Well, good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for April 28, 2026. We're live streaming to you from council chambers at 66 Main Street here in West Orange at town hall. You're welcome to join us in council chambers for public comment, but as
always, there will be no public comment on Zoom. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president. >> Okay. Welcome everyone. you. Everyone here in the chambers and everyone on Zoom. Madame Clerk. >> Yes. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held
in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on October 30th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilman Kakovia,
>> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present. Council President Scarpa present. Mayor McCartney. >> Okay. Tonight we have a in our conference agenda, we have a presentation from the GI GO Fund Red,
White, and Blue Day. Mayor, would you like to introduce Council President? Thank you, Council. Uh, yeah. So, this evening we do we have a partnership with GI GoFund. I'm going to be joined here by Joe represent representative. This is a New Jersey
nonprofit organization that helps veterans with employment, housing, and health care. And Joe will talk more about it, but it is we designated a day here in town hall dress in red, white,
and blue May 21st um to help fund the organization. So, please Joe, join us. Tell us more. Okay. So, this is the second time I'm here. I was here last year and uh thank you for having me again. Uh I was actually
really nervous last year, so I'm just a little less nervous now, but uh yeah. So, um thank you, mayor, for um those words. Uh so, my name is Joe Bongan. I'm the director of veteran services for the GI GoFund. We're a veterans nonprofit again in Newark. Um I'm also a Navy
veteran. I've been doing this since 2015. Uh our organization was founded in 2006. Our late great uh executive director Jack Venuse uh his best friend Seth Devorne was killed in Iraq in 2005 by an IED. So we decided to carry their
legacy and honor them this upcoming Memorial Day by doing our red, white, and blue fundraiser. Staff would pay $5 to wear jeans or red, white, and blue theme. And those proceeds would go to our organization to help the veterans who need housing uh their benefits and employment uh needs as well. And we also
offer a small business incubator space for veterans who do have small businesses. Uh so that's something that we're very proud of and I think um we're the only ones in Essex County that may do that as of this moment. So um if you have any questions, you can visit our website at gigo.org.
Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for your service. >> Thank you. So, I did this I'm going to do the same thing tonight, Joe, that I did last year, which was if people don't want to wait or come into the uh uh town hall to
participate, could you just give us the URL of the of the website so that uh >> people can >> come back to the microphone, >> please? >> This way everyone can hear it. Who's >> Okay, I'm back. Uh, so it's gigg.org
and you can click the link for red, white, and blue day. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Oh, the >> So, did the mayor tell you you can have you can talk until 7 o'clock?
>> Okay. So, since we have a little bit of time, why don't we do our council liaison reports? We haven't done those in a while. Uh, would anyone like to start? >> I'm not ready. Yeah, >> you're not ready. Okay. Councilwoman White. >> Good evening, West Orange. Um very happy
to report had a meeting earlier today 3:00 this afternoon with the municipal alliance committee um to talk about the ending of their fiscal year the activities that they've done to support alcohol and drug abuse, substance abuse
um and a partnership uh that is with the state of New Jersey and uh the schools. Um so we have had a very successful year but we are looking to continue to strengthen that uh community
relationship. We have members from the committee from the community. Um we also have representatives from Satan Hall Prep as well as West Orange High School. And so unfortunately last year we had very very active uh members from both of
those um schools but this year not so much. So, um, a wonderful opportunity with the few minutes that we have here, um, to put everyone on notice, um, that the fiscal year does begin, um, next month if I'm not mistaken, um, or maybe
even June. Um, but we will be looking to fulfill those positions. So, if there's anyone interested in drug and alcohol substance abuse and a partnership with the township, that is a member of Satan Hall Preparatory or West Orange High School, there is a designated liaison.
um to serve in both of those capacities. In addition to that, um there is a need for a uh doctor to serve on that board as well. Um unfortunately, Main Street Counseling was the partnership in the
community that we had with u the facility and um we are looking to uh find someone to replace um that that partnership as well. So again, anyone interested in drug and alcohol abuse um welcome. Please contact Laura Van Djk.
Um that is under uh her directorship. Um and she would be welcoming of uh anyone interested to serve and that is open to residents as well, anyone who lives in West Orange um to serve in those capacities. also really excited um to
talk about the West Orange Arts Center Gallery despite my colleagues not willing to continue um to support that organization financially um from the administration with us uh you know making the recommendation to cut the $18,000 support from the budget just
last night. Um, but I'm very very happy to say that we have some very very talented artists in our community um that are very interested in supporting the arts. And one of those is Stephanie Battle um who if you know anything about
the Carden family um Jan and Jan Carden that's their daughter and she is back in West Orange. And because uh April is Earth month, um we have a wonderful exhibit at the art center gallery. And while I am maybe impeding on Councilman
Koviaak's um liaison report as a board member, I was actually at the event on uh Saturday evening um where we had uh the talented um input of various community residents um to do um song,
violin, um poetry, comedian um and it was just an absolutely fabulous event. So, we're looking to um continue to garner support for the West Orange Art Center Gallery so that um facility can remain open. Um that is the lifeline of
arts in the valley for our West Orange Township. Um and the regular open hours um are from Saturday and Sunday 2 to 4:00 p.m. Um so please stop by the gallery. This month's exhibit uh is the Earth um
uh art exhibit. And so for next month, um, not only are we continuing our partnership, but we are taking advantage of FIFA. And so we will be looking to, um, receive soccer balls, gently use soccer balls from the community. Um, so
we do have a call for that. And then we also have a call for artists, artists that are willing to um, paint a soccer ball. Of course, there will be a small fee for those who are a member of WOAK. The fee to enter your artwork is always $15 and if you are not a member that fee
is going to be $40. We're also going to look for support from our local businesses. We're going to ask our businesses to get involved and we'll have professional artists actually design a ball on their behalf. Um so very similar to what we've done in the past in West Orange um with the light
bulbs, with the cows, um we're really just trying to uh foster community engagement. And then of course there is also another um board that I serve on which is the West Orange Chamber of Commerce. Um and that will be a partnership with the West Orange Arts
Center Gallery um to continue to support our local businesses in town. So if there is a business um that is outside of the downtown corridor um please consider uh clicking on to the West Orange Chamber of Commerce website uh joining the West Orange Chamber of
Commerce. We have quarterly uh events where we are looking to support our businesses in the community and of course there is also the opportunity um just to learn more about business success. Um so I think council president that will complete um again we haven't
done that in a while. I had a lot to offer. So thank you for your indulgence. Um and that completes Yes, it has. It has. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Uh anyone else want to do the council leazison announcement? Um just very quickly um I am on the rent leveling
board which deals with adjustments for tenants and for landlords who have issues on either side. And we had a meeting this this month just a few days ago and we are discussing revising the ordinance to make it more accurately um
reflect what is going on in the board and how an applicant can apply to the rent leveling board for a hearing. Um so that's that's what we're working on right now and that's that's the end of my report in terms of committees right
now. Right. Go. >> Thank you. Councilwoman Williams left me a sliver of of something else to talk about with uh uh West Orange Arts Council. Uh you may know that the Arts Council has served and enriched our
community uh and our local culture for a wide variety of performing, visual, and literary arts, including the most recent 20th annual West Orange Classic Film Festival uh for nearly three decades. And we are seeking financial and
volunteer support uh to keep the arts center open and going and continue our nu numerous shows and galleries including our gift shop. And the way you can do that is you can go to the arts council website wac.org
and seek out an opportunity to either volunteer or to contribute uh to West Orange Arts Council. And what you can do is we've set it up so that you can make a sustainable contribution every month, no matter how large or small. We're
trying to build up to $2,000 a month in sustainable contributions uh so that we can stop worrying about how to pay the rent. So wac.org and look for contribution and hit the sustainable button. Please
consider. Thank you. That's well arch though. W arts W arts, >> which is another reason why she should be doing this and not me. >> Thank you, Council. >> Okay, great. Councilwoman Castelina, did you have any?
>> Yeah, thank you. And and thank you for our guests today for coming in and and the mayor for such a a great present, you know, to bring up such a great need. Um, you know, Memorial Day is next month and we have to thank our veterans, especially in these difficult times. So,
thank you so much and for your service. Uh, Downtown Alliance, we're excited. Uh, street fair time is coming up. It'll be Saturday, uh, June 6 from 11 to 5. Uh, very excited because we, uh, were able to secure, thank you to the mayor's
office and all her hard hard work with the FIFA World Cup committee. Uh we have the Skyline to shoreline road tour band bus coming to our event this year that we're going to have them park in front of CVS and uh we're expecting a really good time and a really great turnout.
So, we're very excited that we are working with the FIFA organization um and just catch the buzz and to support our business owners because it's all about bringing recognition to our small businesses and trying them to capitalize on the local um the local
events coming to New Jersey that is not so local but just to give them some great exposure. Uh the Downtown Alliance has on their website any of our business owners that are interested in getting some acknowledgement and recognition for some local offers that they have. You
could just go right to their website and you could submit an event uh a local offer or local cup of and just be aware of the local cup events in the area. So, anybody looking to support one of our restaurants uh that want to visit them that they're going to have the games on,
you could go to the downtown website and uh you could click on there as it gets closer to the event and the restaurants are posting. So, we appreciate everyone's whole uh hard work and uh we look forward to some great things to come. I'll keep it short. Thank you, Council President.
>> All right, great. Um the planning board has a lot of interesting um projects going on right now that I've gotten a lot of, you know, of course we get a lot of calls on and that a lot of people are interested in. Two of the major issues everyone knows are the West Essex
Highlands. The WE care organization has been um very active in getting the community to understand that issue. There is also um some development over at the Essex House that many residents have um a lot to say about. So you may
want to tune in to the planning board. Our next meeting is a week from this from tomorrow, Wednesday, and um the West Essex um is is not on, but the uh Essex House uh will be. And those are
two things that pe that many many of our residents care about. So you it would be good to tune in. >> The older adults advisory board is always on the move. We have um been researching so many important topics to
seniors. They usually revolve around transportation and programs and senior centers. And one of the the most important themes that has come up very regularly has been the need to exercise
and stay very active and physically fit as we age. I think people don't realize it, but once you retire and you don't have that structure in your life of getting up and going to work every day, um it's easy for health to deteriorate.
So, we have been looking at a variety of exercise programs and projects um in the area. We've had physical therapists come and we've had a lot of very interesting speakers. So, um if anyone would like to join us, we'd love
to have you. And if you're interested in exercise programs and exercise equipment, we will be taking a field trip to take a look at some equipment in neighboring towns. So join us for that and that's really about it. Council, one
more thing. >> You want to go ahead? >> Yeah, your character quick. >> No, sorry. I'm sorry. Thoughts in my head, so I don't want to lose it. I I I just I'm also the liaison to the West Orange Board of Education and I I just wanted to, you know, just speak out just
for a second. Um our school district is going through very tough times right now. Uh about 84 uh staff members were told that they will not be coming back next year. Um and there's also some other changes that
they have to decide upon May 4th. Um, so you know, it's time for our community to to, you know, to keep together and to really, you know, look at the different information. And I mean, it's tough. We're going through our own budget
process. We were here last night with uh with everyone and our directors and going line by line in the budget and um I just a lot of these residents that a lot of the staff members that are losing their positions are also residents of
the community which is really heartbreaking. Um known a lot of them for many years and they've been with the district a really long time. So, I I just wanted to acknowledge all that they're going through and I hope that they could find a path forward um that
won't result in in what they're looking at. So, um I just had to share that with everyone and to just be respectful to what they're going through and hopefully uh they'll be able to, you know, hopefully figure something out. Thank you. >> Thank you very much for sharing that.
Many of them are my colleagues and as I've said many times, our teachers are one of our most invaluable and um undervalued resources in our community. So, yeah, >> we wish all of them well. Thank you, Council President, and and
thank you uh Councilwoman for just acknowledging the difficult times that um West Orange as a community in whole uh is going through cuz again, it's on both sides. And uh this hopefully will create opportunities for us to do a
different type of analysis that we've done in the past and see if there are any opportunities um for shared services. So, thank you for that acknowledgement. Um, I would be remiss um if I did not bring up the Junth Film Festival. Um, the deadline for
submissions is April 30th, so that is imminent. Um, I want to say thank you to the community for your submissions this year. Um, we have received more submissions than we have ever in the past and this is our third uh Junth film
festival. Um so again thank you and if you have any interest in um short films, documentaries, um music videos, panel discussions um in the film industry um that really speaks to the black experience um please don't hesitate um
to uh do those um or or submit those. And again the um website for that is wjfilmfestgmail.com. Um so looking forward to um just that opportunity to bring the cultural experience um to West Orange as we've
done for the past two years and again this is our third year. So thank you so much. >> Is that come from the arts council? >> That is coming from WSAC Foundation. That is something that we've um taken on for the past three years um as a a sponsor and then we look to the
community to continue that sponsorship partnership. So, we go out to different community businesses um to sponsor the film festival. It's done on a zero budget. Um we started this three years ago in hopes that it would be something um that would complement our movie
studio um that we're hoping um does eventually come to West Orange. But again, this is the home of Thomas Edison. This is the home of the first um uh film film film studio um with the Black Mariah. So, okay. when we learned
of that opportunity, um this was um something that we put together. >> So, anybody looking to donate, they donate to this address here. >> Um so, donations don't actually go through here. Um donations are completely totally This is just for the
film submissions. Um so, we have a entire committee um that works for the Junth Film Festival that goes out and solicits donations. >> Okay. So, it's not through the arts council. >> It's not through the arts. The arts council is a um partner. >> Okay.
Then where would the donations go to? >> Um donations go to the WOSA Foundation. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Mhm. >> And how much of the money goes to the West Orange Arts Council? >> Um so there are no funds that go to the
Arts Council at this point. This is um a zerobased budget. Um, we've done this in the past uh two years on just $5,000 worth of contributions and a 100% of those contributions go to the venues that we use um to facilitate hosting the
events. This year we're going to do something completely different and we're going to look to our businesses to support um the uh event. I noticed that there was a $10,000 Jubilee donation that goes directly to
your personal charity. Um, can you can you um disclose to the council what the financials and how much was brought in in the past two years when this was actually done with the arts council and donations were just requested to your
personal charity rather than it going to now which is entirely charity. Um, unfortunately I'm not prepared because I didn't have any knowledge of the inquiry uh regarding the financials. But again, as I indicated um previously, we have
always had partnerships with this event um to sustain the financial uh opportunities that are necessary for us to rent different facilities to host the event. I'm not sure if you've ever had an event at AMC um but it costs over $1,000. I think you can check those
figures with the um the classic film festival if you're interested to see what those um fees are, but it's quite expensive to host something at um the uh AMC facility. >> So, if there's any um
>> proceeds left over after your your film festival, where will those proceeds go? >> Again, as I indicated, this is hosted by the Wolsack Foundation. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Exclusively. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> All right. that it's going to start. >> All right. Oh, it's 7 o'clock.
>> Okay. >> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on October 30th,
2025. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilman Kakoviaak, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present. Council President Scarpa >> present. >> Mayor McCartney. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance?
>> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting.
Okay, it is 7 o'clock and time for public comment. Can I have a show of hands? Who would like to be making public comment tonight? Okay, very good. Thank you. We'll start right here.
Oh, Joe Fagan. Ben, we'll start with you. I know you're anxious. >> Thank you, Council President. Uh tonight I want to uh remind everyone uh I think it was mentioned before we had the municipal budget workshop last
night, the first of several me uh meetings coming up and all the uh documents related to the West Orange municipal budget. Uh latest documents are um at our on our website west.org And if you just go to the scroll uh you
will see this uh graphic and you just have to click on this graphic and this will take you to all the uh latest updated uh documents. And uh uh our next scheduled meetings are uh May 5th and May 11th and the information and links uh for these document uh for these
meetings are on our website. Uh Mayor McCartney has office hours coming up on May 7th. I can't believe it's going to be May already. uh May 7th, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. here uh the mayor's office 66 Main Street. Uh and as always, no appointment
is necessary and the council connection is April 30th. Uh also here in council ch well here in council chamber 66 Main Street. Also, no um appointment is necessary and you can email the council, an entire council. The email goes to
other locations as well, but you can contact them councilwwest.org. org. Um there is a hydrant flushing going on by New Jersey American Water from April 26 to May 1st. Uh there's details about this on our website. Now,
uh I mention this because you may see some discolored water or experience periods of low water pressure and that's as a result of the hydrant flushing going on. So, uh not to be concerned, but check the website and uh there are some details about what you can do and
what to expect. Um, we have not had any bear sightings here in uh in West Orange as of yet, but it is bear seasoning. They're coming out of hibernation and uh I believe there was a bear sighting recently in Caldwell. Um, you know, so
they're they're out and about. They're in West Orange. They will, you know, they could potentially be in West Orange. Now, in the past, I've said um if they're Chicago Bears, they're harmless, but I can't say this this year. uh the Chicago Bears, they may be dangerous, but all kidding aside, be on
the alert for uh for bears. Um as was mentioned, the uh film submissions for the Junth Film Festival is uh available through April uh open through April 30th, and this uh uh email address that's up there is uh to make us uh a
submission. Um tomorrow uh at the is the uh job fair at the um uh West Orange Public Library 10 Rooney Circle. This information is on our social media and coming up on May
7th. I believe I mentioned this at the last council meeting, but this certainly is very important. Mobile breast and cervical screening. Um early detection is key. Uh so please, this information is on our u social media. Uh please
check this out for more details. Also um it was mentioned Memorial Day is coming up. I'll have something about that in a minute. Uh but the uh Rotary Club, one of our um uh a a long time a longtime community partner here on West Orange has the flag for heroes program. You can
sponsor a flag on a flag pole. And this information is on our social media. and uh United Asian Voices and West Orange Asian Culture Club invites you to Golden Week Japanese Culture event at the West Orange Public Library, Saturday, May
2nd. Uh this information is also on our social media. Um Mother's Day tea coming up at Rock Spring. I just posted this on social media today, May 2nd. Um so, you know, check this out on social media. I don't
need to go through all the details uh here. Um I mentioned this at the last council meeting. This is worth mentioning again. Free smoke detector installation program. Uh there are limited quantities. You have to call to reserve one of course and to schedule a installation between May 7th and May
9th. This information is posted on our social media. Uh also we have the junior police uh the junior public safety academy coming up in June. Now, we're still in April, but I mention this because many parents might be looking to
plan out their summer vacation for their children, and this is always a very popular event. The applications are on our website. Um, I also want to bring this up again because I've gotten more uh instances of this happening. Many people, especially some in West Star
here, are getting this uh for uh traffic uh division, and this is a scam. Uh comes from the municipal court of the county, Essex traffic division. uh scam alert. Do not uh click on the QR code. Do not download any information. Uh if
you feel that it's legitimate, do not follow these links. Uh call the court and find out if that perhaps a mistake was made. Most likely if it's this form, it's a um it's a scam. Uh there's a Memorial Day gathering
coming up. Uh this is West Orange Mayor's program for the uniquely gifted. This is at Toby Cat Center. This information is posted on our social media. And I just want to be clear that not to confuse this with our Memorial Day services, our annual Memorial Day
services coming up on May 25th on the steps of town hall at 10:00. We will have more information about this as we get closer. Um uh our Memorial Day ceremony this year will the theme will be the 250th anniversary of uh the uh United States
and of course uh Mayor McCartney announced last week a West Orange program to plant 250 trees in commemoration of America's 250th anniversary and um this uh actually Euan Township in Mercer County had done a
similar program and inspired this program and you can read about this information on our our social media and website. Also, uh the Township of West Orange was awarded a grant for environmental remiation at the Barton
Press site. Uh this information is posted to our social media. Uh so you can read all about the details there. And uh finally um uh speaking about awards, I have to mention someone who deserves an award and that person is my
wife. Uh, today is our 47th wedding anniversary and uh, thank you. Uh, she'd be here, but I had to send her to work normally, can she? So, she had something to do tonight as I did. We're going to celebrate at some point. And, uh, this was Our Lady
of the Lord's church, and I think we were arguing as we got into the car. It was too hot. It was too cold. And our wind has not stopped. >> Very good. Uh but thank you everyone for your uh congratulatory clap and your indulgence. And at this time I'd like to turn the floor over to uh Mr. Plesi.
>> Thank you for sharing that Mr. Fagan. >> Welcome Mr. Mcly. >> Hi Anthony Plesi. Uh representing County Executive Joe Danchenzo. Uh congratulations on your anniversary Joe. Uh 47 more good years to come.
