Well, good evening, West Orange. Uh, thank you for your patience. We are a few minutes behind schedule. We are coming to you live from Council Chambers, uh, live streaming on the Zoom platform. Welcome to our continuing series of West Orange Township Council
budget workshops. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to Council President. Welcome, West Orange, to our eighth budget workshop for the 2025 municipal budget. I need to defer to madame clerk to make us legal.
>> Yes, sir. This is to inform the general public that this workshop is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The notice for this workshop was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on July 11th, 2025.
Let the record show that Councilwoman Castelino is on her way. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. C >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Council President Koviaak, >> present. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. >> You're welcome. >> As I said, this is our eighth workshop.
The draft budget from the mayor proposed to raise municipal property taxes by 6.2%. And we've been looking for efficiencies and savings to lower that increase. On Tuesday, we finally introduced the budget as required by state law and that
budget had a pro proposed tax increase, if I can do the math correctly, of about 2 and a4%. So, we have significantly reduced the proposed uh tax increase and we continue uh to look at ways to make
the uh budget more efficient. If you want to follow along with our discussions, please go to the township website, westor.org, use the search box in the upper right hand of the page, type in the word budget, then click on the first result, budget, and you'll see
the uh current budget that was introduced on Tuesday uh highlighted with the date July 22nd. We are not taking public comment tonight. If you want to comment or ask questions, please send an email to councilwwest orange.org, or which despite what you
may think also goes to the mayor and several people in her administration. If you just want to send just to the council, send it to one of us and ask for distribution to each of us. If you need email addresses, search for council on the township website. Recordings of the workshops are on the township
website. You can find them by searching for video gallery. Let's see. Tonight's guest from the Citizens Budget Advisory Board is their esteemed chair, Mr. Ron Charles.
He will he's sitting up here on the deis and will be participating in our discussion. Let's see. Lastly, I urge everyone to consider time efficiency in their comments and questioning to be sure what you say is necessary. The faster we carefully go
through the budget, the better. I just want to let also everyone know what behavior uh we expect at the workshops and this is primarily if you're online and you have tried to get help from Mr. Fagan and he tries but you
are not satisfied you are expected not to address any derogatory communication towards Mr. Fagan or in the chat box of the meeting. You should address your complaint to the council president through Mr. Fagan and I will seek to help. Please keep in mind that Mr.
Fagan's primary duty is a seamless meeting. Our council has benefited greatly from Mr. Fagan's expertise on our Zoom meetings for some time. Excessive derogatory communications towards or to Mr. Fagan may result in council discussion of potential steps to
discourage and prevent this behavior. And I also just want to ask my fellow council members to review and approve the Citizens Budget Advisory Board minutes from their first two meetings. I'd like to get that done by Monday 9:00 a.m. if at all possible. So we can uh
move this to the move them to I believe the administration hasn't seen them yet. Correct. >> Okay. >> We have nine. >> So So uh we will get those to you by 9 tomorrow uh Monday morning if not before. And we will also be uh putting them up online. And also ask everybody
uh on the council to review a uh the draft of the uh citizens budget advisory board uh report that's required in the ordinance and uh I have not gotten through it yet, but it is it is excellent. So please review that as much
as you can as quickly as you can. If you have any comments, please direct them back to Mr. Charles and we will get that cranking too. All right, Mr. >> President, may I just say very quickly, thank you for your support and we have had a few missteps, but they are well behind us and we are prepared to move
forward with whatever comes our way. >> Wonderful. >> Thank you very much. >> I was I was happy to see your face tonight walking in. Mr. Diniac, please, you have the con. >> Thank you, Council President. Um, tonight uh our agenda and I will bring
that up on the screen for everyone at home. hopefully it can be seen. Um, tonight we are going to go through the appropriation pages. Um, pages 16 through 120 excluding pages 22 and 31.
Um, we're going to be going through these pages and uh and the council is going hopefully uh to be voting on either accepting or modifying um the appropriation pages. So that is
the goal for tonight. Um we have a lot of pages to go through. So uh proposed for next meeting it probably will be a continuation of the appropriation reviews and votes. Um later on in the meeting we can talk
about um any other uh potential topics that council members or the CBAB would would like to include on the next meeting. But I I put a few up there. um a review of the pool utility for 2025, a review of our debt management plan, and
um a potential presentation by Citizens Budget Advisory Board if they so choose to present and if we have time. Um but you know, we can we can start adding to potential uh agenda items later on in the meeting.
So, if I could get started or would you like to wait for because there is going to be voting. >> I have a quick question. I don't know if you see my hand up. >> Please go ahead, Councilwoman. >> Um, if we're going through each of these
pages and approving them, if we approve them and then we see something later that the Citizens Budget Advisory Board has recommended or something, are we approved? Can we go back and amend again? >> We can we can go back and change
anything that we vote on tonight. We can change anything up until the adoption which is scheduled for uh after the public hearing at the September 30th council meeting and we can actually in in a limited way even make changes further. But I I certainly want to move
forward as quickly as possible. But if there is a situation like that, Councilwoman, we will be able to make changes. And one more question. Um I had um spoken uh spoken and had a conversation with m uh Mr. uh Datiniac
about putting a moratorum on all new hires with the exception of the planner and anything that's related to our litigation. So uh I'd like to know if that's something we can do very generally and broadly before we go through every page or talk about or you
know how that procedure should happen. So, my suggestion would be let's get through the budget and get the vote down. As you probably recall, I've wanted to do these votes as we went along. Now, we have the opportunity. Let's lock them down, get that out of
the way, and then after that, uh, I think we can discuss whatever other items that we want to discuss tonight. If that if that works for you, councilwoman. >> Okay. Let just let me understand. So, if there's a page and we approve a new hire on that page and then we want to go back
and put a moratorum on any new hires because we've already approved it, would we have a problem or can we just go back and do that? >> Mr. Janick, you jump in whatever, but as I said, we can change whatever needs to be changed uh at the time we do that.
So, we can as as you're uh sort of theorizing, we can we can take care of that either later on this evening after we finish uh voting on all the pages or we can do it at a future meeting. >> So, >> whatever is the most expeditious. Yeah, >> council. Because of sort of the order
that we've gone in where we've introduced the budget >> before we've done these individual votes, the individual votes may trigger a budget amendment which will have to be voted on at a public meeting by this body. So, it's almost like
you're getting two bites of the apple here. Um, so we're going to vote on individual pages and then if these votes lead to changes um beyond what we have on on the the introduced budget, you're going to vote again at a public meeting
to amend the budget. So, um you'll have multiple opportunities, >> money opportunity. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you very much. That clarifies everything. >> You're welcome. >> Um Mr. Maldo provided to me, I'm not sure if you provided it to the rest of the council, the new hires for this
year, and there were 62 new hires, 26 seasonal and 36 full-time. Do we have any impact? I mean, I were these were these positions approved in advance? >> Is this all for 2025 or this is like in
the last year? This was 20. I think it was 39 for this year and then 20 I think I think the list went back to July 1st of 2024. >> I'm just counting I'm just counting the ones from 2025 and that was >> maybe I Yeah, there was 39 full-time and then there was the seasonals also
>> the pool people, the pool staff and things of that nature. Um but they were all positions that were already already authorized in the previous month. >> Bus drivers, >> people who retired, left, whatever the case may be. It was it was a one for one. This wasn't an addition to the
>> And there were eight that were hired in this this very month. >> Correct. They were they were bus drivers. >> The police department there >> police department. There was three I think there was three police officer. Yes. I'm sorry. I don't have the list in
front of me. If I could look it up see the police every position that was filled is replacement with the exception of these bus drivers. What we did with the bus drivers, they're part-time for DMs. And what we did with that is they
were a for a pool because we have so many routes that we run. We operate we so we have six routes morning and evening and sometimes our drivers aren't always available. So what we did was we created a pool of of employees that
there are the steady drivers and then these are replacement drivers. they will only be paid for the for the route that they drive that day. So, it's the the amount of money we're spending each day is the same because they're all making earning the same amount of money. It's just it's just to fill the position. So,
we hired these people. They're part- timerrs. I believe they some of them drive already for other um bus companies or or transportation systems. So, we're just using it as a pool because we were running short of drivers. So, um, we came up with this idea and with the the,
uh, possibility of opening up a seventh route, we we need these extra drivers. So, that's where a majority of them came from. And the three police officers were replacement one for one in in the police budget. Do you remember what day I sent that to
you? I want to pull it up to make sure I have the list. You have the data. >> I think you sent it 7:15. >> Yeah, I'll look it up. There were four. Four in the police department. >> There was four. Would be body. If if the it was in the police department would be
body from body. >> Five. >> Five. Then that then that would be the same answer. We didn't we we're not exceeding the table of organization that the chief had put together. >> July 15th.
>> Councilwoman, are you finished? Can we move ahead or you >> Yeah, I that was just related to Councilwoman Scarpa's question because some of these people are coming on came on two days ago or three days ago. There were there were five people from the
health department that were added as hourlies five days ago. I mean um four days ago, three days ago, sorry. >> They were in the process. Those are the ones um the health department list. I'm sorry. Is
recreation department was 75. Recreation 76. No, that's 2020. I'm sorry. 24. Um, >> 20. >> Council President, I I >> Yes. So, I don't know if you guys got a
chance to read uh the draft of the report. >> I did. >> Excuse me. >> I did, too. >> Okay. So, >> excellent. >> Though, there are spots where we're calling for not filling the vacancies of the board. Um, in matters of public safety and health, we believe that that's uh vitally important. So, we
believe that those spots should be filled. um as needed and uh as determined by the administration. >> Yeah. 721. I said this is on the 15th and this says 721. So I I'm going to check with the director on that one. I I'll get you an answer right now.
>> And I have eight pos eight positions that were hired in this year in the police department. >> That will be for Okay. Councilwoman Scarpa, >> I'm okay.
>> Uh I'm glad to hear that you're okay, but I wanted to just ask to clarify uh what you were looking at. You were looking at except for the assistant town attorneys to not fill to put a moratorum on filling any open uh positions that
are in the budget or that might be put in in the budget as part of this process. Is that correct? >> Right. Except for the planner, which is a necessity, and anything that has to do with the litigation, that's the assistant attorney.
>> Okay, sounds good. Thank you. >> Let the record show that Councilwoman Castelino has entered the building. >> Sorry, folks. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. >> So, are we clear on that? Can we move
ahead or are we waiting for Mr. Saldo or Council Ruden? Do you have anything else? >> No. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, we're good. >> Thank you, Council President. Um, for the public at home, um, if they want to follow along, as Council President said, up on the website, um, west.org.
If you go to the finance department up in the top, we're following along. And we go to budget on the left side. and we open up the municipal budget as of July 22nd, 2025. Um, we're going to be going through
these pages and I will uh announce the page number in the uh um on the the document so that you can follow along at home. Um so as I said we
are going to start on page 16. Oh, thank you Mr. Fagan. I can definitely >> uh page 16. This is the mayor's operating expense budget. And in a previous meeting,
the council uh the council had decreased this budget $1,000. Um, and the introduced amount for the mayor's operating expense budget was $1,230.76. Um, so Miss Carnival, we are going to
either if everyone agrees, they they vote on consent. If there is a recommendation to either raise or reduce this budget, you'll have to take a vote. Um, so council president, I don't know
how you want to do you want to call for votes or do you want to call for comments or how do how do you want to do this? >> Well, one of the questions I was have, do we have to go through the process of making a motion? I think >> if you're going to consent, you just consent. Okay. >> And then if someone says, "Oh, wait. I want to vote. I want to vote separately.
You know, I don't want to consent. I want to do then we do the motion and the second and then the roll call. >> Okay. So, does everybody understand that? Because I know the air conditioning is is going so it may be difficult to hear and I I continue to encourage everyone to try to speak into
the microphones as closely and as loudly as you feel comfortable. So, what we're going to do is when we get to these pages, uh, Madame Clerk is just going to ask for consent. And if everyone consents, then we can move on. If there's anyone who wants a vote, then
you have to say so in in some way and that includes you, Councilwoman Scarpa, and then we will go through the formal more formal process of of the motion and a second and then a vote. >> Maybe I can say all in favor and then any opposed. And if any are opposed,
then we know we need to take a vote. >> Okay. >> All right. That makes sense. >> Just just so this is what we have already approved. I mean, we we made the changes reflected. >> We discussed this. Yes. So, the original
proposed budget was $2,230.76. We've reduced it by $1,000 or 44.8% down to $1,230.76. >> Consent. >> Consent. I'm going to say all, >> please. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed?
Okay, we're on the way. >> This reminds me of the Wizard of Oz. And >> yeah, we're in Oz. >> Follow the yellow brick road. So, now we're moving on to page 17. If you're following along at home, this is
the township council salary and wages. um as brought up in the beginning of the meeting >> or no that was not part of the meeting the conversation the meeting but um I want to point out that um former
councilwoman Gber's salary is fully reflected um in this uh proposed budget and was part of the introduced budget. if the council would like to reduce it down to a prrated amount considering that
there's not going to be a new council person >> um added this well >> will be added in November. >> Okay, that that was my question actually. They're the new council person comes immediately after the election >> after it's certified by the county
clerk. >> So it'll be like by the 18th around November 18th or so. So it's half a month. >> Yeah. >> It'll be prrated. So So we need money for one and a half months left
approximately. Yeah. >> Get tested race could go into >> there's a run. So, I propose to the council a reduction of $3,121.75.
So, that basically buys us I'm going to say 9 months of a salary so that I don't cut it too close. And then um >> so >> what was that dollar amount, please? >> $3, >> Mhm.
>> $121.75. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> And that would give us a new total of 59,000. $31,325.
So, if approved, I will create a an amendment resolution reducing township council salary and wages $3,121.75 to a new total of $59,31325. >> I can make that motion to say coming Oh. Oh, she just said
>> what? >> Motion. Yeah, you could. Yeah. Yeah, you can make the motion >> because this is now a change, not a confirmation of what's there. Sorry. Correct. Please. >> Yeah. >> And is there a second to that motion? >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Okay. And now I'll take the vote.
>> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Kovia, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Great. And this may be time to just clarify uh what the process is. Anything
that we want to reduce, we have to have three votes. Anything we want to increase, we have to have four votes. So that's sort of the process we'll take going forward. >> Uh >> unless I'm wrong. >> Super majority for uh Yeah, that's true.
Yes, >> you're right. Again, the fourth. Yeah. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Hi, Council President. Am I jumping right? >> Yes. Sorry about that. >> Percentage wise, uh, Mr. Tank, that's
about 5% reduction. >> Uh, >> close, right? >> Close. Yeah. Uh, >> quick math. >> I I hesitate to do the correct math because then when it's wrong, I look silly. Um, >> well, you can let me do it. I'm look
silly all the time. >> I mean, that's >> Yeah. A little over 5%. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. >> For my notes. Thank you. >> So, the the next page is going to be page 18. This is township council
operating expenses. Um, we don't have any um any reduction. So, >> that that we did have reductions when we met. >> I I have notes of them. >> Yeah.
the uh advertising the the advertising went down the um >> I don't remember that >> notification no went down >> no absolutely not >> I have the >> I I think we talked about it but I don't
think that you voted on it because we I remember talking about the cotification and how expensive it was and how everything kind of >> evens out between the advertising and the because cod the
advertising is 12,513. Cotification right now is 5100. Cotification is far more expensive than that. Um and we talked about how much we've already spent this year. I don't believe there was any reductions made at
the fet just to advertising. Uh, madam cler >> and I just want to ask just once again the subscription is that to NJML to uh legal league of municipalities the subscription?
>> No, we have a separate line item for NJSLM on it's on this page. >> So what is the subscription for this then? >> There isn't one. >> There is one. There's >> what's the line item? >> We had cross duplication and recording and that was supposed to be for
subscription. I don't know. I have no idea. >> And also we had reduced the printing and stationery. I know they're very small numbers but we did do that. >> So as a as a body you this is your time to okay
>> if you want to change something again it would just you tell me how much and you would take a vote. >> Okay. So just going by our our previous notes, we had reduced the printing and stationary so that it would be 180
and we had reduced the advertising to 6,000. Do you have that c um councilwoman? >> Uh I said hair I have here. So, >> okay. So, 6,000. >> Um,
and then there was a reduction in miscellaneous frames. >> Oh, yeah. We talked about we don't need those plaques and stuff. I remember that. >> So, I think that was supposed to go down $210.
we said. >> So that's 60 about 6,500 across the board. >> I think we should look to Mr. Datiniac to make sure that we have the numbers that Councilwoman Ruden is is is uh
looking at. So he'll be the keeper of the changes change numbers. 230. >> Madame clerk, I just want to uh I just want to ask you about uh the line 032 advertising. >> Yes. >> I recall that we discussed whether we
could cut that >> in any significant matter and you were saying that we are putting out a lot of advertising u especially related to uh ordinances this year. >> However, now the law changed. So now we're going to be able to do it online
starting completely in March of 2026. So that will help significantly. The only question is the affidavit. So like how do we get the affidavit? Right now we cut them out of the newspaper and make them ourselves to
save money. But I don't know what they're going to do about that. It's a question. Um so I'm waiting to hear. >> Okay. But for the 2025 budget, >> will that will will the law change impact the money we need to do for
advertising? >> No. >> Okay. Because we're significantly cutting it. >> Yeah. >> Much we've spent up to today. So the proposed cuts based on what we've went over um it would be a decrease of $7,000
$1846 giving us a new total of $27,930.98. >> Can you read that again, please? 27,000. >> Uh the new total would be $27,930.98. Can we just round that up to 28,000?
>> Absolutely. So, the vote would be to reduce the budget from $35,1154 down to $28,000. And this will require a 3 to one vote. >> Okay, hold on one second. 28,000.
Okay, so this is page 18. Um, okay. Do I have a motion to reduce to $28,000 this page? >> That's correct. >> No. Can do you have can I get a motion? I said >> Oh, I'm sorry. I I beg your pardon. Uh
so moved. >> Okay. Thank you. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman C I'm sorry. Councilwoman Castalino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes.
>> Council President Krovia. >> Yes. >> Okay. Oh, the motion carries. Sorry. >> I I guess I should have asked in terms of discussion whether we wanted to get the uh year-to- date numbers for advertising so that we could potentially
>> uh project whether that's an appropriate uh uh oh wait we did not change the advertising so we weren't actually voting 6,000 >> but we had a conversation on it last time. >> Okay. So I'm just looking at what's
here. Uh what is the number that we have decided for 2025 the budget request number or the recommended budget? Either one. >> 6,000 whenever >> we we we put it to 6,000. So
>> either remove it whatever six. >> Okay. Um we're skipping page 19 and moving on to page 20. Okay. >> So, I have on this page. Oh, sorry, council. >> Please go ahead. >> My note here was minus 25500 for
overtime. Not sure if we settled on that. >> We did not. I'd like to speak to that if I can. >> Please. So, just so everyone understands, the clerk's office is more than just putting agendas together and getting meeting
material to the council. I am the custodian of records. I handle the election, my office and myself. My office and it's two people in my office. Oprah ABC matters including uh renewal
of licenses annually. We have 67 licenses which is a lot. Most municipalities do not have that much canvasing licensing, raffle licensing, bingo licensing. Um I am secretary to
the council. I make sure that the codification of all the ordinances um is um is done. Advertising um I make sure that the resolutions and ordinances are kept in an orderly
manner. I assist along with DINA other departments with research of ordinances, daily requests from council, from the staff and from the residents. Um, in the past five years, I've gone back
five years. I work an average of 130 hours overtime. I do not get paid for that and I do get not get comp time for that um because I'm a salaried employee. Uh the last assistant I had worked for me for four and a half years and refused
to take meetings for me, which is a heavy burden on me, which means that I have to literally schedule any events in my life around my job. Um and it's a burden. And so
when we hired Miss Kazinski, we hired her letting her know that occasionally she would have to work the meetings and she would get paid overtime for that as she's not a salaried employee. Um so
and the other thing I want to mention is that we both of us rarely take lunch. We will take it when we need to if we have something to do, but we sit at our desks and work through lunch every day. That is 40 hours extra a month that we are
not getting paid for. So, I would ask respectfully to keep my overtime in my budget for all of the reasons I just mentioned. I It's a burden. It's a burden to me
personally. So, >> I'm not seeing in here what the overtime is. >> So, so there was a note we talked about it. So, what did you what was paid out in overtime last year, Madam Clerk? I don't It's We're not insulting anybody here,
>> but like the f the $5,000? >> I I don't know to be honest with you. >> You don't know how much overtime? >> No. No, I don't know the No, >> I saw Miss Kazinski gets receives it, not you. >> Yeah, she wasn't She wasn't here last year. June never worked the meetings for
me in the last four and a half years. She >> What does that have to do with the overtime? I don't understand. >> Then there was no overtime paid in the last four and a half years. So you can't go by that because she refused to work the meetings. So she was not here. >> So So the overtime would go to Miss
Kinsky working the meetings. >> Correct. If she had to work a meeting. Yes. >> Okay. So how many Okay. So >> that's why I think we had this conversation last time. That's why we we said 25 m just went 2500, >> right? But
>> because the year's almost over. >> And then what happens if, god forbid, I get sick and I'm out and >> you have money and your budget to pay for her? >> Her salary, but what about the overtime hours she works? >> It's almost the we're halfway through the year by the time
>> No, I understand. But I'm just saying if you take it I know >> all the overtime we were talking about. I'm just going over by the >> It's a five It's a $5,000 line and you want to take half of it. So, >> we we're taking a lot of things I didn't we
>> guys you got to just speak one at a time. So, >> no, I understand. But it will never ever be given back. I two years ago I I was asked to give up a part-time person in my budget. This year I needed it back
and there was no way I was ever going to get that back. So, and I and I did that very, you know, I just said, "Okay, fine. Take it and whatever." Because I knew that we were strapped. So, it's, you know, I don't have a I don't have a big budget. So,
for you to take half of my overtime and then if you know, thinking ahead if certain things happen, you know, I don't want to see her not get paid because that was also an idea that was flown, you know, given out. No,
never. Never. We This body This body never spoke of not paying any employee for overtime. So that's not >> I beg to differ. >> Oh my gosh. >> Well, no. That never >> Okay. Okay. We We have to stop this one person at a time.
