Good afternoon, West Orange, and welcome to the West Orange Township Municipal Budget meeting for uh Tuesday, May 20th, 2026. We are live streaming from council chambers at 66 Main Street. You're welcome to join us, but as always, there
is no public comment on Zoom. Uh I would just like to make one quick announcement. the next council meeting which was originally scheduled for Wednesday, May 27th, the date has been changed and the new date is Tuesday, May
26, 2026. Uh, and this information is available on our website and social media. And finally, the next West Orange Township municipal budget meeting after tonight so far is scheduled for June 16th at 400
p.m. At this time, I'd like to turn the fall the floor over to our council president. >> Okay, great. Thank you everyone on Zoom and those of you who made it here in person. Um, Madam Clerk, >> this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in
compliance with section 5 of the Open Public Meetings Act, chapter 231, public law 1975. The notice for this meeting was placed on the Township West Orange website on April 16th, 2026. Councilwoman Castelino, >> present.
>> Councilman Kakoviaak, >> present. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> here. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> present. >> Council President Scar, >> present. Will everyone please rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Thank you. So, Council President, before we get started, um Mr. Diniac asked if the council would prefer to uh
pull the presentation for the department of recreation until the next budget meeting since there were some changes. >> Council president, can I just add some commentary to it? Um so I circulated an updated um recreation uh parks and also
public events worksheet. uh we were not able to provide a document that um redlinined the changes and also I don't know if the CBA has had time um to review that new document since it went out this morning. So um I I don't know
if just want to pull the council members if they want to move recreation to a different day so that everyone has time to review. >> Um we'll do that. >> I just wanted to ask you now so if that's the case I can tell uh >> Mr. in time to review it. And I know
Councilman Koviaak has had some concerns, too, that we haven't had adequate time to review it. So, I'll just pull our council members. >> I could pull. Councilwoman Pelino has her hand up. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to ask you not to do that. I think if you let Mr. Johnson
come in and go over line by line, starting from the top line. Um, last year we got new paperwork every time we sat down from the directors last summer. This isn't rocket science. Everybody
could follow along and and absorb the information. And I if you have at the end of his session, if if you're not comfortable, I would say then, you know, hold on voting. But I, you know, I'm not
going to be here on the 16th and we, you know, unless we make a recommendation for uh being that we switch the 26th, can we do a a a budget hearing on the 27th next week
because I we got to get this budget. This is why that's why we move Yeah. meeting the planning, >> but this is why we don't get the budget done. We keep tableabling things. So, I'm a no. I think we I think we should let him I don't think it's that
difficult to go line by line. Let him go before we ask questions. Let them go line by line. And uh sorry, when I talk too much, my voice goes that that's my piece. >> I haven't had adequate time to review it. Uh Councilman Kovak. >> Oh, jeez.
>> I I say no. Let's uh reschedule, please. >> Councilwoman Ren, >> I'm okay with going ahead. Williams, >> I'm okay with going ahead. Um, so that's unfortunately three of us who are willing to move forward. I think
>> that we can follow along. >> So we'll move we'll move forward. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. >> Hello everybody. >> Uh, who would like to make public comment? Please raise your hand. Okay. Mr. Gibbons. All right. Uh Ken Gibbons sele CPA uh
CGMA MSD youth auditor. Uh good evening. I have been reviewing the proposed budget and following discussions from the town council CBA CFO and department heads. I'm not speaking tonight as someone who currently serving on the town council or
someone appointed by town council. I am speaking as a lifelong West Orange resident. I have lived in the same family home for 58 years where my daughter now represents the fourth generation of our family to call West Orange home. Car deeply about keeping
West Orange affordable for future generations. One area we must focus on is increasing municipal revenue without increasing taxes. In my professional in my profession, I help clients reduce their taxes through strategy planning,
better financial planning, and identifying ways to increase revenue. I believe municipalities should approach budgeting with the same uh mindset. I rode the Jity four different times to better understand residents willingness
to pay for the service. Compared to what I've learned, the daily parking at the train station, the Jity provides a quality value and uh that must justify a reasonable user fee. I also know
Councilman Joseph Koviaak has discussed potentially advertising revenue on the Jity bus. During my rides, I have to say I did not see or observe advertising being utilized. These are examples of how we should continue exploring
additional ways to generate non- tax revenue opportunities. We also uh we should also revisit long-term financial arrangements like the major development deals including projects like Rock Springs to ensure town is maximized in
value for residents and protecting taxpayers. uh in leadership roles at major advisory firms, we focused on improving efficiencies, maximum value, and carefully evaluating the cost benefit of every decision before recommendation.
Uh I believe West Orange should approach its financial challenges the same way. I cannot simply accept that increasing taxes on residents is an answer, especially when many families I know are already living paycheck to paycheck.
At some time I do not believe balancing the at the same time I don't believe balancing the budget should come at the expense of hardworking employees as we recently saw with power professionals at the board of education. Recently one of my elderly neighbors who lived in West
Orange for over 30 years told me she was forced to put her home on the market because she no longer could afford to live here. She's moving to Tom's River as a lifelong resident. Hearing that really truly breaks my heart. I also believe our town government would
benefit from more people with a financial and business background and experience involved in making uh decisions for the town's financial being. Every priority in town ultimately depends on a strong financial foundation. In business, if the
financial foundation collapses, every everything else eventually follows. Municipal government is no different. I often think of my grandfather who our family who bought our family home in the valley and he served as a gunner on a
B29 bomber during World War II. He survived being shot down three times while defending our country. That generation fought hard to build and protect communities like West Orange and I believe we have the responsibility to fight just as hard to preserve them for
the future generations. Thank you. >> Thank you. Would someone else like to make public comment? Mr. Goldman. Um, good afternoon. Justin Goldzman, West Orange. Here today with questions, but also hopefully some productive comments and savings. Um, while it's
certainly important to highlight the challenges facing West Orange, I believe it is more important in my opinion to offer real potential solutions. So, about the past meeting regarding crossing guards or lack thereof, have we entertained reaching out to the Easter Seals program? Congressman Payne Jr.,
may he rest in peace, was a big fan of the Easter Seals. May or may not be fruitful, but it's a concept. Not sure if I got an answer about the sale of mulch and wood chips at the recycling center, nor did I get an answer about the extra police presence for World Cup or related to immigration enforcement.
On the police budget, when fire was here, we talked about their need for new vehicles. I attended as an environmental commission member the sustainable New Jersey summit last week. They had new police vehicles that are fully retrograded and and fit for $60,000. Save longterm with costs. um might be
looking into if new vehicles are necessary. On the mental health and crisis intervention program, we all agreed that the program is the following. Fantastic, necessary, and also has a high price tag. Two out of three of all police force use of force incidents statewide
involve someone with mental health or substance use issue. Personally, this is a very important topic for me. So, a question, how many of our mental health visit calls are repeat visits? Is it possible for us to better address the mental health crisis in town, understanding that while yes, responding
to it is critical, addressing root causes are proactive, important, and more comprehensive. But on that program, good news everybody, I did some digging and I found potential money. The Federal Bureau of Justice Assistance in the Department of Justice has a few grants, some closed this week, unfortunately.
However, on May 27th, grant OBJA 2022-172498 specifically designed to develop, implement, expand deescalation and crisis intervention training programs that improve law enforcement responses to and outcomes for individuals in crisis who have behavioral health
conditions. That grant closes on May 27th with an award ceiling of up to $700,000. That would solve this grant for about the next three and a half years. You can pass this around should we apply and be the eligible recipient of it. That's how we address budget items, not with going through and
finding every small thing that we possibly can. Info and tech. There was mentioned at a previous meeting that the town is implementing a new AI policy and safety protocol. Excited about that because of its policy wonk. Just wondering where that cost would be reflected in the budget. Page 66,
there's a 16,500 differential for central IT. Hard to understand what central other means. So, just asking if we can get some light on what central IT other means and why such a $16,000 increase on the recck department. Um, any possibility to have an adult summer
soccer league for the World Cup? The interest is there. It would be a revenue raiser. Um, on 175 scoreboard maintenance of a 1,000% increase. Is that a one-time payoff or can preventative maintenance be utilized to mitigate that cost? 2025, we spent
$656 on advertising for parks and playgrounds. This budget asks for a $10,000 15 times increase. I got no answers for that. At the April 29th senior resource fair, I had a representative a conversation with a representative from PAL and I asked them
if they'd expect an influx of participants if the board of ed went ahead and cut youth programs. That was unfortunately very preient and happened. So, I'm just asking at that next board of ed meeting, it was said that there was already a plan in place for the town and the recck department to work together to absolve those costs. I don't
know if that's true, if that is. It's not reflected in the budget and just curious where that might be. Um, page 177, $2,300 increase for MPSN programs. Explanation would be great. Page 178, Mountaintop League is listed
specifically for basketball for $5,000, but Mountaintop League in general is listed on 175 for 9,000. Just asking if there's any crossover expenses there or if those are intentionally dup uh you know different listings. Utilities page 187, the budget asked for a 6% increase
in fuel costs, but a 10% increase for diesel. Just wondering if someone can speak to the proportionate difference and why those asks are not going up the same rate. Page 189, utilities again um asking what the projected savings would be in town with heavier investments in
solar. Newark Academy as a school just announced its solar panels will save 32% annually on uh electricity. And at the sustainable New Jersey summit last week, there were many grants and programs available. One program available is the New Jersey clean energy programs local
government energy audit. It is a free consultation service to discuss how buildings can best weatherize and conserve energy costs. It is a free consultation to listen. Willingboroough Township did this audit and now save $700,000 annually on their electric cost. That's almost one tax point if we
just listened and perhaps implemented their recommendations. Thank you for your time. >> Great. >> Uh just if you haven't um already given those grants to the mayor, please do it immediately because she directs Millennium. >> Yes. So, and since there's some tight time frames,
>> I will make sure Pete BA gets it as he >> Thank you. Um, yes, Miss Bear. >> Hello everyone. Edy Bayer, 14 Dogwood Drive. I'll be representing SABA tonight. Um, two things. Last year, the
SBA recommended pursuing a forensic audit and the council budgeted a partial payment. I think that or I understand that RFQS went out. I'd be curious in here to hear whether we've received any responses and what's the status of any
award. Second, it's also my understanding that Rock Spring contra the management contract expires in July. Last year, the SABAB recommended looking at several approaches to the management of Rock
Spring, including perhaps a long-term lease. Um, my understanding is that the current contract is out of one-year extensions. So, I'm wondering what's going on with that. Um, and then on a personal note, when the air conditioner
blower is on, it's very hard to hear in the gallery. So, please speak up. Thank you. >> Thank you. give your name and address. >> Sure. >> Hi, my name is Cat De Walker. I'm at 59 Stanford A. Um, this is my first time
coming to a council meeting, so I'm kind of going off of, you know, what everyone else is saying. So, I'll start off by introducing myself. My husband and I moved here about two years ago. Um, it's our first home. Very excited to start a life here. West Orange has been fantastic. Um it's so beautiful. The
community is wonderful. And um some the reason that I came here today is primarily the discussions that I've been seeing about the Jity. Um yesterday within two different community group chats that I have and they include other young families in West Orange that are
commuting into the city. Um we're talking about you know whether there's going to be a fair or the service is going to be eliminated. And um as I researched and saw that this meeting is available, they did also mention that they're not going to be able to attend today and speak up on behalf of it
because they are working right now and because the time conflict. So to say that there are voices that are not necessarily being heard just because of the schedule conflict. Um but I just wanted to talk about how I really feel it's a critical service to residents in West Orange. It's something that from an
environmental impact, you know, reduces the number of cars on the road. the times that I did have to drop off my husband at the station when the Jitney was running late or you know or we were running late. Um the traffic is awful on 280. It's so chaotic getting there in the morning. It really does I would say
detract from the quality of life in terms of that experience. But I would just love to really keep it top of mind that keeping this as a free service is a way that I feel really shows how West Orange cares about the young families that are moving in the working class. And I think it's an essential service.
So I would definitely like to see that remain. So I just wanted to show up today and speak on behalf of that. >> Thank you. Can I can assure you it is a vital service which is we're not going to cut. We're just looking at streamlining and making it efficient so we can keep it going for the next 5 years. >> Fantastic. Thank you.
>> And I I hope you'll spread the word because the rumors go crazy as you've noticed. >> I've had tons of emails myself. >> Yeah, that's why I figured come to the source and you know get an understanding. >> Well, you've heard it. >> All right. Thank you so much. Great.
>> Is there anyone else for public comment? No. >> Just as a point of information, uh, Council President, I'd like to inform the, uh, public that this meeting will be, uh, posted online at west.org within two hours of the end of the meeting, so it will be available to view on live.
>> Let the Jity Rogers know. I'm I'm I'm calling all of them that are emailing me. Uh, would anyone like to respond to public commenting? >> I literally put 15 copies up somewhere. They're somewhere. Wait. >> Councilman Koviac, are you interested in
responding? >> No. >> Is there was there a motion to close public comment? No. No. Is there a motion? >> Yes. I'll make a motion to second public comment. >> Okay. All in favor? Any opposed? Public comment is closed. >> Council Ruden.
>> Um I just wanted to thank u Mr. Gibbons and >> um Justin for well Mr. Gibbons talked a lot about revenue stream and that I really wish that we were more involved in that. We are not really as a council but very very critical um to help to
help reduce taxes in West Orange. Um Justin always a million ideas really good um I have flagged some of them myself and hopefully I'll remember to ask all of your questions as as I go on with that. Um
um Edie, I I agree. I'd like an update. We'll ask about what's going on. I know it was extended three different times, so I think maybe possibly the forensic audit is coming in soon. And Rockspring has not been addressed, and it really does need to be. Um Cat, I believe, uh
Dewalter, thank you so much for coming out. Um we're thrilled to have you as a new resident in West Orange and the council will do everything to protect the Jity. Thank you everyone for coming out. Um apologies again for the time, but we are
trying to work through um getting our budget done as quickly as possible. Um although it hasn't been mentioned, I think at some point we might want to figure out if there's a possibility for us to reimplement um our Zoom audience participation. Um perhaps it could be
something where um you're registered in advance and you give the topic that you want to speak to. Um but I really do believe that we need to re-engage those uh members of our community and public who are unable to physically be present. Um I think that would give our residents
u more of a voice. So, um I would like for my colleagues to perhaps in the administration um to to see if that's something we could put some different parameters around so that we can be uh conscious of time um but still be attentive to those
who are unable to be here physically. Um Justin, I'm going to ask you the same thing again. I I just send us an email, get it us to us in writing. You have wonderful suggestions, ideas. Thank you so much for finding this grant. Um, teamwork makes the dream work, right? We
pay professionals, but they don't always see everything. And then, of course, we're here doing the same thing, looking. Um, so it's us working together that's going to really be able to help our community move forward. Um certainly revenue is the thing that we have to
concentrate on um as far as our township is concerned and even as we're going through this budget process um making the cuts that are necessary so that we can lower um the impact on our taxes we still have to focus on revenue streams
and that's something through throughout this budget process that um we just need to increase in West Orange. There's several opportunities that we have different different projects um different development opportunities that we really need to understand where they
are, how we can bring them into fruition and really get the community involved in the conversation around what we want West Orange to become. Um so thank you everyone for coming down for your comments. Um and you know working together we will make West Orange a
better community. Thank you. I think Councilwoman Castelino had her hand up. >> Yeah. Thank you, Council President, and my apologies to the public and my colleagues for not uh being there again. I don't like to miss meetings, but I also don't want to spread my germs to
you guys and get you sick. Um, so thank you all for coming in this evening and uh, you know, Ken Gibbons, it's always great to hear from you and your knowledge and and your heart, your West Orange heart for, you know, growing up in the township, being here for a long time, seeing a lot of things and being
very passionate. Always appreciate that. Uh, Justin, you just are just another wealth of knowledge and and thank you for always coming to us with great recommendations. Um, and I echo my colleagues comments with, you know, we don't always see
every grant. So, it's great that you did and we appreciate that your due diligence. And I know you had a lot of questions that didn't get answered last time. I just hope council president or Mr. Datiniac administration if you're jotting down the notes. So, when we get to those sections in the budget, um, his
uh, answers will uh, questions will be answered. And if something isn't answered, if you could just please email us cuz um you you you do you do give us a lot of great information, but we you know, hopefully if we miss something, we'll be able to uh to get you that information. Um, but as far as middle
school sports, I just want to answer you on that because um, being a former school board member for 10 years. I always fought to keep middle school sports in our um, schools mainly because a lot of the kids that do tend to play
middle school sports, they're they have, you know, their parents are working, they can't get uh, them to the wreck games. And um you know although the programs through the years more and more kids are partic participating in wreck
travel and wreck sports and find a way to get to practices and to games. A lot of the uh students that can't unfortunately always uh played middle school sports and it's a shame that that program was taken
away. Uh Mr. uh Johnson could talk to it uh when he is uh presenting to us, but it really to duplicate uh middle school sports the way it's done at the middle school level with busing and transportation is is impossible for the
township to pick that up. Um we do offer other programming. Uh he's always working with the schools to expand, but the traditional middle school sports programs unfortunately uh it is isn't something that we could
possibly uh be able to uh replicate. I'm really sorry that the schools uh uh put that on the chopping block. It's it's a lot of students really count on that for participation and now they have to wait to high school some of them before they could even participate on our sports
teams. and it's it's disappointing. Um, but again, these are tough times. We're going to keep working on revenue. We keep looking at this budget, keep asking our directors to go in there and and keep cutting with their scalpels and and seeing where we could save programming
uh without hurting everything this town has been uh has traditions with. Um, and Edie, thank you so much. And the and the and your commission's hard work. Uh, I too, you know, we we know it's coming. I don't know when, but also the line item
would have to be adjusted for when Mr. Tatini thinks we could actually start the work. So, um, that's a line that could be adjusted in the budget. Um, and also Rock Spring, it has been, don't worry about it. You know, we we've talked about it being a long-term lease
this time. That's why the year-to-year um you know you couldn't get anybody with a triple net lease or better terms and conditions because of the shortterm leases that been done in the past. But now that we finalized um what we're doing with the property by keeping it
green acres, excuse me, by being able to keep it green acres, we're finally in a position to where we could go for that uh long-term lease agreement. and Kat, thank you too for coming on down. Um, and I know it's hard
and and and my council colleague talked about going back on Zoom, which I I'm not I'm not against, but we did have issues with people hacking into our meetings is why we stopped the Zoom call. We really had some tough meetings with that. And uh so I'm you know it and
also the time I mean we're we're not getting to our work till a really late hour and I love to figure something else out. But I'm glad you came down because I've always been a big proponent of the Jity. I had uh worked with our former mayor Paresi to expand the jity to route
six and uh and last year my council colleagues we expanded it to route 7 um with an approval of an additional bus last year for $50,000. uh cost really rose this year and that's why there was talk from my colleagues
and um we have to you know look at it and see what nominal fee we could or advertising whatever we need to do but we need to keep that jitney system um I've been a big proponent of it um and I know many folks have moved here I work
with Jen Sheret uh w with this program and Mr. Moraldo and um yeah, we we need to keep it going, but we also had to balance that with the the cost and figure that out as well. So, thank you for your input. We know there's a lot of
chitney riders in this township and they spent a lot of money moving here the past couple years and and I know it's for that service. So, um you know, thank you for choosing West Orange. Thank you, Council President. >> Okay, great. Thank you. I'm going to
welcome Cat and uh let you know please don't be a stranger. We love the feedback. Dispel the rumors about the Jity. Just so everybody knows, I actually worked with Dena Rubin many years ago to be in the film that
actually went to the mayor to advocate for that jity for uh the the people up on Pleasant Valley Way. In fact, my son was also in it and we talked about how important it was and why we needed it. So please know our goal is to make the Jity you know as cost-effective as it
can as we can so that we have a lot of development coming apart we're going to have a lot of new employees new children in the school and we need to make sure that we can preserve it and run it efficiently so it'll be here for all of us in the next five years. Um Mr.
Gibbons Ken uh great points. Um I'm glad you rode the jity. I've got to do the same. you know, the user fees and the advertising revenue. We've been talking about that now since a decade. I think when I sat back there myself in the audience, we've asked, you know, talked
about these different things. So, it is time that we look at it more seriously, which is why I've created a small group to work on that. I know CBA has started as well. Um, Rockspring, I think you are absolutely right about uh Rockspring. We
need to look at it more critically. I have to say for many many years Todd Deaui has been coming here and asking for income and expense reports and to help us understand the real cost of a Rock Spring with the depreciation and
all. And so I'm going to ask once again Mr. Datiniac if we could really work on this and get some real numbers. Yeah, I think I provided the most recent uh >> Pete, right? I think I sent over the financials. Yeah. For Okay.
>> Okay. Because it is important. And Mr. Smaldo, I'd ask I'd like you to talk about it is now going the end of May. It's going to be June. The contract is up in July. What is the plan? >> So, Council President, first of all, I apologize to all the council. I was at
the central Jersey GIF meeting which is in Piscatoaway and I left at 2:30 and I'm here now. So I apologize for my tardiness and I know councilman Kovak you sent me some emails. I apologize I couldn't respond to them but I was just kind of tied up. So um with regards to Rock Spring um I just caught the tail
end of that. Our contract is actually up in the end of September. Um we are in cont uh I I've been speaking with our attorney. Um we are in um dialogue with them and with Rock Springs. So, we have been working on it. So, without giving getting into the u the fine weeds of it,
we are working with it. In fact, I just spoke about it with them. >> Are we looking at a long-term lease or >> we're looking at all our Yes, we're looking at long-term lease on all our options. >> Okay. >> So, we we've had meetings with them. >> The count the township council get some >> once we have a a a concrete plan on what
direction and how we can get that, we're going to pres we obviously we're going to present that to you. So, but we have been meeting with them and um and I'm trying to set up some more meetings. Councilman Kovak. >> Yes, sir. >> I just wanted to add some context to the discussion about Rockspring. Uh we do
not have an all-in cost of Rock Spring. Just from an operating perspective, just as an operation as the golf course is now, we are losing big money big time. So, in all of this discussion about what to do about Rock Spring, I think we
should take into account that it is losing money. And guess who subsidizes the losses? It's all the taxpayers. Exactly. We also don't know how much the uh 12 or 13 million in debt that was used to uh buy the property and also to
add uh a fleet of golf carts. I don't know how much that is costing us in terms of debt service, but we need to find that out. We also need to find out what the capital expenditures are that that we have paid and what our future capital expenditures going to going to
be. And also we need to get a better idea of the uh capital fund that is part of the finances of of Rock Springs. So I welcome a decision on this, but we really need to start out with knowing how much this is costing us because that
has to be a significant consideration in whatever we do for them. >> Yeah, I would agree. You know it's very disappointing that we have not been given that information because we are really responsible for the finance you know for the oversight and and it is important for us to understand you know
the real costs of everything we do not just on the budget but the project as well. Um, also there was a question, Justin, uh, thank you for all your wonderful comments, ideas, suggestions, all fabulous. The, um, salt, the mulch
and the wood chips up at the, um, up at the recycling center. I know that's been an issue for a lot of people for a while. And I think that whoever is running that does sell it and make a profit. Maybe Mr. >> That's part of the contract we have with Nature's Choice. So they they produce it, they sell it, we get a percentage,
and John can give you better amounts of stand upon that a little, >> but that that is part of the contract we have with nature. >> Okay. Could you just tell us, you know, how much we get? >> Yeah. I I don't know off top of my head. I'd have to look it up, but we get a percentage of the revenue. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a contract the council
ratifies and >> Yeah. I believe we entered in an agreement about two years ago, I think, was the last time we >> predates me. Yeah. >> Yes. I know. I've had a lot of questions. >> I I'd have to pull up the contract. I don't I I don't have that off the top of my head. We'd have to pull the contract, see what it was. But I if it predates uh
Mr. Datiniac, that's two years, just about two years ago. You started in September >> 24. So it was just prior probably just prior to that >> because we we went through that exercise and and we entered in agreement and um I believe was a three one and one
contract. So if it's just two years and prior to him, we probably have at least another year on it, if not a um a little bit more. But we'll have to pull it. I just don't have it in front of me right now. >> Okay. It would be nice to know. Okay. Thank you. Did you have anything? >> So, Miss Carnival, if you could pull that contract for us tomorrow.
>> Might be delayed. >> Thank you. >> Okay. And that's about all I have to say. So, Mr. Datinec, we can get started. >> Um Oh, go ahead. >> So, council president, I have Mr. Mauricio Garcia sitting next to me. >> Sorry, Pete. before we start.
>> Um, what I do with it? >> Okay. So, at a couple of of the budget hearing meetings, I've been asked to calculate the the amount of cuts that we have so far. So, I don't have the results of the
last meeting, >> meeting four, but I have meetings one, two, and three. And so what I have based on um uh the clerk's excellent recordkeeping, we've cut $224,000
out of the budget um which is about $13.80 on the average home. So that's where we're at now. And I know Monday we cut 100,000 from garbage. And so for the next meeting, I'll have uh
meeting four and five uh which is tonight's um to report. So right now we're at uh $13.80 on the average home. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Appreciate that.