I just have two quick events. Uh May 2nd is the uh household hazardous waste collection day. Uh that goes from 8:30 a.m. to 400 pm. And then May 16th is the computer and electronics uh recycling day. Um that goes from 9:00 a.m. to 3
p.m. Uh both events are at the um public works uh yard in Cedar Grove, which is on Bradford Avenue. Uh it's open for open to west open to all Essex County residents. Um both flyers are on the
website uh and um we look to see you there. It's a great way to get rid of stuff in an in an environmentally friendly manner. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. All right. Now, would you like to come up? >> Hi, Katie Degraphth. Destro. I'm here
representing West Orange aiding neighbors. I'd like to explain very simply why we believe the West Orange Trust Resolution is needed. On February 11th, Governor Cheryl signed Executive Order number 12, which states clear rules for how federal immigration
enforcement can use state-owned property. It requires a judicial warrant to enter non-public areas of state buildings and says state property cannot be used as a staging or operational site. That order applies only to state
property, not municipal property like town hall, recreation facilities, and municipal offices. The New Jersey Immigrant Trust Act established clear procedures for law enforcement regarding cooperation and data sharing. So procedures exist for state property and
for law enforcement. But there is still one place where clear operational procedures do not exist. Municipalities do not necessarily have clear rules. That is the gap. This resolution seeks to bring the same level of clarity and
protection to our municipal property. It does three practical things. One, it sets clear rules for how taxpayerf funded town property can be used. Two, it gives staff guidance about what to do if federal agents request access to
non-public areas. And three, it creates a reporting process so the public knows when federal law enforcement has been in our town. Over a dozen other towns across New Jersey have already adopted similar legislation. In just the past two weeks since we last came to speak at
the town council, Camden and Closter have joined the list. When people feel uncertain, when they don't know what the rules are or how their government will respond, they pull back. They stay home. They don't shop. They don't attend events. They don't participate. We are
all seeing the effects of this fear. Designating non-public administrative areas as protected zones will reduce confusion for staff and ensure that access to sensitive municipal stases is handled consistently rather than defend
depending on ad hoc decisions made during time-sensitive encounters. Public reporting will reduce fear and uncertainty by allowing residents access to clear verified information rather than relying on informal reports and rumors. Thank you for your time. I look
forward to hearing your thoughts on this. >> Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who'd like to talk about this topic? >> And Travers 8 Rainbow Terrace. >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? >> Yeah. And Travers 8 Rainbow Terrace in Orange. >> Thanks for giving us another hearing on
this topic. I'm here to support what Katie was talking about. Um, I circulated to you all this chart which puts a finer point on the gaps that need to be closed at the municipal level. So, I hope you find that helpful. Uh, if you
look at the first column, you see Perez statement. Uh in one of the conversations we had with you all, it came up that the mayor, the former mayor had actually made a statement touching on the idea of immigrant protection in the town and he posted it
in 2017 on the website. It's still there. Um so I wanted to point out that that also doesn't close any gaps. He expresses a lot of warm feelings and support for our immigrant community, but in terms of taking any actions that
would actually have policy or legal protections for them, there are none in that statement. And in fact, excuse me, he concludes by saying, I do not believe we need any declaration, symbolic or otherwise, to reaffirm our commitment to each other. So, just wanted to point
that out because that had come up in conversation. Um the other thing I wanted to mention was that uh Katie has mentioned how many towns and municip municipalities are taking policy and legal stances about immigrant
protection. One of the arguments that they are that's that they are um basing their actions on is this anti-comandeering doctrine. And I wanted to read to you what that is. grounded in the 10th amendment. This
data shows data about it shows that the federal government cannot legally compel a town to use its local budgets or staff to do federal work. resolutions act. Resolutions like the one we're proposing act as a legal
shield for local officials, ensuring that they only act on judicial warrants which provide them with qualified immunity. I want to make one more point in
connection with that. Um, a town employee should make if a town employee should make a wrong call because there's no guidance for them on how to interact with federal immigration authorities. Let's say let's ice into a
non-public facility without a warrant or shares data they shouldn't. That's where legal exposure lies. So rather than attracting legal problems by having a resolution such as this, we actually are
making ourselves vulnerable to legal problems. So in addition to the protective action we need to take to protect our neighbors, we also need to be diligent in protecting the town from any future legal action. Thanks very much. >> Okay. Thank you. Would anyone else like
to talk about this topic? You know, we're going to go by topic so everyone can totally absorb everything there is to know about each one. >> Welcome. >> Um I'm actually going to be speaking about two things, but I do the first part is part of this. So I just want to
make sure that it's included in that. So um Jackie Hendy Beverly Road um I just want to talk about the immigrant trust act and our proposed resolution. As was reiterated before, it was signed by uh the Immigrant Trust Act was signed by
Governor Cheryl last month and it governs what police can do, but it says nothing about what happens when a federal agent walks into say our library or our town hall. So, in plain terms, you know, if our librarian were to encounter a federal agent, there's no guidance on what they should do. Absolutely nothing. The federal
protections that once covered these spaces were rescended in January 2025. And so, this re resolution fills that gap. It uses the township's own prop property authority to require a court-ordered court issued warrant for access to
non-public areas with a reporting chain if that's tested. West Orange, this is my frustration, is increasingly an outlier in its own county. Newark issued an executive order in March. Bloomfield voted 5 to1. Monontlair passed the same
measure one week ago. South Orange and Maplewood have sanctuary resolutions since 2017. East Orange held a public know your rights form in February, making clear that ICE needs a judicial warrant for school property. West Orange should not be the last community yet
again to act. Now on to the budget and I want to be very specific because yesterday revealed a pattern that West Orange residents need to deserve to understand fully. So I'm starting with pilots because if those of you don't know a pilot is a payment in lie of taxes instead of paying pra property
taxes like we do a developer negotiates a separate fee with the township and they're often sold to residents as a win new development new revenue but yesterday we heard that two of our major pilots are underperforming was referenced multiple times yesterday in connection with declining pilot
revenue. I'm assuming that's referring to Edison Lofts on Main Street, but I'm willing clarification from the administration if I have that wrong. Either way, the underlying concern stands both Stonehill and the Prism development have bonds attached to them. And this is what that means in plain
terms. When the township approved these develop developments, they borrowed money upfront to pay for the infrastructure. That's the roads, the utilities, the site work. And that that's what makes these projects possible. The developer then pays their annual pilot fee, but a portion of that
fee is already legally pledged to pay back that debt. It never reaches you, and it cannot offset your taxes. So, think of it this way. The township was promised a paycheck, but a chunk of it is already garnished before it arrives. And when these deals were presented to residents, that garnishment wasn't
disclosed. We were shown the gross number, not the net. The CFO acknowledged yesterday that the structure was not clearly communicated to the public when these deals were struck. They were presented as revenue generators. They are not performing as promised and the fine print was not
disclosed. And here's a direct consequence that hit every taxpayer this year. Stone Hill was incorrectly left on the tax roles in 2025, meaning that the township was counting 54 million in property value that shouldn't have been there. And that error affects every single property tax bill in West Orange.
The CFO couldn't explain how it happened and residents deserve an answer. This is a large pattern of deferred decisions and missing analysis. DPW went from 63 to 23 over 40 years. Why? No plan, no model, and now we're paying outside
contractors $575 an hour. And this winter's snow removal alone boomed the budget by $2.3 million. The CFO acknowledged yesterday that no cost analysis has ever been done to evaluate whether we're making the right decisions. We don't know. Four
resolutions offering over 1.1 million in accumulated employee payouts were on tonight's agenda and have very recently been removed. Don't know why, but I'd like to ask the council to ensure that when they do come back that there is clear public explanation of how these long-term obligations are modeled,
disclosed, and planned for. Yesterday, I observed this council generally trying to do oversight. So, I thank you. Um, but without in with this is done with incomplete information because the analytical tools needed to make sound decisions don't exist in this township.
That's the through line here. Both come down to the same question. What does West Orange have the processes and transparency to govern responsibly? Do residents know what deals were made on their behalf, what they cost, and who is accountable when they don't deliver? So
that's what I'm asking tonight. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Would anyone else like to talk about the immigrant trust act? >> No. >> Okay. Seeing none. Um was there anyone else on this side of
the room? Come on up. Mr. Scott. Good evening. >> Good evening. Brent grape Scott Nesterro Road. Uh, tonight I'd like to address two things. Um, I have not been here and not spoken in some time and I have
watched council hearings online and sometimes people text me and ask me about seeing this that this that or the other that they found outrageous. Uh recently I must have watched about seven council hearings online
and I was very dismayed by two things. The first is the business administrator Mr. Smearaldo. I have noticed continually that he speaks to Councilwoman Joyce
Ruden in a dismissive, derissive, and disrespectful manner. You work for Mayor McCartney and you're representing her speaking to a member of the council in a dismissive, derisive, and disrespectful manner.
I happen to know the mayor. I have said at this very platform, I think she's a very kind person. I don't think she's a petty person. So why this petty behavior when speaking to Councilwoman Ruden? I don't appreciate it as a resident.
Councilwoman Ruden has a master's degree in journalism. She has worked for one of the most respected news organizations in America, NPR, and Consumer Reports TV. She has her bonafides. She knows what she is doing.
She looks into things the way nearly 11,000 voters in this town voted for her to do. And that deserves respect, not derisiveness, not dismissiveness. And I would hope that going forward, Mr. Smearaldo and every other appointed
administrator in this town would show respect to all of the members of this council. Just as this counsel as the mayor sat on his council for 23 years, I have never heard anyone shout at her from any administration that happened to be in
office at the time. Everyone has been respectful. So why is Mr. Smearaldo conducting himself in such a petty and disrespectful manner and I hope that going forward he will discontinue and break with that habit. Finally, I'd like to address something
by a fellow restaurant resident, Mr. Doug Adams. I have never met Mr. Adams personally or shook his hand. We've been in the same place many times, but I don't know him. But about two council meetings ago, he said something that I found very disturbing.
He claimed that Councilwoman Ruden was basically picking on council member Williams uh by asking her to account if she was going to vote for contracts from people who had given her money. I don't find that picking on anyone. I
find that again, Councilwoman Ruden doing her due diligence and doing her job and bringing to the four something that is questionable because it is a short step from questionable to unethical and an even shorter step from unethical
to downright illegal. And I would hope Councilwoman Williams would consider that and not respond. I don't have to answer. I have seen too many elected officials go down.
Just last week, Congresswoman Sheila McCormack from Florida resigned due to financial irregularities. In my home state of Louisiana, a once brilliant and promising politician, a Harvard lawyer, Bill Jefferson, went to
jail. So did his sister, a PhD, Betty Jefferson, and his brother, Mos Jefferson. It is often said that sometimes we forget that we're not meant to fly. And when you fly too close to the sun, you
discover those wings are made of wax. So I would say to Councilwoman Williams, I'm going to quote a uh famous singer here. Rich relations give crust of bread and such. You can help yourself, but don't take
too much. And don't tell the public you don't have to answer. And Mr. Adams, I would say to you, no, just because Councilwoman Williams is a minority, as am I, doesn't mean she has to take money from contractors and people trying to do
business with this township and then voting on those very contracts. That is questionable. And again, it is a very short step from questionable to unethical and an even shorter step from unethical
to downright illegal. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, >> Miss Sylvestri, welcome. Good evening, Claire Sylvestri, 20 Grand Avenue. I just want to talk a little bit about the budget hearing last night. I was able to uh attend about the last two
and a half hours in person and then I watched at lunchtime today the fir about the first hour of the budget hearing and I just had a few questions and comments. The one one question I had was I've been attending budget hearings for more than
20 years and yesterday's budget hearing opened with public comment which is something that we have never had and it was a little bit chaotic. I didn't quite understand what the purpose was if this is going to be something going forward
for each budget hearing but I'd like a little clarification on that. Um, also to follow up on the on one of the previous um, speakers comments about the pilots. It was rather disheartening to hear about the revenue that's being
generated for the pilots. Again, I can remember speaking up quite often about the Edison project as well as the Stonehill project and my concerns about pilots and um uh we were sold a very
different story. And I just uh would would ask, especially since another speaker has asked about it too, if Mr. Datiniac this evening could just elaborate a little bit more on what's going on there and and why we are losing revenue. Uh, another thing that was
disheartening was to see and this was partly because of the pilots that our tax base has declined in the last year because that's what makes it makes our tax increase larger. And I know that it's going to be very difficult for the
council this year to find things to cut after um all of the work that was done last year to to bring down the potential 7% tax increase. But I also want to caution the council. Um, yesterday was a five and a half hour budget hearing. Mr.
Jatiniac at the beginning uh said that there were going to be three departments that would be heard la uh yesterday and that public works would take about an hour and a half. I showed up at 7:15 and public works was still being discussed.
Um if we continue if the council continues with that kind of timeline I fear we are going to be in the same situation we were last year. Um my understanding was I thought earlier this year that the council had approved a set
of uh procedures on how you would be running the meetings um the budget hearings going forward and that the council had approved that unanimously. I didn't see any of that uh last night and I just wonder if you if uh you could
elaborate on that. Thank you. >> Okay. Yes. Come on up. Rachel, welcome. Um, Rachel Klene, Howell Drive, formerly of Woodland Avenue. And I bring that up because I want to thank the council for finally dealing with the issue of
Woodland Avenue that's been going on for more than two decades since parents have started driving their children more to the school at Redwood. It's just um it's a circus in the mornings and it's been noticeably different and safer. safer
for residents, safer for children who walk to school, dog walkers for everyone. I know that some parents are unhappy that they can't park where they want to park, that they have to park further away to walk their children, but to those parents, I say, you just, you sound to me like antivaxers where you
just want to hear, you know, it's about your kid and you're not thinking about the bigger picture and the other people affected by your decision. And I lived on an Avenue when a boy was killed at Redwood School. Um, and right after he
died, they stopped allowing parking on the side of the school for safety. And no one batted in an eye. Everyone said that was a correct decision. So, you guys were proactive. And hopefully, um, you know, as we continue, we'll continue to be proactive. On the flip side, um,
as you're entering into conversations with developers, we really have to address the sewer issues in town. There was a sewer backup again three weeks ago Sunday. Um, and it was a backup of the Pleasant Valley Way line and it backed
up into the uh synagogue uh parking lot, also a preschool parking lot. And it was at about 9:30 at night on a Sunday night. For some reason, my family is the sewer family that gets called out to this. And um we have video. It's disgusting. It go and not only does it
go down the parking lot of a preschool and a synagogue, it goes to wetlands and it goes right to um an assisted living facility and then it goes into the Peekman Creek down behind another assisted living facility. This is due to
the sewer just being over capacity. My husband was there. He was there when DPW picked up the manhole cover. He looked down at it. He said that the flow was almost at the top, almost at street level. And we are looking to add thousands of
homes, thousands of toilets, let me put it that way, to this one line. It's baffling. Look, the line is old. We've had a lot of construction developments. We need to really think about what we're adding to it now. Maybe we should pause,
do a study, as uh Miss Carvalo said at the November 10th hearing, and then address the issue. Is it capacity? Make it bigger. Is are there breaks? Fix them. It's going to cost money, but it's got to be done. We can't have raw sewage
running rampant around town that it's just it's unhealthy. It's it's horrible and it makes it disappoints me that it's been going on for so long and it's solvable, but it's going to be painful to solve, but I think it's something that will have to be addressed. Thank you.
>> Thank you for bringing up such an important topic. unpleasant but very important. Is there anyone else on this side of the room who would like to speak? No. Um, Miss Bennett. >> Uh, good evening, Michaela Bennett. Uh,
Old Indian Road. Um, so I wanted to uh address C126-26. Um, I think I heard a neighbor mention that um, personnel retirey payouts is no longer going to be
discussed during executive session. I don't know if that's true or not. So, um, at the risk of her being incorrect or inaccurate and because it's on the, uh, agenda, um, I hope that you all had received the
email that I had written earlier. Um, and would like to reiterate, um, to make sure that it's on the record that tomorrow I will be with law enforcement regarding payouts and individuals.
um from this township and I've shared with you and um I know that uh Mr. Samero has received um communication from state authorities as well. Um I heard from them and uh I I was assured
by them that they've communicated directly with Mr. Samero. So you should have it on good authority that more than one authority is currently researching the payouts. um pending their investigation um and under an active subpoena. And so
I would urge you not to consider any payouts until all investigations are deemed complete and uh you have the results of those investigations. Um uh D on the agenda 127-26.
Um, this is regarding the authorization to purchase a firet truck that is, I think my math is correct, 20 years old. Um, last night you heard from the administration about
uh a fire truck, I believe that was 20 years old costing this township $73,000. I would strongly urge you to do your due diligence before approving any expenditure of $200,000
um for a vehicle of that age. And until you have a clear sense um of our fleet and the the status and condition of our fleet, I I I do want our public safety
officials to have what our public safety um first responders to have what they need um in order to keep us safe. But let's make smart decisions around um infrastructure. And to that end, I would
ask you all to seek and receive um an accounting. We all started paying more for sewer many years ago. I don't remember when. So, we shouldn't be hearing stories about sewer lines being at capacity if we were developing
um a sewer fund in excess of what was necessary to address infrastructure needs. Um, so I would encourage you to make sure that you know exactly what happened with all that extra sewer money and where that extra fund is. Um,
lastly, in addition to the communication that I sent regarding investigations, pending investigations, I also asked you something that I raised last time I spoke, which was executive session minutes. I've been looking I've been waiting to see executive session minutes posted to the website as they are
required to be done to um be posted. I've seen none um when it once an executive session minutes no longer need to be maintained confidentially. They should be up on the website. There are none on the website that I am aware of and that should be corrected um as soon
as possible. And then I would just like to say um and I'll finish actually before my time that uh I I echo and amplify uh what Mr. Brent Draper Scott just uh stated as you well know I sit in
this room quite often during your um council meetings and every single person here should be showing each other a level of dignity and respect that your office or your salary um should dictate. Thank you. Thank you very much.
>> Uh, who on this side? >> Okay, come on up. You missed it. I talked about we care before. >> Uh, Joseph Panulo, uh, 200 foot notice area, West Essex Highlands. I live in the six spells. Um,
come up with for a few reasons, a few things. Uh last time when I was here, I think it's about a month ago, there were two topics that came up. I'd like to pick up one, ask a question about the other. One was I presented and left behind packages of information that were
delivered by the D in January of field notes from 2018 and 19 on the upper wetlands and the entire block 17932, the entire 120 acres of the highlands. like to know if anything has happened
with that. I also attached a a series of documents including reports and information from the DP that was supplied back in January. That's one. Two. At the end, I left a couple of pages from the state development redevelopment plan published in December
of last year covering specifics with regard to the Ramapo Lape nation. the rights the chief of the nation came right here where I'm standing during planning board to give public comment was denied giving information leaving or
entering information into a record there are facts that are not on the record that if there are protected sacred artifacts that are on that site and they're documented but nobody's got them and so in consistent with the policy of the SDP to Governor John Cororsine
executive orders going back 20 years there's a duty or an obligation report someone here if this is a sensitive town to sacred artifacts indigenous people go to the town website and read the history of the town it's right up front a little
respect I think is an order I'm asking the question because it was I would I don't know where to provide it the chief came wasn't received it was rejected evidence at planning board in the west we ware west island application was
closed January 14th there's a meeting. Next meeting I believe is May 6th and I think we expect a vote. Uh I'll come back to that in a minute. There was one other comment that was made here after I spoke directed to this council and a prior council. And as someone who's
spent thousands of hours studying the history, though I wasn't here back in 2020 when it started, I would like to just explain something to the public and make sure people understand at the time in 2020 and now in Essex County due to builder's remedy lawsuits against the
township for units that are greater than the obligation of the town that doesn't necessarily have an affirmative defense for because there's not a compliant plan yet on file. Those revenues are being fought by the town. They'll have to be negotiated out. You'll end up with more
than 165, which is the obligation after a vacant land adjustment. In 2020, there were two intervenors in the third round. One was West Sussex Highlands, the other was Redwood. They had a different leverage that a builder's remedy doesn't give. They had
negotiated for the entire town's plan. And this prior council, not everyone here on the council now, but then were essentially under a gun. We're told with the force of what would become a court order, a negotiation, and the leverage
exerted by an intervenor to get what it wanted. There is no other there's no other lot, tax lot in this town where bulk design environmental ordinances are suspended in this town. There's not one. They're suspended here. There's a reason
and that wasn't part of what was initially negotiated on fair housing in the court and there were a series of documents that were not made available to the court or fair share housing in round three that are were made available in round four directly to your town planner affordable housing planner and
now town planner that demonstrate why this site does not meet eligibility criteria under the law. Uh there are four prongs. That said, I it was suggested that maybe this town council could do something to change an ordinance on what was passed on November
20th, 2020 when the ordinance 2614-20. I think unfortunately love to see you do it, but I think it would be a mistake. The round the 30th 20 board meeting is coming up. The ordinance that was coerced at the time is what it was. You're in the same position now. And I'm
trying to come to the defense of anybody that was here then, some of you are here now. It's a tough spot to have been in then, it's a tough spot to be in now to deal with and and resolve negotiate the existing builder's remedies against the town. And the last point I'd like to
make and I'd invite the town attorney if you would. The disclosure to the people in the town about or discussion about what's under litigation can't be discussed is fair generally, but the town is a defendant in five or six lawsuits. I believe the court has
consolidated those cases into 88625. There's another motion pending. My time is up, but I think it would be reasonable to tell the town not a position to put on the facts. You should go any Thank you. I appreciate. >> Thank you, Mr. Panulo. Is there anyone else?
