particularly giving it proximity at at the elementary school.
That's a serious safety concern for many residents both with and without children. Just yesterday near Kelly School, I saw how significant the congestion can get. And at St. Cloud, the narrow streets become nearly impossible during busy times. parking, safe streets, congestion, and
noise, all tied to uh directly to public safety and quality of life. I strongly encourage the council to continue pursuing this type of thoughtful safety focused legislation for the benefits of all uh residents and I continue to appreciate your hard work as a council
as uh part of the council. So, I appreciate you and thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, please. Oh, there you are. Hey. >> Sorry, Miss Klein. No problem. >> Please go ahead. >> Rachel Klein, Howell Drive. Um, I'm sure
you probably know what I'm going to talk about. Just a different angle this uh tonight. I want to just uh bring up um resolution 240-25 that Verona sewer upgrade. Um, it's a c
a courtesy resolution. Um, but I just don't want anyone getting the wrong impression. So, I want to bring up the resolution addressing the upgrades to the Verona sewer system. I have spoken to the deputy mayor of Verona and I'm speaking with their permission. But also, as a concerned resident wishing to clarify
something before someone somewhere makes an incorrect assumption, this is a courtesy sent to every municipality that sends some waste through Verona sewer system. Um, I'm positive I'm not alone in believing it needs to be stated that these upgrades are not to be seen by Western Orange as having anything to do with the proposal at the planning board
tomorrow night that Mr. Waldman brought up. It's true that these upgrades um that um the sorry this it's true that the sewer line to Verona um actually does take um the sewage from 300 units in the highlands and that is why West
Orange is getting this um information but Verona has zero capacity to deal with an additional 496 units or any future development that West Orange may be planning. So, I just wanted to get out before that. Um, I apologize. I can't stay to hear uh uh council's
response because my 11-year-old's furious with me. Thank you. Yes, please come up. Kenneth Gibbons, Seven Rigs Place. Good evening, U. Council members. Uh, I just wanted to stand up here. I've
watched you guys go through this budget, uh, meetings, numerous meetings, and I appreciate all the hard effort you guys spend doing that. um running for council member uh uh in and I've been here 57 years and if elected I look forward to
working with all of you and utilizing my CPA CGMA. I also have a master's in taxation and uh looking at the spending hopefully cutting some unnecessary spending and relieving the tax burden on residents that I hear from everybody
talking about. So, I just wanted to come up and thank you you guys for your effort and if elected, I look forward to working with all you. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Given. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Please raise your hand. Yes, you. We've already we've already agreed
you're coming up please. There's one. Who else has hand up? Uh >> all my friends >> I came with the team today. the AT. >> And then there's a there's someone on the end of the bench near the door has
his his right hand up. You can be next. And then next to him or not next to him, there's someone in front with glasses. Yes, you're waving at me. Hi. >> Thank you. You're next. After fellow behind you, >> my wife thought she was going to get away with it. So,
>> quiet. >> So, my name is Ezra McClendon. Um I'm at 52 Quimby Place in the Valley. Um, again, thank you for the council for allowing me to speak once again. It was a pleasure being here last time. I wish I came on a much more momentous occasion, but I see that we still have
some trepidation in getting this resolution passed for anything below Rollinsson. Um, as everyone knows, West Orange is a vibrant town. I've lived here for over 20 plus years. I really
enjoy our community, but I really feel and I I'm sure my colleagues and my neighbors behind me, they all feel the same way that there's a lack of respect for anything below Rollinsson. It's almost like Rollinsson and anything below Rollinsson is not even part of West Orange.
>> We really need to look at what's happening in our neighborhoods. Even this week, I had to talk to a person from Satan Hall um seat uh prep the prep school um from parking in the middle of my driveways. Right. This is a chronic
problem and I don't know what it's going to take. But what I do know what's going to happen is is that we're going to continue to press. I know what government does sometimes is where if we wait people out long enough, if we don't if we let them sit through it, if they keep complaining, soon enough they're
going to get tired. And what I'm going to get tired of is possibly just doing this. >> The action that we need to take is something that's proactive, not retroactive. This we've been talking about this way too long. There's an amendment here that has been put out
>> where there's a modification for all of the the alphabet streets within the valley to allow permit parking to take place. If the mayor's not on board, then that's fine. But we need to do something because the mayor may not live in in the valley. But there's a chronic issue
that's going on. And I don't know what it's going to take. I don't know what we need to do, but I think that we have a step here that puts us in the right direction. I also thought the last time we were here that the council was on board with moving this resolution along. And I don't know what the sticking point
is. I don't know what the the bottleneck is, but I I I implore this body to push this resolution forward, at least to start. I know this this other survey about oneway streets and I mean, and all the money that goes along with that, and
I heard about the budget crunches and everything else that's affecting the city, but changing the signs, allowing us to be able to have a better quality of life and being able to push this envelope forward for your neighbors. It's not I'm not just speaking for myself. I'm speaking for
every person that's standing behind me as well as people that are out here in the audience. Please push this forward. And I do want to make one comment from the last time that I was here. >> There's a thing called um stacking that we talked about before. Yeah. >> And I just wanted to reach back out to
that. Um, I understand the concept of it, but me as a neighbor within my neighborhood, it is not my job to police whether or not someone who owns a property has illegally illegally allowed somebody to live on the first floor, second floor, third floor. And I really
don't know what correlation that has to parking because everyone that lives in these houses may not necessarily be a driver, right? So, I don't want to get that tied up into whether or not we can or cannot get a resolution passed. Right? I think it's very
straightforward. And if you come through my neighborhood tomorrow or the next day, you'll see the issue that we face. So, I don't really think that I'm preaching to anybody that may not understand. And for what I heard last time, this is a long-term problem. And you and and everyone profess that this
is a new administration. So, let's do something new, right? Let's get this going. Let's do our parts. And I would be more than happy to sit here and celebrate along with each one of you for anything else that needs to happen going forward. Right. And the other side of it, too, is I thought that
there was supposed to be a meeting about this survey that was supposed to be happening about parking and and streets. Well, again, I'm going to ask if you don't want to have a specific person that's a community member a part of that, then speak to somebody else. I think that someone that lives in the
neighborhood really needs to be someone that has a voice within those meetings. A lot of the stuff happens behind the scenes and then next thing you know it's it's already law. We'd like to be a part of the conversation and I don't know if anybody else wants to say anything. >> Got it. >> Okay. But I thank you everyone. Sorry.
>> And then about the stacking I just wanted to point out that every time I've come here I've been talked to it has been stated about all of the multi-dwelling homes. All of our streets are different. Pot has no multi-dwelling homes. So that's why you need to have us
involved because you're not aware of really all of the intricacies of our neighborhood. So I just want to be clear about that. We need to be a part of the conversation. >> So excuse me for interrupting you. >> We have a process here where people are identified and the first thing they do
when they come up and speak is they give their name and their address. So please do that for the record. Joy Bernett 63 Pot please. >> Yes. Thank you, Joy. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> And we made it under the tile. >> Wow. >> Nice job. Thank you.
>> Next. >> So, I wanted you to come after the person behind you if you if you wouldn't mind. I called on him. Uh he was in the back row. He's got his hat on. He's going to take it off to come to the count up to the >> podium. Yes.
>> Mr. Bob, you had your hand up, right? >> Okay. So, please come up and then and then you can come up. So, I apologize for the confusion. >> Thank you. Uh Todd Deovi, Bernett Terrace. Um I'd like to discuss the proposed
settlement of the mayor's lawsuit against the council. First, the resolution 242-25 was only added to the agenda a couple hours ago. This is insufficient notice to taxpayers for such an important matter. In fact,
this is exactly why the council had voted to remove Richard Shrank as town, excuse me, town attorney. This is business as usual for from him where matters are added to the agenda last minute and without any background information to allow residents and
council members to assess proposed resolutions. Second, this is the mayor's lawsuit. She filed it. She sued the council because the council was doing its job of representing the taxpayers and holding Mr. Tran and the mayor accountable for
his poor and biased representation. The mayor doesn't have to like the decision made by the council, but she does have to accept and respect this is this is part of the process of managing a municipality. But to file a lawsuit against the
council has been done to suit her whims as mayor and nothing more. And it all it's accomplished is the unacceptable passing of unnecessary cost and expense to township taxpayers. especially
at a time when taxpayers are already strapped with some of the highest taxes in Essex County. Next, I I don't see the justification of promoting Mr. Smarl to BA. He was acting as the project manager of
the library buildout. This resulted in a public building that is not ADA compliant. How does a former fire chief allow that to happen? As a fire official, one would think he'd be focused on ADA compliance.
The library was also the subject of, I believe, 16, but could be more uh change orders costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars. And anyone who was paying attention to the budget workshop would have seen him repeatedly tell the council that he
didn't know about numerous issues that come under his purview. He was essentially unprepared to properly participate in the budget process. As a result, I have a problem with promoting someone who's unqualified for the role and and which has he's proven
by his job performance. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Bobby. >> Now, please. I'm sorry. Is there anybody else who'd like to speak? I see. Yep. Yep. You're next. And then you're next. Who else wants to speak? Can I see a
hand? Okay. None for now, but I'll be asking again. Please go ahead. >> Good evening. My name is Andrea Goodman. I leave live at 123 Roosevelt Avenue, West Orange, New Jersey. >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat the street name?
>> 123 Roosevelt Avenue. Felt like the president. West Orange, New Jersey. Um, block 172.02, lot 18. This is in uh in reference to a follow-up request for the uh
comprehensive engineering environmental review. I'm speaking out again as the owner of the property at 123 Roosevelt Avenue, West Orange, New Jersey, block 172.02, lot 18, regarding the serious property
damage and environmental concerns that have arisen from the construction of the Trojan to the Trojan storage uh at 955 Pleasant Valley Way, West Orange, New Jersey, block 172.02, 02 lot 8 Z 8.01.
This is directly behind my home. As previously reported, the development occurred on a steep slope and has resulted in a in a structural damage to my backyard, loss of soil substability, and evidence of erosion, several exposed
pipes and tree roots, increased water runoff, and rodent and insect infestation into my property. My elderly neighbor at 123 Roosevelt Avenue has also expressed the damage to her
property. I have submitted photographs as evidence of these conditions to the township and to the council members which clearly shows the ongoing excuse me ongoing worsening impacts. I
am still waiting for response from the township to investigate these damages with me present at my home. Thank you for your attention in this serious matter. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Council Michaela Bennett, Old
Indian Road. Uh let me just identify the parts of the agenda that I want to address. Oh gosh. Okay. So, in reference to 233-25
234-25 and oh gosh, sorry. Where's the settlement? >> It's the last one. >> The last >> 242, I believe.
>> Thank you. I'm sorry. It's in red. Let me see. Okay. 242-25. Um, okay. So, first, um, the public should be on proper notice for each of those items that I just enumerated. Proper notice means with the
documents. Um, in both of the instances of the deputy chiefs, there are exhibits that are referenced and unavailable for review. I want to review them. I'm sure there are members of the public that want to review them, and I can't properly prepare a public comment if I
cannot review the documents. Same is true for 24225 under different under different reasons. I finished work today at 4:30 and by 4:37, I was looking at the agenda for tonight's meeting. 242-25 was not on the agenda at that time. I
went back, I don't even know why I refreshed, but I went back and refreshed the agenda sometime after 5:30 >> and 242-25 appeared. That is not adequate nor proper notice to the public,
especially for something like this. We either adhere to the Open Public Meetings Act or we do not. And proper notice is proper notice. That's number one. Um I object to you moving forward on any of
those three um resolutions until proper notice is provided and until you provide people and I've raised this before I raised this I believe at the last meeting or the last time Mr. um Rivera was here that you have to provide the
public with the documents otherwise it's not you haven't provided notice. All right. But on this um issue of the settlement 242-25, we are a civil service township. We adhere to civil service law. Civil service law. It says it I I here I'll
read it. I'll read it into the record. Sorry for the delay. Township of West Orange operates under the New Jersey Civil Service system. This means the township's personnel, hiring, and policies conform to the rules and regulations established by the New Jersey Civil Service Commission and
the New Jersey Civil Service Act. I believe that is a law. That means personnel and hiring. West Orange follows civil service rules for recruitment, examination, and classification of employees. You are circumventing the civil service law and everything that's required of the civil
service law. and for the um for the individual who was going to lead this township as business administrator and for everyone that's been involved in working on budget to do that is a slap in the face to all of you and to the
public. Including a promotion to business administrator in a settlement about the township attorney is absolutely improper. It absolutely violates the
civil service um law and the way you have done this. Council president, you yourself stated that you created you wrote a treaties about this. That would mean that you had adequate notice. I happened to be here last night. I happened to be here before 6:00 but
through until after 7 o'clock. And because the senior um because the senior meeting was full standing room only, I decided to sit outside of the in the hallway and I happened to overhear the unmitigated hubris of Mr. Smiraldo on
the phone after 6:00. So he knew what was happening today, but the public did not get adequate notice. You gave the public less than an hour to know. And I can tell you because as soon as I found out about it, I posted it and I can tell
you that there are over 19 messages in my inbox saying, "How is this lawful?" And with the post, there are nine people who have already commented, none of them in support of what you're
doing or adding in a business administrator into a settlement about a township. >> Time is up. >> Inappropriate. >> Thank you, Miss Bennett. >> Is there anybody else who'd like to speak? Please raise your hand.
Good evening, Whitney Aldum, 5 Central A. Um, I will make it incredibly brief. I'm here to address resolution 23525. And by address, I just mean thank you uh for making quick work of your review um
and potentially our renewal. So, thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak at public comment? Please raise your hand. I'm not seeing any hands. So therefore, I will close public comment at 8:28
and offer uh any of my colleagues who would like to speak. >> Um I I could go real quick, >> please. Councilman Castelino. >> Okay. So, thank you all the residents
for coming down this evening. Uh, Mr. Upshore, I'm sure if he's still here, and the residents of Roosevelt Avenue, we'll be getting to that ordinance uh later on this evening.
We did I appreciate Miss Goodman also for coming out for that. you you sent me some additional pictures which I asked for and I'm going to speak to that later. I also hope I know administration was waiting for an answer
back from legal on this and so I look forward to hear that response when we talk about this later in the in the evening. >> Mr. Waldman, thank you so much and former councilman uh for, you know, all
of your time and effort and for your wisdom on this subject matter. Um, you've been at it for a very long time with with this subject matter and um I have learned a lot from you and
appreciate it. And I'm going to keep it at my comments uh limited as usual with this property, but um I just wanted to go unnoticed. I didn't want to go unnoticed that of
your advocacy for this. Um however, we do have our liaison to the planning board and I hope councilwoman you took copious notes. >> We did. um you know you you're our voice and you know we would like to see more
public comment on it. We're you know we're here to midnight. We go five minutes um unless it's you know we've been here to midnight where we started meetings which is insane um and not a great way to uh be productive but again
we value public comment. I know myself I had requested from my colleague and um the chairman that the affordable housing uh portion of the um
of their agenda next month that that be in public. I think it's important as well. I know it's supposed to be a Zoom meeting and I had asked a request if it could be in public. In regards to um Mr. Goldzman, thank you for coming this evening and and for your advocacy on all
these matters. Um, you know, we hired uh hire for the planning board. You know, this is their portion and also to be our affordable housing planner. So, as you
stated, there are two roles there and tonight's role is for the planning services on that end. So, um, we could talk about that a little bit more or um, administration can when we get to that part of the evening.
Um, someone mentioned enforcement. um you know and I'll let administration speak to that because enforcement um we need to be if we can't enforce ordinances we we shouldn't have them
because we need to be able to give out fines. Um I know the residents from Rison Avenue are here this evening and I thank them. I know they've been very frustrated. I thought I was hoping after the last meeting a public meeting
would be scheduled by now um to go over that plan. I think it's very important. I had requested one um at Hazel Avenue School which would be appropriate for your e uh for that area which we've had other ones in years past. I think it's
important uh that you understand what they're proposing with the one-way streets. As far as the signage, I I believe, and I'll leave that to our director of engineering, what signage can be uh changed immediately because they did put in for a signage change on
a lot of um the um street sweeping and other uh spots in order to make adequate parking in that area. But again, again, I got to defer to administration. Um council is supportive
of a change with permits. I don't know how the best approach for that. They'll have to present a plan to us. Um, you have I know I know what the residents want, but again with homeowners all up and down the street, we have to be fair to everyone in the area. So,
administration needs to present something to us if that's possible. Um, in regards to tonight's settlement, we're going to go into close session, so we'll talk to that when we come out. But, you know, this isn't a
surprise. We've been working on this, unfortunately, for quite some time now um to settle this case. We've mentioned it multiple times. So, for it to pop up, yes, I'm a little disappointed we didn't get documentation a little bit sooner
this evening, but as far as the council's concerned, we've seen the documentation for quite some time and we've been uh working on that. So, um, as far as the public and when they're entitled to it, I'll leave that to administration to comment on that. But I
look forward to finally putting this behind us. It's been a stain on our community. Um, it's been unfortunate. There's a lot of projects that have not been um moved forward in the past few years due to this litigation and it's
really really sad and not not healthy for our community. So I look forward to us moving forward with this and um you know sometimes with negotiation not everybody's happy with the results. That's I guess you kind of know we
always say with the unions that's kind of know when you know it's probably a good negotiation when both sides aren't totally happy. But um we have to move forward and so that's our job. We make the big bucks up here to figure out what's going to be the balance for the
community um even when we're not really happy with all the results that come out of a negotiation. last comment. Um, the stacking comment because I made that um that has nothing to do with what you want done on on your
street. I just wanted to bring up a point from the last meeting that um it has created and you're right, the resident shouldn't be policing that. Um, we have ways to enforce that. Um, but it's it's there and it's causing people
to park on the street. Maybe not your street directly. that that's the way you feel. But I've talked to others in your area um that have brought it up to me. That's why I mentioned it um from other complaints from other individuals.
