##VIDEO ID:gCXXOLQqpII## a [Music] [Music] [Music] good evening West Orange uh those joining us in person and those joining us virtually Welcome to our uh Tuesday September 10th regular meeting uh we are um well actually Madam clerk you can start us off thank you this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams present council president Rutherford here mayor McCartney pleas uh we usually do that at the public if you want to do it yeah let's just do it get it on the way will everyone please rise for the St uh Pledge of Allegiance United States standy and justice for all thank you madam clerk you're welcome um our first order of business tonight is to uh issue the oath of office uh and wel welcome our new Chief Financial Officer Mr John DAC uh Madame mayor thank you council president and thank you all for being here this evening for this occasion um as we welcome our new Chief Financial Officer to the township of West Orange and to me it's a transformative threshold that we're on right now we have pending movie production Studios we have um on tonight's agenda electric shuttle buses which we've been looking for the direction for the township and this pending Target application that everyone is very excited about so it's an exciting time so John and Kaitlyn if you would come up and join us John you you that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of state ofur and that I will bear true faith and that I will bear true faith the andion to the Saint and to the governments established in the United States and to the governments established in the United States and and this under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do furtherly swear I do furtherly swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully and partially partially and justly perform and justly perform all the duties of the position Chief Financial Officer all the duties of the position of Chief Financial Officer best is a daddy's good very nice uh good evening uh mayor council president Council and those watching at home and and here in the audience um I'll be very brief uh I want to just say I'm I'm very honored and very excited uh to take the Reigns of the finance department starting uh this Monday the 16th um and everything I I said in my oath I I swear to do and um and I I know we're going to have a really great time here and we're going to do amazing things um just like West Orange is known for just doing the most amazing things and I'm very happy to be a part of that um thank you to my wife and my children for for being here and for being good and and sitting here and I know how difficult that can be this guy looks like he's lounging with that um just thank you very much and and and thank you for having faith in me uh to give me this uh position so thank you you welcome Mr DC we are certainly looking forward to your tenure here and wish you uh much success as you serve the people of West Orange um Madame mayor Proclamation voter registration day good thank you council president Council What We Are proclaiming Tonight is September 17th as National voter registration day the right to vote serves as a foundation of our nation and the right to vote freely fairly and to have our vote counted is sacred to being an American whereas each year on the United States millions of eligible voters are unable to vote due to missing a registration Deb line or because their registration was not updated after a name change or moving or because of confusion around the registration process right now the right to vote is being suppressed and subverted in this country by attempts to restrict Americans access to the ballot which is rolling back Decades of voting rights progress National voter registration day was created in 2012 as a nonpartisan rally for the nation to promote voter registration and since that time more than 5 million citizens have registered to vote on the annual holiday including a record-breaking 1.5 million in 2020 alone on Tuesday September 17 2024 thousands of Partners ranging from local libraries and college campuses to National nonprofits sportun 500 companies Silicon Valley Tech Giants and more will join forces for a single day of celebrating our democracy and the voting public that makes it possible a coordinated Nationwide Civic effort and traditional media online and face-to-face voter engagement in communities across the country will drive unparalleled awareness to voter registration opportunities to Millions who may not otherwise register so on September 17th National voter registration day is the best chance to get hundreds of thousands of IND individuals registered to vote in the United States and shift into full on 2024 election mode whereas the offices of the President and Vice President of the United States all seats on the United States House of Representatives and 34 seats of the United States Senate are on the ballot on November 5th as are certain New Jersey County and Municipal seats so therefore I Susan Carney mayor of Township of West Orange proclaimed SE September 17 2024 as National voter registration day and affirm the Township's commitment to holding free and fair elections and to urge all citizens to register to vote amen okay please thank you say a few words and here's your fi here introduce yourself Rosen swag Rosen swager resident of West Orange and want to invite everybody there is a um Community Civic action day here in Livingston join us anytime between 11: and 2 pm it's at Temple Benet Abraham in Livingston and there's going to be postcard writings there's going to be speakers uh help get out the youth vote help college students who may not know where to register engage in a lot of local act efforts with the League of Women Voters we have a lot of sponsors for this and there are Flyers outside so we invite you to invite all of your friends and family it's very important and I thank specifically um the mayor and Town Council for thinking this is important enough to have a proclamation for National voter registration day thank you so much uh thank you madam mayor we are now going to introduce the new general manager for Rock Spring Golf Club uh who's handling that Duty you can come up here thank you ladies and gentlemen of the council uh I just wanted to quickly introduce Patrick hence who is your new general manager I am the vice president of operations for keer sports uh I manage their properties in New Jersey I'm actually fairly new to keer Sports uh but not new to golf so been getting uh been getting educated throughout the summer of Rock Spring uh as many of you know Chris Parker uh took a wonderful opportunity uh in the Philadelphia area he has big shoes to fill we spent a very long process searching for a GM that would be representative of of what we want to see at Ro spring and uh this gentleman Patrick H whom I've worked for for quite some time was that person so I I wanted to intr uce you all you'll probably see me too from from time to time whenever we're invited but we're excited to be here how you doing my name is Patrick I'm the general Manor for Rock Springs um or Rock Spring uh I'm excited to be here um thank you to the town for um everything that you've done for Rock Spring uh so far and um we're excited to be here and work with you in the future um you know only 30 days away from the 5K that's going to be hosted at Rock Springs so um hopefully there's a couple more events that we'll be able to do to help out in the future as well so thank you we should do another one to John as well we'll come down helps I was trying to think of a good line I'm like uh got good ear old I we got the other nice restaurant yeah exp that's like pry so [Music] all right um now we have a few more minutes for our Council on announcements no I missed it you guys uh will start with councilwoman cleine sure thank you council president so um as liaison to the West Orange Board of Education and as a a former parent in the school district uh schools are in so everyone drive safely we have a lot of new crosswalks across the township um and please pay attention to them you see that blinking light you need to stop look for The Pedestrian in the walkway and do not cut off any buses that are stopping to to pick up children so we've already got some emails from folks and um you know it it's we have a lot of speed bumps in town I I thank the our uh Township engineer um she's been all all over the township or or uh patrolman uh with the chief and keeping in touch there um but you know it's up to us us uh drivers unfortunately we're a big cut through uh in the county and but the for us that live here we really need to pay attention because as um you know been a lot of time going door Todo this season um hearing a lot of folks concerned about the traffic on streets that are just so quieter so that's it you know for technology the GPS's have Disturbed a lot of our once quiet neighborhoods so please please please do your part and keeping our children safe um also I just want to thank uh the members of the downtown Alliance and some members of the public relations commission for a great summer uh they worked really hard this summer we had great events on the downtown Thursdays they were team efforts which all involved and uh we look forward to planning the next Halloween event uh right now uh our downtown uh executive director she couldn't be here tonight but she'll be here next week um they'll be working uh with the the beautification committee uh they have already started go canvasing going up and down Main Street and looking at some ways to improve if you haven't been over by uh Supreme Bakery in that parking lot look in the the alleyway we call it the Edison Alleyway and there's a beautification project that we received a grant from last spring um so please go look at that beautiful hanging artwork just to bring a little chair uh to that part of the township thank you council president thank you councilwoman councilwoman gbra Michael good evening everyone um the Rena board met today and it was a very light agenda um and The Pedestrian safety Advisory board meeting that's scheduled for tomorrow is cancelled and is being rescheduled to September 25th and that concludes my Council a on announcements I hope all the kids have a wonderful school year and that you all had a great summer um and Happy fall when it arrives councilwoman staru thank you um the economic development um has not met did not meet this month and we meeting the end of the end of this month coming up so we'll have more to tell you about that next month and the environmental commission as well we were off a little bit for the summer but uh last month the older adults advis board is in um full force we were able to take our seniors on another trip to see the West Orange Community band at OAC thanks to Mr fanino and Laura van djk for once again making it possible for our seniors to get out and around to enjoy some of the wonderful concerts in our town our little couple from the degman house that that were their date this was their second date now and hopefully we will be able to get them out again next month because we want to get the seniors out for JazzFest as well so we've been able to get them out every month to enjoy some of the beautiful activity at ozac and I want to thank Camille becko too for really welcoming them in a way that made them feel special um also our older adults Advisory Board subcommittee is working on Transportation which Communications and transportation have always been the two major issues for seniors we've been looking at various options including on demand Transportation as some of our surrounding communities are doing and uh I even sent the mayor a grant opportunity that I found for transportation so let's keep our fingers crossed and hope something will happen with that so and that's about it thank you councilwoman councilwoman Wills thank you council president I'd like to welcome all of our West orang students parents families back to school I am excited about uh this school year mostly because I have a senior in college and that means no more tuition after this year so I'm extremely excited um but want to welcome all of our families back to a prosperous productive and enjoyable school year uh the H uh the historic preservation commission meets uh tomorrow at 700 p.m. via Zoom so all those who are interested in historic preservation um please join that meeting it is an open public meeting um the West Orange Arts Council Center is still soliciting Latin artist um for their uh fall exhibit so if you have any connections or know of anyone who has any talent and that may be of the Latin uh descent please encourage them to contact our Arts Council and submit their work uh the municipal Alliance committee uh met last month and as school starts back um we have a liaison that serves on that committee from seatan Hall Prep as well as from West Orange High School our West Orange High School uh liaison to the municipal Alliance committee graduated from the high school last year with a 4.2 GPA is now a freshman at George Washington University after serving um as an intern for me this summer so we will be looking for a liaison student liaison from West Orange High School uh to join the municipal Alliance committee and if you don't recall um that committee focuses on ways that we can connect uh drug prevention alcohol prevention um to our schools and that goes from our elementary age appropriate uh education all the way to our high school so if you're interested again we'll be putting out information at the high school and just reach out and let us know that you're interested um as mentioned earlier in our announcements our run for wac highlighting Suicide Prevention and awareness is coming up on October 6th I want to thank all of our sponsors we have a tremendous amount of sponsors this year this is our fifth year and also just note that this month September is suicide prevention and awareness month and there is help for us we have the new text service which is 988 which is available to anyone who is having any type of Crisis or concern if you need help if you don't know who to call if you don't know what to do it's available 24 hours a day on call you can remain anonymous um but there is someone on that other end who can provide you with resources and support services always remember that you do not have to struggle with any mental health um issues we are never alone there is always someone to support whatever it is you're going going through um also uh coming up next uh the 8 the 16th if I'm not mistaken the third week of September is the Grassroots Foundation uh green Grassroots founded Community Foundation their Green Ribbon Week um which is also done at the high school so that starts next week on the 16th through the 20th there will be a myriad of activities um we'll get that information posted on the municipal website because each day um you're asked to just do some something so that you can highlight um mental Wellness with our youth and there is an activity each day and again we've partnered with the Grassroots Community Foundation for this activity um for the past four years and they partner um with other municipalities as well um so again just taking that time to realize that you can just relax breathe um and take a moment before um anything um unnecessary or unwarranted um may come into play also just wanted to thank our uh Senior Services Group for the amazing awesome endof year picnic at Jenny Duncan pool last week um they even had a surprise guest visit by an Elvis uh impersonator but he was really great so I don't want to say impersonator but that was such a good time um thanks the parks to the Parks and Recreation Department and Senior Services um for coming together um for that I think that completes all of uh my liaison announcements thank you council president you're welcome councilwoman um want to thank the economic development committee for inviting me to their last meeting which was in July uh where we brought together some uh Tech leaders uh we had three uh companies represented in that meeting uh very excited about um infusing more technology into our downtown helping uh to create an identity for West Orange uh and are working with uh one of the New Economic Development Consultants from the Nishu group uh so looking forward to building on that this month as well uh and I think when we are ready to make an announcement in that regard the entire Community will be excited um the insurance uh committee met we only have one issue to deal with over the summer um so we only we only dealt with it that one issue um planning board has been very busy um so in addition to hearing the 410 Main Street project uh which was at our last meeting um tomorrow night we are having a special meeting uh with regard to uh West Essex Highlands so uh for those of you that are interested in that project please do uh join us uh tomorrow night for the special meeting on West Essex Islands um joint meeting will meet as as uh scheduled later this month and I think that that's it for Miley aison announcements and look at that we've got three minutes to spare look at that look at that look at that one minute back clock is on yeah that's two minutes fast we're laid on the other one yeah we have could we have the clocks fixed that one's ahead and this one's president may I uh in the minute that we have I just like to make a a fun fact as long as it's not about the Giants on Sunday no no no no thank you um from my perspective as you know I sit over here and uh during the um course of the council meeting there is an average change of the traffic light on the corner of 650 times during the course of the council meeting so I'm hoping that we can improve on that average but I I just want to point that out as a fun fact for the uh studio audience at home I I have a question how do you know uh well I uh I I take a um a five minute s sample size and extrapolated out for the uh amount of hours in the meeting and come up with an average uh that I divided and and I keep it chart of my office uh you are you are a gentleman and a scholar thank you sir council president I was remiss I wanted in my announcements um last week we uh lost uh someone who represented West ore very well Congressman Bill Pascal and I would just like to uh in minute to take a moment of silence for him he had served our community well for many many years when he did cover our district I had the opportunity to work with him uh he assisted us uh when I was on the school board in uh having the mountainer um Cadet program the RTC the junior RTC program come to West Orange High School he was instrumental in uh in that so uh lovely lovely gentlemen great uh commun uh servant and I just want to send our consoles to him his family yeah I Echo that sentiment he was a the definition of a servant um in my other role as Pastor um when he heard about our job fair several years ago uh and this is going back prec covid um he just showed up on a Friday night just to be helpful and supportive we didn't have to call them we didn't have to ask um and you know he he just uh you know so we certainly did lose a giant of a servant may he rest in peace uh and certainly let's have a moment of silence thank you thank you look at that seven on the dot Madam clerk can we go into our public meeting yes this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman celino present councilwoman gber Michael pres councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams present council president Rutherford here we have already done the pledge pledge of allegiance uh we are going to begin with our uh public comment um as always we will begin with Mr Fagan followed by Mr blei uh thank you council president I I just want to start out if uh anyone heard a helicopter around town this morning uh not to beow armed that there was a film crew in skies above West Orange filming this morning and they had all the proper permits in place so they were exactly where they belonged so no one should be uh should be alarmed um West St schools open September 4th uh as councilwoman celino mentioned um let's be aware of that a stop for the school bus drive safely let's keep our our children safe um and of course we all know the rules about school buses uh yes getting stuck behind one can become inconvenient uh but let's remember un keep in mind the uh safety of the school children uh boarding and onboarding the bus uh also as was mentioned there are um pedestrian crosswalks uh in West Orange there's eight of them total three on West Orange one in front of uh Duncan Donuts one in front of the community house seen here and one in front of uh the Edison National Historical site and they are pedestrian activated and when you see that light flashing you are obligated to stop uh to the as a driver until The Pedestrian clears the uh clears the crosswalk uh we have an open house coming up uh for the West Orange fire department uh that's not till October October 6th but there is a um uh K you can go on the website and there is a contest where you can uh I believe it's for uh grammar school grades I I forget the uh age but it's on the website and you can uh enter a drawing in the contest but the open house itself is Sunday October 6th uh from 11: to 3M uh as was mentioned we had a fabulous day at the annual senior picnic uh Laura van djk uh always reserves good weather for that day and this year was no exception and as Council woman Williams indicated there was a Elvis impersonator uh I think it actually was Elvis himself but I I I don't know uh he he he was very good um and everyone had a good time now I want to draw your attention to the lower leftand uh photo there that's our own officer grandos delivering uh leverages to the community and he's going to have a tray of them later at the council meeting here so everyone should stick around uh also this this past August um the Community Services Unit that's uh officer BR us there once again they uh helped distribute donated supplies to Kickstart the school year now there are no kids in the picture here uh and that's for security and safety reasons but it was well attended uh by uh kids and family and they were given a backpack of um notebooks pens pencils uh and everything need to uh to get off on the right foot in the new school year uh if on our website there's a couple of notices uh for Carter Street Ronald Terrace uh Terrace Avenue there might be a few others of U milling and um road work uh you know if you live on any of these streets uh please uh check out the restrictions because there are some parking restrictions uh during the Milling operation and you may have to remove your car uh coming up on September 22nd at West Orange High School I believe this is the 14th annual it doesn't stay there say it there but I believe it's the 14th annual it's stop for Nel uh Drive smart save a life you know this isn't just about uh raising awareness uh which it is but it's also a call to action for the community to uh help keep us safe here uh and you know uh understand and respect the stop sign uh so this is a run a walk and a bike and it takes place at the West Orange High School September 22nd uh also uh as Council one Williams mentioned before the five 5K run for uh wasac uh at the Rock Spring Country Club that's October 6th uh and there's uh still sponsorship information available you can contact Council Will Williams uh to uh come on board with that um these are the uh West orang fire department numbers for August uh selected uh categories here uh the total calls across all categories uh was down uh to 650 before during the month of August uh EMS calls as you might well imagine uh top out at the most uh also these are the West orang Police Department figures for July and uh the average there is at the end um and uh they pretty much uh stay the same um up down up down up down but the reporting source is January through July um also mention on October 6th we have a shredding day now October seems the long way way off and it is uh however that day tends to sneak up on you and uh Now's the Time to gather all your documents that need to be shredded uh there are details on the website at weststar.org to tell you what you can in camper um no Staples no pre-shredded uh uh documents and I believe it's a limit of four uh boxes per household so you can check that out on the website at West orange.org also at September on September 2 first OAC the annual OAC JazzFest tickets and info details are available at West orange.org um the Hispanic heritage Art Exhibit is coming up on September 21st 4 to 7M it's going to be a busy month in September of course the