Good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for May 6, 2025. Thank you for bearing with us. We are just a little bit behind schedule. Uh at this time, I'm going to turn the floor over to Council President.
Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Just as an explanation, uh we've had a couple of casualties for tonight's meeting. Uh both Councilwoman Gabbor Michael and Councilwoman Scarpa are recovering convolesing from some recent uh uh maladies and it's nothing terribly
serious but they can't make it tonight. So, we wanted to make sure that they were here and and on board uh before we started. And usually at this point, I will turn this over to uh Madame Clerk and after she's finishes, I'd like to
just uh ask your tolerance for a short uh announcement. Sure. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, Chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The annual notice was emailed
to the Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, present. Councilwoman Gabber, present.
Councilwoman Ruden, here. Councilwoman Scarpa, present. Council President Koviaak, here. Mayor McCartney. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Uh, before we get to the conference agenda, I need to
briefly address an important issue. While presiding over the last council meeting, April 22nd, I was unprofessional and disrespectful to Councilwoman Gber when I tried to abruptly end her commentary and move the
meeting forward. I have apologized to my colleague and I now apologize to the West Orange community for my incivility and unprofessional behavior. I pledge to modify and moderate my approach to more
civily and respectfully try to speed up the meetings. Shorter council meetings are the one issue I can think of where the entire community is on the same page. So I ask that we all continue to contribute
where we can. Uh Councilwoman Gver Michael as I mentioned who is going to be coming in remotely as she conileles has asked to speak at this point. Councilwoman, thank you uh so much. So first I want to thank Council President Koviaak for his
public apology tonight. Um I appreciate him taking accountability and creating space for healing. He's also um came to my h to my home and offered a sincere and heartfelt apology. We had a meaningful and honest conversation with my 12-year-old son, Marco's present. As
a mother, it was important for my son to witness what accountability, humility, and leadership can look like in real life. And that moment wasn't just about resolving a conflict. It was about modeling integrity and responsibility for the next generation. And while I
deeply believe in the separation of church and state, as an Orthodox Christian, I also believe in the power of forgiveness. And I've I've chosen to forgive in our council president. We may not always agree, but we can and must work together in a way that honors the role each of us was elected to serve,
and every member of this council has an equal voice and deserves to be heard. Now, on a more personal note, I'm logging on briefly uh tonight because I'm currently recovering from a lower back procedure. And some of you may have noticed that I often stand during our
meetings. And that's because I continue to live with significant spinal issues from, you know, a car accident that changed my physical reality. So, standing helps relieve some of that discomfort. And though I'm in pain, I'll be logging off to rest and recover. I just want to show up and express my commitment to the people of West Orange.
And you know, to the residents, the many residents who reached out to me after last meeting, thank you. You know, thank you so much. Um, I love this town. I love serving our community and I will continue advocating for what's right with the steady focus on good governance. So, um, and I just want to
say thank you again to Council President and to the public who've reached out and, you know, I'll see everyone at our next council meeting. Thank you so much. Thank you, Councilwoman. I'll just ask if uh other council people wanted to comment at all or No, just feel better.
Councilwoman, thank you so much. I hope both of our our um sick council people feel better. And Joe, I really appreciate that you made a public apology to u Miss Gabra Michael.
Uh Councilwoman Scarpa, did you have anything to add? No, I don't. But I just want to say that I'm sorry that I can't be there with all of you. I have a fractured elbow and a lot of back pain which uh Councilwoman Asmer Gabra
Michael knows about. But hopefully I will recover in the next couple of weeks and and be there next time. Sounds good. Thank you. Uh before we get onto the conf conference agenda, I just wanted to uh applaud uh Sally Malanga, who's a local environmental
activist, lives in longtime West Orange resident, who has been trying for a couple of council meetings now to make a presentation at the conference agenda. It started uh she wanted to present on Earth Day and we couldn't fit her in and when I was telling her how challenging
the conference agenda was for tonight, she offered to just put it off for another two weeks. So, uh, I really wanted to just acknowledge, uh, uh, that, uh, gesture and it's going to help speed up our meeting. So, on to the conference
agenda. Uh, first on the list is a pro proclamation for lupus awareness month. I think the mayor put that on, so I'm going to, uh, turn it over to the mayor at this point. Please, not sure if anyone from the is
[Music] here. As I read the proclamation, council president and I wanted to also say that since we served together for 10 years, you have always been civil and responsible and receptive and I do
appreciate your apology because I was very uncharacteristic of you for the years that I've been. Thank you. So, Lupus is lupus awareness month whereas lupus is an unpredictable and
misunderstood autoimmune disease that can cause severe damage to the tissue and organs and body and in some cases death. More than 5 million people worldwide suffer the devastating effects of this cruel and mysterious disease. And each year 100,000 young women and
children around the world are newly diagnosed with lupus. great majority of whom are women of childbearing age. Medical research efforts into lupus and the discovery of safer, more effective treatments for lupus patients are underfunded in comparison diseases of
comparable magnitude and severity. Many physicians worldwide are unaware of symptoms and health effects of lupus causing people with lupus to suffer for many years before they obtain correct diagnosis and medical treatment. There
is an unmet need to educate and support individuals and families affected by lupus and to increase awareness in communities worldwide of its debilitating impact. Special appreciation is extended to the Essex County branch of buttery welfare a
nonprofit organization dedicated to improving quality of life by providing education resources research funding and support for those affected with this. So there may Susan Carney town council here
proclaim the month of Mayus awareness month which lus organizations to offer increases in public and private sector funding for medical research targeted education programs for health professionals, patients and the public and recognition of as a significant
health public health. I have had students and families um that have severely suffered and I just thought that's important to no matter the difference between the person.
Thank you, mayor. Uh al also, as long as you're up there, the next item on the uh agenda for the conference agenda is uh a presentation by the Daughters of Israel. And I suspect you know uh more about this than I do. So perhaps you could just uh introduce and
thank you as to we're looking to comply with our affordable housing obligations fair share housing um of Israel. I know that everyone received a letter from Daughters of Israel um about their denial of their zoning board. Um,
council president, you and I know very well, uh, three years of mediation with fair share housing. Uh, we had a West Essex. We have, we are presently listening to West Essex silence application. Um, the intervener there
homes initially presented 1,293 homes and took three years to remediate that. So without having a plan and planner which has been requested of this council um I'm afraid we may be facing the same
situation. So I can believe that you received a letter from voters of Israel and they may be in the same position. Great. I I I see here uh Mr. Inglesino
uh uh Mr. Banish and I don't know what Sean uh Mr. Delaney uh if you wanted to give the presentation please take it away. Um if you feel more comfortable speaking there uh you can do that. We can pull that down. Thank you mayor. And you could speak here. That way you can
speak to both the people in the audience. Yes, please. Please. So you'll have to forgive me. I don't know what else you need. uh if you just uh uh if there's anything you need from us or if you want to just uh take it away.
Take it away, Mr. C. Thank you very much. By the way, my name is Johnny Casino. I'm attorney representing the Daughters of Israel and pleased to be joined by representatives of the builders of Israel here tonight.
Silver chair of the board Thompson the executive director David Stafer chief financial officer and other members of the board and friends and borders of Israel. First and foremost we want to thank all of you for joining us this
time this evening to address you. Uh and frankly we're here to ask for your help. Uh we're asking ask we're here to ask for your help to help us transform our aging skilled nursing facility into a state-of-the-art continuing care
retirement community which is known as CCRC so that the Daughters of Israel can continue its 120year-old mission of providing highquality health care for senior citizens here in West Orange. CCRC communities are generally viewed
favorably by municipalities because they have minimal impacts on them. No skill, no school children, minimum impacts, etc. Now, the Daughters of Israel is a non sectarian, award-winning skilled nursing facility who has served Western
Orange facilities, West Orange residents for more than 60 years at 1155 Pleasant Valley Way here in West Orange. The non sectarian means that the daughters of Israel benefit people of all faiths, people of all colors and creeds, not
just the Jewish community. And as such, the Daughters of Israel benefits the entire community, just not a portion. In the past three years alone, Daughters of Israel has cared for over 513 residents. 150 of those residents most recently
resided in West Orange before calling Daughters of Israel their home. Daughters of Israel is part of the fabric of this community and is one of the places that makes West Orange such a great community. You may or may not know
this, you all probably do, but members of the community may not, that Daughters of Israel uh provides meals on wheels through the Essex County Meals on Wheels program. Former mayor myself, I'm very familiar
with this program. Daughters of Israel delivers one meal per day to more than 40 West Orange need seniors and three meals on Friday for the weekend. And on holiday weekends they get the meal not only for that day but also for the holiday weekends. The hearty meal for
the steamers which they do in partnership with Essex County. Daughters of Israel is a training site for nursing programs in the area including the Essex County School of Nursing. And Daughters of Israel provides transportation services for seniors and developmentally
challenged adults. 30 out of 45 trips are for West Orange residents. things like doctor's appointments, salon and nail appointments, and things of that nature. Mic is not being picked up by the Zoom audience. You might Oh, do I have to
start over? No. Okay. Uh, so 35 of 45 30 trips for West Orange residents for things like doctor's appointments, nail appointments, shopping, groceries, etc. your everyday necessities. But unfortunately, this this facility is
aging out and if it's not redeveloped into a CCRC facility, it will force be forced to close within the next decade and probably on the sooner side of the next decade. And that would be tragic for those West Orange families who will not have daughters of Israel to care for
their loved ones in the future and for those residents who will no longer be able to call West Orange their home. The proposed redevelopment of the of the facility was denied by the zoning board of adjustment and is now in the courts. Putting that aside, we're hopeful that
the township will work with us directly on a plan that will transform this aging facility into a new state-of-the-art CC CCRC to serve West Orange families for the next 60 years and beyond. Alternatively, if you elect not to work
with with us in this regard, the Daughters of Israel is requesting that its site be included in the West Orange Round 4 affordable housing plan. As you will hear in a moment, multif family housing with an affordable component will will be much more impactful on the
township and particularly neighboring property owners. But that is the path we would be forced to take if we can't move forward on the CCRC plan. Now, we sent you a letter, as was referenced a moment ago, dated March 25th, outlining all of
this in greater detail. So, as we see it, the township has a choice. Work with us on a new CCRC project where the site will be redeveloped with multif family development. Duros of Israel prefers to work with you in partnership to
redevelop this site with a new CCR facility to continue its mission here. In the brief time we have, I want to call up Frank Banish. Frank is a respected planner. He's also a special adjudicator uh in the courts in Mount
Laurel proceedings. And I think he'll you'll find his perspective interesting in terms of what West Orange faces in regards to its round four affordable housing challenges and its round three unmet need challenge. Frank
Good evening everybody. Thanks for the opportunity for us to speak to you. The work that I've been doing for the last uh 20 25 years as a special adjudicator has put me in a lot of settings where municipalities have
either tried or tried not to meet their fair share obligations. uh municipalities with very large numbers like some of the numbers you've dealt with and we'll be dealing with aren't always very successful. I think I think it's is this the right
one? Okay. I think it's commendable that you satisfied the prior round obligation that you got a vacant land adjustment in the third round that you satisfied that third round obligation. That's what they call doing pretty good. I think the
reason that I would like to advocate again as I did as the as the expert testifying on behalf of the daughters for the initial concept that was brought before the township is because I really feel that that's the kind of a facility
and a a benefit to a community that doesn't come back once it goes away. It's one of those things that performs a variety, as you just heard, of important services, but at the end of the day, either it can advance, reinvest itself, reinvent
itself through some reinvestment, or as we heard, suffer a relatively long period and maybe not so long period of decline. And at that point, the property will again become available for development. When I look at the numbers that even in light of the great performance, and I mean that very
sincerely, that you've done on your affordable housing obligation, the present need for round four is 409 units. That's probably something that you're going to try to deal with through rehabilitation, but the prospective need is 660 units. And the portion of the
prior the third round need that you were not able to complete because you didn't have to because of the vacant land adjustment was another 533 units. So if you add all that together, you're just shy of 1,200 total units. And while most towns would prefer not to see
inclusionary development as the primary or the only way that these units are delivered, the courts have long since the initial Mount Laurel litigation invited developers to be their partners in providing affordable housing. And I
think that the Fair Housing Act, the amendments to the Fair Housing Act have only Can you tell that the police station is right next door? I've I've bombed pretty badly before. Um I have no idea where I was now.
uh the concept that was brought before you about which I testified is inherently beneficial because of the type of facility it is and the services it provides. The best way for the daughters and the township to be able to go forward would probably not be back at
the zoning board. It would probably be if you were to embrace the concept for there to be a reszoning. The problem with that is always there's a master plan amendment involved and there's the actual reasoning process which takes time. And if you go to the board of adjustment in the middle of a situation
like we're in where litigation allows us to move much more quickly, the zoning board may well be the best chance we have to do this soon. But I do believe that the property will become extremely attractive to the types of national and regional larger scale developers that we
see because you don't find property this size already flattened out the way this is uh in the town with this kind of credit for people. So I think it's logical for you to assume that it's going to be highly soughta as a development site. And I hope that we
don't find ourselves in that situation because I do believe it'd be great if if we can work something out where the the daughters can continue and improve the services they provide. I'm sorry I took so long. Thank you for your time. I got the I got the tap on Well, we're trying to be we're trying to be to the point so
we don't drag out these council meetings anymore, Mr. Council President. I can appreciate that having been in that position. Um, one more person here from briefly, Sean Delaney, who is our civil engineer. And look, we're here tonight to really present you with a concept
that we can work in partnership with you on. And there are a lot of different ways in which we can go about working together uh to address whatever issues folks uh may have with any development on the site. Uh the idea is we want to
create this partnership relationship with you to be able to do that. Uh because if we can't do that, then we're we just we just can't, you know, let the clock run out on a facility that's aging and needs to be upgraded in order to serve its mission. We're going to have
no choice but to put it out for multif family development. And that's not what we want to do. That's not what we want to do. We want to continue to service your residents here. We want to continue to provide the other service and benefits that we talked about. Sean is just going to very briefly in a very
10,000 foot kind of a way show you the differences between what a multif family development may look like on the site and what a CCRC project may look like on the site. Understanding that the multif family development concept we think
greatly understates what the development community would be looking to do. Good evening. So before we dive into what the affordable housing concept uh would look like, I think it'd be appropriate to look back at the previous plans that were submitted to the zoning board. So what's sitting on the the
front pew in front of us here is the presentation board that was submitted as a part of this application prepared by KDA architects um based on site plans that our office had prepared. The subject property is lot 12 in block 171. It's an irregularly shaped property with
an area of approximately 18 acres. It fronts on the west side of Pleasant Valley Way and the existing Essex County Golf Course is across the street. Mr. Delaney, I apologize for interrupting you. Uh, I have a request if we could just sort of raise Yeah. the level of the poster,
please. What? You may even be able to put it right on that chair. Whatever your preference. Yeah. Well, that's good. Thank you. Yeah. Do you see it, Councilwoman? As was noted, the the prior application
called for the construction of a CCRC. This CCRC was a four-story building that contained a total of 84 skilled nursing beds, 64 assisted living beds, and 163 independent living units. At the time that this project was
proposed, the building had a footprint of approximately 122,000 square feet with a 117 foot setback to the front yard. That's Pleasant Valley Way. A 100 ft setback to the north on this board that's planned right to the residences
to the north. We had a 300 ft setback to the south, which is Kesler's property, and a 170T setback to the rear. To support this proposed use, uh we called for the two existing entrance drives to be reused. What we kept referring to is
we designed it as the loop road to wrap around the building and that serviced right access to the parking lots and the loading at the back of the building. In total, the site contained 392 parking spaces, 115 of which were located under the building in the front portion
against Pleasant Valley Way. As presented in the traffic reports for the prior application, the peak traffic generation from the site was exe. Is that better? The sorry the peak traffic generation from the site was 59 acres
and that was expected during the peak hour. Um just looking at the site globally from a grading and drainage perspective, sorry, a gradient and disturbance perspective. The previous plan generally held the limits of existing disturbance um which helped minimize disturbance to the steep slopes and it even helped minimize disturbance
to the trees. The prior application called for 181 trees to be removed. However, those were predominantly within the center of the site uh and had been planted throughout the years. I hope you saving time. So what we have in front of you now is
the affordable housing alternative for the proposed for the site. In order to develop this housing alternative, we looked at other redevelopment projects within the town to get a reasonable understanding of the bulk requirements and the densities involved. The two projects that we took the closest look at is the Stonehill Apartments that was
currently built or previously built behind the Essex Green Shopping Center um and the redevelopment for the for the Redwood which is actually located along Pleasant Valley Way further up further north and closer to the Montlair Country Club. Both of these redevelopment ordinances allowed for a density of 24
units to the acre and this served as the basis of this concept plan in front of you. So again, we have an 18 acre site at a density of 24 units to the acre. We're able to have a proposed development that contains 432 apartment units. The front building
is an Sshaped building that includes parking underneath it. The building to the rear is U-shaped with a long leg that extends to the north. Uh there's a courtyard located located within the center of that U. At the rear of that second building, we are proposing a
four-story parking deck that changes to a three-story deck as it climbs up the hill. Overall, the total footprint of the buildings and the parking deck are approximately 140,000 square ft. The front yard setback for that front building is 107 ft from Pleasant Valley
Way. The sideyard setback to the north is 120. The sideyard setback to the south is 106. And finally to the rear, it's 150 ft. Just like the prior plans, this concept proposes to maintain the two existing entrance and exit drives from Pleasant Valley Way and create a
loop around the site that's going to be used to access the buildings and the various parking lots. Based on a parking ratio of two spaces per unit, which is standard in both those redevelopment ordinances and RSIS standards, a total of 864 parking
spaces would be required. 361 of these spaces are proposed in those parking decks that we had mentioned. Another 129 are located underneath that front building with the S-shape. From a traffic perspective, this uses significantly more intense
than the CCRC. So again, the CCRC had an anticipated peak hour of 59. A development of this size uh would be expected to be over 300 vehicles in a peak hour. Um and if a developer pushed for more units, that would only go
up. Finally, the tree removal associated with this is slightly larger. while we held the limits of disturbance on the north and south sides the same uh in the rear we're adding that parking deck is going to result in more steep slopes disturbance uh the removal of more trees
totaling about approximately 250. So council members just to conclude first of all again thank you for permitting us this opportunity. Um we're just asking for an opportunity to work with you. we can work with your professionals to structure a path
forward or the CCRC project if that's what you desire. Um, there's change coming to this property. There's change coming to this property. That that's the first thing I want to impart. This property is not going to stay as it is
forever. And this is the moment. This is the moment where you're going to decide how that change occurs. Is it going to be the CCRC project? Or is it going to be something else? Given the laws of the state of New Jersey, given, you know,
all of that, given the township's large affordable housing obligation, the board has a fiduciary duty to its organization and will have no choice but to seek multif family housing on this site. Um, and I know it's a tough position for you all to be
in, but we believe that by working in partnership with you that we can create a development here, a CCRC project that you'll be proud of and one that will continue to serve the people of West Orange. Not only those who live there, but those of your residents who don't
live there, who we serve today. And hopefully that will create a win-win uh for the Daughters of Israel and for the Township of West Orange. Again, thank you very much for your attention and hopefully we look forward to continuing the dialogue.
Thank you, Mr. Jonino. Well, okay. Uh, council president, if I could, I would just recommend the council not comment after the presentation in light of the possibility of litigation. Just wanted additional information. Uh, please go ahead, Councilwoman.
So, are we getting information on both of these pictures that you showed us emailed to us? Because I would also like I would also like to see what's currently there and an overlay of the expansion.
Sure. We I mean we can certainly provide that uh so that you can understand what's there now uh versus what is going to what is proposed. Uh and again that would be part of a collaborative process that we hope that we're going to be able
to undertake uh to to build a a new and better facility. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. and thank you to your colleagues coming here. You have these by the way in the attachments to the letter that we sent.
So you have these we didn't provide talk like you have any further questions. Thank you. Thank you. Uh next on the agenda is our town engineer who is going to describe
hopefully in uh sufficient detail uh the project that is being proposed for 10 uh Rooney Circle which uh is home uh the new home of our uh public library. Miss Carvalo, thank you.
Good evening, council president, council members, uh, our audience in Zoom as well as in the council chambers. Miss Carella, I'm sorry to interrupt you. If you would like to sit, there's plenty of room up here on the left side in the first
couple of uh, rows. Thank you. Please go ahead, Miss Carbalo. Sure. So, tonight we're going to be speaking about we're talking about the West Orange Library improvements, and we're going to break it up into two phases. Phase one, which is the one that was completed actually last year, and we're going to
talk about phase two, which is the one on our ordinance tonight. So for phase one, everything that was completed and it was required for the West Orange Library, there were improvements to the lower and upper level. Some of those improvements um included the demolition
of the interior partitions to the building, some of the vents, the sanitary sewers, the mechanical room, as well as the water. There also needed to be improvements in the interior for the bathrooms, kitchen, ceilings, the stairs, and doors. There were also a front desk circulation area that needed
to be constructed. There were also library wall partitions for those that were demolished for the specific rooms. You got also interior lighting, service utilities such as water, gas, and electric. There were also upgrades to
our mechanical, electrical, and plumbing system in the building. There was also a fire alarm system and a sprinkler heads installed. And as an alternate of the improvement that was part of the bid, there was also exterior improvements to what is known as the plaza or patio
improvements that included landscaping, a retaining wall as well as benches. Throughout the construction process, there were approximately 18 change orders. Okay? And each one of them is numbered here. The first one was
the floor load analysis. That was approximately $7,000 in change or 69.50 50 that had to do with the fact that the loading on the shelves uh needed to be analyzed since the building was actually an office building. So that was part of
the uh first step or one of our concerns when the project got started. The second one was a demolition for additional uh HVAC duck work. That also came up to be about $25,000 $400
and change or so. um that was also sort of like discovered during the uh demolition process of the uh partition walls. We also had to replace drywall um within the building and that was additional work for the contractor. That
was approximately 6,00 600 square ft. That was about $14,000 and change. Then we needed to add water coolers for the upper and upper level for the library. Those were actually requested by the library. So, that was another I would say $17,000 in change. Uh, then we go to
change order number six, which was also uh included replacing the exterior war. The exterior wall for the HVC louvers with solid metal panels. That was roughly $14,000. Change order number seven was actually a survey of the existing alarm
system. Um, and that was roughly $1,700. change order number eight. We actually had to remove and soak um electrical work within the uh building that turned out to be another
$6,900. Change order number nine. There was also rooftop equipment that needed to be installed. So the additional structural steel for that came up to be about 175. Number 10 was actually some light switches for five different rooms within
the library. That was also additional electrical work. That was about $2,100 in change. And 11 was also additional electrical work. Number 12, we had to add also uh fire alarm upgrades based on the survey that was previously done for
change order number seven. So that ended up costing closely to $26,600. Uh number 13, we actually had a meeting with New Jersey American Water and we found out that the existing water
system and domestic line to the building was not in compliance with New Jersey American water regulations and the vault needed to be changed and bring it closer to the uh Rooney Circle within 10 ft of the uh property line for us for them to
actually provide us water. Otherwise, we were not going to be having any water. So the domestic lines um improvement turn out to be about almost $138,000 or 137700. Um there was also a water leak repair that was actually found um within
the building at the time of construction and luckily this was found prior to any other work being done. So we got about $4,200 and change on that. We also had to do manual solar shades added to the contract. That was another $8,400
roughly. And we also had to do pipe work for outdoor air system. That was about $67,500. And we had to do pavement restoration for gas trenches. That's also part of the utility work that needed to be done. So that was about roughly $39,500. And to supply and install an
aluminum fence for the patio area in the outside, we have about $15,280. So the contract amount that was a when when it was awarded back in May of 2022, it was about $5,75,000. Throughout the project and throughout all the change orders, we
added an additional cost of $46,97267, which brought the final project cost to 5,481,97267. The percent change in the contract amount was approximately 8%. it stay well below 10%. Um, this type of change orders in this type of projects
when we're talking about millions and millions of dollars, it is not uncommon. As a matter of fact, when you do G DOT projects, you are allowed to go as high as anything less than 20% or about 19 and a half%. If you go over 20,
you actually have to do notices to people within 200 feet, which is what the public contract law requires. Okay. So, let's talk about phase two. Um, this is the future. And first, I want to give you basically what the
exterior of Rooney Circle right now looks like. So, for this project, there are no grants, zero grants, no monies. Everything is going to be 100% funded by the township. We need an appropriation approximately $2 million, which is based on our preliminary preliminary engineers estimate, and which is the bond that is
on tonight. So, the estimated actual cost is basically more or less $2 million. This is a picture actually of the deteriorated entrance um with the walkway or concrete area right in front of the doors as well as
the pavers. This area, it is a little bit uneven. Um there was actually a resident that felt on it last year. Definitely needs to be replaced and reconstructed in its entirety.
Also, we need to reconstruct our ADA access route to the building. Um, where you see actually um Belgian block curve, this is not ADA compliant. Every time that you have
handicap access, you this needs to be actually concrete. So in that way it could be actually flush with the pavement if anyone is on a wheelchair or anything so they don't have any obstruction. We also need to have some
railings along this path. If you look at this you still see the trenches from the uh you know various services that had to be provided. The pavement is not completely um I would say this level. Uh the same
thing with this area of the parking lot. You can see clearly some of the patches from the new pavement as well as the old pavement. There is a lot of cracks on the parking lot as well. This is another view of the uh
library parking lot. If you can see that the existing granite block curve is completely deteriorated. Uh you also see different patches, different um areas where it's actually missing. A
lot of the inlets are not in compliance with the uh NJP um castings for storm water regulations. And the same thing uh with the wall at the rear. This is actually at the uh rear of the library. The wall is actually very deteriorated
and it needs to be replaced. Here is more about that wall as you can see here. Nobody really can sit here. There actually uh some uh missing brick. The same thing with the parking lot or this driveway
that goes around. This is actually uh Route 280 right here. So this is that driveway that connects the rear of the parking lot area. You can see the castings are not in compliance today. You can see a lot of patching.
So, what are we proposing to do with the exterior improvements for the library? We're proposing actually to do the surface course or paving and the leveling course throughout the entire parking lot. The way the parking lot is now, it basically has uh the lower level
has um I would say base course and but there's a portion of the library that actually didn't get any pavement. Do you know why that was? I'm sorry to interrupt. Just before we move on, do you know why the the two inches of uh top uh course were never put down? We
were they were never put down because they were never part of the contract. And as a matter of fact, the base course was actually done by the developer who did executive drive as a courtesy basically to us at the time that he was doing their it was doing their paving. and actually requested uh when we met
with them at that time that they keep themselves away from the curb because I was fearful that if they mill or touch any of the curb the curb was going to fall out. So that's one go ahead we also proposing to replace the entire the entire granite
block curb around the perimeter of the parking lot. It is really not in good shape. Uh we're also asking to reconstruct the existing pavers by the main door entrance. We're asking, we're also going to be doing ADA compliant access walkways. We
are proposing to install 10 EV charging stations for electric vehicles. We're also going to be including as part of this improvements regulatory and warning signs throughout the site for vehicles to better maneuver. We're also ask we're going to
be adding landscaping and tree planting, a retaining wall, a book drop, an LED lighting in the parking lot. The parking lot right now doesn't really have any workable lighting. It's actually utilizing temporary lighting. We're also
going to be adding security cameras where currently there are none. We're also going to be proposing to install a 6 foot high uh black vinyl coated chingling fence along the boundary line, a rain garden fencing with several latching gate for the patio as well as
benches uh around the pond. Last but not least, as part of the project, it is the construction of the pickable courts. So, the pickable courts were actually part of the 2022 capital budget. There is approximately $700,000
appropriated in an account for this improvements. Uh the estimated cost could go between 500 and 700,000 and that will depend based on how we bid the project. So, the pickable courts will include four pickable courts, a sports lighting
and signage, removable ballers around the perimeter of the pickable court that faces the parking lot, emergency call boxes, muscular sport lightings, and obviously a retaining wall and access area around the uh pickable courts.
So this is an overall um exhibit of what the proposed improvements will be. So we are proposing to replace or at least in this area we're going to have to probably mill and then pave it to provide a surface
course. We're also pro proposing to add here a sidewalk where there is none as well as a crosswalk to provide continuous access to the library. So here we're also proposing another crosswalk with detectable warning
surfaces and curb limbs. We're also proposing to reconstruct the entire sidewalk in here. We're proposing all of this to be brand new. We're also proposing to have or relocate the ADA
access route with railings on both sides. We're also going to be reconstructing the existing concrete/papers at the entrance of the uh library. We're also going to be
providing seven handicap parking spaces in the easterly side of the building as well as two EV charging stations. We're also going to be providing landscaping at the perimeter of the
building. We're also going to be doing an entire pavement area of the entire rear portion of the parking lot or what is called the westerly side of the parking lot in parallel to 280. In this area of 280, we're going to be proposing also landscaping on every single one of
the various um concrete islands that we're proposing within the parking lot as well as providing access from the rear area of the parking lot in two points. I'm going to focus first on the front entrance. So, here we're going to provide parking spaces. We're also going
to provide sidewalk within the island that are going to be interconnected for pedestrians to cross. You're also going to have access here with a curb ramp and stairs and an access walkway
with handrails on both sides and a landing area right at this front steps that are currently in front of the main entrance to access the library. We're also proposing to put a gate right here with a self-latching gate for the patio.
