Good evening, West Orange. I should say good afternoon and welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for Tuesday, May 11th, 2026. Uh just as a quick reminder, tomorrow there is a council meeting right here in council chambers. That's tomorrow, May
12th, at 6:30 p.m. And future uh West Orange Township Municipal Budget meetings are scheduled for May 18th and May 20th. And this information is posted on our website. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to our council
president. Great. Thank you. Welcome everyone who is here and all of our uh residents on Zoom. I am thrilled to welcome some uh residents today that I haven't seen before and uh I hope they will um listen carefully and give us
their feedback. Uh Madam Clerk, >> yes. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the township of West
Orange website on April 16th, 2026. Councilman Koviaak, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Council President Scarpa, >> present. >> Is Councilwoman uh Castelino online?
>> You coming in? hear back after that. >> I believe Councilwoman Castle said she'd be here around 4:30. >> Be running a little bit late. >> She's now >> Thank you. Okay, great. Would uh will everyone please rise for the pledge of >> allegiance
to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for it stands nationy for all >> the council is now in their budget meeting. >> Okay, great. Is there anyone here who would like to make co public comment
tonight? Okay, Mr. Mr. Gibbons. >> Council President, if I may, um before we begin public comment, we do have uh an amendment to the agenda today. Do you want to mention or you want me to?
>> Okay. Um so the first presentation by the Department of Recreation is not happening today. Uh the agenda was amended this morning and posted online. As soon as we found out um that we were unable to have the department of recreation today, uh we will move the
department to a later date and properly advertise uh you know when we determine that date. Um so we are going to begin today with the West Orange Health Department, Senior Services, Transportation, and then you know the other departments will follow
afterwards. So again for everyone at home and here the department of recreation is being moved to a different date and we're going to start with health department. >> Hey great Mr. Gibbons. >> Hi uh Kenneth Gibbons CPA CGMA MSD
auditor seven rigs place. Okay. Uh tonight I'm speaking as a resident reviewing the proposed 2026 municipal budget in support of our community before amendments. the proposed municipal tax rate increased
approaches 7%. Our independent review is focusing on identifying the major drivers behind these increases and where additional scrutiny, transparency and potential saving opportunities may
uh exist. Uh first one is snow removal. Our review indicates snow removal is the largest driver in the budget, accounting for nearly 38% of the gross increase. Severe snowstorms contributed
significantly to these costs, but extraordinary weather um still requires financial scrutiny and oversight. Number two, public safety um salaries combined police and fire
salaries uh approximately a total of a 27% increase of the municipal budget. These costs materially affect long-term financial stability. Number three, library tax. Our review indicates the
library tax levy is increased approximately 18%. residents deserve transparency regarding the drivers behind these increases in addition to the assessments that are
driving it. Um, and we and West Orange deserves to know if the pilot programs or the decrease in the ratable ratables have also contributed to this. Fourth, general liability insurance. Our
review intra um indicates general liability insurance is increasing approximately 28%. We recognize the insurance um markets are playing a driver in this
but we still should provide scrutiny around this and look into this further. The hydrant service, the fire hydrant service, our review indicates that the fire hydrants are increasing approximately 31%.
These costs are largely outside direct municipal control. Uh however, that does not eliminate the need to for taxpayers advocacy and long-term financial planning. DPW salaries. DPW salaries
were originally proposed to increase approximately 10.5%. Council already demonstrated that scrutiny produces results by voting to remove the recent DPW director position
not filled yet. Electricity, our review indicates um cost are increasing approximately 30%. Um utility cost make mitigation should be addressed. Uh litigation expenses are
review indicates litigation expenses are increasingly um 45% residents deserve a clear explanation of what litigation exposures are driving these increases. Have alternative legal billing
structures been addressed such as a flat rate versus hourly rates retainers with a firm? Nine, town council other expenses. Our review indicates town council other expenses are increasing
approximately 38%. I raised this issue not because of the u materially material amount of this increase. Um, every department is expected to justify spending increases. The government body responsible for
financial oversight should be do the same as every other department. 457 deferred compensation plan. Our review indicates these expenses are increasing approximately um 19.4%.
Uh discretionary increase may exist. They should uh be uh carefully evaluated if they do. Um employee group health insurance employee group health insurance remains to be flat. Um we
should look into what makes up that number. This is not necessarily u uh a uh something that we should not warrant more scrutiny. Uh, so it was just a little
>> Your time is up. >> All right. We'll be providing the CFO a detailed request list and we'll go from there. Thank you for your time. >> Okay. Thank you. And I really appreciate your um letting us helping us realize that, you know, we're not going to cut
our budget 7% with $1,000 here and there. It's the major drivers of the budget that we need to be paying attention to. And tonight, what I'm planning on doing is addressing something that I've been concerned about since I my first year on the council,
and I know Councilman Koviac has too, the Jitney. I'm going to put a working group together or a committee with SBA and myself, and I'd like to invite Councilman Koviac to join that committee
to look at how we can make the Jity a bit more efficient. You know, the first year I was president, I'm sorry, we're in the middle of public comment. So, that should really wait for when you are ready to answer public comment. >> I just want to let them know that the it's a main driver and it relates to what Mr. Gibbons has said.
>> Well, right, but you can answer that after everyone has an opportunity to speak because someone else may speak to your turn. >> Did someone else have um want to Yeah, come on up. Justin, I'll get you in. >> Evie Bear, 14 Dogwood Drive. Speaking of
the Jity, that's what I plan to speak about. >> So, um, the Jitney provides an important service to the township residents and perhaps some non-residents as well. Um, tonight we're going to review the health department budget, which includes Jity drivers at roughly $463,000.
The personnel expense is just the tip of the iceberg. The SEABB is working to tease out the entire cost of the Jity which includes the cost of buses, maintenance, insurance, and fuel. We are also canvasing the state to see how
other municipalities handle their microtransit services. Stay tuned. But for now, it's interesting to note that several municipalities outsource a similar service so as not to have to manage the everyday operations and perhaps avoid any risk that there might
be from operating a transportation system. Some municipalities are charging wrership fees to offset the cost of operations as the SBA recommended to the council last year. Montlair is considering reintroducing a local jity
service and Glenn Ridge, I think particularly interesting, stopped selling Jity tickets while they assess their alternatives. >> Thank you so much. In fact, I had actually talked to Mr. Datiniac about getting us all of that information
today. So hopefully we'll have it. Um, yes, Justin. Uh, good afternoon, Justin Goldsman, Moran Road. Um, on the taxes, tax collector, tax assessor. Just curious on a few things. on page 70. Just wondering
what the cost uh savings would be with the opportunity to switch to an online default tax collection system with mailing as um an an optional request. I believe that would save thousands of dollars on printing and mailings. Um on
page 88, the 2025 budget had $80,000 allocated for appraisals, but only 6,000 were spent. The 2026 budget requests $50,000, which is approximately 60% of the previous year's asks, but we only used 7% of that allocated budget. Just
wondering if there's an explanation there. On page 175 regarding West Orange Elite Basketball, I'm not very familiar with this program, so I'm not commenting on the program in and of itself. It could be an absolutely wonderful program, but I do notice that we give them $9,500.
They have tournaments and clinics that they charge money for. So, I'm just asking who monitors the number of participants and registration fees. Where do those fees go? Do we see a return once something is broken even upon? Really just asking for what the ROI on investment is since we're giving an entity money that is then charging
subsequent fees. So, just trying to figure out where those monies flow. Um, in 2025, we spent $656 on advertising for parks and playgrounds. Yet, this budget asks for $10,000. Just curious if anyone can
speak to the need for a 15 times increase on park advertisements um under health and maybe we'll get to this. I'm not trying to scare anybody. I know that haunt virus is in the news. Just considering what budgetary reflections would look like should this
escalate in any way. Um if we need to set aside funding now. Um the Essex Regional Health Commission was an extra $10,000 more than projected last year. Curious as to why that's the same line item. Um ecigarette enforcement line
item. Just um wondering if that budgetary line is funded on the tax from ecigarettes. It might make sense to enforce our own cigarette enforcement with the funding from that tax or does that revenue just go into a general
fund? Um on line 30 in health, I'm sorry, on line item 30 for printing in health. Last year, $958 was spent. This year, 1,500 is requested in the budget. This point in the year, we have spent $125. That's a quarter mark, which would
suggest we would only be spending 500. So, is the 1500 really necessary? Um, on senior services, um, we've had these conversations over the years that not all commissions in town receive the same fundings. So, I'm just wondering, the Older Adults
Advisory Board does not get funding while commissions like the HRC and other organizations do. Um, I'm just curious if the investment in the Older Adults Advisory Board in terms of a payment for their commission work since they do such an incredible job might be able to
reduce cost savings somewhere else since they know their programming's best. They know what gets people in the room. They know what services are actually needed. So, I'm just wondering if an investment in there could actually be not only more beneficial towards the community, but also saving because they know how to
best spend their money. Um, they're an incredible organization. Just curious if that's been considered, right? If a $5,000 investment saves us $30,000 somewhere else, is that perhaps worth it? Plus, they get the same treatment that other commissions do. Um,
we've talked about the Jity. Um, big on microtransit. A lot of towns do public private partnerships with VIA. saves you $2 per ride. Um, and then I don't know if planning board was technically under the previous presentation for planning department, so I'm just going to speak
to it here. Um, there's a line item in there for $4,000 for court reporting fees. Now that hopefully the West Essex Highlands is done, given that that was the bulk of the planning board meetings last year, I wonder if that allocation
is the same amount needed this year considering there were 30 meetings about that hearing if there can be savings found somewhere else since that project is now behind us. Um, and then on page 168 real quick, there's a $100 allocation for SR club contracts. Last
year in 2025, none was apparently spent. this year is a thousand dollar request. I'm just wondering if that's a $900 delta or if that is a typo. That should have been 100 instead of a thousand. Um, so thank you. Appreciate the commentary and the opportunity to be here. These are very important and I thank you all
for putting them on and letting the public engage with you. Thank you. >> Thank you. And I very much appreciate your comments about the older adults advisory board because as you know that's my pet project and I am the liaison to that board. We get no funding at all and we have done incredible work
with zero dollars. We are currently looking for grants and private funding. Yes. >> I'm sorry. Point border. Can we all respond or are you responding to public comment? Have you closed public comment? >> I haven't closed it and we'll give a chance to have an opportunity to
respond. >> Miss Bennett. >> No, we can respond. >> We'll at the appropriate time, but it's not the time yet. and you're responding after every com after every comment. So, >> let's give Miss Bennett a chance to talk. >> I am asking for a point.
>> You will you will get a chance when she's finished. Well, I'll let everyone come. >> Thank you, >> Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. Thank you, Pres, Council President, and welcome to additional uh community members. It's great to see you in the
audience. Um, I just wanted to encourage everyone here to consider um opportunities to um fee share with the schools. Anytime you identify a budget line item that might be of benefit to consider um cost sharing, I would
encourage you to do so. As I'm sure everyone is well aware, um the the uh district is in uh pretty dire circumstances and considering pretty dire um um
modifications to their budget and their way of um offering education to our students. And I think wherever possible, um, leadership in that regard, whether it be from the administration or from the council, um, wherever we can show
the community that we're looking for opportunities to cost save, I think would be very important. That's number one. Uh, number two, and it's pretty interesting that I'm going to be here defending this, knowing a little something about um, West Orange Township's basketball. I will share with
you that West Orange Elite is a program for young um, young athletes. I think it's run by uh, Coach Cowins, Coach Deont Cowins, and uh, I think it also enjoys um, some of the coaches from the high school basketball program. I will
tell you that it's multiple levels of um young athletes. They do a fantastic job with them and I would hope that you maintain continue to maintain their um funding. Um as I'm sure that they've only asked for what they need. Um I don't disagree that
an accounting makes sense, but just knowing a little something about that program, I think it's very important to the young youth. And um uh there was one other item I'm drawing a blank on. I'll I'll push
the comments over to Edie so that when hopefully they come up she can address them. I don't >> you think of it much. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Does anyone else want to respond public comment? Okay, seeing none, we'll close public comment. And Councilwoman Williams, go
ahead. >> Second the motion if that's what you're making to close public comment. >> Okay. All in favor? Any opposed? Public comment is closed. >> I don't have a response. However, the process is that once we have closed
public comment, the day is response. So, those back and forth exchanges are just adding more time to our session tonight and we should just follow the guidelines and the rules as are stated in Robert's rules of order um and our agenda. Thank you. >> So, do you have anything?
>> I will comment as we're going through the budget. Councilwoman Ruden, did you have a response to public comment? >> Um, no. I a lot of good ideas from from Ken and um and Justin and I I agree any
any kind of cost sharing with the schools. I just want to speak to um Ken in terms of I think he left. >> Okay. >> Okay. In in in terms of the snow, I mean, we were really, I would say, caught with our pants down on that one.
Um, we have a vendor that we're paying $575 an hour per truck and I have requested that we go out to bid as soon as possible and find other bit other vendors so that we're prepared in case we get it hit again um this fall or or
in the winter. Um, I think I think that's about it. I am actually a little bit surprised at his comment that the town council went up 32%. And I I can't even imagine where where that is. Um other than in terms of digitizing the
code. Um our salaries, as the public should know, are about 125. So we're certainly not a driver in that in that area. Um but I'll take a look at that. But that seems very insignificant in terms of the entire um budget.
And um I I appreciate Justin your your comment in terms of mailing options for taxes. I think we should talk about that tonight. Um I know that things will be changing a bit uh with our moving on to a different type of accounting system
this year and whereas the municipality I now understand has been absorbing the fees for online banking if you if you pay by check for your taxes the township has been absorbing that. They no longer will. That's a good move. Um and it's
true most of us are getting things online. So why are we doing all of this mailing which is expensive? I don't know if that's led if that's required statutoily or um or if we can at this point get rid of it. But we also do have
to be aware that there are quite a few people out there that don't use um computers and we have to be able to identify who they are. Thank you. >> Okay, Councilman Koviac, did you have anything? >> Yes. Thank you, Council President. Just very briefly, just to clarify for anyone
who's not familiar with the Jity system, no one who uses the Jity is charged for the service and no one who rides the Jity is confirmed about whether they are a
township uh resident or not. And I've been saying for over a decade that we need to uh take a look at this and uh seek to reduce the subsidy uh that we are now giving. It's likely to be uh over a
million dollars a year. Uh so I'm glad to see that there is finally some uh momentum uh to get this done. So I'm pleased to help in any way I can uh determine how we should move forward. Thank you, Council President.
>> Okay. Very good. So Mr. Datiniac or Mr. >> Thank you, Council President. Um so we are going to begin tonight today with the uh West Orange Health Department, Senior Services and Transportation. Um so I'm going to guide those at home and
those here um to our website. So, this is the Township of West Orange website. Beautiful New York City skyline over here. Right. Right. Is that it? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there's a couple different
ways you can get to our budget center. And I'm going to take you through two very quickly. Um, the way I've been doing it is I go up to departments and I'm a little bit partial to the finance department. I click here and then I go to the budget from here. Um, I think
what's even easier if if you're at home and you're on the front page, you can go to our our scroll or news and update scroll. We have a section here for township municipal budget meetings. I can click
here. I can get the Zoom link for today. I can go to the meeting agendas um for the today and we have the 20th also posted right 18th and 20th posted and I can also go to the budget directly
from this link. Um so different ways we can get to the budget document. Um but we're going to start as we have these last few meetings by clicking on the proposed budget. This is what was introduced.
And we're going to go to page. It's 148. If you have the budget, uh, is this the big budget is 148? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. The big budget is 148. And if you have the the budget off the website, it
is Oh, it is also 148. Sorry. Just bear with me. I get down to the page. Okay, we're going to start with page 148. Let me go into presentation mode. And before we begin, uh we have director Michael Fonino, um director of the
health department here to answer your questions. Um a little bit later, we also have uh Miss Van Djk um from the retired citizens uh department. Um she's going to be here to speak specifically to retired citizens. Um Director Fonino, is there anything you want to say before
we begin? >> Welcome. >> Thank you, John. Good afternoon, council president, council members. I just want to thank you for the opportunity to uh be here today to present our uh 2026 health welfare department budget and to answer any questions that you might
have. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Um also very quickly, um Councilman Koviaak, I do have your questions in front. We will address them as we go through the departments. I apologize. I wasn't able to get to them today with sort of prepping for today, but I have
them in front of me. Um, so they are not going to go unanswered and and many of them would have been discussed anyways. >> Tomiac, did you want to start or since you had a lot of questions? >> That's really I defer to Mr. Fonzu and Mr. Jak. So, >> whatever they want to do.
>> Okay. So, um um I welcome Councilman Castelino to the meeting. Um Councilman, we're going to start on page 148. It's the uh health department. >> I was listening. >> Okay. Okay. So, you that we're not going to do recreation today. So, we're starting with with health department.
Um, so we have, pardon me, um, the positions listed in the health department. Um, the ask this year is for $779,000. Uh, there's an increase in base salary of $52,746.
Uh, increase in the longevity um of $286 and an increase in overtime of $3,400. Um the the base salary increase uh is related to um a full is it a full year
for the department head? Uh deputy department head. Yeah. >> Um so there's a full year um for keyboard and clerk one and a full year for uh the deputy department head and a full year of the RHS public health. Um
so that's what's driving the base salary. Do you want to talk about your workforce or >> um Yeah, I mean basically this is this is the uh general health um division. This is pretty much the core of the health department. Um
I I know that there there's probably going to be questions about the overtime. Um the reason for the increase the overtime is we have a tremendous amount of of temporary events going on in town. Um, that's a lot of that's the bulk of this and that's that's only
going to increase. We got FIFA coming. There's going to be things popping up everywhere that we're going to have to send inspectors to to make sure that, you know, they're they're doing things safely. Um, we're we're at least once a week uh on calls with the state department of health and
planning for this these these events that are going to be happening. Um, so we're anticipating that there's going to be uh even more overtime, you know, this year. And I I will add that overtime that's generated by if you see the the
union we have what we call the ASME AFS CME when we have events on a weekend for example uh let's say a food truck festival and we require a food inspector to go out uh the contract for the apps me dictates that that we call it call
back right >> uh call back overtime is a minimum of four hours. So if you're out there for 30 minutes doing an inspection, we are required to pay 4 hours because that's what's been agreed to in the collective bargaining agreement. So um the hours
are not necessarily the hours of service may not necessarily match the amount paid. It is because of that that that call back um overtime provision for the ASME contract. >> Oh, too. >> Yeah. Okay. Jeez. Councilwoman,
>> go ahead. >> Just real quick, what what FIFA events are you anticipating? >> So, so there's this is statewide. There's, you know, people are having these watch parties and things like that.
>> Um, you know, so we we have to really monitor what's going on. Um, you know, we're we're we really have to prioritize based on, >> okay, >> you know, where these events are going to be happening. If they're going to be happening in licensed establishments,
that's the best case scenario, but we really have to keep an eye on what goes on outside of that. Um, that, you know, people aren't coming in and trying to do things that they're not >> on their own. Yeah. Like popup. >> I thought Okay. Pop. Okay. I thought you meant us as a township.
>> No, no, no. Yeah, >> this is a statewide thing. Um, you know, >> Yes. >> Good. Good. >> So, you know, we may or may not have them happening here in West Orange. >> Yeah. We're doing on street fair. There'll be the fan uh fest and uh
downtown Thursday night, but other than that, we just anticipate our usual things in the bars factored in here. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Good. I didn't know if there was something I wasn't aware of. That's all. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Did you have anything else >> uh for that? Not I may jump in later. Councilwoman Williams.
>> Thank you, Director Fonino. So, you mentioned popup parties, but pop-up parties are not allowed and permitted in our township. So, how are we worried about pop-up parties when they're not permitted a permitted use? >> Understood. I'm I'm just saying that like if if we get called out on
something like that, >> that's going to be that's going to generate overtime. So, you know, we we've been involved with some of that enforcement in the past and I'm not saying it's going to happen, but >> So, what enforcement in the past? I mean, >> you know, people
>> when we have had pop-up parties in the past, I I'm not aware that the health department has done anything. >> Yeah, we we were involved in a couple cases where a a pool was being used as a commercial pool and um there may or may
not have been food being sold. What year was that? >> Um, I think it was two years ago or Yeah. >> So, and last year did we have any issues with pop? >> Sorry. >> Thank you. >> Um, did we have any pop-up party?
>> Not that we had to respond to, but that we were we were keeping an eye on. Yes. So, is it possible that we could do something instead of funding that need by just putting out information on our website perhaps from the health director, health department saying that
pop-up parties, just reminding our residents that they're not permitted here in our township and that would perhaps put everybody on notice that you can't just throw um which is, you know, I'm not necessarily in agreement with,
but if I wanted to do a um not cost but have a watch party in my backyard. What is the rules for that? >> Well, that's a bad I mean that's a private event. You know, you're what you do on your own property is as long as
you're not charging to have people come there and watch the event. I mean, you could have a a party and we have nothing to do with that. >> Okay. Just concerned that we don't necessarily have an issue and we don't need to fund for an issue that we really don't have.
when when I said I this overtime request is not um specific to FIFA. This this is this is really just to handle the events that we do on a normal um schedule. >> Okay. >> You know, we we get a lot of temporary
events in the summer and the fall. Um not not a huge amount in the winter obviously the parade we we get. But um I was just making a point that you know there there may be some other things that we need to address. >> Okay, good. >> Thank you.
>> So we'll go back to Councilman Kakovak. We were Oh, Jless. Did you have something? >> Yeah. I just like can you please list the events that that are still going to be happening this year that you will be monitoring that may incur? >> So So Councilwoman, I don't always know
ahead of time. I mean, I know we have the street fair coming up. I know we have downtown Thursdays. The the people who have put applications in, I could tell you, but I can't predict who's going to, you know, pull a temporary food um permit at any given time. Um,
but we have the Fourth of July food truck festival. Um, >> so there these are not just township events. These are >> priv private individuals that may request a temporary food. question. >> These would only be events open to the
public. >> So, um, downtown Thursdays, I was I went to it this this past Thursday. Are are your inspectors there every single week? >> We tried to get if we have somebody available, they're supposed to be there. Yes. >> And they're there for like how long?
They they inspect every single truck. >> Yes. >> Okay. And Fourth of July, I assume the same. And so I just want to get a um a better sense of what else this is because as Mr. Dutiniac said, every time we send out your crew on an evening or a
weekend, we incur 4hour minimum. >> Well, if it's a continuation of the day, it's not it's it's just straight time. >> Okay. >> If it's if it's a weekend, yes, you get a 4-hour minimum. >> Okay. So, is there some way that you can um at least for the downtown Thursdays,
is that can you make that a continuation? is a continuation. Yeah, because it happens in the early evening, right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Um, so obviously Fourth of July, I just wanted to get a sense of what other events happen.
>> The Fourth of July is a big one. The street fair is a big one. Um, we had the parade, the St. Patrick's Day parade. >> That's over. >> Yeah, I know. I'm just I'm trying to think. >> But we don't have any food vendors on on St. Patrick's. >> There's pretzel vendors. Yeah. >> And you had people there?
>> Yep. Yeah, because we we only allow the pretzel vendors. And so, you know, the other part of of licensing them and checking them is to make sure that people don't show up with other food, which has happened in the past. People show up with hot dogs, people show up with,
>> you know, shish kebabs. So, >> so they were there for an hour and a half on at the St. Patrick's Day parade, but we paid for four hours >> Yes. >> for them. Yeah. >> So, I just I'm just really asking you to be really conscious of when you're other than an emergency when you're sending
them out to try and and take into account that how much we're paying even if they're only there for an hour. >> Councilwoman, I can assure you that I follow the, you know, the policy. If if they're going to an event after 4:30 and
they they don't leave work, they're getting paid just, you know, regular over >> time. >> They're not getting a 4h hour minimum. If if I'm calling them in on a Saturday or a Sunday, they're getting a 4 hour call back because that's what's in their contract.
>> Are you finished, Councilman Ruben? >> Yeah. I just want I just want to check on that. Oh, so for Saturday, they're getting the 4hour, >> right? >> Okay, got it. Okay, thank you. >> Council Kelina, >> so I just quick question. So because the food trucks get charged a fee for the
inspection. So is that that hourly rate included in that fee that you charge for that? >> The fee it certainly doesn't pay for the you know the entire cost but it certainly helps offset the cost of the inspe you know of paying the overtime. Sure.
>> Go back to our fee. Our fees are they high enough to cover what we need to cover? >> I think they are. I mean, we we increased them a couple years ago and I think they're they're better than they were. I mean, but they it's either even still it doesn't cover the entire it's
not like they're paying for the inspection. >> Maybe they should. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like if you cover it, then >> we'd have to raise them even higher, >> right? Just something that >> and then evaluate it. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Um, I I did hear from one of our restaurants that does a tremendous amount of vending for the community that in other towns where they go and do food truck festivals, for instance, they pay an annual fee. >> Yeah.
>> And we're charging for every single time and it doesn't cover all the inspection costs. Is that something we can look at? So if if they're already licensed in the township, we don't charge them per
event. So they just they still have to fill out an application and let us know what they're serving and and have the inspection, but they're already licensed, so we don't charge them a separate fee. If they're a vendor from out of town, we charge them per event. That's how the ordinance was written.
It's not a it's not an annual license. I mean, that's just how the ordinance was. I thought it was an event. >> Second. >> Sorry, council. Yeah, the floor. I I thought it was per an event. >> It is, >> but the fee like they they have to pay for the permit.