>> Go ahead. >> So this Mr. Garcia, he is our our u our IT manager, so to speak. He's the guy who oversees it Joe that we talk about and uh he he is our our eyes and ears in the protection of our IT system. He
manages the entire both in the uh the non-uniform sector of of our our our organization our our our government and oversees the police and fire systems. And um he is um he is quite talented and
he's quite capable of protecting us. And he sends out every once in a while he sends out these reminders to remind us that we're not supposed to be checking spam. If you do, you will get penalized. I will tell you that. Um I could tell I could attest to that. So, but he u so I I'm happy to introduce him. I think this
is his first time he's ever speaking here. So, I just wanted to put a name and face and and say that we're I I'm comfortable that we're in great hands with him as far as our IT management. So, >> thank you for all you do. >> Thank you. I did have a
I did want to just sort of >> make a statement. >> Yeah, make a statement. Just sort of say what I do. I'm not really sure everyone fully grasps what we do. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh keep us at a high level not to bore you guys to death. Uh I want to give you
a clear picture technical path and direction of IT environment. Uh and uh in our department uh we've recently combined the IT department. to the uniform services and non-uniform services. Our department's built around a layered cyber security model. We don't
rely on any single product. We implement multiple overlapping controls to reduce risk across endpoint networks and user access. At the endpoint level, we use a combination of Microsoft defender for standard workst protection, sofos for
server inside, anti virus. On top of that, we have endpoint detection and response which an ED ed EDR platform which gives persistent monitoring, threat hunting and rapid incident response. We've also implemented threat
locker which is an application um allow listing solution. This effectively blocks unauthorized software execution at the kernel level dramatically reducing ransomware and zero day exposure. For our DNS layer security, we
uh utilize cyber sight agencies uh agents which monitor and filter outbound DNS requests. This will identify and block command control malicious domains etc. Also subscribe to dark web compromise report tools managing
uh accounts that may be compromised and uh are present on the dark web. From a network performance uh perspective, our infrastructure is built on a redundant firewall sonagor firewalls. These serve as a backbone of our security measurements providing deep packet
inspection intrusion prevention uh along with our secure VPN connectivity. All remote sites are connected through encrypted VPN tunnels securing secure uh ensuring secure connectivity across locations. Our access control is tightly
managed. We enforce multiffactor authentication using duo foil server access and extend that requirement to all remote connectivity including email. This significantly reduces the risk of credential compromise. On a device
management we have an RMM system remote manage remote monitoring and management of endpoints allows us to automate automatically patch enforce and configure baseline and respond quickly to system issues. For backups, we have local cloud-based backups for redundancy
to our backup solutions ensuring uh ensuring business continuity uh system uh in the event of a system failure or cyber incident. Our mobile device management, we've deployed IBM mass 360 which gives us full control
over our phones and tablets. uh policy enforcement, remote web, remote wipe capabilities and secure application management. Operationally, we support a fairly large and diverse environment,
including over 200 PCs across municipal uh police and fire departments, over 50 tablets, multiple laptops, Chromebooks, as well as a wide range of spe specialized devices such as mobile data terminals and vehicles and other wireless equipment.
We've also modernized our enterprise system. We've recently implemented municipity on our central platform for building planning zoning clerk DPW engineering workflows. Our next phase which we're working on right now will implement full
online residential interaction allowing applications payments process uh uh completion from home or mobile devices. We're moving to a paperless environment using Fionics. We've migrated uh to Pasio for our omnibus transportation
services. In parallel, we've integrated Prime Point into our payroll and HR applications. We're preparing to roll out that financial system uh in the coming months. Uh my department manages the networking of these along with countless other hardware software applications throughout the
non-uniformed and uniform side. On the public side, which is fairly new to me, uh we've taken I've taken on responsibility for overseeing police and fire systems. This includes network management, inventory control, camera infrastructure, uh records management systems, radio
communications, 911 systems. These environments are significantly more complex due to the real-time requirements and regulatory compliance, particularly the sieges standard standards. I'm actively working through those networks architectures uh and state and county requirements to ensure
we're in full compliance and operational uh reliability. Uh we also collaborate with external partners to extend our IT capabilities. MCG supports the non-uniform side. Pasc supports the police and fire networks.
Both firms provide specialized expertise and are complements to our internal resources. Finally, I've recently brought on a new team member. He'll be graduating next week as uh with an IT degree. He's already proven to be highly capable. He is a West Orange resident
and high school graduate. He's helped expand our capabilities and will play a key role in maintaining and advancing our infrastructure moving forward. Overall, we're in a strong position through our through our layered security, redundancy, strategic platform upgrades. Uh we're operating at a level that exceeds many comparable
municipalities, particularly under our new GIF infrastructure standards. >> Thank you for that very thorough analysis because when I looked at your department, I was wondering what you all do and I was going to ask you about that, but I see no need to do that right now. >> In general, I just try to make sure
every other department functions. >> Right. Thank you so much, >> Councilia. >> Yes, sir. I want to add to that that I found your narrative which is basically missing in action for just about every
other department very helpful to understand not only uh what your services are but I just hope perhaps next year you could talk about what are the new things that you're doing as opposed to not that the old things that you've been doing are not important but
uh the new things are what uh inform inform us about, you know, to try to equate that between the new things you're doing and the changes in the budget. >> Let's see where our budget takes us and we can do some a lot of new stuff.
>> Yes. So, so uh I I want to be very complimentary on that because I think it's it helps all of us to know what's going on. Last year, we spent a huge amount of time on the IT budgets because I I I don't I don't think I'm speaking
out of turn, but because there were so many subline items for each one of these budgets, they were spread across uh the the various departments and we couldn't look at it at a centralized place. Now, we can look at them in a
centralized place, but for a budget of nearly $650,000, we basically have five line items of the five areas of service. And I I I just want to say I I don't think that's the
way we should try to do this going forward. I think we should have some explanation of you know uh of the of the five line items that that uh are here. Four of them have gone up and one of them has stayed the same. So uh I I
think in terms of us evaluating whether we're going in the right direction, uh this is I I hope not the way we go next year. I think we need, you know, at least a page of new programs or or or some sort of subline items so we know what's uh going on with
this 7 and 12% uh uh increase. So, I I do have some questions. I I sent them uh earlier today. I don't know whether you've had a chance to look at them, but I'll just run through them if if you don't uh uh if you don't uh have them in
front of you. So, >> one of the things that you mentioned, you had a hiring this year. We also had a retirement this year and the person who retired was at a much senior much more senior level at a much higher compensation rate. The the higher that
you've made while not an insignificant compensation is at a much lower level. So I'm just trying to get an idea. Are you looking to replace the uh the high level person who retired or is is the person who you're bringing in basically
all of the hiring you're planning to do at this point? >> For this year, that's all the hiring I'm planning on doing. Um I I was hesitant to bring someone new for the police and fire. I want to
I have a lot to learn on their infrastructure and uh bringing someone in would really just bring them in where I am right now. So the the new employee, he's really going to be filling in, for lack of a
better term, the day-to-day operations, printer problems, PC issues, basic issues, and I will be taking on the more complex the complexities of the PD and fire. um the the infrastructure is
because it's PD and fire and they they kind of live on their own. Um I'm I'm spending a lot of time just understanding and documenting everything that they that they have there. It's taking a good amount of
time, but uh hopefully once I have a much better grasp of it all, um I would like to bring in a third person in the IT uh department for next year. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Uh there was a question during public comment that that I also
had which was what's the IT definition of old or I'm sorry not old all of things are old uh in your in your line codes but other what does other mean does that mean basically miscellaneous whatever doesn't fall under one of the other
>> yeah I believe that's what uh yeah yeah because there there it's difficult to I mean we we could line item it the way it used to But that just becomes overwhelming. Um, so I guess we kind of went too far in the other direction of
of lumping it all together. We we we'll Yeah, we'll we'll try to swing that back uh next year. But >> but as an example, what would be what would be another an other item within that that line item >> within the 2305?
Well, I mean, >> for example, would would the cyber insurance payment would that be something that falls under I'm seeing Mr. Not >> now it's >> said no >> I mean you can go through this this is our sort of generalized IT
non-specific to public safety so MCSG which is micro computer system consulting group >> IT Joe >> IT >> so IT Joe's contract is is charged to this um
>> and we all know who it Joe is so that thank that that really answers the question Yeah, >> we have copy or maintenance um contracts that are that are in included in the 2305 IT services.
>> Most things that get plugged in usually fall in it somehow and they're not easily categorized copers and and things that >> are bas.
So I guess that would be other Okay. A lot of IT costs are hardware and uh apps that are basically plugged in. So you have a very good idea of fixed costs. I was wondering if you could characterize of the $650,000 budget. How much of that
projection for this year are the hard costs that you know are going to happen uh as opposed to projected costs that may or may not happen. Is is that a fair way to break down your budget estimates? Yeah, it's it these are mostly recurring
costs. The we don't have a lot of uh room in there to like buy computers or to buy hardware. It's mostly recurring contractual costs like we talked about at the IT Joe or on the police side, Pascac data services, which is sort of
the police equivalent of that. Um we have a substantial expense for our radio equipment for dispatch and for the cars with Motorola uh uh Eastern Communication um who manages and services all of our our our
uniform radio equipment. U so it's a lot of it's a lot of recurring costs in there and not so much um like hey maybe I'll buy a computer or not out of here. >> Yeah, the capital's not really in here. >> Okay. Capital Legend will be.
>> So I I I'd mentioned before uh it would be helpful to know sort of what what's coming out new this year. Do you can you just off the top of your head talk about uh one or two of the programs that you're implementing in 2026 that that uh probably introduce uh additional cost
into the >> introduce additional costs because the budget's up 7 and a half%. I I realize part of that is inflation, but uh >> yeah, I mean I it costs in general are it's it it's tremendous. Um just
purchasing a PC. I I used to be able to buy a PC for $700 and you know a decent PC now that's you know starting at you know 1300,400. It's really is just an incredible cost. You know I'm I I spend
a lot of time rebuilding and refurbishing PCs. And where a hard drive would cost $30 to $40, it's costing 90 to $100. The exact same hardware. It's it's almost double
the cost. And memory cost, forget it. That's almost triple. >> Now, it's uh but it's still cheaper to upgrade memory and hard drives than it is to purchase the new PC. We're not getting state of the line, you know, state-of-the-art, but you know, we are
salvaging. You know, I've got eight PCs sitting in my office now that are just salvage that that that we're looking to to upgrade. So, the costs are tremendous. >> From a services perspective though, we did increase the PD budget because we did have that retirement from from that
particular employee who who was able to do a lot of it on his own. So we are allotting a little bit more for Pascac data services um to be able to sort of pick that pick up the slack. Not that Mauricio is not going to be able to do
it, but you know, he's still he's still learning it and he's only then, you know, my predecessor did and it's going to be for another year or so before I have a full grasp of, you know, I spent four hours just running trying to figure out where one one wire was for the uh
the 911 system. And uh it was it had I just been able to call them, it probably would have been a lot faster. But so I'm using Pasc quite a bit more for >> and the way Pasc works is that you know we pay per month for an aotment of time
and then if we need extra time it's like you're literally buying hours uh what is it 15 hours at a clip or 20 hours at a clip you have to buy >> and even Eastern which is the radio systems my predecessor >> did all the radios managed all the
radios picked them >> uh processed all of them Uh I spent I don't know countless hours with Eastern learning how to do the system, logging into the uh you know just logging in and
I'm still just scratching the surface uh of that. So even uh Eastern our first year we're going to be spending a little bit more of them until I have a much better grasp. And then from uh from the central IT the 2305 old code 2305 we
purchase um software licenses through MCSG >> I keep calling MCSG mcg we purchase um uh like the office 365 license or or email licenses. So those costs through
Microsoft have gone up. Now we get a discount in that they're sort of buying in a in bulk so they can pass along some savings to us but you know the Microsoft license cost goes up so we we end up paying more. Um so on uh Thank you. So
on your central IT online account you've so far it the the actual budget I think is $75,000 this year. You spent 226 I guess in the first quarter. Is there some reason for that big disparity between the total budget and the small
amount that's been paid in the first quarter? >> Sure. Sure. >> Yeah. So, right now the only thing we've charged is we've moved the Zoom meeting um uh cost which used to be reimbursed to an employee. We moved that into online services. We're going to get a
bill for Fauvionics and for Municity which we just haven't gotten yet. So um our annual municipity and fovionics are going to eat eat that up. So as as Mauricio said municipity is is a new centralized platform um to coordinate
engineering DPW uh zoning >> code enforcement planning >> clerk's office really anything that has a permit or a uh a license on it. It's uh it's all going to be
>> is it is it fully implemented yet? I know we've been talking about the implementation for >> it's not >> it is not fully implemented. We're working on it. >> Okay. What's estimated delivery time? >> Looking at we're looking at um the first
of next year to get it up and running. We had as with any I didn't realize when you custom build a um a an IT system or you know a software type system in this space it it is actually um an undertaking and we have meetings weekly
meetings we have uh quarterly meetings depending on the subject and so all our departments are getting involved. Um we're at the point now where where we we believe we have the kinks worked out because what works in one department doesn't work in the other. Um, but we're having it so that it's going to work out
um that the public will be able to uh answer soon. So, we're going to be uh I just spoke to Mauricio about Mr. Garcia about a week ago and um we're going to probably in June at some point get all the department heads together and say this is what we're doing to go live and
this is what we need to go live and now so we can get prepared because our staff has to learn the system and everything else. So, it's so they were using dual systems. We actually just recently shut down one of the systems that was supporting and so now we're moving forward with that. So, so it's a matter of u of getting us all aligned. We want
to make sure that when we get there, there's still going to be issues and bugs whenever we go live, but we want to try to to um minimize those bugs and frustration to the public. So, we're trying to do this carefully. We could have bought a a canned version um a few years ago and it was quite expensive and
even that has had um challenges too. And we're not disparaging that company, but it's just that we know a lot lot of the municipalities use them, but it is it was probably 10 times the cost of what we did to build this system. And that was an annual fee. It was an annual fee
of over 100 grand a year to to maintain that system. So that's why we Yeah. Or more. I'm sorry. And so so this system, what it cost us to build and then what it's going to cost us monthly is going to be a lot. It's it's we figured over 10 years we were going to save a million
dollars if we built this system as opposed to going to the the subscriptionbased uh can service something around that effect right >> yeah I mean this system most of the departments are using it internally so it is already being used the the next
phase is going to be you know a good example be you know all our permits right now are using the system now everything's being uh collected through the system. Uh the next phase will be so that the resident will be able to just
go online and now fill in everything. So then when it comes to us, everything will be filled in. So no one's going to be typing anything internal. Won't need to do it. We'll have kiosks out at every department um so that they'll be able to do it all themselves as opposed to
keying, you know, our employees keying it all in. Um, we're not there just yet. We're We have to figure out all the kinks that the issues that we're having before we bring it out to the public, you know. So, they're all right now they're internal.
Something's not printing right or you know something to that effect. So, that that's that's kind of where we are right now. and and and even some of the things like I I give you an example like in the health department. One of one of the the main things, one of the drivers we have for this too is that to take some work off the clerk's office is that there's
going to be stuff that's information that's going to be available to the public that was once operable that they could just go in and see that and then they may not have to go to Oprah and it could relieve some stress off of her office with the the 700 plus Opas you've
received this year. Um and hopefully it will and it will be a learning curve. But the other thing like I I will give you an example like say with the health department there are certain items that um we have one of our challenges was dog licenses with the with the state's requirement for dog licenses and how our
system can handle it. We have to work through that. The other issue is um with the health department is vital statistics. There's some things that they will just simply not be able to do through the system because it's a mandate of of the Department of Health and we just cannot circumvent the
Department of Health, copies of death certificates and birth certificates and marriage, things of that nature. They still actually have, you heard from the health director, they still have to type these things. They still use a typewriter and with all this technology we're talking about. So, so that's what
we're looking to to get to. when uh when we started talking about the imple implementation early last year, it was very exciting to hear about the public facing uh capability because it's and the increase in transparency and uh and
the increase in efficiency for employees so they won't have to be doing all this typing and all this other stuff. But obviously the uh the implementation is dragged out. H has uh has that resulted in additional costs for
build out the >> outside of our time. There there hasn't been any extra costs like to the vendor or anything like that but we've spent a tremendous amount of time. So time is money. So there those those costs I
can't document what they would be or anything like that but th those were the costs. Well, one of the benefits too of this program is that is expandable. So, there was an additional cost. What I can share with you is that it was it wasn't it wasn't um very expensive, but it still costs is that we've now started
building a model. We're in the process of building a model for the rent leveling board so that we can start registering all of our um u families and above and make it easier that way. So, we're in the process with them now to get this this u this program or this module in with the rent leveling board
and so that we can keep track because we never had that online capability before. So, those are the things that we're looking at as far as expandability. So, that's very interesting. I don't recall you talking about that before. Uh where what's the source of that information? Is it is it self-reporting or are we
pulling it off of zoning? How are we getting that information? because it's I think a consideration for the problems that we're having down in the valley with trying to fix the the or at least um u remediate somewhat the the parking
problems that we have down there. >> The the initial data is being supported through the tax assessor's office. We're looking at the different properties and we pro provided that information to the company and they're looking to make those breakdowns. What we want to do is similar it's it's going to really be uh kind of mirrored on our merkantile uh
application. So once somebody registers then this thing's going to automatically send out reminders this this software and say hey it's time for you to register. It's time for you to submit in here you know and it's it's going to be a way of helping us monitor and figure
out who's doing what how much the costs are going up. So if if somebody's in compliance with the you know the 2 or 3% increase that's currently permitted under the ordinance that we would be able to monitor those things. So that's what we that was a uh something we thought about after the fact once we
realized once we built the the mercantile license hey we could do this. it wasn't a priority for the company at the time because they were trying to build the other seven platforms, but but understanding that it because they they they helped put that merkantile in for us fairly quick without building the
other system. But now we're we're catching up and and I know that there's been progress made. I don't know exactly where it's at right now, but it they they started building that earlier this year and and we're looking to implement that fairly soon, too. So, >> so is this something that might be able to used uh in in relation to zoning or
perhaps enforcement or or >> planning planning and zoning? Planning and zoning are part of this plan. >> Okay. Because that that I think would help a great deal in certain areas. So, >> yeah. And it's going to continue like when you say like extra cost, there's been a couple of extra little modules
that that we threw in, but as time goes on, we're going to just keep building on it. Anytime we build on going to be a couple extra a little cost on top of that, but we are looking to this is going to be our platform we're going to be using for virtually all licenses and
permits that that we have in the town. >> So, police takes up uh uh pretty close to half of the entire IT budget uh operating budget. So, it went up another 7 and a half% uh the budget uh increase
this year. and the fire department budget went up uh 50% off of a much lower base. Could you just talk a little bit about what the what the spending is in in those two areas uh that caused the increases? And that's that's all I need to
>> Sure. The um but we'll start with the fire department since that's the easiest one. They have a quarterly um uh contractual amount of I could do the math, but I'll look at the Yeah. So, it's it's $13,500
divided by four uh for Pasc Data Services and and they manage any IT. I mean, you could probably speak to more of what it actually is. Um if they need to come out and work on a computer or
>> Well, they they manage it. While I can manage and see every PC in the non-uniform side, I can't do that in the uniform side for sieges uh reasons. The sieges is the you know
state mandates for the police and fire. I I I can't see them. So Pasc sees them wherever they can intervene. they remotely go in. If something needs to be done where a human now needs to go there, then they contact me. We go there
and we and we fix it. But uh Pascac manages the remote connections of uh police and fire. >> So did they just raise they just that's what happened? >> It used to be 2250 per quarter and now
this year is 3375. So Pascat can see the end points but you can't onre fire. >> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> I mean I can go there and see it but remotely I can't remotely see that. I
get a ridiculous amount of notifications when something goes ary. Uh I'll get I'll get a notification but I can't go in and remotely fix or administer it. Uh, but I'll know
if something happens. If if a an alert came out and it was triggered to to me, I'll be able to see that. So, the police uh the police budget went up about $26,500 for this year. Is there any anything other than just inflation of
subscriptions or apps? Um, like I said, part of it was we wanted to allocate more money for extra time for Pascac to replace the employee that we lost and and to give Mr. Garcia some backup if needed. But we
also, you know, we pay for firewalls through PassCA, but they they purchase the firewall and maintain it, but you know, we have to pay for that particular item. Um, so we pay for Microsoft Office for PD through them. We pay for uh what
is that? One drive 100 gig one for per year. We pay for >> um email uh backup services for for their systems. >> We pay rave mobile safety which is our
reverse 911. Um Eastern Communications is around $12,852 a month. That's for um the radios and for dispatch um >> yeah
um what said what else do we have? >> Um Motorola we have uh there's license fees for our radios that we have to pay for Motorola. >> Um uh Versm public safety.
What is that one? Oh, that that's the it's an internal affair program. >> Yeah, I don't I don't need a list of of everything it pays for. I just was wondering why that the seven and a half% increase. That's all I >> Yeah, it's it's it's mostly to to purchase more pass CACAC time. That's that was really the major driver and and
the increase on the cost of Microsoft Office 365 for one year and and the email service >> and Eastern we're spending a lot more money. >> And at the beginning of this, we mentioned it Joe. Everybody up here knows who it Joe is. It's simply a consultant that comes in part time.
Yeah. Who to help uh I don't know primarily with networking. Yeah. >> He's on he's on the the non-uniform side, >> right? That's who it Joe is. So I just if if there's anybody out there listening >> who's the past tech it what it Nick is
pass he doesn't get as >> No, he doesn't. No one gets air time like I do. >> The guy. >> Okay. Thank you. That's that's all I >> Okay. I know Councilwoman Castelino had some questions. >> Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Councilman Koviaak. Um, a lot of my
questions were answered with your thorough um, questioning. U, but just real quick just to go back um, a few seconds ago. Um, the reason why and director, thank you so much. I know you have your hands full uh, uh, taking
things over for the police and fire department just listening in. Is the reason why you don't have access remotely is that like due to security issues or is is that >> just uh sious security issues? Yeah,
they they frown upon that. >> Okay, that's that's what I was kind of figuring there. Um and and to and just to agree with uh uh my my colleague with a little more I appreciate you consolidating everything, but I
appreciate the the conversation with the detail. Maybe next year we could add on a couple other line items cuz you know because they're so stacked. But you know I I understand why and whatnot. My question for you is with the Jney
service you mentioned Pacio and the Omni Transportation uh we've been having dialogue with Mr. Soraldo and and Mr. Tatiniac and the council obviously on looking at a new system for the Jity. Is anything
budgeted in these figures yet? Um I know equipment does have to be done manually. Um has anything been budgeted here for >> changing uh technology for the jity services?
>> So we do pay for PIO um within the I think it's the non-uniform budget that that we pay for the uh vehicle tracking and >> and all the other PIO services. We didn't put anything in operating
um or any sort of increase to the Pacio capability. And if there's a hardware cost that that would probably be capital anyway. So >> I mean if you're willing to put 110 to $120,000 in there. >> Well, there you go. Yeah, we're not putting that. I'm just throwing I'm just out there. Just saying. No, we are
>> I know and I and I know I had asked you about looking at like some kind of uh uh app we're getting on the on the trains with just >> we are looking at that that we're working with the Pasio to get the onboard system and as Mr. Diniac mentioned there is capital included with
the with the readers and the scanners and things of that nature. We are also engaging another company just to see what they have to see if it's something that's a little bit better for us or not. So we we are having conversations with with providers because Pacio is not
the only one out there. So we you know be in our best interest to look at others. Um you know we are we are pleased with Pacio to the to a degree. Um there probably could be some improvements but so we're going to look at another company and see if they can do that or better or decide whether we
want to stay and and it's all going to be cost driven and and reliability driven. So u but there are we will have something for you shortly. Okay. All right. Um, sorry. >> Okay.
>> I start talking and then I can't. >> I'm gonna let somebody else ask questions because I got to get some water. Thank you, >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Um, good evening. Thank you. Thank you for coming here today. Um, I do have a question about your your data processing coordinator. You had this employee as a
part-timer. >> Yes. >> For 144. That's that's what the salary was. >> Yes. And now he's full-time at 82711. >> The 144 is is prorated. So it wasn't
like it would have been 144 for the year. >> Understand? Yeah, >> understand. >> Just want to make that clear. >> That's a huge salary for somebody who you mentioned is just starting out in this field, just graduated high school. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. College.
College. He was a West Orange resident, but he was a West Orange. Was at West Orange High School. >> Okay. >> He graduated here. He's graduating college next week. >> Okay. I wrote down high school graduate. Okay. >> No, I he was when you said it, I I I
made a mental note. I make sure I clear that up because I knew that. >> No, he he is in college. Yes. Next week. Yes. >> Okay. It's still a a very nice salary with full benefits. How is that salary arrived at? do not want to lose him by
any stretch. He is sought after. Um any salary we give him is welld deserved. But he's he is fantastic. He's absolutely f I can't rave enough about him. >> Okay. Was you mentioned that he's just
handling basic issues >> today. Today he is. >> Okay. So um can he take over the part of the police and fire? Can he so that you can focus on what you've always done and
he can >> he will be >> pull that out. >> Okay. >> He absolutely will be. Yeah. We're He is going to be a close ally. He will anything within I'm going to say within the next three years anything that I know he is going
to know. Correct. >> We are documenting everything. the succession planning. I don't plan on being here forever. My succession planning is him. >> Okay. And and was there any transition to help you get up to speed before the
other employee left in in the fire and police? >> There was not a lot. >> Okay. And may I ask the business administrator why there wasn't a lot of overlap at that point? So that so that >> there was an employee that was looking
to replace him. When that time came, we saw that he probably wasn't ready for it. So there was some transitioning that was happening to a different a different
individual that we I think mutually decided is probably not the best. >> So when you have problems, where do you go? >> I go to Pascan. Okay. And and is that a steady is that a steady rate no matter how many questions?
>> So we we we are allotted a certain number of hours every month for our our contractually um our contractual monthly rate and then if we need them to come out for some sort of specific project we have to buy
hours in in like bulk amounts like 15 hours or 20 hours. I can't remember exactly the minimum it said in the contract, but Pasc has worked with the township for a long time. So, they're >> they're not going to they're not going to be like no friends, a lawyer, and uh
pick up the phone and and and start billing. Um you know, we maintain an excellent relationship with Pascal, but if we said, "Hey, sorry for popping peas here. um if you we need you to come out and and do a project if it's going to be beyond
that allotted number of hours they're going to charge us. So, and that and that's why we did budget a little bit more in PD um be to plan for that cuz I I didn't know you know how much you were going to be able to to learn in the
transition because there is just so much right >> and so how much we would have to rely on pass CAC in year one while Mauricio Mr. Garcia learns everything. So, >> okay. So, um I do also honestly find this it's it's uh not clear to the
public or to me what's in each of these categories. And I don't like junk drawers, which is the the first one. Um so, can you explain in the first one? I mean, what's all in that that caused a $17,000
increase? >> This is for our our our general. >> Yeah. And and also next year, I mean, I would like to have it this year. Honestly, I would really like you to to bring this back so that we can see this so that next year we have the right categories. I would like to see in each
category office expenses, outside vendor expenses, software in each in each one or however you you know whatever category you create. But this is you know create the the it for police and then let's see what's in there so that
we know what software we need every year. >> Understood. Is it possible to to fix this up so that we can see this better? >> If you knew what software was in there, would that change your decision though?
