Good evening, West Orange, and welcome to the township council meeting for August 12, 2025. We are coming to you live streaming from council chambers, 66 Main Street. You are welcome to join us here in council chambers. Uh, however,
there will be no public comment on Zoom, only permitted in council chambers. At this time, I'd like to turn the meeting over to council president. Thank you, Fagan. Welcome everybody. We will uh get started. We may have some dead time during the conference agenda
uh period that we reserve from 6:30 to 7:00. We'll see if we can fill it in with something interesting. But before we go further, we need to hear from Madame Clerk, please. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open
Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The annual notice was emailed to the Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on January 7th, 2025 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025.
Councilwoman Castelino, she will be here. Councilwoman Buden, here. Councilwoman Scarpa, present. Council President Koviaak, present. Okay. Okay.
This is where you mention the pledge of allegiance. Wife follow me. I don't want to pledge. Oh, that's right. You're right. Okay. Okay. He was testing you. Yeah, I was just testing you. All right. So, we are scheduled to do our 6:30 uh
conference start of the uh conference agenda. We have had a uh last minute change of plans and the uh entity that was going to present during the conference agenda is not going to present uh at the conference agenda. So
we will as I mentioned earlier perhaps have some some uh downtime and but I have a few things I can say. I'm sorry Mr. Fagen. I have a few things I can say if you need to fill in some air jet air. Oh, okay.
Okay. Would you want to Are you ready to do that now? Yeah, sure. Sure, we could do that. Great. Thank you, Mr. Bagen. Uh, yes, Council President. Thank you very much. Um because we do have a light conference agenda tonight uh and uh we do need some fill-in time here. I just
thought it would be appropriate for the people at home and for the people here in council chambers who come here all the time and may may not recognize or know the significance of the portraits that they see here in council chambers. And I'd just like to briefly outline them. Starting over here on my left is
uh General George McLaren. He was a Civil War general. Uh he um uh was relieved at command at the Battle of Antidum, September 17th, 1862. First came to West Orange June 26, 1863, just um weeks before the Battle of Gettysburg
and made his home here in West Orange. Opposed to Abraham Lincoln in the election of 1864 from his home here in West Orange. Uh next to him going in line is um General Dwight D. Eisenhower. Of course, he was the sup supreme commander of allied forces in Europe
during World War II. And that is a uh autographed picture given to then mayor James Sharan. James Sheeran was a uh member of the 101st Airborne Screaming Eagles who uh parachuted into Normandy on June 6th, 1944. Uh then we have
President Obama here, and that's a fairly new addition to Council Chambers here, maybe within the last couple years. And that was done by a local artist. Michael Roach, also a member of the uh West Orange African Heritage Organization. Uh Michael Roach is a
talented graphic artist and if you have an opportunity to look at that picture, you'll see that he's a talented artist as well. Uh then we have of course have Thomas Edison. Uh he doesn't need any explanation. Uh then the double portraits on top is James Degman. He was
a West Orange municipal judge. Um and the uh Degen house uh is named after him. Uh and then we of course have a recognized language of President John F. Kennedy who was assassinated on November 23rd, 1863. And he's one of four
American presidents, uh McKinley Garfield Lincoln, who also was assassinated. In the back of the room, we have two longtime um West Orange town servants. Uh Simone Rollinsson was township attorney and uh he served as
mayor and uh on the council for a period of time. Rollinsson Drive in West Orange is named after him. And then in the back of the room, we also have Frank Oconor, another time longtime servant. Between him and Rollinsson, they served over 40 years uh in in service to West Orange.
Um, uh, Frank Oconor is a namesake of Okconor Park in West Orange and, uh, he was a, uh, amateur actor and he was a plumber by trade. And then, of course, we have the banner from 1862,
which is the Centennial Celebration of West Orange. It features the logo of the Centennial Celebration, which happened in May of uh, 1962. And then uh lastly we have the uh Gilbert Stewart unfinished painting uh
reproduction of course uh of George Washington, our first president obviously. And that painting was completed or incompleted in 1796 and was never finished because George Washington passed away in 1799 at his home Mount
Vernon in Virginia. Anytime anybody has any questions about any of the portraits that you see here, uh, please, uh, feel free to reach out and ask me. Uh, James Dgnen is not the namesake of DGEN Park. His brother Bernard Denon, who was mayor of West Orange, is the namesake of, uh,
Denon Park here in West Orange. Uh, Councilwoman Ruden, a question. Um, I noticed that all of these, um, portraits are of the male persuasion. Have there been any great women of West Orange?
Certainly. Certainly there have. Women have played an important role in West Orange and I don't know um these portraits were uh long here before us, but uh I can mention a few important women of course uh and that would be uh we have actually a historical marker on
Main Street, Anna Easter Brown, which is in front of the library. uh that was our first historical marker and she was a founding member of Alpha Kappa Alpha uh which has done wonderful charitable things in this country and when the marker was placed there in front of what
was the West Orange Public Library it just seemed like that that was a logical uh choice because she went to uh the St. Mark School, which is where 80 Main Street is now. And um uh additional research, I actually found out where her house was. And by a strange coincidence,
her house was actually right where the marker is placed. So uh that's um uh that's a very important uh and and the best questions are the questions I can answer. Of course, we have uh um uh Mina Edison, second wife of Thomas Edison.
They were married in 1886. And um uh unlike Mary Stillwell who was Edison's first wife, of course she never lived in Westerorn. She passed away in 1879. But uh Mina Edison uh really drove Thomas Edison to be very community-minded. It's
not that Thomas Edison wasn't community-minded. He just needed a good woman behind him to push him in that direction. So those are just but two examples. I could go on, but I can see I'm getting the dagger eyes from Council President and Kidney. Um great job. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. So
if anybody else has any questions, uh, great. Thank you, Council President, for the opportunity to, uh, share on some of the rich history that's present right here in Council Chambers. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. Uh, also wanted to just, uh, do a brief
summary of where we stand with the municipal budget. As you may recall, we got the budget, we the council got the budget from the mayor in midappril, and we've been working diligently to uh make it more efficient. We have now had, I think, 12
uh budget workshops and we have made significant inroads in making the budget more efficient. I just want to ask uh Mr. Deniniac, who is the chief financial officer for the township, to sort of give us a summary of where we stand and
I'm hoping we're uh pretty close to uh adopting this budget at the end of next month. Mr. Thank you, Council President. So, where we started um the April 12th, I think it
was submission to the council, uh the municipal increase not including the library. I'll talk about that in a moment. Um, contemplated an increase of $243 on the average home. The average
home being uh now uh $615,472. That's after the revaluation, but obviously the township uh has gone through in the last year and a half, two years. Um, so that was uh the increase
that we started with. Uh the library increase was $18.21 on the average home. That is due to the third of a mill calculation based on the net valuation taxable. So as the the property values go up, the library gets
more money based on the state's calculation. Um what did we introduce at? Well, we didn't introduce at a $243.31 increase. we introduced at an $8083 increase on July 22nd. So, you know, we
made significant progress as a group um from April to July and uh in the budget hearings uh since July 22nd um the council has reduced
appropriations by approximately $439,000 to get us to about $53 on the average home or less than a cup of expensive Starbucks coffee per month. Um, if we look at the total tax bill,
because we're just talking about the uh the municipal tax rate, um, we have the school district taxes going up $26327 on the average home. And we're projecting the county's open space and
the county's uh operation taxes together to be going up $5346 uh on the average home. So, we're we're sort of at where the county is right now um in terms of our municipal increase. Uh, of course, what needs to happen is
we're going to do uh budget amendments in September to capture all of the um voted upon reductions by the council. And so we would adopt the amendment in September and then adopt the amended
budget. Um so if it changes from now, we'll update the public again. Um but that's sort of where we stand right now. Um it's a very modest increase um considering the last 10 years of increases.
Thank you Mr. Tiniac. Any questions from the deis? Anything he did not cover? No. But recommendation please. If we need to do another budget hearing and um and we don't have anything else from now until 7 o'clock, I'd recommend
we find a date so we're not doing it after the meeting. Okay, we have it on here. Just also wanted to as part of the budget process, we had a new uh municipal entity this year advising us
on the budget. It's called the citizens budget advisory board. They have done an outstanding job of helping uh the council and and the administration uh to see things perhaps in a different light and made a lot of good recommendations. If anyone is
interested in how uh the budget develops, I recommend that you Google the Citizens Budget Advisory Board preliminary report, which is up on the website, township website, and is also
on some of the major uh Facebook pages. And it's an excellent read. It's only about, I think, 10 pages or so. So, it's not like a 4-hour budget workshop. So, it's much more efficient, but it will really give you uh an idea of the the
caliber and quality of uh volunteers here in the township uh when it comes to the budget. So, we've burned up some time. Perhaps now is an opportunity to discuss council liaison reports.
I do the question. Yeah, whatever's first. I my my report's very short because I'm going to defer to Miss McC uh Amy Mccell uh for the downtown uh alliance report
this evening. So when she gets up to speak at public comment unless you want her to go now um my report will be through Miss Campbell. But I just want to thank her uh Miss Bril uh Mr. Fagan whole team that brought the David
Cassidy marker to to life. um and the team uh of the fan club that came to West Orange. We had over a hundred people visit uh the township and uh spend money at the high, our hotels, our restaurants and she's going to touch a
little bit on that uh true form of economic development and we appreciate that um as we need to attract uh businesses to the township. I spent a lot of time this summer. I was fortunate enough to be able to do a lot of traveling. just got back from another trip and I'm one of those uh folks that
love to hop on a tour bus and go visit a a cool town and uh you know spend money there. So, it's always a lot of fun and uh that's just another way of bringing revenue dollars to the township. So, kudos and I I got to give credit to the
mayor and uh Melanie in her office because everybody worked really hard to bring this to fruition and uh I want to thank them. It was a really cool event. Uh, growing up, uh, with Partridge Family Fan myself, it was a lot of fun. Uh, brought back a lot of great memories
and it was just really cool to I got to also, uh, drive on one of the tour buses and just people, you know, just really loving the beauty that West Orange has to offer and a lot of the fun facts. I have to say, took a few Mr. Veagans uh,
uh, you know, lessons that I've learned through the years. So, I want to thank him, added my own personal stories, which was pretty cool. And, uh, just it's amazing how people just love to visit us and come here to have an event
like that. So, uh, great job to all that was involved. Thank you, Council President. Thank you. And just as a reminder, because of the acoustics in the room, uh that everybody should try to speak as loudly as they feel comfortable doing and speak as close to the microphone as
possible so that everybody in the chambers, council chambers can hear. Uh Councilwoman Scarpa, do you have anything council leazison? I do. Um, of course I want to talk about the older adults advisory board and um,
I want to thank Sheila Lefowitz, our chair, for the incredible work that she has been doing. We have had really educational speakers speaking to us at every meeting and I want to say we have
a zero budget, no money. They've all been people that she has gone out to who are proficient on senior issues. Then there are issues that we felt not only is it important for the board but for the um the the public at large to uh
understand and we had a full house at our last meeting. Uh one of the very exciting things that we are working on for the spring will be a repair cafe. I don't know if anyone is familiar with repair cafe. I go to it in South Orange
all the time. Our friend Arshadiz the our town artist actually is a participant in them in many towns and it's an old uh con Danish concept where if you have an older thing an antique or an old chair or something that has
broken and it needs to be fixed there are um handyman and specialists artisans that will fix it for you for free. And it's a wonderful community building activity to show everybody about sustainability, not throwing out things,
just repairing and working together as a community to repair. So that will be coming in the spring. We've got have many many other programs that we have put forth to Laura Van Djk and the mayor. And uh one of them I will be I've been running some pilots for. The
seniors are very excited about supper club um on which we do some Mondays and we're going to be doing social hour on Fridays and I will be piloting them with some of our programming committee. If
any seniors are interested in joining us call get in touch with me for further information. But the seniors do want to socialize more and these are two venues that we're piloting to prop also propose uh the planning board. Um I think people
don't understand what the planning board does and don't understand the importance it is for our community and how it affects them. They continue to work on so many important development issues. Uh, one of the most prominent now is the
West Ethsics Highland, um, which is actually on tomorrow evening. I would encourage, uh, as many people as possible, to start tuning in to some of these planning board meetings. I've learned so much, not only about storm water development
and flooding and steep slopes, have so much more to learn, and it really is rather fascinating. Um so I encourage people to start tuning in a little more to planning board meetings. Um the importance of this board
um has really really come to issue in a letter that I've gotten recently from a resident and uh she's concerned about the cafe ordinance, the outdoor cafe ordinance that has, you know, she has
been looking for and her residents of her community have been looking for for a while. So I want to read that to you. and she said, "As a resident directly affected by the ongoing noise issues, I am deeply concerned that the ordinance
to prohibit amplified outdoor music near residential homes, something that has passed on first reading, continues to be delayed." The second reading was expected to happen by now. Please provide an explanation. The community deserves answers as to why this
ordinance is not being treated with urgency. We have been patient, but at this point it feels like neglect. We have been fighting for this for years and postponement makes it feels as though our concerns don't matter and
that our right to quiet enjoyment is being ignored. The community deserves answers as to why this ordinance is not being treated with urgency. We have been patient, but at this point it feels like neglect. And um I want to assure her and
all of the neighbors who are concerned about this that it will be coming up. There was a delay at the planning board. Um I am on the planning board when it came up at our last meeting. The chair had asked the members if they had read
it because it had only been delivered to them at that same day and they of course they hadn't had time to read it. So I ask the planning board to ensure that this does not happen again and that we
get that in time for everyone to have time to read it because the residents have been waiting for it for a very long time and there is a sense of urgency. So, I expect that to be on uh the agenda for our next council meeting. And that's what I I I would tell her. The
administration could kind of confirm that that will go to the planning board and that they will be putting it on. And um if that's the case and we've answered that question, I can move on. Yes, please do. Okay.
Go ahead. Um thank you. Um, good evening everyone. I just want to follow up on Councilwoman Scarpa's concern and uh that she received a letter from from residents who are asking why the cafe noise ordinance has
not been moved forward. And I just want to point out that we did this weeks and weeks ago. We passed it again and again. Um, it was on first reading, then it was pulled, then it was put back on first reading, and it should have been given
to the planning board the day after we passed it on first reading. And as Councilwoman Scarpa said, the planning board only received the ordinance to review that morning, basically setting the stage for the um, planning board
members not to have read it. So, I just want to echo her sentiments. This is really a delay which hurts our residents. They have been asking for this since before I got on council and we have been trying to push this forward. So I I also support that we get
this on in a final form ready to go and that it's that it's reviewed again by the planning board and that it's on on the agenda for next next meeting. And I also just wanted to take this
opportunity. I don't have any um board um board alliance uh liaison um reports, but I did want to ask at this point a question that many people have written to us about, which is that there's been a concern about the sewer bill. Uh when
you go online to pay the sewer bill, you are asked to put in your uh water uh account, your New Jersey water account number. When you pay it by mail, you're not asked to do that. And residents have reached out to us and said, "Why is
that? What is this information being used for?" And I'd just like to know from the administration, why is that information being collected? Um, I'll have to talk to the collector. I believe that they're probably trying to come up with a database to marry the
property with the uh American Water account. Um, because that's been a problem in in prior years of that the data from American Water doesn't match up with what we have from a block and lot perspective. So, I think that's
that's that's why they're asking for that. So, is there hope that the sewer bill will be more closely aligned with actual usage going forward? That's I think that's the goal of everyone. I think that's always been the goal. Um, and you know, we're not there yet
because we obviously can't get the American water data to sync up. Um, when we move to Edmonds, they've promised that that integration is possible that they've done it in in in other municipalities. Um, so you know, it's
it's going to be up to, I think, the council to set, you know, new fees and and and sort of change the process from being a per bedroom um flat fee to a consumptionbased program. So, it's
it's a it's a big change, but it's it's probably I mean, it it might be what everyone wants. There's going to be others that go, "Oh my god." You know, now with my water usage, my sewer bill is a lot higher. So, is it going to please everybody? Probably not. But it's it's a probably fairer thing to do than
having one person living in a six-bedroom home paying for, you know, six bedrooms worth of sewer usage when it's just one person. So, go. And can can you please can you please address since not
everybody pays their bill online and hundreds of people come to the office here and pay it in person how you will get that information? I'll I'll find out from the collector if they're collecting that information at the window. Um or you know I guess you
can also mail in your bill and um you know you wouldn't provide that information. I I'll check with the collector because that information was not solicited if you pay your bill by the mail or if you come and pay it by p in person. So half of the residents are concerned why that system was set up and
it's not uniform. I'll I'll check with the collector. Thank you, Counciloman Castelino. So, so just to piggyback on what councilwoman just stated, you know, I'm a little disappointed because we, you know, for
two years now been talking about moving to the system and and so if they're collecting data, a letter should have been formulated and sent out and um because you missed a chance to inform folks of that. So now that's going to be
harder to get that information. I was really hoping at the third quarter tax bill that there would have been a letter to the community uh to the property owners um because that is a great opportunity because you're you know it it won't cost extra cuz it's if you keep
it light um we sent them out before. So maybe fourth quarter we could get a letter prepared by um the mayor if she's willing to do that so we can inform the residents if they need this information and other pertinent information. Yeah, I
think we talked about if there is going to be a communication, it would be in the fourth quarter when when we do the fourth quarter true up in the first and second of 2026 bill. Okay. Yeah. Because it's a missed opportunity if we don't give out information uh in a way that most people
could collect it. Thank you. Anything else? Thank you. Mr. Smalda, did you want to add anything on that? I I think Mr. Diniac covered everything. You know, it is the goal for us to go to consumption base. Um, unfortunately, our
current system doesn't align with with American water. That that really is the issue. So, we we we support it and we would like to get to that also. So, hopefully we can get move that forward and present it hopefully sometime next year. Sounds good. Thank you.
uh we appear to have crossed the 7:00 start time that we're statutoily required to start our public meeting. So I want to uh defer at this point to Madame Clerk,
please. This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, Public Law 1975. The notice for this meeting was emailed to the Star Ledger and the West Orange
Chronicle on January 7, 2025, and published in the West Orange Chronicle on January 16th, 2025. Councilwoman Castelino, present. Councilwoman Ruden, here. Councilman Scarpa present. Council President Koviaak
present. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. The council is now in their public meeting. So, welcome everybody to the August 12th, 2025 council meeting. Uh, those of you who
are familiar with our process know that uh, right after the pledge, we have public comment. But before we do public comment, Mr. Fagan gets up and gives me dagger eyes if I don't let him speak first. He did.
Mr. Fagan. Thank you, Council President. Warm greetings to you, council president, your council colleagues, all the people here in council chambers, those in the zoom audience, and to all the ships at sea. Uh tonight, I'd like
to start remind everyone about the uh Ozac. Uh we have a performance coming up on August 8th. Original work is the name of that. And this information is available at the uh pleasant valleyproductions.org. Uh you can find
all information there. uh about uh ticket prices, availability, uh starting times, and uh information about the performances. I suggest you check it out. Um it's one of the best kept secrets in town. Um you know, working in
town hall, I see this all the time and uh uh people have mentioned to me that they didn't know that it's the law, but in from the town hall in front of um uh Pleasure Valley on Pleasure Valley Way and Prospect Avenue, there's a block the box. Um, and please don't block the box.
It's uh designed to prevent traffic uh tie-ups and uh to keep traffic flowing when it's moving. So, wherever you see these uh this box with the white stripes, and granted some of them are faded and need to be restriped, but um
familiarize yourself where they are and don't block the box for safety reasons. Also on our website is the new West Orange Jitney Bus schedule. You can see all the updates there. And I just wanted to give you a little perspective that the first Jitney uh bus in West Orange
opened uh for service on October 16th, 1974. That's 51 years ago. Mayor William Cucuzi and Council President Sam Spinner are pictured here. And the first driver was Don Busald. And I just think that's kind of funny because his name is Bus
Old. So, uh, and on that first month, there was more than 100 trips and they served more than 200 residents. Uh, and it basically hasn't stopped yet. Um, coming up at the uh, the West Orange Community Band will be at Ozac, speaking
of Ozact on uh, August 20th, 7 p.m. Rain date August 21st. Uh, you can go on the Department of West Orange uh, west.org under the rec department or you can look at Ozac to find out more information. I believe this is a free event and I think
it might say it there, but please forgive me if I misspoke. Um, as Mr. Tunia had mentioned, we have the West Orange Township Council bud budget workshops. Uh, previous budget workshops can be seen online, west.org,
as well as all the uh council meetings. Um, once again, I'd like to remind everyone, please do not feed feral stray cats, feed the wildlife. This information and the reasons why this is detrimental is posted at west.org.
The uh mayor has the next mayor uh open office hours will be on September 4th. I can't believe we're talking September already. Feels like the summer didn't even start yet and here it's over. It's September 4th, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. No appointment is necessary. And the uh
Council Connection open office hour, their next meeting or their next open office hour is scheduled for September 18th. And um once again, this information about uh uh rodent control and preventative measures uh is posted
at west.org. Um yes, rodent control is very important, but uh uh everyone has to do their part in uh helping alleviate the problem of rodents in town. And this information can be seen on the website.
Uh even though summer's winding down, mosquito control, uh there's um mosquito spraying that's being done regularly in West Orange by the county, not the town. Uh but there's useful information that is posted on our website. And uh I wasn't going to include this tonight
about the bear alert because we haven't had a a bear sighting in West Orange in recent weeks, but I did hear on the news last night in West Milford. Now, West Milford is not a neighboring town, but there was a bear that broke into a car. So, uh, apparently the bears, uh,
there's even a criminal element amongst the bears. But, uh, uh, you know, just just be aware, uh, bears look cute on TV, but if you see a bear, um, you know, there's important tips. West Orange.org. Um, uh, this Thursday, there's an exciting event coming up, uh, at the
West Orange Public Library, August 14th at 6:30 p.m. It's the fascinating story of Moving a Mountain, the story of I280 construction. It was 52 years ago. And uh for those that were not aware of it, it actually was a train built on the
highway to move the mountain from West Orange to points west. And uh I'll be talking about that at my presentation at the West Orange Public Library August 14th. I hope to see you all there. Um also uh there's not a blank screen here.
A long um standing member who uh made her presence known in council chambers. I'm of course talking about Rosary Morelli. I went to visit her recently and although she doesn't come to council meetings, she is doing fine and she sends her loving regards to all. Uh also
um John Maroy uh you might not recognize his name, but he's the owner of um uh select West Orange and also chairman of the downtown West Orange lines. He had a near fatal, and I mean near fatal, uh,
motorcycle accident on June 11th. And, um, he spent a lot of time in ICU and in recovery and has a couple steel bones in his body now. And I went to visit him last week and he's doing fine. Just fine. He looks great. And, uh, just for
clarification, that's John's dog. And the dog is the one in the middle, not the one on the right. Um, he does. Yes, he looked uh yes, Councilwoman, I was very impressed on how how how great he looks. He obviously lost some weight, but he he really does
look great. And uh uh some of you might remember um uh Assistant Deputy Chief Tim Ganon, uh who served on our West Orange Fire Department. And uh Timmy Ganon actually came off from Florida and was staying with John for a while, uh helping him out. And uh I went to visit
John and it was great to see Tim as well because we all went to uh school together. Um, you may have heard about this, I'm not sure, uh, but there was the, uh, David Cassidy marker dedication in West Orange here. It was a multi-day
event. And, uh, shout out to Barb and Karen if they're watching because it was these two women who who planned this event uh, or who started to talk about this event to me three years ago. And, uh, I thought they were crazy. And uh as I mentioned in my remarks, I was crazy
for not believing what they could pull off. It was a multi-day event and it was also attended by um by uh Bo Cassidy sitting down and of course that's his sister Katie Cassidy and they um they were here uh to uh to see the mayor
before the event and we had an opportunity to talk to them and get to know them a little bit. And uh I had the opportunity to talk to Bo Cassidy about his grandfather um uh Fred Ward uh who I also had spoken to his father about and uh we had discussed those conversations
and uh uh Bo Cassidy was very uh very interested in that. In fact, he had called me up uh several days after the event and he wanted to continue the conversation. So I'm glad to continue that relationship with Bo Cassidy. And um uh Miss McCandell is here from the downtown alliance and uh council
president with your permission I just like her to speak real briefly to tell of some of the uh metrics because this was a multi-day event and it brought uh some really good things to West Orange. So Campbell is you go ahead and do it Joe. So you want to come up and do it? Yeah, I think that's I think that's fine. There's certainly a direct
connection as long as Mr. Puglesi is okay with uh a few minutes wait. Okay, great. Hi, Amy McCabel with Downtown West Orange Alliance. As Joe said, um the the organizers came to us a couple years ago and said they wanted to do a historical
marker and we're like, "Okay, that's fun. That'll be cute. We all liked Keith Partridge back in the day and we'll do a downtown Thursday in conjunction with it." Fun. Turned out to be three days of really nice economic development. As Michelle said, um I'm just going to give you a couple stats. They brought in
about 150 people from around the world and the country. Um 30% were from what we called local New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New Jersey. The rest were from all over the place including Australia, Switzerland, Poland, the UK,
and Holland. Um so that was exciting. The a we did a survey of them after they left. Uh the we got about 60 responses. The average stay was 3 days. They spent about $200 and mostly we asked them to list all the places and it was Jersey
Mike's, it was Jared's, it was uh 460 Beastro downtown spots, Castle Rock, um uh West Orange Diner, Nicholas Anony's to name a few. There were only like literally two non-West Orange places cited and they so they each spent about
$200. So, of just the 60 folks that that replied, that's another $12,000 in West Orange bucks. Um, they almost all of them stayed at the uh residence in next to the manor. That was about $28,000.