West Orange Art Center is at 551 Valley Road here in West Orange um also it on June 5th governor of this year Governor Murphy signed into law significant opr reform legisl and these changes R from range from new exceptions to new processes for requestor and custodians it went into effect on September 3rd so it in effect is uh uh is is now and anyone seeking to submit an OP request must use this form or the requests will be denied so uh there is no unfortunately no Grace during this transition period this is the law and this form is available on our website or in the municipal clerk's office and it's five pages and uh this is not a West Orange initiative this is a Statewide initiative and Madame clerk can correct me uh if I'm wrong also uh from the uh clerk's office we have a polling place change for West Orange voters in W one District 4 and the special general election uh coming up on September 18th the changes for this election only and it's going to be at seen Hall High School training facility that's not on Northfield Avenue that's at 700 Prospect Avenue uh so if you're in Ward one District 4 Please be aware of the change this is on the E sign on our website and has been posted and pinned to social media uh I would be remiss if um I didn't mention uh today of course is September 10th we are on the uh anniversary of September 11th tomorrow uh here is a picture from November 1971 eok reservation and you can see the uh Twin Towers the North Tower on the left and the right tower on the right uh the South Tower uh under construction as seen from Eagle Rock in 1971 and certainly um in September uh September 11 2001 uh following the attack on New York and the Twin Towers World Trade Center there was an improv to Memorial at Eagle Rock and I've took several pictures and this is one of those pictures and this is what eventually uh inspired Town official uh County officials to erect the current day memorial now just to put that in perspective uh tomorrow's anniversary would be in uh you can draw a parallel to 1964 uh anybody who uh looking back to the Pearl Harbor attack of December 7th 1941 it would be the same uh same time frame so uh to many of us it seems like yesterday but uh it must have seemed that way in 1964 to uh Pearl Harbor now also um there was a uh 450 foot wall there there was 100 foot section that was removed to make way for the memorial and I took a jackhammer and my own generator and removed five or six spikes from the wall to save for posterity and I will have them on I had them on display here in town hall and I will have them on display in the new display cases uh coming up uh that concludes my report for this evening I already mentioned about the traffic light changes on Mount Pleasant Avenue so I don't need to go over that again uh anybody who want wishes to all our Council Township council members via email can do so Council West orange.org thank you council president and that concludes my report for this evening thank you sir Mr bisi hi Anthony pesi uh representing County Executive def shenzo I want to thank Joe for that segue into tomorrow's uh event at Eagle Rock reservation uh it was County Executive d fenzo who at that time was serving as Freeholder president who took the initiative to uh raise a few million dollars to have that whole area um redone and dedicated to the people who lost their lives on September 11th so the program tomorrow as always we start at 8 A.M sharp um I always tell people if they're coming to come early by 7:30 or so because the traffic does get a little hectic and we will have shuttle buses taking people from the former Kmart uh parking lot into the um reservation if the parking does get filled um next event I want to share is September 29th which is a Sunday at our Environmental Center in rosand that's our fall family Festival it's our opportunity to gather with our partners there Rucker cooperate extension beekeepers Master Gardeners uh we have about eight Partners Al together uh raise awareness about the environment and what uh people can do at home to protect the environment uh and that's from 11:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. and then uh September 24th which is Tuesday is our annual senior Wellness day and thank you Joe for putting that up um the only years we haven't done it is during the pandemic so I really can't tell you how many years we've done it but uh we're back full steam um and this is our opportunity to invite seniors to uh basically a a One-Stop Center at Cody Arena uh with our offices and organizations that we partner with throughout the county to U help seniors stay independent um stay in their homes promote a healthy lifestyle try to make it a a fun day for everybody uh with music refreshments and um if anyone needs any transportation that day there's that number 973-732-5454 ago we did have a lightning strike at Turtle Back Zoo and the roof of the uh sea turtle recovery building uh caught on fire um the fire department was was there within minutes uh very professional all the turtles were evacuated they're now at a facility in New York um and we've already begun repairs on that uh building so just again thank you to the West Orange fire department from the county executive thank you thank you Mr pugy all right if there's anyone in the gallery that would like to address the council in public comment uh you're invited to do so now just come on up to the microphone uh we only accept public comment from those that are in person so if you're joining us via Zoom uh you will not be able to comment uh you don't have to wait you can just approach the microphone good good evening you'll need to state your name AB good evening and God bless you everyone I am uh Pastor thel C Williams a 25e resident of West Orange New Jersey and is there a reason why they're taking pictures okay all right um so I have a um I signed a petition um as I have for several of you over the years um I've worked the polls in this town over the past 25 years I've gone door too for several elections in this town over the past 25 years um for for men women black white and different but I signed a petition for councilman Rutherford sometime I guess summer or spring and the petition was rejected when I was told that the petition was rejected um I called to the office because again let me just reiterate and this happened I guess last Thursday I just came back from Chicago as a delegate for the Democratic National Convention I think I'm Ward One Division 4 whatever right as a West Orange resident I have with me in my hand here Doug Adams just mailed me something to my address here in West Orange when I called the town clerk to ask why my petition was rejected she said that I was not in the system I said that's impossible I said I've been here for 20 25 years a registered voter in West Orange for 25 years you're not here you're not here I said listen ma'am and I'm going to be frank with you all I said I know there's a lot going on in the town but please don't engage me in that I am a registered voter here in the town you're not in here you're not in here I said great no worries let me call the Board of Elections called The Board of Elections I ran it all the way up to Trenton I do Tex Banking and all of those things as a delegate and also the Interfaith caucus chair for the Democrats of New Jersey I said hey guys did something happen in the system I just had a whole ballot for West Orange Joe Biden's name was there and mine was underneath it did something happen that I'm no longer in the system no absolutely not you're here I call back and speak with the town clerk I think is it Katie C Kathy Karen Karen Karen I'm sorry Karen I said Karen I said listen I'm a pastor that has served in this town for a long time I don't know what's going on but I'm telling you something is not right in the system why don't you save the taxpayers some money save the town some money say save personal people some money and somebody admit that something is wrong in the system we have a discourse I wouldn't do that that's voter tampering and I said I didn't say you tampered what I'm telling you is is that if they got me wrong then is it a possibility that the other 60 petitions that are wrong were right uh you know we discourse some more I wished her well I wished the town well but I just came by today on my way uh to debate watch and to try to be salt and light in this town some more to say that something is wrong here you guys and we really need to fix it and I pray that West Orange you know I moved here 20 like I said 25 years ago and um I've seen a lot of good and a lot of great um come out of this town but some of the things and I've said this to the mayor to the council person some of the things that I am seeing are not the greatness of West Orange and it is my most Earnest prayer in whatever ways that you pray that we get it right and get it together if for nobody else the people of West Orange New Jersey God bless you all and I wish you God speed in your efforts thank you Pastor Mr Fagan was that microphone working just a moment ago sit on can you hear me Todd Dei Bernette Terrace um I'm here to talk well first of all I also agree with prior speaker um there is good stuff going on here that's not right uh needs to be fixed um unrelated to that but sort of related is uh I'm commenting on The Matrix Redevelopment amendments uh that's been osed um my first suggestion is that this amendment needs to stipulate what the use for the property is to be um specifically in agreement which is as a film and video production campus um the idea that we need to preclude residential development over there probably likely that you can't get residential development on that site because it's contaminated and to clean it up to the levels allowed for residential development it's probably not going to happen um nevertheless the agreement needs to stipulate what the use of the property is um and be specific about it um paragraph nine of that Amendment um changes the pre the Redevelopment agreement um relating to pil the new Amendment uh requires the township to Grant the developer a pilot yet no terms are specified there's no term there's no amount um there's no basic financial data or or terms that are proposed um to Grant a pilot at this point in the development where the prop the de uh purchaser has not done much of their due diligence which is going to take another year to a year and a half um that information is going to be critical to determine whether a pilot makes sense or not not saying it doesn't make sense here but on the face of it it's way too premature to even commit to a pilot for this project um it makes zero business sense from a real estate standpoint and it doesn't matter whether it's public domain or private domain the the approach to this development needs to be pragmatic and Mak sense and by offering a pilot without stipulating terms and without having any understanding of what the the performa will and projections for its performance will be because that data is not there yet I mean they can make up a proforma uh but the data is not C uh collected yet by the developer or us to be able to establish that um so that reason alone would be enough to reject and say and vote no for this amendment uh and I strongly suggest that that happened um to cover a couple more items um paragraph 12.2 both B and C allows the purchaser to terminate and receive a refund in the event of offsider improvements and fees that exceed $100,000 that threshold is really low um it is likely that the purchaser and the town is going to be able to going to need to do uh infrastructure and such but the purchaser will likely need to do infrastructure as well and that $100,000 is nothing um what's the right number I don't know necessarily but half a million dollars doesn't sound unreasonable um in and especially in terms of allowing the purchaser to terminate and walk away um the post closing true up period is is stipulated to be 60 days I've been involved in a complex trup situation amongst myself or the my employer and a developer and the managing agent of that property and it took months and months to get through that trup process um that that period needs to be 90 to 120 days um the other the other issue is why hasn't the purchaser identified a studio uh partner to say that or suggest that they need to own the property your time is up I just want to come finish what I'm saying if I can um to uh to say that they need to own the property makes no sense because this purchaser controls the property they have the exclusive right to be the redeveloper of the property therefore the ownership of the property is not necessary to for a re for a Studio partner to commit to the transaction and obviously that that commitment will be subject to uh closure of the of the transaction but to not have one at this point in time after all the time that's transpired makes no sense and this is this is Redevelopment number three this Township does not have a good track record for picking redevelopers for the downtown three strikes and you're out frankly thank you thank you is there anyone else in council chambers that would like to address good evening Joe kov at Grand View Avenue I'm also speaking about resolution 273-2422 between this Township and the redeveloper the council should vote down and direct the administration to renegotiate I thought the original agreement was heavily weighted to the re developer but this proposed amendment gives them even more along with shifting great cost and risk to the township residents and taxpayer in the original the redeveloper was required to fund and handle remediation that's pretty standard practice in the industry for the purchaser to buy as is now that responsibility would shift totally to the township why the document doesn't say except that the cost quote remain undetermined end quote although the issue of environmental Remediation in this area has existed for well over a decade here's a clue the redeveloper while happily unloading this responsibility and I have no idea why we would not at least share that responsibility or end the negotiations today is offering to loan the town at least $1.5 million for remediation which now includes demolition of buildings on two properties the loan would be in addition to a nearly half million dollar existing cleanup fund these are huge and scary numbers and let's not forget that the three council members who are now in their fourth and final year of their terms along with former council member mayor McCartney voted to authorize borrowing $20 million to buy properties in the phase 2 area let's not forget that we did not have to since the state local Redevelopment and Housing law doesn't require municipalities to buy the properties to avoid the dangers of real estate speculation and the loss of property taxes under Municipal own ownership and let's not forget that I and other residents spoke at multiple Council meetings telling you why you should not buy instead you voted to authorize the township to borrow to buy the Barton press property at 55 Lakeside in 22 according to County records we paid $12.5 million when the assessed value was $7 million that means we paid $5.5 million more 79% more than assessed those numbers are supposed to be similar at that assessment the cost of the town's ownership to the taxpayers to make up for was $321,800 annualized last year and will be even even more next year and let's not forget we gave that money to prism which we dumped as the previous redeveloper for failure to perform prism had bought the property out of foreclosure filed against them for non-payment of the mortgage and taxes for roughly three or four million so they got a huge profit here but now we see two glaring reasons why not to buy that property first we're proposing to sell the Barton press and Public Works properties for $10.8 million if you a portion that price based on the relative assessed values of the two properties we and I'm counting every resident and taxpayer in West Orange are going to lose more than half of what we paid two years ago just for the Barton press property more than $6.1 million loss just let that sink in for a minute what do we use to repay the loan balance after wiping out half the value we spent it on increased property taxes are almost certain and not only are we proposing to take this unconscionable and unforgivable loss but now we're trying to saddle ourselves with remediation and demolition for property that we didn't even need to buy in the first place another huge issue is the Redevelopment Financial agreement which outlines the financial impact of the project state law allows incentives to get these projects done here in West Orange as with the two previous redevelopments the township is offering a 30-year tax abatement no property taxes on the improvements for three decades replaced by a payment in Le of taxes these Pilots start payments at roughly 15% of what the redeveloper would otherwise pay at the property tax rates the rest of us pay these amounts rise gradually over 30 years until finally required to be equal to the then current property tax rates in the original agreement the redeveloper wanted a pilot similar to what prison had agreed to now they want the hurdles lowered further they want one of the standards to be to give the township more Revenue than what it cost the township services to the project wouldn't that be great if the rest of us could get that deal the other standard is that the project your time is up uh thank you uh Madame player uh council president I just asked for leave I'm not quite finished with uh with uh my comments on what I think is a really important issue you making to thank you the other standard is that the project would generate Revenue above what the township would receive from property taxes the precise formula makes a huge difference but it is not clearly specified the typical pilot sacrifices millions of dollars in future tax revenue as we have seen with the previous two pilots here and guess who makes up that difference to fund the budget yes you and me a third big issue for me is transparency in the original agreement the redeveloper agreed to make monthly progress reports however the township agreed to make best efforts to keep them confidential now the redeveloper says it will continue to make these reports on all aspects of their due diligence your time is up now Mr kovak thank you sir thank you council president for your leave anyone else in the council chambers that would like to address the public Sheila LTZ 703 Pleasant Valley way I will continue the conversation a third big issue for me is transparency in the original agreement the redeveloper agreed to make monthly progress reports however the township agreed to make best efforts to keep them confidential now the redeveloper says it will continue to make reports on all aspects of its due diligence including remediation investigation the council should demand instant access so you get more transparency and information you can share with constituents on this issue so vital to the future of our downtown and Municipal finances we are also Paving the way for this whole process to drag on for years the 210 day period from December to get the closing is long pasted does this remind anyone of the same prism drip drip water torture where the redeveloper defaulted again again and again but the township refused to enforce our rights in the original the redeveloper automatically got a second 210 day period instead now they want at least a year more and the potential for an additional six months by Mutual consent in addition the proposed amendment is blanketed with condition that allow the redeveloper to walk away isn't there any if there are aren't reasonable in renegotiating this let them walk away this redeveloper was picked without competitive proposals or bidding if you can't get this project at least balance 5050 in terms of risk and cost for residents you should end this process and restore and get the best competitive deal available in the market please vote no on this and send the administration a list of your own conditions to make this a much fairer agreement for residents and taxpayers it's not too late to pull back from the abyss thank you you thank you anyone else council chambers seeing none public comment is now closed minutes we'll start with we'll go in reverse order this time councilwoman G thank you council president I would like to thank all of our speakers here this evening um Mr Fagan did you have a count for us for the number of guests on Zoom thank you so very much thank you um Reverend thel thank you so much for your words um and certainly whatever is not going on or if whatever there is a thought that is not going on properly certainly um it is all of our desire um that nothing be held um private secret and that we do all things above board so that is my belief in this Administration and how they have been conducting business that is my desire that we continue to conduct business that way we can always do better become more transparent um more inclusive and that is uh certainly my goal um we will speak to the Redevelopment um when we get to that uh resolution and ordinance so I will reserve my comments until that time um and then again uh most of our comments were about the uh Redevelopment so thank you so much council president thank you councilwoman councilwoman scarper thank you um rence toell thank you for sharing your thoughts um I haven't met you before but I'm glad you came out and we do have important conversations that we need to have um for everyone that came out on the Redevelopment starting with Todd deoi um Todd you and I have talked about this in detail and I just want to thank you for your um sharing your expertise in commercial real estate development uh it's important that we hear from more members of our community with expertise in in commercial development and in finance because I believe that there are a lot of holes in this agreement as well and I had serious concerns um I agree um with all of your comments I won't go through them again as we've talked about earlier in the week um and you taught me a few things about issues that I didn't know about the true up and and certain other issues that pertain to real estate development Joker kovak once again I want to thank you for your incredibly detailed e and expertise that you have offered our community for decades um we need to hear from those with the background in these issues because many of us are new to this whole commercial real estate development um world I have been a business person I I understand contracts I look at contracts I saw a lot of things that just did not look koser to me and I really value the opportunity to be able to um seek some guidance and for you to share your expertise and again I agree with everything that you have articulated as well as Todd did I won't go through it all um but a lot of it does really come down to a few things um the township funding the remediation is problematic the pilot is very problematic particularly when we don't have financials and we can't really accurately assess the need for a pilot um the financial agreement is poorly negotiated and you know selling the properties at you know undervalue are also an issue um and it all comes back to this is what happens when projects are not competitively bid and the transparency is an issue and on an issue like this where information has trickled out of the website I've gotten calls from a couple of people who said I can't even find all this information on the website there's not really enough to make these decisions you know why hasn't this been out in the public for longer and it needs to be this is such an important project for our Township this information cannot be rushed out everyone needs to be able to weigh in and so Sheila lewitz I want to thank you for continuing this important conversation because quite frankly I think uh Mr kovak should have had as much time as he needed to discuss it in detail and so should Todd Jovi it's ridiculous that we would have something this important relegated to five minutes so uh thank you all for coming out and I will be voting no on this issue because there are just too many problems thank you councilwoman uh councilwoman gab Michael thank you good evening West Orange to those of you in our council chambers and on the zoom welcome um I want to thank you guys your voices are crucial in shaping our community and we appreciate your engagement in local matters um pastor um I know you very well and I'm you know kind of shocked with with what happened I mean there must