>> So, you have to get a license and then they get the permit for the event and that should cover >> the cost for the inspection is what I always >> the license is the permit. What I what I was saying is if like say I'm just if if you have an establishment a brick and
mortar in town that that's licensed with the town already >> and then you want to participate in a street fair. >> Yeah. >> We don't charge you the health department fee to participate in that event because you're already licensed. >> Okay. >> We do we still require you to have an
inspection and and and file an application for a temporary permit. Well, there's not that many of them that participate, so it's not that much money. But at the end of the day, >> right, >> we have to figure out a way to cover our inspection. So, >> I would disagree.
>> Hold on. Counciloman wanted to go ahead. >> Um, this is the first time I was aware that that the vendors are are charged a fee. Where does that that fee go to? Is that to the general fund or is that to the health department? >> That's to the general fund. Yeah. Yeah. is pursuant to
the the chart of accounts set up by the state of New Jersey. It's other fees and licensed revenue. Yeah. >> Is your temporary food license? Yeah. >> Is that the best practice? >> It's the required practice. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Thank you. So, in speaking to I I'm just
trying to get clarity. So, for instance, and I'm hoping it's okay that I can say the name of the restaurant without them being offended, but Benji's in particular has a brick and mortar and participates in a lot of our community
events at town level as well as the board of ed, but they still pay a fee every time they go somewhere >> to set up their truck. >> And you just >> who who are they paying? They're not paying a health department fee. Yeah, I can tell you that much.
>> So, is that perhaps a fire um >> Oh, yeah. There's a fire in >> there's a fire fee that's Okay, so maybe that's where he was saying in another town they just pay an annual fee for the fire permit >> maybe >> and then Okay. So, but it it is I have
heard some of our vendors, several of our vendors um indicate when they're looking at the cost to vend here in West Orange versus some of the other towns that we do do a different system and it is expensive. So, if we could look at
perhaps obviously not this budget cycle but looking forward to the future um a way where they can pay an annual fee if they're not paying an inspection each time. I'm not >> I don't have a problem with that. It just we would have to have a a system to
track it because you're giving them an annual license. It's you have to like with a temporary establishment, it has to be inspected each time. So, we would have to have a mechanism in place to really keep track of see by by charging at least we know
they have to fill out an application each time and and we know each time what they're the foods that they're offering for sale and and where they're going to be operating. When you just give them an annual permit, they're just out there. >> Well, I'm not suggesting not to expect. I I'm just saying how do
>> it's it's almost like a mechanism to get them to come in for the license. like if they have an annual license, they're they're gonna be less likely to come in and say, "Oh, I'm going to be at the farmers market on Saturday. You know, at least, you know, they know they they have to come in and and submit the
application, pay the fee." It's a it's really a control method. >> What we could do is we could look at if you can provide us some of the towns that have this. So, we'll look at their ordinance. >> I'm not sure if the fire code permits um a onetime fee for the year, but if it
can, we could also look at that as well. So, if you could just give me a couple of towns and we'll we'll visit that because but that again we'd have to bring it to you guys for ordinance change and and if that's something that's desired, we can look at it. All right. director knows I've been working really hard behind the scenes so that we could
get a few more food truck festivals >> and opportunities >> and we we would ensure that there are mechanisms that if they fail to get a a use permit that day even if there's a fee then there then they'll be >> you know
safe right >> thank you >> and that's one of the reasons why we have the inspectors go out you know it's another reason you know there there are people that show up that that don't do the right thing and get licensed ahead of time, get them to get licensed and and get inspection and if they don't, they're
asked to leave. >> So, >> yeah, it's important we're monitoring that. Thank you. Okay. So, should we go back down to council? >> Yes, please. Thank you. Uh I I have several questions about this section, this subsection about general health,
but I wanted to start with page 151 if we could. Uh and that is a a compilation of of the entire portion of the health budget. And what it indicates uh this is page 151 if you want to go
there. It indicates that we already had uh almost a $5,000 increase last year from the budget to the actual spend. And then in addition to that, we are uh requesting a uh increase of almost
$14,000 from the spend last year for a total of $49,420. That's up 39% from the spend of last year. So I I want to get a better handle on this. Uh
why the jump and and what's the plan with this expanded uh request? Now, I know that one of the big drivers is there was appears to be a a significant increase in uh the health commission
fee. Uh this is line 041 back on page 150. Uh the budget last year was 17 grand. The actual spend was almost $28,000. I'm almost $28,000. And I'm just wondering if there's any
way that first of all, what what drove that increase? Was it just as simple as they raised the fee $10,000 and uh uh or was there another reason? And is there anything we can do to basically put a dent in this?
>> Councilman, um if you're ready to move on to the OE, I just want to make sure we don't have any more questions on the SNW. Um >> yes, >> we have more. >> We can we can move on. Okay. Um >> make sure Cab you do have any okay go ahead
>> director Fino actually has um some recommendations you you want to make them now >> that on that page first >> okay so did we talk about this original line here >> yeah so why don't you start with >> no but the objects you want
>> so so the the uh councilman to answer your question the the Essex Regional Health Commission line funds the licensed health officer position, which is a contract with um the Hudson Regional Health Commission, which is sister agency to Essex. Um that's a
$20,000 a year contract. The remainder of that line pays for the uh air pollution control services that they provide to the town. >> Okay. So, why did it go up so significantly between the budget of last year and the actual spend last year?
that the contract amounts been the same since the beginning. >> Okay. So, if you look at line uh we had 17 in >> oh 41 the actual 41 in your budget.
>> Yes, you're exactly right. 041 >> $17,000 in the first column for the budget last year and then the actual spend was almost $28,000. Right. Do I read that correct? the contract amounts been the same since it was negotiated.
>> Yeah, I would say >> that's all I have to go >> is you're you're asking a good question. I don't I don't know. >> Yeah, I'd say that the the the answer is really be under budgeted in in 2025. >> That's the answer. Yeah.
>> No, I think it should have been 27. >> Yeah. 27825. That's what we charge to the line. >> Um >> Well, no. It's two things. It's it's it's the the um health officer is 20,000 and then it's how much per quarter for
air pollution. Think I have it here. >> Um this one has a problem. So >> that goes to the bottom line. That's that's a pretty big chunk of the
39% increase. Do I read that correctly? I didn't have a note on that for last year. So, >> right. So, the first the the quarterly air pollution is 1,95625. That's what we pay per quarter for air pollution.
>> That's not a separate line item. That's that's folded into this commission. >> Folded into the the health commission. And then we pay 5,000 per quarter for uh the health officer. So, 20,000 a year. >> Okay. So the number for the budget
request for 2026 27,825 that's an that's an actual number >> correct? Yes, that's actually paid. Yeah. >> Okay. So I'm not sure what this does to the bottom line on page 151.
You go to the next page because again >> Yeah. >> It inflates it. Well, the payer charged includes the the 27,000. So, um
you know, really we were short $4,000. That's we had to move $4,000 of appropriations so that we weren't overexpended. Um so, if we're just focused on the one line for Essex Regional, the number is 27825 for this year,
>> right? But I I guess there's a the bigger picture is what does it do to the cumulative for the entire section? Because this is this is suggesting that we're we're up 39%. We're up 13 almost $14,000. You're saying that that's not the case
>> that >> Well, it's it's part of the payer charge. So if you were just focused on the payer charge, yes, we're we're up >> versus the 35. Yeah. Mhm. >> So it doesn't change that. it would change it versus what really final 2025
budget should have been. Um, but if you're just looking at what we spent last year versus what we're asking, you're right, it's it's 39%. But we have some changes for the 2026 budget that Mr. Fonino is going to go through as well.
>> Okay. So So the numbers we're looking at, you guys have already decided to make changes to it. Yeah, we wanted to bring some some changes to the governing body. Yeah. >> Okay. So then why are we looking at outdated numbers? Why why don't you give
us >> clean it up? >> Give us this is >> I mean how am I going to do that? This is the introduced budget. Our process has been we go through these hearings and we make our changes. So we're we saved it for here.
>> Yes. But Oh, sorry. >> Okay. Okay. So, let let me see if I understand it. So, for the 2026 budget, the number there is $49,420 >> and and we'd like to suggest some we'll suggest some cuts for you about that.
>> So, but so the $49,420 is an actual That's a real number. That's an That's correct. >> That's the introduced request. Yeah. >> The increase of almost $14,000. That's correct. >> Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, >> that's correct. Okay. And then the
percentage increased is correct. >> Okay. So, uh I had a couple of other questions about line items in this. I don't know whether to do that. Do those now before you get to your >> suggested changes. >> Do you want to you want to go through
the questions first? >> Whatever the council >> Yeah. Whatever the council does. So if you go back to to uh page 150 >> uh line 110 >> which is office supply and it says EQ. >> Now
>> I wish I have had an emotional quotient but I actually have a negative number when that comes to but you guys may be referring to it as something else. EQ >> it's it should be equipment. It was a typo. >> Well it's no it's just cut off but >> yeah I think it got cut off but it's
it's office supplies and equipment. >> Okay. So on that line item, you budgeted $500 last year. You spent $189 and now you want $8,000. >> Correct. So this is this is the one that we were actually going to suggest the
cut for. If you want me to explain it, I can. >> Yeah. There there was something if if I may, Council President, before we take a deep dive into this, perhaps we should go back and finish up one page 148. >> Okay. >> I think we needed a vote on that page. >> Ready to consent to 148? It's >> Does anybody want this off of consent?
>> Consent. Good. Thank you. >> So, so item 110, the reason that there's if we're just looking paid or charged right now, 2026, there's $8,329
that is for um the senior health, no public health nursing supervisor consultant. There's charge there. Um >> why? No, no. This is
>> Well, it's something we need. It just should be charged to public health nursing. So, it it was encumbered against this line item that encumbrance to the correct department. Again, net
changes. It's still charged >> from Monontlair State that >> No. No. >> No. Okay. >> No. And we're asking for a reduction in this line for $7,500. So that what remains there for office
supplies would be $500. >> Okay. >> Which sounds better. >> Councilwoman Ruden has a question. >> If I if I could. >> Okay. >> I have not yielded the floor because I'm I'm still trying to get through all of these. Go ahead. But I guess if you're
talking about the new stuff, then I should yield until I'm >> You'll give it back to me because I do have a couple of questions. So, please go. >> No, go ahead. Please. So, my my question was you have a new a nurse supervisor. >> Can't we have we have quite a few nurses? Can't any of them work in the
capacity of a supervisor? Currently, >> we we have a lot to talk about with the nurses and I think we should save it for that department because we're going to answer that question and I think some more um when we get into that. So, >> okay. Because what I'm hearing is we're shifting budgets. We're not actually
reducing it. And what I'd like to do with No, >> no, no. It's I I I didn't say it the right way. There is there is an appropriation for that nursing service. So, I'm not moving an additional 7500
over there. Um, but that appropriation line item for that nursing service is sort of up in the air and we will get to that. Um, it's a good thing. It's a good thing we're going to talk about, but let's save it for when we get to public health nursing.
>> Okay. So, that 7,000 is just in the air. >> No, we're asking for a cut of 7,500, leaving 500 in there truly for office supplies. >> Okay. And just if we could go back one one second. >> I I don't want to take away from
Councilman Koviaak though. That's the only thing I I I just wanted to explain this because you did ask about this line. >> So you're asking that to go down to to uh reduce it by 7500. >> Correct. >> Yeah. I'll make make a motion to reduce that.
>> Second in a hurry. Just >> let's get his own >> for uh the >> I just have a quick >> in the middle of the motion. >> The clerk um >> we didn't vote, I guess,
>> right? I was waiting to see. >> It doesn't matter who said uh >> any discussion? >> Not on that. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino to produce. Councilman Kovia. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Williams. Council President Scara. The motion carries.
So this is line 110 um that we want to reduce by $7,500. Got it. >> Counciloman Castelino. So >> So just just a recommendation, Mr. Datiniac, and I appreciate because I know I was on the phone with you early this morning about the recck department
and and director Johnson. Um and that's why we we're not here this evening. Um, do you do you have a sheet to give us? Because last year, what happened when you came to the meetings, there was an
updated sheet from the directors when we got there of changes. So, we had it in our hand, which was easier to follow the bouncing ball. So, do you do you have something that you could give us? >> We did this at 3:30. >> Okay. >> 3:15. >> Say no. I appreciate it. So, we go.
Yeah. Okay. If you >> Okay. Say no more. Thank you for doing that. >> Do you still have the floor? >> Yes, I'm happy to take it back. Thank you. So, I I think you were about to you did mention professional services. If
you look on page 152 in the uh Q1 expenses down, there's a new line item called 100 professional services. >> Yeah, that's >> so that's not in the original budget.
There is no line item for 100 professional services, >> right? There's this the sub account isn't in the other page there, but that's the 8329 that's referenced there. Yeah. >> Okay. So, so where does that come in? Because if
it's not in the original budget, then uh are we adding 800 8,329? >> No, no, no, you're not adding. No. >> Okay. So, >> it's in the original budget as the per charged and then that 8,000 was in there as the budget request.
>> I'm so confused. >> Can we just start from the top and go all the way down? >> Yeah. I'm so I don't understand what that is. >> It's the nurse supervisor. >> It's the 8329 that was in line 110. >> And now you're adding a >> We're not adding. We're not adding.
We're not adding. Not adding anything. We're not adding. >> It's got charts of the wrong lines. and we took it out and then we cut $7,500. >> So, next year we'll see it online supervised. >> No, you won't even see it. It doesn't belong in this department. It belongs in
the public nursing uh public health nursing department. >> Yeah, we just it got charged to the wrong line. >> Okay. Well, just that's fine. Accidents. >> Okay. So, I just had one more question in the general health section and that
was line 125 for the EID uh enforcement and I just wanted to ask if this is a potential further reduction. Uh the budget was for $1,31 last year. We spent $1,146.
So, it was the spend was a little bit higher than the budget. And this year it the budget request has been bounced up to $1,500. And I'm trying to understand why there was a jump and and what's the plan behind that that increase uh in the
request for 2026. >> Um I I believe it was 1500. It wasn't 1500 last year, too. >> No, it was cut to $1,30. Yeah. >> Request was 1500. Mhm. >> Um, yeah. I mean, we have uh an
ecigarette licensing ordinance. We charge $2,000 per license. And the idea is that money is supposed to go back into the enforcement and education, you know, to do enforcement and education. And that's what we pay the um inspectors out of this line to do those
inspections. >> Well, no, you you pay you don't pay the inspectors out on this line. >> This is for operating. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> I apologize. This is the >> this is for for for uh materials uh I apologize educational materials um and and different supplies that are
are needed to do the uh enforcement and education. >> Councilwoman Ruben Ruben has her hand up in >> So again, I just want to get to the point. >> Yep. >> You're telling me last year the original was 1,500 and we reduced it to a,000.
The council reduced it to $1,000 last year. I believe that >> 31 >> believe that. >> I'm sorry I can't remember. >> Yeah, we had a reduction. >> Yeah, I think we went like across the board. >> Okay. So then last year you spent $1,146. Now you want to bump it up to 1,500. I'm
not opposed to that except I would like to know why we would why we should increase that line item. >> Councilman, I'm I'm willing to go with what we spent if not down to,00. >> Great. I hear a motion. >> Wait, no. No, please. Not yet. I'm not
ready to >> I know council woman has questions and so does council wait sometime. >> So um have you yielded >> well >> you pretty much took it over so yes please go ahead.
>> I just didn't want to make a motion when I haven't asked my questions on the same topic. >> Sure. That's fair. >> Um the the EIGs there is I mean this line item was not spent on EIG enforcement. It was spent on office
supplies, business cards, and paper. I don't know what you're actually paying for in terms of EIG enforcement. But this seems like this is a category that has really morphed into office supplies. And and what I would suggest is take
what you spent and last year you spent 147 on this. This year to date you've spent nothing on this because I don't really think that there is a um any any money associated with EIG enforcement. So, what I'd like to suggest is take
from this budget some money and put it into office supplies and eliminate this category since it really is not is not serving any purpose at this point. >> I disagree, but um >> that's what the the invoices show. What
is going into this? We bought some um supplies for uh tablets that we were using that are used for doing these inspections. Um >> but not only for EIG inspections.
>> Yeah, but we utilize I mean we're utilizing the >> No, I understand. And it's it's a >> taking me away. It's it's it's a general office expense. It's not specifically for EIG enforcement. So, what I'd like to do is just eliminate this category
and move some of this budget into into office supplies where it really should be since you're buying paper, business cards, and whatever you bought. Last year, you only spent $147 >> chopping into 110. Yeah, I'm not sure that's accurate, but yeah, we can move
it to 110 if that's >> So, I don't want to move the entire thing to 110 because that seems like a lot considering that we've only spent I'd like I'd like to move 500 into into the office supplies, which I think is
more than generous, and eliminate a thousand and eliminate this line until we have a better handle on what actually is being produced for EIG enforcement. Okay, Councilwoman Williams does have a question.
>> Thank you. Uh, director, could you just share what EIG enforcement actually looks like so that we can >> Sure. So, as I stated earlier, any um establishment that sells ecigarettes, vapes, any any any nicotine delivery
product um is required by ordinance to get a license. >> A $2,000 license. Do we know how many um stores sell ecigarettes in our municipality >> presently? >> A lot.
>> I don't have a number in front of me, but um I probably could look it up. You give me one second. >> Sure. You know what? Can Can I get you that number? I guess it's >> Well, you can, but I I just wanted to
understand if it's $2,000 per >> Hold on. store and we have 10 stores that's $20,000. >> Yeah. >> We really wouldn't need money on enforcement or information >> anything
>> or anything related to EIGs if the money from the EIGs was >> coming to that >> was coming to EIGs. So I'm really trying to understand why this is necessary. So, so when the when the ordinance was
created, if you look at the ordinance, the I think it it pretty much spells it out in there that the the license money was supposed to go back to doing education and enforcement. And part of that was having the inspectors go out
outside of their normal responsibilities. It's not something that's going to be done during work time. paid be paid as an overtime activity. >> So is that happening? When do they go out? Like when do they go out >> their hours and on the weekends
>> to where where >> where and they go to they go to the places that currently have a license because there's a set of guidelines in the ordinance that they have to follow. >> Okay. >> And then they go out to other potential places. >> So this is not community education. This
is making sure the vendors who are selling the project product >> understand what their rules and requirements. So that's that's kind of enforcement. >> Yes. >> More so, >> but it's educate. When I say education, it's educating the the vendors on our ordinance requirement because we we'll
go out and find a gas station that's selling vapes and they don't have a license. So, we're educating them that they have to get a license. >> Okay. You know, >> right. But >> we we >> I I'm just look, if we're drunk if we're trying to look at how we can minimize
costs in my head and and obviously this isn't the only solution, but right off the top, what comes to me is we should have a flyer already printed up with the rules and regulations. And if you go to someone that's selling vapes, you shut
them down immediately because they don't have a license. and then you give them a simple handout and which would has all the rules and regulations. So it just seems to me that that education really doesn't have to entail a tremendous amount of expense.
Council, the other the other part of the uh the ordinance is doing um like age of sale checks. So we we can send a minor in to make sure that they're not selling to to minors that these funds are also can be used for that.
>> And so do you pay that minor? How does that work? >> Correct. >> You pay the minor. Is it a substantial amount? Are you giving them a $25 check or >> they get a they get a pretty decent amount? >> And we haven't done it in the past couple years, but I think I think they
were getting like at least 20 bucks a inspection. >> I'm curious as to how much of this enforcement we're actually doing. >> It I' I'd like to go back to my original motion because it it seems like this is a little fuzzy and maybe by next year
we'll have this clear. um both the ordinance that the ordinance needs to be relooked at in terms of where the money is going to for who when you when you collect the $2,000. Where is that money going? Um as far as I can tell, it looks
like enforcement is part of what your staff does. That's that's what your staff does. We don't need a separate line item for them to do their job. And if we're sp what we're spending money on are just office supplies. So, I'd like to go back to a and not that and not
spending that much. So, I'd like to go back to my original motion, which is to eliminate this line to well, before we eliminate this line to reduce take $1,000 out of this, take 500 and move it
into um office supplies. >> I'll second. >> Okay. So, can we be more specific when we make a motion so we have it on the record? You want to reduce line number >> I'm sorry. I'd like to reduce line number 125
>> by $1,000. And the remaining $500 that is there, I would like to move that into >> line 110. >> I'm sorry, which line is that? >> Line 110. >> 110. You just gave it a $7,500
haircut. Why would we move more money in there? That is now office supplies. Oh, and so you know what? Forget it. Never. Thank you. Thank you for that. I'd like to make an amendment. >> I'd like even secondary.
>> It was second before we >> I'll resent I'll resend my second. >> Okay. So, what I'd like to do is just eliminate this and eliminate $1,500. Thank you for that catch. >> So, I'm sorry, Councilwoman. You want to reduce? I want to reduce the line item
125 by $1,500. >> $1,500. Okay, thank you. >> Um, and is there a second on that? >> Second. >> Okay. Um, okay. Let me do the vote. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes.
>> We voting on the amendment to the original. >> No, I believe the second was rescended. So therefore, this this is this motion is now. >> Sorry, I missed that. Thank you. >> Okay. Council Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. >> Council President Spark. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Again, Council President, go ahead. >> I just make Do you want to Can you go over what you were bringing to us so we don't have to sit here and go through the whole thing? Let's do that. >> So this way
>> That makes a lot of sense. >> Can you start up with petticashing? >> Oh, that was it. That was all he wanted to cut. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is there was there anything else? Because you do have some line items that you didn't spend any money in. I
will they be spent this year. Anything you think you should delete? >> If there I'd like to make a recommendation. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Well, that that was I was asking like if there's anything else they want to add
to this so we don't go through each one. Um I guess speak now forever. Hold you please. >> We're just going to try to clean this stuff up so there spins. >> Is is it possible for us to do a much
broader um adjustment and if it was a line item that was not used last year uh for us to identify why it needs to be used this year? I mean, >> yeah, they did that last year, Councilwoman. And so some things he doesn't he may or may not use, but if
they if it breaks, you know, like the noise meter, he So there were certain things, but again, Mr. You know, Ponzino, I'mma for that if you want to go like I have a question on pest control. >> Yeah, I'm looking at >> roden bait. Are you
like to know where we're at with 12? Yeah, we're that we're we're changing the name of that category as it doesn't accurately reflect what we're buying. >> Um it's really pest control supplies. Um it's not bait.
>> So like we you know there's >> what would that look like? Not trying to be funny. Trying to understand what is a pest control supply? >> Like I think we we purchase like a bee spray or the inspe inspectors use like a flushing agent. Um, so it's it is pest
pest control, but it's not bait. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And and and to the counciloman's point, 113 decals is only a $50 line item. Like, shouldn't that be in office supplies or >> it's always something we had separately?
Decals are for the um for garbage collection. We we have if somebody's using the you know wrong container size we have decals that the the format will put on the >> so we kept it separate. It's not it's not a huge randomized >> and we don't we don't buy them every
year you know I don't know how many we have left um but you know we might need to buy them. We might need to buy more. >> Yeah. Protective clothing. Like the list goes on. Let me I wanted to say that all of these items that we didn't spend
money for, we should just take out of the budget and they should just be merged with something else. >> Um, other than clothing, I'm a I'm a big advocate for you all having the right attire when you're going out into the municipality representing the township
because people do want to be able to identify who you are. But as far as photo supplies maintenance of the typewriters, I mean, do you all still have typewriters? >> We do. >> Yeah, he does. >> You still have a typewriter? >> We have one typewriter and
>> and it requires $200 of maintenance a year because you can buy a new typewriter for I mean, why are we doing maintenance on typewriter? >> Well, it's used to buy like the cartridges and things like that. I don't know. >> So, that's not maintenance. That's supplies. And then if that office
supplies then it should be coming out of the office supply budget, >> right? But if if there's a problem that's like if somebody has to come out and fix it, that's what we were ignoring. If you want to cut it, then we won't be able we we we're required to do it for for vital statistics. There's still things that have to be done.
>> I know it sounds hard to believe, but I could have my regar come here and tell you the same thing. There's something I I just don't understand. >> If it's ink, that's the office supplies. If it's maintenance on a typewriter, a typewriter, you can go buy a typewriter for $140,
maybe less. >> I'm gonna go buy a typewriter every time it breaks. I don't know. I mean, if you want to cut it, cut it. I I don't I don't know what to say. It's $200. >> Well, what we're trying to get to is not being petty, but just trying to say if it's not money that is essential, we
want to remove it. We're penny pinching here to try and save, you know, thousands of dollars, which doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense. So, I'm kind of sort of with my colleague, we're saying you cut your whole bunch. Like, you know what? >> No, I know. I I I mentioned this last
year. I mean, I I it's like you almost get penalized. Like, I was using a lot of grant funds to offset office supplies over the the past few years to save money. But now th those those grants are gone. So >> now I need I need it in the budget
>> to operate my department. So I mean I you guys whatever you want to cut cut but I I may be coming back to you later for more because I don't >> I'm trying to do my best. >> I think that also should have a better handle as the department head. >> Yeah.
>> Again we just these little things if we can eliminate them it would be helpful for us to get to a better bottom line. Um, as far as maintenance of the noise meter, I did have a question about that. I thought we did not have a noise
>> and that that that category need is be renamed >> too. >> That's more equipment maintenance. >> So typewriter is not equipment and then this maintenance is >> let's get the name. Our inspectors use other equipment,
Councilwoman, that that sometimes requires maintenance. So, >> radio repairs and beeper maintenance. And then we have computer supplies. I mean, I don't know. I I right to know expenses. Right to know.