>> Okay. Because it's it's not going to work if you're both talking at the same time simultaneously. >> Yes. >> So So that's an amazing thing for you to say. And I know you're saying that that didn't happen. It doesn't matter. >> It was an idea, >> right? It doesn't matter because that's not what we're talking about tonight. So, what we're talking about tonight is
that you you want to be sure that there is overtime >> so that if you have to uh do something and and uh Kazinski has to step in correct that there's money to pay her. >> Yes. Very request. >> So now uh
Mr. Diac, do you have any record of uh do do you have a particular line item or an account for overtime for this position or in the in the uh >> yeah office >> as shown up there? It's we we we broke out the overtime from the base pay. Um
>> how many hours is does that represent? I don't know how many hours it represents, but we have made many many concessions where we gave up appropriations without having the votes. This was one of them, I think, where we were just in
disagreement. That's why we didn't alter uh this particular line item for the introduced budget. Um so again, if if you if you do want to decrease it, which we vehemently disagree with, we also have the election
>> um in which you know our employees are off but u Miss Carnival obviously works she's exempt from overtime >> that's the presidential election every four years my office has to work >> so Miss Kazinski will receive overtime for for that day because it is a holiday
so she will be paid overtime for that day um it's not going to be $5,000 obviously but I understand Miss Carnival's point in that she's sort of I don't want to say held hostage but there is very little opportunity for anything to be scheduled around a
council meeting or in this case budget hearings of which this is budget hearing number eight. And I think she just wants the flexibility >> um to have Miss Kazinski who is the deputy um who we want to have experience in these meetings. Um so even if we
wanted Miss Kazinski to shadow um Madame Clerk, you know, we still would have to pay her for that. So, that's that's why we want to keep the overtime number in there. Um, you know, if you do want to reduce it, I just hope you keep it at a
level um that allows us to at the very least pay for bless you. Yes. >> Um the overtime for the election and um have some flexibility for Madame Clerk if she needs to um miss a meeting or
would just again would like to m bring in um the deputy clerk um you know for a hopefully only a few hours of one of our marathon meetings. Um so you know we respectfully request
uh that if you do reduce it you know you don't reduce it in half maybe we come to a number in the middle >> right that's >> what okay let me just respond just so I can maybe get some numbers out that we
can think about. Do you have a record of what overtime has been paid in in the clerk's office so far this year? >> I I don't have it in front of me. I I I don't have in front of me now. >> I know that she worked one meeting, one council meeting, and she also worked one budget hearing.
>> I do know that. >> Yes, I remember. >> Yes, but I don't know what that >> Yeah. >> And I guess we could figure out roughly what she would be paid in overtime. >> Yeah. I mean, I can >> we should be talking figure out. >> Yes. True. >> Sorry.
>> That Yeah. So, and just just to sort of estimate >> if if I I'm right there. If if this is $60 an hour, which I don't know, that would be 83 hours. And it seems like,
you know, we definitely want to have have this um employee available, especially as a fill-in and also for training. But the question is, is it is it um realistic that this person will actually use 83 hours?
>> 83 hours. >> Well, the way council meetings go, that'll probably be three meetings. >> Don't you wish you had her position? >> I'm to do that. >> It's roughly equal to 80 hours. >> Okay.
>> Correct. Um of which she's probably, you know, Let's just say, let's round up and say she's worked 12. >> Okay. >> Um already. So >> So budgeting for 40 hours, would that would that be acceptable to you, Madame Clerk? Um
>> back to 2500 again. Um in that case, correct? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That Yeah. And given there's Oh, sorry. >> Council Scarpa, would you like to speak? >> Yeah. I just was, you know, thinking in my head that this is not really that unreasonable of a request. I mean, given
that there's an election coming up, too, and there's going to be a lot of work related to that and an overtime for that as well as if she has to fill in for council meetings. I mean, you know, I wouldn't cut more than a thousand out of there if if that.
>> Good. >> Okay. Thank you. You're you're finished, Councilwoman? >> Yes, I'm finished. Speaking for the administration, you know, we would gladly accept a $1,000 cut to this line item. I think that would allow um Miss Kazinski to
work uh the election and also be available for future council meetings andor budget hearings or special meetings um for the end of the year. So, um you know, we we thank the council hopefully. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Um can I make can I make a motion? I at
the beginning of this meeting there was a you you had mentioned that our budget committee should present after but the budget our budget recommendations should be taken into consider right right into consideration right now. So I would like
to suggest that perhaps if Mr. Charles would like that there be a presentation from you right now >> before we go into everything or do you prefer just to do it as we I I
personally want you to feel free to chime in as we as we go through these pages >> and I actually thought we were going to have his presentation today. I too would like to Oh, sorry. >> I I I hate to keep interrupting you, but
>> That's right. I got my hand. >> Raise your hand. And >> it is I don't It's raised, >> Mr. Charles. I'm >> sorry. >> Thank you. Uh, council president. Uh, the the board has submitted the draft report. Yeah. and we want to have an opportunity to speak to the council uh
privately about that. But certainly as we go through this exercise tonight if I feel things I want to mention on behalf of the board I certainly will jump in like I did the previous thing then I have some notes for next thing. Um so if that's okay with I prefer to do
it that way but I will weigh in on on things that we feel >> need to be addressed or at least mentioned. >> Yes. And in your email, you you wanted to schedule a perhaps even an executive session, correct? Because with all the council members present so that we could go over this. So So uh we know that you
want to do that. We just couldn't get it done, you know, the same week we had another executive session. So we will work on getting that done as quickly as possible. And I think we also want to uh my understanding was that we were going to give you our comments to your draft
>> for your consideration. >> That's correct. Um and so we need to do that quickly and and see if we can schedule something for next week. >> And that's why council president um we believe it's a it's a working breathing document because there's going to be some back and forth on this and this why it's only a draft because there's going
to be additions, deletions, and some more recommendations coming out of it as well as we go along in the process. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, did you want to add to this? >> I just want to say that's fine given um Mr. Charles um you know deliberation of
this. Yeah. Whatever he thinks is best, you know, I'm totally in agreement. Council, Council President, if I may, um, as we said before, if there needs to be a change, whether you need to vote again or reduce an item, raise an item
based off of the presentation by the CBAB, you know, we can do that because ultimately we have to vote on an amendment in September. So, you know, however many votes you need to do to get to that
point, you know, you you can do. So, even if we vote on the township clerk now to not change anything and you speak to the CBAB and the recommendation is to reduce the overtime $1,000, you know, we can always go back and and and vote
again because I need you all to vote on the amendment and if you're not going to be happy with the amendment, we're never going to move forward. So, um, again, just as I said with the introduced budget, don't feel locked in to these votes. As much as I pains me to say that
we can revisit these things, you obviously can revisit these things because again, you're going to vote in a public meeting on the amendment. Um, so I want everyone to be comfortable with the numbers before we prepare that amendment and vote. And hopefully,
um, you know, hopefully that we vote in the affirmative on the amendment. So, um, again, if you want to hear the CBA out and it leads to changes to things we talk about tonight, that's fine. >> Okay. Thank you. So, we are back to uh,
Mr. Tinex on behalf offer on behalf of the administration to reduce the proposed overtime budget by $1,000. Do >> I'll make a motion. >> Okay. Second. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Councilwoman
Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> And I thank you for your consideration. Motion carried. Yeah, that's
the healthy debate. >> I apologize for the delay as I write my notes. >> Yes, >> no problem. >> To page 21. This is the township clerk. Um, other expenses. As I understand, we didn't have any
changes because this budget is the large majority of it is municipal elections. Um, and the total ask for this year is $ 38,142.14. Um, >> right. That went up from
>> Yeah, it goes up every year. >> No, from the first budget, but >> Oh, yeah. >> But that's what you need. It went up from 2024. Yeah, correct. Um >> I believe after I showed you the invoice,
>> the Yeah, the election time. >> Yeah, it it goes up every year. So, >> postage goes up, you know, that everything's included in that. So, >> um So, is there cons uh all in favor? >> I I
>> Any opposed? Okay, we're not doing the next page. We are skipping page 22 >> and we are skipping page 23. >> Okay. Um, why are we skipping them? I
was just about to say the we also skipped it at a previous these two pages at a previous meeting of workshop and we did that under the advice of uh legal advice of our councils involved with the litigation uh between the mayor and the
council that we wanted to make sure that we address this at the appropriate time. So we will address this at the appropriate time. It's just not uh tonight. So we are moving to page 24.
This is the planning board. Um this is the big change that we had here is we removed the line item for planning and economic development coordinator of $125,000. Um, so our original ask was $138,74256
and the introduced budget amount was $13,74256. Again, the the big change was we removed uh the sub account for planning and economic development coordinator related to uh the hiring of a full-time professional planner.
>> Excuse council president. >> Yes, please. Sorry. >> So, so that means next year when you do the budget, this line won't even be on this page. >> It won't even be there. Right. >> Perfect. >> Right. >> And why? And I was a little confused. I don't Well, again, you weren't here when
we did this. I don't understand why it got put with the planning board. Um but >> yeah, I don't know why it was in that section and not in the other planning um
account, but >> that that's that's where it originally lived and um so we we we kept it there. Um, >> the other the other note I had was material and supplies on that page,
>> but I don't know where that conversation went. Did we actually >> Yeah, we did talk about that. >> I have I have them. >> Yeah. Okay, >> Councilwoman. >> Okay, >> you're all council women. Sorry. >> Okay. Um I have I have a note for court
reporter that we reduced it to 2,000 and for materials and supplies we reduced it to 2500. So that's taking off another 400. Yeah, I have I have court reporter circle but I don't have a number there.
I'm waiting for Mr. Tinak to finish his uh his note takingaking and then I think he's going to come up to us with some revised number. >> Um I I just also want to just review the conferences. How much has been spent from for conferences to date?
>> I don't have year-to- date figures for today >> because there was nothing paid in 2024. And then the budget request came in the same. So if that has not been spent, I would I would zero that out. >> Sure.
>> Yeah. >> The only thing is the league cover. >> You're voting. So it's it's up to you. >> The league league doesn't come under planning board. >> Okay. >> So I would I would remove 36 from that budget as well.
If I may, I just I don't remember the um the director saying that some of the conferences she actually does on her own. I just don't remember if this is for the training for some of her staff. I just don't recall that. >> I I remember her saying that too, but
but this there was nothing spent in 2024. >> Okay. I just want to make sure I believe that's what the director said. Well, again, can you take as a to-do to go back to her and and and just see if that's okay? Because again, we can change this in the future. At least
consider changing. >> I'll check with her, but I just want to make sure. I'm pretty sure she said she takes care of them on her own, but I want to clarify that the rest. >> So, the proposal is to reduce the budget by $8,54822 for a new recommended amount of
$5,194.34. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that number? >> So, the proposal is to reduce the budget by 8,000 54822 giving us a new recommended budget total of $5,194.34.
>> Thank you. Oh, got it. Okay. Okay. 616. >> Okay. Do I hear a motion for those reductions? >> I make a motion. >> Okay. >> I'll second. >> Thank you.
S. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. Council President Kovia. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. Now we move to page 25. The board of adjustment.
The recommended budget is $4,8278. The introduced budget, excuse me, is $4,8278. >> Any thoughts by anybody? >> Yeah. Um, this came in in the review on from the budget advisory. Everybody here, every
every department that we go through purchases their own office supplies. Is there any way to centralize this so that there's one purchasing person and that the staff here can just go into a utility closet and and take supplies?
>> We do have some of that. We do some centralized supply purchasing from the QPA. And we have a in the hallway here, we have a a cabinet with some supplies. We have supplies downstairs. Um, but then individual departments will buy
some things on their own, whether it's binders or folders or but we keep very general basic supplies like up here and and downstairs. >> Okay. So, the only thing I would like to do is to reduce this by $500 in terms of
the office supplies. I saw ordering for um supplies that that you know three- ring punchers and staples staplers in our last um bill round and it just seems like there's excessive purchasing.
I used my three ring puncher almost every day. >> But do you have you ordered a new one recently? >> No. Been there. There were there were several that were ordered in. >> They probably saw mine and wanted rain. >> What would be the administration's uh feeling about that? Or not feeling, but
what's your >> That's fine. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, where what line is that coming out of? >> Comes 110. >> Mhm. Any further discussion?
>> Okay. So, that's 25. All right. Is there a motion for that reduction? >> Let's get the numbers. >> Yeah, madam. Clair. Sorry. >> No, no, it's fine. Um, so proposing a reduction of $500 to the office supplies sub account for a new total of $4,000
$3278. Okay. >> Okay. Now you can go, madam clerk. >> Thank you. Is there a motion for the reduction of the $500? So moved. >> Second. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Kovia, >> yes. >> The motion carries. Council President, real quick, I I was speaking to the um the director. So, those health positions we spoke about, those are the actual drivers. I I forgot that they were under the health
department. So they are the part-time drivers that we were asked earlier that started on Monday. They're the they're the and they started on Monday with the train with the for the buses and the jippies and they will be used on a on a basis of on a need >> perm yeah they may never work. Um
>> right >> it's a just driver pool mentioned the fact that it was mentioned under health it's you know legitly service runs under the health department. Now we're >> sorry >> page 26. >> Page 26. Support for commissions. So the
introduced budget amount is $81,7742. >> All right. I have notes on here that >> Hold on just a second. Council Castle had has the floor. >> Um I I just want to >> and then we'll come to you. >> You go. >> And I have my hand up too. So, so in regards to downtown the main street
contribution, that is all like so confusing. Um, mainly because there was 20,000 that a check was written in 20 >> like it's all all a me that's a different sub account. Yeah.
>> Okay. I'm trying to differentiate because I you know, Miss Brill did her budget presentation with us at the end of the year. I know she uses all the money. So this is where all the confusion comes because some was a sit assessment that came out was was the sit
assessment marked here? >> No sit assessment is is a separate levy. It's never been in the OE. Um because it doesn't come from the taxpayer. Yeah. >> So why is there a deficiency here with with the 1900 versus the 26? Is that the
money that she didn't get last year? So it didn't get spent last year. she got in Janu because I know >> there's there's a separate line item for $20,000 um >> in the rec budget >> in a yeah different budget. Then there's
the Main Street contribution which is direct money and then the Main Street expense is supposed to pay for expenses for Main Street. Um, that's the 090. >> That's not a direct contribution.
>> But she didn't get a check. Like there was a piece of money that wasn't >> she got the 20 she got the she got the 20,000 in 2025 against the 2024 operation. That's >> put it here. >> And it's in it's in a different line,
but yeah, she got it in the beginning of 2025. Yeah. >> Think it wasn't spent because it wasn't received. >> It's it's spent. It's just it was paid out in 25 against the 24 line item. >> It didn't get paid in 2020. It was supposed to get paid. That's why she
didn't spend in 2024. >> Okay. >> But she she needs it. So, I just wanted to note that to my colleagues. I know we had this conversation. So, I just don't want them to no one to think that the money isn't needed because it doesn't reflect that it was spent wasn't spent because it didn't get received to after
that 2024 date. Are you are you done? >> I am done. I I'll let everyone else speak, but I do have other notes. >> Mr. Charles, you're at the end of the line. Sorry. >> Okay. I took quite a council >> Ruden. Okay. I I have I have notes here
that we we said to um to to cut the human relations commission. >> Yeah. >> That and the historic preservation. I have notes that that is covered by a grant. Um, also the public information OEE to
cut that and and I'm also going to request that the West Orange Environmental Commission certainly doesn't need anything more than the what was spent last year. I'm not if you could tell me what was spent this year. So all of that to go.
>> We haven't spent anything. >> Okay. So I don't think you need anything for that commission. So, I would zero that out. That's And then the others are zeroed out because they have grants.
>> Don't they do Earth Hour? And they do have some events. I mean, I wouldn't want to give them no money. >> We were told that they have grants. I mean, that's I'm just I'm just reading from my notes. >> Yeah. >> If I mean, they did do a couple of events. It's like you got to give them
something like 500 bucks at least. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman, I'm sorry. Oh, >> Counciloman Ruden has the floor. >> Okay. I I'm going Sorry. Sorry. >> You got to come after Carl. >> I'm sorry. >> So, >> so >> and Councilwoman Scarpa is next, but
Council Ruden has the floor. >> Closer. >> Um, all right. So, ju just to make the notes that we previously made, plus I'm adding in the West Orange Environmental Commission does not seem to need any money. They have free events and they
meet here. Um, the Human Relations Commission, um, $500. The Historic Preservation, we previously discussed that is covered by a grant. The West Orange Arts Council maintained their
2500 even though I must say that they do have 40,000 in the bank. Um the PIO that's not needed. Rent leveling not needed and debt for the rest.
>> Um just to go back to human relations, you want to leave them with $500, >> correct? >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden, are you done? >> I'm done. I'm done. Great. Thank you. Councilwoman Scarpa, thanks for your patience. >> Yes. Yeah. As I had um emailed to Mr.
Datiniac, I would like as much of this cut as possible, and I'd like more scrutiny. I mean, I they should these kinds of um expenditures should be for what they really need only. Maybe there should be a fund that they would come to the mayor for. Like the West Orange Arts
Council, what are they getting two thou over $2,000 for? They have a bank account with $40,000 in it. Um, you know, what does the rent leveling board need the money for? I want to understand exactly what they need the money for. And the main street as well. I want to
know exactly what they're doing with the money. And I'd like more scrutiny. I think most of this could be cut. Councilwoman Scarper, are you done? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Charles. >> Thank you, Council President. Uh, on behalf of the board, we just wanted to
know what exactly the commissions were using the money for. That that was our question. >> When you say conditions, what >> commissions? Commission. Okay. Sorry. >> So, are there particular commissions that you want to get uh further defined?
um the environmental commission which I guess now we're talking about uh reducing that human relations the historic those are the top three that >> okay
>> Mr. Maldo I guess you know some of these are are in our code so there there are ordinances for them but >> I can tell you the rent leveling we can we can eliminate that completely good that's that's run through our section 8 office so and through me so we can that
$75 we could take that that's not a >> that's not a heavy lift so let's remove that >> um the public information we I don't know how much we actually use out of that but >> nothing >> nothing so nothing.
>> We can eliminate the the public information if need be. >> Um >> the Arctic Council we talked about before that's that's a discussion we were having anyway. So um and just so everybody knows I I spoke to the council president earlier today. We're looking
to set up a meeting sometime next week with the arts council. Um and we're going to invite members of the council to participate once I have the dates. I'll let you know. So because it is a hot topic right now. So, we're gonna So, I spoke with the president um the other day and then we're texting today about
trying to secure some dates to meet. So, um I don't know where you want to leave that off, but we are going to have discussions. >> Okay. >> The rest of them u I defer to the council for whatever their pleasure is. >> I'd like to get rid of Oh, sorry,
>> Mr. Charles. Did that get you the information? I thought you wanted a description of the what the uh the commissions actually do. Is that what you were looking for? Not exactly what the commissions do. What do they use the money for? Right. >> Okay. >> And I want the same.