They had a gala at the high with over a hundred people and that was another $12,000. The organizers were really conscientious about spending their sort of planning money um at local businesses. So, they spent about $500
between Supreme Bakery and Metropolitan Plan Exchange, uh $3,000 at Downtown Business, Uptown Inc. and Threads, and I think that might be it. But all told, it was about $56,000 uh in two and a half days spent here.
And we didn't really have to do that much. 12,000 at the Highline. Oh, the Highline, right? The Highline was $12,000 as well. So, uh, and they all said they wanted to come back when we we pulled them. Like 99% of them are like, "We'll highly recommend it." And
they have a Facebook group of almost 700 people, all of whom are like, "We can't wait to get to West Orange. It'll we'll tack it on to our New York trip." So, it was just fun. It was a little we all got happy and I never need to hear I think I love you again for a few years.
And uh Amy, I just might want to add on to that re revenue that was generated the uh $65 for the parking ticket. I got double parking at Colgate Field. Uh but it was a great event and and to your point uh I received email from women in England who have pledged to come back to
United States and to that woman who came from Poland who said West Orange lives in her heart and she can't wait to come back. So uh to Amy's point, it was a great event. Um, so, uh, with that, uh, Council President, I'd like to turn the floor over to my esteemed colleague, Mr.
Plesian. Thank you, Mr. Plesi. We I pushed the zoo, just so you know. Push visits at the zoo. Yeah, I see the the Eagle Rock reservation. So, that's that's great. Thanks for bringing him up there. Um, so Anthony
Paglesi representing County Executive Joe Definenzo. I'll just be very brief. Uh this Friday, our summer concert series continues at Eagle Rock Reservation. We have a Broadway review group coming in. So that starts at 7:30 is a free concert. Uh September 11th
again back at Eagle Rock Reservation. September 11th is a Thursday this year at 8:00 a.m. Um and that is our going to be our 24th annual remembrance of the tragedies that occurred that day. Uh public is invited to attend. And then
finally on Tuesday, September 30th at uh Cody Arena, uh is our annual senior wellness day. Uh we do expect um attendance has been climbing since we started this up again after the pandemic. So we do expect anywhere between 2500 and 3,000 seniors to come
out that day. Um if any senior needs transportation, they can uh reach out to us um at um I'll have to email you the number. I'm having a senior moment. No pun intended. Um and um that day goes
from 10 o'clock till 2 pm. That is also a free event. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Okubi. I also want to uh personally thank you for the county's uh diligence and hard
work to get the pedestrian cross at Conford and Eagle Rock Avenue working again for uh the Orthodox community when they're going to Schul. It I I I know it wasn't easy, but it is greatly greatly appreciated uh by members of our
community. So, I just want to please pass that along to county executive and and the uh county engineer and anyone else who who had a role in that because it's very much appreciated. Thank you. All right, public comment.
I want to confirm that we are all on the same page about how public comment is regulated. As per our ordinance, we recently returned to the practice of public speakers speaking from the podium next to the deis. In order to do this, you need to raise
your hand. I'm going to call on you in the order in which you can speak at the podium. Um, once you are recognized by the chair uh and come to the podium, you can speak for up to five minutes. Please
be concise to speed up the process. Please speak into the microphone and speak as loudly as you feel comfortable so that everyone can in the council chambers can can hear. After everyone has commented, uh, we on the deis may respond. Just want to emphasize, you
have five minutes. You don't have to take five minutes. If all you want to say takes two minutes, that's fine with everyone. It just moves the meeting along. The uh, our ordinance requires that all public comment requires the speaker to
first state their name and address. It also requires that speakers shall at no time engage in any personally offensive or abusive remarks. The chair shall call any speaker to order who violates any provision of this rule.
Uh just as aside, this is not in the ordinance, but council is a place to discuss our differences and often to find compromise to make West Orange an even better place to live. So I urge all of us to treat everyone as they would
like to be treated. You can make your point without cursing or insulting anyone and I will enforce the ordinance with the help of uh uh our officer. Is there anyone who would like to speak at public comment? So I know you are here before anyone. So you you come on
up. I see another hand in the back. Uh m Councilman Waldman, yes, you will be number two. Is there anyone else who would like to speak? Ms. Robinson is number three and Mr. Vanola. So, we've got four set up.
Council President, I'd just like to address the individual sitting right there. Uh, you're okay. But there's a plug right to your right hand side there. Just be aware of that. That's my uh camera feed. Uh, just it has been knocked out inadvertently and it's easy
to do. So, just be aware of it. I just wanted to point that out. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Karen D'Angelus and I live at 200 Mount Pleasant Avenue here in West Orange. Can I just stop you for a second? Mr. Fagan, we can barely hear and we're only a few feet away.
So, is there do we Is the microphone on? Phone is not Karen, slightly better than this microphone, but um only because you could bring this closer to your mouth. Um but you're going to need to Yeah. Yeah. Okay. My name is Karen
D'Angelus. I live at 200 Mount Pleasant Avenue in West Orange. And I'm here tonight to um make a request uh to the council and whomever is responsible for um ordering a new listening device
system. I was here in 2023 and I was given a listening device and I couldn't hear a thing because it didn't work. It wasn't charged and it didn't work. In June, I um requested that um a listening vice device be available for the July
meeting here and the day before I received a call to tell me that it was too statically and it didn't work. So, I asked that a listening device be available for tonight's meeting. And um I've been talking with the city the city
clerk's office uh Karen Carnival and her staff to try to get something so that I can hear what's going on. At best a listening device isn't going to work in this room because of all of the surround sound. So, what I'm suggesting is that
you get a closed caption system because if somebody were deaf, you would have to have a signer here at a a pretty expensive per hour cost. So, um and I I have uh hearing issues. I wear hearing
aids and I really can't hear what you're saying and I have it um pretty pretty high up. So the closed caption is is it would be um either you put it on the the screen there or you have a little device that you give to people so that we can
read what is being said um because it it's just um pretty tough to hear even when you're speaking into the the microphone and um it it it's it's just very hard with all of the noise that
goes on. So that's what I'm recommending regardless of the expense because it's really um uh an issue an ADA issue. Um a reasonable common accom accommodation is I'm sitting in the front. I still can't hear. So um that's my request and I I'm
coming to the rent leveling board in September and October. It's going to be in this room and I'm going to have to present stuff and I'm not going to be able to hear. So, I don't expect that this is going to be done by September because I understand it has to go through the council and then whomever else has to approve it. It has to go out
on bid. But I think that a closed caption system is is a lot more um uh reasonable for those of us who have issues with hearing and if you get any deaf uh residents here because they're not going to be able to understand
what's going on. Thank you. Thank you, Council President. I'd just like to point out that uh yes, of course, our system needs work, but closed caption is available on the Zoom platform. Anybody watching from home uh has the availability for closed captioning on on
Zoom. Thank you, Mr. Fagen. Councilman Waldman, a blast from the past. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Robert Waltman. I've lived on
Connell Drive since 1976 and I've been a homeowner in West Orange since 1970. My family moved here in 1951. I'm here tonight to address what I think are important issues regarding land use
and engineering in the town and to offer some suggestions at how the town can address those issues. First, for those of you who don't know me, let me introduce myself. I've been an attorney since 1970, and I've been involved with land use
issues for over 50 years. I was one of the part of the public advocate team that represented the original Mount Laurel plaintiffs before the New Jersey Supreme Court. Uh, twice. I was on committees in town to revise the master
plan. I appeared before the West Orange zoning and planning board. s on dozens of occasions. I represented the West Arum Zoning Board in litigation. I've sued both boards. I've written articles about land use process and I drafted the
first public advocate ordinance in the state which West Orange was the first first town to adopt. I was a member of the planning board for five years and a member of the council for eight years. So, I'm familiar with some of the issues regarding land use in the state and in
the town. Specifically, uh I'm here to address some issues regarding the ridges in our town. West Orange, as you know, is a series of ridges that uh led to the enactment of the steep slope and tree ordinances.
I've dealt with these ordinances personally, professionally. I've had clients who have included property owners on Ridge Road and the Eagle Ridge condos. Uh more specifically, I've represented objectors to the Satan Hall
athletic field expansion. And 20 years ago, I represented objectors to the development proposed regarding the property adjacent to West Essex Highlands. Recently, I received a call uh from a former client regarding the proposed
development that's presently before the planning board regarding the West Essex Highlands. But I want to make clear I'm not representing anyone with respect to that application and I'm here to speak my own views about some of the issues that I'll discuss. But I'm here as a
result of that conversation and what I learned as a result of that conversation. I was advised that one of the proposed buildings would be 7 feet from the ridge line, which is well inside the 100 foot buffer permitted by the current steep slope ordinance that
was amended in 2022 after the collapse of the steep slope on Northfield Avenue which resulted in the condemnation of an apartment complex. Besides building close to the ridge line, the developer and that the West Essex Highlands project is not
submitting engineering data that's required by the steep slope ordinance so that the safety of the proposed development can be assessed. It appears that the developer is taking the position that they are exempt from the steep slope ordinance because in 2020
the council created an inclusionary housing district which identifies the West Essex track for inclusionary housing and provides that it quote shall be exempt from all environmental regulations unquote of the township.
This, of course, was passed before the Northfield Avenue ridge collapse and the amendment to the steep slope ordinance. Ultimately, whether the later steep slope ordinance trumps the inclusionary housing ordinance will likely be decided
by a court. The issue will be what is the intention of the statutory scheme enacted by the West Orange Township Council. I would suggest that rather than have a court tell you the council the purpose of the ordinance, I
respectfully suggest that this council make its intentions clear what the stat what the intention of the statutory scheme is. If this council concludes that the West Essic tract should be exempt from environmental constraints,
you should say so unambiguously. If however you feel that those constraints should be applied to all trackcts regardless of what is to be built, you should say so. And one could ask, is this really necessary? After all, the 2022 version
of the steep slope ordinance says it quote provides development control for all lands located within the township of West Orange with steep slopes and that quote any ordinances in the township that are in conflict with this ordinance
are hereby repealed. On July 30, 2024, the first hearing in the West Essex application, the chairman of the board of the planning board said, quote, "This time is up." Uh, Mr. Waldman, please, if you can just
finish your thoughts and uh uh as quickly as possible, please. The chairman of the board said that the steep slope ordinance will not apply to this development. The chairman believed he was following this council's intention in saying that steep slope ordinance doesn't apply to
the site. I would suggest that the steep slope ordinance be amended to make it clear that it applies to all sites in town. Also, I was surprised to learn that there's never been an engineering study conducted to determine the cause
of the collapse of the cliff on Northfield Avenue. I assumed that someone council, the mayor of the engineering department would have wanted to know what caused this event, but no one had no one had such a report for it prepared.
Since the slope collapse provides a serious question about buildings so close to the ridge line, we should all be interested in finding out what happened. So I would respectfully suggest that the town that the council authorize a report from the reputable
engineering department company that doesn't do business with the planning board or the zoning board or any developer so that everybody can uh have confidence in the objectivity of the report to find out what happened. Is there something that this council or the
town should be doing or shouldn't be doing to prevent a recurrence of that? What comes to my mind is the pictures we all see in the news of the Pacific Ocean uh houses built on a cliff Pacific Ocean collapsing over the cliff into the
ocean. We don't want to have that happen in West Orange, of course. And we don't want someone to say in the future, whoever allowed this to happen. And I think the council has the ability and the tools to prevent that and look and see whether what happened on Northfield
Avenue, make sure it doesn't happen anywhere in West Orange and make sure that if you don't want that to happen in the West Texas Highland development, uh that you say so unambiguously in a in a amended ordinance. Thank you, Mr.
M. Robinson. Good evening everyone. Moren Robinson, Crestbridge Apartments, 200 Mount Pleasant Avenue, West Orange. I just stood to pay homage
to the West Orange Fire Department. I made a stupid mistake the other day and they came and they came prepared to do business. Um, they were cordial, they were friendly. I said, "Well, I must be
getting dementia." They said, "No, it happens." Okay. And so then this big tall guy came, I guess he's the chief. He came to check to make sure I was okay. So, I just want to give honor,
respect, and kudos to the West Orange um fire department. And the last thing I want to know is when is the ne when when is the next election for mayor in West Orange?
Mr. Panel, I think you're next in line. Is there anyone else who would like to speak at public comment? I see a hand up in in the back on the right on my right. Yes. Uh you will speak next and then there's also a hand on the left on my left. You will speak
after that. So we got three lined up. Mr. Panelo. My name is Joseph Panolo. I am the I live in Essex Falls within 200 foot notice area of the West Essex Highland development. I am the president of WEC
Care New Jersey. The objector in the planning board application 2401 uh approaching I think it's our 18th meeting. I'm getting lost and confused. This has been over a year. Um just quick update on what's happening. We will have
I think the 18th meeting tomorrow night. At that meeting we will present three of the state's premier experts in three distinct fields. One is going to be Jeff Gaul, the president of Princeton Hydro, who's going to present a supplement to a
slope stability study that was in response to a supplement on the eastern edge of the steep slope of the ridge line where the largest building of four, building D is to be placed, does not fit the concept plan, has been moved. And
when Jeff represents his study, you will find that any issues related to stability, safety, risk assessment, I don't know what the the threshold of risk tolerance is in this town or at the planning board for that matter, but if public safety is a
consideration in the presence of that second report and the data that support it, u not sure how anybody proceeds as planned. The next man that will come to speak is a guy named Dr. John Hassie. John is the
u director of the geospatial research lab at Rowan University. Has designed, built, and supports the most current data set for ecological and other environmental and uh criteria
features in the state of New Jersey. His data set is qualified at the Division of Consumer Affairs, the Department of Environmental Protection, Fair Share Housing Council. On Friday, the State Planning Commission
released its 2024 impact assessment. First time I think in 20 years there's an infrastructure assessment coming. John is one of the primary contributing authors to that study. Don't know that he'll get there tomorrow night, but we will. If anyone
were to compare adverse u impact plan adverse criteria for the existing plan that has been presented that is being heard now. It does not meet it meets every criteria of a plan adverse condition. The last person who's going
to present tomorrow night is Michelle Buyers. Michelle Buyers is the retired executive director of the New Jersey Conservation Foundation where she spent 40 years, 25 of them as executive director. The New Jersey Conservation Foundation has preserved more land in
the state of New Jersey that and stewardship to get that done. Open space. Michelle was recently retired and has come to work with us and has been working with us for the past year. And the primary reason is because our objective at
weaker is to preserve this last core forest in Essex County which resides on steep slopes. the last the 85,000 trees and a plan which is designed to put 500
units roads which don't have utility connections for water, sewer, electric, and doesn't have a site plan that includes things like a power substation for eight plus megawatts of power which absent that we're going to trip the whole mountain when when power gets
tripped. Doesn't have infrastructure. I'm not sure anybody understands how costs for infrastructure work and when interconnection requests get made but I would urge somebody here in the town maybe beyond the planning board engineers presented whatever there's a lot of outstanding questions from the
planning board planner and planning board engineer that are unanswered. I have last point I will make is that there I can't tell you how many meetings are because I it's been there's a lot here. This plan, the settlement
agreement between West Orange, the developer, and the condo association, which arguably did not have standing to enter that agreement was first reading April 6th. Second reading approved April 14th, 2020. Two weeks into CO, nobody was alert of what was going on. It was done by Zoom. There's been a lot of
things here. I have had a lot of cooperation from people in this town to help Oprah and get information. The amount of information that is available on the town website for public for the agenda is lacking. There are no minutes. It's the only application in town. It's the most contested, largest development
in town. There are no minutes. There are transcripts which are very difficult to absorb. They're delayed. Up until a week and a half ago, when I spoke here and asked about it, January was the last planning board minutes transcript that
was presented. The developers got a paid court reporter here. It's August. Our first expert testified in February. None of our experts can rely on their testimony without having to listen to audio, which is difficult at this point. Last week, the first half an hour of the
meeting was audio troubled. Verona planning board attorney from 20 years ago and currently came in here and presented a resolution September 25th, 1980 that lock provide deed restrictions over the two laws. Mr. Fenulo. Yes, sir. You may never hear that one because it's not in the audio. Anyway,
thank you for the time. I appreciate it everybody. Stay tuned. We'll be here tomorrow night. Thank you. Lawrence Cohen, 20 Lincoln Avenue, West Orange. Mr. Panella did a great speech. He's great advocate for for property to stay wild in West Orange. And Mr.
Waldron did a great job, too. Let me move closer to um Okay. Shout out to Joyce Ruden and Sue Scarpa. They are doing a very good job in getting a zero increase 2025 municipal West Orange budget. We are
almost at the finish line. Last year at this time, I was campaigning for Ruden, Koviaak, and Rutherford. The main unifying issue uh on residents minds was the confiscatory property tax rate in this town for the average homeowner or
landlord. Please remember public servants who are paid by the they are paid by the taxpayers. This is the most pressing issue. Having watched the council's special budget meetings over the past few months, a few tidbits about seemingly
small habits and traditions of government employee perks stick out to me. And I'd like to mention a few. Um, the township free taxpayer paid gasoline pump downtown is used by some 10 or so government heads who are given the
privilege of a car by us taxpayers. Uh could not these government officials with this perk refrain from filling up on our dime the taxpayer when if you analyze the percentage
uh per uh the percentage per personal use of their car and per business use of the car. The percentage use could tip towards the personal. Same goes for any easy pass town issues. These these town officials are issued easy passes. Um,
this is even more so because West Orange doesn't have any easy pass tolls. You have to go out of West Orange to use easy passes. I think these people should just use their own easy pass. An even smaller but symbolic issue came up about the town employees being issued iPhones.
Taxpayers pay for these iPhones that town employees feel are important perks. Now, after the employees get the free phone, um they've been going on Amazon
buying up quality protective cases called outer boxes on our dime on the on the taxpayers's dime. So, I'm saying um can't these these people who are getting a great perk of the phone at least pay for their own honor bucks? So this is
like a trend and it's it's it's a it's the especially the top officials could set a good example by paying for things on their own from now on, especially since they're very well paid uh in West Orange. Uh okay,
I want uh okay someone say yeah private uh and and private this this issue of iPhones is a big issue actually. Um some people uh in private businesses they they're now finding it it uh there's new softwares where you can uh segregate
your your private phone um from a business usage and then protect it from seepage of you know secrets or important you know data that that you don't want to let out. So you could just have one phone instead of two phones. But for government officials, it seems that they
want to have a private phone in case they're subpoenaed and go to court or something, so they don't have to have their own private phone subpoenaed. So, those are the issues. Um, back to last year's town council election results. Ruden and Croiac were elected on a
strong platform to reduce out of control high property taxes. I want everybody on the the the council to remember that when you get to this finish line, I really hope you reach zero. the zero municipal budget um um increase. That
would be great. It would be it would send a good signal to everybody. Um West Orange has an effective property tax rate more than double our neighbors of Essex, Fels, and Roseland. And no, more than double of Essex, Fels, and
Rosland, and nearly double Milbourne, and Monontlair. To find a worse effective property tax rate than West Orange and New Jersey, you'd have to go to Camdom count county where a bunch of burrows near Philadelphia have home over homeowner effective tax
rates that are more burdensome. Lastly, we pay a lot for police and fire executive and personnel. Expensive contracts are mostly union-made and staffing is based on recommended levels from the union.
Um, does the police union recommendation for how many police we need take into account that West Orange has many gated private communities? Most of which don't get patrolled by West Orange police except when called.
We have so many just 30 more seconds. Please, Mr. Comb, please finish this quick. We have so many gated communities including famous Llewellyn Park which is about the size of Central Park. We also have much parkland free of people. So, how does the police union factor in the
features of West Orange when formulating a figure for how many police per resident? How do they figure out the appropriate number? Please think about that. I think we could cut down the number of police. Thank you. I thought there was another person. Oh, that was you. That was
That was you. Yes. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak a public comment? I see a hand there. Mr. Conn, is there anyone else who'd like to speak? You can speak next, Mr. Con. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Okay. Please go ahead, Mr. Debi. Thank you. Uh Todd Deovi, Bernett
Terrace. Um I'm here to discuss and talk about the uh proposed resolution to hire Matrix to perform um some reporting in connection with the Greenacres funding. Um, looking at the proposal,
it refers to um a preliminary assessment report that was done back in February uh 2019 uh around when we purchased the property. Nothing's been done environmentally
since then. Now, we're being told that an additional uh report is needed in order to qualify for the funding um for the Greenacres funding.
We've reviewed the contract of sale, which basically the township took over the property and waved its rights to go after the seller for any environmental issues. The contract also indicated that there
were six documents which I believe were the sellers documents um that were provided and allowed to be reviewed and maybe even given to the township that spoke to the condition of the property.
The question really falls to the administration. Why hasn't anything been done, excuse me, anything been done since 2019 with reference to this? Um, I would suggest that before you approve
this resolution, which this this exercise needs to be done in order to qualify for this funding, but before you do that, you need to know what you're getting into, which is often not the case with this township. Um,
frequently resolutions are proposed and put in front of the council with very little background information. And this is yet again another example of that. I sus I would request that we receive the preliminary assessment report that's
referred to in the uh matrix uh proposal as well as the six documents that were referred to in the contract of sale. So we can see what we're talking about. We know that groundwater is impacted because there's a reference to benzene
in the groundwater in that matrix proposal. I'm confused why this town continually takes on property that's contaminated and takes on the responsibility for spending that money. Downtown is a perfect example. Somebody
made a deal with Prism to take over the properties that were supposed to be phase 2 and they're contaminated and now we're stuck with that as part of their so-called settlement where we paid them $12 million.
it. I I find this kind of pattern of behavior unconscionable and frankly borders on a on the on negligence and it has to stop and the only way to stop it s seems to
be a change in administration. That's pretty much all I got to say. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Con. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak at public comment tonight? Please raise your hand. Good evening. My name is Richard Con. I
live at 40 Eagle Ridgeway. I'm here to address an ongoing grove of invasive tree of heaven at 29 Mountain Avenue owned by Andrew and Jane Kesler, my neighbors adjacent to my backyard.
This grove is harboring a state declared nuisance pest, the spotted lantern fly, and is impacting my family's quality of life, especially my special needs son relies on our pool for therapy and recreation.