What is right to know? >> The right to know is it's a comm community right to know is for hazardous substances in the workplace. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Counciloman Castelino, are you finished? Would you
>> Yeah. >> I I just think we need to recategorize some of this stuff, move some of these smaller line items into actual supplies, if they're supplies, and then as the director of the department, you determine uh where where it needs to
come from. I I just don't think we need all of these small $50, $75, $100. If they're supplies, they're supplies. If they're office supplies, they're office supplies. And that should be under office supplies. >> Okay. I I could do away with the right to know expenses. I haven't used I
haven't used that line and I I don't see a need for it. >> Correct. >> I can give that. Yes, >> Line 135 can come out. I mean that we were using that for printing because you have to print the hazardous fact sheets, but we'll have the departments print them.
>> Okay, Councilwoman Kesley, I know you had your hand. >> Well, I I always feel bad because we're we're sitting here with you guys in the hot seat and I don't want it to feel like a hot seat. Um, you know, again, time and time again, we're just trying to get this to zerobased budgeting and
of course, you don't have a crystal ball. You don't know what may or may not happen this year. But I mean, I like to give the director the opportunity to clean this up or maybe rec uh categorize uh some of it.
But I also don't, you know, I want you to think about it like, you know, you raised and I'm glad you did because you did raise two categories or switch two around, but all these other miscellaneous I'm going to call some of them um need to be, you know,
reorganized. So, do you want to take some time to do that? And you know, we're here, you know, instead of us sitting here doing this now and putting you like you should really be looking at this. I don't want to tell you where to put what. But to us, we're just pointing out
obviouses for us like what should be office supplies or what should be equipment. That's for you to make those kind of decisions, not us. But we that's what we're looking for, director. And and that's all. We don't want to short change you, but we also um with the way
we've been operating for years has been, you know, when we may need something, there's an emergency, it's it's really going by what you're really going to need. And you know, you you may need a little extra office supply because you know you have these other things that
you could get uh could happen, but you need to enumerate it that way. >> Okay. We'll work on consolidating it. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden has a question. >> Yes. Um, I mean, I I think that uh we need to deal with with this budget
right now since it's before us and not not give more time. We're we're looking at this and seeing that there were not expenses in a number of categories. You could see straight down and most of these categories were also had no expenses in the last year. What I'm
hearing the director say is that he he desperately wants to have some money put aside for maintenance of whatever equipment is. And >> what I would like to suggest is that we remove all of these categories, create
which which comes to $4,977. Remove all of the categories, create one category for maintenance. So that we then have reduced the budget by um almost $4,000
and yet we've created a $1,000 maintenance category. And if you need more during the year, let us know. We'll make an adjustment. >> I'll second. Is that a motion? >> Yes, I will make that motion. >> Second that motion. So, can can you just tell me the lines
that you're looking to >> We don't We want you to go back and you figure out how to reduce your budget by $4,000 based on what you need. >> Well, I can tell him exactly which ones we're reducing. >> Let him figure out where his department
needs are instead of us. None of us have >> Okay. >> operating his department. >> We can't be micromanaging. >> Exactly. Let let us just make the recommendation as we have to reduce Well, not our role. I'll work on that one. We we I can see where you're where
you're going and we'll >> Yeah. Thank you. Okay. So, so actually what we could do is this in maintenance if we could add $977 into maintenance category and reduce our budget by 4,000. >> 4,000. >> Okay.
>> 4,000 even. >> Yes. >> Is that a motion? >> It was and I had already seconded it. >> Well, the first motion I was confused by. No, because it was like remove all these line items. That's not >> $4,000.
>> Reduce reduce it by 4,000 and create one category. I guess you could use >> But you need she needs the line number. >> Okay. Well, we don't have there are there are three right now uh line items for maintenance. So, I want to combine
130, 131, and 132. >> Yeah. So, so do the rest of us. And he needs to do that and come back to us with the updated sheet. Right. >> I'm not going to I'm not going to sit here because everybody wants to say, "Oh, look what I could add the budget." We need we we express it, let him
enumerate it, come back with the sheet, and then and then let's approve it because this is is way too long. It's not fair to the director to to feel uncomfortable with us operating this way. >> I can manage where he needs to spend money.
>> And but I agree with you. This is the the goal that I do agree with the goal. It's just the way we're doing it. I I'm not agreeing. >> If I may, >> I think it's terrible. >> I understand what you guys want to do. So, what we're going to do is if you want to do the the motion to reduce the total number, $4,000, the director will
provide you a sheet so that when we come back to go through each page for advice and consent, you can then say, "Okay, here's the page. Just paid. This is what's done." Boom. And he gives it to that make it simple for every madam click. So just just for director funino >> this page
>> the cut is $13,000 in total right that's what he has to figure out >> 13,000 yes >> 7500 and 4,000 yeah >> say I want to make sure he's not short >> he wasn't short short >> I thought the motion would reduce the
budget by $4,000 that's what I heard I'm just saying for just for his records in total There was a motion to cut 7500. Yep. >> That was passed. There was a motion to cut 1500 from 125. That was passed. >> No. >> No, that didn't.
>> That was not Yes, it was. >> Yeah. >> The Eig one wasn't passed. >> Yes, it was not. Councilwoman Castelino rescended her motion and then >> we had this conversation, right? Then we start >> then it was reduced. >> I'm have to keep every motion.
Okay. Okay. >> We're jumping around too much. I'm getting confused. Um, so now was the motion to reduce the budget by $4,000? The next one with the next one. So we have two. >> So who made the first motion? Who made
the first on that? Because I know >> Councilwoman Rhoden and then >> Councilwoman Ruden, Councilwoman Williams on the second. Um, and this is to reduce by $4,000 by combi and combine lines 131 through 13. Uh, 130 through 132, please.
>> Yeah, I know. No, that's not part of the motion. >> We're going to let him work. >> Okay. >> They don't want to make >> So, >> well, some of us do. >> I do, but it's not >> I just want to go back to Eig. I thought that was the whole point. We We did make
a motion to to eliminate. >> Yeah. But >> So, we've reduced the whole budget, this whole page by 13,000, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I do have that. I just >> Okay. >> And we're going to come back and revisit this when just to sign off when when the director has the
>> and I have to reord take the vote on the the latest 4,000. >> But don't get too excited cuz from what I heard that 75 was going somewhere else in the budget. No. Okay. >> Okay. And I will be a little more excited that >> we're moving right along.
>> All right. Councilwoman Castelino on the reduction for $4,000. >> Yeah. Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, yes. >> Council President, yes. The motion carries, >> but we won't consent on the page. >> Correct. We're going to brings it back.
Then we can consent on the reor, >> right? I wrote that down. So, there we go. Maybe we'll get out of here by midnight. >> Okay. So, sorry. Uh yes, CBA has some comments.
Okay, thank you. Um lots of notes on this page. I'll try not to duplicate. Um, in addition to the line items that you're going to consider, director, um, we wonder if you would assess the, uh,
printing line item 030. Um, you've asked for $1,500. You spent less than a,000 last year. Perhaps you could go down to a,000 um, this. Um,
on line 082, $350 for courses and educational material. I'm wondering, or we're wondering if that can be shifted to the general education budget, um, which the other departments have moved their
budgets to is >> Yes, that that actually can can. Okay. Um, I'm open to that. as long as as John says it. >> Yeah, we were actually going to bring that one up. Yeah.
>> Okay. And then um the last thing I have is really a question, director. If I recall, last year you said that you were in graduate school, whatever, to get licensed as a health officer. How how far along are
you there? Will you be a licensed health officer? That's a personel matter. We don't discuss that in public. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> I motion Councilwoman. >> I'd like Ruden has
>> I I want to I want to follow up on CB's recommendation. I'd also had a note here for myself in terms of the printing >> um line line 30 that um the spend is very low. Um the purchase this year was
just for stamps and um the the ask is 500. I'd like to is um is 1,500. I'd like to reduce that budget by a th000. >> What line please? >> Line 30 >> 030. >> Oh the printing line. Yes.
>> Okay. >> Well, I No, >> we just took away $4,000 and asked him to come back and figure it out. >> Let him come back to us and figure it out and then if you can reduce anywhere,
I'm sure you'll be more than happy to come back to us and let us know. >> We could utilize those recommendations as part >> right. Exactly. >> That sounds fair. >> Well, >> so there's no second on that motion. This is over. This is getting >> right. And I'm sorry, Councilwoman
Ruden, what was the your line? Reduce it by how much? >> I was I was requesting to reduce line uh 30 by a thousand. Okay, >> Miss Cornell, I don't I don't believe there's >> I don't I don't believe I don't believe it was >> I have to show action. That was an
action. I have to put it in my minutes. It doesn't matter if it passed or not. It has to go in the minutes. >> Okay. I'm sorry for jumping. >> That's okay. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. We have to get all the details curled. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Well, we're going to let Mr. Fonina do this thing and come back to us. >> Okay. What do you got next? >> Okay. So, Oh, this is going to be fun. >> Oh, that's my favorite. >> The omnibus. >> I got
>> So, before we begin, I know we've had some comments in public comment. Actually, council president, if you'd let me just 30 seconds to speak on this very quickly. >> Absolutely. >> Um, we did have a comment from the public and there I think was some comment from the deis about uh the
omnibus program. So, we are doing that deep dive and I understand that you know you're going to give your CBA um instructions on how to work on this project. So what we've put together or putting together right now is uh a look on total cost of omnibus which obviously
we're going to be talking about salaries here but also fringe benefits related to these salaries. Um we've pulled vehicle maintenance for the last 12 months. We've pulled fuel so gallons used. That's more important to us than than the price as as gas obviously
fluctuates. um coming up with a depreciation expense on any of our buses that could still be depreciated and then the cost of um an allocated cost of our liability and workers compensation insurance. Obviously, we have drivers and we have
um vehicles that we cover. So, we're trying to figure out a way that we can allocate u you know both those costs to the omnibus program in order to give ourselves a better idea of the total um cost of of running jity service. Um
living off the senior busing side of things, but just the jity service. Um so that is in the works right now. I have the vehicle maintenance just got it today and I'll have the fuel tomorrow. Isn't the senior bus part of all this busing? >> It is. It is part of it at all.
>> I think senior busing we cannot charge for. Correct. Is that >> and we couldn't charge for it. It could be part of this because the omnibus drivers do senior driving as well. All these individual well some of these
individ balance back and forth but the part- timerrs are mostly >> legit. Yeah. >> We have a couple nighttime routes, right? >> Yeah. And we have what? >> Some some do morning and evening, some just do the morning, some just do the evening. So there's a mix, >> but we do need to look at it even if
they're not charged. Councilman Cass. >> So yeah, I was listening to the public comments coming in and I appreciate that. you know, this is a cost that has crept up since I've been here. And um we had a full conversation last year again
about we, you know, we need to get presented with a capital budget so we could put the, you know, the the computerized apparatus on the buses so we can charge people. I mean, where are we at with all
of that? That that's my question number one. Are we getting closer? Um, number two, and I appreciate CBA looking into this, but just so you know, the council's been looking council members have been looking at this, so this isn't anything new. We were hoping to have
this solved before this year. So, I I mean, it's it's a great recommendation, but it's it's one that we've been waiting for to get presented so we can take action on it because there definitely needs to be some kind of fee associated with it. We talked about
advertising on on the buses and and whatnot. So, um yeah, you know, if we need to approve something that's separate from Well, that's the whole problem. You have a bunch of capital expenses you got to present to us so we can even move
forward with with this. So, where you at with actually >> I think we know the cost of Pacio. Um, it's more of figuring out what's what's the fee going to be. Is it going to be quarterly? Is it going to be annual? Is it going to be twice a year?
Is it is there a monthly option? Is there a payer ride option? So, I think >> we we've looked into one, their current vendor uh for obtaining the equipment, which we presented to you. Fact, I just received an email again from them today.
Um, but we also just recently spoke with another vendor that's um providing the same type of service and we're looking into them as well. But whatever service we go to, the the cost the capital improvement to it is going to cost us somewhere around $100,000 or maybe a
little bit more as we spoke about last year. I mean, one of the suggestions are, you know, we we have it in the capital, but you know, if you want to I know we're trying to reduce this budget, but if you put it into the operating, we could start moving on it quicker and we can put it we look at we're looking at using a tag service where anybody can
use it and if it's an out of town, what do we care if we're going to collect the fee? Um, some people want to park like we can add, we've already spoken to the county about adding maybe possibly adding a stop over at the South Mountain Arena. People have to park there, they could pay there and they can do a parking ride. Last year we added a seventh route because of the demand on
the northern end of the town, >> the damp >> because of well because of the camp went out of business and and so on and so forth and and the increased ridership from our from our citizens. So it was getting very u laborious for the for the commuter to go home at especially at night time they're getting the trans
South Orange. They're going all the way up Main Street all the way up or down by by 280 Bless Valley Way. >> It could take somebody 45 minutes to an hour to get home and that's not a fair system either. So, we wound up adding a second or splitting that line, creating u line number seven. I've spoken to um
other communities that were getting out of the business because it's just it is cost prohibitive. I've spoken to other communities that added cost to some places are charging per ride. Some places are charging 600 bucks a year depending on on the service. So, which is, you know, and we're trying to find
out what is that spot that we we like to um charge somebody. So >> my okay my concern too is that we have to look longterm because we have all these apartments that are going to be built in all this affordable housing and this thing is doubled in like a year or two. It's going to escalate to something
that is not going to be manageable very soon. >> Well it's not that it's not manageable. We we've addressed the wrership by adding a line. It's how do we sustain it with a fee and that's the next step. That's what we need to do. So we we're looking at >> putting on these onboard systems so that
people can charge. So we could charge the riders and not include the seniors because that's a different service. We have, as I explained last year, we have two different services with the same buses. One is commuter, one is senior. So the senior is 8:30 to 4:30. Our commuter is from approximately our
drivers coming around 5:30, quarter to 6 to 8:30 in the morning. And then then our uh and then it resumes later on the afternoon like around 5:00. They begin until 8:30, whatever time the last bus, you know, train comes in. and some of our drivers stay later because sometimes the trains are delayed and we we have a
driver that will stay a little longer. But that's that's how we operate it. And so what we need to do is cover those six six or seven hours of daily commuter services with a fee. >> I think we need to understand our cost structure and have this working group that and that we're we're putting
together now. We're going to have SBA look at it. Councilman Kovia could work on it with me before we invest in any equipment. We need to understand this better and we need to look at the next this over five years. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Okay. Council President. So I disagree
because we had a whole conversation on this last year that this is what they're going to present to us so we could get this done. I mean we keep talking about it and we could be incurring we could be um collecting fees for this which you
know we wouldn't be having $649,000 outstanding bill on this. So, I think we did the the the due diligence. Yes, we did. We did. We had we had these same conversations last year. Mr. Moraldo came to us a couple of times. I don't know how much more you have to look at
it. We got to get it moving. That's number one. >> We don't have the metrics. We don't have the metrics on this. We need to seriously analyze it before we start investing in a floor. >> I have I have the floor >> and I get I get it. I totally get it. But again, you're you're dumping it off
to a committee when we have our our administration going to present us with the information. That's number one. Number two, I just I know that I heard the comments at uh public comment in the car on the way in. Um multiple times we went to the uh board of education to
talk about uh with their drivers if we could some somehow, you know, uh share drivers and and that's hasn't worked out to this point, but still keep trying. if that's ever an opportunity um keep please keep pursuing that but I just wanted to mention that we looked at
share services uh in the past with that in the school district um the timing with the drop offs with the schools is the issue with their drivers and uh their needs versus the timing with our needs. So um that wasn't an option for
us. So just so you to to piggyback on their comment, some of our drivers are actually professional drivers for school bus companies and some have actually worked for New Jersey Transit and Times they're tagging off. So we hire these a lot of these people are this is a part-time job, not a full-time job. It's
we've been through a lot of them because the salary we pay is is nominal. You know, there's some other towns now they're charging more because they were having the same problem we did. They couldn't attract anybody, so they raised their their fees just like I spoke to you about with the inspectors. our fees are starting to lag a little bit. So,
people see a better opportunity, they leave. We just hired we lost three people recently and we hired two, you know, and that's for the part-timers, you know, it's it's it's it's difficult. We're we've been trying to get a pool of of of about 18 to 20 part- timerrs just
because and we we run 14 routes. We just we need to bullpen these people because not everybody works every single day. So, we have to we have to have a a pool to go to. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So that and that's what we've been we've been trying to operate here. >> Yeah. I spoke to Mr. Zatiniac about this
this morning. I am creating a working group, a committee to look at this. I would like CBA to look at it and Councilman Kodiac to work with me on this. We need metrics and we cannot spend $100,000 or make any capital expenditures until we understand what
this is costing us and what and how we if there are any opportunities to run it more efficiently. and and council president, I'm just again I I I think this is total waste of time. I think the administration should make a presentation and us five council
members look at the presentation and voted up or down so we can move on with this and we've been talking about this for a year and here it is a year later and we could have been we could have been receiving payments on the Jity service. We drag things out. We
overanalyze. They worked on the information. Bring it to us in a presentation. I don't understand why we're going to waste another. >> I don't think we've analyzed it. And I think we need metrics and I think it's irresponsible to invest 100,000 going to bring it to us >> without us doing the work that we need. >> We wouldn't vote for it. They got to
make a presentation. Ridiculous. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Thank you. Um, so >> waste. Is there any >> nothing >> uh breakout of what the actual cost is for the seniors for the jity versus what
the cost is for transport through our train service? >> I don't think we have anything at that rate, do we? >> All the buses are in use. >> No, because there's overlap between drivers. >> You'd have to say and and you know is
50% of Joe Smith's time spent doing senior that I'm suggesting and I think my colleague is suggesting that we need to have the information from the administration as opposed to a working group that's still going to have to go back to the administration to get the
data. We just need the administration to provide us with the data. And this Jitney situation has something that we've actually been talking about not just last year but every single budget cycle that I have personally sat through and there have been conversations about
whether or not we eliminate the jitney and we've also been told that because we have use by our seniors that it kind of sort of makes sense for us to continue providing the service to our residents. Um, one of the questions that we've
always asked in the past is actually data to see how many residents are actually using um, the service. And so I know that that's something that you have worked on and you have that information, but when we look at the expense
>> versus 50,000 residents, does it make sense for us to continue providing this as an amenity? I say this with a lot of hesitation as a real estate professional, a broker who always
states to people who are looking at our town as a commuter community town telling them but we have a jity service and that is a bonus for people who are coming into our community when you're looking at South Orange or any other
neighboring train community. So, what we really need to look at is, is this almost $900,000 expense something that we can pull out of our budget? And I'm not saying that we need to do it tomorrow, but maybe we need to
look at terminating this this year perhaps if it doesn't make financial sense. Run it through. give people enough notice to let them know, not do a decamp where we shut it down next week and we don't let people know. And I
don't know if that's the right thing to do given the constraints that we have for our budget, but I'm seeing escalated continuing costs and and even charging a nominal fee isn't going to help. It's not going to offset this expense.
>> So, we do have some quick numbers here for you. So for the senior transportation program last year um from January 1 to December 31 there was 1,324 senior transportations that now that includes trips to the doctors that's not it's not just it's not just going to the
grocery store but there's there's a lot of there's medicals and that was a total of >> but one other question >> 7,97 trips. >> Okay but that's only in West Orange. We don't transport outside of our 12 square miles. Correct. >> Unless it's a medical say like dialysis
or something like that, you know, like Livingston, we go to Livingston or something like that. We don't we don't transport like over county and things of that nature. It's it's if it's a neat basis for medical, we'll make that exception for but it's a it's a case by case because St. Barnabas is technically Livingston, you know, so it's but it's
right over the border. But um we we normally go within our borders. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and as far as the local commuter jitney, last year we transported 80,691 persons over 21,240 trips.
>> How does that how does that break down to per person though? >> That we we that's going to be more difficult because if you look at the metrics that we were asking for, there's certain days of the week we may have say nine people on one bus and then let's say on a Monday and on a Wednesday there
may have 15 people. >> But that's fast forward. for a few years so that we could really figure out whether or not this is a viable system that we're using. So >> we can get you those numbers where we you could see that >> which is exactly why we need a committee to do this.
>> I am the administration to do their job. >> I would am developing a committee to look at this sebath and council. Um I've talked to Mr. Jatin about this this morning and I he we need to look at the maintenance. We need to look at all
of the costs and we and we need to do it it seriously. If you could, Mr. Dutin, if you can get us all that information, send it around to >> myself, Councilman Koak, and Steve, and then we can meet with you and and take a look at this, but it requires a good
look. >> I I would like the information. >> Yeah, everyone should get it. Of course, everyone should get it. Um, Mr. Councilman Kovia, >> I I kind of wasn't even finished. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize you weren't finished. Go ahead. And then
we'll get Mr. Kakoviac next. Go ahead. >> Oh, wow. Um, so again, that's the data that I would like to see so that we can make a decision. And I'd like to make the recommendation that we seriously look at whether or not this needs to continue. I I again, like I said, with a
lot of angst, I I use this as a selling point for our community. Um, but we need to make sure it's still making sense. >> Yeah. and some municipalities have outsourced it too. So we need to look at all those options. Mr. Din, Mr. Councilman Kovia,
>> thank you. Council President, has the administration conducted a competitive analysis of alternate costs and methods of commuting that we have to go up against?
We we did um one of the one of the CPAB member one of the members in the audience suggested about one of the uh the cost share. We we did look into that at one point. At the time we looked into it, it wasn't beneficial to us. It doesn't mean that we can't look into it again, especially in light of you know
what the council is discussing up here. But based on what the need was and the types of trips, um the the cost sharing rides would be beneficial probably to what we were talking about like the people who have medical issues, but the general commuter that wants to go from
point A to point B to the train, it wasn't a viable option. So, so I think if we wanted to reduce maybe some of our costs without eliminating the jity and incorporate something like the um I think it's fire whatever it's called um we did we did look into that and um you
know we can just readress it again if we need to but it's just at the time it didn't make it didn't make um sense for us to do it. >> Our transportation commission for the older adults has also looked at on demand. We've been looking at on demand trans transports too and then the need for it >> just just so we we're clear you know
these on demands for the the medical and and for the seniors that need it there is a charge. Yeah. >> So there there may be some other services that we can find that may be free but there are some that are a charge. We've even looked into a senior Uber type program. They have they have senior Uber programs where it's it's
more cost effective for the for the community. Uh >> Councilman. But to follow up, when I say competitive analysis, this is something that gets done just about every day in the private sector where you say, "I
have a product. I've got my cost base of one one and everybody else I'm competing against has to pay 10 to get the same service." So, I don't charge one, I charge seven or eight. That way I
undercut all of my competition and I make myself a much more competitive alternative than anything else that those people can do. That's what I'm talking about with a competitive analysis. So, has the administration conducted a competitive analysis to
determine what pricing flexibility uh or variability uh exists for this service? >> No. >> Thank you. >> Okay. We we need to do that. that has to be done. We have no idea whether we whether this is something that we can do
or not because we don't know what our competition is, >> right? And we >> we offer this thing for free. So, of course, there's there's a great deal of uh of variability or or attractiveness
to people because they get something for free. And not only that, but they let the other, you know, 40 or 40,000 people who live in town subsidize him. And we need to find out what our competitive positioning and what our pricing can be. That's that's what that's got to be
done. >> Thank you. Absolutely correct. Go ahead. >> Just wanted to um also share that the county does do rides for free for our seniors anywhere in Essex County that they need to go as long as they're a resident of Essex County. and that the
county also does the Uber um for seniors as well. So, that does support and assist our seniors, but I think we still have to address our commuters. And that's a separate while it's still the same thing, it's a completely separate
expense. And I and I would like us to move towards actually separating that if we can because until we can separate that out, we really can't eliminate it. Nice. >> Okay. So, we'll get started.
>> The county does help us out when we don't have availability. Um, but they won't take us on unless they come to us first because we have a transportation division. >> No, no, I'm suggesting if we did not >> Yeah. No, they definitely help us out.
We if we can't accommodate, we refer them to county and they're able to take care of it. >> Understand that county is limited in their resources, too. cannot the county cannot sustain West Lodge. >> Yeah. >> For for our senior services. >> There's there's times that we can't they can't help us. They're they're limited
in their resources, too, because because they do rely on us. So, if we if we eliminate eliminate ours, then they're going to have to increase theirs. >> Remember, I'm not talking about eliminating senior services. I'm talking about the reality of trying to figure out if we can sustain the jitney period,
whether it be for free or for fee. I unfortunately I'm looking at the cost the cost of gasoline is increasing with without you know anybody having to be able to control that. So we have to take a serious look at whether or not
the jity is sustainable for West Orange >> jitney commuter jity not sing I think had his hand up next. >> No I I do not I I said what needed to be said. So, so, so I have a
recommendation. Have we looked at the We have all those empty spaces at the dog park and the library. Why do like we have Mississippi um we pick up at Mississippi. It's one of our municipal parking lot. Why don't we have a stop at
one of those parking lots and eliminate a bus? I mean it if that's >> all the timing of the trains and then we have to we have to we have to estimate the timing of the trains between stops where we go and so if we go to we can go to the dog park >> but then we have to think about
eliminating another stop that may be more popular only because it it's it's a matter of getting people there in a timely we're making the trains within two three four minutes sometimes with each route because you got to take we don't know if there's going to be traffic on 280 we don't know valley road
or whatever whatever the case may be to the major stops and there are times where we get complaints because he's late I missed my train I had to catch it later we're sorry but we can't help it that there was a fire on certain street and we had to be rerouted so there's certain variables that are are difficult
for us so so while we can add the dog park >> no not not add it I would yes you would take you would take away a route and just have a group like there was at Livingston Mall in Livingston they would have people go park at Living
what you're saying, but we >> and and that would be the stop, one stop there and maybe Mississippi or whatever. So, you're not on the bus for an hour. I get all that. See, this is where you don't understand with the committee because I was in a couple meetings uh last year with the with the um Helen,
right? Helen, >> oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't be saying name. Argent. And >> and so all this what Mr. Smaldo is saying is all time sensitive. So to so it's great to have a lot of ideas and and feed them ideas from her committee
or whoever it the people that you need to get involved uh and has made suggestion are the people on that Jity app uh the few few of the residents that well there's there's a few people that have been instrumental in the timing and everything but anyway long story short
maybe moved to more general stops than you know pickups but all over town and again just so folks know who are watching. This all started many years ago from a huge grant that the township received from New Jersey Transit and
then it went away and the town's been subsidizing ever since. But again, to my colleagueu's point, being a realer um and and having real open houses that we've had with the PRC, I mean, people
move here for the service and and people are selling their homes for like a million dollars now. So, >> so the long your comment though, council woman, just please understand >> we do have the dog park available but and that would be free to people go to park but if they go to the county one we
have to have anou with the county we look at they're people are going to have to pay for the parking there so that's going to be a cost to somebody else so which is not our concern if they want to be picked up there you know we are concerned with providing the riders but other than that the the large parking
lots that we have are not readily available you know We have we may have we have an agreed >> library sits empty. >> I'm sorry. >> Library sits empty most of the time. >> But that's the dog park too. It's the same thing. So that's one stop. So you going to tell everybody to park there. We can do that.