Mr. Goldsman. >> Um, good evening, Justin Goldzman, Moran Road. Um, first I just want to tie up a loose a couple loose ends from over the last couple months that I've asked about. Um, so a couple months ago I asked if there was any way that our emergency robo dials and updates can go out in both English and Spanish. I'm
just circling back to see if that's been able to be done. Um, I also brought up several months ago about the current reporting structure of the civilian community, uh, the CCB, and I'm just wondering if that oversight has changed at all. There was a lot of head nodding up here when I brought that up. It's not
out of a slight to anybody. We we all agreed that people shouldn't be overseeing their own investigations potentially. Just following up if that was if that had been moved on at all. Um, we haven't heard about any updates on the parking permits in the alphabet streets for a while. Just seeing where
we're at with that. Um, two clarifying procedural questions. Um, so first, thank you for the budget meeting last night. It was a good exercise in transparency and democracy and to the CBA. Thank you. I'm curious as to where the appropriate venue is for public comment. Public comment at the start of
a presentation before the presentation is given doesn't allow feedback. that's helpful because now I have to come up here and talk about it retroactively after those departments were already met with. So I'm just curious is it emails to you? What is your best mechanism to it? Um and then also just a clarifying
question on the structure of how we're doing public comment in council meetings. I know we're doing them by topic. If we come up we have one topic to talk about. Should we sit down if the topic's over? I'm I'm just asking what qualifies as on topic or not. Um but diligently did read the entire budget
with my highlighter. um some out external factors that public comment would be helpful to consider and perhaps the CFO is on top of it. I'm sure he is. But New Jersey is currently in heavy discussion about a proposed sales tax increase for uh during the World Cup
that is coming down the pike that will be decided within the next couple weeks. So, some recommendations because we can be reimbursed as New Jersey residents for those taxes. Buy what we need before those sales taxes hit. be prepared to be extra diligent with
count with municipal receipts so that we're not being re reimbursed for money that we lost and can't claim those reimbursements. Uh make sure our businesses are aware of that because when they lose out on revenue, our tax revenue also goes down and make sure everyone in the public knows keep your receipts so you can get your
reimbursements. Um in the DPW budget, uh we discussed the drainage costs. Rachel, you just brought it up. Wondering if there was any way that we can analyze the topic that I've talked about, how much we would save with a storm water utility and how much that would free up in our municipal budget just like
Maplewood does. Um, also topical to the budget last night, start of this year, last day in office, Governor Murphy signed a bit two bills, A5223 and A5195, which I helped work on um while I was in the assembly. This bill relates to the presence of POS in firefighter
equipment. The bill essentially moves the vendors, you can no longer sell or you will no longer be able to sell equipment to our fire department who are our heroes that contain deadly chemicals. That is not only the right thing to do, it is a budgetary consideration to be planning. If we need
to find a new vendor, I would recommend looking now before it becomes supply and demand and we are priced out of them. Um, LED lights save about 75 to 80% on electric cost versus incandescent bulbs. Couple months ago, Councilwoman Ruden, I remember, brought up when we were talking about light bulb reimbursements
for private condominiums. We didn't have or at least at that meeting didn't have an accurate map that was presented to us about how many lights were of each type. I think that's a budgetary discussion worth having if we can find savings about switching to LEDs versus incandescent. Um, there were some other
things in the DPW budget, but I won't get into that. But, um, the safe on the agenda tonight, the safe streets to school grant, very excited. There's uh there's a budget item in the budget for $15,000 for street signage and traffic. It's on page 142. Just wondering if that
safe street grant will either cause new signage that will be needed, ameliorate the amount of signs, if there's any duplicative costs that we can find in savings with that budget um on the retirement benefit payouts. I'm sure we can all agree we should be addressing those for future contracts and moving
away from that type of uh those type of payouts. Um, and lastly, I brought this up before, but I drafted an ordinance regarding the interference and influence of artificial intelligence in our elections. Um, spoke about the need to regulate and disclose this practice.
It's bad for utility bills. It's bad for democracy. It's bad for spamming things. But proactively, this bill is modeled after the state bill. Senator Stack and Assemblyman Weinstein's bill did not include any of the proposed penalties. That can be up to you to decide what you think is the best way to uh curtail this
behavior, but I think for the best sake of our democracy, we should at least have disclosures when things are produced by robots. So, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else for public comment? >> No. Okay. Seeing none, we'll close
public comment. Um there were many many um issues that I think I'd like our administration or maybe legal to address and our chief um before we give our public comment. There were some related
to the immigrant trust act which I I'd like you to talk about. There were some um issues related to the um the the various uh contracts. Um Mr. Dutiniac,
there was the issue that we I I had asked about last night about the pilots, which I think is something that you need to cover in detail. And um Miss Carbalo, the storm water issues that were brought up, I think are
um something that you you probably could address. So I don't know who want maybe you want to start with the uh immigrant antirust. >> You want to speak to that? >> Yeah, speak to that and then if you want to speak to the other right after about
>> first I'd like to apologize. I know that people don't come to these council meetings to watch a fashion show, but I left my tie in my office. >> Beautiful. >> So, I didn't want people to take this as a sign of disrespect. I I thought that I had it with me.
>> Um the uh issue uh associated with um the requests that were made this evening. Uh I don't have a dog in the fight. Obviously, I'm I'm a a tool for the the
governing body's uh intent. Uh I'm not going to pretend that I understand or know all the implications of all the laws that would be impacted uh by the requests
uh contained in that resolution. Uh they are farreaching. they will necessitate a fairly significant investment of time uh to research uh the legal implications of
what's being requested. Uh and if that's something that the governing body was inclined to explore, we we would have to do that. uh and and it might behoo us uh to see if I could locate a firm that
could do that more efficiently than me if they specialize in the areas of law that are impacted by it. Mhm. >> Um I know that at least with respect to the immigrant trust act initially that the uh chief of police weighed in
and maybe that was a little bit easier of a response because the attorney general got involved and had some regulations that pertained to law enforcement which which he readily has to follow. Um I I don't know but I
suspect that there's probably some inferences to be garnered from the fact that uh the governor and the legislature have not imposed the requirements that are being proposed with regard to the use of municipal property.
Um but I'm just identifying issues that I'd have to look at. So, I'd certainly look at it if I'm instructed to do uh that. I would uh look for specialized counsel if I was instructed to do that. Uh but unfortunately I I can't uh in a
vacuum articulate the merit of of everything in that resolution uh and and say that it uh passing it or enforcing uh the intent of it >> would insulate the governing body or the
burrow from liability. Conversely, I do have to take exception with one of the statements that was made. Um, I don't think that if the a burough employee was acting in good faith and
cooperating with the federal government, uh, that they would be, uh, subject to liability. I mean, uh, there, uh, the there's good faith exemptions or immunities that are associated with their actions. Obviously,
uh that doesn't mean that they don't get sued, right? So, if hypothetically speaking, a federal law enforcement officer was violating the law and to the point where someone filed a lawsuit and one of our employees or officers was
involved, you probably could guarantee we're also going to be sued under an allegation of conspiracy. Uh but that doesn't mean that's going to be successful. Um, these are just factors to consider. You know, you never could insulate yourself
from lawsuits or you could just protect yourself from liability. >> Um, but anyway, I digressed a little bit. If I'm instructed to to to to research it, I'll I'll certainly do that as I had indicated, but I but I don't have answers to that now.
>> Okay. Thank you. It sounds like quite a bit of time and money. Um, also did you want to talk at all about any of the issues about the contracts that we've taken off the address any of um, Mrs. Bennett's concern or to the degree that
we should >> uh, talk about? Well, I look I I I think I would just ask the public to understand that the governing body as an employer has a different
uh set of obligations than the public does. So the public may be very well knowledgeable of certain things. uh and just because we don't speak about it doesn't shouldn't be inferred to say
anything affirmative or negative about what may be out in the public domain. Uh it's just the fact that as an employer you're you're should exercise a certain degree of confidentiality when it comes to personnel issues. Um, so I I would
just like to reiterate and and people could draw whatever inference they wish from it. >> Uh, that those uh resolutions were withdrawn. >> Mhm. >> And uh they're tabled at this point in time. They're not being rescheduled for
a council meeting and uh at some point in time they may very well be on >> again. But I don't know that I would feel comfortable saying anything beyond. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um, Mr. Jatiniac, could you address a little bit about
>> Thank um so um I appreciate all the the comments from from the public. Um, Miss Jackie, I I'm sorry I don't I write your last name down all the time and I don't think I write it down correctly, so I'm not even going to try to say it. um you
know, your comments about uh some some of the things that were said last night at the budget hearing, me not having an answer uh for the $54 million ratable um change, why that happened. Um you're right, is the public is owed an explanation for that and I will make
sure that the the assessor writes up a memorandum that I'll share with with the public at the next meeting. Um, regarding the pilots, uh, you know, I don't want to shoot from the hip and and just try to spout out, uh, you know,
revenue figures for the pilots. I think what is owed to everyone up here and everyone out there and everyone at home is we'll put together a report on all of our pilots on their past performance and and what we are anticipating for the life uh of those pilots based on those
financial agreements, taking into account and and sharing with the public any of those agreements that have redevelopment area bonds such as uh we talked about with Stonehill attached to them where there's pledged and unpledged revenue along with our our estimates of what will go to the county of Essex for
their 5% share on those applicable pilots. So, we'll put that report together, share that with uh uh with the council and and the public. And I I think that's the best way to deal with it rather than me just try to think of, you know, well, what's the anticipated
figure for next year? >> Is this mic on? Can we hear me? we can >> um uh so you know I'm pledging >> to do that um uh for the governing body and we'll make it part of the the budget
presentations as well. Um I want to thank uh CBA last night for their participation in in our first budget hearing. I I think it was an excellent budget hearing. Um, again going back to sort of analysis um that that Jackie and again sorry you
disrespectful using your first name Jackie brought up um you know we didn't have that analysis on hand for um things like leaf collection options and and the snow plowing. Um so you know this conversation that we had yesterday
sparks analysis and we are working on uh a survey of we have 11 communities what they do for leaves and and looking at our own process and what are our options you know bagging not picking up leaves um uh uh setting fire to them in front
of the houses. No, that's not a real option. Um, so we want to look at those different options and price these things out so that we can come back to the council at some point um with real data or you know at least the best data we can put together so we can make these
decisions in in a more informed way. Same thing with um you know with snow removal. So uh I think as we work together you know we're going to solve the the big issues in in town. So, um, I appreciate everybody's feedback even
though sometimes it looks like I'm miserable and in pain. It's just the kind of person I am. I am >> an accountant. I'm pretty miserable. So, um, >> Oh, no. You're poor. >> You know, I I understand, you know, who I work for and I love working for the
residents. I'm not making a political speech here, but I do want to say I I I do love what I do. I love the process and u you know we're going to continue to try to do better every single day and uh I think that's it. >> Well, I just want to thank you for all
your hard work because I know the amount of cleanup on aisle one you've done since the day you've gotten here and I know how hard you're working and I know you're doing as much analysis as you can and as each and every one of these issues are brought to your attention, you're taking them all on. Yeah, appreciate that. We're definitely
listening to the public and trying to do as much as as it's a small staff that I have that that we can. So, >> yeah. >> Council President, >> I just want to add one more issue that was that was um brought up by um Miss Bennett.
>> Um the sewer the sewer fees. >> Yes. >> We all saw them go up. We're all paying around $500 and we were told that it would be dedicated and the purpose of this was to improve our sewer system. Where is that money? What has been
spent? >> How much is in it? And what is it? What is it being used for? >> So a >> can we also get a report of of that account? >> General fund. >> So So the sewer fee charge is part of
the general fund. Um we also pay our joint meeting which is a significant you know $4 million charge out of the general fund. So um you could say part of that fee goes
to pay the joint meeting and then we have debt out there when we fix pump stations or do sewer repairs that again you could sort of say that that money is is partially paying for that work. Now
what many municipalities do is they would create their own separate sewer utility um like we have a swimming pool utility. The swimming pool utility those user fees so anybody that actually pays for a membership are paying for the
pool. So if you don't go to the pool you don't pay for the pool and and many municipalities will do that. They'll segregate their sewer and water charges. Now, we don't have a water utility because of American water. Um, but
we can look at potentially creating a sewer utility in which case those fees would truly be dedicated for not only paying for joint meeting, but we would have our own separate sewer capital. So, we would have the fund
would if we're building a new pump station or we're putting in new lines for sewer, we would issue sewer capital bonds and that would be paid for by fees. That would be the right way to properly segregate that sewer fee. As it
stands now, I'll I'll be honest, there's no hiding it. The sewer fee is is just another revenue to offset all of the operations of the township. There's
no hiding that's it's a general fee in in the anticipated revenues. I don't think I'm saying anything that's >> So I I really appreciate your honesty and putting that out there, but I think that the public was sold sold a bill of goods and we were told that it was going specifically for sewer repairs. And I'd
like to know how quickly we can get that fund established so that all future money goes into a dedicated fund. >> So we would have to go the process would be first of all we would have to figure out what costs would be allocated to the
sewer utility and then we would have to go ahead and make application to the local finance board and get the state's approval to create the sewer utility fund. And you know, our bond council would be involved
in this. Our uh um our auditors would be involved in this. It's a it's a pretty significant effort to create a new utility. But we have to look at the financial
implications because >> manage >> if we if we pull a lot out of general fund and now you have all this going into the sewer utility, we're going to be building up the sewer utility fund pretty significantly.
And the offset would be we'd need to raise taxes to make up for that loss of 9 million plus dollars. So we need to be very careful in in in how we go about this so that we're not
creating this massive valley in in lost revenue. That's how do you make it up? We make things up with taxes. I mean, we we collect as much miscellaneous revenue as we can, but you know, there's only so
many fees and permits that we can sell a year, and there's only so much delinquent tax we can bring in. The major revenue driver for any municipality is taxation. So, it you have to really look at it and and
understand the implications of it. So, >> do I think it's a worthwhile um project? Absolutely. considering our sewer issues and I think when we one day map everything out
and we have a true understanding of current value uh you know current period cost of replacing all those lines which I'm sure our engineer has in her head is you know
many tens of millions of dollars that sewer utility is going to be important in order to to actually bond for that work and keep that work segregated. Um, I know that's sort of a long-winded answer, but it's a complex process that
I can't I can't give you, you know, a number right now of like what will it change in terms of taxation, but it it it's worth looking at, but I don't know if it's going to be
like the magic um, you know, change to to to reduce taxes and to reduce these fees because uh again it's offset it's it's paying for a lot of operating expenses right
now. It's >> essentially the town town people were given another tax but the tax was hidden >> in the sewer in the sewer bill and now we don't have the money to deal with our
sewer problem and we're seeing the consequences of that. >> Council President have a discussion wants to just weigh in. >> Yeah, I'm I'm getting a little frustrated here because councilwoman, first of all, you know, we're we're you know, when we have our comments, I don't want this take up from my time from the
comments, but I was on the council at that point at time. We were fully aware as was the public that that those funds were going to our general general uh fund. So there was there wasn't any confusion or any misleading
done at that time. We could say what we want about the the former CFO. Um but in regards to this situation and what happened, none of us were happy we had to raise the sewer taxes. We were not happy. The joint commission, we had a lot of bonding that we had to do. We
know throughout the state, not just with us, there is a crisis with the sewer systems. and we are are are a township that has very old infrastructure and these things aren't happy. They're not pleasant. It it's it's a lot that we're going through. I appreciate Miss
Klein um uh coming here this evening and and you know expressing what she saw um because residents need to see that that the dire straits that were in. But to let the public say and think that you know there was something that went on
that didn't is is really not fair. and I don't appreciate those comments and I'll reserve my the rest of my comments for when it's my turn. Thank you. >> So before I ask Miss Carbalo to talk about the sewer, one more thing I just wanted to ask Mr. uh Samra to um Mr.
Panulo made a couple of had a couple of questions about the our obligations with the artifacts and the field notes with DPW. Is there anything that we you can shed light on in that area? I'm on the planning board, so I tend not to talk
about the issues of your >> Well, I I I guess a couple of things. And uh the first thing that I would uh like to know, as you know, I I did provide some guidance uh to members of the governing body with respect to
commenting on this application. >> Uh and and I'll just re repeat that that that should not happen. M >> uh we uh are uh privy to a settlement agreement. >> Mhm. >> And uh we shouldn't be taking any steps
that could be interpreted by a third party to be influencing uh the objectivity and autonomous nature of of the planning board. Um with respect to um the comments about artifacts and the
like uh I'm not aware of any authority that the burrow has to obligate people uh to treat uh artifacts.
Uh however I think that the issue of the artifacts comes into play when it's being developed. I mean, I've seen situations where uh construction has been halted uh because of artifacts and I and I've seen that take place
uh even after uh an approval was granted. Uh so to the extent that there is a a role for uh the uh township to play in that regard, I I don't think that it comes into play yet. Mhm.
>> Um I think that if there were objectors to the board, then they probably could have made some reference to things of that nature that could have been addressed by the board. But right now, there's an application before the board. Uh from I guess what I understand, uh
the uh application is now closed. Um and the board is going to be making its decision. >> Um uh I'd like to thank Mr. for for understanding and respecting the difficult position that the governing body is in. >> Mhm.
>> Um and and he's right. Uh he did make reference to the fact that uh a solution doesn't lie with the ability to change the ordinance. >> Um and I imagine he's talking about the zoning ordinance. >> Um
and uh he's 100% correct for a couple of reasons. Not the least of which is that the board's obligated to apply the ordinance that was in place at the time of the application pending. >> Mhm. >> Um so if you were to rescend it, it
doesn't change the fact that the board could uh or must actually rely upon it. Uh secondly, uh you're uh we're under an obligation by virtue of the settlement agreement to pass that ordinance. So you definitely would be breaching that agreement and subjecting the township to
liability. So uh there there really isn't anything uh that the township should consider >> as an entity to frustrate the development of that site. And take my
advice and put it to the side. Hypothetically speaking, if you were successful in doing that and if you weren't subject to any liability, those two things are significantly in question. But if those two hypotheticals
were true, then we'd be confronted with having to relocate the development that was earmarked for that site elsewhere within the township. So it's not like you are just walking away from the obligation. um that obligation uh was built into a
resolution as part of the third round plan and that's also playing a role with respect to the now fourth round plan that we're in the midst of. >> Um and I guess the last thing that Mr. Pillo uh brought up was an update for the public. I guess maybe it's a good
time for me to touch on that. >> Go ahead. >> Okay, so we are aware of the fact that there were five builders remedyed lawsuits initially filed. Uh I filed a declaratory judgment action which saw as relief uh immunity while we developed a
fourth round plan. Um since that point in time, a sixth builder's remedy lawsuit, it was filed a few days after that DJ action was filed. uh that particular builder's remedy lawsuit
uh relates to and I wasn't prepared to discuss this tonight but I think it was 110 Main Street if I recall correctly >> uh which was a recent yes >> application that was denied. >> Um that one's in a different category
than the other ones. the the filing of the uh action. Uh it matters if it's before or after the filing of the declaratory judgement action. >> Uh so we'll see if it's if it's treated differently or not. Um
I did file an a motion. We did have case management conference. We did appear before court. Uh the judge wanted a motion filed uh seeking immunity. Uh and uh that motion was filed seeking
immunity retroactively to the date of the declaratory judgment action filing which puts us in the position that I had just articulated to. >> Uh so we do know that we are contending with these builder remedy lawsuits. Um
uh but uh I am hopeful uh that uh we're going to prevail on the uh motion for immunity >> and then we'll do what's necessary. I anticipate that the court will provide us a schedule of milestones that we must uh meet in order to maintain uh the
immunity and in the interimm we are trying to uh negotiate the most favorable resolution to all those claims. >> Okay, great. Thank you. I I thank you for being so thorough. I appreciate it. >> Mrs. Cabalo, you want to briefly just address, I know you've done it before up
here, our storm water issues and sewer issues. >> Council President, could I just step in just to uh clarify something Mr. Samero said, it's 410 Main Street. That's the name of the company that that did it. >> When you when you hear 410 Main Street,
half the eyes in the the township go, "Oh, yeah. Yeah." because it was a very controversial >> uh turn down of the >> Thank you for clarifying that council. >> Sorry. >> Great comments. >> So, good evening everyone. Um with
regards to the storm water utility, I will say the first thing to do will basically need to do a physibility study in order to understand what the needs of the township are and they typically are based on the needs of the township and also financial. Um, in order for us to
be able to do that, we also need to know how much of that infrastructure is actually in decayed or in need of replacement. Um, we're currently mapping the township. We don't have the conditions of the storm water. We're basically mapping it
in order to be in compliance with NJPMS MS4 permit. Um, I did speak to our CFO last week in regards to this and to come in front of you with a bone ordinance
for finishing up the mapping of the um storm water as well as the um sanitary sewer which we haven't even started and also to assess the conditions of the same. So, it would definitely be a
couple of million dollars. What we're going to be asking for, what I could say to the public and to everyone in this room is that it is a process. It's not the type of work that will be done overnight.