This is the grove of trees of heaven directly adjacent to my backyard. There's over 20 of them here. This is not a seasonal annoyance. We are constantly cleaning honeydew residue, sudi mold, and insect bodies
from the pool and deck. During use, there's always a dozen or more lantern flies landing in the water, disrupting my son's therapy. The state has identified Tree of Heaven as the primary host for the spotted lantern fly and urges its removal. Yet, in West Orange,
this infestation has been allowed to persist. This is a tree of heaven with a swarm of lantern flies all over it, marked by the forester with orange paint for removal. And yet the castless have refused to remove it and the town has refused to
enforce their removal by the ordinance. Here's more of them. Every morning have to clean out the skimmers before my son could go into the pool. This is what I find in the morning and
have to sweep up. This is daily. Well, the lantern flies are enjoying a good swim each morning. Here's this week's take. Oh jeez. Right. This is what I deal with. This is a week's worth of sweeping up.
A few weeks ago, the Keslers and Mr. Kit were in my backyard and observed the tree grove and the spotted lantern fly starting to grow on them. The Keslers told Mr. Kip and myself why they would spray the spotted lantern fly with pesticide. They outright told the
forester that we refuse to remove these invasive traces. To date, the Keslas has not yet sprayed the spotted lantern fly. Mr. C Mr. Kip subsequently said he would have to consult with the town attorney on next steps. And in an email sent last
week, Mr. Kip said the town attorney stated that the town will not require removal of the trees that this tree ordinance mandates their removal. All of you here at the on the town council will copy with my response. Our township forester says the tree ordinance
prohibits removing more than two viable trees or trees on a steep slope. But tree of heaven is not a viable tree in the sense the ordinance was written to protect. It's invasive, alopathic, shallot rooted and it suppresses native growth. The ordinance itself recognize
invasive species as harmful to native trees. On the steep slope argument, the tree of heaven is poor erosion control. It crowds out ground cover, leaving slopes more vulnerable over time. Native shrubs, trees and grasses provide deeper
road, deeper roots and better slope stabilization. The ordinance allows slope removal with erosion control measures and I am proposing exactly that. I then asked the health director to cause a removal under the nuisance ordinance. The health director says the
spotted lantern fire is not listed by name in the ordinance. That's true, but it's irrelevant. Under state law NJAC 22010.2, to the spot at Latin Fight is already declared a an or a nuisance. Our township nuisance ordinance allows the
council itself to abate any condition injurious to health public health and comfort even if not named specifically under the township code. This council, not the just the health director, will declare this grove an infestation and nuisance,
direct the owners to evade it within a set time if they refuse cause removal in a summary matter and recover the cause from the owners. You do not need the cooperation of the health department to act. Tonight, I'm asking you to adopt a resolution declaring the tree of Heaven
Grove at 29 Mountain Avenue nuisance, directing owners to remove it and treat it for spot and land flight within 30 days. authorized summary abatement if they refuse with course recovered as the ordinance allows. I'm submitting a proposed resolution to each of you tonight and respectfully request that
the council either vote on it this evening as a walk-on item or at a minimum direct the clerk to place on the next meeting agenda for immediate action. 15 seconds, please. 15 seconds. The longer we wait, the more this invitation spreads not just to my property but to no but to other homes in
the broader community. This is a clear case where our ordinances give you the authority to protect residents when other departments won't. I urge you to act tonight to enforce our laws, protect our community, and end this ongoing nuisance. Thank you. And I'd like to give you each packet with the relevant
authority. I'll pass and ones from Mr. Moral and I'll email Miss Scar, Councilwoman Scar. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to speak tonight at public
comment? Please come up. Give me Mr. Hi. Can everybody hear me? Yeah. Um, my name is LSE Cabaro. Um, I live at
23 Hunter Road. Um and uh last year my house was um caught fire and is still under construction. And when they assessed the value of the property,
um they uh wrongly assessed it um for like a lot more than what is worth or what it is because um it's still under construction.
Um, so, um, when I went to pay my taxes, I was really in shock to see how how much more I had to pay in taxes, which was over
total four over $4,000 in one shot. Um uh and uh when I spoke to the assessor, he said that I have to wait for counsel to make this uh decision on
on um you know when when you guys are going to um work on taxes. And so um in the meantime, my house could be sold, the taxes could be sold and I could lose my home. And so I would like to know
when council is going to work on the tax situation and um you know uh so that's that's that's an issue. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. Could you just repeat your name and address please? Rose. Your first name is Rose. My name uh it's um 23 Hunter Road
and my name is Loose Luz Co. C U B E R O. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would wish us to speak at public comment tonight? Seeing no one's hands, I'm going to close public comment at
7:58 and invite my colleagues to respond if they would like to. Council President, if I just could quickly um just because there was a number of public comments about potential liability and potential litigation and and existing litigation. Just like to recommend that the council not comment on any of those things in
detail. Um, if you want to acknowledge the people that that came up to speak, that's fine, but be careful about um making comments about ongoing or potential litigation. Thank you, Mr. Burke. Councilwoman Scarpa, would you like to start us off?
Um, sure. Uh, let's see. Let's start at the beginning uh with uh Karen. Um, I think that would be a question of getting a closed caption system or a listening device for the administration. I'd just
like to hear what their thoughts are on that. I'm sorry, who are you asking to respond? The administration if they could address the um feasibility of a listening device or closed caption system, what that might entail and the ADA issue.
So, Councilwoman, we just had a a sound system company come here recently um assess our system. It also assessed our um our our um audio assist program or um system that we have here. We realize
that our system is it works to a degree. It is failing. We need to get a price on that. Unfortunately, the hearing device right now from what I understand is it only works close to the microphones and that's not acceptable to out in the audience. So, we are getting a price and
once we have it, we will evaluate it to upgrade and replace and everything else. So, um but that was just done recently between last meeting and now. Okay. Okay. Great. Thanks. Um uh council, former Councilman Walman, I've heard so much about you from Rosary Melli. Um, I
want to thank both you and Joe Panulo for your advocacy and education about, you know, what's going on in the Highlands. Unfortunately, I'm on the planning board, so I'm not going to comment, but I want to thank you for and
express my continued support for your coming and helping the residents understand the importance of what we do on the planning board and the development issues that go on in our town. Uh, Mrs. Robinson, I thank you for
coming and saying all of your wonderful support for our firefighters. I can't say enough about the kindness and professionalism of our firefighters. As many of you know, I had a lot of interaction with them for three years
when I was a primary caregiver for my dad after his stroke. I rode in that passenger seat so many times and every time I did, I felt like a family member and not a stranger. They are absolutely
one of West Orange's finest assets and um again, I want to thank Chief Beckio and all of them for all they do for our community. Uh Lawrence Co, Lawrence Cohen, thank you for recognizing our tremendous efforts. Councilwoman Ruden
and I are really really hoping to get that to zero. Um I have heard similar sentiments from other residents and it's really nice to know that you really appreciate the hard work that we are
doing. Todd Deovi um once again you are right on the money. I want to thank you for your research and educating uh the public of some of the challenges we face
in our township. I absolutely agree. Um I'd like to table this uh just until we get um a little bit of information perhaps that preliminary assessment report and the six uh documents of sale. Uh we really need to understand what we're getting into. Of course, we do
have to apply for the green acres and we will um but it is important that the council get complete and accurate information before we make decisions. Um Richard Cohen, again, thank you so much for coming to the council. I'm
looking forward to getting all of the information that you've emailed. You are going to email me. I've already looked at the information that you have sent to us and um I believe we do need to do something about your situation. I'll
give it to the ask the administration to comment if appropriate. Sorry, I didn't. Yes, please repeat. Can you please repeat that question? I'm sorry. Yeah, I'd just like you to comment on uh Mr. Cohen, Richard Cohen's predicament
if it's appropriate for you to comment about what we may be able to do to um assist him with a resolution or enforce the tree ordinance. So, um we have had those conversations. It
is been referred to our legal team and as um Mr. Burke indicated because it's a legal matter. It's not while proper to speak at it here at this particular moment, but we have notified our our legal team and I know Mr. Cohen has um sent something to our legal team for
review and that's about as much as I'm going to say about that for tonight. Okay. I'll be public at least. Okay. I'll look forward to hearing how we might be able to assist him. Um Loose uh Cabaro, um I'm so sorry to hear about your predicament. um the fire. I note so
many residents have come to me overwhelmed uh some unable to pay the taxes that you know that they are really subject to right now and coupled with the sewer bill which hopefully will go to the usage model ASAP.
Um I don't understand all the particulars of your situation. Again, can the administration um shed any light on it? I think what she's referring to is we have to finish the budget before the tax um le you know levy can be properly evaluated. But
could you just speak to that quickly? either the CFO or I again I'm not completely clear because you talked about losing your house or I don't know if you're in tax sale but please please please we we we don't
discuss uh in the middle of the meeting if if I could suggest that perhaps at some point the two of you go outside to speak on this if you think it would be helpful if both of you agree it'd be helpful but we we can't have a dialogue here we're just going to let Mr. Ziac
respond and uh we will get you uh the communication that you need. It just can't be done during the council meeting. Please go ahead. So, as a general comment for all of the residents um that were impacted positively or negatively or not
at all by the the revaluation, that third quarter estimated tax bill takes into account the new assessed value of your property. So the first and second tax bill was sent out when we
finalized the budget in October of 2024 and we sent out the fourth quarter 2024 tax bill which tred up the taxes for 2024 and then we said 50% of that becomes the first and second of 2025.
But again, now that that new assessment has hit for Q3, that Q3 bill for many people has been dramatically larger. Um, the fourth quarter won't be as big because again, it's a true up. Um, but
yes, that that Q3 bill was probably a shocker. I know it was a shocker for many people and that's that's a result of of the revaluation. Now, we we sent out an estimated bill based on
sort of the budget that we introduced in April. So, where we're at right now on the municipal side of things, it's looking like it's going to be less. Um, so I don't want to guarantee anything, but fourth quarter
you most of our residents should see a decrease versus what they got in Q3. Um, and then next year it'll be it'll normalize a little bit more because obviously the revaluation has already happened and and the first and second
quarter bills of 2026 will reflect that. Um, but if if you want to speak about anything other than that, you know, you feel free to talk to me or talk to the tax collector. um you know, we'll be happy to assist
you or look at the show you the calculation for your Q3 bill. That might help a little bit. I mean, the dollar amount is what it is, but at least we can explain how we arrived at it. Okay, I've concluded my remarks.
Uh I'm sorry, Councilwoman Scar, did you say you you're finished with your response? Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Who would like to go next? Yeah, council councelino. Thank Thank you, council president. And I'll start off with Miss Cabaro because I I
know you're sound frustrated there. So I guess Mr. Datiniac, my question is and I think this is where I think she was trying to express to us. So the third quarter tax as he explained the tax is set. You were build out. So, what we do
up here uh with that bill h should have nothing shouldn't have anything to do with your bill. Um, and I don't know why you were given that information. Uh, however, I think where she's going is because she had a fire and her property
was damaged and construction wasn't completed. I think that is more the question she was looking for. Why wasn't she uh given some kind of dispensation for for that situation? I I think that's where she was going. You could just nod
your head. We can't talk. But um Okay. I didn't any that has an issue with their home and it's damaged, they would have to put in for a reval or some I mean a Okay. So, he understands now.
Yeah. So that would be something that the taxes Please please please stop commenting from the audience. Please. Yeah. So that that would be something that the tax assessor can adjust the value of the property and I I think
probably what she was told that would that would happen in the fourth quarter. Okay. Those adjustments can happen in the fourth quarter. So once we strike the final tax rate, the tax assessor, and I don't want to speak for for Jacob, uh, Mr. Neman, our tax assessor, but I think
that's probably what he meant would be that the adjustment based on now the depreciated value of the home. Yes. Um, would lead to a credit in the fourth quarter. So yes, you have to pay the
third quarter tax as build. The fourth quarter may see, and I don't know the amount, but may see a significant reduction where, you know, maybe you only have to pay just, let's say it's a $2,000 tax bill, maybe you're only
paying 500 be because of the uh reduction in the assessment. C can whether yourself or Mr. Smaldo or maybe Mr. tomorrow that this is falls under your uh purview, but can someone talk to Mr. uh to Mr. Neman? Yeah, I'll talk to Jacob tomorrow and
reinstate what you know what she should expect. Yeah, I think he un you know I'll tell him it's 2300 in road correct you know he he I'm sure is a breast of the situation and so yeah just to articulate a little bit
better so she understands I don't know why it would be misinterpreted to come to the council meeting for that but we're always glad to help you on any issue but thank you Mr. Yeah, I I I think probably again we need to have the final tax rate and then the
tax bill would get sent out and it would be adjusted at that point, adjusted in Q4 because we don't make adjustments in in Q3 whether it's a county board judgment that reduces a value or a situation like this where you have a fire and and now the property is
depreciated. So, um, I'll get your phone number and I'll talk to the assessor and give you a call. Oh, I like that notebook. Great. Thank you, Mr. Fagan. It's like a reporter.
You look like it does look like reporter. So, so thank you for that and thanks again to our fire department because I'm sure they did outstanding job and and we hope there wasn't uh anyone hurt in in that fire for you and and to your point,
Miss Robinson, they you know they're our finest and bravest our fire department. Uh Mr. Cohen um he had mentioned uh looking at the police uh number of police and officers and that's one thing
um know we we made a lot of reductions with this budget and I do appreciate my colleagues extra time that they put in and all the uh folks on the committee and um you know we were all supportive of that initiative and we're you know trying to get this done because this was
a terrible year with the eval uh reval and a lot of people getting really uh hit over the head and and some people actually a few people did well so I was glad to hear that. Um but at the end of the day we're doing all we can. Mr. Datiniac has done a fine outstanding job
this past year coming in trying to change our systems over uh trying to put new processes and best practices in place. And um you know, as much as all this work is being done this year, hopefully uh there won't be what, like
12 meetings next year. Um I wish our school board would had a few more meetings when they crafted their budget, but that's a conversation I'll save for them. Um but this council has worked really really hard uh to to get this budget down. I thank my
colleagues for their extra time. However, I would not touch the number of police officers or firefighters as we've had um you know, I have to be limited to my comments that were uh talked about uh development projects here in the township. It's no secret we're getting
uh hammered with development projects with this affordable housing rule. Um and uh again, you know, the reduction of any police and fire um is is not a good thing. We're not at our numbers that we were from years ago. And um and once
these you know if any new buildings go up um you know we have a a great EMS uh squad and um that's more folks in our township that uh we have to provide services to. We need to watch that. Um but I do appreciate all the advocacy of
Mr. Panel and and uh Mr. Waldman. It was nice to see you and thank you for your many years of service. I know you worked hard through through the years and your advocacy, but it's been very frustrating, you know, especially when we can't talk about it. Uh I in the beginning of the year did not support uh
the number that was given by the state uh for affordable housing. And that's not because I support do not support affordable housing. I do, but in a in a smart way. And it's unfortunate that the uh majority of these uh units that are
in West Orange are not going to our West Orange residents. Unfortunately, that's the law. Um but it's a very low number ratio. I was very disappointed to hear across the parking lot in the 65 affordable units, uh less than 30% of
our residents were able to secure an affordable apartment for our seniors. And that really was heartbreaking. So, I learned a lot this year and uh I really appreciate all the speakers that come up and teaching us more and um you know when we I got I started the beginning of
the evening talking about that David Cassidy bus tour with all those great fans and there was a lot of people that were from the area for many years ago and haven't been back and um just so sad of them hearing of a lot of these projects that want to infiltrate our
beautiful community and Um, and they said keep fighting because it's it's definitely worth the fight. We have a beautiful community. Our history is is first mountain and uh that first mountain needs to be protected in every which way. And so I'm not going to talk
a lot about that other than we all have to um it's tough times because the state is not making it easy. The state is not making it easy for us. When I went to Atlantic City back in November, I was angry. I left there very angry and this
is ripping up our community and now we're getting sued left and right and it's just it's just so aggravating and disappointing. But, you know, we're all committed up here and we're going to uh work together to make sure we protect
our beautiful West Orange. Um, one of the favorite things uh about that day that I got to take that tour uh was just to um talk to people and famous celebrities making statements about how
David Cassie when he was a young boy talked to, you know, celebrities in LA about how great growing up in West Orange was and it really affected his life and his family stayed at that. And um we want to be able in this community
to always talk that way about this town and I hope we can always uh do that. So we have to keep working hard. Um Mr. Dolby um you are correct. Uh um you know we'll have Miss um uh our director
Kabala ask her a few questions later. Uh but I talked to her earlier today cuz I was dumbfounded about this Green Acres um application and why we had to go back to uh and I understand it because we won't get the funding. We just won't get
the funding and it's it's she'll explain how it's timesensitive and I I get it. What's disappointing was that back in 2019 when we had the report and the findings um you know I can't again I don't know what I can and can talk about u Mr.
Burke could tell me to be quiet um when he feel free to jump in but we had a closed session back in in at that time and in that closed session and talk about it just to tell you where to stop. I'm going to leave it that I felt
comfortable moving forward moving forward and I know m council uh president was in that session so he could attest or not attest. Um but um I felt comfortable with the recommendation made asking questions because that we do
and I have the the minutes of of that meeting uh that cannot be shared but I do know I didn't imagine it that we were made comfortable to to move forward uh with that decision. So I am confident um but there is one caveat and and that's
these deals um are complicated and I know that deal as well as the um deal with executive drive um that one had attached to a tax appeal as well that they uh won Montlair Country
Club had won a tax appeal and part of uh the purchase was they wouldn't move forward with that tax appeal which I think was I I asked Tiniac. I forget what the number was, but I think it was I couldn't find it on my server, but I think it was what close to two million. It was millions. Yes.
Yeah. So, so that had some play in it. So, I know these situations gets frustrating. Um, but yeah, it is it is frustrating and I do understand um after the director had spoken to me today, I will be supportive of this. we got to
get it done. And uh if my colleagues I recommend that they ask her a couple questions so they feel comfortable because uh sometimes unfortunately we sit up here have to make tough decisions on items that we we need to take care of no matter how frustrating they are to
us. Uh with that being said um Mr. Cohen, thank you for um coming to us. I'm not sure if you sent me email. I was away all last week so I have not gotten an off the grid. It was really nice being unplugged for a week. I was
far away place and uh but coming home I I have not caught up to all my emails yet. Uh one thing I will ask, you know, I I got to get more information because I see how many trees um that are out there and to pass this means everyone in
town has to take down trees. I know everybody can't afford to take down trees. So I we got to get some kind of understanding how you know something like this if we create an ordinance um would would work and I know the township cutting down the budget bare bones as we are doing right now wouldn't have you
know wouldn't be able because most times when we go in and we have to take care of something for resident because of an urgent situation unless we have a grant or something um usually we don't get a return on a payment back on something like that and until they sell their
house. we actually have to put like a lean to get paid back by the time they uh uh sell the property. So, we this is going to maybe not be the next meeting. It's going to, you know, we'll work as quick as we can, but there's a lot of lot of things attached and I'm more than
happy to start working on it uh this week. So, sorry if I didn't get back to you. And last but not least, um I guess that's it. Thank you everyone for coming out. I
appreciate you um sharing with us. If I miss someone, I am I apologize and um that's and Mr. Fagan again, thank you for all all your information. It's you've been doing a great job. Thank
you, Council President. Thank you, Councilwoman Ruden. Uh good evening everybody. Thank you so much for coming out and speaking tonight. I think if there's a theme tonight, it really is the issue of selective enforcement. We have a steep
slope ordinance that in some cases when it comes to a huge huge development, we get some sort of determination that the steep slope ordinance will be ignored. And yet we have on the other side a
smaller issue um with the tree of heaven issue which is saying that but in this case the steep slope ordinance will be enforced. So you know what is going on here? Why does this administration sometimes
enforce and sometimes not? And I'd really like to understand how um the chair of the zoning board could say on June 30th, 2024 that the steep slope
ordinance just doesn't apply to 138 acres and development on a very very steep slope. Um the fact that there we have had many issues on steep slopes and thank you Mr. Waldman for again
reminding us about Ranjalin. Ranjalin was a travesty. The fact that this town never really paid to investigate why that hillside collapsed and why which ended up displacing 45 families forever
from West Orange. I have no idea. But I would like to request that a study be made. And I also really appreciate um you calling to our attention to ordinances that we can work on to make sure that the steep slope ordinance
applies across the board in certain areas. Um across the board um we there is an exception when it when it applies also to trees that are considered a nuisance there. That should be an exemption. Now, contrary to what was
said tonight, there is no litigation going on between uh Mr. Con and the township and anybody else in regard to the tree of or tree of heaven um issue. That is not that is not the case. Um, there has been a request to take down
the trees and this council before I was on it, although I was part of the request to to rewrite the ordinance, very clearly said that tree of heaven is not protected in our ordinance. They are
an outand-out nuisance to our environment and they need to be taken down. So why our township is not enforcing that these trees need to be taken down, it's, you know, anybody's guess, but I would like to follow up on
um Mr. Con's request by in in new matters tonight to request that there be more teeth put into our own tree ordinance, which would already requires that the tree of heaven be removed. Um what what I will be proposing tonight
make sure that when these trees which as it as it was stated tonight do not provide very good soil protection are removed they are done in a way so they will not uh easily propagate and spread. So they have to be removed very
carefully and they must be in that area where it is removed there has to be native trees replaced. Um, as far as other areas in our township that also have Tree of Heaven, I just found out today that the township just recently,
actually today or yesterday, was notified that we received a $20,000 grant to address Tree of Heaven. And there are other grants out there that we can be applying for to help remove those trees. Now, I'm a tree lover. I ran for trees. I don't ever want to see a tree
removed. But if it's necessary to protect our environment, then that's what we need to do and we need to replace it with native trees. Uh Mr.
I am so sorry that your organization We Care has to pay thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to tell us what we should be doing and that it is up to to we care to bring in the experts to tell us about our own sto uh
steep slopes and what is necessary for for um slope stability. So, I thank you for bringing that to our town and I thank you for all the work that you are doing to protect our last big forest in West Orange. And we need to protect
other areas that are also on steep slope and also right by a ridge. I want to address I'm just I'm going to switch topics right now. um to land use um I'm sorry to listening
device issues um that were brought to our attention by u Miss D'Angelus. I'm not sure if the administration has consulted with the um division of deaf and heart of hearing in Trenton, but if we have not, we need to because whatever
expense it costs for us to get proper listening devices and proper audio in this in this room. It's a lot cheaper than dealing with a lawsuit. This is a title 2 requirement. It is regulated by the Department of Justice and we need to
make sure that people in this room can hear. Um Mr. Mr. Lawrence Conn um thank you for giving a shout out to us for working so hard on on reducing the budget. We remember when we are in this seat that
we are here for you and we are protecting your but your taxes and we've had to make some really hard calls and it hasn't been easy. Um this has been a line by line approach because we really want to make the budget reflective of
what the spending actually is. And once we zero out a budget item, it doesn't mean that the next year you can't come back to us if you're a department head and say, "Hey, we want to put this on." We will hear what you need and we will adjust. So, thank you. I've I also
appreciate you calling out again the some of the issues that that we've raised here, which is the free allowance of gas to employees of this town who use municipal cars. what it seems like
mostly for personal expense uh for personal transportation. I have asked our um business administrator about this and maybe you can respond to to the public tonight and maybe and tell them
what you have you have told me. The people who have cars are very well paid in West Orange. Why are we giving them easy pass? Especially when they don't need Easy Pass in West Orange. People who drive our municipal cars, if they
are going out on a business trip, put the Easy Pass on their credit cards, ask us for reimbursement. We will give you that. But why should we be paying for every trip you take throughout New Jersey, New York, Boston? Because you
are already using our municipal cars. I have no idea. Um, so maybe this is a this is a time when you can address why so many people have municipal cars when contractually only the fire chief and
the police chief. In our employee rule book are allowed to take cars home. In most other municipalities, people drive their cars here, use a employee car if they require it, and then and then leave
their car, leave the the business car here, and go home in their personal car. Now, I know that there are some safety issues, but for those safety issues, even if there's a fire in town, they can come to the town hall, pick up a car, and then go out to the fire. they should
not be taking them down to the shore and back and we are filling up their tanks as if we are just a filling station for personal cars. So, I'm going to stop right there for a second so that you can address that and then I'll continue on. It's a personnel matter and I'm not
going to discuss anymore. Okay. So, that is to me a lack of transparency. Um, Councilwoman, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's let's just let's just not even get into the argument. I think everybody understands that the argument
is a little bit more nuanced than Councilwoman Ruden is is advocating for because she's a very strong advocate, but we are not going to debate this. We have been debating it in many of the budget workshops and we haven't come up with anything. It's it's it's got to
take a different path if we as a council are going to pass an ordinance uh restricting this usage and uh and trying to get as much information as we can so we can make an informed decision. Great. But we are not going to do it in response to public comment at tonight's
council meeting. And I'm not trying to stop you from saying anything. Councilwoman Ruden, you you go ahead and you can speak as long as you want, but I I I I think it's I think we've heard from Mr. Moraldo that he doesn't want to uh discuss it right now and I don't want to get in an argument about it. So
please please go ahead. Okay. Um moving on. Um in terms of the issue that Mr. Deaui has raised about environmental concerns at um at Rock
Springs. It was kind of shocking to see that come onto our agenda that we are now dealing with another townshipowned property that apparently has contamination and there does seem to be a pattern here
of this township buying land that is contaminated and leaving it for us the taxpayers to foot the bill. So, we will be looking at this later tonight. I know our our engineering director is here.