Um not everybody comes to the meetings. You know, some folks don't want to come up here and so I commend you for wanting to come up here. Not everybody wants to come up here, but we still get those phone calls regardless. Uh, Safe Roots to School. Uh, we've received multiple grants. Uh, someone
mentioned that this evening. I have that note here. Um, we've been very successful with Safe Roots to Schools. We'll be continuing those efforts. In regards to doing more with sidewalks on Gregory, we definitely want to do more. Um, but again, we have not passed
a capital improvement budget in two years. Uh, this year we passed um, roadways, which obviously are very important. We have a lot of roadways in the township and so once we finish this budget this evening uh we need to look
at that. We've asked the administration to give us a prioritize a list of capital improvements that are desperately needed and but again we always look for grants with the sidewalks. Um but we are um we made progress in Lowel Lawrence and other
areas which um you're right Gregory is not always walkable. Uh but you'd be surprised also a lot of people's don't some folks don't want the sidewalks in certain areas too. So that's always an issue as well. But thank you everyone for coming out tonight. Appreciate it
all the comments and um look forward to the resolution the ordinance later in the evening. Thank you council president. >> Thank you. Who'd like to go next? >> She doesn't want to go smoke. >> Um uh everyone who came out um on
Roosevelt. Uh this has been a really difficult problem in our town forever with our zoning and planning boards sometimes making irresponsible decisions that cause problems on these steep
slopes. And I know all of our friends out in in the Highlands who have been coming and and bringing experts to talk to us about this. um it's something that needs to be brought to the attention of the people
who are making these decisions and I really um thank you for coming out and we're waiting for legal advice on this. Unfortunately, if I could wave a magic wand and make things happen for you, I
certainly would. Um, and we will do everything within the law that we can to help you, but it's something that our administration is going to have to really guide us on and follow up on with you. So, I'm going to ask that they do that. Give us that that advice. Uh, I
don't know if you want to do it now or when we get to that point. >> I'm That's how do you want to handle it? You want to wait till later we do the ordinance or >> Yeah, I Well, it's really up to I mean, you're the one that has the floor. >> Yeah, I would love to I would love some
color on it. I'd love I'd love some guidance on it on what we actually can do, if anything legally to support the residents. >> It's up to you, Council President. >> Mr. Small, >> so I would ask Director Kabala come up
also so she can help me out with some of these responses. But um I will tell you this that we looked at the 123 Roosevelt or the Trojan storage facility that's on Pleasant Valley Way. Um speaking to Director Carbalo and director uh Janice
Gary Adams, um that property was built in accordance to the the plans of the planning board. Our professionals went out and reassessed the property after the concerns from the last meeting that we raised. Um there be prior to the
certificate of occupancy being issued there was actually a delay because there were certain conditions that weren't met. I don't know the specific ones that were that were minor in nature from what I was being told and that um all conditions have been met in accordance to the plan. So um and you know the
certificate of occupy would not have been released if those conditions weren't met. So um it was built according to the plans and and that's really at the end of the day um why the CO was issued. So um that was from the advice from both the director here the
director of of of planning and also our construction official Mr. Beyond. >> How could there be pipes open in all this that that >> I'm going to ask the director if she can we we did not see any observations to
this uh that I'm aware of. Um, and there were there have been photos that have been furnished that a lot of this a lot of the issues were more than away from the property line, but I'm not I'm going to leave that to the experts. So based on the information that the
director of planning gathered um on the records, there was definitely testimony from the structural engineer and a geotechnical engineer at the time that this uh application was presented to the board and they agreed that there was no
issues with the steep slopes and actually that the building acted as the wall or the retaining wall for the uh property. Based on my conversation with the legal department, it basically says that it is not something that the municipality would like to get involved
with. It's actually a matter between two neighbors that they need to actually settle among theelves. meaning that the property owner at 123 or 127 Roseville Avenue will have to actually
contact um I would say the insurance company for which we could provide her with the certificate of insurance that was provided to us um at the time the construction started that would be a good start but other than that it's not something that I will say the township
has to be involved meaning we're not going to go to the property and be doing an assessment of it. Um, clearly the applicant for this Trojan storage did what they were asked to do
as per the resolution and we have a letter from our professional engineer consultant basically saying that it was okay to release the performance bond. In exchange, they submitted a three-year landscaping
bond and we have to return the money that was submitted to us three years ago. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, what are you saying that that the resident has to go get an insurance go
to go through insurance? Is that the town? >> Best the best that I will be able to do is give her the certificate of insurance that was submitted to the township. >> Mhm. and she can contact the insurance company and deal with that with the owner of the Toronto Storage.
>> Doesn't the doesn't the township have any liability? This was approved by the zoning board on a 25% slope grade. >> They were warned while while the during the during the hearings, there were repeated questions. I don't know if you
were if you were employed at that point. There were repeated questions about what's going to happen on this steep slope. The answer was we will find out once at all >> once the the drilling starts. The damage that these neighbors are seeing was not
immediate. It's gone on over time. As rains come, they get more and more damage. So, it's not something that could be seen the day after the the building was up. I understand what you're saying and yes I was not part of the application and yes I was not an
employee of the township at the time but the one thing that we all need to understand too is this this went to a municipal land use board >> correct >> at the time of the application the applicant brought in their experts for geotechnical and structural they were
hurt and the variances were granted >> the application was approved the applicant did what he was asked to do as per the resolution of approval. Our consulting engineer did the inspections. They wrote a letter
on behalf of the township. So, I don't see how we're going to say now we're not going to give them their performance bond. Well, I understand, but there are other issues about the performance bond, but the fact that the zoning board created is a a variance to
allow dis um disruption of the 25% steep slope ordinance. They were told this is going to wreak havoc on the neighbors property and in fact that's exactly what it what happened. Isn't the t isn't the town now liable for that damage? Council
President, >> guys, guys, I I understand the upset by the residents. I understand your concerns here, but again, we have been told over and over that the performance bond is not related to any damage that
has been done off the Trojan property. the the planning board approved this the variances and the application and it's nothing that the town council can do now or could do back then. As everybody on
this deis knows, the planning and and land you and uh zoning boards >> are are separate entities that are controlled by the separate land use law and as as much as I I join
you in wanting to help these residents, it does not appear and this is after we put this uh tabled this at the last meeting and did further the research, there does not appear to be any legal relation between this performance bond
and the complaints of the residents. And that's going to have to be a totally separate situation. And and it's going to involve legal guidance. Okay? >> And it's not something that we're going to be able to do to fix right now. I
know I keep saying that, but as much as we're concerned, it's not something that we're going to be able to fix tonight. >> I I'd have a separate point, but just in terms of meeting the performance bond, I walked the entire property around there and I compared it with with the
landscaping plan that was in in place when the when the application was approved and there are many things that are not in compliance. So there are dead trees. There are areas where which which were not even planted in. Um
there are not enough plantings in the back. There's a slope exposed. A number of things. So I'm just concerned just based on that the performance bond should not be released. >> If I'm not mistaken on the last council meeting, I said to you that they submitted what is called a landscaping
>> punch maintenance bond, >> right? in the amount of I believe $10,000 or so. So, we're gonna have that for at least two to three years and in that interim of time, we will have to go do an inspection and they will have to replace the trees otherwise we will go
after their bond which typically none of the contractors that I ever deal with wants us to do that. So, that's what the landscaping bond is for. >> Well, I would just >> they have two years to address that. I'd like some advice in terms of what do we say to the residents whose whose
properties are really, you know, endangered by an application that was approved by one of our land use boards. >> We don't want to see another Ronin. Where do they go to to get redress? Every time it rains, I I go by those
properties and I pray that they haven't fallen off the cliff. Again, if I can interrupt, Councilman Ruden, I share your concerns, but I think the best way forward and is to for them to seek legal advice, legal guidance just like we did
to understand that the performance bond is not related to any potential damage, any alleged damage on these properties. And we couldn't influence it then, we can't influence it now. I I I the only thing I can offer is that they should get legal guidance and then decide
themselves what the next steps are because it's not something that we c we can handle and certainly not Miss Carbala who is extremely uh capable but is not a lawyer >> I'm not >> Is there anything else
>> is there anything else? >> No. >> Thank you Mr. >> Thank you all. >> Back to you council scarpa. >> All right. Uh Herb Walman, thank you so much for uh outlining all of these issues that need to be
addressed. I took copious notes. I will um get on it. I have to say um I agree with you. You know, the words you used unreasonable. It's unreasonable for residents of this town to have only
three minutes to speak on an issue that is so complex that has taken up so much time at each and every meeting. It's I mean it's clear that just to get started on some of the issues that are going to need to be talked about their
engineering issues or storm water issues. it I it's unconscionable to me that we would limit you to three minutes and um I'll just make a request. Um I also think not having the study, you
know, study should be available. I don't know how how long this is taking and why, but you know, I will I will make a request. Um and of course there's no excuse for not having the minutes. We've, you know, this we've talked about
this, I think, at every meeting and, uh, we need to step up and do a better job for our residents. Um, and to my council colleagues, I just got the, um, fourth round review yesterday and I did make a
request that it be sent to all of you. Um, so that should be coming and I think I copied you on that, so you should be getting that. Um, but uh I I thank thank you Mr. Wman and I'll see what I can do.
Uh, Justin Goldman, you have some very very good points. Um, I agree that the 148 um really needs to be spelled out what exactly they're going to be doing. And
it's unfortunate that we've had to go in that direction because so much work had been completed so far and you know it would just would not be feasible even though we we didn't like the plan. I think most of us didn't like the plan.
Uh it would not be feasible given the LA the time frame we were already missed the June 30th deadline to enter into any kind of agreement with another planning firm. But we're doing the best we can with what we have and and your questions are good ones and we'll try to get some
answers. Um is that something the administration can um outline what exactly specific what specifics the uh grl is going to do for the 148? We didn't have any real real specific tasks that they're going to do. >> The 14,800 for tonight is about the work
that they're going to do for the planning board. It has nothing to do with the affordable housing plan. This is >> we know that but it doesn't really describe specifically. >> This is what's anticipated from the planning director. She said that there's going to be applications. This is what she thinks is going to be the cost of
what's going to be associated with the work to be performed >> and she can't specify that any further. >> I can ask her to to to give that to you. >> Yeah, I think I just don't know what the projects are. She just said that basically that she anticipates that's what it's going to be these applications that that were submitted. Right.
>> Um, so >> but obviously we would like to see that and I think the public would like to see a little bit more detail. >> I will discuss I will discuss with the director. >> Okay, that would be great. Um and um
Ezra and all of our friends who have come here so long advocating for permit parking, which they absolutely deserve and should have, particularly the people that don't have driveways. I know you were told for
years we were doing our parking study. Well, now we've done our parking study. And I don't I think most of my colleagues up here want to see permit parking for you on your street. And I know there is a plan to do the oneways. Um maybe that needs to be looked at, but
it definitely needs to be looked at in consultation with the neighbors because we've done this in other areas on Letington Road and half the street is for it and the other half of the street is against it. So, it's a complex issue that has to be worked out with the neighbors and the neighborhood, which is
why I'm very surprised that our administration did not invite you to sit down with them. You know, we suggested that that would be a good thing to do. And Councilwoman Ruden and myself offered to, you know, be in those meetings. Again, that's that lack of
collaboration that we as teachers get graded on, right? And know how to do so well. Um, so I would just ask that the administration u just talk briefly about that and how they can collaborate a little better with the residents to get something put in place as soon as
possible. >> Is that it? >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Is there a response, Mr. Smald? >> Sure. >> So, we did take in questions from Councilman Ruden that were sent in by the um by the residents. I the police
department, the engineer, and others. We we gathered together last week to discuss some of the options. We did get in contact with uh Dynamic Traffic and um Triple G Associates, I believe it is. Um I don't want to mispronounce it, but
they they're the provider. We did get another response from them for another proposal to continue with the project. We know that we're we're very conscious of this the fact that the the uh the council is in looking for us to move forward with this project, which we're we're looking to do.
In addition, um the police department has uh secured a quote for a parking permit application which will be available not just for the township uh for the Rollinsson area but for the entire township um and it's at a nominal
cost um so where we can implement it. So we're looking to move forward with that project and Mr. Datiniac uh we we we've sent it to him for for final approval. So we're moving forward with that. Um, and we just discussed today at the director's meeting again uh with our staff about about the Rollinsson area
because we knew that was going to be a subject tonight. Uh, one of the things that we were talking about is bringing ordinances to you for consideration because if we change anything with the directions and the parking and all that, it has to come to the council for consideration. So, we're in the process
of discussing that as well. So, it's not that we haven't heard and not that it's falling on deaf ears, but as you know that sometimes unfortunately this process takes us a little while to get things accomplished, but we're moving forward with it because we we I think we
were all in agreement today in our meeting that we should move forward with the with certain sections of the valley. Now, that said, there's some things that are going to have to come to the council for capital improvement, and that's where I know Councilwoman Castelino asked that earlier. We have our
priorities. We're going to be presenting them, but we're getting through this whole process. So, it's it's not falling on deaf ears. Um, we're listening. In regards to another meeting in the neighborhood, Councilwoman Ruden did ask me about that. Um, and was specific more for bringing in dynamic traffic to
listen. Well, that's the last contract that we had with them where they made their presentation and and and the the documents we have online. That contract is expired. Anything we can do now going forward is going to cost us money. So we we recently received a proposal. Uh
Director Carbalo and I have to go over it to see if this is what we exactly want to spend and how much we want to spend and if that proposal makes sense. But that includes other public meetings. So again, this is not as if we're not listening. It's just unfortunately is
this is the process. So we and we hear the we hear the neighborhood. We we listen to them. So, we're we're going to we're going to look at trying to get some of this stuff resolved. It's just going to take us a little while. >> Well, I like it. I really hope that we can begin with the things that aren't going to cost us any money, like maybe
solving some of the permit parking um for these neighbors. When we did Lington Road, the neighbors were very, very included. We gave them surveys. We found out how people felt about the one way. We haven't done any of that for these neighbors on Rollins.
>> That's not true. We we we've had neighbors come into the the um into the mayor's office open hours, people from Mitchell Street specifically and a few others coming in. They're going around. They're talking to the neighbors. So, we have had conversations with with the neighborhood. They come in. You know, I I encourage if somebody wants to come
into the mayor's open office hours, it's on November 6th. Please come in. We can we can speak about it. You know, um but we are looking at it that, as I just mentioned before about the permits, we are looking at a permit system. It's going to cost probably about4500 $5,000.
It's going to be an appbased system. So, u the police department is looking actively in it. They recommend it. They think it will be beneficial to us not only in the valley but the entire community because then that generates revenue. So, we're we're looking at we're looking at all these different um
processes, >> right? And if we decide to move forward with the recommendation of the one ways, are we going to get the neighborhood involved in surveys just like we did with Lington Road? >> We could discuss that. Yes. >> Because I really believe that these neighbors deserve a voice and they
should be a part of the process and I would like to see it more collaborative if >> if I could just one at a time. You guys are having a great conversation but you're talking over each other. So please I just want to see us work more collaboratively with the neighbors. We we had that discussion today. Exactly
what you're talking about. We had that discussion today at the New York City. >> Yep. >> You done? >> Yes. >> Council, >> thank you. I just want to pick up where um my council colleague left off on the on the Rollinsson and the permit parking
which doesn't only affect their neighborhood, but also um way down on Main Street, the whole Park Street area, which has also been clamoring for permits. Today we got this morning we got an ordinance that would address uh stop signs and permit parking on the
Rollinsson and below area. That's already ready. We've I I assume everybody here has seen it. Why can't we just move on that? Let's let's get something going and get it going by next council meeting. we can easily give them
permits without going to what you're referring to as an app system. Are you is that is that some sort of software that you're referring to? >> It's a software. Yes. And and it's not as easy as just issuing out a certificate because the police department has to register people. They
have to come in. It's it's not as simple as okay, let's just do this in two weeks and you can get a permit. We have to print the permits. We have to take where they're going to be. This actually this app this app according to the police department is going to be so much better because we don't have the staff when they go get permits they have to go to
the traffic unit. If the traffic unit's not in they can't get it they can't get a permit. This is actually allowing our residents more accessibility. They could do it 24/7 and get online. They don't have to wait for a police officer to actually be within the traffic unit to issue a permit. >> When is this system going to be in
place? We were just we just had to discuss this last week the police department and um they're going to be looking at the purchase order and we'll have to figure that out. I don't know the exact time frame. >> So in the meantime, it sounds like that could be a difficult roll out. So I'm just going to make a suggestion to the administration. These people have been
suffering for 20 years. Why can't we just give them the permit system that all of the other neighborhoods that have permits are using? give them a sticker which allows them to park and have some sort of preferential um treatment for those who do not have
driveways and that is basically what is in the ordinance that was presented to the council today. It also addressed the problem that we have with stop signs which it it is in the council's purview to change the distance from the stop sign. I understand that there is a
better way and that technology will help us, but in the short term, I would like to urge this administration to to give them the parking permits and to change the stop sign ordinance. We have both of those drafted already. Why not bring it
forward in the next meeting? >> So, as far as the ordinances, I will discuss that with Director Kabalo. Um, and again, as I mentioned before, a parking permit. We don't have all the permits for the areas. We won't have them identified. We have to buy these per parking permits. So, it's a cost.