>> We'll have to reach out to them and find out. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Castellino. >> Okay. So, I could speak to the two commissions that I'm a part of. First of all, downtown West Orange has to present a report by ordinance in uh December uh
first reading and then in uh January. and Miss Brill invites every one of uh the council members to come and go over her budget line by line by line. So that's number one. She could also prepare uh she could also go over her
report with the uh commission if if you choose wish for her to come and explain her budget. Um but primarily that budget uh um um much of it uh years ago why the town contributes so much is because
um a lot of the activities that Miss Brill's committee oversees used to be over uh um oversaw by the uh township and this goes back to maybe McKan's days
in office where some of those respons responsibilities. They wanted shift it to the downtown director long before Miss Brill was a director. So, she I think it would be good for her to bring her report to your commission if you would prefer that. Um, in regards to the
public relations commission, we've done the real openhouse we do every other year. We didn't do this year. This year we're we're due to have it. You know, every year, you know, we we they don't spend I don't being the liaison to the commission. We we just don't have events
just for the sake of having events. It's it's when events seem to be needed to get good information, public information to um to um the realators because they request it constantly. And so we host that at Liberty Middle School. We uh
partner with school district and we have a nice presentation for the real litters in the town. We do it every other year. Uh we've always been wanting to work on a commercial rail litter openhouse and uh we also uh host restaurant week which some of the funds go towards the
website. We partner with the downtown alliance on that event and um so again you know minimal money there. uh we spent 5.95 uh two years ago. Our and that's why it
was decided this year to leave in the 595 because we're due to have those events in um to start working on those events in the fall. Um also the World Cup is coming to New Jersey. We were hoping to do something
for the World Cup. um Revolution New Jersey um 250 where the state wants us to promote um the nation's 250th birthday. So again, those kind of events whether you know the commission or you
know my colleagues feel they're important to the town. Um but I think these are minimal uh that commission has minimal uh money in its account already. So I was hoping it to leave there. Um arts council. So again, so this these other commissions, I think it should all
be a play a fair playing field. Um I don't know what human relation human relations uh spends their funds on. Maybe guest speakers I've heard in the past. Um and then I'm just confused with historic preservation. So they did receive the grant. So they get a full
$5,500 grant each year. Is that how that works? >> It's usually done every other year. >> Every other year. >> That's why it goes up and down and up and down. Okay. So, they're whatever they have in their line item is supplemented by their
grant. >> Uh I I I don't know. I've just been liaison. This year, I was not involved. The previous years that I was involved as liaison. The uh historic preservation commission was very attentive to
developing a budget in the previous year for the following year and it was reviewed and voted on by by the membership and then forwarded to uh the administration and that's how everyone would know what the historic
preservation commission wanted to spend and why it wanted to spend you. It was both uh a spreadsheet and a narrative. So, as long as I'm talking about I don't have to double it. But I think we should institute this and I would offer it out to my colleagues. Anybody, any of these
commissions that want money need to go through the budgeting process the year before. >> Yeah. >> Come up with a spreadsheet and come up with a narrative to justify it just like a lot of the >> departments do now. And if they don't do that, then
>> too bad because uh uh I know Councilwoman Scarpa has suggested let's just give the money to the mayor and and he or she can can decide. I'm not sure that gives us us the council uh sufficient uh control as part of our
responsibilities for the the financial health of the of the township. Uh but I think the budget process is a much better way to go forward. Uh, so I just want to throw that out. We don't have to talk about it now because I know Councilwoman Scarpa has been very patient. She wants to speak again. So,
Councilwoman Scarpa, please. >> Yeah. I just think that, you know, we're going into the fourth quarter. Most of this is unnecessary for this year. I want to just make sure we cut out as much as we can without doing any harm to any organization.
>> Yeah. And part of the problem uh I agree with you, but part of the problem is we don't know. We don't know because as far as I know they haven't >> participated in the budget process. We have no reason we have no way to know what they're looking for and except if uh we have a we have a leaison here who
is very attentive to it. >> Well, we need to find out ASAP. Perhaps we go out to them and ask what first we need to know what they've spent and then we need to know what they've got planned for the fourth quarter and then most of this can be cut. >> Yeah. And that's perhaps something we
can do uh further down the line before we adopt the budget. >> Um but I think the council should seriously consider uh putting in a budgeting process from from the prior year to the year to the budget year and we need to put it in the
ordinances uh for into the code for the ordinances that that uh create these these entities so that they know that that's a responsibility they have to take on. I agree. >> Um, >> absolutely. >> Maybe tonight is not the time. >> Yeah.
>> Not not the time to do it. So, I I'm I'm really at a loss as to how much money we should leave >> we should leave in here. Uh, because we have >> Can we find out Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. No, you have the floor, Councilwoman. >> Yeah. Can we find out how much they've spent? I mean, like, go out to each one
and find out what they've spent and if they need any money for anything else and cut everything else because there's significant savings here. Yes, that's certainly possible. I think Councilwoman SC uh Councilwoman Ruden had the floor. >> Just very quickly, I like your idea. I
also think there are other groups here that feel that it's unfair that Yeah. >> like like the senior gardeners, they get nothing. They provide a tremendous service. You know, that if there are boards um and groups, they should all have an opportunity to present their request to the council. So, I very much
like your idea. >> Agree. An older adults advisory board has no budget and they're doing fabulous work. >> I'm sorry. Who is that? >> The older adults. The older adults advisory board. >> Oh, the older adults. Okay. Um Mr.
Charles, you had your hand up next, please. >> Thank you, Council President. uh from the boards and the advisory board we would certainly support. I think that's a great uh practice of having maybe the chairperson or the vice chair or even members of the commission come here and
actually ask for and tell them what what they need the money for, right? And or at least explain to the administration and maybe administration on their behalf. But I we would definitely support the process of having them come just like you do the department directors um and have them come here and say, "Listen, we're in need." And it may
be each year that the money is the same. It may be less each year, maybe more. But if they can justify it, certainly um I think that's something for them to be here for. >> Councilwoman, >> and just real quick, Councilwoman Scarpa, I just want to remind you. So, so yes, they're doing a great job at the
senior advisory board, but also any ideas, you know, are, you know, are given to Miss Van Dyke and carried out through her budget, her budget. So, you know, they have that benefit. Not all all of the boards have that benefit. Now, the the uh public relations
commission, they could go through the township administration. And I mean, it's very, you know, small monies there. Uh for the sake of this year, we have $5.95. I would think uh they would need no more than $300 to get through the end of the
year if you want to deduct that. Um, but you know, because I don't know what the website uh cost is off the top of my head and we'll have to get that uh renewed for um uh I guess in by November. I I'll find
that out unless it could wait till next year, but that's minimal. But as far as the downtown goes, for example, um again, Miss Bill gives you a report. um they just um landscaped quickly uh parking lot which is a township property
in the downtown paid for that to get done. So those are the kind of projects. So with the downtown I'm going to recommend do not touch their funding because it's all accounted for. Um but that's >> I want to know what's been spent though to date. >> Councilwoman Scarpa.
>> Okay. >> Please raise your hand and be recognized. >> That's great. council woman, but when Miss Brol asks you to come in and go over everything, you need to sit there and go over it because that's what gets me frustrated uh with last last year, you know, she invites everybody in to go
over everything and because it is complicated what all the items that and the task she does do for the township. So maybe when if Mr. Charles wants her to present to the group, make yourself available to to go then so she doesn't have to go over it twice. But ju I'm
just giving you an example. If you go uh go by um the parking lot in um the the other municipal lot uh butterfly uh the butterfly alley Edison alley that the town just did the mural
>> Gordon Hans parking lot. >> Yeah, that's right. And what a nice job that our Monet did um with that gorgeous moral and um and the butterflies on top. So, I mean, you could see the lot the tangible benefits uh of the downtown
projects. So, again, information's there. So, more than happy to get it to you, >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yeah. Can we reach out quickly to each of these groups and find out what they've spent to date just like we've
done with all the other departments? >> I think that question may be directed to Mr. SM and Mr. Mr. Tiniac. >> Yes. Whoever's responsible, >> we can reach out to them. >> Okay. >> Okay. Great. >> Sounds good. Councilwoman Ruden,
>> I'd like to make a motion just to wrap this page up and um to zero out all of the budgets except for um the downtown because we did we did hear a presentation. The entire council heard a presentation
um and we did approve it and I think we need to stick with that and the rest we don't know and we can adjust back in if we hear that they have spent money. >> That's a good idea. I'd second that. >> I could live with that as long Yeah. The
downtown's already spent. So yeah. >> Okay. Do you want to hear the numbers before we go? >> Yes. that the number would be a decrease to 67509. That's a 17.38% decrease. >> Well,
>> yeah. >> However, I don't very efficient. >> Do you still have >> I'm done. >> So, I I the only issue you have with that is well, I guess Mr. to could find out what was already spent in each of
those accounts, >> then we'll put it back in. >> Okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. >> So, the proposal is a reduction of $14,19842 for a new budget amount of $67,59. >> I'll second.
>> Nope. Um, >> that was no motion. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry about that. You got You got to finish up your therapy and get back here. You're Mr. D. >> It's so hard with this hand raising thing. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude.
>> I know. I know. I know you can't sit here. >> Council President, do you second that motion from Councilwoman Ruden? >> I did not second it. >> Oh, so it was Councilwoman Scarpa. Okay. Thank you. Uh, now the vote. Councilwoman Castle. >> Yes. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. And we need to take as a to-do as a council to decide if this is a good policy to follow. And we need to go through and insert the budget process.
They look at it at the previous year and prepare their budget that would then be presented for the following uh spend year. and then also provide that written materials to the administration and the council and then come before the council
and defend it if they want to sound sound like a plan. I mean not tonight >> with one with one caveat that you got to give them a limit because some I find with some of the and and it's great people are ambitious and they want to do a lot of uh activities and this is the
one thing I always preach at the PRC is you know and even at the downtown you have to look at your how many people came to an event like you have to we got to give limits too so otherwise they'll just be asking for X and you got to let them know what the the maximum is.
>> That's what I was trying to get at. I wanted it to be better managed. >> Okay, good. >> Okay, we're moving on to page 27. This should be very easy. Um the budget request of 1,269, $900
um was reallocated to the um the line item with the garbage contract. Uh I forget the meeting. We June 9th we talked about this. Um it's a more accurate uh description for what this
money is used for. It's part of the garbage contract. Um so you you will see it when we get to the garbage uh line item. This 1,26900 U moving over there. So um there really is zero dollars on this page. I it's
it's sitting in a it's part of the the garbage contract line item. So I I I think we can vote consent on this one. >> Sign up. >> Hold on. Hold on. >> Councilwoman Scarpa has the floor as soon as Mr. T. >> No, I'm sorry. I'm good. I'm done.
>> Okay. Councilwoman Roode. >> Um just to just to review, this was a quite a substantial increase from last year, >> right? Well, the the garbage contract is a substantial increase. Yeah, >> your fiveyear contract.
>> And this contract is is good until when? >> It's five years. So, >> and we're in what year? >> We sort of just finishing up year one. >> Yeah, >> we may never have a chance to have influence over it
>> just to just weren't involved with that. But that was the most There was four choices to select from the one that they selected last year. last year's council was the one that was that had the most cost to it. >> And is this based on the actual tonnage that they pick up?
>> This is based on the contract that they they propose I don't know this what they charge. >> So the the way the garbage contract works is that we pay contractually for the pickup and then when it gets brought to the transfer station, we pay for
however much garbage is dropped off. So the contractual part of it is is the hauler coming out with the trucks and and the guys and gals on the truck and picking everything up and having twice a week garbage and all that. Um but then we have to pay separately for the
tonnage. >> So >> okay, I'm done. >> Counciloman, >> I just want to add to that just so Councilman understands too. So, we came off a fiveyear five-year contract, um, which we benefited from because we
did have a five-year contract when the rates were much lower. And so, as the rates increased the past couple years, we were already locked in at the lower rate and then unfortunately when we had to redo the contract there, it was just ridiculous. Plus, it was
well, you you were in the audience then seeing what we went through with picking the more the more expensive plan. So, >> there's less competition out there. There's consolidation in the waste management companies. Um, so you're getting less bids, they're higher, their
costs are higher. Um, you know, the cost to buy the trucks. Um, with interest rates being higher, cost them more money to buy the trucks, labor's higher, so >> ridiculous workers compensation insurance. >> One of the benefits we have from the previous contract that was approved, I
think it was 2019, it was precoid, and we locked in the fuel cost. >> Yeah. >> And that was significant savings. So, the portion of 2024, it was passed on. That was that was a huge we got locked in when a lot of other municipalities
didn't get locked in. Um, so they saw a significant increase before we disable. >> Yes. >> So can I make a motion? Well, I can. Is there any any So all in favor? >> Just I just wonder do we even need to we need to vote if we're just trying
>> I mean it's dollars but I don't know being my first time I figure let's just do it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that's probably it. >> Right. All in favor. >> Any opposed? Okay, it is approved.
>> Moving on to page 28. Our municipal court salary and wages. Um, the total salary and wage request is $431,5957. Um, obviously, uh, if you're looking at home, you know,
we have, um, uh, Judge Dow on here who has passed away. Um, and, uh, you know, sympathies to his family. Um, we're maintaining the salary on there
because we have to fill in his uh his court dates. Um, so uh, honorable Judge Don Donahghue is filling in for Judge Dow and um, so we're essentially
paying Judge Donahue the same salary because she's doing twice the work now. So, um there's we can't cut from from this budget because Judge Donahghue is doing that work. Um thankfully for us,
>> are we bringing in other other judges to uh fill in or it's just uh >> it's just Judge Donahghue. Yeah, she's doubled her workload. We had we had some judges fill in during the time to meet when the judge was ill,
but um it was easier for us to at this point just to um speak with Judge Don, you graciously accepted it and stepping up to do the the case load. So, and then and we're we're doing that through at least the end of the year and then we'll be readjust. We'll reexamine at that
point to see how she's making up. You know, this may may be a burden on her. We don't know. what she has agreed to handle till the end of the year. >> So, just to follow up and then we'll get to Mr. Charles. So, we're not looking to replace uh that
position at at this time. >> At this moment, no. Doesn't mean that in the in the fall. Again, like I said, we're going to we're going to re-evaluate. Judge Donah, who just started, I believe was July 8th with this double schedule. Um, and she, like
I said, she stepped up to help us out and at some point we're going to have to re-examine that because we're we're doing this till December 31st. That's what we've agreed to with her to do or thereabouts whenever the courts close with the holidays and then at some point in the fall we're going to have to
reexamine on what's the best way to move forward. >> Okay. Please just keep the uh council involved in that. Thank you, Mr. Charles. >> Thank you, Mr. I I just had a a quick question or wondering is that solely a administration decision or is the AOC
why you know that Pete uh as far as the the judges >> as far as the judge it's my belief that this is of an appointment from the mayor what I think of believe I believe it needs appointment approval from >> from the that's all and I think the council too >> and the council yes
>> yes counciloman >> so just just my concern because I know this summertime and I really appreciate her stepping up because it's very hard when we lo lose such a valued uh staff member. Um and judge was God bless him
was was so great. Um but I know case loads are a little lighter in the summer and I >> No. Okay. I know. No. I just don't want it to be worse. >> Yeah. Okay. Oh, no. All right. >> I just don't want it to be worse for her
in September. And then then we also have police department cases and you know all that stuff. So >> all right. I just don't want her to be like just speaking to her. We and >> we we we we had that discussion and she
said that's why she agreed to do it. It's going to be I forget what hour it's she's adding another case load a week for the next 20 weeks >> and it's not whatever whatever the time frame is left. >> It's not just the the the daytime case load. Our judges are available 24/7.
There's an on call for the judge. Yeah. So if you know the West Orange PD, >> I mean, you know, people >> needs a warrant or something at 3 in the morning. Um >> Well, well, mainly the the benefit of having two people is to, you know,
somebody goes on vacation, somebody's sick. I mean, you have somebody fill in. You have no backup here. We we have on call like in the case when the when the when the judge was sick, we we had a couple judges come in from other municipalities help do a fill in. They
the the um the court cler administrator, she'll be able to um help fill it out when there's there's going to be issues. We know ahead of time. They they don't just schedule and then something happens. So the they're they're they're maintaining the control of the court right now based on what the current conditions are. Like I said, we're going
to reassess it after the summer and into the fall to see what the next step is going. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just don't It's a lot >> for her. >> Yes. >> Or anyone. >> So, if we're not changing this page, do we need to vote still? >> Consent. Conent.
>> Consent. >> All in favor? >> I. Any >> I >> Okay, we're good. All right. Now moving to page 29, municipal court other expenses. Um the budget request is 29,000. I mean
the introduced budget is $29,28.72. I know we talked this one to death last time, right? So, >> did we come to any decision? I I can't recall, but you can see from last year that uh they spent 66% of their budget. So,
>> yeah, she she said she had an order was going to have to order more tickets. >> Yeah. More ticket books and >> Yeah, that's why it's not a it wasn't spent because she was ordering them. Okay. >> So, are we good with this? Are we ready to move to consent?
>> Unless there's anything from the budget committee. >> No, there is. Okay. >> Um, all in favor? >> I >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay, we can move on. Page 30, the public defender. The budget
request this year is for $22,750. >> What has been spent? >> I don't have the year-to- date spends in front of me. I I apologize. >> Had a question mark there. So, I maybe we're supposed to get that or >> I'm not clear why it's increased.
>> This was the request of the municipal court. It's also based on what's available in the trust. So I think that's why she requested more in the appropriation because there's less money available in the trust.
>> Uh would either of you know why the the basically 25% increase in the request based uh compared to spend last year why that happened? >> I don't I don't Yeah. Could you take that please? Uh Mr. Char will take that as a due and come
back with us at the next uh >> uh I guess we'll have to have another budget hearings budget workshop. So we'll discuss that at that time. >> Mr. Charles just the advisory board had the same had the same questions. We want to know what the year to date would
spend as far as uh the this year so far. >> Okay. >> Can can I >> Sure. I'd like to make a motion to um bring it down to what was paid last year and then if there is good reason to change it then we'll change it back.
>> Uh >> the only problem with that councilwoman is you need four votes to go up. So just just let's table it. Yeah. So let's just table it now one of us in case one of us isn't here for a budget meeting because I may be in Alaska or somewhere. So
>> you're going on the last >> just in case you may not have >> Are you a hunter? >> Yes. >> Are you really? >> No. >> Oh. >> Oh, >> that's funny. >> We don't need a motion to table, do we? >> No, because we didn't table the other
ones we didn't review. So, we'll just skip this section and we'll have a note. >> Making a note on to go back to page 30. Correct. Yeah, >> an extra deis. >> And we're missing two ethal. That's
that's a problem. >> We're skipping page 31 and moving on to page 32. This is the business administrator other expense line item. The original proposal was $179,640.74. The uh at the July 14th meeting um we
came up with cuts in the amount of $29,955.74 uh for a new total um which was introduced of $148,485. >> Good work. Okay. I still don't understand what the
advertising is for in this department and there used to be two line items for advertising but now there's one. >> So as per your request we reduced um 030 um we zeroed it out and um we made uh
031 1,750. Can you tell me what what's you what that is used for for advertising in that department in the business administration department? >> It's probably for um job postings for the league of municipalities website if
we're you know looking to hire someone. We utilize the league. Um I don't know what other >> that seems very high just for a job posting at at the league. >> Well, it's like a hundred bucks a posting. So >> yeah. Is it for the meetings too?
>> Well, they did a lot of hiring. >> A lot of hiring. >> Yeah. Well, I think that that that should be looked at. Does it seems like a lot. >> And what is the communications officer for? Oh, that's that's um
>> some guy >> some guy who I don't know. >> All right. I I keep forgetting that Thunder that >> and the subscriptions went down. holding up, >> but I'm still not understanding why it's even that high.
