WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=nF2BTf0qyQA

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: nF2BTf0qyQA):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Commences: Budget Overview and Open Public Notice
- 00:02:18: Public Comment: Justin Goldman Inquiries about Police and Town Budget
- 00:07:27: Public Comment: Ken Gibbons Suggests Workshop Timing Changes
- 00:11:03: Public Comment: William Sullivan Advocates for Co-Responder Funding
- 00:14:49: Public Comment: Jackie Hendy Questions Agenda Procedural Concerns
- 00:16:12: Public Comment: Michaela Bennett and CBA on Severance Payouts
- 00:22:09: Public Comment: Todd Deovi Argues Non-Budget Items on Agenda
- 00:24:48: Council Addresses Public Comment, Discusses Resolution Legality
- 00:26:42: Council Members Respond to Public Comments, Offer Explanations
- 00:33:08: Ruden Speaks on Settlement Agreements and Mental Health Services
- 00:37:34: Williams Expresses Views on Policing Mental Health, Thanking Leaders
- 00:43:50: Council Votes on Retirement Payout Resolutions, Approving All
- 00:50:02: Municipal Court Budget Presentation and Website Demonstration
- 00:51:42: Detailed Discussion on Municipal Court Salaries and Wages
- 00:54:18: Confidence in One Judge; Overtime Clarification and Case Management
- 00:59:10: Explanation of Back-Up Judge, Relief Judge, and Cases
- 01:00:49: Clarification Regarding Municipal Court Budget Numbers
- 01:04:52: Additional Clarification Regarding Municipal Staffing and Process
- 01:14:54: E-Tickets and CBA Questions Regarding Judge Issues
- 01:18:01: Paper vs Electronic Tickets, Hand-Held Devices, Funding
- 01:26:57: Budget Clarification Regarding Relief Judges, Expenses, Payments
- 01:35:39: CBA Board Weighs in, Additional Commentary on Judicial Issues
- 01:37:30: Motion to Approve or Revise the Page, Clarification of Terms
- 01:42:38: Public Defender Review of Budget, Concerns About Significant Increase
- 01:44:50: Back from Break, Police Department Budget Presentation
- 02:33:04: Police Department: Mental Health Program Data and Advocacy
- 02:38:31: Professional Services and the Mental Health Contract
- 02:47:56: Police Department: Budget Adjustments and Computer Needs
- 02:56:50: Police Department: Forfeiture Funds and Licensing Fees
- 03:05:44: Police Department: Bulletproof Vest Safety and Final Presentation
- 03:10:02: Tax Collector's Office: Salary and Wage Adjustments
- 03:11:55: Tax and Sewer Bills Discussion: Online Payment Processing Fees
- 03:15:50: Tax and Sewer Bills Discussion: Printing Cost Concerns
- 03:18:53: Tax Collector's Office: Toner Costs and Vault Servicing
- 03:23:48: Office of the Mayor: Salary Increases and Overtime
- 03:38:47: Office of the Mayor: Printing Costs and Township Council Salaries
- 03:40:30: Township Council: Operating Expenses Discussion
- 03:47:09: Commissions: Main Street Program Subsidization Concerns
- 03:59:11: Commissions: Rent Leveling Board Status Review
- 04:08:31: Pension: Public Employee and Police/Fire Retirement System
- 04:13:42: Joint Sewer: Quarterly Assessment and Flow Rate Analysis
- 04:19:17: Garbage Collection: Contract Status and Recycling


Part: 1

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the area. >> Good afternoon, West Orange, and welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for May 18, 2026. I just want to remind you all, if you're at home, you can follow along on the

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website, west.org, uh on this in the slide, West Orange municipal budget. It is posted there. And finally, the next scheduled meeting is May 20th. That's this Wednesday at 4 pm here in council chambers. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to

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our council president. >> Okay, great. Thank you everyone for joining both on Zoom and in person. This is our fourth meeting for our budget workshop. >> This is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the Open

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Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the Township of West Orange website on April 16th, 2026. Councilwoman Castelino >> present. >> Councilman Kovia

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>> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams has not uh arrived. Council President Scarpa >> present. >> Will everyone please rise for the pledge of allegiance? Pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The council is now in their public meeting. >> Okay. Do we want to do our resolutions

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first? We have some resolutions tonight that we need to >> We'll do public com. Yeah. Oh, okay. Uh, who do I have? >> President interruption. I see Councilwoman Williams is in the Zoom audience. I'm going to bring her in as a participant. >> Okay, great. Uh, how many people do I

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have for public comment today? Okay. Um, Justin, do you want to come up? >> Something's missing. >> Um, good even afternoon, Justin Goldzman, Lauran Road. Um, just going through the budget quickly, but I'll do topic by topic. Um, just on the police

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department. Um, thank you for the incredible services you provide. Happy belated police appreciation week. Um, just some questions. Does West Orange utilize license plate readers. Livingston implemented them over the last few years and car thefts and breakins dropped by 75%. Uh, Livingston

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told me they cost $30,000 a reader. So, I'm just curious what the return on investment might be, whether that's savings for staff and, you know, time on the job or a license plate reader. Um, we've seen a lot of accidents in town lately. Wondering if we have municipal

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traffic cameras that do track speed violations. I know there's sticky state regulation regarding that, but just curious if that would help with any of the budgets and also reduce safety or improve safety concerns if we can track speed violations fine accordingly and perhaps use that funding for budgetary

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items. Um, has the township or the police department endured any additional costs with ICE activity? Um, and will the police department be expected to endure any additional costs due to the World Cup? Whether that's for additional staffing, human trafficking concerns,

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anything like that. Um, on garbage collection, page 170, 2025 budget was $2.7 million. We spent 3.27. This year, the recommended budget is even larger at 3.68. Just asking if we can explain the delta between the

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521,000 and why there's such a gap. Um, not sure if the recycling center falls under collection, but do other towns utilize our recycling center facility? If so, how much does each municipality pay? Does that go up with the cost of inflation? And I was once told that mulch and wood chips were created and

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sold out of the recycling center. Not sure if that's a rumor or if there's merit to that, but just wondering if they are produced at our facility, do we get a share of that proc profits? Um, on the council budget, um, without getting personal, this is simply a budget question, not an accusation, not a

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presumption by any means, there was a change abruptly to the makeup of the council last year and we were absent a council person for several weeks. Just curious if payments stopped during that process, if anything was prrated, um, just to make sure because the budget line items are still totally allocated

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the exact same throughout the duration of that period. So, we people shouldn't be getting paid if they're not on the council at the moment. Um, page 20, line item 092. Curious if the cost of taping for council meetings depends on the length of council meetings or if that's

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just an annual charge that we assess. Um, if so, I'd encourage the council to do everything we can to expedite and run our meetings as efficiently as possible. A suggestion I might have for you in Trenton. When you go to testify, you can submit in in favor or oppose to slips. It allows you to still speak if you

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want, but you can also check no need to testify. That way the residents can come here, say resolution ABC, in favor, opposed, no need to testify. That way you don't feel obligated to come up and say, I really like this bill, you should do it. Saves us time. Still doesn't

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impinge on anyone's rights. You still have plenty of time to speak your truth. Um, on commissions, I know I asked this last time, if the planning board fell under commissions, and I spoke about the court reporter fee for the West Essex Highlands being reduced, but also on

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page 30, line item 30, what advertising costs are there really for the planning board since everything is posted online? Just curious. Page 34 on commissions. I think it's long overdue that we have a conversation on commission funding. Um, how are these budgets allocated? Why do

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some commissions receive funding but others don't? As I mentioned at the last time, the older adults advisory board doesn't receive funding. The public relations commission doesn't receive funding, which really impedes their ability to publicize the town's events and highlight our things. Um, but

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specifically on the HRC ordinance number 1320-95, section 2-51.8, Eight. This commission shall annually develop a tenative budget for the following year to be submitted to the mayor for initial approval and subject to the West Orange Towns Council appropriation approval.

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A lot of times as someone who was on the HRC, we get requests. They come in and we say we'll just ask the council to fund this. I think that's poor fiduciary management. It's not a slight to the commission's operating expenses or procedures, but I think it impedes the

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budgetary ability when we don't know. A good example, I was on the HRC and a budget request from a great organization came in requesting $500 for easels. Organization does great work. I said, "What happened to the easels from the last year?" I was the only one who didn't approve that request because we

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gave you money for an item that does not disappear. So, just curious how these funding allocations are actually really reviewed. Um, and then just if anyone can speak to the decrease in uh funding allocated for the pension payments and PERS this year, is it from terminations,

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payouts, etc. So, thank you for your time today. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Uh, anybody else? Mr. Gibbons. >> My name is Ken Gibbons. Seven Rigs Place CPA GMA MST order. I'm a lifelong resident, third generation homeowner of

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the Gibbons family at Rick's Place in the Valley. Got to go off a little script. I gotta say I want to know the people here are the people speaking. Do they actually work for advisory firms? Because I got to be honest, getting here at 4:00 is very difficult when you work

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in this profession. So the people that could probably help the most are kind of being shut out because the timing of when they start these budget workshops. So suggestion would be to try to make it later on the weekend or something where

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more people I know can partake in this and help the process. Um so that was just a comment. Uh just want to say last year's budget process involving the town council and the CBA, it did take a significant amount of time before the budget was finalized. This year,

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however, it seems like the process is moving pretty quickly. Two workshops this uh week alone. And uh in addition, scheduling budget meetings at 4 p.m. like I said makes it very difficult for residents that have the experience to

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try to partake in in this process. In my profession experience at Deote, Goldman Sachs and other firms, I will tell you consistently I was taught that the planning phase is the most important phase of any project. Appears to me that some council members may be working in

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silos. Uh and a more coordinated process would I believe result in in more efficient uh through the process outcomes. Um I caution against rushing through this

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process. All avenues should be explored to reduce costs and lower taxes uh on residents. Financial oversight, which is probably the main function of the town council uh requires a careful review, analysis, and long-term planning.

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Frankly, residents I speak to tell me they simply can't stomach another tax increase. I speak with all them and they simply are just very frustrated. Um, but residents also evaluate the value they

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receive for the taxes they pay. I personally can tell you I felt and dealt with rodent issues in my neighborhood that caused severe damage to my vehicles, $22,000 to my Lexus, which I end up where the insurance carrier told

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without my car. I had recently around the holidays an attempted breakin and just did if I talked to residents I think the equation seems simple to them. Costs are going up but the quality of

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life is going down. So respectfully I've asked the council here if you personally experienced some of those same conditions in your neighborhood would you feel comfortable with your taxes going up? To many residents the question is simple. this uh uh election. I got to

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be honest, I have made it a personal priority of myself. Make sure residents who feel discouraged or unheard, their voices are heard. Thank you. Oh, and I also sent the detail request, you

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guys have it, that uh we've gone through I've gone through um identifying questions. Uh colleagues of mine who do live in town will be working on this with me going forward. Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. We'll make sure you get that

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and we all get that. Thank you. Uh yes. >> Hi. Uh William Sullivan, 13 Oakidge Road. Um all the years that I've been here, I can safely say I have never made a budget meet before. Uh but I did want to uh uh

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come here today and speak on one item that's on your list and that is um the co-responder program with the police department and mental health uh uh professionals um that uh as as I'm sure you hopefully know or the chief's going to discuss also um that in this program

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which was originally funded by a grant from the state we were the first town in New Jersey fed sorry uh first town in New Jersey to have that program and the mental health professional accompany police officers to incidents that involve uh a mental health issue, help

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to diffuse the situation, provide counseling, and and very importantly, they review the body cam footage uh so that officers can be better trained to deal with those situations um in the future. Um we're we're all aware of events nationwide in which um mental

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health uh illness has played a role in a tragedy happening somewhere and this program to me um is very important to making sure that that doesn't happen here. I I know that the last numbers that I saw on this were 2024 was that

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there were 543 police calls in in 2024 um that involved a mental health uh issue of some kind. and having a co-responder according to the police department's own statistics. Having a co-responder go to those events um

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reduce the number of calls reduce the number of calls that were resolved without conflict reduce the number of involuntary commitments. Um it's it's a pro important program. It's a program that's working and I you know I was educated on this first of all from my

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wife who's a psychiatric social worker uh but also through being chair of the municipal alliance uh working with the uh with the codies on the mental health uh foundation that they've established but also with an application that went before the zoning board for a facility

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right across the street here at 33 Mount Pleasant Avenue um that uh we had to withdraw due to a aggressive nimbies from Loan Park who didn't want people with those problems living anywhere near them. Right. And and I think the

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important thing uh about that among other things is that this council in 2014 adopted a resolution saying that West Orange is a stigmafree town. You ever wonder what why those signs are up around town that say stigmafree? It's because this council adopted an an

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ordinance that said that we are a stigmatree town. We support the elimination of stigma associated with mental illness. Right? We want to remove barriers to recovery and work to overcome stigma, stereotyping, and um

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and uh discrimination in that group. Unfortunately, people in the park didn't hear that message, but you can hear that message by continuing to fund this program. Um I know it's a big budget item. Uh, but I think this is one of those budget items where there there is

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a clear relationship between the public investment and public health and safety and and I I hope that you'll find a way along with all the other things you you have to do here uh to fund that program. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Uh, anyone else, Miss Hendy?

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>> Hi. Hey, good afternoon. Uh, Jackie Hendy, Beverly Road. I just have, excuse my lateness and maybe this has already been removed, but I just have a procedural concern about tonight's agenda. Um, because this meeting was noticed as a budget meeting and the residents who showed up tonight are

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expecting budget presentations, which are salaries, wages, operating costs, and what was added were three binding settlement agreements. And these are legal contracts between the township and retiring employees com carrying a combined payout of over 378,000

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and respectfully they're not budget line items. So I'm not questioning whether these employees are owed what they're owed but just if this what the process is um because residents deserve to know when the township is executing settlement agreements and a budget hearing to my knowledge is not a proper

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proper vehicle for that notice. So, I just want to address why the resolutions were placed on the agenda rather than a regular council meeting and whether the township attorneys confirmed this is procedurally appropriate for a open public uh according to the open public meetings act. Thank you.

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>> Great. Would you like to take that or we want to wait? >> Yeah, sure. Anybody else for public comment? >> Thank you, Council President. Just as a point of information, I have my own public comment that I would like to b make as Michaela Bennett. I also have a

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comment to make on agenda items on behalf of the CBA. I don't know how you want to handle that. >> Well, you have five minutes to do whatever talk about whatever. >> Okay. So, I'm >> and then you would at the end seab come up after we all you know after we do each page seb could come up.

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>> Okay. So, the seab um I'll leave the seabb comment for after my own comment. Um, so Michaela Bennett, Old Indian Road. I'm making uh my own personal comment related to number six on your agenda for tonight. Resolutions 134-26,

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135-26, and 136-26. I've attended uh approximately 33 uh budget workshops and I have never seen

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uh the council be asked to do township business during a budget workshop. On that point alone, I would ask you to not break rank and set precedent in this budget workshop and leave budget workshops for budget workshop work. Um,

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you have a council meeting in I think next few days. So, I don't know why that this No, next week. Sorry. Okay. Thank you. So, you have a council meeting in a week and a day. I'm not sure why this there's a

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rush to get this to your attention and across the finish line. I have my suspicions. I'll keep my suspicions to myself, but in light of the fact that in 20ou 2022, this township was one of 57

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municipalities that was identified as paying out employees in excess of what the law permitted and was told that it had to submit a corrective action plan. As a result, I would strongly urge you to not conduct this business now and to

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make sure that you have it on solid legal authority from the comprollers's office itself that you may go ahead and approve a $50,9647 retirement payout for one individual, a

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$241,67 73,67341 payout and an $85,741.80 payout for a third individual. I'll bring your attention to the budget page number 13. At the very top of the page, you will see 2021 severance liabilities that the

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township was responsible for at $100,000 in two in 2025 and again in 2026 it is recommended another $100,000 in severance liabilities. 2022 the severance liabilities were

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$190,000 that was adopted in the 2025 budget. That same amount is recommended for this budget, $190,000. In 2023, the severance liabilities were $300,000. In 2025's adopted budget, that same

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amount is recommended for the 2026 budget. And in 2024, the severance liabilities were $360,000 that was adopted in the 2025 budget. And that is what is recommended for 2026. These dollar amounts are all in excess

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of the $15,000 cap that there is supposed to be on payouts. And I strongly urge you, as myself, that you look into making sure that the comprollers's office is aware that you have been asked to do this, is in support of you voting on this

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resolution. Okay. So, that's me. >> Go ahead. Finish up. You could do your um >> the citizens. Go ahead. Do your CBA. So on this issue, the citizen budget advisory board makes the following statement. In 2022, West Orange was

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named in the comprollers report as one of 57 towns in need of corrective action for its employment and payout practices. The SBA recommends that all contracts adhere to the 2007 and 2010 laws that

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limit payouts as a safeguard against waste and a protection for taxpayers. Before voting in favor of any additional payouts, the council should first seek and obtain confirmation that the following was completed to the comproller satisfaction. One, and this

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is by by the way included in the 2022 comprollers report as what needed to be corrected by this township. The terms of West Orange's employee manual comply with the 2007 law. its employee manual should no longer allow payments for

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acred sick leave at a time other than at retirement for covered employees. Number two, that the terms of West Orange's employee manual comply with the 2010 law. Its employee manual should no longer allow payments for acred sick leave at a time other than at retirement

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for non-union employees hired after May 21st, 2010. Number three, the terms of West Orange's union contracts are in compliance with the 2010 law with regard to payment of acred sick leave because they do not allow for payments at a time

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other than at retirement and they do cap the payment at $15,000 for employees hired after May 21st, 2010 in four of its contracts. Next, the council should seek and receive legal confirmation that any payout before them

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is based on a lawful contract that adheres to the comprollers 2022 guidance. Third, excessive payouts have a material impact on property taxes. Therefore, the CBA recommends a ceaseation of these payouts. Thank you.

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>> You're welcome. Thank you. Does anyone else have public comment? Mr. Dodie? Good afternoon, Todd Deovi, best uh 10 Bernett Terrace. Um, I'm speaking in my individual capacity as attacking. Um, I

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also uh um see an issue with having um non-budget related matters being on the agenda at a budget hearing that where that is prime. That is what we're tasked

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with dealing with. Um, we all know how long it took to go through the budget process last year. Yes, it's moving quicker quicker this year, but you know, we're not through this and it's going to take longer and to bog down the agenda

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um with non-budget related items um I think is not fair to taxpayers and the process of managing this town's budget. Um I want to reiterate reiterate also uh

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what two of two prior uh uh people had mentioned which is um salaries and wages in this township and the resulting payouts that come from that are are the biggest drivers of expense in this town.

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And I if there are questions relating to how the township is handling those calculations and how the township is handling those payouts and hiring and salaries and all of that to and while there are still questions that are being

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have not been resolved with state agencies, local agencies, county agencies that are looking into these issues to even vote on and address and and um entertain those those those topics at a c a council meeting or any

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meeting for that matter is inappropriate. Um >> I should No problem. Bless you. Um that's that's basically what I've got to say. >> Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who'd like to make public comment

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today? No. Okay. Okay, I'll make a motion then to close public comments. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> Any opposed? Public comments will be >> Okay, great. I'm going to first go to our legal to answer the questions

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regarding the resolutions put on and then after that, Mr. Tiniac and Mr. Smealdo, if you'd comment on to any rationale why they were put on today. >> Sure. And I I I apologize. I'm new to this as of about 20 minutes ago, this issue. Um but my understanding is that

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um the proper notice was provided um within the required for uh 48 hour notice period prior to this meeting. Um that notice did indicate that formal action may be taken at this meeting which does um give the council the authority to take action on the business

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on the agenda should it choose to. >> Okay. Mr. Diniac or Mr. SM. So, council president, if you recall, I can't go into the specifics of executive session, but this this topic was presented to the council. Um, and the council was advised

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that these payouts are permissible through our legal our law our law department as far as labor is concerned >> and that um we asked when this should be put on. It was the request at that meeting to put it on as quickly as

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possible. This is a meeting as Mr. Summer pointed out recently that um a budget hearing is only one meeting and then after this it requires or the hearing is one meeting after when it becomes more than one it becomes meetings and this is now a council meeting that we're having to do budget.

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So that is what he advised us. This is what you've been advised by um our labor council and so this was put up as a result of what was discussed at the last meeting and that's about as probably as far as I can go without violating the executive session. >> Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. Anything to

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add, Mr. Tiniac? I >> think that sums it up. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. So, uh I'll let my colleagues respond to public comment. Perhaps uh Councilwoman Castelino would like to go first. >> Hi. Sorry. Hope everybody could hear me.

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I apologize for my voice this evening. Uh just not uh doing well here. So, I'll see how long I last on the meeting tonight. I just want to thank everyone for coming out and and coming to listen and do the work with us. Um, you know,

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in regards to what Mr. Smearalda just said and the attorney, um, you know, we we have had other action items in the past in years past on at budget hearings and, um, so it's

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not inappropriate, it's legal. uh we prefer not to do it, but in this situation um we we needed to get these our retirees paid. They worked hard for us for many years. Our council um our legal

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council vetted everything and we we can't, you know, we can't hold payment up. Uh they deserve better and I appreciate all their all their time and effort through through the years. uh our staff. In regards to a couple of the

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questions, I could let my colleagues take it, but uh I'll I'll jump in when we get to each section. Someone mentioned council uh woman uh G uh uh Gabra Michael um her salary was prrated,

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I believe, last year. We did uh uh did account for that, so it wouldn't be in this year's uh budget because that was last year's budget. So we did uh prorate that from what my I remembered a few of the questions raised or some of the

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questions I have for those sections. So I'm not going to discuss it. Thank you to Bill Sullivan um for his statements. Um yeah, great important program. Um interested in hearing what the chief uh has in mind for maybe getting the cost

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down on it. Um, but you know, years ago, um, you're right, it was a a grant. Um, and I still want to thank Chief Abbott and, uh, Mr. Tran for bringing that program to us many years ago. It has been a great service to the community.

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So, I'm looking forward to listening to the chief when he speaks. Um, recycling center, I believe. you know, whoever goes there, they have to pay for the mulch, and that's all with our contract, and we'll talk about that later. Uh,

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other than that, I'll um I'll let the everyone else speak. Sorry about my voice, everybody. Thank you, Council President. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Koviaak, do you have anything? >> Uh, I was going to thank Mr. Goldsman again for coming up and, uh, also

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apologizing that my fingers and my ears do not work as fast as his tongue. Uh there was a question about the license plate readers. Yes, we have had license plate readers for uh several years. Um um we're going to find out tonight

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hopefully about why the garbage costs have uh moved up so quickly. Uh let's see. You asked about the cost of ice and the staffing for the World Cup, but I thought the chief might take that on when he talks to us.

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Uh and uh there's does seem to be concern about the uh the unusual budget uh meeting agenda and I'll just take this opportunity to uh try to address

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some of these issues with uh publicly available information. And uh there's been a lot of controversy and news coverage in the last several months about terminal payouts which are given to qualified personnel uh in New Jersey

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uh in municipalities when qualified people retire or otherwise leave employment. And I and other council members are painfully aware that these sums involve significant amounts of taxpayer money.

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Unfortunately, the council and its adviserss have spent many hours. You can just take a look at the executive session um authorizations to see that we have

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been looking at these for months. uh reviewing the data, supporting these payouts, as well as the laws, the regulations, the ordinances, and policy to ensure as much as possible that these are all legitimate payouts.

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The process has been complicated, as was mentioned in public comment, by an inquiry by the state controllers's office. As of today, we have legal complaints from some recipients and we on the

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council advised by our attorneys know of no legal re reason not to give these terminal payouts that are validated and legitimate. As much as we do not want to do it, these are significant amounts of money and it it uh it's very painful to

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part with this money. These payouts, specific payouts tonight, were on a previous council meeting agenda. So, there has been public notice about this, even more so than this agenda for the meeting today. And they were pulled

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at the last minute minute in an abundance of caution uh for a reason that I can't disclose discuss at this point, but should be made public at some point down the road.