Um, and with regards to the sanitary sewer systems, this happened on Sunday. We all know the heavy rainfall event that we had on Saturday for most of the day. This is not uncommon. Um, a lot of our
sewers are made out of clay. Typically, this pipes do have a lot of uh infiltration. So, not only do you have flushing toilets, but you also have rain in filtering into the system as well as
groundwater. I will say that West Honors does have a high groundwater table. Um so this is not uncommon. It is unfortunate but I am hopeful that if we do stick to a
plan and one day we do have everything mapped and we do know for sure what needs to be fixed and we have a plan and we develop a plan for basically taking care of the infrastructure that this type of issues will be less and less
seen by the public like gross sewage running down the street. So, like I said, if the township wants to go for a Stonewater Utility, the first step would be a physibility study, and that would be in the range of probably over $100,000 or so. Back in 2022, I know
that DP did have a technical assistance program for municipalities. I wish they will put something more out or more grants for this type of U initiative, but we missed that one. So, >> does the mayor have her eye on that for
our grant writers to get >> Yes, we have discussed this uh actually with the grant writers to keep an eye on the uh D website. >> Okay, good. >> And I was hopeful so hopefully something will come up but unfortunately nothing has come up yet for that.
>> Okay. It will be something that we'll have to basically do an RFP >> and see where their numbers come in. >> And it's something that you need also to get the public engaged >> because they also need to be in agreement and have an understanding of
why is it needed >> because it's going to be a fee that eventually is going to the cost is going to be passed down to them. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. There was a question about safe streets to school uh schools um grant with the
signage. >> The signage is included in the whether it was included. >> Remember if it's included the >> Yeah, >> the signage is actually included in the grant for the particular project that we're doing which has to do with the uh Gregory Avenue
um area. Mhm. >> Um, whatever signage budget that is in the budget will be for, you know, townwide, not specifically for this project. >> Okay, great. Thank you.
>> Thank you. I do see the chief here and there was a question about the fire engine. The >> fire engines >> be here when we >> when we get to >> you want to talk about when we get to it. Are you going to be staying or >> Yes. Well, you we'll talk about it then
when Yeah. when we get to it. >> Well, we know you're back. >> We just didn't know if you were staying. So, I thought I'd >> Okay. All right. So, then >> so then I'll let my um my colleagues there was another question for somebody
in the administration that was do do we go to this now? >> Well, I think if it's appropriate. So um there was a there was a question about the executive session um minutes. There have not been minutes up since I think
2002, 2003, 2004, 2005. Why are the executive session minutes from these back years not not being posted? >> There's really no reason. Um I've never
posted them to be honest with you. Um, and I'm I'm sure that I have a binder in my office that I was actually going to speak to Mr. Samero tonight about to see what has been resolved and what hasn't
and what can be posted and what can't. So, um, you know, there's there's really no reason. It's just it's never been done. Are there some things that you think you could decide without legal decided
because I don't know oftentimes I don't know if things have been resolved? >> I I I I think that legal should be involved in that council woman. Um I I did respond to Miss Bennett and I think you may have even been on that that that
email. Uh she raised a good point. I I had indicated we're going to have the assistant attorney has already done uh some work on this. He's going to look into it and we're going to come to uh some solution uh with uh with the clerk
and and uh do what's necessary. Uh I don't have the conclusions yet. So, I I I just want to The only thing I really could say is uh I I I certainly took to heart what was raised and uh were diligently looking at it. I actually
think I got a partial internal memo from him today, but I didn't get a chance to actually look at it substantively. Uh but uh he will be talking to uh the clerk and I will be involved. Uh and that'll take place this week. >> Great. Thank you so much.
>> Okay. So, why don't we start with public comment? Yeah, >> just to I think we covered most things, but um Mr. Goldsman, just to just to go over a few things and I apologize. I know we missed one thing because you talk faster than these two finger could type. >> So,
so um regarding the emergency robo dial in English and Spanish, we did look into that. The issue, the problem we have is one, we don't have the technology to have it um to translate it into that because we don't know where an English or Spanish household would be that we
can defer it to. Our our website is has been upgraded. We do have the ability on the website to have things that we post, meaning the township can be translated into a host of different languages through Google. Um so we we put our messaging up on there. We do post um a
lot of our not only with with um the robocalls but we we're quite extensively using social media now and in fact one of the recent storms I know that we we had at least 47,000 if not more hits on
on the social media and when you have a residency of just about 50,000 you we're pretty much that means multiple people not everybody's reading them but multiple people are either reading them for on multiple occasions. So, we're making every effort to make sure that we
notify the public whenever we can. Um, regarding the Governor Murphy signing the uh the firefighters bill, I know we spoke about it last night. I could speak to the chief about it. I think that's near and dear to our hearts uh for both the chief and I um and for everybody else who who like that. Um, as far as
switching from incandescent to LED lights, we pretty much have done that for a long time here in Western Orange because that was part of the grants and part of our energy saving or part of our green uh initiatives. So, and that's been for a while. So, we have done that and interference of AI and elections or
just AI in itself or were recently we joined the Central Jersey GIF and part of of what we're doing right now is is um upgrading. We we are very wellreceived from the new GIF and with the the recent GIF of our securities
with our our computer and software and one of the things we're looking at right now is an AI policy. We've forwarded to our our attorney and our IT people are looking at it so we can have an I an AI policy for not only in general but for our employees and so on and so forth. So
we we are looking at that right now. So, I know there was something between emergency robo dial and public comment and I don't know what it is and I know I have an answer for you. I just can't remember what it was. >> The and the >> Oh, the parking permits the valley. Oh, that I'm sorry. So, and that's
important. That is important because I do want to announce that at our May 12th meeting during the conference agenda, dynamic traffic studies, our police department and director Carbalo will be presenting. I I have spoken to about this at many of the meetings. We have
been working very hard. I promised the public that we would we would address the parking in the valley because it is a concern. So, we will be making a presentation to the council and we're dedicating that half hour to that whole um um presentation. It will be it will
be a presentation, but it would also be a question and answer for the council to us. So, we have we have a plan. We don't know if it's a solution, but it is a plan that we're going to present. It is being endorsed by our engineer. It is being endorsed by our police department and our our traffic study team. The
dynamic has fully uh been behind working and helping us out. So um we're we're talking about data collection, we're talking about uh implement implementation and it will be about a test period that will be for consideration and that includes also resolutions um potential excuse me
potential resolutions for the future for the council's consideration. So um so I want to make sure that the public does know that we will have this meeting and we promised it and we said we would deliver it and we're going to do that. So, please get here at 6:30 with your popcorn and you can sit in the front row if you like and we can discuss. Okay.
And that will be the only thing on the agenda because it's important to us or the conference agenda. >> Thank you, Council President. >> Council President, I just I just wanted to follow up on the LED question >> to Mr. Smearaldo. >> I know that we reimburse the communities
based on our our customary costs for electricity. Um, but is there any I think one of I think what he was also asking is was there an assessment because I did ask a while back when when this came up
whether or not there's actually been any verification in terms of the number of of lamp posts that we are reimbursing each community for. >> I'm not aware of an assessment of each community, but I um I I I don't know about that. I can't we can ask that
question and I'll ask our staff but I'm not aware of anything right now. Our our our assessment my understanding was led was u based on if I misunderstood Mr. Goldsman is that was it based on our our buildings and our operations. So that was that was the way I interpret that
question. So if it's about the the community as a large I don't have that answer for you tonight. >> Okay. So Councilwoman Ruden would you like to start us off with your >> Sure. Mr. >> Pap. Um, thank you everybody who came out. Um, for those who spoke on the
creating safe zones for um, our municipality, I'm 100% supportive of this and I think that it is it is something that we need because of what um, Katie mentioned, the very real
consequences of fear. You look for data on what's happening and you can't always see it. But we know from the groups that are assisting people people in their homes that there are many many many families and individuals who are living in fear and
not venturing out of their place and afraid to go to our public shared spaces. So I think it's very important. I don't know why um as as Jackie said that we are always the outlier. Why can't we ever be the town of innovation?
Why can't we ever lead the rest of the communities? Just leave us in the dust with their willingness to to go forward and represent their own diverse communities. Um, and I urge my council
colleagues to carefully look at this. This is not a feel-good resolution. This is a real dogood resolution for our township. It it clarifies to our police and to our residents where they can
enter safely and what the rules are and also in terms of data sharing and also we don't know right now from the police because we don't have any means of of reporting this to us as a council or to you as a community when ICE is in town.
And believe me, they have been here. They are here and the community is afraid. I think that that this is something that the town town council should seriously look at. Um I don't think it requires an extensive amount of research because so many other
municipalities have done this and it really just involves talking to some of our neighbors who've led in this way for the sake of our diverse community. Um, for those who spoke out about confusion
on the budget process, I myself was confused when I showed up yesterday and I said to the council president, why is this a meeting? Because I'm used to this being a a an opportunity for this to be
a budget workshop. And it was not clear when the public could weigh in, when they couldn't, when CBA was weighing in, when they could, when they couldn't. It was it was very confusing. And I um I hope that that this can be ironed out. I
don't know why it was a meeting and not a hearing. Um I'd like to understand that better. Um maybe somebody who's sitting here can can answer that. Um >> would anybody like to answer that question? and we could let Mr. Sim.
>> So when we first put it together, we put it down as a meeting. I spoke to the clerk um me it's carnival. Um some of the some of the thoughts behind it was that we were looking for transparency. It appears that this was not what was intended for what we were looking for last night. So we can make that
adjustment for the next meeting and make it a hearing and we'll just schedule it as such. So, I apologize if there was any confusion that way and if it was it wasn't unintentional to um misguide the public. Um it is correct that we have not uh done a public hearing ever
before. That was the first but when we're looking at transparency, we thought that was the way you wanted it. Um and so that was a mistake if if it was considered a mistake and u it was not done with any malice or intention to deceive the public. It's about um inclusion inclusion. But we can
certainly change it back and make sure it's posted as a hearing and that so that won't happen again as to as as regards to the processes. That's that's the council. That is not the administration. We cannot we cannot uh interfere with that. We just it was just the way we advertise it. And so I will I
will take that uh hit and I will apologize on behalf of anybody who thought we were doing anything other than trying to be as transparent as we can. >> Can I just say one thing? I have gotten a couple comments from residents saying, "Why aren't we allowed to weigh in?" So,
I was not that upset that it was at a meeting because then there could be public comment first. And moving forward, I didn't know whether I should tell people out in the public that if you want to comment about what happened in the in the last, you know, first um
workshop, you can come to the second one and you can, you know, give a summary of your thoughts. So I'm not so sure what the best way is to do it and I just need clarification so I can tell. >> I think council president we should just talk about that offline so we can make a decision and we could even pull the
>> pull the council so that everybody's on the same >> so this way we we'll do for next for next week on that. >> I know in the past it's always been like a workshop situation where public has not been able to comment. I think until the very end if I remember the years I was sitting out there and the very end I
think >> the hearing. Yeah, for so we we'll talk offline. I we can follow and we will have we'll have whatever is the wish of the council ready for next week on the 12th. >> I just want the fifth follow up that I did publish the agenda for the next
meeting but I'm going to have to revise it. So there at if it is a workshop there will will not be any public comment. >> Okay. >> Just as a point of clarification regardless of how it's titled the link will stay the same and I can make whatever adjustment there is.
So the link doesn't we don't have to we don't have to cancel a link and make a new link. We can just keep the link as the same and and just correct uh whatever verbiage we need to. >> Thank you. It's always good. >> Council President, if I may be heard u we can't util the the word hearing and
and I'm not that's a term of art, >> right? >> Uh and under the local uh budget law, there's one hearing and that one hearing is subject to very specific notice requirements. Okay. So, you can't have multiple hearings, right?
So, if you do intend to do something transparently uh transparently, >> uh it's going to have to be considered a a council meeting and a and a and a workshop meeting. And >> as everyone clearly knows, when you have it in the form of a council meeting, there needs to be a public comment
period. Um, so if you do intend to have any sort of public display relating to the budget, >> more than once, >> the first one can't be a hearing. The last one will have to be the hearing. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Other municipalities do this. Do they
engage the public? Do they >> I've never I've never had a municipality >> uh >> transparently >> sponsor >> uh go through >> this process. It's it's always been a two meeting
>> uh absent an amendment. It's always been a two-meating process, >> you know, introduction and adoption. >> And and and I understand uh the confusion. I think that that could potentially be just felt just by an explanation up front. uh that you know there isn't going to be
a vote on the budget tonight >> meetings. >> Um it's just so the public could observe us >> discuss the issues. >> Um and that should dispel I think with with any confusion. Um >> that's all I have to say. >> Thank you very much. Have a question. So
if we advertise it as a workshop that's not considered a public meeting or >> No, no, no. It's still a public meeting. If if there's a quorum of this body discussing any business, that's a meeting. So that does require public comment. >> It requires public and requires public.
>> Okay. >> Well, that might >> So then why do we have to change the notice? >> We don't. >> We don't. We just have it as a meeting. >> I thought it was going to be a workshop and then no public comment. But >> but a workshop still requires public comment. Correct. >> No, we never have. >> No. Um, can I
>> if if if there's a meeting of a quorum of this body where you're discussing business, that's a meeting under the open public meetings act that requires >> public >> open public meetings act compliance, notice >> and comment. So it doesn't matter if it's a workshop because we're getting
caught up on you know technical terms and I just want to make sure the public is understanding that whether it is a meeting whether it is a workshop it cannot be called a public hearing which is not what was done >> right >> it was called a meeting so therefore the
body as well as the administration governed themselves accordingly >> right but yes they did but in the past we have done the workshops with no public comment. So that was not done for anybody. >> Thank you. >> So for the public, you have a wonderful
opportunity to watch the budget hearing, not hearings, the bug budget workshops and uh comment at the next one. Summarize your thoughts. >> Thank you. Okay. >> So I retract my apologies for doing it correctly. >> Thank you. Thank you. I I I
>> There we go. Let's be forgiving. >> Got to take our our leadership from the council. >> Can I reclaim my time? Sure. Thank you. So, the public weighs in on the budget during the second reading. That's when the public weighs in on on this.
>> Um, as far as as the pilots, the pilots are often sold to us as a great deal for the town, but they are mirrored in in a lack of transparency. And I think we saw that very clearly when we found out last night that we are short $52 million that
we were expecting in our revenue stream. Um so that's a real problem and I think that that should give all of us pause if any pilot is offered to this township ever again.
Um I have not been a fan of this. I think that we end up losing a lot of revenue and we do a great favors for the developers at our own expense. I want to thank Rachel Klein for coming in and talking about Woodland Avenue. Um, I
know that has been a real safety issue um, in the community and I know that right now there there are meetings going on to kind of absorb some of the backlash from some of the members of the of the of the Redwood community who are a bit upset by the fact that they can no
longer park on Woodland Avenue and Redwood and right around there and just drop off their off their their children instead of going in the kiss and go lane. The kiss and go lane was created specifically because it prioritized safety. And I think that we as a
community always have to bear in mind that sometimes you have to make changes. Change is hard and we all will adapt to it. But a child died in this area because of cars parked on the street and blocking sightelines. while children who
are not adults and do not make the same type of decisions that we make may dart out again between parked cars. So, it's going to be a little bit of an adjustment. Um, but I think that for the safety of all, we have to we have to
keep that in mind. It may be inconvenience for some, but our our role is to protect the children and the safety of all of our residents. Um thank you for those who came out and spoke about decorum at this public meeting. I
have personally you know been somewhat assaulted here um several times verbally and um feel that the decorum is not what it should be. It we do not allow bullying in our schools and there should
not be bullying going on in this government on this platform. So, thank you to those who came without my knowledge and and said said um nice words and reminded us of what what we
are doing when we speak publicly to each other. Um Justin, so many great ideas. I think most of them have been addressed except for the the one issue that that about the PHAS's
in in the firefighting um uniforms. And for that, I would like to request if I may to ask Chief Veio to just address whether or not you're aware of the new law and whether or not the new uniforms that are purchased are without the
PHAS's. P F A S >> P H A S >> P F A S >> P F A >> let's call them florines. Florine free. Everything I'm going to refer to as florine free. Okay. >> I'm unbelievably aware of it because it's something that's in the fire service. It's been for 15 20 years. Um
the issue that's been raised and legislation um started probably 10 years ago about uh PAS free foam. We use firefighting foam. We have a major highway here. We use foam on the highway to put out gasoline and diesel fires.
Um, can't do it without it. It's going to roll down. You're gonna see a fireball rolling down 280. It smothers the fire. That's how we we put out the fires on 280. Not on wood. I don't want to say it. Tanker fires need a lot more than we carry. So, we have to call in basically
tankers full of foam to put out tanker fires. And there's a reason why I'm getting I'm talking about foam before gear. Um, so years ago, because environmental issues are a big thing, everyone wants to, well, no disrespect to politicians, but politicians want to
force things before there's stuff to feed that. They're they're unfunded. They're here, you just have to do this. So, the foam issue, which started probably 15 years ago, there were no manufacturers that could make a product that would do what this firefighting
foam did. I mean, no manufacturers. So, they created a solvent. We call it green foam. It's there's a chemical composition to it. It doesn't work. It's sold, but it really doesn't work. It doesn't create the blanket. We call it a foam blanket. You airate the foam and it
kind of creates bubbles, if you will. And that's what um the the main chemical in this, which is the cancercausing chemical, I guess. It it it does what it does because it it doesn't dissolve in anything. So it's um
that's what makes that's what makes it it's like asbestous asbestous with the heat and then they found out what it did but we all grew up hanging on asbestous pipes. Not saying it was good but it took 40 years for our schools to get rid of the asbestous because they had nothing to replace it with. So and they didn't know how to encapsulate it etc.
So getting back to the foam. So over the past several years, I've presented to this council every single year um firefighting foam requests to buy new foam to buy this green foam. It's always been turned down. It was taken out of the budget. Last year it was in my
budget. Guys took it out. Okay. I had to borrow and you I sent you all an email which you probably haven't gotten yet because I sent it later in the day about what we discussed last night. Some of the things that you had asked me about. Uh, one of the things was we had to go into one of those trust accounts that I
told you about and I spent almost $7,000 because for the first time in all these years, the state hired a vendor that was willing to take this old stuff. Nobody wanted it. That was the other thing. Nobody wanted the old foam because there was no, it was very expensive. It cost more to get rid of it than to buy new
foam. Um, so the state contracted it was free. Didn't cost anything, but you had a little window. So we jumped on the window. We did an inventory of what we had. We had about 25 or 35 gallon pales. That's how we do it. It's in concentrate and we drove it up to um somewhere
Warren County or something where they had a a a pickup site um and we got rid of it and I ordered new foam. So, and I said uh to Justin last night as we were leaving, you're happy you should be happy to hear that your fire engines all carry florine free foam. So, that's
that's a good thing. The issue with turnout gear, that's a relatively new one. Even though the politicians are jumping on it because someone said there is no new gear that can match anywhere what we need it to match doesn't exist. There are companies that make it but it
doesn't meet the same standard. Everyone will say no no we are we are it's what I do for a living. There really aren't. There's a couple of companies they're doing. It's slowly coming in. It it doesn't match what we have in. So here therein is therein is our dilemma. Um, so keep in mind also that replacing our
gear all at once, even if we went to this other is several hundred,000 off the bat to replace all the gear. Um, the So that's kind of where we stand with with it. Um, as far as regular, it can be addressed in station wear. We
talk about station wear that they can change that around and that's not a problem. It's the turnout gear that we wear because it has certain um uh properties that protect it from water, from heat, um which is what obviously we need and the the new stuff that they're
trying to bring out does doesn't do it as well. So, um so that's where we are. And again, because legislation is put there was legislation about the other PAS stuff years ago, too. it even when it comes out and you all know this, it doesn't necessarily mean there's
follow-up guidance for years to come. And and so I'm I'm thinking that that's where we're going to go with the with the turnout gear. Um, as you guys know, this will be the next guy's problem, but um I I think it may be the next guy's problem. So, um I hope that clears it
up. >> Very thank you. And uh when we're ready to go, I'm sure we we'll we'll present it, but as of now, we're still kind of in a holding pattern for the ball. All right. >> I understand the issue now. >> So much to learn if we did forward that information out for you. That information was sent to the
>> Just one one final thing. Um Jackie had brought up the most pertinent issue, which is that we really have no cost analysis and no planning going on. And I would just like to say that before we get to the next meeting when we have to
really make some hard decisions about leaf collection, about snow and other and garbage and sewers that some of this analysis is done and brought to us and some planning be done so that we can
figure out where we're going. And I I really hope that we can see that. I'd like to ask the administration at least since we're still dealing with the DPW to have a cost analysis on the LEAF because we were told that it would save our municipality a half a million dollars. I could tell you from listening
to the budget last night that there's a heck of a lot of money that we pay in overtime for our crews to work on Saturday to pick up leaves that we could save. We can also save in terms of reimbursement to the community. So, I really would like to see that analysis.
