Good afternoon, West Orange and West Welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for Monday, July 27th. Um, and just as a quick reminder before we begin, the next council meeting is Tuesday, August 4th
at 6:30 p.m. here in Council Chambers. At this time, I'd like to turn the floor over to council president. >> Thank you. Hello everyone and welcome to our ninth budget meeting and I hope our last. Um, madam clerk,
this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the township of west orange website on July 23rd 2026.
Councilwoman Castelino Councilman Koviaak >> present virtually. >> Councilwoman Ruden >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Council President Scarfa >> present. Lein, please rise for the flag
salute. I >> aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The council is now in their
budget meeting. >> Okay, great. So, uh, we're going to start with public comment. Edie, did you want to start us off? >> Uh, yeah. No, little different. >> Edy Bear, 14 Dogwood Drive, West Orange.
Hi, everybody. >> Hi, Edie. >> Good. Um, I have a combination of comments from the SABAB as well as my own since I don't get here very often. Somewhat disparit, but I wanted to get them on the record. I see that later tonight the 2026 salary budget for the
police department will be adjusted for those who will not be serving a full year. That's good news. The CBA wants to ensure that the compensation for those who have retired during 2026 has also been prrated in the budget. I
know we discussed it a few times over the last few months. I know some of those salaries have been adjusted, but I'm not sure they all have. I think the intention was for all of them to be. So, I just wanted to remind us some of those who have Oh, this is
sorry. While I'm not naive enough to think that anyone would introduce new fees in an election year, the SBA would like to reiterate the importance of generating additional miscellaneous revenues, whether they reflect maximization of revenue potential for
town assets like Rock Spring, introduction of fees for existing services like the Jity, new services like power generation and electric car charging stations. or um fee adjustments for services that
we provide like the swimming pool. Those fees have not changed in nine years. We're hoping that whoever wins the mayoral election will be positioned to hit the ground running on these initiatives so that we can benefit from
them in 2027 and not lose another year of revenue to offset our property taxes. I have a a bunch of items that are some are new, some are old. I'll just get them on the record. I'd like to ask again what the status of awarding the
forensic audit is. We haven't talked about it for a while, but did the council ever get a report detailing financial fixes related to the auditor's notes in the 2023 audit? And while we're at it, what's the
status of the township's 2024 audit? Last, can you let us know what the 1.35 million open space acquisition grant awarded May 2026 will be used for? Thank you,
>> Madam Council President. I'll just note for the record that Councilman Castalina has joined us at 510. >> Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else like to make public comment? Just >> Good afternoon, Justin Goldsman, West
Orange. Um, just a few quick items since I think this is, as council president said, hopefully our last budget meeting. Um, on page 93, um, there's two part-time seasonal crossing guards that have benefits
outlined in the in the salary ordinance, while the other 42 do not have benefits. I'm not advocating to touch benefits without further information. I'm just wondering if we can speak to the two outliers there and how much those additional benefits may cost. Um, on
page 143, um, the budget requested $2,000 for portable toilets. According to the budget, we've already spent $2,000 as of March 31st. Last year, we only spent, according to the budget, $615 for this
item. If we project that spending out, assuming it's a quarterly expense, that would be $8,000 for this year as opposed to the $615 spent in the previous year. um did we do more construction work that's requiring these additional um
rental uh portaotties or is was there just one large item that's taking up a lot of these costs? On page 154 for the omnibus operators, there's a decrease of $25,000 for overtime pay from last year. As I like
to say, I call balls and strikes as I see them. So, I'm wondering if someone can speak to the savings here or at least the net decrease in overtime spending and if we can replicate that model elsewhere across our budget. What did we do well in this instance that we can learn and apply to other areas or
was it due to the fact that in 2025 there was a new hire and that simply shifted the workload um which would basically be a wash in here. But if it is an actual finding of savings, I think we should look to replicate that. Um, on the topic of the omnibus operations, is
it possible to leverage these vehicles during other hours when they're not necessarily in use? Can we leverage the omnibus with the Jity or potentially find savings there? Can we use the Jity and Omnibus when there are big townwide events that require transportation and parking such as the street fair or St.
Patrick's Day when we bust people across town from their parking um locations um we have idle vehicles during times and rather than rent out costs I'm just wondering if it might be more cost beneficial to utilize our vehicles instead of rent greyhound charter buses
um on page 155 um I really do first off on the just agenda in and of itself it was really helpful to have each page as we would be discussing it was really helpful so kudos to everyone who put that together and the transparency
there. Um, on page 155, I do appreciate the table that shows how many employees actually took the healthcare waiver. I know at the previous council me uh I don't remember if it was a council meeting or a budget discussion, we were talking about the pros and cons of the healthcare waiverss. So, I think it's
just informative that may add some light to that previous conversation. Um, and I'm wondering if the ratio according to that table was there were 18 employees, only two took the healthcare waiver, which would suggest the other 16 utilized their healthcare benefits. So,
just wondering if that is consistent or relatively applicable for our other departments because I think that would speak well to informing us as we perhaps have that conversation again about healthcare waiverss. Right? So, we had two employees opt for the waiver and the other 16 said we would like to utilize our benefit. So that was just a good
indicator um as we have those discussions. Page 158 just for my own educational purposes and perhaps the public. What is the animal control trust fund? How is it funded? Um 162 again calling balls and
strikes. Can we speak to how we saved almost $45,000 in the senior health department wages? Maybe it's a simple answer. Just curious. And then on page 168, in 2025 there was a request for $100 for the SR Club contracts. In 2026,
that request is $1,000. Just wondering if we can speak to the extra 900. Um, also on page 168, it shows bus rental fees were $3,75 in 2025 with this year asking for $3,200. Not that's the same number, but
can our Jity or Omnibus not serve as a bus? Is this an opportunity for shared services either with our omnibus and jity or with the board of ed as our buses sit idally? Um perhaps not. But just seeing if our if our omnibus may use maybe us as an offset for the for
the bus rental fees line item 70 again just as miscellaneous. I think we should be more detailed there. And you know, I just want to thank everyone at our last budget meeting for our department heads, our CFO, business administrator, clerk, council members, and CB um for all their time and effort, every dollar that we find, every question that's answered.
Every new innovative way to problem solve makes a beneficial impact on our taxpayers. It's a good exercise of democracy, transparency, and problem solving. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Anybody else like to make public comment? Good afternoon everybody.
Um I'd like to make a comment about the >> Can you just please state your name? >> Lawrence Cohen uh 20 Lincoln. >> Thank you. Thank you to make a comment about the general tenor and tone of the last couple of meetings
where uh Joyce Ruden was trying to go take a scalpel and a very fine look at each budget item and was was ridiculed by count by council members and some administration people and it bothered me
very much. There was a mention of the Defino uh uh uh it was a contract for cleaning uh uh a dog park that has no trees uh cleaning it of leaves and blowing the leaves. And it seemed like a
a very legitimate criticism and uh she was she was ridiculed and actually her her um her basis for the for the budget uh item being uh pointed out and and criticized as being overspending. She
her her motivation was questioned as if she was going after the the contractor personally an on hanaman attack on Joyce uh for her just trying to cut the budget. Also
often times some council members have said that Joyce was cutting the budget too much last year and their reasoning is that there's a state law in Trenton that said the budget was cut too much. So some of the budget had to some of the
cuts had to be kicked back and and erased. Now I looked for other states if they have done this type of thing. I think New Jersey is is exclusive and having some sort of a conflict of interest rule from a state government saying a town council can't cut too
much. I think the problem is with the state having this rule saying that the town council can't cut too much. I think New Jersey is one of the highest or the highest state property tax um uh has one of the highest state property taxes in
the USA, all of the United States. I think New Jersey is number one. So perhaps Trenton is creating part of this problem by not letting town councils cut budgets and and try to uh uh cut back on this um this escalating property tax
nightmare that New Jersey is facing. uh neighbors that I've spoken to about the latest quarterly uh tax estimate that they've come to are people that are on a fixed income are actually in shock. I want all the town council people to
realize this that your fellow residents are in shock now. So this may be the last meeting or the second to last, but please uh take a take a serious look at cutting uh each and every item on the budget you can because the taxpayers uh
cannot take this burden. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else? >> No. Okay. Seeing none, we'll close public comment. I'd like to >> All in favor? I >> I
>> Okay. Uh would you like Who would like to get started? >> I'll go last. >> You want to go first? >> No. >> No. Okay. Joyce. >> Um >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yeah. I I want to thank Edie for your comments. Um I I would also like to make
sure that we are removing compensation for those employees that have already retired and make sure that our budget is is aligned with those cuts. Um, I don't know. I' I'd I'd like to know, can we can we now discuss fees for the Jity or
is it too It's a really I I've spoken to many many people who take the Jitney and almost to a to a person they're open to a small cost being carried by the writers of the Jity. Is that something that we can enact this year?
>> Well, we'll let them answer at the end. Just do your public comment and then I I'll have some supposed to be doing the budget. Yes. Yeah. So, um, all those additional sources of of getting revenue, all great ideas and we should be doing that. Um, and I also
have the same questions in regard to the forensic audit. What's going on? And, and also would like to know where the 1.34 grant open space. I believe that was to rock to to OPAC, but not 100%.
Um, and Justin, I wrote down all of your comments and I will ask them at at the appropriate time. And Larry, um, thank you for your comments and for noticing. It's it's rough here. Um, I'm just trying to do the work of of, um,
reducing the burden on the taxpayers. Thank you for Thank you for coming out and saying that. >> Are you finished? >> Yes. >> Okay. Councilwoman, >> thank you, Council President. Thank you all for coming out this evening and sharing your comments and questions to
the CABAB. Thank you so much um for even bringing up items from the 2023 audit. Um again takes a village and each of us working collectively um to support our residents, businesses and um be very
very cautious with taxpayer dollars and what we were all seated here to do. So, thank you very much, Justin. As always, appreciate uh your diligence in looking through our budget. Much appreciated.