We're going to be asking her questions um about exactly what you what questions you raised, which is this was pointed out, I believe, prior to the purchase of the um of the land. Um, I've read the
contract also myself and saw that that we were specifically uh we we specifically allowed the township to overlook environmental issues and to
purchase the land anyway. And um why nothing has been done since 2019 when we knew that there was a problem. Um, I know that that the answer to that is that we didn't really we weren't applying for green acres funding, but I
think it's a little bit more more than that. So we will be looking at um the this issue of the contaminated property and I have already requested the six documents that went along with the
report that we received tonight and was already told that we don't have those documents because that was part of the uh Montlair Country Club's assessment. So, I'm going to ask for it again. I'd
also like to get the full matrix report so that we know exactly what we knew in 2019 when we when we purchased this this property. I think that's it. Uh, thank you everybody. I hope I didn't miss anybody.
um some some some people I didn't bring out because I they were the they were addressed by my other council colleagues and also I just I just also want to thank um blanking on your name um
downtown Miss Campbell Amy I'm so sorry what an awesome job you did um bringing the David Cassidy it really it really kind of inspired me to start reading more about David Cassidy and watching and I'm sorry that I couldn't attend those
events, but great job bringing tourism really to our town and I think it's it's kind of opened up a lot more dialogue in terms of what we can be doing in this town and I just want to say great work
on on that project. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. just very quickly because uh the evening is uh is stretching out. Uh Mr. Dangelus, thanks very much for bringing up important subject and I can't tell you how pleased I am to hear that the administration is
considering how we can get decent audio in council chambers. I'm telling you, I will pay my own money aside from my property taxes to get this problem fixed. It's just it it it blows my mind. I'm not going to
I'm not going to go on that. We can't get decent audio in here. So, I am all in favor of this and we should try to do it sooner rather than later so we can get it in the budget and and and get it done. Um because you are Miss D'Angelus, you are far from the first person since I've been associated with this place in
15 the last 15 years who has complained about this and we for some reason we don't seem to be able to get it fixed. I would very much like to get it fixed this time and uh uh and I am willing to invest the money because this is the only way you guys can find out what's going on in your government that that
your taxes are paying for. So anyway, Mr. Waldman, thank you very much uh for coming. Uh I I you made some excellent points as you almost always do and uh we will take this up uh especially this question of the engineering study uh
because we really need to know about that because if there's going to we really need to know what happened with that slide the and the failure of the rock face because we have other situations in town similar to that and we also have the prospect that the
property owners want to come in and rebuild. So, we really need to find out what's going on uh so that we can uh make sure that as you said repeatedly and and justifiably that it doesn't happen again. Uh Miss Robinson, I'm glad
you had a very good experience with the fire department and uh uh and maybe you want to run for council, I mean for for mayor next year. Okay. Uh Mr. Bonulo, as always, you are a very strong advocate. You speak a little bit
too fast for me, but I am somewhat familiar with the issues. Uh uh because I've been here before when you've come in to speak, but anyway, I I think you make some very good points. Uh, and one of the things you've been talking about, I think you talked about at your last
hearing, was the lack of documentation that, uh, is represented by audio and video of the hearings, of the minutes of the hearings, and of the transcripts. And uh this issue is going to come up a little bit later this evening uh because
I want to try to make this I I want to try to get that fixed so that what what the state and what the planning board rules require is what is being delivered uh in the West Essex Highlands case. And
uh so I want to see that done. Uh Mr. Cohen, uh, I agree totally with you that we need, we the council need to balance the needs of what the residents need
with uh, the financial help that we get from from taxpayers. And just to perhaps clarify, the police unions do not determine our staffing needs of the police department.
They do not do that. All right. That's not what happens. Um, I'll just leave it at that. And I don't know whether I needed to clarify that, but but I I think it's important if if I did need to. Uh, Mr. Debove, as usual, you come in with some really great
ideas, some facts, and insights, and we want to follow up uh with that. Uh just so that uh people know, there's a couple of things that uh need to be addressed further at Rock Spring. Uh we're going to hear about this a little bit later
because I don't think the the uh resolution to hire Matrix to look further into these potential environmental problems is is uh factually correct. and we'll get
there uh a little bit more. And I agree with you and I agree with Councilwoman Ruden that we seem to have a history of of not only ownership of properties with environmental problems, but uh the ones that we need to pay for. So, uh, we
really need to look, uh, hard at this and any other acquisition of property by the township. While we are on council, we have got to vet the environmental concerns and make sure that we do not accept any environmental uh, remediation
costs that we don't uh that we're not aware of. Um, this is a new council and and we're going to be a lot uh looking a lot harder at at an issue like this. Um, Mr. Con, I have uh I appreciate you
coming. I appreciate the emails you've sent and uh I I just want to let you know I don't know if this is going to help but I asked on behalf of the council for a legal opinion from our town attorney uh on on a lot of the
issues that you raised and one of the issues you raised is that the council can actually do the enforcement of this. Uh that's something a new concept to me because uh uh the way our government is situated. The enforcement is is
always left with the administration. So for the idea that that the council can actually enforce an ordinance that's new to me and there's other issues that you've raised and hopefully that we will get a uh a speedy and thorough and uh uh
acceptable u legal opinion uh back from the uh town attorney and uh Miss Cabaro, I just want to make sure that you get what you need to to get answers to your questions about your home value. It's it's a crucial issue and uh if if you
don't get it what you need, come back to the council and we'll make sure you do. But I I think you I think you're going to have uh plenty of access. So So thank you. Anyway, let's uh shut this down so we can get on with the rest of our meeting.
Thank you everybody. Madame Clerk. All right. Um, we're going to review the consent agenda. Approval of minutes of previous meeting. We have the July 22nd, 2025 public
meeting. The the minutes look great except there's like some yellow highlighting on on part of one word. I don't know if that's intentional or not, but that's probably not. We can just fix the formatting. My cons I consent. Note that. Okay. Consent. Consent.
Consent. Okay. Um, report of township officers, none. Reading of petitions and communications and bids. We had the fire station number five, maintenance and rehabilitation. And for the bill list, I know Councilwoman Ruden had sent an email
with a couple of bills to be pulled. Um, that was 185537 a Lambo car for $1,652 in collision repairs. 188762 for $237
um for physical exams 1884156 and18525 for herk rentals 188914 for Donna Frio $880 dog park in
July and 184895 realy pro group. Now, some of those some of the questions issues that you raised did get an answer. I don't know if they an answer from the administration. I don't know whether that satisfied you or whether there's any change in that, but if there isn't, we can uh
uh we can perhaps hear from the administration if there's anything that they want to say and then we can try to move forward with uh approving all the bills that are acceptable to everyone. Okay. I I'll make it fast. All right. Um the first thing that I pulled um
18185537 I asked a question about this and I was told that it was voided. So I just that this bill is being voided. So I just want to make sure that you have that down that that bill is being voided. Um 188762
there was a bill uh that Dr. Kelly, who is our municipal um uh physician who was supposed to be doing exams for our personnel, uh put in and I I asked whether or not this was already this
should have already been covered in his $15,000 contract. And I was told by the administration that they will be pulling this bill and examining that. So I I'm just saying this out loud just so that this is on the record for um for our
clerk for this next one 1884156 and 188525. This has to do with we are renting these large machines um outside of our public public library that are running
on diesel and they are illuminating the um outside of the public library and we're paying I believe um $5,000 a month for this. So, I did want to ask the administration
because I did not see the answer to this in my questions, which is how was this building illuminated before the township acquired it? How was the parking lot illuminated prior to purchasing this? I
If I could just uh intervene, and I don't want to slow you down, but we just talked about the the herk rentals for the lighting in the parking lot. My understanding it's $700 a month, not five I'm sorry, what the number you
I we had two bills this this on our bill list that together their total is about $5,000. But I don't think I think that was it's for her rentals at the library. If I'm wrong then it was like $2,300 each.
So if we can clarify that tonight. Yeah, great. If not, we'll move on. But I I didn't want that left hanging if because that was my understanding. The uh the lighting and the generators to power the lights uh are $700 a month and are really needed if you've ever been out to
the public library in the dark and walking back to the parking lot to your car. You you we really do need the illumination. But anyway, Mr. Smaldo, Mr. Datiniac, I'm going to defer to Mr. the bill. But I will say that the reason we had to get
them initially is that all the lights when we u started upgrading the the project or the building, most of those lights are broken. They were just the way we had we received it. And it was estimated
somewhere between $40 and $50,000 at the time to replace just around the building. And with with um as we've discussed, we have phase two in place for consideration for the council for lighting that you know the whole big project to to add LED lights and things of that nature. So we haven't moved
forward with it because we didn't know where we're going with the with phase two. But as you pointed out, council president, we need those lights up there. So So do we know what the cost is and what those bills are referring to if they're if they're connected to each other?
Yes. So, the the cost of the light towers is $2,700 uh along with $55 in um statemandated emission fees for a total of $2,000
$8365. And is that per month? Because I see two bills here for the herk rentals. Do we have two bills on them? I thought we had the one bill 84156 and we have 188525.
So this is for 188525. This is the um invoice dated July 29th. Um so it's a month for one month. So each month is 2300
uh uh 20 2800 approximately or is or is that are we paying that twice? Uh let me look at the other bill. Um well al also excuse me for jumping in but it's summertime we it stays out um lighter later so is that a summer bill
and are the winter bills more expensive? It's a rental for the unit. It's per unit. We have three units that we rented. So we rent we rent the units. It does it electric whether we run run them 24 hours or 1 hour. It's the same rental for the unit. It's just the amount of fuel that's being used in those times.
It's a it's a diesel charged apparatus. So, my concern is that we're burning diesel right outside the public library, but my question is, I know we we spoke about this in in the um budget hearing.
Why why wasn't this part of the original budget? A lighting a a library that is open at night is expected to have lighting by municipal code. So, I believe I've spoken about this
quite a few times. The initial project was for the library itself, not the building. We received approximately six million or so between matching funds and what we provided. And it was for the library itself. It wasn't for the building. The building has four or five
phases that we've identified, including the lighting and exterior is the third. The second phase we we're talking about replacing the windows in another phase. we're talking about the roof and the the remainder of the uh HVAC systems. Um so there's there's multiple phases. So
everybody thinks is that we we spent all this money on the building. In fact, the library project um wasn't just the library. We actually had to make upgrades outside the scope of of the library project itself, including uh we
had to replace uh the elevators because that wasn't ADA compliance. That was not included in the scope. Uh the lighting was not included in the scope. Um some of the doorways that and um and um access systems were not part of the
scope. the um require the requirement to add the suppression system and the gas line and all the others were not part of the original scope. They weren't included in the project. As to why, I can't I can't give you that answer because I wasn't assigned to the project at that time. But these are things that
we identified that had to be addressed to upgrade the building. It wasn't just the library project. It was to improve. And in fact, with the fire alarm system, u under the code, uh we had money in there for the I think the fire alarm system just for the library, but because under the code, it was changed from when
the original plans came in, you needed now to have the entire fire alarm system tie into one panel, not having two separate panels, that was changed after the design of the pro building. So, we had to upgrade the fire alarm system, too. So, there was a lot of um expenses that were not identified prior to uh you
know, when we started the project. And I can't speak to that because I wasn't involved with that part of it. Right. So, let's let's not let's not review that entire project. Let's just focus on the lights so that we can get an accurate accurate idea about what we're spending and why we're spending
it. Just on just on the lights and as relation to the bills. So, it's it's 283605 per month. So, there are two POS on this bill list. The reason that uh there's two POS is that we paid um one of the rental bills in
between uh meetings so that we didn't incur a a finance fee. So there's a a payment that was made on July 16th um for probably the July rental. Um that's why we've included it on the bill
list for approval, but has already been paid. Um, but yes, it's 2836 per month. Okay. So, our our business, if I could just clarify before you go on, just so we can be clear, it's 2836 per month
for the actual machinery or or or for the lights. For the whole thing. So, the generator and the lights. The whole thing. Yeah. The whole package. We have three lights there. Is that correct? And that's for three. That's for three. Okay. So I would like to ask why we
don't use solar lighting which is being used at Whole Foods. They have a they also have a need for light and they are using solar generated lights. Why shouldn't we be using that instead of burning diesel which we are also paying
for and which very much might be against um D regulations. Um, so I don't know. I haven't seen the the solar light at the Whole Foods. Um,
it's similar to what we have there. It's like a a small stand or is it tall lights? Um, we'll we'll look into that and look into the cost. Um, thank you. I I mean, I don't like the diesel
either. I I I went to a meeting there. Yeah. I I don't like it. And if we can find something more affordable and better for the environment, we'll obviously do that. Um, so we'll come back with a price uh give us a couple days. So yeah, the bottom line is that we don't
have electrical wiring to get the the power out there to the parking lot so that we can we can we're going to have to have something but if there's something that's cheaper, better for the environment, then we obviously would rather go that route, right? But I I did hear I did hear our
BA say tonight that the lights were broken. So, I I think that what he's saying is that there was illumination in the parking lot prior to um purchasing this building or, you
know, being given this the free library. Um because I find it hard to believe that US government employees and other tenants were working at that building at night and not having illumination. So, if the if it's a matter that there
are some broken lights, let's fix the broken lights and if we need to, let's use let's use solar power. Um, so I I I don't know. I I don't know if you want to have our engineer come up, council president, just to speak
briefly. No. Okay. Um, yeah, I believe, you know, there are light towers there. I I don't know exactly how many. Um it may not even be sufficient if they were even working to properly light place. But uh
um I I I know that to fix it is going to require running conduit, is that a real term? Electrical underneath the ground. And I think that's why it sort of was packaged into
the resurfacing and all the other um improvements to do the project. Moving back to the grant, um, you know, I I don't know exactly when the township made application for the state library grant for the
construction, but I I guess, you know, at the time it wasn't part of the scope. It wasn't awarded in the project. Um, so that's why they're looking to do these these other uh these other capital projects and phasing in the improvements
to the property. Um, I'll just let the BA know because I know you stepped out and I said we will speak to the director and see if there is a a more environmentally friendly, costeffective lighting system. You know, we can
find out what they're using at Whole Foods. Um there's a solar system and just get back to the council with uh with some ideas and some some projections. So So sure just just moving moving on from that
issue. Uh the next bill issue was 188914. I was surprised to see that we are paying um $880 to clean the dog park from our landscaper when the dog park has no trees.
And um I was told that it's I'm really not clear on what the answer is because I was told it was not part of the bid and that we have to take care of the property. So and and that this is just taking care of the property around it.
So I'd really like to get a sense on how large is the property around the dog park that our landscaper is charging us for because that seems like a lot of money. $880 for seems like a small tract of land. So,
can you look into how large that area is? I know that both parks between the large dog and the small park is 2 acres. Um, that's what that I was told when we we obtained it. And then the the parking area itself, I I don't know what the measurement, but I would say I would say
the whole area is is in or around 3 acres total, but I'll have to confirm that. So, this is an area that has no trees on it. So, even if it's three acres, it does seem like a lot of money for an area that has
some some of the well, the park has an impervious cover in there u to help with the um you know, with the fecal matter and the the urine from the animals. And um as to why there's no trees, we could I I'll talk to the director and I could talk to the uh the forest to see what we
could do to possibly put some in there. But that park wasn't built by us. That park was designed and approved through the project for Stone Hill and then it was it was uh awarded to us and we accepted it as a c uh as a a governing body. I
forget when it was. I don't know if it was this council or the previous council, but it was accepted and we did um um take control of that property. So, I I would just like to review that review that bill if you could find out more information about what exactly
they're doing for $880 a month on that on that property. I wasn't really suggesting putting more trees there. I was just questioning why we are paying for a service um for a piece of property that was that was deed to us that
frankly maybe should be deed back to to the um to the complex because this is now this is now costing us money to maintain. Councilwoman, so um when we took um
when the executive drive transaction uh went into place, it was my understanding that the fees to get the um yearly fee of $10 for uh West Orange residents and $20 for
out of town residents. those fees would go directly to help um the cost for maintaining the park. Um so that's something that maybe Mr. Fonzenino can answer number one to see how we're doing with those fees, make sure that you know
people are utilizing it properly. But the bit and probably not so much this summer because when the park did open there were conversations back then and this is I'm going to ask Mr. moraldo to look into that there were supposed to be some more coverage in the
area because it's very hot up there in the summer and so there were supposed to be some trees put in or uh whatever those uh canvases are that creates shade uh over the artificial turf. Um but yeah
and then who is responsible? So, is the landscaper my question is responsible? Are they hosing off this area? Like, are they cleaning? Like, I don't know exactly how it gets cleaned, but that's my question. If they're hosing it off, I'm going to see if I can get director
Fonzo. Yeah, that's part of the cleaning. No, no, that's okay. Okay. I did look into the fees that we're collecting from the dog park. It doesn't even cover Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't even cover this at all. And this is a monthly charge. I
just wanted this to be looked into. It seems to me like we're bearing a lot of expense for something that was deed to us for free. And this was sort of the discussion that we had last time with nothing free is really free if it comes comes with a price. And you're correct. How about the freaking office building?
You just heard from Mr. Got another $5 million to I I sorry. No, that's okay because it it is frustrating because I think some of the costs could have picked up. we should have been more aggressive. Um, and I wasn't part of the talks. Um, the council wasn't privy to that. That was
administration. But, um, there we could have been more aggressive in going for the grant, especially back then. You know, again, it it's hard when we make decisions when we approve items, but back in 2018, costs were a lot lower,
and it would have been great if some other things were included in that library uh funding bond because u the state was picking up 40 cents on the dollar. Um but the but um it was always stated and noted that the 1.4 million received
uh each year for our tenant uh is to absorb some of the cost. So I I know where you're frustrated in some areas. We always have to mention the rent. That's why I was a very big strong proponent for not keeping that other space as a township occupied space uh on
the lower level of the library because um you know we could get additional revenue for all these additional costs that popped up since we originally uh obtained the property. So that's why I always keep um supporting that we that
stays a rental property for us so we could cover all these extra costs that we weren't anticipating. Thank you, Mr. SM. And then I'd like to just move on. And uh I have director on the line so he can answer so if he can join and answer some of your questions. I haven't here. So
do do we need to answer those questions tonight? Yeah. No. No, we don't. Um, I just would like you to to to I'd like to request that that bill be examined because that seems like a very high bill for pulling it. I I was I was about to say
we're we're going to pull uh PO18914 Drio and Suns. Uh, thank you. There's a miscalculation and we're pulling it. Okay. Um, well, I didn't know that. What's the miscalculation?
The number of hours being charged. I just looked at it and it's wrong. Okay, good. Hope we save some money. Um, the final one that I just have a question about, I've asked this several times. I'm sorry that I'm not understanding it. It's for 184895
Realy Pro Group. Um, the the invoice that received two invoices for 924 and 1024 for uh management services for 10 Rooney. Is
this a typo that it's 924 and 1024 or are we still paying this management company for bills for managing 10 Rooney which we now own? Well, we do management firms. Yeah. Are we We've switched management firms. We
discussed that during the budget work. I apologize. I shouldn't have interrupted. Clarify. That's okay. So, are we paying a management firm $8,000 a month for managing 10 Rooney? This was a an old agreement. These are
old bills. Um, we no longer utilize Realy Pro. Um, but we had old unpaid bills and this is making good on those unpaid bills. Is this the last of those unpaid bills?
This is it. Yeah. And what service did they provide? What kind of maintenance did they provide? They I mean it predates me but they they they were the management company for for Ten Rooney. Um they coordinated anything
that broke that you know the the vendors to fix the things that broke. Um they managed the whole electricity allocations and all that. And do we have a management company now? No. No. It's our No, it's our own people.
It's it's it's under director Reynolds. Now, we we we uh we recognized that this group, we inherited them with the building. Um and when we started realizing that with the uh the library coming in, we we looked into it and we wound up um se uh
severing our our agreement with them. It was a month-to-month agreement and we we realized it. So now we have um our staff goes up there and with the assistance on occasion from some of the library staff to help us out. That's that that's that's nominal that they help us out, but on occasion they'll help us out, but our staff for
the most part. Plus, we also hire the um the um the maintenance company to do to service all the buildings as far as um you know, janitorial services, things of that nature. Okay. Um Madame Clerk, you don't have to pull that bill, right? Thank you so much. I'm done with the
bills. Okay, there's not any more discussion. We can do the voting on the two separate uh bills. We can do the ones that are pulled, see if uh see if we approve, and then uh approve the rest of the bills
that there is no uh dispute with. Okay, please. We've pulled four bills. Okay. So, we got two bills on the herk. So, it's actually five bills, but four vendors. Is that what you mean? No, we we pulled one on on a car car
collision which I was told that it was taken from the wrong PO. Oh, so that's that's being that's not that's not on the list now, right? I don't know how to deal with that because the administration has told us that they are dealing with that. So is that something that we need to pull? No.
Okay. Thank you. Okay. So then we are we're we're pulling um three bills. three bills, which is the the two for the Herk Rentals and um the one for the the Denophrio.
Okay. So, what about the Dr. Kelly bill? Oh, I'm sorry. And and I think that's that's right. Okay. So, that's full, too. Okay. Yeah, that was pulled. So, first,
it's basically 1884156, 1885, and 18894. Correct. Okay. All right. Do you want to try to get consent on all three just to save time? Yeah. Is there is there consent? Consent. Consent. Consent.
Thank you. Okay. Are any resolutions being pulled? Before we do that, we need to approve all the other bills. Yeah. Ah, yes. Is there consent on the other bills? Consent. Consent. Consent. Thank you.
Okay. So now is there any resolutions being pulled? Yes. C council president. Yes, Mr. I do want to point out in the agenda which I have a million things open. Let me go to the agenda. Um you need to speak up a little bit. Mr.
Hard for me to hear. I I do want to point out that we have a resolution on um that amends a fee resolution. That fee resolution is sort of tied into resolutions.
Yes. Appointing professional service contracts. I would recommend that you vote on the resolution that amends the fees first
before you vote on the two contracts. Um, and again, this has to do with the land use, the escro fees. Um so that would be my recommendation that that resolution because if you don't vote for if you vote to you know in the
negative um for that resolution then you really can't vote for uh the resolution for Warner because the uh professional service rate in that resolution is is tied to the feed
resolution if that makes sense. Okay. Does everybody understand what what he said? But I have a question. Okay. Councilwoman Caselino. So So do you want us to pull 189 now and vote and before we
So pull we have to pull it so we can vote on it separately. It will be pulled and then we'll vote on it. Okay. Yeah. I would just again I I wouldn't put it on consent. Um I would vote on it individually before you vote on the other
professionals. Okay. I I discussed this with um with Miss Carnival this morning um and she was going to make a statement to that effect, but you know um Okay, does it make sense what I'm saying?
