Good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for October 16, 2025. We are just a little behind schedule. Uh, but thank you for joining us this evening. As always, there is no public comment on Zoom. Uh, but if you join us here in council
chambers at 66 Main Street, you'll be able to address the council during public comment. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor the floor over to Council Credit. >> Thank you, Mr. Fagen. Welcome everybody to our October 16th, 2025 meeting. At this point, I always defer to Madame
Clerk. >> Thank you. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the Township
Clerk's Office on January 7th, 2025, and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Ruden >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa >> present. >> Councilwoman Castelino >> present. >> Council President Kovia
>> present. >> Thank you. >> The order got mixed up because I was following spread from when she took over. >> So we have a tree tonight in the conference agenda. We have a young entrepreneur who has basically lived in
West Orange all his life who has created a board game focused on spreading kindness in the world. I thought that was a great idea. I think we could always use a little bit more kindness. So, I just want uh uh uh Mr. Kane, James
Kaine, to come up and just talk a little bit about his uh game and hopefully the video will work. Mr. game, please come up. >> You want me to go games? >> Uh, I think we'll ask in the video. Maybe we can try it at the end. >> Okay. Whatever you want.
>> I'm here to please. >> All right. >> Well, when I walked in, it was working. >> Yeah. Well, we maybe we can give it a whirl at the at the end or something. That sounds good. >> Yeah. Um, but uh hey, good uh good evening, West Orange. Let's go fishing.
Uh, my name is James Kane and as Joe mentioned, I'm a longtime West Orange resident. I am the owner of a board game small business called Kane's Games named after my last name. And uh, I'm out with my very first game. It's called Fishing
for Compliments. The game designed with kind in mind. All about spreading positivity. >> Oh, excellent. All about spreading positivity and making people feel great about themselves. So here to tell you a little bit about it tonight and see potential use cases within the town and
appreciate the time and uh attention this evening. So without further ado, I do have um a video here that explains a little bit of the background of the game, but for technical reasons, I think we'll, you know, skip it for now and I'll kind of go through um uh some of
the other points I have prepared today. Uh >> James, I'm sorry. requires a transmitter and a receiver. >> Okay. >> And you should be >> Oh, I see what you mean. Okay.
>> Excellent. Okay. >> So, here are some pictures of the game to kind of set the scene here. And I do have a physical copy if anyone wants to take a look in person. So,
so what I'll do um to set the stage um and tell you a bit more of the background uh here is is one kind of tell you how the game came to be. Number two, a little bit about how the game works and number three um how it could potentially be used uh within West
Orange and beyond. So on the first point, how did we get here? Well, I would attribute uh how the origin of this game to two main sources. One source is I love board games and the other source being uh my maternal grandmother. So on the first point
loving board games. So on the right hand side you'll see picture of me, my dad who's in the audience tonight. Dad uh if you can uh give him a shout. There we go. That's my dad and uh my uh paternal grandfather uh playing games here right here in West Orange uh 20 plus years
ago. So I've loved games all my life. It's how I got closer to family growing up. It's how I met some of my closest friends in both high school and college and how I've reconnected with a lot of folks in person postcoid. So, at every stage of my life, games have been very
meaningful. Uh on the right hand side, you see a picture of uh me and my maternal grandfather uh who passed about 10 years ago, but he was a huge source of inspiration for the game for two reasons. one, he was a chemist and so I
was always fascinated by what he was doing in the lab. He came out with a number of patents around flavors and fragrances. I thought it was the coolest thing ever to go out and create something of your own. So that gave me the confidence to be able to do something like this. And he was also a
very infectiously positive person. So for example, instead of signing off his emails with the words thanks sincerely, he would sign them off with the words good thoughts. So no matter what was going on in life, he would always end his messages on a positive note. And that infectious positive attitude that
he had, I wanted to encapsulate in this game and also follow in his creative inventive footsteps. So that is how we got to here over the last two years. So in 2023, I said, "All right, let's do this. I love games so much. Let's
actually make one." So this is on the lefth hand side. You'll see here me play testing uh the game with uh very generous volunteers uh here in town uh to get a sense of you know what the game dynamic should be in 2024 you see uh in
the middle there that's me with a sample of the game I got middle of last year so last year was all about the art the legal the manufacturing of the process and now in 2025 for half the year uh was dedicated to um logistically being able to get this on Amazon and other
platforms like my website and to be able to be here in front of you and say that this is now available. So two-year long journey uh on my own, but have certainly had a village uh along the way. So that's the background. So now I I'm thinking we can get a little bit into
how the game actually works. So in essence, as one can imagine because of the name of the game, it's a game all about giving and receiving compliments. So you play with a group of four to 10 people. every uh every iteration of the game. Um if it's your turn, you're the
person receiving compliments from the other players. Everyone's giving you comp everyone else is giving you compliments and you go around until everyone has had a round in which they are the person receiving compliments. So everyone gets a a fair shake at getting their their fair share of compliments.
So in practice, how does this work? So step one in terms of pictures you see at the top left, you roll a dice. That dice has um three colors on it, purple, yellow, and red. And they correspond to the three categories of the game. There's a living, laughing, and loving
category, each with their different flavors of uh compliment prompts, themes. So, for example, questions might be, "What makes me a great friend to others? What zoo animal am I most like?" Or, "If the mayor of my own town were to name a day after me, what would I be honored for?" So, it really runs the
gamut of different ways you can say nice things about people. So once you choose one to be complimented about, this is the person receiving compliments. You read it aloud and all the other players then write a compliment about you and they do it on one of the fish cards.
That's part of the game here. So you can see here they write with a little dry erase marker. When they're done, they put the the card orange side up on the table. Um all the while the person receiving compliments, they have a special card. It's called the catch of the day card. And on that card, you're
trying to guess what people are going to say about you. So much like you're fishing for a compliment in real life, not only do you want someone to say something nice about you, but you often have something specific in mind that you're trying to eek out of the people you're trying to get compliments from. Um, so that's step two there that you
see at the top right on the bottom left. Uh, then what happens is you actually try to fish the compliments into the box. That's one of the ways that you can score in the game if you're receiving compliments. So, you take all the fish cards that you just got compliments on that are on the table, and you take a
little fishing rod that's part of the game here, and you use the rod to fish as many fish as you can into the box in 30 seconds. So, you get points for that. You also get points if you correctly guess what people are going to say about you. And at the very end of a round, you
see at the bottom right there, you give out points to your favorite compliments. In this game, points are allocated via little heart tokens. So, no matter who you are in a given round, if you're receiving compliments, you can score points. If you're giving compliments, you can score points. It's a highscoring
affair where everyone can win uh in some way, shape, or form. So, that's a bit about the how the game works. Um, these are some sample responses of uh some prompts that I uh you know, was playing with uh with with folks a couple weeks ago. I'll leave that up for a couple
moments so you can kind of glance over some of them, but that's to kind of give you a flavor of uh the types of compliments that you can get depending on what compliment bait prompt card you put out. Uh so a lot of different ways again to be able to compliment or say
something nice about somebody. So one thing I want to emphasize here in terms of usage is that while there was a you know child in the picture uh two slides ago that this is a game for everyone because everyone whether they're willing
to admit or not likes a compliment. So in addition to children um the game could be played with those in college. So if you see on the left hand side there that is an article written in the Chicago maroon. and I went to University of Chicago. They wrote an article uh
about a positive review of the game of college students playing in the middle there. Uh I played the game quite a bit with young uh your adults in their 20s and 30s who have loved the game. So that's us playing uh Thanksgiving this past year. And then uh on the uh far
right, you can also play uh with older adults crowd. Really anybody here. So effectively the age range of the game is ages 8 to 99. So appeals to a very wide audience. So in terms of potential use cases within the town, I think there are
several, but this is just to name a few. So this slide is not exhausted. So on the top left here, I think it could be great within West Orange public schools, especially as it relates to HIV um type legislation. HIV uh being harassment,
intimid intimidation, bullying. Um, so from an anti-bullying perspective, I think this could be great. Um, also for from perspectives of afterchool programming, um, student counseling and even the faculty of my high school, they used it in their leadership retreat a
couple months ago and they loved it. So, not only students, but the faculty as well. If you see at the top right corner, could also be used in the wreck department, not only for traditional events like your typical board game night or ice breakers, but also themed events. So think coffee and compliments,
cookies and compliments, cups, cones and compliments if you want to throw in some an ice cream theme. So uh lot of different uh ways to be able to engage the town from a wreck department standpoint. If you look at the bottom right left there uh from the West Orange library uh could be used for game nights
there. Um and then the bottom right um the mayor's wellness campaign. Um they're I know that's something that's a lot of towns in New Jersey subscribe to um and traditionally thought of I at least what I can gauge from a activity a physical activity standpoint but I think
also from a mental health standpoint uh wellness standpoint in that regard u I think this game is a fantastic fit. So in closing, I'll give you kind of three reasons why I think that this would be a great sort of initiative to support. One is the versatility of the game. So can
be played with a wide variety of age ranges, a wide variety of different uh depart departments within the town. Um and uh I've gotten a lot of different uh feedback from all sorts of different players and occupations and folks who
have played the game. Um, also the connectivity to West Orange. So, you know, if you look at our town symbolism where invention lives, I think this would be a fantastic opportunity to be able to really showcase an invention from one of West Orange and Joan. Uh,
you know, I I've really kind of like I've mentioned, I've lived here for basically my entire life and I really took that inventive spirit and embraced it and I think that'd be great to kind of showcase uh within town. And then lastly, of course, on the the positivity front, you know, I think also relating
to town symbolism with the light bulb, you know, this is something that could really make the town a brighter place in uh in some regards. So, call that a win, a win, a win here. So, with that, thank you for your time and attention and uh happy to answer any questions you might
have. >> So, the first question that came to me, then I'll call on everybody else. Do you have to be truthful? I'm just imagining I'm playing the game and I'm not getting anything. I can't guess what people are going to
say and they're not they don't know what to say. So, >> well, I'm sure you're you're selling yourself uh short, Joe, from the wonderful parenting that I hear you're you've been doing. uh uh but there is no you know there's no checking of uh you know the the the compliment veracity I
will say so um but um but yeah I I think everybody uh it people are typically pleasantly surprised with the the the very thoughtful compliments that they get when they play. Please, ma'am. >> So, uh, James, I want to just say, uh,
thank you. That was very enlightening. And, um, I'm ready to say go for it at Shark Tank. You know, that should be your next stop. So, I was waiting to say hello sharks when you started, but great, great presentation and giving everyone compliments. You really hit hit
it right with the HIV with the schools because, you know, that's been an issue for many many years separate, especially with cyber bullying. So, Great job. Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. >> I look forward to see you on Shark Tank in the future, >> Mayor.
>> So, yeah. So, we had a fun game night at Benji's a few months ago. Um, that's where I learned about this game. Uh, it really is fun to play and you do. It does make you have to think. I liked one of the compliments that was up there. It said, "You seem reliable."
So, it's kind of a compliment. That's something I would get. >> Oh, that not that's the same batch, right? Not crazy. So, and you're right. This is where invention lives. So, and you proved yourself. And we do have a mayor's wellness campaign. I started that when I first got elected. So, we
can certainly take you up on that. >> Julie noted. Yeah. Thank you, Mayor. >> You're welcome. >> Anybody else? >> Oh, yes. Well, >> this would be wonderful in my classroom. I'm a speech language pathologist. >> Yeah. And kindness is our big big initiative. You know, we start that off
every morning and we get emails constantly and I teach a lot of this. So, this would be wonderful for my classroom. But what I liked about it was the adult version playing with adults. I think it's very interesting to have to think about how people are going to perceive you. And I wonder what the
accuracy is, right? You know, can people accurately kind of perceive the compliments that people would make of them or are they totally, you know, off base? But I think that would be very interesting to play with adults as well. >> A lot of variability on that point with the adults. It's it's tough. That's you know that's what separates the winners
and the the you know the extra whoever gets the extra hearts during the game is if you can guess you know what people are going to say about you. But I will say too if anyone's ever seen the show whose line is it anyway. There's this trope on the show that the points don't matter. And very rarely when I'm playing with folks do act people actually count
up the hearts they get at the end of the game because I think people are are are not so concerned that the the hearts are just kind of a construct to hold things together. You know people ultimately don't really care about the the scoring. And on the kids point I will say this has been uh played in schools and kids
love it especially the fishing component. They love uh you know the fishing rod. Yeah. Um in a fifth grade classroom high high school setting um all across the board. So, >> oh, I use that in kindergarten, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of lot of potential there. >> I can't wait to play with it. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, I don't want to get ahead of you, but are you thinking about a digital version? And how would the fishing rod work? >> Uh, I think it'd be pretty tricky from a a digital version, uh, standpoint. Um, I think it's, you know, probably going to stay, you know, in an inerson sort of
game perhaps forever. Um, we shall see. Uh, I think I probably have my uh, you know, my time pretty occupied with now that this launched in June. By the way, this is available on Amazon and my website. Uh, got to got to plug available on my website uh,
kanesgames.com as well as Amazon. So, I got my hands full with the marketing. I'm a oneperson operation. Uh, you know, I'm not, you know, Hasbro Patel Mattel with kind of an army of folks out here promoting a game. Uh, just an individual with a really great village, my dad included. Hence, you know, he's out out
here in person supporting me tonight. So, uh, got my hands full in the time being, but maybe something that's I can contemplate more down the line if I do in fact have a a team or another inventive idea or spin-off or something. >> Sounds good. I know you have a a video
of about two and a half minutes. I thought it was working when I came in before the meeting started. Do you want to give it a shot? >> I guess we can give it a go. Uh, yeah. Might as well give it a give it a whirl. The video is like a super shot of caffeine. You'll see exactly what I'm
talking about as soon as >> it was filmed in the morning after at least one cup of coffee, maybe more. >> Yes. called the super confidence all spreading positivity. How you play is you take the cards to
play with. People write down compliments about you and then you will in turn guess what people are going to say about you. Earn points with wits. You can fish the push box. You get points for correctly guess what people are going to
say about you and you give out points to your favorite. I love fish because it's a game all about others. is supposed to be fun, simple, wholesome, inclusive, familyfriendly, and I think to be used
in a variety of settings. Parents can use this game with their kids to teach them about the importance of kindness. I think teachers can use this with students to create that respectful classroom environment as conducive to learning. Arrows can play this with some
of their clients to remind people. What makes them special and is that they have a tremendous amount of self worth at the risk of sounding like Dr. Seuss, you can play this here. You can play this anywhere. I said all this heroes. I think it's true. That's part of the reason why I'm so excited about it. This
all started via a January 2023 New Resolution to make something of my own. And this says extends in art from my grandfather. taught me to be creative and and also he taught me the very essence of
this game to be kind, to be respectful, to be nice to others since he would sign off his letters and emails and there were good bots and so that has been forever really I hope that by making me I also have
this impact on others said confidence to get hands so so many folks edition of confidence on either games.com or it's all story games on social media. >> All right, thanks very much and best
wishes. >> Thank you for the time. Next on our conference agenda is a discussion about next year's uh council meeting dates. And I'm not sure we have much time to discuss it now, but everybody has this. I want to compliment
Madame Clerk for thinking about thinking ahead to uh get us on the schedule uh for next year. Uh, I'm not sure we're ready to take a look at it now, but perhaps for the October 28th meeting, we can come back and uh figure out the
times. Sound like a plan. >> Yeah, I'm not ready to Yeah. do it tonight. >> Okay, >> good. Uh, we have a little bit of time. We We have three minutes for council leaison announcements. Anybody? >> Yeah, I do. Go ahead. You want to go?
She raised her hand first. >> Council Ms. Scarp, are you ready for? >> Oh, yeah, sure. I'm ready. Um, planning board. Uh, everybody knows we've had a lot of important things going on at the planning board, not only the West Essex Highlands, um, continuing, uh, saga, but which you
should tune into because it's very interesting and very important for our township. Um, but we've also had our affordable housing plan uh, put forth. And at the planning board, many of you probably know the plan that was put
forth was not met with enthusiasm by members of our town, our residents. They came out in full force and expressed a lot of their concerns. So, it was tabled at the planning board. Uh I and my council colleagues have gone back to the administration and made many
recommendations. I hope they will uh put them forward. And on November 5th at 7:30, I believe it's going to be on Zoom only. There'll be no in person. Uh we will be the they will be revealing that
to the planning board and we will be voting on it. So if you care about the way our town is being developed, I would like you to tune in and to pay attention. Uh the seniors of course are always on the move looking for opportunities to socialize. Uh we are
having a happy hour on Tuesday, this Tuesday the 21st. If anyone would like to join us, uh please feel free to call me. You could me get me at 973-665-4780 or you can email here me here at the council. But the seniors are really
looking forward to continuing with happy hours and our supper club which we kind of got started. Our older adults advisory board meeting is on Monday the 27th and we invite any seniors who want to learn about what we're doing about
programs and issues for seniors in town to come. We have wonderful speakers. Thanks to Sheila Lefkowitz, our chair who has done a wonderful job for no money, for completely free has gotten us incredible speakers for every meeting
and uh this meeting we will have Mayor McCartney. So we are all looking forward to that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Councilwoman, >> question. >> Oh, sorry to speak. Okay. Um, so this month I met with the rent leveling
board. I am not a voting member because I am a council liaison, but it is a really incredible group of of people who will be making decisions about communities that have issues that are renters. So on November
um 13th, we will be evaluating an application from Crestridge Apartments which is um seeking to double the rent um uh not double but to vastly increase the rent for the tenants. And that will
be an applica an an opportunity to hear both from the community and from the um applicant who is looking to expand on that property a gym and other um buildings that are going to incur an
increase in rent for the community. So that's very important if you live in that community um to come out on that date. Um, as far as um, uh, Council Councilwoman Scarpa's remark on the planning board, I would just like, since we have the mayor here tonight, I would
like to just, um, bring out my concern that the planning board meeting, which will determine the face of West Orange for the the the rest of our future um, not be only on Zoom, but be in person. And with the Zoom possibility, I think
it's really important that our residents get to see these plans and that they they are able to speak directly to the board and not be on a on a Zoom program. So, I just like to bring that to um to your attention. And that's it for
my my council leaison. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. >> Thank Thank you, Council President. Uh I'm going to echo that comment, too. I know I know we can't control that because that is for the planning board. So, if if the mayor is able to to ask
them and actually you're you're a rep um councilwoman. Um but yeah, I think a meeting like that should should too be in person because it's so important. Um just going back, I just want to thank a few um people this week. Um the West
Orange Unico was out in full force to celebrate on front steps with the uh high school teaching staff uh for Italian heritage month and uh what a very nice presentation it was the other evening. Uh the program has flourished
over 300 students which um was really impressive to to see and hear that. Um, so also last week at Downtown Alliance meeting, I want to thank um I want to thank a bunch of people. So, first of all, we had Main Street USA come out to
go over strategic planning and to it's a process to obtain some more grant funding um to build up our downtown. Uh over 600 people who took our survey uh online. I really appreciate that because that that feedback and that data is
instrumental in the process and uh also want to thank everyone who came out to the focus groups. We had a bunch of focus groups last Wednesday, my colleagues uh came and and the mayor. So really appreciate your caring about our downtown as we uh work together to move
it forward uh to build upon it. So, um, thank you to everyone because, uh, for participating and, you know, we talk about our commissioners this evening. Uh, I I just want to just cl make a clarification. All our commissioners, uh, that serve on all our boards. Um,
and a shout out to our public's relations commission, too, because working with the downtown on um the, um, with the World Cup coming this summer. So, there's a great opportunity. The World Cup coming next year. the chamber's working on some uh items as
well as our public relations commission and our downtown alliance commission uh with the mayor's office. And this is a great opportunity to help um our small business owners here in the township and some information will be forthcoming to my colleagues uh in regards to that. Um
but our our commissioners work, as Councilwoman just said, free of a charge. I think there was something on Facebook about one of our, you know, commissions that they didn't get paid or some article. Let's try to stay off of Facebook as much as possible. But all all of these folks are volunteers in our
township and we really appreciate their time and their energy that they do spend on all these commissions because they none of them do get paid for it. Um, so I just wanted to bring that up and thank them. Thank you, Council President. >> Thank you. We are a couple of minutes
past our start time. So I would like to move to our public meeting and uh that means again referring to madame clerk. >> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the open
public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger and the West Orange Chronicle on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025.
Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Council President Koviaak, >> present. >> Mayor McCartney, >> will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. Top of the
agenda is public comment, but before we get cranking on that, I just want to go over a few things, make sure we're all on the same page. uh I will call on you and uh give you a number or a a a uh uh in line to come up
and speak to the uh uh at the deis. I'm going to hold off on the rest of this explanation because I can see uh Mr. Fagan up here ready to go. He's starting to chew on the microphone. So, >> no, I've ate I've eaten.
>> So, we've got we've got a few people and then when we get to uh uh the rest of the public, we I I'll come back to this. Mr. Fagan. >> Thank you, Council President. I just want to say uh in my opening remarks that I would be excellent at that game and for the reason why I'd always be
able to predict what someone's going to say about me, but they're not always going to be compliments. Uh but I would look forward to playing that game. So tonight uh I I want to start with that the uh grace period has been extended for the fourth quarter taxes and the
details about this are on our website and the uh the date will be announced. It hasn't been announced as of yet but uh uh you can keep uh your eyes on the website and social media but the uh fourth co the grace period has been extended. Um, also there's election
information you may have heard. We have an election coming up in the state of New Jersey. Uh, we'll be here I think in 3 weeks or less. Um, the, uh, I believe the deadline for voter registration has expired, but if you go to our website and follow this graphic that there are
some important there's some important information about the upcoming election. Uh this Sunday, I believe, yes, the 19th, uh there's going to be a Ridgeway Park dedication in memory of Susan Borg. Uh some of you may remember Susan for those of you that don't. She was a
former West Orange director of planning and development, I believe, for 26 years. Hopefully, the weather will hold out. And Ridgeway Park after Sunday will be officially known as Susanborg Park. Um at the end of the month, I believe uh
this is the 24th, uh that will be on us before you know it. Uh Karen Mango uh is doing an excellent job with the police community service unit and she has organized this breast cancer awareness walk. Uh it's also part of the mayor wellness campaign. There are details on
our website and and social media and also the uh community service uh division of the police department uh under Karen Mango has also arranged this uh Halloween festival uh and that's October 30th at 3:30 to 6:00 at the
Timothy Grove substation. That's 92 Washington Street here in West Orange. Pumpkins, music, candy, and face painting. Um now there have been no bear sightings in West Orange. um of recently uh but there have been bear sightings uh
throughout the state. Most of the bear sightings in the state are in Mars, Warren, Sussex County, but all 21 counties have um have had bear sightings. And it's important to mention this because uh this is the season where the bears are looking to build their
winter den. So, you should be aware and just a couple uh tips really common sense. Make noise. Don't show the bear that you're scared. Avoid wearing headphones so you're have situational awareness. Keep children close to you. Never approach or feed a bear. And uh
keep your dog on a leash. And you know uh I also should mention that this is the time of the year for deer. Uh uh and deer are much more common in West Orange than bears. Certainly. Uh you know, you just have to be aware dawn to dusk is the most uh dangerous time in terms of
when the deer are on the move. Uh Merkantile Law, just a reminder, it's annually renewable each October 1st. That doesn't mean that the license expires uh on October 1st. It's a rolling renewal. There are details about this on our website. Uh also like to
give some recognition to our West Orange Community Band. They have a um a concert coming up at Liberty Middle School uh Wednesday, October 29th, 7:30. They do a tremendous job. Come out and support them. Um, also our senior uh senior
services uh they had there's a West Orange adult uh programming uh there's a division of taxation property tax relief filing event at the library on October 18th, Saturday uh that from 10:00 a.m. to 2 p.m. This is ex especially helpful
uh if you have to trying to navigate the many forms uh that are are for the senior freeze anchor or stay in New Jersey. Uh so uh come on out. Uh this information is on our uh website and social media. And uh of course uh
October is domestic violence awareness month. Um this is an important program in her shoes because it talks about the perspective from victims of uh domestic violence and how often they are fearful of coming forward. So this will add a
new perspective to that and hopefully uh bring some much needed awareness uh in uh eliminating uh domestic violence. Um, agism awareness day was this past October 9th and uh, our department of senior services does a tremendous job in
promoting not just promoting events but there was a collaboration between older adults and students from Roosevelt Middle School. And I think this is one of the most underestimated things that they do is they just don't have events for senior services. They actually uh, have programs that bridge
the gap between the old and the young. uh and each group learns from one another. Uh the uh younger group hopefully learns the wisdom of the older ones and the older ones hopefully uh learn the energy and what it's like to be young again. And and so they had this
uh um this this this huge poster where they put their handprints on it and put uh remarks on there and that is uh currently on display outside of council chambers here if anyone uh wants to see that. Uh so uh congratulations uh for another successful event. But these
events are held uh uh periodically. Uh if you saw town hall last night, you may have seen it decorated in um purple and pink. And uh although pink represents breast cancer awareness month, it was spec specifically for the
purpose of National Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day, which is each October 15th. This uh was uh recognized by Ronald Reagan I believe in 1988. Uh and it's uh it's very emotional time uh for for many families who have
experienced a loss uh such as this. So that's why town hall was decorated. Um computer electronics, Mr. Plesi will talk about this. So I'll I'll skip through this and I'll and I'll save that for him. Uh he's here in council chambers tonight and will be up shortly.