be an error with with the system so you know hopefully it's something that can get worked out um but I know that it's pending litigation so it's not something that we can really talk about here but um you know I I I do hope that your petition does get included because I know that you're a registered voter you sign petitions also you know for me for others so um I'm sorry that this happened to you um but hopefully it's something that can be looked into with our system um and now regarding the Matrix uh Redevelopment deal um I would like to thank Mr doovi Mr kovak and Miss litz for uh your advocacy I agree with all of your points I agree with my Council colleague um Susan SC uh councilman scar excuse me um I was not in favor for this deal because of as uh Miss litz mentioned uh we didn't get the best competitive deal we never put this out and you know I've said from the beginning we don't know what we don't know and um something that I struggled with is they don't even have a studio partner and I knew this was going to happen I had a feeling this that that we would be here and so for that reason I'm voting no and I'm not in favor just because I don't like the way this happened if there's no transparency that it wasn't an open process I understand that it doesn't have to be an open process when it's deemed an area in need of Redevelopment but that's the right thing to do in government so that's what I believe and I'm entitled to my vote what I think is the best for for the our you know for the residents and for this town and I don't think this deal with uh matrixes and that's my opinion and I will stand by it um and you know um I will end my public comment response there but I really want to thank the three of you for coming out and speaking tonight because this is something that's very important actually I'm going to add another uh point in terms of how it was purchased I would obviously I was on the council when we purchased it at a very high price but it's the same memo with Rock Spring right Rock Spring was a price for 4 million you know another entity offered six million it was rejected and then all of a sudden West Orange buys it for 12 million three times the appraised value um and again all on taxpayer dollars unfortunately so we have a a a fiscal uh responsibility if I do Sherry here and to put the best interests of West armed residents not developers um not anyone else but you know the people in in the town so I don't think I never thought this was a good deal um I made my comments very clear in that meeting in fact I went knowing that councilwoman scarp and I didn't have the votes to you know in in terms of voting this down I still went to the contract in detail and found many flaws you know one of the flaws was that you know it could be a a studio and or residential uh that's been rectified since but there are other things again outlined by Mr kovak Mr doovi and miss lewitz that you know I agree with you guys this is not a good deal for West Orange and this helps the developer um and it and it hurts us I believe in the long run I think the best thing to do is swash this and put it out a bid and see who we can solicit in terms of vendors because this is the Black Mariah this is the first Studio you know in the world and they're we're a hot town we're close to the city you know we're a beautiful Town we're centrally located in Essex County we're the fourth largest municipality so you know we don't again we don't know what we don't know and we should have from the beginning put this out so with that I conclude my my comment public comment responses thank you coun woman councilwoman uh Celina thank you uh council president uh uh R thank you so much for coming down and and sharing and you you're you're I've known you for a little bit and you're a woman of Integrity um and I and I'm not going to comment but other than so is our or Madam Clerk and so I'm sure you know um well it's it's it's been tough like when there's tough situations out there um you know she's a she's a woman of Integrity um and does her best and works very hard for us and I'm gonna leave it at that so um I haven't really been following things but I I do know Madam Clerk and I do appreciate your situation as well but I had to share that with the public in regards to this contract I had wanted and I'm going to request it tonight by council president when we get there um that we go into executive session to discuss this because this is a Neo ongoing negotiation what has been very disappointing and aggravating to me is that we've had this contract for over three weeks and comments that were made tonight now you know we the our attorney had asked us sent us information and asked for inp put and wanted feedback and that was not taken upon till I I believe as of yesterday by some of you so that is very disappointing because this was a project at hand it's not a secret that they wanted a pilot that was stated in the very beginning so as far as transparency I know uh Miss left put you you know I I always appreciate your comments and you coming out but that was transparent from day one day wanted a pilot so let's we'll start with that um item number two um and that has to be negotiated and the attorney can explain all that because it it makes sense once you ask questions and and things are explained to you within that so I look forward to that being shared um they also um have paid us $400,000 uh to the township as well for the time to pursue this I'm not saying not to agree or disagree but I am frustrated that you know this is an ongoing negotiation and there needs to be comments and involvement and there was none and and that is where I get disappointed because there's opportunities if you had feedback that you wanted an item change it could be changed I'd like to also tonight go into close session um and um whenever it's appropriate to vote for that so we can have discussions uh if there needs to be further negotiation because that's what our job is and that's what we're supposed to do and uh so I hope that happens sobly making a motion for that uh with that being said I do appreciate the comments and the input from the public on this matter um and uh yeah look forward to the conversation in uh in the uh next next few moments uh in regards to Mr pesi I just want to thank you for coming down uh and the county had a a great summer uh taking my granddaughter to the zoo and again year after year just unbelievable just you know she got so excited when she saw the giraffes and uh just a just a great time and just seeing talking to PE people at the zoo coming to visit the zoo as far as Connecticut uh just amazing just really amazing and everything that we're trying to do with our tourism program having them come visit and then also uh stay I refer them to to go eat at momad dags down street and uh I they were going to take me up on that offer but just awesome to have that many visitors and for them to enjoy our amenities here in the township so thank you for that thank you council president thank you councilwoman uh as always Mr pesi Mr Fagan we do appreciate your presence and your timely announcements um as well as the visuals so I do appreciate the work you're putting in uh with regard to public the rest of the public comment uh before I do that I neglected to thank uh the new principal um uh Mr Fitzgerald at Liberty uh the drop off there is marketly improved this year um I think they've done a wonderful job uh making it easier for folks to get in and out and um that's the kind of innovation that I think we need so we do I do thank you um now um I am going to reserve um most of my comments on uh newly uh newly elected Pastor uh New Hope Baptist Church in East Orange my friend Reverend thel um I'm going to reserve my comments because while there is no pending litigation um as of this moment there is likely to be uh what I will say is you have been an outstanding servant uh here and abroad uh and so I do appreciate your uh public comment tonight um and being willing to raise your voice on an important issue um now most of the other comments were with regard to um Matrix and the movie studio development our attorney is here and I may ask him to comment in a moment not right now on um some specifics but I W to I want to say a couple of things first um for months we as a council advised our mayor to put out an RFP on the property that wasn't done I advised the mayor myself multiple occasions that if an RFP wasn't done it would be very difficult to get a deal done uh that the council would like not likely support it um that advice was ignored when the developer was sprung on us [Music] um it would have been very easy to vote no me personally and defeated at that point uh because there were two vocal NOS already there were two vocal yeses already and I think it's important for West Orange to understand this is the this is the hard part of politics we do have a history of um not doing things in a open and transparent fashion we have a history of saying one thing and then doing something else or getting so far down the road that it's more costly to turn around and go back than it is to just finish and I think this property on Main Street is a great example of it um so it would have been easy to vote no uh I did not vote no and I have not voted no because in spite of how poorly we got to this place in spite of the poor advice um that leadership the administration must have been listening to um it was still the best deal for that property I want to remind us the property has been sitting phow for decades it is the largest single parcel on our Main Street and our main street is struggling and has been struggling visibly so for decades and we have all of these other challenges in town that require money to fix and here we have an opportunity to develop commercially which does not put kids in school two-thirds of our tax bill goes to this to the school so we have an opportunity to develop in a way that alleviate some of the financial pressure from Resident taxpayers and provide a major first mover investment on our main street so yes the way we got there was horrible it certainly could have been done differently and better but with that opportunity with this particular developer in spite of how poorly we got there I thought it was in the best interest of the Town not me personally there are many supporters of mine that asked me to vote no it was in the best interest of the town in spite of the difficult politics in spite of the lawsuits in spite of the inuendos and narratives and all of the horrible political Antics over the last four years it was still in the best interest of the town to vote Yes and so I did and I stand by that vote now I have my challenges with what's presented tonight and we're going to discuss that in a moment but it is important that we that that I correct the record on how we got here now with regard to uh this pilot my colleague said it's been clear from day one that the developer wanted a pilot I was in the very early meetings and it was not clear from day one that they wanted a pilot what was said publicly and if you don't believe me that's completely up to you all of these meetings are recorded go back and review them what was said publicly was they will likely want a pilot not that it was guaranteed what was said was the prior owner had a pilot any new owner coming in is going to know that and probably want one as well but it was not guaranteed we were not required to give it and there has been multiple there have been multiple conversations in public about this um and I do recall one of the presentations where our attorneys were at the microphone to my right uh and I believe it was echoed by uh Mr rabbit um what was said that night was they have to justify it they're not just going to be given a pilot the numbers don't add up then they don't get the pilot so it's not been transparent from day one that there was going to be a pilot it was likely from day one that there would be and that's a difference but it is a distinction um because now we're at a point where this document we may be putting ourselves on the hook for one and I think that is what the the concern from some in the audience are really raising uh is that we're putting the cart before the horse when it comes to that and now happy to have our Mr Beckman if he so chooses to address to address that um but whether they get a pilot or not has yet to be seen we are not voting on a pilot um and unfortunately we can't do EX excutive session because we'd have to advertise that am I right Madam clerk no not for this I asked the attorney said if you make a motion seconding that doesn't make S because it's a negotiation item I asked Mr belman we asked for other things on here and we're told no so when are we gonna discuss all right hold time out time out I am still I still have the mic I still have the mic so the right way so so if if whether we take the vote or not right if we take the vote there are five of us that are going to vote and we'll will decide um I have some additional commentary to make I I planned on pulling this I've already alerted uh Mr Beckham into my intentions um um I had prior to this meeting I had decided to pull it for various reasons we can discuss at that time but the point is um what I think is important is that we understand how we got here we got here because of bad politics we got here because there's not trust in the elected officials we got here because we've made decisions um on major development in town that residents either don't understand question disagree with protest and it seems like there are just issue after issue after issue where the where the will of the residents is ignored so that ill will has made it very difficult to do projects like this um and it makes it difficult for someone like me who wants to do what's right for the town in spite of the poor politics um it makes it hard to take those kinds of votes um all right now my other colleague councilwoman gber Michael did mention something about the housing and the movie studio and that is something uh that she raised early on um it was separated because we separated the parcels and did two separate rfps the movie studio parcel is only a movie studio the other adjacent properties that the township owns was put out for RFP we received two responses back I'm not thrilled about either one and that's not a secret to anyone at least on this at this table but that's why they were separated originally the movie studio developer was going to do the development on the adjacent properties which would have included housing um that is no longer the case uh Mr kovak the only comment I will make at least as of right now um with regard to uh your comments were um you're just wrong on assess versus market value and I think you know that um you're a property owner in West Orange you know that the market value of your home is different than the assessed value of your home um so it's not like we overpaid by $5 million we paid what the market and and did get appraisals and folks can correct me if I'm wrong did get appraisals for the property so that we would understand what the market value was um excuse me council president as we did also for Rock Spring as well okay um so we understood where the market was on that property um and if we were to sell it for to develop housing the price would have been higher but we would all have also dug our property tax hole a little deeper because what you know and what most people in West Orange should know is that residential units use more in Services than they pay in taxes um on average so um commercial development is the right thing to do there the assess in market value really don't don't matter um much um Mr beckelman would you like to address any of the uh comments with regard to the pilot or the financial agreement and I just want to say someone I don't know who it was mentioned that we've got to negotiate a we've got to do a better job negotiating the financial agreement we haven't even started negotiating the financial agreement it's not we're not at that point um the Point Mr Beckerman would you like to um address the pilot issue probably just that President thank you I don't want to get too far into you know negotiating the here at the meeting um if you want to have discussion an executive that's your call um I'll make myself available for that um the original agreement does contemplate that there would be a pilot I'd like to distinguish it's they have the right to terminate it's not that we have to give them a pilot so there'll be a decision to be made at that time and the reason that we were talking about and this agreement basically just clarifies some of the criteria we're going to look at to measure whether or not they've met the test for that pilot um what was stated at the public meeting by my colleague I believe ever Johnson is is absolutely true when the time comes that we have the detailed numbers we will have to look at them and they will have to meet the test um there is a Poss there's a possibility they won't get pil that we would have to reject it because they don't need to test and then they will have an option to terminate or not you know if if they don't truly need the pilot and they can make a decision if they think the project is worth proceeding with at that time but it's not approving a pilot by by any stretch we're not there yet and it's not guaranteed that we have to thank you sir no not yet um want to address um no I'm fine I'm good with that did you want to uh continue no if you had another specific question no no I don't I'm thank you though okay um you know I think Rock Spring is another great example since you brought it up councilwoman of how not to do a project the the appraisal and I which I still haven't seen um I'll get it for you uh thank you uh the appraisal um is interesting to me in how we had over a year or two worth of conversation before someone even acknowledged that there was one and now we've had a year or two of conversation and we still haven't seen it but regardless of that that project was flawed from the beginning and that's exactly how residents don't want us to do projects in town to tell them one thing and then do something else um and I think that's part of the concern that people have here with Main Street they think that we're going to we tell them one thing and then we're going to do something else um rock spring is an example of that the library is another example of that and people are concerned that Main Street will be one as long as I am um voting on this body uh that will not be the case um and we're not doing anything to keep the reports confidential there are just some months where it's the same thing are we we're doing remediation we're still in the studies or whatever the case may be no new news to report on who the studio part partner is that that kind of information you know you could sit here and be redundant we already have very long Council meetings I choose not to to waste time that way councilwoman you wanted to add something yeah thank you council president so um no the point being at the pilot is that we there was discussion of it that because they would correct me from W Mr uh beckelman they would receive they have the right to receive back their 400,000 if they don't receive the pilot correct because that's where the did two payments yes or 200,000 back yeah there were two payments of $200,000 um and we actually have clarified that from the original agreement as well what we were trying to capture was if the township unreasonably rejected the pilot so how do we determine that it's a difficult test to try to really determine frankly so we set up more specific in this amendment to try to come to that figure that out so if the township ultimately decides to unreasonably reject the violent with no good reason it says we're just not going to do it yes that they would be entitled to a $200,000 payment return not $ 400,000 and that's where thank you and that's where I wanted to make my point and I apologize to the public if I didn't represent that well that in regards to the pilot there's been discussions that now that there is one now but there has been discussions and it's been numerated in the Redevelopment agreement thank you councilwoman all right any other further comments before we move into our consent agenda seeing none public comment is now closed okay thank you sir oh this water can you alert the zoom audience or can they still hear we're just uh waiting for Madam clerk to return you want to do a little can you sure you always have impromed pres the interim cmfo here you're going to speak about the budget he yeah he's just not he's working so I said stay you stay working you don't need to sit in here for all this and well we're going to do that first first let's get yeah um I mean you know obviously through approval of minutes you know bills kind thing this e e I thought they were waiting for Vince I told no okay ready oh I just was waiting am on paper thank you madam clerk I have the appraisal for 14 million dolls for Rock Spring Country Club and I'll share it with my colleagues when the rest of it Prince yeah it's right here stay Thank you welcome and that is an appraisal if you're going to do housing yes because that's what the filter was going to purchase it for that's what it yes yeah and what we what was told to Residents was we're going to keep it an 18-hole golf course you can't build if we didn't buy it it was going to get sold to a builder and so again we had a whatever we're not gonna be litigate them no no need to yeah no I want you I do want you I could actually email to everybody better yeah better this way we could share it okay are we ready to resume yeah yes I didn't know you I know [Music] everybody did an appraisal as a golf course million and they offered six and they were rejected and it didn't sell right because we were going to pay 12 all right we're ready to resume um Madam clerk yes uh we're ready to resume consent agenda oh okay approval minutes sure approval minutes of previous meeting executive session of June 25th 2024 and July 23rd 2024 and the public meeting of August 6th 2024 consent reported Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none uh Bist is there any questions on the bills no but I would like to just a comment sure I noticed it's in a different format so whoever did that thank you it's easier to read the new system yeah yeah um okay uh resolutions are any resolutions being pulled this evening yes yes absolutely okay council president I just wanted to say one before um so uh director carbello emailed me and said that um two of the resolutions need to be pulled um because the ordinance has to be approved prior to the resolution being approved so she wanted 26124 and 26324 she wanted the vote on those two um to go after the ordinances were approved that makes sense no it's fine any other uh colleagues any other uh resolutions being pulled yes councilwoman uh I would like to pull [Music] um 273 and I don't think I I don't need a pulled I just had coments on 250 and 272 um I just wanted to point something out on 259 250 or 259 259 sorry 259 259 for comment yeah comments on 272 two 250 yeah two I'm sorry two 250 259 and 272 for comments okay anything else being qued colleagues yeah 26724 267 by Council and I have a comment on 26824 councilwoman Williams comment on 268 anything else what would you like to pull 271 you're pulling that yes okay I'd like to pull 270 um 273 was pulled by councilwoman celino correct yes okay you know I don't need to pull 267 you do not no I just have a a different question I'll just ask it later okay you want to just ask your question that's right away okay so if you if you wait you're gonna ask the question after the vote well we could go over the questions first before that's what I'm asking you wanna no it's okay you sure yeah we good okay okay so 267 no question prior to the vote is there an agenda issue that I'm not aware of is there a p is there a page missing this is printed on two sides yeah know do you have 25 should be on the back can you print the second page it looks like maybe that's missing is that the one that was out yeah probably missing the back page should be 255 to 267 it's p all right let me go thank you I didn't B like we done yeah re some explanation see maybe there's something I missed yeah right [Music] that's that's [Music] see all right so that we're clear we have uh pulled for questions or comments 250 by councilwoman castelino uh 259 by councilwoman celino again for comment 261 and 2 263 were pulled by director carbal 268 was pulled for