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and uh the pulling of these previous resolutions for terminal payouts have legal imp implications that we are seeking to address tonight. And as far as we know, as far as we've been

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advised, these are all legal payments that we are required under the law to make. That's all I want to say. Thank you, Council President. >> You're welcome, Councilwoman Ruden. >> Um,

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these three payouts are definitely problematic. Um, to my knowledge, such a almost a quarter of a million dollars has never been authorized for outside spending during a public um

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uh budget meeting. This is a lot of money. It was pulled last time not out of an abundance of caution, but because we were told that there were outside authorities looking into in particular

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one category called limited time due. That's why those payments were pulled. That has not changed. None of us have been notified that that is not currently the case. So, as far as we know, this investigation is still going on. I think

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it would be an unwise practice for us to go forward without having a definitive answer from the entities that are looking into these very large retirement payouts. That is not to disparrage any

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of the workers who earn what who believe that they earn this money and are waiting for this. I would like to help resolve this as quickly as possible. I don't want to get into a situation where we move faster than the state authorities and then are put in a

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position where we may have to claw back. So, this is a lot of money. This is $378,000 worth of money. It's the taxpayers's money. Um, I did ask today when I saw the at the last minute the resolution

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was changed, which I know that that you know, you say that the public got plenty of of um fair warning that this resolution was coming up, but just so that the public knows, what was put up was a very simple

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resolution up until today at about 10:18 when that resolution changed and we saw what was not just a resolution but was a settlement agreement and general release. And in that general release, it said that outside council

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has reviewed all documentation including time sheets and acral balances and has verified the accuracy of the figures that the figures support the total payment amount and has provided a written opinion in support thereof. I

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requested from our um from our township clerk who then turned this over to our labor attorney for all of that documentation and that legal legal opinion which is referenced in here. And every time you have a document that is

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referenced in a resolution, it should be attached so that the public can see it. We want the transparency for ourselves and for the public. that was I did not get a response from that and for that reason as well I think that we should

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not be moving forward with this. Um Justin, thank you for the many many great ideas. As always, I take note of everything that you you suggest. Um and we'll follow up with many of those

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issues today. Mr. Gibbons, thank you for bringing a lot of issues to our attention as well. U Mr. Sullivan, I think that um mental health assistance is is truly important. Um I know about

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this from personal experience and I I value the added help of mental service professionals accompanying police. I think that we do need to discuss how we got from a a very large grant directly back onto our our budget and what we can

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do about it and maybe just discuss more information so that we really understand what the value of this is to our town and if there are any other solutions that we can can talk about and maybe plan for in the future including trying

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to seek additional funding for this much needed and much valued service. That concludes my comments for tonight. >> Okay, >> thank you, Council President. Um, so apologies for being late, but traffic

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was uh certainly not uh cooperating uh today and uh duly noted about the time. Um us starting at 400 p.m. does indeed make it challenging not only for the public. Um, ordinary dayshift hours are until 5:00 PM, but again today I

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experienced that same challenge and difficulty in getting here timely. Um, so my apologies for not being here as you did here from Mr. Fagan. I did tune in immediately so that I did not miss any of the commentary and I was on the Zoom. Um, so I want to thank you um,

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Justin for your comments. I would just ask that you send some of your recommendations and suggestions into us in writing. We do have um a very limited time to jot down the notes. You have ex excellent ideas, suggestions and

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recommendations. Um sometimes we can respond to those uh in writing so that again we can give further explanation about um how uh protocol ordinances and all um your questions uh can be

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answered. But thank you so very much. Um again, always good information. I I'm going to um focus on policing mental health and the ride along program with the mental health association. Um in 2019, we actually started a um advocacy

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group stakeholders around the town and started talking about the incidents of suicide uh prevention, suicide attempts in our community. And um within the next 16 months after that advocacy, uh Chief Abbott as well as our uh former mayor

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introduced an opportunity to be the uh model pilot program in the state of New Jersey for policing mental health. Um for those who may not recall at that time um there was a movement to defund the police and that was based on the

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incident of George Floyd and um our police department saw things differently. Our leader at the time saw things differently and we took advantage of this pilot program. Um the stats are sent to us from the mental health association um quite frequently. Uh we

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get stat reports on anytime an incident has that requires a crisis call. Um we get the stats on that. We get the summary on that. Um and it there's a tremendous amount of oversight recommendations if there is necessary um

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changes or approaches in how uh the crisis call could have gone differently. I am 100 and,000% um supportive of this program really at any expense. Um the police are not

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trained to deescalate uh mental health crisis in the capacity that the professionals that are with them have the knowledge, expertise and experience to mitigate. Um so unfortunately um without question, without hesitation, without a doubt um that is going to be a

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program that I 100,000% um will always continue to fund again within reason. Um obviously we can't have runaway trains um in our budget because there is um some necessary degree of cost analysis. Um but our uh

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program again a pilot program which has now become the model for policing mental health in the state of New Jersey and beyond. So uh it we can figure out whatever it needs to be figured out. Um but we do have a tremendous amount of

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calls, mental health crisis calls in West Orange. um our statistics for uh mental health um and how we respond has gone down and the opportunity for us to provide much needed resources to those

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who are in crisis um has escalated tremendously. Um so that again is a care um again the liaison for the municipal alliance commission and advocate for mental health. Um and and thank you thank you to our previous leaders uh for

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creating this opportunity again that has escalated and evolved into a statewide model. Um I serve on the governor's council for mental health stigma and this is one of the primary things we talk about and focus on um in the state

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is removing the stigma around mental health. Um so again that that's my commentary on that. Um again no need to reiterate uh the commentary from the administration and as we get to the vote um we will uh deal with those things

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accordingly. Um, I hope that has addressed and answered everyone's questions. Thank you, council president, for the time to speak. >> Okay, great. I, um, I think my colleagues have pretty much summed up most of it. Um, but I would like to just ask Mr. Smaldo if he knows, has the mayor look, uh, looked toward Millennium

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for any grants on this mental health uh, program on the uh, mental health. >> First, I want to echo the sentiment of almost everybody up here has mentioned it. So, the mayor and the administration support this initiative just as well. Um, I know that the police leadership is

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really looking for this to be approved and they really would appreciate the consideration from the council because we all believe that this is a uh this is one of those things that we collaboratively believe this is very important to our citizens and our residents and our police officers because it helps them too with their

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their function. Um, so we have looked I'm going to let the chief speak more about it when he's does his presentation, but there currently are no other funding sources at this time, but with working with Millennium, we're constantly looking for all kinds of

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opportunities, whether it be for for policing, mental health, or whatever the case may be. >> We are constantly looking and searching and and we we get frequent emails from millennial. So, uh, and when and if something like this comes across, we will I can tell you without any

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hesitation, we will look to have money to help support this funding for the more we can, the better off we will be. >> Okay. Great. All right. >> Sounds like a very important program. And just um on the payouts, I just want to reiterate um that it had been on the

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agenda. Um there is no legal basis for us not to make these payouts from what our legal counsel has um guided us. And um the employees who have worked so hard and really earned

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these benefits really have been expecting to be paid for quite some time. So that's about all I can say on that. And uh with that we'll close public comment and should we get to the res? Yes. >> So a point of order, council president,

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just so that um the public knows our clerk, Miss Carnival had an unexpected um reason to leave this evening. >> So we have Miss Kazinski filling in for her um via remote. I just want to make sure. So we do have a clerk >> on duty, but it's but the clerk is the

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clerk is on remote. So Miss Kazinski, you can say hello to everybody. You did before unofficially. So you could welcome we welcome you to the meeting tonight. Maybe she can just introduce herself briefly and then do you want to do the resolutions? >> Yes, that's that would be fine. So, um >> so, yep. My name is Dina. Uh I'll be

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covering for Karen. I'm the deputy municipal clerk. Um so, we can proceed. >> Okay. Council >> um Mr. Scott, I believe it is. Um, I would just like you to weigh in on the fact that the resolution was put up 3

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days ago, but the settlement agreement was put up a few hours ago and there are documents within the settlement agreement that were not attached to us or to the public. >> As long as the resolutions were made public in time, I that that would

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suffice. Underlying documents um wouldn't prohibit you from taking further action today. documents that are referenced in the settlement agreement and not attached. So, we don't have that information. >> Well, it's a matter of not not a matter

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whether you have it. It's a matter of whether the public um had what had what is legally required for them to have and that that is the resolutions. >> Okay. So, we're being asked to allocate money without knowing without having all of the documentation, time sheets,

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approval balances, etc. I don't think anybody's I don't know who's asking that. Um I'm not I'm just here to tell you that you're legally authorized to act should you choose to today. >> Okay. >> Up to you, Council President. If you want to move forward with the resolutions, that's that's for you to

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move forward. >> Why don't I um just poll my colleagues whether they want to move forward? >> It's not about polling the colleagues. It's on the agenda. You as council president are going to have to respect the agenda. You can call for the vote and if there is no support then your colleagues will then vote accordingly

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>> but you have to run the meeting. >> Okay. So we'll move forward. >> Yes. Hold on. Councilwoman Castelino has a comment >> if anybody wants. >> Yes. So thank you council president. I just want to state for the public

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acknowledgement. I know was is mentioned various times. we cannot share what we uh talk about in close session and this is a matter of personnel. So, you know, we we we're we've to to mislead the

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public and let them think that we're not being appropriate with this being on the agenda. It does not uh do the public any service. So that we we're totally in our purview to to have this on on the agenda to vote on it and I recommend that we

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move forward um with such and thank you Councilwoman uh Williams for also recommend recommending the same. Yeah, my apologies for my voice. >> Okay, great. Okay, so we'll move forward. >> Okay, one more comment. This this is

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this is not a personnel issue. These are payroll issues. They have to do with money. They are public record. The public should be entitled to them as should we. >> Okay, let's move forward.

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Okay, so the first resolution is 134-26. Resolution approving the accumulated time remaining upon retirement to Dominic Alagrino at the rate of pay at the time of retirement in the sum of $50,9647. >> I make a motion to approve that

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resolution. >> Is there a second? Okay. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Council Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> no.

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>> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Resolution 135-26. Resolution approving the accumulated time remaining upon retirement to

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William Kho at the rate of pay at the time of retirement in the sum of $241,67341. >> I make a motion to move that resolution. Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak,

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>> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. Resolution 136-26, Resolution approving the accumulated

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time remaining upon retirement to George Hess at the rate of pay at the time of retirement in the sum of $85,741.80. >> I make a motion to move that resolution. >> I second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino,

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>> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, Mr. Din.

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Yeah. >> So, Council President, would we just uh to if you could indulge us um from the order? We we'd like to change the order at your, you know, request. So, our municipal court is a much smaller budget than our police department. So, we'd ask if you'd indulge that we can invite up our court administrator first to be

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heard. Thank you very much. I'd like to introduce our court administrator, Miss Yavon Hunt, to the the tape. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Council President. If we could start um with a quick uh

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walk through our website. This is the Township of West Orange website, west orange.org. if you want to follow along at home. Um, we have the, uh, the scroll, the news and updates. So, we have our agenda and Zoom links

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here, and then we have the budget page right here. So, we're going to click into the second page here, and we can click the link 2026 proposed budget, and that will open up a PDF

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um that's uh page numbered. And we're going to start with the municipal court. And that means we are starting on page um something. We are going to start on page 37.

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>> So beginning with salaries and wages, um the amount for the 2026 budget for base salary is $437,787. The amount budgeted for overtime is $18,000. The major drivers for the increase in

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the budget uh the base salary budget would be we have step increases for our keyboarding clerks that are in the AFSMA union and then we have a a an increase that was um related to creating the

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chief judge full-time role um that we've sort of spoken about in in some other hearings I believe or maybe We've just spoken about it. Um the ask is for 105,000. I will point out that um that

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number that we have looked at for the chief judge is actually 95,000. So um one of my comments recommendations would be uh if you will so entertain it would be to reduce that line by $10,000.

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>> Yes. Do we need a motion to be able to reduce the line item by 10,000? >> Yeah, let's want to do it on a motion. >> Yeah, I I I'll make I'll make the I have the floor. Council President, >> I'll um move that we reduce that line item by 10,000

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>> for the minutes. Court Judge. >> Okay. Council >> Oh, >> I second it. Dina, did you get that? Yes, I did. Thank you. All right. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden,

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>> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> Okay, motion carries. >> Do you want to stay on the s w? That's fine. I just wanted to circle back if I may. This may not be the appropriate time. Were we able to get an

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updated um itemization of the cuts we've done thus far? >> Um the the clerk did send me her most recent I I just haven't calculated it out. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Can we get them for the next meeting? >> Yeah, you'll have for Wednesday. >> We have I move to adopt this page.

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>> No, no questions. >> No. Okay. We no we haven't had comments. >> We have to have a presentation. >> Well, as they've stated, these are all mandatory steps and I believe everyone in my department deserves every penny

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that they get. So, I really don't have much to add. I'm not asking for any sort of um promotions or added increases. However, um, as most people know, or maybe they don't know, Judge Da did pass

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away June of last year. Judge Donnie Hughes stepped in. She took over both court sessions. We have been able to um maintain our record, our good record of um, keeping the court running. We have

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eight sessions, eight to 10 sessions per month, interpreting four times a month. Judge Donny who does all um warrant summons determinations from 400 pm all the way

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till the following morning of 9 a.m. So >> yes. >> Yeah. So thank you Ivonne >> and I apologize your last name >> Hunt. >> It was Bowowers I got married. >> Exactly. Um so thank you so much for

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being here and giving us um your um input. Could you just please clarify for us as we're going through the BR budget process since there may be some angst or concern um amongst my colleagues um with the functionality of having just one judge as opposed to having two judges as

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we've had in the past um can you just share your experience your level of confidence or lack thereof um with just having one judge. Thank you. I I have full confidence in um Judge Donahghue and her judge Donahghue is a very hardworking judge. Um when she when

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Judged D passed away, she was actually on vacation. So I've been in this industry 16 years now. I started in Newark. So really I know how to keep things moving in the interim. Um for her to come back and take over, I have full

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confidence in her. She's been amazing. Um, we move our cases the way we should. We haven't missed a beat pretty much. We haven't missed a beat. Um, it gets stressful because sometimes,

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you know, she is the only judge and there are things that come up and, you know, she's like, "You get any rest or anything like that?" And it is a little stressful, but she she bounces back without a beat. when we're on the bench, we're work.

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>> We're work. >> Has there been a time where in your experience since um only having one uh sitting judge um where there has been a lack of our ability as a township to process cases? >> No. >> No.

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>> No. Because the judge's role. The judge is to um we give her the cases that come. So, I'm there five days a week. So, I'm moving these things along so that when she comes in her two days a week, she has everything she needs to

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just get her work done and go. Um, so we have we haven't missed a beat. Not to say we don't miss Judge D. >> Um, but the way we operated when there was two judges, it's just a splitting of the cases. Now, she just gets the cases.

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>> It's fine. Prior to um us having only uh one judge, was there an assignment of specific cases to Judge Dow or Judge Danahue or did they share the entire case load? >> Well, actually, Judge Dow was mainly

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only traffic and he would get property um maintenance every other month. So, Judge Danghue, her calendar consists of traffic and criminal. So she was already doing everything that entails of the job. So

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it wasn't like she was just only doing criminal. She was doing both on her calendar. Just um D was only doing traffic on his. >> So >> thank you. I appreciate that clarity. And hopefully um those who did question whether or not uh there was a capacity for one judge to handle our municipal

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calendar um that your comments here this evening have um removed there. >> She's an amazing judge. West Orange. And I've worked with a lot of judges. I'm not just saying. Of course, I'm biased. I I love my judge, but I've worked with a lot of judges in this industry, and

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there's not a lot that can compare to her work ethic. She comes in, she does the job. We don't get any complaints. >> Not that I have heard. Um, but yeah, she she's more than up to the task. >> And if I may, one final question. Um so

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looking at us having just one judge um clearly you are confident that we can handle the case load that we can um clear our municipal calendar that comes under your purview but could you just explain for the public in the event there is an absence is there a system or

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mechanism in place with the judiciary so that a replacement can be um put in place >> absolutely so um I'll just break it down when it comes to the warrant summon determination the county has a list of judges that are

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our backup judges. So, um the presiding judge, they have a list. If our judge can't be contacted, we have a backup judge who is I believe the nutly judge and the orange judge. So, this rotates. So, they're not they're not our it

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rotates. Um so, if we miss a call, then it'll naturally go to them and they'll handle that call. And that's just the way the Essis County judges work. >> When it comes to if the judge has some sort of emergency, she can't make it. We do have a budget line that for relief

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judges. Like I said, I've been in this industry for 16 years. So, I have a lot of relationship with judges that I have come in and to cover the session. Judge um Donahghue is actually on her vacation right now. I have a judge coming in

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who's going to do the calendar for us and I just paid them um through that budget. >> Thank you so much. That completes all of my questions. >> Yes, Councilman Kovia. >> Thank you. Welcome, son. >> Uh just wanted to perhaps clarify while

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we're on this page here and I don't know whether you had the advantage of seeing the questions that I forwarded and Mr. Okay. Okay. That that's helpful. Uh, >> unless they were the ones for a couple of months ago instead of like were those the older questions? >> Those were today.

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>> Okay. No, I didn't see those. I'm sorry. >> Okay. So, as everybody can tell, we've had some uh uh some changes in the judgeships here in the municipal court. Yes. And I just want to make sure if anybody is wondering

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about the number here, how this translates into what was going on in 2025 and what will be going on in 2026. And I have to say I I don't know why the base salary for the

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judge of the municipal court is set at $105,000, but maybe you could just explain. I thought that the number was actually a little bit lower, but I just want to make sure that we've >> You're just correct. >> Yeah. Okay. That's why we cut the 10. Yeah. Cuz I think when we first put it together, we were unsure where we were

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going to land. >> So So the 105,000 up there is now >> 95 95,000. Okay. Bigger bar. So on uh line item uh down here at the bottom where it's there are two account

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numbers uh ending in the first one is ending in 0 1 0 and the next one is ending in one 0 0. >> The the base uh that's given here

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is or includes the $105,000. that should also be reduced by 10,000. >> 10,000. So, it goes to 427. >> Okay. And on the overtime, uh you can see the proposed changes

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here. I'm just uh I'm curious as to why we would be expecting to have the same overtime this year that we had last year when we had two new hires last year. Is there

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usually when you have hires your overtime goes down? In this case, it's basically projected to be the same this year. Is there some other dynamic going on uh that we should be aware of? >> Well, we're still clearing up things

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from um a couple years ago from CO. We're still trying to drive down. We're still trying to drive down those um parking numbers where um we work. So when we have our audits from um the county, there's uh certain things that

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we have to do. We have to um well try to work on them, but we can't work on them during court hours. So uh mainly these are like reports and stuff that we need to try to get under control. >> Okay. So yeah, um I suspect like this

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year we'll probably come well for 27 you'll be seeing 26 but we'll probably come under what we were be before we had you know a full staff but let me just say what has volume okay and we work

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with I have myself my deputy and two other staff members but right next door to us is Montlair they don't see as much as criminals we do maybe more traffic, but they have seven, eight employees. So, we're doing the same numbers

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great not a greater greater stats with less people. So, even though we um they do do overtime, it is necessary. It's not just like, hey, just stay after. They they're working on things so that

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our court can, you know, keep running smoothly. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. I just I I know we we're on page 37. I also have some questions about 36, so I I can sort of step aside on this. Uh but I would like to get back to 36 when when we get a chance if

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anybody else wants to talk about 37. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Go ahead, Councilwoman. >> Thank you so much. I know you do a fantastic job and the judge is terrific. >> Um I just am concerned about the overtime. Um I want to follow up on

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that. So far this year, you've spent under $3,500 in overtime, but your budget request is $1,800. We're kind of half kind of halfway through the year. >> Um,

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do you think that we can reduce that? I can't say that we can reduce that because if there if something comes up in the middle of the year and the county want us to work on numbers, I'm going to have to get it done some way. And like I said, I don't allow my staff to work on

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back things during court hours. So, I I can't say that we will. >> The employees that were hired are full-time employees, right? >> Yes, they are. And you're the most of the most of the um overtime has gone to um Mr. Castro.

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>> He's my deputy. >> Oh, what? >> Yes. Let's not discuss >> has g has gone to has gone to one of one of the deputies. I was just wondering if you could explain what that over time. >> He's the he's the only deputy. >> Okay.

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>> So, he also is the one that sits in the court sessions. M >> so mainly when he gets his overtime he's working on things um that took place in court um clearing the calendars he works

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on reports he works with the attorneys so he has his set assignments that he does after court has concluded and we've closed the violation windows >> okay >> I I myself don't do overtime

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>> so he works on a lot of things that need to be done. He doesn't work on my things, but like I said, he's the only one who sits in court, so he's the one who's going to have the majority of the overtime. My two clerks don't really do

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as much overtime as Mr. Castro. >> Don't say his name. >> I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm just answering her question. >> Just say going forward with all of our hearings, let's discuss by title and position only, not by name. >> Okay. So, so I would like to make a

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recommendation that we do cut the overtime given that we do now have two full-time employees and that the overtime used so far and we're almost halfway at the year is 34.86. So, I'd like to suggest a reduction of

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$5,000 to overtime to help bring in costs. I'll I'll second that because I was looking at the overtime too and listen to the conversation and uh we could always go back and give them more if the need be. So yeah, I'm okay with that.

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>> Okay, Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> So So wait, I'd like to make a motion to I now I'm officially making the motion. >> I'd like to Oh, I thought you did. Sorry. I thought it was to um reduce the overtime. Um, do do you need me to to

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list off the account number? >> No, it's okay. >> In overtime on page 37 by 5 5,000. >> I'll second it. >> Second. >> Nope. >> Okay. U would that be Council President Scarpa who second it? >> Doesn't matter.

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>> Yes. So motion council second. Council President Scarpa. >> Perfect. >> Motion to reduce overtime from 18,000 to $13,000. a change a reduction in $5,000. >> And before we roll call vote, I' I'd

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like to just ask Miss Hunt what uh what impact does she foresee if we reduce the uh the overtime by $5,000 if if I could at some point. Okay. >> Well, I I mean, being that if it does

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get reduced, we'll just have to move some things around. I mean, like I said, I'm always going to make sure my court runs smoothly regardless of what happens here tonight. So, um, but like I said, if at some point things change, the

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court system changes all the time, I um, please be aware I will come back and ask for it because, you know, like I said, we are surrounded by towns that have much larger staff than we do >> and we work just as hard. So, if need

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be, if that's what the um outcome will be, I'll take that. But if something does come up, I'll be back. >> Okay. >> Okay. Great. Thank you, >> Council Williams. >> Yeah. I just wanted to um ask for clarification. So, these um positions that are utilizing the overtime um line

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item that's a non-union position, so it has no requirement. For instance, a minimum of 4 hours if you are called in to overtime. that doesn't exist in this capacity. Correct. And can I just add um >> our my personal office procedure is no

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one can work over an hour >> a day. So it's not like he's there four hours and then four No, no one can work over an hour a day. Even if you stay over an hour, that's your prerogative, but I will not pay out over an hour a day.

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>> Thank you. And and for clarity, um the asks me 4hour minimum is for a call back. So if you went home and now you know 5 hours later we call you back and you get the minimum. If it's a continuation of your schedule, we we pay it for however long that you were there.

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So >> thank you. >> Okay, great. >> Okay. >> Okay. So right now, uh there's a motion to cut overtime by 5,000. Uh, it was uh made by motion by Councilwoman Ruden, second by Council President Scarpa.

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Councilwoman Castelino, >> uh, yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries.

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>> Yes. >> Is it is it possible to find out what the hourly rate is for it overtime? Um, for who? >> For this person who is using overtime.

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And um Miss Hunt, do you work weekends at all? >> I don't work weekends and I don't work overtime. >> No, I mean does does your staff work weekend? >> No. No. No. >> So time and half rate would be $78.90.

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Okay. >> And can I please just also add one thing? Um, last year we had a total of traffic tickets of 20,598 traffic tickets. All of those have to be inputed. They have to be data entry.

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They have to get dispositions. >> Can you repeat that number? 20,000. >> 20,598. >> That's just traffic. >> That's just traffic. And those aren't e tickets. Th those are written tickets

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that have to go in. So when we talk about overtime and there's no abuse of overtime in my department, we have four people. If someone's out, three people. Um so

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there are a number of things, not just reports, a number of things that have to be tended to. Do you have a number of the other um tickets that you also process property maintenance by any chance?

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>> So um prop well property maintenance would be um entered under under the criminal because they're ordinances that was um se we did 772. So that's including summons, warrants, special forms of complaints, which is

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what um property maintenance uses, special form of complaints. >> Thank you. >> No problem. >> Okay. Any other questions or can we move? >> I just want to say ju just I I to to allay your fears a bit. There are 166

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days left of the year and if your um your employee works an hour overtime every single day, this budget will cover that. And it will it will also cover if there are additional employees who also need to do an hour a day. That >> so I I think that you're going to be

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okay. >> Yeah. I I don't I'm I have no fear. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. So, I move for the adoption of page 37 >> and I'll second. >> Okay.

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>> Motion to consent. Counciloman Williams. Second. Scarpa. Did you get that? >> Yes. >> Okay. Is there any further discussion? >> No. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino.

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>> Yes. >> Council. Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Okay. Perfect. Thank you. >> Oh, sorry.

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>> Yes. So, I I'm I'm looking now at page 36. Oh, I'm sorry. It was Cand. >> Oh, I'm sorry. CBA. >> They didn't get >> I'm sorry. Sorry, we didn't see you, but did you have something you wanted to say? >> Because we could always amend if there's

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something that changes the equation. >> Say, can you hear me? Okay. Um, all right. So on the prior page there were concerns from the SABA regarding what would happen if uh well first of all I just want to say

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that Judge Donahghue is a wonderful judge wonderful judge but the SBA has concerns about if something catastrophic happened to the judge similar to what happened with Judge Dow and the situation that would put the township in. Um and then uh the

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other item raised by the sebab uh was Miss Hunt mentioned that traffic tickets are not e tickets. Has the township and the um the court administration considered

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implementing e tickets and would that result in savings? >> Okay, great question. Thank you. >> I can I can answer that for her. Um we we do have um e tickets. I've um asked, we have a parking authority now and

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they're utilizing more of traffic tickets. They don't have the handheld devices. I've asked the township about this for um the parking authority people to have these devices because I'm I'm going through a lot of tickets.

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I actually just had to um I I brought it with me a quote from um our printing people because I have now no more traffic tickets or no more SC tickets and the cost is $7,000

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and I've asked for um these handheld machines because I think it it's it's a it's cleaner, it's easier and it'll cut down the cost. I can't touch that budget. This always comes up. You know, the budget's $10,000. We haven't gotten

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there yet, but the line item is $10,000 and we tried to get it down. But like I said, once my tickets go, that's that's that's our operation, you know. So, I feel that if we want to try to get this down, it might be easier for them to

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have these handheld tickets similar to what NORC has, similar to what um you know, a lot of township utilizes those handheld machines. They do have them in the cars, but I think it would um benefit the township to have those. I

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have raised that before. >> I don't know the costing or anything, but >> Go ahead. >> I think it's worth looking into. So, I remember I remember that discussion and the amount of spending that we needed for the paper tickets last year. >> Um, you're the only one here from the

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administration. So, I have to ask, we have these machines, correct? >> Yes. >> Why are they not being used? And that would be a >> they're being used. I I think it's their parking enforcement agents that write all the >> chief, please.

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>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Just just to say I Mr. Tiffany, I apologize for um interrupting. The regular officers do have them. They use the e ticket systems. Our parking enforcement officers, we've just recently hired a second one. They are

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both um have been ordered through the uh justice burn grant. Uh we have ordered two of the tablets for the parking enforcement officers to get and utilize to omit the um handwritten tickets. They will also be using the e ticket system. >> How soon will that take effect? >> They've been ordered. I know the

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purchase order went through. I don't know the turnaround time. Hopefully, it's soon. They've been ordered. >> Okay. So, are you completely out of paper? >> I'm down to my last box. >> All right. So, I'm just trying to figure out how much >> I can do because I didn't know this. I I

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just just learning this now. I can probably reduce >> because I haven't put this through. I got the quote so I can bring it here tonight. Um, but I can't go back and say, "Listen, we won't need as much, but I'll need a date or something, you know,

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cuz I have to see where we are, >> right?" >> So, um, right now you have you have a budget of 10,05, right? >> And you have not spent anything because you did spend a lot last year. >> Yes. >> So, what would get you through? Can we can we just estimate that this is going

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to be another month or do you think it could be sooner? Okay. So, let's let's estimate two months. How much do you need for two months? >> Well, I can cut this down. Um cuz right now I have about 500 books being placed.

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>> Oh. >> So, I can probably um maybe do maybe 150 to 200 just in case. Um, and then if it doesn't come in in enough time, then I'll probably look to get a surplus of

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more tickets. But for right now, I I'll probably reduce that to about 100 150 bucks. >> Okay. And how much does that cost? >> I don't know. I have to go back to the um to the vendor and tell them to can they just generate another quote for me? >> Yeah.

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>> You don't have a a breakdown? >> I would let them do it. That's >> okay. >> That's their avenue. >> So, um, given given that this is going to probably happen fairly quickly, I'd like to I'd like to reduce this piece of the

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budget and then if you need more, hopefully this will this will be great going forward that you have you have the technology to do this. >> Councilwoman Castelino has her hand up. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. I'm sorry, Council President. No, I I'm

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good. I'll support I'll support Lorena a little bit. >> So, I I have my hand up if if she's yielded the floor. >> Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. >> Uh hold on. Reason being from what I'm hearing from the chief, it's going to be

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absorbed into his budget unless I'm hearing it correctly. So that's my comment. >> Is that true, Chief? Would it be absorbed into your budget? >> This is is going to be purchased through the just the uh grant that the township

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just received for 11,000 and change. So we've ordered two of the handheld e ticketing system. >> Okay, great. Council >> Williams, >> thank you. Um, I I am very cautious about reducing a tool that you need to get your job done that is going to

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support how we function as a community. At the end of the day, I am not supportive of, you know, ticketing our neighbors. However, that is a function of your office and you do need the ticket books um because if there is a delay, if we don't get the equipment um

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that we've ordered, we've already been told that there is no available timetable to identify how long it will take before we get the handheld readers. Um that's something that even if you don't use it today, there may be a failure in those handheld systems and

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then you may have to revert back to what you're currently using. So, I'm not comfortable um reducing uh what your needs are. >> And I have to say that does happen from time to time. The um the it hasn't happened recently, but you know, sometimes the machines and the cars fail

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to work and then the officers have to fall back on our tickets on our handheld tickets and they're available for them. So, like I said, I leave it up to you guys, but that is a very important um part of

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our job, and I always want to be able to be able to supply those. Um, but that's just the traffic tickets in this order is also the s the special forms of complaints and those are used by the health department, that's used by

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property maintenance, code enforcement. This is everyone who is in the police department. So that portion, it's nowhere to go there because the e sign machine is not going to answer for that. It's only for the traffic portion of this.