Thank you. Thank you, Council President. >> To see that, too. I think it's important to look at. It's a very large expenditure. Um, Councilman Kovak, would you like to go next? >> Yes. Thank you, Council President. I want to say thanks to everyone who spoke and gave us input tonight so articulately and focused on many of our
township's challenges. There's too much for me to respond to well tonight. So, I'm just going to touch on a few points and excuse me if I don't address your comment. I'm happy to uh talk to you or email you after the council meeting. There were many instances of
disappointing info and data in last night's budget hearing. Many of the numbers are projections and estimates at this point, so we got a lot more to-dos to analyze and make our decisions. So, we'll see. Council began reducing the
budget last night. Uh, and tough news means that we're going to have to work even harder to prioritize and make hard decisions about whether to spend or reduce property taxes, the proposed property taxes. A lot of talk about pilots. I've been
talking about pilots for more than 15 years. I worked on a committee, first time I was on the council for 10 years, I worked uh I was on a committee, two-year committee to develop the pilot for Edison Loss and then I voted against it.
That pilot was a piece of garbage from the word go. And I spoke about it at multiple meetings detailing all of the deficiencies and there were dozens dozens of them and what they what was proposed was not in the best interest of
of residents. I also argued uh multiple times uh before previous councils giving the reasons not to do the Stonehill pilot, but we still went ahead and did it. And I'm glad we have a more independent council now so that we can vet these harder and make sure that
we're doing things that are going to be in the best interest of of residents. So, please, everyone, we we keep talking about all of this stuff that that we're doing.
Everyone, please consider devoting more of your time to pay regular attention to what your municipal government is doing in your name with your money. The more you know and learn, and we're hearing people who are learning tonight, the better you're going to be able to
provide us input that we can use and guide us. Quote, lower my taxes end quote or quote, "We must have this end quote," aren't as helpful as informed input on challenges and solutions that we're facing. We are not going to cost
our way out of pro uh into prosperity. We need to generate revenue and through prudent financial management increase the value of our tax base so people want to move here, live here, spend here and drive the demand for our uh to live here
higher and that's going to result in a higher tax base and reduce taxes. There was a lot of talk about the meeting last night. You guys may recall I drafted a memo to go in a very different direction from last year's budget hearings. We didn't approve the
budget last year until November, and that's just a disgrace. At that at the March 10th meeting, the council approved unanimously that memo which included the phrase
strict time limits and a number of principles about how to move forward to make this a much more efficient and much less time costly uh process. I don't recognize anything that we did last night that was in that memo that was everybody's approved. And it appears
that at least a majority of the people, you know, didn't agree with something that they said they approved. And I hope that changes because last night's meeting was was a lot of time for a a
lot uh for a very little gain. And this just goes to everything we've I've talked about so far goes to the whole issue of this council is trying to clean up decades of
wrong way. Much of the council's work and much of the administration's senior people is cleaning up and trying to change past long-term practices to better follow our statutes, our regulations, and our own ordinances.
So when you see us and you think, "Oh, why aren't we doing something forward more forward-looking?" Because we're trying to clean up all of the mistakes that we've been doing for for for decades. I talked about executive session minutes back when I was on the council the first time.
Within a few weeks of Mr. Samero joining us, I told him about it. Mr. Samero thought he knew what he was getting into. I thought I had made it clear to him what he was getting into and then he the first day he was hit by a Mac truck.
So So in his defense, in his defense, >> in his defense, he knew about it. He simply It's almost an uh humanly impossible thing to do to fix the I I'm telling you 30 or 40 major
challenges that this township faces. And we've just got to try to prioritize the most important stuff. That's why we went after the debt management plan last year. That's why we got a new town attorney last year. Those are big, huge improvements in the future of our
township. But a lot of these other things we just can get to when we have uh enough bodies to do it. And I appreciate everybody uh doesn't want to be patient about it uh because that's the way to get stuff done faster rather than than than later. But you you just
got to keep that in mind. This sewer fee charge, when Mr. Natiniac says this is part of the general fund, what he's telling you is it's not used for sewers. And and I'm not contradicting anything he says
cuz everything he said is factually correct. >> But and if anybody doesn't know what joint meeting is, it's the big uh 13 municipality uh entity that cleans our sewer. That's
what joint meeting is. our previous CFO and again that's a huge improvement that he's no longer here. He came in and created the sewer fee and this was back early when I came on to the council. He justified it and argued that he had
fig this is literally what happened. He said he had figured out how much it would cost over 50 years to replace our entire sewer system and then he figured out how much he was going to charge us on that amortization schedule. Now, he
didn't take the money and spend it to improve our sewers because if he had, we'd be 10, 15 years ahead of this. No, he took it and put it in the general fund. It was a it was a tax by another name and it was always called the sewer fee from day one.
And I again I talked about it repeatedly. It was just a it was a Ponzi scheme. All you had to do was look at the budget and see how much money we spent on sewer. And it was like, you know, onetenth of 1% of the money we raised on our sewer fee would go to
fixing the sewers. Just get back to the problems that we are trying to fix after so many years. And that's that's a major one. And on the pro I'll just touch slightly
on the proposed ICE uh legislation. Um let me just look at my notes here. What the the proposed legislation does is it seeks to build on Governor Cheryl's executive order 12. And after the last council meeting, I
met with a couple of supporters to review the proposal. and made some suggestions about how to perhaps strengthen it and and I appreciate them spending time to talk with me. Subsequent to that meeting, my research showed that the federal government has sued the state and the
governor to throw out that executive order and they argue that it's unconstitutional violation of the supremacy clause which basically says states cannot obstruct the lawful activities of the federal government. Now, I I don't pay I pay as little
attention to federal stuff as I can cuz I'm it's as busy as I can be just to keep up with municipal, but I know that's a that's a huge huge fight. And I while I empathize with the goals of this, I I'm not going to support it
while it's it's uh the supremacy clause is being uh being u debated uh in the courts. So anyway, thank you very much for letting me go on. >> Thank you, Council President. >> Thank you for your all your commentary.
Well thought out. >> Thank you, Council President. Thank you everyone for coming out this evening. Um for those who had comments, many of those comments have already been addressed by the administration who are is best facilitated to respond to some
of the questions. Um, as far as the budget hearing, I think that falls squarely on the um, council and how we proceed um, with making sure we are efficient um, as well as uh, considerate of the directors and them coming out um,
to go over their needs. Um I have always uh tended to respect um the opinions and decisions of our directors because um one of the things that I thought was extremely beneficial when I first became an elected official was to actually go
out and see how our government functions. So certainly as council president, as our uh chief of fire indicated last night during the hearing, we went to every firehouse to look at the condition of the firehouses. Um I
went to every department in the town so that I could understand how the departments function and I think it is imperative for all of us as elected officials as we sit behind this deis and deliberate how everybody who you know
our employees who do this on a day-to-day basis all of us each of us have different um areas of expertise because that's our profession right I'm not going to DPW and telling telling DPW how to pick up leaves. I'm not going to
the engineer and telling her um how she needs to repave a street because that's her level of expertise. And I think what is important um is as your governing elected body um that we respect the people that we employ. I'm not
suggesting that we should not be looking at ways where we can save our residents uh money. We're residents. each and every one of us are homeowners. Um so respecting the process is not something um that I'm suggesting we shouldn't do.
Not even looking at areas where we can uh reduce costs is absolutely what our role and our charge is. Um but I just implore the public as well as my colleagues um to respect the people who do this dayto-day. We're not saying that they know and have all the answers. Um
but certainly um as as as my job sitting here um representing the people, there is a level of trust um that must be given uh to the people who work for the township. And so I just ask that we um when we're looking at how we can do
better um we take that into consideration. Um we're impacting people's livelihoods. And I and I just want to speak to that when we talk about um taking people's um retirement benefits on the agenda, off the agenda,
whether or not we're going to be sued. Again, these are people who have worked in our township for years. They deserve what they're owed. And I don't think it is not necessarily um for us to come in with an accusatory
disposition saying whatever was done 20 years ago um was done inappropriately. The laws change every often every so often. Um and we do things differently. Um but we also have collective bargaining agreements and agencies that
we we have to um respect um how those contracts are negotiated. Um so again I think it's imperative on the administration on us as elected officials for us to be explanatory to the public and how government works. I
think there is a misconception that things that go on in corporate America are transferable to government. Um, in government we have civil servants. Civil servants have protected laws. The unions have protected negotiation statuses. And
maybe we haven't as an administration. Maybe we haven't as prior elected bodies um done as much as could have been done to make sure that the public understands those rules and regulations. Um, but I'm going to go back to um the equipment
that we just talked about. the chief. Um we're we're sitting here spending time talking about equipment that he's already aware of and and we make the suggestion that the fire chief of township of West Orange, the fifth
largest municipality in West Orange, doesn't know what PFAS gear is. I mean, that's ludicrous. Why would he not? He's the chief of our fire department. So for him not to be aware of trends, not to be
aware of things that are on the hot topic, that is part of his role and responsibility. And we have to start trusting that whether it's this chief of police or the next chief of police, that they should be respected. Their opinion
and their authority should be respected and every little decision that they make isn't grounds for challenging. So, I want to say that as we continue to debate um during this budget season and process, again, we took time trying to
figure out if it should be called a hearing or a workshop. I I let the administration do its job. Let us do our job. There is a separation of powers. And you know, again, maybe we're not
clear as the elected officials. We have classes every year that we can go to. There's the League of Municipalities that we can go to independently to learn how government functions. I learn every day that I thought something should have
been done this way. This is a lifarning experience. We take counsel and directives from the people that the administration pays. And granted, we're a very talented community.
We need more volunteers that that are willing to come and say, "West Orange, we want to help fix it." And those opportunities are available. But it has to come from a spirit of how can we do better when we know better. This
accusation, accusatory spirit, we know that it it's almost saying that you blame your parents for what they didn't do when you were growing up. At some point you do the analysis, you understand where the shortcomings are
and then when you know better, you do better. So this look back from 10 and 15 and 20 years to figure out how we got here. It's absolutely imperative and important because when you don't look at history, you do repeat the same
mistakes. However, most of us up here, we want us to do better as a community. We're invested in this community. We're born, raised here, raised our children here. All of us want the best that we can offer for our community. Let's make
no mistake about any of that. None of us are sitting here doing this for $12,000. It's not worth it. We do what we do behind this deis because we love our community. We're invested in this community and we want it to be the best
community for our children's children. I don't think anyone who is interested in government is doing it because they think it's a cash cow or payout. It's because we love our community and we want to serve it better. So, I just want
to say those things. I think as far as what has been addressed as far as public comment, um that those things have been addressed. So, there's no need for me to reiterate that. But I do want us to come from a space of um West Orange wants to
do better. West Orange must do better financially because affordability is a serious concern. Not just for some people who may live down the hill, but it's a concern for everybody who lives here. Everybody wants the best that they
can have for their families, for their children. And I just hope that we can all get on one accord and understand that that should be the premise of everything that we do and most of the decisions that we make. Certainly we have special interests. Certainly we
have things that are important and more important and prioritized based on who we are. Um but at the end of the day we all have the same endgame. We want to see West Orange be the best West Orange that it can be. Thank you, Council President. >> You're welcome. Okay, Councilwoman
Gasolina, >> thank you. Thank you everyone for coming down this evening. Um, a lot of comments and a lot of passion and a lot of information thrown around that I'm not going to comment on everything.
A lot was said already, but just a couple uh just a little bit of clarification. So just for attorney's sake, we have been operating under this uh mindset that um we could have a budget workshop where the where where the public couldn't speak. So in pending
matters, I like to have a little more lengthy talk about how we move forward at the next budget hearing with public comment. What if or um you know, can they comment at the end of the evening? Can we have a little flexibility? It's done by the ordinance. So okay. So
we'll we'll we'll talk then only because a lot of this talk about the budget and the frustration with the council. We had 18 budget uh sessions uh last year and um where it was a where it was a healthy process in a lot of ways. It was very
timeconuming process and you know I I always get frustrated when I hear the word transparency because we are very transparent with our process. Um I even you know had recommended to my schoolboard colleagues that they uh because we used to at the school board
have the same process when we would bring the directors in and uh the principles in that matter and to go over the budget with them as a whole because I get a you know we get I get a good sense of other ideas um not only from
our directors and information but also from my colleagues and questions that they have. But we at this point in time it has to be expedited and we need a you know we need to move a little quicker this year. So I sense the frustration.
On another note, I I appreciate my my one colleagues uh you know uh due diligence to try to get us organized and you know we spend more talking about how we're going to do the the budget process than actually getting the work done and and and that has to we just have to move
along. I um we talk about uh what needs for the fire department last night. Uh there was comments tonight about um equipment and what's on the agenda this evening for purchasing uh a used uh
vehicle, which I have to be honest with you, I'm not happy that we have to purchase a used vehicle. When I first uh got on the council, uh we were fortunate. interest rates were very low and we were able to provide our fire department with two fire engines and I'm
very proud of that. Um at this point in time to have to provide them with a 20-year-old vehicle. I am not. But we have not had a capital budget since 2020. Um we had operated with five-year plans.
Um, and again, um, when the money is cut, and I get it, we have debt. So, there's other reasons why things aren't being done the way they are. And again, I'm not looking to blame anybody. I'm just trying to fill in the blanks for folks that haven't been always here the
past 10 years, um, that are newer to the council meetings now to get a better understanding of why things are the way they are. For example, uh years ago, I was on the school board when the Governor Christie came in and and cut a
lot of money out. That's why I feel so for um for the school district now because back then we were told in one week's time we had to cut $12 million because we lost funding that year and uh we had to let 35 staff members go and it
was horrible. Um, so yes, DPW was hit with that same circumstances many years ago and former mayors and councils had to, you know, uh, you know, when people retired, staff wasn't replaced and the workforce whittleled
down and consultants came in, third parties came in, uh, to help provide with the with the workforce. Airgo, our situation with our snow plowing now, our snow plowing costs are extremely high. We had conversations at last year's budget. I know there was frustration
last night on, you know, why don't we have this analysis? Well, I'm going to tell you why. We were supposed to hire a director of public works a couple months ago. We had someone all lined up who came in with great experience and had all new methods and procedures that wanted to share with our district. And
guess what? This council didn't want to give that person a contract for various reasons. Not saying right or wrong, but that's what happened. And because you know now Mr. Moralda who's working two other jobs so maybe he is a little cranky these days and he's not always
talked to so nicely um he he as well is handling that job and um so there's a lot of reasons why things aren't perfect right now and I think we all need to be patient but I know it's a big election year come November and so a lot of these
uh situations are going to come up and um and folks I'm going to be here and just to give you my what I think is right and and and I'm always going to do that um regards of elections or no elections. But we have a lot of work to
do. It's already 10 after 9 and I appreciate the public support, but we always are available by uh email and to answer uh questions. Um the folks that came out for the resolution, I'm going to apologize again to you. I am not going to be supportive of it mainly
because uh I am not supportive of the resolutions. I made a commitment for that. Um, but also mainly because I am in contact and I do care so much about our community. I've always reached out to our community members working with our deputy mayor, working with our
Hispanic foundation. They have not given me and neither has the superintendent given me any indication that there are uh major issues. Yes, I do understand there are people at home in fear. I was very glad to see St. Patrick's Day parade. a lot of folks in the
communities come out. Um I was worried about attendance there and it was packed and uh and I was glad because the smiles on the young children's faces is always priceless and that's what we're all about. Take pride in our diversity, but
at the end of the day, um I'm just not supportive and I I could talk more online uh with with anyone that wants to reach out to me in regards to that, but thank you. I do appreciate your advocacy wholeheartedly and I mean that one last uh detail I do want to share and the
positions that we are put in when we have to make these maj major decisions we are only as good as making decision as the information that we receive up until the night we vote and um when we go back and we you know play you know we go back and review these decisions and I
was early on the phone with Mr. to Tiniac this morning about the one uh pilot that we had approved for executive drive was really upset. Um you know at the time you know we we were told and we did have and a $4.1 million uh tax
appeal that we had to pay out uh to the owners to the developers of that property. And um and that was part of the sale, this the agreement, the negotiation that the $4.1 million um uh
would not be uh requested and we so that was a savings there and everyone always forgets the 1.2 which is now 1.5 in rental income that we have from the tenant at Tenrron Circle. So um you know
these these situations are not perfect. they get frustrating when we hear other uh items come uh to to be uh but I'm you know very happy with our CFO the work that he's doing a lot of the cleanup
that he has done for us and I do appreciate the public's you know uh support on uh on recognizing him and all his efforts. So thank you for that. I end on a happy note and Mr. Fagan, I just thank you for your report tonight
and any parents out there listening. I hope you do sign up for our junior police uh academy. Uh I try to get there every year for the graduation ceremony. Uh my children attended it and uh is just amazing the work that our police
department, our law enforcement uh uh does for our community. So, thank you very much everybody for coming down tonight. I am done. Council President. >> Okay, great. And I just want to say thank you for your institutional knowledge and your clarification of a lot of issues that go back for decades because I know you've been very helpful
to me in understanding, you know, history and that's why we study history, right? So that we can make sure we don't make the same mistakes. >> Exactly. The past. Thank you. >> Um and appreciate it. Um for everyone who came out on the immigrant trust, I
agree. I want to thank uh Councilman Koviaak for his research. Um I'm concerned also, as I mentioned in many of the meetings, about the time and money that we're spending on resolutions that do not directly impact our ability
to get things done. And I think we've made a commitment up here that we are going to focus on so much of the important business that we have and um kind of refrain as much as possible from any of these other types of resolutions.
Uh Jackie Hendy, thank you for bringing out um your concern about the pilots. Um at the meeting last night, I had asked Mr. Diniac where did a 40 a $54 million deficit come from? And when he told me
that the majority of it was from Stonehill, I almost fell off my chair because, you know, I campaigned on the problems with pilots. I totally agree with you as I do with Councilman Koviaak. Uh they have not been good for
our in many ways for our township. They have played a part in the rising taxes. I think it was Mr. Datiniac told me it was like 80%. Was it 80% Mr. defending act was it of was Stonehill. >> So that 54 billion
>> loss of the ratable um if there were if there wasn't any tax increase at all. So we didn't increase the amount to be raised you know a penny it was about like$25 $26 on the average home just a loss of the ratable. >> Mhm. >> Because you know you're you're taking
the amount to be raised dividing it by by the ratable divided by a th00and to get your tax rate. Well, if the ratable base goes down, your tax rate then goes up. So, just that $50 more million change
>> gives a $25 increase from the gap, >> right? >> Okay. Thank you for not the average home. >> You're always so wonderful about putting things into terms that people can understand >> um whether they have a finance background or not. So, thank you so
much. um in terms uh of um Brent Draper Scott um and his comments about um the discourse on the council. I have to say I have been very disappointed with the
discourse that we see on the council and I am going to seriously remind my colleagues to refrain from interrupting one another up here and from making disparaging com comments to one another.
You know, I've I'm I'm very concerned and I haven't wanted to call people out publicly, but it's time. It's time. this this kind of discourse has to stop. We have to act professionally up here. And uh Councilwoman Ruden, I'm sorry about
some of what's been thrown at you. We'll do better. >> Thank you. >> Um in terms of the public comment uh and the meeting versus the hearing, I think it was a very positive thing that we brought that up because I learned that
we're going to be able to have a vehicle where the public can actually comment on the budget, which hasn't happened before. We've always had it um as a workshop. The public was not able to comment until the very end. I've had people calling me that want to have a lot they want to say about the budget.
