Well, good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for June 30th, 2026. Uh, just before we get started, I have a couple quick announcements. Uh, Fourth of July closing. We will be closed July 3rd. Municipal offices will
be closed. There'll be no Jitney service. There, however, will be regular garbage collection on July 3rd. July 4th, there will be no garbage collection. Uh please be advised that the West Orange Environmental Center at 590 Mount Pleasant Avenue will be closed
July 3rd and 4th and due to extreme heat, garbage recycling collection will begin earlier than usual on from Wednesday, July 1st to Friday, July 3rd. Uh please place that curb by 5:00. Details about this are on our website.
And finally, just want to mention the council chambers here at 66 Main Street. There's a cooling station. Uh you can come in and beat the heat during regular business hours, 8:30 to 4:30 p.m. And you can check the West Orange Public Library website at wopl.org,
uh which is also a designated cooling station to confirm their hours. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to our council president. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Thank you and for all for joining us
both in person and on Zoom. Uh we're this is our budget meeting and hopefully it'll be one of our last or close to last. Madame clerk, >> if not the last. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5
of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the township of West Orange website on May 22nd, 2026. Councilman Koviaak, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams,
>> present. >> Council President Scarpa, >> present. >> Let the record show that Councilwoman Castalina is on her way. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Will everyone please rise for the uh pledge of >> allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their budget meeting. >> All right. So, we'll start with public comment.
Mr. Gibbons. Good evening. My name is Ken Gibbons. I'm a lifelong West Orange resident and reside at seven rates place. Professionally, I'm a CPA CGMA holder masters in tax safety. For more than three decades, my career has focused on
analyzing budgets, evaluating financial information, and helping organizations make sound financial decisions. Those are the skills I hope to volunteer and reviewing the township's proposed budget. I mentioned my background
because the information I requested and my interest in reviewing the proposed budget are based on my professional experience. As an auditor, I've been trained to analyze financial information, review support and documentation, and ask questions before
reaching a conclusion. Several weeks ago, I sent emails to the members of the town council and the chief financial officer requesting information that I believe was necessary to form a meaningful review of the proposed budget. My goal was simply to use my
professional experience to determine whether I had observations or recommendations that could assist in evaluating the proposed municipal tax increase. Unfortunately, as of today, I have not received any of the information
I requested. So, I have not been able to complete that review. The materials I requested require careful analysis and receiving them only as the budget approaches adop adoption would not provide adequate time for meaningful
professional evaluation. That is why I requested the information weeks in advance. I understand that I am neither elected official nor a member of the citizen budget advisory board. My intention was s simply to volunteer my professional experience as a CPA and
auditor to assist with the budget review process for the benefit of our community. We all share the same objective making the best possible financial decisions for the residents of West Orange. I appreciate your time and I remain willing to assist in any way
that may be helpful. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. So, anyone else want to make a public comment? Justin, >> good afternoon. Justin Goldman um here with questions today on the budget. Um but hopefully some productive comments
and savings. Um also just like to mention that most municipalities have already completed their budget. this practice of late adoption. Um, I hope we can soon get uh behind us. Um, we should move to multi-year budget projections coupled with transparent resident input.
I think that would greatly expedite our budgeting process while also allowing residential input. Um, that said, on the Department of Litigation and SL attorneys, um, what proactive HR or workers compensation procedures are in
place to mitigate litigation and township liability? How frequently are these trainings held and are they updated based on new and previous incidents? On page 22, line item 63, 2025, there was a $45 budget for ABC
litigation. The town paid over $85,000 for ABC matters. In 2026, the budget asks for $35,500. Yet, as of March 31st, according to the budget, we've already paid over $35,000. So my question is, if we spent 85,000 in
2025 and we've already spent 35,000, why does the budget only ask for $434 more? I'm sure we will have more expenses to cover. Line item 70, there's a parenthesis for $100,000. Um, I don't really know what parenthesis mean in a
budget. Um, was it spent? If so, why is nothing budgeted for 2026? um especially when we know we're going to have appeals because a tax bill is going to go out with a placeholder tax estimate that will lead to confusion and that will lead to people questioning what the appropriate amount that they're supposed
to pay is. What are we doing proactively this year as it relates to setting the stages for smooth discussion and negotiation for upcoming labor contracts? Having those amendable and proactive discussions now will lessen litigation costs in the future during contract negotiations.
on finance page 76 line item 70 there's $30,000 budgeted for miscellaneous for budgeting practices we should be detailing what these expenses are I can't opine on the merits or offer insight because of the nebulous nature of what miscellaneous means page 76 who
conducts our regular audit and what savings or findings have we secured as a result of the $102,000 annual expense um switching to utilities I'd I'd like to once again ask the council to consider participating in the New Jersey clean energy audit program. This free
program, free maps our municipal buildings, including schools, if we'd like. Willingboroough participated in this program, implemented its recommendations, and now saves over $700,000 annually, which is close to a tax point. Free program, lessen our
utility costs, save money. Let's do that. Page 87 on fuel. How much would we save annually with a more electrified municipal fleet? Also, page 189, electricity. Newark Academy saves 32% annually on its electricity costs due to
solar investment. I understand that's a school and we are a municipality, but can anyone speak to the potential savings our town would um experience with more heavy investment in solar and renewables, either solar carports or solar panels? Page 191. According to the budget in
2025, $649,000 was budgeted with an ultimate spending of $735,000. This budget asks for $750,000, which is an over 15% increase from the initial 2025 budget to now as it relates to our
street lights. How many of them utilize LED light bulbs? I asked this question last time and we were told that we've switched to LED in our buildings. I want to know about our street lights. Switching to LED bulbs saves 75% to 80% on electricity costs. So for every
incandescent bulb we have times 75 or 08 is a saving that our town can certainly experience. Um I hope we get to a place where data drives our decisions and that we can get those numbers at some point. Um, Maplewood, since we're still on utilities, implemented an equitable
storm water utility in its town that generates over $875,000 annually towards a dedicated storm water fund. This may help alleviate some concerns when we discuss sewer billing to have a dedicated funding source to address our storm water systems. Just an
idea to explore like the over 2,000 municipalities across the country have. Um, and then just on um 2011, the joint meeting, since we give them $4 million a year, can they help us with the mapping for our missing stormwater data? Um,
Millennium Strategies is our consultant for $60,000. Page 12 of the budget has a line item for federal and state grants that is blank. Um, I would like us to be able to compare the grants received to other similar municipalities for us to be able to determine the return on investment that we receive compared to
our neighboring towns and offer continuing education on page 44, but there's a $10,000 increase for the same amount. So, if we spend >> your time is up. >> Yep. Thank you. >> Great job. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Go ahead. Anyone else like to make a
public comment or see? No. Okay, seeing none, we'll close public comment. >> Is there a motion to close public comment? >> I'll make a motion to close. Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Public comment is closed.
Okay, great. Um, Mr. Jatiniac, did you want to start us off with um where we've been and where we're going and >> try the other? >> Wait a second. A second. Don't you want to have any response to >> Yeah, we could respond while we wait. Go
ahead. Um, Councilman Koviaak, I know you want to start us off. You had some ideas. >> Um, yeah, I I I wanted to respond to public comment. Uh, Mr. Gibbons, I apologize for my role in this, not getting you the information that you wanted. I will pursue this after the meeting and and see how quickly we can
get you the information. Mr. Goldsman, again, uh, you seem to be reading out of off of notes. Maybe you could just send those notes to council at westor.org or and we can uh be much better prepared to to get you some of this if not all of
this information. So, thank you very much for for your suggestions and that's that's all I want to do in terms of >> Councilwoman. >> Yes. Um uh Justin, a lot of the ideas that you've had I have also suggested and
brought up in meetings. Um and and and also a lot of the um initiatives that you're describing must come from the mayor. They cannot come from a council person even though I have requested this
information. Um, but I would like some answers from the administration in terms of these same questions, which are, are all of the street lights LED? That's number one. >> Yes. So, no, they're not all LED. Um,
I'm actually speaking with our PSEG rep now to get that answer for you, but he said um, he said no, not all, but they are working toward it. Will I have a a more full detailed answer response from Bob? >> Can we get a written analysis on the
percentage of lights that are not LED and what the plan is to create ask public? They're public service utility lights. So, we'd have to ask them. >> We don't own We don't own or operate or maintain those lights. We just pay for the usage. >> I understand. But we can request that
they all be replaced with LED. >> Yeah, we can ask that. Well, I I can I'm speaking to him right now, so I can ask him to give us a report. >> Okay. And the uh clean energy program that was suggested to do an audit of all
of our energy. Has that been has that been done by the >> We have examined um energy um cost savings. Uh we have done energy cost savings such as replace replacing the LED lights. We have been in contact
with other um providers, third party providers to look to do some savings. >> Well, PSENG evidently has a program that they provide this. When was the last the last energy audit that they did? >> I honestly couldn't give you that answer. >> 24. >> Yeah, a few years ago.
>> 24. >> Yeah. 24. Okay. I I don't have that answer in front of me. I'm sorry. But know by Councilwoman Williams response. Would you request another energy audit since it's free? >> I can ask them. Sure. >> Um
>> the some of the other some of the other issues we mentioned about ABC litigation. We will get into that as we get get to that page. and as as well as the late process again didn't start from us and the our ability to have meetings
has been impaired um because now it's summertime and people have been away um as far as an equitable stormwater utility is there any has there ever been any research done into creating that?
Yeah, our engineer um you know attended a a webinar few months ago about it. We applied for a grant um that would pay for the study uh for the stormwater utility, but internally we've we've been talking
about it. Um you need you need mapping storm water mapping to be able to do it. Uh and that's that's one of the capital requests from the uh department of engineering, a total storm water mapping. Um so
>> a grant to to achieve that goal. >> No, no, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. Um it would be a capital project, a phased capital project. >> Okay. I I just want to go back to the LED lights. In addition to the street lights that we pay for for the municipality, we also spend a lot of
money reimbursing private communities. Is there some way that we can get the message out that they their lights also must be LED? >> Well, I I just spoke with our rep and I'm going to speak to them tomorrow about of conducting an audit and then to get the inventory of lights. So, I'll have
that I'll get that answer for you. >> And will that include the private communities? >> I I'll tell them to use the private communities as well. >> Okay. And are you aware of any special lighting that Llewellyn Park uses? >> Aware of any special lighting? >> Yes. Do they are are they capable of
using LED or do they have old-fashioned lighting? >> I don't know that answer. I could find that up with >> Okay, I think that's it. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Oh, one other Yes. One other thing. The solar solar panels for our buildings.
Has anybody ever done a a look into >> We did. Yeah. Yeah. We looked at >> quite >> and >> just recently we looked at solar a solar carport. >> Well, not carport. the I'm talking about on buildings, not >> right. So, we looked at the carports and
we looked at at panels on the buildings. I think the issue with our building is the weight on the roof. >> Yep. >> Um and was there did they explore something with the school board a couple years ago? >> School board as well and they at this
point they're not interested in joining in that exploration. So, >> I mean there's been some success. Uh I think Union County has has done a lot of that where municipalities teamed up with their board of educations. >> So we'll we'll always look to to save
where we can in in utilities. We have to just measure it with the capital expenditure. >> And thank you. >> Are you finished? >> Okay, Councilman Williams. >> Thank you. Thank you uh for coming and sharing your concerns. Uh, I think uh,
Mr. Given is no longer here, but if you are listening, um, I do not recall receiving the email that you sent to council, so I am unaware of what those concerns and requests might be. And Justin, as always, um, sends us I have not seen email today, but hopefully
we'll be able to get those questions and get some answers prepared as well. Thank you. >> Okay, Counciloman Cassidy. >> Thank you. Hi, everybody. Um, thank you for coming down. Um, I did not see the email from Mr. Gibbons, so I apologize. I've been away and been trying to catch
up on my emails. Also apologize that you weren't able to have a budget meeting without me cuz I was on vacation. Um, but I do want to thank Justin for all the multiple uh recommendations. Ju just just real quick, so with a lot of these
programs, they all sound great and we could save some money, but you really have to do a deep analysis on all of them. Uh we did look into solar panels past few years. Uh when I was on the school board, they entered into an Honeywell project that actually I did
not support at the time and I'm glad I didn't because it wound up costing the district a lot of money a few years later. So a lot of these programs on the surface you just have to be really careful in the ones that we look into because in the end it could cost you money on the back end. Uh some of them
also have some upfront cost. But we'll just keep digging and we'll take any suggestion that anybody has and looks at it. Um cuz we always want to find cost savings. So um thank you >> council president. >> President if I could um
>> just to echo Councilman Koviaak um Mr. Goldsman can send us the his notes if if that's okay with him. Um, I tried to take down as much as I could, but there is a lot of good information in there and you know, maybe we can get some
action items out of it. So, great. >> Uh, that's I request that. >> Okay, great. And I would ditto that. Um, Mr. Goldsman, thank you. Your questions are always very thorough and um, difficult to answer on the spot. If you would email those to us in advance, I
think we'd be able to give you much more substantive answers. And um, Mr. Gibbons also um I did not get that email but I know you did request that information from the administration so I hope you will get it ASAP.
Uh I did want to just talk about the solar investment because I know I was interested in solar. I know there was something broadly that went out uh for the with the schools. there was some concerns about the design of it and that I think it wasn't really aggressively
bid and I think that had something to do with um why it might have failed um and I think we have to be careful because as Councilwoman Castelino said a lot of these solar deals are really not great deals and are costly and you really need
to understand exactly what you're doing um and be able to analyze them in great detail before you take on something like that. We know the technology is also changing in that area. So there are a lot of variables and you have to make a wellthoughtout and wellressearched
decision. Uh in terms of the grants, um I really do think we can do a better job as well with grants. I know the mayor does direct uh Millennium to some extent on where she wants them to put their efforts. Um, I think it would be good,
you know, if we did some analysis of what our return on our investments are of our grants and maybe we can do a little little look at that. And uh, that's about all I have. So, Mr. Diniac, we'll turn it over to you. >> Thank you, Council President. Um,
welcome everyone to budget hearing number six. Uh I I I I think we're probably going to need one or two more budget hearings after this um to to go back through and make sure that everyone is comfortable with the proposed
amendment that we're going to need. Um you know, with our our reductions and some of our increases. Uh so just something to keep in mind. I I think we'll probably need another 8 to 12 hours of of hearings after this. Um,
tonight is a relatively light night as far as budget hearings go. Uh, I'm going to give a quick briefing on where we started and where we're at after four hearings. Um, I will update it once I have the notes from the fifth hearing. I
apologize. I I I had notes and and I had them saved and I, you know, I I can't find the file. So, I'm relying on uh I asked uh Madame Clerk to to update me on budget hearing five. So, I apologize. I don't have budget hearing five. Um,
after the the quick uh intro um and and where we're at after four meetings of cuts, we're going to go into the Department of Finance, which is my department. We'll move to the Department of Administration, which is Mr. Smaldo's department. We're going to have a talk
about utilities, which is uh fuel, electricity, street lighting, fire hydrants, water. Um, and then we're going to move into uh what we're calling litigation and township attorney. Uh, and then, you know, hopefully we'll we'll be done for the night after that.
Um, so, as always, uh, I direct everybody watching at home. Um, this is the township website. We have a nice scroll when you're on the homepage. If you just, you know, scroll down a little bit to the middle of the homepage. Um,
wait. Where'd all the the good stuff go? Oh, here we go. So, we have a link to tonight's meeting Zoom link. We have a link to the the budget section, which I'm going to click on now. And we're going to click into the proposed budget.
It's a PDF document. It's searchable. It's legal size. if you're printing at home. And I'm going to start right at the beginning with um with what everyone's really here for, and that's the increase on the average
home. Um so, the mayor's budget proposed a a 6.8% uh 6.8 8 84% increase or $279.54 on the average home. Um this despite uh
record setting snowfall and increasing energy costs and just operating in a high inflation uh environment which we have in the last few years. Um thankfully with the help of the council, the sebab and administration, I'm
counting myself in that. Um we've been having budget hearings where we've been able to reduce uh the proposed increase. Um let me open that or let me go to that sheet right now. Uh so through four budget hearings we've
reduced appropriations by $352,000 or $21.82 on the average home. Um, again, I'll update for meeting five and for tonight's, which I'm sure we're going to have a productive meeting tonight. Uh,
and that impact in the average home um reduction is is going to go up, I'm sure. So, um, thank you to the council and to CABB for all their hard work in in, uh, you know, working on this
document with us. So, uh I'm going to direct everyone's attention to to page uh what page we got on here? Is it 72? Oh, Councilman Gobiac.
>> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> No, you have the floor. I had just talked to council president before the meeting and asked for maybe five or six minutes to to throw out a proposal and it seems perfect as you're talking about what the taxes the proposed taxes are. If I could just get five or six minutes
just >> for uh >> right you were going to do it for four >> an idea. Yes. Thank you. Uh I appreciate the council's patience on this issue while I explain my idea. I'm asking my colleagues to consider providing substantial affordability relief to West
Orange's taxpayers by suspending collection of the municipal open space tax this year. It's a big out- of-the-box proposal, one that I believe has never been tried before, but if we're successful, we will save taxpayers more than half a million dollars from
their 2026 tax bills. and that would be well over what we've collectively uh over many hours have been able to cut from the mayor's proposed budget uh so far this year. Uh this may be an opportunity to combine a lull in demand for an already wellunded open space
trust fund with the big challenges that we all face with the 2026 budget and proposed property tax increase. First, the municipal open space trust fund has a balance of more than $3.45 45 million.