comment by councilwoman Williams 270 was pulled by me 271 was pulled by councilwoman gber Michael 272 was pulled for comments by councilwoman celino and 273 was pulled uh by councilwoman calino and I have one last question for Mr smdo for 25656 yeah C okay so we'll we'll take them in order if that's all right is that all right Madam CL yes perfect okay so let's let's do that okay um start 250 sure thank you council president I I just want to thank um our engineer and Mr Kio at the rack for redesigning one of are uh all this playgrounds left be at Park that's located on the corner of Park Avenue Main Street um you know kids aren't playing baseball uh in all our Parks like they used to and uh the recreation department realizes that did assessment of this property and now um we're going to expand parking uh a new kitty Park is already under construction uh where the uh down the first Baseline a footall court is going to be installed and also a volleyball court as well as a dog run a lot of residents have been using the field um past couple years inappropriately by having their dogs run on it while kids played and now they'll be a fenced out uh dog park uh run area so I just wanted to bring that to the Public's attention on uh a great collaborative project and and um look forward I know the neighborhood's looking forward to it so thank you for all those efforts any anything else on 250 that's it for me for 250 if anybody else has anything on 250 just want to reiterate I'm uh glad to see the administration uh investing in Parks um this one in particular which uh certainly has needed some up upkeep and upgrades rather uh for some time uh but as we prepare to move into the capital budget as I've already alerted uh the mayor uh I expect there to be money in there for parks in other parts of West Orange um and so we are going to do what we can to make sure that um you know we can enjoy the same quality of life as some of these other neighborhoods that have uh you know parks within local walking distance but this is a great start and I do commend everyone that had a hand in it now you're not you didn't want to you just wanted to comment I want that would that one was a comment okay all right so all the comments first right yeah 250 256 real quick this is just signage real simple no nothing uh you know questioning on that U that we have to get a agreement with the county rout routes but um Mr smdo are there is there any other signage going on like where we at with the library with the other except for in on the on the public roads um conversation with Mr Q um I actually just sent an email the other day to our sign maker for the rest of the Executive Drive we get making progress on okay what about the funding from uh the funding we have to get the prices and then we have to because this was the 75,000 was credit yeah the credit we have to present these to um to our legal to to deal with the where we got the credit from okay so and then phase two will be in the capital budget for the library project yes well I don't know if it's going to be in this particular the capital project it it will be a a phase two will be presented to the council I don't know if it's going to be in this because this is quite expens uh intens of the base to it probably eat more than half of what the anticipated capital budget would be wow so um so that that probably be a different um request because and right now U director carbal has received probably a couple weeks ago she received final component of the project which had to deal with the electrical upgrades which it was a great great deal of things had to be changed based on the needs of what's going to be on the property I know that she's been reviewing it and trying to get the cost estimate so that this way we can present the whole package to the council for consideration I agree mral I thought we ordered the signs uh for um Rooney Circle already we didn't order those inside we did not order them we we were looking at them then there was some delay between us and the library when trying to figure out what the design was going to be and the summer just flew by um we I tried to call Mr QB we just didn't meet uh we have had conversations we have the designs we were going to change the designs um and as I said I just the other day I sent out an email to our design we're going to probably change the signs a little bit but um it's just a matter of getting it coordinated that's really what it comes down to so so the the agree who the help me understand the approval process is that are we able to design the signs yeah we're going to design the signs yes without Mr QB's input no we're well we can if we' like to we're trying to do so um especially the Monumental sign that's going to be in front of the library itself that says this is the West Orange Library so we're trying to get that finalized we have a conceptual ideas and thoughts and I I think both the the library the president and Mr QB are in agreement with the conceptual design we just had to finalize it so what is your expected time frame on that um they're pretty much designed we just have to come to a consensus I I I I'll have a better report for your next meeting I I'll make sure we get that taken care of and presentent your report and hopefully we can have a finalized for the next meeting okay thank you madam cler will you please remind Mr schalo we'll be looking forward to the update at the next meeting sure good thank you um all right so that's 256 thank you Mr smdo uh councilwoman 259 yes a 259 just want to point it out to my colleagues and the public um that um the $338,800 uh for the replacement of the speed bumps I had a nice conversation with Miss carala today about a few of these other uh resolutions um which limited my questions this evening but I wanted to point out that it actually just cost the township $72.40 the rest of it was uh paid for by uh psng to replace the speed bumps that they dug up which was awesome thank you that's it for 259 that's it all right uh 268 no those are oh 268 Council Williams thank you um regarding 268 I just wanted to have commentary on this this is regarding U 31 and 30 the 3132 block of uh North Park where they have incurred and encountered um a tremendous amount of flooding and damage to their property um this has been ongoing for at least two to two and a half years um with the residents calling um complaining of water intrusion coming down from lellan Park and so I just wanted to um put it on the record that this repair is being done it is a $2500 repair um to the township hopefully um this $2500 repair will eliminate the thousands of dollars of damage um to a couple of these residents home and moving forward if it is uh something as simple as us being able to um clean existing piping or remove trash to to prevent runoff into our neighbors homes um it is our responsibility as a community to make sure we're protecting our residents um so I just wanted to put that on the record um make sure miss love is aware um that we are continuing to make progress in that area with some of those concerns um thank you very much anyone else want to comment on 268 no just thank you to the administration for getting it done also president I'm um leaving I have another obligation okay you're you're leaving to go to a debate watch party I Le you're leaving a council meeting to go to a debate watch party that is impressive um wow um uh I lost my train of talk um no so on 268 while I am grateful that this is being done and I do want to thank the administration for um for this uh work I think we all know that this is not going to end May alleviate some it may mitigate for a moment but it's not going to end the issue so I I want to know what if anything we're going to do about dressing runoff from the top of the hill to the bottom we have you know water coming through Lan park that's been an issue for years you're very well aware of that I think you um probably more than anyone else on the team is is aware um there are some issues at the top of the hill one with the resident um and then also uh with the retention Basin from the uh Town Homes there and then we still have the issue with through Park Drive North and South so are we prepared to address that issue holistically or are we just trying to get a bandaid on this part and and I understand sometimes you need a bandaid right you may not be able to do the whole thing right now but I want to understand that because I think that's the best approach so if I can start with 26824 these are always emergency cleanups after the fact after the trash rack is f the trash rack is a for those who don't know is is a metal rate in front of a large storm sewer were like keep the branches and things from going in there because they go under roadways they get cogged up in roadways that's like next to impossible to clean out so what I asked for our legal department was to look at the M Municipal service agreement with go park and see who's responsible they determine that we are responsible not long more but I said then what we need to do is to constantly look at this monthly and keep it clean not clean it out after we get one of these torrential rainstorms and the messes already happened and the people's homes have flooded out it has it has to be kept clean constantly ongoing so that's something we're going have to budget into next year but right now it's an emergency with regard to the the storm water above um you know what's going on up on on E Bridge way that's one issue uh we do have to look at what the water coming from the condos next door and from my understanding is there's quite possibly water that even comes from bigle Ridge condos across m screen and into a pipe which you can see a pipe going down the rock wall and under 280 into W Park um we don't really have good infrastructure maps in this town to look at this is all going to be have have to be budgeted and we're going to have to have hydraulic Engineers determine how we fix this but I'm I'm on the same page as you like we can't keep reacting to it we have to look at fixing this for long-term solution though I've been in I've been in talks with dith about this she agrees too um we need a storm water management plan we need to get it updated not even in compliance with the ones from 22 mind the ones from 24 we really need to step this up well I appreciate your effort there Chief I just W to uh understand so it's going to cost about 2500 every time we have to clean up that I know the exact spot you're talking about I think we can do better than that because we're calling them calling them in to clean up a mess yeah that's already occurr if it's ongoing I think if it's ongoing we can probably do a little bit better because they really don't have to clean up that much every time and that's not a responsibility we could give to our DPW I'm going to talk to them about that but I I just don't think they have the staff now in the new budget they do have people so maybe they can't but it takes a machine too so you have the machine operator and be able to get in there that's another thing I you know there's a lot of things I want to do is get to the point where we have um a list of machines and machine operators and what we pay in hour instead of every time there's an emergency we try to find somebody and the price is what it is we get that up front we know that we pay you know $200 for a trackco and and an operator making that number up but at least we get it in advance and we know and that's the most they can short us and we can be competitive we we have merer we really can't be too competitive kind have to take whoever's want to come out and do it whether it's Kowski or Sher or whoever you know we're at their mercy so we get these agreements up front we're only paying them when we use them but at least we know what that cost is beforehand go thank you very much Chief if there's anything I need be helpful to get this thing done from the top to the bottom um you know we do have a new Congress person this may be a good time to make an Ask um but yes I think your approach and my Approach is the right approach um and then you know we can figure out where the next place is to address but that one is certainly one of the ongoing issues thanks presid just to add you know 267 um that is part of the study of the storm water Outlets so um we're looking for that additional funding to help identify we we identified about half the water Outlet inity this is going to complete the project so we're going to be start identifying where our Trum sponsor great work gentlemen thank you very much councilwoman yeah now I had a great conversation again with Miss carvalo uh today um and I didn't mark it because I was satisfied but as you're on the topic um about that mapping out and so this is half of it and the other half has to be done as well so I appreciate the administration's proactiveness for this Sor with not best but I think a lot of that's grant money to yeah believe a lot of that's grant money but side that the not this um we're not going to vote it down so we can report on that Capital yeah but I do uh appreciate that director carbal for getting the grant money to offset um all right so that's 268 um I do want to say Mr recan um it's going to be difficult to get any movement on the matter that you're here for because there are four of us um so it's not likely to move forward in any fashion um just want to give you a heads up we we can talk about it later but I like him to wait we get to I'm just letting him know you know we have there four of us now and it's gonna take three votes to pass one way or another or table um so she she should have stayed I think vote on it uh yeah I mean so it's too late now she's gone so I you know I'm um we had an event we could have weak I mean we could have in advance moved this meeting to a different date you know social events don't proceed this type of business I'm sorry I agree with you councilwoman uh completely um I think it's poor judgment um all right but just so that you're aware councilwoman would like you to stay so you know you can Avail yourself till we get to 273 yeah all right we're almost there uh 270 is the next one well that was pulled you pulled that right so we're doing oh I'm sorry 272 is the next one with comments oh that was me yes so we started the evening with Mr Fagan with the helicopter and the filming of 20th uh uh Century LLC and uh yeah it's awesome to see us getting a revenue uh for filming projects at $2,500 a day using our Lakeside Avenue a lot so um this is part of the you know film industry coming to town coming to the area and uh just having agreements in place that we could capitalize on so um it's a you know just just exciting and I just want to bring it to the attention of the public Mr Smo so just to give you an update um I did send you the copy electronically a little while ago Mr jenar was working on it with the 20 Century we've actually increased that Fe to 3500 because they asked for space right so I just want to make sure it reflects that way so it's you know project but we haven't um seen this much activity in in production in a while of this magnitude and we have three major Productions going on which we're not really we've been asked not to comment on it because you know of excitement of the projects so but um yeah it's it's it's pretty exciting that what we're doing we're working with New Jersey film commission along with um the the various um you know production companies so but thanks to Mr Jenaro today we were able to pull it off the uh it's the movie industry doesn't realize that government doesn't work at the same speed definitely we're able to get this one done relatively quickly um and so I do want to appreciate uh you know your Outreach and um I'm glad that this uh is going to be approved it's not um it's not being pulled um yeah to vote no um any other comments on 273 no I'm sorry 272 yes sir all right Madam clerk okay so that's it for the comments so is there a motion to approve the consent agenda so mooves second all in favor I any opposed the consent agenda is implemented right council president did you want to do the resolutions or when were we going to do the ABC matter H is the gentleman here is the attorne no it's just a it's just a an extension of his premises for outdoor seating so I thought there was an attorney here for him but no okay well let's this should take a second let's finish this and then we'll do the well Jour to ABC okay so um to 270 what yeah yeah 270 council president you pulled that all right so I have um challenges with 270 J give me a second oh yeah no it doesn't it's it's listed all right so uh con concerned about a couple of things in 270 what page colleagues if you will turn to uh beginning with page three um yeah exhibit a draft 9424 um Mr Jenaro under purpose of request uh I know it's mentioned elsewhere in the um in the exhibit but it it you know it says perform a forensic arit for the years 21 22 and 23 now elsewhere it says each year individually is there any conflict there is that an issue can we be more explicit or can we direct to that I don't want someone to read this and the first thing they read is you got to do three years and they don't want to do it got it um so you do Andor that's fine so I would offer that Amendment Andor uh this is on the second line under purpose of request 2021 2022 and and or 2023 and we don't have to vote on each Amendment at time we can vote on all at the can we vote on all at the end unless there's an objection agreeing yeah okay so far yeah okay there is one that you don't agree let us know and then we'll separately vote on that um just want to note I wanted to understand what the termination Provisions were under period of contract the sentence reads successful respondents shall be required to execute the Township's form contract which includes the indemnification insurance and termination Provisions just general language uh that I'm not of my head the my understanding is this is a uh so line that's in all of the rfvs that go out so I can inquire with the uh Miss Reynold and get back on that but I don't top my head so say form contract does that mean that this is a standard contract that we're issuing no when I when I say form what I'm what I mean to say is that when you do RFP when rfps go out I'm sure that much of the language is similar from one to another my understanding I have talked at Miss Reynolds to be sure but my guess sister Dr thanks my guess would rather be that this was part of just a normal everyday RFP I can inquire with there I'm not exactly sure um Mr Jenaro please inquire and and respond to me in writing I am concerned about this language because we just came out of the Garbage Contract where we were told we don't have termination Provisions in the contract and we did not have termination Provisions in the RFP and if we're going to have them in some rather than others I want to understand why I think we were at a significant disadvantage once we F once we found out about the two undisclosed conflicts of interests our Township attorney has one with the winner of the Garbage Contract and one with the writer of the Garbage Contract and part of the reason why we couldn't get out of it was because we did not have termination Provisions so what I need from you Mr Jenaro and um please if uh if you need an email send me an email saying I'm not sure exactly what you need don't wait for me to send you the email I have way more on my plate to do I don't do that okay that's been an excuse used by others um I need to know one what the termination Provisions are two if they are standard across rfps I got you I appreciate you sir one uh what this termination Provisions are and two if there's standard across rfps and three if there were in fact termination Provisions in the garbage contract that's separate from this 268 separate issue but I don't know that and again our offices C out I don't know that I'm going to be able to aine on the Garbage Contract or anything having to do with it but to the extent that I can I to the extent that I can or can't I'll let you know and I appreciate that actually um what you can do is forward the request to the special counsel for the for the Garbage Contract and CC me on thank you sir send that around to uh CC the council actually don't yeah yeah don't do that um I'll get it to you I'll get it to you I would like it I'll get it to you I'll get it to each of my colleagues separately so that we don't violate opma all yes sir just clarify one of the termination Provisions in this RFP are the standard throughout the rfps that we typically put out to bid and the I'm going to reach out to special C regarding the termination provisions of the garbage thank you sir I had a question after you are you still going I'm still going but you can chime in is it on this you might answer on this but you in this section because that was my last thing on that section I was gonna do the agenda I had question no no I had nothing there so please I just didn't know is that standard you know where it says the uh During the period provided and preparation of responses Township May issue agenda amendments or answers to written inquiries what page are you on I'm sorry um I'm on 17th oh no yeah we didn't get that yet let's go Page by Page um all right um okay and on page six section 2.2 procurement process and schedule uh at the bottom of that paragraph All respondents Shall submit a list of any political contributions to the following people since January 1 2020 it list the mayor and four Council members it does not list councilwoman gabber Michael why is that you guys forgot about me that's what it looks like and no can add that thank you sir is there a motion to make that Amendment yes sure so so moved or we GNA do it all at the same time that looks waet for that all right now in 2.3 conditions second uh paragraph This RFQ does not commit the township of West Orange to award a cont cont ract help me understand why that's necessary there that's standard with all um request for proposals so for example if the request isn't substantially compliant with the terms of the RFP it doesn't ensure and for example if there are multiple respondents to the RFP so it's just to say that if there are multiple respondents it doesn't commit us to award it to you just because you responded to it it's the lowest responsible bit well we're going to talk about that this is um this is an RFP or an RFQ oh I'm sorry it's an RFQ but it's the same it's the same uh forget the lowest responsible bidder part but it's the same we evaluate the responses to it and it's just to say that if the five say the five companies respond to the or the five cent companies respond to this it doesn't automatically commit us to have a contract got it um it does say that in other in other places like we we're not required to award a contract and we can reject all of the bids so just I'm trying to make sure that we're not approving something that down the road can simply be rejected either by the administration um you know unilaterally or through some vote of us um after the fact I I I think right now we're voting on doing this for rinic garden I want to make sure that the forensic audit gets done I don't want to give a loophole for someone to get out of it down the road just because they want to not sure if understand I think the point of it is to say that if again if there are five respondents to the RQ the administration evaluates the respondents and we put one up for um your approval council's approval and if the council decides not to move forward with that one then we reevaluate and set up a different so going off that list right of people the response to the RFQ provided that if we run out of time we give them we give everybody on there the extension Etc so I'm sorry just if uh the attorney would like me to jump in and put my qpa hat on even though I'm not your qpa um the award would be made based on uh price and other factors considered it's not low bit uh so you're going to evaluate the the responses and uh decide based on price and other factors as you probably purchase most of the things in your life um the second thing is um they would always be the option to not um award a contract by the uh governing body if the price is all came in exorbitantly high compared to what you were expecting um you would naturally reject them all and reevaluate your finances um a third factor is um I was instructed not to put any money in the 2024 budget so this would be something uh that could not be awarded in the 20124 budget uh but would rather have to be done as part of the temporary