Because again like the fee is is referenced in the resolution appointing the professional. So if you don't pass the resolution changing the fee, that resolution really doesn't make sense. Hey, I guess.
Okay, that's fine. But before we before we vote on it, I don't know if you you want to do this vote on it now. I'd like to read portions of the cover letter from our town attorney that came with this resolution because I find them abhorrent and abominable and
unprofessional. So, I just want everybody to know here a little bit more about why the council and the administration is having a litigation that is now gone on for two years, more than two years, because the mayor sued
the council. And a large portion of that was because of of uh the previous council, not this council, previous council was uh objecting to the continued uh employment of Mr. Tran as
town attorney and his law firm. And what we have tonight is a letter from Mr. Tran to introduce this resolution that we are talking about now. And here's what he says, and I'm
just going to read you excerpts. Despite the administration's efforts to present these professional service contracts in a timely manner, and despite the fact that no member of the township council has ever provided a substantive reason to disapprove or delay delay the approval, these contracts remain extent.
As you are aware, these professionals are statutoily required by the MLUL. The only feedback I got after the July 21st, 2025 council meeting, we've tabled these contracts for the for the planning board and the zoning board twice, and we
may do it again tonight. The only feedback, this is Mr. Tran, the only feedback I got after the July 21st, 2025 council meeting was that there was a discrepancy in the resolution as to the hourly rate. As you are aware, that discrepancy could have been easily remedied by adopting the resolutions and
directing that the revisions be made. Instead, in a further delaying effort, the council tabled both resolutions. That is patently untrue. We have had nothing but problems with these contracts since they were first presented. And we were pretty much led
in this process by uh Councilwoman Ruden. First, the two contracts in, and maybe you want to talk about this as opposed to me, uh, were supposed to be under our ordinance. They're supposed to be both identical. They were not. Then
when the contracts came up again, the attorney for the planning board was allowing the chair of the planning board to not allow Councilwoman Scarpa, who is the
council's uh appointed member of the planning board, to speak from Zoom. So, she couldn't comment, she couldn't ask questions, she couldn't do anything until I I think I was the one that raised the issue that maybe we shouldn't approve her contract if she won't even
allow uh a dulyappointed member of the of the planning board to actually participate. And boom, it got changed. Now, we've got another issue coming here. And we've aired them out, these issues at the council meeting. So for him to say that,
it's just it's just not true. Here's what he also says. If these contracts, he says they, but he means these contracts are not approved, the mayor reserves the right to commence an appropriate litigation to resolve these matters once and for all. The
failure to allow the autonomous land use boards to do their statutory responsibilities is solely being stymied by the council's machinations. Does anybody who's listening to this meeting think that that's the way the town attorney should be speaking to the
township council? It should not. And I hope the administration takes that into account. Anyway, now we needed to pull this and vote on it.
And so it's been pulled, right? Is there a motion to approve? Make a motion to approve it. Do I hear a second? I will second the motion. Is there any further discussion?
Yeah. I I just want to make mention so folks at home understand the resolution uh states the attorneys will receive $195 an hour. Um and that wasn't the issue. The issue was that our original
resolution of fees that were passed uh a year or so ago uh did not match up to this amount. And so it was important that you know we get in line to matching up. And it's a it's just a shame that communication has been um broken down.
And I really encourage the administration to um you know let's finalize this uh this uh case and and move forward because there's a lot of healing that needs to be done and um and we can't
continue in this manner. we have too many um outstanding items um that the council has to deal with and uh council needs to to work together with administration and there has to be more respect. So I appreciate if the
administration uh could take that into account but I'll I'll be a yes. Very well said. Any other discussion? Yes woman. Um, I have concerns with the invoices that have been issued up until
this date that do not align with our existing escrow ordinance. Our existing escrow ordinance states that all professionals should be paid $150 an hour and these land use attorneys have been billing at 195 an hour. This
affects our applicants. they have been overbuild. I have raised this issue to to you Mr. Diniac and I have raised this also to you Mr. Moraldo and I would like the administration to review all prior
ordinances to all applicants visav our existing um pre-existing escrow rate and what was build and to present a report to the council so that this can be
corrected. What I was told by the township attorney is that this is just historical stuff and let's just let this go. I don't think that for the applicants who have been overcharged,
it's just historical stuff that needs to be let go and this needs to be corrected. I realize that some of the applicants are very large developers and some of them are are residents,
but this has been um something that has not been align aligned with our ordinance. And I'd like to request that a report be given to us on how this will be rectified and what the situation has been at the next council meeting.
Sound like a plan? It it looks like there's two different pieces of this. One is to uh do a rationalization of the charges uh that have been done at a rate that uh was not approved. And then the second one is we need to change the ordinance.
Yeah. If we're if we're passing a resolution talking about $195 an hour for escrow work, we we need to change the ordinance. Am I right? That is correct. But up until this date, from the point at which this R our escrow was set, which was in
um August of 2023, it was set our escrow rate for other professionals was set at 150. From that point on, our escrow rate has been ignored by these two professionals. So, Council President, I'm not going to
discuss openly about this part. We'll look into that. But regarding the ordinance, that's not that's not accurate because we changed the ordinance back in 2023 to reflect that anytime we want to change any fee,
we do it by by dual resolution. But we don't have to address the ordinance. Okay. All right. So my mistake right the resolutions are so whether it be for this particular thing or the dog license or you know whatever whatever else we
want to charge for we can we can come to you with a reszo and say we want to change a chapter 10 x and then you would you would agree or disagree with that. Okay. Mr. Moraldo, in August of 2023, was there a resolution that set the the fee
at $150 for escrow for other professionals? Yes. Yes. Yes. So, did I say ordinance because I meant resolution? No. No. The council president said something about address what he said was he said we should change the ordinance
and I just wanted to clarify that part of we're not talking about the res. No, you're correct. There was a reso passed in August of 23 and I believe it was for $150. And now this particular reszo in what we were just speaking about is going to change the fee from 150 to 195
to reflect. That's the purpose of this reszo tonight. So it reflects that way so that it is in line with what we're what the escrow is going to be established at. Correct me if I'm wrong. Correct. And will this administration
prepare a report so that we can see what has been done since August 2023 to applications? And will there be an effort to correct this? I would just recommend in terms of correcting it that we not discuss that in terms of potential liability or potential litigation or anything like
that. I I think it's understood that the test being given to the administration, but let's not get into detail any further on that. Okay. As long as as long as we can get that as long as we can get that information, I'd appreciate it. But at hand tonight, Council President,
is we're looking to address this change so that it reflects everything that we do currently. Yes. And whether you and whether you want to approve those other resolutions for the the two individuals. Yes. And and I thank you for correcting me. I misunderstood and I spoke uh
incorrectly. So I appreciate you you clarifying and correcting me. So we tr the intent back then was to make hopefully to try to make our jobs easier so we don't have these and cheaper and cheaper because we don't have to put out ordinances and pay for advertising. I understand. I understand. Okay. So what
we have is we have a motion on the floor and is there any other discussion? All right, Madame Clerk. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes.
Council President Koviaak. Yes. The motion carries. Great. Okay. It's It's only 9:19 on my computers. We've finally gotten through our first resolution, so I'm I'm getting excited
here. Okay. So before we got a little detour detourred here, we were asking if any of the proposed resolutions are going to be pulled. Is that am I coming back to that? Okay, Councilman Castle.
Yeah, I want to pull a 152-25 and I'd like to pull um where was the other one I had? Oh yeah. Uh yeah,
184. I have questions on uh I'm sorry. So I'll pull it for discussion. 184 184 the Rock Spring one. Nothing else. And I'm good. Okay.
Thought if there was one other, but I didn't see. So you may or may not be good. I'm good for now. Someone else go. Okay. Councilman Ruden, I would like to pull 185-25 185
on specialized equipment for leaf and snow collection. And I would like and I would like to um pull 190 on an agreement with matrix
and 191 on an agreement with CME. I'd also like to make a suggestion to council president that for the ordinances that we just pulled related relating to our engineering department. You mean resolutions
for the res for the resolutions that we pulled related to the engineering department that we um give courtesy to our director who's here tonight to do those first so that she can go home. That's a good idea. 190 191.
Yes. So, um she is dealing with um one of the resolutions that um Councilwoman Council Castelino pulled, which you pulled 184. Yeah. Um and
so 184, 190, and 191. Councilwoman, you also said 185. Did you want to pull 185 and snow collection? Yes, we do want to pull it. I Oh, no. You meant to talk with the is
not the engineering director's um perview. Sorry. Yes, DPW. Okay. Councilwoman Scarpa, do you have anything to pull or question? No, they got they got all the ones that I was interested in. Thank you.
Okay. Okay. So, Council President, so we think for the interest of time, uh, the administration is okay with just tableabling 152 and we could discuss that. Um, we could have other conversations offline because it' probably be lengthy. We don't probably have all the information that you're going to ask or request. So, I would
suggest that we we have that conversation offline and we'll we'll get you that information for next meeting. Okay? because that's the issue I wanted to raise because uh this this property owner has been trying to get his project Yeah.
moving uh at 80 Maine. Uh the project at 80 Main, which is just basically across the street. It's known as it's known to us old-timers as the drill building. He wants to make some changes. uh as far as I can tell he doesn't want to make any
variances uh uh in the project but he wants to use our ordinance that makes the entire town under the state law as an area in need of
rehabilitation. So you guys may remember back at the end of 2021 a previous council approved this. So now anybody who wants to try to operate under the state law uh for rehabilitation of properties can do this
and I I don't even know whether we even done this before. Does anybody know have we ever cited this area need of rehabilitation in a in a project? Anyway, I I'm I digress. uh he's just been trying to do this for uh fairly
close to a year and we got it on the agenda finally and now it looks like I I just want to ask one question. Yeah. And and and then we can move forward on it. The question is I have some comments. I'm sorry. Councilwoman Scarpa, do you
have something to say? Yes. After you're finished, I do want to comment on this. Oh, okay. I think the resolution needs to be amended, but I'm not sure that we can amend it at tonight's meeting. If your offer is, you
know, we need to get it the resolution right and fixed and we'll bring it back at the next meeting, I guess that's okay. God bless you. Um, but if it's something that we can amend tonight, then then maybe we should do that and move it forward. So, that was my only
question and I don't know whether Mr. Burke is the right person. But anyway, Mr. Smaldo, you had your hand up. No, I I was I had my hand up. I thought I'm sorry. Just you're practicing. I'm I'm okay. Okay. Well, let me just Mr. Burke, is that
possible to amend a a resolution and still vote vote on it tonight? I should be, but I wouldn't really be able to give you guidance on depending on what you're trying to amend on whether it's appropriate or there's going to be another issue with it. Okay. Um but yeah, it just generally, you
know, you could amend a resolution. Okay. So, Councilwoman Scarpa asked to speak after I spoke. So, Councilwoman Scarpa. Yeah. I just want to say I have some real problems with this. I mean, I ran
for this seat based upon my concern that too often um redevelopment rewards developers at the expense of the taxpayers. Um, I think it's a very bad precedent to allow redevelopers to user the zoning
board and I I think and and evade, you know, um, some of the some of the issues that are very important for them to look at. Um, we have a great zoning board now that is very thorough and very
professional. I have full confidence in the process and if you know we in the old days when we had a town planner in house you know a developer could go to her and discuss you know the kind of needs they had and things could really
be worked out in a a more appropriate way and um I just have I want to go on record as having said that I have a real concern about this. Thank you. Yes. And you and I have had multiple
discussions on this. I just want to make clear to everyone. Uh I your concerns are totally valid and and I don't I don't uh want to argue with them. But I do want to say this as I mentioned the develop the property owner has been looking to do his work for a long time
move it ahead going this route using the the whole purpose of the area need of re rehabilitation is to shorten the time period of development and to reduce the cost to the uh proposed developer. So
it's going to save the developer time and money. If it goes as as planned, it will be good news to residents with more retail and restaurant options and will add to the value of the property and thus increase commercial property tax revenues to the township and that would
reduce the burden on residential property owners. On top of that, and it needs it can't be said any can't be said enough. Council has complete authority over every word in the de redevelopment
plan that the planning board develops under state law. If we don't like a period, we throw we can throw the whole plan out. If we don't like a word, if we if we tell the planning board we want to change something, they have to change it. The council has total authority over
this and that's why I I I really hesitate to table this until the next council meeting because I I really think this needs to move forward because I think it's a real positive for the township. There's no payment in le of taxes. There's no tax
abatement. There's no loans that are allowed under the law there. There's not going to be any loans. And I I just want to move it forward and and hopefully we can uh those of us who think this is should move forward can uh uh can continue to
discuss with Councilwoman Scarpa. Councilwoman Scarpa has her hand up. I'd like to respond. Okay. Could we just just a second? Counciloman Scarpa. Just a second. Councilwoman Castelino had her hand up before you you Go ahead. Go ahead. No problem. And then we'll come back to you and then
we'll get uh Counciloman Ruden. So, and I apologize, Mr. Smaldo. I I mean, I the reason why I pulled this was because I did want to discuss why I was pulling it. Um, so
this is a downtown property. I'm not going to, uh, restate all the reasons my colleague gave. Um but this property owner um he has a plan out there to keep it commercial the building and not ask for
a pilot uh which is always a plus for us and to really turn down uh to really uh turn a redevelop a nice property a property that could really develop into something really nice. Uh it was urban renewal back in the 70s. So this was
always a redevelopment project. But the problem I have this evening is and I actually wanted to get this on the agenda. But the reason why I'm pulling it and why I want to tell uh administration, you know, twice in the resolution says reviewing a package of
materials appended here too from the properties ownership concerning the property and potential permitted uses rules and standards that would be set forth in a redevelopment plan. We you know there was supposed to be attachment with this for my colleagues or attachment. Yeah, attachments
and again like this is all we had received. So, I feel really bad about having to pull this, but without having the backup documentation, it's just it's it's I can't blame them for not wanting to support it. So, if we could pull, you know, pull it. It is
pulled by administration. I don't know who pulls first wins, but um we do need uh rock scissor paper. We we do need the backup information um so an educated decision can be made. Um
because again I'm I'm learning with some of these transactions. You know, you see something one day and and you know, a month later things change and uh so we need to know exactly what we're looking at the night that we vote. Thank you, Councilwoman Scarpa. And then Council Member.
Yes. Uh thank you, Councilwoman Castelino. I had the same concerns about not understanding exactly what kind of variances or what kind of um accommodations this, you know, this this developer is going to need. It's too
often when we bypass zoning, as we've seen here tonight, talking about many development projects, that public safety is forfeited. This is a major intersection, and this is a major commercial building. It's a parking lot
where ingress and egress could be problematic. Sidewalks. There's a number of things as I look at that site that do need to be seriously looked at given the large volume of traffic that will go through there with this development. And
I really feel strongly that the zoning board is more than capable, is doing a fabulous job, and could help shed light on this and expedite the project if necessary. Thank you, Mar.
Thank you to my colleagues who've spoken about this. Um, I I agree. I mean, we should never get a a resolution without the backup materials. That's not fair to us. that's not fair to the public and we can't possibly vote on anything that
doesn't have all of the information provided to us. I'd like to echo uh council council person Scarpa's opinion about where this resolution should land. We are always looking for smart
development. From what I've heard about this project, it sounds like smart development, but I am not a zoning expert and I have no expertise in terms of what is an appropriate variance to grant or not grant. Nor do we have the
professionals up here to question the applicant on whether or not this is safe for our community. So an application like this, even a good application like this, very much appears like spot zoning. And I'm against that. I think
that when a a plan comes to our town and it h it is requesting variances, then the applicant needs to go to the appropriate land use board, whatever that is. This application is also requesting that the property owner pay
$15,000 for a study to see whether it is appropriate for a redevelopment plan. That that also doesn't quite seem kosher to me that the applicant is paying for this plan. um if the applicant is paying for this
then let's use let him use the same money to go before whatever the appropriate land use board is and have the professionals there make make an accurate assessment. So I would ask that this not be brought back and that this be sent immediately to the appropriate
land use board. Councilman Gelina. So, ju just one last point. When this first started, um well, we did or I thought we were going to have our redevelopment attorney on board. So, that's one of the questions.
I'll talk about that with with the administration obviously. Um you know, I don't understand why I I know it has to go to the planning board, but where are they sending it? Like, is it going to planning consultant? Usually the redevelopment plans would go through our
redevelopment attorney, Mr. Becklman, but we that hasn't been finalized. And um so that that's where I'm a little concerned because I I hear my colleagues with your argument and hopefully after you see the attachments or maybe you
know you may change your mind, but if not that's fine, too. But um I I feel more comfortable if the redevelopment attorney would be involved in the process of the redevelopment plan. And I don't know what access do we have to someone right
now? Are you asking are you asking questions? I'm asking administration. I'm not sure they can answer it. But so the council did not uh appoint a redevelopment attorney earlier this year. So, we don't have one right now.
We also did invite in we also didn't appoint the planner, but they seem to be working non-stop. So, I I don't understand if we're under the threshold why a redevelopment attorney couldn't be, you know, utilized for this uh transaction. It would be way under the
threshold. And obviously, he's paying $15,000 according to this. So again, I I don't expect answers tonight, but I I mean, if we want to get something done, we could obviously get something done. Well, the firm that we we appointed for
the bond attorney is the same firm for the redevelopment. So, I I think that's why they've shied away from doing any redevelopment work because it goes over the threshold just with the bond work. Um, so that's why, you know, Mr. Beckman
is uh but there's other redevelopment attorneys out there in New Jersey. Oh, yes, there is. Okay, I'm just going to leave it there. So, I I'd like to figure out a way we
could help this investor. He's been way too patient waiting and I would like to do it with everybody on board and and feeling comfortable and um and I and I you know we we looked at this in other ways and and I'm going to give kudos
where kudos are deserved and I will I you know Mr. Tran looked at this early on and he wasn't he was trying to steer away uh the developer from red uh doing a de a redevelopment plan. So I don't want anybody to think that this was uh
his uh idea. This is the um developer himself wanted to go this route. So I have to you know state the facts where they are correct. Um but again we needed that package. Um I had asked the clerk
this afternoon and uh I guess we we didn't have one. So which is the reason why we pull it so that we can provide you the information that you're requesting. Right. And I just want to follow up uh on what Councilwoman Ruden said because
uh I think it's important to clarify and the reason I know at least that I believe I need to try to clarify is that I had the same problem that she did when she originally started looking at this. And the the problem is that there isn't
a separate rehabilitation law just like there's a redevelopment law. The two are combined and rehabilitation is sort of tacked on to the redevelopment law. And
it's important to understand the difference between a study and a plan. So in redevelopment you have a study that says yes this qualifies as an area need of redevelopment and then you have
the plan. All right. The exact same thing happens with rehabilitation. You have to do a study that says this property is allowable to become an area in need
of rehabilitation. But we already did that years ago. We've already determined that the entire municipality through a study and you can go back and find it because that's what I have to do. Yeah. The study said the entire town can be an
area need of rehabilitation and it's being done all over the state. So the next state, the next step, excuse me, after you give do the study and determine that it qualifies is you then do a plan. If you look at the resolution
that we're looking at, it says pursuant to NJSA4A12A-7 parents F, the township hereby desires to direct the township of West Orange Planning Board to prepare a redevelopment plan.
We would be moving this to them to the planning board to develop a plan not a study if because we've already determined through the study that it qualifies for rehabilitation. But the the confusing part is there's not a separate law on
rehabilitation. It just drops in a few words and a few sentences and a few clauses into the redevelopment law. So it's not clear. And that's why what my first question was, have we ever done this before in West Orange so that we know what process works and what doesn't. So anyway, I just wanted to
clarify that that the planning board is being asked to prepare a plan and they have 45 days to do it. And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the planning and zoning boards have their own planning consultants? No, that's the one we didn't approve.
That's the one we didn't approve. So they so the so the boards are operating without any planning consultant. They they are hiring yeah they're on standard thresholds. They're hiring their own consultants who we did not approve for a contract. Okay. So I just want to make that clear
and and that we're not asking for a rehabil an area need a rehabilitation study to determine if it qualifies. We've already done that. the entire town qualifies for rehabilitation and that's what this uh property owner is trying to
do. Councilwoman Scarpa. Um yeah, I just one thing I want to point out is, you know, that's another level of cost hiring a redevelopment attorney on top of all this. Um, and also I think our township needs to look
at at a at whole revisit this project as a whole and think about whether we really want to be our township to be an area in need of rehabilitation. I mean, maybe we want to change that ordinance. I'm not so sure that's the best thing
for our township and it's something I'd like to see us look at in a very serious way. Thank you. All right. So, is have we drained this subject for tonight? Yes. Okay. So, the administration has said they would like to pull this resolution.
Yes. We don't even have to say yes or no. You've you've pulled it. So, now we can now we can move on. See, we do the uh directors.
Okay. I I also wanted to pull just so so we get it straight. Uh 172-25. This is uh the appointment or the contract for the planning board attorney. Uh 182-25
resolution authorizing the issuance of a duplicate tax sale certificate pursuant to state law. I think that I think that resolution is faulty. It has it it says a a month period is a
date and I don't think that's accurate. We have uh also 183-25 is the emergency procurement at uh at Minish Park for a collapsed uh pipe.
And we have 184-25 at Rock Spring, which I also think is a faulty resolution. Uh, and and I just had a question about 190 and
191, but since somebody pulled it, we don't have to we don't have to do that now. We're going to discuss it. Okay. We're Did you pull it? I did pull both then. Okay. So, those are those. Do we want to go over those numbers again?
So, um, aside from 15225 that just was tabled, I have 17225, 1822, 18325, 1842,
18525, 1892, 1902, and 1912. Okay. So we we're not pulling 189. We've already voted. Yeah. To approve that. Okay. So we don't have to do that. My mistake voting.
You're just testing us. Okay. Did you say 190? Yes. And one. Okay. So let's get our town engineer, Miss Carbalo, up here. And you want put her on the hot seat, please. And let's
get her home. Yes. So I think the next one I don't want to do your job. I think the next one is is it 184? Yes, for her. Yeah. Okay. Oh, no. 183 for her.
Oh, 183, too. Oh, I didn't have that. Oh, I I didn't do it. I thought you said 183. Yeah, I thought so, too. Min Park is for Min Park. I didn't have anything for Minish Park. 184 was pulled, right? Okay. I I misspoke on 183 Minish Park
because I I I don't have any question about it. It was it it appears all was done by the book. Uh I just want to re-emphasize yet again that even though the state procure emergency procurement law does not
require any notification of the governing body in New Jersey, the governing body is responsible for just about every finance financial and monetary uh uh activity that the township does. And I would like
to as the as the governing body that we get a notice on this memo. There's the state law requires an actual memo that details what the problem is, how it's going to be fixed, and and all this other stuff just to put us on the distribution list
so that the town council knows. In the last month, we've had over $500,000 in just two emergency procurements because, as you'll hear much more eloquently from our town engineer, we
have very aged uh infrastructure and it fails a lot and we're actually talking about how we can can fix that. But we're expending all of this money and the town council doesn't even know that we're spending this money until it comes
before uh comes up on an agenda. So, I just want to emphasize I I I I I don't want to pull 183-25. So, I misspoke and it'll save us time, but I just want to emphasize again that just stick
council at west.org on the original memo and so then we'll know what's going on. That's all. So, we're not doing 183. So, now we can move on to 184. And I think I I didn't pull that. Uh um Michelle pulled this. I would like to
her to start with that. Right. Right. But she ran away. She'll be back. Okay. So, um so I have Go ahead. No, you were talking. I interrupt you. I was just going to say I did have some questions about Rockspring. Um and it
doesn't really have to do I think with you Miss Carbalo because I think the resolution is written is faulty and it says it says uh in the resolution whereas the work will consist of matrix conducting
investigation for two areas of concern AOC's as outlined in the par I don't think it actually conveys the information in the matrix proposal because it's not two uh areas of concern. It's one area of
concern which is AOC-2. The other activity is to provide a report. So, I'm not sure if if the resolution is accurate, whether we're actually legally moving ahead on this. Um, it's matrix appears to me, simple
reading of the resolution, it proposes two tasks for AOC-2, not work for the two listed AOCC's. The other AOC, it says right there in uh the resolution has already been taken care of. So, my
question is, can can we have a valid a valid activity or valid contract if it's not accurate? It is for two areas of concern. If you look at page one of their um proposal, which is what I requested, is AOCC2,
which is the former underground storage tank, the USD, and then there is also AOC 11, the historic bill. So phase pass one, which is the phase two site investigation activities, is basically for those two areas of concern, number
two and number 11. Okay, let me uh let me pull up I would say is the third paragraph with the two bullet points on 184. Yes. Okay. Okay. So, I'm looking at I'm looking now now I'm looking at uh
the matrix proposal to you and it says in February 2019 there were two areas of concern that were identified throughout the site further and those were the further recommended for investigation. One was AOC-2 you understand underground
tanks and the other one was the historic fill yes material. The next paragraph says, "In December 2024, the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection approved Greenacres Grant funding." Oh, wait. Don't need to talk about this. Blah, blah, blah.