>> And then the the town township employee education. >> Mhm. >> I think we need to know what's what's real. >> They used only $10,000 and they still got 17,000. That's >> So the the introduced amount was for
15,700, >> right? I still think that I still think that's high. >> We can get your breakdown, but that that is for employee training and we we talked about last time how we're doing a succession planning and training our staff um in going to courses and things
of that nature and all that comes through the administration. So whether it be let's say in Kazinsk's case or any other department other than the public safety, this is doesn't cover public safety. They're on their own. they have their role mechanisms of spending money for for training and things of that
nature. So, so it's uh we have a young staff and we're sending them out for different types of training. >> Well, even continued education. >> Continue and continue education. >> I mean, yeah. >> But there there seem to be almost four different categories that that cover either advertising, marketing, PR, and
why are they not all together? And why don't we see that? Um, finally, the the township physician, that's not the salary that we pay for the township physician. >> The township physician, it's that's that is to do things such as physicals
and things of that nature. And remember, the township physician is also our medical director. He he provides all the services to um getting people employed. It's pre-employment screenings and things of that nature. >> I understand, but he has a contract and that's not his contracted rate if I'm
correct. No, this is this is the OE. This is just this is the contract. He has a contract to write as the medical director. This is for the examinations and things of that nature. Pays for other things. >> So contracts. >> No, this is the O and this is the township physician line items.
>> This is this is not his contract. That is the monies that we spend for physicals. It I think it's labeled as a township position, but this does this is not this is not a salary. No, but I'm not understanding that because we
he has a contracted rate for for being the township physician and he does the physicals. He's supposed to do the physicals for >> right. But the new hires, >> it doesn't include all the the lab work and stuff. He does. That's the appointments. The lab works is is in
addition to that, >> right? So, we should break that out and see we if we're this is this is actually a contracted rate for him and then whatever else is for, >> you know, outside of that. >> We can break it. We'll look to >> Okay. So, I
um >> Do you want to go back to this page? >> I do want to go back to this page because I I'm not understanding why there's a marketing campaign in the business administration. Uh a separate advertising >> campaign. >> Yeah. um why I don't understand the the
calculator and miscellaneous and I think we we did discuss all of this. So I'd like to see some changes in here. This is still a very high budget for one office that has three people in
it. Well, I guess you'd say five. So is the is the determination of the council that we come back to this at the next workshop >> and you will come back to us with individual line items and year-to- date spending
>> and if there is any anything councilman Ruden that you want specific information about may perhaps you could just send an email to Mr. Smaldo and uh uh and move forward that way. says something like a plan. >> It's a plan. >> Councilwoman Scarba.
>> No, that sounds good. That's I'm covered. I just wanted it broken down. >> Okay. Counciloman Castelino and Charles, you're next. >> So, for someone who um helps out with the PR uh well, not recently, but with
the you know, on the township side and trying to assist. I know the I wasn't involved in it, but I know we have the new website. Is that included in any fees in here or is that all under >> No, actually with the new website's uh
budget. >> Yeah, the new website didn't cost us anything um because as part of the contract, we get like a new upgrade every few years >> um for free. So, there were no additional costs for the website design, which is great. And then going back
wearing my downtown hat, we had received the marketing grant and through the marketing grant because part of the contribution some of the activities that downtown performed for the township there were there was a lot of marketing
um expenses townwide that um downtown absorbed. So, I am curious to see what the marketing campaign I thought we were going to have that. I know we're doing a lot, so this isn't a knock on anybody, but we really I like we requested last time. I really like to
know what the PR and the marketing campaign what what that's going to >> We'll just analyze the whole page. We'll give you a breakdown of the whole page instead of going line item. >> Yeah. And I don't want to take a lot of time. Just give you a break. >> So, you don't need an email from me. >> I'll just break down the whole Okay.
Awesome. >> Unless you have something specific you want. I'll just break down. >> So I'm going to write 30 >> category. Very unclear. >> And I I just want to make one. We just increased the the salary for millennia for our grant writer.
>> And is this reflective of the actual increase and is that prorated because we just increased it? >> We we decreased it 10,000. >> Yeah. we wanted more >> and then you didn't want 75, you cut it
10. Um, >> that one now she now she she now has two different roles for for the township. So, does this does this reflect the actual amount that she will earn this year? >> Is it >> this is all they're going to get? Yeah.
Yeah. Because I I think it projected out to be more, but this is all that they're going to get. I've already shared that with them. they the 65 they can't go over that >> and she makes us money so I don't want to fantast
>> but but we added additional administrative more management >> grant management roles to make sure that not just getting the grants but seeing it through through to the end >> um that's what we added but I you know
I've shared I said listen the budget is 65. So towards the end of the year, if we're getting into a situation where, you know, they're going to project out more billable hours, then, you know, we're going to just revert back to
the standard contract of getting the grants and and and doing that part of it. So they understand that. >> Okay. All right. >> So, we're not going to vote on this. We just move to the next page. >> Yeah. I'm going to make I made a note. >> Let me just
>> Oh, Mr. Charles, I'm sorry. I missed your >> That's okay. C my question and the board's surrounded the uh the grant consultant. So, we wanted to know what was it Millenn Millennium Strategy? Is that the the group that has the >> correct? It's a yearly contract. Is that
something that goes out >> professional service contract? It only could be one year. Yeah. >> Okay. And the contract is it is it incentive based or is it strictly the the fee fee based? >> Just fee based not incentive based. >> So yeah >> they have a minimum standard of new
>> new money >> revenue that they bring in that they have to meet every year. Uh so for example if they get a grant and it repeats three years they don't get they don't get credit past that first year. They got to find something new. So that's the standard okay >> that they have to meet. But there's no
other there's not really an incentive in terms of additional uh revenue. >> Thank you. >> And also their salary was increased because um we were not tracking the grants well and and they now have
another function. >> Yeah. >> Grants man grants >> grants management. It's a component that we we did we hired to help >> right to help oversee because sometimes things get lost. you apply for it and then five years later you forgot you applied for it. >> That's correct.
>> Good spending, it's more difficult to get the money from the agencies. So, >> okay. Uh, next, Mr. Diniac, next page. I guess >> um so this is central purchasing. Uh,
the ask is $197,62. Um you'll note that uh we have some proration because we had a change over in personnel. Um there's it's just pays pay in this uh
in this particular line item. >> Are we looking at page 33? >> Oh yes. I apologize. Yes, page 33. Central purchasing salary and wages. Um there are two employees in the department but you know we had a
turnover. One employee left um and another one took over. >> Got it. >> Is there uh all in favor? >> I >> I >> Any opposed? Okay. Consent.
We're looking now at page 34. This is central purchasing. Other expenses. The original ask from the administration was for $4,875. We've reduced the amount by $1,100 and
we introduced at $3,775. Okay. >> Any discussion? No, we can make a motion. >> Okay. All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? Consent.
Next page is page 35. Central printing. Other expenses. The original ask from the administration was $22,700. We decreased that by $3,000 and introduced at $19,700. >> Any further discussion? >> No. Thank you,
>> madam clerk. >> All in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Consent. >> We're on a roll. Next page is page 36, central telephone. The ask from the administration was
$319,500 and we introduced at $319,500. I would like to hold off on this until we get an accurate amount of where we are with the wireless. I've brought this to the attention almost every single meeting that we're paying
now we're up to in as I've been as I've been calling this to the attention of the the public >> um that the that the wireless rate is so high it actually went up this month instead of going down. So I would like
to to cut this budget so that cut it and and get an accurate reflection of what's going on. we have we still have a number of phones that are unaccounted for and that there are departments that should
not be getting and I know that it's you know up to the up to the the will of the department head but you know enough is enough. We need to cut this down. >> So that's where I'm going to disagree with you. Each department needs to run. We just went to munic. We had to get
tablets to to help the staff use this this information out in the field. We're going to a paperless system. We're trying to go paperless. And in order to go paperless, we have to go to technology. The lists that you asked for were updated, but they have to be, as I
was explaining to by the IT director, manager that all the the the corrections that needed to be made were made. They're not going to be reflected until a future bill that we receive. So that we'll have the needs because they have to catch up. We have to >> do whatever. Um, we have new staff that
are coming on board where we, you know, that came on board that now require these some of these phones and and we're just expanding in tech in technology and, you know, we're cutting out some of the um papers and stuff and supplies for
um our our central supply, but technology, cloud space, phones, increases in tech in in in cost, it's just that's It's part of the nature of the business. So, I respectfully disagree with you. Um,
this is what we're moving forward to. We It's no secret that we're trying to go paperless. We've been doing that for a while. Um, but technology costs and if we want to if we want to be more environmentally friendly, and I don't know if that's always correct with
plastic phones and things of that nature, but this is the direction we're going. So um so if you cut then then some of our people will not have the equipment. We this was all we we just issued I believe it's approximately 30 tablets
because our UNICE system went live internally on July 8th. Our staff is now using that system um to update particularly the building planning and zoning. Um we just turned off um Mitchell Humphre which was the previous
provider and our staff is now use utilizing the system. Once we get all the bugs and kinks and all the other um >> troubles that happen when turning on the new system um we will then turn it on live to the public which we anticipate
hopefully by the end of the year. But we're we're now running the municip system and part of that requires the technology. This is not something new that that's coming here. >> So >> my question is if an employee has Municity and they're able to have this
mobile software platform, do they also need a phone? >> Yes. >> Why can't they use their own phone? So, not not every um uh tablet that we've purchased we got a data plan for because
some employees are using their phones. Some employees are using their phones as a hotspot. Um but for those that did not have a an existing phone, um we added a a data plan to the tablet. So,
um, >> there's also a matter >> just just a second. just >> I I just I' I've been looking at this every month and I don't see that each each phone is assigned to a person and some people have multiple phones and
if the whole system has just not been, you know, overhauled so that the absolute people who need the phones, the police, the fire, some zoning officials have it and the rest of the people don't need it. >> That's your opinion. the operational
decision is made on by the director and the directors come to us and we and we we will vet that and if we agree to it then we authorize it. If we don't agree to it they won't get it. Um so that's that's a decision by the department head and and for the efficiencies of their of their department.
So >> you still have the floor. >> I'm done. Thank you. >> Okay. So could I just make Well, I'll make a suggestion later. Thank you, Miss Councilwoman Castelino. Please, you have the floor now. >> Yeah. So, I I So, here quick question.
So, in regards to the carriers, um like for example, Optimum has I know they've been pushing all over town. Um has there been an annual review of carrier and when the contracts up, have has that assessment been made and then switching
carriers because sometimes you could get a great deal when you switch over the carrier. So, we utilize FirstNet, which is AT&T. Um, the reason we use FirstNet is that especially for our public safety
um officials, FirstNet, the name says what they do, gives network priority to all of those phones. So, if you're, let's say you're in a in a stadium, in a congested stadium, FirstNet phones are going to get network
priority. So they're going to work faster. Um they're going to have better service. That's the FirstNet system. So that's why we utilize FirstNet. So I mean could we go to something else? Yes. But you know that's we chose FirstNet
for that capability. Um you know as far as like internet service we have to use what's available um in the municipality. Uh I don't want to speak for our IT director, you know, um when it comes to
that. But going back to the the wireless, um I just want to clarify, you know, we do provide the bills. So I don't I don't want it the public to think that that the bills are inaccurate. I think the point you're making is that
um well, we did have some phones for individuals that are no longer employed with the township, which thank you because, you know, we were able to uh go back and turn those off. And I think I had mentioned um offline, not in the
matrix, that there is a 60-day delay, and that's what we've been told by the wireless provider, a 60-day delay, which is completely unfair, but I can't change AT&T. Um, so we should see the benefit of removing those phones. But I think
the crux of the issue is that you know there's a belief that maybe we have too many phones out there or there's too many of the hotspots out there. So I understand your concern when it comes to that. Um but as as Mr. Moraldo stated,
you know, that is an administrative function. Um so but I just wanted to put it out there that you know the bills we we give are accurate. So, it's just more of that you you probably don't feel that you feel we're spending too much because
there's too many phones out there, too many hotspots out there. Um, so I just wanted to make that that sort of clear >> and just finish up my comment. um councilwoman, you know, property maintenance, you know, people uh engineering, they're all departments I
could see utilizing. But again, not to just it would feel better if we knew there was some kind of an analysis made year to year and a better rate because we all do that with our homes and you know, I change carriers all the time.
>> The other thing is is that people don't want to use their own phones because of Oprah. >> Correct. especially in this municipality. So, use your own phone and the fear is that your phone's going to get over it. Um, so I would love to just tell the employees just download the
Outlook app. They're not going to do it. They're going to want a separate phone. I No, you say no. And I I can bring 50 people in here that say right now >> have a phone and I've been Oprah a million times. >> You're a council person. you put
yourself out there to the public. Our our employees don't want to be out in the public like that. >> Agreed. >> So, that's a and >> that is a rare from our employees. So, they want a separate phone if they're going to be
emailing or using, you know, any of the programs. >> Like to Mr. Charles to weigh in, I know you work for the >> Can we just Can we just hold on? We've got three people in the queue now. I want to go to the most the longest waiting. Yes. If if you're
>> um Well, I just I wanted to expand on what Mr. Diniac said. A lot of people don't want their personal phone numbers out there. You know, I use my personal phone, but there are, you know, certain people that now that have my personal
phone number that I wish they didn't, >> you know. So, would would I be one of them? >> I'm sure that's a a burden. I didn't mean to laugh. Yeah. change my phone number because the people that I want to have phone number, you know, but that's another problem. Plus the Oprah, I mean,
you know, if it does get Oprah, you have to, you know, turn it over and people are very leerary of that. So, >> that's why we tell everyone not to text. >> And >> exactly, we did take your comments. Oh,
I'm sorry. I'm speaking at turn. >> May I speak, Council President? >> Yes, please. And then, Mr. Charles, you're next. Sorry. Uh, I just want to say, Councilwoman Ruden, we did take your comments to heart and we've started, we our IT director did go through that process and we were
tracking down some of the hotspots and we found hotspots that are sitting in drawers and we did take them back and we looked at a new pricing mechanism where instead of paying I want to say it's
like $25 or $30 for uh the hotspot. If you don't use it, you're only paying $10 and then, you know, let's say you use five gigabytes, you're paying the 15 up until the maximum of 30. So now we've changed the pricing on the hotspot. So
if there's little activity on a hotspot, we're paying less than we were before. So I credit you >> and you know, your tenacity in pursuing the the wireless plans. I mean, it's brought about change. it will be reflected.
But yeah, you're correct. We did add we added the tablets with municipity and we added data plans. Um and you know, I'm I'm sure Mr. Smaldo and I will have more conversations. This is going to generate more more meetings
and conversations about um the devices that we have out there. Um so we're not we're not opposed to to reeling things in. I don't want you to think that. Um, >> and and again, you know, that's why
we're we're working together. Um, I don't know where I'm going with this, but >> this might be the time. Council Maroon, did you want to respond? >> No, I appreciate I appreciate that there's there's now some oversight on this. And I I still question why we need
to be handing out my FIS to anybody. >> Well, it's not just anybody. Yeah. through. I mean, there were a lot of MiFi, and I don't understand why anybody needs Mifis in this town.
>> We have them in the in the emergency vehicles for the computers. Um, so a lot of the MFIs are in in the emergency vehicles so that the uh the computers >> and and that requires security, cyber
security, especially when we're talking more so with the police than the fire, but even still the access to the data and everything that's in there. We have to ensure that security because the police are doing different work that most people aren't. And um so that's why we have to have these mobile data
terminals in the in in the apparatus and and emergency response vehicles. >> They just need internet. Those computers need internet. So >> you know the police officer is pulling somebody over. He needs instant and information on a motor vehicle that's in front of him. He doesn't know what he or
she does not that officer does not know what they're they're walking into at that point. So, >> and again, there are I'm sure sure there are still there's a MI5I sitting in a desk somewhere that is probably covered in an inch of dust. I I don't disagree
with you. We are trying to clean that up. >> And our IT director is looking into that because we're looking at ones that have not been used. And if they haven't been used, we're going to shut them off because if somebody really needs it and they go to turn it on, it's 3 months later, then we're going to find out who the culprit was because some of these
were given out a while ago. Someone may be just disconnected, you know. But there, >> right? But I remember I remember seeing that there were I'm sorry to interrupt. >> You still have the floor. >> I'm I just remember seeing that there were four given to the library and I I just don't understand that. >> I believe the library was well the
library was given back when we were doing the transition from over here to to 10 Rooney and they were we had we had rented space over at 80 Main Street and they needed those hotspots. They were supposed to be turned back in, turned off and I believe they were, but I'll
>> they were still on the last bill. So >> maybe you want to check on that one. >> We will and they may have been turned off since that. Like as I said, what the IT manager was telling us is that the cycle and as Mr. Dennia explained, it's a cycle, so it has to come through. So
we we did review them and and we have been looking at all the different um devices that we have >> and and we will continue to share. I mean, you don't even have to request. We'll just make sure that you're getting that wireless bill. Cuz again, I value
your input. We We really do. I'm saying this sincerely. It may not seem sincere, but I truly am sincere about it. Like, I don't want to waste money either, >> and it makes me crazy if cuz I've heard, well, I might use it >> on one of the MiFi that we hook back. I
might use it. Well, if you need to use it, we can get a new one in 3 days and it'll be hooked up and and ready to go in 3 days. So, you know, that's >> you want >> that's that not you. I mean for this individual. So,
you know, again, we are we are looking into it. There's a limited amount of time in the day for me to think about these things, for our IT director to think about him, but I will put this back on his radar and um you know, again, we'll have good communication and
I I hope at some point you're starting to see things dropping off and and more positive changes rather than you know, we're just adding tablets and data plans. >> Um, thank you. And to Councilwoman Castelino's part, you know, yeah, I I'll talk to Mauricio about, hey, is there
can we go in a different direction while providing the same service and again looking for better prices? That's what we should be doing as a governmental entity. Um, so I agree with you on that. >> Okay. Mr. Charles has been very busy. >> Yeah, I know. I keep
Councilwoman Scarpa and then Councilwoman Castle, please. >> That's okay. Um, I just want to make sure we, you know, look at maybe professionally managing our IT and I'd like to know like what we're going to do in the future to try to um do better
in this area because, you know, it's clear that everybody doesn't have um time to think about this and it's an area where there's a lot of potential savings. >> Okay. Now, we're going to go to Mr. Charles, please. >> Thank you, Council President. Uh one of
the uh positives about going last mostly all the your questions are answered but I just wanted to note for the record that in the report uh the board does mention uh technology and some of the things that we pointed out was that you know some of the things you talked about here review of plans and services um see if we're getting the best service for
for the for the best dollar. Also creating a policy about prevention and and misuse. I'm sure the administration has that or maybe want to expand expand on that and we think that if they're managing or analysis of each year year to year um is
something that the board is recommending that that happens. >> That's all I have. >> Thank you, Mr. Charles. Council, >> thank you. And and and um great segue, Mr. Charles, because um
the each year we get a report best practices. So we are making all these recommendations. The board the committee's making all the recommendations. Does any of this get incorporated to that best practices report that we could put in like I
that's always been like a checks and balance at the end of the year. So >> So yeah, it depends on the questions that they ask. Um it very well could be part of the next one that's that probably will come out in the next month or so. Um, so it it could be it depends
on what the state is looking at your rear. So ju just cuz it gets frustrating and I appreciate the councilman finding this cuz you know I never found this and it like these are the items that you know we hear oh what's council doing
it's taken so long everybody's nitpicking but again like you just you this all should be done internally and shouldn't have to be done >> yes >> by the council >> right >> so that's all I'm going to say I don't want to belabor it more on page 36 and
we've been very diligent with all these pages, but it does get frustrating to hear that something like that hasn't been done for for >> Well, yeah. I don't want to say >> I'm not blaming both of you here this year. So, I appreciate all the changes that have been made and I appreciate
that. I I don't want to paint a picture of, you know, that we don't do anything and we never review anything and I processes can be buttoned up. Um, I
agree and and we're never going to reach maximum efficiency. Even the most well-run companies in the world have waste and and things that can be changed. Yeah. Um but again having another set of eyes um
on this you know we welcome uh it can be frustrating in in a public meeting I know to feel that um you know sometimes I'll feel like we're being attacked but ultimately uh we're all here for the right reasons and the same reasons and
um we will continue to to look to do better. That's that's all I can promise is we'll try to do better. Um, >> so I'm okay with leaving this the way it is for now unless >> Okay. I I just want to understand that
the the telephone service is for hardwired phones coming into >> these buildings. But the dispatch >> has this been dispatched for police? >> Correct. >> Okay. Has this been reviewed? So that I
still have the fax. >> There are maybe places where we no longer need hardwired. >> We I will tell you what we have done with the faxes brought up the faxes. That was a contention for some of our more senior staff. Let's put it that way. >> Um the people who like to use fax. Our
our current spring central system has a fax component in it. >> Email is the new fax. So, we are we have if if we haven't done 100% we're probably about 99% removed of the fax machines. We're not
buying any more fax machines. We're not installing fax machines. I believe there may be one or two departments that may need a fax machine because I I think in fact I think the u tax assessors may need it because of the county. Um but they're
>> they're pretty much eliminated. um we don't use them anymore and um and I think I think actually we have one still in our office but we're getting away from that function because it's technology so we don't need them. So I I spoke to the IT director about this and
I had said this in a public meeting about looking to um uh to bring in a third party that uh you know this is their specialty reviewing um the landlines and and data lines and
and finding lines that are not being used. Um, apparently the the township did this a couple years ago. Um, and and had an audit done. Um, so I don't know if there's enough time has
gone by uh to where there's going to be any real value derived from doing another one so so soon. Um, but when we have some free time, once Municity is is fully integrated and Prime Point is
fully integrated, we can revisit that. But I don't know if there's the opportunity I thought there might have been um for reducing the landline expense because it was only done like a couple years ago. Um, but if I have something new to report, I will
obviously bring it and we would do it via resolution to appoint someone. I >> if if I could, I've been trying to be really patient about this, but I just want to give a perspective from the private sector. I have worked for a lot of finance and financial companies which
are basically technology companies with for money and then I've worked for technology companies and they every one of them has a very strict process of handling technology whether it's a laptop or a a cell phone
>> and and there is a process in place there is full transparency and there's accountability if you can't if you can't confirm uh that somebody has a phone, you turn it off. If they're not going to answer it, you just turn it off. But
there should be a process in place. And I don't know whether there is, but there should be a a a clear process for everybody, and there should be uh a database that you track all this stuff and and people should be accountable for it. Um, and I don't know that that's what we have, but if we don't have that,
I think it's a long-term well as short of a long-term goal as possible because this will this will eventually save us a lot of money in the future. >> Our IT director, it's actually IT manager, he he's going through that now and he has been doing that. We also have
some requirements with our technology through the GIF. Also, there's some cyber securities that have to be put in place, which we're we've been advised that we're one of the the leading aid townships in within our GIF that we're we're we're leading the way in with our
cyber security and our firewalls, things of that nature. So, we're we're ahead of the curve, I would say, in a lot of areas and and there are some things as Mr. Danak said that we we have to button up on and and that should be the case. So, so we'll we'll be doing that. We we
the IT director does maintain a database of the big items. So laptops, uh cell phones, um the MFIs, >> but HR HR should be doing that. >> HR does not maintain that. But HR when
someone leaves, HR has to get sign off from it that any technology property has been turned in. >> Um we we have that as part of our >> But it hasn't >> our termination procedure. Yeah, >> I'm sorry. I thought you were finished.