budget in 2025 who instructed you to do that I spoke with the uh assistant administrator and the administrator I believe it was it was never voted on it's not in the budget amendment Council has to put it in for it to be there so I was like there's nothing underhanded here this is not voted on by Council you did not appropriate that money I think we all discussed this at the last when we did the budget amendment we said by the time this came out it would be on the next all right so this line This RFQ does not commit the township but West orang to award a contract can we just qualify that to any specific respondent you need to have the option reject they all come in at1 million if they all come in at $10 million langage in here that allows us to reject all of them oh thing you said no problem yeah um I I just have one last thought yeah um if I'm if I read this correctly and I don't have it in front of me is this for the 21 22 and 23 audits MH okay we haven't done the 23 audit yet we're doing a forensic audit before we're doing the regular audit or while we're doing the regular audit that was the the the thought we were going to go work backwards if do you think we should work forward do you think we should start with 21 and move forward 23 should be done by the time this was ever awarded yeah 23 will be done so you're going to have the auditor do the 23 audit and then immediately forensically audit that 23 audit is that the aor but okay and that's fine if that's the intent that's fine I didn't know if that was an oversight or not so I I'll so to councilwoman's point a moment ago we had a conversation either the last time we brought this up or the time before about expect about the expectations for the time frame the expectation is that by the time the RFQ goes out you have you know 30 days or 60 days or 45 days to respond and then 30 45 60 days to evaluate award we'd be at Christmas time anyway so um the we do expect that 23 will be done yes by Christmas of this year now to Mr rabbit's point we still wouldn't be able to start until January but um you know that's a minor yeah it's a minor time no as long as that was you're in t that's fine I just yeah because I mean we're almost done with 24 yeah Council question but don't have a different auditor than the 2122 years isn't 23 a different auditor yes so did you want to spend money or you see 21 and 22 and then you could always go back after you see the 23 report to do it for 23 no I I do want to do 23 as well um and there are other reasons for it it is not this even 21 and 22 don't really have much to do with the auditor so this isn't that I don't think the auditor um in in particular was deficient um you know our auditor at that time my concerns are deeper than that and um you know our regular auditor whoever they are they're going to they're going to deal with whatever we give them and they'll do some spot checks too but this is a different type of audit that is meant to uncover and better understand um our finances differently than our regular audit all right so I think I think I'm fine here you know I think that's a we could quibble but but right below that it does say the township reserves the right to reject for any reason all responses and components thereof and eliminate any and all respondents submitting this RFQ from consideration so I didn't want in the one sentence the ability for someone unilaterally to decide that they don't want to do the RFQ and then we've got to quibble over it and start this process over especially since it does say that we reserve the right to reject for any reason all responses and components thereof and generally when I would have influence over those contracts I would say for any reason or no reason just decide we don't want to do it it could be you know something came up financially and it's more important than than this right now or it could be a differently composed Council that decided not to do it so I I mean you don't need to put that in that Clause but I do think in this second line This RFQ does not commit the township of West Orange to award a contract to any specific respondent I think that um you I would hope my colleagues would support that yeah okay to any specific respondent uh at the end of that last uh sentence got it thank you sir going to the next page top of page seven Township reserves the right and sole judgment to reject any respondent that submits incomplete responses to this RFQ um there is language earlier in this about the difference between the township and the Town Council the Town Council is so if you go back purpose of request the township Council of West Orange seeks to retain a municipal auditor if we're the ones that are seeking to retain and we're going to decide who it is shouldn't this right at the top of page seven also rest with us and not the administration because when I read the township I think that means Administration versus Township Council the RFQ it's an RFQ so it's when the B come in it's the determination of the administration as to who is going to be put before the township Council or the friend but I don't not in this one this is under our investigatory Powers we are selecting the auditor the township is not selecting the auditor in this particular case we are as a five member body the rfqs are these requests for qualifications are in the power of the administration in order to determine who to put up for the council's approval or rejection for the contract well we had this conversation um before tonight we as a body want to select the auditor we've all discussed in and agreed that the five of us would select that auditor they will have the opportunity to either accept or reject when the administration puts well so we don't want to do that so here here's why if five people do respond and we go through those responses and we feel feel strongly or at least the majority of us feel strongly about anyone on there I don't want to have to go through five different votes to get to the one that we ultimately want to choose that that I'm not sure if off the top my head but my understanding of how this works is that the administration receives the responses and the administration puts it before the council ter who determined whether they want to accept or reject that response to the RF so so that is not how this particular one at least the way we've been discussing it so far is expected to go and we do need to be clear about that and so there are several places in here where it says the township reserves the right uh in the next paragraph it says it again in the next paragraph it says it again in the next paragraph the next one the next one um you know in one two 3 four five six paragraphs in a row it references the township and I think um some of those not all of them need to to reflect the Town Council Council yeah so again I hear what you're saying um but we still have the right at any given time to see all of them when they come in to look at them so I get it with back in order but we still have the right to review them we do but part of the challenge is getting this done in a timely fashion you go in and yet when they come in we could go in and we could we could look at them yes and then the the administration could decide not to put if we that's our former government my friend you know well this is also under investigatory powers and what you're suggesting is that the administration be able to choose the forensic auditor for themselves you just turn it down if you don't like it you're not it's still five it could be it could be 10 it could be who knows how many people will respond it might only be one and then we don't have the issue yeah but if we have five or seven or 10 well then we go in and you go look at them I right and then you've got 10 weeks you're going anyway to go look at look at them anyway even if you you do it your way you're still going in to look at them right the difference is we we as a body evaluate the responses we make the selection that we we choose and then we vote on that right and that would be done obviously we'd have to have some executive session or a working meeting to to figure out who we were going to choose but we would deliberate amongst ourselves look evaluate these responses and say okay well I want this one I want this one and once there are three for any one of them then we can vote on that that one instead of having the administration say well we want to put this one up and then coming back and well we want to put this one up put that one up and it just delays the process well I think either way by the time you get all of us together it delays the process so yeah I'm fine either way yeah I have to agree with you um given that we have this over oh given that we have this oversight responsibility why don't we just put the township Council and doing is there any reason why we can't it's a forner act you got to follow so have we have we done have what have we done in the past under the investig at powers of the Town Council can anyone share that with me no I don't any well I do years and years ago um under the Spen administration because there was a conflict because it involved the mayor and his son special councel was given to the township Council because the administration itself had a conflict and how did they go about choosing that special counsel that I couldn't tell you I no I mean I wasn't that involved in it to no right but I would I would assume that that the council was the ones who selected the count the council Cil was the ones who selected the council seal that would be my guess too right because you wouldn't want the administration to appoint the special counsel corre in a moment where there's a conflict and this is a similar situation but it happened last year anyway I'm not sure it is I'm not sure I agree with you but reason reasonable people can disagree I don't see the conflict with the mayor um putting somebody up I I think this falls under the local public contract law but I'm not an expert there so find out let's get a legal opinion i' I'd like to know we're still G to move forward with this at some P because this is going to take way too long and I and I you know I am concerned that some of these things may be intentional putting on the record now my concern is that like many other things this is this process has been slowed down intentionally so I'm trying not SL down we're doing it we you you if we had a meeting well ask the question Yeah Yeah by inserting language that requires us to debate on it and then if we end up not agreeing if we yeah if we end up not agreeing then we got to take more time and I think that that is certainly and I I think it's cynical to think that it's not like after all that we've been through I think it's cynical to think that this isn't hasn't been slowed down you didn't want the last meeting you you guys cancel last meeting in August we could have had this done last meeting it does not perhaps think where he's coming from councilman cine was that in other uh rfqs that we've had we haven't seen language like this while I understand that it is local public contract law he's just questioning it just based on you know past instances so I mean he has a right to express his concerns um I understand where you're coming from as well but you know as he said he wants to move this forward and along he's entitled to so council president if I may sure you last meeting I was here and Mr jengar and Mr B and you asked to do this so I SP I spoke to Mr BR to get this done she did this there is some language in here that is typically considered boiler plate because that's what it is and it makes it life easier for her um so suggest that you think it's cynical Miss renold's ethic not not with regard to miss Reynold this was comment directly toward but the language in here is not that this language wasn't put in here for us to debate tonight this is standard language um if there's things that we need to change we'll do that and we can work with our legal and everything else but I can assure you that Miss rynolds uses this language and a lot of other um um processes and so and if we need to correct we will to make it the fact was you wanted it for the next meeting we got it for you for the next meeting it's here and if we need to make amendments and we have finaly it for you for meeting we'll do that or even tonight whatever the case may be when we're here to work with you so we're trying to do what we can for you because you made that request much oblig Mr Smo I did tell if I may I did tell uh Mrs Reynolds that it shouldn't be released until Council gives its final impr fromon and by way of example if she had releas this you guys probably wouldn't have been happy with it because you have changes you want to make I want to come back to you when we make those changes and get a legal opinion on whether Council gets to select it in this unique circumstance or it's the administration that puts it up I don't want it to hit the street until council's well the selection process I think that I think it can still be released with you know the expectation that by the time we get to the evaluation period we will be clear on who is going to do the evaluation and the selection but the RFQ is is the RFQ that's the problem so they're responding to a written RFQ that's what we have to go by we can't change the game change is there language in here about who is choosing the uh because I didn't read it I didn't I mean I read this I didn't see language that says the administration the ba or standarda local public contract well right okay so if if you're going to have the ability to do that under your investigatory Powers which I'm not you have that's a legal opinion that's a decision it's not something I should be giving you we'll get that decis if we have to get special councel to give it I I would appreciate you doing your very best to figure that out while we're still in this meeting that I can't answer that question within an hour or two period of time I need to vet that that's not something the director of the Department of Law has to have some input in that as well I'm not going to be able to research this within the next 20 minutes or so and be able to get your response that's just not possible um I have a question but what I can do is get your response as soon as possible and it again it's an RFQ so we can send around the amended version of it you all can vet it if you approve it we can put it out for publication sometimes we have directors on can we see if we can get the director on tonight I mean we usually have other directors when we ask questions at like 10 or 11 o'clock at night they're on can we ask this at least question regarding the RFQ just to satisfy council president I can see if I can get him on phone can I ask a question and and again I'm not being fresh here my my this is important to you and and I get this why isn't there discussions before we get here so we can move along I I I'm getting let me tell you what let me tell you what we have five planning board meetings in August alone right we've got this we've got all these other crazy issues that are going on in town that take up time and I I and me too I've been very you're not on the planning board and you're not dealing with those issues okay but I have other my own issues in my neighborhood that I've been dealing with and and but issues as well but we still have to get if you have a question you could send an email I will give councilman kovia kudos for when when he was here he would have a list of questions that he would give hand in um before Sunday of the meeting or even Monday morning of the meeting and and the administration would all always answer it so a lot of this angst could be avoided on on and that we could get done in a quicker manner if the questions are sent in so can I no one second so I hear you grandstanding let's be very you are I have the microphone I'm I'm frustrated too I just explained to you we had five planning board meetings in August alone five right and you're not on that you're not required to be there you're not required to do site visits you're not required to meet with the public and you're not required to read all those documents or review transcripts before the meeting and I am and and you did not have the same issues with your your submission of your petitions as I did which required me to go and spend enormous amounts of time with an attorney that I had to take from somewhere else and like you I have a family like you I have a job like you I have other Council responsibilities that they're only 24 hours in a day so you may not like how we got here but we are here right and and we wouldn't be here if our former CFO didn't pay bills without Council approval that's that's what started this and he's right that's a direct violation of New Jersey and that's not speculation our municipal code can't do that and we all took an oath to uphold the New Jersey Constitution when we became elected officials I'm here know but the whole point is you make these points councilman Cino and it's not fair at the end of the day if it is his right if he chooses to wait to come to the council meetings to ask questions in front of the public so that way people are here real time hearing answers and that's his right as an elected official and that's fine you to have answers Johnny on the spot but we do we do for other uh resolutions and ordinances there's always directors on so it's not fair to car probably on there now know it's not fair to pick and choose like he has a right to say what he say he does he absolutely does but for you to dis it sounds like you're disparaging him that's not fair okay well I apologize we're we're almost done so you official SC for all adults let yes he has a right to do things the way he wants as do you so to that effect Mr Abbott in the second to last paragraph neither the township nor its respective staff Consultants or advisors shall be liable for any claims or for damages resulting from the solicitation or Preparation of the qualification statement there shall be no reimbursement to respondents for the cost of preparing and submitting a qualification statement for participating in this procurement process that's standard like why I I don't has anyone ever been reimbursed for their cost to submit uh that that language is in every RFQ so that's nobody can come back and sue you and say well you told us you were gonna do this and I spent 40 hours 80 hours 120 hours prepar this and paid my people to do it and now you decided you're not going to do it yeah I just found an interesting because I I I would be shocked that people would do that but I guess I guess maybe they do can't when that's in there okay all right uh turning to page eight 3.3 say Circle back council president I spoke with the director of the Department of Law his initial reaction was the same is what I reiterated that the council reviews contracts we're happy to look into it further and get back to you well we will will have time between when it goes out and when the responses come in so during that time we will look at it further if that is what you is up that is thank you very much so that we're clear we will submit this and still be able to uh make sure that the council or understand what the law says about the council's rights to choose the auditor between the time that the RFQ goes out and the time that we begin to evaluate um Can the administration please notify us before it goes out just give us a heads up maybe like a week before or a couple weeks before that that it's going out on this day via email to us with something as important as this please thank you I would think that once we make the Amendments we'll recirculated around and it'll have wonderful it'll have dates so thank you and uh the cost analysis 3.3 and thank you Council woman um was there anything that else that I missed while I was no sir just you missed just a bunch of back and forth which you are lucky to have missed you're welcome okay um in cost analysis 3.3 um respondents should submit a cost proposal for the services to be be provided at a flat fixed rate is that how it's normally done when we first started talking about this the the concern was that it was that you know it was going to be very expensive because of the amount of it was going to be very expensive because of the amount of time which implied to me an hourly uh billing structure is that not so I don't understand you don't want to give them an open checkbook that's the point if you're if you're if you're going to let them do an hourly the rate and they tell you it's $200 an hour they're just going to keep running the clock at least if they come back and say I can do it year 21 for x amount of dollars 22 for x and 23 for X you know what it's going to cost you make the decision whether you want to do it or not even if you put a not to exceed in you're just going to have to keep racing the anti you know what's going to happen they're going to come in and say well we blew through that 175 you know don't blow through 175 having coffee and talking about this they'll come back and they'll say we need another 175 and they'll come back and say we need another 175 I just find it interesting that we're we're doing that on this particular one and you could change it I mean no I just we should change it on the others right like if if it's good for this if this is good fiscal management It is Well we should but this is a this is a like a fixed project so in other words like with Mr beckelman his firm builds by the hour we can't get a fixed number because we don't know when we're going to need them what we're going to need them for you know a new project comes up so most Professional Services are hourly This was meant to save money if you want to leave it at hourly and just put a not to exceed in at but we we have H an hourly rate for Mr uh for inum cmfo uh it's a particular period of time you know what the job entails like but we didn't we didn't do a flat fix rate for that right but and we're back again tonight asking for more money that's my point so and that's my point if it's good for this right if it's good for this then it should be good for the others too I don't see it working there but listen Council controls the pur strings if that's the way you want to resolutions and coordinat as you can all right and I just wanted to not note in the next paragraph um it says uh the flat fix fees should be separated by year that's what I was referencing earlier where you know the first where we made the Clause uh I make sure that that I understood this uh contract very well with the breakdown by year does that mean we will have the opportunity to select for an example just year 21 and 22 and if we choose the waight on 23 you do that or are we asking no that's what we asked for yeah it I just want to make sure okay and also for the benefit of the public because it is a hefty document for anyone who might have not read it because you know if we just ask for one flat price right whatever the rate is uh for the three years it might be a lot more expensive right for certain companies versus the breakdown yearly and then us being able to pick and choose so it actually gives you the ability to have more than one vendor great okay I just don't want to be pigeon hold in a sense you know right it's all no yeah yeah I was just gonna Echo that okay it's all correct council president just to make sure that consistent what you want on page three you said Andor 2023 do you want that to be Andor on this also well I think it's clearer here it says it's separated by years make sure so we can well that's why I asked because I wasn't sure yeah no I want to be able to if the numbers come in ridiculously high or if it's a tough budget year to be able to still do one year and not be obligated to do three um all right and section five and I think we're just about done this actually is the last one yes sir 5.1 evaluations second sentence the township will consider qualification statements only firms and individuals I think there's a word missing there in the Township's judgment have demonstrated the capability and willingness to provide high quality services I'm not clear what that sentence is saying from only firms and individuals supposed to say from and and in the townships judgment like yeah like I don't know if we doctor it up is that what you're intending to say there that have demonstrated the capability and willingness perhaps after the comma we could add the word which which in the the Township's judgment which comma in the Township's judgment is that what you they would read the township will consider