Additional information was provided to Greenacres grant program with regards to AOC-2 as the former USS were closed out were closed out with the NJD and a groundwater remedial action permit has been approved by the
NJD for the benzene groundwater impacts associated with the former USS. So that paragraph says closed out. What does closed out mean to a to an engineer? The issue that we have with those two
areas of concern is that based on the previous preliminary assessment report that was done in 2019. Mhm. Matrix basically recommended the township to do bianial I would say investigation for the USD underground
storage tanks and also to basically further do investigation for the historic field material because there was actually unknown what the historic field was at the time of the uh report
and none of that was done. Correct. No, none of that has been throwed down. Okay. So, so when it says additional information was provided to Greenacres grant program with regards to AOC-2 as the former USS were closed out
with this permit approved by the NJ for the groundwater impacts. So, what does closed out mean? It basically means that if if if the um how would I say that the case has been closed that means that we have done soal
our due diligence right we will do the testing hopefully the results come back saying that we are below the threshold uh for contamination. The problem here is is that in 2019 when they tested all of the wells, one well
exceeded the limits from NJP and that's actually under report for the underground storage tank. So the area that has the underground storage tank is actually the area where um they have the uh maintenance garage. They actually had a 1,00galon um tank, also a
550galon tank. Um they were both removed back in 1992. When this was done, they're actually uh did the site investigation. There was actually enough further letter action uh for the remediation of the USS. And then in 2013
there was also a groundwater remedial action permit that was issued to the site at that time belonged to Monontlair Golf Club and they were evaluating the groundwater remediation. Now in 2017 then they conducted more
sampling no different than what we're doing right now on the on the PW site. They put a a well it comes back good. A couple of years later, they put another well. They test it and then guess what? The contamination has rebounded in in in
the groundwater. So, this is what happened back in 2017 and the wells were sampled again in July of 2019. And that's when they figured that, you know, they recommended that um, you know, we continue to do our due diligence, but
for some reason, nothing was nothing has been done. Okay. So in the proposal a little bit further down it says it lists two tasks. The first task is phase two site investigation activities, right? There's absolutely no mention of
the fill um because the site investigation activities will be basically like if you if you look in here the proposed work okay on that further up on that page I will say the second paragraph it says the proposed work will be completed in accordance with the site remediation
reform act the administrative requirements for the remediation contaminated sites technical requirements for site remediation and the NJP historic field material technical guidance document from April 2013. So just by them saying that that
they're going to follow the historic field material guidance, that means that they're going to be taking care of the AOC 11 historic fill um area of concern. Okay? Even though Uhhuh. there's no reference to that in the task
that they are proposing to do for us. They've got task one phase two site investigating activities. There's no discussion of the field. And then task two is report preparation and project management detailing the results of the work
completed as part of task one. So task one is basically to do the investigation for both of them. Okay. It just doesn't say that. That's what I was confused. There's by them saying that they're going to do the historic field as per NJT NJP
technical guidance. That means they're going to follow the investigation based on the guidance of the uh DP 2013 technical book. Okay? So when it says closed out, it doesn't mean closed out.
Unfortunately, closed out means Okay. For example, I'm going to give you DPW. Okay. DPW has so many cases. If you just tell me I'm wrong, it's fine. You don't have to explain. Tell you you're wrong. But I'm trying to like so that you understand. It doesn't mean that because they open up a case
today, right? Two years from now, they have been doing their bianial investigation. They test it and it comes back that is clean. They could close now, right? That means we're not exceeding at that location. But it has happened in the PW where they have
closed the case and then a year or two later the LSRP comes back to me saying that the test results now show that we are exceeding and we have to go back and open another case because it's their due diligence to report to D even though
they're working for us. Okay. And and task one doesn't doesn't refer to the Phil doesn't refer to the Phil AOC. It just does blah blah blah and then this task two says we're going to do a report on task one. Well,
so you're telling me that it's fine for you. Let's stop me wasting time. Okay. It is basically their job is to do what we just finished or concluded doing a DPW conduct a site investigation for one area use the technical guidance
for fill material historic fill and then for the other one they're going to have to do probably more monitoring wells and test it hopefully the results come back in our favor okay that's I'm sorry I wasted everybody's time
you you wanted to some questions. Yes, I'm sorry. Well, I wanted I so I appreciate because I had a long conversation with her today and I wanted I thought it was important to pull it so she could explain it to uh each of you so you understand like we
have to get this done whether we're happy about it or not. But um you know it again Miss Carbala wasn't uh with us in 2019. So, I I appreciate her due diligence now for what she's working on.
Um, but yeah, it is it it is it is frustrating that this, you know, popped up. So, but I appreciate, you know, we're going to have to take care of it. Are we not going to get the grant? It's plain and simple. It's like we have any choices here. It's not just that. I mean, we submitted this P. Yeah. Once you
start Green Acres, and Green Acres is a division of NJ at this point. It's under the radar. We either do it or we decide to ignore it and then I would just get a notice of violation in the mail. It's on their radar, not under this what
I'm saying. It's like we're going to have no choice but to do this. I I have another follow-up question. So, so with all these projects and and the tracking of all of them, how are you able to keep up with like
everything? because I know I mean I know did you you still have don't have an assistant and and so like we we look at all this I also too I don't want to go on our predecessor but Mr. Leaport at the time was also in charge of the whole Jity program in town. So, and he was always spread way too thin and this is
unfortunately, you know, one of those uh results of that. Um, so how are you, you know, I know you've been wonderful with so many things, but again, this there's a lot of tracking that has to be done and if it's not, we're we're we have
issues. Yes, it is. Um, how do I keep tracking? Well, typically I try to meet with our LSRPs at least every couple of months. Um, especially when they give me a proposal or if there
is anything that they give me asking basically for more money. Um, I obviously sit down, read the proposals, look through the results, look at the reports which take time to to review. Um, and I typically pick up the phone and I call them and I discuss with them.
If I need further information from them or I need more clarity, I set up another meeting and we try to keep track of by when do we need to submit the reports. So that's the reason why I keep bringing
the proposals to you because everything is basically in a deadline. Mhm. And if we miss it, we could ask for extensions, but there's only so many extensions that we can ask for. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm good, Council President. Thank you. Anything else?
Yes. I have a couple of questions. Sure. Obviously, this is not your fault. You inherited this problem and we as a council now have to remediate this problem. But I do want to
ask you some questions because we as a council did not get some information. I I had requested the six reports that came along with this contract initially and was told that we don't have these reports. How is that possible?
I don't have them. I haven't got a hand my hands on them. That's the reason why I did not provide them to you or to the clerk for this matter. Um the two the one for 2019 and the 2017 P reports that were done I guess at the time when the
township was looking into buying Monler Golf Club. I actually uh provided them in my response and I believe they were uploaded to the U council's um website or where we the documents. I did try to send it to you this
afternoon but it bounced back that uh it was too large for you to receive it even though I did compress the files. Thank you for trying. So they should be in the one drive just so so these documents are available. The the the matrix yes 2017 and the
matrix 2019 reports are available. I do have those because as part of the green acres grant NJP requested a P. At that time I didn't even know this P existed. I contacted both of our LSRPs and I
received them and when I did I actually forwarded them over to D to see if they will accept them so that we wouldn't have to pay for it again. Okay. So, um this this study that was done by Matrix that we didn't get to see but
which exists and we can now see it um was done in February of 2019. It was done the the report is actually dated in March 2019. Was this report done after the property
was purchased? Before I will have to look into my records when the survey sure when the township purchased the end of April. Okay. So when this So the property this report was done in March
and the property was purchased in April and would it be correct to say that we had the administration or the the township had that document in hand before the purchase. It was done in March and the and the
contract was signed in April. So I think we've established that. So, what I wanted to point out to the public is that according to the contract between Montlair Golf um club and the township,
it said that the buyer, which was us, the township, hereby waves any right to object there to or to cause seller to remediate or repair any conditions existing at or on the property, including but not limit
committed to those conditions set forth and disclosed by environmental due diligence. So I would like to know from I guess the town the administration
was the town council apprised at that time that there was a report by matrix with which clearly identified areas of AOC and also the presence of benzene on the property which is a
carcinogen. First of all, I don't know how you can establish the the the director didn't say she had that from March to April. So, that isn't established. We don't know. We don't know what was there because we were not involved with it. So, we would have to look and to see
what was provided, what wasn't. That's that's a legal question and we have to go to the um and to the clerk to see if it's on file. I'm not prepared to answer that question. I don't think anybody else here is prepared to question. So we can't establish if that was here or not to make that part of the record. Once we
find out the information then perhaps we can establish that it was there but none of us up here can provide that information at for you at this time. So so I you know we you can ask us to get it. We can look for it and if we have it we'll provide it. Okay. So, I would like there to be a
report back to us, the council, as to when the matrix report that was apparently done and presented in March of 2019 was received by the administration and what the exact date of the contract is because I have a
contract of a certain date. I don't have a signed copy. So, I'd like to know the timeline and I'd like it to be established for this council and that that to be presented to us at the next meeting. Um the the other question that
I have is I believe that that um council council person um Castelino mentioned that there was a meeting where you were advised that this was not a real concern. Is that correct? you were discussing that that was an
executive session meeting. So, just so everybody understands, executive sessions, okay, are by law an exception to the open public meetings act and you have to take notes and you have to publish the notes of the executive session, but you can't talk about them until the notes are
published. and they're only published once the situation that allowed an executive session to take place is no longer a, for example, a danger to the town's legal uh strategy uh in in the case of a litigation.
Okay. So then I'd like to ask, are those executive session notes now published? This was a meeting that must have taken place in 2019. So I just found it on my server, so I don't know. the administration, but I just want to give you that it was
either March 18th or 19th of 2019. There was minutes of there were actually minutes of um the executive session. So that that would be a question for the clerk. It was a it's and we can we'll ask the clerk.
Okay. And I would like to know if there was legal representation at that 2019 meeting. Again, that goes back to the clerk. and who the legal representation was. So, I just wanted to ask also uh Miss
Carbelloo and the administration um does this mean right now that the township is now on the hook for paying for this cleanup? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Well, hold on. One one thing we we
it's an area of concern. I we haven't done the work to say if there is a true environmental issue here. I don't want to put that out in the public that like there is this major issue that we have to clean up. You're correct. You're hiring or hopefully hiring
uh an engineering firm to do this work and then we would know. Okay. So that's that. Thank you for that correction. So once they do this investigation, then we get a report. Based on that report, hopefully the historic field is nothing
because it doesn't mean that because this historic field is automatically contaminated. But okay, but whatever damage that they do find, we will be responsible for cleaning up. We have to correct. we will have to do our due diligence which would means we
will have to do the bianual testing reporting. Okay. So that brings me to my next question which is that the reason we are focused on this right now is because we have purchased this property and we have
also applied for green acres funding. Is that correct? This is a requirement of the green acres and we to date have we received any green acres money? No, because as part of the uh letter that we received in December of 2024, they gave us basically
a long a laundry list of items that we needed to do. Part of those items were the appraisal which are under excuse I believe it was already submitted to them. Also the P I submitted it to them when I was able to get a hold of this
two reports to so that we wouldn't have to pay for them and to see if they will accept them because that was also up in the air. They came back and now they're asking for the site investigation of this two areas of concern out of the 14 in the report.
Okay. So will the study that chose whatever be acceptable to the Green Acres so that we can then get the money released because it sounds like this is the last thing. I cannot answer that question because
truthfully Green Acres is going to take this site investigation report and is going to give it to their site remediation group at D. They will do the review based on what the results of the inside investigation are. Either they're
going to tell us to do our due diligence and what we have to do in the future or if there's nothing that we need to be concerned about then we will continue with the process and we will submit hopefully the survey by the
end of this month which I reviewed last week. Um and then after that hopefully we'll come to closing. That would be great. So if um if this is a project that we do have to you have to come back and ask us for more funding for to clean up this
project. Is this the kind of thing that takes years to I mean we don't know what it is but but is this something that you in your experience that could be done in a in a at one time in one year or do you
think that this could be possibly be a multi-year project which would then further delay our green acres funding. Until I see the report, I really can't
answer that because they might find something that is maybe not really a health or concern and they might just ask us maybe just to, you know, do maybe
some sort of further investigation every two years or every couple of years. So, you know what I mean? as part of our our how to say this requirements. So meaning they might give us the money and then in 3 years or so we will come back and we'll do our due diligence
which we're doing with all of the other properties and submit what we need to. Right. Let's hope that's the case. That's hopefully will be the best case scenario. Okay. Is there some way that you can make the document that you you're providing to me on Matrix available to
the public? Maybe ask the clerk to put it in. is I have an issue with that in some way online so that residents who are focused on on Rockspring can also see it. I will send it to the um to the clerk. Okay. I actually send it to her this afternoon when I send it to you as well
and I will probably speak to somebody who handles our website from the IT and once it's uploaded. Okay. Thank you so much. So, I just want to reiterate my request that we find out the timeline of when this report was done, when it was presented to the
administration, when the executive meeting took place, and when the contract was signed. And thank you so much. Councilwoman Scarpa is uh been That's okay. My my believe it or not, my question was answered. Thank you. In
Counciloman, so I don't want to put panic out there within the public. So, like these findings as well are safe as far as you like because it's an outside it's not on in a house it's out
an outside area so one area of concern is beneath the parking lot so I wouldn't really like yeah be worry about it you will consider basically the pavement and the thickness of the uh yeah it's capped of the uh DGA as a cap
or as a you know separation I don't want to put panic out there that. So, thank you. I just wanted to clarify that. But in order to get the grant, the state wants everything, you know. I mean, they're doing their deadly job.
Yeah, that's all. Any more discussion, Madame Clerk? 184. 184. Is there consent or do we need a motion? I guess we can do consent. We usually do
We usually have a vote when we pull it. Yeah. Yeah. Let's take a roll, please. Make a motion to approve 180. It's already Isn't already approved? Isn't the motion already approved? I didn't catch that. Oh, well, I didn't hear that. For what? For
I pulled it and I need a second. I think we can do a consent for everything else though. No, no, we're because we're pulling right now. Oh, okay. So, we need a motion for 184-25. I make a motion to approve 184-25. Second.
Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. All right.
And next is I believe 190 and 191. What? Anything else for Miss Carbalo? Well, that would be 190 and 191 I think is the last for Miss Carbalo because we just did. No, those are Jenger. No, 19
I guess because they deal with engineering services. That might be the Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. The CME questions. Yes. These are the questions for the planning and zoning. That's where the This was put up because
of planning and zoning. The 1919 No, this is the contracts for Yes. Right. Yes. For CME and matrix, right? Is that Isn't that something that M We pulled that. So that's Malo. This is you. Can we have you back one
more time, please? Okay. This is 190 191. This is matrix and CME the contracts uh I guess for this year. Yes.
So I I pulled both of these contracts. They are contracts for professional services to our to outside engineering firms. and you may have responded, but some of this I only got at like if if
you did respond and I I got the responses um maybe by 4:30 or something today. So, I apologize if I'm asking you again, but it's it's good for the public to see this too. So, um, my my question
was I really wanted to have a detailed breakdown, uh, particularly with the contract that you you've requested for CME, which has $350 million, of what projects are going on right now, what projects you anticipate going until the
end of the year. And also, I do understand from some of your response that both of these contracts seem to seem to include the fees or anticipated fees for projects as
well as for other professionals that we're utilizing for for these or land use boards or for other projects. And personally I think that these should be separated out so that we can improve based on the professionals and based on
these two companies. Is that possible? So that the council knows I did not write this resolutions. Um why they were written the way they were written I don't know. Um what I could tell you is this.
When I do or pick professional services, I always bring a resolution to the council for your approval for those professional services and there is an agreement or contract that goes along with it. This is basically for the professional engineering services
that being requested since the beginning of the year if I'm not mistaken from you from the council multiple times um for CME and Matrix New World which are both the uh consulting board
engineers for the land use boards if I'm not mistaken either A couple of council meetings ago, you requested um a breakdown of all of the expenses
for CME and matrix and I did provide that to you with every single one of the PO numbers, the resolution numbers, the amounts and which ones actually were sort of like close already and which ones we were still like, you know,
working on um as of right now. I don't expect really much work um being awarded in terms of professional services as we still have to do a capital budget and I still have
I need money in order for it to do that and to award um or do request of proposals for municipal services. um matrix um I believe their expenses have been a lot more this year also not
only because of the site remediation work and that they're also taking over the 25 Lakeside Avenue. So we only have one LSRP for the 55 and 25 but also because as of this year they started being also part of the um land use boards they're doing the
reviews. Okay. Okay. So, um, your contracts t the ones that you write typically tell us what the projects are. Yes. And this does not have it because this, I believe, if I'm not mistaken,
this was written as a generic contract for both engineering firms to do professional engineering services for the township of West Orange, whether it is for the planning department, the engineering department, or whoever needs
their services. I understand what I had asked for since I I started in January was for each of these companies to have a not to exceed for the entire year. What this is providing is a not to exceed from today's date until the end
of the year. So it does not include how much we have each how much we have already paid. So the not to exceed clause is not really exactly what I was asking for. I was asking for an entire year not to exceed. So, and and I think
that the projects that you are doing should be should should be specified in here in each of these contracts that this is what I potentially might be using them for. And there should be there should be a bifurcation between the the jobs that they're doing for
remediation versus the jobs that they're doing to provide consulting work to um the land use boards. I see a lot of billing to land use boards and it's, you know, it's like an it
doesn't stop. So, and and each of those those um professionals within um the the land use the land use boards seem to have the freedom to ask for as much consulting as they want and there
is no not to exceed for that consulting. on that respect. Um you got to understand one thing and the municipal land use law basically sets the rules for this um you know
escrow accounts. Mhm. So every time that a developer it is to bring an application whether it's in front of the planning or zoning they got to provide escrow for the consultants to do their review. When the consultants do their review, they submit a bill to the
township in order for it to be paid. It's no different that when I have inspections, escros for also this companies for the various um land use board applications, they set their fees and the developers
are to pay it. Are they allowed to how would I say this? Question them. The answer is yes. But unfortunately this is just the way it is. So the the fees that they are
setting Mhm. in their in their package, we just accept their rate or do they accept our rate in terms of what we have set as escrow rate for other professionals?
Typically the rate is set I would say probably as a flat fee for be to begin with. Typically, it's like what? $3,000. Sometimes that's what you start off with or 5,000 depending on the size of the application. And then from there, the
applicant escrow starts to be draw down based on the engineer's review, the planner's review, uh the attorney's reviews, and also um I would say how many reviews are they and how many meetings and then when the money starts
to go down, they got to the accounts got to be replenished. So if most of that is coming out of escrow, why is the amount in here so high? Is this related to is this related to consulting work or actual
actual projects like the drilling projects that you've you've spoken to us about? Like I said and I will repeat it again, I did not write this resolution. That's why that's the reason why my name is not after in parenthesis. Every resolution
that I do has my name. I'm the one who writes them. I'm the one who submits them. Okay. This is basically was to satisfy the request from the council in regards to the contracts for the professional
engineering services as it was done on the previous years. And if you notice on the ones from the previous years, there was never a note to exceed because it was basically for escrow accounts, okay, or professional services for the land use boards.
I understand. So I do appreciate that this contract has a not to exceed, but my confusion is that the not to exceed is only for like the next four months and it doesn't it doesn't clarify how much we have spent to date. So Mr. Dinia, can you give us how much we have
spent to date for matrix and for um CME? I I don't have that right in front of me. Um Okay. So, I would like I think it's on one drive. That's where I saw it. Yeah. I mean there but it's all it's all on different spreadsheets because some of it is going towards consulting fees
and some of it is going towards projects. So, I would I would like to request that um if it's all right with you, that Miss Carbella have more of a hand in writing this because these are the people who work directly under her
and that that the fees be broken down so that we are separating out the consulting fees versus the actual projects and that we get a description of why is 350 million is that correct? 3 I think it was at least 350,000
oh 350,000 sorry um why is 350,000 clarify being um requested for CME from now until December 31st. So I think I believe that's the amount of money that we have paid them so far. That's
or the contract that we have given them is I think we need So you're looking for you're looking for January of 2025 to let's say up to date, right? What was their not to exceed? Yes, they're not to exceed and how much have they how much have we paid them to date
and what and separate this out so that would be consulting fees versus projects. Okay. So, I do have another question for you. Yes. You do realize that like for example, and I know this because I'm the one who does the resolutions this year, I really haven't awarded anything to CME on
professional services. Everything that I was awarded, I was awarded last year. So, even though we are paying them this year, it was on last year's tab tab. So like there isn't really much for
me to report other than any uh site remediation work that I might or might not have awarded. And I believe I have maybe one or two and I'm going by memory here. So there isn't really much for me to write
in there. Like I said, I provided a detailed um breakdown of the contracts that we have with CME that are currently open. Mhm. as well as the resolution numbers which I believe most of them were 2024 2023 and the amounts.
So the the uh the spreadsheets or the the reports are on one drive. I can I can pull them out and read them to you if you want to know what the numbers are and they're broken down by both planning and zoning which is the escro stuff and the consulting. So were you able to see it because I think it came in really late tonight.
Yeah. I'm not I'm not so concerned about what what has been spent for escrow. I'm concerned about what has been built to the township. Sure, understand. Um in in this particular case and you know, are you saying that 350
is since nothing has been spent on CME, you're asking for 350 right now? You're not asking. Yeah, you're not asking. So we're at like 104,000 for CME. We're not we're not saying we're going to spend
350. I think we're capping it at that and then we'd have to come back to you. I could understand if if you said, "Well, if you're only at 104 now, why not just make it a smaller NTE?" I could understand that.
Um something burning. What it Yeah. smells like coffee. Make coffee, mister. Um who's trying to stay awake? Sorry, I'm I'm I'm done. So, it was 104,000 for CME, right? With the two numbers combined.
Yes. Uh CO. Okay. Yeah. So I'm not So I think it's easier for what you're trying to accomplish
if there's a resolution for what Miss was coming out of engineering for us and then a separate resolution for planning and zoning because for me the issue is who is keeping track of the spending for
the escrow. I get it. mandatory, the state says, but I've gotten a lot of complaints this year from uh residents and some property owners that, you know, they're getting, you know, one initial uh invoice in the beginning of the process and then again getting another
bill. So, I don't know exactly how all that works or bill, but I know it's going to be really hard to track both and I think it should be, you know, separated out. I mean, it's too confusing with like to your point,
what's the township paying? The township's paying from Miss Carbalo's uh uh the director's bills, but yet who's tracking the consultants for the escrow, and I would assume it would be the a
full-time planner, but we don't have one. So, that's a really good really good point. who's tracking all of that extra spending that is not directly related to a project that Miss Carbella has asked us to
for the land use the land use boards are are track nobody's tracking that spending are in total or per applicant like is your issue that people getting okay so that's a per applicant thing so that's that is the
land use complaints you know they're but you're asking us to prove something here. See, this is what gets tricky with the land use boards because we have to we have to approve the monies so they could spend it. That's what you're
asking us to do. And and and again, I get, you know, that's the way it's set up set up. But then you have to deal with us worrying about how the money is being spent. And then when we get complaints from residents because they call us, not them, we got to ask questions. That's what we're doing.