And as far as disappointment in um comments made regarding some of the information as was mentioned, you know, a lot of times the public does not see all of the information um or the exchanges between
us as elected officials and the administration. And unfortunately that tends to uh in some situations make it appear that information may not even be available to us. Um but that's quite the contrary. Um while there is um and has
been statements made about the administration and the um council working together collectively whether or not information is shared. Quite frankly, this administration goes above and beyond um in my opinion um getting
information to us as elected officials. It may not always come um as quickly. It may not even be something that's um in in some instances put before the public or on our shared drive. Um but most of the decisions that we are making are
informed decisions. And so I want to be very clear um so that we can continue to work together for the remainder of this year and not continue to place blame um amongst ourselves or even amongst the the administration um when it's not necessary and especially when it's not
accurate information. Um, so again, uh, unfortunate that that you don't see some of the things that happen behind the scenes, but as elected officials, you know, we do our best to make educated decisions, informed decisions. They may not always be the decisions that um,
some of us would like to have. The information may not be the information we were seeking. Um, but but we do do our best um, to to do what is the people's work. Um, so I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you, Counc.
Okay. How about uh Councilman Koviaak? >> Uh thank you, Council President. Uh I would just like to say uh just to put things into context that Councilwoman Ruden talks about the dog park bills just about every meeting and we spend a
great deal of time each time on a relatively small amount of money. And the council operates as a group. That means the five member council, for you to get something done, you need at least three votes. And I believe it's true
that we all share Councilwoman Ruden's uh statement a few minutes ago uh her desire to serve taxpayers. I think all of us do that and I think there's plenty of evidence to uh demonstrate that. But we sometimes disagree with her on the
best way forward and that's just the way a fivep person council operates. And after we turn down her attempts on the dog park, meeting after meeting, she continues to bring them up. And it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that
we do not go along with her. We haven't gone along with her in quite a while, but she keeps bringing it up. So, that's certainly her uh prerogative, but I just want to explain how the council works and and why this uh continues to happen.
Thank you. Okay, thank you. >> Excuse me one second, Councilman Kovak. Although we can hear you um and your audio is being recorded on Zoom, perhaps next time you speak, you can get a little bit closer to your microphone just for some additional clarity. Thank
you and I pardon the interrupt. >> Thank you for that, Councilwoman Castle. >> Yeah, thank you, Councilwoman. Um I apologize to Edie because I walked in on your comments and nice to see you. Haven't seen you in a while. Um and I hopefully we'll go through all your questions and answers be before the
evening and uh you know Justin always great with a lot of questions um as well that we'll get to and you know which I'm glad to see that we're doing as we get to that uh topic um which some of them were answered in
prior meetings um because we went over a lot of this material unfortunately on some of the pages we didn't consent on this budget in regards ards to Mr. Cohen's comments. Um, Mr. Cohen, you you left as soon as you spoke, which always
disappoints me. Um, however, you know, we we're frustrated. So, if we sound a little snippy at times, I know I have. I apologize to my colleague. I know she's trying to do a great job. We all are up here. But, it's it's July
27th. I had to change plans today. We shouldn't even be here today. this this budget hearing. We should have been done with the budget the last meeting. We just dragged this out to a point where it's just not necessary. Yes, we're trying to save the tax dollars uh
taxpayers dollars. Um and there's only so much so much we should be doing now. Uh Jitney, which is great, but again, that's something that needs to not be done in tonight's meeting. It's a separate meeting. And yes, we've been talking about it for
years. we should get to it, but we don't approve capital improvements for the technology. Had we proved the capital improvement last year for technology for the new service, it would have been done already. So, these are why things get delayed. You know, it's an election
year. I get it. Um, but we can't keep dragging things out. Last year, we I thought we were doing the right thing by trying to take that surgical knife and removing everything. And again, I was shocked that the state came back and
slapped us on the hand and said, "You took too much money out of the budget." So, it's all about balance. We have to run the township. It's not a a perfect in each line item, and it gets very frustrating. I know I frustrated the CFO in a few meetings um because we start
playing let's make a deal and I I don't appreciate our council for doing that to our administration. So, we got to get this done tonight. So, I'm going to stop talking, but thank you, Council President, for letting me get my frustration out that this is taking way too long.
>> Thank you. And I'm going to quote you, Councilwoman Castelino, that it is political silly season and the political grandstanding is really starting to uh pipe up. I've gotten some phone calls, too, that have been shocking to me. And
I was shocked when I found our council meeting last month on social media with critiques of the council's behavior. This is inappropriate. I I everyone should be here trying to support one another, working
collaboratively, and coming here and defining the problems and coming up with solutions. I'm a business person. That's what I do. This political nonsense to me is really sickening, I have to say. Let's all start to define problems and
come up with solutions. Okay. Um I also just want to uh mention that in terms of the fund balance and the surplus last year we did cut a lot and I could see that our CFO was very concerned. He didn't say it but I could see he was concerned probably about the surplus and
the fund balance and I have a feeling that that's why the state the state may have come in and done what they have done. But I'm going to let him explain that in just a moment. Um, also we have to understand it's wonderful that we're all cutting every last scent we can, but
we can't do it to the point where we make the directors uncomfortable where they can't do their job and they don't feel like they're going to have enough money in their budget to actually operate. And we I think we have to be more respectful of that. Um, we have to ask more questions of them directly
before we start coming here and trying to chop their budgets apart. Um, and we have to realize that it's the structural drivers of our budget that are the problem and those things are things like
the Jity. I think a lot of us agree that we need to generate some um in some money from the Jity and I asked actually Mr. Smeraldo about that today and he uh reminded me that he is working on something that will be affordable. We
are all working in that effort. I was going to put a group together, but it became completely politicized that I just said I'll work on it directly with the administration and I dropped it like a hot potato. So, I just want to say that the political
grandstanding is not helpful. So, let's try to all be on our best behavior and work collaboratively. Um, Rock Spring is another thing that I was actually going to bring up. Our contract is up very soon. We need to be um understand what the administration is
thinking about and we need to get some RFPs out there or whatever we're going to do because it's another uh real concern. I love the ideas that CBA has come up with with the charging stations. I'm sure we can probably work in that direction. And as I had mentioned to
you, Mr. Smaldo, I was going to ask Mr. Diniac today about Crescent. I know Councilman Graoviac had had an idea about giving a few more dollars to each of the residents from the open space fund. I want to pay down this debt. I think the debt is the problem and if we
could put some money towards that and pay down some of the I I really think that would be a better idea. But you are the CFO so I'm going to let you answer the questions. >> Go ahead. You want to start with the uh >> So I I'll start with Cresmon. Um so what
we are able to do for this budget year is to allocate the ban interest from the November ban uh bond anticipation note that um we have a principal amount of 4,76,000
owed for Cresmon. We can defer not defer allocate the interest to the open space fund. So that's approximately like 154,000 and then there's a principal payment too that we have to make as as part of the the legal installment. Um so
we can take that out of out of the open space fund. I inquired about taking money out of open space to reimburse us for the past three years of of ban interest. That's not going to be allowed. um state does not want us to
set a precedent where municipalities go back and say well let's allocate this to open space and bring it in for past expenses. So we're able to take the 2026 ban interest again that's that November um issuance. Now, as far as paying more
of it down this year, we can do that, but there is no budgetary impact in 2026 because we are paying for the interest that's due whatever the date is in November that I have to pay back that note. So if we pay down a big chunk of
it, let's say we take a million dollars out of open space and when I roll the note, I roll it for a million dollars less, that's going to be interest paid in 2027. So a material impact in 2027, but a a hefty payown this year does not
impact our budget. Not to say it's not a fiscally responsible thing to do, but we just wouldn't have that budgetary impact by paying down a large portion of the debt. But we are still looking at it from the perspective of, you know, what are we earning in in terms of interest
on open space money versus the the future coupon rate of that note. So, >> okay. I think Councilman Kobia had a question. >> Yes. Thank you, uh, Council President. >> A little louder, Councilman. We're having a little trouble hearing you. I
can assure you I am practically screaming and I I'll I'll see if we can figure out a better way to do this and I'm sorry. I apologize, Mr. Dick. I just I apologize for interrupting you. I just wanted to make sure I heard the numbers uh correctly. You you talked about the
interest payment this year and uh I you mentioned I think $154,000 and then you immediately follow that with the principal payment. And I just wanted to uh try to make sure I understood is what you are saying is that if the council wants to move ahead that we could uh
save uh taxpayers $154,000 in the interest payment this year, but that the principal payment is going to be uh recorded in 2027 and is not going to impact. So there's a there's a small legal installment payment that we we
encumbered in I mean appropriated in the 2026 budget um simply because you can only stay in notes for so many years before you have to start making small principal payments. It's the legal installment payment and that payment I don't know it's like six or $7,000.
So we would save on that by allocating that to open space because that's currently in the current fund budget. Um, >> that's it. >> But like a a major down payment so that we reduce interest for next year is
going to impact the 2027 interest expense. >> Okay. So just just to follow up you the mention of the $154,000 that is the interest payment that that we are making this year on the bands and
this is the amount that of of money that we could uh have an impact on returning to uh property owners because the money would be taken from the open space trust
fund and not from the general fund. Am I correct on that? Okay, >> that's correct. >> So, you're talking about $154,000, which in the greater scheme of things isn't a huge amount, but it certainly is uh is a helpful amount. The $154,000
plus, you were mentioning $6 or $7,000 more in the principal payment. That would be $160,000. Do I understand that correctly? That that that's what we're talking about here. Uh the positive impact to property owners in 2026.