Sometimes these stickers cost us as much as the app. Why do you want us to do it twice or do you want us to do it right the first time? And that's what we're looking to try to do. We're trying to be cost effective here. That's what we're trying to do. So, we're going to do what we can to make this as quickly as possible to get this implemented so that
we try to take the the the angst off the neighborhood. We're not we're not trying to delay the process. We're just trying but for us to to to dedicate our staff and and the hardest part, which was explained to me by the the police department, is that it's going to be the staffing. We may not be readily
available all the time to to staff the the area to issue out these permits. and and a lot of times when the officers are working, people may be working and you know just for convenience. So I will discuss again with the police department and see what we could do about rolling this out quicker.
>> Okay, this I'm just going to end with this that this is really necessary that we move on this fast. It was done for the neighborhoods above Rollinsson. It needs to be done as quickly as possible for the neighbors below that and also for the neighbors who live in the Heights. We cannot wait until a new
software is rolled out and even though that's the best. So in answer to your question, do we have to do this twice maybe and I think that if we can figure out a way to do some fundraising to buy stickers that say permit parking, we can we can possibly do that. Um so I I I
understand their frustration and they're probably going to be back at every meeting. So, let's get them the stickers and and the permits and and and and this frustration. Um, Mr. Waldman, your um comment about the CME
um steep slope um review that has not been presented. It needs to be presented 10 days before the um the land use board is is discussing this. So, I'm not sure why that is taking so long. That is our
ordinance that it has to be reviewed 10 days before it has to be up. I hope that that will happen. I know that my colleague is taking back all of your reports and she'll urge that all of us really feel very strongly that there needs to be more transparency. I do want
to say that the November 10th meeting dealing with the affordable housing is now going to be in person. I think it will be here. I am calling out to everybody that they attend this meeting because it's been tweaked and I'm not sure how much it's
been tweaked. And I also want to let the public know that the affordable housing plan that we just got today is now online so that you should go and review it too and make sure that you're up to speed and come out and advocate not even if it's just in your neighborhood but what this is going to do to our entire
entire township. Um Mr. Goldman, you raised really good points. Um there has not been satisfaction with the higher rule plan and um we are not the ones who proposed that hired rule be be brought on as the planner. The planning board
acts independently. They asked to hire her. We just are in the are in the position of having to authorize payment for her. But I do agree that it's not clear and I know at the last minute they sent somebody else not Susan Grul who seemed to be a more junior um planner at
a very very important meeting before the planning board. So I'm not really sure about that and I think that we have to look a little bit more carefully at that. Um I think we talked a little bit about some of the issues having to do with um the Roosevelt um street and and
the flooding. Um, I need I think we need to find out what the next step is for these neighbors, whether they now need to go to which department to to discuss the legal implications. Mr. Smeer, where do they go to discuss?
>> This is as as the council president mentioned and I think the the director mentioned, this is a civil matter between two parties. This is not a matter for our legal department and we can have our legal opine on that but um you know this is one of these um issues that we I I would caution you that this
is something that we shouldn't be speaking about at the deis again because this could subject us to being brought into any kind of legal matters. >> Well, I hope that when we have a new attorney on board that that u Miss Goodman has somebody to talk to. >> I'm pretty confident he's listening.
>> Okay. Is he Is he here? >> Yes, he's sitting right in front. >> Welcome. Welcome. You're getting to know us >> and we'll get to know you s very soon, I hope. >> Um hopefully he won't leave before the end of the
>> screaming out of Trot. Um, council >> I would like to ask I I mean I hear the concerns that were raised by Miss Bennett in terms of the settlement not being put on until like a half hour before our meeting. Um, that's something
that you have always raised a concern about about lack of transparency and I'd like to know what the what the regulation is in terms of that because even though this has been a confidential settlement that we've all had to keep quiet about much to our own individual
duress um and that we could not put it out uh before it was signed. I I'd really like to know why this wasn't put up before a half hour and whether or not that that's legal. And I guess we have a lawyer here who can help us and let us
know if that if that is legal that it was done in this way. >> Counc. But he is not our lawyer. >> Not yet. >> Okay. So if you want to move along provides that the president can add anything to the agenda up to the meeting as long as it's before the meeting with
the approval of the president the code provides that it can be added to the agenda. >> Okay. Well I know that I know that before you were on council that was a very big issue for you indeed. And it I believe it still is now when when things are added last minute and the public um
who has been drawn into this battle um as much as as much as we have for two over two years over two years. Um so I'd really like an answer. I mean you're saying that it can be done but is
it the is it the moral thing to do that? Is it the is it the fair thing to do to our community? Unfortunately, that's a question that I can't answer. >> Okay. Um um Mr. Dovi, you raise really excellent
excellent points. Um how how much money this has cost us as a municipality. I raised this last time, hundreds of thousands of dollars. so that we could pay for lawyers to battle this out because of one reason. The
mayor decided to sue us because she was unhappy that the prior council did not allow her personal choice of a lawyer to remain in place and that has cost the township dearly >> not only in expenses but in term
>> if I could I just want to caution you again. I'm not familiar with the lawsuit so I can't opine on what you can and can't say. I just want to caution the whole council again about commenting on the lawsuit. >> Okay. I would >> well just to clarify that was the nexus of the lawsuit is that the previous
council wanted to remove the town attorney and to uh cancel the or not renew the contract with his law firm. That was the nexus of the lawsuit. So that's just public record. But >> understood. But as we're as we're going to start talking about it and the council is going to all want to talk
talk about it, I just want to comment and and remind the council that I don't know the details of the settlement to tell you when to not say things and what's allowed to be said and what's not allowed to be said. So if you're going to speak about the litigation, just be very careful. >> Okay? I'm not talking about the details, but you know, in in part of in part of
this whole settlement, I think that the the council had to make agreements that were not related to just the replacement of the lawyer. And it is unfortunate that we were put in that position. I
don't think that that is standard. Maybe that's what's called negotiations, but that's that's the position that we were put in. Um, and you know, I I think that we made some decisions because we felt that the
higher good would be achieved by changing out our lawyer and having somebody who will have integrity and be able to guide us and move our ordinances and move forward um the
business of the township and stop this this litigation. So that's I I I totally understand your frustration and sometimes deals have to be made and we unfortunately were put in the position where we had to take some lumps in order
to make a big change for our council. Um Jennifer Iorio, thank you for bringing out the changes to Redwood School. Um, I live right near there and I can't tell you how excited I am that some changes for safety are going to happen and and
we need to also continue to make upgrades around our township for streets. The whole situation with Gregory has begun and everything that good that is going on. I credit credit our township engineer um, Ziath for
making those changes and for being responsive. I think that's it. That concludes my comments. Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilwoman Castle, you had raised your hand a long time ago. Um, Councilwoman Ruden had the floor. Did you still want to speak? >> Yeah. Ju just just real quick, and we
Well, it's not a resolution tonight, but with the uh one-way streets and dynamic traffic, I'm really going to urge um administration to do that. Do do a o open meeting at Hazel. I think that's
just the easiest best way because it is a good plan. They need to understand the neighborhood needs to understand all the parking spots they're going to pick up uh in that area. And because permit parking too, I mean, you could also you want a quick fix, you could you could uh
change the permit parking on the other streets if you want to and that will change things real quick and lift all the permits. So, you know, people could park in other places. So you can do that also as an option. Um because I'm telling you now like the people who do
not come here do call and you know some people want to make sure that when they have uh guests come to their homes they're going to be able to park in front of their house and you give everybody permit parking if you don't do it strategically. I know you want to rush it but if you don't do it
strategically um you know you're going to get complaints the other way. So, we just have to be careful in everything we roll out and really, you know, be thoughtful about it. That's all I want to add it. Thank you, Council President. >> Oh, can I just add I'm so sorry. One more thing. Sure.
>> I'm so sorry. Um, I just I forgot one point that I wanted to mention, which was that there was a question about contracts going before us that had to do with our two deputy chiefs. Um, we did not get the backup. We did not get uh that was not posted online. That is not
uh according to our code. And I'm going to ask ask my council colleagues to to wait on that until we get the information and the backup that we need. C can I just just uh clarify that? Are you saying that the contracts and the
related materials on the two deputy police chiefs was never put up on uh the township website? >> That's right. Since >> is that is that correct? I don't want to put you. >> It wasn't and I went back on my I couldn't find the email to see if I had
received it or not. So, >> it's been on the Google doc. >> It was on Yeah. >> It's in the share drive, >> right? >> Yeah, it's on the shared drive which is but it's only open to council. That doesn't do any good.
>> The resolutions were online. The contracts were not and not the backup and not a prior contract. that is not enough information for us to make a decision. >> Well, >> you have >> the council has it, but the public has not has not been given it. And in
fairness to the public, which has weighed in a lot on financial issues, especially our CBA, our budgetary, we need to make sure that that is available to the public in time. So, I don't think we can move forward on that. >> Okay. Anything else, Councilwoman?
>> That's it. Thank you. >> Okay. So, I'll try to respond. I realize it's getting quite late, but I want to try to respond uh as much as I can. I want to thank Mr. Upshaw uh uh for and his neighbors for coming to speak to us
again about this situation. And I think it's very clear that the information that we have is that that performance bond uh with the uh uh storage unit storage place is is not something that
that is appropriate in the the potential dispute about alleged damage from the project to the uh residents above. And and again, as as far as I can tell, you may need to speak to a lawyer about what
your next step should be. Um, Mr. Waldman, as usual, you're former councilman and uh quite a good lawyer, and so it's always good to hear uh you when you when you come to the meeting. You've raised several uh
points that once again I feel totally inadequate to respond to because it has to do with the uh West Essex Highlands and uh uh the rock slides and it's just not something I can really respond to now. But please please keep coming. It's
very informative. Uh Mr. Goldsman, I'll I'll try to respond to some of your questions. Uh I think they were answered previously about Higher Gr uh as to where the the the source of the $14,800
request. Uh you also asked about uh Redwood School and the ordinance that's on uh the agenda today. Just so you know, on second and final reading, uh anybody can come up and speak at the public
hearing on any ordinance. So, if you wanted to come up and and speak more, but I can I can tell you right now that one of the first things I did when I saw it was to ask for the history of the enforcement. And there's actually been quite a bit of enforcement um in the
area around here. And it informed the development of of the ordinance because the uh violations and speeding uh tickets uh around there showed the potential problems uh
particularly as uh Missorio said about drop and and pickup. So there was considerable enforcement and uh it informed the uh ordinance. Um
there was a question about uh from Miss Klene about uh West Essex Highlands and how that might impact the sewage treatment uh in Verona. Uh my understanding
is that one of the things that West the Six Highlands has not disclosed in this whole application is where they are going to have not only sewage treatment and but also water uh
to serve that proposed development. So, uh I don't even know that that that Verona would be someplace that where the uh sewage treatment would be would come from. Uh Mr. McClendon, again, I I I appreciate you and all of your neighbors
coming here. Uh as far as I can tell, we as a council are totally agreed on trying to fix the parking problem on Rollinsson and below. And we have had
some motion and movement as councilwoman Ruden uh said. Uh this is one of these situations where because of our charter, we have very specific authorities and responsibilities between the council and
the mayor. And the mayor has to make this stuff happen there. She's the the mayor is the person in responsible for operations. and we can push, we can help, and we're doing so. And all you got to do is look to my right. And and uh together in a collaboration, that's
what's supposed to happen. So, we're moving. We're not moving nearly as fast as everybody up here on the Deis would like, but we are moving. And uh uh you're of course more than welcome to come uh back to council meetings uh anytime.
Uh, Miss Bennett and Mr. Dovi talked about the set of the litigation settlement tonight and I just want to agree with you that there was not nearly as much
public notice and availability of the documents as there should have been. when I agreed with our lawyers yesterday morning, it seems like a year ago, yesterday morning when he informed me that this was uh we were now in a
position to move forward to a council meeting and he suggested today, tonight I thought that was a great idea. I thought everything was done. Everything was not done. And under our ordinance, the council president
does have the authority to add legislation to the agenda uh within the what's typical the 48 hour period before a council meeting. At the time that I said this was going to happen uh yesterday morning, I expected that we
would have the all of the materials up online yesterday afternoon. They obviously didn't get up until late today and and uh while it's not anything I I foresaw, I probably should have foreseen. I should have said, "Put it in
my lap and then we'll schedule." But I do have to say it has been uh almost a year of the the hardest negotiation I've ever been involved in. Back and forth.
I'm not even going to go into it, but what we what came out yesterday morning was final agreement. As I mentioned to you, a lot of this material, a lot of these uh documents were agreed to months ago, but because we couldn't get all the
ducks in a row, it still lasted till uh towards the end of October. Uh so the question would be, is that something we want to wait another two weeks to? Please, could you know more than ever,
please do not speak out from the audience. >> If you Sergeant Sergeant, >> yes. >> If she continues to speak out, would you please remove her from the audience? You know better than anybody else in this room that I don't allow speaking from
the audience. Thank you. But I do want to say this. Mr. Deaui and Miss Bennett are among the most knowledgeable people in this township. I would say in the top 20
who are so knowledgeable about Mr. Tran's record as town attorney and have told hundreds of people about what he has done to this town, not for this town, to this
town. So, I would think because neither one of you said anything about the fact that this is going to remove Mr. Trink, I I'm just shocked that you wouldn't say, "Okay, yeah, it's great. We got rid of Mr. Trink, and that's what I hope we're going to do.
because you know how bad he has been for this township. You also know that in I know Mr. Debaui does because he's been involved in in complex negotiations for decades
that this is the nature of a complex negotiation. Yeah, I wanted a lot more, a lot better, a lot different in this agreement, but I had to settle for what I could get. I had to, and when I say I, I mean
all of us, all of the council people. There are there are parts of this agreement that, you know, I have to hold my nose about. And I've already talked about one of them. >> Council President, if I could again, just want to remind just be careful about talking about settlement discussions and during the meeting.
>> Yes, sir. I apologize, >> but I'm trying to explain even if you guys come back to us a week from now and read all the documents say, "Why do you do this? Why didn't you do this? Why I'm not sure we could even talk about this. This is like uh I don't
even I don't even know. It's like a casserole. You can't pull it apart. You pull one piece of You take out the ground beef and uh the the other side takes out the green pepper. You know what I'm saying?
What we got, I hope, is that we got rid of Mr. Tran and his law firm. And I think you really need to think long and hard about a future that did not that does not include them.
and we are trying to replace them with two uh a town attorney and assistant town attorney that have impeccable reputations and histories of of excellent municipal
uh legal service and it I believe as I said before is going to turn this town around and that's that's what we're trying to do. So, yes, you can pick at it. And yes, I was wrong. When I agreed to this
yesterday morning, I thought all the documentation was ready. It'd be up on the on the uh the website by yesterday afternoon. And it and it wasn't. And you know, if if if you speak to the uh our attorneys, you
will know I was frantic and pulling my hair out and asking him why we couldn't get these documents finalized. But it is what it is and uh I will uh I will accept the the the uh the
criticism. Uh, but I think in the long run, I think when you do have the time that you think you need to do this, to review this, you will agree that the good for this township is not only now,
but you look at at this in another year and we're you're going to say, "Where the heck have we been for 30 years?" That's that's what that's the kind of uh improvement that that uh that I'm expecting. and and both of you of course
are uh welcome to your opinion of Mr. Smaldo who has been an assistant business administrator and a business administrator for multiple years. He ran the fire department for a number of years. But since January when I came on the
council again, I believe he has served the council well in my opinion. We certainly have dis differences and disagreements and I think again other uh council members do too, but but I am satisfied that Mr.
Smaldo is qualified and and has served us in the township more than satisfactoryily uh in my experience and this is just part of a compromised settlement and uh uh and it is it is what it is. Um, I I know Councilwoman
Ruden talked about seemed to indicate that there were pieces of this agreement that were more or less extraneous to the fact of to the potential of getting rid of or rem uh separating from Mr. Train.
But what happened was all of the professional services appointments that are made in the first part of the year where we hire attorneys and engineers and all those others, they got caught up in this because we said, "Look, you're you're not going to uh we said to the mayor,
you're not going to work with us. We're we're not going to work with you." You see where that got us? But that's what happened. All of these professional services advisory contracts got backed up and we've been sitting around without a redevelopment council for most of the
year. Um, and now we have broken that log jam. And again, I really expect great things of the township and you guys, you residents should expect it as well. And I'm also very concerned about the litigation
expenses. I I don't think it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's probably somewhere between $100,000 and $200,000 from the stuff that I've been looking at. That's still outrageous and unacceptable. But if we don't settle this and we go to
uh go to trial, go to more depositions and then probably lose at the at the trial level and go uh to the appeal process, we are going to be spending tens of thousands of dollars more. Here we are. We're going to cut this off
and we're not going to be bleeding legal expenses. So, it's now almost 9:30. Let's get to the star of our public agenda uh resolution. What is it? 242.