The only expected draw in the fund this year is the final payment for the borrowing for Borg Park, which many of you know is the renamed Ridgeway Park. The payment is not quite $52,500. That's all that uh is on the uh agenda
at the for expenditures and for this year, and there's nothing on the near horizon. So, we're in a bit of a lull for open space purchases and draws on the trust's account. It looks like an opportune time to direct this annual financial contribution to a more
pressing need, and that's tax relief. Given the challenges of the 2026 budget and the proposed tax increase, I want us to not collect this tax this year, which will save taxpayers nearly $548,000 from their property tax bills without
impacting any current open space needs. And since we've never tried this, I was unable to find out the process to do it. But if the council is in favor of pursuing this taxpayer benefit, we can move ahead with the township attorney to determine the logistics of how to do it.
And given this process uncertainty, we should do this sooner rather than later. So I appreciate getting sort of last minute uh >> uh opening to discuss this. As background, the open space and recreation committee and trust fund was created by ordinance in 2002.
Interestingly, the last provision of the ordinance appears to contemplate a time when the fund may not be serving its purchase, excuse me, its purpose. Uh on uh in section 12 of the ordinance, it says, quote, "In the event that no
property is acquired under this chapter for a period of five consecutive years, the mayor shall review the activities of the open space and recreation committee and issue a report to the township council with recommendations and conclusions concerning the reserve in the open space and recreation trust
fund." Now, uh, people may have better memories than me, but the last open space acquisition I can recall was the approval of the Cresmont Forest purchase in May 2021, which appears to put us past the 5-year acquisition timeline,
but I I don't know whether that's true or not. So, I therefore move that the council authorize advancing to suspend collection of the municipal open space tax this year to provide taxpayer relief. Second that for discussion.
>> Thank you. >> Yes, Councilwoman Castelina. >> Yes. Uh I appreciate the um thinking out of the box, Councilman, but here's here's the situation. I'm prepared to vote on that tonight. Reason being that um there's, you know, obviously we have
not approved a capital budget in quite some time. We have some parks in need of repair. Colgate Park being one of them which is in um which needs to be updated
and with that on the table I know you know some of the open space money can be used towards recre or recreational facilities. So, I'm not comfortable in looking to cut that fund right now or utilize that fund
um because if we may need that as a resource to supplement the capital budget cuz we need to repair our parks. We went for two years ago debating to fix Lafayette Park, a much needed park which was
fixed. Um and I don't want the same occurrence to happen with Colgate. So, right now I'm not I just not prepared to vote tonight for for that. But I give you kudos for thinking outside the box. I had mentioned that a year or two ago about utilizing those funds and I know
everything was directed towards save the ridge road forest. So I don't know where my colleague stands with utilizing the funds for that but um I appreciate the the idea just not prepared to vote for it tonight.
>> Anyone? I think it's an excellent idea. Anyone else? Um I I too um again we looked at the fact that the population over $3.5 million and we're looking at uh ways to create savings and generate
additional revenue for our taxpayers for our residents. Um, I think that again when you've heard the report from the uh CFO that we've in four meetings cut about $350,000 from the budget, which isn't even a
point. Um, so we've been doing our due diligence. This is a way to again elevate es and and just uh save our taxpayers dollars. So, I can agree that maybe tonight might not be the night for us to vote and make that definitive
decision. Um, but if there's additional information that might be needed from the administration to give you more comfort, um, I think this is something that we should certainly do our due diligence, uh, investigate, review. Uh, if the mayor does have any type of plans
for, uh, utilization of these funds, I think that's something that we should be aware of. Um, and we're only asking for a freeze for this particular budget year. This isn't something in continuity. This won't occur perhaps next year. Um, but certainly will
provide some much needed relief. I I um think that everybody should go back uh do whatever you know research is necessary, but this is definitely a good idea suggestion thinking outside the box. So, thank you Councilman for bringing this to our attention.
Councilwoman Ruden, did you ever >> Yeah, I'm actually um pretty shocked. We had an opportunity this year to use our open space budget and preserve land instead of killing hundreds and hundreds of trees right
over a a ridge. The mayor decided not to use those funds. And now we have a bevy of funds because these funds were not used. I would like to do an analysis of what properties are still at risk before a decision is made on this. Um I do
recall that um one of the last properties also purchased was um directly behind the mayor's house. So, you know, I want to see if real properties that are at risk need to be purchased. Um, I'd also like to find out
whether or not we have fully closed on the Cresmont deal and whether we have paid off everything that that we um intended to before before I make a decision on this. And I also don't like the idea of using
what is intended to save our environment to regulate overspending by this governmental body. If we're going to look for real savings, I'd like to request a an analysis on the non-public safety vehicles that are being used and
a full analysis on all of the the costs associated with those non-public safety vehicles and eliminate that cost instead of something that protects our environment. >> Councilman, can you just um read to me
what the motion was? >> Certainly. Thank you. >> I therefore move that the council authorize advancing to suspend collection of the municipal open space tax this year to provide taxpayer relief. So just preliminary and I'm not
a lawyer but if it's created if this trust fund and this tax were created by an ordinance then they can also be uh suspended by ordinance. So, it wouldn't take uh um a great deal of time to do
this. But what I wanted to do here today was to say, let's move forward and see what the township attorney says about how we might change this. So, the vote today is simply to move forward because
if if I'm correct and we need an ordinance in order to suspend collection of the tax, uh we need to move forward on that and there will be more opportunities for the council to vote for or against this down the road. This
today is going to do nothing but move it forward to Mr. Samro, the town attorney. Uh we have as I mentioned uh almost $ three and a half million dollars in the fund. I talked to uh our CFO who said
there are no uh proposed draws on the account this year. Next year if we uh want to uh again collect the tax, there will be almost uh $550,000 more in the account next year. Uh, I I hope we have
closed on Cresmont because the the authorization was in 2001, I mean, sorry, excuse me, 2021 and we borrowed a ton of money to buy uh the property and it is not being funded by the open space
uh trust fund. Um, I can't answer many of the other issues that were raised. I guess they're a matter of opinion and and the future. But what I'm asking today is let's just if we can get three votes, let's move forward and see if we can save taxpayers
more than half a million dollars this year when we're looking at a big tax increase despite our best efforts. >> Do we know if Chrismon has been paid off? Do we have that information? Because that's obviously critical in terms of what the need is. >> That wasn't the question though.
>> You know, if it was part of the 2021 bond issuance, no. the the bond's not going to be paid off for I mean I had to pull >> I don't even know what ordinance it was part of um but if it's a bond I'm assuming it's not paid off. No. >> Okay. Well, we could get a more more of
an answer to that. Council >> if but it's not open space money that paid for it. I think it's general improvement bond. >> Okay. So >> So just a question about the process. I believe the open space fund was created by referendum.
It might have been. So I don't know if that has any bearings on what if we could pass an ordinance not to cease it for a year. >> This be a good place for me to jump in. Is that okay? Okay. Thank you. Um yeah, I think Councilman Koviaak is generally
correct that whatever process was used to enact the the open space fund, it would be that same process to retract it, if you will. Um so my understanding and just having looked at this very briefly since we just started talking
about it um it's the general procedure is adoption of an ordinance here followed by a public referendum. >> So I believe that same process would be required to um to to redact the ordinance now or to change it or modify
it in any way. Um, that said, um, I say that with some degree of confidence, but I would like to take a close and specific look at the authorizing statute that permits municipalities to do this work. It could differ from the general rule. I doubt it
does, but it may, and there may be alternate procedures to change or to to modify. In addition, it I'd like to look at the West West Orange's 2001, did you say, ordinance? um to see if there's any language in there that might open up um
other avenues to proceed. So, what I would suggest um is that tonight um municipal uh the council generally request that the township attorney take a look at this. It would not be a very complex, you know, you're not going to get a 30-page memorandum with 35 footnotes on this. Um
it would just take it would take a few hours to go through the statute, figure it out, um read your ordinance and then get back to you on should you decide you want to proceed in this manner, >> what would be required and could it be done for this budget year, >> right? You could take a you could I think we could authorize you, right, to
take a look at that. We don't you have to make a motion. >> We have to I would appreciate >> Okay. >> Well, while we often take requests um you know it's that we represent the entire governing body and if someone calls with a legal question, we of course answer it. um on something like this, you you might want to go on record with a general
sense of the council that you'd appreciate knowing what this process would be >> obviously because it takes some hours and there is some cost involved. >> I just have a quick question for you council. Um, so if this was created by referendum, which I believe it was before 2021 to collect the funds,
then are you saying that we would have to pass an ordinance and then it would have to be approved by referendum? >> Possible. And as I sit here without having researched it, I'm I I'd be willing to bet that that would be the answer we would land on is we would need
an ordinance authorizing a referendum and then a referendum. Yeah. >> Approving approving the change. And further to your question of earlier, um you talk about the need for um improvements to I guess playground facilities generally speaking. >> Um now I'm very familiar with Green
Acres. I worked in the state senate when a lot of that was adopted. And I know that the Green Acres open space funds being a staterun program don't allow hard improvements like that. Only passive recreation, you know, a gravel path or something along those lines. Whether or not those same rules apply in
the municipal open space context, I don't know. But I'd like to answer your question for you because it sounds like it's important. >> It's another important question to answer. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. That's interesting. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> I'd like to remind the public that this body cut the open space um budget by
50%. And um I think that we we would need to look into whether or not we have paid off the bond because we're certainly wasting money if we have an open bond for Cresmont. >> Sure. >> That would be a question. >> That would be an easy way to pay it
down. >> I agree. That would be a better use. >> Not one that we could ask for. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, we have a motion on the floor. Are we going to take a vote? >> Sure. Uh, Councilwoman Sec.
>> Councilwoman Castellino, >> at this point in time, no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> uh, I would say no until we uh, find out about the Cresmont and paying the bond
might be better. But if if we don't have a a large um amount of money to pay that down, then I would consider it at another time. >> Okay. So to be clear, I think the township attorney is being asked to hold >> Hold on for the moment. Maybe the next budget meeting if we get that answer, I
would vote for it. >> Sure. >> The budget. >> Okay. >> Okay. Mr. Daniac, >> I I just want to be clear that so there is um the council is requesting that research being done. >> No. No.
>> No. I was a No. Until we find out about the >> the Cresant >> to do the research >> to find out about Cresmont. >> No. We're glad to do it. >> We're going to find out about Cresmont. That's Mr. >> Datinia. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're going to find out. >> We're going to find out about Crest and
then we could vote to look at this. >> My understanding that the sense of the council, as we just heard by a 3 to2 vote against a motion on the table, we are to interpret that as um we should we should hold off until we get further instruction. Mhm. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> And Mr. Tiniac, you can get us the information on Crescent, right? >> Yeah. And I think it's 266021 is what I just found. That was the uh Cresmon acquisition for four something million dollars, >> right? >> Yes. Councilman Kro.
>> Yeah. I I just wanted to get a clarification. There was a comment that the open space trust fund budget was cut by 50%. Could I just >> Yeah. get some clarification of what that means. What what that's referring to. >> We already cut it down to like a half a
point, I think, from one one point. >> No, we just we we kept the the 547,000 year-over-year. So, we kept it flat. >> Yeah, it was reduced during the rev valve. We it the amount that was going
into open space was reduced by 50%. >> Right. because we we kept it the same so that it didn't jump artificially because of the reval. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Oh, can't. >> So, what year are you talking about that made this cut? Was this last year?
>> Last year. Yeah. When when the reval took effect, it would have jumped to like a million dollars, but we kept >> it went from a half a point to a quarter of a point >> essentially. Yeah. >> Okay. >> We kept the same dollar. >> We kept it again. So, we have we have
reduced it. Well, >> I don't understand. So, I I speak to me like I'm a fifth grader. >> So, whereas we generate the tax rate by the amount to be raised that we set via
the budget, the open space rate is set by ordinance. So, if it's half a penny, it's half a penny no matter what the NVT is. So because we have a revaluation and now the NVT doubles if we would have
left the open space at whatever it was one penny or half a penny it would have been a million dollar but we just kept the open space tax flat. So whatever we collected in 25 24 is what we we budgeted for in 2025. >> So is that a reduction or is that how
would you explain that to the public? >> Oh I would say no it's flat. I mean it's the same amount of tax dollars. But it was it was reduced last year and now it's flat. >> It wasn't reduced. It was reduced from a half point. >> So the rate Yes. The rate is is reduced.
>> Exactly. >> And that's that's the appropriate thing because when we have a revaluation, we don't increase taxes, >> right? >> Just because the revaluation, it changes the rate. >> Yes. >> If we kept the same rate, you know, we would have doubled everyone's taxes year over year. So
>> that's exactly what I was trying to >> understand. I I understand the interpretation of yes it's the rate did go down it was cut in half but the amount of open space tax collected is the same >> it would have gone up had it
>> would have yes it would have gone to the million >> yes >> okay >> and so we were looking at a four uh four million over four.5 million bond for Cresmont. So that's the
the bond that I'm just wondering if it's been paid off. >> Right. So we kept it in in notes, I guess, in 2021. I I'll do the research into >> Okay. >> You know, I almost pulled up Emma MSRB right here, but and I know the county gave us money, I guess, from their open space,
>> 750,000. >> Yeah. Council Castle. >> Yeah. I just want to remind the public we bought that property because it was we were in threat of 1500 units coming in to be built. So, and we protected the ridge. So,
again, yes, we had to bond it. We had to do we had to do to to acquire the property, but we also save from being overdeveloped at that point in time. >> Yeah. But when we have a break, I'll come up with then I'll come back
>> way statements are made. Sometimes we just got to remember, you know, things were done and I I'm going to I'm going to defend my vote was to protect this community from overdevelopment, >> right? >> I don't think that that's the point. The point is whether or not the bond was paid off, not not the value of land preser.
>> But the way you keep phrasing it, that's all. >> It just has to do with whether or not the bond was paid off and whether or not we could use the money in the open space fund to help pay off the bond. >> And that's fair, >> which would be my preference. >> Okay.
So, um, the first, uh, >> excuse me, to your point, that's why we have the fund, so we can protect and buy property. >> Exactly. >> If I could, since this discussion keeps going on, I am not proposing to take any
money that is in the trust fund now. All right? I'm not proposing that. I'm simply proposing that we don't put the $548,000 in this year. I'm not I'm not suggesting that we take the money out. So, if if the council majority wants to spend that
money on on uh paying off the bonds and it's legal, I'm I'm fine with that. But that's not what I'm suggesting here today. >> There. >> Okay. So, we're going to start with uh
with page 72. Um, this is the township treasurer. This is the operating expense line for township treasurer. The ask for 2026 is $1,749. Um,
I have a proposed change. Um, I've I've had some discussions with with uh Councilwoman Ruden about this already, but I'll bring it to everyone's attention here. Um so throughout this process we've had discussions about education coming from
a centralized um budget which is the department of administration. Um so I propose that we I ask that you cut uh line 081 for $429. Um I'm not going to need it in my budget
this year. Uh, actually, one of my uh one of my employees hopefully, fingers crossed, will get one of the uh GFOA scholarships uh and be able to take a class and attend the GFOA
um free of charge. So, fingers crossed on that one. So, I'm requesting that you cut 081 municipal finance courses for $429. >> So, so yeah. So, I appreciate you making wanting to make the effort, but you say
fingers crossed. So, I mean, we should have you should have trained staff and we shouldn't be rolling dice on your staff is trained or not. So, do you need the you know, 429? Are you okay? >> No, we'll do Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. The other the other point I'm going to make too is, you know, I called
you this morning to ask you a quick couple questions. I appreciate my colleagues coming in, but here's where I get frustrated as a council person. We're here tonight to do this budget and I appreciate my colleagues going in, but you're they're eating your time up during the day and then we're all
sitting here approving cuts and making them together. And so I get a little frustrated that, you know, only, you know, one of us is trying to, you know, saving money. We're all trying to do it together. But I I I'm not going to come in and manipulate your time. So, I'm
going to ask my colleagues, you know, why aren't we doing this all together at night and going to Mr. Datiniac during the day and eating up his clock when he we could all be doing this together? And so, we talk about the budget being delayed and it not being done and and so
I appreciated if we could just have the meetings here all together and we all talk about this together because it's it's just not fair the way the process has been running. And and that's the only time I'm going to say it. I appreciate everybody spending their time. Um, but I
again last year the way we did it, you folks did your cuts on your own. You came back, we sat here, and you gave us a new piece of paper. I was hoping that would be the process this year. Um, but I'll that's I just wanted to share that.