>> That's correct. It's not only is it, you know, a decent savings, but it's it's the appropriate thing to do being that, you know, when I look back that uh project when the ordinance was was passed by the council back in I don't
even know what year it was few years ago, the funding source was always going to be open space trust fund pursuant to the ordinance. So, it's the appropriate thing to do to charge the interest to the fund. >> Yes. I I totally agree. I just I'm I'm
just not clear why the why uh it's such a clear uh mislication of the terms of the bond ordinance that I'm just surprised the state doesn't even want to uh fix what is a you know a totally
inappropriate application of this going back to I guess the first payment would have been made in 2022. So anyway, I apologize to uh for interrupting you. I just wanted to clarify that. I'll I'll let you go. Thank you, Councilwoman Ky. >> So, I I just want to make a recommendation. Thank you for the
information. And what what would be really helpful is and I I I understand, Councilwoman, you want to react to the some of the questions that were asked, but if we could just start going page by page and when we get to the revenue and
and the bonds and all that information, because now we're we're getting peacemealed with different information. I think it's more >> Well, we we'll answer Justin's questions. Yeah. When we get to them. I just do want to talk about Rock Spring in the >> And I But but can we
>> Yeah, that that's under revenue. That's under revenue. And And we're bouncing around. And this is why to, you know, we we ask the same questions 50 million times because we keep bouncing around. if we stick to the pages. I've done this
is like my 20th uh municipal budget or board of ed budget and I've never operated this way. It it drives me insane. If we would just stick to the pages and then when we get to revenue, we could talk about all the revenue we want, which that is all revenue and
paying back uh down the debt. We talk about the debt in that section. >> This this is a an appropriation. So, it's reducing the debt service appropriation. It's not revenue, it's just debt service, right? and these questions. >> We don't even have that on. >> Yeah, >> I know. But we're going by questions for
public comment and we're skipping out of order as opposed to us getting what we need out of these meetings and getting the budget done. So again, this is another reason why this budget isn't done because we skip all over the place and we don't focus and get it done. I
really appreciate if we could start moving and and focusing. >> Let's just go with the rock spring and the Jney question. I those are long conversations that I know I need to have about Rockspring and it should be in the appropriate >> part of the Mr. Let's just give you a quick synopsis.
First of all, the Jity we we're going to go to the Jitney page. I can answer all those questions. We >> wait on the Jitney, >> but as far as the Rock Spring, our contract is up. We are in >> at the end of the year. >> So, I have had conversations with um um
Mr. Samero and we're we're in contract. We're we're we're discussing the Rock Springs. So, we have nothing to report right now. We understand it's out there. We have met with various different stakeholders and the mayor and our administration are legal and we are working on on a >> Are we putting an RFQ out because well
managed now the restaurant I wanted to have lunch counciloman >> there's no lunch crowd >> I'd have lunch on Tuesday. So, I'm not going to I'll wait till you guys are done answering. >> Go ahead. >> So, as I could state, we're working on
Rockring. As to what you feel about the restaurant, I'm not going to make any comments about that. All I'm just telling you is that the contract up December 31st. The administration along with our legal team is looking into it and we're looking to develop an RFQ. >> We will when when we're ready, we will. >> Okay. So,
>> go ahead. >> They had a contract with options to renew. >> So, are the options expiring as well? >> Yes. >> So, this was the five-year contract for >> not. Correct.
>> Yep. >> Okay. I would just ask that you keep the um council in the loop rather than put something in front of us the month, you know, when we get that it has to >> when we get something that's more tangible, we'll we'll present it to you. So, we have those discussions, right? >> Go ahead.
>> I just want to make a note about Rockring. I was at a barbecue on Saturday of of residents that frequent Rock Spring and they're very very impressed and happy with the state of the golf course that the improvements that they've been making and it they're
saying it looks great and the grill room. So, I get that we knew we have the restaurant was something we needed to work on. That's why we're putting it out to bid. We know that, you know, but as far as the golf setting, the grow room for the golfers, all that, they do a
fabulous job. It's just that other piece we know we have to work on. So to make statements like that is isn't appropriate. Public um and both and all of the on the flooring has been updated. The brand new
fresh paint job. Um the facility looks great. So to say that I don't know what the situation was when you may or may not have gone, but I was there um this past week on a Tuesday as well. Um and it's it's very impressive the improvements that have been done. >> Yeah, I'm taking Tai Chi there. It's
wonderful, but we do need to get that restaurant generate some revenue >> there as well. The food is >> want to see it open and >> No, no, to your point, Councilwoman, you're you're correct. However, you know, again, this this is something we we that's a separate night and a full
night conversation, a workshop meeting. >> Okay, great. So, Mr. Tiniac, I'll let you take it away. >> Okay. So, for everyone at home, um I'm on the front page of of the township website. I can go to the news and updates,
click into here. We have tonight's Zoom meeting available. Um, we can get to the agenda center from here with tonight's agenda, which I'll bring up right here. So, we're going to start with page 52,
Central Telephone. I'm going to go to the document and scroll down. This was one of our non-consent pages. Oops. Okay, Central Telephone. I'm I'm not quite sure
what the hold up on this one was, but um there's consent. >> I had a consent online. >> Yeah, I had >> I have >> So, just just council president, just for your edifica or benefit, um so the Mrs. Carnival went painstakingly through
every single meeting, every single minute. And this is what she's come up with as what was not addressed and and to to her knowledge if this is on here. While you may have had a consent on it, she didn't have it recorded as such. So that's the only reason why. So if you
have no other questions and you want to consent on, that's that's up to the, you know, privilege, you know, council. >> Anything else on this or can we consent? >> Was this consented on? Is that what you're saying? >> No. According to this carnival, this was not content. That's why that's on this page is on there.
>> Okay. So, >> I have I have it in my records with >> consent. Yeah. >> Let's just move to consent and it can Can I ask a question about telephone service on >> Go ahead, Councilwoman. You have a
question. Go ahead. >> What is the pay to charge for telephone service? was answering. >> So, as of as of today, it's about uh 57,177.14. >> 57,100
>> 177.14. >> Okay. And we're more than halfway through the year. This is posted through June. >> Okay. So that's six months. Is there a reason why the recommended budget is 172?
Even if we use the second half of this, we can still see a huge savings here. >> Um we kept the budget request the same as last year. So we'd like to keep it. >> I understand. But last year the the payor charge was 135
>> and you your request was 172. So again, why would we be authorizing that much over budget if we're halfway through the year and you're you're only seeing 577? >> Are are you making improvements?
>> I >> I'm not saying anything. I'd like to keep it the way it is. >> Okay. So, I'd like to recommend a cut because even if we use the exact same amount through the rest of the year, that equals 114 and there could be a huge savings from
172 and as a matter of fact, the bill is coming down. >> I'm trying to I'm trying to understand this. >> He wants to hold the Councilwoman, make the recommendation. Get a second to your motion. And let's
continue. >> Point of order. I have the floor, not you. Um, I would like to make a motion to reduce this budget to >> I I I can't do that yet. I got to ask a question. >> Well, let her make
>> Wait, she's got the floor. Let her let her do what she's going to do and then we'll get here >> 2114354. That's that's double and you will save the difference. That's a savings of
>> savings of $58,000. I made a motion to reduce it to 114,354 keeping saying it's double the amount of what has been spent for 6 months. The the bill is going down. It's not going up. This is for
telephone service. I >> and we last year we spent 135. >> I respect that, but I need other questions answered before on the floor. So, >> is there a second? >> Not yet. I can't give her a second. I get my other questions answered.
>> Second answer questions. >> Let it die and then do >> a motion. Second discussion then discussion. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> All right. Motion dies and then we have another >> have a discussion. >> Okay. Um, so my notes are the other line
items were going to be more. So like the internet service and the wireless um was why you those were my notes. I I again just going back to look at this stuff. Those are my notes that they were going to be
higher and in case you needed that money, we're going to pull it from there. So how are you doing with 141 and 133? Again, that was in the beginning of the season. >> So, everything together, just all of it
together, >> we are currently at 154,000. So, 94,000 paid and 60,000 encumbered. That's everything. So, >> all three >> for Yeah. All four items. All three
items. two three plus >> 154,000 >> correct. It's 94,000 paid like actual cash paid and then there's 60,000 encumbered. So, so I'm going to make a statement
because I know this is budgeting isn't perfect, which doesn't bother me because as long as you get the bills paid and we're not having creating too big of a surplus on something, but we are supposed to be doing zerobased budgeting >> and we're at 300,000 basically.
>> No, no, I know. I know we're at 300,000, but I don't want to sit through the process. So next year when the numbers get in whack with your end of the year numbers, I'd appreciate it getting that lined up a little bit better cuz I understand you need 140. You're going to
run you're going to run over on 140 and it's going to you're going to need it for 141 or 133. I appreciate that. But again, instead of rearranging all that right now, if we could have when you have the year ends,
if we could present it next year differently. Okay. >> Do we consent this page? >> Consent on this page. >> A second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. Because it's altogether totaling
what it says. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> No. Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries. >> Yeah, you would say yes. >> Yeah.
>> Okay, we're going to move to >> Hold on. >> Uh, Councilman Koviaak, just check the volume on your internal computer if you can. We're still it's hearing you very softly. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. >> That's actually Thank you, Council
President. That's actually why I'm That's actually why I'm speaking and raising my hand because I I really would like Councilwoman Williams to use her microphone so that it's a much easier for people on the Zoom to hear, please. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right, Council.
>> No, thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Dineria. >> Sure. Um, we're going to move to page 60. This is the health insurance. This is the first document um that I provided to the council and and we're going to go to that modified document in a minute.