>> Yes, >> 242. That is I I need to just ask your uh my colleagues if you want to agree that we should move this uh resolution up while people are here so that they can hear it. Is that is that okay? >> Okay,
>> madame clerk. >> Okay. 242-25 resolution approving various settlement, employment, and professional services agreements. Is there a motion to approve? >> Make a motion to approve 242. >> A second. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I just want to make one more comment. >> Okay. So, now now we can discuss this. If perhaps it would be uh a little bit easier if I can find my notes to describe this what this is to people who have not yet
had a chance to uh review the materials. Um, I'm sorry. I just got all these windows open on my computer and I >> And if I could again, council president, just before the council starts discussing this, just to remind you all
to be careful about revealing settlement discussions and be careful about what you're saying about it. >> Yes. Okay. So, the documents that are online and I'll try to I'll I'll I'll try to briefly summarize them. There's the resolution to consider the settlement.
The settlement materials today include the settlement agreement which ties up all of the pieces of this ongoing controversy. And it also includes, as I mentioned, there are four professional
services contracts that are going to be approved as part of this. Are you looking at me like I I'm saying the wrong thing? >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Usually, you're rolling your eyes. >> Okay. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding about that. So, so
there is uh as previously mentioned, there is a a contract for Mr. Smaldo, who is at the moment the interim business administrator, and if this passes, he will then become the business
administrator. Uh there's also a contract for uh Mr. Samero as the new town attorney. He's sitting here with that uh that really good-look beard. Everybody can see that, right? And the glasses, right? Everybody can see that. That did not play a role in me agreeing
to him. We also have a uh uh a contract for the redevelopment council uh which we affectionately refer to as wins. They provide legal uh advice uh to us on our
downtown redevelopment. Uh and then we also have uh Mr. Pastor who is the new uh or will be could be the uh new assistant town attorney. And those are the six
uh different pieces of material that we're discussing now. So we've we've had a motion and uh we're now in discussion mode. I think you said you wanted to talk. So please >> Yes. So uh thank you council president. Um and um thank you to the uh our new
attorneys that are looking to come uh to us after this evening. I didn't know if it would be appropriate or maybe the next meeting that they introduce themselves to the public. I guess that will come the next meeting or tonight. >> Yeah, they're like 12 feet away from the
>> I know they're very close here. That's what I'm tempted to ask. I don't know what's appropriate at this point in time. I'll leave that to you, council president. Okay. Um but at some point in time whether it's at this moment or at the next meeting uh love to introduce yourselves to the public and uh give
them a little background about both both of you um which would be appreciated. We've been operating um without a redevelopment attorney. Uh we've also been playing the revolving uh business administrator game this past year which
has not been fair um especially to Mr. Moraldo. Uh I was remiss earlier. I am in uh fully uh I am uh fully supportive of Mr. Smaldo. I think he's done a great job this year. He was put in a very
awkward situation. I have one comment I missed because I went first and didn't get to chance uh check all my comments. Um but you know, Mr. Smaldo walked into the the library situation with the new library. he was not there for the
initial planning. So all those change orders that he gets accused of that was all um not on him and he keeps getting blamed for that which he should not. And um we were really fortunate when he did
come on board the library probably never would have opened when it did. probably would have been months later, but because of his efforts and because of his experiences, uh we were able to get that building open before the holidays
uh that year. And um again, um always appreciate his service to this community. He gets beat up regularly up here and uh and uh I'm sure he will continue to do so. That's part of the job, unfortunately. left or the right.
>> But I I I want to thank them. I do want to thank them. So, it hasn't been easy. Um, but you know what? As a community, we're going to move forward and uh like I said, this has been a stain on our community, but better days ahead, folks.
And uh we all work together and we all try to appreciate each other and communicate with each other. Um we should be able to get a lot of projects done. We have redevelopment that needs to get done. We have contaminated properties. We have affordable housing
crisis. Um, you know, we have a whole list of of items uh that need to be squared away sooner than later. So, I just want to welcome the new attorneys hopefully in a few minutes and thanks to
the administration and even the mayor. The mayor has it's been a mess. It's has been nothing but a mess. And and I I I really it's been really tough on her. It's been tough on our relationship and um again, we got to move forward. This
is part of it. And and listen, I'm going to say it too. You have different feelings about Mr. Tran, but I'm going to thank him for the years of service that he has given us. Um that have been um he's made a lot of good decisions for us in this community and have fought
some very good fights for us, whether you like me saying that or not, because I always going to give credit when credit's due. And I'm always going to, you know, fight for, you know, when we make mistakes and uh and we have to fix them. But I wish him well, his family
well, and uh I want to thank him. I'm just sorry. This is the way to end uh uh his career. And um but again, we turn a page tonight and uh we got to do what's best for our community. So I appreciate everyone's efforts on that. Thank you,
Council President. I'll be a yes this evening. >> Yeah. Just real quick, I want Yeah, real quick. I want to thank uh our council president uh Joe Koviaak for the work that he's done to get us to where we are today. It has been the one of the most
difficult things that I've ever witnessed. Um he has worked steadfast and very hard night and day. You can see how tired he is today to make >> Well, that was the baseball game.
>> When did you call me after 11? Was it Was it Sunday night? >> He's available 24/7, too. But I I I really want to thank him for all he's done. And Mr. Smoldo, too. I know how difficult it's been for you to be pingponged around like this. I know that as we start working collaboratively
together, it's going to be a whole new world. And I just want to thank our new attorneys and hope that you haven't decided to run. and you realize recognize the challenges that we have, but also the commitment we have to work with you to get things done and to turn
our township around. So, thank you for accepting the challenge. >> Counciloman Ruden, did you have anything? >> I just want to follow up on Yeah, I just want to say welcome to our new attorneys. I'm really looking forward to you being on board
>> and thank you. Thank thank you for sticking it out this evening after you hearing everything that's gone on. >> And I just want to try to address one of the other comments that Councilwoman Ruden made and and she was totally correct in the years that I was on the
council before. I constantly was protesting that stuff was added to the agenda at the last minute and didn't even give the council people an opportunity to understand what was going on. And I felt like it was because it
was so frequent on big issues, it was a tactic, not a coincidence. In this case, both of those things didn't happen. All of us on the council were thoroughly familiar, painfully familiar with the
terms of all of these agreements. And uh what happened with late notice uh was something that I didn't anticipate and uh again, my fault. I should have done it. I'm the council president and that's my authority and I need to be responsible for it. But uh I I'm just
not sure what else we can do because we couldn't uh we couldn't unwind the water, you know. So um anyway, I I do want to ask uh if you would like to come up and say a few words one at a time, please please Mr. Samero.
>> Well, it's a pleasure meeting everyone. Uh and I certainly appreciate the confidence uh that you have displayed for me. Uh and I promise not to let you down. I look forward to serving the community and working with all parties for the betterment of the township.
Thank you. >> You didn't use the word collaborator or or >> I was thinking about it. Okay. Okay. Worn out a little bit. We're trying to move away from deliberation. So, thank you. Please. My pleasure. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Pastor.
>> Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, it's a pleasure to meet you all. My name is Greg Pastor. I've been practicing law in New Jersey for 33 years. Um, happy to be the second guy, not the first guy, frankly. >> I had one of my first dates with my wife
in Tony Veio's living room with >> So, I I have some some roots uh in West Orange that I'm very proud of. I look forward to working with you all. I have experience in almost every aspect of municipal government. Um, so I I'm sure I can abley assist Mark in whatever he
needs and I'm sure we'll, you know, move right along and ski downhill from here. So, I thank you for the opportunity. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> And I think we are moving to a vote. Does everybody agree? Madam clerk? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um, Councilwoman Castelino,
>> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Yay. Okay. >> See Masletov. >> Yes.
>> That was a that was that's a mitzvah. That's a super mitzvah. >> Okay. We're back on agenda. >> Council President, if I may, real quick, >> Mr. Small, please. >> So, first of all, um you know, I'm I'm very happy that the council and the mayor have come to a resolution. And so
on behalf of the mayor, um I know she's looking forward to moving, you know, to moving the agenda for everyone forward and I look forward working with her um helping move her her mission and her her ideas forward. Um I know we've just
spoke briefly about u some issues that are concerning the community right now. I do want to work move forward working collaborative collaboratively with everybody. Um, and so, and I also want to thank everybody here for the kind words and the confidence in in this vote today. Um, I'm here to serve the
community as I have been for 38 years. Um, and I'm looking forward to working not only the council, but you know, my staff, you know, those staff and um, and I and I appreciate everything that's been done to this point. Um, I also would be remiss in um, not thanking Mr.
Richard Tran. You know, I understand that there's there's hard feelings amongst a lot of others, but um Rich and I uh started many years back when I was the fire chief. Um it was a rocky start for all of us too because we got to get to know each other. Um getting to know Richard the way I got to know him, he
has taught me a lot. Um I respect his knowledge of the law and I respect what he has done and what he thought was in the best interest of the community and despite you know the the people not having seeing eye to eye and I respect that everybody's opinion on that. I just
want to say thank thank you to him too for his his years of service. So I'd be remiss if I didn't say that. So um so I I just want to say thank you to all. We're going to move forward and um hopefully we can do some great work together. Amen. Amen. >> Well said.
>> Well, >> so as everybody knows, I have a hard time staying on the agenda. I had asked Mr. Smaldo and Mr. Diniac to just uh explain a couple of issues uh at some point during the meeting. I know we've
sort of blown past uh liaison reports and and we've also blown past uh public comment, but if if you could, Mr. just give us a brief overview of what happened with the cleanout of of the uh it's the wigwam, isn't it? Or is it
>> the the branch of the roadway? The wigwam is that way. >> Okay. Yeah. So So what happened was that um during the summer um and probably previous to that, I don't know the exact date, we received uh complaints from uh residents and and neighboring uh
communities and our own about the the overgrowth of of vegetation. Uh, Director Reynolds um was the um uh was dispatched to go out there and take a look. Um not only that, we had a meeting at the same time with Lwell and Park
because we have a contract with them that we have to take care of their culverts and their their their waterways as well. Um so we we uh contracted with a vendor who provided us prices. Um they went out recently um I guess was around the time of the last council meeting,
which I apologize it wasn't here. Um and they cleaned out the uh um the um our vendor cleaned out the vegetation um in the area that needed to be cleaned. Uh Director Kabalo and I actually visited there last Friday along that same area.
We noticed that there's still some other vegetation. I understand Mr. Gowski or you know the vendor is looking and we're also going to speak to our DPW about cleaning some of the other vegetation. Now, there are other concerns that we we looked at, the director and I, is that
that was a man-made um culvert at one point to direct the river. Um it it appears like it may be deteriorating. Um we don't know because there's a lot of debris and settlement. The only way we would do that is if we get somebody in there with heavy equipment to to really
clean it out. Um that's going to require a lot more. That's going to require a lot of capital expenditure. that's going to require um permits from the DP because we simply can't remove equipment in a in a waterway now by placing uh
mechanical equipment such as anything that's generated with either through gas or diesel in a waterway now without their permit because it has to be um extremely supervised because we don't want to contaminate the waterways. So um so while we can do some surface brush
cleaning um and we look to do some more of that um we also have to explore the options of doing some um um heavy duty equipment cleaning which a majority of that river is um is in our township but
a good part of it also borders our neighboring community and perhaps maybe we can speak to them about doing a collaborative effort and and seeking some money. So we're in the process of discussing that with them as well. So um so we do have some work ahead of us. I will tell you that uh Director Reynolds
has um stated many times um the overgrowth of brush doesn't always precipitate the uh the backup while things can get lock jam and we can clean it out. There are actually areas some too, some of the areas director Kabala pointed out to me that belong to the county and every time that that we've
had an issue with those those particular areas, she'll make a phone call and they come out and clean for us. So, so we it's it's going to be a constant look and we we're you know of of paying attention, but it's also going to be some could be an expense for us that you
know and we we are all very cognizant of our debt and our and our capital requests. So, um, we'll see what that becomes as far as a priority, but that's really basically what I have for you. >> Great. Thank you. And, and just to
reference back at the last meeting, I I had had conversations with Mr. Seraldo for a couple of months about uh, responding to Mr. Ror's concerns and I misunderstood. I thought there was just no way we could do any of that cleaning without a a permit from the Department
of uh, Environmental Protection, the State Department. And uh and obviously you can do that without a permit. Uh but to get to the real gist, >> yeah, rakes, rakes and and and shovels and things don't require a permit, but once we introduce anything with any kind
of car hydrocarbon fuel in it, that becomes a problem. >> Yeah. So, thank you. And Mr. Ziniac, I I know you've talked about this ad nauseium during probably half of the budget workshops, but there's a great focus and concern among a lot of
residents about the future of the uh sewer fee and there's going to be a significant change I improvement next year, but perhaps we can talk about it again so people pick it up. >> Sure. Just what is coming up next year, please? >> Is this microphone loud enough?
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um, so the current sewer fee model is based off of the number of bedrooms. Uh, and our definition of a bedroom is is a little bit different than, you know, what we would normally consider a bedroom, but um, it's the number of
bedrooms times a rate is what your your sewer uh, user fee is per year. Um the contemplative change is that we would go based on water usage and it's been talked about for years and the issue has
always been taking American water data and and h marrying it up to our existing tax system to be able to then bill based on some sort of conversion. So you would say it's a fairer, more equitable model
in that the retired person who lives alone theoretically would use less water than their neighbor who is a family of five. So their their sewer charge would be less than than the family of five.
That's the model that we're looking to move to. Obviously, we would need to do our own rate study to determine um what sort of, you know, um rate we're going to apply to the the water usage so
that we can come up with uh you know, the right amount of revenue that we're going to need for the for the year. And then we'd have to pass some new ordinances establishing those new rates. >> Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman. >> Yeah. So, we've been talking about this
for what, two since we passed it when we first I think two years ago. >> Councilwoman Scarp and I were the only ones on the on the council at the time. We thought we're going to flip it the following year and of course residents are frustrated because we hadn't.
>> Um, where are we at with American Water? Because they needed every do they still need everybody's account number in the township or they can't like have they figured out if we are we changing the system? are are they able to pull it by lot and block numbers like they do with
other towns? >> So, it that data is still going to be helpful when we transition to Edmonds. Um, but the the company Edmonds Govve that we're working with to switch over um our our tax and utility billing
systems has done the work before with American Water and they've assured me that, you know, they understand the process. they can take the data and and and transfer it based on our existing block and lot system. >> Okay. >> Um but you know we'll still collect the
data and if it's useful in the conversion we have it. If not >> you know that's okay >> because so so just so folks know like this is a work in progress that is being worked on. It's but we need the computer
new system in place which will be what again sometime in 2026. Correct. >> Yeah. It's it's it's the computer system but it's also we have to figure out you know what the the billing rate is going to be. Um you know because we have an
established per unit rate um but we have to figure out you know how we're going to compute that sewer charge based on the usage. So, um, we still need to do that work and obviously pass ordinances to change the billing and everything.
Um, so there's there's more to it than just switching over to Edmonds. >> But just for a timeline for the community, we're talking about a a year from now, less than a year now. >> The the most aggressive timeline would be to have this ready for the 2026 sewer user bill.
>> Okay. So, that's the goal. 206 >> 100% the goal. >> Yeah. Okay. I just want the public to know that because there's a misconception out there that someone could press a magic button and we could just change this. Now, this is a pro a pro process that we've been working on for the past couple years and we're
almost to the finish line. >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, not a terrible amount of work has been done in the last couple years for this. This year will be the real hard work >> with this new system. not only the new system, but like I
said, figuring out what the appropriate rate structure is going to be so that we're generating enough fees to support, perfectly honest, this supports the current fund budget. So, this is an offset to taxation. Um, possibly in the
future, this becomes the revenue generator for a separate sewer utility. and and in speaking with the engineer, um you know, we obviously have a tremendous need for sewer infrastructure improvements and pump stations and all
that sort of stuff. This could be what ends up paying for all those improvements, separating it out from uh from the current fund. But that's that's for the future. Um, but again, the priorities for the remainder of this
year and 2026 is obviously getting Edmonds up and running, doing the rate study to figure out what the appropriate rate is, having the council pass ordinances, establishing those new rates, and then taking that American Water data and converting it into a a
bill that we can then send out to the residents. So, >> thank thank you, Mr. >> Thank you, Mr. Tiniac. >> Yes, please. So you're this this uh water data information is coming from water that is going directly into our sewer system.
>> No correct. >> No, this is the the data that we would use would be the metered water American water data. So water that's going >> into the residence or you know whatever the the metered connection is
>> basically consumption. >> Yeah. The presumption is that if the water is going in that it's then going back out into the sanitary sewer system. Obviously there, you know, you have people that fill their pools in the
summertime. You have sprinkler systems. So, um, you know, many municipalities have adjustments for those sorts of things. So, we'd have to look at that. Um, so yeah, it's not just a
>> how easy adjustment for lawn sprinklers. >> So it depends on like when you use your American like the base line for your American water data like are you going to use the the usage from the fall? Are you going to blend the usage from certain
seasons so that you know you you account for the low and the high periods? there's there's different ways of of converting that American water data because again we're we're going to use the same annual billing. So we're going
to have to pick American water. It's going to be in the past to use to to generate that bill. Um so we have to take those things into consideration. Sprinkler systems, filling pools. Um and the good thing is is that we
wouldn't be the first community to do this. So we have uh plenty of communities around us that have done this for years that we can take ideas from. >> Super. Thank you. Um as I said, I I'm sort of a bedawin when it comes to the
agenda. There's this very nice resident. I don't know that she's a resident, but she's a businesswoman. She came up, said some nice things to us. She's sitting over there waiting for us to address 235-25. >> If I could just bring that up. Yeah. Go ahead. >> For a vote. >> Mhm.