So I think it's going to be a good thing that we have a meeting and we will talk about when that public comment should be whether it should be at the beginning or the end. >> Yeah. So it is going to be in the beginning. Okay. So it's for everyone out there. It's going to be in the beginning so you could summarize and
comment on what you've heard from the prior meeting. And I think that's a wonderful thing. Um, Claire, uh, Sylvestri, um, I want to say that I think I've said a number of times up here, I am not in
favor of limiting my colleagues ability to ask all of their questions and uh, make their comments. Their constituents or the people who voted for them put them in this seat to do just that, to ask the questions. I will urge us all to
try to be brief as we can. Uh but there's a lot of information that really needs to be asked and that the public is interested in hearing. So um I'm not interested in all the different um
mechanisms that would impede our ability to ask questions or comment. Um I think that's about it. Oh. Oh, the Oh, in terms of the employees, I just want to say our employees work really hard. They have earned their
benefits. They should be respected, but we are the checks and balances. And we do have to be careful. And I think that I'm a business person before I was a speech pathologist. I owned and operated a business consulting firm in Manhattan
that served Wall Street banks and insurance companies. I don't agree. I think there are many business principles that can be applied to municipal government to help it function a little bit more efficiently. And I hope that some of us here who have that
background, I know as Councilman Koviaak does, I I hope we will continue to work to bring more efficiency or to encourage more efficiency in our government. And um
that's really I think all I'll say tonight, >> Council President. >> Yes. >> I just want to uh make one point of clarity. >> My my battery is dead, so I couldn't research it. I am 99% sure I'm correct on there not being a distinction
>> uh between workshop and a a conference, you know, a business meeting. So, I'm going to verify that to tomorrow when I get to my office, but I'm quite sure I'm right on the law. I just I'm not 100%. So, I just want to double check, >> right? We just want to call it the right thing. We've been out of Yeah,
>> I the the the point doesn't relate to the title. It relates to whether or not there's a public session that's required. And I think that if you have a public meeting, >> my understanding of the law without looking it up right now is that there also needs to be a public session.
>> Great. >> So, I'm just going to double check that. >> Council, >> just follow up. Uh, council, um, so when I was on the school board, we we had workshops, their work meetings where the public didn't comment. We were able to do our work session because it's really
a work session. So I I just going to tell you I and that was a different government body. So I I >> I'm going to double check it. That's why I said I just want to >> make sure and everyone's clear and not >> saying I'm 100% certain on the law and I
don't have the ability to check it right now. >> I thought that I it was included in this book. I looked it's not included in that book. >> Yeah. >> So I'll definitely give you a clear more clear answer tomorrow. Mhm. >> I'm really pretty sure my gut taught me to write on it.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Great. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> Okay. >> Review the consent agenda. Approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting April 14th, 2026. >> Consent. >> Report of township officers. None.
Reading of petitions and communications and bids. A rebid for the repair and maintenance of EMS apparatus for the West Orange Fire Department. Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Thank you. Bill list. Uh, are there any
questions or comments on bill list? >> That's it. >> Nothing. Is that >> Thank you. Resolutions. Are any resolutions being pulled this evening? >> No. >> Um, >> council president. >> Yes. >> If I may. >> I just want to confirm that the
resolution introducing the 2026 budget will be voted on separately. Right. Yep. >> Uh, council president, could we uh pull 12726? There is a small change I want to make to the resolution.
>> Sure. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Oh, yes, Council President. Um, we also need to vote on 12826. The resolution for temporary emergency appropriations separately requires a 2/3
vote. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Not much left. >> So, um, for you said we needed to change language in 12726. >> Correct. Correct.
>> That's being pulled. Yes. >> Yes. Or separate consideration. And then I did have um a question that I spoke to Mrs. Carvala about about 12526. Um so just would like to put that
officially on the record. Um just having a concern with the report going directly to um Prism and if we could just make sure we get a copy of that report directly from the vendor. I know we're not paying for it, but if that could be
something we could request because it is our property. I'm just to make sure that we know what is the condition. Um, >> actually I did have a question on >> um, >> council president I would like to pull
13226 >> and council >> I just had a question on 125-26 when that comes up If it comes up again, please >> we'll go back to it soon. >> I had a question and then um question on
13126 >> and that was removed. J >> um so my ask for um leaf collection. I know that we're doing some analysis before we come back with finals for DPW. Um but in the
opportunity to cast a wider net, is it possible for us to include Llewellyn Park in our leaf pickup instead of paying them for their vendor to pick it up? >> So that is a separate settlement agreement. So we'd have to ask our legal to look at it because that was that was an agreement that was reached in
settlement. We and I believe you were given a copy of the of the settlement. >> Um so I don't know if that can be done. We'd have to ask legal for their opinion on it. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Okay. And councilwoman just to clarify in
um 12526 page I think it's would be page one two three four five uh four and five number seven it does say that we will get a report. So I will we will follow up with director Carbalo and get here with a
word. >> Thank you. >> Okay Councilman Philby did you want to ask a question? >> Yes. Thank you. Just very quickly Miss Carbalo. So, I I really appreciate all of the time you devoted to try to answer the questions. And I I just want to try to clarify
uh when the citation for ISRA was was involved for the first time as far as you know, because I'm trying to figure out if Isra uh issue is something that has come up now or if it's been from sometime in the
past. Uh that mean you mean the act councilman? >> Yeah, not the act but the triggering event for this particular project >> because one of the triggering events is could be bankruptcy, it could be sale,
it could be end of a lease. I'm just trying to figure out if this is something that's happening now. We all should know about this. But if it's something that is just the latest of a long line going back to when Edison loss was first developed, you know, 101 15 years ago, that's what I'm trying to
find out. So please, so I know I sent an email kind of late on my way here. Um I don't know if it was something that has come up just now or it was something that in the past 15
years or so. So I wouldn't be able to answer that question. It will have to be basically we will have to ask the question to prism >> and maybe the environmental company which I wouldn't even know if it's the same company that they've been using because you know typically you do change
LSRPS over time. Is that something that you could take care of us for us or is that something I should try to pursue? Or >> maybe we could have our legal department hold directly.
>> That's what he does to me. He just keeps his head down and just keeps right on going. >> I I'm I was reading something at the top. >> I'm just making a joke. Try to fill the time. Uh, Miss Carbalo, well, she can speak for herself. >> They want to know as to whether or not
any of the triggering events for the Ezra Act um are now or from the past. I honestly don't know. And I think that's an answer that we can only get from the owner of the property. So, I was
thinking that maybe our legal department could contact them directly. Well, I can tell you just the the impact of or or the the applicability of Isra use of the property, >> right? >> So, um
given today's date, if we know that the property was ever or is currently being used as one of the uses that require uh ISRA compliance, then you have to do it. I I don't understand the scope of the or the
context of the question beyond that. >> Okay. So everything you said is correct. ISRA has a number of what they call triggering events. It's actually in the law and it cites these triggering events are what kick off ISRA.
That's what makes ISRA apply to a particular property. >> Right? >> So the triggering events are largely uh financial. they would be purchaser sale of the property, uh, bankruptcy, uh, lease transaction, that sort of
thing. I'm just trying to figure out if this is something that has happened now and I'm just putting into the context that the pilot isn't doing particularly great and Edison loss uh whether it's something that happened today or in this time current time period or whether it happened 15 years ago when we first
started working on Edison loss because if it happened today I think it's really important that we find out what the triggering event is. >> Yeah. >> I I I don't know enough about it to answer answer that question. uh at this point um this was a as you
know something that predated me and and I was simply asked to to come up with uh the terms of uh the access agreement. >> Yes. So Miss Carbala was just asking you if you would perhaps reach out to Prism
or the LSRP just to find out when when the triggering event was and what the triggering event is. Uh yeah, we we could certainly do that. Uh >> Councilwoman, I'll I'll look into it and figure out an answer.
>> Thank Thank you. Thank you to both of you. >> Don't go anywhere. >> Are you done? >> Yes. Councilwoman Castle. >> So I have a question on this. Um what happens if they're selling the property? >> Yeah. with that where are we protected
if they with if for sale they have a new owner you transfer >> we're we're talking about hypotheticals that we don't even know apply I mean I can't >> well that's what I'm saying should I should we uh pull this and let you do a little more due diligence on it or is it you know what is your thoughts do we
>> my understanding was that there was contamination on our property that they're deemed the responsible party and that they needed to do monitoring on our property in order to evaluate the contamination. Is
that is that not true? >> Yes. And to also to see the extent >> so I think that we're kind of and and I mean this respectfully, but I think we're kind of going down a rabbit hole. If they're already in under an obligation, uh that obligation probably
isn't stemming from ISRA. I would think that that obligation is stemming from an order of NJD. Is that not correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, NJD has now said you have to remediate and all we're doing here is
saying okay, we'll let you come onto our property for the purposes of you doing a remediation subject to these terms and conditions. I don't think that the factors that are being contemplated here actually come in to play or are are really relevant to it. Um I don't think
that they're doing anything with the property currently that's triggering this. This is a result of NJD already telling and establishing that there's contamination to the point that remediation must occur. >> You you agree with all that Z that make
sense? Well, to the point of remediation, I don't know, but definitely for them to delineate the extent of delineate the extent of the contamination of the shallow groundwater. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, so I don't know really what
difference the the ISRA issue is. Uh and in point of fact, if they have contamination that leeched onto our property, we would want to know about it. >> Well, it was their property before it was our property. Yes, >> it's our property now. >> And and and
>> uh it's it's it's our headed now. >> So, we certainly need to know and and and to address uh the the question, >> I want to table this. >> Uh I'm not sure who who raised the question about us getting the records or
the results. Was that okay? Uh it that's covered in this agreement. >> Yes. And and I know that councilwoman Ruten had a question regarding what decommissioning means and how we're going to ensure that that takes place. Well, decommissioning is something that
is regulated by the NJ regulations and the contract does indicate that they have to comply with NJ regulations. Contract also has another provision in it that all the work that be that's being done is being done in a good and
workmanlike fashion. and we also have insurance obligations. So, I think that we're adequately protected. I think that it's in our best interest to have this done. Uh we're going to get the information.
Uh and and in point of fact, this is all being done by an LSRP who has to report it to NJ as well. So >> that's that's what >> um it it really they came to us and they asked could we go on your property.
>> Yeah. >> Z brought it up to me and I said well Z I don't want them coming on our property without us having some protections in place. We even had some communication back and forth because I didn't know what the genesis was originally.
Um, and uh, I even asked Z, well, does it have to be an LSRP? Because if it's an LSRP, they have mandatory reporting requirements to NJTP where uh, an environmental scientist otherwise isn't obligated to do so. Uh, I even spoke to
uh, matrix uh, the environmental matrix who does work for us uh, to make sure. So, so I do think that this is a very reasonable agreement and uh that it should be uh voted on. I think the other issues are >> accommodated by it.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> 132 >> the question 13226. The question regarding uh downs tree service. Um just wanted to clarify some of the challenges we've had with Downs.
>> Um It was before council woman. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. We'll talk about it when we have discussion. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> yes. Can I just ask why was If this was already answered, then I apologize, but
why was 131 pulled? >> Um, 131 who pulled. It >> wasn't pulled. It was >> It was a It was a question. There was just a question. No, no, that was pulled. Yes, >> that was
>> that was pulled because we need to reexamine to make sure we have that correct in accordance to the agreements that we have with Len Park. So, um there was concern that it wasn't um um
produced the way it should be. So, we just want to make sure and we spoke to Lalen Park today and we're in agreement that we pulled it so that we can uh we can collectively look at it. >> That's 131. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Anything else to be pulled?
>> Okay. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. >> All in favor? Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented. Okay. Resolution 124-26, introduction of the 2026 municipal
budget. Is there a motion to introduce? >> Make a motion to introduce you. >> Any discussion? >> No. No. >> No. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> If I could, I I did want just a brief explanation of why we're doing this with
Mr. Datiniac. Maybe a mention of a couple of key data points in the as long as we've got him here and we got this resolution that >> um Sure. Uh Councilman, please if I could, Council President, I'll give a very brief uh
I just want to pull up my trusty budget here. So it was the budget process is is similar to uh an ordinance um in that there's there's two distinct parts to it. Um the first part is introducing the
budget. And once the budget is introduced, we're going to put it for advertisement out to the public, make it available for the public to um to view, which we we we've already essentially done with with the the detail budget.
And then there's going to be a period of time that well, we're going to hold workshops or hearings that we call them, but really the workshops and also the public can take time and digest it. uh at what at at at such point then we will
hopefully have an amendment based on all of our budget workshops. We'll amend the budget and and then once that's done, we're going to hold a public hearing, the true public hearing of the budget where people can come in and and talk about whatever they want to talk about
about the budget. And then at that point, we'll we'll look to adopt and we'll need twothirds of the governing body to to agree to adopt the budget. Um so this is the first step. Uh if we look at last year, we introduced at the end
of July. Um we're doing better. Uh >> we're going to do better. >> Um not where we should be definitely, but better than than last year. And just based on the the one budget workshop
that we've had, I have really great uh high hopes for um a much better budget process. But where does the the proposed budget stand? Um what we're looking at right now just uh
in terms of the average home, which I said last night, uh remains $615,472. That's the average home in West Orange. That went up considerably because of the revaluation that was done um over the last couple of years. So, the
revaluation brought our net valuation taxable up to $10 billion in 2025. And you know, we talked about the $54 million decrease in in in ratables for this year. So, we're currently sitting at 9 bill946
million. So, the increase on the average home that we've calculated based on the proposed um budget put together uh local tax is $279.54 on the average home for for local taxes.
And then the library that um Councilman Koviaak did a great job explaining the the library tax that's up $327. Um, so the municipal share we'll say is up $312 if I round up a penny. Uh, I did
talk about um some of our the other entities that are part of our tax bill, Board of Education and the county. The amounts that I I give to them uh for them are purely estimated. Um, the county I based a 2% levy increase. I
don't know what the exact equalized uh levy will be for us. Um, but if I just apply 2% to last year's levy, the county is up about $47. And then I based uh my increase on the school district on what was put out in
the press in the last couple of weeks um where they said it was going to be a uh 2.5% on on the levy. And that number works out to be $37.7. Um, so all in an ominous $666
tax increase when you factor in all the entities. That's currently what's what I'm estimating. >> Um, so again, we are going to work through budget workshops and this council has been um, excellent about
finding every penny that they can find. So, I'm assuming at the end of this that that local tax increase will >> decrease >> will be reduced, I'm sure. Um, so again, this is step one. A lot of
work to be done, but I'm happy that we're we're doing this in April. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Introduce Councilman Kakoviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. Council President's. The motion carries. >> Okay. Uh resolution 127-26, a resolution authorizing the purchase of a 2006 Crave Meanstick Quint Buyer apparatus from the
Township of Debtford in amount of $200,000. Um Mr. Seero, you wanted this pulled. Uh yeah, I wanted it pulled because I'd like to revise the final paragraph
uh to uh read I'll I'll indicate uh the the full paragraph. Be it further resolved, the township purchasing agent is hereby authorized to arrange for the foregoing
to pay for the foregoing substantially in accordance with the terms of the contract attached here too instead of purchase order on the behalf of the township of West Orange with
funds approved by the CFO. uh because there are uh a couple of corrections that I'd like to make in the contract. They're not material. Uh I think that
they clarify things better. Uh so they don't substantially alter the the intent or the the terms of the contractor, but of the contract rather. Uh but uh with respect to paragraph 4.3, I'm also adding that they're going to give us the
bill of sale and or title uh to the vehicle. Uh and then the bill of sale, which has been attached, it has to be referenced in the contract. It's not even referenced in the contract. Uh has to state the BIN number, which is common
sense. I I don't know how that got past us, but it didn't get past me, at least today. Uh so I would like to make those cl clarifications. So if we could change the last paragraph in the resolution uh it will allow me to make those
changes and and make those assurances. >> Okay so great. Thank you. >> Um thank you. >> Yes. >> So with that change I would ask that. >> Great. Thank you. Do you need us to make a motion for that change or be making the statement a ma'am? >> It's just
>> uh No. No. I think that that the motion should be with the changes. uh requested by me. >> Okay. So, are you making the motion or do we need >> I don't make the motion. >> Motion. So, I I >> very expensive motion. >> That make me a really powerful attorney.
>> Um we're going to follow your recommendation and amen the language. Um as Dulie noted, um do you need me to repeat that for the record? >> No. If you make reference to what I had placed on the record. >> I'll second that. >> Thank you. >> Um and now if we can have discussion. Sure.
>> Not on his recommendation, but I did have a question. Just wanted to ask, were we able to get any repair records? I didn't see that referenced in the contract. >> Yeah, I think the F was gone. >> The contract does reference the fact that they they would be providing and
there is a fair amount of backup that we were provided. >> Hi again. >> Hi. >> By the way, I just wanted to comment sitting standing in the back that closed caption for those of us who may have a little bit of like is awesome. Yeah, great. >> Kudos to whoever thought of that. But
anyway, um so everything should have been uploaded to the share drive. Um it's a lot of stuff. Uh most of their most recent uh work done on the truck was done by a company called Firefighter 1, which is also a vendor of ours. Um so
yeah, so that's that's all loaded up there. We have and and I I had released some questions that had asked that I thought should have covered a lot of things. Um, for example, I know it's 20-y old truck. Uh, I mean, I don't know how detailed you want me to get into why
we're doing this. If you do, I will, but do you want to I I mean, I feel if I need to sell this, I need to start from the beginning. >> Yeah. >> Can I >> Yeah, I'd like to hear >> I'd like to just ask ask some questions so that you can incorporate that Sure. >> in your response. Um
>> I know I know that um the town that we're purching purchasing for this did a referendum and they raised money. They the public agreed to raise the money to purchase a new Why are they selling this Quint? Are there any mechanical problems
in this Quint? >> Because they had a governing body that gave them the money to buy a new truck. >> I don't mean to say that, but that's the fact. So they're a fire district. They work differently than than other governing bodies as well. They they function differently. They're they're
run by a board of fire commissioners. >> Is there any mechanical condition in this truck that >> caused to want to sell it? >> Not to my knowledge. That's the best I can give you. But let me give you the background to to the the truck saga. So,
um a few years ago, I guess in 2003, um the council was gracious enough to award us uh $1.2 $2 million to buy what is known as a Quint, which is for all intents and purposes, it has five functions, but let's just say it's a pumper and it has an aerial on the top.
So, but it's called a Quint. Um, the reason I had requested a Quint, and I had requested it a couple of years prior to it finally being um um awarded uh was because uh our engine 3 needs to be replaced. That's up at St. Cloud. and
the thought process and this came from um various um factions but uh ISO and I referenced ISO before to you all as I think yesterday the insurance services institute which is who gives us our our
rating for our community's um fire protection I forget the classification they classify and it depends on what you're uh going to pay as your fire insurance um so the lower the rating the better we actually the last time they did an audit we we achieved a higher
rating one one higher be great if we can achieve one we asked at that time what are some of the things uh that we need to do uh a lot of things we can't change when the the the fact that our aerial ladder and this is the kinds of things that they use our aerial ladder is stationed at headquarters we don't have
one up by station 4 we don't have one up the hill that caused a couple of of um not what I don't what you want to call it but demerits in our rating because we didn't have one on the other side Uh, I said at the time, well, if we had one, does it have to be staffed? They said, not really, as long as it's it's at
another firehouse because they also have volunteers. So, they just wanted it at the other firehouse, meaning could the people that are at that staffed firehouse possibly take that vehicle so it would help our rating. That was one of the reasons why I asked for a Quint as opposed to an engine. The problem was once it was awarded, our committee got
together, we went to to uh various manufacturers, and the 1.2 2 that I asked was no longer a a price that we could find a truck for. They started at 1.4 started base nothing but ours is very custom. Uh because we have 280 we need a bigger motor. Um so it probably
would have been closer to 1.5 or 1.6. Question was at the time do we go back to the governing body and ask you for more money? Well since I've been here it's been money's always been tight. So I asked the question at the time, can we, and this was our committee, uh, can
we buy an engine and make that engine engine 3 and then look for a a good quality used quint that we can have as a reserve? We can probably keep it at either station three or station 4 to serve that purpose that I mentioned. And when our aerial, that's the reason we
wanted the quint for the most. When our aerial, we only have one ladder truck and that ladder truck goes out of service a lot. I don't have specifics for you, but last year was out of service for about six months. Okay. So, your town didn't have an aerial ladder for six months. That's that's on me, but
I we've been trying to find a truck. Um, so we thought we found one a year ago. Mr. Diniac and appreciated it. They put it out to auction. We got out bid. Um, it was a very similar to the one to this one. Um, what's happened because, and I
don't know if some of you follow, uh, there were congressional and Senate hearings on it, the new apparatus market is exploding. There's a four-year backlog on buying any new, um, fire apparatus. They're they're claiming collusion. There's only basically two companies that make uh, fire engines,
and we have one on order right now. We're in our third year. Like, it's it it it's there's a backlog. So, what happens, as with anything, supply and demand. So you can't get new trucks. The used market explodes. So there's very
few available and the ones that are in some cases are overpriced. And I'm not I'm So they listed this at 275 and they fully expected that that's what they would get because that's what the market shows for this type of apparatus and for the number of miles very low miles.