>> Well, you reserve the spots for that. >> But you got to understand that there we're limited in space that we can do large commuter parking. You know, um we had looked at the metropolitan site. It's now going to be Trader Joe's. I don't think they're gonna want us to park there. you know, you um you have the down here in the valley, we have a a
parking lot. We could probably utilize that, but that gets crowded too with people during the daytime. So, we're limited on the on the amount of free spaces for people. So, so while we can look at that, I'm just telling you that when we could start creating stops like that, but we may be limited in scope in
the amount of space that we have available. >> No, I know it's not easy. I know this is going to be popular, but it looks like we need to really consider phasing out >> this expense. >> Well, we'll look at all the options. Um, okay. Can we move on? Hopefully.
>> Okay. So, >> yes. Um, before we move on, um, Mr. Smeralda, we I I wasn't able to get down all the the figures of of transportation. You said senior trips 1324. This is coming right out of the annual
report that's online, but I'll give you the figures. >> Okay. So, on >> Oh, this this I'm I'm reading off our annual report that's on the was posted on the website for 2025. So, the total number of senior citizens transported for from January 1 to
December 31st, 2025 was 1,324 >> individuals. >> Yes. >> And and then you had a different number for trips. number of trips. >> Okay. >> That number was 7,97. >> Okay. And then you had the same thing for Jitney. >> For the jitney. Yeah. Number number of
passengers was 80,691 and number of trips was 21,240. Okay. So, I'm a little confused for the seniors. I thought 1324 were those are individuals. You're never counting anybody twice. >> No, those number individuals
>> and the jity you're never counting anybody twice. It's 80,000 different individuals. >> No, no. >> No, no, no. Yeah. No. That that can't >> that's why I'm confused. You have to figure out how you
>> That's what I'm asking if you can just tell us how many people ride. >> Yeah, that's those numbers are our our drivers every day give us a number and they say, "Okay, my bus one had nine people at the 7 a.m.
>> 7:30 they had 10, but then 8:00 they had two." And then they have say okay so that whole route they had 22 passengers that route that day in the morning and then the evening the same whether they're the same person we don't we don't do that >> we're going to have to get them to >> that we would need a card scanning
system to identify >> wanting the people getting on there >> or some other way to find out >> but you are doing it for the seniors you are able to say that 13 24 senior >> because those are individual trips that are scheduled usually either for a grocery or or shopping trip or medical
medical or to or to you know other location >> think maybe think if there's some way we can register people who are using the journey I'm sure there's some way we could find it without spending $100,000 there might be some way to find out who's right I'm sure we can we just need to think outside the box
>> we're looking for it >> so we're not approving anything on that page we're going to move on into and and will we be getting some data before >> No I think we're still looking at the salaries Right. We were just having a very general conversation about omnibus.
>> No. >> Yeah. >> How do we improve sir? >> I'm I'm ready to ask questions about this page. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Go ahead. >> What page is this page? >> This is page 154. So these are the bus
driver uh salaries and wages. So, just want to ask a few questions about this. >> Yes. >> The base salary is projected to go up 21.5% this year. >> Correct. >> Um, >> why the increase?
>> So, the increase is due to the full-time employees that we have in the steps. So if someone is in the steps as we say they receive a COLA increase of 3% for 2026 and they also move up on their
salary guide. The other um increase is due to the creation of the position transportation analyst and that's that non-union position that we created via ordinance earlier this year and this was done uh in a way to
reduce the amount of overtime that the previous position was receiving because it was not uh it was uh non-exempt, >> right? And so now the budget shows a significant decrease in expected
overtime. >> Yeah, we still have overtime for some of for a couple of the other full-time positions. Uh mainly in that the interaction between when they work dispatch and work as a driver. So we're
still incurring some overtime there. We're doing our best to mitigate that. But our number one overtime driver from the prior year, we've mitigated that with the promotion I should say to transportation analyst.
>> Okay. So let's go down to the long. >> Yes. >> Because >> that is not long, that's hourly. That needs that that needs to be revised. That's that's the sum of the omnibus part-time. So that should say hourly. So, so this is another one of those
tests to see if anybody on the council is actually looking. Yes. Okay. >> Yes, you're correct. That that is that is the hourly for the omnibus drivers that are considered part-time. >> Um is hourly. >> There was no longevity in this
department. >> Um >> well, I started looking at they're covered by unions and I don't know the contracts in and out, but >> yeah, no, nobody has longevity. it would have been listed separately. So, our part-time drivers work hourly and the
way that I came up with the base salary numbers for them was based on their their hours worked in the prior year. >> Okay, thank you. That's all I have on this page. >> Question more clarity on that what that
meant. Hours worked in the previous year determines their base salary. >> It's it it's it determines the budgeted >> Yeah. amount for all the part-time drivers >> to figure it out. >> Okay. >> What's that? >> Yeah, you need you need a basis to
figure out. But but how can you cut back their overtime? How you said you mitigated some of it? Like are you doing staggered hours or you >> So the part- timerrs the part- timerrs do not generate overtime. Um we can manage their hours. the overtime was
being driven by full-time employees and it was related to dispatch coverage and then if a dispatcher had to drive. So the main driver of overtime, again I'm not using names, the main driver of overtime, we were able to promote into a
role that does not receive overtime. So that that mitigated tens of thousands of dollars of overtime. We still have two full-timers where they are overtime eligible and it and it does occur and we're doing our best and director Fonino has a better handle on day-to-day
operations, but we're doing our best to make sure that we have proper coverage for dispatch during the what is it 6 a.m. to 700 p.m. >> It's 6:00 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. and then um 6 p.m. >> Oh, so one person's out, the other one's
picking up over time to cover, >> right? And then sometimes the driver's out and then somebody's going from dispatch to driving. Um because our our dispatchers that are eligible for overtime are drivers can drive as well. >> But but question. So you have so many
drivers. I mean is it that often that they would have to drive? >> Well, I mean sometimes if somebody calls out sick or somebody, you know, they're >> are they going to themselves first or they going down a list? like is there a pecking order of the list that they need to go down for those?
>> The supervisor really is the one that coordinates who who's on the schedule. Um, but to John's point is what happens most of the time is like one of the the the supervisors are broken up into two
shifts, a morning and and an afternoon evening. But sometimes the morning person um is driving because we're short drivers and then then they come in and work their regular shift in the afternoon. >> So to answer I think to answer your question. So what we do is in the
morning if a driver calls out last minute we have to get somebody here within 15 minutes, half an hour or so. Sometimes our drivers don't live locally and they can't make that time and that's when the supervisor has to step up. They make every effort to get a a a part-timer in there first because they
have a second job in response. >> I appreciate that they could >> and that's and then what happens is the analyst will come in early to cover the dispatch, but we we try not to do that where we can because we that's why we're trying to get a bigger pool of drivers and close. But some we have a couple
part- timerrs that live an hour or so away. >> Wow. >> And they and this is a job for them to do because they have a local they may have their full-time job too. So, it's not always easy if it's easier for us to plan the overtime position in the evening because we have a little bit more time to schedule than we do in the
morning. >> And that's another problem I see as we begin to expand and we have all these apartments and we need more drivers. We're having a hard time getting drivers now. What about when our population grows in the next five years? We need to be looking at this at five years out. taking a strategic approach, a business
analysis, a businessminded approach to this problem. >> And to the business administrator's point, uh we have more flexibility in the evening. We can combine routes. So if we're down a driver, we don't have to pull in a driver, another driver on
overtime because we can combine routes. We can't combine routes in the morning. So makes it a little bit more challenging. >> Councilwoman, >> um I have a question. And I'm not certain if this is invasive of personnel matters, but I just wanted to understand how um the non-union position is at step
seven. So the decision to hire at step seven was based on previous total compensation and and and that decision was made to mitigate the OT. So yeah, that's thank
you. So, we're not consenting then. >> Okay. Any other questions, council members? >> So, you do not want to vote on this? No. >> Okay. Seb I think. >> Yes.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. So I think it's all relationship. And then this is the same thing as the other page. Page 156. So, uh, senior citizen transportation
program, again, the omnibus, um, I think we are going to actually end up renaming this to be, what did she say? Senior citizens/commuter shuttle transportation. So, we'll
probably end up renaming this section in a future budget document. Um but the ask now is is the same ask as the prior year. Um Director Fonino, do you want to just talk about Yeah, we didn't.
>> Can we take claiming supplies? >> I'd like Go ahead. >> I'd like to to let the department figure out how to spend this money, but reduce it by 1300. Give them $1,000. Nothing's been spent in years. The only thing
that's been spent in years is a little bit on office supplies. So I'd like to reduce this by300. >> I I if we did it to 1300 that's taking half. Why can't we just reduce it to a,000? It nothing has been spent.
>> I know. >> So let's just take it to $1,000. I mean >> that that would be taking it to $1,000. >> It's 2600. >> It's 23.97. This is >> Oh, that's what's left. Okay, you're right. So,
>> they they have spent 2,000. So, >> yeah, I'd like to reduce it to a,000. So, reduce it. Cut it by 1,600. >> To a,000. We don't have to figure out the math. Reduce it to a,000 cuz that sounds easy. Thank you. I move that. I just did that. I just I just made that
motion. >> I just made that motion >> and I'll second it. I have discussion. >> Okay. Go ahead. Council >> just real just question. You haven't spent money cleaning supplies. I I know you clean the buses. Like where
why wasn't anything spent last year on cleaning supplies? It's coming from somewhere. Does a company clean? Like >> we we Yeah, we have we have a company that is contractors that come in monthly. These cleaning supplies are for
the drivers to do, you know, incidental, you know, when when they wipe down the seat or the steering wheel or >> Okay. But obviously they're being bought from another line item because I I I I'm hoping everything's getting cleaned. >> Yeah. I I think I I think we we again I
think I mentioned this last year. We were working off of a stockpile of of cleaning supplies from CO and >> Yeah, I know. >> I think we might have exhausted that now. So, I think you'll see some some expenditures this year. >> Okay. All right. I I'm I'm I'm good to
take out a,000 >> down to a,000. >> Down to down to 1600. >> Okay. >> We can take that work. We'll make that work. We have to come back to something like that. We'll come back. >> Okay. >> We do have a cleaning service like we said because we realize the importance
of it. >> Yeah. >> But so we'll do it. Well, then can we take it to 500? >> Just just Yeah, let's make like to amend the motion and reduce it to 500. >> Let's Let's not be shopping for a new
Buick over here. Uh let's just get through this, please. >> Okay, let's go. >> So, are we taking a vote on the original motion and second? >> I don't have a second to bring it down. >> I don't have a second. We have Michelle second >> to bring it down to 500. >> Oh, no. No. To for the thousand. >> I'll second that motion. >> Thank you.
>> To bring it down to 500. Well, what happens with the first vote? >> No, no, no. I'm amending >> the motion. >> Okay. >> To take it to 500 instead of to reduce it to a,000. >> So, we need a voice vote on the motion to amend. >> Yes.
>> The original motion from $1,000 to $500. >> On this entire page is only going to be $500. It was seconded. >> And there was nothing spent last year. >> Your second. >> Yeah. I I would like to hear from the administration on on the difference between a,000 and 500. Yeah, get
>> I I don't see any reason not to reduce it to 500, but I'd like to hear >> if they have if they need it. Let's hear it. >> With all due respect, I >> Yes. >> My plan this year was to get all the drivers uniforms. I don't think I'm
going to be able to do that with $500. >> Line items for uniforms. Then you got to ask for uniforms, not >> Yeah. >> Well, no, he he did. We we we didn't get into it. Um, we we would like to use uh line 040. We don't do license renewals
anymore. >> Um, >> uniforms. >> We change that to uniforms. >> Okay. >> So then I I'm going to resend because now you have justified >> Thank you. >> why we can't bring it down to 500. >> Well, I need Councilman Koviaak.
>> I resend as well. As well, >> but I would like to do the amendment to reduce it. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. What does he need for you? No, he just said 800. >> $800. Yeah, >> it's not a,000. >> So, it's not a,000. It's gonna go down to my amendment to take it down to $800.
>> All right. 800. It is a second. >> You have to. We already spent $22. If you could leave a,000 leave a,000. >> Stop. >> Okay. >> A,000 is still the original motion on the table. >> That is There we go. >> Yes, it was.
>> So, let's do it. >> Moving right along, Madam Cler. Line 40 is going to get changed to uniforms and then the first amendment first motion stays with the thousand. >> Reduce the whole page to a thousand. >> Okay. Was the uh amendment was the
uniform part of the amendment naming that line? >> I think the director stipulated to that fact. So, >> right. But I just want motion to reduce the budget to $1,000 total. >> Right. That's what I need to know. >> All right. Uh Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes.
>> Councilman Koviaak. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scorp. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Do I hear? >> Oh man. >> You're trying to help everybody not have
to pay the tax increase. That's what it's gonna say. >> I I know. But we got it. >> Good God. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then consent on the page if there's
>> be cleaning the page because could we consent on or you got to give us a new sheet for us to consent? >> No, it's going to be that's fine. >> He's going to fix it. >> Well, no consent on this page. >> I thought you would be quick to consent.
>> You you can you can consent to as amended. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Consent as amended. >> As amended. Okay. Second. And the only amendment that we made was >> I know >> to reduce the entire >> I'll be rewroing it when I'm doing my minutes. I'm like
>> no problem. >> Yeah, I I got it. But okay, >> I have a consent. >> Consent. So consent as amended and everyone's in favor. Correct. >> Oh, I can. >> You want to take a break then? Is we're
at the halfway point? >> Yes. motion. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> We recess for five minutes. >> I'll make I'll make a motion to recess for five. >> Second. All in favor?
>> Any opposed? Okay. >> Joe. >> Yeah. >> Want to make an announcement? Thanks. Taking a five minute. >> Okay. >> After these messages, we'll be right back.
>> Remember Zack from panel seven. >> Oh yeah. Two. Two. Two. Where's Pete? Where's Pete? Two. Make it three. >> Joe, do you want one? Make it three. Uh to those in the Zoom audience, we'll be taking a short break and uh the audio
will be on mute. Thank you for your patience. Thank you for your patience to all those in the Zoom audience. We are ready to resume the meeting and at this time I'd like to turn the floor over to Council President. >> Okay, great. Thank welcome back everyone. We are moving fast and
furiously tonight. So, um with that, Mr. Datinia. >> Thank um we're going to move to uh animal control salaries and wages. This is page 158. So the the ask this year is for an
increase in the base salary of $21,234 and the increase is due to uh it was a step and cola increase for both employees. But I'm gonna turn it over to Director Fonino to speak about sort of changes in personnel that have occurred
in the last couple weeks. >> Yeah. So, um we had a uh a resignation one of the animal assistant animal control positions and we've since filled it um part-time for right now um with
the intent to uh fill it full-time. Um, and when we do, uh, we, you know, we we want to, this employee that we hired, um, you know, there's a period of time that we want to evaluate and make sure that they're a good match for the
department. >> Budget then, because if we don't have anybody that we have to hire, have the >> RFQ already gone out for the position? So, we've hired a part-timer right now and we're paying an hourly rate at uh
how many hours? 28 hours a week. >> 28 is 72,73. >> They want to turn into a full-time. >> No. >> So, I I just I don't know what the breakage is going to be right now. I'd
have to sit down and and look at it. Um because I don't know when the intention is to hire if it's going to be this year. Um >> we have to have that position. What what's >> I mean for a part-time can we keep it
part-time? >> It it's also I'm going to be completely honest. It's it's going to be very challenging to to keep track of because we're we can only pay this person 28 hours a week. I so we have two two animal control officers that alternate
the on call. So one is on call one week and the other is on on the the next week. So with the part-time person, it's going to be pretty challenging to manage those hours. Um so I really do >> so >> want to continue with the two full-time. >> I know we want to but we're looking at
trying to reduce the budget. >> Yeah, but mind you, we're providing services to to other municipalities for animal control. So, we're getting revenue for that. >> Mhm. >> Plus, we're getting revenue from North Cwell for sheltering services. >> Do we have the revenue accounted for? Where is the that revenue accounted for?
>> We take that in as miscellaneous revenue, not anticipated. Um, simply because I don't know >> much >> how much, you know, sheltering services we're going to to utilize or that North Cwell is going to utilize. I don't know how many pickups you're going to do in
Rosland. Well, we did like five um we should know >> five. We only had five. I don't know what the terminology is, but we only did five rescues or five. >> No, no, no. North call, we're we're we provide it's a small contract. We
provide space for in our animal shelter if they need it. >> Okay. >> The Burrow of Roseland and the Burrow of Essex Fels, we're actually providing animal control services. So, our animal control officers are are providing that service for them.
>> But in 2025, how many calls did we have to those burrows? >> Um, I don't have that in front of me, but I could certainly get it for you. >> This is another thing I'd love us to quantify exactly how much revenue we're getting from this and what the costs are. >> We know how much the contract is.
>> Yeah. >> No, but how much you want to list out what we get from Rosane spending in other municipalities? you. Yeah, I think we got all this information when we went to approve these contracts, right? >> We we we Yeah, we >> But it's only like five. >> It's not that much. It's not that much
money. >> No, I'm not talking about how much we make. I'm trying to get back to why we can't reduce the part-time salary and maintain a part-time salary. If we're only going out and doing five, >> it's not just that. It's we have an
animal shelter that has to be addressed seven days a week because we have animals in there. So somebody has to go there to physically take care of these animals twice a day. >> The only that's not the only that's part of the responsibility of responsibility of the person. So they they they not only do animal control out in the street, they also maintain the animal
shelter and maintain the animals that are in the shelter. And they got to go twice a day to feed uh clean and and do whatever they have to do to to take care of the animals. So that's a that's a seven day a week operation. >> And then we also have volunteers that go there as well. Correct. >> Yeah. But I don't know how many I don't
know how many hours that we have. Um and there's it's very limited. The last time we checked you you know more about that. How many volunteers? >> The volunteers um are not consistent. Um but they we do have them. They come in from time to time but they're limited in what they can do too. They're you know
handling of the animals has to be you know supervised by one of the animal control officers. >> They can't just come in and say hey I'm going to walk dogs. We have to have somebody there who's certified to supervise. >> Councilwoman Ruden, just you had some questions.
>> Um, I I actually just really want to put out my thoughts on this. I am familiar with the shelter and I'm sorry to say that I find it extraordinarily depressing and um I don't think that we
are able to offer the best service as we are not really a shelter. We are called an animal control. We do not meet the needs of a shelter and if anybody has seen what the conditions on on are there it is absolutely heartbreaking. I think that this is a perfect opportunity with
the with the um I guess leaving uh departure of of one of the assistant animal control officers to stop this animal control in entirely in Yes. and to consider a shared service
with another municipality. This is a lot of money that we're paying and I don't think that this is the best service that we we are providing to these animals. I know that we have shared services with with two other municipalities, actually three. We get very little back from
that. Um and I know it it it it adds value because we have some sort of shared service with them. But frankly, this is something I think that the municipality can do without. It does not speak well of our caring for animals the way this is being run.
>> Mr. >> First of all, we're required by law to have an animal control division. So whether it's through the health department, the police department, we have to have it. So how
does that how does that comport with the fact that Rosland Essex fells and Caldwell you could yes you could could sum it out >> right so that is what I would like to suggest the direct the other thing that I wanted to say is that we the placement
of the animal control facility really doesn't even work for our township it is an in an area where everything around it is toxic I know that this building has been tested for asbestous I never got the report back on whether or not it has
asbestous. Um, it does not allow for visitation from our residents because our residents don't even know it's there. I do feel that if we do have this, we need to have two people because the job is is demanding and we need to take care of these these animals, but
this is not the best that we can do. And I'd like to to suggest that we move to shared services. >> How feasible is that? Counciloman, I we've looked into um a service to to do the to do the job. It's going to cost a
lot more money and that the residents are not going to get the same level of service. You know, for example, they could take up to three days to respond to a non-emergency complaint. So, like when when somebody calls and says, "I have a dead deer in my backyard. I need
it removed." We're there the same day we go at a service. It could be up to three days for them to get out. And >> that I am okay with. I understand we have we have dead animals that we need to pick up and care for. What I'm not okay with is having a full-time animal
control housing and and the way that we are the I know that you're doing the best that you can, but frankly, it's a very sad situation and it's a very expensive situation. And I think the animals could be cared for better in another in
another place. So I would be in favor of keeping somebody on on board for animal, you know, to pick up dead animals, but not for the rest of >> So you're looking you're you're speaking about the sheltering part, not animal control. Yes, I am.
>> So So we we have been investigating a possible partnership with, you know, one of the local veterinarians offices. So it's something we're exploring. um as an option but you know it's it's a process and but we are looking into it.
The other thing is there is no asbestous for the record in the animal shelter. Animal shelter was built in 1995. Asbestous was banned in the early 80s >> and we had the other thing is we had um we had it recently tested for radon.
It's within it's within the limits that it needs to be. So I am not aware of anything toxic there. I'm not aware of any other testing that has been done there. So as to say that it's not a safe environment for the animals, I disagree. >> No, no, I said I did not have the
information. I had requested the information. I'm glad to hear that there I'm finally getting an answer. >> That's not true. We reported last year in the same meeting. We told you the same thing with the building that this was not built. This cannot happen. We told you that last year when we built this thing that that I'll go back and
listen to that. What I remember hearing last year is that is that there was there was no answer to that. But if I'm if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I apologize. But >> um yes, I am. I just want to clarify that we have an animal control. We do
not have a shelter. People in our town think this is a shelter. This is not. We don't have animal runs. We we have cats that have no access to to daylight 24 hours a day. They're in in inside rooms. The dogs don't have enough space.
They're literally in cages. I think we have to aggressively move in terms of a sh a shared a uh arrangement. >> Counciloman Caselina, >> you sorry. I thought I'm done. >> Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. >> I'm sorry.
>> Go ahead. >> All right. So, what I love about these meetings is that we do have these conversations. The part that I don't love about them, they should be happening during the year. Like this is like the 12th hour to get
the budget done. So we do, you know, we talked about this last year. It was noted that um there wasn't any asbestous last year. However, what also was we talked about
when moving the shelter is that we have redevelopment plan that we're still up in the air with and that's part of this whole puzzle of all the things we need to get done. So, I agree with you that something should get moved. I'm not sure having the three other contracts until
they expire, which is what the end of the year under termination. >> Um I think I believe the North Call one is annual. the the others um then there may be a I know one is up SXL's I think is up or renewal will be
before you see >> yeah on supportive of doing something different but like tonight's not the time to have that conversation and it has to be followed up during the year >> and we need to get this budget done so I recommend that >> um >> we move on like I I'll make a motion to
consent to this page I I just I I feel that because we had a retiree and now we are down and now we're building back up. This is the time to move forward with with real change. >> But but then the recommendation should be as councilwoman noted then maybe do
we stick with the part-time person for a while. So let me ask the director this the is the part-time person expecting to get hired full-time because in the beginning of this conversation I was hearing you were seeing how this person worked out. So, is this person expecting
it a higher uh full-time or can you uh utilize this person part-time for the next couple months till we see if anything happens with redevelopment? >> No, I mean the idea is to is to hire them hire or full-time. I'm sorry. But the your part-time person that you
employ now, >> you say you just got a part-time person. The person's expectation is that they would be moving to a full-time position >> if they if they meet the standard. Yes. >> Okay. So, that was >> Yeah, it's like a probationary period.
>> Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's what I heard in the beginning of this conversation. >> Okay. So, you don't you So, you wouldn't you're not supportive of of the part-time kids? >> I just think that the level of service will will be different to that the residents have
come to expect here. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Okay. So, I I agree with my uh colleague that we have we should be having these conversations during the year, but frankly, I don't know when when we can. So, we end up having them right here.
And we are we are at a turning point. What I would suggest is that we bring on this person full-time right now because I don't know how you do this with a person and a half. This town is used to having two people who are working full-time. The animals need it right
now, but that we specify that this is going to phase out within 3 months so that you have time to plan and find some other arrangements and not to renew the contracts with the outside entities that are that are using our services.
Um, >> yes, Council. >> I just wanted to remind my colleagues that the director said that this person is part-time with a probationary period to make sure that they work out. I don't
understand why we be hiring someone that we aren't comfortable with or know if they're going to work out to full-time to paying benefits without doing a probationary period. all of our if they're not union employees should be
probationary because if the relationship doesn't work then you can't get rid of them. So I would I would not like to see this person immediately hired um for full-time. I would like the director to be able to again run his department
the way he sees operationally efficient and if this person works out whatever that probationary period it is then they merge into the full-time role. I think that um the concerns that we have with the facility are legitimate, but again,
it's no different when we complain that the community isn't aware of what we're doing. This immediate phasing out and not giving the public an opportunity to understand what we're recommending, we have to move away from that. If we're
going to phase out the animal control facility, then we have to do that on a timetable and a schedule to let people know. We just can't sit here and make rash decisions about I'd like to see this done immediately. We don't run the department.