Um, we also had a um uh last week there was uh police promotions and a fire swearing in and uh there was uh several that made sergeant and several that made lieutenant. And I'm not going to go through the names. It's on our website. It's on our social media, but I do want
to bring uh recognition to one particular individual. And I'm talking about Herby who is standing next to me here. Uh he is now sergeant and um uh I'm I'm going to address him in his
native tongue for a moment if I may. Uh, >> I just asked Herby if I could borrow the police car this weekend and reminded him that my birthday is in September. Uh, so that's it, Council President. I have nothing else to add at this point. I'd like to introduce my colleague who
absolutely actually needs no introduction. Mr. Plesi Joe is always a hard act to follow. Anthony Paglesi, public information director for Essex County, representing County Executive Jod Vincenzo. I'm just going to go through a list of some upcoming events uh beginning with this
Saturday uh which Joe brought up which was the household hazardous waste collection day. That's 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. at our public works site in Cedar Grove. Uh basically, if anything runs on electricity and you want to get rid of it, you can bring it to that event. >> Uh and uh also on the 18th is our first
uh um strut your mut K9 dog parade which is in Branch Park. That's at 10:00 a.m. Uh then the following weekend on October 25th, we have two event two dog parades. uh one in Brookdale Park in in Bloomfield Montlair and that's at uh
9:00 am and then the second one is in Grover Cleveland Park in Codwell Essex Fels that starts at 100 p.m. Uh if you're missing all this it's all on the county website which is essex countyj.org. Um on November 1st and uh 2nd is our
Riker Hill Art uh Riker Hill Art Park artists open house. Uh that's uh both days. Uh you'll be able to see artists working in their studios. Uh they'll have uh items for sale as well. Um and then u just around the corner, it'll be
here before you know it, just before Thanksgiving, we're going to start uh our Holiday Light Spectacular at Turtleback Zoo. Uh begins the weekend before Thanksgiving. And I'll have more information at the next meeting. And I just forgot, let's skip back a little
bit to Halloween. Um, on October 31st from 4:00 to 8 at Turtleback Zoo is our safe Halloween event. Uh, if you don't want to take your kids trick-or-treating throughout the streets, I know West Orange is very safe. Uh, but if you want to uh do your trick trick-or-treating in
a contained environment, uh, 4 to 8:00 p.m. at Turtleback Zoo, um, $3 admission if you are a zoological Society member, and $5 admission if you're not. Um, plenty of candy on hand. Um, hopefully no dentists will show up. Uh, but I'm
sure they'll be passing out their dental cards on the way up. Uh, any questions? You know where to find me. Thanks. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, Mr. Gleasy. Okay. Where were we? Oh, yes. I'm going to uh I usually
we're going to You raise your hand if you want to speak. I'll point to you. Make sure we get two or three going. And once you're recognized in order, you can come to the uh uh podium here and try to keep your mouth as close to the
microphone as possible so that everyone can can hear you. Uh just want to let you know that uh under our ordinance, it requires the speaker to first state
their name and address. You then have five minutes and there are some uh restrictions on what you can and cannot say. Uh the conduct of public comment speakers
are required uh to shall at no quote shall at no time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule. Quote, "Any person who shall disturb the peace of the township council, make
offensive or abusive remarks, or conduct himself or herself in a boisterous manner while addressing the council shall forthwith be barred by the presiding officer from further audience before the council, except that if the speaker shall submit to proper order
under these rules, permission for him or her to continue may be granted by, excuse me, a majority vote of the council." Uh I'm a big first amendment and uh constitution guy. So I want everyone to have a chance to seek red address from their government and
basically talk about whatever you want. I'm also a big fan of civility and I think the lack of civility and manners contributes uh to our politically uh our political conflict and inability to reach a middle ground. Council is a place to discuss our differences and
often to find compromise to make West Orange an even better place to live. So I urge all of us to treat everyone as they would like to be treated. You can certainly make your point without cursing or insulting anyone. And I and the good sergeant will enforce this
ordinance. So who would like to speak? I see one hand up there. You're number one. Let's see. I see another hand in a What is that? Like a maroon sweater. Are you wearing with glasses? No, you're looking back. I'm looking at you. Is that a
maroon sweater you're wearing? Okay. Sorry. So, please come up. >> Oh, you're a tusome. Okay. So, just stay there. Wait, just just stay there until they're finished and then I'll recognize you and uh we'll we'll we'll move on.
Thank you. >> Good evening, everyone. >> Name and address, please. >> Hon. >> Thank you. >> Gaston Street, West Orange. It is my honor to introduce to you a lifelong West Hams resident who has been in
business here for 50 years or more. Uh and uh recently actually let me go back. He has taken care of my family's cars for that long and uh he's an expert in auto mechanics.
But the reason we're here tonight is because of the issue of flooding in the valley area, Lafayette Street, Joyce Street, Dean Street, that general area. Bob is going to give you the history of
his attempts to get justice. And all of a sudden, things changed as of yesterday when Joyce Ruden, Councilwoman, came to visit Bob and I. and um took pictures and was in touch
with the mil of the town and uh I will let you know what happened as a result because it just broke about 4:30 5:00. So I introduce Bob Ror. Hello everybody. My name is Bob Ror. I live 15 Long Street in West Orange. Uh a
lot of you people don't know me but you don't like me either because I've written to the council. I've written nice letters and I've written nasty letters and only two people have gotten back to me on my request. One of the letters said, "If you're interested in
helping, please call me." I got two calls. I said, "If you're not interested in helping me, please write." Nobody wrote. So, here I'm out there on a limb. I'm in the valley. My my my business is in Orange and West Orange is across the
street and we've had massive floods down there and I've been spitting in the wind. Joyce made something happened and they're starting to clean the brook, but it's got to be a combined efforts between Orange and West Orange and all the towns to clean it from the Melee
estate to the Rawway River wherever it's going. But at least it's a start and thank God for her. Okay, I'm done. Thank you. I said enough microphone. Okay, I'm done. Okay. Uh
late this afternoon, I received a call from someone who rents part of Bob's business now, Fernando Castillo, uh another excellent auto mechanic, by the way. Uh and he said, "Bob, uh you won't believe it, but he sent me two
photos. uh one photo and you you will be able to see this uh but it's because it's not well >> wow >> copied but evidently this afternoon
this showed up a caterpillar excavator I guess whatever it is and a dump truck and he said they cleaned almost the entire section where Joyce
took enormous number of pictures yesterday and it was practically cleaned out today. But Bob's been told for 40 years it's we have to go through the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. We have to get permits from the but
nobody would go to Orange and say let's collaborate and get this cleaned up for the people who live there. So this afternoon, despite management telling Miss Ruden that they would have to get all kinds of permits,
this truck shows up and cleans half of the and and Fernando said it took one man an hour and a half to do it. So then after we visited with Bob Joyce and I went to the Kingsley Street Whittingham
Place uh area and what we found there was another tragedy as far as we're concerned. The first thing was we crossed, we parked on Whittingham. And if you know 280 overpass there from the end of the
280 overpass to the next first house on Whittingham going west, there is a lot there that is just full of garbage and full of whatever. Now we I don't we don't know who owns it, but it certainly didn't look like it was
state property at that point. So then we w across the street and went to Kingsley Street and saw the creek on Kingsley Street and a very nice couple, we rang their doorbell and we asked them if you could give it they could give us some information about what they know about
it and they said there used to be a man who lived next door to them across the creek and uh time is up. >> Mr. Hosen, please complete your discussion as quickly as possible, please.
They said uh that there was a man who either worked for the town or the county or the state who used to clean it up every two or three weeks, but he died. And I guess it hasn't been clean since or whatever. So, they were very helpful.
But it proves that when you go to government and government listens and good things happen. So, I appreciate that. Thank you, Bob Ror, and thank you, Councilwoman Ruden. Thank you. >> That was my big debut.
>> Good job. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? We've got a second speaker. Please come up. I see a hand. The person is sitting right next to him and then uh the woman in the yellow sweater after him. After her. Sound good? Please go ahead. Name and address.
>> My name is Ezra McClendon. I live in uh 52 Quimby Place in West Orange. Um, I want to thank the council for the opportunity to speak to you today. Um, I represent uh an area below Rollinsson in
the valley and I'm sure that this council has heard some complaints about the parking situations as well as Satan Hall Prep and some of the other residents that live within our community.
My concern is not just on parking, but it's a quality of life issue for us, right? I've lived in Essis County for over 50 years, grew up in Montlair, lived in West Orange for over 20 years, have been a very staunch advocate for
the township, and my concern is it just appears that we don't get the same equity within the valley that some of the other areas within West Orange get. on my street every day. I have to fight
with students parking over congested streets. No way for us to be able to police it. It's not the when when we call the police, sometimes they come, some sometimes they don't. There's a number of issues that are present within the valley.
I'm just going to quickly go through it. Over parking. I believe in in on Quinby Place and areas below Rollinsson, we need to have permit parking. >> This is something that I'm sure has been advocated before, but for whatever reason, we haven't had an opportunity to see that to fruition. We also need to
have regulation of enforcement for residential driveway access. I can show you a picture on my phone where I had to call the police this week for a student from Satan Hall Prep that was parked halfway in my driveway. Right. I have two other children that live in my
house. They're both aged to be able to drive. They have to go around that car, face the traffic that comes down that street and potentially get into an accident. Now, we get into that accident, we can't go before the council and say, "Somebody hit my car." There's
no recourse because someone else parked illegally in front of our property. There needs to be ordinances for that as well. The senior hall prep people need to be able to use their parking deck. >> Yes. >> Right. there is a fullscale parking deck available for them to be able to use. They need to shuttle that we need to
have permits and we need to be able to police that within our communities. Um we also need to have the enforcement of traffic violations. My my neighbor here was just telling me about the multiple tickets that she's gotten just for
parking in front of her own house. But when I have people that are parking within my community on my streets, they don't get ticketed. I can call the police. Sometimes they show up, sometimes they don't. We need to have some level of enforcement within the communities as well. Um, the other thing
is one-way streets. I've heard that there's some type of survey or some type of uh >> study >> study that's been done that's in favor of one-way streets within the valley. I' I've never received that um communication. I haven't been a part of
that study. I live in the valley and a lot of times what happens is people take surveys or information but they don't live in an area where they're going to try to implement these things. So it really becomes a crushing incident for the people that live in
that environment because they didn't have a chance to speak out in favor or to give an alternative to what should be happening within the community. So, I request for us to be able to meet with the company that is making these surveys so that they can get an equitable uh
solution to the problem that they may be proposing within our community. I I say this to the board and I'm glad that the mayor is here as well because I've I've suffered through this for quite a while and I want to thank my two council people here as well for them reaching out to me from an email that I sent out.
They've been very vocal and support of this as well. But this has been a long time coming, right? And in the same way that we have great communities throughout West Orange, it just seems like the valley becomes the stepchild of West Orange and we really need to do
something about that, right? So, I'm imploring that this is not just me coming up and speaking and we people hear me and then we just go about our day from this point on. I would love to see a concerted effort to really get into the VAT to look at some of the issues that we have over there and at
bare minimum address some of the concerns that I have right now. That would be a great start to show that there is concern for people that live in that area just for me to come up here for five minutes and just talk. All right. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak in front of you and I hope that we will be able to get some
responses from that. Thank you. Peace. Joy Bernette 63 Pilot Place Stor New Jersey seems to be a running theme tonight for a lack of care and concern and representation for the valley. I
have been in contact with every member of this council. I have been standing here for years since the mayor was on council, since Mr. Croviaak was on council before. My first uh first time I Rich reached out on this was on May of
2009 when I could not have parking in front I could not leave my home, drop my child off from school to school and have a place to park when I returned home. Since then, the parking in front of my house has been taken away two spots because of no parking within 50 feet of
a stop sign. I also have an issue of there is nowhere to park. The town has set us up to be ticketed frequently. Ticket. Ticket. Ticket. Six tickets. Six more. Six more. Six more. Six more. I
started here talking to again about this back in 2023. These are tickets from 2024 and 2025. Over $1,100 in tickets. Yes. $1,100 in tickets at my house across the street
from me. I am on the corner. I can't park in front of my house. If I don't get up at 7:00 in the morning, I have two children that work overnight. So, they try they park where they can when they come in. And then the seat and hall kids are sitting out parking in front in
front of our houses waiting for residents to leave so they can take the spots. I get up every Thursday morning and sit in my daughter's car and try to get a spot because there's no parking on Rollison from 8:00 to 10:00. Glenn, which is right across from my house, I
can park on the street there overnight. But during the day, there is no parking on the left side of the street because it is permit parked. There is no parking on the right side of the street because you, the wonderful folks on the council, have set up ordinances that say there's
no parking on school days from 8 to 4. Well, wonderfully enough, I'm a teacher in town and I said, "Wow, on Rashana, which would be a Thursday, there's no parking on Rollison from 8:00 to 10:00 and I had wrote you all about this." But none of you responded except for Joyce
Ruden and Sus Scarpa. I was so upset that the mayor did not even reach out to me, not just as a resident, but I am also a teacher and a a public servant in this town. And no one cared enough to even contact me and find out like how can I help you? So across the street
from my home, I said, "You know what? I can't park on Raleigh from 8 to 10 because they're going to clean the street. The Seatvall kids will beat me there in the morning. I cannot park on Pot. So I will park on Glenn because there is a sign that says no parking between 8 and 4 on school days." Well, I
know there is no school on Raj Rashana because I have off. However, I park there. I come out at 10 o'clock and I have a ticket. I reach out to Chief Abbott and I am told that Joy, you can't park there. I know that you have no school today and you work in West
Orange, but that park that is based on seat and hall parking, Joy. So, you are not allowed to park there because the public parking ordinance is there for the seat and hall schedule which you have as a resident no access to.
Yeah. Makes no sense. So, no one thought that they should contact me except for Joyce Ruden and Sus Scarper who seem to be the only representatives that seem to care about the folks in the valley. It is unfair. There is It is inequitable over $1,100 of tickets. I have a child
in college. This would have paid for a third of her housing this year. But I was given I was sent these threatening notices that my license was going to be suspended because of my daughter's parking tickets and my parking tickets that I had to pay this summer over
$1,100 in parking tickets. And I come here and come here. I've been coming here since 2009. And all I get is, "Oh, I think Michelle, you say, "Oh, this is really a problem." But no one has done anything. And then to find out that, you
know, now there's this study that says we should have one-way parking, but no one has spoken to us. This was proposed, I have I found the email today proposed back in uh May May of 2014. But what they did was they had meetings at Hazel
to actually talk to us about what we wanted to do if we wanted permit, if we wanted one-way parking. But there has been I heard there was some you know un not well publicized meeting a few weeks ago that many of us did not know about. I just want to us to be included in
what's happening and I want you Mayor McCartney to help me. This is not okay. This is not fair. I pay taxes like everybody else but I have a parking tax because you value the residents above Rollinsson more than you all value the
residents who are on the ABC streets. You do not value us. This man has talked about the issues at his business. We are struggling with this since 2009. I've lived in this town for over 20 years and this is obscene that my family has to
endure parking tickets that I have to act like I am in the Bronx somewhere looking for parking every day. But seat and hall children, by the way, park in front of my house every day. And some days I say to them, hey, you know, there's no parking there. And you know, that's okay. the police will not ticket
me. So, Mayor McCartney, I would really love for you to actually help me and the rest of the valley. >> Thank you, Miss Bernett. Is there anyone else who wants to speak? Mr. Roar, could I please advise you that
we do not allow people to be screaming out from the audience? Okay. If you want to talk or or or scream, please go outside. >> Please come up. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? I can see a hand in the front. Please, you're next after her. And then there's a hand here up
behind her with a light blue sweater or shirt. >> Okay, >> thank you. Please go ahead. >> Okay. Susan Lanche, Eagle Rock Avenue. I am following up on the feasibility study conducted by Dynamic Traffic and presented to the council administration
in April of this year. Dynamic created comprehensive and detailed study covering the entire township. The report's recommendations, if implemented, in many ways, would effectively address traffic flow and parking challenges experienced in many
neighborhoods throughout West Orange. At a town council meeting a few months ago, some citizens spoke in favor of Dynamics recommendations regarding the Park Drive loop and vicinity. Council members appear to agree with the
citizens. If this is so, thank you. However, it appears that the administration does not agree. In August, some members of the administration met to discuss dynamics recommendations for permit parking on the Park Drive loop and overnight
parking on Ashwood Terrace. Not invited to the meeting and conspicuously absent were those who are most affected by the parking challenges in the area, the residents. The memo that followed the meeting essentially dismissed Dynamics's
recommendations. The administration noted that there is no quote unquote fair method to implement them. The words fair or fairly were used three times in this short memo. My questions are these. What is
the administration's definition of fair? Could the administration provide specifics on why permits would not be fair and why overnight parking on Ashwood would not be fair? For whom would these be unfair? Is it fair that
the taxpaying residents of the homes with no driveways have no place to park their cars? The administration appears to be washing its hands of a situation that in fact it helped to create. There are a number of one-f family homes on the loop that have
been converted to two family homes. This is likely true in other areas of the town as well. No additions were made to the homes. Simply an attic or a basement was converted into an apartment. Were those homes legally allowed to do that?
Presumably, the township approved those conversions without requiring that parking be provided for the tenants. Essentially, the township actually contributed to creating the parking challenges. Therefore, it seems logical, and to use
the administration's word, fair, that the township might take some responsibility toward alleviating those challenges. The administration keeps stressing the Bethany Church lot as the answer to the parking issues in the area, but it fails to acknowledge the limitations that have
been pointed out multiple times by the citizens. The hours it is available are restricted, particularly on weekends, and they don't always coincide with the needs of those who work different shifts. As noted earlier, Dynamic produced an
excellent report with excellent recommendations. Will the township simply dump it in a file cabinet never to be reviewed again? Or they implement those recommendations? Dynamic has the expertise to help carry this out. This is what they do. When
politicians run for office, they often say that they want to serve the needs of the community. Parking is a serious need in many areas of West Orange. Of the administration and the council, I ask this that you please follow through
by serving the citizens in the areas most in need. Develop a strategy for carrying out dynamics recommendations while listening to feedback from the residents phased in over time. Thank you. Thank you.
>> Is there anyone else who would like to be speaking at public comment? Please raise your hand. >> Okay. >> Feel more comfortable sitting down. I can give you a handle. >> Let's just hold on till >> Hello. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, um, thank you for allowing
me to speak. My name is Nina Boyin Jr. and I live um at 53 Rollinsson Street. And some of my neighbors may also not appreciate what I do have to say about parking on Rollington Street. So, first
um I thank the council for listening to me and putting the stop signs at least by going down Rollinsson Street because this is a nightmare. An absolute nightmare. We live between a elementary school and a high school. People come
down Rollinson Street flying down and it's very dangerous to us that live there. My husband was hit by a car. >> A car totaled a um Nissan Ultima totaled my hus my husband's sequoia. He had to
have spine surgery and was out of work for two years. Okay. So what happens on Rolling Street and for those folks that don't have a house that live on the hill when you are riding down that hill there are people
that send their little children early in the morning to go to school and they walk there. You're coming down the hill you cannot see the children. I had a year pri last year I was trying to get out of my home to go to my
doctor's appointment rushing late because I'm trying to get one of the seat hall prep students not to park right in front of my house where I couldn't get out the driveway. I had to call a Uber to take me to the hospital where I had heart surgery.
>> Okay, so this is very very important to us. No, Robinson Street is not made to be a two-way street. People come flying down there, someone will die. My husband almost died and I almost died because of the the
kids. I went a couple of times to see Hall Prep and I said, "We need Where's the permits? You have parking. The the kids don't want to park where they're supposed to be." That's unfortunate for us residents that could p possibly I would not be able to live with myself if I have to if I
mistakenly run over somebody because I can't see them because my ground they're lower than the ground because of the way the the structure is. Yes. Permit parking for the residents. We pay taxes. I've been here in this town for 26
years. We pay our taxes. We love our community and we want to be checked not not fairly because life isn't fair equitably because we do pay to live here and we do want we love our neighbors and we want all of our neighbors and their children to be safe. Yes, they're re um as you
said, they're restructuring um a lot of these apartment builders. More people, more problems. >> And that's what we're going to do by not have enforcing the laws and letting the ch letting the residents have permanent permanent parking
where they live and pay taxes. >> And um you know, I'm sorry or I could have made a decision another time. is it? Think about what happened with Nikill's mom. >> I'm an Eagle Scout mom. I remember my
son used to teach um him uh to how to do things in the Boy Scouts for if one if I'm up here like my my daughter told you today when we came in. If I'm up here telling you and sharing my stories, how many people are silent with the same stories?
this and they they don't seem to the other day a couple of days ago they park it in front of my house the seat the seat students throw the garbage outside and I said excuse me we live here I will pick up the garbage and follow you to
your house and drive and throw the garbage on the floor. No, they don't take priority over us residents as dedicated residents that love where we live. So please consider that when you're making your decision. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Miss Bon. Is there anyone
else who'd like to speak? I saw the red red shirt. You can come next. And then uh I saw another hand over here right after. Yes. Sorry, green shirt, red shirt. There's somebody else that raises a hand and uh blue
shirt. Thank you. Please go ahead. >> Good evening, West Orange members of the town council. My name is Jennifer Aorio and many um as many of you know I'm running I'm a candidate. >> Your address please address. >> Oh I'm sorry. 12 Belleview Terrace. >> Thank you. >> I'm running for town council on the up
upcoming election of November 4th. Um I've been doing a little bit of canvasing and I uh have spoke with some of the small businesses. Um I'm here tonight to speak on behalf of one of our local small businesses, Dogwood Dispensary, which has been proudly serving our community since March 1st,
2025. And speaking with both business owners and members of the community, I've learned that Dogwood has been has had a significant obstacle that impacts both their operations and their customers at Dogwood, particularly provides critical
products to to many residents and disabil uh with disabilities who rely on the services for medicinal use. Unfortunately, their current accessibility situation is deeply concerning. Many of these patrons of their of their business are wheelchair
bound or have mobility limitations and they're forced to enter the building through a back employee entrance. This means passing through storage and employee break areas to access the public public space. This arrangement not only fails to meet with the requirements of the American uh
disability act, but it also raises serious safety concerns. In the event of an emergency, these customers have only one narrow nonADA comp compliant entrance and exit, making it difficult to evacuate quickly and safely. It's worth noting that the uh the
building was originally a bank, and it includes a a pickup window, which would provide a safer, more dignified, and accessible way for customers, particularly those with mobility ch uh challenges, to obtain their products. Dogwood has been advocating for an
amendment to the dog uh to a current ordinance that would allow them to utilize this existing pickup window. This is a common sense solution that would make their businesses more accessible, safer, and while also supporting the needs of some of our most vulnerable residents. I strongly urge
the council to give this issue a serious consideration with the work with dog with the dogwood dispensary to make it ADA compliance and accessibility a priority. Supporting local businesses should also mean supporting their customers, especially those with disabilities who
deserve equal access, safe and safety, and respect. >> Thank you. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Uh Rachel Klein, how will drive, I'm here to talk about two totally different things. Um, the first one, I know that a res a solution has been found, but I
wanted to talk about that knitting club, the Woollies. I know it's it was an ongoing saga for a while. Um, I wasn't able to get here to say that I'm disgusted that it ever got to that point. I don't understand why the
community room in a building that shares the library was controlled by the director of the library. It to me even if someone in that group had had done something horrendous in the library
collective punishment of the group that was just encouraable. They are a mixed group of women in you know later in life. Some of them are ill. this is what gets them out, you know, um once a week and you meeting the
Whole Foods, you know, because you they were closed off by the library director whose salary they pay with their taxes. That never should have happened. I hope that maybe we can find a way to give the seniors a senior center so that they can
control their own destiny and places to meet. But until then, the community room should be open to them. And I hope that it is open to them. and I hope they turn around and say no thank you and because we now have a senior center. Um the other issue is uh fair share housing my
uh my pet project. I am disappointed. It's not the council's fault. I know that. But we are open to builder lawsuits and they're just coming down the pike one after another. It's like if someone owns an acre or two, they just want to put a couple hundred units on it
because now they can using the cudgel of fair share housing, a couple units of it. They can build whatever they want. These are rentals to come out and say, "I don't you're not in favor of fair share housing. You sound like you're not in favor of those who need
it." That's not what I'm saying. I believe in fair share housing. I don't believe in doing it this way. Through builder remedy lawsuits, you are forcing a town to set aside its zoning ordinances, its environmental protections to build, you know, these
monstrosities that also don't help people get out of poverty because these are rentals. The best way to give people a leg up in the world is to give them an asset to pass on to their children. They can't do that with rentals. Developers make money in perpetuity
while towns are destroyed. So, if there's anything that comes before you that you can say no to, as we learned in the past, often times developers don't seem to be very forthcoming or honest. Let's make sure we dig, really make sure we know what they're doing, what their
plan is before we even consider saying yes to them. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Blue Sherp. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak in public comment tonight? See a hand way in the back on the left. >> So you're after Mr. Blue shirt. Mr.
Venulo. Mr. Venulo. >> Mr. Benulo, you're wearing a blue shirt. >> Don't do so well. >> I don't see you so well. So that's the chaos. >> Uh, good evening. My name is Joseph Panulo. Uh, I live in the 200 foot notice area of the West Sussex Highlands
project. I am the president of WEC Care, the objector at the planning board. A few quick uh items. The 21st meeting at the planning board in the application for West Essex Highlands is October 22nd. There will be
another meeting October 29th. There have been no meeting minutes published since June 30th. There have been six meetings in the last nine weeks. Uh we need we need if not minutes transcripts. I know there are no minutes
for whatever discretionary reasons of the chair but the developer is producing transcripts at whatever pace. If the township wants to rely on the developer to produce transcripts, they should produce them on a timely basis. We will be at least 25 meetings that will go on
until it looks like at this point next year. I don't know when this comes to an end. That said, and I have a copy if anybody wants to print out from your website. Thank you for improving access to information. The November 5th meeting of the planning board will be to present the fourth
round uh housing element fair share plan. If I heard correctly and I don't hear so good. I think I heard that that will be by Zoom only. No comment. If is that a true statement? Did I hear that? >> Yes. >> Yes. If that's a true statement, then why don't you just make a videotape and play it to the people because they can't
make a comment. It doesn't make a difference. And the sooner you get rid of the builder's revenue liability here in town, the better. Nobody wants to hear about it. So be it. I don't understand why. That said, hire Grul, Susan Grul specifically is, sorry, I'm
trying to see that clock. >> Hire Gr is the fourth round housing element fair share plan planner. We have provided to your planner for the fourth round two tranches of information that support what I have explained here
multiple times before that this site was not did not meet eligibility criteria under affordable housing. >> It was not available, approvable, developable or suitable. That was true in 2015. It was true in 2020 and it is true today. The difference is no one got
noticed or knew anything about this during Zoom or during COVID in 2020. So we have taken every opportunity and we will take yet another one before November 5th to make sure that your planner for a fourth round knows in fact
why this site does not meet criteria now and didn't then. And it's included at the moment in from the third round to carry on in the fourth. There is absolutely no way this project gets built. there's 100 affordable units there. I know people think that's a crazy statement, but they thought it was
more crazy two years ago. That's not going to happen. So that said, now your planner fourth round is now the planner at the planning board on this application. How that planner denies what now has been disclosed in fact at the planning board by selective denial,
I have no idea. But when this plan is finally adopted and approved, you can count on we care if the Highlandism is included in that plan fourth round. You can count on we care objecting through the other course of action parallel path
to the plan. Last point at the last meeting and it's somewhat related. Our youngest member in weare is a young girl who I've been working with now for the past two and a half years and she's been very active. At the last meeting, I came
to find out that this girl was assaulted in the West Orange High School. She has not attended school all year. There was a police report filed. I have copies of audio recordings legally obtained. This is a one party state that
people don't know were recorded and other documentation that show that this school superintendent and people that should have a duty to care in local parent is a is a guideline is a rule is inviolate. This child was choked in this
township. She is no longer in the school. She has not attended school this year. She today started her first day at Mount St. Dominic Academy. We care, which stands for West Essex citizens against reasoning excess. In this case,
care was exercised in the infinitive form to care. We care. This young lady is a 4.3 student. This never should have happened. It's been ignored. Now that she's safe and out because she would not go to school here because she wasn't safe and her mother wouldn't let her go
and she lost her father last year. I don't understand the behavior. I don't get it, but the superintendent of schools and whoever else needs to be is going to get a call from us before they get a call from council and I'd like to talk to anybody about that. Time is up
and thank you. >> But just unconscionable behavior and we care. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. N. >> Is there anyone else who'd like to speak tonight at public comment? Please raise your hand.