Excuse me. Are you getting emotional? >> I sometimes choke up too. So >> all that talk two nights in a row of all the talking >> to the rescue. Thank you. >> Mind if I drink it all?
>> Um so uh where was I? >> The market the market. So the market is has has been crazy. Um, the people that we have on our committee, uh, one is an automotive mechanic. He's phenomenal. Uh, and the
other one has been looking at fire engines. Chief Smaldo remembers Deputy Chief Busy. I mean, they they know this industry. They could they could buy and sell them for as a career. We're lucky to have them. They're on our committee with two other people. So, I'm very confident in when they review a truck.
Um, they both came down when we went to to see the truck in person down in Deford. No, no. CPR letters of the cover. >> I know that your goals.
>> Um, thank you though. >> So, um, so we went down to Deford. They were very good with us. They're a um um a very they run a very tight ship. This the the truck has been serviced beautifully. You asked about you obviously looked up the things that
we're supposed to again we we know what we're supposed to look for. Corrosion is a huge thing. We want to make sure that there's no rust on the frame rails. Those are the things that we look for. Was in really good shape. >> You also asked what's preventing the motor from exploding.
I we have newer trucks where the motors explode. I can't um Crave is a very good brand. Um so I can say that they're one of the few that are that are actually still in business. there's not that many that are in business anymore. Um so,
um that brings us to to where we are. We've we've not formally bid on truck, but we've we've looked at and lost probably six trucks. The type of truck we want, just so you know, a quint can be a um a tandem axle. So, we didn't want that. That's too big. We wanted the
reserve truck to be a smaller, which is a single axle 75 ft aerial ladder. Um and again, that all these things limit. We wanted it to we didn't want it to be an American lef France. There are certain brands we didn't want it to be. You get like one new truck on the
international market every week. It's it's it's really that crazy. You can look up. There's only a few companies if you want to do searches. You have to do searches and they have to be compatible searches because you're going to find the this exact year and probably not the
model but and it might say, "Oh, it's 100,000. Why aren't we buying that?" A it has 200,000 miles or B there's something wrong with it. So um so that's why uh we asked for all the service records with the most important records
that we received every year. NFPA requires uh all pumpers and aerials to have uh pump tests and ladder tests. They supply us with all their recent pump tests and aerial tests annually and they do what's called a non-destructive test on the aerial every five years
where they load it like you can't imagine and it has to withstand without a certain bend and that's what they do. It's different than other types of you know a dump truck doesn't require the same things that a fire truck does. Um so they have all those records for us. Again, I wish I
could say to you I had a magic ball and that you know 15 years from now this thing's not going to have a a repair to it. It's not going to happen. There's going to be repairs. All of our own fleet, our newest engine is out to twice a year for not for only maintenance, but for repairs. They're customuilt trucks.
So, what that means is it's not like you're buying a Camry. They they actually put the pieces of metal together the way we want them and the the where the things are. So, we didn't custom build this particular truck cuz it's from Debford, but it was a customuilt truck. So, what I'm saying is
there are still things that are going to, you know, go wrong, but right now it's in great shape. So, >> okay. >> What else you got? >> What were the hours that this that this truck has been used?
>> The engine hours. >> Yes. >> It's written some I I sent you a bunch of stuff. You can't expect me to remember anything about this truck. And you you you responded in terms of mileage, but I mean >> mileage is always mileage is always very very close to the the tight the if the
if the engine hours are low. I mean if the mileage is low, the engine hours are most likely going to be low. So it's >> my understanding is that there's a lot of idling. So the engine hours could be much higher. >> There could be. But they're also a combination fire they're a combination fire. Again, it's I know this, but
they're a combination fire department. They don't use this truck. It's 20 years old and it has 50,000 miles. If we had a 20- year old truck, it would have a million miles on it. So, not a million, but it would have a couple hundred thousand. So, they don't use it like we use it. They don't have the hills like
we have. The hills destroy our trucks. >> Same thing with buses. >> Yeah. >> Same thing with buses with >> So, um, as far as the hours, I can I don't have it here. I'd have to look it up, but it's You have your computer. It's It's on the share drive. So, you can see how many engine hours it's in one of the
>> Oh, it did have it. It should be on one of the the pump test much probably shows it. >> Um if you can pull up one of the pump tests. >> Oh, we have a lot to learn about. >> No, it's on the share share. >> But it's but it's 10 o'clock. >> Yes.
>> Wrap it up. >> Yeah. >> So, anybody else have other questions? >> No. No. I think we're good. You've covered it all. >> Um >> two. >> Okay. I'm gonna stand over there. So, if you have more questions, >> I'll make I'll make a motion to approve
>> the mandate. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Casteline. >> Yes. >> Did you backwash? >> Yes. And a big thank you to the chief. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yeah.
>> Yes. And I I also would like to to thank the chief. I asked a lot of questions and you spent a lot of time answering them and I you know I I hope for I hope for the best. >> All of us. >> We all do. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council Ruden. Next time I go to uh get a new car, I'm bringing you with you. You're hired. God bless you. >> Okay. >> Resolution 12826. resolution authorizing
emergency temporary appropriations pursuant to the provisions of chapter 96 PL1951. Um Mr. Dinier, did you want to speak to this? >> If I may. Um just just for clarification for the public, I know the council
understands this, but um the the the title of this resolution uh emergency temporary appropriations, I just want to clarify what it is. the the township must adopt a resolution in the beginning of the year setting forth a temporary
budget. The the previous uh the old legislation was that you could take 26.25% of your prior years adopted appropriations and set forth a temporary budget. in 2026 that was changed by
legislation down in Trenton to be 35% and it gets you through you know January, February, March and into April and then the assumption is that you're going to adopt the budget and you know you'll have your full year's appropriations because we don't
anticipate adopting the budget until June. um we're going to need additional appropriations to continue to pay our employees and and and pay for our operating budget. So that's what this resolution is doing. It's making
emergency appropriations to extend the temporary budget to get us through June. Um, one one point to note is that these temporary appropriations, none of them will
cause to exceed a budget account beyond what I've proposed in the 2026 budget. So, for example, uh if I take township treasurer OE budget and I my initial temporary budget was $500 and now I'm
proposing emergency appropriations of an additional $1,000, but in the 2026 budget, I'm only budgeting $500. So, I haven't there's nothing like that in in this temporary appropriation. the temporary appropriation along adding if
I add the temporary budget along with these emergency appropriations, they do not exceed any of the budget items in the 2026 proposed budget. I hope that made some sense. Um, but I it's a it's a important point to make uh because I'm
going to have to show these emergency appropriations in the budget document when it is adopted. So, it's going to show up in a separate column and that's per state law. >> Okay. >> For the adoption of the motion. >> I'll second.
>> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. one uh resolution 132-26 resolution
authorizing a contract with Downs Tree Service for the purchase and planting of 200 trees and the purchase and install I'm sorry installation of root barriers and deer fencing in an amount not to exceed $144,625. Councilwoman Ruden, you pulled that.
>> Go ahead, council. >> Yes. Um, first of all, uh, we have a a tree ordinance in town which requires that all trees that are planted in town be native trees. And yet in this proposal, one of the trees that is listed, and
there are going to be 29 of them, it's not a native tree um, in in New Jersey. Um, it has been an altered variant. It's a cultivvar and it is the reason why we push so hard to have native trees is
because it really affects the ecosystem. A native tree attracts the bugs, the bees, the the birds, all of the natural part of our ecosystem that we want to attract. When you put in a tree that is not part of the is not in a native tree,
it does not service what we are what we tried to do when we we wrote the tree ordinance. Um so for so for that reason I I would like the Princeton elm to be pulled out of this bid and I'd like I'd
like um the forester to choose another tree. I have suggested other trees that that that are small that will work under power lines and that um are can tolerate the
amount of salt that we receive on the streets. And that was one of his concerns that a lot of these trees some of these trees are easily damaged by the amount of salt that he also is trying to get smaller trees. Um so there are other choices that can be made. So for that
reason, I cannot, you know, vote affirmatively on a a tree planting bid that violates our own tree ordinance. That doesn't make any sense. The other thing is that I was very concerned about where the trees were planted last year.
We had 40 trees planted on Bgrade. Um, eight of them have have died. I've asked if th those trees that have died when they are replaced because they should contractually be replaced move to different areas in town. We have people
and areas all throughout town that are sorry to interrupt you. >> What I'm saying is is going to require some response, I would assume. Um, we have we have trees that were planted I
feel inappropriately an abundance in some areas and and a posity in other areas. To have 40 trees on one street doesn't make any sense. So I'd really like to know if there will be any oversight in this. And I also am
concerned also that who is going to make the determination of whether or not deer fencing, which costs an additional $250 or uh I'm sorry, it costs $125 or $250
to install tree barriers. So, how do we keep how do we keep a handle on that? Is the is the um contractor going to decide this one needs a roof barrier and we'll pay extra and this one needs a how do we how do we watch the costs on this?
That that's my question. So >> I don't know if you heard my first concern was that we are planting non >> we are we were we were consulting >> talking about >> so the Princeton elm I don't know I don't I can't speak to it that was what
our forester has spoken to us about he believes that there are other trees that they're not just indigenous to the state that are are viable for our our municipality and that's why he put them in there he's the forester he is the tree expert
So his opinion is that's why they put it in. If you would like to pull it out and that's what it is. That's that's the will of the council. We're not going to stand in the way, but that's that's his recommendation as the expert. Um we need to get this this approved so that the
planting can um start soon. And some of the reasons um you know thankfully I guess due to the the the impact the way the weather's been with the cold and everything else, I don't know how that would affect the trees. Mr. Kip did tell me that, you know, we they unfortunately every year some trees do die and our
percentage is a lot lower than what is anticipated in the in the average uh um growth rate. Um but we are in the process of replacing those trees. There's regard to the 40 trees. Um he has explained that on numerous occasions
both in public and and in meetings we've had and that was to help with the water absorption and that has worked. and those eight trees that you've mentioned over on that street is they he intends to have them replaced and at some point and um and as far as the deer fencing
that's going to be up to him too as well. He is the forester. We rely on him. I think it's been um been opined by several members of the council. We trust our people to do the work and um Mr. Kip is in charge of that. So he will be um taking that responsibility and working
with it. So, um, I I rely on him for this because he is the tree expert. If the Princeton Elm is the only thing that's going to hold this up, I don't I don't recall what the number is. If that's >> 29 29. >> Okay, it's 29. I I'm sorry. I don't have in front of me, but if that's I don't
know if they're for various reasons why he wants them in there, but I know for a fact that he told me that some of these trees, while they're not indigenous, are are beneficial to the community. >> He said that they're beneficial because they can tolerate salt. And what I'm suggesting is find another tree, and I
can name a few, that will tolerate salt, that will be appropriate for a street planting, and that are native. We cannot, as a municipality, we should not be violating our own ordinance. I >> I I'm not going to be able to refute or
or support that statement other than the fact that Mr. Kip put that forward, and if that's what he says, then I would support what he's looking. If you choose to remove that, that's going to be the council to make that amendment and remove it. I I leave it to the body to make that decision. >> I don't I don't know.
My package shouldn't have a contract attached to it. I don't think we have a compar do we? >> Um maybe >> I saw a comparison with respect to bids. But I guess while parents looking for that, uh, if we're changing out threes,
depending on how the bid is written, >> Mhm. >> I mean, we may be invalidating the bid. We just can't change the contract terms away from what they actually bid on. Um, and I don't uh Well, it's April 9.
Uh and today is yeah. So we we want to just table this uh for the next meeting so I could see if this change actually invalidates B. >> Okay. mayor. >> So, I don't know if all of the answers
were provided in the SharePoint by Walter Kip. Um but he did comment on Prince Princeton uh elm and he actually he wrote a very lengthy uh response to the questions that were posed and he says it's cultivated variety of Native
American elm specifically selected in 1922 by William Felmer and Princeton nurseries renowned for its high resistance to Dutch elm disease. This cultivar was chosen for its classic vase shaped form and strength often used to
replace diseased elm populations. And then he goes on to talk about the origin resistance highly resistant to Dutch elm making it's a reliable choice for planting. It's fast growing can reach height of 30 to 50 uh foot spread. Known
for its classic upright vase shaped structure adaptability thrives in full sun. Padep's usage goes on and on. So on all of the trees that were questioned, he has a response and I don't know if this was in
>> I I am familiar with that and I I mentioned that it is a cultivar. A cultivar is not a native tree. It is one that has been adapted. >> But he gives a lot of explanation of >> he gave an he he is correct in
everything that he said. However, it is not a native tree and as a result, it's not the type of tree that brings in our natural ecosystem. It does not provide to the township what we set out to
provide, which is a home for our bugs, bees, birds, >> um butterflies, and this does not provide it or it provides it to a lesser extent. Councilwoman Castle, um, you've got >> I I just want to make it clear though
that, um, as part of the bid spec, the the Princeton Elm or I've I've always referred to it as the only Americana Princeton uh, is >> No, I'm saying the the Princeton was
listed in the bid spec. Um, so that's just giving that information to to our attorney that it was listed in the bids back. The request was a quantity of 33. >> Um, so we may need to look at >> So look, it it is up to this council. I
am just pointing out that that a bid went out with with a violation of our own ordinance. >> Councilwoman Castelina. >> Okay. So this isn't the first time that this has happened. And I, you know, again, we want to, I know the directors
have a tough job. They try, they got to try to do what they think is best. Do we So, we have one or two choices. Do we put a amendment to the existing ordinance that states that there is that
flexibility when when there is that time? >> What do we actually say? Well, well, and I know why and I I hear you, but again, our the council needs to be notified, but because I hear you. You don't want to break the ordinance and I know the
reason why it's in there. I voted for it. I voted for it. I'm not versed in trees. I want, you know, we we invest in the trees. We want to make sure that they, you know, we get our our money's worth, that they're great for our community. But but here's, again, this
isn't the first time this come up. So why would he put it in the spec if it breaks the ordinance? This is where I get frustrated listening to this every >> and I wanted to just ask the question, is it actually a violation of our
ordinance as is being stated? Because I mean that's concerning, but I I don't I don't think he would intentionally >> Is it Is it a budget? Is it a budget thing? >> That tree ordinance I've never seen anything like it. >> Neither have we. Neither have we. Uh, so
I'm going to have to take a look at it and just because something appears to be not permitted in one section of it, that thing is so convoluted that it very well may be permitted somewhere else. >> Well, >> so we have enough, if I could just finish, council woman, please. Uh, we
have enough time. Uh, we have 60 days. The the bids were received on April 9th, so why don't we table it? I'll take a look at the tree ordinance to to explore what Councilman Ruden had suggested and
uh I'll also take a look at the bid which it certainly sounds like it's problematic. >> Yeah, it does. >> Yeah. >> Uh and I'll be able to report back to you at the next council meeting. So I move >> make sure that correct >> second. Thank you. >> And just so you for the conversation um
I know that we have to get these soon only because of the growing season. So if we So we're going to have to have an answer for you by the next meeting. So and then we have nurseries or or or we we may have to put this off to the fall just so you're understood. >> Thank you. No problem.
>> It's been moved and I know second >> Princeton Elm. >> Yeah. Councilwoman Castelina Tutel. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. Princeton in New Jersey
should be a native plant. >> Yeah. >> This ordinances on second and final reading 2955-26 an ordinance amending chapter 25 land use regulations section 47.5 organization of the revised general ordinances of the township of West
Orange to permit successive terms as chairperson and vice chairperson. Is there a motion to introduce? >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> Councilman Kobia. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> No. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes.
>> Council President Scorpa. >> Yes. >> First. >> No. Second. >> This is second reading. >> Does anyone in the um >> in the audience want to comment on this? >> This is on first reading. What are we doing? >> It's on second and final reading. >> We passed it.
>> 2970 26 >> 295. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Chairperson. Seeing no. Seeing none. Okay. >> Is there a motion to close public comment? >> To close public comment. >> I'll second.
>> Thank you. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman I'm sorry. Councilman Crobia. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> I move for the adoption and second. >> Well, I just have a statement. Uh 2955.
when this came up uh when it was first revised, I just want to go on the record that I did not support it at that time. >> Okay. >> I move for adoption and second. >> I just wanted a moment to speak to it as well. Um this uh
ordinance uh was uh born after some communication uh with uh the chairman as well as our planning director. Um the uh underlying ordinance the ordinance the language that we're
redacting that limited uh the chair uh person serving consecutive terms is not supported by the MLUL which is the governing body of law. Uh and there had there's no case directly on point. Uh however uh cases where uh municipalities
try to impose enhanced notice requirements uh for applications were strucken down and the court's rationale with respect to preeemption uh on those cases I believe would be analogous uh to the ordinance had it
ever been challenged. So I think that uh this ordinance is appropriate and I would ask that you support it. Um, it also runs somewhat contrary uh to uh I guess counterintuitive I would say. Uh
uh I I am a practicing land use attorney so I could tell from the practical impact as well as just from the municipal attorney position. >> You you want continuity and you want experience on your land use boards. uh the uh chairman of the board is
generally one of the more experienced members on the board and I I there's really no uh logical reason other than wishing to change the composition or or or the control of the board uh to try to
limit the chairmanship's duration and the MLUL already has in place the method to do that and that's to change the appointments as they come up >> uh and so there is nothing that authorizes it. I believe the court will would invalidate it if if called to
evaluate it and and I also think it's counterintuitive to leave it the way it was. >> Okay. Thank you very much for the explanation. That's also been the opinion that we've received every year this has been brought up from our legal team is that it was uh um what's the
proper terminology in fat towel when something is not appropriate when it's void because it >> oh void aio >> yes thank you >> your job not mine >> number four reason
>> okay but thank thank you for correcting the record for us as I said I did not support this the first time around. We were given that information in prior years and so I'm glad that we corrected it. >> All right. So I move for adoption on seconded. >> I second. >> Okay.
>> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> No. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. The motion carries. >> Okay. Uh ordinances on first reading.
Ordinance 2970-26, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-29.1 speed limits in general of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce?
>> Make a motion. Second. >> Oh, who do I pick? You both say nobody wants to go home. >> Everybody wants to go. >> We just want to move it. Just want to give it. >> Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> Councilman Kovia. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, yes.
>> Council President, the motion carries. >> No question. This came straight from the county. >> Yes, that's what the >> Do you have a question for? >> No, I just want to make that statement. It came from the county. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Or uh let's see. Ordinance 2971-26, an ordinance amending and supplementing
chapter 7 traffic section 32.2 restricted parking zones of the municipal code of the township of West Orange. Is there a motion to introduce? Second. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> Council member Koviaak. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes.
>> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President. The motion carries. >> 2972-26 calendar year 2026 ordinance to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and to establish a cap bank. Uh
is there a motion to introduce? >> Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. Yes. >> Councilman Fukovia, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Okay. Pending matters, new matters, council discussion. The first item is town trust resolution, a mirror resolution to executive order number 12. >> I have a quick question. We're going to executive session tonight. >> Uh, yeah. And yes, is our guest here,
whoever we need. >> I'm reaching out to him right now. might want to do this. We can go into pending matters and we'll >> Okay. >> At that point, >> the council president, can I make a quick recommendation if we could just go >> vote up or down on each one of these if we want to move to make a change because
>> do that and move this right along. >> I and I think uh Councilman Kobiac really covered this. >> So is does this mean that we're not going to have discussion? Is that what you're suggesting? >> Well, I I I just asked if we could just keep it brief. just get to the point.
Some of these we talked about. We didn't talk about cannabis. So, we should talk about that one and the transparency. >> First two we talked about. >> Okay. So, let's um if there is support for the >> one second. I I think that this is mis u misnamed. It is not a town trust
resolution. It's a resolution to create safe zones on municipal properties. Why is this called town trust resolution? >> This town was presented to me when at the uh the meeting. >> Okay. Can we just vote on it? >> Yeah, that's that's how it was presented. >> I don't think the name matters. We all
know what it is. >> So, but aren't they both the same? A and B, isn't it one and the same? >> Yes. >> So, we could >> So, it A and B are really the same. >> Okay. Yeah.
>> So, does anybody want to make a motion if they want to uh pass a resolution regarding this? >> Yes, I would like to make a motion to pass this. I think it's important. When you say to pass it, you mean to >> to move this forward, to make a resolution, to move forward.
>> And I would like I would like my colleagues to support this. They've heard from you've all heard from the residents. This is a real concern and we should do something to show our support and this is something that can be done and is being done all over New Jersey.