We make the recommendations. We utilize and review the budget, but we have to let our employees run their departments. And we also have to let residents know if we're going to make those type of substantial changes that it's going to be a phase out. You just don't stop it
immediately. That's not operationally efficient. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> I was not I was not speaking about hiring a full-time employee with benefits over a long period of time. I was suggesting that obviously this person needs to be um supervised and
evaluated but we do need somebody in right now because somebody is gone. So right now we have this situation we should be putting that person in temp in on on parole I guess until we figure out what to do with this. But I don't know
>> parole excuse me what's the word? >> Probation. >> Probation. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. um on on probation, you know, obviously, but you know, this this is very much within
the council's um bailey wick to decide how our money is going to be spent and whether or not to maintain a department as you've been discussing, whether or not you're you're thinking of eliminating the jity or whatever. This is our purview to decide whether or not
this service should continue for the township. Once we decide whether or not to have it, it is the director's decision to to figure out how that money should be spent. >> So, do you have support for that recommendation? Because if you don't, then we can move on.
>> I don't know. I don't know. I'm bringing >> I think it's a valid concern and I think we have to look at it. I think we have to look toward Mr. Fonzino to see how feasible it is to get a shared service agreement to look at when our contracts are up. I mean, there's a lot of things that we'd need to look at and get some
answers to before we can make a decision on something like this. From my from what I can my perspective, there are business decisions that need to be made. the things that we just said. >> Yeah, we can't >> and and I think it's important that we look at it now and because now is the time to plan
and and I think it's she's got uh Councilwoman Ruden has a valid point about whether this is something we need to be spending money on. I think you know better than we do than I do about the need and what the options are, but maybe this is something that should be outsourced. Well, like I said, we are
we're in terms of the facility part, we are looking into that because as somebody indicated is in the redevelopment zone. So eventually we're going to have to >> Yeah. >> So we have been exploring those options and we'll continue to exploit. >> And between this and the dog park, we're
losing a lot of money. >> How are we losing money on the dog park? >> We're paying for maintenance of it. >> How are we losing money on the dog park? >> Because it's costing us a lot of money in maintenance. >> Not that much. Not. >> Yes. Yes, it is. Yes, it is.
>> It's adding up. >> Yeah, but it's >> No. No. >> Every park needs to be maintained. >> Yes. >> We're losing money on every park. >> A park that nobody uses, even the dogs. Okay.
>> Um, so do we want to hear from Cabband at this point? >> Yeah, sure. And it's Okay, come on up. Okay, this is not um on the topic of whether we keep or not keep the um the
facility, the animal control. Um but two thoughts. If we have a part-time person now, um, if we keep the service, if we have one part- timerr, would it help with your scheduling and costs to
have two part-time people instead of the full-time person who just left? >> It's one thing to consider. Another thing is to a reminder that the SBA has said if you're going to replace
employees, please consider hiring them at a lower salary level than the person who just left. >> Those are >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, so my response to that would be yes, you could
do you could make them part-time, but again, the level of service is going to change tremendously >> with a part time. Why >> if you have two two part- timerrs? >> Yeah. Why? >> No, I I think what they're saying is you would maintain the one full-timer and
have two part-time instead of hiring one full-time. >> Am I correct? >> I misunderstood the correct. >> Okay. And and that way with a part-timer, we're not paying benefits. >> Exactly. >> With with a part- timerr, we're not paying >> so many hours. >> Right.
>> Yeah. And if you're going to phase it out, I mean, who would want to take a position if you're going to phase it out in three to six months? >> You can't phase out animal control officers. They're they're required to be in each town. >> How many? >> Whatever it takes. Whatever it takes.
>> We could do a shared service though, right? and >> or you can do a shared service fees. You can't just get rid of it. >> Yeah, that's what we want to look at. >> You're gonna have to pay either way. So whether you're paying through a shared service agreement or you're paying the employee paying the person as an employee, you're going to have
>> they look at that in terms of the cost. >> He said he has already he said it five times. >> Okay. They're already looking because they know the facility. >> Nobody wants to take us on it. I'll tell you that right now. Nobody wants to take us on it. Is >> Is there ju just out of curiosity? And
it doesn't even matter cuz that's your job. >> Yeah. Ask questions. >> It doesn't No, it doesn't matter. >> No, you're the expert. >> You're the expert. >> I just, you know, it's we we've looked at it and >> it's fine. We can move on. It's fine.
>> Certainly, wherever we could save, we'll say that's way. And I'm trying to make sure this is a good match before we invest. But I I would like to make the recommendation that we hire if you're if you're looking to fill that with a full-time position. I I would like to make the recommendation that we look to
hire two >> two part time >> part-time people, not another full-time person to assist with that. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> We can look at it if if we can get, you know, it's not easy to get people in that way, but we could sort of get it. >> Absolutely.
>> We can advertise. Yeah. to date, how much um has been paid for the one full-time the one full-time employee that that has Okay, so that's how much you've paid
for. Oh, I see for for the person who left. Okay, so that is 26 26,215 has been paid. Correct. >> That's on the temporary. >> Yeah. So we've had two payrolls since
then. >> Okay. Person that left. >> What is the total? >> Did they receive anything? Yeah. So they they got payroll nine. >> So you >> So about 30,000. >> Yeah. Close to that. Yeah. >> Okay. And you're talking about part-
timerrs. >> You already have the part time. >> We have a part-timer working 28 hours a week, >> right? at a rate of 31. >> Okay. So that's 37. That's basically >> Do you have to be licensed?
>> You do. You have to be certified with the state of New Jersey. Yeah. >> And what is that certification require? >> Um it's a it's a class and a a field training and an exam state exam. >> That would be a wonderful job for somebody just graduating high school
that doesn't want to go to college. for somebody in college who needs a part time. >> Someone in college who needs a part job. Maybe we should reach out to Monontlair. >> Someone count. >> How many How many um weeks are left at You're talking about 12
uh 1300 1300 a week if we have two part- timerrs? Correct. And how many weeks are left >> in the year? >> 20. a year is one/ird passed at April I mean
at April 31st. So >> yeah. So >> two >> if you had two part- timerrs working that same number of hours. Now I don't know if you had two part- timerrs would you have them both working 28 or is it now split? >> So I I don't know the answer to that question. Um
>> we can't do the math right now but we still know that it's cheaper to hire a partner. >> But we need to do the math. >> So so somebody making This rate at 28 hours a week makes like $45,000.
>> I understand. But we just making we have to prorrate that for the rest of the the rest of the year. >> So if you took onethird of it, >> yes, because we've allocated 72 and we will not hit that number. And if you're
talking about even if we allow this to continue till the end of the year until till we figure out what to do, we It's it's not it's not the same because it's it's we don't have the entire year. Do you need the
>> I would need to do the math if we can come back to it. >> Yeah. Table it. >> Let's do that. >> Thank you. >> Just cuz just just because I would need to do both scenarios of, you know, two part- timerrs, I'd need to know how many hours is it going to be 28 for each person? Is it a reduced amount for for
each person? And then if it's one person and you want to hire them, what date are you hiring them? What step are you hiring them at? So, If you have a person that you're already doing 28 hours, you wouldn't automatically just tell them even if you wanted, you're not going to say, "I'm going to reduce your hours to 20 hours."
>> No. No. >> So, they would stay at 28 hours, whoever is at 28 hours, and then you would have to make the adjustment with the other part-time person. Right. >> Okay. >> So, they have to factor in like overtime. Like, it's all >> Yeah. I I I That's why I'm trying to
figure out why we're trying to do your math. I I don't Let's move on. >> Okay. Let's move along. >> So, we're going to revisit that page. >> Yeah. >> Okay. No consent. No consent >> for you. >> All right. What does it make sense?
>> It's only seven o'c. So, may I suggest because I probably think we're going to go through the same exercise we did on the other pages. Do you want to just cut it to a certain number and let the director figure out? >> What we should done from the beginning? >> So,
this why this is this morning. >> Good. This is what we got to do >> this part to do new way of thinking. >> So, are we done with animal control? >> Yes. We're not consent. >> Okay. And that's page 160.
>> The >> the the salary should be cut by at least 6,000. >> Um >> Oh. Uh you talking about animal control? This this section here? >> Yeah. I >> at least
>> I'll do the math. I don't want to just say 6,000 and I haven't done the math, but >> let them do the math. I'll take that into consideration. >> Yeah, thank you. >> I just want to be able to come back and say I I did a calculation. >> Absolutely. We want to do it right
>> for you, but I'm sure your math is is probably correct. >> Um, so this is the animal control OE budget. Um, it's the ask is $2,184. Same as last year. We spent $1,625
last year. Now, a lot of the animal control and shelter operations come directly from the trust. And the trust is funded by partly by our our shared service agreements and and also by the
sale of the dog and cat tags um that we do on an annual basis. Um, so it's largely subsidized by dog and cat owners and uh >> percent sub >> the majority of it I I think this
taxpayers probably pay about 10% maybe 8% of the total operation. >> Are you going to >> Why can't it be 100% covered? Because we have we have uh $66,000 in the trust fund right now. And this is
Yeah. So have it have it all be >> I don't want to take everything out. >> Why not? >> We do. >> Yes, we do. >> We want everything to pay for itself cuz you got to leave a dollar in just in case. >> Okay. We'll leave a dollar. We'll leave. How much you have all together?
>> I mean, are you making a >> So I make a motion to reduce this this budget to a dollar. >> $66,000. And you can't you can't spend two grand on on uh >> so you're I'm sorry. Did you make your motion? >> Yes. I made a motion to reduce this
animal control budget to a dollar. >> Second >> on page. You already spent 211. >> Okay. So we need to get >> Okay. Okay. >> Just so you know, you got to >> leave it at five. >> No trust fund with $66,000.
What are you talking about? Aren't you buying yourself a a part-time person there? >> You know, trust fun. >> Don't control the act. Go ahead. >> I Before we do this, I'd like to hear from the administration. We're still
regardless of the source of the payment, we're still looking at a budget question. How much should they be spending? And I also am not in favor of spending down our trust fund to a dollar. That's just not >> No, no, no.
>> That's not prudent financial management. >> Yes, >> that I was not suggesting that we leave our trust fund at a dollar. I was saying that these expenses that are in animal control be paid for by the trust fund.
>> It will be cutting cutting the 2,000. We'll still have $64,000 in the trust fund and we'll be getting money in every year as people have to renew their animal licenses. >> That should be >> Oh, is there any more discussion on this? >> No, I'm good. I think
>> I still want to know what it's being reduced to because >> $1. >> $1, >> but you're already spent. I thought >> No, he's going to move it to the trust. >> We can reallocate trust through the inner fund and >> so to $1. >> Yes. >> I just have and who that was it. Thank
you. >> One quick question. What are you spending the trust money on? >> Um, the trust pays for a bunch of different things. Vet. >> Vet bills. Supplies for the shelter. Um, some of the equipment. Um,
>> what do you usually pull out of it each year? >> Um, I don't thousands of dollars. Mostly the vet bills. It's mostly Yeah, it's the vet bills. It's
>> quantify that it would have to buy >> spending $2,000 is fine. >> Yeah. >> Councilman Koviac had his hand up. >> Yeah. The I >> I'm not sure that that >> your microphone >> people can't hear me.
>> They may hear you, but when they watch the video if you're far away, it's >> not good. >> Okay. We are here on a page to determine how much the council is approving of the administration to spend.
I don't see that that's a question that we are addressing here. We were starting to address the numbers up on the screen, but all of the sudden we went to we'll just pay for it from the money tree or the trust fund. We still need to
determine, I think, as a council, correct me if I'm wrong, how much we want the administration to spend on this page. We are not talking about that. So, if we leave this at a dollar, then they
could very easily, you know, spend5 or $10,000, right? We we're here to oversee the spending. So just putting in a dollar doesn't work for me. So >> council woman.
>> So then can you clarify because who determines how the trust fund gets spent when and why and how much? >> So the trust fund what can be spent out of it is dictated by the dedication by rider. Um that's on the commonly
approved dedication by rider set forth by the state in New Jersey. Animal control is one of them. Um, and the animal control the what you can spend out of it is dictated by what you collect. So if we don't have the the funds to spend, we
can't spend it. It's unlike taxation where we have a budget amount and it's like theoretically funded by by taxes, miscellaneous revenues. It's cash in and cash out in the animal control trust. So what we generate from selling the dog tags that we don't turn over to the
state of New Jersey and what we generate portions of what we generate from Rosland Essex Fels and and North Cwell are deposited in that trust and are the basis then for what we can expend. >> So do we collect at least $2,000 that we
can actually take from the trust? >> We collect a lot more than that. Yeah. In the trust. Yeah. this year in this year's budget, it would not be um a problem for us to zero this out as we've done to $1 rather $1 it and take the
money from the trust fund. That's what the trust fund should be utilized for. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Exactly. >> Yes. However, um >> to take this vote and move on. >> Well, however though, Councilman Kakovic has a point. We need to be analyzing our costs. So, no matter where we're taking it from, we need to look at what we're
spending. It's done, >> right? >> It's going to be >> I think that's what he's looking for on this page to just just >> So, what line item do you want? >> Councilman Ruden, >> this the um we've only spent $211 this
year. Do you want to go through it line by line? >> No, I do not. >> Okay. So, so >> you just want it all reduced down to $1? >> Yes. >> Yeah. And we want to quantify the spending, Nick. So to quantify the spending, we would have to give you a record of what we've spent out of the
trust. Exactly. >> Not so much here. >> Correct. >> Um but the question is what is this body's >> mission right now? And it's it's looking at the current funds. So >> yes, got to get the bled, >> but we can provide the trust so we can
break down the cost of animal control that is separate from just the small amount that we're asking the taxpayers for. I think that's you looking for the total spend on animal control and what it is. Correct. >> Yeah. It's it's the bigger issue of financial controls. That's why you're
here. >> Exactly. >> To enforce financial controls so that we know what we're going to spend on before we spend on it. I know there are emergency situations. This is not an emergency situation. Right. Right. So, the question for me is, do does the
council want to spend or give you the authority to spend $1,000, $500, uh, $357? >> That's what it appears that we're not talking about, that we provide oversight on financial controls, so we have a
pretty good idea of what we're spending. That's all I'm saying. That's all. >> Councilman Ruden. >> Yes. Um, in the trust fund, can any of that be used to help offset salaries for part-time workers? >> You we utilize uh some of the trust fund
to offset I think we put 15 thou 17,000 in >> 17,000 >> to offset salaries and wages. Yes, we cannot pay for the entire >> right. But can we use some of that for this part-time worker now? >> Well, it it's 17,000 goes against
salaries and wages, whatever it is. So, it's full-time >> overtime. It just offsets the what we ask for the taxpayers. I cannot fund the two employees, >> right, >> purely from the trust. We don't generate that much. >> How much how much do we generate by um
charging for dog tags and and cat tags? >> We'll have to pull together. I think in total we generate about 35 to $40,000 with everything >> per year. >> Yeah. So why can't we request more of an
offset more than $17,000 for an offset? >> Because again, we're also charging OE to the trust. Like the shelter operations and animal control operations are much more expensive than $2,100. We're just we've
always charged that to the trust, >> right? But even after you're paying for the food and the the vet, there's still this amount of money in the trust. So why can't we this year ask for more money to help,
>> right? >> Okay, you can, but >> let's do it. >> And and there's still plenty of money for food for the rest of the year. And you'll be bringing in more revenue once you do the dog tags and can Okay. So then um >> can we can we
Wait, do we have a motion on the floor right now? So, let's vote on the first motion to reduce. >> And I don't think we're we're not going to vote on salaries and wages tonight because we said we'd have to go back and >> so first motion is to reduce it to a
dollar and to to have all of the um costs be reduce >> reduce it to a dollar. They'll they'll figure out the rest and Okay. I was already did. >> That's right. >> All right. Councilwoman Castleino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak,
>> no. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarlet, the motion carry. Was >> you'd like to make a second? >> I'm sorry. I have one second just because I I do want to address Councilman Koviaak's question, which I don't think I've truly answered. And I I
think that the the question really is can the council control the spending even if it's in the trust like it doesn't you know if it's coming from a different source um you know my personal opinion is that in this venue no you
can't when you do the bill list you can control that but I do want to look into it more and and and see if something is allocated to a trust and it's not necessarily part of the budget it what is the the council's role in
determining you know this the spending on that? So I will look into that. I will ask you know my guild and I don't know if if if Scott's going to have an answer on that. Um but I will look into it and and definitely we will get back to you uh about what is your control
when it comes to spending from other funds. Yeah. I mean, my understanding, if if I'm being asked is that, you know, the the the council votes on control over expenses. Um, my my thought as I sit here is to say that, okay, well, let's
reduce this to $1, but then allow them to just pay for everything out of the trust fund doesn't put any control on how much they're spending out of the trust fund. experience. >> Um, >> which is a good move. >> No, not that I'm saying you are, but but technically it's it's a blank check for rather than having a controlled budget
and approving each line item um as you're being estive. >> Now, we'll see if Scott comes back to the next hearing after that answer. >> If you wanted to take money out of open space fund, that had to come to us for approval.
every every expenditure comes to the the governing body in terms of the bill list but >> we also are are limited in what we can charge the open space based on you know the charter upon which it was enacted and same thing with animal control I
can't go buy a police car out of animal control I can only pay for animal control operations and I can only pay what is in cash in that account um but I understand >> the I understand the councilman's point
about so maybe we need to give you the spend so you feel more comfortable about total spend in animal control so you know exactly what we're doing with it and we'll do that we'll give you the the trust run >> whether we even need it. We need to understand what the cost structure is.
>> I think you need it. I think you have to have it. I think the the question is is can we do it in a better way, a cheaper way? Can we have a different shelter? Um, and I think you know, director Fonino did address some of that. >> Yeah.
>> Um, I like your point and, um, wouldn't the way to do this so that the council has control be to increase the the offset, trust offset, and to create line items in here so that we can actually see Yes. what's going on in terms of spending?
>> We'd like to. Is that is that >> you're just to date? >> No, I'm not going to agree to any of that because I I don't want to say that you have control over every single little thing when when and then take control away from the administration
that by whatever Faulner Act law gives them control of that. So I don't want to just say yeah you you can have control over it. I think what I'll give you is the spend on the trust and then you can do with it as you will. >> Thank you.
So, I'd like to We have $66,000 right now. Is that before or after the 17 is taken the off? >> That's before That's before. >> That's before. Okay. >> Yeah. Cuz we we we don't take it until
the budget is adopted. >> Okay. So, um I'd like to suggest to have discussion on taking another 10,000. I think when we come back with with a pro-rated salary amount if you want to bring that up and we'll give you the
trust um expenditures so that you have a clear picture of animal control in total. >> Good point council. >> So so I hear you on that. The only thing I want them to think about is if we do
this move and we are going to move the shelter. Um, do you need any of that trust money to offset that move in regards to it out for >> Yeah, I don't know what that entails. I don't you know if if if we did a sheriff
service within a municipality which I >> what happened this year >> I actually did have that conversation with Mr. Fonzino, I think yesterday or today or the other day about a potential shared service. Um, or if we go with a private vet and they
need a buildout, you know, we'd have to structure some sort of lease with a routing to leave some money. >> So, I don't know. I I really don't know. It would be amazing to have something be just plugandplay and we wouldn't have to spend. But I I just don't know because I
don't know what we're going to do. >> That was actually my question. Is there even a vet facility in West Orange that can accommodate this without a buildout? And so well that was going to be my question when I said look I'm not the director.
I'm going to let him and you guys figure that out because again that's not our role. We shouldn't be telling you how to transition the department. That's your role. So that's why I said it doesn't even matter and we don't know. So we
can't encumber the funds because the future is not told. >> No, you may need that down the road. That's >> absolutely. That's what we're saying. >> And there's legal hurdles there. You know, if we were to >> to bond money and, you know, we're we're doing improvements on somebody else's
property. Uh that's yeah. >> So >> unless we have a long-term agreement with that person. So but again that's you guys to figure out and bring it back to us and >> which we're actively looking. We know that we have redevelopment. We know that we may be vacating. So we have we are
planning for the future. We have to do that. So we need we need some kind of capital reserve just in case and maybe come to the trust >> or maybe come back to you. >> That's why that's why I mentioned >> good question. Good question. No time. So, are we >> fine on this page? Are we consenting on
this page for the reduction of a dollar? >> Yes, we're consent. >> Just for the council's edification, um it's it's a chapter 10-4 talks about the trust fund. If anyone wants to look at that in the interim, >> did you send it to us?
>> I could circulate that tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Well, it's in it's in our code. We'll see. Oh. I didn't realize it was on >> some state. No, our own. >> What do they call it? Animal show.
>> Animal control on senior senior health. >> Yeah. Okay. So, yes, Councilman Croiac, >> if we're ready to talk about this page, I think >> Okay. >> I think Mr. Diniac has left another Easter egg here. I'm unchecked to see if
any of us are reading the >> Let's have it. I did, but I >> budget document. >> So, does anybody see the Easter egg >> for longer than 2023, though? >> I'm sorry. >> That staff member has been here longer than >> So,
um, >> no, but but for the longevity, >> Councilman Kovac definitely does homework. He reviews everything and and what he's referring to is is the longevity line. So, just just to give everyone um
you know why that's there is we had a longtime employee that retired. >> Yeah. >> That had longevity. So that that expended is is the right amount for longevity. There's supposed to be a line below it that says hourly and the budget
would be for hourly. $15,000. >> It's accurate. >> So longevity expended is accurate. We're not requesting 15,000 for longevity for 2026. We're requesting 15,000 for hourly for a part-timer. >> Yeah, I think we saw that somewhere. The
person we expect her to be using her a little bit more, too. >> We don't we don't have anybody um we would like to hire um this year and pay a spend a maximum of $15,000
for a part- timerr. Um >> what would that person do? that that person would would be a keyboarding clerk which would also help support um a need in senior services for some additional assistance on various
different tasks. So they they they would be used throughout the health department where needed but as needed. So and not to exceed 15,000. >> So we're on the senior health page on 162.
>> No. Yeah, senior health. Sorry. >> Um, >> so >> this person that we're asking for would also float in the retired citizen department as well. >> There's no one. No, >> no, we don't have anybody.
>> So, you're looking at a position. Well, I'm sorry, council. >> Well, we we had a retirement last year. We had a full-time keyboarding clerk and that person retired. Now we're asking for We just want 15,000 hourly for an hourly employee.
>> Got it. Got it. >> Can't make that work without that. >> Yeah. >> Well, I had the floor. I'm sorry. I was asking a question and everybody just jumps in. So, the expressions have got to stop. We're not children. Um, so we
can't make it without that $15,000 expenditure even though they retired. I mean, we made it through the first five months of the year, right? >> Well, there's a need there's a need in the um senior services. They've been
struggling and it would really help out the senior services division as well as, you know, when it comes time for like animal licensing, I could use them to help out with that. And there's there's tasks that I could use the metric support in.
the organizational chart. >> Yeah, >> you should have it. >> Oh, you know what? It's on the back of the other page. >> Councilwoman Brut, >> um, what was your actual longevity spend
>> last year was $3,31928. >> There's none for this year. >> Zero for some time. >> Okay. There's there isn't any said there's none such a melts. Okay. So, um while I still have the floor, we
were talking few hours ago about this supervisory position that was budgeted for 88 8500. Can one of these two senior there's a senior public health nurse be doing that
job instead of paying8500? >> So this this individual that's currently in this position um has different qualifications and is doing different things with those qualifications that the senior public health nurse or the
public health nurse is qualified to do. Can you be more specific? >> What What are the >> So, so the the the consultant is a is a a DNP, a doctor of a nurse practitioner, and is able to write scripts for our
homebound residents that need certain vaccinations. And we have a partnership with CVS to um to fill those prescriptions and and bill their insurance. And then we're we're able to administer those to
people who can't get out to the doctor. >> So, how often is that is that position? How many hours is is that? >> She works about eight hours a week. >> Okay. >> Filling doing just just writing scripts.
No, it's that's not that's just you asked me what the difference was between the public health nurse and the >> she has a qualification that that that that's one task. She supervises the whole division in terms of making sure we're we're meeting the program
requirements of the practice standards for public health and >> well I I understand that she's supervising but for that supervising uh role why can't the senior health public nurse do that and for the script
writing hire this uh DNP for the script writing? That's just not the way it's structured. >> But can it be restructured so that we are saving some money? >> Well, this here's where John wanted me
to explain this. This position has been funded by a grant for five five years. The grant that it was being funded by just ended on March 31st. >> So, we're asking to fund from April 1st
to June 30th. We're pursuing a we're asking to fund out of the operating budget. We're we're pursuing another grant and we're hopeful that that grant will be able to cover the cost going forward for the period of the grant cycle.
So, we were we were going to surprise you and take some money out of the OE budget, but somebody ruined our surprise and no. So, we don't know if we're going to get that grant. So, when we get to the next section, the OE, we would point out that $30,000 that we're looking for
um for this particular individual, the DNP, right? Um could be grant funded. We won't know that for another >> Well, it's Yeah, it's it's a it's a grant that >> Yeah, with the RF uh >> the RFP is supposed to come out
tomorrow. So, I'll have more more ideas if we're able to fund this position, but it's a non it's a non-competitive grant. So, we're we're guaranteed to get the money. It's just a matter of we apply it to fund that position. >> That's the look for the grants. I'm sorry.