It would it would give me the information that I know how much it's costing and so that I anticipate that next year we need we need to pay for PASAC or whatever whatever other service we're having or I'm sure that these are
not the only services that sometimes you can go out and find another service for it that might be more reasonable. You're not locked into these forever, are you? >> Are these the only options? We're locked in as long as we have a contract with them. I can't go to another. >> Right.
>> Right. But I mean, we know that this is the service. >> Correct. >> If you could say some sort of detail of what this does like >> passac and then and then give us a description so that we know and and I would like to know when these contracts come up in advance, frankly. But um so
can you explain in the in the IT 2305 why is there an increase of 17,000? >> So we we budgeted more for the the licenses for Microsoft because we had to renew the contract for June or July. >> Yeah,
>> it's July I think >> from the capital to >> right >> operating. So our previous the previous way we paid for office 365 email um the one drive storage teams for certain
people was they did a capital they they treated as a capital expense five years ago. Well was it five years ago or three years ago? Five years ago it's up for renewal now. We can't treat it as a capital expense. It's not a capital expense. It's an operating
expense. So, we put in we we put in the amount that we needed to be able to pay the whatever was 165 for Office 365 and then the,000 for the one drive. So,
we're paying it all up front in July so that we can get the benefit of a discount versus paying monthly or paying what was the other option? Quarterly. >> Yeah, it was uh I believe it's quarterly. I mean we obviously have the cash flow to to pay
that in in one lump sum and that gives us the greatest discount. >> So >> and that's a and that's a yearly expense >> that that is a yearly expense. So we'll come back in 2027. >> So are you saying the difference is is that this was moved from capital budget into an operating expense.
>> It was previously paid for with capital. Microsoft their business model now is totally a subscription. you pay every single year and the the price will change every single year. >> We just happened to hit at the end of
year five. >> Was there anything else or how much how much is the Microsoft licensing? >> It's like 17 something in total. >> Yeah, >> it's 16 something for Office 365 another,000 for one drive
and then I don't know we have how many accounts with teams? Three, four, four. I I don't know the team's cost. That's a negligible amount. But >> but that that that's it. It it still is the Office 365 license, but there are
different levels of the license. So it's still an Office 365 license, but there are like three or four people that have teams included into that. So it's just >> so they can host meetings and all that. >> All right. >> I I don't have that. I won't take too much more time, but I I do want to ask
on uh department code 2306. What is the real um paid or charge to date and what has it been used for? >> Yes. So, that's that's the one we mentioned. >> Um we we only have some Zoom meeting
charges for that one right now. Um but we're going to have our munic. And >> how much is municip? What is it annually? 60 40 something and then we have Fauvionics
projects that we plan for here. >> And Fobionics is >> so fionics we have we have it in account 2309 for the annual phobionics charge. We're planning on doing UCC uh the uniform construction code a fauionics
project which I think is around $20,000. We were going to charge to here. Okay, >> that's that's a one-time implementation. So, as we we drop off um hard copy paper with Fauvionics, they go ahead and copy
it, scan it, and index it >> and then it just gets added to the the annual charge. Okay, this would be for a one-time project. And just to clarify what phobionics is so for the public that they understand phobionics is a record management system for it's the only system that I'm aware of right now
in the state that's recognized by the department of community affairs to um um scan our systems as we mentioned we we're trying to become a paperless um organization and what we did back in 2023 is we scanned in all the building
department planning and zoning and health and maybe one other I'm missing um into the system. So from 1940 to present so everything's accessible and it's it's really one giant to describe as one giant filing cabinet system. So
so if uh we get an Oprah request our clerk's office going has access to it now as well. We get an Opra Oprah request and we say 66 Main Street. Any single drawer that had 66 Main Street in whatever department, all that stuff gets scattered into one spot. And that's how
we're able for efficiencies to be able to it keeps it helps our staff not have to go searching and looking through all those documents and things of that nature. In particular, the building and planning is only because some of the stuff is so ancient and some things we have to keep permanent. and and the
Department of Community Affairs said that they only recognize them because they they've developed a system where what we have to do is maintain a raised seal for authenticity of the original document. And this is the only system as of right now that is is is permissible
under uh the DCA guidelines. And that's what we've we've done. And it and it's really helped. it cleaned up a lot of our files and it and it's it's made the accessibility for our open requests so much better. So that's that's the system I just want to describe so when people they don't understand what it is
>> and it's it's it's been a godsend and we're now looking to up uh to renew some of those files the ones 2023 to 25 with the with the building department and we're going to be looking to you utilize the UCCC money. Correct John?
>> No. So, the UCCC project comes out of >> out of 2306 and I kept it separate because I didn't want it to be with the annual fee because it's it's it's a non-recurring project that that 2306. >> The problem is we've done a lot of these
things in the past through capital. Um, so it really kept the IT budgets artificially lower than they should have been. Um, so we're just we're recording these properly as operating expenses. Okay. So is there's another it's this
this um item includes zoom meetings, munic. Yes. >> Yes. And and did you say UC? >> No, the Fauvionics project is for the uniform construction code. Yes. Thank you. So that cost comes to um just
slightly over $60,000, but you're requesting 75. >> Is there room to reduce this? I >> since these are fixed costs >> I I think you could I thank you. >> Well, bless you. >> Bless you.
>> Um so that's where I would see a 14,000. It's you it's an additional 15,000 but if we could reduce it 14 just to give you a little >> little space right there. >> Sure. >> Um so I'd like to suggest to reduce that that one item by by 14.
>> I I think we abs that work. >> Okay. Okay. So, I'll make a motion. >> I'll second. I got to ask a question. >> That that is on Did my colleague have a question before we go? >> Oh, okay. 66 does have a question.
It's It's 236 and it was 14,000. >> So, so here's my question for uh uh Mr. Garcia. the um do have we received any grant money for any of these programs
not just in this category but also with the uh police and fire for any any of these IT services >> for the I know through the years we have received grants have any of it applied to any of these costs uh
>> for the non-uniforms I have not I cannot say if the uniform services have I I don't know I wasn't part of that. >> Okay. I'm just wondering because if some of these anything on this page was paid for with any grant money, um does it,
you know, is there room there to to cut anywhere? But that's, you know, Mr. Datiniac could >> Yeah. So, so we don't have anything that that we've gotten recently that pays for any of these things. We have something that we had a grant for that now we pay for out of the budget. That's Arbor Pro.
So, we did get a D grant a few years ago um to do the tree uh um inventory and Arbor Pro was included, but now we we pick up Arbor Pro. Um I think it's within non-uniform.
Um but no, we don't we don't have anything that a grant could replace an operating expense. >> Okay. and and I don't have a problem with increasing the line items where they're coming out instead of being paid for by capital because that helps with
our uh debt service plan. So that's it. Those are my comments. Yeah, I it's just it's also we want to appropriately categorize our expenses and I know I mean for me it's great if I can
capitalize something because obviously we don't take the hit over one year but at at the same time you know I don't want to run a foul of uh any of the DLGS standards in terms of capitalized items. So, you know, we make sure that if it's
truly an operating expense, we're we're going to put it in the operating budget and if it's a true capital expense, it's going to go in a capital >> council. >> Okay. Thank you. I'm done. >> Thank you. Um, Councilwoman, >> thank you. >> So, to echo my colleagues,
you're still discussing. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> Well, my this isn't in reference to the motion. >> Let's take a vote. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, yes.
>> Councilwoman Williams, Council President Scarpa, yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. Go ahead, Councilwoman. >> Thank you. I'm just going to request something a little different. Um, we've spent probably a little bit over an hour or close to an hour discussing the
subcategories in this budget. And a lot of that discussion is because we don't really understand what is going into the line items. So I would just request that before we approve this, we get some subcategories and we know what goes into
the buckets because some of the things I recognized, but many of them I did not. And I I think if we're going to monitor, be able to move forward, compare, um we should really understand exactly what these line items are paying for.
>> And if you could send us your narrative, that would help, too. >> Yeah, I think that's fair. >> I had asked I had asked for that. >> Okay. >> Well, I'm I'm asking as well, so I think
that's two of us asking for the same thing. >> I think it's important that we all understand it. We're all asking for the same thing. We just need clarity and a description of what's going and coming in and out of these line items. And I would like to have that before I vote on this budget.
>> Okay. >> So, but can we still do my motion? >> Your motion? >> You already did. >> Yeah, we did. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. I just wanted to know if it was still relevant because we're now pulling this. Okay. No, we're >> No, no, no. You're not pulling. You're just not
There's a lot of pages that we're not >> There's no consent. >> Are you consenting on the salary? >> I can consent. >> Well, I would an IT job coming out of college is about $80,000 plus job. So, I'm very confident with that salary.
>> I just watched something on the news yesterday talking about IT graduates um coming right out of college and how in demand they are. Mhm. >> Um, so I'm very clear >> and we do not want to lose this. >> I would approve. >> I'm I'm I move that we accept the salary.
>> No, we appreciate that because he he is he's a he's a diamond in the rough. He is going to be >> hopefully part of our future here. >> Yeah. Consent. >> Okay. My question is is everyone consenting otherwise I have >> the first page >> to the salary. >> The salary consent.
>> Okay. All of you are counciloman Ruden. Are you? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank >> and set. >> Thank you, Michelle. >> Thanks, Michelle. >> Thank you. >> Go ahead. Sorry. >> That's okay.
>> Thank you. >> FYI, if I don't answer, it's cuz I went to go get water. I'm having a choking fit. So, I'll be >> feel better. >> Good night. Thank you. Thank you, Mara. We President, it's 5:42. Not that we need to take a break, but if we're going
to be bringing up Director Johnson, it may be a little while. I don't know. It's up to you. We could go a little while and then take a break if I'd like to keep going. If everybody's just >> putting it out there, >> let's move it along. >> Okay. >> Welcome. You didn't tell me.
Do >> we have a corrected budget? >> Do we have a corrected budget? >> Mr. Diniac had copies. >> S Okay, >> here's the correct. Oh, you don't need it. Do you need it? The corrected budget
was it? >> No, I have >> Councilman, did you want me to? >> Yeah, if you could do that, that would be great. Thank you. Yeah. >> Excuse me, madam clerk. You can somebody email me that if it's been changed since the from the this afternoon?
>> Can you email this? >> Yes, I'll I'll email it to you, Councilwoman. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Change. I'm gonna go slow. Yeah, I'm going to open up the other one online and then just sort of go back and
forth. So, Council President, I'd like to introduce for the first time as the director of recreation, he while M director Johnson did present last year um um during the 25 budget hearing, this is his first time actually presenting
his budget that he and we apologize that we understood we we changed this um a little bit because he was supposed to be here a couple weeks ago. The director looked at it and he realized that there was should be some cuts. He and his staff went through this with Mr. Iniac and I about a week or so ago and he's
actually presenting a a less amount which I'm very happy for for everyone and I appreciate him uh putting this together in his due diligence. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce director John. >> Congratulations and welcome. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> I do feel a little unprepared because Mr. Garcia had a great eloquent opening statement and I do not. So uh you know now I know talking to the mic. I know for next year that you know that's part of the uh >> well you know it's easy just give us an overview of what your department does. >> So basically you know recreation
department we're a year round entity. Some people think we're just summer but it's it's all year round with with sports. Um and we're really also making great strides now into non sport programming. We're doing STEM classes. Uh we just introduced craft
classes. Uh Beyblades is a big thing. A lot of kids like play Beyblades. Yeah. >> Um yeah. And um I also uh have someone working on, we haven't launched it yet, but it's coming soon. Scrapbooking. >> Um so we're just trying to throw things out there to the community that might be interested because, you know, recreation
is more than just go play dports. There's other activities, other ways to have recreation. So we're trying to be all-encompassing in that regards. And then we also have some of the fine arts stuff. We have the community band that we're involved with. Uh we do partner with OSBback as well. um you know and you know we also try to have programming
throughout the year um when schools are closed so people have something to do because sometimes the school calendar doesn't match up with the work calendar so we try to give recreation outlets for people there. Um most recently spring break we had laser tag and Nerf uh Nerf battles and we had a ton of kids there
and they just basically ran around for three hours went home went to sleep so the parents were happy with us. Um, and you know, we're also while we do the traditional sports, we are responsive to uh what we get from the feedback we get from the public. I I'm happy to say we just finished it up last week. We had a
kindergarten through third grade field hockey program. Uh, this was brought to me by a resident said, "Let's let's give it a shot." And we had 20 kindergarten through third grade girls playing field hockey once a week uh at OKConor and now we're expanding into the summer and possibly looking to maybe have a team.
So, we're not just sticking with traditional sports. We're being responsive to what needs and recreation outlets that we want to see from the community. So, uh we're just a forever evolving department. >> The mayor's program also the mayor's program. Uh the mayor's program gifted.
Um we support that. They mostly uh interact with older adults. They have 13 parties throughout the year plus a summer camp. Uh and really it's a uh great recreational outlet for those that sometimes get left behind unfortunately. And uh also with that we've started
using Stag Fieldhouse as a social club for them. So on Mondays, I believe it's every other Monday. I'm not exactly sure off top of my head, but they go to Stag and they all get together and they just socialize and they do a little project. Uh we have a TV there, sometimes they watch videos and it's just an outlet for
them to go out, interact with each other, be part of the community and not be stuck at home. So, like we're really proud of that program. We're really proud of the parties where they all come together, you know, they see each other, they look forward to it. So, it's just uh another great recreational outlet that is outside what people think of a traditional recreation.
>> Thanks, Edward. >> That was great. >> So, we're going to start on page 172. Um it's 172 and 173. This is the um recreation department's salary and wage calculation.
Um, so I'm going to just scroll down to 173 uh to give um sort of the year-over-year comparison. Um, so for 2026 compared to the 2025 budget, we have a
decrease uh of $21,162.74 or 2.77% versus budget. um the base salary increases, but our our hourly um pay has the budgeted
amount has decreased. And we tried to do a much better job this year of really and I know we don't have names up on on the uh board here, but you do have the specific employees um in in relation to the part- timerrs
because we had sort of a giant part-time line last year. I think it was like 200 something,000. Um, we did try to break out the wreck leaders and budgeted amounts sort of based on hours that were worked in 2025.
Um, because again, these are not salary even though we say it's it's base salary. These are budgeted amounts for these hourly employees that we think they're going to work for the year. Um, we also have and and I think it's important to point out, we do have some
laborers that are allocated to the recreation department from DPMW. Um, these laborers have been charged to recreation in the past. Um, the reasoning behind that, I'm not entirely sure. Um but this is a sort of historic
allocation for these two uh three excuse me three employees. Um they are part of DPW but they are allocated to recreation. So they are listed on the DPW page with their total salary again
zeroed out with a note that says allocated to recreation and we are showing them here. So they are part of that base salary budget. Um just just just to point that out. So >> yes, go ahead.
>> Okay. Is there any more presentation? >> Um no, that's >> unless you want to talk about additional seasonal um >> the additional seasonal is just you summertime help that we bring in >> um you know people to run like programs
in the park, stuff like that. Um, basically anything that's college kids level. Uh, cuz we do try to do additional programming in the summer to keep kids busy. While we don't have a traditional summer camp, we do try to increase something to give kids activities in the summer so they're not sitting at home on the tablet. The stuff
we really don't want them to do because unfortunately just going outside and playing anymore doesn't exist. >> Okay. So, um, thank you so much. I just want to know how how does one find out about these new offerings from the recreation department?
>> We most do most of our communications through community pass um which is our main registration hub but also uh the rec newsletter has uh morphed into something called the recreation roundup and we send that out at the first of every month through our database and community pass and for all those that have signed up through our newsletter
through um west.org And then also u what's I've really been a concerted effort on now is to use our website more and take these event flyers and post them on there. So there's a section on the website that says upcoming programs and we're putting those flyers in there now because uh it
is hard to reach people and share this information. So >> you know the monthly newsletter is the best thing that goes out every month guaranteed and has those things in there and then we do send spend uh sorry send out updates as needed through community pass but a lot of it is electronic messaging. And are are your programs
also being advertised on the West Orange um website >> in the recreation department? >> In the recreation but but not not on the main >> some does make it to the front page. Um >> most bigger events but programs not so much but we are making an effort now because I've I've kind of started to
discover flyers work a little better than blocks of text. >> Okay. So I just want to go through some of this with you. Um, you have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, nine part-time recreational leaders.
>> And I compared each salary from last year to this year and the yearly and what they're what they've made year to date. And I think there's a little room in here to to make make a little change.
The difference between last year's and this year's is $15,000. So, I was wondering if you could if you would be willing to I'm not going to break it down for each of these employees because you know how you're using them, but to bring it down
maybe 8,000. >> These these nine employees that you list, they're they're basically our year- round employees. Um, some of them are the park security guys are going out at night, making sure the parks are safe, making sure they're clean. Um, some of them are uh the cast working with Toby Catch for the events that are
up there. Uh, one of them is our special events coordinator. Um, so I think most I mean correct if I'm wrong, most of those salaries there kind of reflects what they have worked. I mean last year I know was a big pile of money. So like those nine people those are people that are with us all year round and that
should kind of match up with the exception of maybe one being our special events coordinator being that she did not work a full year last year. there is a 16% increase from last year. So maybe you can can work with, you know, the council a little bit on some sort of
decrease. Maybe reduce it by seven 7.5 so that the increase is only, you know, is half of that amount. >> We're talking the hourly number. >> The diff. Yes. The difference from last year. >> Yeah. We probably do it since that
30,000 is unidentified people that we kind of bring in as as needed. We probably make an adjustment of that number. >> You're talking about the summer, >> the additional seasonal employees. We say summer because that's the bulk of it, but is it is year round as we need people for
>> So you're programs. >> Okay. So I I just want to kind of keep keep the the bucket separate if you don't mind. >> So I I just want to look at this and then we'll look at at the camp. in this there is there's a there's a 16% jump. So, I'm just trying to to rein that in
just a little bit without affecting your programming. I know that you need them, but I mean, if we're comparing even, you know, uh the first recreational leader has has not made has not earned that much year to date and um would probably
be on track with earning what that person earned last year rather than what you've projected it out to be this year. And the same for each category. >> Excuse me, council. I'm a little confused where where are you talking about just the part-time
>> I'm talking I'm talking about page 172 all of the part-time recreational leaders they've allocated 16% more in that category so I'm not asking for a big cut um and I would >> so 7500 is what we're looking >> 7500 would be fine
>> we'll find a way to make that work yes >> okay thank you so much so I make a motion on that to to cut it's for that whole category, Madame Clerk. So, >> hourly pay >> hourly pay >> for the part-time workers
>> to to reduce that by um 7,500. >> I'll second. >> Is there any discussion? >> Yeah. Uh so the hourly pay are all the part-time So here's my question for you.
Um uh Mr. Johnson, the pool is that are we going to get a separate budget for the pool or any >> Yeah, that's a totally separate budget separate day. Yeah. >> So the so any of these wreck department they they don't they're not they're not
pool u staff. Okay. >> No. >> Okay. So this is all your camps, your programs all year long. the additional support staff, basically everything we needed because you know, numbers do go up in the summer for our programs. >> Yeah.
>> And you know, we still have an office of staff, so I can't just send myself out into the field. >> Yeah, I I know that. I know that. All right. All right. I'm uh I'm good. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Counciloman. >> Um yeah, thank you. I um had a brief
conversation with Mr. Johnson and reviewed just some of the uh overall high level information regarding his budget. Um again, parks and recreation, this is for our children, our families. Um programming is something that we
really don't try to impact financially. I think he's done a tremendous job in creating um an actual budget where uh we can see the need and the direct impact on our residents. I'm not comfortable
even with just the $7,500. Um he's done a tremendous job already just reducing where he thought he could make cuts. So I'm comfortable with leaving that line item where it is. >> Any other comments before we take the vote?
>> Uh Councilman Castelina. >> Yeah. So I I have to agree because you're going to see cuts. He's going to go over this list line by line on the other pages where he did make substantial reductions
and um I mean if you want to snip away a 2500 I would do that but I think 7500 is way too much to be to be this with the programming. I mean like I said the middle the middle he's going to be
expand. Can you talk a little bit about these middle school programs and and what everybody's looking for? You I know the schools have been after you to I know we can't do a traditional middle school sports program, but can you talk um for a second on how um you know,
you're trying to work with the schools um in in regards to our middle schoolers and the offerings there, >> right? Mr. Goldman had some questions along those lines to be answered. You know, as someone who came up through West Orange, went to Edison, went to
high school high school athlet stuff. You know, I know the value of middle school sports, and they are certainly going to be missed, but the one difference from my time and now is that a lot of those middle school sports are duplicated. We have travel basketball, we have travel lacrosse, there's soccer,
there's football. These programs are being offered and majority of the kids that are playing middle school sports for the schools are the same ones that are in our travel programs. And these kids are going a school game, their travel game, finding time to do homework, and then starting the school
day the next day. So from the theater point of view, as a theater for our high school to make sure our best athletes are staying here, there is no real impact. But we are not going to duplicate the middle school sports where we're going to have after school busing. We can't do that. As was mentioned
previously, busing, all that stuff is just not going to happen. We do have a functioning working model between the recreation department, PAL and the mountain top league which is offering travel level sports for the middle schools uh which are directly feeding athletes to our high school. Now the one
thing I you know we have discussed about doing is that there is a need for after school programming. There's a need for the kids that you know have nothing else to do and we are exploring how to do that with the board of education but those programs will be ones that are going to basically be uh zero programs.
whatever it costs to run the program, that fee is going to be >> passed on, >> passed on to the participants. >> Great. >> And we're not talking nothing extravagant. We're just talking a nominal fee to basically have somebody there to supervise, make sure everybody's safe, you know, and let the kids have an activity, um, you know,
whiffle ball or, you know, threeon-ree basketball. Just think it off the top of my head. So, we are looking to create some additional programming to give kids an opportunity to play that maybe aren't travel level players. And along those lines, there also is in-house programming for all these folks. So, these kids are going to have somewhere to play, but it's just not going to be
after school anymore. We're just going to try and fill that out with intramural type level programming. >> Thank you. >> Yes, Councilman Koviaak. >> Uh, Mr. Johnson is and has been for many years not only are an articulate
uh uh uh advocate for the programs for uh not only the adults but also the kids. But I just want to put something in perspective as we're going forward. The mayor proposed a $4.15 million increase
in uh our taxes this year. That's a 6.3% increase. Now, just to start with, we've got like an $105 million budget. About twothirds of that we cannot touch because of federal and state laws, labor contracts, and mandates. We cut more
than $3 million last year and took a an increase a proposed increase of almost 7% to just over 1%. But it's going to be a lot harder this year. And I've said several times before, all of these numbers mean that if we're going to get
this budget lower and get the tax increase lower, we're going to have to prioritize and make difficult decisions. So, this this may be uh this may be one of them. And uh I hope people understand
what we're doing even though it's may be hitting uh close to home for a lot of people. >> Yeah, that's a good point given that we've only we don't even have a quarter of a million dollars out of one, two, and three. So, you know, we're not going to be able to get this down with, you know, few thousand dollars here and
there. We have to look at some major cuts. Are we ready to vote? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> uh, for the 7500, no. But I'll do another deduction.
>> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> Okay, the motion carries. >> Okay. Sure. >> So I I wanted to move over to to the
camp section. That's a that's a big number that doesn't >> additional seasonal. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, >> let's approve the pages that we've already done before we move to another page. >> We're still on page 173. It's still part of the summer those hours.
Uh, I would like to ask I I don't understand there these these workers are are now in the recck department. >> No, they they've always been charged there. Um, is is what we figured out. Yeah. So, I think Edwin could probably
speak to >> Are theying overtime? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, what can we It seems like a a significant amount of overtime. What can we do to curtail the overtime? The overtime is for these workers, >> some of it. Yeah,
>> because the other workers are mostly um non-union and >> yeah, actually probably the majority, but I think you'd only have one other employee that might a lot of overtime. Is there >> those three DPWs that you know they are probably working out of the garage on
110 Franklin Avenue. They're doing parks and stuff, but they are still DPW guys, >> right? >> So emergencies, snow, all that stuff, they get called out. So that's that's their overtime. Um there still is I mean very significantly less amount of over time that's coming out of this department for the people
that are directly recreational or bullish. There's only two individuals there. Um you know one of which will incur over time and then that's it. >> Wait there there I'm sorry two >> three name the three names on the the bottom of the sheet >> right >> those are you know while they're listed
labor parks and wreck and maintenance worker one grounds they are DPW employees in terms of their direct supervision. So when they're earning overtime for those services that you just mentioned, it's not for DPW. It's not for Wreck, it's for DPW.
>> Most most of it is. I mean, they do work our special events, but majority majority of the overtime is for DPW activities. >> Is there some other way to split this up so that it's not coming out of wreck? And is there any other way to curtail the overtime?
Um, I mean the overtime occurs because of snow events, storm events, or like Edwin said, if they're working a special event. So, you know, they it's it's different than like police and fire where it's it's very difficult to to
stop overtime. It's a little easier with DPW, but you know, when you need them out there plowing, they're going to be plowing. when you need them out there clearing debris or water mane break or you know what we just had a >> well that >> the street fell apart the other day.
Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. That I understand but I mean it's a it's a lot and it doesn't seem like it's at all most of it is not related to wreck. >> Right. So it's either going to come out of wreck or it's it's going to come out of DPW. But I I guess in the past, I
don't know when these gentlemen were >> Can I give some history to this? >> Yeah, they were under the supervision of the rec director. So >> yeah, they've bounced in and out of the budget. I couldn't really give you an accurate answer. >> Councilwoman Castelino had something too
she wanted to say. Councilwoman, >> thank you, Council President. And I sorry to interrupt, but save on the time on the conversation. So I'd asked this many many years ago and this the the answer that I received many years ago is
that um this way the certain individuals report to the wreck and for you know for as far as their work for that day and for you know their work orders and this is the way it's always been done. Not to say that they can't be under DPW
budget-wise, but they separated out for that purpose. Um although the wreck would, you know, be charged for the other task that those employees would be doing, but primarily they uh work for the parks and
recreation. Um it's just the way they've organized in the past. Not to say that that can't change, but that was the answer I was told uh many many years ago. >> Are you finished, Councilwoman? >> Yes, I'm done with that, but I have
another comment after Councilwoman's done. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. So, um in in 20 2025, we budgeted 7,000 for overtime. I know we had snow, a lot of snow. >> So, where are we actually in terms of
expenditure? not for for 2026. I think for just the true recreation employees, it's 1,526. So if you don't include the the three DPW, it's 1526. And how much for DPW
that's in there? >> Cuz I can't see the names right now. I can't I I I >> cuz I I just want to know. I mean, that's a that's a huge huge jump. And and if we're beyond the snow, >> um maybe there's you this is this has
gone up fivefold. >> 400. >> Well, we charged 32,000 last year. No, I know. That's what I'm saying. The 1,526 is only your wreck people, but right >> those three individuals
have obviously incurred overtime. >> Well, is that a real figure? I mean, you don't know because you can't look them up what where we really are in overtime. And how much how much real overtime have has
>> just recreation is is 1,000. >> No, I understand that. I understand that. If we're looking at the total, what have we actually spent? I don't have the names on here either. Then >> there's a name.
There's a name. Would it not make sense just to move the overtime over to DPW and just reduce um what we have here? >> Do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Can we do that? I think that makes
more logic. So maybe if only$7,000, but does the $7,000 request from the budget in 2025, did that include DPW or just parks and wreck? >> Just parks and wreck. >> So could we maintain that line item steady and then move the balance over to
DPW? Would everyone be comfortable with that? >> You said we want to really look at ref. Yeah, I would like to know exactly what was spent before we move the additional 30 34,000 30 335 over. >> So if that's not something that they can
actually produce immediately, can we just um put that as a note? >> 27,000 for DDW. >> Okay. So >> that's that's the overtime that's been spent on those three individuals. 27,000. So, um I I agree that we should make
this overtime reflective of what the wreck department actually uses and move the rest over. >> Yeah, we want actual costs wherever possible. >> So, we know what what's going on. Okay. So, do do we need to make a motion to do that? Okay.
>> Just just take one put to another. >> Okay. So, I'd like to um reduce I guess the overtime to I'm not sure what you need. Do you need 4,000?
>> No, 7,000 about right cuz you're this individual we still have Fourth of July. We still have all of our special events left. He's also heavily involved in the pool. Um so there's going to be incidents that occur that are going to require some more than a young adult can handle. So
>> So reduce that to 7,000. >> I'll second that. Is that a motion? >> Yes. >> I second that motion to reduce that line to 7,000 for overtime. >> Okay. So, the line is >> however, let's let's fix that motion
because again, that's going to require us to have four votes to move it back to DPW. So, let's do that the way we've been moving money so that it doesn't have to have the four votes. Let's just move the 28,000 to DPW and reduce the
line by >> 7. Councilwoman Castelino has a finished. >> Okay. So, so I'm just you're you're talking eight. Well, I'm seeing here. So, it's 30 minus 8 is 22. >> So, so you're going to move 22 over, not
28, right? >> Well, we're just going to reduce 25. >> Yeah, we're going to reduce it to seven. Again, we don't necessarily have to say what we're reducing it to. As long as we're giving the finance team and the clerk what we want it to be. They can
figure out the math. So, we don't have to say reduce it by we're just reducing it to 7,000 and whatever needs to be transferred over will be transferred over. >> So, okay. >> Repeating my motion is that my motion is
to reduce the line item. Wait, sorry. Stop. >> Well, well, wait, wait. So, but just here's here's my question though, real quick. >> She made the motion. >> Her motion doesn't second.
>> So, I'm going to resend that because or either amend because I don't want us to not be able to move the money. >> Second motion. We need >> Okay. So, as I understand it, we have a motion by council councilwoman Ruden. A
second now by council president Scarpa. >> She motion and then we had a second by councilwoman Williams. >> Was she rescending? >> She's rescending and I >> Okay. Okay. >> And then council council president jumped in with another motion. So you
have to slow down please. >> So now councilwoman Williams is rescending >> and I would >> Yes. Council President Scarpa is adding her second. What's the motion? And now if I understand, Councilwoman, >> yeah, let her repeat her motion.
>> So So my mo can we do this in two motions? Can Can we achieve what Councilwoman Williams wants? >> Let's let's let's do this. Let's do this. Do Do I understand your motion to be to reduce this to $7,000 and transfer $23,000 >> the rem the remainder to to Department
of Public >> 28. >> That's how I understand your motion. Is that correct? Yes, that's my second. I will second that, but I was trying to change it so that we were doing it >> the right way. >> Thank you for clarifying. >> You just count by it's an account the
overtime account. So, um by 7,000 and >> and move it >> 28,000 28 >> only one motion >> to what >> to >> page 126 DPW >> DPW >> SNW >> is it 28,000 or 23,000?
>> 28. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that all that did was clean up the books. It didn't really >> It did. >> Yeah. It didn't change the bottom. >> Page 126.
>> Do you want still? >> I'm just one more. >> We have to do the motion. >> So, that was Councilwoman Ruden and Councilwoman Lily. Is that correct? >> So, yeah. So now we have to do the motion >> and then you still have >> Yes. Say thank you. All right. All
right. So now discuss. Sorry about that. >> I don't have anything to discuss here. But we pass I have a I have to ask. >> All right. Let's vote on that. >> We vote by consent. >> No. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes.
>> Councilman Koviaak. Yes. Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. Yes. >> Council President Scarfa. Yes. The motion carried. >> Okay. I think Councilwoman Ruden still has >> So I I want to I want to get more information on the additional season >> and what exactly you have needed in the
past and what you anticipate spending this year. >> We hire additional office support staff um because we need coverage and also and we see in the summer just people out in the parks there's a lot more foot traffic so we do need people to assist there. the phone rings a lot more. And
then we also use those seasonal people for uh programs that we put on in the park. Um like we've tried pickle ball in the park before and you know sometimes in the summer when you have people you know running programs in the park in the middle of the day. People don't always understand that
there's a program going on and they got to see the space. We have supervisors there to check people in uh make sure those people are registered for the program. So we use a lot more uh like floaters and also support staff that we don't necessarily need in the colder months when everything's pretty much status quo.
>> So how many hours do you actually need? >> Hours? That's a it's a tough question. Um generally for office support staff we try to hire bring in people about half a day. So it's you know 20 hours total just to cover phones and everything else
cuz on the normal we're a small staff. there's three of us in that building and you'd be surprised how quickly three phone calls come in once or somebody comes in has questions um or you're spending time with a new resident. You know, this time of year we're taking people on tours of facilities. Um so,
you know, that's just for office support staff and then everything else is based upon programming, >> okay? >> Because we, you know, we we do need people at our programs just to ensure people registered, especially the ones that were charging registration fee. And more importantly, you know, everybody that register signs a waiver. And if we
have somebody participate in a program that didn't sign a waiver and god forbid something happens, we're in trouble. >> Right. So these are hourly hourly. Yes. >> Just comparing it to the other hourlys that you have. The highest paid hourly was $20 an hour.
>> And is that the same for here? >> Yeah. Yeah. We don't see that. >> So that would be 1500 hours. That's why I'm asking you. >> Well, it's a year. It's year round. I'm just saying about the summer now. >> No, I'm talking about just for the summer. it would be 50. >> Well, there's additional seasons all year round, not just summer. It's seasonal in terms of we hire people for the fall, the summer, you know, but most
of the bulk is in the summer season, but we do hire people, you know, and if we get people that come in and it's something we're considering now, we have people coming in that are just willing to focus on cleaning up the parks, we'll we'll do that. Um, it's basically trying to to reduce some of the burden on our staff
and let them focus on other tasks that pop up as we get into our busier time of year. But it's it's a year- round seasonal year round. >> Okay. So, how much did you spend on season seasonal last year? >> I don't know. >> I don't I don't know. Last year was a big pot of of money. >> Yes.
>> Um and a lot of times also to additional seasonal um we do use that for staff that we hire for our special events, you know, for Halloween, >> um spring fling, etc. So, it's it varies, >> but we we have budgets for Halloween as well.
>> That's for the production of the event. Doesn't necessarily cover the staff. That's the one thing about recreation here is that we could probably go a lot further in tidying up this budget. I know you just kind talked about the IT budget being very sparse. Um, ours is very voluminous
and we could probably a lot of these line items tie into each other. Um, and we've done that to kind of successfully run our program is that how we put on the best thing and maybe we have to pick these production of the event down the special event line, but then for the staffing use seasonal people that we
have on the books where you have Halloween, we have our uh teachers convention programming and we have the holiday events. We hire that person for the fall season. So, I think this is a little bit difficult just because we don't really
have a breakdown of what what you are actually hiring and how many hours you're you're hiring and it's it's just a a general fund >> without you know and that to me to me that's that's problematic um just from budget budgeting not that
it wouldn't be used used well but you know we don't know what it's for. But I can tell you with those nine names there plus us full-timers, >> yes, >> we cannot do what we have to do. >> So So is this money going additionally to the nine? >> No. No,
>> this is separate individuals. >> We're we're in the process right now. I'm looking to bring somebody in that's just going to focus on that newsletter that I spoke of and social media outreach because we do not do that well. >> And this person is is versed in that, versed in, you know, using AI to make all those crazy great flyers. and that's
going to be their goals. We have greater outreach to kind of go back to the point you made about how are we reaching these people about our new programs. >> That's not a skill set that I have. So, I need to bring somebody in seasonally to do that. So, they're getting information about our programs. >> Um, special event coordinator is there.
She's going to need help, especially as we start building up things. Um, I mentioned earlier how there's always new ideas, but we're we're stretched thin and we don't want to bring, you know, we're not asking to bring in tons of people, but we do need to happen and more often than not, these seasonal
people are high school kids, residents, it's our own people. So, it's not like we're, you know, it's uh, you know, somebody from the outside. It's somebody that has a vested interest in putting on great programming for our residents. >> Okay. So just in in the interest of
helping us, you know, and helping the municipality and the taxpayers because everything ends up back on the taxpayers, is there any is there any um give that you have in there? That's we're just giving you $30,000 and saying just do whatever you want or
for all sorts of season. It's 1500,500 extra hours that you're being given. Can you cut that down to a,000 hours? >> I I don't know if I could. >> Yeah. Can I jump in for a second? >> Without without saying that I may need to then incur overtime.
>> Here here's the other, you know, thing about recreation is that we're while we're here 8:30 to 4:30, our programs are 6:00 at night, Saturdays, Sundays, and we need people to go out and do the program. We need people to be, you know, like I said earlier, registration, all
that kind of stuff like that. So that's what we use these seasonal people to fill in the voids for our programs instead of having full-timers. Councilwoman Castelino had something she >> opening bathrooms which is Yes. >> Councilwoman, did you have a point a point? >> Yeah, I just want to add I just want to
add one point and and I understand my colleagues frustration and and but um we have to remember that Mr. Kio left. Mr. Johnson took on the position and did not hire an assistant uh rec director. Um he
still has uh Mr. um he still has his recreation program coordinator. Um but also what you also have to understand is the amount of scheduling that this department does in
working with our high school athletic director and coordinating all the fields and the schedules. I can't tell you enough. I've been working with this for over 20 years for my uh for my prior job and it it is a monumental task to
schedule every single program within the parks and fields and uh gym time and practice time and within all our schools. So that's that's number one. Number two, I encourage my sorry for my
voice. I encourage my colleagues to go to a recreation event, especially Halloween. You'll see those hourly uh uh hourly staff with the uh the high school students that they pay part-time to come
work that event. So, there's so many different different programs that people are oneoffs on with uh you know, with working for the particular event. So, and and and that's why I always have a better understanding on how this
department works cuz when you stop by the events and you see the different uh staff or residents and high schoolers working for the wreck, you get a better understanding where that 30,000 is going to go. That's all I just wanted to mention that they they did not hire
anybody for the director, the assistant director this year. Um so that means a lot of this is on Mr. uh uh uh on the wreck I want to say names on the recck program coordinator and Mr. Johnson.
Thank you. That's my comment. >> I'm not supporting change. >> Yeah, I think CBA wanted to jump in when the council people are finished. Okay, just um thank you very much. Unbelievable number of programs. And the
question is, as we add programs, do we ever take programs away? Are there programs where there really aren't very many participants and we retire those? >> Yes. So, we retire program retire programs if if there's just no need for
it. Um most recent example um is you know third and fourth grade girls travel basketball. Uh we had a program for that for several years. Whatever reason now the demand is not there. So we're constantly reevaluating our programs and we're not going to force a program to run just because we've had it in the
past because a it's not a good use of funds and b it creates a negative experience for those that are involved. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. So >> yeah, go ahead. Count it. >> Well, uh, Councilwoman has the floor, so I thought she was finished. >> I'm sorry. I thought she was finished,
too. >> No, I'm done. >> You are finished. Okay, council woman. >> So, we're finished with the with the employee stuff. We can move to the operating budget. Is that >> Yes, we I think we can consent on the employee. >> Are we?
>> Yeah. On pay 73 on 172, >> right? Yes. All okay. Yeah. >> Yes. Thank you. >> So, what's the next page? I'm a little confused. >> Yeah. Where are we going with the new pages?
>> Okay. So, the first thing I wanted to ask is something. >> Hold. Hold on. Wait a minute. >> You still have the full >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. >> We have to understand where we are in terms of how we bring this new document in. >> So, but we're going to go line by line.
I for everyone at home, I'm going to I have the revised wreck budget loaded and we're just going to go line by line starting with the original and saying what changed. Um it's the only way I >> We're on 175
>> of doing it this way. >> What page are we on? >> Um so we'll start at 177 in your old >> budget document and then you all have a new page, >> right? Okay. um that director Johnson put together. Um so
the director has eliminated line 020 pettash. The recreation department does not have an approved petty cache aotment. So we've deleted that line. So we've reflected that on Let me zoom in on this. This is a little small for
everyone at home. >> We reflected that on >> on Sure. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> The next line and I'm gonna move I'm gonna zoom in on this one too. >> Yeah. Thanks.
>> The next line for printing which is 030 recommended budget 1300. Director Johnson has revised that budget to be $200. Okay.
So I think at the end we need to vote on the revised budget and any other and then any other changes. So >> the whole thing but council we'll >> start with council >> Koviaak >> if I could because there's probably a great deal of confusion
uh on the call and uh maybe even on the deis the original non-employee part of the recreation budget was was eight pages. Correct. the non I tried to count this.
>> Yeah, it's it's well this OE part is two pages. Yeah. >> Okay. So, the original was eight pages. Now we have three pages modified. >> Can you can you sort of reconcile where the other five pages went? Well, the the
other pages are are like a through through 331 2026 where I gave you the paid in committed by account and the temporary budget that was loaded at the beginning of the year. I mean, this was really just for your
own edification in terms of the paid charged. Um, but what really matters is is this page here that has the requested budget because that's that's what we're talking about
and that's what changed. So the other pages don't change. It's it's this page that changed, >> but we want to be able to cross reference it. >> And that's what we're doing here. We're going to we're going to go line by line so that everyone at home can see um
>> where you took the money out. So, so if I could just again to put it in a little bit more context, the parks and playground schedule uh dropped uh roughly uh a little more than $50,000 and the events
uh programming uh went up almost three times. Went from uh 23,000 and change to 64,000 and change. So, that created, if I if I'm again, just stop me if I'm not doing the
math, this means that the actual overall budget dropped uh $13,000 and change almost 6%. Does that sound right in terms of the content? >> No, no. The the >> just these two just these two
>> parks and playground went down 54,600 and celebration of public events went down 19,875. Right. Yes. >> And we'll go we'll go through um wait.
>> Did I make a mistake? >> There's there's an increase in the celebration of public events because there is a one time uh line item in there. That's why otherwise increase >> we're taking something out. Maybe that's why I I wrote it the way I did. >> Okay. So, the page I'm looking at says
we spent last year on celebration of public events uh a little under $51,000 and the budget the recommended budget this year is 64 uh,625. Is that >> Yes.
>> Okay. So, that so that did go up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I think the the maximum of the um well paid remaining I think that was the >> when we get to that one we're going to start with parks and play then we'll get to to this one. >> Okay. Because I thought the original
budget said events were uh 23,397 >> fireworks alone for fourth of July is the loan is more than that number. >> That might be the temporary budget. >> Yeah, that was the temporary budget. Yeah, >> the temporary budget for just the first quarter. Yeah, that's just temporary budget. Yeah.
>> So again, apologies for my confusion, but I hope people understand. So anyway, just >> please go back and and where you were going, please. I think it's a good way to go. >> My hands up just for clarification.
The that that other page is 175, but we're not there yet. We're skipping 177. We're going to do 177. >> That's that's Councilwoman Castellina. Who do we have on Zoom? Uh, how many people? >> Yeah, >> there's six people.
>> All right. To the six the six employees, I apologize to you on this one. Um, let's see. All right. So, let's let's start again here. So, >> 177. >> So, advertising 031. We had a budget
request to 10,000 in the original. Director Johnson's brought that down to 7500, >> right? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And could you Yes. Council Councilman, >> before we go any further, I want to question this because last year,
according to my reading, we spent $656 on advertising last year and now we're proposing first 10,000 now 7,500. Right. And as we all recall, that was a very spirited debate we had about this topic last year. And by the time everything got through, it just didn't make sense
to do this mailer that we planned to do. So that number there, that $7,500 is a quote that's already in hand to design, print, and mail uh postcards listing the upcoming events throughout the year uh to $18,390 mailboxes in West Orange. That is the
official count of mailboxes that the Postal Service has for West Orange, which is up from 17,933 from a couple years ago. Um, we said, we talked about this a lot last time. I do see some value because just the other day I was in a meeting uh with with a resident and
they had no idea that we moved Fourth of July to the library. We've been there for two years. Um, so they're missing that, which is one of our marquee events. What else are they missing? and the idea to put something in everybody's mailbox with with events. And we could expand it to include other activities
that they could put on their fridge and they could know that this is what's going on on this time of year and they can plan, they can be there and they know where these events are happening. I think it's beneficial. Uh we've talked about communicating with people and like for some of us that you know if you go to Shore Rental or whatever, you see they got that stuff in the refrigerator. This is what's going on in this town
you're coming to visit. I think it'll be good for our residents to know these are our special events. This is what this town offers. We could even, you know, have a little fun with it if you want to work together. We could put garbage recycling days on them. People get confused still, >> right? I I get it. I'm I'm in
communications. I I get the argument. Uh >> I'm just saying how I got to that number. That's all that's the only reason I have that there. >> One of the things I think we discussed last year was whether we can reconcile this with people who give us their email addresses, people who prefer to get it
uh digitally as opposed to print-wise. Is that something that >> that is and that's that's our main method of communication right now and you're still getting the I didn't see that I didn't get that you know in one of the biggest things that we do here is like when we have to communicate a location change or a time change and
even that which which people like a day like today where we you know we have a track meeting today 7:30 in West Essex there are people that are going to miss the email if it gets canceled they're going to miss the notification we even have through community pass the ability to send text messages and people still just miss things email's not Perfect.
>> Right. But this last minute stuff, there's the the carts. Oh, yeah. Cards aren't going to help with that. >> But that's not that. But I'm just saying the email like we all wish there was some way that we could tap everybody on the shoulder through uh you know digital means. It's it's just not there. It's not.
>> Well, there certainly there certainly are people that that do do that. And if they contact us and affirmatively say, "I prefer to get it digitally," the fact that they that they're missing it, >> is not our fault.
>> And and I'm not sure we should uh incur that cost if if we don't reconcile this address in some way because it could be it could be a lot of people. >> Yeah. And and this is a promotional vehicle and as you alluded to earlier, like we have to make hard decisions,
this may be one of them. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so the question is from for me if we can reconcile this uh the mailing list versus the digital then I think that would significantly reduce the cost
and I don't think if people have affirmatively told us that they want to get this stuff electronically, we should not be sending them uh print. >> I would agree. >> But I don't know what analysis would show. >> Yeah. And I don't know the vehicle to to
do that. Like the one vendor we're working with, they haven't they do this as part of their business. So they have a whole setup with the posters where it's just boom like you know. >> Yes. Presorted mailers. >> Um so but I don't I don't know how about excluding people that would probably take some time and effort to get done. But it is understandable what you're
saying. Yes. >> Yeah. And it certainly is possible because I've done it. So I I know it's >> but it's something you're going to have to talk to spender and and uh and get that. >> I think it is more efficient. the the the issue is we got to decide now and and you're probably already on the on
the path to do this. Uh this may be a situation where if if you cannot, you know, uh tell us what lower rate that would that would be because you probably know how many email addresses you get. Maybe we could figure that out. Yeah,
when we we send out um through community pass uh so if they send out something everybody that's in our our registration database that has a opted into receiving marketing messages it usually hits about 21,000 email addresses. >> Wow.
You know and you know that that includes bounces there couple but it hits that that's everybody when we go in it does have all four ability to open up those email addresses. The general marketing messages are usually in the 30% range. >> So,
>> of the open rate. >> Open rate. Yeah. >> It's still pretty. >> It's still good, but there's still a lot of people that are missing. >> Yes. >> And there's some that don't live any number on the list anyway. But >> yeah, but but if we're looking to to shave some money, this might be a spot to do it. If you get 21,000,
>> that's our J that's our general. >> Wow. >> You got 18,000 that you're mailing to. >> That's that's weird math. can't suggest to me that we should be able to save some money here. >> Yeah, I would agree. >> But the question is we can't I don't think we can do it today. We can't push
a button and >> No, especially not here on you know May 20th. July 4th would be the would be the you know that would be the highlighted event of this and I said we have to make hard choices. This is one that you know we could see the pros and cons on. >> Right. So maybe we we figure out
something after uh summer. >> I'm sorry. Can you speak closer to the mic because it's hard to hear the on the video. >> Okay, beg pardon. >> Thank you. >> But maybe instead of trying to make changes for the summer when a lot of the
important events that we're looking at, maybe we try to shave it uh in the fall and winter when we know that we'll have more time to rationalize uh the distribution. But it's a real challenge to know that we've got 21,000 email addresses and uh
>> there's Yeah, I mean you I hear things every day like, you know, where's the pool? Where's the PL field? And then people have been lifelong residents and they don't know where certain things are in the park. So, you know, maybe an alternative here is, you know, we, as you're saying, shave some of this off and we get these cars printed and we
just hand them out as promotional vehicles, >> you know, to save the cost on mailing. But I do think we need something to kind of put in people's hands so they know what's going on in West Orange that is, you know, static events.
>> Councilman, are you Let me know when you're finished. >> Okay. Sorry, I'm just back. >> Uh, again, you know the system better than I do. Is this is this a situation where you feel comfortable you can rationalize this in the in this in the
fall and winter? And what I'm thinking is part of these cards goes out and says, "Hey, we don't want to waste paper and and money uh because it goes to your taxes or your rent." Uh tell us if you want to keep getting them by print.
>> Yeah. The only is that that 7500 number right now is to mail it to all the households. So um >> and that's just once in the year. >> That's one shot. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. So, >> and I'm not looking to do it wasn't looking to do it multiple times a year. Um, but if we're, you know, looking to shave some things off, maybe we find a
different way to do it. Maybe we, >> you know, get these things printed up and we hand them out in places and we put on there somewhere like, "Hey, if you want to be on our mailing list, send us an email or something." And and we try to engage people digitally that way. >> What What have we done on social media
in terms >> that leads back to the bring start bring somebody in that is much more skilled at that stuff than I am. Um, to start outreaching on social media. um you know the you know the newsletter we got revamped um to the recreation roundup which has been received very well now
because it has clickable links on it and that was part of this person that I'm bringing in to handle our communications >> like when we do our tax bill maybe there could just be a little thing about recreation sign up and get and know what's going on around town. I mean that would be a lot more cost effective than
$7,500. >> Yeah. Well, now that I understand the the confluence of uh digital and and print and the fact you're only planning to do it once, I I hesitate to cut this off because you already know what the cost is and you know it'll go out to everybody and we're >> Yeah, you see the original cost was 10
grand. I made sure I got a real number before I came before you guys. >> So maybe if somebody else wants to suggest >> I have a recommendation. >> Councilwoman Ruden had her hand up first. Can I get to you next counciloman? I think it's great that you're bringing in a social media person
and I'm looking at the website. Isn't it is there some way to work with um you know it would be pretty low cost to just upgrade our website so that you have um like links if you wanted swimming,
lacrosse, um pool, whatever, whatever you like. So you can click on it and and attend those and attend and sign up if needed. The website is right now the way it reads, it's very difficult to see all these
wonderful events that you have, they're not getting any play. >> But if you have this person coming in and you have that extra $30,000, >> that would be the key thing because this will >> create a great a great website
>> um and that'll save us money and get you get you the business that you need. >> Yeah. cuz from from day one I've managed our website and I've tried writing things out. Now you see my new approach there like on the lefth hand side there should be things for programs that lead you to description of programs and
links. Um but yeah I know we as a township we have an contract with Civic Plus. You know there really aren't there are very few good township websites out there. >> Um but you know hopefully you know with someone that's more wellversed in marketing and getting the stuff out there.
>> Right. >> That that that can be improved. Yes. Right. So that's I mean in my mind that's where the money should be going to your social media person to get this out online. I know that there is a value in having a paper copy, but last year I
suggested and I guess it it didn't go over very well just including it in the tax bill once a year on a nice print out of of the events in addition to really upgrading your website because that's where you're going to get a lot of traffic.
>> Bam. the best I can with that website. It's hard. >> No, I know. I know it is. But now that you have somebody who you can work with, I >> Yes, I can dedicate somebody to that because like I said, that's that was a responsibility that was solely mine and I need to kind of delegate some things out. >> Let me know when you're finished.