>> I I was just going to say the the key issue is transparency. I think for the council, we would like to be able to just say, "Hey, show us what what it looks like today or show us, you know, in a week or something and we can just you can just send us a spreadsheet or whatever and we can track all of this
and it would it would build a heck of a lot of trust. I I don't want to speak but you speak for you uh Councilman Ruden but that's that's what I would uh that's what I would recommend but I if you wanted to speak I know you were holding up your hand
>> Beth I I think you said it very well there needs to be a point person who collects these phones you know not each department because it seems like there's not a lot of communication there needs to be a person who's who's in charge of this I also want to say that since the
telephone bill was um $20,000 less in 2024. And we are eliminating lines due to cutting back of fax lines. That should be $20,000 should be taken out of that telephone service. We are
eliminating hard lines, not increasing. >> I'm done. >> Mr. Charles, >> thank you, Council President. I just want to make a recommendation or or maybe this is in place but both uh when I worked at Uni County and in Essex County we have an asset manager and that
person is responsible for any asset that the county has or the department has. So maybe that's something that we could look into as far as managing that and spreadsheeting that out. I mean everything from if that person has a
laptop, cell phone w with the appropriate serial numbers and all that. And then when the person does leave or separate from employment, um the department head or someone in the department then make sure that all
that's returned, any IDs, any badges, any all that stuff. But yeah, we do that. Okay. >> We do that already in ter >> Oh, yeah. And I'm sure I'm sure there's commercial software out there that will attract all track all of your technology. >> And and and Councilwoman, when you brought up the HR, um with the Prime
Point system, uh we have uh as part of the employee profile, there's a a hardware section that we're going to begin using. Um, we don't have it in Kronos, which is what we use right now for for timekeeping and and and the profile, but we're going to use it for
um uh for Prime Point. So, >> okay. >> We wouldn't have to rely on necessarily like it to say this person has this when they leave. The HR uh coordinator would >> would see it in the profile. >> We have an HR coordinator.
>> Ah, I I I call the person an HR coordinator. So >> and and the thing about prime point too that we're looking at is that one of the things we didn't have with Kronos is onboarding too as we're we're looking to do when we do the hiring process for anybody with the prime point where
people could actually log into the the system and create their own account and they start uploading all the pertinent information we need so it doesn't have to go to the person who's in here. So all these things that we're talking about, these are the changes in technology that we're trying to do to
get away from the the paper. So and we have a paper we have a paper application right now for people to get a job here with the exception of police and fire. >> We want to eliminate that. That's one of our priorities to get rid of that. And going to Prime Point is going to be one of the advantages we have with that. But
it takes it takes time. It's just not happening overnight. >> Yeah. >> I had a question. And I don't know if you see my hand up. >> Yes, please. >> Um I want to know um who actually did this uh review two years ago. What firm?
>> I don't know off the top of my head. They're they're pretty small outfits. Um >> would Okay. Would you just get that to me in a second? >> Sure. Yeah, we'll get it. Yeah. >> Okay. I'd like to make a motion. >> So, yes, that's what I was going to say.
That's what's hanging >> move this forward. I'd like to make a motion to take it take $20,000 out of the telephone service and then pass the rest of this as is. >> I'll second. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So, we got it on the floor. Uh, Mr. Smaldo, Mr. Ziniac, what do you think about that? Is there a strong reason not to do that? I It's pretty logical we're cutting down on on hard lines. So, >> Sure. Okay,
>> that's what he said. >> Um, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> Okay. Consent. >> Would now be a good time to just take a five minute break. I know I keep saying
five minutes. I'm going to try to actually do it. Okay. >> That got that under three 300. >> We will be back in five minutes. >> Yeah. be one. live. >> Thank you, West Orange, for your patience. We have just taken a short
break and are returning to the uh West Orange budget workshop and I'm turning the floor over to Council President. >> Mr. Diniac, you have the con. >> Thank you, Council President. Um we're moving on to page 37. This is the health
insurance. Um the big change from the original budget request um was an updated employee contribution amount which uh reduces the requested budget amount. So, um, as I stated on
July 14th, um, all employees, all active employees that have health insurance must contribute, uh, and that's the chapter 78 legislation. Um, so they contribute up to 35% of the calculated premium,
annual premium based on the plan that they have. Um, so after looking at what we've already collected and what we're looking to collect and chapter 78 is determined also by the salary of the employee, um, we updated the employee
contribution to 2.2 million, reducing the overall ask for health insurance. Um, when I went through this on July 14th and I talked about how obviously we feel the brunt of the increase in health insurance. We're self-insured for
claims. Um, we utilize the Metro HIF for the Medicare Advantage plan for our retirees. Medicare Advantage has gone up considerably year-over-year. Um, and uh, so we're asking for $17.3 million.
>> Councilman. Oh, did Mr. Charles? >> Yes. I I just wanted to note for the record that the the township is self-insured, but the state health benefit plans, we got word uh two weeks ago, is going to go up about 34% next year for some plans, the other
plans over 50%. >> And and to piggyback on that, the proposed legislation um includes some changes for those that don't participate in state health benefits. I don't know how it affects us
at this point. I've only read the proposed legislation. It's somewhat confusing. Um, so there there could be implications for us as well in in terms of not the plan,
but what we can have to collect from our employees. I should say have to. Um, so that may increase our chapter 78 uh and which would be beneficial to the township overall, not for the employee, but beneficial for the township. So, as
the legislation gets approved and then disseminated to the municipalities, we'll update the council on any positive uh, you know, benefits to the township based on those uh, contributions. >> And if they're negative, please let us know.
I don't I don't think it would be negative to the township. It's I mean it's negative if you participate in state health benefits. Uh it's unsustainable. Uh and they're changing the plans and everything and all that. So, um but it there could be an impact to what
we withhold from our employees to be uh um you know in line with the new legislation. >> Council Ruden. >> Yes. I would like to know why we don't just go with the Medicare Advantage plan as an option for retirees instead of
instead of offering um the retirees Medicare B as well. >> So these are all contractual um obligations that we made for um newer employees. They will not get
medical benefits in retirement. So if I make it to retirement here, which I doubt I will live >> to 65 and I retire from here, I will not get retirey health benefits. Our new police
and fire will not get retirey health benefits. So the legacy costs are going to continue for a long time. You know, we're going to be bearing the brunt of those decisions. And that's most municipalities, you know, they offered retirey health
benefits. Um that was part of the package. Um >> the 457 plan, >> right? And and >> to negotiate, >> right? And it's not just retirey benefits, it's retiree benefits mirroring the benefits that you had when
you were an active employee. Um, so when you retire and let's say you retire 45 or something like that, you might be a police officer or firefighter. You know, you're going to have basically the same plan that you had as
active. And then when you turn 65, we move you to a Medicare Advantage plan, which should be cheaper, but then you must contribute and pay your part B. we reimburse you for the part B because again it's it's we promised you lifetime
benefits paid. So if part of your benefits include Medicare Part B and you're paying the federal government for that, we reimburse you. So we do a lot of part B reimbursing to our retirees. Um and like
I said, Medicare Advantage has gone way up. Um that's why we joined the Metro HIF. Um but we have an advisor, we have a broker that was appointed by by the council and
they do their best to um >> find us the best situation. You know, like uh we've been talking about um Benard uh for our prescription drug plan. You know, it's a it's a traditional
insurance plan. pay a premium, but we miss out on all the the uh reimbursements and subsidies from from the drug companies that's gets going to Benard. Um so next year we may look to
self-insure because the offsetting reimbursements might be cheaper than just having a traditional plan. Um, so we're always looking, um, we're always meeting, we're looking at claims, um, what can we do about claims that are
sort of, you know, getting a little out of control. Um, because this is $17 million, this is one of the biggest pieces of the budget. You know, we we put a lot of time into
>> trying to control them and do the best that we can. Thankfully, we're not in state health benefits. Um, but five years ago, you know, the state might have, and the controller has done this, said like, "Hey, you should really join state health benefits because it's going to save you money." And at a time it
did. Um, so at least we don't have to deal with that issue right now. >> I think we're ready. Do we have to vote to this? Oh, >> I would just like like to hear from the budget committee on if if there's anything here that you think is
excessive. >> Excuse me. Uh the board look that we believe that the that the health benefits because or we're self-insured is is is pretty tight. You know, there is a call for a small reduction in this, but uh we have not mentioned really in
in the in the in the report, but >> Okay. Um does does this also include the unemployment or is that a separate line item? >> No, that's separate. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> Well, I just want to know what their
small reduction recommendation was if that >> and please speak up. We're hanging on every word, Mr. Charles and the we're fighting the air conditioning. So, so I'm sorry. So, um we think maybe possibly, you know, uh the broker fees
maybe we we talked about some of that. Maybe the broker fees could be reduced a little bit. Um I don't know, uh what exactly the broker fee is. Um so, though maybe there's some some savings there we can have. Um,
we also looked at possibly looking at the the employee, you know, Essex County as a whole is from a health insurance as a sick population um, both countywise and and governmentwise and
and so municipalities. So maybe some some of the scrutinization or the auditing of the of the bills uh, could be better looked at. Um and and the broker fees are are things that we will recommend take a look at.
>> I think we do have a third party that reviews the bills. Is that correct? >> We do. Um we have a third party. >> Good idea though. >> It and and we do it internally. Um we have an employee uh in the administrator's office that that's one
of her primary job functions. Um broker fees is is a good comment. Um >> where is that? >> The broker fees by design are baked in >> are baked into the the claims payments.
Um so we do not necessarily pay separately. The broker is paid by the third party uh network that we utilize. And >> can can't that be bid out differently so
it is separated out next time we bid out the plan? just say >> I think we can record. Sorry. >> Yeah, I'll take now if you don't have it, but it's not going to make sense. >> I don't know that for sure. I I mean, we
can structure our our RFP, RFQ, whatever, um the way we want to. >> Yeah. >> But this is how I've seen it done. um in in my career
and it's it's been criticized by many groups and you know many of the unions have brought this up um because they feel there's a lack of transparency. >> Um >> when when would we go out for this
contract? What what what time of year? >> When does the broker contract end? Is it next year? >> I think it may be next year. I think we we met um in the summer of 23.
>> We we will summer. >> We will check to see when the I don't know off off hand when the broker contract ends because I wasn't here for the initial >> summer 23 thereabout. We we went to the last agreement and so therefore we have
a three-year contract with a one and one option. We would looked at that. >> But but to Mr. Charles's point, it it is the hidden costs. >> Mhm. >> Baked into this. >> Yeah. Well, we have to bake the
>> You're you're correct because it is buried in the claims expenses. >> Huh. >> Councilwoman, you may recall when I was on the council before. >> Yes. >> This was a a big thing for me because it was so much money and it was so little
transparency. I used to be able to get on an annual basis what all these fees were because I think if I recall correctly there were the source of their fees were from three different uh streams and we got that every year >> uh so that we could take a look at so I
would I would definitely like I I know they can do it they can do it >> and it would just be much more helpful again more transparenc uh where that where that does and where that is on an annual basis. And we could
even go back a few years. >> It may be. And if I recall, it may it may even went into uh January. Maybe we were doing the bids and everything else this summer. It may not be until the following January. I forget when we did more December. It may have been in 20
early 24 that we actually made. >> Well, we'll look at the the dates what it is. >> I put on the list. >> Had a big thank you. It was a big uh undertaking. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh >> yes, Mr. Charles.
>> I just want to note even with the the increase in employee uh contribution, it is going up to about $2 million. So yeah. >> Yeah, >> it's going up for everybody. >> Everybody.
>> Everybody. >> So we we do have a max spend on claims. Um and then once we hit that max spend, we have a um uh excess policy that then pays us back for the the claims money
that we pay out. So, you know, there is a ceiling to what we would spend on the claims. Um so, we try to budget somewhere sort of in that minimum maximum level >> and both individually and uh as a group. So if you have one or two employees that
are having really high >> uh costs, we can limit that. Correct. Move to the >> We have we have individual limits. Um we've now begun to do things where um we break out individuals that have had high
claims data over the course of so many years. um we can actually laser them out um from the excess policies because it then drives up your excess policy uh um premiums. So, you know, we might get
paid in this year for the the claims over the max and then when we renew next year, you know, the the premiums now $200,000 more because of uh of of the claims that were paid out in the previous year. So, it's it's this like
juggling act. So let's vote. >> Wait, I I beg your beg. >> Um, is there is there a cap in terms of prescription? >> So the prescription is is a traditional insurance plan. So we pay based on the
members that are um uh that are insured. So it's really on the insured uh insurance company. Um, so if we have members that are, you know, they're getting a lot of prescription drugs, we're not seeing the
the impact. We'll see it next year when we try to renew. Um, but this is like a traditional insured plan. We have a premium amount. We pay the premium amount every month. >> Um, no matter what the members use, whether if they don't use any prescription drugs
or if they if they use a lot. That's why we're looking to see we're going to get the data from the from Bangard to say, you know, what are the drugs that they're using? What is the the projected cost to us to see is there an
opportunity to go self-insured? >> Um, okay. Because that that that may be the case and we'll >> So, so if there's a set fee for prescription benefits, why? and and last year it was um 1.3. Why is it now 1.8?
There could be a 500 a half a million dollar savings if we just go with what they actually spent last year. >> We go based on the amount that we're paying per month. >> It went up that much. It went up half a million dollars for prescription.
>> Yes. >> Crazy. Okay. And then what is um the li is this is this all library? >> Yeah. So the li the library pays for those things. That's why there's there's nothing budgeted for them. Um we pay and
then they reimburse us. So it zeros out. >> And what is this other HB claims? Oh, I'm sorry. You didn't ask for anything. So never mind. >> I you know I should have I think I promised you this information the last time and I I I apologize. I didn't I will get you the
the the 2024 detail on those uh two line items. I'll send them to you tomorrow. >> 95 and 30 were supposed to have been merged from what I remember. Um >> request anything, but I will give you what was
charged to those two line items in the in the prior year. >> Okay, Mr. Charles, >> I I just I want to go back to revisit the so last year we paid out 15 about 152 and now the ask this year the
request is 173. You know, it's it's and we're just attributing that to the significant rise in the claims or it's fees. >> It's claims. It's Medicare Advantage costs and the benefit card premium.
>> The benefit card is actually the prescription. >> The prescription. Yes. I apologize. Yeah, it's okay. >> Yes, but if you look at any publicly traded uh healthcare insurer in the country, their financials have been wrecked. >> And I know cuz I own a couple of the stocks unfortunately.
>> Yeah. >> I mean, most companies out there have totally stripped down the health care offerings and you know, they're high deductible plans um where they push the cost off to the employee. uh we can't do
that because of the collective bargaining agreements. >> So we're picking it up. >> So and this is this is every municip most municipalities if if we could >> if we could get it out of the contracts you know or and that was what administration would want to do then you
know we would love to move to a more affordable plan. Um but this is what we have in the contracts. This is what we promised to retirees. Um, not to say we don't try to do better, but the level of benefits that we have
to offer are extremely expensive. So, we're we're sort of shopping around extremely expensive plans and seeing like, you know, where where can the savings be? Um, so, >> okay, >> because even even when we do offer more
uh cost-effective plans, our members don't take them. You know, our members have been trained to stick with the best plan possible available no matter the cost because we, you know, we can we can offer a plan that there's less of a
chapter 78 contribution and our members don't take it. They overwhelmingly have picked the most expensive plan. >> So why don't we eliminate that as a choice? >> We can't we we can't >> This is 2000$2 million more than last
year. And is there do you have do you do you have the the invoice? I'm sorry to ask, but for to to justify even the half a million dollar increase in the prescriptions, >> we we can give you all of the the
benefit data. 17.3 million is like the bare minimum. We can give you the the claims da well not the specific claims data but general claims data the payments to the benard
the payments for Delta dental the payments to the metro hif for the Medicare advantage plan you know we we can provide all that 17.3 at the end of the year is like skin of our teeth >> this is 1.8 8 million for how many
employees are getting the benefit? >> We have hundreds of employees >> and then we have hundreds of retirees. >> Yes, we have more retirees. >> Our legacy costs are beginning to exceed our active employees.
And and aren't any of these already on a Medicare or or a a a plan D or is this is this also a plan D? >> We it's also plan D part D. >> Y
>> they don't call it a Cadillac plan for nothing. It they're just truly expensive benefits. Um, >> when when are the next contracts going to be renegotiated? >> Five years. >> It was a big win to get rid of lifetime
health benefits from all of the collective bargaining units and obviously much easier to do it to the unrepresented. It's going to take a long time to really pay off because people live longer and when you have great benefits, you live
longer. Um, >> I mean, and I don't I don't mean that in a in a funny way. I mean, >> our members, police and fire, they will retire younger and they will be on the retiree plans for a long time. And when they retire, we're not getting the
contributions from them. At least when they're active employees, we're getting the chapter 78. So, they're paying 35% of the the calculated premium. And then and that's the difference too like if you're
on the state health benefits plan and it's similar to like what I said a traditional plan like Bennard you pay a premium so no matter what that member does you're still paying $50,000 a year for a family plan here we calculate out
the family plan to be $50,000 but we may spend $300,000 on a family $400,000 if people have children. If there's a C-section, it's going to be very expensive. If someone has cancer, it costs us a lot of
money. That is the risk of being self-insured. The the positive side of things is, you know, we might have someone that they have a $30,000 single coverage plan and they never go to the doctor and we don't spend
anything on their claims. If we were in a traditional plan like state health benefits, I would have sent $30,000 down for that individual and >> nothing, >> you know. >> Okay. I I >> there's no cost. I'm sorry. I'm going >> I'm going to step in here because
nothing else that we discussed tonight will have any impact on this. We've got to pay it. We've got to provide the benefits. And I if if you guys want to keep talking, >> I just have one more question. I'm so sorry. Are dental benefits always in the contracts? >> Yes.