>> Did we try to look for grants before knowing that this grant was going to end? >> Well, yeah, we're pursuing another one right now, but >> just open or if it just comes out tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> I'd like to make a recommendation if there's support that we just wait until
the position is funded or the grant is is funded. Please, until I get an answer, can we hold off on making >> that's that that's the OE, but I I I think the OE does not affect the SNW here. Um, so we have two employees, two public
health nurses um that are at maximum uh salary. And then there is the ask for $15,000 for an hourly employee that's going to support senior health, your general health, and and retired
citizens. Um, >> but I'm just saying we have other departments where we haven't funded positions. >> Yes. >> So that's right. If we haven't funded positions in other departments, unfortunately, everybody is going to have to feel that
>> pain of not having enough staff until we can >> Okay, >> that's all I'm saying. And that's only a $15,000 position. >> I'll let let her finish. >> I was just saying it's only a $15,000 position. So, if we could take that out,
that would be helpful. Mhm. >> Um, so you get a a grant. >> Well, that that would the grant would not be covering the 15,000 >> that the grant is out of the OE. >> Okay. So, maybe we just not staff that
position right now. I know it would be helpful, but again, I'm just looking at across the board. We've told other departments not to hire and they need help as well. Could with all due respect, can you hear what Miss Van Dyke has her need before you make a decision
on this because that's this will help her as well. >> I would want her to explain her her need because she knows better than I do. >> So So where I'm having trouble with these organizational charts is that and
I get it for the public. You don't want the employees names on here, but I need the employees names and I need to know where something says vacant >> so I know what's vacant and what's what's not and where's the need so I can visually see it.
>> I'm sorry to fill them in as we go along. But >> you're not providing the names because it's just an organizational chart. This is for the public. We I told >> No, this is for me. I need to do my job. I need >> But we're not doing that right now. So that was a decision administrative decision. We could have all
>> Okay. All right. >> Well, you need to tell us on the organizational chart what's vacant and what's not. >> Okay. You need to make it clear though. >> So back to the organization, >> right? >> I can understand you don't want to do it publicly. >> But we need that information to do our job. Okay.
>> But even for this one again, >> I still have the floor. >> That's okay. Listen, we all collaborating. I'm fine with that. I'm just teasing you. So listen. So, so I get what you're saying. The public is one thing, but I need to visually see
it. I need to I need to know who's where because you have some employees that do different jobs that do more than one position, right? So, this way, and again, I I know this is tedious. I know it's stressful. I really wish to God
that the school board would have done this because >> talking to two more people this weekend, I was in tears with them. how you know they had a layoff staff a year away from retirement. >> Single single moms who've been with us for
>> time and so we're trying not to lay anybody off. So I know it's tough. >> I know it's a lot of work and it's time consuming. It's time consuming for us. I I mean you know we get paid 12,000 a year to to have this this job but that's
not why we do it. And again, but we, you know, I don't want to sit here and hear in a couple years that all these people had to get let go because we didn't, you know, do the work that we need to do. So, we could just have that information to help us make us these informed
decisions because we don't want to short change the folks that are working. But I'm going to be honest with you. We couple years ago, everybody wanted that salary guide changed and we changed the salary guide and not everybody was here. I was here and it was because people are
doing multiple jobs yada yada yada and we appreciate everybody working really super hard. But now that guide, you know, the salaries are high. And so again, when it was sold to us, it was because of multiple jobs that folks had
to do and and now you come back and and folks want additional staff support. And I get it because we do we have to watch what we add on our part responsibilities uh to the staff. So we have to be mindful of that when we have all these
ordinances that we want to kick in. So that's that's my piece. If I may just weigh in briefly, council president, um it is best practice to leave the names off in public presentations like this because you don't want to you don't want to delve into discussions. >> Exactly. We're just >> talking about personnel issues.
>> We need information to do our job. >> Of course. And if you want to have those discussions offline, >> we ask for >> you can certainly have those discussions offline. Yes. >> Thank you. >> And my final question was regarding your organizational chart. Are any of these positions currently vacant?
>> Sorry. on on your organizational chart. Are any of these positions vacant? >> Yes. >> Can you tell us what they are? >> Do you have another copy of that? Go ahead. >> One animal patrol officer. >> It's just full time.
>> Hold on. Hold on. Okay. So, in under environmental, one animal control officer is vacant. >> Hold on. I'm just trying to pull this up here. Hold on. >> Yeah, I've been matching them up. It's pain. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So
then under environmental, >> you said you had a part-time animal control. It's not vacant. You said it was part-time and full-time. >> You already the full-time. We have one full-time. We had two full-time. We had one We had one full-time
resigned. We only have filled it for part-time right now. >> Okay. So, it's not vacant. It's not vacant as a part-time. >> It's vacant. The full-time position is vacant. Yes. If there is a part-time person, >> you only have two positions. You only have two positions. Correct. Okay.
>> We only filled the the second full-time with a part-time person. >> Okay. >> And then what else is vacant? >> The chief RHS under environmental is vacant. >> And what does that person do? >> Is the um the head of the environmental
division. And what's the salary then? >> I don't have it in front of me. >> I just want to jump in with maybe to help him. >> Uh this vacant position, I don't think you have that on your budget page. Correct. >> It's not. >> It's not on here.
>> No. The chief REHS. That's Mike. >> That's me. >> Yeah. >> That's you. Okay. So that's Okay. >> How many hats do you wear? >> A lot. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> No, I don't get a different salary. No,
I don't. No, I don't. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. >> So, then the only other vacancy we have is we've we never filled the keyboarding clerk one in the health center. >> That's this, >> the same one you're talking about.
>> Okay. >> Okay. And then under senior services, you're talking about a sen a keyboard and clerk one as well. So under nursing and >> no no only asking for it would be coming under out of this department or this
salary, >> we'd be sharing it because we're now kind of one. So now where the keyboard and clerk one position is vacant under nursing, we can cross that off completely >> because that person is going to be
shared between senior services and nursing. >> Yeah, let's delete that. >> So we can we can actually delete >> what's the salary on that? >> No, I don't think so. No. >> No. So under the under the under the chart,
>> that person wasn't placed under the senior services. It was placed under on the money. >> The director put it under here, but he wants to share between it's it's all under the health department. Senior service now is under the health department. That person's just going to float between the two places.
>> This is going to float between the two sections. >> No, we don't need the names if we need the numbers. >> No. is that I'm fine with that. But I just I mean again when we're looking at the organizational chart, we're looking at that and represent it comparatively to the budget, but the budget isn't
matching the actual positions. So it's a little difficult for us, especially if there are no names. We're just trying to figure out where we can make adjustments. >> So that is definitely a place. And so and animal control is part-time even
though it's not it's still a position. It's not a full-time position. I I I I'm think I got it. But so basically the only place that's a vacant position on your organizational chart is under
nursing keyboard clerk one. >> Right. Correct. >> But that's not in the budget now. >> Right. We had a full-timer for a million years and that person retired. Now we're just asking for $15,000 for a part-timer and we're going to share that part-timer in in the retired citizen.
>> So not asking for a full-timer. Um just 15k for for part-time work. >> Yeah. But we just again we took we would not fund other positions in other departments. So everybody has to have that same
>> you know unfortunate unfortunately >> yeah well we understand >> it was an ask that's it we understand >> you know with the 7% we got to really look at every penny >> all right anything else >> so that 15 would come out here so uh on
page 162 >> I think we were asked to wait until until Laura van DK weighs That's I think that's >> okay. So, we're just going to not approve this page, but we're going to keep moving. >> Yep. You're >> Is she coming in because
>> tonight? >> Yeah, she's here. >> Okay. We have about three doors stacked up. It's an hour and 10 minutes. Let's go. >> Feel like we're >> bring her in. >> Okay. So, this >> I know airlines. So this is the senior citizen
uh I mean the senior health uh OE budget. Um director Fonino was talking about line 100 which is the majority of of of this budget. >> It's um
you talk. >> Yes. as we as we discussed that that 30,000 would be funding the uh the public health nurse supervisor position. Um I asked that if we can just hold off on voting on this until we get a
decision from the grant. We should know by the end of June >> hopefully beforehand >> but hopefully before that. >> Speaking of grants um I had a question on that senior livability u >> coordinate the person that we have. I mean that used to be a grant and it's no
longer a grant. Why don't we have a grant for that? >> I would love to have a grant for everything. It just simply isn't program isn't available anymore to to fund that. So I think we got the grant based on we would hire the person after
>> the grant period would run out. >> That was part of the agreement. >> So excuse me. How long do you have to h you have to maintain them for in perpetuity or perpetuity? But >> full time. >> So you make some grants make a
commitment that you're going to retain that position. Now when we first did that years ago when I was involved with the senior services when Laura first came Miss V director um department came on we received the partners for health
grant. Now that's one of my questions for her. Are she still receiving that grant? So, you may see it here, but is she still receiving money from that? It may need fully funded. It may not be fully funded, but it could be partially. That's one of the questions. And she's shaking her head. No. So, we're not even
getting any more money from Partners for Health. >> Yeah. As I understand, if that was a that was like a startup grant and then yes, we were we agreed to take that person on full-time once that grant ran out. >> If we can't do I'll do that anymore, though. >> We did. No, we did not. We did not
submit the position. >> Yeah, >> that that did not happen. >> No, we never granted the full-time position. >> No, because that was the other person that had the job prior, >> right? >> So, we're requesting we table Senior Citizen Health Center until we know a
little bit more about the grant since, you know, it's significant part of the budget is that 30K ask. So, um, if it's okay with with the council, we'd like to table it until we just have some more information. >> Well, over that line item or the whole
page. >> I would also >> Well, the line item is like the majority of the budget. So, >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> for everything else that is zeroed out, I think we should just remove that or add that up, figure out what that is,
and give them some sort of a budget to to spend. and figure out where it what they can figure out what they need. >> It's going to be $4,432.92. >> It's It's in the bottom line. It's $30,000. Everything else adds up to 34,
>> right? >> So, we >> So, but I'm looking at what hasn't been spent. I know that there's one thing that was spent in medical supplies. So, we can't can't take that. >> I'd make a suggestion. We're going to go back to this page because of 30,000
clean time. Can we just reress that page in its entirety? I'll have the directory take a look at this to see what you can cut and then we can provide you with a a page that's maybe a little bit more palatable. I just I'm I'm thinking for brevity here. We're trying we got people stacked up and >> it's going to take us another 20 minutes
to get through this page. So, >> okay, work for us. >> Okay, sounds good. Okay, next page is 165 or 166. >> So I think you're off the hot seat. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. We're not doing garbage tonight. >> Set up another date. >> So, while we're meeting, just to let you guys know, we did we did publish meetings four and five, which are next Monday and Wednesday. Um, on number six,
we have a date and it appears we're going to probably need a number seven here. So, we came up with two additional dates and I know you're conscious of vacation. So, we were looking at December 4th for or June 8th for both because we could set them up because it appears we're going to probably need a seventh
meeting. >> No, I can't do June 4th. I cannot do it. >> Okay. How about June 8th? >> The date that's >> that's a Monday, I believe. Yeah, that's ongoing. >> Do we have council meeting on that Tuesday? >> Yes, we have council. That's really not
good. >> Not good. >> We're trying to get these things set up for, you know, before we have the June 30th deadline and everything else. So, we have to and you're going on vacation and you you get a desire not to miss some of these meetings. So, we're trying to get >> we're trying to get these set up. So,
>> the following week is after the fifth and sixth or fourth and fifth meeting, we have Memorial Day. So you have that day off and you have a council meeting on that Wednesday. So >> how about June 11th? >> June >> June 10th. >> June 10th is the day after.
>> And there's a high there's a >> then it's getting close. >> Is there any way to go a little longer for the next few meetings and and knock it off like an extra hour or so? How would anybody feel about that? >> I'm willing to go. >> Yeah, maybe just go a little later for the next few meetings. We can get them
done. >> I'm sorry. Or you could say >> just go a little later like in till 10 instead of 9. >> That's up to you guys. You you know we can start earlier too if you want to do at 3:00. We don't care. >> We can do it all day or if you want to do it all day like a Friday during the day or something like that. We can do that too. We'll we'll work weekends, you
know, just we're here to get this done. >> So we don't want we we're putting all these schedules together so that it's not >> we're not falling behind on the schedule that that the DCA wants us to and puts you guys in a bad position. So that's what we're trying to do here
>> and and I appreciate that. But also like today like just remind the directors again to like >> be more organized >> like we've been asking for like really scrutiny of the individual line items.
>> Okay, that's it. That's all I'm going to say. So we don't have to spend the time here. >> We want to understand actual costs of every department. >> We'll do it all. Okay, we're going to try to go. >> Uh, Councilman Kakoviac, >> did we decide on another date? >> No.
>> No, >> there's not those two dates. >> Those two don't work. I suggested perhaps going a little later on the other date. >> I I'd like to um I'd like to consider an extension till 10 p.m.
>> Yeah. >> For the next 10. >> No, >> no, not tonight. To the for the next two meetings. >> No, then not for the next one. Because isn't that a day before our >> Oh, no. There's no council meeting that week. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um I I I think we're going to need a
break though. >> We can't go from 4 to 10. >> I mean, council, >> we go from >> 92. >> Yeah. So, is is that do I need to make a motion for that or can we all agree?
>> No, she has to. She Nope. She has to do notice because this is a publicly noticed meeting. >> No, no, no. I don't want to go till 11:00 when we've been here for 6 hours, we get a little cranky >> in council meetings. So, let's not do that during budget hearing. This is
financial. Not to say that the regular council meetings aren't important, but this is a little different. This is numbers and and and real money. >> Yeah. And if you tell recreation not to give us a mulligan stew, I think we'll get through it a lot faster. >> I know. That's why I'm hoping our new
recruit can step up to the plate and manage the budget. >> Our new recruit. >> So are Yeah. >> So are we doing uh 10 on the 18th and the 20th? Do you want me to renotice that? >> Yes, I think that would be great. Okay. >> See what we can get through.
>> Maybe we can get it done. Listen and and just you know the comments are flying around and just you know >> this was a practice this is a this is a practice that has been in place for many
many years for 40 years. So so this is a hard transition and everybody needs to be patient. So we we we may tease or whatever but again the directors all work hard and we're just trying to transition to zerobased budgeting. That's all we're trying to do.
>> And it's not even say that somebody's budget was mulligan stew. >> Well, he called it that >> that he could call it whatever he wants to, but we don't have to reiterate >> any type of his language I use. >> Well, >> okay. Let's
>> just for clarification, if you extend the time of those meetings, the links will stay the same. It just be the time like extended. >> Okay, let's get moving. No, we're extend next two meetings and then we'll figure out >> streamline the operations.
Yeah. >> Yeah. If we get a dates through email so not everybody knows when we're not home. >> Yes. >> Ready? >> Yes. >> Okay. We're on page 166. This is the retired citizens department. Is it is it
that okay to call them that or >> what would you prefer? >> It's the department of senior services adults >> vibrant older adults. That's what I'm going to say. >> Okay. >> Um I
>> think there's somebody like see senior service to name senior services and not retired. >> Yeah. >> Senior services. Um, so this is uh we have two full-time employees and one part-time employee. The increase ask
year-over-year is for $9,272. Um, the base salary increase is due to a step and cola increase for um the keyboarding clerk too. Uh, and then there is a reduction in the amount asked
for for overtime of $2,000. So, I Oh, I'm sorry. Um, let me introduce uh the municipal director of welfare and and senior citizen program aid and municipal alliance coordinator. Um, Miss Laura Van
Djk. Uh, Miss Van Djk, if you'd like to say something about your department before we begin. I'm sorry. >> Can you hear me? Okay. >> Okay, great. So, thank you for the opportunity. Um, you know, I I want to
be on record as to be a team player. We, you know, really want to be perceived that way as working together. Um, we take our the department takes our jobs very seriously. So, uh, this was
addressed last year. Uh, the discussion of the multiple services that come out of our department. So while we're called the department of senior services, we are also the social services branch. So
needs that come in which are daily it are also being addressed through our department often by me. So um so when we're talking about extra support, some of that is to help manage
the structure in the department and we all are very very hard workers will continue to be that. Um, I suppose an alternative is to, you know, pull
back a bit and rethink how we're doing and offering certain certain things. Um but we take very seriously the grant that partners for health health had
given us and then the obligation to hire which we which we've done. So for a couple years now, we've had a person in that role. And part of that role, a very big important part of that role is to keep an eye on
the age friendly lens and to look into the near future where the balance is shifting between the number of folks 65 and older and under 17. So that a lot of thought is going into that lens and
maintaining our age friendly status as a community. We're a part of a much larger age friendly community within the state that we take very seriously and um we have a good reputation and will occasionally present at um you know
workshops and such. Um but that is a part of that that that role uh is to really look into and I'd be happy if anyone wanted this is this is the age friendly blueprint from the state that was created in 2024 gives a
these are great recommendations on how communities should be functioning. The age friendly lens is such that one should be thinking about is this a place to both age in place both for moms pushing strollers and for um older
adults. So when in all decisions that are made when you're putting in new stop lightss or thinking about your crosswalk or what's the timing on on on that that walk sign is it enough for people of all abilities to cross. So um as well and
the the focus are the eight domains of livability which I've said here multiple times and I'll you know I'm going to wrap this up soon but I it's really important work and it's really helping West Orange think about the future and
um and we just we take that very seriously. So um I I just want to add so as a part of my role I oversee three grants. I do programming for older adults. I am the social worker. So when there's a
wellness check when there's someone struggling with a dementia issue which is not necessarily considered a mental health issue. So there's pivoting back to the township to say you need to address this. It is an mental health issue. there's a
vulnerable adult. Um, so it would be like a wellness check and follow-up resources. And I want to say the role we've played in this community for being the place where a person can call with a need is wonderful. You should all be
very proud of of our efforts to help people with a simple solution to a question which is in fact quite profound. So we take it very seriously. I don't I never say we don't do that. And and so you can you can then say to me, Laura, you have to start saying we
don't do that. And maybe that is the outcome, but I don't. So I'll say, well, uh this is I I I want to give you a person that you can call then to um to guide you. So I think that's an
excellent use of taxpayer dollars. Um, this was so unnecessary, but I don't want anyone to ever feel like they owe me anything. But a woman brought in flowers just because I listened to her. She felt so valid. I couldn't solve her problem,
but I took I I listened and empathized. Tough situation. So, there's so much value in what we do that maybe it's not obvious to you. So, when we're saying, gosh, I need more help that this is the service we're providing. So it's deciding as a community how do we value
the social fabric and do you feel like what I am saying is un of value and if so I can really give you great insights as to what's needed. So thank you. >> Thank you sis.
>> Yes. >> So I want to thank you. I I mean you really live by the the AARP's values, the eight domains as you mentioned. Uh I know we've had, you know, such a great need in this
community the past some 10 years. A lot of people would, you know, move elsewhere. A lot more people are retiring here, which is great in one way and tough in another way because of of the need that you provide. um question I
have in regards to the budget itself and and I'm glad we're going to wait to see if we could get that grant that Mr. Fonino talked about for the 30,000 for the other position on page 168
um the senior livability nurse. Does that play into the grant or is that Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Jeez. Thank god he's >> Oh my god. >> Don't look down here. >> Oh, you just you just scared the hell
out of your voice. >> So sorry. So sorry. >> Let's take a five minutes. Take a minute. Five minutes. Take five minutes. Make sure you're not hurt. Joe, can you take it >> mouth to mouth?
They're breathing right now. >> You know what status is there? Did you on that? >> I don't know. They'll see. Yeah, he's got a little frozen. Once again, thank you for your patience. We had a slight mishap in council
chambers here. Everyone is okay. Thank you for your patience. And at this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president. >> Great. Thank you for sticking with us. We're going to resume with uh Mr. Datiniac and M Miss Van Dyk.
>> Okay. So, I I know we have a question about the OE, but >> do we have any questions about the salary and wage because that's that's where we were going to start. >> Um >> the salary >> for the retired citizens senior services
programming. Um, is there any question about Okay, I'm sorry. What was that? >> There's nothing we can do until aren't they at max? They're at max. >> Correct. The two the two full-timers Yeah. are at max. And And then there's
an ask for $5,000 for overtime. >> And the council president. >> Yes. and the the um >> the part-time person, how is that salary arrived at? >> So that's number of hours worth how many
hours? >> 25 >> 25. >> Right. >> Right. The overtime is allocated to one employee and that would be for um usually for weekend events or evening meetings like
you have older adults advisory board meeting things like that >> or events. Is it possible since the one person is hourly to shift those extra hours to the second um keyboarding clerk instead of
having overtime? >> Just give all of those I mean there was an attendance at a repair cafe for 6 and a half hours. Can you can you shift that to your second >> same use for
>> and and account for the 25 hours within that so that we're not going into this overtime? >> We already do some of that. She already she does we've just started a new pilot program in the evening in the library. So she does use her schedule that way.
>> So when we can we we do that. >> Can can you do more of that? Well, she's part-time and that's she I don't think the interest is there beyond that the amount of hours that she's working. >> No, I I meant within the within the 25
hours a week if you know that that week you're going to have for instance the repair cafe which was 6 and 1/2 hours. Can she use that th those hours instead of us? I understand what you're saying and and I we we we do that and I can
continue to work to do that. I wouldn't like to see um all that overtime be taken away. Um but I can certainly try to work with the scheduling. >> Yeah. For example, we don't need her at
the old older adults advisory board. >> No, John said that. That's right. That's that's like a waste of her time. >> Correct. Yeah. But she has she has been paid to attend the older adventure. >> She has. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> But that has changed.
>> So going going forward, can you tell us how much overtime you anticipate? I'm talking about scheduled events that that are outside of hours. There's a lot. >> I >> Well, so we're asking for 5,000. Um,
so no more than 5,000 worth because I, you know, I think events pop up, not everything is scheduled at all times and and requirements of your employees are not always set in stone. So, >> right, but when we're talking about overtime, we're paying a a heck of a lot
more than the hourly. We're paying we're paying twice that. So, I'm just half. Yeah. if if that can be if that can be adjusted for the part-time um keyboarding clerk. >> Yeah, I think you said you you do your best to try to allocate those hours as
much as >> so so >> as that employee will >> Williams out of um are you going to make a recommendation or not? >> Not yet. Not yet. I want you to hear what she has to say. >> Okay. So, I'd like to um make a
recommendation that we just keep that to the 2025 expenditure. Um so, if we could just keep that flat at 4,100, that's taking $900 away from overtime. It's just keeping it where it was last year, not giving you an increase.
>> How much is spent to date? >> 1735. >> So, that's more than that's giving more than double the amount time. And and since Miss Van Djk has said that she's not um she that her assistant is not
attending the older adults and she's being more um conscience of putting the second keyboarding clerk. I think that's fair. I'll second that. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
>> Because you said recommendation. So >> well motion. >> I move that. >> I'll second it. Okay. 40. Leave it to leave it at 41. >> Okay. >> Actually, I'm going to amend my own
motion and just make it make it flat at 4,000. >> Yeah, that's okay. Thank you. >> I'll second that. Okay. >> Great. I'm sorry. Oh, Council Winkovak,
>> what is uh the administration's input on uh reducing this other than I'm sure you don't want to do it, but is does it going to impact a program or uh >> Okay. >> You want to answer it that you know of now?
>> Sure. Well, that's true. Yeah, that's true. >> I want to be >> Yeah. So, I I I I think if we look back to last year, Miss Van Djk um had requested a part-time employee and and then was given overtime to say, you
know, do your programming and and you can utilize overtime. So, it probably stings a little bit to to have it cut. um not saying who this person is, but I think does a tremendous job and and by utilizing overtime makes them available
for these programming um these events that happen on weekends or after hours. And I'm sure our seniors appreciate not just Miss Van Dyke's um uh you know uh presence at these programming but this other employee
>> um and and also allows these programs to run more smoothly when you have another person there. So I understand the desire to dig into in into the increase. I don't know if
it's worth taking lessening the experience for your older adults, of which I think we said there are 13,000 in this township over o over $1,000. I don't know. Um ultimately,
if it affects it, you'll hear from your constituents. If you don't, then it was fine. Um I think we'll leave it at that. Yeah, we'll we'll figure it out. Yeah.
>> Yes. Let's take a vote. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, Council President, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Great. >> 66ent.
>> Consent. >> Okay. Now 168. I'd ask about >> Okay. So, Council, >> could you just explain line 204, the senior livability nurse scroll? >> Sure. Oh, yeah. Go ahead.
>> Yeah. Just that that is an incorrect label for that line. It really should not say nurse. >> Um, it's it's a OE for senior livability. So, >> and what what's >> from that line? We exactly spent Yeah.