Councilwoman Castelino has something to say. >> I'm done. Thank you. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yeah. Thank you. And I think we're all thinking the same way. So So maybe we you make a reduction on this. Um, you have you have some I definitely get a bunch of bunch of it printed out. You
could also with your marketing. I know you want to mail them out. And let's all face it, the county is very successful with their programs. We all get the county literature that that comes in the mail and and that's why cuz you know you you see the county advertise for all of
their events that they have going. So I would recommend that you reduce this not maybe mail to every household. With the post office system you can pick and choose um you know throughout the town and reduce the mailing but again that's
for him to decide not not for us to micromanage. So, why don't we just reduce this uh this this by $2500 and and utilize 5,000 towards this uh
advertising for your programs. I'd like to make a motion to reduce 25. >> I'm My recommendation is is that you make a motion to >> reduce it to 5,000. >> Reduce the original down to what Mr.
Johnson has provided and then if you want to make further cuts, we're going to work off of the new document. That would be my recommendation because then it's going to be very difficult if we're going from the original to his. So my recommendation in mass
>> to reduce the parks and playground budget by $54,600 and then we will work off of Mr. Johnson's revised budget and then you can cut from there. Okay.
>> An overall cut just within >> Yeah. >> A 177 and 178. You're saying reduce 54 >> 54,600 because that's that's what your request was. >> Okay. I want to ask a question. Go ahead. >> Um Mr. Gman raised a really good point
and I just want to make sure that that's addressed which is that there seems to be perhaps a duplicate in um costs for the mountaintop basketball. I mean um baseball um >> it's going to be a different >> Save that one.
>> That's on 178 and that's part of the overall production. >> Which one? >> 250. Oh, >> sorry. >> Number 250 there. I'd say about a decade ago, uh, we partnered with the Mountaintop League. >> To, uh, form the Elementary Basketball
League, which is a fourth to fifth grade basketball league where each school has their own boys and girls team. Some schools have multiple teams and they play in a league. And as part of that agreement, uh, and also to keep the costs low, we absorb the cost of the referees for that program. So for
accounting purposes, we made sure all the officials for that program got charged that line. Is that a duplicate or why don't why don't you just put it all together >> as far as what is to the other officials line or as far as or to the community grant line.
>> This is no for for the MTL >> Mountain so that we know exactly what it's going to that's why it's broken. >> Okay. So this is this is just for the basketball >> basketball only. Yes. the the other line the community services line that
mountain top that is basically for programming that they offer that we do not provide. Okay. Such as ice hockey, soccer. >> All right. So in in also with this with this um request to to lower it by 54K
um is there some way that you can um adjust line 70 to make it reflect lacrosse? >> No, >> that is what it's actually being spent on. Most of that is being spent on but there have been funds drawn out of that for basketball programs that have
entered tournaments. Line 70. >> Yeah. Recent most recently. Yeah. >> Right. So can you just clarify that what part goes to lacrosse and what part goes to to other >> 07. Line 070. >> Yes. >> So line 070 there that is for fees that are outside the normal scope of the
programs. Um they're for teams that enter tournaments. Our lacrosse team is playing up in uh Cranford this weekend for tournaments. uh as basketball's gone year round now, we do have teams that are playing uh in basketball tours on in the spring season. So that's what those funds that that line is being charged
against. >> Wait, wait, wait. Go ahead. >> Just want to continue. I also >> So councilwoman, I have a recommendation because this is going to take all night. Why don't we just go back to Mr. Johnson and Mr. Diniac going through each line.
We we we make the edit. He'll give his little brief explanation and then we go back to where you think you should cut money. Otherwise, we're bouncing up and down. Conversations are getting repeated and it's going to take us hours to do it this way. It's so much easier. He just
lets him go down. We won't talk. Let him just go explain his line items with his new numbers and then we could go back. Just just put an asterisk on the ones you want to go back. Otherwise, it's too confusing and it's we're we're never
going to get this done. >> Councilwoman, go ahead. >> Um Mr. Datiniac made an even quicker motion which is just get they'll they'll they'll just cut the budget by 54 and and come back and >> well so that that that puts us down to
what uh the director submitted >> and then if you guys want if you guys the council wants to change from there it's just easier than trying to reference back to the original budget. So, >> so, so from this that you've presented us today, you're offering to reduce it
another 54. >> No, no, no, not another. I'm I'm I'm saying take the original budget >> and reduce it by 54,600 and then you get to Edwin's >> um >> get to the three new pages, >> new budget submissions. That's what I
meant. and and then no and then you would be able to go line by line and make your changes there just cuz it's easier >> if you start making changes to individual line items. I'd have to try to figure >> what it is on. >> So let's let's do that because that seems like a necessary
>> and so then then we're starting with Edwins and we can go line by line that way. Got it. >> And he had also combined line items too also. >> Yes. >> Okay. So who wants to make that motion? >> I'll make that motion and I'll second >> you.
Okay. Uh, >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Kakovia, yes. Councilwoman Ruden, yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, the motion. >> So, I think we were on 9 070, the fees,
entrance, and rental. >> Um, the original request, like we said, was 5,000. It is now 3,000 which you've you've approved. Um so your questions on the lacrosse and um
>> yeah a lot of stuff you know might have been early on lacrosse but now it's it's basketball uh because lacrosse season is pretty much wrapping up in the next two weeks. Um so those those are used to for supplemental events that our teams want to participate in because all sports are
year round now. Council President. Yes, >> I'm sorry, but did we finish up on 031, which was the advertising now? Now that we just jumped right over that and that we were still >> No, we didn't. We were discussing it for a while. We >> want to So, but we didn't make it we
didn't make a a a motion on what what to do with that. >> So, >> yeah, I'll make a motion to reduce. I thought I thought we just agreed that we're going to go down every single number, put the numbers in, look at those numbers, agree to those numbers
that were reduced, and then go back and start reducing again. We're going back to reducing each line item. Let's let the director and John go through Mr. Tinia go through each item. So you guys have a a semblance of the page and then we will start cutting those numbers, additional numbers.
>> Did we put everything down to Edwin's >> new baseline? >> Yeah. Well, now when you're you're bringing the baseline here, you're saying then these numbers and we're going to start cutting again. That's >> we had a discussion that that was an item that we could cut from because it's something that we don't know we're going to get a return on
>> in these numbers. That's why you know I don't want to get the public view as well. >> We just talked about it. It's the same. >> Yeah. On on the public page and when you go to speak I would put up the new page on there. >> Yeah. So, do we want to talk about reducing
that advertising? >> We just talked about >> but originally a $10,000 request. I'm asking for $7,500 play. >> But we talked about the validity of doing a one-time mailing and I don't think I don't see spending that kind of
money on a mailing as being >> something that we're going to get a return on our investment >> process of doing that. I thought >> No, I'm not. I have a quote and I I explained to the vendor that I had lined up because of our timelines that I would have to come here and if said that mean we have to do it if we don't think we're going to get a return on the our
investment that money >> it would be foolish for me not to have it in place and then all of a sudden get the money and go oh I didn't get it done then I look bad so >> well perhaps we should talk finish our discussion and make a motion if we want to reduce that >> um okay well and do you want
Yes. >> Yeah. I think we should reduce it down to like, you know, a couple thousand dollars at the most. >> Don't don't give him anything then. But >> he only want he's got a quota for 7500. >> Yeah. It's it's Yeah, >> it's not to be a mailer. I mean, if we want to try something like palm cards,
then that's that's the best we can do. But >> yeah, that's not that's not going to work. You need either do a mailer or you reduce the mailing to uh uh reduce the like how many households you go to, but you need the printed to hand out like
the public relations commission. We could hand them out for you at the street fair because we're handing out other things at the street fair. There's other ways you could do it, but if he he I see the value in the mailing obviously the county does. That's how they advertise their programs. we all get
their advertisements through the mail. >> We're not the county. Yeah, >> we're not the county. >> And from a marketing point of view and you look at the our the return on investment of of a mailing like that, I don't think we're going to get it. I mean, we all when we when we canvas, we send out >> don't do mailings for your political and they get thrown in the garbage most of
them. >> So, >> yeah, don't do mail. >> We do see them getting sent out all the time. I mean, you get stuff from camps all the time and all that kind of stuff. So, it's just something that was >> worth a shot. But if if the consensus is that's not worth it, then >> yeah, I think that's an area too. >> So, can we make a motion? Make a motion
to cut the cut the line item. We won't mail this year. >> Yeah, I think we should cut the line item completely and not do a mailing this year, >> but he needs some kind of advertisement. He's got to have some kind of print so he could at least pass things out at the rack when people come down. He could
give the a card out or like I said at the street fair even he prints a couple thousand. How much do you think he needs? >> He needs a couple thousand dollars in print fees to advertise his programs. >> Yeah, I didn't get a the quote didn't have the breakdown by that cuz I was
trying to turn it around quickly. But yeah, you got what's what's the postcard now? 40 cents or whatever you figure. So I I think if you cut the line in half, maybe we can make that work. >> I'll make that >> as I said. Yeah. Sent
>> $5,000. She wasn't bet. >> Who made a motion? He didn't hear any motion. >> I didn't make No, I didn't make a motion. I just said >> I just offered up a number. >> We bet a couple thousand. Go ahead. >> Were you going to make that motion? >> I'm making >> Yes. I I think we should cut it down. I think
>> I >> I have the floor. Did >> I >> Okay, >> Madame Clerk, was there a motion? I did not hear a motion. I heard a motion from Councilwoman Castelino at way back when and then >> I made the motion to cut it down to 2,000.
>> I did not hear that. >> And I did not hear a second. >> I second that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'd cut it,000. >> Okay. >> Then what was second? >> Um >> 2000. So I just my only question is when
I do my notes I put I guess I'll just put the line item because I usually put the page number but >> so the line item is 031 >> advertising >> um >> and you're reducing it to 2
>> 2000 >> um all Right. >> All right. Um, any further discussion on that? >> Councilman Kovia, >> just very quickly, I the the reason I thought it would be a good idea to go
forward is because you could you could test the market. You could put a message that says if you don't want to receive the the printed postcard, uh, you know, go to this place, give us your name, your email address, and your real
address, and we'll we'll fix it. So, that's the only reason I did that, but uh, we'll see what happens. >> I like the idea of doing that in tax bill. So, I guess we're going to vote on the motion. Councilwoman Castelino
>> for 2000. Uh, no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarf, >> the motion carries. >> Okay, next line is uh Oh, sorry.
>> So, we're going to go through every single line. I thought we weren't doing that on the new one. We are. We are on the new one. >> No, I understand. >> We need to go through everything. every line. >> Okay. I'm very confused because I thought I thought that basically we were leaving
it up to the directors. Yeah. >> To spend their money the way they want to spend their money. >> You all have a new um revised budget sheet. If you >> want to point something out, we'll point it out. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Thank you. I just wanted to make the recommendation to my colleagues that if we would like to look at um the overall budget of 149,300, we have a 6.41% increase. If we would like to level that
off to a lower increase, that would be my recommendation as opposed to trying to go through each line. The only reason we were going to go through each line was because the public has not seen what the lines are. But I don't think today. >> This was posted today. >> Yeah, it's on the website, too.
>> Understand what each line item is. Some of them we're not sure. I think we need to go through each read. >> Let him read them off quickly. >> Okay. So, we can go. But I Myation is not that we cut his line items, that we cut the bottom line,
>> right? as opposed to trying to say instead of you going and spending 200 or $200 for printing if again we just cut his bottom line and he will allocate what he needs throughout his budget is my recommendation.
If you want to if you want to review each line item and tell tell us what it is, but I think we just need to allow you to go through them and then we just make >> Can we go through the line items quickly so he can describe and then perhaps >> Let's do that quickly. >> I have my hand raised.
>> Go ahead, Councilwoman Castelino. Go ahead. >> Yeah, let him I think he needs to go through each one, explain them before you go cut his money because he already made cuts already. So let let him give him an opportunity to explain like everybody else got
>> and then you can cut whatever. All right. Thanks. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> All right. So like I'll just guess the lines and um we'll go from there. Um 0780 like I mentioned earlier that covers supplemental tournaments game play u for our our teams for my
primarily lacrosse and basketball. Um 71 is new signs. Uh that's basically to do signs throughout the park. We're actually engaging in an inventory of our parks as far as you know for replace worn signs, faded signs. Uh most recently we put up a sign of Toby Cats
that said, you know, uh parking beyond this point is for cats center events only because it's had a big issue for our senior programs up there. So we're trying to address that uh with signage there. And also right outside my window, the do not enter sign is faded and you can imagine the cars that are driving
down past the playground. So it's a safety hazard. So we are uh addressing that um maintenance building uh last year that number is very high because of significant damage to stag playhouse stag fieldhouse I'm sorry um so that
number is just to fix all of our field houses all the issues that are there we do have to do some repairs at Lafayette due to water damage and some drywall repair there uh maintenance fence uh that's you know a maintenance issue I can tell you right now uh park I have to go replace the uh gate cuz everybody
Everybody wants those plunger gates to keep the kids in the park. But the problem with those things are the parents lock themselves in as well and they break them very often. So they have to be replaced. Um plumbing that is for the uh opening and winterization. So basically anything that has running water, any of our field houses, uh the
gardens, stuff like that, that is what the plumbing line goes to. And also uh for the bathrooms like at uh Stag uh and Okconor, which are being repaired now. Officials pretty self-explanatory. That's for our scorekeepers, our referees for our uh our basketball
programs. Um, you know, the uh scorekeepers, which are important, stuff like that. And those costs, you know, as it's that's a perfect for example, supply and demand. As the supply is going down, the cost of officials is going up. They're getting, you know, $75 $80 a game. Now, uh
materials office, that's just our general office supplies, uh to run our office. Uh janitorial, um we took a look at I know we didn't spend any money on that last year, uh, but we used a lot of, uh, extra supplies from the pool and whatnot. And that also
covers, as I mentioned, the field houses and also the cats community center and the paper products there. Uh, paint, same situation again, you know, with the timing of last year, we kind of rode through everything. We borrowed from some sources that we had. Um, that that is going to be ordered very shortly
because we're on our last two buckets of paint. Uh, and, you know, soccer season is, you know, going to be coming up soon. So, we'll be painting. Usually we paint I believe it's 11 soccer fields and that's for over about 10 weeks in the in the fall season along with a couple now. We also do a guideline for
the baseball fields. Tiro's hardware uh we knocked that down. We're just not spending the money on that. A lot of that was some uh house accounts that we no longer need. So we were able to to knock that number down to $500 which is uh I'm sorry, $1,000.
We've already spent $500. $1,000 because that matched what our expenses had been. Uh same situation you get with lumber. Um the primary use of lumber is for our special events you know again to reduce the cost and save a little bit of money.
We build a lot of things inhouse. Uh the guys down at 110 Franklin they are unbelievable in what they can build. You give them an idea uh and they build it. And also too they have props that have lasted many years. So sometimes you need to you know the wood rots out. you got to fix things. So that's what the lumber
account is used for. And for that we try to get a more accurate number which why brought it down to a thousand. >> Excuse me, Mr. Johnson. Um uh Mr. Dinak, please. You have the wrong page up on the screen. >> Thank you.
>> Carry on. Thanks. Um 117 m materials athletics uh you know that number last year doesn't really match because we didn't we went without for a lot of stuff because again the timing of the whole thing but that is that is support stuff for the programs. Uh we need goals for
lacrosse. I mentioned field hockey earlier. We're probably going to need to purchase some field hockey equipment and then just stuff for the play. Cones, pennies, basketballs, balls, whistles, uh nets for our outdoor basketball courts and tennis courts. So things like that come out of athletics and we feel
that that number is pretty the 5,000 number is pretty accurate as far as what we need to support our programs and provide for outdoor recreation. Uh materials medical uh same situation again there. Uh we used a lot of existing inventory last year especially
from the pool. Um so that $500 number is what we anticipate and part of that medical is not just what we keep on site at the rec department. It is also to prepare first aid kits for our coaches, our site managers, people that are in programs just in case like you never know how often you're going to need a
band-aid or an ice pack. You go through a ton of ice packs. So that's what majority of the medical stuff is there. Um, I took lines number 120 and 127 and I combined them into a singular account which is pretty much park and field
maintenance just basically for to make it more clear that everything that we need to do to maintain our fields, maintain our parks, you know, there's there's nine parks. We have 10 playgrounds out there, countless fields between us and us and the board of education. And that's our clay, that's
our our um fuel conditioners, grass seed, uh field drying agents, you know, flowers for the parks, uh the equipment, rakes, drag mats, stuff like that that would needed for uh to keep our parks beautiful and playable, especially now in baseball season. You know, on
average, the guys are out there doing six, seven fields a day for the kids to play on. Um and it's not, you know, it's not easy. So, those guys work really hard and they need the tools to get that work done. Can I just ask you who does that maintenance? Is that subbed out or is that >> it's in house? That's a lot of those guys that we talked about earlier. Um
those three guys, those guys plus a few more handle our our our maintenance. >> Council president. Isn't that also covering turf? >> I'm sorry. >> Turf and turf replacement. >> The turf. There's part of 120 the turf. We do have a contract to maintain the turf at at uh Denton. They come out three times a year to vacuum all the
debris out of it, fluff it, make sure the fill is all in there at safe levels. And they also perform a GMAX test which tests for head injuries to make sure it's safe to play. >> And what percentage is that of that budget? The turf maintenance
>> 5,450 >> 54 >> JCW 5450 >> which is for the quarterly visits and that GMAX testing which is very important. And how much longer do you have with those turf fields? Because they all need to be replaced.
>> Don was only done coming right out of CO 2021. So Devon Deon is still young. >> What's the replacement time for those fields? >> They recommend 10 to 15 years. >> So it's not >> it's still young. It's still young. There's >> in need of replacement. >> No. >> Okay.
>> And then the GMAX testing, you know, they do it in multiple spots on the field and it is still well, you know, in this in the same range. So the only issues we have there is just basically your normal wear and tear which is part of this bait contract. >> Go ahead. Thank you sir.
>> 121 materials apparatus. I I want to combine that with 13 133. So I'll when I get down to 133 I'll address that. Uh all these other little accounts you know 1224 125 we're going to get rid of. They were small accounts. I don't know how we
would spend that money. Um 127 I mentioned we combined with 120. We got rid of 128. Uh materials trophies, you'll see, you know, we asked for $2,000. We spent $26 so far and we're good there because most of our programs wrap up in the fall and now. So,
anything that starts up new again that will need trophies won't be until 2027. Uh computer supplies. Um I know you know we didn't spend anything previously but as part of you know when I kind of took over here I started doing inventory and this stuff and there are two webcams in the entire office and with the Verizon
virtual meetings we need that. Um and also um there has been an ask for some more ergonomic mice and stuff as we do have an employee that had a carpal tunnel issue so we don't need more of those. So, I do anticipate spending I wasn't
picking on you. Um, we do anticipate spending that u that that money to get some webcams and and other uh devices to help keep our employees safe and also help us meet with the public because >> virtual meetings have been very helpful for recreation department in terms of
getting with people and resolving issues especially as you know many of our participants in our programs you know they're they're working jobs too so they can jump on a zoom call but they can't come down to see me so it works out well. Copy machine 131. We're getting rid of
uh 132 lawnmowers has nothing in it. We're going to remove that. Uh 133 playground apparatus materials apparatus. We combine them. Um we're asking for a total of 3,000 there and it's a slight increase just to reflect that the increase in costs of free. Um
that is a preventive maintenance line. So it's not something that's earmarked right now. But I can't sit here and say on May 20th while there are still three playgrounds that are in excess of 16 years old and not under warranty, then nothing's going to break and it's much easier to replace a part than it is to
shut down a playground. >> Um, can you just review when all of the playgrounds are going to be updated because I thought that we're up to date on almost everything. We've approved almost every >> Yeah, you've approved them. So, we haven't we haven't met them all yet. still have Jenkins out there. >> Mhm.
>> Uh which is over on Roadstars, which >> that one, you know, the playground's the easy part, but you know, that that draw bridge is a problem there, too, but that's more of an engineering issue than an issue for me. And then, uh, the smaller playground for the two to 5 year olds at OKConor needs to be done. And then there's that small playground at Hagerty. So, those are the three
remaining playgrounds that have not um you >> uh Jenkins, the two to five playground at OKConor. ages two to five because remember a couple years ago we did do the older playground the 5 to 12 and Hagerty we do own that playground on on Hagerty Drive
that is our responsibility >> Jenkins is where >> it's on Rose Towers behind the fire headquarters >> that's the skate park is that the skateboard park skate >> park is skate park >> and it's called Jenkins Park >> Jenkins Park is the official name of that park yes >> oh wow I thought it was just the
skateboard park >> no what kind of repair would a skateboard I'm glad you asked. I was going to say that next. The skate park for whatever reasons gets tremendous amount of graffiti. We don't want that on there. So these the skate deck itself, we can't
just paint over it. You have to use a special epoxy paint, which we are now out of, which is part of what that is. So like the other playgrounds, you we have a little graffiti remover kit that comes with every new install. You know, it's probably just vinegar or something like that. But for the escape park, in order for it still to have that grip
that it needs to be used properly, we have to buy a special epoxy paint. And that's what comes out of there too. >> Do we have cameras there? >> I was just going to say that >> and if we don't >> fire department, right? >> That's a very very long winded topic that's been going on for several years.
>> You want can I just understand my >> graffiti? If there's graffiti >> the the the short version is they had to figure out how to get power to the skatepark itself. >> Okay. And then there was the also
involved the sigging of a pole and that's hasn't happened yet. >> Is graffiti a tremendous problem at this location >> at skatepark? Absolutely. Yes. >> And how much is it costing us >> for what to fix? Oh, go ahead. >> Um, so I was asking is graffiti a
problem? >> Yes. >> And then I'm asking is it so graffiti can be viewed as art. So what is the type of >> majority of it is art? majority is is tasteful, but then you do get some people that, you know,
>> they express opinions that shouldn't be put on playground equipment. >> But shouldn't it be authorized? >> Can I finish? >> I mean, it has to be authorized. >> Please finish. >> Go ahead. >> Thank you. >> Is it possible for us to create an opportunity where we do a graffiti type
of painting there? >> That has been done. There's there's a garage on I forget the name of the street there that runs parallel to the skate park. Was it Kingsley? >> Kings Kingsley. Kingsley. And we had several years ago, might have been pre-COVID. Uh we did put a mural up.
That was great. Um but you know, you ask some of the skateboarders, you know, that that's part of the culture, but it's not >> that's what I was trying to >> Yeah. So there there like I'm going to be honest with you, like I I I get the guys that go out when they go to the park, they send me the pictures of it, and I use my opinion to sit there and say,
"All right, this needs to be addressed now. this week gonna be because some of it as you're saying is art. >> It is. >> It is art and I I do understand and I do appreciate that. But also too like we don't want to put the art on the skate deck where the kids are skating and you know anything that is
>> offensive obviously we address immediately. >> But I I get that it's art, but let's pick and choose where we're doing that art a little bit better. >> And it's art but not on private property and it wasn't authorized. >> Oh, it's still graffiti. It's still >> right. It should be authorized. Yeah. I
mean, it's it's yes, there are people that are going out and and painting things on township property and, you know, but we don't >> I see that as an opportunity for us to partner with perhaps the arts gallery, recreation department partnership, and
we actually make that a graffiti type mural park, if you will, or some type of event or activity where the creativity is conversation. Yeah, I think that's a conversation. I mean, I do see like dude, you know, there you hopefully there's the respect level that if
somebody does something quality artistic that it won't be disturbed, >> but there are people that just graffiti because they're being defiant, >> right? I'm just kidding. >> Councilwoman Castelino had her hand up. >> Yeah. So, you know, listen, I I understand the whole art aspect of it,
but I've looked at beautiful like what looked like really nice graffiti graffiti that had a meeting that was gang related. So, I I think we, you know, I don't like I don't I don't I don't support just having graffiti all
over our public spaces. If it's an organized sanctioned event where the picture is vetted before it goes up on any of our township property, I'm very supportive of that, but not just random graffiti. Um cuz I just think sometimes,
you know, people just don't use their own judgment and um especially with kids, they may think something's okay when it really isn't. So I I I just would think we'd be very careful on that with our public spaces sanctuing anything that's not authorized. That's
>> I do agree. >> Um anyone discussion? We'll keep going, I guess. >> Uh 134 utilities. We're we're going to get rid of that. There was nothing there. Uh 135 maintenance scoreboard. I know that came up earlier. That again is a maintenance account. Uh we do have
scoreboards for Denon Field. We have scoreboards that we use at the high school and Liberty. And those control boxes, that $1,000 would cover one of them. And the one at DNE is outdoors. And we'd love the parents using it's a
great amenity. They should be using it. It adds to the game out there. But you get a day like today and all a sudden it starts raining that scoreboard's out there and it gets wet. They're not meant to be not to get wet. So that's a repair job. >> Oh. >> So that's that's what that is. That's just basically that is again that's a if something breaks I got to fix it because
if not the complaints will roll in. >> That's that's Yes. Council >> go ahead. >> Can you explain why? I mean you're having an object that's outside that when it gets wet >> it breaks. >> That's way that's the way those patrol panels are. >> There's no way to cover it. Oh, I I give
I leave a a full roll of clear plastic garbage bags with instructions to do it. But if you're not sitting there watching them, sometimes things happen and they break. And I when I called verb, it's all it's water locked. >> Is there isn't there a better way than than plastic garbage bags that you always have it covered except during an
event. >> It's it's that's where the technology is at right now. I've not seen a scoreboard that's that's waterproof for that. I mean the most places you know you know the person running the scoreboard is in a press box or a sheltered area that doesn't exist at Degman right now.
>> Isn't there some way to let parents know or whoever is running these scoreboards that if they want to cover them where they don't use them? >> They've been it's it's been much much better over the the past couple years um you know through education but nothing is full accountability.