Yes. And then police and fire contribute. Correct. I I thought they I thought they do contribute a percentage. >> Is that reflected in here? >> Yeah, it would be net. Yeah.
>> Madam clerk, >> I think it's new. It's new. >> Yeah. >> I'm calling the vote. >> Okay, sir. Please. >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? consent >> and council just the question was asking for um the contract we entered into was
on October 24th 2023 >> with the with our broker >> and it's a fiveyear contract >> it's a it's three years >> three with two >> one year two more year >> council president next page is page 38
unemployment compensation insurance um our budget request is $90,000 Uh I spoke about this um on the June 17th. Um we are in a more traditional
unemployment insurance plan where we don't pay the claims like many of the municipalities do. Um it's based off of uh the experience rating and you know more claims the state gets our rating goes up. Um, so we uh got an increase in
our unemployment percentage rating. Um, so the $90,000 is requested to cover those unemployment expenses that we incur in every payroll. >> Any questions? >> No. >> No.
>> I don't question. >> Mr. Charles, >> the SP, excuse me, the spend last year was 68,000. Um, and then we're asking for 90 90,000. Is there any >> room there to cut some of that maybe one or 2% down?
>> Sure. Anything left over I was going to put into our our state unemployment insurance trust fund to be used for future years, but you know, I'm willing to cut $5,000 actually out of it.
>> I just won't have it for the trust. I got Councilwoman Ruden next. Council Ruden. >> Yeah. I just want to bring up a point that the um budget uh advisory commission wrote in their report, which is that we have
crossing guards who are employed for 10 months and then they go on unemployment, which then raises our unemployment. Is there some way to put them on full-time so that we are not paying unemployment
for those two months because teachers also only work 10 months and they don't go on unemployment. >> So some some municipalities do that. Um we would end up having to pay them for them for the the holidays and the vacations that uh that the schools have.
Um so you would see additional salary costs during the year. Um so I think If you compare the expenses, it's probably just cheaper to let them file the unemployment again because we're not paying the claims directly. Um,
>> but our rate goes up because they file every year. >> Our our rate our rate does go up, but >> why can't we for 12 months whatever they make you you you pay them based on a 12-month contract. >> We'll do the math on it.
>> Let him finish. >> Yeah. No, I >> I love your questions, Councilwoman. Councilwoman, just let him finish, please. >> We We'll do the math on the difference between the work days um you know, for a 10 months, like a regular work period and what the schools
are open for and what the crossing guards work. We'll do the math on our our staff and come up with uh the difference and then we can sort of compare it then against versus letting them um file for unemployment. The we'll
do that exercise. >> Mr. Charles, I'm starting to pick up that just that slight wrist motion. Yes. >> In my peripheral vision. I'm sorry I haven't quite >> that's quite right. I I just want to I was going to bring it up during when we got to the police section about the
crossing guards. Um if there was some kind of analysis done about is it is it best in the report we do mention um about possibly bringing them on for as 12 month but that's analysis that has to be done by the administration. Ju just for a point in fact the other the only
other I guess position or job that that is allowed to be a 10 year 10-month would be a lifeguard and so New Jersey allows for crossing guards and lifeguards to collect unemployment at 10 months. Interesting fact, I guess. >> I guess because it's hard to get across
the board. It's maybe >> and like bars. >> Councilman Ruden, >> when we spoke about this the first time, we talked about a reduction of 38,000. You had mentioned 10,000. Can you can you split it a little more and give us
$20,000 reduction? >> Yeah, I have 48,300. That was my question. I don't know why I wrote that down. I I don't know. >> I think we had agreed on 38. >> Not Yeah. I don't know where that >> a reduction of 38. >> Yes.
>> 383 as a matter of fact. >> Do you know what the experience has been so far this year? >> I don't have the um the expense in front of me. I should have printed everything out. And >> that's the 48300 number I have.
for half the year. >> As long as we can revisit this, if if I look and I see that, you know, we're trending to stay under 70, then I'm okay with it. But if I if I can come back and say, "No, you know,
we're going to need more and we can revisit it." I I'll do 20 now. >> Sure. Well, let's revisit Let's revisit at the next workshop. But if you want to vote on 20 now, we'll vote on 20 now. >> I I rather him. We have four votes.
>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Counciloman Castle, you have the >> Yeah. So, I think we should for the sake of time if he has to go back and look. And I'm keeping notes here tonight. You're keeping notes. He's keeping
notes. I think at the end of night, let's just go over the ones you're going to get back to us on. and like we're spending too much time bartering with them and if he could get back to us, let him do his homework and then we express our opinion and some of
these we might not be able to vote on tonight. So, if there's like a handful of them, it's it's we'll be able to handle that workload at the next session, but we got to get moving because we're only on page 38. So, I'm okay with coming back to this one. >> Council Ruden,
>> that's fine. >> Fine with me. Wonderful. Okay. Next, it's hagging them here. >> So, we'll revisit page 38, but moving on to page 39 uh is the general liability insurance.
This is the GIF and um it's a defined bill. Uh and we pay the library workers comp compensation insurance, excuse me. So,
not really much to say about this one. >> Why don't they pay it? >> I I don't know. We I think it's We've always paid the libraries workers compensation insurance. I don't know why, but this is I looked back at it. We've been doing it for at least as far
back as I can look in Munex. >> They just got $300,000. >> I I agree that should be shifted. That that's one of the recommen part of this. >> Yeah, let's look at that. >> Get it off our >> Then we're going to have to ask the
library to reimburse us. That's that's the only thing I It's part of the bill. >> Oh, okay. >> Um so, so we can ask the library for it, but I don't want to take it out and then if I don't get it now, I'm overexpended in
general liability. So >> come back to us with that >> if >> so just to explain to everybody the state considers the uh free libraries that are associated with municipalities to be separate entities. >> Yeah.
>> And so we can't tell them what to do. We can only give over one-third of a mill of our property taxes to them to fund their budget. And so I I don't know where you go from here, but other than just ask. We will ask.
>> Yes. >> Yeah. And I think the history on it was years ago they took a big hit when evaluations went down very low and the trending the past few years. I know they're not back to where they might have used to been years ago. But again,
it'd be helpful if we had our itemized budget that we didn't receive to make these decisions. So if he wants us to reconsider it, he should, you know, we should get that itemized budget from him and then maybe, you know, we could see if it should stay here or go there. So
I'm willing to put this on the list and uh wait on that vote. >> Mr. Charles, >> just as a point of governance, if you can explain maybe to the board members or to the public, >> the library, are they required to submit
to the administration or to the council a working budget, a wish list budget, a capital, or are they required anything at all as far as and do they do that? >> So, we received a financial report, but
I wouldn't was it's not this. It wasn't the itemization. I have received it in the past. We just didn't get it this year for whatever reason. I don't know. >> Okay. Just just so you know, we're meeting with the library board forward >> and a director next week, but we'll
bring all these questions up. >> That would be great. That would be helpful so we could know where they're situated because >> so we could, you know, see where they're situated. So we they need our assistance. That great if they're doing well. to we have a we have a meeting the
mayor us that's tak myself director with and we're meeting up with with the entire board and the director library next week so we can bring it up then >> okay >> would it would that be possible for somebody from the council at least one
person from the council to attend is there any reason why we >> would this is more of an operational meeting I I I'll ask they they invited us this this was this was Um, so we they've asked us to u have this conversation. So, oh, we can ask >> could could you just check and then we
can just send an email out if anybody is interested in available. We can just >> No more than two though. >> Yes, mom. >> It is a public I think it's >> I'm pretty sure it's a public opened. So,
>> okay. Do we need to vote on this page? No wait. Okay. >> Next. >> Uh, next page is uh page 40. Um, workers compensation insurance. This is
uh the ask is 312,000. And I think we spoke um and Mr. Debie I think was actually at the day is here and and we had conversations about you know this this might not be enough for for this year. Um but at this point uh we're
going to maintain it and if we need to transfer appropriations at the end of the year um we'll have to do that. Um so uh for workers compensation we will pay uh lost wages. We pay uh uh medical
bills. We pay attorney fees. Um we have a third party that manages all of this. Um they do an excellent job of uh you know making sure we're not paying out more than we need to. Um but the
workers compensation claims have been pretty high this year. Um you know, we pay on a bi-weekly basis. Uh CRC is the company that we use. Um and it's it's just been very high this year.
>> Any discussion? Can we vote? Oh, Mr. Charles. >> Sorry, Mr. President. Um we we looked at this number. We we think from a board standpoint, maybe a 30 or $40,000 reduction is is could be uh saved here.
So, we would respectfully ask if that closely be done. So, what do you think about that? >> I disagree. Um, just based on what we've spent so far. Um, >> which is >> I I don't even think 312 is going to be enough to be honest. I I had the data
with me when we we we spoke about this. >> Um, so I do not recommend cutting this. If anything, we're going to be adding money to it at the end of the year with a transfer resol uh trans resolution transfer appropriations.
>> Mr. President, do we do we know what what our year to date is? I wasn't here the other day. >> Yeah, I I I I brought it up at the June 17th meeting. I I should have printed everything out for this meeting. I don't know why I didn't think I would need it, but um we'll get it to you. It's It's
high. it. We've spent a lot already. Like I said, we pay bi-weekly. We get a check register from CRC um with the detail. Um I think today I paid $25,000 for workers compensation. So a twoe check register
today or yesterday. >> That includes claims. Yeah, it's it's to attorneys, it's to doctors, it's >> you know, >> I just would have to redact names. If you ever want the detail, I'll just have
to Well, we'll work together because they have the individual's names on there. >> Madam clerk, >> all in favor? >> I any opposed? Consent. have an asterisk.
>> Good. >> 41. >> She couldn't take it anymore. Let's move on. >> Um page 41, central mailing. Um we did not have a reduction. Um this is primarily
our postage meter. um that we use for tax billing, sewer billing, mass mailings um so >> any questions? >> Yes. Are we going to be moving um
forward um without without postage meter and just emailing bills and statements? We we offer um the capability to the taxpayers um if they do want to receive e billills, they can. Um we also, you
know, for payment purposes, I think everybody knows this, you can pay online. Um, but I don't think we'll ever I won't say ever. >> Someday. >> Someday. Um, but we're still going to have to continue to to do mailings.
>> Do you know what the uptake is on the email? >> I don't. I'll ask the tax collector. It's It's small, but growing growing every year. Um, I know there was a question when we reviewed this back in June um
for the potential for like sponsorships um on on the bills. We looked into that. It's it's not allowed because it would almost be like uh the council putting their seal of approval on a vendor um and and we're just not allowed to do
that. So, we did look into that um you know as a potential way to generate some revenue to offset the cost of the mailings and all that. So, we're not allowed to do that. >> I I just make a recommendation for the email just to review it just see what the open rate is because even though you
send an email out doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be opened. >> Yeah, I have to see if we get that data from the system that we use when we move to admins. They do send you a report on on what was
opened that that you do get. I don't know if MUNDEX gives us that report. I will check with the collector. Um but I know when we move to Edmonds tax, we can see that um because it's important to
make sure like number one that the PDF bills that get sent out are not getting um blocked by spam filters and all that. Um so you have to use those reports. uh just to make sure that they're they're getting out there. I I'll check with the collector. It's a good question.
>> Last time we got together on the poster postage meter usage, we talked about reducing it because it's gone up um quite a bit from last year and 6,000 more than what was actually
used. Is is there some way to reduce this? I I I really don't think so. We do an estimated tax billing. We do the regular tax billing. We do the sewer billing. Um we do all sorts of mass
mailings. It's just >> No, >> we send delinquent notices out constantly. Um >> sore bills are going out. There's stuff in envelopes tomorrow. We have 15,800
>> 800 sewer bills getting stuffed tomorrow for delivery >> and then we'll send delinquency notices out on sewer bills. So unfortunately we just we do a lot of mailing. We we do a lot of mailing. >> So the sewer the sewer assessment is
going to be the same as last year. >> Correct. We have updated bedroom data um based on the revaluation. So, it's the most accurate well, it should it should be the most
accurate information that we've had um because we're taking we we d we figured out a way to integrate the revaluation data um and plug that into um the sewer billing. So, >> okay.
>> And with the new system, >> I have a question. that the new system works with with the >> children. So, >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yeah, somebody actually asked me today, uh, a resident, how quickly will be we
be able to move to that usage model given where we are with the new, you know, computer system and all. >> So, we're going to have to move to Edmonds first. Um and then once we're we're settled into Edmonds, then we can integrate um
the water usage data into Edmonds. That was the problem that we couldn't integrate into Munidex. Edmmonds has done these conversions and and calculations in the past. So to say >> less than a year,
>> to say we we'd be ready for the summer of 2026 is is probably that might be a little bit too soon. I don't know. If we can get going
in April of 2026 and it's smooth and then we can start testing data sets, maybe we could do that for summer of 2026. But I do not want to promise that at this point, >> right? Okay. I'll say about a year or more. >> But I've had many conversations with
Edmunds about this. They every time we talk about it, they assure me that they've done this before. they work with um with the water usage data sets and it can go right into the system. They're not concerned about, you know, the block and lot and and the account uh
identifiers, the difference between those two things. Um >> okay, great. >> But again, >> not not having it ready to go >> because it could get delayed, >> right? >> Even getting the tax system integrated.
I don't want to say yeah summertime we're going to have >> okay >> water consumption but if it goes well in in April we'll see if that's a possibility. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Yeah, we should just we should just keep talking about it first half of next
year, maybe towards the end of the first quarter because it'll be clear about the implementation. >> Well, you'll know because the public will have a new uh a new portal to use for for taxes. So, if that goes well, >> no, the
>> it's it's it's everywhere. It it's it's a much easier system to use. Um, you know, the public's going to like, you know, the the way it displays the information, the history, the ability to
pay, uh, the security in paying. Um, >> have you done a demo at the uh at a council meeting about what this brave new world is going to be? because that should be something we >> Yes, >> we we have notice >> we we will uh we will talk to them about
debuting the public facing side of Edmonds like the tax portal and then also bringing in um some examples of the uh the transparency portal that I've talked about where it would show like we put on the website you know tracking
whatever you know KPIs that we want to track whether it's you know tax collection percentage or spend on overtime or um you know revenue collected from ABC licenses like we can put whatever we want and it will update
every night. Um so we can have them maybe show the council in a conference meeting you know September October or something like that. >> Sounds good. maybe October after budget. >> Yes. The contract for maintenance and
repair since the the meter is is rented. >> Um what are we paying for? We're paying also in addition a contract for the meter. >> Service service contract. Yeah. >> Do we ever need that? >> Yeah. Yeah. They break.
>> Okay. So, is there any way to reduce that because we only spent 14 and you're asking for 23? What is the contract? >> It's sometimes you got to actually pay for, you know, you might have to pay an
additional repair fee. Um, you know, guy will come out, guy or girl comes out. But I mean, >> can we >> It's a hund00 million budget. >> Yes, it is. I and I understand that you're trying to cut as much as you can, but you're talking maybe
$800. >> Okay, I'll take it. >> Okay, vote on it. >> All right, thank you. >> Again, we rely on you you guys because you you have the experience. So, I I hope you feel comfortable. >> I don't I don't and I if I felt
comfortable, I would have cut it back in in June. So, I know you say that >> keeping tonight's listen to us. So, I'm sorry. I think it's just getting too late. And we will accept a cut of $800
>> uh to line 090 contract maintenance and repair. >> Okay. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion to cut $800 on that line item. >> Second. >> Okay.
>> Councilwoman Caselino, >> uh, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> no. >> The motion carries. Okay. Um, this is information uh page
42. Wait a minute. Yeah, page 42. Information technology salary and wages. Um, the ask here is for uh $324,25320. I do want to point out that we have an
offset amount of $10,000 um for one of our department heads uh for the work that he does um with the website and even some general IT work. Um
so as you can see that that offset is listed and that employee is named. Um other than that um >> just a quick the question. Why would the offset not be listed somewhere here so
we'd know what it is? I know I know you know, but >> yeah, I listed it underneath. I just didn't put it on the line because I I didn't want it to be included in total salary because it's not part of base salary. It's a separate line item. I just noted that person up there.
There's a probably cleaner way to do it, but it is for that individual. I don't want to say the name even though it's on the screen. That's also on the website. I mean like Yeah. >> It's on the website. >> Uh Madame Cler.
>> Yes, sir. Am I doing >> Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Charles. >> Thank you, Mr. >> That's what I meant to say. >> It's okay. >> I guess you guys compete all the time. >> That's bad for her. Um so the the board in our report taking a look at possibly
removing um the longevity for non-union and non contractual um employees. I I don't know if that's an opportunity um here um moving forward may possibly that is maybe savings of about 16,000 on this
particular item. So, well, I I spoke to CBA about this and and so this is an unrepresented employee. I think I think it would be very difficult
to reduce someone's salary. Um so, and I think I said that to CBA. I being it's we're civil service, I think it just would be very difficult to lower someone's salary. But um
that being said, it is an unrepresented employee. Um you could try to to remove longevity from someone, but I don't I don't know how successful you would be. I really don't. Um we got rid
of longevity for all future employees many years ago in the unrepresented. Um, so we only have is it two or three? Not even that many. Um, uh, employees that still have it, but I I it would be
difficult, I think, to reduce the salary. But, uh, this person is not covered under collective baring agreement or an employment contract. >> So, >> how long, >> Counciloman Scarpa?
>> Um, yeah. Um, these are pretty high salaries though, aren't they? Compared to industry standards, how do they compare? And is Joe T in here or is he under some consulting fee? >> He he's he's in the operating expense. Um, because he's part of a a a third
party vendor. >> Okay. >> So, to to answer your your first question, yes, the these are high salaries. Um, uh, most of our department heads have
what I would consider high salaries in local government. Um, you know, you can you can compare to some other municipalities and you're going to find some that are about the same, some a lot that are lower. um we
trend higher I would say in terms of salaries if at least looking at the Essex County area. Um it's probably a good project maybe even for CBAB to do some comparisons. Um so you know that's what I'll say in
comparison to other municipalities. Yes. Um but to answer the question like is it too high for what they do? I can't I'm not going to answer that. Um, I I can't answer that. That's that's not what I'm here for. Um, the salary is what it is.
I can only point out that they're non-union. Um, you could choose to change the ordinances um for non-union. You you could do that. Again, I don't think and you'd want to speak to a labor attorney. I don't think that you can
reduce salaries, but you might want to reduce salaries for the people to come next. Um, you know, you you could do that. Uh, you could say the CFO should only make 75,000. Um, and when there's a new CFO, there
would be a new salary guide. You have the power to do those things. Um, but changing current employees salaries to reduce them, I would consult legal counsel for something like that because I just don't know if that's going to be
possible. Um, but it's not to say that you you couldn't change ordinances for future for people to come after. You know, >> I just want to understand this is not in the contract. It's not in their contracts. The longevity, is that
correct? >> They don't have contracts. They they were grandfathered in from when they were hired. >> Yeah. But it's not in their contracts and it's not and they're not part of a union that is guaranteeing this. They're they're unrepresented, but we are civil
service, so >> it gets complicated. >> You know, you would have to probably deal with the civil service commission on this. Um, again, if you try to cut the salary, >> do other municipalities have longevity?
>> Yeah. Okay. Okay, guys. Again, I'm going to stop. We're not going to fix this problem. If we want to talk about in future or somebody wants to take a call to a labor lawyer, that's fine. We're not going to solve this. I I don't want to talk about it. Let's That's >> Yeah. I mean, should it not >> please >> here?
>> I would like to make a motion then. >> Sure. >> I'd like to make a motion to accept the recommendation of the um budget committee on the longevity issue. >> What was the recommendation? You have to be very clear
>> that um employees that are not currently covered on longevity in their contract should not be getting longevity. What page are we on right now? >> We're on page 42. I would strongly disagree in doing something like that.