We uh pay for various things such as uh some of the calendars and um other other initiatives that we're doing. We're doing a an insert into the tax bill, the next tax bill to help uh raise
awareness of our department and um get more people uh on our list serve. Um uh as well as the banners that you see around town and um over throughout the year, we had a intergenerational program
in the fall and there were banners representing that it's older Americans month. Uh there were age friendly banners. So, uh, initiatives like that. >> Okay. So, a couple things. So, the banners, are they all generic with the date because you already purchased them
last year, >> right? So, this year we just made a tweak. We used the same banner and just updated it. >> Okay. Yeah, I know. Meg me on ours puts the stickers on them. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Um, and in regards to the tax bill,
can't the mayor just incorporate that in a letter? Like I hope we're sending letters with tax bill or on the in in the back of her letter. We should be able like I don't understand why you you folks have to use your budget for that
when any message that comes from the township directly should go either in the mayor's letter with the tax bill or on the back of her letter because I've done that before. um when we did the the survey the senior citizen survey
actually was was uh done that way. So it shouldn't be costing >> your your department >> $4,600. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a lot of money. >> So I I I would you know director I know we you know just because we're you know
being surgical here on a lot of the items. If you could maybe lower that, I would lower that $2,000. >> Like to cut it in half. >> Councilman Koviac had something he wanted to ask before we do
>> 204. So, and it should be named Senior Livability Initiatives probably. >> No, >> that's not what >> that's not what it is. >> He's saying it, but it's used for their initiative programming senior livability. But but it's really not
because you're really >> not >> you're really you're just really advertising and >> Yeah. I know. >> So I honestly that should be cut. Yeah. That No, that that's okay. No, I want you to speak. I want to un We want That's what we're here for. We're here
to understand what you're looking to do with the funds so we know number one what accurate uh line item it should be under um or if the program should be cut at this point. >> Right? So it's again it's just operating
expenses. So it could include food, it could include giveaways, um you know for the street fair or for any of the various events that uh the coordinator attends for engagement. Uh we just had a
very very successful volunteer and um job uh fair and um each recipient received a bag with uh information and on uh age friendly and senior services
and uh our uh anti-agism campaign. So it's materials such as that as well. So, was there anything ordered to give away at the Shri Fair or >> Yes. >> So, do you have bills that will be coming in for this? You so far spent
$750 this year. I'm just trying to think it should be reduces line item a little bit. >> Well, I think >> I'm just trying to determine what or you you determine you know what was already spent so we could determine that number.
>> Right. So part of the challenge with our budget lines is that they're not >> perfect >> as clear as they could then maybe be that. >> Joe, Councilman Koviac is next after whenever you're finished.
>> Yes. Thank you, Council President. >> I'm good. uh going through the page, I I just added this all up and uh all of the programs on this page uh increased uh in terms of
your budget proposal for this year by a little over $7,000, which is, if I did my math correctly, it's 29% increase. So, I went back and looked at all the n line items where you actually made a budget change request and of those 10
budget items, uh uh seven went up and one went down. So, the the budget is expanding and it's certainly understandable. uh you you're doing a lot of uh different programs and initiatives, but I just want to make sure that that I understand some of
these line items to just be sure that it's it's something that uh uh we we want to be secure about how we we spend. So on uh line item 070 miscellaneous, >> yeah, it uh that's what I have.
>> Um >> didn't have any. It went up 49% from or the from what you expended last year uh to what you're asking for this year. So almost $2,000. I'm just curious since it only says miscellaneous what that that
is. Is it just your operating expenses? >> It it is it's a variety of things. It could be some expenses related to a trip. It could be um >> supplies for an event. It could be our calendars. >> Office supplies. >> Office supplies. >> Okay.
uh and 080 senior club contracts. I didn't understand what that was. >> So, historically the township, the department of senior services have have given um what's the right word subsidy to
different senior programs in town. So, uh there are in particular two programs that are for older adults and they're social um they're they're social groups and
they do monthly events and they're uh a great resource to us. So, this has been in place for many years before I arrived where this subsidy was is given. Um I there are there's typically four
subsidies. I think there are particularly two that would be most important at $ 250 each. So $500. I could do away with the other 500. >> Could you tell us a little more about them? What they actually are?
>> Yeah. There's social groups in in West Orange that meet monthly at the one is at the Presbyterian Church and the other is at uh Toby Catz run by seniors in town and they're monthly meetings and they're full of all kinds of sharing of
information and and um socializing and current events and I think they they have um you know holiday parties and events. So it's just another way that needs are being met for socialization. So in terms of the township supporting
that, offering a subsidy, it it just helps maintain good connection and and give that support. It these are not highly funded. They don't they pay dues. So that's where they're um that's what sustains them. >> Okay. Uh on 203
uh the line for nutrition, it's uh it's going from uh a little more than what was spent last year, which was over your budget last year. here. It's up to $3,600. Is there some particular program having to do with nutrition or programs that uh caused this increase?
>> I think that uh we did have some additional grant funds last year, so we we don't have this year. So, I think that's part of the increase here. Um our nutrition program does support some of our um
our our events, you know, our and our uh >> more refreshments. Yeah, it's refreshing. >> That's better. >> And and I think the director increased it because the cost of food has gone up. So, >> okay. Thank you. I I would just want to
move that we uh move that we uh take the $7,80 proposed increase and just drop it down to 6,000 or 6,080 uh whichever the council >> make a different recommendation. >> Okay. Councilwoman Williams.
>> Thank you. Uh council finished. >> Go ahead. >> I guess I am. >> Oh god. >> Council, is that a recommendation or a motion? >> I said motion. >> You did. Okay. Thank you. >> I actually said move. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> You did. >> It's a stylistic thing.
>> Yeah. Can we hear that? I think we >> Well, there's no second. So, >> yeah, but I didn't ask for a second either at that point. >> Well, well, I'm just trying to wrap my head around. So, >> what? >> Wait a minute. Council >> No. What his motion is? >> Oh. to reduce the budget. >> Yeah, let her decide. She's already
offered $500 down and so let her decide what the other >> I will I will second that motion. Yeah, I need to go a little further. >> I'll make an amendment to that motion. >> I'm sorry, Councilwoman. Did you second that? >> And I'd like to make an amendment to the
number. Um it looks like the budget I'd like to just keep it flat. We have um I like to keep it flat from what it was the budget last year. And my reasoning is that we have again a
lot of other organizations in town. Um we have the police department that does a tremendous amount of activities, even more each year. They're adding too. Um it comes from their budget, not ours. And they have allocated. Um, obviously
we'll see where that is when they come and do the presentation, but if we could just hold this, um, you you do a great job. It's not that I hear you. >> It's not the fact that you're not doing >> a great job, but we're trying to figure
out how we can hold steady. Um, so I'd like to just recommend that again it not increase at all from 2025. >> Is there a second? How can we second when this motion is a second on the motion to amend Mr. Kowski's
motion? >> No second. I'll second it. Thank you. Council >> call a voice vote on the motion to amend. >> Just say I want to be clear on what the numbers are. The number >> pay to charge 1231 2025 was
>> 20 24 to 31. Okay. So, >> so it's 7,000 basically. >> I I I I like to make a motion. >> We got a motion and an amendment on the floor >> to amendment >> and and it has a second amendment. >> I think we should vote on the first
amendment first and then if there's another motion to amend then entertain that one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, this is the vote on the amendment. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Uh, no. Too high for me. >> Councilman Koviaak? >> No. >> Councilwoman Ruden? >> No. Councilwoman Williams,
>> yes is my motion. >> Council President Scarpa, >> no. >> Okay. So, >> Mr. Coke, how acts a motion is still on the table. His original motion. >> Okay. So, the original motion was to go to 6,000. >> Reduce by reduced 1,000 to. So, it's down to
>> 6080. That was I believe. Is that correct? >> Yes, that's correct. 6080. >> Okay. Thank you. >> $6,80. >> All right. So, now we'll do >> way to you be taking off a total of a,000. >> Yes. You know, that's to me too low. So, I can't I can't >> Okay. Well, we'll do the vote.
>> Councilwoman Castelino,000. >> Uh, no. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> I I just need to reiterate the motion. I'm sorry. I'm not clear on the amount that it's going to
>> being reduced $1,000 from $7,080 to $6,080. >> That's just the line, right? >> No, that's the budget. The whole section. Yeah, >> Councilwoman Williams, I was just going to suggest she decide where the change comes from. That's why I
>> But this only $1,000, correct? >> That's correct. >> You're only cutting it by $1,000. >> No. Yes. >> My motion. Yes. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I I vote no. >> Oh, did I get to you yet? I don't >> Sorry. I I misunderstood what he was saying as well.
>> Okay. So, we have a no, a yes, a no, and a no >> to All right. and council president's no. >> Okay. So, the motion fails. >> So, I'd like to make another motion. >> Wait a minute. Can we I need to make a note, please. >> Yeah. Let Yeah, let her let her make a
note. I mean, we're all going to come to a consensus, so >> Okay. I want to rush to I just want to make sure I get this all down. Okay. >> Um, right. Now, >> I have a question for the director. Director, you see where we're going here?
>> Yeah. Okay. And so, you know, we're we got to reduce it. >> I understand. >> I I mean, we go $3,000 less. I >> I mean, I can handle that, >> you know. Okay. >> Yeah.
>> All right. And again, it's not cuz >> I understand. >> We're We're just having a tough year. We don't we don't want anybody We don't want to let anybody go in the next couple years, but we really got to start raining this stuff in. And I know and to councilwoman's point, there are a lot of
the police department has been great. Uh hopefully they'll be able to continue to provide uh some activities for our seniors. Um but um yeah, we got we got to tweak a little bit. So I I'll make a motion
uh to go down 3,000. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. >> Oh, okay. >> Take off 3,000 from this section. >> Yeah. So instead of 313, we're looking at 783.
>> So the total is and again I I agree with the councilman to let her decide with line items. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I agree with that as well, but I just I think we just need to my vote can certainly reflect my input, but $3,000
isn't enough. We need to keep it >> if we're in discussion. We need to keep it um discuss. >> No, I got we took a thousand from the other page, so she lost 4,000. >> Yeah, I want to hear from Councilwoman Ruden. >> There there are a couple things I want to discuss. One, we have to get these
the categories correct. >> Um, so I would like to and we don't have to make a motion. I would just like you to make notes on this that 70 should go should be labeled trips. It should not be labeled miscellaneous. >> And what I want to understand is that a lot of this money is going towards the
paper mill. And >> no people paid their ticket for the paper mill. >> You mean do you mean Luna stage? >> No. No. I mean we are paying bills for paper mill. So >> I assume that that we're paying
>> Well, it goes into the trust and then we write a check to the paper mill after people pay. So people are paying for their own ticket. >> Okay. And then we're people are paying and and their money is going into the >> it's deposited directly through community bank. I'll see that. >> Okay.
>> No, what we see is a bill to the paper mill. >> Oh, well, of course, because we write that check, right? So, no, everyone I think we had 24 people, everyone covered the cost of their ticket. Um, it's two staff that is not covered. Okay. And
then the town provides a jney. So, no, we're not we don't pay for those tickets. >> Okay. Just in terms of of of changing categories, um 70 should be should be called trip. Um >> councilwoman, can we let her identify
what her line items? >> It says miscellaneous and what the costs are are trips. So I >> more than trips. It truly is. >> Trips and what? >> The calendar. >> The calendar and office supplies. >> Okay. So that's what we need to >> I I would I will I promise you I will
sit with John and get a much clearer picture that accur accurately represents how we're spending. So, it's much more clear. Great. >> So, one of one of the issues that I've had and and you've heard is that we spend or you spend uh $250 a month. Yes.
3,000 on these calendars that are printed. And I know you like them to be on color, to be colorful, right? But in in this day and age, I just because of what we're facing, I just think it should be on a colored piece of paper.
And I know that that's very nice. And I'm not saying it isn't. It's just very expensive. >> I understand. I I Oh, should I speak? >> That's okay. So, I mean, that that's just one of the things that that that I the nutrition program. It's hard to say
no to nutrition, but it's not really nutrition. It's actually it's actually food for events. So I would appreciate if that category would reflect what it actually is. It's food for events and the senior livability is not actually senior livability. It's really
promotional materials. So for those things, I I would appreciate if those those things could be changed. So I don't think that there's a motion on the floor right now, but >> yeah, there is there a second. Yes. Okay.
>> For $3,000. >> Okay. So, I'd like to make an amendment to your to your motion that that we raise that to $5,000. >> Yeah. This is >> I couldn't get six, but I'll take five.
>> So, you want to reduce it by 5,000. >> Yes. and then they can figure out and if that's if that's still a necessary cost for you then then that's how you he'll use you'll use it. >> So the motion is to >> second it >> to amend the $3,000 reduction motion to $5,000 reduction
>> and that was second. >> Yeah, that's still too high. >> Yeah, we could vote. I'll vote. >> Okay, so on the amendment uh Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yeah, that's too deep for me. She's going to have trouble with her program, so I'll say no. Councilman Koviaak,
>> no. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. The motion carries >> on the amendment. Now we have to vote. >> So now, now that's now the motion is amended and vote on the amended motion.
>> Second. I just want to Michelle said no. >> Yeah. Joe said no. Okay. Okay. So the vote on the amendment Can we also um at the end of this meeting or whenever you get a chance tomorrow at some point, can you tell us
how much we have reduced the budget by to date? >> I was going to ask you to do the same thing. We need >> Madam Clerk has a nice schedule that she's put together. >> I I don't have it added up. >> Yeah, I think you did that last year. It was really helpful. >> No, this is better. >> This is better. You did this year is
much better. So, we can tally them all up and and share it. Thank you. Okay. >> Um, you'll see it in the minutes. I in my minutes I did a Excel sheet so for the budget. Yeah, you'll see it. >> Did you? >> Oh, thank you. Took a while, but I'm
getting it. Um, all right. So, on the amendment, Councilwoman Castelino, >> this is on the motion. >> The motion >> on the motion. >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> Motion to deduct >> I apologize by 4,000 by 5,000. Okay. Now, now too much.
>> Okay. Councilman Koviaak. No. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. >> Now, I have to make a note and tell y'all that council president's pet
project as she indicated is senior livability and she was willing to take money. >> So, I just want to say thank you. And again, this is what working for the people looks like, >> right? Then we have to look at where we can type. Some of the administrative maybe
the marketing things are not as important as programming and things that actually go right to >> on the wall. I'm gonna go to that senior exercise thing on Friday and then I die
on Wednesday and not be able to go. that number on this page while we wait. She comes back >> until she comes back. >> Okay. >> I think you're done. >> We No, we have a
>> Do we're doing tax tonight? Tax collector's office. >> Yeah. what we got. >> So, we're going to we're going to move on to uh to OEM since I'll be here for every meeting. I could do tax at a later date, but we only have 15 minutes left.
So, >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. back. >> I'd like to introduce this Captain Abdor. You're a senior the West Orange Fire Department and this first time ever speaking at at one of our uh budget
hearings. So, he's new to the to this role, but he's not new to the position and he's uh he's doing a wonderful job and he's been here for quite a long time at the department. So, he has a lot of experience and um so he was selected to become our OEM coordinator with the
retirement of our Mr. Alino this year. So, um and we're happy to and pleased to have him here for the first time. So, get that. >> Thank you. Uh good evening everyone. Um, thank you for the introduction. Uh,
they'll call you chief. Um, I just want to start out by saying thank you for, um, your vote of support for me to be in this role in the first place. Um, you know, and thank you to the mayor for putting up the
appointment. Uh, so as as uh, Mr. and Chief Moraldo said, um, I've been in OEM for quite some time since 2013, um, in various roles, primarily as the program liaison to the community
emergency response team, but also, you know, being a member of the fire department, um, you know, served as needed for the for for the office. So, uh, since my um since my appointment, we've had a couple of
things that should be of note. Uh we did submit our emergency operations plan which basically ties together all of the different department heads and their res and their responsibilities with respect to um emergencies emergency management,
right? We're talking about things that go outside of the scope of, you know, normal um everyday functions. you know, obviously the fire department, you know, has uh fire protection and fire um and uh code enforcement. Uh law
enforcement is under police, so on and so forth. So, emergency management basically ties all those things together when um you know, the nor the the normal every day is exceeded. Uh so again some events that have happened you know we
had the snowstorm that kind of caught the tail end of the uh snowstorms where it came about submitting paperwork and so on to the county. Um on March 19th we had a fluid spill up at Pleasantale uh
nursery that was actually a joint effort between ourselves and Verona. Uh we were notified by Verona OEM that there was a fluid spill that was moving towards the uh the pond there in Verona and it turned out to be something within our jurisdiction. We worked with the two
agencies and and got that taken care of. Um, April 5th, there was a major uh flooding at uh Robert Court, 6 Robert Court, about 75,000 gallons of water that was flooded into the basement of a
row of apartments. Um, you know, again, we responded. Um, Chief Ronaldo was was called out for that. This was actually Easter's Easter evening and you know working with uh various departments including DPW we were able to pump out
literally 75,000 gallons of water right and you know one of the key issues or key takeaways about that um incident was the fact that Red Cross was called and they were unavailable. They said this was outside of their scope and this has
been you know not to you know uh kick the Red Cross in the back here but you know the primary um responsibility with respect to sheltering emergency sheltering has traditionally been on on us through our community emergency response team volunteers. We've set up
sheltering before. Um the location that's designated for that purpose is the high school. And you know again they were unavailable, but we made it we made it work uh with the property manager finding some hotel accommodations for
various folks and then other folks basically stayed with um we're friends and family. But the point is that you know emergency management is our responsibility here and we need the resources to uh to make it work. Some
other things that are coming up obviously we have in the rearview mirror CO 19 but ahead of us and and whatever weather events that I just you know I kind of alluded to those previously we don't know what's going to hit us in terms of weather events right you know whether
snowstorms heat waves and so on and so forth we do have some large events coming up you know it is you know the World Cup is coming to our area and in discussions with uh the county OEM coordinator who is um Sheriff Amir
Jones. Um, every municipality is basically on their own. Apparently, there was a shortage of money that was coming to the state of New Jersey, period for any World Cup events. Um, some money was diverted, but basically we're on our own with respect to those
responsibilities for things that we plan to have as well as there should be some overflow, right? Because it's a regional there's a regional impact. Last but not least, you know, this is the 250th anniversary of our country, so
we should be expecting some events and um you know, there's some active discussions with the county sheriff's office about um five events in like nine days. So, let's keep these things in the back of our head and know that that's
all in the background. So again, you know, um thank you for this opportunity, but you know, again, we also need resources to make things work and to carry out our responsibilities.
So with that, um so if if we look at the budget ask for this year, um this is largely a result of of of the captain sort of resurrecting OEM. We've always had it,
but now we're really treating it as a a truly important department that requires resources, that requires operating expenses. And so the $4,000 ask, well, obviously the percentage change is is monumental. Um, it's
because we really weren't spending on OEM in the last couple years in terms of a individual department level. So last year we put it down to a dollar so that if we needed to we would be able to transfer money into it, which we didn't have to. Um but the ask of $4,000 really
is to sort of jumpst start the department and and get equipment, get uniform supplies that we really need to function as a true OEM um for a township of nearly 50,000 people. Uh, I'm sure if you looked at the OEM budget for
Bloomfield, it probably it's like 10 to 20 times the size of this. Um, but this is really just a start um for the captain to really kickstart this uh this department. So, >> first of all, thank thank you captain.
Um, so being here since 2015, this is the first time I've been involved in a conversation with in regards to OEM that I could remember.
And obviously our RBA has been our chief of uh fire department years ago. So I always thought it was absorb and the OEM. Yes, you were OEM, but um but it was always absorbed in the fire department. Are we pulling this out or
like so what's so so I get the need. I always want him them to have what they need. I'm just confused like why it's not in the fire department. I >> This was always in the fire. This is actually assigned to the fire department. Um it's always been in the fire department, but the last several
years the uh the previous coordinator was assigned into the police department and he ran a lot of the operation out over the police even though he umbrelled with different aspects. with the retirement, we thought this would be the best fit. Uh, Captain Mine was the
deputy coordinator. He started under when I was the coordinator and and he he helped actually resurrect and operate the SER program and he had it up to about 40 um volunteers at one point or more. I don't exact number was about 40
volunteers and we probably had a budget of about $12,000 back then. >> Okay. Um, and just through the years or whatever, I retired in 2017. I can't tell you what happened in between, but you know, now that I'm in this role and I'm and we're looking to resurrect this position into back solely into the fire
department. Um, we thought this would be a great fit and a great opportunity to start building again. So, this is a this is a small ask, quite frankly, $4,000. Um, but it's an ask. And so, and if and if the captain can demonstrate with this $4,000 he really needs a need through
this next year, then we will ask you for more next year. And if he doesn't do that need, if he doesn't fulfill that need, then you will take the the ability to say, you know what, we're going to cut you next year. I think it's I think we need to have a a a place to start off to to be begin a foundation of back into
building this up under the fire department. >> So, so that's all my questions. Thanks. So with the need and the ask so obviously uniform accessories but isn't it the fire department
like all the firemen involved in OEM like that's where I'm confused. >> So the way the OEM and stepping on stuff we have what's called the local emergency planning council it's not just the fire department administered to the fire department but every branch of our
government is involved in OEM. So we have people assigned from each department. So this is the teniac is in charge of the finance that that's part of OEF. Yeah, I'm just saying the uniforms. That's why people that may need to be outfitted other than than our
firefighters. So >> okay. So just explain each if you could explain each category and what do you utilize the supplies the categories for? >> So uniforms. >> So with respect to uniforms right um you know currently I'm the only person
assigned to the office. That's where we've we have and traditionally relied on volunteers to carry out some of the functions because you know again when you're talking about for example we have the downtown fair coming up. Do you
want to hire more police and and and firefighters for certain jobs like low like non law enforcement roles, nonfire roles or have force multipliers in with respect to folks that are trained under sir
or even I would offer um under the health department the uh medical reserve corp. We've always traditionally had, you know, volunteers under emergency management tra uh trained in CPR, hands-free CPR, so no mouth to mouth.
Um, >> no offense, >> they've served as eyes and ears. Um, they've moved logistical equipment around. Um, and now it was also an opportunity for us to um have promotional equipment or promotional items to encourage more
volunteerism, right? because there's a general safe, you know, we want to feel safe. We want to make sure that we have folks on hand. >> You know, you're not going to have an unlimited amount of public safety personnel there. So, you might have to have another set of hands to literally do uh compressions. And, you know, I'm
even thinking back to um two downtown fairs ago when it was some of our volunteers, emergency management volunteers that were were vital in us finding a lost child. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, what I'm saying is you have
to have a way to identify them. >> Hence, that's what I was going to get to properly identify >> our volunteers so that you know if they're at a downtown event, it's not just somebody coming up to you saying I'm with OEM and you're like >> that's just like me or if we have
police like they undergo background checks and so on and there's other things involved >> but but this is all under so you're overseeing C. >> Yes. more formal manner. >> Well, they've always been under Yes. >> Cir always been under the the >> Okay, that's where I'm confused. I know
I've This has been there. I just haven't seen us budget separately for it. That's all. That's all I And again, where we're asking folks to volunteer to be in the elements. We had to purchase them, you know, uh like multi jackets and stuff.
>> Guess where were where were we paying for this beforehand? Well, we weren't paying for it at all. wasn't being funded at all. That's what I'm saying. This is >> spending too much on OEM. Um, but now this is legitimizing. It's always been legitimate, but I mean making it a real
department. And that that's why we said we're we're jumpst starting it here with this this 4K ask >> person would be at the fire uh the first aid squad, >> right? >> Would be station uh would be there. Okay. I'm just trying to wrap my head
around it. So I listen I I'm always for first emergency response and was very supportive of the position. It has nothing to do with that. I'm just trying to see how this was funded previously and you know how we're doing it now. So
you're just pulling it out of the f of >> Yeah, we really want to just show that this is specific to OEM and not bury it in, you know, a fire budget or bury it in a police budget. Um, >> there are other aspects of this
department in those two budgets are now all pulled here. >> Well, we we pulled it into OEM. Yeah, >> I think Councilman finished. >> I'm done. >> Councilman Kovia, >> thank you. Just want to hear more about the uh line item for field safety equipment. I think that's sounds
important. And I also I also wish you well on uh sort of getting more people into >> Thank you. Thank you. So, you know, some of those items include um we've had like vests. I mean, again, you have folks that are that might in fact be
traversing around not in the street, but like when we have street closures and so on, we have to have them identifiable again. >> Um also, um equipment like like I said, first aid equipment because we do teach some basic first aid as well. And quite frankly,
just having the ability to purchase equipment in that category because again, this is sort of this is something that's initiated in a certain in a certain way by the by community
need, you know, with the programming with respect to SER, we want to make sure that folks are vested in what they want to do and how they want to um protect our community. support our community and I'm getting I'm getting
inquiries now, you know, from from folks that want to be involved. So you know this is in anticipation of other equipment whether it's like bleeding control u these are some again lowhanging fruit in terms of classes that we can teach folks and you know
again I see meetings and seminars up there there's nothing there in terms of training right but once you train folks you need the equipment but then to deploy and you know these things cost money >> thank you that's all I have
>> um council ruden Yes. Do we have a search team right now? >> So, >> the numbers have dwindled down and that comes in the form of investment, right? At one there was a decision made at one point or another for them to be
more autonomous like you know but at the same time um again there is a need folks want want to volunteer. I mean, I'm getting emails and outreach from like nurses in town that want to be
part of of the team. Um, there's a lot of folks in town that have some kind of a background in public safety, whether it was law enforcement, you know, former military. It just depends on how much you would like to invest, >> right? So, I'm I hear the need for it and that people want to do this. I just
want to know does CERT exist in any fashion at this point >> and how many people exist? CERT has been organized. It was started back, it was resurrected under Mayor McKayan um when I took over. It's never gone out of uh circulation. We've never deactivated the
unit. The unit is down to less than a handful of people right now, which the captain here is looking to reorganize and re retool based on the needs of what we have and he has an opportunity to change that and make a different face of it. But it is a part of the the
government arm of the government and then he has every opportunity to direct it to how he's east but it it is it is an operational functional unit as we speak today. >> Okay. So when was the last time it it was used >> actually there are a few members that do
make deliveries to seniors and that happens weekly. >> Right. But again, you know, that's that's a weekly project that is done and it's been done since >> co >> um as far as you know, deployments.
>> Been a while a while, >> but we've also changed our programming here in town like the Fourth of July fireworks and so on. So, I mean, I think it's a it's a great thing to have have a a force that can go out and even maybe help us reduce costs in terms of
overtime, but what I'm sort of hearing from you is that there's an overlap between uniforms, accessories, and field safety because for field safety, you also said that that's vests. So, can you consolidate that and figure out what your what are you actually looking at?