Okay, now I see hand. You're next. And then is is that a sideways hand in the way back? Okay, you're after uh the woman in the brown. Is everybody else accounted for? And then you, Miss Bennett, please go ahead.
Just start with your name and and address, please. >> Uh James Jackson, one Ashley Road, West Orange, New Jersey. Uh again, my name is James Jackson. I'm the CEO and founder of Urana LLC. Uh I'm here this evening on behalf of my company um and our dedicated team who are all proud West
Orange residents. Uh as the renewal um of our local license to operate cannabis cultivation businesses on tonight's agenda, I want to express how committed that we are to bringing this project to life. How committed we've been um not just from a capital standpoint. Um, our
team has been working steadily towards operation um with the goal of providing safe, highquality products to our dispensaries here uh in West Orange. Um, we sincerely appreciate the town's continued support um in this first of its kind project in our community. Um,
and we are pro we are proud to represent local entrepreneurship, innovation, um, and compliance in this growing industry. Um, and again, I'm happy to make myself available um, as a resource for cannabis and cannabis operations or any questions that the council uh, members may have. Um, and again, we really thank you for
uh, for the continued support. >> Thank you, Mr. Jackson. >> Thank you. >> Yes, please come up. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Andrea Goodman. I apologize for my lateness, but I had another meeting at uh MSU, so
I'm rushing in. >> I'm sorry. Can you repeat your last name? >> Goodman. Like good man. G O O D M A N. First A N D R E A. >> So I'm I know this is brief. I'm just going to read what I have on the paper to kind of make it. >> I'm sorry, Miss Goodman. Can you just
your address as well? >> 123 >> Roosevelt Avenue spelled like the president. R O O S E B L T. >> Thank you. Avenue. Uh, it's block 172.02, lot 18. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. So, I wrote this letter and I sent it out to the West Orange council members requesting to withhold the release of Performance Bond, uh, Arco Murray, National Holdings, Inc.,
the developer of Trojan Storage 955 Pleasant Valley Way, West Orange, New Jersey, block 172.02, block 8.01. I addressed this letter to Mr. Beyond,
and it says, I am a resident of 123 Roosevelt Avenue whose property directly borders a recently developed children's storage facility. I am writing to formally request that the township of West Orange not release or reduce the
performance bond for this project at this time. >> Miss Miss Kubin, I apologize for interrupting you. Could you please move closer to the microphone so that everybody can hear you? >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Since the construction began, my property has suffered significant
structure structural damage due to the steep slope and earth disturbance behind my home. These impacts include cracking and shifting of foundation and retaining walls, soil erosion and dead step destabilation of the backyard slope,
exposed pipes that are now above the ground, remaining tree roots above the ground, increased water runoff onto my property, influx of field rodents, and brown insect infestation requiring ongoing pest control. These conditions
were not present prior to the development and appear to be a direct result of the site grading and construction activities associated with the storage facility. I called Mr. Beyond's office to informed him of what
was occurring on July 18th of 2023. He told me that he would speak to the engineer. Prior to this, neighbors and myself attended virtual zoning board meetings sent in a full report stating the problems that could occur on
building on a steep slope. Our requests were ignored. The damage has been done. Given these ongoing issues, the potential safety and environmental hazards, I urge the township to retain the full performance bond until one, a
comprehensive engineering and environmental review is conducted, and two, all resulting damage and slope stability concerns are fully investigated and remediated. So
my understanding is that this has been going on since the pandemic and I attended the virtual sessions online during the pandemic. So I was not missing. I was in in in search
of trying to find out what could my neighbors and myself do to resolve the problem before this facility had began to get built. We sent letters to the zoning board with
documentation talking about the steep slope behind my home. We were not given satisfaction that there would not be a problem. Soon as the developers began to cut down the
multiple trees in the backyard from my home, we already began to lose a lot of the soil from the ground from the front of the home through the back of the home which m which is making the property shift. I'm now having foundation, no
cracks in my home. I don't have rodents normally in my home. I had to call a Viking inspection and having to put black traps outside my home and now inside my home because I'm getting feel rodents
in addition to brown bugs that I've never seen before. So, in addition to you walk outside in the backyard on the side of the home, you can clearly see how the white large uh PVC piping is on the outside of the ground. In addition
to where the the stair uh step is in the backyard, again, under the swing set is another exposed pipe clearly visible. You look on the right side of the property where the fencing is. I'm having someone now to repair the fence.
The steps are again cracking and crooked, which they're trying to repair. So, there's no way you can tell me that with all that, all the trees missing and the ground shifting that there's no property damage. >> Your time is up.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Goodman. We're going to be uh uh discussing this later on in the meeting. I appreciate that and I appreciate you responding to my email. >> Thank you. >> Is there anyone else who'd like I I I
know we've got the fellow with the half the ask please. Is there anyone else who wants to speak tonight? Please raise your hand. And after Miss Bennett. >> Uh council president, please be advised that our audio output on Zoom is excellent. So there's no issues with the
audio there. And close caption is working in council chambers here. Uh if anyone is having difficult hearing the uh speaker, it is uh visible on our screen here for close caption. >> Thank you. Please step up name and address and
take it away, please. >> Appreciate you. >> Uh Ryan Yust 51P lab please. Um I just want to reinforce a couple of complaints by some of my neighbors in the valley area. Uh specifically the alphabet
streets. Um the the seat and hall prep parking issue. Uh it's been an issue that my parents have dealt with. Um I've been we've been here for about 20 years now. Sorry. We've been here for about 20 years now. Um I
>> hear you. >> That's fine. Um I actually work in the district. Um it I try not to complain um because you know they're kids but they do have their own parking deck. You know what I mean? They do have their own specific place to
park. We don't have like you know there are times where we have to fight >> uh to find a parking on the street. Um it doesn't make sense to me. Um I just I like the idea of permit parking. I
think it is fair. Um because the streets above Rollinsson have public parking. Um I my parents should not have to be biting for parking on the street that they pay taxes, you know, in a town that
they pay they had they pay taxes for. Um >> so yeah, that's that's really where, you know, I don't need that much time. I just wanted to reiterate. >> Thank you. >> So I appreciate you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Please, Miss Bennett, is there anyone else who'd like to speak
tonight? Could you raise your hand? I'm not seeing anybody. >> Okay. >> Uh, good evening, Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. Um, I'd like to talk about I didn't bring up the agenda, so I don't know which item
number, but it's uh related to the budget uh being introduced or passed um and the amendment. So, I I also would just like to state that in the time that it took for Mayor McCartney to post on
social media, um, she could have answered some of the emails that people have sent to her. I know I have sent emails to the mayor that have gone unanswered. I heard multiple people in the audience discussing emails that they've sent to the mayor that have gone unanswered. But
yet, she has time to post two days ago. um very misleading misrepresentations. In fact, using um a link to an outlet that everyone knows
is um misleading as well. Okay. So, I'm just going to read into the record what I wrote um in response um and what I've shared with the council, but I just want to make sure that the public is aware as well. So, as
a citizens budget advisory board member, I know this post that you've posted is intentionally misleading in multiple ways. Number one, you submitted your proposed budget. So, um the mayor raised concerns about um the financial jeopardy
that the township would be in because the budget was late. and um also posted a letter um that was received stating that there would be fines if it was later than September 30th and being adopted. Um you submitted your proposed
budget to the council and the citizen budget advisory board extremely late. According to the New Jersey League of Multi League of Municipalities, it should be submitted in early January. You submitted on April 14th, 2025. Had you submitted a timely budget, it would
have been across the finish line long before September 30th. In fact, for this not to happen again for 2026, your department head should be submitting the requests already to the CFO. Make sure you submit a timely budget in 2026. If
your work on the budget for 2026 isn't completed by December, you will once again set the township up for a late budget and fines. Please do better. Number two, the budget that you did submit for 2025 was to increase taxes 6% and filled with unnecessary and inflated
line items. You caused the need for a dozen workshops by submitting a budget that was irresponsible. During those workshops, the council and SBA worked collaboratively to save the taxpayers from the effects of what your administration representatives called
extra cushion. Leaving aside how tonedeaf a budget increase is during a revaluation year, it's irresponsible for you to have submitted a budget that baked in millions in excess for the council and the citizen budget advisory board to find and eliminate. That's what
caused your inflated proposed That's what your inflated proposed budget caused. A delayed completion caused because the council needed to check your numbers and math. You submitted an irresponsible budget and 12 workshops got it cleaned up. The community can
rest assured that without cutting people or programs, the council and sebab reduce the 6% increase to less than 1%. Submit a responsible budget next time and then it won't take 12 workshops to fix it. No credible news outlet would
report this manufactured story. So you are pointing to a fake news outlet created for political purpose with the intention to influence this election. The author of the article you reference a fake name. The editor of the outlet fake as well. And despite being told
this on multiple occasions, you are continuing to rely on this fake news to suggest something that's misleading and unsupported. It is true the state issued the letter. But how many times when you were on council did you re receive something similar? Whatever is motivating you to post this ridiculous
spin, just do better. You caused the delay with a budget submitted late, filled with unnecessary proposed taxing of the people. And a word of advice, when no credible news outlet runs with your spin, it's likely because they're unwilling to defraud West Orange
residents. Dispatch isn't news. It's a feeble attempt to hide the truth. untangle yourself yourself from those fraudsters and find ways to be more responsible like submitting a carefully created timely balanced budget to the
council for 2026. That would be a good use of your time rather than wasting time with mis misleading posts like this. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Bennett. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak at public comment tonight? Please uh raise your hand.
Seeing none, I'm going to close public comment at 8:14 and uh ask for any response from any of our council members who are ready to respond.
>> You go first. >> We could we could let the mayor administrator. >> You want the mayor to go first? >> Yes, please go ahead. >> Thank you, council president. to couple most of the residents. I grew up on Hazel. So, please don't think that I am not paying attention to the valley area.
It is very important to me. The feasibility study, the dynamic traffic feasibility study was specifically for the valley area and Washington Heights uh area. So, and they did make recommendations. The presentation was presented to the council came out to be
$660,000. It was not approved at that time or presented to the council to be approved. So we had a workshop on September 29th. I know a resident talked about that. We did have a workshop. There were line of people that were here. It was from 4 to
8 and they could come to speak to the traffic engineers that prepared the feasibility study to speak specifically about their parking uh issues. I know we've had this conversation The
very next day I sent an email to our engineering department. The assistant engineer was here at the workshop the whole time um with the request that the parking permits for the Satan Hall students have been arbitrary and they shouldn't be arbitrary. I believe that
it should be for a radius of the area. They have three buses up on Prospect Avenue. They have a parking lot up there. We have met with the head headmaster numerous times that to stress that that's where the student should be. They continue and I know that
the comment is that it's a public street. I know it's difficult. The situation where the car is in the driveway, that's definitely a violation and that's a call to the police department. Uh I'm very sorry to hear about your tickets. The same thing happened to people on Colony Drive East
because they were asking for permit parking as well. And they did get a uh a signage change that said no parking between this is what happened to you. The same thing, the signage change from
8 to 10, but it didn't specify. So par people that lived there were getting tickets as well. So there were so many things that came out of that to prompt the engineering department my request to look at permit parking that would be
fair and equitable for the entire region uh along Rollinsson Street and Satan Hall Prep because to me they have been issued arbitrarily for a number of years. So we are definitely looking at
that um trying to address that. Um, I don't have any order here, but that was just on parking. I don't want you to think that we are neglecting to look at the valley because that's why the study was done in the first place. I don't see Rachel Klein here. I know she mentioned
the Woollies. I do serve on the library board trust board of trustees. The good majority of the Woollies, it's which is a knitting comp. Uh, the personnel, they came to the library board meeting last month. The personnel committee has met.
There were many reports that were submitted to the director which temporarily uh they lost the right to use the library at that time. The personnel committee met last night to try to resolve the issue for them and the library board meets again next
Thursday to try to uh resolve this issue. Um >> Mr. Ward. >> Sure. Yeah, >> that's that's it.
>> I'm glad. No, I'm just I'm happy that it it worked. We've have tried so many times. So, appreciate I'm glad it happened. >> I don't know what else most of it was about. Most of it was about parking.
>> So So, mayor, are you finished? I'm just I'm not you seem to be looking at your notes like you're going to say something again. So >> also about the affordable housing what's coming out and I know I I'm going to reiterate this is that the obligation the township has the township has always met its obligation to meet our fair
share housing numbers that came in. We were always obligated to do that. Just because we're issuing a plan does not mean we're trying to match our numbers from what the fair share housing has given us. Just because we issue the plan does not mean that those properties are
approved. They still have to go through the planning process even with the builder's re remedy. That does not mean they automatically get what they're requesting. We have a lot of work to do and the the parcels that are in the affordable housing plan are zoned
residential. So that's what we're looking at and it's our responsibility to look at the numbers and what's appropriate for the development there. It's not an automatic given. It's not an automatic approval. So, I just wanted to make that clear. >> Thank you, Councilman.
>> Thank you. Uh, Counciloman Ruden, I think you had your hand up first. Is that >> No, I didn't have my hand up, but I'm I'm happy to go. First of all, I really want to thank all the residents who came out to talk about parking. Um, I know that um people who live in the valley
often feel lesser than and that they're forgotten. and I just want to tell you that um I see you and I really want to help make the situation better. I don't know why we can't move on some of the
aspects that they have raised. I I outlined in to to the assistant VA 10 points of what this community has asked for and the response I got was that we have to wait until dynamic uh something
happens with dynamic traffic which I say is not necessary. This township has moved on permit parking for the residents who live above Rollinsson. And if they feel like lesser than, it's because they really are being treated
like lesser than because they do not have permit parking. And that is something that I urge this administration to move on quickly. And second of all, to bar all Satan Hall students from parking on their streets
because that is causing the major problem. We know who the students are. They have to have a sticker on their car that identifies them as Satan Hall and they should not be allowed to park on residential streets ever. And that is something that you your administration
can enforce and can work with the police to make sure that doesn't happen. When I hear residents say that they go outside their front door and tell tell Satan Hall students don't park here, you're going to get ticketed and they say we won't get ticketed and they don't get
ticketed. Something is broken. When I hear that there's no parking on um for school days, then we're generally talking about our school days, not private school days. So, you know, I
know a lot a lot of cars got ticketed on that day. So, I'm asking if you can help move this along in a faster way so that these residents up and down the VA Valley and across Main Street get permit parking quickly and that we don't have
to keep going on with this. I also understand that Mayor Paresi held a town hall at Hazel School where he went I don't know how he distributed this but doortodoor they all got um flyers that said we want to talk to you about
one-way parking. The entire Hazel Auditorium was filled to capacity and the residents spoke with one voice. they don't want one-way parking. And then this uh dynamic traffic engineering came back with the recommendation that there
be one-way parking virtually eliminating the voice of the people who who are affected by this. Um I have requested that there be another conversation between Dynamic and the residents and I was told that there's no contract with
with Dynamic so nothing is is going to be done. I really don't think that West Orange should be held hostage to whether or not we have a contract with dynamic traffic that we can move ahead with some of the easier things. For instance, some of these residents live on corners where
new stop signs went up and now the stop signs are being enforced to an umpteenth degree that you cannot park um closer than 50 ft. Now throughout town, everybody parks, you know, 9 ft away
from a stop sign. There is something that we can do as a municipality by changing our ordinances. And I would like to request that my council colleagues support this effort that we change this so that an ordinance is created so that parking can be 20 ft. I
know the state ordinance is 50 feet, but municipalities can move and make it less. Um and I would like I'd like to look into that. Um, also I do appreciate that even after the push back that I received
that nothing can be done and that we'll wait till until DT the dynamic traffic comes back that in fact a team's meeting was set up and I was invited to that with our professionals and I would really I don't know mayor if you're on that in on that team but I would really
like to recommend that a representative from the downtown be at that meeting because they know the situation and they can pick one amongst themselves. There are a lot of people here. See if somebody who is available to come and and be at our teams meeting on Monday.
We've talking about having it around 4. Maybe maybe we'll have it at 3:30 if you can get there earlier. So, um that's, you know, on on the parking. So, I hope that that um we can have a member of the community and I hope mayor you will
support that one member of the community be there to represent their needs on Monday. Um to Bob and Bob, thank you both for coming out. I know it's been a grueling effort for you, Mr. Ror, in terms of getting um response to the
flooding. And I saw the videos and the pictures and it's like waist high when the um East Rawway River overflows. It's terrible. So I wrote a letter about this and much to my surprise, I found out
just about an hour ago that it was done. So thank you to this administration for getting it done. Um the past is the past. Let's do things better moving forward. I also want to say that West Orange, this area of the valley is is bifrocated. So, one side of Joyce
Street, which is a lovely name for a street, is um is east is is orange. And I also appreciate that that um the administration responded to me and said yes, they will now work with Orange
because the air doesn't stop on borders and the water doesn't stop in borders and unless we deal with what's going on in Orange and work collaboratively, we're not going to solve the problem. So, I again I appreciate that we're going to do that and I'll you you can imagine that I'm going to follow up on
that and make sure that there is some collaboration and that this problem that you've had for 40 years um can be abated. I'm so happy that that the administration sent trucks out. I don't know how it happened. I'd really love to hear. Um, but I I'm just so happy that
it happened and and that was a a success. Um, to um uh Jennifer, well, she's no longer here, but to the the cannabis dispensaries, I support you. I want to help you be
successful businesses and um I'm with you on that. Um, Mr. Panula, I also >> if I could interrupt you just for a second, please. I'm I'm more than happy for you to say whatever you want about we Care. I just would like to suggest
that you keep in mind that we care has filed litigation against the township and just keep that in mind. Say whatever you think is important. Okay. Just want to remind >> I would just like I would just like to refer to one point that Mr. Pu Panula
made which is that the minutes are not up on the website. Mayor, I would like you to take a look at that again. Also, the video that is being posted is not the way we get a video on for the town council. It has to be downloaded in three different parts. It takes hours
and hours and hours to download. I would just request that you look at why is the formatting so difficult for the public. The purpose of having a a video, not audio only, was to make it easier for the public to be able to follow these um these meetings and they are very
important meetings. Um, and thank you also for helping with with the student. Um, and I I mean, obviously that's an issue that really needs to go before the board of ed, but I'm glad that the mayor was able to hear what what the situation is.
Um, um, Miss Miss Goodman, um, I support your request to have the the um bond withheld. Um because I I had I was at your house before the construction. I
spoke with you during the Zoom meetings and I've seen I've seen the problems after. I also went in back of the storage unit today and we'll talk more about that in terms of the obligations that they did not meet. Another reason why that I believe that that bond should
not be um returned. I know that our engineer sent pictures today of um uh of your property and I was a little concerned about that because I'm really not sure if they were given permission to be on your property. They were not.
And and to me that's a concern and not to be for our resident not to be on site to be able to to show people who are looking at private property for the first time what what the what the problem is. The recommendation from from
our engineer >> this is lovely Mr. Fagan. This is great. Is this the monastery? Come piping in. Anyway, I can talk over this. The >> No, let's let's get this fixed. Uh, please. >> It's going to help us solve these.
That's God's going to wrap it up. >> All these problems. I'm almost I'm almost done here. >> Dear God, please help these residents. This is really great. >> Scene hall. >> Yeah,
>> you did it. >> You got attention the guy upstairs. >> Can we get some order here, please? >> So, I I >> Hold on just a second, please. Mr. Fagan, did you determine what the problem was and have you fixed it? >> Uh, yes, Council President. I apologize.
Apparently, YouTube video kicked in uh uh beyond my control or perhaps it it's fine. Just want to uh let Councilman Ruden resume. >> Just want to point out it was nothing intentional. >> I'm almost done. Uh the report that we got back from our engineering company
that went and looked at your property without you being on site said that there was no problem. So I think that's a problem because you need to be there to be able to talk about that. And that's another reason why I would like to request that my council colleagues um
withhold this bond. Um U Michaela, Miss Bennett, um thank you for always bringing out such important issues. I truly would like an answer from the mayor why she continues to post what we all know in the community is fake news
and why you are promoting that and seeming to attempt to influence our upcoming election. There is no other reputable site that is posting the dispatch. The dispatch is operating without clear journalistic integrity
with fake names. Um, seemingly got access to a lot of our emails that we don't know how they got access to except that coincidentally all of the people who are getting it also were getting emergency alerts from this town. So, um,
I'd like to also know how that list was shared with the dispatch, and I'd like you to answer why the dispatch, why you are posting the dispatch, and do you think that is a reputable um news organization? >> Uh,
Councilwoman Ruden, you can ask the questions. The mayor can respond. If she doesn't, we need to move on. >> Fine. >> Okay. And I also just want to caution everyone to uh under Robert's rules of order that it is not a good practice to
question someone's motivations. All right? Talk about the facts. Talk about the facts. Talk about the facts. Don't question someone's motivations. It's not going to get us any progress. So, Councilwoman Ruden, asked the question. Mayor, if you want to respond,
you can. If not, >> as Miss Bennett said, I did post a letter. Uh, plus we did in fact receive that letter. It had no intention. I It was the fact that we received that letter. I wasn't there was there was no
deliberate reason to post it. The fact that we did receive that letter, it was an issue. Yeah. >> Okay. And if you want to follow up, maybe follow up in writing. >> Follow up after. Okay. Thank you so much for responding. >> Okay. >> I'll go next. >> Council SCR. >> Sure. I'll be happy to come next.
>> Okay. Um, >> yes. >> I I really want to say to all of you who came out, thank you who came out about the parking. I know from before I sat in this seat, I sat out there and I heard for decades. It's a shame that we've
listened to this for decades about the difficulties our residents have had with parking down in the valley. It's a matter of fundamental fairness to the taxpayers. it. I cannot believe that our
Satan Hall students have been parking in parking spaces that should be available to taxpaying residents. And it will does not cost uh will not cost the township anything to get started and to begin to
give permits for parking to the residents in the valley. Um I I I just remember uh Claire Sylvestri many many years ago talking about how this problem was solved in Boston in a college town
in Boston where they had college uh students who were impeding the ability of residents and they give parking permits. This is not something that cost a lot of money. This is not something that we have to wait for dynamic traffic and issue bonds for. This is something
that could be done right away to help our residents who have been suffering for decades. And I just feel like I want to read a couple of um pieces from residents that I've gotten because I don't think although you guys did a
great job, I don't think we really can understand the heartbreak of this that the residents have experienced. Um, one of our residents who's here today said, "During the years here, we've constantly had issues with parking, specifically Satan Hall prep students and multifamily
homes with cars and construction vehicles blocking our driveway. We have complained to the school as well as the police department. As recently as today, I had to call the police and had a vehicle blocking our driveway ticketed." There doesn't seem to be equal equity in
the valley area as some streets have single family homes have permit parking in front of their property streets above Rollinsson to Gregory and that really needs to be clear while others should have the same standards. Now it appears that the town council wants to institute
one-way streets on Quinnby and other streets streets which will increase parking even more. And even when we did this on Lington in the Gregory Avenue, half of the street was for it and the other half was not. So many residents are inconvenienced by these oneways and
I don't believe it's the answer to all of our problems. As resident of West Orange and Quinnby Place, I am against potential one-way streets and ask this committee to review parking regulations in and around Quinby. I understand the
desire to appease Satan Hall and may not be a and may not be aware of the illegal parking that goes on, but we as residents face hazards daily safely leaving and entering our property. I humbly ask that you consider my concerns
and publicly allow dialogue and discussion as to how to best serve the residents of this area. And I believe we need some focus groups and the people who are in the valley who are experiencing this should have an opportunity to speak with us and to the
mayor. Um, one another letter somebody uh talked about since 2017 I've paid thousands of dollars in parking tickets often in situations where I had no choice. I've had to park illegally just to drop off my sick child at home after
a hospital visit or to avoid walking blocks away in the snow or rain. If you only knew how depressing it is to live in a community where nothing is being done, where it truly feels that we don't
matter. And that is the way residents are feeling. I've heard it over and over again. and this can no longer, you know, go on deaf ears. We have got to figure out how to give some parking permits to some of these residents. I really feel strongly about that and I want to thank
you for all coming out. >> Um Rachel Klo, um West Orange Woollies, it's a shame that residents cannot use their own library given the amount of taxes that we pay. But there is a
solution to this problem. Our older adults advisory board has posed many many programs all of which will have no cost to the township because we can do them with volunteers. And we have asked that the cat center be open to the
seniors for a few hours at least a day, maybe between 11 and 2. There's a room that's empty. And the seniors are also sick of paying it an inordinate amount share of our taxes between the taxes and
the sewer bill and not even having a place where they can go and have lunch with a friend. It is not equitable. It is not. And you know, we really need to start thinking about thinking about this and really making sure that all of our
residents have the opportunities they need and that their tax dollars are not only spent wisely but in their best interests. Um, as far as for Rachel, as far as the housing, uh, Andrea Goodman, I'm so glad you were here because you
demonstrated to us tonight that zoning laws are put in place to protect the health and the well-being of residents. And it is really unconscionable that we are looking at all of these housing
schemes that will set aside zoning ordinances. We really need to do a better job and develop our main street as we've been trying to do for decades. We've proposed a number of opportunities to better develop that in areas where
we're not going to be cutting down trees on steep slopes and destroying neighborhoods. So, I hope that the mayor um has heard and that our zone our planning board and uh Susan Rule are listening to you tonight because we
really have seen what can happen when we don't protect our environment. >> Um Joe, thank you. Joe Panulo, thank you for coming out. Uh you're absolutely right. It's unconscionable that the meeting minutes are not published. Um,
it's unconscionable that this meeting, this planning board meeting is going to be Zoom only. I I really uh would urge the mayor to reconsider that um the public have more of an opportunity to talk about our affordable housing plan
as well. And James, we're always looking forward to you and uh look forward to supporting your business. And that's it. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. >> Sure. Thank you. Um, you know, thank you everyone for coming out.