Mr. Charles comes from two counties that I do not think would ever reduce someone's salary in that way. And I'll let him speak to that if whether Essex County or Union County would take action to reduce someone's salary or to take
away their longevity if they have existing longevity. >> Gosh. Yes, please. I I I think it's very important here that our recommendation be run by or discussed with with a labor attorney. It's going to involve civil service. No
doubt about that. Um um it's just an option that we we as the board uh looked at uh for the non-contractual and the non-UN people. Um but by no means am I an attorney. Um but I think that um we should you know possibly take a look at that or speak to the labor attorney
before any you know final action is on this >> okay we we did a little bit out of turn we have a motion on the floor >> it was clarified is it clarified to your to your satisfaction? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> So is is there is there a second? And this includes you Councilwoman Scarpa if you'd like to second it. >> Yeah. I I'm not I'm a little uncertain. I I believe we should we should table this and consult the labor attorney before we do anything. So, I'm not sure
what we're proposing here. Are we proposing just a cut? >> Okay, we're we're not tableabling it. We have a motion on the floor. If it has a second, we'll move forward. If it doesn't have a second, we'll move on. >> Is there a second for Councilwoman
Ruden's motion? Seeing none, but what that does not mean is that we won't uh move forward on trying to uh think through this. >> Uh because I would think if anybody has done anything like this under civil
service in the state of New Jersey ever, >> our labor attorney will >> we will be able to to find out about this. >> Okay. So, we're tableabling this, right? >> No, we're not tableabling it. There was no motion. So, there's nothing pending. We've just taken it as a to-do to look for into this.
>> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. >> So, we have page 42. >> Council President, are we moving to the next page? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Have we done consent on this? >> Oh, are you are you voting on this one? >> I thought that was that was good.
>> Oh, sorry. >> There's no change. >> But we don't we still have to approve it on consent every page. Yeah. >> No, we're not. >> No, we're not going to approve it. >> The motion that that Counciloman Ruden spoke was not about the page.
>> Oh, okay. It was about the I that I All right. >> And directly. Yeah, because she was going to remove it. >> Right. That's why I deninia. What page we were on? >> We were not going to remove this tonight. Well, I I don't think the votes are here to remove somebody's salary.
>> Coming back to this coming back to it. We never left. We're still on page 42. We just need consent. >> No, we're coming back to it. I thought >> Yeah. So, that's that's what I'm asking because if you're gonna >> find out what you need out, do do you want consent on this or do you want
>> No, we don't want to consent. We want to look into it. >> I'm asking council president. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Um, do you want to come back to this? >> Let's let's take a vote. There seems to be a difference of opinion >> because everything we've talked about that, you know, we're going to come back to. So,
>> I understand that. Councilwoman. >> Okay. So, I'm going to recommend we come back to it only because there seems to be questions about it. So, I think there should be some due diligence on the council's part. So, we could clear this
up because to my understanding, there's two other employees in the booklet that fall under this category. And I think we owe it to our employees to give them some comfort level. Um, you know, we're not here to yank salaries and whatnot.
Um, but questions come up and unfortunately for for those involved, um, we we have to do our due diligence. So, >> I also, and I'm not an attorney and maybe we should have had one here, we
are seemingly moving past funding a department and talking more about specific compensation for an employee. And that's where >> Yeah. I I I just don't >> matter. You're you're you're walking into a personnel matter and >> we're not supposed to be talking about
personnel here. >> I I I don't want any of us to put our you know ourselves in a bad position. >> Okay. So >> because of that that's that's the only thing I bring up about it. Um >> consent on it for now then and then we could revisit it. Councilwoman,
>> we have approximately two months to delve into this if anybody wants to delve into it. >> Okay. >> Just a question for labor, >> right? >> Yeah. Okay. Let's consent. All right. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Consent.
>> Let's keep going. Okay. Central IT. I don't have I had detail budgets. I think I showed everybody. >> Yeah. >> And and this reflects the the changes that we made. Um we did have detail. I I
apologize, but this does reflect the reductions we made back in June. Um I can assure you. >> But the detail back in for the final budget. >> Yes. I I I'll put those pages in. >> Yeah. Um because I think we all remember when I broke out the pieces, but this
does represent the cuts that we came up with. So if you want to move on from these because you want the detail again with the cuts or if you trust me in that I integrated all the cuts, we agreed to.
>> Yeah, if you put that in that would be helpful. >> Can we hook you up to a lie detector really fast >> just to be sure? We trust you, but put a hole in my head but >> I I apologet
a lot. So >> So I just want to talk in the report we talk there's three immediate actionable items and the board recommended that um we get some more data and some more support. We didn't know that there were
supporting documentation. We we we do now. So we would like to see that as well because we were kind of confused on the increase of without the supporting data. So So if if you will maybe we can not table but move on from these so that
I can send CBA those sheets that we did that we actually showed um the breakouts for all these. Um, again, I have the the cuts in in that we agreed upon, but if if you want the more detailed sub
accounts, I I I'll have to send those. >> That sounds good. And you can just send it to the council, too. Yeah. >> Are we in favor of just moving on? >> Yeah. >> And revisiting so we're not wasting time. >> Okay. Um, two. >> Moving on to page 48. Tax collector.
>> Um, >> why did we just skip over? So, we're skipping over the it because um when we uh I can't remember which hearing it was. I came back to the council with
more detail on the IT. We did new breakouts on the sub accounts um and listed out the individual vendors and the projected spend and then we came up with cuts based on that. So the sheets that you have in the introduced budget
represent those cuts, but I didn't put in the detailed sheets into this budget document I had just updated. Um because it's all linked to like all the reports are linked to each other. Um so I don't
I don't want to go through those pages again without having revisiting the detail that I came up with in case you want to make additional changes. So, we're just going to skip the it for now and we'll go to tax collector and I will
get you those sheets and we can vote on them at the next hearing. Tax collector. Uh the only thing of note is that um one of the employees was transferred to uh central purchasing. So, that employee is
in central purchasing as well prrated and is prrated in the tax collector's office. Um we do get to utilize that employee in both departments as necessary. Um so when we get uh uh you
know the quarterly tax flow and the and the sewer bills coming in, we can float this employee over to tax. But um for allocation uh reasons, the majority of their work is now central purchasing. That's why
they're they're they're allocated to central purchasing. So, um, any comments, questions? Um, >> they wanted to move on from >> We're skipping it. We're coming.
>> Yeah, we're on page 48. Yeah. >> 44 through 47. >> Okay. Any questions and comments on page 48? >> All in favor? I.
>> Any opposed? Consent. H49. This is the tax collector uh other expense line item. Um we the administration came up with a cut of 25,000. Well, you know, we all came up with a cut of $25,000
uh reducing the total to $95,4164. Um we have >> any questions? Consent. >> All in favor? >> My I >> Any opposed? >> No, this one I'm good.
>> Consent. >> I Okay. I think that we had asked for an explanation of miscellaneous. >> Did I not uh give the detail on that account? >> Well, you knocked out 25 grand, but >> there's still the junk drawer
of 070 of miscellaneous. And I think that we should know what we're spending 95 or $70,000 on. My hope is that whatever that noise is is something that's going to carine
through this ceiling filling man instantaneously. It's a budget meeting. Um we will give you the the print out for 070 uh for 2024 and 2025 detailing out the vendors that we utilize. Um
>> okay. >> Does anybody want to wait until we get that to vote on? >> It's already voted on. >> Oh, it's already voted. So okay. >> I mean you can vote again later on. So like this is all >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This can all be changed. >> Okay. 50
whizzing away here. >> Um page 50. Township treasurer. Uh this is me. This is my um other expense line item. Um so we took out municipal finance courses cuz
we don't need that. I have my CMFO. Um, my, uh, assistant is paying for her own classes. Um, so, uh, the budget went from 258952
to $1,749. Um, >> well, I think you win the award for the most percentage decrease in the departmental budget. >> Yeah, we had some bigger ones. And the tax assessor has the smallest OE budget, so he wins. Um,
>> we have to give you a trophy. Wait, we we don't do trophies anymore, right? >> No, we have no money. >> I'll come up. >> Uh, all in favor? >> Any opposed? Consent. So, I'm just going to take a second here
uh to ask everyone uh when we want to end tonight. It's clear we're not going to get through uh by 10:00. We are roughly halfway through. >> Well,
>> uh what is what's everybody's uh preference? Do you want to go to 9:00 or do you want to go to 10 o'clock? I'd like to go to 10 o'clock because I won't be here next week. >> Can we go to midnight? >> No. >> Yeah, because she's not going to be here next week.
>> Well, well, only because even though it seems like we're halfway, we're really better than we think because most of the other this like there's pages of like employee stuffs that really we shouldn't be need to really address.
>> Can we order in a pizza? Just kidding. You want to paint them? >> I mean, but that's >> I think we should power through and get it done. >> I hear a negotiation coming on. >> We'll leave out the window. >> I'm okay with whatever. >> Well, nobody ate, though. I don't know. Nobody ate.
>> We adjourn when the pizza arrives. >> I went home and ate early. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let's be serious. What What do we want to do? >> We're scheduled till 10 according to the 48 hour notice. So can and we cannot go over 10 if um
>> if we go past 11. Not that I want to do that tonight, but >> what would everyone like to do? Would you like to work to 10? Do you want to do sooner? Going to just >> I'm I'm fine working. I'm I'm good working. >> How about you, Councilwoman Scarpa?
>> Yeah, I'm fine. Whatever anybody wants to do, I'm good. Okay, let's uh >> if if we're cranky by 9:30, then we could re we could re have this conversation. But let's see how fast we go. >> Maybe we take a coffee break.
>> Maybe we go 9:30. I feel bad for Mr. Tenniac. >> How are you doing? >> Tuesday. I don't know. Tuesday was a lot. And then, you know, we're here >> quarter to 8 8:00. >> Yeah. >> And >> Okay. I mean,
>> so is there >> but I defer to Mr. >> I serve it the pleasure of you guys saying I don't but >> um whatever you want to do. >> Is there a mercy vote for Mr. Tatin? >> Whatever you want
I think we should at 9. >> Yeah. Okay. At 9. Yeah. >> I don't want to. Um >> Oh, it's 10 to 9 now. >> Yeah. Is there a an when is there time to to schedule another? >> You guys have to tell us >> like 10 minutes.
>> Can we can we meet on Monday? >> Do you have enough time to notice? >> I can't meet on Monday. >> I won't be here. >> Mr. Diny, what's good for you? Um, >> you just take if you something out of
>> Well, it's the next page. I just want to do the >> Yeah, we have library Yeah. And then >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino says she doesn't care >> about about your health. >> No. >> So, she wants to do another page before
we before we >> just in case I'm not here and you guys get together. >> That's that's what I tell you. talk about it. >> Said that >> he wished he'd spent more time with his family.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I I personally would like to spend more time with Mr. Tiniac's family. They are wonderful. >> They are. >> His wife is just so nice and she has a great voice. >> She does. >> She does.
>> Singing voice. I mean, she's a great >> telling her just be a famous opera singer so I don't have to work. Please. >> Okay. So, we've agreed I think we've agreed that we're going to call this the datiniac mercy rule. We're going to do one more page >> that 50.
>> Councilwoman Castleina wants >> sweet irony. It's me >> and then we're going to um >> Yeah, it has the plan on. >> Okay. So, we are we are >> 51 51. >> Yeah. >> At least >> that we end on how we're ending.
>> Yes. I just want to get I just want to get through 53, that's all. >> Okay. Um page 51. This is the comprollers's office. This is obviously me and my assistant and payroll and um I
will call her like my chief accountant even though it's keyboard clerk too. Um but that's really her function. Um the ask is $443,287. um a reduction from what it was in the previous year.
>> Any questions? >> Favor. >> Any opposed? >> Consent. >> What's next? Councilwoman Paselino. >> 53. >> We're not doing 52. >> 52. >> We just approve.
>> We just did 51. I'm sorry. I think we need to change this to the datiniac castelino signal. >> Page 52, accounts and controls. Um, we originally asked for $347,300
and uh there was a reduction of 14,500. Um, this budget is increased this year because of the implementation of Prime Point. So, it will go down in 2026.
Um and also Ed Edmonds is is added to this. So we have a lot of implementation one-year only costs. In 2026 this budget will come back down to earth. And I know it's a big ask. Um but I I know that
these two systems um will improve the reporting the financial transparency that I think everybody uh is requesting and wants. Um it's going to help us from an HR
perspective tracking FSLA which has become very difficult and tedious in our current uh manual um system if you can even call it that. Um these are two big asks. um they're going
to pay off uh for many years to come, but they have implementation costs and uh that's why this budget has increased so dramatically for this year. Like I said, it will come back down to life. Um I'm looking for our our bank to pay more
of our uh a cost associated with our payroll services. Um you know, we're going to be seeking an RFP out there for new banks. That's going to be one of the things that I'm requesting. Um, but again, what's driving the increase this year is
Prime Point and Edmonds and the the first year implementation costs. >> Is there any questions or comments? >> No. >> Yes. All in favor? >> Wait, wait, wait. >> Real quick, I know I I just want to >> I I just want to give my my professional
support behind Prime Point Edmonds. They're they're they're phenomenal systems. the analytics, the tracking is is is topnotch. So, I certainly support that professionally. Um, I'm sure the board would as well, and Mr. Tatin has has
moving in the right direction. >> Yeah, it's not even just the payroll, it's the the time and attendance, the approvals, um, making sure that we're tracking time earned by our employees because, as Mr. Charles knows there's
many different buckets of time uh and they acrew different ways and they last for different varying amounts of time and they pay out at different rates and you know prime point is going to be um it's it's better set up than the older
version of Kronos that we have right now in tracking all that time we have many different buckets limited time due the different comp times swap times personal time vacation time sick time um I mean there's just a million especially when you look in in the public safety sector.
Um so we're going to have better visibility on that um better tracking history that we don't have now with Kronos. So I'm excited for it because I know it's it's the best thing for the township
considering our size. Um so I don't I hate when budgets go up. Uh, I spent $40 on a dry erase board that still drive me crazy that it cost it was, you know, plus the markers and the eraser and everything. It still drive me crazy that it was that much money. Um, so I
don't like asking for more money, but I think these systems are um, you know, incredibly uh uh powerful and and necessary for us. Um, in the reduction side of things, we had a
reduction in in the regular audit expense. um the the previous auditor did a lot of work beyond the scope of the audit. Um which led to additional charges that sort of got buried in that line item. Uh same mine and company um
first of all it's a it's a better price than um than the former auditor uh and they don't do uh all that outside work. So it's strictly the audit and there's um some other reports related to the audit municipal court report. Um we have
them doing our required uh section 8 HUD um financial work. There's a HUD report they have to do uh and the animal control dog report. So >> Mr. Datiniac >> you had me at hello. >> Oh okay.
>> Is there any other comments? >> Madam clerk. >> All in favor? I >> any opposed consent. >> What's next? Counciloman Castelino 53 >> 53 >> my favorite page
>> page 53. >> Oh, okay. I know where I'm going with this. >> Yes. >> So, I appreciate you changing. We had on here the council um and I appreciate my colleagues uh support. We took economic development
out uh prior and on this page we were having a deputy department head and now this changed to full-time planner. >> Correct. >> Okay. So my concern was the level of the planner. So the the MA number didn't
change. The position code is still the same as a deputy uh department head. um that shouldn't this be a higher level for the position we were talking about and the quality of >> I don't think we have a professional planner in our salary ordinance. So it
would have to be it would have to be created. >> Okay. So could we fix that code and create that? >> Yes. Immediately >> with this all this after that meeting with the affordable housing um uh session we had the other night. >> Oh, we don't being recognized by the
chair. Just want to note that >> um >> um we will correct the position code. We'll remove the position code um because again I don't think we have that in the salary ordinance. Correct. >> Um >> okay. So we need to put that in and get
a ordinance created that we could pass. So, I would love, you know, for you to have everything you need in place to to uh start the hiring process if if you know, we're we did the our due diligence on our end. I was told we needed to do
and here we are doing it. So, I just want to make sure everything's lined up. So, we're able to power through and finally get this township a full-time planner. I have my hand up if anybody I can't tell with your >> Yes, I would like to
>> uh councilwoman Ruden has the floor. >> Okay, >> we'll get back to >> is this is this um professional planner under the director of planning. So, it's in the it's in the budget, but
as far as like the table of organization goes, I don't know how that all plays out. Um, I don't know if if Mr. Smaldo wants to comment on that. >> It's going to be it's going to be the
perview of the mayor. I I put it here because it I don't know planning department. So, full-time professional planner. I thought that would be this the spot to put it in. But as far as like who reports to who or or or how that's laid
out, I don't know. I don't know if that's a a Faulner Act just touched the microphone in my mouth. A Faulner Act uh requirement that they fall under a certain department. I really don't know. Um, I don't want to pretend to to know
that, but um >> Okay, we'll leave it. >> We'll change the >> I have a comment. >> You're done. >> Go ahead. >> I think we accomplished was that we put in a prrated amount for probably about,
you know, $180,000 salary or a little bit more. um which I I think it will end up falling you know into or coming out to be um but when we talk about oh do we have it >> so I'm looking at the salary ordinance
guide and I didn't see it under the >> unreent the employer management not not where I see >> Mr. Swaldo I'm I'm sorry to interrupt you with the air condition going uh could you just try to speak into the mic as loudly as you feel comfortable so that the audience can hear we can hear
fine but So, I just checked the uh salary ordinance guide that was the last one that was passed in December and I don't see under the unrepresented or or under the represented positions the position of the planner. So, that would probably
require us to do another salary ordinance guide, >> but I am looking on my phone. So, I'm trying to find it, but it's you know I don't it's 140 pages. So, u but I don't see it here. >> Yeah, I I go through that all that that big document all the time. I I don't
think it existed or >> moved years ago. >> So, we would have to >> we'd have to create >> have to do an ordinance and and bring it to you, but you know, we're going to have to decide with the mayor sort of where that individual falls into. Is it
>> sort of in the department head range or is it something special on its own like a municipal engineer? Um, so I I don't I don't have an answer for what that range will look like at this point, but I think we've put in funding
to cover a pretty significant salary for, you know, seven months or six months. >> As far as position code, you can't put a position code in there. Is that what you're stating, right? >> Yeah, I Yeah, I I should take that position code out and but the position
is a full-time professional planner and there's a funding for it. So, I don't think it can be confused for with anything else. >> Well, yeah, because the conversation we have, we want to make sure it's not an entrylevel um or inexperienced planner. We need
somebody that is seasoned. >> Well, I mean >> I mean, we could you could hire a full-time professional planner that is like six months out of school. I because I don't think that I don't think we want to do that. But I'm saying like I don't
think the position would dictate >> just be a waste of money. >> Yeah. I I think obviously we're looking for someone that can handle a community of this size and and diversity and you know with its housing obligation and all
that. So >> in fact is there a job des we have a job description as well with the with this salary ordinance when it's created? We >> will huh we'll create one. >> Great. Thank you. And if you know anybody
>> that you got a guy >> or gal >> Yeah. >> or non-binary or you know whatever it's >> I mean this has been a decade you haven't been here but it's been a decade long conversation that severely needs to end as my husband keeps telling me he's
tired of hearing it over the telephone. >> Um but Councilman you you're correct in that this is related to the 125. I'm sorry. No, no. I was just acknowledging the sign that Mr. Fagen holds up. That's that's what I was doing. It's no big
deal. Please, please finish, Mr. Tak. I'm sorry to distract. >> No, that that that was it. I'm just saying it was it was related to removing that $125,000 from planning board OE the economic development and planning coordinator line item. So, um there's a
net savings as well. Um >> yeah. Well, 125,000. Yeah. >> Well, it offsets. Uh, are you finished, Councilwoman? >> No. No. 125,000 because we replaced it from the uh the other open position, the
deputy chief position, but the economic development was a additional 125 that we uh knocked out. >> Yes. Councilman Scarpa. >> Yeah. I just want to make sure that it's reflected
accurately. not called a deputy department head, but it says planner. If we don't have a code, it says to be determined. Um, and I just want this all to be accurate before I vote for this budget. I also want Mr. Smearaldo to get back to us at the next meeting um on
whether how long this ordinance will take and the job description and the salary guide. I want, you know, to know exactly how >> counciloman I could if you're finished. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Yeah, that's just how quickly can it be accomplished?
>> So, the salary guide, we would we would once we create it, we would pre present it to you um and it would take two meetings um to be voted on, considered and and approved and 20 days afterwards to be in effect. And at that point, um if this budget is approved, we can uh
you know, we can start advertising and and hire the person if that's >> the case. Do we have to do any kind of ordinance or anything or is a salary salary guard? >> That's what I just said. Councilwoman, I don't know if I'm sorry if you didn't hear me. We will we would have to
prepare a salary ordinance guide which would include this position with its code and everything else and the range and it would be presented to you for consideration over two meetings. >> Okay, great. Thank you.