Um at a previous budget hearing um council asked for the you know more simplified uh more accurate um budgeting for 2026. So um I did just that. We're also going to talk
about a topic that came up um at the previous meeting and I I think there was even a email request from a council council person about waiverss. So, we're going to talk about that in a general sense. Um but you've been provided with a document that has uh the individual
IDs and um and their individual waiverss. So, um hopefully let me go to the right page here. Okay. So, so this is the modified health insurance
um ask. I think it's it's much more simplified, easier to understand and the the benefit to going back and working with the broker and looking at our max out of pockets on things like healthcare
claims and the prescription plan, which we're both self-insured for. um we have a a savings of $15,956 versus what we asked for in the
introduced budget. So we went from 17,8 and change to 16,992,000 and change. Um so let let me just go through the top here and explain explain the items. Um,
so we put in healthc care claims medical. So that's for both of our optive and our retirees under 65 in which we are self-insured. We pay claims on a weekly basis to the
uh we use Meritame as our third party that processes all of our claims. The 10,955,000 is our out-ofpocket max for healthcare claims. If we exceed that 10,955,000,
our stop-loss coverage would kick in and every dollar over that we would receive back in a check from from our stop-loss carrier. So that is our our out-ofpocket maximum for medical claims. And that that's for our active employees and our
retirees under 65. The next line is our Medicare Advantage plan with the Metropolitan Health Insurance Fund. So, our retirees age 65 and older. This is only our retirees. This is not our active employees that might be 65 or
older. Our retirees, we have a um it's like more of like a traditional uh premiumbased uh private insurance plan with the metropolitan HIF. Um, so we pay, you know, that number divided by 12. So we
pay every month. Our prescription plan is sort of a hybrid this year in that for the first few months we were insured with Benard and a traditional private insurance plan. Starting in April, we became
self-insured um for our active and our retirees under 65. and we we move to a self-insured plan because I think I talked about it last uh budget hearing or maybe council meeting. Um we're going to try to take
advantage of uh having more control of our our our the drugs that we offer. Um obviously we need to maintain the same drug classes that we did with our previous plan, but we have some control over what drugs we offer within those
those those classes. Um, again, trying to take advantage of root dates, um, having a little bit more control over things like the GLP1s and and and how they're they're prescribed out, requiring, you know, fitness plans and
all that. And we also looked at um, you know, what our claims data was with Benard and we we saw an opportunity because our premiums were exceeding our our claims data. Um, so for all those reasons, we we went to a self-insured
prescription plan. And the self-insured prescription plan acts in the same way as the medical plan in that we have an out-ofpocket maximum. So that's factored in to the $2,799,000 ask. Um, and again, if we exceed our max
on on prescription drug uh self-insured claims, our stop loss would would kick in and pay, you know, for every dollar over. Um, we have uh an employee dental plan um with uh
um Delta Dental. Gez. Um this is our our our current um uh plan cost uh 12 month premium for all of the uh the the users
for for Delta Dental. So that's down to 417,000 our waiver payments in which we'll go into a little bit more detail. Um we did the calculation for the waiver payments. So we're at uh 345,000 for the year. Um we talked about uh in
previous meetings about the sort of legacy um um active employees that receive 50% of the of the waiver um the you know the saved dollars and then most of our
employees are on uh either 25% up to $5,000 waiver payments. So we're going to look at a a schedule in a little bit for that. Um, so this is a to the dollar, to the penny, um, healthcare waiver ask. Um,
>> so that is down >> from the original. So there's a big savings there. >> There's savings there. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And then we have the township stop-loss coverage. This is the the plan that we have on medical claims and prescription
claims. Um, it's $1,187,000 for the year. It's paid uh in 12-month increments as as part of our our meritane um uh administrative fee.
Um our retiree Medicare reimbursement, that's the Medicare Part B reimbursement that our retirees are due. Um well, it's not just part B. Uh they can also receive Irma, which is for um uh for Med
Medicare Part B recipients that receive uh that make more money than sort of like the standard um deduction amount, they pay more in part B, so we have to reimburse them since we promised uh lifetime health benefits at no cost. And
uh that amount is an exact dollar amount. We've paid $778,597. We pay it twice a year. Um, and we've already paid it. So, uh, that's that's what the the the paid out amount is. The
chapter 78 employee contribution is what we receive from our employees and it offsets the appropriation for the health insurance. um we receive that in bi-weekly pay and every one of our members is on a a tier
4 um schedule. So we've been talking about chapter 78 for many years I'm sure uh in this in the council chambers. Um we don't have any employees that are on anything but tier 4. Um so maximum
percentage of the calculated premium is 35% for single member spouse parent child and family coverage. That would be the maximum amount an employee would contribute again. So it brings us down to uh a
reduced amount versus 2025 goes down to 16,992,000. Um, so the ask is that uh you amend the budget by $15,956. >> Yes, Council K. >> So, I appreciate that breakdown and
whatnot and I'm supportive of that. I uh looking back at my notes from our last conversation, the the only criticism I'm going to give to the all the programs and this was after that night. And again, I I'm not saying this to to make
a motion because it's halfway through the year, but next year I think you need to look at this wellness program. Um >> I'm sorry, let what the >> the 84,000 for the wellness person that's included in all this? >> It is. It's it's built into healthcare
claims. halfway through and I guess if well I know a few people heard me speak at the last meeting asking questions about it um employees and I I think you need to look into it. I'm I'm going to be fair and talk to a a large amount of
uh employees and I wellness is always obviously helpful but you know if we're looking to save cost it's not a real exciting program. That was a feedback that I had gotten. I could be, you know, again, I only sampled a few few
employees that solicited to me about it. Um, but but it's halfway through the year and it's halfway paid. So, I I won't I won't make a recommendation this year and we can't because it's rolled in, but I'd like to see you do something when you're revamping for next
year. >> I think the contract is up at the end of the year. So, >> yeah, that might we have to look at the have to the want to be a want to. Yeah, that's it. Okay. >> Um the the one thing I will say it was brought up um Mr. Goldman has has brought it up before about planning for
the future. Um and you know I've said it, we again are constantly looking towards next year, the year after. So we engaged our current broker um to look at potential savings for next year in terms
of what what can we do? Um, we've been talking to another entity about some options. Um, and you know, again, we're going to offer all the same stuff for the most part. It's just, uh, how do we mitigate the risk? Um, you know, do we stay
self-insured? Do we go into a private plan? Do we go into some sort of like quasi uh pr-rated entity where we're like a shareholder and you know we have many other entities that share the risk you know we're looking at every option and
um you know while we don't have an opportunity right now to talk to our I mean we can talk to our unions but um contracts are not up until the end of 2028 for the majority of them. You know, we're always thinking about, you know,
what can we ask of our unions? You know, a few years ago, the administration made the the decision to get rid of lifetime health benefits, and that's where the 457b program came from. So, you know, we're we're going to also
be thinking about, you know, what can we change whether it's um plan design, um co-pays, co- insurance, like we everything is always on the table. >> Appreciate your efforts to streamline this operation. Go ahead.
>> Thank you. Um thank you for for reviewing the health waiver calculation. Um, I'd like to ask without being, you know, you without giving information about the personnel. Sure. There are four individuals who are receiving well
over the five individuals that are receiving well over the um 5,000 which is stated by the 2010 law. >> Can you explain why that is? Were they hired before 2019? Yeah. So, can you just clarify that because to my reading
of the law was that they would have had to have started those waiverss before 2010. >> They did. Yeah. They were hired prior to 2010 and they began receiving the waiverss. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. I'd also like to understand in terms of the
Medicare Advantage program how that jumped from a half a million approximately last year to over 3 million this year. >> So yeah, so the the the the amounts on the side are, you know, I changed all the the lines to
give you a better idea for 2026. So you can't really compare that. Um let me see if I have the old one. the old sheet. >> Yeah. So, with Medicare Advantage last year was 2.1 million um and we spent
1,779. Um this year it's 2,205. That's that's the renewal. >> Okay. So, it went up 30%. >> 20 something%. Yeah. All of the Medicare Advantage plans. It's Oops. It's not
just us. It's the the the market itself. Okay. Does the Medicare Advantage plan include include RX coverage? >> It does. Yeah. >> So the they are not included at all in the presuring plan. >> It's our activives and our retirees
under 65. >> Okay. Then can you explain to me um why if the retirees are only eligible for Medicare Advantage why we're paying Irma? So the the contracts that we had with
with the unions was that you get retiree benefits at no cost. So if they're if we denied them the Irma, they're going to come back and say, "Well, I'm now I'm paying for
retirey health benefits because they're taking the federal government's taking this out of my social security every month. That's why we have to reimburse it. It's lifetime >> paid benefits just Irma. We are paying
them. We are covering them for advantage which is coming out of the social security check >> contractual. >> Yeah. Part B and the Irma. Yes. >> Right. But the Irma that is that's something that's unique to pay the difference.