>> Um, we can better go home. >> Well, nobody's pulling it. Wouldn't be on consent. >> Well, that's what I've said. I'm just wandering around trying to help people. Yes, Mr. Dinac. C, >> Council President, since we are talking about the agenda. Um, I have to pull two
resolutions. >> Um, I'll give you the numbers and then I will give you the explanation why. So I would like to not I would like to we are forced to pull resolution 228-25 adoption of budget amendment number one
and resolution 229-25 adoption of the 2025 municipal budget. So the uh division of local government services their budget reviewer for the township of West Orange sent his final um information request to me yesterday
at around 10:30 in the morning. I've been responding to all those requests throughout yesterday and and throughout today. Uh I don't have permission yet from DLGS to adopt. Hopefully I get it tomorrow or the next day and we will have a special meeting just to to move
these two resolutions. I cannot adopt without Allen's permission. >> Okay. And you're just like waving the red cape in front of the bull to see if we can get the Division of Local Services to find us more for missing our deadlines?
>> No, I don't I don't The finding is is is off the table for this. This is their budget review where they send questions and I provide analysis and documents and and respond to questions. >> Okay. Councilwoman, >> so was it because we gave them so many
amendments and and that that made them like nuts or >> No, it's it's it's it's not that um you know what, honestly, when they have more time to review um because we're not in peak budget season, you get way more comments. That that's just the nature of
it. When when you submit in peak budget season, there's just too many for them to process and you typically get >> less questions. So motivated. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So, you know, I obviously once I get the
go-ahad from from DLGS, I will forward that to Madame Clerk and we can get a special meeting on it. Sounds good. >> And and and Mr. Fagan, I know brought up the uh the grace period. When we um have the bills
in hand and we know what that postmark date is, we'll obviously calculate out 25 days because they have to be on the street 25 days and we will update the public on that the grace period extension, >> right? >> Fourth quarter property tax bills, >> right? So, you know, we're looking at
December, the grace period. >> So, >> okay. I I was just going to suggest uh that we consider um >> 235 >> 235 and then whatever whatever uh Miss Carbalo is here still for uh if you agree and then we'll go back to
whatever's left. Yes. >> One quick question for Mr. Zatinia. I'm sorry. >> Yes. >> So if we're if we're extending it to December, >> are we okay paying our bills? I mean obviously we don't we're not, you know,
receiving money in November. we're we're okay. >> Yeah. So, what is probably going to happen once we initiate the bills is that we get the majority of our money from Core Logic. So, Core Logic is a company that
compiles all of the mortgage payments >> from, you know, the many different banks and financial institutions that lend money out. So, the majority of our residents have mortgages and the banks will Core Logic is going to release the funds immediately um because they've
been sitting on them. Um so, we'll get that and we'll get Loretta immediately and then we'll start getting money from the taxpayers pretty quickly. Uh because, you know, people are are itching to pay. Um, most of the people that pay their taxes are older adults
and you know this is something that they're not used to. They want to pay by November 1st. So they they they will pay us quickly. So we will be okay. We have sufficient cash flow to get through um the next few months from a current fund standpoint.
>> Will we be on track to deliver the budget on January 15th? >> That's what we've committed to. we will give you the council um the administration's recommended budget for January 15th, but we're going to talk because now that we've settled things,
you know, we're going to we're going to be speaking about this, you know, much more in advance. So, what you get on January 15th will not be a surprise to you. I can assure you of that. Um, yes. But my goal is to be one of the first
communities in Essex County to adopt the budget. >> Um, >> and and we've internally started the the process. My team is working on the salary and wage requirements for 2026. And then they'll be work they'll send
that to the directors to get their input on you know promotions um if there's a need for uh vacant um positions um do we have any retirements uh so you know we've already started that 2026
process with them. >> Thank you. So, uh, are we agreed? We'll we'll address, uh, the people who are still here and then we'll move on to the regular agendas. That sound good? >> Sure. >> Okay. I'm >> sorry, Council President, one second.
Um, Madame Clerk, do we have to do any take any action with those two resolutions that I mentioned? Do they have to formally remove them from the agenda or >> We don't normally do that. I mean, that would be a legal question. >> Mr. Burke, if you wanted to uh you could
vote to table them, but like we went over in the last in the last meeting, you'd have to vote immediately with no discussion on that. If you wanted to postpone them to a specific date, you could make that motion as well. Um either either option >> to be a motion at all. >> Um I don't think so
>> because we've never done that before. >> Yeah, that's not been the way that we've done it. I just wondered with the consent agenda. I didn't want them to be sort of like mistakenly. >> No, I have a big I pull out my notes. >> So, >> okay. So, we'll save that. Let Let's
move on to 235. >> Yes. 235. Resolution granting Dogwood Green dispensary a renewal of its local license to operate a cannabis retail business within the township of West Orange for 2025. Is there a motion to approve? >> So moved.
>> Second. Okay. >> Any discussion? >> This is the revised. Correct. Yeah, the revised. >> This is without the drive-thru, >> correct? Without the curbside pickup. No. Yeah.
>> The police department did not approve that. >> Correct. >> So, and I just want to I just wanted to explain too um because I was on the task force with the chief and that was something that we took a lot of uh time on to discuss with security and whatnot.
And um so I I I wouldn't wouldn't support, you know, unfortunately for for your sake. I feel bad about that with the drive-thru, but you know, that was the decision we made even bringing cannabis to the community. So, um with the
curbside and the well, the drive-thru. Yeah. >> Yeah, too. Both. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah. I just wanted to make sure that my colleagues were aware and they saw the revised and the letter from the chief. >> Yeah. >> But you're I support your approval and
wish you >> great success this year. >> Anything else? I just want to say I hope that we can revisit that at some point down the road because um there are cannabis dispensaries that have drive-throughs throughout the country and if we can accommodate this and they
already have a window I would like to see that in the future. the councilwoman it again we had a process and the entities that opened it wouldn't be fair to them as well because they didn't have that opportunity and they have locations
where they can't provide that access. So I mean there was a whole task force there's people on there it you know and these were people that supportive of bringing cannabis to the township. Um, so I I appreciate that, but to open
that again, I think it's just we have so many other things we need to get done. So >> we're not going to solve this tonight. No. >> In the near future, we'll see. >> Yeah. >> Where this leads. Is that agreed? Councilwoman Ruden? >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Is there any further discussion?
>> No. >> Oh, >> Madame Clerk. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. Thank you. >> Congratulations, >> Miss Carvalo. What are you here for?
>> She's been asking herself that for years. >> I think so openly and honestly. No, no, no, no. Professionally. >> So, we're looking >> resolution >> 224. I think you're here for that. thing.
>> You have anything to do with Santa teasing? >> 241, >> 224, and 241 are the resolutions. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then 294125 and 294325
uh on second and final reading. >> Oh, I think >> 2943. >> What was Yes. >> Oh, let's see now. Okay. >> 2941. >> 2943. >> 2941 and 2943. Those are both directoral. >> Okay. We're going.
>> Okay. So, with the council's leave, we can consider uh resolution 224-25. >> I know we've talked about this quite a bit already today. >> I'm good with it. And this is this is a motion to release the performance bond
for um Trojan Swords. And again, we talked a lot about this during public comment. I don't know. Is there any further discussion that we need? >> Are we doing a vote on that? >> Yeah, I think we'll just I mean, I'll I'll entertain a motion or count. Uh
Madam Clerk will entertain a motion. >> Is there a motion to approve 224-25? >> Uh so moved. Thank you. Is there a second? No second. The motion fails. >> There's actually language for that, >> but I don't remember off the top of my
head, but it will be in the minutes. >> Okay. >> Well, let me ask you a question. So, >> we're having a special meeting in a couple days. Can the attorney look at 224? >> So, they're not here now.
>> No, not they're not here now. >> But can we have and then maybe my colleagues will feel comfortable. >> Yeah. >> Get another motion failed. So, we can It didn't get didn't get a second. So we can we'll just have to pull it put it back up.
>> Right. >> Can you pull it back up and give it to Mr. Samar and >> Samera or something? >> S M E R A L D O S E M E R A R O. Let's get that straight.
>> Yeah. But you want that on the special meeting agenda. >> Well, we can't just not We got to move it. I mean, I was hesitant because I'm still >> questions. >> Well, I I mean, I just And listen, it
has nothing to do with our director. I think she's did an outstanding job with her investigation and um I just I think I think we just be better to get another opinion from the attorney.
>> Okay. So, if we can do that, well, I have to notice it. Well, I guess I we can ask when I'm about to notice whatever date we decide. >> Well, why don't you have the it's so I'm going to request that the um attorney
gives give us an opinion on it and then poll my colleagues and we have that special meeting. Let's get on the special meeting. >> Would that make you two feel comfortable? >> Yeah. Yeah, I would. Listen,
you're you're gonna you wanted a new attorney. Yes. You're going to have an opinion and and when a new attorney comes, you're going to have to be respectful of the the opinions from the new attorney. >> Yeah. This is something we really need. So, we'll >> So, will you send that to them?
>> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> Yep. >> Next is 241-25. Resolution authorizing an emergency repair of sanitary sanitary sewer main at Northfield Avenue near Valley Road to the Shawer Group in the amount of $198,269.65.
Is there a motion to approve? >> I'll make a motion. >> A second. >> Okay, >> we do have a question. >> Go ahead. >> So again, I understand all this and I'm supportive of it. Um, my question is I I
know again what is it going to take? I I know you had talked about inspection of this whole town at one point many moons ago uh a year or so ago. You know, we're going to have these things pop up.
I mean any other way to be proactive unless we spend money and get a study done or >> if I could before you answer just please stay focused and brief because just focus on what we can accomplish tonight.
>> If it's in the future we'll we'll have to deal with it at sometime in the future but just please >> right now I don't see how much really we can do. Um, I don't think we have the staff to do the CTV inspections that are required in order for us to actually figure out
>> the conditions of the sanitary and the storm sewer systems. It is definitely something that it will have to be I would say budget in the very near future if you really want to get I will say ahead of this emergency repairs
and and that's I wanted her to say that because I I knew that was going to be the answer and for the sake of my colleagues and the public because these situations come up because again we're in order to prevent them there's only one way and it's it's and even even then
in that case it may may not uh always work. >> That's correct. >> So, but um I I'll be supportive of this. We just have old sewers in the township and unless we do that study and try to get it that information advance. We're
kind of beholden to having these emergency situations. Director, I'm going to break the rule I just asked you to follow, which is can you do a costbenefit analysis of whether and what the amount of savings
might be if we can do the the mapping that you've already discussed previously and how that might apply uh to the future to reduce the amount of the emergency repairs. >> That's will be very difficult for me to do. Okay.
>> Because right now I don't have I don't have really like an actual number of length of pipe for the sanitary or the storm sewers for that matter. Nor do I have the number of those sewers that I
know for sure that need to be replaced. >> Okay, >> let's put it this way. We have nothing. I I just >> Thank you for your Andre. >> Yes. I >> like I have said in the past, I work in the dark.
>> Yes. And I I think we need to long-term fix that. I think we need to have that because I think over time it will save us money. If we can just if we can just avoid this this here that saves us $200,000. >> Absolutely. I mean, it's no different when I find out or I'm told that, you
know, there is a belly on the line. Okay. What I have done is like I will put it like in the recent MA2024 DOT job I put the sanitary sewer replacement in there so that you know ahead before actually became an emergency and thankfully it
hasn't been an emergency yet. We just awarded the contract so hopefully we'll get that work done this winter and then after that we will do the milling and the paving and everything else that you know will make everybody happy. But that's the way to do it. If I don't know that information ahead of time it's very
difficult for me to prepare. So, I have no option but to do what I got to do when I receive a phone call and a picture with a hole. >> I have two questions. >> Sure. Go ahead. >> Um, are you working with the mayor to identify
um grants that could be applied for this exactly this type of service? Because I see water grants all the time online. >> I'm always looking for grants. I even sign up to the D. I get all those emails. Um, even our
grant writer also bring grants to us. Unfortunately, I would say for this type of mapping and stuff, uh, there are not that many grants out there, not even D. I mean, they're requiring every tier A and even the tier B um, municipalities
now to map their storm sewers and they're not giving them any money. So, the only grants that they offer, we actually got a $10,000 grant, which I'm going to be honest with you, is nothing. Mhm. >> When you know how much it's going to
cost just to do this work >> because it's a lot of work, especially in a town as large as West Orange. >> Is this a a piece of equipment that you need to buy? >> Uh, this is more than just a piece of equipment.
>> Would I be able to do it if I had the equipment and the staff? >> The answer is yes. >> Okay. >> But I don't have it. I don't have the equipment. I don't have the staff. And it's even difficult right now even to hire anybody. It seems like nobody wants to work.
>> I got a question in the public. >> Yes. Question. >> I've seen like estimates. I don't remember exactly where in my readings. >> Yeah. I've seen like estimates of like $50 million. Is that accurate? >> $50 million estimate on what exactly?
like to for to fix the sore system like what would it will it cost us if we had unlimited financial resources and we wanted back to you one minute >> you got 200 200 miles of road okay
let's say a mile would be about probably will be that or more because think about it for every road that you going to go replace your entire sanitary sewer, you're basically doing a full reconstruction, not to mention the depths. Um, the depths also play a a
factor in the pricing. >> So, yeah, might be that if not more. >> It's very expensive. We're talking about probably like $195 a foot. And the deeper the sanitary sewer is, the more money it's going to cost you.
>> Okay. >> So, figure one mile is 5,280 ft. Take that times 200. That's a lot of linear feet. Times 195. >> Anything else? >> No.
>> Madame Clerk. >> Thank you. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scar. Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you. >> Did we want to move on to the ordinances? >> If that what the council's pleasure is.
>> Yes. Okay. Ordinance 294125, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-32.2, restricted parking zones of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. >> This is Go ahead.
>> Shall I? Uh, this is the time for the public hearing for ordinance. >> Oh, no. We have to do a motion first. >> Yeah. Is there a motion? Wait, I didn't even say what we were doing yet. >> Is there getting a little carried away? That's a big
>> very enthusiastic. Um, is there a motion to uh introduce on second and final reading? >> Make a motion to introduce. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> Um, Councilwoman Castleino. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. >> Councilwoman Scar. Yes. Council President Kovia. >> Yes.
>> This is now this is the time for the public hearing on ordinance 2941-25. Anyone who'd like to speak, please raise your hand. After you're recognized, you can come to the deis to the podium, excuse me, and uh have up to five minutes to comment on this ordinance and
this ordinance only. Would anyone like to speak? Please raise your hand. Seeing none, I close public hearing. And now we move to discussion. Is there any further discussion on this? >> I have something. I just want to see something to ask your question. I'm
looking at the address. Yeah. So, I I know we went over this last time um and we had a long conversations about um the handicap parking spots and how people apply
and whatnot. Okay, this one's in a different spot. Just on Mitchell Street. I mean, I've noticed like there's been like six of them just alone on Mitchell Street. This one is a little I'm trying to see on the map.
Sorry. Just bear with me one second, please. Okay, so this is a little lower. I Again, these make me nervous. I know there's somewhat I know police department vets these, but I mean this is like the sixth one on this on one
street. Yeah. So, I just want to bring that to everybody's attention that I hope we're watching them and that um and I'm going to bring this to you, our our new BA, uh with the police department. I mean, if they're if they
don't have that handicap uh plate or sticker, they need to get ticketed if they're in these spots. >> I can assure you that the police administration is all in favor of enforcement. They said they they'll take care of it. >> Okay. our recent conversations and with
them and everything else, they said if somebody needs they'll summon them. I I see some of the emails that we're It's not just in Rollinsson, but other areas where we've had illegally parked cars. Our traffic bureau is going out marking cars, they're towing cars, and they're issuing summones. So, that's happening
on a fairly steady basis. >> But I told you la last last meeting I saw motorcycle in in one like that's just insane. But but I just want to bring to your attention again. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes when these people when somebody parks in a
spot illegally or improperly, um if the officer doesn't see it right away and then they move out, they probably will not get a summon. It's just going to happen. >> Yeah. >> But if it's there for a long period of time, then the the patrols should address it. >> The other thing is that if somebody has
a valid concern, they just need to call the the police desk and ask for a patrol car to be dispatched. They'll respond. I can assure you that that the ad police administration will tell their officers that they have to go out and respond accordingly. That's a that's a given and
a prompts. >> Question. >> Sure. Go ahead. >> Um is this checked every year? >> No. Typically, um the residents will actually come and tell us that they're moving or that, you know, they're no longer located there or typically like
somebody in the neighborhood like a neighbor will call us and then we will have the police department actually go check for us. >> And so far the few times that somebody have come and said that they're not using it, then we find out that indeed they are using it. Not necessarily for
them, but for like a family member who is handicapped. >> Is the criteria for handicapped permanently handicapped? Because sometimes people are temporarily >> handicapped. >> We get the um how to say this, their
handicap and everything from their doctor's note and as well as whatever they get from the DMV that they're entitled to have a handicap spot. I would think permanent. >> I would think that would be permanent.