So, let's continue. Sorry, Council President. >> Go ahead. >> Okay, Mr. Tinian. Um, and then the other thing we're going to change 113 materials and supplies we're going to call uh flexible spending
account administrative fees. The $1,320 that we budget for that is to pay for a company called Wage Works. They administer our flexible spending plan for our employees, which is required of any uh section 125 cafeteria plan. Um,
flex spending plans allow you to put away pre-tax dollars to be used for your premiums or, you know, work not covered by medical insurance, such as like braces, you know, orthodontics work. So, we pay $1,110,000
$110 a month to wage works to administer the program. That's the whole budget for that. >> Okay. So, I'd like I'd like to follow up on your recommendation and make a motion to cut $429 from the municipal finance courses
uh line 81. >> Second. >> And um I'd also like to >> I'm so I'm sorry, but I is that a request to reduce by 429 or 429? >> By 420 by Okay. >> Yes. >> I'm reading this phone. Sorry. >> I should take the vote on that before
you go on. Councilwoman Castelino, >> no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you. And I don't know, do we need a a motion to just change the name of the category? >> No.
>> Okay. So, just 113, will we change to um wage flex spending account? And I I would also on that on that same topic um I'd just like to ask um the VA whether or not there is any plan to bring more people into the flex
spending account be bring more uh employees into that. >> So it's totally optional. We we can't force anybody into it. We advertise it all the time. Um you do have to make contributions to it. Um, so max
contributions $3,400. You can roll over $680. Um, you know, we tell everybody how good of a plan it is, but again, it's it's money that comes out of the net check, even if it is pre-tax. Um, and you know,
might be too much for our employees to >> I'd like to join it. >> Um, you I don't know if you can because you're not eligible for health benefits. So, >> okay. >> I don't think you could join it. >> Okay. >> All right.
So, I'd like to make a motion for consent on that page. >> Excuse me. It's C. Who's running the meeting? Are you running the meeting or? >> Yeah, we'll consent on that page. >> Is there consent? All in favor? >> Consent. >> I. >> Any opposed?
Sentent. So, the next page is page 74. It's the comprollers's office salary and wage. Before we move into that, um I just want to thank my amazing staff for all the incredible work that they do. Um, we
obviously take care of uh payroll for for the entire township, which in the summertime, you know, gets to be nearly 500 people considering all the pool temporary employees and uh and and summer staff. Um we have thousands and
thousands of account lines through you know a dozen funds, 22 bank statements. Um hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue that gets accounted for every year. Um we have probably 50 active
grants uh spread out between federal, state, and and county partners. Um, so I have an amazing staff and while I'm not going to name them, um, you know, we can see their titles up there and, you know, I just want to say how proud of how hard
they work and how I couldn't do this without them. So, um, and just in closing, I've I've heard someone say that finance, a finance department is the single most important department in an entire township. And they say you
it's more dangerous and you have to be have to have more courage than even police and fire. Um and I agree with that person that said that because that person was me. So >> well said. >> Um so getting into the controllers's office
salary and wage we do have an increase this year uh in base salary of 43,000 that is primarily driven by step and cola increases. Um, we only have one employee currently at Max. Um, and we do
have other employees uh in the steps and we are asking for a promotion for one of our employees from keyboarding clerk too to accountant. Um, that employee uh is welld deserving of that title, has an
incredible resume and and a work ethic to back it up. So, that's why the base salary increase is up 43,000. Um, we did ask for $2,000 in overtime this year. We have not typically had
overtime, but with the two major projects that we had going on and still are somewhat going on, the conversion to Prime Point, which we did on January 1, and um the conversion to Edmonds uh for finance, which is active now, and tax,
we're still assisting tax is active on July 1, which is tomorrow. Um you know, we did put some overtime aside, and we did utilize some of it. So, >> Councilwoman Rud, >> um I support um promoting an employee
that well deserves a promotion. However, I would like to u make a suggestion that the um raise or the promotion start October 1st to re in some of our costs on this. Um the 11,212
um reflects an entire year uh of promotion. So, if we only do three months, that will increase it by $2,83. That'll be a savings of800 um $8,49.
And also, um I would like to suggest that the overtime be be reduced by $800. So, those are both both ideas in this um on this page. >> Councilwoman, >> thank you. um certainly would like to
understand that these uh numbers were discussed because obviously I'm not sure where they're coming from and how they were calculated. Um and in addition to that, can you explain what the overtime is for? >> Sure. >> Thank you.
>> So the the first question is um I I would like this employee promoted to accountant step two. So what I did is I took their title, current title, which is keyboard clerk 2, and their current
salary, and I projected out the increase on a full year moving from keyboard clerk 2 to accountant. And so that's how I came up with the differential of $11,212. >> And when was your proposal going to take? >> January 1
>> of 2027 >> of 26. So >> if it was 27, I wouldn't even have it in this budget. So it's yeah January 26 work. So we're going to backdate the increase. >> That's that's what I wanted. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Because when I put this together, you know, it was beginning of the year. So
>> Councilwoman, >> has the employee been taking on the extra workload? >> Okay. >> More more work than ever. Um I lean on this employee like crazy. Uh the overtime the overtime was related the
what we've actually spent in the overtime was our first three payrolls with Prime Point. Um payroll one is is difficult even when you have a a your normal system because we make the majority of our payroll changes in
payroll one. Um so we had to make all those changes with a brand new payroll system. So there was there were a few hours of overtime for payroll one and then we had overtime for payroll 2 and three as well. Usually if there's small amounts of overtime I use it as comp
time and then that employee uses that comp time in the next week or so. Um but it was just the number of hours were way beyond what we usually use for for comp time. So we paid out which I I think I understand why you're
asking for $800. We paid out $1,100 in overtime in those three pay periods. So, >> and excuse me. >> Are you finished? >> I I was just going to ask one additional question because in our previous discussions, we've been preferring comp time as opposed to overtime.
>> So, why are we now not leaning toward comp time? I know you said it was more hours. >> Yeah, we usually use comp time. I mean, I I can't force comp time on on people. I needed to get those payrolls done. Um, obviously I need everybody paid and
>> so that's back though, right? That's already occurred. >> This already happened. This was for this was January and the first pay of February. >> Okay. >> So, >> so it does make sense that we could reduce the overtime. >> Yeah. We're not going to issue any more overtime. >> Okay.
>> No, again, this was >> you know it was these were tough payrolls like >> are you finished? >> Thank you. So my question was, are they enacting another program? You were saying you're bringing something else in or you didn't >> We have Edmonds. Um >> Yeah. So don't you need the overtime for
Edmonds? Okay. >> No, because Edmonds is my assistant comproller who does not get overtime. >> Okay. >> So that individual is leading that. So if that individual has to work extra hours, they work extra hours.
So we you can make a motion to what do you want to reduce it to 1,100? >> Um you can cut 800 out of it. Yeah. >> Leave it at 1,200. >> So we'll go down to 12200 then. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Just can you can we go over I'm sorry. What did you propose for the promotion? >> I would like to ask another question. Does this person meet the civil service requirements with her with his or her title?
>> We so we could say her. Um, yes. Yes. I made sure that I reviewed the education requirements and the experience requirements and this individual has master's degree in finance and accounting and meets the standard. >> Can you speak to the benefit of starting
this promotion later on in the year? Um well I think like you said you have a a reduction in the amount um in the amount of base salary I would need for the budget and
then I guess for next year next year you won't have a step if you're promoting on 101. So you would only have cola. So >> which would be an additional savings. >> Yes.
Okay. So, I'd like to go back to I'd like to now make a motion >> that motion on the floor. >> Yeah. First, we have vote on the 800. >> Okay. >> Reduction of 800. >> Was there a second on that? >> Yes, I second it. >> Okay. So, let me do that. Uh,
Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> For the overtime. >> Yes. To reduce it by $800. Um, Councilman Kovia, >> no. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President,
>> yes. The motion carries. >> Yes. >> Mr. Robin, >> before we get into discussion of starting this time for this person or whatever, just so you understand, I also echo Mr. Dinak's um comments about this person. She goes above and beyond. She's
actually performing this work as we speak now. she took on the work and I quite frankly um I think one she's been a great asset for us but also to start this in October when she's already doing the work now is kind of demoralizing >> okay
>> for the individual and and and the fact that Mr. Diniac is um very responsive to everybody here. He's very cognizant of of what we spend and everything else and he needs this staff. I um I I also believe that the finance department is
one of the heart it is the heart of what makes this run and then this person if she's working there and doing this work she's part of that that system. So um before you make whatever decision you make that's decision I support his decision. I think this should be back to
Feb January one and I think she's deserving of the promotion that and I think she's deserving of the of the work that you know because of the work that she's produced so far this year. So that's that's just my statement on that. >> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? >> I just don't think that that's the way business works that you get a promotion
retroactively. I think the way most businesses work is that you suggest somebody for a promotion, you tell them they're going to get a promotion and you promote them. we are in basic basically fiscal collapse. It makes good sense to promote this person but it also makes
good sense to do it on a time basis that works for the municipality. It also does not um open up the possibility that this person will be taking another step next year. This person will just be getting
cola. So this saves us money down the down the line as well. So starting in October 1st makes sense. >> Anyone else? >> So I I'm Oh, I'm sorry. >> Councilman Kovia, I come back. >> I I'm not in favor of punishing the
employee for whatever the decision was made because this punishes the employee. Oh, >> yeah. I I just wanted to make a comment as well. Um, I am curious why this wasn't presented in
January if the request and the added work was not taken on in January. I'm not necessarily supportive of waiting to October, but I think if we're going to approve the increase, it should not be retroactive. It should be begin when we
approve the increase. >> Exactly. >> Did you want to answer the question? Why? >> That's not um >> in January. I >> mean, I I don't have a good answer for
the question. Um and honestly, I mean, I I can't be the only one. I feel a little bit lost at even who is responsible for promoting, you know, is it just executive and administration can make promotions or do you guys make
promotions? So, how would >> I I really don't know. Um, you know, that's really never been answered for me. Um, and I'm sure everybody sitting up here, you can't be entirely sure of the answer to that question. Um, >> first,
>> I will say I I want to get this person promoted. So, whatever it takes, if you think October one that that's fine as long as it gets done, um, just get herself in the game. That's all. >> I understand. I just want to clarify. It sounds like this person has been working
as a clerk but has been doing the work of a real professional for quite some time. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I just want to understand for myself. Counciloman Castle. >> Yeah. So, you know, we go back to punishing our employees. we have, you
know, a and I've had two weeks off to really think about, you know, what we've been doing all year and the past couple years here and um had a lot of time to think and morale is down, folks. And the
reason for that is because we we given this perception that, you know, our public employees are the enemy and that's got to stop. You know, Mr. Datiniac is very responsible. he wanted to promote this person early. Um, we could point fingers of when we get the
budget, when we do the budget, blah blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, it's administration's role for them to appoint their people to promote their people. And yes, we are the purse strings and we control all that and you can flex your muscles when you want, but
we have to leave it to them, their daytoday. I don't know about anybody else up here, but I managed departments in my career, in my early career, and had people work for me. And people don't work long hours and put in overtime and and do things not on the clock and do
the extras without them feeling appreciated. Um, so if Mr. I'm good with Mr. Datiniac, if you're good with this employee and they've been doing the job all year long, I don't think it's fair. Um, yes, you're right. We'll save money. You could shake your head. Um, but we
can't keep doing this to our staff. And I think if we had done our budget on time in February, this person would have had the opportunity. >> Okay. But here's the thing. So we could when was the last 20 years was the budget ever done in February. >> No, that's why I think it's important to give it to the
>> and even you're with the school district. You still get retroactive. You still get retroactive. Except for this year they fired 350 people. And I get it. We don't want to move to that and and have that situation on hand. But it's a balance. Yes, we have financial
crisis. We're not firing 350 people, but we are in a position to be able to give a person that is deserving of the promotion for the work they've been doing since January 1st their their raise. I'm I'm good with with January 1.
Just a suggestion. You know, the Faulner Act time after time sets up uh it's our charter and sets up a process that requires both the mayor and her administration and the council to work together in the best interest of the
council people council people of residents of residents. So, excuse me. But wouldn't it just be very simple to put together a policy that says when somebody in the mayor's administration wants to promote someone, they let the
council know so the council can decide at that point whether this is something that they'll support financially. And it just just seems to make a lot of sense to me. I don't know. There's probably some law that prevents it, but it I
think we would avoid a lot of this uh if we just put in that policy that when you want to h when you want to promote somebody, just let the council know >> and we can tell you whether we think that at the time that that makes sense.
>> Yeah, I understand the ambiguity with the policies too, but I think it sounds like this person really deserves the promotion. I I just I don't know what businesses give retroactive promotions. If this employee is doing the job and she has shown that she is capable of taking on
more work, then let's reward her with a promotion, but not retroactively. If you give it to her before July July 14th, we are going to be in the position where we're adding in another step for next year. It does not make sense. I think
that any employee would be satisfied to know that they are recognized for the work that they are currently doing and are being rewarded with a promotion that will increase her this person's cola and steps going down the road. We have to be
responsible stewards. Everybody deserves to be well- paid. We are not the enemies of the employees. I really don't appreciate that type of language being tossed around to colleagues who are just trying to make this responsible
responsible choices for spending. That's it. >> So, I would like to make a motion to >> make the motion >> start the promotion as of October 1st. >> Well, we haven't even said we were going to do the promotion. So, shouldn't we
start with the promotion? >> Correct me if I'm wrong. the promotion is prerogative of the the township. I think it's just you're looking at the funding and I'll I'll defer to the >> That sounds that sounds right. I don't I I think you can do this on one vote in one affirmative vote to promote this person effective October 1st. Whether if
you don't want to promote the person at all, of course you you could vote no on that. If you don't if you disagree with the October 1st designation, you could also vote no for that. >> Well, the motion is to start it October 1st. >> Yeah. >> Right. which I would understand to be a vote, affirmative vote to promote this person, which again is the prerogative
of the administration, but obviously you're supporting that with the financial backing to do so. The real question I I think the the bigger question is the October 1st or today or retroactive. So, >> but that has to be made in a motion. >> I and I believe there is a motion now to
promote this person effective October 1st if I heard correct. >> No. Yes, that's right. That is what I said. >> That's your motion? >> Yes. Okay. That's her motion. >> But with no retroactive pay. Exactly. Yes. >> Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying. >> So, the promotion is effective October 1st and so so would the >> It's implicit.
>> Yes. >> Yeah. But is that an inappropriate act of the governing body to promote employees that they have no statutory authority over? Shouldn't they just be voting on the dollar amount? >> Correct. And
>> this is what I mean about that. No one knows. >> Oh, no. No. People do know. We know. It's just that the rules aren't being followed procedurally. And we we got a memo from our legal department telling us what the role of the governing body
is, what the role of the council is. And we just got that maybe like two and a half months ago in writing in a memo. >> So we know we just choose not to adhere to the rules. >> So as far as my understanding is that is the prerogative of the mayor or her
designate to make these promotions. That's what we did. >> That's correct. >> Yes. >> It is your role to say you're going to fund that $11,000 or the part of it. >> So, yes. >> Right. And Right. And so, effectively, >> that's really what it's coming down. >> Effectively, it doesn't come down to the
date of promotion as much as it comes down to whether to fund that promotion >> from January. >> So, then I can I can I withdraw that that motion talking about just >> it hasn't been I am withdrawing that
motion. Okay. and I will amend it to >> it's not an amendment. >> I will motion. >> I will make a new motion that this budget be reduced by $8,49 leaving in the additional salary base of
$2,83. Is there a second? Seeing none, the motion dies. I'd like to make a motion to uh consent on this page. >> A second or Okay. Okay. Uh hold on a minute.
>> Might want to roll call this one. >> I'm going to I'm going to um Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President,
>> yes. >> Thank you. The motion carries. >> Ridiculous. It's moving. Ridiculous. >> Council President, that is not accept. You're out of order. Go ahead. Let's move on.
>> Okay. Okay. >> I direct everyone's attention to page 76. This is accounts and controls. Um, the app >> still speaking. >> Sorry, Mr. Tiniac has a floor.
Oh, okay. Did you have Did you want to >> Well, we're not the section yet. >> We're We're not finished with the section. We'll get you >> consented on the page. >> Yeah, but she goes at the end of the section. >> I'm just asking when you'll recognize. >> We'll get you at the end of the section.
Go ahead, Mr. Tuna. >> Yes. >> Okay. Okay, we have accounts and controls. Um, the recommended budget is $372,950, $150 increase over the prior year. Um,
are there any questions from the governing body? >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Okay. We have a category here in 70 >> the miscellaneous. Yes. for miscellaneous >> a question from
uh Mr. Goldsman as well. Um so miscellaneous >> let me go through the the categories I mean the uh vendors for miscellaneous. Um so we do we have a company called Vital Records Holdings. They provide us
a secure um credit box. So that's about $800 a year that we spend on the shreddit box. Um we also utilize Battalia Associates. Um they work for both the tax office and
for the the accounts and controls office. Their work with the accounts and controls office is that they do a payroll analysis um every pay. So what they do is they they export our
preliminary payroll from Prime Point and they compare it against a database of all of our um our salary ordinances, collective bargaining agreements and uh they they do a variance analysis and sometimes they'll come up with, hey, you
know, you're paying Joe Smith $2,500 this pay. um we think it should be $2,400 and then you know we do some research and make sure that uh our um you know our our payroll uh profiles are
up to date and and correct in accordance with the um with the salary ordinance and the collective bargaining agreements. um sometimes still also do variance analysis on on overtime and you know we discovered one time instead of
entering in uh 10 hours we put 100 hours in. So somebody had a you know a a monster overtime report preliminary they didn't get paid it. Um so we utilized them uh for that payroll analysis and
they also helped us with the prime point uh transition in the beginning of January. Council Kobak, I thought I saw your hand up. Did you ever if Councilwoman Ruden still has the floor and I'm not sure whether she's yielded. >> Are you Are you >> You know, you ask me about
miscellaneous, correct? 070. Yes. >> Right. So um you've itemized um costs of of um 8 10,800 and 800. >> So we have a remaining uh balance of
over 18,000. Correct. >> Is it fair to cut that by 18,000? >> Yeah. So, the the like we said, the shreddit box is 800. Um, Battalia is about 10,800. Again, we spent a little bit more with them in the beginning of the year. Um, but, you know, it's a it's
it's pretty much they're just doing the variance analysis with us when it comes to Prime Point. So, um, yeah, there's there's an opportunity there for for some savings. So, you're recommending >> Yeah, I've had a conversation with
Batalia about um what they used to do in the past for accounts and controls. They used to provide reconciliation services. Um they don't do that anymore. It's their their services strictly are that they support the tax office and they do just this payroll piece for my office.