I got to apologize to Miss Bernett, Mr. Burke, Mr. Clinton. Uh, I did not I don't recall getting your email. Sometimes it goes into spam. Uh, past couple weeks, I've been uh a lot of things going on my personal life that I
I don't always get back to everybody. There's also a few people that uh spoke tonight that I had in return. I owe them phone calls. But that being said, that doesn't mean that I'm not acting upon your issues because I'm in constant
contact with Mr. Smaraldo and even on occasion I'll reach out to the mayor. Uh I'm going to start with the valley. So with regards to the valley and joy, you're right. I've been saying over and
over and over again. And the police chief, I've talked to Chief Abbott multiple times about Satan Hall. I have no issue with permits parking uh on your street. Again, there's a process. So, if that moves forward, I'm supportive of
that. But when all is said and done, there's multiple problems in that area. Um I those problems are also mirrored in the other side of town where I live and I live down the hill as well and uh that's why I'm here. Many years ago I
felt my neighborhood was neglected and and fought to get things changed. So I admire all of you for coming out and and I feel your issues. You have stacking issues in your neighborhoods. That's the major problem. You know, last year when I was knocking on doors when it was my
reelection, you know, you have multiple mailboxes on the on the houses, multiples. You you know, some houses I saw six, seven mailboxes. It's totally insane. So, that's one issue. Uh, one, you have contractors bringing their um
vehicles home. They're parking in the driveways and then parking their personal vehicles out on the street. You have to call. Uh and again, this is complaints I made to zoning and and the the administration over and over and over again. Um
there are tonight we have on Fort ordinance uh four more handicapped spots and and for folks who are absolutely in need of handicap parking. We always want to accommodate folks, but I've been told
and seen it down on I believe it's Mitchell Street right around the corner last year when I went to an event at the Arts Council. I saw five in a row on Mitchell Street. I I I thought it was insane. How how coincidental could that be that there are five spots? And guess
what? In all five spots, I didn't see one car with a tag on it. In fact, I saw motorcycle there and I reported that. So, um, last Saturday when I saw you talking to my colleague, cuz I called her and asked her, so I knew you were
taken care of by her. Um, I had went to go talk to another resident. So, you know, we may not always get back, but we care and we try to do what we could do. And it gets very frustrating um when we can't get these things uh in
order. And and mayor administration, you know, we we we have to do better because we have to do better. Um one other one other note with that and and folks just, you know, attic apartments, basement apartments, if you know they're not legal here in the
township. You have to call, you know, you have to call if you know one of your neighbors have one of those situations cuz it is stacking and that's why these neighborhoods are overcrowded and the seat and hall kids are one thing but they leave after school. So these are problems at at night too that you know
yes I know they're there at the school at night but it's also >> please you cannot call out from the audience please. >> But we have to solve the problem. Yeah, they have they have the shuttle buses.
I I I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. So, I hope I I implore, you know, administration, you know, we got to get this fixed. As far as the oneways are concerned, and I know folks been against it for years because I've been on the council for a
long time, dynamic parking, um there we're going to pick up between the valley section and and down Washington Heights, we're looking at 300 parking spots from that plant. And I a little
disappointed that with the advertisement um because I've seen it. I've seen all over. But again, I'm in tune to it. Miss Brill and I from the downtown reps, we've been going to to the meetings. I appreciate the mayor uh for letting us uh attend and give our uh uh input
there. Um you know, there, you know, it's it's a rule with how wide the streets are. So, it's, you know, 28T versus 30 feet of who could get a oneway uh stop sign to the corner. You know, where I live, you you need the 50 feet because there's a
lot of places. I know you shake your head, but you're not a traffic expert. We I know you're the expert with a lot of things, Councilwoman, but you know, so I I come home tonight, I'll go home and there's going to be this big truck on Valley Way that's going to be sticking out from the stop sign and I'll
I'll call again. But I am getting reports of people getting tickets as well. I just don't think it's consistent across the board and that needs to that needs to be looked at. So, there's a lot of multiple issues that, you know, we
have to get the code enforcement uh out there. You know, it's a shame when um the Valley Civic Association, you know, these problems aren't new. They've been there for so many years and when the Valley Civic was very active, they were on top of it. And um you know I I you
know I I I encourage you to keep calling cuz that's the only way it it's going to get fixed. So thank you for coming tonight and you know we'll see what administration um will come back with. In regards to
let's see the other issues this evening uh the Woollies I I am in agreement with my colleague. I can't see why they can't be at the Toby Cat Center. I was very disappointed with with the library board mayor I'm going to tell you now because I I know you know there's you know
there's two sides to every story and I get that but I I mean just these are these are residents are some of our senior residents and you know I think everybody needs to play the fishing game sometime. So I'm glad James came this
morning because a lot of fishing should have went on. A lot of fishing could go on up at that library. So, with that being said, um I'm going to next. Let's see. So, yes, the H handicap parking spots and I I'll be asking Miss, you
know, our our engineer as well in regards to Mr. Burke's issue. Yes. And I I commend my colleague. She's got more time than I could ever ever give and and that's great. But, you know, Chuck didn't just show up there today because of a phone call. I mean, Miss C, you
know, the Mistress Moraldo, I know they've been working on it. Um, not fast enough. I'm glad the timing came where it did happen today that the truck came, but this goes back to for many years with Orange. I mean, they're not great neighbors. they need to do their part
and and the administration needs to keep pushing them because this is, you know, to have this ongoing problem and um you know, we need to get it taken care of. In regards to dogwood, um
so here here's the issue with that. I was on the cannabis task force when this first came to um to to be in the township and there's security a lot there's many security issues with these
with these um locations. It went through the planning board. I don't understand. They have to have a handicap door to get in. So, I don't I don't understand. I I understand why there's not a drive-thru because I wasn't supportive of of a drive-thru um
because of the nature of the of the business and the security. You know, you have to have a full security plan just to get deliveries and shipments. So to have a drive-thru, that's was we felt a security hazard. So I would never support that. Um,
but yeah, I don't know why there had to be handicap, you know, handicap accommodations made, I would think. So, I'm a little confused at this, but it is on pending matters for whatever reason. So, we could, you know, finish, you know, have that
conversation there. So, I don't hold up any more public comment. Um, Miss Goodman, um, we did miss each other today and, um, I appreciate you rescending your document to me because I couldn't open it. So, thank you for
that. And, uh, I'll let our engineer speak. When you sent that letter in July 2023, our engineer was not here. The prior engineer, uh, was was here. So, I don't know what happened at that time, but she could speak tonight when we uh,
talk about that. But I did um you know send an email to to um you know Mr. Smalda today and and the and the um council president that you know was looking to pull that to give him a heads
up. So yeah, we'll discuss it and we'll see. We want to make sure things are taken care of before we sign off. And I'll let her state her case. I did see the pictures this afternoon. Um, and we we could talk about that a little bit later.
And with all being said, I think I got everybody. Thank you again everybody for coming out. And oh, I made a note for Mr. Plesi. Um, always, you know, love that zoo. Was there again last Monday having this great weather
has been great uh when I watch my granddaughters. But um when the lights start um again I know last year you always make the commendation again just a reminder um with the warm days when we get inundated with a lot of traffic uh if they make
sure somebody's out there so the residents in that area don't get inundated with you know you know uh with the traffic trying to get home. But thank you everybody. >> Thank you Councilwoman. Uh,
I just want to start off my my response with a couple of questions to the mayor. If if you do know this, this discussion about uh equipment and personnel coming out to clear out some of the Brooks or waterways down in the valley. Was that
something that was that came from West Orange or was that something that came from Orange or do you know? I I don't know. But I do know that I have been asking for that to be cleaned up. That's I have so many handwritten letters from Mr. Bor. So that's why I'm saying I'm
happy that it did get done because he he meets with me and I have handwritten letters from him. So I was happy to hear that it got done. I truthfully I don't know. >> Okay. >> The reason I asked >> collaboration with Orange No, it's just
>> had to be a collaboration between West Orange and Orange. >> Yeah. I don't know that that's the case, but I think that's a fact that we should that we should uh establish because uh I've been working well I don't I don't
guess I was working with Mr. Ror for months and you point out the only way he communicates is with written notes to the clerk. I've given him my business card a couple of times. He just he won't call me. Uh and he doesn't answer the
phone at his place of business. There's no answering machine. There's no way to leave a message. It's it's very >> I sent him notes >> frustrating. So, I I congratulate our council people for able to uh continue to have communication with them and to
move it forward. But I would like to I would like to find out about whether that equipment and personnel was us or orange because I've been working for literally months to try to get these places cleaned out down there. And what I've been told repeatedly is that we
have looked at it, but because of uh D rules, it's going to cost us thousands of dollars to get the permission from the D to clean out those areas. And then and then I'm coming in and hearing that that this is something that was done today, you know, not really by the by
the uh seat of our pants, but that it happened without going through this whole process and spending all of this money. So, I want to establish what the facts are and what our policy is going forward because this just makes no sense to me that this
is the way to run uh a municipality. Um, I want to thank everybody who came in from uh the alphabet uh streets. Um, I recently went overseas for 10 days and I still have not been able to get my head
back above water. I apologized to everyone who reached out to me that I haven't uh that I haven't gotten back to. Um but as everybody has been saying, and we need to recognize it, parking has been a problem in this in this town for
decades and you heard a lot of the reasons, but we have to fix this problem. and uh my son graduated from Satan Hall prep and I've got other connections there,
but they do not get preference over the residents here in town. They're just that just shouldn't be. And part of the issue it sounds like is that we don't enforce our ordinances.
There just should be no way that you even ticket a car that is blocking someone's driveway. You tow that car and the word will get around. Believe me. So, it just shouldn't it it just shouldn't be this way. You guys
shouldn't have to come down here uh take time out of your evening to to come and tell us stories that literally have been told many times before. And I want to suggest to my colleagues that we as part of new business today we discuss
whether and how to imple to form an ordinance to implement permit parking below Rollinsson. I have no idea why it's not there. No, it's I'm not playing to the crowd. I'm just saying it it makes no sense to me that that this has
been going and uh I I was on the council for 10 years and people would come and complain and nothing would change. But the makeup of our council is now different and people are going to start taking action when they see situations
like this. So, uh I want to put that on the agenda. Yes. >> Okay. But things did change while we were on the council and that's what I mentioned before is that permits were given out arbitrarily. So I do I have this conversation with the police chief.
I we had made a recommendation about the radius and I will share that with you. If if it has to be an ordinance I think we should just do it. I don't think we need an ordinance to do that. >> Yeah. Well, we've we've had some discussion about ordinances and we're going to work collaboratively on everybody, but I think the problem is is
well established in one evening here >> and uh uh we can we can try to figure out the other question I have for you, mayor, is back when I was on the council the first time, we had parking enforcement officers, plural. >> We have two if anybody's looking for a
job. >> We have two openings and they've been open for years. But I think that's part of the solution as well. Uh particularly down in the >> We have two parking We do have two enforcement officers, but we do need two more. We have positions open for two more.
>> Oh, okay. Okay. Did do they get around down to the valley on a regular basis? Because it doesn't sound like we're getting a lot of enforcement. >> We're missing a lot of revenue. >> And and I don't and I don't mean to uh uh uh assume everything that is said
today, you know, in context is is is necessarily true. And there will are probably a lot of factors that influence what happens as uh council and casolini said, but we do need to really focus on this. We've spent a lot of money and
really said this is a priority with the parking study and uh part of the reason it hasn't moved forward is because we have to allocate capital and we're having some issues because our debt is just so overwhelming and we've got to get a debt management plan. this is a priority and we need to move forward
particularly if we don't need to uh wait for capital expenditures in order to start uh getting this done but we can talk about it at the uh at the uh uh new business section. Um, we've spent a lot of time tonight, so I
think I'll just uh sort of move on from here and uh uh at 8:58 we will move on to our regular agenda. Thank you everybody. >> Madame Clerk.
>> Yes sir. Consent agenda. Uh, approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting of September 30th, 2025. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Report of township officers. None. Reading of petitions and communications
and bids. Contract for snow removal services from sidewalks, paths, crosswalk, and bus shelters, and stops within the township for uh for 2025 26. >> Could I just interrupt you? I'm sorry. Every everybody everybody we're trying
to conduct a meeting. I know you want to talk. Please move it outside. Please move it outside. >> Mr. Gibbons, >> please move your talking outside.
Thank you. >> I'm sorry. Go ahead, M. >> No, that's okay. Um, contract for snow removal. Oh, yes. snow room services uh from sidewalks, paths, crosswalk, and bus shelters, and stops within the township for 2025 26.
>> That's a bid that was put out. Um bill list. Are there any questions on the bills? >> Yes. >> Um I would like to just discuss a few I would like to just discuss a few of the bills. Um and I'm I'm wondering whether
or not one should be pulled. Um the AT&T bill. Yeah, this has been sort of a favorite issue for me. I like to look at every bill. Um as a result of um the review of the bill and being able to
work with the administration, we have now saved $4,000 a month. And I think that's significant savings. However, when I looked at it again, we are now down from 10,000 to just about 6,000. I looked at it again and went
through every single phone and found that there are 18 phones that are not being used at all and there are five that have only one minute of text or one text on it and I have asked for a a review of this. I was told I am
micromanaging and my response to that is that these are our public finances. This is our fiduciary responsibility. You're talking about a lot a lot of money. If we can bring this down to between three
to$4,000 a month instead of the 6,000, why not do it? I think there needs to be a careful review. And mayor, I am asking that this review I've already done it. I've I've listed out all of the phones on pages and pages. I've already done
the review. I'm just asking that this administration follow through with the work that I've already laid out and and make an analysis whether or not we can save taxpayer money. Um the other thing is I just wanted to ask and maybe Mr.
Datiniac can can respond to this. We um got a PSCG bill. It's always very very high. I understand that there's going to be a new supplier. Can you tell me is that an aggregate supplier? Is that going to be saving the township money?
>> So, I'll I'll respond to the first uh comment about the the telephones and sometimes the lack of of voice minute usage or text messages. I mean, for the phone that I carry, the majority of what I do on it is email. Uh and and the
banking um I have a soft token for the the township's banks that is just on this phone. Um so, that could be the case. We need to look at data usage as well for all the phones. And I think certainly if we see you know zero data
usage, zero voice minutes, you know, zero text messages probably means the phone is turned off um and you know just as we did with uh a lot of the hotspots a few months ago, you know, we'll certainly um get those phones back and
and and turn them off if if that's the case. But like if you looked at my phone, you know, you're not going to see much text messaging or I have some not much voice. Uh I use my other phone for for calls, but it's all email. Um but
yeah, we'll look for like zero usage phones. I'll have Mauricio um pull those phones from wherever they are and Sorry. >> No, please finish. She's been deactivated. >> Raise her hand. >> Yeah. Just just as we did with hotspots, just as we do with dead phone lines, you
know, there's no reason to have them. We'll get rid of them. >> Counciloman Castelino, you've had your hand up for what? >> Yeah. So, again, going back to the way we handle our HR. So, if you have a phone, like does this do the phones get
logged in and out of HR? Like, whoever's covering our HR because that's where you could keep help keep track of it. Plus, I'm a little disappointed. I mean, again, we don't know because it could be email use. You're you know, we're making assumptions here, so we we have to find
out. But if everything's all zeroed out and the phone isn't being used, I I mean, then it's got to be on your tech department. It's got to be on somebody, whether it's on HR, HR there, because council people shouldn't be finding this. And I know everybody gets
frustrated and and yes, it is micromanaging, but she shouldn't have to micromanage. And and so we need to put a system in place that it, you know, we don't have we don't have to look I don't because I don't have that time to look at every bill and then call like I look at the
bigger ticket items and as far as AT&T is concerned, I mean they'll give you a credit. So, I wouldn't hold up payment of AT&T bill because they're going to charge you late charge. So, any case, I just again talking about best practices, how we're
going to handle that because I've been to asking that throughout the budget process. >> Sure. I mean, I'm saying we'll look I'm not confirming that there's phones that have totally zero usage. means I'm
responding to a comment and, you know, >> without the benefit of of researching it and seeing, you know, not to say the truth of it. I'm I'm sure that there's there's phones with zero voice minutes and all that, but again, if there's totally zero usage phones, um, just as
they did with the hotspots, I'm sure that our IT department looks into those things. um you know we have a limited amount of time in the day and many many things to do. So you know are we going to reach maximum
efficiency and solve every single problem and there's not going to be one penny of waste. That's just not true. It's it's not true at every level of uh you know size corporation or government. You know there's always going to be um
some level of waste. uh we try to do our best to limit it and when you bring things to us while you know we can consider it micromanaging you know we welcome again the opportunity I think we keep saying today to do better um you know we take that as
an opportunity to do better and tomorrow morning I'll probably sit with Mauricio and we'll be looking at bills and we'll look at phones that and if we find any zero usage we'll we'll get rid of them so a credit to to the council when they bring these things to Um,
as far as is HR tracking all the equipment and the phones? No. You know, it is tracking the phones. Um, we are going to use a new system called Prime Point and one of the um,
you know, one of the the modules that's included is a is an HR module. Um, we're committed. I've already spoken with uh administration and and uh the assistant BA's support staff about making sure
that we enter in certain property um uh you know property attributes to the profiles being phones. um physical keys, the electronic key for the the door out back or any sort of um you know on the
police side they have a lot more of the uh electronic key cards. you know, logging all those things to make sure that when there's a separation of employment, whether it's due to retirement, um, termination or, you know, whatever the reason is that, you know, we have
all the property documented in one one place and that's turned in before there's a release of any final payment. Um, or computers as well. Um, so we want to put that all in one place so that I
don't have to rely on, well, Mauricio knows there's a phone and I and and Louis Reynolds knows that there's physical keys that this person has. You know, we want it to be all in one place. So, >> um, you know, that we're entering into the new Prime Point system right now and
when it goes live in January, you know, everybody's profile will have all their property in it. So, >> okay. And if anybody retires prior to that, then you'll be you'll see make sure everybody's handed. >> Yeah. I think like, you know, we have an understanding of the, you know, who has
phones and who would have a computer and, you know, hopefully we're getting the key cards, but we can deactivate those. Like that's not, you know, the end of the world if we don't get a key card. We electronically deactivate them. Physical keys, obviously, we want to get those back. Um but just having
everything in one place so that we know all the assets that we have out there and who has them. Um is important to us so that uh you know there's no mystery to it like oh you know we forgot to get a computer from Joe Smith when he left us two years
ago. >> Where's that computer now? >> Exactly. >> Yes. >> Or tablet. Yeah. >> So just to >> Hold on a sec. Hold on a sec. They're having a conversation. I'll re If you raise your hand, >> I'm done. >> Thank you, Councilwoman Ruth.
>> Um I I have identified the 18 phones. So, it's in it's in that list. Um and I did I did it by talk, text, and data. And data would include the email. Your phone is is not on this list because you're obviously using it. So, I'm only
trying to bring out phones that that people are not using or that just may, you know, be out there. Yeah, we have zero usage. Um I'll get with Mauricio and get those phones back. >> Okay. Um >> you lose them.
>> In terms of PSEG, do you anticipate a savings? >> So the the the supply um side of things that does get bid out. So we'll have a savings on the supply. Obviously, the transmission side of things is is still going to be um PSENG
and that um I'm forgetting that sort of Pennsylvania Ohio energy transmission cartel um that that drives the the cost of the energy up. But yes, the supply side of things, we'll see a little bit of a savings because of the the bidding
and those aggregate. Okay. >> I just want to thank you for that. And the last thing I wanted to bring out is that I noticed a another charge unfortunately for euthanasia. Um, which means that this year a third dog has
been put down. And not only is that very sad um as a community, but I think that we owe more to to these dogs to try and help them get homes. Um, and we owe them a fighting chance. So, I just urge the
community to to remember that we have dogs that have been in our shelter for a long time and that when it gets too long or if there's a problematic dog, and I know that this one was considered a problematic dog, may not have been had it gotten some attention and had it been
elsewhere that we really need to, you know, we do, we have a kill shel uh a kill animal control. This is not a shelter. So, I just want to um bring that to everybody's attention. If you know somebody who's looking for a dog, please try to um use our West Orange
shelter. And that's it for bills. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. I just want to just follow up on this. Could you please uh send this material to Mr. Diniac, the the results of your research and also CC it to the council just so that we can try to stay up with you because you're
way ahead of us on a lot of the bills. I did. >> So, it just would it would just be uh helpful. Um I think to Mr. Tiniac who is already juggling too many balls. >> Please. >> I think everybody has it. I sent it to everybody. It's handwritten. I
apologize. That's okay. But >> no thank >> three pages. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So we're done with bills. >> Okay. Resolutions. Are any resolutions being pulled this evening? >> Yes. Um, >> just waiting for a hand to go up.
>> Oh, I Mr. Datiniac. >> Oh, Mr. Dutin's going to pull some bills. >> That's helpful. >> Resolutions. >> No resolution. >> Oh, thank you. >> Council President, if I may. >> Yes. Please just speak into the mic if >> Yes. I
>> my >> I know. >> Usually my mic is louder. >> You're off. Yeah, it might be the wrong one. There's one that's better than the other. >> Hello. >> There we go. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Council President, um for tonight, we we
unfortunately have to pull resolution 228-25 and 229-25. Uh the first one is the public hearing and adoption of budget amendment number one. Uh we are still going to have the public hearing, I'm sorry. Um but we are
not going to vote on the amendment or you're not going to vote on the amendment. And uh the second resolution is the adoption of the 2025 municipal budget. We're going to pull that resolution as well. Um we're working with DGS to get approval um to pass the
amendment and the and the budget. I don't have approval just yet. We're still submitting some documents to them. Should have it by Tuesday or Wednesday. Um so we're going to push this to the meeting on the 28th. Okay. Uh there's also another associated
resolution here which is 230-25 which is uh resolution authorizing the collector of taxes to extend the grace period for the 2025 fourth quarter taxes. >> Correct. So uh in the body of the resolution we contemplated an adoption
of uh with today's date. Um, so if it's okay, we'll amend the date in that resolution to reflect um, October 28th or we could just push it to the 28th
meeting and adopt them all at once. Um the resolution uh doesn't specify what the date moves to because we won't know the exact date till we have the bills actually postmarked and then we have to give 25
days for those bills to be out on the street. Uh and that will establish what the the um uh the grace period end date is. >> Yes. And uh I understand that the
administration is taking additional steps because of the recognition of the stress to a lot of taxpayers uh property taxpayers who uh are fearing their having to pay their fourth quarter taxes
given what's happened with a lot of people in the reval uh having increased taxes. So, I I salute the the the administration for trying to push out more information, but I I this is what I think we'll h
we'll have to decide as a council. Uh I think we should pass this sooner rather than later and then also roll out the communication so that more people find out sooner that they they are not going to get up against the wall quite as much as they're afraid of.
>> Council President, I'm okay with that. I defer to um our legal counsel. Is it okay if we change the date in the resolution to reflect October 28th? Um because it's reflecting October 16th. >> Yeah. Should we pass
>> and you are Thank you. I didn't mean to interrupt you, Mr. Burke. You are absolutely certain, no question in your mind that we are going to be able to adopt this budget on 28th. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, we'll I I I leave it up to the council members, but if you want to just
change that date and you please. >> I mean, I I will say I don't even know if a date is necessary for this resolution, but we've put one in there. Um, and let's just change it for the 28th. >> So, no, >> you're talking about the very first whereas,
>> correct? Thank you. >> So, Councilwoman, you had a question. Do you think it would be advisable to have the have a special meeting and get this passed since you said it's going to be done on Tuesday? >> No, because I don't want to, you know, I can't speak for DLGS. So, you know, if
they tell me Wednesday and then it's Thursday and then, you know, we have a meeting on it's only 12 days away. Um, you know, I spoke to the tax collector, we'll be fine. It's just leave it for the 28th. >> Okay. And then I just want to follow up.
um are meetings currently taking place so that we'll get our budget on time this year. >> So if Council President, would you like me to speak? >> Oh, please. >> On this. Okay, >> please. >> So I I I've acknowledged in previous meetings my failings to deliver this
budget to the council and to the residents of West Orange on a timely basis. Um so January 15th is when we will deliver our sort of we'll call draft legal budget document. Um, we've already begun
the process of assembling all the 2026 salaries and potential promotions and and I got feedback this year um from council members about how they wanted to see those salaries and potential promotions as separated out so that it
wasn't just one big assumed number for per person or per title I should say. Um so I've taken the feedback in in how I present the salary and wage um portion to um to the governing body. And on the
other end of things with the operating expenses um we're prepared to justify our our requests with um you know with with solid projections of what we need to spend and what we need to purchase.
um so that we're not sitting here in in multiple meetings um you know without being able to defend the the amounts that we ask for. Um so I don't want a repeat of 2025 ever again for this
community and we are going to work towards coming together and deciding on uh what we feel is best for this community as as a group. If I have to play the fishing game with all of the
comments >> available at Amazon games.com. >> Um so we've already started the process. Uh we're going to develop um some some nice presentations for the the public
again to justify what we ask for and we're going to make it a much more collaborative uh uh process. Obviously as as the mayor, she gets the first crack at things and and then you know we
will bring it to the council um to discuss. But yeah, we're committed to January 15th and and we want to be the first community in Essex County. >> Yes. >> Um >> I think you're very nice. >> That was my compliment.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Um so so yes, we've already started the process. We hope to hold some some presentations in December. >> Good. Uh and and again, I don't want when I give you a budget on
the 15th for anybody to be surprised like it was uh on April 16th of 2025. And again, that is on me. Um I I'm that is not the mayor. That was me. And uh
we're not going to do that. So 15th, you will have a budget, but we're going to be talking budget in the next couple months. It's like you're going to know where things are going in December. Um, but you will have your official budget document January 15th. I think it's a
holiday. >> January. >> Yes, please. >> I just have one more question for for Mr. Diniac. Um, along with the budget, since we're going to be moving into next year's budget, this council has authorized $75,000 for forensic audit
for beginning this year. what's going on with that. >> Um, so, you know, we're working on putting our RFPs out for everything. Um, I'll certainly work on an RFP for that. uh something that is more in line with like what
Clifton did rather than um the RFP that was put out for the initial forensic um audit that was you know it it asked for you know to cover too many individual items and that's why I think
the price ballooned. Um, so we're going to take some guidance from Clifton and and put something together uh because I I read through that audit. I think it was very valuable in the insights um that uh that the firm
came up with and you know we could definitely benefit from that. So I think that's going to be the scope and we'll get something out on the street as soon as we can. >> And couldn't we anticipate that for the next meeting? No, I don't want to say the next meeting because it's only 12
days away and I'm going to be busy just getting DLGS approval. Um, so I don't want to put a timeline on that just because I I'll give you a date because I'm under pressure and then I'm not going to meet it being totally honest. Um, but we will talk about it.