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>> Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. >> Castelino has her hands up. >> Yes. Thank you. So I appreciate you do such a great job, Mrs. H. We had we did have this conversation

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last year about this same line line item. And so I guess why I am supportive of reducing it this year. One because we're getting the new equipment and and I understand everything you just said, but two because the line item the amount

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that you actually used last year um which we were told you were absolutely going to need at least 7,000 last year. So, and it's good that you didn't have to spend it. So, we always like when you don't have to spend the the funding. Uh, anyway, I I just I don't feel that we're

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going to be leaving you too short. I didn't hear the recommendation of how much we want to uh lower it. I wouldn't support taking the whole line item out, but I think I think there's room in there uh to to reduce this line item. So, I'm going to I just need a to see it

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on here. The change is it $15,000 is the budget request is that 155 >> 10,5 >> excuse me >> 10,500. >> Okay. My eyes are just as bad as my my voice tonight.

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>> I mean I would recommend to make a motion to reduce it by uh $5,000. >> I don't want to leave her I don't want to leave her with anything because and I just want more confirmation from the CFO. I apologize. Councilwoman, how much

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was spent so far this year? I'm I'm seeing nothing. >> You haven't spent anything yet. >> We haven't spent anything yet. This is um we finished the order from last year. This is our order for this year and the quote was $7,960.

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So, um, while I respect everyone's, you know, input on this matter, like I said before, the court system changes all the time. And >> if at any point we end up in a deficit,

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I will be coming back to um, re raise the issue. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That's my motion. I'm going to stick with the 5,000. >> Okay. I'll second it. Motion. Uh Castelino second Scarpa to

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reduce line 030 printing from 10,500 to 5,500 a decrease of $5,000. Did you get that, Dina? >> Yes. Thank you. Is there any further discussion? >> No. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino.

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>> Yes. >> Counciloman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Also, can I just um answer the second

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part of her question about if um anything catastrophic catastrophic does happen with Judge Donahue? Um, like I said before, we do have a relief judges um, budget that allows me to bring in other judges and if something does

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happen, hopefully nothing does, the township would have that room to um, get another judge on board. We um are covered, right? Councilman Kobe, did you have your hand up? Yeah, I I wasn't sure if Councilwoman Ruden was finished with

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this page, but it just sort of popped up like >> um I think I think CBA might have >> I'm not I'm not finished with the page. >> Okay, we'll finish and then we'll have about this page. >> Yeah, I that I said about 10 15 minutes ago I wanted to address this, but uh

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>> I I didn't want to take away you have the floor, so I just was raising my hand. >> So, I'm just going to continue on with with with um some of my issues. Um, I think category 110 and 112 should be should be consolidated into one one

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category. We don't need office equipment and office supplies because basically when I did a deeper dive in there, it's the same same stuff. So, let's just let's just merge those two categories. >> We can do that. Yeah. >> Um, and then in in in um

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for line 90 for interpreters, they pay play a very key role. I know that you just had a situation where you had to find somebody from Africa. >> Yes. >> For an >> a certain tribe. >> Certain tribe and you found it. Have you build for that? >> No, that hasn't been build for yet.

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>> Okay. So, my concern is this. The you you're asking for $5,000 more than last year >> and you've spent very very little to date except for this the um translator that you just used. So, I would like to

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recommend that we reduce it by 5,000 to match the paid charge from last year. Uh, that would be the only budget that I would really um push back against. Uh we

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not only I don't >> Okay. >> I just um to date I just went to the purchasing department. I signed a $2,000 bill for um last month and the month

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before maybe 1,700. I'm paying anywhere between $1,200 and $2500 for interpreters. We have 8 to 10 sessions a month. Four days out of the month are interpreter sessions. That

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budget absolutely should not be cut. We have to have fair access to the courts. Um we have Polish interpreters who have to come in Creole >> all languages. That is one of the budgets that I really really utilize. We

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want everyone to feel as if they are being heard here in this court. Um, when we have people of other languages come in, sometimes they are very meek because they feel like they're not going to be heard. So when they hear that we can get

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you an interpreter, whatever your language is of this particular case where we had this particular tribe, very very hard to find this case has gone on for months because as we would bring in interpreters, they would say

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that's not my tribe. That's not I don't understand it. So we search very hard to get this actual interpreter. So that would be the only budget line that I'm really going to push back on not being cut. Our the West Orange residents

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deserve to be heard in our >> Absolutely. They do. Thank you for providing that access. >> I have the floor. >> That's fine. I'm giving a compliment. That's >> okay. So for relief judges, the uh to date you've spent 16.996.

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It cost $400 to get bench coverage. >> Yes. And I assume that there's going to be a little bit for the for the time that that Judge Donahue is out right now. >> Yes. >> Um how much how much is that for is that two days for the time that she's out

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right now? >> That would be 3 days. >> Three days. >> Three court sessions. >> Okay. Okay. Would it be possible to to cut that by $800?

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>> Well, I'm not going to um I'm not going to say yes or no there because I don't know what the future holds. I've had >> just a little bit of a background. I've had a deputy court administrator pass away, public defender pass away, our

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judge last year passed away. I cannot sit here and say, "Yeah, that can be cut." And something does happen, >> right? >> And then I'm in a situation. So, >> okay, >> I respect the council on whatever decision you come up with, but in my

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opinion, I I can't speak to that. I would say no. I I I yield the floor. >> Okay. Anybody else? >> Okay. >> I had a question, Council President. >> Okay. Go ahead.

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>> Yeah. Going back to the interpreters, and I think it's outstanding work that you're doing with providing and finding interpreters for our residents. I just got a little confused with and I apologize again. Um, I'm not as sharp as

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I usually am tonight. Um, so with the sessions, you said you have four more FE sessions this year that you need a interpreter or is that four sessions a month you need an interpreter? >> It's it's four dedicated sessions a

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month that has interpreters. But the base language we do it for is Spanish interpreting. That's the majority of our um second languages that come through our court. So we have it twice um at the beginning of the month

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and twice at the end of the month. We do the end of the month as well because property maintenance are now utilizing our interpreters as well. So it's two at the beginning and two at the end. >> And do you use a a service a particular

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company? >> Yes. So, we have to use AOC certified interpreters. So, we do have um a company that we utilize. >> Okay. And the bills, the $2,000 bills that you're paying out, are they for how

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many sessions? Like what what say >> four? That's the four sessions. And any um outside interpreting of the Spanish? So, if we have Polish, we get Turkish, we get all different sorts of languages. So that would be the interpreting for

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the month. >> Okay. So you're you're so you're paying about 2,000 a month for the interpreting. Correct. That's the most we've paid. I believe it's 2,000. >> Okay. Now I'm just looking at cuz last year you spent about 18,000

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and asked for four more this year and I I know where my council colleague was going. We don't want to keep you that tight. So I have to think about this for a minute. You only spent two, but you said you have some other bills in there. So, you only have two as of March 31st.

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You have some other bills. Did you have any interpreting uh need interpreters in January and February? Like, why was it only >> We have only paid out 2,000 up until the end of March, first quarter. >> We have interpreters every month. I

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don't know which billing you guys have in front of you, but I just um submitted two more billings that I signed off on today. So, we we do interpreters every month, four sessions

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a month. That does not we don't waver from the four sessions. >> No. No. And you should and you shouldn't. I'm not I'm not I'm not asking that. All right. Thank you. Thank you very much. No problem. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Did CBA have anything?

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>> Nope. Okay. >> All right. >> Councilman Kakoviac. >> Thank I I think we've drained this page. Do we need to >> Are we going to vote on it? >> Yes. Are you making a motion? >> Want to make a motion or so moved?

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>> Second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. And thank you to that. >> Council, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes.

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. Council Kobe. >> Page 38. Is are we ready to move to that? >> Yeah. Just just very quickly because I asked these questions ahead of time because I just was taking some of the numbers and doing an annualized run rate and I just want to make sure because the numbers

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that I did all sounded too much. It appears that Mr. Diniac actually did the the math for this specific pay period. So these are not these run rates are are uh accurate. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. These are through through eight

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payrolls. And um you you questioned uh a couple of the annual salaries and I I showed you that um those annual salaries divided by 26 times 8 agreed to the salary earning amounts here.

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>> Okay. So the last thing I wanted to ask about was uh special session judge. I think that's page 38. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh I was asking why basically our budget doubled from last year to this year and

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you said it was based upon an RFP uh I guess by this existing public defender. Do >> I are you talking about public defender or are you talking about um >> relief public defender? >> Oh oh oh sorry sorry we were on we were on the municipal court because you had those questions about the municipal

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court. I apologize. Okay public defender. Yeah >> the relief public defender is on page 40. So, I'm getting a little ahead of myself. So, I need to I need to >> The other three that I was asking about were on page 38. So, >> we're we're not to 40 yet. So, I I yield the floor. >> Council, >> I just want to go back. I know that we

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approved page 37, but I think there may be a little mistake because um the judge's salary is just being authorized right now. She has not received that amount. So, what is the actual amount that we need to pass for this year?

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>> The amendments. Again, it it it's it's dependent on what you approve and what's the effective date. So, if is the effective date going back to 112026, in which case leave it as 95,000, but I don't want to get like too far into

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>> Well, no. I mean, it's we have not approved and I don't think that we should do retroactive payment. I think we should approve going forward that this is this is the salary. >> So, Right now the judge's salary is I

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answered it in that question. >> Do you want >> Yeah. What did I say? It was 46. >> Uh yeah. >> The doubling of sal of salary. >> Yeah. >> Okay. The chief judge salary per the ordinance was 45,629

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and the quote judge of the municipal court end quote was $4,854. In 2026 those amounts are 46,698 and 42,079 respectively.

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>> Right? So the the judge gets the 42K and then is paid on a perdem basis for the the what we will call the judge dowed um former court dates. So every month we do

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a memorandum for the dates beyond uh Judge Donna Hughes previously what? >> Oh yes, thank you. the but >> we need a we need a a quarter tip jar right here every time we

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>> the judge >> we will solve this $5 million budget deficit in no time >> the judge's previously agreed to court dates that's what the salary pays for and then for those court dates that the judge is

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acting as chief judge it's paid per DM and we've been doing that since >> July of 2025. >> So what is so what is the year to date? And then if assuming that we are now transitioning to I I assume we need a

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resolution to appoint her as chief judge and and then a change date for when this new salary is enacted. So it will not be 95 in this category. So again, I I think I don't know what

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the effective date is. We're assuming the effective date is not going back to 1 one. And I and so I I I I don't want to assume that. Um so it's hard for me to say, well, cut it then.

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>> So what um what I just want to uh point out is that we did have discussions about this in executive session. I do have a meeting scheduled with our attorney and our labor attorneys because this is a personnel matter as well as a legal matter and we have a meeting

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scheduled for I believe this Thursday. >> So, um we could without belaboring on this page, we can come back to you with a more accurate reflection of numbers based on what we spent this year and then we can provide it back to you guys. >> Well, we've already approved the page. So if there's any changes that you need

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to bring to our attention, we would have to amend the fact that we've already approved this page >> approved. >> So if if it um comes to be whatever your recommendation is on how to handle this, if you all can just bring that to us and and we'll note that if we need to make

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amendments to this approved page. >> Yeah, this is this is getting into into payroll with the specific employee. I'd recommend that you discuss it in executive session and then should there be any further action needed on this page, you're free to revisit it. >> Thank you. >> And as I stated, we're having a meeting

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so we can present that to the council because that was based on our discussion previously. >> Thank you. >> And we'll clarify that at the next meeting. >> Okay, great. Let's not the next meeting. >> I'll provide it to you when we clarify whether we're we're actually hoping for next meeting. That's why we're having a meeting this week, right? So we're we're

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both we'll provide it to you prior to Okay. All right. >> Great. Thank you. Um, so H40, this is the public defender. Um, we received an RFP from our public defender. So not an employee, a vendor.

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Um, and the 35,000 was based on their their not to exceed for the year based on the number of uh of projected court dates. So that's where we came up with the 35,000. >> Are there any questions on this page?

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>> Yeah. Yeah, Councilman. >> Yeah, just a quick question. Was that the only RFP that was received for this position? You know, >> I can't remember. >> It's just a little amazing. It's almost 100% increase. So, I just curious as to

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the specifics of what happened. >> I I think it's a per >> It's a It's a peression >> per session rate. I I I don't have the the other >> Yeah, we can we can get you that. I just don't recall. We have >> you can come back to this page. I mean,

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this is an easy page to come back to. So, >> okay. >> What What was the day rate before? >> I I don't remember and I don't have my print out for public defender. So, I'd say let's come back to this page on another day. >> Okay. Just make sure we have all that information.

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>> Dina, can you mark that as a as we're going to revisit public defender? >> Yes. >> Thank you. We got a >> All done. >> We're done with >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> So, thank you, Miss Hunt, for your time

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this afternoon. Thank you for running an efficient court system for the township of West Orange. >> We appreciate how hard you work. >> Thank God. She get out of here. She knows how to get. >> Thank you, Miss Hunt. >> Okay.

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Colleagues, could we please let council president run the meeting? Following on Zoom, it's it's a little bit hard to follow. Council President, if you just could please lead the meeting. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Try not to interrupt. It gets confusing.

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>> Okay. So, we're ready for >> Good. Take a quick break because this is going to go hours. >> Yeah. Um, per the request of Mr. Dennia, we've been at this for two hours and perhaps a fivem minute personal break would be five minutes. told the police.

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>> Thank you. >> I don't think any >> Thank you for your patience, West Star. We are returning from a break. Uh at this time, I'd like to turn the meeting back over to the council president. >> Okay, welcome back everybody. We're going to jump right in with uh the chief

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uh Mr. Tiniac. Um, thank you, Council President. So, we're going to start um with the salary and wages for the police department. Um, the total page and and I'm zooming in here just because there's a lot of information on the one page, but we're

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going to start on page 94. It's the summary of the police department salary and wage. Um, so for 2026, the request is uh $15,743,000. Um the major drivers of of salaries are

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obviously that uh we have contractual increases for um for members of the PBA and the superiors. Um we have step movement. um for those officers that have not reached the max of their titles uh

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uh salary guide. Um and then obviously holiday and longevity if those officers have have those well everybody has holiday but if if they have longevity moving through the steps and having cola increases would affect those categories

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as well. Um will note that overtime um we're trying to hold flat year-over-year at 1,150,000. Um but you can see from 2025 we did expend almost all of that over time. Um

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so I invite uh uh Chief Fula um to answer any of your questions regarding the the PDS SNW budget. >> Okay. Go ahead, Chief. Thank you for coming. Good evening. How are you? >> Good.

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>> Great. Anybody have any questions? >> Sure. Okay. So, um the um cost for civilian dispatchers has gone

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up 25%. It seems 20%. Um why is that? So, our civilian dispatchers are are part of a separate union. Um, that union also has a a cola increase in step movement and I I believe we have an additional

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hire year-over-year. Um, so that's going to be the driver for the the 78,000. >> Is it staffed with the same number of people? I I think at the time last year we had >> had a vacancy >> we had a vacancy for a while and you

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filled it in 26. >> We currently have a vac I'm sorry. Um and we currently have a vacancy also for a communications operator. >> So how many how many civilian dispatchers do you want on staff? >> Nine is what I is is my goal. We

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currently are at 8 and we have one part- timerr who has been with the department going back three administrations who only works on Fridays. >> So are you saying the $100,000 last year was because you had a vacancy?

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>> Are we talking about straight salary, Mr. Dinette, or overtime? I'm sorry. >> No, just straight salary. So ba base salary pay civilian dispatchers. We had budgeted 380,000 um and this year is 458,000.

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>> It's got it's from steps and their and their negotiated contract the salary and the uh contract. >> Is this is this what has what has been paid to date and will it add up to this at the end of the year? >> Um >> or is it going to be more because you're

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saying that you want to add another dispatch the vacancy that we have. >> Okay. So, so you have Okay. >> Yeah. I don't have the >> that vacancy. >> I don't have the date on the dispatcher. Um, >> so

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>> I believe it's budgeted for the nine. It's just a vacancy. >> How long has that vacancy been been occurring? >> The vacancy created right now was from one of the police officers who was on a leave of absence from his communications operator position to attend the police

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academy as a police officer. he graduated. So now that vacancy can be filled because it was a a temporary leave of absence to ensure that he passed the certification of a police officer. He is currently a police officer leaving the vacancy open now.

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>> Okay. So how many months was has that position been vacant? >> Six months. It's a >> six months. So then shouldn't there be an adjustment for that to take that into account because he was not paid in this capacity for six months? Yes.

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Just grab All right. So, I'd have to look up that particular individual. Um, but we don't want to say names, but >> um, so I

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>> I don't know how to answer the the question. I know you want to try to reduce it, but I I'd have to see who that was, see what they've been paid and and cut it. Um, >> right. So the nine that we have in there

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are based on the step and and the I don't know I don't know if it's really worth it to do that >> talking about six months six months of of um salary that that should be removed from this category.

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>> It's actually about five months because this officer entered in the academy in December. So was if you're doing the actual calendar it's >> so then five months but >> maybe you can figure that out what that >> you can't >> you you you can't >> not not

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>> not the second I understand okay um >> because again I don't want to say >> I need to know the person and >> okay >> then I wanted to ask about the crossing guards um one of the things that well

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first of all why has that gone up as much as it has? It was 643 expended last year and you're asking for 7 and 47. That's up $100,000. >> So it it's it's based on the number of

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guards that we have and an estimate based on what they had worked in in the previous period. That that's how we came up with the 747205. So there's an eb and flow. We we move through officers. I uh not officers, we

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move through crossing guards pretty frequently. Um and then when we don't have a crossing guard, then we have a I'll let the chief talk about this, but but that's that's that's why like we'll we'll have a period where we're down guards and then we're paying police officers.

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>> Yeah. And that's and that's another thing that I wanted to ask about. First of all, I still would like a better explanation about why it it would be $100,000 more for crossing guards. their salary hasn't gone up that much in one year and we basically have the same manpower

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year to year. And then the other thing I wanted to ask about is that when we have overtime for police who are filling in for crossing guards, is it possible to have a substitute crossing guard on call

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so that we don't have to use the police at the rates that we're paying? >> Underst%. I just wanted to let you finish your question. >> That's it. >> Yes. Um, we have rousabouts school guards. We don't have sufficient staffing. So, there are currently no

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rouseabouts. We have schoolguard posts that are covered on a daily basis. We have a minimum of four school crossings that are covered by police officers on a daily basis. That's minimum because we don't have sufficient staffing of crossing guards to cover the current

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amount of posts. So going back years, yes, you are correct. We used to have what we called rousabouts. If somebody called out sick, a school guard, then one of the rousabout guards would be placed on that post. That hasn't happened in several years. >> So I don't have sufficient staffing for

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that of school guards. >> I did not realize that police are are being utilized to that extent. I thought it was only on an emergency basis. >> Oh ma'am. >> So how can we correct that? So, one of the things we have, just so we understand, so the public knows, we

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have 39 posts throughout the township. Correct? Yes. >> So, um we unfortunately uh have a u a situation where a lot of our our our staff is a little bit um older, >> distinguished, >> distinguished, distinguished. And so

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it's sometimes it's harder to maintain them because uh because as they decide that they want to spend their their latter years in a rocking chair instead of on a corner um we lose them and it's it's not one of those jobs that we have people rushing in to come fill the

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positions. We are current we we just hired a few just recently but I think we lost more than we have hired. So, so the the other thing is that a few years ago we were mandated to provide our crossing

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guards with time off and what that this time off that they received and they're entitled to based on the the law. They sometimes tend to use them on either inclement weather days or they use their days toward the end of the year when they're about to lose them. And because

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we don't have the the staff to um to fill those positions, we we have to fill them in with a police officer. And unfortunately sometimes, especially in the morning, it's similar when we talked about the jitneys recently. When somebody calls out sick at at 7:00 and they have to be at their post by 7:15,

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7:30, it's very hard for us to get that relief. So, our officers tend to get either held over or brought in early, whatever the however operates that. So, >> when was the last time that we put out an um job solicitation to hire more crossing guards?

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>> All the time. >> Mr. Megan has done that on several occasions for us on social media posting on the boards. That's been done several times over the past few years. >> I believe it's permanent in our jobs. >> It runs constantly on the east side. >> It's permanent because we're always

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looking for Dutch traffic. >> Okay. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, do you have something else? >> Um, that's it for right now. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> go ahead. >> Thank you, Council President.

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>> Hi, Chief. >> Woman, how are you? >> Okay, thanks. Um, so just going over overtime. I just had a couple questions. Uh, one, how much overtime has been spent through um the end of April? Do we

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have that figure? >> What's that? overtime. >> I I don't have through the end of April. I have through April 10th, which was payroll 8. Um, >> okay. What was that number? >> And

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and I'm scrolling down so that everyone can see it. Um, you know, our OT figure for for PD is at 416,000 through through payroll 8.

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All righty. Okay. And then question. Is anyone going to the academy this year scheduled? >> I'm sorry. >> Recruits. >> Anyone going to the academy this year? >> Yes, we have three just started. The police academy.

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>> We have three currently in the academy as we speak. So, >> is over overtime being incurred um uh due to those uh three officers starting replacing the retirees. >> Well, so that did bring we we are not

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currently fully staffed at uh what um the mayor has allotted at 98. We are not currently staffed there um because we just had one resignation um take place and we have another one coming up on June 1st. Um so the three that are in

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the academy right now, if you just give me a moment, I'll look at uh my table of organization. We are currently at 96. We have 92 sworn. The four that just uh uh graduated the police academy. I'm sorry.

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I apologize. Let me track that. We are currently at 96 and we have three going to the academy because the one that is uh the additional one is because of the retirement of a sergeant that is effective June 1st. So, we were allowed

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to put that officer in because it was only a few weeks. >> Oh, good. Perfect. >> Few weeks difference. I should uh stipulate. >> Okay. >> So, we will be fully staffed with these three going in. So, I'm not sure I understand your question. Does that

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affect overtime? Is that what you're asking me? >> Well, what I'm trying to gauge if you're able you only you spent 140 last year. Are you able to to be comfortable with that number for this year and shave 10,000 off? I can't hear her. I'm sorry. I don't know what she

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>> I'm sorry. I just I'm >> shaving 10,000 off of overtime. >> Overtime? >> Yeah. >> No. I I >> I think I think your question, Councilwoman, was is 1,150 even enough, right? >> No. >> Well, he spent one They spent 140 last

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year. That's why I'm asking. you know, each year is different and only he could judge what this year's g 2026 is going to look like. So, >> so I I have a complete breakdown. I mean, it's of overtime expenditures in

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2025. >> Um, because I have the administration in the police department break it down to category. Every expenditure is broken down into specifically what it's spent on from everything from recalls to

426
02:00:26.080 --> 02:00:41.599
township events to covering school uh crossings, prisoner guards, special events, um supervisor recalls, police officer recalls, holdovers. So, I have it broken down specifically. I comb through this

427
02:00:41.599 --> 02:00:58.239
several times myself and with the command staff. I cannot recommend cutting the overtime budget at all at this point in time. I would have to stand steadfast on that number because it's unpredictable and I'll just use one example was the winter this past winter.

428
02:00:58.239 --> 02:01:15.679
The significant amount of overtime that we utilized for the snow details was enormous. Though I cannot predict that. Um the only predictions that I could make is what we staff for town events and things of that nature. Staffing levels always remain consistent on each

429
02:01:15.679 --> 02:01:33.119
shift. Eight officers, seven officers, and seven officers, the day shift, the afternoon shift, and the midnight shift. That never fluctuates. So for any given reason, vacations, people booking out sick, training days, that

430
02:01:33.119 --> 02:01:49.760
staffing level always remains consistent. So, when that does require overtime, I do have that broken down into separate categories. The reasoning for it, I mean, there are several of them. If you want me to go over them, I certainly will, but I'm going to have to stand steadfast on the overtime budget

431
02:01:49.760 --> 02:02:06.320
because for a few reasons. It's unpredictable. I wish I could tell you exactly what I'm going to need so I could work with you and and agree if you want to cut the overtime budget, but I'm sure Mr. Datiniac can uh back me up on this. I can't do that. I wish I could predict, but I can't.

432
02:02:06.320 --> 02:02:20.400
>> No, that's okay. I don't want to give you a hard time. Um, all right, Chief, can you send us that information? You don't have to read it off tonight. I'm just curious looking at events and and whatnot, you know, to see if we could do better there.

433
02:02:20.400 --> 02:02:38.000
>> Absolutely. I I just >> Yeah, I I figured I just wanted to, you know, again, just try to get an idea where we could, you know, cut cost and um I just wanted to run that by you if that would be an area you would be willing to look at. So,

434
02:02:38.000 --> 02:02:55.040
>> I can absolutely forward to the to the council for for distribution because like I said, we do categorize it very specifically so it's very easy to understand. >> Okay, great. Good. >> Thank you. Okay. Yes. Councilwoman Rude, >> what percentage of that overtime is due

435
02:02:55.040 --> 02:03:18.800
to crossing guards. >> Good. So just to cover crossings um where there is no guard there was over uh approximately $14,000

436
02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:35.840
for crossings. So as uh Mr. Moraldo had uh said before, there are holdovers from the the midnight officers going on for the early crossings and then there are holdovers for the day officers to cover the early uh afternoon crossings. Like I

437
02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:53.440
said, there are four current vacancies daily that we need to staff. I do staff it with onduty personnel except when it brings us down below staffing levels then we'll then we're required to hold people over and utilize overtime for that purpose. >> What's the biggest driver of your

438
02:03:53.440 --> 02:04:12.800
overtime? So with the vacancy in communications and with their no no relief factor for the communications communications officers when they are out sick or on vacation and if a communication officer

439
02:04:12.800 --> 02:04:29.360
does not take the the uh overtime then it goes to a police officer. So the difference there in pay is significant. So that is one of the driving factors of overtime for the communication center which does absorb a lot a lot of the >> and is that dispatch when you're saying communication?

440
02:04:29.360 --> 02:04:44.239
>> Yes, communications officers are our dispatchers. So how our policy works is if there's a vacancy on the police desk for a communications officer, it's offered to the civilian staff first. If nobody takes the overtime, then it goes

441
02:04:44.239 --> 02:05:05.599
to a police officer. >> And how much is that in terms of dollars? So that was close to $89,000 for officers working in communications. >> I'm sorry. >> $88,892

442
02:05:05.599 --> 02:05:38.880
is the figure that I have on my overtime sheet. So, do we need to hire another communications officer? >> Yes. I'd like to fill that vacancy that we have. Yes. >> Anyone else? Are you anything else? >> Where can you give up some money

443
02:05:38.880 --> 02:05:56.159
>> in overtime? No, just in your budget and what >> I've worked very closely with Mr. Diniac and what was the budget that was submitted? I already have cut $49,500 from the budget that was submitted >> that was going to be submitted. I worked very closely with Mr. Dinette on that.

444
02:05:56.159 --> 02:06:11.599
So, I mean that's a pretty significant amount, >> but it's also increased a million dollars. >> Oh, I I think we're talking uh salary and wages, not not the >> Oh, I'm sorry. How can I reduce salary and wages? It's contract.

445
02:06:11.599 --> 02:06:26.960
>> No, I'm not talking about I'm talking about overtime and um crossing guards and dispatch. >> So dispatch, if I can get a qualified

446
02:06:26.960 --> 02:06:43.679
person to fill that nine spot, that will that will help significantly. Mhm. >> Crossing guards. I have my own um opinion on that which I'm working on currently that you know something that I may propose to the to the uh administration in the near future. I have an idea on that. Um I don't think

447
02:06:43.679 --> 02:07:03.760
it's for discussion in this budget though. Okay. >> That would save us money. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And involve outsourcing. Outsourcing. >> I have a I'm working on a plan. All right. No further questions. Hey,

448
02:07:03.760 --> 02:07:20.520
>> do you have anything? Uh, >> Councilman Kobak. >> No, not on this page. Thank you. >> Okay. So, can we um move for the announcement after this? >> A second. >> What page number is this? >> Oh, see what? >> I apologize.