>> Yeah. The Irma is because that particular individual is making enough to trigger. >> I understand what that is. Um, can you tell me how much is is caused by Irma? >> I I couldn't tell you. I don't have a report in front of me. It's It's not a
lot of our retirees. It It's going to be like your big dollar um retirees are are are going to trigger that. Um or if they're still working. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> There's Yes, council. I just want to bring this up and this is no no knock on anybody but you know with the courses that league of municipalities provide they you know they'll go over all this with the way the contracts are we're bound to these contracts and because
we're we're not the only township we you know ours are written certain way but you're still bound by the contracts so I'm just going to throw that out there I don't know what's mandated for um everyone to sit through. I know I've
done it, you know, classes for years on my own, what was mandated, but they are really helpful and they do provide a lot of this in-depth because it is very frustrating to sit here and get questions from uh the public as well of why we have to do this and why are you
paying for this x y and z and you know it's what we're mandated to to cover. >> Yeah. So, you know, it's like you said, we're always following the contracts. There's always that equal to or better which is in almost every collective
bargaining agreement in in the state of New Jersey with all the unions the township you know in an effort to to get rid of legacy costs or reduce legacy costs got rid of health benefits for really everyone now you know and any new
employee is not going to get retiree health benefits um you know it's going to take years for that to have a true impact But that's like the first step is is is you got rid of it. Um and it's going to it would take a lot to ever get
that back. Um so kudos to you know the administration and the council for getting rid of that at that point. So um if you want to go into the the waiver just list um
you know you have a more detailed Uh, oh no, I even left it here. Okay, so if we scroll all the way to the bottom, um, we've paid out the three months, uh,
three quarters worth. Um, we're going to pay out another quarter. Um, you know, in November, I think I put it as December 1. Um but you can see the and it's really small but the
post200 um max of 5,000 is is at 242,000 of the total and then the pre20200 legacy where it was 50% of the savings
it is is 103,000. So, you know, as those and they're they're going to be employees that have a lot of time like as those retire those employees will retire, you know, that number will go down and we'll be left with with the 25
um% or or max of 5,000. Um so, you know, I think we talked about in the in the previous meeting about, you know, towns that have done away with it. I think Milbour was mentioned. Milbour does still have a waiver program. I did
confirm that. So, I just want to put that on the record. Um, you know, and as far as um quantifying, you know, what would what would all these individuals do if they if they took the coverage? Well,
you know, maybe nothing. You know, maybe they really wouldn't even go to the doctor and it wouldn't cost us as much as it is to pay them out. But, you know, maybe a few of them have some major medical um conditions or, you know,
surgeries or cancers or whatever and then, you know, it it would it would totally blow out um you know, the cost savings there. So, uh you know, it it's a risk and it gets better when that that
maximum goes to 5,000. So, you know, obviously as again those employees that are in that higher tier eventually retire, um, you know, the the benefit to us, I think, is greater when you're just paying out a max of 5,000 versus, you
know, our individual max is 250,000 for for an active member of our healthcare plan. >> Thank you. >> Question. >> Yes, two questions. You have two retirees who are getting over 16,000 payout, 16 and 17,000. Are both of are
either or both of those employees close to retirement? >> Um, let me let me look. Um, let me try to remember. You're probably like, without naming anybody, maybe a few years out if I had to guess.
>> Okay. And um also you're saying that the risk of not of of declining is considerable because if somebody gets sick, but if somebody has declined health coverage, why would we still then be on the hook
for health coverage? >> So I'm saying if if there was no waiver, they probably would take our coverage. Um We've heard that from from a lot of our
our our our waiver um employees. If they didn't get a waiver, they would just take the coverage. So that's the risk. >> Yeah. >> I think Council Koviac brought that up last time. >> We didn't have this discussion.
>> Okay. Yeah, cuz like I I'll give an example like we you know if we get like a new officer or something and you know maybe they're under their their family plan it's like oh okay well I'll get an extra $5,000 but if they weren't going to get the waiver they would probably
just take single coverage and they're not going to pay that much because it's income based but again there's the risk there that god forbid something happens and you >> okay can we uh consent to this or move I just want to go over the savings that
you found. >> Sure. >> Can you give that total number again? >> It's um >> 15 >> I'm on the wrong page. >> 5956. >> $15,956.54. >> Bottom of the page. >> Okay.
>> I'll second. >> Councilman Castelino. Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> All we got.
>> Now we're going to move to page 62. Central mailing and was pretty cut and dry. >> So, uh, council president, >> yes, >> I think at the last when we tabled this, um, I had to come back with what we
currently have in in the postage machine. Um, so we have in the meter right now, uh, $14,911 in actual prepaid postage. And then we have in in in the bank,
$2,1824 that just hasn't been converted over to postage. >> Question. >> Any questions? >> Yeah. Oh, council woman. >> Sure. >> Just just real quick. Um, so we all
received our our tax or therefore our uh estimated tax bill. >> So you're obviously you're going to send out the final tax bill if we ever get this budget done. >> Right. >> So that's a whole another mailing. Then you have the fourth quarter mailing. >> Yeah. >> The sewer the sewer tax too has to go
out. >> Right. So the >> how much money do you need for all? >> So the estimated tax billing cost us $10,858 and >> the8 for the estimated bill.
>> And then we're going to have a similar amount for for Q4 true up. >> So what's your projected expense? >> That's just for the tax. >> So let's say that's 22,000 for for just tax mailings. Well, Q4 also includes
>> well Q4 includes one and two of 2027. So um >> Q now it's Q Q4. >> Yeah, >> this is Q3. So, >> so we did Q3 that was let's say 11,000 we round up another 11,000 for Q4 and one and two of 27
and then uh >> you spent 14 on 11 >> and then the sewer bill we >> sewer >> we put the postage on that one so it you know probably another 10,000 >> yeah there's definitely enough in there.
Yeah, >> do have room to cut there. Yeah, >> you're not calculating in the amount that's already in the bank. >> I still have the floor. >> Right. So, >> Castelino has the >> right. >> So, I'm up to 36911
plus you had the other 2200 whatever that number was. >> So, and you're looking you have 78. So, here did you recommend a cut here or >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I do recommend a cut
after >> after factoring in >> that. yeah. What do you got? >> So after factoring in the estimated tax billing, the Q4 billing, the sewer billing along with the service charge that we pay to MGL because uh M MGL we
we do have them um put everything in envelopes and and send out on our behalf. um you know I think we can make a cut of $20,000. >> So just so but just with this this line
item what about all the other department senior services rack? They all have their own line item for budget. >> No, this is this is just the central mailing. So we put postage in for everybody to use. Um >> okay. So do you have those numbers of what you need to get through the rest of
the year? >> That's why I said a cut of $20,000 I think is appropriate. considering what we have in the bank, what we have in postage by phone, whatever this the company is called, and then what we need to do for the major mailings. >> Okay. Because I know we've been mailing
stuff out to the seniors like crazy because they're not all on the computer, >> right? >> Are you finish? >> Yeah. So, you're going to recommend 20,000. >> Okay. >> So, that will Okay. >> Yeah. I'll make the motion. I'll second >> to cut 20,000 by >> 20,000. Yeah.
kind of central Maryland. I guess we should be more specific. >> Should be your usage would be the line >> 110. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak,
>> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Just thinking there was anything else that either be. Thank you, Counciloman. >> Okay,
>> we're gonna consent on this page. >> Yeah, >> consent. >> Consent. >> All right, honorable people. >> Okay, moving right along. Let's get to the police department. >> Um, is that next? >> I have to
I have to take a quick break because I have to access my email and I don't want to do it on here. So I can bring up the table. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just just give me a couple minutes. >> Do Do you Do you want to do anything else or you have to do >> um I mean we could do the other ones and move on and come back to police, but
it's up to you. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Just give me two seconds. >> Joe, you want to make an announcement >> to those in the Zoom audience? We're going to be taking a short break. We will be resuming shortly. The meeting
will be muted and I'm going to pause recordings. >> Okay, we're back. We're moving on to the police department. Mr. Diniac, take it away. >> Thank you, Council President. Um, so we're going back to
uh the salary worksheet for police department. Um, I know it's really, really small. I'm going to make it bigger for everyone at home. Uh you also received an updated salary worksheet. It's in your packet
and I'll I'll go through some of the changes. Um we're going to be spending some real time on this. Um, so the SBA uh pointed out that there were um some positions in there that you know they
had retirements or they were hired a little later and they were in for for full full year allocations. So what we did is we went back and we went through the list and properly prrated every single individual for the number of
payrolls that they're they're on the books for. So there are some retirements and obviously you have the non-redacted page so you can see the names and everything. Um let me go to that. Um
>> the list of names. >> Yeah. So you you you you do have the full um allocation and and what I did was I prated all of the different um compensation types so that you know you
it I didn't just cut you know prorated total salary I prated w salary I prated longevity holiday all of it by the number of payrolls that that individual is here for so we have some retirements and then we have some some new hires uh we have
the the promotions I think we had already covered, but this is really to cover the the numbers because we have some in the academy right now and then the retirements that were properly uh prrated.
>> What was the number of of police officers um or maybe there other titles that that were prrated? >> Um I I can go through I don't know off the top of my head. Um there's basically a
an added column that says number of payrolls in 2026. Anybody that has less than 26 would be prorated. Um you know so it's a a handful of individuals but >> can you just give me the exact number
because I have a six is it do you have six? >> Um let me go through it. >> I think asked of them so one last page >> to >> to $120,000 difference.
>> Yeah. Have all of them been >> three four five six seven So we have seven pr-rated employees in the police department. Um so what does that do for for the
police budget? Um I will scroll down to we have a summary page uh a departmental budget change. Um, so base salary, what this cleanup does is it reduces base salary by $382,000.