You know, I I'll talk about it with with the interim business administrator, mayor, and assistant business administrator, and we will get something out there. Um, this is not something I'm going to sit on. I'm supportive of. Um, but I don't
want to just tell you October 28th. >> I I can't just because I can't. Just >> Thank you. Just keep us in the loop. >> We will. We will. Yeah. and and thank you for, you know, listen, you
you came in here last year, a year ago, and you had a lot of um how can I say you've done you've done a lot with your time. So, we've squeezed so much out of you and this council has and plus what
you inherited from the the you know prior uh CFO and I'm not saying that's as a knock but you know it our we've been very antiquated through the years catching up uh on a lot of issues and I'm just going to leave it there because
I'm going to play the fishing game and um but thank I appreciate appreciate you taking the brunt of the responsibility, but I we know you have been working tirelessly and your staff has and there's only so many hours in the day and we put a lot
of tough um uh requests on you and um so thank you. Just really thank you. I know you've been working really hard. >> Oh, it you know the township deserves it. Um, you know, I hear the people that come up and speak and, you know, it
always blows me away at, you know, how intelligent and wellspoken the residents are. Um, you know, they they demand the best because they deserve the best and that's the product that my office administration and all the departments want to give to the township and I think
that's where we all are aligned. Um, we just need to find a way to to work together on it. But um yeah, I don't >> the more hours in your day. >> That's what Sundays are for. And >> well, you need your family. Yeah.
>> My wife doesn't want to see me that much. >> Yeah. >> I just want to thank you for 150 giving 150%. We all know it and we all appreciate it. We got a lot of great feedback from from you guys and CBA CBA and um you know we've taken that all
into consideration for our plan for 2026. And you know I'm not going to say where the numbers are going to shake out to. But just know that when we do come to the public and we come to you that there
was a lot of effort put into, you know, making sure that it was it's a responsible budget and and that we're quantifying, you know, what we need and we're we're putting numbers to the things that we need. You know, we have an individually significant item limit
for all of our departments, you know, that we're coming up with so that, you know, pay the bigger budgets. it's going to be bigger items that we're discussing for the little budgets. It's going to be down to the the little stuff. Um we just we want to be prepared for you
and and we hope that um you know it it leads to a much better process with fewer meetings um and more maybe more productive meetings. Um so that that's that. >> Yes. And and I'll agree with everybody.
My perspective has been that we demonstrated uh convincingly that our budget process is broken. 2025 proved that we need to rebuild the process and I I think
everybody is is agreed on that and uh we think that you're the guy to to help us do that. I I will say though uh we need to we need to address capital budget for this year and maybe even uh capital budget for next year as soon as
possible. I know we don't have a whole lot we can borrow under our debt management plan. But if we can if we can get the debt management plan in place, if we can get the capital uh budget in place, that's going to go a long way to helping us uh with the budget because
right now we're spending 12% of our budget on debt service. So the sooner we get that cranking the the more it's going to have a positive impact on on all the property tax. So from a capital perspective, we we met today the department heads um you know I
reiterated the sort of limits that we have considering that we did not have much debt issued in in 2024 but in 2025 we did do a pretty significant um uh road uh streets and roads ordinance for
all the grants that we have in place um you know all the money the capital that we have to put up for the grants. Um, but also acknowledging that we have a need for new radio cars and and replenishment of of some of the the nonpublic safety fleet. Um, so we're
going to bring that. It's a high priority. You know, I think we've heard from the public about parking, how that is a top priority for us. Um but again, we're trying to to live within our means um of the debt plan while also acknowledging and I will bring you an
ordinance uh you know in in November or yeah, November um you know for our our legacy uh sick and vacation payout costs um which you know continue to be
significant. You know, we're averaging the last few years like a million and a half dollars in payouts. And that's continued for 2025. And 2026, I don't think will be as as impactful, but you know, probably
a million bucks. >> 2025 is not going to be impactful. >> No, 2026 will be as impactful. >> Sorry. >> Um killed. >> We're going to get killed. >> So that that is part of our debt. um because we cannot budget for that in one
year. Um so we do the special emergency and we need to do the notes because otherwise it restricts fund balance. So you know that's that's also part of it. Um that eats into our available um
annual debt allocation. Um so we will bring our high priority projects and but still knowing that I have to I have to borrow for the uh the payouts. >> Yes. Unfortunately we did not borrow
last year for those payouts and now it's >> right and snowballing >> and that's going to be included last year's you know I'm going to put that up as an ordinance as well. So >> okay thank you. Um are you finished with your polls Mr.
Uh, so I think we agreed we're going to we're going to amend we're going to pull 230 and amend it and then uh put it up for a vote in discussion. >> Correct. >> Okay. Is there is uh are you >> I'm okay with all of all of that. Yeah. >> Okay. I think Councilman Castelino had
the had your hand up first on these things. Do you have anything to pull? >> Yeah. >> Or questions. >> I have one comment and and one poll. I was going to have two, but then I got information. I am going to pull 224
and I have a comment on 222. >> So my comment You want my comment first? >> Sure. As long as you're >> Yeah. So So my comment on unless somebody else needed 222 pulled. So everybody good. 222.
>> Okay. >> You guys are good. So 22 22 my comment was I just wanted folks to realize this is road improvements for Mars Road, Sussex Road uh and Hunter improvements because I know that has
been quite the uh bumpy path up there in that uh neighborhood. So that those improvements are coming your way. question for and I'm not sure if it's appropriate or not, if I could ask now or impending matters, but there are two
other streets that I've been asking about for a while. They're not in this neighborhood and I don't I just wanted to ask uh our director that's here um any and we might have passed them in
the other bond ordinances, but I don't think we did. Did did we do Hellside Terrace and Cornell Street? Those are actually current currently under design. Um we don't have any money right now to put
that to it. Um actually I'm actually uh working with my staff in breaking up the project. instead of two um roadway projects, I'm going to break it up into four in order to like minimize
the amount of money that we're going to have to ask or borrow. So, Hillside Terrace is one of them. Um another one is um Lynen Avenue, Lynen Court. Um, that one is kind of a priority because I
know for a fact that there is a pipe that is um it's a corrugated metal pipe that is actually disintegrating as we speak probably. Um, and I need to put that one out to bid first. Hillside Terrace is on the other side of
town. I tried to break them up so that the mobilization for the contractor is in in a specific neighborhood neighborhood. Neighborhoods in the way they've been waiting. I know they've been waiting over I just want my co I know you know I just want my colleagues to know. I know she's been trying to be
good with the bonding >> but you know I go to Hillside Terrace over been waiting over 20 years to get that street done. It's >> kids riding their bike someone's going to get hurt >> and it's really embarrassing because it's a street that's on the South Orange
border and South Orange did their job on their side of the street and >> and there's us and it's embarrassing. The other street is Cornell Street, which is a lot of people use it as a cutth through >> and that's a nightmare as well. And
that's been what, like 20 years, too, right? That's way over time to get paved. >> Cornell Ste is actually on the list. >> Oh, we did. We did get that one on the list. Okay. >> Is it is on the list. Like I say, I have a list of roads. I guess we're talking about probably over a hundred roads at
this point. >> Yeah. And obviously I cannot do them all in one year. Nor can I promise anybody that I'm going to get done in five years. I don't know what you know the budget is going to be and how much money can we actually borrow to do all of this. Right now like I said I have two
projects under design. Each one of them has at least between 16 streets each which I'm trying to break it up into four projects and that way at least we could get some of them moving. And then Cornell Streets is on the list along with another streets that I haven't even
asked anybody to design them yet because >> Yeah. Now we got to get our our our >> Yes. >> I just wanted to stress it to you all because it they're that bad. I I mean it, you know, they shouldn't have to come at a council meeting and and
begging us. >> We need to get these capital projects to our to our desk. >> Yes. And we also need to get through our council meeting tonight. So, okay, a lot of appreciate your time. Yes, it's we're
not going to fix it tonight. So, we're we're still here trying to figure out whether what we're pulling. And Miss Carbalo, if you could just stay there just in case there's any other questions. Uh, do either of you, Council People, have uh uh anything you want to pull? >> Yes. >> 223. >> 223.
>> Yeah. Okay. Councilman Ruden would like to pull 223. >> Okay. >> Anything else, Councilwoman? >> Um, no. These are the others. Oh, yes. I do have I have some questions on on 219.
>> Okay. 219. Um, Councilwoman Scarp, are you planning on pulling 219? >> No. >> Okay. Uh, and either am I, so ask away if you wouldn't mind, Council Ruden. >> Okay. >> On 219, >> not pulling, but just asking questions.
>> Right. So, this is an issue having to do with the removal of a um statue of uh Christopher Columbus um that was authorized by Mayor Prey and has resulted in litigation between the township and Mayor Paresi for a very
long time. Um the complaintants have twice lost their case in court and now this is being referred to litigation. I really just want >> mediation >> mediation. Uh I just really want to understand why if they've lost twice
this is now being referred to mediation. >> We don't have an attorney who is representing us in this present in the chambers tonight. Right. Then may perhaps the short answer is because the judge said so. >> That's the court order. Yeah, >> it is a court order. >> Yeah, I would assume it's probably a
court-ordered mediation, but I'm not familiar with that case. >> Okay. And then and then my other question with this was um this is going to an hourly rate of $400 per hour. Um there is a mediation group that provides
mediation for four hour four hours free. I just I'm not understanding the expenses involved in this and there does not seem to be a cap in the uh hourly rate >> and why aren't we using the American Arbitration Association?
>> Wow. >> So those those are my questions. >> Unfortunately, I don't think anybody has the answers. >> Yeah, I I couldn't tell you specifically for this case, but generally if you were going to go to the American Arbitrations Association, you'd probably have to agree that that was binding. So that may
be a reason not to do that. Um, and usually if it's court-ordered mediation, there's usually some period of 6 hours, 3 hours, whatever it is that is free and then after that you have to agree to continue it. So there may be a situation where they don't have to continue the mediation. I'm not really sure, you
know, it may not even be quartered mediation. So I I don't know the familiar I'm not familiar with the spec specifics of this case, but um hopefully that could be helpful background if if anything. >> Thank you, Mr. Spur. >> Anything else? Yeah. Yeah. I just don't understand. You know,
>> those are the questions I have, which is, are we getting four hours of free free mediation? We're being charged four hours uh $400 per hour, and there's no cap on this. >> Well, Mr. Moon is the one that um
did this or uh resolution rather. So, he would be the person that we would need to discuss that with. >> Okay. So all of those questions I did ask in my questions that were submitted >> and I did not get response. >> So the the the answer that was given by
the administration was that it's courtmandated mediation and there is no cap on on the fee. >> That's right. And we can we can bifurcate this. Councilwoman, you're asking very good questions. There's no one who can answer them tonight. Uh
>> true. But I do know that according to the resolution uh the judges ordered us to do this. So I would hesitate to not move forward on that. But let's get your answers uh as soon as possible. Does that sound like a plan?
>> Yes. So we'll pull this until we get the answers. >> Yes. Well, now you know it's Mr. Moon, so just pass it through. Uh >> okay. Well, I I did put it in all the questions and I didn't get a response. >> Yes. So >> I I know I read the questions and Mr.
Moon is not among them. So we need to we need to go after him to get these answers. >> Okay. >> Is that it? >> Um yeah. Oh, that's it for 219. Yes. >> Okay. >> Question. >> Yes, please. Sorry. >> So in response to her request,
Mr. Furk, are you going to So, who's going to follow up on the question? Because this is the, you know, pass the baton around to the attorney that's going to help us. So, >> so Mayor, just so you know, this is where I get frustrated.
>> Okay. Councilwoman asked a question. He did. M. Mr. Mr. Burks here. So, >> read the answer. It wasn't answered. >> Yeah, but that answer is in >> the answer from Mark. >> No cap on the mediation. This is the court mandated mediation. >> That's Mr. Moon's response. >> Yes, it is.
>> Because he he just didn't answer questions. >> It wasn't on our response. >> Yes. >> So, he just answered. He may have that that did not come through to us. >> Well, that what she just read was in the answers, but there weren't there were multiple questions that you asked that
weren't answered. >> That's what we need to do. And I I just suggest that you send an email to uh Mr. >> No, no, no, no. I No. What I'm recommending uh council president is that Mr. Burke takes care of that. We shouldn't She shouldn't have to resend
another question. >> Our attorney is here. You're representing us tonight. Whatever isn't answered, I appreciate if you could send to Mr. Moon and get the followup to make sure we have it for tomorrow. >> Okay. I have a email here that the
question request for October 16th council meeting agenda and it says 21925 litigation mediation. Are there any limits to our funding of this medi mediation? Either a not to exceed or a time of or a time duration limit. I
don't see any other part to that question. >> Well, that's a question that I asked. >> That was his question, not my question. >> So, she had a separate page of question. >> So, I'm wondering question. >> He didn't get that page that part. >> Council President, if I may, >> that's all I see. I
>> If I may. >> No, sir. >> If I may, let me just suggest this, Mr. Burke. I don't begrudge you >> uh being able to serve us and and get your hourly rate, >> but I I think this can be done much more efficiently and cheaply, which is let's
get the questions that you asked, send them to the mayor and the assistant business administrator. Tell them that we need Mr. Moon's response as soon as possible and just give them the the the questions because obviously something broke in this process.
>> We'll do. >> Okay. I don't think he got them because I don't see them. >> Anyway, >> that could be that could be this is not this is not a simple copied on that as well because sometimes I I like to follow up if nobody else is. >> I'm sure if Councilwoman Ruden says clerk should be copied.
>> Well, then actually, Madam Clerk, you should follow always follow up for us, council president, because we we need some kind of >> continuity. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I can certainly follow up. >> Well, it works most of the time. Council President, I think another question that needs to be answered is, is this
timesensitive? >> You're saying you're going to table it and wait for the answer. Then how do you when do you vote on it? >> I'm not suggesting that we table it, and if somebody wants to table it, we'll take a vote, but I I I think the judge said we need to do this, right? Let's get it done sooner rather than later. That's just my thought, but I'm one of
So, uh I'm not suggesting to table. If anybody wants to table it, then they need to pull it now and uh we'll we'll discuss and vote on it. >> Yeah. But I don't think anybody wants to pull it. So, I think we're good. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> We'll still get answers. >> Okay. >> Uh, Councilman Scarpa, do you have
anything? >> No, I'm good. >> Okay. And I don't have anything either. >> So, >> all right. So, I have here pulled 22325, 22425, >> um, and 23025.
>> That's correct. >> Okay. So, is there a motion to approve the consent? Make a motion. >> Is there a second? >> A second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? The consent agenda is implemented.
Um, now 22 325 resolution authorizing the release of the performance bond posted by Essex, I'm sorry, by Green Essex Partners urban renewal entity um to guarantee the installation of certain off-site improvements in the
amount of $132,399.90 be released subject to posting a 2-year maintenance bond with the township in the amount of $48,513. $1. Uh, is there a motion to approve this? Remember, we have to Oh, unless you
don't want to discuss it at all. >> No, we we we certainly can entertain a motion, but I don't think there's going to be a motion to approve this. U >> or a motion to >> um introduce right here. Let's just >> Oh, we can't have discussion unless we
we like that. It saves a lot of time. If you're not going to vote on it, why are you going to discuss it? What's the discuss? >> We want to understand. Yeah, we want to understand what's going on. >> I know everybody likes to make comments, but and again, I'm not singling you out,
but we we are trying to move this forward if it's something that can help us get stuff done tonight. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. So, so I was going to pull this one earlier in the day, but then I recalled when the owner of the property
came in to um uh when we we changed the ownership and we went through all of the questioning. So, I had the same questions were already answered because guess I forgot about that. So, I was okay with it.
>> Okay. So that's that that's why I didn't pull it again because we ha we had that interrogation in close, you know, enclosed. So >> yep, can't talk about closed. >> Um I I don't know. Is does anybody else want to make a motion and then we can
discuss it? >> We have to make a motion to discuss. >> Well, >> okay, I'll make point of order. You should make a motion either to table it or to vote on it or to pass it and then discuss once it's got a second and then vote on it. Yes. What he said.
>> So, um I guess I make a motion to vote on this and then we can discuss it. >> Motion to approve. >> Yeah. If you want to approve it. If you'd rather table it for another meeting, then you can do that. >> I don't I want to table this. >> Make that motion. >> I want to make a motion to table this. >> I'll second it.
>> You want a motion to table? >> Okay. >> All right. Discussion. >> Okay. from first of all, I think that there there were issues having to do with tree replanting on this property that were not done. And um I'd like to
make sure that all of the all of the landscaping was done before we approved this. And there may be other things as well because we never really saw what was completed uh and what the punch list was that they were supposed to do. It just says that they want their money back. And I get
that. >> Well, they did give us a punch list. They gave us a punch list and it didn't say whether or not that punch list was met. It would just said that it it's on there. The other thing, and I don't know if this can be part of this this discussion, but
>> can we give them the dog park back >> at no cost? >> We are not going to settle that tonight as much as we would like. >> Okay. >> Uh Miss Garbalo, do you have any anything to add on this issue? Well, they they posted the uh
maintenance spawn for the landscaping and they have about two years to do what they need to do with the landscaping in regards to the punch list, right? But haven't they had it for more than two years? Their property has been finished for more than two years. So, my concern
is that if it's not done by now, then we've hit that point. Well, they just posted a maintenance bond for the landscaping and it doesn't expire until 2027. >> So, what is this for then?
>> This is to give them back the performance bond. Two different >> You see, when you approve, and let me explain it to you. The municipal land use law says that every time that you approve either something through zoning or planning use boards, they have to give you a performance bond. That performance bond is typically 15% of whatever the cost
>> just speaking microphone they can hear. Thank you. >> So it's a basically 15% typically of what it construction cost will be in case let's say the developer cannot finish the project. Once the project is finished then they are entitled to their
bond being returned to them. And in exchange, we typically get either a two-year bond unless otherwise is stipulated in the resolution and it's more time. So, it's typically another two years maintenance bond. When that
maintenance bond expires, we obviously got to go back and check and address it. If it's not, then it's taken out of the maintenance bond. But typically, they don't want the insurance company, so they do take care of it. >> Okay? It's the same thing with
construction projects. >> So, my question is is that the council has not seen the list of a completed off-site improvements and we're just taking the guy who wants his money back um word that everything's done, but we
don't see a list. We don't see everything that that they were supposed to complete. There is a letter from the consulting company that is working for the township, which is CME Associates. They are the ones who conducted all of the inspections on behalf of the township plan and they're saying that everything is okay.
>> It says we have no our inspections have revealed that all items have been installed in a satisfac satisfactory manner. >> Mhm. >> And what does that include? Is that just having to do with the building, not the landscaping? >> It has to do with the outside.
>> Okay. It deals with landscaping. It deals with the parking. It deals with the pavement. It deals with the the storm water. >> Okay. So, yeah, that's where that's where I have some questions because the landscaping from what I've been told has
not has not been done. And and you're saying it has two more years from this point on. >> They have two years to advance it. >> Okay. From what point? When is the when is this when does the clock start? >> The date of the maintenance bond that was submitted. And I believe, if I'm not
mistaken, it was submitted last week. >> Oh. Okay. >> I wouldn't be writing these letters and asking you to give money back unless I get a maintenance bond first. >> All right. >> And you're saying the maintenance bond
is for another 48,000. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> That's correct. >> All right. >> It's typically 10% of whatever the landscaping cost is. The the fees or the calculations are basically done in accordance with the municipal land use law. >> Okay. I mean how do you keep track of this? >> That's what we paid the consultant to do
that. >> Okay. >> And typically if I have to like it has happened already on all our projects I have to ask their engineer to give me an estimate and then I sit down and I calculate it myself and I tell them exactly what they need to give me. >> Okay. All right. So um
>> does that change your mind? >> It does change my mind. >> Okay. So you want to resend >> two years? >> Yes. Um council president. So, I'm reading from Robert Rules of Order. I never knew this. Um, the chair must put the motion to table to an immediate vote.
No, no discussion, no nothing. And then you can defeat that and then you can make another motion. >> Wow. >> Yeah, I never knew that. >> Missed that. >> Yeah. Vote on it. You learned something new every day. >> Blue table. >> Okay. So,
>> so we'll have to vote on this, >> right? So, so we need to delete the last 10 minutes >> of the of the then you can make a motion to amend. >> Well, we we do have a motion on the floor to table. >> We could just vote now.
>> The motion to table, >> right? If the motion to table fails, the original motion is once again before the assembly. The council can then proceed to debate and amend the original motion. So, we kind of went out of order, but >> Okay. So, you would just vote no. >> You would have to >> vote no to take. Okay. So, I make a
motion to table. Let's vote. >> Well, yes, you did. I already did that. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, >> we're going to all vote no. Um, no, I second it. She seconded. >> I seconded. So, we'll just vote no. >> No to take. >> Right. We're just going to vote no now. >> Right. Exactly. >> Mr. Burke, would it be okay if we didn't
tell um Captain Colonel Colonel Roberts that uh we're going to go out of order to just get done with this on the motion to table? Well, now we know. Now we know going forward. So, >> um, Councilwoman Castelino
>> to table. Yes. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Councilwoman Scar. >> Yeah. >> Council President Kovia. >> No. >> Okay. Now you can make your amendment to approve if that's what you wish to do.
>> Okay. I make I make a motion to approve. >> I'll second. Okay. >> Any discussion? >> No. >> God. No. Let's move. >> Madam Clair. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Spa. Council President Koviaak.
>> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. Okay. Next is 22425 resolution authorizing the release of the performance bond posted by Arco Murray National Holdings Inc. uh the developer
of Trojan Storage to guarantee the installation of certain off-site improvements in the amount of $10,1508 be released subject to posting a three-year maintenance bond with the township in the amount of $8,31. >> Okay. So, I guess my first question is,
>> well, if you're going to discuss, you do have to make a motion. >> I make a motion. Um, >> if you make a motion to table, according to Colonel Roberts, we don't discuss, we just vote. >> Right. And if you make a motion to approve, you can always defeat it. Okay.
I'll make a motion to approve this. >> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. Okay. Wait. Okay. Never mind. Go on. >> Go now. Discussion. >> Now discussion. >> Council. >> So, going to your last conversation with the maintenance bond.
I So this is the same situation. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. And this is just for the landscaping which is a three-year maintenance because the resolution said it had to be three years. Okay. So in
regards to the issue with the resident, I mean I, you know, I try to look at the information earlier and I have to be honest with everyone. I didn't realize that the slope I was
expecting a a more of a pitch in the slope. I didn't realize it was a little I was expecting like a cliff in the back. It's a little more slight like less uh slant less uh less
severe than I thought it was. I guess the best way to to it. Are we going to be doing any investigation on that or that's was the investigation or is there any other information that you didn't have to send us in regards to her complaint?
>> Basically what I sent you is the investigation. I actually emailed them on Tuesday and they went out there I believe yesterday and then they sent me the picture for the toleration matting which
is the one question that you had. Um and that's pretty much it. I mean they concluded all the inspections already. Um and obviously they dropped the letter saying that everything was you know done in accordance with the plans. If more investigation needs to be
conducted, the question then will be who's going to be paying for that. Is the township going to be paying for it? >> Would it come out of the performance bond or no? >> No. I I cannot use the performance bond for that. And typically what it does for the inspections, if you're going to have
CME do it or whoever X, Y, and Z company, typically the applicant will submit escrow. He's not going to submit any more money. He's he's finished. So,
not sure how how are we going to address this or how much more can we address it. I mean, according to the inspector, there clearly shows the limit of disturbance on the matting picture and it didn't
reach, I guess, the fence. Yeah, I saw that. So, it was far away from the property. >> Yes, >> I also saw too cuz I that one did I had the notes for the zoning condition of
the the uh the map for the erosion and that's what I had asked too if that was completed and that task was completed. Yes, they they I told them or I asked them to go back into the records and see what pictures they had as well
as to like, you know, check it out. >> So, do they still need to do more landscaping there or >> I think most of the landscaping is completed. Um they did mention that one tree or one was down probably because of
the storm that we had recently, but I'm sure between now and then they will get it done. Well, I was I went around the entire >> Hold on just a second. Councilwoman has the floor. So, >> no I thank you and I appreciate that because no, I wasn't done. Um, so no.
Well, the the picture clearly shows where they didn't disturb the vegetation at the back of her property. But next to that, they did plant a bunch of trees along in the back there. Mhm.
>> And I was just trying to just verify that that was the property in question where they didn't disturb the vegetation and then you know then that was clarified for me. So I don't know what's the timeline on this if there's any additional investigation that could be
done. >> I will have to have somebody do the investigation. I mean I didn't do the inspections. I wasn't even here last when this was regarded construction. >> Um, >> I will have to ask CME and obviously they're going to basically have to build the township.
>> Did anybody talk to Mr. Beyond in regards to what he recalls when Mr. Leapor was here? >> I haven't got the opportunity to talk to Mr. Beyond. I'll have to give him a call. I know he
was sent an email with the letter. >> Yes. Yeah. So, he needs some time to respond. So, I think >> the letter stated what 14 two days ago. >> He received it two days ago and then he was sent it again.
>> This was respond for him. I know he does a lot of inspections >> and he's out a good amount of time, just as much as I do sometimes, if not more. >> Okay. Um, but now here's the problem. Because we
couldn't table, we needed to discuss. It's like you know you know you know you know >> go through the same thing. You could approve or not and then you know motion. >> No we can bring it back next week.
>> And then you could bring it back next week if we >> you do a motion to table. Then you would vote on that after you vote on this. >> You would let this one fail or you wouldn't you know >> you could let this fail and then you could bring back. It's not like an ordinance where you have to reschedu.