449
02:07:30.159 --> 02:07:47.040
Uh, so on behalf of the Citizen Budget Advisory Board, so I see at least one name on here, and I know I'm not mentioning names, but I see at least one name on here that's a retired officer. Um, I'm wondering why that remains on the budget, and if um, Mr. Diniac and

450
02:07:47.040 --> 02:08:06.239
the chief could go through. >> Just just give me the name. Um, >> it's on page 90 midway midway down. >> Okay. >> For total compensation 132 80271. Maybe that's the way to go.

451
02:08:06.239 --> 02:08:32.800
>> Was small, but >> I see it. So I just knowing that that one officer is retired, I'm imagining that if there are other retired officers, they shouldn't be included in the budget. >> Absolutely. For 132,000. Sorry. >> Oh, no, no, go ahead. I'll finish your

452
02:08:32.800 --> 02:08:47.199
comment numbers. >> I just I would just hope that any of the officers that are retired, you know, are identified for the council so that you're not including full salaries into the budget. I think that's the only >> I think that's the only comment.

453
02:08:47.199 --> 02:09:04.320
>> Okay, great. Mr. Oh no. So without saying the name um obviously um yes that particular individual retired and everybody will move up and then we'll be replaced with a um

454
02:09:04.320 --> 02:09:21.760
with everybody below. So yeah, I guess you could go ahead and maybe prorate some of them. Um, but at the at the time I put it together, I don't even think I I knew they were leaving yet. So, um, if that's what the council

455
02:09:21.760 --> 02:09:38.800
wants, you know, we can go and and prorate and trim it a little bit more. >> Yes. I'd like to make that recommendation that we uh adjust the budget for the retiree. >> Yes. >> It requires a second. >> I'll second it. >> Any retirees?

456
02:09:38.800 --> 02:09:55.440
>> Well, can you identify who they are? Can you >> No, no. Well, we just Yeah, we're not going to say, but >> can you also look to see if there are others who are >> so then we'll we'll we'll come back to >> Okay, >> we can still go to OA for now and then we'll ask woman Castelino has a

457
02:09:55.440 --> 02:10:11.119
question. >> Yeah, Mr. If you could on every retiree at the very end to say this takes us another month. I think it's fair to say working with us by now in each department if

458
02:10:11.119 --> 02:10:26.560
there's additional breakage that could is calculated out we should assume it's going to be um uh uh what you call revised on the budget. So I would just ask that moving forward with

459
02:10:26.560 --> 02:10:44.000
>> get filled. So and I think I recommended last year not to do that but if this is what you want we'll we'll do it. >> Okay. >> Can can you >> Yes. Go ahead. >> Can you clarify exactly what it gets filled? >> Yeah. So if if somebody retires, you're

460
02:10:44.000 --> 02:11:00.000
going to get a promotion. somebody will fill that role and then the one below will move up and then you know the patrolman that became the sergeant will be replaced with someone from the academy. So you know there's going to be names at the end of the year that are

461
02:11:00.000 --> 02:11:15.440
not on here because of those promotions. But I understand because there's after you get out of the patrolman there's not as many like steps. It's like min max. But you would have you'd have a delta between someone that

462
02:11:15.440 --> 02:11:32.560
retired that was a max versus the new person that comes in as a minimum. So there's there's little pockets of savings there, I guess. >> So if I can just continue down that um >> in the posi in the position of the person that we identified just now, that

463
02:11:32.560 --> 02:11:49.520
was $132,000 salary, but that breakage has already occurred and no one has actually been promoted as of yet. So, we do have a little bit of time where we could make that little bit of time. Yeah. >> Financial adjustment. And since we're going through this arduously, taking

464
02:11:49.520 --> 02:12:07.280
5,000 here, 500 here, a,000 there, maybe that substantial salary of $100,000 plus could be updated and it might eliminate $20,000. So, >> sure, we'll do that. Thank you. >> We'll go through everybody that we know,

465
02:12:07.280 --> 02:12:25.199
>> well, it obviously has retired and know will retire. and uh we'll identify them. >> I didn't mean to come back but just in response because of I I I think that last year the citizen budget advisory board recommended that um that exactly

466
02:12:25.199 --> 02:12:41.760
what was just described that someone will be promoted that they're not promoted at the same number and particularly in light of how longevity has changed etc. you know, if you look at that line item that I just described, there's other considerations, not just straight salary, right? So, whenever

467
02:12:41.760 --> 02:12:58.800
possible, if we could be reducing in that regard, particularly looking at these um retirees, I think it's an important >> um adjustment to the budget or the SEBA thinks it's an important judgment to adjustment to the budget. Thank you. >> Okay, great. >> Okay, so we won't be able to knock those

468
02:12:58.800 --> 02:13:14.079
off. We'll just hold on with those pages. 90 91. >> Is there a motion on the floor right now? >> No, just motion to t or can we table it then? >> table

469
02:13:14.079 --> 02:13:31.520
uh 9192. >> I'll make a motion to table >> to table what to table >> table the salary and wage until a future date. >> I'll second it. So, what pages is that? 91 through 94. >> Correct.

470
02:13:31.520 --> 02:13:48.159
>> Yeah. Okay. >> So, is there there was a motion? Yes. And I second. >> We can do that by consent if you so choose. >> Councilwoman Castelina made the motion. I second. >> Yes. >> Consent. >> Yeah. Consent. >> Consent.

471
02:13:48.159 --> 02:14:07.920
>> Okay. Perfect. Thank you. >> So, we're moving now to page 101. the police department's OE budget and uh I'll let um Chief Fuel answer any of your questions.

472
02:14:07.920 --> 02:14:24.719
>> Yeah, >> okay. Who'd like to start? >> Uh council, >> a quick question. >> Councilman Koviac, go ahead. >> Yeah, it sounded like uh Councilwoman Gasolina wanted to speak. That's >> okay. You could go first. I'm still

473
02:14:24.719 --> 02:14:40.880
catching my voice. That's going to be a while. Sounds like council will uh on uh on line item 200 investigations. Last year we spent uh a little under

474
02:14:40.880 --> 02:14:57.040
$2,000 and you want to spend uh 5,000 this year. We've already got a paid or charged in for more than the budget. So I'm just the budget request. So, I'm just trying to figure out what's what's going on

475
02:14:57.040 --> 02:15:12.000
here. We went we only spent 2,000 less than $2,000 last year. Now, it's up to 5,000 in the budget request and we were actually we paid or charged more than $5,000. So, >> what was the number complement? I'm sorry.

476
02:15:12.000 --> 02:15:37.079
>> Line 200 investigations. >> Investigations. So, we combined uh three line items into what? Into one. Under investigations, we combined investigative supplies uh 115 ongoing.

477
02:15:38.480 --> 02:16:01.920
>> Yeah, let me look at it. Right. So I the chief I I'll just the major drivers um of the investigation line or the payment of the TransUnion risk and alternative company for the online

478
02:16:01.920 --> 02:16:17.440
investigative services. You want to speak to that, Chief? >> Yes, that's absolutely necessary for follow-up investigations. The detectives have to have access to that for their active investigations. And then we pay Comcast for um the special camera. What

479
02:16:17.440 --> 02:16:37.599
is it? Uh special camera account. Uh >> that comes out of that line as well. >> That one I'm not familiar with. John, I'm sorry. I have to uh I'd have to get you an answer on that. What that exactly is >> I think do do we have uh camera systems?

480
02:16:37.599 --> 02:16:53.519
Yes. >> Throughout town that's covers that. >> Yes. those camera systems. >> Thank you. >> So, I'm sorry. CCTV cameras, >> correct? Yeah, we have some cameras. I don't know the locations. >> Yeah, they're they're uh sporadic

481
02:16:53.519 --> 02:17:10.080
throughout the township. I can get you the exact location, too. >> And there's a special um service we use Comcast for for those cameras. >> Yeah. >> So, they can broadcast and they have it you have it in in in your dispatch center. >> Yes. Yeah. >> It's monitored for etc.

482
02:17:10.080 --> 02:17:26.000
>> Okay. So it's so these are CT TV cameras that are spread around the town and they're hooked up to a a viewing area where you're monitoring it. Is that is that what I'm saying? >> And and central communications.

483
02:17:26.000 --> 02:17:41.519
>> Okay. So So these cameras are being used to perhaps see traffic or >> wherever whatever we need them for for any investigation. if there's something specific happening in an area of town because they are also mobile. We can we can move them.

484
02:17:41.519 --> 02:17:57.920
>> Okay. So, they're so they're wireless. >> Yes, they're surveillance cameras. Yes. >> And they're mobile. Okay. So, uh are these the ones that are left over from like 10 years ago or these are new ones that >> they're they're they're newer than the ones you're talking about? Yes. Okay. 10 years.

485
02:17:57.920 --> 02:18:14.399
>> Okay. Uh I also wanted to ask about line item 207, the Mental Health Association Partnership. >> Okay. just want to know how the uh dollar figure was arrived at and what it actually pays for.

486
02:18:14.399 --> 02:18:32.479
>> Okay. So, want to get to that? >> Yeah. Yeah, I got it. >> Okay. So, the initial grant that we received back in 2021 covered that program. The initial grant has expired. Uh it was actually extended a few months into

487
02:18:32.479 --> 02:18:47.519
2025. Um, and now that money had been expended, so we no longer have a grant available for mental health associates. Um, as Mr. Sullivan uh spoke before, I would implore the council not to cut

488
02:18:47.519 --> 02:19:04.880
this from the budget. Um, it there are no more grants available for this um for this for MHA. Uh we continually are looking with with Millennium and Katherine. She's always

489
02:19:04.880 --> 02:19:20.160
searching for us to see if there are, but currently there are no award grants available for this. So the budget that we need that's in my budget is the 19 >> 195,000. It's $16,333

490
02:19:20.160 --> 02:19:36.880
a month is uh what we've previously paid and and what MHA is honoring now. >> Um >> you're getting you're getting ahead of me, Chief. I I'm not I'm not looking to make a motion to to get rid of this or to impair it. I'm trying to understand

491
02:19:36.880 --> 02:19:54.560
how uh how that number is is determined. So what does it pay for over what time period? That sort of thing. I'm just >> I'm sorry. >> The ask is for a full year at at the contractual rate of $16,333

492
02:19:54.560 --> 02:20:09.200
a month. >> So that's how we arrived at the 195. >> Okay. And what does that pay for? >> Sure. >> So, so that pays for two clinical co-responders, their total salaries, uh their benefits,

493
02:20:09.200 --> 02:20:25.920
and the administrative costs for the supervision of them. That's what is uh the total budget is con consisted of. >> Okay. So, are these these two co-responders are they employees? No. Or where do they come from? >> They're they're employees of the mental health association.

494
02:20:25.920 --> 02:20:42.800
>> They're not our employees. They're a vendor. >> Okay. And And how was that number determined? The association just said, "These are what it's going to cost to get these two co-responders." And and do they do they basically do shifts? Will they be on site for if

495
02:20:42.800 --> 02:20:59.280
there's a problem? >> Yes, sir. >> Oh, okay. >> So, that that gives us coverage of um Monday through Friday from 700 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. for any call out. They're on our radio system. Whenever we need an MHA

496
02:20:59.280 --> 02:21:14.800
employee, they are called out through our radio system. Okay. And they respond. It's a co-response. >> So they're in West Orange basically serving their shift. Is that or >> if they're not in physically in West Orange, they're very close. >> Okay. Okay. And then what happens on the weekends?

497
02:21:14.800 --> 02:21:29.359
>> So on the weekends there is no coverage, but I have a very good relationship with them. If it's something that I need, they will come out. if it's if it's immediate. If not, they do follow-up investigations. They make contact with the individual that was having the

498
02:21:29.359 --> 02:21:46.319
crisis the next business day. >> And do you keep statistics and uh do analysis and reports? I'm just curious as to how many how many uh uh incidents that they went out on say in 2025. >> Yes, sir. So, in 2025, the police

499
02:21:46.319 --> 02:22:03.359
department responded to approximately 41,000 calls for service during the year. 542 of those calls for service involve a mental uh mental health associates um for a uh crisis.

500
02:22:03.359 --> 02:22:20.160
>> Do you do any sort of evaluation of the success of of these particular responses? In other words, you know, did you would you for example, you'd grade whatever the interaction was and it would be from one to five 5B and this we

501
02:22:20.160 --> 02:22:35.439
handled this perfectly or >> well actually MH I didn't mean to interrupt you sir actually MHA does that analysis for us on a monthly basis. We supply them with bodywn camera footage and they review every one of the mental

502
02:22:35.439 --> 02:22:52.560
health calls and they give us a report monthly on where we performed well with them, where there is room for improvement. They also they also supply monthly training from the outcome of the reviews of those cameras. >> Wonderful.

503
02:22:52.560 --> 02:23:06.160
>> Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you very much. >> Councilwoman Castelino had a hand on her. Thank you, council president to stay on this subject. Chief, I hope you could hear me.

504
02:23:06.160 --> 02:23:25.040
So, what I'm hearing is it's $16,333 a month for to keep this. >> That's correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, it's in April. So, I'm doing I'm doing the

505
02:23:25.040 --> 02:23:45.520
math, Mr. Diniac and I'm showing that we should only need to the end of the year for 10 for nine more payments 1469.99.97. >> No, we only we only paid for January through 330 uh March 31st. You need

506
02:23:45.520 --> 02:24:00.720
195,000. >> You only pay through January. So >> yeah. >> So you pay them quarterly or how often do you pay them? You don't pay them monthly. We're supposed to pay them monthly. They didn't bill us in February and March until late. Um because I I

507
02:24:00.720 --> 02:24:17.040
think there was a transition period of like, oh, are you guys going to keep using us and all that? Um which we obviously did. But yeah, the the monthly charge is 16,333. So if you multiply that by 12, you get the 195 I asked for. So, you know,

508
02:24:17.040 --> 02:24:32.240
>> I saw I saw I saw that. I just thought you said they paid a couple months in on the on the year. >> No, no, we we only we only had paid them the one month when I when I put this together. So,

509
02:24:32.240 --> 02:24:48.080
>> Okay. So, you have to pay them. And so, they're So, they're determining that they need two clitical responders because I thought there was talk earlier in this year when we knew this was going away if we could do with just one responder.

510
02:24:48.080 --> 02:25:05.200
So, it is two two responders, but there's usually only one available to us. So, they cover each other. >> Are we paying? >> Okay. But if they're not >> because there's I'm I'm sorry, uh, Councilwoman, there's two shifts per day there. Their coverage is from 7:00 a.m.

511
02:25:05.200 --> 02:25:21.120
to 11:00 p.m. So, there'll be one co-responder during the day and one co-responder during the afternoon evening hours. >> Okay. Um, all right. if we could get a breakdown of all that sent to chief

512
02:25:21.120 --> 02:25:36.880
to see what what we could do. I know it was great when we had the the grant. Um I read the reports they've done now they've given us an outstanding service, but I also think we should should dive a little deeper in it to see what we could

513
02:25:36.880 --> 02:25:54.080
um cut down on this. Um also uh do we need more cameras? Do we have enough cameras? You mentioned the cameras in some on some throughout the township. Did we are we installing any additional ones this year? Cuz I know in

514
02:25:54.080 --> 02:26:11.200
certain places um they they're very useful. >> No, I'm not recommending that at this time. Councilwoman. >> Okay. And then um just a question on 095 court security.

515
02:26:11.200 --> 02:26:28.960
I just wanted to I saw last year we spent 35,255. Why did increase so dramatically this year 59,108? >> So we have a new bid um that was effective March 1st 2026. We have a new

516
02:26:28.960 --> 02:26:44.640
vendor. Um so we paid January and February with the old vendor and then we have uh 10 months with with the new vendor. Wow, they were that much more. >> Well, I think there is some savings

517
02:26:44.640 --> 02:27:03.920
here. Um, I think I wrote you back on on the court security. >> Read that one. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> the security I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No, go ahead. Read it. Councilman, >> this is what Mr. Diniac uh sent me back

518
02:27:03.920 --> 02:27:19.439
uh from uh as an answer to many questions that I asked ahead of time. He said the security contract for Sterling Securities which ran through the which runs through the end of 2026 and the outgoing vendor custom protective

519
02:27:19.439 --> 02:27:35.359
services works out to be about $52,000 for the year. So they're not fullyear calendar. They're they're both sort of slipping in here. Uh if I understand correctly custom protective for the first two months and then

520
02:27:35.359 --> 02:27:51.520
>> sterling came in. So, is there breakage there with I mean the old vendor was there first? >> Well, I I mean I think if you you just do the math, there's there's a little bit of room there. I I think we probably should also move this into the court

521
02:27:51.520 --> 02:28:07.120
because >> for the court. >> Yeah. This this probably this line item should just move into the court and this >> whatever the amount we we rest on should move. >> Can >> Okay. Yeah. >> I'd like to make that motion for you to do that.

522
02:28:07.120 --> 02:28:22.479
What? Council Williams, did you >> have a motion? >> We have a motion. Well, >> motion. >> Oh, I didn't hear. >> I think >> Do we need a motion? >> That That's fine. I I'd second that. That should move to the court.

523
02:28:22.479 --> 02:28:38.560
>> Thank you. I was going to do that. >> Mhm. >> That was going to be my recommendation to the council. I had that uh discussion with Mr. Mr. Diniac previously. uh it just inflates, you know, not to to pass off anything on to the court, but it really has nothing to do with me. It's a

524
02:28:38.560 --> 02:28:54.960
private contract. It has nothing to do with the police department. So, it's included in my budget. It inflates my budget. So, that was my recommendation. I appreciate Mr. Dinette bringing that to you. >> Okay. >> Um I councilwoman, uh >> I have we have to vote. We have to vote.

525
02:28:54.960 --> 02:29:09.920
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Let's just take a vote. >> Okay. So, this is to move line item 095 to the municipal court. Correct. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Not the new amount that Mr. Diniac sets.

526
02:29:09.920 --> 02:29:26.240
>> Okay. >> Council Williams has a question. Hol. >> I want to amend what she's saying. She's she's adding a lot more than she originally said. >> So, do we have to vote? >> No, no, no. I originally said that his recommendations it was to move to the court at the new at the new rate.

527
02:29:26.240 --> 02:29:43.200
>> Just to move it. >> So, we've got a motion and a second on the table. Well, if there's a motion to amend the motion on on the on the floor, then we could >> That was that was my motion that I understood was to move it to the other other uh to the other uh to the court and at the new rate that he said he was

528
02:29:43.200 --> 02:29:59.760
going to determine. >> So, we have to vote on that motion. >> You got to determine what the amount is first. So, we put the proverbial cart before the horse. >> So, I think there should be an except >> motions. Is that possible?

529
02:29:59.760 --> 02:30:15.280
>> You have an amendment? >> Yes. To that. >> Okay. And it is >> um the actual cost of reduction is it the difference is $7,000. So we should reduce reduce that line item by $7,000

530
02:30:15.280 --> 02:30:33.240
and then move it over into the court. >> Makes sense. >> Okay. >> I'll second that. >> So what do we vote on first? The >> Can we consent to the amendment to the motion? >> Yes, consent. >> Thank you. Now, we need a vote on on the motion as amended.

531
02:30:33.600 --> 02:30:49.280
>> Sorry, I'm just jotting all this down. >> I'm backing you up to >> Did you miss Did you miss us? >> I did, >> Dean. Yes. >> So, what's going to happen, I believe,

532
02:30:49.280 --> 02:31:05.359
is we're going to reduce the line item by 7,000. >> Okay. Then >> we're going to take the remainder 52,18 totally out and put it into the municipal court.

533
02:31:05.359 --> 02:31:22.000
>> Okay, perfect. >> So that vote has to be four to one at least because we're adding to the municipal court. >> Okay, >> you have me. >> I do. All right. So then um Councilwoman

534
02:31:22.000 --> 02:31:37.920
Castelino and Councilwoman Ruden second, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Perfect. >> And is there any further discussion on this? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. So, Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes.

535
02:31:37.920 --> 02:32:00.640
>> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. I have one more council president >> 115 investigative supplies chief. You

536
02:32:00.640 --> 02:32:16.240
didn't show anything for that. I just wondering what you're you're doing with the categories. The you there wasn't anything in there last year and this year you have 6500. I just wondering if there was a grant years pass if this is a new line item

537
02:32:16.240 --> 02:32:33.920
for you. So no uh what what happened with investigative supplies as I was saying before um we combined three line items. I combined um >> oh this one >> photographic supplies is that 112.

538
02:32:33.920 --> 02:32:50.160
>> Yeah. >> Right. Photograph photographic supplies and I combined um uh permanent property and camera equipment. So, I combined the three um line items into investigative supply.

539
02:32:50.160 --> 02:33:04.720
>> Okay. >> All right. Sorry, it I have my my document here. It's hard for me to see the numbers on the Zoom. >> Thank you. I'm done, Council President. >> Okay. >> And thank you, Chief. You've been doing

540
02:33:04.720 --> 02:33:20.720
an outstanding job. >> Thank you, Council Member Williams. >> Thank you. Um, Chief, regarding the mental health um line item on 207, the partnership um 554 mental health crisis

541
02:33:20.720 --> 02:33:36.720
calls, are you able to, and if you don't have the information um currently in front of you, are you able to break down for us um the outcome of those calls? For instance, how many people actually had to go to institutions? how many

542
02:33:36.720 --> 02:33:57.920
people receive supplemental services um so that we could understand what this um program benefits are. Absolutely. Just bear with me. I have the information here with me. So, like I said, uh

543
02:33:57.920 --> 02:34:16.000
we're talking about 2025. From January 1 to December, uh 31st, there were 542 mental health crisis related calls. MHA responded to them. They have performed outreach for 470 of these calls, which

544
02:34:16.000 --> 02:34:32.160
included follow-up support, not just the initial call. A total of 283 voluntary transports because of MHA being on site were completed during that time frame. There were 75 involuntary transports to

545
02:34:32.160 --> 02:34:47.840
hospitals for care that have occurred during that period. Um there have been 184 of those calls that were resolved without incident with MHA on site. uh 477

546
02:34:47.840 --> 02:35:05.040
of their patients were referred to services through MHA. Um there were only and this is this is enormous in in my profession of police department. There were only 20 instances of those 542 calls where use of force

547
02:35:05.040 --> 02:35:21.120
was necessary. The deescalation is invaluable that they provide on scene. Um, out of the 542 calls, there were 117 of them involved juveniles and 24 uh 64

548
02:35:21.120 --> 02:35:36.800
of them were from repeat clients. So, that's why the followup uh outreach is so important from from MHA. Um, out of all the videos that they review, like I said, that we supply to them on a monthly basis and the report comes back

549
02:35:36.800 --> 02:35:53.920
the next month, there were only four minor recommendations from them. That's how well our officers are handling these mental health crisis calls. Um, of course, it is a police response call, but it really is not a law enforcement matter. It's a it's a crisis due to, you

550
02:35:53.920 --> 02:36:09.600
know, some instability, mental health call. So again, I'm going to echo Mr. Sullivan's report before they are invaluable to to to the police department and I hope the council considers them to but to fully fund this. >> And if I could just um ask one other

551
02:36:09.600 --> 02:36:25.680
question. Um when I was on the council before, we actually got those reports on a monthly basis as you had indicated you received them. Um perhaps it might uh help my colleagues if they were able to see the success. Um certainly with my

552
02:36:25.680 --> 02:36:40.720
interest in mental health advocacy, I'm very clear on the benefits of this program. Um I'm also aware that um when you look at previous statistics from our police department, complaints about how

553
02:36:40.720 --> 02:36:57.120
people have been treated um when it is a crisis call because a lot of times family members um also are concerned about how their loved ones are treated. And not only is it the deescalation, but it is also the attention that is given to additional family members on that

554
02:36:57.120 --> 02:37:12.720
crisis call support not just for the individual but also for the other members who live in that household who have to deal with these things. >> Absolutely. Their their followup is tremendous and and that goes well beyond the police department >> right >> afterwards.

555
02:37:12.720 --> 02:37:29.760
>> Thank you. I'd like to just add to this too. It's not just the police department that engages with them. our fire department when they have transport our our senior services division. Um there's a lot of our different divisions that engage sometimes some of these calls actually stem from other our other

556
02:37:29.760 --> 02:37:45.120
departments, the health department, things of that nature. And so our other departments also support this, you know, all the way around. I think I I think we have a consensus up here. I think we're we're giving the accolades and praises to a service that that's just second to none. You call them at any time and as

557
02:37:45.120 --> 02:38:00.240
the chief indicated, we've had weekend incidents, they'll call us back within 3 to 5 minutes at the latest to get get an update and if they have to uh send somebody out, they do a tremendous job and we have we have a a good relationship with them. So, I just want to I want to stress to the public this

558
02:38:00.240 --> 02:38:15.439
is this is an excellent program that we we really we really uh need and support and we we support that up here. These are the tools when we talk about uh funding um social welfare programs, if you will. These are the tools that are

559
02:38:15.439 --> 02:38:31.680
absolutely required um for our department to do its best service. So, thank you for that partnership and I hope my colleagues will support its continuation. >> Hey, I think Councilwoman Castelino had some questions. >> Thank Thank you, Council President.

560
02:38:31.680 --> 02:38:49.200
Listen, I was a a firm supporter of this right out of the gate when uh the chief and Mr. Tran brought it to us many years ago. Um great results, but my question now is a process being that we are not receiving a grant from them.

561
02:38:49.200 --> 02:39:04.800
Are we able to go you directly contract with them? Is it considered professional service or does it have to get bid out? That's you know just procedurally is my that's my question. I know they're wonderful, but process-wise,

562
02:39:04.800 --> 02:39:20.240
um, are we handling this correctly? >> Yeah. So, process-wise, I'll say this falls under a professional service. Um, they're licensed professionals licensed by the state of New Jersey. So, there there probably should be a resolution

563
02:39:20.240 --> 02:39:36.240
done at some point to continue this program. Um, you know, I'll talk to the QPA about it. Um, but that would be my professional opinion. we should do a resolution. Um, and I don't know if resolutions were done the last few years while we were under the the grant

564
02:39:36.240 --> 02:39:52.560
program, but they probably should have been done then as well. Um, >> I recall we did do a resolution to >> when you first got it. >> When we first got it. Yeah, we did. >> Yes. Mayor. >> Yes, we did. >> Y

565
02:39:52.560 --> 02:40:07.439
>> Okay. Well, >> it's it's different now because we don't have a grant now. It's a contract, >> right? >> Right. I have a question, >> Councilwoman Williams. >> So, oh, I'm sorry, Ruden. >> Um,

566
02:40:07.439 --> 02:40:23.040
this is a very valuable service, but it's also we're paying almost $98,000 per person to to provide this service. How many hours are these professionals actually working for the township of West Orange? So, they're on

567
02:40:23.040 --> 02:40:40.160
>> I know they're on call, but you know, I mean, they could be doing another job while they're on call. They could be doing something else. Have you tracked how many hours they're actually working for us? >> That's a that's a tough question,

568
02:40:40.160 --> 02:40:56.560
Councilwoman. I understand what you're asking me, but so the 542 polls for service um that occurred during 2025, I don't know the amount of time they spent on each call. Sometimes it's several hours on the initial call

569
02:40:56.560 --> 02:41:13.680
depending on, you know, how quickly it moves to resolution. And then I don't know how many hours they put in to follow up with, like we were discussing before, follow up with the family, follow up with the individual themselves. I don't have those statistics to provide to you. I don't

570
02:41:13.680 --> 02:41:30.399
know that. I just know there are follow-ups. They spend time reviewing our body war camera footage. They spend time putting the reports together. I just know when they're available and I know they do um follow-ups on each case that they're assigned. >> Right. But I think it's important data

571
02:41:30.399 --> 02:41:43.920
to track. >> Yeah, I would agree. >> Is can you request that this be tracked going forward so that we have that information? This is a lot of money board. I mean it is 1% of all of the

572
02:41:43.920 --> 02:42:00.640
total of your calls. Uh it's 1.23%. It's not a lot of your total of calls. Of course any any you know positive outcome is is well worth it but still I think we should have data. >> So I would have to contact them and see

573
02:42:00.640 --> 02:42:16.640
if there would be any way to track um the the time spent on the initial call and the time spent on the follow-ups. I I don't know. I can absolutely look into >> there could be weekly time sheets just so that we we're getting that information because we're not comparing this to any other agency that's

574
02:42:16.640 --> 02:42:31.200
providing this. They are a wonderful agency, but this is also a very high price. >> I I can look into that if you'd like. I I could see if there is some kind of reporting mechanism to determine how many hours are actually spent on these

575
02:42:31.200 --> 02:42:48.399
services. Um, I I can only answer you that way because right now obviously I can't tell you how long they spend on each call and uh the amount of time they spend on followup investigations. I do not know that. >> Oh yeah, finish. I think Councilwoman Castelino had a question.