Um, it was built by the uh library as a as a request for children. We're also going to be proposing a rain garden immediately adjacent to the existing patio. We're also going to be proposing in the westerly side closest
to 280. We're going to be proposing three handicap spaces uh with ADA compliant with an access route and curb ramps to the rear of the building. The rear of the building is going to have
a concrete walkway to the lower level. And this is all to be reconstructed in here. And in that way, ADA accessibility will be provided for pedestrians or anyone is in need. and you'll be able to
access the lower level and if you need to go to the upper level then you will take the elevator. We're also proposing to have here uh parking spots for the buses as well as two EV charging
stations. If you can come lower please to this area. Yes. So, in this area closer to the entrance by Executive Drive, we are proposing to have six EV charging stations as well as landscaping
as well as a fence that will tie into the existing fence at this bottom of the area along the entire perimeter along 280. We're also proposing a walkway for the parking spaces further away from the
library so that they have a route to access the library. So, we're going to we're proposing a walkway that brings them basically to this concrete or common area by the pickable courts and right here will be a crosswalk with curb ramps to come across and be able to
access the library. We're also proposing um sidewalk in front of the uh existing uh retaining wall by the patio so that there will be also access from the pedestrians to the library. There will
be lights at the the various islands in order to light up the parking lot. Last but not least, we're going to be proposing landscapings. Um, we're proposing shade trees, ornamental trees, and evergreens, approximately 93 of them
throughout the parking area or throughout the site. We're also proposing to in uh to plant shrubs where over 150 of them as well as many uh grasses or perennial grasses. Last but not least, we're also proposing the
pickable court. There's going to be four pickable courts at what I call the bottom portion of the um parking lot. The distance from the pickable court to the closest corner of the library is
approximately 200 ft. And the pickable courts will also provide uh sports lighting. Here are the uh one Musco light and in this island we'll be proposing the other one. There also will be ballers in front of the uh
pickable courts which are removable and the reason being will be for access. Uh there will be a perimeter fence a 10-ft high perimeter fence around the pickable courts as well as double gates for access in case of an emergency. Because of the change in
grade and how the terrain actually drops from the top of the library all the way down, we actually had to install a retaining wall or propose a retaining wall on the uh motor and westerly uh perimeter of the pickable courts. And
this in here will also be have a walkway or concrete for access for the uh residents or players who want to use the pickable courts. Right now there is six pond that is right here. There is an existing pond. We're proposing to uh
install some benches around that pond for enjoyment of anyone who visits the library or is using the pickable courts. I believe I have mentioned pretty much everything. If I missed anything, I apologize. I'm going by
memory. Oh yes, I forgot. Thank you very much. There will be a book drop uh right here. Okay. Uh within um the uh handicap spaces right on the uh easterly
side of the parking lot. Okay. Yes. And it's going to be covered. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Caravalo. You're welcome. Uh, Councilwoman Scarpa, do you have any uh comments or questions for
the town engineer? Um, just I was wondering about the EV charging stations. What is the cost of that? It depends. They could be uh the ones that we pick, I believe they're going to be about between three and five. You
also got to add the conduit to it. And the good thing about doing them now is that besides the fact that they are required by law to be EV charging stations on every single parking lot in New Jersey depending on the number of parking spaces that you have that it could be done simultaneously with the
uh I would say the parking lot lighting or electrical work that needs to be done. Now are these going to be revenue generators for the township or is this going to be another cost to the township? Council woman, we were looking at EV charging stations that would be per use.
Um, so the ones that we looked at, you can utilize credit card, so it would be at a cost to the consumer, not to to the uh township. So there's no revenue that would be generated by by the township. Well, no, we if they if we charge, we
would charge it would be a there would be a charge for electric. I guess that's an oxymoron. Um but they're um but yeah no we we would be looking at a system that would provide us whatever how much I don't know what the exact uh figures would be from the
collection but this would not be a free service it would be per use service similar to like if you I'll use Wawa as a as an example and why was it determined that this would be a good spot for EV charging stations how how was that determined
First of all, um, West Orange is one of those Excuse me for interrupting, Miss Carol. We need quiet in the audience. If you want to speak, please go outside. We're happy for you to talk. Just please do it outside. Thank you. Go ahead. Um, West Orange is um, one of the many
municipalities that have not one, but actually two uh, exit ramps or three route 280. And as part of the estate plan, we should be one of the townships that is providing EV charging stations. The ones proposed in this location in
the rear or near Executive Drive. It is so that if anyone that needs to use them, they could park in the back and utilize them and not be utilizing the parking in the front or where the uh residents will most likely be parking to utilize the library as well as the uh
pickable courts. Also, I had a question about the pickle ball courts. That's going to make a lot of noise right next to a park-like patio. Well, I was just on the library actually last week. I was presenting this to many of the library
boards and I was actually talking to our uh VA and when we were outside and I'm thinking to myself, if they don't hear any of the traffic that is going on on 280, you're not going to hear any of the pickable courts when they're 200 feet away in the building.
I don't know. I just can't see that being a good spot for pickle ball courts. Um, you know, given that you want to create this relaxing patio. Um, why was that determined that it would be a good idea to put pickle ball courts there? So, Councilwoman, the uh the
location was selected a while back in 2022, obviously from the uh the uh the bond ordinance that we had um from our director Kio and members of the public and and from the mayor's office. We have had a request for pickle ball um from a
lot of our residents. What unfortunately is happening in some of our parks, we have tennis courts and that people are trying to use as pickle ball courts. Um is my understanding from the director and others that that there's actually people who get into altercations. This is a tennis court now. We're using it
for pickle ball. They're actually uh damaging our nets to make it the the pickle ball height. I don't play either one of them, so I can't tell you. I am not an expert on either one of these, but this is what I'm being told. We have to we have to repair our our courts, the nets just to accommodate. And so, based
on the demand uh from from what we've received through the our director and from the mayor's office, we're looking to try and um get a location for people to play pickle ball while the people who play tennis can also enjoy at the same time. And this was the location that was
selected in 2022 along with this whole project here. And that's nice to have, but given our debt, the amount of debt we have right now, perhaps this isn't the time to put pickle ball courts into a project.
Well, and again, that was that was um um in the 2022 uh capital project. We are not so we're clear on this, we are not asking for any additional funding for this pickle ball court tonight. The money that's being presented to you with these bonds is
merely for the construction of the exterior of this of this property here and and the pickle ball court is being included with it at this time. I just as a demonstration on the project, right? I just think given the amount of debt we have and given the fact that we haven't
really done gotten to the budget and the capital budget that it we need to be a little more prudent and look at these kinds of things after we've done the the budget, particularly the capital budget. Councilwoman, thank you for your input.
Just just to be clear to everyone, we want to try to take care take advantage of Miss Carbalo being here uh because this ordinance is going to come up for potential discussion later on in the meeting uh where we're going to have to
uh discuss and and make some decisions. Uh Councilwoman, do you have any other questions, comments? No, that's it. Thank you very much. Great. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. Go ahead. Okay. Um, thanks for coming here tonight. Um,
it's a little hard to hear this presentation because I remember the days when we were told that we were getting a new library at no cost to the township and now we have had 18 order changes, millions of dollars spent. And I find it
almost incredulous to to believe that all of these changes were done without taking it first to the planning board, which should have had an in impact uh an input on the overall design. Maybe if we had the planning board review this, we
wouldn't have gone through 18 change orders and millions of dollars of taxpayer money. Um, I'd like to know, um, first of all, and I'm kind of not joking about this, um, are you planning on adding in some extra money to drown
out the sounds for for windows to drown out the sounds of the pickle ball courts that will be basically on the property. I can hear the library is lovely. I've been there many times. I love libraries. I love books. I can hear the traffic
when I'm there. And I'm sure that you will be able to hear the sounds of the pickle ball courts from the library as well. Um, I'd like to know if this plan at all is going to the planning board and if not, why not? First of
all, planning board or land use applications are actually if you're changing anything on the site or if you're changing the use, it is not the case. We're not changing anything in terms of the uh what is already there in terms of the perimeter of the parking lot. The parking lot that is there, all we're
we're doing is basically taking out the existing curve around the entire perimeter of this parking lot. We're going to come all the way around it. The contractor is going to take the entire uh curb around this perimeter and the same thing around this building and it's
just going to replace it with 2 feet of pavement to put it in. Then we're going to do the conduit for the uh lighting mill and pave it and do the uh ex remove the existing lights that were there and replace them
with new fixtures, LED fixtures. when this library first came up as a proposal to West Orange, I remember the the show that was put on to us by the former mayor and I just would like to know whether or not given that it's so
critical that there be ADA compliance, why ADA compliance was not part of the plan to begin with. I also remember that there was no discussion about phase one or phase two. this seems like it's being added on and now described as phase one
or phase two when in fact it was, you know, we were getting a free library. It was going to be an upgrade and this was not going to cost the taxpayers. Now we're looking at that this has now cost the taxpayers $8 million. In addition, the pe the person who bought our old
library bought it for a million dollars with no no public bidding and was then the township then turned around and gave him a $500 um,000 loan. I would like to know if we can recall that or ask for that loan to be repaid right now. We
obviously need the money right now. So, why did we give a 50-year loan to the develop uh to the developer for $500,000 when we need the money for this library? Well, unfortunately, I cannot answer that question. And I got into
this project way after this was break and I was actually had to meet with New Jersey American Water Out there. I would say probably in June or July of 2022. And I was informed that neither the vault or
the location of the vault were in compliance with their requirements. And this was, I guess, a big surprise. And we have tried our best to take it from there. As far as I know, the first bit, the first phase of this project was just
for interior improvements with the exception of the patio. It was only interior. uh there were no plans or modifications or you know in the works for the exterior. As a matter of fact, I brought the exterior uh improvements to the attention of the administration at
the time because I said to myself, okay, so once the library is done inside and it looks all pretty, what happened to the outside? Cuz it looks it didn't look how I say this, it's not finished. It is is is definitely something that needed
to be done and it needs to be done and for these I would say public welfare and safety of our residents. You don't want anybody tripping. You don't want anybody falling. This exterior improvement are a necessity. I I agree it's a necessity. I'm just surprised
that it wasn't taken care of straight up when this project came before us. You said that this does not need to go to the planning board. However, when public funds are being used, it is a requirement. It is by law that the planning board has to have a courtesy
review. The um county does that every time before our um our township whenever they are using public funds. So they ask for a courtesy review and the planning board should get a courtesy review of this and may have had some effect in
terms of saving us money had there been a courtesy review from the planning board. Well, the courtesy reveal, like I said once again, I was not here. And like the word says, it is a courtesy. They don't have to do it. And if they didn't do it back then, I mean, we could do it now, but I don't know how much of
that is going to affect what we have in front of us. If this goes forward, there should be a courtesy review before the planning board so that they have a look at at this entire plan. I'd like to know how much um the cost of just doing the ADA improvements would be.
Okay, let's look at this slide. If you just want to do I would say basic but not basic meaning you just do this sidewalk and you know around the
perimeter of the building the ramps the uh existing um entrance to the building and you're going to have no choice but to mill and pave all of this up to this line that I have here. it will be roughly a million dollars. Now, the
problem that I see with that and I can't really uh how would I say this? Confirm. Do you see this islands here? These islands are all brand new. The existing islands on the parking lot are actually closer to the building.
They're going to have to be removed and we're going to have to also construct this sidewalk in here to make this um level. So, the million dollars might not be it. I might have to go probably more closer to this line over here, but this
is not realistic and I wouldn't recommend it. Okay. Wouldn't a simple fix for the library be to get the parking from the air marshals? The air marshals have parking all around the building, which is which should really
be for the residents. Um those are the areas where if you are if there is a pregnant person or a parent with a young child or a caregiver with a child or a senior those are the areas that are closest to the library that if they were
opened up and I know that it is in the contract for the air marshals but why is it in the contract for the air marshals I'm sorry I'm sorry just let her finish then that would be a simple a coste effective uh fix so that we can open up
so many more spots right away and um make it more accessible for people who are unable to climb up that hill and it would be free. Mr. Smart, did you want to respond? So, so what we're talking here, we're proposing tonight is the construction of
the parking lot, the sidewalks, the curbing, and everything else. Regardless of who parks where, we're talking about putting pavement, sidewalks, and the like. We can discuss outside this project where the
tenants or visitors park, but it still requires the pavement to be underneath, still requires the striping, still requires the sidewalk to walk for ADA compliance. It still requires everything to get into the building in order to be ADA compliant. It doesn't matter if the
air marshals park over there or over at Essex screen. And by the way, we call them the tenant because not really that we're talking about them at that way. But um but that's so who parks there is here or there. It is the matter of getting the
construction completed and and finished so that we are in compliance with ADA and and upgrading the surface. Uh, as the director mentioned, we were donated about a $360,000 um um uh partial
uh covering of a base coat, which only goes up basically to the the end of the sidewalk where the handicap is. They didn't do around the back or the side on the east side. So, all that has to be replaced no matter what. That has to be milled all the way down. We we actually have to put a base coat in there and a
finish coat. The rest of the remainder of the parking lot needs a finish coat which is a 2in uh uh thickness of of macadam or asphalt and it has to be installed because in order to be ADA compliant and I'm going
to rely on director Carbalo is that that 2 in on the Belgian block if we don't add that becomes a trip hazard under the ADA. So no matter where we no matter where we parked back to the original question, it's the the whose car is
there is irrelevant for the matter of this particular project. If we if we go and put um once we have that completed, we can always discuss who gets what stalls and who goes where. That's a that's a separate conversation. Can I ask you why the first phase of this did
not go before the planning board for a courtesy review? I cannot answer that. You were you were the project manager for them here? I was not here. I was not here. This this project started in 2018. In 2020, I came back to the town. I was running the the housing
agency. In 2022, my role started changing. I was given a set of plans and said, "Here, go build this. This is what we have for you." It was all approved. It was through the building department had received all the permits. Everything was done. I was not in charge. I did not
do the um um the actual project itself. I was not part of the development. And as the director pointed out before, and we'll discuss the change orders that you're you're bringing up, the change orders were as a result of once we got into the building. This original project, from what I was told, was an
interior project only. We had the money for the library which we were given but a lot of other projects that came out of this that we didn't realize two elevators. One had to be completely re um reinstalled. It was complet it was out of service. It's a building from
1971. Um the other one was one that had to be um upgraded. We spent $400,000 on two elevators. We had to that had nothing to do with the library project and it was not part of the grant that we received. the uh the sidewalk and
everything else around the outside. Oh, the gas lines. The gas lines which are for a generator, which we still have to install. That's not part of this project. We had to install a gas line. We had to, as the director pointed out, New Jersey American Water said to us, "If you do not change this water line, we will not give you water to this
building. We're going to shut you off." They they hel they had us held up as hostage. We had to do that. We had to install because it was a new occupancy and I don't know why it wasn't included but we had to install sprinklers on two sets of the building because the the
second floor tenants fire alarm system had to be tied in with the new existing fire alarm system. We had to replace the second floor fire system so that they could communicate together. You can't have more than under New Jersey fire code which was changed in whatever was changed in 2020 or 2017 whatever it was.
You can't have two separate communicators. you had to have one communicator. So we had to these were all the change orders. These were not things that were included in the original project or the original grant and it was just these were as a result. Plus also as we found there was it was a building from 1971. There was broken
broken infrastructure inside the building that we didn't know we we were not aware of. We until our contractors opened up and said uhoh we got a problem here. Isn't it surprising that we signed on to a new building that had this many problems and that it wasn't that we we
agreed to to use this and really didn't do a a due diligence in terms of a full inspection? Anybody who was buying property or getting property would normally do a full inspection. Councilwoman, I can't answer that because that was that building was purchased from the time I retired in
2017 till the time I came back. I I have no knowledge of it. I can't answer that. Also, a lot of the things that like for example when they had a water leak, all those things are behind walls. You would have not been able to discover them or even see them until some of those walls are actually demolished or removed when
they were trying to do the renovations. Once again, we were not involved from the beginning of this project. And a lot of interior renovations, whether it's uh private or public, you don't need to go to the land use board for that. you could just go to the building department and apply for a
permit if you submit your plans which is exactly what we did. We actually submitted all the plans to the building department. It was submitted and it was all review by them for permits through architects and and it was administered through the UCCC code. I still stand by that this project
should be heard by the planning board for for a review. That's your opinion. Anything else, Councilwoman? No. Okay. Councilwoman. Sure. Thank you, Council President. So, I was there when
this project went went uh into effect and did wholeheartedly support it uh for various reasons. Uh we have a lot of new faces in the audience tonight may or may not have remembered why we were faced with this project. We started the
evening uh with the the folks from Daughters of Israel basically telling us our hands are tied, affordable housing is coming, we have to comply and we have to do XYZ. Well, there you go. In 2018, we were faced with that again. Uh in the
uh executive drive um transaction uh we received 65 affordable housing units which is now Stone Hill. The tradeoff was for the develop to build Stone Hill. We received
10 Rooney for a dollar purchase which obviously an old building you always get nervous. Um Mr. Leapor was there then due diligence was done. I don't remember the reports that the council was given, but obviously there were surprises that
we were not made aware of. But the biggest problem was with doing that that transaction is there was $4 million in tax appeals that the township was going to have to pay out to the owners of Executive Drive. That's the piece that everyone always forgets. That was a
challenge. That $4 million went away when the transaction went into effect. We received $1.5 million from the developer to renovate. Um we received a million dollars from the developer uh
the outpour group from across um from across the way. We also which at the time and my mistake which I regret now is we thought we were rece we did receive 65 affordable units across the
way and as we know now only about 30% of our residents uh received apartments there and that's the for me the most disappointing part about the transaction um one that I will not make that mistake again so I apologize to our residents who I thought that number would be
higher in the 80% uh range uh airgo some of my previous votes that I've made on affordable housing lately. Uh all that being said and done, um you know, the prior mayor um I know he worked with Mr. Leapour and the library
board on the design and uh what was going to be renovated. Uh Mr. Cuby knows I'm not happy that they don't utilize the downstairs doorway on the lower patio. I believe that should be utilized for uh folks to walk in, especially moms
or grandmas with strollers trying to get up that hill uh to bring their kids to uh story time. Uh because it is easy access if you come in that door and uh go right up to the uh elevator that will take you up to the uh the room for the
children's section. Library came out beautifully. um March Minion, the the boards, everyone on there, uh Dave QB, they did a beautiful job, but you know, we own the building now. We could talk about the politics, we could talk about the history, but now we we own it. We
bought it and it's ours. We have to get it done. It is not done. Um so my recommendation is going to be that we you got to get comfortable. Obviously, I don't think we're going to have the votes tonight for it. Uh, but we we need
to figure out how to get this project done. Uh, pickle ball courts are in demand. I'm not sure if your phones rang off the hooks the past couple years, but our residents pay a lot of taxes to live in this in this township and they want pickle ball courts and that
unfortunately is is where the spot was picked. Uh, and it makes most sense. Um, and it's already um the money's over already there. Now, we could say we could pay that down and pay something off and move money around. I'll I'll leave that to the director, but at the
end of the day, um, we need to get comfortable and get something done. My question with this, it's a lovely plan and and again, a perfect world. I would love to prove it in its entirety and we'll have later discussions on that and when we have budget talks, I do think we
have to have a budget discussion to see what we can and cannot do. Um, so as far as logistics of this plan, one, there aren't any grants available for the charging stations in today's world. We could apply for some grants,
but we're still going to have to come up with the money for the conduit and stuff. Okay? Like I could definitely once we have a final plan and we're already more or less finalized this, then yes, we could apply for some grants, but I cannot guarantee that we're going to get any of those grants.
Okay? And I love all the landscaping. The one thing that, you know, I I what I love about the county and their buildings, they built beautiful buildings and they have beautiful landscaping and every time I go up to our site, I I it really bothers me that it doesn't look pristine. Um, but
landscaping, you want to put a lot of landscaping there, I don't hear sprinkler systems anywhere. So, is that part of the plan in any case? How how are we going to water and make sure all this landscaping doesn't die? Because it's hot up there. I was up there in uh July and it it's hot. the sun. It's in
the sun all day and that landscaping will dry up and whittle away if we don't take care of it. So, if we're going to spend money on it, we need to take care of it and a sprinkler system should be included. Um, so again, you have to answer that tonight, but that's my other
recommendation. Also, we own um we have an empty vacant office space there. I know the mayor uh uh brought us a tenant, a temporary tenant last meeting. Thank you, mayor. Um but again like have we crunched numbers is what reality of
fixing that space up that we can utilize that space for rent that could pay down this bond for us. So again have those numbers been looked at? Have we crunched them? Like like let's help ourselves here. We have a building we have to to
take care of take care of. We have to get it together up there. Um we also need to not go broke paying for it. So, are we able to draw some rental? And and we do get from our current tenant almost $1.2 million a year uh for the third
floor rental. So, it makes sense to um utilize this space in the lower level and um and to, you know, gain more income on that so we can get these renovations done and it won't hurt so
badly. So again, that's those are my comments. Don't know if this will be ready tonight. Um but I like to get there in some way and I hope my colleagues can really really really try to get there as well. Thank you, council
president. So I got this from our CFO um the bone ordinance that it could be paid in 10 years. Um he came up with $1842 the average home cost per year and approximately
$184.16 the total cost for 10 years per home. That's correct. That's based on the the current average assessment and our current NVT and all that. Wait, that that's for what? Um, director for for what it's going to cost taxpayer
to do this cost payer cost per year for the average home is $1842. And then in a period of 10 years, the total cost in the average home would just be that number times 10, which is 184 $184.16 or 20. I appreciate that, but
I'm looking for from Mr. Dutiniac and he could crunch those numbers. Is the what the rental space would be for for if we rent that uh where we just rented out the temporary space. Obviously I I mean I was looking at commercial space numbers of $25 a square foot. So I mean
obviously we have to do a little work in there but um I don't know what that would do for us to put money towards this. So it and I'll defer to to to interim administrator. You know that space may
be used for our own personnel. Am I incorrect in in stating that? So we got to keep that in mind. Um you know so so just to piggyback off that we're we're currently in the final stages of a feasibility study of all our
vacant spaces or all our occupied spaces. Um, we've met with one of our vendors, uh, the director and I and a couple others. Um, and we we've designed we we've come up with a a plan to utilize our space. Um, we intend to
present that to the council. More than likely, it will be the June meeting because uh, next next month, I think next meeting will be packed. Um, and it should be completed by then. We just met with uh, Mr. Lane last week and I think we only have a few tweaks and it's completed. So, we want to we we want to
present it to the council and he and Mr. Lane knows that and he will be here. We're probably going to schedule him for the June 24th meeting. So, you can see the whole feasibility study that includes town hall, township, the town hall, the the u former library space across the way. Um it includes um 10
circle 10 Rooney Circle and and also with um taking in account DPW. Yes. So, so we have a So, we we have a we have a plan for you. It's it's finalized. It's about 95% complete and we we're looking forward to present it to you so for your
consideration for future whether we want to move forward with it or not. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Just a few few follow-ups. Mr. Smaldo, when uh Councilwoman was talking about the rent that we get from uh the tenant on the
third floor, I think she used the number uh nearly at 1.2 million. I heard you talk. I just wasn't sure. It's actually 1.3 million right now. We got an escalating we have an escalating clause with with our tenant and um it and I believe our contract runs through 2029
if I'm I'm correct. Um and we do have an escalating cause clause in the and so this year went up to $1.3 million. Okay. Thank you. Uh Mr. Carvalo, I I hear what you're saying about the noise from the
pickle ball courts. I am a not frequent enough walker at Verona Park and I don't know if you're familiar with that but they have a walking path across the the entire lake. Uh when I'm on the other side of the lake uh closest to Pleasant
Valley Way and the pickle ball courts are across the water and across the drive, I can hear them pretty clearly. So, I I would uh just request that that maybe we do something to make sure
before we do this, if if the council does approve the pickle ball courts, that that that is not going to be a a uh an issue uh on the outdoor patio. Um, I also wanted to ask you about if
the council decides not to do the pickle ball courts now and we put that off. What would be uh the savings in the cost and thus the borrowing that we would have to do now? I know you you had
your still up there. Okay. All right. So, the second option would have been what I call the bare minimum. if the pickable courts are in place. And that would be um $1 and a half million dollars more or less if we decide to do it up to this
line right here. Provided that the pickable courts go in place later on or they don't. At least this will at least provide an aisle for, you know, the two-way parking and, you know, to maneuver around the parking lot.
I definitely think even if you are not to do the pickable course and let's say you want to make this parking which is what it is today, you're still going to have to uh provide the surface course and also some lighting and as well you're definitely going to have to probably
have uh maybe this walkway in here is still to provide some I guess access for the vehicles that park at the uh closer to the executive dry entrance. Okay. I mean, no matter what, at the end
of the day, you will still need to do the entire project, whether you want to phase it out or not. I will tell you what the I would say cost effective will be go out to
bid, put it all out at once. You save not only having to redo plans because you're going to have to do plans and pay for professional services no matter what. another set of plans and rebid it. Also, each time that you put a contract out, you're gonna have to pay now the
contractor for coming out again, you're going to start to play to pay again for demol demolition and I'm sorry, mobilization and demobilization. You're going to have to start paying them also for site clearing as well. Instead of paying it once, you're going to pay it maybe twice if you decide to do just the
one half and then the rest of it later. The other problem that you will approach is that, okay, if you decide that you don't want to do the other half of a million dollars, when are we going to do it? Or is it just going to sit on the back burner and never get done? And that
parking area by Executive Drive will just continue to deteriorate, right? And at the end of the day, people are going to be wanting to use it to park and we're going to be liable for it if anybody falls or hurt themselves.
And another thing to keep in mind when you put a contract out, the larger the quantities on pavement curb, the cheaper or the lower it is the unit price because you got more quantities. Sure.
So you could do more. You might be able to do more with less. The bits might come in less than 2 million if we're lucky. We don't know. I don't I don't have a crystal ball to tell you what the economy is going to be down the road in the next six months, but we might get lucky and it might
commit maybe 1.6 or 1.5. Who knows? And we might be able to do the entire project. It had happened. When they put out to bid the uh first phase, they did it in they did an alternate. And that alternate is basically saying you don't have to award it if you don't have
enough money for it. Yeah, I I'm um I want to just be clear on this line that you have that goes through the pickle ball courts. Yes. In your presentation, you said somewhere between $500 and $700,000. Does that include all of the
work that you're proposing uh on this this part of the drive for the chargers and around the uh entrance and exit uh to You're talking about this line right here? Yeah, I'm talking about everything from where you Yeah. That doesn't include the charges over here or any of
the electrical conduit that will need to be done. That's why it will cost you at least another half of a million dollars. Okay. That's what I'm trying to find out. If we just decide that we want, as you uh I won't say you recommended, but you mentioned that somewhere down the
line we want to do this. And we stopped it there. How much would we cut off of the proposed estimate? Now, I was trying to get a feel for whether that's $500,000 or or $700,000 cuz that's about it could be between5 to
$700. It depends. I could tell you that it would be just $500,000 and then let's say you approve an ordinance of 2 million. I don't know what the number is going to come in from the contractors. Right. Right. Understand. Uh I have another question about the curbing. You said basically we
have to replace all of this curbing uh on the property. Yes. what would be and you also suggested or uh are recommending uh Belgian block. I'm just wondering what the difference is between Belgian block and
uh regular concrete in terms of not only the installation cost but also the maintenance cost. So most of the township if you notice a lot of the roadways are organ granite block curb. Okay, the parking lot right now the way it is is all granite block curve as well. That's the reason why I was
proposing to just replace it with grounded block curb and pretty much just you know come come two feet from it and suck out that area and replace it. The the cost versus concrete curve and granite block curve is almost the same.
Uh yes, when I do the roads, they still charge me $40 per laner foot sometimes for both of them. There is no I would say maybe 10 or 15 or even like 20 years ago um there was a difference. There was
like a $5 or $10 per linear foot. But right now because of the price of concrete is so much it's basically the same 404 to $45 per linear foot. There's really not savings. Plus the granite lasts longer than the
concrete. Yeah, the the the concrete curb could only like could only be put on the um how to say this all the curb ramps for ADA accessibility. And would you be proposing to reuse the Belgian block where where it was still
in good shape or you just throw everything off? that all new that granite block curb is shot is done is some of them like are not even they're not they're let's put it this way when you build curb you need to have at least
18 in below of what you see on the pavement that it actually sets in there for your footing right now the grounded block curve that you have is literally if it has an inch below that the pavement that you see is a
And some of it is missing, too. I mean, it's it's deteriorated. I Yeah, go ahead and ask. I've got one more question, but please go ahead. But now I've forgotten, so now I'm good to go. Okay. One other question. So, I'm
just thinking the the most pressing thing to me is that the ADA compliance if we were able to take the parking spaces that are right across the street from the entrance, label them as handicap and or
um whatever whatever else was needed for um people who who are in need of having closer access. and then and then fix the stairs and the entrance going in right there. Would that solve the problem right now? No, that will not solve the problem because in order for you to have
an ADA compliant parking space or accessibility, the parking space cannot be more than 2% in either direction. the parking spaces right here. Yes, this are steep. And to come in here, over here is the only area that you could
actually have ADA uh compliant um handicap spaces, which is why we are proposing seven handicap spaces on this side of the building. And then the access route for them right here with a cross I mean a
sidewalk to the main entrance. So why can't they be handicap accessible at this point? Why aren't why aren't those spaces right now marked as ADA? Some of them are shown as ADA, but because of the condition of the existing
pavement, the the deterioration of the grounded block curve and grounded block curve cannot be used for anything that is ADA accessible. It has to be concrete. So in that way it could be flush in elevation with the pavement. So, what would the cost be to do just
that area? This area right here? No, just the area from the handicapped spaces into the library. I'm not following you. You want just this front door. If you're going to do that, might as
well just do the entire uh pavement in here because the pavement on this side of the uh of the parking lot is deteriorated and uneven because this is the area that we didn't have enough pavement to do it. Let me
Yes. Yes, please go ahead. Uh, council woman. So, so coun councilwoman to to your point I I appreciate what you're trying to do to break it down even smaller the project but if you're listening to what she's been saying and from years past for um it it's going to
cost longer eventually the work has to get done. So when they come the m the larger the space they cover now the better savings that we have at this point in time. they come back and you peacemail it, it's going to cost you more in
2018. Actually, this I think this project started 2017. And the reason why you saw change orders also, which I neglected to to mention because I did sit in some of the the one or two meetings with with the board and when Mr. Samaldo first came on and Mr.
Moralda, if you recall, a lot some of the change orders were forced because there was supply chain issu uh issue increases and that aid into the original budget because you know all the work was being done during COVID during the pandemic.
So again, you wait on some and it it's the project's going to cost more. You really got to get yourself comfortable. We have to look at the numbers and we we got to get this work done. I I really recommend
we get the exterior work done as much as possible as much as you know we could afford to do it and and if you need to wait and go over the numbers with the budget next week. I have no problem with that. But again, this is
our responsibility. Um you know, it's a shame because that project was delayed. It was supposed to get done sooner. We had a lawsuit that slowed everything down and airgo another issue that we had a another challenge for the project. Um
but we also did the project as well because don't forget the state had offered the grant 40 cents on a dollar that uh the library received to get this project done. So you know Maplewood spent $22 million on the library that
still doesn't have all parking there. Um, we didn't even we did very well, I think, for the overall project. So, thank you. So, are there any other questions? No, but I'd just like to make
to make one comment. Um, and I'm just going to refer you to um there is a statute that um I'm going to read it off to you. um statute
4055D-31 which does regulate that any type of um uh land use um should land use issue that is spending public money should go before the planning board. So you had said that that's my opinion. It's not my opinion. It's the law. Uh
Councilwoman, could you just circulate that to the council and also to uh uh Mr. Mr. Maldo and M Carbalo, please. Excuse me, council president. I don't have an issue with I don't see what why there's an issue to show this plan to
the planning board at this point if it makes the council feel comfortable. I mean, like I said, the ultimate goal is to get this project done and and if it makes councilwoman feel comfortable, I don't see why we don't do that. It's not just a matter of me feeling comfortable.