>> No. and it cost us money and all that. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think I think we're better off waiting to Yeah. at least at the very least >> get comments back from Mr. Beyond to see what was done in the past. >> Okay. >> I would also like to request that the
homeowner be there. I think it's really improper that that CME went onto her property without alerting her and without they went into their property. >> Yeah, they clearly was on the property. You could see from the pictures. So, I think that the homeowner who knows
exactly what the situation is should have been there to describe to the the consultant about what has happened. >> Are you done, Councilwoman? >> Yes. >> Council, >> I just have a quick question. Were the trees that were replanted sticks or were
they mature trees? I mean, maybe there's not enough planted there to absorb. >> I wouldn't be able to answer your question. >> We don't know. of what was >> I'm sure it's a variety of landscaping between you know right that typically is usually
nothing compared to what's taken down and that's could be why we have all these problems >> there's no root systems to absorb all of that was the problem when this project was first >> you know >> this was you done
>> yeah go ahead >> please >> um this was done on on a steep slope more than 15% grade There was a lot of concern when this was built and the homeowners who lived above this were were out speaking about it at at the and they were concerned that this would
happen and and this did happen and I walked the entire property and in the back so many trees that may have been up are now down dead and left. >> Also, they're planting that I went I looked over the entire map and counted
out every single tree. Um they have they have two trees on the side. They did they did plant decent sized trees. I have to say for the most part they the the um the trees are are are are decent size except for seven trees around the front
of the of the um uh garbage where they're trying to to hide the garbage. They they they planted these little tiny baby I don't even know what they are but they were supposed to be sour gum trees that were supposed to have at least a 2
and 1/2 caliber that they didn't plant what they said that they were going to do and they didn't plant along another side but they did do a fair amount of planting but they also left a lot of grade just empty. So clearly something is happening that has weakened the
integrity of the water absorption there and is affecting the resident's property. So I would really like you know your department either through you or through CME to make a date with um Mrs. Goodman and and get out there and
re-evaluate. Also to look at look at look at the planting system which I feel is not is not awful by any means but it's not completely in compliance with what they said they would do. That's then they shouldn't get the fund back.
I guess I will have to contact CME and I guess when the bill comes I will have to speak to the CFO how we're going to pay it because I don't have any accounts on my end to pay for an inspection and for what according to the letter to conduct an engineering and environmental study
of what you know the ramifications are of the construction. Is it possible to speak with with the uh Trojan storage? Are they the original owners? Because it had a different name when the application came forward.
>> I wouldn't be able to tell you, but I do know for a fact they being they submitted also their performance bond maybe last week and they're looking, you know, >> they want their money back.
>> Maybe they need to do the job right, paint the right plantings. Well, it just disturbs me that there seems to be such different perspectives between the homeowner and uh CME on this issue. And I'm and I'm not clear if if
the construction of the project incidentally or accidentally damages an adjacent property. Is that something that is covered under the performance bond >> insurance >> uh of the project? because it sounds
like what they were looking at was did uh the applicant fulfill its obligations. Do I misunderstand that? >> When you go do an inspection for one of these projects, you got to make sure the outside looks more or less equivalent to
the plans that were approved. >> Okay. >> Now, to evaluate an adjacent piece of property that is offsite. Okay. >> Yeah. and make a determination as to whether or not this construction
cause any I would say structural damage or integrity to the other properties. It's a completely different study and a completely different professional and you also got to look at
the existing conditions versus what the proposed conditions are. I am not sure if anyone has any clear study of what the properties were under the let's say prior to construction conditions. So it would be me as an
engineer I'll be honest with you it will be difficult for me to make that determination and it will be something that you will need basically a professional to go out there and really see if there's any settlement on the foundation. What does the walls reveal? Is this something that has been going on maybe little by
little? I mean, houses do settle little by little until finally they don't settle no more. Um, they will also have to take a look and see which pipes that she's saying that you know are now I guess above the ground.
>> Yeah, that's what she says. >> So, is this something that would need to be in like like I said it is not just more than a visual inspection. It was something that would require a professional to go out there who is an expert on geotechnical
and a structural engineering to I would say write a technical report objectively, >> right? But what um what I question is why would CME go out
if if they had a very limited role here? Why would they go out and purport to do this in not investigation but whatever to review the adjacent property and basically say they didn't find any of
the conditions that the homeowner is alleging. So, >> I mean, >> I can understand if they went up to the to the back of the slope of the property of the uh developed property and they said, "Okay, this is what the uh this is what the planning board said you got to do." They did all of that.
>> But that's not what they said. They said they looked at the property and didn't see any of at least the >> it's a visual inspection. Also, looking at the limit of disturbance. Every time that you do construction, you got to look at the limit of disturbance. So if you haven't really ex if somebody's
telling you you're damaged my fence, right? You expect that the limit of disturbance would be up to the fence, >> but it's not. We've seen the pictures. Yes. And it's probably 15 20 ft. >> Oh. >> So that's the reason why they went out
there because I told them I'm like, "Can you please take a look at this?" I even provided them with some of the comments that were in the letter. Obviously, I didn't go into the whole studies and the other stuff, but they they clearly told me if you look at the pictures, you see that the limit of disturbance, the LOD,
doesn't extend all the way to the property line or aka the fence. >> Yes. And we saw the pictures. That certainly seems to be the case. So is your advice that we that we should actually approve this and and try to
deal with the the the separate issue of the the potential damage to the homeowners the adjacent homeowners property some separate way. >> I would refer more to like I guess the legal department. I mean we have
developers are how would I say this? The township hires a consultant, right, a professional who says that everything is been done properly and that it is okay to release their bond. So, would there be any legal ramifications and they
already gave us also their maintenance bonds and we don't return their money? It's possible. I mean, I've never dealt with this before. It It's more of a dispute between the two individual property owners at this point. Maybe that's pro part of the problem. I it's
hard to say what um you know if we're getting approval from an expert that we should release it that we can uh you know put it off for too too long. >> Can I just make a suggestion since the next council meetings is a couple of weeks away. That would give us a couple
of weeks to figure out what our next steps would be and what the law is. >> Um it's I'm sure this has come up before. I'm sure the law covers this issue of an adjacent property alleging damages and I'm not sure whether we as a
township or the planning board has a a liability or exposure to that. I I don't know. I I haven't heard this either. Would would there be would there be any uh would there be any dam
damage to either property's rights if we put off uh this bond for a couple of weeks? >> I'm sure if I tell the developer that we will it will be on the next council meeting and hopefully by then we have
some answers maybe from the construction official who happened to be out there. Um and also an answer from our legal department of whether or not this is a civil matter because if it is then >> yeah we should establish that say it
does sound like a civil matter listening to this and seeing the pictures but I also wonder our steep slope ordinance was already in place and that there must have been geotechnical reports issued that either CMA someone has to look at to see if they complied
with that. I wouldn't be able to say since I wasn't part of the uh application, >> but I mean something that you're looking at if you're going to question this, >> right? If you're going to question it, that would be something to look at >> to see if they exist. >> Okay. So, have we finished discussion?
We have a motion on the floor. If I could uh council president, just as a point of order, I would recommend not voting it down and not approving it if you don't want to uh approve it tonight. I would postpone the motion to approve to the next meeting. So, I would make
someone can make a new motion to postpone this approval till the next meet council meeting. >> Okay? >> Because then we're not saying we're denying this. We're voting it down. We're just saying we're putting this off till the next meeting. >> Okay? Did you guys hear that? I know you were talking. Did you hear >> Do I need That's tableabling it. Do I need
>> It's tableling it, but you can discuss it. If you if you say I'm postponing it to X date, you can discuss that. Just tableabling it is right now. We got a vote on it. You can do a motion to table if you'd prefer to do that, too. >> But I made a motion to approve it. So >> So if someone
>> moves to You can withdraw it if you want >> or someone can motion to put it off to the next meeting or >> I'll resend my approval motion. Second >> and then I'll make a motion to
>> move it to the next meeting. >> I'll second that. >> Um, >> is there any further discussion? >> Well, the only the only further discussion is that I really would like the homeowner to be involved in this process. >> Well, I would I would I would
>> uh what exactly what exactly is it? >> Yes. >> What exactly is it that I'm being asked to do or what is it that you're looking for? Because if it is indeed a civil matter, I don't think yeah, >> it is appropriate for the township to be involved or us being sending our
say this consulting professional that works on behalf of the township to be involved on this. >> Yeah, you got you got to let legal decide that. >> I think we're agreed on that. I think legal has to weigh in on whether we even have a role in this. Uh
I think that's what we need to be the first step and then we'll see where we go from there. Right. Does that >> There was clear concern before this happened that that what happened would happen >> and now it happened. Good.
>> So, >> allegedly, >> well, allegedly it happened and now I I'd like to know what the liability is for the um storage uh company >> and we need a answer that I'm
>> but somebody needs to review and make sure the steep slope ordinance is >> follow. Whose job is it to do this now after the fact? All I can do is request the records for this application when it was approved from the planning or something and see exactly what was
approved and have, you know, an legal department. >> That's why you hold this money because if the steep slope ordinance was not followed, then they're liable to fix some of the problems, right? >> Okay, guys. Uh, we have spent way too much time on this. We have a motion to
reconsider at the next council meeting. Is that what you wanted to do? >> Yes. >> Okay. to postpone if >> and you second it. Yeah. >> Okay. So, we've got that. I I think we've drained this. Let's Let's go to vote, please, Madam Clerk. >> Okay. >> Um, Councilwoman Cesalino,
>> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Stoa. Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries >> to postpone. >> Okay. >> All right. Hold on. I'm so sorry. I'm just making a couple notes. All right.
2:30 >> wasn't referring to the time of our counseling. >> Uh 23025 resolution authorizing the collector of taxes to extend the grace period for the 2025 fourth quarter taxes.
>> How is it not on our agenda? >> I don't have it. >> You got the revised >> in the red. >> Oh, the revised revised. >> Well, that was it. The one she left in there when we got here. Huh. >> Yeah. I think madam clerk, have you have you made copies for everybody? >> I left them earlier as well.
>> Okay. Okay. So, you got the actual draft. >> It was with the calendar and the regendas. >> Right. Right. >> This was the replacement 30. >> So, we've discussed this. We've discussed this earlier today and uh I just flagged this because it looks like
we need to change the first sentence which says municipal budget is not scheduled to be adopted until October 16th. Correct. >> Yeah. >> So, we need to just change that. We're going to need a motion to a amend >> the date to October 28th, 2025.
>> I'll make that motion to amend it to next meeting date. >> Okay. >> All right. >> But I think the rest of this is I think the rest of this is good, >> right? >> And I don't think there's any need to further discuss, >> right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, I want to make a I want to do a vote on that amendment,
>> please. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Sparpa, >> yes. Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries to amend. >> And now I need a motion to approve with the amendment as amended. >> Oh, I have I
have just a quick discussion. >> Well, we have to do the >> I'll make a motion to approve it >> as amended. I'll second as amended. >> Okay. And now you can discuss. >> Okay. Just just just mayor when when this does get resolved and fourth
quarter bill uh goes out can there be a letter to the public in the with with the fourth quarter tax bill >> that you know explaining and then any other pertinent >> how about the sewer the sewer bill the the getting the account numbers for the
usage model. Yeah, they how much for the sewer bill, too. We could ask people for that in a letter >> whenever we do a whenever we do a tax bill and it's a great opportunity to send out a letter to get information. >> We have been asking for the sewer. Um I
think in in most of our tax communications, we'll we'll have a letter for the bill and then we'll have uh um yeah, you're right. when you pay it online, we do request your your account number for uh American Water.
>> Um we'll also put a big blast on the website with the the new date and uh you know, we'll get the word out. >> Okay, it could be in in the letter too because Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay, that was my comment. Thanks.
>> Are we ready to vote? >> Yes. >> Okay, Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Wait, what are we voting on? >> Voting to change the date. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yes. We're We're voting on the No, this we're voting on the resolution to
approve the resolution as amended. >> Yes. >> All right. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council President Kobia. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. Um, Council President, we do have to do the public hearing on the budget amendment number
one. Did you want to do that before we go to the ordinances? >> Yeah, let's do that because there's hardly anybody here. So, I don't know if >> there is a script that I left for you. >> Oh, you did. Oh, I thought you emailed it. >> Yeah. And I also made a hard copy.
>> It would be It wouldn't be in there. It would be in the papers I left. Yeah, it's those papers. I'm just looking at this. I wonder. >> I don't know. That's weird. >> I didn't take it from you.
>> But I do have your email. >> Okay. >> Just got to find it. >> Calendar. Yeah, anytime there's any changes that are made, I always copies at your seat prior to the meeting. So before you put anything down on top of them, just take
a grab and thank you for >> Yeah, that's why I would think it was here, but >> yeah, >> I don't. >> I can make a copy if you like. >> I'll just get the email. I can get my cursor to move. Okay, I got it. And you have yours? >> Yep.
>> Okay, let's make this realistic. >> Okay, >> the meeting will come to order. The clerk will call the role. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> present. >> Council President Kovia, >> present. This is the time for the public hearing on the municipal budget
amendment number one for 2025. The amendment was advertised in the star ledger as required by law on October 12th, 2025 together with this notice appearing for this date and time. A copy of the budget amendment resolution was posted to our website and printed copies are available this evening for anyone
desiring one up at the table. >> Before opening this hearing, I wish to outline the procedure. Each person desiring to be heard will rise and give his or her name and address before speaking. I will recognize one speaker at a time in order of rising as nearly
as I can determine. Address all questions to the chair where necessary. They will be referred to individual members of the governing body, municipal officials, or our adviserss. Questions must be confined solely to the municipal budget amendment before us. school or
county matters are not proper subjects for this hearing and cannot be discussed or answered here tonight. I now declare open the public meeting of the municipal budget amendment for 2025. Is there anyone who would like to speak? Please raise your hand and be
recognized. Um we have a winner. >> Oh my god. Miss Sylvester, please state your name and address and go at it. >> Good evening. Claire Sylvester, 20 Grand
View Avenue. I just have a uh a couple of comments. I just want to say thank you to Mr. Jatiniac for all the hard work he's done. I sat through a great many of the budget workshops and his patience and his knowledge were um very
impressive and I appreciate him taking so much on for the difficulties of this budget process. Um I think everyone should take some responsibility for the uh the length and the depth of of uh the
budget process. But I appreciate Mr. Jatiniac being so um so professional, patient, and um heartfelt in his comments tonight. And
um appreciate all the work that the council, the administration, the citizen budget advisory board did to uh reduce the increase. I know that there was a hope to get to 0%
that was because of other circumstances was never going to happen but um they everyone did a really good job. So thank you. >> Thank you Miss Sylvester. Would anyone else like to speak? >> Observing no further applicants from the
floor. I will entertain a motion to close the hearing. Second. >> Did you move? We moved. >> Yeah, I moved. Um, so moved. >> Is there a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you, sir.
>> She um I just have one question. >> No, please. Not voting on >> Oh, actually. Okay. Okay. Roll call. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. Council President Koviaak. >> Yes.
>> Okay. The motion carries. >> Okie dokie. >> Um, next is >> ordinances on second and final. >> Yes. Uh 2939-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing
chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-32.1 handicap parking on streets uh of the revised general ordinances of West Orange, Rollinsson, Wellington, and 19 McKinley. Is there a motion to introduce on second and final reading? >> So moved.
>> Is there a second? >> A second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Um, yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Council President Koviaak. >> Yes. >> The motion carries.
Public hearing. >> Oh, public hearing. >> Yeah. I'm not sure. Okay. Now is the time for the public hearing for on second and final reading for the ordinance 2939-25 an ordinance and amending and
supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-32.1 handicap parking on streets of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange on Rollinsson Wellington and McKinley. Is there anyone who would like to speak
on this ordinance and this ordinance only? Please raise your hand and be recognized by the chair. You can then come to the uh podium and speak for up to five minutes only on this subject. Do I see any hands? Would anyone like to speak?
I'm seeing no hands. I'm closing the public hearing on ordinance 2939-25. Is there any discussion? Yes, there is. So, here's, you know, and I hate to think this way, but driving down in the
valley the other night and even in my neighborhood. Again, I've seen handicap stalls um without the handicap taggings on them. And I'm going to ask the administration
to make a note to the uh police chief. They're they people need to get ticketed. They need to be mindful and they need to um our officers if they see them they because I'm hearing different things you
know this whole area and I know you do your due diligence you ask what you need to ask for it but you know after that somebody comes it's not on you anymore it's on the police department enforcement and we had all those uh folks come this evening and they're very
stressed and here's some more in that neighborhood And I'm telling you that it really needs to be looked at. Um some of them cuz I've reported few in the past that people have moved and the and the
stall still there and um or whatever reason the person themsself moves. So we could just be careful and make sure it's enforced because it's taking away parking off the street from others who who need the parking as well.
>> Yes. And my understanding is that you require proof. >> Yes. >> In order to >> Yes. >> They come with their handicap from their doctor, their li, you know, driver's license, everything that they got from the DMV and they give us copies of those and then, you know, I even have them
fill out a little form and everything. >> But I think sometimes what happens is because if somebody caught one of their neighbors is that they have a long draw. See, that's the other problem, too. They're asking for the parking from the street and they have plenty of parking in their driveway. So that's where I'm a
little confused. Why do we give these spots out when they have parking in their driveway? If somebody is handicapped and they come and ask for parking, there's no way for me to know, especially if there's a two
family home or multiple dwellings, if whether or not they use their driveway. is the same thing as if anyone who in the valley parks in the street and then their driveway is empty. It's nothing I can't do nor the police
uh you know to enforce them and tell them you have to park in the in your driveway. >> Okay. Well, again, we need to do a sweep to see that people with the stickers are actually in the spots. I I think a lot
of times, I don't even know I'm chiming in, but just from from experience, a lot of times they're for pickups as well. Um they might not even drive, but they get picked up in front of the house and and the handicap spot is there so that they
can be picked up by family member or a dialer ride or something like that. Yeah, we had one incident when I remember the neighbors came to us telling us that the handicap space was not being used and then it turned out that the person who was handicapped
wasn't really the driver and it was basically being used so that they could bring this person back and forth from physical therapy. >> I I know. And though listen, that's why we we do them. But, you know, I I had to report one that had a motorcycle in it.
So, like let's, you know, let's be real here. So, we got to be, we just have to be on top of it. That's all I'm asking because you want to make sure the people who need it are getting the service, but when we find out other people are abusing it. We got to figure a way to
catch the abusers. That's all That's all I'm asking. >> We'll we'll work with the chief and uh see if there is a reertification program. Some towns will do that where they send notices out to all the >> Good idea. handicap spot holders and have them reertify. We can discuss.
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> So, Six McKinley has a very large driveway right next to it. It's completely flat. >> I'm just This is the exact type of situation that my council colleague is
bringing up where people have their driveways and then they get a spot so that they, you know, they're kind of taking over the street and limiting Is there some way some policy that that can be enacted prior to giving them a
parking spot, especially when they have a flat driveway directly next to their house that they can walk right into? >> That's a legal question, right? Is there a legal reason to do that? >> All I can say is that every time that they come, they provide their
information. We go out there and we check if the handicap space is indeed peaceable. There are times when you have a property that have front yard on both sides. I typically pick one that will be feasible to put the parking or others where it is not feasible and all I can
do is provide them a handicap space somewhere else in the street. Maybe not in front of somebody else's property, but maybe in front of like a park or something like that where, you know, it could be used by everyone to address their need for a handicap
space. But it's not just for their use. >> I'm just concerned. I'm concerned about that one house which has a very long and extensive driveway. Why why that one would be given I >> Yeah, there's once again I'm not an
investigator >> right to be to be how do I say this? questioning their need for a handicap space. If they're coming to the office and they provide that they need it, whether it is for them or a family member,
there's no >> and they have a driveway >> in front of the apron. >> Who am I to be telling them? You have to use your driveway and that's why I'm not going to give you the handicap space. Um well that's exactly the kind of >> that's exactly what we're asking um the
dynamic traffic to look at which is that we have to give priority to the houses that don't have driveways >> and you know if it's a reasonable driveway that looks like it's very close to >> the the home and it's walking
uh it's easy it's easy to traverse from the from the driveway to the front Sure. I'm not so sure that that's, you know, that's an appropriate give.
>> Okay, I'll I'll just flag this again. What is the problem that we can solve tonight? I understand there's a problem, but what is the problem we can solve tonight? >> The police do enforcement if people are using spots. It's not something we have to take a vote on or or anything like
that, but it's clear that, you know, the administration should should do this. And uh the mayor had her hand up, so I'm sorry. I didn't mean to jump. Uh Councilwoman Ruden, it looked like you were finished, but >> I think that there should be I think that there should be a better process. I
don't think, you know, they come with a handicap parking sticker. I've heard many times from the residents who are there who are saying that people are having handicap stickers. They get them from their doctors. They don't necessarily need it and their car doesn't move. Except, you know, it's
it's a holding spot for when other family members come back late at night and then they go right into their driveway. So, I do think that there has to be a better process because we're talking about such limited space. Okay, we'll move it to new business and
we'll discuss whether to uh create an ordinance. Mayor, >> just looking up the same address and I think it would be discriminatory if someone comes to you and then you question it. But at the six McKinley, there is in fact a long driveway, but
there's no access to the side of the house and the front of the house, it's a it's a pretty steep retaining wall with a lot of stairs. So I don't I don't know how you would handle that. >> That's why we need I think we need to move into new business and discuss
whether we want to develop an ordinance. I don't even know whether it's existing ordinance or a policy or statute. I don't know. But again, we're not going to solve this right now. What what we can solve is whether to approve this on second and final read.
>> Is there any other discussion? That's >> No, but I'll have a comment and new business. Great, madame clerk. >> Okay. Uh, is there a motion to approve on second and final reading? >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Thank you,
>> Councilwoman Ruden. >> The same thing. >> Councilwoman, I'm sorry. Councilwoman Castelino, >> right now approve. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Koviaak,
>> yes. >> The motion carries. Thank you. >> Okay. Ordinances on first reading >> 2941-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-32.2
restricted parking zones of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. Restricted parking stalls will be established in front of 6 McKinley Avenue, 6 Street, 38 Mitchell Street, and 136 Rollinsson Street for the exclusive use of the residents who are
in possession of a New Jersey MVC disability ID and parking placard. These stalls were requested by the residents of each location and are permissible under New Jersey statutes annotated >> 394-197.7. Is there a motion to introduce on first
reading? >> So, I'll introduce it. >> I'll second. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> 2941, >> yes. >> No. >> Councilwoman Scarpa,
>> yes. >> Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. >> Okay. 2943-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-29.1
speed limits in general 7-30 midblock crosswalks and 7-10.2 stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets on certain days of the revised general ordinances of West Orange. This ordinance amends
chapter 7 subsection 29.1 subsection 30 and subsection 7-10.2 of the revised ordinances. The ordinances the ordinance establish a 20 mph speed limit on Woodland Avenue, Forest Avenue, Ellis Street, and Redwood Avenue on weekdays
between 8 to 10:00 a.m. and 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. in the vicinity in the vicinity of Redwood School when children are normally present. The ordinance deletes a midblock crossing on Redwood Avenue that has moved previously to Redwood Avenue and Canon Street. The ordinance
establishes no stopping or standing zones on Woodland Avenue, Redwood Avenue, and Nicholas Avenue during school drop off and pickup hours where parents have been circumventing the established drop off procedure at Redwood School by parking on neighboring streets and creating a safety hazard.
This change is part of a larger program to improve visibility and safety within the Redwood School Zone. At all other times, the speed limit on these listed streets will remain at 25 miles per hour. Is there a motion to introduce on first reading?
>> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, yes. >> Councilwoman Spa, Council President Koviaak, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> A quick comment. >> You have a comment? >> Yeah, just just real quick. Uh, I just want to thank Miss Kbala. Um,
you know, I my daughter was in first grade with the child that got uh killed uh over there many years ago and it's always just been such such a tough pickup spot there because people just come flying up and down
Woodland Avenue then they try to cut through the other streets and you know just with Target going to you know come our way and I just I know parents in the area because I've talked to um have been, you know, we're worried about that. So, again, we got to look at
enforcement and and just uh hopefully everybody's going to follow this, you know, the slower speed. So, but thank you for your efforts. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> I I want to thank you for doing this so
quickly and responding to the need. Um it is it is really dangerous. I see cars parked all the way up Woodland Avenue, parents getting out of their car. It's just an accident waiting to happen and I so appreciate that you did this and so quickly and I hope that you have the
money to make the signs really soon. I know that's a concern of yours and um let us know. >> All right. >> Okay. Pending matters, new matters, council discussion. We have a matter on Dogwood Green dispensary asking for a
request for a 30-day extension of their cannabis license. >> Isn't it a request for a 30-day extension to apply for >> Sorry. Yes. Yes. >> So, everybody knows it's a one-year
license and uh uh Dogwood is asking for a 30-day extension for them to file. Is there any discussion? >> The attorney is here. >> Oh. >> Oh, the owner. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah. In case you have any questions. >> Yeah. Yeah. I like to. >> Yeah. Could we just get your name? I'm sorry. >> Uh Whitney Oldm. >> Miss Golden. >> Oldm. >> Oldm. Sorry. >> O ha. M. >> Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Miss Old?
>> Uh, the need for the extension. Um we actually have no longer have a need for the extension as our renewal has been submitted. It was submitted last week. So it was more of a formality in that we had a bit of um
clarity issue understanding the renewal process initially and once we were understood and we connected with the clerk we immediately filed our extension or our we filed for the extension and then we immediately filed our renewal documents after that.
>> And are you a new owner or >> No, I'm the original owner. Yeah, I'm 51% owner. >> Okay. because I I I >> there were Yeah, there's a there's a cohort of us. >> Okay. Yes, I remember that. I remember that. >> Okay. And then just so the council
understands, when they submit their documents, the uh the clerk's office forwards them to the board of education, fire department, uh police department, police chief specifically, the fire chief, the health um officer and or
director, and I think that's it. Oh, no, the zoning official. Uh and then they have 14 days where they can come back and make any comments. So, you know, we're in that period right now. So, they couldn't renew tonight even if they wanted to
because we need to give that courtesy of the 14 days for any commentary to come back. So, but they submitted everything um you know, everything was in order. >> Okay.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Best of luck. Oh. Oh. Is it appropriate to ask you about the handicap door or something? >> Oh, is this is this the one? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Can you Sorry. >> I didn't know if it was appropriate
enough or else I would have just asked you right then and there. So, we had a comment earlier in the evening from um I guess from Yeah, from >> Jennifer, I guess. >> I don't know. She's she's obviously been to your uh facility. So my question is
because I remember with the drive-throughs, we don't allow the drive-thrus, but don't you have to be handicapped accessible to come through the front door, there's a whole security process. >> Yes. To enter two points. Yes, there is definitely a security process to enter.