>> Yes. I mean either that or they're going to get they're going to get a flip score and we'll call we'll go from there. Okay, keep going. >> All right. Uh 137 >> 137 maintenance motors. Uh it's repair of various small income machines. Uh they use her to clean and maintain the
parks. Um you know, mainly uh a lot of a lot of our park guys are 110 Frank on that account. Uh so that solves that there. Uh 138 athletic recondition. Uh that probably could go be another account to be consolidated uh with 117 materials athletics. A lot of that is
just basically replacing equipment that's lived it life. You know, basketballs, you know, there bounces in them. Uh baseball's got so many hits in them. Uh 141 maintenance air raators. That also includes the treatments of uh Lake Vincent and Crystal Lake, the algae
treatments. And also for the installation, removal, and storage of the air raators in the offse. Uh currently, one of them is broken. We have a quote for uh $3,000 and change to repair it. or if you want to buy a new one, it's over10, almost
$11,000 to buy a new one. So, we're probably going to opt to repair it. So, that's another line item that uh you do see a slight increase that's reflecting in the cost of increases everything and also with the knowledge of that there is one air raator that does need to be repaired. >> How much is that >> the repair?
>> Yes, >> it is. The quote is $3,412 to repair >> and you have a budget line for 16,000. 16,000 which includes the alg algae treatments for the two lakes and then the removal insulation storage of the air raators for the lakes. I believe
there's four of them or five of them. >> So can you give us a better breakdown of that? Is it really 14534 for just the maintenance of it yearly and then you have another $3,000 because of this this
>> 14,534 is what we were build last year for all of our uh algae lake treatments and maintenance of the air raator lines. >> Can Mr. Diac, can you give us a better look at that online what you see? >> Talking about last year. >> Yes,
>> sure. And then I'll get Councilwoman Castelina when you're finished. >> Yeah, Hawaii's looking. My question is just uh what about Cable Lake up at Rock Spring? >> Good question. That's that's the responsibility of Keer.
>> Okay, that's what I thought you were going to say. >> Um and they they just cleaned it out. They just cut down all the the weeds and whatever that grass is there.
Um, so yeah, last year you had your air raator treatments, $8,000. Um, and then you had various maintenance items for air raiders.
You had $4,000 for winterization. And then you had something at Okconor Park. >> Yes. Okconor Park. Um, as some of us may remember, the big help came in. Yes, >> I knew you would. Um, >> the big slime. >> Yeah, they had a they had an air raator
in there. Um, and it >> it retired, so we had to replace it. >> Yeah, it was lovely up there. >> Beyond repair. It was one of those one of those jobs where you just saw previously. I got a quote for a repair and a quote for a new one. In the case of Okconor, it's a smaller body of water. Um, you know, less less uh
volume. So, the quote to replace it was about the same as the quote to repair it, especially being a 20-year-old item. So, we we replaced that one last year. That's the $4,000. >> I knew we had more water around town. >> Okay, we can keep going.
>> Um 2011, this is the mayor's program for the uniquely gifted account. Um, we took the num the number that is being asked for the 15,000 that is what we believe to
reflect the cost of that program based upon their 13 events uh plus their summer camp. So, you know, last year and I'm not quite sure how the number got down to 6,000. You saw we spent 11,000. Um, you know, we've already spent 9,000 this year. Um, these
are, you know, their monthly events where they they come out. It includes, you know, they they they socialize. There's trips to a pumpkin chicken pumpkin pumpkin picking trip. That's hard to say. Um, in October, they have a Christmas party. They have a Thanksgiving. They have a prom coming up
on May 31st or a gala. So, that's the line used to basically pay for those those events. And we do charge a nominal fee, but it's nowhere near enough to >> Yeah. >> cover that. >> They're beautiful events. Councilwoman Castleina, I mean, >> can you just tell me how much we've
actually spent year to date? Because sometimes what you're reading in this page to charge is encumbered, not actual expenses. >> So spent actual cash out the door is $4,650.99. >> Okay. So, I mean, this is a fabulous program, no doubt, but the budget is
going up quite a bit. And and the and the spend to date is not it's half of what it's put down here. >> What's that through the quarter? >> Well, that's what we actually spent, but you have things encumbered for >> sure
>> for the special needs party with the DJ. Um, >> at the end of the year, the the holiday party's a big one, too. >> Village Super. Yeah, it's open. >> All right. Yeah. So, the DJ, like they use the same DJ because they they love him. So, there there's an open PO there for him that we we draw down on. Um, so
which adds to the encumbered versus paid out the door. This is the math that we've done. Now, this this program, they probably added parties and the budget hasn't kept up with that and that's part of this. But, so that number right there, that is the
number that these parties are costing. We, you know, Joan and I spent a tremendous amount of time. This was one of the account line items that we focused in on to get a true number because I know it's been a conversation piece and then you see, you know, a final number of 59.9246 and then we're asked for 15,000. Yeah,
that's that's a shock, but it's not a number that we just said, "Yeah, let's ask for it." This is what it costs to run that program and it's a program that we're charging a nominal amount for these people to attend. >> Yeah, it I'm not touching this one. >> Do you do you have any any accounting on the revenue? I know that there's a
little bit of money that comes in for each of these events. >> And >> so just for the winter and the spring, the events that they had so far, they brought in $1,000 approximately $1,000 in revenue. >> Okay, go on.
>> Uh 208 >> 208 programs. Um that is uh we dropped that number down. Uh again, like I said, we took a a good close look at what we're actually spending and also how could we change things that we were
doing and still provide the same experience but at a lesser cost. And that's how we got down to the 5, you know, $5,000 reduction there. >> Yes. Councilwoman, go ahead. >> Um from my look at this, this this is
paying for Johnny on the spots, these programs. Can you give us a better breakdown into what this programs is? And it Johnny on the spot should be a separate category. >> You got Johnny. You get the senior. >> Yeah. So right now you see Johnny on the spots there. Um the senior golf
tournament came out of there, >> right? >> Special needs prom >> and a Lego. Yeah. So it's it's it really is a catchall for it. Now the Johnny on the spot things they are very important. >> That's the the biggest. Now we want to make that its own line item. Again, that's another future conversation with you 100%.
>> Sure. Um but this this program it's used a lot to subsidize the cost of programs like lacrosse. In lacrosse we provide the players with helmets and shoulder pads to reduce the barrier to entry. Um and also a lot of the programs that I know we're not going to make
money on like craft class the tea party things come out of there. Do do people pay to >> Yeah, we have a nominal fee, but nominal number 10 $10 >> when there is money that that like the $1,000 that came in for the MPSN program, does that go into our general budget?
>> That goes into the go to a trust account >> into a trust account. And then how much is in that trust account? And is that trust account being used to support and >> for nearly all of our programs, the trust accounts are used to cover as much of the expense as possible. For a lot of
our programs, the trust account covers the entire cost. But there are certain programs like lacrosse, travel basketball, the marriage program. Don't if we charge the actual cost of those programs, we would not have participants for those programs. >> Can we get some information on what how much is in the trust?
>> The money goes in and then he uses it for the programs. He's not sitting on >> So all of the money that we give goes into the trust. >> No, the money that So we charge for the program through the current fund. Mhm. >> We take in money from the participants
and then from that trust it goes to pay for the program. >> Okay. So, I would like to know how much Johnny on the spot is and to have that pulled out. And when are we ever going to get rid of them or >> I don't think you're ever going to get rid of them because they're a part like Bowling Park is a tremendously popular
park. Beautiful playground. We play baseball and softball there. there's no amenities. >> And that is the biggest feedback. When stag bathrooms were under renovation, >> the volume of calls I got in emails that I got about people needing to go to the bathroom, especially with the little
ones, that's why we put a portage on there. That's why there's ones because there's no alternative. And it's almost now become an expectation to have a restroom facility. >> How much is that? The Johnny on the spots >> and I'll say there contract too. That's that's so it's a reduced rate than what someone pays off the uh one last
question. before they finished. before >> if you could just pull out the number of Johnny on the spot. And then we'll do council >> $2,37328 >> and and that's going to continue on or
is that for a yearly cost? >> That's that's the annual cost because I included the >> the blanket incumbent a separate line item for that. That's all I'm requesting. And um we were told that a lot of the or all of the um athletic
equipment from the middle school is going over to the wreck department. Is that correct? >> That was said in a meeting, but that has not been said directly to me. >> Okay. >> Um the only conversation I've had with them is about, you know, partially partnering with their boo booster club to help again maybe grant get grants,
fund raise, you know, reduce costs. But I'm I'm not sure what equipment they have because the same equipment they have is what they use for gym classes. So that's a future conversation. >> Okay. So I hope that you do have that conversation because you're budgeting a
lot of money for that and maybe you're going to be getting that from the schools since they're they said they're giving everything over to you. >> They said the the schools from the middle. >> One of their meeting one of their meetings they they mentioned that we were to get stuff some stuff from them. that I again it's almost like a garage
sale. This is the stuff I don't want anymore, you know, so I don't know the quality of it. >> Um, you know, and it's stuff like that. And so >> extra thing on the cake. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We don't know what it is. >> I'd like there to be an inventory.
>> Yeah. No. Well, it's definitely like look there's there's it's it's never going to be no. The conversation is always going to be there just like we're having tonight. And you know, if they have some stuff that's helpful, you absolutely will take it. Um, they're doing us some things I never thought of before. Um, so but I'm, you know, I know
a lot of their stuff gets over overlapped with gym class, so I don't I'm not so sure about that. And >> so you know who to communicate? >> Oh, I know to communicate and they know how to find me somehow. >> Okay. >> Can council member Kobe >> I'm dead. >> Go ahead. >> Thank you. >> I just want to make sure I understood
what you were saying about programs that you use some of that funding for to subsidize travel team either equipment or or trips. Um, this reminds me, my son played college baseball and he's got a ton of equipment in the garage. Is that something that
you guys would be interested in? >> He's a catcher. He was a catcher. >> Oh, even better. >> It's even more. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Totally totally aside. >> I uh I make a distinction between wreck programs and travel teams. And in my
opinion, if you want to do a travel team, you should pay the entire cost of the program. And that means equipment, uh, travel, uh, fees, all of that, because that's what we did. >> And I I make a distinction for that. And
so, I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying. You are using funds to subsidize travel teams. Is that >> Yeah. because I I would like from now on for you to identify any money that goes to a travel team in this in the line items because I want to uh you know
challenge that because I I don't think that's an appropriate use of our township funds. So, >> okay. >> Yeah, it's it's it's it's it does happen. Um but this program is does subsidize non-travel programs as well.
So, we can delineate that further. Yes. But it's it's not just to to subsidize travel programs. I just want to make that part clear. >> Sure. That that's fine. I just as we're going through all this, I want to identify any funds that we're paying for travel teams because I don't think
>> the one the one that's a little tricky like basketball I I would agree with you on uh is lacrosse because lacrosse does require a tremendous amount of equipment and at the younger levels we're trying to figure out so there's not a barrier to entry. Um but yes, that's that's a fair point. Okay, >> Councilwoman Castelino.
Yes, just a couple comments as far as the travel teams go, council councilman, since since your time and my time with our athletes, um you know, even like the oldtime wreck programs aren't sufficient enough uh for the competition. So even the the you
know what what Mr. Johnson's been successful with in working with the high schools is is are these traveling teams and and so with the lacrosse, yes, there has to be, you know, he he's been subsidizing some items as far as the
middle school goes. Um, also just educate my colleagues, they don't like they don't have a lacrosse program. A lot of these programs where he has needs for, they don't even have those programs at the middle school. the basic programs they had there was um baseball,
basketball, soft girl softball, wrestling program and uh and uh whatnot. So um he has I don't see us taking over any middle school teams. I had, you know, contacted the athletic director
immediately when I I was watching that board of ed meeting when some superintendent made some statements and I I know we want to help out wherever we can, but you know, we just can't we obviously we have to make our own cuts and um and whatnot. So, um and I agree
with taking the uh Porter John's out of that line item and keeping them separate. And I'm glad you decided to keep them in because I was going to make that recommendation to keep them in. Um they are they are needed throughout where we have them and I'm um the parents um they they are utilized by our
parents. So that's it. Those are my comments. Thank you. >> I just had one other question. Um rather than just having a fund for to supplement all these programs, shouldn't each program have the fees that are charged go against that specific program? So we can see programs actually
going. I do not like a slush fund for everything. >> We could do that. I mean as as as Mr. Titak mentioned majority of our programs whatever comes in goes right back out. Like so we have I mentioned earlier um
like we have a volleyball clinic going on right now >> and the way that the the instructors that's a specialized thing that instructor is paid what whatever we bring in. Mhm. >> So, you know, if if they're they do a great job and they get 20 kids, they get, you know, 20 times the fee. >> If they get seven kids, well, that's
that's all they get paid. We don't make any promises to anybody that we're going to pay you x number of dollars from our program. It's based upon registration. >> We just like to see cost centers just like a business would. >> Gotcha. I think that's really important that we move in that direction. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> So, along that those lines, can we then
is senior golf tour is is a regular event in West Orange. >> Yes. >> So, shouldn't that be not just under programs? Shouldn't that be listed? And the built by me, is that a regular program now? >> A Lego one. >> Lego one. Yeah, that's turning into one. That was one of the STEM program. That's
a STEM program >> that we started out as as a pilot program and it's been extremely successful. >> Great. So, can we have the cost of each of those and have them in a line item? >> I'd like to the LEGO program. This again ties back into the trust accounts. The
Lego program is is a vendor that we bring in. what the vendor charges us per student is what we charge per student. So that money is supposed to go back out right back out the door through the through the trust account. So that's just that's >> so then why are we budgeting for it if it's if it's had to come out of the
budget because the trust accounts weren't accessible in the spring. >> Can we just eliminate the trust accounts and put everything right in where it belongs with the with the program that >> had to do with the revenue? >> No, you need the the trust. Okay. Yeah. But th this is a this is a
completely it's paid it pays for itself. So why are we even why are we budgeting for this? >> He's not budgeting for it. We'll we'll reimburse the account. He's only putting the 10,000 in. >> Well, how much is the senior golf tour? >> 7,100
>> and then Lego there's no charge. >> Yeah, Lego will. >> So then you're about $10,000 of spending after in this account. I know we've we've taken out the Johnny on the spot. So,
this this budget should come down. It's not We're only paying for the senior golf tour out of here. >> Well, where's Johnny on the spot going? >> That's going then be covered, too. >> Okay. So, you're taking the the 23 out of the budget for programs.
>> 20 2373 for the John Johnny on the Spots plus the 7,100. And that budget should come down to 9,500. It's actually 9473. >> Where's the 7,100 coming from? >> 7,100 is for the senior golf tour.
>> So why are we taking that out? >> We're not we're we're designating that. That's what that's what this costs. Programs is >> the line. You want the line for senior golf. I understand what you're saying. >> Programs programs has been allocated for three things. Johnny on the spot junior
golf tour and the Lego which is which is in in and out. We don't have any costs. So the actual spend on on this line item is 74 is 9473 and um the ask is 10,000. >> Ah that's pretty much it. Right. You're
pretty much close. >> Right. >> Yeah. I was I was looking at the 15. >> I understand the putting the two separate lines. >> Right. >> The Portage Johns and the uh the sum golf. Yep. Right. >> We'll keep going. Good. Yes.
uh travel team uniforms. That's to council Greer's point there. If we do get a new travel team like we did this past year, we had a third and fourth grade boys team that we unexpectedly got. Um you know, we we got to buy them uniforms, get it started after that, we start rolling the costs of uniforms, uh
into the registration fee for those that need new uniforms because either they lost it or they outgrew it. Um volleyball, same thing for instructors there. Uh lacrosse, we're near the end of that season, so we will spend that money this year. Same thing with spring track. Hopefully they got their meet in
tonight. Um basketball league, I believe I addressed earlier. And then site managers, we still have uh you know, that's an accurate number based on what we expect. We still have some vouchers out from the winter season. We have, you know, spring season, lacrosse. Uh then
we have a summer basketball league coming up. So site managers, I can't stress how important they are. Um, as much as I hate to say it, there were three incidents this year where we had parents come out of the stands and go after referees. >> Oh, good. >> And all three were diffused because we
had a site manager on site. So, they are very important. >> Councilman Koviac, go ahead. >> Yeah, I just uh I I wanted to follow up on this. We've got at least one uh traveling uh line item 220 traveling volleyball that we haven't spent any
money for. I I I think we uh I I want to hear from you why we need to spend this because then I'm probably going to make up motion. It's >> on 220. >> Yes. >> Yeah. That that money has been used to pay for a coach the past several seasons. >> I don't last year I think we just missed
it. I I don't know what happened. I can't tell you what happened last year, but that money has charged >> historically been used to pay for a volleyball coach because that is one sport that we cannot get a volunteer for. So, we usually have to hire a college player or former college player to coach the team.
>> It's It's traveling. It's traveling. I I thank you for the information. I'm I'm making a motion to >> uh strike uh line item 220 for $1,000 >> and not have a traveling volleyball
team. There is no reason if you have a travel team that the parents don't put up the money. They do it for every other traveling team. And if there's not the support, the financial support, then we shouldn't be doing it.
Councilwoman Castelino has it. >> So I have to disagree because the the sport isn't a in so the in the old time in-house sports isn't what all the other towns are doing now. It's their their basic
travel is and and Mr. Johnson could speak to this is like that's the program now. And also these are feeder programs for our high school program which we've had much success with both our boys and girls volleyball teams. Let's not forget
our our school district as well. Um the you know the free reduced lunch um you know we just you know again I I just don't see it that this is a problem. It's $1,000. I know we're looking to cut here and there, but I really think
you're going to affect the program at the high school if you take this program away from the recck department. And if you do have the parents supplement it, I don't think you're going to get as many students uh cons sign up for it, which will be a shame because it will affect
the the uh the program at the high school. That I won't support that, but that's that's just my two cents. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um Mr. Johnson, how many people participate in the traveling volleyball program? How many people
participate in the traveling volleyball program? >> It's a travel program and I'm happy to say that it's a good problem that you know last fall the girls team we had over 20 kids try out and we kept 12. So right now like we're at a spot where like we're doing great for a travel team
but not enough for house yet. So it is it keeps you keep the team of 12 players >> and it's just travel. So there's no regular program for volleyball. There's no other >> No, we do we do do clinics um throughout the year because try to spur interest. Um but there's no league per se for like
an in-house type program because the band's just not there yet. >> So even with MTL and PAL who we partner with for to supplement some of our sports programs. They don't do volleyball. >> No, we don't because we don't want we don't have competing programs. So it's like we don't do soccer. They don't do
soccer. They don't do football. So volleyball is a program that's administered by the recreation department. >> All right. Thank you. I I don't support cutting the traveling program because we have a very successful volleyball program at the high school and they need the experience somewhere. And again, we
have to be mindful that when we're looking at our parks and recreation and the programs that we have, again, this is to supplement some of the activities and sports that we have at the high school. But if we don't have the feeder programs or the support for our our
young athletes to train and develop, then we're going to lose um that at the high school level as well. So, I I agree with you. It's just travel. Um it it it is something that I see value in. If we have students, if you were saying that
there weren't enough tryyouts or or enough not enough participation, then certainly I would support that. but not when we have a good volleyball program at the high school and this will be the feeder to that. >> Okay, we're girls programs are growing
well and now we're trying to develop a boys program >> a little harder. >> I would agree. We don't want to cut a program for $1,000 when all these children are using it. Go ahead. >> I made a motion. Was there a second? >> No. >> No, >> there was not a second. >> No, there was no second. is I I'll just
make sure because we immediately began discussing it when there wasn't a second which suggests to me that you need a second before you do the discussing. So you're I just want to make sure nobody wants to second this. Is that correct?
>> Okay. So the next one uh the lacrosse at 222. What is uh is that a travel team too? >> Yes. >> Okay. I make a motion to uh uh on 222 Lacrosse to uh take out the $1,200 uh
request. >> Is there a second? >> Thank you. On 230 spring track, what is that? Is that a travel? >> That is a travel level program as well that has over 100 participants. >> Okay. I uh make a motion on 230 spring
track to take out the $800 uh in the line item. >> Is there a second >> on 250 MTL basketball league? Is that travel? >> No, that is an in-house program that is for fourth and fifth graders. A partnership we have with the mountaintop league.
>> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Okay. I just Sure. Council, >> I just want to go back to to one issue from the other other page. Um, we talked about protection for the the scoreboard.
>> I'm seeing a lot of very inexpensive options to create a scoreboard cover. >> Um, I don't know why we don't invest in that instead of carrying it in the rain. >> I'll be happy to look at it. >> I see for very large for very large uh
scoreboards under $200. I I agree. >> To create a >> to control the the panel. >> Yes. >> And they can still do what they need to do on the panel >> to co to cover the whole board. So that >> Well, it's not the scoreboard that's a problem. It's the control box. >> And for those things, they you can also
create a roof over over the over the box. >> Okay. >> That could be a much more effective >> and cheaper alternative. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And we have such great people in DPW who can build things. Let's just
>> I didn't $1,000 a month. We go back to that line. Be careful what you say. >> I like the plans. >> Increase the overtime line. >> Yeah. >> The overtime. >> I tried I tried to say something nice about the guys, you know. Hey,
>> so for the scoreboard, I think we should go back and and and talk about that instead of you haven't had any repairs now and maybe you can get get that going really soon. >> Right, >> dude. If you think there's something there that's
>> inexpensive, then >> what's the amount? >> It's a $1,000 lot. I mean, I just >> Well, you may need that $1,000 to build a cover, >> right? >> Um, possibly buy the cover to buy the cover. >> Well, no. To have DPW guys build a cover or shed or something.
>> Might even be engineered. You never know what the cost going to be. >> Yeah. >> Leave it for $1,000. >> Yeah. Forward. They want to settle the bank. >> Are you to bring this this down? >> Okay.
>> You said like a 6.4% increase. So if you if you do that, that's that's $10,000. >> And I have a second one. That >> um you have the language. Go ahead. >> All right. So originally, Councilwoman Williams talked about just bringing this
down from the 6.41% increase. And >> we already took 5,500 out. >> I know you did. And you've done a fantastic job. You really have. And and I'm just amazed by hearing about all these programs. And I want to come to to all of the crafting ones. >> I'll send your mail. >> Yes. Send it to me in the mail.
>> I get the email. >> Okay. >> So the difference between between uh the 6.4 if we zeroed this out, we're looking at a $10,000 savings. And so I'd like to make a motion to reduce this whole
budget by $10,000. you figure it out and um Okay. And you've done a great job. >> Okay. Hold on a second. We appreciate it. >> What question? >> Yes.
>> Does that include the eight you already took out on the other line item or wanted to take out on the printing? Are >> they took 5,500 out already? They took 5,500 out. So if they're taking 10 out, you got even less money
than last year. >> All right. So got it. So So um 10 minus 5500. So take out another 4500 >> and the line. >> Yeah. To zero the line out. >> Zero the increase. >> Is it? >> Yeah, that sounds good.
>> So I'll resend my second again so that we can have the motion language. Correct. Mhm. So, >> so then what we since we've already taken out, we need to reduce this another $4,500 and then we will have zeroed this out. Is that correct, Mr. >> Dutiniac? It's a less.
>> It's a it's a little less. Yeah. So, if if you just if you just wanted to zero it out. >> Yeah, that works. Second. >> Okay. Well, hold >> I'll give you the number, Karen. >> I think that's the easiest way to do it. Just >> Can you give it to me right now, please?
>> And I'm going to save you some more money on another page. they'll be happy. >> So, the motion should be for an additional $3,495.14 because you already cut $5,500 out. >> So, if I may.
>> Mhm. The reason why I am adverse to giving you finite numbers is because if you go back and make any adjustments or your numbers were off or as we're going through and finalizing, if we've made a
motion for a specific dollar amount, then that doesn't give you the wiggle room that you need to zero it out. even if you're off by a dollar or $10. But if we tell you to zero it out and our $3,000 number is off, it doesn't matter because all we asked you to do was zero
it out. >> Okay. I I think the motion should be a motion to set the budget at 140,3486 >> because that's what last year's budget was. That zeros it out. I >> What was the number? I think that's the best way to do it.
>> Okay. Can you repeat that number? >> Set the budget at $140,34.86. >> 86 >> 8686. >> Do you want me to second your motion? >> No, he can't. >> I can't make the motion. Yes. >> Say it again. >> All right.
>> The motion is to reduce the budget to $140,34.86. >> Second. to set the budget at. To set the budget at >> Is that a motion? >> Yes, that's the motion. >> I'll second it. >> And so why are we doing the 86 cents?
Why can't we make it 14305? >> You do whatever you want. Yeah, it's fine. >> Can we just go back already? >> We deal with the numbers. >> Okay. >> All right. $140,3486. Is that correct? >> Technically, yes. >> I know you don't like the 86. >> I don't.
>> I got you. >> All right. Um, is there any discussion on that? >> No. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President, >> yes.
>> The motion carries. >> Okay. >> Budget. >> We get a motion for five minutes so we can use the restroom. >> No, we have we have celebration. just finished recreation so he could go.
>> It's It's 8:00. I've been sitting here for 4 hours. Like I have to >> Yeah, I Okay. You really need Go ahead. Five minutes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> You guys You guys are really driving it hard today. Set timing for five minutes. >> Okay, everybody, we're back.
>> Okay. Okay, everybody, we're back. Thank you for sticking in with us and uh let's finish up. >> Okay, so we're going to move to the celebration of public events. Mhm. >> Um there there is a uh a modified uh page from from the Department of
Recreation. Um that's page three of your of your uh your supplement there. And um >> No, I know. I know. I'm trying to trying to go to the original.
Oh, >> 181. >> Yes. So it's 181 is the original page. Um the original request was for 84,500. The revised request is for 64,625,
a reduction of 19,875. Um, I don't know if you want to do what we did before where you you at least approve the revised version and then you can start from there or if you have a different idea. >> You want to go with the revised version?
Yeah, I think so. Okay. >> I move that we accept the revised uh version of the 2020 >> second >> celebration of public events. >> Okay. Any discussion?