It's a matter of following the law. Okay, we don't have to further debate this. it's whether we'll all see whether it's law and we'll we'll move forward from there. And council president, if I could just add to it, one of the things I do want to clarify, um, Councilwoman Castle reminded me with with the supply
chain issue. This project was actually, my understanding was supposed to start either 2020 or 2021 due to the COVID outbreak and and um delays and then and a few other things uh lawsuits and all that. Um, this that's why this project was delayed also was supposed to be
started sooner. I also want to bring up the fact that we we we've discussed this offline. We did get um an inquiry from the US Department of Education. So to the counciloman's uh concern about legis possibly doing a little less part of the
compliance would be actually around the building and all the access. So I and I think that's why Director Carbalo actually put that in there because what she's shown in the that section that she's labeled as unrealistic that would be something that would be more than likely satisfactory. But I can't say for
certain as I spoke to you I reached out to US Department of Education um the person who um who sent us the original letter last year. I have not heard back from her after multiple um emails and the other people that were on there. I pretty much got a Doge letter that
they're no longer with the US government and they they're on another assignment. So, um we're trying to get in touch with the the Department of Education to see to make sure that we are in compliance um and with our project and so that this way we you know because this was asked
asked of me two meetings ago and I have been reaching out but just right now I've had no success with the with the government. Great. Uh uh thank you Miss Garvalo if you want to sit down. And I don't think there's any more questions. So, thanks everybody. I just want to try to try to we you've heard bits and pieces of the
background and and factors that the council is considering. I'm going to try in less than 5 minutes to try to explain to you and give context to why we seem to be wrestling uh with this. We originally got this building and it was supposed to be free as part of a much
larger project that turned into the Stonehill. And uh uh and it's far it's been far from free obviously and uh in terms of the cost the first the phase one the f phase one project I just got this from the from the CFO the phase one
project to fix up primarily the interior of the building for the library was $6.5 million. So, of that, almost 3.1 million of that was a grant from the state which cut our cost, the township's cost, your
cost, uh, down to just slightly over $3.4 million. So, uh, contrasting that now with our present situation as opposed to looking back where we can't do anything about it, but right now we have a serious debt
problem in our township. We have uh uh again I'm just getting these most recent numbers. We have out we had outstanding debt of 1 point I'm sorry 166 and a half million dollars before we started this
borrowing for uh some of the uh uh reconstruction of of uh certain areas in the town the the roads and uh some other stuff that's coming up today. uh once if we borrow all of this money that we have, it's roughly uh pending almost
$9.4 million, we will owe $175 million. Now, that is two or three times the total debt of the municipalities around us. And not only that, but our debt service, we have borrowed a lot of this money at some of
the peak interest rates any of us have seen. So last year 12 almost 12% of our budget went to debt service and a lot of that was just interest. We didn't actually reduce the principal. So what the council the the current council has
done is said we need to get a debt management plan and we are uh trying to get that forward. If uh uh Mr. Diniac had was going to blow us away with a innovative program to to really cut down
this debt, he got ill. We had to postpone our workshop uh from last week, but we're going to get back on it. But what we have said is that we want to get a debt management plan in place to know where we are going and to get this down as quickly as as practicable so that we
can stop not spending 12% on, you know, police, uh employees, whatever else we would like to spend it on. We're not spending on that. We're spending it on the borrowing. So, we want to be sure that we have a handle on this debt that it doesn't keep coming up. So, we're we're trying to put off our
discretionary borrowing until we can get this debt management plan in place. And uh that means a whole series of difficult situations because obviously all of these projects are needed and they're certainly needed by certain portions if not everyone in the
community. But we also have to be cognizant that we we've got to manage our finances so that we're uh you know providing the best value for your tax dollar and try not to be increasing uh your your property taxes. The mayor has
uh uh given us a a budget that basically uh proposes to increase our property taxes just in West Orange by 6.2%. And we're just starting to work on the budget now. So hopefully we can uh find some efficiencies there. But that's that's where uh we're we're sitting
right now. And as uh Mr. Smaldo said, this whole issue with ADA compliance for 10 Rooney Circle started early last year when we got uh a letter from the Department of Education saying, "We've got a complaint for ADA uh
non-compliance. What are you going to do about it?" And so they've been working for clearly uh close to a year and now it looks like maybe everybody that was involved with this has been doed. So we can't even find anybody to make
sure that what we're planning to do to make certain is going to fulfill whatever the Department of Education wants us to do. So we're we're juggling a lot of balls here and uh I appreciate your your patience. We're going to try
to move on now. Um but uh thank you for uh for everybody's uh contribution here. Madame clerk, please. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the open
public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger in the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman
Castelino, present. Councilwoman Gberel. Yeah. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, present. Thank you. Council President Koviaak, present. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance?
algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The council is now in their public meeting.
And tonight, I'm going to do the right thing and not move to public comment, but move to Mr. Fagan. So, please, Mr. Fagan, take it away. Thank you, Council President. Uh, welcome uh all your council colleagues. Hi, I'm in a council
meeting. I can't talk right now. I'm on Zoom. Is it anything urgent? Can I call you back? Councilwoman. Councilwoman Scarpa. Okay. Thank you for letting us know. You just got a phone call, but perhaps if you need to take it in the future, you could just hit mute, please.
I just want to point out, council president, early on the meeting, we had a few issues with the microphones and uh I understand and appreciate those concerns, but I just want to remind the Zoom public that I unfortunately have no control over that and do the best I can
as Zoom moderator to uh correct that situation. Uh tonight, I want to start with um West Orange salute seniors. May is Older Americans Month and uh Aging Well, West Orange is uh is a great
program sponsored by our uh Department of Senior Services. They do a great job. They always have great programs, but this month they're highlighting the fact that May is Older Americans Month. Uh once again, I'd like to remind everyone that this year's annual Memorial Day
ceremony, we will be commemorating the end of the Vietnam War, which was 50 years ago. And uh it will be Monday, May 26, 11 o'clock a.m. West Orange Town Hall. We've already um uh reached out to several uh West Orange Vietnam veterans.
Thank you, Councilwoman Ruden, for your effort in reaching one of them. Um so the the ceremony will be the May 26th and um if anyone uh we have an open invitation to seeking West uh Vietnam veterans, uh have them email me. Uh we
will have the outdoor ceremony and following the outdoor ceremony, we will have a brief indoor ceremony here in council chambers um uh highlighting the uh 2017 Vietnam uh traveling war visiting West Orange and uh interviews I
had conduct with combat veterans at that point. Um, I want to take a moment to recognize uh, madame clerk as municipal clerk clerk's week uh, township of West Orange. She has a thankless job, but we
are thankful for her. Um, also on west.org, or there's important updates and information from the New Jersey Department of Health uh with measles outbreak in West Orange. I'm I'm sorry, not West Orange uh in in the country. Um
there are no reported cases in West Orange and I'm sorry I said that. That was uh I misspoke. Uh there is an uh West Orange Township Council budget workshop coming up on May 14th uh at 6 p.m. here in council chambers. Um, we
devoted a lot of time to 10 rooney circle tonight and I just want to give you a positive report is I worked with Boy Scout uh troop 2 in West Orange and uh Luke Deello his Eagle Scout project was raising funds for a display case in
the lobby and here you can see the scouts uh they were cataloging um a lot of West Orange artifacts I have uh that I put in that display case and I will be maintaining uh artifacts in for West Orange history. Uh I think most notable
in that case is the purple heart of William Rooney who was a West Orange police officer killed in November 1944 and he certainly is the namesake of Rooney Circle. And uh uh this display case is uh made possible by a very
generous comp uh contribution from the Chelsea Senior Living um and Friends of the West Orange Public Library also uh helped out and uh a shout out to the downtown West Orange Alliance for helping facilitate the purchasing and delivery. So uh if you have an
opportunity to visit Tenu Circle, you can enjoy uh uh West Orange history on display. And as I said, I will be uh cycling uh artifacts in and out there. And there's probably another display case coming soon. Um we also have uh
adoption day, pet adoption day, first and third Saturday of the month. Um uh it's best to call uh the West Orange Health Department or email them just to confirm uh that it will be taking place because sometimes there is a volunteer shortage. Uh so you can check with the
health department to make sure that that's happening. Also, you may have heard that the West Star Street Fair is Saturday, June 7th. Uh, and that's approaching uh very quickly. You can find out more information about that at downtown
um West Orange.com. The downtown West Orange Alliance. Uh we have a couple of road work main street. I know this is a terrible inconvenience, but this information is on our website and it is happening overnight uh from May 5th to
May 10th. And um I I don't want to read through all this, but I just want to bring to your attention that this is on our website. Uh it is overnight and also going to be on Mount Pleasant Avenue. And again, this information is on our website. I don't want to bore you with
with all the details, but you should check it out. Um, there's hydrant flushing notice. Uh, New Jersey American Water is flushing fire hydrants. The details are at west.org. Uh, and it's important to really check this out because after the
the hydrant flushing, you may notice some discolored water as a result of the hydrant flushing. Not to be concerned. So, uh, the the the, uh, information on the website has some important information uh, regarding that and some dos and don'ts. Uh, Mayor McCartney's
next open office hours are June 5th. Um, we're a long way from June. This will be announced at the next council meeting in May. And of course, um, Council Connection, uh, open office hours scheduled for Thursday, May 29th. Uh, couple of quick announcements.
Uh uh UNICO is uh West Orange chapter Unico is having a um uh a uh an event in West Cwell uh on various states and walk to fight Alzheimer's the South Mountain Reservation of course that's a worthy
cause and this information I believe is on our social media. Um there's also west.org a compliance advisory for properties with septic systems. Now, there aren't many properties in West Orange that have septic systems. Uh, but
if your home does have a septic a septic system, you might want to check the compliance requirements on our website. Uh, also on our website, uh, wildfires have been in the, uh, news lately, more than we need to hear about.
Uh, but there are some helpful tips how to deal with air quality during, um, uh, as a result of these wildfires. Uh Junth uh save the dates. Uh that's fast approaching. Uh this you can contact
Junth Film Festival Westtorgmail.com. Uh right now the locations will still be announced and certainly we'll have further announcements coming on this but you should save the date June 20th to June 22nd. Um
uh Mr. Pissy is not here tonight. Uh but Saturday, May 17th, the uh Essis County Recycling Day computer and electronics. This will be posted on our social media on Monday. Uh this is certainly helpful to our West Orange residents. And uh
finally, uh May 7th is the Real ID deadline. Now, I know a lot of people have been stressing out about this, but I just want to clear up a few misconceptions. It is not a national ID. And uh if you don't have a real ID, you
can still drive your car and you can use your valid passport uh anywhere uh that you go that we would would require a real ID. Now uh one American business icon uh has uh taken into consideration
the fact that people are stressing out over this. So, tomorrow I understand Crispy Cream Donuts will be giving away one free doughnut and no real ID is required. Now, I always get the notices on the free doughnut giveaway, so I know
that this is valid. So, uh, Council President, uh, that concludes my report tonight. I have the information up here for, uh, Mr. Palooi. As I say, he is not in the audience tonight. Uh, but you can reach out to him uh with any um uh
anything concerning uh county announcements. Uh and as I say, that concludes my report. Thank you for your indulgence. Uh Crispy Cream, you know, I knew someone was going to ask that question, Councilwoman Ruden. Uh there is not a Crispy Cream in West Orange.
However, I did notice at McDonald's, that's another thing I take notice to is McDonald's, that they had a crispy cream donut sign there. So, it might be given away at McDonald's. So, I hope that answers your question. Okay.
Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Uh, now is time finally for public comment. uh just want to ask that uh you we all get on the same page of for public comment. So once you are
recognized by the chair, you can speak for up to five minutes. Please be concise to speed up the process. Don't feel obligated to use all five minutes. You don't have to repeat yourself. Everybody can hear you fine. I will note when questions are posed uh and
determine if anyone here up on the day can answer uh either now or at the next meeting. Folks, folks, folks, if you want to talk, it's fine. Just please go outside. We have the people who don't
want to talk inside so they can hear what's going on here. And everybody else who wants to talk, you can go outside. I'm I'm fine with that. Okay? But you can't be talking in here. Please hold on a sec. Yes.
[Music] Uh okay. If I could uh we have an executive session today uh tonight uh that we it's on the agenda.
We have to approve it and then go into executive session. For those of you who don't know, we have a state law called the Open Public Meetings Act and it requires everything to happen with your government in public except there are some exceptions to that. And one of them
is uh we need to talk about uh the litigation between the mayor and the council. We have our lawyer here tonight. I don't see him right now. Mr. Monaco, are you still here? Oh, maybe we've already lost him. No, he's here. He is here.
He's in the hallway. Oh, he's talking. He's one of those people I sent outside. Okay. Well, so I'm sorry. I I need to find out from Mr. Monaco whether he can stick around until after public comment because it looks like we're going to be here a while. And uh what we're what
we're thinking is it's going to be a quick meeting. We're hoping that it's going to be a quick meeting. So, if we could get Mr. Monaco uh I just want to throw this out to the four council people, actually the three from me, what uh uh what you would like to do. Does
does everybody want to try to have the executive session now? I I put off the public comment because really I don't think it's going to be more than 10 or 15 minutes. I I know. But these folks have been waiting. They have been waiting patiently. 7 o'clock and it's
8:35. Yes. As much as I I don't want to have to sit and pay the attorney. We may have to because I don't think it's fair to the public. I I I agree. U Councilwoman Scarpa, what do you want to do?
What did I say? I I I would love to uh not pay the attorney to sit here for another hour, but I will go with the majority. I look at it as a financial decision. Okay. So, we got uh we got two people
who want to uh uh take the short break for the executive session. Hello, Mr. Monaco. How long are you here? Oh, how long am I here? No. Yes. Long. Okay. Okay. Uh, so we got two people who, uh, two council members who want to do it
now. We've got a third, another one who who wants to put it off until public comment. I'm going to, uh, side with the with the, uh, people who want to have our executive session now because honestly, I just don't think I I just
don't Please folks, please folks, please folks, if you want to be waiting longer, everybody just keep talking, okay? This is not in order. It's not in order for you to argue from the audience.
Okay. It's not in I realize that it's it's So, do you guys want to take up a a collection? Because I think Mr. Monaco is $150 an hour. You guys want to take up a collection? See, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Everybody, please relax. Please relax.
Okay. Please relax. Mr. Monaco, you're going to be staying a lot longer. You can uh call the wife and you can buy that time share down in Florida now. Okay. So, uh I I appreciate everybody. Let's move to public comment. Let me just make sure we are all on the same
page. All right. Our ordinance, our ordinance 3-8 says public comment requires the speaker to first state their name and address. So, that's the first thing you should do. Second, there are uh under the time limits section of 3-15.2
Two requires conduct by public comment speakers who quote shall at no time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this role. End quote. Section 3-16.2 says the conduct of the public.
Quote, "Any person who shall disturb the peace of the township council, make offensive or abusive remarks, or conduct himself or herself in a boisterous manner while addressing the council shall be forth with barred from the presiding officer by the presiding officer from further audience before the council, except that if the speaker
shall submit to proper order under these rules, uh permission for him to or her to continue may be granted by the majority vote of the council." End quote. So when you when you first come up and give your name and address, please speak slowly and clearly because
we need that information for our minutes. And uh Madame Clerk is is may flagged you to repeat yourself if she can't hear you the first time. So once again, I appreciate your your uh your patience. Um, council president, can I
just say I I'd be happy to turn the air conditioning on, but the sound system, you know, if we turn it on, they say they can't hear and we keep it off, everyone's hot. Just a comment. No, I know, but we're
we're we're hot. We're trying to we're trying to accommodate you to our air conditioning system, unfortunately, is very loud. So, if we turn it on, we're afraid that members of the public would may not be able to hear us. So, so if we turn it on, you're not going to hear us. If we if we leave it off, you guys are
going to be hot. So, I apologize, but let's try a little bit longer. And if anybody faints, please let us know. Please go ahead. Good evening. My name is Terry Triggs Scales. I reside at 85 Clark Drive.
Uh so good evening to the council members, the members of the administration and President Kokoviaak. Um I wasn't going to say anything about the library, but after the presentation tonight, I just have to
say I will never be convinced that the placement and the location of that library makes sense. It it it just belies any common sense to me. Now, I didn't hear anything about any additional interior
um improvements. I was there in February. We put on the Black History Month program and the audio visual in that community room is non-existent. Uh the director is using cable, Comcast cable, like everybody
else. And it was embarrassing to watch him try to get a projection on the screen. um and using a microphone to project. So I certainly hope something's going to happen in that regard. The other thing is and you refer
to them as our tenants. They have a gym upstairs, right? So now we have a gym upstairs in the library and now we're going to have pickle ball outside. What sense does that make for a library? I mean, last I heard, libraries
were uh not only centrally located in a community, but a place where there is some quiet space. Um, so that that just confuses me. I just had to get that off my chest. I come before you as I usually do
about the traffic at Eagle Rock and Prospect Avenue, that intersection. Um, I don't know, maybe this is my fifth or sixth time addressing the council and it's getting worse. It is absolutely getting worse. Um, you can sit waiting
to make that left turn onto Eagle Rock thinking you're in traffic to make the left turn, but you're not. You're waiting for people to make that turn into CVS and somebody's going to have an accident. I say that to you year after year after year. And when you do a
traffic study, if CVS does a traffic study or if Target does a traffic study, is it not going to be in their best interest to say everything is fine? The town needs to do a traffic study. The county needs to do a traffic
study. It's crazy at that intersection. I'm there every day, multiple times a day. The third thing I wanted to say was Mr. Kokoviac, I heard your comment at the last council
meeting. I heard your comment tonight. I'm disturbed. I'm concerned. And I and I just want to say that just because someone is in a leadership position, it doesn't make them a
leader. Leaders give respect. Leaders earn respect and leaders earn trust. And it may be um that some leadership training is in order. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we try not to
allow clapping. That's considered boisterous. If you want to clap, again, go outside. I'm I'm I'm fine with uh you approving whatever somebody said, but it does slow down the process. So, please keep the applause uh to yourself. Thank
you. Please go ahead. Good evening. My name is Emily Peas and I live at 8 Harvard Terrace. I'm here tonight to speak on behalf of my Greg Gregory neighbors who, as you have heard from us before, are deeply concerned about the traffic safety near Gregory School and the surrounding streets. I strongly urge
you to vote yes on the two important safety ordinances on the town agenda tonight. First, the resolution 132-25, which would add a crosswalk and flashing signage at Gregory Avenue and Orange Heights. My husband and I first requested this crosswalk nearly a year
ago in May 2024. We have two young children at Gregory and like many families, we see have seen firsthand how dangerous it is for students and families to cross at this busy unmarked intersection. Yes, there's a crossing guard at Walker and Gregory, but many students and families naturally take the closest
route, which leads them to this intersection. It's an obvious crossing point, and honestly, most neighbors I speak with are shocked that this hasn't been addressed sooner. We've taken every step as asked of us. We've coordinated with the town and county engineers. We've gathered over 600 petition
signatures. We've shared our efforts at block parties and community groups online. We've also knocked on the doors of every single neighbor who lives in that surrounding intersection to confirm there is broad support. While we have hoped this cross hoped that the crosswalk would be on the north side to connect to the existing crosswalk and
prevent the need for students to cross two streets to get across Gregory, we understand from the engineer that the southside placement is addressing a a driveway clearance concern. So either way, I want to be clear, we'll take it. This crosswalk is long overdue and we need it now. I recently emailed many of
you a story when I saw a student cross there um after school dismissal with her backpack, her instrument, and her phone in hand head down as she was crossing this intersection. Thankfully, she was safe, but that moment could have gone very differently. Let's not wait until
it does. Please vote yes and commit to funding the $20,000 for this crosswalk if it turns out the county is not going to fund it. I know we're working that out. I would love for the county to pay for it, but it's needed either way. Second, ordinance 2922-25 to reduce the speed limits
around Gregory School during the school pickup and drop off hours. This is another vital step. We've all seen drivers fly through that area at unsafe speeds, especially during drop off and pickup. Ideally, the reduced speed should apply during all times of the day
to ensure consistency. Again, any reduction is in the right direction, but it's also really important that these changes will not be effective without more police enforcement and increased signage about the school zone. There is virtually no school zone signage around that school. You see it maybe like 5T
before you enter the school's parking lot. That's too late to notify people that it's a school zone. This process has taken so much longer than we had hoped. But I do want to acknowledge and thank the administration and council members Ruden, Castalino, and Scarpa for your direct support and engagement. So,
please continue to stand with us and let's make the street safer around our school for every child. Thank you. Hi everyone, my name is Brian Miranda. I live at 360 Valley Road. Miss Brenda Munos, I live Harrison Avenue. And I'll just speak first. I want to thank you
all for uh passing the um changes that prevented the restaurants and bars from playing outdoor music. And I I hope it's going to remain. It's really been a a a blessing to to my my life really and to be able to enjoy my backyard without people
yelling, breaking bottles, and and just having music. like I I I personally believe that uh a business shouldn't operate at the suffering of of the town town's members and if I were to run a restaurant I would never make my neighbor suffer. Um, so I ask you to
please consider I'm not sure where it stands, but to to for it to remain and if they are to apply for permits of any in any capacity to to to please take this in in mind that the people that live in the town or the people that live here every day, not just the the people
that go to the to the bar. Uh, I think maybe the bar owners are here in attendance and maybe the people that like the bar are here in attendance. I want you to take everything they say and put in the perspective that I live here and I have to listen to music every single day and they just come here and
they drink or or or whatever and they sell food. You can sell food without bothering your neighbors. And that's all I want to say. Thank you. That I think like we deserve as long-term residents.
We deserve peace. Uh nobody like everybody deserves to get home and find that peace. not that thought every single day in the back of your head. Like we get we've been fighting this for so long. We don't wish nothing bad for
anybody. You can proceed and work like everybody else does. Like sell your food, sell your drinks, but without our suffer you cannot make like succeed. But in order of that, you're going to harm the people who are around you. So, we
had one of my neighbors here who was very close to the sufferer. He could have explained better. He's a nurse. He had to go to work. He's been here for two hours. And he just wanted me to express that. He has videos. He has
proof. You all got proof of that. I don't know how many times I've been here showing up. So, it's not fair that the administration keeps pushing this back. I don't know who are they defending. Like, it's not them against us. is this is not supposed to be a fight. It's
supposed to We're all supposed to like we're neighbors. We're supposed to respect each other. This has never been a problem in our neighborhood. We all always respected each other for all these years, 15 years. We never had a problem, not even with the previous B.
So for us, for Brian and I, all the residents around, we're the ones paying the price of this. So I just ask you please keep on the ordinance and thank you Jo thank you so much for fighting for us and um Mrs. Caselino and Mrs.
Karta thank you so much for your support and I would like to say the same thing if if if you could just your name and address please. Isa Munoz and I'm also here for the same thing. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Could you just spell your first name please?
I'm sorry. is m a ysa. Thank you. Please go ahead. I'm sorry. All right. Thank you. And also for the same thing, everybody deserves peace in their home. We work long hours and we deserve to come home to rest. And I understand everybody needs
to live. But when you get your home, you just want to relax after a stressful day. You don't want to be hearing loud music in your house. We all deserve peace. That's our place to relax and not think of everything that we went through
during the day. So, it's just something that has been happening for a long time. We feel like it's something that's going to keep happening and our nightmare is going to start again. Every summer, we're going to have to deal with
everything with drunk people running. Everybody has proof of everything. We cannot lie. Like I said in the past, it's a crime to lie and we have proof of everything that we've been through and we're just one piece.
Thank you. Thank you, Miss. Hey folks, my name is David Wington, Nine Green Tree Road. It's good to see you all. It's been a while, especially Joe. Joe, good to see you. Uh before I get to my main point, I just wanted to touch on the uh library just for a second and concur with Joe about the
pickle ball. You've got people paying four $5,000 in rent in Stonehill. That would be crazy if they pickle ball thing was going to be there. Anyway, my main uh topic is going to be trees. How to beautify West Orange, keep it beautiful,
improve the beauty of West Orange with tree planting and more properly appropriate tree plant. I was out with my dog the other night walking in adjacent neighborhood and I came upon a home, one home with five new
trees. Every one of those five trees was improperly planted. Luckily, I was able to share a message with with Forester Walt Kip and we met the next day and we we kind of went into it, discussed it
well and uh he acknowledged at the end of that conversation that all those trees were improperly dealt with and the contractor would have to modify what they were doing, make a correction to make it right. So, what was happening? They had
mulch volcanoes. Too much mulch on these trees. He knew as a professional arborist. This would eventually kill the tree or make it struggle for years and years and years so it will go nowhere. And and West Orange will not receive the beauty, the
enhancements of our of our community, etc., etc. And if you drive through town or any town in our area, you see this everywhere. Think about Essex Green. Assis Green since the 22 years I've been here has never had a tree that's actually grown because they have mulch
volcanoes everywhere and they're just going to struggle and eventually die prematurely. Every corporate center we have the exact same thing. Think about all the corners where you have a commercial establishment and look for those mulch volcanoes. What it is is
just a volcano shaped on a tree base which is improper. it will suffocate the tree and they will die. So this year I've been told by the forester we're planting 500 trees which is a huge investment for the town. 250 have already been planted. So five out of
five I found just by randomness are improper. Someone says go look go up on Belgrade go over to here go over there look at those trees. Well I assume it's the same situation where they're all going to have this effect to some degree. What's going on? So here you
didn't come in last night. I'm out in the parking lot. I'm walking around because I'm a little bit early. I go over by the police station. Right between the police station, courthouse, and this building is four brand new trees. Some of the worst mulch volcanoes I've ever seen are right there. Literally
like 10 inches of mulch up the trunk of the tree. Those trees, if you don't do anything, will be dead in a year and a half. So we talk about taxpayers money. This is all going to be wasted. And it's the time opportunity. So for two, three,
four, five years, we'll be sitting with this resource that's just dying before our eyes. That's like buying a new police car and we don't check change the oil. Yeah. And a million other examples of this. It's wasted. The beauty of West
Orange is not there. And I hope we can do a better job overall throughout the town with this message. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Stephanie Leone, 11 Old Salem Road. I want to speak this evening about
behavior that I witnessed at last council meeting, specifically the misogyny and disrespect from council presidential board councilwoman Gabber Michael, as well as the glaring complicity from others on the deis.
For the benefit of the public record and for those who did not hear the exchange clearly enough to really get everything, I'll cover it quickly. Councilwoman Gavin Michael was in the middle of her sentence. She said, "And like I said, it's not going to happen between now and
June 30th. Council President interrupted." Right. You don't have to repeat. Let's Councilwoman says, "I'm going to repeat because Council President, no, you are not going to repeat. You are not. Councilwoman, I have the mic and I have the right to
speak. Council President, no. Bangs the gavl. Did you hear that? I'm cutting you off. You cannot repeat. Councilwoman, this is not a dictatorship. Council president. Council president. Banging gavvel. It absolutely is. I'm Council
President. Councilwoman, I want to say what I have to say and I will have my voice heard. Council President, banging Gavl, please stop talking. Please stop talking and wouldn't you know it repeats please stop talking over and over again
while councilwoman Gabbor Michael attempts to finish her points. The first and immediate issue here was your interruption of another council colleague who had the mic. In doing so you violated the council rules of conduct. What I can see the township municipal code
3-16.1 each member of the township council shall cooperate with the chair in preserving order and decorum and no member shall by conversation or otherwise delay or interrupt the proceedings of the council nor disturb any member while speaking or fail to
abide by the orders of the council or its president except as specifically permitted by these rules. But beyond that, your interruption and treatment of your council colleague was disrespectful and offensive. I know you believe that we here in uh in West Orange exist in a social and political vacuum. What
happens out there, all those social ills, they don't impact us here in town, here in these council chambers where you all do the real work. That perspective, the refusal to acknowledge the significance of the broader social context is why you likely can't understand how problematic, how deeply
racist, sexist it is to interrupt and yell over a black woman council colleague in a public meeting all because she dared to repeat herself. And because you are a public figure, your actions have consequences that travel far beyond whatever your intent was. Further, your comment about this council
being a dictatorship was horrific on a number of levels. It shows a complete lack of awareness of the frightening shift to fascism that's happening in this country. For surely if you had the ability to see the bigger picture, you would not be invoking such references. But more than that, it reveals a pretty
scary insight. I'm asking that you take time this evening to address this community and clear up your comments. What did you mean when you said that this council is a dictatorship? Are you the dictator? Is that how you believe the council should be run? Please clarify. Finally, I'd like to address the rest of
the council and everyone else on the deis. When my children first began their journeys in the West Orange School District, one of the first lessons they learned was what it means to be an upstander versus a bystander. For the record, an upstander is someone who steps in when they see someone being bullied or hurt. Bystander is someone
who sees another person being bullied or hurt and simply stands by. You all stood by while council president interrupted, cut off, and yelled over your council colleague while she had the mic. Not because she was being offensive or using foul language or being disrespectful in
any way, but because she repeated herself. He continued to yell over her as she asked for respect. In this entire exchange, no one here thought to support your colleague, to interrupt the disrespect, say anything at all. It's disgraceful.
Council President, I'm requesting a written and public apology to Councilwoman Gberel, one that acknowledges the specific harm that was caused by the incident and identifies strategies that will prevent this from happening again. One way may be that this council create speaking time protocols, which include rules that will
protect speakers from being interrupted. Finally, I strongly suggest that you step back from your current duties as council president, at least temporarily, until there's an understanding of and commitment to mutual respect. Thank you. Good
evening. My name is Carol Schlit, Sli TT, and I live at 10 Overlook Avenue in the Gregory section, West Orange. I've been there for almost 24 years.
I'm here to demand regulation of gas powered leaf blowers and an end to a practice that is having a detrimental impact on my health, the health of my
family, and the health of our communities. Each year, West Orange spends $500,000 in taxpayer money for gas powered blowers. Given the discussion
that we just had an hour ago regarding the money needed to improve the library, this half a million dollars could be spent much better on using it for the library, for the schools, for
the parks, or property tax relief rather than imposing it upon residents with noise and pollution. Many of the towns around us have already
moved towards a smarter, greener, and far more coste effective method like mulching and natural natural composting. We should not be forced to fund outdated practices that degrade our
environment and our quality of life. here. Gas powered blowers should be phased out because they are inefficient and they'll pollute the air as well as destroy our
health. A referendum is not the answer in this case. The idea for a referendum on this issue came from the dealer of gas powered blowers and not the residents who live here and who pay taxes here.
You have been elected to lead and we expect you, the people on this council, to protect our health, our neighborhoods, and our tax dollars without forcing us into a fight against lobbyists and special
interests. West Orange should not be clinging to a model that's both financially reckless and environmentally destructive. Other towns such as Montlair, Maplewood, South Orange, and Glenn Ridge have all trai trans
transitioned successfully to efficient methods. We can do it, too. We urge you to end this costly polluting practice. Regulate these gas powered mowers, adopt sustainable
landscaping policies, and show that you are listening to the people who live here and who pay their taxes. We need to transition to sustainable practices, and that includes electric equipment.