Um and we're winding the payroll um service down for next year. So, um, there's room to cut. >> Okay. So, I know Councilman Koviaak had a question, but >> Sure. >> Um, as soon as he's done, I'd like to come back and make a recommendation of and the thing we have is we we pay for
um UPS charges with our payroll, but it's minimal. We budget $375. >> Okay. Council Kovia, >> thank you. Uh, I actually have several questions. Uh on line item 201 forensic audit, we've uh budgeted 75 grand for this year.
>> Correct. >> Uh the deadline for taking in bids >> to perform the forensic audit passed at the end of last month. >> Correct. >> I haven't heard anything. >> Yeah, we received three proposals. Um
we're going to meet as a group to evaluate the proposals um as we would any sort of professional service. So, um, but we did receive three. >> Could you even say whether it's even in the ballpark to that 75 grand would cover whatever?
>> Um, no, I think it's double that. Um, based on I don't want to say too much, um, before we evaluate, but it's in that neighborhood. >> Okay. on uh on payroll services. Uh
according to this, we've only as of uh the first quarter only used 2% of the $145,000. Uh >> what's what's going on there? Can we have >> So the payroll services with our contract with with Provident Bank, which
is our main bank, um they pick up the first $75,000 of payroll services. That's that's part of the deal that they have with us. Um so in the beginning of the year we submit our invoices. Now last year when I when I came to the
council I I had mentioned that going to Prime Point we would see some savings because we would not be utilizing both Kronos which is UKG and ADP because that's how our payroll system used to run. We had Kronos to cover the time and
then we would submit everything to ADP and then ADP would pay taxes and do direct deposits. So we had we had two bills essentially for each payroll. Prime Point has now >> um consolidated that down to one. Um so
our spend on payroll is less overall. So, you know, I'm I'm sure we can get into it, but there's there is a savings opportunity in payroll services as well. Now, moving forward, like July onward, since I think
we've met our 75K with with Provident, we're going to be charging our own budget now. Um, but that's the deal that we have with the bank is that they cover the first 75K. >> So, you could reduce. >> So, you said there's an opportunity, but you can't quantify it. is up.
>> I I Yeah, I I mean >> I I think I would be comfortable leaving in like 108,000. >> Cutting it by 70,000. >> It'sund We have 145 in there right now.
>> Right. >> You'd reduce to 108. >> I I could do 108. Yeah. 58 as opposed to maybe 110 >> because I did the the math in my head for the prime point bills and then I know what the W2 bill will be and the 1094. >> So
>> such a CPA >> such a CPA. >> Go ahead. >> Counciloman Kelina has some question. Are you finished? >> You want to leave 110? >> So can we reduce by 70,000? >> No, it's not. >> He's talking. You're talking 37,000. Is that what you're talking?
>> I think it would be too much if we >> Yeah. Wait, can I >> hold on? I know Council Kina has the question. You have the floor. Are you >> Well, wait. Are you talking about 081? >> Yes. >> Oh. Oh, I'm I'm looking at regular audit. Um,
>> so the 108,000 number that you just put out, that's >> the 145. So, if we're going to do the 200 >> only 45. >> Yeah. If we if we left 80 in there, 80 in there, I could pay for the rest of payroll for the second half of the year.
If you left 80 >> because if I cut 80. >> Are you sure? We talked about cutting 70. >> How can we talk about cutting? And this is the budget hearing right here. How are we doing this? >> How did that come?
>> I I can do Well, we we went over some of the the expenses prior to >> Yeah, exactly. >> Looking at it now. If you left 80 >> Yeah. Hear me. >> All of us should be privileged to the same information. >> Yeah. I have to agree >> time like we can't having private budget
meetings with you as the CFO and we're not privileged to the information. That's why when anything comes from the administration, it comes to everybody. That's so unfair. >> I'm open if anybody wants to come to me or call me or
>> No, no, it's not your fault. >> It's not your fault. It's not your fault, >> Council. >> Oh, I guess it's I guess it's the fault of the council person who actually does the leg work. >> Oh, excuse me now. So here's here so here here's the problem and I apologize for for jumping on council councilman
Koviaak's time but councilwoman yeah it is because you put the you put the staff in a bad position we could all call and ask questions I call this I call them and ask questions all the time but again I expect to come here with the input we
give and and rattle down and not play let's make a deal >> and then it's the exchange >> excuse And I know you're frustrated cuz I'm frustrated, but but here's what happens. Then you put out on your Facebook page, you're the only one saving the town
money, >> and that's not fair cuz I saw that on my plane ride home and that sent me through the roof. So, we all all of us have to work together to reduce this together. >> It's not one person. >> Not my fault. >> Everybody for the public's sake have all
have input in reducing this budget together. All of us. We all should be getting credit in there, not we just not all pat ourselves on the back that we're the savior. So that has to stop consuming his time has to stop cuz I couldn't get a phone call in this
morning cuz you were walking in the door. So and now we're here tonight. >> Excuse me. So you could have a phone call and I couldn't be in person. >> No, you can be in person. You can be in person. I'm going to tell this to you and everyone else. I appreciate your
time. I really, really do. But it turns into I did it. That's got to stop. We're all working together on this. I know everybody's running for mayor except for me and we have to work together to get this done. We spent it's now 20, what is
it? 20 to six, seven, I don't know what the heck time it is. And we haven't gotten anything done. This could be so simple if Mr. Diniaak could just run off the new numbers that he had received input today of what he feel is appropriate and we could go on to the
next page instead of arguing for 20 minutes. So I appreciate I know councilman has uh questions. I sorry to step on your time but I would just like to hear the new numbers for whatever reason they are today and let's move on. >> I would have to agree and then we'll get
back to council. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Yes. I I recall and Mr. Dette, correct me if I I'm not recalling correctly, but we had a recommended budget for line
item 081 for $145,000 this year, >> and you were trying to say that there is room to cut that. Yes. >> And we're just trying to determine what that number is. >> What I looked at before, I can I can cut it down 70. >> Yeah. Okay, good. Thank you. >> And I can cut
>> And I think we should take your recommendation. And I can cut 110 while we're at it. I can cut 110 by $10,000. >> That was my next question. >> Thank you. What line I'm sorry. What lines are we on? I didn't mean to interrupt. >> So 081 I can cut 70.
>> So 275. >> What are the new numbers for each line? That would be easier for me. >> 75,000 for 081. >> 75 for 081. >> For 110 it' be $10,000. Okay, thank you. >> That would be the new number. And for
070 miscellaneous, I can cut that to 12,000. >> No, no, excuse me. We don't move to consent when we haven't Yeah, we're not discussing everything. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Council President. I'm I'm
finished. I yield the floor. >> Councilwoman Ruden, you have something else you want? >> I appreciate all of those those cuts. Um, for the forensic audit, I would just like to remind everybody that we still have $75,000
from last year's authorization in addition to this year's new authorization of 75,000. We're now almost at July, starting tomorrow. We have three um people who have three
companies that have responded to the forensic audit. The analysis hasn't been done. We're not going to be starting with the forensic audit very soon. If we start, maybe it'll be by September. I think um eliminating line 2011 knowing that we
already have 75,000 from last year in here is um is fair. And I'd like to just ask you uh Mr. Diniac, your thoughts on that. >> So I reserved 75,000 from the 2025 budget for the forensic audit because I knew, you know, it's it's going to
happen. Um, do I think we're going to spend $150,000 by the end of December? I doubt it because even if we made a decision on a forensic auditor, they're going to have to do field work before they even begin the audit. Um, I just don't think we're
going to spend $150,000. So, >> so do we remove the $75,000? >> What do you feel comfortable? >> If it's your prerogative, I think you'd be safe doing that. We have 75 reserved for a forensic audit on the balance sheet. Okay. So, while I still have the floor,
I'd like to propose an overall cut to this page, which includes the 18,000 on line 70, the 70,000 on line 81, the 10,000 on line 110, and the 75,000
from the forensic audit line 2000 uh 201. That would be a total cut of 173. Councilwoman, on line 081, it's a reduction of how much? >> It's 705 70,000. Not I just want to make
sure I >> So this this would be a total reduction of 173,000 and Mr. Diniac can move the amounts around. >> Okay. So I need clarity >> and before and before I make the motion,
we should let CBA talk. I mean before the motion is voted on, >> we will give them an opportunity. Councilwoman Castelino has some comments. >> Okay. And I I Okay. So, I agree with you forensic order because I had a zero there. So, we're going to leave 030 at $150.
We're reducing 070 is going to go down to $12,000. >> Correct. >> 081 payrolls down to $75,000. >> Correct. >> Are you reducing for your supplies. Are you good there?
You have >> reduced it by 10,000. >> You have 916 in there or that's where you That's what you >> That's the audit. That's the regular audit. So that's the resolution that we passed was for $91,600. That's the audit fee. And then there's
additional money in there for um uh preparation of the AFS. >> So you need that to stay at one. >> I need that to stay the same. Yeah. >> So Okay. So line 110 is going to stay at 102. >> Mhm. >> Line 112 is going down. >> No, excuse me. Uh line 90 090 is staying
at 102. >> Well, I said line 110. >> I know that's not the right line. >> That 110 is is 20,000 to 10,000. >> You're better. >> Oh, my eyes. Oh my god, my eyes are going crazy with all my my markouts here.
>> Okay. And then 112 will be There's nothing on 112. >> No, just the forensic audit. After that, >> we took out that 20 then 10. It >> on line 112 went to 10. >> No, >> no, honey.
>> No, 110 goes to to 10,000. >> So, just to give you um an idea of what we're using 110 for >> clean sheet when you know you're going to come in making reductions. It it's just like you know how you put it up there last year. That would be if you could change it, but you got to
Okay, >> so 110. The reason we're cutting it is we we spent $5,800. We bought new validators and printers because we have admins now. Um, so we had to get new validators, which are the scanners for the tax
bills. Um, and then if we're entering in cash receipts, it prints out a receipt. Um, we may need to buy credit card machines out of this line. So, I wanted to keep a little bit of money in there to purchase the credit card machines. >> That's good. >> With Edmonds
>> and and you know, we keep talking about this budget. We benefit that we are doing this later in the year because in the beginning of the year, you didn't have that information and obviously this is why you budgeted what you budget. Now, we're here, you know, it's going to be July 1st tomorrow.
other than getting a a lay fine and causing people >> we already introduced. No, >> no, no. I know we introduced, but I'm saying by finishing it up, >> we're able to reduce more because you have this information. You didn't have this information when you created it. >> Correct.
>> So again, this is all due to his additional information. What is the 372950 number going to be now on the bottom? Total department number. Um, >> come on.
Battery dying. >> So, it goes down to $199,950. >> That would be the new number. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Awesome. Thank you, Council President. Councilwoman, >> thank you, Council President. President ask again, you just mentioned automated
uh credit card scanners and machines. Is this going to be the same system where we'll be able to do things everything online throughout all payments or no? >> So, we're starting with at least for admins, we're just starting with the property
tax and sewer. Um but their module allows for other payments to be attached to it whether it's an animal control or but we also have a municipity system. So you know I have to talk to Mauricio our IT
director about like I don't want to double things up. Um so I you know I don't have a good answer for you on that one but the system has the capability of doing everything online.
um through the web >> to town hall to pay things unless that's your choice or preference. You've also have the option of making most >> Yeah, I mean we have a lot of it through community pass like our a lot of our
recreation programs you can just pay for them online. Um we're trying to get as much as possible. you you you know more about municipity than me. >> Go ahead building from it. >> Yeah, we're we're >> that's the next phase of municipity. >> Yeah. So that's what we're building
toward is that next phase so that people can do either pay online, put their applications online, whether uh forego sometimes open requests because they got to get certain information that's going to be allowed put out to public. So there's going to be other things that are coming with this. So, we're we're building this
whole big new IT system together. That's been the goal. >> And then I've I've talked to companies and this would be probably for next year about kiosks. So, you know, if you do want to come in, but you want to come in on a Saturday and pay your taxes, you
can pay at a kiosk. It'll take a check. It takes cash. It takes a credit card. Um, and it pulls your bill up and you can expand that to any other um fee that we offer. So, you know, again, some people don't feel comfortable paying
online, but maybe can't come in before 4:30, you can use the kiosk and, you know, we can put that in PD where obviously, you know, we're 24/7. And >> and part of what we're and part of what we're doing right now, like you can go into planning and development department like from munic um for the merkantile
license, you can actually go in there. >> That's municip. Yeah. That's a municipality program, but you can go in there and and we're it's it's a a kiosk style setup, which we intend to do with the municip program even in the other departments once they get all set up
once we so they so even if they come in and they don't people aren't comfortable with doing online, they can come in here and they could apply in each building and each I mean each department and then our staff they need help taking the system. So, >> okay. If our council members are
finished, I'll see you back. >> Anybody else? Okay. >> Thank you, Council President. Um, I I forgot to mention I don't know when you want me to do this. Um, it's an overarching general comment. I I probably should have done it during
public comment, but it was from um the citizen budget advisory board just a um suggestion to the council that you ask Mr. Denniac to provide you with a list of uh retired employees so that you can
or or just identify in the present budget the um >> employees that have uh retired. Uh I know there have been several retirements. I I went back through and found several in the budget that might be a place for some costsaving. Um, and
I'm sorry I forgot to mention that earlier. Um, and then, uh, just as a point of, I don't know, recommendation or suggestion, the Citizen Budget Advisory Board works together to provide you with information to benefit your decision-making process. and it might
make sense to bring us up to the microphone before you've made your decision and before you've um voted on on something. Um, I will just point out on this page since we've already passed the other page um that the Citizen Budget Advisory Board uh would caution
you from removing the forensic audit budget amount of $75,000 if you think about the timing next year that it would take for you to fund um and then what you would be asking of the um vendor.
you have $75,000 already um allocated from last year, but the plan was to allocate again in this budget. And if if you don't have it allocated and you wait until next year, even if the work gets finished next year, the vendor may not be willing if you're only going to
partially pay. So, you you may want to have that allocated rather than remove it from the from the budget. And that way, when the work is done, you won't have to worry about it next year. things will be equally as um equally as tight next year and you wouldn't want to risk
not doing the uh not doing the audit for failure to have the money allocated. Um everything else that we had recommended has been covered. We identified 070, we identified uh 110
and we had some questions about 112 but we don't have them anymore. Thank you. I guess the question is will we have the budget next year by February 1st because that will drive >> that would drive right whether we hit the 75 is enough
>> right I move for consent on the speech >> second >> Wait a second >> hold on I I believe there's a motion on >> Wait a second >> there was a motion >> I believe councilwoman Ruden made a motion >> right I made I made a motion to reduce
the entire ire page by all of the enumerated amounts that Mr. Diniac said, which is a total of 173,000. >> That's the same thing. >> Not that >> that was not a consent. A consent on the page is to is to approve it as is. I'm
making >> amended. >> As amended. >> No, it isn't because each one was not called out. So, I'm making >> or can we just approve it as amended? >> You could do it by once a second. We can we can do it by consent as amended. Okay, let's do that. It'll save time. >> Well, well, I I I Councilwoman, if you
don't mind, I rather state Mr. Dutiniac gave us the total at 199950. Not to disagree with your math, but I rather go with the page total um after he did the math. So, 1999. >> Yeah, I trust his math.
>> Yes, I think it >> regardless of the total amount of reduce each line item as enumerated. >> Yeah, 173. Yeah, >> second. >> Well, there was there was a motion that was not seconded, >> right? We need a second,
>> which is exactly the same motion. Thank you. >> It's ask Mr. Dinak if it's the exact same motion in the end. >> Let's just move forward. >> It's it's the same. It's just clearer. >> Okay. >> It's more a little more clear. Let's just move forward and not waste. Yeah.
Yeah. And then there was a motion to consent on the page. Right. >> As amended. >> As amended. >> As amended. >> That's her. Yes, that was >> Councilwoman Williams. I seconded. >> Yes. >> You seconded. Council Williams.
>> No, she made the motion. And that's what I councilwoman Williams as amended. >> This way we don't have to go through every line item. >> All right. Councilwoman, sorry. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviac. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes.