qualification statements oh oh I see from only firms and individuals which which in the Township's judgment have demonstrated yeah I I so I support that Amendment we would be adding the word from after qualification statements and then we would be adding the word which after individuals comma all right the last one is in the rank ranking percentage okay so I I um I understand the value in the second to last one uh utilization of local contractors and businesses whenever possible I don't want that to be a criteria here in case we get a respondent from far away um who you know does not have the relationships Network to partner with someone locally quickly they would automatically be at a 5% disadvantage okay yeah so so is there a proposed amendment to that I I propose that we strike the five that 5% it's got to go elsewhere and yeah we can talk about that part but want to make sure my colle just so you know that was put in there because they wanted to make sure that we weren't getting out of state people who weren't familiar with New Jersey Law so if you wanted to clarify that to be certified New Jersey auditing procedures let hope I'm fine with that somebody from K May County wants to perform this that's fine but you don't want somebody from wany who's not no I totally understand and age I don't have an issue with that so if you want to say the utilization of contractors and business business is doing work in New Jersey or or performing work in New Jersey something to that effect and then you're getting a New Jersey so I think I'm I'm understanding it differently now in as a result of your um statement my my understanding was that whoever the auditor was if they needed to subcontract they would have to find or they would have they would get 5% more or up to 5% more a higher score if they were to use local contra contractors and businesses to help perform that service is that not what that means the way I was it was told to me that we're looking to use contractors that are familiar with New Jersey and are in New Jersey and not somebody's from out of state I think that's close all right so let's just say so so let's so just to prude people who are not in Jersey um finances right so how can we say that so that they are familiar with accounting principles in New Jersey maybe Mr Bono can help or Mr Jenaro I don't know Jersey LIC register Municipal account exactly just like comens which is the accounting that we Ed so let's just go with the RMA is that can we add some language that it is an RM New Jersey license RMA is that the right way to say it Jersy LIC RMA corre so after so would read the utilization of local contractors and businesses no I think it would say take that out yeah it would say it would say uh is a New Jersey licensed RMA strike local contractors businesses whenever possible just say the utilization of New Jersey licensed RMA that are we hitting it right Mr Bono does that make sense yeah I'm just think because I don't know if any you don't want them to have to hire just rmas like I think Ron is a who's working with PK Conor is contractor of PK Conor he's certainly qualified he has years of experience in New Jersey municipalities uh doing New Jersey municipal accounting so kind of circle back on this um if you got use a firm you want to use an RMA based firm uh local experience with New Jersey AOA um accounting spell what is Ooa in West Orange they work on insurance company say help us what is Ooa the other comprehensive basis of accounting which isens basis of account that all New Jersey municipalities are required to use M oh sorry tuning in to here probably it's the other comprehensive bases of in many way similar to Gap accounting but not the same as Gap accounting or New Jersey municipalities must use aboa okay so how would we capture it for that 5% I I don't think I I don't think it's relevant to this RFQ all right one two three four five so there are five other categories can we just add 1% to each get rid of that line have 1% to each the only thing you would do licensed if they're they know the law yeah you need you need Specialists the only thing you would do is if and it's there's nothing material in this work that I I believe would be done but let's say you wanted to have confirmations printed it out to people who paid their taxes or um receive bills um the the idea of a a CL like that is to give that kind of work to a local subcontractor local printer right I I don't think it's material in this case got thank you so so we're gonna strike that just add 1% to each one of the other five categories got it that is it for me and since none were objected to I don't think um councilwoman no no all right so Madam clerk can we vote on the I off for a motion that we um I'm sorry council president I just didn't know if Council scared anything oh had a quick back on seven the agenda is that standard the agenda where it says uh 2.4 where the uh perod to provide preparation for the RSP the township May issue agenda amendments or answers to written questions do you usually go back and forth like that I was just wondering if it yes okay no at least I that's my understanding all right okay is there a second on the Amendments second okay Council woman castelino councilwoman gab Michael councilwoman farpa council president Rutherford yes okay and now I'll take a vote on the overall offer a motion to approve 270 what is this one27 with amendments with Amendment as amended okay perfect um councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michel councilwoman Scarpa council president rber yes okay perfect the motion carries all right 271 271 resolution authorizing a Professional Services agreement with vbl logic LLC to provide financial consulting services from September 10 2024 through December 31st 2024 at a rate of $200 per hour with a maximum cap of $5,000 councilwoman gber Michael yes so I pulled this um because okay first off on the first page one two the third whereas it's saying that he served as an intrum uh CFO starting April 2024 and I'm just kind of confused where April came from because we didn't even know of him or interview him until end of July so I mean how is it that he was doing I guess this a question for the administration how is it that that he's able to do work without a contract in April in May and June when we well not me because when the council voted on the on his contract end of July so I'm just confused isn't that again a violation Vince has done work for the township all along he can do work up to 175 without contract um the administration can retain him and then and then beond that I understand thank you please explain because people have asked me residents have asked me about this that that's at uh we got up I started helping John close out the um 2023 year um and as we got closer to the 175 then it was determined that there would be a need for a resolution and at that point they put in the resolution I do agree with you that's a little confusing because it does site me as CFO during the entire period which I don't feel is entirely accurate yeah and I don't know if there's a way to cure that at this point but um just for the record that uh I was just simply helping out until the governing body appointed me interim CFO well thank you for helping out um I'm going to be transparent nothing personal because I don't know you thank you for helping the Township in you know during our dire need um but I don't feel like there's a need uh for this considering our CFO starts on Monday we also vote it for two professional service contracts for vendors that are also helping financially so again as you know Chief mentioned this is open pocketbook at $200 an hour and you're saying 50, thousands the cap that just seems like a lot of money that we're spending um you know we're always talking about budget budget budget so you know thank you but I'm I'm a no on this contract so remember we also have no assistant Finance director since Stephanie okay understood but but I just want to be transparent that even the night when you guys voted on this contract I was told you guys were going to journ the meeting so I'd left uh executive session I don't vote on contract I understand that I'm just explaining so the public knows so I was you know I I never had the opportunity I guess to vote on it so I don't know if the whole point is I I feel like we're spending money unnecessarily um and if we need a what what what position did you say a finance director an assistant Finance director John detc needs to sit in on those interviews and pick his right hand correct then we should do that and open it up we already have resumes but hasn't come on board yet I'll let Vince tell you this story about you know his first time doing a his CFO job and you want to just relay that I've heard this no we get it need something to help joh transition that's that's the understand I think I think they two so so to her point you know to the point we just making with the this this r c the prior one it's uh it's open ended it's a blank check to to use your to use your terminology second um what insurance is and I and I would appreciate uh uh the entire invoicing from April on so that we know we didn't go over 175 we have some concerns about the prior CFO I don't have any about the current CFO he hasn't started yet um third this 50,000 we just talked about money not being budgeted money not being budgeted for the forensic AIT until next year um we weren't able to to do it this year because of that or at least one of the reasons why but we've got an additional 50,000 to pay um in interim cmfo and that's not a knock on you at all I know you're qualified I know I've seen your resume we've had conversations you've acquitted yourself very well uh in here um but like you know sometimes we we have a an Ro to doing the business one way over here and a different approach in a different situation and I think that's not the right way to do it so um I just if I can um if I may the awarding a contract that's going to cost you know probably several hundred, do is completely different than using the salary that we're not paying the assistant Finance director to privatize and pay Vince I mean I think John is going to be at a tremendous loss he's going to be coming in with you know two strikes on him if he doesn't have somebody here who knows allthough every town is different it's not like every town is exactly the same no the fin finances are exactly the same so I mean for this guy here and you know have nobody to talk to to show him where things are I think it's a mistake on our part and the fact is Vince has been with the town for so many years he's intimate with a lot of the different accounts so he can at least it and it'll be up to Mr deten act to say Hey listen you know I think I got it from now and we we have a cap and and we can utilize this expertise to that point just to just to we don't want our we don't want our new CFO to fail it should diminish as as we move closer to December 31st the hours that John daac needs from Vince brono should lessen and lessen and lessen to the point where he's paying nothing I mean I didn't want to put 175 and then come back in here and tell you I need more money I'd rather just have a cap and we're trying to spend it no I understand I think um well I'll I'll let you go first Council so again um we are in a situation where we're trying to oh wait till you guys are done you can go ahead I mean we can I can listen to you too okay so um I we're we're putting ourselves in a situation to fail we are starting off with the new CFO who need needs to get acclimated and I just don't understand the hesitancy we were all in a meeting that we did not say was going to end at that particular time that we uh we stayed and we heard uh we stayed with uh Vince that evening and heard some of the the issues at hand which I'm going to careful stating in public that we that needed to be addressed and those issues are being addressed and at the very same time we're seeing progress so to stop moving that progress forward I think is going to be detrimental uh to to the uh to the administration we we also have another employee in there who just gave notice we have an interview set up for you know about a week week from Wednesday I think it is um to replace her but you know she's going to have to be trained and so on if if if her interview goes well she's even higher um we don't have an abundance of of people looking for these jobs so that's another person down that you know everybody in here stressed out already they're doubly stressed out because the the budget if the amendment doesn't get pass tonight then that pushes us to the 24th they have to stuff all these tax bills by hand with senior citizens and so on it's it's there's a lot of moving Parts in there and the folks in there are kind of stressed out and we're doing our best to help them out here and you know we we have prob we we get Vince in here when we can it's not like he's going to come in here and and burn hours up and Bill us for times not spending here that's for sure in demand so um I understand those arguments and uh I'm still I no um pilling morale I think the morale has been de just demolished over a long period of time it is not this Council it's not this year it is not the last two years this has been something going on for years and years and years um and two we took a tough vote earlier this year at the request of town hall employees they we rejected two contracts for similar reasons town hall employees raised their voice let it be known that that was going to put them in a significantly disadvantaged position we came back it was presented again and we voted for it if Mr dinc comes in and and feels like he's at a significantly disadvantaged position I am certain he will let us know and if that's the case then we can also Rec consider but as of now given the way things have been moving I am not inclined to vote Yes so I think we we beaten a dead horse that's a good point and you know I said I'm not going to vote for the budget if it's over 2% and we're over 2% now and we got to find some places to cut I said Consultants were a place new employee hires that don't need to be hired in the next two or three months I'm not going to vote for the budget if it's over 2% and I think this is somewhere where we have to start I have a question so with this gets rejected this evening which which it sounds like that's where it's going when is your last day Friday would be my last day I assume I'm going to resign on Friday and uh the contract that I'm under um has me in as as CFO no it's okay I'd like to make a motion to okay can I just say one thing um when I uh talked about this um I came in and I said I could probably give about a day per week um I I just um went back and did a little research it looks like I've been doing about 12 to 13 hours a week uh I didn't have 12 to 13 hours a week um and those 12 to 13 hours a week every week were a complete Sprint uh there wasn't a a deep breath there wasn't a moment at the water cooler uh there is a whole lot to do here um I'm not dying to go on I mean I'm I'm okay I'm not walk out and shed a tear just so we're clear um but if I were sitting on the Das right now I would have me stay on a little bit longer to give John that um help finding things help knowing where things are um help understanding where the files are um when my first job was in Guttenberg uh I got three months of parallel time with the going out CFO and that made all the difference in the world uh in terms of the total number um 50 $50,000 I will never get to $50,000 this year um I really don't think I can even give you the eight hours a week that I had said I would do while I was CFO so if you've got 10 weeks left at eight hours um that's probably was that come to 16,000 if I do it right um so uh believe me I will never get to 50,000 uh I think you gave John his best shot if you bring me on um if you continue um and um you know make it at his discretion um and yes I do expect to fade out and no I don't expect to be here eight hours in in December are you willing to entertain an amendment or are you still in why don't we do it not to exceed like 10,000 I'm comfortable with 10,000 yeah then do it or no I mean because if it's once a week how I mean what is he going to do the rest of the week right he's got five days working here and'll come back and ask for exact same yeah same same but but my question is what happens let's say if you you come in every Monday right for eight hours right until you I guess reach the 10,000 what happens if you need you on a Wednesday or a Thursday or Friday how is it that the one day is going to help him for the rest of the year it's gonna eat up quicker I'm I'm just trying to understand isn't it better to come on for like two weeks consecutively and then to help him or three weeks consecutively and then it might be better actually a week doesn't make sense from a management perspective because I also work in administration that doesn't make sense to me for someone you're trying to on board if you're coming once a week till December four months yeah I understand it in a perfect world I would want me hear eight hours on Monday next Monday seven hours on Tuesday six hours on Wednesday five hours on Thursday three hours on Friday and probably two hours a day thereafter I can't do that I don't have that ability with the other commitments I have okay um I am have made myself available to all the staff here by cell phone by email cell phone uh and texting most I get pictures every day of of things they want me to look at uh and I'll work with them on that basis 10,000 is a you comforable yeah but I still don't stand the through December I mean how long I'm just anyway I guess at John's request or as as needed on an as needed basis well it is is yeah so off of the amendment I'm not enthusiastic but if it's needed I I make an amendment or or not I'm not honestly I'd rather hear from John let him come in on Monday and tell us that he needs you he might want someone else to to to assist him that's he might want to talk to the staff I think we're we're putting the horse the horse before the the car before the horse that's a good idea um so you're you're saying your last day would be this Friday or next Friday no I have to step down to CFO because Sean's gonna become the CFO right but he starts on Monday yeah correct so in right so you're done this you can't have two CFOs you can have one CF both both finalists in their interviews said they they sought to have time for transition with somebody in house well was John Gro still here or Vince they no nobody said I can walk in the door and turn the K show me where the light Swit and I'm good sometime I I like I said I'm I'm willing to I'm not enthusiastic but I'm willing to make a motion to for the max capity that's in the one two three four five fifth whereas claws y maximum cap of 10,000 I mean these Council meetings alone these hours here will that work it'll help it have to work then he's got to make his own case if he wants or someone else okay well it should be honestly my opinion it should be someone who's going to be available five days a week for someone new who's coming in Nobody Knows the system so even if they hire an assistant John's gonna have to train the assistant I understand so hopefully he can do it within that amount of money and time and and he can make his casee right so so the amendment has been offered and second second um okay sorry clarify that's a change not to exceed CLS in the resolution and the agreement to $10,000 yes correct but it's it's uh yeah it says Max c ma of 10,000 okay on the amendment uh councilwoman celino no councilwoman gerer Michel yes councilwoman scorpa yes council president Rutherford yes okay and then for the approval is there a motion to approve 27124 I want to make another amendment I don't think it should be to December 31st because again maybe after a month won't need Mr buo anymore and he might want someone else who's going to be here fulltime and you guys are interviewing people already so I would like to change it from September 10 2024 through October 10 2020 uh counc if November if 10,000 suceed it doesn't matter what month they have to come back I understand that but it's the time frame so that way maybe it'll light a fire to H up and hire people he spends 0,000 he coming back whoever we hire isn't going to be able to do what Vince does for JN JN needs to train that that person is gonna work for John I don't know if that's making sense but you know you got the president of the company you're hiring the vice president it's not like well once we get the vice president they'll come in and they'll teach John how to do it the president how to do December 31st then so I mean again yeah if John doesn't need me I won't be here I just want to make sure that we're H like practically hiring we're not waiting because again this is poor management if we knew the CFO was retiring last November when he announced it in a council meeting right like the administration should have made sure to put it out in the winter or this early spring we should have interviewed the people earlier on not the last week of July when he's retiring August 1 I'm not even going to that so that doesn't even make sense he did not put his papers in hold on but he announced it in a council meeting that he was leaving I tell you what next time what we'll do we'll advertise like you want us to do and we'll say he might leave he might not but when he leaves we can hire you but give your two weeks notice and we'll let you know when they come on board why did we not get can't interview people we don't don't know John's Le but my issue is the timeline The Accelerated hold on a second hold on a second hold on a second hold on a second hold so late hold on a second hold on a second so what is reasonable to do right when you don't know when the timeline how long you have before your CFO is going to leave is to hire a deputy and with the understanding that when that CFO leaves the deputy will become the CFO you will interview you can put all your language out there train person the reason so the reason that doesn't work is because in a big town like West Orange you need somebody who has the experience that Vince or John or somebody like that has they are not leaving their job as a cmfo to come as a deputy here even if they think that they're going to get the job down the road because there's no guarantee they're not going to do that okay all right well I mean you know so we we've already beaten this horse up pretty well do we vote yet well so the amendment was 10,000 no just 10,000 just the 10,000 that was voted on that was voted on I didn't know if there was now we have to vote to approve as amended is there a motion is there a second yeah I second thank you councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scara council president brether yes okay the motion carries all right it's 273 pull that all right so this agreement went out weeks ago to this Council and as far as obviously there's questions I had questions I like and this is a negotiation I would like to request make a motion to go into close session for a quick close session so we could give guidelines to the attorney so we could keep this ball rolling here is there a second no second so we're not going to discuss this we're not going into closed session to discuss it uh I do want to offer a motion to table this um I've spoken with our attorneys both of them Mr beckelman and Mr Johnson um I understand the developers position on getting it done quickly I think if we table it till our next meeting that won't significantly uh impact the developer if it impacts him at all um so I would offer a motion that we table it until our next meeting is there a second can I ask a question yeah so I don't understand what is the harm of going in to have a quick discussion so we could give input to the attorney so the next meeting we may have something more tangible to work with that is my question to you folks why are you refusing to go negotiate at something so he could have something to come back with and then we could have a better conversation at the next meeting I'll comment because we've been told not to add anything to the agenda until it's voted on and then it goes on in the next meeting it's been very made clear since I've been on the council what the process is and if we do this then people are going to say why are you picking and choosing it's not right we have to be consistent this is a negoti does not matter it does not matter if we are not allowed to add items on I've asked for a special