Your job here as a council is to serve the people of West Orange and in doing so to protect the health of its residents and the peace and prosperity of this town. We are asking you please do your job.
Thank you. Thank you. My name is Susan Work. I have the power of attorney for my father, Joseph Work, who lives at 1155 Pleasant Valley Way at Daughters of Israel. He is a West Orange resident. Um, we came to
Daughters of Israel through rehab, the rehabilitation facility, which is excellent. We love Kesler right next door, but he could not stay at Kesler. It had to be at Daughters of Israel. Once he did the rehab at Daughters of Israel, he was transitioned into the
residency and has been living there for the last two and a half years. His the love and affection and the way that he's being cared for is outstanding. My father lost my mother 29 years ago. The concept of him sharing a
bathroom because he lives in a semi-private room is something that cannot happen. and I've already moved him once. In the current facility, the facility is old. The facility has is not updated. He would have to share a
bathroom. Very difficult to have a 99year-old who has lived on his own for a long time to now start to share a bathroom with somebody else. He's 100% with it. Um the facility again, the
people who work at Daughters of Israel, again, outstanding. the care that he's getting outstanding. The facility not so much. So I know the people who are at Daughters of Israel, the people who work there, they're really wonderful to work
with. I'm really asking on behalf of my father to work with them on this new idea, on this plan, whatever way to upgrade the facility itself. He is a veteran. He 22 months in the Korean
army. He is a Holocaust survivor. The idea of moving him around, take him to a different facility is out of the question. I don't know what I will do if Doris is not able to take care of him. So again, thank you so so very much for
allowing me to be his um the person to speak on be his behalf. Um, I do have his power of attorney and I am very, very, very happy that I'm able to speak today about the quality that he's receiving at Daughters of Israel and how kind they are to work with. Thank you.
Thank you, Miss Worth. Good evening, members of the town council. My name is Jason Buskin. I live at 22 Suburban Drive in West Orange. My family and I moved to West Orange, my wife and my two boys from New York about seven and a half years ago. We are proud
members of the West Orange community. Um, in addition to being residents, I have been coaching baseball in this town for probably 5 years and I'm a volunteer EMT in this town. When we can, we try to give back. The reason we're here is not just for that, but because I am one of
the families who was impacted by the decision regarding Daughters of Israel. About 3 four years ago, my mother, similar to the resident before me, was one of the patients that moved into Daughters of Israel. She began as a patient at Kesler and then she then was
transferred to Daughters of Israel and she's been there since as part of their long-term care. And I cannot speak enough about what Daughters of Israel has done to take care of my mother in these last three, four years. That the home that they've provided her for now
and for the future is unbelievably impactful on her life and immeasurable in how they just treat her on a daily basis. But there's more to it than just her being there. Because the idea is before you tonight, can we take that building if we don't pass this measure
and just drop it somewhere else? And what I'm here to say to you as a resident of West Oranges, that's simply not acceptable. My children, this being their grandmother, we live a mile and a half from Daughters of Israel. And while some days we can drive over and see my
mother, because we're Sabbath observers, we often walk there every Saturday. And that's simply something that will never again be possible if you take this facility out of West Orange. And we're not the only ones impacted by this. There are many other families that just go to Daughters on Saturdays and other
days and visit these residents and make a difference in their lives. And that is part of the unique specialness and uniqueness of Daughters that it's not just a facility that has been placed there, but it's a part of this community. It's been a part of this community for over a hundred years. As
you as you heard earlier, I want to tell you a quick story to highlight that about a week ago, my mother was unfortunately had to go to the hospital. She was at Barnabas for about a week and fortunately she got better and she said to us at the end of
the hospitalization, she said, "I just want to go home." And I thought she was confused. I thought she wanted to go to her old home where she lived years ago. And she actually meant that she wants to go home to daughters because that's become her home. not just because of all the activities and the bingo and the
this and the movies, but because of the way they treat her and the way they take care of her and it's how the community takes care of her. Um, you know, my colleague, my esteemed resident co-resident earlier said talked
about leadership. Leadership is about how you speak and how you talk and how you treat each other, but it's also about how you act. And this decision is about how you as a counselor are going to act. It is a message that you are going to send to this community about
what's important. You're going to set a tone what matters, who we are and who we value, how we value our parents and our grandparents and our loved ones being a part of our lives in this community. So when you make this decision, I urge you, I plead with you, please let that impact
how you look at this. I didn't know all these things that daughters does for the community. I learned a lot tonight that I never knew. But understand that the families that are impacted by this, it is more than just a few families. It is entire community. It is generations. I thank you for your support.
Thank you. Lisa Tuzo, 15 Carter Road. I am also the vice president of the West Orange Public Library Board and I can speak on behalf of the board when I uh ask for the
council's support in ordinance 2926-5. As a lifelong member of the community, I've seen many iterations of the library, the building, the original building um at Mount Pleasant, the
expansion, and I was part of the move many years ago, many, many years ago. Our library should be the jewel in the community. Instead, patrons go to libraries in other towns in our counties
that offer what we should for our patrons. Our vision is to give our patrons access to learning inside and out via a patio that can offer uh children's programming.
Our vision is for the safety of our patrons and staff. We ask that you approve the phase two with of course deferring to the
library board for any changes because the changes that were made internally were never brought to the board during the construction. Thereby, changes were made that removed things that were the
essence of the library. We have a vision. We know what our patrons want. We want everything but the pickle ball court. We find that disruptive.
Um, Councilwoman Ruden mentioned access to the lower door. That's a security issue. So we need to make sure we have proper staffing. Obviously we are very conscious of our budget. So that might
not be an option. A sprinkler system to maintain the beauty of that outdoor that is being envisioned would be lovely. Um once again I implore you to move on this as quickly as possible.
This has been going on since 2017. We want that jewel in our community now. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Tuzo. Good evening. My name is Robert Liftman.
L I C HTM. I live at 16 Roosevelt Avenue. My wife and I moved here with our two young children 40 years ago. And that's actually my point. One of the reasons we moved here was because of the wonderful infrastructure
offered by West Orange. I'm talking about everything from the Jinny Duncle pool to the parks to the playgrounds to the library and even to Daughters of Israel which we envisioned not needing right away but it was comforting that it
was there. I want to tell you that right now my mom is there and I could argue on her behalf that this is an important service but it's really not because of her. It's because when I moved here with my family I imagined that one day I
might need the excellent services of Daughters of Israel. I'm here to tell you that one day you may need the excellent services of Daughters of Israel and the non sectarian excellent services it provides should be a comfort to everybody in this community that
Daughters of Israel is there and will be there in a strong financial and service position for other generations to come. The last thing I'd like to just add is I learned tonight that May is older Americans month and I cannot think of a
better time for this board to accept the invitation from Daughters of Israel to work in partnership in advancing their proposal. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Curtis Meeks. I reside at Excuse me, Mr. Meeks. Could you just pull the microphone up a little bit so you can we can Great. Thank you.
Please go ahead. My name is Curtis Meeks. I reside at 104 Harrison Avenue above the bar, Llewellyn Park. Um, not here to make a complaint. I'm here to actually go against the complaints that's being made. I live right above. I have two kids. I have one that's autistic and I have my daughter that's
11, one goes to Redwood, one goes to St. Cloud. I've been residing here for over six years, but my wife and two kids. The microphone. Folks, you got to stop that, okay? It's just it's it's
please don't do that. Anybody who is having trouble hearing, please move up to the top rows. You'll be right next to the person. I'm sorry I can't do anything more about it, but please come up to the to the first row. There's plenty of room on both sides. Please go ahead, Mr. Meek. Sorry about that. Live
above the bar. Uh I'm here to go against the complaints. Most of them are not true. They say that the music goes loud over time. I live above the bar. My kids go to school every morning. They get a bus to come pick them up. They get all the rest they need. Um, everything's up
to par. I've been there for three different three different owners. First owner, as I heard them, they said that everything was good with that owner. It was absolutely not. The place was a mess. You really did have people on the sides drunk and everything. Second owner
was the bank. So, it didn't really, it was closed down. Now, when Anthony became the owner, he keeps everything to bar. I have no complaints. Every time I have something wrong, if there's something with the garbage, it's done as soon as I call them. Uh, they say they
say you're supposed to respect your neighbors. Well, I mean, respecting your neighbors is not throwing a bunch of cat food in the backyard and having 100 cats go where you live. That's not respecting your neighbors. Another thing is they said that they wish they can go in their backyard and enjoy it not having glass
bottles broken and everything. It's completely separated and I don't hear no glass bottles and they don't have a backyard. That backyard is a parking lot that we that people that live around there, we pay to park our cars there. And back to the respective with the cats. Cats are all over my cars. Like I
got two cars there. They're all over there just throwing it everywhere. So yeah, that everything everything that they said I don't see any I live right upstairs so there's no way that if the music's bothering them that much. I just don't see how it's happening because
it's not doing it to me. I live directly upstairs from the bars under me. I could hear everything. I could hear bass and it shut off at regular times. I work every morning. I work for Amazon. So I get up every morning. I don't have no problem with the music. I don't have no
I have no issues with Anthony as the landlord. He's been the best landlord that we had so far. So everything's up to par. It's clean in the backyard, on the side, in the front. I don't see I don't see the issue. So I don't know what kind of malice they have against
it. That's it. Thank you, Mr. Ree. Good evening. My name is Anthony Sharperson. I'm not a visitor to West Orange. I have family that resides here. I own the property located at 104 Harrison Avenue. I also am one of the owners of Llewellen Park Bar and Grill,
which is not a nightclub. We are a restaurant. This is not my first time speaking before council. The first time was in September of 2024. My attendance was prompted by the receiving of a noise violation summon at 4:30 p.m. We didn't open till 4:00 that day, so I'm not sure
how that happened. Immediately, I became concerned and alarmed, and I felt like something else was at play here. and the calls from my neighbor to the police department would not be isolated and would continue. At that September meeting, I urged the council to have a community meeting where I would make
myself available to discuss any concerns from my neighbors and resolve the issue. I then turned the mic over and I left. I was shortly alerted to the fact that my neighbors came and they spoke at the same council meeting. She stated she would never meet with me and she she refused the offer of coming to a
community meeting. She called me an animal. She said I was disrespectful and nasty. She also stated that those type of people that visit that establishment aren't the type of people that West Orange want. I'm not sure if she's aware those people are good people. They are doctors, lawyers, firefighters, police
officers, community people, people who have families. But she described them and myself as animals that amongst other statements I thought to myself were out outlandish and who would ever believe them and put value in such unjustifiable insults. I was mistaken. There was value placed in
those words. I was also mistaken for not coming back here to defend myself publicly and to follow up on a proposed community meeting that I asked this council to have and extend myself to my neighbors. In hindsight, I regret that. So, I'll move forward to
2025. We have received two noise summers this calendar year, both of which have been unsubstantiated. However, my attorney let me know. She also was alerted to the fact that there would be um a change in the town's noise ordinance. And while she appeared in court for one of those summuses, they
were not to be heard at that time as you guys were going to change some laws here in the town, which is also a violation of due process. I informed my staff that any rule changes were about us. The ordinance would be more restrictive and possibly punish our business. And I say our business because we all depend on
Wellen Park to support our families and our livelihood. I was also taken back by the fact that this governing body would not reach out and speak to businesses, mine included, that would be impacted by by this and throughout the town for any proposed noise
changes. We have received a visit from the health department building department regarding an obstructed egress. The obstruction was an empty garbage can. Was that visit necessary or appropriate or more intimidation? We also were visited by the state ABC
inspector, which doesn't happen by accident. As stated by the inspector, this visit was prompted by a phone call from one of our neighbors or someone within the town's administrations. No violations were found. Now, moving on to April 2025. At the last council meeting, this council discussed avoiding state
statutes regarding it limit implementation of an amended noise ordinance. The council spoke to it to the governance of liquor license establishments and state ABC visits and monitoring. I never alerted anyone to the fact that we had an ABC inspector at our location. Could this all be a
coincidence? The council also spoke to the institution of a new entertainment license requirement, possibly furthering and restricting my business in operating. Now that I've laid out some of the facts, not all of them, but a few that I've experienced as a business and personally, which are not in the normal
course of business, I'd like to ask a question and I'll explain to you how I feel. Have you heard the phrase know their names? This phrase was birthed from the killing of George Floyd and others and was coined to allow those living not to forget the names of those individuals who died before their time.
We do not want this business to be strangled out of existence. Let me be clear. I am not speaking to the West Orange Police Department. In my dealings with them, they have been nothing but courteous, professional, and showing respect to me in their handling of the situation and as as I do believe all residents of West Orange. So to that I
say thank you to the West Orange Police Department. But I cannot say the same for this administration. and you are strangling my thoughts, my feelings, and my heart in my business. I feel the pressures of a government that doesn't protect all of the citizen citizens. I feel the pressures that my ancestors face when they set out to build businesses and services and they were
burnt out and redlined out by the institutions that that were set in place to protect them, but they didn't. When I spoke to a council member two weeks ago and there were statements made of harassment and possible discrimination and abuse, her response was that she lived in Africa for a period of time. Thus, she could not be abusing her power, discriminate against my business.
I took a breath and I ignored the lack of understanding in her words. And I continued my plea to her to understand my side of the story had not been told. And when at when making judgments, please allow all sides to be heard with fair and unbiased thoughts. I was met with resistance. She may have heard me,
but she was not listening. She had no empathy for me. She had no understanding for me. She knew the full dynamics of my neighbor's family structure and living arrangement and clearly favored my neighbor's opinion of me, which was negative. Your time is up. Thank you, Mr. Sharperson.
Hello, my name is Britney Sharperson. I'm speaking on behalf of Lee Wellen Park. I will continue Anthony Sharperson's statements. The following day, I attempted to submit my application for an outdoor calf through planning as a request to use my outdoor patio. The request was initiated by
planning. I received an email on Monday, April 21st, stating I needed to submit the application along with four other items by Friday, April 25th. Upon attempting to submit my application to planning on Thursday 4:24, I was met with resistance. They insisted that I
provided more documentation than what was actually required for the application itself. After 30 minutes of discussion, I was allowed to submit and pay for the application to planning. So to fill everyone in, I'm not allowed to use my patio in any way to not even go back there until this process is
complete. Even though there was a little guidance on how to best proceed in the matter, as it appeared that this was a scramble to put roadblocks in Leewellis Park's way, I immediately went down the hall to the health department as instructed as part of the process for the outdoor calf, only to be met with more resistance and a greeting as if
they were waiting for me, waiting to say no, we can't accept your application. I felt like I was losing my right to vote. It felt like hurdles were being placed before me that were not there yesterday. I was hurt. I was told I need to see a supervisor in order to process my application. the deputy health inspector. I was unable to meet with him
that day as he was out of the office. I left with my head down with my heart hurting and my mind racing. I'm in a fight. One hour later, after leaving city hall, I received a call from my employee stating that the health inspectors were on site and they'd like to do an inspection of some type. I agreed reluctantly, but I also was
confused. I wasn't allowed to put the application in with the health department. Why is the health department there? Why is he questioning me? Why does he assume that I built an illegal structure on my patio? I was left with more questions than answers. Again, I was frustrated. I was hurt. And I earned
everything I've ever achieved in my life. But I know in my heart I didn't earn, nor do I deserve the way that I'm being treated. The next day, I spoke to another council member. We both discussed the reality of the situation, good or bad. And I expressed that ultimately I am and would like to be viewed as a good neighbor. But my
neighbor and members of this administration do not want me or my business in West Orange and will continue to harass and abuse their arm of power in determining how my business is treated. I then met with the mayor who was more understanding and appreciative of the efforts that I took as she was unaware that I had already
taken my own measures to self-govern and monitor based off of past complaints. I was encouraged yet still confused. I then met with the police department and several of its chiefs. They were honest and forthright in their communication with me. I can appreciate that I know what's expected of me and I can operate
within the confines of the law as I have been doing so as a restaurant owner for the last 19 years soon to be 20. So I am not new to the business but this treatment I have never encountered before. Within that conversation we were realistic and it was mentioned that it was not noise but vibrations my neighbor
was experiencing as body camera and officer statements don't align with the noise complaints. I then met with the planning for a second time who immediately informed me that the patio's permitted use was granted in 2009 and there was never a need to have come before that department even though the
communication was prompted by that department. So why was I prompted to comply and who is willing the power stick here? More questions than answers. I then proceeded back to the health department where I was met with more resistance and disbelief that I made it past planning. I believe in my heart that if the use was not previously
approved in 2009, there was no way that I would have been granted use of my patio under this current administration without legal action. After a one-hour meeting with the director and the deputy director, who I do not believe are personally implicit in this conspiracy, abuse of power, or bias, or whatever you want to call it that has been undertaken
to my business and tarnish my reputation. I do believe that they are operating under a microscope and under the force guidance of someone or persons. Ultimately, I was able to submit my application to the health department. But speaking frankly, I was told that every tea must be crossed and every eye must be dotted and there would
be a thorough review. A review that has already taken twists that others do not have to endure. I am being forced to jump through hoops that others are not being required to. I am being forced to do things that are not in the ordinary course of business and processing applications, licensing permits, and multiple inspections that are not
required, nor that I have experienced in all my time at Lee Wellin Park. With all this being said, I'm here to tell my story to defend my name and my right to do business in West Orange. But I'm still left with questions of why. Why, after I built a vestibule to control my amplified noise that may or may not leave my building, am I here? Why, after
I purchase decibel and ohm readers to self monitor, am I here? Why, after I limit the use of speakers at my location, am I here? Why, after I ask myself, what is it? What else is it that I can do to easily stress place upon my neighbors even though they didn't want to meet me, am I here? Why? After the West Arch Police Department offered
several visits to my neighbor's location to see what it is they were hearing and feeling, and they declined, am I here? I don't believe I'm here because of noise. I believe I'm here because of hate. Hate that has allowed her to call me an animal. An animal that puts his life on the line every time he puts on his uniform as a Jersey City fire captain.
An animal that just last week carried civilians out of a burning building to perform CPR until they were resuscitated. Your time is up. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Harperson. Good evening, council. Good job. Good evening, council. My name is Mark
Thompson. I am the co-owner with Anthony Park Bar and Grill. And I'll be short. Britney covered most of it. So, when she stated that she is in nursing school to save lives and ask you as a counsel to save her life for me and my business, I too ask you of something.
I ask that in the performance of your duties that you should leave no stone unturned. I ask that you listen to complaints and the defendants of those complaints with equal knowledge, compassion, and empathy. I ask that as a public servant, you leave all bias, all pre-existing notions, ideas of who we
are and what our business stands for based off of unfounded claims and gossip. Me coming here tonight, it was not about calling anyone out. It was about telling you all I've experienced and how this has taken over my thoughts and how it's been heavy on my heart. I
wish to coexist. I wish to find that place that my neighbor can look at me, respect me as a human being. I scheduled a we've scheduled a community meeting at Llewellyn Park Tuesday, May 13th at 5:00 p.m. The police have offered their presence along with the health department. We welcome the community
members of the council to come. I would like to simply resolve this matter on all fronts without legal action or harassment. Can we use the patio? Can we operate the business within the rules in town and public safety? Can our business be fairly treatly treated fairly, excuse me,
treated fairly in its operation and processing permits, applications, and licenses just as any other business within the town? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Good evening. My name is Lori Montiv and I am one of the operating managers at
Llewellyn Park as well as the executive chef. Um, I am responsible for making sure that the restaurant adheres to the ordinances that you have put into place. Most of the time when the police arrive,
um, when the health department, ABC, all of those ordinance, all of those agencies that have been showing up, I'm one of the people that they are meeting with. This restaurant, this business is owned
and operated by two professional firefighters. They are not just a bar owners. They are serving the community in a multitude of um of ways as we all are. I have my own business. I serve on
many nonprofits. Llewellyn Park is much more than just in um the center of the downtown. our reviews, our food um has become so popular. I want to know how many of you have actually patronized the
business, have come in there and seen it in operation, then you will see that we're operating within the confines of of the laws that you are set to enforce. Um I'd like to also say that we host a variety of a multitude of
nonprofit fundraisers. breast cancer. We recently held a small business forum with Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl, who's a gubanatorial candidate right now. Um, Llewellyn Park does a a a
wealth of things to give back to the community. We donate to the high school. We've given food. Every every person that comes and asks for our support, we are there to support them because we are community partners. And so it's really
disturbing to me that this council, while yes, you have to um adhere and listen to your residents, but you're focused on one rental resident. When you have a law-abiding,
taxpaying business that pays for several employees, it's my livelihood and several others. We have customers that come in there that depend on us to have quality food and um an establishment that they host. We've had a wedding
there. We've had um different things, graduations. So to say that we're um animals or that we're wild or that there's beer um bottles broken, that's just a fallacy. It's a lie. And so one thing I do agree with what was stated by our neighbor is that lying is against
the law. And so I encourage you to come because I am that person who's planting the flowers, picking up garbage from the time I park my car in the parking lot. I'm picking up garbage from across the street straight through because
we they own the building. They're not going anywhere. They own it. We're invested in the community. We're there to make it better. So we invite this council to come in. If you haven't patronized us, I invite you to come at any time, meet with us and see. We still
open the door to our neighbors to come in and sit with us. They've never been in there. You know, have you looked in their backyard? Because I do because I'm back there picking up the garbage along the pathway. All the garbage that's um
in their back is very visible. Um we have it exterminated regularly. We we take care of that property around there. We take pride in it. So, uh just a lot of the things that are being said against this business just are not true.
They're lies and it is harassment and there's a pattern of harassment that is going on with other businesses um that are right beneath them as well. And so, you really need to look into um having a study. I would like to see the township
put some investment into a vibration study going over there with your own noise. If she won't let you into her apartment, then stand out front of it and tell me what you hear. You're already living on a busy
um street with um Harrison Avenue and Main Street right there. I think it's really unfair to target us and try to shut down a business that is paying quite frankly the taxes that you talk about the deficit that you're in and you
want to shut us down like it's just unfair. It's really you're doing a disservice to the people in this community and we see you. We see you very clearly and we're going to hold you accountable because it's just not fair. It's not right. This is my livelihood
and I take great pride in this job and this position that I hold and until real change is made by you taking us with the same kind of care and consideration as you give a renter. Thank you.
Thank you, Miss Wigu. Good night all. My name is Janelle Jerome and I live on Columbia Street in West Orange. I'm here today to complain about the lack of service that we receive in the downtown area. I've been living in the downtown area for over 20
years. Last week, Saturday night was the worst experience of them all. I called West Orange Police Department for assistance because I had a neighbor on on Liberty Street, the block behind me, playing music from 12:00 p.m. on
Saturday until 2:35 Sunday morning. I called at 1:47. I called at 20:03. I called at 2:20. And for each time I called, I heard they were busy. They couldn't
come. I also heard they could not hear the noise. So I want to play the noise that I recorded. Give me one second. Let me get the right How do you not hear this? How do you tell me that you cannot
find this? As I said to the lady, no one came. Because if someone came, they would have known where to go. And for you to call me back to insult my intelligence and tell me that someone
came is unacceptable. While I understand that they may be busy or they may feel that we don't deserve services, I pay property tax. I am not a renter. I own my home and I am to the point where I want to sell my home at the end of this
school year when my 18-year-old goes off to college because I don't want to live in West Orange anymore. I work in New York. I work for the city of New York. And if I give the services to the my people that I work with, what I get from
West Orange, I wouldn't have a job. And this is what West Orange Township need to understand. Whether we are renters or not, we deserve a service. I complain about my garbage. Never mind that. The garbage truck pick
up what they feel like and what they don't they leave behind. And the township doesn't come to see. It sits there all week long. On top of that, there's no garbage cans. So, everyone throw their garbage
cans all over the street. Our drains are clogged. When it rains, our street is flooded. This is not what I pay. $14,000 a year in property tax for I don't pay property tax for those kind of services.
And yet alone, when I email this council, no one ever replies. There's no common decency with anyone that sits here to say, "Let me reply." With the exception of maybe two, but everybody else reads the email and they could not be
bothered. Well, guess what? I could not be bothered and I've had enough. And we need something to be done because again, not everybody that lives in that area is a renter. I pay taxes to this township like the people of everybody else that
live in this township. Thank you. Good evening. Uh Seth Weissletter, 17 How Drive Drive. Uh first of all, I'm in the senior care business and hearing this about Daughters of Israel. pretty upsetting
that this town will once again find itself on on legal aspect housing or a CRC community, continuing care retirement community. That's what it stands for. And we're positioning ourselves because we don't have a town
planner. We need a town planner. Our pieces aren't together. We hear businesses complaining. We hear residents complaining. We're we're trying to solve every single problem at every council meeting and it's 9:40 and you still have an executive session. I don't know what to say, but we look at
other towns, Brains Mill and Caldwell, go visit that facility, please. Fivear. Go visit over in South Orange. There's another CRC there. Five-star. I've been in Daughters of Israel. I've had clients there. I've met with their
staff. They are great people. and West Orange deserves a five-star CRC facility. Without it, we're just making ourselves a non-competitive town once again and we will lose residents. Now, on to my main point while I'm here.
Also, please a new microphone system. We heard it's coming. Spend $1,000. Let's let's let everyone hear and let's get rid of some of the frustration in this room. People can't hear. People are too hot, too cold. It's every single meeting, not just the council meeting,
but it raises that level of tension. Let's get rid of it. Come on. We We have donators. Let's get a donation and get a sound system fixed. So, I'm basically here to speak about a resolution that's on the agenda 138-25, which is going to authorize
continue payment to Gova Burns LLC to defend the West Orange Town Council and its ongoing lawsuit with the mayor or vice versa, however you want to look at it. It's been going on for two years now. I am not here tonight to ask for
comment on pending litigation and I'm not asking you to comment. But to date, this resolution I gathered from reading it quickly, we're almost at $70,000 of taxpayer money and we're arguing about a couple hundred so we
could speak first. Doesn't make sense. And this resolution doesn't provide a cap or a clear statement of how much more is going to be spent. I think the public deserves to know how much more is coming. What else is unclear now is how
much has been spent on legal representation for the mayor. If the township funds are covering those expensive too, they have been approved. Don't doesn't the council have to be approve it? Is the CFO aware of the total amount
that we're about to spend? These aren't just technical questions. They are about transparency, fiscal responsibility, and public trust. We just heard it in a couple presentations. This is litigation, double dipping between two
attorney firms, and they're going to make out and get that Florida condo. Whoever said that, because if we start adding up both sets of legal fees, we're talking about a six figure cost to taxpayers. Is that correct? I don't know. Maybe the CFO or
administration can answer it. Imagine that money could be redirected towards things that we all care about and have heard. Hiring of a full-time town planner and blessing in youth, parks, playgrounds, senior services, and improve our
downtown. Everyone has said this statement at least once. I want what's best for West Orange. But is this really what we all can be? When political disagreements turn into expensive legal battles, we all lose. Not just financially, but in terms of unity,
trust, and progress. It's been two years behind closed doors, and taxpayers are now being stuck with both bills. I respectfully urge the council, the mayor, and administration to find that path forward that puts West Orange first. Not lawyers, not pride, and not
politics. Enough is enough. My question comes down to when does it end? and what at what cost direct and indirectly. Thank you. Good evening, council president and members of council. My name is Gerald
Sweeney. I live at 24 West Orange. I'm president of Friends of West Orange Public Library and I'm here to speak in support of the ordinance to fund the phase two
library related improvements at 10 Rooney Circle. Our members over 230 regularly use the library and regularly need to use the library. the library. The good news I want to tell
you people who use the library, the new library love it. It has it's brightly colored. It's lively, lots of light. It's got lots of parking. It's got everything that people promised for the
building. What it doesn't have is the promises of the utility of the enormous number of parking spaces and other facilities on which it was
located. Two of the promises and benefits of moving there were enhanced parking so we could we could uh have a lot more people there. they can use the community space and and other uh meeting areas within the library. And second,
because it had enormous amount of parking, how the way the parking is allocated now, the bulk of the desirable parking right up the uh the eastern end or the upper end of the library is
assigned to the second floor tenant. Not available for patrons. There's a few patron spaces, maybe about 14, but the bulk of the parking has to be down in the lower the lower uh parking area. Lower parking area. And I first of all,
I have to give great credit to township engineer Carbalo. She spelled out all the things that are planned for work. Well, the reason they're planned is because all of them are necessary. So I
get down to where the criticism is of the current library. It's that the accessibility to the space is not desirable. The parking is not as useful because the lower level
requires that you walk up a driveway or road that has no walkway, no railings, no anything. It's sort of a steep incline. If uh uh elderly or persons with a stroller, they have to push it all the way up to the top of the hill,
come back down. That's so uh all of the things I want to just just point to a couple things that I think are important. Some while not all of it safety related, a lot of it is safety related.
Today when I went over to the library, there was a u there's a group program for young kids and there was probably about 60 people there. Most all of them parked at the lower level. So coming up they have to walk up a
driveway, no railings, no lines, no space. Uh second, uh the the the lower lots and most of the lots the asphalt is deteriorated. There's no lighting or minimal lighting
or minimal functioning lighting in the parking lots at night. So, if you come out at night, you can't really use it down there. It's just not really uh effective. Um the other thing, security cameras, lighting, walkways,
accessibility, those are the key things. And and this um what we need to do is finish this project. It's right now it's an unfinished project. It was always contemplated that the library
facilities, the uh the grounds you would be able to sit outside and do it. Fencing is needed there because you can't have little kids out there. They'll be either falling off the ledge or else they'll be going into the road. So, that needs it. That's part of this
uh project. Fencing along 280. I think that's appropriate. There's no fence there right now. There's a guard rail that's about 2 and 1/2 ft high. That's the only thing that keeps I'm not worried about cars, but I'm worried about people either going from the
driveway or coming from the the highway. But most all the things are well justified by accessibility, by safety, by convenience and by overall making the place a library and
attractive place that people want to go to. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Sweeney. My name is Richard Groves, 41 Yale Terrace, West Arms, New Jersey. Been here resident. Yeah, just move it up there. Yeah. Can you Can you repeat your
address, please? 40 on I'm sorry. Uh, Richard Groves, 41 Yale Terrace. Thank you. West Orange, New Jersey. 30-year residence. Uh um Council President, I asked that I have a few
moments after the time. I know you've given that in the past. I don't think it'll be much, but I'm just asking for that in advance. Certainly. As I said, u Richard Groves, I'm here in response to um the issues that are going on with Llewellyn Park. Um I've heard a number of words chosen tonight, which I think
speak volumes about what's happening. Due diligence, leadership, or their lack thereof. Uh I've um identified myself also as a participant in a men make a difference. We are a mentoring program a mentoring group throughout the state um
member of the downtown alliance uh and as affiliate with the mimic of difference we've always looked at solutions not problems and for seven years we had a program after school program where we had three to 400 kids at risk kids coming through our program
where we had mentoring um and basketball and so forth and we were able to get many of those kids into high school and then into college solutions versus issues. isues. Um, one of those kids I even adopted my son. I brought him into our home because that's what he needed.