>> I don't think a doctor issues a temporary handicap permit. >> Yes, they do. >> I don't know. >> Can how how can we are we allowed to mandate it where they have to come
reapply on a yearly basis? That is definitely something that was discussed with the police department. Um if I would just say probably about a month ago when we sat down with the uh software vendor which is the same software vendor for the permits in which we would like to charge for the handicap
permit. We would like them to register on a yearly basis. Yeah. And that way like you know >> we will have more of a >> database and control of like you know how many are being issued each year as well as you know how many are actually keep using it.
>> I think I think we have to because I'm going to be honest with you I I think people scam them. I I had too many neighbors I talked to. Um, and you hate not like we're in a position where we sit here and you know, you don't want to not give it
to a person, but at the same token, I mean, this is I I I've seen it. I've seen too many times there's cars that don't have handicap plates on and and there's one there's like four of them in a row on Mitchell Street. Like, they're all there and I heard horror stories. So
I think we need to move in that direction. So again, I I'll defer also to our business administrator. There has to be a tough conversation on this if my colleagues are agree >> in favor of it to do it on a yearly basis because >> I agree with that. I I think we have to,
you know, we've had these tough parking issues that we heard this evening and these are all the streets around there >> and um we have to it's a way to help us monitor it as well. You know, >> I do believe that that software I was
mentioning earlier has a component as to >> the expiration date of of the permits whether something with the ordinance may be something different. I don't know if that could be incorporated, but I'll ask them. >> Yes, it does. It allows you to put the ordinances. It does. Actually, that was
one of the questions that I asked when I was in the in the presentation. >> I knew that I was testing you. >> Really? >> Good. >> Yeah. If we can move to a system, I think that would help. >> So, that would that would definitely help us out with the >> Oh, yeah.
Yep. Yep. Yeah. One of the reasons that we when we looked at one of the reason why we looked at that was not just if we can do that particular component with the handicap but all the other ordinances but making sure that we have permits out there. So >> yeah. >> So and our officers will be able to see
it because of of the technology. >> Yeah. Which is great. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> We done madam clerk. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Oh. Well, is there a motion to approve on second and final reading? >> Yes. I'll make the motion to
>> a second. >> Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarf, Council President Kovia, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> 2943-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing
chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-29.1, speed limits in general, 7-30, midblock crosswalks, and 7-10.2 two stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets on certain days of the revised general ordinances of the
township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? >> Still moved. Second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Spa. Council President Kovia.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Public hearing. Now is the time for the public hearing on ordinance 2943-25. Anyone who would like to speak on this ordinance and this ordinance only, please raise your hand. Recognized by the chair, you come up to the podium and
speak for five minutes on this subject only. Is there anyone who'd like to speak? Seeing none, I close the public hearing. And now we need a motion to >> discussion. Yeah, discussion. Um >> yeah really help >> thank you for doing this.
>> No problem. >> Um I would like to know if there will be continued enforcement as this transitions and when when do you expect the transition to take place? I know you have to order signs >> to answer your question. So I placed the
order of the signs actually yesterday. >> Yay. >> It cost $2,000 and I ended up using capital monies in order to be able to get the signs because I don't have anything on my operating account. >> Okay. uh hope that the signs are in our office
hopefully by the before or prior to the 20 days when the ordinance is effective >> so that we could you know change the signs. Now in terms of the um enforcement that would be the police. >> Okay. So, can can I ask that you alert
the police um to be on at Redwood School, especially during the first month when this is all transitioning? >> We'll let the the police administration know. >> Okay. >> We have to we have to forward them
anyway once this is we'll we'll uh forward this ordinance to them >> because it's a big it's a big change for the the parents. >> You can send that to them. Thank you, >> Councilman. >> So, I I'll also reach out because I'm
leazison with the board of education to um to Superintendent Moore because they'll have to have Miss uh Principal Jackson to um she's got to educate the parents. So, >> done. >> Yeah, she did already.
>> No, not the parents. They they've prepared a flyer and they will be sending it out, but I want you to know the date. Well, the school has to prepare the flyer. Yes. >> Yeah. Not the parents. >> Okay. School. >> We will go out as soon as closer like in 20 days.
>> I mean, one thing that I have done in the past is like once the ordinance is signed, Miss Carl will send me the ordinance and then I will give it either to the principal or typically um Mr. Hayden Moore and then they take it from there and they um give a copy of it actually to the parents.
>> Superintendent has to approve. So, go out like that. Everybody's informed that it's coming. >> Yeah. Just so you know, the process is with the board of education. >> He's got to prove it. >> Anything else?
>> And Madam Clerk, >> is there a motion to approve 2943-25 on second and final reading? >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Councilwoman Karpa, Council President Koviaak. >> Yes,
>> the motion carries. >> Thank you. And now back to the agenda. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Good night. >> Thank you. >> Too late and 30. >> Okay. So, the consent agenda, approval of minutes of previous meeting, special meeting on October 6th, 2025 and public
meeting October 16th, 2025. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Thank you. Report of township officers, none. Reading of petitions and communication communications and bids armed and unarmed security officers for municipal court security
that >> thank you bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? Yes. Um just hold on. Um two bills I just want to talk about um and maybe pull it.
It depends upon how my council colleagues feel about this. 189413. Do you need any more numbers than that? >> No, I just need to know where >> it's police overtime. It was $50,000.
Um, we were told from the administration that from this amount, almost 12% of this bill went to overtime that was paid to um provide police and public works um
presence at the WO sock event at Rock Spring. Um, it is also my understanding that an additional $20,000 was lost from the vendor that day in order to for the township to provide this our Rockspring
um the usage of Rockspring for um WOSAC which is the West Orange um suicide something committee. Um, and I would like to have a discussion about that with my council colleagues about whether
or not that is a fair use of our police and our taxpayers money. Yes, I could jump in. So, so I'll share my colleagues. I had asked Okay, so here's the issue with this with
using this facility. We are under contract with Rockspring or with Keer and with that we receive the um the township which obviously uh
controlled by the mayor could give four discounts or use of Rock Spring for the township um approved events. So
the prior practice has always been where uh an applicant comes in and then the administration approves it. This event has been an issue through the years because
it's a walk that is lovely. I've been, you know, I've been to it. The cause is is a good cause, but we shut down the golf course that makes revenue for us and the vendor uh in the afternoon
on busy golf days. And I did not realize that overtime for the police and fire was almost $7,000 with the public works uh overtime as well, which is which is a lot. We have other venues
uh in the township that have paved walkways like uh uh Ridgeway Park which is a lovely park. I went to >> Susan Borg >> Susan Borg the Susan Borg park >> which was actually we mentioned it to we didn't have liaison appointments but
that was a beautiful uh event uh last last Sunday council president was there and honoring honoring uh uh our former planner and uh Mr. Smaldo attended really nice event and um and just just
real quick on on that on that point with her with all that she did for our township and honoring her and change the name of the park was very appropriate and and then we have Colgate Park and Okata Park is is structured to have a big big walk. Um so again that that's
mayor's prerogative but year after year this has cost the township and we have to be mindful. I know there's other events and I know Mr. Moralto what he's going to say but um but Councilwoman it was police and overtime that wasn't
authorized and we have to pay it. I mean we cannot pay this bill um because it was authorized. The other events that are held there at Rock Spring are golf tournaments that um people pay um they
get a discount and you know the the vendor is still making money on the um the uh the golf the golf events that are there. So again, I just wish administration would be have a little
more structure in place when it comes to the use of our facilities. I know Mr. Samaldo is working on putting a policy together. I think it's important. We we love to do town events, but you know,
and it and it opens up a can of worms. There's a lot of different functions that once we really look at police overtime for all of them. Um it it's a lot and we have to put something in place because we we saw how how much the
um overtime is and I'm talking listen we have downtown events and I know that well and there's sometimes there's some events that the public relations commission wants to host uh downtown also additional events and I I'm the first one to say no because of the
overtime for you know police and fire and uh public work. So, I'll let uh administration answer if they choose to. >> Can I also rebut what? Rebut this. The the the organizations that you're mentioning are township commission
committees and and that is very different than giving this type of support to a personal charity, which whether whether a good charity or not, it is not a township charity. And on top
of using our police force at no charge and our public works, it is also costing the town $20,000 to have the golf course closed from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. So, I would like to request that the um
person who was in charge of this charity pay back the township. >> This is not money that the township residents or taxpayers should be paying. And also I was told that there was going to be a contribution to Rockspring. At
least it should cover this expense. And by the way, this has been going on year after year after year. Last year was $8,000. The year before it was 8,000. There's been about $40,000 that this township has laid out to support
one woman's personal charity. And there's no exposure that we know of of how much money was raised during that event. >> No. >> When other charities have events, they tell us what they've raised. So, I would
request that this that this be held and that the the head of the charity be um requested to pay back the township for this. This is enough is enough. >> Can I go? >> Do you want to? >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> I would I would agree. This is a serious
misuse and mismanagement of taxpayer dollars and we ought to be ashamed of oursel. >> Is that it? >> Mr. Smaldo, do you want to >> So, Councilwoman Castelino is correct. The mayor has at her disposal because it's
it's in the contract that we have four events um at the Rock Spring annually. um in this particular event. It was chosen at the time um to to support this event. I the mayor um I think feels
compelled to support that particular charity. Um we were told that we were going to get receive a donation. We will follow up on that. Um as regards to this is not the only charity event that we support in the township. Um, some of these things are for communities and and
this suicide prevention is a is a community of people who um think it's important, but there's other charities. Um, and I won't name them because, you know, I don't want to put it into that that particular category, but we support a lot of other events in that fashion.
Um, I've heard this from the council loud and clear. I've had particular conversations with several of you about this. Um, and what happened has happened. It was done. Um we we know that next year this event will not be scheduled at the Rock Spring Golf Course. The mayor can commit to that.
It's not going to happen. Um and that um we are we're also exploring the fact that if it is the the wish of the council and and and also Mr. Mr. Tatiniac and I have a have had a conversation too that there is value to
um our staff and what what they do. So, we're looking to put together some kind of fee structure for public events and that's going to be a decision for the council to make and uh we're looking to overhaul our public events. It did the quite honestly the public event
application started probably about 3 or four years ago and we tried to do stuff with quantifying and we it appeared we got away from that for a little while for whatever reasons it was. Um, but we're I have um my staff looking at it and we're we're asking our staff to provide us what the costs are so we know
what it is. Um, and we're also going to look at what is the value of the event. You know, we have we have events coming up this week that are going to cost us money that are community events, you know, and do we want to charge this event that's been happening for 15 years? It's a public event and it's not
a private charity, but it's a community event. So, so the value of our community and what we want to do, that's what we have to look at the challenges and I'm not I'm not going to debate what the different events are and stuff like that. I'm just stating the facts and we're going to quantify it and then
we're going to present it to you for a decision and if that's what the council wishes to do then that's what we'll do. >> Okay. >> I know you don't want to get into a long conversation about this so I'll keep this short. Um, but here here's the bigger issue with looking at all these events and when and when you do them and
with this one that council woman brought up. So, I have I have to touch on it because I had to make we had to make a decision at downtown to cut uh and I I know people were upset with us with the mayor's 5k race. You know, we shut down Main Street. It was a great walk.
Especially the last walk we did was in honor of uh Jack Sars when with ALS, but it just did not produce the turnout. And again, like this the amount of personnel it takes to put on some of these events.
Um you have to track them. With this event, it's been around for a while. it does not produce enough participants to warrant I mean you have like 12 uh staff members there and and so again I don't know who determines that u maybe
you didn't need that many um well closing on the golf course is just just insane on a good day but um I agree >> again there has to be the process has to be really really looked at and I know you are so I'm just I just wanted to add
that to you, give that information to you because it it we felt bad with the downtown not being able to do but for the for the amount of the turnout of people who come and it's a shame after co a lot of these races who goes online
and and then there's other races the same day that you know you just don't get the numbers but you need like thousands of people to really really um justify having event of this of this nature with any events that we do of
that magnitude to have all that staffing there >> and that I'll be done with my comments. Just wanted to share that. >> I want to add one more thing. It is one thing for the mayor to determine that of her four days she would like to donate the Rock Spring um facility for one day
to a charity that she prefers. It is another thing for the mayor to determine that in along along with this donation, you will get our police staff and our public works. Yeah. >> That is where the line is crossed. >> Yeah.
>> And that is what needs to be paid back to the taxpayers. >> This year alone, because the last years have already passed, but this year it has come to our attention. We're now $40,000 in the hole of taxpayer money
for for a somebody's individual personal charity and using the facility must be separated out from the services that are provided by our township employees. Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't ever want to see anything like this happen again. It's outrageous.
So >> guys, again I'll remind you you have to be recognized by the chair so we can keep some order and everybody can track. Okay. So just just raise your hand, please. Thank you. Is there anything else to discuss? Can we move on?
>> No. Yeah. >> What's your other bill, Councilwoman? >> Um, that's it. Mr. Trunk is gone. I don't need to mention that he charged another $15,000 in the past two weeks. >> Oh, I do want to know. Um, we got we got
uh 189044 SHA international assisted um living uh listening devices. I just want to know is that for the chambers here >> and how will how will our audience members know that they can make use of
it? Will there be a sign at the door? >> So, there are two signs outside. So which the beauty of this system now it's not inside they're outside both doors outside. The beauty of this system is that we actually have four devices here which at first I was like four devices um um which we have to get a signature
sheet for that. So when we somebody uses it has earphones people can use that with their their phones. But the better part of it is that actually if you go outside on the on the there's a there's an ear a hearing device ADA compliant
sign that has a QR code on it and the QR code you scan that QR code you can actually download the app and listen either to your phone to your ear or if you have listening devices some people have hearing aids that are Bluetooth capable or they have their own Bluetooth
um speaker you know or hearing um you know earbuds but that they can actually listen to it while they're sitting in the audience. And we also have, you know, put up this TV now where we have the closed caption in here. So, we've we've more than met exceeded the the uh
ADA requirements. And if you've noticed around town hall, too, we've placed up signs all over the place with with the rooms and the locations and that are also braille, which is also an ADA compliant so that we can so that we can be in compliance. >> Right.
>> Great. So for that I want to say thank you. >> You're welcome. And we could thank Mr. uh Garcia for for spearheading that. >> Yes. >> You know, Council President, I I do want to say something before it gets too late and before I forget because if we're
going really out of order and stuff. Um so, you know, thanking employees. So this Saturday we're going to lose a a very val we're going to lose several several employees on Saturday. One of them's a close friend of mine, Deputy
Chief Dan Shel, um and Deputy Chief Douglas Johnson from the fire department who's hiring and they're going to be sorely missed. Um but we also have a director leaving on Saturday. >> Yes. >> Mr. Reynolds. So Mr. Reynolds was put in
a precarious uh predicament when we had an unfortunate timely uh death of Mr. Pelos and uh he stepped up and he did an admirable job. Um and he's gotten to the point where he made a decision. A light bulb went on his head
and said it's it's his time. So um I just want to say thanks Lou. >> He was a pleasure to work with. Yes. I'm sorry to see him go. >> Yeah, >> we all are. Yeah, he was one of the best. Thank you, Louie. >> Yeah, >> thank you.
>> Thank you, Lou, for all you do. >> Y >> I I was going to bring that up in Oh, I'm sorry. Can I recognize? Sure. >> I was going to bring that up in uh in pending matters because he's a big loss to us. >> Huge,
>> huge loss to us. And um wish him the best and his retirement and and our other staff members that are retiring. a lot of, you know, a lot of people that put in a lot of service and a lot of time for this community. Um, but when we
get to pending matters council president, I do, you know, I do want to mention a couple things about um where that leaves us >> and how we need to move forward and I had a question for Mr. Smaldo, but I'll wait till we get to pending matters. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. And I I also wanted to mention cuz at test 45 he's usually he watches >> but I'm afraid he might be asleep already and if I missed him >> cuz he one he's getting 4:30 every day. >> So >> so hopefully he'll he'll hear this on
the replay. So thanks again Lou. >> He's not on. He's asleep. Mr. Fagan is confirmed. He is out like a light. >> So >> madame clerk finally >> are we pulling any resolutions? Any uh any are we pulling any resolutions this evening?
>> Yes. >> Um >> Councilwoman, >> uh 232, >> you're pulling or asking questions? >> I am pulling. >> Okay. >> Um 233
234. >> Can we pull those an item? >> No, nothing is pulled yet. Okay. Oh, I'm confused. I thought we pull >> No, we didn't do this yet. This is >> uh >> You did talk about it, but you didn't
pull it. >> Did we pull a No, we didn't pull anything. A failed. >> Ruden's done. >> Anybody else want to pull anything? >> 23. Which one? >> That's it. 23 two three and four.
>> No, we discussed everything else. Okay. Is there a motion to uh approve the consent agenda? >> I make a motion approve the consent agenda. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? The consent agenda is
implemented. Resolution 232-25, resolution stating no objection to the Montlair Golf Club at Rock Springs issuance of a license for the use of a helicopter to deliver Santa Claus. Uh,
is there a motion to approve? >> I'll make a motion approve. I have a question. Doesn't that usually happen at Montlair? Is that >> This is the Montlair Golf Club. This is that guy at Spring. Oh, they're still at
Rock at Rock Springs >> as far as I know. Yes, I could double check it and they're still keeping the name, huh? Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, this is not over at our Rock Spring. This is over at Dur.
>> Yeah. What we do every year? Yes. Okay. >> Yes. >> I just wanted to That's where I just got a little confused by the name. >> Right. I I'll double check that to make sure, but I think I already did, but >> I don't know if they were No. taking Dana over in a limo after he got off the helicopter.
>> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you. No discussion. >> Okay. Um, yes. I' I'd like to discuss this. I think that laws in this town are in place for a reason. And West Orange has a zoning ordinance that explicitly
prohibits an airport, aircraft landing strip or helport in the zoning district. and it prohibited it prohibited in all zoning districts within the townships. Um it also includes emergency helicopters which are not permitted. Um
these laws are created to keep us safe and incidents like the one that happened with that killed Kobe Bryant and his 13-year-old Gianna, 13-year-old daughter, as well as seven other people. They happen. Last April, we saw another
accident. April 10th, 2025, a helicopter carrying, I believe, seven uh tourists from overseas where the helicopter broke apart and landed in in the Hudson River. Um I'm very concerned that West Orange
could have liability if anything like this happens. It would be tragic. We would may have, you know, I'm not sure if we would have legal responsibility, but I do think that we would have moral responsibility for allowing our own laws
to be set aside for um for this purpose. I'd also like to just generally ask, what message does wavering our laws for a private event exclusively for members of this high-end country club send to our community? I know it's been done
before and I know that um you know many will argue that well it's never happened in the past but um I think that anything can happen and the fact that it's been done before doesn't make it right. On top of this I also think we now
understand that even a short flight can cause immense amount of greenhouse gases and lead. Um it disrupts local wildlife. It produces decibel levels comparable to a jackhammer. So I say bring on jingle
bells, not jackhammers. Um, as we see wars breaking out all over the country, um, and military incursions, the image of Santa Claus, who is a symbol of peace and goodness on Earth. um arriving in a noisy,
alarming conveyance. It's more suited for a military incursion than for eight tiny reindeers. So, the bottom line is I say yes to Santa and no to helicopters. I'd like to encourage Santa to be a little bit more environmentally
friendly. Um arrive in a quieter conveyance and be maybe a more child-friendly carriage. And I urge my colleagues to support um this change. I know it is a change, but I think that we can do better and I
think the country club can do better. >> Anyone else? >> No. Compelling argument. Well, I I I agree with your your concerns, but I think uh as as you mentioned at the end of your at the end
of your comment that uh we perhaps you taking the lead should reach out to them and discuss with them and alternatives to to doing this. I don't feel comfortable with uh uh just cutting them off at this point when it's I don't know
how long they've been doing this, but I know what I voted on it when I was on my Yeah. first term. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but I I think it'd be a good idea to sit down and talk to them and see if we can work out some sort of alternative. Obviously uh uh if we don't come to an
agreement then you know we can uh prevent them next year but I I I think we should uh uh we should have a discussion with him. >> I'm I'm okay with it. I I mean I hear you. I mean, what happened with I mean,
that was devastating with Kobe Bryan and, you know, but you're talking winds, weather, mountain ranges, and all that other crazy stuff. Um, yeah, accidents do happen. Um, but I'm okay.
>> Anybody else? >> But I do encourage you to go talk to them, which I'm sure you will, cuz you know, which is a good thing. I think you advocate for that. I think that's great to advocate for. Um >> what was it? >> Which one? >> Okay. >> Well, my resp my response is that
>> it is >> it is us that set policy and it's and it's our responsibility to safeguard our community in many many ways. >> Um and I think that by taking this small step and asking them to make a change,
they can make a change. There are many many other ways for Santa to arrive. It's it doesn't even make sense that Santa is arriving in a helicopter. It's so lo so noisy. It's so disturbing to the whole area.
Come on your reindeer. Come on a horse. Come on an electric car. Come in a in a fire truck. Come in a trolley. You can arrive in another way that is more friendly and friendly to the children because frankly many children get frightened when they see a helicopter, a
very noisy helicopter. Well, obviously they keep doing it every year. I'm sorry. >> Council own rooms has the floor. >> I I just think that that it's it's something that that we can set policy and it's not for us to negotiate with
them. We tell them what we can tolerate as a community and they can make an adjustment. Councilwoman, >> so I I know you're saying kids get afraid of helicopters, but you know, I my three-year-old granddaughter always
wants to go to the >> airport than Fairville when we go to Target to go see the helicopter. So, um, again, more appropriate spot for the helicopter. And we could say no and they could probably go to Montlair and go on
the other side of the parking lot in Montlair and it would still have the same effect on our community. So, I hear you. Um, very compelling argument. I'm okay with this. So, I guess we just call for the vote and and if it if it passes,
then councilwoman, I I you know, I'll go with you to go talk to them. >> I have a question. >> Counciloman, >> have any of the neighbors ever expressed any concern about the dirt or the noise or the pollution or anything? >> I've never heard any complaint
>> next to the reservation. I don't think really that that is raise your hand please. Thank you. >> Please go ahead. >> This is a highly polluting, highly
noisy, highly disruptive thing that is not allowed in our community and it's not allowed by ordinance. We don't allow this in West Orange. Why are we making an exception for an exclusive country club that does not cater to our
residents just because they have always done this? They pay high taxes. >> Please raise your hand, guys. Do we need a break? >> No. No. But >> please go ahead. >> But but again, country clubs, they pay high taxes to us. So it's not like, you know, you make it sound like they're,
you know, we we do favors for them all the time. They're they're a high they they pay taxes. I I I mean, so if it wasn't safe and the police department didn't feel that we shouldn't do this, it wouldn't be on the agenda.
>> And if and if it was so safe, this town would never have passed an ordinance which specifically prohibited this type of helport arrangement. Weather can happen. We're talking about in December. This is not one flight. This is two
flights. And if they want to do this in Maple on the Monontlair side, go for it. Go get it in the Monontlair side. We as West Orange can stand against this type of um
danger and and environmental abuse. >> Well, I'm I'm uh again, I'm I understand your your uh your position and your concerns and I share them. uh but that property that is is a member of our
community. We should think about them in terms of while they're not residents, they are certainly part of our community and and we should reach out to them uh to see if we can again there's that word collaborate with them on some
alternative. Uh they very well may be amunable to an alternative and uh the only way to find out is to go talk to us. That would be please. >> They will come up with an alternative, a less expensive, a less noisy, a less
disruptive alternative as soon as we say no. This is not the way Santa arrives to your home or your home or anybody else's home. And it's just a luxury that we are allowing a very exclusive country club to have. And to say that we have done
nothing for this country club is not true. We have we've given them many many permits to put up um guards to to reter their to alter their their landscape. Um that it's not true that we have not accommodated them when they've had
needs. This is something that I that that is dangerous and that is destructive to our our environment. And whether or not the neighbors complain or not or what you know that's really not the point. We are here to make policy. I think I've said
enough. >> Councilwoman, I I think you said the opposite of what I think she heard. You were saying we do we do help them sometimes because they're members of the community, didn't you say? >> Yeah. Um, yes. Okay. >> Yes. And I'm saying, too, we do we do we have we have created ordinances for
them. We have allowed them to build structures and to take down trees and to do all sorts of things as they need it. So, we have been very very good um hosts for a business in our area and I think we should be business friendly, but I
think that there's a point when we have to just follow our own ordinances and not make exceptions for people because this really starts to look like a, you know, an entitlement that a wealthy club like this can have this type of entitlement and somebody else might not
be granted this entitlement. Okay, I'm going to set that as a close of discussion. Madam clerk, >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes.
>> The motion carries. I just want to say though, I think we should talk to them for next year and we should have a conversation. >> I'm concerned that we're breaking our own ordinance. >> Let's Let's just try an exercise. Let's everybody talk at the same time. Okay. So, three, two, one.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United Come on, join me. Come on. Nobody raised their hand. Everybody talk at the same time. >> How about take me out to the ballpark >> because I maybe it's just me, but I I find that I lose the thread and I think I need to be paying attention to this. If everybody would just raise their
hand. It's >> Can I go on? >> I wish there was a beer in here right now. And I was watching the ball game. >> Yeah. Okay. A >> 233-25 resolution authorizing agreement with
Matthew Fula, Deputy Chief of Police. >> Um, yeah. Excuse me. Before we speak about this, this is a personnel matter. So, I between this and the next one, I I I'll refer to the council here, but I think this is more of a personnel matter. So,
we should probably have to do this in executive session. >> Yeah. I was going to recommend uh before Mr. Smalda jumped in, I was going to also jump in and say if this is just to to say what was said earlier that there's concerns that the contracts weren't attached, that's fine. But if we're going to talk about any merits of the contract or whether we agree with it
or not, you should go into to private or talk about it in another meeting. Councilwoman, >> I'd like to make a motion to go into close because I did ask earlier with the administration because I I think it is a closed conversation and because I have
just questions in in general um which will be you know consider personnel. Um, >> Councilwoman, >> I said >> I I know that this is a personnel um
discussion, but I just think that what was said earlier just there's nothing really to discuss right now. The public has not seen the documents. It wasn't put up in time and this just can't go forward tonight. >> I I I I'm not I'm going to table it, but
Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry it's late. >> Please go ahead. But I have I have to ask the attorney questions whether if you don't want them, we could table it and I could talk to him separately tomorrow, but I
>> I I need to ask the attorney questions. >> Yeah, I'd like to hear your questions, too. >> So, I'm sorry. I know it's late unless we do it next time, but >> maybe we should do that. >> Always going to be late next meeting. We always have a lot to do. >> Yeah. So, just so we understand, Mr.
Burke is our labor county. >> You know, I know. >> I was just saying and and we just approved a a reszo tonight or a settlement where Mr. Samero is going to be coming next next week. So, you will not have the opportunity of Mr. B at the next meeting.
>> Mr. >> So, I'm just just stating the the you know what your options are here. >> I promise to keep it quick. >> I doubt that. So, if I if I get it straight, the alternate or the options are to either
have a an executive session now, if we can get four votes. Oh, wait. I'm sorry, Mr. Burke is advised. We don't need four votes to make a floor motion for an executive session. We only need three. Correct. >> Yeah. Yes, Council President. I believe looking at what you were talking about earlier, you need four votes if you
wanted to amend a resolution you already passed. So if you pass a resolution and then you want to change it, then you need full four votes. But to just make a motion to enter closed, you just >> So the one thing we could do is to do that is to go into executive session. The other alternative is to table these
and let whoever wants to talk to Mr. Burke uh do so before the next council meeting and then we can like move on. And uh >> I could talk to him after the meeting. I'm fine. >> Is that okay for everybody? Council woman, >> I'm amendable to a short executive
session just >> have because I would like to hear your questions >> and and uh if I could What's the definition of a short executive session? >> 10 minutes. Okay. Well, >> I'll bring my phone. Okay. >> And I'll start the stopwatch. >> Uh
>> actually, >> Councilwoman Castle. >> Yeah, actually because maybe he could answer a question on the ordinance that we have to 2942 question there too. And this has to do with salary guide. So
that's why I need to ask the attorney. >> We've already >> we've already voted on 242. >> Oh, you're talking about 29 29. >> Okay. No, we haven't voted. >> We haven't voted on that. >> Okay. Sorry, I misunderstood.
>> Uh, so council, Mr. Burke, if we're going to talk about the salary ordinance too, that is a personal matter. So I think you have to amend your executive session to include both. Yes. Okay. I'll meant to include both. >> Am I correct in that? >> 33 233 234
and and two >> 2942 ordinance. And again, this isn't about indiv any individuals per se. It's about negot uh negotiated salary guides. >> Okay. So, Councilwoman, uh you want to
make a floor motion? >> Yes. I >> Or is that what you just did? That was my four motion to go into executive session. >> I'll second quickly. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak,
>> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Let's go. >> Is that your stopwatch, Jeff? >> I am. I'm going to I'm going to stopwatch you guys. 10 minutes. here. The Zoom audience council has just uh
voted to go into executive session. So uh I will be putting it on mute and you will see when they come back in uh from executive session and I will report as warranted. Thank you. Mr. Vegan
Ros, thank you for your patience. As you can see, uh, Township Council has returned from executive session and at this time I'd like to turn the meeting over to the council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan. I believe
I believe that we were on ordinance on first reading 2942-25 an ordinance creating a reclassification and salary schedule for certain township of West Orange employees setting forth their titles classification and salary ranges and adopting a salary guide and
establishing the employees status as a township employee and under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of Personnel brought to you by Mr. the act. >> I'll make a motion to approve that. >> A second. >> Okay.
>> Oh, to introduce on first reading. Sorry. >> This is a motion to introduce on first reading. Um, okay. Is there any discussion? >> No. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa,
>> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. I just want to make one statement, council president. >> No, >> Mr. Smearaldo. >> No, we'll get >> no >> information that we requested. Thank you. >> I'm sorry. Did you I'm sorry. I was just
>> I know you were teasing. I know. >> So, you asked what you needed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> He knows. Okay. >> And that's it for >> No. >> No >> resolutions. >> You got to go back to the resolutions. >> Oh, I thought we had already >> No.
>> Yeah. Me, too. done that through this. >> Okay. So, uh, >> Counciloman Ruden pulled 235, 233, 234, correct? Is that what you're referring to? >> Yes, madam clerk.
>> Yes. 233 and 234. Yes. >> Okay. This is a resolution authorizing agreement with the two deputy chiefs. That's uh 233 and 234. But let's just let's just go to 233.
Is there a motion? >> Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve 233. >> Is there a second? I'll second. >> Is there any discussion? 233-25. If I could, council president, again,
just to remind the council to to not talk about personnel and individual specific issues with the contracts. >> Yes, >> we'll try to behave. Yes. >> And resolution authorizing the agreement. It's a uh employment contract,
>> right? >> And we have a we have a motion on the floor. Is there any discussion, >> Madame Clerk? Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak,
>> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Resolution 234-25 resolution authorizing agreement. It's also another employment contract. It's both of these are extensions of existing contracts,
proposed contracts. >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you. >> Any discussion? >> Yes. I did not think I needed to discuss this, but these contracts were not up
and not available to the public. We've gone over that. We've discussed that. There is no rush. This is not taking place until December 31st. The prior one should not have been approved. This is not fair. You would never have allowed that if you could have in in your prior
years. That this was not up on >> Appreciate it. if you wouldn't point your finger. >> I'm so sorry. >> Um, this is this is not being transparent with the public and we owe the public more. There's no contract and and I the public has talked to us about
this. This should not be happening. I'm really surprised at all of my council colleagues to approve contracts with that the public has not seen. There's one thing to do with settlement that we have all been privy to. There's another thing to do this
that is not fair and that is a black mark on all of us. Mr. Burke, >> I'm sorry. What was the Is there a question? >> It's the black mark question. Is this indeed a black mark? >> I that the council's free to pass the
resolution if you want to. Um, you know, the other one was already passed, so you'd need four votes to amend that. You too, Kevin. >> Yes, please. >> So, I hear you.
My issue is even if the and even the public saw it and these were up or we wait till next time and they're up. We still can't discuss it. >> So, we could table. >> Please raise your hand.
>> I'm sorry. No, I'm just I'm just like this is my thought process. So, I'm not being disrespectful, but at the end of the day, we still can't discuss it with the public. It's an appointment contract. >> We >> please raise your hand.
>> Councilwoman Scarp, did you raise your hand? >> No, I was just going to say, would it would it be a good idea to table it? >> Okay. >> Anybody else? >> We can hear we can hear public input. That is important. The public are are
where we get our money. They are our taxpayers and we owe it to the public to hear public comment. We are completely cutting them out. Yes, we eventually will make the decision, but I also think that there should be more discussion in the details of this and I would probably
like to go back to executive session to to iron out some of this contract. So, >> uh, does anybody know if this was made public, all of this was made public in 2021 when it was first made and there's a resolution that passed it?
>> It was a resolution passed. I don't know what what was placed on the website at the time. I can't tell you that, but >> it was on Zoom, too. So, I don't know. I can't remember. It was co >> So, just so I'm clear, council president, we passed the one contract
prior to this one. Correct. >> That's correct. And then Councilwoman Ruden. Uh, >> so and we want to this one for the same exact contract. >> So I'm just I'm just asking the question. We're trying to So now we're
trying not to authorize the other one in a personnel matter. Okay. I just want to make sure we're clear on that. That's all. >> We have a pending vote. The two contracts are identical without naming names. They are simply extensions
>> for a few more months of what has existed since 2021. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think you're overthinking it. >> And well, Councilwoman Ruden has a good point. >> Yeah. >> Has a good point that we should as a policy >> give people enough time to do this. And
I don't know why uh this wasn't made uh available to the public. I I don't know why, but uh Again, I just go back. >> It's nothing nefarious. When we eventually put this up, they can
look at it and and I think see that it's pretty darn benign. It's not like we're it's it's not like we're trying to do something, at least as far as I know, to do something backhanded to try to promote something that's bad for the townships. And I understand the concept
of uh of giving people a view of this, but uh uh it certainly wasn't intentional and and we'll make it I there's no reason why we can't make it available. Is that correct? >> Does any correct? >> Yeah, we we'll put it up whenever we can.
>> Um and people will at least have the transparency to see what we were doing. And uh anyway, go ahead. First of all, I I know that we're not referencing names, but their names are on on here. And Absolutely. And there's no reason why why this can't be discussed openly
without going into the contracts. Second of all, these are fiveyear contracts. >> It's an extension to the end of this year >> to the end of this year. That it's not a 5-year contract. It was a five-year contract in 2021, but now it's 2025.