We you enter the building, we check your ID um and then we check your ID again at a point of sale. for our differently aabled customers, wheelchair bound, mobility issues, single parents. Um what
we're I guess if I may what we're tenatively proposing is a pickup window um for the sake that currently ADA um customers or wheelchairbound differently aabled customers have to enter through
our rear staff door be brought through the staff area to the sales floor. So there are there is 100% accommodations for wheelchair bound and other um folks
with different abilities. Um so I guess what we're proposing is just an equitable exper shopping experience for the ADA community. So we had extensive conversations when we had the task force and the whole reason we did not move
forward with that request was because of the security issues um with the facility and you know the whole point you're coming through the front door you're you're getting the you know you're seeing their identifications
and whatnot. So you're supposed to make the front access handicap accessible for them so they can come and go easily in your facility. So I don't know why we're this is an issue now when when you went through with the planning board. Shouldn't though that been addressed
then? when we went through the planning board um and I don't want to I guess maybe this isn't I don't want to be quoted I because I don't remember the exact process but we were basically allowed the accommodation to bring
wheelchair bound folks through the staff entrance even though it wasn't compliant or was I I don't I'm I I would want to yeah I won't I would want to site um have our attorney cite it. But there was a basically we were allowed the
exception to bring folks in the staff door as opposed to >> so so that's a problem because the whole point of >> the whole >> each building and the other store owners because in fairness to them
>> and even the cultivator that was just waiting here all night too. you know they part of it is with your security mechanisms and and so having people come through the back door ID we ID them before they enter
>> yeah but there was a whole if I you know I don't want to get into people need to talk about it but >> exactly >> I mean the whole process was there for >> it was approved yeah 100% our current ADA process was approved and was zoned
and all of those things I guess What we're proposing with um within our new within our renewal or adjacent to our renewal is this pickup window to fully
democratize the shopping experience. >> Well, yeah, I get that. But that's not what the task force and the I believe did not the planning board did not approve that window. >> Right. Right. So, I guess yeah, >> I'm unsure. So, what I'm
given that there's still feedback to come on the renewal and that what we're requesting is that these new SOPs for the pickup window be considered separate from our renewal. I guess
that's what we're requesting at this point. >> Council President, I have a question. >> Yes, please. >> So, Miss, how about in the front of your building though? Um, would it be possible to make that a ramp? We're right by the driveway. There's not a lot of grading involved. >> Absolutely. When we initially
went in front of the zoning board, that was something that we were we had proposed. But our prop our the property that we lease literally stops at the front of our 6 in from the our front doors. So, it was town property >> and
the zoning wasn't approved for a rent. >> Really? >> That doesn't make sense. Yeah, that's >> so they're they're forcing you to be out of compliance with ADA. >> No, they are in compliance. They they were approved by the planning board. What I'm suggesting instead of this
window because that's not going to get approved to look at the front of the shop to make a ramp there. >> I mean, that would be fantastic. >> I don't and I don't know what would be town property on this already. Yeah, that's what was odd about the whole scenario is that we had planned to put a
ramp and then when we got our survey that's not it wasn't our property to add a ramp to. And then I guess if I may ask if and I know that there's um if I may ask I guess as the business owner it was never
we talked about security concerns about the pickup window and I guess as I I don't know what they are to be transparent. So, if that is possible to receive some feedback on that at some
point or at least see the documents maybe from our zoning hearing and what the concerns were. >> The chief of police is the only person that sees the security plan. The attorney doesn't No one else sees it, okay? >> Except for him. So, he would have to address that directly, okay? So, I would
have your attorney, you know, reach out to him maybe and tell him that that you want that specifically um answered. >> Yeah, that would be. >> And if I could just jump in here be, you know, from my memory, this seems so long ago since
>> it was actually about just shy of three years ago. But remember, but even with you know the trucks coming in and drop offs and pickups and deliveries there's a whole process you had again you know confidential you had a whole process
with that and being secured. So to have a drive-through window kind of defeats the purpose of of the other mechanism in place for your security of your establishment. So, it could be something there and we'll let the chief talk to
you and again, but what concerns me too with the planning board uh decision to and I understand their their decision to try to help you as a business owner. It kind of like I'm more concerned why the ramp wasn't done and and how the
access wasn't >> I'm just looking at it. >> Yeah. they did accommodate her through the proper channel because of the whole issue >> with with the security with these with these uh entities. So again, I I'll I'll I'll talk to the chief. >> Okay.
>> But it was all about security and >> Yes. Um Yeah. Okay. So >> yeah, that's why. >> Okay. >> Yes. Again, we're not going to solve this problem tonight. We've opened the Pandora's box, but there's more to be done outside of a council meeting. Yes. Yes.
>> So, thank you very much. I'm sorry I had to stay this. >> No, it's fine. Thank you guys and thank you for your service. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, can I get a motion to approve the 30-day extension? >> She doesn't need it. >> Didn't she do it? >> She did it. She She doesn't need it
anymore. She applied. >> Oh, right. >> She stayed here the entire night to tell us that she didn't need it. >> Well, according to She does need it. >> Oh, >> because I spoke to the attorney. So, I would ask for a motion and an approval of the 30-day extension. I don't know why
>> there's no downside. >> I'll make a motion to extend her for 30 days. >> Okay. >> I'll second. >> Thank you. >> Uh, Councilwoman uh Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Scarpa, >> yes. >> Council President Kakoviac, >> yes.
>> Okay, the motion carries. >> Okay. I >> I just want to just follow up on one last question. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You have to be recognized. Councilwoman, I I I know almost always when you say stuff, it's important, but we we've got to have
some control over this. And I'm the person that's supposed to do this. >> So, please, I'm not just singling you out. I'm Everybody, let's one at a time, please. Counciloman Ruden. >> Okay. Um my my the question that I
wanted to raise is how do we go about re-evaluating this? There are uh dispensaries that have drive-throughs throughout the country. We would not be the first one to do this. Is there some way that this business can be brought back before a
planning board or zoning board to evaluate that? I know we went through once but you know in three years a lot of dispensaries that look very similar to this are doing this successfully. >> Well the applicant resubmits everything
like literally every single document that they submitted the first time around including their security plan and if they have any changes or amendments or whatever and the zoning official does um is asked to review and then make her comments.
So, >> so the applicant should know that she has an opportunity if she wants to revisit this. >> Well, yeah. >> To what? To the planning. >> She have to go back. >> I would I would I would think that the zoning official may make a comment and say, "Yay or nay, it's a good idea or
it's not based on what is in the application and then her attorney can get involved at that point." >> Council, you done? >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Yeah, I'm going to highly advise against that because of the work that we did do at the task
force with um again there's with the pickups like so then if you're if you're going to allow the window then why go through all the rigomearo with the security vans coming with the process they have to go through uh there um and
I'll talk that to to you about that offline because I don't like to talk to security about security online. Um, but that's all my comment for that. But I also have something else for public comment >> for public comment. >> I mean, uh, >> you're about three hours
>> pending pending >> pending matters. >> So, uh, we have we have cleared the printed agenda for new matters. Yes, >> I have mentioned earlier today or earlier this evening that we should
consider uh um modifications to our ordinance uh having to do with uh the handicap parking. So, I have also asked Mr. Burke to give
us a rundown, a status report on all of the ordinances that the council has approved in new business. So, and I think this should be a regular occurrence every council meeting that whatever ordinances we have
requested and approved in new business that we get a status update at the next council meeting on where these things stand and where the next steps are. And I think that will help us move some of these uh some of this legislation uh
ahead faster until things change, you know, in in our uh administration. So, at some point, I do want to address both of those, but it sounds like we have a question or a comment from
Counciloman Castelino who wants also to talk about something on new business. Yeah, mine's Yeah, something else. Not ordinance related. It's for more about a request from the may for the mayor for a meeting. >> Oh, okay. Well,
>> just let me know when you want me to say something. >> Okay. So, shall we address the uh outstanding ordinances that the council has approved in new business, please? Mr. Bur. >> Thank you, council president. Um, so uh there's four different ones that we have
um right now. The tree of heaven ordinance is with uh the town attorney's office. Um the fire pit ordinance, we submitted our comments to the administration. They had a meeting about it. And I believe at the next council meeting, uh there's going to be a presentation by some people from the
fire department on uh concerns about the fire pits. Um the West Sussex Highlands, we are reviewing, we should have our review completed the beginning of next week. Um and the agenda uh ordinance process uh ordinance amendment. Um our
recommendation would be to bring that up without the time frames that were added to it. Um but I did want to clarify with the council exactly uh what process you wanted to do for that moving forward if you wanted to do that without the time frames or if you wanted to change that
process uh some other way. Well, I think Councilwoman Ruden made the the most current amendments, correct >> to the agenda process. >> Yeah. To that to that um >> I really don't remember on top. >> So, seems like so long ago.
>> I'm I'm more focused on the others. The agenda process was one that you you suggested. So, I think that's really your >> Yeah, I I did, but it it got changed while I was >> So, if I if I could, Council President, the way it was drafted and and provided to us was um prior to introduction, each
proposed ordinance requiring or permitting administrative action shall be submitted to the clerk by the council or council member. The clerk shall immediately forward the ordinance to the business administrator, township attorney, and head of the affected department. We think that's all fine. Uh, each of these officials shall review
the proposed ordinance and submit written comments to the township clerk within five business days of receiving it. On the five business days following receipt of all comments, the township clerk shall immediately distribute the comments to members of the township council. So, all of that is fine. We just disagree with the five business day
time frame because so often these ordinances are not simple things like just changing the, you know, cost of a parking permit or something. It's something more complicated that's going to require some review. Uh so putting a time limit like that on it is going to require um people to not immediately not
meet it or have the council take the business up without the review being completed if there's a strict time five business day time frame. Um so we would recommend keeping that process but taking the time limit out or changing it some other way with you know um the
council president suggested like we're doing right now doing a status update. uh you know maybe there's the council wants to add something that there should be a status update on each ordinance for each meeting uh that's pending you know that that's another option. >> Oh yeah we could probably add that there.
>> Okay. So >> please >> um I think that there has to be a time frame. I can see what's going on with the other three issues. Um the tree of heaven has been lingering for two months. It's still with the attorney. Um we as a council have made other changes.
It's it hasn't gone back to the attorney with with R and which attorney? >> The the township attorney, Mr. Tran. >> Okay. So, that's taken way too long. It's a very very simple ordinance. We've all agreed on it and
I've re I sent you the I sent you the revisions. >> Hold on. according to what you had requested. I don't know if you've read it, but I made all of the the changes that you requested. >> Well, we'll talk about it.
>> Okay. So, I just I think that there needs to be a time frame. If five isn't five business days, then then I'll suggest seven business days. That's a week and a half for for the agenda process because I
think there has to be a time frame. I'm seeing that these these ordinances get stuck and we have ample evidence to show that. >> Yeah. >> There also should be a time frame for the attorney. >> What do you mean a time frame will get?
>> Well, the attorney can't just sit on it for the town. >> Yes. >> Yes. It's a sticky wicket. Uh Mr. Burke, do you have any response to that other than you're you're suggesting is that we don't put a time limit on it? >> Yeah, we would just recommend no time
frame because I I certainly understand the council's frustrations with the current situation, but you're amending the code permanently, indefinitely moving forward. And you know, hopefully the current situation gets resolved and then, you know, there's a little bit more back and forth, a little bit more
uh um discussion and and better communication and then this isn't an issue that that you need to worry about the time frames. >> Uh we council >> Yeah, just I council Ruden has the floor, so that's
I want to just make sure she's drained whatever. Yes. I' I'd like to continue on with the discussion on on a time frame. This is just in this is just insane. I' I've been pushing I've been pushing four different ordinances for months and it's
always stuck someplace. >> Well, it's it it again going to motivations really shouldn't go there. But >> I didn't I didn't suggest any motivation. >> You're making a good point. You're making a good point. I don't think anybody just agrees with you that we need to move this forward as fast as
possible. That's actually how this whole thing started. Um but we're going to have to either give it further consideration or do an up and down vote on on a on a time limit. Um mayor, you
had had your hand up. Well, just um with this particular tree of heaven ordinance, I think between five and seven days and maybe we can actually go back and look at it, but once it was suggested, I know that you already have communication from our forester and you
have a lot of communication from our township engineer. So, you know, if we looked at how long did it take them to respond also for you to read all of that. I don't think five to seven days is reasonable because there are other people that have to look at it and then
go to legal. >> Yeah. I again I I see both sides of this. Uh I don't know if Councilwoman Ruden you want to respond any further, but uh >> how do you how do you deal with the fact that four ordinances that I have tried
to move have been lingering for more than two months. It's not that we haven't given comment. The comment is not coming back. There was a fire pit meeting. I was invited to the meeting and then an hour before the the meeting I was told I was not invited. >> I just heard the fire chief is coming in
on October 28th. That's that's irrelevant. I'm saying that there was supposed to be a process to work collaboratively with the council, with the administration, and then an hour before the meeting, we got a notice from Mr. Dateniac, I believe, saying that we
were not invited or Mr. Mr. Raone. >> Yeah, Mr. >> Mr. Mr. Mr. Rivera that we were not inv we were not invited. So, you know, the process that we spent the entire last council meeting talking about working
collaboratively was shut down. So, I don't know. I'd like you to answer how do we move when it has been two months for four ordinances, moving nowhere, and no collaboration after there was a full meeting discussing collaboration.
Why was I shut out an hour before the meeting? >> I don't know. >> Was that your choice? It's >> not my choice. >> Then who did that? That was our office because we should not be having council members meet with the administration like that about the ordinance. You had a discussion about the ordinance at the council meeting. Those comments were incorporated into
the draft. There was a discussion with the administration about the draft. That draft was going to come back to the council. >> In in a normal working government, I've always heard that there is some sort of council contingency working with an administration on an ordinance,
especially one that we are bringing forward. not meeting with the number of council members that would constitute a quorum with the administration. >> It was one person. It was me. >> I I think there were multiple council members on my email invite. There were >> you you opened it. It got opened up to
more people mistakenly you cuz I was going to go and >> so so it would have been too which would not have been a >> but then you invited the resident too. So >> I did not know any that that that this was being closed. where we talked about
having a collaborative effort and I did not invite the the resident. The resident was accidentally on that chain and I explained that to you. I did not invite the resident and I and when I found out she was on the chain I said
this would be a this would be a government >> workshop not not including the the resident. Well, so where we are is, you know, that time has passed and we need to figure out where to go from here. Uh,
Councilwoman Gasolino. >> So, in the spirit of being collaborative, which I know you've always been collaborative, mayor, we need to get there. I mean, the fire
pit ordinance, you know, I was in another meeting, so I it didn't really bother me, but it would what it did it like puts that level of trust because we thought we were going to talk. We were going to get vetted out. Now the the
fire officials are going to come to the next meeting. And I don't know, I just I just think having them and you know, having them at the beginning of a meeting when we have other things that we have to take care of is just not a good use of our time. I
think like that's why you have these little workshops or or us to come to a meeting to work these out be you know just it's just a better use of time because then they're not stuck there at night. We don't delay our meeting.
and there that communication is formed and trust is formed. So I would like you to reconsider that we just meet and talk about the fire pit ordinance before the next meeting be instead of having the fire officials come the and I get it.
The attorneys were there all the township people everybody's on an hour schedule for this meeting and I know we tend to delay the meetings when too many people are there. I totally get that. But you had your meeting. We there should be another meeting to go over the
ordinance with the sponsors of the meeting with that input and that that out there. So we just don't have another another, you know, situation where we're tableabling it at a meeting because everyone didn't have that communication
ahead of time. I think it's a better use of time. Well, can I just ask a follow-up question before I get to the mayor, but um a lot of other townships have committees and they have committees at the whole
and they meet pretty much like the budget workshops that we were doing. We get everybody in a room and discuss this and I don't know whether that was an issue uh for you Mr. Rivera of having you know
I don't know whether it's more than uh you know more than one or more than two council people but if you have that meeting and the other two or three council people aren't there they've missed that too. So uh >> yeah if I could council president that meeting to discuss the ordinance is
really what we're supposed to be doing right now. That initial new business meeting of this is what we expect out of the ordinance. This is what we want. These are the concerns that we're trying to see addressed. You can have a back and forth with the administration. Then it gets drafted by legal. It comes back before you for a first reading. You have
any issues with that, it goes to a second reading or it gets revised and it goes to another first reading. You know, that's that's part of the issue I think is either that's supposed to be a committee meeting or it's supposed to be, you know, right now or as you suggested maybe like a budget workshop type workshop meeting with the whole
council president. Right. So I before the mayor uh speaks um >> well I'll just set that aside. Go ahead, mayor. >> Uh well I was what I was going to say is that by having the chief here I think that's the collaboration you were looking for between the information that
I received at open office hours that was all shared with everyone um that had to go to the fire chief uh for them to review. we found out about the state ordinances, county ordinances. So, it takes a while for them to compile all
that. So, that's why I thought that the way to resolve it now that all the input, all the emails that went back and forth, you have the fire chief come in and give the presentation and explain >> what they came up with >> what they came up with. Right. So, that was the collaboration that you're
talking about. >> Everyone did weigh it. >> Council Garo. >> Yeah. In our form of government, can't the council president have uh sub subcommittees on different things? >> Oh yeah. Well, it's allowed. >> And this is what we should we should be having these subcommittees on these
various topics so that we can be much more effective and collaborative and efficient. >> Our ordinance only allows committees of the whole. Mhm. >> So you don't you're not allowed a lot of uh Faulner
under different uh uh charters have committees but we are not allowed under our ordinance to have anything other than committees of the whole. So that's just basically the budget workshop when we're doing budget workshop. So if that's what you're saying, uh we c we
can have these committees of the whole and uh certainly if somebody wants to take one of the council members wants to take a particular area and informally agree to it, you you could have that happen. But under our
under our uh charter and under our ordinances, we can only meet as committees of the whole. So if you want to you want to try that, we we can certainly try that. the the issue to me and I've said this before is that there
is a great deal of trust that is missing in the relationship and uh I don't know how you fix that except to everybody move together into a process that everybody likes and everybody is satisfied with but we're not getting
there we are we are stuck we are stuck and uh we're not going to address the issue of of trust until we I don't know settle the litigation. But go ahead. >> The obvious um problem is that we are not working collaboratively and we don't
have all the decision makers in a room. So if we had a committee as a whole of a whole, wouldn't that solve that problem where we would be able to have an opportunity to get all of the people in the room and talk? >> Yeah. >> So I think that's maybe what needs to be done.
>> Yes. But the problem with committee of the whole is it has to be a publicly noticed meeting. So we're not going to sit around in a in the conference room. We're going to have to do it here or we're going to have to find an exception to the open public meetings act in order
to meet uh in executive session. And uh please >> can you cite the code which says that we can't meet with committee because I'm not seeing that >> there's there's nothing allowed in our in our rules of council >> in the Faulner act. It does not it does not prevent us from meeting with
committee. So So what you're basically saying is that this meeting that we have set up that I was invited to for a team's meeting to discuss the Rollinsson, I'm not allowed to go there. >> Yeah. No, >> that's not what I'm saying. It's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying
it doesn't allow us to have a committees of a of of three people or two people. It doesn't it it doesn't say that. All it says is committee of the committee of the whole, which means everybody. That's what it says. Now, maybe we can
change the ordinance if that's what you think we should do, but that's that's where it is. The the the issue the issue is that the council can only act take a step as a whole. We're all
individuals but we only are moving forward or effective as a whole. And that's sort of reflected in our ordinance which says you can have these other meetings that aren't really council meetings but they're committees of the whole and you can you can do it
that way. But that it we it doesn't allow two or three people to get together and and do this. Mayor, >> well, don't you think we followed that process? You put the let you just stay on any one of those ordinances. You put it on for pending matters. It was
discussed. Everyone heard what you were discussing. We took notes and then worked with the professionals. if it wasn't the engineer or the forester or the fire chief or whatever was pertaining to the ordinances that were being proposed. That is the collaboration. I mean, it's
one thing if you want to sit in a room or in a Zoom meeting, but I've tried to get all of you together to do a meeting and that's kind of impossible to do that. So, >> well, Councilwoman Ruden is bringing up a situation where she apparently was
invited and then disinvited. So I think that's part of why you're saying the collaboration and the time limits are needed. So uh >> well >> so so the so the question comes back on
the ordinance that we're discussing whether it should be time limits or not and uh we need to figure out whether we're going to take the uh our attorney's advice which is to say that there's no
that there's no time limit and then we got to figure out what else we can do to juice the process And the only thing I could think of is just make sure that that we have a accounting every council meeting as to why we're not moving this stuff forward. Um, again, Councilwoman
Ruden is right. A lot of these things have just appear to be stuck and we don't hear anything and uh uh I I join her in wanting to move this stuff forward as as much as as possible, but it's just not moving at this point. And
I think it comes down to trust and we're we're not going to move forward on the trust I think until we get this litigation settled. >> I don't think that this is so much I mean yes trust is clearly an issue with this with this body but but the issue is
that the process is not being is not being followed. We want to be involved when with the with the officials and the um head heads of department to be able to discuss our concerns, their concerns,
get it done, and then bring it share it with our council colleagues. >> Yeah. And you know, >> and that is and that's what I feel we're being locked out of. >> Well, I don't I don't think that that was the intent of Mr. River or Mr.
of of whatever happened there that >> yeah, >> you seem to have been invited but then disinvited. I don't think that was their intention. I I I think they had other other concerns, but um again I come back to are we going to put a time try to put a time limit on and
see if we can vote on it or or not. >> Councilwoman, >> so moving forward and I was I was disinvited to both of us were kicked out of that meeting. >> Misunderstood. Sorry. and and no, no, no, that that that's okay. Um,
but again, the easiest, simplest and and I'm going to talk to the mayor and the administration is let us, you know, if if we're going to go through pending matters, I thought we had a great process where Mr. Rivera took all those
notes, compiled them, and you had you were having your meeting. And that's okay if if you don't want us there at that particular meeting, but there needs to be a follow-up meeting with what you came up with with us before with whoever
the committee we decide amongst ourselves before the next meeting because then it's just she's uh the madam clerk is noticing um ordinances, advertising ordinances and then we table
them and that's a whole another process and and correction notice and cost money. >> So I I think for that reason alone I would like I have no problem with my colleague if we could sit with the fire
chief and and could have a quick conversation with them before the next meeting. there might be something that's not understood on our side that may be picked up and could be corrected before the next meeting and then it you know
then it's ready for first reading. Um I think that would just help the situation. Um but again too and we shouldn't move we shouldn't put things forward to you unless and that unless it doesn't have the approval with pending matters. I
think we also uh need to you know, get it squared away in pending matters before we move it to you as well, so you're not wasting your time on something that we're all not, you know, we don't have the support on. So, I
think that's the fairest way to do it. And as far as timetables, maybe 30 days, >> enough. >> So, I guess legally speaking, you could have two council people in a meeting with the administration, right? that
would not violate. >> That's on the other hand, you could have a committee of the whole uh and have everybody together publicly noticed. It doesn't sound like there's much interest in that. >> If I could, council president, it's the other issue too is is to your point
about the committee, the whole issue is that really these discussions about what do we want in this ordinance and what's the feedback from the administration that should be done in public like this. That's the point of the Opal Public Meetings Act is that we shouldn't be having those meetings with just the administration, you know, in an office
somewhere with the council member. It should be now. This this discussion we're having now about what do we want out of this change to the ordinance for the process for passing ordinances. That's the discussion we're having now and it's in public and we're going back and forth and giving feedback and like this is what we're supposed to be doing.
>> Excuse me. I had to laugh because you weren't here for the cannabis ordinance. That was following the pingpong pingpong ball. >> It was crazy. >> Madam clerk, >> and I just wanted to extend on that as far as, you know, the open public meetings act. If two council members are
meeting with the administration and department heads and whoever they they meet with, how are they getting that information back to their colleagues? Because that's not appropriate to bring it back and to discuss and say, "Okay, we're going to do this or we're not going to do this." That all has to be in
public as well. So there's a a chance there that, you know, it could be a violation. >> Is that correct? >> Yeah. I mean, it would depend on the the facts of how everything's communicated and what what happens. But >> then then we'll just have crazy time up
here every meeting. I mean, there's got to be a streamlined process. I I refuse to think that this is that difficult. Um, >> it's crazy. >> Been sitting here a long time and this is really frustrating me now. I just really feel that that last meeting we
could have been at and we wouldn't be having a discussion now because we would have came to the conclusion either we move the fire uh uh ordinance forward. The problem with this that ordinance in particular is that it you know and the fire chief will talk to us. He feels
very strong that the state statute is strong enough because it's all about enforcement. And then there we go. there's the the you know the ball's coming back to your court mayor because sometimes enforcement always doesn't you know isn't always satisfactory
and and then you know you have an officer goes to a resident's home and the answer is well it's you know we don't have anything on the books okay so then we go to put something on the books and well then that's not good enough so where do we find that happy medium I
think is is in one of these other meetings otherwise We're here all night long getting absolutely nothing accomplished. >> Yes, Council Rud. >> I also find this a little bit absurd because we don't have that whole process
when resolutions are presented to us 4 days before our council meeting. There's been no discussion, no back and forth, no information. we get a fata comple and there's really you know your your questions may or may not be be answered.
So why is there two deliberative processes? >> Because one's an ordinance and one's a resolution. Resolution. You can pass a resolution right now. >> An ordinance. Let's just say an ordinance. We get we get ordinances that have have a lot to digest. We get it in
just a few days with nobody to talk to really. You ask a question. I I had it last night at at five o'clock say, "Hey, you know, we haven't even gotten our answers back." Where's the conversation going on for all of those ordinances? And yet there
has to be such a lengthy discussion when we want to put up something. >> Well, but of course we don't see I'm sorry I I wasn't sure if anybody else wanted to speak, but we don't go through the same we don't know what the process is because we're not part of the process
when when the administration puts together a lot of their ordinances and that's why it happens. But again, it's it's communication and collaboration. Uh those words keep coming up. >> Well, they do. And that's why and even why um Pete Smaldo put up the one drive
so people can leave their questions there for people to answer. And there were time frames on when you're supposed to get an answer. >> Well, >> that's the that's the complaint that the idea that's the theory. Yes, >> that's the theory. That's not working.
and I put in my question Sunday and I didn't get an answer until I reminded at 5:00 on Wednesday to for me to now digest all of all of the pages of of questions that I that I asked. So, Council President, what I was going to say though before I said that
was about um if you have something on pending matters and let's just say the fire pits, then that's the time just the way Zashet sits here and has to answer all these questions about the resolutions have the people that involved with whatever you're asking.