Um, Councilwoman Castleino. >> No. Well, wait. Not yet. Let me No. Is he going to go down each line or No. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is the vote on the revision. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Yes. No. I'm good
with the revision. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Yes. >> Council President Scarf. The motion carries. >> Now, can we have uh Mr. Johnson go through each of these? I think he's ready. >> Sure. So, uh, Fourth of July, it's our
marquee event, but, you know, we we've changed the scope of the event. So, right there, you know, we took off almost $10,000 cuz it's not needed for what we're doing. Um, you know, we're going to have one less band. Um, we're not doing fireworks anymore. So, that was
a fair decision to adjust that budget to something that's more reflective of the event. It is our marquee event. Um, so that's why that blinds were brought down to 25,000. Uh, tree lighting 10,000. That is the cost of the event, including the installation of decorations for town
hall. Um, old-timers day. Yeah, we only spent 2380 last year. Um, but that is also a weather dependent event. It's um it's more so a senior citizen, younger, older adult event. So, it is very weather dependent. Um, so that's why we
asked to keep that at 3,400 because if we get nice weather, we do expect a bigger crowd. Uh, Veterans Day line item we're going to remove. Uh, we've not spent that money in several years. Um, not sure what they originally allocated for. Uh, Halloween, um, you know, $2,500. That should be
sufficed to run that event there. Uh, anniversary celebrations, that is a new line. Uh that is basically just in honor of in recognition of the 250th anniversary this year just to do some additional uh events. That's a onetime thing. So you will not see that line
next year. Uh line 206 should read spring celebration. That's our spring event. Uh we held it at Rock Spring this year uh for the first time and it was an absolute tremendous success. We had arts and crafts, photo booth, uh a reptile show, which the kids really loved. And
then, uh, in talking with Keer representatives up there, uh, we're going to find a way to incorporate an egg hut into it because that was one of the most, uh, popular questions we were asked that day. Uh, so that's what that Lisa line at at 12:25 because that's uh, reflective of what that event costs.
Uh fishing derby has not been around for the past several years, but we've been approached by the PBA to bring it back uh towards the end of August. So I think that's a great idea. It's a great family event, so that's why there is a new ask there for $500.
Uh 210 sports and games night. Um we asked for $2,000 there. Uh last year's event got rained out, so that was that charge there is not a reflection of the full event. Uh some of the other events we've gotten rid of Super Bowl Sunday. The award ceremony hasn't happened in several years. Uh Big Help Day was a
long long time ago. Um Memorial Wall is gone and summer series. Uh we've we've reduced that. Um that was you know a lot of the summer concerts and also with the construction going on at OPAC we don't as have as much as the need. And also just to a question that was asked earlier you know in reviewing the budget
and the summer series uh also to your point we really need to get the return on investment on it. So, we're kind of scaling that back a little bit and hoping that fewer events will lead to bigger crowds. >> Okay. Councilwoman Castelino had her hand up. >> So, question, a couple questions and
comments. Um, in regards I'm glad you're doing the fish and derby in August because it being the same day as town street fair was kind of, you know, competing. Um, >> so thank thank you for that.
Sports and games is always a big success when the weather is when when the weather is there and and when it's not when the weather is bad, do you reschedule that event? >> Do you reschedule sports and games if it rains?
>> Do you There is no rain date >> there. Oh, there isn't a rain day. >> No, because that's that's held on the Friday before we open fulltime. So the next day we're we're open for the season and you know they're >> all right. So I would ask you to look at that kind of that back a little bit. Um
the summer series 2, what do you have planned for summer series and what do you have planned for the Rev 250? Those are my questions for you. >> I'll get you next. Councilman, >> this is the summer series. There's already one band booked. Um, we're still
working on possible a second ban, but that is kind of tied into the the construction on OPAC. >> Where the council >> and then the rev 250 cuz I you know I'm saying if if you >> we're looking to use that to enhance
Fourth of July, you know, tie all the celebrations in for that. So just some more 250 related events, giveaways, stuff like that to kind of just try tie into the spirit and hopefully draw some more people to our event. So, because my recommendation on this page would be to
when do you think you'd have everything else planned out because we're probably not going to close this out to July. Um, so I would hope you'd have everything planned by July what you're going to do for for those two categories so we could get more real numbers from you and then
we could change those line items once you have your planning completed. >> Mhm. because I don't want to short change you, but I also don't think you're going to need all that money for both of them, >> Councilman. >> That's again, that's I don't want that
to be on us. That should be on you. >> That's it. Those are my comments and I'll let you >> let my colleagues add to them and we you guys could have conversation. >> Okay. Go ahead, Councilman. >> So, on the 4th of July, last year we
spent under $20,000, but you wanted to raise it to $25,000. What's what's the rationale for that? >> We are having difficulty securing a stage rental from the county. So I have to go to a private vendor which is costing us more. Um last year we did not
hire a DJ for the event uh which is going to be hired hired us as opposed to a band. Um and then we're also we're adding more interactive elements to the event this year for people that are eating their food during the fruit truck festival. So because a lot of people are just kind of standing around looking now we got like a juggler, you know, face
painting. were any more interactive elements to the event >> on the high school too? >> Go ahead, Councilman. >> On 205 anniversary celebrations, uh what sort of programs have you uh determined? I mean, it's it is May. Uh what sort of
programs are you are you planning here? >> Sorry, I missed the question. Was 205. >> Yes. >> Uh 205 I'm really just getting started on because I did not put that line in there myself. I inherited that line. Um so I think that's something that really
I need to start working on quickly. Um but that is also the line up for discussion as uh both council members have uh presented. Um but there is a strong desire from the township that you know we should be celebrating 250 um especially with our historical
significance to everything. So we try to do something something a little more than just our run-of-the-mill Fourth of July event. And I'm not saying that as a negative thing but it is 250. Some of you guys may have noticed the banner hanging outside town hall. Uh that was the first thing we've done. So that is a
work in progress. Um I didn't that is the number that is open for discussion. >> Okay. >> Uh so on 205 I uh move to reduce the allocation from $10,000 to $7,500.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah, I'll second that. No. >> So, he he has a second. So, we can vote on that. >> We have a discussion. Go ahead. >> I'm sorry, Councilman. What was the You're reducing it to what?
>> Line 205 anniversary celebrations reduce the $10,000 proposed allocation to 7500. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Let's have a >> I swear I'll raise my hand. Councilwoman Williams wants has her hand up. >> Yeah. Thank you, uh, Council President. Thank you, uh, Council Member for
bringing that to our attention. Um, I I just two two months out, $10,000 for an event and we have the town that is going to do something. Um, I I just think that this can come out of the rec department and
we can focus on the increased amount request for the Fourth of July. I I understand Rev 250 is a monumental thing. Um but we can't celebrate everything at the expense of we don't even have a concept yet. So I would
recommend that that come completely out of the budget for 2025. >> Is that a motion? >> No, the motion. Sorry. Okay. >> But I just wanted to express my desire for that not to even be reduced, just be eliminated. Councilwoman Castelino has
her hand up. >> Yeah, thank you. So, yeah, I I agree with the, you know, having the extra money in there for to do something special for the Fourth of July. I I could support that. I don't want to yank that whole um line item because there is
a whole rest of the year and and I think we can do something pretty cool before the end of the year. And so, you know, I would I would like to, you know, again, we have another month before we get this document completed and I'd like to give
them an opportunity to come back with something tangible that we could vote on. Um, so I wouldn't close out the page. I would um I would give them an opportunity. I think, you know, I you know, we all remember as a kid the
bicesentennial and um I think this is a big deal. that our nation's 250 years old and and we don't have to spend $10,000. Maybe it's five. Uh but we need to do something to recognize it. I think it's important. Um
and it may not have to be that costly, but I think you need to take the time, director. I I know you inherited the activity and I know you've been, you know, trying to get everything. you've done an excellent job uh down a person in your department trying to get all this off the ground for the spring
season knowing how complicated scheduling is. Um but yeah, I'd like to give you an opportunity to think of an event. Um but yeah, not $10,000, maybe five. Um >> Williams, when you're done >> and that's it. So, yeah. So, I I I I
would uh either >> wait and and table that line item and go back for his, you know, go back when we're at the end of the budget or uh or reduce it to to five right now. >> I would I wouldn't remove it all
together. >> Okay. Councilwoman Ruden, >> I support removing it all together. >> Okay. Councilman Kokoviac, >> I certainly don't uh with this our 250th National Anniversary only comes around once every 250 years. So, I don't I
don't uh agree with reducing it. I am uh that much to eliminate it. I'm I'm very concerned that again it's May and uh this has not gotten the focus of the uh recreation department that I I think it
deserved starting last year. We knew it was coming up last year. So I'm concerned that that that we may be uh not be able to spend this and not be able to spend it smartly. So I I I still want to try to celebrate, but I I don't
think 10,000 is the appropriate amount. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second for the reduction to $7,500. >> All right, I'll take the vote. Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no.
>> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarpa, >> no. >> Okay, the motion fails. So, I make a motion to reduce this line item to $5,000. >> I'll second that. Okay. Any discussion?
Yes. >> Okay. Go ahead. I I I would just like to remind our colleagues that we are in a terrible budget situation and we have to find cuts somewhere and every cut is painful but we are celebrating um Rev
Rev 250. The township is celebrating it and we will have a nice Fourth of July event and this is just an add-on and it is not a necessity at this point. Rev 250 is very important, but but this is
not the time to start planning for an event that that is so significant and and it's going to be very last minute. >> Woman Williams. >> Yeah, I obviously with my previous vote and statement, I just want to concur
because again, you uh are already focusing on and continuing your planning for the 4th of July. to add in another thing. Um, it's just cumbersome and and we have some planning around town. So, if there's a place where we can cut and it's not painful because it's not taking
away from a program that's already in existence, this would be the location. Nothing's planned. It's just a nice to have and it's $10,000. Let's get rid of it. >> Some work as well. >> Is there a motion?
I beckoned it. >> Okay. >> To reduce to 5,000, >> but there was discussion. So, >> yeah. >> Um, well, maybe come up with what you think would be really meaningful and if there's not something that you think could really make a difference, we'll cut it later.
>> As you guys have done yet, we're working on Fourth of July now. And, you know, whatever number you end up with the decision, we'll just we'll we'll adjust. >> So, if I may, go ahead. So there are no plans for Rev 250 right now.
>> No plans. He's working on the 4th of July, >> right? >> Very busy. >> A lot of things. >> So again, why reinvent? >> It doesn't mean it's impossible. Doesn't mean it's impossible. I mean, it's just it's again, this is a decision. >> I think we have >> before me.
>> So So >> we do have enough. We have enough. >> We do. and and this is a area where we can eliminate and and again it's not because the town doesn't want to do something. This is just a place where no planning has taken place and it's easy to eliminate.
>> Councilwoman Castelina when you're finished >> I I I agree what you're saying. So what I think what I like to do is reduce it to 5,000 tonight. we don't consent on the page and if there is something that
he doesn't come back with by the time we close out the book then then we we take it out then I like for them to think about it and I also like to know what and I'm fine with not doing another activity but making sure Fourth of July
is significant enough for Rep 250 if it's but again I hear you councilwoman it it should have been planned already because we've been talking about this for uh over a year now. So, um not to have something on the table is is is a little disappointing
and also understandable why you don't want to support it. I I 100% agree with you, >> right? I agree. >> If it's not significant, let's not do it. If you have something that you think is a deal break, that's great. >> You know, it's another thing.
>> Thank you. Now, can we call the vote? >> Sure. Councilwoman Castelino >> reduce to 5,000. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes.
>> Uh, the motion carries. >> But we want >> I I don't want to consent on the page yet. >> Okay. >> I I have another motion. Um I know again we're talking about uh
where we can cut with our celebration of public events. So for the summer series I just am my motion is >> well let me not make a motion but my understanding is is that if these are held at Ospac
is not going to be ready this year. Um so then given that if that is correct is OSPAC going to be complete the re repairs are going to be complete because it's my understanding that all OSPback events are going to be moved to another location >> through through August. Right now we're
at through August. The the intention is that September at least you know at some point in September it's going to be done uh hopefully for Jazzfest. That's our target goal right now and then we would have a fall concert. Um >> so is this $10,000? >> That would be that would be the other half of that other half of that $10,000.
So where does the where where does where's the budget line for is that not come out of playhouse productions monies >> with summer series >> the the concerts the concerts are are the responsibility of the recreation department we're just using Ospac they're not they're recreation
department events they're not OspC events >> and councilwoman Castelino had her hand up >> just let me because I'm not I don't I don't understand the difference >> more questions yeah >> so summer series consists of what being held at OSAC? How many
>> the concerts? Two two concerts. >> Two concerts and and a movie night and a movie night and a movie night was what we have done historically. >> And when are they typically held? >> One would be in June. Movie night was in August and then the second concert was in September. >> Okay. >> So we've taken the first concert which
is at 5,000 up there told them you know the situation and they're held over to next year. >> Okay. So then that means automatically we can take $5,000 from this line item and put it in next year's budget. Okay. So that's the first thing. Now you just explained to us that it's normally two
events. So two two remaining events and I would assume that that would mean $2,500 for both. >> No, the movie night is is is a couple $600 for the rental for that stuff. The bands are close to $5,000. So, are you anticipating still doing the
movie night later on in the year or at a >> movie night? Movie night's probably not going to happen this year just because of the timing. Okay. And then once you start getting in September with school being back in session, it's in very difficult to find a slot. >> And hopefully if this construction keeps going well and we're able to do something in September or even early
October, we have done in October before have an event there in October. >> Cine. So then I would like to make the recommendation, not the motion yet because we're still in discussion, but that we definitely reduce that uh line item to half 5,000.
>> And Councilwoman Castelino was next whenever you're finished. >> That's all I have. I just >> Okay, Councilwoman. >> Okay. So, you know, I and I agree with Councilwoman Williams. Um so yeah, because to have a concert up at Liberty Middle School, I don't think you're going to get the attendance. It's not
worth the money. But what I would like to see you do is bring back if it's possible, and I I'm not sure how much it cost you, but when you did the driveth through movie night at at the high school for movie night, I thought that
was a great crowd, great turnout you had a couple years back. And uh it was just, you know, the family seemed to really enjoy that. I'm not sure if that's something you could plan at this stage or you know how much that would cost you, but that was a pretty cool thing to
do. But and even October event I'm not I don't get too excited about because everybody's back in their sports programs and and all the um all the PTAs are doing all of their you know their fall events welcoming back to school
festivals and I just think it's too competing with everything else that goes on. So, if you don't do anything in the summer, uh, but you know, one movie, I'm good with that, too. So, I would definitely reduce this. So, I'll I'll let you decide, uh, recommend what you
know, you think you'd be able to get pull off for the summer, one or two movies. >> I'm done. That's it. >> Okay. Um, you've you've already booked um the Richard James Thomas concert, correct?
>> And that cost 3250. So, where were you planning and when were you planning on on having that? >> That was the ban that was going to be early in the year before this whole construction thing started. So, they're the ones being held over to next year. >> So, we don't have to pay them this year
if we are just we've just reserved them. >> Correct. >> Okay. And then you have one film that where would we do the film? >> Well, go to Drawback. I'm thinking of doing two at the pool cuz the pool is popular. Counciloman just mentioned the
drive-in movie night. Um I haven't figured out where the second movie is going to be just yet. >> So if it's at the pool, is that open to the entire public? >> Yes. >> All right. Um so I'm I'm going to I'm going to make a motion to reduce this to
$1,000 just to give you some money to make to to do maybe some film nights because there there's no other spending that will take place this this year. So, you're requesting 10,000. >> This this this concert is moving to next
year. >> Yeah. But he needs more than $1,000. >> This is how >> Yeah. Usually the rental for the the big 20 foot inflatable screen is like $600 for >> right two nights. That's $1,200. >> Right. Um then I'll reduce it to 2500.
Okay. I'll second that. >> I That's a motion. I make a motion to reduce this line item to 2500. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Is there any discussion? >> No. Seeing none, let's take the vote.
>> Before we vote, is that enough? Uh, Mr. Johnson, 2500 for two movie nights. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay, good. Okay, I'm good. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Yes. >> Uh, Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. >> Council President Scar. >> Yes. >> The motion. >> No. Because all these they've only they've only spent 92. Oh, they're going to it's ridiculous. We can reduce it 15 to 15 to
>> Yes, they will. Okay. So, um I'd like to look at two more things on this on this. Um one is the 4th of July. Um, from from looking at what you've spent, I mean, and and also what you've what you've
described, you have a bouncy house, a juggler, face painting, a DJ. Is that what you DJ? >> Yes. >> And what else do you have? >> There's a band. >> And a band. >> A band. There's a band. And there's also going to be a tent rental >> and a tent, >> which are, you know, they are fairly expensive. So,
>> all of that has been has been or ordered. >> It's ordered. Yeah. Not all of what's been covered in covered here yet, but we do have quotes and stuff working through the system. >> Okay. So, um my understanding is that total for that is 9,800
and you're asking for um 25. So, if we're dealing with the real cost of what you need for the 4th of July, plus you now have gotten 5,000 extra to add to that budget from the from the Rev Rev.
Yeah. The anniversary celebrations. I'd like to make a motion to reduce this by 15 um 152 >> 15 wait 25 I'm sorry it's so hard to see this on on the screen >> to reduce this
>> yeah reduce this to 9800 >> which are which are the actual cost the 4th of July plus you have a $5,000 reserve 7,000 right there. >> I have a question. >> You want to reduce the item to 9800?
>> Yes. >> 10 DJ 10. >> So I don't think that's enough. Is that >> is that not enough? last last year. >> We still have the the cost of the tent and the stage which aren't booked in
that. >> And how much will that be? >> $10,000. >> $10,000 for the tent. >> Stage. Yeah. >> Yes. >> And then you you said the DJ. >> So then So then we're at $19,800.
>> Councilwoman has a great make a recommendation. We we we have we have like he has a month before we get this done. We're not going to consent tonight. Let him let him He'll know by in a couple weeks how much how much whatever else he's going to need for
this event to finalize it. So, why don't you just let him get us the real number of exactly what he's going to spend? >> I agree. >> He knows not to go over. >> In conversation with my special events coordinates, it's close to $25,000. I just said $10,000 in in those items
there. We haven't even talked about giveaways, patriotic stuff, you know, other little stuff in the event that's going on. um you know little prizes for kids for the you know the win to do culoo contest stuff like that. So we're probably gonna be closer to 25,000 when all said and done.
>> Um and then that $5,000 250 you know I basically been tasked here tonight to pull something off and that's going to be my goal. >> Me too. What? >> Last year you you had nearly 20,000 if we go back to last year's budget and
plus you're adding another 5,000 in for all of those giveaways that will make the the event special. >> I think that's enough money. So, I would like to make I'd like >> I think I think we're going we're micromanaging this this department right now. This is the Revolution 250. This is
the Fourth of July celebration. It happens once a year. It's our parade of parades. Um, the director is putting together a budget. Councilwoman Castelino suggested that the the director put together a budget, an item, and then we can come back to you and then we can give you a real number.
We're not going to consent tonight. We're not going to figure it. So, just to arbitrarily cut something without him getting the final figures. I think it's unfair to him to do his job. >> I agree. >> And I think we should give him the latitude. We've spoken on all these other pages that you give the money and let the director run the department. So,
let the director run the department and come back to you. I think that I think it's in fairness to him and his staff to get this done and in a couple we're meeting on the on on June 16th anyway. So, we should be able to have all the prices. We can bring it up to date on that. We're supposed we're going to have
another meeting I think at the end of June and so this will all be the numbers will be more solid before we get to the 4th of July. >> That's fair. That's fair. That's fair. Fair and fair has his hand and everything you are saying makes perfect
sense for where we are now. I just want to make the point that the budget process is for a budget that starts January 1st and you're as familiar with our ordinances as I am. This all process
should have started last year. So it's just it just my expectation is that except in extraordinary circumstances that we have all of these programs, all of this costing done before January 1.
>> And and uh again, I don't disagree with you. Where we are now is where we are now. And this makes perfect sense. We should have this stuff nailed down January 1. in my opinion >> that's that's the way it's always been >> in my private sector career. So just
wanted to >> Castelino as her hand up. >> All right. Thank you. And again, so to Councilman's point, um you know, new director trying to trying to do things a little bit differently. Number one. Number two, folks, I don't know about
you, but I get a lot of heat that we don't have the fireworks anymore. People are ticked off in this town that we don't have the fireworks. And so to have a a you know an event that the wreck tries to put on without fireworks is
hard is is extremely hard. They've been successful with the past couple years with the event they put out at the library. I think they're going to have a bigger crowd this year because of the 250 number one. And number two, it's because it's back at the high school uh
on the Caporti field, which is going to bring more people there than the library. So again, just, you know, we it used to it would have cost us way over 40,000 with the fireworks. Um you know, it's all about balance. It's all about
balance. It's all about balance. And that's all I'm going to say. I just let's give them an opportunity to come back to us. Let's not consent and just move on to the next page. I'm going to send you save you $20,000 on the next page. So, you'll be happy. >> Can I just ask how much the fireworks
did cost? >> $40,000. >> 40. >> Okay. >> Back then. >> Back then. >> It was just two years ago. >> Go ahead. >> I I would just like to ask how much it costs um to have the tree lighting the the tree decorated. >> It was
4,700. that that includes not just the tree but the all the decorations on the front of town hall on the the maple trees and that's installation and removal. >> Okay. So, and what else do you need money for? Because that's $10,000 for for like an hour or two event. I
understand the >> Well, we have the trade trade rides >> for a month. >> The petting zoo. >> Yeah, >> petting zoo. I heard a bunch of voices at the same time. >> Inflatables. Um >> booth. Hot chocolate. >> Hot chocolate. We've been paying out out
of that past couple years. >> Uh Shopright used to be great about donating cookies. They don't anymore. >> Um so, you know, there's there's that that goes towards the event. >> They're getting coal and they're stalking. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, you know, like like I kind of let
off with like these numbers here are not madeup numbers. They're not numbers that I'm going this is what I want. This is my pie in the sky. >> This is what it cost. Joanne, the rest of the staff, we had long conversations. It was actually a benefit that I didn't go into my originally scheduled slot
because we were able to take a really, really good look at this >> and we're trying to be fair to all sides here. >> You said that the sports and game night did not happen last year yet. There was still a um >> a charge of,00.
>> How is that possible? You said >> we bought supplies. >> So you you have those supplies. >> Okay. for this year. So, why would we have any expense this year? >> Because that doesn't include uh paying for the the food that we give
away as part of the admission ticket. Uh it doesn't include stuff that we need to replace cuz the inflatables don't last forever and those little plastic patches they give you in the package don't work. So, there's that $1,100 was a lot of the stuff. And also, you know, taking a good idea, a lot of
that stuff that's in June. We might have used some of that stuff at other events too. Fourth of July cuz it's little chachki type stuff that we would have for oriental training, SNS, those kind of places. So it might have been reused. Not like sitting on the shelf saying this is for sports and games night. We probably took it to 4th of July. We probably took it to another event we
might have had. >> Might have been sold. >> No, I'm only joking. Given away. >> May not even be here. Okay. Thank you for all you do. >> Um Okay. We're going to hold >> we're not going to consent on this.
>> Yeah. >> I just want to add that, you know, residents have been asking us to do the drone fireworks. So, >> I'm telling you to have a nice event. >> Yeah. That's been brought up and that's probably going to be closer to the $25,000 figure. >> Yeah. >> And remember, you know, we being our
Fourth of July, we are going to have to pay a premium for anything we do. >> We need to have fun. It's all about balance. It is about balance and balancing this budget is important. I know well
>> not easy not easy. >> Thank you for all you do. I know it's hard stepping you know and cleaning up well against stew and I completely appreciate it. >> That phrase uh has retired >> wanted you right
What is this? >> Well, I wanted to make it clear that you're on the clean up on aisle 9. >> Yes. Yes. And after that, I'll get to aisle eight, then seven, then six, then five, and >> in between scheduling wreck games, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh, you know, worried about lights being on and track meets. So, >> we're going to move to community services, recreational, and civic contracts. Um,
>> Councilman, do you do you want me to bring up your notes first or just >> Yeah. >> Council President, I just put together an entire page of suggested uh >> So, you start >> modifications. So, it might >> if it uh >> Yes, I'd appreciate it. >> My colleagues agree, we might take care
of it. If not, we'll just >> I'm going to bring it up on the screen and u try to make it bigger. >> Well, the the Mr. Dinia, can you just I'm sorry to interrupt, but can you just take out the downtown that we discussed earlier? >> Sure. Sure. We will start even in there.
>> Um so we have I just want to bring everyone's attention to line 215 downtown West Orange. There was an ask for 20,000. the downtown alliance was able to secure a grant. >> Yeah. >> So that they do not need this funding
for this year. >> Um so the ask is for the governing body to remove $20,000 from line 215 for downtown West Orange. We are on page >> 175.
Thank you. So again, the ask is that the council remove $20,000 from line 215 downtown West Orange downtown Alliance secured a grant. They don't need this funding. Um
and so we're asking for it to be move uh removed. >> Thank you. >> Here I'll make that motion to remove $20,000 alliance. >> Okay. >> For downtown West Orange >> line number 215. >> Okay.
>> Madame clerk. Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scarpa, >> yes. >> Motion carries.