Yeah. I don't think the NTE is going to change what the land use boards charge the applicants in order to properly assess the applications. I mean, what would we say to them if we hit the NTE? All right, you you you can't charge any
more applicants anymore. They're going to be like, well, then we can't do our job. So, I think there's like two issues. There's the issue of, you know, what is an acceptable amount of money to uh to collect from an applicant to successfully
um review an application. And I don't I don't know what that is, but I think our engineer just said it's the land use law dictates, you know, that they could charge for their services. I mean the planning
department keeps track of all of the applications for the zoning and planning board and the escrow accounts. The department of engineering also has escros, okay, for the inspections for the various land use board applications
that get approved. And you're going to need inspection because I don't have inspectors. We only have one inspector for the entire township. and I rather use that person for our road of capital projects.
We also keep track in engineering of all of the different professional and environmental engineering services that we request. Are are there any non-escrow
fees that are going to the township for for um applications? When you say applications, which application? Anything that is that the Yes. Yeah. We have application fees that we collect as a revenue that you know they
are not used to pay a professional. So there's a delineation between there's an application fee like we just created an application fee for uh storm water. Storm water. No, I don't I don't mean an application fee. I mean are there are there charges
that the township is absorbing for work that Matrix and CME are doing on projects that are not related to to the escro their the escrow accounts. In other words, the plan the planning or the zoning board asked them to do this
for our side. Okay. Yeah. So, you mean for projects where we wouldn't charge an escrow or Exactly. Yeah. I I think the residential, right? Yeah. Um for the residential applications, like let's say something that needs to go to the zoning board, I
do those reviews as the engineer of the township. So that way the residents don't have to put an escrow. However, when the planning portion needs to be reviewed, um I'm sure like so so that is the that
is the money that I'm concerned about and that is what there should be a not to exceed clause because I don't know who at the planning you're saying the planning board and the zoning board review this but the planning board and the zoning board members never review
the charges from what I understand. That's because they're they're part of the board. They make a decision on the application. The administration of the planning and zoning board happens through the planning department. So, who is overseeing that? The total amount of money that has been requested
that is not going to department. She she the director of the department oversees the applications and and any funds that are submitted they they track and record and they and they provide to the finance department and whether it be into regular or or escrow whatever account
and I'll I'll let him speak more directly about that but that that goes through the the planning director is that the planning director is is charting all the fees that the township pays to understand an application that that we're absorbing. So, and
there's no not to exceed. So, if the if the that's what these are two separate issues. There should be a not to exceed on consulting fees that the township absorbs, not the escrow, although possibly the escrow. And there should be a not to exceed on projects that the
engineering department is working on. And so, I'm going to ask that this be redone. That's basically tonight. Yeah. Table this tonight. Have this come back. have input from Miss Carbelloo in in terms of how this should be how this should be separated out. We understand
that you're going to need more money for the rest of the year, but it it seems like a big ask if you've only spent 104 to that the ask is 350. So, if I understand correctly, you're looking for four resolutions. Two correct will be coming from my department basically on
the professional and environmental engineering services for those two firms. And then you're also asking for two resolutions that will deal directly with the land use boards escrow account. Correct. Correct. And I hope that next
year when when these engineering companies come before us at the beginning of the year that we get a not to exceed clause. It seems a little, you know, late to be doing that when we're not seeing the full picture of spending. Well, I guess probably the best way to do would be maybe looking at the year
prior, how much money we have spent with them and maybe adding an maybe an additional 10 to 15%. And also having the information about what you need the money for because last year you might have done a lot of work. This year maybe you're you're doing less. I think we've we've covered that. Is that
Oh, we're covered. I was thinking maybe we did that 20 minutes ago. Well, that's just me. Now I get it. You you summarized it perfectly. Four resolutions. Okay. Any more discussion? Nope.
I think at this point we need a motion to table. Motion to table uh resolution 190 and 191. I'll second it. Any more discussion? Madam clerk.
Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. All right, the motions carry. Motion is tabled. We'll see it next time.
Council, thank you so much. Have any questions on the ordinances? So, I I really would like to get the director home if we could. Yes. On second reading. So, I just if we could ask our colleagues I mean I'm good on those ordinances. I don't think
I'm good. You good? Which ones? Uh the second and first reading, though we're not talking about them. I mean, I don't I'd just like to get her home. I'm not I don't have any questions for her. Yes. No. No questions. I don't want to her have to sit here for another Okay.
half an hour. So, here's a question. Have we have we done consent on the balance of the resolutions? No. No. Okay. So, now we got to go back to the beginning. Okay. I'm just checking to see if I had any questions on the ordinances. I don't think I
I think Oh, she answered. We haven't discussed all of them. I think you pulled 172-25 182-25 and I 185. Okay. But but that's not
she. Okay. So, what's next, Madam Clerk? 172 or what's the other one? Uh, you pulled 172. Yes. Okay. Is there any Did you want more? Do you have one that's in a lower number? That's I was just going to do it in order. Okay. So,
172-25. I pulled it. Uh, uh, it's the 2025 contract for the planning board attorney. So, I I mentioned earlier in the meeting, I'm not going to go back over it, but
I'm concerned about the operations of the planning board in terms of which one the 172-25. Okay. In terms of
legal compliance with the provision of materials that an applicant needs to conduct their application and also for anyone else who is involved whether
they're an objector or just the public. So that means videos of meetings, audios of meetings, actual transcripts of the meetings and the minutes. And we have heard from Mr. Panulo
at the last planning board hearing, special hearing on West Essex Islands and also tonight and I think at the previous council meeting that he was complaining that and he represents West uh we care NJ which is an objector in
the case and he's complaining that their uh the objector's efforts are being hindered because they do not have timely provision of the transcripts, the recordings, and the
minutes. And so I just asked to try to address this situation because I would think that the uh planning board attorney would be responsible for compliance, particularly legal compliance. So, I
just asked the questions. Please provide a list of every video, audio, recording, transcript, and minutes of the hearings of the PB-24-01 West Essex Highlands application that are not available to participants, including objections in the public. Please provide a list of the last five
video, audio recordings, transcripts, and minutes of the hearings uh in that application that have been made available to participants in the public and the date that each was made public. Please make provide a list of any other 2025 planning board hearings in which the recordings, transcripts, and minutes
are not yet available to participants and the public. And I'm just trying to get an idea I if this is a an issue just for West Essex Highlands or even if there is an issue
for West Essex Highlands or whe there's also an issue for the rest of the planning board applications so that we can determine if the uh planning board attorney is actually demonstrating uh that uh in this area that she is uh
complying with the requirements of the office and I didn't get any of these any of these uh this documentation council president I did I didn't see this till late I did send you two emails
later so if you go to the planning board site where it says planning board on it and there is recordings actually up until the July 30th meeting I believe for the all the planning board it's audio I could not locate video on here. I
asked Mr. Fagan. He doesn't do that and upload it. So, I don't know. I'd have to follow up about the video, but the audios are there. Now, as far as the transcripts are, my understanding, and I'm not sitting in the planning board. I don't go to the meetings. The transcriber is actually paid for by the
applicant. So, I don't know if they're required to provide them to the board or to or to the objectors. I don't know that for certain. I'm not going to say that it should. and maybe Mr. Burken behind on that. I don't know. Um, but I know that I'm looking right now for you
to go on here. We have the June 4th transcript. I think it's the most recent that we have up on on the website. Okay. So, there is there is documentation that is up on the board up on the on the site planning board site and it's these and I
sent it to you with a link to it so you can it's in it's in the email I sent to you earlier tonight. I don't know which day of the what time I sent it to you, but um it was actually it was at 5:47
and it has it has uh the answers from Miss Adams. She was in court today. Her and I I had a staff meeting with the directors. So, I didn't get to this email till later. I apologize, but she was in court all day and she was trying to in between the court sessions and she didn't get out of court till 4:00 to get
this this information. So, I did provide it to you. Here's the uh you know I can get you the you know the actual site where the recordings are. So but it is on it is on the website. Okay. Okay. Mr. Fagen had his hand up. I know he's not remember the day is but
uh Mr. Maldo, I can confirm for you because I am the moderator for the West Essex Highland meetings that the transcriber is paid for by the applicant and the issue had come up at one previous meeting that the objector wanted the copy of the transcripts and
the uh applicant refused saying if you pay the fee you can have them. So, but I can confirm that the uh transcriber is paid for by the applicant. Yeah. Thank you. So, so that so that is out of the purview of of Miss McGovern. And this contract that we're discussing
tonight really doesn't have to do that. This is what you're asking for is more of an administrative function from the planning board putting this up. You know, our our secretary, she she handles it. She puts these things up as they come along and she's the one who takes care of the minutes. So, and that's more of an administrative function, not a
legal function. compliance may be part of the legal, but as as I can see right here, the special planning board July 30th is right here. So, I don't know when the last the recording or the minutes or the trans the this is the uh audio recordings. I'm trying to find the uh
the minutes. So, but I I could see the the audio is right here, right? No, I I can see that too. That's why I asked what are the last five items that were uh made public. Actually, let me see the email I sent to you. So,
and grass scripts and and I don't want to be argumentative, but when you send me an email at 5:47 when the council meeting starts at 6:30, I it's no I I understand I I apologize. Like I said, we this some of this information we was getting cross referenced. We had
whatever the reasons were and um but I did send it to so the 64 transcript was made available on 86. the 4:30 transcript is up to so the the latest transcript that's up on the website according to this email is that it was from June 4th um
June 23rd 30 716 and 7:30 have not been received but the minutes from 64 2330 716 7:30 7:30 are um are not available yet for the minutes so she's going to well actually that's actually 64 it says
was made public um last week so soon as they have them they'll get them out there, but the audio is available that goes up automatically and um you know transcripts are as Mr. Fagan indicated that I knew that that the objector was I mean the applicant was paying for it and I I believe that you know they said that
they wanted they have pay you know the objectors have to pay for it. We're not we're not even getting copy of it for free. Councilman Ren um these meetings are being recorded on Zoom. Is that correct? I believe so. Some of them are
and we have a Zoom moderator. He was sitting right over there, right? But he was only only recordings are going up online, right? Why there is some video? There is some video. But this the what I what I'm seeing online and
have only seen online are are recordings. I would like to request that the videos which are being done be put up instead of a re recording because it is very hard for somebody else to listen go back and find certain moments to do
this with just a with just a recording. Why not just put up the the the video like like they do with the council? I can't answer that question. Mr. B is here to ask. But the but the the okay the issue of the of the um the videos one it's not required by law we're to
put a video up we have an audio um I think it's more of a courtesy that we do that including the council meetings um but Joe could you answer why we don't put the videos up from since you're you're the moderator to clarify you're the moderator of the of the special meetings correct that's correct uh
do you do you have you been asked to place the Zoom videos on the website no I have not and my understanding is that it's uh at the discretion of the respective chairman uh chairperson for the uh planning or the zoning board
whether or not they want to place the video online. Uh that is my understanding but okay we can follow up with that. Okay, I think that would be that would be much easier for the the public to follow if it was the same thing that
that is already being recorded. Um, and the other thing is that for the minutes, I think that was raised by Mr. Panula. The minutes that are up on the website, the last minutes is February 2025.
We're now in not according to what I have in front of me. Okay. I'm looking at the website as well. I I didn't look on the website for the minutes, but um What are you looking at, Mr. Smarlet? I'm I'm right on our our township website, the planning Right. But you are
you are you getting a report of when the minutes are available or are you actually seeing the available? No, I'm I'm seeing the available recordings right here. Not recordings. Yeah. No, I'm looking for the the minutes right now. I have I have an email from Miss Adams that says that's what I have over here. I have an email.
Okay. So, I'm looking I'm looking to see if where these are. M. So I I see if you go into a a different tab, you can see some a little bit further on on the uh a
little bit deeper on the planning board. So I see one on February 26, 2025, April 30th, 2025, and June 4th, 2025. And there were lots of meetings in between. So, it does not seem like
it's a full reflection of the of the meetings that took place. It's a little out of order, too, cuz it's like April 16th is on there. April 9th, April 2nd, March 12th, February 12th, January 22nd, 29th.
You have this mixed in with 2024 dates as well. So, yeah, this needs to be cleaned up because this is this is what exactly what Mr. entrepreneur is reporting that he doesn't have access to this because it's not done well.
He has access to it. I mean, I think he was stating that there there wasn't anything past January and you know, I don't know when he looked, but if you look at this just you look at the top, it's not it's not typical that somebody would have to drill down all
the way into this to find a minute that is halfway in the middle of the page. It should be in order. So I could understand. Yeah. No, I agree. I agree. But I think, you know, you take a quick look at it and you see that there's other in 2025.
Thanks. We have June 4th on here. Um I'm looking out here, June 4th. So, and that's what that's what the director wrote. The latest one is June 4th. So, we have going back. They maybe they they're not in assemblance order, but but the minutes
are we have a June 4th here. So, April 30th. So, the So, they're here. We'll make them We'll put them in order, though. Okay. But this this Well, we'll we'll talk to the director and get it get them in a in an
assemblance of order that's u uh on Well, it should be in order, and it also should have a correct summary of what took place. This has almost no summary of what took place. It just says who's attending. So, I think that, you know, I'd like to
address address the concerns of the community and have this have this taken have this looked at now the minutes are taken that's that's an administrative function that's not a that's not still that's not a function MC yeah so we need to move on okay are are you finished councilwoman
I want you to follow up on what you said yes um but uh both uh Counciloman Castelino and Counciloman Scarper want to speak so I just wonder wanted if you just want to yield Councilomani no I I'm good my my point being was I I don't think this is her function. But I'm glad you brought up those talking
points because I mean this is part of, you know, the due diligence of I don't know if the the it was supposed to take care of that or or whoever, but um yeah, we we got to move on and I'm I'm good. I'm not going to make any more statements.
Council Scarpa, it's getting late. Yeah. Um I really feel that given the importance to our community of this application and the level of interest that we have and we have had I have had
people coming to me and asking me where they can find more information. It's imperative it's actually unconscionable that we don't have the videos up there after every meeting. I would like us to make sure that that happens immediately and that we straighten out all of these
other issues and find the person who is responsible for having this done and get it done right away. This is this is unconscionable. I'm done. Thank you. We clearly need to move along uh move
on. And but my my question is whether the planning board attorney is responsible in some way with making these materials available on a timely basis for the applicant and for the
public. And that's the issue I'm raising is because I I I want to make sure that uh the planning board attorney thinks that this is important and and I don't know the law, so I don't know what her exact legal responsibilities are, but it
certainly sounds like the materials are not being made available on a timely basis. And I'd really like the my planning board attorney, like any attorney like Mr. Burke to be responsible for legal compliance.
No, it it sounds like we're not getting uh it sounds like we're not getting complete compliance on the availability of these material. I'm going to disagree with you in the in the sense of yes, Mr. McGovern is responsible for legal and everything
else regards to the opinions, but when it comes to the administration of these particular items, the vid the minutes, that's the board secretary, which is one of our employees. Um, she has other responsibilities. As to why it's not completed yet, I don't know that answer and I'll have to find out. But this is
really more of an administrative function than it is a legal function. And and if we're not doing anything, which we are doing things here, um I have actually the director calling me right now. Hold on one second. Yes. Would you like to get on
maybe? Yeah. Can we just wrap this up? Yeah, maybe we just take So So could you uh Are you on the on the screen right now? Joe, can you wait paid? That's not the issue. Is Janice on there? Can you see Janice?
Um, okay. So, all right. So, the email, which one was it that you sent? I can just take Okay. Yeah. No, I know. No. Which one was it? You Yeah, I have you. You sent me two or three of them. That's what I'm asking.
So, is this the recent amendments to the Fair Housing Act? Not that one. No, not that one. We shut the arrow off so I can I can read it to the record. Yeah, I know. I know I did. I'm just trying to There was a there's a B emails
um Yeah, I know. Okay, I think I have it. Okay. So, so there's so Okay. So, so I have the uh the director here and it's according to and it's an email that I did send to you again later
today, council president um from from Miss McGovern opined on it and it was that basically they have up to they can have up to under the law up to six months to to get these if and she and according to director if not more let me
put you on I don't know if you can hear um if you can hear but if not more and um I did send it. So it's Yep. Diane sent it while I was in court and I forwarded it to you. Yeah. NJSA4
55D9T states, "Minuts of regular or special meeting shall be kept and shall include the names of persons and addressing the municipal agency and or persons appearing by the attorney actions taken by the municipal attorney. findings if any made by it and re reasons therefore the minutes shall thereafter be available for public um
inspection during the normal business hours of the office of the administrative officer. Any interest in interested party shall have the right to compel production of the minutes for use as evidence in illegal proceeding. Such interest party may be charged a reasonable fee for reproduction of the minutes and use and
there's many more. I don't see where it said it just says reasonable time and then she cites the case law various applicants who have had the same concerns where minutes have not been
posted for over 6 months to a year. The superior court has issued opinion at a reasonable time. The secretary for the planning board who was handling West's Highlands only has
to know the attendance and exhibits and attach the transcript. That's the only thing that's required by the law and it's much more detailed than any secretary notes
can take. Mr. Pulo said he doesn't want to read the transcripts. That's not an excuse for us. The transcripts are posted along with the attendance and exhibit that's required by law. And that was stated at the last meeting. It was
stated to council president when we met a week ago. So, so we we need to move on. We moved. Now, Councilman Scarp, Miss Adams, thank you very much for doing this. This is uh uh above and
beyond. Uh but I can't process all this information in real time and and I need to confirm and consider it. Uh, and we've identified, I think tonight, a a real issue with
communication between the administration and the council. And we we got to get this fixed because what we wind up doing is communicating during a council meeting. And it's it's 12:00. It's way too It's way inefficient. So, I
I know that's not your I know that's not your issue, but but people also need to understand council. I was in court all day and preparing yesterday, right? 30 40 questions. Not a criticism of you at all. I
understand you are probably the busiest person in the township. I I understand that and I I I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying we we've got to get this issue fixed. It's it's much larger than any one of us. So, I I want you to go back I want you to go back to whatever
the heck you were doing that's is a million times more important than what you're doing now. So, I appreciate you coming at me. Thank you, Jinx. Yes, thank you. Yeah, we'd like to get a help. Okay, so uh Councilwoman Scarpa, I think had her hand up. Yeah, just real quick, I want to say
whatever, you know, um loopholes there are in the law that'll allow us six months or whatever. This is not the way we should be doing business, those videos have to go up immediately and we have to streamline the procedure so the documentation gets up there in a timely fashion. Thank you. That's all I want to
say. Okay. Um, it looks like we're finished discussion. Let's let's have a motion. Is the motion to approve the contract or is the motion to table to get more time to consider?
I mean, I'm good. If you're not, then you make the I'm not I I I can't I can't do all this data stuff in real time. I just Well, the the the attorney's still getting paid. Starting getting paid. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, she's okay then. Okay.
All right. Go ahead. Let's go. Let's move it. So I I move to uh table uh one 73 two two 172. I'll second. Any further discussion?
No, I just want to make sure she was getting paid still. Someone hold up her payment. Madam clerk, motion to table. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak,
yes. The motion carries. Great. Thank you. Um, and I just just want to say, Council President, just, you know, if everybody could get comfortable for next meeting because we got to, you know, I I I know
there's been challenges here, but we we need to clean up. Totally agree. Totally agree. Trying to trying to get through this uh fast as possible. What's next? You pulled 182. Yeah, I I was good. I don't 182 is the duplicate tax sale
certificate pursuant. I just asked the question about whether the the apparent defects that I see in the resolution render it invalid. And I I still don't have the answer. So, I I don't know what
to do about this except m maybe just Can we amend it? Can we amend the resolution to make the corrections? I I suppose so, Mr. Burke. Yeah, you can amend the the resolution. If there's a a legal question though, I may not be able to give you that answer right now, but if it's just correcting a
typo or something like that, you can absolutely No, it is not. Um, it it uh I'm sorry, I'm just looking for my notes. It's a duplicate resolution authorizing the issuance of a duplicate tax bill
certificate. Yeah. I don't know why I can't find my notes because I asked the question I asked the questions in my in my emails to the administration. I don't know. Was this the one that received like a year instead of a date?
Yes. Yes. And it says it says um and it's it's it's the wrong uh the wrong year. Yeah. Okay. So, the first paragraph it says, "Tax clicker uh previously issued a tax sales certificate of Trevor which
certificate is dated January 18th, 2000." Okay. Just remember that. All right. January 18th, 2000. Then it was supposedly uh recorded on January 24th, 2000. Right. So far so good. Then you go
down to the is it the third paragraph? Okay. So then if you go on the page two, there's a there's an affidavit here. Okay. Okay. And on point two in the affidavit on the second page, it says, "This tax sale certificate was duly
recorded in the office of the county clerk for the county of Essex on January 24th, 2000, like we mentioned earlier, and was subsequently assigned September 7th, 2016. All right, that was that was almost four years previous.
And unless there's some sort of time machine that they're using, it's it's it's an it's a sworn affidavit and it doesn't look like it's true. Well, and you know what the I know that's her that's her stamp.
This dated the 16th. She witnessed the signature on the 16th of September. So that was a few days later. So is a is an incorrect or or faulty affidavit is that enough to render this we're talking about a we're talking about a financial instrument of value
here. Well, this gets this gets recorded, right? I understand that. But yeah, so no, I'm just saying we need to be careful. We need to be careful because it needs to be correct. We're talking about we're talking about
a certificate that might be it might have a value of uh you know eight or 9,000 $900,000. It's not just the right to receive the that sale to someone else.
So, Mr. Diniac, are you are you figuring this out? So, it looks like the looks like the second date. Well, yeah. No, the second date is correct.
Okay. So, it says the certificate was recorded Yeah. in 2000 and then subsequently, you do see the word subsequently. Yeah. Assigned four years earlier. That just can't be, can it?
Yeah. I mean, I'm not I think I probably what she meant was it was dated January 18th, recorded with the county on the 24th when they actually issued the certificate, and then it was assigned in 2016.
So, So the s here it wasn't recorded until January 24th of 2000. But that doesn't make sense because like you said, yeah, the dates aren't Maybe it's late,
but I don't see how this all matching up. Well, the original recording was 124 2000 and then it looks like it was signed in 2016. So that's that's 16 years later, not four years earlier, right? Yeah. Why would
Oh, you Oh, you're right. I don't have it in front of me because it's not on that site 2000 to 2016, but it does say it was recorded in in the book number 124 on 20 on 2000. So yeah, this is very
confusing and then it wasn't tested until July 26 of 2025. just a so that doesn't make sense either. Well, so I I I just want to raise the issue
because if it's if it's invalid, then I don't know. I don't have any background information to to give you any any. Okay. Any further discussion? No, I guess legal strength.
Okay. I motion to table. Second. Any further discussion? Madame clerk. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak,
yes. The motion carries. Thank you. I think that's it. No. Next is 185, which I pulled. Sorry. Okay. You want to pull that? You want to keep that pulled, right? You're going to
get information. Yes. I want to pull this. Um, this has been part of our budget discussions and I'd like to pull this for further discussions um with the DPW director. So, this is 185-2. You've already pulled
it. You want to motion to tape? Okay. I'll second that. Okay. Uh, I think Councilman Ruden made the motion. Councilman Scarpa seconded. Any further discussion? No, just that I spoke to Mr. Reynolds today and he was fine with that. He
couldn't be on the phone tonight available. So, he's more than happy if you have any questions, make sure you uh contact him to, you know, to go over it. Okay. Thank you. Anything else? No. Madam Clerk.