576
02:42:48.399 --> 02:43:05.600
>> You know, I just I just I disagree. I I think like now's the time where we have to um dig a little bit. Um and again, I was under pressure a couple of months ago. We were going to re-examine this uh to make sure it was we know it's viable. We know it's wonderful. I'm not doubting

577
02:43:05.600 --> 02:43:21.600
that whatsoever. I know it's needed. It's just can it be done better. And again, when it's grant money, I really think we need to see a contract from them and uh and whether we need to bid it out. That's all. I'd like to get an

578
02:43:21.600 --> 02:43:36.880
answer on that before we move forward to consent for this page, please. Yeah, I think it's important to bid it just to know, you know, what the competitive services are and what we're getting. >> If that's the council's desire, I'll try and do my best to find out if I can get that.

579
02:43:36.880 --> 02:43:52.960
>> Can I ask how was this number arranged out? If there's no contract, >> this was they had a number when they had a grant, >> but now we don't have the grant anymore. Isn't there any flexibility to say we're out of the grant, we'd love to continue the service, come back with a better

580
02:43:52.960 --> 02:44:09.439
price? >> This is a continuation of of the the previously contracted amount. So, >> correct. But we had a lot of flexibility because we had a lot of money that was from the federal government. So, maybe we should go back and talk to

581
02:44:09.439 --> 02:44:27.200
them and say, would they do this for less so we can continue this relationship? >> Believe that would be on the administration. Absolutely. That's it's your prerogative. Whatever you want. I mean, we're we're paying them to be on

582
02:44:27.200 --> 02:44:44.319
call for 40 hours a week, each of them. >> Each each week to be on call for 80 hours. We're doing >> Monday to Friday, seven. We're doing 16 hour shifts times 5. >> Exactly. Eight hours a day. 90 hours. It's 90 hours. It's

583
02:44:44.319 --> 02:44:59.760
>> But not But >> you have to understand this is part of emergency services. We don't work 8:30 to 4:30 emergency services. Emergency services happens when the incident occurs. You don't know when that's going to be. You don't know when somebody's going to have a mental breakdown or need the assistance. Whether it be in a

584
02:44:59.760 --> 02:45:16.080
mental case, whether it be in a motor vehicle accident, whether it be a structure fire or a heart attack, we don't know when these are going to occur. So, based on our analysis and based on our previous responses, typically most of our events happen less often in the midnight hours, but it

585
02:45:16.080 --> 02:45:31.600
doesn't mean it can't happen. We and they're they're on call. will answer for us. But, you know, the predictability is one thing. We can work with the chief and and work with mental health association and ask them to break these numbers down. That's that will be something we can ask for and I'm sure we'll be able to get it. How they

586
02:45:31.600 --> 02:45:46.800
actually charge this? Well, that that goes through a federal grant. The federal government has to approve this is B this is healthcare. This is based on health care costs and things of that nature. So, we have to we have to look into that as well. And as what the chief was saying, you know, some of these incidents, you know, I know that some of

587
02:45:46.800 --> 02:46:02.399
our officers can spend four, five, six hours on a individual call um because of the the escalation of the incident where and then where these people come in and they deescalate and are, you know, between our officers and the mental health professionals. So, you know,

588
02:46:02.399 --> 02:46:17.920
we're we're dealing with a a different kind of incident than than everyday incidents. And unfortunately, we've seen a drastic increase in these calls. Um, so this is something that's going on industrywide. So, we have to we have to be careful how we say we're just going

589
02:46:17.920 --> 02:46:34.319
to let's just cut the service. I mean, we we wouldn't cut the ser if you want, we'll do it eight hours a day. That's that's easy. But it's not the answer, you know. So, and I would say that let us do our work with the mental health. We we hear what you're saying here. Let's bring it back to them. We can set the chief and I and and Mr.

590
02:46:34.319 --> 02:46:49.600
I can set up a meeting with them to give a better breakdown and then this way we can instead of belaboring this because no matter what at the end of the day we believe in this program. Um we want to see it succeed and yes we do want to if we can get it cheaper absolutely we will

591
02:46:49.600 --> 02:47:05.520
do that. We will do our best to do it but I I think uh this is a discussion we should this is a vendor so let us do our work with the vendor and let us bring it back to you so that we can make a better informed decision. I think that's fair enough to everybody here instead of going over and over in the whatifs because you can't predict in mental

592
02:47:05.520 --> 02:47:21.439
health a what if. >> There's just no. >> There's just no way. >> Are there many vendors who do this? How many vendors do this? >> I can't answer that question. You know, I I'm sure there's other there's maybe others out there. If we go just understand if we go out to a bid

593
02:47:21.439 --> 02:47:37.520
process, it's going to take us a little longer to bring it back. So, we you know, we so but we'll we'll we'll do that. We'll look at it and we'll come back to you. >> Okay. Councilwoman, >> I I think that my answer my question has been answered. This should be discussed with the agency. We got a very generous

594
02:47:37.520 --> 02:47:56.240
grant. It doesn't mean that they the the federal government set the set the grant rate, not the agency. They're willing to take a very high grant. Who wouldn't be? >> Okay. Does CED have anything on this? Go

595
02:47:56.240 --> 02:48:18.319
ahead. Thanks. Thank you. This the entire right the >> Yeah. Okay. Perfect. So you answered the questions we had regarding court securities. We can pass that. I did want to bring up I think Councilwoman Castelino already

596
02:48:18.319 --> 02:48:40.319
brought this up. 200 investigations looks like it's already been spent but big difference since last year. Just wanted to raise that. Uh line 136 paid or charged was one $1659 last year. The request is over 3,000 and

597
02:48:40.319 --> 02:48:56.720
you've only used about 3%. Is there any room there? Uh the same is true for line 204. Um last year there's about 2,000, a little over 2,000. This year the recommended budget

598
02:48:56.720 --> 02:49:14.640
is 4,000 but nothing has been spent. So just um perhaps the opportunity is there for some savings and I think that's it. >> Great. Thank you. Thank you.

599
02:49:14.640 --> 02:49:30.319
>> Okay. >> So I'm sorry. I just want to uh >> the first one was on uh 136 computer supplies. Yes. That's no longer in my budget. That's an IT uh item now. >> Oh, >> that was moved.

600
02:49:30.319 --> 02:49:46.640
>> When When was that moved? >> That's it, Rachel? >> Um yeah, I mean for buying computers. Yeah. Do you want to take that out of Are you Are you looking to take whatever is remaining out of your account?

601
02:49:46.640 --> 02:50:01.840
>> Okay. Okay. >> Yes. Councilwoman, >> our IT director just recently assumed the responsibilities of the police department. I would say that if we can hold off on this one until he comes in on Wednesday because he has a better grasp of because I know he's doing an

602
02:50:01.840 --> 02:50:17.760
analysis and he's looking at computers and he's doing those things. So before we move on the computer one, let's let's ask him on Wednesday. We'll save this line item and if he's in agreement to move it, then we're in agreement. So >> Okay, great. >> I I should have presented it like that better. This is, you know, computer

603
02:50:17.760 --> 02:50:33.920
technology. So, it's really not part of my expertise. It was handled >> previously in the police department, but now it's been moved over to the IT services of the township. >> How about 204 >> and what was the other one? >> 204

604
02:50:33.920 --> 02:50:49.680
the field traffic seat. >> Oh, okay. So there the the reason for the increase there is that um we have we are requesting to purchase what we call the stat tracker that we usually use. Now there's one that I'm splitting the

605
02:50:49.680 --> 02:51:05.520
cost with uh director Carvalo from uh engineering to have it done instantly. It's the the data is provided instantly. It's it's laser. So um her and I are submitting this uh combined. So that's what the increase is. My my portion of

606
02:51:05.520 --> 02:51:23.040
that is 11,000 >> uh 500 to purchase that item. >> That's under field traffic saf but we only have a request for 4,000. You're saying 11,000? >> Yes. So I talked to Mr. Diniac

607
02:51:23.040 --> 02:51:38.319
about that uh earlier today. So I need that one. My original request was um for that to be included. Um, so I need to put that back in there, please. >> But what about the the crossing guard uniforms that have already been paid

608
02:51:38.319 --> 02:51:56.319
from this budget? >> That was a prior year >> from from field traffic safety. >> Prior years we bought crossing guard supplies, >> right? So things like that. >> Yeah. Are we buying any more of that for

609
02:51:56.319 --> 02:52:29.520
26 out of here or >> um So the portion of that s bear with me one minute. I lost my song. >> It's 204. >> I got it. Okay. So, I would recommend

610
02:52:29.520 --> 02:52:46.640
that we leave in the amount um originally requested for the crossing guards and and items like that. >> Yeah. So, I'm sorry. You're the software you were talking about that stat tracker that's out of the IT PD. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. I apologize. Yeah, that's that's

611
02:52:46.640 --> 02:53:00.160
where that is. >> Then then Okay, then I would be all right with the >> I I had I had to think about that for a second. I saw >> and I had agreed to decrease that line item by 10,000. >> Okay. uh 4,000 I'm sorry.

612
02:53:00.160 --> 02:53:19.359
>> So since so the field the field uh traffic safety nothing has been spent. >> Correct. >> So can we reduce that since you're asking for a lot more in another area. >> So you want because nothing has been

613
02:53:19.359 --> 02:53:46.080
spent of the 4,000 that was recommended so far. >> Is that what you're asking me? Oh yes. All right. Let me just see what else I had in there. Please give me one minute. >> Okay. So, I can work, you know, I can work with the council on that on that item if you'd like to reduce that

614
02:53:46.080 --> 02:54:03.840
somewhat. >> Okay. So, I'd like to to make a motion to reduce that to to 1,000. and remove 3,000. >> Second, >> the only other thing that comes to mind, I'm sorry not to interrupt you, uh,

615
02:54:03.840 --> 02:54:21.040
Councilwoman um, Castelino, is the traffic flares come out of that account also, which I cannot predict um, from year to year how many we're going to need. Uh, it was a significant uh, winter, but we still have a supply currently. So, um I don't know if I

616
02:54:21.040 --> 02:54:39.000
would recommend going that low because I can't predict again how many of those items we'll need uh going forward for the rest of the year. So, I would recommend that we keep some of it in flares. >> I don't I don't have that off the top of my They are expensive.

617
02:54:41.359 --> 02:54:56.880
Can I take >> So, so I mean maybe we can um cut it by half do the 2,000 instead of bringing it down to 1,000. I would request that you would consider that. >> Okay. I'll make a motion to cut it to 2,000. >> Thank you.

618
02:54:56.880 --> 02:55:16.160
>> I'll second. >> I'd like to amend that to Are you sure? Just 2,000, not 2500. >> I'll do my best, Councilwoman. I'll do my best. I mean, again, safety issues. I just have a problem with

619
02:55:16.160 --> 02:55:31.439
impacting the way you do your job. We're not officers. We're not policemen. >> You know, we have to respect the fact that your needs are, you've been in this department. You've been running it certainly as chief since November, December of last year, but you've been a

620
02:55:31.439 --> 02:55:49.040
police officer for >> 40 years. >> 41 years. >> I'm sure. >> Yeah. I'm sorry about that, but I I just I I do life, health, and safety to this community, whether it be mental health needs, whether it be public safety needs, you are the expert in that.

621
02:55:49.040 --> 02:56:06.479
>> Well, that's why I'm asking for this, but you know, if I have to uh concede to some of it, I would I would recommend not too much because I wish I could predict and tell you exactly how much I'm going to spend, but I can't. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate that, though. Thank you.

622
02:56:06.479 --> 02:56:28.720
Yeah, I think we have a motion on the >> right now. We have a motion and a second on the on the floor. >> Yes. >> Reduce this to $2,000. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Did we lose Councilwoman Castelino? >> Oh, sorry. I muted myself by accident.

623
02:56:28.720 --> 02:56:50.120
Yes. Okay. Okay. Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay.

624
02:56:50.399 --> 02:57:07.520
>> So, um if there's anything else just second that we can't approve till Wednesday though because we need it to. >> So, we can't Yeah. finalize because we got to get the information back. We'll wait for it. Right. >> Okay. I do I do have a question. Um for

625
02:57:07.520 --> 02:57:27.359
some of the investigation supplies, can they be can they be charged to forfeite? >> Could some of the supplies that I expend out of investigative supplies like the fingerprinting kit and things like that, can it be spent from forfeite funds?

626
02:57:27.359 --> 02:57:45.040
>> Correct. I'm not supposed to use forfeite funds to replace budgeted items. >> I understand. But we we have used we have used forfeite funds for some unusual categories. And why not supplement it with this

627
02:57:45.040 --> 02:58:00.960
with with using I mean exact the the definition of the forfeite funds is exactly to to provide um investigative supplies or investig investigative resources andor training.

628
02:58:00.960 --> 02:58:17.120
So, I mean, how do you >> So, the the forefeiter funds that are available um to me now have been over the past years when we've had officers assigned to uh outside agencies, the DEA, the FBI. That's how we gained

629
02:58:17.120 --> 02:58:32.880
federal forfeiture funds. Currently, for the last few years, we have not been able to staff that. We haven't had anybody on loan for quite some time. Um so, those funds are going to be stagnant for quite some time. uh because I don't foresee in the near future that I'm

630
02:58:32.880 --> 02:58:48.000
going h going to have the staffing available to allow somebody to partake in those types of investigations. >> But forfeite funds have been used this year. So there is a >> for used forfeite funds before we've had this discussion. Yeah. >> Yes. So is there any leeway to use some

631
02:58:48.000 --> 02:59:04.160
of that for investigative supplies which is what it's intended for? >> So I'm not supposed to replace my requested budget items with forfeite funds. I I don't know if that answers your question or not, but I'm trying to be as clear as I can. >> So, you want to move towards best

632
02:59:04.160 --> 02:59:19.200
practice. You want to move to best practice. >> Yes. >> So, then when can you use it for investigative? I mean, if is everything supposed to come from the budget? All of your investigative supplies are supposed to come from the budget? >> Yes, they've been budgeted for in the past and they're budgeted for Oregon

633
02:59:19.200 --> 02:59:35.920
again this year. >> Okay. Um, I would like to look at at line 41, the license fees. Is this a license plate reader? >> What was the number again?

634
02:59:35.920 --> 02:59:52.319
>> 41 >> 041 041 licensing fees. That's for the use of I believe um the MDTs and everything the licenses that the officers need to utilize that

635
02:59:52.319 --> 03:00:09.120
equipment. Yes, there has to be a license for each uh item that we use. >> I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. >> Uh yeah, this is the the renewal for the license plate reader software through Motorola. >> Okay. >> We need licensing for that.

636
03:00:09.120 --> 03:00:25.920
>> So, and this is going to be an annual fee, >> correct? >> Yes, ma'am. Is there some way that we can rename that >> um to software more like software license >> license plate reader? That's exactly what it is. So we know what it is next year. We don't it's not a license fee.

637
03:00:25.920 --> 03:00:42.000
>> The PD also >> software. >> It is. It's software. Yeah. Um the PD also charges their versat um IIA software, their internal affairs software um to this line item as well. So um

638
03:00:42.000 --> 03:01:01.760
>> and is this the exact exact um number that that you pay for the software? >> Correct. Yeah. >> So that's a contracted rate. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um for training courses and aids

639
03:01:01.760 --> 03:01:17.279
um you've you've requested a budget of 7500. You've spent $23.97 to date. what do you anticipate using that for for the rest of the year? >> So for any upcoming training that I need uh if um recently we had promotions. So

640
03:01:17.279 --> 03:01:32.880
that would be for example uh supervisory course that uh is recommended for new newly appointed supervisors to attend firstline supervision midlevel supervision and any courses um I have my training bureau they monitor available

641
03:01:32.880 --> 03:01:50.160
courses for um anything and everything that is is required and things that are just beneficial for people who move into the detective bureau who have not ever been there before. they go to investigative schools. Um we're always looking to improve training in the

642
03:01:50.160 --> 03:02:07.359
police department and send our officers to stay current with the current trends with current um schools that are available. So yes, that training budget I'm going to recommend you leave where it is because I'll easily spend that for

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03:02:07.359 --> 03:02:24.960
the remainder of the year for various reasons just as I I just indicated. >> Okay. for for 119 safety equipment personnel, you've requested 5,100, you've spent 6 650. >> So the 119 safety equipment, most of

644
03:02:24.960 --> 03:02:41.680
that expenditure is for our replenishing of our oxygen tanks. Going back uh several years ago when the um first aid squad was in existence, we used to just bring the fir the u oxygen tanks up there and they would refill it for us. Obviously, that's no longer the case.

645
03:02:41.680 --> 03:02:58.600
So, we have to pay for that and that's the majority of the expenditure out of that account is to replenish the oxygen tanks that are utilized in the uh patrol cars for the first responders. >> And how much does that cost to replenish the tank?

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>> Councilwoman, honestly, I don't have the specific figure um for each individual tank that's refilled. I can get you that cost if need be. Well, I'm just looking at the past two years. You've requested around 5,000, but you've actually spent under 3,000.

647
03:03:18.319 --> 03:03:37.760
So, um, can we reduce your your budget to the same as what you paid what you paid last year, which was 3,000, and reduce it by 1450? And that's looking back more than one year. So, you want to go down to what I

648
03:03:37.760 --> 03:03:54.560
expended last year, 33,000 from the 5100 recommended. >> Um, if that's your desire, I mean, I know there are other things that are uh pulled from that safety equipment uh reflective vest and things of that nature that be need to be uh replaced,

649
03:03:54.560 --> 03:04:10.720
but um listen, I'm trying to work with you the best I can, work with the council to make cuts, additional cuts where I can. Um, yes, ma'am. if you want to cut that down to, you know, I would recommend maybe 3500 instead of the 5100. I'll I'll I'll, you know, do the

650
03:04:10.720 --> 03:04:41.520
best I can with that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> So, do you have that reduction? >> This is for 119. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So, I just have to do And it's being reduced by is did you say

651
03:04:41.520 --> 03:04:56.000
35? >> It's being reduced by 950 950 >> being reduced to $3,500 flat. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you for clarifying. >> That's a red reduction of 950. >> And is that a motion?

652
03:04:56.000 --> 03:05:19.920
>> I'd make a motion to reduce that line by 950. >> Is there a second? Second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> No.

653
03:05:19.920 --> 03:05:44.080
>> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Abstain. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. Motion carries. Miss, >> sorry, I'm just jotting all that.

654
03:05:44.080 --> 03:06:00.479
>> The motion carries. >> Okay. And then the only other thing I wanted to look at was 206, which is bulletproof vests. You've requested 25. I just want to make sure that you have enough there because that's a very

655
03:06:00.479 --> 03:06:17.359
important safety. >> Yes, ma'am. I appreciate that. Um, so for the bulletproof vest, I have a breakdown of it for you so that the the council understood it. We have 14 officers. I'll I'll back up a little bit. The life

656
03:06:17.359 --> 03:06:35.200
of the bulletproof vests are 5 years. Once they pass the 5 years uh shelf life, they're no good anymore and they need to be replaced. So obviously that varies from year to year >> because everybody has issued them on different years, right? >> So currently this year in 2026 we have

657
03:06:35.200 --> 03:06:52.000
14 officers who need replacement, current officers who need to uh have their body armor replaced. This number increases to 21 in 2027. Um, in 2026, we already purchased four vests for the

658
03:06:52.000 --> 03:07:07.040
current recruits who just graduated. We need to purchase three more for the officers who are just starting the academy now. Sir, >> what's the

659
03:07:07.040 --> 03:07:24.479
>> We need a total of 25 vests for 2026 total. >> Do you have enough money for that? >> I need $27,000 for that. Okay. So, out of character with me, um I'm going to make a motion to increase that that line item because of the importance.

660
03:07:24.479 --> 03:07:39.040
>> Appreciate that. Council >> woman, >> what is the increase about >> 2000? It's it's >> I have to do the math. One second. >> What's the sir that you need? >> 27,000.

661
03:07:39.040 --> 03:07:56.080
>> To increase it to 27,000. We don't need the math. That's why we have >> Yeah, it's it's increasing it by $1,138. >> Councilwoman Castelino, before we make the motion, thank >> Yeah. I just have a quick question. Uh, Chief, um, we usually Are you getting

662
03:07:56.080 --> 03:08:12.800
any grant money for these this year? >> Yes, we've applied. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. Uh, council, go ahead. >> No, go go go ahead. That was my question. If >> Yes, we have applied for the 2026 grant. uh we won't know until June of 26 when

663
03:08:12.800 --> 03:08:29.040
it comes out. Um but regardless, the expenditure has to be uh put out first and then that's a reimbursement grant. So the the the budget money needs to be there initially >> and the federal and state grants for both profess are so small now

664
03:08:29.040 --> 03:08:44.399
>> very small. >> They used to give out a lot of money and it's like a pittance non-existent anymore. So that's why I'm definitely requesting uh the the 27,000. I appreciate it. I was a little short, but that's exactly what I need for this year.

665
03:08:44.399 --> 03:09:03.200
>> Okay. Thank you. >> I'll sec I'll second the motion. >> It's already been seconded. >> Councilwoman Williams seconded. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes.

666
03:09:03.200 --> 03:09:19.600
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you. >> Safety first. >> Never say never.

667
03:09:19.600 --> 03:09:40.960
>> Right. >> Okay. >> Now, what are we up to? We're done. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you for your time. >> So painful, right? >> Oh, ma'am. My pleasure. >> Do it.

668
03:09:40.960 --> 03:10:02.960
>> Thank you, Chief. >> Thank you, Chief. >> For all you do. >> Five minute break again. >> Yes, we'll take a five minute break. >> Okay. One. >> Uh, Councilman Kobak, you >> No, that's okay. We got to do the SMW

669
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first. I just wanted I just wanted to flag to uh when we get to page 70 >> that I'd like to speak. >> Okay. Just put your finger up so I know. >> Uh Mr. Tiniac, go ahead. >> Sure. Council President, um are we waiting for Let's go.

670
03:10:19.359 --> 03:10:35.279
>> Okay. >> Go ahead. >> Uh this is the uh tax collector's office. We're starting with salary and wages. Um we have an increase of $4,413 and it's uh related to um uh step

671
03:10:35.279 --> 03:10:50.720
increases in the tax office and also we had an employee that was in the prior year was partially allocated to the collector's office that that employee is fully allocated to the purchasing office

672
03:10:50.720 --> 03:11:07.600
now. So, um, you know, we had four individuals in here in 2025. We have three individuals now in 2026. That other person that I talked about can float as needed um around tax quarter

673
03:11:07.600 --> 03:11:24.160
time or if um we need translation services for uh our Spanish speaking residents. Um, are there any questions on on salary? Um, oh well, two of our members are um uh part of the ask me

674
03:11:24.160 --> 03:11:41.200
union and then the collector is uh a non-union statutory appointment. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Good. Consent. >> I move consent. >> Can we consent? >> Yes. >> Okay. Consent. >> Consent.

675
03:11:41.200 --> 03:11:55.040
>> Consent. >> Councilman. Yes. >> Yes. Councilman. If we're moving to page 70, I just want to flag this. >> Sure. >> Couple things. >> 70.

676
03:11:55.040 --> 03:12:13.120
>> Good. Uh on uh 070 professional services >> uh paid 70 u it was proposed as an increase and uh uh increase over what was spent and Mr. was saying in the transition that we

677
03:12:13.120 --> 03:12:28.960
might be able to save quite a bit of money by uh not paying for people's >> correct >> correct >> processing fees. Please go ahead >> if I could. Yes, thank you. So in in the current online payment system if you choose to pay with a credit card, you pay your taxes with a credit card.

678
03:12:28.960 --> 03:12:46.880
You're assessed um a financing charge that goes directly to the company's credit card provider. Um, the company being ZenGV that provides our online billing platform. We don't see any of that money. It it's it's it's charged

679
03:12:46.880 --> 03:13:04.160
directly to the resident and then it it pays the company for the the use of the credit card. If you pay with an an echek or a charge based on the way that Zen gov is set up cannot be assessed directly to

680
03:13:04.160 --> 03:13:20.080
the individual at the time of transaction. we get build the township is build for it on a quarterly basis. So we pay the the AC e checkek charges so that a resident can pay online. When we

681
03:13:20.080 --> 03:13:36.560
move to the Edmonds platform, Edmmonds can assess that fee, I think it's a $1.95 for an echek directly to the particular individual that's making that payment at the time of transaction. So, we're going

682
03:13:36.560 --> 03:13:53.279
to have two quarters obviously with our old system and then we should be up and running for 81 2026 so that we can make payments through the what we call the whip. Um, so if if I did the math properly, what did I say? The savings

683
03:13:53.279 --> 03:14:11.600
was around 11 >> 11,600 >> 11,600. So, thank you for bringing up. My recommendation would be to cut this particular line item by 11,600 knowing that the resident that pays

684
03:14:11.600 --> 03:14:27.200
the just want to be clear about this. The resident that pays uh with knee check or a will have to pay the $1.95 themselves. Um so where whereas previously they didn't we we paid for it

685
03:14:27.200 --> 03:14:43.200
as a whole. >> Mhm. When you say we pay for it, >> we being all the taxpayers, >> all the taxpayers are paying for it. So now we do it's more of a usage uh fee. >> Correct. So if you're if you're somebody that comes in and you pay your taxes at the window or you write a check and send

686
03:14:43.200 --> 03:15:01.200
it in, you were paying for someone else to have that convenience factor of paying with an a check. >> Okay. >> So uh I second 11,600

687
03:15:01.200 --> 03:15:16.319
>> like drinking coffee >> by 11 or 211 reducing it by 11,600. >> You want to make the motion councilman? >> Yeah. So so move to cut uh 11,600 item line item 70.

688
03:15:16.319 --> 03:15:34.399
>> I'll say I'll second now. >> Can you all tell I want to go to bed? >> Yes, council woman. Oh, I'm sorry. You're still going. >> Is there any further? >> The motion is once the motion's made and second then it's open for discussion.

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03:15:34.399 --> 03:15:50.080
>> Somebody wants to raise their hand. Council >> president recognize. >> Let's just vote on it. >> We could take the vote. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes.