>> Um, now I will turn over the screen to uh the analysis completed by Councilman Koviaak and and uh noting that we did take the the 20,000 out of the 2026 budget. up. >> Thank you, Mr. Tiniac. I just thought it
might be uh more efficient if we considered all of this at one time. And again, you'll see at the title uh at the top, I say sharing the pain. And I'm suggesting that we uh incorporate the the need to reduce uh the tax increase
uh across the field here. And uh with taking out this $20,000, it changes it a little bit, but not not really. The first thing I'd like to everybody to look at is uh on the 2006
uh paid charge, we uh this I don't know whether you can see it, but it's this it's $49,500. If you uh go to the next line, which is the proposal for 2026, you can see that
it's it goes up by well over uh 100% between what we spent last year and what we're proposing to spend this year. So then I want to just sort of move over to what I'm suggesting that we consider. uh
starting at the top with line 200 on MTL. I'm suggesting for some of these longtime uh recipients that we cut uh by a third. I'm suggesting that for MTL, suggesting that for PAL, uh suggesting that for the
senior citizens, and suggesting that for the PTA on uh the Luna stage, I'm suggesting a 50% cut on Ospac, which is one of my favorite things about West Orange. I'm still
suggesting a 50% cut particularly considering that uh a lot of the programming is not going to be on site and is going to be uh I don't know whether it's that's been agreed to but over at uh Liberty Middle School uh was
what was being talked about. >> Uh going further down uh West Orange Elite which looks like it's being funded for the first time. I'm suggesting a 33% reduction. Uh the Little League, which is uh I think new this year, reducing
that proposal by 33%. And the uh West Orange Classic Film Festival, um suggesting a 50% cut. And uh uh the Classic Film Festival is one of my favorite things in uh in the in the town. It's uh sponsored by the West
Orange Arts Council. So, I'm going to uh soften the blow by making a thousand dollar donation just to cut into that little bit because I certainly I know it's under pressure. It's a great event. I wish people would would do it, but I I
want to make sure it it's around uh next year. So the so the bottom line here now is that uh with the proposed amendments instead of spending 112,900 I'm sorry uh $50 $112,50
that we reduce it overall to 53,582. Uh that we reduce it by a little more than uh 50%. The 58, uh uh 468, that's a reduction of 52%. And it's we still fund everything uh uh
to a certain extent. And that means that the increase from our 2025 actual uh actually only increases by a little under $4,100. So it's it's only going to go up 8.2% which is not insignificant.
And uh but the decrease from the proposed 2026 budget is the 58,468 which is uh as I mentioned earlier a 52% uh cut. So I I don't know whether it's
appropriate to uh consider everything as as one. I was hoping that would be appropriate. Uh but I I would suggest if it is appropriate that we just consider that uh in a motion and uh then my colleagues can can
speak their piece. The one thing >> Calino had her hand. >> Hold on a minute. >> Ju just just before we we move on the one um thing I want to note is that for 203 and 204 senior citizens and PTA we don't have anything budgeted for 2026. Um so there is no ask for for either of
those groups for 26. That's the the one note I want to make. So the the amounts for those are zero for 26. >> Castelino, go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. And I get where you're going from, Councilman. Um, so here's
where I stand with this. Um the mount top and the um and the uh PAL have been a longstanding wreck programs and the uh the basketball they fill out uh their paperwork. They give reporting
every year to Mr. um and the little league now to Mr. uh uh the recck department used to be Mr. Kio um because we don't have those inhouse programs as you know cuz your your son had played um and that always was to
subsidize you know for insurance cost and and other other significant measures and also to keep the user fees down for all the players uh little league and elite basketball which happens also over the summer. I mean I mean parents again
I I get what you're saying with starting it earlier with the budget and you know the this has already been priced out. So I know the b the little league basketball club the parents already wrote checks and and paid for programs
already based on these numbers. So I I'm I'm not touching any of these numbers. The only one is OPAC because of what's going on. I don't know what they need. you're on the committee and I'm not sure if you talked it over with your committee if they're okay to take that
cut, but I know one thing. Um, years ago, we gave the community house money until they um they had other sources of funding and um and so we took them off and then we took the money to give it to OPAC and to give it to the down
downtown. Now, downtown was able to secure some money so they came off this year. um they're not asking Ozac I I don't know what they need and not need. So um I'm reluctant to do the 338 unless you talk to your committee and they're
okay with it. So if you have that confirmation, you would know you're our liaison. But other than that, I I don't want to touch the money. Luna stage, Mr. Johnson, do they provide you with the um do they have to fill out the paperwork for a cooperative program
>> because doesn't >> they and the whole reason for that is that they are securing large grants and they have a a big bankroll. We we'd say to them, listen, you know, we you know, we could we we do this to help out to
subsidize the cost for our our uh our residents and um and whatnot. and even the film festival. Uh I'm reluctant because we took away all the other money. So anyway, that's that's where it's it's at
for me. Um um I don't want to touch any of the line items. And then if you have a confirmation of what OPAC needs, I didn't get a chance to talk to uh to Camille over there. So maybe you could, you know, maybe you could share if you
had discussion with your board. >> Council. >> Yes. for for OPAC. OPAC just got a $100,000 grant. Yeah. >> From one of the local develop a gift a gift from a local developer >> and that was intended for programming. I
due to construction and the fact that we've gotten this grant. I think that entire category should be removed this year. >> And I make a motion to remove three 3,300 to zero it out. >> I second that for Ospot. That's line
item 206. Yeah, I can't support that. >> There's no programming this there this year. And they just got a $100,000 grant. >> There is programming. They're having a um they're having uh their shows at Liberty.
>> The programming should be paid through the grant, not >> though. And you know, it councilman Koviaak, I'll get you as soon as council. My understand my understanding is that the uh grant comes with uh
>> gift >> I'm sorry the gift I apologize but I have coffee so in another 10 minutes be back on track >> but uh the OPEC is planning to take that money and and spend it over the next
five perhaps six years on programming. It's not all that's going to be done this year. The second thing is the plan unless something has changed and and uh Mr. Johnson would probably know before I did because there OPEC only has quarterly meetings. The plan is to have
virtually all of the programming done at uh Liberty Middle School. So it is continuing on the uh we'll be the OPAC will be incurring significant expenses going forward and hopefully the the
we'll be able to return uh late summer for the the jazz festival. So So that's the plan with with uh with the gift. >> Okay. At 100,000.
>> Yes. But so so even if even if you max out and use all 33,000 this year, which kind of would be surprising since it's going to be probably self-contained inside the school, >> um then we'd >> they have Jazz Fest, >> we'd still have programming for three
years from the gift. >> So I I maintain my request to to remove that. >> Okay, >> okay, let's take the vote. Yes. Count. Oh, >> do we have a second? I didn't hear a second. >> Yes, we have. There was a sec.
>> I just want to remind everybody they still do they're still doing jazzfest and other things in in in the fall. >> They might be left in your vote. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Castelino. >> Uh, no. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> No. >> Councilwoman Ruden?
>> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams? >> No. >> Council President Scarpa? >> No. >> All right. I'd like to make make another motion regarding this line item like to reduce it to 50%. >> Can we hold on a second please?
>> Um, so I went blank one. >> Okay, hold on one second. >> I went blank on the vote. I'm sorry. >> Vote and just ask for >> Yeah, I need I need the vote. >> Do you know what the vote is? I went totally blank.
>> Yes, it was uh >> uh 41 >> 41 Four nos to one. >> Thank you. Sorry. And who was the one? Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Ruden. Thank you. >> Thank you. Sorry about that. I literally
just like blanked out. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I'll second it if you >> All right. I'm sorry, Councilwoman Williams. >> All right. Yes. Um so, I want to take that line to reduce that by 50%. Uh Mr. Cog, can you do the math? 16,900
like Councilman >> Koviaak had on his list. >> 16,900. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Yes. Let's go with that. >> I'd like to make that motion. >> Wait a second. Maybe we should go back to >> We're back to his original. >> Go back to his original proposal. >> Yeah. Let's go with his original
proposal. >> Well, no. No, hold on. Let me say why I don't want to. It's because we're taking a tremendous amount away from As councilwoman said, MTL and PAL and
their expenses and and what they've already spent out to the public has already been maybe spent. They've already set their fees based on what they thought they were going to get and now we're >> already paid out. >> So, I think we should not mess with
>> Let's just do I'm I'm happy to the Oscar 16 motion, though. I would like to know if Councilman Koviaak is going to make the motion for his plan here. >> Well, we already have a motion on the floor, so I need to know if there's a second. >> Second.
>> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. C Can I make a recommendation, please? C can Did C can we get a a full accounting from the from the OPAC board? Councilman, >> we have to be able to make the decision financially based on where we need this
budget to go. >> Okay. All right. Cut their money. Go ahead. >> Hold on. Councilman Graovia. >> If I could, could we just recognize and give somebody the floor and not allow other people to talk over them, please? It's very hard with the especially with the air conditioning going, hearing what
people are saying. And I I think that's really important, not just for us, but for everyone at listening in. Councilwoman >> Castelino. >> Castelino has the floor. >> Yeah. So, thank you, Councilman. So, yeah. So, you know, listen, I I we don't
I I really Councilman, are you okay? This is your committee. You were definitely okay with the 16,000. >> You had discussions with your board. You're okay with what they're going to do for the for the fall season that they're >> they're they're going to be okay. That's
all. I just >> Excuse me. Hold on. Councilwoman Castelino has the floor and then Councilman Koviaak is going to go next. >> Be more respectful and quiet when someone's speaking. Thank you. >> And and I'm sorry I'm not there. I'm
sorry my voice is is cracking and I'm I've been sick. But >> you know folks, we I I know money's tight. We're trying to do the right thing with everything. We're trying to cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut cut and I've been very supportive with a lot of these cuts but again the I
I don't want to you know the school district went ahead and totally changed the face of our school district. I don't want us to be in in that same situation with dismantling these programs. So, if you're on the board and you say they're
okay with 16,000 for for the rest of their season this year, then then I'll take your advice. You're you're our council liaison. If that's your recommendation for that line item, then I'll be good with it.
So, I'm going back to I'm gonna So, so I I I yield the floor. >> So, the OspC board >> I'm sorry, not yield, but sorry. >> The Bospach board meets uh quarterly and since the last meeting
uh that is when I received the budget and uh just recently came up with this. I have not had any conversations with the board or uh with the head of Pleasant Valley Productions uh that holds the the lease and the operating
lease. And uh it just goes to the to the point that I tried to make is that at at the beginning of the meeting, not at the beginning of the meeting, but close to the beginning of the meeting is we are facing this huge tax increase and we
have to prioritize and we have to make difficult decisions. And all of these all of these councilwoman uh Castelino pointed out I participated for many years and my son did too. I participated as a as a a coach in multiple leagues
for mo multiple years and it this all hurts me. I love Ospac that hurts me too. But in my viewpoint, we need to focus on reducing the tax increase. So I I don't
know what's going on with Ospac whether they like it or not. It's just that's what needs to be done. >> Okay, Councilwoman Williams. >> Thank you. And you know, this is interesting how we will justify cutting some programs and not justify cutting
others. We eliminated funding completely from the West Orange Council of Arts. So for us to scale back again, there was a $100,000 gift received for OSPAC from one of our business owners. We have to
be mindful that if there is an opportunity for us to create a reduction to the taxpayer irregardless, they're not even open. So the fact that we're belaboring this is I I don't even understand it. They have money. They're
not functioning and we can reduce this. So it it doesn't even it it's not logical for me to even try and say we don't know what they're doing. We do know what they're doing. We know that they have received a substantial
gift from the community. Therefore, that allows us this year in particular to reduce our uh our liability and contribution. Some things I I mean we're belaboring little things, but when we can cut
thousands of dollars, we need to >> councilwoman. So that's why that's why I recommended reducing that that budget entirely and then from the grant I'm sorry from the gift spend 17,000 take it
you you wanted to spread it out over five years that's very little spend and that's from that's from the gift and it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything. That was my reason to bring it down to zero for this year and start using the
programming gift money. >> Williams, you're finished. >> You want to go back to that? >> We did. We have the motion on the floor and we certainly and that's to reduce it by half. I got I agreed to remove the
entire line item, but we didn't have the support for that. So that's why I didn't vote for it because we do need to be able to count to three. But if we can make this adjustment here, if we have consensus that we're willing to remove it, I'm fine with that. But I don't
think we have the three votes needed. >> Councilwoman Castelino, >> I just want to confirm, Mr. Diniac, wasn't that gift money being applied to this to the shortage that we had with the um with the uh the work up there?
Isn't Isn't that where the 100,000 I understand,000 >> that was that was discussed in in council meetings when we did the ordinance to um to come up with the rest of the money for the construction project. that that idea was debated at
the deis but no it it's it's not being used to uh um to offset the the construction cost. It's purely for programming. >> Okay. So we so that's where my confusion is. I thought that 100 was going that we
had to take that to finish the project for them. No, we did a bond ordinance um to cover the uh the the rest of the cost due to the fact that the the bids came in as as high as they did. >> Councilwoman Ruden >> um >> Okay, then I'll be okay.
>> Okay. So, I'm going to make the motion again. >> My apologies. I thought I thought that 100 >> was going to us. >> That was your motion. Do you want to resend >> your motion? I I will resend my Who said
that motion? >> I did. >> I resend my second. >> Yeah. Okay. So, you're both rescending. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And now I'm making a motion to to reduce OPAC by its entire amount. >> Okay. >> I know. So, but now we have a third we
got it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Councilwoman Castelino. >> Well, before I say yes, Mr. the Tiniac. So, how are they getting paid the the H 100,000 and when will they get the 100,000? >> So, we were we were going to use it over
the course of, you know, my idea was 5 years, 20K a year for programming so that, you know, we weren't going to all use it in one year and then the next year's programming suffers. So, it was just to
evenly dole it out um for support for the ASPAC. So again in my head and I think what I discussed with the administration was 20k a year >> and and what fund are you paying that from and and is it being reflected in the budget?
>> No, it's it's not a budgeted fund. It's a trust. It's a donation trust. >> Okay. So come out of trust. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm I'm fine then. >> And the money is purely for opac um programming is is
>> councilman. Well, we're taking the vote. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, my apologies, but I want to make sure before I vote it. >> I just want to say I I'm I'm hearing now was actually 10K for 10 years. Okay. >> Was the original 10
reason. >> Okay. >> But that's that's arbitrary. >> Okay. We're in the middle of the vote though. Councilman Kovia. >> No. Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes. >> Council President Scorpa,
>> yes. Okay, the motion carries. >> Are we done with this page? >> Um, >> there are several other items on the page that have not been voted on. >> Right. >> Go back. >> So, um, your recommendation didn't get a
second, which was to reduce everything by 35. I would say that >> but we've already made one adjustment to reduce it by 50%. >> So, Council Member Kovak, are you going to make the motion to reduce across the board? Because I would go for that.
>> We can't do that now because it's we've had uh intervening >> uh motions that have passed. So, I guess we just go line by line. Uh >> unfortunately that's what I would recommend regardless because you might have three votes on one item or three votes on another but not have
the requisite votes for the entire package. >> Right. So on line item 200 MTL I'm suggesting we uh reduce the budgeted amount of $9,500 to 636,337 uh a 33% reduction.
So moved. Councilwoman Castleina already spoke about that, >> but there's no second. >> Correct. Well, there was not a motion. It was a recommendation. >> No, he just made it. >> He said so. >> Oh, sorry. Okay. I
>> So, 2002 PL. I'm suggesting that we take the proposed budget amount of $12,000 and reduce it by a third to $8,04. Uh so moved. Sir, second >> line item 20ou 205 Luna stage. I'm
suggesting we I'm making a motion to reduce the proposed $8,000 budget by 50% to $4,000. >> Second. I'll second that, too. >> You just got a $300,000 grant. All right.
Is there any further discussion? Councilwoman Castelino, >> based on the grant information, uh, yes. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Williams, >> yes.
>> Council President, the motion carries. >> Line item 225, West Orange Elite Basketball. I'm suggesting that we uh I'm moving that we take the proposed 2026 budget allocation of $9,500 and reducing
it by a third to $6,337. >> Second. >> Okay. Hold on. Is there any discussion? >> I um I just wanted to say that the elite basketball program even though and Mr.
Johnson, please, if you can interject. I know that might be a new program, but that is a highly um participated in program. Um I would not recommend that we diminish that. Again, that's on the
same lines of MTM, MTL, and PAL. These programs really need the support and the funding. Um, some of this funding that we contribute offsets uh the expenses that the parents have to pay. And what we want to make sure is that we provide
access to all of our residents. And so again, this is a very highly participated in program. Um, sometimes the parents who are participating in this program do not have the capacity to pay all the fees that are necessary for
this program to continue. So, I would not suggest cutting the elite basketball program. >> Kakoviaak, did you have something to say? >> No, I've said it all before. Thank you. >> I have a question. Hold on. >> Is this I mean, we we have been paying
every year for for Mountaintop, for PAL, etc. Now we're adding on Little League. Is this considered seed money or is this going to be a permanent? little league would be seed money similar to if you look at the old budget you had the hockey pilot programs of
that >> baseball in West Orange was very complicated and if you were a new res you had no clue who had baseball whatever so we have >> taken representatives from the recreation department mountaintop and pal to create it says west ar league but it's west baseball and it's all under
one umbrella now so we have one organization that's conducting baseball which is that and the purpose there was just a little startup money to upgrade equipment and so on and so forth So this is a one time act. We will not see this on >> will not see that again. >> Councilwoman Castelina.
>> So So just to so what and I have to thank Mr. Johnson because he so baseball in this town was divided up between the pal and the mountaintop and and uh he put it back under the wreck
umbrella because we weren't competitive. We weren't pulling enough kids. the kids were split up in different programs. So, this has been a monumental task um to get the pal the mountaintop to work together to to you know do a strong
program with the wreck. So, we needed some startup money and you know so again and they're already they're I think they're they're you know they're already in play for the summer. So, I think the he hasn't paid it out yet, but he's, you
know, it's already configured in the um in the fees. Same thing with the elite basketball club. They play over the summer. So, the the parents already signed up and wrote their checks. So, again, you know, these these numbers are based on, you know, the those fees were
based on these numbers that they get every year. Also just want to note these these fees haven't changed year after year uh for the sports programs. They're just supplementing because not everything I if if the wreck had to
perform all of these sports, it would be much more expensive in our budget. You know, the PAL the PAL runs their own facility. They use a lot of our fields, but they have their own field. the the mountaintop has multiple programs, too.
So, again, I I hear everybody. I I know we have issues with the budget. I'm not going to belabor it. I I wouldn't recommend touching either one of these categories. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. I'm done. >> Councilwoman Castelino,
>> no. >> Councilman Koviaak, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden, >> no. Councilwoman Williams, >> no. >> Council President Scarpa, >> no. >> Okay, motion fails. >> That's this whole page. >> No.
>> Classic home, we have a little >> festival. I thought we reduced that to 2500 already. >> No, we have not voted on that. >> I have a question. Mr. Diniac, it says here, so the West Orange Elite Basketball Club and the West Orange Classic Film Festival both have the
number 225 in front of them. Is that supposed to be a 235 for the classic? >> Supposed to be 2:35. Yes. I'm sorry. >> That's right. >> Okay. >> Somebody's not. >> So, the film festival, the film festival line item is supposed to be 235.
>> Yes. >> Okay. So, >> line item 235, West Orange Classic Film Festival. I'm s making a motion to reduce the proposed $5,000 budget allocation by 50% to $2,500. second
>> question. I I >> now we can >> I just wanted to um inquire again um being on the board and the liaison uh I do understand that the person who has um
run the film festival did retire but we have not stated at the arts council that it would continue or would not continue um for programming. And so this is the 2026 budget and we've already had the classic
film festival and we've already written them a check for 5,000. So because this has already happened, I'm going to recommend that maybe we not touch the 2026 budget. >> We did not the check did not come out of here out of this. This line item is new
uh has not been in the budget previously for the film festival. The film festival has come out of the budget elsewhere. This was one of the things that I learned on the job about because this was an agreement made by my predecessor where the recreation department to keep the film festival alive absorbed the
cost of the film licensing. So um at some point I think it was this year uh we paid approximately $3,000 for that and my predecessor tried to get this line in here for years. It just never made it. So now we're just trying to make it officially kind of like we've talked about multiple times tonight.
this money is coming out of here for this and that's why this line item is there and it's that number was about $3,000 this year. I don't know if it's a static amount that they charge for these licenses but it's closer in line to what council and Croc is proposing. >> Absolutely. Oh, are you finished?
>> So, we could reduce it to the 2500 or do we need to leave it at the 3,000 which is what you've already spent on this? >> It was $3,000 was the amount this year. Roughly $3,000 that was this year. And Castelino is next. Councilwoman.
>> So, so being that the commitment was made, I had asked early this year that we do this where if the wreck is going to fund that festival that the, you know, the people that go see the movie,
it get paid through the wreck to to bring it back in. So, just it just be cleaner accounting. Um, so again, if they paid 3,000, then it should reflect what what got paid and I'm okay with
that reducing it. So I just want to make sure 3,000, you know, was the proper amount um for it. But in the future, if you're going to cut it, I think the accounting should be clean. You should also collect the funding so it's really a a wash.
>> Yeah. Um, how where was it funded from? How was it funded from? >> Probably came out of programs or summer series, one of those line items. >> Yes, council woman. >> Um the the real expense is $3,000. This
is money that goes to the West Orange Arts Council and >> SS Green is the the person that gets paid for vendor. >> Isn't this done by the West Orange Arts? Yes. Okay. So, that's great. We're supporting the arts council by
supporting this. And um Councilman Koviaak has generously offered $1,000, but now he can only he only can offer $500. >> No, I am not. I'm giving the full $1,000. >> Oh, okay. So then if he's giving the
full,000, >> it's great. It's a gift >> a tax deductible. >> So that's amazing. And thank you. Thank you for stepping up for for this event. I think it's a it's it's we can reduce
this to $2,000. >> That's that's not the um the motion is to reduce it to >> 2500. We have a >> So, so I'd like to make an amendment given that that we have new information and that and that Councilman Kovia is is
being exceedingly generous with this. Um that I'd like to make a revision that it go to 2,000. >> I'll second that. >> So, we're going to be removing 3,000 from this from this budget and and and the revenue will be going to to the arts
council. Okay, >> we would use that line item to pay for the film for pay for the licensing fees whether it goes directly to the arts council or they have us pay the vendor. That's >> however it's done. >> But previously it's been paid directly to the vendor AMC for the licensing.
>> Okay. >> And and just just to be clear, licensing is for the use of the films. >> That is correct. Yes. >> The rental of the films and then >> there's a separate rental >> is charging for the use of the theater. >> Correct. That is correct. Yes. When I say licensing, yes. As stated is for the
presentation of the film and there's also a charge to rent the theater. A >> separate charge. >> Separate charge for rent the theater. Yes. >> How much is that? >> Almost $1,000. >> Why don't we just leave the 3,000? >> That's what we're doing.
>> No. >> No. No. We're rem 2,000. So 2,000. 2,000 plus a,000. We have 3,000. We we hit we hit our our target >> for 2026. Yes. >> Yes. There was uh the motion was made and I second. So maybe we should any
more discussion or should we talk about it? >> Councilman C. Uh Councilwoman >> if I could could I just ask what the motion is about? I'm >> Yes. I can't. So, the first motion was to reduce it to 2500 and then
Councilwoman Ruden made a motion to uh that motion to reduce it to 2,000. >> So, we vote on the amendment to change the number to 2,00 on the other motion as amended. Right.
>> So, is the is it the reduction of $2,000 or is the amount to give $2,000? >> $2,000. Yeah. Uh, okay. Are we ready to vote? >> Yeah. >> I just have one more question. So, so if
it was 3,000 for the licensing and they had to rent do rentals, why don't we just leave the the 5,000? Like how much was the whole thing? Had it be like 67,000? >> No, we have a motion on the floor. >> Yeah.
>> So, there there is revenue to brought in. The way we got to this $3,000 number is they presented their financial report and the $3,000 was the licensing fee which was we agreed to pay and that's all they needed. They bring revenue in through uh the sale of the tickets. They
sell t-shirts and that covers the rental the auditorium. So >> the numbers we're talking about here is is all that's left for the film festival to break even and continue to be offered. >> Okay.
Councilwoman Castelino on the amendment. >> Yes. >> Council uh Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams. >> Council Presidents. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now we have to do a vote on the motion carry. Sorry. And then we have to
do the vote on the original motion as amended. >> Yes. >> Oh >> Um Okay. So, Councilwoman Castelino. Yes. >> Councilman Koviaak. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Ruden. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Williams.
>> Yes. >> Council President. >> Yes. The motion carries. >> As amended. >> So, it looks like we're done. >> Thank you so much. >> We have to consent >> for all you do. >> Are we Do we have to consent this page? >> Yes. We're going to consent this page.
>> Consent. >> Consent. >> All right. >> Minute recess. Do it. >> Five minute recess. Yes. The pizza is here. We'll take a five minute break. Thank you, >> John. >> Council President, >> it's 20 after 9. If you're going to take
a break, we're only supposed to go to 10. I can carry over >> to take five minutes. >> We can carry over these two. >> That's right. >> Let's just take the five minute, come back and finish. I >> I'm sorry. Can we have him finish his statement? It may make sense. >> So, we can carry this over to the meeting, which I can ask you for now. Is
it does does the 30th work for the seventh meeting? I can carry this to the 30th. We should be able to wrap things up in seven meetings. I'm anticipating it hopefully. Are these next two presentations will probably or three will probably not take us very long. But
>> I would just suggest only because if we start into this now and you want to take a break, it's just know maybe just beneficial for everybody. That's all >> my colleague >> and we and we haven't we haven't been this is twice this week. We're coming back early next week. We we moved the council meeting. So, I mean, just I'm
just suggesting that for >> I I can I can I can go home early. I can have some I'm fine with that. >> What time? What date? >> I know. But >> no, June 30th. I sent an email to everybody if if would June 30th be available for the seventh meeting. We
have the 16th down for the sixth meeting and I asked if we could do the 30th for the seventh meeting. That's >> But we kind of breeze through these. We're starting to get the swing of things now. So we might really not even need a seventh meeting. >> Well, I'm just we we advertised we
advertised that we can amend that one. >> I thought it was >> Mr. Deniac said he needs an additional meeting. >> We're going to have a meeting on revenue. That's going to be >> I'm suggesting we if we can set up the schedule >> 29th or the 30th 29th the 30th.
>> 29th or 30th. Great. >> Councilman Kovak. >> 29th or >> 29th or 30th? One of the two. Yes. You were suggesting the 30th because it's beginning of summer and people go away on weekends and stuff. >> All right. Council, go ahead. >> The 30th.
>> Councilman Kakovak, you had a question. >> I was going to make a motion to adjurnn and see if we have three votes to adjurnn. Uh, well, it's not debatable. So, a motion to adjurnn is debatable, but um
I seconded it. So, let's go. Ma'am, >> we're gonna eat. It's not gonna eat. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I Any opposed? All right. Thank you. No. Huh?