So I want to be sure that the council collaborates as closely as possible on this so that we have influence over this
whole position. Now, I want to I want to be sure that if the council approves this page with that line item tonight that we will continue to have
review or approval over this final issue because there in our in our opinion and I've discussed it with everybody on the council, there is a right way to do this that fits with what we want to do and there's a wrong way and we want to be
sure that it's done the right way. So, so I don't want to vote to consent to it authorizing this position. >> I we haven't we didn't do consent on this page yet. >> Correct. >> Correct.
>> Okay. We don't want to approve this position and then have no more say in what eventually happens here because we think that it's very important that we continue to collaborate with the mayor
and get this what we want because if we don't get it, it's just in our opinion it's probably going to be a lot of wasted money. So, what I'm trying to find out is if we approve this on consent tonight, whether this whole process of hiring somebody can happen
without us having a say in the whole process. >> I have my hand up. >> I know, but I'm waiting for the answer. Councilwoman, I'll get you. I'll get you. No problem. Promise. So I want to
be clear when you say that you have the whole say. So this is an administrative function of the mayor. >> Understand it completely. >> Okay. So I just want to make sure we're So we're speaking for the public. >> Understand completely. Yes. So, the council wishes to hire a full-time planner, and I have had conversations
with Councilwoman Castelino um about this as well, and that the mayor is looking to support this in a way, but at the end of the day, it has to be this has to go in here, and there's some other things that have to
be attributed to this. So, you know, without getting into specific details, um, but I have conversations with the mayor that if things are moving forward, that she will move forward with this process. And part of this process was
that the council places this into the the budget. Once it's in the budget, it gets adopted and we go and um and advertise and hire and we'd have to also do a salary guide. we would move forward. But there are
other outstanding factors that may or may not contribute to this. But this is part of the process that the mayor has agreed to infringement and I can say that to you. Okay? So that's that's my assurances to you at this point. Okay? And I spoke to the council woman too
when we go to do the um uh the advertisement that we will share what what we're looking for in part of the hiring process. You know, as far as the job description, so so we can we can share with you what the job description
will look like. The one thing I can't assure you is who the candidates going to be, what they're going to be. So, but we will do our due diligence in advertising and things of that nature. I don't want to speak uh for my fellow council members.
>> So I hope that I've I've answered what you're looking >> we have two major concerns. One is the job description. We want we the council want to have a say in this and we understand that this is administrative function
>> and legally we don't have any legal right to be involved in this but we definitely want to be involved in this in creation of the job description so that we get the person that we think and hopefully that we agree with the mayor
on what the township needs. The second issue is where this person is placed within the organization. And again, we recognize it's an administrative function, but we think where this person sits in our organization can have a
substantial impact and a potentially negative substantial impact on who the quality of the person that we can hire. And so uh I don't again I don't want to speak to for uh my other colleagues but those two issues are very important to
me to get the type of person that we think the township needs. >> So to to answer your both your questions I will I will commit to you that I will share the job description with you. I don't think that's a a difficult lift and we we can do that. I I I don't think
that's a a big issue. Um to actually where the person is going to land. I'm not going to commit to that tonight because again that is the mayor's purview. Yes. >> But I but I will guarantee you that I will have that conversation with the mayor and I've had that conversation with the mayor. So um so I just don't
want to make that that particular commitment to you. But I will make sure that once we know that this is going to go be placed in here. And if you decide to place this in here, we will start to look at making the salary ordinance guide and to start looking to to uh get
the the job description ready for availability. We're not going to advertise until this is actually approved because if the money is not approved, then then obviously we can't hire someone. So, so we would not and once the budget is adopted, we could start and we and if we know that the budget's going to be adopted, we can
start advertising for that person because I don't want to advertise for somebody and then also we don't have it, >> right? And I'm not really focused on that. I'm focused on what are the big steps that need to be done where the council is comfortable with the decision
about what the job description and what the duties of this person would be and where they sit in the organization. And what I don't want to happen is for us to authorize this position and then we have no more say in what's going on because
we recognize that this is administrative function >> and so we don't have any legal rights here. But we also think this is a great opportunity to demonstrate collaboration between the mayor, her administration, and the council. And if we can't get
that, then I I don't want to waste everybody's time and money that I just want to make it clear and I'm not trying to be negative, but those are the things that are important to me. I don't know about our other my colleagues. >> So So again, you know, I've had this conversation plenty of times with Councilwoman Castelino, and I and I've
assured her that I am pushing behind this along. Um and I can tell you that I'm pushing this along. Um, but I can't tell you if the mayor is going to 100% endorse it because this is her conversation. This is her, you know, still it's under a purview. But I will
tell you that the the mayor has agreed in principle to move forward with this and that that I can say for certainty. Okay. Um, and I think in a just thinking out out loud right now, we know that we're going to be meeting on September 30th for the for the second for the
second final introduction. I would suggest that we get everything in play for that meeting, including the introduction of the final reading and the introduction of the of the um the salary ordinance guide. We'll have the advertise if you pass it on first
reading, we'll we'll advertise the position because then by the time we get to the second meeting, you'll pass it and by the time we hire somebody, it takes it's not going to happen overnight to hiring. But I think that may be a fair enough plan to share with everybody here and for your consideration. And if you think that's a a fair enough
consideration, that's something we should move forward with. I don't want to bring you a salary orders guide in o August 12th or September 8th when we don't know if the budget's going to be finally passed. I think that's in fairness to everybody for either to work and and everything else. And that's something we can also talk offline about
getting that ready ahead of time. But I'm throwing that out here now in the general public so that we're we're discussing this openly. >> Yes. Uh and again, I just want to make myself clear because those were the two important points to me. I think uh Councilwoman Castelino and then
Councilwoman Ruden have the floor next. Please go ahead. >> I've had my hand up, too. >> I apologize. So, let's go to Councilwoman Scarpa first. >> Okay. >> Okay. I don't recall the the order, but please. >> Right. Councilwoman Scarpa, >> I really feel that 30 days is a
reasonable time for us to have a draft of the ordinance of the for the salary guide. And I believe we should hold off until we have that draft and then we have plenty of time to put this in the budget. But I believe we should have
some goodwill here and we should be working more collaboratively and 30 days is more than enough time to draft this. Every other township has a planner. Go look at their job description. We should not be procrastinating any longer.
>> Thank you. Councilwoman, are you are you complete with your comment? >> Again. >> Okay. Thank you, Counciloman Castelino. So, I I'm okay with the TBD on the planner. If this needs to be moved off
this page at the next session, we could always move it, but I like to at least get the keep it with the at least having the position for now. Um, also like if so, are we still in need of of line 070
on page 54? We have uh $30,943 um budgeted there for a township planner too. >> So that was my other you know question. >> I know we were I said only go to 53 but that but that's part of
>> this department. So I don't know is that where consulting money is coming out of and just and again the the reason why I think council president did a a great job articulating a lot of frustration on the council's part and I'll speak for myself too is is
not on individuals or even uh consultants it's just we really just need a dedicated human upstairs you know doing this job uh 5 days a week
every day just this job alone and that's where I've you know been seeing in you know where we see things with inconsistencies I think that would really help like I said it's been a 10-year uh over decade conversation
>> odyssey that's that's what you mean say odyssey >> but um but again with that line there what are you going to do at line 070 know township planner on page 54. >> Let's see what we've spent already
against the line and we'll have that answer. >> So that's how we've been paying consultants that weren't approved. Okay. >> Okay. I'm good. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Um
Mr. Moraldo, you have said several times you will share the job description with us. Is that does that mean that we also will have input into the job description or that you will share with us just as we get at the council meetings a
general, you know, um our RFQ? >> I'm going to share that with you so you can review and and whatever suggestions you have, we'll look at it. And I think and I and I've had these conversations with the council president. um we are trying to build that kind of
relationship. So I think this is maybe a project that we could work on. I'm not going to guarantee you that every single thing that you want in that what you ask is is practicable because we don't know what what it's going to be. But it's not saying it wouldn't be under consideration. And I and I think that
would be I think that's a fair enough way to say that >> open to look to see suggestions and take them into consideration. And I'm not I'm not it's not going to be just what we say it is. There may be some things that we have to look for that we're look you know and I have to talk to our professionals too to see what what they
want included into this this person. >> Sure. >> So I I so I can say to you councilwoman that >> yes I will look at your take in your considerations and and we'll address them and hopefully we can come up with something together.
>> Okay. And we al we also had a very clear organizational chart before when we did have a full-time planner. And I would like to request that that same organization go back in place because what was created after the professional planner
left was not what was running this town for years and years and years before. Well, again, that I think that again goes back to what the mayor wants, and I'm not going to I'm not going to answer that question for you tonight only because I I have to consult with the mayor.
>> Understood. Councilman Scarpa. >> Yes. I'd like to ask Mr. Smearaldo if he agrees that 30 days is a reasonable time for us to give us a draft for the planner >> to get Councilwoman, all due respect, that's not going to happen. I I just
laid out a plan. I just laid out a plan when where I said that once we get past this budget and I asked you to consider it is that we look to I can't guarantee that today is July 24th at by August 24th. I'm not saying we can't get it
prepared but if we don't have everything in place by the September 8th meeting. It will be a fruitless exercise. I I will commit to you that we will get this work done um if we are moving forward. I will commit to you that you will get copies of it. Um and and I will make
sure that that happens. But just to to put an arbitrary date of 30 days, I I'm not going to make that commitment to you because I don't want to I don't want to say something to you that I don't deliver on. >> I will deliver if if all this goes through, I will have this delivered to
you. I And that I can assure you about. >> Well, I don't want to approve this page unless there's a reasonable effort. So, I'd like to ask you to make that effort. If there's a problem, let us know. And I don't want to approve this page today. >> Okay. >> That that's your prerogative, Councilwoman. I I I'm making that
commitment that I'm going to work with you on this. I I think I've said that enough here tonight that I will work with you on it, but I just I I'm not going to commit to a 30-day uh time frame and it doesn't get done. It will be done in the time frame that we've
discussed so that we can move forward. Um, and I and I am backing to to push this position as I clearly articulated to everybody. I and and Councilwoman Castelino could tell you that because I've been speaking to her for the last several uh I think once a day.
>> Um, for the last once a day. >> I'm not asking I'm not asking for a drop dead. >> I call her house now. She says, "Tony, hold on. >> I'm not asking for a drop dead date. I'm asking for a reasonable effort to get it done in 30 days. If you're having a
problem, let us know what that problem is. But I'm asking for a reasonable effort. >> I Councilwoman, I will commit to a reasonable effort. I will promise you that will happen. I'm just not going to commit to a date. All right? I I promise you this will get we will get move this forward. >> I I trust Mr. Smaldo.
>> So, >> I don't want to be I don't want to lie to you if it's not done in 30 days. I I I'm being honest with you. I'm being upfront with you. So, >> Okay. Well, I want to hold see what happens. >> Yeah. I I'm holding off on I think we should hold off on this voting on this until we
>> we are. >> Okay. >> If if this is in the t time frame, what is I mean if this is in the budget, what is your time frame? I'm I'm not clear. >> Well, so that what I said before is that so we don't we can't move forward if if Mr. Deniac said at the last meeting that
we're looking to have se September 30th as the adoption. Correct. So we would then have the money in the budget. So if my what I said to you earlier was that if we can get this created if we if we know we're moving forward with this I will have for first reading the salary
ordinance guide at the September 30th meetings which you will I'm I'm assuming everybody will approve because we're going to I'm I'm assuming it may be approved. Uh >> right, right. I'm making the assumption, council president, that we're we're moving forward with this and at that point we will have had created the
salary job or um uh the salary um sorry the job description prepared. We can then if we know we're going to adopt we can then start advertising. I can't advertise and hire persons if there's no money in the budget. So, so I think that's I think that's where we have that
fair timeline of September 30th so that we we have our marching orders. We would have everything prepared before the 30th so that we can proceed with that. And I think that's that's a time frame that works only because we only have August
12th and we only have September 8th and then we have September 30th for for these meetings. We only have three meetings to get this accomplished anyway. It's not If we have more meetings involved, you know, if we had another meeting in August, we could move up that timeline, but we're kind of
tied. >> Okay. >> So, Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yeah, I still think this is a very easy document to put together. I could probably do it myself with, you know, and I think, you know, September 8th at the very latest. I mean, this is
ridiculous, this procrastination. I I think we need more of an effort. How much more? If the money's not there, why don't you pass it? >> Yeah, council. Yeah, we we gota we got to pass the money tonight. We're not going to vote on it. So, again, we we
it's get we're now pushing 9:30, >> which can I ask you a question? If we have a sal salary ordinance in place earlier as councilwoman Scarpa is requesting, it doesn't obligate you to fill the fill the role. Why not get this
done earlier? and and we got to respond to her request. >> Just to perhaps clarify, he's not saying he's not going to do that. >> He's just not committing to a specific date of what he wants to do. >> I'm committing to get the work done. I'm
just saying, you know, if we're not going to have it ready, why are we going to go Why are you going to go through the I'm also trying to save you work. Why are you going to go through the exercise of introduction and everything else and then so I mean if you want to vote on it earlier but we could vote on it earlier but it's not going to we have
no money to fulfill it. So that's correct. So that's all that's all I'm just saying that's you know. >> Okay. Well, I hear what she's saying in the in the Ethernet and I think that putting it forward with the salary ordinance doesn't do uh any harm and it
will move us forward in the process. Otherwise, we are we are stuck at the date that you suggested which was September 30th that we're first doing the ordinance and then we have to wait and put out the RFQ. So, I would like to >> we're not first of all we're not putting
out an RFQ. We're going to be putting out a job description. We cannot hire anybody unless there's money that's been approved in the budget. The next council meeting after the 30th is October for 16 is the 16th. >> By the time we advertise, by the time we
we we bring in people to uh interview and hire. Realistically, we're not going to be having somebody on board anyway till late October as it is. So the salary ordinance will match with being approved will be matching with the time
the person gets cleared. That's all. It's just it's just it's just from our experience of what is it you know if we if if we if if it makes everybody feel happier if we want to try and get it for this the September meeting we'll put on for September meeting but it's just
we're not guaranteeing that this is going to be passed. I I think I think that you can see that there's unanimous support for this position. >> Absolutely. >> And there is plenty of time to put together a salary ordinance that could
be on the agenda on August 12th. >> And at the same time, a job description could be written and gotten out there. We are in a crisis of planning here in West Orange and that's why we are all
standing together and asking for this to be moved forward. So can can I request that this be on the ordinance for this salary since it's quite obvious that we are all going to support this? >> I I understand you supported it. There's
there's one factor as I I keep mentioning I need to go back to the mayor and get the final approval. So before I commit to anything I I'm telling you what my personal commitment to this project is and I'm going to push it as far and and what we can. Okay. So
that that I can assure you with that >> you have been crystal clear over and over again and I appreciate it. So um I think we've drained that particular portion of this discussion. I would like to ask >> I have one more question. I would like to ask Mr. Charles
if the board has considered this and if you can bring any insight uh from your uh the board's perspective on this. >> The advisory board for the budget has has
supported the uh the you the planning position. I can also tell you that the economic development um committee has also supported that um and we've we said that to the mayor as well. Um we have not looked at any of the particulars as
far as salary salary or all that where that reports to that's not underneath our purview. So u we are supportive of of the position. We believe it's necessary for where we are now as a as a town and both economically and u planning wise. Um, but we're advisor
role, so we're just, you know, we're supportive of the position, but everything else, I guess, is between the administration, the mayor, and the council. >> Yes. And for those of you who uh aren't familiar with uh um he is also the chair of the economic
development uh commission. So that's why he's able to speak authoritatively uh on that issue as well. So he was >> and we will both both both commissions if need be we will help and assist uh the council the administration as far as
>> crafting any documents or any research or any survey that that or data that's needed. >> Okay. Councilwoman Scarpa, did you have something else other than the request for a more defined timeline? >> Yes. Um you know as I provided you
planners Mr. Moraldo for the affordable housing. I am totally willing to provide you with a job description for a professional planner and assist you. And my second question is, do we have a job description from Susan Borg? And why not
use that as a template moving forward? >> Too too old. Too old. >> That's I'm sorry, C. First of all, Councilwoman, I didn't hear I I didn't I apologize the air condition kicked on. I didn't hear the first question, but the answer >> I said that I was happy I said I was
happy to support you in providing you planners for the affordable housing um issue and I'm happy to provide you with a job description for a planner for you to use as a template to expedite the
process. >> If you want to send it to me, I I I'll read it. Thank you. >> Okay. And and I thought we could use Susan Borg's job description to start. I I the only thing council I want I don't know if we have Susan Miss Borg's uh job description. I believe she was hired in
93. Uh so and I don't know if it it would be current to today's u requirement. So but we'll look for it. >> I'll be happy to find something for you to get you started. >> I would appreciate it. Thank you. >> No. Can I get a commitment to have the
just the request for this salary position on uh April I'm sorry August 12th. >> I'm not going to commit to that because I as I said I have to speak to the mayor about it. >> It's just it's just an allocation. >> I understand you asked me if I was going to commit. I can't administrative
because it's administrative. >> It's administrative function and I need I need the approval of the mayor. So I for the mayor >> I I councilwoman all I can tell you is that I have been behind. I've been pushing this. Councilwoman Castelina will tell you I am I'm trying to drive this forward. I am and trust me I am I
under I recognize this as well >> and so that that has been my position all along >> but at the end of the day I still report to the moon. So >> yes indeed. So I'm going to close this off so uh we can may stood on our promise half an hour ago on the mercy
roll. >> Yes, I tried. >> I know. So, uh, we're going to adjourn the meeting and, uh, >> is there a motion to adjurnn? >> I'm I make a motion. Oh, wait, wait. Do we talk about calendar? >> We need a date for the next meeting before we
>> Mr. Dinacc, what availability do you have uh, next week? >> I don't know if we have anything anything available next week because I know I can't do Monday. We're meeting with the library board. Um, Oh,
>> can we do during the day at any point? >> I'm available. >> During day, you're available. >> That works for anybody. I don't know. >> Councilwoman Celina can bring her granddaughter >> maybe Tuesday afternoon during the day. >> I have we have a 4:30 library on Tuesday
afternoon. So if you want to start it like 1:00 at 12:00 12:00 we'll bring pizza. >> All right. It's a deal. >> We don't have money in the budget for that. >> No pizza. >> I will pay for the pizza. I'll buy pizza. >> Um so what day is that? Please.
>> Tuesday. >> Can CBA >> at noon, right? Yeah. >> Oh, wait. He has a meeting. >> No, no, no. I said can CBA C >> CBA be there? I I will not be able to probably during the day, but I'll talk
to the members. Maybe another members can be. >> Okay. >> Okay. Let's do tentative at noon on >> Well, I have to notice it. So, we have to I need to >> move pretty quickly. Yeah. >> Correct. I won't be in tomorrow, but I can have Miss I can have Miss Kaz Kazinski do it for me. So,
>> and and that's 12 till 4. >> And then if that doesn't work, do we want to come up with a plan B? Is there another time next week? Uh, >> anything Monday during the day?
>> Monday during the day. >> I can't do Monday. We got >> We already have Tuesday, Wednesday. >> 31st. >> I'm out after Tuesday. >> No. 31st.
>> This Tuesday after Tuesday. have to say. Yeah. I got >> Oh, >> what about Thursday or Friday? >> Want to do Friday? >> Yeah, why not? >> Yeah, do 12:00 on Friday next week. >> Sure. >> I I can't make it, but you guys are more
than welcome to >> do 12 4 again on Friday. >> Sure, why not? >> Monday and Friday. >> Okay. >> Days. >> That's good. Or >> wait, Tuesday and Friday. >> I'm sorry, Tuesday. Yeah. Tuesday, Friday, the 29th and the 1st.
>> The 24th. >> Good. Tuesday the 29th, 12th to 4. Friday the 1st, 12 to 4. >> Yep. >> Perfect. >> Do you want me to just make the announcement again? >> Oh, sorry. Tuesday, July 29th, 12 12
noon to 4:00 p.m. and Friday, August 1st, 12:00 noon to 4 p.m. for the next two budget workshops. >> And if you have any ideas for amending the agenda that I think was handed out to everyone, please uh please uh send it
to both Mr. Tiniac and me. We'll get that updated. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Is there a second? >> Second. I >> a second. >> I >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? >> The meetings adjourn. The workshops
adjourned. >> Thank you everybody. They