We we have half a year left. What are your real costs for vests and for a team? >> We we also looked at um like barriers, temporary barriers that's included in this for field safety equipment. Um so like OEM branded temporary barriers that
you can put up or close a site off or so that's all included in the field safety. So, I'm just wondering why that has to be an additional purchase and not use the materials that we currently have from police and fire for quartering off a an area.
>> Yeah. So, we a lot of that the barriers have dwindled down. They're broken. They're old. Um, and we want something that our OEM and and obviously our public safety personnel I think are going to respond in kind along with OEM, but we want OEM the ability to also, you
know, deploy when necessary and and have their own equipment. >> So, >> also it shows a commitment to our our county OEM partners, too, um, that, you know, we're taking this seriously. And, um, I I think that's really important. And that's part of reestablishing
um you know a commitment to to funding. >> Since OEM is so essential, are you going to be actively looking for grants to cover this? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Um and when you talk in terms of uniforms, are you mainly talking about
vests? >> No. >> What are you talking about? I mean, they've had like literal not full uniforms like public safety personnel, but um you know, polos um in some cases long sleeve versus short sleeve because
it's indicative of the elements. Um they have to be embroidered because you're not just giving them, you know, they again they don't have to meet the standards of like fire for example, uh where they can cotton versus a blend. But again, the point is you have to
outfit folks, right? Because >> you need shell weather resistant shell. >> You have you have an example right here. >> Yes. Right. That's an identifier for someone that is >> right. I paid >> associated with town working with the town.
>> Um and don't want to have someone nondescript. I mean because it becomes a safety issue too. >> Right. And we're asking our volunteers to do a lot. And you know, providing them the the equipment, I think, really goes a long way in in making them feel
like, hey, you know, thank you for doing this. You're an important contributor um to the safety and welfare of the other residents. So, um >> I just feel like it's it's a lot of different uh clothing that you're asking for. or you're asking for a jacket, a
sweatshirt, a I mean, when we're just starting up, shouldn't we just be looking at vests, which can go over anything >> that that anybody has, >> you know, get get the force in place, restart, the people who have been on on
the um website as I don't know if they've done anything in the past couple of years. Um, but doesn't that make sense to to just start off with vests >> or or with crossing guard identifiers or something that is a little bit less
expensive than a uniform, a jacket? >> I mean, honestly, I would offer two that just equipment is not enough as well. We're making the assumption that we still have the same condition, brand new equipment. And I just mentioned that we
have, and this is OEM, this is OEM overall. We were, I'll say, underpowered, right? When it came to the 75,000 gallons >> at six Robert Court, >> we needed two more trash pumps because that water was actually seeping into
seven Robert Court as well. >> So, you know, if if you start adding that, we have portable generators. Like I said, when we start having these large scale events, >> summertime, >> misters, misters, >> mist, right? We have the misting tents. uh they've provided relief over the
years for different events. You need bodies a to set them up and b they typically need to be in distal locations where you just don't have outlets available. >> And one of the things we have to be cognizant of too is that the department of labor is overseas these volunteers.
They work for us in in the essence of whether they're volunteering or getting paid. They are an employee of the township of West Orange and as such we have to provide them with the the safety gear that is expected of the role of the position. So just giving a vest is not enough to cover. We need identifiers, we
may need helmets, we may need gloves. We need to protect them. If we fail to protect them, they get injured, it goes on our work and then it becomes a problem. >> Yeah, good point. >> I I just have one final question. >> Covered under when they're on deployments, they're actually covered under the talent's insurance, too. Yeah, they're discovered on the workman scout
and everything else because and if we fail provided that could cause us even it could cause us, you know, more problems later. Correct. Okay. >> Can can the county help us with any of these items with these expenses?
>> There are some things that just come from the federal program, but again, that's subject to cuts just like anything else. Yeah. And it's not the county's responsibility >> for our town. In fact, um, some towns have actually done other things, but you
know, this is our responsibility here. I just said that we have a major event coming and there's no money from the federal government all the way down >> yet. >> It's our responsibility as well as the next snowstorm or hurricane and so on and so forth.
>> So, okay. Council. >> Uh, no. You answer my question with the misters. Uh, my my concern was just that are we are we duplicating anything in the other departments? I'm fine with this otherwise. And I really appreciate
you, you know, taking the initiative to make, you know, make changes needed to protect our community. So, thank you, Captain. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, thank you, Captain. Just wanted to um if there are no other questions for my colleagues, move for
the adoption of the uh OEM. >> Oh, hold on. We have feedback. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Thank you for what you're doing. I think um health and safety are the >> basic services that should be provided by government. Um but we have a question
about salaries and wages. We don't see them related to OEM. Does that mean that you are being paid out of the fire department budget? And what happened to the budgeted salary and wages from last
year's budget that was under OEM? >> So, uh I can answer that. Um so the stipend is is before the OEM coordinator is part of the fire salary and wage. It's listed as a a separate stipend um
for the captain. Uh, and then as far as last year, we didn't have any OEM SNW as a stipen because it was built in to that previous employees salary.
So, it wasn't broken out. It was part of the base pay as set per the salary ordinance. >> Thank you. >> Now, if I can go ahead and if I may. >> Go ahead. Sure. I mean, like, look, you know, it's it's $4,500.
>> Say less. >> Yeah. Say less. >> Say less. >> It's less. >> It's $4,000. >> It's $4,000. I'll second. >> Okay. >> All right. Hold on. Sorry. Councilwoman
Paselino. >> Yes. >> Councilman, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Spark, >> yes. The motion carries. Okay. And I do thank you. Good luck. Let us know what you need.
>> And uh I see we have one more person here. So I think we're done. >> No, we got we got to get it done. >> Let's get it done. >> We have Mr. >> Notice. >> He was on the list. >> He was on the list.
But he I vote that I make a motion that we stay longer. >> I think we can just do him. >> I can't stay. So >> Well, can't you Well, do you No, she if she if she doesn't stay, you could take the minutes or the attorney. >> He said there. >> Yeah. >> How long should it take? We got to get
this done. You want to ask a thousand questions during the night? This gentleman came in. We're going to send them home, >> right? And the tax is pretty easy. I mean >> I mean if you need to grill him for an hour we we got we're never getting this done. >> I'd like to if we can
>> contractual let's get it done. >> Hopefully 10 15 minutes. >> We're going to do it quickly. Let's be efficient. >> Yeah. Poor guy came in. >> Okay. want to welcome Mr. D and even our our
tax assessor to his I think it's your first hearing that you attended. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Happy to be here. >> 68. >> Yeah. 68. >> 86. >> No. >> No. 68 >> in tax collectors. 68.
>> 68. Okay. >> So, we're going to start on page 86. This is the tax assessor's. Uh >> I just said that. >> Yeah. No, no. I know. I was saying 68 is tax collector. That wasn't the right page. You were right with 86. Yeah.
>> Just reverse it. >> It's funny how that worked out. Yeah. Um so there is a decrease in base salary and and that's because the tax assessor who remain unnamed
is working in a capacity of part-time for the municipality. So you know I remind the tax assessor is one of the statutory positions we have to have a tax assessor just as we have to have a clerk and a CFO and a tax collector. Um uh so Mr. Neman is working in a
part-time basis uh with modified hours for us. So that that is the the driver for the reduction in the salary. >> All right. So So this was not a a salary cut in half even though it's part-time because he's worked full-time for a
couple of months. Is that correct? >> No, you've been >> uh full-time since 2023. >> Yeah. So, I started in April of 2023. I took the modified hours starting in January of this year. >> Um, and and part-time does not
necessarily equal halftime. And and I'm also uh doing work remotely from home. Like in the office is a certain number of hours, but that doesn't mean the work doesn't get done otherwise. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, when you say part-time, how many hours do you give?
>> It really depends on the time of year. So, appeal season is is a lot heavier, right? this time of year there's a lot more work to be done whereas other parts of the year when there's less going on it's fewer hours. So it can range from you know uh in the office it's a pretty consistent um six hours a week but it
can range from uh that six hours a week to more like 20 hours a week. So he's a salaried employee does not receive health benefits and is no longer in the pension system for the
township. So, >> can you handle this entire town as a part-time employee? >> I certainly believe I can. Yeah, I I have been uh for the last three months, and I think I've been doing a good job of it, and I'm I'm more than confident in my ability to continue doing so.
>> So, do we need a rebate from the prior years when you were working full-time? >> I don't believe so. >> I'm kidding you. Okay, that's it for me. Okay, >> council moved >> moved to consent. >> Not yet. >> No, she has a question.
>> Um, so 6 hours in the office and those office hours are only evening hours. Um, is it I guess customary in other communities for the tax assessor to only have evening hours >> when there's a modified hours situation?
That is quite common. Um, I do make a point because my staff is invaluable in supporting this uh this office generally, but also with this modified hours. And so I make a point to try to come in during the week uh to visit with them, check in, make sure everything's going well. That being said, I'm not as
comfortable putting that as a consistent hour because I can't guarantee when that'll be in any given week. All that being said, um the modified hours being in the evening is is pretty customary in in in modified part-time towns. Yeah. So, if um someone did need to come in
during daytime hours and they needed to see the tax assessor, can the other persons in your department fulfill those needs? They they can do 98% of what needs to happen. Um there's a couple of things they'll either need to consult me on or I can address um either remotely
or when I'm in the office in person. That being said, if there's a specific circumstance that requires I be uh in the office during the daytime, I'm more than able and happy to make arrangements to meet with that person during >> my next question. If someone needed to come in during the day, would you be
able to accommodate that request? >> Certainly. Yeah. >> And how much time do you need if someone is it maybe like a week in advance, 48 hours in advance? What what would that look like for you? >> It's really going to depend on the circumstance. There'll be days I can do a day of. So, for example, earlier this
year, I needed to produce a document for the county and I was able to be here, you know, within the hour basically. Um, and so that was very quick. If it's a circumstance where they have a very narrow window, they can do it and I happen to have another responsibility. I
may need a few more hours notice, but I can be very responsive. >> And this is um a non-union part-time position, so do we pay overtime? >> No. No. He's salaried and exempt.
>> Council, >> and your staff, they need you any given time of the day. You're accessible to them. >> Oh, certainly. Yes. Both by phone and email. >> Yeah. >> No, I'm good. Am I good? Uh, anybody?
>> My questions are for page 88. It's the uh OE. So, >> I don't have anything on this. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> No. Sebath, anything on this page? >> Yes. >> Okay, come on up. >> Sorry, there are a lot of other
questions on a simple short pitch. Okay, I think there's some general confusion. Um it how do I um ha have you ever heard of a part-time
tax assessor before? Is there any precedent for that? >> They're almost all part-time to be honest. >> Yeah. And they have multiple jobs and it's it's just what the the the position has become. >> Has has there been one here in West Orange?
>> No. >> No. But you have one in Bloomfield for the last five, six years. >> Nutley for the last seven, eight years. Um, you have a lot of them out there. The Nutley one, I think, has six towns,
right? Uh, the Bluefield one >> to uh approving this and moving forward with this decision, we actually consulted with the county and we we got blessing from the county to move forward. So this wasn't something we just dapply did without any consultation
or things of that nature. So we did we did speak to the county on and and I have spoken to the county assessor on many occasions about how things are going. I check in monthly per or even periodically more with him just to see what's going on because as a as a fact right now we're going through appeals
and Mr. Neman has been appearing at the appeals and so you know we're comfortable with this this circumstance as it is right now. Um, okay. And, um, there there are a number of questions. So, um, I believe you said that you're working typically
about six hours a week for the township. And, um, we can all do the math. $75,000. >> Um, it seems I I know I don't want to get into personnel, but it does seem like a high amount for six hours a week.
>> I want to be clear, that's six hours in the office. That's not necessarily work. That's six hours of office hours where if a resident has a concern, they can come into the office to meet with me, discuss that sort of thing. That's not six hours of work. That's six hours of time sitting in town hall in groups with
10. >> I see that. Um, and do you have a full-time job someplace else? >> I I Mr. Please don't answer that. This is getting too deep into personal issues for a public session. >> I think those are all of our questions.
Thank you on on this stage. Um, I kind I'd like to follow up on that. I that I did not realize that you're working full-time someplace else. That is a bit of a concern. I mean, is there are there sit situations like that
where somebody has I understand having part-time jobs and being being a part-time tax assessor in several for several municipalities. It does concern me that you have a full-time job where you are someplace else.
>> Mr. Ruden, again, I'm going to ask you to press pause on the line of questioning if you would. I don't think we're getting too deep into personnel issues. >> Okay. >> Without having provided notice, >> raising that as a as a concern. Should you want to provide notice, you could provide notice and ask those questions, but without
go down that road. >> So, are we going to table this page? Are we going to approve this page? Where are we? I >> I'll make a motion to approve this page. >> I'll second it. >> Which page was that? 86 page 86.
>> Um, hold on. Sorry. Uh, >> can I just ask a question? Are we planning on keeping this um situation for the long term or is this a temporary situation that kind of fall into personnel, right? You said we're going
to terminate you or >> I don't think Mr. He's going to be let go at the end of the year here. No, >> someone answers. I would be open this Um, I'm going to take a vote on the
>> page. This is page page 86. Yeah. >> For approval of page 86. Uh, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruding, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarfa,
>> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. 88. Okay, we're going to >> 88. >> 88 appraisals. >> Um,
>> council president. >> Yeah. Okay. So, we're now on page 88. I wanted to >> I'm sorry, Councilman, you can please move it. I can wait. Connect. >> I I wanted to ask you about appraisals. We we budgeted for 50,000 last year. We
spent under six. Why are we budgeting for so much appraisal work? And how much have we spent to date on appraisal work? >> I I don't have the toate figure at the top of my head. Um we're we're budgeting
so much because appraisals are not cyclical, but it really depends on the year and the tax court cases. So, uh, the way a property tax appeal works for those not familiar is it either originates at the county board of taxation or the state tax court.
Appraisals generally come up for state tax court appeals because those appeals tend to be larger of higher value properties. Think your big commercial properties, uh, particularly valuable residentials. That's when we're going to seek out an appraisal. Um, in most cases, the state tax court, like much of
the court system, moves slowly, however, doesn't move all that quickly. And so, we'll have cases that build up over years. And the appraisal will only become necessary in year two or year three. And so, being a year out from the reval, we're closer to the time period in which we're going to start meeting
those appraisals because uh the appeals from last year are going to start coming up for hearings and trials. And so that's why the the budget is there and uh why there would have been less paid last year ties back to the fact that the appeals were largely cleaned up for
prior to the reval year uh when the reval came into effect and so we really didn't have that many appeals outstanding in state tax court and so didn't have many uh appraisals needed for those trials. >> How many are now outstanding in in court? in state tax court. I think it's
around a hundred total because we had around 70 this year and there were probably about 30 from prior years. >> Wow. >> And how much is each one when you when you're looking you're looking at how many how much how much does each
appraisal cost when you >> when you do this? >> Depends on the property type. And so the appraisal for a residential home is going to be very different than an appraisal for Essex Green or or West Orange Plus. >> The thousands. Councilwoman Williams. >> Thank you, Council President. How many
commercial appraisals uh or tax appeals do we have right now? >> It's it's probably of those um hundred I would I would say it's probably around 80 that are commercial properties. And so >> and that varies from low value, you
know, right on the edge of million dollars commercial to more high value properties. >> So I would just think and and certainly um >> it correct me if I'm wrong, but we just had the reaval and then we had tax
appeals up until April 1st of 2026. M >> so if those are residential or do we know what the distinction is so that we can try and evaluate whether they're primarily more commercial might cost a
lot more or if they're just residential and if they are going to be abated or reduced and the town has to pay back that money you usually that goes through at least a year before you have to pay
that back. So if you have, so for instance, are we paying back in 2026 um tax appeals from 2026 or are we paying tax appeals from 2025? Well, we don't know because they may be logged up in court.
>> It it's going to be a mix. There's going to be prior year appeals that are are paid and there's going to be current year appeals that are paid. There's going to be some that, you know, the prior years are withdrawn and the current years are are are kept. It really it's it's case by case. So would it make sense then since this is case by
case and we don't really know to reduce this by half and if you need more money to come back to us. >> There's really nothing to reduce. We don't ask the taxpayers to to truly fund this. We fund it from the reserve for tax appeals. So what we do is, you know, every year there's a a contribution to
the reserve for tax appeals, but then we evaluate what our exposure is um from a liability perspective from our state tax appeals and our our county boards and we can take money from the amount to be raised by taxation, the the major
anticipated revenue, and basically put a little aside to pay for the appraisals, to pay for potential uh appeals and that's how we fund the operations here. So really the ask every year is like a hundred something dollars from the
taxpayer because of how we utilize the reserve for tax appeals. >> It's 50,000. >> No, it's 80. It's not 50, >> right? But it's funded by the reserve for tax appeals. >> Okay. So it's >> So we might have a line item for 50k because we're going to have to do the appraisals. >> Oh wow.
>> Right. But look at the overall ask. It's $156. That's what uh I was looking at the first budget, >> right? And and and we we >> if we don't use much from the appraisals, we don't take much from the reserve for taxes. We only take what we
need to to pay for it. >> Okay. Okay. >> Right. >> So this this really does not I mean everything impacts the taxpayers, right? If tax appeals will impact taxpayers, but as far as for paying for
the defense of it and paying for the legal experts that we need to fight the cases, we pull from our reserve. >> Okay. Is there Oh, go ahead. >> How how is that reserve set? Do you do you decide how much we're going to put into the reserve? Well, again, I would
see what the overall liability exposure is, and then yes, I I can decide to take that from the amount to be raised, which is the the tax revenue that goes to the municipality, I can pull some of that aside to fund these reserves. So, not
only for the appraisal work itself, but if we had to pay uh a refund for state tax appeal, um can come out of that reserve. So to me it sounds like it still is tying up tax dollars. >> Yeah. But it's not from it's not from an
appropriation. It can come from from the revenue because obviously like the revenue even though we asked for you know $40 million in tax revenue. We can get more of that, more than that, because Jacob is going to send out his
added and omitteds um for all the work done on, you know, you go and get permits for your home and you add another level to the home. We're going to collect more tax revenue from that. So, we have that every year. So, we're getting more tax revenue than we
hopefully anticipate. And then I can take some of that and put it aside for the reserve for tax appeals. Now, wouldn't we know about what appeals are on the agenda right now because they would have had to have been filed >> for April 1?
>> By April. So, wouldn't we know exactly how many appeals there are right now? >> I I I could pull the exact number. It's just not in my head. >> But it's more the exposure and and and Jacob could say like not not every appeal is obviously going to go through
or we may settle on certain appeals. So it it's not going to be like cut and dry that skunk outside. Um >> it's smoke. >> No. Uh um so again, we we would talk about what
the exposure is. >> But as far as this line item, it's it's really nothing in terms of of tax impact. It's $156. All >> right. Does CB have anything on this? >> No. Okay.
>> Move to seven. >> I did want to ask about the situation with the pilot related >> transaction >> over there behind shop ride. >> Okay.
>> Just wanted to get an idea about what happened >> there. Uh 74 >> primarily to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yeah, >> that was a file that I never should have been on.
>> During the the rebal, we go through and we have to update all the records and we need to be told what properties to take off the tax roles. essentially we just the way we need to be told what properties need to go on the tax roles when an added assessment comes about and we just didn't receive
notice in time to remove it from the tax roles uh based on the pilot agreement and so the list had been filed once the list is filed it's set in stone there's no real going back um and >> for 2025 in this case
>> yeah you you can only go forward in any given assessment circumstance right there's there's very you can do a tax appeal you can do a correction of errors until a very early point in the year, but once that's done, the tax list is the tax. And so, um, we just didn't get
notice in time that it needed to be removed >> and it was valued by our revaluation company. >> Who is the that tell that gives you that information. >> Usually, it comes from within the municipality. There will be circumstances where we'll receive uh a
notice from the owner of a property letting us know that, you know, this condition has been met. It's it's not one set circumstance but >> so this is the responsibility of the property owner to to to give us that information. I think that's really depends on the specific agreement but uh
there's no like in the there's literally a handbook for assessors and in the handbook it doesn't say you will receive the information from X right it's really situational where it comes from and and and so >> usually I will get it from within the municipality but there are circumstances
where for this is was in a a prior municipality in which I worked but there was a pilot agreement that kind of everyone on the municipal side had forgotten And so the property owner had emailed me and said like, "Hey, why did this pilot not go through?" Right? That was a different municipality that was not West
Orange, but there were circumstances where where where things I I can't say it only comes from within the municipality because there have been circumstances in other places where it's come from without >> Catholic. If I could not give up my my
Thank you. uh who actually eventually notified you that this that the part of the property uh assessed value was to be taken off. Who or what entity was was late in telling
you that? >> I I can tell you how I found out. I can't tell you who was late in telling me that. I can tell you that John uh gave me a call and said, "We got to talk about something." talk. >> I'm sorry. I just It's like a cancer
doctor calls you up and said, "We got to talk about something." >> May have even ran up some. >> So So just to put this in perspective, just so everybody knows, we actually have a slight reduction in our uh uh our tax base, >> net value taxable.
>> Yes, I I know. I hate that word because nobody but you, me, and Mr. Ziniac know what it what it means. Tax base. Everybody understands that. But just just so you know, it actually resulted in a reduction in our tax base this year. And the the real problem with that
is when the tax base declines, uh, everybody's taxes go up a little bit more because you have to take a little bit bigger piece of pie out of the tax base. But I did want to bring this up because in the previous valuation revaluation, I don't know if any
anybody remembers this, we had a similar problem there where a property a commercial property in town was put on the books at like 25 times what its real assessed value was. And we had a same
situation there. So, uh, unfortunately it happens, but I just want to bring this up because, you know, it has to do with people's taxes. But anyway, that's that's all I need. >> Yeah. Can I just ask how do we keep this from happening again? What measures can be put in place to ensure this never happens again?
>> So, I mean, well, we're probably going to have to do another reevaluation in 10 years. So, whoever is here, I would say, and Jacob probably is better equipped to to say this, but we would have to obviously any pilot agreements, we would
review to make sure that there is, you know, if it has a land value, it can have a land value, but based on the agreement that there's no improvement value that ends up on the books after the reevaluation company does their um their work.
>> So, could we put that procedure in place? I mean, I think we need a procedure in place to ensure this doesn't happen again. Whether >> agreed and and I know that you especially for your commercial properties, you probably had an appraisal company review all your
commercial um um you know, based on the work that the revaluation company did. But yeah, if they didn't know that this is not supposed to be subject to taxation and supposed to have a zero improvement
value, they would have flagged it. But in internally, we need to make sure that we have a review process and and that all pilot agreements would would be compared against popping my P's here.
One of the complicated parts of the relationship between assessors and pilots is that the property is taken off the tax roles in some meaningful way, right? Which is >> it makes it more opaque to the assessor's office, right? And that's that's no fault of of anyone's other
than the design of the system which is saying you are not treating this property the way you're treating other property. Right. And so it it it is definitely something we can work on to make sure that >> absolutely >> even though the property may not be taxable, right? The information about
that pilot and the property still making it way between the >> to that effect. Let's hope we don't have any more pilots, but >> Councilwoman Castle. >> Yeah. So what's bothersome about this um is this propertyy's been around this
pilot was designated a couple years back. So, how come this past year this became an issue? >> I think it became an issue when we were going back and forth with the
entities legal uh representation on the amortization schedule and then we figured out, oh boy, they have they have an assessed value in their NVT. Um because we were looking at at what I
was looking at their land taxes and I saw this big improvement value and that's when I I contacted Jacob and I said you know we have a problem here. Um unfortunately we just didn't have a remedy because of the timets that he spoke about. Um
so >> all right fortunate. Thank you. Okay. >> I move to approve page 88. >> Second. >> Okay. Um
>> consent. >> Yeah. Isn't that Isn't that >> okay? Consent >> every all. >> Oh, in favor consent. I'm not I'm not going to consent. >> Then take a voice. Okay.
Okay. Great. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kakoviac, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> abstain. >> Thank you. Councilwoman Williams, >> as council president, >> consent.
>> So, two, >> I think it was three to three to abstain. Yes. Motion carried. Motion to adjurnn. >> So before we adjurnn, councilman, uh just want to read it to the record because I know we had some confusion. We do have meetings four and five posted to
the website. Um I just want to read it out from meeting number four, but we have next week we have the West Orange Police Department this on Monday, May 18th, and we are now going to go 4 to 10. Correct. We have to make a notice, right? board to 10 next week. >> It'll be the West Orange Police, the
West Orange Municipal Court, the for West Orange's Office, the Township Council, and then the presentation for the commission's pass joint meeting garbage collection, the one pagers. And what I'll do is I'll probably add the assessor onto this one so we can get to that.
>> I'm sorry, the collector. I'm sorry. We >> That guy next to you. >> Yeah, the guy. Not this guy. The other guy. Um and then on the meeting of the 5th, there is going to be a change. Um, I got to change out the library because I they they cannot make it that night. We're going to put them on meeting six.
I will update that and have that >> dates that May what? >> May 20th. We're going to have IT, finance, administration, utilities. I'm removing the library. Um, and we'll we'll put some of the or two other departments in place because >> just send a revision around.
>> Yeah, we'll do the rest too. >> Yeah. Well, the reconna one, I think, so that start meeting six. May 20th. You didn't have library on >> souvenirs. Did you say? >> Yeah, I'm removing it anyway. But the
one I have in front of me. >> Okay. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Take care of that. >> All in favor? I. Any opposed? The meeting journ.