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03:15:50.080 --> 03:16:04.880
>> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. The motion carries. >> Councilwoman Ruden, did you have something else now you wanted to talk about? >> Yes. Um, the printing tax and sewer bill. Is there some way that we can move away from

691
03:16:04.880 --> 03:16:21.680
>> Yeah, I So, I remember this actually. Um, I believe Mr. Goldman might have brought up this suggestion in a previous public hearing. By law, we have to mail the tax bills. We have to. We can't get around mailing tax bills. Even if

692
03:16:21.680 --> 03:16:36.239
somebody says, "Don't mail me a tax bill. Please don't. We still have to mail the tax bill. Um so we're going to get away from it for now. Um maybe in the future at some point the state will change their mind on that. Um

693
03:16:36.239 --> 03:16:51.920
but it we are stuck mailing tax bills. >> Okay. And and why has the rate gone up? Has the >> So postage goes up. Um we utilize a s uh a service that um

694
03:16:51.920 --> 03:17:08.640
that folds and and applies the postage. So you know the service will go up every year. The line items stay the same for the most part but just the the cost of we printed ourselves. Um but the cost of of

695
03:17:08.640 --> 03:17:25.120
of folding and buying postage and mailing them out goes up. What have we spent to date and what do we anticipate spending the rest of the year? >> So, we're we're going to we're going to spend close to the 155. Um, we we mail

696
03:17:25.120 --> 03:17:42.880
tax bills usually twice a year. Uh, and then sewer bills would be once. Um, with the tax bills, we we typically do a third quarter estimated. If if we don't have to, we can just mail them once a

697
03:17:42.880 --> 03:17:59.920
year. The goal is to try to do it once um and not mail out the estimated, but I don't want to take the funding away if that's not going to be possible. So, >> so last year we spent um 1434

698
03:17:59.920 --> 03:18:18.560
345, which is more than $1,000 less. Can we safely remove $1,000 from that budget? Um, I mean, I'll I'll make it happen if we needed to spend more, so it's fine. >> Okay. I make a motion to remove $1,000

699
03:18:18.560 --> 03:18:39.120
from the line item 30 or tax and sewer bills. >> A second. >> Is there any further discussion? >> No, I don't think so. Let's just vote. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino,

700
03:18:39.120 --> 03:18:53.520
>> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Okay. I just wanted to look at line 110.

701
03:18:53.520 --> 03:19:13.680
Um for materials and supplies we have budgeted 3,000 and we've spent 351 and this is for paying for reconciling the

702
03:19:13.680 --> 03:19:30.399
reconciliation. >> Is that correct? And and some of this is going to this cost is going to go down. >> The materials and supplies line. >> Uh yes. >> No, this this is where we we buy toner. >> Okay. >> Um

703
03:19:30.399 --> 03:19:47.359
it's mostly toner. We we we spend about $300 every few months on two pack toners. Um that's typically what we we buy out of here. And then they buy very few uh actual office supplies. I think

704
03:19:47.359 --> 03:20:02.960
we replaced a couple calculators last year. >> Um >> so >> we try not to buy too many office supplies. We're we're we're pretty good about you know we'll get pens from the bank and

705
03:20:02.960 --> 03:20:19.200
>> frugal. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> We're begging. We're begging. So, um, you you've only spent 351 for this year. Can we reduce this budget by a thousand? >> Yeah, I think we'll we'll be okay with

706
03:20:19.200 --> 03:20:34.800
that. We're trying not to print as much um just internally because we share the printer, all of us. Um, so we we just try not to print as much as we can, but when we print the tax bills, it's obviously that that sort of blows out

707
03:20:34.800 --> 03:20:50.319
those cartridges. I make a motion to reduce line item 110 by $1,000. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes.

708
03:20:50.319 --> 03:21:06.160
>> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. So for the next line item, line item 112, maintenance and repairs, can

709
03:21:06.160 --> 03:21:21.920
we actually rename that so that it it is called vault servicing? >> Yeah. >> So that we know what this is next year. >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is um we we contract um with a company and they uh they oil

710
03:21:21.920 --> 03:21:37.920
the vault up and they test the pins and everything because we if you haven't been in there, we have a massive vault door. um that we we do have to get serviced because obviously we keep cash in there and um you know we open and

711
03:21:37.920 --> 03:21:54.319
close it every day. >> Okay. So So the contracted rate for the vault service was $8259. >> Correct. >> And we spent that for the year. >> We we have Yes. >> So um I make a motion to remove the

712
03:21:54.319 --> 03:22:12.960
$6741. >> Okay. Second. >> I have a question. Okay. >> Sure. >> What happens if the vault breaks or it needs to be serviced again? What are you going to do? >> It's if that vault broke, I would I would need capital money. It's that expensive.

713
03:22:12.960 --> 03:22:29.040
I'm not going to pay for it out of operating. It It would be a substantial cost to repair that door. >> Yeah. We'll keep our fingers crossed. >> Yeah. The in in when they do the maintenance, it's it's like a really involved process. I mean, it's horrible.

714
03:22:29.040 --> 03:22:45.600
The the whole room smells for days, but I mean, they're taking like pins out and and and cleaning things and sometimes they are replacing small parts, so it's pretty involved. But I I talked to the guy and I said, "You know what would happen if we had to replace this door?" And he was like, "You don't even want to

715
03:22:45.600 --> 03:23:02.160
know. It's so expensive." So, it would be capital. >> So, we have a motion. We need a second. >> A second. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden.

716
03:23:02.160 --> 03:23:17.920
>> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman uh Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Okay. The motion carries. >> Okay. >> And the next time you're in there, go into the vault. >> I'm going to go look >> the secret staircase. >> Oh yeah.

717
03:23:17.920 --> 03:23:33.600
>> Up to the basement. >> It doesn't go to the basement. >> Yeah, it goes up. I would not recommend going upstairs. No. >> I triple dog there. any one of you >> going to go check it out. I think we can check off this page, right?

718
03:23:33.600 --> 03:23:48.560
>> I think we need a motion to approve 70 as amended. >> I'll make a motion to approve page 70 as >> amended. Consent. >> Consent. >> Consent. >> Thank you. >> Okay.

719
03:23:48.560 --> 03:24:14.880
>> President, we're Oh, we're sorry, Council President. We're going to move to the mayor's um budget. Okay. Let me just go to the page for Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm sorry. The police chief would like to make a special presentation.

720
03:24:14.880 --> 03:24:30.960
>> Absolutely. I apologize. I had left it on the uh bench um and wanted to include it. It's not it's not part of my budget, but it's um one of the first undertakings I took when I took over office in December was to meet with the command staff and have a staffing

721
03:24:30.960 --> 03:24:47.520
analysis done of the complete police department. Um I didn't recommend it for this year's budget because there's a lot in here to absorb. What I did was we compared um two other agencies surrounding that are similar to West Orange, five of them to be exact, uh for

722
03:24:47.520 --> 03:25:04.319
their staffing uh analysis and their staffing of their agencies. So, what I did was I put together a very detailed report for each of you for consideration um going forward. I did not include it with this year's budget because I know the constraints we're under right now.

723
03:25:04.319 --> 03:25:20.560
But I would request, council president, that you distribute it to each of your colleagues, review it. I'll meet with you individually. I'll meet with you as a group if you have any questions about it. But I would seriously recommend the council consider what's in here going forward and in for the future. I

724
03:25:20.560 --> 03:25:36.720
apologize. I left it over there. I wanted to include this before we concluded uh with my budget presentation. >> Okay. Thank you so much. I just want to ask a question. Can you also include the Sabb in getting copies of this because they're helping us with this analysis as well.

725
03:25:36.720 --> 03:25:51.600
>> I'll leave that up to the council president, whoever she wants to distribute it to. I made five copies, one for each of the council >> members. I'll ask the clerk to do that. >> I'll give them to you. >> Yep. >> Thank you for doing that. >> Yeah, you can just leave it on the end

726
03:25:51.600 --> 03:26:16.800
of the desk and we'll push Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you for all your hard work there. >> Councilman Castelina, I'll have it placed in the clerk's office for your availability. >> Thank you. >> Was this keep

727
03:26:16.800 --> 03:26:41.520
>> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you, Chief. Hey, >> hey, council president. Uh, this is the office of the mayor. Um, salary and wages. Obviously, we have the mayor. Um,

728
03:26:41.520 --> 03:26:59.200
and then the mayor has a uh administrative secretary. Um the major driver in the base salary increase is the promotion um effective 1 2026 for the mayor secretary and into a title that was

729
03:26:59.200 --> 03:27:16.080
approved uh via ordinance back in was it beginning of the year or end of 2025? So um any questions? >> Um I do >> Hold on. Councilwoman uh Williams has

730
03:27:16.080 --> 03:27:30.960
her hand up. Thank you. Um overtime for the mayor's budget. >> Um can you tell me why that occurred? >> So the mayor's secretary um is is not

731
03:27:30.960 --> 03:27:50.080
exempt from overtime and uh if the mayor secretary works outside of their schedule, they can be paid overtime. So, >> um, 8 to 5 is the set time.

732
03:27:50.080 --> 03:28:10.000
>> 8:30 to 4:30. >> I Okay, >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yeah. I I think that given given the enormous bump in salary that there has to be there has to be an elimination of

733
03:28:10.000 --> 03:28:26.080
the overtime and maybe she can figure out or this employee can figure out some way to, you know, offset hours if she I if this person needs to work. >> There's no offsetting hours. You can't offset hours. You can't skirt overtime.

734
03:28:26.080 --> 03:28:42.960
I I understand that there's an increase in the salary, but that does not mean they're exempt from overtime. >> It's contractual. >> I I understand, but but can is this the correct number? Because you had two numbers in here. You had uh 2600, you

735
03:28:42.960 --> 03:28:58.399
also had 970. >> Yeah. So, there there's a retro. Um that was because uh the promotion was effective on 111 2026 but I don't think we changed the rate until you know or whatever maybe the fourth pay of the

736
03:28:58.399 --> 03:29:14.319
year. So that that works. I mean listen we do retro for everybody um when when we you know sign a contract and then we have to go back to one one. So that's pretty common. >> Understand what the retro is. How much

737
03:29:14.319 --> 03:29:31.040
overtime has she actually earned? Well, I I don't know if it's a she or a he or a they >> or they. How much have they earned? >> Um through through the eighth pay, the overtime uh is $97021.

738
03:29:31.040 --> 03:29:44.800
Okay. >> The retro um may include a little bit of overtime, but it's probably more likely the base salary. again because if the base salary is supposed to be effective the first pay and then you get your your increase

739
03:29:44.800 --> 03:30:01.439
on the fourth pay, you're you have to make them good through pay number one. >> Okay. I make a motion to reduce the overtime by 4,000. >> I'll second. >> Well, it's only 2600. So, >> what do you mean? You said >> it's the overtime's 2600.

740
03:30:01.439 --> 03:30:17.840
>> Oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Okay. So, the entire the the difference the difference between 960 to zero that out. >> So I'll second >> the difference between 2600 and 972.

741
03:30:17.840 --> 03:30:33.520
>> The only thing is I don't there's there's overtime I'm sure through this most recent pay which will be Friday. So >> can you check to see if there was >> I there probably is. I can't bring it up on the computer here but I'm sure that

742
03:30:33.520 --> 03:30:50.560
there is. I'm sure that there is between payroll eight and and and this payroll. I'm sure that there was overtime. >> So, just so we understand, this is the mayor's secretary. It's the only person works in our office and there are times that the mayor needs this person to work extra hours and it's not always within

743
03:30:50.560 --> 03:31:06.880
it's a 35-hour week employee based on on our current rules and things of that nature. So, you understand that there's going to be times where she may be required. The mayor may say, "I need you to work these hours." and and so it's not everything that the mayor does is within the 8:30 or 4:30 hours because of

744
03:31:06.880 --> 03:31:24.080
PR and things of that nature. So this employee is there. So understanding that, you know, um sometimes the mayor needs that help, that's where the overtime just like any other department, you know, it's just just because it's the mayor's office, we have a person who may have to work extra hours. I have people work in my office extra hours. So

745
03:31:24.080 --> 03:31:40.319
it was just so you know we can look to see how many hours it's going to be working but to say that we're going to completely zero it out and it's May. It's a little you know this is this is a ask me covered position. This is a um this is not a non-exempt person where

746
03:31:40.319 --> 03:31:56.000
they're not eligible for overtime. So um if they work extra hours they got to be compensated. >> Can they get comp time rather? >> They we can give them comp time. Comp time is is a form of pay. I mean we still have to account for comp time at the end of the year. There's a money value to it. We can offer this person comp time in lie of they can they can

747
03:31:56.000 --> 03:32:11.920
accept comp time in lie of if they want to. But you have to understand that because this is a a a not a non-exempt position. This person is technically eligible for overtime. So I don't want to run a foul of labor laws. That's all. >> Councilwoman William.

748
03:32:11.920 --> 03:32:26.720
>> Yeah. I just wanted to say that's why I paused and hesitated when I was looking at the overtime and asking for the hours. Um it it was this year, if I'm not mistaken, that the mayor secretary um orchestrated one of our public

749
03:32:26.720 --> 03:32:43.279
events. If not this year, then there was >> Veterans Day or something last year. Yep. >> Where it was not on a weekday or a day that was a open day, it was it's a closed day. So that's overtime, right? Um, so that's that's

750
03:32:43.279 --> 03:32:59.279
>> and and as an example to follow up, this Monday is Memorial Day and she orchestrates this Monday. So, so she's the one who puts it together for the mayor because this is the part of the mayor's function. So, she has to assist the mayor. So, to say that we're going to arbitrarily cut it out, I think, you know, we can definitely speak to her

751
03:32:59.279 --> 03:33:15.600
about accepting more comp time, but but we can't tell her because this is a labor matter and I can't I can't force her to this person to take uh the overtime. So to zero it out, I I don't think it makes sense. >> We can be we can try to see be more cognizant, but then again, I have to

752
03:33:15.600 --> 03:33:31.439
also speak to the mayor about how she should be running her office. >> So Celina has a question. >> Can we get Ken? >> No, I was just going to make a recommendation. It's already been reduced. I wouldn't go

753
03:33:31.439 --> 03:33:49.760
any lower than 2,000 and and see if comp time is would, you know, would be acceptable. That's all. I mean, this person does all these events. There's street fair coming up. There's a whole host of other responsibilities. Um, so

754
03:33:49.760 --> 03:34:06.720
I'm not worried about them utilizing it. But again, do you want to get into comp time versus what you know you already budgeted for? Thank you. Counciloman. >> Yeah. Could someone explain how comp time works for the public?

755
03:34:06.720 --> 03:34:21.680
>> So, you want to >> Sure. Um, so there there's there's there's comp time and how it's supposed to be used and comp time how it gets used in in municipal government. So, instead of getting time and a half, we would say

756
03:34:21.680 --> 03:34:38.319
we'll give you comp time for it. So, we'll give you the same rate, but if you work 1 hour extra, you'll get 1 and a half hours of comp time. And then what you're supposed to do is use that in the in the next pay period. So, hey, instead

757
03:34:38.319 --> 03:34:54.000
of me being here till 4:30, I'm going to leave at 3:00 and I'm going to use my one and a half hours of comp time. What ends up happening, not just in in in the sort of clerical departments, but like in in public safety, is you run that

758
03:34:54.000 --> 03:35:11.439
comp time and then you bank it for the future because when you get paid out like we had three resolutions on, you're going to get paid out not at the rate you earned it, at the rate you you you leave uh the township, so your current

759
03:35:11.439 --> 03:35:28.560
rate. So comp time can get very expensive. >> Thank you for that clarification and I just wanted to point that out because again while we're looking to pinch pennies um it could really end up costing us more on the back end if we do it that way with comp time. We're

760
03:35:28.560 --> 03:35:44.319
looking at what the salary is now for that position. But if this person stays for five years, 10 years, then that payout um will inre increase substantially. So, I I'm not a big proponent of trying to reduce overtime

761
03:35:44.319 --> 03:35:59.920
um for comp times. It it it can injure the township and our residents on the back end. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> I'm council. Councilwoman RD, >> can you can you make restrictions around the comp time so that you say the comp

762
03:35:59.920 --> 03:36:16.239
time must be used within six months >> or a year? Yeah, I you know I I I I want to say you can I want to say you can require >> bank to be used but >> I I think before we go into having that discussion this is a labor issue.

763
03:36:16.239 --> 03:36:33.359
Thisation I would I would defer to our council because there are components to the fair comp time is the fair labor standard act of 1964. Trust me if you want to fall asleep at night you can't fall asleep read the fair labor standard act manual. It's

764
03:36:33.359 --> 03:36:49.279
it's very it's it's comprehensive and there's different sections for different types of people. So public safety is totally different than the non-uniform. There is an uh there is a section in every part of comp where we can compel a

765
03:36:49.279 --> 03:37:05.520
person to take off. They can also compel us to give them time off. And a lot of times when we're talking about in places like such as government where you have don't have body for body for replacement it becomes a hindrance then too. So sometimes from the operational needs

766
03:37:05.520 --> 03:37:21.359
just to compel somebody to get rid of it could be a hindrance to the office itself. So we have to be careful how we do that. And it this is definitely and with our union contracts and and this person is in covered by union contract. We just can't say we're going to compel

767
03:37:21.359 --> 03:37:37.840
this person to take the time. we really need to evaluate the um the contracts and what we would have to do is discuss that with our labor and if we start doing that then we can wind up either in a grievance or renegotiate opening up a contract or whatever the the the cause

768
03:37:37.840 --> 03:37:53.439
and effect that we may or may not want to happen. So, I I wouldn't make any agreements tonight on what we're going to do with comp time other than to say that we understand that and that and and as the council knows in some of the meetings we've had recently, there is other time that we're looking at and I

769
03:37:53.439 --> 03:38:09.359
will speak to our labor to make sure that we can include that in with the other types of times that we we're trying to address. I think that's a fair way to approach. >> Good idea. >> That's that's that's the more responsible answer. So, strike what I said on the record.

770
03:38:09.359 --> 03:38:25.520
Sounds good to me. >> All right. So, >> so are we on anything else on this page? >> I just Anybody have anything else? Councilman Kovia, did you have >> So, Councilman Ruden had made it had had made a motion earlier to reduce overtime by 2600 minus the 970. Are you

771
03:38:25.520 --> 03:38:44.279
withdrawing that motion at >> second? It's no motion. >> It's not a second, right? A second. >> Okay. >> So, I move for the adoption of page 14. >> Second. >> Good. Thank you.

772
03:38:47.040 --> 03:39:04.800
>> Okay, moving on to page 16. Um, >> I'm good. >> The request is for $1,150. A reduction. Can we consent? >> I I if there are no questions or I consent for these page. >> What has the printing been used? What

773
03:39:04.800 --> 03:39:24.080
What costs have there been? >> None. But that doesn't mean she's not going to have any. >> Right. >> So, the printing last year um was for the municipal ID program.

774
03:39:24.080 --> 03:39:41.279
Um that sort of like runs out of the clerk's office, but the the mayor's office uh did all the printing for the municipal ID. The mayor's office is also looking to update some of their brochures and pamphlets and things of that nature that need to be updated, you

775
03:39:41.279 --> 03:39:56.880
know. So, we need to >> There's there's a need for the $1,000, $1150. It's >> for the adoption of page 16 >> consent. Second >> consent. >> It's that

776
03:39:56.880 --> 03:40:13.200
we we we took a lot away from that uh department last year. So, >> we also added a a heck of a lot to that department. >> That was just a >> well and wait salary but not with >> we doubled it. >> Yeah.

777
03:40:13.200 --> 03:40:30.720
>> Okay. But we also took other things away. So >> I think we're done with this. >> Is that is that it for today? >> Nope. >> Township council >> on the back page of the >> quick two items.

778
03:40:30.720 --> 03:40:46.399
>> I have a quick question. >> Yes. >> Yes. raised my hand. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> When are we doing litigation? That's next after this. I mean, when we do do it >> and you schedule it, can you please update the the uh the the amount we

779
03:40:46.399 --> 03:41:02.880
spent because I know we're spending a lot of money. >> We didn't advertise litigation and as it's been pointed out in the past that nobody wants to speak about something that has been noticed, properly noticed. So I I would say speak about >> No, no, >> that's not on the agenda. >> When we do when we do do it, can you

780
03:41:02.880 --> 03:41:18.800
update these numbers? >> Yes, absolutely. We can we can update. I'm sorry to see real numbers of our spending. That's all. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I maybe it's hard for me to hear you. I apologize. So we we can get >> my my my my uh beautiful voice tonight. Sorry.

781
03:41:18.800 --> 03:41:36.479
>> U my ears don't hear as well as they used to. Council President, this is Township Council. Um you'll see that the difference between last year's budgeted amount and uh the 2026 budget is because we did have um a

782
03:41:36.479 --> 03:41:53.279
gap there where we were down a council person. Um so this is the full aotment of council members at the salary set by ordinance. >> Yeah. Page 18. >> Consent. against that. >> Excuse me. Point of order here.

783
03:41:53.279 --> 03:42:07.840
>> Miss Kazinski, are you if you can hear me? We are currently on page 18. >> Oh, our computer went down. You can interrupt us for that. >> Thank you. >> Okay, let's move consent. >> Is there anything else, Mr.?

784
03:42:07.840 --> 03:42:25.600
>> Yes. So, we do have the township council um operating expenses. Um, do we want to talk about potentially moving some of these things? >> Yes. >> I don't know if this is the venue. >> Yes, >> this is the venue for it, but this is

785
03:42:25.600 --> 03:42:40.399
how we approach it. So, >> if you allow me, council president. So, I I in looking at in looking at this budget, a lot of it is and and I wish

786
03:42:40.399 --> 03:42:57.040
Miss Carnival was here um to speak to it, but a lot of it is really administrative. I want to say it's township clerk administrative expenses, particularly when we look at um cotification

787
03:42:57.040 --> 03:43:12.080
uh the taping taping of the council meetings, but also obviously Mr. >> MC um is is part of this. Um so I think it makes more sense to move those items

788
03:43:12.080 --> 03:43:28.319
to the clerk's budget, clerk's OE budget >> and we don't do dinner also. >> Yeah. And also isn't the clerk also responsible for the business cards, right? Should shouldn't that go to the clerk? We don't order them.

789
03:43:28.319 --> 03:43:43.600
>> Yeah. I'm just trying to think of then what does this budget really become? Um >> we don't have any of these any of these expenses. >> These are not >> these are all the clerks.

790
03:43:43.600 --> 03:43:59.359
>> Well, the clerk for you. >> She he is part of you. That's why these were combined. Basically, >> it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense to have any of this under the council because we actually have no authority over this money. She is >> authority over.

791
03:43:59.359 --> 03:44:14.720
>> She is the one that that uses this budget. We don't use the budget. >> Well, we approve the taping of council meetings >> and the advertising of the council. >> I I I I would say that this is under the purview of the town council because

792
03:44:14.720 --> 03:44:32.239
these expenses are associated with us being council members and functioning. So again, I don't know while the clerk may authorize or initiate these activities, it's still on behalf of the town council. She's not doing it out of

793
03:44:32.239 --> 03:44:49.040
her office just because it's for us. >> This is her job to do codification and she's the one who authorizes it. The codification 100% should be moved to her office. >> The codification stems from the taken here. So that's right. I'm just

794
03:44:49.040 --> 03:45:03.920
explaining. I think that's where it came from. So you change you changed the the code. So then she that's her responsibility to get it up uploaded and everything else. So I think that's I think that's where it came from originally. That's how why it was put in. You're I'm not I'm not here to debate with you. I'm just here I'm just

795
03:45:03.920 --> 03:45:19.600
trying to give you the history of it. So >> yeah, I I mean I I feel like I'm opening a can of worms, but it's just when I'm looking at this again, it's you know, actually without Miss Carnival here, it's it's even tough to explain this

796
03:45:19.600 --> 03:45:35.600
>> table. Sure. >> I'll second the table. >> Second the table. >> Yeah. >> And we also should just ask 20. >> Well, and the table is the attorney weigh. >> Okay, let's vote.

797
03:45:35.600 --> 03:45:51.600
Well, my question was, can the attorney weigh in >> first and second? >> I'm sorry, councilwoman. >> Can the attorneys kicked in? Repeat. I'm >> sorry. Can the attorney weigh in on what he thinks? >> We've made a motion to table and it was

798
03:45:51.600 --> 03:46:07.279
second >> and it was seconded. >> Sure. We've got a motion to table uh page 20. It's been seconded. So, we just need a roll call on that >> or discussion. Is there any further discussion >> on the table? I'm sorry. No, it's

799
03:46:07.279 --> 03:46:22.399
non-debatable and it requires an immediate vote. >> Okay. >> Robert's rules wrote the first Robert's rules of order. >> Oh god. Yeah. Yes. >> If you just call it, please.

800
03:46:22.399 --> 03:46:38.160
>> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries.

801
03:46:38.160 --> 03:46:53.760
>> So, so we can move this along for next time. If you want to send some questions related to this, we can give it to the clerk. We can get her opinion ahead of time instead of debating it up here. >> We could try and get that for the next time because this won't just as we did with the other meetings. This anything that's been tabled, we're going to put

802
03:46:53.760 --> 03:47:09.760
on a f not the next meeting, the one day after. So, >> thank you. Okay, we'll send our questions to the clerk. Thank you. Motion to adjurnn. >> No, we have the commissions. >> Yeah.

803
03:47:09.760 --> 03:47:41.520
>> Um I'll try to get through them quickly. This is the support for commissions page 34. >> Oh, >> Justin had question. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I have a couple questions here. >> Um

804
03:47:41.520 --> 03:47:59.279
>> okay, thank you. Um so this only identifies the boards and commissions that we actually fund. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Um and so obviously through the years this has been um reduced tremendously. Um but for

805
03:47:59.279 --> 03:48:14.800
our main street expense >> OE >> um I I'd like to get clarification on why we are subsidizing uh $26,700. In addition, I we have the main street

806
03:48:14.800 --> 03:48:31.279
contribution. It seems that most of our boards and commissions, most of our departments have taken a tremendous reduction and I'd like to do likewise here. I'm not suggesting that we remove the entire 26,700. Um, but we do need to be equitable about making some reductions in this line

807
03:48:31.279 --> 03:48:47.840
item. So, I'm interested in in hearing recommendations from my colleagues before I council had her hand up. >> Yeah, sure. Thank you, Councilwoman. So, um, so what you don't realize, cuz we didn't do the recreation budget, the

808
03:48:47.840 --> 03:49:06.399
downtown Miss Brill already took out $20,000 that she got in years past from the recck department. So, that was going to that's going to be one of the items being taken out when we get the Rex budget because that was for uh

809
03:49:06.399 --> 03:49:21.120
programming and assistance that was approved by the council a couple years ago to help with Main Street. Since then, she's been doing a tremendous job in securing grants and that's why uh she did not ask for the money because she

810
03:49:21.120 --> 03:49:38.800
had received grants. the money that is in for here now. Couple things. First of all, you had a whole budget presentation that you voted on this money for. She came she uh you know you you were able to ask any question that you wanted and

811
03:49:38.800 --> 03:49:54.080
all of you voted for the budget. So this money reflects the money you approve for her budget. That's number one. Number two, the the dollars in here. we talked when she was there, she talked about the responsibilities

812
03:49:54.080 --> 03:50:09.680
that years ago the way this the um SID is set up is that years ago former mayors etc etc instead of DPW handling a certain uh thing certain um

813
03:50:09.680 --> 03:50:28.479
task on Main Street, it goes through her department. So, that was said something that was set up many years ago uh with the the holiday uh decorations, the garbage cleanup. She bought Big Belly cans. Um she's also been um utilizing

814
03:50:28.479 --> 03:50:45.359
her grant money for the entire township such as restaurant week and the other initiatives that she has during the year. Again, I apologize with my voice and my head is pounding. So, but you know, we all sat through that presentation. And I recommend you go

815
03:50:45.359 --> 03:51:00.800
back and look at the presentation. It's up on her website. Thank you, Council President. I recommend that you don't touch this these line items. You already approve them. >> Of course. >> Thank you for the clarification. >> Yeah. So, to to add just a little bit

816
03:51:00.800 --> 03:51:17.680
more, um the Main Street contribution is related to the loss of of SID revenue when we took over the Prism property. So, you know, we took tens of millions of dollars out of the the SID NVT. So, a past administration replaced it with the

817
03:51:17.680 --> 03:51:33.680
contribution. And then the 267 is to cover the uh the cost of picking up the trash and and and keeping the the downtown clean. >> Yeah. We paid 16,000 for landscaping for the Quickly parking lot.