Solutions versus issues. And tonight we have issues versus solutions. Um, I think integrity is very important, but optics also matter. I someone told me that there's a statement in West Orange. We are we are West Orange. No hate lives here.
You know, I beg the difference to some extent given the uh testimony or the the response from the Lelen Park people who I know have gone to the facility, have been at the facility. I was there when when the the construction person came in
midday for my birthday of all days, 12:00, 1:00 in the afternoon, nobody's in there, 8, nine people. And he's talking about obstruction on the side of the building. We go there was there two garbage cans that had just previously been taken off the street and just had not been put in the shed yet. But you can't see that from the street. So that
means somebody who's looking over the the the wall trying to make some issues up. And no one has said this, but this is um Councilman Joyce Ruden is the direct person who's been doing all this. I know this personally. I've gotten calls regarding this. I don't get paid to be here. I've never gotten paid to be
here, but I get as many calls as you guys about crap like this, about how we are not serving the people, but we have a personal agenda. as part of downtown Alliance. The goal there is to bring facilitate a growth so that people want
to come to West Orange, but then you target a group of of young people who have a building that has they're in a business district and you try to put them out of business. Why do I say that? And there's a narrative that seems to be similar to that's going across the country. Optics matter. Maybe it's not
that, but optics matter. First we had an issuing group who we voted against who by the way could have facilitated with the planning so forth that would have gone here. Didn't do that. The other group was the black museum which we don't want that because of the traffic up there. We want to come downtown here
where we have potential contamination there. And then finally we have Llewellyn Park who's been there two years. Nothing was said about their outdoor space. I've been there when they had music. My fraternity I'm also part of a capasai or the divine nine fraternity incorporated. Right. And so I'm there and there are people coming in
all the time. I don't hear this. I've talked to the police officers. They don't hear this. I've asked each member on the council I've spoken to. Have you ever been down to hear noise? No, you haven't. You have not listened to anything. Typically you you don't know this. And we had a conversation. We had
a conversation here and you said that out of control is a nightclub, which it is not. Right. And then we also said that we heard a statement said I was hearing the statement was said that um we said the only thing that seemed to be different is not the location but the people and you muttered oh I'm not a
racist I lived in Africa. Most racist thing you could say to people of color. Now we were targeting a place that was a Jewish entity. Guarantee you we've been called anti-semitic. Mr. Groves Mr. Gross. I apologize for
interrupting you, but I'd like you to focus on as you said. I focus on I focus on it. This all has to do with with everything we're talking about. Words matter. Words matter. They wouldn't have state made that statement either. If your words did not matter. The people wouldn't have shown
up here if words and actions did not matter. Now, if you were really trying to help, we're trying to bring everybody together. Then we would have tried to get the residents in a room, right? I know that I know Michelle Castelino has tried to do that. They've denied it. I know the police have tried to go in to
listen to see if this occurred, but we're taking one side. That is not a solution. That's an issue. And as I mentioned before, issues don't are not solutions. And then we're talking here tonight. I've not heard anyone talk about any solutions to rectify this.
They've tried everything. The decimal readers. I Blandon was in there when the when the uh health department came in and I know why they're coming. I've been told that this is the reason they've come in targeting and you're going to keep doing this and you're going to have some
problems legally or otherwise. It's not a good thing. I know many of you are on the council and I've said that please Mr. Gross please continue as I said just try to wrap it up as quickly as you can please. Okay. So I'm coming to an end. So I was saying all that to say that as a person
who's just a residence we've had always with solutions versus issues. Why is it that my little community of folks can come to some get a resolution to get solutions and then a body that has the back end of the town and so forth can't come to this and that's all they're asking for. We don't want want them to
be targeted because as a member of downtown Alliance we can't promote downtown if they feel it's it's people feel developers feel that it's unfriendly to businesses or specifically businesses that look like me. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Groes.
Uh, good evening everyone. Uh, my name is Darren Nurse. I'm at uh, six Dartmouth Road, but I'm also part of downtown West Orange. Um, you know, it's interesting because, you know, every time I see this piece of paper, I see all the things that need to be done. The
paper just grows more and more. Also, by the way, if I get sick, I just want to go to Daughters of Israel. So, just somebody send me over there. All right. Um Oh, God. Sounds like a great place. But, um, no, for real. Listen, um, coming from the entertainment
business, uh, in New York, uh, dealing with nightclubs, um, dealing with industry people, all those different things. Um when you when you when you set up something like that and when that is in an area where people uh and this is not
to speak down or to speak against anyone, but when you set up in an area that is considered a business district and you have people that live in the business district, they have to adhere to the business district. And the reason that is because that district is a
commercial district and that commercial money gives to the town or the city. Now, I was here before and I tried to explain that, you know, this is no longer a small town. And I think the
real issue is for me as I see it, you know, you keep thinking of this as a small town. This is not a small town. You have a lot of families, young families that want to do things besides head out to Montlair, South Orange, Maplewood, Morristown. They're here. So
they want to be here and being a part of downtown Alliance is trying to attract those businesses here. I've been in Lwell and Park and Grill. I held meetings in Llewellen Park and Grill. I've been there in the daytime. I've been there in the evening and I can tell you for a fact that there are no
disturbances. The one thing I want to take back and and probably try to explain to the residences that live in the area, you guys need to understand these people that own this building, they are having your protection at best because they are civil workers themselves. So they have
to adhere and make sure that the community is protected. So when you deny yourself from meeting with them, when you deny yourself from wanting to be around them or try to understand the situation, then you deny yourself of the whole thing alto together because you're not really trying to be to a solution.
Um, another thing is, you know, listen, we got a person that's a CPA in the town or, you know, ch uh town financial guy, you know, we need somebody to help build the town out. And I'm sure he see the numbers and I'm sure he's looking like, "Yo, we need money." And the one thing I
can tell you is this. If you continue to disrupt things and make things difficult, what happens to downtown? It becomes a ghost town. And when it becomes a ghost town, then the town itself is dead altogether because now
you have no businesses. You have no commercial business coming through. And those are the things that you need. You have no development coming through. Those are the things that you need. So what I'm saying is you need to look at the whole thing all over again. Whatever these ordinances are that you come up
with or however these things are written, you need to rewrite them. You need to change them. You need to have I mean you think about between town and the board of ed the money that's being wasted and being spent and how in how
much in debt each one is. I mean this is crazy. This makes no sense. So what it is is bad management. So bad management has been taking place for so long that now it's become a habit and now we have to find a way to break that habit you
know and we have to change those things and it got to start working together more and more because as I'm saying before as I said before I'm going to say again if nothing change and to attracting commercial businesses this town becomes a ghost town and then
people are really going to be upset when it becomes that type of town because there's nothing else to be Thank you, Mr. Nurse. Check one [Music] two. Good evening, uh, council. Um,
wasn't going to speak tonight. John Blandon, Barisville Road, West Orange here. First thing I want to say and I wrote it to you guys in correspondence. Come, let us reason
together. If we are truly West Orange and no hate lives here, come let us reason together. There are three branches of government. There's the executive,
there's the legislative, and there's a judicial branch of government. The executive branch enforces the law. The legislative branch, your job is to make
laws and the courts, the judicial branch responsibility is to interpret the laws. And it seems like we're bringing this stuff from Washington DC to our town where some people just think
that they can do the executive, legislative, and judicial branch of government themselves. I just had an opportunity to speak to the residents outside and Councilwoman Ruden, I'm going to tell you, you're wrong. You need to stop.
Now, you wrote me a letter after I wrote y'all a letter hiding behind legal that your attorney advised you and the council not to be involved with meeting with people. Well, wasn't it illegal when you met with the folks down at
Lwellen Park? So, if it wasn't right then, if it was right then, why isn't it right now that you're hiding behind an attorney? You've been a large part of what's going on and I'm calling you out. Mr. Mr. Button, I'm sorry. You're you're
saying very important things. No problem. But please just direct. If I'm wrong, sue me. No, sir. I don't I don't want to do this. I want to hear what you have to say, but I would I request that you I'm saying this because as legislators, your jobs are to legislate
and make laws, not to be mingling in the executive branch and judicial branch of government. Now, I met with the resident. I'm the one who asked you guys after all of this ranker to call a community meeting and then you council hides behind we've spoken to our legal.
It's in writing and I could read it if you need me to. And that's what troubles me. If we are West Orange and we really want to come to reason together, I once read and I gave it to you guys in writing. If you have a problem, come to
your brother and sister in person. They don't listen, get someone else. They don't listen in, bring them before the community. I've talked to the residents outside. You've been a large part of this. The council, I'll say that. The
council, the residents are willing to meet. Llewellyn Park has extended the olive branch. If I have to walk with the young ladies and gentlemen because it was said that they're afraid of the
owners at Llewellyn Park. It's not true. I spoke with them outside. It's a scheduling situation. I have been to Llewellen Park on a regular as I come here and tell you I try to support our businesses the last
five times in the last five weeks that I have been there. One of them was Mr. Groves who spoke tonight. The building department came. I was there this past Friday with my wife. She was on spring break having lunch. The health department came. I was in there one day
having lunch with my son. The ABC came. I was in there having lunch with one of my mentors. The health department came and it all goes right back to one council person. And I'm going to tell
you if this stuff continues and I tell you guys as a person, if you say something to me and you tell me that you didn't mean it and I tell you it's offensive, it's the receiver, not what you said. And it's like any other
culture. You say something to me like Mr. Gro said and I tell you, hey, that's a racist or can be considered a racist comment, don't say it again. And then don't embarrass the person or yourself by making another charge
statement. And Mr. Gro already spoke on that. Please, please, please, I am pleading with you guys. Let's come
together and reason. Councilman Castalina, we go way back and you know some of the meetings, but we reasoned together. Let's come together and reason together. The tenants are are here.
They're willing to meet May 13th, 5:30 p.m. at Llewellyn Park. They've extended the Olive Branch. God bless you. Please go ahead. Good evening, Sally Malanga Ridge
Road. I wanted to address the issue of Daughters of Israel. I went to all the zoning board hearings. The reason why Daughters of Israel was not approved is because they were not considered an inherently beneficial use
in their new plan. They had shrunk their nursing home division way down. They had presented an obsolete uh proposal for their nursing home facility. They had proposed 192 market rate luxury
apartments with a $500,000 entry fee. They were cutting down way too many trees on a steep slope which would have caused flooding in the neighborhood. They had unnecessary retaining walls which were cutting down
trees. So their project was too high and too big. it would have obstructed the neighbors and they were told all of that. If they come back with a more considerate plan, it might get
approved. That's what I think the uh members of the community should know cuz a lot of people did not go to the zoning board hearings. But I wanted to talk about the gas powered blowers
again. Just this last week, I watched in shock when a mosquito control vehicle fired up their gas powered blowers to blow pesticides around my neighbor's property. The next day, over an hour of
painful noise and vibration, another neighbor's landscaper literally blew out all the leaves from their shrubs needlessly. Then he walked the entire street blowing toxic dust from the street back onto their lawn. They have two children and
two dogs. The residents are not exaggerating when we say we feel oppressed by this daily onslaught of industrial-grade noise and the smell of raw gasoline. This is not a minor inconvenience. It's
an attack on the peaceful enjoyment of our homes. something that is supposed to be protected by local government. Some have floated the idea of a referendum, but let's be clear that was suggested by a dealer of gas powered blowers, not by
residents. We do not want to be pitted neighbor against the costly fossil fuel political battle. But there is a silver lining in this. If we act, there's a huge benefit waiting for us. It was brought up earlier. We can save a half a million
dollars a year for the community in our tax dollars by not having the Department of Public Works collect piles of leaves from the streets in our town after all the
landscapers spend two or three months blowing them into the street causing accidents and car fires. Residents are paying twice. once for their landscaper to needlessly blow leaves to the curb in a so-called fall cleanup and then
residents pay again for the town to take them away. We can easily instead mulch the leaves and gather the few that are left. Other towns are doing this. It's sustainable. It's proven and it will
save us a lot of money. and then maybe we can buy those pickle ball courts. So, uh, we expect you to act now with determination on a summer ban and a full ban in 2026. Right now, we got nothing,
no protections at all. So, we're looking to get the same kind of protections just as Montlair, Maplewood, Glenn Ridge, and many, many other towns. And then please let's get rid of that half a million dollars wasted. 10 years of that. We got
$5 million in our pocket. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Milanga. Before you speak, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Um I have to excuse myself. I'm turning over Council President to Councilwoman uh Castle. I will be back just as soon as I
can. Please excuse me. You're going to miss You're going to miss the bea best part. Last last but not least, I hope. I'll watch it on the TV. What? I'll watch the recording. Okay. I'm sorry. I'll be back as soon as I can. Thank you, sir. Your name and address. I was watching the minute hand. I thought
maybe you guys were using a calendar for for timing how this goes. But but anyway, your name I'm sorry, sir. Your your name and address, please. Lee Hinden, L E H I N D I N 79 Crystal, West Orange, New Jersey. Of course. Do you have that, Madam Clerk? No. Wait, could
you say it again, sir? Madam Clerk, 79. No, I have the address. Hinden h I N D is in David I N. Thank you sir. The the the longer I was listen Excuse me. Could we please have quiet? The
gentleman's going to speak. Thank you. As I was sitting I I wanted to speak about the two main issues that were originally addressed. But as I sat as I was listening I have one suggestion. I wonder if there's some way you you might consider, I don't know if this is the right word,
deputizing people around town on their own uh willingness to participate and let anyone who lives near a sewer be given a sort of claw rake or something and just commit to cleaning it uh for
the benefit of the whole community when it gets clogged in the fall or gets clogged by debris. Um I do that by hand, so to speak. uh in front of my house, but uh it's just something I think would be easy to to deal with. Um so so the
the first thing about the um the the uh library and the and the pickle ball uh issue. Um I was really surprised that you know there was no really data on this. One person said, "Well, I think it would be noisy." The chairperson said,
"Um, well, I I hear it's like this loud. I go buy it." Um I I I did a little research while I was sitting there and the decibels can be estimated. Um the projection of the uh volume is not linear and if you add one quart and add
eight seven more quarts, it's only a decibel increase of maybe nine. But the basic concern is that and I put in just a measure of nine of 900 feet. I don't know what the difference how long I
don't remember what the distance was from where the pickle ball courts would be uh to where the uh library windows would be but this is this is a simple engineering issue that uh a sound engineer would would uh have to deal with. Um that's not my field but I don't
know why you don't have simple data when there's data available. Um I happen to be a psychiatrist. I was uh I've been in the town for uh for 42 years. I think I was director of psychiatry at St. Barnabas. Um I go back many many uh many
years. Um I I think that um the the issue of uh how the library was was priced and the evolution of what took place. It's very confusing. I think
you you said uh that uh there was uh an an invitation that should be given or an option and then you identified that that it's a legal matter. Um uh I think it's something the town attorney should look into. If the people who got this going
um had an obligation to present it to um the town town planning board um then whoever did that should be brought back and at least be asked how this how this happened and see if anyone is is liable for for what took place.
Um so that that was really pretty uh surprising to me. Um and the only the other thing I wanted to say is um I uh was was a consultant at the Daughters of Israel. Um I would go in and do consultations when I was based in St.
Barnabas. Um and my father was there and uh you know I uh when he was there and my children could uh go and visit him as one of the other people said and my son who is sitting back there is the head of pastoral counseling from there. And so, um, I put my name on the waiting list
and I hope that when I'll be there, uh, and my wife, maybe she won't have to be there, but, um, that, uh, my son and my grandchildren will come and visit me there. It's a pretty good place. So, that's that's my Thank you,
sir. And it back to uh, Council President. Thank you, Council President Castelino, please. Good evening, Janette Pavez, Valley Road, West Orange. On behalf of Llewellyn Park, I appear before the municipal council asking that you assist
in urging and directing the municipal departments to follow the West Orange municipal code and seeking clarification as to why Llewellyn Park was instructed not to allow anyone on their outdoor space in any capacity. The outdoor space is part of their premises. And to be
clear, my question is not about whether or not they may offer or serve food or beverages on the outdoor space as that is governed by the outdoor cafe permit which has been applied for. The question is what prevents them or their patrons from simply sitting in said space? What
ordinance authorizes the town to prevent anyone from sitting on private property complying with zoning that is insured by the business? Proof of insurance which is required by the town. It appears that this this is unfortunately an example of the town overreaching in its authority
in an effort to stifle and disrupt a business that is doing everything to operate in a lawful manner. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak? Please, please come up. Mr. Mr. Sharperson, we don't allow
people to come up. Yes. Uh, seeing no one uh eligible to come up wants to come up, I'm going to close uh public comment at what time is it? 10:14. Yes.
I want to thank everybody and I want to open up uh the responses from the council people. I'd like to start with uh Councilwoman Scarpa if she is still with us.
Yesoman Scarpa. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Thank you. Yes, I am with you. Thank you. Um all right, let's I want to try to keep a brief tonight since it's so late. I'm going to um just kind of go by topic. Um, please
don't feel slighted if you know if I don't talk about talk with you by name. Um, but in terms of um, Terry Triggs, I just wanted to say I completely agree with you about the Eagle Rock traffic. I don't know if you saw the meeting about
a few council meetings ago. I read a letter that I received from concerned residents of your neighborhood exactly on this issue and I and suggested an unbiased traffic study. So I am
completely agreement and we need to be careful we monitor what kind of development we have in that area. Uh Emily Peace, um my Gregory neighbor, I want to thank you and your entire group for I will be voting for both of those
um ordinances that uh you are concerned about. I live at 343 Gregory Avenue and you can feel free to stop and visit with me any time. I've wanted to reach out to you, but unfortunately I just haven't had an opportunity and get to know you
better. I am a lifelong resident of Gregory Avenue. Uh attended Gregory School. My son attended Gregory School and I really would like to get to know all of you better and uh help you in any way. And thank you so much for all of
your advocacy. It's made um my life a lot nicer on Gregory Avenue. uh everyone who came out um concerning uh the noise. I hope our noise ordinance will help us to uh curtail some of the
noise that is difficult for our neighbors to deal with. We have it in many places in town. It's unfortunate that you know we do have residential and business right next to each other. We probably we do need to do whatever we
can to mitigate the situation both for the restaurant owners who you know who we uh love and want to make sure that they continue to thrive and for those neighbors who are um bothered by it. Um,
Carol, um, in terms of the gas, uh, powered blowers and Sally and all who talked about that, I think you know that I, uh, totally agree with you. I'm horrified by the gas powered blowers,
uh, the noise, the dirt. I want to thank you for, um, bringing to light again the economic advantages. And I think if we had taken a more deliberate and thorough approach,
um, we might have we might be able to have a better solution moving forward. I'd love to see our CFO, Mr. Datiniac, have real numbers on the break evens uh to work with the school system.
you know, I could not vote for it at this time because the schools had that $11 million deficit and it would have been um devastating for them. Uh I think we need to have education on mulching
the leaves and move towards um towards this direction of um as soon as we possibly can. But we need to do it right and I do think that we do need a referendum. Um when this came up a
couple meetings ago and I was not able to support it, it was not only it was the schools, it was that there were many many residents who came out and had real concerns about not only the economics of
it, but uh many many others, the the small landscapers um really came out and made me aware of how devastating it was going to be their for their businesses. So we need to look at whatever programs
come we can put in place whatever PSEG is doing and we need to move in this direction more slowly more deliberately but as quickly as we possibly can. Um Lisa Trudeau uh thanks for coming out
in support of the library. um we do want to make all of the improvements that we need to at the library. However, I don't think what's been proposed here um is something that I can support given the
level of debt that we have and uh we really need to look at this whole thing in the context of our um capital budget and we will make those necessary um library modifications of course.
However, you know, a pickle ball court, that's kind of a nice to have, but maybe we don't need a pickle ball court right now. Um, also, you know, to me, I think we need to look more carefully about putting that right next to an outdoor seating area, particularly if we want to
have children's activities there. I know I would not want to work with children. I work with children as a speech pathologist, and I would not want to work ch with children that was so close to that kind of area. I don't think it would be beneficial for them. So maybe we need to find a better home for the
pickle ball. Um, but I guess we'll have more discussion on that. That uh being the astute businessman you are, you hit the nail on the head. All of this has been about a lot of the problems that we've have had
in our township have been because we don't have a town planner. We've done haphazard development. Um I really feel that if we were making better decisions um that
were not biased and that were in the best interest of the residents uh we would be alleviating a lot of the problems. And I hope that our mayor is listening and she will work collaboratively with our council to get
a planner because that will make a big difference. Last night I watched Mont Claire's planning board and I would suggest all of you go on. They're going to have another meeting in another couple of weeks. They talked about our afford their affordable housing plans,
something that we're dealing with now. Their planner led the way with their planning board. They had an unbiased and detailed discussion with residents as well. In fact, they actually had surveyed the residents in a mailer and
it was just so professional and so thoughtful. I thought what a model of how to make decisions. It reminded me of being back in a boardroom making business decisions. And I really would urge not only my council colleagues but residents to take a look at their
meeting and their next meeting and see what a thoughtful discussion on this topic should look like. Um and I think that's about it. I think I covered just about everything. Thank you, Councilwoman. Who'd like to go next? Councilwoman. Sure. Thank you,
Council President. Um thank you everybody for coming down this evening. I know it's already 10:30 and just listening to public comment and for attorney for for waiting because it's important that we get to our our public. So, I'm going to start off with uh Miss
Scales. Um always great to see you, former board of education member. Um and I'm going to ask our BA if he could kindly make sure that we could look into her request. This is I mean she's been here a couple years now and I don't know
why this is so hard um turning making a left into CVS parking lot as you're going at the light at prospect towards uh a new proposed target. So if we could talk to the county and see what we could
do in regards to that. Uh Miss Peas, thank you so much and the whole Gregory community for coming out to advocate. Um, you know, we're going to get this done. It's it's been a long time coming. I can't believe the traffic that goes
through the this entire town, especially over there at the Gregory area. It's just hasn't been uh safe. So, and our I really got to thank the county working with our engineer uh doing tremendous work. Uh not enough hours in a day for
our director, Corbella. So, I got I have to thank her for getting all this done. These are monumental tasks, but they're important for our schools uh community. I'm going to skip over that. Mr. Wingham, I just got to thank you for
coming out to talk about the trees. Um when I saw your email, I have responded on an internal email that you weren't copied on. I what how we don't sign off on these trees after the contractor
plants them I believe will change. And I look forward to that change. So we could make sure that um the contractor we contract this out and we have to make sure when the contractor does all this planting that it's done properly uh
before payment is issued and um so I look forward to seeing that process change. So thank you for coming out and and for sharing with us Slid um and also Miss Manga. I'm not going to rehash
the gas power leaf blowers. Um, everyone knows how I I felt about those. I don't think the technology is there yet, but I am going to address it. I was working with my colleague uh colleague. We're working on this noise ordinance. That is not up yet. Someone mentioned it. It it
passed. It's in effect. It it's still it's still we're working on it. Um but I was willing to look at certain times uh for that on the weekends because I know um the noise is an issue but there's a lot of you know there's a lot of parameters that we have to make sure we
we get right and we've been trying to cover everything which is quite difficult in such a large township with so many different needs. Um with that I am going to next talk about daughters of Israel. I know attorney said earlier uh
you know not to comment too much on the presentation but I do thank them for coming this evening uh for that presentation. 99 years with a stellar reputation in our township. They're they really have been a jewel uh right there next to Kesler helping so many residents
and people throughout the community. And you know I I hope something can be done for them. um we love to keep them in town and we'll see how that progresses progresses and I appreciate all the speakers coming out to talk about it this evening. And I also appreciate Miss Malanga's points. She did sit through
all those meetings. So I I did follow some of that and there are some points there. So hopefully something uh can can be worked out and I look forward to uh entertaining that discussion. Next, I'm trying to hurry
because I know it's late. um Lisa Tuso and Mr. Sweeney, our uh trust, our president of our friends of the library board and our vice president of our our West Orange public library board, both in the coming out to advocate for our library. They spent
countless hours on this project making that move. Yes, it's not, you know, technically it is in the center of town. Um, we would love to have it. We we try to have it on Main Street even before my time on the council. Wish a developer would have gave us a plan for that, but
that never transpired. So, a developer did um offer us Tenrron Circle and that was, you know, that was the transaction that was made and um I I hope the council can consider a lot of the improvements because it is a need and
it's our building. we do uh collect a revenue on it, potentially additional revenue, and hopefully we'll be able to get that site taken care of. As far as the pickle ball courts, I appreciate the comment uh made by um m Mr. um was it
Hinton? I apologize if I got my notes incorrectly. Uh with the Yes, with the sound engineer. I I know I know something was done with Mr. Kio. they were hitting um testing out pickled balls in the parking lot a year or so
ago or when or two years ago when we passed this um they were out there for quite some time and and having Mr. QB inside or whoever was inside. So I know there was some kind of testing done. I'm not sure it was done by the sound engineer. I'm sure Mr. Kio isn't
credentialed in that way, but um there was some sort of exercise done at the time and he could speak to that at the the next meeting or whenever we we go to uh finalize uh this if that we get that far.