That's when you're having this public comment. >> Yes, I know. But I I I think uh Councilwoman Castelino makes a very good point. If we have to discuss all four ordinances at the same time in an evening, we will be here till 3 or four o'clock. Yeah. >> And and that's why when I spoke with Mr.
Rivera and Mr. Burke, they were saying maybe you guys should think about a committee of the whole >> and discuss this at a different time. >> But it's instead of putting all the time in one evening and well into the morning, we do, you know, one week, one
week we do this and another week, the next week we do this. that time or I'll show up all the administration people that are pertinent to your proposals sitting here waiting to be heard. >> Yeah, we've got a we've got a I I think there's ways to improve the process
because there should have been I don't know why uh Chief Eko isn't here tonight to talk about the fire pit alliance, but we've we've missed that >> because he's scheduled on October 28th. I know, but there's no reason for him to be scheduled October 28th when we have a meeting on October 16th.
>> He couldn't be here. Something the other night. Yeah, he couldn't be here. He wanted, but he had something another >> something. I have a question. Um, I would like to know the council's opinion of the one drive because there is a lot
of work that goes into that and if it's not working then why are we bothering with it? >> I don't know when I I know Councilwoman Ruden said five o'clock yesterday was
when it got on there, but I think it was I think the answers all consolidated were up there before five o'clock. I looked for them. I looked for them >> because I didn't even get a I didn't even get an email that said all the information. >> They weren't there. I sent an email at 5
to to Pete and a few minutes later everything went up. So, no, the one drive is great. It's very helpful. I appreciate the whole building. It's it's it's very good. >> Yes. Um, >> it's just that that when we have
questions, >> we still get it. >> We need to get them answered before 12 hours before a meeting. >> Well, again, the way it was set up, theoretically, it's a it's a much better process in theory than it has been in uh
in execution. We're supposed to have two different time periods for the legislation. There should there's supposed to be a period ending a week before the council meeting that we should be getting most of I I I know you're shaking your head.
I'm just telling you that's what the theory is is to get most of it a week ahead and that gives the administration time to answer and and we can read the answers and then because uh engineering often has shorter time periods, that's
primarily what we're supposed to be getting just before the meeting. But it's it's not it's not working out. And I don't know why, but you know, we had this weird thing. I I thought Monday was a this past Monday was a holiday for town employees and it it didn't turn out to be. So I was right.
>> It was right. >> Yeah, you're right about >> Everybody was emailing. It looked like a regular day. >> Dedicated employee. >> That's what they are. >> Wow. Well, um so I think perhaps we need to be more disciplined. And I say we, I think maybe
everybody to be more disciplined about sending out the memo that says here are your time periods and then trying as much as possible to stick to it because the one thing that just drives me crazy is when we don't get our answers in enough time >> to synthesize and process whatever we're
going to say >> and then to ask the follow-up question from that from the response or or nonresponse. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I think perhaps we need to be clear on the memo um to try to to try to speed this up and uh
and maybe try to if if we're not going to have committees of the whole then try to load up the new business section with discussions of of uh ordinances. Um,
and maybe just having that process where we're talking about them every council meeting will put additional pressure on wherever the the uh uh choke points are. They seem to frequently be uh on the
local side. So anyway, Councilwoman Ruben, >> so Tree of Heaven, you said this is with the attorney. When is it going to be released so that we can look look at it? >> We can send him a followup and ask about it. It's not my office so I I can't tell you. >> So just so that you know there have been
changes on our side. So now it needs to go back to I mean I would like to I would like to see it. Um so can you see if we can get that? >> I will ask for it. I guess if you have changes can you send the most recent
version so that we can make sure that they have most recent version. Sure. >> And the fire pit. I mean, we we have to wait for another two weeks just to meet with with Chief Feekio. Is it possible that Michelle and I can meet with him and
kind of move this along so that we can get it up for first reading? >> I I guess I mean this is the issue is that that conversation is supposed to be in public. >> You're supposed to be having that conversation in public right now >> to say this is our concerns. This is why
you shouldn't adopt it. So just so so this ordinance that that I did not propose which had laid out the whole time frame said that the department heads give us their written feedback. So then what do we do with that from
that point on? You're saying we can't have a meeting with them. >> You're that's supposed to come to the next council meeting have those comments. If you have concerns about those comments, ask those individuals to be here so that they can discuss it with you and have it up for first reading or or not have it up for first reading.
Table it. >> There's really no easy way. >> It really isn't. >> It's like having a baby. >> Can you use half of your meeting to do the counsel of the whole part? Like if we had something that we needed to discuss and we needed to have the
department heads in, can you use half of the meeting to do that committee thing and then the other half to get the business done? >> We'll never get anything done. >> It's 11:30. >> Let's be realistic. >> Committee of the whole would meet separately. We're essentially a
committee of the whole now. What what do the law allows Yes. is is this different less formal uh type of process where you can consider a particular uh function or particular f particular legislations.
>> Uh >> well, if it means we're going to get this done, why don't we have a committee of the whole meeting before the two weeks from now? >> We we can try that. If you want to start meeting basically every week, that's what we would be doing. I I >> it doesn't have to be every week, but
when we have things like just when we have something, >> you know, periodically. >> Yeah. But we've got four We have four ordinances. We're and we we're going to talk about at least one more. So, this is something that's going to happen pretty frequently if that's the way you want to
>> want to do it. You can either stack it on one day and have it run into the morning or we can try to break it up >> or or have an idea. Oh um council >> I just think it makes sense to just get
things done and have a meeting an hour committee of the whole you know on a certain day that week and when all the rest of the people who are decision makers can come in and talk and get and thrash it out
>> if they're grateful >> this this whole process to me is no business could ever operate >> council >> well part of the problem in defense of the admin administration is when they tell you they can't put it into ordinance because it's not
enforcable, you guys push back, you know, so that's part of it. So when they give us their advice and what they can and can't do, you know, we got to respect that, too. And I
and again I'm not I don't want to debate this all night because this is now like you know killing time here but you know there has to be you know reasonable you know there has to be reason on both sides. So when the the like for example
fire chief's going to tell you that he because I talked to him the other night you know they don't have call many calls for this. They've had four calls and he'll give you the stats and all. So you could listen to that information or you don't have to listen to that
information. But again, and that's where the debate, we've been debating this for 40 minutes now. And I appreciate that. So if you want to get into debates and and stand your ground on certain situations, then you have to do in a workshop because these meetings run too
long because ideally what I would do is they met amongst themselves with the administration. It's going to come back to us. Maybe not put on first reading. Maybe put it back in pending matters for review of us to look at it and then give
final comments one last time and and do it that way. I mean, maybe you put in the ordinance, you we we pose to them, they have 30 days to get it back to us, we get on pending matters, and then we we're either ready for it to go the next
meeting or we bounce it back to them or, you know, again, these to do a workshop meeting, you would have to, you know, how many times are we going to make them come out at night? So, it could either be during the day, it would have to be
during the day. That's why mayor the part that's easier is to get the the working group with the town employees during the day but it has to be for a quick hour not hold them up for two hours which happens. So again we gota I
don't know what to tell you is it's getting late and I just don't know what to tell you. >> You know we got to make the uh we got to make the meetings more efficient and I'm I'm trying but I'm largely failing. I I would just like to ask Mr. Diniac how
he's seen it work in other towns. >> So sorry. Um so you know I've seen the subcommittees like you'll have a governance committee which I believe that Mr. Rivera brought up the last time he was here and those typically do move
uh legislation through because you have a small group sort of hash these things out with the department heads or whoever they request to come to the meetings and these aren't public meetings because they're you know there's no quorum. Um
but as council president said and it is in chapter three of the code uh that we we have the committees of uh as a whole. So that option is is not there. It would just be a public workshop meeting. Um
I don't have a solution for this because you know there's obviously a disconnect right now. I think we all realize that with the governing body and and the legal department um you know but I I believe Mr. Rivera when when you know he
sort of pushed back uh you know his reasoning is that he doesn't want something created by the governing body that is not going to stand up to I don't know what would be the right term >> judicial scrutiny.
>> Yeah. Um, so I understand that's why uh the the need for the the legal department to make sure that they're drafting the ordinances and and reviewing that. I don't know. I I I can understand your
viewpoint of like is there a a time limit on these things so that it doesn't just sit by the wayside? But I I think we need to give you our comments when it comes to fire pit and tree of heaven and uh
do you agree mayor you know we'll give our comments and you know whether we believe that there should be an ordinance or not and then I guess ultimately it's up to >> if you want to put it up there you that's right you're the ones that vote on it. Yes, but that already happened. That's
what I was saying that when we had the conversation, the forester already weighed in and now the uh engineer already weighing for you to consider what they have to say. But maybe you say to the legal department not to exceed one month or something like give a time
frame if you said to put a a deadline on it. I just want to say after listening to this, I feel more strongly than ever that all the decision makers should be in the room, the lawyers, the directors, and us, and it should be a committee, and we should get it done. This moving
back and forth for three months is the craziest thing I've ever seen. A business would go bankrupt if they operated like this. The decision makers with all the information have to be in the room. They need to brainstorm. They need to air out what all the problems
are. and they need to be talking to one another and I strongly recommend that we do whatever we need to do to have a committee of the whole with the directors and the legal involved and get this done and >> that's done in public. >> In public I don't care how it's done in
public. >> We need to be in the room. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. One at a time. Council >> I don't care whether it's in public. I don't care where it is if but it needs to be done with all the people talking to one another in the room.
>> Who had their hands up? Mayor. >> Well, >> please. >> I understand what you're trying to do and that sounds like the right way to go. That would be a meeting, but I don't think you're going to come to a reasonable decision even after that meeting because there's still research that has to get done. You're just compiling all the information.
>> But it's like as long as everybody would understand the issues more clearly. But I think everyone did understand the issue. >> No, we don't. >> I don't know what the objections are. I don't know what anybody else is thinking. I have no idea. >> The chief is coming in. And like I said, he would have been here tonight. He's coming in for that particular ordinance.
So So then we'll just wait for the chief. >> Seems silly to wait two weeks, but if that's all >> I don't understand why Michelle and I can't meet with him, discuss what his concerns are, take it back, and discuss it with the others.
>> That's why. How about putting it in? >> You're not allowed to do that. >> That's how you're not allowed to do that. >> You're not allowed to talk to your council colleagues. No, >> you're you're not >> public business. It has to be done in an open public meeting. >> All right. So, we are in violation.
>> What's the big deal? >> What's the big deal? Well, it it is a state statute, but other than that. >> Okay. For an ordinance, not for resolution, >> right? >> Okay. Okay. So, that's Are you listening, ladies? because of ordinance. Resolution's different than an
ordinance. That's why what's that's what you're saying, Mr. Burke? >> Yeah. I mean, if the council wanted to pass a resolution right now, you can pass a resolution from the floor right now. So, it's it's a different issue with, you know, a resolution versus an ordinance. >> I'm done with the
>> Oh, you're changing the subject. Well, I I don't want to get into conversation because it's 11:35 and everybody's tired, but as we're trying to figure this out, we have other pressing issues. I know you guys get tied up with
ordinances. I, you know, I attended the BDA uh meeting and I appreciate the mayor and Megan's on the committee and you know, we we got to like we have to spend time because we need to figure out how
to move public works off of Lakeside Avenue and I wanted the mayor to update, you know, update all of you. Um it's it's very timeconuming because there's a lot of information and you
know in a meeting whether you do two at a time to come in and >> well you just passed the demol >> you just passed the uh demolition of Bleman property so that they can move forward. Uh matrix new world you just
passed that. Um, I have a meeting set up with next Friday with uh D because of our BDA with uh DP because there is a new grant coming out that is supposed to help with demolition. We're not sure the
timing of the grant. This is a conversation uh Mr. Datiniac and I are having that if the um they want Matrix wants to move ahead and they we want to demolish. Now, this is back on Lakeside Avenue. This is the new
BDA on Lakeside Avenue to demolish the Barton Press building. >> Yes. >> Between the remediation and the demolition, that's still close to four to$5 million. So, even if the town were to put that the funding up to do that, I
want to know if the grant that D is coming out with, they said it's about demolition, but >> can we get reimbursed if we do it first? So that meeting is next Friday. It's just a zoom call that's meeting uh next Friday. So we are trying to move ahead.
>> I know but there's a lot more information like we have to get capital budget. We got to get across the parking lot situated. So yeah, I don't want to talk about that now because it's late but whether it's in workshop form there
needs to >> we need to have conversations because we have to get monies approved. We have to figure out how we're gonna get this done in a timely manner. >> It's not till next Friday. So, I would have more information >> after Friday. >> Next Friday. >> Well, maybe we have more special
meetings as Councilwoman Scarpa's is uh suggesting, but this whole discussion in new business started out with whether we should have time frames within the uh proposed ordinance to try to speed up
the process. And perhaps perhaps one of the things we can do is to uh push stuff forward harder and and maybe that's the role of the council president, whoever's going to be next
year, uh to just keep pushing every two or three days say when are we going to get this stuff? When when are we going to do this? And I know everybody in in legal and in the administration, they got a million things to do. And that's part of the process. That's part of the reason why we're not getting this
because they've got other priorities and uh whereas we'd like it to the ordinances to be priorities for us. You guys are running a hund00 million business. So, uh but maybe that's what we try to do and maybe we maybe we get
some settlement of the litigation and things can go back more to normal. Um, so we need to decide what we're going to do on that on that uh uh ordinance to try to speed up the process. Do we want
to do we want to take a vote on time frame or do we want to uh not take take the lawyer's advice say don't put it in the time frame uh and and just try to push this stuff more because I know if I
if I tell myself every two or three days I got to push to see where all this stuff is maybe that will speed things up. I don't know. >> I'm comfortable with 15 days. I think two weeks is enough. 15 >> 15 and it you know if yes few things
have to slide once in a while but most things should be done in 15 days most things are not that complicated >> that that is true but I think uh Mr. Burke has a very good point that that sometimes things are complicated, things are >> that'll be the exception, I think, not
the rule. And >> but if it's in the ordinance that says you got to do it in 15 days, we we don't have any leeway. That's that's part of their that's part of their uh concern because you can't you can't always fit the ordinance process into a a strict
time frame. That's that's their point. >> It's government in the space. Yeah, let's play. >> So, >> not to exceed. >> So, we need to to uh make a motion. Sounds like we have two people who want time frame, two people who don't want a
time frame. >> Uh I guess we can make a motion. Yeah. >> Yeah. Don't bother. >> Let's move forward. >> We could see if we could have a workshop. I think you made our our our sentiments known to the administration
and you know if you could oblige us without having to put you know a time frame on you that would be appreciated so you don't have to continue having these conversations.
And then we need to be more mindful of what we send them too >> um that there's support from everybody too. So, we'll do that in pending matters. >> Yeah, we just we got a lot on our plate now. I think we're going to have to the best way to do it is to throw in some
special meetings. >> Yes, >> we got so much on our plate. >> Hopefully there special meetings soon. >> Okay. So, we will try to move that the process ordinance forward without time
frames and just get the council president to really push hard to keep this stuff moving. >> Yeah, I think that's a good idea. >> Well, it's the best. It's the best one, relatively speaking. Okay. So, do we
need to take a vote on that >> or we're Okay. Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. So, Mr. Burke, I'll call you tomorrow. Okay. Is there anything else tonight? >> Um, yes. Just one thing. I would like to make sure that one member of the public
can come to that meeting because I keep getting emails from Mr. Smaraldo saying that something else and it's and I would just want like to make sure that I can bring one representative of the
community to discuss the Rollinsson issue. the you're you're the decider. Is that okay with you? >> What do you mean? You will answer as you >> talking about the parking meeting on >> Yes. >> Okay. I thought you were already invited
to that. >> I am invited to that. I'm asking if one member of the public can represent the community and be there at the meeting. I would say no because one one person from the community does not represent one resident does not represent the
community. >> There already is a a a representative in that community. That's Joy Bernett. She has been coordinating all of this with the community. She knows the issues inside out. she would be the person who I would
recommend to be the representative and and and she can get consent from the others who were here. Everybody came because of her. >> I I say no. I would say no. >> Why? >> It's a decision that you have to make.
You have to listen. >> I'm sorry. >> You're listening to you're you're going to go to what? to go to a meeting and talk about parking or the feasibility study or all the comments that we just heard today. >> Not talk about the feasibility study, just to have a a continued conversation
on the issues and how we can best address and what quick fixes we can do without waiting for your contract with DT. >> I don't think we're waiting for that because we've heard enough. And I stated myself that immediately after that meeting, I did speak to the engineering
department about doing this full radius on parking permits. That was the main thing. Um, everyone seems to be ignoring the one-way streets, which would provide us with 350 more parking spaces, which is what everyone's asking for. So, I don't know that one person from the
community is going to represent, one resident is going to represent the community. I think it's important to have one person who can then go back to the community and explain what happened and it's really allows them to feel like they're included in the process because
those people none of them were in attendance at the open house and very few people I know it was nicely attended but very few people if any people from that entire area were aware of it.
If I could, what what's the downside having a resident there >> uh >> to shed some to >> sort of perform a liaison to people on her street as opposed to any of us who don't live anywhere near there. It's it's >> and don't know the issues as well as
they do. >> Yeah. Yeah. And she's got a long memory. She remembered me on my first term. >> But that that would be my question. What harm could it possibly be if it turns out to be some sort of trouble? You
know, you have a say because you're you're the mayor. >> And I hear how frustrated she is. So that's why I would want someone to come to the meeting that is more open-minded that can listen because their minds are already made up that for some reason they don't like the one ways which would
provide the parking that they're asking for. So it you need if someone's going to come it has to be someone that's going to have an open mind that would listen to both sides. >> You also need somebody who is an expert and this is not the only issue of concern. There are 10 issues that they
have raised and I outlined all 10 points. We don't have to agree on all of them and and the community may not may not win on all of the issues >> but they should be there to voice what their concerns are and what their experiences are. They deserve to be heard.
>> If I could, council president, that that's why we really need to do these committee meetings in public so that people can give input and it could be all out in public instead of having just one person there as a representative of the public. >> Thank you. >> What's the point of having the working session then? >> That that would be the point of it to
then have those discussions in public so that people can hear it and be aware of it and come to the meeting if they want to come to the meeting. >> And you're having a workshop. you post where it is that um Karen has council members. It has to be a public meeting.
>> We were only planning on having two. Oh, >> can I make >> sure? >> So So mayor, I I think this has worked in the past. I I think scrap the meeting Monday unless you want it for your just make it for your directors to to to
formulate a plan. have something at Hazel Avenue School for the community. >> Invite the community so we could all have the opportunity. Have the police department there, the directors there and >> I would prefer that. >> Yeah. I I And then
>> community meeting >> and and present makes >> sense. and present. Not that you have to have dynamic traffic or someone from the police department to present the information about what you want to do with the oneways and why >> so they can understand how you're
picking up all the parking spots. But by that time when you go have the community meeting, make sure you know there's been contact with SE and Hall with with Satan Hall that you know that
they're taking care of their issues at >> they should be there. I mean at the end representative there from Cat Hall >> has told us we've met with them numerous times that master has told us tow the cars. So, the one person that complained about it being in the driveway, that car
should have been called in and it could have been towed or ticketed, whatever they did. >> The police are not being directed to do that. The police are being told to leave the cars of the students. >> And then they call wait just one at a time. Hold on. Let's let
councilwoman finish and then you >> the story that we are being told is that a student car is is that is illegally parked is they the police then call the school and find out whose car it is and deal with it that way. Whereas if it was
a resident car, it would automatically be ticketed. >> If it's illegally parked, it either gets ticketed or towed. >> That's not what's happening. That's what we're trying to address. Is that >> the response is that it's a public street so that can't discriminate if
it's a student or a resident. That's why I'm looking at parking permits. >> That's what we need. Permit parking. >> Right. >> Well, before we leave tonight, we should agree whether we're going to try to uh >> an ordinance
>> uh create an ordinance to allow uh permit parking. >> Yeah, >> we absolutely should. they've been for decades >> and they create it. We don't create >> That's what we'd like. We'd like an ordinance to to to um allow permit parking in all of the
areas from Rollinsson, all of Rollinsson and then straight across this valley. >> Council President, I what I will do is send you what the chief sent me soon as I asked this question and then that's how we can start this. >> Correct. >> Yeah. I know, but we need to we need to
take action tonight so that we can start that ball rolling, >> right? >> So, >> I don't think it has to be. I think we just get it done. >> We don't need an ordinance to do so. >> You don't need for permit parking. >> No, you do. I think you do. >> You need an or you need an ordinance. >> Didn't do it for any other.
>> Yeah, we do. >> And why not have it? There's no damn >> guys. We one at a time, please. I for no other reason than me, I can't follow four people talking at the same time. So, the mayor has the floor and then I'll call on you.
>> I didn't see that it needed to be the ordinance. I'm just saying that we just need to get it done and we'll have the engineer look at the radius that the brief has recommended and that's it. And then we do
start. So um so there is going to be one and just prepare for it because I'm supporting the the the permits too is you have a lot of multifamilies on that street. So >> the house gets >> it there's going to be some illegal
apartments on there and that could be a way where they but you're going to have push back from some some of the residents. Don't they have to vote or what's in our ordinance? Do we have them vote on if they want the permits or not? Because I believe All Miss We got to ask
Miss Carbala because I believe the other streets voted for it. >> Letington did, right? >> When they get 75% of the people, >> you got to get 75% of the residents. So there is a process. There is a mechanism in place for us. >> Yeah, but that's no ordinance number. The 75 milary number that's been used
for years and years. There's nothing in our ordinances. >> Yeah. Listen, I'm fine with that. I just want to throw it all out there. just be prepared because there's always people that pop up and we go in one direction and then those people come to the meeting then all a
sudden everybody pivots. So I'm just that's why I think the community meeting to hear more people out you should get done sooner than later. >> So what have we agreed to in terms of permit parking or everything on
Rollinsson East? So that will Rollinsson goes down a way right on on the >> way past Alphabet Street and then we need to also have permit parking on the other side where Park Street is and all of those also need to be permanent
parking and there needs to be a process set up whereby if you have a driveway you do not get priorities. >> That's right. We have to prioritize people who don't have driveways. that could be the people who don't have or have >> that's maybe that's why we need an ordinance.
>> And then the other thing is that we need to to change our ordinance so that the parking from the stop sign is less than 50 ft. And that is according to state ordinance and you can do it and you can check that
you're allowed to do less than 50 feet by local ordinance. >> Yes, you can do that. You can do that, but you got to you can't put that everywhere because if there's a curve in the road, I'm going to tell you now because where I live, you come around the bend and those cars are right there.
They should be 50 ft. So, >> well, then >> that's up to that's going to be up to the engineer. I don't want to make a blanket or >> those streets are >> one at a time, please. >> Yeah, that should be up to the engineer. I wouldn't I wouldn't I don't feel
comfortable making those decisions. If she makes that recommendation, that's her recommendation. That's not our job. That's her job to make that recommendation because there's a reason for that. Um, okay. >> So, it sounds like we've got two
different ordinances or that we're now talking about permits and the 50 feet >> stop sign, >> right? We do not want 50 feet. I think I think you can change it to 25 feet or 20. I think it's 20. So, if we can change it to 20 feet, that's that's what
20 ft is still >> we're going to have to look. >> No, no, I know. But let her do that determination. I'm not going to go >> that's that should come from the US. >> Yeah. But but again, >> it comes from us
under the recommendation of the engineer >> because there may be in some situations you want to do it for the whole area. I get that. I'm telling you, where I live, in certain spots, if it was only 20 feet, you're gonna hit that car. So,
that should be up to what she deems appropriate, not what we deem. That's her job. That's not our job. So, that's number one. I am supportive of that, but she has to go make that determination. um appropriate >> in regards to the driveways versus a I
think if you have a driveway um they they need to use it >> and because that but again you like if if I do have a driveway and I have a couple kids in my house and they all have a car
you know I'm not going to tell people they can't park on the street they they're allowed to have urban per house so you can't deny people for owning a property and not being able to park in front of their house because then those people could say, "Well, if you don't have driveway, can you make one on on
your property, too?" So, there's always that argument as well. So, yeah, it's got to be fair and balance across the whole region. But, I think to the mayor's point, they need folks also need to listen because you're going to pick up a lot of parking spots down there by
doing the one way. And I don't understand why I would like to hear from the community why they think that's going to be so detrimental for them. I mean, >> because the people with driveways don't want the extra route around the
block. The the other thing is a lot of these properties down there, as you point out, have multiple residents, have multiple tenants, and the way that they do that is they keep their own driveway for their tenants, but then they can also park out on the street. that that's
what happens. I think if you go around at at 1:00 a.m. uh to a lot of these neighborhoods, you'll see that they're using the driveway, but they're also using the the street parking. >> Okay. >> You see, we can't legislate private
property like that. Tell someone. We're not going to be able to tell someone if they can or cannot use their driveway. >> We're not telling them not to use their driveway. We're telling them to use >> But I'm saying you can't tell them to use them. It's their private property.
>> That's a big problem. And we have to be fair. People who have driveways should be parking in the driveway. >> That's right. >> It's just fair. People who drive it may not be legal, >> but I don't think Right. I don't think we can. But I that's >> You're right. It's fair, but it may not be legal or constitutional.
>> It doesn't necessarily >> work. That's why we need a lawyer whether it's not constitutional because if it's not, that's another whole issue. So, >> if I may, Council President, >> please. >> In order to keep keep trying to move things along, do you want us to look at
the 50 ft from a stop sign and the necessity of an ordinance for parking permits or whether that can be done a different way and whether we can include a drive rate requirement in that? >> Yes. >> In the next meeting. >> Yeah, that would be great. Okay. >> And then obviously we need input from the engineer. She I can't opine on, you
know, the traffic patterns and things like that, but we can look at the constitutionality and the legality of it. >> Okay, >> sounds good. Did we drain this? >> Yeah, I think we got we got a plan. >> Counciloman Ruden's going to catch plane, so we're going to have to She's
all ready to go. >> I've never seen that before. You've had a long day. Okay, motion to adjurnn. >> Yes. >> Second. >> Second. That's all in favor. >> Any opposed? The meeting is adjourned at
12:00 midnight. Um just 10:30.