>> Councilwoman Williams. >> Williams. Go ahead. Yes. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> And another section. >> So, our next department tonight is uh the Department of Administration led
by our business administrator, Mr. Peter Smaldo. Um, we are going to begin on page, let me get my calculator out of the way. We're going to go to page 44 for the
salary and wages for the business administrator's office. And um, well, I'll turn it over to Mr. Smalda so you can speak about the department. >> Yeah, go ahead. Of course. This is totally in the superintendent. I can
take this offer, but the question was whether or not a specific position is tenure, >> but it's >> Yeah, sure. You can ask me. >> So, the tax is that a tenure position? >> It is a tenure track position. Yes.
It means that um all the the statuto officers, the clerk, the tax collector, the CM um the chief financial officer, the tax assessor, and that's it. Right. >> Um we have terms that we uh serve under.
So for instance, my term, even though I started in October of 2024, my term goes back to 1 2024 and I serve for four years. And then if the governing body,
God willing, reappoints me in 2028 and I get that resolution that says you've been reappointed for a term of uh Madame Clerk, is it have to say four years or it just says you've been reappointed? I would send my resolution
down to the Division of Local Government Services. And this is an important step. This has to happen. Division of Local Government Services would then make a determination that I've achieved tenure and that I'm protected under the rights of a a tenured officer. And that goes
for an assessor, a collector, and the clerk, >> what impact being tenured has on our budget or moving forward if there is an impact. I'm asking the question, so I'm not certain. So the a budgetary impact
for a tenured employee, I mean obviously you're you're not going to just be able to push that employee out easily. Um but the budgetary impact is so you don't try to ice them out by saying all right you're here but I'm never giving you an
increase so enjoy your salary for the next 10 years. There's statute that says that they have to receive the average of whatever the total increase is of all your collective bargaining units and management. So if you're giving
everybody 5% and then you tell your assessor or let's say your clerk who this is our only tenure employee, hey zero, we have to give her 5%. Because that's the average increase. So that's the budgetary impact is that your tenur
people have to receive the average increase of the overall >> is that immediate or is it after a period of time >> appointed so you can't just default into tenure you do have to be reappointed by resolution is the assessor three years
>> four years four years so >> so if you don't want like if you don't want to renew me for instance in 2027 you, I'm just using myself as an example. You would tell me in 2027, hey, we're not going to you and at 12:31
uh 2027, my job would end and there wouldn't be a resolution in 2028 to reappoint me. So, keep that in mind if there's a tenure if there's an officer that you wouldn't want. >> Councilman Kovak. Yeah, I uh I sent an
email over earlier today uh because I couldn't reconcile some numbers on these two pages, 44 and 45. Maybe we could just uh take a quick look at them, too. The first one is line uh 082, township of employee education on page
44. It says the recommended budget is $26,000. But when you go to 45 for that line item, it's a couple of thousand dollars more on
>> 45 082 on page 45. You've got >> Yeah. You know, I wish I actually didn't include that page. Um that's just a temporary budget that's autogenerated by the system. I don't know. When I was putting this together, I thought that I was being
more transparent by putting in this sort of like real world document, but it I think it was just more confusing than anything. Um, it's just the temp budget. It's it's generated by the system. We put a percentage in. So, it really is is
meaningless and it gets replaced by the adopted budget anyway. So, >> okay. So, page 44 is the number that we should be working on. And and we're going to I think we're going to start with page 42. And I'm sorry, Mr. SMaldo, I didn't let you speak. >> We don't have 42.
>> Huh? We don't have a page 42. >> 41 to 44. >> 42. >> No, we have 42. >> You got 42. I don't have 42. >> I have >> I was also in the email that I don't you mentioned that. Yes.
>> Everybody has it except me. >> Seriously? Yeah. You have a question >> on 44. I have a question. Okay. >> Can we go to Councilwoman Castle? >> Yeah. >> Well, I'm on 44. Are you on 42?
>> 42. Yeah. We'll start with the salaries and wages. >> Pete, do you want to >> So, good evening. I want to thank everybody for having me here today. As the business administrator, I get the pleasure of of overseeing the entire municipality of the workforce and I'm
I'm happy to be part of this team because this team doesn't succeed without every single person that's works for us. That includes all our department heads, directors, and such all the way down to everyone who works in every
single office. So, without without their um magnificent work, we wouldn't be uh receiving as much accolades as we do. Um we also um are a a very um reactive um um workforce and we take pride in the
fact that we we try to address every issue. At least address it. May not correct it right away, but at least make sure that we um we do address situations all the time and that's every single department. That's an edict from the mayor. That's something I believe in and that's what we do. So, I'm very happy to
be sitting in this chair tonight and very happy to be um am sitting in the office down the other end of the hallway that's u um my job is easier just because of all the people I represent and work with. uh in particular in my my my office um I have two people that you see you
assigned here that you the names are withheld but they they also help strengthen our our office and we do work every single day along with um we haven't got to it yet but they will be mentioned soon as along with our purchasing uh department and we we have a collective team down the end of the
hallway that works very well together so um and I'm very happy to be working in the same office with them so with that we can move forward Thank you. >> So much on 42.
>> Okay. So on page 42, just make a a question. The uh keyboarding clerk that is that a non-union position? >> No, it's an ask me role. Can that be corrected? >> Yeah, we fixed it in a later version of this, but I have to update the b the um
uh website. >> Okay. Nothing to do there. >> Consent. >> President. >> Yes. >> On the end of the section. >> Oh, she has something to say here.
>> Thank you, Council President. So, um, regarding business administrator, uh, or the business administration office, um, sorry, let me just get to my notes. Okay, so uh, the business administration
budget reflects a significant increase in salary appropriations. Um, the CBA wanted to know what additional responsibilities or organizational changes justified that increase. For example, what operational efficiencies have been implemented since last year's budget, how much measurable
savings resulted, what major initiatives have been completed, which performance metrics are monitored, and how are departmental goals evaluated? Um, basically, can the administration identify the measurable taxpayer benefit that corresponds with this increased
investment? Thank you. I'm going to respond. >> Okay. >> And I'm gonna I'm gonna thank Mr. Mr. Smearaldo for all the hours he put in by accepting this role and also by not uh not
accepting an assistant uh BA. You know, you you were the assistant BA. You stepped up to be the business administrator. So, we're down uh a body in this department, a position in this department. So, I appreciate all the hours that you and your department has
have been picking up without the with the loss of a key position in this department. Uh administration, you know, mayor's not here to talk about uh performance, but that's not what we're here for. We're here for a
budgetary concern. So, thank you for assuming this role without replacing yourself uh in the prior role. >> And I just want to say thank you for answering my calls 247, most of which are on weekends.
>> And I also want to thank the administrative clerk HR coordinator because I know that position has been picking up additional being that we again we are in true need of a HR department which we do not have. So the
CBA board board can identify that. Um but that position has been picking up the responsibilities of uh HR. So hopefully someday we'll be able to expand that department. Uh but
until then I appreciate uh uh that position as well picking up those responsibilities. Thank you, Council President. >> Council President. >> Yeah. I would just like to point out that the assistant BA position in a Faulner government is not is not legal.
So that even though there was an assistant that's not permitted according to Faulner law for a municipality that has less than 300,000 people. Um also I would like an answer to the question that CBA asked which is what justifies
this increase? What major initiatives have been taken under your direction and what measurable taxpayer benefits are there that can be quantified? >> Well, fact is I'm also the acting
director of p of public works. There's no there's no salary attached to that. >> Um fact is that we we look at our departments. We we meet with them >> every week or every two weeks. We discuss what their productivity is. We
look at different uh avenues. Um so, um I think the fact that we see that we we run within the budget. We're we're holding our own on what we're supposed to do. Um so, you know, I don't know what else uh you want us to answer without, you know, getting into any kind of detailed. You know, this was not a
question that was going to be asked that you if you want me to quantify, put something together. I don't have those those measures right now. But, um we are working toward, you know, providing the service that we can. So >> well I I think the question was that it's an 18% increase and the question
was what justifies such a large increase. >> Hold I think going to like a performance review here? I don't think we've had any of our department heads justify their their increase. So I just want to I Scott, do you agree with that? clear that this is
getting this is getting close to the line of getting into a um an area of conversation that would require prior notice to the affected employees. >> Yeah, I think maybe if it was just more of like the department itself rather >> I think you could talk about general totality of the budget without getting
into specific salaries. Yes. >> But but >> yes, council >> councilwoman you mentioned, you know, again you you threw out that um assistant BA wasn't allowed. Well, whether it was allowed or not, it did exist and I'll let the attorney uh
advise us on that. Um, but the position did exist. So, there was the person there was an the workload that the current BA is assuming whether that you felt that was needed or not that
position. So, um, again, this is disappointing. I appreciate the CBA asking these questions, but I think they're directly I don't appreciate the tone of them of asking about these this and I think we need to move on because again this just
gets frustrating. >> I would agree. Let's move. >> I would just like to say that this is it's not my opinion about whether or not the position is needed. It's what our form of government permits. It's not my opinion. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So, let's move on. That's the past. Let's move forward with the future. Uh, Council Move. >> Uh, I'm back on page 44 if if if we're finished with the previous page. >> 44 questions. Okay. >> Did we we already consented?
>> Yeah, we consented to. >> Yeah. So I'd like to just bring out so we can for brevity sake. Um there have been four line items that that um I'm willing to concede on that um so that we
don't even to go through all the the questions that need to be asked. So in line item 081 there is a final remaining budget of $1,19401. We can cut that. Okay. >> Mhm. 083 employee assistance program. We
can for $1,000. We can cut that for 200 PR commission expenses $750. We can cut that for 200 uh for line item 2011 marketing campaign $3500. We can cut that. I'm comfortable with that. I'll
make that recommendation um and and leave it at that. The rest of the budget I am not going to concede on moving anything. And that includes the training. And the main reason for the training is that um we as we've discussed in the previous meetings that
we're we're consolidating training from all the other departments from a managerial perspective and we have a lot of new supervisors and things of that nature. So and everything's coming through my office for my approvals and things of that nature. So I'm not willing to move on that. It's it's the council's prerogative to cut. Um and if
that's what you choose to do, that's fine, but I'm not going to make any recommendations to that line item. >> Okay. And just noted. Yes, Councilman Kovi. >> Mr. Smaldo, when you say training, are you referring to line uh 082, Township employee education? >> Yeah, I am. I'm sorry. I I'm sorry.
Yeah, employee education. >> Okay. Just just want to just clear for everybody. So, just a quick question. It uh >> uh on the on the page it said in the first quarter spent 37% uh still had uh 16,285
remaining for the rest of the year. Mhm. >> Just to perhaps clarify, you're saying you expect to spend that. >> Correct. Yeah. Coming from the my background, I training is essential to me. I believe training and training our staff is important. Um we have some of our supervisors that we're going to be
sending out for training in the in the future. We are using our central Jersey GIF uh to help with training of our staff itself. So we we do provide a lot of free training, but there's some some specialized training that needs to go out there. we have certain people going to certified public management programs,
things of that nature. Um, so they're they're they're attending these highlevel managerial type programs because, you know, we we have mentioned this plenty of times in the past and even now, you know, we look at our succession planning and and we're trying to train our future leaders here so they
get the proper training. Unfortunately, some of these these courses are are expensive. So, uh, we currently have, I believe, three or four people in the CPM program, and that and that cost us money. We have a new fire chief. We're going to be looking to send him for things of that nature. We have, so we we
have a new police chief, you know. So, we have people who need those kind of trainings and and so that's why I'm comfortable with um keep making that recommendation for that number. >> Understood given the amount of retirements we've had recently. >> Correct. >> Just also wanted to ask about line 20,
I'm sorry, uh, 220. the physician uh the township physician O and E uh as of the third as of the first quarter we you still had uh 92% of the budget left and I know we're hiring a
ton of people this year. So I just want to see are are you thinking >> I'm sorry that that that's for the contract that's for the uh the physician to to be the that's his contract and he gets paid I think twice a year John. Yeah, 15,500 and he's we're supposed to get that
twice a year >> and that's per contract. >> So, we should be paying him this month um half of it and then he gets half in December. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, you I thought it was based on a per uh per employee that he
>> this is to be the township position as the appointed position. This isn't all this doesn't cover every single service that he provides. Okay. >> But this is this is per contract. We advertise as professional service and that's what he is. He gets to be the u the physician for the municipality.
>> So are you saying that we have to pay him under contract no matter what happens? Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's like a retainer. >> That's all I need. Thank you. >> Councilwoman Ruden to do question. >> Um you just mentioned that the contract
is 15,500 correct but the allotment is for 15,640. Can we make a savings of $140? >> What? >> Okay, I just want to go back up to line
70 for communications. We pay um $3,200 a month and that is a total of $38,400 and there's a little bit of a savings there of $1,695 to equal the exact salary which is
contractual. Good. Okay, >> I'm just going to confer with the CFO that if that's the the salary, then if that if that is the case and it's going to cover the salary of that person, then then I'm comfortable on the I'm sorry.
>> So that so yeah, we can make that savings. >> Okay. And I just wanted to ask about line 83. Was that reduced by $1,000? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Recommended that. >> Yeah, there were four cuts. >> Okay. And then in in terms of the employee education, um you've spent so
far about $10,000 >> and there's 26. Can you itemize approximately what you think the other 16,000? >> As I as I just stated to the councilman, you know, I have anticipated costs coming up. I don't have that figure in front of me right now, but I anticipate
exhausting that that money >> and maybe some training for the council as well. Very good. Council president. >> Yeah. >> So what's so what right now is the total is it 65
8401 that will be reduced. >> I'll make a motion to reduce 60. >> The last one was 100. >> Just check the number Mr. Diniac and I'll second that motion. >> Yes. 6584.01. >> Okay. Can I make a motion to reduce that
and second thing? >> 6,5841. >> Before Before we do this, I just want to go over again what is >> line 81. We have >> and and we also have CBA in the audience before we vote. >> Lion
>> line 81. I I um >> whole thing >> whole thing. So we eliminate >> He sped some of it already. So just limiting the >> Yeah, the amount. Yeah, the 1,1941. I recommend that we >> Okay. I just I just I just want to make sure. And then the um the line for
um the PR and 2011 you cut that. >> Eliminated that too. Okay. >> Yeah, he eliminated four right off the bat. Four. So to to make so you understand my recommendations 081 $1,19401 >> Mhm. for 083 $1,000
>> for 200 reduce it $750 and for 2011 3500 those are my recommendations >> and then we took another 1,695 right on top of that >> and 1,00 what >> 695 I think Councilwoman Ruden wanted to
>> yes >> in addition to that and that's >> for the communications officer >> yes >> so 1 1600 $195 needed. >> Mhm. >> In addition to the 6584. Yes. >> Yes. In addition to that.
>> So, what's this total page going to be, if you will? >> $8,2791. >> Okay. >> So, do we move for the acceptance of this page as amended? >> Wait until the seat belts, I guess. >> Yeah. I >> Okay. Did you want to come up?
>> I don't understand why they're not making the statements in the beginning of the >> Yeah, sure. >> Like we >> Thank you. So, uh, the SBA notice that we agreed with you on line item 070. We recommended that you reduce by 2,000. We
wanted to raise 091 grant consultants. Last year, you had budgeted for $65,000. You spent 479. You budgeted this year for 60,000. We recommend you reduce that by 10. Um, >> it's 479. >> You
uh >> 479. >> You have not. I'm sorry. I was saying 091. >> Yes. Yes. Miss 47,900. It's budgeted for. >> It's budget. What did I say? >> 60. >> Okay. The initial >> Yeah. The initial internal request was
60,000 and then when we went over it, we we dropped it to 479. and they've spent quite a bit. >> Sorry. So if it's 479, we had recommended that you reduce the 60 to 50. So that's fine. Okay. And then um line item 220. Just for a point of
information, Mr. Simmeraldo, um you said that this is contractual, but last year it was budgeted at 15640 and what you paid as of year end last year was 7,920. Is that inaccurate or is
>> Yeah, we by the end of the year we had only made the one payment. So, um we made his second payment in 2026. >> And is the payment 15,000? So, two payments of 7,000 or is the payment two
payments of 15,000? >> Last year was 15,840. Um Oh, no. No, it was I have to go back. I know it was 15,640 for his position service and then we had some other small
charge. This is probably Paul telling me last year was 15,500 as well. >> Okay. >> For just Dr. Kelly. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Watching. Councilwoman Ruden, >> I'd like I'd just like to ask it at the
last um council meeting. Um it was pointed out that there were two two um contracts that did not have any details in it. Does doctor does the does the township physician provide any
details in terms of how many how many employees he he or she has seen and can we request that going forward? >> I thought so >> to justify that expense because we also have extra extra expenses coming out of care station.