818
03:51:33.680 --> 03:51:48.319
>> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead. Um, so I I I understand how we've done things in the past, but this is a new budget year and we have to look at everything independently and whether or not we want to revisit and what our

819
03:51:48.319 --> 03:52:04.720
best practices are. Um quite frankly, if we're talking about uh trash on Main Street, um we still have a tremendous amount of residents who live on Main Street that utilize and throw out their

820
03:52:04.720 --> 03:52:19.680
trash. And so there is no distinction between the business trash and the residents trash. We've dealt with that. We've talked about that and we need to somehow address that. In addition to that, when we talk about um plantings, I

821
03:52:19.680 --> 03:52:35.040
know we just cut the DPW budget um for plantings, but at the end of the day, when you drive up and down Main Street, most of the planters are empty. Um so again, we're talking about past practices and things we've done, but

822
03:52:35.040 --> 03:52:53.359
we're not doing them. So again, there's an opportunity for us to do a reduction. >> Okay. and and just to add back if you're done, councilwoman, I'll wait and I can respond on the planters. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. At the last SID me

823
03:52:53.359 --> 03:53:10.640
meeting last week, um all your representatives were there. They have input on the spending. Miss Burl had just completed a lot of the planters. There was some complications uh with some of the planters that came in. They're trying to do do things a

824
03:53:10.640 --> 03:53:28.319
different way this year due to not tying which making it easier for DPW. Um they purchase planters that DPW doesn't have to water as much but they were complicated in um installing. So that was the delay on the planters this year.

825
03:53:28.319 --> 03:53:44.640
Um, but the good news is once they're all done, which they're almost all completed, uh, DPW will have to do less watering uh, with the water truck uh, with these type of planters that downtown uh, uh, secured. And and again,

826
03:53:44.640 --> 03:54:02.000
go back and look at the presentation. I'm all up for doing things differently, but Miss Brill took all the recommendations from this council. All your appointments are on the committee and uh you know I sit at every single meeting and so you know if anybody has

827
03:54:02.000 --> 03:54:16.960
recommendations make them. We always want to do things different. She's more than accommodating. She gave you multiple hours and her staff and the downtown board when you all approved her budget uh for for these dollars that are

828
03:54:16.960 --> 03:54:33.680
on this paper. Thank you. >> Yes. Councilman from Cro. >> One of the principles of budgeting of course is that a particular function or a particular department needs to have all of their income and expenses in one

829
03:54:33.680 --> 03:54:51.760
place because it helps a great deal in thinking through uh what's needed and what may not be needed. And I I just want to flag this about the Downtown West Orange Alliance because I I don't like not having everything in one place.

830
03:54:51.760 --> 03:55:07.920
and and I I have to admit I cannot remember the specifics of uh the Downtown West Orange Alliance budget from uh early this year, but it's very difficult for me to uh think through

831
03:55:07.920 --> 03:55:23.279
when we have different numbers in different places. It's hard to think of them as a whole. So, uh, if if what's being said to tonight is that is that the council has approved

832
03:55:23.279 --> 03:55:38.160
both of these components as part of the budget process. And I'm not sure that that's true, but if that's what's being said, then >> yes. >> Okay. Then that's from my perspective, just from my individual perspective,

833
03:55:38.160 --> 03:55:54.720
it's it's an example of how I think we need to consolidate this stuff so that when we're talking about the Downtown West Orange Alliance, we can we can uh think of this uh holistically. Like there's, you know, there's uh there's

834
03:55:54.720 --> 03:56:10.239
667,000 on this page and uh >> no accounting there. >> Yeah. Um, >> yes, that's what you approved. In the wreck budget, there's 20,000 that's

835
03:56:10.239 --> 03:56:27.920
coming out because she didn't put in for that. It was in there from last year and only because it was supposed to be paid the year before. It never was. It got paid at the end of the year. So, the 20,000 won't be there. But you are

836
03:56:27.920 --> 03:56:44.720
correct. It all all should be on one page. I totally agree with you. After that 20 comes out of the wreck, then the only two items you're going to see this is her budget. And again, you want to, you know, you want to her next budget presentation,

837
03:56:44.720 --> 03:57:01.520
strip away from that. You know, that's that's up to you. But for now, this is what you you already committed to. >> Yes. >> Thank you. Um, so why is the downtown alliance budget pulled out and not done

838
03:57:01.520 --> 03:57:16.239
with the regular budgeting process that every other department >> no clue >> is doing the way again not >> administration answer the question please >> and then I'll get to council

839
03:57:16.239 --> 03:57:32.720
>> by by ordinance the sid has to present uh a separate budget to the council by September >> by September they never did If it's by September, that's fine. But why isn't it still part of this budgeting process? Why do we pull it out

840
03:57:32.720 --> 03:57:48.080
completely? Because again, um, as we're going through all of these departments and making cuts, I think it's fair for us to be able to make recommendations like we are with everything else. And until we see the entire budget, we're

841
03:57:48.080 --> 03:58:03.359
we're peacemealing. >> Councilman Kovak. >> Yeah. I just want to I just want to point this out and I don't want to complain. I know it's late, but when I have the floor, >> I I need to either say I'm giving up the

842
03:58:03.359 --> 03:58:18.399
floor or somebody needs to ask me because what what just happened was I had the floor, I got interrupted and and then it my floor just magically moved somewhere else. And so I would just ask

843
03:58:18.399 --> 03:58:35.680
that if and this goes for all of us when we have the floor we should keep the floor until there's some action that that uh that person gives up the floor because it's it makes it much more difficult to follow uh the discourse and

844
03:58:35.680 --> 03:58:52.160
in in the debate that's okay >> that's what I' uh what I'd like to do and I I think at this point because I cannot remember precisely ly enough what happened in the budget process. I would like to table this page to a

845
03:58:52.160 --> 03:59:11.600
future date so that I have a chance to go through and and and see what was said and what was done uh back I think it was February. So >> that's my motion. Please >> I'll second it. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino.

846
03:59:11.600 --> 03:59:27.680
>> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Thank you, everybody. >> Before we move on to I just want to

847
03:59:27.680 --> 03:59:43.760
point out, I do remember Miss Bril pointing out that the reason that it doesn't get presented in September. It has to do with other monies that come in. I think the timing that may be something we have to look at too. I don't know how that is in or >> the assessment, >> the assessment and and all that. So, so that's why the timing is off and she did

848
03:59:43.760 --> 04:00:00.560
explain that, but I just uh want to make sure that we know that that is part of the conversation as to why it wasn't in September. So, that's all. >> Yeah, it's just that it's the ordinance of that and we we should change it. >> We should probably change the ordinance to have it reflect that make it a little bit more even. That's all.

849
04:00:00.560 --> 04:00:16.239
>> And we could give her the heads up that we want to consolidate this. >> Councilwoman Rude. >> Yes. Um can we go on to page 35? We just >> I know we just tabled that. Tabled it. >> We tabled that. But there's one point that I would like to to bring out in the

850
04:00:16.239 --> 04:00:33.720
commissions. For some reason, the rent leveling board, which is a board similar to the planning board or the zoning board, is in here in in commissions and it's inappropriate. It really needs to be moved into a separate area.

851
04:00:34.720 --> 04:00:50.640
So, um, sorry, I'm trying to find the page that we're going to talk about next, but yeah, I I No, I see I understand what you mean about rent leveling, and I I think it really stemmed from the fact that it's sort of a resurrected board. Am I correct in

852
04:00:50.640 --> 04:01:07.279
that in saying that? >> Yeah, the board itself, for those who haven't heard this before, um, the last time the board was heard until 21 or 22, whatever, was like in 2004. it just was pretty much defunct. Um, and it didn't move. We started moving things forward.

853
04:01:07.279 --> 04:01:24.319
Um, we had a we had one hearing in that one year, that first year, and then we're moving forward right now. We're actually working on some software issues to upgrade the system. And the board has become more active and has convened um, recently this year at least once for

854
04:01:24.319 --> 04:01:39.439
for at least one matter, I should say, not once, but one matter uh, which did require by way an interpreter. we had to pay for um and um there there there's there was one that was pending that got that the application was withdrawn and I

855
04:01:39.439 --> 04:01:54.960
believe there's there may be another one on deck and I'm I'm not 100% sure on that one but it's become more and more active and we've have we now have our own independent council for that particular board. So it is a board that is more than likely going to become more

856
04:01:54.960 --> 04:02:12.160
active as the years as the as the time goes on. So, I I don't it to put some money in there. I I wouldn't be opposed to that. Um I just don't know what the exact amount. >> Yeah. So, and I think it probably deserves it. I'm sorry. >> Councilman, I'm still >> Oh, go ahead.

857
04:02:12.160 --> 04:02:27.199
>> Can I answer? Yeah. Is it okay to answer? >> I I I think you're right. I think it does deserve its own page, >> right? >> With because it the rent living board does have its own flexible chart of account for the state. So, it it can be separated out in the in the budget doc.

858
04:02:27.199 --> 04:02:42.080
>> Correct. and it has it has legal expenses, it has interpreter expenses and all the and and there is a charter for this. So, I just want to how how can we move this forward to get it out of the commissions? >> So,

859
04:02:42.080 --> 04:02:59.840
we would have to propose a new page um and and budgeted amounts for it. So, >> would the legal costs go under under here as they would with planning or zoning? Um, yeah, it can because it's I mean they're getting paid either way. So,

860
04:02:59.840 --> 04:03:15.520
>> and where did the interpreter come from? What budget did that was that pulled from? Just a general fund. >> I think we just pulled >> We took it out of the administration I believe >> from the administration. Yeah. >> This year because that one it was the first time we ever were requested by other than that department. And and

861
04:03:15.520 --> 04:03:31.120
similar to the court, we had to get a certified interpreter. We use some of our staff to interpret during the daytime and that's a benefit but that's not an official practice language line. >> So so we use an official interpreter so we paid for that out of the I think we

862
04:03:31.120 --> 04:03:46.560
had to pay for twice uh for this particular matter >> and um so we we just took it out of the administration last year. So but that you know we we I can agree with you in the sense it should be a separate line item. We can create something with it. uh how we do it and where we go. I think

863
04:03:46.560 --> 04:04:02.000
we have to look at it because the one thing I just want to point out too is that the rent leveling board is generated by uh people who apply for the relief. So we don't know how often. I will tell you in the last 5 years we've only had three applications. So I don't

864
04:04:02.000 --> 04:04:18.319
know how much we actually need but but there was one application that was coming in that we anticipated was going to be quite costly if it if it did come if it did go through. It has been withdrawn. And then the other final issue is that this this board also also needs its own escrow

865
04:04:18.319 --> 04:04:33.840
so that we are not paying for the attorney. >> Again, I think this is one of these things that if you have these comments or you know questions or or you know things that you would like to see included, I think if you can send it to us and we can look to how we could insert this into the budget.

866
04:04:33.840 --> 04:04:49.760
>> Yeah. No, I agree with you on the applications um provided that we have something in the ordinance but and we probably have to defer to our legal team just to make sure we're doing it correctly. That's all. >> Councilman Kovia. >> Thank you, Council President. I I just

867
04:04:49.760 --> 04:05:07.520
would like to understand why on page 34 where we have uh something called support for commissions. So, we have all of these line items. Then we go to the next page and we have what I guess is for the first quarter uh paid and

868
04:05:07.520 --> 04:05:23.600
committed. We have names and line items that were not on the previous page. Yeah. >> So, could >> I'm I'm sorry for my uh ignorance, but why would we have two different things? Like, for example, what the heck is board of appeals?

869
04:05:23.600 --> 04:05:38.960
>> So, so the board of appeals is the construction board of appeal. That's a function of the the uniform construction code. >> Okay. UC. Okay. I understand that. >> So, yeah, I'll explain for the public, too. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. So, so, so the uniform construction code allows if somebody feels that they've been wronged

870
04:05:38.960 --> 04:05:54.640
or errored or whatever by the the by the construction official or one of his representatives, they can appeal to the county board of appeals. We decided years ago to the county board of appeals because we used to have our own construction board of appeals. We were one of the last municipalities in in the county to do that. It just became

871
04:05:54.640 --> 04:06:09.840
beneficial for us to go remove up there. There are costs that are associated with it and that's when we decided to go to >> we we don't have anything charged to any of these. These are just the historical accounts >> and I believe that's paid out of the UCCC funding too, isn't it? >> Yeah,

872
04:06:09.840 --> 04:06:26.160
>> it it comes out of the UCCC funds. It's not really our it doesn't come out of the taxpayers money. >> Okay. And this is something to fund uh an appeal to the county. >> Correct. It's a it's a the board is the the the board is held at the county level, but it's the appeal out it's

873
04:06:26.160 --> 04:06:41.199
appealing an action that occurred within the county. >> Right. Okay. So, that's that's good to know. And then below that uh line item 050, it's public information OE. >> Yeah, we don't have anything charged to that. We don't budget anything for that.

874
04:06:41.199 --> 04:06:55.760
It's a historical account. I I should have just hid them really because we we don't use them. Um >> it's they're just leftovers from probably years ago. So we've got we so

875
04:06:55.760 --> 04:07:12.560
for public information OE 20825 can we close that down and and put >> Yeah. Yeah. There we don't use it. We won't budget it. That's why we didn't put it into the, you know, into the request. >> But if you delete that line item, can we just take the the money that's sitting?

876
04:07:12.560 --> 04:07:27.600
>> There's no money. There's no money there. No, it was the temp budget um >> which automatically puts money into the accounts. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all, Council President. >> Thank you. Um, looking at the boards and

877
04:07:27.600 --> 04:07:44.319
commissions for U 010, Environmental Commission, um, last year we only spent $450. Um, the budget request is $1,100. The budget has remained uh the same and

878
04:07:44.319 --> 04:08:00.720
we've only spent $150. Can we reduce that by half and have that at >> I I I didn't know. I thought we tabled all this. Did we reopen it? >> Yeah, we tabled all this. >> Yeah.

879
04:08:00.720 --> 04:08:16.800
>> Yes. Oh, this >> I'm sorry. Well, we tabled it. Why are we still discussing it? >> What was the question? >> No, we were we were discussing the Sorry. Sorry. Never mind. >> Go ahead. >> I was just going to say we were discuss I was trying to discuss the next page.

880
04:08:16.800 --> 04:08:31.840
in relation to this page uh because they I couldn't connect the dots there. So, >> all right. >> Okay. Now, we're going to do pension and we should be pretty quick with this. Um

881
04:08:31.840 --> 04:08:48.960
the the amounts are set forth by state of New Jersey on April 1st. We're required to make an appropriations payment. Um so it's once a year and that appropriations payment is for

882
04:08:48.960 --> 04:09:04.800
our public employee retirement system PERS and for police and fire retirement system PFRS which covers our police and fire. Uh the way it's calculated is the state takes the second quarter report of

883
04:09:04.800 --> 04:09:20.160
contributions. So every quarter we report what our members are making pensionable pensionable salaries and we remit their employee contributions and also if they have pension loans we

884
04:09:20.160 --> 04:09:37.120
remit their pension loans and in the case of our public employee retirement uh members if they participate in the contributo life insurance program we remit um their contributions for that. So we do that every quarter. Uh 7 and a

885
04:09:37.120 --> 04:09:54.479
half% on public employees, 10% of PFRS pensionable salaries. They take the second quarter report and they annualize it. So if a person was making $25,000 for the quarter pensionable

886
04:09:54.479 --> 04:10:13.120
for pension for the uh employer appropriation purposes, they'll say they're making a h 100,000. Then they have an actuary which has traditionally been AON re uh or AON insurance um

887
04:10:13.120 --> 04:10:28.880
perform an actuarial analysis of the entire fund and then that actuary recommends to the pension a local contribution. So in in the case of PERS, I think it was

888
04:10:28.880 --> 04:10:43.920
16.75%. Is that what I said? >> Um, >> yes. 16.75% for PERS. I mean, sorry, 16.36% for >> 16.36%. And and that actuarial calculation is

889
04:10:43.920 --> 04:11:01.920
based on the future liability of the pension. So what are they going to pay out based on the mortality tables? How long are the people going to live and get paid out for and and how the fund because all the pension money

890
04:11:01.920 --> 04:11:19.439
is invested. How is the fund doing in the market? So we had a slight decrease in the contribution required by the state that that percentage went down. And if I did a

891
04:11:19.439 --> 04:11:37.880
comparison versus 2023, I would think our pensionable salaries probably went down a little bit as well. So that's why you're seeing the reduction in in the public employee retirement system. So that the full bill is 1,314,752.54.

892
04:11:40.560 --> 04:11:56.399
So, I round up a little bit for the public uh for police and fire the 7,487,000. It's the same calculation except the percentage was >> it's a much higher percentage. It's 36.75%.

893
04:11:56.399 --> 04:12:13.040
>> 36.75%. So, if you're if you're making $100,000, we're kicking in $34,000 a year for your pension. the employer >> 36,000 3650 testing me.

894
04:12:13.040 --> 04:12:28.640
>> Yeah. $36,750. >> See if I'm awake >> if you have a $100,000 pensionable salary. That's that's that's that's really what all this means. Um so that's the pension bill. It is what

895
04:12:28.640 --> 04:12:46.640
it is. We don't have any option at this point to defer it, to not pay it like the state used to do. Um, you know, now the state is committed to fully funding the pension, but during, I guess, the Christine Whitman days, they didn't.

896
04:12:46.640 --> 04:13:05.680
Um, so you really have no option here. It is what it is. >> Let's consent. >> Yeah. I mean, >> consent. And and I'll tell you like I pay it on the last possible day so that I avoid interest and you know because

897
04:13:05.680 --> 04:13:22.960
it's $8 million. Like it's it's a lot of money to spend. So I wait until the end of the month to wire the money over to try to get as much interest out of the month. Um so I'm doing my best >> to mitigate it. Um, I mean, they even

898
04:13:22.960 --> 04:13:39.640
called me and said, "You got to wire it or we're going to charge you 10%." So, I do what I can when it comes to that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Uh, the next >> joint sewer >> next is joint meeting

899
04:13:42.239 --> 04:14:03.600
our sewer authority. >> Yes. Sewer authority. >> Two. Oh, thank you. Okay. So, what what makes up um the the ask um is the quarterly

900
04:14:03.600 --> 04:14:20.640
assessment for the joint meeting? So the joint meeting is a sewer treatment facility made up of member municipalities that all connect into that facility so that your your sewage is cleaned and released back into into

901
04:14:20.640 --> 04:14:36.720
the water as as clean clean water I guess. Um so they don't take care of our infrastructure. Um oh did I not I did print it out. They don't take care of our sewer

902
04:14:36.720 --> 04:14:54.239
infrastructure within the township. That is our responsibility. But they process all of the waste and they they have a quarterly assessment for the operations and then they'll also do capital projects where they assess all the member municipalities for the the their

903
04:14:54.239 --> 04:15:09.439
share of the capital projects. That's why we have all that open debt, authorized debt for joint meeting because they did a massive um flood mitigation project that again, and I've

904
04:15:09.439 --> 04:15:26.399
brought it up many times, the goal is to get it paid for by FEMA, 90 cents on the dollar, and then we would be responsible for the 10 cents, all of the member municipalities. So get getting back to joint meeting and and and why do I ask for the 4,31,000

905
04:15:26.399 --> 04:15:42.880
is that we pay $964,000 a quarter for our assessment and then we have we also have sewer use charges for West Essex Highlands. Um >> what? >> Yeah. Yeah. So we we we pay Township of

906
04:15:42.880 --> 04:16:01.120
Verona for West Essex Highlands for for sewer. So those two numbers together work out to be, you know, close to the 4,31,000. I think I have like $1,000 left over. >> Council member William,

907
04:16:01.120 --> 04:16:20.560
>> thank you. Um for 2025, we um were over the amount 16778 and 26. What was the cause? >> It's the Verona charges. Yeah. >> So we didn't budget for that. >> Correct. So, I had to move money into into the

908
04:16:20.560 --> 04:16:36.080
sewer use. >> Okay. Thank you. >> No, I didn't create new appropriations. I took from other accounts. >> That's it. Um, and then for uh 2026, is this encumbered or is this already

909
04:16:36.080 --> 04:16:52.080
paid through 331? >> The the assessment for joint meeting is encumbered and then as we get the Verona charges, we we pay them. So, >> and is there a cap on those Corona charges? How do we know what they're going to be? >> It's like 40 something thou 42,000 a

910
04:16:52.080 --> 04:17:14.680
quarter. >> So, there's there's really no space in in joint meeting. >> I'll second. >> Wait a second. Wait a second. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Did you have Oh, I'm sorry.

911
04:17:19.120 --> 04:17:36.399
So, the CBAB would like to know um I'm sorry, Mr. Diniac, if you said it, I didn't write it down quick enough. The assessment for the joint meeting. >> Yes. 964,925 per quarter. And then that's um

912
04:17:36.399 --> 04:17:53.359
divided equally amongst what's the number of households or or how do you divide that? We the township >> we don't we just get a bill from from joint meeting. Um they just say you're part of joint meeting. Here's your

913
04:17:53.359 --> 04:18:09.520
assessment based on I'm guessing they have flow rate >> best on flow. Yeah. >> So there's different numbers for each. I see. >> So, do you have a sense though of the number of households in West Orange? >> Well, everybody's connected to sewer, I

914
04:18:09.520 --> 04:18:27.040
believe. So, um but I I don't know. >> You don't know that number? >> No. >> Would you be able to get that? >> Um maybe the engineer would be able to tell us who how many are connected to the store >> in West Orange. The number of households, >> the number of households or connected

915
04:18:27.040 --> 04:18:44.000
>> what's connected to the joint meeting. So I don't know if it's commercial and residential. >> Everybody's connected to join meeting. Yeah. >> Everybody is assessed charges for that or just households. >> Oh, do you mean like the on the revenue side of things the sewer charge?

916
04:18:44.000 --> 04:19:01.040
>> Well, like is the sewer is the sewer charge by household or is it by just whoever's connected? >> No, it's it's just based on the flow that comes from West Orange overall. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. They They're not breaking it out for for us.

917
04:19:01.040 --> 04:19:17.359
>> Yeah. >> Got it. Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Thanks. >> Consent. Consent. >> Consent. >> Okay. The the final um section for

918
04:19:17.359 --> 04:19:39.120
tonight is is garbage collection 170. Right. So I asked director Fonino to come on too because he oversees the garbage and recycling. Okay. Um Councilman just for point of order council council president. So we we provided you some

919
04:19:39.120 --> 04:19:54.239
answers this afternoon. The the date actually is not June 1st. It should be I believe September 1st for the contract the garbage. It was a mis it was misspoken because we I don't know if you you I don't think you were on the council at the time. Um but we we had

920
04:19:54.239 --> 04:20:09.920
some issues with awarding the contract of getting it finalized and um so our our current carrier was the previous carrier from the contract and they we were able to work out a deal with them that they carried it over until we were able to figure out the how much we were

921
04:20:09.920 --> 04:20:24.960
going to you know what the award was going to be. So so it wasn't June uh May 30 June 1st to uh of 24 it was actually I believe September 1st. So, but I have director Fontino on on the on the porn here. He can he can actually fill us in

922
04:20:24.960 --> 04:20:40.800
on a lot of other patients. So, director, you're you're on on queue right now. >> Yes. Hi, good evening. Can you hear me? >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. As Pete said, there there was some unforeseen delays um uh getting

923
04:20:40.800 --> 04:20:56.000
the the contract commence. So, it was supposed to start on June 1st, 2024. Um, however, it it actually ended up starting on September 1st, 2024. So, uh, it will terminate on August 30th,

924
04:20:56.000 --> 04:21:12.520
2027. And then we have two additional one-year uh, periods, optional, uh, renewal periods. So, um, the latest that it can terminate would be August 30th of 2029.

925
04:21:22.800 --> 04:21:38.800
Yes, Councilman. >> Okay. Just just so everybody's aware, uh, Mr. Dutiniac sent me answers to a lot of the questions, but I didn't get any on the on the on the garbage section. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we I did send it back to you. I thought you were copied on. I sent it out around I'm

926
04:21:38.800 --> 04:21:54.159
sorry. It was like around 3:30 I got to you. You may want to check your email. >> Okay. Um, let me see. >> Do you want a table? >> This is a quite This is actually quite >> easy, Council President. So, we could just knock it off. >> Well, it's up to Councilman Kakovier.

927
04:21:54.159 --> 04:22:10.239
>> If I could just give a real quick um overview of of garbage. Uh, >> makes sense. But like the collection. So, so we contract out with Suburban and and there's a cost for for picking up

928
04:22:10.239 --> 04:22:26.560
all the trash and that's set at $297,000 a month. Now, then they have to take the trash and drop it off and then we pay the tipping fees. So that typically runs like,

929
04:22:26.560 --> 04:22:44.479
you know, anywhere from 90 to $115 $120,000 a month because we're paying for for the, you know, the amount of of garbage that they're dropping off. So we're we're paying for them to pick it up. That's set 297,000 a month and then

930
04:22:44.479 --> 04:23:01.680
the tipping fees are are what are somewhat variable. Director Fonino, do you want to add to that? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, John, I think um you said it well. Um the there's a flat fee for the collection costs that that's for garbage and recycling collection and

931
04:23:01.680 --> 04:23:19.760
then uh the tipping fee uh is based on the weight that's you know that's disposed of each month and we're we're invoiced monthly for both. Um I think the councilman had a question that the money is is is encumbered. Um and then

932
04:23:19.760 --> 04:23:36.640
we pay down that that yes um monthly. >> Yes. >> With uh invoices from suburban. >> So when it comes to the collection fee, the QPA will will incumber based on um the monthly collection fee and then does

933
04:23:36.640 --> 04:23:53.040
sort of a a ballpark of the disposal fee. Um because again, we don't know exactly how much it's going to be every month. We have a an idea. It's not going to vary too much because people are not going to stop throwing things out, but

934
04:23:53.040 --> 04:24:10.000
they may throw out more in certain months. Um so yes, the the the QPA does encumber uh the full year. >> Real quick, I'm sorry. Councilman, did you get your It was sent to you at 320.

935
04:24:10.000 --> 04:24:25.279
Yes, I did get it. I did. I apologize. >> Okay. So, I just want to make sure you saw the answer. >> Okay. To move forward with it. >> Answered all the all the questions. I just have one more question, which would be how are things going operationally on both the garbage and the recycling side.