Um, civilian dispatchers actually increases it by $2,67. Um, it reduces the holiday pay. It reduces police officer allowance. It reduces the captain chief allowance. It
reduces longevity and reduces college credit. And then the other items um that we're going to talk about here. Um let's go to let's go to clothing allowance. So there's there's an increase to clothing
allowance because I had incorrectly put in um the old allowance um not the new allowance per the the signed collective baring agreement. So that increases by 17,850. um the 457b employer contribution is
correctly um um uh detailed because of the the the new employees that are in the academy right now. So we have four in the academy. Um >> Oh, we were record. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Um we >> Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. >> No, no. I appreciate all this. So my question is cuz when you first drew this budget with the original pages, you can't touch any of that until they give
you their retirement letter in writing. >> Right. So >> I just want CBAP to understand that like that you know obviously you may know who's retiring but until it's you know it's in ink. >> Yeah. And even checked >> we can't touch these line
>> until this morning we looked for retirement applications. is eligible. Whether they're eligible and whether they retire is two different categories. We have employees that have been eligible but have not have still decided to remain with the department or or other departments. So we can't we have
to we have to actually base it out for the entire year unless they tell us otherwise. It it it just and to to the public and you know my colleagues frustration with doing these budgets. You got to get them done early enough but yet we're
able to take money out because we are doing it late which we get penalized for doing it if we do it too late. So it's just it's you know but that's why you always have breakage. We called it for you. >> Yeah. So we really took out the breakage here. Yeah. There's there's
really not much breakage here. Um so this this reflects um the the to um with uh you know all the required uh amount of officers um and like I said
this is to the pay and there's just really no fluff here. Um >> so so my other second question is so what you have on this page >> 28573691 and then on the next page you have one
in parenthesis 120 23789 so what are you taking out of this whole department >> right so we'll get to overtime if you want to talk overtime now I'm making a request
um we introduced at 1,150,000 I'm looking to increase that by 150,000. Oh, >> you want to increase it? >> Yes. And then here is my overtime analysis. So through 15 pays, um, you know, these are the overtimes
versus what we've budgeted per pay. Um, so if you take the 1,150 divide it by 26, you know, this this is sort of like our budgeted per pay overtime amount. Uh if I take the average of of the first 15
payrolls, which these are actuals, and I just say, okay, well, 16 through 26 is going to be 48,000. Um that would put us at 1,270,000 for the year.
Um which is a deficit of 120,000. So I'm asking for another 150 because I can't control the the overtime. I really can't. Councilwoman Williams was next. >> So my first question was going to go back to is there any possible way for us
to incentivize retirement and second part of that is in the police department is there a mandatory retirement other than like there is for the chief? >> No, there there isn't a mandatory retirement and the state is not offering
those early retirement programs. I mean, there's the burnout bill which people can take advantage of, but we couldn't really incentivize anybody to do that, you know, offer them more than what they're already going to get. So, >> that bill allows them to what? Retire
after 20 years instead of >> 25 >> without full benefit to get 50% of their benefits uh package. Some people take that option because they may have a spouse or a partner that they're eligible under health care. So that's why they take it that way. But they may
be employed somewhere else or whatever the case may be in their insurance. And actually there is a mandatory retirement for all police and fire at age 65. That's a police and fire retirement system requirement. That's why we just have one recently where somebody retired at 65. Um not many of our employees are
approaching the other on police and fire are nonuniform. There is no mandatory retired age. So, >> and then there was a list that I recall seeing, haven't seen it in this budget, that actually showed us how many years
each of our offices is that in here? I didn't see that. >> Um, I don't I I there is a column that that I could unhide to give you that. Um, >> well, we were looking at our police and
fire. were trying to project out. >> Yeah. >> Like how many people were going to actually be retiring because they were either aging out or had 25 >> years. Say good indicator for you right now. Anybody at 10% longevity is at 24 plus years on the >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> So that that can give you an idea of how many people without getting the information from Mr. toiac. Right now, anybody who had 10% they have to at least have 24 years of service to get to because it's that 2% that extra 2% goes in that last year before prior to
eligibility of 25 years on the job. >> Okay, good. Are you finished? >> Councilwoman Ruden, you had a question? >> Um, yes. Has there ever been any analysis on what is causing the overtime? And often times overtime is
incurred because we're not hitting minimum staffing. So has there also been any any um you know uh evaluation in terms of how much this would save if we staffed by
and and how many positions that would mean staffing because we're looking at over over a million dollars in overtime. Mhm. So, I I you know, I would say you're you're never really going to get rid of overtime. It's it's just a a fact of life for for public safety. Um
you're right about minimum staffing is what triggers a lot of it. Um and then there's holdovers and there's filling in for crossing guards and you know there's there's a bunch of different factors. I will say we're looking at scheduling.
Um, we're in talks right now about scheduling um to try to make it so that we have more officers available on shift because, you know, people are going to take off. They're especially now with you don't get paid
sick time. So, all of the the younger officers, they're just going to take all that sick time. And you you you get comp time because sometimes you get paid comp time for OT. You're going to use that comp time. you know, it's,
you know, that's the game. That's the public safety game. Um, but we're going to we do the best that we can. I mean, I don't I'm not in a in a position to >> considering are we considering hiring additional police so that we can cut into this overtime?
>> I don't >> I personally don't think that that's really going to make much of a difference. Um, you know, because here's the thing. Our our new officers are not that cheap anymore. Like it used to be that like a
new officer was cheap for a while and the 10.5% 457b program. What that does is that makes an officer expensive almost from the start. So, you know, if we look at, and I'm not going to give any names, but like, you know, if if you
look at somebody that they started in >> 1980, >> $19,000, not even, >> you know, in 25, they're already at like $77,000
and then it's time and a half at an OT rate. So, you know, whereas like in some places an officer might start at $41,000 and that becomes the base for overtime, we don't really have that here. They start at a higher level because of the
10 and a half% being pensionable. >> So, is it the administration's position that we do not need additional police officers? >> And I'm I can't answer that. >> I would not I would never say that because we always look to seek more officers. We're actually in the process of looking at applying for the cops
grant um and see if we can hire more additional officers. You you have to remember when when we're talking minimal staffings, you're talking about certain services and things of that nature and we have contracts involved and and the minimal staffing there there's always going to be um some some uh areas where
we're going to run short. So the argument is and from years ago when we laid off uh in the police department fire actually it wasn't the fire departments the only department didn't get laid off it was all the you departments when they when they reduced the numbers you now you you still have minimals that
you have to get to. So you can pay for more officers to try and reduce um more for the less people getting off or less less scheduling conflict with minimal staffing but it's going to come at a cost as as Mr. the Tiniac just explained between the salary and the and
the the wages, you're going to be you're going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul, so to speak. So, it's it's what you want to do with that and how you want to do that. There overtime will never go away in emergency services. It's just it's just the nature of the beast. You have we have tonight
we have we have three days of storms coming up. We don't know what's good. Tomorrow is supposed to be a really bad day. We don't know what's going to happen. So, we may have to hold officers over. We, you know, we we run into a COVID situation. We run into hurricanes. We run into all. So, you'll never eliminate the emergency service
overtime. It's it's how we we we provide the minimal amount of services to the citizens, whether it be for police, whether it be for fire, even in this in the case of DPW where you have, you know, certain with storms and responses. you know, there just there's certain things unfortunately that are inherently
part of the operations of the township >> that are unpredictable. >> It's they're just >> Now, I just want to add in two to that list. I mean unfortunately the past few years what's been happening nationally in the news has been affect us affecting
us in the township in regards to extra police uh presence in whether we have our community events whether it's our our houses of worship that you know we've had we've had you know >> look at Seattle last night there's a public event and there was a mass
shooting in Seattle last night and they had police officers staffed there but the event still occurred Not saying that you this isn't an alarmist thing. It's just what what do we want to provide? What do we want to do to provide protection to our citizens? That's that's what we have to look at. >> Two years we've had a had our threats
were made to the council forettting forgetting >> incidents such as that in Seattle. Just look at locally here with our snowstorms. that was not a a emergency from a a you know fire or act shooter situation, but just the fact that with
our snowstorms this last year, we we racked up a lot of overtime that we weren't we we applied for but did not receive reimbursement through FEMA. >> So, >> accidents on >> falls under the can't make it make this stuff up categories.
No, just just so the total >> So yeah, let me let me recap the total now. So So the ask is going to be if you factor in my $150,000 request for overtime and and amending
everything else. Um the proposed amount is $15,732,670. Um so it's it's less than what we projected out previously. >> Where we at? I'm sorry. Where are we at? >> 15,732,000. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So that's a 285 number you're going to >> So that's the reduction. Yes. >> Of 285 alto together. All in. >> Okay. Good. Now that's good. consent. >> Don't we have to make a motion to to take that out of the budget?
>> We could consent to just consent on the page. I think that's easier. >> We can consent to the new Yeah. >> the 15,732. >> Okay. >> And I'll second. >> All in favor? >> I any any oppos?
>> Any oppose? No senior and that >> and that's >> from Councilman Koviaak. >> Oh yeah. >> Councilman Councilman Koviaak >> consent consent consent.
>> Okay. >> Moving right along to computer supplies >> 136. Yes, >> we're in 13. Oops, sorry. >> Uh, one page 102. I mean, uh, yeah, page
102. >> Sorry. >> Oh, one. Okay. I'm sorry. >> So, this is the police department's OE budget. There was a question about the supplies and I have >> see what we do with that one.
There you go. >> I thought we put the IT line into >> Yeah, we're going to consolidate >> move that to the IT department for the IT line 136. I have it. >> Oh, there was a I thought there was a
question on >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, then yeah, let's do that. >> Second. Any opposed? >> All in favor? >> I >> So you're reducing it by $3,19.