Every time I see that I'm told that the the town physician does not cover that. So I'd like to really see it in a quantifiable way what exactly the town physician is doing. >> We can have a discussion. >> Did didn't we used to see the bills that
how many people went through >> there? This is to be the physician for the municipality. There's certain things that he will it's not included in his contract. But when we talk about like pre-employment uh for say the police and fire, that's not included because we have to we have to pay for the what's
called the Bruce protocols and and the background check stuff. This is just to be the the the physician to write our prescriptions to uh we do we do some pre-employment screening with our non-uniform people there. So we do a different bunch of service that is provided. I don't have the contract in
front of me, but we you know that's what we do every year. We send >> for him then to be on call >> and to be on call and to and to provide other services if if need be if we have to. >> Yeah. So the like like you said the pre-employment is for the non-public safety. Like when I started and I went
there and I was like, "Oh, are you going to take my blood pressure?" And it was like, "No, you're just getting drug tested." Like that's your pre-employment screening. So when when we hire, you know, like a keyboarding clerk, they're going to go to Dr. Kelly for a quick screening and a a a drug
screening. So >> that's >> I would still like to make a request that that be quantifiable >> because we provide such great medical uh health benefits. >> I don't understand what this is. >> This is before you >> I understand you're saying he's that
he's writing prescriptions. >> Well, when I say he's writing prescriptions, a prescription is like say for oxygen. Oxygen is a prescription. We cannot provide we cannot get oxygen um to our fire department and our police officers without a prescription. Narcan is a prescription. Those are the kind of
script those those are the kind of services that he does. He's he's he's basically the medical consultant, I guess. Uh the medical uh director, I'm sorry, it's called the medical director. He's the medical director for the municipality. That's that is his role and function as far as contract is. >> I'd like to move the vote, please.
>> Yeah, we have a initial. We are required to have a physician because of our EMS program is what I'm being told. >> Great. So, let's move on. >> Already moved and second and seconded. So, let's take the vote. >> We need a vote. This was Yeah. Inspect
reduced by $8,2791. >> Right. Right now, we got a vote. >> Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilman Koviaak. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Council President. The motion carries. We don't have the consent on the page then the
consent. >> All right, let's keep it going. >> Maybe we'll get something done tonight. >> 8:47. >> So now we're going to move to 187. >> Excuse me. >> Oh yes, go ahead. >> Question. So we did 40. Did we do 47
purchasing another date? because I still have that that Yeah, 47 wasn't page. >> Okay, sorry. I got >> it. We had done it. >> No, notice I have a bunch of pages separated out that weren't consented. I
just double check and it was right behind me. >> Uh, let's do central purchasing then. My apologies. >> 47 wasn't. I didn't think so. I didn't have a note. >> Um, so central purchasing is made up of two employees. We have our purchasing agent. Um, and the purchasing agent has
uh an assistant who is currently a keyboarding clerk, newer employee. Um, it's just base salary. We don't have any OT in the department. We utilize comp time for the the small amount of time that the purchasing agents assistant
would have to. >> Okay. >> So, move to consent. Okay. Is that all in favor? Any competitive? >> So now I have 49 as okay. Do you show
49? Okay. >> That's what I mean. I thought we went through central purchasing. >> Well, it's funny because now like I said 49 I wrote okay. So I I which means we consent. Do we consent? Maybe that's I
don't think we do Courtney. >> Although it may have been done at a meeting all >> but you don't have it noted. >> Well, I wouldn't. >> Yeah, I'll have >> Well, let's go through it. >> Yeah, it's it's a little bit. >> It's only a few items. >> Is this What page are we talking about?
>> So, now we're going to go to page 49. This is central purchasing. Um the main uh ask of the purchasing agent is that the dues line um be kept and we've already spent the money on our um uh
this is one of our what is it? >> I move to consent on 49. >> I'll second >> for the Morris County co-op. So our dues for the co-op. >> What what is what is the um advertising used for? advertising these for the bids
>> need that. So let's just >> I did have a question though. Um when we have office supplies and and subscription so maybe perhaps not the subscription but why do each department have office supplies instead of us doing an a centralized office supply for the
entire administration. >> So we do that um and that's actually the purchasing agent's job is to maintain the supply closet. And if you go downstairs in our basement in our our mail room area, we do have some of those supplies, Karen, they look like they're
from like 30 years ago, but that's our central supply. So, a lot of that is ordered directly by the purchasing agent. And when you need to get something out of there, you fill out a form with what you're requesting and you have to get it signed by um you know, by
your your department head. Sometimes the departments will buy specialty items themselves or they're buying toner ink themselves, but a lot of like the basic supplies, paper clips, markers, pens, um folders, clipboards, that's all
purchased by Paula through her central purchasing >> and and central printing and supply budgets. Would it be more economical for us to centralize all of that and have I'm I'm going to assume that the reason
why each department you just indicated special specialized printing toner >> some we don't have all the machines that are the same. >> They're not all the same. We sort of have a bit of a hodgepodge in terms of the actual big copy machine. We used to
have more desktop printers. the IT department's gotten rid of a lot of that. Um, >> I just have the pursing agent watching. So, um, >> what's her take on this? >> She's sending me many many texts.
>> I really do. Yeah, I really do. >> So, yeah, sometimes like we we're buying toner cartridges for for our printer here in finance, but they're going to be different for Karen's printer. So we're >> we we have like a lot of old machines
and they're they're sort of different toner cartridges but we eliminated a lot of the desktop printing so we don't have to deal with that. There's very few desktop printers. We >> also eliminated fax machines there. No more we don't we don't buy fax machines. >> No, we have electronic fax through ring.
>> Electronic is through our our ring central system. We do we can do fax and texting if we have to through that. Um so we we we're eliminating a lot of that. But to your point, yes, that would be much more economical if we just bought one toner cartridge 10 times rather than 10 different toner
cartridges. >> We could maybe next year look towards >> central purchasing for the entire administration and not having each of the departments responsible for their own purchasing if we were to buy even in bulk. Like you said, if if you know
you're going to use 10, >> you know. >> Yeah. We sort of like like finance, tax and purchasing and administration. We kind of function that way. I think Karen too really um you know we all on this floor sort of figure out what we need but we can expand that. >> Yeah. There are probably economies of
scale of doing it that way. >> You get coupons. >> Yeah. When you know you're buying in bulk. I mean that's why we go to like the Costos of the world and all that. Sure. >> Okay. >> Not us. I mean as individuals >> strategical. >> I make a motion consent on 40. I'll second. >> Wait a second. Can
>> Sorry. Sh. Go ahead. >> Can we just ask everybody if there are any more questions? And also CBA has a right before we consent on everything. I'd like to understand what what expenses were in line item 110.
>> It's a $600 line item. >> I'm asking I I unfortunately I don't have the detail for this because I was not prepared to to talk about central purchasing >> um all day long. We didn't have them then. >> It's $449.
>> This was not on the agenda. >> Can we move on? >> Well, >> this was on the agenda. So, I'm asking what >> No, no, no. And and I I appreciate that. >> That's exactly what you're asking for that we all be in on the behind the scenes of what correct what's in there. So, then I ask and I'm still get
criticized. >> So, I I apologize. I can I can run right now and and and run this off real quick. Okay. >> Not necessarily. I'm okay with it. This little bit amount of money. >> It's a good, you know, question, but I don't think we want to.
>> Yeah, we could get the answer tomorrow. >> We don't want to pound this one to death. >> Well, then don't then let's see Bab ask its questions before we close this >> questions. >> I mean, it's there's not too much money here we're talking about. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, a motion to consent on page 49. And
I'll second. >> Yeah. And I'll second. >> That's all in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? Okay. The motion's carried >> 51 >> till anything gets complicated. I don't
think we did 51 either. Do we do central printing? >> Nope. >> I don't have anything. >> Yeah, I have either. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, this >> would be the place where we would look to do all of our centralized purchasing and funding. This
is where a lot of it already occurs. Yeah. In the office supplies. Um >> is it possible um to pull out not now obviously but to pull out all the other printing charges to the departments and just just put them all here >> and consolidate them.
>> Yes. Yes. I'll talk to the QPA about that. >> Okay. >> She'll tell me her opinion in two seconds. >> Okay. >> I like that. All you had to look at your watch. I'm very impressive. Lots of stuff going for printing. I'm fine. She's fine with that. Okay.
>> Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you. >> So, so just question Councilwoman. So that's for next year he's you're moving to that or for this year that you're >> that's his pleasure. It's recommendation that it needs to be done but I'm not going to this is >> talk about it. We we'll talk about it
now. I don't think it's that heavy. Well, I'll let the the QPA talk about >> the question is like so then do we consent on this page or not? >> Yeah, I I think you still have to consent. Yeah, it's $5,700. >> Any other funds in the other line would just be putting them into one location.
>> Okay. So, it's consent on >> you do you do have well he does have to and again my colleague may jump in. Uh 13131 it's you haven't spent any money yet but that was as of the first quarter have >> and it's only 500 >> is it's 500 bucks. So, is it okay to
>> show the >> are you spending that eventually or >> or you might have already >> have it for for repairs? Um, >> oh, that's right. We have >> the pity Bose machine. >> We talked about that last >> inevitably breaks down when we really
need it and we have that in for repairs. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I think we can move on. Can we consent? >> Okay. >> Yes. Anybody I see Abby, you have anything on this page? >> Okay. Can we get consent? >> Second consent. All in favor? I >> Who moved it? I'm sorry.
>> I got one more. Uh, council present. >> She moved it and then you seconded it. >> Okay. Thank you. Sorry about that. All in favor? >> I. >> Any opposed? >> The consent is implemented. >> That moving away.
>> 52 telephone. >> That's utility. Is that part of our utilities tonight? >> Is that number eight? I >> utilities. >> I thought we did central telephone. I'm I'm sorry. I'm >> I haven't >> I'm not prepared for central telephone.
>> Any markings on that? >> I have not. >> Did we do this page? >> I I that's my my note to myself. Did we do this page? So, I guess not. >> Do you have anything council rude? >> No. On this one to come back. Okay. So,
>> we got to come back to 53. Then did we do unemployment comp? >> Yes, we did unemployment, workers comp, general liability. We did all that. >> That was 54. >> I don't have anything all the way.
>> I didn't have I didn't have anything. >> What? >> What happened? >> I'm 54. >> We have insurance. I didn't have anything on that or fine. >> I know we we did chills. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Skipping
around like some things. I have a whole bunch of them. We didn't No, we didn't. >> Okay. So, let's quickly look at it and >> we didn't advertise for it. I just I don't want >> Yeah, perhaps best to set it aside and the clerk or someone can can go through minutes, see if this section was attend was addressed and since it sounds like
there'll be more meetings at the end then if you need that. Okay. >> Yeah, because I know we did it. You know, we talk it up with this manager. >> Yeah. >> It may have been a meeting I wasn't at because I didn't have any markings on my budget. So, >> all right. So, we have to come back to
54. >> Yeah. 54 50 I guess. >> 52 53 54 >> 5 doing what we haven't advertised. >> No, no. I think we're just saying what's in the future. figure out. We're going to still need to do >> 56.
>> I mean, I'm sure we did all this, >> right? >> Yeah. I did. We do this page. Yeah. On 60 61 >> 62 all the way to 62. >> Yeah. >> Central. Did we do central mailing 62?
>> I don't have anything down. >> Yeah. 63. I don't have anything. >> Um, Miss Kazins, we said she thinks that it was done. I asked her to check her notes about >> which one 62. >> Uh, no. She said the GIF stuff. >> I remember talking about it.
>> We did talk about it. Yeah, we did talk about it. Did we maybe not consent? >> Check her notes. I'm pretty sure we did. We addressed a lot of these. >> Maybe it was that meeting that Miss Kensky was here. >> Yeah, I think that because I don't have any. >> Well, we'll double check with her notes. >> She said it was a quick vote. That's
what she just said to me. >> Okay. So, if we have it, we'll >> have less to do. She'll check her notes tomorrow. >> All right. So then >> after tonight, I think we put together a listing of what's left and that will
become the basis for the next uh >> after the litigation, >> but we're doing litigation tonight. >> We're doing uh utilities and litigation for the rest of the year. >> Check out the madam cler 62. >> Oh yeah. >> So I had that in my pocket 54 through
62. See if I have any other ones. I know. >> Yeah, we'll say no. >> All right. There may be hope of us getting this done before August. >> We really got to move. >> Got to move. >> All right.
>> Do we want to move into fuel or >> Yeah, let's just move there. Let's talk. Yeah. >> Y. >> All right. So, this is page 187. Um, for those at home, uh, if you're looking at the PDF, it's 192,
um, on the PDF. Council President, >> yes, Councilman Kovak, go ahead. >> Why is it that my copy of the budget doesn't correspond at all to every >> I don't know. >> Did you ask copy of the budget? >> No, he got it. He didn't ask. He got the
first digital copy. We we're looking at the printing copy. >> What What page do you have for fuel? >> I have PDF page 190 and handwritten page 187. >> 187. >> Yes, 187 is correct. It's PDF page 192.
I don't know why you may not have had the full table of contents. I I'm not sure. >> Okay. Well, >> we'll clear this up. Yeah, >> go ahead. Council me, >> I just wanted to ask some questions because uh on each one of these line items, at least the first two because we
have >> uh third first quarter numbers and then I wanted to see if they carried over into second quarter. >> Sure. >> On on both of these, especially the diesel which is we used up 56% of the budget in the first quarter.
>> Right. >> Okay. So, I'm going to I'm going to start with the the gasoline. So, we've spent >> through through today, which would include our
deliveries um up through May $158,000 on gasoline. And you know, I have I can share with with
everyone the sort of fuel usage by year. Um I'll I'll I'll share that with you. I had the the purchasing agent put that together. Um just so you guys can see fuel usage. Um 2425 26, but right now
we're at $158,000 spend on gasoline. >> So that's just a little more than half, >> correct? What we budgeted? Okay. >> Okay. Do you expect that that you'll need to increase that? >> Yeah, I I know that fuel prices have I
don't No, I I don't want to increase it. I'm I'm hoping to hold on to the 360 that we budgeted. >> Okay. >> Um and hopefully fuel prices continue to come down. Um, but you know, we we use a lot of gas in
the fall with leaves and you know, if we have snowstorms and um so, you know, we can look at usage, but I I'm comfortable with the 360,000. I just I'd be very wary of of of cutting
the way that fuel has gone up and down this year. Uh diesel seems to be a different story. >> So diesel >> on that >> diesel we're at $66,75 spent through today
>> and that's going to that's going to be 15 or $20,000 more than the budget the budgeted. Do you think you need more or will need more? >> Uh again I think we're going to hold off and hopefully if we need more in diesel we have excess in gasoline. So cuz it's
all essentially one one fuel item uh in in the budget. The fuel maintenance I think there really is that's sort of the only place for a potential cut, but at the same time I mean it's pretty common somebody breaks the pump
or hits the pump or >> you mean those old pumps. So >> DPW, >> we have pumps at DPW and we have pumps at firehouse 4 >> diesel at uh fire headquarters which we're actually upgrading that right now.
>> Yep. >> So what will happen to the pumps at the DPW site once that site is they're above ground tanks? >> They can be moved. >> So they can be removed. >> They're not part of the remediation of the whole property. That was we took
them out years ago actually >> for historical purposes. Every fire station used to have them years ago. We had to we ripped them all out. So currently it's headquarters and force >> and DPW and we're like so we're in the process now of replacing the ones headquarters ground. We're replacing
them with above ground with above ground tanks. >> Okay. Thank you. Also, um, just wanted to note that you your request for the budget is 360,400. >> Is there any reason why we keep doing these little odd numbers instead of just
making it around a number? >> No, there's no reason. Sometimes we increase the percentages and that's what you end up with. >> Okay. So, you do it by percentage. Okay. >> Sometimes. Yeah. >> Understood. Understood. Um, and then in addition, I wanted to just inquire. So, we have um gas that we provide to all of
our vehicles. And then my question is for those vehicles that are provided to uh senior leadership, do they do they ever all of their gas is paid for by the municipality? >> All vehicles are paid for the gifts, not by the municipality, but whatever
vehicle goes in is paid for by the municipal. Doesn't matter where the vehicle is. Councilman Kobak, >> I just want to ask again that when someone has the floor, one of the council people has the floor, that you not take it away from him or her uh
without some notice that that's what you're doing. Thank you. >> Go ahead. Do it. >> No, that's okay. I'm finished. >> You're finished. Okay. Councilwoman Castle. So just to the point about the fuel maintenance that councilwoman brought up um so being in the BDA
meetings um those pump the pump that we have is the above ground can be moved so miracle occurs and we're able to move that this year would that be in enough in the fuel maintenance or that would come
>> that would be in an overall capital ordinance bond ordinance to move to whatever the site is because nothing is going to be turnkey. I mean, even if you know, we buy a site, it's going to be a bond ordinance for that. So, that
would all be part of a capital plan. We wouldn't be charging fuel maintenance to move a pump or something like that. >> No, the pumps are they're they're older. And part of this maintenance is that we have to routinely maintain I I >> we test them. >> Yeah, we have to Yeah, we have to do annual tests on them to make sure that
they're not leaking. Um, I believe that the um the I think they get service every quarter. I think that's what the service contract is. I I don't don't fault me if I'm incorrect, but I'm pretty sure it's a quarterly because you see these guys are all kind of changing the filters. They
>> Yeah, we T- Slack an outstanding service company we use to >> Yes. >> Okay. So, >> it changed the filters out, the fuel filters, the I mean the pump filters, and like I said, inevitably there's going to be some repair needed because somebody bumps it or
>> rips it out and >> Okay. And you expect to be short on line 150 with the diesel, so you can make that up with line 142. >> Yeah. I mean, the the hope is again that fuel prices are going to go down. Um
>> Okay. All right. I'm good to consent if anybody else is. >> Okay. >> No, like to perhaps. >> Okay. So, at this point in the year in terms of gasoline fuel, you're at 158. >> Even if you doubled it, it would still
not hit 360. And um just looking at last year's and the fact that that gas prices are going down, it does look like there could be some savings that we could make right there. >> Yeah. I mean, the hope is that gas
prices are going down. We started the year at $180 a gallon and by the end of March, we were at $3 and you know, 15 cents per gallon, >> but we're closer to the midterms at this point and they're not going to go >> right. But, you know, I mean, like
again, world politics, I don't know. straighta hermoose gets closed again and and I don't know what it does to to the market because >> we we don't lock in we we can't do forward contracts on gas. So we're we're bound by market conditions in the same
way that you know regular drivers are. So when we get our fuel deliveries, um you know, we're basically paying a similar price as as the >> public interest. But even if even if we doubled it and then added more money in there, there still could be some savings
here, it's going up from 336 last year to 360. >> But we we've had we've had months where gas has been expensive. I again I I just am very wary of cutting this particular budget because understood. >> The market conditions are so volatile
right now. >> And as we saw last year and earlier, we we spoke about this last year in the in the September budget hearings and reminding everybody that, you know, we got hurricane season starting has started. You know, we we don't know, we can't anticipate storms. You know, part
of emergency management is anticipating that we're going to have problems. If we start cutting this fuel, we don't have the fuel. It's these are one of the commodities that we really should have readily available to us. >> Understood. >> But we are adding in $24,000
more than what we paid last year. >> Make a motion. >> Make a >> I make I make a recommendation to cut this budget by $15,000. >> That a motion. >> That's a motion. >> Second. You
>> Thank you. >> Okay. I I am still have the floor. Um in terms of fuel ma fuel maintenance um what what is the actual spend to date? >> Um
>> it's going to be short. >> So fuel fuel maintenance we've actually spent $2,644. We have money encumbered for for more testing um with Tesla. So, in total,
we're at like $14,000 with the encumbered and paid. >> But the encumbered is for what purpose? >> Um, we we encumbered money for uh testing uh with T- Slack Environmental.