Okay. Motion to table 185. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. I'm going to stop guessing at what's next because I'm always wrong.
She's taking copious notes, so she's good. Nice meeting. We're good. That was it. Michelle, did you pull 187? Um, you were going to Let's see. Uh, that's the one we got to you could ask questions, but
that's the one with the Yes. Okay. Not polls. Yeah. He's got to get that approved. That he needs that one. So, where are we? Did was 187 pulled? No. Okay. So, consent now. Yeah.
Well, we should just we should just consent everything that isn't pulled or questioned, right? Yes. And haven't we already done that? No. But we haven't. Everything up to the resolutions, I think, was already consented. So, the bills and everything, but not the remains resolutions. Okay. So what we typically do is we list
all the ones that are pulled, all the ones that were asked questions, and then we everything's left over is consent. So just so I'm going to bring up one 186. It this is the resolution for the municipal
housing. What's an andor? It's an andor. Well, it's an andor. So I thought you guys were going to double team it. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I mean, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. That's how it's listed, right? Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Okay. I just want to make sure we brought it up. That's all. Yes.
Okay, we're good. Okay. Say 187-25. I think that's the next one that's pulled. No. Is that No, it's not pulled. So, we have no more polls. No more. No more polls. Could consent. Maybe. Maybe. Let's just consent. Do you want to just Do you want to just
review what was pulled and then we'll consent on the rest? Would that be okay? Or do you want me to just read the ones that you're going to consent on? Yeah, do that. That'll be easier. Okay. Okay. So, this is for consent. We have 171-25. We have 181-25,
186-25, 187-25, 188-25, and yeah, that's it. And we approved 183, the storm water one. We did that. Yes. I initially pulled it,
but then I then I withdrew my pull. So 18325 is also on consent. Yeah. Thanks for Thanks, Counciloman Kesler. I was missing my I'm still like not for long and and 180 189. I guess we already
voted on that. That's correct. We approve that. Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. I'll second. Okay. All in favor? I I.
All right. Consent agenda is implemented. Okay. On a roll. Ordinances on second and final. Yeah. Should do that. Okay.
22 2932-25 an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-7.3 temporary parking prohibition for snow pling and removal subsection 7-12 parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance subsection 7-14.1C
night parking restricted and subsection 7-14.7 alternate side parking of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange Carbalo. Okay. These are the ones from the traffic uh study engineer.
Yes. But I'm not going to read that. Never get through it. Okay. So, uh motion to introduce on second. I'll make a motion. A second. Okay. Any disc we don't usually Well, we do
discuss on second. In fact, we have a public hearing. Yeah. First, she's got a roll call. The introduction, right? The intro. Yes. Then I'm gonna Okay. So, um, Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes.
Okay, here. Now is the time for public hearing on ordinance 2932-25. Anyone who wishes to speak, uh, please be recognized by the chair and you'll have five minutes to speak. Seeing
nobody uh in the audience, I close the public hearing and suggest we have a motion to approve. I make a motion to approve. Second. I'll second. Okay.
Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Great. We are now on to introduction of on second reading of ordinance 2933-25
and ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-7.3 temporary parking prohibition for snow plowing and removal subsection 7-10.2 Two, stopping or standing prohibited during certain hours on certain streets
on certain days. Subsection 77-12 parking prohibited or street cleaning and maintenance. Subsection 7-14.1 night parking restricted and subsection 7-14.7 alternate side parking of the revised
general ordinances of the township of West Orange. I make a motion to introduce. Second. Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes.
Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay. Now is the time for the public hearing for ordinance 2933-25 without repeating the title just to specify that it uh updating the parking regulation on Franklin Avenue between Main Street and Cherry Street to allow
more parking for the local residents. I make a motion to introduce. No, we've already I just got a approved. Right. So, if anyone wishes to speak on this, this is now the time for a public hearing. If anyone wants to speak, please raise your hand, be recognized, and you have five minutes to speak.
Seeing no one, I close the public hearing and ask for a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Second. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak.
Yes. The motion carries. Thank you. Now, uh is the introduction of ordinance 2934-25, an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7, traffic subsections 7-32.2,
restricted parking zones of the revised general ordinances of the township of West Orange. This is for a uh restricted handicapped uh space on WHung Avenue. Do I have a motion to introduce?
Motion to introduce. Second. Second. Okay. Did you I was too lazy. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa,
yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Now is the time for a public hearing on ordinance 2934-25. If you wish to speak on this ordinance, you uh raise your hand and be recognized
by the chair. You have five minutes to speak on this subject only. Seeing none, I close the public hearing and request a motion or discussion. Anybody want to discuss? No.
Motion to approve second reading or second whatever. Yes. Council's first. We're on a roll. Thank you. All right. Councilwoman Castelino, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes.
Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Great. Ordinances on first reading. First ordinance is 2936-25, an ordinance amending chapter 15, section 15-7
to update the township's rent control ordinance. Any motion? Make a motion to introduce a second. Is there any discussion? Yes, I have discussion.
Please, I have a comment. This is something that um updates our township's rent control ordinance. It was due in three years ago and it and it was not done and now it's
being used retroactively. This is something that was um written by legal. So I assume that legal is responsible for this and I'd just like to understand how this oversight happened that it was not renewed in three years.
So first of all it's not three years. It's actually since last November, October, November. Um and this is one of these laws that every two years is supposed to be reviewed by the council. Last year the previous council uh wanted to address this. It was brought up to
them several times. whatever happened, it just didn't get taken care of. And for the this part, the first part of the year was an oversight. We realized it. We said, "We got to adjust it. We got to fix it. So, we're bringing it to you so that it goes back to retro because it is still being enforced um based on the
case law that was provided by legal. We could still enforce this as long as it's passed by ordinance from this council to make sure that it goes um it um you know it it's approved through you so that we can go back date and keep this in check.
This happened um this actually happened in two councils ago. It was realized also because it it wasn't actually enforced in five years I believe and we we adjusted it then and this was as I said last year the uh one of the
council people without saying who was hot and heavy about changing this and everybody wants to change this it's been through several council people. It's one of those challenges that becomes we think we want to get done and it's daunting because of the especially the
the fees and we've we've heard here recently in many council meetings how people want to come here. They have problems with the rent control and so um it's never been solved yet. Uh doesn't mean it can't be, but it's just nobody nobody seems to have that extra appetite
to either raise the fees or lower the fees and then all of a sudden become silent. So unfortunately it it fell by the wayside again last year and during an election season when it was supposed to come through and it just happened and uh and then all of a sudden here we are now and we're we're trying to remedy
this this situation to make sure we're back online. That's all. Time to fix it in a non-election season. Yeah. Well, that's it. I mean now's the time to fix it if you're going to fix it. But it's a very hot topic and you know um I know and the the council person that was in involved was actually
seeking help from other municipalities and it just unfortunately just didn't come to fruition. Okay. Anything else council? Nothing else. Okay. Any uh discussion? No. Nope.
Okay. Council Katina. Uh yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. The motion carries. Thank you. Ordinance 2937-25,
an ordinance for calendar year 2025 to exceed the municipal budget appropriation limits and establish a cap bank. Do I hear a motion? Oh, no. We Well, we can't discuss unless we That's right. me. Um,
I'll say something about it, but I don't Okay, I I move to uh introduce on first uh reading. Okay, I I'll second that so we could have a discussion. Great. Great. And please carry on.
Oh, okay. Oh, we're there. Okay. So, the discussion is this. Um, I know there wasn't uh support for this one. I had a c conversation with Mr. Diniac today. Um, this is, you know, standard uh
procedure. We've done it in other years, but we're we're about one less than 1% of a budget increase this year. Um, so I don't think, you know, we I you know, we'll be okay. So, I don't think it had the support, so I'm okay with not
approving it this year. it will come up again next year and then we could re uh determine uh if there's support for it next year. Okay, we're not going to get fined. There's not, you know, it's right. This is this happens every every
year. Standard standard stuff and it and and whatever it is, it is. And uh uh you know, if we can if we can bank it, then we bank it. And if we want to use the bank, we the council can do that. But uh doesn't look like we're
doing that this year. That's for sure. But right do we do I understand this Mr. Zenia? Yeah money. Nobody's spending money. Unless my colleagues have a change of heart. I you know I just let's this I don't want to spend 10 minutes on this.
Right. I agree. Is there any further discussion? Madame clerk. Councilwoman Castelino. Um, I I'll I'll be I want to go last. Okay, go last. I'll go last. Councilwoman Ruden,
no. Councilwoman Scarpa, no. Council President Koviaak, yes. And Councilwoman, I'll go I I'm going to go no. Okay. It's a non matter this year, so non-issue this year. So, we'll revisit
it next year, but I have supported it in years past. Okay. make a motion to close the meeting. I think there's new business that has to be forgotten about. Oh, we need a date. I also want to I also have some new
business. Okay. Uh so now we're on new business. There's nothing on the on the uh agenda. So in order to add something, I think we need four votes. So does anybody want to add something to discuss? It's new business.
Oh yes. I would like to add something to discuss. So, the floor vote requires uh supermajority. If you're going to put something on during a meeting, they call a floor vote. So, somebody needs a second. Wait, we got to we got to make the motion first. We got to know what we're
talking about. Wait one second. Council Ruden has us in suspense. I think we're talking about two different things. So, I want to This is new business. Yes. You want to talk about the ordinance amendment, right? But are we passing it right now?
No, we cannot pass it. Okay. So, cannot pass. I'd like remember Mr. Tran says that we as a council have to approve it in new business and then it can go on the agenda for an act.
Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah, I have a bad headache. So, whatever. I'm sorry. Yeah, whatever. So, um I'd like I'd like to add um a clarification to our chapter 27 for the tree protection removal and replacement. Um
we saw tonight that there's a there is a problem with the removal of the tree of heaven and I have proposed some language that would clarify that problem. And I I think everybody has received that and
I'd like to request that this be put on the agenda for first reading next time. And then you say so moved. So moved. Is there a second? A second. So I want to just discuss real quick. Just discuss.
So my my big issue and again I'm just you know just heard about it tonight. So, I'm in no way moving to talk about more, you know, different trees, but I I know the they're a problem this lantern. I and I feel for Mr. Cohen immensely.
What I'm worried about is I need more information and wrap our heads around. We passed this and somebody can't afford it. They have these trees and now we pass this and they can't afford to take it down. Uh, how much grant money is out
there? Like I don't want to the answer tonight. Like I said, my head is killing me. So I'd just like to get out of here quick. But if I could get all those answers before the next meeting, I'm willing to entertain it. Otherwise, I you know, we got to focus on the budget.
Okay. So, uh this there we just received $20,000 of grant money. I realize that that's not going to go to a private resident unless the private resident really needs it, but there is a lot more money out there. um for removal of tree
of heaven. I know, but you have this and there's no grant money. There isn't any grant money hanging around. There is. We just got $20,000. I know. But say we don't say there's all these trees all over the place. People are reporting them because that's what we do here. We're going to pass something they're going to report. Like
how are we going to keep up with that's all you have to answer it tonight. But I'm worried about again imposing on the staff is going to do staff support and if somebody can't afford to take it down. Um how do we you know work around that? So I just got to get more
information about that's all. I'm not saying I'm not going to support it. I just can't deal with it tonight. The the um requirement to remove the tree of heaven is already in our tree ordinance. Yeah. What's happened now is that legal has issued another opinion
about this and normally when you have an ordinance like our tree ordinance it supersedes anything pre-existing but in that case I feel that this is being selective enforcement on this particular issue. So, the proposal that I'm putting forward just reiterates what we've
already said, which is that we've already put in the original ordinance that these trees need to be removed because they do so much damage to properties and to our environment. So, your what your concern is, I hear, but
we already addressed this when the tree ordinance was was passed a year ago. This was all always part of that ordinance and now we're just clarifying that what steps need to be taken in terms of erosion control, mandatory
removal and replacement. So I mean there's a this man is going to have a lot of trees taken off his property, but they will be replaced Yeah. by little trees with native trees. This is an invasive tree that And who's paying to replace his native
trees? He will. These are trees that are not allowed according to our ordinance. No, you're talking thousands of dollars for someone. Thousands. Right. But what this is doing is just supporting an ordinance that we already created. Yeah. But we didn't make it mandatory
that it had to come down and that people We did. We did. In the ordinance specifically spells out that tree of heaven are invasive and they must be removed. We already did that. So then why can't that just be enforceable? Exactly.
Okay. So again, my brain's not wrapping around it. If I can interrupt real quick. Just a second. Let Councilwoman Castle will finish. Yeah. No, no. I I get it. I like to talk to another town, see how they're handling and managing it. Uh I'm not, like I said, I'm not against it. I just
don't want to throw something on there next meeting, spend all my time, you know, learning about uh uh these bugs and more trees when we're not even done with the budget. So, I'm just trying to prioritize where we need to to go with
stuff. So, I hear you. I mean, if you need support to put on the if the support's there for the next meeting, I'll do what I have to do. I just like a little breather. But again, that's I know for the resident that came. And I'm sure there's other residents that they
would drive I I agree. I would be going crazy if they were in my yard. Absolutely crazy. So all I just want to remind is that legal has made an opinion on this. The more we talk about this in public is probably more detrimental. I could speak to you offline as to what's going on
here, but I would suggest to you that we just stop discussing this any further this evening if we want to put it on and if any proposals that are come on to change the ordinance has to go through legal anyway. So send it to us and we'll send it to legal and we'll do that. But
in this particular case, I'm not going to comment because it may be detrimental. So call me and I'll speak to you about it. Okay. Okay. And I just want to follow up on that. that to me this does not make sense. Legal can issue an an opinion and
we as council people should be able to discuss what legal's opinion is. It's not a secret. It's already come out to go into close session to the resident because it's litigation. There's not litigation on this. There's no litigation. There is no litigation on this. If we want to discuss a legal opinion,
we should go into close session. So we can discuss it all you want. We can go into close session for three hours and argue about it. But we should go into close session to talk about a legal opinion and whether we disagree with she's talking about the theory of a legal opinion. She's not talking about a legal opinion. As far as I know, we there isn't legal opinion that exists.
I'm sorry. Can I could I just finish, Mr. Rick? Just really quick. We're not talking about a specific legal opinion. I don't even know for sure that a legal opinion exists. I asked for one today from Okay. from the town attorney. So I think she's speaking theoretically
because we don't have one. So and perhaps Mr. Smaldo is is is speaking theoretically too. So please now go ahead. No, I was just going to say it sounded like the the concern was if there's a legal opinion and it's disagreed with, why can't we discuss it? We can discuss
it as much as you'd like, but we should discuss it in closed session and not in open session. Okay. But we don't have a co we don't have a legal opinion so we can't discuss it. Right. Yeah. I think everyone's talking hypothetically right now. Right. Okay. So
Yep. Well, it's it's not completely hypothetical because we do have an ordinance. The tree forester went out to this particular property, circled all the trees, said that these trees need to
be removed, and then was later told, "We're not going to be enforcing this ordinance." Yeah. So, that was the the without going into specifics, that was the ruling and our ordinance is no longer being enforced.
Okay. So, let's just stop talking about it. We we really need to follow Mr. Burk's uh guidance and direction. So why don't we uh uh we either further discuss the proposed amendment
aside from any sort of legal opinion or we just uh we vote to Okay. I make a motion to put this on for ne for first reading at our next council meeting. Is there a second? Yeah, I'll second it. Well, if you're going to run the meeting, I I I really need to
Maybe I'm just trying to learn. No. Uh so, so, so there's a uh uh a motion in a second uh to accept this. It's going to require I think it Well, we already took the vote to add it to discuss it, right? We had a 40 vote to
discuss it. Okay. So, this is this is the motion to approve this in terms of moving it forward to get it on the agenda for first reading. But this copy, that's the problem. This may need to be altered. So I I don't want to commit to
this copy. Don't we have a deadline of when we could Yes, we should. That's a good idea. We should have a deadline of when this can be circulated back to us so that we can see it before first reading. Yeah, I think the town attorney has raised this issue before and has uh and
has required us to start all over uh at least once, if not more times. So, uh, if if you want to continue to discuss it, we can discuss it. But if we if we if if we what we approved tonight needs
to go to the town attorney so that they can put it in shape in in form in order to for us to get it back on first reading. So, if Councilwoman Castle is saying you we got to we may need to change this, maybe
we should change this at least substantively and then then vote on it to go to I I can't deal with this tonight. So, I I'll abstain tonight. Okay. So, I just had one one other issue and it's on section D uh bullet point
one where it says property owner shall replace each removed tree of heaven with one or more native tree and/or subspecies. And I'm just I'm just trying to figure out what do we need to clarify further what or more means.
It has to it has to do with the with the width of the tree. Okay. So, it's it's it refers back to the tree. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, that's not a problem. if it's one or more species to say or more. Okay, that's that was my only thing. And and also just want to make
sure we got the uh uh uh the chapter number correct. I'm not sure whether I'm not sure if it is either. I mean, these are details that the legal department will have to correct. But as so as far as we know right now, nobody
has any other proposed changes except what uh Councilwoman Castle might come up with, right? And I guess we'll have to deal with it. Like that abstain for now. Okay. I'm not saying I'm not going to support it, but I'm not going to say I'm going
to support it based on how it's written. So, okay. I I got I need a couple days to look into it. I'm not I can't do it tomorrow, but I will promise Thursday I'll look at it. Sounds good. Madam clerk, four vote, please. Okay. So, Councilwoman Castelino, you're
abstaining. Yes. Okay. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. Councilwoman Scarpa, yes. Council President Koviaak, yes. Okay. Uh, would that fail then? No, it it's only it only requires a
supermajority to if if it's not on the agenda. So, it's a it's considered a floor motion. Okay. The motion carries. We already did that. Okay. So, majority rules. Yeah.
Okay. Is there any other new business? Good. Let's go. Council President, I I just have one quick question about the ordinance just just in the penalty section. So under part E, each day that a violation
continues after the expiration of the removal period shall constitute a separate offense. And in the existing tree ordinance, each offense is can be punished by a fine not to exceed $2,000. I mean, are we saying like you could max
out at $2,000 a day for something like this? Is that newspaper? This has to do with the the the reason it's very different than removing a a standard tree because this is is so bad for our environment and it causes
um the attraction of the of the spotted lantern fly. This is a nuisance. We have other means that we could be dealing with this. This is a this is one way to deal with it. But the the reason why this violation is is a bit different is
because every day that this is left creates more of a problem. I know it doesn't happen that way with a standard tree that needs to be removed. I'm just pointing it out. Okay. That
that that I mean it gets really it gets unreasonably expensive very quickly. That's the point. Yeah, we definitely Yes. And that's the reason why this had to be dealt with. Yeah, that's the problem. Okay.
Okay. Can we request from the administration that we get this back before the Wednesday of the meeting so that we can all send it to legal? Yeah. And you could send me the the um word copy of it. I'll
send it to legal. You have I think Yeah. No. You had a busy day today, huh? Just a little bit. Okay. Okay. Well, we'll see what legal says, but I I think uh Council Ruden, if you
want to make the request, I'm not sure that we can hold them to, you know, $2,000 a day fines if they miss the return on Wednesday. But look, you know, is this chapter 28 as well? It's chapter 28, right?
So, I'm looking at our code. Looking at the code, it looks like it is. Yeah, I think it's I think it's 28. Yeah, but yes, I gotta tell you, you look at the code book and it's really weird. It says that this that the tree ordinance is article one. Oh,
I don't know where that comes from. I just mean if if when they're writing the ordinance that I just want to put the 28 because you have references for Yeah, I think it is 28. We'll let them know. I mean, they should know. I thought it was 28 until I looked in the code book
and the code book just says calls the tree ordinance article one. It does. You're right. Yeah. Article one tree protection. Yeah. It's odd. It's I I thought it was in chapter 25. Honestly, okay, we got to stop this. Yeah, we got to go.
Okay. Uh I need a motion to adjourn and go into I make a motion ABC. Just a second. I'm sorry. Okay, I'm sorry. We're all getting late here. Excuse me. Okay, we got a second from Councilman
Scarpa. All in favor? I hope that. Yes. So, we have a technical difficulty here. Apparently, the um recorder has stopped all of a sudden uh for the meeting. So, for the ABC hearing, we
normally turn off the Zoom and we just rely on this. Yes, on the computer. We cannot rely on this. Apparently, in the past, we have kept the Zoom on for an ABC gearing. This is very brief. I want to let you know that before we actually and that's your
decision if you want to do that. Okay. Yeah. So, no cursing. Does everybody agree? No cursing. Just want to make sure we're all and it's on the record so we know better. Okay. All right. All right. You're welcome. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Okay.
So, these three I thought we did. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. That's That's when Councilwoman Castelino asked for the vote. All in favor to get you home. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead.
So 780-25, 781-25, and 782-25. Um these are individual ABC resolutions. Um and these are for um our ABC licences
that are either in pocket status or inactive. Um there was legislation passed in 2024 that states that inactive and pocket licenses um that have remained inactive for two consecutive years must either be sold um or used.
Otherwise, the township will most likely lose the license in its entirety. Um, so these are um, you know, up for your consideration so that these licenses um
can get an extension to kind of figure out how they're going to proceed just because these things take time. So, ask question. Yes. So, um, do we make a motion to go into ABC to start ABC?
Yes, you already made it. You're the one that said all in favor. Okay. I just say end the meeting. Um, so my problem with this is this is this one has been active since 2011. It's over like how many
inactive? Oh, inactive. Yeah. I hear you. I I like what happens with these like why are they so hanging out there? I mean this is going it's an investment. It's it's it's sort
of like the tax lean. It it's a financial instrument that has value and the value fluctuates. But uh so these people have made an investment in the license. Almost all of them have paid for it. They've made an investment. Now they got to figure out what they're
going to do. Now they know there's a date certain that they're going to lose their investment if they don't do something on it. And this is a new law. So that's that's really what they're looking at. And and so now two years. Is that what this is saying? Yeah. That's essentially that's that's that's essentially
two years to to sell these to somebody else or open up some months. Yeah. Lose it. Yeah. Yeah. And um this is okay. This is for a one-year extension. And after that year, if they don't make some
sort of effort to either sell it or um find a location, they're we're going to lose the licenses. Okay. So, there are three. So, these are three. So, they're not a location because they're pockets, correct? Yes.
So, okay. Okay. So, I can I recommend that um you know this be I know can we motion to motion make a motion to consider 7080-25? Yeah. Um can we move them all at once or
I have a question on one of these. Okay. The question it looks to me that the the license number for 780-25 and 781 same are identical. Nope, they're not.
What's different? First one is 61. Second one is 63. Yeah, same owner. And also the previous group number, one's 44, the other one's 33. Yeah, they're the same owners. Mine have the exact same numbers.
Well, on on my agenda, the last six numbers of each of these is 061005 037007 063005. Oh, up at the top. Okay. Nope. Mine are the exact same.
Okay. I'm not I'm not seeing it, but I'll take your word for it. Great. Motion to approve 780-25. Second. Any discussion? Madame Clerk. Councilwoman Castelino.
Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. Motion carries. Great. 781-25. Resolution authorizing one-year extension of plenary retail distribution
pocket license for ERA Kitchen Group. Motion to approve. Second. Any discussion? Madame Clerk. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman uh Councilwoman Ruden.
Gosh, there's a black. Councilwoman Scarpa. Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. Okay. The motion carries again. As we wish you were here. Uh motion to approve 782-25 resolution authorizing one-year extension of
plenary retail distribution pocket license for Ragav Varma. So moved. Second. Any discussion? Madame clerk. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. Councilwoman Scarpa.
Yes. Council President Koviaak. Yes. The motion carries. Anything else? Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second. All those in favor? I opposed. Good night, West Orange. Is are they
still on? Is anybody on? How many people are on? Wow. Actually, good night. Are they off? Oh, okay. Thank you, West Orange. Thank you for hanging out with us.
Mr. The Birkin ever.