>> Yeah, because then you increase the other we increased the other line, >> right? We increased the other we just never went back to police. >> Yes, it's a wash. >> Okay, so we're back on to sanitation. Now we got >> Okay. Um we're going to move to page
143. Um, sanitation and pump stations >> and I have this. >> Yeah. >> What was that? >> Need some computer supplies here. >> We had a question for
>> change the name of household supplies. >> Okay. This one was about the portaotties. >> Um, so the >> Oh, I'm sorry. We gonna do it. >> Well, >> there was a question about >> said we needed them and we were talking
about for the 4th of July we had it at the high school as opposed to at the library the fact that we needed them and we couldn't take this out of the budget. >> So the there was a question from um Mr. Goldsman about the amount. So the 2,000 is for a full year incumbrance. So, it's
it's not quarterly. It's just we encumbered a full $2,000 in the beginning of the year for the portable toilets. I don't have a listing of the locations. >> They're they're located through uh various um parks
and um and in one park in particular that we have an issue with the the main water going in which is a capital improvement that's very expensive. >> It's in the five-digit range. And so for us to to get that, we have to get capital budget for it. So
>> that's >> Yes. >> Yeah, I know that. >> Yep. >> That was my guess. >> There's no other information. >> A second. >> Just everybody knows that street fair the budget covers those. So this doesn't
cover >> street fair. >> Okay. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Did we get Miss Councilman Koviaak? I I >> any opposition to your >> um the original omnibus uh salary and
wage line had uh the 030 account listed as longevity. It it's hourly pay. Um so that's corrected here. Obviously this is redacted. Um, but really nothing else is changing besides the hourly payline. Um,
there's a question about overtime. There's a question about overtime and we were we were able to reduce overtime because we promoted an individual um to a new title that would be exempt from
overtime. And we've also been able to schedule the dispatching side of of of uh the omnibus operation in a better way so that we have coverage for the full 6 to 6, right? >> 6 a.m. to 6
>> 6 to 8 >> 6 to 8. Um, >> so we >> we we cover that and and we don't have to have people hold over and again, you know, we made that promotion that that individual is now exempt. So
>> step seven, >> yeah, for the transit analysts. >> Oh, did we talk about that? Yeah, that's >> I don't know if we talked about it, but that's that was the number that we arrived on so that this whole thing worked. We're
we're not taking overtime, >> you know. So, we we sort of like it's like hedge your bet. You don't have to beat yourself up working a million hours. >> Um >> Did you have a question? >> Yes. >> Go ahead.
Um, so you're still requesting 25,000 overtime. What is the actual year to date on overtime? >> Um, >> I don't I don't have the actual OT year to date. I apologize. Um, I I don't have it in in front of me.
>> Okay. So, in here it has a total of 15,000. If that's actual, >> I is this amount needed or can this be cut? Well, the one that was >> what is driving this overtime right now?
>> It's it would be the the drivers. Um, you know, when we get call outs from drivers and and we have our full-time drivers fill in because we do have full-time drivers. Um, so we try to keep a a PDM pool, a driver
pool, but sometimes we can't and and our full-time drivers end up working overtime. So, uh, Mr. Goldsman asked a question about using the Omni Bus for Jity service or shared services or >> I can answer. Yeah.
>> Is there what's what's uh the analysis on that? >> So, you you a shared service like with a different municipality? >> No, no, no. >> Oh, oh, no. >> I can using it to to transport seniors or >> do that. So, we we we do pick up
seniors. In fact, the electric vehicles are only for seniors. Um, so we we do separate out the senior. >> Um, and then when there's like senior events, so like we're taking a lot of people. I think we have used the jity
sometimes, but >> it depends on the amount um that's u of participants in an event. Our our largest bus holds 29 people. That includes the driver and I think we have two or three of those buses. So we will
utilize them in lie of hiring out a bus, but once we get some of these events that go on long distances, say down to the performing arts center and things of that nature, we may have to contract a an independent vendor, but that's that's very few and far between. So whatever we
have the opportunity, we will do that. Um, one of the questions Mr. Goldman did ask is that no matter when we schedule it outside of the normal hours of working, it is an it is a minimal four hours overtime for our for our for our drivers. So if we do it on the weekends, it's 4 hours. So no matter what we do,
it's 4 hours. We try to hire our prediums at a cheaper rate if possible, but we can't always guarantee that they're going to be there because a lot of our prediums are actually drivers for either other agencies or other uh entities. So they're they're doing this to supplement their income. So So most
of the time we wind up hiring one of our full-time drivers, which will cost us more money. So we we utilize service as best we can because we just to clarify for everybody we provide two two different types of service. The Jitney's commuter service from in the morning through rush hour and from the evening
through rush hour which is pdeium uh primarily predium of of staff and then the full-time during the daytime is for our seniors and that's where we and we've actually cut that down too because we used to have five full-time drivers. Now we're down to three full-time drivers, but we have the office staff.
So, we kind of mix and match that. So, and as Mr. Tiniac mentioned, we use the electric vans when possible to cut down on the emissions and um we would let those buses sit idle. But anytime we start a bus up, it costs us money for
somebody to operate. So, Councilwoman Castle, >> I just want to add in with the schools, the schedules are different with the schools because with the schools, you know, after the morning runs with the grammar, elementary and then middle schools, I mean, elementary, middle
school, high school. In the afternoon, you also have all the sports runs, and you have the late buses. So maybe every once in a while there may be a shared driver here and there, >> but it it's it's very rare occurrence.
>> It doesn't happen. I can tell you it doesn't happen at all. It doesn't happen at all. Our drivers, our buses, our buses, the schools, the schools, we cannot we we've been asked to actually try and transport some of our students home. We just we can't do it because we just don't have the timing because our
jitneys are so so uh secondoriented with the with the trains and things of that nature. we just can't we just can't simply provide the service. We can, but it's going to cost us more money to do so. >> Which, by the way, there was a schedule on the one route. Um, what was that all about? >> Yeah. So, that was a request by some of
the passengers and and some in fact who asked for it a while ago now don't want that same thing because it's just inconvenience. We're trying to provide the service as reactive to what we can on that particular route. We have about 50 some odd uh riders there. We had received complaints from about 12 to 15
people to change the route. We did that and now we have about four or five people who are not satisfied with the change. So, and in fact, but that wasn't the only route that was changed. Um, we actually got kudos for routes three, five, and I think maybe six or four. I forget which one it was that they were
actually happy because we just revamped it to make it more efficient. You got to remember we're we're scheduling based on New Jersey Transit schedules. So, we're kind of kind of pressed to make sure what we're doing. The other thing is that the challenge going to be with this new schedule coming up, we're
accommodating that because come September, especially in the Gregory area, we we all know that we're all aware of of the challenges of Gregory and the walkers and the students and everything else. We have we have crossing guards that are out there stopping traffic. We have school bus that impinge traffic. So, come
September, come September, these buses may not be so much earlier than people think they're going to be. We're actually building in stop gaps right now a month ahead of time preparing for school. So there's >> smart >> there's there's a lot of there's a lot of uh timing and calculation that I am
sure glad that that person was at step seven is taking care of that. >> So >> yeah thank you for that quick response. >> Yeah. So we we responded over the weekend. Director Fonino um and and through um the others of our staff have
responded in in what we were supposed to do with that. So, >> and the technology is that where's that >> the technology? So, what we're looking at as far as charges. So, there's has been lots of discussion about us looking at the fees and things of that nature.
So, we have met with um our vendor and some other vendors and I'm I'm hoping to have something to this council within the month of August to present to you for consideration. Um, we did find a vendor that's is significantly less than
the the previous vendor that we were looking at. So, I think you might be pleased then as to what the costs are. But, I have a meeting with them next week with our professionals to discuss what it may may or may not cost us. And at that point, we would come back to the council to cons for consideration
because we would have to go through ordinance to if we're going to start implementing a fee. Uh what whether what the fees would be or we will recommend to you as as most cost effective for us and while being cognizant of our our our riders of how we can present that to you
so we can try and offset a lot of these costs. >> Good. Good. Okay. >> So won't affect this year's budget? >> No. >> No. other than the capital improvement for it or >> well the capital improve well that's why I'm trying to reduce the the amount of capital if if this
>> this uh um product we're looking at goes through we may not it may not require us to do some capital investment >> so so I'm trying to see if we can work out a deal that's great that's actually better for us from an operational standpoint >> I appreciate you taking the ball and run with it and you know and grabbing this
issue because we've been talking about it for years and I think this year we really want to be serious about it >> it's quite cumbersome and it's not as easy as So >> I know and we get a lot of feedback from the public. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> And I'll second it.
>> All in favor? >> Councilman Koviaak? >> I I the eyes have. >> Any oppose? >> Animal control. There we go. Animal control. The next uh the next page is
page 158 and it's also a a new um handout. You know, as we discussed in a previous meeting, we had an animal control assistant animal control officer uh that resigned from the from the township. And
so there was a question of, you know, can can we get the correct proration? So, um up on the screen here again redacting names. We have um in the middle that individual that uh resigned
from from the municipality prrated for 10 pays. And then we have a new employee hired 56 2026 uh prorated for 16 pays uh at their
obviously lower base salary. Uh forgot to put the step in there but it's a lower step. And then this is what the the salary works out to be. So, um, so if we look at what we originally
Oops. We originally asked for $143,346. The new amount is $134,41.38. Um, so there's a question about animal control trust. So, uh, the animal control trust is made up
of of money that we collect selling the dog and cat permits. Um, a good majority of the money um stays with the municipality. Some of it goes to the state of New Jersey um for each permit issued. The clerk's office uh no, the
clerk's office doesn't do this here. the health department fills out um a monthly uh form that goes to the state of New Jersey along with our our payment. And so the money that's collected from all
those dog and cat permits that we do every single year, um some of it gets to stay with us in the trust. And so we use some of that trust money to offset the animal control services. So we don't collect that much of it
every year. So the majority of of the um of the the cost of providing animal control services in the township is borne by the taxpayers and we can take you know a small amount of it from from animal control trust. Again we collect
that from the dog and cat permits. So that was to answer that animal control trust question. >> So total savings is $8,945.38. >> Yeah. >> I make a motion to >> I'll second it. >> Thanks this page.
Make the vote. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President. The motion carries. Hey, senior health.