>> So, you have that money? >> That's part of the encumbered. Yeah. >> So, is there room to cut this by 15,000? >> I think so. Yeah. I mean, again, hopefully we don't have like a big repair, but >> Okay. So, then I'd like to make a motion
to reduce uh line item 155 fuel maintenance by 15,000. >> So, I I was just doing a quick calculation um based on the gallons that we're on track to use versus our average cost per gallon. And we're right at that
sort of $350,000 mark um so for for gasoline. So pretty pretty pretty pretty close. Yeah. >> Because again we don't know where the flux fluctuation is going to be on the gas and we have a total budget for this
page and if necessary you can make some movement within the budget lines. So if there's no other objection to consent on this page we consent. >> Okay. Consent. >> Okay. Before we go >> but I had just made a motion and then >> and it wasn't second. wasn't sec wasn't
>> but nobody was okay. He just said that we could cut it 15 >> and he also said first that there's some fluctuation and he did some calculations and he may need the extra figures. >> So on the fuel the fuel maintenance I'm I'm okay with the fuel maintenance. I I
I I am um it's more of I don't want gasoline 142 or 150 cut. >> That that's where the 350 comes from on the the gasoline side because again we we sort of average about 155,000 gallons
of gas a year. So taking that average versus what our average price per gallon is, that's where we came out with that $350,000. >> Miss Bennett, go ahead. Thank you, Council President. So, just briefly, and we didn't know where to bring this up,
so I'm bringing it up with fuel um EV. We didn't see uh a budget line item for any EV costs or electricity fueling. I we know that there are some um electric vehicles in the fleet. Um where where does that reflect itself in the budget?
>> Sure. So, we we have two electric buses that we received um via grant. They're barricked out back. Uh, and we have two charging stations to go along with those EV buses. So, they're just part of the
electricity bill for the building. Um, that's really all we have in the fleet in terms of electric vehicles. We're looking at um hybrid vehicles. Uh, and I I know that was one of uh Mr. Goldsman's uh recommendation. I do like electric
vehicles for certain purposes like inspections. I think they're great. um for just sort of zooming around town and doing building inspections and all that. Um but uh you know we'd have to look into getting the chargers and and
and >> somebody called Tesla >> and what kind of Well, we have Tesla we have the Tesla chargers over at the library. So u we already have four of them. Uh >> charging. Can any does anybody know how much it costs to actually charge the vehicles? Do can we ever quantify that?
Yeah, you get a bill every time you go to one. >> No, for these two for these two uh for the buses. >> For the buses. >> So, and council president, I only raised that because the last time I was here, I used charge point. I tried to charge on those chargers and I'm unable to do so. So, I keep giving my money to the um
county at the zoo. And it's >> the ones here or the Tesla? >> No, the ones here. So, I I I just I would encourage the council and the administration to consider making those charge point chargers available to the public at a fee. So that's a revenue generating opportunity right there. And
then um to evaluate um >> the CBA wanted you to evaluate wherever possible electric vehicles for the fleet because the cost um is especially right now exponentially more affordable. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Miss Fennett. So, um, once again, I'm going to make a a recommendation to cut line 155 by 15K. We are still allowing a very generous
$24,000 cushion in the fuel budget and maintaining both the f the diesel and the regular gasoline budget as requested. Is there any second? So before we do
that, there was a motion for the consent and a second and then there was no vote on that and then >> Well, we have a consent and a second. We should address that first. >> Let's vote on that then. >> Remind what the motion was
>> to consent on the page as >> correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'll call on that. >> Okay. >> Um, Councilwoman Castleina, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> no. I'm still unclear on Mr. Diniac's position. >> Okay. Councilwoman,
>> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scar. >> Yes. >> And the motion carries. >> So, now if you're short on the diesel, you could for 15. >> So, my position was I did not want gasoline or diesel cut.
>> Um, fuel maintenance there. If we're looking just at fuel maintenance as a sub account, I thought there was room for $15,000 cut. So, >> okay, >> that was what I was working towards when I when I lost the floor.
>> I'm sorry. >> Okay, let's go to the next page. >> Okay, before we go to the next page, I would like to request an analysis on all take-home vehicles that are not being used for public safety. And that should
include all gas repairs and easy pass. >> Okay. >> Do I have an agreement that that will be provided? I've asked for it last year as well. >> Easy pass. We don't get charged except for out of state. >> I understand. That's what I would like.
>> Yeah, but >> you know, I didn't think the council was allowed to get that record from what I remember in the past. We're paying the bills. >> That's just what I remember. Councilwoman, >> you're not allowed the individual tolls. >> We are allowed to see the total of what
is being. >> Okay. Yeah, that Yeah. >> Yeah. That you're allowed to see not whether people are going to >> will that be provided? >> I don't know much. We've asked for this information before. We've had the discussions. We're here to
discuss the budget, not the debate, the operations of the department. We could have an offline conversation. >> Okay, we'll take that offline. Let's move forward. >> Thank you. >> 189. >> We could take a break. >> No, I think needs a break.
>> We all need a break. >> 6:55 is 3 hours. >> A Kit Kat break. >> Huh? >> 5 minutes. Okay. What do you need? >> Yeah. So, let us get out of here. That would be awesome. >> Perfect.
Okay, we're back from break. Thank you for sticking with us, >> Mr. Chinak. We'll move. >> Thank Thank you, Hresident. Uh we are moving on to electricity which is uh 194
on the PDF 189 in the handwritten page. Um there's an increase uh versus last year versus last year's budgeted. Um last year we budgeted 563,000. This year we're asking for 730,000. The
spend last year was 721,000. Um so I open it up to questions. If if we want updated totals, I can give you those updated totals. >> Okay. Okay. So, for line 144, which is
uh the building and and our other properties, um through through May, excuse me, a lot of pages here. Whoops. >> Have a question. >> Councilman, did you have a question?
>> No, that's okay. You uh he just offered to >> Okay. give the information >> back to Counciloman Castle. >> So, we are at uh $223,000 uh in spend. And then in wreck,
so wreck, I wreck, I think we actually do have some some room because we put some street lighting expenses in 2025 to this wreck budget. So that overstated um paid or charged, but wreck we're at
uh 61,000. >> You might want council council kak or you want to finish? I I just have a quick question in regards to wreck now part of wreck with >> with the school district on some of the fields are we picking up any of that or
because I know with the high school there's there used to be one meter we had I mean this is all metered out so wherever whatever is ours is ours correct getting reimbured from them >> we do not get reimbured from the board of ed for any electrical
electricity >> I know years ago it kind of over overlapped many years ago but then try to get on their own meters. So, we're good there then. >> Right. So, what what we do get reimbursed for um is for 10 Rooney for
the our tenant and our and our library. We do um get reimbursed. It's around $8,000 a month or $8,800 a month. Uh what's that? >> I I would say average would would be
around there. Um, >> and my my last question is with the rates because even looking at our own personal bills, I mean, you you expect it to go down anymore or it's kind of like mine's leveled off?
>> No. No. Without any sort of action from state of New Jersey or from that interconnect, you know, I don't see anything like that happen. >> Um, we entered into an agreement for the supply side of things. So we do those third parties um where we get some
savings on supply. Obviously transmission is always going to be PSEG. Um >> yeah. All right. And then you'll recommend to us what you're could take off for recreation. >> Yeah. So I think for recreation um you know we could probably take because that
street repair um street repair street lighting was 54,000 that got charged there. Um you know we we could We could probably take 40,000 out of there. I think I'd be comfortable with
for go going down to one uh 170 on on recreation. >> Councilman, >> go ahead. >> Councilman Kov, go ahead. >> Uh again, I don't seem to have the right version of the budget, but these numbers
do not look correct. If you look at 144 recommended budget 520 and then pay to charge through the first quarter, >> the next number adds those. >> Yeah, you're right. The remaining budgets are >> okay. So before you start talking about
>> you should >> because the same thing happened on the recreation. >> They added instead of >> So it's it looks like a formula problem. So I don't know what the actual actual numbers are but they're a lot less than
20 26 remaining budget >> right so it's would be 520 minus the >> minus I guess3 so right now 23 that's about 520
>> so what's the number >> if the spend numbers are correct then on the first Fine. >> You're about right. Maybe a little. >> So, you got 403,000 left over, >> right? >> But like I said, we're we're already at
223,000. >> That's for f only five months, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, it's another 223 plus another month. >> Yes. um in the 144 >> just from looking at the bills over the
past couple of months, the electricity in in the um 10 Rooney is between 11 and 14 and all of that money is reimbursed directly. >> No, not all of it. Some of it is our own meter. So, we do pay some of it. We only
get reimbursed from the library and the tenant, right? But there is there is a portion of that building that just is we paid for. >> But we are getting reimbursed at least 10 10,000 >> in 9,000 10,000. Yeah.
>> Okay. So even if we do that times 12 >> you get 120. Yeah. >> Yeah. We could reduce because this is it's just um being right right away reimbursed. It shouldn't be coming out of our budget. So um we can reduce this byund
120. >> Yeah. Yeah, but I still think that's just too much. Um, >> I >> it's it's it's literally coming back from the tenant. >> Yeah, I think I think you could do better there. I agree with her. Not that
whole amount, but >> you want to do 100K. You guys vote on it >> on which line item 144. >> Item 144. >> Yeah, I agree with that. Okay. Okay. So, I'll make that motion to
reduce that line item by 100. 100K. >> Instead of the 40, it's 100. Yes. >> Okay. >> Is there any discussion? No. No. >> All right. Hold on sec. Sorry. Um,
Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Councilwoman Williams, Council President SC. >> And then on the um electricity um recreation, that's gone
up a tremendous amount. And even though last year when we finally paid for it, that included the 57,000 that was charged for street lighting. So isn't there more wiggle room in there than 40k?
>> I mean, I've recommended 40k. I'm I'm going to stay with 40K. So, >> okay. So, I'll make a recommendation to reduce that by 40K. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kovac, >> yes.
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scar, >> yes. >> Could you give me the total numbers for this page, please? >> Sure. 630US 6 >> 590
590,000. You're right. >> That's the reduction on this page. >> That's a new amount. Yeah, it's $140,000 reduction. >> Okay. Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> Any opposed? >> Okay, it's consent. The motion carries. >> Oh, street lighting. >> It does. Okay. Absolutely. >> On uh line number
148, um we we've already reimbursed the condos for street lighting. We've paid it in the last bill, I believe. >> Correct. Yeah, we're done with condo reimbursements. >> So, we we don't really have anything
left over to pay. So, can we reduce that by uh 215880? Yeah, there's we're done with the condo street lighting. >> Okay. So, I'll hold that until, you know, we vote on this. Um,
and for for the street lighting, what is the actual amount that we have paid to date? >> 244,000. There's no room to cut street lighting. None. >> Okay, then. Um >> yeah because if you double it
>> before I I make a motion. Is there any other comment anyone? Okay. Is there a comment? So uh I'd like to make a motion to cut line 148 by $2,158. >> Second.
>> Okay. >> Okay. Councilman I'm sorry. Councilwoman Castle. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Council President. The motion carries. >> Second. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor?
>> Any opposed? >> Motion carries. >> I have a question on this next. >> Okay. We want to go ahead. Councilwoman Pesino. >> Sure. >> Great. 193. >> Next one is fire hydrant service. Um, this one is a set amount per month. It's
set forth by American Water. It's $77,088 a month. Um, >> so this one with the 950 because we went through this last year. There's this is an increase we cannot control. >> Right.
>> Okay. >> Right. This is set by American Water. It's flat fee and then they hit us with like these small dollar administrative fees every month. So >> Okay. >> That's Diane. >> Who's responsible for painting our fire hydrants? We are
>> That's a good question. Um, >> here we painted them. I think >> I I mean, American Water owns them. Like, we're paying American Water for them. So, I would without being in turn. I'm going to go on a
a line here and say they're responsible. >> Can we not Can we find out if they're actually financially responsible? because um you know obviously we've been walking around town a little bit. >> Okay. >> Um they don't look good. >> They look terrible. >> That could be a revenue generator.
>> Jack, I think the specifics of that would be in whatever contract agreement you you have. >> Yeah, they could sue. >> We'll talk to >> Yeah, we can >> our rep. Yeah, >> he may have done it just out of desperation. Yeah, it might have been
just out of desperation. >> Are you finished? >> I am. Thank you, >> Councilwoman. William Ruden, >> you'll find out. >> On line 141, what is the actual charge? Has it really gone up? $25,000 >> for the fire hydrants.
>> The actual charge is $77,88. >> $77,000. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And then there's like they get us with these program fee charges like a couple bucks a month. >> Okay. But >> telephones.
>> How does that comport to 950,000? >> It comes out more to like 925. >> 25. Okay. So then can we reduce this budget by 25,000? He has other fees though. He said >> yeah they're small fees. Let let me give
you an amount. Um, >> well, before we reduce that, can we find out if we need to paint them? And if we have a good idea, >> then we need to paint them because they look disgusting. >> Um, it doesn't cost 24 or $25,000 to
paint them. >> We don't know how many. >> This is not an art project. I think we >> This is covering fire hydrants. >> If you want to come back to this, I think >> I don't want to come back, but I'd like to I'd like to make a motion. We're talking about fire hydrants, not paint.
So to cover the the hydrants and >> so can I ask a question of you if if you had the exact cost then why is it budgeted higher >> because they were talking about an increase for July one haven't gotten a letter for it yet. >> So we don't know if they're going to be increased yet.
>> I don't know if they're going to do it or not. >> So tomorrow >> gave us a warning letter that they might increase for July one. So >> why don't we not cut and wait? Let's let's hold this until we get that answer at the next meeting because that's $25,000 on the table.
>> So, it says in New Jersey, public fire hydrants are maintained and painted by the local water utility companies such as New Jersey American Water or the local municipal water department. Private fire hydrants are residential or commercial property are the responsibility of the property owner.
Then it says the painting of fire hydrates is heavily regulated for several reasons and goes into all the different types of reasons. It's standardized color coding, safety and function. It says you could do a community project with Sher Sherwin
Williams. So another project. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> So So if so when do you think you'll get that bill? by the next meeting. >> No, they just they noticed us in the
beginning of the year that said they might do an increase to the fire hydrant on July one. We haven't got any letters. So, I don't know if they just they're not doing it or they haven't decided yet. >> Can you have somebody call tomorrow to ask >> to ask Zabth to reach out?
>> Okay. So, this way we could just make a final decision, not hold this up >> and downtown painted on American water. >> Yeah. When Pete comes back in, we'll >> I can tell him to contact the rep. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, she did have them painted.
Yeah. Downtown. They had American Water paint them. She had them come in. >> Well, we need to do a pan touring and an assessment around town because the ones that I've seen >> are horrible. >> Think they're functional. >> Oh, >> I mean, they're so >> Who's supposed to keep track of that?