Council in meetings before and I mean for executive session talk about things I'm told no we have to vote on it and then it goes on the next meeting that's how it works okay so we have to remain consistent it is only fair okay and sometimes you have time timelines that you got deal with can't good governance too bad this whole process is skewed okay sorry so there's a there's a there's a motion on the floor to table until our next meeting our next regular second meeting okay councilwoman Castle yes councilwoman gber Michael no councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman William I'm sorry council president Rutherford yes okay so the motion fails so what does that mean now it's GNA be effectively the same thing if you offer a motion to approve you're not probably not goingon to get second no I'm not ready for that so then they'll have to be brought back anyway okay so madam clerus there are you ready to hear a motion to approve 273 sure can you call for that can we call it can the administration pull it well no if nobody's nobody's gonna offer it or nobody seconds it no that was for table to approve so if you're not going to approve say no uh is someone would have to offer the motion to approve yeah I know that's what I was going to do next to approve this resolution okay is there a second seeing none motion I'll second okay now it's gonna fail right I know um councilwoman celino I'm going to abstain okay hold on a [Music] minute okay councilwoman G Michael no okay councilwoman Scarpa no council president Rutherford and this is the mo to approve correct so that I'm clear Mr Jenaro in order to approve you would require three votes to approve it yeah yeah yeah this is just come on guys um and so the impact of this not being approved now would mean what it would fail would fail and then could it just be brought back at the next council meeting should have that's up to the administra okay okay bring it back I don't know Matrix is going to come back but I I'll I'll this is we already have two Nos and an exstension so this is why yeah where is she listen I get it you're upset about that and and and I am too but at the same time understand why we can't just pull this and we have you tried I offered the motion it failed so there are consequences for your actions so just so I'm clear the the motion is to approve correct and there two no and there's an abstention I'll vote Yes okay the motion fails fa all right um I would like to amend our agenda Council um approval support uh to adjourn the rest of our regular meeting oh no I'm sorry we have to do the budget hearing and then we can do the ABC okay because there's nobody here so right but we just have to go through the procedure yes so Council pres do you have your spr uh I I don't know what I did with it I just had it a moment ago oh here we go here we go I got I got um uh um so the meeting uh for the public hearing for the municipal budget will now come to order clerk will call the RO councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes council president Rutherford this is the time fixed for the public hearing on the municipal budget and tax resolution for 2024 the budget was introduced on first reading by the township Township Council on July 9th 2024 and was advertised as required ired on July 25th 2024 a second notice was sent to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on August 27th 2024 for the purpose of rescheduling the public hearing for tonight before opening this hearing I wish to outline the procedure each person Desiring to be heard will rise and give his or her name and address before speaking I will recognize one speaker at a time and Order of rising as nearly as I can determine address all questions to the chair where NE necessary they will be referred to individual members of the governing body or Municipal officials questions must be confined solely to the municiple budget before us school or County matters are not proper subjects of this hearing and cannot be discussed or answered here tonight I will entertain a motion to open the public hearing on the municipal budget and tax resolution of 2024 second to open I need a second okay second thank you councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman scar council president Rutherford yes okay public hearing public hearing is now um open if there's only one person in the gallery if you would like to address this you're welcome to seeing none uh observing no further applicants from the floor I will now entertain a motion to close the public hearing make a motion to close public hearing thank you that was the second yes um councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes council president rer yes okay the motion carries the hearing is closed thank you so now I with your permission colleagues want to adjust our agenda so that we can adjourn our regular meeting and go or recess our regular meeting and go into the ABC hearing don't we have to finish the ordinances well we we're going to come back to those um we're working on a time constraint and and that one has a time constraint too uh so it was a request that was made and I entertain and honoring yeah you can V Madam clerk asked us I asked them to asked us to change the order move up I'm I just understand because nobody's here so I didn't know midnight oh I didn't understand I thought somebody was no um I just have a question maybe I'm I'm confused um we prep a um budget amendment resolution for vote for tonight is that still of interest to be on the agenda uh for our next meeting next meeting yeah not for tonight when does the budget have to be approved so just so the process is there'll be the resolution at the next meeting and then the public hearing on the amendment at the meeting after you can't do the public hearing no that'll be the first meeting you can vote tonight and then have the public hearing next week or next meeting if you want too we should probably do public hearing next week we shouldn't wait until the next meeting on the budget amendment yeah are there any questions on the budget amendment it was circulated budget amendment we um took the adjustments that we would have to take a vote from the floor to add it it would take all four of us to do it am I right Madam clerk on there right we would have to take it's not on there it's not on the no it's I give permission wait I public hearing on the 2020 Municipal budget is on the agenda the amend this is SE are you considering a resolution to vote on the uh budget the resolution for the budget amendment is what's what you have to decide if you want to deal with tonight I think we should have a special meeting next week to do I don't have time even if it's like a lunch one hour I I important and our Council colleagu be here as well for this I mean we got anty I don't think we should be making amendments or voting on something like this I don't care I need a break corre the amendment is only what council added there like the administration didn't put anything in the amendment they said we're not voting I'm confused I we not voting on The so the the the amendment is it was delivered to us on Thursday and the request was to add it on to this meeting um I was not compl doing that without having proper time to do it um not noticing the public all of those things so I agree I didn't do it that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for it which apparently there are um but these are the these are the these are the amendments that we voted on the majority of which were amendments that I recommended um you know when I looked at it I wasn't quite sure um so I you know I don't know I mean you really you you you think about it you voted in by majority to make the amendment you know like if you if you added money to the budget no one person could do that you had to have I think four votes out right four four votes to do it so you kind all you're doing is really confirming what you've already done isn't really a big step but it's a timely step so my my question would be you know because there's there are other things on this budget amendment than just what we voted on and so I wasn't clear about why that was the case I'm sure Vince can speak to that sure um number one there was a goal of getting the budget increase down to about 2% and we were able to use a little more Surplus in certain places uh based on the um results of the annual financial statements um and the second is there are quite a number of grants that were not included in the budget that have no impact on the taxpayers um but were um grants that the uh Township chose to accept and therefore would be as a matter of course included in the budget and that you'll see if does everybody have the amendment I I haven't had time to look at it um that's that's pretty much the first page so have we gotten it down to 2% great 2.03 or something like that but it's right there well we can add it if if you if you're comfortable with the 2.03 without reading I know it's 2.03 I mean we were one we already cut right we took it sounds like there's nothing controversial 27 mostly throwing in we took out 800,000 we add it back like a 100 or so I'm okay with it I'm okay councilwoman comes back we can a motion to add it yeah and then if uh but then again you think we can have a special meeting next week no would we wouldn't need it we would just have it at the regular meeting yeah we wouldn't need this problem make a motion to change we have look at actually look always I don't think I will I don't think we will I don't think I'm willing to just all right where's the councilman is she okay so Council when we discussed this we are going to I'm going to offer a motion to uh add the budget amendment uh as sent to us on Thursday September 5th to our agenda right now for a vote I just need a copy of it I just want to look at it real quick I'll send I don't I don't did she give us a hard copy did she give us a hard copy I got Michelle I'm sending it to you I know but excuse me mad CL give me a copy too just right if I may one second sir just so that you're clear on what was um just discussed councilwoman yeah so part of the challenge was there are things on here that were not a part of our amendments Mr Bono clarified what they were um and for her benefit you're welcome to do it again but uh basically there were some grants that um weren't included on the other one that are included here oh and there was the usage of surplus um in some particular places he didn't specify which but when taken in conjunction with the cuts we made the increas is now down to 2.03% which I could which I could swallow 2.03 so but just so you're clear it's going to take all four of us to one get it on the agenda and then all four of us to pass just it real fail we got to make sure we can do this let's let's L okay is that what you were going to say make you're going to need your attorney oh it does it have to be the public notice to do it my public hearing is at the next meeting for the amendment so my fear is adding items to the agenda without at the last second without advertising the same accordance with the sunshine on so I understand I think though to if it's a super majority you can but you help you're welcome to well this is a see what I can find real quick but that's that would be my hesitancy from the legal department and I don't know if I can answer it in 30 seconds but I'm certainly gonna try y it's all right she's making cop got a little time we could have also went an executive session but well they didn't get the votes I know and I could do this same here but I won't because no because we got to get the budget done it's it's September 10th we had a third quarter estimated tax bill that residents were not happy we've done it this late three years in a row and they're not happy I think our new CFO we should have his first goal is to get the budget out on goals and objectives clarify and uh since we have a moment of pause if I may add uh anything that we do vote on would be subject to approval by the director division of local government services we have sent down a copy of this um telling them that it has not been voted on it's it's a routine way of doing it um we haven't heard any objections yet but um there's always a possibility got it can you clarify for me the rental environmental cender from 6879 to 150 I cannot I don't know yeah same question in fact I need a copy of that um whatever the lease for 150 I that's one of the things state did ask me for Environmental Center from 687 down to 150 something we're renting to somebody that should be the rent that the Nature's Choice us right yeah did that change this year so that went down way up this year yeah that didn't that's the one you asked me in the phone that day when we went over that went that went up significantly it went up I'm showing 687 last year yeah why is it 150 this year is it because we're at the end of the year or we did the whole new contract with with the uh do we make more money we make a lot more we make a lot more right now so there's going to show a significant increase this year's budget as a revenue not as an expense oh oh is this is the no this is our rent so the rent went down no wait so section g special items of General Revenue anticipated prior written consent of directed local government services that's fuzzy rental Environmental Center 6879 down to 150 yeah and you're still at a one you're still at a 203 increase yeah that's interesting yeah we used more General Capital fund balance we used uh some more Reserve to pay debt service wait so how could that be our only Revenue are we have are we getting revenue on the items or we do get a call you know 75,000 I believe it was well that's what I mean that's why I'm confused because I thought we had an increase on that contract I did too on the rent and the bonus for the additional payment can't I gota look at the way to contract structure uh I don't remember was orig [Music] okay we lower down [Music] we have the list the Amendments that we have from that night I they're all in here we didn't miss anything well did you check do we have the list of the Amendments that they're all there we didn't miss anything like the running list yeah so I would just be we about adding something to the agenda even if there were four votes I mean the Township ordinance clearly states that the agenda shall be completed not later than 3M on Thursday preceding each regular meeting of the council except for emergency M matters which may be added to the agenda at any time before the meeting with permission of the president of the council so now that we're in the meeting I would just be weary that would be my legal advice thank you I I also Echo what you said which is part of what I said to council what are the repercussions of of waiting and doing this how are we we just have a special meeting for this next week well we're going to have to if we don't do it tonight yeah we're gonna have to we can do a zoom for an hour yeah and I rather get the list of what we our work list so we can make sure nothing was missed yeah all right I mean I checked it quickly but I didn't have the list on it I didn't have it at the time well this isn't itemized that way there's a level of trust you to yeah um all the Amendments should be listed in the minute I have it in my budget yeah and my budget why have my budget book with I mean you can go to compare it now Section 8 General Appropriations and you'll see where some changes have been made but it's not itemized the way that we voted on it but they are aggre aggregated so should we pick a date right now for this meeting next week um works I think we should do it I think she needs to send I I got two I'll have uh didn't take what time's your lunch 12 or one it do matter was lunch can you get out and see at school after 12 Monday Mond Friday Monday and Friday I have training on our new system un City at 1:00 you got to make sure you got Mr F to to zoom us can you do Thursday at lunch yeah oh yeah Thursday the 19th or 12th 12th yeah yeah absolutely 12 yeah uh I I think I can I may have a closing but I think I can I'll try to make it not on that time what time is say 12 well whatever time works forar I'll make myself available 12:00 12 give me 12:15 is that enough time uh madam cl to do 12:00 Tuesday Thursday we need we need Mr fake and we need somebody to zoom us we need yeah but yeah advertised prior to it being it has to be voted on and then then advertise public hearing okay yeah so yeah so this week should be fine okay right yeah we keep those dates you're available are you avilable yes sorry we all gonna be on zoom we're not gonna be in person yeah okay it doesn't matter so you're good on Thursday 12:00 12 or 12:15 I thought 12:15 is that works me and and question is it a workshop no are you available uh Mr Bon 12:15 on Thursday Thursday virtual you don't next Thursday this and like do you have to have public a comment is it a workshop or is it a it's not the hearing the hearing is going to be at our next meeting if we do it this way so because it has to be advertised once once you approve the amendment has to be advertised and then you do a hearing yes sir will we be able to make 1:00 I'm available yeah I could do one one one o' Thursday uh yeah is the zoom open to the public yes right saying is it a workshop or do do have public com 4 hour notice well let them comment nobody's coming I don't care about that 48 that meeting is this an is this considered some sort of an emergency I mean we are up against the state deadline well that's true well then we could do it tonight we could have did it tonight Friday I'm available Friday if I can miss the municip meeting no that's a 130 oh it is 130 yeah Friday Fray easier okay okay all right what time 1215 I'll try to make that work we 12 I could be flexible you'll send out the I could be flexible if it's oh you can wait anytime after 12:15 I could be flexible if you need to do it later like 1231 what are we waiting what no never mind Friday the 13th at oh God 12:15 are we sure okay Zoom all right I'll do the 48 hour notice tomorrow good Lord all right so we're you're good right FR 12 thank you okay so now by councilwoman Williams yeah budget amendment vote can I keep this talking yeah um yeah as long got a copy of it so yeah and and you have the minutes right from tonight you should you can send that can you send that am all right are we ready Mr Bono you had a question or comment yeah I want follow up I looked up the rental Environmental Center uh the $687,000 was a typing error um the 2023 number was about 50,000 in budget uh and it went up to 150,000 I transpose two numbers I I found on his work paper Okay so you'll send a corrected version of this this is correct the 68 is correct 687 is is incorrect it was incorrectly typed on the introduced budget it was he flipped the lines total amount I get it so Reserve to pay debt service corre is $687 but we will be voting on a corrected version of this amended budget because this is incorrect you're voting on the two column correct right hand column oh yeah okay I get it I get so the 50 should be for the r to 150 and the reserve to pay debt service down 687 687 wow so went from 687 down to 175 the numbers on this amendment are correct right for the amended amount for the updated the two column the from column is correct also that was was any introduced budget even though it was wrong right but it was wrong so we fix it right it might have been the same as the introduced budget but another mistake I'm sure somebody will text me about so do you have enough Reserve to to for that debt service or yes you're okay then okay good all right um now we're going to I'm sorry no I'm good I'm ready to take the vote because we have a motion and then a second to enter into the to recess the meeting and enter into ABC so okay the vote councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Bara council president Rutherford yes okay so so ABC yes okay so the first one up is a place toop Place transfer an expansion of premises for Castle Rock Bar and Grill at 440 Main Street West Orange for outdoor seating um this has been he went through all the proper channels everything's been approved okay so I Outside Music so yeah I have comments presid whenever you want me to talk I don't no good night all good night good night sir thank you is there a question on this Castle Rock yes what's the question so no Castle Rock is you know they're they're doing you know they're doing well they you know they have great food and they've been trying to be good Community Partners um but it's not because of them I wish we went through the ordinances um because it is going to be outside seating which I fully support and know they'll do awesome job do we need to put a time limit on them Chief because they are open later and that's a conversation we need to have you want special condition I you could do it at this point yeah there's certain times that you can do it and I don't know um I thought it was only when you did the annuals or the this is for the announ side for asking for something special you could look conditions they're sitting outside uh in the front they're not using the back correct no they are using the back are they using the no I don't know I think that's I think he wanted to use high tops in the front for dinner like to eat no I thought it was back I he wanted it in the front he was fixing up because they have the expanded sidewalk there no I know I thought he here's his application he's got to have a diagram yeah yeah it's in the front the ti tops in the front sorry that's yeah yeah he he has expanded sidewalk I know where yeah so it is in the front sorry thought was the back so when would like so would he have it out there all night huh yeah just show they had it out there in Co and it was fine he plenty yeah they're not having wild parties there are they I mean we want people sitting out on the sidewalk yeah on Main Street okay get loud we're getting we're getting complaints from the neighbors neighbor I'm G to go to when on the the ordinance on first reading that we need to discuss can we limit the hours of outside sea well if they're there for if they're there for dinner because otherwise it goes to when they close at night two o'clock in the morning yeah you don't want people sitting there are they gonna have music and everything till two in the morning and are they having music they are now they are now out maybe not them but somebody else maybe not them and I don't think they will because I think this is more a dinner thing for them but we are having problems that we're going to talk about few minutes that have to be addressed because Rock amend this or vote against this or something well I want to support I want to support him but I do want to I didn't get a chance to to talk to him about it um you think if you support it tonight and then have a conversation with him you can't walk back this is our problem I hate for him to to pay the price for some of the craziness in the I a special now he wants to get outside so on until 11:00 or something we yeah okay so council president according out a second according to the zoning official no music's permitted no music outside no smoking no music what about the smoking you no smoking well it's a sidewalk so it's not going to be allowed to have smoking after we pass the ordinance all right so no no music that was the okay that's the issue perfect we're done sorry I I'll make a motion to approve them second all right okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G counc yeah notify him of the ordinance that says there's no Outside Music yes yes I'll call him tomorrow it's not is that the ordinance or is that some other requirement from Z well well Z got be in ordinance yeah and enforce not in ordinance Mak Mak we'll get on the phone 752 so the motion carried all right 752 resolution this a little confusing but resolution resending resolution number 744-2242 24 license term and resending in part ABC resolution 74624 REM removing the same license 2001 proof LLC as a leny approved for renewal for the 20242 license term for failure to submit a request for special ruling from the director of the state of New Jersey ABC so this this license is a uh it's either pocket or inactive and it requires that they get permission from the director of ABC to extend their license for another two-year term or whatever um one to twoyear term they fail to do so and so they these resolutions the one resolution has to be uh rescinded the other one has to be completely um they both have to be rescinded because of that um and they have to now