>> So, now we're going to go to page 162. Um, >> overtime. >> Senior health. I I don't I honestly don't remember >> the overtime >> and was it? >> Yeah. >> You were going to ask Miss Van Dyk if she wanted to stick at the 15. There's a
recommendation to reduce her overtime and you were going to double >> 52 is not Miss Van Djk. This is director Ponzino. This is the health. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This is the nurse. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. This is the nurse system. >> This is the nurse system. >> Yeah. The 090 is overtime. It's not
longevity. >> I have the overtime circled. It went to hourly. >> Yeah. We had a question about what the decrease was about. >> So, wait for director. >> So, I I'm sorry I said Miss Van Djke,
but the director is Mr. Bonzina. So I don't know. I also have I also have this that we consented. So those are my >> I'll make a motion to consent. >> Okay. >> Okay. We go. We're going to break a
record today. Page 168. The >> senior. >> So this is just to consent on the page. Yes. Okay. All in favor? >> I Okay. Any >> note was that we needed to vote but that we did not
>> the only question that I increase $6,000 both 70 >> miscellaneous I have question marks there >> something about the increase too >> thou yeah my notes say 200 and 1,000 >> I also have you wanted to change the name on This one miscellaneous. Somebody
>> to know. >> Oh, change name up top to retired to senior. We have that up top. >> And then miscellaneous. I have changed name. >> Oh, trips. It was trips. >> It was trips. >> I have. >> That what you have? >> Yeah, they take trips, you know, to
>> just >> What is the year to date for the trips? >> I I don't have the year-to- date for the trips. I'm sorry. >> They don't do enough trips. I could tell you that. >> They certainly don't. Yeah. So, this is this is something that probably should
be increased. >> Well, we're not adding >> I know I know >> issue, but I move to consent on this page. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Any opposed? Had that.
>> Okay, here we go. >> Fire hydrant. There there actually back on that page there was something that was also supposed to be changed at 203 was not supposed to be called nutrition program. There's no nutrition program. >> It was supposed to be called food for events.
>> Right. Right. That that is true. >> So that's why they probably call it nutrition. They from the food kitchen they get sandwiches and stuff. >> No, that isn't that's not what this is. This is events food that are taking place at events. It's not from a soup kitchen.
>> Right. No, they that's where they get them from. They get them from the and because of the food scarcity is an issue for seniors. That's probably why they call it that. >> The senior livability nurse was also an issue. That was not
>> just took off the nurse portion. >> That's what I have in my notes. The nurse. >> No. >> Okay. Okay. So, we consented on that page. So, we'll do other fire hydrants. >> Question here that I have in vitals. We
were holding for questions to find out who was responsible for painting the high fire hydrants and we found out that that's American Water. >> So, we were going to request that they come in and do an assessment. >> That's the only thing I had didn't consent because we wanted to find out if
it was our responsibility for American water. So there was some back and forth about how much paint was going to cost if it was ours. >> It's actually all included in the the cost that we don't pay we don't pay for the paint. >> Okay, great. >> I'm not ready for consent.
>> Um the actual spend for the fire hydrants. >> What is it? >> I I I don't have the actual spend for the fire hydrants. I we need the full 950,000. And I I I forget the the monthly cost is the same. It's the same
every month. It works out to be close to the 950,000. >> I believe don't don't hold me to this number. I believe we're paying about $850 or so dollars per hydrant per rental. And we have not only the public hydrants, we also have to pay for the
private hydrants and the condo associations, things of that nature. Mhm. >> Whatever that number is by divided by 850 it would probably tell you. I think we had I I believe we have 1,400 plus fire hydrants in this township. >> That was the number that was another number we were asking. >> Yeah, I believe it's 1400. It's 1,400
plus hydrants. U we we make when anytime new construction is is put into the township, we make sure that there's no no home more than 400 ft from a fire hydrant. That's just what we do because we want to make sure that there's less length and less water friction and
things of that nature. The hydroatics of firefighting I won't bore you with, but that was part of the reason we did that. That started under Chief Capron and we continue to do that and um so that's what we do with that and and a lot of places are actually surprised how close our fire heights are considering how big
this vast this town is. So that's that's what we committed to years ago and that's what we continue to >> Great council. So, my note says that um I have 77088 per month. Is that what >> That sounds right. Yeah, I could go run it real quick in my office, but
>> I2506 and you wanted a little bit more. >> Yeah. So, I think that's fair. >> Right. Because American Water had sent us a letter earlier in the year saying that there was going to be a potential Yes. >> fee increase, >> which they didn't
>> they didn't confirm it. So >> anytime >> it still could happen. Yeah. >> So that's I think why we said we didn't want to touch that just in case. >> Yeah. >> I'll second. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak.
>> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarpa. >> Yes. >> The motion carries. And and just a real quick side note, the other part of it too is that the the the the determination is based on the average flow that we we flow as a as a fire
department every year. So that's how they determine that that number. That's there's a calculation that goes with so one of the few that that's why some towns may pay more or less than we do, but based on our average fireflow. >> Okay. Thank you, Council Castle. >> So don't get too excited. So I have that
and I could be wrong. I have page 198 that we did not consent. >> I have you have consent on here. >> Okay. Just want to move >> and if it's not on this page, I trust the madam clerk. >> Okay. I'm I'm just you know because all the other ones
>> I have I do have consent here. >> Okay. >> Okay. So all the other ones I checked off that we do now >> we just have to do ABC. Right. Right. >> Well, I'm not done question. >> Sorry. >> Okay. So my question is Okay. Okay, we did all of this. When are we going to
discuss tonight revenue and that service? >> I mean, I was only prepared to discuss the schedule. So, I mean, you know, I don't I don't know when. >> So, when do we get this budget over with? >> Well, I I think we have to come up with
the amendment. That's the first thing. you know, calculate the amendment, get the state to approve the amendment and then come back and approve the amendment be a resolution. So, >> a conversation because you know a lot of questions from the public is about
revenue. >> Obviously, we have questions about revenue. Uh the debt service >> that service we went through we we did have a one of the hearings we went through debt service. So, >> but do we have do we consent on those
pages or do we don't need to just when we take money out? >> I mean, now we're we're gonna change it because of the open space. Um, >> we said we need to do an ordinance or no, that was for the short fees for the jney >> for the open to take the money from the
open space. >> Do you need a resolution or need something >> the resolution? Yeah. So it'll capture all of that >> on that page when you figure that out. >> Yeah. I mean do a vote on the resolution. So you know that's when it
becomes real. >> What I'm trying to to figure out is when do we need do we need another full meeting? Are you doing this at the hearing? Uh >> do it at the hearing. We could do it at the hearing. Yeah. >> I just don't you know it's like getting
a phone call. We need to meet you know Monday whenever. you know, we all have our >> in I think the hearing was the hearings have been about the appropriation. That's what it's always been about. Um >> Okay.
>> Child um so I think when we do the public hearing when we have to present the budget in total and then have public comment, you know, we're going to talk about the effect of the amendment and what it does for the taxation. So, >> okay. You'll have in that U budget
presentation, you'll lay out all the budget drivers and Yeah. all that piece. >> Yeah. It'll do our PowerPoint. Yep. >> Our budget PowerPoint. >> I just wanted >> for a picture of what we need to for the page that we did for the health health
insurance >> department 2532. What did that replace? Oh, wait. >> Like what was the amount? The original amount. Oh, >> replace the sheet.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, you can replace page um >> number was it? >> Page 60. >> 60. >> Yeah. Is the ABC hearing here? Like are they
here? >> I think there's just this is a pocket list. So >> Oh, you they're not actually going to be here. So >> yes, Kathy's gonna send that to you. The tax collector. Yeah. >> ABC. >> Just, you know, I wanted to send you an
email. I I didn't get a chance today. Just to let everybody know, we we do have the August 4th meeting in which we are going to have um an executive session about a lot of the topics we've had, affordable housing and things of that nature. So, we will be updating you then. And also just to let you know on
April 18th because of all our discussions about what's going on back and forth and we're talking about training August 18th we're talking about training I have made arrangements to have a a a training session for the council at 5:30 uh 5:00 uh day to 6:30
based on the Faulner act and things of that nature. So it will be for the council and the administration to sit down. I have I'm I'm bringing in an outside council to discuss this and and so we could have this training. So I'm bringing it forth for everybody. So, I will send you an email to remind you. We
have to we have to notice it. Um, it's not mandatory, but I would highly recommend that everybody attend. So, >> is that something that the commissions maybe might want to attend? >> No, this is this is this is strictly for us so that we can try to alleviate this bantering and things of that nature so
we can >> that's the August 18th, correct? >> That's that's on Friday. >> No, it's a Tuesday. Whatever the two I'm sorry, is it a It's the whatever our second meeting is in August. Uh I thought it was the 18th. August 18th is a Tuesday. Correct.
>> You move that back in. >> All right. >> At 5:00 p.m. >> 5:00 p.m. Correct. >> And that's our regular council. >> Yep. I I scheduled it that day because it make it easier just to try and be accommodating. >> Make a motion to close out this meeting. >> Second. We have to close and then do
ABC. Right. >> We have to close >> to go to move to ABC. Oh, sorry. >> I don't know. Do you need counsel for the ABC here? >> No. No. >> I just wanted to make sure August 18th is going to be or do we have another
budget meeting? >> No, I don't think we have anything scheduled. >> You don't need to No, we don't have to schedule it. >> No, we're going to do that when he does the hear, right? >> Yeah. >> Council President, did you second that? >> Yes. >> Okay.
All right. >> So, this is for um 796-26. It's authorizing the renewal of alcoholic beverage to go into >> ABC board. Okay. That's okay.
Is there a motion? Yes. All in favor? I >> Okay. So, uh 79626 authorizing the renewal of an alcoholic beverage control license 0722-33-063-5 rag Varma for the 2026 2027 licensing
term pursuant to ABC advisory notice AN 2025-01. This was a pocket license. >> Yes. Move for the uh >> Dr. Second. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino,
>> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarp, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries. >> Make a motion to close out. >> Motion to adjurnn.
>> All in favor? >> Okay.