The fire department. I don't know. >> Let me Google that. >> I don't know. Where's Pete? I don't know. >> Oh, yeah. That's >> You would know that. >> I I I know in in other towns that the fire departments do the inventories of
the hydrants, but we don't own the hydrants. I I So, I don't. >> So, then we have to come back to this page 193. >> Okay. We're just going to hold Yeah. Okay.
the hold pile. >> Okay. The final is uh water. Um we're keeping the same budget amount for line 147. And this is all to New Jersey American border. Um
we're currently at $20,000 uh through 5 months. >> What is water recreation? >> So that's for like St. Cloud Avenue, 46 Park Avenue, so parks and could be uh
water fountain, could be a bathroom. Um you got 19 Ralph Road, 20 Liberty Street, Carter Street Park. So small. >> Yeah, a lot of them are are minimum charges. So minimum charge is $26 for a fixture.
>> Are they opable? >> That that I could not tell you. I >> Yeah, a lot of these again. >> I think we probably should have someone who's responsible do the inventory because a lot of the water fountains in our parks don't work, >> right?
>> And they haven't worked for >> the toilets aren't open. >> Yeah. The to the bathrooms aren't functional. Yeah. But you want to get the bill charged. I hear have to be looked at it. But as far as our concerned tonight with the financial part of it is is you know what we're
getting built. So So right now you got bill 20 you paid out 20,000 to the end of May. Is that what you're saying? >> Okay. >> So there's no room to maneuver here. >> And then there's No, there really isn't. Then it's 5,000 for recreation.
>> Okay. Do you have any questions, CBF? >> No. Okay. We can >> I will talk to Edwin and um and our superintendent for DPW and see if uh we can check in on these >> stuff should be checked off. >> You know, we can take the bill and just
go make sure that each fixture is working. >> I'll second. >> All in favor? Any opposed? Okay. implemented. >> So, the the next section was going to be litigation expenses, which is really the
township attorney. Um, >> oh, yes, sorry, >> so if I don't have it marked and we're here, did we I know we had a conversation about page 197. This the New Jersey uh League of Municipalities
>> League. >> Did we approve that? I have it not marked. >> What page? >> I thought we did. We've already paid it. That's what I thought. I thought we made this and we had a conversation. >> I don't have any markings. It could have been the night I wasn't here.
>> I You know, I don't think we actually did talk about it. >> Oh, okay. >> I I'd like to make a move to consent. >> Wait for what? >> This is on the league membership for the >> said we already paid the bill. >> I'll second it.
>> It's already paid. Just just for housekeeping purposes, let's get it. >> Yeah. >> Cleaned up. >> Did somebody second that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we'll take the vote. I second it. >> Oh, you did. I'm sorry. Uh, is there a motion is So, >> all in favor?
>> Yeah. Thank you. >> I >> All in favor? I. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. >> Just getting back to the agenda. We did advertise for litigation. Are we tabling that? I don't think it's >> Isn't there any part of what we can that
we can deal with question is not here to answer. >> It's up to the council president. >> So I I >> I think >> I think that we can deal with some of some of the legal >> Well, do we want to get all the questions? >> Questions and I I think not having answers to the questions, we should
actually have >> like every other director has been in front of us when we've gone through their budget. So >> we need to have the director. >> It was coming. Can we get him on the phone? >> I thought he was >> That's what I had asked. He doesn't >> That's what I thought. >> Where is uh Mr. Smearaldo so we can
confirm? >> I don't >> He can't I I know Mr. Samaro can't be here. >> Oh, he cannot. Okay. >> Okay. So, let's just do him another time. >> I'll second to table it. >> Okay. Uh Councilwoman Castelino to
table. >> Uh yeah. Yeah, we can't get him here. >> Okay. Councilman Kakovia. >> Yes. >> Rud. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Did you say no? >> Table. >> To table. Did you say no? I'm sorry.
>> Because he is the director of >> Yes. If the motion to table it. >> Yes. So, I'm asking you what what your vote is. >> Yes. I'm voting. >> Okay. Thank you. Councilwoman Williams. Council President Scar. >> Yes. >> Sorry. The motion. >> Yes. Councilwoman Castelina. So, just just because I have these papers lined
up of what wasn't determined. I mean, again, did we do 198 medical transport filling? I have it circled with >> Are we That was one. >> Can we do that? >> We didn't have >> I mean, these aren't rocket science
questions, right? I'll make a list up and put it together for um a uh an agenda for every page. I'll sit with you and we can go through it and >> Well, I have 200. I do have a check mark
up for 200. >> We did 200. Yep. >> 2011. >> We did 2011. >> 202. We did >> we did the library. >> Yeah, we did those. >> Okay. So, just double check. Uh, Mag
wanted to do. >> We definitely did those. >> All right. >> I have them down. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Well, we're sorry some of hers aren't written down. >> That was that was Dena's meeting. >> Yeah, because I've missed one meeting. >> Just make sure you have that. So, 198
I'm putting in this pile with these other ones. >> 193. >> 198 medical transport billing. So 198 has to be talked about on the agenda. >> Yeah. >> So these are all good.
>> So are we done today? >> We just got to double check what we still need to do. Those are the ones I flagged out. You have any other ones we didn't do yet? Coming back to >> you want to look at
set up the agenda. >> We're coming back to 193. >> Yeah, we did a bunch of them already. >> Council President, sorry. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Councilman Kakovak has a question. >> Are we doing the joint meeting page? >> We actually did it last time. I I
apologize. We did it with uh when Dena was here. >> Okay. Okay. The the reason I raised the issue is because it if I do my math correctly, it looks like we're overbudgeted by about $175,000.
And I don't know I don't know how that might be impacted because we are now starting to reserve uh at the joint meeting. And so when we ordinarily would rebate back some of our payment, we're
going to hold back roughly 10% of that. So, I don't know what it's going to be impacting, but it could be another >> significant. >> Maybe we talk about it again then. Yeah, >> at the end. >> Yeah, we can add that. Well, we're going to go through them all anyway, but
>> Okay. So, >> Mr. Dinacc, are you going to give us all the cuts to date at the next >> Yeah. Yeah. And then >> Yeah. When we're done with the individual departments, we're going to go back and make sure we're all comfortable with
what's been proposed. >> I also need a motion in a second to uh table the township attorney. >> Okay. I'll make a motion. >> No, you litigation. I don't have a litigation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll make a motion to table the litigation >> and I'll second that.
>> Okay. All uh I'll just do a Yeah. All in favor? Any opposed? All right. The motion carries. Those are the ones I have that we need. >> We just need to double check to see what other pages we're missing.
>> 13 was done. 19 was done. 20. >> I know we >> do. We have to see if he'll do that. Can't you >> No, but in case we >> No, but I mean he that's the administration.
Well, 20 I have that that was with council meetings with taping. We can we talk about that? >> So, I'm looking at the the main page. I got the mayor's office complete, the council's complete, litigation to be determined, the clerk's office is
complete, has to be done. We did the planning board adjustment and then the zone board. We commission table municipal court's complete administrator not >> he said no. He said
insurance. >> We did. We did >> we already did all that. >> We did page 20. I just double check. >> Yeah, that was the question.
>> I'd have to look back on my direct computer over there. Super the library. We have the library is one the attorneys and stuff pages. We'll go
through you and I can >> Yeah, we go we'll go through it. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We'll go through it and then we'll send everybody a listing and say take a look. You agree? And then we can set the agenda. >> That'll be our last meeting. Oh, you
have to go over the whole thing. >> No, we're going to have another meeting after that. But >> why do you need another meeting after that? >> Because I know we're going to need another meeting. I just know it. I know it. >> So, should we come up with dates? >> Sure.
>> Yeah. We got to get this done. This is insane. >> Do we have another date post this meeting? >> No. We have the council meeting on the 7th and 21st. >> I have some planning board meetings on
Wednesdays. >> Which Wednesday are they? >> Um there's one coming up tomorrow. Um I'm not sure. I have to look. There might be one. We don't have a
>> thing. >> Tomorrow. >> Okay. So, I think we might be already. >> What about Thursday? >> Um, can I make a suggestion? >> We're only supposed to have one meeting in July. Can we do the the budget
meeting on the second town council meeting? >> I'm sorry. I I >> we're only supposed to have one meeting in July. >> We have two council meetings scheduled. If we take one of the council meetings and use it as a budget budget budget, >> I would suggest not to do that unless
unless we could put the ABC matters on there as well because there's c certain lences that haven't renewed yet. And I need >> I'm not going to recommend that too because the stuff we discussed at last executive session, we have things we have the salary ordinances and other and other items we said we would we would
get done on the 7th and 21st. Yeah, there's been certain ordinances that are advertised for both. >> So So we have to >> Well, is that Are you going on vac? Anybody >> you need to
>> So if we have a council meeting on Tuesday the 7th, >> would anybody be opposed to having a budget meeting on July 9th, that following Thursday? >> I I cannot do it that day. >> The only thing is the mayor has open
office hours on the 9th. So, I would be I mean >> if we go to Monday the 13th. >> Monday the 13th. I'm fine. >> On Monday. >> I'm good with that. Um >> what time? >> Oh, I I can't get here at 4 that day because I got a >> Okay. Can we at 4:30?
>> Yeah, I should be at >> I >> at 3. I have a >> um I can't I can't start at 4:30. I can >> I can start later. >> I can start at at 6. >> You can't start at 5? >> No, I'm coming. I'm I'll be on a flight.
>> Oh, well, you're flying that day. >> I'm flying back that day. So, I cannot >> You may get prefer to have it on >> Tuesday the 14th is the next date then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The Tuesday 14th.
>> No, I I can't do that. >> Okay. I'm not going to make any more suggestions then. >> Yeah. No. Is there anything else that works for you that would be >> the 15th? >> I'm good the 15th. >> I'm not good the 15th. There's a FIFA watch party with the West. >> We don't know when the plan.
>> What about Thursdays? Can we focus on Thursday? >> On the 16th. I could do >> the 16th. >> I could do the 16. Can't do the 16th. >> I have something. >> I just know I have it in my head. >> Okay.
>> Then you're getting later and later in the month. I don't want to do the six o'clock on the on the Monday when she's >> because and get it like that's all right. >> If she missed the meeting, >> we got to get this done. >> Yeah, let's just get it. Get it done at the 6.
>> Listen, >> if I miss it then I'll miss it. >> Yeah, you can maybe tune in on the line on >> I don't think so if I'm on the plane. But >> so I told you guys could have met while I was gone because I don't want to hold anybody out. Um, >> and and we should be meeting nobody if as long as we have a majority or a
quorum, we should be meeting like everybody can send their notes. >> So, why don't we go go for the six o'clock and just pray that you don't get >> Which day is that? >> Um, the it was that t was it the Monday or the Tuesday? >> Monday the 13th. >> And just get it over with. >> Okay. Monday the 13th
>> at 6 o'clock. >> Six o'clock. >> Right. >> Okay. And do we let's do a second date if we can please before everybody's calendars fill up. >> How good that will be. >> So if we're going to do the Monday the 13th, is there a reason? What did
someone say no to Thursday the 9th? Oh, that's >> Tuesday is the council meeting. Oh, you said no because >> we could do it. That that shouldn't matter. >> Well, it doesn't matter that she's got office hours. Let's do Yeah. >> Yeah, I would do that.
>> Okay. The nth. the 9th >> at 4 p.m. >> Yeah, at 4 p.m. >> We have one on the 9th, too. I don't think we have >> hours. >> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, >> through the night. >> But he's he sits in with her opening. >> Oh, so she could she could handle it
herself for one thing. >> She has to have someone. >> Well, send somebody else. I'm sure we could find somebody to sit with her and to answer questions >> from residents. I may have to do a zoom in on the night.
>> All right, that's okay. That's great. The 9th at 4:30 or 4 o'clock? >> 4 o'clock to 10. >> Okay. >> One second. Can Can I just check my calendar? >> Yeah. >> And then the 13th at 6. >> Yes. >> To 10.
>> And hopefully that'll do it. One second. >> Just want to confirm. >> We're done. I I'm not sure just >> Madam Clerk, you'll send me confirmation on those dates, please. >> How many people are on Zoom? >> Okay. You said >> all the
>> on on the n on the 9th at 4:00. >> I cannot do I cannot do that day. >> That's okay. >> Is that your fine? >> No, I'm just I'm booked that day. >> That's okay. We Nobody needs to know what anybody needs to do because it's the
>> No, no. Just so so we're on we're on >> on for the the 13th. >> Correct. It's 6 o'clock. >> Okay. >> And then what other day I hate to say this, but what about Thursday the 2nd? >> Yeah. >> Two in one week. >> I'm good.
>> Thursday. >> Tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> No, the next day. >> It's a holiday weekend. >> Thursday is the second. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Never mind. Never mind. >> Yeah. You got a holiday on third Friday. >> All right. >> Yeah. Thursday. >> Oh, tomorrow's Wednesday.
>> Tomorrow's Wednesday. >> Not fair to not fair to staff. >> All right. Sorry. >> They're off on Friday. They need to go home. >> What's the problem? >> Totally. >> Wait, this staff is off on Fridays? >> Yeah, this Friday. >> This Friday. >> Well, what about Friday the um No, I'm
sorry. >> Fourth of July weekend. >> Yeah, it's a holiday. It's a holiday that day for the S on the third. night off or off? >> Off. >> Right now we have the 13th from
>> so with one of us we done budget hearings with one person not here before. Why have we again it doesn't make sense. We we complain about not getting the budget in and then we're missing one person. I mean, with all due respect, we we waited
two weeks so that Councilwoman Castelino could not be I told you you didn't have to. >> But I'm not and and she said And she said we did not have to. >> True. >> We need to get our budget done. And if you're not going to be here on the 9th, then we can still continue. You can mail in your questions.
>> You can mail in the questions. You can't do the ninth. >> John can't do the ninth. >> Okay. Just just uh let's go with the 16th and everybody 13th and then we'll >> Yeah. But by the time we come back and do that then everyone
>> make sure Mr. >> Samero can be here on whatever the next fall by the next day. >> That is very true. >> And I rather him be in person probably like to do a Zoom call would be a little painful I think.
>> Yeah. to be in person. Why don't we set another >> Can we do it before the >> I don't know what the schedule is because he does represent the town. So, we pick a second date, but these are the two days we have. >> So, we're not going back and forth. >> Can he come before a council meeting since we Why don't we do a little an
hour before a council meeting for him so he doesn't you have to you have to advertise part of >> Well, if we advertise it. >> If you're talking about on the 13th, the council woman's going to be a little late. If you want to start at 4:00, we should probably start if we only have one date. Why don't we just start at
4:00 with some >> on the seven? >> Yeah, we do. We do public comments. We we spent an hour and 15 minutes before we got into any budget item. >> So, you know, by that time maybe the council will get here and
>> so I'm just saying we could we could start. >> Can you give your questions? >> Wait, the next meeting is the seventh. Is he available on the 7th? Yeah. Like do it. >> Yeah. right before like an hour before. Just do him. >> Just do him. >> If he's going to be here anyway, maybe
>> don't schedule anything for executive session and just >> really You think we're going to get the litigation and the attorney? >> No. >> Absolutely. >> Two hours. >> Um Madame Clerk, what is the the the uh notification that you need? How much?
You need 48 hours. >> 48 hours. Yes. >> So, do we have time to do for the July 2nd? I'm not doing no staff already passed, but I thought it was off. Staff was off on Friday. Okay.
>> Yes. But Thursday, you want to go down >> going away. >> Yeah. People go to People go. >> Can't do that. >> They go to >> That was Yeah, I can't do that. That's not nice. >> No. No. The staff should not work. >> The staff should not work day before a holiday. >> Notice what they do.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Would you do what? >> It's not like this is urgent. >> I don't care. We do the 12 to seven. >> Yeah, that's what I said. 5 to plan to come either on the 7th or what's the other date? >> Store it early.
>> Why don't you just come in early? >> Yeah. Couple hours. >> So, why don't we do this? I'll talk. >> Yes, Kim. >> And I'll say what can we do? And then I'll send it out to you guys so we can try to figure >> Yeah. But we have one date that is >> we have one date for the other stuff on the other date which we should be able to
>> and then if it's only him left we'll see what the earliest you can make it here the day of the meetings. >> I could come anytime >> I can come anytime. >> I could come after >> you're talking about on the 13th. >> No no no on the 7th or the 21st. What's
the earliest weed before the council meeting? We could cancel the conference agenda. >> Yeah, cancel the conference agenda. >> Whatever you need. >> Okay, Councilman, is that good for you? >> Got it. >> Okay, there we go. >> An hour night.
>> You better bring You better get the sandwiches. >> Get a good night's sleep. >> And I'll bring the coffee cups. >> Make sure it's 80 made. Make sure it's movie studio. We don't need We don't need every We don't need a lot night. That's true.
>> No, we sure don't. >> All right. So, now can we adjourn? >> So, four to seven. >> Well, no. We're gonna >> Well, that that's hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. We're going to see if we do. >> We're going to see if we could do 513. >> Yeah. 4 to see how far we get. >> Yeah.
>> How about 4 to 6:30? That way you got a half hour break. I want to like get a little eat. >> That we also we need any additional consider the 21st as well. >> Right. >> Yeah. Whatever marks. >> Whatever marks available. >> Okay. >> Move to agend second.
>> All in favor? Any post? Okay. And get this done, people.