>> Okay. Is there a second? >> No, there hasn't been. >> Okay. Okay, let's move. You can say it fails. >> Okay. >> No second. I'm sorry. Council, >> looks like the motion. >> Okay. We beat this one.
>> Are we on B or we on C? >> We're on C. >> Yeah. Change the cannabis. >> Okay. I'd like I'd like to address that. Um we have been making money from our cannabis um establishments. They're bringing in a a a good chunk of change,
much more than what was in the budget, which really should be updated to show additional revenue. Um, in the past year and a half, we have over $127,000. They are we are being we're facing a a a
fiscal cliff. This is an easy way to bring in more revenue to the township. It's safe. It's being done in in other townships. And I think that we should vote to extend the hours till 10 p.m. >> So, I'm going to make a recommendation.
>> Uh, so here's here's my I talked to the one of the attorneys that I know has been reaching out to everyone um because I know I've always been uh opposed to doing this right now. Here's my concern. If we open up the ordinance, like we spent a lot of money, we spent
over $150,000 by the way on creating the ordinance, all the time that went in it. and I was on the task force and it was a very thoughtful process. I get it. They some of them are the extension hours. I don't
I don't agree with all of it, but I'm willing to compromise. I'm willing to support it to go to 10 p.m. during the week, but 9 I don't want to go past 900 p.m. on Sunday. Reason being, and the attorney was very uh uh happy to hear
that if my colleagues support that reason being two of these entities really are close to residential neighborhoods. I don't care about the, you know, I I mean, we hear about the liquor store. It's it's it's we don't
have any liquor stores that close um any any longer. So, I I just think if we could limit it on Sunday to 900 p.m. and the other days you want to go to 10:00, I I'm willing to support that if but again, that's all I'm willing to do. I'm
not I don't want to support opening up and going through the entire ordinance. If Mr. Morero, we instruct him to give him the time. He makes a quick edit >> and we get it at the next meeting and we go through, we pass it and that's the
only red line change. I'm willing to move forward this, but to spend more time and money. We're not making the income that we thought we were going to make. And I'm appreciative of the revenue that we are making, but um you know, in the beginning, I was told we were going to be able to buy a fire
engine with all the money we're making. And we made what 35,000 last year. So, it's it's it is a revenue and I appreciate it. I want to always help our small businesses. I've always been a supporter of small businesses, but I think we have to be mindful and have
that balance with the uh residents, especially two of the neighborhoods, and keep Sunday at 9. I don't and the attorney agree he was he would thought his clients uh would uh be amanable to that. >> I would agree with that and you know, it'll be a while before we break even on
this and um I have been a business person and I understand that their competitors are open later hours. So, I'm willing to um make the compromise and and uh >> Does everybody else support the times? >> Yeah, I fine with the times being as they've been um recommended, I don't
have an issue. Um I do believe that um there are other stores to sell different substances that are in residential neighborhoods that are open um past that that hour. So, I don't have a problem
with the time. I've been supportive of this from the beginning. I wasn't supportive of the reduced hours, but again, we tried. I apologize for for interrupting, council woman. >> Uh if there's a motion to amend, the motion should be seconded.
>> Okay. >> If if do you intend your >> So my motion is to amend the cannabis ordinance to change the time proposed cannabis >> proposed can this amendment to 1000 p.m. What is it? Monday through
>> Saturday. >> Saturday and Sunday they open Sunday uh to 9:00 p.m. >> And I'll second it. >> Okay. So then we should have a vote on that that amended >> that just the appropriate format. Let me just >> understood. Okay.
>> So on the on the amendment. >> Yeah. Hold on a minute. I'm just writing down. Okay. Sorry. Um Councilwoman Castelino on the amendment. Do you want to have any more discussion? >> I I sure like to say I would like to say something. I know that last year the the
revenue was disappointing, but this year we're on track to earn well over 300,000. So >> this is this is an easy source of revenue. And I don't think that we should be cutting the hours at all, even one night, because if you've been to these stores, and I have visited them,
they are very inconspicuous. They're quiet. Nobody in the neighborhood knows that they are even operating. They are not intrusive like a a liquor store or a bar. I don't really see the difference. And I think that if there's a way that
we can increase revenue, we should we should do it. >> Okay. Can we call the vote? >> Yes. Councilwoman Castelino on the amendment? >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak? >> No. >> Councilwoman Ruden? >> No. >> Councilwoman Williams? >> No. >> Council President Scarpa? >> Yes.
>> Okay. So, the motion fails. I move for the um actual resolution and the time change as indicated to uh be moved to the next agenda. >> Second. >> Okay. >> And nothing else added it. Just that. >> It's just the amendment of the times.
It's extension of hours. No other edits or amendments. >> Okay. >> Okay. I'll second that. >> Well, I already have a second from Councilwoman Ruden. Councilwoman Castelino. Uh, obviously I don't have support for 900 pm. U, so yes.
>> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> Council President Scarpa, yes. The motion carries. Thank you. >> So that's already drafted, so we'll just >> It's a very subtle change. >> Wonderful. Okay. Uh, transparency
ordinance. It says an ordinance of multiple features designed >> resolution supporting the installation of a traffic signal and related safety improvements at Gregory and Mitch. I just want to go back to that to the ordinance for the attorney. Yeah, I gave you an updated agenda.
>> I'm sorry. I'm still looking at that. >> I don't know changing the time if if you look at the cannabis ordinance itself. I'm not sure we have to notify the people to 200 feet. I forgot we put something in there. Any kind of change
would require that. So, just if you could just double check that, please. >> Okay. >> And again, you know, we we we made these very strict to as a compromise when these stores first came in and I appreciate all our business owners.
>> Okay. Transparency ordinance. Go. >> Um, may I may I speak to this for a second? >> Um, I I know that the transparency ordinance was uh uh Councilman Koviaak uh was uh a proponent of it and I did
exchange an email with with the councilman on this. I I I thought that this is something that would benefit if uh the councilman and I sat down and went through the ordinances. I had some
concerns that violated statutory >> uh rights >> and separation of powers between the executive and legislative branch. Um so I think that uh I could work with the councilman uh towards uh to to to
resolve what I think the conflicts are uh and then maybe that would be the ordinance that we should vote on. And the only reason why I'm I'm saying it that way is if we were to vote, my understanding is that we're voting on the the current draft of the ordinance
and I I I think that it's problematic and I'd rather address it first as opposed to going for a vote on Castelino. So I appreciate that comment because that I expressed to my colleague Lord I appreciate all his due diligence that I was concerned >> a lot of work went in
>> w with with that. Um, also I think the the well the administration will speak for itself, but I I just just saw parts of that being um cumbersome to our staff and so I just I just >> the control that you have
>> I just appreciate you with the with the pair of eyes on it because >> Yeah. and and and and there were some issues uh and I didn't have it in front of me right now because >> um there were some issues that would be effective uh that way. I mean it it wasn't a very
uh nimble way of addressing some of the issues. Uh and I understand transparency can't always be the most efficient uh or or or quick way to get from point A to point B. Um, I don't know if it makes sense uh to uh and and certainly uh
Councilman, maybe it makes sense for us to have a a a committee uh established to go through it or if we just start with the two of us and then have something to propose. >> I'd like to say I will not support
anything that limits the ability of my colleagues to ask questions. any time frames and limits put on their ability to ask or answer. >> I don't have it in front of me, but I don't >> and that and I had a problem with it because I found it >> Yeah, there was
>> intoler intolerable. >> Well, I I don't I don't recall that particular provision. I I know that the overriding concern was to bring the public in and and and get as much information to them or or more information that currently
exists. Um uh but there were there were components of it that uh I guess the governing body would be requiring members of the executive branch or or or the administration to do things right
>> uh that I I thought could be problematic and and are worth a little bit more scrutiny from a legal >> and I had similar concerns and as I stated earlier today, you know, we were elected to these seats to ask questions and to represent the public interests
and I will not vote for anything that um inhibits us from being able to do that. >> All right, there we have it. >> So So then I could work with the councilman and come up with something that um I mean obviously the ultimate choice
would would be his obviously but with my guidance maybe come up with a a revision to this and then have >> on the next agenda so that we can see it and review it. I suggest you send around. >> Okay. So maybe not the next agenda. >> Okay.
>> I I would suggest that whatever you come up with you send around maybe >> so that we can >> circulate >> opine on it. >> All right. Sounds great. >> And give suggestions perhaps. >> Yeah. >> Does anyone want to hear to this hear
from the sponsor of this proposed ordinance? I'm just I'm just asking. Is that is that something that it's okay to do council president? >> Of course. Councilwoman Ruden, did you want to >> Yes. I that this whole process of new matters was very belabored because
everybody on the council wanted to see the issues and have transparent to the public. But I didn't see it as transparent to the public because our unless I'm wrong, I never saw the issues
listed on new matters for the on the public agenda. >> What are you talking about? And in new matters, if you click on the the agenda, it does not say what on under new matters what the issues are that we will be discussing.
>> It's on the agenda. >> It says transparency ordinance, but it doesn't have the ordinance on there. >> I and I thought that was the whole purpose why this has been gummed up. No, >> because everybody in the everybody in the public was supposed to see what issues we are going to be discussing in
new matters. And in this it just it did didn't have it. speaker. >> The irony that I hope no one misses is that an ordinance about with 14 elements to increase transparency is a victim of
once again of the lack of transparency on our agenda. >> Exactly. How >> is because I gave this to you guys what a week ago was it? Stop. Stop. >> Go ahead. >> I gave this to you guys a week ago. >> Yeah. >> It was not on the agenda. Why is it not
on the agenda? We're talking about it. Why Why was the ordinance to increase the time for uh uh the cannabis not on the agenda? So that everybody who's interested could actually click on it
and say, "Oh, so this is what they're talking about." Well, maybe I need to add a 15th element to the transparency ordinance to say if we're going to talk about something at new business and we have something written, we should put it
on there and link it so that everybody out there could know. >> Yeah, >> just a suggestion. >> Okay, I would like to speak to that. So that Mr. Seorero got in touch with you via email and I was included on that email and he said it he had to review it
and that you would sit down with him and or Greg Pastor to go over it. So there was not a document to put on unless you're talking about your own document which there were a lot of problems with. So why would I put that on the agenda? Why would I put that up for people to
read? So, so we if if may I >> doesn't specifically ask me to do that. In all fairness to me, I will do whatever this council asks me to do, but you have to ask me. I'm not a mind readader. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, Mr. Samero can stand up there
and say that I'm I'm calling for uh transparency in Cuba and Revolion and all of the criticisms of it, but we are not giving the people a chance to know what the heck he's talking about. Now, he is fully capable of of speaking for himself. But
is it just me who says we're talking about something on the agenda? I've been talking about it for months that we need to give people a full idea of what we're talking about. Who knows how many other people would care about this? How how many how do we know? So, so if if it's
not if it's not uh uh a given, if it's not the default, if we have a piece of paper that's got a cannabis ordinance on it, got a transparency ordinance on it, the default should be to put it on there.
>> Well, that was never explained. >> I've been talking about it for months. >> It was never I was never asked to do that. So, unless I am specifically asked to do that, why would I put up a document that the attorney has an issue with
>> because we're going to have to duke it out. We're going to have boxing gloves tomorrow. I'm just kidding. Come on. I'm just kidding. >> No, I I trust what he said. >> And I trust what he says, too. I did not know that he did that. He said, "Don't put it up there." >> I He He didn't Nobody asked us to do
that. So, so it's not So, what you're telling me is it's not a default if if we have a written uh a written document that helps explain why something is on the new business agenda so that everybody in the township, if they care, could click on it. That's not the given.
>> It's not a default because the town attorney had an issue with it. >> We don't write >> Hold on. Counciloman Cast doesn't write legislation. That's another issue according to the code that everyone wants to follow all the time. only when it's convenient. Council
doesn't write legislation. The town attorney had a problem with the legislation. Why would I even think to put that out there unless I was actually asked and then I would have asked Mr. Samaro at that point to be perfectly honest. >> And council counc I I think that I I
understand the councilman's >> okay >> position. Um, it's technically maybe I'm thinking out loud here, but maybe it's technically not legislation. So, it's actually on for consideration as an
>> or exactly and it's been legal when it's a new business. It's it's a discussion point. >> Exactly. This has always been a topic listed to discuss >> and that's what public comment has always that pending matters has always been >> matters. I I understand both both ways.
I mean, I I think we just have to be a little bit more clear when we want it on the uh >> Tell me. >> Councilwoman Castle has something. She wants >> Are you done, council? >> Uh I I think so. >> Okay. So, so to my understanding with
pending matters with, you know, we've been going through this the past few years because we I didn't have this in the first eight years of my term uh tenure is, you know, I get it. Everybody wants to write their ordinances. I've
always went through counsel when I wanted to propose something. It's not legislation when it's in pending matters. The whole what I thought what we vetted out was that when it got to pending matters, somebody had the whole reason for it coming to pending matters
so we could do a straw poll to see if we want to push it forward and incur the expenses of our attorney. Now, no offense, Mr. Samara, but Mr. Mr. Well, not not him, but Mr. >> Not complaining about the
>> I completely concur with that. Well, but >> so so you know and that was this is all about it's it's about do we want to do we think at the value that's why I said to councilwoman I was pointing to you is that all we want to change because I'm not supportive of moving forward with
revising the cannabis order because we spent over $150,000 because that ordinance bounced around like a pingpong ball for two years. And so again, there's that expense that
everybody we got to cut $500 from a line item, $1,000 from a line item. Now he's just talking about hours hours of time, which if the majority of the body wants to do, that's fine. I don't feel that we
we have to do work. We can't always rely on the public. So if this body wants to move forward with something, we could do it. I get what you're saying. You're passionate about your ordinance. I I I get it. Um but until it's legislation, I don't think it should be on here because
I don't think the attorney should be spending time unless the council majority of the council wants to move forward with something. And and and and again, I appreciate council uh Councilman because you really do work really hard to try to get the transparency thing ironed out. But unfortunately, it it's not always, you
know, not to your fault. It's just not always perfect. We all like to talk and and and we all have different styles up here. We're five different individuals. >> I got you. >> I am done now. Council, >> thank you. Um I I just wanted to again reiterate the process and we deliberated
and spent a lot of time on what the purpose of pending matters was going to be. Um Madame Clerk can attest to this. My understanding of pending matters is that it is discussed by this body and if there is a majority which is three then
it gets moved to new business or to the attorney's office so that it can be reviewed and put into the appropriate language so that we can vote on it. Um, if that is something different that we're doing, then can someone please
clarify what the process is going to be moving forward because that's what we've always done, >> right? I'm comfortable with pending matters being what it's always has been as you described. Uh, Councilman Kovak, >> all I can say is I I I think we work for
the people, the residents of this town, and when we're taking official action, getting paid, you know, everyone was getting paid their tax dollars that they should have an opportunity to know what was going on. But I do want to just I I I think I need to correct you. The first
criticism that you had of this ordinance had to do with time limits. And I know you'd like to talk about it a lot and and I know that we disagree that that uh the length of a council meeting doesn't matter so long as everybody gets to say
everything they want. I don't agree. I think we need to try to take some steps, but it's fine for you to have that. But there is nothing in this transparency ordinance that says anything about restricting anybody's opportunity up here in the day to talk until the sun
comes up. And I just want to clarify that because again, we don't have this up on the on the website, so nobody knows what the heck we're talking about while we're talking about it. And uh I'm making the meeting run long, so I'm just going to stop here. >> Absolutely.
>> This conversation is just absurd to me. I have tried to bring certain things on for new matter and I was told that I could not bring it on unless I had some sort of document that I could circulate to the to my colleagues and that also as
as Councilman Koviaak has said almost every single time that that needs to be publicized so that the public knows when we are going to be discussing something. All we're doing is discussing something, but we need a piece of paper in front of
us so that everybody can be briefed on whatever issue we want to bring up. So, I wanted to bring up the the cannabis ordinance and I had the the draft. It is a draft that
was done by the person who is promoting this who is an attorney. And that is what I wanted to be presented so that everybody could read and think about it before they get into the meeting. And that should be up in new matters and it should should have been attached. I
don't see any place where the new matter where it was attached in new matters. And that is what we've been discussing every single week. We finally just did it, but it wasn't put on and the attachments weren't there. I'm gonna um push back on that a little
bit because last uh council meeting we were presented with this immigration trust document um that you presented of the document that wasn't emailed to us prior to it was something that you wanted us to consider and it was
presented to us in real time. If there is documents or if there are documents uh better English um then those should be sent to us electronically for deliberation and again the point is I don't believe that it is something
appropriate for the public to see that has not been vetted by our legal counsel that's what our legal counsel is here for so it would have been a misrepresentation for the public to see this document if it is inherent in concerns between the
role and responsibility of the administration and the role and responsibility of the legislative body. Again, just send us everything. Make sure the legal department has um truly vetted what we sit at this day is time
and time again, you're told, we're told, each of us are told this isn't within the law. This isn't your responsibility. And irregardless of the council that we're receiving, we vote against it anyway. We That just happened tonight. We We received legal counsel, a
recommendation to support something and it's in our best interest as a municipal body and we still don't support it in a 50 vote. And that's our privilege and right, but I don't understand why we are having Mr. Samero here if we are not
going to listen to his advice and counsel. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> I I just have a couple of suggestions. Uh regardless and I don't know the history uh you know of this particular section
of the agenda. I don't know how it was handled in the past, but particularly when we're talking about ordinances, um, an ordinance is introduced and then upon adoption
or immediately before adoption, there's a public session for the public to participate in. If the se if this section truly is to explore whether or not a particular idea or concept
>> is viable and this body wants to authorize the expenditure of time and services to develop it. while in this particular case and I don't I think we all know that the councilman put a lot of effort into that
ordinance and I can understand him wanting to showcase it to to to show the the thought that he put into it and that the public should have an idea of of of how what he what he's thinking.
We likely could cover that in a discussion like if if he had the ordinance in front of him, >> he could indicate well the ordinance would accomplish A, B, and C. Not necessarily reading it verbatim, but giving, you know, a bird's eye view of what it is. I think that that's all
that's necessary for the governing body to digest the concept and see if it if there's support for it to proceed. Mhm. >> Um, and I understand that there may be expect there may have been expectations or things done to the contrary and
certainly you're free to ignore what my idea is. Uh, but I think that we need to understand that there's an ambiguity here. There's some misunderstanding here and let's develop how we're going to go forward so that we don't come across
these issues again. >> Agreed. Um, so that's just my my my food thought. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Do we have executive session? Are the persons who we need to go into executive session? Are they here?
>> Moraldo just went in to set up the >> the call or whatever. We can recess >> recess to executive session. >> So what just real quick? So are we going to are we >> Oh, we have to come back close. >> What? Yeah. But you might as well.
>> Yeah, let's finish this up. >> Is there anything else? >> The transparency. Are we going to move forward or we have to decide if we're going to move forward or not? >> I'm at this point. I'm okay to I'll make a motion uh to move the councilman's transparent transparency ordinance to
the next step. If it's going to be too long of a process, I I I'm not in favor of that. But >> what is the next step? Maybe we should clarify. >> Mr. sera has to review it. But I I mean how many hours, you know? >> Yeah. I mean, this is really necessary.
>> I mean, I I I look, I would say this. If it's something that's going to take more than a few hours, >> forget it. >> I'll stop where I'm at and I'll and I'll and I'll bring it to the an executive session to your attention. >> Okay. I think that's fair. Yeah. >> Because I think that we should spend a
lot of time. >> But but I I think that there that there might be a misconception about what the concept was, >> right? I I don't recall seeing anything in there about limiting anybody's participation. I know that that was just >> there was a certain amount of time and minutes for certain things. I
>> I don't recall that being in the version that I just >> Okay. >> Wrong document. Council President, excuse me for the >> No, no, no, no problem. I just >> Okay. So, it's good to have something that we can all look >> at understanding what it was about transparency and and and
>> and certain things that the administration or uh employees would do to facilitate that. >> Okay. >> Beth. >> All right. So, I guess we have to take a we have to take a little vote. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's fair to to let the the attorney get a quick look at it
and and let the administration see if it's doable and feasible. So that's my motion to let them to look at it for >> second. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Council Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes.
>> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. Yes. The motion carries. >> Now, can I make a motion to recess to executive session? >> And I'll second. >> Thank you. >> Councilwoman Castelina. Councilman
Kroia. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Everybody leave their phones. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> Yeah. You're supposed to announce when we'll be back. Secretary. >> Oh. Um. Do we have a sense of um how
long it's going to be or >> is that I just say >> I can't predict. I mean >> Okay. Thank you, West Orange, for sticking with us. I make the motion to go back into uh
public session >> and to adjourn. >> And to adjourn. I could do that all at once. >> Second. >> One shot. >> Yes. All right. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? The meeting is adjourned. >> Good night. >> Good night.
>> Good night. >> Good night. Bible said one