>> It's a couple months. Well, you know, I haven't seen the the contracts, so you know, thing just >> I've seen them. We got >> I've seen them. You will be, I think, mightily disappointed. >> Okay. >> And what was in there? >> Well, that's that's fine. But I think
that my point still remains that the public did not get to see this as a policy. We should not be This can come back in two weeks. This is still this is still um December 31st. I'd like a chance to review this whole thing again.
>> Any other comment? >> Well, if if we uh how do we go backwards on 233? We'd have to resend what we did. >> You'd need a four vote motion to resend. Yeah, >> that's if we want to do it. I mean, I I
again, I agree I find myself agreeing with Councilman Ruden way often and yet we seem to come across the disagreements of of whatever, but uh this is not uh
this is not anything that we have to be keep confidential. There's very little information in it and it's it's almost like a housekeeping. We're extending the contracts that have existed since 2021 for a few more months. We're going to
we're going to get another crack at this in a few months. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I mean, >> hold on. >> Can Can you make sure it gets up online? >> Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Can >> Yes, please. Yeah, if you could get it
online, I I'm willing to to move forward with it tonight because even if people, you know, I mean, this is >> so so council president. Yes, Mr. Smaldo, >> Mr. Mr. Diniac and I are are saying that
so that we can get in the spirit of of of working together here. Um, if let us get the information. I I just want to point out to the record, you did pass one. >> Yes. >> Contract. Now, >> in order to take that back, you need to
get a 40 vote. And that means that the people who voted for it now don't support what they just supported. So, I'm just put laying it out there. If you want so that we can be transparent with this, we will we'll get you the we will make sure that you get all the copies of the contract so you can make a a vote.
But all we're doing is asking you to extend this contract. The contract that are expiring December 31st and these contracts will take first take place for January 1st. They're extending we are extending the contracts. There's nothing changing in the language with either one of these contract. All we're doing is
we're trying to get this in place now so that we can because we brought it to you ahead of time. So we weren't scrambling at the end and and and so we were trying to do this now because we only have three council meetings remaining in this this year. So, uh, you know, so that we
I don't want to see one one contract get passed and the other one doesn't and then it causes a problem that may cause a legal problem, you know. So, I think we either have a choice of you you vote it down, we take the other one, go back four votes and resend it or you move forward with this contract and approve
it. I mean, I think that's really what it comes down to. And we can get you, you know, I just I just want to make sure that we're all clear and above board and transparent as what we're doing here so that we can make this argument or a discussion with you to so that the council is informed and it
doesn't look like we're trying to do something underhanded here. >> But you you uh you make a good council president. >> Thank you, >> Counciloman R. Thanks. No. >> Um, but you have been saying that this just
extends it to December 31st. Yet, article 9 here says this agreement shall become effective January 1st, 2026 and shall terminate on 30 uh December 31, 2030. >> That's what I said. Yeah. No, I said that. I said >> he just said that. He said that.
>> No, no, this the current contract they have expires December 31st. These new contracts start January 1st. That's that. So they so you're voting on is is ex is really the extension of this contract for another five years. There's
nothing has changed in the the current contract. The you're going to vote on the contract that's going to go from January 1, 2026 to whatever what's the end date? 2029 >> to 30 >> to 30. Okay. So until 30. So that's so that's what the contract is. It's not
we're not trying to extend these particular contracts to December 31st this year. >> I misspoke. You're you're absolutely right. Sorry. So this is my >> So I just want to make sure we're all clear on that so we understand. But you >> but you did approve in the vote >> the one contract. Now the discussion is
do you want to resend this in four and we get you all the information. >> Right. Mr. is the administration okay with with waiting until our next council meeting. Um, >> is there any reason why we >> I would say for the record, no. But because I I think these two gentlemen,
these two people do a great job and I and I would support that. That's why we put this forward to support these two. But um, you know, we have we have a reason, you know, you have one passed. I mean, why would I I mean, >> cuz we can resend it. That's what I'm just trying to see.
>> Yeah. No, I'm saying I I I don't I don't really support it, but if it if it's the case, we will get you the information to to compel the argument for the next one. So my question is which I forgot to ask Mr. Burke which I don't I think I can
ask out here is when do the um when do the other police contracts expire? >> Um let me pull >> these should run consecutively with those. >> Well it's they're they're like they just
passed they were just passed last year. They're fiveyear cont. No, I Well, I I know that, but they go through >> they go through 2028. >> 12 12. >> So, I think we should
these should go to 2028. If we're if we're doing what we I thought we were doing in there, then these should go to 2028 as well. >> Yeah. No, I know. But >> Okay. Okay. Uh, I make a motion if I
toend. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Vote >> and my second on uh 233-25. >> I'll second. >> Well, I'm just rescending it. I don't need a second >> to make the motion. Could be made the original motion.
>> Okay. So, I make the motion toend 233 >> and then council. >> I resend my second. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, >> actually, if I could, I you should do a motion to reconsider would only require a majority vote, like more votes for than against. And it just needs to be
made by someone who voted for the ordinance or the the resolution, rather. >> So moved. >> Wait a minute. Reconsider. >> So you don't vote. She voted. >> Motion to reconsider. >> It just needs to be moved by somebody that voted in favor of the prior resolution. And it only requires the
majority, more votes for than against. And it doesn't require the two-thirds of the whole council. >> Does it require a second? >> It does require a second, but it doesn't have to be somebody that voted for uh the resolution. >> So, we got a motion. Do we have a second? >> Who made the motion? >> I did. >> Oh, I thought I had Okay, then I'll
second. >> You and I tried to resend, but Mr. Burke wouldn't let us. >> All right. So, I'll second it. All right. So, it's just the opposite. Okay. Okay. Um Oh, council Madam Clerk. >> Yes. Councilwoman Castelino.
>> Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> I'm not supposed to vote. I'd vote. I thought >> Yeah, >> you you can vote on it. You just can't move it if you voted against it. >> Okay. >> Right. >> You have to be on the side that won the prior vote to make the motion. >> Okay. >> Yes. C. Okay. Council President Koviaak.
>> Yes. >> Motion carries. Now discussion. >> I move to approve. I'm sorry. We're going to we're going to leave these till next meeting. But I'm going to recommend that they they have to end with the same
dates as the other contracts. >> That's my recommendation. >> Okay. >> In order for me to move it four boom boom 11 12 five. Okay. Is that it for the
resolutions? I hope. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. So then I apologize. So then you need to redo the motion to pass it now. >> No, they don't want to pass it. >> So then they all should vote no cuz you're reconsidering the motion that you passed it on. >> Oh, so now >> So you've moved it's it's succeeded that
you're reconsidering the motion to pass it. So now everybody should >> Well, can't we table it? >> You can mo make a motion now to table it. That'll supersede the other one. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> We're not supposed to have a discussion with the table. >> Apologize.
>> Thank you, Mr. Burke. We're going to miss you. >> Still. >> Yeah. >> Councilwoman Castelino to table. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman. Council President Krobia. >> Yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Okay. >> And thank you, Councilwoman Rhoden. You're right. So 234-25, I'm sorry, 234. Do we need to table that as well? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Make a motion to table 234. I'll second.
>> Hold on a minute. >> We never voted on it, >> right? That's true. Okay. So, motion to table. Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> to table. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa,
>> yes. >> Council President Krobia, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Pending matters, new matters, council discussion. Is that where we're going to go next? >> Yes. Um, so we have best practices on the
pending matters, new matters, council discussion. Mr. >> Counc. Um, so every year, well, for the past, I seven, eight years, I believe it has been, uh, the state of New Jersey, uh,
through the division of local government services puts out what they call the best practices inventory. This year it was a series of 70 questions that need to be answered by the municipality. And um there is a uh scoring system that
determines whether or not you will receive the full amount of the last 5% of state aid. Um so if you score 32 or better, you get 100% of the last 5%. If
you score, you know, less than 23 points, they withhold the entire amount of the 5%. for the township of West Orange. Um the last 5% of state aid was $227,537. Um thankfully we did qualify uh with a
score of 35. Um even though there's 70 questions, not all of them are scored. There's unscored questions, there's survey questions. Um the scored ones are called the core compet competency. Um the best practices inventory this
year featured questions on budgeting, capital projects, emergency services, environmental issues, ethics, financial administration, insurance, uh un unscored survey questions on lead remediation, um uh what they call the opportunity
zones, personnel, procurement, redevelopment, shared services, technology, transparency and utilities. I believe uh a copy has been provided. In many cases, the answers have to be accompanied by a comment. Um, so, you
know, we did well enough, like I said, to to get the final 5%, which will be November uh 3. Um, yeah, let me do the math. November 3rd, we'll get the wire for the last 5%. Um
and uh we had some uh some questions that actually um things we're working on um especially when it comes to um HR u monitoring our professional licenses and all that. So
um there's no action that's needed to be taken tonight on the best practice inventory. It's just required that we have the discussion to keep the council and the residents um a breast of the the score that we received. Um we do take it
seriously in that uh you know it's one of the pieces of data that we can use to improve our processes. Um, and you know, I couldn't have done it without some of the professionals that obviously need to give me information to answer some of these
questions. So, um, that's best practices. Uh, we qualify for the full amount of the state aid. So, >> nice job. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That concludes my discussion. >> Thank you.
>> Is that up on the website yet? >> Um, I'm putting it up tomorrow. I wanted to do the discussion first. >> Sorry, I missed that. Thank you. >> Ask one question. >> Sure. Sure. Please. >> Why Why don't we put on all current labor labor agreements
including online? >> We didn't have them in one specific place. they end up because they get passed by resolution sort of ending up in the agenda sections of our um but the question wanted it to be one defined
website and at the time I answered it it wasn't you know we didn't do it so I had to answer it as a as a no it could be something that we we add a section for for the labor contracts that's why I said like some of this you know we can
implement. Even if I answered no, you know, we can implement for potentially next year. >> It would be nice to have all of the ordinances codified and up. >> They are. >> It says, are your municip municipalities
codified and uncodified ordinances including all current salary ordinances posted on the municipality's website? >> Municipal code. >> It's in the code book. >> It says no. their their question and and I know because it's I answer it every
year. They want a specific section that has all the numbered ordinances in a row by year >> that you can just click into and go and again we have them in all the agendas. We have them referenced in the code book. It's not the one place that
they're looking for. >> Right. So >> interesting >> because I've had the the battle about it in municipalities that you know similar we reference them in a code book or we have them in the agendas. They want one
place >> to search resolutions and ordinances. Well, this ordinances >> it's it can be redundant because again, you know, if you go on our code book, >> yeah, >> you know, you have all the hot links on those ordinances and you go into our
agenda and you can pull all the data. >> It's just >> spread out because now they're asking, they didn't used to ask for the the link to the websites. Now they ask for the link to the website that goes in the comments >> and they will check them and that's why
I can't say yeah it's all in one place because they're going to say no it's not >> thank you Mr. Yeah, >> I have one question. >> Please go ahead. >> Thank you. Uh, no. Well, well, this is on a different matter. Um, so I
mentioned earlier I had a question about DPW. So, with Mr. Reynolds retirement, obviously you're going to be uh advertising uh for the position, but I'm asking about we never gave Mr. Reynolds
the and we're supposed to the past couple years we start to budget it then it gets taken out um an assistant for that department. So I was wondering where if the administration is planning on putting
one in the 2026 budget and I going to lobby my council colleagues if they're able to do that. I highly recommend that, you know, you're gonna have a new person coming in. You have somebody that left with all that
wealth and knowledge and, you know, depending, you know, who you put in that position, they're going to need a strong hopefully assistant or not. I I don't know. But it's something that we Mr. Reynolds was very vocal
about um the need in that department and with all the buildings we own and the properties that we own unless we're selling something you know sometime a few of them uh sometime soon I would highly recommend you consider that as
well an assistant position. I'll just I just you know I don't want to talk about this late hour but I just wanted to put it on the record. That's all. >> Okay, that's it. Thank you, Council President. >> Well, as long as we're talking about esoteric subjects,
uh you may have noticed that in the contracts that we approved for Mr. Samero and Mr. Pastor, if you go back to the budget, you see there's that we budgeted for the individual salaries. We're not giving them anymore. So, we may have some money
to either move to the uh litigation expenses or I think that's what it's called even though it wouldn't necessarily be for litigation, but we could either move it there or have it for Councilman Castalino's assistant in public works. Anyway, it's something to
think about. >> Correct. Yeah, because we have budgeted in the past for the assistant township attorney and the township attorney which you know we have been paying with the existing for the former law director. So
yes, that would be available next year to reallocate or >> and we're stopping that >> disappear altogether >> as of today. Correct. Does the law does the resolution the settlement agreement take effect today? No, it hasn't been
signed by Mr. Tran. Got it. >> It hasn't been signed by the two new attorneys either. >> We had them here. >> I know. >> It's all right. I'll I'll email it out tomorrow. >> They'll be around sometime.
>> Okay. >> Okay. I on new matters. Are we still on new matters? >> Yes, we are. For the better. >> Since Mr. B prepared the ordinance on the permits and the stop signs. I would like that to come to first reading next
time. There I did I did ask that Rollinsson Street be added in and I don't know if there's any way to add in at this point the heights. >> The I apologize. What do you mean by the heights? Is that a >> there are a whole bunch of streets I
could send to you that are in the Heights that should be should be put in for permit parking. >> I think that would be fine, but I would recommend that the council decide that that's what they want to do as a whole. But we can still make changes to it, especially changes like that. This is
what streets are being included. >> I I would suggest to that if as as Mr. Rivera mentioned, you know, there's a process. So if you have streets that you want considered, just send them to me and I'll send them to Director Carbalo. we could look to do what we can look at it because it's going to it's going to
require her um expertise anyway. So why don't we just do this collaboratively and you can give them to me and I'll I'll send them to her. >> So >> okay, but can we get that on the ordinance for first reading next time? >> I as I've explained to you on numerous
occasions, we just just because you want to have it on the next meeting, there may be other things that have to go. Let let us have the streets, let her look at it, and we will get it to you as quickly as possible. And I'm not talking two years from now. I'm talking, you know, if she has, you know, she may have reasons why we may or may not be able to
do what you're asking for. I don't know what street you're looking for directly. So, let us see it and then we'll we'll do our best to get it to you as quickly as possible. Is that fair enough to >> Yes, I will send you all the streets. >> Okay. Thank you. If I understand correctly, Mr. Burke, when you sent over those draft ordinances, you also sent
them to the administration for their input, right? So, it's not like it's not like you believed that these are ready to be added to the agenda. I think they need more work. We should be able to get to them before the next council meeting, but uh they still need work, I think.
>> Yes. And we noted that um you know, we reviewed them for the whether they were legal or not, but not for you, safety considerations that the police chief may have or the engineer may have about you know what, for example, the stop sign ordinance. you know, yes, you can change it from the 50 feet, but she may say,
"No, it should be a minimum of five feet or 10 feet or whatever it is." You know, right? Part of that may be speaking with the state department of transportation about their recommendations or something. There could be other things that would delay that. >> So, so also, um, we need to pull in the
two new attorneys to this. So, if someone could send them perhaps after, uh, Councilwoman Ruden adds the streets. So, so what is the process? Do I them to Jack? >> Well, council president, I'm having a
meeting with Mr. Samero and and and Mr. Pastor, we're going to set up a meeting in the very very near future to discuss what we we need to do and how we're going to operate. So, if you give me the latitude with the new attorneys to figure out how we're going to operate, I think that may be something that we can
and then we I could communicate that to everybody, how we're going to move forward. >> Sure. I just think we should get it to them sooner rather than later. >> Yeah. No, I I I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just I just But I think we are we are in the infancy of a new target. So, we need to >> we have not had this change in
>> so decades. >> So, if you could allude allow me a little latitude, I would appreciate it. Okay. >> So, we're talking stop signs and I appreciate, you know, I appreciate how much you you advocate and and you push and try to get it done and that's great, but again,
stop signs, it's got to come from the director, too. like she has to look at all this. I don't want to get any stop signs without it going through traffic and the director. I mean, that's just not our our role. That's just not our role. Um, number one. Number two, Mr.
Smaldo, while you're setting up your meeting, how do you want us to proceed? Because I, you know, we we brought m we brought the new attorney on board and I know I would like to have a a one-on-one conversation. How do you want us to
proceed with that? >> Let let me speak to the attorneys to figure out how we can do that and I'll get back to you >> because I don't want all of us leave. >> I I can't I can't answer a question for for them. I don't know what their schedules are, >> you know, I I know that, but I I know I would like to sit down with them. >> I I will make sure that they know that.
I will make sure they know that >> and I'm sure my colleagues probably Yeah. Okay. I I'll make sure that they know it. >> Would Would you guys consider that maybe two of them at a time just to responsive be respectful of Mr. Summer Rose and Mr.
Mr. Pastor's time. >> Yeah. >> Kill two birds with one. >> Yeah. I I don't mind to You already sat down with them, right? Or >> No, no. I've just talked to him on the phone about this all this stuff. >> Yeah. Well, some >> Okay. >> Before. >> Is there anything else under new
business? Because we still have >> Oh, shoot. We have ABC. >> Yeah. It's very fast. needle. >> Um, >> so madam clerk, will you entertain the motion to >> motion to adjourn the public meeting and enter into ABC?
>> So moved. >> Okay. So >> yes, you can. >> Thanks, West Orange. >> Can you give us all the names? >> West Orange. >> Okay. All in favor on that motion and second I I
>> Okay, motion carries. Okay. So this is