Uh okay. Uh Seth, thank you for speaking tonight. I I been supporting the township planner. I know some people have been disappointed about that. And again, it's a matter of of cost and what
we could get from somebody sitting in the seat. Um, our departments are very very uh tremendously busy and um we need I felt especially the past two years we need somebody in the seat in town hall 5
days a week. So I hopefully we could resolve that. Hopefully tonight we'll resolve the longstanding lawsuit between the mayor and and the prior town council that voted for it and and the the my current with my current colleagues. Um
this needs to be resolved. There's a lot that needs to move forward in this township and I'm looking forward to that. Uh Chanel Jerome, I I got to thank her for coming out here and I apologize because I did not respond back to you,
but I did immediately talk to the chief and I know you're disappointed in in in the lack of what you thought um of response was to you and and rightfully so. Um, again, another reason why we're
looking at this noise ordinance because the way it is written, it it's hard to enforce and there are issues. You clearly heard on her phone this evening and uh my friends over here at at at the from the restaurant, those are a lot of
phone calls I received this past year from from uh your establishment of people, you know, they have it on their phones that they could hear in their living room. So, I'm I'm looking forward to everyone speaking. I've been encouraging that. I think you all should
talk with each other. Um, it's a balance. I always say downtown's a balance. We have a very, very tough downtown. Um, and when you first came to get your liquor license, I remember stating in the ABC hearing, and we have to be careful because we are the ABC
council. And that conversation for my colleagues, u, Mr. Bllandon, just so you know, that was a recent conversation that we had with the our ABC attorney that's not up here this evening. And uh you know, cuz last council connection, I
was not be able to to go there and and a bunch of you came to to advocate uh for your restaurant. And um at that meeting, I believe an attorney was a pre present. So, I thought right away it was an attorney that you already retained, but apparently it was just somebody coming
to support you. So, I had called the attorney cuz, you know, we always have to be careful up here. We wear two hats and and you know, at the end of the day, we don't want to cause a lawsuit for the township because it is your tax dollars. Uh, with that being said, we have to be mindful for what we say. So, um, I'm
going to just say this this evening. I encourage the dialogue with all of you. Um, but it's just not just, you know, one or two folks with complaints. And I've shared this with with the owners in the past. Um, there's folks behind you,
uh, and, you know, when you have the patio open, uh, down the street. There's people that walked by. I campaigned last year and going folks that live down on Kirk Street that walk by the restaurant would hear hear the noise. So, you know,
and it's hard and I know I know talked to Mark a lot and and you've tried to balance it out and try to put, you know, sound uh um whatever you could do to equip the sound with the the noise and acoustics and I appreciate that. But it's something it's not just your
establishment. We do have other establishments in town. It's I guess it's something with the equipment y'all are using with the bass and and whether it's the DJ music or whatever it is. um we're have to deal with it and that's
part of our job because we do have that balance in the community. This isn't Jersey City or Hope Oaken. It's plain old West Orange. So, you have a lot of folks that work two or three jobs uh in the downtown area and that's always been the challenge because we want to make a
vibrant downtown and and folks say, "Well, how you make it vibrant if you don't have music? if you don't have folks coming in and it's not an easy challenge. My board members who I appreciate all their support are here this evening and it h it hasn't been easy. Um but we're going to have to work
it out and neighbors too. Uh have to be you know there has to be communication. So I I'm glad they want to talk to you because you do need to hear hear them and um hopefully this will work out and everybody can move forward because
that's what we have to be. You have great food, Lori. You know, I've been in there. Your food is excellent. Um, you have great uh atmosphere. We always say atmosphere, food, and service are should be the three uh success stories. And um
but this noise issue, quality of life issues is something we've dealt with for many years in the township and especially in that area. So, let's hope hopefully something could be worked out. I would be that would make us all very happy because we want our business
owners to succeed. At the same time, we have to make sure that our residents uh can enjoy their livelihoods as well. So, um I always believe everybody works together, it could get done. And uh
John, you're shaking your head and we've had experiences with successes in the past. So hopefully this will be a positive one as well. With that being said, I think I'm done. Council President, again, thanks thank you everybody for coming out tonight. You sat through a presentation, which I'm glad you did because you saw a lot of
the challenges here in the township and what we have to go through and hopefully you could appreciate uh we what we have to do up here to make it all happen for you. Thank you. Thank you, Council Council Rude. Sure. Um thank you everybody for coming out and for those
who are in the Zoom audience for staying on so long. Um I want to address a couple of issues. Um, let's try and group them all together. Um, Daughters of Israel, I'm really not sure of the appropriateness of the presentation
tonight given the fact that uh they themselves said tonight that they're in current litigation. So, I'm really not sure why why we heard this presentation. Um, I think that this is an issue that um is really appropriate before our land
use boards. Um, and I welcome Daughters of Israel coming back to a land use board and um, getting the appropriate um, clearances that they need from that board. I myself have had uh, my grandmother, my father-in-law, my dear
friends, my friend is there was there last week at Daughters of Israel. I would like it to be a success. However, um they were not approved by the zoning board and the Daughters of Israel really needs to listen to what was said, why
the why the um application was was turned down and to try and come back with something that is more appropriate for the both the residents that are living there right now and future residents and for our community. Um there were lots and lots of issues that
were articulated about why this um was not accepted. And again, I think that this this whole issue is something that goes before a land use board, not before the council. Um as far as um traffic study on um Eagle Rock Avenue, I
couldn't agree more. Um it is really, really bad around that area and we do need an objective traffic study before there are more accidents. It is already one of the most highly um uh congested area in in West Orange
and it really um deserves an open um unbiased look. Um, thank you to um all of the Gregory residents who've come out and um I know there was just one tonight, but I've been in touch with 60
of them on email and I really appreciate their advocacy and I strongly agree that about some issues that that were discussed tonight and we'll we'll get more into that later as as the ordinance has come before us. Um uh Dave uh uh
thank you so much for speaking about the appropriateness or lack of appropriateness about um um trees and how they're being planted. Uh we have before us the bill for the tree planting and I am going to request that my
council colleagues um support me in pulling this bill tonight because I don't think that the bill should be paid until the um job is done correctly. We wouldn't do this in our own homes. have a contractor come and do do a job that
is not approved by us. And we as a township and we as council who are guardians of your purse should also not pay a bill until it's done correctly. Um lots of issues tonight about noise. Um Janelle, I'm sorry that that I did I did
write you back. I don't know if she's still in the audience and also contacted contacted the police about about this issue. I'm sorry that you didn't get the response um that you needed at the time. And we do have a problem with our noise
ordinance. Um it is not being enforced in many areas around town. Um I'm not sure why it's not. We currently have a noise ordinance. We are working here in town to strengthen the noise ordinance for the sake of the community who has
come come before us and told us what the problems are. This is not an an issue that is in one location or in two locations. It's in many locations around town. And that is why we as a council have taken it upon ourselves to try to
um enhance the noise ordinance for the benefits of our community. Yes, we have businesses in B1 districts and the noise hours will be a little bit different and elongated in those areas and the residents who live in there know that it will be. But there has to be some sort
of balance between the communities. Um, as far as the library, couldn't agree more that a lot of these problems could have been solved had we had a planner. We still need a planner. We need an in-house permanent planner. And this is an issue that is really um not being
addressed um because um the mayor has chosen not to hire a full-time in-house planner even though we have had money allocated for this. Um, as far as the blowers, um, I agree. I mean, I think
that, you know, we we need to show some leadership in public health and and safety and we should have have, um, passed the transition to um, electric blowers. I am very sorry that that didn't happen and that this town is is
left unprotected. But you know that that is a an issue that our our council colleague um changed her mind on and um I will continue to advocate for public health and safety for for the township
and I appreciate those who came out to discuss better practices that we can do both in mulching in protecting our environment and in also in in leaf collection. I think that I've focused on I think I've I think I've addressed
everything. So that's the end of my comments. Thank you so much. Thank you. I I just want to check to see if if uh Councilwoman Gabber Michael is is still on the call and wants to perhaps speak. Okay. Just wanted to check. Uh I
want to say thanks to everyone uh for their patience and their input this evening. uh especially uh I appreciate the input uh towards me and my behavior at the last council meeting. I am taking
it in the spirit that I believe it was offered which is that everyone including me wants a better council president and I'm not going to try to defend the indefensible conduct. All I can offer is is my record. I was on the council for
10 years. one of those as council president and uh this this had never come up before. Um it happened obviously at the last council meeting. All I can do is say that I'm sorry and I pledge to do a whole lot better. So thank you for
your input. uh on Daughters of Israel. As as Councilwoman Ruden pointed out, we're in litigation with them and have gotten advice from two different attorneys to not comment on this. And uh so I so I won't uh but I do want to just point out I thought it would have been
better for all of us to have been advised by our affordable housing planner uh that we're trying to get. We still have not been able to reach an agreement with the mayor on this issue and I hope that we will uh have
something a solution uh as as soon as possible uh on the library. Uh I think I've said my fill. We'll see what uh where the council wants to go a little bit later in the evening on Llewellyn uh uh park. I I I'm just uh
shocked and I'm very sorry to hear that anyone would call another human being an animal. I mean, it's just it's just unacceptable. And I'm sorry you have have to go through this. Um I'm I'm glad that there's going to be a meeting and I intend to be there and if I can help I I
will. Uh the Wellen Park is a successful business downtown and we need more of them and we should do whatever we can to be as fair to them as possible. Uh between tonight and the previous time uh we met at uh at Council Connection, uh
Mr. Sharpson, Mr. Thompson have been nothing but gentlemen and and uh uh businessmen. And I I just want to make sure they get a a fair shake on this because there seems to be a real disconnect between the people who are
complaining about them and and uh there and and the Will and Park owners uh their defense. So all I can observe factually is that there's a lot of complaints that have not been upheld, if
I understand correctly, uh once we we meaning the township has sent people out there. But I think it's a really good idea uh for you guys to talk to the mayor or to the business administrator because those are the people that control uh what the township employees
do. It's not the council people. We we can certainly advocate on your behalf, but uh uh they're the ones that that do the directing and guidance. So uh I I hope you uh seek that venue and I hope it's I hope it's fruitful. So, uh,
again, I I think it's great that you guys are finally agreeing to speak. When I when you guys met with us at Council Council Connections, I thought I I learned a whole lot about the other side of the story that I hadn't heard much of. So, so I appreciate you stepping
forward, especially I'm assuming that's your daughter. Uh, you're obviously raising her well, too. Um, we appreciate your your helping out your dad and uh uh let's uh try to move on now uh if I
could. Thank you very much everybody. Okay, Madame Clerk, can I just suggest that we would like to get to the resolution for the executive session and get it to the executive session just as quickly as we
can and then get back just as quickly as we can. Yeah, I would like to address it now. Uh, Councilwoman Scarpa, can you hear us? Yes, I can. Yes. Uh, do you want to uh move forward on the executive session now and get back here just as quickly as
we can. Sure. Whatever everybody wants to do is fine with me. Are you guys okay with that? Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Also, I just want to make you aware that Mr. Williams is here for the
so that Yeah, we can do that because I think that that's another big thing. But, uh, Mr. Monaco has been here a lot longer than Mr. Williams, so I'm going to, uh, defer here, but not here. Oh, he's been here the whole night.
You tell me. Uh, which do you think is going to be faster? I think it's going to be to handle Mr. Williams first for the So, shall we uh Counciloman Castle, don't go away. We need your Okay. Okay. We're trying to figure out our schedule here to get
uh get the lawyers out of here. Okay. So to do this uh madame clerk, we would uh adjourn to go into ABC listen to Mr. Williams. I'm sorry.
Recess. Okay. Okay. As soon as we get Councilwoman Castle back, we'll we'll move on. Mr. Burke, are you aware of what we're we're trying to do? We're going a little out of order just to get a couple few people done. We also found
out engineer from Mr. one of the projects was here. So, it's another person in the Okay. Oh, it's one of the ordinances. Oh, I thought it was a resolution. I'm sorry.
Resolution. Okay. We'll we'll deal with these three as quickly as we can. Just want to let you want to give you that. Ladies and gentlemen, we're trying to uh uh reach a few people who have been here a long time who absolutely have to be here professionally and would like to
leave. So, the first thing we're going to do is to hear a uh a proposal under the ABC board. So, what we're going to do is recess the council meeting as as
the council and then go into the ABC uh board uh and hear the single I guess it's the resolution that's on on the agenda. Correct. So, I need a motion to do so. So, moved. Okay. Thank you. Um
Okay. So, Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. And you have my number, right, to call me? No. This is for the ABC hearing. We're going to the ABC. Mr. Williams is here
for a client. And is somebody going to call me? No. No. This is I will call you. I will call you for the executive session. Yeah. You need to stay on now. Stay on now, please. I'm going to I have to mute this because this is open. Yes, you got to mute it. So, I'll put a thing
up that we're in reset. You're an ABC. No, you could do an ABC here. Yeah, there's no reason why we don't want you. We just normally don't. Yeah, you can stay open. I was just as go on the recording. Yes. Yeah, it's fine. That's fine. Did I
vote? No. Council President, I vote yes. Thank you, sir. Sorry. That's okay. Is Joyce coming back? Mr. Williams. Good evening. Should I wait till councilwoman returns? If you want to, Mr. Williams, you can.
Okay. In the meantime, I'll read the uh the problem is I need you need a quorum. Do we have a quorum? We've got a quorum on the phone. Okay. Good evening, everyone. She should wait though. She uh Robert C. Williams appearing on behalf of BK Lobster West Orange LLC who hopes to trade as Henry House.
This is an application to transfer our existing license. We have a pocket license. We went and opened a restaurant at 161 Main Street in West Orange on the first floor. Along with the application, I submitted a detailed floor plan. As you can see, this is a rather nicely
designed restaurant. Uh it's in the Edison uh development project. Uh we've been working on this now for two years. We finally come to a resolution, hope to move forward. I have with me tonight Mr. Ricardo Henry, who's the sole member of
the LLC, is here to answer any questions that you might have because of the lateness of the evening. Uh I'm not going to go into a long detail, but we had copies of the menus prepared that we hope to have. Um and if you reviewed the
floor plan, you can see that we have an a rather extensive um dining area, full kitchen. We have a bar area and we also have an outdoor courtyard which connects to our restaurant which is part of our
lease. So we'll open to questions. Council Castle. So I've been very excited waiting your arrival but are you are you still coming because I know there was issues. So I there are no
issues now. Okay. So we are coming. we get approved tonight, we'll get our funding together. Obviously, we've had some issues with funding because the license isn't located at this location, but Mr. Henry has verified he's working with the landlord and we're ready to go.
When I last spoke to the landlord, which was the last meeting, you you weren't there yet. Like, you're you weren't coming. Weren't there speaking to the Speak? Sorry. What do you mean by not there? You weren't
you weren't you know you you were stagnant. You you're still you weren't there. You weren't coming. This was like two weeks ago. So now you have a whole plan. We are coming. We have Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, I I just want to make sure that you're coming. I mean, very excited
to have you and want to give you all the support in the world. I understand. But I want to make sure that you're coming. like if you this has been ongoing for the past couple years and it was my understanding from the the landlord that you know there was some issues. I can
assure you we wouldn't be here tonight if we weren't planning to open this restaurant especially staying here over four hours. We need your approval in order to get this operation going. No, I I understand that. I I love to help you out with that. So this will be a
restaurant and you have the menus and what is your hours of operation and do you have any plans for uh any DJ equipment or any such other I'm not there for DJ equipment. I'm only going to have Oh, sorry. I'm not there
for DJ equipment. I'm only gonna have Apologies. All right. Just kidding. Sorry. Well, I'm not there for DJ equipment. Um the restaurant is not made for um DJing or partying. Um, it's going to be music obviously in the background like you'll have in any restaurant you
go to, but we're not there for any DJs or, you know, if there's a special event or something happening, but I would say out of seven days, we're not going to be have having DJs there. What are your hours? Um, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, it was going to be whatever the regular
arrows would be um by the ordinance for West Orange and we would be obliged by that. Okay. As far as the outdoor outdoor cafe, we realize that you do have to get a permit to We realize that we have to comply with all the ordinances of West Orange.
Um, and as recently you're in my opinion, you've changed some of the definitions of what you have to do for outdoor cafes, but we're certainly willing to comply. We understand that under the present one, you have to shut down at 10 o'clock. And I've advised him as proposed. Yes. Yeah. But by the time
we open, that all could be changed. But we're going to comply with each and every ordinance. Mr. Henry, would you like to take advantage, like many of your predecessors, to give us a 30 to 60 second uh commercial on why people should care about you opening your business? It's a it's a free commercial
going to be heard by a lot of people. No problem at all. Um, first I would like to say yes, my name is Ricardo Henry. I have been working on this for two years and getting funding, which has been a little hard on um not having the liquor license there, but um I could definitely say that I'm coming with a Caribbean
Asian fusion, which will be a little bit more colorful for everybody to be able to enjoy. Um I have been a I I've been in the community. I do a lot of community outreach. I own um I do real estate, so I am in the community of
Essis County itself, not just West Orange. I have contracts with the juvenile detention center. I have contracts with the East Orange Board of Education. So, I am a community activist and a community developer as well. So, I am about community basis and I'm looking
to move to West Orange as well. Are you going to maintain the name BK Lobster? No, I will not. That's just the LLC name. We're we're working on finalizing it, right? What is the name of the business? We're working on finalizing the name now
because right now Yeah. Oh, okay. So, oh, go ahead, councilwoman. Sure. Sure. So, it was my understanding that BK Lobster is a franchise that they had
issues with the franchise itself. So, we're not part of it. Okay. We're BK Lobster of West Orange LLC. We're going to trade as Hendrick House and there's no other issues. So I saw HH
your like your logo which is sharp. Is that what you're still going with or you have your logo? I don't we we don't have the logo. Well, I saw the on the one on the on the door. Okay. Obviously, you have to take out a sign permit.
Yes. And it has to be approved by the downtown client. No. No. Listen. The one thing I hope you do is you approve it tonight so they don't have to get any more calls from people that live at the the loft saying, "When are you going to open that restaurant? We want this place open."
He gets it all the time. I get it. They're at the South Orange Barons and they're like, "When are you opening so we could come downstairs?" You do Papons? I do go to Pap South. Oh, you go to it? Okay. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. Not Not that you're on it. Okay. No, no, I just I patron. I I love that place, too. And
with all the businesses in West Orange that are struggling, some that have closed and others that will be closing, we really need this at this project. Yeah. We lost We lost the wine store that's closed. I know. I know. So, we
have a young man who's really accepting a great challenge when the restaurant industry nationwide and more so in North Jersey is really suffering. So, we have we'll have an affordable menu. Uh, as he indicated, we're going to have background music, maybe a DJ
on, you know, a celebration for some type of event. Could be St. Patrick's Day, but we're not, this is not designed that way. I'm telling you just my concern was that it was vacant and when I had last conversation, I apologize. I
did not talk to the uh property owner to today to see where the situation was, but that's why I was hesitant last time asked to be table is because I thought you weren't coming, but yeah. So, are you He's here. He's
coming to West Orange. Mr. Williams, you just mentioned a occasional DJ. What sort of sound system are you thinking of installing? Excuse me. What sort of sound system are you thinking of installing? Well, the sound system will accommodate the background
music. You want to name the brand or No, no, no. I just want to know internal system. Okay. But you just mentioned DJ. Yeah. I said occasionally you may have a DJ. For all I know, for example, on your June 7th, there may be a reason to have a DJ inside. People want to come in and
celebrate all cars. I don't know. It's not going to be a regular item. It's um obviously we have to comply with all regulations and most importantly we're we there's if you look at the plan there isn't even a DJ booth so we're not planning to do this but we
also have to be very considerate of the people that live at the lofts they're our patrons so you know we don't want to be here where our patrons are complaining because they're going to keep us alive and so I I think it'll work. I don't think you're going to have a problem here, especially with the
investment that he has to make to get this store open. Yeah, it looks like a very nice plan. We appreciate that. And one thing I want to tell you though, it says, you know, BK Lobster of West Orange. The cost of lobster is off the charts. It's not on our menu as an everyday item, but we're going to have
lobster specials. So, make sure when we have them, you come down and try them. Absolutely. Thank you. Councilwoman Scarpa, do you have any questions? No, not at this time. Okay, great. Are we ready to move to a vote? Is there a motion? Okay. To approve. I
so move. Need a second. Okay. All right. Hold on a minute. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. On behalf of my I want to thank you and
I want to tell you you look pretty good here for being four hours. I told you we go to 3:00 a.m. I have to tell you you're you're you're troopers here. Thank you and thank you for accommodating. I know we were at the end of the agenda
but you wish we wish you were at the end of the agenda. Yeah. Yeah. We greatly appreciate the accommodation. Good night luck with everything. Good luck and thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Now I need a motion to adjourn the ABC and enter into I make a motion to
adjurnn the ABC and enter into executive session. Okay. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? Any opposed? Okay. The bless you. Motion carries. Now we go into and enter into executive.
I had do I have to log out of here? You don't have to log out, but do you have your cell phone near you? I do. Okay. So, we'll call you. Okay. I'm sorry. Oh, mute. Yeah. Can you Yeah. Can you mute yourself, Susan?
Going into executive sessions back, but I can ask Joe. If you hear anything, tell me and I'll Councilwoman Castleina, Councilwoman Reen, there's a there's a somebody who
was asked to be here. Okay, I'll get her right here. Get her. Thank you. Um, council women, there's uh someone who was asked to be here for one of the resolutions. I don't and I'm not sure whether we need to ask
any questions. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Yes. What resolution? It's resolution 130-25, resolution of award to Smith Sundi Asphalt Construction for roadway improvements, Walker Road, South Valley, and Rooney Circle. And so this
is it's just a standard uh uh RFQ response. They were the low qualified bidder. Uh for some reason he was asked to be here. But is there do we have any questions for him on that on that resolution? Yes. No, I have no
questions. Right. So here's the question on 130. Are we going to vote for it or are we going to vote against it or do we need to ask questions? I was fine. Which what are sorry resolution of award to Smith
Sunday asphalt construction company for the honor to be here? I didn't ask for the honor to be here. So uh councilwoman Scarpa, do you have any questions on resolution 130? No, I don't. Okay, let's let this poor guy go
home. I'm very sorry that you had to Oh, I'm sorry. I thought she said she didn't. No, I I I'm good. I'm good. I'm so sorry. I I'm so sorry. I apologize. Thank you
very annoy this year. Okay, I got a mute. Good evening, West Orange. I just wanted to give you an update. This is Joe Fagan coming to you from council chambers. Uh town council is in executive session as
you see indicated on your screen. I I don't know when they'll be back. They left uh for executive session about 20 minutes ago. I have no indication when they'll be back. Uh but they said that they should be shortly. So uh just hang tight. There's nothing wrong with your
uh with your monitors. Uh the you will be on mute. Uh but town council is an executive session and I'll give you updates as they become available or perhaps they'll be back. Thank you for your patience. Hello, this is Joe Fagen again. I've
just been notified that uh township council is concluding in executive session and should be seated within 5 minutes and the meeting will resume. Thank you for your patience. Welcome back, West Orange, and thank you for your patience. Uh, council has
returned from executive session. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president. Council President, thank you, Mr. Fagan. Uh, sorry about that, West Orange. We are now back. Uh, the first thing we need to do is have a motion to come out of executive session.
I'll make a motion to come out of executive session. I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? I I Okay, the motion is carried. Great. We are now back in session. It looks like we've actually
accomplished two on our public agenda. Is that correct, Madam Clerk? Uh, public com. Yes, sir. Okay. Why don't you take it from there? Uh, and I don't I don't know that we can do the consent agenda
yet only because I think it's best that we address the ordinances or or any resolutions that require Miss uh Carbalo here. Okay. So, the resolutions are part of the consent agenda. So, let's see. She has well
130-25 is 131 132 1334 that's it. Okay. So then therefore we will first address resolutions through the consent agenda. Okay. Um bills. Well oh I'm sorry. Yeah. I was
trying to get I was trying to get to this if we run through it quickly because there's really not too much. Um for the consent it's approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting April 22nd 2025 consent. Thank you. Report of township officers none. Reading of
petitions and communications and bids none. Bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? Yes. I would like to pull some bills. Um the the first bill I that I would like to pull is for a social media
consultant um named Da Stokes who is um evidently working as a um poster, social media poster on the mayor's private Facebook
page. Um she is charging $541 a month. Um, since the mayor has been on uh as mayor, the township has paid $19,000 and400
$19,480 in public funds to pay her. She is a staff member of the uh mayor's privatelyowned preschool. And in my opinion, this is a blatant misuse of taxpayer funds. and
it's deeply troubling. Um I reached out about this in the past when it was first brought to my attention and was told that that the prior um mayor had the same practice. And my answer to that as it will be tonight um is that two wrongs
don't make a right. This is public funding, p public money, and we have a fiduciary responsibility. If the mayor would like to pay for this service for her private um Facebook page, then she should pay for it out of her campaign
political fund. So, I am asking my council colleagues to join me in not paying this bill and in requesting that the mayor reimburse the township $19,000
$19,480 for um this expenditure which never should have been made. Um, this expenditure is a breach of public trust. Um, and I am bringing this to the public's attention in order to bring transparency to how our funds are being
used. So, I would like to ask if my council colleagues who are here and on the phone would join me in supporting um my my request that the mayor pay back all of this money to the township out of her own personal political campaign
fund. Yeah, I have to agree. It's a clear conflict. So, that's what I would ask. Uh, Councilwoman, I would ask, what is the specific ordinance or law that you believe is being violated here? This is not a governmental page. This is a
personal Facebook page. It does not serve for governmental purposes and therefore it is not being used appropriately. the the Facebook page that you say is personal. Is it is it a Facebook page for Mayor Susan McCartney? Yes, it is.
That's her personal Facebook page. If she wants to run it, she can run it through her political campaign funds. Okay. If you or I had a Facebook page, we could not use public funding to have somebody else post. We would pay somebody privately. So the only thing we
have to check I hear you and I I wouldn't personally do it but I know in other towns and especially cities they do do that. Um so I don't know legally. I you know if it's an ethical problem
well if it's not you think it's ethical council woman there and there's legal. I'm just saying I'd like to get a read on on it from legal counsel. I'm not sure if our council here tonight can make a comment or
I I'd like to just add something else. Be happy to look into it if the council would like. Hold on just a second. There's also another problem which is this has gone beyond the the limit where you would require um public um it's 44. It's no I know but it's over it's it's
19 which ra which raises some other issues in terms of disclosure. If I agree this p practice should stop ASAP. So, I'm just going to interject real quick. I believe this is the mayor's Facebook page, the mayor of West Orange, not Susan McCartney. Um,
and if it is 541 a month, that does not exceed the 17,000. That may be a total 19,000 since she's been in office. So, it doesn't it doesn't go past the the threshold of 175. And and if if it's 540, I don't know what the number is now. It's under 6600. It's, you know,
right? I'm part of the CFO. So, 6600 is the quote threshold. 175 is the paytoplay. Um I I think the total is from the time that uh Miss Stokes um was hired by the township and that's over
the course of multiple years. So, so let me get this straight. The township has actually hired her. Well, she's a vendor, so you know, we're we're paying her as a vendor. So, I say we I shouldn't have said hired. Contracted.
It's late. Okay, you're right. Contracted with her or or utilize her as a vendor. She is not an employee. I should not have said hired. And there is no contract. The PO being the contract. So, we pay her with a PO. Okay. It's 36 months.
It's a 36-month period for the $19,000. Well, the public should know that this is an inappropriate use of their taxpayer dollars and I would I would like to see this practice stopped and the entire amount reimbured. So, I'm pulling this if I I'm
would like your support in this. We are we are um the guardians of the public trust and we are to watch spending and this is this is a waste of taxpayer money. Besides the fact that
almost all of these posts are are just a repost of what is on 07052, you know, I don't know why the mayor can't do that herself. I would have to agree. So, wholeheartedly.
Yeah, I hear you. My issue is she followed the practice of the fire mayor and as a former council from the other former councils that allowed that, you know, um I don't know, it doesn't bother
me as much. But if it's something we want to talk about in the budget and get rid of the budget line, then do it that way. But I'm not going to make her pay it back. I just think that, you know, at that this point, if you don't want that practice moving forward, that's one
thing, but to make her pay it back is I I just think um I don't feel comfortable with that. She can pay it out of her political campaign. She has plenty of money in her political campaign and that's what it used for. I'm not saying that she shouldn't be
paid if she's providing a service, but what budget should it be? Wait, wait, you got to be one at a time, please. And also just in response to the prior mayor mayor did it. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. I don't know why the prior council didn't didn't notice this and
didn't question it. But now I've noticed it. I brought it up last time. I said that if this comes back, I'll make another issue out of it. If it comes back again, I will again. Okay. It's, you know, we have the responsibility to watch watch the spending.
I just want to say also there are many practices that I've watched go on for decades that are not in the taxpayers's best interest and we should not continue with them just because they've been done for a decade.
Right. Uh Mr. Diniac, Mr. Burke, is is there any anything within the council's responsibilities that allows us to do this? So this council has pulled bills in the past. Um that's what you're referring
to. Yes. Just so you have have pulled bills in the past. We were just conferring about um the procedure. Um I'll let uh Mr. Burke speak to whether there's a vote on the individual pull or not. So
yeah, I'd recommend either making a motion and voting on pulling this or making a motion voting and pulling on all the bills that you want to pull al together and then approving the remaining bills as as okay another motion. Okay. So the other the other bill that that I would like to pull is
the bill for Frank Galbreth and Sun Excavation. We heard discussion tonight from the um public about the improper methods used to plant trees. Um there were other comments that were not made
tonight that that um I received in terms of um multiple trees being planted on Colmore Avenue, 30 in a row on one side. Um whereas other other areas of the town are left, you know, empty. maybe they're
coming in the future, but it does not seem like a best practice. So, until this the practice is corrected and is done, um you know, uh the forester said that that this practice would be corrected. Until it is corrected, I
would like to hold on paying the the bill and I'm asking for support on on that issue as well. I would support that as well. So, I have a question for administration, please. So I just want to ask administration where is this at because obviously all
these trees were planted. Uh Mr. uh Kip went back. Uh he did note that they were done improperly. So where we at with it? What's what's what's next? Okay. So So
we received the one complaint from one one resident and and from the council woman. Um, no other complaints were received that I'm aware of. Um, and the same gentleman who complained was also here at the podium tonight. That action I spoke to Mr. Kip last week. He assured
me that that that it was going to be corrected. I also forwarded everybody tonight the procedures that how the trees were planted and that he's going to ensure that all of the um trees are planted properly and they will check on them. Um, and in addition, Mr. Gworth
actually donated to the town an additional 40 trees between 35 and 40 trees my my understanding. I don't know the exact amount but um so this is being addressed by our forester and we will be looking at it. I'm just giving you the facts and if you choose to hold payment
that's up to you but I just wanted to give you the facts that that were presented to me and and if you I believe the email was sent to you this sometime this afternoon from Mr. Kip. Mr. Kip also extended an offer um that I think there's some trees that still are going
to be planted that if anybody would like to go out with him and I encouraged it that and I think and I sent it to everybody last Friday. If you want like to go out I would contact Mr. Kip and um he would extend an invitation so they can see how see how the procedure is
done. So uh I'm just letting you all know that. Okay. Thank you. Again uh Mr. Diniac, Mr. Burke, is this this sounds like a a more appropriate action for the council to take on a bill in which we have
identified uh either actual and/or potential problems with the service that was provided. So I can I can understand withholding payment until we certify or somehow confirm that they've done it right. because that's council president
that that's correct and and in fact um you know your your colleague Raone Rivera echoed that same sentiment a few meetings back as being one of the appropriate reasons for withholding a bill. So I agree with you on that. Okay. So, I I I know uh Councilwoman Ruden
keeps bringing this up and and there's to me there's one part of this which is to vote to not pay the bill and then there's a second part which I think is somehow determining that the council has
within its legal purview to take the additional step that Councilwoman Ruden is suggesting on the first item which is to literally stop payment. uh as as inappropriate. So, Mr. Burke, I think you said you're going to have to
research that. Yeah, I'm going to look into whether there's a legal issue there. Okay. So, I think I think the the issue of of um the mayor hiring somebody in her from her own personal school should also be looked into.
Well, I'm not sure who would look into that. Uh but Mr. it I can't imagine that favoritism certainly the whole situation suggests quite a bit but I I want to try to focus on what are legal responsibilities and
authorities uh here to do that. So if you could report back to the next uh at the next meeting or even before if you want to send us an email. Certainly. Okay. Does that does that sound good, Counciloman? But until such time, I would like to hold the bills. Yes, definitely. So, let's let's take a vote
on these on uh withholding payment and holding on to the bills uh until at least the next uh council meeting. Yes, I do have wait. I'm sorry. Council, I have one more question in regard to the bill for um Savo Shaw, Corsini, and
Warner. I see that we are paying um 2024 according to the his his rate of 195 an hour. I just want to make sure that for January, February, and March and April of this year that Mr. Warner has not
been paid more than the contracted rate with the new contract that he signed. And I would like to see ask why that contract is not Oh, I guess it's under under the the limit. Okay. So, I'll have to get back to you on on
the uh the updated contract rate. I I I couldn't tell you right now. So, well, on the bills that are before us, are there any for 2025 there? I mean, there are professional services for January 2025 on there. Okay. So, what is the is
that out of escrow? I see I see a bill for Um it says township township litigation and professional services. No, actually the 25 of us are they're escrow. Um so it it's just the
non-escrow is back to the 2024. Okay. Because it says January 2025 professional services. It says budget town council OE for the 201613. We looking at the same one for 2025 on
the third page. I look at it from the vendor perspective. Yeah, I can tell just looking at the bill list. Um I mean really it's it's canceled out. So I I I I think
they voided it out because there's the negative 2613 and then the 2613. So they voided it out. Um it's just the 2024 bills. It's just escros. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, they they voided out that
the uh current year operating. Um so that's all I have for these bills, but I have bills so so we can just close this whole issue out. But I I do have issues from prior council meetings where I've asked the same questions over and over
and still feel that I have not gotten an answer. Councilwoman Ruden, I I applaud your efforts, but we just can't be taking up so much time at a council meeting, particularly one tonight on this over
and over again where I I I don't think there's anything, you know, that violates OPMA, uh, for you guys to get together in between council meetings. I I have I have literally tried this entire time going back and forth with
with emails. I it's not for lack of trying to get to get the answers. I'm just not getting that. And Councilwoman Ruden, I just sent you an email tonight and I asked you on Friday, please come to my office. We'll sit down. It's I'd rather sit face to face with you, have a meeting, and anybody you need in there,
I'll pull them in there. Going back and forth in emails doesn't do us well. We all have a lot of work, too. You fire off a lot of emails. I have a lot of people do a lot of work. So, if you want to have a one-on-one, I'm willing to sit down any single time. you'll get more accomplished and we'll probably get more
accomplished in one meeting than we will in 25 emails. I'll take you up on that offer, but I don't understand why simple questions can't just be answered. Because you're not the only person asking the questions. There's, you know, I'm I'm I'm not being facitious. I'm
just saying you you're indeed a council person. You deserve all the attention. You deserve all the information that you need to to uh do your job. But he he's also got other council people and all kinds of other stuff coming at him. So it's it's it's you you understand you
understand. But I I I think if you'll take him up on the there's at least an opportunity that that this might be more fruitful. I absolutely will. I I reached out to everybody after last Thursday with the exception of Councilwoman Gabra Michael. She's under the weather which
her and I have a meeting scheduled also. and I'm here to offer myself up to meet with everybody so that we can have a one-on-one a dialogue and everything else. So, I I I would like to do that and and um for and I and I extend that offer to everybody. So, and and I'm not
saying that you shouldn't come to the council to announce it because I'm sure there are people out there who want to hear, you know, your success, but just to take a half an hour, 45 minutes to do this every council meeting is just uh
it's something that if we can avoid, I'd like to try to avoid it. Diligently try to avoid this. I I know you had because I've seen a lot of the emails. I probably haven't seen them all, but give give it a shot here with uh with a face to face and see if that uh fixes the problem. And I know it's frustrating for
you. It's uh uh and I applaud what you allowing me to to do the job that I that I was elected to do. Councilwoman, I I extend that because this is my day five in this position, but let's get off Let's get off on the right foot. I'm not trying to
be funny. I'm You're right. You're right. and I'm I'm you know let's get off to the right on the right foot and let's let's work together and I'm I'm extending that to you. So let's let's do that and and please come see me. Okay. Just saying. So have we have we voted to
uh appropriately on these three bills? I'm not sure we need to vote on the third one, but do we need to vote now that we've identified two of them? I I think Councilman Ruden, the third one you're asking just to check and confirm. Yes. the number. So, we're not going to
withhold that at this point. No. Okay. So, so we should do make a motion for the two that you would like to pull. We should do them separate. I I just move to pull them and then if there's anything else in the consent agenda, we need to pull out. Okay. I I make a
motion to to pull um the payment to Frank Galbreth and to Da Stokes. A second. Second. Oh, we got a second. Okay, we take a vote. And what would
this be back on if if this is resolved the next meeting, which was the 14th or in two weeks? So 20th. The 14th is a budget workshop. Okay. Yeah. So we'll put these back on for the
the bill is for the 20th, correct? They'll just go back on. Okay. So I'm going to take a roll call vote. Councilwoman Castelino to pull. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Kokoviac,
yes. Okay. All righty. As for the rest of the bills, oh, do I hear a motion to I'll make a motion to approve the rest of the bills. Well, we don't need a motion. I just need a consent. Consent. Oh, yeah.