um apply for their um extension from the division of ABC so that means that they had not renewed for either one of those time periods so that's relatively new I believe too right it is it is new and it's a little confusing so it's you know what they're trying to do is they're really trying to encourage all licenses that are in Pocket status to either sell your license or open a door okay um I guess because there's a lot that they have throughout the state of New Jersey so um yeah so now this person has to you know they have to apply for their extension which they failed to do the law is a law right right exactly motion to approve 75 second thank you okay councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman Michael councilwoman council president Renford yes right the motion carries now is there a motion to uh adjourn ABC and enter back into our regular okay thank you councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michel councilwoman council president retherford yes okay we are now in our public meeting thank you ordinances on second and final reading be back on Zoom um Mr you never oh usually do sorry usually not yeah are you you good you're going to be here the whole meeting okay well I was gonna recommend that we do first reading first so okay so ordinances on second and final reading 28652 24 and ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7- 32.2 restricted parking zones of revised General ordinances of West Orange handicap spaces five cross street and 54 lellan Avenue is there a motion to introduce on second and final second thank you councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Council Scarpa council president retherford yes okay this is the time for the public hearing we now open public hearing on 2865 d24 seeing no one in council chambers uh public comment is now closed councilwoman celino so this is uh thank you council president this is directed towards it towards Administration um so I'm I'm fine with this but I had another I won't mention the address this evening but I shared with the chief last week when I came across in a neighborhood um the neighbors there was a handy cap parking spot that the residents had moved four years ago and the people living there now are not you know they don't have are handicapped and they're parking in that spot and so so to to um try to solve that I was thinking um with my real estate hat on that maybe when um a home is sold and a new coo is given that they check to see if there's a handicap parking spot as part of the CEO process to see if you know because then of course if the person moves away that was in the house that spot should be removed unless there's a new person moving in is that possible so we don't have this is isue especially on some of these streets um that are very tight with the parking to begin with anything's possible we just have to figure out how to make it work really easy tie to the C like when you because when you issue a CO you're checking various things um on the premises anyway they just checked it to see if they have to check the ordinances that's the point you like whoever's issuing the C would need to go into our ordinances and determine if there was ever a handicap parking spot that's associated with that address so there might be an EAS in order to get rid of the the handicap you'd have to go to the council for the ordinance so we're gon to hold up somebody's co uh no but you could get rid of it I mean like have to get to you you have to yeah I know remove so Point itself somebody comes up for Co well that's a poor excuse so so so that doesn't say we can't do it yeah yeah yeah well we can't hold up to co I would not hold up to co but it's a flag that we're does one has nothing to do with the other the still issues the co still gets issue but you're able that's where you have the checkpoint because that's when you know the person's moving out of the home we still would have to update the ordinance to reflect whatever yeah the change is same thing with the certificate of inhabitants because sometimes it's given and you're a renter so either or it it you know I mean you're going to inspect the property you're going to see the handicap sign there so it's not shouldn't be we're gonna have to talk to Janice I guess and figure out how because this this well listen I I I know it's but if you live on the street and you see you know the person's not there anymore you seeing ISU and the people moving in think it's automatically theirs you have neighbors fighting with each other well the short term fix that if somebody's parked illegally near the sh the police will hand issue well you say it's automatically theirs they have to have a they still have to have a handicap I know but they're still letting this and they're not going to ticket it I gave you the address so we we need I don't know if it was looked at yet or not so we will a lot of things so how to capture it in some language make an update to the ordinance um so that there's a a proactive way of addressing it I don't know what that and may zoning offic can tell us as explained to you in the previous meetings we're working with municity and we're doing a lot of things we're in the production phase of it now um as K alluded Madam cler alluded before Mondays and Fridays we're meeting and updating our systems so um this may be something that we have to bring up at our next session with them because we're hoping we're anticipating being live by December with this program now so based on our current schedule so if that's something that could be added to help out we could we could see if could be added to the system I can't promise you it will but we can see because the the system is is working so that if somebody does apply for a dog permit they also know about you know the anything else they maybe apply for and they may they apply for handicap parking if you go be flagged there in the same syst we we could see if that we'll see if that could be incorporated into that yeah that's all I'm asking but thank you car will bring it up at the next minut okay 2866 you're welcome councilwoman 2866 Madam clerk oh no 2865 is there a motion to approve second thank you is there second thank you councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman SP council president R yes okay 2866 24 and ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-1 parking time limited on certain streets During certain hours and 7-1 14.3 parking time limited on certain streets During certain hours of certain days of the revised General ordinances is there a motion to introduce on second fin reading okay councilwoman celino councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa council president Rutherford yes now we will have public comment uh from those that are in person only seeing none public comment is now closed okay any questions no is there a motion to approve on second and final okay thank you um councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michel councilwoman Scarpa council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries 2867-20 an ordinance creating a reclassification and salary schedule of certain Township of West Orange employees setting forth their titles classification and salary ranges and adopting a salary guide and establishing the employee status as a Township employee and under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of personnel position of Chief Financial officer is there a motion to introduce some second and final second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Council Scarpa council president rer yes public hearing public hearing is now open for 2867-20 seeing none public comment is now closed okay is there um so moved thank you second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael yes councilwoman sarpa council president rer yes motion carries um 2868 24 Bond ordinance providing for Road sidewalk and Sewer improvements buying in the township of West Orange appropriating $2 million therefore and authorizing the issuance of $1,940 bonds or notes of the township to finance the part of the cost thereof is there a motion to introduce on second and final so move okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa no I didn't get the supplemental Deb statement okay uh I want to make sure that I get that you want one online I'm gonna make it and I and I want the public to know each time we issue debt what our debt is our net debt I think it's important given the amount of debt that we have that each time we Bond we get the supplemental Deb and the public knows what we're doing understood yeah um okay that's fine and council president retherford yes okay public hearing uh public comment is now open for 2868 d24 for those in person only seeing none public comment is now closed Madam clerk I offer motion to approve 2868 second thank you councilwoman C no yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman stara no council president rer yes okay the motion carries 2869 d24 an ordinance amending chapter 18 of the revised General ordinances of the township West Orange and establishing a section governing the rates for extra Duty assignments for firefighters in the township West Orange fees for services is there a motion to introduce on second and final second councilwoman cast yes Council gber Michel council did you say no sorry yes yes council president rord yes okay public hearing public comment is now open for 2869 for those in person only seeing none public comment is now closed offer a motion to approve 2869 okay is there a second thank you councilwoman castelino councilwoman Deborah Michael councilwoman Scara Council president rord yes the motion carries uh ordinances on first reading 28724 ordinance amending chapter 25 section 29 of the Township Code related to storm water management I'd like to make a motion to table that I had a resident call me she said she wanted to do more in-depth analysis and wasn't able to even pull it off the website and I think it does require more in-depth analysis so I'd like to table it is there okay that's only question yeah it's on first reading you could it's on first reading so you have a few weeks before it's going to go up on second yeah is there a is there a delay with this is it so this is it okay to delay it is there a rush have we'd have to ask Z I don't know exactly what this is to this is part of let me say this before actually let me let me reiterate that chapter 25 has to go before the planning board before it comes back to the council so it's there's going to be more time you know I'm sure the planning board is not going to get this on their agenda in October if we can I'd like to table it well see because if if you table it then it's not going to go to the planning board would get pass tonight it goes to the planning board the resident has plenty of time to do what they need to do all of you guys as well so yeah okay so is there a motion talked about how we want to get storm management going yeah and there will be time on after this correct yeah this part that mapping I was discussing earlier in the evening for this project she's trying to get done offer a motion to approve to introduce rather 2870 okay oh okay uh councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion [Music] carries 27 oh wow I put the wrong number oh no I didn't 287124 an ordinance amending chapter 4 sections 33.1 and 33.2 the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange establishing a section governing the consumption of cannabis in public and supplementing chapter 4 to add a new section 41 prohibiting alcohol consumption in public I make motions to introduce okay thank you thank you um councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michel councilwoman council president ruberg yes okay the motion carries Madam cler we return oh I like discussion council president okay so um working with the chief um we've had some various issues in some of our parking lots in the township um one being right behind us here Offa Willer street with um people out uh and about Laing in the middle of the night and what were they barbecuing drinking and it's it's just been Willer Street has been suffering for a long time um quickly parking lot over in the lady Lord section um again various and various issues that are deeply affecting the quality of life for residents in that neighborhood which is also my neighborhood um you know people don't even want to walk their dogs they quickly parking lot in the evening because of people loing and drinking and smoking cannabis and urinating in the parking lot so it's it's been quite the activity so um I hope um this passes I'm glad it easily passed on first reading I hope this passes on second reading so our police officers uh have the ability to uh move folks along that shouldn't be doing what they're doing and uh Chief I'll let you know if you could just touch base a little bit I've got many concerns as well so the uh public consumption of alcohol forget about cannabis for a moment was stricken I believe accidentally I wasn't part of that it goes back some time and I've I've been for years trying to get Mayors councils to to put this back on so finally we're here um we have we have no ability to enforce public consumption of alcohol uh years ago the atra alcohol treatment Rehabilitation Act the at laws went into effect they said that any ordinances on your books that um made like public intoxication punishable offense you know you couldn't do that it's it's a uh it's a medical condition take somebody to a rehab you can't take them to a jail cell so I think we threw the baby out with the bath water on that one by accident and our our whole been stricted so we're trying to bring that back and you know now today with cannabis being legalized there's a big push to not have people smoking cannabis in our parking lots and on our sidewalks um legal department says we can regulate that as well so we're looking to pass that ordinance and be able to enforce it thank you very much here for it so yeah thank you colleagues perfect Okay resolution to Regio Construction in an amount not to exceed $58,800 could be in the resolution she puts it which number is is the grant but the says the award of the contract is a million5 but the brand is 580 yeah iy developers is that one okay so yeah 580 is is the Grant I believe that the director before this is this is all funded by New Jersey she she Grant the amount of 58870 for the project uh funds are for the pro appropriate in the 2024 capital budget as part of the bond ordinance shec a number schedule for second so yeah that's part of the bond ordinance that's part of what we approved D on uh well you didn't improve so those are Road improvements right yeah I a lot of other things that yeah no no I get it but that's what it's for it was for Carlson Road Colin drive and wood I was why we had have so much and then I looked at all the other I saw yeah but if you go to the second page you'll see that the the whole bid is a million 516 45925 right so we get we got 58870 in Grant money from the do that we're spending probably 900,000 but yeah the I I believe that the the director told me that actually it should have been the reverse I can see just make sure correct yeah but I think there another award that we did that's part of this yes P that 26 she pull 263 both of them yeah but we both we just approve both of them now or no just we're working on 261 oh okay I thought we okay I thought we're done okay we had P both resolutions so that's where the rest of the money is for that Bond over here yeah it's not numbers don't add up to 1.5 no no it doesn't have to because 500 of the one is grant money so you got to take that out so if you add up so you got a million five on this as the award right you take out 580 it's a million right is I that on yeah she said she's well if you just do a quick 810 and 580 is 1.39 let's just say even with the overage one 391 1392 the award is 1.5 so one it doesn't say that in these it doesn't say to me extra money there well and it doesn't say that these two are combined maybe they are but even when you combine them two projects you would be combining the grant money in one yeah there could be other things in the actual bid these two well no all right so let's just start from 261 she the director text her she's going to try and give it up all right let's here director can you explain 261 and 263 to us please council president council members so 261 is the contract for the njdot minicipal a for the year 2023 the township received a grant for $58,800 funds will be provided to the township after the a war and after we have the uh the preconstruction meeting with a contractor so the award amount will be one and a half million dollar in change yeah 1935 so the total amount is 1.5 million of that we're getting 580,000 in grant money yes which means the balance is paid for by the municipality yes we have amount because we don't money until like I would say 75% before we start the construction and then the other 25% once the project is completed inspected and approved by NJ do so is the total amount of grant money we're receiving for this 261 580,000 it's $580,000 yes right and so then the rest of that balance is paid by whom the municipality sor other questions on the njdot 261 d24 resolution yeah the question is the the balance is paid by the township yes so is that in the 20123 capital budget was that already budgeted or is this new money that is in between the last year's capital budget and next year's this is money are to be adopted on the bond ordinance which is 2868 d24 yes right so so we just and we I I so the money in 2868 is that last year's capital budget next year's capital budget or not in a capital budget at all it is not in the capital it was in my capital budget but nothing has been we don't have a 2024 capital budget yet so it's basically this 2024 capital budget so so this is money and and this is why I want to know this is money that we are going to approve that would normally be in the capital budget it won't be in the capital budget based on what I'm hearing you say tonight yes the reason why we need to adopt this or approve this is because I only have until I would say sometime in October to submit this to do because do basically a give the municipality the award within two years you need to have a designed bided and awarded so we're basically at our limit there's only like one more meeting left so that we don't lose the grant so and I understand that no one wants to lose almost $600,000 worth of Grants what I what what is troubling me that the these things get opusc so that neither the council nor the public knows the full extent of what our tax dollars are doing in the capital budget we've had we've had other um projects that were done and they weren't properly recorded in the capital budget we we approved the budget it's $10 million for argument sake and then we've already done $2 million or $4 million worth the road work which would mean the capital budget is really 12 million or 14 million whatever the case is Whatever Gets presented this year this money should be in that capital budget it won't be so now we're going to have to remember that there's another $800,000 that we've spent or $900,000 that we've spent so if the capital budget comes in at 10 million it's really 11 million do you understand my dilemma I understand your dilemma by the time we do the capital budget hearing for the year 2024 what I could do I could provide you with a list which is the same list that I have provided to the CFO and in there I have uh a lot of the projects in numerical order of how important they are in this one as well as the cdbg which is the other resolution that you asked me about are the two top priorities because both grants need are basically at that point where like we need to award all right and then and then in 263 that is completely covered by the grant which one the uh cdb Valley Road from Kinsley Street Avenue for 810 yep so that one is not 100% covered by the grand the grant is approximately $200,000 all right so okay so when we get to the capital budget director what I will need is a list of all of the projects that have already been done that money from the capital budget is already allocated toward so that we have a full account ing of capital budget all righty so what I could do I could put these two projects uh along with the bond ordinance for the $2 million which was allocated for this too all right I think one other Road Project earlier this year um I could be wrong but I thought there was one we did over the summer uh that I don't think was in our last capital budget so just make sure that when we get to the capital budget which should be soon everything is in there that either has already been done or that you're requesting to be done okay thank you very much uh councilwoman celino has a question for you so when will the capital budget be presented to us and I assume it's gonna We would receive all the pictures and the list of the projects that were dis you know councilman's discussing here where we get that whole projection we go over all the projects when will that be presented to us we have I I have a pretty good working list of a capital budget now but um definitely want John tend at we bring it to you when do we I mean we've done it as late as December which I hope that doesn't happen but how soon can we I'd say within a month probably yeah okay all right thank you any any other questions for director carbal thank you director thank you director thank you we're back at 261 entertaining and any motion yeah we have the motion in the second so I just have to call for the vote councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scara council president wford yes okay the motion carries 263-2400 CD CBG Road rehabilitation of Valley Road from Kingsley Street to Northfield Avenue in the base bid in an amount not to exceed without authorization $81,400 second councilwoman celino yes councilwoman thank you councilwoman scari council president retherford yes motion carries did we handle everything we did that's it job anything in pending matters new business seeing none the chair will entertain a motion close the meeting I'm sorry Mr Fagan I'm sorry council president for the uh Interruption I just have a question concerning the meeting on Friday I sent Madame clerk the link uh and that's all ready to go and it says 215 I left one off but it's correctly scheduled for 12:15 I just wanted to point that out right is there public comment going to be uh Madam clerk do we have to have public comment I believe so okay so public comment will then uh on this matter only on this matter only and only this time by Zoom right okay I just wanted to make that clear when I post it on social media and the website thank you for the clarification thank you very much sir okay um yep right oh well that's a problem though I know but it's the r we don't have otherwise we have to come into person yeah and some of us are going to have no it's all take five minutes I me can't do as a workshop we just don't vote anytime you have a public meeting I mean but we do have to vote because we have a calendar to keep for our next meeting if we don't vote on it now and especially something as important as a budget you to make sure if you keep it to just no I don't mind the public comment just say Zoom yeah and to get back make it clear that we're going to put a tight leash on if BS us we are going to close the meeting we will we will have we will close public comments as it was opened at some point right even if everybody didn't get a chance to speak if anybody talks off the budget then you can shut them down them yeah put the instructions right on the correct okay all in favor just to be clear on public comment on Zoom uh going back to the unfortunate incident in February there is not a time delay on that uh if if we do get uh bombed for any reason it's going to be two three seconds before I could shut it down uh so I just want you to be aware of that understood and Mr Fagan you and I will have a conversation before that and how you know we'll be very clear about how quickly to go and uh should someone because we error on the side of caution be inappropriately cut off then we can decide whether or not to ring them back if we were wrong but we're going to have a very tight leash and if folks try to zoom bombb us or go too far off the Record or too far off the path we're going to shut it down okay I just want to do my due diligence I appreciate you brother thank you sir yeah it's not thank you night good night everybody wait we're not off the zoom yet