936
04:24:25.279 --> 04:24:40.239
>> Uh, you know, is is there anything going on? I know for years and years we have talked about trying to reduce this any way we can and I just wondered if the if we're seeing any signs in the market

937
04:24:40.239 --> 04:24:57.199
that uh pricing is uh uh is the constant increases are lessening on both the garbage and the uh recycling side just to get an idea of of where it is because if if the environment is favorable uh we might

938
04:24:57.199 --> 04:25:13.199
even think about uh bidding this out, you know, in time for the end of the actual contract. So I just >> So to add to your the way it was described to me, it was one of I when I first came into part of this role, this was one of the first things I worked on

939
04:25:13.199 --> 04:25:28.399
and this took us probably about a year to work on. We we're going back and forth the state controllers's office. We would send down drafts through our consultant. They would tell us to change something. We change it. We'd send it back. Another another person at the office would look at say, "No, change it back to what we had." It was really it

940
04:25:28.399 --> 04:25:43.439
was it was kind of crazy. But the one thing that we did find out is that we were lucky enough and this is how it was described to me. We hit a sweet spot with garbage. It's you know so I don't know how much of a sweet spot it is but we were able to keep our prices down

941
04:25:43.439 --> 04:26:00.159
compared to other municipalities because it was during COVID and other times when fuel and a lot of of um the commodities were were raising and including the tipping fees and stuff like that. So, for some, we went to a five-year contract, 31 and one, and we we took those options. We just happened to hit

942
04:26:00.159 --> 04:26:17.520
it right at that time. We we did a a this latest contract. Um we went through four options. We presented the council with four different options. The option that was chosen was option four, which was remained the same schedule, even though it cost an increase. The first option one was going to be a reduction

943
04:26:17.520 --> 04:26:35.120
of I forget $300 a household or something like that per year. some it was it wasn't a tremendous amount of money but it was a savings but the council at the time opted for two days a week bulk pickup and everything uh that that we currently have now and what was in the in the previous contract. So, you

944
04:26:35.120 --> 04:26:52.560
know, but we still were able to save significant amount of money at that time. Um and and it has options for us to to explore as we get closer to the end. I will say um in speaking with our consultant, we will probably have to start thinking about it um in the fall

945
04:26:52.560 --> 04:27:08.159
about a new contract because we have less than a year. So, so we can bring to the council the options of whether we want to uh actually go out to bid and try and get a better price or remain with the one-year options. We we don't want to wait till next summer. Yeah, based on the experience of what we had

946
04:27:08.159 --> 04:27:23.279
from the last time, I would say we need to start working on this no later than start on it in September for the following year because we we we're on the clock. We're under 365 days and and it that's something that we'll have to bring to you and work for >> Absolutely. And I want to say that I did

947
04:27:23.279 --> 04:27:39.439
a garbage survey and I have the are the residents really want to maintain the level of garbage service we have. >> Well, we we heard it loud and clear. Everybody sure know that. I just want to make, you know, that's why I want to preface it here because the last time we

948
04:27:39.439 --> 04:27:55.680
we explored bringing in carts and one day a week and and it was there were some significant savings to potentially have, right? >> But the voice was loud and clear to keep it the same. >> Great. >> And that was not the administration presented four options. The council was the one who voted,

949
04:27:55.680 --> 04:28:11.439
>> right? And we heard from a lot of residents. >> So, I just want to make sure that we understand that. So, >> okay. >> The challenge I'm sorry. >> Oh, go ahead. The challenge >> the the the challenge is is getting multiple bids. Um and it was pointed out by Were there individuals from the the

950
04:28:11.439 --> 04:28:27.359
state that came and spoke with us? >> We actually had a meeting with the state controllers's office um probably about 3 months ago >> regarding garbage and they came in because they actually liked what we did. They said that we they they wanted

951
04:28:27.359 --> 04:28:43.040
because they were looking at a lot of other communities that only had single source biders. We wound up with I think it was either three or four. One we had to just Yeah. four. One was rejected. >> So we so we wound up and they they were actually they liked what we did. They

952
04:28:43.040 --> 04:28:58.159
they actually said and we we sent them all the information. They're using it as almost model. So, so that's that's the the tough part about it is that there's a lot of consolidation and you've had the the big international haulers getting into the business and buying up

953
04:28:58.159 --> 04:29:13.199
the little guys and and but now the >> the profit margins aren't there for the big ones so they're not bidding on it. So now there's an opportunity for the little guys to come back. So hopefully that's what happens when we go out that we'll have competition.

954
04:29:13.199 --> 04:29:30.159
>> Okay. Um but but that's the challenge is is that uh you know you don't have the small haulers anymore, >> right? Okay. I know Councilwoman um Williams has a question and Castelino has her hand up. Good. >> Thank you. Um just wanted to u remind the administration, I know it's not

955
04:29:30.159 --> 04:29:45.439
really important today, but when we do go back and look at garbage, um the biggest thing for mitigating our rodent infestation problem is the containers. So, we really need to look at the container system. Um, maybe perhaps one

956
04:29:45.439 --> 04:30:03.040
of the flaws was concerns with the size of the containers from the residents and maybe if we can have more options in that regard so that people can choose what size container and a little bit more flexibility. Um, but we do really need to revisit that ahead of time so we

957
04:30:03.040 --> 04:30:19.760
can get multiple options and accommodate the needs of the residents because that was the push back and not really going forward with the um the the pale system. But the benefit of again just the rodent it it's a no-brainer.

958
04:30:19.760 --> 04:30:35.920
>> It was it just so we're clear on this, it was a recommendation of the administration to to move forward with the containers last time. Um there was challenges with the cart sizes and we recognized that and so um there was a 90 I think it's 90 or 95 gallon cart don't quote me on that and then there's but we

959
04:30:35.920 --> 04:30:52.000
realized there's other ones and we were going to work on an option of anybody wanted less a smaller size we could have worked with that but I don't think no matter what we did at that particular point in time that that challenge was going to be overridden and we we did that based on the rodent concern

960
04:30:52.000 --> 04:31:06.720
especially in certain sections of the town that have had complaints and we've heard it at the at the you the at the microphone. So, um that was that was one of our that was our recommendation. So, >> and then the other thing is I think just looking at how garbage is done in other

961
04:31:06.720 --> 04:31:22.239
municipalities much more often in I guess the shore areas, but they all utilize um garbage trucks that are not manned. They have the arm system um and we need to look at that and then we'll have probably more bids because that's

962
04:31:22.239 --> 04:31:38.720
the transition of the industry. That was that was the idea with the with the with the bins is the one armed bandit, so to speak, they called it. And we we looked at that. That's why the cost was going to be significantly cheaper because the challenge we would have had in some

963
04:31:38.720 --> 04:31:55.120
sections of town, it was easier. They could just pick it up from the side and over the top. The challenge was that in certain sections of town where it's tighter, they were actually going to have to have a rear mounted system. And it would have cost there was some cost to it, but but the the you know, the vendors were were willing to do that. and they bid. You know, that's why the

964
04:31:55.120 --> 04:32:11.439
one was a fatal flaw because they didn't bid on me something. But yeah, >> so we had that those are so we did answer them, but we we will definitely put that out again. >> Thank you, >> Councilwoman Castleina has their hand up and then I'll get you uh Councilman Kakovia. That was not a popular idea, by the way. >> No, I I understand.

965
04:32:11.439 --> 04:32:28.080
>> Thank you, Council. Thank you, Council President. Um so, yeah. um with with the carts the the the smaller I remember the some streets would have to have it in the back so you would need at least one person to roll the cart to the back

966
04:32:28.080 --> 04:32:43.760
which I think people would like and the different sizes so thank you council woman for mentioning that um but we we didn't get the option last time which was disappointing in the four options about going to bulk once a month because

967
04:32:43.760 --> 04:33:00.080
when we talked to a lot of residents. A lot of residents were >> if that saved a a great deal of money. >> They were good with that option. >> So, I think that has to be um priced in. I'm not saying we have to do that, but I think this time you have to price that

968
04:33:00.080 --> 04:33:15.520
in. Um and and again, just if you could give us a heads up when you're going to do it. I have other notes I took last time, so I just, you know, so we got a little time to share our notes with you. So, we're just not surprised. Thank you, >> Mr. Smile. Kobak

969
04:33:15.520 --> 04:33:32.719
>> actually I think Council Mon have you ever looked into how much it would cost the town for a composting program so that we could offset the tipping fees? >> I director I I can't answer I I would I don't know that answer. Director we have Have we ever done that?

970
04:33:32.719 --> 04:33:50.080
>> I I haven't looked into it but it would cost more from from my understanding from our consultant it would probably cost more than our solid waste contract. I I recall that being a discussion. I was the liaison when we were reviewing the contract and we did ask him to um

971
04:33:50.080 --> 04:34:05.840
look into a composting program townwide and the expense was far out. When he looked at it, it would take about five years um for it to pay for itself. >> It's not a great ROI. Go ahead.

972
04:34:05.840 --> 04:34:22.480
I thought the uh this may have been when I was not on the council, but I thought the administration was talking about doing a pilot program to improve the technology. >> We did we looked into it and it we make presentations and it didn't move

973
04:34:22.480 --> 04:34:38.000
forward. >> So So we're not doing >> we're not doing it now. We could I mean if you if you want to entertain that we can bring that to you. Um we we have the research on it. We could probably we would have to talk to our vendor now and you know our current vendor because they were will wanted to be a willing

974
04:34:38.000 --> 04:34:54.639
participant. We were looking at an area that would have worked out for us would have been about approximately 500 homes. We would have gave the residents the the carts to do that because the council wanted data and we wanted to do that. We made a presentation but we never got approval to move forward. So if that's

975
04:34:54.639 --> 04:35:09.199
something you're interested in, we can se certainly resurrect that and and make that presentation to you. >> What was the approximate cost on that? I remember it being fairly close. >> Director, you remember what the cost was >> for the pilot program? >> Yeah. >> I It was gonna, you know, it was going

976
04:35:09.199 --> 04:35:25.920
to cost us the um I think it was just the cost of the carts that the contractor wasn't going to charge any more money, >> right? >> They were even uh willing to install the lift >> at no, you know, they were going to eat that cost. I think the the only other thing we were going to uh share the cost

977
04:35:25.920 --> 04:35:43.439
was on the um the RFID readers for the cans, >> right? The RFIDs weren't that expensive. They were under $1,500 or something because the can because what the other thing we wanted to do also was put an RFID chip on every can so that when we went down the street and we said, "Okay, we went to one and three didn't put out

978
04:35:43.439 --> 04:35:59.760
and five did." We get a lot of calls and they say, "Oh, you didn't pick up my garbage." No, we were there. You just didn't have if you didn't have an RFID reader out there, you'd get picked up. We know that, you know, you missed. Sorry. Unfortunately, you missed it. So the other thing was the option just so you know too when we spoke to our vendor

979
04:35:59.760 --> 04:36:16.719
was that we would have paid for the cards and had the program failed they would have bought them back from us. So it really was a a net zero um cost to us at the time but it just it it just didn't gain traction. So, we could

980
04:36:16.719 --> 04:36:31.920
certainly, you know, uh we can look into it again if if that's the the, you know, the uh choice of the council and if that's what you want to do and something we could talk about offline instead of, you know, here tonight, but we can make that we can make that presentation to you.

981
04:36:31.920 --> 04:36:53.199
>> Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Council. Go ahead. >> Um, Mr. Mr. Dutiniac, how much have we spent to date on tipping fees? So actually spent was 311,000. Uh 3 311511.49.

982
04:36:53.199 --> 04:37:12.000
So 311,000. >> So if you take that out, aren't we way over in terms of the estimate? >> No, that's only paying three months. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But even so, are we going to hit hit that number?

983
04:37:12.000 --> 04:37:28.561
>> Again, I every month is different. So, >> I believe it's based on volume and we don't know what volume is. So, we don't we can't predict what the volume is, >> right? But the last year, I mean, that seems like that would be in line with last year's um paid to charge, which was

984
04:37:28.561 --> 04:37:46.719
one 1266 1.2, two and this year you're asking for 1.5, but it looks like we can reduce that. >> I wouldn't recommend it. >> Why would we overbudget $300,000?

985
04:37:46.719 --> 04:38:01.680
>> Why underbudget? >> Because maybe we can do some education to help people. >> People are not going to change what they throw out >> to compost a little bit more. >> Yeah, that's not going to happen. That's >> a Java piece.

986
04:38:01.680 --> 04:38:20.320
>> I I see what you mean, but I I honestly I don't want to get caught short with with the garbage. >> I know, but that you're you're giving yourself a lot of leeway right there. >> Is there a motion that you want to make? Figuring out my numbers. >> Okay, great.

987
04:38:20.320 --> 04:38:47.719
Yeah, I'd like I'd like to reduce this by 100,000 and and that's being very conservative because really the difference is 267,000. I make a motion to reduce this by 100,000. >> Is there a second?

988
04:38:49.199 --> 04:39:04.160
Okay, >> I'll I'll second just so we can continue the discussion and maybe this is not the appropriate time because Mr. Ziniac looks like he's really thinking about this and maybe needs a little time. >> No, you can vote on it. Yeah. >> No, no, no. I don't want to vote on it.

989
04:39:04.160 --> 04:39:19.600
I just want to continue the discussion, but once the once the motion's made, you either fish or cut bait. So, >> okay. It's $267,000 more than last year. So, I'm just trying to get it closer to par, but I'm still giving a lot of leeway.

990
04:39:19.600 --> 04:39:44.160
So, cutting $100,000 seems doable. >> Have my hand up. >> Do you I'm sorry. >> Yes. Go ahead. Do you get reports on tipping fees in terms of weekly or monthly so that you can >> it's sort of track the

991
04:39:44.160 --> 04:39:59.120
>> No, I don't I don't see maybe director funds would see them weekly. We just see it as part of the invoice the the monthly invoice. >> The the the dump tickets we're giving the dump tickets uh every month. >> Mike gets the dump tickets. He's saying

992
04:39:59.120 --> 04:40:15.200
>> Councilwoman Castelino has her hand up. >> So before before we move on before we move on, Mr. Fanzu, could you take a look at those uh tickets and just see what the what the trends been so far perhaps this year? Maybe last year. Is that something easy you can do? Are they are they digital?

993
04:40:15.200 --> 04:40:31.680
>> They're paper. >> And is it a weekly thing, monthly thing? >> Monthly. >> Oh, well that's not too bad, >> is it? Could you take a look at that? >> I mean, it would take some analysis. I' I'd have to, you know, I could look at it with Mr. Diniac and and see how we

994
04:40:31.680 --> 04:40:48.000
could analyze it. I >> I'll give up the floor, but I I think we should take a look at this and and see if it's uh within reason. I know uh Mr. Ziniac is pretty prudent and conservative on on these type of things.

995
04:40:48.000 --> 04:41:03.600
So perhaps a little bit more data might be able to inform uh a recommendation. >> Mr. Tin, what is your thought right now? >> I'm not going to be honest. >> I'm not going to talk myself into You made a motion. You seconded it,

996
04:41:03.600 --> 04:41:17.920
right? That was council. >> So my my question is with recycling because aren't the tipping fees for the garbage tied into how well we're doing with recycling because there's less garbage. So how how

997
04:41:17.920 --> 04:41:34.958
we've been doing with the recycling? I guess Mr. Fonino could answer that. Yeah, we don't get reports on the recycling council woman because that becomes the the the contractor owns that product when they pick it up. So they

998
04:41:34.958 --> 04:41:51.840
they pay to to have it recycled. We're only paying for the collection. But to your point, the more people are recycling, yes, it lowers our tonnage. >> Yeah. >> Tonnage. >> I thought Mr. Cle back way back when

999
04:41:51.840 --> 04:42:07.760
used to get numbers on that. We used to get comparisons on the on the recycling. >> No, we we we get numbers. Yes, we we we get numbers on on recycling tonnage, but I the um I'm sorry. Yes, we we do we we do have >> I guess the question is has that

1000
04:42:07.760 --> 04:42:22.878
increased? What's the trend? Is it more and more people recycling? >> It's been, you know, since I've been looking at it, it's it's been >> about the same. >> Yeah. I I I think I prefer if you could just both of you dig deep into this a

1001
04:42:22.878 --> 04:42:39.120
little bit cuz if there's even $50,000 you feel comfortable with lowering this, it's $50,000 and I think that's a significant number worth the time. So I appreciate that as well. Thank you. Thank you, Council President.

1002
04:42:39.120 --> 04:42:55.440
>> So we have a motion to table this. >> Let's not Yeah. I I you know what? I'll say I we'll we'll handle it. If if if later in the year it comes back and the tipping fees are way too much, I'll come back to you and say we got to do

1003
04:42:55.440 --> 04:43:11.360
something different. If you want to take it out, take a 100k out and and we'll figure it out. >> Good. Okay. >> So, >> remember I I just want to go over this again that I that the difference is 267,000.

1004
04:43:11.360 --> 04:43:29.520
So taking 100 out is not is very conservative. Um okay. So my motion is still on the floor. Did I have I think I had a second. >> Yeah, I had a second. >> Okay. >> Call a vote. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino.

1005
04:43:29.520 --> 04:43:44.798
>> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. The motion carries. Thank you. Okay. So, are we gonna Is that it? It

1006
04:43:44.798 --> 04:44:00.400
says >> motion to Williams. >> Just one second. One second. I'd like to understand resident reimbursements. Is that in the in the communities that we What is that for? Resident reimbursements.

1007
04:44:00.400 --> 04:44:17.520
>> So, director, you want to handle that or do you want me to take it? >> Sure. But we have we have one um apartment building that gets reimbursement >> and that seems like a ve can can we know more details about that? >> And why why is one

1008
04:44:17.520 --> 04:44:33.520
>> do we not pick up garbage from that apartment? >> We do not. Right. >> Why not? >> To my understanding um this has been been a place that has had private collection for quite some time. Um it's

1009
04:44:33.520 --> 04:44:50.240
it's an um a very awkward um place to pick up. The dumpster's kind of behind the building and it needs to be rolled out to a side street that has on on street parking.

1010
04:44:50.240 --> 04:45:05.040
Um that's that was my understanding. It it was kind of cumbersome for the township to pick up. And have they ever produced bills on how much they are actually paying to get their own garbage carded off?

1011
04:45:05.040 --> 04:45:22.000
>> Yeah. Anytime we have uh reimbursement, whether it's um for electricity or garbage or street lighting, they do have to provide or snow plowing, they have to provide um what they pay for that

1012
04:45:22.000 --> 04:45:37.958
particular service. council how much this is costing cuz that's that's a lot of money for garbage collection from one building. >> Mike, this is >> this is 300 306 Main Street, right? >> Correct.

1013
04:45:38.958 --> 04:45:55.840
>> But $12,000 is not a lot. If you look at what some of the other towns that charge for garbage, um that's not a lot for a a large property. >> Yeah. So we we do get the bills from them. >> How many how many units are in this building?

1014
04:45:55.840 --> 04:46:10.878
>> I I don't know off top of my head. >> There's quite a few. It's a multi >> quite a Yeah. >> But they they send us the bill for every month before we would even pay them. So >> there's probably I I would estimate more than 12 and maybe closer to 20. I don't

1015
04:46:10.878 --> 04:46:27.360
know the exact number because it's too it's a it's a combo building and you actually have to come down to side street. The garbage receptacles are down in this deep trench that would we will probably get charged about that as well from the market.

1016
04:46:27.360 --> 04:46:44.878
>> Their their 2025 request is for $11,550. I'll tell you that. >> Okay. But do they have a super that can bring the garbage out to the streets so that our >> I think it's it's a much bigger >> it's a big it's it's not it's not it's not 35gallon garbage cans. This is

1017
04:46:44.878 --> 04:47:02.638
>> we can give you the bills. Um, you can always come back to this. We can supply you the bills for 2025. We just we just received them pretty recently from from this the company that manages the property. >> Okay. And and is this uh gar for 155

1018
04:47:02.638 --> 04:47:19.280
garbage trash rolloff containers? Is that >> where where where are they? >> For township operational needs. We put them up at the recycling center, the DPW. So when we have a lot of garbage, bulk garbage to save stuff, save cost for ourselves, that's a cost for us to

1019
04:47:19.280 --> 04:47:37.000
get rid of our our uh trash and garbage. >> And we pay that to Suburban directly. Yeah. >> And how much have we paid this year? >> Um we encumbered 4,000 for the year. >> How much have we paid? >> Um 650 so far, but

1020
04:47:37.680 --> 04:47:54.480
but it's 4,000 a year. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Does CBAP have anything on garbage? CBA? No. Okay. Does >> that complete everything for today, Mr. Duteniac? >> It does. >> So, the only thing we need to do real quick, a housekeeping item. We have

1021
04:47:54.480 --> 04:48:11.280
meeting five, which is Wednesday, starts at 4:00. It's been advertised and I don't have the list in front of me right here. Um, we do have meeting six. The agenda is set with that with the exception of a date. We need a date and Mr. Diniaak was advising me that he's

1022
04:48:11.280 --> 04:48:26.480
probably going to need a seventh meeting. >> I think we were saying we were going to start meeting five immediately upon the conclusion of of the Wednesday meeting, right? We were just going to start at 10:01 p.m. and go to like

1023
04:48:26.480 --> 04:48:43.200
>> 5:00 a.m. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think so. To get finished with >> No, no, we we said that we need to You needed a seventh meeting. >> Yeah. Yeah, we we definitely need it. >> So, we need we need two dates. >> So, one is set, one is not. The seventh

1024
04:48:43.200 --> 04:48:58.798
meeting is going to be so he can go over the man of everything, the revenue, everything else, and whatever is the leftovers from other meetings like what we couldn't finish tonight, things like that. So, >> we should we we anticipate that we should be done within seven meetings. So, we're looking for your assistance.

1025
04:48:58.798 --> 04:49:13.760
>> I say I say we're going to need like three or four more. >> I'm going to bet I'll bet you one prison dollar bill. Three. >> A few nights. >> Three or four more. I >> What about the Tuesday after Memorial Day? >> No, we got a council meeting. >> That's a council meeting because I

1026
04:49:13.760 --> 04:49:30.560
>> No, it's Wednesday. It's I thought the meeting's Wednesday. >> No, changed it. >> No, I haven't. >> Well, we haven't confirmed that yet because we still have to get legal if they're available. So, we we're working on that. Um I've never spoke to Mr. >> being advertised right now. It hasn't been changed yet because we I have to

1027
04:49:30.560 --> 04:49:46.080
confirm with legal that we have coverage for legal. So, >> what what date? The 20th is >> no 20th. This t this Wednesday is our next one. >> Okay. >> Currently, the next council meeting is next Wednesday. Um I know that was sent

1028
04:49:46.080 --> 04:50:02.798
out, but we're waiting to hear from legal if we have legal counsel. Mr. Carlson's going to >> I'm sure Mark will be in touch tomorrow. >> Yeah. Well, we'll have an answer by tomorrow about the the council meeting. >> We're going to move it to the 26th. >> Well, if we have legal counsel, >> right? So, we need it's not confirmed

1029
04:50:02.798 --> 04:50:18.878
yet. So, we're looking to move it to the 26th. So, um I know we the first and second is elections. The uh madam clerk said that we she's available the 3rd, June 3rd, if that's available for everybody. >> I have a planning I have a planning board meeting.

1030
04:50:18.878 --> 04:50:36.400
>> Planning board is on the third. >> Mhm. And I cannot do the fourth. >> We know that the fourth is out. We know that already. The eighth is out. We asked that already. So we have the 9th is a council meeting. We have the 10th 11th c I know council

1031
04:50:36.400 --> 04:50:52.798
>> councilwoman Castelino's away the following week. >> So >> what what about the 11th is is >> September 11th. I'm not going to be available September 11th. >> I'm sorry. June 11th. I'm sorry. Yeah. Sep I hope it's not showing September

1032
04:50:52.798 --> 04:51:06.718
11th. Oh >> June 11th. Um, I don't think Councilwoman Castelino is available that day. Um, but >> I'm not I'm not not Did we Monday the ETH? >> We asked about Monday the 8th last time and then I was told no,

1033
04:51:06.718 --> 04:51:25.440
>> I can't do it. >> So, I know Councilwoman Castle doesn't come back till the 23rd. We have a meeting on the 24th, it looks like. So, >> that's my birthday. >> Um, >> happy birthday. So, we got we're looking at the end of June if we can't do any of these days

1034
04:51:25.440 --> 04:51:42.718
here. So, >> this is crazy. >> I think we need to do a Saturday. >> Yeah, we might just >> I can't do a Saturday. >> I think we I think we need to do a Saturday. >> Then we'll do a Sunday. >> We do a Sunday >> like the seventh and just get try to get

1035
04:51:42.718 --> 04:51:59.120
it over with >> and then you know that might be nice because there's more people in the public. >> I can't do it on the seventh. >> Mr. Moraldo, if you if you can I guess you noticed already. I mean, I'd like to be present for the recreation department's budget.

1036
04:51:59.120 --> 04:52:15.520
>> Recreation is this is is this Wednesday. >> Is this Wednesday? All right. Then then don't worry about me for the rest of it. >> So, if that's okay with the council woman, uh the week of the 15th and the 19th, if you have we're off on the 19th,

1037
04:52:15.520 --> 04:52:29.840
so the 15th, 16, 17. And I wouldn't recommend the 18th since we're off the next day. Staff will be off. So we have 15, 16, 17. You have those. Anybody have those days available? >> I could be available. 16 and 17 is better. But I >> Oh, you don't count.

1038
04:52:29.840 --> 04:52:49.120
>> I could do. Are you available? >> Oh, we do it at the pool. >> The pool party >> all day. An all day event. >> Yeah. >> Celebration that we got it done on time. here in the volleyball around beach ball

1039
04:52:49.120 --> 04:53:04.878
around >> throwing around a lot of >> the week of the 15th >> 15 16 17 we have any dates available here >> I'll be aware that week but I'm sure someone from our office can cover >> okay >> I would hope >> I can make myself available 16 and 17 is better than 15 but I could do

1040
04:53:04.878 --> 04:53:20.718
>> so we could do 161 17 >> not I rather not have two days in a row >> so 15 17 so we could try and get this done would that work >> 15th I have gymnastics banquet. So, no. >> All right. So, we're going with the 17th or the 16th. What's your preference?

1041
04:53:20.718 --> 04:53:36.878
16th or 17th? >> I'm okay with either one. >> 16th would be better. >> Okay. Let's do the 16th. >> 16th. So, we'll do that as meeting 6 to 16th. And then we're going to have to figure out Let's just get six under our belt. So, then we'll >> Maybe we can do a little longer one

1042
04:53:36.878 --> 04:53:56.400
>> if you would like. I could do from 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. >> That date. That's on the 15th 16th 16th >> 16th Tuesday >> 4:00 >> 4:00 >> and we can go from there. I pretty much

1043
04:53:56.400 --> 04:54:11.920
have that schedule already lined up. >> Okay. >> So it would really be leftovers of of every meeting and whatever Mr. Dataniac has to at that point. >> Then 17 is my last day of school. So >> we were just told we don't need two days

1044
04:54:11.920 --> 04:54:27.360
in a row. So, we'll have to figure out maybe the following week, >> the 18th. Is the 18th open? >> The 18th, the night before holiday for the we're closed the next day and a lot of our staff is going to be gone. So, I mean, it's, you know, it's a three-day weekend. So, >> um,

1045
04:54:27.360 --> 04:54:42.958
>> and I'm available any time of the day after that. >> Um, >> so we could do a full day if everybody else is. >> Well, >> I know Councilwoman Castelino, >> as we get closer, as we get closer, I would think if we're going to uh do one

1046
04:54:42.958 --> 04:54:58.560
without C councilwoman Castle. We should probably do the recap when she's back. So maybe sometime after the the 24th is a council meeting. So maybe >> either the 25th or the 29th 30th, something like that. >> I could be real flexible any of those states. >> Okay. So I think in fairness to

1047
04:54:58.560 --> 04:55:13.200
counseloman Castle, she missed a couple last year. So if we she's going to miss one, I think we should be able to let her hear the the final wrap-up. >> Okay. >> I'm confident he's going to get it done meeting seven. >> Okay. We're going to shoot for it, right? >> All right. So, we're we're agreed on the

1048
04:55:13.200 --> 04:55:32.480
16th right now, correct? Okay. >> All right. >> June 16th. >> June 16th. I will have it noticed. Thank you. >> Yeah. I make a motion. >> Thank you. >> So, move. >> Night everybody. >> Feel better.

1049
04:55:32.480 --> 04:55:41.680
>> Feel better. Thank you, director. I'm committed to the vote.