Consent. Resolutions. Are there any resolutions being pulled this evening? Oh, resolution. Uh, yes. I had I had one. Oh, no. No resolutions. No resolutions. Sorry. Okay. Thank you. I have
a I have a comment on on 134. Okay. And I have a question on 134. Okay. Perfect. I I have a comment on 132. And thank
you and a comment on 134. Oh, right. That's three of [Music] you. Just call me. No. Yes, correct. Y.
Okay. So, do you want to go through the comments? Yeah, let's start with 132. All right. It's a 13225 resolution authorizing a memorandum of understanding between the township of West Orange and the county of Essex with regards to the installation and maintenance of rectangular rapid flashing beacons at
crosswalks at the intersection of Gregory Avenue and Orange Heights Avenue within the rights of way belonging to the county of Essex. Councilwoman Ruden, you have a question or comment. Yes. um or this the the residents have asked
for an additional crosswalk and I'm wondering if that if that can be added. I think they said this southside is is going to be done on on um Gregory and they wanted the north side or the other way around. So, can you address that please?
So this is a typical um resolution or memorandum of agreement between the township and the county. And this is basically just to take responsibility for the township over the uh you know rapid flashing beacons for
the push buttons for the pedestrian crossings not for the crosswalk. If the crosswalk is to be constructed, then it will be under the responsibility and maintenance of the county, not the township. That's the reason why they're not mentioning here. This is basically what the
township will be responsible for. And if they somebody hits them or they break and they need to be replaced, we are responsible for replacing them. Got it. Thank you. Okay. Can we move on to the next one or I think so. Council Ruden is that okay
134-25 resolution authorizing the submission of an application to the New Jersey Department of Transportation Transportation Alternative Set aside Program 2025 for the Pleasantale Street Skate Project. Councilwoman
Castelino asked to be Yes. So, uh I want to thank the director. She answered my questions earlier on this and uh it's very exciting for this intersection that needs this uh streetscaping. However, I
just want and ask of administration is we're going to go ahead and and do this uh hopefully streetscape project uh and get the grant. But my question is
wait I knew Mr. Soraldo. I'm sorry. Sorry. No, that's okay. So, I'm excited for this project in this area. Okay. But here's here's the the thing. The gas station, the service station on that corner there on Pleasant
Valley Way. I I don't even know the name of it. Um, it houses a lot of vehicles that definitely are against the ordinance. And this has been an issue, ongoing issue. I want to make sure we take care of this and deal with them
accordingly because here we're going to have all this work done in this area and it's like an eyesore. So I will let I'll be making snow. Okay. Thank you. Thank you,
Councilwoman. Councilman Ruden. Yes. Um, I would like to understand why this resolution says the township of West Orange has designed the Pleasantale Streets Skate Project when there's been no design. That's correct. There hasn't been no
design, but this is basically the template that is given to us from NJ DOT to apply for the grant step one. This is this is a basically the you know a boiler plate. It is not for me to change it. Just like I for the resolution
awarding the uh the contract to Esitis Sunday for the construction at Valley at South Valley Road. There's also a bowler tempered plate. I cannot change it. This is not a resolution that I wrote. They basically highlight for you in yellow what you need to input.
Okay. I'd also like to ask that should we get funding from this, will you be including um the residents who work in the Pleasantale area and who live in the Pleasantale area for their feedback on how to best design this? Well, so that
you know the process for every single one of the TAB grants, which is no different than the Washington Street corridor, we do have what is called a pick meeting, which is a public information meeting with the businesses and the residents. And if I'm not mistaken, when we did it, a lot of the uh businesses from the downtown did come
to uh council chambers and we met with them and the consultants and we explained the pro the project to them. And will that be in a council meeting or a separate meeting? That will be a separate meeting. Okay. It's a it's a public meeting just like this one and we have to advertise it. Okay. And I would
also like to request that pedestrian safety be involved in this as well. They always are. And I guess I have a question. Uh, Councilwoman Scarpa, do you have any question on this uh 134? No, I don't. Okay. I I just when I first read it, I
got really excited because there's a lot of people that can benefit from it. Uh, the work, the streetscape work on Pleasantale Avenue, I mean Pleasant Valley Way. Uh but from what you're saying, we don't know yet what we would
deliver and we won't know unless we get the grant and then can pay for the design and whatever it's going to Okay. So I'm not going to ask you to describe it because there doesn't really exist yet. I tell you what I have the application or the concept plan that it was created
in my in my office is basically we're providing uh street capes which is basically consist of lighting which is right now is relatively none along valleyway the project will be from Greenwood Avenue to Kent's terrace we
are going to be providing bus shelters replacing basically the ones that are there or adding new ones we're also going to be providing planters benches is for the residents to sit. Um trees, there's going to be a good number of trees to be planted. We're also going to
be providing crosswalks at the intersection of Eagle Rock Avenue and Pleasant Valley Way. Um they already have crosswalks. Yes, but it would be like the brick pavers, you know, to make it more aesthetically pleasing. I will say we're appealing to the to the public. And the same thing, we're going
to be doing new crosswalks along Greenwood as well as Kent Terrace and I think is the other Crossing Street. I can't remember the name, but that's pretty much it. And this will happen if we get the grant. It will happen if we do get the grant. Um, and
the beauty of this grants, the TAP grants, so that everybody knows, is 100% funded by the federal government for the design and 100% funded for the for the construction and the inspection. So, it's like it doesn't cost the township anything. It's just one of those grants
that I will say baby steps. It takes time. Yeah. A couple years, too, before it happens. Okay. I think we've uh covered all the resolutions. Yes, sir. All right. Is there a motion to approve the consent
agenda? Thank you. Is there a second? A second. Thank you. All in favor? Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented. On to ordinances on second
and final reading. 20 20. Go ahead. I just want to make a recommendation. Council president. Is there any other questions for uh our director so she could go home? I think there's there's one uh there's on the first on first reading there's uh one for the town
engineer that's uh uh assigned to her but I think that's the only one two there's three oh yeah I had I had some questions on um 2911
the uh OPAC yeah that's Mr. Ordinances on first are 29 22 23 and 24 director Carbalo. I don't mind going out of order together. Huh? Yes. So uh let's let's address um 2911 which is an
ordinance on second and final reading. Uh right if if we're agreed and uh Councilwoman Scarpa has a question or questions. Yeah, I am concern excuse me councilwoman. I need to do have a motion and a second to introduce on second and
final reading. I'll make a motion to introduce. Second. I'll second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. Okay. The motion carries. Now go
on. Councilwoman. Yeah. I have um a well some questions and some concerns. Um, I put a call in to Nick, but I Algroino, but I hadn't heard back. I just want to make sure that the security systems that are in
here are really adequate and will do the job. Um, I think that's very dark and I know there's some issues up there and I just want to make sure that we've got what we need there. Also, um, I can't uh
agree to these a these ADL chairs. I take the seniors to Ozac. They've often been offered to sit in the back there on the cement and they insist they would prefer to bring their own chairs down and sit in the front. I've also brought
Frank Graasso who's in a wheelchair and he wheels himself right down to the front. Um I don't I just think that this looks like could be a waste of money. I mean, I'd rather see some trees planted there.
When I'm there, I've seen families go up on the hill and go to try to sit under a shade tree. So, I just have some um issues, you know, that before I would be able to vote for this that need would need to be uh ironed out. Okay. So, I'm
going to answer your question. So, I spoke with Mr. Director, Bill Kho, earlier this afternoon. And so that you know the seating that is being proposed it will be proposed on the slope the front area which is grass in close in close proximity to the stage that will
be left as is basically. So rolling the uh wheelchairs to the front or having their own seats shouldn't be a problem or an issue with that. Uh with regards to the security cameras, when we had a meeting with the consultant, the uh
director and his assistant of recreation actually providing them the names of all the uh vendors that they use and for other facilities where everything could be interconnected. So that is also in the works. Does that your questions or your
concerns? No, I I I would like to know the cost of these chairs or whatever they are. I it just does not seem it seems like an inappropriate use of the money. I'd rather see it better spent. Well, you got to understand something. I will refer this then for you to reach
out maybe to the administration and then maybe have a conversation with the director of recreation because this is not uh 100% my project. Um I also have to listen to the needs of other departments for every single one of the infrastructure projects that we do. Uh
so that you understand this is a million dollar grant that will not be costing anything to the township. As of right now we have received $250,000 upfront. You not I mean and typically and I'm going to be very honest with everybody on the record that is really unheard of. Typically we have
to spend our money and then we get reimbursed. And right now we have to spend this money. There is a period of time in which this money needs to be spended otherwise we're going to lose the grant. So Mr. Kho's idea was to provide some you know seating in the
back within the slope for residents whether your opinion or mine or anybody else in here if it's a good expenditure like once again that is not my decision to make right I appreciate that but we want to make sure that every tax dollar
is well spent and meets the needs of the residents. I understand. How much how much money is this going to cost us these chairs right now? Everything is under design. I actually reached out to our consultant
and as you understand it takes it takes time for this to be designed. We had a one of our first meetings I would say sometime in January. I've been working with them. Then we met with him again a second time to go over all these amenities and all this um extras I will
say that we that you know the department of recreation was asking for. So it does take time. Once I have a number or once you know I have a preliminary engineers estimate I will sit down with the administration. Well, I would vote for it if we could
take out these chairs and then if you know we determine we need to put them back in later, but I would like to see that. I don't think that's a substantive change. Give a shot. No, just give me a second. I'd like to make a motion to strike the chairs.
Okay. Can Can you hold that? Counciloman, can you just hold on so we can continue to discuss this and then and then you can make your motion. Sure. Is that okay? Yeah, no problem at all. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino has uh the floor. Yeah, I I know that I know our BA wants to speak, but Councilwoman, I'm
gonna ask you not to to to take back your motion, and here's why. So, you'll have an opportunity to to vote on the for the vendor for whatever comes up. You're also the liaison, so you could also spend some time with Mr. Kio going
over your concerns. um you know seating there on a pad that's already there I don't think is such a terrible idea I think somebody will sit there maybe not the group that travels with you but there's plenty other folks that attend Ozact and I'm
sure they may uh like the seating because not everybody wants to drag a chair there. Um also my other question for the administration was um and I'll address this with Mr. Kio. I just wanted to make sure there was some lighting in there for the crosswalks
from the parking lot. Uh there will be some lighting actually. We discussed this with the consultant and instead of having like you know ballers or anything like that actually thinking about adding lights to the actual um building itself and the way it will like project. So
this would be uh where the streets at. We're actually we've been asked to put a official crosswalk in there. So where you cross the street midway um where the stairs. So where you park below like we across the street from where the actual
site is is the parking lot. So you walk up like they're like two steps people. It's very dark there and people tend to trip. The kids at night the volunteers shine a flashlight on the staircase for folks. So I would just recommend Mr. Kio knows the spot. I would recommend that
we also throw some kind of lighting there with this project. I will talk I will speak to Mr. Kho on that aspect and see what we can do to add it to the project. Okay, Mr. SMaldo. So, council council president and members of council. I I think we're overthinking
this right now. This is just to approve the million dollars we're going to be giving the state. The design hasn't been done. So, we can take into account I also have something from Mr. KO2 where it basically says that the uh the question was please specify the
details of proposed ADA accessible seating including size so on so forth. Seating would be at the rear exit of the seating area so not to block the view of the stage for other attendees. Stadium seating refers to rows of actual seats not flat bleachers. Frames and hardware will be metal seats uh will be metal and
seats will be plastic. We anticipate three to five rows to accommodate 25 to 40 seats only in that area. Seating structure will be placed on asphalt surface with ample additional space for wheelchairs. Paired the pad will be connected to the entrance by an asphalt
walkway as per ADA requirements. Routine inspection and maintenance including a power washing at the start of each season. So what we're trying to do is just get this ordinance passed so that we can go out to bid. That's what we're trying to do. The design comes after the fact and every single comment that is being here can be addressed when we go
out to the bid. So I but we are this is the this is the one ordinance that we have until December. We only have until December to get this completed. So So we're what we're asking for you tonight is to approve us to get the money so we can get you the design so we can go out the bid and then bring it back to you to
award the bid to get this project completed based on all the comments here today. I have for you. Can I ask is it a substantive change to strike the chairs? Not quite yet. We haven't finished commenting. I will I'll bring that back up, Councilwoman. Okay. Is that lang is
that language regarding the chair's part of the bid that is going out? No, we haven't even done the bid to go out yet. That's that's what I'm trying to say to you is that we haven't even we haven't even finished the actual bid yet. So, if you don't want those chairs in, we could tell the director. if you don't want
something else and we can tell we can put this together to go out to bid. What we're asking for you now is just give us the authority to create this bid spec and and then and then go out. That's what we're asking your authority. So if you don't want a stage, we won't put in a stage, you know. I mean, we'll
just put it, you know, we're going to we're going to do what what we're trying to do is put together this project with a million dollars and get it completed by December because of the time frame and and uh and we'll build it what we can we can collaborate and figure out how we can make this work and I and I
will make sure that I'll tell the director to do so at zero cost to the township. Yeah. At zero cost to the township. Yeah. My question remains is you know how much does it cost and can we strike it? Can I I is it a sub change? Councilwoman again I
cannot tell you the cost of the because we haven't bid did the bid specs yet. So we can't tell you what the cost is. So So can legal tell me whether we can strike it? Is it a substantive change? Why don't you want shares for people? I don't understand this. Why why would you
want shares? Mr. Burke I think uh council yeah I the way that it's written I would say it's not substantive because it's included but not limited to and then it lists a few things there right exactly that's how I read it c can I make a comment for someone
who's loved chairs around at opact at night when you clean up do you really need to I mean seriously do you really need to can we just move on if if you insist on doing it I I'll let you I'll let you talk but I I don't know how it's going to change anything well well because councilwoman I want you to talk to your board and your committee because
those people lug chairs in and out of there folding chairs. It would be nice to have some seating. I mean like no one brings a a chair. Please. Councilwoman Cast Councilwoman Scarpa, could you please let her finish? Yeah, sure. I I I
mean, I think you you really need to sit with your board and and have a a good conversation because these volunteers are lugging folding chairs in and out. people sit there, people don't have a chair. I personally have taken chairs to
give to people to sit. I I really think you're making a mistake on this and overthinking it as as as our BA just stated. So, I just want you to reconsider, talk to your board, approve this tonight, and then fix what you We
can always put it back in. I'd like to just take it out. We can always put it back in if we all think it's something that needs to be done. We don't. We can take the chairs out. Have a second either. We'll take the chair. We can take a vote. We can take a vote on it. She's asking us to do a motion. Before we before we get to the motion because I think we've drained the subject. I just
want to let you know I spoke with Miss Dorenzo who manages the the site and she I believe spoke with uh Mr. Kio and I still don't know exactly where these these seating would be, but Miss Dorenzo
says that that is whatever she talked to Mr. Kio about she was uh uh it was acceptable to her. It was agreeable to her. So I don't know if that as well. I'm sorry I couldn't understand you because I was speaking. Could you now Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were
finished. I did speak with Camille. Yes. And so did I. And she came back and said she spoke to Kio and she was fine with what they were proposing. And this was late today. We have been in contact with the Ospac
stage Camil and she she has sent us emails of everything that they want for the staging the flooring vendor and everything. So yes, so I think we've drained the subject. Uh councilwoman uh Scarpa, do you want to make a motion please? Yes. I'd like to make a motion
to strike the chairs and then I could feel Kai can vote for it. Is there a second? I second. Here's my problem. If you strike the chairs, I I don't want to lose the money. You could get something else for the site. You can get trees. You plant
trees. Well, and of course, the problem with trees is if you put them there so people can can sit under, you can't see around them. No, you put them around the back. There's plenty of spots to plant trees there. And you could get trees and chairs. I I I just think you guys need
to go lug the chairs and volunteer your time up there. All right. So, so we have a motion on the floor. There's a second. Councilwoman Castelino to remove. No. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak,
no. Motion fails. Okay. I would like to request that this plan, whatever it is, before it is finalized, is reviewed by the planning board as required by local municipal Sure. land use law. I'm fine with that.
Um, council president. So we need to do a public hearing. Okay. Do we need to do a public hearing if no one is here? Have to at least call for it just to go through the motions. Okay. So now we are talking about
uh we now is the time for the public hearing on proposed ordinance 2911-25 capital ordinance appropriating $1 million to pay for various improvements and upgrades to the Oscar Shinda Performing Arts Center in the township of West Orange in the county of
Essex. also to make a few improvements on uh uh Crystal Lake, which is the installation of two fishing docks similar to the docks the dock at
um DNE Park. So this is the time if anyone would like to speak at the public hearing, please come forward, state your name and address, and you have five minutes to address this issue and no other issue. Do I hear anyone who'd like to have the
public hearing? Seeing none, I close the hearing. Okay. Any further council discussion? Yes. Can I can we include in here that this will get a a review by the planning board? It's not required. It is it's a bond
ordinance. It's it but be inappropriate to put in there for the bond when this comes back. I would like Okay. Uh is there a motion to approve 2911-25? So move. Is there a second? Second.
Councilwoman Castle. I'm sorry, Council I mean, Madam Clerk. I just want to clarify this. Because this is a capital ordinance as opposed to a bond ordinance. Does it still require four votes because we only have Right. There's no authorized debt. So So do we
need four votes or just three? This particular one would just be three. That's what I thought. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Just wanted to be sure about that before we vote. Please go ahead. No, that's okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Uh yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman
Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Great. What other What others do we have? I see an ordinance down here on first reading. Uh 2223 and
22223. I'm sorry. 2923 and 2924 are all director Carvalo and 25. I'm sorry. 24. You're you're right. I apologize. That was 234. Okay. So, we're going to skip over to that. Yeah, let's
do that and then and then uh director can leave. Okay. So, 20 2922-25 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-29.1 speed limits in general of the
revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange. Uh is there a motion to introduce first meeting? Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman
Scarpa, yes. Council President Kakovia, yes. The motion carries. Can we have discussion? Yeah. Okay. It's first reading. We usually don't. All right. But I'd like to make it I'd like to make a change to this ordinance.
We want to change. Okay. So the the ordinance um specifies hours um that it's 20 miles and then hours when it is uh I guess 25 miles and I would like to just eliminate
the hours. I think it's very confusing. I think people don't walk around with the watch, you know, or looking at their clock or or anything. And it should just be 20 20 miles per hour in that whole zone at all hours. So that you know
there's other ordinances in chapter 29.1 for different schools also that is also at certain hours and it's typically just the hours of operation of the school I think. So and the same thing in the area and it's not only for Gregory school but it's also on the areas of like Lowel
Avenue school. So I just try to be consistent with what is already in the ordinance. Okay. I think we should change all of those areas. I think it's very confusing. people are not looking at their at their clocks. Have to rewrite an entire ordinance and I could bring that to the board on a later date.
Okay. This is something that we would need to check too. Let's see if there's any mistakes in here either. I mean, I don't know. It seems like a very small change just to keep it at 20 miles per hour in the zone in the school zone
instead of using at all times. It's hard to go 20 miles. No. When you come into the zone, you you see the sign, and when you leave the zone, you see the sign. It's much more confusing to have this on different times. It's all on the same street. You
You can see a sign that says 20 miles hour and then you'll see a sign when it when the speed limit is raised. It seems like a a prudent safety measure. I don't know. We do have we do have signs that say no turn on red between 4
and six. I understand. So, I'm just saying it's a safety issue. I mean, just to the director's point, if she has to if it that happens, we're going to have to pull it and redo it all over again. And if we're trying to get this on the books, as quick as possible. It's just going to be a delay. That's all. Because
you got to remember, we have a May 24th meeting. uh council May 20th and council can cancel the June 10th meeting and then we won't go till June 24th. So this this and then 20 days after so this this will not be in place until after school's over. Just throwing it out
there by the time frame. I'd like to ask council if this is a substantive change that that can't be addressed very quickly tonight. Just keep it consistent throughout that zone. You can amend things on a first reading like this, but I I won't be able to opine on whether or not there's a legal requirement that the
speed limit be this way or anything like that without being able to look into it further. I I like the idea that we will change all of the days all of the uh locations in the ordinance at some near future um
event. But I'd like to I think it would be easier if we just put this through and uh change it at some other some other point if that's what the council would I would also need to ask the county if they want that also because as far as I know because Gregory Avenue is
not a township roadway it's a county roadway. But you already have it as 20 miles an hour. They don't request that please please one one at a time seven days a week at all times. Yeah they're not going to agree to that. I still need the permission of the county engineer. Okay. Well, I I spoke
with the residents from that area and that's what they that's what they wanted and they spoke tonight about that. I know and I understand and I have met with the residents as well and I know they also wanted 15 miles per hour last year when we met with the county engineer and the county engineer said no and in the recent meeting that we have
with him, he agreed to give us the 20 miles per hour which is the reason why I put this ordinance together. Okay. Ready to vote? Are we ready to vote? We voted. Oh, that's right. So, but but
um Councilwoman Ruden has the the right to ask for uh a vote on her uh proposed amendment. I don't know whether that's what she wants to do or not. Yes. Yes. You want to vote on it tonight? Yes. So, I would like to make an amendment that the 20 mph speed limit
within the Gregory zone um be consistent throughout that entire zone at all hours. Um I thought the director said that she had to speak to the county about that before. You got to get permission. Yeah. Because it's a county road. Well, I don't mind her asking again if if
all they could say is I mean, you could vote, but it may it might be meaningless because they might just say we're not doing that. Would you like the town engineer to speak to the council? Yes, of course, and I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so we've approved that.
Next item, Madame Clerk. 2923-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, traffic subsection 7-37.1B, municipal parking yards, metered parking, permit parking, time limited parking. Is there a motion to
introduce on first reading? So moved. Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Any discussion
or can we move on? Public hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. This is still second. I apologize. Sorry, that's first. I take back that apolog just a quick question for the the director on 23 29. Sure. So with this
with the tax maps I mean anything with like Google maps this translates to I mean in regards to with our parking lots. The changes for this ordinance were basically u the blocks and lots. Yeah.
in accordance with the revised tax maps and a lot of the lots were actually uh combined as one lot and also the changes for the existing uh library next door that is no longer ours because we moved
to Ten Rooney Circle. Okay. Okay. I mean the addresses Yeah. It goes by address not by the lot of blocks. Yeah. A lot of the addresses are you're not going to find them on Google Earth or Google Maps. Okay. We don't have to worry about that when we change the tax map. Okay. Yes. It's basically what is in the tax
records. Okay. Thank you. You welcome. Everybody else good? I I think we are. I think we're ready for 2924. Okay. An ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 20 streets and sidewalks and subsections 20-1 at SEC of the revised
general ordinances of the township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading? So moved. Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion
carries. Any question or comment? This is this is uh to give uh the town engineer more authority in guiding uh public works contractors. and she believes and it makes a compelling argument that this will improve uh uh
product the the benefit to the township. Did I get that? That's correct. We've been having too many contractors that in my opinion some of them are not very experienced when it comes to sanitary sewers. A perfect example is the emergency repair that we had on Valley
Road last year. So in the light of this and dealing with other contractors for other properties, it's kind of scary the fact that they cannot figure out how to tie into a signal. So I am hoping without asking with the CPW certification that they're able to have
more experience under their belt to be able to do this kind of work and for us not to be worried that they're going to break the main and we're going to have to do another emergency repair. Okay. Yeah. Really? Thank you. Okay. I don't know if if you want to do this,
Miss Carvalo, but uh 2926-25 is I think might be worthwhile looking at again just in case somebody has any other questions that only you can answer. I know Mr. Diniac is worldly and wise, but he may not know any
questions that come up at this point. Uh council members, do you agree? Let's let's take a look at 2926 now. Yeah. Okay. A bond ordinance providing for buildings and grounds improvements along Rooney Circle buying in the township of West Orange appropriating
$2,170,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of 2,66,840 bonds or notes of the township to finance parts of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading?
So moved. Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, no. Councilwoman Scarpa, no. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion fails. So, I guess it's not worth discussing.
And now you can go on. All right. Thank you. Thanks. actually. [Music] So just for the public sakes council president 2926 um we have to have a discussion with
the CFO about our debt. Just want I'm pointing to the microphone. Uh I mean are we is are my council colleagues willing to after we have that discussion bring this back in any
fashion or we're just not going to make an improvement to our library parking lot? No, I'd like to make the improvement but I can't go for the pickle ball courts. I at the I can't I can't. But that money wasn't in this. That's a separate That's
not the money. It goes beyond the money. Okay. May I suggest that uh the opponents of this ordinance uh speak with Mr. Diniac if you guys can have a suggested way forward on this and
perhaps we can bring that amended or revised uh ordinance back on the next for the next meeting. Does that sound like a plan or what do you want to do? you just or do you want this just to not ever come back again? No, I think that this
should be part of the discussion under the budget. Yeah, with the budget. I agree. I think that we should consider the the um urgent safety issues, right? It should be part of it should be part of a budget discussion. Okay, I would
completely agree. Okay. So, let's bring it in the beginning part of the budget because technically the capital well technically the budget itself for this year it's not an issue because it's
already budgeted for capital improvements um the debt would carry forward in years to come but in order for all of you to make this decision you have to understand the debt plan and I get that.
So maybe we Oh. Oh, he's gone. So need him back. He was walking. Okay. Well, I'm just saying for your organization for the budget hearing if we could go over that debt plan in the first meeting next week. So this way we
could, you know, move on this. So because there's a, you know, we got to get it started if Yes, that's what we had planned to do last week when Mr. Timak was ill. Thank you, council president. Um yeah, just so just so everybody knows, in general and usually
on a bond ordinance, the only money that is expended in the year that uh the bonds are approved and even issued is the down payment and that's usually 5%. uh and because the debt service does not
begin until the following year. And any debt service that's owed between now and when the debt service is when I say now I mean when the bonds are issued any debt service payment or principal ah interest is is preloaded into the
issuance. So we will issue money to cover we will we will issue debt uh to cover the princ the debt the interest payments. This is this is bad the
interest payments until uh the following year. So uh this won't have a direct impact on our budget this year except for the 5% uh down payment. We still need to that's still the 5% down payment is going to be
part of the budget and we were going to discuss the debt repayment or the debt management plan at last week's budget workshop. We weren't able to do it. So, let's try to bring it up uh next week. I I will speak to Mr. Tenniac tomorrow.
Well, please use about a third later today a third fewer words than me because I couldn't I couldn't talk. Sorry. That's okay. All right. I think we're at 2912. Yes. Sad thing is I understood.
Yes. An ordinance amending chapter 11 section 3.4 of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange license fees maximum number. Um is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? Second.
Oh, hold on. Sorry. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Now is the time for the public hearing required by state law
for proposed ordinance 2912-25. If anyone would like to speak at the public hearing, please come forward. Be recognized by the chair. And you'll have up to five minutes to discuss this subject and only this subject. Is there anyone who'd like to speak? Seeing none, I close the public
hearing. Hi. Any council comments? Any council discussion? Make a motion to move the ordinance. Thank you. And second, Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes.
Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. Now I can send my letters out tomorrow. 2919-25 and ordinance amending chapter 5 sections 32.3 and 32.8 of the revised
general ordinances of the township of West Orange Police requesting towing and storage services. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? So moved. Thank you. Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman
Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. Motion carries. Now is the time for the public hearing on proposed ordinance 29/19-25. Anyone who wishes to speak at the public hearing, please be recognized. Come up to the to the uh speaking area, be recognized by the
chair, and you will have up to five minutes to discuss this ordinance and this ordinance only. Is there anyone who'd like to speak at the public hearing on this ordinance? Seeing none, I close the public hearing and ask my colleagues if they have any comment, discussion. I do, Council President.
Please go ahead. So, I'm going to ask Mr. Smaldo, do you? So, so shame on me. I talked to the chief today and I actually said, I have another question for you and I can't remember it and this was it. Where do they want to put these
uh this is my issue where where what what facility where like I I still understand three miles from the geographical center of the town of the town. I believe what this is for and I believe and I I I I apologize. I wasn't
involved with this particular one because it was a police matter, but I know when we were dealing with one of our our vendors, they they have to be geographically centered to respond to Route 280 or wherever they're when they get awarded a section of territory to
respond to like 280 or Garden State Park or things of that nature besides towing for the individual municipalities. So, what I think what we're looking for is an advance for one of our um towing companies here in in the down the hill that may be moving and we're trying to help them out. I think that's what it's
for, but I I apologize. I really don't know. I don't I just don't know where they're looking to locate because we've tried other places to find it. It's not It's not in West Orange, right? It's We're trying to get it We're trying to get it geographically close. So, this way if we have to tow a car out of our
borders, it's within the center of that area. So, well, my I guess my issue is I don't want to just say yes unless I know where you're looking to put it because it's not it won't be in West. That's what the chief said at the last meeting. I remember that. I wasn't here at the
last meeting. So, I I I can't But three miles from the center of town is Isn't that still in town? I believe it's not going to be in I know. That's why I didn't understand the three miles from the center of town. three. Um because I look at our center
and anywhere you go, you're still in town with three miles. So what's the downside? The downside is if it's like some place we don't want a towing site. Yeah. The big thing is good nightmares on Main Street. Like it's
it's Yeah, but I do recall him saying it was not going to be in West Orange. He did, but then this doesn't make s This just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not sure if we could get a better clarity of it or we could. It isn't something that has to be done right at this time of night. We could table it and I could get
the information for you. Yeah. Could you? I feel a little bit better. Notice I'm sorry, Madam Clerk. I've never done so many correction notices in my life. I'm I'm only asking because I I believe Madam Clerk is
correct. These are these are because like if you look at the ones we have on Main Street like you know across from that 410 Main Street there's like the one thing I will tell you that the one thing I will tell you we were when we were looking for other places for some
of our businesses there's nothing around in town that we can do anywhere in our and I would it may have to go out of town. Yeah. What are you gonna do? Let me just get you to speak into the Yeah. So, if you get your car towed, unfortunately, sometimes you may have to go out of town, but it's better than it
sitting in Yeah. I I wasn't involved with this one, and I wasn't here on Main Street. I can't give you a definitive answer on that, so I'll I'll find out from the chief. Okay. All right. If that's what your pleasure is. That is my my pleasure. Thank you.
Sorry, Madam Clerk. That's okay. So, it sounds like we need a different motion. Yeah, you need a motion to table. So, I'm going to make a motion to table if my colleagues would support that. I absolutely would. Second. Second. Okay. So, let's see. Motion to
table. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino to table. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. Okay. The motion carries to table. All right. 29 I'm sorry.
2921-25 bond ordinance providing for various 2025 capital acquisitions and improvements by in the township of West Orange appropriating $635,000 therefore and authorizing the issuance of
$65,600 bonds or notes of the township to finance part of the cost thereof. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? I'll make a motion. Okay. Is there a second? I will second to uh continue discussion. Okay. Councilwoman
Castelino. Uh yes. Councilwoman Ruden, no. Councilwoman Scarpa, no. Council President Kiroviaak. Uh yes. The motion fails. Okay. So, does this one move to
that category of budget discussion for my colleagues? I think it does. Is that okay with you guys? Yep. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now we have one
left. 2925 an ordinance amending chapter 25 section 11.10 of the revised general ordinances of West Orange outdoor cafes in the B1, B2, and PC districts. Is there a motion to introduce on first
reading? I introduce on first reading. Thank you. I'll second. Thank you, Councilwoman Castelino. Uh, to introduce. To introduce. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak.
Yes. The motion carries. Okay. Now, here's the hard part. Okay. It's making my brain work at 1:00 a.m. So, I I did a little bit of editing on this on this ordinance, which I do not think significantly change changes the
meaning in any way. U we had a problem throughout the ordinance that we were referring to um outdoor cafes and sidewalks. And it seemed like the problem was that the the term outdoor cafe was not defined. So, I added in a
definition and I'd like that to be in this in this ordinance so that we don't have to refer each time to outdoor cafe and sidewalks. Are there any questions on that issue? No, I'm just looking for the one. Okay. So, the ordinance that was
presented to us by legal was an ordinance with the wrong number and actually uh referring to fines. These changes don't refer to fines. They have to do with uses. So, that was that was
important to correct. Councilwoman, I don't know what you have, but I have one that says 2925 from administration. That was from last packet. 2925. This is what we're looking at. I got the same thing. It was something totally
different. This was from our last packet. Yeah, because we didn't do this last time. Yes, but read read the purpose of it. But I'm just saying that we did have ordinance. That's what I'm saying. This is why I'm really confused now because
this 2735-23 Yeah. is something that like the one that legal gave us that we were that I thought was oh it was corrected okay 2925-25 and they
took the recommendations so this says the purpose well let's say definition the portion to outdoor cafes and B1 B2 cafes under the purpose it says the purpose of this ordinance is to modify
the fines set in chapter 25. So what they did is they plucked out that ordinance and used the same language. Whereas the purpose of this ordinance is not to modify the fines but to modify the uses set forth in chapter 25 section
11.10 response personnel must be allowed to the main entrance. I think it was just a a an oversight. An accidental overight. Yes. No, I I unintentioned
that too. I don't know where this came from. So, no, I'm just looking at a a adequate access in order to provide adequate access for emergency. It's you got two different things. So, you have what they approved
out of legal, which is close, but yet it's still not close to what you have on this one. On on this one, I made I made some editing changes, so it's not going to look exactly the same. But I'm I'm going to go through the editing changes so that we can we can um be clear on
whether or not it's substantive or not. Well, so if I could jump in and clarify, this is the first reading, so we can change anything you want, but you need to make a motion for it. It needs to pass. Okay. So, I didn't know, but the one the one I have that I got in my packet was this one, which should be on
the website. Yeah. So, you should work off of whatever is in the packet and on the website and then make motions to change that to anything you want to change to it. What they're doing is Yes, but you So, you should go through this and make a motion for any changes from this you want to add to the other
change. Like, don't just say we're going to do this and try to move the whole thing, right? you go through this line by line and make whatever you want. So the first if the changes are legal I I mean I won't be able to give advice on that. Right. So yeah like this you
just said that you can make any changes you want within the first reading but we have to make sure that they're legal violates some other law that says you can't have other I can't review like whether the change itself is going to violate some other law. Okay. Whether you can make them tonight you can make them.
Okay. So clearly this this ordinance doesn't refer to fines. It refers to it. It it deals with uses. So I would like to make a motion to change that one word from fines to uses. So does everybody have this mystery
ordinance? What? Because I don't think I have. This is the one. No, I don't have it. This was in our last counciloman Castalino is holding up. And when you say our last packet, you mean from April 22nd. Last package. Oh, current package. Yeah, you should have it in front of you. 2925-25.
2926. Mine says second reprint, Senate number 368, state of New Jersey. I don't think I don't have it. I have 2925-25. Everyone should have in front
of them tonight. Okay. This is This is what I have. This has that ordinance number. Yeah, but that goes with it. That's you should have the ordinance as well. I have 2926 for that one. I was looking at that. I have all I have
is this um second re reprint with a bunch of stuff highlighted in yellow that went along with the ordinance. Look again. I don't think I have ordinance. Now, I don't have my entire packet.
So, this one that that is what the state passed, council woman. Okay. That is what the state passed and that's what that's the basis of creating this one. Now, we got three. No, no, no. That's not that's not ours. That is the state
regulation on outdoor cafes. Okay. It went it went in front of that, right? Do you want to look at mine because I pretty much Yeah. Why don't I just sort of hang with somebody? Okay. So, if
you don't look at this. Okay. So, do you have the ordinance in front of you? So, yeah. So, all right. So the first the first thing is just to correct a minor error which says the word finds it should be
uses. And who is tracking these changes to make to the ordinance? Is that something the clerk does? The lawyer who who makes the who keeps a record of these changes? Well, see, my cons I could keep a
record, but my concern is there may have been a reason why legal put fines in as opposed to uses and we don't know that it was based on the prior ordinance which regulated fines.
This regulate fines. This regulates uses. Okay. But pretty much the first paragraph here from what we have off 2920. What I would recommend us to do being that this came out
illegal, we take this that you did and mark up the one from 2925 for Karen and then that's what that is. But no, you have different like you know you have like a necessity that's never changed in socioeconomic climate. This doesn't have
that which is fine. I mean, so we got to pick and choose our or or Well, all of that is what she is indicating is the change. No, but this isn't this you you kind of get this somewhere else, Councilwoman, because
this isn't highlighted. Well, wouldn't it be that after we make these changes, we just show it back to legal and let them Yeah. do it? Well, I would say why don't we send this perhaps
table it tonight, send this to legal to incorporate into here and let them review what's legal, what can be done, what can't be done, because you might be making meaningless votes
that aren't Well, here's what we could do because of the process which requires us to discuss it in new business, which is where we are now. Perhaps Councilwoman Ruden could go over all the changes and that would certify that we
have discussed this and we have discussed the changes and then and then when it gets to legal, there won't be the issue that we haven't discussed it yet. B1 B. Personally, if that if this is going to delay it another two weeks,
Exactly. I would I would rather just vote on it as is even though I feel that that there are some Well, just so you know, this is a chapter 25 ordinance, so it has to go in front of the planning board or we can Good. Yeah. So, it's going to be even more time, right?
Exactly. So, that's why I was trying to clean it up, but if if we can't I don't understand. We've made very substantive changes in the past on first reading and the these are not substantive changes. So I remember when the tree ordinance
came before us at during even the second reading there were substantive changes made. Yeah. But we don't know because we're not attorneys. So we can't determine whether or not there are substantial changes or not. So that that's a concern of mine. We may you may
not think that they're substantial, but legally they may be. Just to clarify again, I apologize for jumping in. Whether or not they're substantial doesn't matter at this point. It's just whether the change like I don't know if defining outdoor cafe specific way is going to violate some state law about
outdoor cafes that's going to conflict with this. That's what the issue is here is if we make these changes, nobody's reviewed these to make sure that they don't violate some other law. Okay. So then then I will make a motion to pass this on first reading as is even though it's well I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to tell you why
because some of this is we are makes sense like it says by fire uh like they added in on on the township side the outdoor serving area as defined by township fire regulations which you don't have in yours. So I think staying
with this copy and and adding the changes here which are saying that that they don't have on mine this one. But what what num what what letter number are you saying I don't have? Uh so if you turn on the second page of yours on
uh a you have there you cross out by township fire regulations must be. So in other words, the town put adequate access for emergency response personnel must be allowed to the main entrance of the serving establishment from the outdoor serving area as defined by
township fire regulations. And then you crossed that last part out defined by township fire regulations. Well, in the first one, it did not it did not specify the number of feet that must be cleared.
the town of fire regulations would have that in there. Right. Okay. Well, that's an easy way to be very clear to the residents. Council president, can I make a suggestion that Yes, I was thinking about a suggestion, too, but please,
let's hear yours. Send both fees back to legal. We already voted to pass it on first reading. Send these to legal tomorrow. Let them review it. let them implement anything that can be implemented. Well,
this let's let's help her here. So, this outdoor definition here, this could go in here. This first page, this is pretty much this first page is done. The meat of this is a second page. So, when you get down
to the time and I had a question for you because um when you talk about you start at 12:00 p.m. Like you look at places like breakfast places like Harper's
Cafe, people that may just have something out on the street or like they would want to eat outside earlier than 12. No, that's true. So we have to
account for that. And then under K or J rather, the use of any sound amplification device on sidewalk or outdoor cafes is prohibited. But whenever amplified sound music is being played inside an establishment with outdoor cafe. I just
want to make sure we could do acoustic guitars out there because even with um they may not have an amplifier like you want I'm not opposed to light music in certain. No, as long
as there's no amplification. So there should be definition what is because sometimes the guitar guys come with a little no no amplification. Yeah, but if it's done the right way, it's not an issue. You have to you have to draw the
line. Um so there goes your downtown restoring base. No, no, it doesn't because anything that has a permit from the township is exempted from this for special event, right? No, but you but like like when you go to Montlair and they're having dinner outside, they
sometimes have light music. Like there's nothing wrong with that. That's well that that that can be granted through a permit and that that's perfectly fine but that's not it part of this ordinance because that's not a
cafe. This has only to do with cafes. The other some cafes are actually they have seating in the front. Like for example, um it wanted to put a couple chairs and has weight service out front at uh what's
uh the old Castle Rock. He has room because he has a big he has a big extension of premises there. Yeah, he has extension of premises. So if we wanted to put light guitar out there, no, there's no
amplification of music. This is the This is the same code that that Hoboken has. It's not permitted. Playing a guitar outside for a few people is not a problem. Having a sound system is a problem, especially in the B1
zones. I got to think about this. All right. I think what we should do is we got to get this finish that sentence, please. I It's one o'clock in the morning. I can't think. Yeah. Can we send it to legal? I I don't Well, it did bounce back from legal. He
did incorporate her changes on this one. There's a lot of green in here. No, those are his That sound application advice on sidewalks or cafes is prohibited. He put that in there. But he's not seen this, right? But legal legal added a lot of things that we
didn't we didn't discuss. Okay. So what what on here? So go by this copy. What do you want off? I just wanted to just make it a little bit there. The the the edits are so minor that it's it's hardly worth a
discussion. Um but if Oh yeah. Then what have we been doing for the last 25 minutes? Well, that's why I'm saying these are this is just editing. It's not it it adds a definition. And I thought that the definition would make the ordinance read a little better. But because this could be delayed, I am
willing to just take it as is and and pass it as is. Yeah. Passed on first reading already. Yeah. So that's fine. Just leave it the way it is. But I still we should send this to legal as long That's fine. Yes. as long and
they may be interested in incorporating some of the language. Exactly. So, okay, let me give the opportunity. Okay. What time do you want to go for the breakfast time? Like, what time do they serve?
I think breakfast would be I mean, you you want to have an outdoor cafe starting at 8:00 a.m.? Well, the new diner serves breakfast. They're open till 6:00. Yeah. They put something outside on their sidewalk. We are sending That's where the sidewalk starts narrowing. That's where the sidewalk
starts. There there has to be there. They have to get a permit to have an outdoor cafe. Yeah. Well, this is the ordinance, right? But you're saying that they currently have outdoor. They don't right now. No. But if they wanted to That's what I'm saying. Like
we're trying we're trying to have like a a I don't want a dead downtown. and I want a vibrant downtown, not a crazy downtown. So, we have to we have to meet somewhere in the middle. So, what what do you propose? I propose I go to bed
and and talk like look at this in the morning. But you I your point is that you want to be able to have breakfast outside. Yeah. So, we need a time nine o'clock. That sounds fair. Okay. Maybe you do 8:00.
Most people who have jobs don't come to eat outdoors breakfast at 9:00. No, they usually do it for brunch. They grab and go. Yeah. So, it's not a problem. They're not sitting outside. This is for people who are staying.
Remember Sweet Basil when they were up on Sure. Yeah. They were lovely and they had the outdoor. They would have been they were open for breakfast. They're in Yes, they're in Livingston. They left us. Okay. So, so um Councilwoman um
Castelino just made a amendment, I guess. Change. Yeah. Okay. All right. Wait a minute. I need to know what it was. So that So it's under. So that's what I need to know.
As of right now, we haven't made any motions to change anything. Right. What is the motion? Council Castelina, what I think it's Wait, is it Jay? Any permit issue shall designate the hours of operation of any
sidewalk capture out there shall not exceed the hour of 12:00 a.m. 12:00 p.m. noon. So, so letter J should read uh 8:00 a.m. noon. 8:00 a.m. 8:00 a.m.
We just decided Oh, 9. Okay. 9:00 am to says your 10 p.m. Okay. Since since amendments are being made, I'd like to make an amendment. Sure. Wait, before we before we do that, we need to do the motions one at a time.
Yeah. So, now that we know the edit that Counciloman Castelino is offering now, we have to have a motion and a second. Yes. change. So, we're changing 12 noon to
9:00 a.m. Correct. On section J. Yes. Right. Paragraph J. Okay. Is there a motion? I make a motion. Second. I'll second it. I'll second it. Too late. Oh, okay. Sorry. I'm starting to fall asleep. I
know. Me, too. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay, the motion carries for the amendment. Okay, I'd like to make an amendment to point C. It says in here the word
may some form of some form formal space delineation such as a it says removal. That's a that's a mistake. You don't have a removal fence. It's a removable. So make that. Okay, that's a correction.
Okay. Removable fence. Instead of the word may, I'd like to put the word shall. Okay. Be required. And it's not can I can I the the the word is not during shall be required
during outdoor. It's just shall be required. Take out the word during outdoor cafes oper operating in a parking lot. That's really what it should say that you have to have a delineation. If you're in a parking lot, you want to
protect the the people who are eating in a parking lot. So, you should have a formal delineation. So, say it from the beginning. So it should say some form of formal space delineation such as a removable
fence shall be required for outdoor cafes operating in a parking lot. Okay. You don't need a removable fence for people who are eating outside of Harper's Cafe, but you do need it in a
parking lot where shall be required. Say that again. shall be required shall be required for outdoor cafes operating in a parking lot. Well, I think you should just put the cafe area
because there there are removable apparatuses. It may not be a fence, but there's these screens that are barriers that can be put on the sidewalks very easily. They can, but are you do you want to mandate it for sidewalks? because this is only
mandating it for parking lots where I thought car well here. Well, so so so just so you know how it works with the parking lots, it would be more of a sturdier structure. So it it has to get approved. So those structures have to get approved through zoning. like when
we did all the outdoor cafes during COVID, uh, the metal barriers um were purchased um and put out to give them the c outdoor cafe spaces. So, the parking lots probably won't happen right
now because it would have to be a zoning dedicated area, but we currently do have parking lots that are being used. Forimo was using a parking lot. We used a parking lot. That was during CO. That was co CO's different than now. Like for example, mom and dad's had to put up a
permanent structure, right? Cuz co's over. That's out the window. So the only thing that the zoning officer will probably allow in the on the sidewalks is like the little tables like right in front if there's a partition. But if it's in the parking lot, that all had to
get approved. the police the uh chief had to go with um with Janice, our director, to make sure it was safe because the parking lot you have cars, you know, so Okay. All right. Yeah, it's different
now that CO's over. That's all. But we just had a parking structure put up in a parking lot that did not have Well, that was from CO and it never came down and it should have came down. That was No, they were just putting it out. Yeah. that. So that So I'd like to make a
motion to make those changes. Okay. So I'm still confused because I don't see anything about a parking lot here. I know. I'm I'm adding that shall be required for outdoor cafes operating in a parking lot.
because this is only talking about sidewalk space. Show baby porter cafe, right? So, you're getting rid of everything that talks about the well sidewalk. Yeah, you should keep that in there, too. And you you need to put both in there. Okay.
Shall be required for outdoor cafes operating in a parking lot and sidewalk space. Yeah, this is getting very confusing. It's 1:15 in the morning and I have a headache. So, it's I have headache
medicine if you want ibuprofen. I've already taken three. Yeah. Um, Councilwoman um Ruden, can I just ask you to send me the amendment tomorrow because I I keep writing, erasing, writing, erasing. So, I'd rather clean
up clean up C or her and then we have to vote on that amendment. Okay. So, I heard the amendment. Just give me this. So, Councilwoman Ruden, you're going to make the uh motion. Motion. Okay. The motion is to change some of
the language in C um to correct. Do you want me should I go through what the corrections are? Yeah. Just so that the the word removal I think it was a was a typo. It was supposed to be removable. Okay. fence
and uh remove the word may and make it shall be required for outdoor cafes and sidewalks or no I'm sorry for outdoor cafes operating in a parking
lot and on sidewalks. Okay. Okay. Yes. Is Is there a second? Second it. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Kovia,
yes. I have a I have an amendment to D, and I promise not to drag this out too much longer. Um, the amendment to D is it currently reads, outdoor or patio type furniture must um must be
used. Upholster upholstered furniture is prohibited in there. So I want to make a change to that so that it says outdoor or or instead of must it to to
use the word shall. Okay. And where it says upholstered furniture is prohibited. What we're really prohibiting are couches. We're not prohibiting a cushion on a chair. Cushions are removable, right? But that's this is she
doesn't want to leave it outside because then it gets wet and disgusting. We're only talking about fully upholstered furniture is not is prohibited. So put fully upholstered. You add the word fully. Yeah.
Okay. So that's it. So questions are um Excellent. So is there a second on that change? Second. Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino, uh, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes.
Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Okay, quick question for E. It says street outdoor furniture. Uh, or furniture must uh must be removed into the serving establishment when the
outdoor cafe is not open for business. Why? Where's that? Right. E e street f street street furniture. So I know um when Castle Rocket last summer had their high tops and chairs
out um they had to pull them in close to the building, right? But if you if you go to Monontlair, they have lots of cafes and they just leave their outdoor furniture out overnight. They don't have to pull it in every night. I guess it depends. I don't know. I I'm just saying
why do we need that? Why do we why are we requiring small businesses to pull their furniture so it doesn't blow into the street at night? They don't do it in other towns. They leave the furniture out. You know, the furniture is isn't plastic chairs. I guess we could deal with that if it
became a problem, couldn't we? Boy, could that deal it? Yeah. In other words, like it's a it's a burden for them to bring them in all the time. But if it became a problem, you know, where they're uh they were blown away and stuff, I think we can deal with that
separately, couldn't we? Why should we be requiring small business owners to do that? Well, we don't know the reason they put it in there. So, we might want to question Question it. Yeah, it's question. We could always we we could pull that out. I think that's substantive if we pull it out, but let's question it
first. The safety or Okay. All right, I think I've as they say in Yiddish trade everybody's cup enough and think we did great work. Thank you,
Joyce. My cup over. No, I appreciate it because I know it takes time to read all this and I don't have that kind of time and I appreciate the time you've been spending. Okay, so
Are we on new business now? I believe we are out of business. We're on new business. We're on new business. Okay. So, um, sorry. Um, there's nothing on the agenda for new
business. I know. I but but we have to discuss something under new business because I was told that this has to be discussed by legal. So the noise ordinance. Yes. So uh the council um agreed last time to put up a noise
ordinance. This time um we each uh gave in our comments. I compiled it and sent it into legal and then was um told by legal that we had to discuss everything again for some reason. So,
[Music] um we'll discuss everything again even though we discussed it last time. Um, I think that's good because there's some things I know it went I know Councilwoman Scarpa brought it up and and Miss Bril at the economic
development commission and they had comments and my downtown meeting um is until next week I think. So, I haven't had a chance to get their feedback, but a few of them told me they wanted us to go to 10
o'clock and we did that already was in there. Okay. It was okay. So, we're in agreement. Um, anything else? But 10 10 o'clock 10 o'clock on a week night in the business area. Is that really fair? There should
be different hours between Well, they later on the weekend 10 and 11. They wanted to go 12 actually on the weekend, but that's and it's not that it's not to say they can't have noise inside their establishment. It's just what rolls
outside. Okay. So, right now what what we have the changes that that I guess we need to discuss um with let me just pull up Mr. Frank's
letter on noise and all of the questions that I did send back to him and everybody was copied on that and I'm so sorry to take your time but this is what he is asking us to do. I felt that we already did
this. That's okay. is awesome. I'm sorry. Sign all your Thanks for that. It's here. But one of the things you have to do is sign the uh certification that we've looked at the audit. Yeah. So, have we It's in there.
Right. But I figured we'd all sign the same paper. Yeah. This paper. Yep. So, whose paper? It's on It's in It's on the resolution. I signed it on. You're talking about the big big thing you had on the table. Yeah. I put it over here. Yeah.
So, what do we do about Councilman G? I could get them another time. Okay. I have I have the letter. Um, first question. Do you want to change the hours for the
noise ordinance from 11:00 p.m. until 7:00 p.m. which currently exists to 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. in the residential areas? And that is what we all agreed on and I said yes. No, but then we changed it because I
said it's Oh, that's a residential area. Residential. Yes, that's what we all agreed on. And he's asking me this question. And I'm saying during the week during all the time we should not look there going to be parties that's going to going to be an
unusual happening and everybody is tolerant and and um neighborly when there's a party or an event. But we're talking on a on a daily basis there should not be noise after 8:00. We all go home to have peace. I agree. But you're going to have a
neighbor that's going to have a barbecue. That's fine. And once in a while these things they're not going to be calling the police on a on a on a barbecue. Yes, sir. I do not see one police officer. He knows he's answers the calls. Okay. So,
yes, it is. If we don't discuss this, this is not going to get on next time. So, we have to we have to just say all these things on the record so that Mr. Trent can hear them again. Okay. So,
so what are you reading off the letter that he sent asking all of the questions? Don't forget we define the nordinance to to what? To decimals or No, we're not doing decimals because that would require us going to the state, right? We're doing just ordinary
and reasonable. Oh, so if you hear some noise. Yeah. Okay. Yes. you get to them. So, are we good on that? Yeah, let's go to the next one. Okay, next one. I would make it nine, though, on the weekends.
Second page, please. Okay. So, I don't have it in front of me. So, yeah, I'm depending on you to, you know, build on weekends. And what do you define as the weekend? Friday and Saturday. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, but
Sunday's not really a weekend because Sunday is Monday is a is a school day. I don't I don't know. Councilwoman, it's it's late. Um Okay. Um Councilwoman Scarpa, what's the
weekend to you? To me, it's Friday and Saturday, but I'll go with whatever everybody agrees to. Okay. All right. Because people have parties at their house on Sunday, right? But should they be going on till 900 p.m.? You want to
say Friday, Saturday, and Sunday? Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Do you want to limit the plainly audible distance of 25 ft from any building or structure to 10 feet? We all agreed on that and said yes. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Do you want to limit excessive
base vibrations? We all said yes. Yeah, we were at that. Okay. And uh then he went into talking about um yeah for the purposes of this section vibration perception threshold shall
mean the minimum ground or or structure born vibration motion necessary to cause a reasonable person to be aware of the vibration. Okay. Is that all right? That was that was that was that's the a reasonable that's he's saying that's the
definition. Okay. And I'm saying, "Yeah." Okay. Do you want to limit festivals and permitted events to occur only between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m.? And my response was, "No. This exempts festivals permitted or run by the township." Absolutely. Okay. I agree.
Okay. Do you want to create a different noise requirements for different zones? This ordinance implements a requirement for all businesses in B1 zones that includes installing soundproofing materials in walls, windows or doors. Is your
intention to retroactively affect existing businesses or is this for new businesses only? And the answer to that is soundproofing is only if necessary. It is not a requirement. So if we have we have a a an
establishment that is causing a problem then it can be added on as a something that that can be implemented but it is not a requirement for every business. We should seems fair to me. Well we should put something in there. If you are
installing a DJ booth or that kind of equipment then you have to have soundproofing. Uh, we are not dealing with DJs in this. That's an entertainment issue. Okay. Okay. This is just DJs, but
we're not dealing with DJ as a definition in here. Um, so, do you want to prevent businesses in B1 or RM zones to be restricted from playing music that is audible or felt through vibr vibrations after 9:00
p.m.? And we had agreed yes. And does this include inside the premises? No. No. No. Um, keep going. How will it be possible to to dictate the vibrations? And I
said, see definition motion necessary to cause a reasonable person to be aware of the vibration. Okay. Then he's talked about, "Do you want to remove the words yelling and shouting and replace with hooting, whistling, or singing?" I like
hooting. No. And I said, "No, I like yelling or shouting." No, the words hooting, whistling, or singing should be removed, and yelling and shouting should be replaced. I'm these interesting. Um, if the hour limitation is 8:00 p.m. to
8:00 a.m., the effect would be that children would have to play quietly outside after 8:00 p.m. At that point, I said quiet outdoor play by children is generally not a problem. We're not regulating the sound of children. This is an question. Agreed. And he's saying
even in the summer after 8:00 p.m. and I said this is an odd question. Why would children playing outside be in noise? We're talking about electronically amplified music, not children playing, right? Most people don't. Nobody's gonna complain about children playing.
Exactly. Keep going. You'd be surprised. I had a neighbor or grown up that complained all the time. Well, if it's if it's very disturbing, then then somebody's crabby. Okay. Yeah. See that? See, this is the problem. You don't want to create an ordinance
that because they like in my neighborhood they call the police all the time because the houses are so close together and you know because people are so sensitive that you you just you just don't want to cause that kind of issue.
This is silliness though. We're not really talking about children playing outside. Yeah. Surprised the phone calls they get. It's true. So what do you want So what do you want to do? I don't know that the balance I say we change it if it becomes a problem. Any of this could
be modified. Okay. So the next issue is is um the proposed ordinance seeks to prevent loading or unloading of any vehicle or the opening emptying or or destroying of bales, boxes, crates,
garbage cans between the hours of 6 p.m. and 6 6:30 a.m. Is this the intention? I said, "Yes." And he said, "If so, what is the effect of someone attempting to take out
their trash or recycling at night after 6 p.m.?" Nobody's going to complain about that. And I said, "We're talking about amplified music, not about ordinary activities of living." So, some of these questions are just interesting,
odd. Well, and but nobody complains about a neighbor taking out their trash at midnight. But you you again there we've gotten some crazy complaints over the years. I'm telling you people. Okay. But you don't write an ordinance for the exception. You write it for the general
generalities. And we're talking about daily living activities are not a problem. Right. Let's move on. Um I'm getting tired. Okay. Mr. Craig, excuse me. Councilwoman, how many people are still watching us? 114. Really? No.
No. Okay. Wow. Wow. Thank you public for caring about this. Okay. Are we creating noise? We're we're at 13 we're 13. Um the ordinance proposed seeks to
prohibit all restaurants, bars, clubs, cafes, and fitness centers, and all forms of beauty care centers to restrict playing music that is audible after 9:00 p.m. Thus, even if indoor, this prohibition would apply. Is that the goal? And I said again, no, this does not apply to indoor music. This is what
I circulated to everybody. Any feedback? It only applies to music that is audible outside of the establishment. Um, the proposed ordinance requires all outdoor dining to cease operations at 10
p.m. Is this the goal? Yes, this follows Hoboken's regulation. Yeah, it's probably um the proposed ordinance provides the use provides that the use of sound amplification devices in outdoor cafes is prohibited at all times. Is that the intent? Yes. Again,
following Hoboken's ordinance. [Music] Um the So that's for music. Yes. For amplification of music. Yeah. So they're outside just having a drink.
It's fine. That's right. Okay. Which I'd like to be doing right now. Right. Um an approved outdoor cafe. They can do that, right? But they shouldn't really be standing in an outdoor cafe. They
should be sitting. And that's a problem with some of these. They become standing only, which is another change I wanted to make, but I didn't want to drag it out. You again, we got you got to be able to enforce this. And it's so hard. You're going to have these four police
officers going crazy. Not really. If they understand if they understand the the the law, then it should be easy to to enforce. Well, perhaps they have the choice. They can come to a council meeting and guard us and protect us, or
they can they can raz standups. Okay. And finally, it was not our intention to ask people to move their air conditioning units inside. He's asking if if that was the
intention, and of course not. That's the the proposed ordinance does not impact um homeowners with air conditioning units. Well, so here's another thing I'm going to tell you. There we had one business actually. It was uh who was it?
the not it's the food now with their Yes. And they had an issue with their uh air conditioning was too loud. Yeah. It was I remember that. Yes. And and so so he so there's reasons why homeowners
homeowners with air conditioning unit. I'm saying there are units that are clanky clank and super loud. So yeah, right. But those are large. This does address large ventilation systems, but it does not apply to individual
homeowners who have air conditioning units. And that's what he was asking about. And we this does not apply to that. The major goal is not to have crazy amplifying music outdoors. That's what this addresses. Okay. So, I hope that it
can now be brought on. So, can you reemail that to me and then I'll ree you the response that I sent to Mr. Tran? Yes. So that with your changes with the changes? Well, there there are no changes cuz No, we changed sometimes
just now. Oh, that. So, I mean, you don't have to do it right this second. Sure. But, you know, so I can send it to him and then it'll be ready for the next meeting. Is that it?
Um, yes. I really was just clearing my throat. Could I get you to sign? That's necessary. Is there a second to sign this? Yes, it is. Is there a second to second? All in favor? I I I
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to the city of Mr. Good night. I'm leaving. Thank you, Joy. Thank you.